# Bedtime routine problems in strong-willed children



## tammyw (Sep 21, 2003)

Here is our *normal* bedtime routine. Have a bath, towel off, get on pajamas, brush teeth, read books, lights out, then tell her a couple stories and then lay with her until she falls asleep. (usually there is a snack in there as well).

The problem is it is often a fight with my VERY strong-willed 3.5 year old. Like tonight, she would NOT put on her pajamas. She instead wanted to jump on the sofa, draw, whatever. I of course got frustrated. I took her into the room and said she had a choice - put on her pajamas or wear her underwear (which she was already wearing) to bed. She just kept stalling and wouldn't answer. I feel like we're always just asking her 30 times to get her pajamas on.

So I feel like I have no idea how to enforce the rules. Our rules are not unreasonable, and we give her lots of room to play. Maybe we're too flexible, who knows. BUt I feel like I have absolutely no idea how to enforce the rules.

So in this instance, what's a way to enforce this rule. She doesn't fall asleep until 9-9:30. We've tried earlier bedtime routines, later bedtime routines, and she still won't fall asleep until that time.

Any REAL suggestions?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

We have struggled mightily with this too. My DD really, truly needs to go to bed at the time we aim for her to go. Delaying bed, which she wants to do in order to have more fun, ends badly for everyone.

And so--this has been our first use of logical consequences, a.k.a. threats.







: We normally read 3 books before bed. If she absolutely is dawdling and not cooperating, we tell her "One more chance to get your PJs on," (or whatever) "or we'll only have time for two books." And so on. We take away one book fairly often, but I can only remember one time when we took away two.

I don't like this much at all, but it is effective (she LOVES her books), and better than us losing our patience and yelling at her, or her getting to bed really late. I don't like the threat/reward type of parenting generally. But an occasional if/then is sometimes called for, IMO, depending on child and parent.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

loraxc, I don't see that as a threat but as telling someone what there is and is not time for. When we make choices (as in taking a long time to do something) there is often some consequence to that choice (we don't have as much time to do the next thing)-I believe "opportunity cost" is the term I'm looking for here. I can see why some would see that as controlling and threatening, but I don't. Not when a child really needs their sleep (is a bear the next day without getting enough) and needs help getting there.

OP, what helps my strong-willed/spirited/high needs child settle down is to have a really soothing evening (not just bedtime) routine and a _very_ regular and early bedtime. If we get out of our routine for just one night, her sleeping habits and ability to fall asleep can be disrupted for a week or more. I try to encourage my kids to start winding down and engaging in quiet activities by about 5:30-6:00 pm. This is before dinner for us. Showers/bath before dinner rather than right before bed work great, something about this helps my kids relax better wheras doing it right before bed can rile them up. After dinner we encourage either quiet play or all working together to get the kitchen cleaned up (depends on the state of the children, the time). The tricky part has always been pajamas and toothbrushing, but the more quiet they've been before bed the more smoothly it goes (because they're calm, not all energized and active and playing). Then once my spirited one is in bed, the things that best help her relax are singing to her, doing a guided imagery story with her, or doing a progressive relaxation exercise (tensing groups of muscles then relaxing them). She likes a bit of lavender oil on her pillow, and some "ambient" music (we have one cd called "ambient music for sleep") or "white noise" like her cds that are recordings of the sound of a river or a rainstorm. The room has to be dark. Often she needs a few minutes to talk about her day, but can literally talk for hours if we don't stop her so if she's going on and on we'll stop her with the song or imagery/relaxation exercise.

I have found that a consistent wake-up time and early morning exercise outdoors help a lot-sets dd's internal clock. Exercise throughout the day, but not too late in the day, helps her let out her energy and helps her be able to fall asleep.

Does she do well the next day when she falls asleep at 9/9:30? If she does, then maybe you don't need to struggle changing her sleep time. If not, then consider changing it.

A good book is _Sleepless In America: Is Your Child Misbehaving Or Missing Sleep?_ by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It's interesting, talks about helping children set their internal clocks, helping children relax, the impact of sleep deprivation, that children get more wound-up when overtired and why, etc. You might find it interesting or helpful.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Maybe you could factor in a fun thing you know your daughter would like and add that to the routine each evening. My daughter used to like to watch a movie (30 min or so) and that would be the last thing we would do together in the guest bedroom every night before her bedtime. The first few weeks were rough as she didn't want to listen, but she eventually got used to it and would tell me when it was time to go to bed after a movie would end.







It worked really well for her. She thrived on a routine (as all children do) and it was the thing she wanted to do in order to spend that quality time alone with me after everyone else was in their beds.


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## annarosa (Aug 30, 2004)

thanks for posting this one - i am reading it with interest since my dd has over the last 3.5 years spent on average I am sure 1 - 1.5 hours in preparation for going to sleep with various ways she finds to drag it out/play/refuse etc.
Basically we have good periods and bad periods and we keep to a pretty structured evening (and daytime) because this helps a lot in ironing out some of the sleeping difficulties she seems to have
the consequence I have used with her recently is that i will leave the room after a certain length of time and then dh takes over (or vice versa) - really this only had an effect for a short length of time since now she asks for the other parent when she knows I/dh are getting frustrated !


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I advise accepting that she doesn't need to sleep until 9:00 to 9:30 and leave enough time before that to go through your routine. If she doesn't get her pajamas on after one or two reminders than I would continue with the rest of the routine (even if she is naked) and not make an issue of it. I would also advise not being reluctant to pick her up and carry her into the room to start the routine. Pick a relatively set time and when it is that time to head into the bedroom for pajamas, give her a few minutes of warning to wind down and prepare to go in, and then tell her what time it is and what needs to be done and let her choose to walk back or be carried. I let my dd know that I will choose for her if she doesn't answer, this lets her know that she needs to make a decision. If she is not answering that tells me that choices are to overwhelming to her at the time and she needs me to help her.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I didn't read all the responses, but one thing that's worked really well for me is to bring jammies and underpants into the bathroom. Then I get her out of the tub, help her dry off, put on her pajamas, and get her toothpaste out for her. I usually spend the whole time talking about what we did that day or what we're doing the next day so she doesn't really fixate on the fact that process id marching on. Sometimes I even lock the door, it has one of the old fashioned locks up high so she can't escape.

I would like to have a less hands on approach, because I often feel like a three year old should be able to take more responsibility in these areas. But, it also avoids fights at bedtime, which just makes it harder to go to sleep. My dh is actually usually in charge of bedtime, and he tries a more hands-off approach, somewhat due to laziness/tiredness on his part, IMO, and it takes a long time and usually ends up with them arguing and him making various threats. This drives me nuts, but that's for another thread.


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

this is a great thread. DD is 1 and a few mo ago we really had to get more of a routine. She is a bit strong willed, but mostly just sooooooo curious that she has a hard time setttling down to sleep. She's Never been one of those babies that will sleep wherever and whenever - only the bed or car for her.







:









As for bathtime, we keep the light off in the bathroom, so it's very dimly lit - makes bathtime more relaxing than stimulating. Just an idea....

We also read about 5-10 little books. When she asks to nurse we turn off the light and that's it. She can't decide she needs more books. If she's really having trouble falling asleep we will put her in her swing. She's not allowed to get up to play more.

Well, your kids are older, so prob only the bath suggestion is relevent. Good luck tho


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

What always worked for me (and might be a very useless suggestion if your dd doesn't have a similar need for company or an audience) was to just keep going with the bedtime routine w/o ds. Since I went to bed at the same time, I just took myself to bed and waited for ds to come running. I would bring a toothbrush and a cup of water for him to bed and do his teeth there (no fluoride so no need to rinse). Pjs are optional, but I tend to dry him off and hold out clothes for him to step into right away if pjs seem indicated (company or winter). Reading is dependant on how tired I am, but usually 2 stories.

If I didn't co-sleep, I would probably just go to his bed and read til he joined me. It helps when nothing else interesting is happening in the house (dh doing something boring, nobody else awake, etc)


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

What is it with 3 year olds and delay tactics?







My little guy does some of the same stuff. For him, I have noticed that doing the bath/pj's stuff earlier seems to help, so he can come back in the living room where we are and hang out/play for a bit. I take him up to bed when I notice he is getting really tired...i.e. laying completely down on the floor playing cars, and he nurses for a few minutes and then usually stays in bed. If I take him up too soon, he keeps coming out and delaying things till he is tired. So that is what works for us.


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