# Are Strollers Ever OK w/ AP Philosophy?



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I consider myself a parent that does the AP-style of parenting, including co-sleeping, BF'ing, holding him as much as possible (including babywearing - although to be honest I hadn't heard that term until a couple years ago), and so on. It was something that seemed very natural, and we didn't really read books about it and such.

But I didn't realize until recently how controversial strollers were!







The thing is that I would wear and hold Baby pretty much all the time, yet when we would walk downtown or long distances, he would ride in a stroller. We typically would bring the sling and certainly picked him up if he fussed, but that's the funny thing....he didn't really fuss and has always loved his walks in the buggy!

I was in a pretty serious accident a few years ago, and found it difficult to wear him for long stretches as it really hurt my back (DH would wear him more than I did).

Anyway, I've seen on here some things that surprised me about strollers, so just wanted to get some thoughts. Thanks!


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

my dd preferd the stoller over the sling. Whatever made everyone the happiest (I prefered the stroller of the sling also when we were shoping our really going for a walk but I mean she would just see us walking toward the thing and start giggeling) was what I did. that makses more sense to me than forcing something just because it gets the AP stamp of approval. Attatchment isn't about following a list.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Strollers are NOT anti-AP. My kids love the stroller.


----------



## UptownZoo (May 11, 2003)

Absolutely not! I think of strollers (and playpens, swings, saucers, etc.) the same as I think of a lot of things in the modern world (TV, modern medicine, cars, etc.): they're great tools (and in the case of modern medicine, lifesavers) when used judiciously. They get a bad rap from overuse, but it's only the overuse that's not good.

To be a good parent, love is the only factor that is more important than flexibility and balance.


----------



## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I wore/carried my babies but I still used a stroller for long walks. They loved it.

i think the non-ap idea may be the idea of leaving baby in the portable carseat all the time and never picking him/her up. Or letting a baby cry in their stroller and not picking them up if they wanted to be held.


----------



## AnnesMoM (Jun 19, 2005)

My kids have always loved the stroller. My 2 year old sits in the front and says she's "driving"







. My 5 month old is happier when he's not being held and squirm around and kick and chew on his blanket so I just take him out of his carseat and put him in the back seat of my tandem since the seat lays flat and I can secure the other end. If a child hates the stroller then I think the parents should look into other options for sure, but my kids love it.


----------



## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

I don't have a problem with it! I personally don't like seeing itty bitty babies in those carseat/stroller contraptions, but for older babies/toddlers, I have no problem with it!

And it hot climates, it's impractical to think a child will never be in a stroller - slings can get HOT!!

I keep my umbrella stroller in my trunk at all times for my 2 yo. (And we use it, too!)


----------



## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
Attatchment isn't about following a list.









: I have a hernia and haven't been able to sling my now 19 mos dd since she was about 4-5 mos old. She loves riding in her stroller and I think nothing about it. AP to me is about meeting my kid's needs and being respectful, slings are nice but really they are not the be all and end all. If you are responding to your child's needs I see no problem with using a stroller.

Shay


----------



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I don't use a stroller . . . but I don't think they are in any way incompatible with AP!!!

I think AP would just encourage parents to hold their children whenever they can. Strollers are fun! And very useful! And the use of a stroller doesn't in any way preclude being close to your child.

I think mostly some AP-ers squirm when they see a newborn baby just go right from car seat to buggy and back to car seat and right to high chair and right to crib, rinse and repeat. Some parents seem to feel like they SHOULDN'T hold their babies, and just stick them in the stroller and don't interact with them. I've seen in some stores mothers just pushing their kid to a spot then shopping, going as far as they can from their baby while baby just sits and waits. And then go back and push again. And if they fuss, they just stick a paci in (another thing that CAN be abused but is NOT anti-AP).

I've also seen mamas who push their kids in strollers and talk to them and point out stuff and pick them up out of their strollers to soothe them when they fuss.

Strollers are nifty! I just don't use one cause I've not yet really needed one, and they seem inconvenient to me to lug around. But that's just how me and DH and DD are - a different baby, and I might be MARRIED to a stroller.


----------



## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

They are okay with MY philosophy, and when you have serious back and neck issues, not to mention two very young children that it is NOT physically possible for me to carry both of them, strollers are necessary. "Oh well maybe you shouldn't have had kids if you cant AP them perfectly and carry them all the time" uke


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
They are okay with MY philosophy

Amen to that.


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

I sure hope so ....

We are taking ours, along with a sling, a mei tai, and the bjorn (which is the only one DH will wear) to Disneyland.

If the kid LIVES in the stroller, that would concern me, but normal use







.


----------



## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

I agree with PP that nothing's wrong with strollers, just their overuse. I'm looking at jogging strollers right now.


----------



## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

I use whichever is more convenient at the time: carrier or stroller. And with a ds who was 20 lbs at 6 months, my back could only take so much! So, I switch back and forth.

I do think there is something wrong with our society, though, when the stroller is the DEFAULT position for babies, especially newborns.


----------



## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Do what?!

Of course, when my back hurt or when they preferred the stroller. Mine were pouch guys when little, but anybody giving me a stroller stinkeye would get laughed at. I'm too old to play oneupsmanship games.


----------



## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Using a stroller is perfectly fine if it works for you and your baby.


----------



## marnie (Jul 13, 2004)

i think it's also important to remember that "AP" parents live in all different kinds of environments. I don't have a car. We walk everywhere. I think it's easy to judge someone who uses a stroller when you're putting your kid in and out of a car seat when you go shopping - when I'm in the suburbs I see how easy it is to use a car seat, carry the child in the store, push my groceries in the cart, and load up my car, put the child back in the car seat, and drive home.

Living in the city, i don't have a car, no car seat, no way to push the cart to load up the car... the stroller is the only way to shop - if for no other reason than to use the basket to carry the groceries.

I think there's a lot of judgement about what is or isn't AP, when in reality i think the main goal, really, is just for each of us to listen to our children while we try to make it through every day.


----------



## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Oh my ... I certainly use a stroller. There is no way I am carrying around my 33 pound toddler when she is too tired to walk, or when its too much walking for her. Even babies get heavy. I refuse to be a slave to a list of "Must-do's".. thats just silly.


----------



## dakotamidnight (May 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shayinme* 







: I have a hernia and haven't been able to sling my now 19 mos dd since she was about 4-5 mos old. She loves riding in her stroller and I think nothing about it. AP to me is about meeting my kid's needs and being respectful, slings are nice but really they are not the be all and end all. If you are responding to your child's needs I see no problem with using a stroller.

Shay

Exactly! I have a severe back problem, and am in the same boat!


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Yes, you can be AP and use a stroller.

To say that they have no place, is like saying that we should ban spoonsfor everyone because some people have used them to spoon pablum into BF babies' mouths.

It is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. A hammer can be used to build a house and it can be used to brain someone. It's the wielder and their intent that determines that.


----------



## FireFrog (Jun 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
I agree with PP that nothing's wrong with strollers, just their overuse. I'm looking at jogging strollers right now.









:

We have a jogging stroller and my DS *loves* it! Of course, there are days when he gets fussy in the stroller and that's when I take him out. But those times are few and far between.


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I think mostly some AP-ers squirm when they see a newborn baby just go right from car seat to buggy and back to car seat and right to high chair and right to crib, rinse and repeat.

Yep, I think this is where strollers get a bad rap, but there's nothing wrong with using a stroller when it suits mom and/or baby. Like PPs have said, a stroller is a tool, nothing more or less than that. It's all about how it's used, imo.

DS2 hated the stroller until he was about 10 months old and then he loved it. At 2.5, he rides in the stroller more than the sling. In another 3 years, we won't need either one because he'll be able to walk anywhere we go.

AP is a parenting style that continues on for the life of the parent and child, IMO. Stroller's have such a very short useful life, in the big scheme of things, that I don't understand how anyone could say they are "anti-AP"







:


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I loved my strollers!!


----------



## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

I use a stroller and a Mei Tai or wrap - depending on which is practical. Even when DS was two weeks old I would use the stroller to go get groceries. I was recovering from a C-section and had a bad back and there was simply no way I could carry baby _and_ groceries home. Now at 3 mos I mostly use the Mei Tai for outings because its so much more convenient.

My pet peeve is actually seeing older kids in strollers. I hate seeing an older kid who can clearly walk being confined to a stroller and pushed around everywhere instead of out exploring his environment.


----------



## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

We AP, and dd rejected the stroller around 18 months, except to push it herself. It was very helpful at Christmas to have a mobile gift-bag-holding, snack-carrying, diaper-storage unit. Dd just held hands and walked or rode on my sholders.


----------



## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

Why not?

We use a stroller. Do we leave DD in it for hours? Of course not. We use it for short periods of time.

Being AP isn't about following some checklist as some would seem to say. It's an approach not a strict set of rules. It's about being close to your child,being responsive, loving them, teaching them, respecting them, giving kindness and recognizing their individuals in their own right with the right to bodily integrity. You can do all those things even if you use occasionally use a stroller.


----------



## purposefulmother (Feb 28, 2007)

We love to take long walks and the non-walkers are in the stroller. I have no problem with it although I have gotten some looks from some other AP mommies. My ds falls alseep in it and gets really excited when he knows we are going for a walk. For errands I use a mei tai, but if I'm going to walking for 90 minutes, it's the stroller.















:







:







:


----------



## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

I would die without my stroller. It is a lifesaver when we travel as we pile all the luggage in it.

We are always out and about and my kids get tired. there is no way I am slinging a 45 pound, 43" child (we've tried and he doesn't like it anyway). They love the stroller because they jump in and out when they want to.


----------



## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

AP is about listening to your baby's cues. It has nothing to do with baby gear. If your baby is happy in a stroller, then use it!


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Oh, and on my vacation, I see the stroller being a great place for DD to nap, as well as the crap hauler.... ie haul the car seat in the airport, haul coats etc at Disneyland. Plus it has a GREAT drink holder!


----------



## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Huh?? I don't have a car, and I have almost run my stroller into the ground--I can put MILES on that thing in a week. Never used it much until ds was older, though--I can't stand seeing people with newborns and all the contraptions. I take the bus a lot and it's almost comical, seeing people struggle with their big awkward plastic wheeled thing to carry around an...8-pound infant, who would take up less room than their tote bags without it.

I almost never use it for casual strolling--it's always functional. Taking ds to preschool (10 mins on bus plus half mile walk), going grocery shopping, walking the dog, walking to the big park about a half-mile away...

I am one of those people with an older kid in a stroller--he's almost 4 now. Yes indeed, he can walk, and often does--but when I have to be somewhere with him on time, I just can't always spend the extra 45 minutes to go 3 blocks that it would take. And in the stroller he can read, he can have a snack, and I have a handy cart for grocery shopping, to hang my bag full of books on, etc. Frankly, I will be sad when he no longer fits in there, and that day is coming soon. (I do often now stroll him without seatbelt, and he can get up and run or walk for a while if he wants and then sit down again.)

Plus, when he falls asleep--the stroller is a lifesaver. YOU try carrying a sleeping 3-year-old and a heavy backpack from the subway onto a bus and then another 2 blocks home without a stroller... (I did it once, though!)

I think strollers are definitely more natural than cars too--we go out in the rain, the snow--my son definitely knows what weather is. (He actually LIKES to get rained on, he says...) My old MacLaren is rusty, has bald tires---it's still going strong. It's been good exercise for me, too.


----------



## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

I'd be strapping my 26 lb 2 year old into the stroller for shopping all the time if she'd let me. I force her in there if I'm by myself because I can't wear her and the baby. She won't walk without trying to run away so she has to be contained somehow. DH has been wearing her in the Ergo lately and thankfully, he's usually shopping with me so I don't have to fight with her over the stroller.


----------



## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

I think strollers are great for getting from place to place by foot or for having a place to put the baby when you are sitting down to have a coffee or a meal at a restaurant. We still use the Ergo baby carrier for my 2.5 year old and we also still use the stroller. She likes them both and alternates between the two.

I do, however, think strollers tend to be overused in our society. I see so many babies strapped into their strollers when their mothers are just idly chatting to a friend. The baby is trying soooo hard to lift himself out and I can't help but think to myself, "your baby wants to be part of the conversation! He wants you to hold him. He doesn't want to be stuck in that contraption! Pick him up"" But parents tend to think that the baby is "supposed" to be in the stroller, not in their arms, so the baby stays in the stroller.

I am VERY against forcing a toddler to sit in a stroller when he or she wants to walk and there are no safety reasons for limiting movement. I believe that this is cruel and disrespectful to the child.


----------



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Are Strollers Ever OK w/ AP Philosophy?

They are to me and that's all I care about.


----------



## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I guess I don't understand how they are anti-AP??


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiffer23* 
AP is about listening to your baby's cues. It has nothing to do with baby gear. If your baby is happy in a stroller, then use it!









:


----------



## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marnie* 
i think it's also important to remember that "AP" parents live in all different kinds of environments. I don't have a car. We walk everywhere. I think it's easy to judge someone who uses a stroller when you're putting your kid in and out of a car seat when you go shopping - when I'm in the suburbs I see how easy it is to use a car seat, carry the child in the store, push my groceries in the cart, and load up my car, put the child back in the car seat, and drive home.

Living in the city, i don't have a car, no car seat, no way to push the cart to load up the car... the stroller is the only way to shop - if for no other reason than to use the basket to carry the groceries.

I think there's a lot of judgement about what is or isn't AP, when in reality i think the main goal, really, is just for each of us to listen to our children while we try to make it through every day.

Like Marnie and Fuller2, I spent DD's babyhood without a car, basically. After she turned 2 I got a bike with a seat attachment. The stroller was too big a hassle to lug on and off the bus, and I had several occasions where I asked a beleagured mama lugging a travel system on the bus if she'd ever considered a sling.

Until I got the bike I regularly commuted to school by bus, then a 1/4 mi. walk to DD's DCP's house w/ her in front, dipe bag on shoulder, and my backpack on my back, then 1/4 mi. back to the bus stop. The kid and the backpack actually balanced pretty well, as the books weighed more (fortunately for me, my DD is a peanut!)

We did use our stroller every few weeks or so, but it died on us last fall and I chucked it in a dumpster after a failed attempt at a repair (seeing as I'd found it beside a dumpster in the first place, I certainly got a lot of use out of it). Now, we take the bike and a baby carrier and between them and DD wanting to walk some we get where we need to go.


----------



## AllieFaye (Mar 7, 2007)

Balance is one of the components of AP. It's all too easy for new moms to forget that. If mom needs a nice long walk for _her, then putting baby in a stroller is more AP than not meeting her needs._


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I find them cumbersome, so I don;t use them, but I don;t think they are anti AP.


----------



## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I think the issue is that some people over use such things too much. As in they never interact with their children in a physcially or mentally attached way. They go from the car seat, to the stroller, to the stroller to the carseat, to the couch in front of the TV. Parents ignore the child/baby when they are in the stroller.

The problem is not that they are an option.

Because it is harder to ignore a child who is in a sling or running around you must be more attached. With strollers you might need to be more vigilant to seek out attachment if you are the sort of person who zones out or is not overly interactive. (Not suggesting you are - throwing it out there for anyone who might be trying to adjust their stollers-are-evil thoughts)


----------



## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

Almost like bfing in public, wearing your baby (especially a newborn) is still so rare. Some people give you the taboo look. But then that may be a NYC thing. I hardly see moms wearing their babies around me. When I do (granted, he's a big boy), women look at me like I'm a freak. Oh well.

I do use my stroller sparingly. Now that ds is a toddler, I'd much rather give him the exercise of walking to the corner deli. And if he's tired on the way back, I'd hold him. The setback is that my huge grocery bag (because it's a huge fabric contraption) is awfully ugly. Then again, I don't care what others think.

I just get annoyed when women try to tell me what I "should do." Things like, "oh, save your back and put him in a stroller" or "he's gonna have a hard time separating from you if you carry him so much" and blah blah blah.

I do use a stroller. I do love it. But like everyone else has pointed out, it's about balance and baby's preference. My ds likes it. My dd didn't. With my dd, we didn't even own a stroller (except for a freebie from ToysRUs). We had to buy one for ds.

Wish all moms are AP moms sometimes.


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I use strollers and I am most certainly AP! I used them when DS was little because I didn't have a sling and I'd lay him down when he fell asleep if we were out and about. For a long time, I only used them when we went to the mall or a museum, mainly because I could pile all my stuff on the stroller instead of hauling it around. When DS hit about 18 months, he decided he didn't like the Mei Tai anymore. He would push against me and wiggle and fuss when I put him in it. I think he prefers the stroller because he can look around better, plus when he gets tired I can lay him back and he can nap.


----------



## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

I haven't read all posts, so I may be repeating someone's response:

According to my understanding, AP is about following your instincts and responding to baby's needs. Not being knit-picky & getting all riled up about specific details.

I did see a pp's remark that "AP is not about following a list." I couldn't agree MORE!


----------



## jeteaa (Jan 23, 2007)

The ergo carrier is a great way to carry my heavy baby and have my hands free. I felt guilty when ever i put my baby in a stroller. But now that she is crawling and over 20 lbs, sometimes she needs to go in the stoller because she is so wiggly and know what, she enjoys it. I just try to not have her in in too long (20 min). take play breaks etc.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Sure, I use a jogging stroller when I go roller blading. DS2 LOVES it. It's not like I can wear him and blade


----------



## noah's mom (Jan 3, 2006)

Yup, stroller here too. I happen to prefer wearing babes when they're little (and not quite as heavy, lol). But DS loves his umbrella stroller for walks these days - he gets very excited when I ask him if he wants to take a stroller walk! I think it's more of a novelty for them if used judiciously, and thus more fun!

I still prefer to wear DS in the pouch when we go places that are crowded - I feel more secure having him close to me and up on my level, and he seems to as well. I have nightmares about someone not paying attention and crashing into him in that little umbrella stroller, they're so hard to see sometimes in crowds.









So I absolutely believe strollers are "AP"!


----------



## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

I've just started using our stroller - DS is just over 7 months. Honestly, he's getting too heavy to carry him AND a diaper bag on long walks. And he seems to enjoy it for short times. He'll hang out in the stroller for 20-30 minutes, then we play, then he'll switch to the ergo. Rinse and repeat, lol.

The weird thing is it took about 2 weeks to get over my guilt of "I should be wearing him" --- but he seems to be ok in there.


----------



## ^guest^ (Jul 2, 2005)

Bahahaha...anyone who says strollers are not AP did not meet my baby. I had 3 slings before she was even born. She hated EVERY sling, every hold, ANYTHING that confined her to mama's side, aside from my arms. The stroller, however..oh man. Loved it! We have a Jeep Wranger stroller, with the little steering wheel toy in the front that she positively adored. She could stroll for hours and be absolutely content. I felt awful for so long about her hating the sling, thinking I wasn't living up to my AP ideals, until I realized that it's not about supposed AP nomenclature, it's about doing what works best for you and your kids. Forcing the sling on her would have been very UN-AP, to me. Once she turned 1, she started enjoying it more, and I used it more.


----------



## cchrissyy (Apr 22, 2003)

without a stroller I'd be stuck at home. I have more non-walking kids than I can carry at once! So, I always wear one kiddo, but unless I have an adult helping me or a shopping cart where I'm going, the stroller is a true necessity.

In fact, I just got a new one today, and I am so excited about our greater freedom, because it's lighter and faster to use!

"I did see a pp's remark that "AP is not about following a list." I couldn't agree MORE!"
hear, hear!


----------



## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

It is definitely true that you have to work a lot harder to have conversations with child & interact when they are in a stroller. But I sing to my son a lot in the stroller on long walks (we have a song that we only sing on the way to his school) and I also go out of my way to show him things and stop to talk to him while he's in there.

But it is easy for both parties to get sort of lost in their own worlds unless you make an effort to not to that.

As far as criticism of mamas who walk strollers together and talk to each other instead of the kids--bear in mind that that walk might be the only break those mamas are getting all day, and that interaction with other grownups is really important for many mothers in order to be good mamas. I don't think that is a problem.

In my babysitting co-op I used to walk two kids in the double stroller and put one on my back in the backpack, and walk the dog, all at the same time! (I think I was trying to be the most macho mama on the block...) Then two of the 3 kids would fall asleep. Very entertaining trying to get all of us back into the house.


----------



## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
It is definitely true that you have to work a lot harder to have conversations with child & interact when they are in a stroller. But I sing to my son a lot in the stroller on long walks (we have a song that we only sing on the way to his school) and I also go out of my way to show him things and stop to talk to him while he's in there.

But it is easy for both parties to get sort of lost in their own worlds unless you make an effort to not to that.

As far as criticism of mamas who walk strollers together and talk to each other instead of the kids--bear in mind that that walk might be the only break those mamas are getting all day, and that interaction with other grownups is really important for many mothers in order to be good mamas. I don't think that is a problem.

In my babysitting co-op I used to walk two kids in the double stroller and put one on my back in the backpack, and walk the dog, all at the same time! (I think I was trying to be the most macho mama on the block...) Then two of the 3 kids would fall asleep. Very entertaining trying to get all of us back into the house.


Also, I find when I say go shopping wiht another mom, while we are yakking, our kids are interacting with each other too.

And believe me, if mine needs my attention, she'll let me know! I didn't know about baby wearing at all when she was little, but I like to hold babies, so I did that as much as I could. I almost always used a stroller for shopping. I was often seen holding baby, pushing the stroller, and trying to get my shopping done! I got a mei tai at 19 months, and I so wish I had it from birth on.

Now, she has to be contained somehow whenever we are out. The stroller is a must for going for walks, usually a shopping cart for shopping, stroller at the mall. She hates both (loves the stroller for walk outside though) but no choice. It's not safe for her to run off.

Then again, I'm not sp. (cause I couldn't nurse more than a few days, and couldn't co-sleep cause I have a pilowtop mattress.)


----------



## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

We got the stroller, bucket seat combo before ds and it is the first thing that I will change with the next one. I will get the convertiable, no bucket. I would always put him in the sling out of the car, the bucket never came out until we switched it out. I never used the stroller except to take him on walks around the neighborhood when it was to hot to sling him. I don't think they are anti AP, bucket seats, yeah. But strollers... that is preference. Don't beat yourself up because you have a condition that is out of control.. We all do the best WE can.


----------



## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:

As far as criticism of mamas who walk strollers together and talk to each other instead of the kids--bear in mind that that walk might be the only break those mamas are getting all day, and that interaction with other grownups is really important for many mothers in order to be good mamas. I don't think that is a problem.
They're not walking. I could understand if they were walking. They're standing or sitting in the park while the older kids (who have been in daycare all day) are playing. I agree that interaction with other adults is super important. It really is just a cultural thing though. Babies really ARE supposed to be in theiir stroller, not held, according to the thinking here. You will spoil the baby if you hold her all the time.


----------



## wife&mommy (May 26, 2005)

Stroller user here too.


----------



## cfiddlinmama (May 9, 2006)

Everyone has said it so well! I always sling the infants. My kids are close in age. I can't sling a newborn and a 2 year old! I have a double stroller. One side is for the toddler and one is for the diaper bag! I almost never use them anymore though. Ds2 is 3.5 and Dd2 is 21mo. She still likes to be worn and Ds2 can walk now..... I never used it when I had one - what a hassle! The toddler liked being in the stroller, and there was never coercion or force. We have lots of fun when we go out!


----------



## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

i carry my DD most of the time b/c she is intelligent and interactive and i want to take every opportunity to show her the world and explain things to her. yes, she's getting heavy (10 mo.) but on the other hand, my arms are getting stronger, too! i carried her all day at the zoo, carry her while shopping, etc.
we do have a stroller, which i sometimes use for our 45 minute walks with 11 yo golden retriever-- it takes that long for dog to get around the block!


----------



## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Well I guess I would think that by a strict definition, strollers are not AP - in the sense of promoting attachment. Strollers are not a tool to promote attachment- in the sense that there is no body contact, lower than eye-level etc. And as used by some folks, they can encourage "detachment" (how often have you seen the younger sibling strapped into a stroller to watch from a distance at the playground?)

That said, are they an okay part of an AP lifestyle? - well obviously yes (especially if you have a child like mine who wants DOWN out of the sling and wants to look around!).

That's just kind of how I look at it...

hth
peace
robyn


----------



## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

We use the stroller more for carrying the diaper bag and our coats or purchases while out and about than to hold the baby. But we've used it as a place for her to sleep when we were at friend's and family's houses over the holidays, in the pramette feature ours has, when she was about 3 months old.

DH was just saying how we'll probably use the stroller more when the weather gets warmer, and I asked why wouldn't we just keep slinging her? He had no idea why we wouldn't, it just seemed to him like that's what he saw - moms or couples pushing baby in a stroller.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

I probably would have gone nuts or ruined my back without the stroller. When dd was really little, I had one of those carseat/stroller contraptions with the huge basket, which I loved because it was a mile walk to school and I used to put her in the carseat so she was facing me, and carry her diapers and my school books in the basket. I used it for grocery shopping as well, and when I got a ton of stuff I used to fill the stroller and basket, and then carry dd home in the sling. And when she got older we spent a TON of time out with my friends in the summer by the lake etc, and the stroller was great for her to nap in, especially since it's impossible to participate in a game of hacky sack with a sleeping toddler in a sling







That being said, I always had the sling in the basket of the stroller, and had no problem pushing the stroller and having dd in the sling if that's what she wanted.

When we found out we were expecting #2, my first thought was to get another one of those carseat/stroller combos, which I did, and I am sooo looking forward to using it. I think I actually enjoy the large basket for carrying stuff more than anything..and the cup holders!


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RoundAbout* 

My pet peeve is actually seeing older kids in strollers. I hate seeing an older kid who can clearly walk being confined to a stroller and pushed around everywhere instead of out exploring his environment.

Do you have an older child?


----------



## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

I used a sling when my babies were small but had to get a stroller as I was/am a single parent, had no car, was homeless much of the time, had to carry one child, another in the stroller and one walking, all our shopping for the week was on my back and hanging on the handles of the stroller( I used to get some weird looks, some pitying). This was not much fun but hey it got even better when I had to hitch the 30 miles home with all that, we live remote.Really I could have done with something more substantial than a stroller like a handcart or something! I slipped a disc 3 years ago! my back will never be ok again, saying that I just did a whole load of mechanics today to get our car mot and will be putting up our polytunnel soon and still chop wood, do a lot of physical labour and walked 25 miles this week( no car)I feel great for it. The down-side to being a single-mom is no-one seems to want to help us without an ulterior motive, saying that recently I've been very lucky to at last got some help here and there and I always try returning the favour. I have walked miles and miles with strollers out of necessity, I probably would not have left the home if I had no other way to transport my kiddos. There is only so much you can carry. That said my dc have only been in them for the time I've needed it and have spent most of their time running around.


----------



## Kay11 (Aug 30, 2006)

> Originally Posted by RoundAbout
> 
> My pet peeve is actually seeing older kids in strollers. I hate seeing an older kid who can clearly walk being confined to a stroller and pushed around everywhere instead of out exploring his environment.
> QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

I don't know about being AP or not but we certainly used ours. DD came home on O2 and two monitors - we would stick the O2 tank in the basket, the two monitors over the back of the stroller and then our bucket seat (oh the horrors) into the stroller when we went to the doctor's office. Plus that way she was covered from germs







Now that she's bigger, I plan on using our stroller for when I want to walk over to my husband's work from our apartment.But I'm also the kind of mother that you'll see pushing the stroller with one arm and holding her with the other







I don't leave her in there if she's screaming or anything









When it comes down to it - I agree with the sentiment I'm seeing over and over here. I really don't think anything is inherently "AP" or "not AP". You can use almost anything to be attached or unattached.


----------



## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

NAK

That is funny about older kids. We had stopped using a stroller with my 3.5 year old and during a trip to the zoo a few weekends ago he asked where it was --- he wanted to see more animals, but was too tired to continue walking and nobody in the group could carry him (I was too pregnant and my parents are just too old to carry around a child his size so we had to leave) I also like to let my older children walk and explore, but sometimes one needs to get from point A to point B and the kids would rather ride whereas other times we would rather walk. When they are the age to do so, I often make a point to give them a choice (do you want to walk, ride in the wagon, ride in the stroller, the backpack, etc.) Until recently my ds2 usually picked the backpack on dh because he "likes the view"







(dh is 6 foot 4 inches)

As for if we interact and bond with our kids when they are in strollers as much as slings, probably not. Do I think it is a problem? Not really







:
I mean if my children are ever unhappy or seem in need of cuddles while in the stroller, I pick them up and carry them. OTH I am a ft sahm who interacts with my children ALL the time --- if we go on a walk or a family outing once or twice a week --- I think they sometimes enjoy the stimulation of someone other than me







Just because I want to promote a strong bond and let them know I am always available for them doesn't mean there aren't other interesting things to see in the world. I mean who would rather be looking at mama than the zoo animals or the items in the children's museum?









Lastly, I think we need to be careful to rush to judgement when we see an infant in a travel carseat who is sleeping peacefully. For all we know it is a collicky baby who has been crying for hours on end and falls asleep in the carseat after a quick drive --- my neighbors dd would scream for hours and hours and never sleep until she would pop her in the car and drive a couple of blocks --- my friend used to say the only place she could get the rest she needed was out and about in her seat until the colic passed.

BJ
Barney, Ben & Patrick


----------



## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't see strollers as being un-AP unless babies/toddlers are left crying in them. If the kid is happy and mom is happy, I don't see a problem. Also, for moms with a baby and a young toddler, I imagine it can be near possible to sling both of them at the same time and get any shopping done. I don't see it realistic to expect a 15 month old to walk with mom at moms pace and stay out of trouble/davger while she shops and wears her younger child.

I wear my dd in a mei tai when we go out. She is 16 months old and can walk (actually, she runs, no longer walks







: ) but she immediatly starts ripping stuff off of the shelves and runs away from me if I put her down. So I NEED to keep her confined to the mei tai. She is only 20 lbs, so its easy to wear her. But, if she were 30 lbs, and/or if I had another little one, she would be in a stroller.


----------



## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Because we walked everywhere-often a couple of miles overall and the kids got tired and wanted to ride

So I let them.

<shrug>

when I had a 2 yo and a newborn I had to confine the 2 yo to a stroller because I couldn't run fast enough with the baby in the sling. I also couldn't carry a 45 lb 2yo AND a baby in a sling. I only mention this because my then 2yo was bigger than many 4 yos.

Sometimes kids wanted to walk-sometimes they wanted to ride.


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

It's so easy to judge someone when you haven't been in that position. Before I had kids, I was VERY critical of parents whose older toddlers had pacifiers. Welp, my 2.5 year old is VERY attached to his binky







: and I am not about to take away something that soothes and comforts him.

I have a stroller. I actually have a double stroller. I saved for months for it







. It's a Peg Perego Twin Aria, and if anyone hurts my baby, they'll PAY







:

I have a one year old and a two year old. I'm four months pregnant. So sorry if it bothers anyone that my big boy is not 'exploring his environment', but until you've had a two year old boy 'explore his environment', you probably shouldn't judge a parent who chooses to occasionally use a stroller


----------



## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
So sorry if it bothers anyone that my big boy is not 'exploring his environment', but until you've had a two year old boy 'explore his environment', you probably shouldn't judge a parent who chooses to occasionally use a stroller



















Exactly.


----------



## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marnie* 
i think it's also important to remember that "AP" parents live in all different kinds of environments. I don't have a car. We walk everywhere. I think it's easy to judge someone who uses a stroller when you're putting your kid in and out of a car seat when you go shopping - when I'm in the suburbs I see how easy it is to use a car seat, carry the child in the store, push my groceries in the cart, and load up my car, put the child back in the car seat, and drive home.

Living in the city, i don't have a car, no car seat, no way to push the cart to load up the car... the stroller is the only way to shop - if for no other reason than to use the basket to carry the groceries.

I think there's a lot of judgement about what is or isn't AP, when in reality i think the main goal, really, is just for each of us to listen to our children while we try to make it through every day.

That is a great point about the different environments. My DP has experience raising babies in Germany, in a very pedestrian-oriented city. I was once trying to explain the importance of carrying, and why it's better than the stroller etc, and he's just shaking his head... says, "How can you go grocery shopping without a stroller? It's the only way to get the bags back to the house without stealing a cart from the store..."

We don't live in an environment like that and I could totally see situations here in which a stroller would be more practical than a sling, at least once the baby is a little older.


----------



## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WeasleyMum* 
I was once trying to explain the importance of carrying, and why it's better than the stroller etc, and he's just shaking his head... says, "How can you go grocery shopping without a stroller? It's the only way to get the bags back to the house without stealing a cart from the store..."

You let the child walk beside you as early an age as possible. At least that is what I do here in Rome, Italy (also very pedestrian oriented). The Maclaren stroller hardly carries enough stuff, so I wear a backpack, carry the remaining bags around my wrists and hold my toddlers hand. The stroller is just cumbersome, especially with so many places that have stairs here (not at all a handicapped friendly place, either, as you can imagine...).


----------



## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama* 









Exactly.


Word!
I have a double stroller and a single.
They both get alot of use, however I have more kids under the age of 4 than most







:

My youngest DS does like to walk and we do let him! he has this adorable back pack/harness he wears..














it's a monkey and then he can run but not run far and we end up chasing him..









However thats not practical all the time you know? I could never expect him to walk down the street willingly at his tender age.

he loves his strollers.
Not sure if anyone is aware but the Stokke Xplory is a fab stroller that puts your child up at your level... very AP imo.


----------



## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Do you have an older child?

I don't like it either. But you never know if it is because of a developmental delay or such.

I think that so very many problems with lack of exercise for children start young. I'm 33 and I know that there was not so many children in strollers for so long when I was young. I bet that if someone ran a correlation study, they'd find that lack of exercise and its problems in children corresponds with greater stroller use.

However, it is a pain in the butt to have multiple littles who are running in different directions when you need milk and bread.


----------



## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

We pretty much used a sling or mei tai until recently. But dd is now 20 pounds and tall--and I'm a shrimpy little mama who spends much of my day chasing and scooping up my crawler when she gets into trouble. My back simply will not withstand a ton of babywearing now. We use the mei tai for quick walks--usually when we're walking the dog--but now we use the stroller for longer walks. I interact with dd the whole time--I talk to her, sing to her, point things out to her--and I bring the mei tai in case she wants out.(Yesterday we went to the park, for instance, and dd did NOT want to ride in the stroller to go back home--so dh pushed it while I carried her.) We have a mother's helper who's come 2-3 mornings a week since dd was 3 months, and she's always used the stroller with dd.

I don't see what would be wrong with it, so long as one is meeting her baby's needs. If dd was miserable and crying in her stroller, I wouldn't use it (of course, given how hard she is for me to carry now, that means we wouldn't be getting out much!). As long as she's happy and it gives her the chance to get out and see the neighborhood, I don't see a problem.

I must confess, though, that I too find it a little squicky when I see teeny tiny newborns who just go from bucket to bucket all day long.


----------



## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

We didn't have a car and lived in a big city. A stroller is wonderful in that situation. I also used a sling sometimes and put groceries and such in the stroller. LOL

We travel a lot too. That means a lot of walking for little, short legs so a stroller in that situation (depending on the city's terrain and layout) is helpful too.

I practice AP and I do not find that ALL stroller use is anti-AP. I have seen mamas who plunk kids down in them and don't interact with the children and that might be what you are thinking of...and yes, I don't consider that in line with AP.


----------



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

The way I see it, when babies were in the womb, they had constant contact 24 hours a day and after they were born they still needed a lot of contact. We did slings and then an Ergo when DD was young. The only place I used a stroller was the occasional trip to the mall because I found trying on clothes was hard with DD in a sling.







Now, the only stroller we have is a jogging stroller, so DD walks, is carried or goes in the Ergo (less frequently then I like) everywhere except on recreational walks. At this point (23 months), she has been asserting her independence more and more so she can tolerate less touch then she could when she was an infant. I see moving towards independence as a continum that is controlled by her for the most part. I have no problems with the stroller for "bigger" kids and I think that they can be used sparingly with infants consistent with AP.

That said, I saw a grandma at the crunchy grocery store the other day propping her grandbaby's bottle while pushing her in the stroller. That made me sad.







(Both mom and grandma were there, surely one of them could have held the baby while she ate. There is even a cafe if *both* of them had back problems.) And yes, I am nosy.


----------



## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
In my babysitting co-op I used to walk two kids in the double stroller and put one on my back in the backpack, and walk the dog, all at the same time! (I think I was trying to be the most macho mama on the block...) Then two of the 3 kids would fall asleep. Very entertaining trying to get all of us back into the house.

I do home daycare, and have done this exact same thing many times to get the kids to the park to play. How else do you get a 2yo, 3yo and an infant all there?


----------



## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippymomma69* 
Well I guess I would think that by a strict definition, strollers are not AP - in the sense of promoting attachment. Strollers are not a tool to promote attachment- in the sense that there is no body contact, lower than eye-level etc. And as used by some folks, they can encourage "detachment" (how often have you seen the younger sibling strapped into a stroller to watch from a distance at the playground?)
That's just kind of how I look at it...

hth
peace
robyn

Well they most certainly do promote attachement if you have a little one like my oldest dd was. She HATED being held close to me. She would grunt and push herself away as much as possible. All her energy went into trying to get away.

In the stroller (with carseat attachment) she would gaze into my eyes, laugh at me, make faces, and interact in a joyful and happy manner.

How did the strolller "NOT" promote attachment?


----------



## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
You let the child walk beside you as early an age as possible.

Well not all kids are just going to walk beside you. My little guy from the age of 13 months on has been like Forrest Gump, if he's going somewhere, he's runnin'. Of course we've had to stress road safety (we're still doing that) and he knows there are times he can't run ahead (though still needs to be reminded often), but in earlier years a stroller did keep him safer and I never remember him crying or yelling to get out of it. I know what you mean though about stairs. I've had to carry my sleeping child up or down stairs in a stroller many times and that is hard work!

Now this part is in response to others, not the quote above:
In both France and Switzerland I've found using the stroller to be such a simplifier (umbrella strollers, that is, because sometimes sidewalks are too narrow for any other kind), but my DS has never been "confined to" or "strapped in" a stroller or deprived of "exploring his environment". This is so comical to me because most kids know very well how to unbuckle the strap and hop right out. My DS has done it plenty of times while in motion!









Seriously people who are so bothered by older kids in strollers (at age 5.5 my DS no longer uses one, but when he was 4 he did at times when it made sense to use one) would do well to mind their own business and stop the judgement because they are being ridiculous. Why should a tired 3 or 4 year old (or even older, if mom and kid are both OK with it) be forced to walk a long way when he or she would much rather relax, enjoy the ride and possibly take a nap?


----------



## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
Seriously people who are so bothered by older kids in strollers (at age 5.5 my DS no longer uses one, but when he was 4 he did at times when it made sense to use one) would do well to mind their own business and stop the judgement because they are being ridiculous. Why should a tired 3 or 4 year old (or even older, if mom and kid are both OK with it) be forced to walk a long way when he or she would much rather relax, enjoy the ride and possibly take a nap?

I commonly start off errands with my 23-month-old walking while I push the empty stroller alongside her. When she gets tired, she asks to get in the stroller. If someone passed by then and thought, "How sad that this big walking girl isn't allowed to explore her environment," they'd be totally off-base.

Once I saw a kid who looked to be five or six being pushed in a stroller, and my snap judgment was, "Whoa! They should let that kid walk!" Then I remembered where we were - a pediatric cardiology clinic - and realized that the child was probably too ill to walk the distance from the parking garage to the clinic. I try to remember that incident when I find myself tempted to make snap judgments about strangers.


----------



## Snowdrift (Oct 15, 2005)

Just unfolded my stroller for the first time ever! DD is ten months. This morning I wore both babies while walking around in the house, but now we'd like to go for a walk and 31 pounds between two babies in two wraps is a bit cumbersome imho for an enjoyable walk.


----------



## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5* 
I commonly start off errands with my 23-month-old walking while I push the empty stroller alongside her. When she gets tired, she asks to get in the stroller. If someone passed by then and thought, "How sad that this big walking girl isn't allowed to explore her environment," they'd be totally off-base.

Yes, that's what I did a lot too. He might have run, skipped, climbed on things all the way to where we were going and then hopped in the stroller to ride back (often falling asleep which is why I bought an unmbrella stroller that reclined).

My DS had a heart operation, so I get what you're saying about the kids at the cardiology clinic, but there are also times when kids are just feeling a bit under the weather but you still need to get somewhere. When I visit the U.S. this isn't much of a problem since where my family lives you can just drive everywhere (not to mention my mom can babysit if needed), but I don't live in an area where you can just pull up in the parking lot of wherever you're going.


----------



## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
You let the child walk beside you as early an age as possible. At least that is what I do here in Rome, Italy (also very pedestrian oriented). The Maclaren stroller hardly carries enough stuff, so I wear a backpack, carry the remaining bags around my wrists and hold my toddlers hand. The stroller is just cumbersome, especially with so many places that have stairs here (not at all a handicapped friendly place, either, as you can imagine...).

All I can say is...wait until your kid is 3 or 4 and then see how easy it is to keep them next to you while you are walking with bags







. But yeah, dragging a stroller up & down stairs is not easy (they will definitely have to walk then, it's what I usually do with my ds unless he's asleep). Though in the subway people will usually help you. (usually it's a young woman, sigh--the young men just run you over)

Having a stroller has made me far more aware of what it must be like to be in a wheelchair too. My son is very good at finding the signs that automatically open doors, he loves wheelchair ramps, etc. Wheelchair friendly places are great for mothers too--you never see that get mentioned.

I do want to make some kind of 'ticket' to give to people who don't shovel their sidewalks in winter. I walk half a mile each way to my son's preschool and in January when people don't shovel, or just do a tiny little trail for someone to walk single file in, I am livid. But I guess they don't imagine someone is going to be using a stroller when it's 25 degrees and there's 5 inches of snow on the ground







. (I do still drag out the backpack when it's really bad...)


----------



## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
I don't like it either. But you never know if it is because of a developmental delay or such.

I think that so very many problems with lack of exercise for children start young. I'm 33 and I know that there was not so many children in strollers for so long when I was young. I bet that if someone ran a correlation study, they'd find that lack of exercise and its problems in children corresponds with greater stroller use.

Exactly - I've often wondered about the connection to childhood obesity. I remember a funny story where a family took their young child around Cambodia in a stroller and everyone there thought their kid was handicapped - "what's wrong with his legs?" I am 32 and my parents never owned a stroller. I was made to walk everywhere at an early age, with occasianal rides in grocery carts and on dads back, and trips were limited to what I could handle.

I don't think anyone here is criticizing the occasional use of a stoller at any age, but I do see a lot of mainstream moms whose older kids practically live in their strollers (long trips around the mall without even taking their kids out to play or for a meal).


----------



## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 

I must confess, though, that I too find it a little squicky when I see teeny tiny newborns who just go from bucket to bucket all day long.

I definitely know moms who do this, but I also realize this is probably what I look like occasionally. LOL Ever since DS was born I've had about one 2 hour period each week where he's in an exceptionally good mood and I race around like crazy and try to get all of my errands done - grocery shopping, post office, video store, etc. My DH has been deployed to Iraq since I was 7 months pregnant and I have no other support so I have to do everything myself. If DS is asleep or content in his bucket then I just let him be. I'm sure the people who see me have no idea that the other 99% of the time I'm home holding, nursing, and loving my baby.

I think this thread has revealed that you can't judge anyone based on a mere glance. I know I've learned a lot from reading this.


----------



## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RoundAbout* 
I don't think anyone here is criticizing the occasional use of a stoller at any age, but I do see a lot of mainstream moms whose older kids practically live in their strollers (long trips around the mall without even taking their kids out to play or for a meal).

It's not anyone's place to criticize the use of a stroller in general, occasional use OR regular use, because you have no idea how or why other people use it.

There is no difference between a kid sitting in his carseat being driven to the store or a child in a stroller being walked to the store.
Actually, there is a nice difference for the stroller kid-- he or she can walk part of the way and gets fresh air. Those poor, poor, carseat kids, never getting to explore their enviroments.







(I'm kidding, of course.)

I think you're very right about not being able to judge at a mere glance. I can totally see why the "bucket" system would work well for getting in and out of the car without disturbing your baby too much. Even if the baby is awake he/she might be the type who doesn't like the transition of getting in and out of his seat a lot.

eta PS: I hope your DH is back home soon.


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
So sorry if it bothers anyone that my big boy is not 'exploring his environment', but until you've had a two year old boy 'explore his environment', you probably shouldn't judge a parent who chooses to occasionally use a stroller

















:


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
You let the child walk beside you as early an age as possible.

How old are your children?

Not every child will walk quietly beside there Parent. Some children will take off and start running as soon as their little feet hit the pavement.

I know. I have one.

What do you recommend for Children who are runners and too big to sling?


----------



## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
It's not anyone's place to criticize the use of a stroller in general, occasional use OR regular use, because you have no idea how or why other people use it.

I completely agree.


----------



## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
It's not anyone's place to criticize the use of a stroller in general, occasional use OR regular use, because you have no idea how or why other people use it.
and
I think you're very right about not being able to judge at a mere glance.


----------



## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

RoundAbout said:


> Exactly - I've often wondered about the connection to childhood obesity. I remember a funny story where a family took their young child around Cambodia in a stroller and everyone there thought their kid was handicapped - "what's wrong with his legs?" I am 32 and my parents never owned a stroller. I was made to walk everywhere at an early age, with occasianal rides in grocery carts and on dads back, and trips were limited to what I could handle.
> 
> I think the automobile and the fact that hardly anyone seems to play outside anymore has a much bigger effect on childhood obesity than the stroller. But if your kid is in the stroller constantly than yeah, that makes sense. (You're not likely to see an obsese stroller-pushing urban mom, though...)
> 
> ...


----------



## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
That said, I saw a grandma at the crunchy grocery store the other day propping her grandbaby's bottle while pushing her in the stroller. That made me sad.







(Both mom and grandma were there, surely one of them could have held the baby while she ate. There is even a cafe if *both* of them had back problems.) And yes, I am nosy.

Maybe the baby kicks and wriggles and is very distractable when eating and being held.

My little one certainly is, and at this age, most of the time, he eats better if we lay him in a high chair and hold his bottle, rather than holding him in our arms. If he's sleepy or snuggly, then sure, we'll hold him while we feed him. And when he nurses, he's (of course) held.

But if he is pushing his feet against our arms, kicking the bottle out of our hands, wiggling, twisting and turning to look around, etc...

..and if he eats happily without being distracted if he's sitting on his own in a stroller or highchair with us holding his bottle... eh. You do what makes both of you happiest in that moment.

I really don't think it's a big deal. Not all babies lay happily in the crook of your arm with a bottle at every stage of development.


----------



## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

.


----------



## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

I think this conversation is going surprisingly well considering the fact that this can sometimes be a touchy subject for some people. Let's try to keep the thread nice and polite, even if we have differing views.

Thanks everyone


----------



## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

I was reminded today of another reason why an older child might prefer a stroller. We went to the library, and my 23-month-old was so excited by one of the new books we were checking out (_Alligators All Around,_ by Maurice Sendak) that she "read" it for the entire six-block stroller ride home.

Can't read while you're walking!


----------



## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Grr, i just wrote out a huge, rambling reply with hillarious anecdotes, and the server burped and killed it.

Brief run down:

Yes, i feel strollers are absolutely AP.
I have a 5 year old and a 9 month old. My 5 year old is actually more likely to be riding in the stroller. On days we go into town, I will walk 8-10 miles.

Obviously, it is impractical to expect DS to walk that far, and there is no way my back will stand for carrying DD that long. In fact, i started with her riding in the stroller as soon as possible, because I wanted her to be used to it so that the day i can no longer carry her, it isn't a shock.

I will often get comments about DS riding. I will usually whip around and chew the person out if they are snarky, or gently inform them that I would like to see them actually walk as far as we do in a day.

DS and I interact while he's in the stroller. He has a running commentary about everything he sees, and he will often hop out so we can have races, etc.


----------



## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
Grr, i just wrote out a huge, rambling reply with hillarious anecdotes, and the server burped and killed it.

Brief run down:

Yes, i feel strollers are absolutely AP.
I have a 5 year old and a 9 month old. My 5 year old is actually more likely to be riding in the stroller. On days we go into town, I will walk 8-10 miles.

Obviously, it is impractical to expect DS to walk that far, and there is no way my back will stand for carrying DD that long. In fact, i started with her riding in the stroller as soon as possible, because I wanted her to be used to it so that the day i can no longer carry her, it isn't a shock.

I will often get comments about DS riding. I will usually whip around and chew the person out if they are snarky, or gently inform them that I would like to see them actually walk as far as we do in a day.

DS and I interact while he's in the stroller. He has a running commentary about everything he sees, and he will often hop out so we can have races, etc.

Absolutely, my older ds is 3.5 and I don't drive. Our stroller is my vehicle for getting my kids around and I usually sling the baby and my big boy rides for the long walk, then when we get to a store or somewhere fun ds hops out and the baby can ride and I get a bit of a break. This is especially nice in the heat and humidity when bwing is best in small doses.


----------



## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erin+babyAndrew* 
Absolutely, my older ds is 3.5 and I don't drive. Our stroller is my vehicle for getting my kids around

Me too. When I bought the double, I justified to cost to DH by saying "I would rather have a $600 stroller than a $600 car"


----------



## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

We live in the city and don't use a car. We do all our shopping and errands on foot, and we also take DS to the park twice a day so that he can get his outdoor play time (we don't have a yard).

It is quite urban here, and between our house and the park is a rather nasty few blocks that I wouldn't want a toddler "exploring" on foot even if he held my hand all the way!

I was using the Ergo every day, but now that I'm 8 weeks pregnant and my belly is quite tender, it's just too uncomfortable to carry my 35 lb toddler. So, the stroller is my best option now.

I don't love the stroller, but I try to make it fun for him. I tilt it way back so he's looking up at the sky, I lean over and kiss him, I bounce it around on bumpy streets, I sing to him, I go fast and slow and in circles... we have a pretty good time.

I don't think that going places in a stroller is what teaches a child to be sedentary. Even though he rides in the stroller, he sees *me* modeling healthy behavior: walking everywhere we go, all day! It's very different from seeing a parent driving everywhere to do the errands.


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RoundAbout* 

I think this thread has revealed that you can't judge anyone based on a mere glance. I know I've learned a lot from reading this.

I've learned a lot, too! I think it's good for all of us (myself included of course!) to have reminders of some of the situations described here.


----------



## teeny_bean (Jul 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2* 
Huh?? I don't have a car, and I have almost run my stroller into the ground--I can put MILES on that thing in a week. Never used it much until ds was older, though--I can't stand seeing people with newborns and all the contraptions. I take the bus a lot and it's almost comical, seeing people struggle with their big awkward plastic wheeled thing to carry around an...8-pound infant, who would take up less room than their tote bags without it.

Heh. I wear my three week old baby literally all day long, if we're around the house or visiting people. He cries and cries if you try to put him to sleep in a crib, and must be held in someone's arms in order to be happy, so there are maybe two or three hours total throughout the day when someone isn't holding him. We use a couple of different style carriers, depending on his mood.

But when we go out shopping or what have you, we use the stroller/carseat combo. He _likes_ being in the carseat, and sleeps peacefully while he's in it. Putting him into or removing him from the carseat wakes him up, though, and when he wakes up, he screams. So, we keep the stroller in the trunk of the car, and use it in stores. No way am I waking up my baby and wrestling his fussy, crying self into a carrier, just so that I can carry him around a store for thirty minutes, then have to wrestle him back into the carseat when we get out to the car again.







It is way easier on all of us to simply remove the carseat from the base, snap it into the stroller, get the shopping done, and get out quickly without ever waking him up.

I was judgemental about infant carseat/stroller combos until I actually had my son. Now, I find that in certain circumstances, they are just the right choice for us.

I don't think I would like to use one on the bus, though...


----------



## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I think almost anything is AP as long as it is what your child needs.

By 1 year, my DD preferred the stroller at times and did not like the carrier all the time . . .so that is what I did. I went with what she needed/wanted.

It would have been silly to have her in a carrier because of MY views.


----------



## krisw (Jun 8, 2006)

I loved our travel system when my son was smaller because it meant if he was asleep in the car, we could still go in someplace without waking him up--pop the seat in the stroller and in we go. I still like the stroller for long stretches of walking as I have problems with my back and knees. I put the sling or now my new Ergo in the bottom of it for when he is ready to be carried, but he also likes to be in the stroller sometimes for room to wiggle, play with a toy, bounce around, etc. Oh, and it carries the diaper bag and stuff =)

I also learned that if I recline the stroller and open the front tray, I can use it for diaper changes.


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

We just got back from vacation, and let me tell you, the stroller was a LIFESAVER! It got hot, too hot for those of us from snow country, to wear her in the mei tai. I did wear her when it was cooler.

She loved being able to watch the world go by in the stroller. We bought her some ballons and tied them on and she loved pulling on the strings getting them to bounce.

I had to laugh because at times stroller parking was at a premium... we were at Disneyland. It was so nice to have the stroller to haul the diaper bag and to have the basket under to carry hoddies for when it got cold and snacks. When we had to go to the bathroom it was nice to be able to just wheel her on into one of the disabled stalls and not worry about switching her off or anything like that. It was also nice to have somewhere for her to sit when we fed her, as they don't have highchairs all over the park.

We had only occasionally used our stroller before the trip, and we really used ours.

People would laugh because DD sat in the stroller like it was her personal lounge chair, with her feet up and all.

She was held and worn for a good part of the trip, but the stroller was wonderful for when we were all tired and hot.


----------



## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
How old are your children?

Not every child will walk quietly beside there Parent. Some children will take off and start running as soon as their little feet hit the pavement.

I know. I have one.

What do you recommend for Children who are runners and too big to sling?

My 19 month old will NOT walk nicely next to Mama. He wants to go where he wants to go, and if I take his hand and try to lead him he plops himself down on his butt and screams. He's happy as a clam in his stroller, nary a peep and happy to be pushed around, but if he's on his feet he isn't very cooperative! I sling his brother, and occasionally him, but our sling days may be ending for a while. My back is in bad shape ,had to make an emergency visit to chiro today because I was in so much pain. We are shopping for a tandem stroller now because Mama just can't do this anymore.







:


----------



## SwissMama (Sep 5, 2005)

Definitely depends on your child.









I looooove our stroller, but our child never did. That's how I got into babywearing in the first place. She's a great walker and everytime I put her in the stroller, i feel like I'm putting her in a cage. But, as you can see with the rest of the replies, its just *our* kid that I believe its not "AP" for. Other than that I would never say it doesn't fit into my philosophy or "AP" Philosophy. Like you i had no idea it was even a topic of debate!


----------



## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

We use our stroller pretty regularly. Anytime I go out alone with both kids. I don't think they're anti ap.


----------



## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

I did see a kid on the bus the other day who obviously wanted to get out of his stroller and onto his daddy's lap--but his dad literally kept shoving him back down into his seat, saying "NO!." Kid didn't even look two







.

When ds was an infant, I deliberately bought a car seat that didn't click in and out of a base, so that I would be less tempted to carry him around in it. However, the couple of times he fell asleep in it when I was going out somewhere (rather than home), I discovered I was pretty happy about that handle on the 'bucket.' I remember eating an entire restaurant meal with him snoozing in the seat next to me, and feeling both happy he was napping but also a little embarassed because I had become one of the baby bucket people, at least temporarily.

Sigh. At least I could still feel superior to people who keep their wide-awake babies strapped into them...


----------



## Dael (Jan 1, 2007)

My DD prefers the stroller(just look at the picture), sometimes at home, I'l put her in the stroller, I don't know if it's bad lol, she's in it know as a matter of fact.


----------



## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

to the OP ~~ yes, Strollers are fine by AP philosophy, and if not, then kick me out of the AP club.









because of previous injuries, i could not wear my dd for quite awhile, or even pick her up (i had to have other people pick her up when it was necessary). then after another injury, i *had* to use her stroller, because i couldn't walk without assistance.

i dare anyone to tell me i'm less AP just because i've had to adapt the way my parent to deal with my physical limitations in a way that enables me to care for my children.







:


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aura_Kitten* 
i dare anyone to tell me i'm less AP just because i've had to adapt the way my parent to deal with my physical limitations in a way that enables me to care for my children.







:

I'm sorry, AK, but we're going to have to revoke your membership. Don't you know you can't be in the club unless you can run a marathon while carrying your 4-yo in a MeiTai..... some people, sheesh


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Well, I certaintly hope that its ok... otherwise I don't know what I'm going to do when I have 2+ kids one day.









As of right now, I only have one DC.. and while he's almost 2yo, he weighs under 20 pounds. So its sooooo much easier to just stick him on my back than lug around a stroller. I especially love wearing him while grocery shopping because I can abandoned my cart to run down an aisle to grab one thing and I get my shopping done faster.









I agree with the PP though - I hate seeing the teeny newborns in the "travel systems" constantly. I was talking to a mom in the waiting room where DS goes to therapy and her newborn DD was in one of those things (ya know, in the infant carseat, on top of the stroller). I mean, why go through the trouble? She lugged out an infant seat and a stroller to walk literally about 20 feet and then park her baby instead of just carrying her in? Now that doesn't make any sense to me. If I had passed her in a store or on the street, I wouldn't have thought anything of it... But this mama was using the stroller as a baby holder, not to stroll.


----------



## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

ah, ok then.







i will happily call myself the radical mainstream mama lurking here at MDC.









... uh, do i have to go buy Ezzo's book and rethink my decision to send my dd's old sling to my ex-gf...?


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

I consider using a stroller to be more in line with AP/NFL than using a car, which is what our alternative would be for longer jaunts. Getting to the library for story time, for example, takes 40 minutes walking fast. If I had to carry DS it would take an hour each way and I would be too exhausted afterwards to do anything else the rest of the day! Because we have the stroller, we walk _everywhere_, and DS loves it. Going out in the stroller is the one thing that will always cheer him up if he's cranky. You just have to do what's right for your family.


----------



## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I carry them until they are about 15 lbs, and then I transition to using the stroller more or even having them walk (since my kids grow slowly). My stroller is appropriate until the baby can sit up very well. Used it for the first time with ds 8 months Saturday. He liked it as long as we kept moving. I'm shopping for a 2 seater now, because I'm going to have 3 under 4!


----------



## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

This thread reminds me of when DD was about 6 months old and DS was not quite two. One and three quarters?

I was doing some shopping and didn't want to lug the double stroller into the mall. I thought, "hey, maybe I can wear them both?!!!"









So I put baby in a front pack carrier on my chest, then I put big boy in a backpack carrier and stood up. And fell over









Yeah. That wasn't happening


----------



## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

I have to laugh at this thread because we all live such different lives.

During the summer, I try to walk to our downtown (4 miles one way) and eat lunch at one of the gorgeous restaurants with yummy food down there several times a week. I have two 25 pound kids. Can you imagine walking 8 miles with two toddlers?? Eep. I've had disc surgery while pregnant with DS. The very idea of an 8 mile walk like that makes me want to throw up.

Without the stroller, I'd take the car. So our 5 hour sojourn in the fresh air would be a 1 hour trip. And there would be no health benefit for mama.

Last week when it hit 60 degrees for about 30 minutes, we walked two miles to the grocery store. I don't get why anyone would think driving there would be more "AP." And for those of us with multiple kids, are we supposed to leave a kid at home alone so we can babywear? Exactly who would be more dangerous alone? The almost 3 year old or the almost 2 year old??


----------



## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Yeah... I don't see that using a car is anti-ap. My commute would be at least an hour + walking... it's 11 minutes in the car including picking DD up.

Maybe Trillian lives somewhere were there is a great public transist system but that is not where I live. I wish that was the case where I live.

I can sing and talk to DD while I drive. If we lived in a city like San Francisco or NYC where the transit system is great I would not have a car. However, I just can't see life here without a car. For me, it is VERY AP to have her securely and correctly restrained in the car, as I think one of my most primal jobs as a parent is to protect my LO.


----------



## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

I think what Trillian was getting at was not that cars are evil, but rather that a part of NFL is reducing our environmental footprint. Therefore, popping the kid in the stroller and walking instead of driving (when walking is a practical alternative) is very much in line with the values.


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
I think what Trillian was getting at was not that cars are evil, but rather that a part of NFL is reducing our environmental footprint. Therefore, popping the kid in the stroller and walking instead of driving (when walking is a practical alternative) is very much in line with the values.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. That is indeed what I meant. I mostly wanted to point out that people compare strollers negatively to babywearing, but when the alternatives are using a stroller vs. using a car, I prefer to use a stroller, both for environmental reasons and because it provides more stimulation for my baby. But I am lucky to live in a situation where a stroller is almost always a viable alternative to driving.


----------

