# What would you do if you overheard this?



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Last night I was running into the grocery store really quickly for a bottle of wine. A lady was in the parking lot with her doors open, and she looked like she had about 4 kids, carseat age on up to about 8 years old. As I walk by the car I hear her say, "That smart mouth is going to get you the belt when we get home".

I seriously felt dizzy for a moment and so upset. I live in Alabama where corporal punishment is not just accepted, it's often encouraged. I didn't feel it was my place to say anything anyway, I just went on into the store.

But here is is, the next day, and I still can't get it off of my mind. She was going to use A BELT on one of those young ones in a carseat?









I don't think there is anything I could have said or done to change her mind, and I'm not the type to speak up or get involved in other people's parenting anyway .. but is a belt considered abuse? My guess is that here in Alabama, it's not. Anyway, I just needed to get it off my chest, I've been thinking about those 4 sweet kids all night, and just can't shake the sick feeling of hearing her talk about the belt.







:


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

"Excuse me, but I really hope you were kidding. Do I need to write down your license plate number and call the police?"


----------



## nighten (Oct 18, 2005)

Honestly, despite how terrible it sounds, I wouldn't say anything. If for no other reason than sometimes parents will take out any anger from comments on their kids.

If I saw her slap him I'd call the police. I don't agree with spanking or using a belt, but as you pointed out it's accepted as "normal" even though I (and you and others here) think it's wrong.

Truthfully, I'd walk away and pray like mad for those kids and that the mother would learn patience. Because saying something could make it worse for the child.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
"Excuse me, but I really hope you were kidding. Do I need to write down your license plate number and call the police?"









:

All kids subjected to abuse need to hear adults say that what they're experiencing is wrong.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 







:

All kids subjected to abuse need to hear adults say that what they're experiencing is wrong.









:

Silence is approval.


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nighten* 
Honestly, despite how terrible it sounds, I wouldn't say anything. If for no other reason than sometimes parents will take out any anger from comments on their kids.

If I saw her slap him I'd call the police. I don't agree with spanking or using a belt, but as you pointed out it's accepted as "normal" even though I (and you and others here) think it's wrong.

Truthfully, I'd walk away and pray like mad for those kids and that the mother would learn patience. Because saying something could make it worse for the child.


Exactly. I completely agree with you.


----------



## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
"Excuse me, but I really hope you were kidding. Do I need to write down your license plate number and call the police?"

I'm not sure I would have the guts to say this to someone (as much as I would applaud if I saw someone else do it).

I COULD say "It looks like you've got your hands full. Is there anything I can do to help?"


----------



## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

this is a big stretch, but maybe she was saying that with no follow through???? (we can only pray). my husband's family is very southern and from the country where country ain't cool in VA. when we visited, i heard his cousins say things like, "you're gonna get it"...or i'll wash that sassy mouth out with soap" ...or even comments about "giving them the belt". i DO NOT endorse this at all, but my point is his cousins don't do any of this. in fact, the children aren't disciplined at all (nada - nothing). the cousin was trying to "threaten" the kids into behaving well which was completely ineffective of course, but she never did anything to them at all. again, i'm not saying this is good or better as it's terrible, but hopefully that child didn't really get hurt when they went home. it's a stretch i know, but i hope that child didn't get hit with a belt.







:

PS - MY HUSBAND IS AWESOME AND VERY NORMAL AND SANE!!!!!







) THESE ARE DISTANT COUSINS (I hope)!!! we have seen them once right after i got married, so if you wonder why i didn't say anything-- i didn't want to get hit with the belt!


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead* 
I'm not sure I would have the guts to say this to someone (as much as I would applaud if I saw someone else do it).

I COULD say "It looks like you've got your hands full. Is there anything I can do to help?"

I like this approach.







and it sounds safer.


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

Oh ThreeBeans, I got chills when I read your very simple yet incredibly powerful message. You are absolutely right. And I agree that children need to know that it's not ok to be hit. That way they dont grow up believing they 'deserved it'.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 







:

Silence is approval.


Geeze, now I really do feel terrible. Of course I don't approve, but what is the right thing to do in that situation? I just don't have a strong enough personality to walk up and threaten to call the police .. plus around here, I think most officers would laugh at the thought that using a belt is abuse .. we still have schools here that paddle.







:

What is something I *can* do when I run across this again? I guarantee I will, I have no clue what the right thing to do is.


----------



## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Yep -- I'm deadhead. Thats what I do when I can -- _"Oh my -- you have your hands full! Kids are hard work. Can I help buckle kids in??"_

I would not be overly critical -- I have said drastic sounding things from time to time that I have not meant at all. A mama loading four kids into carseats needs supportive help, or to be left alone.


----------



## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

I'm not saying saying nothing is accepting it...but sticking your nose in a complete stranger's business could get you in trouble anyway...I know that sounds awful...but if she was having a crappy day ,the last thing she needs is some competely stranger criticizing her and her parenting skills. i know that would cause me to snap.

Maybe just a smile next time and a lighthearted comment to lighten the mood would work better. It would maybe catch her off guard, calm her down a bit. Like mamaduck said, something like. "Gotta love kids huh? (smile) They can be such a trial sometimes. Need a hand with anything?"


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
Geeze, now I really do feel terrible. Of course I don't approve, but what is the right thing to do in that situation? I just don't have a strong enough personality to walk up and threaten to call the police .. plus around here, I think most officers would laugh at the thought that using a belt is abuse .. we still have schools here that paddle.







:

What is something I *can* do when I run across this again? I guarantee I will, I have no clue what the right thing to do is.

What would you do if you saw a man hitting a woman with a belt/heard him threaten her with a belt?

If you are afraid for your own safety to intervene, call the police.

Maybe you're right, maybe they'll laugh at you.

But do you know how change happens? People SPEAK UP! They say, "THIS IS WRONG, THIS IS ABUSE, THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!"

And if the message is heard OFTEN enough, eventually people come together and do something about it. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE, if in my children's life time this country (USA) banned hitting same as Sweden. But it's not going to happen if we go home quietly tsking to ourselves. It's going to happen when people are brave enough to stand up and say, 'CHILDREN ARE PEOPLE, TOO" ! :


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I would have feared for my own safety if I'd approached her directly- so I wouldn't have.

You didn't witness abuse. You witnessed a parent threatening. We don't know if there was any follow-through. You don't know if "the belt" in that family means being belted into the "time out chair", or being given a belt instead of a favorite toy. Yes, most of the time "the belt" means being whipped with a belt, but you can't know for certain this is the case with this particular family.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 

I would not be overly critical -- I have said drastic sounding things from time to time that I have not meant at all. A mama loading four kids into carseats needs supportive help, or to be left alone.

I was under the impression that they were just sitting in the car, not that she had her hands full with buckling them in.

Anyway, I think it's wonderful that some of you would offer to help (although I'm not sure there was anything to help in this case). I've never been met with approval or relief when offering help to someone at their wit's end with their children, so I guess I'm a little jaded about its effect.


----------



## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

I'd wonder what my parents were doing in Alabama














:

Sorry, I know it's not a light thing, and I'm sorry you had to hear it. I'm more sorry that a child has to deal with it, but like a pp I hope that is one of the many parents who make ample use of idol threats.

I don't know if there is anything really that you could do. I'm sure that threatening that (esp. in your area) isn't considered abuse







:


----------



## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaomiMcC* 
Maybe just a smile next time and a lighthearted comment to lighten the mood would work better. It would maybe catch her off guard, calm her down a bit. Like mamaduck said, something like. "Gotta love kids huh? (smile) They can be such a trial sometimes. Need a hand with anything?"

What?







: I totally disagree with this approach. Then the woman will be likely to think that you *agree* with her plan to beat her children with a belt. I would not want to even risk sending an abusive parent that message. And what message will her children get? That yet another adult is *not* on their side.

For those posters who think we should say nothing or be friendly to the violent adult in these situations, would you think the same thing if it were a violent husband with his wife? As he's dragging her home, would you say to him, "Wives can be so difficult, can't they? I really sympathize with your plight." ???









ThreeBeans, you've hit the nail on the head! Thank you for your refreshing posts.


----------



## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

In many states spanking with an object is illegal.


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
For those posters who think we should say nothing or be friendly to the violent adult in these situations, would you think the same thing if it were a violent husband with his wife? As he's dragging her home, would you say to him, "Wives can be so difficult, can't they? I really sympathize with your plight." ???









No, then you call the police.

In the OP's case, there *wasn't* any abuse.


----------



## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
What would you do if you saw a man hitting a woman with a belt/heard him threaten her with a belt?

If you are afraid for your own safety to intervene, call the police.

Maybe you're right, maybe they'll laugh at you.

But do you know how change happens? People SPEAK UP! They say, "THIS IS WRONG, THIS IS ABUSE, THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!"

And if the message is heard OFTEN enough, eventually people come together and do something about it. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE, if in my children's life time this country (USA) banned hitting same as Sweden. But it's not going to happen if we go home quietly tsking to ourselves. It's going to happen when people are brave enough to stand up and say, 'CHILDREN ARE PEOPLE, TOO" ! :

This needs to be repeated.







Very, very true!

We have a voice. We need to use it.

And, as a child who lived in a very violent and abusive home as a child I will say that it is so, so important to speak up! To let the child(ren) know that hitting is WRONG.


----------



## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

If one should call the police for what one heard someone else _threaten_ to do, would someone else be right to call the police based on one incidence of what they PERCEIVE to be 'wrong'? In that case, someone could call the cops if they heard a parent tell their child that they're not getting a snack because what if they starve them or don't give them food when they get home? It's just ridiculous, you can't be all Minority Report and convict people of crimes that they haven't even commited, even if you strongly suspect that they might. It's just the way our society works.


----------



## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

It's horrible - but some parents do just threaten, so it's really hard to say. My dad would get out the belt and pop it to make a loud noise - he never ever hit me with a belt. (You know sometimes I think about things my dad did, and it just strikes me that he was a really stupid and ineffective parent - how could my mom stand it? He was an incredibly loving and doting father, and yet the best he could come up with for discipline was empty threats? But anyway...)

Anyway, my general tactic is to give an exaggerated dirty look and if I'm really brave say something loudly to the person next to me like "Can you *believe* in this day and age someone would think about using a belt? I'd be too afraid CPS would be on my doorstep." But I can't do direct confrontation - not even to butt in and offer help.


----------



## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

This is a little different, and maybe I'm a chicken s*** for the way I handled it, but I'm just starting to speak out myself when witnessing these situations. We were in Walfart parking lot yesterday, dh ran in to get something and the kids and I were sitting in the car. A car pulled in the lane in front of us and parked two lanes across (make sense?), but I could clearly see them as they unloaded their kids, SCREAMING at them (about 5 yrs. old and 2 yrs.). The 2 yr. old throwing a fit for who knows what. There were two parents (mom & dad) that were totally "mistreating" (yes, abuse, but not yet physical). They *slammed* her into the cart, all along screaming at her, nose to nose. She was covering her face, the 5 yr. old covering her ears.







The 2 yr. old stood up again and they forcefully sat her down again, one holding her legs and the other pushing down on her shoulders!! GOD FORBID YOU CARRY HER or hold her!!!! I'm witnessing all this and so are my kids, but they can't see me...they don't know someone is watching.

My windows were down. I laid on the horn. They stopped and looked around. Turned to the child and said, "Sit down, _______!" I didn't let off the horn while I yelled out the window, "KNOCK IT OFF! SHE'S A BABY!" They were looking and looking and I think the glare of the sun off the windshield made it so they couldn't see where it was coming from!! Not that I was afraid, but I think it almost had more affect that they didn't know who was watching them, they didn't get defensive or more angry. They finally just started walking in the store and the baby calmed down (not picked up, though).

I think people in this situation (I know...I have horrible anger issues, too) just need to step back and realize what they're doing. What it looks like. What they would see if they could step outside of themselves and see from the child's perspective. The laying on of the horn caused them to startle and *hopefully* catch themselves in a horrible moment. When I screamed out the window, they realized it wasn't just a "horn gone wrong", someone was actually witnessing this and it looked very bad. Sometimes a 3 second distraction can be enough to ward off an over-reaction, a split-second off-the-handle anger management issue.

HOWEVER - - I don't have much hope for this family. Like I said, both parents were involved. It wasn't a mom having a bad day with no help. This was both parents participating in the abuse and intimidation. The way the 5 yr. old covered her ears told me that this happens all too often.


----------



## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

I have often wondered when I have been in this type of situation about how to handle it without fueling the mama's anger and risking her taking it out on the kids...I worry about things escalating and putting myself in a bad situation. I am working on a business card size hand out that I can just give with a smile and walk away. I was trying to figure out how to make this smaller... http://www.nospank.net/nospanking.pdf

A mama that is at the end of her rope probably won't be as receptive to words from a stranger, but something that she can read later when she has calmed down might be more effective.


----------



## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

I live in AL too. I can attest that corporal punishment is encouraged from many "experts" (social services, schools, etc) and is still used in many school systems in the state. A belt is considered proper punishment for misdeeds here. Churches encourage it, MOPS encourages it, schools, social workers, etc. You can't threaten to write down a license number for the police. They have done nothing wrong by threatening and even if they follow through, they still have done nothing illegal in the eyes of the law here.

I wish we could find ways to let the children know what they are experiencing is wrong. But, like a pp mentioned, you may only make the punishment worse for the child because if the parent wasn't already mad, they will be after a confrontation with you.

A friend's wife was turned in to CPS for abuse on her son including bruises near the buttocks on the low back. The CPS worker applauded her for having the courage to discipline her son as so many need now days and don't get. I was floored.

I would love ideas of what we can do besides walk away crying and showing by example. Most around me feel I am overly permissive and get walked all over despite in the next breath they compliment me on how well behaved and polite my girls are. If my children live up to their expectations, how can my parenting be so wrong?


----------



## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Soybeansmam...that is great. It would probably work well as a poster that , you know, somehow got hung up in random places. this way the seed is planted and you don't have to actually confront someone. They could be hung in parks and on bulletin boards; all sorts of places.


----------



## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

I do have it posted in my house and have left it in places like park bathrooms and my peds office bathroom, etc... It would be nice to have a wallet size to hand out though.


----------



## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
I am working on a business card size hand out that I can just give with a smile and walk away. I was trying to figure out how to make this smaller... http://www.nospank.net/nospanking.pdf

A mama that is at the end of her rope probably won't be as receptive to words from a stranger, but something that she can read later when she has calmed down might be more effective.

That's an awesome idea, soybeansmama!


----------



## silver_bird123456 (Apr 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
If one should call the police for what one heard someone else _threaten_ to do, would someone else be right to call the police based on one incidence of what they PERCEIVE to be 'wrong'? In that case, someone could call the cops if they heard a parent tell their child that they're not getting a snack because what if they starve them or don't give them food when they get home? It's just ridiculous, you can't be all Minority Report and convict people of crimes that they haven't even commited, even if you strongly suspect that they might. It's just the way our society works.

Yes but attempted murder, intimidation, stalking and racktetering are all crimes.

If someone says to a shop keeper give me all the money in the till or I shoot it's still a crime even if he never shoots them.

Hitting with a belt is definitly crminal and abuse in Britain but I'm sorry I have no idea for Alabama.

Someone threatening would be unlikely to be punished becuase of difficulty in getting evidece but if it was constant and fightening to the child it would count as emotional abuse.


----------

