# going to a no-sleepover policy



## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

After much consideration, I've decided on a no-sleepover policy for my kids - none at our house, no attending sleep-overs at other people's homes.

Rather than asking every potential friend if the family has guns, or former convicted criminals, or drug users, etc...., or not asking and then worrying - I think a no-sleepover at all policy will be the fairest all around policy. The kids will survive.

Does anyone else have this policy?


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

My mom had this policy with me when I was a child. I did end up going on one sleepover but it was at my friend's house whose mom babysat me everyday after school until my mom got home from work.

I have some very mixed feelings about the whole thing, but now these are different times. At the time I thought it was terribly unfair of her. By the time I got to high school I just stayed over friend's houses without her permission and of course she thought I went missing, was hooking up with boys, and doing all sorts of drinking and drugs...which was somewhat true...But I always insisted that if she was not so overprotective I would not have felt the need to rebel so hard. I mean I reallllllllly rebelled. I was bad. I turned out ok, but it was touch and go for a long time.

I think as parents we have to find a balance. Saying no to everything the kids want to do all the time leads to rebellious behavior. Saying yes to everything the kids want leads to spoiled, unprotected kids.

Talk with your kids about each situation that arises and discuss with them the pros and cons of saying yes or no. I think being open-minded and honest with them about your feelings and your information is the best route rather than having a hard and fast rule.

If sleep overs are going to be part of the culture of the kids in your 'hood, then have get-togethers and meet the families. Communicate with the parents and develop healthy relationships. If that is not possible then having some hard and fast guidelines about certain activities is probably a good bet.

I am just a huge advocate for open, honest dialogue that includes the children in the decision. Just my $0.02.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't really have a policy but it hasn't come up yet with dd.
She has never asked for a non-relative to sleep over or sleep at a non-relative's home.
I think I would want to be more flexible and take it on a case-by-case basis to be fair to everyone. I would not want dd staying with someone we didn't know pretty well but if we knew someone well I would allow a sleepover if dd wants it.

OP- I'm curious about your no sleepover policy to avoid asking questions about each potential friend's background. I'm not criticizing. I'd really just like to know more about your reasoning and implementation of the policy.

Do you plan to allow other children to play at your home or your children to play at another person's home at any point under your policy?
Are you concerned about the same issues being there (guns, criminal history, drugs) during the day? If you aren't concerned about these issues outside a sleepover situation why aren't you concerned?
If you don't ask the questions about the playmate's home and background then do you worry that the no sleepover policy might provide a false sense of security?
Will your kids be with other kids only at a neutral location like school or the park or with you present?
Do you plan to have this policy until your children are adults or is this only for when they are very young?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

My dh grew up with that policy and was very hurt by it. It was unfair, unjustified and made him more of a "weirdo" than he already was (identical twin geek...







)

I had sleep overs (in both directions) My parents always knew the families involved and they benefited me in many ways. I got to spend more quailty time with friends than I would have otherwise. I got to take friends to our beach house and create countless memories. I got to see up close how other families functioned.

-Angela


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## Lingmom (Apr 10, 2007)

Are you applying that policy to summer camps as well? What about friends or relatives whose families you trust very much?

I don't have a no-sleepover policy... but nor has my daughter ever been invited to one (cause she's only 5.5!) I imagine I'll take it case by case. And assuming she's interested, I would definitely not want to deny her experiences of girl scout summer camps and church camps that I have such great memories of.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

My dd is too young for sleepovers, but I'll chime in... (and I don't know how old you children are, which might make a difference)

I think that by not allowing sleepovers you may be limiting their ability to see and recognize dangerous situations for themselves. As a child I was allowed sleepovers, but I was also allowed to choose where I went and where I stayed. My mum talked to me about my friend's parents and their homes, how safe and cared for I felt there, etc. I was also allowed to call at any time if I wanted to come home early. I think it gave me good opportunities to grow and be exposed to how other families operate. And lots of sleepless nights and junkfood, too.

I know for a while my younger sister was doing sleepovers every weekend and chronically exhausted, so she was not allowed sleepovers. My parents did let her stay pretty late at friend's houses, but she had to come home to sleep.

The kids will survive, but will they understand the rule or resent it?


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree with what MelW said. FWIW, I do allow my daughters to have sleepovers, but only with families that I know very well and have spent time with. I have no problem with telling them that sometimes we don't know a family well enough to have them sleep over, or for my kids to go to their houses. I think that's a little more fair than just a "none at all" policy. I also think that by never letting them sleep over at other's houses you may be sheltering them way too much, and create a child that never knows that to do beyond his/her four walls, or when ever mom or dad isn't there. I also believe it's important for kids to be exposed to the way that other families function, so that they learn to explore and respect differences between them.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

If I take it on a case by case basis, then I'm in the position of making some parents/kids/families feel "not good enough." If I make it a blanket policy for now, then it's not a case of saying, no my son can stay at this friend's house, but not yours. We live in a small rural area where everyone knows everyone, with class sizes of around 16 students, and a lot of poverty. So when someone like myself who has not lived here forever, and is not living in poverty, says yes to some and not to others, it makes me look like a snob. It doesn't matter if I say that we just don't know the family well enough.

What if we do know them well enough to know that we don't want our kids at their home - guns, cigarette smoke, violent video games, lax safety standards? I think their kids are fine and their parenting methods are obviously working for their families- but I don't want my kids to be in that environment for 8 or more hours. What if I said? "Sorry, I see that you let your toddler ride in your lap in the front seat of the car and your other kids without seatbelts in the back. That's fine for you, but I don't trust you with my child for ten hours overnight." For now, at the elementary school level, I'd rather put out the blanket policy of no sleepovers.

I've got to say that I've never regretted being over protective with my kids. I have however regretted a few instances of going against my instincts and saying yes where I should have said no.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

One of you asked about summer camps. I plan to try a day camp with the kids this coming summer. If that works out, then my older child can try the week long in-residence camp. I would only choose a camp that had a clear policy on abuse prevention and that adhered to some sort of a national standard.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I don't have a no-sleepover policy, but I wouldn't let DD sleep over at any family's house that I didn't know pretty well.

I do think our children miss out on a lot because our culture has become so much more paranoid, to the point where it hurts our children. I think it has been said that the fear of bad things happening to our kids actually causes more damage to them than allowing the very unlikely risk of something happening to them. Its hard to let them go, though. Sometimes I wonder how I survived my own childhood! We even slept outside in tents, with no parents within earshot. I always brought a friend camping with me, and neither set of parents even had cell phones.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I have the same policy. But, the nice thing is that at least in my group of friends, sleep overs are a thing of the past. Most parents these days are uncomfortable with it so it's never come up.

I personally know someone who spent the night at her girlfriends house and the dad came in and molested her while she slept. These were good family friends. You never can tell so there is no way in the world I would ever allow it.

I also don't see the point? Why in the world would you need to sleep at someone else's house? I hated sleeping over at friends houses as a kid - hated it. As my kids get older, they can hang out, have dinner with friends etc... but when it comes time for bed, they're coming home.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Why no kids sleeping over at your house? I can almost understand the no sleepover policy at someone else's house, but I can't understand why you won't let other kids sleep over at your house. You can always tell the other parents that you're too paranoid to let your dd out of your sight, but you'd be happy to have their kids at your house.

I wouldn't have this policy myself. I will be very careful about where my kids play and when/where they sleepover. But sleepovers are an important part of being social in our community, and I don't want my kids to miss out on that.

I don't think the risks are any greater now than they were 30-35 years ago when I was doing this. I prefer to ask the difficult questions (do you have guns? Then no, I'm sorry, my kids can't spend the night there, but you're welcome to send them to my house; will you be home all the time? who else will be there with the children? where is your alcohol located? Can your kids get access to it? ) and make myself unpopular with a few people than to severely limit my kids' social opportunities. I remember my mom doing this kind of thing, and while it embarrassed the heck out of me at the time, I survived and I was safe.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

The complete no-sleepover policy avoids the whole judging individuals issue. My main issue is making kids feel bad. I don't worry about upsetting parents so much as I worry about making someone else's little children feel bad. Now my kids can say "my mom doesn't allow any sleepovers" instead of saying "My mom says I can't come to your house because ...."


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Thanks Amcal. It's nice to hear from another person with a similar policy.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

My kids are too young to really do sleepovers although my son has been asking to have a couple of his friends spend the night. I have said sure - I can't wait until my kids want to have sleepovers, although I would prefer to have them at my house.

I used to have (and go on) lots of sleepovers as a child and I have great memories of them. Staying up late, talking, playing pranks, eating lots of junk, watching TV late, etc. I want my kids to have that kind of fun as well. Plus, I think it gives them the chance to really start to learn some independence.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

I've got mixed feelings with the whole thing...I had fun at some sleep overs, but was exposed to things at others that really traumatized me....all with families we knew really well. We live in a small community as well, with family nearby. I've thought of the family only rule, but to be honest sometimes, you just can't trust family.







My biggest concern is sexual abuse.
It's my job as a parent to protect my children and if that means they miss out on a few activities, so be it. Better safe than sorry....Gratefully, my children are too young. We have some time to figure this out.
So, for those of you who do allow: what age?
Does anyone have a sleepovers-at-our-house-only policy?
Thanks for the thread, op! I'm interested in everyone's approach.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
I've got mixed feelings with the whole thing...I had fun at some sleep overs, but was exposed to things at others that really traumatized me....all with families we knew really well.

You know, this is a really good point. I had a good friend - my parents knew the family well. But, every time I spent the night, the girl would bring out sexual things. She showed me her dad's naked girl playing cards, her mom's vibrator, her dad's playboy collection etc... It made me so uncomfortable and I felt trapped. I never told my parents because I was embarrassed. I just think that no matter how well you think you know someone, until you've lived in their house, you don't really know them. I think children can have so many fun activities together that doesn't involve sleeping over at someone else's house.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

Yeah, and it's always the person you'd never think it of, it seems. I just feel like it's my duty to protect them. I think you can do that and still give them plenty of opportunities to have fun. It really is a sad world, tho that we even need to worry about things like this.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I think I will be using google alot when my kids are sleeping over.

Oh and BTW-the police office can do a criminal check real quick if you just call them.

Get to know the familys...

And whats wrong with having kids over to your house?


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
Yeah, and it's always the person you'd never think it of, it seems. I just feel like it's my duty to protect them. I think you can do that and still give them plenty of opportunities to have fun. It really is a sad world, tho that we even need to worry about things like this.









I dont think there is actually more crime, etc. I just think we hear about it more because we have the internett and 24 hour news.

Check out http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org

Smile!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Mixed feelings..mixed feelings...mixed feelings...*sigh* With my kids getting older I am going to have to face this. Just a few days ago my 9 yr. old DS was invited to sleep over at the home a boy who lives across the road. I said no...he was VERY unhappy with me.








...mixed feelings...


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I dont think there is actually more crime, etc. I just think we hear about it more because we have the internett and 24 hour news.

Check out http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org

Smile!









I don't think she's saying there is more crime, just that it's a sad world that horrible things happen to children and that we even have to think about it. I know its happened throughout history. The majority of women my mom's age and older that I know were sexually abused in one way or another - they just never talked about it back then. At least we're talking about it now and can make informed choices.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Mixed feelings..mixed feelings...mixed feelings...*sigh* With my kids getting older I am going to have to face this. Just a few days ago my 9 yr. old DS was invited to sleep over at the home a boy who lives across the road. I said no...he was VERY unhappy with me.








...mixed feelings...

This is why I will have a no sleep over policy from the very beginning so it's not even a quesiton. My children will know that we don't sleep over at other people's houses.

As far as children sleeping at our house, I wouldn't have a problem with it but, at some point, they are going to want to reciprocate and won't understand that I trust my house but not theirs. I'd rather just have a no sleepover policy period.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
This is why I will have a no sleep over policy from the very beginning so it's not even a quesiton. My children will know that we don't sleep over at other people's houses.

As far as children sleeping at our house, I wouldn't have a problem with it but, at some point, they are going to want to reciprocate and won't understand that I trust my house but not theirs. I'd rather just have a no sleepover policy period.









I AM going to have to pick a stance here. I had a no sleepover policy growing up all through elem. school & I HATED IT.







I was in girl scouts & they let me go camping & do sleepovers with them, but anything else was a firm NO. In middle school they changed their minds. I have to say though, in high school I did some things that I would be TERRIFIED for my DD to do. My family was (& IS) clueless about it all. I don't trust people. But I can see these issues stemming from being raised that way, don't wanna repeat mistakes. ONE time - when DS1 was about 6 - I let him go to a neighbors house for a COUPLE HOURS and something pretty disturbing happened. I'm just really conflicted.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I don't think she's saying there is more crime, just that it's a sad world that horrible things happen to children and that we even have to think about it. I know its happened throughout history. The majority of women my mom's age and older that I know were sexually abused in one way or another - they just never talked about it back then. At least we're talking about it now and can make informed choices.

Yes but you dont have to let it take over your life. And I think that sheltering kids is very damaging sometimes. Like no sleep-overs...like some other posters said-it kind of scarred them.

We have to keep our kids safe. But we can't keep them in a sling forever.

(Mine are still young so remind me I said this in about 3 years.







)


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I dont think there is actually more crime, etc. I just think we hear about it more because we have the internett and 24 hour news.

Check out http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org

Smile!









You may well be right. It basically comes down to providing a healthy
(as much as we can, anyway) environment to raise our kids...we each have to decide what we are comfortable with, kwim? nak


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

I can't think of any over-protective things my parents did that scarred me - irritated me yes, but scarred me no.

That's true- we do all have to choose what we're comfortable with. There's no right or wrong answer for this particular question. Still, I do like hearing from others like Amcal that share a similar policy and reasons.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

My dd's friend's mom has that policy. She certainly has the right, but it makes us feel not trusted.


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## geek_the_girl (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 

Does anyone else have this policy?


My DD is 5 and HS'ed so it hasent come up yet. Actually ive never even thought about until now. Just me personally though? I believe I would have this same policy.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Yes but you dont have to let it take over your life. And I think that sheltering kids is very damaging sometimes. Like no sleep-overs...like some other posters said-it kind of scarred them.

We have to keep our kids safe. But we can't keep them in a sling forever.

(Mine are still young so remind me I said this in about 3 years.







)

I don't think that if I choose not to allow sleepovers, that I'm letting my worries for my children consume me (not saying you meant that, either--just clarifying, lol). But I do think that being sexually abused is a bit more traumatic than not being allowed to sleepover (again, not saying that just because someone goes to a sleepover, it will end in abuse...).
There are many dangers in life, many that we cannot control. But, I can control to some extent what my dc are exposed to by being an assertive mom/parent. I don't know if this is coming out right (I'm nak, which says it all).
If I do decide to selectively allow sleepovers, I'll be setting some ground rules from the get-go. I'd have to know the family very well, I'd educate my dc on what is/isn't appropriate for them and for others pertaining to them, and I'd send a cell phone and tell them to call if they were uncomfortable in any way...but I'd still be concerned about sexual abuse--I know way too many people who've been molested--not from internet stories or the news.








My opinion only, not endorsing anyone to feel the same way, lol


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Yes but you dont have to let it take over your life. And I think that sheltering kids is very damaging sometimes. Like no sleep-overs...like some other posters said-it kind of scarred them.

We have to keep our kids safe. But we can't keep them in a sling forever.

(Mine are still young so remind me I said this in about 3 years.







)

Seriously? I really don't think that not allowing my child to sleep over at someone's house is sheltering them. There are tons of things they're allowed to do, they're active, involved, have lots of friends etc... but, I draw the line at sleeping over at someone's house. That's my line. It doesn't have to be yours but the insinuation that if I don't put my child in what I consider to be a very vulnerable position I'm somehow damaging them is ludicrous.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

Some of my best childhood memories are from sleepovers with friends. I can't imagine not allowing them for my own children.


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## treehugginmama (Apr 25, 2003)

I have a no sleep over policy for my kids sleeping somewhere else but they can have friends sleep over here.
I don't care how well we know someone, knowing someone doesn't mean they are not an abuser. I am a survivor so I'm probably a bit paranoid but I will do whatever I need to do to protect my children so they don't have to go through what I did and still deal with to this day.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Seriously? I really don't think that not allowing my child to sleep over at someone's house is sheltering them. There are tons of things they're allowed to do, they're active, involved, have lots of friends etc... but, I draw the line at sleeping over at someone's house. That's my line. It doesn't have to be yours but the insinuation that if I don't put my child in what I consider to be a very vulnerable position I'm somehow damaging them is ludicrous.









: Kids can have very normal & full lives, all while sleeping in their own beds.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

We have no such policy at our house. In fact, there's a friend staying over tonight.

I do set some limits- such as "only one sleepover per week" because they don't really SLEEP and then she's tired and cranky the next day if she doesn't sleep in the next morning. I won't let her have a sleepover if she's been tired and cranky from lack of sleep the week before, or if the friend she wants to invite is currently fighting with my other DD.

I had some pretty unhappy results with having 2 girls sleep over at once, so the rule is now 1 overnight guest at a time. I will make an exception for DD's 13th birthday party (she turned 13 in early Dec but hasnt' had her party yet.)

I let my kids sleep over at friend's houses if I know the familes.

DS is still too young for sleepovers- I think the girls started around age 8 or 9; I was 9 at my first sleepover.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

To clarify, I think sleepovers at MY HOUSE are a great idea, and a great way to get to know my kids friends. When they ask for that to happen I will happily allow it.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

My parents were friends with my friends' parents. My mom would lead girl scouts with them, or they went to our church, or volunteered together in the PTA. With only once exception, their values matched closely.

I was allowed to go to sleepovers all the time. No alcohol, no sex, nothing bad except prank phone calls. My friendships deepened over those nights of secret talks and movie watchings. There is something unique that happens late at night with slumber parties. It's a wonderful time.

Kids need time to be kids w/o adults. I understand wanting to prevent harm from occuring. But at what point will you let your child spend the night away from home? College?


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jjawm* 
Kids need time to be kids w/o adults. I understand wanting to prevent harm from occuring. But at what point will you let your child spend the night away from home? College?

They could stay at my parent's house if they wanted but other than that, yeah, probably college. I just don't see the need to sleep at someone else's house.

But, I guess I'm lucky. Our current group of friends don't do sleep overs either. None of the moms I hang out with IRL think sleepovers are a good idea so it's not even an issue.

And, I had some very close relationships growing up and never once did I sleep at their house. The one girl's house I did sleep over at, I haven't talked to since in years and years - since I was a child. I don't think sleeping over at someone's house is a requirement for building intimate relationships with your girlfriends.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jjawm* 

Kids need time to be kids w/o adults.

I totally get this and they have time without adults. My girls and their friends play in their room, I don't interrupt. They go to dance and gymnastics, they go over to friends houses etc... But really, at the age where children would be doing sleep overs, there still needs to be parental supervision. Yes, they need time without adults but like any other activity, there still needs to be a parent available.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Seriously? I really don't think that not allowing my child to sleep over at someone's house is sheltering them. There are tons of things they're allowed to do, they're active, involved, have lots of friends etc... but, I draw the line at sleeping over at someone's house. That's my line. It doesn't have to be yours but the insinuation that if I don't put my child in what I consider to be a very vulnerable position I'm somehow damaging them is ludicrous.

As someone married to someone who felt damaged by this policy- it can happen.

Sure, it's reasonable when you're talking 3 yr olds. Even 5 yr olds, sure. Probably most situations 7 year olds it's still reasonable. When you're talking 10 yr olds and 12 yr olds and literally EVERYONE else is allowed to go to slumber parties and have friends spend the night, then yeah, that can be damaging to a child.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
They could stay at my parent's house if they wanted but other than that, yeah, probably college. I just don't see the need to sleep at someone else's house.

See, I think this *is* a parenting problem. As parents I see our job to ease our children into adult-hood. That takes steps. Kids who all of a sudden go off to college and are overnight adults tend to be the ones that don't handle it so well. I would rather that my kids transition more smoothly from childhood to adulthood- over years, instead of overnight.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I don't think there's that many *everyone's* when a child is homeschooled.

A HUGE thing for me is KNOWING my child can get help in an emergency, I don't think it's right to expect a 10 yr. old to be able to help themselves like that.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
See, I think this *is* a parenting problem. As parents I see our job to ease our children into adult-hood. That takes steps. Kids who all of a sudden go off to college and are overnight adults tend to be the ones that don't handle it so well. I would rather that my kids transition more smoothly from childhood to adulthood- over years, instead of overnight.

-Angela

I wholeheartedly agree with this...BUT, imo, there's a HUGE leap between being 10 & ready to go off to college.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
See, I think this *is* a parenting problem. As parents I see our job to ease our children into adult-hood. That takes steps. Kids who all of a sudden go off to college and are overnight adults tend to be the ones that don't handle it so well. I would rather that my kids transition more smoothly from childhood to adulthood- over years, instead of overnight.

-Angela

Ok, first, I'd love to see the research that back up your belief that children who don't spend the night at other children's houses have problems when they go off to college. That's just ridiculous.

Of course it's our job to see our children into adulthood. That's a given. But, I think I can teach my child about responsibility, making decisions, safety, following their gut instincts etc... without them spending the night at someone else's house. These are things we work on and talk about in daily life - I don't need to put my child in a vulnerable situation to teach her about adult hood.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I agree, lot's of ways to teach lots of things with a safety net still in place.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
As someone married to someone who felt damaged by this policy- it can happen.

Sure, it's reasonable when you're talking 3 yr olds. Even 5 yr olds, sure. Probably most situations 7 year olds it's still reasonable. When you're talking 10 yr olds and 12 yr olds and literally EVERYONE else is allowed to go to slumber parties and have friends spend the night, then yeah, that can be damaging to a child.

-Angela

Again, I think times have changed. When I was a child, people did spend the night. Now, not so much. I have nieces and cousins ranging from 10 - 13yo and none of them have sleep overs. This topic has come up before in past threads and I asked my SIL and aunts about it and for them, it's never been an issue - according to them, it's just not done anymore. Maybe it's a regional thing - I don't know but I don't know anyone who allows their children to spend the night at other people's house. Nor has it been an issue with my nieces/cousins.

Again, I would allow children at my house with the understanding that my DD isn't allowed to spend the night elsewhere. If they're ok with that, I'm ok with that.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I wholeheartedly agree with this...BUT, imo, there's a HUGE leap between being 10 & ready to go off to college.

Well sure- but if the policy is to NEVER let the child sleep away from home until college....

-Angela


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

The same arguement could be made about homeschoolers - that they're somehow damaging their children because they don't allow them to learn in a school setting - Oh my! How are they going to cope with college??? It just doesn't make sense. Children don't need to spend the night at other people's house any more than they need to be educated in a public school to make them ready for adulthood. As parents, we talk to our children, we teach them, we surround them with positive, enriching experiences, we have open communication, supportive loving relationships etc... That's how we prepare them for adulthood.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't think it's the same at all. I would happily allow my child to be gone all day at an activity- but don't plan to ever send them to traditional school (until college...)

I think it's a false sense of security that tells you that you are somehow protecting your child by not letting them spend the night anywhere else.

They can just as easily be exposed to things during daylight hours or molested during daylight hours.

The no sleep overs must be regional or socio-economic based -because they still happen here with great regularity.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

n/m...too much personal info.


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Just curious... Does anyone have any statistics about children being molested/harmed in any way at sleepovers? Ds just turned 6, so the issue of sleepovers hasn't come up yet.

I am also wondering how your own sleepover experiences have effected your choice to allow/not allow sleepovers for your kids?

For those of you who have said no to all sleepovers will you change that policy when your kids are in their teen years? When I was teenager we had sleepovers all the time. In my circle of friends the moms all got to know each other and were comfortable letting us sleep at each others houses. We always had a blast watching scary movies, talking about boys, etc. My mom would wake up in the morning and find 6 girls sleeping in the family room and make breakfast for all of us. I have some really great memories.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

It's not just molestation & HUGE things like that that turn me off from the idea.

And, yes, I think there's a time and a place for sleepovers. For NOW, my house only. My oldest child is 9, in no way am I harming anyone by having this policy now. Of course, this will be revisited from time to time. I can't say when as we aren't there yet.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't think it's the same at all. I would happily allow my child to be gone all day at an activity- but don't plan to ever send them to traditional school (until college...)

I think it's a false sense of security that tells you that you are somehow protecting your child by not letting them spend the night anywhere else.

They can just as easily be exposed to things during daylight hours or molested during daylight hours.

The no sleep overs must be regional or socio-economic based -because they still happen here with great regularity.

-Angela

I totally disagree. No one ever said that things couldn't happen to our children elsewhere. Obviously things can happen but if you sky dive, drive race cars, hand glide and other dangerous activities, you increase your chances of having something happen. I think all those of us who don't allow sleep overs are saying is that we plan to minimize the risk when and where we can. Obviously things can happen else where but, just because it can happen anywhere, doesn't mean I should put my child in situations where I feel they are vulnerable.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
It's not just molestation & HUGE things like that that turn me off from the idea.

I totally agree - it's not just molestation. But, that's a big one. It's my child being exposed to other things that go on when parents are asleep. Sneaking out, smoking, calling boys, being exposed to sexual situations - there are a million and one situations that girls alone together in the middle of the night can come up with. I know - I was there when I spent the night at friends houses. It was uncomfortable - I didn't want to smoke, I didn't want to look at porn magazines, I didn't want to sneak out and meet boys. And, I'd like to think my child would never participate in that stuff but really, when everyone is doing it..... and, you can't always judge by what you see. Some of my friends in high school who got in the most trouble had the best parents, they went to Catholic school, went to church, parents were well known - they're the ones who ended up pregnant at 16, who did drugs etc...

Yes, I realize I can't control everything, nor do sleep overs make children drug addicts and teen mothers.

Again, I just don't see the need for it and I guess I'm lucky I don't live in an area or have friends where this is done so hopefully, it will never be an issue.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

I just don't see what sleepovers have to do with transitioning to adulthood.

Jobs can transition kids to adulthood. Various types of camps may help with the transition to living in a dorm-type situation, although I'd be super picky about which ones. 2 year local colleges can transition kids into 4 year colleges with dorms.

I don't see a childhood sleepover as transitioning to adulthood in any way.

I also don't see molestation as the only danger, though it's a big one. Isn't most molestation perpetrated by acquaintances?

What about homes without functional fire alarms? go-carts and 4 wheelers without helmets? or those who think it's no big deal to take a pile of kids out in the car with no safety belts or booster seats? Those are all physically dangerous. If I have to send my kids to a sleepover with a common-sense safety checklist, then it's better to avoid them all together.

If it were easy to say yes to one or two families and no to all of the others, I might consider it. However, in this small rural community, that's not possible to do in a fair and non-hurtful way. It's better to have a blanket no-sleepover policy in our situation.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Will the policy change in the teen years? I don't know. I would certainly reconsider it at that point.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

How is it that guns, molestation, riding around in the front seat and round about bad parenting aren't going to affect your child during AM playdates?


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm still conflicted about sleepovers. Dd is 6 and has spent the night at our friends' house a couple times. She's friends with both the little girl and little boy. I worry a little because I know that my friend is a little more lax than I am (they live in a far busier neighborhood and the kids play outside and I know that sometimes my friend isn't outside with them. That worries me. I let that little girl spend the night once and truthfully while the girls had fun, there was a lot more headaches than it was worth. But now that they've done it a few times I feel like a big meanie saying no more. Like some of the pp, I'm just really conflicted about it. I also had some stuff happen in jr high that while not abuse, was really uncomfortable (I was the goody goody who didn't want to drink and do drugs and my friends totally turned against me and did some pretty awful things to me) and kind of soured me on them too.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Okay- here's my thinking in as logical a form as I can manage tonight









First- absolutely I agree that ANY time in the care of other adults should be:
adults the parents know well
adults the parents feel comfortable with
a reasonably safe environment
a situation that parents AND child feel comfortable with (if it seems off- listen to that voice)

That said, the only way to promise total safety of our children is to wrap them in bubble wrap and keep them in the closet. That does not teach them anything.

One of my biggest tasks of parenthood is to provide my child with a variety of experiences that will nurture them and help them grow into strong and stable adults.

Spending time *outside* our family unit is a big part of providing those experiences.

Of course this must be done in a method appropriate for the age and maturity of the child. My dd is nearly 3.5 and has never spent the night away from me. She is not ready.

Now, in a "school age" child, spending the night with close friends provides an excellent opportunity to learn about the way others live. Hey, some people take showers in the morning instead of at night! Different people have different bed-time rituals. In some families DAD cooks breakfast! Whatever. There ARE differences. And yes, some can be learned during the day, some however are really only experienced when sleeping away from home.

That said, there is also something to be said for the experience of childhood. Staying up all night and _fill in the blank_ (playing video games, watching movies, doing makeup, telling stories, playing dolls, whatever)

This can be -in and of itself- a valuable experience.

If there is a *specific* reason you don't feel comfortable with a *specific* situation, I feel that we owe it to our children to explain how we come to that decision. Then they get to see the thinking behind our decision making. Whether it's clear-cut (Sammy's parents don't have the same safety rules we do) or more nebulous (I don't feel like we know Jane's family well enough to do that yet) they will learn to discern the signs for themselves. What do they learn if it's just forbidden?

-Angela


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## geek_the_girl (Apr 12, 2006)

We all do what we think is is right for our kiddos and for oursleves no?
Everyone is different. Every dynamic is different.


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## geek_the_girl (Apr 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

First- absolutely I agree that ANY time in the care of other adults should be:
adults the parents know well
adults the parents feel comfortable with
a reasonably safe environment
a situation that parents AND child feel comfortable with (if it seems off- listen to that voice)


Ok..Now when she is older I might be able to agree to these terms..


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Okay- here's my thinking in as logical a form as I can manage tonight









First- absolutely I agree that ANY time in the care of other adults should be:
adults the parents know well
adults the parents feel comfortable with
a reasonably safe environment
a situation that parents AND child feel comfortable with (if it seems off- listen to that voice)

That said, the only way to promise total safety of our children is to wrap them in bubble wrap and keep them in the closet. That does not teach them anything.

One of my biggest tasks of parenthood is to provide my child with a variety of experiences that will nurture them and help them grow into strong and stable adults.

Spending time *outside* our family unit is a big part of providing those experiences.

Of course this must be done in a method appropriate for the age and maturity of the child. My dd is nearly 3.5 and has never spent the night away from me. She is not ready.

Now, in a "school age" child, spending the night with close friends provides an excellent opportunity to learn about the way others live. Hey, some people take showers in the morning instead of at night! Different people have different bed-time rituals. In some families DAD cooks breakfast! Whatever. There ARE differences. And yes, some can be learned during the day, some however are really only experienced when sleeping away from home.

That said, there is also something to be said for the experience of childhood. Staying up all night and _fill in the blank_ (playing video games, watching movies, doing makeup, telling stories, playing dolls, whatever)

This can be -in and of itself- a valuable experience.

If there is a *specific* reason you don't feel comfortable with a *specific* situation, I feel that we owe it to our children to explain how we come to that decision. Then they get to see the thinking behind our decision making. Whether it's clear-cut (Sammy's parents don't have the same safety rules we do) or more nebulous (I don't feel like we know Jane's family well enough to do that yet) they will learn to discern the signs for themselves. What do they learn if it's just forbidden?

-Angela











I feel so sad for kids who grow up restricted from fun, typical childhood experiences. There are ways to protect your children without holing them up under your watchful eye all the time. And from my own experience as a kid, the more restrictions, the more rebellion.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Also, I feel the need to add... I had sleepovers (both friends at my house and me at friends' houses) from around age 4 on through high school. NEVER (not once) did anything happen that made me at all uncomfortable or in danger. And I was a total goody-goody









-Angela


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Ok this thread is now at the point that it's making me giggle. I do not need to have my child spend the night at someone's house to experience all the things you just talked about. Watching movies, doing make up, telling stories are all things that can be done with girlfriends during the day. I so don't get why you all seem to think the only way a child can have a good, meaningful childhood is to spend the night at people's house.

I get that you had a good experience. Good for you. I did not. I hated it, I was exposed to stuff that children shouldn't be exposed to, I know someone who was molested by her friend's father.

I don't need to justify my decision to anyone but to say that those of us who don't do sleep overs are somehow harming our children is just ridiculous. It's a parenting choice like any other. You don't see me telling you that you're neglecting your children and setting them up for abuse if you let them go - you don't see me telling you that your children are going to have experiences that scar them for life if they spend the night else where. That's your decision. Mine is to not allow sleep overs. This does not mean my children's lives won't be full of fun experiences, relationships, adventures etc... We all set boundaries for our children - this is mine. It would be nice to have it respected since really, all anyone is throwing out is their opinion. Not once has a study been cited, a link provided showing that somehow children who aren't allowed to spend the night fare worse, are less ready for adulthood, aren't prepared for college etc... You just say that based on nothing really - just a way you think you can prove your point but, unless you can back it up, it's nothing more than your opinion. Just as it's my opinion that sleep overs are unnecessary.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honolula* 









I feel so sad for kids who grow up restricted from fun, typical childhood experiences. There are ways to protect your children without holing them up under your watchful eye all the time. And from my own experience as a kid, the more restrictions, the more rebellion.

I don't mean to be rude but this argument is getting so old. Just because a parent doesn't allow sleep overs doesn't mean that they restrict their children from fun, typical experiences. Nor does it mean that they are under our watchful eye all the time. It means that in this one situation, we are not comfortable. That's it. That's all it means. Not allowing sleep overs does not translate to not allowing any other fun childhood experiences and to imply that it does is insulting.

I could say that about any rule you might have - oh, you don't allow sweets? Well sweets are an important childhood experience, how can you not let your children have sweets? Won't let your kids play outside after dark? Well, that's an important childhood experience - our parents did it, we did it - it's important not to keep your kids under your watchful eye all the time - let them be! It just doesn't make sense. We all parent to our level of comfort.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

My children love to have sleepovers both at friends' houses and here. Actually, we had someone over last night and my 7yo is at someone else's house tonight. I always know the parents and they know me. I know that they don't have guns or sex offenders in the house.

I had friends who were police officers and I knew that they had guns in the house. I didn't let my son sleep over there because of it. I didn't trust that they put the guns away 100 percent of the time.

I don't like any rule like that that is set in stone, with no room for exceptions under certain circumstances. What's so difficult about getting to know someone before allowing sleepovers? Who minds being asked about guns? And...if you have to ask someone if there's a convict in the house..then, no the child shouldn't be sleeping over.

Lisa


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## LookMommy! (Jun 16, 2002)

My children have been have sleepovers since they were out of night diapers (oldest dd at 4.5 with another family while we were both at summer camp, ds at bf around 6 - he was a bedwetter until late, and dd3 before her 4th birthday together with her brother at my friend's house while we were out of town). I never had negative experiences, as far as I know neither have they. Sometimes they change their minds right before bed and we talk about it on the phone and then I pick them up if they want to go home. No big deal. I've only had 1 or 2 3 a.m. calls in hundreds of sleepovers (usually the other kid, at our house). We don't use the phone on Shabbat, so I don't allow sleepovers then unless they are 100% sure. Same with out of town sleepovers (especially when we homeschooled, sleepovers were important to save on driving). My dd has sleepovers at a boy's house (she is almost 7), but this will probably end soon, naturally. I agree with Ruthla, that the worst part is the post-sleepover crankiness. I trust the families in our school and community - I've never had reason to distrust them. (some have guns, but this is Israel, and I trust that guns are not handled lightly) I think my kids have a good sense about where they feel comfortable, and I trust them. And I love when one of my kids is out for the night - somehow, going from 3 to 2 is soooo quiet!

I don't disagree with the OP's policy - it is just completely foreign to us. It would be like telling my kids (6.5, 11.5, 14) no sugar foods out of the house. Yeah, right.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MtBikeLover* 
My kids are too young to really do sleepovers although my son has been asking to have a couple of his friends spend the night. I have said sure - I can't wait until my kids want to have sleepovers, although I would prefer to have them at my house.

I used to have (and go on) lots of sleepovers as a child and I have great memories of them. Staying up late, talking, playing pranks, eating lots of junk, watching TV late, etc. I want my kids to have that kind of fun as well. Plus, I think it gives them the chance to really start to learn some independence.


Agreed 100%. Sleepovers are some of my fondest memories from childhood, and I wouldn't dream of denying my kids that fun.

I also don't think that we're living in such different times now, or that there is any more to worry about now than there was when I was a child. I think it is sad that a parent would outright ban sleepovers.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Also, I feel the need to add... I had sleepovers (both friends at my house and me at friends' houses) from around age 4 on through high school. NEVER (not once) did anything happen that made me at all uncomfortable or in danger. And I was a total goody-goody









-Angela

Same here!!! Started sleepovers at 4, and never had anything even remotely wrong or uncomfortable happen at one . . . and they continued through high school with great frequency.

My daughter hasn't had a sleepover yet, but I expect we'll start soon. She has asked a few times to have a friend over for the night, and it just hasn't been convenient. It's inevitable, though.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

I think it's the blanket ban that people are reacting to. If there was a family very much like yours, with the same safety standards and values, and your kids were old enough for sleepovers, were excited about the idea, etc etc---but the rule is "no" so still no? That's the part that seems "off" to many posters in this thread.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I agree with algna and honolula.

Some of my best childhood/teenage memories are from sleepovers.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Ok this thread is now at the point that it's making me giggle. I do not need to have my child spend the night at someone's house to experience all the things you just talked about. Watching movies, doing make up, telling stories are all things that can be done with girlfriends during the day. I so don't get why you all seem to think the only way a child can have a good, meaningful childhood is to spend the night at people's house.

I get that you had a good experience. Good for you. I did not. I hated it, I was exposed to stuff that children shouldn't be exposed to, I know someone who was molested by her friend's father.

I don't need to justify my decision to anyone but to say that those of us who don't do sleep overs are somehow harming our children is just ridiculous. It's a parenting choice like any other. You don't see me telling you that you're neglecting your children and setting them up for abuse if you let them go - you don't see me telling you that your children are going to have experiences that scar them for life if they spend the night else where. That's your decision. Mine is to not allow sleep overs. This does not mean my children's lives won't be full of fun experiences, relationships, adventures etc... We all set boundaries for our children - this is mine. It would be nice to have it respected since really, all anyone is throwing out is their opinion. Not once has a study been cited, a link provided showing that somehow children who aren't allowed to spend the night fare worse, are less ready for adulthood, aren't prepared for college etc... You just say that based on nothing really - just a way you think you can prove your point but, unless you can back it up, it's nothing more than your opinion. Just as it's my opinion that sleep overs are unnecessary.









:

I don't even really have an opinion on whether or not we'll do sleepovers, but I agree that the level of 'drama' WRT this topic is absolutely ludicrous.

Honestly? A lot of the posts seem to be saying "but, but, but, EVERYBODY else does sleepovers! And if my child doesn't do it they'll (at best) stick out and (at worst) be deprived of manna from Heaven!"

HUH?!?







Insert public schooling, formula feeding, CIO, vaccinations, etc etc etc into the above statement and it becomes obvious that... who gives a flying flip what 'everybody else' is doing? Isn't MDC all about trying to make the best decisions we can for our families, *regardless* of what everybody and their dog is doing?

I don't know, the debate on this is just odd to me. And I don't think it has to do with the 'outright ban' aspect of it, either. Because people up and down this board ban things outright, have boundaries for their families... whether it be formula, or cribs, or traditional schooling, or tv, or vaccines, or plastic toys etc etc etc. Why is this different?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Watching movies, doing make up, telling stories are all things that can be done with girlfriends during the day. I so don't get why you all seem to think the only way a child can have a good, meaningful childhood is to spend the night at people's house.

Yes they can all be done. But there is something to be said for doing them to the Nth degree to get them out of your system.

Dh says he DID feel harmed by this policy growing up. It is very much a sore point. His mom tried the same thing (you can do the same things







) he felt, and still feels that it was a cop-out. It was just her throwing her weight around and being authoritarian. He felt very much like he missed out.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Also, I feel the need to add... I had sleepovers (both friends at my house and me at friends' houses) from around age 4 on through high school. NEVER (not once) did anything happen that made me at all uncomfortable or in danger. And I was a total goody-goody









-Angela

I was also a goody-goody & I honestly, in high school, did VERY scary things. Things I would consider locking my DD up if she did. Her life (as in literally continuing to breathe) come 1st. I did things that definately jeopardized that & at the time I thought was totally normal. Kids are NOT mini adults. However, your earlier post about knowing families WELL comes into play here. I have to admit part of the problem I had as a kid was very likely caused by the fact that in high school I just WENT, my family never even MET half the kids I hung out with. We did STUPID things...like leaving the country. (We'd go party with army guys in Canada, etc...) BAD BAD BAD idea.

I don't think we really disagree...I just don't like hearing that I have a "parenting problem" and that I am harming my kids cuz I won't let a nearly 10 yr. old go away overnight. That is nonscense. Like I said, lot's of time between that & college.

I think maybe if they were invited by very (VERY) close friends at this point it wouldn't be an automatic no, I'd have to think about it. Someone who I KNEW shared my values & who had a safe place to offer my child.

My most recent "episode" was a kid who lives across the street coming & asking HIMSELF if Zach could spend the night. "My mom said it's ok!" Um...NO! The PARENTS should do the asking, not my job to go hunt the inviters down. He was mad at me, but I was right.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I don't mean to be rude but this argument is getting so old. Just because a parent doesn't allow sleep overs doesn't mean that they restrict their children from fun, typical experiences. Nor does it mean that they are under our watchful eye all the time. It means that in this one situation, we are not comfortable. That's it. That's all it means. Not allowing sleep overs does not translate to not allowing any other fun childhood experiences and to imply that it does is insulting.

I could say that about any rule you might have - oh, you don't allow sweets? Well sweets are an important childhood experience, how can you not let your children have sweets? Won't let your kids play outside after dark? Well, that's an important childhood experience - our parents did it, we did it - it's important not to keep your kids under your watchful eye all the time - let them be! It just doesn't make sense. We all parent to our level of comfort.

Actually disallowing sleepovers across the board IS restricting children from a fun typical experience.

And I don't have any blanket rules like not allowing sweets or playing after dark etc. For that very reason.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisa49* 
with no room for exceptions under certain circumstances. What's so difficult about getting to know someone before allowing sleepovers? Who minds being asked about guns? And...if you have to ask someone if there's a convict in the house..then, no the child shouldn't be sleeping over.

Lisa









:









Use good decision making skills and your children will learn them.

Set arbitrary rules and your kids learn nothing from the experience.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Yes they can all be done. But there is something to be said for doing them to the Nth degree to get them out of your system.

Dh says he DID feel harmed by this policy growing up. It is very much a sore point. His mom tried the same thing (you can do the same things







) he felt, and still feels that it was a cop-out. It was just her throwing her weight around and being authoritarian. He felt very much like he missed out.

-Angela

See, I think that's a different issue. I am most certainly NOT throwing my weight around, I run a VERY loose ship. Most think me permissive. I don't have rules. (Well, I have 2.







) I love my kids and don't think it is vital for their development to sleep away from home at their ages.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
I think it's the blanket ban that people are reacting to. If there was a family very much like yours, with the same safety standards and values, and your kids were old enough for sleepovers, were excited about the idea, etc etc---but the rule is "no" so still no? That's the part that seems "off" to many posters in this thread.

yes that.

Rules should be logical and based in good decision making. To say at any point that NO child in your family will EVER be allowed this typical, normal, fun experience is what's over the top.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
However, your earlier post about knowing families WELL comes into play here. I have to admit part of the problem I had as a kid was very likely caused by the fact that in high school I just WENT, my family never even MET half the kids I hung out with.

I don't think we really disagree...I just don't like hearing that I have a "parenting problem" and that I am harming my kids cuz I won't let a nearly 10 yr. old go away overnight. That is nonscense. Like I said, lot's of time between that & college.

I think maybe if they were invited by very (VERY) close friends at this point it wouldn't be an automatic no, I'd have to think about it. Someone who I KNEW shared my values & who had a safe place to offer my child.

My most recent "episode" was a kid who lives across the street coming & asking HIMSELF if Zach could spend the night. "My mom said it's ok!" Um...NO! The PARENTS should do the asking, not my job to go hunt the inviters down. He was mad at me, but I was right.









Like I said, I have NO problem with saying to a specific child- you can not go on THIS sleepover right NOW for THIS reason. *THAT* will teach a child how to make good decisions.

What I have a problem with is a blanket rule that "our family doesn't do sleepovers" That does not teach them anything they can use later.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia* 







:

I don't even really have an opinion on whether or not we'll do sleepovers, but I agree that the level of 'drama' WRT this topic is absolutely ludicrous.

Honestly? A lot of the posts seem to be saying "but, but, but, EVERYBODY else does sleepovers! And if my child doesn't do it they'll (at best) stick out and (at worst) be deprived of manna from Heaven!"

HUH?!?







Insert public schooling, formula feeding, CIO, vaccinations, etc etc etc into the above statement and it becomes obvious that... who gives a flying flip what 'everybody else' is doing? Isn't MDC all about trying to make the best decisions we can for our families, *regardless* of what everybody and their dog is doing?

I don't know, the debate on this is just odd to me. And I don't think it has to do with the 'outright ban' aspect of it, either. Because people up and down this board ban things outright, have boundaries for their families... whether it be formula, or cribs, or traditional schooling, or tv, or vaccines, or plastic toys etc etc etc. Why is this different?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
What I have a problem with is a blanket rule that "our family doesn't do sleepovers" That does not teach them anything they can use later.

-Angela

Yes, but we DO have this policy NOW. (Could change tomorrow, but I doubt it...







) I think it's ok to have a blanket policy for a length of time. Too young is just too young.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
See, I think that's a different issue. I am most certainly NOT throwing my weight around, I run a VERY loose ship. Most think me permissive. I don't have rules. (Well, I have 2.







) I love my kids and don't think it is vital for their development to sleep away from home at their ages.

And perhaps it's not. But it sounds like you would be open to a situation where you KNOW the family, you KNOW your child will be safe, you KNOW your child is ready and all parties involved (both kids and the other parents) are well, involved and on board.

I have no issue with having *requirements* for things like this. What I have a problem with is the -Our family will never sleep away from home before college-

That's just absurd IMO. But more importantly- doesn't teach your children anything except that mom has weird random rules.

-Angela


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
If I take it on a case by case basis, then I'm in the position of making some parents/kids/families feel "not good enough." If I make it a blanket policy for now, then it's not a case of saying, no my son can stay at this friend's house, but not yours. We live in a small rural area where everyone knows everyone, with class sizes of around 16 students, and a lot of poverty. So when someone like myself who has not lived here forever, and is not living in poverty, says yes to some and not to others, it makes me look like a snob. It doesn't matter if I say that we just don't know the family well enough.

What if we do know them well enough to know that we don't want our kids at their home - guns, cigarette smoke, violent video games, lax safety standards? I think their kids are fine and their parenting methods are obviously working for their families- but I don't want my kids to be in that environment for 8 or more hours. What if I said? "Sorry, I see that you let your toddler ride in your lap in the front seat of the car and your other kids without seatbelts in the back. That's fine for you, but I don't trust you with my child for ten hours overnight." For now, at the elementary school level, I'd rather put out the blanket policy of no sleepovers.

I've got to say that I've never regretted being over protective with my kids. I have however regretted a few instances of going against my instincts and saying yes where I should have said no.

This is the post that stands out to me. Especially the part about worrying about looking like a snob. I don't make my parenting decisions based on other other people's perceptions of me. And honestly I think you'll look like a snob by not allowing your kid any sleepovers, so if that's really a concern for you, that is something you should consider.

Anyway, I am I selective about where my kid can go, daytime or nighttime. I don't want him in a house with guns reguardless of time of day, same with smoking, and adults or older children that I don't know. Ds is only 3 so he's never spent the night away from me, ever, but when he's older he'll be allowed to spend the night at close friends houses.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And perhaps it's not. But it sounds like you would be open to a situation where you KNOW the family, you KNOW your child will be safe, you KNOW your child is ready and all parties involved (both kids and the other parents) are well, involved and on board.

I have no issue with having *requirements* for things like this. What I have a problem with is the -Our family will never sleep away from home before college-

That's just absurd IMO. But more importantly- doesn't teach your children anything except that mom has weird random rules.

-Angela

Sometimes it's hard for me not to take things personally, I keep forgetting others are arguing my side in this thread too.









No, I don't think kids need to be banned from sleepovers until college, I most definately didn't say that. Although if the right friend never surfaces I may do it that way.







I hate saying "I will do X at X age" because we just don't know until we're there. But I think that perhaps 12 or 13 is a very reasonable age to start sleeping away from home & I can't see that as having hindered them. Some may say there's not a big difference but I see a 10 yr. old and a 12 yr. old as VERY different.

I do know my child & trust them, but peer pressure lives. No amt. of self assurance will combat it all. I can't say I had self esteem issues & I did go with the crowd alot, I just didn't see the harm. And they thought I wasn't "that kind of kid" for sure. If I openly told them what all I was doing they wouldn't even believe me...which is problamatic itself. *sigh* It's a wacky world...


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Actually disallowing sleepovers across the board IS restricting children from a fun typical experience.

And I don't have any blanket rules like not allowing sweets or playing after dark etc. For that very reason.

-Angela

Once again, this is where we differ. Sleepovers are not a typical experience in my circle of friends. No one does it. It was a typical experience for *you* But, your experiences are not my experiences.

We don't rule our children in authoritarian ways. We spend a lot of time with our children, talking to them, teaching them, sharing experiences with them etc... But there are rules in our family and I'm comfortable with those rules and explaining the reasoning behind them to my children when and if necessary.

Again, I don't need to justify my decisions to you or anyone else just as you don't need to justify your parenting decisions to me. Everyone needs to parent to their comfort level.

Qtopia - thank you for your post. You stated what I've been trying to say in a much more eloquent way than I ever could.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And perhaps it's not. But it sounds like you would be open to a situation where you KNOW the family, you KNOW your child will be safe, you KNOW your child is ready and all parties involved (both kids and the other parents) are well, involved and on board.

I have no issue with having *requirements* for things like this. What I have a problem with is the -Our family will never sleep away from home before college-

That's just absurd IMO. But more importantly- doesn't teach your children anything except that mom has weird random rules.

-Angela

Oh good Lord! Seriously? How is this rule any different from others. How offensive!!! If you have a rule in your house, I would NEVER tell you that it's some weird random rule. I truly can not believe you just posted that those of us who have this rule have some weird random rule. That's just so offensive.

Ok, I'm going to step away from this thread. It's becoming insulting.


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## swellmomma (Jan 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
If I take it on a case by case basis, then I'm in the position of making some parents/kids/families feel "not good enough." If I make it a blanket policy for now, then it's not a case of saying, no my son can stay at this friend's house, but not yours. We live in a small rural area where everyone knows everyone, with class sizes of around 16 students, and a lot of poverty. So when someone like myself who has not lived here forever, and is not living in poverty, says yes to some and not to others, it makes me look like a snob. It doesn't matter if I say that we just don't know the family well enough.

What if we do know them well enough to know that we don't want our kids at their home - guns, cigarette smoke, violent video games, lax safety standards? I think their kids are fine and their parenting methods are obviously working for their families- but I don't want my kids to be in that environment for 8 or more hours. What if I said? "Sorry, I see that you let your toddler ride in your lap in the front seat of the car and your other kids without seatbelts in the back. That's fine for you, but I don't trust you with my child for ten hours overnight." For now, at the elementary school level, I'd rather put out the blanket policy of no sleepovers.

I've got to say that I've never regretted being over protective with my kids. I have however regretted a few instances of going against my instincts and saying yes where I should have said no.

I have not read all the posts yet but I have to say this comment really rubbed me the wrong way. You are essentially saying that if the family lives in poverty the home environment is not good enough for your child to go sleep over in. THis is offensive, first off as someone who lives in poverty I can tell you right now my home is safer and more child friendly than many affluent family homes I know. I do not own guns, alcohol is not permitted in my home, I don't leave the children alone etc. YEs there is some homes this is the case but it is not restricted to the level of income coming in. I think your policy is over the top imo, and really does make you look like a snob when you say it's because you don't live in poverty and they do so therefore they are not good enough. I can understand wanting to be safe but that goes with all families not just the poor ones.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 

I do know my child & trust them, but peer pressure lives. No amt. of self assurance will combat it all. I can't say I had self esteem issues & I did go with the crowd alot, I just didn't see the harm. And they thought I wasn't "that kind of kid" for sure. If I openly told them what all I was doing they wouldn't even believe me...which is problamatic itself. *sigh* It's a wacky world...









It may have been just luck, but I can say I NEVER gave in to peer pressure.










-Angela


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

As the OP, I too am surprised at the level of drama. I expected differing opinions and different reasons. I did not expect the judgementalism that a no sleep-over policy would scar a child for life, that it was a horrible thing to do for a child.

Some posters seem to be saying that since sleepovers are a cultural norm, that I'll damage my child by not letting them participate in a cultural norm.
Obviously I disagree.

Our decision is well considered and well thought out. On Mothering magazine, I did not expect harsh judgements over not participating in a cultural norm. People choose to not vax, to homeschool, to Waldorf school, to ban sugar, to ban plastic- all sorts of things not within the cultural norm- yet in most cases, these decisions are supported and respected.

Why would anyone assume that we don't disccus these decision to our children or that our homes are completely authoritarian? I'm laxer than some parents and stricter than others, laxer on some issues and stricter on others.

I haven't been scarred or damaged by any of the protective decisions that my parents made, not even by some of the less wise decisions that my parents made. I'm quite comfortable with our no-sleepover policy and I'm quite comfortable with other parents decisions to allow them.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Oh good Lord! Seriously? How is this rule any different from others. How offensive!!! If you have a rule in your house, I would NEVER tell you that it's some weird random rule. I truly can not believe you just posted that those of us who have this rule have some weird random rule. That's just so offensive.

Ok, I'm going to step away from this thread. It's becoming insulting.

I do NOT have any blanket rules. I think they are not beneficial to anyone. I think that each decision should be made with the information at hand.

I don't think that -across the board, no exception- rules EVER do anyone any good.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Once again, this is where we differ. Sleepovers are not a typical experience in my circle of friends. No one does it. It was a typical experience for *you* But, your experiences are not my experiences.

If it is not done at all in your circle, then there is no reason for the rule. It would never occur to your children.

-Angela


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I'm weary of sleepovers at other peoples houses, but i think having a no at home sleepover policy is unfair, they are on their own turf, how could it be unsafe?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I do NOT have any blanket rules. I think they are not beneficial to anyone. I think that each decision should be made with the information at hand.

I don't think that -across the board, no exception- rules EVER do anyone any good.

-Angela

I tend to agree, and I only have 2. You wil brush teeth & sit in a car seat. I DO think those are terrific, across the board.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
I'm weary of sleepovers at other peoples houses, but i think having a no at home sleepover policy is unfair, they are on their own turf, how could it be unsafe?

Unsafe? Nah...embarassing? VERY likely at our house! I can TOTALLY see DH getting in his jammies & trying to "hang out!"







: But that's a different thread...


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I do NOT have any blanket rules. I think they are not beneficial to anyone. I think that each decision should be made with the information at hand.

I don't think that -across the board, no exception- rules EVER do anyone any good.

-Angela

Really? So if a bunch of mamas on a message board told you you were harming your child by not vaxing, circing, by cosleeping, you'd have an open mind and consider the possibility for your child? After all, these are well accepted social norms - most everyone circs, vaxes and hardly anyone cosleeps, so seriously, your child may not be able to successfully enter adulthood if you don't kick them out of your bed, vax them and circ them.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Swellmomma, I am sorry if my comment offended you. You have completely misinterpreted me. I have not made any assumptions based on a family living in poverty. I said that
"_So when someone like myself who has not lived here forever, and is not living in poverty, says yes to some and not to others, it makes me look like a snob. It doesn't matter if I say that we just don't know the family well enough_."
I can make a decision based on a concrete observation, and someone else will say that I'm a snob - which you Swellmomma just did, proving my original statement with its original meaning. It's better that I make a blanket no-sleepover policy so that there is no question of whether I'm favoring one income level over another.

I don't make any assumptions based on income level. I make decisions based on concrete observations, like seeing the toddlers sitting laps on front seats of cars, smelling the cigarette smoke, and seeing the kids riding 4wheelers without helmets.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
If it is not done at all in your circle, then there is no reason for the rule. It would never occur to your children.

-Angela

Just because it's not done doesn't mean it won't ever come up. I think it's good to think about issues that _may_ come up at some point. Our friends may change, their circle of friends will expand, it's certainly a possibility that it may come up at some point.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Really? So if a bunch of mamas on a message board told you you were harming your child by not vaxing, circing, by cosleeping, you'd have an open mind and consider the possibility for your child? After all, these are well accepted social norms - most everyone circs, vaxes and hardly anyone cosleeps, so seriously, your child may not be able to successfully enter adulthood if you don't kick them out of your bed, vax them and circ them.

To be fair, I think parenting issues & health/safety issues are different. And this topic kind'a crosses into both, hence the drama!


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Five pages - wow - again, I had no idea this topic would provoke such strong heated reactions.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
Five pages - wow - again, I had no idea this topic would provoke such strong heated reactions.

I think that's because, at least for me, being told we are harming our kids is BOUND to envoke a strong emotional reaction. I am a great mom & refuse to listen to anyone tell me I am somehow harming them because I think their too young to go off & sleep away from home.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

Good point rmzbm

by the way, my kids are in kindergarten and 2nd grade. I don't have it in my signature like everyone else.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
My dd is too young for sleepovers, but I'll chime in... (and I don't know how old you children are, which might make a difference)

I think that by not allowing sleepovers you may be limiting their ability to see and recognize dangerous situations for themselves. As a child I was allowed sleepovers, but I was also allowed to choose where I went and where I stayed. My mum talked to me about my friend's parents and their homes, how safe and cared for I felt there, etc. I was also allowed to call at any time if I wanted to come home early. I think it gave me good opportunities to grow and be exposed to how other families operate. And lots of sleepless nights and junkfood, too.

I know for a while my younger sister was doing sleepovers every weekend and chronically exhausted, so she was not allowed sleepovers. My parents did let her stay pretty late at friend's houses, but she had to come home to sleep.

The kids will survive, but will they understand the rule or resent it?

My parents let me do anything i wanted, but i usually called them halfway through the night to pick me up and take me home, and they never denyed picking me up. once i was a teen i could handle staying all night long









but they never denyed someone staying at our house, and i thinking banning that along with outside the home ones is unfair and to restrictive.

I will be doing at home only sleepovers with ds because of his special needs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Unsafe? Nah...embarassing? VERY likely at our house! I can TOTALLY see DH getting in his jammies & trying to "hang out!"







: But that's a different thread...

















i was always scared my freinds would see my dad naked during the night, since he sleeps naked


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 







i was always scared my freinds would see my dad naked during the night, since he sleeps naked









One time I was having a friend sleep over & she was in the bathroom, er...using the bathroom...my Grandpa (Grandparents raised me) WALKED IN ON HER & said "HURRY UP! I need to take a leak!"


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
One time I was having a friend sleep over & she was in the bathroom, er...using the bathroom...my Grandpa (Grandparents raised me) WALKED IN ON HER & said "HURRY UP! I need to take a leak!"


























: oh how priceless!!

I never had anything that exciting. just my freind getting a stomach virus at my house and barfing all the way to the bathroom.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 







: oh how priceless!!

I never had anything that exciting. just my freind getting a stomach virus at my house and barfing all the way to the bathroom.

I remember being WAY more upset than she was too! I was all "I'm sorry, I'm sorry!" She just laughed...ALL my friends ADORED my Grandparents, especially my Grandpa. We lived across the road from the high school & he'd stand outside chatting with everyone after school - I was so embarrased, but they loved him! He also owned the only local bakery, SMALL TOWN, and they'd come hang with him. Good times.


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## Ecstatic (Aug 13, 2007)

We're SO far from this moment ... but, for what it's worth, we're planning on doing a "no sleepover" policy until high school. But, for a totally different reason than the OP - we really don't enjoy caring for other people's kids. We're kind of recluses too, so we don't enjoy most adults, lol. And because of the reciprocation issue in having our child at someone else's house ... yea, we'll just pass on the whole thing.

Besides that, I think, by puberty, if my child doesn't have the right foundation and values (which I will try to instill), I'd have done something wrong. Obviously, she/he will still be exploring and can come to me for anything. But, after puberty ... it's not a matter of foundational values, but building blocks/experiences above the foundation. I had full freedom after puberty. And I was like the model kid, i.e. always called to let parents know where I was, always called if I was late, never smoke or drank or had sex, was in the top ten of my class, etc. But, no one actually said "these are the rules, you must follow them." I just knew it was the responsible thing to do due to my philosophical foundation and values from my parents.

Every child is different, of course. So, I'm flexible. If I haven't instilled the right foundation/values then I'll play it by ear ... you know, lock them in their room until college.


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## delfin (Jul 11, 2007)

i would like to know what people from other countries other than the u.s think about this.
im from argentina and i had lots of sleepovers, never nothing traumatizing happened to me, i had lots of fun, talking and talking with friends until falling asleep. my mom knew the families and it was ok.
im not saying that abuse doesnt happen, but i never felt it as prevalent as people in this board.
i live in mexico now, and im a montessori directress, im aware that kids have sleepovers when the parents trust each other.
the level of paranoia is not the same...how is it for the other non u.s mamas here?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfin* 
i would like to know what people from other countries other than the u.s think about this.
im from argentina and i had lots of sleepovers, never nothing traumatizing happened to me, i had lots of fun, talking and talking with friends until falling asleep. my mom knew the families and it was ok.
im not saying that abuse doesnt happen, but i never felt it as prevalent as people in this board.
i live in mexico now, and im a montessori directress, im aware that kids have sleepovers when the parents trust each other.
the level of paranoia is not the same...how is it for the other non u.s mamas here?

This is interesting because my Grandparents are from the "old country" and said NOONE does that there! (Gram in German, Grandpa is Czech.) I have gone there - both countries - NUMEROUS times, I even did foreign exchange in Germany in 11th grade, sleepovers were VERY common, and kids basically did WHATEVER they wanted & had FEW problems.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfin* 
i would like to know what people from other countries other than the u.s think about this.
im from argentina and i had lots of sleepovers, never nothing traumatizing happened to me, i had lots of fun, talking and talking with friends until falling asleep. my mom knew the families and it was ok.
im not saying that abuse doesnt happen, but i never felt it as prevalent as people in this board.
i live in mexico now, and im a montessori directress, im aware that kids have sleepovers when the parents trust each other.
the level of paranoia is not the same...how is it for the other non u.s mamas here?

im originally from new zealand, born and raised. I moved to the USA 5yrs ago.
mines not coming from paranoia, more of knowing my childs needs, I will have a no sleepover rule for other peoples houses until ds is old enough to handle his specific special needs alone (probably around puberty). Had he been a completly normal everyday boy, i would have let him stay at freinds houses as long as i have met the parents, seen their house/neighbourhood and trust them. like angela, i have no problem telling my child "you cant stay at THAT house because of THIS reason". But I'm not paranoid, so it would have to be a pretty bad house, area or family for me to say no.

I also have no shame in talking to the parents and asking important questions, not just for sleepovers but playdates as well. I would ban a playdate at the non sleepover house along with sleepovers.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I tend to agree, and I only have 2. You wil brush teeth & sit in a car seat. I DO think those are terrific, across the board.









Now now.... they're not across the board... when they're 14 you won't make them sit in a carseat (assuming they fit correctly in the belt)









-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Really? So if a bunch of mamas on a message board told you you were harming your child by not vaxing, circing, by cosleeping, you'd have an open mind and consider the possibility for your child? After all, these are well accepted social norms - most everyone circs, vaxes and hardly anyone cosleeps, so seriously, your child may not be able to successfully enter adulthood if you don't kick them out of your bed, vax them and circ them.

Those aren't "rules" I set for my child. If my child comes to me at 12 or 13 and wants to be vaccinated, I would discuss the issue.










-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Just because it's not done doesn't mean it won't ever come up. I think it's good to think about issues that _may_ come up at some point. Our friends may change, their circle of friends will expand, it's certainly a possibility that it may come up at some point.

And if things change, why is it not possible to decide that a sleepover would be okay in a specific situation?

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I think that's because, at least for me, being told we are harming our kids is BOUND to envoke a strong emotional reaction. I am a great mom & refuse to listen to anyone tell me I am somehow harming them because I think their too young to go off & sleep away from home.

I think it's fine to say they're too young. I don't think it's fine to say they're too young until they're 18









-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Now now.... they're not across the board... when they're 14 you won't make them sit in a carseat (assuming they fit correctly in the belt)









-Angela

I think we're all getting lost in *now* vs. *ever.*

I think sleepovers NOW are probably premature for them developmentally.

I think sleepovers in a couple yrs. will be a cool & fun thing.

I think carseats rock, NOW...unless we want to argue semantics...cuz really, at 14, won't you make her sit in a seat IN the car...you know, as opposed to the trunk?









And to out myself as a total hypocrite - there are for sure times my kids go to bed without brushing. Not often, but it happens.







(Usually because I am tired & don't wanna deal with it.







)

Can we agree...across the board...that we don't really disagree here?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 

Can we agree...across the board...that we don't really disagree here?



















Yep.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think it's fine to say they're too young. I don't think it's fine to say they're too young until they're 18









-Angela

To be completely honest, I haven't been alone with DH is nearly a decade. No joke. I think, when they're 18, I will be pushing them out the door!









...but will still want to know where I'm pushing them too.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









Yep.

-Angela

Cool, I don't like sparring with people I like!


















Not that we were sparing...eh, semantics, not even gunn'a debate the depth of the disagreement, since we've established there isn't one.

Oh man, now the room is spinning...







:


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Really? So if a bunch of mamas on a message board told you you were harming your child by not vaxing, circing, by cosleeping, you'd have an open mind and consider the possibility for your child? After all, these are well accepted social norms - most everyone circs, vaxes and hardly anyone cosleeps, so seriously, your child may not be able to successfully enter adulthood if you don't kick them out of your bed, vax them and circ them.

I considered all of these as _possibilities_ for my child and decided what was/is best for my family.







: still thinking about this sleepover thing


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## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
I think it's the blanket ban that people are reacting to. If there was a family very much like yours, with the same safety standards and values, and your kids were old enough for sleepovers, were excited about the idea, etc etc---but the rule is "no" so still no? That's the part that seems "off" to many posters in this thread.

Yes. That's how I feel about it -- being a blanket statement especially in an effort to protect social circles in a small town seems to be a lot more about the parent looking bad than the child being in danger or vulnerable.

ETA: I realize many of you aren't doing it for the reason listed above, but that's what the OP said in her first post.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

How old are your children? I don't think it's enforceable until 18.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia* 
HUH?!?







Insert public schooling, formula feeding, CIO, vaccinations, etc etc etc into the above statement and it becomes obvious that... who gives a flying flip what 'everybody else' is doing? Isn't MDC all about trying to make the best decisions we can for our families, *regardless* of what everybody and their dog is doing?


I don't think sleepovers come close to comparing to those things. With public schooling, formula feeding, CIO, and vaccinations, the _best_ you can hope for is a neutral outcome, for no harm to be done.

A sleepover is something that has the potential to enhance the child's life and experiences, it's likely to be a fun thing, a happy memory, etc. None of your examples are that.

We don't have any outright, arbitrary rules either, and like Angela, I don't think any good comes from having them.


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## delfin (Jul 11, 2007)

mmmm...
in high school, some friends would come for sleepovers at my house...on saturdays...
because i was allowed to go out at night, to party and they werent.
so that was the way, they were allowed to sleepvers, but we were no longer interested in them...
example of what can happen with the forbidden, hard headed teenagers find their way trough rules


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I don't think there's that many *everyone's* when a child is homeschooled.

A HUGE thing for me is KNOWING my child can get help in an emergency, I don't think it's right to expect a 10 yr. old to be able to help themselves like that.

My homeschooled kids have lots of friends, at church and in our neighborhood.

We don't do sleepovers much yet, but I would only allow them places where I knew the parents well and was confident that the other family would contact me if needed.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

My most recent "episode" was a kid who lives across the street coming & asking HIMSELF if Zach could spend the night. "My mom said it's ok!" Um...NO! The PARENTS should do the asking, not my job to go hunt the inviters down. He was mad at me, but I was right.
*confused*

If it was a kid from across the street, someone you knew, what's wrong with the kid doing the inviting? Why should his mom be making invitations for him? My ds invites neighbor kids over for dinner (after checking with me or dh). I don't go over and ask for him. Also, I have the other parents' phone numbers on our street and they have mine, so if a kid is asking, we could just call the other parent.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
*confused*

If it was a kid from across the street, someone you knew, what's wrong with the kid doing the inviting? Why should his mom be making invitations for him? My ds invites neighbor kids over for dinner (after checking with me or dh). I don't go over and ask for him. Also, I have the other parents' phone numbers on our street and they have mine, so if a kid is asking, we could just call the other parent.

Glad I'm not the only one to find that objection weird.

When I was in first grade, I remember getting a call from a friend, asking if I could spend the night. Went something like, "Yes, I'd love to spend the night. Who is this?"









We always did our own planning like that, and would then put the phone down long enough to ask permission. By eight or nine, I think kids should be doing the asking themselves, with their parents' permission of course. Moms shouldn't be calling each other up to set up playdates at that point.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I think what she's saying is that there needs to be parental involvement in the invitation to spend the night. Those of you who think it's ok for one child to invite another child over to spend the night, once the invitation has been made, do you then clear it somehow with the parents or do you just pack your child up and assume it was ok with the other parents? Personally, if we were having someone over, it would be ok if my DD asked the other child (after clearing it with me) but I would follow up with a phone call to the parents.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I think what she's saying is that there needs to be parental involvement in the invitation to spend the night. Those of you who think it's ok for one child to invite another child over to spend the night, once the invitation has been made, do you then clear it somehow with the parents or do you just pack your child up and assume it was ok with the other parents? Personally, if we were having someone over, it would be ok if my DD asked the other child (after clearing it with me) but I would follow up with a phone call to the parents.

I don't think I would, as long as my child had gotten the details from her friend, and I at least knew the other parent. My mom never tried to chase down my friends' parents or act like we were incapable of making plans ourselves (again, with permission).


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## BiscuitBaby (Nov 21, 2007)

I just had a discussion with DH about this the other night. No sleepovers for our kids at other houses. Other kids can come here, but who knows if anyone will be allowed to come over because DH has a gun.







Law enforcement.


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## Dreaming (Feb 8, 2004)

We won't be doing sleepovers, either.

edited all my tmi.


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## maplesugar (May 24, 2005)

I did let ds do some sleep overs when we lived in a nicer, smaller town. (he was six). Where we live no, I don't trust any of the parents I have come in contact with enough. Spanking seems to be real big around here.

I totally understand why someone would not let their dc participate. I had some good times at sleepovers, but also some creepy ones.

It is our job as parents to protect our children. Fact is, some bad things can go down at sleepovers. I think dc will have to be either well into their teens before I'll allow it again.


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## punkrockmommy (Oct 31, 2005)

I let my dd do sleep overs she is almost 4 and so far she has slept at my aunts house so i could go out for my birthday. Also she has slept over at her best friends house so i could go to night classes. I completely trust her best friends family and we have hung out had dinner at there house and i basicly think of there family as a sudo family. They are her brothers in her and my mind.
I have these grand ideas of being the koolaid mom with 100% juice instead of koolaid and my plans thus far are to know all her friends. to know all the parents and to be involved in her life. I think that by having an open dialogue in her life is the answer. My parents we very strict with me and it backfired. I would rather know who my kid was with and what they were doing then tell her no and having her sneak out later. Which i could see her doing because she is turning out alot like me.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
*confused*

If it was a kid from across the street, someone you knew, what's wrong with the kid doing the inviting? Why should his mom be making invitations for him? My ds invites neighbor kids over for dinner (after checking with me or dh). I don't go over and ask for him. Also, I have the other parents' phone numbers on our street and they have mine, so if a kid is asking, we could just call the other parent.

Firstly, we just moved here so NO I don't know these people. Secondly, I stand behind my position that PARENTS should do the asking.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I think it's fine to have no sleepovers, there are enough waking hours for kids to hang out and form friendships.

That said, the waking hours require the same level of caution in terms of the things that concern you and that you would prefer your children not be exposed to. And then, in the course of kids becoming independent, they will likely be exposed to everything anyway, but you try and manage the best you can the delay or the values they will bring to the table when they encounter things.

I went on only one sleepover as a child. I was an overprotected child and I didn't have that much fun at the sleepover to be honest. I think daytime parties and outings are just as much if not more fun.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Actually, I've become paranoid about bedbugs, since they are making a comeback. And they are nearly impossible to get rid of. So I'm nervous about any of us sleeping in other places, including motels.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Firstly, we just moved here so NO I don't know these people. Secondly, I stand behind my position that PARENTS should do the asking.

Ahhh. Well don't pick a battle over this one because some of us encourage our kids to go interact with the neighbors. If a little boy came over and invited my kids to do anything they hadn't been invited to do before (first time asking them to come over to play, whatever) I would assume my "line" in this little play was to call the mom or go over and see her and make sure communication was complete and accurate.

If my kids were asked to play by someone once and I asked the mom and she said "Oh yes sure, we're pretty open door around here" then when I was comfortable with the situation, I certainly wouldn't interfere with the kids if they are inviting each other over to play.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
Actually, I've become paranoid about bedbugs, since they are making a comeback. And they are nearly impossible to get rid of. So I'm nervous about any of us sleeping in other places, including motels.

This is a good thing to bring up, and I will think about wanting to check mattresses for signs before accepting accomodations (as I understand you can do this, and people were brought up to do it in times past). It's a fairly quick easy thing.

Or I could use a Bed Bug Detecting Dog to visit people's houses first. I'm sure sending a puppy to three months at a canine academy would be expensive, but what price to put on peace of mind?

http://www.absolute-sense.com/bedbugs_ourservices.html

I'm pretty into the bed bug detecting dog idea. Then I could maybe get a doctor's note that I'm allergic to bed bugs (isn't everyone?) and take my dog traveling with me as a service dog.

What I like about MDC is all the great things I learn googling that enhance my life, because of terms generated by MDC discussions.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBecks* 
That said, the waking hours require the same level of caution in terms of the things that concern you and that you would prefer your children not be exposed to.


All of the creepy/sketchy things that happened around me during sleepovers happened after the parents went to bed, so there was a lot less supervision, or chance that someone would unexpectedly walk in the room. We won't be allowing sleepovers until dd is at least a teenager, and even then it will be limited to people we know very very well.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

FWIW I don't remember anything happening that was creepy or sketchy at elementary school sleepovers in the 70s. I don't remember anything bad happening when I attended a week of Girl Scout camp the summer I was 8 when we slept for a week in a platform tent without a counselor. When I was a GS counselor the summer I was 17 (was treated as an adult because I'd completed a year at university), we slept apart from the kids. I don't remember hearing that the kids did anything weird. I was with elementary age kids; the older than Juniors crowd had some discipline issues. Any time you are not in hands on control of your kids' environment ... I just don't know for sure that it would make a happier adult to be raised one way or the other.


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## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

My children are only allowed to spend the night with family. Blanket policy, no exceptions.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
This is a good thing to bring up, and I will think about wanting to check mattresses for signs before accepting accomodations (as I understand you can do this, and people were brought up to do it in times past). It's a fairly quick easy thing.

Or I could use a Bed Bug Detecting Dog to visit people's houses first. I'm sure sending a puppy to three months at a canine academy would be expensive, but what price to put on peace of mind?

http://www.absolute-sense.com/bedbugs_ourservices.html

I'm pretty into the bed bug detecting dog idea. Then I could maybe get a doctor's note that I'm allergic to bed bugs (isn't everyone?) and take my dog traveling with me as a service dog.

What I like about MDC is all the great things I learn googling that enhance my life, because of terms generated by MDC discussions.


You are exploiting my bedbug paranoia to make a sarcastic response. It actually does help me put my bedbug phobia into perspective to get laughed at - but unfortunately there is an old post in Health and Healing that is _9 months long_ about a family that has "just about gotten rid of all the bedbugs, finally, keep fingers crossed" which makes my phobia come back - and I'm pretty sure you weren't posting with my well-being in mind otherwise I'd say thanks. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=bedbugs


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

I respect all of your approaches and I especially appreciate hearing from those with the same or similar policy.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

I had sleepovers all the time. They were really fun. But, to each his/her own. People base things on their own experiences, so I don't think I would try (or want to) convince others. I'd love to have kids sleep over here. I'm ok with DS going out... Of course, I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. I think I'd be happier with more of a group thing (a few kids at a sleepover party). Camp is great.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
You are exploiting my bedbug paranoia to make a sarcastic response. It actually does help me put my bedbug phobia into perspective to get laughed at - but unfortunately there is an old post in Health and Healing that is _9 months long_ about a family that has "just about gotten rid of all the bedbugs, finally, keep fingers crossed" which makes my phobia come back - and I'm pretty sure you weren't posting with my well-being in mind otherwise I'd say thanks. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=bedbugs

You will or won't believe that it was not sarcasm. Bedbugs scare me silly. I would like to have a dog that will detect them, skin cancer, and go with my child to sleepovers to keep her from being molested by someone's father. I spent probably 30 minutes because of the bedbug google researching protection dogs generally and considering when I would have the resources for one.

However, I probably need to research bedbugs to determine if encountering them is a far outlier event. Molesters, no, not far outlier.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

My kids have done very few sleepovers. We are okay with it with families we know well .

I have to say I get irked when I meet other parents who are strict in their rules that the children can _only_ play or sleep over at _their_ house - I say no to that. My children are all school age, 8 and up, not little wee ones any more BTW. I respect their right to make such rules, but I have the right to say no to that arrangement. What if my child wants the support and security of their own home? I have met a few moms who basically say that only their child's needs really matter and that they trust no one else with their kids. Umm, gee, thanks for the insult. You are entitled to that opinion, but it sure doesn't engender trust on my part. If there isn't mutual trust and respect, I see no need for a sleepover, kwim? When a mom looks at me and basically says she doesn't think it is safe for her child to be under my care, fine, but you can be darned sure I will not be entrusting my beloved ones to her care either







:


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
I have to say I get irked when I meet other parents who are strict in their rules that the children can _only_ play or sleep over at _their_ house - I say no to that.

I was telling my mom about this conversation the other day, and that was one of the things that really bugged me. I would not allow my child to sleepover at a friends' if I knew their mom had the rule that it always be at their house. I think it's unfair not to allow my child to reciprocate at her home, and I think it's a bit fishy and insulting too.


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## BiscuitBaby (Nov 21, 2007)

.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BiscuitBaby* 
Since my DD was molested by a minor, 12 years older, I am more concerned with the older siblings of a friend when/if she spent the night. *The molester was a child in a family that I had known before she was born.*

Also, when I was a teenager and spent the night at a friends house, it led to a lot of umm...trouble because I was spending time with her older brother at night when everyone was sleeping. I was in high school and he was over 21.







:

I am trying to keep my kids closer to me because of my experiences. Who knows what will happen in the future. As of now, my 5 year old isn't interested or ready for a sleepover.

most molesters are known to the familys and victims. I'm not concerned about the molestation risk really, just about ds's special needs and him needing a specific environment and routine.


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## BiscuitBaby (Nov 21, 2007)

.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BiscuitBaby* 
I know that. I knew that at the time, but I didn't expect it. I didn't see it coming. I failed her once. I won't do it again.

I know







I wasn't implying you would, more saying it to point out sending kids to only "known" family houses can be even more dangerous than "strangers"


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
You will or won't believe that it was not sarcasm. Bedbugs scare me silly. I would like to have a dog that will detect them, skin cancer, and go with my child to sleepovers to keep her from being molested by someone's father. I spent probably 30 minutes because of the bedbug google researching protection dogs generally and considering when I would have the resources for one.

However, I probably need to research bedbugs to determine if encountering them is a far outlier event. Molesters, no, not far outlier.

I believe you. Sorry I assumed you were being sarcastic. I was certain someone thought my bedbug paranoia was over the top. Lice I can handle; scabies, even... but bedbugs? No way.


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## dbsam (Mar 3, 2007)

My heart is racing, I couldn't read all the threads, and can barely type and will probably delete this tomorrow. But, I was also planning on a 'no sleep-over' rule although friends have told me I shouldn't make my children fear-full.

I stayed at a friend's house when I was thirteen, a freshman in HS. I knew her family since first grade. Each of her siblings was allowed to have one friend over. Her brother's friend raped me during the night. My parents never knew. I cannot take the risk with my children.

I know I will hear that this can happen anywhere - it's just too easy at someone else's home. We may damage our children by making them different and not allowing sleep-overs but we can also damage them by letting them go.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

DBSam - hugs to you.

I think that's a lot more common than people realize.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
After much consideration, I've decided on a no-sleepover policy for my kids - none at our house, no attending sleep-overs at other people's homes.

Rather than asking every potential friend if the family has guns, or former convicted criminals, or drug users, etc...., or not asking and then worrying - I think a no-sleepover at all policy will be the fairest all around policy. The kids will survive.

Does anyone else have this policy?

We have the same rule.

Our kids aren't allowed to start doing sleep overs until the age of 10 and our oldest is actually 12 and has only been on one sleepover in the last couple of years, by choice. The kids, however, can go to grandparents any time they would like, still can't stay more than 1-2 nights max. I want them at home.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BiscuitBaby* 
Since my DD was molested by a minor, 12 years older, I am more concerned with the older siblings of a friend when/if she spent the night. The molester was a child in a family that I had known before she was born.

how sad.

You have to remember too that it's not just the fear that another parent or person in their house might molest your child while they sleep over. There are plenty of perverts out there that just take pictures of little kids, watch them take baths/showers, go in the bathroom, just perverted in their ways while the kids are in their home. They don't have to touch them you know.







I've learned not to trust just anybody just because they seem normal or nice or have been my friend for some amount of years.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfin* 
i would like to know what people from other countries other than the u.s think about this

I have read the entire thread (well, almost). I was born and raised in Italy but we live in Switzerland now. In Italy sleepovers were not common 30 years ago but they are more common now. In Switzerland, they are very common. As alegna was saying we have very few blanket rules in our family mostly for issues of safety (seat belts) health (teeth, sugar) and mutual respect (hitting). We talk most things out and we negotiate solutions that are acceptable to all of us, for other things, including the sleepovers.

I think several pp have it right, you cannot know the other family well enough and here in Switzerland it would be odd for a parent to say that before he/she allows the child to spend the night, he/she would like to see the house. The other family would feel obliged to straighten up the house and invite ME for dinner, which winds up being one more obligation for them. So, because I am not prepared to let dd spend the night with complete strangers, then the invitation needs to come from a family that has already invited us a few times and we know a bit. When we are invited at another family who have kids, I always rather naturally spend time with all the kids so, I get to know the siblings too.

In thinking about a possible slepover I really do understand the danger coming from the little girl's older siblings. So far we only had one invitation that we accepted for dd1. I was really clear with dd regarding my expectations for the sleepover in terms of what she should do and how she should react to anything going wrong. All went well, and she really enjoyed it. I think this is not indispensable in growing up, but it is a nice way of building trust between children and parents. I did have a log chat with the other mom and I was really happy about how dd behaved. I feel she is mature well beyond her 6 years and I have no problems doing this again if it is a family I know rather well.


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

I have read every post in this thread. I'd say the restraint of the no-sleepover moms is commendable.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
.....Dh says he DID feel harmed by this policy growing up. It is very much a sore point. His mom tried the same thing (you can do the same things







) he felt, and still feels that it was a cop-out. It was just her throwing her weight around and being authoritarian. He felt very much like he missed out.

-Angela

So let me get this straight-- you're telling us that because your grown DH still harbors resentment against his mother over sleepovers-- ALL THESE YEARS LATER-- that we should base our parenting and child safety decisions on THAT?!?! Pardon me, but I'd like to think that it would take more than denying sleepovers to make an adult claim to be harmed years later. When you present this as an argument against sleepovers, it really seems to me as something that might indicate a larger problem is the issue-- either on the mother's end, or on your husband's end.

And with that in mind, may I add that not every parent who makes the "no sleepover" decision is being arbitrary or authoritarian? In a country (the U.S. in this case,) where anywhere from 1 in 4 to 1 in 6 girls is sexually violated before they reach the age of 18...93% of those attacks by someone they know-- the decision not to leave a child in the home of others, throughout the night, while the adults are presumably sleeping, is not always made lightly. And this isn't about "knowing" people well. *Let's be honest:* you don't know most people as well as you'd like to think you know them. And you sure as heck don't know all of their spouses and other family members who may be present on any given night. And that's exactly why so many of these crimes against children can be perpetrated. We don't know child molesters when we see them because they know how to present themselves as kind, friendly, decent and safe human beings. From the President of the United States, to the guy sleeping in the gutter tonight-- you don't know who has and who has not violated the rights of a child, and you never will, because most children won't tell and most offenders will never be prosecuted. And thanks to that fact, we outright give these "nice people" easy opportunities to be alone with our children, simply trusting that they won't do anything because they are our family or friends. Ask every sixth woman and 1 in 33 men, and they'll tell you it's true, and that our choices are causing them a lifetime of pain.

None of us can insulate our children in bubble wrap. But each of us has the right to choose our battles, and keep their children safe, as we see fit. We shouldn't have to be insulted because we don't want our kids unneccesarily and irrepairably harmed.

xoe


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I didn't mean anything by sharing his experience other than sharing his experience. He lived with that rule. I put out there how he felt about it.

And yeah, there are all sorts of horrible things that happen. And if you think not letting your kid have a sleepover is going to prevent them, then THAT is a problem.

-Angela


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## binxsmom (Jun 14, 2004)

just gotta say.....i commend the mamas who have a no-sleepover policy. i also support the mamas who permit sleepovers. it's not an easy call, either way, imo.


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
:.....And yeah, there are all sorts of horrible things that happen. And if you think not letting your kid have a sleepover is going to prevent them, then THAT is a problem.

-Angela


Well I don't think that not letting my kid have sleepovers is going to prevent ALL the problems that can happen..... so frankly, then this is NOT _the_ problem. But I sure do think it is an annoyance to have to see so many moms, who simply have a different opinion on the subject, have to put up with being insulted, simply because they don't agree with some people.

I only gave the sexual violation statistics as ONE example of a reason why some parents have not made this decision arbitrarily. There were so many other reasons, my post became exceedingly long, so I had to cut it short. Besides-- the other moms have already mentioned having concerns about guns, fire hazzards, bed bugs, pornography, car safety, drugs and alcohol, sneaking out of the home, having kids of the opposite sex over, and a general lack of supervision by other parents who may very likely be sleeping when the kids are not. The only elephant in the room that _had not_ been discused at this point was the fact that children are the big victims of sex crimes in the U.S. -- and since there's a sex crime commited every 2 minutes in this country, I'd say they are victims both night AND day. All this "poo poo...you're not letting your kid's grow up and learn what it's like in the real world....just choose parents you know very well...you can't protect them from everything..." doesn't cut it with me. I've got a responsibiliy to use what I know about this world-- and human nature-- on my child's behalf. I can't be perfect, but I CAN be as responsible as my prior knowledge and my instincts will allow for. So did you need me to write the 10 page post to spell it all out? Or can I say everyone who has the "no sleepovers" rule is not doing it for arbitrary or authoritarian reasons? And then leave it at that? Because if you need someone to spell things out more than we collectively have, I can do that for you.

xoe


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *binxsmom* 
just gotta say.....i commend the mamas who have a no-sleepover policy. i also support the mamas who permit sleepovers. it's not an easy call, either way, imo.

I totally agree. It's upsetting to see fixtures of one generation's childhood being eroded, one by one, because their safety has become debatable.

xoe


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I understand that parents that have that policy of course *think* they're doing the best thing for their child.

I simply disagree.

I think that their attempts to "protect" their child are misplaced and can tend to be smothering and unhealthy.

I think that using good judgment is important in ALL things.

I think blanket rules do not teach good judgment.

-Angela


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't have many good memories of sleepovers when I was younger. It was the perfect place to be bullied, and I remember the feeling of being trapped until my parents came to get me the next day.

As a teenager, though, I have great memories of overnighters with a few close friends. I was a really good teenager, though, so I never got into any real trouble. LOL

For now, my kids have had cousins sleep over, and I suppose I'd let the oldest sleep at my siblings' houses if they wanted to, but they haven't yet. I guess I'd take it case-by-case and go on how well I know the family and how I feel about it, but my gut reaction is family only, since I trust my sisters and sisters-in-law to look out for my kids (well on my side, but DH's family isn't around, anyway, so with the ones I don't trust to care for them, it's a moot point).


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I understand that parents that have that policy of course *think* they're doing the best thing for their child.

I simply disagree.

I think that their attempts to "protect" their child are misplaced and can tend to be smothering and unhealthy.

I think that using good judgment is important in ALL things.

I think blanket rules do not teach good judgment.

-Angela


Yes, yes, yes.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xoe* 
Well I don't think that not letting my kid have sleepovers is going to prevent ALL the problems that can happen..... so frankly, then this is NOT _the_ problem. But I sure do think it is an annoyance to have to see so many moms, who simply have a different opinion on the subject, have to put up with being insulted, simply because they don't agree with some people.

I only gave the sexual violation statistics as ONE example of a reason why some parents have not made this decision arbitrarily. There were so many other reasons, my post became exceedingly long, so I had to cut it short. Besides-- the other moms have already mentioned having concerns about guns, fire hazzards, bed bugs, pornography, car safety, drugs and alcohol, sneaking out of the home, having kids of the opposite sex over, and a general lack of supervision by other parents who may very likely be sleeping when the kids are not. The only elephant in the room that _had not_ been discused at this point was the fact that children are the big victims of sex crimes in the U.S. -- and since there's a sex crime commited every 2 minutes in this country, I'd say they are victims both night AND day. All this "poo poo...you're not letting your kid's grow up and learn what it's like in the real world....just choose parents you know very well...you can't protect them from everything..." doesn't cut it with me. I've got a responsibiliy to use what I know about this world-- and human nature-- on my child's behalf. I can't be perfect, but I CAN be as responsible as my prior knowledge and my instincts will allow for. So did you need me to write the 10 page post to spell it all out? Or can I say everyone who has the "no sleepovers" rule is not doing it for arbitrary or authoritarian reasons? And then leave it at that? Because if you need someone to spell things out more than we collectively have, I can do that for you.

xoe

With all due respect, insinuating that parents who do allow some sleepovers are not as responsible as you are in regards to their children's protection is insulting too. So is the insinuation that _no_ other parents can ever be trusted to be responsible.

I would not suggest that you have this rule for arbitrary reasons. Without knowing the context of what sleepovers other parents allow, you are making an arbitrary judgment on those other parents, which you do not want them to make about you.

I know some parents who will allow just about any sleepover their child is invited to. I know others who have a no sleepover ever rule. There is a _large_ grey area in between. Every parents deserves respect for the choices they make, not judgment that they aren't allowing their children to grow up *or* suggestions that they are ignorant and irresponsible, probably allowing their children to be molested or bullied.

In my experience, sleepovers were a welcome relief from home. Nothing bad ever happened to me at someone else's house, older siblings or not. Mostly I learned about how caring and respectful some families can be and how a child's life was supposed to be. I can't say that home was so pleasant or safe. My children have only had a couple of sleepovers in situations I had full confidence in. They came home liking some new foods and a little sleepy, that's it. I say no to the vast majority of sleepover requests, but I do like it that there are a couple of safe, happy places for them to be - particularly if an emergency ever arises and they need a place to stay.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I understand that parents that have that policy of course *think* they're doing the best thing for their child.

I simply disagree.

I think that their attempts to "protect" their child are misplaced and can tend to be smothering and unhealthy.

I think that using good judgment is important in ALL things.

I think blanket rules do not teach good judgment.

-Angela

I think blanket statements show limited insight.

Just because some parents don't allow sleep overs doesn't mean that it can be assumed that these parents are overprotective and smothering and that we don't use many, many other situations to teach our children good judgment.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
I think blanket statements show limited insight.

Just because some parents don't allow sleep overs doesn't mean that it can be assumed that these parents are overprotective and smothering and that we don't use many, many other situations to teach our children good judgment.









Notice words like CAN and TEND in my post.

And I think that blanket rules (as a rule







) are misguided and unwise.

-Angela


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I understand that parents that have that policy of course *think* they're doing the best thing for their child.

I simply disagree.

I think that their attempts to "protect" their child are misplaced and can tend to be smothering and unhealthy.

I think that using good judgment is important in ALL things.

I think blanket rules do not teach good judgment.

-Angela

I.....can.....not.....believe that you have just told a group of people, who simply don't want to do with their children what YOU want to do with your children, that their attempts to "protect" their children are misplaced!!! Here you are, doing exactly what you claim to be against-- making a blanket statement about parents who don't allow sleepovers, and characterizing them by one decision that you know of. You use an absolute to say you are against absolutes. Whatever. Unlike you, I don't think every parent who allows their child to have sleepovers is making a mistake. Some parents will have made decisions that turn out to be fine. Some won't. But I also don't think that parents who don't allow sleepovers are making mistakes either. Many of them have their reasons, and their reasons are just as valid for not allowing sleepovers, as yours are for allowing them.

To sum it up, I think your answer just shows that you "think" that you have to be right, no matter what. And that if everyone isn't doing whatever you are doing-- then those who choose to do differently have to be wrong. Think what you like-- but I think the world is big enough to accommodate more than one way of doing things.

xoe


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
With all due respect, insinuating that parents who do allow some sleepovers are not as responsible as you are in regards to their children's protection is insulting too..... So is the insinuation that _no_ other parents can ever be trusted to be responsible.....

Please don't be offended, but I'm going to do my best to keep this short-- because frankly, I don't think we have an argument. I think we have a misunderstanding. And I think if I was willing to put in the time, we'd both know that. After all, you write that you wouldn't say anyone who has this rule is being "arbitrary." And believe it or not-- I don't think everyone who _doesn't_ have this rule is being "arbitrary" either-- so my post wasn't aimed at someone like you. Sleepovers can be a safe and positive experience. But as parents we have to pick and choose which risks vs benefit experiences we can live with, and which we can't. Past experiences obviously play a role in what we choose, and there are only 24 hours in each day-- so time plays a role, too. I can't speak for you, but I don't have the energy to worry about everything, so I pick and choose. I'm not choosing sleepovers...Perhaps you aren't choosing vaccinations. I honestly don't see the reason we need to be insulting each other, when we could be learning from each other, kwim? But if someone is going to insult me, well, I'm not going to sit there as if I don't have any good reasons for making my own choices.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
....Without knowing the context of what sleepovers other parents allow, you are making an arbitrary judgment on those other parents, which you do not want them to make about you......

Ohhh, but I DO think other parents should be making these judgments about me! What's good for the goose is good for the gander, imo. Therefore, we won't be having sleepovers at MY house, either. (Except if someone needs me to watch their child in an emergency.) On top of that, I'm always warning people that our house may not be child-proofed to their liking. Therefore, when parents visit, I always say you need to be aware and watch your children. I have glass everywhere, a lake where a 5 year old has drowned previously is at my front door, I have an open fireplace, and no gates on my stairs. I'm not trying to assume any responsibility for other people's children in this house. Sorry. It's enough work to watch my own, LOL!


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

We don't have a policy. The boys are 4 and 12 and have each spent a few nights at friends houses. Both boys are generally homebodies so the only houses they have wanted to stay at are two families that we spend a lot of time with and feel comfortable with. I wouldn't let them stay somewhere I wasn't comfortable, but it hasn't come up yet.


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## davmon (Jun 21, 2003)

Interesting topic. We just moved to our new home this past summer and our ds started kindergarten in August. He was invited to a sleep-over with 7 or 8 other boys in his class a couple of weeks ago. Now, I had an awful childhood in that I had really only one friend and was the teacher's pet, etc. So, I don't want to ostrasize my ds by not letting him participate in social things. But, otoh, I couldn't even place this woman's face! I was also pretty sure that my ds wouldn't be comfortable spending the night since just last year he didn't want to spend the night at his best friend's house (a situation I was comfortable with). Fortunately, my mom was in town and that gave us the "out" - he went to the party and I picked him up at 9:30 at night. I did ask about guns, who would be home, etc. before the party too. Actually it was funny, one of the other boys said 'but he wants to stay' and my son said 'no I want to go home'.

A little off topic but a proud mama moment I have to share. When I got there to p/u my ds, all the boys were running around with toy guns. Although dh and I don't let ds play with guns, I didn't say anything. Well the little boy's dad told me that he was handing out little guns to all the boys and my ds looked upset. The father asked what was wrong and my ds said 'my mom doesn't let me play with guns'. So they gave him something else (a light saber) to play with. I was sooo proud to hear that - it gave me confidence that he does take in what I teach and is able to withstand peer pressure (at least for now, in its most subtle forms).

Anyways, interesting reading - I'm still not sure what I'm going to do next time the question comes up ... Also, for the record, I'd be fine with a friend or two over at our house.


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Personaly, to me Davmon yours is the most interesting post. It touches on so many issues we parents have with sleepovers-- the positive, the negative, and the surprising. (I mean, what a trip. You check for guns, and then they give all the boys toy guns. Sheesh. But all the same, how wonderful to find that your son spoke up and announced what your family values were, at such a young age!) I could say so much about your post, but it's late so I'm just going to leave it at great post. Thanks for sharing it.

xoe


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

No policy. We evaluate each invitation. I know many parents who are nearly as rocking as I am.







We have a very close knit hsing community, for one. For another, we have lots of good friends we trust. My kids prefer their own beds, si sleepovers are very infrequesnt, but the older children have all been to sleepovers. My younest tried once last yr at her cousin's, but my cousin ended up bringing her home about 11. She wanted to come home, so they brought her home. Her cousin has slept here, and she's thinking slumber party for her next b'day. We're just not parents who make across -the- board decsions. (And no, the 8 yr old can't watch porn and the teens aren't poured vodka at cocktail time).


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

Wow. This has turned into quite the read! I guess I'm surprised at the responses...I really don't see a reason to feel threatened or offended by someone else's choice to have a no sleepover policy.
I'm not really awake enough to get into it, and NAK...but am sad that everyone's being so judgemental.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I understand that parents that have that policy of course *think* they're doing the best thing for their child.

I simply disagree.

I think that their attempts to "protect" their child are misplaced and can tend to be smothering and unhealthy.

I think that using good judgment is important in ALL things.

I think blanket rules do not teach good judgment.

-Angela

that's your own personal feelings on it. I don't "think" anything about my choices. I "know" I'm doing right by my children. I'm not going through the parenting "phase" trying to be the coolest mom I can be or their best friend. I'm just doing it the best I can and keeping them safe in the meantime. I'm a parent to MY children and MY children only and what you think about the way I raise my children matters zero to me.

We all have to make our own choices regarding raising our *own* children. You can be the cool mom that never wants her kids to get mad at her so you let them do what they want from a very young age. I just choose NOT to do that with my children. If that makes me overprotective or smothering then that's fine. I don't care what I look like in another parents eyes. I see some pretty bad parenting IRL myself and I don't say anything because it's not my business. I know that because of the steps I take right "now" that my kids will be less likely to turn in to teenagers that expect more and more because I've always let them do what was cool or what is most accepted amongst their peers. That's not how we do things.









I feel that it's dangerous and not to mention that children sometimes make bad choices when sleeping over at a friends house. I know I made bad choices when I was over the age of 11. I started sneaking out of my friends houses. I remember how loose the parent was of the other child. He would let me sleep over and then leave for the night and go to work or out with his friends and we would all be home alone inviting boys over and walking the streets all night. So no matter how well you think you know someone there are plenty of adults that will hide things from you (even your best friend) in order to appear as the "cool" parent in front of their children and their friends. I've been through it and experienced it and I'm definitely not a smothering or naive parent, just the opposite. I'm a smart parent that wants the best for her children.

I could care less what other parents want to allow their kids to do, I'm only responsible for my children. My children will not be odd adults because I didn't allow them to do sleepovers when they were kids.







lordy, lordy hon. Give me a break. They do plenty of things in their lives that make them happy and complete. I won't feel guilty for doing right by my children.


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## Kodachrome (Aug 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
After much consideration, I've decided on a no-sleepover policy for my kids - none at our house, no attending sleep-overs at other people's homes.

Rather than asking every potential friend if the family has guns, or former convicted criminals, or drug users, etc...., or not asking and then worrying - I think a no-sleepover at all policy will be the fairest all around policy. The kids will survive.

Does anyone else have this policy?

You're not alone. This is us too.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 

Just because some parents don't allow sleep overs doesn't mean that it can be assumed that these parents are overprotective and smothering and that we don't use many, many other situations to teach our children good judgment.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
I feel that it's dangerous and not to mention that children sometimes make bad choices when sleeping over at a friends house. I know I made bad choices when I was over the age of 11. I started sneaking out of my friends houses. I remember how loose the parent was of the other child. He would let me sleep over and then leave for the night and go to work or out with his friends and we would all be home alone inviting boys over and walking the streets all night. So no matter how well you think you know someone there are plenty of adults that will hide things from you (even your best friend) in order to appear as the "cool" parent in front of their children and their friends. I've been through it and experienced it and I'm definitely not a smothering or naive parent, just the opposite. I'm a smart parent that wants the best for her children.

They do plenty of things in their lives that make them happy and complete. I won't feel guilty for doing right by my children.


Agreed


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

I've finally had to start enforcing the policy, and it's working out fine. I simply say that we only have playdates, not sleepovers.


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## abi&ben'smom (Oct 28, 2007)

We are having a sleepover right now. For a total of 7 kids! Our kids have pretty much known each other all their lives. We all became really close when the kids were really little. One family is right next to us and the other is 3 doors down. We all trade the kids around so we can all have our own "date nights". The kids have a blast and we have the peace of mind to know that they can just call and run home if they want! (they never do!) We all have the same parenting styles and when we were very first getting to know each other one of the moms just straight up asked me if we had guns in the house. (no!) I really admired her honesty. I think the key is getting to know the parents first. I can't even imagine letting the kids stay somewhere that I didn't know the parents really well. (I would say we knew each other for 4 years before we did sleepovers.) Last night our kids slept over at their house and it was great. We went out to eat and then just relaxed at home, and slept in! It was awesome.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abi&ben'smom* 
We are having a sleepover right now. For a total of 7 kids! Our kids have pretty much known each other all their lives. We all became really close when the kids were really little. One family is right next to us and the other is 3 doors down. We all trade the kids around so we can all have our own "date nights". The kids have a blast and we have the peace of mind to know that they can just call and run home if they want! (they never do!) We all have the same parenting styles and when we were very first getting to know each other one of the moms just straight up asked me if we had guns in the house. (no!) I really admired her honesty. I think the key is getting to know the parents first. I can't even imagine letting the kids stay somewhere that I didn't know the parents really well. (I would say we knew each other for 4 years before we did sleepovers.) Last night our kids slept over at their house and it was great. We went out to eat and then just relaxed at home, and slept in! It was awesome.









One of our old hsing friends recently had a birthday party w/a sleepover. They had a lovely time. Wii and all.


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafylady* 
"......I simply say that we only have playdates, not sleepovers.

Wow, Leaflady.......what a nice and simple way to put that. No lengthy, convoluted explanations loaded with apologies. Hope you don't mind if I use it, LOL!

Otherwise.....
Abi&Ben's mom--- glad things are working out for you, too. Sounds like fun. I've lived on my block for 7 years. Most of my neighbors are really nice, but none of our kids have been allowed to play together...nevertheless have sleepovers. (Some of this could be a Jewish/Orthodox Jewish/Christian thing. I discovered that when I invited the neighbor kids to DD's birthday party, and none of them showed up.) Even though we parents are (mostly) friendly with one-another, right now most of the little kids here don't know each other's names. I suspect they never will until they go to school together and make friends (Or not. Some of the kids will be going to private, religious schools.)

xoe


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xoe* 
I've lived on my block for 7 years. Most of my neighbors are really nice, but none of our kids have been allowed to play together...nevertheless have sleepovers. (Some of this could be a Jewish/Orthodox Jewish/Christian thing. I discovered that when I invited the neighbor kids to DD's birthday party, and none of them showed up.) Even though we parents are (mostly) friendly with one-another, right now most of the little kids here don't know each other's names. I suspect they never will until they go to school together and make friends (Or not. Some of the kids will be going to private, religious schools.)

xoe


Xoe, if the neighbors are Orthodox Jews and you're not, then there will be issues of food. Rules of kashrut (keeping kosher) make inviting Orthodox Jewish children to birthday parties very difficult, so that if they do show up, they won't be able to eat anything. Same issue with playdates and/or sleepovers.


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## abi&ben'smom (Oct 28, 2007)

We've never had any issues with food when our Jewish friends come over. I don't think they are really strict with what the kids eat, I think it's more them right now, maybe when they are older it will change. (Last night we had one Jewish family and one Catholic family spend the night.) Around the holidays, my kids do Hanukkah stuff with them, and they do Christmas stuff when they come over. I think they have fun learning about each other's traditions.


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## mija y mijo (Dec 6, 2006)

We don't do sleepovers. I don't see the point in sleeping at someone else's house. They can eat, play, have a good time, and come home. I don't feel like sleepovers added anything to my childhood, just as I feel that not allowing them for my children will be taking anything from theirs.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

I read some, but not all of the replies. I'm shocked at the number of folks who don't do sleepovers? I just find it to be such a huge fun part of growing up. At this moment I have two extras in my house from a super fun sleepover last night. We made personal pizzas, watched a movie, popped popcorn, played video games, played Chutes and Ladders, everyone dressed up in costumes, etc. They were finally all asleep by midnight







Of course they all woke up around 7am and we made pancakes and eggs. Now everyone is playing or watching TV. They'll nap like superstars later.

Darned near every weekend one or both of my kids is either at someone else's house or we have someone here. It's a ton of fun imo!


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