# Dad in the Ladies room



## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

I would like a little guidance from the ladies on this issue. I'm a stay at home Dad. I have 2 Daughters, 3 yrs old and 1 3/4 yrs. My 3 yr old is pretty much potty trained. Doing very well. So now I come into the issue of taking her to public restrooms to potty. As infants I took the girls in the guys room with me and used the changing table, (unless it didn't have one and I was forced to use the women's room changing table.... different subject) anyway I refuse to put her on the pot in the men's room for many reasons especially now with a toddler looking to get into stuff. So I guess I just want to get a feel for proper ediquette for a dad in the ladies room. The last thing I want to do is scare some poor lady while in, lets face it, a vulnerable position.

My first instinct is to be vocal, (to announce my presence) be polite and focused on the task at hand.

Thanks for your advice.


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

I would either use a family restroom (more and more places are springing them up) or take her to the men's room. Women are not going to be fond of you using the ladies room.... it would be like me taking my son into the men's room. I feel for your situation though!


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## MamaPam (Oct 8, 2005)

I understand the delima but I know I would probably be disturbed if I saw a man in the ladies restroom. Hmmm definately explain why you are there....use the family restrooms if you can...sometimes stores have individual restroom like the pottery barn kids stores where encountering other women wouldn't be an issue. As she gets a little bigger you could probably stand at the door of the ladies restroom and let her go in by herself. Good luck in your adventures as a stay at home parent.

Pam


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## KC in KS (Feb 24, 2005)

Probably most practical if the store's not hugely crowded, but just ask an employee of the appropriate gender to clear the restroom and stand guard outside to ask people to wait a minute. You could use either restroom that way, depending on what employee is handy.

Really, it only takes a couple of minutes. I'd think both employees and customers would be willing to cooperate for that long. And if you get a nasty look or comment, so what? You're doing what's best for your little girl!


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I saw a mom pull a potty seat (the sort that goes over the regular toilet) out of a canvas bag that was attached to her diaper bag the other day. I thought that was a great idea -- child is more comfortable with the familiar, and is less likely to touch the nasty toilet. I don't know how warm it is where you are, but many people keep a potty chair in their car for these situations. Otherwise I'd definitely get an employee to clear & stand guard -- what if someone cried sexual harrassment when you walked in?! Granted it would probably be cleared up eventually, but if you were arrested on the spot & your children separated from you.... I can't imagine how scary that would be!


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## bratmobile (Jun 30, 2004)

Can I ask what the big differences are between the ladies toilet and the men's? Are men's rooms much nastier? I feel like _all_ public toilets are usually pretty dang gross and potty chairs are great things to have anyways since you can't always get to a bathroom in time or its occupied, or its nasty, etc.

I think most women would not have a positive reaction to a man in a women's bathroom. I wouldn't advise trying it unless its absolutely necessary, like the men's is totally occupied or it is unacceptably filthy. In which case, I agree with the PPs and would look for an employee for help. By then your DD may have had an accident though! And that sucks about the lack of changing tables in men's rooms as well







That is not acceptable IMO.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

The public men's room for the most part is the definition of NASTY. Most should be cleaned with a flame thrower.

My basic problem is while I have one on the toilet I have a toddler to deal with. Ladies room = no urinals.
If she is in her stroller that keeps her from reaching in urinals, (GAG) but I cant bring a 2 kid stroller in a stall. If I need to leave her in the stroller I feel MUCH safer with women, (maternal instinct and all) around my daughter.

I'm totally on board with the portable seat for her. And I always use the Family Restrooms when available.

I am really appreciating the input. Thank you.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

As an ex-housekeeper, i can say Yes! There is definitely a difference between restrooms! The men's restroom is consistently nasty. i swear. Takes about 5 minutes after a thorough cleaning to get that way, too.
My friend has something like this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...=baby&n=542434 which i think is genius.

I would probably recruit an employee and explain the situation.

With DS (who is adamant about using the men's room) I stand at the door and wait for him, one foot propped in the door. I make him keep talking to me (he can get in less trouble this way.)


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Could you put the little one in a sling on your back for these few minutes? A mei tai, or even a conventional sling (which would be smaller & fit well in a bag when not in use). I keep a New Native in my bag for this reason -- it folds up smaller than any other sling I've seen.


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## bratmobile (Jun 30, 2004)

Well, I guess I can only imagine. I don't get to see a lot of men's bathrooms so I just had to ask.







Yeah, I can't imagine trying to get a double stroller into a bathroom stall, or a single stroller! I suppose you have to go for the large stalls for that to work. Do you end up taking them both out of the strollers then? I suppose that's what I'd try, holding or slinging the younger one while helping the other.

Depending on where you are you could always ask if there's a family or even an employee restroom. I'd guess that if you found a sympathetic person they'd understand.


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

I think i would be bothered by a man in the ladies room BUT Your dd does have a right to be there and if she were mine I think i would prefer her in the girls room.
I wouldnt want her to see strange men standing around peeing.
I like the family rooms.


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

You can get a potty seat that folds up into 4ths - the kind that you put on the big potty. Invest in a travel pack of disinfecting wipes. Most women of an older generation are never going to be okay with men in the ladies room. I would try to navigate the men's room when there is no individual room or family room.


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moose*
My basic problem is while I have one on the toilet I have a toddler to deal with.

I always use the hadicap toilet if I have both kids with me. The toilet is high but plenty of room for the stroller to be right in there with us.


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## Jenelle (Mar 12, 2004)

My best advice: _Just stay home._









Seriously, though, I just wanted to agree that going in the women's restroom would not be the best choice.

If you have room, I would keep a potty seat in the vehicle, and have her try before you go in a store if you know it's been awhile. You can clean up the mess when you get home.

You could also carry a travel-size pack of antibacterial wipes in case of emergencies, to clean the toilet in the men's room wherever it will touch your daughter. And just leave the other daughter strapped in the stroller, and leave your door open (or cracked) so you can see her.

Best of luck! I'm sure this is just the beginning of your "fathering girls" worries.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

The large handicap stalls are awesome. This is also where the usually put the baby changing station. I tell you it's getting better but when there is no changing station in the men's room it really twirks me off.

I just want my daughter to feel comfortable and safe. Main concern. I have noticed that when I'm out and about with my two queens, (Victoria and Elizabeth) 99% of the women around me are very helpful and understanding, (THANK YOU). I want to do anything I can to minimize the discomfort this may cause.

You are all very helpfull, Thank you.


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

I just wanted to add that I personally would not be freaked out if a man came into the women's washroom with 2 little girls. I mean, it's not like women are going to be standing in a public washroom, getting undressed (at least not in any public washroom that I've EVER seen, lol.) Where as in a man's washroom, you have to deal with the uncomfortable situation of the little girls questioning the very visible and open urinals, which may or may not be in use.  Not to mention the mess (I had no idea that a man's washroom would be grosser than a woman's, lol).

Most places we go have a family washroom, or at least a seperate handicap washroom that DH can sneak the mammoth double jogger into.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

To describe the conditions of most men’s rooms would disgusting at best so I’m not going there. Trust me.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

It really ticks me off that the men's rooms do not have changing stations. Why is that acceptable? I have been tempted many a time to slap a discrimination lawsuit on certain national chains that SHOULD know better. What exactly is a man suppose to do in a place like a restaurant? It is not like they can change baby in the eating area? Men's bathroom floor? I think not.


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

It would not bother me see a father bringing his daughter(s) to the ladies room if there is no family restroom around as long as it was announced. I have ventured into the mens room a few times with my son (soon to be 8) if he was being particularly adamant about not going into the ladies room. And, men's rooms are the nastiest thing ever.

My dh would not take our dd anywhere without me when she was potty training because he did not want to have to take her into the mens room. I feel your pain.


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

I would have no problem with a man coming into a women's restroom to help his daughter. I might get a little stage fright though! I've had to use the men's restroom before-I was pregnant, almost ready to pee my pants and the women's restroom was closed. The men weren't even surprised as I breezed by them and headed for a stall!


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## konamama (Jun 1, 2004)

I can't see any problem with a father taking his 2dds into a ladies room, it wouldn't bug me one bit and 3 is too young to go in by herself.
if you feel the need to ask an employee so be it, but I feel that opening the door and announcing is enough - it would be for me... just my opinion


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## MsChatsAlot (Sep 8, 2005)

I would have no problem with a man & his daughters in the restroom. All the stalls are closed anyway. Now, a man with no kids.....I'd freak

I think you've had some great suggestions. You could also ask another mom or lady to go in if it's all clear and then stand outside for a minute.

I think most women/moms (a little biased here) are actually pretty decent and willing to help out.

I too have a HUGE pet peeve with places that are not more accomodating for young kids & dads. It is definitely getting better with more family washrooms and change rooms. Takes time though.

And I agree that mens' washrooms are WAY too nasty to even discuss.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I would have NO problem with a man in a women's bathroom, if he was there for the purpose of helping his girls, and if he was vocal about why he was in there. However I'm sure there are a lot of women who be really upset by it. I like the idea of getting an employee to help, to stand guard. After all, men *do* go in the women's restroom -- to clean. They just put up a sign or prop open the door with a bucket to make clear they're in there. I don't see how this is any different.

And yes, men's restrooms are _awful_. I used to clean restrooms, so trust me on this one.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

"You could also ask another mom or lady to go in if it's all clear and then stand outside for a minute."

I like the idea of an "all clear/warning lady". I will use this when possible.

Everyone is being very helpful. Thank you.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I can see where some women might get freaked out by a man coming into the woman's bathroom. Personally, I think it would be self-evident why he was there if he had two small girls in tow, though. I'd much rather my daughter go into a woman's bathroom with her dad than a men's bathroom -- I don't have a problem with family nudity, but as she gets older, she just doesn't need to see strange men's genitals, and men's bathrooms don't give the privacy that women's bathrooms do. (I know a lot of men who wouldn't be comfortable with a little girl they don't know coming into the bathroom while they were there either.) Women's bathrooms have stalls, so I don't see a problem with a man being in there with his daughters -- it's not like you're going to see anything.

Quite frankly, I find it really annoying that most men's bathrooms don't have changing tables, too. DH has no problem offering to change dd's diapers, and it's frustrating when we're out and he tries to take a turn on diaper duty and can't find anywhere to do it. What kind of message does that send? Only women should change diapers? I think it's awesome that he volunteers and does it out in public where other guys will see him "stepping up" -- or could, if he could find a changing table in a men's room.


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## MotherWhimsey (Mar 21, 2005)

I'd like to throw a new opinion in here. I cover head to toe, and if I need to readjust or to take off my scarf or something to fix it, I go to the womens room. I can take my scarf off in front of women, so if I want to readjust it, I have to be where there are only women. I would be absolutely mortified, horrified, and feel encroached upon if a man were to come into the womens room when I was not covered. It would be a breach of my morals. To me it would be like you walking into a womens dressing room and opening the curtains. I know that is not the common opinion here, but it's just something to think about. I've never heard of any men coming into the womens rooms, but now that I have I feel that I need to be more modest and readjust in the stall without the mirror. Oh and I know that in the state where I live, a man in the womens room (or vice versa) is a ticketable offense.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Personally, I think as long as you announce you're coming in and why, it's fine. I had to do a similar thing with a little boy I used to watch.

He was very adamant that he didn't want to go in the ladies room and he was too young to go in alone, so I yelled in the men's room that I needed to come in with a preschooler and did anyone have an objection... waited for a minute and then walked in.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

I want to thank everyone for the help. I really wanted to get a good feel for how women think and feel about this. Please keep the comments coming and any suggestions on travel potty seats would be greatly appreciated as well.


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## akkimmie (Nov 2, 2005)

I would have no issue with a dad and his babes in the bathroom. Although it would be wise to announce your reason for being present. Maybe have another woman or employee go in and ask 1st so those that would be uncomfortable can leave. I feel for your situation, remember you will probably never see any of those women again. If you offend someone explain you situation and know you are doing the best for your child. So great that you consider this subject GOOD FOR YOU


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

well I dont have a problem with it but I live in Germany where men clean the bathrooms and don't leave when you have to go. I think its great what you are doing. I would probably just make a announcement before you go in.


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## bjorker (Jul 25, 2005)

I see you are from the same area as me, Moose







That helps me imagine the situation a little better. Personally, it wouldn't really bother me IF you were already in the women's bathroom by the time I got there, and I could tell. If you just came in and I was already in there... that'd be a little weird. Still, a father with two girls in the ladies bathroom... eh. Still wouldn't bother ME much, but I'm sure it would definately bother others. I'd start combining some of these ideas. Leave the stroller out of the bathroom if you can, bring in one of those folding potty-covers and hold the smaller daughter in your arms, maybe? Or sling her. If you can find a family bathroom, or a single-occupant bathroom, that'd really be ideal. I mean, all you have to do is find a Starbucks (hey, it's Seattle!) and bingo. Then again those newly-potty-learned bladders don't really last long enough to be searching all over, do they... hmm...

Coming from someone who has worked plenty of retail... if a guy with two little girls came up to me and asked for some help clearing/standing guard of the restroom, I'd be more than happy to do so. Maybe just check out the bathroom beforehand and see what the deal is.

btw, I totally hear you about bathrooms not having changing tables. I've found enough woman's bathrooms that don't, but when the women's does and the men's _doesn't_, that irritates me to no end. There have been several times when we were out and dp emerged from the bathroom right after taking dd in for a change b/c there was no changing table. I took her into the women's and there was one. I can't stand gender difference crap.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

The use of the ladies room for me as seen as the last option. More and More places are putting in family restrooms and becoming more family friendly.

However.... I have given more than a few place a piece of my mind about the fact there was no changing table in the mens room and had to use the one in the ladies room, which 100% of the time was met with understanding and support from the ladies present and then anger at the management.

When my girls were smaller It was easier to manage them. Even with all the gear, one in a carrier, one walking, backpack, (I'm 6,1 250lbs) I looked alot like a sherpa.







But now that they are bigger they have more gear and wont just stay where you put them.







:

Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming.

Moose Dad







: to Victoria 9/02







and Elizabeth 5/04


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Well, I've never seen a man in the ladies room (except to clean) but if I saw a Dad in the ladies room with his girls I wouldn't think twice about it. It's pretty obvious why you are there, and need to be there, imo.

There are stalls with doors in ladies rooms, which imo, provide plenty of privacy. I know exactly what you mean about men's rooms, my dh still makes me take ds into the ladies' room when we are all out together because the men's room because ds still likes to sit to pee and the toilets in the men's room are usually disgusting.

It's a tough situation when potty training, you don't have alot of time to think about what to do. Good for you for being so considerate of your dd's (and others) feelings!


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

Many of us _mothers with kids_would not necessarily be freaked out by a man with kids in the women's room, but I think a lot other people would - childless women, old ladies, Muslim women, etc.....

I would definitely use it as a last resort.


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## carla72 (Aug 6, 2005)

personally I would have no problem if a dad opened the door to the ladies room and said something like dad bringing in daughters hope thats ok or whatever to announce himself. I totally feel for your situation and I wouldn't take issue with it. A man without a dd thats another story lol. I think it is horrible that there aren't family washrooms and changetables everywhere. I don't think a young child of either sex should be snet in alone and thats what happens when they are with the opposite sex parent. (not all families)


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

I would like to put in a vote for the babywearing option.

Plenty of men wear their babies.

now nak

while i can't speak from experience, many parents of 2 or more small children survive by wearing one while they tend to the other.

get yourself a good mei tai. either a plain solid colored one, or im


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

I would like to put in a vote for the babywearing option.

Plenty of men wear their babies.

now nak

while i can't speak from experience, many parents of 2 or more small children survive by wearing one while they tend to the other.

get yourself a good mei tai. either a plain solid colored one, or i have even seen them sold in camouflage colors and punk styles--very masculine. your 1 year old will not be too large for one yet...as a matter of fact, I doubt seriously that your 3 year old is even too large for one.

I can see a mei tai as being very useful to you should worse come to worse, and you find yourself in the men's bathroom with your 3 year old, and in keeping your little tiny tot out of places where she should not be







while you tend to your older darling.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

http://www.babyhawk.com/gallery.cfm

a picture including some very masculine men wearing their babies...

can you imagine how much easier it would be to keep your 1 year old out of trouble by strapping her to your back while you help your 3 year old to the toilet?


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

The front baby wear option is not a good possiblity for me. My youngest is almost 2 and is 30" tall. However maybe the framed backpack style would work... that would allow me to consolidate the gear and the not so tiny one into one place securely.

You Ladies rock!







this is really helping me. Thank you.


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

I agree with everyone who said to use an employee/friendly woman to announce your presence and/or clear the room. Just wanted to say that I would be a LOT more concerned to see a small child alone in the restroom by herself than to see a dad in the ladies room helping that child out.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Moose, daddy-o, I googled a baby backpack carrier. In all honesty, I am having a difficult time trying to figure out how it is supposed to help you consolidate gear. Wow! It is ever bulky!









Mei Tai's are much less expensive that baby backpack carriers.
You can wear your little one in a mei tai, or Asian Baby carrier till she is nigh on 5 years old, on your back too. I don't think she is going to be too large for one now at age 2. I tried to collect some pictures of older toddlers being worn in mei tais.

http://www.edenbabycarrier.com/images/Nov05061.JPG
This little girl is 4 1/2 years old

http://www.mammasmilk.com/pages/back...hp?showprod=37
That one is called an ergo...

http://www.kozycarrier.homestead.com/instructions.html
(if you scroll through that page, you will see different pictures of them holding their toddler.)

http://www.babyspaceslings.com/
another toddler

I will tell you why I'm not a big fan of baby backpack carriers and bjorns...they put a lot of pressure on the baby's crotch area, which is not good for her hips. I spoke with other parents who have used them, and they said that they are not very comfortable on the adult's back, as well. It is better for babie's hips and back if you use a carrier that spreads the weight out over the buttocks and across the backs of the thighs rather than having baby with all that point pressure on the crotch, kwim?

And do you carry around a diaper bag? All you have to do is fold your mei tai/ergo/soft baby carrier up and stick it in your bag. You can't get any simpler than that...

Just wanted to point a few things out to ya! No hard feelings.









And there are a lot of different brands to choose from, too.
Just google "Asian baby carrier" or "mei tai", and you will see many different brand names to look into.


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## Boobiemama (Oct 2, 2002)

I'm wondering what my hubby would do if my daughter needed to pee while at the gym swimming. Every weekend he takes them swimming at the gym, I have stayed home since having our new baby.
I dont think it would be appropriate for her to be in the mens locker room with naked men in there. She is 4 and needs help wiping after #2, so if it was for that, she couldnt go alone.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

Hey Gabysmom,

I carry all your basic baby and toddler gear. Water, cups, snacks, wipes, diapers, change of clothes, ect. times 2. Plus I carry my EMT infant trama kit. That all fits rather nicely in a normal backpack size EMT kit bag. I love it because of the many compartments that keep everything organized and in its place for easy access.

I appreciate all the help and advice.


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

I personally would have no problem with a man in the women's room helping his female children.


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## Porphy (Apr 15, 2004)

I would be totally understanding if a man with a little girl (or two!) came in to help them use a public ladies room. As long as he was polite, I would think he was awesome for going through everything he has to go through to help them out! I mean all the stalls in the ladies rooms I've been in close and lock so there is still privacy. If a lady feels offened I would hope she would take it out on the mall staff and not the guy (ie request a family room!).


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I would be very very upset with a man in the ladies room (one with stalls. not a single private bathroom. i consider those fair game). I am already hesitant to use public restrooms because people can see through the cracks in the door etc. I would be horribly upset to walk out and find a man there or hear his voive through the wall. it would be enough to send me into a panic attack.

i wouldjust know where you are going and make sure there is an appropriate bathroom (either a family bathroom or the kind that is private) or have an employe check things out and make appropriate accomodations (alerting women that there was a man in there, making sure women were out before he went in etc). i mean I wouldn't be upset if a man came out of the bathroom. just if he came in while I was in there. I expect only women in there and deserve the option of weather or not i am going to doing such personal things in the presence of a man.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

I understand your feelings. Using the public restrooms can be an uncomfortable situation some times.
However I have to say that I feel that my daughters mental state and physical safety out weigh a grown adults temporary discomfort. My plan has always been that this is last resort situation but I outright refuse to plan the next 5-6 years on the availability of a family bathroom or the help of others.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I would have no problem seeing a man with his daughters in the women's room. DD seems likely to start potty-training soon and we have been wondering ourselves, since DH does take her out on his own sometimes. He has been so annoyed by the lack of diaper changing stations in men's rooms, too.

I think I am going to suggest the female employee alert or the "announcement" option ("Dad and daughters coming through") to him.

I also wanted to mention that not all toddlers are going to take to a back or front carrier at this age if they are not longer used to them. My kid would flip if I slung her at this point--she loved it as a baby but would not tolerate it, period, once she could walk.


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## mshollyk (Sep 24, 2002)

sorry to be a little OT...but just so you know, there are some of us who don't neatly fit into one of the gender categories...and you might see us in the bathroom sometime. it would be painful for me to realize that my appearance had caused someone to have a panic attack. what do you suggest that people like me do to prevent you from being uncomfortable?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
I would be very very upset with a man in the ladies room (one with stalls. not a single private bathroom. i consider those fair game). I am already hesitant to use public restrooms because people can see through the cracks in the door etc. I would be horribly upset to walk out and find a man there or hear his voive through the wall. it would be enough to send me into a panic attack.

i mean I wouldn't be upset if a man came out of the bathroom. just if he came in while I was in there. I expect only women in there and deserve the option of weather or not i am going to doing such personal things in the presence of a man.


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## Realrellim (Feb 1, 2006)

I don't have any real advice--the pps have pretty well covered it, but your situation reminded me of a time when I was small, probably about 4 years old. For some reason I was out shopping in the mall with my father (a _very_ rare occurence, and I needed to use the restroom. My dad kind of sighed, then partially wrapped his coat around me (presumably as a shield) and walked me into the men's restroom into a stall. And the whole time, I was saying "but Daddy, Mommy always takes me into the _girls_ restroom" very loudly.









I believe that is the only time my father has ever taken me to the restroom. Go figure.









Good luck!


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I am against sex-specific bathrooms, so I say do what you like.

But one thing that bothers me is, what if you had sons? Would you take them into the women's bathroom, or is it something about your girl-toddlers that makes it inappropriate for them to use men's room? I try not to treat children differently based on sex, personally.


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mshollyk*
sorry to be a little OT...but just so you know, there are some of us who don't neatly fit into one of the gender categories...and you might see us in the bathroom sometime. it would be painful for me to realize that my appearance had caused someone to have a panic attack. what do you suggest that people like me do to prevent you from being uncomfortable?

Great point. I once had a woman get freaked out and yell at me for being in a women's room because she thought I was a teenage boy.

hottmama's question about taking boys to the bathroom is interesting. My DS is only 2. Today he was out with DP (who is a man) and they went into the men's room and DS peed in a urinal for the first time (big excitment!!!!). I imagine if he had wanted to poop DP would have helped him sit on the toilet (we keep disposable wipes in the diaper bag for diaper changes out and about, and these come in handy for cleaning up other types of messes if need be).

When DS is with me, I plan to take him into the women's room with me for a good long time.

Interesting thread!


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## Bekka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWhimsey*
Oh and I know that in the state where I live, a man in the womens room (or vice versa) is a ticketable offense.

Interestingly, in the previous state that I lived in, New York State, the law stated that if a family member was required to help another family member in toileting (and the law said nothing about specifically handicapped individuals), they were permitted by law to be in the bathroom of the opposite sex while helping that family member. Obviously a family bathroom would be ideal in this situation, but there isn't always the ideal.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama*
But one thing that bothers me is, what if you had sons? Would you take them into the women's bathroom, or is it something about your girl-toddlers that makes it inappropriate for them to use men's room? I try not to treat children differently based on sex, personally.

This made me think.









I guess there two reasons. Number one reason is safety. I feel much safer with my girls in the company of women in an area out of public view.

On if I had boys. Boys/men have the advantage of being able to use the restroom without touching anything inside the restroom. The urinal allows for unzip, aim, fire, rezip, done. A lot of urinals are auto flush so you don't have to touch the handle. Wash up, good to go. With the toilet use of the protective cover and your foot to flush the toilet are the preferred methods if #2 is necessary.
Boys are going to need to learn men's room protocol so they can avoid getting the plague or something worse.







:

I've been in men's rooms that I wanted a shower and a new pair of shoes after using.







I have seen some women's rooms as an EMT that we so nice you could almost eat lunch in. Nice decor, plants, chairs. While the men's room, not 10 feet away is the black hole of Calcutta. Most builders and store owners know that women will not actively destroy the bathrooms so they make them nicer and they stay nicer. You would think that the guys could keep there room a little cleaner.

I would like to thank you all for your input once again. You have been very helpfull and understanding.


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## tahini17 (Jan 13, 2006)

I have absolutely no problemo with a guy helping his little girls use the potty! Personallly I feel that a little 3 year old girl's comfort, happiness, cleanliness, etc is much more important than any nominal discomfort I would feel by having a man in the restroom! People need to chill out, I mean we all go potty, is it really that big of a deal if a guy is in there?? I guess the older I get (and i'm only 24 so I'm not that old) the less I'm worried about that sort of thing. And I mean really, it's not like it's some guy who's in there by himself trying to peek through the cracks-- he's helping his child, and I know that with my 3 year old there isn't really a big window there between "i have to pee" and "i'm currently peeing," certainly not enough to let any store employee go and evactuate the bathroom!

So I would knock and call in so as not to give anyone a heart attack, but I personally would never ever ever put anyone's 2 minute discomfort in front of my child, so do what you gotta do and don't worry about us ladies, we'll get over it somehow







.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OakBerry*

There are stalls with doors in ladies rooms, which imo, provide plenty of privacy.

Just that they have an inch wide gap left and right.

I'm uncomfortable with the thought.

If the stalls are closed I don't care.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Moose said:


> The large handicap stalls are awesome. This is also where the usually put the baby changing station. I tell you it's getting better but when there is no changing station in the men's room it really twirks me off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

I can understand why someone would be upset with a man in there if he was by himself but if he were with two toddler girls? Come on. Clearly he is not in there perving. I, for one, would be happy to see not only a SAHD but one who cares enough about his dds to risk embarassing himself.

All of you who would be offended... would you be comfortable if you knew a lesbian was in the bathroom with you? What about someone transgendered?


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheena*

All of you who would be offended... would you be comfortable if you knew a lesbian was in the bathroom with you? What about someone transgendered?

Very good question.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I would use a single stroller for one child and go to the handicapped stall and push the whole gang into that stall. I bring Purell wipes instead of washing hands because sometimes the handwashing facilities make me wonder if it is worse to wash hands. I also use those wipes to clean off the seat before my dd sits on the toilet. I vote to ask everyone to leave the bathroom or use a special bathroom. I wouldn't just barge in there with two daughters.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I don't know why there would be an issue with you using the women's room, the women are in the stalls after all. I guess perhaps you could yell in that you are a man needing to take your daughter to the restroom and ask if anyone objects. I think if you were to ask first it would go over better than just going in. I agree that more places need family restrooms.

ETA my 7 year old son still uses the women's room with me, IMO he is too young to be left outside the bathrooms unattended or to use the mens room alone.


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## ImoKit (Jan 20, 2006)

I think that as a father you have decided that the momentary discomfort of a few adult women is of no importance compared to the safety of your dds and thats right. Adults can get over it and will forget about it in about 5 mins, 10mins at most. That against your girls being exposed to things little girls shouldn't see.
You should announce yourself and wait maybe a minute or so, in case there are women such as MotherWhimsey who need to adjust coverings. However after a few minutes warning then its fine, i wouldn't even feel it neccessary for a full scale evacuation of the toilets, if a little child needs the toilet, she needs the toilet. Anyone with a problem with this, should blame the management of the place for not making it easy/hygenic/possible to avoid the situation. It is neither the dad's nor the child's fault that they are in this situation and so they shouldn't be made to go through all sorts of time consuming measures to address the situation


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## LuvMyLittles (Jul 22, 2005)




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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Hey, Moose, are you my dh? LOL!







:


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## flitters (Sep 18, 2003)

i'm another mama that would welcome you to the ladies room for the comfort and safety of your girls. i actually remember going into the men's room with my father when i was... gosh... 4, maybe? it felt weird. not right. adults can cope. kids just get uneasy, especially if you are uncomfortable about it.

my dh is a SAHD too, and if we have a little girl one day, i'd prefer him in the women's room with her. the portable potty thing though is an awesome idea. we're definitely gonna do that for our son too.


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## rozzie'sma (Jul 6, 2005)

I would have no problem with a dad and his girls using the restroom. It's not like you can see anything in there. I would just knock, ask if anyone was in there, and then explain that dd had to pee. I think it is a great thing. When I was little my dad would take me on the road with him (he was a truck driver) and have the waitresses take me to the bathroom. He thought he was doing good, but imagine what mught have happened. Your welcome in my bathroom anytime. And I second or third the Mei Tei, babyhawk has some cool more masculine prints.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I would have a problem with you coming in the ladies room. Every complaint you have made about men's rooms could be made by fathers with young boys as well. Indeed, my husband has been taking our sons in men's rooms since they were infants and has never complained about the conditions. So if it works for a father with boys, I think it should work for a father with girls. And if you encounter a restroom that is really THAT nasty, then you should be complaining to management and insisting that the room be cleaned. NOT invading the ladies room.


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

clean or dirty, i would much rather my husband take my dd in the ladies room.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

DS is five and DH refuses to take him to the bathroom if he has to poo. Some places (gas stations, fast food places and the like) DH refuses to take DS to pee. Mens bathrooms are much, much worse than womens bathrooms. DH says that even places where most of the bathroom is clean, some idiot feels like he has to spray all over the toilet seat when he pees, or even worse for #2. There are even places DH will not go himself, much less let our DC use.

I would not feel comfortable with DH taking DD to the men's bathroom based on his observations alone, much less the whole open urinal issue. I would not have a problem finding a dad and his daughters in the bathroom, and would certainly appreciate the warning if I was in there already. Not because of any hangups I have, but that it would simply be courteous.









I agree with pp's about the time from "I have to pee" to the puddle on the floor being very short. DS is five and this window is STILL small. We love the family bathrooms, and will often turn single bathrooms labeled as one or the other into a family bathroom when we are all out together. Just easier, imo, when the whole family has to go.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WickidaWitch*
clean or dirty, i would much rather my husband take my dd in the ladies room.

ITA. There are other reasons I don't want my kids in the men's room not the least of which is that men urinate publicly at urinals. I don't particularly relish the chance that my toddler girl will see a strange man urinate.


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

I have a toddler and a crawler, and today at the grocery store I had to put the crawler on the floor, while I held dd over the toilet to pee. Then while I took care of the crawler's hands at the sink, the toddler got into all sorts of things, and busied herself crawling under the stall doors.
I so cannot imagine having to contend with these two in a men's bathroom. uke The women's room is bad enough.

I would completely understand if a man used the women's room if he had kids with him. And the fact that women's stalls all have doors, it's not like you're even really violating anyone's privacy.

I say use the women's room and anyone and don't even worry about the people who don't understand.


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## sw1ssm1ss (Mar 26, 2005)

My dd is two and has just started potty-learning, so we haven't really had to deal with these issues yet. But I think if Moose is still reading this thread, there is a real dilemma here. Some posters are saying he should absolutely not be in the women's room--it could cause a panic attack for one or a religious crisis for another. Other posters are saying his daughters should absolutely not be in the men's room--it could scar them or put them in danger.

Therefore, I think an *excellent* idea is to have a potty for the car. When I heard friends with older kids talking about this before I had kids, I thought, eeewwww. But now I think it offers a real solution. If you don't have a mini-van or SUV, you can get some type of window coverings for her privacy.

Moose, I totally sympathize with your situation and I think you're a great dad trying to do his best by his daughters. But I don't think it's right to ignore the very real, very strong feelings of some of the posters here, just because other posters would be fine with you walking into the ladies' room.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck*
I would have a problem with you coming in the ladies room. Every complaint you have made about men's rooms could be made by fathers with young boys as well. Indeed, my husband has been taking our sons in men's rooms since they were infants and has never complained about the conditions. So if it works for a father with boys, I think it should work for a father with girls. And if you encounter a restroom that is really THAT nasty, then you should be complaining to management and insisting that the room be cleaned. NOT invading the ladies room.

The difference is that a man/boy can effectively use the bathroom with out touching a single surface and WILL need the practice of not doing so. Not so with the ladies......

Thanks everyone for all the advice and support. So far from the start date of this tread I have only had to use the womens room 2 times. Both times the few women I incountered were not put out in any way and in fact were helpfull.


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## ladybugchild77 (Jun 18, 2004)

I think you have gotten some great advice. I just wanted to say go for it!







And as a former EMT myself, I can definitely concur with the state of men's restrooms vs women's...ugh...







:


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## boodafli (May 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VBMama*
I agree with everyone who said to use an employee/friendly woman to announce your presence and/or clear the room. Just wanted to say that I would be a LOT more concerned to see a small child alone in the restroom by herself than to see a dad in the ladies room helping that child out.









:


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## CYL (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm not a mum (yet!), but I wouldn't have a problem with a man taking his daughter into the ladies room. My father used to take me in when I was little, my mother used to take my brother in when he was little.

I don't remember ever seeing any family bathrooms here in the UK, and I've never seen any woman complain about a father taking his little girls into the ladies.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moose*
Thanks everyone for all the advice and support. So far from the start date of this tread I have only had to use the womens room 2 times. Both times the few women I incountered were not put out in any way and in fact were helpfull.

















I didn't get to chime in on the original thread, but I'm glad that it's working out for you...I am of the "announce your intent, wait a minute, then enter" ilk, or asking a woman to clear the way for you, but I would in NO way be uncomfortable seeing a dad with 2 young girls entering, or already in the ladies' room. In fact, I'd probably







him a little for being an attentive and caring daddy. I'm glad that the couple times you've had to make the decision, it has been understood and you've encountered helpful women.

I have been in a men's room once in my life, and I had to hold my breath the whole time while DH stood guard at the door for me; I felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards........ uke


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## arabian cowboy (May 16, 2006)

Dad here. I'd not go into the ladies room myself, out of my own comfort level. I would be too worried about running into a woman naked or worse, on the pot. I'd be so ashamed for embarressing her.

I think some of the suggestions on here have been wonderful. I haven't yet had to think about this issue. My twins are only 14 months old. I'll have the fun of taking two in the next year or so b/c my wife and I just separated.

I don't like not having changing tables in our bathrooms. I have gotten to he point that I don't bother checking men's rrooms for tables. I just take the child to the car and do it on the seat.


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## arabian cowboy (May 16, 2006)

Also wanted to add that mens rooms are filthy. Men are gross. I am a man. Men are just .... gross.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Are there not change tables in the me's room where you are ac?

Here, almost all the men's rooms have change tables or there is a unisex family bathroom, which is a good thing because my partner does almost all the diaper changes.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:

I would be too worried about running into a woman naked
LOL! Don't worry, we're not usually naked in women's rooms, lol.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Since this thread aired the first time I have been encouraging dh to use the women's room with dd when the men's is too gross. I clean bathrooms at the end of my shift as a bartender and there is no comparison between the men's and women's. Men pee on everything including the walls and floor. There is almost always crap on something strange like in the sink. The stench alone is almost enough to knock you over. Then I go into the women's room and it is like it has not been used all day.

In all honesty, even if I had a boy rather than a girl, I would still not want a newly trained toddler or baby that needed to be changed in the men's room. It is simply too nasty. Most restrooms up here are individual rooms so using the women's is not really going to result in a man in with women. And NONE of the men's rooms have changing stations here. None. If dh is out alone with dd and the men's room is too gross AND the women's in communal, I have asked him to either find a bush or get an employee to clear the women's room. I mean techinically dd is a female so she does have a right to be in the women's room even if it means being accompanied by a male.

I am curious if anyone knows.....how do people handle adults that need bathroom assistance? Like if I was taking care of a disabled man who needed to use the restroom while we were out. Which room should be used?


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

It would not bother me at all to see a man in a ladies restroom with his daughters. Actually, it wouldn't even bother me to see a man without children in a ladies restroom if it was clear that he was in there solely for the purpose of using the restroom. I know women that will use the men's room if the ladies room is busy or out of toilet paper.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

I have never thought of dh taking dd into the women's washroom. Growing up, if my Dad had me, and I needed to go, we went to the boys' room. But I like, the idea, it makes sense. It would be weird the first time it happened to me, especially if I'd never seen this thread. But, I agree that your dds' safety, health, and comfort are more important than mine.
And I hate when dh comes back right away from changing dd, to tell me the men's room has no changing table.
Rencently at dd1's gymnastic class, I was heading into the bathroom (stall-style) to go and a father I know from class was coming out with his two girls (my dd plays with them in class, and this is a family we see on an almost- weekly basis). It's not a girl or boy bathroom, though. There's just one bathroom for everyone to use (the class is in an old school converted to community centre, there's probably another bathroom nearby, but this one is no longer marked). Encountering the Dad in a bathroom like this was strange to me, and his face seemed almost apologetic for being there, but I had no problem with it. It got me thinking about public bathrooms and separate rooms for gender. We all have this basic need, and I'm pretty sure we adults understand the difference in anatomy. It seems like a hangup that is not based on anything real, to me.


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## ChristineIndy (Jan 3, 2006)

Childless woman piping up, here (man, I hope that status changes soon,







)

Would I be uncomfortable with you in the bathroom? Yep. And that's MY problem. I'd want you to bring your kids in anyway. Though it would make me uncomfortable on a personal level, I'd rather have to deal with that discomfort than think of you doing less-than-best by your kids. Does that make sense?

The "knock and announce" is all important. If someone would truly be horrified (rather than just uncomfortable, like me,) or has a religious/cultural situation or ojection (adjustment of a hijab was mentioned, I believe?) They'll be able to say "just a sec," and you can wait.

Knock and announce also avoids the "horrified scream" factor, you know?

You sound like one awesome dad!








Don't let the world's discomfort determine your parenting choices!

Christine


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Wow there certainly are some open women here!
I would definitely be uncomfortable if a man came into the ladies room while I was in there. Definitely. Or if I walked in and there was a man in there.
If it were a single toilet bathroom (the kind where you lock the door) obviously I'd have no problem at all with a man going in there.

I dunno. If you are going to do it, I'd say to definitely announce it- and give the person time to answer. When I was a teenager, I would have probably been too shy to answer immediately, and I probably would have been traumatized if a man came in. (If you can't tell, I have issues with men)
And if you are already in the bathroom, do what you can to keep the stall door open, so a woman coming in can see immediately that there is a man in the bathroom.

Yeah, my issues are my issues, but there is a reason it's a ladies room. kwim? But if you are super considerate about it, I don't see the problem. Especially given your reasons.


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

I have seen Dads with their daughters in women's bathrooms before on several occasions. It's never bothered me.


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## Moose (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper*

I am curious if anyone knows.....how do people handle adults that need bathroom assistance? Like if I was taking care of a disabled man who needed to use the restroom while we were out. Which room should be used?

You would use the men's room. The individual under care receives "The care" Its all about them being as comfortable as possible. You get to suck it up.

This is one of the first things they teach you if you work on an Alzheimer's Unit. I did a year on a unit and Its all about feelings not memories. Make the person feel comfortable and secure and they will be WAY better off. The actual events may not stay with them but the feelings will.

Thanks again to everyone for your support.


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## coloradoalice (Oct 12, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies, but my dd doesn't always like using big potties so I always take her baby bjorn little potty with us. You don't need a bathroom to use it, you could go into a changing room or just a quiet corner somewhere. I keep mine in the car, and if at all possible we just go out there and I dump the pee in the grass somewhere. It's gotten better now that she can hold it a bit. Also, she has never pooped while we are out so that hasn't been an issue............yet!


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Moose*
You would use the men's room. The individual under care receives "The care" Its all about them being as comfortable as possible. You get to suck it up.

This is one of the first things they teach you if you work on an Alzheimer's Unit. I did a year on a unit and Its all about feelings not memories. Make the person feel comfortable and secure and they will be WAY better off. The actual events may not stay with them but the feelings will.

Thanks again to everyone for your support.

So that was a leading question







If the tables are turned and a man is caring for a disabled adult woman, what do the people of this thread say about that man entering the women's room? How is he suppose to do that? Do your feelings change for those of you who don't think the OP should be going into the women's room?

I personally think that all bathrooms should be genderless individual rooms.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper*
I personally think that all bathrooms should be genderless individual rooms.

If men's bathrooms are as digusting and unhygienic as you've made them out to be, I'd rather keep men's and women's rooms separate, thank you very much.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmd*
If men's bathrooms are as digusting and unhygienic as you've made them out to be, I'd rather keep men's and women's rooms separate, thank you very much.









That is a good point...... OK, I revise. In a perfect world the bathrooms would be genderless, individual, and thoroughly cleaned after each use







I also think part of the reason men's rooms are so gross is that men do not care. If women were using the same room, I am guessing standards would have to come up a bit.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

I totally forgot that after the first time I read this thread, we were at a restaraunt and I had to use the b-room. As I was coming out, there was a man and his little one standing in the hall and he was talking to the little one about the fact that there was nowhere to change a diaper in the men's room. Hearing that, I told him to use the changing table in the women's room while I stood "guard". I felt really bad for him. I even told the hostess that they really should get a changing table in the men's room and that I consider it rude and disrespectful for the men's room not to have this available.

On Sunday, dh and I went to the grocery store and for some reason, dh always has to "go", like really go, when we go to the store.







He hadn't used the b-room at this particular store before and was in quite a hurry. When he came back out and found me he told me that he had apparently used the women's room accidentally and that explained why it was so clean.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I have used the mens room on a rare occassion when I was pregnant and couldn't wait in the super long lines in the ladies room.

What is up with no changing tables in mens rooms? It takes two parents to make a baby... Lots of dads take their kids out. I guess thats a different thread... But it gets me mad!

I would just crack open the door and yell if anyone is in there. When it is clear, I would take your daughter in. And announce a man is in there anytime the door opens, and tell them you will be out as soon as your child finishes. I would not be offended. I think its cool you are so caring!


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## CYL (Jun 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper*
So that was a leading question







If the tables are turned and a man is caring for a disabled adult woman, what do the people of this thread say about that man entering the women's room? How is he suppose to do that? Do your feelings change for those of you who don't think the OP should be going into the women's room?

If there are disabled adults involved they should be using the disabled bathroom, tbh.

Little girls with their dads are perfectly able to use a normal toilet in the ladies room. Disabled women, even with male helpers, generally can't, which is why we have a completely different bathroom for them.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CYL*
If there are disabled adults involved they should be using the disabled bathroom, tbh.

Little girls with their dads are perfectly able to use a normal toilet in the ladies room. Disabled women, even with male helpers, generally can't, which is why we have a completely different bathroom for them.

I assume you mean stall, not room, right? Most places I have ever been to don't have separate handicapped bathrooms, only handicapped stalls.


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## CYL (Jun 8, 2006)

Ah, I live in the UK. Places here generally have a completely seperate bathroom, with much more manoeuvering space, fixed hand rails and a lower sink for wheelchair users.

I'm not sure if it's required by law or not, but it's so common it's virtually unheard of to find a place without them.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

I've been in a few places where a man has been in the ladies room helping his disabled wife.

If a man were in the ladies room with 2 little girls I wouldn't be disturbed. It is obvious why you are in there. What's the big deal anyway? You daughter has a right to use the bathroom and have an adult help her. Unless you are trying to look in the stalls all you are going to see is women washing their hands. Or in my case a woman helping a 4 y/o boy wash his hands too.

It is really a bummer that taking your daughter to the bathroom has to be such an issue.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

That would be nice to have those here CYL. All I usually see is handicapped stalls, which are twice the size as regular ones, has a lower toilet, hand rails, etc.


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## CYL (Jun 8, 2006)

I've never seen a handicapped stall. It just seems much nicer to have a whole bathroom for a disabled person. Also, they're usually quite clean and tidy too.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah I imagine the would be nicer.


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWhimsey*
I'd like to throw a new opinion in here. I cover head to toe, and if I need to readjust or to take off my scarf or something to fix it, I go to the womens room. I can take my scarf off in front of women, so if I want to readjust it, I have to be where there are only women. I would be absolutely mortified, horrified, and feel encroached upon if a man were to come into the womens room when I was not covered. It would be a breach of my morals. To me it would be like you walking into a womens dressing room and opening the curtains. I know that is not the common opinion here, but it's just something to think about. I've never heard of any men coming into the womens rooms, but now that I have I feel that I need to be more modest and readjust in the stall without the mirror. Oh and I know that in the state where I live, a man in the womens room (or vice versa) is a ticketable offense.

I hear your need for modesty. Would you feel comfortable with a man announcing his intentions and waiting for an "all clear" before entering?


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## mfp02 (Jan 5, 2005)

I realize the OP's post is old but..

I have no problem with a man being in the ladies restroom. Only if his reason is to help his daughter use it of course. I keep my pants to my knees so they don't touch the floor. So unless someone stuck their head under my stall, they wouldn't see much. And I could care less if people hear me going to the bathroom.

So speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind if you brought her in. But I can understand feeling uncomfortable. I'd ask an employee to accompany you maybe.


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## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

A man with 2 small kids in tow I wouldn't think twice about it BUT just a man by himself well that would be a different story.......

I find it interesting that so many woman woud be disturbed by this. After all the stalls have doors - yes some places the doors are better than others - but at home a door is all that separates a bathroom from the rest of the house so I just don't see the difference.

Maggie


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9*
but at home a door is all that separates a bathroom from the rest of the house so I just don't see the difference.

Maggie

at first i thought of a guy in the girls room as disturbing. after some thought i changed my mind..

Home is very different that a public bathroom. home is where my family is, not strangers


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

IF you had the time to (as in my dd wasn't about to go in her pants) asking for help to clear the ladies room would be ok...
but in my opinion
i would have no problem at all if a DAD and his dd's walked into the bathroom...
period...
very few women would (or would speak up about it if they did)
and the few that ever would say something...i would just think that i would polietly explain taht no GOOD father would send a young child into the bathroom by herself or take two young dd's into a mens room
period
sorry my children and their NEEDS come first...everyone elses comfort levels come a distant second

my dh has scouted out the places he CAN go with dd and their potty situations (target has family, our library has a single restroom on the second floor, a favorite coffee shop has unisex restrooms etc)
he wanted to take her to a local concert the othernight at a coffee shop
but lost the nerve when he realized he would have to clear out the grils restroom if dd had to go
(i do not think she would let a strange women take her to the the potty, she is shy)
good luck
and keep fighting the good fight.


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## edswife (Jun 28, 2006)

I keep reading about these "family" bathrooms and have to say I've only seen ONE such restroom in my entire metro area and that's at the mall. It seems like such a great idea.


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

good point edswife, family bathrooms are not a common thing....
making it even more ridiculous to insist that dads should not take their dd to the women's bathroom.


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## AlbertaJes (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b*
I know women that will use the men's room if the ladies room is busy or out of toilet paper.

This is my thought with all of this. And I don't believe I've ever seen a woman announce herself before entering the men's room, they all just march right in. I can't bring myself to use the men's room even out of desperation. I'd rather go find a tree to hide behind.

Personally, I would like the announcement before entering, and I can see where some women would like a few minutes to compose themselves. But for me, if it comes down to it, if I'm changing or whatever, I would be in a stall anyway, so big deal.

And IMHO, the argument about the crack between the stall door and the wall is a bit weak. If a dad is concerned enough to be taking his dds into the women's room, he's not going to be taking his attention off of them to try and sneak a peek through a teensy little crack.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I haven't had a chance to read all the replies, but it would not bother me in the least to see a man in the ladies room to tend to his children. Yes, announcing yourself is a good idea.

Family bathrooms are awesome. I have started seeing them a little more.


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## arismom1029 (Apr 16, 2006)

You could knock first, and as you walk in, say something like I'm coming in, with my daughters, just to let everyone know, that way they don't get freaked if they see you.....







It wouldn't bother me, as long as I saw kids with dad!


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## nancy926 (Mar 10, 2003)

I agree with the above post - I'd have no problem with you or your daughters in a ladies' room.

My DH is also a stay-at-home dad and we have 2 DDs, so I can see this happening to him soon. I hope he doesn't get screamed at or tossed out of a ladies' room...I would much rather have him take our kids in a ladies' room than into a mens' room. In a ladies' room, there's really nothing to see, KWIM? Assuming all the stall doors are working properly, that is.


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## JoyJoy1975 (May 10, 2006)

I would rather a man take his DD in the womans to use it then to expose his young child to a strangers penis that is more traumatizing then a darn man in the bathroom. I know my DH has this delima too he uses a family restroom or a unisex bathroom and he avoids taking them to places that don't have one Glad our mall has both. I had no idea tell I had children what a issue it was I asked my DH why he did not just take them to the mens room ugh honey thier is no stalls for the urnals. OHHHHHHHH ok then.







:


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

For those of you who think it would be traumatizing for a young girl to see a stranger's penis in the mens' bathroom, I have a question. Why do you think it would not be equally traumatizing for a young boy to see a stranger's penis in the mens' bathroom? Why would a girl automatically be traumatized, but not a boy?

I totally understand not wanting any child in the mens' room because of the cleanliness issue, but I just don't buy the traumatizing issue, unless a child has already been molested, and that would count equally for girls and boys.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjlioness*
For those of you who think it would be traumatizing for a young girl to see a stranger's penis in the mens' bathroom, I have a question. Why do you think it would not be equally traumatizing for a young boy to see a stranger's penis in the mens' bathroom? Why would a girl automatically be traumatized, but not a boy?

I totally understand not wanting any child in the mens' room because of the cleanliness issue, but I just don't buy the traumatizing issue, unless a child has already been molested, and that would count equally for girls and boys.

Good question!

This really isn't the same situation, but it sort of applies here. We have a neighbor putting on a deck for us. The other day he was here to make sure the right color was being ordered. Ds (almost 3) came marching outside to tell him a snake story and was totally naked. I immediately apologized and he laughed and said with four boys, he's seen it all and running outside naked is on the minor end of what they do.







I relaxed a bit then, knowing that he wasn't horrified or anything. (You never know with the people in this area). I mentioned it to dh and he was ticked off about it. I sort of see his point, but not completely. How is this different than when he tries to get him to pee in a urinal with a complete stranger standing there? Maybe there should be privacy panels at all urinals? Or just not have them?

I apologize if this doesn't seem completely on topic. But it really has me thinking now.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Well.... I don't feel my dd would be traumatized but she is only two however I will say that my son _has_ a penis so he is pretty familiar with them. Some girls may never have even seen a penis.


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheena*
Well.... I don't feel my dd would be traumatized but she is only two however I will say that my son _has_ a penis so he is pretty familiar with them. Some girls may never have even seen a penis.

I tell my son when he asks now why he's going into the ladies room that he is not old enough to go to the mens room alone and mommy doesnt wanna be int he mens room. i tell him that he is a small child so its okay if he goes intot he ladies room.
Now, my 2 1/2 yo now loves to grab her brother every chance she gets.
Imagine her in the mens room??


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## Inci (Apr 22, 2005)

I would be very uncomfortable to see a man in the women's room, with or without children, and I do not believe it's acceptable for a man to be in there. Women-only space is women-only space, period.

Valid reasons for maintaining women's privacy/right to their own space have already been mentioned - one woman has said that having a man present while she was adjusting her scarf would be a breach of her morals and deeply embarrassing. Another woman said she would likely have a panic attack. And yet, only about 3 or 4 people, out of the *119* posts in this thread, have expressed any concern for, or even acknowledgement, of these two women. These two women represent countless other women who are not here posting in this thread, but who are out there using public restrooms and expecting them to be the safe spaces that they were designed to be. Someone else pointed out (not on this board), that many women's bathrooms have pamphlets/flyers with domestic violence information and phone numbers (and sometimes even phones), because for some women a women's bathroom is the only safe space she has left.

The majority of posters here have repeatedly said dismissive things such as, "If a woman is offended, that's her problem," or "She'll get over it in 5 or 10 mins, so what's the big deal?", or even, "you should all be ashamed of yourselves! you have prudish issues! [...] get over yourself!" (Moma_justice, your whole post was rude, harsh, and full of attack.)

Women have real, valid reasons for needing and deserving the safety and privacy that women-only bathrooms provide. It is unfair, and mean, to berate women for this.

I AGREE that it's horribly unfair and wrong that some places do not have family bathrooms or changing tables in the men's bathrooms. But complain to the establishment, your local politicians, the government...put the blame where it belongs.

There ARE other options for dads who need to accompany their young daughters to the bathroom in public, which have already been suggested in this thread:

1) Go places with family bathrooms or single-occupancy bathrooms
2) If you need to bring your dds to a place without such bathrooms, bring them to a family bathroom or single-occupancy bathroom elsewhere immediately before, and encourage your 3 yo to pee
3) Petition management for a family bathroom
4) Ask a female employee or friendly woman to check the women's room for you, wait until its current occupants (if any) are out, then have her stand guard at the door while you and your dds use the restroom
5) Ask a male employee or friendly man to check the men's room for you, wait until its current occupants (if any) are out, then have him stand guard at the door while you and your dds use the restroom
6) Have a female employee accompany your dd into the women's room
7) Bring a portable potty seat with you, for use in the men's room. Wear your toddler on your back.
8) Keep a potty in the car

And this is unrelated, but I just can't let this one slide:

Quote:

All of you who would be offended [by a man with toddlers in the women's room]... would you be comfortable if you knew a lesbian was in the bathroom with you?
Sheena, what are you trying to say here?? What an offensive question. Lesbians are women. Thus, belong in the women's room. How is this at all comparable to a man's presence in the women's room?


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:

Sheena, what are you trying to say here?? What an offensive question. Lesbians are women. Thus, belong in the women's room. How is this at all comparable to a man's presence in the women's room?
Um, why are you getting so mad? You can't let it "slide"? What I meant was that if women are uncomfortable with someone who might view them sexually seeing them in the bathroom how would they feel about a woman who might view them sexually. I really don't see how I implied lesbians are not women... How do you know I'm not a lesbian? I am extremely offended by your assumption.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't see how on earth you got that sheena was implying lesbians aren't woman. That seems like quite a stretch. I think her point is a valid one.

I also think children need to be able to use the safest facilities and little girls have the same right to privacy and feeling safe as grown woman.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inci*
There ARE other options for dads who need to accompany their young daughters to the bathroom in public, which have already been suggested in this thread:

1) Go places with family bathrooms or single-occupancy bathrooms
2) If you need to bring your dds to a place without such bathrooms, bring them to a family bathroom or single-occupancy bathroom elsewhere immediately before, and encourage your 3 yo to pee
3) Petition management for a family bathroom
4) Ask a female employee or friendly woman to check the women's room for you, wait until its current occupants (if any) are out, then have her stand guard at the door while you and your dds use the restroom
5) Ask a male employee or friendly man to check the men's room for you, wait until its current occupants (if any) are out, then have him stand guard at the door while you and your dds use the restroom
6) Have a female employee accompany your dd into the women's room
7) Bring a portable potty seat with you, for use in the men's room. Wear your toddler on your back.
8) Keep a potty in the car

And this is unrelated, but I just can't let this one slide:

Sheena, what are you trying to say here?? What an offensive question. Lesbians are women. Thus, belong in the women's room. How is this at all comparable to a man's presence in the women's room?









That's a great list, for an adult.







Why don't you use private bathrooms before you go out? Or keep a potty in your car? Seems logical to me. If you think I small child should be held to these standards, surely you would have no issues doing this yourself, right?

In regards to Sheena's comment, don't make something out of something that wasn't said. It won't get you far.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Inci -- I appreciated your post, and I agree and appreciate your articulate response.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I know it's rather useless to post this, but -- I'm on the fence here. I agree with Inci's points about safe space for women. And while I know how gross a men's bathroom *looks*, really, you can't see germs. Toilets spray fecal matter *everywhere*. A 6' radius, if I'm not mistaken. I know there must be more germs in a men's toilet, but that doens't mean there are none in a women's. I would be cleaning my kids just as thoroughly after using either facility. At the same time, it feels harsh to be saying "sorry little toddler girl, go to the icky men's bathroom."

And, for what it's worth -- I have three kids, ages 6, 4, and 2. I only go places where I have access to family bathrooms because I can't fit all three kids in a single stall with me, and I don't feel safe leaving the older two at large in the bathroom (and no, it's not just for their safety!







). I don't see it as unfair -- I'm a parent, looking after kids (I'm a stay at home mom who has in my care (40 plus hours a week) young children), I can't always go absolutely everywhere and anywhere and expect everyone to cater to me.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

This issue obviously can bring out some very intense feelings, on both sides. But please, let's remember that we all need to post in a respectful manner and not attack anyone else for their opinions... even if you don't agree with them.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

I was originally on the fence about this until the point was brought up that a handicapped female has every right for her husband or other male caregiver to accompany her into the bathroom to help her. We would never tell her to get an employee or stranger to help her wipe. I don't see a single person who has argued against this. And I can't imagine anyone objecting to a man announcing at a restroom door, "I need to come into the bathroom to help my handicapped wife." (Or a woman announcing at the men's door that she needed to help her husband.) So, if we can establish that it's ok for the men to be in the women's bathroom in this situation, then there really is no argument for a dad not accompanying his young daughter into the bathroom either.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
I was originally on the fence about this until the point was brought up that a handicapped female has every right for her husband or other male caregiver to accompany her into the bathroom to help her. We would never tell her to get an employee or stranger to help her wipe. I don't see a single person who has argued against this. And I can't imagine anyone objecting to a man announcing at a restroom door, "I need to come into the bathroom to help my handicapped wife." (Or a woman announcing at the men's door that she needed to help her husband.) So, if we can establish that it's ok for the men to be in the women's bathroom in this situation, then there really is no argument for a dad not accompanying his young daughter into the bathroom either.

I really like the way you worded this. I guess I don't see why those who need help, whether they are young or old or disabled should be expected to just figure it out. Isn't there any compassion for those people? Honestly, if there's a little girl who really needs to go or a disabled woman who needs help, could those who are uncomfortable just maybe wait if it's that big of a deal to them? Would anyone be able to say that those people should find another place to go and actually feel good about saying that?


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

To me the whole idea just seems odd. I guess when I was a little girl, my dad just took me into the mens room. If my husband is out with our daughter and she has to go potty then he takes her to the mens room as well, I asked him about taking her into the women's room and he said there is no way he ever would. He said he would rather bring lysol wipes and wash up a toilet for her to use in the mens room than burst in on women. Just the other day I needed to go shopping for some clothes and since I would need to try stuff on I brought a stroller with. I had to use the restroom and I couldn't fit the stroller into the stall with me and I refuse to leave my children unattended, so I had to use the restroom with the stall door open and the stroller half in my stall. So, this would have been a major modesty issue for me if a man would have come in... with children or not.

I guess some other things pop into my head as well. Once my daughter is old enough to use the restroom alone, I am not fond of the idea that there may be men in the restroom. The dirt factor has also been mentioned many, many times.... well, if more men start using the women's bathroom because of how dirty the men's room is, then wouldn't it stand to reason that soon the women's bathroom will be nasty as well? If I am supposed to get over my prudishness for men bringing in their young DDs, should I also get over it for any man that wants to use a women's room for anyreason (I am not being snarky, really, I am just asking)?


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

I guess this thread could go on and on and on forever with arguments of why or why not men should be allowed to do this. So, instead of rambling on unproductively, why not come up with ideas on how to get across to retailers and restaraunts that they need to have family restrooms? Obviously it would take more work the bigger the establishment, but I think it could be done if enough people voice their feelings to the people who can do something about it instead of to each other on MDC. KWIM?

Just a little personal vent, but I am getting tired of people always complaining about things but not taking action.


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## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotwings640*
so I had to use the restroom with the stall door open and the stroller half in my stall. So, this would have been a major modesty issue for me if a man would have come in... with children or not.

I can see how that would be an issue.
I personally would use the handicap stall or hold it(or find a single bathroom).







I'm very shy though and wouldnt care for other women to see me with the door open(never mind men).


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

I like the knock and announce yourself idea - BUT - that only works if ALL the women inside have the ability to hear you. Over the sounds of the water, hand-dryers, etc - it wouldn't take much for a women with even a small degree of hearing loss to not hear you. Or the woman involved with dealing with her own small children who are being noisy, or the one who is drying her hands.

If it *must* be done - definitely have someone go in and physcially ensure that the room is either empty, or that those who remain fully understand that a man is entering and are comfortable with that. AND have someone stand guard.


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## nancy926 (Mar 10, 2003)

I think the point is kind of moot, since we're not the ones who'd actually be *doing* it (well, except for the OP). I asked my DH if he'd ever take the girls into a women's restroom and he said no way, unless it was a one-staller with a lock on the outside. He's not going to barge into a women's room, hurriedly explaining that his 4-year-old really has to pee.









Would you take your 4-year-old son into the men's room? I don't have boys, but I can tell you that if I did, I would not. They'd be going into the women's room with me until they were old enough to go into the men's room themselves.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nancy926*
Would you take your 4-year-old son into the men's room? I don't have boys, but I can tell you that if I did, I would not. They'd be going into the women's room with me until they were old enough to go into the men's room themselves.

Nope - my son (who will be 4 in less than a month) comes into the women's washroom with me if the family washroom is occupied. He prefers the family washroom, because the toilet is his size. He's got no issues coming into the women's washroom with me, and will continue to do so for a good while longer.

*IF* DH was to take our dd to the washroom (she's almost 2 now, so just goes to the men's with him) when she gets older - it would be the same. First preferance to a single-stall locking washroom, second to a family washroom, and then using the men's.


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## Artmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I say just open the ladies room door a little without looking in and announce, "Ladies! Any ladies in here?I am a Dad with two little girls who needs to come in to help them with the potty! If you would like me to wait until you come out, please say so and I will repect that! "

I think if a woman is really freaked out she will ask you to wait, but for goodness sake, it is not like you are going into her stall. what is the big difference between that and using the port a potty next to someone from the opposite sex? The ladies will hear your little girls and know you are for real.

Just my opinion!


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artmama*
I say just open the ladies room door a little without looking in and announce, "Ladies! Any ladies in here?I am a Dad with two little girls who needs to come in to help them with the potty! If you would like me to wait until you come out, please say so and I will repect that! "

I think if a woman is really freaked out she will ask you to wait, but for goodness sake, it is not like you are going into her stall. what is the big difference between that and using the port a potty next to someone from the opposite sex? The ladies will hear your little girls and know you are for real.

Just my opinion!

Good idea - *IF* all the women in the room can hear you.


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