# Is Grandfather to needy or is it Cause for Concern?



## Guest71 (Dec 11, 2016)

A little background - I am in my 2nd marriage and we have an 11yo DD. My mom and stepdad are helicopter grandparents mostly because they watched our dd from 6wks to 3rd grade while we worked until I became a sahm and began homeschooling. We are working on the helicopting issue.

My mom was sexually abused when she was young and has always had a heightened fear of men around girls to an extreme. I grew up believing guys were basically evil. I vowed to never let her instill that fear in our dd. 

When our dd was about 6 I found out my mom was telling our dd 'the stories' about how men will hurt you and not to let them see your underwear including daddy. DD became very shy and would even cringe when she went for a checkup with her doctor who was male. I had it out with my mom and worked very hard to overcome the damage she started.

Then at 8yrs old my stepdad started complaining about DD not hugging him anymore. At first we just shrugged it off as kids go through phases, but then my mind went back to my childhood and 'the stories' my mom would tell me. After talking with my husband and dd, we spoke with my sd and told him we thought it was mom again, but we explained that girls grow up and don't want to be affectionate always. I became a sahm mom around this time for other reasons, but it helped with dd somewhat. 

Now our dd is 11 and I think I was completely wrong in how I handled it. If she is around just me or her dad, she is a vibrant, outspoken young lady. She is in Awanas and Girl Scouts and around kids she is awesome. But around adults she is very timid. When we go shopping, she will hide behind me or her dad when any adult comes up to talk even if she knows them including female former teachers. She used to spend Friday nights at my parents, but rarely wants to go over there anymore. I chalk it up to her wanting to spend more time with her friends, but looking backwards I am beginning to worry. 

Both my mom and stepdad complain about her not being over there that much anymore. They love feeding us guilt trips even to our dd that she doesn't love or care about them. My sd has become especially verbal about dd not wanting hugs or good night kisses or she won't sit with him. My husband and I haven't worried about that like that because we don't really ever think about it. She gives us hugs, kisses, watches tv with us, sits with us - but all as she wants to, we don't ask. But I have made myself more aware of late to what's been going on. Every time my parents come over, my sd constantly is asking dd where's my hug or where's my kiss, "Come sit with me". When we all play cards together and dd is sitting next to him, he will stroke her back or rub her leg and she will scrunch down and come sit by me or dad. 

Last night my mom alarm screamed and I haven't slept all night. My parents were over playing cards. My sd did his usual complaining because dd didn't want to play cards and didn't give hugs. We were in the dining room, dd was in the living room playing with the dogs. She would come in every now and then and sit with me for a minute then back off to play. At one point I told dd she needed to put some deodorant on to which my helicopter mom responded why she doesn't smell, she didn't smell earlier. DD took the chance to leave the room and go play again. 

Some time after this, sd in the middle of a round, got up from the table without saying anything. When I noticed he didn't go toward the bathroom, my alarm went off. I got up and went to the living room and seen him beside her with his hand on her shoulder he pulled her to him and made her kiss him. I pretended I was getting something, he leaned down and whispered 'do as your mother says'. DD went off into the other room with her dogs and he went back to the table. 

I don't know if I am overreacting or is this something to worry about? Did he really do as I saw or is it my imagination from years of mom telling me crap men will do? I read what I wrote and I am beating myself up for failing to protect her and at the same time thinking I am crazy in the head for even thinking this. 

I need opinions from people who haven't been abused -is this something I should be worried about, or is sd behavior just a loving grandfather who misses his granddaughter? Sd has two daughters from his 1st marriage who have never seemed to have any issues. He has been married to my mom since I was 17 and never did anything towards me. 

My plan is to be proactive and have a full discussion with my dd about owning her body and no one has the right to make her do anything she doesn't want. I also plan on restricting all visits with my parents and dd unless dd requests to go- no more saying you're going to grandma's. I have spoken with my husband about this and whether threat is real or not, we are going to talk with them separately - me with mom and husband with sd. The plan is to address it as a growing up issue which I thought we had already covered, but this time more firm and to the point. Explain pre-teens need to have their boundaries respected so they can learn self-worth. Ask that he not request any more kisses, hugs, sit time etc. Explain that neither of us make those requests of her. DD has the right to make her own choices and not to feel guilt pressure. Ask no more remarks to her about her not loving or caring about them. Try to be firm without to many feelings hurt as they both can be overwhelming. Any other suggestions, thoughts?


----------



## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't think you're overreacting. There are some big red flags IMO. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm not even going to try to be 'gentle' here. WHO CARES if you hurt any adult feelings? YOUR CHILD COMES FIRST. No one should be guilting you into making you or your child do anything! If your child does not want to spend time with grandpa then she doesn't want to spend time with him- end of discussion.

There are tons of red flags going on.


----------



## Letitia (Aug 27, 2009)

No matter what the history, was your SD did was wrong and concerning. 

I was not ever abused as a child, but I definitely remember not wanting to kiss all the relatives from some point in mid-childhood until some time during my teens. I don't think I had any sensory issues, it was just the stirrings of puberty and feeling self-conscious about everything in the world, and not knowing who I was. I don't know how to explain it, but I wasn't disturbed in any way when it started. I think was normal to have wanted to establish boundaries with my body during a time I was beginning to become aware of it. 

I have an 8yo son with some issues, with whom I have had a complicated relationship because I was pretty much out of the picture due to illness for a year right after he turned 2. Until the past maybe 2 years, he rarely wanted to be kissed or snuggled. I always asked him, and it always hurt my heart, but even as a little guy I thought he should get to decide things about his body that weren't mandatory (bathing was a real challenge). He has really changed, and now isn't the snuggliest kid in the world but almost always says yes to a kiss or hug from me. I think all his "no's" were important to him maintaining some control in a world that was at the time overwhelming for him. 

So, not saying anything about your daughter, those are two scenarios that don't have necessarily sinister underpinnings. If a relative had treated me or my son as your SD treated your daughter, my emotional alarms would have gone off really loud. Regardless of if a person has been abused or not, and it should be normal for others to respect reasonable boundaries a person, even a very young person, sets with their body. What your SD did was really wrong. Even if you talk to your daughter and find out she wasn't that upset by it, it's teaching her a terrible message: the guy is the one to make the decision about what happens with her body, not her. 

If this happened in my own family, I would try to talk with my daughter about it. It would be good to know how she experienced it, and it would be important for her to know that he was wrong. I would definitely talk with SD and tell him in no uncertain terms that it's not OK, and that, at least for now, you can't trust him to be alone with your daughter, and if the pressuring does not stop he can't see her. Especially if this was something your daughter found traumatic, she needs to know you've got her back.


----------



## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I have no personal or family history of abuse. He sounds really creepy.



Guest71 said:


> The plan is to address it as a growing up issue which I thought we had already covered, but this time more firm and to the point. Explain pre-teens need to have their boundaries respected so they can learn self-worth


I would be a little more forceful than that. I would say that you feel it is imperative that as an adolescent female she learn that she should have boundaries when it comes to physical contact with men _and that she deserves to have those boundaries respected_, because young women who don't learn that lesson are very much at risk of ending up in abusive situations. Add that you feel her timidity with adults and authority figures makes the need for her to learn this assertiveness all the more crucial. Make it clear that you are viewing this as a crucial and urgent part of her upbringing. Don't give him any wiggle room.

Miranda


----------



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*Agree with everyone*

I had a few thoughts running through my mind. One was that maybe he's getting some form of dementia where he's losing a sense of what is appropriate behaviour. Another was that from what I've heard, abuse survivors somehow statistically often end up in abusive relationships/perhaps have a skewed view on what's normal, further on in life. No offence meant here. And yet another was that you were 17 when you met him, probably already independent from the family. I totally agree that blanket fear of adults/strangers will never serve you well, that was the whole problem with the stranger danger campaign. You've somehow got to encourage her to act more confidently, encourage her to speak for herself. I was a very unconfident kid, some of it may have been because my parents would try to do everything for me, some of it was maybe from my mom being fearful of so many things.


----------



## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Trust your gut instincts. Talk to your daughter very gently, make it clear that you are the trusted adult, and no matter what, you are there for her, you will believe her, and you will protect her. Even if he is not doing anything "sexually abusive" his behavior is inappropriate, and he needs to be told to not seek out your daughter when she is alone, and that forcing physical affection from anyone is wrong, it crosses boundaries which he needs to respect, and if he doesn't, then he will no longer be welcome in your home. 

With the discussion with your daughter, it is best to approach it as "I noticed sd did something which made you appear uncomfortable" rather than "We saw you were uncomfortable". Make it clear the issue is with him, his behavior, not her reaction to it. 

I really hope nothing truly worrisome is going on, but if it is, you are on the right path to ending it and helping your daughter


----------



## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

Mumto1 is right---it's not even just statistical, it's fact. People who experienced sexual abuse very frequently choose partners that are also abusive or at the very least have poor interpersonal boundaries. Unless your mom got some solid therapy, she is still going to be skewed about all of this.

Everyone has already told you what you already knew. This is a serious situation meriting your immediate attention. There is nothing normal about the scenario you described. Men are not evil but your daughter needs to know without any doubt that she does not need to do things that her whole being is telling her to avoid. His behavior is completely and fully inappropriate for any age child but particularly for a girl entering puberty.

This is going to shake up your family. This is going to be painful. But you need to take immediate action not to leave her with your mom and sd and not to ever put her in a situation where she is alone with him. She may or may not have concrete disclosures for you now. Even if things have happened she may be uncomfortable telling you. But he has already violated her boundaries by pressing this issue of hugs and kisses, and her need to not have that ever happen again needs to be honored.


----------



## BirthFree (Nov 2, 2005)

Also, be careful the wording so it does blame her and a young mind can't make it seem that way...
"It looked like it made you uncomfortable" versus "I saw ___ happen and that isn't something we do... I felt uncomfortable and am wondering how it made you feel. Maybe it did or didn't bother you" - - you let her know that isn't a typical thing and take ownership of your feelings while gently opening the door for her to say how she feels and you already feeling that way is ^light years^ easier to do versus saying that alone.

Also, some people will threaten a victims safety TO the victim so I've always told my kids that no one can harm us, we believe them, support them, etc. (I check in with them several times a year about this just so they keep it in mind).

How is it going @Guest71 ?


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Even if nothing more sinister is going on, it is NEVER OK for an adult to "demand" hugs and kisses from a child who isn't comfortable doing so. If nothing else, step grandpa is treating your daughter disrespectfully and not validating her rights to bodily autonomy. I have never made a child hug or kiss an adult if they didn't want to- even if it was just because they were feeling shy at the moment, or didn't want to pause their game and were happily affectionate 5 minutes later.

It _might_ be that SD is only trying to be an affectionate grandfather, but DD is scared because of all that Grandma told her before. But it doesn't matter. He's violating her boundaries and making her uncomfortable. 11 is already the beginnings of puberty and lots of kids are much more private at that age. Mature adults respect that.

I would immediately stop letting your parents watch your daughter unsupervised. I might still allow them to visit at your home, but I'd completely stop letting her go over to their house without you.


----------



## Guest71 (Dec 11, 2016)

Thank you for all the responses. I wrote op in the middle of night because I couldn't sleep thinking over everything. My husband and I have talked about this in-depth and I have spoken with our daughter. DD says she wasn't uncomfortable but wanted to play. I have had talks with her previously about these type issues and I believe she would be honest and open with me in her responses. However, even though after talking with her, I do not believe anything 'in that manner' has happened, I reinforced the 'it's her body and no one has the right to make her feel uncomfortable or do anything to make her feel uncomfortable'. She explained it does make her uncomfortable that grandpa is always asking her for hugs and kisses and making her feel guilty when he keeps pressing the issue -which i had to explain what feeling guilty meant.

Do you know there are no good videos for young girls/preteens that go over the issue of uncomfortable situations such as this? At least none I could find. They are geared for little kids or those already abused.

Anyways, my husband and I both feel that sd and my mom are too emotionally attached to our dd. They are both retired and in their 70's. Their life is our dd and I mean that in the truest sense. DD has grown up knowing both homes as her home. She used to spend more time there than here when she was in school, then it was about equal time because they would come over here or she would spend weekends there. She is their only grandchild nearby and they have always spoiled her rotten. It wasn't until this year we were able to convince them she did not need a car seat anymore. The biggest issue we think is that they still see her as their little girl and not the budding young woman she is becoming. My husband feels that is why sd has become more verbal with the requests and complaints of late. He misses the little girl that she used to be just as a parent feels when there kids grow up and go to college. He is suffering from 'empty nester syndrome'. We are not making excuses here, just letting you see the whole picture. The behavior is still unacceptable and will be stopped.

We have not had a chance to talk with either of them yet because both have become sick with cold/flu. We will, after the holidays, explain our position that the requests will stop. And until then, dd will not be around them without us present.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

We had a male friend who said to my daughter on her 3rd birthday "Give me a kiss" leaning his cheek in. He sounded like how a relative might sound. I took it as innocent. Nonetheless, I immediately interceded, seeing my dd felt awkward, and said, "In our household, noone has to kiss or hug anyone if they dont want to." He never asked again, and I hope as a result, dd feels confident about her own boundaries.

Your sd has no rights to 'kisses or hugs' from your daughter. It sounds like youve already had that conversation. The situation with your parents does sound awkward. 

I dont know of any videos. If you find any, please post them here.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Ruthla said:


> Even if nothing more sinister is going on, it is NEVER OK for an adult to "demand" hugs and kisses from a child who isn't comfortable doing so. If nothing else, step grandpa is treating your daughter disrespectfully and not validating her rights to bodily autonomy. I have never made a child hug or kiss an adult if they didn't want to- even if it was just because they were feeling shy at the moment, or didn't want to pause their game and were happily affectionate 5 minutes later.
> 
> It _might_ be that SD is only trying to be an affectionate grandfather, but DD is scared because of all that Grandma told her before. But it doesn't matter. He's violating her boundaries and making her uncomfortable. 11 is already the beginnings of puberty and lots of kids are much more private at that age. Mature adults respect that.
> 
> *I would immediately stop letting your parents watch your daughter unsupervised. I might still allow them to visit at your home, but I'd completely stop letting her go over to their house without you.*


I agree with the bolded. But are they still acting as babysitters?


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Guest71 said:


> Thank you for all the responses. I wrote op in the middle of night because I couldn't sleep thinking over everything. My husband and I have talked about this in-depth and I have spoken with our daughter. DD says she wasn't uncomfortable but wanted to play. I have had talks with her previously about these type issues and I believe she would be honest and open with me in her responses. However, even though after talking with her, I do not believe anything 'in that manner' has happened, I reinforced the 'it's her body and no one has the right to make her feel uncomfortable or do anything to make her feel uncomfortable'. She explained it does make her uncomfortable that grandpa is always asking her for hugs and kisses and making her feel guilty when he keeps pressing the issue -which i had to explain what feeling guilty meant.
> 
> Do you know there are no good videos for young girls/preteens that go over the issue of uncomfortable situations such as this? At least none I could find. They are geared for little kids or those already abused.
> 
> ...


I think that your husband is being wise and compassionate about the situation. I absolutely agree that children's boundaries must be respected and that no child should EVER be pushed to hug or kiss relatives when they don't want to.

Am I correct that you do not believe that grandpa is sexually abusing his granddaughter?

If your parents provided daily care from the time she was six months old through third grade do you think it's fair to say that they helped to raise this child? It's not surprising that grandparents who were this involved with a child's upbringing are deeply attached and may be experiencing separation anxiety now that she's growing up. I'm not saying that the insistence on physical displays of affection are anything other than wrong. That absolutely must stop. But if there is no abuse taking place, do you think a counselor might be able to help your family navigate the situation? If nothing else I think it might be helpful for you to speak with someone for no other reason than to help you deal with the fears your mother passed on.


----------



## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

What I'm trying to say, gently, is that you know that your perception of the situation may be colored, to some extent, by your mother's trauma and her resulting fears. Those inherited fears are something none of us want to see passed on to your child and they are something you need to sort out for yourself. She comes first in this and her healthy development is the priority. 

Given your mother's history I don't know if this situation is something that can be sorted out without a little help from a neutral party. It would be sad to see a family come apart if there's a possibility of healing for everyone involved.


----------

