# Newborn Tests & Procedures



## Mom&BabyChiro (Aug 6, 2008)

I just returned from my 37 week appointment and so now it's down to the wire on making some decisions as far as which newborn tests and procedures we want done, and what we want to opt-out for.

I plan to refuse the antibiotic eye ointment - basically the midwife writes down in her notes that we "physically would not allow her to apply it" - as I was tested in early pregnancy and do not have either chlamydia or gonorrhea.

I haven't yet done enough research to have decided on the vitamin K drops (although I know we do not want the pharmaceutical injection). I know that the incidence of Vit. K deficient bleeding is 1 in 10,000 which is not very common. I also really trust that our bodies (and our babies bodies) know what they are doing, and that just maybe there is a reason that babies 6 months of age have lower levels of Vit. K in their systems, even if we haven't figured out what it is yet? If we have a boy, we are not planning to circumcise, so that is not an issue for us to consider with this test.

The last one is the PKU test. I don't love the idea of having my newborn's heel pricked, but can see that it could provide us some valuable information about potential future health complications.

So any thoughts or feedback you all have would be greatly appreciated!


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## texaspeach (Jun 19, 2005)

don't forget about the hepatitis B vaccination that is standard at birth!

I'd find out if the PKU screen is actually a more complete metabolic screening. In some states it's a whole list of things that while pretty rare can have life threatening complications if undiagnosed.

We aren't circing and aren't doing the hep B vax, but are doing the other things. I think the metabolic screening is important, but am just indifferent on the eye ointment (we'll wait several hrs after the birth) and vit K injection. I don't see them as harmful as the other things, which to me have clear draw backs, so I'm not up for fighting about it with the staff.


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## Raene (Jul 24, 2008)

We're not doing Hep B, Vitamin K, Eye Drops, or PKU (or circ, if it comes to that).

People all feel differently about PKU. For us, the brochure we were given sounded silly, it's an extra ouch for baby, and if we found out there was a problem we wouldn't do anything differently. So...it's unnecessary in our family. I can see how it might be helpful for people who are more pro-meds and pro-docs, though, if they wanted to do something about a problem that might come out.

I've also heard that sometimes positives come up for rare disorders and they're false positives, which stresses out the whole family and ends up being for nothing. Not something I'd really want to go through, but again, that's just me.


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## dorenavant (Apr 1, 2009)

We're doing the PKU because my nephew has a very rare metabolic disorder that was not caught at birth and he is now severely brain-damaged because he was misdiagnosed with cerebral palsy when he became symptomatic. The chances of this baby having the same disorder are extremely low, but the fact is that for us the benefits heavily outweigh the risks.
We are doing eye ointment and vit K, but not hep B and not circumcising.


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## NaturalMindedMomma (Feb 5, 2007)

only did the PKU.

no bath, no circ, not vaccines, drops, or ointments.


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## Mamabeakley (Jul 9, 2004)

We do the "metabolic screening". I don't _like_ upsetting my babies by poking their heels, but I would want to know if one of them had such a disorder, and it is quick & I am right there acknowleging their pain, etc.

Nothing else. I have no STIs, none of their births has been traumatic enough for me to think vit K was warranted, and we don't vax at all until they wean. DD still hasn't been bathed b/c I'm waiting for her belly button to stop bleeding - the dipes keep bumping her scab.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

We are definetly not doing the hep b nor are we circumsizing him, and probably not vit k or eye goop either. PKU I'm pretty OK with - its just a small blood draw, nothing injected, and if he would have one of the rare conditions tested for, I *WOULD* want to know.


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## Abraisme (Mar 8, 2009)

I opt out of everything except the PKU test. To me it's worth the tiny prick if we can prevent a life-threatening issue.

Also, DS was severely tongue-tied, so he had to have the Vit K shot at 2 weeks old to get his tongue fixed. We will do liquid vit k this time if our baby needs her tongue clipped too. I don't see any reason to get the vitamin k shot unless your child needs surgery of any kind.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

We're doing a home birth and due to some family history, we're rushing the PKU results. The PKU is really non-invasive (though it was pretty awful for my DD#1 with a nurse who didn't know what she was doing














. The PKU test (depending on the state you live in) can diagnose some (admittedly quite rare) metabolic disorders that require simple dietary treatment, but could be life threatening if not caught.

There's also the hearing exam, which was pretty miserable for my DD (in large part due to the nurse doing it wanting her swaddled - which DD HATED from the beginning- and glaring about not using a pacifier). Still, it's non-invasive and gives important information. So, I personally will do the hearing test at some point with this babe (though again my midwife won't be doing it at home).

We're skipping eye prophylactic and vitamin K (unless there's excessive bruising from the birth). We're expecting a girl, and our midwife certainly doesn't circumcise anyway, but we wouldn't be doing that. We're not vaccinating our little ones (at least not at this time, I might selectively vaccinate when they're much older).

Assuming you're birthing in a hospital, you also want to think about the newborn bath (I wish we'd declined it with DD#1, not that she complained about it).


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## lisaloo (May 24, 2004)

We opt out of everything but the PKU and hearing screening as well. I'm not sure when/where those will happen yet as we're birthing at a birth center with a midwife but I feel like those two things are minimally invasive and pretty important.


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## thorn (Dec 28, 2004)

we did vit k and PKU. no hep B, no circ, no bath.

we usually do the hearing screen but for some reason they didn't do it before we left this time and we have to take him somewhere to get it done, not sure if we'll bother.


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## Mamatoabunch (Sep 23, 2007)

We HB/UC and do none of them, haven't since our first and only hospital birth w/ our twins. I take alfalfa to boost vit K to myself and therefor to baby from 34 weeks.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

We do the PKU because it screens for some pretty dangerous things and we don't feel comfortable passing on it. With DS2 (homebirth) I was sure I didn't want the vit K or the eye drops but then he was born and I felt he needed the vit K so we did it. He ended up having heart surgery 2 weeks later so I'm happy I went with my instincts on that one. Because of what he went through I'm leaning towards vit K again just in case. We don't circ or vax. I'm leaning towards delayed eye drops this time.


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## Michigan Mama (Jun 25, 2008)

We'll do the vit k and the metabolic testing (i think it is more extensive than pku in michigan) but skip everything else. We are delayed/selective vaxers and no one gave us any trouble about this before. No circ either. Hearing test is ok.


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

We only did the PKU.
We don't vaccinate, do the eye drops (go breastmilk!), or bathe baby, no vit K (I drink so much nettles that I would probably never be necessary), but my dh wants to circumcise. I think we may not anyway. Dh's father and uncle weren't circumcised and had to be later on life due to serious infections. If it were just one person I may shrug it off, but 2 members in the family, it makes me nervous. I am still not for it, but Iwant to be totally in agreement in whatever decision my dh and I make.
I am probably going to get hate emails from mamas here, hopefully this thread wont get removed due to me writing this. Please, mamas, I am not up for any discussion about this. I can do my own research.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

We will do the PKU, ds nursed through it and barely noticed. We will do the eye drops, delayed just a bit. No Vit K unless there is bruising. If it seems necessary, we'll go for the shot instead of the oral drops... I don't want to introduce anything but breastmilk into a virgin gut. No Hep B, no bath


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## MiamiMami (Feb 1, 2005)

We will do the PKU and decide on the Vit K after birth. We skip everything else.


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## Mom&BabyChiro (Aug 6, 2008)

Thanks for everyone's responses on this! I've been busy the last couple of days and just now remembered to come back and check what y'all had to say 

We're planning to birth at home, so it does make most of these decisions easier...nothing to "fight" about with anyone, just have to make a decision and let my midwife know.

We will probably go ahead with the PKU screen, that does include testing for 15-20 other disorders as well. I think my only concern, as someone else voiced, is the possibility of a false positive result and then having to go through worrying for no reason (or just putting it out into the universe and having it manifest into reality, when it may have resolved on its own!).

I think we'll do the Vit K drops only if our midwife is concerned due to a traumatic birth, or noticing excessive bruising, etc. on our babe.

Now the bath thing is something I need to read up on again. I remember previous threads on here, but just glanced through them. Will read what everyone said, share the information with my midwife, and see what she thinks about the issue as well!


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

We skipped the eye goop and won't do the hep b (the birth center doesn't do it, you do it later). We chose to do the K drops. Went in the next day to do the metabolic testing (it tests for 29 different things here in Kansas).
Bath wise, they have the mom take a bath with the baby. So, I got to bath him as much (or little) as I wanted.







Then daddy took him to diaper and dress him while I washed up. (that is probably the one and only time DH will diaper the kid. LOL And it was a prefold, so extra points for DH!







)
Oh, and we didn't (and won't) circ.


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## ohiomommy1122 (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaturalMindedMomma* 
only did the PKU.

no bath, no circ, not vaccines, drops, or ointments.

same as us







but since we left 4 hours post partim I had to go back and have pku done a week later if you are breastfeeding its not actually acurate until AFTER your milk has come in and baby has been drinking milk for at least 24 hours- not just colostrum otherwise it may not detect some of the rare metobolic disorders. I figure if I'm going to do it I want it done right so I wait a week to get it done


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## ohiomommy1122 (Jul 7, 2006)

heres some info copied off this link http://children.webmd.com/phenylketonuria-pku-test

How To Prepare
Your baby should be *drinking breast milk or formula for 24 hours before the blood sample is taken*. PKU test results are more likely to be correct if the blood sample is taken after the baby has been drinking milk or formula for at least 48 hours.

this means breastmilk NOT colostrum


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## Koalamom (Dec 27, 2007)

Good info Betsy! I think I had enough days of breastmilk in. Had baby on Monday and did the test on a Thursday.


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## Hezzie (Jun 7, 2009)

MW told us they do PKU test twice for that reason and compare first result to the second to double check for disorders. I think they stick once at birth and then again 2 weeks later.

We're doing Vit. K shot, but she never gives full dose like the hospital because she says it's too much. May or may not do eye drops...she's cool with us refusing things, we just have to write and sign a statement that we refused them so she doesn't get in trouble. Hep. B will be at first well baby check with the ped (6-8 weeks after birth) since MW can't do that. Same for hearing test. No circ if we have a boy as DH is very much against it.


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## GenomicsGirl (Jan 25, 2004)

We did PKU. One of my professors from McGill University was/is a key researcher in PKU genetics (Dr Charles Scriver) and I've never seen any harm in testing for it. PKU is a 100% treatable disease but if left untreated, the damage is permanent. The benefits of knowing far outweighed the testing for our family.


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## Mom&BabyChiro (Aug 6, 2008)

Our midwife does the PKU, etc. screening at the 24 hour post-birth appointment as well as the 1 week appointment. She did say that if we were concerned with only doing the test one time, it would be best to wait and do the 2nd one for accuracy reasons. Now I wonder why they do the first one right at birth instead of waiting a week? She may have told me, but I forgot.

She also has someone who comes weekly to her home clinic to do the hearing screen, so we'll probably plan to do that as well.


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## CellarDoor (Nov 22, 2005)

We decline everything except the PKU (actually it's tons of things they test for in CA). It's relatively non-invasive and if my baby does have something rare and life-threatening, I definitely want to know about it. FWIW, the only prenatal test I got (besides baseline bloodwork) was the GBS.


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## Coconut Chronicles (Aug 31, 2006)

I am thinking we will do PKU and the hearing test


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## mi.birthdoula (Jun 12, 2008)

Not doing: circ, eye drops, vit k, hep b or anything else foreign to baby

Doing: PKU, hearing test, bath (but DH has to watch they don't retract AT ALL.

Hoping I don't have too much trouble with the nurses since I already have the support of the L&D nurse Manager, but just to be sure we're going to butter them up with fresh doughnuts and bagels the morning of the section!







Hopefully they won't be too bad then


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

We did the PKU & hearing test, but declined everything else for DS (aside from basic assements & temperature checks), including the bath







He was in the nursery for maybe 20 minutes total in the 36+ hours that he was in the hospital with me... and DH was with him when he was... they did pretty much everything in the room, including the hearing test, and they seemed pretty OK with that, though the nurses would have obviously preffered they didn't have to haul everything back and forth from the nursery... but they did


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## ldybg610 (Aug 12, 2009)

I'm just starting to read up on the procedures and test they do after birth since we haven't had our hospital tour yet. I know we are def not doing the hep b or vit K. Haven't read anything about the eye drops, hearing test, or bath yet. Just wondering what are the reasons you guys don't want them done? With the PKU I'm a little torn. When I first read what it was I didn't see any harm in it. They weren't injecting anything into your baby just taking some blood, and the info you get could save them from some very horrible problems later. Then I asked my husband about it and he said that he heard of a guy who, when they took his blood, sold his DNA to the government or something and it was this big mess and someone ended up sueing someone else. I dunno sounds crazy to me. Anyone else heard of such a thing? We are also circ. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96787


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## thorn (Dec 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldybg610* 
We are also circ. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

please research this some more.


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## MiamiMami (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldybg610* 
We are also circ. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96787

Mama- please do some sound research on this issue.


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## writteninkursive (Feb 22, 2009)

We're doing _nothing_ to our baby boy when he arrives! We're having him in the living room and I don't plan to get any routine testing or vaccines or cutting of any body parts done.
I am not inherently against the metabolic testing, as I prefer they take blood _out_ of our baby as opposed to putting things _in_ his body! But I really don't think he truly needs the testing, and so I will discuss it with his holistic doctor at a later time.
Instead of the Vitamin K injection, I am taking Vitamin K supplements now and will continue to do so as I breastfeed. Definitely no eye ointment. I don't have any STD's, and it's amusing to me that they do that routinely even to babies that clearly aren't going to be exposed to STD's.
All natural, all the way.







:


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## KikaKika (Jul 7, 2007)

And here, on MDC, there is a whole forum dedicated to circ. info:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44


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## Mom&BabyChiro (Aug 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldybg610* 
Haven't read anything about the eye drops, hearing test, or bath yet. Just wondering what are the reasons you guys don't want them done? With the PKU I'm a little torn. Anyone else heard of such a thing? We are also circ. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96787

ldybg610 - Here's a few of my thoughts and opinions from the questions in your post...

As far as the eye ointment, there are a couple of reasons I'm choosing not to use it. One is that it is to protect the baby's eyes from possible infection with chlamydia or gonorrhea. Since this is a test typically given to pregnant women, one should know if they are positive or not if they are in a monogamous relationship. It is really important for the newborn to have the ability to clearly look around at its new surroundings and bond with its mother. When the eye ointment is used, it blurs the vision for quite some time and can interfere with this process. So for me, I do not want to do anything that will make it more challenging to bond as much as possible, and as early as possible with my little one.

Don't know much about the hearing test, but I know that it's something that does not need to be done in the time immediately post-birth. There's so many other things to measure, etc. and the hearing test can wait. Again, the bonding time with Mom is much more important.

For baby bath, again the main issue has to do with mother/infant bonding. Besides being able to gaze at each other, breastfeed, and connect skin-to-skin, there is an aspect to the bonding process that is related to olfactory (smell) senses. The smell of the natural body fluids on the baby is an just one of the important aspects leading to the maternal response kicking in in the mother. If all fluids and substances are cleaned off the baby immediately following delivery, especially using any type of cleanser/soap to do so, it interferes with the mom's ability to sense her baby through the olfactory receptors. If the baby is all covered in vernix, it's a great skin moisturizer and can just be rubbed in (take a bit to use for yourself if you need it!). Other than that, there isn't really any need to bathe your babe right after birth.

As far as your concerns for PKU...I suppose it could be valid, but not very likely. And very hard to prove!! I would suggest making the decision based on whether or not you think the information you get from the screening test will be useful to you.

And I agree with several others that you might want to research the circumcision issue a bit further. Besides the fact that you have to pay out of pocket for the procedure, there have been no recent studies showing that circumcision leads to decreased rates of infection or STD transmission. In fact, there are many reasons why many now feel it is more beneficial to not circumsize for the health of the male and his penis. And even the American Academy of Pediatrics no longer recommends it to be done routinely, as too many studies have shown it just does not have the benefits they once believed it to have.

I hope this helps!


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## GenomicsGirl (Jan 25, 2004)

Griffin's PKU test just came back with "questionable results". This never happened with my other 3 kids! I went back to the hospital for more bloodwork today ...


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Hope all is well Genomics!

~~~~~~~~
Just a random factoid... in New York State the eye goop and vit K are required. They are not covered by religious or personal exemption laws and a hospital, birth center, or homebirth provider is required by law to report a family that declines these interventions (to CPS). What CPS does with the information varies. Now, there are individual care providers who will simply check off the appropriate box and hospitals/birth centers where they are more flexible about how this is handled (the hospital I used with dd1 and dd2 for example would allow parents to apply the eye goop and not "notice" if the parent missed getting it near the babe's eyes). But it is something to be aware of if you are giving birth in NYS. (there is also a province in Canada with a similar "no exceptions" rule regarding eye goop and vit k but you'd have to search Birth & Beyond because I can't remember which one it is!).

So... we do the eye goop and vit k. Generally we wait till the babe is asleep or nursing, about an hour after the birth. This way there's less stress for the babe and bonding isn't impacted as much.

We do the metabolic screening (in the hospital and at the one week baby visit) since these are conditions that are unpredictable (there usually isn't a family history), often easy to treat with dietary intervention, but which cause serious and often permanent damage if not detected quickly. Nursing babe during the heel stick, and making sure to ask for a nurse or phlebotomist who is good with babes, can help. Neither of my daughters noticed the heel stick... I think it was harder for me!

We also do the hearing test. The hospital we've used in the past does the test while the babe is asleep... you call a nurse when babe is "out" and they bring a little gizmo to your room and check right then and there. We were told it's actually more accurate when the babe is asleep.

Other than that we don't do anything. No newborn vax, no non-necessary medical or surgical procedures, no leaving the babe with strangers in the nursery (DH or I go with the babe if they need to leave our room). We do have a family practice dr that cares for our whole family (and has for about 5 years now)... we adore her, the whole practice is very crunchy/friendly/open to alternative medicine so we go with a fairly standrad schedule of well baby visits but space out any vax and generally don't anticipate problems.


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## Munchkinmaker (Jun 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldybg610* 
I'm just starting to read up on the procedures and test they do after birth since we haven't had our hospital tour yet. I know we are def not doing the hep b or vit K. Haven't read anything about the eye drops, hearing test, or bath yet. Just wondering what are the reasons you guys don't want them done? With the PKU I'm a little torn. When I first read what it was I didn't see any harm in it. They weren't injecting anything into your baby just taking some blood, and the info you get could save them from some very horrible problems later. Then I asked my husband about it and he said that *he heard of a guy who, when they took his blood, sold his DNA to the government or something and it was this big mess and someone ended up sueing someone else*. I dunno sounds crazy to me. Anyone else heard of such a thing? *We are also circ*. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96787

If you're concerned the government is going to snatch away your child's DNA... You may want to ask for your son's foreskin back. It too contains DNA.


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## snowbunny (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ldybg610* 
I'm just starting to read up on the procedures and test they do after birth since we haven't had our hospital tour yet. I know we are def not doing the hep b or vit K. Haven't read anything about the eye drops, hearing test, or bath yet. Just wondering what are the reasons you guys don't want them done? With the PKU I'm a little torn. When I first read what it was I didn't see any harm in it. They weren't injecting anything into your baby just taking some blood, and the info you get could save them from some very horrible problems later. Then I asked my husband about it and he said that he heard of a guy who, when they took his blood, sold his DNA to the government or something and it was this big mess and someone ended up sueing someone else. I dunno sounds crazy to me. Anyone else heard of such a thing? We are also circ. DH doesn't really want to, but only because its gonna cost $325 lol. I want to because I don't want him to grow up running the risk of getting infections and things.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96787

I'm a touch confused: you're considering foregoing a heel prick because of the off-chance there's a government DNA-selling conspiracy, but are willing to have a part of your son's genitalia cut off for fear of "infections and things"?

There's a great forum on here dedicated to circumcision and I'm sure it could be invaluable to you.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raene* 
People all feel differently about PKU. For us, the brochure we were given sounded silly, it's an extra ouch for baby, and if we found out there was a problem we wouldn't do anything differently. So...it's unnecessary in our family.

What do you mean that you wouldn't do anything differently if you knew your child had PKU or another diet-treatable but otherwise extremely damaging metabolic disorder? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Many of the disorders tested for cause irreversible brain damage unless a special diet is followed.
So surely you don't mean that you would feed your child foods that would cause brain damage and death. Is it possible that you are confusing the metabolic screen with some sort of prenatal testing?


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## SUOMI-SOFIA (Dec 7, 2008)

I did the PKU only last time...I'm doing the injectable Vitamin K - my very holistic family DO had good explanation for stopping any bleeding trauma...he's seen the worst case senario apparently?!? Ointment - I say no since I don't have VD & that's why they started doing it...


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## marlygf (Mar 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 

Just a random factoid... in New York State the eye goop and vit K are required. They are not covered by religious or personal exemption laws and a hospital, birth center, or homebirth provider is required by law to report a family that declines these interventions (to CPS). What CPS does with the information varies. Now, there are individual care providers who will simply check off the appropriate box and hospitals/birth centers where they are more flexible about how this is handled (the hospital I used with dd1 and dd2 for example would allow parents to apply the eye goop and not "notice" if the parent missed getting it near the babe's eyes). But it is something to be aware of if you are giving birth in NYS. (there is also a province in Canada with a similar "no exceptions" rule regarding eye goop and vit k but you'd have to search Birth & Beyond because I can't remember which one it is!).


Wow, its so strange how laws differ from state to state. Maybe there are more STD's there, or at least they assume? They also must really think its their responsibility to take care of those babies who could possibly have a bleeding disorder. Just strange to me.

We got the Vit K with my oldest and then he wouldn't bleed when they would test his sugars (over 9lbs, dumb stuff) and do the PKU. I was not happy. The poor kid had like 5 pricks in each foot. He also got the bath in the nursery and then was put under the warmer because his temperature dropped too much from the bath. These are the reasons I refuse all this stuff now. My others I haven't done anything with.

We do the hearing test a couple weeks after birth since I have to go somewhere else because of a homebirth and I will be doing the PKU at the ped. office 3 or 4 days after birth since my midwife doesn't cover it in her fee. It's also better to do it a few days later when the milk can actually start reacting with their bodies. Luckily I have a great ped and he thinks its great I homebirth









ldybg610, I would also look into the circ a little more. My boys aren't circ and they are both just fine. Neither has ever had an infection. I had a friend whose son wasn't either and had some infections but his ped assured it wasn't because he wasn't circ. There's a lot of misinformation out there.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raene* 
People all feel differently about PKU. For us, the brochure we were given sounded silly, it's an extra ouch for baby, and if we found out there was a problem we wouldn't do anything differently. So...it's unnecessary in our family. I can see how it might be helpful for people who are more *pro-meds* and pro-docs, though, if they wanted to do something about a problem that might come out.


You do know it is a dietary change, right? If your baby had celiacs, you'd do a gluten-free diet, wouldn't you?

It doesn't sound like you have researched this decision and metabolic diseases very thoroughly.


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## melijack1 (Nov 18, 2008)

This. PKU picked up hypothyroidism in me 31 years ago. Without that test, and the synthroid I have been on since I was 2 weeks old, I don't know if I'd even be alive or normal now. I was born with a completely nonfunctioning thyroid gland. One small, inexpensive, pill every day saved my life, and sustains my life. And like a previous poster said, some of these disorders can be solved by dietary changes which wouldn't require medication. I find it hard to believe this "we would do absolutely nothing different" attitude, because some of the disorders PKU picks up are so easily managed, and so devastating if unmanaged. Please think about this a little further. Your choice is your own, but please, just, do some more legitimate research.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Did not do vitamin K or eye goop. I did give a short bath in a bowl just after birth.

My midwife will do the PKU in a few days.

And, I think it's really rather irresponsible to avoid the PKU. It's not very invasive, you can just nurse your baby through it most times. Even if you can't, it's pretty important. One heel prick and a few drops of blood and that's it. For something that's potentially lifesaving, I'd say that's definitely an issue where the benefits outweigh the risks.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Raene* 
People all feel differently about PKU. For us, the brochure we were given sounded silly, it's an extra ouch for baby, and if we found out there was a problem we wouldn't do anything differently. So...it's unnecessary in our family. I can see how it might be helpful for people who are more pro-meds and pro-docs, though, if they wanted to do something about a problem that might come out.

I've also heard that sometimes positives come up for rare disorders and they're false positives, which stresses out the whole family and ends up being for nothing. Not something I'd really want to go through, but again, that's just me.

You would "not do anything differently" if your child had a life-threatening metabolic disorder that required a special diet? Really?? REALLY??!! You'd rather let your child develop brain damage and possibly die? I'm just floored by this statement.

I also can't understand the fear of "false positives" (which isn't true, it's a screening test, and a "false positive" is actually just a result indicating additional testing is needed). What about the risk of an actual positive?


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## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

Wow. An extra 'ouch' versus death or massive brain damage. Seriously?

I am a retired 12 month EPer. My son (who likely has a metabolic disorder, but one that can't be screened for yet) developed an intolerance to all intact proteins, even in my breast milk, even AFTER I reduced my diet to 4 ingredients in an effort to continue providing him with breast milk. He is still medically fragile, but at 25 months he is ALIVE, and happy. He was starving to death a year ago because he could not digest my milk (or anything else with protein, for that matter).

I simply DO NOT believe that any of you- faced with the situation I was- would have just watched your baby starve to death to avoid testing and medical intervention. It's all well and good to think these things from the comfortable position of having healthy children, but I encourage anyone who thinks the newborn screening tests are 'silly' to mosey on over to the Special Needs forum and ask what it's like to raise a medically fragile/disabled/SN child.


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## jackson's mama (Apr 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *preemiemamarach* 
I simply DO NOT believe that any of you- faced with the situation I was- would have just watched your baby starve to death to avoid testing and medical intervention. It's all well and good to think these things from the comfortable position of having healthy children, but I encourage anyone who thinks the newborn screening tests are 'silly' to mosey on over to the Special Needs forum and ask what it's like to raise a medically fragile/disabled/SN child.









:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I refused the PKU with my first. I did it with my second, who didn't cry, but with my first it was that I wanted to avoid the extra 'ouch.' The disorders it tests for, while very severe, are also extremely rare. To make the ever vaulted driving a car comparison, we can say that we should not risk our children's lives for our convenience, shame on us, we should not drive our vehicles, no? I don't think it's omgz end of the world to refuse the PKU test. I would do it in future, but I fail to see the reason for this level of rage really.


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## MiamiMami (Feb 1, 2005)

Raene- are you confusing PKU with the quad screen done during pregnancy? That's the only thing I can think of that would make your statement make sense.


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## marlygf (Mar 5, 2003)

I think it was this level of rage because of her choice of words. Some people have experienced it and it can be very scary.


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## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I refused the PKU with my first. I did it with my second, who didn't cry, but with my first it was that I wanted to avoid the extra 'ouch.' The disorders it tests for, while very severe, are also extremely rare. To make the ever vaulted driving a car comparison, we can say that we should not risk our children's lives for our convenience, shame on us, we should not drive our vehicles, no? I don't think it's omgz end of the world to refuse the PKU test. I would do it in future, but I fail to see the reason for this level of rage really.

because metabolic disorders can be devastating beyond what parents of healthy kids could even imagine.

The car analogy doesn't fit here, either (it rarely does), because sometimes you HAVE to use a car (like me, I live in the boonies and we can't sell our house right now and live elsewhere), so it's not always *just* convenience.

So yeah, to me, it's omgz the end of the world for someone to refuse it JUST because it's a millisecond of pain, or because they think it's silly, or because they 'don't do medical interventions'. I still maintain every one of you would move heaven and earth to get help for your child if they got as sick as mine has been.

Maybe my perspective on my child going through a heel prick is different, since he's been through multiple surgeries and more pain than my husband and me combined. and i'd put him through it again if i had to, because he's alive and in my lap right now.


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

DDC crashing. It's good to know you have to have actual breastmilk before the PKU can be really considered accurate. I know I had it done with my son but I don't know exactly when and I am going to ask about this at my next midwives appointment (they deliver in a hospital). I learn a lot of great stuff here, thanks for keeping me informed!

(Also, a heel stick just isn't a big deal to me. We had to have Harrison's heel pricked a few times in the days after birth because of jaundice levels and he never even woke up for any of them). I am very natural-minded but a simple heel stick for something potentially devastating is a total no-brainer.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Moved to Birth and Beyond, in accordance with the DDC guidelines.


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## akat (Jun 30, 2009)

I think the rage is because she said she would do nothing if the screen revealed a problem - i.e. would let her baby become brain damaged/die rather than change diet. As fun as it is to let out some righteous anger on a stranger online, I think that she is simply confused. She has misunderstood what the PKU test is for, and has it confused with, probably, the NT screen or something like that. Admittedly, we should all be a careful about making hasty assumptions/mistakes like that, but it's different from her meaning that she would watch her baby starve and die. Hopefully her care provider will figure her misunderstanding out and enlighten her, if she doesn't come back to check this thread.

Aside from that, I have heard that some of the disorders in the test are appropriate right away, although some of them require a day or week or whatever, maybe that's why they do it once right away and once later? Anyone know the real deal on that?

Does anyone know if I can refuse Vit. K and eyedrops in Michigan? I plan to refuse both and delay the Hep.B til pre-puberty, but do the PKU.

Can more people elaborate about refusing the bath? So far I saw these reasons: someone retracting foreskin, the baby getting cold and then 'needing' to be warmed on a warming table, and taking away the smell of the gunk? Are there other reasons, too? This is the first time I've heard of this one, it wouldn't have occurred to me. I figure, also, I wouldn't want to delay nursing and skin-to-skin for a bath.


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## marlygf (Mar 5, 2003)

I don't know of more reasons to refuse the bath but those are enough for me. Having my baby taken away for longer than they need to just doesn't make sense. Like I think I mentioned, I didn't even bond with my first until he was 6 months old. I need that time right after and anything to interfere with it is not good. Also, there really isn't a whole lot of aneed for a bath. it's not like they're dirty. I mean wipe off any blood, but it just seems to silly to wash them right after.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Well DD was covered in green mec and it was yucky so I went with the bath. Where I had DD, everything was done in-room or I wouldn't have allowed it. To each her own in this case.


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## Veritaserum (Apr 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaturalMindedMomma* 
only did the PKU.

no bath, no circ, not vaccines, drops, or ointments.









:


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

We aren't doing the eye drops or Vit K, and we wouldn't circ. I don't think they give a hep B vaccine here at birth - I don't remember it from my previous pregnancies.

I will do the hearing test and the metabolic test - although metabolic diseases are rare, they don't show up until they have caused damage, and it's not a dangerous test.

I will have the baby get a bath, even if I do it in the room with towels. I like to try to clean off any resistant or virulent bacteria which might be in the hospital before we go home. It doesn't mean that it has to be done right after the birth, but shortly before leaving hospital, I think, is a good idea.


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## orangebird (Jun 30, 2002)

Raene, would you please come back and clarify this? It has some of us quite confused and concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raene
People all feel differently about PKU. For us, the brochure we were given sounded silly, it's an extra ouch for baby, *and if we found out there was a problem we wouldn't do anything differently. So...it's unnecessary in our family. I can see how it might be helpful for people who are more pro-meds and pro-docs, though, if they wanted to do something about a problem that might come out.*

I've also heard that sometimes positives come up for rare disorders and they're false positives, which stresses out the whole family and ends up being for nothing. Not something I'd really want to go through, but again, that's just me.
You would not treat your child if the screening led to the diagnosis of one of the diseases?


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

I feel very fortunate that the hospital we delivered my son at left us alone to nurse and bond for a couple hours before doing weighing, measuring or asking about a bath. THey did the bath when they moved me to a recovery room, which was good because I REALLY needed to empty my bladder and I needed the help of the nurses because of the stupid epidural. I sent my husband with them to make sure there was no retracting or anything like that.

By the time we got to the recovery room, the baby was back with us.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

No HepB, no vitamin K shot, no eye ointment, no circ, delayed cord clamping, no suctioning.
We did the hearing screening (it was done while DS was sleeping). PKU (I was just worried that CA would sample his DNA, it says they do in the fineprint. It bugs the hell out of me.) They did a blood sugar test cause he was low birth weight. Not sure if I would do that again. They took blood once for bilirubin levels (he was quite jaundiced). If another babe is jaundiced, I will go for blood from the arm - it is less traumatic to get than milking the foot.

We had oral vitamin K which we had DS suck off our fingers about 2 hours after birth or somewhere in those first 2 hours (it is a blur honestly). I pushed for 2:36 and he was a little bruised, so we gave it to him. I did not want to shot whatsoever and was prepared with the liquid stuff.
I was put on magnesium sulfate for a while and basically at wit's end during my hospital stay (the treatment as it turns out was completely unnecessary). DH and the nurses were pushing for a bath and I was so tired at day 3 that I agreed.







They washed him for 1 minute and used Johnson & Johnson on him. I am still livid about it. Won't happen again!


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

No HepB (not in the USA). Vit. K. No eye goop (CS, not in USA). #1 was a girl. If it had been a boy we would have circ'ed but not till the 8th day (religious circumcision). Newborn screening done a week or so later, plus an additional thyroid test--I don't know why they needed 2 but I did it as I'm hypothyroid and had dose adjustments during pregnancy. Maybe they needed to do a full TSH/T4 test.

Next time, will do the same. I won't fight the eye goop, I think. The thing is, I know my DH didn't cheat; at the same time, I don't blame my HCP for not putting much stock in my assertions of fidelity. (I have friends who are HCPs and they all say the same thing: most of the women whose partners did cheat swear they didn't have any clue.) I will vaccinate for HepB eventually but I don't see the need for an extra dose at birth.


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