# S/O: Will you be upset if your kids have "too many" children?



## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

The grandchildren thread got me thinking. Among my friends, most have no problems with thier parents being pushy about grandchildren. By far the most and the meanest comments come when their second child is born, particularly if they then have one of each. If they don't get "fixed" and go on to have more children, the loving grandparents get angrier and meaner with each pregnancy announcement.

So, what will you do if your grown children seem to be bent on having more children than you would wish them to?


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

Having a 3 year old, it is hard to think about. One thing I do know is: I will never utter the word "fixed" to my son-in-law.







:


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

You'd be surprised how many mil's are so bold.







:


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

I'd be happy for them. It's their choice







. Hope they decide to have a lot of children too.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

If they try to pull something like the Duggars, where they have more kids than they can give quality time and attention to, I'll be upset.

If they are procreating because they think a higher power wants them to, rather than just because they want a large family, I'll be upset.

But if they truly enjoy their children and are doing a good job with them, I'll relax and enjoy my grandkids!


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## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If they try to pull something like the Duggars, where they have more kids than they can give quality time and attention to, I'll be upset.

If they are procreating because they think a higher power wants them to, rather than just because they want a large family, I'll be upset.

But if they truly enjoy their children and are doing a good job with them, I'll relax and enjoy my grandkids!

I agree with this. As long as each child is well loved, cared for and truly appreciated for themselves I would have no problem with my children having as many as they wanted. I know that 2 is enough for us, at least right now, but they may feel completely different.


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.


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## SquishyBuggles (Dec 19, 2008)

I would have no problem with the amount of children my children would want to have, as long as they provided a loving home environment for them!


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_ani* 
I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.


yeah, same here.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

I consider it none of my business how many children my kids want to have. Totally their choice.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I consider it none of my business how many children my kids want to have. Totally their choice.









:

I would also have no problem if my children and their spouses decided to leave it up to God to decide.


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## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I consider it none of my business how many children my kids want to have. Totally their choice.

I agree


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

and really, who gets to say what is "too many" children? For a lot of people that would be any more than 2. other's might think more than 4









I mean, I'd of course be concerned if my kids were having a ton of babies and had no where to live or means to feed them, but it's still their choice and I wouldn't be saying hurtful things, I'd be offering to help any way I could.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_ani* 
I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.

Exactly! Although I do really hope to have grandkids!!


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## alexzanders_mama (May 18, 2006)

I feel like I personally can really relate to this thread.

My children are really young but I can say I will be happy with how ever many children they decide to have. Its a personal choice and I would be happy.

Why I relate:

I am currently 18 weeks pregnant with our third child and while my parents could not be happier, my FIL likes to make little comments about when are we stopping, how many children we should or should not have and believe me when I say not only does it hurt, it makes me mad!


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Only if they can't afford them.

I love the idea of having lots of grand kids. My hubby made me stop at two kids and I would love to see more of my genetic material spread around.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

As long as all the kids are happy, loved and well cared for, I don't care.


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## Shannie77 (Jan 16, 2007)

It is totally their decision... although I would hope they would have fewer than more. I would never say anything negative if they wanted a lot. I would be supportive.


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## Sijae (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I consider it none of my business how many children my kids want to have. Totally their choice.









:

I guess if the kids were being neglected or abused I'd be worried about adding to the mix. Likewise if I ended up having to raise them I'd be upset if they continued to have more. But those are special circumstances.


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## Right of Passage (Jul 25, 2007)

Another vote for only if they can't afford them. Otherwise if they want to have 80 kids I wouldn't be happier. I would probably a little sad if they didn't want to have any children, but that's not my choice.


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

It's not my business. I would help in any way I could, though. I would also be fine if they had no children.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_ani* 
I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.

That.

Although I would LOVE to have a huge passel of grandbabies.







:







: Nothing Duggar-like of course...but I'd be thrilled beyond measure if my kids had 4 or 5 babies (we're currently TTC #3...that'd give me 12 grandbabies







) Provided my children and future children-in-law are able to care for them of course...


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I can't see where it would be any of my business how many kids my kids have. I can't imagine commenting.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

None of my business. I just hope they will let me take turns living with each family... I guess I better learn to be agreeable.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 









You'd be surprised how many mil's are so bold.







:


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_ani* 
I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.









:

I've been to hell and back on my reproductive journey. My only wish for my children in this area is that _none_ of them ever experience what I have. No children, one child, six children - whatever. It's all good. I just don't want any of them to ttc for a decade, or have unwanted surgery or lose a child...

ETA: The only comment has come from FIL. At one point, when dh announced that I was pregnant again - might even have been with ds2, he made the "don't you know what causes that?" comment. In retrospect, I think that had more to do with the fact that the kids were only 2 years apart than with how many we were having. I think my in-laws forget sometimes that I'm older than their son...and, of course, they don't know that much about my history of trying to have children. Since then, we've only heard "congratulations" each time - no nastiness. I think they kind of like having a bunch of grandkids, to be honest.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquishyBuggles* 
I would have no problem with the amount of children my children would want to have, as long as they provided a loving home environment for them!

This exactly.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Yes, I would be extremely upset if they have more than two children. I will keep my disappointment to myself, however, as it is their decision.


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## Kyyrah (Jan 15, 2009)

No, I'd never be upset. Children are a blessing. _All_ children, not just the first two conceived on purpose into a committed, financially stable marriage, perfectly spaced, when the parents are somewhere between 28-33.









Or whatever. YWIM.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

It's not up to me to wish how many kids my kids will have. They can have as many or as few as they want


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I don't think there is a magical "right size" of a family. I might worry about finances if it looks like they're struggling, but I'd hope I'd keep my mouth shut or that my children would remind me to.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I don't think there is a magical "right size" of a family. I might worry about finances if it looks like they're struggling, but I'd hope I'd keep my mouth shut or that my children would remind me to.


That's awesome.
I hope to raise kids that would be able to say that to me too - if I over stepped.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
That's awesome.
I hope to raise kids that would be able to say that to me too - if I over stepped.

I already told my husband to tell me to stuff it (preferably in private) if I ever start veering off into momster land, you know? I am pretty sure DD won't have a problem telling me to. As she gets older, if either or both of her brothers are more passive in that regard I think I'll ask her to tell me if/when I step over the line in her presence as well. And I've got some good friends who would have no problem hitting me with clue by four if necessary.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I might worry, but I'd try to be supportive. I just told my mom that I'm pg, and she sounded worried. I think she just knows how much work kids are (she had six), and that they're closely-spaced. Hell, I'm worried about myself, so I can't blame her.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I figure that when my children are adults and self-sufficient, that how many children they have is none of my business. Their life, their money, their decision.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I already told my husband to tell me to stuff it (preferably in private) if I ever start veering off into momster land, you know? I am pretty sure DD won't have a problem telling me to. As she gets older, if either or both of her brothers are more passive in that regard I think I'll ask her to tell me if/when I step over the line in her presence as well. And I've got some good friends who would have no problem hitting me with clue by four if necessary.

Love it!


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## bscal (Feb 13, 2006)

I have 3 kids (so far). My dad was surprised but excited for us when we became pg with #3 (younger DD was 9 mos old, older DD was 3 yrs). My MIL was awesome about it... but she was Italian and Catholic so she very much encouraged us to have many children. (She passed away last January.)

My mother, on the other hand... is not so supportive sometimes when it comes to my family size. She seems supportive. But then she occasionally says things (when she calls and all heck is breaking loose) like "don't you want to just stop at 3 kids?" Or I'll be having a rough mommy day, usually with my 6 yr old DD who is a red headed stubborn opinionated child, and call her to vent and she starts teasing about me and DH wanting "all those children" like it's MY fault that my DD is being a PITB. She says these things in a light hearted joking tone but it stings b/c I truly think that she feels that way.

So just from my experience with my own mother... I will support my children no matter what. Even if I think that they are overwhelmed or don't have enough money saved. I will support their decisions (or those little surprises) 100%. Hopefully I'll be able to teach them about finances way before then though... doing the DR snowball with DH now so we will be able to teach them how to save and not use CCs and be a good example to them.

Beth


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## Sonnenwende (Sep 9, 2006)

I wouldn't care as long as the situation was healthy and stable with the SO and finances.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
and really, who gets to say what is "too many" children? For a lot of people that would be any more than 2. other's might think more than 4









I mean, I'd of course be concerned if my kids were having a ton of babies and had no where to live or means to feed them, but it's still their choice and I wouldn't be saying hurtful things, I'd be offering to help any way I could.









:

It's their choice how many they want- I would support them either way.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sonnenwende* 
I wouldn't care as long as the situation was healthy and stable with the SO and finances.

OUR PRESENT situation isn't stable financially and we have 4 children. We live in a tiny 2 bed house. We have a 1980's green bathroom suite and a kitchen with doors missing from some of the cupboards. I was divorced with 2 children when I met dh with a crazy ex-h who caused all kind of problems.

My ILs judge us on all these material circumstances among other things and it is horrible. However dh and I love each other, are tight as a team and our children are happy in themselves most of the time.

I doubt I would judge my children if they had children and their situation was complicated or their finances were tricky. If by then we have the means to help them we will.


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't think I would ever comment to my DS on the number of kids he will or won't have. I would prefer he had at least one though







... but I wouldn't voice my opinion. I would be worried for him and his partner though if they had more kids than they could afford.


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm pregnant with baby #7 and we have had some really nasty comments from my MIL! Mostly we just ignore her, but it is getting harder!

I would love my children to trust the Lord to plan their families, but ultimately they need to make their own decision regarding this. I pray that I will never interfere!


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## JMJ (Sep 6, 2008)

I would be a hypocrite if I did. I think that how many kids a couple has is highly personal. I would worry if kids start coming before marriage, but I hope to raise children who would be able to make responsible decisions about their family and finances.

Right now, I'm pregnant with our first, married for a year when I got pregnant, living in a condo that is paid off (and if we moved away from downtown and bought a nice house, we could make a profit off of it), done with school, completely debt free, healthy, etc, and I feel like our families are happy about our baby because everything is in place for us (though we got some comments about being "reckless" about living simply and paying off the condo, and my careful healthy eating habits are applauded when I cook healthy and delicious meals but have brought comments about me being too fragile to have very many children when I order carefully in restaurants).

The thing is that we aren't sure exactly how many children we want, but it will probably be more than two. I just hope that all our children are received into our families as happily as the first. I have a friend who just had her 4th while she is a SAHM and her husband is grad student. Her mom wouldn't talk to her for a while after hearing that she was pregnant again.


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## tjlsmom (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquishyBuggles* 
I would have no problem with the amount of children my children would want to have, as long as they provided a loving home environment for them!

This.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

If they were well taken care of (and that extends way beyond the monetary aspect which, imo, isn't that important) than I wouldn't care how many they had.


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

I will hopefully never comment on how many kids my children might want to have. I have had a LOT, so I have no right to comment on that, I would just show concern if they couldn't afford to care for the kids or if they expected ME to either raise them or pay for them. If they want kids, they better be responsible for taking care of them.

My mom has always been supportive with what ever I have choosen in regards to my child raising/creating. My MIL however keeps saying that since we are pg with a boy (the 4th for our home, my 3rd for our home and my husbands 2nd, this is our first together), that we need to keep trying until we have a girl. She is insane. I am DONE. HAHA. My grandmother is concerned about me being pg, but this is the 10th baby I am having so I can understand why. She is concerned with my physically, not mentally or emotionally. She knows I can handle my family so if anythign I hope I am the same way with my kids and their spouses.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

None of my business! I would kind of hope that they WOULD have at least SOME children though, but that is still none of my business so I wouldn't try to guilt trip them into having kids (ugh, how awful is it when parents do that?) I would just try to be supportive of them figuring out what was best for them. If they had a bunch of kids, even a dozen or more, and loved and cared for each one, I would think that was great. Or just one would be great too.


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## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

I would only be "upset" if they were opening themselves up to harm by continuing to get pregnant, ie a major complication such as cancer, anorexia, or drug addiction. I don't think "upset" is the right word, but maybe scared for them. I would also be "scared" if they were highly involved in fertility treatment and opted for repeat multiple births without enough time for mom to "replenish" nutrients in between. I remember seeing an episode of something where a couple ended up with several sets of quads and triplets under 5, and it just seemed to me that they were having the kids w/o respecting the mother's need to re-mineralize (is that a word?) after the birth, and I was sort of disgusted I hate to say because I am so pro-natalist. Otherwise, I will be more than happy to take care of any of my grandchildren as my own if my child could not do so. I would say my personal limit would be about 5, then after that if the kids had to go to other relatives or foster care I would start getting "upset."


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Sooooooo not my problem.









I can bake lots of cookies.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I don't understand why having "too many" kids would be upsetting.







Anybody want to fill me in?

I don't think my kid's procreating is any of my business.

I don't believe there is any perfect time or situation for having kids. Obviously there are things that make it easier, but that does not mean that not having those things is wrong.

My mother has been upset every time I told her I was pregnant. I think her reaction was a combination of fear, remembering her own personal experiences with birth and motherhood, and a family history of being super controlling (her parents were quite ugly to her when she started her family).

I am in a place where I am wondering if I am "done" or not and I can't talk about it with my mother with out her acting like I am crazy for even thinking I might want another. Funny thing is she can't come up with a concrete reason for why I should not. She has lots of silly ones though.

I never want my children to feel like they can't talk to me about having kids or that I am anything less than 100% behind their decision. I want my children to do what makes them happy.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I don't understand why having "too many" kids would be upsetting.







Anybody want to fill me in?

For at least one poster on this thread, it's an environmental issue. While I don't share the ZPG mindset, I can certainly understand why someone who believes in it would be upset if their own children undertook to populate a small country by themselves, yk?

In general, though? I have no idea. It seems really weird to me. I have met quite a few people who seem to think that life is over when you become a parent, so maybe it's related to that?


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

No. My dad makes it very obvious that he thinks we have one too many kids, and it hurts. (Although the third one is also his very obvious favorite, so go figure.) He also makes it clear that a fourth child from me would not exactly be good news. I would never want my children to feel the way I feel when he says things like that.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
ETA: The only comment has come from FIL. At one point, when dh announced that I was pregnant again - might even have been with ds2, he made the "don't you know what causes that?" comment. In retrospect, I think that had more to do with the fact that the kids were only 2 years apart than with how many we were having.

And that's when you say, "Uh huh! That's why we are having more!"


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I have two grandchildren so far out of three children, so I am hoping for more. As long as they are brought into a loving, safe environment and they can support them, I'm all for large families (not to the extent of the Duggars, though).


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I would be happy if my children had "too many" children of their own.


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I don't understand why having "too many" kids would be upsetting.







Anybody want to fill me in?

For us it's my mom... she has made it QUITE clear she doesn't think we should have more kids. She keeps saying that our family needs more babies but then adds that they need to come from my brothers because they need (more) babies. (One of my brothers and his wife have been ttc for many many years and the other has lost many babies.) It is heartbreaking that they cannot have the babies they want but I really don't see why that means I shouldn't have more children.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
I would never want my children to feel the way I feel when he says things like that.

That is heartbreaking.


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## PaigeC (Nov 25, 2008)

As a long-term infertile I would hope I would _*never ever*_ force my personal opinion on my children about family planning. God bless my mother for never giving me the "i want grandkids" schtick. If I've learned anything it is that EVERYONE should keep their mouths shut about childbearing unless you are invited into the conversation. You never know what pain lies behind that question.

As far as being able to afford the kids...this can be highly subjective. On persons view of being comfortable might be someone else's riches and excess.


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## PaigeC (Nov 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
For at least one poster on this thread, it's an environmental issue. While I don't share the ZPG mindset, I can certainly understand why someone who believes in it would be upset if their own children undertook to populate a small country by themselves, yk?

I've also heard that since there are kids in foster care "we" should just adopt those. Once again...I don't think people should ever comment on someone else's childbearing plan. I've been hurt more than I can explain by other people's "views" on what I "should" do. A parent saying this just makes it hurt more not less.


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

As long as I am blessed with some grandchildren, I don't care how many children my children have as long as they are in stable relationships and financially sound.

I would be disappointed not to have any grandchildren. I hope I can keep my mouth shut about it when the time comes, but since I'm an older mom there might not be a lot of time for me to enjoy them if my kids wait too long once they've found a life partner. Not their fault at all that I had them so late, but having just lost my dad when my kids are so small has made me think a bit about this lately.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

I'd be delighted, in general. Now if it was an unhealthy situation (for instance, if my daughter was being pressured by her partner to have more children even though she didn't know if she wanted to) that would be less than delightful. But if my children are happy having 12 babies, so be it.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Only if they can't afford them.

I love the idea of having lots of grand kids. My hubby made me stop at two kids and I would love to see more of my genetic material spread around.

Yeah, I agree with the not being able to afford them thing. That and having kids and not taking care of them. Other than that, as long as they're providing their kids with a stable, loving environment the more the merrier!


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Of course not! I'd be thrilled.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I would love for my children to have many children. Personally I would still love to have 4 or 5, but since DH wanted 1-2, I imagine we'll end up with 3. I think I would be sad if they decided to have only 1 child or to have none, though I would keep it to myself.

I don't think I would say "as long as they can afford them" nor "as long as they can take care of them" either. I had PPD after DS, and I'm sure my mother doesn't approve of the life I give my children having (gasp!) been to a therapist and working part-time to afford the life I want them to have. (She used to do stuff like wearing "Every mother is a working mother" shirts whenever she watched them so I could work.







Yes, I know SAHM is a hard job, I've done it too, but it was not a nice thing to see as I went off to an office without my baby.)

If they are happy with the life they can give their children, and especially if I can truly help in any way, not grudgingly or with conditions and passive aggressive behaviors tossed in... then I will enjoy my children and my grandchildren whatever the size, method of creation, income, and lifestyle of my grown children's families.


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## AGierald (Sep 5, 2007)

I just want my kids to be happy. Would i be a little irritated if they have a dozen kids and are on welfare and calling for money? yes.will i love them any less? no.


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## Deacon's Mama (Jan 7, 2009)

As long as they could afford them and give them each individual attention and love it doesn't really matter to me.


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## east carolina (Apr 5, 2006)

I imagine I would only be "upset" if they had lots and lots of children and expected me to pay for all their bills and move in and help raise them. Not that I wouldn't want to help out if I was in a position to, but I think I would be upset if I felt forced to.

Other than that, I really can't see why. I hope I have a bunch of grandchildren.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I could not even imagine having a wish regarding how many children they have. It is their lives, their choices and by not even forming an opinion in the first place, it will never be an issue.

I know some people who are of the mind where they have opinions on how others should dress, live, procreate, career, school, vacation, do their hair, decorate their homes. My personal opinion of those people are very very low.

My MIL will walk in to my house and complain about the pictures on the wall, anything to be able to complain. I think it is revolting and the reason she is not invited.

I hope my children find happiness in their lives, and are productive good people. If that means 20 children or none for them, then so be it. Each and every one will have my full support and love.


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## Onemagicmummy (Jul 27, 2007)

i dont see how my kids future fertility is any of my business.

i am the one in my family with "too many" kids, im busy baking number 5. my mum was less than impressed when i told her, she gave me the exaserpated sigh over then phone, as if to say "Oh, no not another one" she thinks i am throwing my life away.

she doesnt get that unlike her i like kids, i like babies.
recentaly she has been saying that she only ever wanted 4-5 grandkids, so has had to tellmy bro n sis they cant have any cos i have had their share. WTF!!
she has never been happy when i have become pregnant. her first reaction is very telling. she is dissapointed in me for "making nothing of my life" it hurts.

so if/when i get "the news" from my children that they are having a baby the only words out my mouth will be "congratulations" be it the 1st 2nd or 8th time.

Kiz


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Onemagicmummy* 
i dont see how my kids future fertility is any of my business.

i am the one in my family with "too many" kids, im busy baking number 5. my mum was less than impressed when i told her, she gave me the exaserpated sigh over then phone, as if to say "Oh, no not another one" she thinks i am throwing my life away.

she doesnt get that unlike her i like kids, i like babies.
recentaly she has been saying that she only ever wanted 4-5 grandkids, so has had to tellmy bro n sis they cant have any cos i have had their share. WTF!!
she has never been happy when i have become pregnant. her first reaction is very telling. she is dissapointed in me for "making nothing of my life" it hurts.

so if/when i get "the news" from my children that they are having a baby the only words out my mouth will be "congratulations" be it the 1st 2nd or 8th time.

Kiz

She only wanted 4-5 grandchildren, but she had 3 kids herself? This means, she felt entitled to 3, but felt that each of her kids can only have 1-2 children? he should have stopped at 1-2 children if she felt so strongly. If each of her 3 children had 3, then she would have 9 grandchildren. She never should have expected anything of her kids that she did not expect of herself.

Oh..my mother had 4 children of her own. But she got angry when I got pregnant with my 2nd!!! I am not quite certain where she gets off thinking she gets to chose how me and dh procreate. But I just feel mad about it sometimes.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
That was quite rude to say.

I am in a situation of plenty financial means. Things were meager when we had our first two, much better with our next 2, and now we are quite well off. Money is just money. Your children are forever.

Breeding is what dogs do....not people. You should chose kinder words and be less judgemental.


thank you.

the other comment had me







:

So, maybe I should have stopped when we had 2, because we didn't have much money or space at all.

Funny, cause now we have 4, and want more. We have plenty of money and space, TYVM









ETA: I actually feel sorry for those who chose their family size based on finances. So glad we didn't let that get in our way.

and I see this thread getting deleted. There was really no way for it not to turn into a debate as to how many children people should have when the ignorant comments start flying.


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## Bell (Jan 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquishyBuggles* 
I would have no problem with the amount of children my children would want to have, as long as they provided a loving home environment for them!

If I see things are no going very well, i would say something.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

if my children have more children then I wish them too? I dont wish a certain amount on them. I do hope they give me some grandbabies though! the more the merrier and I am a free babysitter anytime they need!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sonnenwende* 
Your opinion. I wouldn't encourage my daughter to continue breeding either if she was in your situation. I am in a situation now where I will probably never be able to comfortably support more than one child so I stopped having them. It really isn't that hard. More to life than popping out kids.

im so sad to read this comment on this site of all places


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
She only wanted 4-5 grandchildren, but she had 3 kids herself? This means, she felt entitled to 3, but felt that each of her kids can only have 1-2 children? he should have stopped at 1-2 children if she felt so strongly. If each of her 3 children had 3, then she would have 9 grandchildren. She never should have expected anything of her kids that she did not expect of herself.

Oh..my mother had 4 children of her own. But she got angry when I got pregnant with my 2nd!!! I am not quite certain where she gets off thinking she gets to chose how me and dh procreate. But I just feel mad about it sometimes.

Perhaps the moms who have this attitude have regret over having so many kids themselves. Often they were not "allowed," for lack of a better word, to control their own fertility, either because of religion or the pill wasn't available yet or whatever. They would have liked to have a career and/or more freedom and saw themselves as stuck with a lot of kids and no way to do anything for themselves. Nowadays we have choices, and these moms can't see why we wouldn't choose something else.

I have had many conversations with women like this (who have had 5, 7, and 10 kids), not saying it is my point of view or anything else. Just "reporting" what I've heard from them.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

My mother had choices and a career and I was in daycare. Yet, she had 4 children before she decided to stop. My impression is that she wanted another boy and was seriously disappointed that she kept getting girls. She was perfectly thrilled when I was pregnant with my son, but was horribly upset when I was pregnant with my daughter. She is a very liberated person and definitely had choices.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kyyrah* 
No, I'd never be upset. Children are a blessing. _All_ children, not just the first two conceived on purpose into a committed, financially stable marriage, perfectly spaced, when the parents are somewhere between 28-33.

















:

I find it funny that with birth control and freedom to choose, women seem to be expected now all to make the same choice regarding their family size and timing. Two kids -- three is acceptable, _if_ your first two were the same sex -- not before you're out of school and have a house, but if you're more than a little into your thirties, you'd better get started soon!


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## Okapi (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I don't understand why having "too many" kids would be upsetting.







Anybody want to fill me in?

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I have a family member (one of my dad's cousins) who has 7 (possibly 8 by now - I know she was pregnant in the summer, can't remember when she was/is due). Her oldest is around 11. She has also had at least 2 miscarriages in that time, and her body is *not* handling it. Not only is she very underweight and sick a lot, but she had PPD with her last one, and was not over it before she got pregnant this time. Our family is catholic - they have no problem with many children (my grandmother & her mother are 2 of 10 surviving siblings), but they are very worried for her health, as well as her & her family's safety (b/c of the PPD). If she took some time between pregnancies and recovered her health, I'm sure they would welcome more children, but as it is now, when they heard about the most recent pregnancy, they were very worried & upset.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I wouldn't be upset if my kids had a lot of children. I understand being concerned perhaps in situations like Okapi described, but it's their life to live, not mine. Children are truly a gift from God, and every one should be welcomed.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I can imagine being concerned for dd and the children if she was not in a good situation (abuse) and was having more children.
I would be a little upset if she planned to have 10+ kids.
I can't imagine making mean comments about her family size though.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

From the classic Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

breed

1. To produce as offspring; to bring forth; to bear; to procreate; to generate; to beget; to hatch.

Of course humans breed. We're animals. Nothing wrong with that.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

But I'm sure you know that "breeder" and "breed" are used in a derogatory manner by some. Your comment itself was in a negative context.

I've never heard *anyone* who thought having a bunch of kids was a wonderful idea refer to others as "breeders". I've occasionally seen it used jokingly refering to oneself. But I don't think many of us take kindly to having our family choices being refered to as "breeding".


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, I would want my children to understand the responsibilities that come with having children. I'd want them to think about planning for a number that they could provide for, and provide a loving and nurturing environment for. A person only has so much time and resources...

Personally, though, I've read enough about carrying capacity, resources, and world population growth that it plays in my mind when I think about family size. I think there are two different factors 1) personal desire and ability to care for a family and 2) the impact on the world.

I hope that I raise my children in a manner that they can make these decisions on their own in a thoughtful and responsible way.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
I've never heard *anyone* who thought having a bunch of kids was a wonderful idea refer to others as "breeders". I've occasionally seen it used jokingly refering to oneself. But I don't think many of us take kindly to having our family choices being refered to as "breeding".

Yeah, "breeding" and "popping out kids" are not the nicest ways to talk about people's families.
We are talking about PEOPLE and thier CHILDREN here. Whether or not you would make the same choice, you (general) can still show some respect.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deacon's Mama* 
As long as they could afford them and give them each individual attention and love it doesn't really matter to me.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *east carolina* 
I imagine I would only be "upset" if they had lots and lots of children and expected me to pay for all their bills and move in and help raise them. Not that I wouldn't want to help out if I was in a position to, but I think I would be upset if I felt forced to.

Other than that, I really can't see why.









:

Of course, I look forward to being a devoted and active grandparent, and I will definitely help in every way possible, willingly and lovingly.

However, I want them to be responsible and thoughtful about all choices in life, including having children. I want them to have the time and the means to care for their children so that it's a fun and good experience for them and for the children.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
Yeah, "breeding" and "popping out kids" are not the nicest ways to talk about people's families.
We are talking about PEOPLE and thier CHILDREN here. Whether or not you would make the same choice, you (general) can still show some respect.

I definitely don't like the word "pop" when it comes to child birth. Babies certainly don't "pop" out! I kind of wish they did, but they certainly do not.

I've always found that word to be so dismissive of what labor and having a baby really is.

But I guess it's just a common saying...not one I hear too many _mothers_ using, though!


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
Yeah, "breeding" and "popping out kids" are not the nicest ways to talk about people's families.
We are talking about PEOPLE and thier CHILDREN here. Whether or not you would make the same choice, you (general) can still show some respect.

"Breed" is a perfectly good word and is used in an accurate context. I see nothing disrespectful about it when applied to people or their children. My parents bred me and my siblings. If you want to take offense, that's your prerogative.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
So, what will you do if your grown children seem to be bent on having more children than you would wish them to?

In all honesty, I'll be the Gramma biting her tongue so that I don't pressure my children to have MORE children. If my children had 8 children each, I would love it! Assuming that they are able to afford them and are in good relationships, of course.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 

Everybody would describe "comfortably support" differently. For some this means no debt, a big house, a nice sized savings account, and a 6 figure income. For others quite a bit less would do.


I agree. It's always relative. To me, financially speaking, if you can afford to feed them (I suppose even if that means food stamps or wic) than why not have as many as you want?

About the grandkid thing, if my children were happy in life (whether that included zero children or 18) I would be at peace with their decision regarding "breeding".


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

I think about grandchildren the way I think about children, in a way. Each is a blessing, and when they are born, it's a time to be celebrated.

But in the family planning stages it's important to think about how much is needed to provide a life for that child, and to have enough time and emotional reserves to provide a loving, warm, healthy childhood.

If I have 2-3 children, and then those 2-3 children had say 5-7 children each, that is 10 to 21 grandchildren!

If I have 10 to 21 grandchildren, how much time am I realistically going to be able to spend with those grandchildren? How much help can I offer my children in raising them? Would I be able to help clothe, and educate them? Play with them? Spend birthdays and holidays with them and be an important part of their lives?

I can certainly do that with 1, 2, 3, maybe even 5 to 7 grandchildren. But if it's closer to 10 or 20 grandchildren, I might not have the time, the years, the resources to really be the best grandmother I can be to them...similar to how I feel about having children myself. If I have 2 or 3 kids, I can be a great mother because I have the time and resources to devote to them. If I have 5 to 10 kids, I'm definitely more tapped and it's more likely I'll overlook some of their needs, not intentionally, just logistically.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
"Breed" is a perfectly good word and is used in an accurate context. I see nothing disrespectful about it when applied to people or their children. My parents bred me and my siblings. If you want to take offense, that's your prerogative.

The two terms used together are less than flattering, whether or not they are "accurate" - I couldn't care less. Both are belittling to what we are actually talking about which is children and the very personal desire to have them. And I do find *that* offensive.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *That Is Nice* 
If I have 10 to 21 grandchildren, how much time am I realistically going to be able to spend with those grandchildren? How much help can I offer my children in raising them? Would I be able to help clothe, and educate them? Play with them? Spend birthdays and holidays with them and be an important part of their lives?


I dunno, my MIL has 14 grandchildren (so far) and I don't think she struggles with connecing with the kids. Funny, too, because DH only has one sister, so his parents stopped at 2 children. But, MIL re-married so 5 of the grand-kids are technically step-grandchildren... not that it matters. We moved out of state but she has visited several times now, we probably see her as much as we did when we lived in CO. and christmas gifts? my kids got spoiled by her. honestly, she bought a lot of toys for them. SO, my point is, I think it is possible to spread yourself out and have a good relationship with multiple grandkids, even if you chose to only have 1-2 kids. Grandparenting is a bit different. Now, if you end up raising them yourself, well that's different.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
I dunno, my MIL has 14 grandchildren (so far) and I don't think she struggles with connecing with the kids. Funny, too, because DH only has one sister, so his parents stopped at 2 children. But, MIL re-married so 5 of the grand-kids are technically step-grandchildren... not that it matters. We moved out of state but she has visited several times now, we probably see her as much as we did when we lived in CO. and christmas gifts? my kids got spoiled by her. honestly, she bought a lot of toys for them. SO, my point is, I think it is possible to spread yourself out and have a good relationship with multiple grandkids, even if you chose to only have 1-2 kids. Grandparenting is a bit different. Now, if you end up raising them yourself, well that's different.

Oh, yes, definitely, it's highly dependent on the individual and their commitment.

I just know when more people are added the resources (time, money, energy) become more constrained.

My grandparents have a lot of grandchildren, and they don't do much with or for any of them, and that is their choice, but also a factor of the total number.

Then again, I know of several families where there are only a handful of grandchildren, with the same dynamic.

I guess it depends on individual personalities/commitments as well as time, distance, resources.


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## Munchkinmaker (Jun 8, 2005)

I don't care if they welcome a new baby as frequently as they celebrate Christmas... As long as their children are loved and cared for. But it doesn't matter how many children they have, 2 or 20... If I feel they are not taking care of their current children's needs and still planning more (and no, I'm not talking about parenting choices or living without a lot of money. I'm talking things like physical, emotional, social and/or environmental neglect or abuse).. I'd feel obligated to have an opinion and start a good discussion on the subject.

As far as connecting with lots of grandchildren, I don't think it would be an issue. I live in a community where even the last generation (age 50+) typically came from huge French Catholic families. A family with 5 children would have been an average size. 10 would have been pretty normal and 12-18 was not uncommon. Families were still close and produced great kids that turned into successful adults. My mom had 5 sisters (all educated and sucessful but raised by poor farmers) and I'm extremely close with all my aunts and all of my cousins.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
But I'm sure you know that "breeder" and "breed" are used in a derogatory manner by some. Your comment itself was in a negative context.

I've never heard *anyone* who thought having a bunch of kids was a wonderful idea refer to others as "breeders". I've occasionally seen it used jokingly refering to oneself. But I don't think many of us take kindly to having our family choices being refered to as "breeding".

I'm going to have to be very careful about what I say so that I don't violate the UA.

My husband and I refer to this period of our life as the breeding period. That is what we are doing. We are making deliberate choices about our behavior, food, etc to facilitate the healthy breeding of offspring. The same way I would modify the diet and activities of an animal if I wanted to breed it because _human beings are animals._

I don't see a point in trying to be PC about language in terms of biological functions. If you choose to refer to having children as having more blessings or having another little miracle that's fine. I am not having a miracle. I am having the obvious biological result of mating. I am in fact, breeding.

However, the "popping them out" phrase seems annoying to me because it is not based in biology. God I wish they just popped out.

And as far as the thread question goes: will I be upset if my kids have too many children? Define too many. I have very specific values around being responsible. I don't care if my kids go on to have one kid or fifteen as long as they can care for their children by themselves with no financial help from anyone else. Emotional help doesn't bother me so much. That's about as much as I can say about that without deeply offending people.

ETA: I don't care if my grandchildren are raised in lavish wealthy lifestyles. I've been poor most of my life and I don't have a problem with being poor. However there is a crucial difference between being poor but self-sufficient and needing assistance to feed your children.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
My husband and I refer to this period of our life as the breeding period. That is what we are doing. We are making deliberate choices about our behavior, food, etc to facilitate the healthy breeding of offspring. The same way I would modify the diet and activities of an animal if I wanted to breed it because _human beings are animals._

I don't see a point in trying to be PC about language in terms of biological functions.

I do see a point, when it comes to talking with others. You and your husband obviously have no problem with referring to yourselves as breeders. But if you're aware (I *hope* you're aware at this point in the thread) that sometimes the word "breeder" is used in a derogatory way, then why on earth would you use it in a public discussion where some have had the experience of being "slammed" by that word?

It seems unnecessarily offensive.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

And to answer the OP -- No, it absolutely isn't my business how many children my children have. I do look forward to being Grandma, ifever and whenever that happens.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If they try to pull something like the Duggars, where they have more kids than they can give quality time and attention to, I'll be upset.

If they are procreating because they think a higher power wants them to, rather than just because they want a large family, I'll be upset.

But if they truly enjoy their children and are doing a good job with them, I'll relax and enjoy my grandkids!

I agree.

Though I would never make any comments, but that is how I would feel.

It would not bother me if they had more than they could "afford." I would help however I could, hook them up with resources, etc.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

I do see a point, when it comes to talking with others.
Yeah. I'm really surprised at the defense of being deliberately offensive, especially on a place like MDC. Scientific accuracy in scientific debates, great.

But if you *know* a term is generally offensive, why would you use it to refer to others?


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
Yeah. I'm really surprised at the defense of being deliberately offensive, especially on a place like MDC. Scientific accuracy in scientific debates, great.

But if you *know* a term is generally offensive, why would you use it to refer to others?

I'm really not trying to be a jerk. (I am also not the original person who used it.) I don't see anything wrong with using the term because just about everything can be used in an offensive way and if I cut all of those words out of my vocabulary I would be unable to speak and I'm kind of obnoxiously attached to speaking.

I will concede the point that if I am talking *to you* *about you* I should refrain from describing your behavior in a way that you find offensive. However, in a general conversation I don't think that calling the act the word I call the act is a problem. Does that make sense?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
However, in a general conversation I don't think that calling the act the word I call the act is a problem. Does that make sense?

Not really. Because it seems just as accurate and easy to say "having babies" as it is to say "breeding." And way less offensive.

So to say you're hindered from being able to talk about having babies, unless you can use the word "breed" to do it ... no, it really doesn't make sense.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Not really. Because it seems just as accurate and easy to say "having babies" as it is to say "breeding." And way less offensive.

So to say you're hindered from being able to talk about having babies, unless you can use the word "breed" to do it ... no, it really doesn't make sense.

I guess I'm just going to have to live with not making sense to you then.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I haven't yet read the other responses, but in response to the original question, I will only be sad if my children are not capable of caring for their children (whether they have one or ten)-- not as much on a financial level because that can always be worked out-- but on a spiritual, emotional, and physical level. As a foster mom this is the only thing I feel really *strongly* about in terms of my kids having kids, one way or another.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I've been to hell and back on my reproductive journey. My only wish for my children in this area is that _none_ of them ever experience what I have. No children, one child, six children - whatever. It's all good. I just don't want any of them to ttc for a decade, or have unwanted surgery or lose a child...

Oh, and this too.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 







:

I've been to hell and back on my reproductive journey. My only wish for my children in this area is that _none_ of them ever experience what I have. No children, one child, six children - whatever. It's all good. I just don't want any of them to ttc for a decade, or have unwanted surgery or lose a child....

This is the most important thing.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Not really. Because it seems just as accurate and easy to say "having babies" as it is to say "breeding." And way less offensive.
Right, it's like saying "making love" instead of "f*&king."


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Alright, now that I've read the other posts, I can add:

1. Regarding environmental issues, more than anything, I hope my kids grow to be ecologically aware and that they live lives they have determined are in balance with their environmental responsibilties, whether or not that includes minimizing population growth. Everybody picks and chooses what they can do in terms of the environment.

2. I've been on the receiving end of comments about family size recently as we plan to have more kids in the future. My parents seem to generally discourage it because they feel it is too expensive to raise more children. That said, they themselves had four, and I don't think it is fair of them (particularly my dad) to discourage us when we are being thougtful enough already. My dw's parents also seem to generally discourage it. I do think for them, they do have mixed feelings about the role of religion in their own reproductive choices, particularly dw's dad. Interestingly, it is both of our moms who seem the most willing to support a decision to have more kids, though everyone I am sure will celebrate the next grandbaby including our dads.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Right, it's like saying "making love" instead of "f*&king."

Ok, this may be where the disconnect is. I feel like it is the difference between "making love" and "having sex". I prefer the more strait forward biological term.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah and the term making love is gross and not accurate.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't believe there is such a thing as too many children. I would be far more concerned if they only had a few.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Sooooooo not my problem.









I can bake lots of cookies.









I LOVE this. Right on.

I would never consider it my business to decide. I would also not consider it my business to decide if their finances were stable.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
My husband and I refer to this period of our life as the breeding period. That is what we are doing. We are making deliberate choices about our behavior, food, etc to facilitate the healthy breeding of offspring. The same way I would modify the diet and activities of an animal if I wanted to breed it because _human beings are animals._

Ew.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If they try to pull something like the Duggars, where they have more kids than they can give quality time and attention to, I'll be upset.

If they are procreating because they think a higher power wants them to, rather than just because they want a large family, I'll be upset.

But if they truly enjoy their children and are doing a good job with them, I'll relax and enjoy my grandkids!

This is pretty much my opinion as well. Obviously it is their choice, but I might still have some feelings about it. I do think with #2, though, that a couple may both want a large family and believe that they are commanded to have one. Larger families are often criticized, so being able to cite religious belief might make it easier. However, if one of my daughters was having more children than she wanted or could handle because she felt she had no choice, that would bother me greatly.


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

I was at the grocery store yesterday and buckling my second child into her carseat. My cart was by the side of my van, nearly blocking a lady's way out of her parking spot. Since she was just walking to her car, I hadn't moved it yet.

She was faster than me, and when she was ready to go, I was still buckling my dd in. She kindly moved my cart for me: "Can I put this back for you? I see you have your hands full."

I accepted with thanks, sort of embarrassed, and she smiled at me. "I used to take all five of my children to the grocery store."

I said something like "Wow! How did you do it?"

"We just _did_ in those days. I had five. Now everyone is having two. Two, two, two. My kids only have two, and _they_ think they have it rough!"

I laughed and told her my aunt had five and called me a sissy once. She nodded emphatically and I think she wanted to be, like, YEAH! YOU WOMEN TODAY ARE SISSIES!"

We parted ways and I left laughing. Now when did grandmas start worrying about us having too FEW childen?!?!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I've been thinking about the various terminologies, and here's my "take" on them --

"Making love" is an idealistic way of referring to sex, just as "having a little blessing" is an idealistic way of referring to childbearing. While many of us *do* see sex as a way to express love to our spouses, and many of us also see each and every new child as a blessing -- there are some for whom sex isn't at all loving, and, sadly, even some who see new children as a burden not a blessing.

"Having sex" is a straightforward, scientifically-accurate way of referring to the sexual act, just as "having babies" is a straightforward, universally-accepted way of referring to childbearing.

"F*ing" is a generally derogatory way of referring to the sexual act. The word came about as an abbreviated way of saying "For unlawful carnal knowledge" ... in premodern England, people who were caught having sex outside marriage, had to spend time in the stocks being ridiculed by passersby, who knew their crime by those four initials that were displayed.

I see this as similar to the social context in which humans get referred to as "breeders." I agree that humans are mammals -- and, by my username, it's obvious that I see this as a wonderful and not a shameful reality. But whenever I hear the word "breeder" used to describe humans, it has been used by the speaker as a way of expressing disapproval of someone who has more children than the speaker thinks s/he should.

So ... just as there are indeed some couples who enjoy using the word "f*ck" to describe their own sex lives, I can appreciate that some couples might enjoy referring to themselves as "breeders." If both partners in the relationship enjoy this, that is purely their own business -- but these are their own pet words, not appropriate for public use.

If someone feels it's too sentimental to use terms like "making love" and "expecting a little blessing" -- I think "having sex" and "having a baby" are perfectly accurate and straightforward expressions, which also don't run the risk of hurting and demeaning others.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

I feel like it is the difference between "making love" and "having sex". I prefer the more strait forward biological term.
Here's the thing - "breeder" is the word most often used by people who hate kids and parents. Not people who are child free by choice, but people who are openly and actively anti-child. That's why it feels offensive to me (although really, I think people who use it are trying to get a rise out of everyone so I'm more likely to roll my eyes than bother calling someone on it but since we're on the subject...) - because most of the time, people use it as derogatory term for people with kids. We've all heard it, we've all seen it, we know it. Unless those of us with kids decided to adopt "breeder" as our own as some kind of empowerment thing, I'd say "breeder" is closer to a word like "***." The ONLY time I've ever found people using the word "breeder" is on the sites where people go specifically to gripe about children, parents, and how both are runing the world.

So yeah, that's why "breeder" is offensive and derogatory. Because most often, that's how it's being used. Obviously "***" is more often used in a mean way and I'm not at all trying to claim some kind of minority status or compare having a child to being gay in our social climate, but it's the closest analogy I could think of. I'm not going to go throwing around the word "***" because hey, I kissed a girl in college and I have lots of gay friends and I didn't MEAN anything by it. It's pretty offensive to most people so I don't use it.

Hey, it's not just me : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_(slang)

As to the original topic, while I really hope my daughter has children (because right now she is my only and it may stay that way so if she doesn't have babies I won't have any grandchildren), the details are pretty much none of my business. If she has more than she can manage and it's a strain on her, I will be sad because I'm her MOTHER and I want her to be happy, but hey...I'm her mother, I want her to be happy so I think I'd step up and help out.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If they try to pull something like the Duggars, where they have more kids than they can give quality time and attention to, I'll be upset.

If they are procreating because they think a higher power wants them to, rather than just because they want a large family, I'll be upset.

But if they truly enjoy their children and are doing a good job with them, I'll relax and enjoy my grandkids!

Well put. You said it much more nicely then I could have









But, I am probably one of the VERY few on here that believes in population control; only replacing yourselves







:


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I've been thinking about the various terminologies, and here's my "take" on them --

If someone feels it's too sentimental to use terms like "making love" and "expecting a little blessing" -- I think "having sex" and "having a baby" are perfectly accurate and straightforward expressions, which also don't run the risk of hurting and demeaning others.

Thank you, and thank you NiteNicole.

I am not the person who described other people's behavior this way, so I cannot speak to her motivations. I appreciate your efforts to help me understand your point of view.


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

I would be thrilled if dd had a ton of kids. Its a long way off, but I am looking forward to grand-kids. Iam also hoping dd lives either with me, or near to me. I want to be a multi-generational household, like the good-ole days.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Quote:

I don't understand why having "too many" kids would be upsetting. Anybody want to fill me in?
Sadly, for my parents and IL's, it's all about money. They want to be able to "spoil" the grandkids. Dd1 received a powerwheels for her 3rd! birthday from her grandma. If I had 12 kids, or even 4 or 5, it's doubtful they would have been able to do that AND remain fair to the other kids. They can't afford 4, 5, or 12 powerwheels. There's also the issue of time. Both sets love to babysit for my two kids and are constantly on us about when they next sleepover is. But if we had more kids than they deemed appropriate, then it would throw the whole thing off. 12 kids is obviously a lot more exhausting and time consuming than 2. We plan to have a total of 4, would even consider 6, though dh would probably not. I know for sure my dad will not approve. Mom won't outright say it, but I'll be able to tell by her remarks, tone and facial expressions. MIL will not approve because we aren't rich. We will not have more than we can afford to adequately clothe, house, feed, and transport, but they will not be receiving anything near as costly and huge as a powerwheels, nor will each having their own bedroom be a top priority. FIL won't say anything, nor would I be able to tell what he was thinking.

In reply to *breeding vs. having babies* - when was the last time you heard the term _breeding_ in reference to humans a GOOD thing? What? You mean never? Couldn't have guessed that one. Ok, now having babies. When was the last time you heard that in a positive light. All the time, really?

"I'm so glad I was able to breed such a healthy baby girl." "I can't wait until S is another year older or so, it'll be the perfect time for us to breed." "Are you and your husband planning on breeding anymore?" Anyone who thinks breeding can be said about humans and not be derogatory is missing giant neon flashing social cues. _Espeically_ the way it was said in an earlier post. The medical profession is *HUGE* on technicalities. Would they ever say breeding in reference to a human? No. Gestate/sexual intercourse would be the terms. Breeding in reference to humans has never been a technical term and to say so is just plain ignorant.


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## kimiij (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_ani* 
I wish for my children to have the number of children they want - no more, no less.

This is all it really comes down to.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

In reply to breeding vs. having babies - when was the last time you heard the term breeding in reference to humans a GOOD thing? What? You mean never? Couldn't have guessed that one. Ok, now having babies. When was the last time you heard that in a positive light. All the time, really?
That's it right there. If you like to call yourself a breeder, please feel free. Please don't refer to the rest of us as such, though.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith* 
I accepted with thanks, sort of embarrassed, and she smiled at me. "I used to take all five of my children to the grocery store."

I said something like "Wow! How did you do it?"

"We just _did_ in those days. I had five. Now everyone is having two. Two, two, two. My kids only have two, and _they_ think they have it rough!"

hmm...I've had two or three women of my mother's generation tell me that they never took their kids anywhere if they could avoid it. I've also had two of them tell me that they _did_ take their children out regularly, but if they'd been required to use carseats, they wouldn't have. I realize not everyone finds them that big a hassle, but carseats have been a major factor in my not taking my kids out more...and a _huge_ factor in not enjoying outings more than I do. I leave the little ones with ds1 when I run multiple errands, if at all possible. It's so not worth the hassle of popping them in and out of their seats.

Obviously, the lady you met sees it differently, but I've heard older women say they're glad they had their kids a few decades ago, because it was _easier_.

Personally, I think it's hard work, no matter what...worthwhile, but hard.


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## Keria (Sep 27, 2008)

I don't think anyone will tell you here, that they will be an evil Mil or a horrible judgmental mom about their children's actions, I don't think that was the plan of your or your DHs moms when you were little, but then real life happens and then you see your daughter struggling to make ends meet living with 2 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment with no insurance, and she tells you she is pregnant then it gets hard not to turn into the evil judgmental mom, or like my cousin who has 3 children from 3 different women none of which he lives with and he doesn't play any part in his boys lives , then yeah I think he has 3 children too many and even I that I'm just his cousin have told him half kidding to please get a vasectomy.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I realize not everyone finds them that big a hassle, but carseats have been a major factor in my not taking my kids out more...and a _huge_ factor in not enjoying outings more than I do. I leave the little ones with ds1 when I run multiple errands, if at all possible. It's so not worth the hassle of popping them in and out of their seats.

That's a really good point that I haven't thought about much. You would think the 5 minute (or less, if they feel cooperative, which they often don't) effort it takes to get both kids in their carseats, and the 4 minutes (or less, if they feel cooperative) to get them out wouldn't have an impact, but it does for me anyway...partly because my kids hate getting in and out of their seats almost as much as I hate getting them in and out...especially in the cold of winter.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
...partly because my kids hate getting in and out of their seats almost as much as I hate getting them in and out...especially in the cold of winter.

That's me and mine, too. I also find carseats to be a form of torture when I'm pregnant. In that respect, I'm glad this will be my last. I'm never going to have to go through all those contortions with a pregnant belly again! DS2 never wants to get in his, but he's just at the age (remember it with dd, as well) where it's more fun to play with buttons on my dashboard. DD _hated_ her carseat from birth until she moved into a booster seat.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Louise** 
I don't think anyone will tell you here, that they will be an evil Mil or a horrible judgmental mom about their children's actions,

You know, I will be judgemental if they let their kids CIO or spank though. I will do as I do with other family members and refuse to visit near a bed or nap time, and I will refuse to host them. Even if their child is already "trained" and they're sure I won't have to hear crying. And I will correct them if they wean early and call an 8 month old having a nursing strike "self weaning" or "child led weaning." And as I said earlier, I don't really believe it's best to have 1 child, so I might well make a comment about that. But I wouldn't make a comment about 2,3,4, up to 10 or so. Beyond that I would probably question the motivation though.


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## redsfree (Apr 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquishyBuggles* 
I would have no problem with the amount of children my children would want to have, as long as they provided a loving home environment for them!

My thoughts exactly.


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## christy005 (Mar 5, 2007)

As long as they could support them all and raise them in a loving environment, I would be happy with as many grandchildren as they wanted. It's their lives and it's not my decision to tell them how many children they "should" have.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I don't have a set amount of grand-babies I think my children should have, so I probably won't be unhappy with the number of children they choose to have.


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## kay4 (Nov 30, 2004)

No, I wouldn't


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
"F*ing" is a generally derogatory way of referring to the sexual act. The word came about as an abbreviated way of saying "For unlawful carnal knowledge" ... in premodern England, people who were caught having sex outside marriage, had to spend time in the stocks being ridiculed by passersby, who knew their crime by those four initials that were displayed.

That's a myth actually. While there is debate about the true origins of the F word. It's never been used as an acronym for anything. The etymology with the most support is that it's of German origin and likely comes from one of the old German words that have some connection to rubbing or stroking.

The first acknowledged use of the word was in the poem Flen Flyys in 1475.

And now back to your original programming.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Every child is a blessing. I hope they have as many (or as few) as they wish. I hope to give them the unconditional support that I don't have.

It really hurts when family makes unfeeling comments. Ive lost three and when my dad found out I was pregnant again he told me that it should be our last since we already had 5 technically (he said something similar after the birth of my first). It hurt, lossing the babies we did hurt and I don't like it being brought up as a reason not to have another child. I don't remember what I said back but I remember I hung up the phone and cried because it really hurt.

Luckily my in-laws are great. They had 5 and wished they could have had more but MIL had an emergency hysterectomy after the birth of her 5. They were just as happy with our second daughter as our first.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

No, I would not be upset. I would offer all of the support I have that they might need. I don't place conditions like "if they have enough money" or anything like that on my support.

That said, I have no intention of being a perfect/quiet mom/MIL in all regards. We are Catholic, and I will not "support" my children doing things outside of Church teachings, and that extends to their reproductive lives. That doesn't mean that I will make rude comments, or refuse to help them with their needs, financial/emotional, etc. I won't harass them about choices that I deem wrong, but I also won't sit by and smile and act like things are ok with me that are not.

So- I can see the point of the ZPG people on this thread, they are holding true to their values, and not giving them up in the name of "being a nice mom/MIL". I am often surprised by how parents feel such a high need to "stay out of things" and "let their adult children be" that they will stop expressing any values that they hold.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Louise** 
I don't think anyone will tell you here, that they will be an evil Mil or a horrible judgmental mom about their children's actions, I don't think that was the plan of your or your DHs moms when you were little, but then real life happens and then you see your daughter struggling to make ends meet living with 2 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment with no insurance, and she tells you she is pregnant then it gets hard not to turn into the evil judgmental mom, or like my cousin who has 3 children from 3 different women none of which he lives with and he doesn't play any part in his boys lives , then yeah I think he has 3 children too many and even I that I'm just his cousin have told him half kidding to please get a vasectomy.

I'd be judgemental in that situation, but I think most of us are talking about kids we *can* afford the basic necessities for and grandparents are still disappointed for various reasons.


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## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

I have 6, it would be nice if my DC had at least that many







. Of course it's totally up to them


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

As long as they can support them all in an environmentally conscious way, I don't care how many kids DS decides to have.

When they have to start leaning on everybody else for basic things, yet keep having more, I will likely take issue with it.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I consider it none of my business how many children my kids want to have. Totally their choice.


yep.









I don't want to be like my mom at all....it's a constant thing for her...she's always giving me crap...and you wouldn't believe the things she has said to my children...her own grandchildren.







:

Even the crap from my ILs about DH getting "fixed" ....







... like there's anything "broken" about him to begin with. So I say "He's not "broken" he works just fine as you can see thank you very much!"







:


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
ETA: I actually feel sorry for those who chose their family size based on finances. So glad we didn't let that get in our way.

No need to feel sorry for us. Thanks anyway.

We felt we were financially capable of raising and providing for two children. Did I have baby lust after that? Sure....but I'm not interested in short-changing my older kids' lives or taking money out of my neighbor's pockets in order to satisfy some emotional/biological desire of my own. I think that would be selfish of me.

As for the main topic, I don't feel the need to control what my kids do when they're grown. I hope they've been raised well enough to make sound and logical decisions.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

nm


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
And as I said earlier, I don't really believe it's best to have 1 child, so I might well make a comment about that. But I wouldn't make a comment about 2,3,4, up to 10 or so. Beyond that I would probably question the motivation though.

As the mom of an only child by choice, I can assure you that commenting on your child's decision to have only one would likely not change his/her mind, but only breed resentment. Dh and I know very well what is best for OUR family, and no one on the outside is in a position to judge that. The snide comments that a few family members have made to us certainly do nothing to counteract the extremely well-researched and well-thought-out emotional, professional, psychological, and financial reasons for our decision--but they do annoy the heck out of us.

Having been on the receiving end of comments on my family size, I feel very strongly about not judging dd for hers--I don't care if she wants to have none, or one, or half a dozen, as long as she and her family are happy and healthy.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
As the mom of an only child by choice, I can assure that commenting on your child's decision to have only one would likely not change his/her mind, but only breed resentment. Dh and I know very well what is best for OUR family, and no one on the outside is in a position to judge that. The snide comments that a few family members have made to us certainly do nothing to counteract the extremely well-researched and well-thought out emotional, professional, psychological, and financial reasons for our decision--but they do annoy the heck out of us.

Having been on the receiving end of comments on my family size, I feel very strongly about judging dd for hers--I don't care if she wants to have none, or one, or half a dozen, as long as she and her family are happy and healthy.









:

I'd like to add, on the "making comments" subject, in general. Tread carefully.

I think that parents would generally know about these things, but maybe not. DS1 was not an only child by choice. He was an only child, for 10 years, because I was firstly unable to get pregnant, and then unable to carry a child to term. While I was _experiencing_ my third miscarriage (still bleeding), a co-worker caught me in the lunch room and got on a kick about how my son deserved siblings. Now, I actually happened to agree with her. Having an only _wasn't_ right for me, and ds1 would have _loved_ a sibling. She just would not drop it. I tried to get out of the conversation several times, and ended up saying, "I agree completely. I'm actually miscarrying a potential sibling _right now_." I walked away.

Is it likely that dd would be having those problems without my knowledge? Probably not. I'm still going to keep my mouth shut. My reproductive life has caused me more pain than anything else I've ever experienced, and people's random commentary on it makes me _nuts_. I would hate myself if I found out, after telling ds1 that I thought his child "needed" a sibling, that his partner had fertility issues, but didn't want them discussed, yk? I don't comment on anyone else's family size, so I won't do it to my kids.


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