# Oh please help - we can't go out in public anymore



## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

So DD is 3.5 yrs old. I know, three is hard. But this has been escalating and escalating. I don't think what she's doing is necessarily bad behaviour, it is an inability to handle her own strong emotions.

DD had issues at a lunch today with a bunch of moms and kids. Things escalated, she was screaming out of control, I had the baby slung against my chest so I couldn't hold DD very well to calm her. All I could do is get us out of the restaurant as fast as I could. As we left (DD screaming the whole time) the entire restaurant clapped and yelled stuff at us like "Finally!"









My mother visited a couple days ago and told me that DD is "just like me" meaning difficult and naughty. Yet in the same conversation told me that DD's "behavioural issues" are because I am a bad mom. (Thanks!)

What gets DD going is a problem with letting go. We can't throw anything out, we can't let the water out of the bathtub, we can't flush the toilet without tears and stress over losing whatever it is we are getting rid of. DH and I have taken to removing the trash, flushing, draining after DD is asleep at night because it just isn't worth the awful emotions she experiences.

Today's restaurant experience started with her thinking I hadn't gotten enough sauce from her plate into the to-go box, kept asking me to scrape more up, didn't want to leave even a speck. Then one of her friends and his mom got up to leave and she just lost it. Didn't want them to leave until she'd said goodbye, didn't want to say goodbye because then they'd leave.

I'm just so upset. I know onlookers were thinking I should punish her, but what she was feeling was real and intense was was no way meant to manipulate me, she was protecting herself.

Please, as anyone ever been up against this? Does anyone have any advice? I just can't go on like this, I can't let this happen to DD anymore.


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
So DD is 3.5 yrs old. I know, three is hard. But this has been escalating and escalating. I don't think what she's doing is necessarily bad behaviour, it is an inability to handle her own strong emotions.

DD had issues at a lunch today with a bunch of moms and kids. Things escalated, she was screaming out of control, I had the baby slung against my chest so I couldn't hold DD very well to calm her. All I could do is get us out of the restaurant as fast as I could. *As we left (DD screaming the whole time) the entire restaurant clapped and yelled stuff at us like "Finally!"*









My mother visited a couple days ago and told me that DD is "just like me" meaning difficult and naughty. Yet in the same conversation told me that DD's "behavioural issues" are because I am a bad mom. (Thanks!)

What gets DD going is a problem with letting go. We can't throw anything out, we can't let the water out of the bathtub, we can't flush the toilet without tears and stress over losing whatever it is we are getting rid of. DH and I have taken to removing the trash, flushing, draining after DD is asleep at night because it just isn't worth the awful emotions she experiences.

Today's restaurant experience started with her thinking I hadn't gotten enough sauce from her plate into the to-go box, kept asking me to scrape more up, didn't want to leave even a speck. Then one of her friends and his mom got up to leave and she just lost it. Didn't want them to leave until she'd said goodbye, didn't want to say goodbye because then they'd leave.

I'm just so upset. I know onlookers were thinking I should punish her, but what she was feeling was real and intense was was no way meant to manipulate me, she was protecting herself.

Please, as anyone ever been up against this? Does anyone have any advice? I just can't go on like this, I can't let this happen to DD anymore.

Boldis mine. I am horrified that adults would act this way! I am embarrassed for them and sad for you and your DD. I'm so sorry, Mama.








I don't have any advice, I just could not read that and not respond. Hugs to you and your DD. I am sure that you will get some great advice. I have not dealt with these particular problems, but I know that *many* have and you are definitely not alone.


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Oh, thank you. Just an understanding ear (computer screen) helps enormously. I'm still in tears over it, it was so awful.


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## RunAround (Feb 12, 2009)

You have one of those spirited children on your hands! The good news is that spirited children can become creative, courageous, delightful adults. The bad news is that you might feel you won't survive to see it!







Please try not to let the utter and complete rudeness of those strangers get to you...too much.

Have you read The Spirited Child and the Happiest Toddler on the Block? Those were useful in helping me get inside my oldest son's head a bit.

I have a guideline for coaching my kids that might not work for others. While I want my kids to stretch and grow, I also hope they have more successes than failures. Soooo...I tend to avoid public situations where good behavior is unlikely. This means restaurants. We don't do restaurants with the exception of a quick casual (no waitstaff!!) restaurant a few times a year. We don't do things after nap/dark, especially things where my kids can't be...kids. Pretty much, we manage the boys like they are potential gremlins. (Remember the movie? Anyone? Bueller?)

As far as your daughter's reluctance to let go, maybe you could find more areas where she can take control of herself and her circumstances? I have no concrete ideas here (sorry!







). It might not reduce the situations you're living with, but over time it might build her confidence that her world isn't totally out of control.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

The people in the restaurant were rude, shame on them.

My youngest daughter is also a very emotional child. She feels things very intensely. I tell her she has a big heart, and she feels things in a big way. When she's happy, she's soooo happy, when she's sad, she's sooooo sad.

I did the same things you do - wait until she's asleep to throw things away, take her out of the bath before draining it, etc.

I don't know what to tell you, except that I'm sure you're not a bad parent. I'm no expert, but it sounds like she's anxious about something. How is she coping with the new sibling? Does she feel like she's "lost" your attention somehow, with her sister's arrival? Has anything else unusual happened to the family routine?

With my daughter, it helped to give her a certain amount of things to "hoard" and a place to put them. "You can keep all the paper scraps you can fit in this shoebox, the rest we throw away." Or I would take digital pictures of her drawings so she could still look at them. If people leaving are what causes her anxiety, just lots of hugs and assurances that they will come back. My daughter cried everytime her grandma visited and then left, so I'd have grandma call from the airport, call when the plane landed, etc.

I agree that it's not a behavior problem. It's learning how to cope with strong feelings.

Another thing that did work for me was to remain calm (even though I often wanted to cry just as much as she was crying!!") Kids pick up on our feelings. Maybe trying to be matter of fact and light hearted "Yes it is sad when we say goodbye to our friends. But we can think about seeing them again soon, and how much fun that will be!"


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

FWIW, when my dd was 3.5 she was afraid of the wind. She would freak out if the sun unbrella was lightly blowing in the wind (thought it would blow away), if she looked out the window and a piece of paper was going with the breeze. Once the neighbors trash blew over and it was all flying across the yard and she started screaming at me to go and get it. We had tried to put her in soccer that summer and had to take her out because she started crying about the coaches papers blowing under his clip board. If something fell out of the truck when we got in she would freak thinking the wind would take it away.

It was a phase...a long one that lasted an entire summer. We kept our cool, talked about the wind and what it is and that sometimes things blow away and it's ok. We talked about how frustrated she was and how sad it is to lose things we like (like a balloon that got away)...and we just basically acknowledged her fears as they came up and let her feel sad or upset if she needed to. Sometimes forknowledge of what might occur and talking about it first was helpful. It can be difficult, but for example, talk to dd about the tub being drained after the bath and that it's ok because it goes outside to the ground and the grass just loves it...if she still gets upset, that's ok too, just love her through it.

sooo, you aren't the only one going through things like this. Getting a grasp on this world can be hard for little ones.

Sarah


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## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

How long was she causing a disturbance in the restaurant before you took her out?


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Try not to take people too personally. I'm sure we can all imagine a time before we had kids- or maybe even now and how hard it is to listen to kids having tantrums. It has to be one of the most difficult types of noise to deal with. Especially when it's someone else's kid. Though I have the tendency to thank my lucky stars and smile gently at the mom because I know she isn't the cause and is doing her best.

Most humans react by just wanting the noise to stop. So if you allowed her to continue on and on inside the restaurant I can see why people clapped- they shouldn't have done it (I think it's extremely immature and rude), but I can understand why they were relieved. I personally get very anxious and annoyed when I'm in an eating establishment and a child is throwing a tantrum and it continues on and on (say after 15 min without letting up) and they aren't removed. I cannot stand the noise. I'm sure many people are this way. If you had a tantrum your own child would probably want to run from the noise.









You sound like a very sweet person trying to do the best you can. In the future maybe prepare ahead of time for things like this- and begin helping her to understand that if she becomes loud or behaves inappropriately in public she has to go home/to the car. Don't continue trying to reason with a screaming child. It's just time to leave once they lose it. Maybe it will only take one or two times. And I don't think she needs to be punished, but learn the consequences. When you freak out you can't stay in the restaurant. Or when you freak out people don't want to be in the same room with you. It's very natural and I think she'll learn quickly to regulate her emotions. By quickly I mean a year or so.







It's a phase, and it won't last forever.

I think you are a great mom, and that you need to seperate people's reaction to the noise your child was making and not personalize it.


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## BCFD (Jun 21, 2006)

My oldest dd has a HUGE fear of alarms (door alarms, smoke alarms, etc.) and the wind freaks her out, too. Last night we were at a restaurant eating with friends (between us we had 6 kids (ages 6, 4, 3, 2, 2, 3 mo.) and the kids started getting rambunctious and running around. One of them tried to open the emergency exit and when I said, "Lets stay away from that door because a loud alarm will sound" dd *LOST* it. Her baby sister (2) went over to the door and she screamed so loud that a hush fell over the restaurant!









I just wanted to offer you my support and tell you that I can understand. Shame on those people for clapping and shame on your mother!!!!!


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## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

I think its entirely inappropriate to have a crying tantruming child in a restaurant for longer than 3ish minutes. Once its clear its going to continue you need to remove yourself from the situation.

I think clapping and saying things to you was HIGHLY immature and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm just wondering how long one would have to be in a restaurant causing a disturbance for that to happen.

My 2 cents? What she was feeling is normal, but how she was expressing those feelings is not socially acceptable and needs to be corrected. It takes time and patience and consistancy, but its doable.

Or, this could just be one of those 'stages' and you may need to change your habits a bit for a while to suit your child's needs. Eating out might not be an option for a while. Start encouraging appropraite 'restaurant' behavior at the dinner table and tell her you are practicing.

We are currently on hiatus from eating out. Not only for financial reasons, but because its more work than its worth at the moment. We have an almost 5 year old, a 3.5 year old, and a 1.5 year old. I'm not paying $10+ for my dinner and then not even be able to eat it hot!

When we eat dinner I encourage them to display the same behavior I'd expect in a restaurant. Stay seated, use quiet normal voices (no yelling or screeching), use manners, be polite, sit at the table until we are finished eating, keep the food where it belongs, etc, etc. It isn't always successful, but slowly they are catching on!


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## karika (Nov 4, 2005)

Maybe staying home for now is a good idea while you try to get to the bottom of what is going on for your dd. I have noticed dd1 has fits after ingesting certain things. Some of the worst are after a happy meal with a hamburger. i dont buy them anymore. other things Like food coloring, sugar, chocolate create fits too. I still buy these things as I am mostly into consensual living (I just found out it has a name a few weeks ago) and I let her make many of her own decisions. i also like to eat it, so i dont like to tell her no when i am eating it. I just advise her of the consequences and how it reacts with her.

I also wonder if our children are more in touch with their past life (or lives) because we are AP and so they are so content in this life they can deal with issues from the last lives. Maybe this is a leftover issue for your dd that you can help her work through. I am racking my brain for ways to help her be okay with the letting go... but not coming up with much. I use a lot of words to communicate what is happening all the time. dd1 did need to be out of the tub before draing too and she always needed to have the objects in there with her put up on the sides first for fear they would go down the drain. maybe there is an activity with sand and some containers that could illustrate something going from one place to the next. i will keep thinking of this.

i also think the scene at the rest was rude. someone could have offered to help you instead of just seeking to have you gone. camilla is now sleeping on my chest and typing is difficult. i like pp. i think it is wonderful you are meeting your dd's emotions so thoughtfully. and i bet some of it is underlying feelings of loss due to the new baby, i know dd1 has had some problems adjusting to my new baby.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoringTales* 
How long was she causing a disturbance in the restaurant before you took her out?

I'd ask the same thing. One or two small outbursts might be okay... but continuing to fuss and carry on is disrespectful to others.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I have never had issues like that, so I don't understand what she's feeling/thinking.

But, how long was she disruptive before you left? And what kind of restaraunt was it that people were visibly relieved to see her go? And, why didn't someone physically help you? If I were there, I would have at least held the little one while you took care of dd#1.

It's always best to leave right away during a restaurant meltdown. Even if it's just for a few minutes while she regroups and has a few moments to settle down. Staying only upsets others, which upsets you, which your kids catch on to and they get more upset. It's just no fun for anyone.

At least you are understanding of her feelings. It doesn't sound like you lost your temper, and it sounds to me like you are doing everything right. Your dd may just have a hard time with those transitions. I know my dd would have meltdowns if you tore, or cut her food. Like if you opened her eggroll to let it cool down, it was now "Broken" and she was heartbroken. (a loud heartbroken)

I'm sorry that happened. I can't imagine how that felt for you when strangers were clapping. (of course i'm imagining a standing ovation, and it probably wasn't that bad.. right?)


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## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

The more I think about this the more it is bothering me. I can't imagine how upset I'd be if that happened to me!

Please, don't let this or your mom's comment bother you too much. Just chalk it up to a learning experience. Next time, take your daughters out of the restaurant (or where ever there is a captive audience that is paying to be there) when the melt-down first starts happening. You know your daughter. You know when it'll be a bit of protesting and when its going to turn into a scream fest.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
DH and I have taken to removing the trash, flushing, draining after DD is asleep at night because it just isn't worth the awful emotions she experiences.

That's what we did, too, for a good year (DD is 4.25 now and is a little more flexible). We still have incidents - like when I took the base off her toddler car seat to turn it into the booster seat - my mistake and I couldn't get it back because the garbage truck had already taken it away - the meltdowns recurred for over a week and were pretty intense. Same when I removed her potty chair which she hadn't used in over 6 months and I didn't even know she remembered it (it had been in the shed).

When I need to throw something away of hers (clothes, toys, or whatever) I put them in a box for 6 months or so to make she isn't going to miss them before hiding them in the bottom of the trash can outside.

We don't go to restaurants as they are too stressful for her. I'm sure we will be able to go when she gets a bit older.

It will get better. I'm appalled by the reaction of the other people in the restaurant. How horrible of them.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
My mother visited a couple days ago and told me that DD is "just like me" meaning difficult and naughty. Yet in the same conversation told me that DD's "behavioural issues" are because I am a bad mom. (Thanks!)
.

Eh.. ignore that stuff. Moms only remember what's convenient to them at the time. That's what they do, and we will probably be the same way when our kids have kids.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

You might be right about not going out in public for a while. I know we kind of had to step back from outings for a while when DS was about 3-3.75. he got really upset over tiny things, had major meltdowns, etc. Turns out, I think a lot of it had to do with potty learning. I think the whole process of learning to use the potty coupled with the uncertainty of where the potty was in a new place, fear of the too loud public potty, etc, just threw him for a loop for a long time. Now that he is four and seems to have completely mastered the potty, he is a changed little man! We can go out to dinner again and go places with much more regularity. I think 3.5 is a tough age. Wait a few months and see how it goes. And hugs to you. That sounds like a rough day!

Jessica


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## vivvysue (Feb 18, 2007)

what an experience for you and your dd both

maybe talking about letting things go ahead of time, how people leaving will come back, that the water goes back to the ocean etc might help.. you know before your dd is faced with actually being in the situation.. perhaps with her dolls or toys sort of like play therapy, acting those type of situations out when she is calm and feels in control of herself and the situation might help when she is faced with it later on and you are out.

i am so sorry that the adults acted that way, even if they were feeling anxious about your dd's behaviour it was rude and unsympathetic to say the least. i remember being in a similar situation when my ds was about that age and i had a nursling in a sling on a greyhound bus







i was so thankful a college aged girl offered to take him in the seat ahead of me. she put his head and hers under a repozo and they chatted and talked until he felt calm... i was soooooo thankful for her help and understanding and my son seemed to respond to her sympathy and caring so much more than the angry people he had been disturbing earlier... i always remember it when i see moms with lo's not having the best days, and because of it these days i usually offer to help in some way

it wont last forver mama, of that you can be absolutley sure









v


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

I really agree with reading the book recommendations for Spirited Child and Happiest Toddler.
It seems your child has issues with transitions. Tantrums over flushing and taking out the trash signal "spirited" and high needs to me. Those books have excellent advice on transitions.

Children on the Aspergers continuum also hate transitions. While people might imply that if you just "taught them manners" they'd get over it, for some children (and adults) 'change' and 'loss' are really devastating. I teach and I've had Aspergers students who would totally flip out if they had unexpected change, even if it was positive! I might say "you know that test, I'm moving it to next week" and they'd be in tears all day over it!
If your child has some Asperger like characteristics they can still be intelligent (very often they are are) funny, popular and sweet individuals. But they need us to manage certain situations carefully, so that those situations dont cause our children distress.

Its hard because many parents dont understand the struggles you go through. But read those books and it will all make sense!! Goodluck


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

3.5 is a hard age.







She'll outgrow the tantrums. Tantrums are hard, but kids learn through them. I personally wouldn't tiptoe too much around her - she's learning that things aren't always going to work out just how she likes, and that's a hard lesson. I'd empathize and, when she's ready, hold her and reassure her that you love her, but live your life.

As far as the restaurant goes, having a child who tantrumed like that, I'd suggest having an escape plan ready before even stepping into any restaurant. As in, "If she blows up at the restaurant, I'll quick get her outside and you get the food packed up and pay." It'll happen again. Just be ready ahead of time - I've been there where I've struggled to get things under control in the restaurant and partially just stood there like a deer in the headlights. It's understandable to not be ready to deal with it, but next time have a plan so it won't turn out like that.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

Hugs to you mama! I've soooo btdt and it sucks. I think you did all you could and I'm sorry that the people in the restaurant were UAVs.

I think that the advice about not doing restaurants for a while is good. I'm in the same boat right now with my youngest. We tried to take her out once or twice and it just didn't work out so now we are waiting for another 6 months or so to see how she does.

Once I was in the grocery store checkout line and my youngest was in the cart having a meltdown because I wouldn't let her eat the yogurt I was buying. I was unloading the cart and some old lady came up to me and said, "People just don't understand how to behave in stores anymore!" then she glared at my dd.







: I understand that the noise bothers people but I had to purchase my groceries, so in that case they just to have to live with it and deal.

Also, try to let what your mom said roll off your back. It's crap and not even worth giving any power to.

I also can't believe that no one tried to help you at all. That is really rude, imo. I would've at least offered to help a mom who had two little ones and was all by herself. People just suck sometimes. Try not to let it upset you too much. It happens to every single mom/dad and if there are people out there who think that it never happened with their kids then they just don't remember.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Oh mama, I have so been there







My kids are very close in age and #1 is also spirited...she was in a nonstop tantrum it felt like for years it felt like. She still has some wicked meltdowns (see my post about extreme tantrums!).

I also recommend "The Explosive Child". It was very helpful to me.

Also: my parents have said similar things to me and I know how hard that is. And the people at the restaurant were just awful!


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I've been there and done that momma. It totally sucks to have to deal with that kind of reaction from your child in a public place.

DD tends to go through phases of not being able to handle social situations and other outings. These phases seem to correspond with growth spurts. So I guess the good news for me is they should not come as frequently as she grows. In the meantime I handle them by becoming a bit of a homebody during these phases. We will still go out and about, but I usually cut back on her planned weekly activities. This way I feel free to take advantage of good moods and can just chill at home on bad mood days (which helps them be more of a good mood day).


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoringTales* 
How long was she causing a disturbance in the restaurant before you took her out?

I haven't finished reading the responses here (thank you everyone, I will read them!) but I wanted to address this. I agree FULLY with those of you who say that disturbances in public should be addressed immediately and that I should avoid restaurants etc (we do avoid public situations where this might occur) but this was my situation:

- we had a big group of moms and kids and a SEPARATE room in the restaurant specifically because we were a big group with kids (the people who clapped were in the adjoining room that I had to walk thru to get to the outside door). It was because of this situation that I agreed to go to the lunch, because it seemed a very safe public environment. The other kids were all over the place, lying on the floor, banging on the table, etc. DD got out of her chair a few times but until she got upset she wasn't loud and she sat down and did whatever I asked of her the entire time.

- the service was terrible - took forever - our food came after everyone else had finished so I immediately asked for a to-go box because I knew we had to get out of there before the meltdown even started. I knew it was a possibility and I was on top of it, I just couldn't get the situation taken care of in time.

- the other kids were being crazy (kids, you know, just high-spirited) but one of them continually was pushing DD down to the ground and against walls so by the time the meltdown occurred she had HAD it with the other kids. I think part of her difficulty with saying goodbye to the one child was because she was feeling angry about his aggressive behavior with her and she wanted to feel better about it before he left. She often is that way - has to make things right before leaving a situation.

- four kids had us blocked in a corner so when DD started crying I kept trying to separate them and remove her but I couldn't keep their hands off DD (or the baby strapped to my chest) so while I was packing our stuff up everything I did got UNDONE by one kid or another.

- the waiter took forever to bring our bill and when he came I just put all my money in the tray and left, didn't wait for change

So... I don't know how long she was screaming. It felt like 1/2 hour but I'm sure it wasn't more than 4 or 5 minutes at the most. And the ENTIRE time she was screaming my whole focus was on getting her out of there. I wasn't just hanging around allowing her to scream while people sat at tables next to us trying to have lunch.

The restaurant is not fancy in any way. There is wait staff (it isn't fast food) but it is known as a kid-friendly place.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
- the service was terrible - took forever - our food came after everyone else had finished so I immediately asked for a to-go box because I knew we had to get out of there before the meltdown even started. I knew it was a possibility and I was on top of it, I just couldn't get the situation taken care of in time.

- the other kids were being crazy (kids, you know, just high-spirited) but one of them continually was pushing DD down to the ground and against walls so by the time the meltdown occurred she had HAD it with the other kids. I think part of her difficulty with saying goodbye to the one child was because she was feeling angry about his aggressive behavior with her and she wanted to feel better about it before he left. She often is that way - has to make things right before leaving a situation.

- four kids had us blocked in a corner so when DD started crying I kept trying to separate them and remove her but I couldn't keep their hands off DD (or the baby strapped to my chest) so while I was packing our stuff up everything I did got UNDONE by one kid or another.

- the waiter took forever to bring our bill and when he came I just put all my money in the tray and left, didn't wait for change

It totally sounds to me like you did everything in your power to prepare and deal with the situation. I think that the parents of the kids who were all over you/your kids are the ones to blame and the poor service. Why didn't some of the mom's in your group come over and stop the kids from bothering you guys while you were leaving? That would've upset me. Also the clapping thing is even more uncalled for now, IMO.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It sounds like your little one might do just fine out in public with just you and your family. I think she was just totally overwhelmed. Who wouldn't be in that situation. You shouldn't feel bad at all. Hugs.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I just want to say that I really think you did fine. Parenting is not about being perfect. I think your response was appropriate. I think those people were very rude. And I'm guessing they were reacting to all the kids' behaviour, not just yours.

Have a cup of tea and call it a day.









Also, we've found the "big friendly gatherings" at restaurants are just disasters. We skip them.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

that situation at the restaurant was a meltdown waiting to happen, mama. that wasn't your fault. i am twitchy just reading about it. shame on those people who shouted at you. what turds. wth is wrong with people?!

i don't think I would have been brave enough to even attempt a moms-group sit down lunch with littles your LO's ages. your dd may be high spirited, but she may also just have been overloaded by the noise and other kids messing with her (wth were their parents??). i'd say any LO wouldve reacted similarly. plus, the bigger picture, too, is that she has just, very recently, been totally shoved out of the pecking order by a new baby. that's a biggie there. she misses you, and misses being the baby. (my 6 yr old is tenderhearted, and needs mama time everyday, just the two of us, or her behavior gets pretty negative) plus she's 3. 3 year olds are super duper emotional mine fields-even the mellow ones have their hot buttons.

the restaurant sucks for not getting your food out faster. they should've hooked you up with *something* while you were waiting too. my dh is a rest. mgr. and his rest. has a big book basket, etch a sketches, crayons and paper, and (most) of the waitstaff know to ask the parents of littles if they want to order something to munch on while the rest of the food is being prepared.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)




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## Alana (Jan 4, 2005)

Wow. I am SO sorry the adults acted that way.

I just wanted to hopefully encourage you. My oldest child was VERY intense when he was younger. I would end most days in tears feeling inadequate as his parent.

It was BAD.
There were so many times we had to leave places, times I was embarrassed, so many suggestions offered to me, several Pearl books handed to me.

That same child is now 8.5 and is very easy going, sweet, empathetic, just an absolute doll to be around. I sometimes cannot believe he is the same kid.
Hang in there! you are doing fine, you know your daughter, ignore everyone else.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

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## sunshine1793 (Oct 29, 2007)

I think you did the best you could with the situation as it was. I would suggest just writing it off as a learning experience. What were the triggers, and what could be done differently next time to produce a more pleasant experiance for everyone? There is no reason to feel guilty or badly. What happened, happened and its over now. You did the best you could, and that's that.

(I had a situation where my dd threw a tantrum because I wouldn't let her play with toys in a store. We left fairly quickly, but I was so angry. I love browsing in stores; however, dd doesn't tolerate it because she wants to play and explore. So, if I want to go browsing, I find someone else to watch her and I go alone. Problem solved. )

I think it's terribly rude for people to make comments like that and clap as you left, and also for your mom to speak like that to you. You know your daughter and the situation. It isn't a matter of punishment.

Something that has worked well, much to my surprise as dd is still under 2, is sitting down with her sometime later when all is calm, having a snack and just talking to her. Explaining the situation in all its details, why I was upset, why she was upset, etc. Loud and/or rough kids not being considerate of her, feeling hungry and having slow service - staff were either busy or inconsiderate, etc, other people feeling anxious because she was yelling, and why I was frustrated. I would say something about how it wasn't her fault that she was hungry or annoyed, etc, but it was still not nice/respectful/considerate/acceptable for her to yell and 'make a scene' in a restaurant. I still expect her to be quiet, or say 'mommy, i'm finished/angry and I want to leave', or to wait patiently because we are leaving. Next time, I expect xyz from you, and next time I will do xyz for you. With lots of understanding, empathy, sympathy, and love thrown in for good measure.

Somehow, she seems to understand the importance of what I've said, and that I understand her and we have peace on the issue. It seems to be good for our relationship, which is good for future behavior. I don't fully understand how this helps, but it seems to. Maybe it's more for me, because I feel like I've said what I need to let the issue rest and feel good about things, rather than holding in annoyance and resentment towards her, you know? So then I act better towards her, and she reciprocates. I don't know. Just thought I'd throw that out there.









Anyway, I have to go and make dinner - dd is pulling me towards the kitchen! I hope this helps, if nothing more than another btdt!


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

Wow - just, wow at the horrible behavioral of the people in the restaurant. That would have surely sent me home in a rage of tears. I know that with restaurant meltdowns and two little ones no matter what it can take 5 minutes easily just to haul everyone out, and thats even with dropping money on the table and leaving. I do *highly* recommend just dropping money and leaving (so make sure you have cash). It will reduce your stress level next time you try a restaurant, which I realize probably is in the distant future.

My 5 y/o is also attached to "things." Wrappers, broken stuff, etc. I have to get rid of things when he is asleep or not home. It isn't quite as intense as with your daughter (we've never had an issue with bath water or the toilet, for instance). Anyhow, what has helped him is that he feels much bettter if we take a picture of whatever it is before getting rid of it. This weekend I got a new rug for the dining room and we had to set up the room and take photos before the old rug went out. He asked me several times later if I'd taken the photo and he was fine. He never really asks to see the photos later, but something about having them helps him. Now, you may end up with 400 digital photos of bathwater, but it might help.....


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I would have given those people the finger. Or a piece of my mind. I know, great example to set for my kids and all.

Anyway, I think you handled it fine. And the situation was one where it was OKAY that your kid was loud and had a fit, IMO. They shouldn't have a room like that if they don't want kids to be loud.

And, maybe you won't be able to go out to eat much for a while. But that's okay too! That's just life with LOs!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Wow I would have been PO'ed at the other moms (parents, whatever, adults in charge) that were allowing these other children to be mean to mine in the restaurant.

And run around, etc..

There was one morning I was going to attempt to take mine for a sitdown breakfast out--before the baby, 2 ages 3 and 1.5 at the time.

We got as far as ordering beverages and when the waitress left, they chose to do everything BUT sit down at the table and color.

I didn't allow them to run around, climb on the table, be under the table, etc. etc.
even if that is age-appropriate developmental behavior, it is not appropriate restaurant behavior.

We left. We have not attempted a restaurant like that since.

in addition to po'ed at the clapping.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I was once slow clapped for removing my 22 month old from a cafe and i walked right up to the instigator's table and dumped my screaming kid in his lap! He looked horrified, i said "fun isn't it?" scooped her up and left with my dignity if not my moral high ground!

I'm so sorry. I think you describe a relatively normal experience (in terms of what 3 year olds are like) though the supposed-adults being so mean and immature is a bit abnormal! Probably the general kid-noise was what had bothered everyone, you were just a visible person with a screaming kid by the time you were leaving, rather than it being her specific tantrum that was the issue.

Have you considered letting water out and etc. MORE at home so that she can practice dealing with these emotions. I know how tempting it is just to avpoid all the difficult situations because the explosions are SO disproportionately massive, but i have found some of DD's issues have improved hugely with practice of stressful situations at home (her problems surround crying noises and screaming which means practically every peer within 5 years of her age is a problem!).


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## nznavo (Aug 9, 2004)

My son had the same freak outs for the same reasons when he was 3. He generally never freaks out in public though, saves it up for me at home. I just wanted to reassure you that for him, the intense worry about wasting things and things disappearing has passed. Time dealt with it. We also specified certain places he could keep things (he had a newspaper basket, for eg) and made him do the flushing, emptying the bath etc himself and then helped him deal with it if he was upset. Until I read your post I had forgotten he'd gone through that. So there's hope!


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fuamami* 
Anyway, I think you handled it fine. And the situation was one where it was OKAY that your kid was loud and had a fit, IMO. They shouldn't have a room like that if they don't want kids to be loud.

Just curious - how is a restaurant an okay place for a child to have a screaming tantrum? They were not seated in a special section or room for just families with kids so I'm confused as to what you mean by having a "room like that".


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

It sounds like they were in a separate room with only families/kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
- we had a big group of moms and kids and a SEPARATE room in the restaurant specifically because we were a big group with kids (the people who clapped were in the adjoining room that I had to walk thru to get to the outside door). It was because of this situation that I agreed to go to the lunch, because it seemed a very safe public environment. The other kids were all over the place, lying on the floor, banging on the table, etc. DD got out of her chair a few times but until she got upset she wasn't loud and she sat down and did whatever I asked of her the entire time.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Man, it's gotta be even harder dealing with that stuff when you've got so many rude people around.

Maybe your dd would do well with being shown about recycling and composting and how stuff isn't "gone" it's just used in a different way?

Whatever you do, never ever ever, read her the Velveteen Rabbit.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BoringTales* 
I think clapping and saying things to you was HIGHLY immature and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm just wondering how long one would have to be in a restaurant causing a disturbance for that to happen.

Since people clapped and laughed when a waitress slipped and dropped a full tray of hot food once when we were out eating (us, and the table who was waiting for their food were the only ones who didn't), I wouldn't be surprised at people being jerks about a kid leaving even after one minute.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Just read the second post about the situation. You don't need to stop going out to eat, you just need to stop going to crappy restaurants with people who can't control their own kids.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Whatever you do, never ever ever, read her the Velveteen Rabbit.

OT:
I hate that book. I haven't read it to my dd yet because I found it so disturbing when I was a kid. If we ever do read it I'm telling her what it's about before hand. I was really upset after my mom read that story to me, I couldn't stop crying and I remember laying in bed thinking about it. Ugh.


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