# Help! Physically aggressive toddler is hurting my kids!



## KABB (Nov 12, 2009)

*I didn't post to play parent or doctor to this boy, to label him, try to diagnosis him, or to try to tell his parents how to parent him. I posted partially as a vent, because I am very angry and upset (and I won't deny it) that my kids are getting hurt constantly by him and the parents stand idly by. Partially for advice for no other reason than I want my kids to stop getting hurt by him but don't know how to handle it because we are a very (physically) close family and avoiding time with him is not without consequences within the family (aka drama).*

Our nephew ("E") is very, very aggressive toward other kids. He's almost two and is solid mass. He is a good head taller-at least-than my youngest daughter ("K") and weighs as much as my almost 4 year old ("B"). He's been like this for quite some time but I got to see first hand how he is toward the other kids today after not really being around him since December. He must have pushed K and B down, or tried two a dozen times. He succeeded knocking K to the floor and hurting her to the point where she was screaming that tortured high pitched "I'm HURT!" cry three times in a period of 4 hours. His parents (Daddy's brother and SIL) did nothing to correct aside from saying "Don't do that." "Don't push." etc.

In addition to pushing and not just pushing playing but pushing with enough force to knock me (full grown adult) off balance, he will jump and fall with all his weight on anyone laying on the floor no matter who it is...including K whom is significantly smaller than he is. And he throws, boy does he throw! He throws and kicks toys all over. A few times he sent some stuff airborne that could have injured others. Nothing is done aside from "We don't kick/throw." It made me very upset today because K kept getting hurt, whether from being shoved over, landed on, or hit with things he was throwing/kicking. Our son also had his Easter toy broken (twice) by E. Again, the behaviour was corrected with a "We don't do that." or "That's (name)'s toy, leave it alone." Nothing else. When I saw him doing things that could have hurt one of my kids I would said "E, NO." or "Leave (name) alone." He'd go off and doing something else for awhile but the behaviour was eventually repeated. The only thing I could do to make sure my kids didn't get hurt (mainly the three younger ones) was watch him like a hawk to see how he interacted with them and try to ward off the physically aggressive behaviour by removing MY kids or their belongings from the equation...punishing them to protect them in a sense. I know it's not my kids because his mom told whomever that her step-sisters son didn't like playing with him anymore because he pushed.

He just doesn't respect boundaries at all and his parents don't help. He's constantly in the kid's faces wanting them to play, trying to sit on them, sit with them, etc. Needless to say they don't want to play with him at times and he just doesn't get it so he keeps at it, trying to get them to play or jump/lay/sit on them.

Typically, aside from the usual sibling rivalry my children can be left to play independently for a period of time without hurting each other like E did to them today. I feel like I shouldn't have to "baby sit" someone else's kid to make sure my kids don't get hurt, when the parents are in the other room, out of eye sight, enjoying the holiday, when they know of their son's aggressive tendencies but don't watch him interact with others. His father mentioned to me and his Uncle that he pushes to get attention. It's also obvious and was verbally stated that his parents are completely exhausted and don't know what to do about the behaviour. He's very active and physical anyway and I know that his mom especially "gives up" in a sense because she can't handle his hyperactivity or doesn't know how to respond to him to remedy the behaviour. It's to the point right now, after seeing what I saw today, my two younger ones have bruises on them now because of being pushed down or hit with toys, I don't want them around their cousin. I also do not want this cousin around their toys-he's broken more stuff of ours than I care to admit and aside from the occasionally "Sorry." his mom use to give (not anymore) the behaviour wasn't corrected.

Having four kids at home I know some physical aggressiveness can happen even in the best behaved kids. However, it's not an ongoing thing with my kids and if/when I saw/see my kids pushing, throwing, or kicking I discipline immediately and quite effectively. Very rarely do my younger two hurt each other on purpose. I talk sternly and if necessary remove the offender from the "fun" and other children. I also explain why the behaviour is unacceptable and what will happen next (time out typically or toy taken away). The older two get restricted and privileges taken away. In addition to that I label the feeling (mad, sad, frustrated, bored, etc.) and try to provide constructive ways of expressing or remedying that feeling and make sure they know that they made (name) feel hurt, sad, angry, etc.

It also makes me extremely mad that on the off moment when my son as had enough, or my middle daughter has had enough of being climbed over, jumped or fallen on, or mauled that they stand up for themselves (yelling at him or pushing him away from them, etc. which happens rarely) that the parents reprimand my kids for hurting their son.

I don't know what to do about this. We all (us, BIL/SIL, and the parents) live within 10 minutes of each other. Holidays are spent together and during that time it's unavoidable that the kids will be together or it will be a major family issue. If the holidays were in our house I would feel more comfortable saying something like "In our house we don't push/throw." or "A (middle daughter) why don't you....so E doesn't bother you?" but considering most of the holidays are spent at the parents that's really not my place. At this time I'm considering telling Daddy I don't want the kids down there if Eric is there (for non-holiday events) and why but I don't think that's going to do much to change things, just remove my kids from it at the risk of ticking them off.

Any advice would be appreciated!


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I have found trying to handle other people's kids when their parents are there is futile at best, and highly, unforgivably, insulting at worst. So if you are in situations where the nephew will always be there along with his parents, You can only relay on what you teach YOUR kids. So, teach them the natural consequences of not playing nice. Teach them self defense. Teach them how to transform the conflict with their cousin so that he cannot hurt them. Teach them how to protect themselves before they get to the point of yelling. If that fails...leave?

My niece is awfully agressive. When her parents are there I instruct Benjamin (and sometimes her sisters) to walk away, disengage and leave the room to escape her and not give her the chance to be aggressive, violent, manipulative, etc. When she is with us alone (ie sans her mom and dad and Gran), I very firmly sit her down the minute her parents leave, get right down to her level and gently but seriously let her no that in no uncertain terms shall she shreik at, strike, injure, attack, pinch, scratch or bite any one in my home, or in my car or we will call her parents IMMEDIATELY to come fetch her, and while she is awaiting their pick-up she will be isolated in a safe place where she cannot hurt anyone else.

She has always behaved like an angel for me when her parents are not around.









If you have to put up with a child and you cannot do so without his parents there, I would seriously suggest merely not spending time with them and explain to BIL and SIL that it is because their child and their lacakdasical attitude towards his aggression has created an unsafe environment for your kids and you will not put your kids in that position. Either that, or avoid them? ETA: which major family issue would you prefer: a fight with your inlaws while they figure out how to parent their child, or your children being mauled by their cousin? I'd rather my in-laws hate me for a while until my niece grows up.

In-laws can be soo tough...is he special needs? Why do they make excuses for him and not also want to protect their niece and nephew?


----------



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I wouldn't socialize with them until this behavior stops. Honeslty, there isn't a whole lot one can do to get a two year old to stop being aggressive. I know this because I have one myself. The only thing I can do to stop aggressive behavior in my DD is to physically remove her from the situation, or better yet, not socialize with other small children. Since these parents seems clueless it's (unfortunately) up to you to lay down the ground rules. I know this is a very awkward situation to be in and I don't envy you at all! But seriously, you can't let this kid hurt your children! You could start by making a rule that if your nephew hurts someone you will leave immediately. That way you are protecting your children, and showing DN that If he's mean his friends go bye-bye. You could announce to everyone that you are leaving because DN isn't playing nice. That way you can make a nice passive aggressive jab at his parents! (I know that passive aggressive behavior is bad, but sometimes it's the best you got)
Good luck!


----------



## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Tough... I am with the others on this one. You can decide whether or not you will try to address the matter with the boy's parents, but you really should not put your children in that position again. There may be hurt feelings, but so what? Your kids need you to defend them until the boy grows out of this phase or the parents get a clue. If it is not just a phase, in which case things will only get worse as he keeps getting stronger. Just in case the parents want to think "boys will be boys" or something like that, your refusal to get together with them could be a wake up call.

If I were you, I would tell the parents that your kids are afraid of their son and refuse to go to their house or see their son. If, for some reason, there is ever a next time, I think you need to be willing to stand up for your kids way before your dd gets hurt 3 times, etc. If you don't feel up to really addressing the situation, you could always say something like "Oh, I notice that x (their son) is not feeling well/too tired to play/etc., so we need to go now and let him get back to his normal daily schedule. Something... anything. You don't need to say that he is out of control and the parents are not doing their job, but I think you do need to figure out a way to leave asap.

Actually, though... I think this battle should be your dh's more than yours, since the kid is his brother's...


----------



## insidevoice (Feb 16, 2011)

Yikes! I guess I come at this from the other side as it is my nearly-three who is kind of a brute. He's a physical kid and pushing/pulling/grabbing etc are simply how he interacts with the world. We are aware of it, and we are working on it, but what is it you wanted your nephew's parents to do? They should have bee there to supervise, and in that situation simply chasing down one of the parents and saying, "Hey, E needs one of you to watch him- he's being pretty physical with the other kids and we need you to supervise him so they are able to play," when they were in the other room would have communicated to them what was necessary.

Also, it sounds like three of your four kids are older than this little guy. If the older ones were retaliating by yelling at him or pushing him away- I can see why they would get after bigger kids who SHOULD know better than to respond that way to a toddler who- regardless of his physical size, is really very much a toddler.

I think my solution would be to talk with all the other adults and point out that you need to make sure one of the adults present is always interacting with the youngest kids. You can all swap off here and there, and that can help to prevent anything from happening as an adult will stop the destruction of a toy before it starts, they can physically stop the pushing and help model words and gentle touches even before those behaviors happen. It means that someone will need to be in arms reach at every moment- with several adults there though, that really isn't a hard thing to manage.


----------



## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

To me, this is more of a hey, parents! come watch your kid! issue than an issue with the kid himself. Some toddlers are really rough. Mine went through a year of pinching which turned to biting. I had to shadow her constantly and even with shadowing all i had to do was look away for a second and she'd pinch/bite. Ugg it was horrible as a parent to have YOUR kid doing that! Toddlers are going to push, kick, scream, pinch, bite, bang, etc. While he seems extra 'energetic' in this area, it's not HIS fault. Correct me if i am wrong, but it sounds like you are upset with the child and don't like him by the tone of your post. I am suggesting that you place all of your frustration on the parents and not the kid. I have a close friend whose child is very physical even when he is being friendly. We just have to supervise him a lot. Now my 3 year old, who used to bite and pinch, is very loving and typically doesn't hurt other kids. Toddlers grow out of it eventually unless they have deeper issues. These are the options i see for you: 1. Supervise the kids yourself and don't say anything to the parents. 2. Ask the parents to help you supervise the kids so no one gets hurt. 3. Don't go to functions with this family. I would go with number two. You can phrase it in a nice way. Something like, 'would you mind coming into the kids room to help me supervise the kids?' E is just being a normal toddler, but so and so is getting hurt and I don't want to say anything to E that you don't want me to say and i don't know what to do to help E be gentle.' Maybe you can think of a better way to say it. Most parents of the toddler who is hurting others feel really bad and embarrassed even though it really is a normal toddler behavior. Again, your real issue is that you feel the parents aren't watching him or doing anything about it.

ETA: Why doesn't the format stay the way that i typed it!!!!!???? I can't stand that it just make my post into one long paragraph every time. What am i doing wrong?


----------



## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

I see two separate issues here.

Quote:


> Again, the behaviour was corrected with a "We don't do that." or "That's (name)'s toy, leave it alone." Nothing else.


This drives me batty. It gives no feedback or information to the offending toddler. Ok so we don't hit or push or bite. But they are missing the other parts of the equation. What can we do instead (use your words, use soft touches, be gentle, come tell Mama) and what will happen if we continue to hurt others. I agree it can be normal toddler frustrations (mine went through a biting phase and it was brutal) but it isn't going to get better until his parents step up and help him get better.

Quote:


> It also makes me extremely mad that on the off moment when my son as had enough, or my middle daughter has had enough of being climbed over, jumped or fallen on, or mauled that *they stand up for themselves (yelling at him or pushing him away from them, etc. which happens rarely)* that the parents reprimand my kids for hurting their son.


As unfair as it seems to your kids, they can't hurt him back. His parents may not see the first offense,they only see the retaliation and blame your child. If you know he is rough, and you know eventually your kids are going to get frustrated than YOU need to be there to intervene.

It is a tough situation. If the parents aren't willing to change their strategies you have to decide if you are able and willing to intervene each time. And if you aren't (that is fine) then I would end the playdates for now.


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

We have this situation in my family and I will step in and deal with it. It is not parenting other people's children, it's not discipline, it's not punishment - but if someone's child is running all over mine and the parents aren't dealing with it, I will - and I won't apologize for that because I'm not wrong. I'll take the toy back, I'll tell the other kid not to hit and sit there and make sure it doesn't happen. I will also physically move them apart if I have to and I don't mind speaking directly to the child - if you hit again, you will have to play in the other room by your mom and dad. I don't mind plopping them in front of mom and dad and saying, she was hitting, you need to talk to her about that.

I don't go out of my way to be mean and I am far and away everyone's favorite aunt. They beg to spend the night at my house and if they need anything they find me and ask for it instead of finding their parents. There are hugs as soon as they see me and tears when it's time to go. I WANT all of our girls to have a good relationship because they're mostly onlies. Cousins are as close to siblings as they're going to get - but I'm not keeping the peace at the expense of my child. The parents must be ok with it, they certainly don't mind asking me to babysit.

It might feel uncomfortable at first, but honestly, after you do it a few times it's not that hard. I use a very serious voice and get down and speak to whoever is doing the hitting or licking or whatever - and then I move on. I don't dwell on it or fuss, but I let them know that an adult has seen this and I've told you no. That usually puts an end to it for a while.


----------



## KABB (Nov 12, 2009)

Our youngest is the same age as him but significantly smaller than he is. Our second youngest is 4 but E is about the same weight as he is. My oldest are 14 and almost 9.

Also, if the parents are aware of the behavior how would approaching them and asking them to "swap" supervising him work? They obviously know yet continue to walk away and leave him unsupervised. Even when they see the behavior they did little to efficiently correct it...like I said usually it's just a verbal "we don't do that' type deal.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *insidevoice*
> 
> Yikes! I guess I come at this from the other side as it is my nearly-three who is kind of a brute. He's a physical kid and pushing/pulling/grabbing etc are simply how he interacts with the world. We are aware of it, and we are working on it, but what is it you wanted your nephew's parents to do? They should have bee there to supervise, and in that situation simply chasing down one of the parents and saying, "Hey, E needs one of you to watch him- he's being pretty physical with the other kids and we need you to supervise him so they are able to play," when they were in the other room would have communicated to them what was necessary.
> 
> ...


----------



## KABB (Nov 12, 2009)

In a nutshell: I am frustrated with the child himself because the child is the one hurting my children constantly. I am angry and frustrated with the parents because they allow their child (for whatever reason-whether it's because they don't know how to parent him, don't know how to correct it, are tired, or don't care to try/try consistently resolve the destructive behavior) to act in ways that continually hurt my children or break their things.

Also, as far as the normal toddler statement you made below...personally I think that's a cop-out. I have four kids at home and out of them only one leaned toward being physical aggression as a toddler. Having four kids at home I know some physical aggressiveness can happen even in the best behaved kids. However, I do NOT react to aggression in my children toward another person by walking away to allow him to offend again just out of my line of sight so I don't have to deal with and leave the child in the same situation with the same "tools" to re-offend. I feel personally that my child has absolutely no right to cause physical harm to another-sibling, relative, or stranger- and whether I am an AP parent choosing to gentle discipline or mainstream parent that spanks or something in between I will not allow that to happen repeatedly. That being said, very rarely are my two youngest (and I mention them and not the older two because they're closest in age to E) physically aggressive toward another on purpose.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shami*
> 
> To me, this is more of a hey, parents! come watch your kid! issue than an issue with the kid himself. Some toddlers are really rough. Mine went through a year of pinching which turned to biting. I had to shadow her constantly and even with shadowing all i had to do was look away for a second and she'd pinch/bite. Ugg it was horrible as a parent to have YOUR kid doing that! Toddlers are going to push, kick, scream, pinch, bite, bang, etc. While he seems extra 'energetic' in this area, it's not HIS fault. Correct me if i am wrong, but it sounds like you are upset with the child and don't like him by the tone of your post. I am suggesting that you place all of your frustration on the parents and not the kid. I have a close friend whose child is very physical even when he is being friendly. We just have to supervise him a lot. Now my 3 year old, who used to bite and pinch, is very loving and typically doesn't hurt other kids. Toddlers grow out of it eventually unless they have deeper issues. These are the options i see for you: 1. Supervise the kids yourself and don't say anything to the parents. 2. Ask the parents to help you supervise the kids so no one gets hurt. 3. Don't go to functions with this family. I would go with number two. You can phrase it in a nice way. Something like, 'would you mind coming into the kids room to help me supervise the kids?' E is just being a normal toddler, but so and so is getting hurt and I don't want to say anything to E that you don't want me to say and i don't know what to do to help E be gentle.' Maybe you can think of a better way to say it. Most parents of the toddler who is hurting others feel really bad and embarrassed even though it really is a normal toddler behavior. Again, your real issue is that you feel the parents aren't watching him or doing anything about it.
> 
> ETA: Why doesn't the format stay the way that i typed it!!!!!???? I can't stand that it just make my post into one long paragraph every time. What am i doing wrong?


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Being aggressive is normal toddler behavior. It sounds like the child is just trying to play or get your children to play with him. He may not realize he is being rough. Lot's of toddlers, even ones that aren't aggressive haven't figured out boundaries yet. Even some preschoolers deal with frustration by being aggressive. Some toddlers don't play well with peers until they are much older. Saying it's not the kids fault or that he will grow out of it is not a cop out, it's just saying that the responsibility lies with the parents. The most effective way to deal with aggression in a toddler is to shadow him and make sure he doesn't hurt another child by physically preventing him. If the toddler tries to hurt some one or does hurt some one, the parent should pick the child up saying "you have to place safely, if you can't play safely you can't play, come sit with mommy/daddy" and then keep the child. My DD used to throw sand or push occasionally as a toddler, and we'd leave anytime she did those things. A relative of mine had a little girl that would pinch or bite and her dad used to pick her up and keep her with him any time she did those things. Since the parents of your nephew aren't doing anything about it, I'd either bring the child to his parents and say "he's hurting people" or I'd take my kids and leave every single time and say you're not going to watch them be hurt. The parents might not know about things they could do, like time-ins or leaving. It doesn't sound like they are showing him how to touch gentle or even telling him to be gentle. A parent has to show a toddler who tends to play rough how to touch gentle. The parent says something every time the child is rough and strokes his hand or face gently while saying "touch gentle".


----------



## insidevoice (Feb 16, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KABB*
> 
> Our youngest is the same age as him but significantly smaller than he is. Our second youngest is 4 but E is about the same weight as he is. My oldest are 14 and almost 9.
> 
> Also, if the parents are aware of the behavior how would approaching them and asking them to "swap" supervising him work? They obviously know yet continue to walk away and leave him unsupervised. Even when they see the behavior they did little to efficiently correct it...like I said usually it's just a verbal "we don't do that' type deal.


His being a different size shouldn't matter- he is about the same age, and developmentally they don't DO playing nicely together in this age bracket without a lot of help from adults. A four year old, on the other hand should absolutely know not to push and shove and hurt another child. They may lose their temper occasionally, but by that time they do know it is inapropriate behavior and if your four year old reacts that way, though understandable, it is still wrong.

If you don't trust the other parents to help supervise the kids, then you and your husband can swap off. You can involve grandparents. You can enlist your 14 year old and your nine year old. It seems to me that you are simply hoping for these people to do what you want them to in spite of their ongoing demonstration that they aren't going to do it. You can stick with that dynamic or change it. When someone notices him being too rough, remove him from the situation and plop him in one of his parents' laps with an explanation that he's struggling to play appropriately. If that doesn't work for you, avoid the family gatherings.

I see this from the POV of a parent of a big, tall, solid brute of a nearly three year old with some language delays who knocks his little brother over on a regular basis. I get the visceral reaction to seeing your youngest being hurt, but he won't learn unless the family works as a whole to teach him. It is not ok that my son clobbers his brother, but it IS developmentally appropriate and being upset with him would be a waste of energy that is better used to teach him to do things differently.

Also, what you describe of this boy, forceful pushing/throwing/jumping/falling etc is very much sensory-seeking behavior. When you have sensory seeking behaviors, it's not as easy as saying 'don't do this.' They NEED to find an outlet, and they need the input, and the adults have to give them appropriate ways to do that. What if, when he started jumping too hard on people, a pile of couch cushions was made on the floor and he was taught to jump on those instead of on other people? What if, when he started pushing other kids, he was taken outside to a wagon full of heavy blocks and allowed to pull those all over the yard? There are some really simple ways to work through this that don't involve painting this baby as a bad kid whose parents aren't good at parenting him.


----------



## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *insidevoice*
> 
> There are some really simple ways to work through this that don't involve painting this baby as a bad kid whose parents aren't good at parenting him.


In this instance the parents aren't doing a good job parenting. I can understand the frustration of the OP. If a child has a history of aggressive behavior the parents need to be always watching. It's easy for them to step away and relax- it's not their children being hurt.

If the parents are in the room or not, I would stop the two-yr old (gently) every-time with words, distraction or physically lifting toddler off and away from my own kids. You have a right, OP, to keep your kids safe and if these parents aren't doing it , and you have to be around them occasionally, you need to be directly involved.


----------



## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

This kind of thing drives me crazy. The worst part, to me, is that my careful instruction of my own children can be undone in an afternoon or two of subjecting them to this nonsense. As far as your 4yo pushing, too...sure, the 4yo is supposed to know better, but what IS he supposed to do? I am not opposed to my kids being physical to prevent personal injury. They know not to start it, but defense is different.

Anyway, we've been in situations like this before, and what we do is:

1.) Not allow our children out of our sight, and frequently hold the smallest ones to keep them safe.

2.) Limit exposure.

3.) Intervene when necessary, returning the offending child to the parent. If we get a sense that that is not going over well, I start very quietly and firmly talking to the other child.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't see this as being a problem with the toddler at all. Many, many toddlers get aggressive, and there's a range of normal as far as how aggressive. He isnt even 2 yet so my guess is it'll be a while before he outgrows it, and that isn't a cop out, it's just child development.

However, his parents should be tailing him and protecting others from his very normal toddler wrath until he does outgrow it, and their lack of supervision is IMO a very legitimate complaint. You can either talk to them about it, or be right there to protect your kids, or avoid them until he outgrows it, but there is no way to get a not-yet-2-year-old to become a 3-year-old except to wait a year or so.


----------



## KABB (Nov 12, 2009)

I didn't mention size to compare maturity or what not. I mention his size because paired with his physical aggressive behavior his size can significantly hurt my kids, especially by youngest daughter that is significantly smaller than he his.

Regarding your last statement, you may be right in a sense about him having some sort of issue (SPD maybe?) but you don't see what I see. I see his parents not parenting him, not making an effort to correct the behavior, and not giving him other outs. Regardless of WHY he is behaving this way they are not handling it appropriately and because of that he is physically hurting other kids.

I didn't post to play parent or doctor to this boy, to label him or try to diagnosis him. I posted because I am very angry and upset that my kids are getting hurt constantly by him. I posted for advice for no other reason than I want my kids to stop getting hurt by him. It's not as easy as just not letting them play together because we are family, physically close family. If it were I would have stopped them playing together already.

Regardless of

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *insidevoice*
> 
> His being a different size shouldn't matter- he is about the same age, and developmentally they don't DO playing nicely together in this age bracket without a lot of help from adults. A four year old, on the other hand should absolutely know not to push and shove and hurt another child. They may lose their temper occasionally, but by that time they do know it is inapropriate behavior and if your four year old reacts that way, though understandable, it is still wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## KABB (Nov 12, 2009)

Are you a professional in child development? Since you seem to be, I have a question for you. How likely is it that given his parents lack of handling him in a consistent, constructive way he will outgrow his aggressive behavior? If he's never corrected, giving other-constructive- outs, taught how to handle his anger and frustration, or taught positive ways of getting/seeking attention all he'll know/learn is to continue to be aggressive.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I don't see this as being a problem with the toddler at all. Many, many toddlers get aggressive, and there's a range of normal as far as how aggressive. He isnt even 2 yet so my guess is it'll be a while before he outgrows it, and that isn't a cop out, it's just child development.
> 
> However, his parents should be tailing him and protecting others from his very normal toddler wrath until he does outgrow it, and their lack of supervision is IMO a very legitimate complaint. You can either talk to them about it, or be right there to protect your kids, or avoid them until he outgrows it, but there is no way to get a not-yet-2-year-old to become a 3-year-old except to wait a year or so.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Kids do outgrow aggressive behaviors on their own. They begin to be able to read social cues, begin to notice boundaries and people reactions when boundaries aren't respected, begin to become aware of how strong they are. Some kids seem to still be learning these things in preschool and kindergarten. Sometimes just letting the toddler play with mostly older children until they outgrow being aggressive can work with out anything else needed. There were a couple of kids in my DD's 4/5 class that are still working on using their words instead of violence when they are frustrated or annoyed. I've explained to my DD that they are still learning how to be civil and told her that she sometimes had those problems when she was younger. I encourage her to let an adult know but not to use violence herself.

None of this matters because until he outgrows being aggressive you need to protect your children. His parents should be the ones following him and making sure he doesn't hurt people and break stuff. Since they aren't you either have to or you can go home the first time one of your kids gets hurt. The drama will happen after you leave, because you left, and maybe after it happens a few times the parents will start supervising more. If they want to be lazy, they could just put him in a backpack. You could tell your dad that you don't want your children picking up aggressive behavior or to doubt that you will keep them safe so if anyone gets hurt you and your children are going home. You could say you don't want your children to dislike visiting their grandparents or develop negative feelings about it because they are always getting hurt.


----------



## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Kabb, are you now frustrated with some of the posters who are giving advice to you. You asked for advice and now you don't want to hear it? It's fine to disagree, but your tone sounds like you are aggrivated with some of us. It's not a cop out to say that toddler aggression is very normal. Obviously E's parents are copping out since they are not doing anything about it. While there are some toddlers who are more laid back and don't have trouble with this, there are just as many aggressive toddlers with proactive parents who struggle with how to discipline their aggressive toddlers. I know myself and at least 3 other parents who are very proactive and had this trouble with their toddler. It's great that yours never had the problem. I continually shadowed mine, i tried time out, i tried leaving the 'fun' and going home. I even resorted to spanking. You could probably find my old threads about it. She finally matured and the closer she got to three the less it occurred. Now she is fine and loving toward other children. This is absolutely a child development issue, but it doesn't mean the parent should stand by and do nothing. Please try not to be angry with the child. The child cannot help it. I find it odd that your family is so close, but you don't feel comfortable correcting or taking charge of all the cousins. Even with my close friends, (not family) we are all okay with each other correcting and taking care of conflicts. None of us is afraid to let each other know what happened (if it is serious enough) in their absence. If you are supervising, and E's parents aren't there maybe you could sit E on your lap whenever he hurts someone. Do a time in with him. Surely this wouldn't offend E's parents if they walk in and you are holding E on your lap because he was hurting some one. I know you don't want to 'parent' him, but i consider this to be a normal thing any Aunty would do for their nephew. If you are not able or willing to have a reasonable talk with the parents about it, then your only option is to do all the supervising your self until E grow out of it. That means you will end up doing some parenting for E ( Parenting from the Aunty's perspective). I truly posted because i thought you wanted some advice or different perspectives. Since i had an aggressive toddler, i thought i'd throw my 2 cents into the pot. Sorry if i have offended you in any way. You are in a tough spot, and i hope it gets better soon. I was wondering what your dh wants or thinks you should do? Since it is his brother, maybe he could handle it?


----------



## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

I think I would tackle this two ways - assuming you don't want to directly talk to the parents about this issue.

I would resign myself to shadowing this child for a period of time and every single time he gets aggressive I would pick him up saying something like "It's not okay for you to hit, push, whatever other people. You need to use your words and gentle hands" and then I would carry him to his parents, physically hand him to them and say calmly and without judgement - "Your child is hurting other children. He either needs you to come and help to play safely or to you need to occupy him away from others so that no one gets hurt." Wash, rinse, repeat. Teach your older children to do the same. Over time he will either learn that he can't play that way because it's no fun to be constantly interrupted or the parents will get a clue that they need to up their game when your kids are around.

Good luck - it sounds like a drag.

Karen


----------



## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Why is aggression normal toddler behavior?

I have five kids and my sister, three. I haven't witnessed toddler aggression yet, from any of them.


----------



## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anastasiya*
> 
> Why is aggression normal toddler behavior?
> 
> I have five kids and my sister, three. I haven't witnessed toddler aggression yet, from any of them.












Read any child development book and you can learn why. Many toddlers get frustrated and don't know how/cannot monitor their behavior in "appropriate" ways. You are very lucky that the kids you are most familiar with do not have this tendency. I can assure you that toddler aggression is not usually the result of simply poor parenting as has been implied more than once in this thread







.

OP I understand that you mostly saw your post as a vent, but I am disturbed by your continuing insistence to hold hostility toward the boy for his behavior. He's not even two, cut him some slack. As other posters have pointed out he needs the _support_ of the adults around him to help him regulate his behavior. That includes you. It is perfectly appropriate for you to intervene (with love and kindness) when he gets out of control, and teach him about gentleness and try to redirect him.

Talk to his parents too. This would be a much healthier course of action than seething over the behavior of a two year old IMO. If he comes to your house make a child-proof space with limited toy offerings so his destruction is minimized. And then watch him closely if his parents won't. And if you don't want to watch him, and his parents refuse to (once you have actually spoken to them directly about how little their lame attempts as correction are working) then you need to create distance. But first you need to open up a dialogue with your family and stop blaming the poor kid.


----------



## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I guess I should say I know WHY they can be aggressive, but what I was surprised at is that this is considered normal. I agree it has very little to do with parenting....I do know a couple "aggressive" toddlers of wonderful parents, but aggressive toddlers are the exception in my circle of family/friends rather than the rule.

Anyway, back to the OP. I'll stop derailing.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well they often go through an aggressive phase, which doesn't always last long. My olderdaughter hit kids for a bit but only about two months. But in kids I've seen, often the more aggressive, the longer the phase lasts. Also I wonder if language development help, and my older dd was an early talker.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anastasiya*
> 
> Why is aggression normal toddler behavior?
> 
> I have five kids and my sister, three. I haven't witnessed toddler aggression yet, from any of them.


You have five children and not a single one of them has hit, bitten, kicked, or pushed another child ever? I find that very hard to believe. If its true, consider yourself lucky to have such mild mannered children.

Anyway OP, I have a toddler who is somewhat aggressive, and at just shy of 2yo he was TERRIBLE - disciplining him was exhausting as it seemed like the only thing I ever did. He's 27mo now and its MUCH better.

Whenever I got together with other people it seemed pointless to even try discipline - b/c if I had left whenever he hit or pushed, we would have been out the door within 10seconds of arriving. Every time. I tried, but it just didn't work. We didn't do much int he way of play dates for a long time! We did that at the playground near our home, and we would have to leave within 5minutes every.single.time until he grew out of it. (mostly - now we can stay for up to 45min without any issues, and we usually leave for other reasons)

Oddly enough, he's a perfect angel at daycare.


----------



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anastasiya*
> 
> Why is aggression normal toddler behavior?
> 
> I have five kids and my sister, three. I haven't witnessed toddler aggression yet, from any of them.


I think what is meant by "normal" is that you don't have to talk to your pediatrician or have the child evaluated for a developmental disorder. There is a range of "normal" behavior for toddlers. That doesn't mean that it should be ignored, however, it just means that chances are the kid will grow up to be just fine.


----------



## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

I have to chime in here, as I have a good friend w/a very aggressive son. He is 4.5 now, and still has issues w/his aggression. He also has an integrated sensory disorder and food sensitivities, which from my limited knowledge often go hand in hand. Could something like this be going on w/your nephew? I can tell you that I definitely sympathize w/your situation. It is very tricky. You don't want to hurt the parent's feelings or knock their parenting (or lack of), you don't want your kids to get hurt, and you are frustrated. I totally feel ya. In my situation, my friend and I have really worked together when we get the kids together. It takes both of us, plus anyone else big enough to help. Over time, and if he hasn't accidentally gotten something to eat that he reacts to, is has gotten better, but he definitely has his days. And my youngest is not an angel all the time, either, but she is definitely way less aggressive than he is. They are 3 wks apart in age, too, but he is WAY stronger. My dd speaks way better, and sometimes I wonder if that's why her aggression has calmed down so much. When they were little bitty, she was a biter--my first one ever. Then he'd hit, bite, kick, etc. Then she learned to hit from him. We had about a year where everytime they'd come to play, they'd end up leaving when his aggression was out of control. There were plenty of times when they would only be here a half hour before she'd have to take him home. Anyway, for the longest time now we both take turns supervising. If she is nursing her new baby, I'll take over. If I'm in the bathroom or making snacks, she'll take over. Otherwise one of my older kids will help out. Anytime he starts to get aggressive, either he or my dd is removed from the situation. He gets talked to, reminded about using 'gentle hands', and reminded that he'll have to go home if he is unable to calm down. ANYTIME a child is at my home I feel I have to right to step in and if that means talking very sternly to a child, removing that child from a situation, or whathaveyou, I will do it. It is my home and my rules. I feel very strongly, OP, that you should really try to open up some dialog w/the parents of this child. I understand how his aggression can make you frustrated w/him, but this is totally something ALL the adults around should be helping with. If you all are going to be around each other so much, this has to be dealt with. If the parents (and your dh should initiate the conversation, btw) refuse to actively supervise and intervene when necessary, either you and your dh and your older kids can do it, or you'll have to leave/ask the other family to leave. I hope you find a way to resolve this and keep your relationships intact. It's hard, it really is. At least my friend sees the issues and is totally willing to remove her son/intervene/supervise when needed. It really does sound like he could potentially have some sensory issues, and also possibly food issues. How is his diet? It might really be a situation that he could benefit from a doc. visit, esp. to see about food allergies. Good luck, OP.


----------



## hjdmom24 (Mar 1, 2008)

I have an aggressive toddler and can totally see myself acting as your in laws do. Because I don't know what to do when my son acts that way..no matter what I try it just fuels him to continue. He loves the reaction he causes. I would love for someone else to step in and show him nice touches or remove him from the situation for a bit because he will listen to them and not go into a monster tantrum like he does when I say it. So maybe they just don't know what to do and if you step in and model for them the reaction you would like to see it will help them..or maybe you will see that what you think they should be doing is completely ineffective and that's why they are not doing it. (As for me I have avoided social situations that include my son for over a year now..not fun but as he gets closer to 3 he is less aggressive.)


----------



## Jaimee (Jun 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shami*
> 
> To me, this is more of a hey, parents! come watch your kid! issue than an issue with the kid himself. Some toddlers are really rough. Mine went through a year of pinching which turned to biting. I had to shadow her constantly and even with shadowing all i had to do was look away for a second and she'd pinch/bite. Ugg it was horrible as a parent to have YOUR kid doing that! Toddlers are going to push, kick, scream, pinch, bite, bang, etc. .... Most parents of the toddler who is hurting others feel really bad and embarrassed even though it really is a normal toddler behavior. Again, your real issue is that you feel the parents aren't watching him or doing anything about it.


I have a very spirited dd who went through the biting, pinching, hitting, throwing, kicking, pushing phase for one and a half years. It was horrible. I was a first time parent trying to practice gentle discipline and I had no idea what to do with my child. We were attending AP playgroups regularly and no one knew what to do with my child. I read, read, read everything I could get my hands on. I tried new technique after new technique. Nothing worked to correct the behavior. The only thing I could do was shadow her every move and try my best to prevent her from hurting others. It was exhausting. It was frustrating. It was hell. I was embarrassed, I was mortified, I was sad. I knew my dd to be a very special little person, but all of her great qualities were over shadowed by her need to physically interact with her friends.

Now, I do not know how your in-laws are feeling or what they have tried, but I do think that it is very much worth a conversation IF you want to maintain a relationship with them and your nephew. They may be so exhausted, so fed up that they just cannot figure out what to do. Or they may think that what is happening is fine (a "boys will be boys" attitude) and that you're fine with it since you haven't said anything directly yet. The best thing that someone could have done for me would have been to approach me with sympathy and constructive ideas.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssh*
> 
> Being aggressive is normal toddler behavior. It sounds like the child is just trying to play or get your children to play with him. He may not realize he is being rough. Lot's of toddlers, even ones that aren't aggressive haven't figured out boundaries yet. Even some preschoolers deal with frustration by being aggressive. Some toddlers don't play well with peers until they are much older. Saying it's not the kids fault or that he will grow out of it is not a cop out, it's just saying that the responsibility lies with the parents.


Yes. Some of us are blessed with kids that never hurt anyone or anything. Some of us are blessed with spirited children that have a constant need to be physical. These are just variations of normal. It is not a cop-out and the quicker parents can realize this, the sooner a resolution can be found. I'm not saying this if FAIR, but if you would like to work with the situation to make it better for everyone right now, then you may have to be the one to pick up some books and come up with ideas. I would suggest starting with Raising Your Spirited Child. Otherwise, you may very well have to wait until your nephew turns 3 or even 4 before he can better control himself. My dd is now 4.5 and I haven't had a situation with her hurting a peer in a long time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *insidevoice*
> 
> His being a different size shouldn't matter- he is about the same age, and developmentally they don't DO playing nicely together in this age bracket without a lot of help from adults.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything said here. I know you said you don't want to diagnose your nephew, but the reality of the situation may be that he does have sensory seeking behaviors (a form of Sensory Processing Disorder). If this is indeed the case, he may need extra help to deal with his impulses. A good place to start is reading Sensational Kids. We sought out an evaluation for my dd and while she had many of the red flags and the OT thought she could benefit from occupational therapy, she didn't make progress with their techniques. So, in her case, she does not have SPD, but is highly spirited. Knowing all this information, however, and going through the process has allowed me to understand her better and come up with new strategies for dealing with her behavior. It is a learning process for us all.

All this being said, I can feel your frustration and anger. I get it. I do. Especially if your in-laws are simply choosing not to educate themselves or try anything new. I just strongly believe that parents and especially families need to help each other out, support each other, and work together to find solutions for the good of everyone. Compassionate parenting for a compassionate world.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anastasiya*
> 
> Well, I guess I should say I know WHY they can be aggressive, but what I was surprised at is that this is considered normal. I agree it has very little to do with parenting....I do know a couple "aggressive" toddlers of wonderful parents, but aggressive toddlers are the exception in my circle of family/friends rather than the rule.
> 
> Anyway, back to the OP. I'll stop derailing.


I've been working with toddlers for over 25 years, and have only run across a very, very few aggressive toddlers. I don't find it common at all.


----------



## Jaimee (Jun 7, 2007)

Somehow this double posted... edited to delete.


----------



## Nobody123 (Apr 15, 2008)

OP, I can totally sympathize. We had friends (not family, so not the same, I know) who had a very aggressive two year old. I don't hold anything against him, but I can honestly say that he was tough to be around. I never felt like I could relax, and my kids were older - 5 and 7. It was frustrating that I had to sit and supervise my kids carefully as they played just so they didn't get tormented by this two year old, while everyone else was just kicking back and relaxing.

At one point he bit my daughter on the face hard enough to leave a nasty bruise that lasted all week, I saw the whole thing and she did not instigate it, she was just bending down to pick up a toy that he suddenly decided that he wanted. (Her own toy) We decided to avoid this family after that, but then we were missing out on the entire group of friends, because they all made plans together and we kept bowing out. (This is similar to the family part you deal with. It is tough to know the entire family is getting together for holidays, birthdays and what not and you are not) The girls were sad and missing their other friends, and we were missing our friends, so we eventually began joining the gatherings again.

I do not condone or recommend this, but my husband finally told the boy's dad that he was instructing our girls to hit back from now on, and wouldn't you know, his parents suddenly took an interest in keeping an eye on him and correcting his behavior. (They were very lax before, assuming all of the other parents would be watching while they relaxed) Of course I wouldn't instruct my 7 year old to hit a two year old, or any other child, but when they are being tightly strangled by anyone, I don't care how big or little they are, I am ok with an elbow to the ribs or whatever they have to do to get themselves out of a bad situation. I am their advocate until they can advocate for themselves, and I don't want them to think for one second that I am not protecting them. It is so very hard to be compassionate when your kids have bruises on their bodies.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I've been working with toddlers for over 25 years, and have only run across a very, very few aggressive toddlers. I don't find it common at all.


A lot of parents who have 2 year olds that just aren't behaving appropriately keep them home until they grow out of their troublesome phase. My DD was friendly aggressive. She wanted to hug and kiss other kids. She wanted to wrestle. She got very excited and was overwhelming for many, maybe most, of her peers. If we were outside it was usually fine, but indoors she was too intense, too high energy and other children seemed overwhelmed. So we stopped doing indoor group activities. Hey we didn't do restaurants for about a year. She occasionally threw sand or pushed, both were trying to play actions. We always left the moment she wasn't being safe to play with. I didn't put her in preschool until she was developmentally ready to listen to someone else and had started reading social cues abit better, right before she turned 4. So if a lot of us are keeping our little ones who aren't able to play well with their peers at home or with older kids then of course you aren't seeing our children.

In my DD's preschool classes, a 3's class and a 4/5 class, we've come across 3 very aggressive kids, 4 if you count a second grade sibling. Hey that's 3 out of 34 kids. And these are kids over 3 years old when many have outgrown aggressiveness. It's nice you haven't had to deal with many aggressive toddlers, but that doesn't mean it isn't normal developmentally. The books on human development all say it's normal too, not just some parents here on a forum.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I've been working with toddlers for over 25 years, and have only run across a very, very few aggressive toddlers. I don't find it common at all.


Hmmm. I wonder if this is a case of differing definitions? My children have been fairly well-behaved, but I haven't met any toddlers (including my own) I'd allow to play with a baby without an adult right next to them, for example. My 19mo is in daycare, and the teachers are constantly intervening to keep them from taking toys from one another, stepping on one another, throwing toys, pushing one another, screeching at one another, etc. Sometimes their actions are out of anger or frustration, other times not. I can't imagine that that is uncommon.

I mean, all animals teach their young what behavior is acceptable, and all young animals learn the consequences of their actions. Maybe we are defining aggression differently, but I have met very few toddlers who DON'T display some aggressive behavior.


----------



## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnygir1*
> 
> Hmmm. I wonder if this is a case of differing definitions? My children have been fairly well-behaved, but I haven't met any toddlers (including my own) I'd allow to play with a baby without an adult right next to them, for example. My 19mo is in daycare, and the teachers are constantly intervening to keep them from taking toys from one another, stepping on one another, throwing toys, pushing one another, screeching at one another, etc. Sometimes their actions are out of anger or frustration, other times not. I can't imagine that that is uncommon.
> 
> I mean, all animals teach their young what behavior is acceptable, and all young animals learn the consequences of their actions. Maybe we are defining aggression differently, but I have met very few toddlers who DON'T display some aggressive behavior.


I wonder this too. I consider my DD aggressive because she takes toys away from other toddlers. She'll hit or push if other kids get into her space, but it's usually "provoked". She never just runs up to a kid and hits or bites them. But I still consider her behavior to be aggressive.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I sympathize with you OP b/c my DD is a very gentle toddler and gets "beat up" a lot by other kids. I just try to watch DD like a hawk when an aggressive kid is around and I protect her the best I can. I will usually just try to distract the other kid if I notice them about to do something aggressive. If it is real bad I will just start really playing something fun with the aggressor so they are entertained, b/c well they are just babies too. I have never had an issue with a mom for playing with their kid KWIM?

Yes natural consequences ect are important too but some kids do just incessantly hit/bite/kick ect and I am not going to have my DD have bruises and blood b/c some baby keeps biting her and their mom is doing nothing...(and yes she has had them all!)


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> I've been working with toddlers for over 25 years, and have only run across a very, very few aggressive toddlers. I don't find it common at all.


I wonder what situation you deal with toddlers in. My DS can be very aggressive when I'm the one supervising, but I never get anything other than pure glowing reports from his daycare teachers. He doesn't push, bite, hit or kick while he's at daycare - apparently he saves it all for me.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

OP, my inclination is to try talking to your relatives about their ds. Not in an accusing way, obviously, but as "here's the problem, how can we solve it?" If they aren't responsive I think I'd lay it on the line for them with "I will not let your son hurt my kids. I will not hurt your son, but if need be I will be moving him to keep him from hurting people."


----------



## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> I wonder what situation you deal with toddlers in. My DS can be very aggressive when I'm the one supervising, but I never get anything other than pure glowing reports from his daycare teachers. He doesn't push, bite, hit or kick while he's at daycare - apparently he saves it all for me.


My friend's son does this, too. If his mom leaves him here w/me, he is 99% angel. The instant she comes home, he gets insane. One exception was the other day when he hit/kicked/spit/bucked for 20 minutes until he was gasping "WATER" and clutching his little throat. We have alot of environmental allergens floating around like crazy though, and we've all been affected by it. His behavior has been nutso because of it, or it was triggered by food, but we haven't figured out which food it might have been. I had to pick him up, remove him from the room, take him into my room and lock the door. I stayed across the room from him (because he freaked if I got near) until he finally "came back". He gets like he's not even here...I've had another child here before who was the opposite. She'd completely freak because her mom went to work/wasn't there for a nap, etc., but that was due to domestic issues between her parents.

OP, I've been thinking about this thread alot and do hope that you talk to your dh about this thread and come up w/some ideas about confronting the parents.


----------



## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> You have five children and not a single one of them has hit, bitten, kicked, or pushed another child ever? I find that very hard to believe. If its true, consider yourself lucky to have such mild mannered children.
> 
> ...


The only one who could be called aggressive is my youngest son, who "bites" his dad and me for play and likes to run up and tackle us for fun. I don't consider that aggression since it's not done in anger or frustration, and he doesn't do it to other kids.


----------



## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*
> 
> If the parents are in the room or not, I would stop the two-yr old (gently) every-time with words, distraction or physically lifting toddler off and away from my own kids. You have a right, OP, to keep your kids safe and if these parents aren't doing it , and you have to be around them occasionally, you need to be directly involved.


I agree with this, and if I were in your shoes, OP, I would directly intervene whenever possible during a kid-fight/altercation.

Now I am not a super-confrontational person, but the kind of parenting you're describing w/ your BiL and SiL drives me absolutely nuts. And it's not fair to ANYONE in the family. I've seen something similar happen in my own family which is how I think I can relate. Next time there's going to be a family get-together, maybe you can address it up-front with your BiL and/or his wife. Phrase it something like, I'm looking forward to our get-together, but I'm a little concerned about the kids because of what happened last time (describe the times that your DD was hurt, etc.). Talk form a place of caring about your nephew as well as your kids, and ackowledging that your own kids' retaliatory actions also cause problems, too. I think if you approach it in that way, your SiL is less likely to get defensive because you're not coming to her and saying "hey, your kid is a problem", you know? And also you could frame the conversation in terms of ackowledging that it's developmentally normal for two year-old boys to be.....erm, spirited....but that you just don't want the kids to get hurt like last time, the time before, etc. And then ask what she thinks y'all can do about this.

This is honestly what I would do if I were in your situation. You have to just say it right out, but there are ways you can do that that will also protect your in-laws self esteem when it comes to parenting and not make them get imediately defensive or resentful.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnygir1*
> 
> Hmmm. I wonder if this is a case of differing definitions? My children have been fairly well-behaved, but I haven't met any toddlers (including my own) I'd allow to play with a baby without an adult right next to them, for example. My 19mo is in daycare, and the teachers are constantly intervening to keep them from taking toys from one another, stepping on one another, throwing toys, pushing one another, screeching at one another, etc. Sometimes their actions are out of anger or frustration, other times not. I can't imagine that that is uncommon.


Those things are common and expected. But, what the OP is describing is different.

ETA (because the computer ate half my post... I'm sure it was me.. but, I'm blaming the computer.)

Anyway, if I saw this little boy in a group, I might not think his behavior is aggressive at all. But, when she was telling her story, I was picturing a tiny little cage fighter barreling around knocking everybody over. My perception of what she's saying doesn't sound normal.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Those things are common and expected. But, what the OP is describing is different.


The things the op mentioned seem to me to be common and expected:

Throwing things: My 19 mo throws things all.the.time. He thinks it is fun and funny and doesn't (of course) differentiate between things that can break or hurt someone and things that are okay to throw. We have to teach him that. He also throws things sometimes when he is angry or frustrated.

Breaking toys: He breaks things too, way more than my dd ever did. If there is a moving part on something, for example, he might just try to pry it off or bend it in the wrong direction. When I let him use an old laptop of mine (that doesn't work) I looked over after a few minutes and he had pried off 20 keys.

Pushing: If I didn't intervene, my children would push each other down a lot more than they do -- we have to teach them how to be polite and gentle with each other. I think it is totally normal to push someone down when you want their toy or to see how they react.

I really don't see anything abnormal in the toddler's behavior from what the op wrote. As others have suggested, the problem appears to lie with the response (or lack of response) of the adults.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnygir1*
> 
> The things the op mentioned seem to me to be common and expected:


I edited my post abotu vthis oen<---seriously? I have no idea how that happened either.

(I edited my post above this)


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Okay, point taken. I do still think that it is an adult supervision issue at its root.


----------



## mom2tatum (Mar 14, 2007)

I'm genuinely a little shocked with all the responses from different angles why this discussion hasn't taken more of a focus on this kid's communication skills in any way. He isn't even two. If he doesn't have enough words to verbally express himself, he will use his hands. That's what a toddler would do in those situations. OP, you seem really upset at your nephew. And I do understand being frustrated...but you cannot change the parents, your family, or the child. You can only change your own choices, ya know? The way you manage those situations for your family. Be a model for your children, this is a great opportunity to teach them understanding and how to deal with frustrating situations. Make a plan based in practicality and compassion. Usually if you make a choice how to handle it, and stick to that consistently, you won't be so frustrated. It cannot feel good to be harboring such negativity towards a one year old. You also seem quite angry with responses given here...I know its easy to feel defensive about your own feelings you originally shared and want to feel justified, etc. but really, this sounds like you don't want to try to help this child or help the parents help him. We hear ya on it being frustrating. He's obviously feeling frustrated. As a parent and an adult who is often around other toddlers/kids, I always try to assess how a child is feeling and what he/she is trying to communicate instead of focusing on the behavior and how to control it. When they are young, the majority of it is communication and wanting acknowledgment (for sometimes VERY simple things we adults are overlooking). It does require a little shift in attitude sometimes and some thought, and know it won't always be easy, but you could totally end up building a kick ass relationship with this nephew of yours because you helped him figure out how to better communicate. Be a model for his parents, yk? I know it is hard when you don't have kids that behaved this way, but really what it is - maybe your kids didn't have trouble communicating like he is? For whatever the reason.

I have been surrounded by young children for the past 12 yrs, and I think some phase of aggression is normal in TODDLERS (1 and 2 yo) totally based on lack of communication skills and their building frustration. There isn't an easy fix - but understanding the cause and where the kid is coming from can be very helpful in preventing and knowing how to address the child. Punishing a child this age is simply not going to work short or long term nor is it helping him with the root cause...would be emotionally unhealthy IMO.

I always used to think other parents were nuts for saying toddler aggression was normal because my first was SO not and I think looking back on myself 3 or 4 yrs ago, I looked down on them and their parents. :blush Not that my kid was perfect, but he understood hitting was wrong and wouldn't ever think to hurt another child...AND he WAS a late talker, so I didn't get it. He figured out other ways to communicate with our help and understanding, he never felt frustrated. But now after having a second, I GET IT. He is a different child - overall happier and friendlier actually. BUT, big but. He hits his older brother. He just turned 2 and this started a few months ago. Up until then, I kept saying how he is following the same communication path his brother did. Hardly any words yet, but communicating well without them and not frustrated. Then, it happened. He started hitting his brother who is almost 5. Granted, he started day care half days and he started having so many more thoughts than he could express, I think all at the same time. But, its happening. And I honestly CANNOT be there to guard him every single second. So we are dealing with it as it happens, and sometimes well, sometimes not. Yes, sometimes it causes real pain - and that sucks. But my older son loves his little brother and knows he is not intending on hurting him, we've taught him to be careful not to tease or use mean tone and also how to anticipate it coming and to protect himself. He knows its a phase, he understands it is already lessening as he acquires more words (that we give him), he sees how we talk to the little one, and we all will be happy when its over.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Oh, sorry, I thought that talking to the nephew was an obvious part of removing him from the situation.







Okay, to be clear, I think you should let his parents know that if he moves to hurt your kids, you'll be stopping it from happening, and then you need to be prepared to stop him hitting or whatever and then catch him and use one of the lovely GD phrases like "gentle touching" "you really want the toy, let's tell dd you want a turn. 'DD nephew wants a turn when you're done.'" etc etc etc.

Does nephew get chances to rough house with his parents? A lot of parents aren't good with that kind of thing, or don't do it at all. If he's not getting any wrestling/tumbling play at home, it might help matters if you've got a teen in the family with good control who can be a monkey bars for awhile. Or you or your dh could maybe do it? In our family, dh is the one who generally handles letting kids knock him down and scooping them up into the air, because he's got the physical strength and endurance to sustain it for awhile.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mom2tatum*
> 
> I'm genuinely a little shocked with all the responses from different angles why this discussion hasn't taken more of a focus on this kid's communication skills in any way. He isn't even two. If he doesn't have enough words to verbally express himself, he will use his hands. That's what a toddler would do in those situations.


Oh man, this is SUCH a good point! I always forget that most almost 2yo's don't talk very much, b/c my ds talks like a 4yo right now (he's 27mo), and by 20mo was speaking in short sentences. He's still pretty rough.

I also wanted to agree with mom2tatum about the the rough housing. It's really helpful to my ds if we rough house with him, and teach OK ways to play physically. Tickling for example is an OK thing in our house until the other person say's "Stop" so he'll tickle me, or the other way around. It's really fun, and I've seen the difference between when I started rough housing with him (he didn't know when to stop, had little control) to now, and he has started respecting me saying "stop" and understands more of when its time to do something else. Outside has also been really helpful - if he's worn out from running around and getting dirty he's not as likely to be physically aggressive with me or anyone else.


----------



## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

True true the reason that toddlers are more aggressive is because they don't have the language skills to express what they want. This is why they usually grow out of it as they get closer to three. I still think the op's main issue is feeling like the parents are not doing their job, and knowing how to handle the parents while keeping her own kids safe. The op has gotten some great ideas. I hope she comes back to give us an update!


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I think some how I missed the fact that this little boy is only not yet 2...I had it in my head that he was closer to 4...hmmm weird. I have to agree that aggressiveness at this age CAN be normal, but that is WHY parents are not allowed to take a lackadaisical attitude towards their children when at gatherings with their familys and friends where other small people are. They HAVE to be on top of the behavior at all times. It's their job...and little "we don't do that." now and then is not sufficient. It is our job to protect other people from our little monkeys.

As a PP suggested I would simply swoop the child gently up and deliver him to mom and dad. Remind them that it is their job to watch their kid. That two is too young to leave unattended in the care of even a 14 yo if that 14 yo has two almost 2s a 4 and a 9yo in their charge. I would not get into the direct parenting and teaching of the kid, because as I have experienced it allows them to see you as the designated driver of childcare. So while they all happily enjoy an evening of adult conversation and wine, you get branded the Babysitter and spend your evening wiping down drooly chins and breaking up fights between kids that aren't even yours. And they don't even pay you for it! Plus when you use a methodology they don't like, they get to be pissed off with you for unsolicited parenting. Not worth it!

Yes, violent aggression in the under three set it commonplace, but it also needs to be dealt with effectively by the parents.

OP, I don't see any anger for the boy from you. I see the frustration you feel for his parents. You want them to acknowledge their role in the get togethers, that you should not be the only one who keeps on eye on him, that your children too deserve a safe place to just be without worrying about being blindsided by a rough housing tot. If you're like me, you want them to put down the book, or the glass of wine, and watch their kid, just like you watch yours, get involved, engage with him, instead of sitting there like you don't even HAVE a kid, or acting like he's so innocent and your kids are the one with the problem if they can't handle a little rough and tumble play.

I hear you! But as a PP suggested before, you can't make other people act the way you want, you can only control how you act. So if they choose not to actively watch their son while you are all together, either keep your families apart until E is older and has out grown this phase, or work on protecting your kids as best as you can while you are all together. It's good to vent, now turn that anger into action and get your needs for safety and respect and fairness met.


----------



## Thing1Thing2 (Apr 30, 2008)

Interesting thread. I'd like to hear a little more about SPD and aggression.

My 3 yo DS is the most sensitive, cuddly, gentle guy, yet at times he gets really aggressive, pushing, biting and kicking. I've only seen him do this to adults, and he's pretty strong.

He also has food allergies, and Im pretty sure it's related - just not sure how and when...

I like the idea of giving him other things to do such as pulling a wagon full of bricks. Don't mean to hijack - but are there any other resources about this problem in particular?


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Check out the Feingold diet. It's aimed at eliminating things that are aggression triggers and a few mamas around here have had wonderful results with it.

I'd also search through the Special Needs Forum for SPD and see what kind of things have been helpful to other kids. You could also post about your ds. I'd recommend asking about it there to get more specific, been there done that, information.


----------



## Thing1Thing2 (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for the resources Sapphire Chan. Had no idea the Feingold diet helped with aggression - It will help me pinpoint the offending foods.


----------



## Lazy Gardens (Dec 11, 2008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Karenwith4*

! - I would resign myself to shadowing this child for a period of time and every single time he gets aggressive I would pick him up saying something like "It's not okay for you to hit, push, whatever other people. You need to use your words and gentle hands" and then I would carry him to his parents, physically hand him to them and say calmly and without judgement - "Your child is hurting other children. He either needs you to come and help to play safely or to you need to occupy him away from others so that no one gets hurt." Wash, rinse, repeat.

2 - Teach your older children to do the same. Over time he will either learn that he can't play that way because it's no fun to be constantly interrupted or the parents will get a clue that they need to up their game when your kids are around.

^^^^^ For the win! You get eleventy-seven internets.

We had to do this with a niece who had fast fists and a short fuse from about 2 1/2 until she was almost 4. We all got pretty good at separating her from the object of her wrath and doing a modified fireman carry to the sidelines. She had to take a short "CHILL OUT TIME" (set with a timer) and then could start over.

If it happened when she was a visitor, she got removed from the house and we would ring the doorbell and start over.

If you are consistent, the incidents should tail off fairly quickly. If you are inconsistent, expect them to stay the same or increase.


----------



## Lazy Gardens (Dec 11, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BonnieNova*
> 
> My 3 yo DS is the most sensitive, cuddly, gentle guy, yet at times he gets really aggressive, pushing, biting and kicking. I've only seen him do this to adults, and he's pretty strong.
> 
> I like the idea of giving him other things to do such as pulling a wagon full of bricks.


How about martial arts classes? If he's only doing it to adults, he apparently wants to vent some aggression and figures that they can defend themselves. Toddler classes are available in many places.


----------



## mosomers (Mar 5, 2008)

You've gotten tons of advice so I'll let that part be. But I did want to commiserate with you. I totally feel your pain and I understand your emotions. All of them. Just reading this thread raised my blood pressure considerably as I thought about my own similar situation. I also have a nephew (4.5 yo) who is...difficult. Not in all the same areas (though I know some of the aggressive-with-parents-who-do-squat ones too. Frustrating!), but even though I know that the parents play a considerable role in the behaviors of the child, it's really hard not to feel some disdain for my nephew. It's hard to see him being unfair and selfish and bossy and screamy (boy, can he scream!) and then to have MY kids scolded when they've done nothing (nephew screams, BIL says, "Guys, lets not scream at each other." Yeah, that was verbatim. Or how about nephew throws blocks at my son and BIL picks up nephew and sends my son to time out. Huh?). BIL consistently disciplines my kids in much harsher ways than he disciplines his own kid even when I'm standing RIGHT THERE and he knows I'm a highly proactive parent. Bugs the heck outta me. I'm not saying I'm right in how angry and agitated I get at my BIL or in the distaste I feel for my (mostly) innocent nephew--far from it--but I do certainly understand those feelings! I understand wanting to hang out with family and not be left out because someone else's choices push you away. I understand the stress and anxiety, the mama bear feeling, that comes with every family function. I understand the red-faced, heart-pounding anger that boils up, clouding your judgment and making you wonder if now would be a good time to say something or if you are too angry and irrational. I understand wanting to say the right things at the right time to make a difference, not knowing what or when that might be, but also wanting to preserve the relationship. Meanwhile the relationship, for you at least, is becoming increasingly tainted. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place!! It's sad when the parents' parenting (or lack thereof) creates a dynamic in which it requires effort to like a little kid. But we're only human....


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mosomers*
> 
> You've gotten tons of advice so I'll let that part be. But I did want to commiserate with you. I totally feel your pain and I understand your emotions. All of them. Just reading this thread raised my blood pressure considerably as I thought about my own similar situation. I also have a nephew (4.5 yo) who is...difficult. Not in all the same areas (though I know some of the aggressive-with-parents-who-do-squat ones too. Frustrating!), but even though I know that the parents play a considerable role in the behaviors of the child, it's really hard not to feel some disdain for my nephew. It's hard to see him being unfair and selfish and bossy and screamy (boy, can he scream!) and then to have MY kids scolded when they've done nothing (nephew screams, BIL says, "Guys, lets not scream at each other." Yeah, that was verbatim. Or how about nephew throws blocks at my son and BIL picks up nephew and sends my son to time out. Huh?). BIL consistently disciplines my kids in much harsher ways than he disciplines his own kid even when I'm standing RIGHT THERE and he knows I'm a highly proactive parent. Bugs the heck outta me. I'm not saying I'm right in how angry and agitated I get at my BIL or in the distaste I feel for my (mostly) innocent nephew--far from it--but I do certainly understand those feelings! I understand wanting to hang out with family and not be left out because someone else's choices push you away. I understand the stress and anxiety, the mama bear feeling, that comes with every family function. I understand the red-faced, heart-pounding anger that boils up, clouding your judgment and making you wonder if now would be a good time to say something or if you are too angry and irrational. I understand wanting to say the right things at the right time to make a difference, not knowing what or when that might be, but also wanting to preserve the relationship. Meanwhile the relationship, for you at least, is becoming increasingly tainted. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place!! It's sad when the parents' parenting (or lack thereof) creates a dynamic in which it requires effort to like a little kid. But we're only human....


Tell BIL in front of your kids "*I* will handle disciplining my *own* children."


----------



## bunnielly (Apr 2, 2011)

I haven't read all the replies but here is what I've done in the same situation. After he hurts your child, ask your child if he/she wants to play with him anymore. If your child says no, then respect that and don't let them play together. I then would have my child say to him, "I do not want to play with you until you stop hurting me". I would bring books or special toys for my child to play near me. I kept an eye on my child and if the other child approached, I'd ask my child if she/he were ready to play. If the answer was no, then I'd say "she/he does not want to play with you until you stop hurting her/him". I would then redirect the other child.

I see the situation as a way of empowering my children. Their feelings and boundaries are respected and I follow their lead. It's about showing my kids that I respect their wishes and that I will protect them.

You've been given advise on how to handle him which I think is good. He's young but not so young that he will understand that when he hits, children don't want to play with him.


----------



## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bunnielly*
> 
> I haven't read all the replies but here is what I've done in the same situation. After he hurts your child, ask your child if he/she wants to play with him anymore. If your child says no, then respect that and don't let them play together. I then would have my child say to him, "I do not want to play with you until you stop hurting me". I would bring books or special toys for my child to play near me. I kept an eye on my child and if the other child approached, I'd ask my child if she/he were ready to play. If the answer was no, then I'd say "she/he does not want to play with you until you stop hurting her/him". I would then redirect the other child.
> 
> ...


I am not sure that a child who is not yet two has the cognitive skills or emotional maturity to understand this approach, and I'd be concerned about teaching my children a lack of empathy.

While helping children establish and respect healthy boundaries is important, it feels a bit like shunning this child in this scenario versus helping all the children state what they need and working towards a solution.

I really believe that this issue is more about the involvement or lack of it with the parents versus an issue with the child.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karenwith4*
> 
> I am not sure that a child who is not yet two has the cognitive skills or emotional maturity to understand this approach, and I'd be concerned about teaching my children a lack of empathy.
> 
> ...


Ditto. It actually feels pretty passive-aggressive to me to ask one child in front of another if he/she wants to continue to play with the other (apparently hoping the answer will be no). Especially if you believe the other child can understand what is going on in that conversation.

That, of course, is different than helping your child navegate a situation in which he/she states independently that he/she doesn't want to play with/be around another family member.


----------



## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

I didn't read all the responses but want to respond to the OP. I think it is 100% your right to keep your kids away from another child who is repeatedly physically hurting them- even if he is family. If I had a cousin beating up on my baby or kid of any age, I would not let my ds be in that situation if the other kids parents are not stepping in. I think you should have a talk with the mom of agressive kid when no kids are around- and say

"-listen, I really want us to be able to hang out, and some niceties-however- having my kids be hurt by your kid is unacceptable to me. I see that you are overwhelmed with him. If you would like some advice, since I have parented 4 of them, I would be happy to shre my ideas with you. IF you are not willing to do anything about the situation, then I would like to either have your permission to discipline your kid, or request that we not hang out while he is acting like this."

so in other words, try to broach the subject with the mom from the approachof- my kids are getting hurt and I need to figure out how to make that not happen. Ask her if she wants advice before giving it, and then maybe try to brainstorm together to find a workable situation. IF she is not wlling to do anything differently, then I think you should just stop hanging out with them. you can't just let another kid harm yours just because he is young and family! good luck


----------



## Melissa Dodson (Nov 15, 2012)

I babysit my inlaws children and the two year old is constantly attacking my child pinching her back and face. One day they were playing in their room and I heard my two year old screaming I walked in and found the two year old I watch on top of my daughter with her finger in her mouth pulling at her check. She had a little blood on her lip. I pick her up off my child and sat her on the couch in time out . Her parents are like well you know she 's two but how much more should i take . I'm supposed to protect my child too. I'm afraid it will cause family issues this is my husbands family. Is this behavior continues and don't want to watch them anymore.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melissa Dodson*
> 
> I babysit my inlaws children and the two year old is constantly attacking my child pinching her back and face. One day they were playing in their room and I heard my two year old screaming I walked in and found the two year old I _watch on top of my daughter with her finger in her mouth pulling at her check. She had a little blood on her lip. I pick her up off my child and sat her on the couch in time out . Her parents are like well you know she 's two but how much more should i take . I'm supposed to protect my child too. I'm afraid it will cause family issues this is my husbands family. Is this behavior continues and don't want to watch them anymore._


How old is your daughter? It sounds like she's even younger? Kids that age most likely need to be playing near you so you can keep them safe. Toddlers can't really play off by themselves. You shouldn't watch her if you're feeling resentful, but this sounds mainly like a supervision issue to me.

If you don't want to watch her anymore, you can probably find a gentle way to tell them so as not to create family issues. Maybe that the two kids have a hard time together and you need to concentrate on your own child at the moment? It sounds like you're in an awkward spot as far as family politics go.


----------

