# Healing the Gut Tribe - November!



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I just thought I'd get a new thread started...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

subbing...


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## sarasprings (Mar 30, 2003)

Hi. I thought I'd post a little info. I've been learning so much from all of you! DS1, DS2, and I all have gut issues, I believe. I think that I had get yearly yeast infections in the spring. All 3 of us are on probiotics -- megaflora for me, rhino chewables for DS1 (4 1/2 yo), and solaray babylife for ds2 (8mo). The boys went to a kinesiologist for food allergies and we have a list, although I think there is still something that is bothering DS1, so I'm going to try an elimination diet to check that out. His diet is healthy, but not so varied that it should be relatively easy, I hope. I'm also going to start reading Enzymes for Autism this weekend. I have a feeling I should have started enzymes before probiotics, but this is where we are. I'm also about to start CLO. Can anyone recommend a brand for my sons?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarasprings* 
Hi. I thought I'd post a little info. I've been learning so much from all of you! DS1, DS2, and I all have gut issues, I believe. I think that I had get yearly yeast infections in the spring. All 3 of us are on probiotics -- megaflora for me, rhino chewables for DS1 (4 1/2 yo), and solaray babylife for ds2 (8mo). The boys went to a kinesiologist for food allergies and we have a list, although I think there is still something that is bothering DS1, so I'm going to try an elimination diet to check that out. His diet is healthy, but not so varied that it should be relatively easy, I hope. I'm also going to start reading Enzymes for Autism this weekend. I have a feeling I should have started enzymes before probiotics, but this is where we are. I'm also about to start CLO. Can anyone recommend a brand for my sons?

We started w/kinesiology too. The chiro/homeopath did this for us and started us on our first enzymes right before I started posting on this tribe. Matter of fact, I posted in H&H about the type of enzyme he gave us and that's what led us here.







:

At first, I thought the kinesiology was working. When it didn't detect dd's wheat allergy, I moved on to different things.

I wouldn't worry too much about starting probiotics *before* enzymes. They're both beneficial.

Re: the CLO. My dds take Nordic Naturals orange flavored without any problems.


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## sarasprings (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm not sure how accurate our kinesiologist is, but I feel good that we have somewhere to start. I really do, though, want to reintroduce the foods (I'll probably wait until late spring/early summer) besides wheat and dairy and see what happens.

I saw Nordic Naturals at our health food store. I'll grab some next time I'm there. Thanks so much for the rec.


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## sntm (Jan 1, 2004)

I'm subbing, and a new member of this tribe.

I'm an inconsistent eater -- half the time, very healthy, the other half of the time, I eat the Walmart sheet cakes brought in by the OR nurses. Regardless, I've developed a terrible gas problem lately, and had to search (embarrassed!) for threads on gas and farting.









So, lay it all on me. What should I be doing? Other than monitoring my diet more carefully (need to lose 6 pounds anyway, so plan to start that.)

ETA: Has anyone read "The Road to Wellville"? If so, does this not seem even more embarrassing?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

subbing


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Shannon, I would look into why you're craving those sheet cakes, as in you probably are deficient in minerals such as chromium and vanadium. As far as gas, you aren't digesting your food properly, and it's fermenting in your gut. All kinds of things will do this, including beans, grains, certain veggies, and sugars. You could start with an enzyme. See the healing the gut cheat sheet for more info about them.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

subbing


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I am having a horrible day today. I am frustrated and angry. I feel like I am going in circles with this diet and getting no where. I am sick of the 10 foods I can eat. How can I introduce anything new when the eczema is bad? Will the eczema ever be under control? I feel that I am just creating new allergies by eating the same foods over and over. I have thought it might be 'under control' several times. Ds's eczema on his cheeks is the bad, the worst it has ever been. It is itchy, red and inflammed. Every time he scratches I think to myself what it could have been, a food, lotion, did I let it get too dry? I feel a huge amount of guilt, like it is all my fault that he is suffering. It is right there all over his face, blaming me, and everyone who sees him HAS to make a comment. I feel like I enjoy him less because all I can think about is the stupid eczema. I cannot even tell if I am healing. I know I cannot stay in the beginning stages of this diet too much longer. I am getting to the feel like the diet is pointless if I have not gotten anywhere yet. My thought tonight was, well his cheeks are so bad anyway, why don't I just have a piece of cake? On my diet restrictions I cannot even bake a simple almond flour muffin. A crisp salad with fresh, crunchy vegetables sounds sooo good.

I look back at photos of when the eczema first started and it was not bad at all. In fact, it has gotten steadily worse the more foods I have cut out. I wish I had started with the enzymes and probiotics. I feel like the woman in Enzymes for autism book, down to 5 acceptable foods. Really at this point, since the eczema is so bad anyway, what if I just ate regular SCD or even NT? So far my meticulous food diary is showing me that I can be obsessive.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I am having a horrible day today. I am frustrated and angry. I feel like I am going in circles with this diet and getting no where. I am sick of the 10 foods I can eat. How can I introduce anything new when the eczema is bad? Will the eczema ever be under control? I feel that I am just creating new allergies by eating the same foods over and over. I have thought it might be 'under control' several times. Ds's eczema on his cheeks is the bad, the worst it has ever been. It is itchy, red and inflammed. Every time he scratches I think to myself what it could have been, a food, lotion, did I let it get too dry? I feel a huge amount of guilt, like it is all my fault that he is suffering. It is right there all over his face, blaming me, and everyone who sees him HAS to make a comment. I feel like I enjoy him less because all I can think about is the stupid eczema. I cannot even tell if I am healing. I know I cannot stay in the beginning stages of this diet too much longer. I am getting to the feel like the diet is pointless if I have not gotten anywhere yet. My thought tonight was, well his cheeks are so bad anyway, why don't I just have a piece of cake? On my diet restrictions I cannot even bake a simple almond flour muffin. A crisp salad with fresh, crunchy vegetables sounds sooo good.


I have no advice, I just wanted to send you a great big hug







.
I SOOOO know what you mean about enjoying your child less. I found myself so consumed with my dd's eczema, yeast rashes, the food we were or weren't eating, searching things on the internet, etc. It was miserable. I'm still tryign to get out of that funk. But just know you aren't alone.

BTW, Have you had any bloodwork done to see exactly what things your ds is reacting to in your diet? (The IgG antibody test, ELISA) If you knew, you could possibly expand your diet somewhat. We're looking into this.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

I must be out of the loop, but what happened to JaneS? Is she ever coming back?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Nolansmum

I have pages upon pages of dd's food diary as well. I think they helped a little in the beginning, but now, looking back (and after months of not keeping meticulous records), I don't think they helped much. It only helped me to stress out some more about yet another thing.

This is sooooo hard to do on your own! I would also suggest perhaps going the route of allergy testing. I know people say there are downsides to that as well, but hey, my thoughts were that at least we'd have *some* guidance or a starting point.

The reading, researching, learning, experimenting, record keeping, worrying, etc. are enought to drive a person insane. (Especially when you've had little to no sleep to boot!) I've tried to back off a bit and let the Universe do its thing and try not to be so controlling over every little detail.

It will burn you out faster than anything.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I must be out of the loop, but what happened to JaneS? Is she ever coming back?

Jane was not only working on herself, & her ds, but also trying to help ALL of us too . . . no wonder she needed a break!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks for your support. DS has an allergist appt next month. This is through the military, so I don't know what kinds of tests they will have for a year old baby. I may ask to get testing done for myself too. I don't have the cash to do the independant lab testing, I am choosing to spend anything extra on CST.

I had a mixed greens salad from my neighbors garden this morning and it was deliciuos, I also had a chicken brat (SCD legal)with homemade kraut. Best meal in a long time. I don't know where my diet is headed, but I know I can't sustain myself on so few foods.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Jane was not only working on herself, & her ds, but also trying to help ALL of us too . . . no wonder she needed a break!









I'm sure! I hope she and her ds are thriving. If you're out there Jane,


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Nolansmom--







I share your frustration. The diet I'm doing is helping me but DD seems to be getting worse and worse. She now has little patches of eczema all over her arms and legs









Have you seen improvements in any areas while on the SCD? I did the SCD for about 3 months and only saw the tiniest of improvements in me and DD, so in the end I decided it was not the right diet for me. IMO, if you haven't seen significant improvements by this time, it's not going to work for you.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nolansmom--







I share your frustration. The diet I'm doing is helping me but DD seems to be getting worse and worse. She now has little patches of eczema all over her arms and legs









Have you seen improvements in any areas while on the SCD? I did the SCD for about 3 months and only saw the tiniest of improvements in me and DD, so in the end I decided it was not the right diet for me. IMO, if you haven't seen significant improvements by this time, it's not going to work for you.

I have seen significant improvements for myself, that's why I'm so frustrated about DS's eczema not getting better. Is my body just dumping tons of toxins as it is healing? Could it be more enviornmentally caused and less diet? I have been making the assumption that it was more diet caused. Are you putting anything on the patches for your DD? I broke down this morning and put some steroid cream on after I disinfected with TTO. It seems like the lotions, ointments and creams I put on just make the areas red and inflammed







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hi all, update on us...

Still will be hibernating for a while, gettin' stuff done. Had a ton of blood tests done on DS including amino acids and IgA for celiac. About to start him on Prolent, a 5HTP and amino acid supplement for his sleeping that our (raw milk drinking) dietician recommended. I've been trying it and it's *amazing*. For the most part his sleeping has been better lately b/c I cut out the fruit, starches and grains again. Not sure if he can have any nuts still. So food is pretty much a nightmare and I'm totally not following the Rotation Diet we are supposed to be doing b/c he just can't handle most of it. Not sure what we are going to do there.

Also eliminated his nap, so he goes down in 10 minutes at night!







That took a lot of stress away from our lives: the 60 minutes, or more, it took to put him down for nap and bedtime both. Things start to get dicey around 4pm but he actually asks to go upstairs at bedtime now!

My digestive issues came back with all the stress so I've been hitting the kefir really hard (drinking and eating grains too) and digestive enzymes plus taking some amino acids (thanks to Amanda







) and some 5HTP and the results have been fantastic. I'm better than ever now and even ate some Halloween candy with NO effect!! DS went trick or treating and it was so fun... he and his best friend traded in their candy for presents, it worked very very well. I just had to say several times, "We don't EAT candy, we trade it in for surprises!"







So far he hasn't asked where the candy went...









Please see recent post in Cheat Sheet of new book I finally got around to reading _*Bacteria for Breakfast*_. It's very good.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...8&postcount=22

What I took from it is that high counts of probiotics are needed, in the trillions, rendering most over the counter probiotics not helpful in serious cases (already knew that). But that for most people, many strains of bacteria will also be needed, and likely some specialized ones: like L. plantarum or beneficial yeasts like Saccharomyces boulardii. Or certain strains that are proven hardier in intestines like the super strains of L. bulgaricus, L.
acidophilus and Bifidus that Natren uses.

So from a WAPF "food as your medicine" perspective, this would indeed support why kefir is superior to yogurt because it has beneficial yeasts in addition to lactobacillus. And I'm also wondering if making some yogurt with some different super strains like the 8 that are in VSL#3 would also be beneficial. DS is currently anti-kefir lately. Even mixed with his yogurt, he can sniff it out and refuses to drink it! I even made a raw vanilla cheesecake in which I pureed kefir grains (that tastes really good to me) and it's a no go with him. ARGH.

Hope you are all on a path to wellness. It feels weird I have no idea what went on in October ... but you are all in my thoughts and I'll stop by when I can.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nolansmom--







I share your frustration. The diet I'm doing is helping me but DD seems to be getting worse and worse. She now has little patches of eczema all over her arms and legs









If it were my DS it would be fruit causing increased bacteria/yeast or a food he is very allergic to: coconut for example, causing a histamine reaction.

Are you trying high amounts of EPO?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I must be out of the loop, but what happened to JaneS? Is she ever coming back?

I got burned out facing new issues with DS (food allergy and environmental testing). We had to get rid of our cat (at Grandmas now). Have to do lots of stuff around house. Not only cleaning absolutely everything to get rid of cat dander but just discovered we probably have a mold issue, which might explain the underlying reason to all this.









Diet changes with DS have been super hard. So I've been under massive stress. DH is not being at all helpful either. I will not be back here to the extent that I used to be for a very long time. But I will try to stop by with new things I'll hopefully be finding out on this journey.







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I have seen significant improvements for myself, that's why I'm so frustrated about DS's eczema not getting better. Is my body just dumping tons of toxins as it is healing? Could it be more enviornmentally caused and less diet? I have been making the assumption that it was more diet caused. Are you putting anything on the patches for your DD? I broke down this morning and put some steroid cream on after I disinfected with TTO. It seems like the lotions, ointments and creams I put on just make the areas red and inflammed







:

I just put coconut oil and sweet almond oil on it--hers is quite red but doesn't appear to bother her at all so I try not to worry about it too terribly much (it's not working as you can probably tell!). But I am going to make a couple of my own herbal salves to put on it, so I will let you know if they help.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
If it were my DS it would be fruit causing increased bacteria/yeast or a food he is very allergic to: coconut for example, causing a histamine reaction.

Are you trying high amounts of EPO?

How young is too young for accurate allergy testing? The only foods she is getting directly are (you guessed it) coconut oil and coconut milk yogurt or kefir. So maybe she is allergic to the coconut milk...but if she is, how in the heck can I get probiotics into her? She'll eat the powder but it isn't making enough of a difference. She can't do dairy...what are the other "milk" choices? Rice...I would think that would be even worse from a digestion standpoint. And almond...I'm afraid to do that because of the allergenic potential







She doesn't get any fruit or sugar (unless there's still some in the yogurt--it never gets tart), and I very rarely have either (maybe a couple of times a month).

Anybody?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I got burned out facing new issues with DS (food allergy and environmental testing). We had to get rid of our cat (at Grandmas now). Have to do lots of stuff around house. Not only cleaning absolutely everything to get rid of cat dander but just discovered we probably have a mold issue, which might explain the underlying reason to all this.









Diet changes with DS have been super hard. So I've been under massive stress. DH is not being at all helpful either. I will not be back here to the extent that I used to be for a very long time. But I will try to stop by with new things I'll hopefully be finding out on this journey.







:

Sounds like your journey is continuing to be difficult. YOu are making huge changes. Your DS is so lucky to have such a wise and mama. We miss your thoughtful insight!

I don't mean to suck you in, but if you have time to go into more detail about getting rid of your cat. Did your DS react on a test to cat dander? I ask because we have 2 cats and have suspected all along that they could be a part of the problem. The only 2 times DS was free of the rash(once it started at 4 months old) was our vacation and when we moved to a new house that never had pets.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How young is too young for accurate allergy testing? The only foods she is getting directly are (you guessed it) coconut oil and coconut milk yogurt or kefir. So maybe she is allergic to the coconut milk...but if she is, how in the heck can I get probiotics into her? She'll eat the powder but it isn't making enough of a difference. She can't do dairy...what are the other "milk" choices? Rice...I would think that would be even worse from a digestion standpoint. And almond...I'm afraid to do that because of the allergenic potential







She doesn't get any fruit or sugar (unless there's still some in the yogurt--it never gets tart), and I very rarely have either (maybe a couple of times a month).

Anybody?

We are so similar in what we are going through. No dairy, no fruit. I eat some honey, I tried without and there was no difference. I am getting water kefir grains this weekend and will try to get some kefir into DS. I do believe we are allergic to coconut, I have cut it out completely and only have a few household cleaners left that have coconut derived ingredients (dishsoap and laundry detergent, the 2 hardest to replace things.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How young is too young for accurate allergy testing? The only foods she is getting directly are (you guessed it) coconut oil and coconut milk yogurt or kefir. So maybe she is allergic to the coconut milk...but if she is, how in the heck can I get probiotics into her? She'll eat the powder but it isn't making enough of a difference. She can't do dairy...what are the other "milk" choices? Rice...I would think that would be even worse from a digestion standpoint. And almond...I'm afraid to do that because of the allergenic potential







She doesn't get any fruit or sugar (unless there's still some in the yogurt--it never gets tart), and I very rarely have either (maybe a couple of times a month).

Anybody?

I really don't know for sure re: how young too young. I do know that the younger they are, the more likely that they will react to more just because their system is so immature. Maybe you can just give more powder, lots and lots? (gradually build up)


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How young is too young for accurate allergy testing? The only foods she is getting directly are (you guessed it) coconut oil and coconut milk yogurt or kefir. So maybe she is allergic to the coconut milk...but if she is, how in the heck can I get probiotics into her? She'll eat the powder but it isn't making enough of a difference. She can't do dairy...what are the other "milk" choices? Rice...I would think that would be even worse from a digestion standpoint. And almond...I'm afraid to do that because of the allergenic potential







She doesn't get any fruit or sugar (unless there's still some in the yogurt--it never gets tart), and I very rarely have either (maybe a couple of times a month).

Anybody?

Did you try goat's milk? It's far less allergenic...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Sounds like your journey is continuing to be difficult. YOu are making huge changes. Your DS is so lucky to have such a wise and mama. We miss your thoughtful insight!

I don't mean to suck you in, but if you have time to go into more detail about getting rid of your cat. Did your DS react on a test to cat dander? I ask because we have 2 cats and have suspected all along that they could be a part of the problem. The only 2 times DS was free of the rash(once it started at 4 months old) was our vacation and when we moved to a new house that never had pets.

Thank you









Yes, DS reacted on his intradermal allergy testing to cat and the red wheal stayed for days showing a delayed reaction as well. And dust, dust mites and certain molds. He started last winter getting a stuffy nose that came and went off and on throughout the year.

My biggest fear is *The Allergy March*. Google this term, its very interesting. Kids start with eczema. Get food allergies around 2. Then the asthma shows up. I want to do everything humanly possible to avoid asthma with DS b/c I think if he progresses to that, it will be bad and be for life given the other issues his immune system is fighting.

If I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now, I would have given the cat away much sooner, like as soon as the eczema showed up. I wanted to but DH did not and I didn't press it. He grew up with animals and I did not, however the cats were mine. It would have been very hard for me so I was easily convinced. DH sent me all sorts of stuff saying that people with pets had fewer allergies and I know that's true, EXCEPT: only if the person has a healthy normally functioning immune system. Our DS does not.

I now think that in the presence of an immune system that is obviously fighting off "invaders" and losing, the less stresses put upon it might be for the better. But that might be my overwhelmed perspective now talking.

I tend not to believe the Hygiene Hypothesis. I don't think it's because we are cleaner that our immune system cannot properly develop oral and environmental tolerance, it's because of the chemicals and antibiotics and nutrient deficient food with diseased gut flora at the root of it all.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Janelovesmax* 
Did you try goat's milk? It's far less allergenic...

Yes, she definitely reacted to that--actually she's gone right downhill since I tried goat milk yogurt--it totally messed up her sleep and her eczema's never really gone away since. I've never given it to her directly but I don't see why she would handle it any better directly.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

My biggest fear is *The Allergy March*. Google this term, its very interesting. Kids start with eczema. Get food allergies around 2. Then the asthma shows up. I want to do everything humanly possible to avoid asthma with DS b/c I think if he progresses to that, it will be bad and be for life given the other issues his immune system is fighting.

This is what I am afraid of, too, although I'd never heard the term before.

I hope that you are able to continue to make progress with your DS, and I am glad you are finally seeing some improvement in him.

Nolansmom--I just don't know what to do from an environmental standpoint. I am afraid to even find out if it is coconut--I can't live without coconut oil right now, especially since I can't do butter or dairy fats. DD has always worn natural fabrics almost exclusively, along with cotton and wool cloth diapers. I've always used Bi-o-kleen on her clothes and mine w/no fabric softener. I did try natural dish detergents for a long time but they just didn't clean the dishes so I went back to Palmolive...I really can't imagine that would make much of a difference, anyway. DD only gets a bath about every 10 days as she hates the water. There is chlorine in the water but I've never noticed that it makes any difference. We don't have any pets and the house we're renting is brand new. I don't think anything is related to the house, anyway, as nothing improves when we are gone for up to two weeks at a time.

I'm going to start another batch of coconut milk kefir tonight...hopefully DD will take it and we'll see what happens. I really wanted to do coconut milk kefir instead of kefir sodas just because of the sugar in them--I don't want to feed her yeasties, and I doubt she'll drink them if they get too sour. Maybe I'll try a strawberry kefir soda and see what happens with that if she won't drink the coconut kefir or I eliminate coconut milk.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

Nolansmom--I just don't know what to do from an environmental standpoint. I am afraid to even find out if it is coconut--I can't live without coconut oil right now, especially since I can't do butter or dairy fats. DD has always worn natural fabrics almost exclusively, along with cotton and wool cloth diapers. I've always used Bi-o-kleen on her clothes and mine w/no fabric softener. I did try natural dish detergents for a long time but they just didn't clean the dishes so I went back to Palmolive...I really can't imagine that would make much of a difference, anyway. DD only gets a bath about every 10 days as she hates the water. There is chlorine in the water but I've never noticed that it makes any difference. We don't have any pets and the house we're renting is brand new. I don't think anything is related to the house, anyway, as nothing improves when we are gone for up to two weeks at a time.
I hear you about the fats, I use olive oil, walnut and flax oils, as well as taking EPO. I am afraid I don't get enough omega 3's because I also do not eat eggs, although at this point I have no idea if DS is intolerant to them. And with his cheeks so bad if I tried eggs I cannot tell what the reaction is to. It sure would be nice to bake a muffin and have an easy snack to take out. It is so hard to tell what is actually making a difference. Am I spending all this time and money and just making myself crazy?

I have some homeopathic remedies for pet dander and hayfever. I may try taking one of them, or giving it to DS. They happen to be in alcohol, thank goodness not a lactose pellet. Maybe it will work to lessen his histamine response


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

caedmyn and nolansmom, are you doing EPO? i'm talking about LOTS of EPO. i was just reading today that GLA (gamma linolenic acid) gets depleted quickly when inflammation occurs. having spent the last few month tweaking my oils, i just did a recalculation of the amount of EPO and borage oil i had been taking before ds's eczema started creeping back.

through the summer, i would take 2 KAL UltraOmega 3 6 9 capsules in the morning and 2 at night (400 mg of each of fish oil, flax oil and borage oil in each capsule) - there's no way i could remember to pop pills at lunch at work. on top of that, i was taking 2600 mg of EPO in the morning and another 2600 mg of EPO at night. i'm thinking i might go back to this type of combination and i'm going to drop gluten-loaded grains for a while (i thought i could handle them but i'm thinking not). most recommendations i've seen for EPO are in the 2 to 4 g, not 5+ g. (ND didn't think i needed so much GLA but i'm guessing i do still)

was just reading about gliadin and zonulin. i have a few papers to read more carefully so i'll report back once i've done that - but the short version is that it looks like gliadin and zonulin interact to cause a leaky gut scenario. (gliadin is one component of gluten; zonulin is a cellular protein in our gut lining i think) i stumbled onto this by joining the GFCFNN yahoo group.

another thing... dh gets these itchy patches - they're almost microscopic but they might be eczema. it cleared up nearly instantly when he smeared hemp seed oil on them. it turns out that hemp seed oil has almost as much GLA as EPO but has a generally more balanced oil profile than either EPO or flax seed oil. since he's taking it orally, i'm toying with the idea of replacing the KAL UltraOmega with the CLO i'm now taking and some hemp seed oil, and then supplementing with EPO on top of that.

borage oil has more GLA than EPO but it also contains some slightly toxic components so it isn't recommended that one take it in high doses.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn and nolansmom, are you doing EPO? i'm talking about LOTS of EPO. i was just reading today that GLA (gamma linolenic acid) gets depleted quickly when inflammation occurs. having spent the last few month tweaking my oils, i just did a recalculation of the amount of EPO and borage oil i had been taking before ds's eczema started creeping back.

through the summer, i would take 2 KAL UltraOmega 3 6 9 capsules in the morning and 2 at night (400 mg of each of fish oil, flax oil and borage oil in each capsule) - there's no way i could remember to pop pills at lunch at work. on top of that, i was taking 2600 mg of EPO in the morning and another 2600 mg of EPO at night. i'm thinking i might go back to this type of combination and i'm going to drop gluten-loaded grains for a while (i thought i could handle them but i'm thinking not). most recommendations i've seen for EPO are in the 2 to 4 g, not 5+ g. (ND didn't think i needed so much GLA but i'm guessing i do still)

was just reading about gliadin and zonulin. i have a few papers to read more carefully so i'll report back once i've done that - but the short version is that it looks like gliadin and zonulin interact to cause a leaky gut scenario. (gliadin is one component of gluten; zonulin is a cellular protein in our gut lining i think) i stumbled onto this by joining the GFCFNN yahoo group.

another thing... dh gets these itchy patches - they're almost microscopic but they might be eczema. it cleared up nearly instantly when he smeared hemp seed oil on them. it turns out that hemp seed oil has almost as much GLA as EPO but has a generally more balanced oil profile than either EPO or flax seed oil. since he's taking it orally, i'm toying with the idea of replacing the KAL UltraOmega with the CLO i'm now taking and some hemp seed oil, and then supplementing with EPO on top of that.

borage oil has more GLA than EPO but it also contains some slightly toxic components so it isn't recommended that one take it in high doses.

I've been taking 3000 mg of EPO but maybe that isn't enough. I guess I'll look into that UltraOmega, although I would think between the CLO oil I take and the grass-finished meat I eat, along with high omega 3 eggs, that part of it would be okay. Maybe I should get some hemp seed oil and try applying that directly to DD's eczema.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

nolansmom. Happy to see a post from you JaneS, although I am sorry things having been going so well with your ds. Hope they get better. Oh, and as far as pets preventing allergies, some studies have shown that it's just people with dogs, and in fact those with cats have a higher allergy rate!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn and nolansmom, are you doing EPO? i'm talking about LOTS of EPO. i was just reading today that GLA (gamma linolenic acid) gets depleted quickly when inflammation occurs. having spent the last few month tweaking my oils, i just did a recalculation of the amount of EPO and borage oil i had been taking before ds's eczema started creeping back.

through the summer, i would take 2 KAL UltraOmega 3 6 9 capsules in the morning and 2 at night (400 mg of each of fish oil, flax oil and borage oil in each capsule) - there's no way i could remember to pop pills at lunch at work. on top of that, i was taking 2600 mg of EPO in the morning and another 2600 mg of EPO at night. i'm thinking i might go back to this type of combination and i'm going to drop gluten-loaded grains for a while (i thought i could handle them but i'm thinking not). most recommendations i've seen for EPO are in the 2 to 4 g, not 5+ g. (ND didn't think i needed so much GLA but i'm guessing i do still)

was just reading about gliadin and zonulin. i have a few papers to read more carefully so i'll report back once i've done that - but the short version is that it looks like gliadin and zonulin interact to cause a leaky gut scenario. (gliadin is one component of gluten; zonulin is a cellular protein in our gut lining i think) i stumbled onto this by joining the GFCFNN yahoo group.

another thing... dh gets these itchy patches - they're almost microscopic but they might be eczema. it cleared up nearly instantly when he smeared hemp seed oil on them. it turns out that hemp seed oil has almost as much GLA as EPO but has a generally more balanced oil profile than either EPO or flax seed oil. since he's taking it orally, i'm toying with the idea of replacing the KAL UltraOmega with the CLO i'm now taking and some hemp seed oil, and then supplementing with EPO on top of that.

borage oil has more GLA than EPO but it also contains some slightly toxic components so it isn't recommended that one take it in high doses.

I have been taking black currant seed oil, 1500 mg a day which delivers 270 mg of GLA, or twice as much as EPO. Maybe I'll try upping that amount. So if inflammation uses up GLA, what does that mean for trying to balance out omega 3, 6 and 9? I will look at the hemp seed oil.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Haven't read anything but I wanted to post this update.

Took dd to the acupuncturist today. LOVE HER! She thinks that the naturopath is right about what is wrong with dd (Staph) and that I am right that she isn't responding to what he has recomended she take. She thinks that her immune system is just so shot that it needs help to recover. She also does NAET and tested dd for like 20 things today. Thankfully we did get some answers to things to watch out for and got cleared on some other things. The best part though is that she lives a couple of blocks away from me and offered to treat dd at her house for cheaper than treating her at the place I went today. I am so grateful! Not sure when we will get started on that (today was just testing, no treatment) but she did teach me some massage/acupressure stuff to do for her immune system.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I've been taking 3000 mg of EPO but maybe that isn't enough. I guess I'll look into that UltraOmega, although I would think between the CLO oil I take and the grass-finished meat I eat, along with high omega 3 eggs, that part of it would be okay. Maybe I should get some hemp seed oil and try applying that directly to DD's eczema.

if you're doing CLO, don't waste your time with the KAL product. Try increasing EPO or adding Borage oil/black currant seed oil/hemp seed oil.

GLA is not one of the Omega PUFAs (i.e., not omega-3 or omega-6 etc) but it is in the fatty acid synthesis pathway. mdheal.org has a nice article about this in relation to allergy and atopy, along with a drawing showing where GLA shows up in the picture.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I have been taking black currant seed oil, 1500 mg a day which delivers 270 mg of GLA, or twice as much as EPO. Maybe I'll try upping that amount. So if inflammation uses up GLA, what does that mean for trying to balance out omega 3, 6 and 9? I will look at the hemp seed oil.

i still haven't quite figured out the entire fatty acid pathway. i probably just need to bite the bullet and get my hands on a really good nutrition textbook - one with lots of charts and pathway diagrams to which my brain responds well. GLA is different from the omega EFAs. btw, i learned that omega-9 is not an EFA because your body builds it from existing building blocks (but you gotta make sure that those blocks are there).

you can use hemp seed oil on veggies but cool the veggies first if you've cooked them else the heat will trash the fats. it's got a slightly nutty flavor. an alternative source is just plain ol' hemp seeds. no idea if those need to be soaked or whatnot before using.

in my readings i learned that "they" are trying to genetically modify mainstream oil plants to increase their GLA content - transferring the GLA-producing genes from evening primrose or borage into safflower, sunflower, canola, etc.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How young is too young for accurate allergy testing? The only foods she is getting directly are (you guessed it) coconut oil and coconut milk yogurt or kefir. So maybe she is allergic to the coconut milk...but if she is, how in the heck can I get probiotics into her? She'll eat the powder but it isn't making enough of a difference. She can't do dairy...what are the other "milk" choices? Rice...I would think that would be even worse from a digestion standpoint. And almond...I'm afraid to do that because of the allergenic potential







She doesn't get any fruit or sugar (unless there's still some in the yogurt--it never gets tart), and I very rarely have either (maybe a couple of times a month).

Anybody?

are there any fermented veggies that might work - ones that might be digestible and fermentable, that is. ginger carrots without the ginger?

i wouldn't subject her to allergy testing yet unless you're prepared to be gutsy with the docs and insist on a blood draw. our allergy doc seems to be on speed or something - sees like 6 patients at a time and is exceptionally pushy. before we knew it, ds (13 months old then) was getting pricked and everything turned out to be negative. i'd look to see if enterolabs or genova diagnostics has something for IgG tesing.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Thank you Bluets for the info. I have read about omega balance but I do not understand about GLA, ALA ...

DS is about 8 days out from the start of his stomach bug and is still recovering. His poop is all (that I can see) is abnormal. It is mushy like mashed potatoes, but not mucousy. Saffron yellow in color and smells like vinegar. He had been mostly nursing for about a few days but has been eating more and more solids each day. The smell does not seem normal, and I am surprized about the yellow color. Anyone have any ideas?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Thank you Bluets for the info. I have read about omega balance but I do not understand about GLA, ALA ...

DS is about 8 days out from the start of his stomach bug and is still recovering. His poop is all (that I can see) is abnormal. It is mushy like mashed potatoes, but not mucousy. Saffron yellow in color and smells like vinegar. He had been mostly nursing for about a few days but has been eating more and more solids each day. The smell does not seem normal, and I am surprized about the yellow color. Anyone have any ideas?

from enzymestuff.com (http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm)

Stool starts out green , then turns bright yellow as it goes through the digestive tract. It is bile and bacteria that finally turn it brown. Yellow or green stools can indicate stool is passing through the digestive tract too rapidly not giving it a chance to change colour. Bright yellow stools can also indicate not enough bile / bilary obstruction.

if you go to www.abchomeopathy.com and use the online software, you might be able to get a suggested remedy. just based on the stool description, i get that you be giving your ds mercurius vivius - but you should probably doublecheck









are you able to do the BRAT diet, even in part? that should definitely help firm things up.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Thank you Bluets for the info. I have read about omega balance but I do not understand about GLA, ALA ...

DS is about 8 days out from the start of his stomach bug and is still recovering. His poop is all (that I can see) is abnormal. It is mushy like mashed potatoes, but not mucousy. Saffron yellow in color and smells like vinegar. He had been mostly nursing for about a few days but has been eating more and more solids each day. The smell does not seem normal, and I am surprized about the yellow color. Anyone have any ideas?

I've wondered about the vinegar smell, too. I've noticed it in dd's poop, too, but I can't remember the color. They weren't firm, though, definitely like mashed potatoes.

Also, after reading about animals, I'm freaking. My dh got a cat TODAY. And now I'm so freaked. My dh thinks I'm being paranoid and I think he's just thinking about all the money he spent on cat stuff today. What the heck am I going to do now. . .







:


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Caedmyn: Can you give the probiotics to DD in something like oat milk? Or what about in some water? A little expressed breast milk?

Does the SCD help diverticulosis/diverticulitis?

Samantha


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

caedmyn, even though it may taste vile, it might be worthwhile trying EBM as a kefir substrate.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Thank you Bluets for the info. I have read about omega balance but I do not understand about GLA, ALA ...

DS is about 8 days out from the start of his stomach bug and is still recovering. His poop is all (that I can see) is abnormal. It is mushy like mashed potatoes, but not mucousy. Saffron yellow in color and smells like vinegar. He had been mostly nursing for about a few days but has been eating more and more solids each day. The smell does not seem normal, and I am surprized about the yellow color. Anyone have any ideas?

You might just give him a few more days to recover--I've noticed that when I've been sick sometimes my stools change colors and just takes a few days to go back to normal, which they do on their own.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Caedmyn: Can you give the probiotics to DD in something like oat milk? Or what about in some water? A little expressed breast milk?

Does the SCD help diverticulosis/diverticulitis?

Samantha

The SCD can help diverticulosis/litis.

DD will take probiotics straight, I was just wanting something I can culture. For that matter, I don't know why I couldn't culture juice "yogurt"...it's really just the sugar the bugs are feeding on, I think we just tend to think of yogurt in a milk form. I think oat milk might have the same problems as giving babies straight oats--if they can't digest oats, they probably wouldn't be able to handle oat milk, either.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn, even though it may taste vile, it might be worthwhile trying EBM as a kefir substrate.

I've never pumped, though...I was thinking today that she eats so little of the yogurt/kefir that I might just as well give her more probiotics, which are a lot easier to get into her, anyway. She eats maybe an ounce, or sometimes two, of the yogurt/kefir a day. If there's a billion good bacteria in a tsp (just guessing, I know the 24 hr yogurt on the SCD has more but this doesn't culture as long and I doubt it has more than a billion), she's getting 6-12 billion good bacteria out of the yogurt or kefir. That's 2-4 scoops of her probiotics. Maybe I'll just buy one of the dairy-free adult probiotics that contain 50 billion probiotics per capsule and start feeding her one of those a day


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I haven't been keeping up w/the thread very well and haven't read all the recent posts but saw something about GLA.

Wanted to mention that dd's DAN doc recommended Super GLA (she takes 1 300 mg. cap twice a week) and it has helped her sleep *tremendously*. I saw improvement right away. Of course, we also started folinic acid at the same time but I think the GLA is awesome. I have not noticed any changes in her bms though.

Just thought I'd throw that out there to all you mamas struggling w/sleep issues too.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Annikate--didn't you say you were using a custom probiotics blend? What is in the blend? Has it helped your DDs? I'm thinking about having them put together a blend for DD...maybe 55% b. infantis, 15% l. acidophilus, and 10% each l. rhamnosus, l. salivarius, and l. plantarum. It'd be super pricey, at least $125 with shipping! But if I gave her 100 billion CFU a day it would last 5 months...it'd be totally worth it if it helps her.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

I dropped off of this thread a few months ago so I'm not sure if anyone will remember me (I remember some of you - hi again).

I'm back after feeling pretty darn good for about 3 months. I had just weaned myself off daily doses of l-glutamine and Seacure (to heal the gut lining) and my digestion seemed on the up and up. I was still dealing with my bladder (Interstitial Cystitis) but at least my digestion was improving. Well, not anymore. For the last two weeks I've had horrible cramping and diarrhea (maybe not watery but loose and just icky) every time I eat. I feel HORRIBLE when I first wake in the morning and need to poop within the first hour, even before I eat anything. At first I thought it was hormonal related since it started when I got my period, but that was almost two weeks ago and while it improved (probably because I started back up on the l-glutamine which has prompted some healing) it's still not great. While I have a history of yeast/leaky gut issues, I don't believe that's what's going on now primarily because there are no accompanying vaginal issues and there always are when it's yeast. What I do have now is some very dry, bumpy, itchy rashes on my fingers which was making me think gluten intolerance since I know that can also be a sympton.
I have an appt with a new general MD tomorrow (I'm switching practices - my former practice is very holistic but the staff are inept and the doctors routinely cancel my appts out of the blue) who is supposedly open-minded. I decided to make an appt because after a week of this I think it's serious enough to warrant a doctor's visit. Plus, I'm at a point where I'm tired of guessing what's going on. I want to have a clear dx and then go from there. I'm guessing this doc will want to refer me out to a GI doc and that's where I get nervous. I DO NOT want to do any invasive procedures right away. About ten years ago I was dx'd with IBS (and we all know what a catch-all dx that is) and drugs were thrown at me. I never took 'em and switched my diet/took lots of probiotics, had the CDSA (which dx'd a yeast problem and dysbiosis) which helped but I'm beginning to feel as though I'm never correctly nipping any problems - just using a band-aid approach. Add to all this that I'm actively ttc and am seeking the help of a infertility specialist. So far I've been dx'd - this month - with not ovulating properly. I have what is called lutenized unruptured follicle syndrome. In other words, my blood work showed I ovulated but the follicle never released an egg. This might be a fluke since lots of women have this from time to time, so we need to monitor again next month to see if it repeats. I certainly do not want to be having upper and lower GIs and endoscopes or whatever they do in the conventional world since I know they will only require days of feeling like total shit (who will care for my daughter?) and then recovery and I want to avoid that while ttc.

So, my question to all of you in the know is - what should I be telling the doctor? What tests can I request that aren't invasive? I'd like to find out if I have any food allergies/sensitivies but don't know if I need to request a blood test or saliva. Do I want to see a GI doc or an allergist? I used to do phone consults with a holistically-minded GI doc (he did the CDSA) but he has since retired so I have no one to turn to locally who has a less-conversative approach.
Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Annikate--didn't you say you were using a custom probiotics blend? What is in the blend? Has it helped your DDs? I'm thinking about having them put together a blend for DD...maybe 55% b. infantis, 15% l. acidophilus, and 10% each l. rhamnosus, l. salivarius, and l. plantarum. It'd be super pricey, at least $125 with shipping! But if I gave her 100 billion CFU a day it would last 5 months...it'd be totally worth it if it helps her.

You know, the reuteri is the thing that has helped dd1 the most. More than anything else I've tried. (She had severe constipation issues.)

I have not used the probiotics for dd2 (the Custom blend) on a regular enough basis yet to tell if they are helping her or not.

I forget - do you use the reuteri?

I don't know . . . I'm not sure I'd shell out that much $ for a *maybe*. Why don't you call the guy at Custom Probiotics and talk to him? He's very knowledgeable and was friendly. He might have a recommendation.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
You know, the reuteri is the thing that has helped dd1 the most. More than anything else I've tried. (She had severe constipation issues.)

I have not used the probiotics for dd2 (the Custom blend) on a regular enough basis yet to tell if they are helping her or not.

I forget - do you use the reuteri?

I don't know . . . I'm not sure I'd shell out that much $ for a *maybe*. Why don't you call the guy at Custom Probiotics and talk to him? He's very knowledgeable and was friendly. He might have a recommendation.

When I started giving dd Reuteri (primodophilus) and Culturelle, that's when things started to get better, stool-wise. My biggest problem is getting her to eat the food I put them in







: She went from having nearly completely liquuid stools with undigested chunks (tmi, sorry) to formed mostly solid bms.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

ericaz - you might check out http://www.foresight-preconception.o...grammepreg.htm for an idea of ttc testing to go along with your infertility tests. they are a highly reputable organization. maybe take some of their materials to your doc.

as for GI testing, i would suggest perusing (and printing) some of the test possibilities from enterolabs and/or genova diagnostics (formerly great smokies lab). of course, take your past test results.

thorne's website has free back issues of alternative medical review (i think that's the name) which you should peruse and print - there are a number on leaky gut and dysbiosis... the last issue available has a review on celiac disease (and related topics).

i would also make it clear to the doc that you don't care about clinical trials - that you'd rather explore remedies even if there is only anecdotal supporting evidence.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Anybody have a good source for dairy free reuteri? I keep hearing all these good things about it and want to try it!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Anybody have a good source for dairy free reuteri? I keep hearing all these good things about it and want to try it!

I got mine at WF and I can't remember the brand. I'm pretty sure it has some form of dairy though. I'll check in the a.m. and if it doesn't I'll post and lyk.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Anybody have a good source for dairy free reuteri? I keep hearing all these good things about it and want to try it!

As far as I know there is only one brand of reuteri (I think it's Nature's Way) and it contains dairy. I'd like to find a dairy free one, too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn, even though it may taste vile, it might be worthwhile trying EBM as a kefir substrate.

Thank you for suggesting this. I got my water kefir grains today, am making some kefir soda for myself and I am pumping right now to make DS some BM kefir.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Thank you for suggesting this. I got my water kefir grains today, am making some kefir soda for myself and I am pumping right now to make DS some BM kefir.

Let me know how it works...I might consider getting a pump and trying it myself if it works. I wonder if you need milk kefir grains, though, or if water would work?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I'm trying to find info on kombucha and breastfeeding. I know there have been some disscussions around here but I am bad at using the search, how do I find these threads?

Also, is it possible that DS is reacting to tilapia but not cod? I have been looking back at my food diary and it seems like most of the times his face is itchy I have eaten tilapia. Probably just a coincidence. On this subject, does anyone here abstain from all seafood because of the mercury?


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## saratc (May 13, 2006)

Quote:

I'm trying to find info on kombucha and breastfeeding. I know there have been some disscussions around here but I am bad at using the search, how do I find these threads?
Here is the recent thread regarding kombucha and breastfeeding:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=531271

Quote:

Also, is it possible that DS is reacting to tilapia but not cod? I have been looking back at my food diary and it seems like most of the times his face is itchy I have eaten tilapia. Probably just a coincidence. On this subject, does anyone here abstain from all seafood because of the mercury?
Tilapia is farm-raised and cod is usually wild caught. You may want to watch for reactions when eating other farm-raised fish. It's possible that your DS is allergic to the PCBs and antibiotics in the farmed fish.

DH has issues with mercury and is going through AET right now. We noticed that while he would react with the higher mercury content fish like tuna, he wouldn't with low mercury fish like cod and salmon. We don't avoid fish altogether since our naturopathic doctor has said that the Omega 3's and good stuff you can get from fish is so much better from fresh fish than from supplements and the benefits generally outweigh the negatives, but it's best to stick with wild caught, low mercury fish.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
On this subject, does anyone here abstain from all seafood because of the mercury?

YES, YES, and YES. I know some are supposed to be lower in mercury than others and I know the differences btw. farm raised vs. wild caught etc. but I'm not taking any chances w/dd.

I love fish too and miss eating it. If it were just me though, and if I didn't have to think about dd, I'd eat it maybe once a month but no more and I definitely wouldn't eat canned anything.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Also, is it possible that DS is reacting to tilapia but not cod? I have been looking back at my food diary and it seems like most of the times his face is itchy I have eaten tilapia. Probably just a coincidence. On this subject, does anyone here abstain from all seafood because of the mercury?

Personally I think the benefits of most fish outweigh any risks of mercury, although I stay away from the high-mercury ones (tuna). I rarely eat any other seafood, though, because they filter toxins through their bodies.

I really only eat canned wild caught salmon or occasionally canned herring or sardines, though--we don't live anywhere near the coast and "fresh" fish is very expensive, so I rarely buy any.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Sara-thanks for the link to the kombucha/breastfeeding. And thanks for the kefir grains and scoby! My kefir is still brewing, it was still too sweet after 12 hrs. DS guzzled his BM kefir







. The grains must like the BM, they doubled in about 8 hrs.

Caedmyn-I have been pumping an extra bottle every night before I go to bed, when DS doesn't eat. It may be worth it to get a hand pump and try. I am hoping that kefir will help us! You can also hand expressing milk, are you familiar with this technique? http://www.lactationinstitute.org/MANUALEX.html


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
DS guzzled his BM kefir







. The grains must like the BM, they doubled in about 8 hrs.

So, did YOU taste it?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

two days without kefir (kept forgetting to get milk at the store).... and then last night i got walloped by a nasty stomach bug. both ends, simultaneously - TMI i'm sure. so much for my cast iron stomach. ds had the chills around dinner time but seemed ok last night and dh (so far) is unaffected (he usually gets these sorts of things first so maybe he's ok). though dh is fighting a cold that is settling nicely into his lungs.

the worst part is twofold - both daycare teachers were flattened over the weekend by some stomach bug. they felt fine after clearing their gut contents but then were hit with nasty delusional-style fevers the next day. maybe i won't be doing laundry today after all!

the other part is that we ate at a friend's house last night and she did everything NT-style including kefir butter and kefir ice cream. she got her grains from me a few months ago.

so.... has anybody tried anyone else's yogurt or kefir and gotten sick? i'm sure that we form quite a tight symbiosis with our usual homebrews but i'm also sure that homebrews vary from house to house.

i guess the good news is that ds's tiny eczema patches seem to be going away now that i've gone back to my summertime dosages of EPO and borage oil (i've confounded things though by cutting wheat out for a few days, some of which i had last night - so maybe that's why i got sick?). now i'm trying to figure out if his sinus issues are infectious or allergic. i think i'll just crawl back under the covers and sleep on this for a while


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

The eczema on DD's cheeks looks the best when she first wakes up in the morning, and by early afternoon they start looking pretty red. Is this common for eczema, or does it seem like something she's eating during the day is making them red? I would think it is something she is eating and not something I am eating because she nurses just as frequently at night as she does during the daytime. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I'm wondering if the wheat I keep eating is making DD's eczema worse (yes, I'm cheating a lot these days). I would like to do a month wheat-free, but I don't know if that is possible right now as we are going to visit DH's family for a week over Thanksgiving. We will be traveling (and eating out) for a couple of days, and then with Thanksgiving (I will not be cooking)...those of you who have done it (Annikate?) how feasible is it to try to go wheat-free while eating out or eating at other people's houses?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
The eczema on DD's cheeks looks the best when she first wakes up in the morning, and by early afternoon they start looking pretty red. Is this common for eczema, or does it seem like something she's eating during the day is making them red? I would think it is something she is eating and not something I am eating because she nurses just as frequently at night as she does during the daytime. Any thoughts on this?


Could it be that she's just not touching them or irritating them while she's sleeping? I know that my dd's eczema (behind her knee) is paler and drier in the morning, but during the day, her clothes rub on it and she sometimes touches it, so at night it looks worse. Also, when do you bathe your dd? We do it at night, so any irritation that might arise from that is gone by morning.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Also, I'm wondering if the wheat I keep eating is making DD's eczema worse (yes, I'm cheating a lot these days). I would like to do a month wheat-free, but I don't know if that is possible right now as we are going to visit DH's family for a week over Thanksgiving. We will be traveling (and eating out) for a couple of days, and then with Thanksgiving (I will not be cooking)...those of you who have done it (Annikate?) how feasible is it to try to go wheat-free while eating out or eating at other people's houses?

I cheated a lot the few days before Halloween.







It was the first time in a long time that I'd had anything with dairy (at least with more than trace amounts). DD broke out all over, with rough patches on her torso, legs and arms, and streaky, red stuff behind her knees and under her arms. Thankfully, it's clearing up pretty quickly and the yeast rash didn't seem to accompany it at all. (Maybe the threelac is working?).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
The eczema on DD's cheeks looks the best when she first wakes up in the morning, and by early afternoon they start looking pretty red. Is this common for eczema, or does it seem like something she's eating during the day is making them red? I would think it is something she is eating and not something I am eating because she nurses just as frequently at night as she does during the daytime. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I'm wondering if the wheat I keep eating is making DD's eczema worse (yes, I'm cheating a lot these days). I would like to do a month wheat-free, but I don't know if that is possible right now as we are going to visit DH's family for a week over Thanksgiving. We will be traveling (and eating out) for a couple of days, and then with Thanksgiving (I will not be cooking)...those of you who have done it (Annikate?) how feasible is it to try to go wheat-free while eating out or eating at other people's houses?

Oh caedmyn you *must* try to eliminate wheat then if you haven't really given it a go.

Of course, I'm biased. To me, wheat = evil.







(Not really funny if you could see my dd after she's gotten some.) Just the look she gets in her eyes is enough for me to never want to eat it again. She gets that totally *checked out* look - I don't know any other way to describe it. Not to mention the myriad of other things it does to her system.

It is very difficult not ingesting any wheat (and gluten too!) while you are away from home because it is *everything*. And I mean everything, from Morton salt to frozen peas to . . . everything.

If I were in your shoes I'd give it at least 6 weeks wheat/gluten free and see if it helps. It took dd 8 weeks to get it out of her system (and mine I guess.)

And I love bread too. I'm currently addicted to Whole Foods' gluten free baked goods. Yeah, there's a lot of other crap in there like soy







: and sugar though so I'm trying to limit myself.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

caedmyn - not entirely wheat-free yet here but we are visiting my dh's grandparents over thanksgiving (which is prolly worse than just the ILs - age makes a huge difference). i planned a menu for us and am baking snacks and treats and even a few meals (to freeze). we'll haul a huge cooler along with us. "FOOD ALLERGIES" is the story i'm sticking to. that and "the doctor said so". dh has already told grandma







and has already heard "well, how do you make pumpkin pie without using a can of milk?" eesh.

i am finding gluten free treats however in the raw foods world. there's a nice thread going on in Traditional Foods with a few recipes (Even one that calls for 20 eggs!) and then there's always the other forums to check out. firefaery has a ton of recipes that she can point you (us) to.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Argh! This is a really bad time to be trying to eliminate foods...between this trip to visit DH's family, and then 2 1/2 weeks after that DD & I will be moving to Montana because DH is being deployed...after we move we will have roughly 10 days where I don't know where we will be living or we'll be bouncing back around beween two different states while we spend our last few days with DH. I know we will be eating out some (almost impossible not to, plus, well...I would like to enjoy my last little bit of time with DH for 6+ months). I was hoping I could start now and go wheat free for 4 weeks but I think it is just going to be too difficult right now. I guess I'll eliminate coconut milk from DD's diet for the time being and see if that helps since that will be much easier to do right now. Then after the first of the year I can try wheat/gluten free if things haven't improved.

Annikate--do you think two weeks of wheat free would be enough to see any results at all? I have two weeks before we go to visit DH's family...

DD doesn't mess with/rub her cheeks at all so I don't think that affects the eczema as far as night-time goes. She only gets a bath every 7-10 days because she hates the water


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## SweetAfton (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm new to this whole "healing the gut" thing, and I'm pretty overwealmed. The cheat sheet sticky is wonderful, but I was wondering if someone could post a link to the very first healing the gut thread. The earliest I see is March '06 and it seems by the first few posts that there were threads before it. Could someone please post a link to the first "healing the gut" thread?
Thanks!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SweetAfton* 
I'm new to this whole "healing the gut" thing, and I'm pretty overwealmed. The cheat sheet sticky is wonderful, but I was wondering if someone could post a link to the very first healing the gut thread. The earliest I see is March '06 and it seems by the first few posts that there were threads before it. Could someone please post a link to the first "healing the gut" thread?
Thanks!

Welcome!
Here is the very first Healing the GUt thread - before it was called that.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Annikate--do you think two weeks of wheat free would be enough to see any results at all? I have two weeks before we go to visit DH's family...

It's sure worth a try. In all the reading I've done I don't *think* two weeks would be enough, but hey, like everything else - - each person is different.

If you do try it for 2 weeks keep that in mind and if you don't see improvement don't let it discourage you.

Oh, did you say you were going to eliminate CO too? Why don't you do that first and see what happens and then try the wheat afterward.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Some questions. Sorry I don't have a ton of time to be supportive lately.

We have found somone who does NAET. Who here has done that? What do you think of it? It feels really right to me to do this so perhaps I don't want to hear any bad stories....

Also, I realized that dd does not crave sweets and never has. Could this mean that she really doesn't have yeast in her gut but instead has some other bad bug? Fruit and sugar makes her nuts







: but she doesn't crave it (like I do







: )

thoughts???


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Some questions. Sorry I don't have a ton of time to be supportive lately.

We have found somone who does NAET. Who here has done that? What do you think of it? It feels really right to me to do this so perhaps I don't want to hear any bad stories....

Also, I realized that dd does not crave sweets and never has. Could this mean that she really doesn't have yeast in her gut but instead has some other bad bug? Fruit and sugar makes her nuts







: but she doesn't crave it (like I do







: )

thoughts???

I don't see why sugars couldn't feed other bad bugs, too. Her behavior changed for the better when you eliminated fruit & sweets from her diet, right? FWIW, I never craved sweets or fruit, either. I ate quite a bit of them, especially fruit, but it was because I was hungry and didn't know what else to eat, not because I craved them....


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Wheat- when I first started the diet a few months back I saw huge improvements in my own health from cutting out wheat(90% of my allergies such as sneezing and runny nose went away.) But I still cheated about once a week with some sweet treat, now I have really been wheat free for 2 months and I don't see a difference in DS's cheeks. Something else may be going on though, like not having CLO for a week...I couldn't stomach it after my stomach bug.

My water kefir soda is still sweet after 24 hrs. Is that normal? I used agave nectar as the sweetener and a slice of lemon and ginger. And, NO, I did not taste the BM kefir. In fact I have only tasted a tiny bit of my BM plain.

Caedmyn-Is your DH going to Iraq? Sounds like you will be having a stressful few months even without trying to stay on the diet. I agree with trying to cut out CO first, much easier. Are you egg free too? I need some more variety in my diet and am thinking of adding them back in, I don't know if DS is actually sensitive to them.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Wheat free-ok, I just looked at hidden gluten and I could be having a touch of these hidden things. Hmm, it is difficult to get it all out. I have not found any lists that have table salt (not that I use it) or frozen peas, Annikate, do you have a good website to check these things?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Wheat can take up to 6 months to work out of your system.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Wheat- when I first started the diet a few months back I saw huge improvements in my own health from cutting out wheat(90% of my allergies such as sneezing and runny nose went away.) But I still cheated about once a week with some sweet treat, now I have really been wheat free for 2 months and I don't see a difference in DS's cheeks. Something else may be going on though, like not having CLO for a week...I couldn't stomach it after my stomach bug.

My water kefir soda is still sweet after 24 hrs. Is that normal? I used agave nectar as the sweetener and a slice of lemon and ginger. And, NO, I did not taste the BM kefir. In fact I have only tasted a tiny bit of my BM plain.

Caedmyn-Is your DH going to Iraq? Sounds like you will be having a stressful few months even without trying to stay on the diet. I agree with trying to cut out CO first, much easier. Are you egg free too? I need some more variety in my diet and am thinking of adding them back in, I don't know if DS is actually sensitive to them.

Is it your first batch of water kefir? Sometimes the grains take a batch or two to get going after being shipped. Also, if you've been off sweets and fruit, you might try having someone who hasn't been off them taste it--I made a batch with ginger that tasted really sweet to me and DH said it tasted like teriyaki sauce. Mine usually start losing their sweetness after around 24 hours...then I strain the grains out and let them sit for another 12-36 hours until they're starting to be sour.

DH is going to Afghanistan. It will actually be easier for me to do the diet once he's gone as I won't be tempted to go out and eat. I'm going to try cutting out coconut MILK for DD, not CO...CO is about 1/3 of my calories so I can't cut it out unless there are no alternatives. I'm not egg free...yet another thing DD could be reacting to.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I don't see why sugars couldn't feed other bad bugs, too. Her behavior changed for the better when you eliminated fruit & sweets from her diet, right? FWIW, I never craved sweets or fruit, either. I ate quite a bit of them, especially fruit, but it was because I was hungry and didn't know what else to eat, not because I craved them....

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing about the cravings. I don't think that because she doesn't crave them doesn't mean she has no yeat. Dunno tho. You know Patty, her CDSA showed *no* yeast right? So maybe she is fighting something else altogether.

Re: NAET. I have a friend who keeps recommending that I take dd for her wheat allergy. She swears by it. Saw huge improvements in her dcs through the treatments. I'm really not into going because dd's wheat allergy isn't that difficult for me to deal with right now. When she gets to be school-age and out of my reach more I might consider it.

The thing about NAET (from what I've heard) is that you have to make sure you find a really good practitioner. (Not unlike other things I guess. . . )


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Wheat can take up to 6 months to work out of your system.

It's nasty, nasty stuff.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing about the cravings. I don't think that because she doesn't crave them doesn't mean she has no yeat. Dunno tho. You know Patty, her CDSA showed *no* yeast right? So maybe she is fighting something else altogether.

Re: NAET. I have a friend who keeps recommending that I take dd for her wheat allergy. She swears by it. Saw huge improvements in her dcs through the treatments. I'm really not into going because dd's wheat allergy isn't that difficult for me to deal with right now. When she gets to be school-age and out of my reach more I might consider it.

The thing about NAET (from what I've heard) is that you have to make sure you find a really good practitioner. (Not unlike other things I guess. . . )

Yea she had no yeast in her cdsa but I don't think that means much.

If dd's allergy was just wheat... She is either getting something she shouldn't, started a new allergy or something else entirely is going on. The past 2+ weeks have been really difficult. All the ground we gained this past summer cutting out fruit and dairy is gone, we are back to where we were then (and still no fruit or dairy).

I have a really good feeling about the woman who does this NAET. It seems weird but I think we were meant to find her specifically. The fact that she lives just 2 blocks from me is a part of that for sure. My only real hesitation is that she isn't listed on the NAET practitioner database, but then neither is the DAN Dr we were recomended to who also does NAET and she came with glowing recomendations. I have talked to several acupuncturists who speak of this woman with such warmth and admiration, that helps me feel really good about her too.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Wheat free-ok, I just looked at hidden gluten and I could be having a touch of these hidden things. Hmm, it is difficult to get it all out. I have not found any lists that have table salt (not that I use it) or frozen peas, Annikate, do you have a good website to check these things?

I do have a list that someone on a yahoo group sent me. I had a near computer crash several weeks ago and cleaned the hd. I'll see if I can find it.

I have not found any good websites. In fact, one site said one of the "best bets" for going wheat/gluten free was OATMEAL.







head

I learned a lot about hidden gluten just by hanging around on the pecanbread group. I haven't been over there in many many months though. There are people over there who actually have the time to call companies and get the nitty gritty details.

Just imagine trying to add *that* into your daily repetoire.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

The more I hang out here the more saddened I become that we have to take all of these matters into our own hands. Sickening.

BTW, the site I said above that recommended oatmeal for a gluten-free diet came from dd's allergist.









Well, he's not really her allergist. He's the only one in our insurance book that we could take her to to get the RAST done.

Needless to say, we haven't been back since.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
BTW, the site I said above that recommended oatmeal for a gluten-free diet came from dd's allergist.









I am gluten-free and the misinformation out there is so frustrating!!! I feel like, unless I eat a home, there is gluten everywhere!

I just wanted to say







hello. I have many food intolerances (20 on a blood test!!) and mild candida and I am hoping SCD will help me heal my gut...Is SCD a good choice for me? (I eat traditional foods and take probiotics already) I am also on antibiotics for 2nd stage Lyme right now so I am at least trying to keep any further damage from being done.

Jen


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Wheat: To find out truly wheat/gluten free foods, check out one of the Celiac organizations out there. http://tinyurl.com/ughkt These are just the search results to save some time. Celiac Sprue has a sample letter to send to companies for full disclosure of the ingredients in their products on the label.

DD and I have been wheat free (not necessarily gluten, though) for 8 months. Wheat makes her incontinent. I had a week of unavoidable wheat exposure (a wedding and a funeral, everything covered in gravy), and she didn't get the usual incontinence. So I did a full on wheat trial (breaded boneless chicken wings with a Kung Pow sauce). She didn't react--but *I* did! I was a raging monster the next day! I had been taking EPO for PMS symptoms, but stopped taking it when the PMS was not so bad (coinciding with the absence of wheat). With that one super wheat challenge I was a mess. No more wheat for us!

Pumpkin pie: Coconut milk can be substituted in pumpkin pie and it tastes yummy!

Kim Chi: Anyone doing kim chi? I made a batch and it's too salty, like cut open your tongue salty, because I didn't account for the fish sauce







: . Is there any way to get rid of some saltiness? Can I stick a raw potato in there to absord it? It's so tasty otherwise, I'd sure hate to waste it!

Cashew Sour Cream: Here's a recipe for Cashew Sour Cream I stumbled upon. It's SCD legal as far as I can tell. I haven't tried it yet.
Cashew Sour Cream

1 cup raw cashews (must not be roasted or salted)
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 to 2 teaspoons apple cider vinegar
Juice of one small lemon

Cover cashews with water and soak for a few hours, or overnight. Pour off all water, and place nuts in food processor. Add 1/4 cup cold water, salt, vinegar and lemon juice. Puree for 3-4 minutes or until completely smooth and creamy in consistency. Use in any recipe that calls for sour cream.

Samantha


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

MommyofPunkiePie said:


> Kim Chi: Anyone doing kim chi? I made a batch and it's too salty, like cut open your tongue salty, because I didn't account for the fish sauce
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## saratc (May 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Kim Chi: Anyone doing kim chi? I made a batch and it's too salty, like cut open your tongue salty, because I didn't account for the fish sauce







: . Is there any way to get rid of some saltiness? Can I stick a raw potato in there to absord it? It's so tasty otherwise, I'd sure hate to waste it!

Like Caedmyn mentioned, you can mix some extra veggies into it. No need to mix the new veggies with salt -- just mix thoroughly with your kim chi, pound them back into jars and let sit for another day at room temperature or just stick in your fridge. You'll end up with more kim chi, although in the beginning, the new veggies won't taste very fermented.

BTW, I've been following this thread(s) for awhile although I haven't posted much here, so I haven't introduced myself properly. I tend to have a milk allergy and suspected leaky gut. A little over two years ago, my allergies were so bad that I ended up with a chronic cough that lasted almost six months. I began to have asthma attacks a couple of times a day and it got so bad, I couldn't sleep in my own bed or go into the main bathroom without an attack. I was starting to become "bubble girl". My conventional primary care physician gave me allergy medicine which only worked for a couple of weeks. I read about dust mite allergies and mold allergies and pet allergies (I have 2 cats), but in my gut (no pun intended)







, I knew that something was wrong with me, that's it's not right to have to live with ionic air cleaners and scrub down the bathroom and floors every day. That's when DH and I got really hard core on nutrition.

Fast forward to today -- I only get slight sniffles now during allergy season. I'm still trying to heal my gut since I keep self-diagnosing deficiencies that I'm sure is caused by mal-absorption and digestive issues. I try to do a lot of fermented foods, and am convinced that it played a huge part in my healing.

Quote:

Cashew Sour Cream: Here's a recipe for Cashew Sour Cream I stumbled upon. It's SCD legal as far as I can tell. I haven't tried it yet.
Oh, hey. I think there's a similar recipe in Wild Fermentation for sour cream made with pepitas (pumpkin seeds). It sounded so good, that even though I'm not currently avoiding dairy (I only do fermented dairy), I got some pepitas to try making it. Will post the recipe when I find my book.


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## SweetAfton (Sep 23, 2006)

Wow, so much great information! I read through the original thread, the first page of the 2nd thread, and most all of the linked articles. I have a question about kefir...

If you're "healing the gut" can you drink kefir made with cow's milk? I saw that SCD doesn't allow milk. Can you drink kefir made with anything?

Thanks!
-Afton


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Whoa. I was reading the BTVC book and 2 yo ds has symptoms for celiac (Thin with a distended tummy). My blood tests suspect I am celiac and it can run in the family. I guess we will be doing this together! I told dh about our new diet last night and he said it does not bother him as long as there is food in the house.









I like all the food on SCD, I just feel overwhelmed about going to people's homes and eating out......If anyone has some encouragement I would love that...

*Saratc*-That is so great about your allergies. When I cut out sugar my allergies disappeared.
*MamaofPunkie*-Thanks for the gluten website

*Kefir*- I read that it can be introduced after 6 months of healing. I think I will stick with the 24 hour yogurt for now....
Jen


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so with the stomach bug i had, i learned that stomach infections deplete magnesium. big time.

here's a picture (http://ep.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/90/3/ep68/F2) - the article itself isn't really relevant. i was just looking for confirmation that my restless legs weren't just all in my head - that there was some underlying reason that my mag levels got all wonky.

and mental note for the next time - i felt the restless legs the day before i felt crappy and spewed. so NEXT time, i'll know to take my mag when those legs start getting jittery. i took 2 tsp of natural calm last night and another 1 tsp this morning. still haven't finished rebuilding my mag supplies.

for those who are fighting creatures besides yeast, i had read (some time ago) that bad E coli and a bunch of other undesirable microbes are beaten out by cinnamon oil, clove oil, oregano oil and some others (for more details see http://lifeisaprocess.org/2006/09/27...enic-bacteria/ on my neglected blog). i'm wondering if you could spike your beverages to do some damage to bad gut bugs (if you knew you had them) - they showed that the oils survive digestion and have little impact on good gut bugs.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
And, NO, I did not taste the BM kefir. In fact I have only tasted a tiny bit of my BM plain.

ok, so i have tasted my EBM. once after a whole bunch of gingerbread cookies last winter (before this whole ordeal) - tasted like... gingerbread cookies! and then a few days later, it tasted like the curried garlic sweet potatoes i had eaten the night before. i was actually using it to gargle coz my throat was sore and mom didn't happen to have any sodium ascorbate. (i'm thinking that emergen-C and 3 lb bottles of sodium ascorbate will be on my gift list ideas for my parents and sister!)

i did taste the EBM yogurt and the EBM kefir i tried to make. i figured if i didn't like it, there was no way i'd be able to get it into ds. anyhow, ds is now at least agreeable (when he's not so negative) to a few teaspoons of regular kefir, as long as it has some granola in it







:

thinking of my sis - her little one (he'll be 1 in late february) was having a hard time sleeping at night, nursed every 2 hours or so. she would beat off one infection and then getting hit with another.... then she saw some health care practitioner (i think she's on her 3rd ND!) who gave her a B vitamin concoction and some hormone (she thinks it might be prolactin but isn't sure - she's horrible with details) that helps one sleep. now they're both getting better sleep - yay!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

the GFCF yahoo group posted this pdf though it is only GF not CF (casein free):

http://www.dallasrock.org/pdf/SchoolGFList.pdf

should we maybe start a separate GF thread? did that candida/yeast thread go anywhere?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
so with the stomach bug i had, i learned that stomach infections deplete magnesium. big time.

here's a picture (http://ep.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/90/3/ep68/F2) - the article itself isn't really relevant. i was just looking for confirmation that my restless legs weren't just all in my head - that there was some underlying reason that my mag levels got all wonky.

and mental note for the next time - i felt the restless legs the day before i felt crappy and spewed. so NEXT time, i'll know to take my mag when those legs start getting jittery. i took 2 tsp of natural calm last night and another 1 tsp this morning. still haven't finished rebuilding my mag supplies.

for those who are fighting creatures besides yeast, i had read (some time ago) that bad E coli and a bunch of other undesirable microbes are beaten out by cinnamon oil, clove oil, oregano oil and some others (for more details see http://lifeisaprocess.org/2006/09/27...enic-bacteria/ on my neglected blog). i'm wondering if you could spike your beverages to do some damage to bad gut bugs (if you knew you had them) - they showed that the oils survive digestion and have little impact on good gut bugs.

Talk more about your jittery legs - do you mean that they feel unstudy or that you have the uncontrollable urge to jitter them (or something else)? All the things I never really thought about or thought were just harmless quirks are starting to make sense now . . .


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Talk more about your jittery legs - do you mean that they feel unstudy or that you have the uncontrollable urge to jitter them (or something else)? All the things I never really thought about or thought were just harmless quirks are starting to make sense now . . .

jittery legs... for me it happened a LOT when i was pregnant, only occasionally prior to that. in the late evening while watching TV, my feet would get restless - i would try to crack my ankles over and over again but get no relief. during the pregnancy especially, it would wake me up in the middle of the night and i'd do yoga in the dark to calm them down (not that helped much). the other night it happened while i was nursing ds in bed - i wanted to cut the nursing session short so that i could get up and run around. there's more info in the Nutrition 101 sticky in the Vax forum.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
the GFCF yahoo group posted this pdf though it is only GF not CF (casein free):

http://www.dallasrock.org/pdf/SchoolGFList.pdf

should we maybe start a separate GF thread? did that candida/yeast thread go anywhere?

Hmmm. . . I didn't know there was a seperate candida thread. That's why a lot of the mamas were begging for the Healing the GUt to be its own forum. (Think of all the subforums we could have. . . LOTS of information here to *digest* <cough cough>

Ah, it's more fun having everyone here though, no?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
jittery legs... for me it happened a LOT when i was pregnant, only occasionally prior to that. in the late evening while watching TV, my feet would get restless - i would try to crack my ankles over and over again but get no relief. during the pregnancy especially, it would wake me up in the middle of the night and i'd do yoga in the dark to calm them down (not that helped much). the other night it happened while i was nursing ds in bed - i wanted to cut the nursing session short so that i could get up and run around. there's more info in the Nutrition 101 sticky in the Vax forum.


Yeah, I had restless legs bad when I was pg. I would take a calcium-magnesium supplement and eat a banana for the potassium. I never had a problem when I did that about an hour before bed.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Hmmm. . . I didn't know there was a seperate candida thread. That's why a lot of the mamas were begging for the Healing the GUt to be its own forum. (Think of all the subforums we could have. . . LOTS of information here to *digest* <cough cough>

Ah, it's more fun having everyone here though, no?

Who do we have to ask about a separate HTG forum? It would be soooooo helpful. There are so many facets to this problem, so many bugs, so many causes, so many remedies. Should we start a pming campaign to the powers that be??


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Who do we have to ask about a separate HTG forum? It would be soooooo helpful. There are so many facets to this problem, so many bugs, so many causes, so many remedies. Should we start a pming campaign to the powers that be??

yes yes yes


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I forgot it was November. Hi there! I have to go back and catch up. I'm also gonna hit you ladies with my newest post...

Okay, I have exhausted my resources (of which there are many.) I'm posting this as a serious longshot. Maybe it will jog someone's memory or something-who knows.

My newest ds doesn't poop. Well, to clarify, he poops very infrequently-as in once every ten days. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable, is thriving and meeting all of his developmental milestones and generally a very happy little man.

He has at least three food allergies that I am aware of (that provoke an immediate and clear response.) I'm sure there are more, but my many dietary changes have not uncovered them. I have gone off nuts, legumes, seeds, beans, nightshades, animal products etc. I have done them all for long enough periods of time to see a difference. The only ones that are clear are soy, dairy and eggs.

He has minor structural stuff that is begin addressed very consistently. He also had a tongue tie. All of the midline stuff has been assessed and I am comfortable with everybody's reports. He has trouble bearing down with his diaphragm, and we're working on it. The problem is he consistently goes ten days without a bowel movement and when he goes it's just once. Not a large one either, just one regular bm-then nothing for another ten days. There is no blockage or build up in his intestinal tract. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable and it isn't difficult for him to have the bm.

It is the right color, though the consistency is off. It's sometimes a bit thick, and sometimes a bit runny. IT smells exactly as it should.

I haven't been able to find a probiotic that he can tolerate yet, so we're also working on that. I am very clear on what needs to happen in his gut, what I'm not clear on is why isn't he producing more waste? Anybody? Given what I've said, would you worry? This is absolutely not a normal stooling pattern, but aside from *knowing* that, nothing else appears to be a problem. Thanks for any insights.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
I am gluten-free and the misinformation out there is so frustrating!!! I feel like, unless I eat a home, there is gluten everywhere!

I just wanted to say







hello. I have many food intolerances (20 on a blood test!!) and mild candida and I am hoping SCD will help me heal my gut...Is SCD a good choice for me? (I eat traditional foods and take probiotics already) I am also on antibiotics for 2nd stage Lyme right now so I am at least trying to keep any further damage from being done.

Jen


It's true, gluten is everywhere.

You may find the diet very helpful, I know we have. OTher's have not. Unfortunately it is a trial and error thing. Welcome though! Are you doing anything besides antibiotics for the lyme?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
The eczema on DD's cheeks looks the best when she first wakes up in the morning, and by early afternoon they start looking pretty red. Is this common for eczema, or does it seem like something she's eating during the day is making them red? I would think it is something she is eating and not something I am eating because she nurses just as frequently at night as she does during the daytime. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I'm wondering if the wheat I keep eating is making DD's eczema worse (yes, I'm cheating a lot these days). I would like to do a month wheat-free, but I don't know if that is possible right now as we are going to visit DH's family for a week over Thanksgiving. We will be traveling (and eating out) for a couple of days, and then with Thanksgiving (I will not be cooking)...those of you who have done it (Annikate?) how feasible is it to try to go wheat-free while eating out or eating at other people's houses?

IT's tough, no doubt. We have been GF for over a year now. I brought MANY dishes to thanksgiving/christmas last year. By and large people are willing to accomodate, but they rarely know what that means. Gluten is hidden everywhere. I jsut make it easy by bringing my own things. There is also a site that lists all restaurant foods that are GF which is good to have on hand if you are travelling quite a bit.

Are you going just wheat free or gluten free? I recommend going GF, it's far easier to just get rid of it all at once. If you just go wheat free for a couple of months and still have symptoms then you need to go gluten free for several more months to rule it out. Really a pain. Better to get it over with IMO!

I believe it's pecanbread that has a stuffing recipe that is to die for. I'll have to go check. I didn't miss my favorite dish at all with that substitute! Dh loved it too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

FF-I don't know half as much as you about these things, but DS had a similar poo pattern from 3m-7m, until I added probiotics. Do you think your DS could handle breast milk kefir? I just got water kefir grains and added then to BM. It has not been long enough to tell if there is a difference. I know you are meticulous in everything you do for your diet, it can be so frustrating to not see results. Keep up the amazing work, you inspire me to keep going!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn - not entirely wheat-free yet here but we are visiting my dh's grandparents over thanksgiving (which is prolly worse than just the ILs - age makes a huge difference). i planned a menu for us and am baking snacks and treats and even a few meals (to freeze). we'll haul a huge cooler along with us. "FOOD ALLERGIES" is the story i'm sticking to. that and "the doctor said so". dh has already told grandma







and has already heard "well, how do you make pumpkin pie without using a can of milk?" eesh.

i am finding gluten free treats however in the raw foods world. there's a nice thread going on in Traditional Foods with a few recipes (Even one that calls for 20 eggs!) and then there's always the other forums to check out. firefaery has a ton of recipes that she can point you (us) to.

I have perfected my GF/CF/SF pumpkin pie! Give a holler if you need it.

That is why the raw world is so very easy for me. It's practically allergen free!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nolansmum-similar in what way? Frequency (or lack thereof) color or amount? It's the minimal output that is freaking me out the most.

Sigh. I would try BM kefir. Problem is my supply isn't fabulous. I work to ebf-there really generally isn't enough left to pump. I could try though. Where do I acquire the water grains?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Gluten free-*

Thank you so much for bringing up this topic! I have not been diligent about all gluten and hope this will help us heal some more. I have look carefully through my food and my spices are really the only thing I am not 100% positive about. I buy my spices from Whole foods, but they don't say gluten free. Body products are another matter... I was using Eucerin on my hands frequently throughout the day.







I am also unsure about my makeup, I need to get a good list of what gluten ingredients are in makeup-this is a harder list to find.

I am travelling next week to NYC and will look into the gluten free meals at restaurants, I know there are also gluten free restaurants there, hmmm.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I have perfected my GF/CF/SF pumpkin pie! Give a holler if you need it.

That is why the raw world is so very easy for me. It's practically allergen free!

ooo please share!

i can guess that the crust is something like appropriately soaked nuts (mmmm pecans....) and dates... i'm at a loss for the (raw?) filling though.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Nolansmum-similar in what way? Frequency (or lack thereof) color or amount? It's the minimal output that is freaking me out the most.

Sigh. I would try BM kefir. Problem is my supply isn't fabulous. I work to ebf-there really generally isn't enough left to pump. I could try though. Where do I acquire the water grains?


there's a sticky in the nutrition forum "kefir grains and kombucha scobies" where the holders of the grains advertise their free wares (charging only for packing materials and postage)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

FF, I can send you water grains. PM me your info.


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## SillyMommy (May 13, 2003)

subbing - must come back and read. DS and I both have issues.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Nolansmum-similar in what way? Frequency (or lack thereof) color or amount? It's the minimal output that is freaking me out the most.

Sigh. I would try BM kefir. Problem is my supply isn't fabulous. I work to ebf-there really generally isn't enough left to pump. I could try though. Where do I acquire the water grains?

Similar as in frequency, he had a little more output than your DS, but not 10 days worth of poo that's for sure. The smell was normal (I thought it smelled like buttered popcorn







) and it was a normal consistency for EBF. I still have yet to figure out his food sensitivities.

I would love your pumkin pie recipe! And if you find that stuffing recipe (I will look, but sometimes these things are like a needle in a haystack.) I am working on a pate recipe right now, I'll post tomorrow if it turns out well.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
*Gluten free-*

Thank you so much for bringing up this topic! I have not been diligent about all gluten and hope this will help us heal some more. I have look carefully through my food and my spices are really the only thing I am not 100% positive about. I buy my spices from Whole foods, but they don't say gluten free. Body products are another matter... I was using Eucerin on my hands frequently throughout the day.







I am also unsure about my makeup, I need to get a good list of what gluten ingredients are in makeup-this is a harder list to find.

I am travelling next week to NYC and will look into the gluten free meals at restaurants, I know there are also gluten free restaurants there, hmmm.

eesh... i hadn't even gotten to that point yet. though our finely tuned morning routine just doesn't allow for me to apply makeup (so glad that i work in a casual midwest university)... however, i suspect if we have issues they are most definitely internal not transdermal.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Hmmm. . . I didn't know there was a seperate candida thread. That's why a lot of the mamas were begging for the Healing the GUt to be its own forum. (Think of all the subforums we could have. . . LOTS of information here to *digest* <cough cough>

Ah, it's more fun having everyone here though, no?

i thought caedmyn had started one a ways back...


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
there's a sticky in the nutrition forum "kefir grains and kombucha scobies" where the holders of the grains advertise their free wares (charging only for packing materials and postage)

I found saratc(welcometo HTG!) there, I picked up my scoby and water kefir grains from her last weekend. I am waiting for my first batch of kefir to get less sweet







. I can't believe I would ever say that!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I forgot it was November. Hi there! I have to go back and catch up. I'm also gonna hit you ladies with my newest post...

Okay, I have exhausted my resources (of which there are many.) I'm posting this as a serious longshot. Maybe it will jog someone's memory or something-who knows.

My newest ds doesn't poop. Well, to clarify, he poops very infrequently-as in once every ten days. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable, is thriving and meeting all of his developmental milestones and generally a very happy little man.

He has at least three food allergies that I am aware of (that provoke an immediate and clear response.) I'm sure there are more, but my many dietary changes have not uncovered them. I have gone off nuts, legumes, seeds, beans, nightshades, animal products etc. I have done them all for long enough periods of time to see a difference. The only ones that are clear are soy, dairy and eggs.

He has minor structural stuff that is begin addressed very consistently. He also had a tongue tie. All of the midline stuff has been assessed and I am comfortable with everybody's reports. He has trouble bearing down with his diaphragm, and we're working on it. The problem is he consistently goes ten days without a bowel movement and when he goes it's just once. Not a large one either, just one regular bm-then nothing for another ten days. There is no blockage or build up in his intestinal tract. He doesn't appear to be uncomfortable and it isn't difficult for him to have the bm.

It is the right color, though the consistency is off. It's sometimes a bit thick, and sometimes a bit runny. IT smells exactly as it should.

I haven't been able to find a probiotic that he can tolerate yet, so we're also working on that. I am very clear on what needs to happen in his gut, what I'm not clear on is why isn't he producing more waste? Anybody? Given what I've said, would you worry? This is absolutely not a normal stooling pattern, but aside from *knowing* that, nothing else appears to be a problem. Thanks for any insights.

Could it be that he is just using the bm so effeciently that there isn't much left over? It isn't like it is high fiber or anything like that to bulk it up. Thats all I've got.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
It's true, gluten is everywhere.

You may find the diet very helpful, I know we have. OTher's have not. Unfortunately it is a trial and error thing. Welcome though! Are you doing anything besides antibiotics for the lyme?

I am working with a integrative medicine doctor. He has me on tons of probiotics and coriolus mushroom for my immune system. I have been on abx for 6 weeks and the past few days I feel they are really doing a number on my gut.







: (The details are too gross) I told me to quit abx for 3 days and go really heavy an probiotics. I am also starting colostrum with meals this week.
Some people he does not put on abx for Lyme. He thought that would be the best route for me. (I am in the 2nd stage with arthritis throughout my joints). I hate abx but I want Lyme out before I get preg again. I will talk to him about the alternative therapies. I am haivng a hard time finding anything about alternative therapies on the net.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

*FF*-Hugs to you and your baby while you figure this one out. I don't have any advice, just







s

After more reading me and ds may have CD. (ME=blood tests plus symptoms and doing WAY better off grains, DS= has some symptoms including being thin with a bloated stomach)

Today was our first official SCD day. For me it went great. Ds (2) went to MILs today and it all fell apart. I made her a simple list of what he could and could not eat with meal ideas included. She gave him potatoes and a ton rice milk (which has sugar AND gluten!!). When I came in and potatoes were in his bowl I said, "Oh, I wrote 'NO potatoes' on the list".....She said that SHE DID NOT READ IT







: and did "not know where it went". I then said that this needs to be 100% and from now on I will just send him with food. I was about to cry I felt so frustrated.

When we went to leave I told dh what happened. He said that we would just have to only have people watch him who will follow the rules. I felt really validated after that.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Wow, I can't imagine having to worry about gluten free soap, and gluten-free glue and paint and playdough. How would you make gluten free playdough, anyway? I know there is a recipe for peanut butter playdough, but that's an edible version. Not that ds would ever eat it or play with it, LOL.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Who do we have to ask about a separate HTG forum? It would be soooooo helpful. There are so many facets to this problem, so many bugs, so many causes, so many remedies. Should we start a pming campaign to the powers that be??

I would love a forum!


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

PF Changs and Outback Steakhouse both have gluten free menus. Not the best restaurants, but it does help a little.

Samantha


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
ooo please share!

i can guess that the crust is something like appropriately soaked nuts (mmmm pecans....) and dates... i'm at a loss for the (raw?) filling though.

Well, you can do one of two things...a nut and date crust, or a nut and arrowroot topping (like a coobler almost.)

The filling (though you can do raw-I didn't) is just sweet potato or pumpkin, about a half a cup of arrowroot (instead of eggs) and coconut milk (instead of milk)-then follow your normal recipe in terms of quantities of milk and spices. Just make sure that the crust isn't exposed (only build it 3/4 of the way up the pan) so it doesn't burn.

The cobbler recipe in NT works very well ontop of the pumpkin custard. If you can do eggs, skip the arrowroot and just use the eggs.

IF you want the raw version I'll post it. I'm working on a raw pumpkin cheesecake right now. I'll let you know when I perfect it!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Could it be that he is just using the bm so effeciently that there isn't much left over? It isn't like it is high fiber or anything like that to bulk it up. Thats all I've got.

Well, that's what I keep trying to wish until my LC and others smack some sense into me. My LC fortunately is one of the greats in the field, as is my D.Ht. I am really lucky to work with the best of the best. Even if they use it effeciently (as they should-bm was made for that!) the body still produces waste. We're not seeing any of that. I'm with you though!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Wow, I can't imagine having to worry about gluten free soap, and gluten-free glue and paint and playdough. How would you make gluten free playdough, anyway? I know there is a recipe for peanut butter playdough, but that's an edible version. Not that ds would ever eat it or play with it, LOL.

I've made gf playdoh twice. Both times were flops.







DD reacts to the gluten in her playdoh even on days when she isn't licking it :eyeroll:







:

Anyone who has a good recipe for gf playdoh I am all ears.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
When we went to leave I told dh what happened. He said that we would just have to only have people watch him who will follow the rules. I felt really validated after that.

i have come to the conclusion that these sorts of major lifestyle changes require full support from dp. we couldn't have made all the changes we did without full cooperation from dh. he's so much on the bandwagon now that he's terrified of eating over at friends, family, at restaurants, etc. and he's not the one with problems!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

My dh is very supportive...but not THAT supportive! That's great Bluets!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have made this pate twice now and it turned out well. It has a mild liver flavor for those of us that don't *love* liver. You can slice this and serve as an easy snack. I even made a version without the spices for ds. It is important to use veal as the fat congeles nicely so you can slice the pate.

Pate
1/2 lb chicken livers, trimmed of membranes and fat
1/2 lb ground veal
1 cup chicken stock
2 T. chopped onion
1 clove garlic, minced
2 T baked winter squash (butternut or pumkin both good)
1/2 t. ground mustard
1/2 t. salt
dash pepper
1 bay leaf

Combine livers, chicken stock and bay leaf in med saucepan. Heat to a boil over med heat, reduce heat to low. Barely simmer, covered, until livers are tender, 6-8 min. Drain and discard bay leaf. Saute onioins and garlic until almost translucent, add salt, mustard and pepper. Add veal and saute until done. Combine all ingredients and process until smooth in a food processor. Refrigerate for a half hour. Form the pate into a 'log' in plastic wrap and refridgerate over night.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Bluets-You are lucky to have such a great DH! Mine is supportive in that he never says anything negative and would never give DS anything not approved by me. I am very lucky to have a neighbor who is very supportive, she will make us meals that are SCD when we have dinner over there. She even shows me recipes bofore she makes them for us. Best part is that she and her husband are great cooks and I have been learning a lot of new techniques from them.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--I don't have any thoughts on your LO's pooping habits, but you could try doing EC and see if that helps him poop more...the position puts a bit of pressure on their stomach to help them go and once he catches on he might get the idea of "trying" when he's in the position.

DD caught a cold three days ago and I decided to cut all non-BM out of her diet except her probiotic powder and CLO. Her eczema is definitely clearing up. So either she was reacting to something she was eating, or the sarsaparilla salve I made (and started at the same time I cut out the foods) is really helping her. I'm going to give her a couple more days without foods and then start slowly adding things back in to see what happens.

I'm thinking I don't need to worry about wheat/gluten free right at the moment, since it doesn't look like DD's eczema is related to that (since I had a Chipotle burrito the day before I stopped her foods). I don't think it would be particularly difficult for me to do (other than eating out) if I decide to do it, but hopefully it won't be necessary. I don't think either of us have symptoms of celiac, either.

I have actually done tons of traveling while on these diets and I generally do fine, but this trip it is not really going to be possible. DD & I are accompanying DH's mother, sister, and SIL to Chicago for two days and we will be eating out every meal. It is just not practical to try to bring food for this (and I guess our issues aren't severe enough to make it worth the hassle for me to do it), and I can't stick to the candida diet while eating out that much. I would be starving--I rely too much on CO for calories. I can do my own foods for Thanksgiving (and I probably mostly will since almost every dish I can think of has dairy in it) but I'll cheat on the foods...I would like to have mashed potatoes even if they have EVOO in them instead of butter and milk! I'll just bring my water kefir grains and hope for the best.

My DH is fairly supportive. He hassles me quite a bit about finding so many things wrong with myself and DD, and about the cost of the supplements (and how many of them I take), and he says I'll be on this diet forever. And he doesn't understand my frenzy about avoiding any traces of dairy. But he's supportive around family and friends and doesn't have any problem telling people what I can and can't eat and telling them not to feed DD anything.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Well, that's what I keep trying to wish until my LC and others smack some sense into me. My LC fortunately is one of the greats in the field, as is my D.Ht. I am really lucky to work with the best of the best. Even if they use it effeciently (as they should-bm was made for that!) the body still produces waste. We're not seeing any of that. I'm with you though!

I'm sure you've explored this, but what about a probiotic cultured on chickpeas? Natren Mega Dophilus is and it says it's dairy free. I haven't called the company to verify that it doesn't have trace wheat or soy, though.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i have come to the conclusion that these sorts of major lifestyle changes require full support from dp. we couldn't have made all the changes we did without full cooperation from dh. he's so much on the bandwagon now that he's terrified of eating over at friends, family, at restaurants, etc. and he's not the one with problems!


My dh is very supportive, too. I was just talking to him about SCD and he reminded me of a physiology class he had in college in which the prof showed them a cadaver. The man's intestines were completely filled with mucous and the prof said it was a result of consuming too much milk. Ick.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Bluets-You are lucky to have such a great DH!

It's only partly luck and partly the fact that I'm controlling (when it is important to me), determined, stubborn... some might even say bossy. Dh doesn't like cooking so he knows he sorta has to go along if he wants me to keep cooking for him.

There's a French saying "c'est moi qui port les pantalons" (it's I who wears the pants) that is truly a propos. He gets to take the lead in technology decisions but health and finances are my turf, though they really are all joint decisions in the end.

That pate recipes looks yummy. Might be one way for me to sneak squash AND liver into ds.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I've made gf playdoh twice. Both times were flops.







DD reacts to the gluten in her playdoh even on days when she isn't licking it :eyeroll:







:

Anyone who has a good recipe for gf playdoh I am all ears.

yet another forum! http://www.glutenfreeforum.com/index...howtopic=25621


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I'm sure you've explored this, but what about a probiotic cultured on chickpeas? Natren Mega Dophilus is and it says it's dairy free. I haven't called the company to verify that it doesn't have trace wheat or soy, though.

Dd and I have chickpea allergies, so I didn't even look too far into it. She has healed to the point of being able to handle them, but I don't want to push it for him.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Dd and I have chickpea allergies, so I didn't even look too far into it. She has healed to the point of being able to handle them, but I don't want to push it for him.

Have you checked into customprobiotics.com? They say they're dairy free but I don't know what they're originally started with...but their probiotics are very concentrated (albeit expensive) so if they were started on dairy I would think there'd still be less of it in their products than in any other brand on the market. On their website it says 1 gram of the bifidus infantis has 400 billion CFU's...the Solaray BabyLife I use has roughly 5 billion CFU's per gram.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Haven't tried to make it yet...

1/2 cup rice flour
1/2 cup maize cornflour
2 tsp cream of tartar
1/2 cup salt
1 cup water
1 Tablespoon wheat free cornflour
a few drops of food colouring

Mix all ingredients together and cook over a low heat until mixture forms a dough. Cool slightly before kneading.

Samantha


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Haven't tried to make it yet...

1/2 cup rice flour
1/2 cup maize cornflour
2 tsp cream of tartar
1/2 cup salt
1 cup water
1 Tablespoon wheat free cornflour
a few drops of food colouring

Mix all ingredients together and cook over a low heat until mixture forms a dough. Cool slightly before kneading.

Samantha

At this point I'm only willing to try a recipe someone else can attest to. I've spent too much time energy and money into gf flops


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Ii am going out of town to NYC for 3 days next week and I am torn about diet while I am away. I am going to try to go gluten free on top of SCD, but a week before a trip is not a great time to do it. I am thinking of just eating healthfully and giving myself a breather, but not confining myself to SCD. DS is not coming with me.







I just couldn't work it out. I have been pumping extra for 2 months to save up for this trip, and I think I have enough milk for him. It is hard to let go of the constant worrying about diet.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Kefir- 2 days into water kefir and my poo has firmed up very nicely, we don't talk about poo much now that Jane is away







. I let the kefir sit for 1.5 days and it is still really sweet for me. I used agave nectar for the first batch, cane sugar for the second. I have some Rapadura and molassas, would those make it less sweet?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Kefir- 2 days into water kefir and my poo has firmed up very nicely, we don't talk about poo much now that Jane is away







. I let the kefir sit for 1.5 days and it is still really sweet for me. I used agave nectar for the first batch, cane sugar for the second. I have some Rapadura and molassas, would those make it less sweet?

take this with some salt - not a water kefir expert here...

could you just use less sweetener?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Dd and I have chickpea allergies, so I didn't even look too far into it. She has healed to the point of being able to handle them, but I don't want to push it for him.

ff - my dd was only going every 8 days when I hit my wit's end. At that point I was completely dairy, wheat, egg, and soy free and following SCD. I finally decided to try some probiotics even though I know how the ones that aren't grown on dairy still start as as dairy. So, I started doing BabyLife every am and Natren Bifido Factor every pm, and after 2 days she started pooping at least once a day, and sometimes twice, and has ever since. It is normal except that it doesn't have the seeds/curds (still working on that). Every now and then I miss a dose for whatever reason, and she still goes UNLESS I miss 2 days in a row (only let this happen once). May be a no-go for you because of the chickpea issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
ff - my dd was only going every 8 days when I hit my wit's end. At that point I was completely dairy, wheat, egg, and soy free and following SCD. I finally decided to try some probiotics even though I know how the ones that aren't grown on dairy still start as as dairy. So, I started doing BabyLife every am and Natren Bifido Factor every pm, and after 2 days she started pooping at least once a day, and sometimes twice, and has ever since. It is normal except that it doesn't have the seeds/curds (still working on that). Every now and then I miss a dose for whatever reason, and she still goes UNLESS I miss 2 days in a row (only let this happen once). May be a no-go for you because of the chickpea issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Would this work with a 15 month old? DS has the every 7-9 days pooping, too.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Kefir- 2 days into water kefir and my poo has firmed up very nicely, we don't talk about poo much now that Jane is away







. I let the kefir sit for 1.5 days and it is still really sweet for me. I used agave nectar for the first batch, cane sugar for the second. I have some Rapadura and molassas, would those make it less sweet?

How much sweetener do you use? I use 4 Tbsp/per quart of liquid. Usually it takes 36-48 hours for it to be somewhat sour. Also, the more grains you have in it the faster they will eat up the sugar. Rapadura works fine although I didn't notice a difference in sweetness between that and agave nectar. I would molasses would give it a pretty strong flavor but I haven't tried it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn* 
Would this work with a 15 month old? DS has the every 7-9 days pooping, too.

My DD has never gone that long between poops, but she was only pooping roughly every 3 days...after I added CLO and CO to her diet she started going every day. She's also been going even more frequently (often more than once a day) since I upped her probiotic intake.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How much sweetener do you use? I use 4 Tbsp/per quart of liquid. Usually it takes 36-48 hours for it to be somewhat sour. Also, the more grains you have in it the faster they will eat up the sugar. Rapadura works fine although I didn't notice a difference in sweetness between that and agave nectar. I would molasses would give it a pretty strong flavor but I haven't tried it.

Ahh, I will try less sweetner, and leaving the grains in for longer. Making kefir takes practice just like everything else...


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Ii am going out of town to NYC for 3 days next week and I am torn about diet while I am away. I am going to try to go gluten free on top of SCD, but a week before a trip is not a great time to do it. I am thinking of just eating healthfully and giving myself a breather, but not confining myself to SCD. DS is not coming with me.







I just couldn't work it out. I have been pumping extra for 2 months to save up for this trip, and I think I have enough milk for him. It is hard to let go of the constant worrying about diet.









s


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
ff - my dd was only going every 8 days when I hit my wit's end. At that point I was completely dairy, wheat, egg, and soy free and following SCD. I finally decided to try some probiotics even though I know how the ones that aren't grown on dairy still start as as dairy. So, I started doing BabyLife every am and Natren Bifido Factor every pm, and after 2 days she started pooping at least once a day, and sometimes twice, and has ever since. It is normal except that it doesn't have the seeds/curds (still working on that). Every now and then I miss a dose for whatever reason, and she still goes UNLESS I miss 2 days in a row (only let this happen once). May be a no-go for you because of the chickpea issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

WHen this was happening, did it start at birth? When she went, what was it like? How much was there?

I know a probiotic will make a difference, but his dairy allergy is so severe, and I don't want to chance things that we have tested allergic to in this family already. I may need to just suck it up though. I don't know which would be worse, getting probiotics that he's allergic to, or not getting any at all.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
WHen this was happening, did it start at birth? When she went, what was it like? How much was there?

I know a probiotic will make a difference, but his dairy allergy is so severe, and I don't want to chance things that we have tested allergic to in this family already. I may need to just suck it up though. I don't know which would be worse, getting probiotics that he's allergic to, or not getting any at all.

Some crazy ideas, perhaps: What if you tried to give him plain water kefir? I understand if you don't want to pump extra milk to make BM kefir. I know its *really* early, but what about growing water kefir in prune juice and giving him a spoonful?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Nolansmum, I am in NYC. If I can help you in any way while you are here, give me a shout. I am not doing SCD, but maybe I can help in some way. You are always welcome for dinner.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

DD2 had some severe constipation a few times. She was young -- under 18 months I would say. This really was constipation, and not just going a few days without pooping. She was in real pain. I saw a therapist for a treatment for me, who sold sold me Grainfield probiotic. I gave DD as much as I could get into her (2-3 t?, if that?) and she pooped shortly after that. Course, I don't know if the ingredients are problematic for any of you (oats, grains, etc), but just as far as a probiotic helping with this stuff...


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
WHen this was happening, did it start at birth? When she went, what was it like? How much was there?

I know a probiotic will make a difference, but his dairy allergy is so severe, and I don't want to chance things that we have tested allergic to in this family already. I may need to just suck it up though. I don't know which would be worse, getting probiotics that he's allergic to, or not getting any at all.

After the meconium passed, she had one normal poop (with curds/seeds) and then the pattern of rarely pooping started. So, I guess the technical answer is it started about one week after birth, though for the first month to a month and a half, she would go every 4-5 days. Then at about 6 weeks (I'm going off memory here - I'm a work and don't have my poop log in front of me







) it moved to about every 6-8 days. When she did go, it was just a normal amount (actually a tad bit less than she has on a daily basis now), normal in consistency and color for ebf babies, but no curds or seeds. I was the opposite of you - I had a major oversupply issue, and I think that contributed to the first normal poop and then the progressive worsening of dd's condition (too much lactose, etc). I use my first dd as a baseline, who had absolutely no food/digestive/immune issues for the first 2 years of life and had textbook poops and was the happiest baby you've ever met. Of course, I was the healthiest I've ever been while I was pregnant with her, and I was the sickest I've ever been (constant sinus infection) while pregnant with this one. If only I'd known then what I know now . . .

The one thing I know for sure after 5 months of all this is that each little body is slightly different, so I don't mean to imply that what worked for us will work for you. Plus, I don't feel that dd and I are anywhere close to "completely healed," just that we've reached a steady state where at least she poos. But, here is one example from a few weeks ago that made me believe the probiotics were really helping. I had to travel to California for a week for work (took the kiddos with me thanks to my Mom, who was kind enough to come and watch them during the day). I was at a conference where all the food was provided and we worked through most meals, so I was really limited in my food flexibility. I questioned everything, but I know I got some butter and eggs in stuff that they told me didn't have it. Well, sure enough, dd reacted, but she still pooped.







. She was very fussy and returned to her vomiting pattern from before I cut out eggs and all dairy, but she still pooped. I credit the probiotics for that.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

what about this brand: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/products...l?Source=Gprob

it claims to be dairy-free with a human source (soyfree too)...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks, Bluets. I am looking for a more bifidus dominant one. Great catch though!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I was begining to get worried about our lack of poop talk arround here.







Glad we are back to normal.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I was begining to get worried about our lack of poop talk arround here.







Glad we are back to normal.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

What are some causes of hyperactivity in children? DD is acting hyper quite a bit lately, especially at naptime and bedtime.

firefaery--do you think your kids had yeast overgrowth? Did you ever do any anti-fungals with them, or did you do enzymes in between meals?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

MAMAS! If you'd like to share your opinion about a Healing the Gut forum, please post to my thread in Questions and Suggestions. Ms. Mom has graciously responded to it.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=555439


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Not poop talk







but a question anyway:
Do you all remember talking about the cal/mag thing and how it relates to leg cramps a while back? We talked about it on the Nutrition 101 thread too.

SUpposedly mag helps with leg cramps. I must be backward. Whenever I take mag citrate before bed, I GET leg cramps during the night and they're becoming increasingly more painful.

I know this must mean that my cal/mag balance is off right?

Anyone remember anything about this?

And how does potassium fit in to all of it?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
What are some causes of hyperactivity in children? DD is acting hyper quite a bit lately, especially at naptime and bedtime.

firefaery--do you think your kids had yeast overgrowth? Did you ever do any anti-fungals with them, or did you do enzymes in between meals?

Ooooh yes! We had yeast, and lots of it. We did enzymes, liquid oxygen, probiotics, diet stuff....we did alot.

Ds gets HUGELY hyper to the point that I have to call in backup to keep things civil. My father is a true godsend! It's always a response to allergen exposure, environmental or dietary. Not saying there aren't other reasons it could happen (there are many cranial issues that can result in hyperactivity, bacterial overgrowth, parasites etc.) but that's our trigger.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Ooooh yes! We had yeast, and lots of it. We did enzymes, liquid oxygen, probiotics, diet stuff....we did alot.

Ds gets HUGELY hyper to the point that I have to call in backup to keep things civil. My father is a true godsend! It's always a response to allergen exposure, environmental or dietary. Not saying there aren't other reasons it could happen (there are many cranial issues that can result in hyperactivity, bacterial overgrowth, parasites etc.) but that's our trigger.

How would you do enzymes in between meals with a mostly EBF baby? Just try to fit them in between feedings as much as possible? I would probably just use Candex since I'm not sure if proteases would be too much for her little gut.

What did you use for liquid oxygen? Is that anything like very diluted food grade hydrogen peroxide? I've heard that is very effective for killing off yeast. It's hard to find a natural anti-fungal that I feel comfortable using on a 10 month old, but at the same time she clearly needs something herself as what I'm doing isn't helping her at all. I did just up her probiotics to 25 billion CFU's a day so we'll see if that helps at all.

I never can figure out what causes any sort of reaction in DD...apparently I'm not observant enough or something. I guess I need to start keeping a log of foods eaten by both of us and her behaviors and symptoms.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Some questions on my mind:

Will beneficial bacteria make it to the lower intestine of if it's given powdered as opposed to in capsule? I just assumed that it did (and my baby can't swallow capsules anyway), but now I'm wondering if that's really true. Or do only some survive?

If you follow SCD, how hard-core are you? Do you make all your own nut milks? Are there any safe brands?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I never can figure out what causes any sort of reaction in DD...apparently I'm not observant enough or something. I guess I need to start keeping a log of foods eaten by both of us and her behaviors and symptoms.

I think you are being too hard on yourself! It is tough trying to figure out reactions. I keep a food/poo/behavior log and I keep studying it trying to figure out a pattern.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Nolansmum, I am in NYC. If I can help you in any way while you are here, give me a shout. I am not doing SCD, but maybe I can help in some way. You are always welcome for dinner.









Thanks for the offer, that is very sweet!







: I am pretty much booked up for work. I am already food obsessed(aren't we all!), I never eat out here because I don't want to take chances. My trips to NYC are always planned around going to my favorite restaurants, we lived there while we were in school, so I feel like I have strong emotional attatchment to these places where we spent many great times with missed friends.

We are playing a free concert at Trinity Church at 1 pm, Friday November 17th if you want to come, I'd love to meet you! http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/music/?concerts


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Not poop talk







but a question anyway:
Do you all remember talking about the cal/mag thing and how it relates to leg cramps a while back? We talked about it on the Nutrition 101 thread too.

SUpposedly mag helps with leg cramps. I must be backward. Whenever I take mag citrate before bed, I GET leg cramps during the night and they're becoming increasingly more painful.

I know this must mean that my cal/mag balance is off right?

Anyone remember anything about this?

And how does potassium fit in to all of it?

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C466089.html -- leg cramps are caused by an imbalance in your electrolytes, most notably calcium, magnesium and potassium.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I would like to try milk thistle for liver support. What form do is best to use? I found caplets and also an alcohol free extract. And, in what dosage.Thanks!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I think you are being too hard on yourself! It is tough trying to figure out reactions. I keep a food/poo/behavior log and I keep studying it trying to figure out a pattern.

Oh boy have I btdt! I'm currently writing our story of how I came to realize that dd is metal toxic and it's making me realize just how many hours I spent poring over those meticulously kept, mind-cramping logs. Ughhh.








caedmyn (and you too nolansmum - I know you're doing it too!)

We do the best we can, trying one thing at a time.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I would like to try milk thistle for liver support. What form do is best to use? I found caplets and also an alcohol free extract. And, in what dosage.Thanks!

I have some of this for dd. I'm pretty sure the adult dosage is double her dose but I need to look.

I'll check for you in the a.m. and lyk.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C466089.html -- leg cramps are caused by an imbalance in your electrolytes, most notably calcium, magnesium and potassium.

Thanks.

Anybody remember the *left leg, right leg* test? If cramps are in your left leg then _________, if they're in you're right, then _________.










I sort of remember *Pattyla* posting this. (?) Was it you Patty?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I would like to try milk thistle for liver support. What form do is best to use? I found caplets and also an alcohol free extract. And, in what dosage.Thanks!

I just do an infusion...pour 2 c. of boiling water over 1 oz of milk thistle seed and let it sit, covered, for not more than 30 minutes. I add a big pinch of spearmint for better flavor, too. I drink 2 cups a day of this.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I just do an infusion...pour 2 c. of boiling water over 1 oz of milk thistle seed and let it sit, covered, for not more than 30 minutes. I add a big pinch of spearmint for better flavor, too. I drink 2 cups a day of this.

Thank you. I assume this is the prefered way since it is using a whole food?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Thanks.

Anybody remember the *left leg, right leg* test? If cramps are in your left leg then _________, if they're in you're right, then _________.










I sort of remember *Pattyla* posting this. (?) Was it you Patty?

Yea it was me. I think left leg was calcium and right was mag but I'm not sure anymore. (darn dyslexia!) It was also not just that you were deficient, but having too much of one can also cause leg cramps.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I just do an infusion...pour 2 c. of boiling water over 1 oz of milk thistle seed and let it sit, covered, for not more than 30 minutes. I add a big pinch of spearmint for better flavor, too. I drink 2 cups a day of this.

Does the spearmint help? DD would not take the milk thistle because of the taste. We switched her to Taurine.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Yea it was me. I think left leg was calcium and right was mag but I'm not sure anymore. (darn dyslexia!) It was also not just that you were deficient, but having too much of one can also cause leg cramps.

Thanks. I didn't realize too much could also cause cramps. Too bad, cause it does help me sleep.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate-too much of one (mag in your case?) simply means not enough of another. It's a balancing act. If I were you I'd start supplementing potassium and keep up with the mag. Let us know how it goes!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Annikate-too much of one (mag in your case?) simply means not enough of another. It's a balancing act. If I were you I'd start supplementing potassium and keep up with the mag. Let us know how it goes!

What would you recommend for potassium?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
What would you recommend for potassium?

Google high potassium foods. Your rda is 2000-3000 a day. You can buy potassium pills that have 99 mg. Not sure why anyone would even bother. I spent a long time in wf's trying to find a potassium suppliment since so many of the high potassium foods are off our list.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Some questions on my mind:
If you follow SCD, how hard-core are you? Do you make all your own nut milks? Are there any safe brands?

In the beginning I was strict and cheated one time with a teeeny tiny piece of pizza crust.

The reaction dd had to that was horrible. From then on I followed the diet to the letter (well, except for a couple of supplements like B-12 and magnesium citrate.) I could also tell that these supps had *illegals* in them at first but their benefits outweighed the negatives.

About 4 months in, I tried some organic, natural chips (taro root, sweet potatoes, beets) and threw my guts up all night long.









It has only been in the last couple of months that I have branched out to eating other things.

My *expansion* if you will, began with chocolate.







Then I tried soaked grains (not really a fan, but I'll eat them once in a while) and now I'm eating lots of other things without problems.









I'll never go back to eating the crap that I once did though.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Google high potassium foods. Your rda is 2000-3000 a day. You can buy potassium pills that have 99 mg. Not sure why anyone would even bother. I spent a long time in wf's trying to find a potassium suppliment since so many of the high potassium foods are off our list.

So do you just try to get that much from foods or do you supplement?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
So do you just try to get that much from foods or do you supplement?

Yeah, I was looking at lists of high potassium foods and although quite a few of the ones I eat a lot are on the list, those are not enough to get me even to the RDA. Meats are pretty high in potassium and I eat a lot of meat, and I forgot what veggies were fairly high that I eat, but the really high stuff (like potatoes--almost a 1000 mg in one skin-on potato!) I don't eat.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Annikate--.will you look at your DD's custom probiotics and tell me what strains are in there? They gave firefaery and me the same recommendation and I'm curious as to what they recommended for your DD.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Annikate-too much of one (mag in your case?) simply means not enough of another. It's a balancing act. If I were you I'd start supplementing potassium and keep up with the mag. Let us know how it goes!

You could try getting more calcium in your diet, too, and see what happens. There are several herbal teas/infusions that are really high in calcium (alfalfa, nettle, red clover, red raspberry...I'm sure there's others, too).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

milk thistle--I don't know if infusions are the preferred way of taking it or not, it's just what I prefer. The spearmint does help the taste although I don't mind the taste of plain milk thistle--it's just kind of bland. Annikate, you would probably need to add more spearmint than I do to get your DD to drink it, or try other nice-tasting herbs with it like red raspberry leaf or rosehips. My DD will drink it but she'll drink small amounts of anything I'm drinking, no matter how horrible I think it tastes!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yes, tinkering all around will help. Mushrooms are high in potassium, as are strawberries...there are tons of food sources. I'm bummed. When I first started working with Natural Vitality the had a product that was a balanced blend of cal/mag/potassium. I haven't gotten any good answers as to why they dropped it.

Ditto on the infusions caedmyn mentioned.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Milk thistle-I just put it into my smoothie. painless.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Milk thistle-I just put it into my smoothie. painless.

The stuff from Kirkman's must be really strong because dd could detect it in anything.







And she's usually a good sport about taking supps.

I never tried it myself.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Help! I started SCD 3 days ago and restarted my Lyme antibiotics and now I am having panic-attack feelings and go through little bouts of mild depression for the past 2 days!!







: Is this die-off of yeast and Lyme together? An allergic reaction? I started hard cheese and eggs about a week ago. I had quit them before because my IgG blood test said that I was allergic. I never noticed anything when I elimated and challeged milk before though.

Please help me! I hate feeling this way!
Jen


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Help! I started SCD 3 days ago and restarted my Lyme antibiotics and now I am having panic-attack feelings and go through little bouts of mild depression for the past 2 days!!







: Is this die-off of yeast and Lyme together? An allergic reaction? I started hard cheese and eggs about a week ago. I had quit them before because my IgG blood test said that I was allergic. I never noticed anything when I elimated and challeged milk before though.

Please help me! I hate feeling this way!
Jen

This happened to me during die-off, too, and it was bad. For me, it lasted about 2 weeks, though I still have some bouts on and off. The most effective thing I found was taking LOTS of vitamin c. I used 2 different forms - 1) straight sodium ascorbate (I use the one by NOW) with a separate bioflavanoid (I think I use Life Extension) and 2) amla.

It got so bad at times that I thought I was going to jump out of my skin. I also found that I started picking fights with DH - I think I just needed an outlet to get the agitation out. I have never had panic attacks or serious depression, so this was a whole new experience for me, and not a good one. I also found myself repeating "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" a whole lot.

Good luck!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
After the meconium passed, she had one normal poop (with curds/seeds) and then the pattern of rarely pooping started. So, I guess the technical answer is it started about one week after birth, though for the first month to a month and a half, she would go every 4-5 days. Then at about 6 weeks (I'm going off memory here - I'm a work and don't have my poop log in front of me







) it moved to about every 6-8 days.

You have a poop log? Wow, that takes dedication. I wish I had kept something, and had known more about what baby poop should look like. I might have headed of ds's problems early on. You're such a great mama!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
So do you just try to get that much from foods or do you supplement?

At this point I do not suppliment. I also don't count mg's. I just go by how I feel. I'm probably still low but there is only so much I can do if you kwim. I am working harder than ever on getting bone broths into us though. Should be easier now that winter is here. Soup sounds better on a cold day than a hot one.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Help! I started SCD 3 days ago and restarted my Lyme antibiotics and now I am having panic-attack feelings and go through little bouts of mild depression for the past 2 days!!







: Is this die-off of yeast and Lyme together? An allergic reaction? I started hard cheese and eggs about a week ago. I had quit them before because my IgG blood test said that I was allergic. I never noticed anything when I elimated and challeged milk before though.

Please help me! I hate feeling this way!
Jen

What helped me was supporting my liver. I take two suppliments to support liver detox. K-10 Metacrin-DX and K-11 Bilemin. They really work well and I get feeling better within a few hours of starting them up again. (I keep stopping taking them because I think I don't need them anymore.







: ) Both are by apex energetics

In fact I need to order more now...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

How do you do an infusion again? Oh, and where can you get milk thistle to make an infusion with? It's good for the liver as well.


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## SweetAfton (Sep 23, 2006)

I have a question about raw milk. What is it exactly? Is it milk straight from the cow? Or is there something done to it? Some of our neighbors have cattle, but they don't sell milk to the public. If I were to ask them for raw milk, what would I be getting?

Thanks!


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
What helped me was supporting my liver. I take two suppliments to support liver detox. K-10 Metacrin-DX and K-11 Bilemin. They really work well and I get feeling better within a few hours of starting them up again. (I keep stopping taking them because I think I don't need them anymore.







: ) Both are by apex energetics

In fact I need to order more now...

'
Are these both ok for breastfeeding? I know I need to focus on my liver - just haven't had the brainpower to deal with it yet. I haven't tested, but I suspect that I have hit ketosis at least some during my time on SCD (especially since I've lost a lot of weight - albeit postpartum - and without trying).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

This is a recipe that MT posted for potassium broth. It has SCD illegals but you are not actually eating the potato skin, so many here may be able to tolerate it.

Quote:

*Potassium broth*
Use ONLY organic vegetables, otherwise sprays will be concentrated.

I only use what I grow myself. I chop everything really fine to reduce cooking time...

I have two different recipes. We grow our own potatoes and carrots, and if they are peeled, then the peelings are kept and used all the time as base for soup stock, as they are high in potassium
Whatever size the pot I try and get this balance. I decide the depth I want, using 2/3rd the height of the pot.

1/2 the pot = potato peelings;carrot peelings and tops;beetroot and tops.
next 1/4 = chopped onions; some cloves of garlic. (If I'm feeling an infection come on, lots of garlic)
Last quarter celery including green leaves, parsley incl stalks, and assorted dark greens including edible weeds. C

If you want 2 or more Habanero or Scotch Bonnet peppers, but I hate them. Some people swear by it, but I'm not into rocket fuel in my soup.

Cover with decent water and simmer 1/2 - 1 hour. Turn off and leave to cool.

Strain.

A more precise recipe would include something like:
3 to 4 Carrots, 3 Stalks Celery, 1/2 Bunch Parsley, 2 Potatoes with skins, 1/2 Head Cabbage, 1 Onion, and 1/2 Bunch Broccoli.

I sometimes add in a leek.

Simmer covered 30 minutes. Strain and discard solids.
If you want, add 2 teasp. Bragg Liquid Aminos or 1 teasp. Miso. Store in the fridge, covered.

Potassium broth recipes are NOT an exact science and can be modified to suit tastes. Some people for instance, cannot stand celery taste in any form.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SweetAfton* 
I have a question about raw milk. What is it exactly? Is it milk straight from the cow? Or is there something done to it? Some of our neighbors have cattle, but they don't sell milk to the public. If I were to ask them for raw milk, what would I be getting?

Thanks!

Mama, you are so lucky!!! Yup, raw milk is just straight up from the cow. Are they willing to give/sell it to you?


----------



## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Mama, you are so lucky!!! Yup, raw milk is just straight up from the cow. Are they willing to give/sell it to you?









:

Read about the benefits at www.realmilk.com As long as they are sanitary in their milk handing it will be a great benefit to your diet. Epecially yogurt made form raw milk--that's like hitting the enzyme and probiotic jackpot!!!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
'
Are these both ok for breastfeeding? I know I need to focus on my liver - just haven't had the brainpower to deal with it yet. I haven't tested, but I suspect that I have hit ketosis at least some during my time on SCD (especially since I've lost a lot of weight - albeit postpartum - and without trying).

According to my chiro it is. I honestly don't remember if I looked up the ingredients or not on this one. (I usually do.)


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
How do you do an infusion again? Oh, and where can you get milk thistle to make an infusion with? It's good for the liver as well.

You can get milk thistle seed at HFS (check the bulk section if they have one) and online...www.mountainroseherbs.com has good prices.

Infusions: use 1 oz of dried herbs. For roots and bark, pour 2 c. boiling water over herbs and steep, covered, for at least 8 hours. For leaves, pour 4 c. boiling water over herbs and steep, covered, for at least 4 hours. For seeds, pour 2 c. boiling water over herbs and steep, covered, for not more than 30 minutes.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

How do you measure 1 oz?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
How do you measure 1 oz?

I just bought an 8 oz scale at the HFS







An ounce of milk thistle is roughly two Tbsp...when I make it tomorrow I'll measure it and see exactly how much it is. An ounce of a leaf is roughly one cup, and I think an ounce of bark is roughly two Tbsp, also.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

my personal favorite stuffing:

1/2 diced onion
1/2 large Portobello mushroom or several small raw mushrooms diced
1 clove garlic minced
1 ounce almond flour
2 spinach leaves shredded
1/2 red sweet pepper, diced
oil
Heat oil in skillet and add vegetables and garlic.
Cook until tender.
Stir in almond flour, lower heat and cook, stirring until almond flour browns.

Variations: add sage, thyme or other single poultry spices, diced dried fruit and/or nut pieces.

I promised this a couple of days age. It's from pecanbread so it's SCD legal. We love it.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

I gave dd some pineapple and cantaloupe the other day. (I have since realized that those fruits can be very "reactive".) Anyway, she got a rash around her mouth and the skin around her eyes turned red. Also, she got dark circles under her eyes. I thought those kinds of allergic reactions were IgE mediated. Not sure what to make of it since our food intolerances have been (at least, I think due to the leaky gut stuff) IgG mediated. I just know that I am beyond frustrated with all of this and I really wish I *knew* something. Anything.

So, for those of you who have gone to see an allergist (and since this allergist is an MD), do you mention any of your knowledge/concerns about IgG allergies and leaky gut and all these non-mainstream ideas, or should I just ask for dd to be tested?

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm also ordering some Bifidus today because I've been giving dd Reuteri and Culturelle, but she's still mostly bf (even though she's 15 mths old) and I wonder if I haven't done some inadvertent damage







: I just don't know if I'm doing the right things and I feel like I'm failing dd by "experimenting" on her.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry you're having such a hard time! That can be an IgG reaction too.

I never saw an allergist, so I can't answer. All of our tests were done by our docs. FWIW my ds was blood tested and allergic to both pineapple and cantaloupe-both IgG.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
I gave dd some pineapple and cantaloupe the other day. (I have since realized that those fruits can be very "reactive".) Anyway, she got a rash around her mouth and the skin around her eyes turned red. Also, she got dark circles under her eyes. I thought those kinds of allergic reactions were IgE mediated. Not sure what to make of it since our food intolerances have been (at least, I think due to the leaky gut stuff) IgG mediated. I just know that I am beyond frustrated with all of this and I really wish I *knew* something. Anything.

So, for those of you who have gone to see an allergist (and since this allergist is an MD), do you mention any of your knowledge/concerns about IgG allergies and leaky gut and all these non-mainstream ideas, or should I just ask for dd to be tested?

On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm also ordering some Bifidus today because I've been giving dd Reuteri and Culturelle, but she's still mostly bf (even though she's 15 mths old) and I wonder if I haven't done some inadvertent damage







: I just don't know if I'm doing the right things and I feel like I'm failing dd by "experimenting" on her.










Dd's allergist (who turned out to be a quack but at least agreed to do the testing) actually drew me a diagram and explained the leaky gut theory - even though he didn't call it that. I wouldn't have mentioned it if he hadn't. We went to him for one thing and for one thing only: To have dd tested. We opted for the RAST because it seemed easier on dd.

Are you positive it was the fruits that she reacted to and not something that *you* ate?

Good luck on Monday.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yogurt makers...a question. Is there any method to the madness of heating your medium on the stove top? I use a dehydrator which keeps excellent temp to make yogurt. Is there a reason I couldn't add my culture to the medium and stick it in the dehydrator? Room temp certainly won't kill the bugs, it would just take a bit longer to come to temp. This would work, right? I mean, I'd still end up with yogurt at the end. Help me make my life easier, please? Are you actually gaining anything by heating the medium, removing a bit, dissolving culture and combining?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

x-posted:

So many people ask about different brands of supplements here. Do you think it would be worth creating a sticky of accepetable brands? You know Sodium Ascorbate: brand X,Y,and Z. CLO: brand X,Y,Z. Probiotics etc... Have we done that already? I'm thinking no, as I'm getting alot of pm's asking this question. It would be alot easier if the info were readily available-wouldn't it?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
x-posted:

So many people ask about different brands of supplements here. Do you think it would be worth creating a sticky of accepetable brands? You know Sodium Ascorbate: brand X,Y,and Z. CLO: brand X,Y,Z. Probiotics etc... Have we done that already? I'm thinking no, as I'm getting alot of pm's asking this question. It would be alot easier if the info were readily available-wouldn't it?

we don't have that anywhere but it would probably be very helpful for a lot of people.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Yogurt makers...a question. Is there any method to the madness of heating your medium on the stove top? I use a dehydrator which keeps excellent temp to make yogurt. Is there a reason I couldn't add my culture to the medium and stick it in the dehydrator? Room temp certainly won't kill the bugs, it would just take a bit longer to come to temp. This would work, right? I mean, I'd still end up with yogurt at the end. Help me make my life easier, please? Are you actually gaining anything by heating the medium, removing a bit, dissolving culture and combining?

That should work with yogurt as a starter. That has never occurred to me but with raw yogurt it shouldn't be a problem. Stick it in at any point really.

With powder the issue would be getting it to dissolve well. It's harder to monitor it in a half gallon or more of fluid than it is in a cup full.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 








Dd's allergist (who turned out to be a quack but at least agreed to do the testing) actually drew me a diagram and explained the leaky gut theory - even though he didn't call it that. I wouldn't have mentioned it if he hadn't. We went to him for one thing and for one thing only: To have dd tested. We opted for the RAST because it seemed easier on dd.

Are you positive it was the fruits that she reacted to and not something that *you* ate?

Good luck on Monday.

DD and I and avoid the exact same things. The only thing we'd eaten out of the ordinary was the cantaloupe and pineapple, but who knows.

Thanks for your comments on the allergist. My goal is also just testing-I'm not interested in meds.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Sorry you're having such a hard time! That can be an IgG reaction too.

I never saw an allergist, so I can't answer. All of our tests were done by our docs. FWIW my ds was blood tested and allergic to both pineapple and cantaloupe-both IgG.

Thx. I'm really hoping we can get the bloodtest (ELISA, right?).


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
That should work with yogurt as a starter. That has never occurred to me but with raw yogurt it shouldn't be a problem. Stick it in at any point really.

With powder the issue would be getting it to dissolve well. It's harder to monitor it in a half gallon or more of fluid than it is in a cup full.


Drat. We're making almond and coconut yogurt. I guess I could just dissolve the starter then and proceed. I've been slackin as I hate the whole prcess of stove top heating. We'll see what happens!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

ff and caedmyn and those who know about teas . . .
What would you recommend for sleep?
I'd like to try some instead of the magnesium for a while and see what happens.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
ff and caedmyn and those who know about teas . . .
What would you recommend for sleep?
I'd like to try some instead of the magnesium for a while and see what happens.

I haven't tried anything but I think camomile (sp?) is supposed to be good for sleeping...you might want to google it though as I'm not sure. I need to try that or magnesium for DD as she is really having trouble going to sleep lately, even for naps...but DH thinks I'm "drugging" her if I give her anything.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Drat. We're making almond and coconut yogurt. I guess I could just dissolve the starter then and proceed. I've been slackin as I hate the whole prcess of stove top heating. We'll see what happens!

Let me know if I works--I want to do that, too. I think the reason they heat milk initially for yogurt-making iis to sterilize it.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I missed your issue Annikate but for Frederick I've had decent luck with slighty warmed milk sweetened with date sugar. But you're probably off of milk.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
I missed your issue Annikate but for Frederick I've had decent luck with slighty warmed milk sweetened with date sugar. But you're probably off of milk.

No, this is really more for me than dd. I'm having trouble getting a good cal/mag potassium balance. It gets totally thrown off when I take mag citrate but the mag helps me sleep (at least for a little while!)

Problem is, I get severe calf cramps every time I take that magnesium and so I thought I'd see if anyone had any good recs for a tea that can help w/sleep.

I've tried chammomile but it doesn't seem to do much.

ETA: just subscribed to your newsletter! I used the name Annikate.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
No, this is really more for me than dd. I'm having trouble getting a good cal/mag potassium balance. It gets totally thrown off when I take mag citrate but the mag helps me sleep (at least for a little while!)

Problem is, I get severe calf cramps every time I take that magnesium and so I thought I'd see if anyone had any good recs for a tea that can help w/sleep.

I've tried chammomile but it doesn't seem to do much.

ETA: just subscribed to your newsletter! I used the name Annikate.









If spasms are your issue I'd do skullcap and in tincture form. It won't solve your imbalance, but it should give you relief. Skullcap is a muscle relaxer. Good stuff.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Chamomile is in the ragweed family-so for you allergic ladies you may want to take that into consideration. Many can tolerate it, but if you have known ragweed allergies avoid it like the plague.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

To all those dealing with reflux in a baby: Any good links for information about it? I have a friend whose 7 week old has severe reflux, and is on zantac for it. The baby is having a hard time sleeping, and is generally very fussy. She has cut out dairy, but I don't think she's tried other allergens. She also has a two year old, so I know she doesn't have a lot of time to research this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chinese Pistache: Pineapple can cause problems because of both the acidity and the protease enzymes in it (can't remember the exact name -- maybe bromelane?). My hubby has both food intolerances and also know oral allergic reactions where his throat closes up. Pineapple and several nuts do this to him. Cantelope often has mold in it, and is not allowed on many anti-yeast diets, so that could account for the dark circles.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 

Chinese Pistache: Pineapple can cause problems because of both the acidity and the protease enzymes in it (can't remember the exact name -- maybe bromelane?). My hubby has both food intolerances and also know oral allergic reactions where his throat closes up. Pineapple and several nuts do this to him. Cantelope often has mold in it, and is not allowed on many anti-yeast diets, so that could account for the dark circles.

Thank you for this information. I bathed her tonight and saw that the eczema under her arms and behind her knees had flared up as well as on her face. Previous to eating the pineapple (and we both ate it







: ) she was almost completely clear. At least it was a clear reaction. I almost never eat pineapple (had it at mil's house and then, took home the leftovers, duh!) so she got a two day double dose of it. I'm really anxious to see what the allergy tests show.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

*Craniosacral Therapy*
DS had his 3rd session yesterday and as soon as we walked in the door the therapist noticed a huge difference, his hair is shiny and fluffy (better vitamin and mineral absorbtion)and his rash is getting better. He went through a growth spurt last week after a week of stomach flu (a release from his first session)and then another of low apatite. We have also noticed he more aware of his surroundings, peoples feelings, he has a bunch of new facial expressions, he is forming new sounds, and a couple times a day he is quiet enough to nurse and snuggle not just bounce around and do a fly by nursing. We discussed his puffy allergy eyes, which he has always had, and I acknowleged that we may need to find nother home for our cats. Her mom might be interested in taking them!

We have a long way to go but I am so thankful to have found a practitioner that I can collaborate with.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
To all those dealing with reflux in a baby: Any good links for information about it? I have a friend whose 7 week old has severe reflux, and is on zantac for it. The baby is having a hard time sleeping, and is generally very fussy. She has cut out dairy, but I don't think she's tried other allergens. She also has a two year old, so I know she doesn't have a lot of time to research this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

DD's reflux (and severe sleep issues) are what brought us here.

Her reflux did not go away completely until I eliminated wheat from my diet and it took 8 weeks.

I'd advise her to keep all dairy out and all wheat/gluten out for at least 8 weeks and see if it helps.

We tried 3 different types of medications and they only made things worse. If I could go back and do it over I never would have given her any meds in the first place.

Maybe you can steer her toward the SCD?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
*Craniosacral Therapy*
DS had his 3rd session yesterday and as soon as we walked in the door the therapist noticed a huge difference, his hair is shiny and fluffy (better vitamin and mineral absorbtion)and his rash is getting better. He went through a growth spurt last week after a week of stomach flu (a release from his first session)and then another of low apatite. We have also noticed he more aware of his surroundings, peoples feelings, he has a bunch of new facial expressions, he is forming new sounds, and a couple times a day he is quiet enough to nurse and snuggle not just bounce around and do a fly by nursing. We discussed his puffy allergy eyes, which he has always had, and I acknowleged that we may need to find nother home for our cats. Her mom might be interested in taking them!

We have a long way to go but I am so thankful to have found a practitioner that I can collaborate with.

Yay! Sounds like this therapist is doing great things for ds!

DD has another session tomorrow (she's down to once a month) but I think I"m going to skip her tomorrow and have myself be the *patient* for a change.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok folks, we are at our wits end trying to get these herbs into dd. She doesn't want to eat apple sauce 2x a day with bitter herbs in it (who can blame her really) She has reactions to most other foods. Pear sauce doesn't cover the flavor nearly as well as apple sauce. She hates swallowing the pills. We are all going nuts. HELP! How do you convince a nearly 3 year old that it is in her best interest to do something she doesn't want to do (and be respectful of her in the process). We have another month of these herbs left (only 1x a day starting tuesday at least.)


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Ok folks, we are at our wits end trying to get these herbs into dd. She doesn't want to eat apple sauce 2x a day with bitter herbs in it (who can blame her really) She has reactions to most other foods. Pear sauce doesn't cover the flavor nearly as well as apple sauce. She hates swallowing the pills. We are all going nuts. HELP! How do you convince a nearly 3 year old that it is in her best interest to do something she doesn't want to do (and be respectful of her in the process). We have another month of these herbs left (only 1x a day starting tuesday at least.)

I make a squash/pumpkin smoothie that tastes good:
1 cup baked squash
2 T. nut butter
1 T honey
vanilla
cinnamon
1-2 T oil of choic, I use walnut and flax

I don't know if it will cover the taste, but it is something different. It tastes like pumkin pie batter. Sorry you are having trouble


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Ok folks, we are at our wits end trying to get these herbs into dd. She doesn't want to eat apple sauce 2x a day with bitter herbs in it (who can blame her really) She has reactions to most other foods. Pear sauce doesn't cover the flavor nearly as well as apple sauce. She hates swallowing the pills. We are all going nuts. HELP! How do you convince a nearly 3 year old that it is in her best interest to do something she doesn't want to do (and be respectful of her in the process). We have another month of these herbs left (only 1x a day starting tuesday at least.)

What about making the pumpkin pie filling recipe from pecanbread? It tastes really good, although I don't know how well it would cover up bitter flavors. Or could you make a game out of her swallowing the pills? Or even bribe/reward her if she'll take them?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Annikate - I have a tea called bedtime made by Yogi Tea; the sleep herbs it contains are valerian, passion flower, and skullcap, along with other herbs like licorice, spearmint, and chamomile....

FF/all - a sticky about products would be greaaat. I would like to see a list of products with reviews/backstories, though that would be a feat. Like "Lacto GG" ; started it b/c or to address ...., results were ..." But whoever posted the sticky would have to post all this info from others so that might be too much

Nolansmum - so glad you have a practitioner you can work and talk with! It makes such a difference.

Pookitooth - from what Ive read about reflux, meds are not the way to go. The things Ive seen recommended (though these wouldnt apply to a babe, necessarily - in that, I dont know which of these would work through bm); probiotics (as some say reflux is a leaky gut issue), enzymes, DGL. Also, many babies outgrow reflux. It seems that suppressing stomach acid (which is not the cause of reflux, only makes the symptoms better, and only sometimes) would be especially detrimental to a newbabe as it inhbits absorbtion. I have a friend whose baby had reflux and he is now 4 mos and much better

I am







: As usual, nothing is changing, but I dont know what to do. I feel like Im not treating anything, just in a holding pattern (and this is it, forever). Its been *only* 3.5 mos, but every practitioner I see is nonchalant about yeast - *easy* to treat, then after I see them for 6+ wks they start ammending their prognosis. On top of that, there's this upper GI misery - chest pain, sore throat, burping, feeling of food stuffed in my chest/stuck in my throat. Its all really uncomfortable, and I am eating about 10 foods, at most. I saw my AK this week who *prescribed* DGL among other things to handle the *reflux*. I have been reading about how great DGL is, but it contains sweetener. So I took it for a day, and my tongue is whiiiite this a.m. I cant treat both!!







: and yet the yeast is not moving.

Then I looked at Walt Stolls site, and he talks about many things being caused by LGS; candida, reflux, etc. He believes the main cause of leaky gut is body bracing, or stress (not that you dont also need diet and supps). The brain in your gut. This makes sense to me as I dont see how I could develop such bad reflux symptoms overnight (suddenly my valve stopped working? - I guess this could be), and since it started at the same time as the yeast. And I have been anxiety wracked for these 3 mos. So now I *have* to start a meditation practice to unload the bracing







: , which feels a lot like more to do.

This is such a psychological battle for me, I dont know why. Like, here's this very stressful thing happening in your life, but DONT BE STRESSED














:







: I think if I werent so physically uncomfortable Id feel better









So Im reading a lot about mind/body stuff and it fits into so much of what we talk about here.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I make a squash/pumpkin smoothie that tastes good:
1 cup baked squash
2 T. nut butter
1 T honey
vanilla
cinnamon
1-2 T oil of choic, I use walnut and flax

I don't know if it will cover the taste, but it is something different. It tastes like pumkin pie batter. Sorry you are having trouble









Unfortunatly she won't touch pumpkin or squash flavored things.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
What about making the pumpkin pie filling recipe from pecanbread? It tastes really good, although I don't know how well it would cover up bitter flavors. Or could you make a game out of her swallowing the pills? Or even bribe/reward her if she'll take them?

I can't think of any reward that is that appealing to her.

See above for the pumpkin pie idea.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I can't think of any reward that is that appealing to her.

See above for the pumpkin pie idea.

What about nut butters? Could you hide them in those if you do them?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
What about nut butters? Could you hide them in those if you do them?

Nut butters are a very hit or miss food for her. Once in a great while she will eat a nut butter sandwich but at least half of the time that she says she wants one she ends up not eating it.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Ok folks, we are at our wits end trying to get these herbs into dd. She doesn't want to eat apple sauce 2x a day with bitter herbs in it (who can blame her really) She has reactions to most other foods. Pear sauce doesn't cover the flavor nearly as well as apple sauce. She hates swallowing the pills. We are all going nuts. HELP! How do you convince a nearly 3 year old that it is in her best interest to do something she doesn't want to do (and be respectful of her in the process). We have another month of these herbs left (only 1x a day starting tuesday at least.)

I try and get really excited when ds needs to take something. I call it a treat. Maybe she could wear a special hat, or sit in a specially decorated seat. Could you let her blow out a birthday candle in the food you are hiding it in? I know you would have to muster up a lot of energy for these things, but ds responds very well to excitement and fun.


----------



## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Chamomile is in the ragweed family-so for you allergic ladies you may want to take that into consideration. Many can tolerate it, but if you have known ragweed allergies avoid it like the plague.

I am allergic to ragweed and one night I drank some chamomile...oh boy did I have a reaction. It felt like I was massively drunk and I had dreams like I was tripping on drugs. I now stay away! I hope my dd didnt have the same reaction because she drank some of mine.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
I try and get really excited when ds needs to take something. I call it a treat. Maybe she could wear a special hat, or sit in a specially decorated seat. Could you let her blow out a birthday candle in the food you are hiding it in? I know you would have to muster up a lot of energy for these things, but ds responds very well to excitement and fun.

We were phoning grandma and grandpa every time she took her pill (or anyone else who would listen.) That no longer works.

I made a sticker chart this afternoon with the promise of a reward of a trip to the park after she put just 2 stickers on it. She was only interested in the stickers untill she understood she had to drink the herbs first. Then she lost all interest.

She hasn't nursed since the middle of the morning. She napped w/o nursing. I'm refusing to give up the goods untill she takes the meds. She will take a sip or two at a time and then quit. Every trick that used to work isn't working anymore and we are only half way through this. I don't know what to do!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
We were phoning grandma and grandpa every time she took her pill (or anyone else who would listen.) That no longer works.

I made a sticker chart this afternoon with the promise of a reward of a trip to the park after she put just 2 stickers on it. She was only interested in the stickers untill she understood she had to drink the herbs first. Then she lost all interest.

She hasn't nursed since the middle of the morning. She napped w/o nursing. I'm refusing to give up the goods untill she takes the meds. She will take a sip or two at a time and then quit. Every trick that used to work isn't working anymore and we are only half way through this. I don't know what to do!

I'm sure you've thought of this but will she take them in jello?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Can't do jello. Too much fruit juice. It would make her







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Is there any way you can mix the herbs in with other herbs that taste better, or would that negate the benefits of them?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If people want to contribute to a "supplements" sticky, I'll collect the information and put it together. If you want to contribute, PM me with the supplements you've taken, the results (or lack thereof) you've seen, brands, best prices, etc.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Is there any way you can mix the herbs in with other herbs that taste better, or would that negate the benefits of them?

I have no idea. I just heard a whoop from dh. I assume the meds have been finally consumed.!


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Can't do jello. Too much fruit juice. It would make her







:

what about gelatin? flavored with a few drops of peppermint extract and green food coloring?

back to poop... i stumbled onto this humorous but somewhat informative poop website: http://www.heptune.com/poop.html

just thought i'd share


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Patty-not many options left! This is from enzymestuff and I have not tried it. What about putting it in chocolate? You could make your own with CO, sweetener of choice, and cocoa powder; add the herbs and then freeze on wax paper.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

How about some kombucha jello!?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I'm trying to assess what should be my goal for my 5 mo old's reflux/yakking. In the beginning, she would projectile vomit often, it was really smelly, and there was lots of it. We were at the changing clothes 10-12 times a day place in life, and I would not think of leaving the house without 5 extra outfits for her and 2 for me ('m not joking). Obviously this is not right.

Now I've eliminated all dairy, eggs, and am following scd, and things are a million times better. But I'm trying to figure out what my goal should be as I introduce foods (all scd legal, but just things that I haven't tried yet). Is a little yak ok or should the goal be none? My Mom, who is very supportive generally but not into all this nutrition/food/scd stuff, keeps gently nudging that maybe my goals/expectations are unrealistic. "Babies spit up," she says. So, I have the angel and devil fighting on my shoulders - IS some spit up ok or is this a case, as ff says, where it may be common, but it is not normal?

I feel pretty confident with my assessment on poop and gas, but I'm struggling with the spit up issue.

thanks for any insight or opinions!


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
To all those dealing with reflux in a baby: Any good links for information about it? I have a friend whose 7 week old has severe reflux, and is on zantac for it. The baby is having a hard time sleeping, and is generally very fussy. She has cut out dairy, but I don't think she's tried other allergens. She also has a two year old, so I know she doesn't have a lot of time to research this. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chinese Pistache: Pineapple can cause problems because of both the acidity and the protease enzymes in it (can't remember the exact name -- maybe bromelane?). My hubby has both food intolerances and also know oral allergic reactions where his throat closes up. Pineapple and several nuts do this to him. Cantelope often has mold in it, and is not allowed on many anti-yeast diets, so that could account for the dark circles.

Like others, this is what brought me here, too. Life got magically better for us after I cut out all dairy, eggs, and started following scd (minus eggs and dairy, of course). I have a just turned three year old, and time has been a challenge, but I wasn't willing to do zantac til I tried my diet first. It was a long road of acceptance for me that I was the problem, and that I could cut out all these allergens and actually emotionally survive, but now I'm here, and well, life is better than it was at the beginning. PM me if you want more on what I did/learned along the way.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I'm trying to assess what should be my goal for my 5 mo old's reflux/yakking. In the beginning, she would projectile vomit often, it was really smelly, and there was lots of it. We were at the changing clothes 10-12 times a day place in life, and I would not think of leaving the house without 5 extra outfits for her and 2 for me ('m not joking). Obviously this is not right.

Now I've eliminated all dairy, eggs, and am following scd, and things are a million times better. But I'm trying to figure out what my goal should be as I introduce foods (all scd legal, but just things that I haven't tried yet). Is a little yak ok or should the goal be none? My Mom, who is very supportive generally but not into all this nutrition/food/scd stuff, keeps gently nudging that maybe my goals/expectations are unrealistic. "Babies spit up," she says. So, I have the angel and devil fighting on my shoulders - IS some spit up ok or is this a case, as ff says, where it may be common, but it is not normal?

I feel pretty confident with my assessment on poop and gas, but I'm struggling with the spit up issue.

thanks for any insight or opinions!

I don't know, I'm not comfortable with any baby *spit up* that is chunky or has a horrible smell. (This is what my dd's was like. And like your babe we changed clothes many many times daily.)

I don't really think that dd *grew out of it* like some people suggest. I do know that it got significantly better once the wheat/gluten was gone but when I look back it got worse again when she was taking Safe Start swim lessons. We later found out just how terrible chlorine is for gut flora.

Once we stopped her swim lessons, the spitting up stopped.

If I only knew then what I know now . . .


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I am wanting to get a yogurt maker for christmas and didnt know if anyone had any luck making the 24 hr yogurt with this yogurt maker

I am really going to be giving SCD another try starting in January. I want to get past all the holiday food thing first


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker* 
I am wanting to get a yogurt maker for christmas and didnt know if anyone had any luck making the 24 hr yogurt with this yogurt maker

That's the one I used when I did the SCD.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
We later found out just how terrible chlorine is for gut flora.

our building (at work) uses a cooling tower to chill some of the growth chambers (some rooms scientists use for growing/storing things without windows and are kept at constant temperature). the cooling tower is adjacent to the air intake for the HVAC system that feeds our office. every time they overdose that darn cooling tower with CHLORINE, our room smells like a swimming pool. dh has noticed that whenever they overdose, he gets a flare up of his seborrheic dermatitis (at least, that is what it was diagnosed as by the dermatologist before we made this connection). moreover, when we started showering with chlorine filters on the showerhead, his skin really cleared up.

one of our coworkers is so sensitive to chlorine that, when they overdose, she can't come into our office (we had to relocate her to another office in the adjacent building!) - she gets nauseous and lightheaded, even pukey on a bad day.

don't underestimate the bad effects of chlorine.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
IS some spit up ok or is this a case, as ff says, where it may be common, but it is not normal?

my ds rarely spit up. i think i can count on my one hand the number of times he spit up. i doubt spit up is normal in a b'fed baby.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker* 
I am wanting to get a yogurt maker for christmas and didnt know if anyone had any luck making the 24 hr yogurt with this yogurt maker

I am really going to be giving SCD another try starting in January. I want to get past all the holiday food thing first

We used that one. One major alteration though, esp if you will be using raw milk. We put quart canning jars into the yogurt maker instead of the plastic insert and left off the top completely. That kept it from getting too hot. If you don't do that sometimes it would get too hot and kill the culture and I would end up with curds and whey esp in the summer.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

DD had her first NAET clearing today. I went for dairy because that will make our lives so much easier. While we were there she had a reaction to the elmers glue she was playing with (rash all over her hands.)








: Is there gluten in glue? She has had contact issues with gluten before.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
DD had her first NAET clearing today. I went for dairy because that will make our lives so much easier. While we were there she had a reaction to the elmers glue she was playing with (rash all over her hands.)







: Is there gluten in glue? She has had contact issues with gluten before.









: you know what Patty? I think I DO remember reading once that there is gluten in glue. I'd like to know for sure though. If you find out pls. lmk and I'll do the same.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

It was elmers washable glue. According to a couple of sites it is gluten free. Great, another allergy.







:


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
my ds rarely spit up. i think i can count on my one hand the number of times he spit up. i doubt spit up is normal in a b'fed baby.

In infants spitting up issomewhat normal (and common!) because of the way the epiglottis (flap at the top of hte digestive tract) is developing. This spit up shouldn't really happen when the baby is upright, and shouldn't happen past a month or so as the sphincters start to mature. IF an infant eats a bellyfull and is laid on the floor and spits up, that is absolutely normal. THe chunky, smelly stuff never is.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
In infants spitting up issomewhat normal (and common!) because of the way the epiglottis (flap at the top of hte digestive tract) is developing. This spit up shouldn't really happen when the baby is upright, and shouldn't happen past a month or so as the sphincters start to mature. IF an infant eats a bellyfull and is laid on the floor and spits up, that is absolutely normal. THe chunky, smelly stuff never is.

So what does it mean if DD still spits up every once in a while? It seems to be normal baby spit-up.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I don't know, I'm not comfortable with any baby *spit up* that is chunky or has a horrible smell. (This is what my dd's was like. And like your babe we changed clothes many many times daily.)

I don't really think that dd *grew out of it* like some people suggest. I do know that it got significantly better once the wheat/gluten was gone but when I look back it got worse again when she was taking Safe Start swim lessons. We later found out just how terrible chlorine is for gut flora.

Once we stopped her swim lessons, the spitting up stopped.

If I only knew then what I know now . . .

In most cases kiddos DON'T grow out of these things, the symptoms jsut manifest differently. You have heard the stories, spitting up miraculously stops and people get all excited because "dd grew out of her dairy allergy, she doesn't vomit anymore!" Then a month later they're lamenting about the eczema, ADHD or bed wetting. I get very wary when people say their kids just grew out of allergies.

LLL-At 5 months I wouldn't want to be seeing spit up anymore unless is was a viral thing. NOt that I'd WANT to see it then, but you get my point. Spit up is not something to be overlooked at that age IMO.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
So what does it mean if DD still spits up every once in a while? It seems to be normal baby spit-up.


Define once in a while. IF it's once a day. No. Once a week, I'd personally be looking for the cause. Once a month-I'd likely be ignoring it depending on the age of the kiddo. IF my ds were doing it once a month at 4 months of age and everything else looked perfect I'd be fine. IF my dd were doing it once a month at 2.5 years and everything else looked fine I'd be looking for a reason.

IF what you are seeing is infrequent and looks just like breastmilk coming back up, or is a tiny bit curdy it's probably fine. What's the frequency and how old is your dd now? I know I ask you this all the time...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Okay-10 months, I just looked at your signature. How often?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I'm trying to assess what should be my goal for my 5 mo old's reflux/yakking. In the beginning, she would projectile vomit often, it was really smelly, and there was lots of it. We were at the changing clothes 10-12 times a day place in life, and I would not think of leaving the house without 5 extra outfits for her and 2 for me ('m not joking). Obviously this is not right.

Now I've eliminated all dairy, eggs, and am following scd, and things are a million times better. But I'm trying to figure out what my goal should be as I introduce foods (all scd legal, but just things that I haven't tried yet). Is a little yak ok or should the goal be none? My Mom, who is very supportive generally but not into all this nutrition/food/scd stuff, keeps gently nudging that maybe my goals/expectations are unrealistic. "Babies spit up," she says. So, I have the angel and devil fighting on my shoulders - IS some spit up ok or is this a case, as ff says, where it may be common, but it is not normal?

I feel pretty confident with my assessment on poop and gas, but I'm struggling with the spit up issue.

thanks for any insight or opinions!

My DS spit up a lot too, the dr's all said it was normal. When I went on SCD it went away, until I would eat something I couldn't digest and he would spit up. When DS started his first solids, he spit it up and I knew he wasn't ready for them. I would introduce them cautiously and start later than 6 months. I personally would want minimal, if any spit up. How much does she spit up now? I don't think your goals are unrealistic, I think people have agendas (every baby eats rice cereal...)


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
We used that one. One major alteration though, esp if you will be using raw milk. We put quart canning jars into the yogurt maker instead of the plastic insert and left off the top completely. That kept it from getting too hot. If you don't do that sometimes it would get too hot and kill the culture and I would end up with curds and whey esp in the summer.

I did the same, but I added water between the jar and the yogurt maker.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Okay-10 months, I just looked at your signature. How often?

Maybe once every week or two. It's definitely just normal baby spit-up in appearance and smell. Could pressure on her tummy cause her to spit up? It always happens when she's in a position where pressure could have been put on her stomach, although I can't ever say definitely that pressure was put on her stomach.


----------



## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
We used that one. One major alteration though, esp if you will be using raw milk. We put quart canning jars into the yogurt maker instead of the plastic insert and left off the top completely. That kept it from getting too hot. If you don't do that sometimes it would get too hot and kill the culture and I would end up with curds and whey esp in the summer.

good to know. thanks for the tip!


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
My DS spit up a lot too, the dr's all said it was normal. When I went on SCD it went away, until I would eat something I couldn't digest and he would spit up. When DS started his first solids, he spit it up and I knew he wasn't ready for them. I would introduce them cautiously and start later than 6 months. I personally would want minimal, if any spit up. How much does she spit up now? I don't think your goals are unrealistic, I think people have agendas (every baby eats rice cereal...)

Even on her worst days now, she only spits up a bit every now and then. But it is usually the chunkier, stinky kind, so I'm not ok with it. What really got me thinking about this was that we went an entire 5 days with none at all. I mean none. Then this weekend it started back. In looking over my food journals, I think it was either palm oil, raw apple, or almond flour. I'm leaning more towards thinking it was the palm oil or almond flour, even though I really don't want to believe that (because I love using both of them). This whole food log process is so iterative - I really thought both of those were safe foods, but then I got busy and didn't have time to bake anything all last week, which is the first time she was at zero spit up for any amount of time. So, I'm going to stay away from all 3 of them for a while and see what happens, and then test them again (one at a time, this time!). Ahhhh, I'm so sick of meat and zucchini.

Thanks to all of you for your help, once again!


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Ds is getting worse. I started giving him some solids in his feeds. First banana, which he stayed the same for nearly a week, then a rash started on his bum. Several red splotches that get crusty/peely, then fade and flare again. Ped says it's not related to the bananas b/c it took a bit to show up.







So I waited a bit (after my mom reminded me my sis was quite allergic to bananas as a child







) then did butternut squash. No change. Then I started jarred turkey (I know, I know, but it has to go through the tube and I don't have a good enough blender) b/c his nutritionist wants meats for iron. Been doing that for about a week, and yesterday/today he has a big red ring around the anus. I guess I should cut the solids and see if this stuff resolves.

The good news is they cut back his feeds again, so even with cutting back pumping I should be able to keep up with him, so I could now try diet changes. Last time I posted people seemed to think that eliminating foods wasn't worth the time/effort. I'm thinking I'll start SCD after Thanksgiving.

Here's what's holding me back:
1. Worried about increasing my nut and egg intake, in case that's what he's reacting to. As I've posted before, I need my protein sources.

2. The openendedness. I saw on pecanbread that some people decided to do 10 days, or a month and saw results. How short of a goal could I set myself and realistically expect to see if it's helping? 2 months?

3. How do you know how quickly to add foods? The only symptoms we have are eczema, and mild constipation. So I do 2-3 days on intro, and then what?

Sorry for the length.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Even on her worst days now, she only spits up a bit every now and then. But it is usually the chunkier, stinky kind, so I'm not ok with it. What really got me thinking about this was that we went an entire 5 days with none at all. I mean none. Then this weekend it started back. In looking over my food journals, I think it was either palm oil, raw apple, or almond flour. I'm leaning more towards thinking it was the palm oil or almond flour, even though I really don't want to believe that (because I love using both of them). This whole food log process is so iterative - I really thought both of those were safe foods, but then I got busy and didn't have time to bake anything all last week, which is the first time she was at zero spit up for any amount of time. So, I'm going to stay away from all 3 of them for a while and see what happens, and then test them again (one at a time, this time!). Ahhhh, I'm so sick of meat and zucchini.

Thanks to all of you for your help, once again!

I hear ya with the food journal, I keep studying my food journals to find patterns. And I am sooo sick of meat and veggies. Can you start with nut butters? They are easier to digest than nut flour. Glad the spit up is getting under control.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Maybe once every week or two. It's definitely just normal baby spit-up in appearance and smell. Could pressure on her tummy cause her to spit up? It always happens when she's in a position where pressure could have been put on her stomach, although I can't ever say definitely that pressure was put on her stomach.


I wouldn't be worrying about that-especially with the pressure on the belly! It sounds fine. How does she sleep? Back or front?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I wouldn't be worrying about that-especially with the pressure on the belly! It sounds fine. How does she sleep? Back or front?

Generally on her back--whenever she rolls onto her stomach she automatically pushes herself up, wakes herself up, and cries.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I started giving DD coconut oil and coconut milk kefir again a few days ago...I think the coconut kefir might be causing die-off in her as she's had loose stools the last couple of days. Her eczema seems to alternate days between looking better and looking worse, so I don't think she is reacting to the coconut.

If the eczema's reacting to something in my diet, like wheat, would it take a few days for the reaction to clear, or could her cheeks look better after just a day of me not eating the food? Or if the reaction clears up that fast, could it be that whatever I'm eating is feeding her yeast and that makes the eczema look worse for a day?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

interesting. I double checked (not using a name or anything for confidentiality purposes) with an LC who sat the boards the first time they were given. She has been doing this forever and is the best of the best as far as I'm concerned. She's brilliant. My feeling was that this was fine. She agreed, however she asked if the baby slept on her front or back. She said that the whole "Back to Sleep" campaign was one of the reasons we are seeing more refluxing. Apparently even twenty years ago there just weren't a fraction of the cases that we see now. She was adamant that having a baby sleep on it's back was a major reason (aside from food allergies, and oversupply) that we are seeing so much refluxing-that it may even be a cause for some of the structural stuff that's out of whack.

Take it for what it's worth. I've never had my kids sleep on their backs, but Emrys often rolls onto his back after nursing and if I am not awake enough to flip him he does spit up far more. I never made this connection before. I just assumed that I wasn't as aware of it becasue it's not as audible (no choking sounds.) I really didn't think about it enough to realize the bed was more wet if he was on his back...but it is. I just knew I didn't want my kids on their backs!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama-a-llama* 
Here's what's holding me back:
1. Worried about increasing my nut and egg intake, in case that's what he's reacting to. As I've posted before, I need my protein sources.

2. The openendedness. I saw on pecanbread that some people decided to do 10 days, or a month and saw results. How short of a goal could I set myself and realistically expect to see if it's helping? 2 months?

3. How do you know how quickly to add foods? The only symptoms we have are eczema, and mild constipation. So I do 2-3 days on intro, and then what?

Sorry for the length.

Personally I think you should see results in a month if the SCD is going to help you. I did it for a little over two months before abandoning it but I had a pretty good idea after a month that it wasn't doing much for us.

You need to add foods slowly enough that you can tell whether a particular food is causing a reaction. It's hard, though, because the foods are so limited at first. So you might add several foods that are low on the allergen scale the first week, and then one new foods every few days after that, for instance. It's really just trial and error, unfortunately.

You could try the SCD with just one nut or just eggs for a bit and see how that goes. Keep in mind, though, that all reactions aren't necessarily bad or a reason to stop a particular food. You/your baby can heal even if you don't avoid allergens as long as they don't cause reactions you don't want to deal with (ie you might avoid a food that worsens his eczema but not one that gives him a mild diaper rash that doesn't seem to bother him). Some kids are so allergic they seem to react to every food that exists but they still heal on the diet without avoiding their allergens. Also, reactions can be due to healing or die-off, not necessarily allergies.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
interesting. I double checked (not using a name or anything for confidentiality purposes) with an LC who sat the boards the first time they were given. She has been doing this forever and is the best of the best as far as I'm concerned. She's brilliant. My feeling was that this was fine. She agreed, however she asked if the baby slept on her front or back. She said that the whole "Back to Sleep" campaign was one of the reasons we are seeing more refluxing. Apparently even twenty years ago there just weren't a fraction of the cases that we see now. She was adamant that having a baby sleep on it's back was a major reason (aside from food allergies, and oversupply) that we are seeing so much refluxing-that it may even be a cause for some of the structural stuff that's out of whack.

Take it for what it's worth. I've never had my kids sleep on their backs, but Emrys often rolls onto his back after nursing and if I am not awake enough to flip him he does spit up far more. I never made this connection before. I just assumed that I wasn't as aware of it becasue it's not as audible (no choking sounds.) I really didn't think about it enough to realize the bed was more wet if he was on his back...but it is. I just knew I didn't want my kids on their backs!

That is interesting. DD slept on her side the first couple of months until she figured out how to roll onto her back. I've never felt comfortable letting her sleep on her stomach--she had a tendency to lay there face down and not lift her head up if she accidentally ended up on her stomach. I assume she could breathe as she didn't squirm or act panicky but it made me too nervous to let her do it!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 

If the eczema's reacting to something in my diet, like wheat, would it take a few days for the reaction to clear, or could her cheeks look better after just a day of me not eating the food? Or if the reaction clears up that fast, could it be that whatever I'm eating is feeding her yeast and that makes the eczema look worse for a day?

IF the rash clears that fast, I'd be tempted to think it was more about the yeast than the food. Dd tried brown rice the other day and her face was awful by morning. We seem to be going backwards over here. I have a feeling it's more about the powers that be telling me that we need to do more healing. I talked to dh and we have decided to go hardcore SCD again-it really worked so well for us. We have been basically doing it, but cheating here and there.

Sorry Caedmyn, I wandered there. My point when I started talking (







) was to say that dd flares immediately if I give her something she's sensitive to, and it takes at least a week to settle down. If hers clears that fast, I'd think it was yeast related. Can you post pictures?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's a couple of pictures...the first is her on a bad day (I know everyone whose babies have bad eczema is going to think I am nuts for worrying about it so much, but I just don't want it to get to the bad/crusty/weepy stage!). The second is her on a good day...you really can't see it at all in the pictures but it is there, just not very noticeable.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/DSC03031.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...n/DSC03261.jpg


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
interesting. I double checked (not using a name or anything for confidentiality purposes) with an LC who sat the boards the first time they were given. She has been doing this forever and is the best of the best as far as I'm concerned. She's brilliant. My feeling was that this was fine. She agreed, however she asked if the baby slept on her front or back. She said that the whole "Back to Sleep" campaign was one of the reasons we are seeing more refluxing. Apparently even twenty years ago there just weren't a fraction of the cases that we see now. She was adamant that having a baby sleep on it's back was a major reason (aside from food allergies, and oversupply) that we are seeing so much refluxing-that it may even be a cause for some of the structural stuff that's out of whack.

Take it for what it's worth. I've never had my kids sleep on their backs, but Emrys often rolls onto his back after nursing and if I am not awake enough to flip him he does spit up far more. I never made this connection before. I just assumed that I wasn't as aware of it becasue it's not as audible (no choking sounds.) I really didn't think about it enough to realize the bed was more wet if he was on his back...but it is. I just knew I didn't want my kids on their backs!

Same here. It just didn't feel natural to me to have my girls sleeping on their backs. Of course, it didn't help dd's reflux any to have her on her tummy. (Or her sleep for that matter.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patti,

What about mixing glycerin with the herbs? It is very sweet but technically an oil and SCD legal.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Carly,

Were the bananas fresh or jarred? You might have better luck with fresh well spotted bananas. Also the jarred turkey probably had other filler (starch) stuff in it? Are you giving probiotics? The best blender I've found is an inexpensive stick style by Braun, $20. It gets food completely smooth.


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Carly,

Were the bananas fresh or jarred? You might have better luck with fresh well spotted bananas.

Jarred. Alas, according to USAmma, it's nearly impossible at home to get bananas in a state that the pump won't freak out--they froth too much.

Quote:

Also the jarred turkey probably had other filler (starch) stuff in it?
I figured. I thought the 2% rule had changed and there had to be complete disclosure (hence all the soup cans with the long list of "contains less than 2% of the following") It said "turkey and turkey broth" but I'm betting there was nasty stuff in the broth.

Quote:

Are you giving probiotics?
We were, but I've slacked off. We were using Baby Jarro, but I know now that isn't really the best. Not sure what to use instead.

Quote:

The best blender I've found is an inexpensive stick style by Braun, $20. It gets food completely smooth.
That's what we have. I could have a little more leeway if I didn't use the pump and did a manual bolus, but it's sort of a pain. Of course, if we can demonstrate real food is good for him, and get the ped to write a letter, we could get a refurbished Vitamix for about 1/2 price.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have been getting light headed when I drink water kefir. I usually have an ounce after a meal and not even 10 min later I feel a little drunk. I used 3 T rapadura for 4 c water and let it culture 36 hrs then let it sit for another 24 hrs.
Is it the sugar bothering me? Die off? I have also had a bit of a sore throat and I am irritable. DS has been irritable too. DS's eczema has been in semi-flair up and he had a flair up in diaper rash, which I haven't seen in a while.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Caedmyn, your dd is so gorgeous! I hope she feels better soon. I don't know eczema very well, but isn't it usually really itchy? She doesn't look that bad compared with some others that I've known who had huge red patches. But it's all relative, I guess.

ETA: Carly, I've seen Vitamixes for sale on Craigslist for a lot less than full price, some of them unopened brand new. You might want to keep an eye out. I'm sure there are plenty out there sitting on shelves collecting dust since the sales pitch is so huge but so many are not really ready to drink all their food. You might even post something in the TP in the ISO section, including that you need it for your tube fed babe. Might get someone really cool who would give one to you!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I haver been cooking and baking like a madwoman the past 3 days







: , I have decided to take most of my food for my 3 day trip. I will only have to eat out 2 times, and those are mostly for social reasons.

I used to cheat because I couldn't control my cravings but now I don't want to cheat because I know how badly I will feel. Only took 5 months to get to this point







: .


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Caedmyn-You DD is a cutie! And her eczema is so good! DS's is rarely that good.
Here is a picture of DS on an average day:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...s/DSCF1873.jpg
sometimes it is itchy.

Ds always sleeps on his tummy now. When he was first born we put him on his back because they told us to, but after a few weeks we tried the tummy and he seemed much happier. We also let him sleep in his car seat or bouncy seat because being upright helped his reflux a lot.

Hi Jane! How's everything going with your DS? How are you doing?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I have been getting light headed when I drink water kefir. I usually have an ounce after a meal and not even 10 min later I feel a little drunk. I used 3 T rapadura for 4 c water and let it culture 36 hrs then let it sit for another 24 hrs.
Is it the sugar bothering me? Die off? I have also had a bit of a sore throat and I am irritable. DS has been irritable too. DS's eczema has been in semi-flair up and he had a flair up in diaper rash, which I haven't seen in a while.

I would guess it's die-off. I know I had major die-off with water kefir, and now I think DD is having die-off from her coconut milk kefir. It's strong stuff!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/cont...act/289/2/G367

Acetaldehyde disrupts tight junctions and adherens junctions in human colonic mucosa: protection by EGF and L-glutamine
S. Basuroy, P. Sheth, C. M. Mansbach, and R. K. Rao

Acetaldehyde, a toxic metabolite of ethanol oxidation, is suggested to play a role in the increased risk for gastrointestinal cancers in alcoholics. In the present study, the effect of acetaldehyde on tyrosine phosphorylation, immmunofluorescence localization, and detergent-insoluble fractions of the tight junction and the adherens junction proteins was determined in the human colonic mucosa. The role of EGF and L-glutamine in prevention of acetaldehyde-induced effects was also evaluated. Acetaldehyde reduced the protein tyrosine phosphatase activity, thereby increasing the tyrosine phosphorylation of occludin, E-cadherin, and {beta}-catenin. The levels of occludin, zonula occludens-1, E-cadherin, and {beta}-catenin in detergent-insoluble fractions were reduced by acetaldehyde, while it increased their levels in detergent-soluble fractions. Pretreatment with EGF or L-glutamine prevented acetaldehyde-induced protein tyrosine phosphorylation, redistribution from intercellular junctions, and reduction in the levels of detergent-insoluble fractions of occludin, zonula occludens-1, E-cadherin, and {beta}-catenin. *These results demonstrate that acetaldehyde induces tyrosine phosphorylation and disrupts tight junction and adherens junction in human colonic mucosa, which can be prevented by EGF and glutamine.*

A bit of background... the problem with leaky gut, as i now understand it, is that the "tight junctions" (specalized connections between intestinal epithelial cells) malfunction -- for whatever reason. To heal the gut, one needs to get these tight junctions functioning correctly to prevent leakage.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/77/5/1296

Dietary supplementation with zinc and a growth factor extract derived from bovine cheese whey improves methotrexate-damaged rat intestine

Cuong D Tran, Gordon S Howarth, Peter Coyle, Jeffrey C Philcox, Allan M Rofe and Ross N Butler

Background: Oral administration of zinc or bovine whey-derived growth factor extract (WGFE) is known to reduce intestinal permeability and ameliorate methotrexate (MTX)-induced mucositis, respectively.

Objective: We examined the effects of zinc, WGFE, and zinc plus WGFE on gut damage in MTX-treated rats.

Design: Rats (n = 16/group) were fed zinc (1000 mg/kg diet), WGFE (32 mg/kg diet), zinc plus WGFE, or control (10 mg Zn/kg diet) diets for 7 d and then injected subcutaneously with MTX (2.5 mg/kg) for 3 d to induce gut damage. Gut histology and intestinal permeability were assessed.

Results: The Zn+WGFE diet was associated with both reduced gut damage on day 5 and enhanced recovery on day 7. The WGFE diet ameliorated gut damage, whereas the Zn and Zn+WGFE diets enhanced repair. Gut metallothionein and tissue zinc concentrations were significantly (P < 0.01) higher with Zn and Zn+WGFE on days 5 and 7 than without zinc supplementation. The Zn and Zn+WGFE diets significantly (P < 0.05) decreased gut permeability on days 3-4 compared with the control diet. Intestinal permeability was significantly (P < 0.05) increased on days 5-6. On days 6-7, only the WGFE diet improved gut permeability (by 80%) compared with the control diet.

Conclusions: *Dietary administration of WGFE and a pharmacologic dose of zinc reduced intestinal damage and enhanced recovery, respectively. WGFE also improved gut permeability after MTX-induced bowel damage. In combination, zinc and WGFE hastened repair of gut damage, which may have clinical application in chemotherapy-induced mucositis.*

------

So ignore the fact that these were rats, and focus on the treatment: zinc and whey growth factor extract.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/168/1/3
(article is available free of charge)

How Stress Induces Intestinal Hypersensitivity
Andre G. Buret

Chronic disorders of the gastrointestinal tract such as food allergies, inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) continue to impose considerable personal and social burdens worldwide.
...

The role of external factors, such as psychological stress, in triggering inflammatory reactions has become a topic of intense research activity. Stress may trigger allergic reactions in the gut and other organs, and depression or anxiety may worsen symptoms in inflammatory disorders of the intestine. The cascade of biological events leading to stress-induced enteropathy remains poorly understood. ....in a genetically susceptible host, stress contributes to the development of food allergies by increasing transepithelial permeability in a corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH)-dependent fashion. Their report offers convincing data to support their earlier groundbreaking observations that stress may alter epithelial function. ...

... An ever-increasing number of reports suggest that gastrointestinal pathogens may cause disease, at least in part, by increasing transepithelial permeability. For example, Helicobacter pylori has the ability to increase the passage of food antigens across the gastric epithelium, and infection with this gastric pathogen may be associated with the development of food allergies....

The findings of Yang and colleagues that stress may contribute to food allergies by increasing transepithelial permeability bears particular interest in view of the protective role played by endogenous bacteria in modulating the development of allergies. Several studies have established an association between normal gut flora and the development of allergies. *Children with allergies are more likely to harbor aerobic bacteria and less likely to be colonized with lactobacilli, when compared to nonallergic children*. A recent study found that children delivered by cesarean section were at particularly high risk of developing food allergies. Together with other observations, this supports a role for vaginal birth in helping to establish normal gut flora. Finally, in keeping with the "hygiene hypothesis," *early colonization with bifidobacteria seems to protect against allergies, and administration of probiotic bacteria after birth significantly reduces the development of allergies in the lungs as well as in the gut.* ...

------

who wants to join me at the spa?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Has anyone ever had any success going to a conventional GI doc - at least for a dx? I went to one more than ten years ago and was unhappy with the treatment. The dx'd IBS after a lower GI (fun







) and threw some drugs at me, which I never took. That's when I looked toward holistic medicine and had the CDSA.
Well, here I am years later with similar stuff going on. It's so bad now....I wake up feeling like total crap. Horrible gas in the middle of my abdomen and pain in my bladder. This current flair up has been going on for about a month now. Started with a week long bout of diarrhea - major pain and than poop after every meal. Now it's just cramps - the poop has improved. I eliminated gluten and dairy and am still not seeing major improvements. I'm taking DGL tabs, aloe juice, l-glutamine, b6 and some herbal teas. What am I missing? I also have this very inflamed patch of skin on my left middle finger that seems to flair out of the blue. While I was cooking dinner last night little white non-filled bubbles popped out all over it and it took major determination to not scratch my skin off. It was a weird combo of burning and itching. I've had eczema before, but this is different.
Anyhow, I'm waiting on results from a two-day stool analysis and blood work (looking for presence of bacteria, parasites, food sensitivities and IGg/IGe) through a conventional lab. My family doc is open minded and said we could do whatever testing I want. I just don't know what direction to go in if these tests come back normal.


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
I also have this very inflamed patch of skin on my left middle finger that seems to flair out of the blue. While I was cooking dinner last night little white non-filled bubbles popped out all over it and it took major determination to not scratch my skin off. It was a weird combo of burning and itching. I've had eczema before, but this is different.

Sounds like pompholyx, AKA dyshidrotic eczema. It's what I've got. It started like you describe, back in college, and has now taken over the fingers and roughly half the palm of my right hand. It's supposed to be stress related--most of the spread has been in the past year, since ds was born and had all his health issues and stuff. Sorry to say I haven't yet found anything that really helps.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama-a-llama* 
Sounds like pompholyx, AKA dyshidrotic eczema. It's what I've got. It started like you describe, back in college, and has now taken over the fingers and roughly half the palm of my right hand. It's supposed to be stress related--most of the spread has been in the past year, since ds was born and had all his health issues and stuff. Sorry to say I haven't yet found anything that really helps.

I checked out some photos and that does sound a lot like what's going on with my finger. Weird thing is that dh had it during the summer and it has gone away.
You haven't found any ways to get rid of it? I used some herbal salves that didn't help at all and finally put some cortisone cream on it. That helped for a week or so.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
I'm taking DGL tabs, aloe juice, l-glutamine, b6 and some herbal teas. What am I missing?

supplements with gamma linolenic acid (GLA) [found in blackcurrant seed oil, borage oil and/or evening primrose oil], perhaps?

vitamin C with bioflavonoids? (see the thread on optidose / optimal dosing)

avoid chlorine - invest in good water filters in your kitchen and on your shower.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/168/1/3
(article is available free of charge)

How Stress Induces Intestinal Hypersensitivity
Andre G. Buret [/b] ...

------

who wants to join me at the spa?









This is something I have been looking into more these days. The situation surrounding my yeast *journey*














was/is the most stressful thing that's ever happened, and now I continue to be incredibly anxious (articles like this stating how bad anxiety is for this whole deal doesnt help my anxiety







). Anyway, there is a doc who attributes much of gut related illness (ie leaky gut issues) to stored stress. He explains that stress is stored in the hypothalamus as a result of too much time spent in fight or flight (and that in our modern society, most people are in FOF most of the time). To discharge the stored stress you must activate a certain wavelength in your brain through some form of meditation (TM, yoga, whatever gets you there) for at least 2x 20 min a day. The result of stored stress is "body bracing" which results in LGS, and then everything that follows (reflux, allergies, TMJ, ...). Just another angle - it certainly connects to what Ive been through, and stress sure plays a role in most illness.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

saskiasmom--what are you doing for your GERD? I've had some of the same symptoms as you lately...I started taking a Tbsp of raw apple cider vinegar before meals (and some afterwards, too, if necessary) and that's helped a lot. I think the ACV was feeding the yeast, though, so today I started Betaine HCL instead. I've only used it with one meal but so far it's worked great.

Have you read "The Fourfold Path to Healing"? It talks a lot of the mental aspects of illness, kind of along the lines of what you've been discussing.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
Has anyone ever had any success going to a conventional GI doc - at least for a dx? I went to one more than ten years ago and was unhappy with the treatment. The dx'd IBS after a lower GI (fun







) and threw some drugs at me, which I never took. That's when I looked toward holistic medicine and had the CDSA.
Well, here I am years later with similar stuff going on. It's so bad now....I wake up feeling like total crap. Horrible gas in the middle of my abdomen and pain in my bladder. This current flair up has been going on for about a month now. Started with a week long bout of diarrhea - major pain and than poop after every meal. Now it's just cramps - the poop has improved. I eliminated gluten and dairy and am still not seeing major improvements. I'm taking DGL tabs, aloe juice, l-glutamine, b6 and some herbal teas. What am I missing? I also have this very inflamed patch of skin on my left middle finger that seems to flair out of the blue. While I was cooking dinner last night little white non-filled bubbles popped out all over it and it took major determination to not scratch my skin off. It was a weird combo of burning and itching. I've had eczema before, but this is different.
Anyhow, I'm waiting on results from a two-day stool analysis and blood work (looking for presence of bacteria, parasites, food sensitivities and IGg/IGe) through a conventional lab. My family doc is open minded and said we could do whatever testing I want. I just don't know what direction to go in if these tests come back normal.









I had a wonderful GI doc many years ago. I don't think they're all terrible - it's just hard to find the good ones.









Are you following the SCD?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
This is something I have been looking into more these days. The situation surrounding my yeast *journey*














was/is the most stressful thing that's ever happened, and now I continue to be incredibly anxious (articles like this stating how bad anxiety is for this whole deal doesnt help my anxiety







). Anyway, there is a doc who attributes much of gut related illness (ie leaky gut issues) to stored stress. He explains that stress is stored in the hypothalamus as a result of too much time spent in fight or flight (and that in our modern society, most people are in FOF most of the time). To discharge the stored stress you must activate a certain wavelength in your brain through some form of meditation (TM, yoga, whatever gets you there) for at least 2x 20 min a day. The result of stored stress is "body bracing" which results in LGS, and then everything that follows (reflux, allergies, TMJ, ...). Just another angle - it certainly connects to what Ive been through, and stress sure plays a role in most illness.

CST is AMAZING for getting the balance of the parasympathetic/sympathetic systems where it should be.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

bluets - thanks!
yes, maybe more oils. right now i just take clo. my main issue with taking those kinds of oils is that it's hard to find a liquid version that doesn't contain extra garbage. i've tried to take them in capsules but i don't digest them at all.
vitamin c (except when from ascerola) makes my stomach burn like crazy so i avoid it.

annikate - i've done the scd in the past and never had great results. as for the GI doc, i agree. i can only imagine there are some super great, open-minded GI docs out there. the question is...how do you find them? it's not as easy to go by word of mouth like you might for a ped. i mean...most people don't ever have to go to see a GI specialist!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
bluets - thanks!
yes, maybe more oils. right now i just take clo. my main issue with taking those kinds of oils is that it's hard to find a liquid version that doesn't contain extra garbage. i've tried to take them in capsules but i don't digest them at all.
vitamin c (except when from ascerola) makes my stomach burn like crazy so i avoid it.


you won't find EPO in anything but capsule form because it is apparentl VERY bitter. however, i did notice today that Barleans makes a flax seed/ borage oil combo in liquid form.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

IIRC it's also in Udo's perfect blend.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
CST is AMAZING for getting the balance of the parasympathetic/sympathetic systems where it should be.

That's something Ive been thinking about, from the posts here and my symptoms (Ive read elsewhere that chiro can be effective for reflux). Now, how to find a great practitioner.

cademyn - I take hcl and digest gold with every meal. I think it helps a little but not much. Its so wierd how this came on, in that, it came on fast and a lot. I have chest pain much of the day, so much so that my bra strap sometimes exacerbates it. I dont feel reflux happen, although I have little burps throughout the day (but it feels like a little air) and my throat is sore (has been since the beginning of the diet). I found a recommendation to take 1 tsp of ginger juice every morning 2 hrs before eating anything for 3 wks - this is supposed to alleviate symptoms until you address the underlying cause (lgs? stress?). It seems like the digestion stuff would be linked to yeast? but I cant find much to support that.

For those who take enzymes with meals - how do you know how many to take? I take one w/ every protien meal, but wonder if I should take more. How would I know if it was too much - burning?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
For those who take enzymes with meals - how do you know how many to take? I take one w/ every protien meal, but wonder if I should take more. How would I know if it was too much - burning?

On the digestive enzymes I don't think you can really take too much. If you took so much that it didn't all get used up on the food, it would just replenish your body's natural supply of enzymes. With the HCL, you're supposed to keep increasing the dose by one tablet/capsule per meal until you get a burning sensation, and then your dose is one fewer than that. You may not be taking enough HCL to make a difference


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I did theHCL for a while and graduated from it. The most you are supposed to take is 6 pills. If you don't get a burning (or warm) sensation with 6 pills just stick with that until you do. Take them every meal. Eventually your body will start working better and 6 will be too many. Go down to 5 at the next meal. I found that I would drop down by 2 within a day or so and then be stuck on a plateau for a while. But right after I bought a new bottle I went from 2 a meal to O. I tried a couple more times just to be sure and always had that burning from just one pill so I know I'm done.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok so I took dd to the NAET woman for her first treament on Monday. We treated for milk but it didn't take. I didn't really expect it to work on the first try, it is such a major allergen for her. I was just hopeful...

Well tonight I decided to try out the muscle testing. Dh and I gathered a bunch of things from arrond the house and we tested each other and dd (through me and him) I felt like I had that part figured out from the exposure to it. It was so cool! DH was really impressed by it. We started out with him doing the pushing on my arm while I was holding dd and she was holding various substances. He couldn't beleive what a huge difference some things made.

Some of the findings were really surprising to me and yet thinking back to when I first cut out sugar 10 years ago they were in line with my findings then. I found back then that certain sugars bothered me much more than others. Honey wasn't ever a great sugar for me, but maple syrup was (in moderation). Well guess what? Maple syrup seemed to make me even stronger when I tested it and honey weaker. Unfortunatly every single sugar we tested dd with made her weaker, even the boiled down apple cider from a local organic orchard







: I think I now am certain why she has been so nuts lately. It is the apples. It just took a few days for it to start and so I missed the trigger.

We are all fine with coconut and walnuts (the only tree nut I had handy). Also oats, made each of us extra strong! but interestingly enough rice made us all weaker. DH and I both had mild weakness to eggs but dd was fine. DD seemed to even be reacting to the stevia.







:

We were all fine with Ghee but butter made us super weak.

Interestingly enough I was fine with the syrup made from evaporated cane juice (as was dh), but since dd isn't that doesn't help me.

Now I just need to learn what to do about all this info....

Oh and all 3 of us are quite sensitive to wheat but we already knew that.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
That's something Ive been thinking about, from the posts here and my symptoms (Ive read elsewhere that chiro can be effective for reflux). Now, how to find a great practitioner.

cademyn - I take hcl and digest gold with every meal. I think it helps a little but not much. Its so wierd how this came on, in that, it came on fast and a lot. I have chest pain much of the day, so much so that my bra strap sometimes exacerbates it. I dont feel reflux happen, although I have little burps throughout the day (but it feels like a little air) and my throat is sore (has been since the beginning of the diet). I found a recommendation to take 1 tsp of ginger juice every morning 2 hrs before eating anything for 3 wks - this is supposed to alleviate symptoms until you address the underlying cause (lgs? stress?). It seems like the digestion stuff would be linked to yeast? but I cant find much to support that.

For those who take enzymes with meals - how do you know how many to take? I take one w/ every protien meal, but wonder if I should take more. How would I know if it was too much - burning?

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Have you gone off the anti-candida diet now? I take Digest Gold with every meal no matter what I'm eating. I open up the caplet and then swallow, it ia a veggie cap and takes a lot longer to dissolve. I tried taking 2 caps but didn't find it any better, plus they are expensive pills.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

caedmyn-did you mention that you were going to start drinking kombucha?
I am still brewing my first batch and trying to decide if I should drink it. I don't want it to detox me too much so that it will affect DS.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I did theHCL for a while and graduated from it. The most you are supposed to take is 6 pills. If you don't get a burning (or warm) sensation with 6 pills just stick with that until you do. Take them every meal. Eventually your body will start working better and 6 will be too many. Go down to 5 at the next meal. I found that I would drop down by 2 within a day or so and then be stuck on a plateau for a while. But right after I bought a new bottle I went from 2 a meal to O. I tried a couple more times just to be sure and always had that burning from just one pill so I know I'm done.

I'm glad you posted this--I noticed that the HCL made a difference already in how I feel (indigestion-wise) in between meals and after drinking liquids. I wondered if it could make a difference so quickly even when I'm not taking it and apparently it can. I haven't tried to find my actual dose--one seems to get rid of the symptoms so I'll probably just stick with that. Now if only I had started the HCL two months ago when I first started having these symptoms...

Pattyla, do you feel that your herbal protocol is helping you?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
caedmyn-did you mention that you were going to start drinking kombucha?
I am still brewing my first batch and trying to decide if I should drink it. I don't want it to detox me too much so that it will affect DS.

I'm going to start very slowly after Thanksgiving when I get back from my IL's. I'm planning on giving some to DD, too...I figure it can't hurt as long as she's only getting a bit. From what I've read as long as you start very slowly it's okay while BF'ing. I don't see how the kombucha is going to detox/cause any more die-off that the water kefirs did, plus I've been doing several herbal infusions for liver support for a couple of months.

BTW...if anyone hasn't tried water kefirs, I would highly recommend them. I went from being slightly constipated and going once a day or less to having (warning TMI!) much bigger, softer stools 2-4x a day. There are so many things that have reputations as "magic bullets"...enzymes, the SCD, probiotics, etc. The only thing that has had that "magic bullet" effect for me is the water kefirs.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

annikate--did you give DD2 enzymes between meals at any point? If you did, how old was she and did you see any result from them? I'm debating about giving DD Candex to try to kill off some of her yeast.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

I've thought about taking HCL, but am worried...what if that's not my issue? What if I have sufficient acids - or worse...too much? Won't that potentially cause some significant problems if I take the HCL without a dx?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
annikate--did you give DD2 enzymes between meals at any point? If you did, how old was she and did you see any result from them? I'm debating about giving DD Candex to try to kill off some of her yeast.

No I didn't. I tried this with dd1 once and the results were horrendous. I don't know if it was die off or what but I never tried it again.

In looking at your dd's rash, it reminds me very much of dd1's. Looks very much the same. In the summer the sun seemed to make it worse. I know chlorine made it worse because it flared like crazy when she was swimming.

Once I started the reuteri I swear, her poopies became regular and her excema has not been back. That's the only thing I think I've changed. (And she doesn't get the reuteri on a regular basis anymore really - only when she asks for yogurt.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
I've thought about taking HCL, but am worried...what if that's not my issue? What if I have sufficient acids - or worse...too much? Won't that potentially cause some significant problems if I take the HCL without a dx?

From what Ive read,most people are low in acid (particularly blood Type A folks). The whole "antacid" craze is not really appropriate, as often it is low acid that produces reflux. The older one gets, the more common low acid is, and yet increased age is a predisposing factor for reflux. You could always try 1 hcl and see. I think you'll know pretty immediately. I got up to 3/meal and stopped there, then my AK said Id be good with 1, but maybe should go up again and see.

Nolansmum - I was thinking the same about you after seeing your beautiful boy - how emotional it is for you to work soo hard to help him and not know what will help. I havent gone off the yeast diet at all, which Ive been on nearly 4 mos. My yeasty symptoms are itchy ears, white tongue and a rash on one eyelid. These all started after starting the diet (except for the tongue, which got me started on the diet). The digestive stuff started around 6 wks ago and got progressively worse. It seems to coincidental that it happened in conjunction with the yeast stuff, and Ive found several references connecting yeast overgrowth/dysbiosis and reflux. I have no lower GI symptoms (no cramps, bloating, diarhea, constipation - not even a fart







) so maybe its all manifesting in upper GI? One interesting thing about the tongue, it has changed appearance since the relux started, and I diagnosed it using chinese medicine, and it shows screwed up digestion! Duh. How could yeast survive in the stomach though? Or maybe there's a bunch in my sm. intestine which is preventing food moving out of my stomach?

I definitely want to try the water kefir, but I think I need to kill [more] yeast first? So far, I havent had any die-off, no matter what or how much I use, except for the first few days of the diet (fatigue, but then again, I went off carbs coffee and chocolate in a day). I think Im going to try nystatin - I have a standing scrip, but have been giving the herbals a good effort first. And then after a month or two of that, add watr kefir?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm glad you posted this--I noticed that the HCL made a difference already in how I feel (indigestion-wise) in between meals and after drinking liquids. I wondered if it could make a difference so quickly even when I'm not taking it and apparently it can. I haven't tried to find my actual dose--one seems to get rid of the symptoms so I'll probably just stick with that. Now if only I had started the HCL two months ago when I first started having these symptoms...

Pattyla, do you feel that your herbal protocol is helping you?

It is hard to say, esp since I figured out that dd is reacting to the applesauce it is being delivered in.







I'm trying to stick it out since it was a 2 month recomendation and we are just half way through it right now. I'm going to start trying to get her to swallow them again so I can cut fruit out again.







Man I liked the fruit. Thanksgiving is going to be tough.







: we can clear the maple syrup on Monday. That would sure open up some foods for us.

I should mention that the yeast/parasite killer that dh and I are taking (and dd is getting through bm) is clearly having a huge impact on both of us. Dh is pretty impressed even. The die off is interesting and varried but it is certainly happening here. I'm sure looking foward to stopping it next week (3 weeks of taking it and then a break untill 5 days before the next full moon for 4 months)


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

i just heard back from the doc that the stool tests came back negative for bacteria (no big surprise there) but they didn't receive the results for the blood test. weird. they're going to check on those and then call me back. i told them i'm still having pain (although no more diarrhea), crampiness/gas after eating, and reflux. of course, the reflux set off big alarms and the nurse was like, "REFLUX?!"
i'm hoping he might be able to recommend a GI doc locally who has an open mind.
honestly, i'm so frustrated at feeling like shit all the time and am reluctant to see a GI doc but i'm thinking that might be the best choice. ack. this stuff blows.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
From what Ive read,most people are low in acid (particularly blood Type A folks). The whole "antacid" craze is not really appropriate, as often it is low acid that produces reflux. The older one gets, the more common low acid is, and yet increased age is a predisposing factor for reflux. You could always try 1 hcl and see. I think you'll know pretty immediately. I got up to 3/meal and stopped there, then my AK said Id be good with 1, but maybe should go up again and see.

Nolansmum - I was thinking the same about you after seeing your beautiful boy - how emotional it is for you to work soo hard to help him and not know what will help. I havent gone off the yeast diet at all, which Ive been on nearly 4 mos. My yeasty symptoms are itchy ears, white tongue and a rash on one eyelid. These all started after starting the diet (except for the tongue, which got me started on the diet). The digestive stuff started around 6 wks ago and got progressively worse. It seems to coincidental that it happened in conjunction with the yeast stuff, and Ive found several references connecting yeast overgrowth/dysbiosis and reflux. I have no lower GI symptoms (no cramps, bloating, diarhea, constipation - not even a fart







) so maybe its all manifesting in upper GI? One interesting thing about the tongue, it has changed appearance since the relux started, and I diagnosed it using chinese medicine, and it shows screwed up digestion! Duh. How could yeast survive in the stomach though? Or maybe there's a bunch in my sm. intestine which is preventing food moving out of my stomach?

I definitely want to try the water kefir, but I think I need to kill [more] yeast first? So far, I havent had any die-off, no matter what or how much I use, except for the first few days of the diet (fatigue, but then again, I went off carbs coffee and chocolate in a day). I think Im going to try nystatin - I have a standing scrip, but have been giving the herbals a good effort first. And then after a month or two of that, add watr kefir?

Yeast can live in your stomach if you don't have the right ph. A person from my parents church died 6 months ago basically from yeast. She had it in her esophogus and it got into her lungs and caused pneumonia and she died in the hospital (she was probably in her late 50's to mid 60's so not terribly old). She went down hill very, very fast and the Dr's didn't know what was wrong.







She wasn't in good health going into it but nothing like the last couple of months of her life.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
No I didn't. I tried this with dd1 once and the results were horrendous. I don't know if it was die off or what but I never tried it again.

In looking at your dd's rash, it reminds me very much of dd1's. Looks very much the same. In the summer the sun seemed to make it worse. I know chlorine made it worse because it flared like crazy when she was swimming.

Once I started the reuteri I swear, her poopies became regular and her excema has not been back. That's the only thing I think I've changed. (And she doesn't get the reuteri on a regular basis anymore really - only when she asks for yogurt.

Yeah the sun makes DD's face look worse, although she can get sun on her legs and that doesn't affect it. She does poop regularly now so I am happy about that. I may have to try the reuteri--I've been holding off because it has dairy in it. Hopefully a tiny bit of dairy won't affect her, though--I can't imagine that I haven't had trace amounts of dairy recently as much as we've been eating out.

I may just have to try the Candex and see what happens. I really think she needs an anti-fungal and I'm having trouble coming up with one that I feel is safe and gentle enough for her


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Yeah the sun makes DD's face look worse, although she can get sun on her legs and that doesn't affect it. She does poop regularly now so I am happy about that. I may have to try the reuteri--I've been holding off because it has dairy in it. Hopefully a tiny bit of dairy won't affect her, though--I can't imagine that I haven't had trace amounts of dairy recently as much as we've been eating out.

I may just have to try the Candex and see what happens. I really think she needs an anti-fungal and I'm having trouble coming up with one that I feel is safe and gentle enough for her

Funny, the sun never bothered dd1 before this year. And only for a short time too - and only on the face. Yeast is a tricky thing. I don't know definitively that dd's yeast is gone but the symptoms are no longer present. I can't imagine that the reuteri killed all the yeast but maybe it did.







I only had her on the anti-candida diet for 2 weeks and it was my own *modified* version anyway.









I hear ya about the candex. I'd be a little apprehensive too, but that's just me.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Yeast can live in your stomach if you don't have the right ph. A person from my parents church died 6 months ago basically from yeast. She had it in her esophogus and it got into her lungs and caused pneumonia and she died in the hospital (she was probably in her late 50's to mid 60's so not terribly old). She went down hill very, very fast and the Dr's didn't know what was wrong.







She wasn't in good health going into it but nothing like the last couple of months of her life.

Okay, as if I wasn't already worried enough . . .


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Okay, as if I wasn't already worried enough . . .










ditto.

Cademyn - I recall Moneca, from the Chelating Mamas thread, venturing into candex with her dd awhile back, maybe you could pm her?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

for yeast problems, there is scientific evidence that some strains of Lactobacillus plantarum are effective against Candida albicans - there's one isolate that completely obliterates Candida but other strains get Candida down to levels that are controllable by the remaining gut microbes.

when dh started his cleansing regimen a few months ago (gah - he didn't ask what everything was for...), he started on the Nutrition Now PB8 product containing L. plantarum along with 7 other microbes. when i stopped my UltraFlora Plus product, i had some intestinal issues until i spiked my kefir with a capsule of the PB8. now everything is just hunky dory. i imagine one could do the same with yogurt to see if it were helpful. and PB8 is on sale this month through Frontier Coops. PM me if anyone wants me to send a capsule or two through the mail (since we have some on hand anyway).

i also read a study that showed that various essential oils are selective against unfriendly microbes but not that harmful to desirable critters (only 20% loss of good ones but 80 to 95% loss to the bad ones). moreover, the oils survived digestion. might be worthwhile spiking beverages with a few drops of thyme oil, cinnamon oil, or oregano oil. of those 3, thyme oil and cinnamon oil require only very small concentrations - and the thyme and oregano oils have been shown to be effective on candida, not sure about cinnamon oil (which is good against pathogenic E coli). i haven't been able to sit down and figure out the possible dosages though...


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Just poking my nose in...we are Candex users. Or at least DD is. She used to have major yeast problems and _something_ we have done lately has gotten rid of it. She hasn't had yeasty behavioral symptoms in some time, and while her CDSA was never positive for yeast, the marker for it in her organic acid test (D-Arabinitol) is now within normal limits whereas it used to be in the 99+ percentile.

Our protocol has been to give a capsule of Candex in the morning and in the evening. It's supposed to be somewhat separated from food though or else it doesn't work much. Then also we've used a homeopathic supplement called Can Albex which our ped recommended...at first I thought it wasn't doing anything but it may well have helped also, since I know some homeopathic meds are supposed to work over time rather than instantaneously. She got three drops of Can Albex three times a day. We also did a few short courses of fluconazole. I don't know what of all these tactics worked, but DD has not had symptoms of yeast overgrowth for a couple of months now...knock on wood.

Of course, bad bacteria seem to have moved in to replace the yeast, but that's another story. We're working on that. Here's hoping those horrendously expensive Custom Probiotics are worth the money.







:


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

First of all - Caedmyn and Nolunsmum - what cuties you have! It's neat to see some faces behind the stories.

I'm starting to highly suspect that dd might have celiac disease. The more I read, the more it fits her to a tee. Also, I'm suspecting my Dad may be the genetic source. When I first started down this road of investigating, I kept reading things that would remind me of my Dad, but honestly, I think I had to just focus on us to survive. Now that I'm just a little more comfortable with some of this, I'm spending just a little time trying to convince him to give SCD a whirl. And he's gotten so bad off that he's about ready to give it a try (he is very kind and loving and patiently listens to me, but thinks I'm a little nuts about all this). The good news for me and the little one is that we're already doing SCD, so no new major stuff to investigate if it is, indeed, celiacs.

I also think that I'm not digesting fats properly. So, I'm about to go die-hard into the enzyme world. I've been dabbling a bit in it, but need to get serious. I was looking at some products, and Lypo (by enzymedica) looks good - anyone have any first hand experience with it or another lipase product?

What a journey all this is. I was just thinking today back to when I started SCD. I remember thinking "this is just for a little while. I can do this. I'll stick with it, and we'll be healed in 4 months." Ha. But you tell yourself what you have to at the moment to survive emotionally, right? I read people saying that they'd never go back to the way they were before, even after they healed. But I thought I was pretty healthy, so hey, that couldn't be me. I had no idea how much I had to learn . . . and now all I know is how much I still don't know! Ok, so enough pondering . . .

Two more questions - I try to space all my supplements out, but I'm running out of time in the day! So, are there absorption issues I need to be aware of if I combine? I keep my multi vit and calcium separate so the zinc (I think that's right??) doesn't interfere with calcium absorption, but what about other things? Can I take my probiotics with vit c? How about enzymes with other things?

And the last - are there any herbs/teas that are high in calcium that are SCD legal? I got excited about nettles til I checked and saw they are illegal.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

RE: yeast

Krissi just made me remember something else.

I posted earlier that the reuteri may have eliminated dd's yeasty symptoms. Now I think I know what really helped the most. The NCD drops. Our homeopath recommended them for dd2 and I gave them to dd1 jsut for the heck of it.

While I don't really think they act as a chelator for mercury (which is what we were going for by giving them to dd2), I am now really believing that they help to alkanalize the body. (dd's DAN doc believes this too.)

So . . . looking back, dd1's symptoms completely got better after starting those.

I took them too for a while and stopped at the rec. of the DAN doc. I really wish I could take them again though because they made my skin awesome. Now my skin has gone haywire. Breakouts and all.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
What a journey all this is. I was just thinking today back to when I started SCD. I remember thinking "this is just for a little while. I can do this. I'll stick with it, and we'll be healed in 4 months." Ha. But you tell yourself what you have to at the moment to survive emotionally, right? I read people saying that they'd never go back to the way they were before, even after they healed. But I thought I was pretty healthy, so hey, that couldn't be me. I had no idea how much I had to learn . . . and now all I know is how much I still don't know! Ok, so enough pondering . . .

I thought the same things!







The learning is like peeling an onion. Just when you think you understand it's like, wait a minute, there's MORE?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Two more questions - I try to space all my supplements out, but I'm running out of time in the day! So, are there absorption issues I need to be aware of if I combine? I keep my multi vit and calcium separate so the zinc (I think that's right??) doesn't interfere with calcium absorption, but what about other things? Can I take my probiotics with vit c? How about enzymes with other things?

As far as I know you can combine probiotics and/or enzymes w/vit c. I always take zinc at night before bed.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
for yeast problems, there is scientific evidence that some strains of Lactobacillus plantarum are effective against Candida albicans - there's one isolate that completely obliterates Candida but other strains get Candida down to levels that are controllable by the remaining gut microbes.

when dh started his cleansing regimen a few months ago (gah - he didn't ask what everything was for...), he started on the Nutrition Now PB8 product containing L. plantarum along with 7 other microbes. when i stopped my UltraFlora Plus product, i had some intestinal issues until i spiked my kefir with a capsule of the PB8. now everything is just hunky dory. i imagine one could do the same with yogurt to see if it were helpful. and PB8 is on sale this month through Frontier Coops. PM me if anyone wants me to send a capsule or two through the mail (since we have some on hand anyway).

i also read a study that showed that various essential oils are selective against unfriendly microbes but not that harmful to desirable critters (only 20% loss of good ones but 80 to 95% loss to the bad ones). moreover, the oils survived digestion. might be worthwhile spiking beverages with a few drops of thyme oil, cinnamon oil, or oregano oil. of those 3, thyme oil and cinnamon oil require only very small concentrations - and the thyme and oregano oils have been shown to be effective on candida, not sure about cinnamon oil (which is good against pathogenic E coli). i haven't been able to sit down and figure out the possible dosages though...

Ugh I passed on free samples of the PB8 at whole foods today. DD even put it in the cart at one point and I took it back out.







:


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I think dd is allergic to apples.







:

I managed to convince her to swallow her pills today w/o mixing them in anything. She is finally acting normal for the first time in a month. Since the







: behavior didn't start untill 4 days into having the applesauce I thought it must have another cause. My neighbor reminded me the other day that allergic reactions can be delayed up to 4 days. (I have read up to a week but either way). I figured if she had a reaction to the applesauce it would be an instant reaction to the sugar. I never considered an allergic reaction to the apples.

We muscle tested her last night on a apple cider syrup (just apple cider cooked down that a local organic orchard sells). She was weak.

Today at WF's I tested her on xylitol. She seems fine with it, but it doesn't appear that I am. At least we seem to have survived the oats for breakfast with no reprecussions.

Oh and I bought the Zyme Prime with the rice starch because I had read somewhere that many people on scd actually do better on that one. (Elaine said that it is technically legal but she didn't want people getting confused becasue rice isn't legal). Guess I have figured out why I'm getting an upset stomach after every meal when I take those. All three of us were quite sensitive to rice.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Gee Patty that stinks. Are you sure it was the apples?
I only ask because I thought the muscle testing was great for dd until it failed to show her wheat allergy. That's when I abandoned it all together. I believe in the premise, I just don't believe in its accuracy.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Has any one here tried anything with hydrogen peroxide? I seem to recall some discussion about it. I came across this and am considering trying it because I am in so much pain these days.


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## saratc (May 13, 2006)

Patty, did you test with organic apples? I was allergic to apples for many years until I tentatively ate an organic apple one day and realized that I had probably been allergic to pesticides all along. I always reacted to thin-skinned fruits. I am prone to allergies and very sensitive to chemicals, so whenever I am suspecting a food allergy, I try to rule out the chemical/additive association first (like PCBs in fish, bleach in white flour, etc).

The muscle testing stuff is so amazing. If I had watched someone do it a year ago, I would have thought it was hooey. But I watched DH get tested and it's wild how he goes from fully locked and strong to floppy fish in a second.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Gee Patty that stinks. Are you sure it was the apples?
I only ask because I thought the muscle testing was great for dd until it failed to show her wheat allergy. That's when I abandoned it all together. I believe in the premise, I just don't believe in its accuracy.

I think it is the apples. We have had the best day today that we have had in ages. The only difference is I didn't give her any fruit. I love having a good day but I hate the cost of it.

I'm begining to get a bit worried. I'm not getting the nutrients I need from food right now with all these food restrictions and since mine are so different from dd's I'll have to cut out twice as much as she does. I can tell I'm not getting what I need because I'm just achy all over and I don't feel right.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saratc* 
Patty, did you test with organic apples? I was allergic to apples for many years until I tentatively ate an organic apple one day and realized that I had probably been allergic to pesticides all along. I always reacted to thin-skinned fruits. I am prone to allergies and very sensitive to chemicals, so whenever I am suspecting a food allergy, I try to rule out the chemical/additive association first (like PCBs in fish, bleach in white flour, etc).

The muscle testing stuff is so amazing. If I had watched someone do it a year ago, I would have thought it was hooey. But I watched DH get tested and it's wild how he goes from fully locked and strong to floppy fish in a second.

Yup they were organic. And it was just apple cider so it should have bypassed an phenol issues as well.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

If wine gives me a migraine, would water kefir, too? Just wondering, because I'm thinking of trying to make some, but I don't want to go to all that trouble only to find it causes me nasty migraines.

Patty, are the anti-parasite herbs you're taking really safe for bfing?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
If wine gives me a migraine, would water kefir, too? Just wondering, because I'm thinking of trying to make some, but I don't want to go to all that trouble only to find it causes me nasty migraines.

Patty, are the anti-parasite herbs you're taking really safe for bfing?

They will do no harm to my lactation (won't dry me up or cause me to chelate) and they are safe for a child my dd's age. (nearly 3). I can tell that my dd is going through her own milder die off from them herself. (she needs to)


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

Once I started the reuteri I swear, her poopies became regular and her excema has not been back.
Annikate.....What brand of Reuteri did you and your dc take?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Caedmyn-You DD is a cutie! And her eczema is so good! DS's is rarely that good.
Here is a picture of DS on an average day:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...s/DSCF1873.jpg
sometimes it is itchy.

Ds always sleeps on his tummy now. When he was first born we put him on his back because they told us to, but after a few weeks we tried the tummy and he seemed much happier. We also let him sleep in his car seat or bouncy seat because being upright helped his reflux a lot.

Hi Jane! How's everything going with your DS? How are you doing?

Your ds is a doll!

His eczema looks just like my dd's on her knees, and I know that the lacy appearance of it is due to yeast (did you see Birthjunkie's photos of her dd in the Threelac thread? Seems similar to me). You might try gentian violet or something on his cheeks to see if it improves. Also, if he's sleeping on his tummy, the sheets on the bed could be reinfecting him. I used to have dd sleep in the same pjs a couple nights in a row, but now that I change them daily, her yeast is better, too (we're also doing Threelac).


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

We went to the allergist and he did the skin prick test. I thought soy was the culprit (other than dairy), but it's corn. Oh my gosh, is corn pervasive! I had no idea. I thought avoiding diary was difficult, but corn is a million times worse.







: Thank goodness i have a friend who went through corn (and other allergies) with her dc. I don't know what I'd do without her.

Many of the supplements I've been giving dd have corn ingredients, so I'll have to find new ones. I'm trying to stay positive, but I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now.


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Speaking of reuteri. . . the only brand I know of is Nature's Way, and it has rice starch in it. I've been putting it in with the yogurt starter, and really think it's beneficial. But not legal. So when I get to the point of actually starting SCD, I guess I should just drop it? I seem to remember that there aren't any other brands?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama-a-llama* 
Speaking of reuteri. . . the only brand I know of is Nature's Way, and it has rice starch in it. I've been putting it in with the yogurt starter, and really think it's beneficial. But not legal. So when I get to the point of actually starting SCD, I guess I should just drop it? I seem to remember that there aren't any other brands?

Do any of those custom probiotics have ruteri as an option? We need to avoid rice here too (although ruteri seems to help dd, hmmm... I think it has potato starch not rice...)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So anyone else on here feel inspired to become some kind of alternative health practitioner based on your experiences with coping with this? There is a chiro school that is local (people come from all over to go to it) that I am now considering for the future... Seems like chiro's get to do a bit of everything and are well respected by most, even mainstream types. Talked to my acupuncturist last night about it and he said he thinks I would be good at it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i'm a bit puzzled about SCD, yogurt and kefir... i recall that kefir is illegal but (having never read the book) i don't quite understand why.

kefir contains a sufficiently large spectrum of organisms to effectively COLONIZE the gut while yogurt contains only a few organisms that are transient in the gut. it would seem to me, if one is trying to correct digestive issues, that changing the microbial flora permanently through a recolonization would be key. letting the kefir ferment long enough to completely breakdown lactose and casein should resolve those concerns.

so that's why i'm puzzled.

kefir is just so much easier to make. you can spike it with your favorite microbes. in the "extra" time (instead of babysitting milk on the stove), you can play with your dc.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i'm a bit puzzled about SCD, yogurt and kefir... i recall that kefir is illegal but (having never read the book) i don't quite understand why.

kefir contains a sufficiently large spectrum of organisms to effectively COLONIZE the gut while yogurt contains only a few organisms that are transient in the gut. it would seem to me, if one is trying to correct digestive issues, that changing the microbial flora permanently through a recolonization would be key. letting the kefir ferment long enough to completely breakdown lactose and casein should resolve those concerns.

so that's why i'm puzzled.

kefir is just so much easier to make. you can spike it with your favorite microbes. in the "extra" time (instead of babysitting milk on the stove), you can play with your dc.

It has to do with getting rid of all the lactose and her (Elaines) fear of unknown/unstudied microbes. There is some debate on what it takes to get rid of all the lactose in kefir and that hasn't been well studied. And Elaine in general was pretty conservative as to which bacteria she recomended. She seemed to distrust all but a few that she felt were well studied. And since you don't pasturize kefir she had a fear that a pathogen would get in there and be cultured and since our guts are already compromised a ploferated pathogenic bacteria is really dangerous.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
So anyone else on here feel inspired to become some kind of alternative health practitioner based on your experiences with coping with this? There is a chiro school that is local (people come from all over to go to it) that I am now considering for the future... Seems like chiro's get to do a bit of everything and are well respected by most, even mainstream types. Talked to my acupuncturist last night about it and he said he thinks I would be good at it.

i've toyed with the idea of going to a naturpathic school. but we'd have to move and really scale back - this just isn't the time for that.

my latest is doing an M.S. in nutrition online through bridgeport.edu - though it would cost $5000 per semester or so and i'd need to do some prerequisites beforehand (those pesky human anatomy and basic nutrition courses). and the books would be extra (And they ain't cheap). so maybe i'll save up for it - i think dh and i just make too much money for us to even qualify for loans.

so i'm settling on getting a holistic moms (http://holisticmoms.org) chapter started locally.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

I posted earlier that the reuteri may have eliminated dd's yeasty symptoms. Now I think I know what really helped the most. The NCD drops. Our homeopath recommended them for dd2 and I gave them to dd1 jsut for the heck of it.
I hadn't thought of that. Interesting thought. In DD's case we hadn't started the NCD drops until her yeast had already gone into remission of a sorts, so probably not a factor for her though that does make me wonder. Our DAN thinks that DD isn't benefiting from NCD as much as she should because she still has moderate to severe gut inflammation...so it's maybe not getting absorbed.







: She said to stop the drops for now and try again in a few months after we attack the inflammation more. She has us starting a bunch of new prescription homeopathics. I hope it works. I do think the Candex/Can Albex helped a great deal w/keeping yeast under control.

I'm very nervous that it'll come back though. I cannot cut all sugar out of DD's diet; she's SCD compliant except for some illegal supplements, but apples are too much of a mainstay still.

Quote:

So anyone else on here feel inspired to become some kind of alternative health practitioner based on your experiences with coping with this?
Me too! I'm actually starting the application process to go "back to school" and become a registered dietitian. If I go through with it I plan to specialize in gut healing and digestive health.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi* 
I hadn't thought of that. Interesting thought. In DD's case we hadn't started the NCD drops until her yeast had already gone into remission of a sorts, so probably not a factor for her though that does make me wonder. Our DAN thinks that DD isn't benefiting from NCD as much as she should because she still has moderate to severe gut inflammation...so it's maybe not getting absorbed.







: She said to stop the drops for now and try again in a few months after we attack the inflammation more. She has us starting a bunch of new prescription homeopathics. I hope it works. I do think the Candex/Can Albex helped a great deal w/keeping yeast under control.

I'm very nervous that it'll come back though. I cannot cut all sugar out of DD's diet; she's SCD compliant except for some illegal supplements, but apples are too much of a mainstay still.


How do you know her gut is still inflamed???


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

How do you know her gut is still inflamed???
She had a CDSA recently that had super high levels of lysozyme.







And SIgA...and occult blood. And nasty bacteria. I was really shocked that it could still be so bad. We just did an OAT too and it came back with metabolites of several bad types of bacteria including Clostridia.







:

The yeast being down was really the only GOOD news we got. We just started a really high dose of Custom Probiotics; hoping that'll help clear the bad bacteria a bit. Her poops are looking a little bit better lately.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

How reliable are stool tests? Sometimes the test comes back showing no yeast, like Krissi's DD, and oter times it shows the same (annikate's dd) but you dont trust it. Ive seen several times that yeast commonly comes with another bacterial infection (c. dificile, for example), and Ive been getting curious about just what is going on in there.

On that note, I wonder if you can help me make sense of my symptoms. IF the gerd is related to yeast/dysbiosis, why would it start after starting the diet/antifungals? Also, why would I have no die-off this whole time? Many of you, and many of the sources Ive read, seem to say that you will feel better after starting to address yeast/dysbiosis, but I feel exactly the same, actually worse. This would not bother me if there were some die-off stages happening, but its been 4 mos. Could it be that the yeast is just totally out of control and continued to spread even after I started treating it? That seems to make the most sense, and yet, if what Im doing hasnt stemmed the tide, what can I do!!?

I also have a question about probiotics - my understanding is that they keep yeast at bay by producing lactic acid which yeast does not like. But, you need room in your gut for the good bugs to stick and flourish, right? So to take pb's with the intent of *killing* yeast isnt really accurate, is it, without first/simultaneously killing the yeast with diet/antifungals? Im wondering b/c when bluets says plantarum kills yeast, Im not sure what to think.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

saskiasmom - are you off grains completely? what diet changes did you do around the time that your gerd symptoms started?

the reason i ask... a few years ago, i basically dumped most grains from my diet and started getting heartburn. not because i was constipated but because my digestion slowed way down in the upper GI tract and was putting a lot of pressure on my stomach. it wasn't that i couldn't "go", rather it was that i didn't even have to "go" - everything was stuck far far away from my bowels. the second i started oatmeal again, things got moving and the heartburn went away. my stupid then-doc's solution was to put me on samples of prilosec but i persevered and figured out the real solution on my own.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

ot but I'm off to have a dinner date w/dh (first time since dd1 was born!)

I'll catch up later.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

also OT

annikate - so that must mean you've started reading "Mojo Mom" ?









(a very good book if anyone else here has felt like they've lost their pre-mommy "Mojo" -- i learned about it from Cathe's blog)


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

I don't think stool tests are reliable for yeast. The stool test has never shown up positive for DD, but she had the highly elevated D-Arabinitol in the organic acid test, which is supposedly a pretty reliable yeast marker because D-Arabinitol is not naturally occuring in the body but is created by the yeast themselves. Also she had massive improvements from antifungals. The only reason I believe that the yeast is under control now is that the D-Arabinitol is also down. I would look into an organic acid test from Metametrix; you only need 12 mls of urine to run it. It gives a lot of other useful info too.

I had a link at one point about why the stool tests are unreliable, but I think it was that the yeast is often growing a lot higher in the digestive tract so that there's not much of it coming off in the stool.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
also OT

annikate - so that must mean you've started reading "Mojo Mom" ?









(a very good book if anyone else here has felt like they've lost their pre-mommy "Mojo" -- i learned about it from Cathe's blog)

No - it means our au pair is here!







:
BUT the book is sitting on my kitchen counter waiting to be read.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krissi* 
I don't think stool tests are reliable for yeast. The stool test has never shown up positive for DD, but she had the highly elevated D-Arabinitol in the organic acid test, which is supposedly a pretty reliable yeast marker because D-Arabinitol is not naturally occuring in the body but is created by the yeast themselves. Also she had massive improvements from antifungals. The only reason I believe that the yeast is under control now is that the D-Arabinitol is also down. I would look into an organic acid test from Metametrix; you only need 12 mls of urine to run it. It gives a lot of other useful info too.

I had a link at one point about why the stool tests are unreliable, but I think it was that the yeast is often growing a lot higher in the digestive tract so that there's not much of it coming off in the stool.

Yeah, I wish I hadn't spent the $ on dd's CDSA really (dd1's that is.) She clearly had signs of yeast but the test didn't show it.

The only reason I'm glad I did the test is because it showed me that she had literally NO beneficial bacteria (despite her consumption of the SCD yogurt.) That's when I added the reuteri.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

annikate - did the test show whether her gut is/was acid or alkaline?

bluets - I changed my diet from a grain, albeit whole, and low fat to high fat, no grain. The gerd symptoms started about 2 wks after the change (sore throat and feeling like a pill is stuck) and then really kicked in (chest pain, feeling like food is sitting in my chest) about a month ago. Doc gave me a scrip for prilosec too, which I tossed. Dh suspects its diet related, yet if I have yeast, I *need* to be on this diet for awhile. Its too coincidental that the diet/yeast/gerd started at the same time, there must be some link, no? But Im also wondering why I havent had ANY change in the yeast, not even die-off (and I have taken some serious quantities of raw garlic, oregano oil. etc). I am having regular bm's (every a.m., like always) but the consistency is different. Thanks for thinking about it


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

since a lot of us migrated from the eczema tribe, i thought i would point out this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=561099

thoughts?

saskiasmom -are you sure it is gerd? what about a hiatal hernia? you've prolly mentioned it before but this is a huge thread! -- have you tried conventional yeast killers like diflucan or nystatin ?

i recall having a case of thrush (yes, the oral kind) one summer during university, pre-internet else i woulda searched for the answer myself. ended up in the E.R. twice because nobody could diagnose it and the pharmacies kept telling me that there wasn't an oral form of nystatin - only a suppository. haha. but i strongly recall that "pill in your throat" feeling coupled with swollen lymph nodes. i was in quebec in a french-speaking area and the doctors kept talking about these "champignons" (mushrooms) in my throat. anywho... a round of oral nystatin felt awesome albeit quite constipating.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Its too coincidental that the diet/yeast/gerd started at the same time, there must be some link, no? But Im also wondering why I havent had ANY change in the yeast, not even die-off (and I have taken some serious quantities of raw garlic, oregano oil. etc). I am having regular bm's (every a.m., like always) but the consistency is different. Thanks for thinking about it









i don't doubt that they are connected.

how do you know you're yeasty? what are your yeasty symptoms?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thrush is white, right?

I've posted here about this a while back, but any thoughts are appreciated.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=561551


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

http://www.integrativenutrition.com/ Here's what I'm doing now. I have already done the traditional nutrition thing, but am very disappointed by what is currently offered. I'd have to bet you'd all feel the same way. This program is different because it takes into account the differences in physiology/spirituality and tradition. Deepak Chopra and Andrew Weil are both on staff. Sally Fallon was...still wondering what happened to that!

What I really want to pursue is a degree in Primal Health. That's a bit into the future though. I think the entire paradigm of health needs to shift, and that's what I want to be a part of.

Corn is a tough one! We are off it as well, and will stay off of it as I have migrated back to the SCD. It's very hard to find supplements.

Yes, Custom probiotics do have reuteri options.

We have started our custom blend and I am adding another strain once it gets here on Monday. I have my fingers crossed. IT seems as though it's helping. IT hasn't increased the frequency of poop, but the last diaper left a horrible yeasty rash on his bottom, so clearly we are moving in the right direction. I'm hoping the next step is proper peristalsis.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
http://www.integrativenutrition.com/ Here's what I'm doing now. I have already done the traditional nutrition thing, but am very disappointed by what is currently offered. I'd have to bet you'd all feel the same way. This program is different because it takes into account the differences in physiology/spirituality and tradition. Deepak Chopra and Andrew Weil are both on staff. Sally Fallon was...still wondering what happened to that!

What I really want to pursue is a degree in Primal Health. That's a bit into the future though. I think the entire paradigm of health needs to shift, and that's what I want to be a part of.

Corn is a tough one! We are off it as well, and will stay off of it as I have migrated back to the SCD. It's very hard to find supplements.

Yes, Custom probiotics do have reuteri options.

We have started our custom blend and I am adding another strain once it gets here on Monday. I have my fingers crossed. IT seems as though it's helping. IT hasn't increased the frequency of poop, but the last diaper left a horrible yeasty rash on his bottom, so clearly we are moving in the right direction. I'm hoping the next step is proper peristalsis.


How did you figure out what to get from them?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I didn't. I wanted one thing and got talked into another. The main strain I wanted was the B. infantis but Harry wasn't comfortable that the infantis strain was as dairy free as the B. bifidus strain. They are all technically dairy free, but when I explained how severe Emrys' reaction is he said that he didn't want to attempt it. I went with his rec's based on our situation.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
I also have a question about probiotics - my understanding is that they keep yeast at bay by producing lactic acid which yeast does not like. But, you need room in your gut for the good bugs to stick and flourish, right? So to take pb's with the intent of *killing* yeast isnt really accurate, is it, without first/simultaneously killing the yeast with diet/antifungals? Im wondering b/c when bluets says plantarum kills yeast, Im not sure what to think.

ok, Im quoting myself








In addition to this, I still dont understand how probiotics work. The ones that are considered *colonizing*, well, it seems like these only colonize as long as you take them. Is it *just* a matter of taking these things (in whatever form) for years, while your flora slowly regulate? Does your flora ever become self-sustaining, without ingesting prob's? Do people start life with relatively balanced flora (assuming all the right circumstances), and then once that's screwed up, reinoculating yourself is difficult because the bugs are not native? It seems like there are a lot of products (vsl#3 is one example) that say you will lose the benefits 3 wks after you stop taking it. So where are the bugs that burrow in and make a home!!?

Bluets - I have a jar of nystatin powder in my fridge - that's the next thing. I dont know what is going on with me - the yeast symptoms are rash on eyelid, itchy ears and white tongue. Then I started having sore throat and globus. The symptom that started me on the diet/antifungals was a white tongue, everything else has added on while on since. I do have sore glands on and off under my earlobes on my neck - dont know what's going on there. And maybe it is a hernia...







:







:

Annikate - yeah, its white - the white fur is thicker and whiter than *normal*, and can have cheesy looking patches, which I think is more standard (as in, md's dont think a white tongue is thrush).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

my growing understanding (though not quite complete) is that whilst healing, one needs to take extra probiotics but that capsules are insufficient - those probiotics need to be in a cultured medium. once healing is accomplished, one can probably back off to a maintenance level of cultured foods. remember that WA Price found that traditional diets (for healthy people) contained a variety of types of cultured products - pickles and/or sauerkraut and/or cultured dairy etc. (including my favorite - wine!).

scientists have been using animal models to determine how microbes colonize various regions of the gut. from this paper, http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/71/1/428, the authors state the following:

Therefore, despite similar in vitro probiotic properties, distinct Lactobacillus strains may colonize the gut differently and generate divergent immune responses.

scientists have also been looking at the degree of transient attachment, as in this study - http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...gi?artid=91031. these authors concluded with the following statement:

This study showed that strain GG was able to attach in vivo to colonic mucosae and, although the attachment was temporary, to remain for more than a week after discontinuation of GG administration. The results demonstrate that the study of fecal samples alone is not sufficient in evaluating colonization by a probiotic strain.

now, for some conditions, it may take extremely potent fermented cultures. the authors of this paper http://www.springerlink.com/content/qtn710770274lu92/ conclude with the following statement:

Yogurt did not induce any significant changes in intestinal flora, whether it was produced with Lactobacillus acidophilus or Lactobacillus GG. In conclusion, in acute prehepatic portal hypertension, bacteriotherapy with Lactobacillus was unable to induce changes in bacterial translocation probably because it was unable to induce changes in bacterial flora.

so what affects colonization ability? saskiasmom, you are correct partly - they do need a substrate onto which they can attach. i think i read that plantarum can attach almost anywhere in the gut whereas other strains have more specific regions of the gut where they are most effective.

the other component, it turns out, is the rate of growth of the microbial population. this paper http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/2/670 gave me a "well, duh" moment.

"It is estimated that the lactobacilli would have to achieve an average doubling time of 1.03 to 2.04 days to colonize the various sections of the mouse intestinal tract more permanently."

so.... you need a probiotic mixture containing critters than can attach in various places in your gut AND you need to make sure that at least some of those critters can increase their population size very rapidly. perhaps FOS or inulin aren't so bad after all - they might be able to provide enough of a substrate for the good critters to rapidly multiply and then push out the bad ones.

[Lactobacillus GG is a model study strain and has been the subject of much research]


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 

Bluets - I have a jar of nystatin powder in my fridge - that's the next thing. I dont know what is going on with me - the yeast symptoms are rash on eyelid, itchy ears and white tongue. Then I started having sore throat and globus. The symptom that started me on the diet/antifungals was a white tongue, everything else has added on while on since. I do have sore glands on and off under my earlobes on my neck - dont know what's going on there. And maybe it is a hernia...







:







:



i wouldn't be surprised if the sore glands were related to the yeast. your body is fighting something - hence the swollen glands. maybe this is how dieoff is manifesting itslef in your body.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

*Re: Speculation on Probiotics*

First of all, Bluets;







thank you

So it sounds like it IS very hard to recolonize ones gut. While the Georgians (Russian) have achieved health benefits from eating yogurt regularly, there are many folks who dont ingest any probiotics and live relatively healthy long lives. I am starting to think that you have to have your flora compromised in some way to necessitate taking probiotics for the rest of ones life. That is, if you dont do anything to really damage the balance, you dont *have* to do something to keep the balance, but once its damaged, it never really returns to that balance?

As for FOS and inulin, this is something Im going to look into more (particularly inulin, which supposedly has a longer chain length and so is therefore not available to yeast - hmm), but I guess the underlying question is, what exactly makes the bugs attach and stay there. How did the good bugs we have currently attach and stay there (hence the question about birth - does it happen then? So we need fast multipliers and food in there for them so they can attach... ok. Have to go read more...


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

More...

"The high counts of endogenous lactic acid bacteria associated with colonic biopsies mean that the probiotic strain faces strong competition when establishing itself. This may well be one of the reasons that permanent colonization by a probiotic strain seldom, if ever, occurs."

Then are we trying to get our endogenous to multiply (by perhaps feeding them?) rather than trying to get ingested probiotics to attach?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I didn't. I wanted one thing and got talked into another. The main strain I wanted was the B. infantis but Harry wasn't comfortable that the infantis strain was as dairy free as the B. bifidus strain. They are all technically dairy free, but when I explained how severe Emrys' reaction is he said that he didn't want to attempt it. I went with his rec's based on our situation.

UAS makes a supposedly corn and dairy free acidophilus/bifidus probiotic. It contains FOS, though, so I guess it's not SCD legal.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hi mamas,

You all were my home for months & I wanted to post an update on us









Lots of love to you all,
Amy

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=561678


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama* 
Hi mamas,

You all were my home for months & I wanted to post an update on us









Lots of love to you all,
Amy

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=561678









I've been thinking about you!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We've missed you!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Your ds is a doll!

His eczema looks just like my dd's on her knees, and I know that the lacy appearance of it is due to yeast (did you see Birthjunkie's photos of her dd in the Threelac thread? Seems similar to me). You might try gentian violet or something on his cheeks to see if it improves. Also, if he's sleeping on his tummy, the sheets on the bed could be reinfecting him. I used to have dd sleep in the same pjs a couple nights in a row, but now that I change them daily, her yeast is better, too (we're also doing Threelac).

Thank you, I do not change his sheets everyday, I do change his pj''s. He is a tummy sleeper so this may be important. He also has a blankie /soother that he sleeps with. I will try the gentian violet again. I will also disinfect all his bottles, nipples, and my pump parts too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kundalini-Mama* 
Hi mamas,

You all were my home for months & I wanted to post an update on us









Lots of love to you all,
Amy

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=561678

Your update made me cry! I have been praying for you and your family. All the best to you


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

to you Kundalini-mama. Glad to hear from you, and that you had good news about ds.

I know there is at least one WAHM here who does SCD. How do you do it? Do you cook a bunch on weekends and then freeze it all? Do you have menus, use a crock pot religiously? I am so disorganized, I feel like I should be able to cook meals without it taking up all my time, but it seems like it does. I was thinking of taking a part-time job, just weekends, to give me some structure, if that makes sense. I'm so scattered. I don't know if it's the depression, or some other mental thing. I am pretty sure I have ADD, although when I tried meds for it they just made me angry.
I would love someone to keep me organized, but at the same time I know I would probably resist a lot of their efforts because I am such a rebel. Silly, huh?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 







to you Kundalini-mama. Glad to hear from you, and that you had good news about ds.

I know there is at least one WAHM here who does SCD. How do you do it? Do you cook a bunch on weekends and then freeze it all? Do you have menus, use a crock pot religiously? I am so disorganized, I feel like I should be able to cook meals without it taking up all my time, but it seems like it does. I was thinking of taking a part-time job, just weekends, to give me some structure, if that makes sense. I'm so scattered. I don't know if it's the depression, or some other mental thing. I am pretty sure I have ADD, although when I tried meds for it they just made me angry.
I would love someone to keep me organized, but at the same time I know I would probably resist a lot of their efforts because I am such a rebel. Silly, huh?

I work almost full time and am on SCD. It is challenging. I feel like I am in the kitchen all the time. I try to do the majority of my cooking at night after DS goes to bed at 7:30 so that the next day all I have to do is heat up food. Here is a thread that has helped me get more organized:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=390670
I am still trying to figure out how to cook more in large quantities and freeze. I find that making the fermented foods and the kombucha are the things that take me the most extra time. And then there is the mess to clean up after the cooking...
Sorry I am not much help.


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## AngelaVA (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi everyone! I hope you have room for one more. I am taking digestive enzymes and probiotics to help my nursing DD with blood in her stools. It has been helping, I have been taking it for three weeks and she hasn't had any blood in her stools for two weeks. I am, however, having some sharp little pains in my stomach (nothing terrible, just mildly annoying) and very frequent bowel movements - about three times a day (sorry-tmi) but not diarhea. Also, if I don't eat every few hours I get really shakey, like I have low blood sugar or something. I thought maybe this was a sign I was taking too much, but when I cut back for a day, DD's had a little blood in one of her stools. Do I need to adjust my supplements or give my body more time to adjust to them?

P.S. Supplements are: GNC multi enzyme formula, 1 capsul at every meal and kyodopholis capsule with 1.5 billion cells twice a day


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I know there is at least one WAHM here who does SCD. How do you do it? Do you cook a bunch on weekends and then freeze it all? Do you have menus, use a crock pot religiously? I am so disorganized, I feel like I should be able to cook meals without it taking up all my time, but it seems like it does. I was thinking of taking a part-time job, just weekends, to give me some structure, if that makes sense. I'm so scattered. I don't know if it's the depression, or some other mental thing. I am pretty sure I have ADD, although when I tried meds for it they just made me angry.
I would love someone to keep me organized, but at the same time I know I would probably resist a lot of their efforts because I am such a rebel. Silly, huh?

i'm not doing SCD but we aren't exactly eating junk either. in fact, probably most of the things we eat would be considered SCD legal. who needs a starchy potato/rice at every meal anyway? just 1 less pot for dh to clean...

what i do is plan out every meal and commit it to paper. then i also make a list of when to do what things. so if i want to soak nuts, i have that listed as an evening task with the next day's task being "dry nuts".

i sit down either friday night or sat afternoon (during ds's nap) and make a menu plan for the week. while i'm doing that, i construct my grocery list (i try to buy most things locally and build around what is available) - we only stop at 2 stores usually - the butcher shop and the food coop. after ds's nap, we make our weekly grocery run.

i've been baking for the past few weeks to make sure that we have good snacky things at the ILs over the rest of this week. i included that activity on the weekly chart (and grocery list) as well and do it in the evening after ds is in bed - though in my case that is more like 9pm on a good night.

dh and i go home at lunchtime so i manage to squeeze in a few tasks then.

dh's responsibility is to clean the kitchen after dinner. we got into this habit early on in our togetherness - she who makes meals doesn't have to clean up. though i try really hard to make cleanup as easy as possible (queen of the one-pot meal). we grill A LOT on the BBQ, so ds gets to help dh with that - though not so much now that the weather is crappy. when i bake in the evening, i clean up as i go along so that the kitchen isn't a huge disaster in the morning (my pet peeve is going down to a messy kitchen first thing in the morning).


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 







to you Kundalini-mama. Glad to hear from you, and that you had good news about ds.

I know there is at least one WAHM here who does SCD. How do you do it? Do you cook a bunch on weekends and then freeze it all? Do you have menus, use a crock pot religiously? I am so disorganized, I feel like I should be able to cook meals without it taking up all my time, but it seems like it does. I was thinking of taking a part-time job, just weekends, to give me some structure, if that makes sense. I'm so scattered. I don't know if it's the depression, or some other mental thing. I am pretty sure I have ADD, although when I tried meds for it they just made me angry.
I would love someone to keep me organized, but at the same time I know I would probably resist a lot of their efforts because I am such a rebel. Silly, huh?

I'm a wohm (50+ hours usually) and dh is now working outside the home, too (he stayed home with our first). It is very hard. Very hard. But, like bluets, I put everything down on paper. I have a matrix that I print out for every week that has everything about our life on it: who is taking care of the kids that day (we have different folks on diff days), who is taking dd to school, what is going in her lunch box, what time everyone is going to work and will be home by, what's for dinner, what the prep needs to be that night after kids are in bed for the next day. I then create a grocery list to go with that week, with designations for what needs to be picked up at the farmer's market vs. whole foods. I now have 4 weeks worth of meal plans and corresponding grocery lists, and am going to start rotating them. My next challenge is to combine two weeks worth and reduce my number of trips to the store and farmer's market (right now I'm doing both every week, with other errands, too, and it is out of control).

The really hard thing for me has been that I am on such a limited SCD diet due to the little one's food intolerances and the fact that I must introduce things really slowly. Mix that with my dh, who while supportive, needs more food than what I can eat in order to stay sane. So, while I don't quite double plan, I do plan in such a way that he and dd #1 can still eat healthy, but have more variety than just what I can eat. He does a lot of cooking and cleaning, but I'm in charge of the planning, and that takes a lot of time right now.

I use the crockpot a lot, and on the weekends I cook, cook, cook. That's when I make my yogurt (for dh and dd#1 - no dairy for me







), broth and soak nuts. I also try to make a few batches of things that I can freeze in indiv portions (soup, nut muffins, cooked fruit compote, etc). We have a big chest freezer, and there is no way I could do SCD without it. This weekend I made a double batch of SCD chicken soup that filled up 5 quart mason jars, so that should last me a while! I try to double everything - even chickens. This weekend I roasted one for dinner and soup, the other I did in the crockpot, froze all the meat, and then used the bones for crockpot stock.

I have seriously contemplated trying to find someone whom I could pay to make some things for me (especially the basics). But I haven't had the time to think through how I would want to do it and search someone out.

I can honestly say that while we're better off eating like this, the stress of it all is high for me (and is taking a toll - my next mission is to figure out how to find time to do yoga to destress from it!) But as the learning curve evens out a bit, I'm feeling a bit more competent and things will get easier and better, I'm sure. I often wish some of you all were around here in real life - wouldn't it be awesome to be able to do some food swaps!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelaVA* 
Hi everyone! I hope you have room for one more. I am taking digestive enzymes and probiotics to help my nursing DD with blood in her stools. It has been helping, I have been taking it for three weeks and she hasn't had any blood in her stools for two weeks. I am, however, having some sharp little pains in my stomach (nothing terrible, just mildly annoying) and very frequent bowel movements - about three times a day (sorry-tmi) but not diarhea. Also, if I don't eat every few hours I get really shakey, like I have low blood sugar or something. I thought maybe this was a sign I was taking too much, but when I cut back for a day, DD's had a little blood in one of her stools. Do I need to adjust my supplements or give my body more time to adjust to them?

P.S. Supplements are: GNC multi enzyme formula, 1 capsul at every meal and kyodopholis capsule with 1.5 billion cells twice a day

Welcome!
I know there is at least one mama on here dealing w/the same issues in her dc. Hopefully, they'll chime in.

If your stools are not d. perhaps then, this is a *normal* pattern for you? I think *normal* can fall into the range of 1 - 3 x per day.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i've been baking for the past few weeks to make sure that we have good snacky things at the ILs over the rest of this week. i included that activity on the weekly chart (and grocery list) as well and do it in the evening after ds is in bed - though in my case that is more like 9pm on a good night.

dh and i go home at lunchtime so i manage to squeeze in a few tasks then.

dh's responsibility is to clean the kitchen after dinner. we got into this habit early on in our togetherness - she who makes meals doesn't have to clean up. though i try really hard to make cleanup as easy as possible (queen of the one-pot meal). we grill A LOT on the BBQ, so ds gets to help dh with that - though not so much now that the weather is crappy. when i bake in the evening, i clean up as i go along so that the kitchen isn't a huge disaster in the morning (my pet peeve is going down to a messy kitchen first thing in the morning).

I am also baking for the trip. And my BIGGEST pet peeve is waking up to dirty dishes too. :irk It makes my day start off sucky.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I'm a wohm (50+ hours usually) and dh is now working outside the home, too (he stayed home with our first). It is very hard. Very hard. But, like bluets, I put everything down on paper. I have a matrix that I print out for every week that has everything about our life on it: who is taking care of the kids that day (we have different folks on diff days), who is taking dd to school, what is going in her lunch box, what time everyone is going to work and will be home by, what's for dinner, what the prep needs to be that night after kids are in bed for the next day. I then create a grocery list to go with that week, with designations for what needs to be picked up at the farmer's market vs. whole foods. I now have 4 weeks worth of meal plans and corresponding grocery lists, and am going to start rotating them. My next challenge is to combine two weeks worth and reduce my number of trips to the store and farmer's market (right now I'm doing both every week, with other errands, too, and it is out of control).

The really hard thing for me has been that I am on such a limited SCD diet due to the little one's food intolerances and the fact that I must introduce things really slowly. Mix that with my dh, who while supportive, needs more food than what I can eat in order to stay sane. So, while I don't quite double plan, I do plan in such a way that he and dd #1 can still eat healthy, but have more variety than just what I can eat. He does a lot of cooking and cleaning, but I'm in charge of the planning, and that takes a lot of time right now.

I use the crockpot a lot, and on the weekends I cook, cook, cook. That's when I make my yogurt (for dh and dd#1 - no dairy for me







), broth and soak nuts. I also try to make a few batches of things that I can freeze in indiv portions (soup, nut muffins, cooked fruit compote, etc). We have a big chest freezer, and there is no way I could do SCD without it. This weekend I made a double batch of SCD chicken soup that filled up 5 quart mason jars, so that should last me a while! I try to double everything - even chickens. This weekend I roasted one for dinner and soup, the other I did in the crockpot, froze all the meat, and then used the bones for crockpot stock.

I have seriously contemplated trying to find someone whom I could pay to make some things for me (especially the basics). But I haven't had the time to think through how I would want to do it and search someone out.

I can honestly say that while we're better off eating like this, the stress of it all is high for me (and is taking a toll - my next mission is to figure out how to find time to do yoga to destress from it!) But as the learning curve evens out a bit, I'm feeling a bit more competent and things will get easier and better, I'm sure. I often wish some of you all were around here in real life - wouldn't it be awesome to be able to do some food swaps!

You organized mamas who can write everything down and plan inspire me. I WISH I could do this.

I hear ya about the cooking, cooking, cooking. I freak out if one of my dds asks for something that I haven't cooked. (Like biscuits or crackers.) It totally takes major preparation and TIME TIME TIME. It's very stressful.

I love the crockpot but I find myself making the same thing over and over again. I need some new ideas. Maybe we should start an SCD crockpot thread. . .


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
You organized mamas who can write everything down and plan inspire me. I WISH I could do this.

I hear ya about the cooking, cooking, cooking. I freak out if one of my dds asks for something that I haven't cooked. (Like biscuits or crackers.) It totally takes major preparation and TIME TIME TIME. It's very stressful.

I love the crockpot but I find myself making the same thing over and over again. I need some new ideas. Maybe we should start an SCD crockpot thread. . .

crackers - can you use the cracker brand "Mary's Gone Crackers" ? it's GFCF - mostly seeds, maybe rice? they have a website (probably something like marysgonecrackers.com, if i recall correctly). i don't buy much in the way of prepared foods, but snack food is where i will cross the line - these crackers are a bit crunchier than ds can handle now. we also get nairn's oatcakes - organic rolled oats, palm kernel oil and sea salt. taste like sawdust but ds will eat them as an occasional snack. we occasionally get Newman's Own Organic Fig Newtons - the wheatfree dairyfree brand. the best snacks are the fruit bars i found at everydayfruit.com - ds LOVES LOVES LOVES the frunola bar and the real berry and real green bars. i loved the Think Organic bars (GFCF too!). in a weak moment, i'll also get the Newmans Own Organic Alphabet cookies. sometimes we get rice crackers and Blue Diamond Pecan/Rice crackers - they have butter and some pecan flavor but ds only gets 2 in a sitting and he doesn't seem to want more than that nor does he react. they aren't organic but they are a handy snack. when i get my dehydrator and a little more time in the evening, i might start doing raw cookies for home. the problem is daycare - nutfree on top of our own restrictions - they prefer packaged things (hence my almost expert knowledge on NT-friendlier commercial snack food).

i hate my crockpot. the only thing i seem to have success with is the NT recipe for unsoaked rice - i just dump everything in (to heck with a recipe) and get it started on low at lunchtime. even then, it still burns stuff. i have intermittent success with beans. but anything else just gives either dried up burnt stuff or overcooked mushy meat and veggies. blech. i'd much rather just slap a burger on the grill and call it done. (so part of my tasklist includes when i need to take meat out of the freezer).

it does help that dh would rather just have meat and a veggie at mealtime. and that usually suits ds too. i'm the one who wants a little more variety so any stress i feel is my own durn fault.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I have seriously contemplated trying to find someone whom I could pay to make some things for me (especially the basics). But I haven't had the time to think through how I would want to do it and search someone out.

do they still have home ec./family studies in high school? could you get help from a high school student? you'd have to provide training on how to prepare the stuff, but then after that maybe you could work it out so that a student could maybe get credit for helping you with meals. or what about a community college in the area? that might be an even better source for students needing jobs.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Lovinlivilou & bluets-you are inspiring with your organized cooking. I hope one day to get to where you are! Especially with the whole schedule worked into the food. LLL- do you do your schedule on a spreadsheet?

We have a major flair up of yeast again







, of course I broke down and had some sugar treats, but not many. I am back at the garlic and candex hardcore. I am thinking of trying either the Threelac or the Can Albex. Any thoughts on these? I saw the whole 'plan' on the website for can albex, has anyone here done it?

By the way, I did an experiment: I added a few tablespoons of water kefir to my ginger carrots and they were horrible, had to throw the whole batch out.


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## krissi (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

I am back at the garlic and candex hardcore. I am thinking of trying either the Threelac or the Can Albex. Any thoughts on these? I saw the whole 'plan' on the website for can albex, has anyone here done it?
I'm not familiar with the plan on the website, but DD used Can Albex and I think it helped. Our DAN ped had given us one bottle of the 30X and said to give her three drops three times a day. She used to have yeast flareups every time we stopped the diflucan and lately has been off diflucan for two or three months with no flareup. We have just now run out of Can Albex and the ped said to discontinue it and see what happens. But it is hard for me to say what role the Can Albex played, exactly. It may have been the key or the yeast may have been brought under control by other factors. She also gets Candex twice a day for maintenance and follows SCD for the most part (just a few illegal supplements that her doc and I have decided are worth the illegal ingredients, such as the six strain blend of Custom Probiotics).


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Lovinlivilou & bluets-you are inspiring with your organized cooking. I hope one day to get to where you are! Especially with the whole schedule worked into the food. LLL- do you do your schedule on a spreadsheet?

We have a major flair up of yeast again







, of course I broke down and had some sugar treats, but not many. I am back at the garlic and candex hardcore. I am thinking of trying either the Threelac or the Can Albex. Any thoughts on these? I saw the whole 'plan' on the website for can albex, has anyone here done it?

By the way, I did an experiment: I added a few tablespoons of water kefir to my ginger carrots and they were horrible, had to throw the whole batch out.

Have you had allergy testing done? I was so shocked to learn that dd was allergic to corn. I knew about dairy but corn was so unexpected. Anyway, I haven't given Threelac in several days because I need to call the company and make sure there are no corn derivatives in it, but since dd's eczema is clearing up so rapidly, she hasn't had anymore attacks of yeast rash (it would always take hold when her eczema flared and the skin was broken). So, if you haven't already, it might be worth it to find out about any sensitivities. That information doesn't help everyone, but it seems to be helping us.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Have you had allergy testing done? I was so shocked to learn that dd was allergic to corn. I knew about dairy but corn was so unexpected. Anyway, I haven't given Threelac in several days because I need to call the company and make sure there are no corn derivatives in it, but since dd's eczema is clearing up so rapidly, she hasn't had anymore attacks of yeast rash (it would always take hold when her eczema flared and the skin was broken). So, if you haven't already, it might be worth it to find out about any sensitivities. That information doesn't help everyone, but it seems to be helping us.

I have an appt. with the allergist for dec 18th. I know we are dealing with some food allergies. I am on SCD and since I have been on it his rash has gotten worse. A few times it has almost cleared up, but only for a day or two. I am avoiding all the most common food allergens, I am pretty careful with my supplements and their ingredients, but there could be a trace amount of something that he is allergic to. I keep pouring over my food diary to find the culprit, or conversely the things that helped it clear up. Right now I am pretty sure we are dealing with yeast, he is fidgety (with his fingers), is biting everything and I don't believe it to be teeth related.

Did you just start Threelac? I have been following a recent thread about it but have not read many past threads yet.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Lovinlivilou & bluets-you are inspiring with your organized cooking. I hope one day to get to where you are! Especially with the whole schedule worked into the food. LLL- do you do your schedule on a spreadsheet?

We have a major flair up of yeast again







, of course I broke down and had some sugar treats, but not many. I am back at the garlic and candex hardcore. I am thinking of trying either the Threelac or the Can Albex. Any thoughts on these? I saw the whole 'plan' on the website for can albex, has anyone here done it?

By the way, I did an experiment: I added a few tablespoons of water kefir to my ginger carrots and they were horrible, had to throw the whole batch out.

Nolunsmum - Sorry you're in flair up mode again







. Yeah - I do it on a spreadhseet layout in excel. I have it so that one page prints for the schedule and a second for the grocery list. I try to get it done by Thurs of the week before, email it to dh for him to make sure I haven't missed anything about schedules, and then it's done. It is my bible these days. I'm not very flexible when under stress, so don't come messing with my matrix/schedule!







.

I think I'm going to start Zeolite after Thanksgiving. From what I've read, it looks like it either helps you or doesn't, but that you know pretty soon, and I haven't seen much in the way of bad effects. Anyone know how much chepaer it is through a distributor than online?

I've also figured out that cinnamon is causing the little one to yak. It doesn't look like it did at first (looking back over my food journals), so I'm wondering if I created this problem by eating it too much. So now it's a moving target that I'm chasing - just because it was too easy before!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hi gut buddies.









I got to spend last night in the ER. My chiro and my Dr were convinced I had a femoral Hernia. I was in an extreme ammount of pain. They wanted to do a CT scan and have me drink radioactive stuff. I talked them out of that since it would have meant temoprary weaning for 3 days till I wasn' radioactive any more.

Anyhow, the other tests didn't indicate that the hernia was likely so they think I probably have a badly sprained or torn muscle. Anyone know anything I can do diet wise to help that heal?

Thanks


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## mamajaillet (Jul 24, 2006)

Hello mamas!! I posted here a couple of times last month, and have been trying to keep up. I don't have much computer time. I have learned so much here though, and it amazes me how much information mothers can amass as they work to heal themselves and their babes. My hubby half jokes that I know more or as much at least as our ND, so why bother going









Anyways, I had a question for you all. I have seen reference to this a couple of times, something about finger sucking and yeast. I feel like we have some signs of yeast, but never have had any of the major ones like thrush or diaper rash or yeast infection for myself, nor coated white tongue. my ds1 though, is hyper sensitive to concentrated sweets, not sugar because we don't have that, but sweet fruits, cereal, honey, dried fruit, etc., craves this stuff like crazy, and has to have fingers in his mouth all the time (he's 5, and never sucked is thumb or anything). I just have itchy eyebrows, eyelashes, face with no rash. I just don't know what to thing about yeast. I haven't been able to find a reference to the finger sucking anywhere else, could any of you fill me in?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Annikate--what are the NCD (I might not have the initials right) drops that you referred to that helped your DD #1?

AngelaVA--my DD had blood in her stools for quite a while. We're out of town right now and I'm at the library, but either PM me or remind me after Thanksgiving and I will tell you what seemed to help her.

saskiasmom--as far as I can tell, certain strains of probiotics do colonize the gut while other strains (such as the ones in Threelac) will help you but they don't colonize you so either need to keep taking them or concurrently take some strains that do colonize. I've been reading "Bacteria for Breakfast", the book that JaneS recommended, and it is saying most people need really large doses of multiple strains to recolonize/change their gut flora (like in the 100 billions). I read that 16 oz of kefir can have up to 5 TRILLION good bacteria, so I really think that is the best probiotic (I'm assuming water kefirs have similar number, considering what they did to me!).

Have you considered that maybe you have bacteria overgrowth and/or parasites along with your yeast issues? If you do that might explain why you have not been able to lick your yeast. Also, I believe low stomach acid primarily affects digestions of fats and protein, so if you went from a low-fat diet to a high-fat one that might explain why you suddenly started having problems with GERD.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Annikate--what are the NCD (I might not have the initials right) drops that you referred to that helped your DD #1?

NCD=Natural Cellular Defense.

It's also called zeolite and there's a thread about it in vaccinations. (I think it's there.) If you can't find it lmk and I'll link it for you.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
Anyways, I had a question for you all. I have seen reference to this a couple of times, something about finger sucking and yeast. I feel like we have some signs of yeast, but never have had any of the major ones like thrush or diaper rash or yeast infection for myself, nor coated white tongue. my ds1 though, is hyper sensitive to concentrated sweets, not sugar because we don't have that, but sweet fruits, cereal, honey, dried fruit, etc., craves this stuff like crazy, and has to have fingers in his mouth all the time (he's 5, and never sucked is thumb or anything). I just have itchy eyebrows, eyelashes, face with no rash. I just don't know what to thing about yeast. I haven't been able to find a reference to the finger sucking anywhere else, could any of you fill me in?

Chewing on things is a sign of yeast, I think it is because the mouth is itchy, but don't quote me on that. Other than this current flair up I didn't have any 'outward' symptoms of yeast. And neither one of us has a white tongue.

I also think that I had not been letting my water kefir brew long enough and there was still sugar in it, enough to help the yeast take off and then the stress of leaving DS for a few days, and having some sweets did us in.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Okay, Mamas, I need help. DS, 15 months, doesn't poop more than once a week. I've tried magnesium, vitamin C, Natren Life Start, and most recently a combo of Natren Bifido Factor and Baby Life Bifodobacteria Infantis Powder.

The problem is getting these things into him - he doesn't eat much of anything, so I'll put it in a bit of juice or a smoothie or whatever and he'll only drink a little bit, no matter how little liquid I have it in. Because we are nursing, I'll ingest what he doesn't, hoping he gets it in my milk.

I have a feeling that it isn't constipation so much as he has had some trauma somewhere and is holding it - possibly right from when he started solids, as he has been this way ever since then. The only thing that has worked is Senna or Glycerin suppositories, and I really don't want to make a habit of either of those, as I feel they add to the trauma factor for him.

How bad a Mama would I be if, on our usually all organic, no sugar, SCDish diet...if I gave him some of those low carb chocolates? They have maltitol and it can have a laxative effect. I just don't know what else to do - I feel like I've tried everything natural and I just want him to poop already. I don;t know who to take him to practitioner-wise that could help him, either - if it's trauma around pooping as I suspect, how can we make a difference with that? Who might be able to help him recover from that and poop daily like he did before he started solids?

Please please please help if you can...







:

Oh, I forgot to add that the probiotics we're doing now have done nothing for him, but they're firming up my poop quite nicely, as my issue has been looseness....


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Can I put probiotic powder in kefir? I'm assuming it will have a chance to multiply and have greater numbers than taking the pill alone.

I know I have asked this before-
For gut healing purposes how much zinc is good to take each day? What about selenium?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Nolansmum - Ive read that the range for selenium is 200-600mg/day. I take 200. Zinc; I think I remember reading no more than 80. I take 50mg/day, but wonder if that's too much. I think ff takes 30mg/day. Zinc and copper balance eachother, and there is some speculation about having too much copper and having yeast, so it would seem that if you took more zinc, you'd have less copper? But honestly, I dont get down to that level in calculating my protocal







:

Cademyn - I have considered that diet could be causing it. That's what Dh suspects. My digestion seems to be getting worse. At this point, I suspect stress as much as anything. I dont know how you mamas do this without succumbing to stress! As for colonizing pro-b's, it seems top me that most ingested ones do not colonize permanently. When articles talk about colonizing, they mean that there are still some pro-b's in feces up to 3 wks after ingestion but then the numbers go back to normal. It takes many years to slowly shift the balance, as it is very hard for ingested ones to outcompete, and to have all the requirements (space, food) needed to stick. It sounds like some kind of food with the prob's is needed to help them double fast enough to have a chance of permanent colonization. So it would seem that once the yeast is in balance, you would continue pretty aggressive probiotic supplementation for a long time, if not forever.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn* 
Okay, Mamas, I need help. DS, 15 months, doesn't poop more than once a week. I've tried magnesium, vitamin C, Natren Life Start, and most recently a combo of Natren Bifido Factor and Baby Life Bifodobacteria Infantis Powder.

The problem is getting these things into him - he doesn't eat much of anything, so I'll put it in a bit of juice or a smoothie or whatever and he'll only drink a little bit, no matter how little liquid I have it in. Because we are nursing, I'll ingest what he doesn't, hoping he gets it in my milk.

I have a feeling that it isn't constipation so much as he has had some trauma somewhere and is holding it - possibly right from when he started solids, as he has been this way ever since then. The only thing that has worked is Senna or Glycerin suppositories, and I really don't want to make a habit of either of those, as I feel they add to the trauma factor for him.

How bad a Mama would I be if, on our usually all organic, no sugar, SCDish diet...if I gave him some of those low carb chocolates? They have maltitol and it can have a laxative effect. I just don't know what else to do - I feel like I've tried everything natural and I just want him to poop already. I don;t know who to take him to practitioner-wise that could help him, either - if it's trauma around pooping as I suspect, how can we make a difference with that? Who might be able to help him recover from that and poop daily like he did before he started solids?

Please please please help if you can...







:

Oh, I forgot to add that the probiotics we're doing now have done nothing for him, but they're firming up my poop quite nicely, as my issue has been looseness....

I think dd1's constipation issue was related to trauma too.







Poor thing, we went the stupid route and had the ped prescribe a stool softener for her and had her on that for longer than I want to admit.

Sorry your little guy is going through it!

I'm sure you tried this but you didn't mention it so I'll throw it out there. . . .
prune juice? I used to cook up some organic prunes for dd and let her drink the juice. This helped a lot.

I don't know, I'd be reluctant to try the chocolate, but that's just me. Hey, anything to get him poopying! (Does he seem like he's in pain?)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn* 
Okay, Mamas, I need help. DS, 15 months, doesn't poop more than once a week. I've tried magnesium, vitamin C, Natren Life Start, and most recently a combo of Natren Bifido Factor and Baby Life Bifodobacteria Infantis Powder.

The problem is getting these things into him - he doesn't eat much of anything, so I'll put it in a bit of juice or a smoothie or whatever and he'll only drink a little bit, no matter how little liquid I have it in. Because we are nursing, I'll ingest what he doesn't, hoping he gets it in my milk.

I have a feeling that it isn't constipation so much as he has had some trauma somewhere and is holding it - possibly right from when he started solids, as he has been this way ever since then. The only thing that has worked is Senna or Glycerin suppositories, and I really don't want to make a habit of either of those, as I feel they add to the trauma factor for him.

How bad a Mama would I be if, on our usually all organic, no sugar, SCDish diet...if I gave him some of those low carb chocolates? They have maltitol and it can have a laxative effect. I just don't know what else to do - I feel like I've tried everything natural and I just want him to poop already. I don;t know who to take him to practitioner-wise that could help him, either - if it's trauma around pooping as I suspect, how can we make a difference with that? Who might be able to help him recover from that and poop daily like he did before he started solids?

Please please please help if you can...







:

Oh, I forgot to add that the probiotics we're doing now have done nothing for him, but they're firming up my poop quite nicely, as my issue has been looseness....

Does it bother your DS to only poop once a week? I know it's not good for them to go that infrequently, but you might not have to "treat" it right away (ie give him a chance to heal) if it doesn't bother him. I don't have any suggestions on practioners but I know firefaery's DS goes to somebody to help with his reluctance to poop. Also, the things that helped my DD poop every day are CLO and coconut oil--she gets 1/2 tsp of high vitamin CLO a day and anywhere from 1/2 to 1 1/2 Tbsp of CO a day (however much I can get her to eat). Since I started those two she's gone every day instead of every 2-4 days. I feel you on the having difficulty getting babies to eat--I can barely get that little bit of CO and an ounce or so of coconut milk kefir into DD every day. Luckily she loves her probiotics. I just put the powder on a spoon and dip my finger in and stick it in her mouth until they're gone. I've started giving her 55 billion CFU's a day of probiotics and she's had some runny poop lately, so hopefully that's the probiotics working on her.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

For anyone who let their baby self-feed--does it seem normal for an 11 month old not to digest anything she feeds herself? I've tried bits of avocado, cooked squash, and cooked sweet potato and she hasn't digested any of it. Plus she had nasty green poop for a few days after the sweet potato and squash, so I'm thinking she didn't do well with one or both of those.

firefaery (or anyone else)--do you have any good recipes for a birthday cake for a one year old, particularly a frosting recipe? I'd prefer it to be low or no sugar, and it can't have grains or nuts in it. I was thinking of trying to whip some coconut cream for "frosting" on a pumpkin pie filling "cake" but I'm open to suggestions.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn, any time I gave dd sweet potato (before doing SCD) it ended up a nightmare. She spent months eating only squash, zucchini and pears. Then we slooooowly branched out.

Not sure why she's not digesting the squash. What kind are you giving her?

If you can get someone to copy the apple cake recipe from BTVC and the frosting recipe that's what I used for dd's first birthday. She only really ate a little frosting but it was good for the picture factor. Plus it tasted pretty yummy.

Sorry, I lost my book months ago and still can't find it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
caedmyn, any time I gave dd sweet potato (before doing SCD) it ended up a nightmare. She spent months eating only squash, zucchini and pears. Then we slooooowly branched out.

Not sure why she's not digesting the squash. What kind are you giving her?

If you can get someone to copy the apple cake recipe from BTVC and the frosting recipe that's what I used for dd's first birthday. She only really ate a little frosting but it was good for the picture factor. Plus it tasted pretty yummy.

Sorry, I lost my book months ago and still can't find it.

I'm giving her butternut squash. She might digest fruit better but I don't want to feed the yeast--she's got yeasty bumps on her neck and butt right now. I bet it was the sweet potato that gave her the green poop--I've fed her squash before and she's never had green poop with that even though she doesn't digest it.

Will someone post the apple cake and frosting recipe from BTVC for me? Pretty please


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 

I'm sure you tried this but you didn't mention it so I'll throw it out there. . . .
prune juice? I used to cook up some organic prunes for dd and let her drink the juice. This helped a lot.

I don't know, I'd be reluctant to try the chocolate, but that's just me. Hey, anything to get him poopying! (Does he seem like he's in pain?)

I've tried it before but it's been awhile, maybe time to try again.

He won't even eat the chocolate. And who can blame him? When we DO get chocolate, rare though it may be, it's organic fair-trade chocolate. This stuff is...not even a close approximation. He won't even put it in his mouth . I tasted it and I won't either, so I can totally understand. It's icky.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Does it bother your DS to only poop once a week? I know it's not good for them to go that infrequently, but you might not have to "treat" it right away (ie give him a chance to heal) if it doesn't bother him. I don't have any suggestions on practioners but I know firefaery's DS goes to somebody to help with his reluctance to poop. Also, the things that helped my DD poop every day are CLO and coconut oil--she gets 1/2 tsp of high vitamin CLO a day and anywhere from 1/2 to 1 1/2 Tbsp of CO a day (however much I can get her to eat). Since I started those two she's gone every day instead of every 2-4 days. I feel you on the having difficulty getting babies to eat--I can barely get that little bit of CO and an ounce or so of coconut milk kefir into DD every day. Luckily she loves her probiotics. I just put the powder on a spoon and dip my finger in and stick it in her mouth until they're gone. I've started giving her 55 billion CFU's a day of probiotics and she's had some runny poop lately, so hopefully that's the probiotics working on her.

It bothers me because yes, he does seem like he is uncomfortable. He flips all over the place and stiffens his body at regular intervals in his sleep. His belly is distended - you can tell he NEEDS to poop. Not to menbtion how unhealthy it is for him









I'll try the CLO or CO - whichever I can get into him. And I'll try the finger thing. Maybe it will work? Thanks so much, Mamas!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

chasmyn, have you tried belly massage? You can massage the large intestinal tract, working backwards (starting on the left --his left) and general stuff. Always work clockwise. Would he stand for a castor oil pack? I have only tried it once, but I know people swear by them.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
chasmyn, have you tried belly massage? You can massage the large intestinal tract, working backwards (starting on the left --his left) and general stuff. Always work clockwise. Would he stand for a castor oil pack? I have only tried it once, but I know people swear by them.

Do I just massage in circles? My hand takes up his whole belly.

What's a castor oil pack?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Chasmyn, can you just put the powder in his mouth, like in the corner of his mouth, for him to swallow? As far as massage, there are specific techniques for it. You use your fingers not your open hand, and you have to put quite a bit of pressure on them. One is to massage clockwise on his belly, forming and upside down "I L U" (I love you, cute, eh) as described in the Baby Book by Sears. There are also acupressure points you can stimulate that are supposed to loosen up constipation. There is a book called "Chinese Massage for Infants and Children" that shows them. I never pursued it because in our case, ds's sensory issues made it impossible to massage him, otherwise I'd have it and loan it to you. Here is one thing I found online that shows some points for this: http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.asp?id=246


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn* 
I've tried it before but it's been awhile, maybe time to try again.

He won't even eat the chocolate. And who can blame him? When we DO get chocolate, rare though it may be, it's organic fair-trade chocolate. This stuff is...not even a close approximation. He won't even put it in his mouth . I tasted it and I won't either, so I can totally understand. It's icky.









It bothers me because yes, he does seem like he is uncomfortable. He flips all over the place and stiffens his body at regular intervals in his sleep. His belly is distended - you can tell he NEEDS to poop. Not to menbtion how unhealthy it is for him









I'll try the CLO or CO - whichever I can get into him. And I'll try the finger thing. Maybe it will work? Thanks so much, Mamas!


Chasmyn-are you doing castor oil packs? They would probably really help. All you do is heat a cloth with castor oil (a bunch) on it and apply to hte lower belly. I do it under a onesie, but you could also use cotton tape to adhere it. It is antiinflammatory and very soothing. It woudl relax the intestinal tract quite a bit.

I use a network chiropractor, a PT who is a CST and a homeopath to help my ds with his elimination issues. I find that this approach deals with any possible issue that can't be fixed with dietary intervention.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I am having a flair up of yeast and I cannot do the raw garlic right now, my tummy is not happy. I am doing Candex + protease in between meals. Do I need a yeast 'killer' on top of this? I am thinking of doing a homeopathic remedy too, maybe just plain candida albicans or can albex. I am also drinking water kefir and eating as many fermented veggies as possible. Maybe I need to make nut milk yogurt.

Can we go over again which bacteria strains colonize the gut?

Happy Thanksgiving!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Chasmyn, can you just put the powder in his mouth, like in the corner of his mouth, for him to swallow? As far as massage, there are specific techniques for it. You use your fingers not your open hand, and you have to put quite a bit of pressure on them. One is to massage clockwise on his belly, forming and upside down "I L U" (I love you, cute, eh) as described in the Baby Book by Sears. There are also acupressure points you can stimulate that are supposed to loosen up constipation. There is a book called "Chinese Massage for Infants and Children" that shows them. I never pursued it because in our case, ds's sensory issues made it impossible to massage him, otherwise I'd have it and loan it to you. Here is one thing I found online that shows some points for this: http://www.healthy.net/scr/Article.asp?id=246

Thanks Jen!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Chasmyn-are you doing castor oil packs? They would probably really help. All you do is heat a cloth with castor oil (a bunch) on it and apply to hte lower belly. I do it under a onesie, but you could also use cotton tape to adhere it. It is antiinflammatory and very soothing. It woudl relax the intestinal tract quite a bit.

I use a network chiropractor, a PT who is a CST and a homeopath to help my ds with his elimination issues. I find that this approach deals with any possible issue that can't be fixed with dietary intervention.

I'm not but I'll try them. Our chiro is unfortunately not able to get Kiernen to let her adjust him - he kind of freaks out about it no matter what she tries (and she is very gentle and has good energy and is good with kids otherwise). We're going to see a naturopath in their office and see what she says, too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I am having a flair up of yeast and I cannot do the raw garlic right now, my tummy is not happy. I am doing Candex + protease in between meals. Do I need a yeast 'killer' on top of this?

I'm going to answer my own question, YEs I need a yeast killer and now! I found a liquid form of caprylic acid, what do you think of this?

Quote:

Caproyl, containing liquid caprylic acid (extracted from coconut oil) and oleic acids (in olive oil), is the fungicidal component of the Attogram products. Caproyl contains 1400 mg Caprylic Acid per Tablespoon.

Caprylic acid, a fatty acid, is a broad-spectrum anti-fungal agent effective against Candida albicans and other fungi, but harmless to friendly intestinal flora. It is effective not only against the yeast form of Candida, but also the invasive mycelial form because it is absorbed by the intestinal mucosal cells. Oleic acid hinders conversion of the yeast form of Candida to the more injurious mycelial form. The olive oil in Caproyl is high quality "extra virgin".

* The Caprylic acid in Caproyl, being a liquid has a coating action on the intestinal wall which tablets and capsules cannot match.
* Liquid Caproyl, being dispersed in the Psyllium gel, releases its caprylic acid throughout the entire length of the intestinal tract at a predictable rate controlled by the gel.
* Liquid Caproyl, being dispersed in the Psyllium gel, has its caprylic acid forcibly rubbed into the intestinal wall (where Candida live) by the bulking action of the gel.

Only liquid caprylic acid will work properly with this program. Powdered caprylic acid in tablets and capsules will not cooperate nearly as well with the Psyllium gel, even when crushed first. The caprylic acid in Caproyl, being a liquid, has a coating action on the intestinal wall, which tablets and capsules cannot match. As the liquid Caproyl is dispersed in the Psyllium/Bentonite gel, it releases its caprylic acid throughout the entire length of the intestinal tract.

The following is from the book, Conquering Yeast Infections, the Non Drug Solution for Men and Women" by S. Colet Lahoz about the Caprol:

Caproyl (former name: Caprol), containing liquid caprylic acid (3600 mg per oz) and oleic acids, is a broad spectrum anti-fungal agent against Candida albicans and other fungi.

........Caprylic acids antifungal properties were the subject of a study at the Japanese Niigata University School of Medicine: "the fungicidal effect of caprylic acid on Candida albicans was exceedingly powerful...Caprylic acid exhibits the most remarkable fungistatic and fungicidal properties of all normal saturated fatty acids with even numbered carbon atoms studied.

This information about caprylic acid's powerful antifungal properties was reported by the Japanese in 1961. However not until two decades later was it further discovered by a Canadian, Andrew Gutauskas, B.S. Pharmacy, that the benefits of caprylic acid are further enhanced when its transit through the intestinal tract is slowed. Caprylic acid must exert its fungicidal effect in the intestinal tract or not at all. The longer it can react the better.

Unfortunately, caprylic acid is a substance that is normally quite rapidly absorbed into the intestinal tract and routed directly to the liver. There it is quickly metabolized and does not succeed at entering the general circulation. Just ten minutes after the oral intake of straight caprylic acid, more than 90% can be traced in the portal vein on its way to the liver. For this reason, the quite powerful caprylic acid has little anti-Candida albicans effect, both intestinally and systemically. This fact, however, is significantly altered if its absorption can be somehow slowed, allowing it to remain in the intestine for a longer period of time in order to complete its fungicidal mission. In this program, caprylic acid acquires its needed sustained-release properties from gel, formed by the mixture of Caprol, colon cleansers, and water. This thick gel traps the caprylic acid and slows its transit through the colon.

Uncontrolled surges of caprylic acid into the liver are the most probable cause of adverse reactions to caprylic acid: however, while in this gelled state, caprylic acid does not escape into the liver. It is no surprise, then, that no adverse reactions to this gelled form of caprylic acid have been reported, even among individuals who previously reacted to other caprylic acid products.

Traditional caprylic acid preparations exist as capsules and tablets, but the preference is the liquid form. This mixing causes the caprylic acid to interact with the olive oil, thereby amplifying its fungicidal effects far beyond what caprylic acid has traditionally offered.

........Oleic acid, the second acid ingredient in Caproyl, is found naturally in olive oil. It too, has significant CRC battling effects. Normally harmless Candida albicans (if in small quantities) can convert, or mutate, into a disruptive mycelial form for several reasons - overuse of antibiotics being a prime example. When this happens, root-like tentacles are formed, which allow the new harmful fungi to penetrate the mucosa (or lining) of the intestinal wall and enter the blood stream. From there, the fungi easily gain access to other parts of the body. Oleic acid follows the mycelial, root like tentacles of candida albicans to the base of the root and kills it there. Oleic acid also hinders any additional conversion of Candida albicans yeast into its mycelial fungal form. ....As explained, oleic acid is of great importance in the destruction of CRC.
What about goldenseal as a yeast fighter? This article listed it as a good one to try. http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...ed-thrush.html


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn* 
Okay, Mamas, I need help. DS, 15 months, doesn't poop more than once a week. I've tried magnesium, vitamin C, Natren Life Start, and most recently a combo of Natren Bifido Factor and Baby Life Bifodobacteria Infantis Powder.

The problem is getting these things into him - he doesn't eat much of anything, so I'll put it in a bit of juice or a smoothie or whatever and he'll only drink a little bit, no matter how little liquid I have it in. Because we are nursing, I'll ingest what he doesn't, hoping he gets it in my milk.


For my 6 mo old, I mix 1/4 tsp filtered, unchilled water with the probiotic powder and then use one of the medicine droppers (actually not the dropper but the kind that is like a shot without the needle) to squirt it in her mouth slowly (towards the back so that its harder to spit out). Not sure how it would work with an older kiddo, but it's working well for us. This was the only way I could get enough of the powder in her to make a difference and make sure she actually ingested it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

nolansmom - have you seen the product "yeast defense" ? it looks like it might be useful, though you'd probably have to increase your probiotic intake as it contains pau d'arco. i've also read some conflicting stuff on pau d'arco - yes it's safe during nursing and no it isn't safe - so who knows?

on baby constipation - really strong epsom salt baths and, if your dc can handle it without behavioral issues later, let them drink the bathwater. ds now lies on his tummy (on his own!) in the bath when he has constipation issues (usually about 1x per week). now that he stands up to pee in the tub, i only let him drink until he pees (usually at the end of the bath). i guess the combination of the strong warm-tepid bath, the salts, and the self-induced belly rub help get things moving.

some good news - i've been 99% wheat free for 2 weeks or so and ds's tiny eczema patches have gone away. the bad news is that he might have yeast (finger sucking, thumb sucking, toy sucking, you name it) - either that or it's those pesky 2 yr molars. i do notice that his gums are starting to feel different (when he lets me poke around in his mouth and doesn't bite me!)... maybe it's time for another CST session to help with tooth movement...

and some holiday amusement... we went to the ILs (well, dh's grandparents' house who are quite... well... oldfashioned)... dh had told them that we were non-dairy. so grandma in her kindness stocked up on nondairy creamer, nondairy whipping cream and.... tada... (this is the best!) MARGARINE! yikes. good thing i didn't tell her about the no wheat experiment. she was backhandedly annoyed that we brought our own food but i didn't have the issues that i normally do when we visit them so that's all i care about.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
and some holiday amusement... we went to the ILs (well, dh's grandparents' house who are quite... well... oldfashioned)... dh had told them that we were non-dairy. so grandma in her kindness stocked up on nondairy creamer, nondairy whipping cream and.... tada... (this is the best!) MARGARINE! yikes. good thing i didn't tell her about the no wheat experiment. she was backhandedly annoyed that we brought our own food but i didn't have the issues that i normally do when we visit them so that's all i care about.

Yeah, our Thanksgiving was served up with plenty of breaded, fried, gravied, things and cream-of-whatever casseroles.

Good thing I brought along my block of cheddar cheese and bag of grapes.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody taking this?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Anybody taking this?

I had been (April to Aug/Sept?) and saw a LOT of healing whilst I was taking it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
I had been (April to Aug/Sept?) and saw a LOT of healing whilst I was taking it.

Where did you get it and what kind and how much did you take?









My own symptoms are markedly better than when I began this stupid diet last January but I really still think I have leaky gut (as much as I hate to realize that it is true.)

I ate some Fritos







last weekend and dd was up all night long that night. I did this once before many weeks ago and the same thing happened.

They obviously have gluten in them.

Oh, and I caved and let dd1 have a piece of carrot cake on Thanksgiving and 2 days later I had to get the suppositories out.









To make matters worse, she was SO constipated that I had to lay her on the floor and literally chip away and help her get the stool out.







Sorry, TMI.

DD2 is the one with the wheat/gluten allergy (according to test results). DD1 is the one w/a wheat/gluten thing (according to mommy's knowledge). I only wish I hadn't started wavering in my thinking.

I justified it by saying that I wasn't really *sure* she had a wheat thing - we removed dairy at the same time (which she was really intolerant of). I was kind of hoping that she'd eat the cake and be okay. Poor baby.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Annikate--poor baby







How awful for both of you!

Question for you: have you given DD1 any probiotics that contain dairy (and if so, did she react)? I found some really strong (450 billion CFUs per dose) probiotics that I am thinking about getting for DD but they are not dairy-free.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

chasmyn, I wanted to add that you should limit the amount of binding food that your ds eats -- not only the old BRAT (bananas, rice, apples, toast) list but also carrots and cheese. Pears, prunes, figs, avocado, any fruit except apples really, will help. I used to give a combination of chopped prunes and whole blueberries to ds when he was a toddler -- he loved it! It looked kinda icky, but it must have been really sweet!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Annikate--poor baby







How awful for both of you!

Question for you: have you given DD1 any probiotics that contain dairy (and if so, did she react)? I found some really strong (450 billion CFUs per dose) probiotics that I am thinking about getting for DD but they are not dairy-free.

I have not given her any straight - only cultured in the yogurt. She seems to do fine w/them cultured.

Speaking of probiotics... I have started giving the custom probiotics to dd2 on a regular basis (once a day since Mon. or Tues.) and they are helping her poopy! I give them to her in water after breakfast and she's been having a bm about 6 hours later! A soft one too, but not too soft. (She tends toward the constipated side and only goes once every other day or so.)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I have not given her any straight - only cultured in the yogurt. She seems to do fine w/them cultured.

Speaking of probiotics... I have started giving the custom probiotics to dd2 on a regular basis (once a day since Mon. or Tues.) and they are helping her poopy! I give them to her in water after breakfast and she's been having a bm about 6 hours later! A soft one too, but not too soft. (She tends toward the constipated side and only goes once every other day or so.)

That's great that the custom probiotics are helping...what strains do you have and how much are you giving her?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

L-glutamine-I thought someone posted here a few months back that this was not such a great supplement to take long term.









Annikate-glad to hear the custom probiotics are helping.

Sorry I don't have anything to add when it comes to constipation, we have always tended towards loose stools here.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

You all probably think I am bonkers, or a big flake. I have no idea if we are having a yeast flair up or really bad die off. It all started with the water kefir. I started slowly with a couple of ounces and gave ds a tiny bit. For a couple of days his cheeks cleared up and his behavior was better, less hyper. And then he started with all his yeast symptoms again and his cheeks got worse and worse. Combine that with DH wanting to put heavy creams on his face (I think they make it worse, I prefer oils that soak in quickly.) So then I thought, better get this yeast in check, I'm going to drink a ton of kefir. Then my symptoms got worse. And here I am just a s confused as ever and feeling like i have no control over the situation.

What can I do to help his system detox? I am taking milk thistle and bathing him in epsom salts. Can he have milk thistle? We have never found our optidose of Vit C, maybe time to try? Maybe a castor oil pack on the liver? I have been doing a skin brushing (on myself) is that too much for his system?


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

What could this be?? Since we've gone corn-free and pineapple-free, in addition to dairy-free, dd's eczema has almost completely cleared. However, we/I must have eaten something she does not tolerate because her cheek got red again and the eczema reddened behind her knee and under her arms. I noticed that she got a yucky bum rash after eating raisins and it really seemed to bother her. The red cheek/eczema started afterward, but also after I'd consumed a glass of orange juice (and gave her a sip) and eaten a tangerine. Her reaction occurred probably 1 hour later (and she hadn't nursed), so I wonder if that one sip could have caused it (and it remains, nearly a day later).

I've looked up the possible culprits, and either she's allergic to the oranges or it's the sulfites or salicylates in the raisins. Oh, and I just remembered that she had grapes yesterday, too (first time since our corn allergy diagnosis), so maybe that was part of it. I know that I need to eliminate them entirely and reintroduce one at a time, but in the meantime, does any one have any thoughts about those sensitivities? What fruits are inocuous enough to give her?

On that note, does anyone know if a corn-free enzyme exists?? Or what about a vitamin supplement? I finally found a corn-free probiotic (UAS), but I don't know where to start with the enzymes. Most companies don't bother to list corn ingredients/derivatives because it's supposedly not a common allergen.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
What could this be?? Since we've gone corn-free and pineapple-free, in addition to dairy-free, dd's eczema has almost completely cleared. However, we/I must have eaten something she does not tolerate because her cheek got red again and the eczema reddened behind her knee and under her arms. I noticed that she got a yucky bum rash after eating raisins and it really seemed to bother her. The red cheek/eczema started afterward, but also after I'd consumed a glass of orange juice (and gave her a sip) and eaten a tangerine. Her reaction occurred probably 1 hour later (and she hadn't nursed), so I wonder if that one sip could have caused it (and it remains, nearly a day later).

I've looked up the possible culprits, and either she's allergic to the oranges or it's the sulfites or salicylates in the raisins. Oh, and I just remembered that she had grapes yesterday, too (first time since our corn allergy diagnosis), so maybe that was part of it. I know that I need to eliminate them entirely and reintroduce one at a time, but in the meantime, does any one have any thoughts about those sensitivities? What fruits are inocuous enough to give her?

On that note, does anyone know if a corn-free enzyme exists?? Or what about a vitamin supplement? I finally found a corn-free probiotic (UAS), but I don't know where to start with the enzymes. Most companies don't bother to list corn ingredients/derivatives because it's supposedly not a common allergen.

I'll take a wild stab at this, what about the sugar in the fruits causing it?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
You all probably think I am bonkers, or a big flake. I have no idea if we are having a yeast flair up or really bad die off. It all started with the water kefir. I started slowly with a couple of ounces and gave ds a tiny bit. For a couple of days his cheeks cleared up and his behavior was better, less hyper. And then he started with all his yeast symptoms again and his cheeks got worse and worse. Combine that with DH wanting to put heavy creams on his face (I think they make it worse, I prefer oils that soak in quickly.) So then I thought, better get this yeast in check, I'm going to drink a ton of kefir. Then my symptoms got worse. And here I am just a s confused as ever and feeling like i have no control over the situation.

What can I do to help his system detox? I am taking milk thistle and bathing him in epsom salts. Can he have milk thistle? We have never found our optidose of Vit C, maybe time to try? Maybe a castor oil pack on the liver? I have been doing a skin brushing (on myself) is that too much for his system?

What are your symptoms? I would bet the kefir is causing die-off for you. Have you tried stopping it for a few days? I had to be off all fermented foods & kefir for about a week before I could start adding them in again, and even then there were a couple of times where I ate/drank too much too soon and had to back off again.

My DD has seemed worse since I started both of us on kefirs, too, but then I have cheated on the diet so much since then that it's probably me eating foods she can't tolerate rather than the kefirs causing her to get worse.

I've given DD milk thistle infusion. She didn't seem to have a problem with it (not that I can really tell what she reacts to, though). Vitamin C is supposed to be good for mopping up toxins, even if you're not at your optidose it should help. Nettle infusions might be good, too...they're supposed to help with eczema. Or licorice root is supposed to be a detoxer.

Are you giving your DS any yeast killers? We're on day two of Candex for DD...so far so good.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone have any experience with teething or tiredness making eczema worse? DD seems to have flare-ups that are totally unrelated to food. One day she was fine when she woke up but an hour later she was ready for a nap and her cheeks were getting red. They were better after her nap but then we were out shopping all day and she didn't sleep again for about 8 hours and her poor cheeks kept getting redder and redder and redder. Then they looked better after she slept again. They seem to get better or worse throughout the day regardless of what I eat. They definitely do tend to look worse when she is tired. And she must be teething again as she has drool pouring from her constantly, so I wonder if that is making things worse.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Does anyone have any experience with teething or tiredness making eczema worse? DD seems to have flare-ups that are totally unrelated to food. One day she was fine when she woke up but an hour later she was ready for a nap and her cheeks were getting red. They were better after her nap but then we were out shopping all day and she didn't sleep again for about 8 hours and her poor cheeks kept getting redder and redder and redder. Then they looked better after she slept again. They seem to get better or worse throughout the day regardless of what I eat. They definitely do tend to look worse when she is tired. And she must be teething again as she has drool pouring from her constantly, so I wonder if that is making things worse.

yes and yes. That is why it is so hard to tell if a food is causing a reaction or a topical cream because there are so many other factors. Ds also rubs his cheeks when he is tired.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
What are your symptoms? I would bet the kefir is causing die-off for you. Have you tried stopping it for a few days? I had to be off all fermented foods & kefir for about a week before I could start adding them in again, and even then there were a couple of times where I ate/drank too much too soon and had to back off again.

Are you giving your DS any yeast killers? We're on day two of Candex for DD...so far so good.

My symptoms are sore throat the first few days and then itchy vagina. I have been really thirsty too. Sometimes I get a rumbly tummy right after I drink it. He is irritable, fidgety/stimming, rashy. His symptoms were very sudden at about the 3rd day of kefir. I will try cutting all the fermented foods out.

I am taking Candex, I have been taking it for about 6 weeks, I started it when I restarted the diet and DS's rash was significantly better. I take it 3x a day now, maybe i will back off on that too. I don't give it to ds, although I put a tiny bit of digest gold in his solid foods when he eats. How much do you give your DD and how do you get it into her? By the way, here is a cheaper candex http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Candida-...nagement/cas-1

I am still reading about the different yeast killers and so far I don't feel comfortable taking any of them. The article I posted above from MOthering magazine suggested goldenseal, but I found enough info that said not to and that it could have an affect on milk supply.

OT: I am so proud, DS's first word was 'num-num'







It is our word for nursing.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Does anyone have any experience with teething or tiredness making eczema worse? DD seems to have flare-ups that are totally unrelated to food. One day she was fine when she woke up but an hour later she was ready for a nap and her cheeks were getting red. They were better after her nap but then we were out shopping all day and she didn't sleep again for about 8 hours and her poor cheeks kept getting redder and redder and redder. Then they looked better after she slept again. They seem to get better or worse throughout the day regardless of what I eat. They definitely do tend to look worse when she is tired. And she must be teething again as she has drool pouring from her constantly, so I wonder if that is making things worse.

I would think so. Being tired and teething both can result in lowered immunity, and if the immune system is already taxed by allergies, it stands to reason, imo.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
My symptoms are sore throat the first few days and then itchy vagina. I have been really thirsty too. Sometimes I get a rumbly tummy right after I drink it. He is irritable, fidgety/stimming, rashy. His symptoms were very sudden at about the 3rd day of kefir. I will try cutting all the fermented foods out.

I am taking Candex, I have been taking it for about 6 weeks, I started it when I restarted the diet and DS's rash was significantly better. I take it 3x a day now, maybe i will back off on that too. I don't give it to ds, although I put a tiny bit of digest gold in his solid foods when he eats. How much do you give your DD and how do you get it into her? By the way, here is a cheaper candex http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Candida-...nagement/cas-1

I am still reading about the different yeast killers and so far I don't feel comfortable taking any of them. The article I posted above from MOthering magazine suggested goldenseal, but I found enough info that said not to and that it could have an affect on milk supply.

OT: I am so proud, DS's first word was 'num-num'







It is our word for nursing.

A rumbly stomach is definitely die-off for me--I get it when I take a lot of vitamin C, or too much kefir, or sometimes when I eat raw garlic. I did notice that I got a little itchier after I started the kefirs. I don't really know why, but I have read that itchiness is the last symptom to go. The extra itchy-ness seems to have subsided now, in spite of all the cheating I've been doing and the 3 or so times in the last couple of weeks that I've eaten a ton of Rapadura (cookies, must have cookies
















I've been giving DD 1/2 capsule of Candex 2x/day. I just open the capsule and put half of it on a spoon and then dip my finger into it. She eats it just like she does her probiotics. I tasted it first and it doesn't really have a taste (unlike the Digest Gold which taste pretty nasty IMO). I'm a bit scared to give her any enzymes other than Candex since I know her gut is damaged and I've read that proteases can be very hard on a damaged gut.

Do you eat coconut oil? It's anti-fungal and has lots of other benefits besides (it contains caprylic acid). Five tablespoons a day is the recommended amount for yeast-killing. I haven't done much research on it but caprylic acid seems safe to me. Biotin (a B vitamin) is also supposed to inhibit yeast if you take 1000 mcg 3x/day. Vitamin C in large doses is supposed to be anti-fungal. I don't know that you necessarily *have* to take an anti-fungal with the Candex. It might just work better or faster if you take an anti-fungal, too.

I'm jealous that your DS said a word! DD can sign "please" and "all done", though, so I guess that's something. I don't think she knows what they mean, but she'll sign them if I tell her to. Does your DS walk yet? DD is so close. I was hoping she would walk today--DH came home from his training for 2 days but had to go back this morning and I wanted her to walk for him. He's afraid she's going to forget him when he's deployed


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

Do you eat coconut oil? It's anti-fungal and has lots of other benefits besides (it contains caprylic acid). Five tablespoons a day is the recommended amount for yeast-killing. I haven't done much research on it but caprylic acid seems safe to me. Biotin (a B vitamin) is also supposed to inhibit yeast if you take 1000 mcg 3x/day. Vitamin C in large doses is supposed to be anti-fungal. I don't know that you necessarily *have* to take an anti-fungal with the Candex. It might just work better or faster if you take an anti-fungal, too.
I had a really bad reaction to CO. Bloating; burning when I used body products with it (dr. bronner's); huge zit when I put lip balm on after not using it or ingesting it for a week. Maybe that was all just die off??? That is why I have stayed away from caprylic acid, because most supplements are from coconut. I had not heard about biotin yet. At this point I don't know that I want to go faster because DS isn't reacting well.

Quote:

I'm jealous that your DS said a word! DD can sign "please" and "all done", though, so I guess that's something. I don't think she knows what they mean, but she'll sign them if I tell her to. Does your DS walk yet? DD is so close. I was hoping she would walk today--DH came home from his training for 2 days but had to go back this morning and I wanted her to walk for him. He's afraid she's going to forget him when he's deployed








: I am sorry your DH is being deployed. How long will he be gone? Will he come home for visits at all? There is always phone and email, is your DD fascinated with the phone? It will be a huge adjustment when your DH gets back, but there is no one like daddy.
DS is close to walking, he walks hanging onto my pinky, we are just waiting for him to realize he can do it on his own. The IL's are coming next weekend, maybe he will do it then.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Where did you get it and what kind and how much did you take?











i spent the first month on RenewLife's Intestinew product - it's got a bunch of herbs and L-glutamine and N-acetylcysteine (i think). My ND said it was a pretty mild product. On top of that, he had me taking MSM. The glutamine apparently strengthens the epithelial cell tissue (gut lining) and the MSM apparently strengthens the intercellular connective tissue. I noticed that my joints became a bit less loose and less crackly when I was on MSM. I think I also started EPO at this time too.

Then, after a month on the IntestiNew, I switched to the Metagenics Glutagenics product - quite a bit stronger - for a period of 3 months. It's got L-glutamine, DGL and aloe vera juice (powdered). At this time, I started up KAL UltraOmega 369 and kept on the EPO (oops - found out a month or so later that the ND didn't think i needed that much EPO but have since learned that i do need it). I also went on the Metagenics UltraFlora Plus DF probiotic (contains FOS?).

I pretty much followed the label instructions re: dosage, except that I only managed 2 doses a day because we weren't eating at home for lunch then and it was a pain to remember to haul the stuff around.

4 months doesn't seem like long term to me, so I don't think there was any danger in using those products - except danger to my wallet. Those Metagenics products are expensive.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

well i guess ds has a mild yeast thing going on.

we overdid the fruit today and this evening he was positively loony. that behavior coupled with the hand sucking, thumb sucking, nosepicking (is that a yeast thing or just a toddler thing?!)... well, i'm guessing it's yeast. sigh. he's also somewhat constipated - that 6 hours drive yesterday didn't help matters. guess what his favorite fruit is? apples! he doesn't eat any other binding things though...

on the upside, we saw my parents at thanksgiving so we now have a fresh batch of homemade pickles. i also pulled out a bit of my mom's sauerkraut. i can't for the life of me get ds to choke down powdered probiotics. if his water looks anything different from water, he won't drink it. so i've been letting him chew down as many pickles as he wants along with as much sauerkraut as he wants. he eats them both by the handful.

hrm... could the loony behavior be dieoff? it had been some time since he had eaten either fermented veggies, and he has eaten quite lot within the past few days (even by my standards)...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
That's great that the custom probiotics are helping...what strains do you have and how much are you giving her?

DD is taking this one. I called and told the guy (Harry) about dd's CDSA and this is what he recommended. He's pretty knowledgeable.

He suggested 1/2 cap in the a.m. for a week or two then increase to 1/2 cap in a.m. and 1/2 cap in p.m.

I'm still only doing 1/2 in the morning.


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## SweetAfton (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm mainly a lurker







: but I will be starting SCD/Maker's Diet soon. Right now I'm just reading up and gathering all the info I can.

*Yogurt maker*
The heating pad/stove/oven/cooler methods won't really work for me. I need a yogurt maker. Has anyone found one that keeps the yogurt within the desired temperature range?

*Juicer*
I'm going to buy a juicer... I know I'm going to have to pay a couple hundred bucks







: to get a good one. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good juicer that won't get hot and kill the enzymes, leave metal scrapings in my juice, or anything else bad? I'd like a good one that'll last for decades so I'm willing to pay big bucks for it.

Thanks so much for the help!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I had a really bad reaction to CO. Bloating; burning when I used body products with it (dr. bronner's); huge zit when I put lip balm on after not using it or ingesting it for a week. Maybe that was all just die off??? That is why I have stayed away from caprylic acid, because most supplements are from coconut. I had not heard about biotin yet. At this point I don't know that I want to go faster because DS isn't reacting well.







: I am sorry your DH is being deployed. How long will he be gone? Will he come home for visits at all? There is always phone and email, is your DD fascinated with the phone? It will be a huge adjustment when your DH gets back, but there is no one like daddy.
DS is close to walking, he walks hanging onto my pinky, we are just waiting for him to realize he can do it on his own. The IL's are coming next weekend, maybe he will do it then.

I forgot you had problems with coconut products. The bloating and the zit sound like die-off but I'm not sure about the burning. I can't remember--are you doing the SCD without honey and fruit?

DH will "only" be gone for 6 months so he doesn't get any leave during that time. DD likes the phone but she tries to press the buttons and tends to hang up on people who talk to her


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
For my 6 mo old, I mix 1/4 tsp filtered, unchilled water with the probiotic powder and then use one of the medicine droppers (actually not the dropper but the kind that is like a shot without the needle) to squirt it in her mouth slowly (towards the back so that its harder to spit out). Not sure how it would work with an older kiddo, but it's working well for us. This was the only way I could get enough of the powder in her to make a difference and make sure she actually ingested it.

I wonder if he will tolerate that - he can fight pretty hard when he doesn't like something. But I'm going to try it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
on baby constipation - really strong epsom salt baths and, if your dc can handle it without behavioral issues later, let them drink the bathwater. ds now lies on his tummy (on his own!) in the bath when he has constipation issues (usually about 1x per week). now that he stands up to pee in the tub, i only let him drink until he pees (usually at the end of the bath). i guess the combination of the strong warm-tepid bath, the salts, and the self-induced belly rub help get things moving.

Ah...maybe I'm not adding enough epsom salts. I'll go crazy with them then.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
chasmyn, I wanted to add that you should limit the amount of binding food that your ds eats -- not only the old BRAT (bananas, rice, apples, toast) list but also carrots and cheese. Pears, prunes, figs, avocado, any fruit except apples really, will help. I used to give a combination of chopped prunes and whole blueberries to ds when he was a toddler -- he loved it! It looked kinda icky, but it must have been really sweet!

Sigh....there are so few foods he will eat already. But you're right. Of course you realize three of his favourite foods are apples, bananas and cooked carrots, right?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:

on the upside, we saw my parents at thanksgiving so we now have a fresh batch of homemade pickles. i also pulled out a bit of my mom's sauerkraut. i can't for the life of me get ds to choke down powdered probiotics. if his water looks anything different from water, he won't drink it. so i've been letting him chew down as many pickles as he wants along with as much sauerkraut as he wants. he eats them both by the handful.

hrm... could the loony behavior be dieoff? it had been some time since he had eaten either fermented veggies, and he has eaten quite lot within the past few days (even by my standards)...
You are so lucky to have a mom that makes fermented veggies! Nolan has been eating my ginger carrots, another thing I had not considered with his die-off. I have to start thinking of these things as medicine instead of just yummy foods to eat, I am getting us in trouble. DS is drooling and chewing on things, I thought we would see another tooth but nothing has popped through so I'm sure its yeast.

Quote:

I forgot you had problems with coconut products. The bloating and the zit sound like die-off but I'm not sure about the burning. I can't remember--are you doing the SCD without honey and fruit?
Problems or die off, who knows. Maybe I will try it again in small amounts, after things calm down a bit. I am going to get some biotin today though, seems like it might not cause die off since it doesn't kill the yeast, it prevents it from turning into fungus. (That's what I understand from doing a littl ereading.) We are doing SCD no fruit and a bit of honey here and there in baked goods.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
You are so lucky to have a mom that makes fermented veggies! Nolan has been eating my ginger carrots, another thing I had not considered with his die-off. I have to start thinking of these things as medicine instead of just yummy foods to eat, I am getting us in trouble. DS is drooling and chewing on things, I thought we would see another tooth but nothing has popped through so I'm sure its yeast.

my mom is from eastern Europe and grew up eating in the NT-style (only they didn't call it that!) so, in effect, I did for awhile too. until she got busy being a mom, a teacher, a student, a union leader, a ... well, i don't know how she did it all. she's just recently returned to reall traditional cooking after a lot of prodding from me. she also makes AWESOME traditional sourdough bread. i also just got her hooked on kefir (though she isn't quite as much of an addict as i am).

she is totally supportive of our diet changes - annoyingly so, in fact. "can you eat this?" is a frequent question. and my dad teases us: "we took ds to the mall and got him a hot dog and an ice cream cone... haha just kidding."

anyhow... i posted to a thread that Annikate started in Traditional Foods about her pickle recipe if you want it. she claims it was a bad year for cukes (mildew) but not in her backyard.

somewhere here i found the recipe for Midas Gold pancakes (with cashew butter)... they are very good. in fact, they are the first pancake that ds ever liked. plain, even.

an another note - is it a sign of yeast when one's typing becomes almost dyslexic? i can't seem to type today at all...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Y I am going to get some biotin today though, seems like it might not cause die off since it doesn't kill the yeast, it prevents it from turning into fungus.

old but probably reliable since it is in a peer-reviewed journal (older articles tend to be naive but better written and more trustworthy because there wasn't as much commercial impetus for various almost commissioned work): http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/toc...d&artid=278756

"GROWTH PROMOTING EFFECT OF SOME BIOTIN ANALOGUES FOR CANDIDA ALBICANS"

an excerpt from the first paragraph:

Previous reports have indicated that many strains of Candida albicans and related species require biotin for growth aind that thiamine is stimulatory or essential for some strains... Practically all of them required biotin; a few needed also thiamine, vitamin B6, or nicotinic acid, either singly or in different combinations.

i haven't really followed up on this one but it might merit a close read (free on pubmedcentral!).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
old but probably reliable since it is in a peer-reviewed journal (older articles tend to be naive but better written and more trustworthy because there wasn't as much commercial impetus for various almost commissioned work): http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/toc...d&artid=278756

"GROWTH PROMOTING EFFECT OF SOME BIOTIN ANALOGUES FOR CANDIDA ALBICANS"

an excerpt from the first paragraph:

Previous reports have indicated that many strains of Candida albicans and related species require biotin for growth aind that thiamine is stimulatory or essential for some strains... Practically all of them required biotin; a few needed also thiamine, vitamin B6, or nicotinic acid, either singly or in different combinations.

i haven't really followed up on this one but it might merit a close read (free on pubmedcentral!).

Sigh. Can't anything be simple? I guess I will have to do some searching--the stuff I've read said that Candida couldn't turn into the invasive form if enough biotin was present.

On a somewhat related note, the more I read the more I think a lot of the information on the candidasupport yahoo group is inaccurate (I don't know if anyone else is doing that anymore or not). I still think the basic principles of the diet are sound, but there are many many things in the files, etc that are totally wrong, IMO...and the list owner and moderators aren't open to anything that contracts their information, either.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

heh - this is biology, one of the messiest sciences... so of course it isn't easy







but that's what makes it fun (from the research perspective, that is).

i agree with your opininon on the anticandida group. i joined just to get the files and such. having read it all, i found it a little too overbearing and restrictive for my liking, so i immediately quit the group.

what about coming up with a new diet?

do the beginning stages of SCD to purge your system (or some variant thereof). then start adding things that don't feed yeast. we know that yeast's #1 source of energy is glucose (i have a paper to read about glucose receptors in candida; will report on that later) so, hold back on sugar and any potential allergens (dairy, wheat, etc.) but introduce more meat (a really good source of natural glutamine, btw) and digestible veggies and some form of lactofermented foods. maybe use molasses or honey as a sweetener after the initial purging.

for the longest time in the spring, we ate lamb and broccoli (even though it isn't the most digestible thing) the same way over and over and over again. at least i knew that the digestive issues were just because i don't handle sulphurous foods.

i would also retain any basic (not fancy) supplements one is taking prior to the purging "diet".

i'm beginning to gather that yeast is (a) part of one's natural flora but that (b) it comes and goes in waves, depending on food intake.

using NT principles helps with digestion a lot, so for a newbie, i would advocate adopting those and whenthey aren't feasible or practical to adopt (e.g., soaking flour), find an alternative (e.g., dont' use flour).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Bleuts-thank you for the info on the biotin. There is a lot of misinformation out there.







: Thankfully I had not bought it.

Ds's birthday is next week. I thought I would make him some pumpkin jello. Can I use a touch of honey to sweeten it now that he is a year old? Or I could use a banana, which is the lesser of the 2 evils? No cake for him or me.

Caedmyn-what are you making for your DD?


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## cjanelles (Oct 22, 2005)

Hi everyone...

I'm not sure if this is the place for me, but it seems like a good place to start...

My 9 yr old daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's last year, after 2 years of stomach problems and no weight gain or increase in height. She was hospitalized for a week and set on a regement of steroidal (and other) drugs.

I wasn't comfortable with the idea of my litle girl being steroids, and we transitioned to probiotics and made some dietary changes. After the healing that occurred with the intensive treatment in the hospital, she seemed to react well to the probiotics and change in diet, and she's been good for the past year...

Unfortunately, it seems that some of her symptoms are returning and I'm afraid she's heading back towards the gastro-specialist.

Can anyone offer any advice that I might take into consideration before we resort back to traditional medicine?


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

What's the *shelf life* of homemade coconut milk yogurt? We just gave up dairy today...








:

Samantha


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cjanelles* 
Hi everyone...

I'm not sure if this is the place for me, but it seems like a good place to start...

My 9 yr old daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's last year, after 2 years of stomach problems and no weight gain or increase in height. She was hospitalized for a week and set on a regement of steroidal (and other) drugs.

I wasn't comfortable with the idea of my litle girl being steroids, and we transitioned to probiotics and made some dietary changes. After the healing that occurred with the intensive treatment in the hospital, she seemed to react well to the probiotics and change in diet, and she's been good for the past year...

Unfortunately, it seems that some of her symptoms are returning and I'm afraid she's heading back towards the gastro-specialist.

Can anyone offer any advice that I might take into consideration before we resort back to traditional medicine?

Welcome! Have you read the sticky at the top of the health and healing page? That's a good place to start.

Look at the Specific Carbohydrate Diet stuff.
hth


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
What's the *shelf life* of homemade coconut milk yogurt? We just gave up dairy today...







:

Samantha

Mine was definitely bad after two weeks but still fine after a week. I didn't use it in between then so I don't know exactly when it started going bad.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
heh - this is biology, one of the messiest sciences... so of course it isn't easy







but that's what makes it fun (from the research perspective, that is).

i agree with your opininon on the anticandida group. i joined just to get the files and such. having read it all, i found it a little too overbearing and restrictive for my liking, so i immediately quit the group.

what about coming up with a new diet?

do the beginning stages of SCD to purge your system (or some variant thereof). then start adding things that don't feed yeast. we know that yeast's #1 source of energy is glucose (i have a paper to read about glucose receptors in candida; will report on that later) so, hold back on sugar and any potential allergens (dairy, wheat, etc.) but introduce more meat (a really good source of natural glutamine, btw) and digestible veggies and some form of lactofermented foods. maybe use molasses or honey as a sweetener after the initial purging.

for the longest time in the spring, we ate lamb and broccoli (even though it isn't the most digestible thing) the same way over and over and over again. at least i knew that the digestive issues were just because i don't handle sulphurous foods.

i would also retain any basic (not fancy) supplements one is taking prior to the purging "diet".

i'm beginning to gather that yeast is (a) part of one's natural flora but that (b) it comes and goes in waves, depending on food intake.

using NT principles helps with digestion a lot, so for a newbie, i would advocate adopting those and whenthey aren't feasible or practical to adopt (e.g., soaking flour), find an alternative (e.g., dont' use flour).

Doing the initial diet on the SCD for a couple of days for newbies is a good idea--I definitely had die-off both times I did that. The only problem with adding in foods that don't feed yeast is that there is so much disagreement about what foods actually don't feed the yeast. Some say some grains (rice, aramanth, quinoa, buckwheat) are okay, some say they aren't. Some say all veggies are okay, some say no starches or are even more restrictive. I really think lactofermented foods and/or high doses of probiotics are the key, although diet changes are probably necessary, too. Oh, and don't forget some sort of anti-fungal.

If you get a chance to do any more searching on biotin/candida, will you post what you find? Everything I can find says biotin deficiency is linked to candida overgrowth and they talk about studies but I can't actually find studies. I tried searching PubMed but can't find anything--apparently I'm not very good at searching it because I rarely find anything I'm looking for there.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Bleuts-thank you for the info on the biotin. There is a lot of misinformation out there.







: Thankfully I had not bought it.

Ds's birthday is next week. I thought I would make him some pumpkin jello. Can I use a touch of honey to sweeten it now that he is a year old? Or I could use a banana, which is the lesser of the 2 evils? No cake for him or me.

Caedmyn-what are you making for your DD?

I think I'm going to make DD the pumpkin pie filling recipe from pecanbread.com and try to whip some coconut cream for frosting, maybe with a little bit of sugar in there for a better consistency. I really want "frosting" for pictures. She's had the pumpkin pie filling before and seems to do okay with it so I figure that's a good choice for her.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

This morning DD pooped a chunk of something that looked like thick green jelly. Anyone have any idea what it could be? She hasn't been getting any solids other than CO and coconut milk kefir. Lately she's been pooping in the middle of the night--anywhere from 2-5 am, and then it takes anywhere from 1/2-1 1/2 hrs to get her back to sleep.







:

Also, DD's had runny and/or green poop for the last two weeks, ever since I fed her some sweet potato. Could eating something that doesn't agree with her once still be causing poop issues two weeks later? I also upped her dose of probiotics at the same time--could that be having a negative impact on her poop, like if one of more of the strains didn't agree with her? There are 12 strains in the brand I started giving her, but it is still bifidus dominant.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Hi, all - we're finally back to somewhat of our normal routine after a crazy long weekend (fun, but very challenging from a food perspective - I didn't plan ahead as much as I should have!)

I've been refraining from asking this question because I'm scared to get the answer, but alas, here I go chipping away at the brick of ignorant bliss once again --

talk to me about yeast signs in little ones (DD is 6 mos today!) I really don't think I have yeast issues right now (I have at other points in my life, so I know what it is like, but have been clear of all that for about 7 years now), but DD does drool a lot and always want her hands in her mouth. But she's 6 mos - isn't that somewhat normal? It could be teething, but if so, it's probably not imminent - more like preteething (DD#1 didn't get her first tooth until 14 mos, and dh and I both were late teethers - both well after a year). Which leads me to another question - is late teething associated with all this stuff or could it just be unrelated? Aside from the drooling and hands in mouth, she really doesn't have any other yeasty symptoms. So, should I be worried about this or just chalk it up to normal? Also, can she have yeast issues if she is ebf and I don't have them? I'm new to all the yeast stuff in little ones.

On the upside, cutting out cinnamon seems to have made a humongo difference with the yakking, so I'm very happy about that (well, not about giving it up, but about finding something that has made a big difference).

thanks!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Doing the initial diet on the SCD for a couple of days for newbies is a good idea--I definitely had die-off both times I did that. The only problem with adding in foods that don't feed yeast is that there is so much disagreement about what foods actually don't feed the yeast. Some say some grains (rice, aramanth, quinoa, buckwheat) are okay, some say they aren't. Some say all veggies are okay, some say no starches or are even more restrictive. I really think lactofermented foods and/or high doses of probiotics are the key, although diet changes are probably necessary, too. Oh, and don't forget some sort of anti-fungal.

when i added grains initially, i started with rice then only much later i added sourdough bread. i think i'm better off with fermented wheat than with the unfermented stuff.

Quote:

If you get a chance to do any more searching on biotin/candida, will you post what you find? Everything I can find says biotin deficiency is linked to candida overgrowth and they talk about studies but I can't actually find studies. I tried searching PubMed but can't find anything--apparently I'm not very good at searching it because I rarely find anything I'm looking for there.
pubmed is a bit weird but it does accept "AND" and "OR" in the search field.

just a quick pass at this before i have to write a report...

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...2.2000.00841.x
Cutaneous and neurologic manifestations of biotinidase deficiency
(no free access to this article but PM me if you want it)
(get yourself a dictionary for this one!)

abstract: A male newborn with no obstetric or familial antecedents, except that his parents were cousins, developed hypotonia, lethargy, and feeding problems from birth. Analysis revealed a marked metabolic acidosis and hyperammonemia. Three weeks later, he was admitted to hospital in order to receive parenteral nutrition and to undertake a study for metabolic diseases.

The boy did not improve in spite of the use of parenteral nutrition and began to present with inspiratory stridor and tachypnea. One week later, he presented with an erythematous scaling eruption, which was especially intense in the lumbosacral region ( Fig. 1a,b).The scalp was only slightly affected.

Laboratory findings were compatible with biotinidase deficiency diagnosed by demonstrating absent enzyme activity. His parents were also studied and they were found to have partial biotinidase deficiency (30% of enzyme activity).

After 37 days of life, the baby was given a treatment consisting of 20 mg of biotin per day intravenously. Biochemical and neurologic alterations improved quickly.

Meckel's diverticulum and a duodenal membrane were detected at the second month of life after a gastroduodenal survey, and both were operated on. The skin lesions did not improve, however, and intravenous biotin had to be increased to 40 mg/day. The eruption disappeared after 10 days.

On his first birthday, he remained asymptomatic with 40 mg of oral biotin.

highlights:
- Biotin deficiency results from different mechanisms: acquired deficiencies (consumption of raw egg whites or parenteral nutrition without biotin supplementation) and innate errors of biotin metabolism (holocarboxylase synthetase deficiency and biotinidase deficiency). The holocarboxylases are then used in 3 pathways: amino acid catabolism, fatty acid synthesis, and gluconeogenesis.

- Biotinidase deficiency is inherited as an autosomal recessive trait .... (one gene, not linked to the sex chromosomes, and inherited from both parents)

- Most children suffer a combination of neurologic and cutaneous symptoms and have abnormal metabolic alterations. The onset varies between 1 or 2 weeks to 1 year of life or older (mean: 5 months). The most frequent symptoms are development delay, hypotonia, and seizures. These children may have feeding problems, irritability, and lethargy, and frequently present with respiratory problems (apnea, hyperventilation, and stridor).

- There is a lack of dermatologic literature describing skin features in this disease. ... More severe cases can show lichenification, crusting, and open lesions that may become infected by Candida (because of immune deficiencies). The hair is sparse and thin and children usually have total or partial alopecia that can include the eyebrows and eyelashes.

- Impaired synthesis or metabolism of long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids is probably more important. Supplements of ω-6-PUFA administered to biotin-deficient rats prevented the development of cutaneous manifestations.

- Biotinidase deficiency can be diagnosed by demonstrating decreased or absent enzyme activity in serum, peripheral blood leukocytes, or cultured skin fibroblasts.

- Biotinidase deficiency should be considered in children with skin eruption or hair loss who also show neurologic dysfunction, especially infantile seizures, or unexplained breathing problems associated with ketolactic acidosis, organic aciduria, and hyperammonemia. Differential diagnoses include acrodermatitis enteropathica, seborrheic dermatitis, immunodeficiencies, or other syndromes.

- The clinical consequences of this disorder can be prevented by a simple form of therapy with oral biotin with doses ranging from 5 to 40 mg per day. The metabolic derangement and seizures resolve quickly and the skin eruption disappears within a week or two. If treatment is delayed, however, the neurologic damage may be permanent, with auditory loss and impaired vision. The therapy should be continued for life and the required doses vary according to each patient.

---------------

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin....21308.x/full/
Dermatologic Signs of Biotin Deficiency Leading to the Diagnosis of Multiple Carboxylase Deficiency
(no free access either)

abstract: The biotin-responsive, multiple carboxylase deficiencies are autosomal recessively inherited disorders of metabolism in which biotin-dependent carboxylases show diminished activity. This results in an accumulation of organic acids in the urine. The clinical picture involves the nervous system, skin, respiratory system, digestive system, and immune system. The disorder has a good prognosis if biotin therapy is introduced early. If not, it can result in irreversible damage to the central nervous system and early death from metabolic acidosis. We report a 4-year-old girl with unexplained seizures that did not respond well to anticonvulsants. The development of skin problems, which histologically could match the diagnosis of a nutritional dermatitis, together with the fact that the child was constantly eating without gaining weight, led us to the diagnosis of a metabolic disorder. The accumulation of organic acids in the urine suggested the possibility of a biotin deficiency. With biotin therapy the skin problems resolved completely. The seizures also diminished. This case shows that in young children with unexplained seizures that do not respond well to classic anticonvulsant therapy, the possibility of biotin deficiency should always be considered. This article also includes a thorough review of the skin manifestations and other problems caused by biotin deficiency.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Hi Mamas,
How does one determine ones level of yeast infestation? It seems like for most of you the yeast is less entrenched than in me, which I gather from my lack of impact (no die-off, no improvement, no worsening). There are those that say you must be STRICT with the whole protocal for at least a year to eradicate it. I know someone who did the diet/antifungals/etc. - it took 12 mos to be symptom free, and 6 of those she did psyllium/bentonite shakes 2x/day. That's something Ive been thinking about - cleansing; it makes sense that if the yeast are burrowed, you would need some kind of scrubbing action? And that then the antifungals could be more effective (I know psyliium is not supposed to be great for lgs, but I figure its a balance, in the same way that many antifungals supposedly affect good bugs too).

Ive been on nystatin for a week. This is the most change Ive had in these 4 mos (the rash on my eye looks a little better). I guess the hard part for me is the not knowing - do I just continue for year and then one day I will be symptom free? How do you see this for yourselves? My current thoughts are to add some kind of cleansing for a few months along with some intestinal healing (l-glutamine, aloe?). Although I think psyllium/bentonite drinks need to be taken on an empty stomach, and so does nystatin, 4x/day. I dont have that much time in the day with an empty stomach (2 hrs after, 1 hr before eating).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

saskiasmom - mine goes in cycles... i get the yeasty feeling where the sun doesn't shine, coupled with an inability to focus and type. (yeah, yeah... i have a report waiting to be written but i can't focus, right?) a few years ago, i found that i need only cut back on bad grains, sugary things, and, in the past, cheese and within a few weeks all would be well again. i think there may have been some relationship to AF as well.

i haven't really increased sugar though i did eat a lot of sweet things last week - with rice flour. so maybe that triggered things for me. my bowels change a bit as well - going from 2-3 trips to 1 massive one especially after my morning coffee.

i'll keep you posted on my recovery this time 'round.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
This morning DD pooped a chunk of something that looked like thick green jelly. Anyone have any idea what it could be? She hasn't been getting any solids other than CO and coconut milk kefir. Lately she's been pooping in the middle of the night--anywhere from 2-5 am, and then it takes anywhere from 1/2-1 1/2 hrs to get her back to sleep.







:

Also, DD's had runny and/or green poop for the last two weeks, ever since I fed her some sweet potato. Could eating something that doesn't agree with her once still be causing poop issues two weeks later? I also upped her dose of probiotics at the same time--could that be having a negative impact on her poop, like if one of more of the strains didn't agree with her? There are 12 strains in the brand I started giving her, but it is still bifidus dominant.

how does this correspond to the start of the new probiotics? could she be just readjusting (adapting?) her gut flora to the new strains?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
how does this correspond to the start of the new probiotics? could she be just readjusting (adapting?) her gut flora to the new strains?

I started giving her the new probiotics the same day she had the sweet potato. I can see probiotics giving her loose stools, but two weeks seems like a long time for the loose stools to continue. And would probiotics cause green stools?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Hi Mamas,
How does one determine ones level of yeast infestation? It seems like for most of you the yeast is less entrenched than in me, which I gather from my lack of impact (no die-off, no improvement, no worsening). There are those that say you must be STRICT with the whole protocal for at least a year to eradicate it. I know someone who did the diet/antifungals/etc. - it took 12 mos to be symptom free, and 6 of those she did psyllium/bentonite shakes 2x/day. That's something Ive been thinking about - cleansing; it makes sense that if the yeast are burrowed, you would need some kind of scrubbing action? And that then the antifungals could be more effective (I know psyliium is not supposed to be great for lgs, but I figure its a balance, in the same way that many antifungals supposedly affect good bugs too).

Ive been on nystatin for a week. This is the most change Ive had in these 4 mos (the rash on my eye looks a little better). I guess the hard part for me is the not knowing - do I just continue for year and then one day I will be symptom free? How do you see this for yourselves? My current thoughts are to add some kind of cleansing for a few months along with some intestinal healing (l-glutamine, aloe?). Although I think psyllium/bentonite drinks need to be taken on an empty stomach, and so does nystatin, 4x/day. I dont have that much time in the day with an empty stomach (2 hrs after, 1 hr before eating).




I don't know if it has to do with yeast entrenchment but with finding the proper protocol for you. IMO, if you haven't seen improvement yet, what you're doing isn't going to work and you need to do something different. Yes it may take a long time to be symptom free, but you should be seeing improvement or at least die-off starting pretty early, IMO.

I've read that psyllium can be hard on your gut if it's not healthy. I don't think you need to scrub out the yeast--my understand is that part of them are exposed and all you need to do is take something that will kill them. You don't have to uncover them to get rid of them, if that makes any sense. You could try it for a few weeks and see what happens, though.

Have you tried anything like kefir/water kefir, kombucha, or Threelac? Maybe super strong probiotics in kefir, s. boullardi in kombucha, or the different probiotic strains in Threelac would help you.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Hi, all - we're finally back to somewhat of our normal routine after a crazy long weekend (fun, but very challenging from a food perspective - I didn't plan ahead as much as I should have!)

I've been refraining from asking this question because I'm scared to get the answer, but alas, here I go chipping away at the brick of ignorant bliss once again --

talk to me about yeast signs in little ones (DD is 6 mos today!) I really don't think I have yeast issues right now (I have at other points in my life, so I know what it is like, but have been clear of all that for about 7 years now), but DD does drool a lot and always want her hands in her mouth. But she's 6 mos - isn't that somewhat normal? It could be teething, but if so, it's probably not imminent - more like preteething (DD#1 didn't get her first tooth until 14 mos, and dh and I both were late teethers - both well after a year). Which leads me to another question - is late teething associated with all this stuff or could it just be unrelated? Aside from the drooling and hands in mouth, she really doesn't have any other yeasty symptoms. So, should I be worried about this or just chalk it up to normal? Also, can she have yeast issues if she is ebf and I don't have them? I'm new to all the yeast stuff in little ones.

On the upside, cutting out cinnamon seems to have made a humongo difference with the yakking, so I'm very happy about that (well, not about giving it up, but about finding something that has made a big difference).

thanks!

Yes your DD can have candida even if you don't. Did you have a C section, or did either of you have antibiotics during or since the birth? Really anything that caused her to have abnormal gut flora could allow yeast to overgrow. OTC meds, a few bottles of formula, vaxes, etc could all alter her gut flora, and if your gut flora was off during the birth, that would affect her, too.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Yes your DD can have candida even if you don't. Did you have a C section, or did either of you have antibiotics during or since the birth? Really anything that caused her to have abnormal gut flora could allow yeast to overgrow. OTC meds, a few bottles of formula, vaxes, etc could all alter her gut flora, and if your gut flora was off during the birth, that would affect her, too.

vaginal birth, no drugs, no abx. I probably didn't have a good gut flora at birth, though, due to some major sinus infections I had while pregnant and one dose of abx (when I seriously thought the sinus infection was going to kill me) at about 5 mos. I also had a huge oversupply, and I think that alsocontributed.

I know she has a messed up gut flora (as do I), but I wasn't sure if all the events correlating/caused by gut flora imbalance were the same drivers of yeast. Thanks!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
This morning DD pooped a chunk of something that looked like thick green jelly. Anyone have any idea what it could be? She hasn't been getting any solids other than CO and coconut milk kefir. Lately she's been pooping in the middle of the night--anywhere from 2-5 am, and then it takes anywhere from 1/2-1 1/2 hrs to get her back to sleep.







:

Also, DD's had runny and/or green poop for the last two weeks, ever since I fed her some sweet potato. Could eating something that doesn't agree with her once still be causing poop issues two weeks later? I also upped her dose of probiotics at the same time--could that be having a negative impact on her poop, like if one of more of the strains didn't agree with her? There are 12 strains in the brand I started giving her, but it is still bifidus dominant.

Sorry your dd is going through that. It sounds like she is not tolerating something. I know that's kinda







but my guess would be something in the probiotic.

I don't like green poopy at all. For us it's always meant problems.

DD is still b'feeding right? Have you taken anything different?

My dd gets green runny poops when I take anything with echinacea in it. Just thought I'd throw that out there. . . .


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think I'm going to make DD the pumpkin pie filling recipe from pecanbread.com and try to whip some coconut cream for frosting, maybe with a little bit of sugar in there for a better consistency. I really want "frosting" for pictures. She's had the pumpkin pie filling before and seems to do okay with it so I figure that's a good choice for her.

I used a *tiny* bit of honey for my dd. I made sure she only had a taste. She didn't like it anyway.

BTW, I found my copy of BTVC. If you want me to post the recipes lmk.

I'm off to buy the ingredients for jello. Dd1 is into jello all of a sudden.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Sorry your dd is going through that. It sounds like she is not tolerating something. I know that's kinda







but my guess would be something in the probiotic.

I don't like green poopy at all. For us it's always meant problems.

DD is still b'feeding right? Have you taken anything different?

My dd gets green runny poops when I take anything with echinacea in it. Just thought I'd throw that out there. . . .

I'm not too keen on the green poop myself. These probiotics do have FOS in them (just a little as they come in capsules). I wonder if she could be reacting to that.

She is still BF'ing (almost exclusively). I started kombucha but I've only been drinking it for four days now so the digestive problems pre-date that. Other than that, no new supplements. Oh, I was taking Candex for a few days at the same time she started the new probiotics. But I haven't taken any since Friday morning although she's getting it now. She never reacted to Candidase, though, so I wouldn't think that would be the problem. But who knows. What reaction did your DD have to Candex?

I guess I can stop the probiotics for a few days and see if her poop improves and then maybe do another trial with it--I should be able to tell really quick if the probiotic was the problem if I restart it, assuming stopping it clears up the poop problems.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Any thoughts on a rotation diet? We have already removed quite a few foods, but I don't want dd to become allergic to the ones we eat frequently that are safe (like oats). I'm wondering if anyone else has tried it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

bump...

caedmyn - the enzymes in Candex appear to be a bunch of different ones compared to those in Candidase. perhaps she's reacting to them?

there's some debate in the GF circles whether maltase/malt diastase is gluten free. often it is derived from barley. so, if you or your dd are sensitive to gluten, that might be a source of concern and may merit some emails/calls to the makers of Candex.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
bump...

caedmyn - the enzymes in Candex appear to be a bunch of different ones compared to those in Candidase. perhaps she's reacting to them?

there's some debate in the GF circles whether maltase/malt diastase is gluten free. often it is derived from barley. so, if you or your dd are sensitive to gluten, that might be a source of concern and may merit some emails/calls to the makers of Candex.

The only enzyme in Candex that isn't in the enzymes I take with food is the glucoamylase, and she doesn't appear to have problems with the ones I take with food. Or could taking them in between meals have a different effect on her? I am not sensitive to gluten. I don't know if DD is but she's never had any reaction like this to gluten-containing foods which I've been eating quite frequently so I wouldn't think any gluten in the enzymes would affect her even if she is gluten-intolerant.

What are common symptoms of gluten-intolerance in babies/children?

I think the Candex is giving DD a bit of die-off even though it is not supposed to. She has been a bit cranky and clingy for the last couple of days for no apparent reason, and she was acting a bit odd (upset, very squirmy, had trouble settling down to nurse) during her night wakings last night.

Nolansmom--are your water kefir grains growing well? Mine are hardly growing at all and I don't know if it's because I don't put very much sugar in there or because of the lemon juice I usually put in my kefir sodas.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

anybody tried it? I'm interested, but scared to spend that much without knowing anybody who has tried it. Would love your thoughts if you have . . .


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
anybody tried it? I'm interested, but scared to spend that much without knowing anybody who has tried it. Would love your thoughts if you have . . .

I think Annikate has it...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Any thoughts on a rotation diet? We have already removed quite a few foods, but I don't want dd to become allergic to the ones we eat frequently that are safe (like oats). I'm wondering if anyone else has tried it.

Haven't tried the custom probiotics starter but wanted to respond to this.

I think rotation diets have their merits. My DAN doc believes in them but they must be done meticulously.

As far as the frequent foods goes, I'm a bit concerned about dds (and myself) consuming too much almond flour. I mean, until recently that's all I've been baking with since January.

I'm branching out to some of the Namaste stuff (not SCD legal) but I've found that I really have grown to like the almond flour and other gluten-free stuff tastes awful.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn said:


> What are common symptoms of gluten-intolerance in babies/children?/QUOTE]
> diahrea OR constipation, green poopies, frothy poops, the classic allergy eyes (red bumps around them, swollen, dark circles, sunken-in look.)
> 
> And, for my dd, those PLUS stimming type behaviors, sleeplessness, tendency toward aggression, and a general look of being totally somewhere other than *here*.
> ...


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Haven't tried the custom probiotics starter but wanted to respond to this.

I think rotation diets have their merits. My DAN doc believes in them but they must be done meticulously.

As far as the frequent foods goes, I'm a bit concerned about dds (and myself) consuming too much almond flour. I mean, until recently that's all I've been baking with since January.

I'm branching out to some of the Namaste stuff (not SCD legal) but I've found that I really have grown to like the almond flour and other gluten-free stuff tastes awful.

Thanks. The research I've read says you can rotate every 4 to 7 days. We're going out of town next week, but when we get back, I'm going to try it. We're already so limited on what we can/will eat (no dairy, corn, soy, nuts/tree nuts, fish/shellfish, citrus fruits) that it probably won't be too much more painful, lol.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Thanks. The research I've read says you can rotate every 4 to 7 days. We're going out of town next week, but when we get back, I'm going to try it. We're already so limited on what we can/will eat (no dairy, corn, soy, nuts/tree nuts, fish/shellfish, citrus fruits) that it probably won't be too much more painful, lol.

The rotation diet *guru* and I guess the one who *developed* the program is in **********. He's old and retired now but still works on the research end of it. My DAN doc told me all about him and the great things his protocol has done.

I *might* be able to conjure up his name in the dusty corners of my memory if you want me to. Actually, it might be in my notes . . . Aha! Edmond Boyd (don't know if that spelling is correct though.)

If it were me though, I'd try to read everything by that guy and follow his way.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I used a *tiny* bit of honey for my dd. I made sure she only had a taste. She didn't like it anyway.

BTW, I found my copy of BTVC. If you want me to post the recipes lmk.

I'm off to buy the ingredients for jello. Dd1 is into jello all of a sudden.









Yes, please post the recipes







Or better yet, PM me so I don't have to search through the thread to find them







Thank you!


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Could I make ketchup w/ juice from my kim-chee? Im going out of town tomorrow and am out of ketchup, and dont have any rejuvelac on hand. Would the salt in the kimchee not produce enough fermentation?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Haven't tried the custom probiotics starter but wanted to respond to this.

I think rotation diets have their merits. My DAN doc believes in them but they must be done meticulously.

As far as the frequent foods goes, I'm a bit concerned about dds (and myself) consuming too much almond flour. I mean, until recently that's all I've been baking with since January.

I'm branching out to some of the Namaste stuff (not SCD legal) but I've found that I really have grown to like the almond flour and other gluten-free stuff tastes awful.

Annikate, have you tried hazelnut, pecan or any other nut flours? We rotate nut flours and have been very happy with most that we've tried.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Could I make ketchup w/ juice from my kim-chee? Im going out of town tomorrow and am out of ketchup, and dont have any rejuvelac on hand. Would the salt in the kimchee not produce enough fermentation?

Definitely--I use juice from either kimchi or cortido (Mexican sauerkraut) as a starter for my ketchup.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone know anything about giving slippery elm bark powder (probably in a tea/infusion form) to babies? I keep reading in herbal books that it used to be commonly given to babies with diarrhea or failure-to-thrive babies and I'm wondering if it would be a good thing for DD. She doesn't have diarrhea but given her gut problems I wonder if it would help her.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think the Candex is giving DD a bit of die-off even though it is not supposed to. She has been a bit cranky and clingy for the last couple of days for no apparent reason, and she was acting a bit odd (upset, very squirmy, had trouble settling down to nurse) during her night wakings last night.

Nolansmom--are your water kefir grains growing well? Mine are hardly growing at all and I don't know if it's because I don't put very much sugar in there or because of the lemon juice I usually put in my kefir sodas.

I think candex is one of the things giving us die-off. I got some activated charcoal I thought I might try it for a few days. On enzymestuff.com it said to take the AC 30 min after the candex, but how long do i need to wait until eat?

My kefir grains are not growing well. I assumed it was because I only use 2-3 T of sugar. I am taking a break from kefir for a couple days and will start back slowly. It sure is powerful stuff-I have been extremely irritable the past few days, have not felt like this since starting SCD 5 months ago.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Do I absolutely need a starter for making coconut milk yogurt or can I just use probiotics? If I do need a starter, can someone recommend one that is GF/CF? We're also off eggs if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Samantha


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## cjanelles (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Welcome! Have you read the sticky at the top of the health and healing page? That's a good place to start.

Look at the Specific Carbohydrate Diet stuff.
hth

Hi Annikate...

Thanks for the response. I'll definitely check that out.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Do I absolutely need a starter for making coconut milk yogurt or can I just use probiotics? If I do need a starter, can someone recommend one that is GF/CF? We're also off eggs if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Samantha

You can use probiotics, I've done it. I used about 1/2 tsp of probiotic powder (which contained roughly 8-12 billion CFU's of probiotics, although I don't know if the amount makes much of a difference or not) for 1 can of coconut milk. I also used some (maybe 2-4 Tbsp) of a previous batch as a starter for another batch.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Annikate, have you tried hazelnut, pecan or any other nut flours? We rotate nut flours and have been very happy with most that we've tried.

I'll have to try hazelnut. That sounds yummy. I tried Jane's bread recipe using pecan flour and I didn't like it.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

I don't know if this is in the right spot or not. I'm still learning my way around MDC. There is so much to learn!! After doing a TON of reading I am realizing that I most likely have a candida overpopulation. I want to be healthy...more than I ever have before *DS just turned one...I want to be around for a LONG time for him!!*

Does anyone know anything about the Lifeforce Plan. It was suggested from a friend and I can't seem to find good *research* on it.

Is there a different...cheaper way to do this?

TIA. I'm trying to read all the archives but I am so overwelmed. Links or suggestions would be great!!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

lifeforce plan...

i'm a little skeptical of products that don't go into much detail about their contents.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

No time to read but I wanted to ask some questions while I'm thinking of them. I'm here in CT at my parents on dial up so checking in is tough.

Anyhow. I have now read Bacteria for Breakfast. I'm convinced that trying some high doses of probiotics just might make a big difference for dd. But how do we afford it? And how do I get it into her? Her recomendation is no less than 100 billion cells a day! And even more than that is better. Like 400 billion to 2 trillion . That is like a bottle of pills a day for some of these.

Does anyone have any info on how much is in the properly made yogurt? How quickly do they multiply etc? Some way I can figure this out??? I figure that has to be cheaper than buying it but I don't know how much we would need a day.

Also, I have just heavily skimmed JR's Restoring Your Digestive Health (I think that title is right, his Guts and Glory program) Anyhow, I think he is a shady individual and yet I can't figure out why his program won't work. Has anyone tried it? You drink this brasco broth for 3 days to 2 weeks for every meal and then for the next 1-2 weeks you drink that plus lots of 30 hour goat yogurt (or other probiotic drink) and some well cooked veggies. THen you move on to his diet that is pretty similar to SCD for the next 3-12 months depending on your issue and how quickly you heal. Of course he also wants you taking a ton of suppliments that he sells but other than that I'm wondering what I'm missing. His theory is for the first part you are trying to just lower the popluation of bugs in your gut, both good and bad, then you flood your gut with the good guys in part two and hopefully they will fill in the space vacated by everyone in part 1. He of course recomends his own primal defense plus the 30 hour goat yogurt (no real recomendations on how to make that just to avoid the strepptococcus bacteria that is in nearly all yogurt, make bulgarian style yogurt). Well after reading bacteria for breakfast and figuring out exactly which bacteria I think dd and I need all of them (except for the lactobacillis GG) is in his primal defense. I'm pretty sure the only place to get the L. GG is culturelle, right?

Anyhow. I'm excited to get back from vacation to my home computer and start looking up stuff on pub med and where ever I can get my hands on it and figuring out exactly what to do. I have started taking ~1.5 billion cells a day and it has done interesting stuff to my poop. It kinda reminds me of little baby poop, orangy and soft.

Also, here at my parents DD is sleeping better than she ever has. I'm wondering exactly what it going on. She takes a 1.5 hour nap every day and I even hear her wake up in the middle and then put herself back to sleep. This has never happened. She also had one night where she slept for 6 hours straight w/o waking (3rd time in her life). Not sure what is different here, we are keeping to the diet just as strictly here as we do at home. THankfully my mother follows SCD and my nephew is very allergic to diary and soy so there is plenty available to eat and even the holiday was full of food we could eat.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Basically the three parts of any anti-candida plan are diet, anti-fungals, and probiotics. You can do it much much cheaper than the lifeforce plan.

As far as diet goes, there is a lot of disagreement about what foods you can/can't eat while fighting yeast overgrowth, but most plans require you to eliminate all sweeteners except stevia, all fruit/fruit juice, and grains. Some do allow a few grains, usually brown rice, aramanth, quinoa, buckwheat, and millet. Most allow nuts and seeds. Some allow beans and/or dairy. Most don't allow starchy veggies like potatoes and sweet potatoes. One plan (the one I'm doing) allows only meats, eggs, healthy fats, and low-carb veggies (no corn, peas, carrots, squash, or starches).

There are many natural anti-fungals out there. Are you pregnant or nursing? The only ones safe for pregnancy or nursing are raw garlic (cheapest), grapefruit seed extract, coconut oil, and enzymes between meals like Candex or Candizyme.

Probiotics..you can either purchase probiotics, or, preferably, make your own by making lacto-fermented foods like sauerkraut or pickles, or homemade yogurt, or kefir/water kefir. Kefir/water kefir will act as an anti-fungal to some degree as the beneficial yeasts will help crowd out the candida.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaspirant* 
I don't know if this is in the right spot or not. I'm still learning my way around MDC. There is so much to learn!! After doing a TON of reading I am realizing that I most likely have a candida overpopulation. I want to be healthy...more than I ever have before *DS just turned one...I want to be around for a LONG time for him!!*

Does anyone know anything about the Lifeforce Plan. It was suggested from a friend and I can't seem to find good *research* on it.

Is there a different...cheaper way to do this?

TIA. I'm trying to read all the archives but I am so overwelmed. Links or suggestions would be great!!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
No time to read but I wanted to ask some questions while I'm thinking of them. I'm here in CT at my parents on dial up so checking in is tough.

Anyhow. I have now read Bacteria for Breakfast. I'm convinced that trying some high doses of probiotics just might make a big difference for dd. But how do we afford it? And how do I get it into her? Her recomendation is no less than 100 billion cells a day! And even more than that is better. Like 400 billion to 2 trillion . That is like a bottle of pills a day for some of these.

Does anyone have any info on how much is in the properly made yogurt? How quickly do they multiply etc? Some way I can figure this out??? I figure that has to be cheaper than buying it but I don't know how much we would need a day.

Also, I have just heavily skimmed JR's Restoring Your Digestive Health (I think that title is right, his Guts and Glory program) Anyhow, I think he is a shady individual and yet I can't figure out why his program won't work. Has anyone tried it? You drink this brasco broth for 3 days to 2 weeks for every meal and then for the next 1-2 weeks you drink that plus lots of 30 hour goat yogurt (or other probiotic drink) and some well cooked veggies. THen you move on to his diet that is pretty similar to SCD for the next 3-12 months depending on your issue and how quickly you heal. Of course he also wants you taking a ton of suppliments that he sells but other than that I'm wondering what I'm missing. His theory is for the first part you are trying to just lower the popluation of bugs in your gut, both good and bad, then you flood your gut with the good guys in part two and hopefully they will fill in the space vacated by everyone in part 1. He of course recomends his own primal defense plus the 30 hour goat yogurt (no real recomendations on how to make that just to avoid the strepptococcus bacteria that is in nearly all yogurt, make bulgarian style yogurt). Well after reading bacteria for breakfast and figuring out exactly which bacteria I think dd and I need all of them (except for the lactobacillis GG) is in his primal defense. I'm pretty sure the only place to get the L. GG is culturelle, right?

Anyhow. I'm excited to get back from vacation to my home computer and start looking up stuff on pub med and where ever I can get my hands on it and figuring out exactly what to do. I have started taking ~1.5 billion cells a day and it has done interesting stuff to my poop. It kinda reminds me of little baby poop, orangy and soft.

Also, here at my parents DD is sleeping better than she ever has. I'm wondering exactly what it going on. She takes a 1.5 hour nap every day and I even hear her wake up in the middle and then put herself back to sleep. This has never happened. She also had one night where she slept for 6 hours straight w/o waking (3rd time in her life). Not sure what is different here, we are keeping to the diet just as strictly here as we do at home. THankfully my mother follows SCD and my nephew is very allergic to diary and soy so there is plenty available to eat and even the holiday was full of food we could eat.

Have you looked at the customprobiotics website? Theirs are pretty pricey but have very high probiotic counts--the blends generally have 200-250 billion CFU's per gram. A gram is something like 1/4 tsp, maybe a bit more, so you wouldn't have too much to get into her if you go that route. The VSL#3 that is mentioned in the book also has very high probiotic counts and is cheaper than customprobiotics, but a bit bulkier (6 grams for the 450 billion CFU's). I read the book, also, and want to try that angle but when I bumped DD up to 50 billion CFU's a day her poops became watery and green...I don't know if it's the probiotics or the sweet potato she got 1 time.

http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html
This link has info on bacterial counts of 24 hr yogurt and homemade kefir. I believe it says up to 1 TRILLION CFU's in 16 oz of yogurt and up to 5 TRILLION CFU's in 16 of kefir.

I considered doing Rubin's program at one point, because it sounds like it would work to me, but I don't think it's enough food for me while nursing. You could just culture your yogurt with whatever probiotic strains you want and not use a yogurt starter at all. I have read that the Primal Defense powder works a lot better than the tablets.

How did you figure out what strains you think you guys need? I can't decide, or at least can't find a product that has just what I want.

On the sleeping thing...if your DD reverts back to her old sleep pattern at home, maybe there is some sort of environmental issue at your home that is affecting her. That's all I can think of. My DD sleeps better at my in-laws home for some reason, but sleeps the same anywhere else we go. It's pitch-black in the room we use at my in-laws, so maybe that's why she sleeps so well...or maybe all the people she's not used to exhaust her, who knows.

ETA: the Primal Defense does look good as far as the strains it contains. The thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't say how many beneficial bacteria are in each serving.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone had lightheadness as a die-off symptom? I started about 2 oz of kombuch a day about a week ago and for the last three days have been a little lightheaded off and on. I'm not sure if it's die-off or of the sugar that's left in the kombucha is feeding the yeast and making my low-blood sugar issues come back.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anyone had lightheadness as a die-off symptom? I started about 2 oz of kombuch a day about a week ago and for the last three days have been a little lightheaded off and on. I'm not sure if it's die-off or of the sugar that's left in the kombucha is feeding the yeast and making my low-blood sugar issues come back.

not light-headedness, but kombucha gives me a nasty headache.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

firefaery,
I posted a question to you over in SCD Chefs . . .


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i can't even get 2oz of kombucha into me - blech. i'd rather just do ACV mixed with water.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

It is kind of strong...I should probably dilute it with water. It's not going to be my favorite, but I've definitely tasted worse.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I started the December thread...http://www.mothering.com/discussions...16#post6666416


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