# rules my husband found for dating his daughte



## georgiacanuck (Jun 18, 2006)

Rule One:
If you pull into my driveway and honk you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up.

Rule Two:
You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them.

Rule Three:
I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do no, in fact come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my air nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist.

Rule Four:
I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "Barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you.

Rule Five:
It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is: "early."

Rule Six:
I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry.

Rule Seven:
As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process than can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?

Rule Eight:
The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are better.

Rule Nine:
Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and eighteen acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me.

Rule Ten:
Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit the car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.
But, before you even think of dating my daughter, you'll have to fill out the Application for Permission to Date My Daughter.







...he has yet to experience the joys of teen dating ...ive been thru it with my 2 girls but i laughed my butt off when i read this...by the way he changed it a bit..we really do have 18 acres..the rest is pretty well true hes already told her she cant date till shes 30


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

Cute!


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

forwarded it to my DH - our daughter is about to turn 1


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## QuestionGal (Feb 19, 2006)

really cute!
When my cousin first started dating his wife her dad handed him the application to date my daughter... as a joke.... When he wanted their permission to propose he gave it back to them, completely filled out (Awwww)

Does anyone have the actual application?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

:

Off to send this to my BIL.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

I know it's really obnoxious to post this here and I'm really not trying to be offensive. But it really creeps me out when fathers' primary focus when his daughter is dating is on her sex life.

I mean, I know it's supposed to be cute and protective and all, but can you picture a mom writing that about her son? Or even a dad? I mean, so it's ok for boys to get into trouble or get hurt in this manner, but the father is 'the barrier' (more than a little weird) between the girl and her boyfriend?

Sorry, it's not just this, I always feel this way when I hear stuff like this. You know, 'sitting in the driveway with a shotgun when she gets home' stuff. It's like buddy, you are a little _too_ concerned, kwim?








:


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I know it's really obnoxious to post this here and I'm really not trying to be offensive. But it really creeps me out when fathers' primary focus when his daughter is dating is on her sex life.

I mean, I know it's supposed to be cute and protective and all, but can you picture a mom writing that about her son? Or even a dad? I mean, so it's ok for boys to get into trouble or get hurt in this manner, but the father is 'the barrier' (more than a little weird) between the girl and her boyfriend?

Sorry, it's not just this, I always feel this way when I hear stuff like this. You know, 'sitting in the driveway with a shotgun when she gets home' stuff. It's like buddy, you are a little _too_ concerned, kwim?








:


It's not 'her' sexlife we are worried about, it is the horny young hormone driven pimple riddled first time driving boy that is pulling up to our front door's sex life that worries us.

We don't worry about hers, it doesnt exist.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I have seen this before, and I know it's supposed to be a fun light hearted thing, but I think it's dumb. Sorry to be the downer. I just never found it funny, and for the most part if Dh tried this crap or felt this way IRL I would be super ticked.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Yeah, I don't want to jump in and be a sourpuss, but this sort of fatherly display has always made me uncomfortable. It creeps me out in the same way as giving away the bride does, but to an even greater extent. I wouldn't be comfortable with someone acting as some sort of guardian of my sexuality.

It feels uncomfortably sexist to me, and overly negative towards both a daughter and her date/companion/partner-type person.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

:






























It's only a joke. Although, I for one can remember my uncle cleaning his gun while my date was waiting for me (my dad would have, but was out of the country). I guess to each his own.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I get that it's just a joke _here_, but within the humor I think people actually believe this and agree with it. And that's the part I don't get. I understand wanting to protect our kids and help them make good decisions about partners. I do not get treating daughters like some strange piece of property, demanding that any boy she date never touch her, threaten to kill him, etc. Just not funny. I know that I would never want my son to be treated this way by someone's father.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Yeah, I don't want to jump in and be a sourpuss, but this sort of fatherly display has always made me uncomfortable. It creeps me out in the same way as giving away the bride does, but to an even greater extent. I wouldn't be comfortable with someone acting as some sort of guardian of my sexuality.

It feels uncomfortably sexist to me, and overly negative towards both a daughter and her date/companion/partner-type person.


How is it sexist? i plan on putting the fear of god into my son too. Sex = children. I will teach my kids this and tell them that if they do it to use protection. Doesnt mean I wont attempt to guide my children to the right choices in life. Like College, Education, Sports.

Whatever they feel interested in. In highschool they shouldn't rely on another person to make themselves feel whole, and that is what the whole dating scene is in highschool.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

I understand what you are saying, it's just that it's not _just_ a joke. IMHO, it's an overriding, unquestioned way of saying that a girls father has some sort of ownership over her sexuality.

Sorry. Really. I do feel like this _whenever_ I hear something like this being said, not just in response to this post. I just felt like this was the place I could say this in response.

Even the rules themselves seem to be making fun of something that is deeply disturbing to me:

Quote:

when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you
so is he positioning himself right between her legs to fend the other guy off?







:

Quote:

It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this.
Sounds like a _great_ idea

Quote:

Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness.








:

Quote:

Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat.
You mean, like a burka?

Quote:

But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe.
Maybe this sentiment would be better placed if you were referring to your _wife_

And Yoshua, she _does_ have a sex life, just like he does. And she _likes it_ that way.

My apologies to the OP.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

There's a huge difference between teaching children morality and threatening their dates with violence if they don't follow our moral code.

My plan is to teach my children the Torah guidelines about sex and marriage, along with the physical and emotional risks of sexual involvement, and ways to protect themselves. I will be very proud if my children decide to wait until marriage before having sex- but I know that that will be THEIR choices, not mine. I want to empower them to make good decisions and keep the lines of communication open.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I understand what you are saying, it's just that it's not _just_ a joke. IMHO, it's an overriding, unquestioned way of saying that a girls father has some sort of ownership over her sexuality.

Sorry. Really. I do feel like this _whenever_ I hear something like this being said, not just in response to this post. I just felt like this was the place I could say this in response.

Even the rules themselves seem to be making fun of something that is deeply disturbing to me:

so is he positioning himself right between her legs to fend the other guy off?







:

Sounds like a _great_ idea







:

You mean, like a burka?

Maybe this sentiment would be better placed if you were referring to your _wife_

And Yoshua, she _does_ have a sex life, just like he does. And she _likes it_ that way.

My apologies to the OP.










Ok, well to tell you the truth, I will rule the nest when it comes to issues that will possibly negatively affect my offspring. My children can pro-create when they choose to, however the day they get pregnant could (possibly) be the day they decided to pay 2 equal portions to all the bills of the house (3 if he decides to move a girl in with us depending on circumstances).

I won't set my children up for failure. I will give them the advice they need on the subject and they will make their own choices on sex. But if they are grown up enough to pro-create, they are grown up enough to pitch in on all the bills, on top of pulling a good gpa and caring for a child.

Truth of the matter is I am responsible for my child(ren) until they are 18. Period.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

i plan on putting the fear of god into my son too. Sex = children. I will teach my kids this and tell them that if they do it to use protection. Doesnt mean I wont attempt to guide my children to the right choices in life. Like College, Education, Sports.
I don't think this haas anything to do with it. Otherwise you would hear jokes about moms saying that to boys girlfriends (if you picture that, you can really see just how creepy this is) or even dads.

I certainly agree with the above, but if anything it's more about sticking your head in the sand when it comes to a girl making choices about her sex life. I think that's why so many girls end up getting pregnant so early. Control over her sexuality gets passed from her father(??) to her SO, without her ever having been presumably responsible for it.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

I won't set my children up for failure. I will give them the advice they need on the subject and they will make their own choices on sex. But if they are grown up enough to pro-create, they are grown up enough to pitch in on all the bills, on top of pulling a good gpa and caring for a child.
Through behavior like that which is stated above? If anything that just makes a joke to laugh off.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I don't think this haas anything to do with it. Otherwise you would hear jokes about moms saying that to boys girlfriends (if you picture that, you can really see just how creepy this is) or even dads.

I certainly agree with the above, but if anything it's more about sticking your head in the sand when it comes to a girl making choices about her sex life. I think that's why so many girls end up getting pregnant so early. Control over her sexuality gets passed from her father(??) to her SO, without her ever having been presumably responsible for it.

My mom was that way. I had sex for the first time when I was 19. I thank my mother every day for helping me to understand I didn't want a child until I was a 'grown up'.

Thanks mom, you don't creep me out at all.

BTW- my mom? single mom, no real father figure in the house.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Through behavior like that which is stated above? If anything that just makes a joke to laugh off.


i will communicate with my children, I will put the fear of Josh into their dates.

so, yeah, through the activities above. and I will also assume that my children know my sense of humor by the time they are 16 and will know what to take seriously and what not to also.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Your mom told your date that she was the barrier between you and your date and you weren't creeped out?

Quote:

so, yeah, through the activities above. and I will also assume that my children know my sense of humor by the time they are 16 and will know what to take seriously and what not to also
Umm, you just contradicted yourself, are they going to take it seriously or not?

Quote:

I had sex for the first time when I was 19. I thank my mother every day for helping me to understand I didn't want a child until I was a 'grown up'
.

My point is that the above 'jokes' don't help in this aspect. They are making jokes about the dads weird responses to his daughters date. I had no father in the home either and my mom managed to get me to understand just fine about sex and pregnancy without ever having to bring out camoflage or guns.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
How is it sexist?

I admit that it's a little bit hard for me to succinctly answer you, as the sexism is laid on thick in my opinion. The daughter is being spoken of like she is property, and like she is helpless, not to mention nothing but a sexual being in the eyes of the scary interloping teenage boy. The prospective date is to be viewed as worthless, single-minded and interested in nothing but taking advantage of the daughter in question. To me, those are gross ways to paint a person.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
i plan on putting the fear of god into my son too. Sex = children. I will teach my kids this and tell them that if they do it to use protection. Doesnt mean I wont attempt to guide my children to the right choices in life. Like College, Education, Sports.

Whatever they feel interested in. In highschool they shouldn't rely on another person to make themselves feel whole, and that is what the whole dating scene is in highschool.

All of that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see much how it relates to what I find objectionable about daddy's dating rules.









There is a big difference between empowering your children of whatever gender, and acting as some big macho violence-threatening protector because you think your "little girl" is helpless to draw her own boundaries. I find the father-daughter relationship joked about here to be demeaning to the daughter as a person in her own right. I would find it problematic if the father of a daughter of mine thought it was appropriate or cute to treat our daughter and/or a person she chose to spend time with with such a lack of respect.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Your mom told your date that she was the barrier between you and your date and you weren't creeped out?

Umm, you just contradicted yourself, are they going to take it seriously or not?

.

My point is that the above 'jokes' don't help in this aspect. They are making jokes about the dads weird responses to his daughters date. I had no father in the home either and my mom managed to get me to understand just fine about sex and pregnancy without ever having to bring out camoflage or guns.


Actually when I decided to date at 17 my mom told my date a few things about what she thought about teenage sex.

Also when I was hanging out with my girlfriend my mom would usually be fairly close or we would be at their place with their parents fairly close. IE: my mom walked in on us every 8 minutes making sure we had something to drink.

There was no contradiction. My children should know that their dad isn't going to kill their boyfriend or girlfriend, just possibly maim them. See. joke! funny!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Ok, well to tell you the truth, I will rule the nest when it comes to issues that will possibly negatively affect my offspring.

Ahh well that is a big thing to consider in the different way we are viewing this. I don't "rule" the nest. My family rules together if anything.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*

There is a big difference between empowering your children of whatever gender, and acting as some big macho violence-threatening protector because you think your "little girl" is helpless to draw her own boundaries. I find the father-daughter relationship joked about here to be demeaning to the daughter as a person in her own right. I would find it problematic if the father of a daughter of mine thought it was appropriate or cute to treat our daughter and/or a person she chose to spend time with with such a lack of respect.









Yes, yes yes and yes again!


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I admit that it's a little bit hard for me to succinctly answer you, as the sexism is laid on thick in my opinion. The daughter is being spoken of like she is property, and like she is helpless, not to mention nothing but a sexual being in the eyes of the scary interloping teenage boy. The prospective date is to be viewed as worthless, single-minded and interested in nothing but taking advantage of the daughter in question. To me, those are gross ways to paint a person.

All of that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned, and I don't see much how it relates to what I find objectionable about daddy's dating rules.









There is a big difference between empowering your children of whatever gender, and acting as some big macho violence-threatening protector because you think your "little girl" is helpless to draw her own boundaries. I find the father-daughter relationship joked about here to be demeaning to the daughter as a person in her own right. I would find it problematic if the father of a daughter of mine thought it was appropriate or cute to treat our daughter and/or a person she chose to spend time with with such a lack of respect.


If I don't know the date, why would I think they are an upstanding citizen of society? Sure, they have won over my child, but children don't always have the best common sense so to speak.

If the girlfriend/boyfriend decide to make random trips to the house to say hi to us, weather the child is there or not, more points for them, more oppourtunity for me to get to know them.

But some random guy coming up in front of my house honking his horn and expecting me to deliver my daughter when he doesn't bother to say 'hi'.... yeah right.

She is my daughter, and if she doesn't demand respect for herself, I will for her in this regard. Dating ettiquette is not taught enough nowadays. It's just 'go with the flow or you're not cool!'..... No thanks, I will 'try' to teach my kids a lil more self respect than this.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
AMy children should know that their dad isn't going to kill their boyfriend or girlfriend, just possibly maim them. See. joke! funny!

The thing to possibly learn from this discussion is that that just isn't so funny to all of us. Some of us find it offensive, even.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Ahh well that is a big thing to consider in the different way we are viewing this. I don't "rule" the nest. My family rules together if anything.


and I can respect that. And I hope you have the positive outcome you are looking for.

I hope to teach my children self respect in the same way I learned it and hopefully help them avoid the mistakes I made while watching them make a few new ones of their own.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
The thing to possibly learn from this discussion is that that just isn't so funny to all of us. Some of us find it offensive, even.


Not everyone is the same. I don't think you have to find it funny. Just as you shouldn't think 'everyone' should find it offensive.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

i htought it was funny.







: i'm coming at it from having a mother who told my high school boyfriend that if he got me pregnant she'd kill me & then break his legs!!







so, yeah, funny.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
There was no contradiction. My children should know that their dad isn't going to kill their boyfriend or girlfriend, just possibly maim them. See. joke! funny!

I think what we are saying is that joking about maiming your child's partner or date isn't funny. I can say that in a situation of immediate danger I would jump in and defend my child if their boy/girl friend was being violent, but I wouldn't say that just because they did something I don't like. Like hand holding.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

Ignoring all that's going on in the thread,







I'll post the actual application:

http://www.hamiltonbond.com/images/application.gif


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I think what we are saying is that joking about maiming your child's partner or date isn't funny. I can say that in a situation of immediate danger I would jump in and defend my child if their boy/girl friend was being violent, but I wouldn't say that just because they did something I don't like. Like hand holding.










That wasn't the part I was joking bout, I was joking about 'killing'.... totally serious about the maiming, 100%.....


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Past_VNE*
Ignoring all that's going on in the thread,







I'll post the actual application:

http://www.hamiltonbond.com/images/application.gif


awesome! thanks


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Thanks for the link to the application.









I am printing it as we speak!!


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

I hope to teach my children self respect in the same way I learned it and hopefully help them avoid the mistakes I made while watching them make a few new ones of their own.
Like this?

Quote:

We don't worry about hers, it doesnt exist.

Quote:

If the girlfriend/boyfriend decide to make random trips to the house to say hi to us, weather the child is there or not, more points for them, more oppourtunity for me to get to know them
But that is exactly the opposite of what the 'joke' said. It said 'hide your head in the sand and pretend your daughter is not an autonomous sexual person and shoot all males that come anywhere near her'.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Like this?

But that is exactly the opposite of what the 'joke' said. It said 'hide your head in the sand and pretend your daughter is not an autonomous sexual person and shoot all males that come anywhere near her'.


hence.... they should have a sense of humor and get beyond mine. IE: Someone who took everything listed 100% seriously, would not be approved.....


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
But that is exactly the opposite of what the 'joke' said. It said 'hide your head in the sand and pretend your daughter is not an autonomous sexual person and shoot all males that come anywhere near her'.

I am still trying to figure out where it says the daughter in the joke has a sexual relationship.....


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
If I don't know the date, why would I think they are an upstanding citizen of society? Sure, they have won over my child, but children don't always have the best common sense so to speak.

If you don't know the date, then why assume that they are a no goodnik sex fiend who doesn't care about your daughter's feelings? I'm not saying trust them beyond reason or anything, but I'm not into condemning someone in advance simply because they're a teenage male who has shown interest in spending time with my daughter. I think we're coming at this from opposite directions.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
But some random guy coming up in front of my house honking his horn and expecting me to deliver my daughter when he doesn't bother to say 'hi'.... yeah right.

I don't expect my partner or I to be "delivering" a child of ours to a date. I don't desire that level of control in my family. I would hope that we do a good job instilling self-respect and worthiness into our child, and that that will assist them in making good choices as they age.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
She is my daughter, and if she doesn't demand respect for herself, I will for her in this regard. Dating ettiquette is not taught enough nowadays. It's just 'go with the flow or you're not cool!'..... No thanks, I will 'try' to teach my kids a lil more self respect than this.

I too am going to do my best teach my child(ren) that they deserve respect, that they can make boundaries for themselves, that they are not to be taken advantage of. Maybe I have more faith in the impact of that kind of upbringing than you might, and that's where the disconnect is happening?







:


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Akk! 'If you don't have one male and one female parent please explain'??

Umm ok, my 'dad' was a complete waste of space and told my mom that he loved her and married her and said he wanted kids. Then when she had me, he changed his mind and ran off with a eighteen yo girl.

'a woman's place is in the _____?' !!!!

Um, whereever she wants it to be??


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am still trying to figure out where it says the daughter in the joke has a sexual relationship.....


evidently tree equates a 'date' to 'sex'

one of the things I hope to teach my children are mutually exclusive 98% of the time.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Akk! 'If you don't have one male and one female parent please explain'??

Umm ok, my 'dad' was a complete waste of space and told my mom that he loved her and married her and said he wanted kids. Then when she had me, he changed his mind and ran off with a eighteen yo girl.

'a woman's place is in the _____?' !!!!

Um, whereever she wants it to be??


those would both be acceptable answers, although I would follow up on the 'waiste of space' and enquire as to where his 'father figure' and 'how to treat a lady' idealogies came from.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

WEll, if your not going to equate date to sex, then why are you stapling his pants to his body and telling him not to touch her? Your acting like SHE can't decide whether she wants him to touch her.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
evidently tree equates a 'date' to 'sex'

one of the things I hope to teach my children are mutually exclusive 98% of the time.

Thanks for the clarification Yoshua. I for one dated and never had sex, so I know it is possible.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
But that is exactly the opposite of what the 'joke' said. It said 'hide your head in the sand and pretend your daughter is not an autonomous sexual person and shoot all males that come anywhere near her'.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am still trying to figure out where it says the daughter in the joke has a sexual relationship.....

The daughter in the joke doesn't have to be in a sexual relationship to possess her own sexuality and the control of that sexuality...


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
If you don't know the date, then why assume that they are a no goodnik sex fiend who doesn't care about your daughter's feelings? I'm not saying trust them beyond reason or anything, but I'm not into condemning someone in advance simply because they're a teenage male who has shown interest in spending time with my daughter. I think we're coming at this from opposite directions.

I was a teen age boy. I saw my friends. I saw my brother. I was one of the few who managed to make it out of high school without having sex. I know they exist, but they are few and far between. I remember what it is like to be a teenager.

If the first time I meet the 'fine young man' is 8:00 when the movie starts at 8:10..... not brownie points.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I don't expect my partner or I to be "delivering" a child of ours to a date. I don't desire that level of control in my family. I would hope that we do a good job instilling self-respect and worthiness into our child, and that that will assist them in making good choices as they age.

Awesome, glad that works for ya, congratulations!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I too am going to do my best teach my child(ren) that they deserve respect, that they can make boundaries for themselves, that they are not to be taken advantage of. Maybe I have more faith in the impact of that kind of upbringing than you might, and that's where the disconnect is happening?







:

'Taken Advantage Of' is a term that should be removed. Either they had sex willingly, or they did not. If not, the next call is to the police. I will also teach my daughter this.

This is my upbringing. I have plenty of faith in it. You are the one that seems to have a lack of faith in my beliefs. That seems to be your problem. Not mine.

Have a nice day!


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

'lady' is a euphemism. ANd how does one treat a 'lady'? How about everyone is just human beings.

And what if he doesn't _have_ a church


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
WEll, if your not going to equate date to sex, then why are you stapling his pants to his body and telling him not to touch her? Your acting like SHE can't decide whether she wants him to touch her.


See, you just don't have the sense of humor for this kind of joke. You should 'try' to pick up on the subtelties... or lack there of in my humor.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
WEll, if your not going to equate date to sex, then why are you stapling his pants to his body and telling him not to touch her? Your acting like SHE can't decide whether she wants him to touch her.

I personally see this as a parent not wanting to the kid's underwear (which I agree with completely) and as for the not touching......well I see nothing wrong with making it quite clear my daughter should be treated with respect and not touched without her permission.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
'lady' is a euphemism. ANd how does one treat a 'lady'? How about everyone is just human beings.

And what if he doesn't _have_ a church


Then chances are there is no pastor to interview.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
And Yoshua, she _does_ have a sex life, just like he does. And she _likes it_ that way.

My apologies to the OP.









This is where I got the daughter having a sex life confusion from. I thought treereach got it from somewhere in the joke.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
WEll, if your not going to equate date to sex, then why are you stapling his pants to his body and telling him not to touch her? Your acting like SHE can't decide whether she wants him to touch her.

Yes! Where is this young woman's voice in all of this? Does she not have a say in who is or is not touching her?


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

It's not HER permission though, is it? It's his. ANd I was referring to the pants because part of the 'joke' was about keeping his pants on.

Yeah, it goes back and forth between being a joke and being a serious conversation about boundaries and sex. Sorry, I don't think this 'joke' has anything to do with teaching your 'ladies' boundaries.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Yes! Where is this young woman's voice in all of this? Does she not have a say in who is or is not touching her?


wow, it kinda creeps me out that so many people want their daughters touched by their dates.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
It's not HER permission though, is it? It's his. ANd I was referring to the pants because part of the 'joke' was about keeping his pants on.

Yeah, it goes back and forth between being a joke and being a serious conversation about boundaries and sex. Sorry, I don't think this 'joke' has anything to do with teaching your 'ladies' boundaries.


You're right. It doesnt. Nor should it.

I would hope the father had already taken care of that in the first 15 years of life.

This 'joke' teaches the potential suitor about what is expected.

Open communication is what I am all about, Yesirreee open communication while I am holding my shotgun and smiling wide.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

Then chances are there is no pastor to interview
Well, then what's the point of the application then if this response is acceptable.
It seems to me just like one big requirement of what people 'should' be like. Funny? Your right we don't have the same sense of humor.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
I was a teen age boy. I saw my friends. I saw my brother. I was one of the few who managed to make it out of high school without having sex. I know they exist, but they are few and far between. I remember what it is like to be a teenager.

And there is a prime example of what I would call sexism. It is absolutely unfair to judge the intent of every teenage boy based off of the behavior of those that you knew.

Also, just how do the actions of these theoretical daughters hinge so strongly on what the majority teenage boys are assumed to be like? Every male between the age of 13-19 could be _scientifically proven_ to be interested in sex to the detriment of everything else, and I still wouldn't expect it to rule what my daughter does.

Why are the daughters being viewed as such usable beings here? Unless, god forbid, force or abusive coercion enters into the equation, our daughters can control of what they do, and are capable of making the choices they see as best. The better we as parents equip them to make good choices, the better off they will be. Standing guard and controlling things takes much needed power away, and that I find that prospect very scary.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

wow, it kinda creeps me out that so many people want *their daughters touched by their dates.*
What does what we want have to do with it? I don't think I am the person to be telling my daugther or son how or when they should be touched. It doesn't _have_to be sexual you know, this joke just makes it seem like everything is.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Well, then what's the point of the application then if this response is acceptable.
It seems to me just like one big requirement of what people 'should' be like. Funny? Your right we don't have the same sense of humor.


The 'acceptable' response is up to the father who is handing out the application.

If the father is a church going man, I'd assume 'i don't go to church' to nullify your review for acceptance of the position of 'suitor to my daughter'.

Sorry, not all applicants get approved.

As for 'should' be like.

Everyone has their own opinions. You believe I have a poor sense of humor. You judged me from the onset of your posts in the thread. I failed YOUR exam.

the point? I don't care if I failed your exam or not.

Have a nice day


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
What does what we want have to do with it? I don't think I am the person to be telling my daugther or son how or when they should be touched. It doesn't _have_to be sexual you know, this joke just makes it seem like everything is.


Only to you. I see many sides to this joke.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Yes! Where is this young woman's voice in all of this? Does she not have a say in who is or is not touching her?

Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
wow, it kinda creeps me out that so many people want their daughters touched by their dates.
Where is this assumption coming from? The fact that some are expressing the idea that it's the daughter's choice who touches her, not her father's?







:


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
And there is a prime example of what I would call sexism. It is absolutely unfair to judge the intent of every teenage boy based off of the behavior of those that you knew.

Also, just how do the actions of these theoretical daughters hinge so strongly on what the majority teenage boys are assumed to be like? Every male between the age of 13-19 could be _scientifically proven_ to be interested in sex to the detriment of everything else, and I still wouldn't expect it to rule what my daughter does.

Why are the daughters being viewed as such usable beings here? Unless, god forbid, force or abusive coercion enters into the equation, our daughters can control of what they do, and are capable of making the choices they see as best. The better we as parents equip them to make good choices, the better off they will be. Standing guard and controlling things takes much needed power away, and that I find that prospect very scary.


LoL. I judge teenage girls that would date my son in the same way. Please look up sexism, i favor no sex in this argument, pun intended.

The boy in question will either be liked or disliked. She will still date whoever she wants, but I would hope that she was smart enough to choose an 'upstanding' young man. If not, that is her decision.

And if he hurts my daughter.... he can't claim he wasn't 'warned'.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
And there is a prime example of what I would call sexism. It is absolutely unfair to judge the intent of every teenage boy based off of the behavior of those that you knew.

Also, just how do the actions of these theoretical daughters hinge so strongly on what the majority teenage boys are assumed to be like? Every male between the age of 13-19 could be _scientifically proven_ to be interested in sex to the detriment of everything else, and I still wouldn't expect it to rule what my daughter does.

Why are the daughters being viewed as such usable beings here? Unless, god forbid, force or abusive coercion enters into the equation, our daughters can control of what they do, and are capable of making the choices they see as best. The better we as parents equip them to make good choices, the better off they will be. Standing guard and controlling things takes much needed power away, and that I find that prospect very scary.

This attitude that she's talking about doesn't rule out that it might be HER that wants the sexuality to enter in, not him. I do feel like these stereotypes are ignoring plenty of alternative situations that could arise. I mean, it's great that your fending off all the rabid boy-wolves out there, but I think this is kind of silly and ignoring the fact that often, girls are *just as interested in sex as boys are.*


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Where is this assumption coming from? The fact that some are expressing the idea that it's the daughter's choice who touches her, not her father's?







:


The fact that someone would stick up for a boy who honks at the drive way for the daughter to come out.... that creeps me out.

Someone who would stand up for a boy who shows (in the fathers opinion) no respect for his daughter and family.... that creeps me out.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
This attitude that she's talking about doesn't rule out that it might be HER that wants the sexuality to enter in, not him. I do feel like these stereotypes are ignoring plenty of alternative situations that could arise. I mean, it's great that your fending off all the rabid boy-wolves out there, but I think this is kind of silly and ignoring the fact that often, girls are *just as interested in sex as boys are.*


read post 61. i am an equal oppourtunist. i hold the same thought process for 'young ladies' as i do for 'young men'.

Takes 2 to tango, my friends didnt have sex on their own.... I did, but they didnt.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
wow, it kinda creeps me out that so many people want their daughters touched by their dates.

 I never said (did anyone?) that I wanted my daughter (or son for that matter) to be touched by their date. What I am talking about is my child being in control of what happens to her. At 16 or 17 I want my teen to know her own comfort zones and boundaries as opposed to me or her father making all those decisions for her.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Where is this assumption coming from? The fact that some are expressing the idea that it's the daughter's choice who touches her, not her father's?







:

For the record I was agreeing with you there! (I think lol)







: Just to be clear... I know we are getting confusing.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I never said (did anyone?) that I wanted my daughter (or son for that matter) to be touched by their date. What I am talking about is my child being in control of what happens to her. At 16 or 17 I want my teen to know her own comfort zones and boundaries as opposed to me or her father making all those decisions for her.


At 16 or 17 it doesn't matter what the parents think. the children will make their own decisions.

however if someone pulls into my drive way and honks expecting my daughter to come out to them, they are mistaken. That is disrespectful to my daughter, and our house hold.

I wouldn't require them to come in, but to at least come to the door where my chair is positioned 'by accident' to be viewed while I am polishing my shotgun/revolver/sharpening my arrows. That will be expected, also to be close enough to hear me bark out

'WHAT TIME WILL YOU BE HOME?'

for her to answer

and for me to say 'insert boys name here* ONE HOUR EARLIER THAN THAT' and he had better listen. if he wants round 2

Joys of fatherhood.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

The honking part is the only part that made any sense at all, the rest was just drivel of a man trying to look tough and ignoring the fact that this is the way human sexuality works, and his time would be better spent teaching his daughter how to defend herself if she wants to and proving to her _though his actions_ that women don't need to be, say, look like, and do everything that a man wants.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
it's great that your fending off all the rabid boy-wolves out there, but I think this is kind of silly and ignoring the fact that often, girls are *just as interested in sex as boys are.*









That doesn't mean I want or hope my daughter goes out and has sex at 16. It just means that I realize sex is not ONLY enjoyed or wanted by teenage boys.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
For the record I was agreeing with you there! (I think lol)







: Just to be clear... I know we are getting confusing.

We're definitely on the same page! I was asking Yoshua about his assumption.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

2: touching my daughter in front of me.... the first time you meet if your hands touch anywhere on my daughter other than her hands, you are not showing proper respect (only in my opinion) of how precious she is to me.

3: I don't want to see your underwear. Wear clothes that fit and we have no issue here.

4: It is a joke intended to inform. I do not approve of sex, and I will kill you if you forget to use a condom. My daughter has probably already been given condoms BY ME, but he does not need to know about this, and they are not there to facilitate or be thought of as 'dad gave me permission'

5: I don't know you. I don't want you to 'impress me' be yourself and have my daughter back at an appropriate time. That is brownie points.

6: I full heartedly agree with this statement. If my daughter and you both agree you have an open relationship to date whoever you want, fine. Do not lie to my daughter so she will date you, and then date her best friend behind her back. You will not like what happens.

7: My daughter is precious, I do not care how long it takes her to get ready, you should also deem her so. Wait for her in anticipation, not boredom.

8: This is a joke, but lays down the thoughts of what is appropriate. The fact that some of you believe fathers do not want their daughters to be happy.... to be honest.... is a bit frightening.

9: True statement. Don't be an idiot son, and I won't have to go to jail.

10: Don't be late.

those translations help at all?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
At 16 or 17 it doesn't matter what the parents think. the children will make their own decisions.

Well, my oldest is about to turn 15 and he still cares what I think. He does make his own decisions, and he looks to me for opinions and guidance. Not orders or threats about what time he better be home.

Quote:

however if someone pulls into my drive way and honks expecting my daughter to come out to them, they are mistaken. That is disrespectful to my daughter, and our house hold.
 What if your daughter doesn't find it disrespectful? Now I do want and hope to meet my childrens' friends and dates. I enjoy getting to know them (as opposed to actually requesting that they never speak to me.) But if my daughter has known someone for a long time and they come to pick her up and they honk...how is that disrespectful? Hell my husband came home early recently to get me to go run errands. He pulled into the driveway and honked and we left. No big deal.

Quote:

I wouldn't require them to come in, but to at least come to the door where my chair is positioned 'by accident' to be viewed while I am polishing my shotgun/revolver/sharpening my arrows. That will be expected, also to be close enough to hear me bark out

'WHAT TIME WILL YOU BE HOME?' for her to answer

and for me to say 'insert boys name here* ONE HOUR EARLIER THAN THAT' and he had better listen. if he wants round 2
 Well it wouldn't be "an accident" that you are cleaning a gun in his view. That is just false, clearly. It would be an intentional attempt to scare and intimidate him. How is that respectful of your daughter or the young man? Also, you would ask your daughter when she will be back only to completely dismiss it and then put the boy (that you don't trust?) in charge of when to be home? Why would you dismiss your daughters voice/answer and defer to this boy you already do not trust? Where is the respect in this?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Well, my oldest is about to turn 15 and he still cares what I think. He does make his own decisions, and he looks to me for opinions and guidance. Not orders or threats about what time he better be home.

What if your daughter doesn't find it disrespectful? Now I do want and hope to meet my childrens' friends and dates. I enjoy getting to know them (as opposed to actually requesting that they never speak to me.) But if my daughter has known someone for a long time and they come to pick her up and they honk...how is that disrespectful? Hell my husband came home early recently to get me to go run errands. He pulled into the driveway and honked and we left. No big deal.

Well it wouldn't be "an accident" that you are cleaning a gun in his view. That is just false, clearly. It would be an intentional attempt to scare and intimidate him. How is that respectful of your daughter or the young man? Also, you would ask your daughter when she will be back only to completely dismiss it and then put the boy (that you don't trust?) in charge of when to be home? Why would you dismiss your daughters voice/answer and defer to this boy you already do not trust? Where is the respect in this?


my daughter will know that i find it disrespectful to me. therefore it will be a non issue.

as for respectful of the young man? People earn respect. he has not accomplished this on the first date.

as for deferring to the boy. he is driving. he has control of when and where my daughter goes anywhere that night.

If she was driving, it would be her i talked to.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

UnschoolnMaHell my husband came home early recently to get me to go run errands. He pulled into the driveway and honked and we left. No big deal. [/COLOR said:


> Now see I found it highly offensive if anyone honks and expects me to come running. I would find it equally offensive if someone did this to one of my children (date or otherwise). I don't even respond to honks outside my door.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Houdini said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMaHell my husband came home early recently to get me to go run errands. He pulled into the driveway and honked and we left. No big deal. [/COLOR*
> ...


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

2







t didn't mention 'hands' sorry, just creepy and I think SHE'LL tell him when to stop touching her

3







, and blue jeans are for harlots and whats up with that grease in your hair? And no skirts above the ankles either! Can anyone say the next generation?

4:ummm, sorry, the joke wasnt about condoms it was saying that HE was the barrier between her and the date. C-R-E-E-P-Y

5







, I don't want to talk to you or know what kind of person my daughter will be around. If I can be threatening enough, you'll just go away, right?

6:Nevermind what you two decide to do, I'm going to make the rules as to how your relationship will proceed. Because??

7:Fine, whatever. But nevermind teaching your daughter about respecting other people, and why is she putting on all that make-up anyways? Does she not think she looks good by herself?

8:Chainsaws are ok, but romantic movies aren't ?? have you seen one of these mivies lately?? Where a half-dressed girl is being ripped apart by some maniac? Can anyone say repressed desires here?

ok, I'll stop here. There is another way of looking at this you know.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
LoL. I judge teenage girls that would date my son in the same way. Please look up sexism, i favor no sex in this argument, pun intended.

The fact that you would judge girls does not negate the sexism I'm seeing here. In fact, it doubles it!

Varied definitions of sexism:

Quote:

Definitions of Sexism on the Web:

*Prejudice or discrimination based on gender. Like other "isms," sexism can be personal, as when someone tells a joke or makes a remark that demeans a woman because of his or her gender, or institutional, as when women are paid less than men doing the same work.
http://www.culturalpartnerships.org/...s/glossary.asp

*defines the ideology of male supremacy, of male superiority and of beliefs that support and sustain it. Sexism and patriarchy mutually reinforce one another.
http://www.ruralwomyn.net/define.html

*Sex-based discrimination against a person. The concept was coined along the lines of concepts of racism (race-based discrimination) and ageism (violation of the rights of the elderly). It was put into circulation by American feminist, political scientist Kirsten Amundsen in her book "Silent majority. Women and American democracy" (1971).
http:// www.undp.am/publications/gender/wsr/Z+++/Glossary.htm

*Bias against a certain gender.
www.coolnurse.com/sex_glossary/glossary_s.htm

*Usually experienced by a woman as male supremacy, male privilege, denial, and silencing. Oppression based on gender.
www.letswrap.com/LetsWRAP/Spring97/isms.htm

*Treating people differently because of their gender.
re-xs.ucsm.ac.uk/cupboard/exam/examsupp/dloads/cp/cp35.htm

*discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of the opposite sex
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

*Sexism is discrimination against people based on their sex rather than their individual merits.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
The fact that someone would stick up for a boy who honks at the drive way for the daughter to come out.... that creeps me out.

Someone who would stand up for a boy who shows (in the fathers opinion) no respect for his daughter and family.... that creeps me out.

Where are you seeing this?

Quote:

however if someone pulls into my drive way and honks expecting my daughter to come out to them, they are mistaken.
Because your daughter, of her own choice will ask for more consideration than that? Or because you plan to step in and take control of the situation?

Quote:

I wouldn't require them to come in, but to at least come to the door where my chair is positioned 'by accident' to be viewed while I am polishing my shotgun/revolver/sharpening my arrows. That will be expected, also to be close enough to hear me bark out
'WHAT TIME WILL YOU BE HOME?'
for her to answer
and for me to say 'insert boys name here* ONE HOUR EARLIER THAN THAT' and he had better listen. if he wants round 2
I don't see the benefit in being rude, threatening and hostilely distrustful from day one. It seems like a hotline to resentment and rebellion.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Yoshua

If one of my boys ever dates one of your daughters feel free to clean your gun 'accidently' in their view. Same goes for if my daughter ever dates a son of yours.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
2







t didn't mention 'hands' sorry, just creepy and I think SHE'LL tell him when to stop touching her

3







, and blue jeans are for harlots and whats up with that grease in your hair? And no skirts above the ankles either! Can anyone say the next generation?

4:ummm, sorry, the joke wasnt about condoms it was saying that HE was the barrier between her and the date. C-R-E-E-P-Y

5







, I don't want to talk to you or know what kind of person my daughter will be around. If I can be threatening enough, you'll just go away, right?

6:Nevermind what you two decide to do, I'm going to make the rules as to how your relationship will proceed. Because??

7:Fine, whatever. But nevermind teaching your daughter about respecting other people, and why is she putting on all that make-up anyways? Does she not think she looks good by herself?

8:Chainsaws are ok, but romantic movies aren't ?? have you seen one of these mivies lately?? Where a half-dressed girl is being ripped apart by some maniac? Can anyone say repressed desires here?

ok, I'll stop here. There is another way of looking at this you know.


as i said. you don't have the sense of humor to translate this. walk away if it creeps you out. the people who 'got' the joke found it funny just fine.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

as for respectful of the young man? People earn respect. he has not accomplished this on the first date.
So he 'owes' you respect but you don't have to respect him because it's the first time your meeting him? How about having respect for everyone?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Yoshua

If one of my boys ever date one of your daughters feel free to clean your gun 'accidently' in their view. Same goes for if my daughter ever dates a son of yours.


I intend to, and I would expect the same if Jake came by to pick up one of your fine young ladies.

Just know that I would be polishing my gun on his way OUT the door saying 'if you hurt that girl, when her dad is done, it's my turn'

but, potato patahto.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Takes 2 to tango, my friends didnt have sex on their own.... I did, but they didnt.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
The fact that you would judge girls does not negate the sexism I'm seeing here. In fact, it doubles it!

Varied definitions of sexism:

Where are you seeing this?

Because your daughter, of her own choice will ask for more consideration than that? Or because you plan to step in and take control of the situation?

I don't see the benefit in being rude, threatening and hostilely distrustful from day one. It seems like a hotline to resentment and rebellion.


sex·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skszm)
n.
Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

Try the dictionary, it works better.

I don't discriminate based on sex or social roles. I treat them equally.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

as i said. you don't have the sense of humor to translate this. walk away if it creeps you out. the people who 'got' the joke found it funny just fine.
I didn't need to remember? You 'translated' it for me. And your translation wasn't funny either, so quit trying to use my lack of a sense of humor against me.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
So he 'owes' you respect but you don't have to respect him because it's the first time your meeting him? How about having respect for everyone?


darn straight. He is being blessed with an oppourtunity to go on a date with the most important woman in the world.

And he gets that oppourtunity through my good graces.

He better respect me.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

2: touching my daughter in front of me.... the first time you meet if your hands touch anywhere on my daughter other than her hands, you are not showing proper respect (only in my opinion) of how precious she is to me.
Obviously it wouldn't be appropriate or comfortable for them to start making out or having sex right there. But I fail to see how him putting his hand on her back, shoulder, or leg is disrespectful. Do those body parts mean something I am unaware of or?

3: I don't want to see your underwear. Wear clothes that fit and we have no issue here. You do not get to decide how someone else dresses. Especially since this is someone else's kid. While I may agree that the "baggy pants underwear out" style is not my deal it's not my place to demand that someone else not wear it.

4: It is a joke intended to inform. I do not approve of sex, and I will kill you if you forget to use a condom. My daughter has probably already been given condoms BY ME, but he does not need to know about this, and they are not there to facilitate or be thought of as 'dad gave me permission'
It cannot be both a joke and literal. Either you will actually kill this young man, as in end his life and take him away from his family, or you will not. So you don't approve of sex but you understand that your daughter may have it, and you gave her condoms. (I would too btw) So does that mean you will kill him IF they have sex AND use condoms (because you dont approve of sex) and you will also KILL him if they don't use condoms?









5: I don't know you. I don't want you to 'impress me' be yourself and have my daughter back at an appropriate time. That is brownie points. IMO my daughter needs to enforce that she be back at the appropriate time, whatever we have all decided that will be. It's not "the man's job" to get the little lady home on time.

6: If my daughter and you both agree you have an open relationship to date whoever you want, fine. Do not lie to my daughter so she will date you, and then date her best friend behind her back. You will not like what happens.
I agree that him lying and cheating would be terrible, and I would not respect him for doing so. The threat of "You will not like what happens" is bizarre. What does that even mean? The only thing that would/should happen (IMO) is that my daughter would stop dating him. What are you going to do...kill him again?

8: This is a joke, but lays down the thoughts of what is appropriate. The fact that some of you believe fathers do not want their daughters to be happy.... to be honest.... is a bit frightening.
To be honest, the fact that some people (fathers?) feel it is appropriate to threaten their kids' dates with violence and to dismiss their daughter's thoughts wierds me out too.









So is this your approach for handling your son dating too? Will you be threatening the girl that comes to the house with a shotgun?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I didn't need to remember? You 'translated' it for me. And your translation wasn't funny either, so quit trying to use my lack of a sense of humor against me.


I didnt say 'lack' of sense of humor.

You do not have the sense of humor that would find this funny.

Your humor is found elsewhere. i do not know what you find funny, but I do not doubt the existance that you do find things humorous.

this is a joke that some people get, and some dont.

You don't. I do not judge you for it. I just don't understand why you would judge me for it.

I'm not a very judgmental kind of guy when it comes to peoples thought processes. but when it comes to what is best for my children i make judgement calls every day.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

That's not what i meant. You switch tactics when trying to justify this by going back and forth between it being 'funny' and it being real. and you are using it to not address the fact that this concept is scary.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
2: touching my daughter in front of me.... the first time you meet if your hands touch anywhere on my daughter other than her hands, you are not showing proper respect (only in my opinion) of how precious she is to me.
Obviously it wouldn't be appropriate or comfortable for them to start making out or having sex right there. But I fail to see how him putting his hand on her back, shoulder, or leg is disrespectful. Do those body parts mean something I am unaware of or?

To a boy. yes. It means one step closer. I am a boy. I know.

3: I don't want to see your underwear. Wear clothes that fit and we have no issue here. You do not get to decide how someone else dresses. Especially since this is someone else's kid. While I may agree that the "baggy pants underwear out" style is not my deal it's not my place to demand that someone else not wear it.

You are right, i do not decide how someone dresses. But I do decide if you pick my daughter up at all.

4: It is a joke intended to inform. I do not approve of sex, and I will kill you if you forget to use a condom. My daughter has probably already been given condoms BY ME, but he does not need to know about this, and they are not there to facilitate or be thought of as 'dad gave me permission'
It cannot be both a joke and literal. Either you will actually kill this young man, as in end his life and take him away from his family, or you will not. So you don't approve of sex but you understand that your daughter may have it, and you gave her condoms. (I would too btw) So does that mean you will kill him IF they have sex AND use condoms (because you dont approve of sex) and you will also KILL him if they don't use condoms?









Yes it can. It is a joke if he listens.

5: I don't know you. I don't want you to 'impress me' be yourself and have my daughter back at an appropriate time. That is brownie points. IMO my daughter needs to enforce that she be back at the appropriate time, whatever we have all decided that will be. It's not "the man's job" to get the little lady home on time.

It is the drivers job. If she is driving then you are correct. If he is driving then you stand corrected.









6: If my daughter and you both agree you have an open relationship to date whoever you want, fine. Do not lie to my daughter so she will date you, and then date her best friend behind her back. You will not like what happens.
I agree that him lying and cheating would be terrible, and I would not respect him for doing so. The threat of "You will not like what happens" is bizarre. What does that even mean? The only thing that would/should happen (IMO) is that my daughter would stop dating him. What are you going to do...kill him again?

Bizarre to you.







and yes.

8: This is a joke, but lays down the thoughts of what is appropriate. The fact that some of you believe fathers do not want their daughters to be happy.... to be honest.... is a bit frightening.
To be honest, the fact that some people (fathers?) feel it is appropriate to threaten their kids' dates with violence and to dismiss their daughter's thoughts wierds me out too.









I am glad for you









So is this your approach for handling your son dating too? Will you be threatening the girl that comes to the house with a shotgun?


I won't threaten anyone. His dates won't be coming to pick him up, i will have taught him to treat this girl with respect as well as her family. He will probably be following my lead on what respect for these people are 'at least when he goes to pick them up'. He will get threats from me if he mistreats a girl and god forbid I ever find out he cheats on anyone. I believe in natural consequences. Natural consequence to cheating on someone when you could have just said 'things aren't working out' are this.

No car
No video games
No allowance
No trust.

trust is an earned thing between parents and offspring too. When it is broken, it must be built back up. A humans heart is a precious thing and should be treated that way. These are beliefs I 'hope' to instill in my sons and daughters. I hope I do not fail.

My methods may not be the same as yours, but my intentions are the best.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
That's not what i meant. You switch tactics when trying to justify this by going back and forth between it being 'funny' and it being real. and you are using it to not address the fact that this concept is scary.


oh, problem solved!

This concept isn't scary to me. and it isn't scary to EVERYONE.

Don't let your son date girls with dads like this! problem solved!


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Well said Yoshua


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
sex·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skszm)
n.
Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

Try the dictionary, it works better.

I don't discriminate based on sex or social roles. I treat them equally.

It seems like your dissatisfaction with my supplied definitions of sexism is being used as an escape hatch enabling you to dismiss the rest of my post. If you're interested in continuing this debate with integrity, maybe we can get back on track?

Quote:

I was a teen age boy. I saw my friends. I saw my brother. I was one of the few who managed to make it out of high school without having sex. I know they exist, but they are few and far between. I remember what it is like to be a teenager.
You said this in response to my inquiry about condemning prospective dates from the outset. How is that _anything_ but discrimination based on sex and social roles?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
It seems like your dissatisfaction with my supplied definitions of sexism is being used as an escape hatch enabling you to dismiss the rest of my post. If you're interested in continuing this debate with integrity, maybe we can get back on track?

You said this in response to my inquiry about condemning prospective dates from the outset. How is that _anything_ but discrimination based on sex and social roles?


If you bothered to follow up my posts you would see I also said it took 2 to tango. They didnt have sex alone. I did.

you have no point here.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Yes it can. It is a joke if he listens.

And he doesn't? Then you will _really_ kill him?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
And he doesn't? Then you will _really_ kill him?


Depends on my mood and how my daughter reacts. just being candid.


----------



## mommaof3boz (Feb 15, 2006)

I am appalled with this thread. Someone posted something she thought was funny. A couple of other people thought it funny. Not everything has to turn into World War Three on MDC. Not everything is a political statement. Not everything is a debate. There is something to be said for "if you don't have something nice/decent to say to a person don't say anything". She was laughing about something her husband thought funny and frankly many of you are being downright rude. I think that goes against every rule here on MDC. IRL you can say whatever you want to someone but you have to say it looking at their face and knowing you've hurt their feelings. Online its much easier to blast someone forgetting they are a human being behind their keyboard. Being with open minded people are why many come to MDC, its a shame when this behavior goes on. No wonder women can't get along.


----------



## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

I think it is possible to see both the humor and the sexism inherent in stuff like this. Dads are protective of their daughters, sometimes to the point of caricature and making fools of themselves. The underlying message of the self-deprecating caricature is that their daughter is valued and loved and treasured.

That we don't often see these sorts of "rules for dating my son" is a sign of the lingering double standards about boys' and girls' sexuality. Instead, we get "rules for marrying my son" and mother-in-law jokes - jokes with little grains of truth to them, in many people's experience, that show that mothers can be just as controlling and over-protective of their sons, even though it is not generally manifested with respect to his sexuality, but more with respect to "taking care" of him.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB*
I think it is possible to see both the humor and the sexism inherent in stuff like this. Dads are protective of their daughters, sometimes to the point of caricature and making fools of themselves. The underlying message of the self-deprecating caricature is that their daughter is valued and loved and treasured.

That we don't often see these sorts of "rules for dating my son" is a sign of the lingering double standards about boys' and girls' sexuality. Instead, we get "rules for marrying my son" and mother-in-law jokes - jokes with little grains of truth to them, in many people's experience, that show that mothers can be just as controlling and over-protective of their sons, even though it is not generally manifested with respect to his sexuality, but more with respect to "taking care" of him.


/true


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
*I won't threaten anyone.* His dates won't be coming to pick him up, i will have taught him to treat this girl with respect as well as her family. He will probably be following my lead on what respect for these people are 'at least when he goes to pick them up'. *He will get threats from me if he mistreats a girl and god forbid I ever find out he cheats on anyone*. I believe in natural consequences. Natural consequence to cheating on someone when you could have just said 'things aren't working out' are this.

No car
No video games
No allowance
No trust.

trust is an earned thing between parents and offspring too. When it is broken, it must be built back up. A humans heart is a precious thing and should be treated that way. These are beliefs I 'hope' to instill in my sons and daughters. I hope I do not fail.

My methods may not be the same as yours, but my intentions are the best.

Your apparent contradictions are confusing. Am I somehow misinterpreting the parts I bolded?

Your ideas about natural consequences are new to me. Have you consulted the dictionary on what exactly is meant by the term "natural consequences"?


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

yes, secret, here's another one:

Quote:

To a boy. yes. It means one step closer. I am a boy. I know.
What does that _mean_? You are a boy, so you you know that boys are all out to have sex with girls and only sex, regardless of what the girl wants or whether its a good idea or if the girl wants it more than him or if she has herpes or if she's a space alien? And this _isn't_ sexist? _Come on_ Sexual indiscrimination in men is just a front for the fact that women can't take it from them. Men aren't _really_ indiscriminate, just look at prison environment.

ANd how do I know before hand that my son is approaching a girl with a father like you. Granted Houdini seems to know you and finds you waving a gun (yes, I know, 'a joke') in her sons face acceptable, but i find that prospect terrifying, whether my son wants to have sex with your daughter or not.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Your apparent contradictions are confusing. Am I somehow misinterpreting the parts I bolded?

Your ideas about natural consequences are new to me. Have you consulted the dictionary on what exactly is meant by the term "natural consequences"?










Trust me, those consequences naturally came to my mind.

as for 'contradictions' if you can't see the heart of a paragraph and what is intended by it,sorry, stop reading what I write.








:


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
If you bothered to follow up my posts you would see I also said it took 2 to tango. They didnt have sex alone. I did.

you have no point here.

You don't need to retreat into rudeness or assumptions. I have read every word on this thread. The fact remains that you are pre-judging a whole set of people based on their gender.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I actually don't know Yoshua anymore than I know you. I just identify with his sense of humor and agree with him.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
yes, secret, here's another one:

What does that _mean_? You are a boy, so you you know that boys are all out to have sex with girls and only sex, regardless of what the girl wants or whether its a good idea or if the girl wants it more than him or if she has herpes or if she's a space alien? And this _isn't_ sexist? _Come on_ Sexual indiscrimination in men is just a front for the fact that women can't take it from them. Men aren't _really_ indiscriminate, just look at prison environment.

ANd how do I know before hand that my son is approaching a girl with a father like you. Granted Houdini seems to know you and finds you waving a gun (yes, I know, 'a joke') in her sons face acceptable, but i find that prospect terrifying, whether my son wants to have sex with your daughter or not.


Humans are born to procreate. it is a natural progress.

We are actually designed to procreate "usually" by the age of 15.

so yes.

i've never seen houdini prior to this thread, dont make assumptions.

doubt that your son would get in enough trouble to worry about the gun on a first date unless he really is the type of guy I fear my daughter to date. So if he comes home and says 'he had a gun' tell him 'stay away from him and his daughter, they are bad people'

there you go, i solved another problem for ya!


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
You don't need to retreat into rudeness or assumptions. I have read every word on this thread. The fact remains that you are pre-judging a whole set of people based on their gender.


Not based on their gender.

I judge all people, and those who claim they don't are liars.

it is human nature to judge. I know of not one person I have ever met in my entire life who can claim "i never judge anyone"

Well... there was Jesus, but even he judged the pharisees.


----------



## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

Well said Yoshua!


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

ps-An exception does not make the rule.

If I know that there is a 75% chance of a car jacking in an area, I speed through it.

That doesnt mean 100% of the people there want to car jack me, it means there are enough people in that area that I don't want to run in to.

Sorry for that 25% of good people in the area, but ah well, I'd rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB*
I think it is possible to see both the humor and the sexism inherent in stuff like this. Dads are protective of their daughters, sometimes to the point of caricature and making fools of themselves. The underlying message of the self-deprecating caricature is that their daughter is valued and loved and treasured.

That we don't often see these sorts of "rules for dating my son" is a sign of the lingering double standards about boys' and girls' sexuality. Instead, we get "rules for marrying my son" and mother-in-law jokes - jokes with little grains of truth to them, in many people's experience, that show that mothers can be just as controlling and over-protective of their sons, even though it is not generally manifested with respect to his sexuality, but more with respect to "taking care" of him.

Exactly.

It's the sexuality issue between the father and the daughter that disturbs me here. and while the father jokes are a source of pride and a display of strength on the father's part, I don't think that mother-in-law jokes are seen by people quite the same way. the mothers jokes may center on, 'can you marry my son', the fathers jokes seem to center on 'can you have sex with my daughter', something i find to be disturbing. another 'little grain of truth' hidden in the meaning.

But I guess I just think there's a little more to it than 'loved and appreciated' more like owned.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

You said you wouldn't threaten anyone in one post, but in others you say you will "kill" your daughter's date or "You won't like what happens." Those _are_ threats.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
You said you wouldn't threaten anyone in one post, but in others you say you will "kill" your daughter's date or "You won't like what happens." Those _are_ threats.


actually i said it in the same post!


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

So maybe they aren't threats.........


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Exactly.

It's the sexuality issue between the father and the daughter that disturbs me here. and while the father jokes are a source of pride and a display of strength on the father's part, I don't think that mother-in-law jokes are seen by people quite the same way. the mothers jokes may center on, 'can you marry my son', the fathers jokes seem to center on 'can you have sex with my daughter', something i find to be disturbing. another 'little grain of truth' hidden in the meaning.

But I guess I just think there's a little more to it than 'loved and appreciated' more like owned.


I see those jokes the same way. It is a mothers form of dominance over their sons home life. DEAR GOD! WHAT WILL WE DO! SAVE THE DAUGHTERS FROM OVER BEARING MOTHER IN LAWS!..... yes it is sarcastic, but I do see it the same way, which is why I don't take offense at either side of it.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
So maybe they aren't threats.........











hence: The right sense of humor.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
So maybe they aren't threats.........

 Please explain how "I will kill you" isn't a threat to kill someone. Or how "you won't like what happens." isn't one.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

i've never seen houdini prior to this thread, dont make assumptions.
Whatever, the point was that it's a little weird to invite some man to bring out firearms to keep your kid 'in line'. I also don't think it will be effective.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Trust me, those consequences naturally came to my mind.

as for 'contradictions' if you can't see the heart of a paragraph and what is intended by it,sorry, stop reading what I write.








:

I won't deny you what "came to your mind," but that does not make a definition, eh?

Should I not seek clarity when I'm not understanding the meaning behind your words? How else are we to communicate? I don't think I'm crazy to be confused by two entirely oppositional statements in one paragraph.







:


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Whatever, the point was that it's a little weird to invite some man to bring out firearms to keep your kid 'in line'. I also don't think it will be effective.


Not really. But then you and I don't have the same thought processes.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I won't deny you what "came to your mind," but that does not make a definition, eh?

Should I not seek clarity when I'm not understanding the meaning behind your words? How else are we to communicate? I don't think I'm crazy to be confused by two entirely oppositional statements in one paragraph.







:


nah, feel free to ask me to clarify, but just get this. Sometimes my thoughts jump, so from one minute to the next it can sound like I am contradicting myself, but to me it seems clear.

Some form of insanity I was diagnosed with when I was 6 months old.... that stupid square refused to go in the circle hole....

*edit: I also didnt see my shot gun statements to my son as a threat, more along the lines of one of those 'natural consequences'


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

ok, whatever, I'm going to make dinner now. just don't go anywhere near my kid with a gun, regardless of where he touches your daughter.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
*Not based on their gender.*
I judge all people, and those who claim they don't are liars.

it is human nature to judge. I know of not one person I have ever met in my entire life who can claim "i never judge anyone"

Well... there was Jesus, but even he judged the pharisees.

Did you not mean to imply then, that you are suspicious of teenage boys in general because you've seen how some of them behave, and remember how you felt as a teenage boy? That is mass judgment based on age and gender and an entirely different animal than judging an individual based his or her own unique merits and faults.


----------



## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

Houdini would love to respond but lost power due to storm.
I am talking to her on the phone, that is how I know.
In her defence, she doesn't need anyone to keep her son "in line". She has taught her children to respect everyone. She just understands when a joke is a joke.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
ok, whatever, I'm going to make dinner now. just don't go anywhere near my kid with a gun, regardless of where he touches your daughter.


Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Did you not mean to imply then, that you are suspicious of teenage boys in general because you've seen how some of them behave, and remember how you felt as a teenage boy? That is mass judgment based on age and gender and an entirely different animal than judging an individual based his or her own unique merits and faults.


I am suspiscious of teenagers in general, why people keep designating one gender over another is beyond me.

i am not sexist. I am suspiscious and cautious.

*edit

and how am i supposed to know ones merits and faults the first time they walk up to my door exactly?


----------



## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.

Houdini and I agree completely Yoshua!!


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

i'll check this thread when i get home. it has entertained me for the rest of my day at work.

i have a sense of humor, it is dark and sadistic at times, but it is there and I own up to it.

granted, you dont 'need' a dark and sadistic sense of humor to get this joke, it just helps.


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
I am suspiscious of teenagers in general, why people keep designating one gender over another is beyond me.

i am not sexist. I am suspiscious and cautious.

*edit

and how am i supposed to know ones merits and faults the first time they walk up to my door exactly?

You imply that your suspicion of the boys in the equation is based out of the experiences and mindsets of your peer group. Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys? Why do you have the suspicions you do?

You don't know much if anything about a particular person's merits the first time you meet them. So why do you see fit to judge them at that time? Because of their age? Because of their gender? Because of both in combination?

In my view, this joke is based off of the widespread ideology that men are sex fiends and women are fragile flowers that need defense against these wild hump beasts. Both genders are pigeonholed into their usual sexist boxes and that is offensive to me, not humorous. Which is not to say that I expect everyone to feel similarly!


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommaof3boz*
I am appalled with this thread. Someone posted something she thought was funny. A couple of other people thought it funny. Not everything has to turn into World War Three on MDC. Not everything is a political statement. Not everything is a debate. There is something to be said for "if you don't have something nice/decent to say to a person don't say anything". She was laughing about something her husband thought funny and frankly many of you are being downright rude. I think that goes against every rule here on MDC. IRL you can say whatever you want to someone but you have to say it looking at their face and knowing you've hurt their feelings. Online its much easier to blast someone forgetting they are a human being behind their keyboard. Being with open minded people are why many come to MDC, its a shame when this behavior goes on. No wonder women can't get along.

I have had no intention of being rude, only to voice my opinion and explore both my ideas and those of others. No one has to participate in any discussions here beyond their desire to. This has turned into a debate, despite its original form. Isn't that sometimes the nature of discussion boards? I would have no trouble stating my case and asking my questions face to face. What has been rude, in your opinion?

I do feel for the OP, in that I think she'll be surprised at the outcome of her post! I hope she's not scared away by the perhaps vociferous set. But what kind of place would MDC be without discussion, disagreement and exploration of beliefs?


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB*
I think it is possible to see both the humor and the sexism inherent in stuff like this. Dads are protective of their daughters, sometimes to the point of caricature and making fools of themselves. The underlying message of the self-deprecating caricature is that their daughter is valued and loved and treasured.

That we don't often see these sorts of "rules for dating my son" is a sign of the lingering double standards about boys' and girls' sexuality. Instead, we get "rules for marrying my son" and mother-in-law jokes - jokes with little grains of truth to them, in many people's experience, that show that mothers can be just as controlling and over-protective of their sons, even though it is not generally manifested with respect to his sexuality, but more with respect to "taking care" of him.

And finally...







I can totally get on board with this post.

I feel like I "get" the humor here, and see where those who find it funny are coming from. But for someone with my individual set of beliefs and philosophies it happens to be offensive.

The mother-in-law jokes are equally offensive and unfunny to me, and I'm glad you've highlighted the flipside of this particular joke.


----------



## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

I am so glad my dad didn't feel like he was the defender of my punani's "purity."

The thought of my dad investing that much time into worrying about who was or wasn't allowed in there is completely disgusting.

I find MIL jokes pretty yucky, too. I guess I think those kinds of "jokes" set people up to be at odds with each other before anything negative ever happens, and puts them in a mindset where they aren't responsible for handling their disagreements: "well, that's how MILs are, whaddya want?"

We should, instead, learn to respectfully handle our disagreements and boundaries in a complicated (new!) family relationship. Jokes like that don't do anything to help us through that process, any more than "evil stepmother" jokes do anything to help blended families negotiate those issues.

But I'm bothered by how driven people are to control their kids' sexuality, especially their daughters'... my MIL and I may not see eye-to-eye on all (or even most) matters, but she certainly never thought of forbidding her son from having sex with me. Or anyone else.

His sexuality was his to handle, and she trusted that he was a good, moral, person with enough intelligence to be in charge of his own sexual affairs.

why do we not assume the same of our daughters? Do they deserve less of our trust?

????


----------



## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Better idea. tell your kid to respect people. and after this conversation, what makes you think I'd let your kid date my daughter in the first place? Obviously have different idea's for respect.

You can't respect a person whose genitals you've touched?







I'll tell my husband.

silliness.

I guess we do all have different "idea's for respect."


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Uhhh, ok, yoshua, now that you told me to, I guess I will teach my son to respect people.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
And finally...







I can totally get on board with this post.

I feel like I "get" the humor here, and see where those who find it funny are coming from. But for someone with my individual set of beliefs and philosophies it happens to be offensive.

The mother-in-law jokes are equally offensive and unfunny to me, and I'm glad you've highlighted the flipside of this particular joke.

 ITA with this whole post.







I have a strained relationship with my MIL, like a lot of people do, but hurtful threatening jokes at her expense are not appropriate or helpful.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

I am so glad my dad didn't feel like he was the defender of my punani's "purity."

The thought of my dad investing that much time into worrying about who was or wasn't allowed in there is completely disgusting.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eightyferrettoes*

His sexuality was his to handle, and she trusted that he was a good, moral, person with enough intelligence to be in charge of his own sexual affairs.

why do we not assume the same of our daughters? Do they deserve less of our trust?

????











Why do people assume that girls are incompetent with regard to sexual decisions & therefore they must have a male (father or boyfriend) be in control of it, and that boys are ravaging sex beasts incapable of responsible thought and respect to women?? What on earth is that about? It's crazy I tell ya.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
You imply that your suspicion of the boys in the equation is based out of the experiences and mindsets of your peer group. Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys? Why do you have the suspicions you do?

You don't know much if anything about a particular person's merits the first time you meet them. So why do you see fit to judge them at that time? Because of their age? Because of their gender? Because of both in combination?

In my view, this joke is based off of the widespread ideology that men are sex fiends and women are fragile flowers that need defense against these wild hump beasts. Both genders are pigeonholed into their usual sexist boxes and that is offensive to me, not humorous. Which is not to say that I expect everyone to feel similarly!


Because I choose to. Why do you feel a need to specify a why?

Ur issue. not mine.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eightyferrettoes*
You can't respect a person whose genitals you've touched?








I'll tell my husband.

silliness.

I guess we do all have different "idea's for respect."


you are mistaken. No where did I say that.

just wanted to clarify and say 'someone was misinterpreting my words, or putting words into my mouth.'

that is all.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Uhhh, ok, yoshua, now that you told me to, I guess I will teach my son to respect people.










i am glad, that makes me happy. I can now sleep well at night and stop starving myself in worry.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*









Why do people assume that girls are incompetent with regard to sexual decisions & therefore they must have a male (father or boyfriend) be in control of it, and that boys are ravaging sex beasts incapable of responsible thought and respect to women?? What on earth is that about? It's crazy I tell ya.










'people' who are these people? where can i find them? crazy people. Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18. why would they think only girls should be protected? protect the boys too! protect the boys too!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
*Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18.* why would they think only girls should be protected? protect the boys too! protect the boys too!


(Bold emphasis mine.)
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. There is nothing special and magical about the age of 18 that imparts some hidden insight regarding sex. I wasn't referring to "crazy people". I was referring to the idea that girls are incompetent and boys are always sex crazed disrespectful beings being crazy.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I TA with everything unschoolnma has said.

My sexual decisions before I was 18 were very competent, thank you very much. 18 is such an arbitrary number, and maturity happens at different rates for different people.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Because I choose to. Why do you feel a need to specify a why?

Ur issue. not mine.

Sorry, because you choose to what? I'm trying to gain understanding of your perspective. You have questioned me about where I'm seeing sexism, I answer you and ask some questions of my own. Dialogue, see? If you're done, say the word.

I don't know what you mean by "Ur issue. not mine."


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## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Everyone is incompetent with regard to sexual decision pre-18.

Naw, I don't think so. I was a legally emancipated minor at 17, and my sexual values were already pretty much what they are today.

Nothing about turning eighteen magically confers wisdom in sexual matters.







I've met 30-year-olds who didn't seem to have any sense at all, and 15-year-olds who seemed pretty solid.

I don't think post pubescent kids need to be protected from their own sexuality; just educated.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*

(Bold emphasis mine.)
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. There is nothing special and magical about the age of 18 that imparts some hidden insight regarding sex. I wasn't referring to "crazy people". I was referring to the idea that girls are incompetent and boys are always sex crazed disrespectful beings being crazy.


catch the sarcasm, at least lift your glove into the air so it might accidentally fall into it.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I am going to jump in here and say pre-18 my crew are my responsibility, so I will do whatever is I deem necessary to ensure their safety. Each household is different and I don't expect everyone would agree with my decision; however, that is the beauty of it.....the decision is mine to make.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
Sorry, because you choose to what? I'm trying to gain understanding of your perspective. You have questioned me about where I'm seeing sexism, I answer you and ask some questions of my own. Dialogue, see? If you're done, say the word.

I don't know what you mean by "Ur issue. not mine."


you accused me of sexism. lets get things into perspective. I am not sexist. I will equally judge all teens because I choose to. everyone judges, i accept the fact.

When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.

If I find a girl in my sons room after hours there would be just as much hell to pay as if there was a boy in my daughters.

you call me a sexist. I am an equalist and a realist.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am going to jump in here and say pre-18 my crew are my responsibility, so I will do whatever is I deem necessary to ensure their safety. Each household is different and I don't expect everyone would agree with my decision; however, that is the beauty of it.....the decision is mine to make.


/agreed 100%

even though my comment was made in jest and no one caught it.

*edit and btw, just got done watching the bourne supremecy.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Yoshua

OT.....Do you know where he is???


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## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*

When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.

If I find a girl in my sons room after hours there would be just as much hell to pay as if there was a boy in my daughter's room.


ITA Yoshua!


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
you accused me of sexism. lets get things into perspective. I am not sexist. I will equally judge all teens because I choose to. everyone judges, i accept the fact.

Again, you seemed to be implying that your judgment of male teenagers is driven by the behavior and mindset of your peers during your teenage years. Is that or is that not accurate? I only work so hard at an answer for this because wouldn't such a basis for your judgment fall right into your preferred definition of sexism?

Quote:

Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.
I must add that this is not the first thread where I have seen you make grand and sweeping proclamations about human males as a group, either.







:

Again I will ask: Are you suspicious of teenage girls for different reasons than you are suspicious of teenage boys?

Quote:

When I meet a teen on an individual basis, then I will mold an opinion about that specific teen as to how respectful they are of my son or daughter and the rules we have set up for our house.
See, this is a different tune than you were singing earlier. Which is it?







:


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I am suspicious of everyone when I first meet them. I don't care if you are a teen or an adult. I reserve the right to be suspicious until I am shown otherwise.


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## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am suspicious of everyone when I first meet them. I don't care if you are a teen or an adult. I reserve the right to be suspicious until I am shown otherwise.

Same here Houdini!


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

*sigh* do you bring out the shotgun too? geez, if you are _that_ suspicious of everyone, how do you have any friends? this is ridiculous. I'm not sayin that anyone's gloriously happy when their teen daughter comes home pregnant. But isn't educating her and empowering her really the only way you're going to prevent that? I mean other than rape situations, does she really require a shotgun wielding father?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

No, I don't own a shotgun. But if there was one in the home it would be wielded by myself, not her father.

I actually have several friends of which some agree with me and some do not. That is the beauty of friends....they don't have to agree with you on everything.

I am educating my daughter and empowering her to make wise decisions. It amazes me how you manage to determine my finding the original post funny translates into my not educating my kids. I also am not seeing the jump to my daughter being pregnant as a teen either.


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## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

I have a lot of friends, but that is not the point. The point is I don't trust just anyone with my kids. I have educated dd about teen pregnancy but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be protective of her. I am just as protective of ds. There is nothing wrong with letting the boy/girl know that I am very protective of my children.
Just because I feel this way doesn't mean it is right or wrong. It is just how I am.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I might be suspicious, or at least not totally giving over 100% of my trust to a stranger, but I don't whip out a shotgun when meeting someone new. See the difference? The implication throughout this thread has been that teen boys need to be "managed" by threats of violence. Violence has no place in dealing with my, or other peoples', kids.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

No, I don't own a shotgun.
Well then? You can see what I'm saying.

Quote:

I have a lot of friends
Of course you do, that's because, when your daughter leaves on a date, you don't sit on the front porch glaring at her boyfriend, holding a shotgun.

Everybody is protective of their children in this way. (well, ok , not _everyone_) I still think it is really weird for a father to be butting into her date's life and their relationship in such a personal way. I mean, watch out for her and make sure he's being nice, but where he puts his hands?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dawn38*
There is nothing wrong with letting the boy/girl know that I am very protective of my children.

You are right. Protective makes perfect sense to me. I am protective of my kids. (They are protective of me too, but that's not the point.) What I have a problem with is saying that threatening to kill or seriously injure someone elses teen is acceptable and just being "protective". IMO it's like excusing spanking a kid with a belt by calling it a "discipline" or "a paddling" instead of assault. You know...the things a great deal of people on this board are against.

If a person ever came after my son with a shot gun, or a bow and arrow or any other weapon I would call the police asap. Somehow I don't think an explanation of "He was on a date with my daughter and got home 45 minutes late." or "He told a lie to my daughter and made her cry." is a good enough reason for a grown man (or anyone really) to physically injure a teenager. It'd likely get you arrested. People mess up. They are late, teens have dramatic moments in their relationships just like everyone else with moments of anger and sadness, betrayal and reunion. No one needs to get shot ya know?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I might be suspicious, or at least not totally giving over 100% of my trust to a stranger, but I don't whip out a shotgun when meeting someone new. See the difference? The implication throughout this thread has been that teen boys need to be "managed" by threats of violence. Violence has no place in dealing with my, or other peoples', kids.

I guess my crew shouldn't meet up with your crew. I am amazed (yet again) how the thought of this being funny has turned into me bringing a shotgun out (which I still don't own) to threaten anyone.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Well then? You can see what I'm saying.

Of course you do, that's because, when your daughter leaves on a date, you don't sit on the front porch glaring at her boyfriend, holding a shotgun.

Everybody is protective of their children in this way. (well, ok , not _everyone_) I still think it is really weird for a father to be butting into her date's life and their relationship in such a personal way. I mean, watch out for her and make sure he's being nice, but where he puts his hands?

I didn't say I wasn't going to polishing a gun when the date arrives...just not a shotgun. I do plan on grilling anyone who comes to my house for a date with any of my children. I plan on being just as protective as Yoshua. Anyone coming into my home (and they will need to come into my home first) will need to assure my of their intentions and I plan on being very vigil.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I guess my crew shouldn't meet up with your crew. I am amazed (yet again) how the thought of this being funny has turned into me bringing a shotgun out (which I still don't own) to threaten anyone.









 The shotgun remark is mostly aimed at Yoshua. I don't own a shotgun either.









Why shouldn't your crew meet mine exactly? (Well unless we live close we prob wouldnt anyway but ...lol) It started because some folks thought it was funny, and some found it horrifying. That started a conversation as to why each side thought what they though. It happens a lot. It's debate.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

It amazes me how you manage to determine my finding the original post funny translates into my not educating my kids

Quote:

But isn't educating her and empowering her really the only way you're going to prevent that?

Umm, i am not just talking about you.

Quote:

I'm not sayin that anyone's gloriously happy when their teen daughter comes home pregnant
again, where is the reference to _you_?

And the shotgun conversation we all participated in, remember?


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
You are right. Protective makes perfect sense to me. I am protective of my kids. (They are protective of me too, but that's not the point.) What I have a problem with is saying that threatening to kill or seriously injure someone elses teen is acceptable and just being "protective". IMO it's like excusing spanking a kid with a belt by calling it a "discipline" or "a paddling" instead of assault. You know...the things a great deal of people on this board are against.

If a person ever came after my son with a shot gun, or a bow and arrow or any other weapon I would call the police asap. Somehow I don't think an explanation of "He was on a date with my daughter and got home 45 minutes late." or "He told a lie to my daughter and made her cry." is a good enough reason for a grown man (or anyone really) to physically injure a teenager. It'd likely get you arrested. People mess up. They are late, teens have dramatic moments in their relationships just like everyone else with moments of anger and sadness, betrayal and reunion. No one needs to get shot ya know?

Are you seriously missing the fact that a large portion of this debate has been in jest. I highly doubt Yoshua will come hunting your child down anymore than I would. That being said, I have no issues with using whatever lawful means I have at my disposal to ensure my child's safety.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
The shotgun remark is mostly aimed at Yoshua. I don't own a shotgun either.









Why shouldn't your crew meet mine exactly? (Well unless we live close we prob wouldnt anyway but ...lol) It started because some folks thought it was funny, and some found it horrifying. That started a conversation as to why each side thought what they though. It happens a lot. It's debate.









Sorry......my brain and mood have been going downhill and I think I am starting to get too serious about this thread. I need to take I few breaths and go back to the fun aspect.


----------



## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

Yoshua

If one of my boys ever dates one of your daughters feel free to clean your gun 'accidently' in their view. Same goes for if my daughter ever dates a son of yours.
I don't think that much of this _conversation_ has been in jest, although, obviously the OP was in jest. I get the joke, I just don't think it's funny and you guys are bringing up some very unfunny reasons for supporting it.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

But whatever, I only have boys and had no father, so this whole concept is obviously going to be different to me than to some others.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Umm, i am not just talking about you.

again, where is the reference to _you_?

And the shotgun conversation we all participated in, remember?

Sorry, these comments came after one of my posts and since I was the only one not agreeing with you I assumed you were referring to me. I guess they are right about assumptions. Besides, if you weren't 'just talking about me' then I must have been part of the person you were referring to. Next time, let me know when you want me to respond so I don't step on your toes.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I don't think that much of this _conversation_ has been in jest, although, obviously the OP was in jest. I get the joke, I just don't think it's funny and you guys are bringing up some very unfunny reasons for supporting it.

Alright most of mine has been in jest and I think that a bit of Yoshua's as well. Sorry......must go back to my cleaning while I wait for my daughter to return from her date.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Sorry......my brain and mood have been going downhill and I think I am starting to get too serious about this thread. I need to take I few breaths and go back to the fun aspect.









 It's alright, we all get carried away. Me included. I never found any part of the original joke all that funny though. And therein lies the issue at the heart of the thread I guess lol.

I think my issue is that I do not think Yoshua is making these remarks in jest. I actually did say something about how it's either a joke or it's serious when you say "I will kill you." And Yoshua said something (don't have it right in front of me) about how it's only a joke if the kid listens to what he says. This implies if that kid doesn't listen he will actually injure or kill said teen?

So much is hard to detect without facial and tone of voice cues. But I seriously want to know what Yoshua means regarding threats of violence against teen males. Either he is serious or he is doing a puffed up macho , respect my authority thing.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
It's alright, we all get carried away. Me included. I never found any part of the original joke all that funny though. And therein lies the issue at the heart of the thread I guess lol.

I think my issue is that I do not think Yoshua is making these remarks in jest. I actually did say something about how it's either a joke or it's serious when you say "I will kill you." And Yoshua said something (don't have it right in front of me) about how it's only a joke if the kid listens to what he says. This implies if that kid doesn't listen he will actually injure or kill said teen?

So much is hard to detect without facial and tone of voice cues. But I seriously want to know what Yoshua means regarding threats of violence against teen males. Either he is serious or he is doing a puffed up macho , respect my authority thing.









I really think this is just Yoshua's sense of humor, which I totally understand. I am much along the same lines as he is with the humor stuff, so I guess that is why I am taking it with a grain of salt.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

Next time, let me know when you want me to respond so I don't step on your toes.
Of course I wanted you to respond. I was just responding to what you said:

Quote:

I am educating my daughter and empowering her to make wise decisions. It amazes me how you manage to determine my finding the original post funny translates into my not educating my kids. I also am not seeing the jump to my daughter being pregnant as a teen either.
with this:

Quote:

Umm, i am not just talking about you.
I was just saying that I think we should respond to the pressures our daughters face with education and empowerment, not threats to their boyfriends.
And I was just telling you that I wasn't talking about YOU educating your daughter, specifically.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I was just saying that I think we should respond to the pressures our daughters face with education and empowerment, not threats to their boyfriends.
And I was just telling you that I wasn't talking about YOU educating your daughter, specifically.

You were just referring to those who you believe to educate their children the way you think I do. You were assuming b/c of my responses on this thread that I wasn't educating my child the correct way.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am suspicious of everyone when I first meet them. I don't care if you are a teen or an adult. I reserve the right to be suspicious until I am shown otherwise.









that


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
The shotgun remark is mostly aimed at Yoshua. I don't own a shotgun either.









Why shouldn't your crew meet mine exactly? (Well unless we live close we prob wouldnt anyway but ...lol) It started because some folks thought it was funny, and some found it horrifying. That started a conversation as to why each side thought what they though. It happens a lot. It's debate.










I don't own a shot gun or have a daughter. But when I get the daughter the next purchase is the shot gun.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I don't think that much of this _conversation_ has been in jest, although, obviously the OP was in jest. I get the joke, I just don't think it's funny and you guys are bringing up some very unfunny reasons for supporting it.


oh really? I've been sitting here all day laughing my ace off.

my SO just said 'are you just messing with them now?' about 30 seconds ago.

i'm not though, i full heartedly mean every word I said in this thread that occured in the 15th sentance of the second post on the 10th page.

yup, every word.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
You were just referring to those who you believe to educate their children the way you think I do. You were assuming b/c of my responses on this thread that I wasn't educating my child the correct way.


yeah some people seem to be judgemental, sheesh, that is just wrong.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
oh really? I've been sitting here all day laughing my ace off.

my SO just said 'are you just messing with them now?' about 30 seconds ago.

i'm not though, i full heartedly mean every word I said in this thread that occured in the 15th sentance of the second post on the 10th page.

yup, every word.









:

I am so with you on this Yoshua.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I don't think ANYBODY is taking this seriously. Where we differ is whether or not this is an appropriate topic to joke about. Here's a poll I made about this topic.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I think my issue is that I do not think Yoshua is making these remarks in jest. I actually did say something about how it's either a joke or it's serious when you say "I will kill you." And Yoshua said something (don't have it right in front of me) about how it's only a joke if the kid listens to what he says. This implies if that kid doesn't listen he will actually injure or kill said teen?

There goes the noone is taking this seriously on this thread theory.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

my SO also asked last night 'So.... do you get the shotgun at the ultra sound or wait till the birth?' and I said 'Wait for the birth silly, it takes a while to get a concealed shotgun permit'


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

And everyone knows the ultrasound could be wrong. No sense getting the shotgun if you are positive the baby is a girl.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

so true


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

is this 15 sentences long?

SWIPER NO SWIPING
SWIPER NO SWIPING
SWIPER NO SWIPING


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

I adore you UnschoolnMa!







And I agree with everything you've written in this thread.


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## georgiacanuck (Jun 18, 2006)

I put this on yesterday and had not a chance to get back online till today ...i did not realize the ****storm this would create ....its a joke...obviously some people do not share the same humour geez ...it wasnt meant to be sexist and it wasnt meant for you all to rip my husband to shreads...he didnt make it up somebody else did...for the few that saw the humour in it thanks for standing up for it even if you did take one heck of a bashing ....and for all the questions my husbands daughter is 12 going on 13 not even dating yet...for the people that picked thru it just for something to protest about ...as i see it ..as i said before its a joke ...get it...my daughters all went thru the dating scene and they had a rule if the boy didnt have the respect to come into my house and meet me they didnt walk out that door.i knew where they were and when they were coming home and they knew the consequences if they were one minute late..was i a tuff mother yes..but i have alot of respect from them now one is in her last year of accounting and one is going thru to be a psychologist.my son hasnt decided yet what he wants to do and yes he has the same rules as the girls had......my husband is a sheriffs officer and he loves his one and only daughter very much so for his protectiveness of her i fully stand behind him....hes the one that goes to the door and tell the parents of other beautiful girls that just went out on a date that their daughter was dead because their date was drunk or that their daughter was in the hospital because she was raped and beaten by that lovely young boy...the innuendos that were posted by some people made me sick i didnt even make it though all the comments ....he has been there for his daughter which is a heck of alot more than i can say for some fathers that couldnt give two ***** about what they do...that was my one and only joke that will ever be posted on this board ...you dont know me or my husband so knock off the crap about how hes sexist or any of the other off remarks...im glad your life is so entertaining that you could spend the whole day on the computer ripping apart a silly joke...


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgiacanuck*
I put this on yesterday and had not a chance to get back online till today ...i did not realize the ****storm this would create ....its a joke...obviously some people do not share the same humour geez ...it wasnt meant to be sexist and it wasnt meant for you all to rip my husband to shreads...he didnt make it up somebody else did...for the few that saw the humour in it thanks for standing up for it even if you did take one heck of a bashing ....and for all the questions my husbands daughter is 12 going on 13 not even dating yet...for the people that picked thru it just for something to protest about ...as i see it ..as i said before its a joke ...get it...my daughters all went thru the dating scene and they had a rule if the boy didnt have the respect to come into my house and meet me they didnt walk out that door.i knew where they were and when they were coming home and they knew the consequences if they were one minute late..was i a tuff mother yes..but i have alot of respect from them now one is in her last year of accounting and one is going thru to be a psychologist.my son hasnt decided yet what he wants to do and yes he has the same rules as the girls had......my husband is a sheriffs officer and he loves his one and only daughter very much so for his protectiveness of her i fully stand behind him....hes the one that goes to the door and tell the parents of other beautiful girls that just went out on a date that their daughter was dead because their date was drunk or that their daughter was in the hospital because she was raped and beaten by that lovely young boy...the innuendos that were posted by some people made me sick i didnt even make it though all the comments ....he has been there for his daughter which is a heck of alot more than i can say for some fathers that couldnt give two ***** about what they do...that was my one and only joke that will ever be posted on this board ...you dont know me or my husband so knock off the crap about how hes sexist or any of the other off remarks...im glad your life is so entertaining that you could spend the whole day on the computer ripping apart a silly joke...











Don't let this stop you from posting jokes or anything else. To each his own. I completely agree with being protective.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgiacanuck*
I put this on yesterday and had not a chance to get back online till today ...i did not realize the ****storm this would create ....its a joke...obviously some people do not share the same humour geez ...it wasnt meant to be sexist and it wasnt meant for you all to rip my husband to shreads...he didnt make it up somebody else did...for the few that saw the humour in it thanks for standing up for it even if you did take one heck of a bashing ....and for all the questions my husbands daughter is 12 going on 13 not even dating yet...for the people that picked thru it just for something to protest about ...as i see it ..as i said before its a joke ...get it...my daughters all went thru the dating scene and they had a rule if the boy didnt have the respect to come into my house and meet me they didnt walk out that door.i knew where they were and when they were coming home and they knew the consequences if they were one minute late..was i a tuff mother yes..but i have alot of respect from them now one is in her last year of accounting and one is going thru to be a psychologist.my son hasnt decided yet what he wants to do and yes he has the same rules as the girls had......my husband is a sheriffs officer and he loves his one and only daughter very much so for his protectiveness of her i fully stand behind him....hes the one that goes to the door and tell the parents of other beautiful girls that just went out on a date that their daughter was dead because their date was drunk or that their daughter was in the hospital because she was raped and beaten by that lovely young boy...the innuendos that were posted by some people made me sick i didnt even make it though all the comments ....he has been there for his daughter which is a heck of alot more than i can say for some fathers that couldnt give two ***** about what they do...that was my one and only joke that will ever be posted on this board ...you dont know me or my husband so knock off the crap about how hes sexist or any of the other off remarks...im glad your life is so entertaining that you could spend the whole day on the computer ripping apart a silly joke...











I got the joke

and the beating didn't hurt, they used wiffle bats and it made me laugh more.


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Pretty sad that it is considered inappropriate for a male to want to protect his children from the potential sexual aggression of other males.

Oh wait, teenage boys can do no wrong. There's no such thing as date rape.







Never mind.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel*
Pretty sad that it is considered inappropriate for a male to want to protect his children from the potential sexual aggression of other males.

Oh wait, teenage boys can do no wrong. There's no such thing as date rape.







Never mind.

sarcasm is fantastic


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## Abigailsmommy (Sep 23, 2003)

Whoa, some of you ladies have issues. It was a joke and a funny one at that. Is it fun being wound up so tight all the time? Lighten up!

That whole barrier meaning the dad would be between the legs deal is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Talk about reading into things.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel*
Pretty sad that it is considered inappropriate for a male to want to protect his children from the potential sexual aggression of other males.

Oh wait, teenage boys can do no wrong. There's no such thing as date rape.







Never mind.

I totally agree with you.







: to avoid the wiffle bats, not the tomato


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## georgiacanuck (Jun 18, 2006)

i have seen that you have gotten the joke i hope you were wearing your helmets while you were getting bashed over the head with comments nobody knows anybody else its the internet yet it surprises me how people can make assumptions about how we raise our children ...and maybe when my step daughters dates show up i will be cleaning my husbands gun when her date walks in the door







..nobody has threatened anybodies sons...we arent going to hurt them...as i see it its just a warning that my daughter or as i see it your daughters had better be treated with respect or thats the last time they will see them no matter what they say....to girls under 16 yes they damn well better have supervision ...saying dont they have any say in the matter...in my opinion NO they dont...thats the problem with the kids today they are given free reign with their lives ....ohh because mommy wants to be their friend...dont upset them .i dont care if i am considered the mother from hell..we are the parents we make the rules..not the other way around..they learn them and hopefully pass them on to raise wonderful and respectful children of their own someday...to parents of children over 16 go on myspace and do a browse of kids in your zip code you want a shock at whats on there..it will show 18 year olds but alot of them lie about their age...and alot of it is open for any tom dick or harry to see...their home towns suggestive pictures...even after all the warnings...they still do it...


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

This, even in my opinion has gotten completely ridiculous.

Why is it so difficult to process that there are certain types of joking that are offensive to some people? No one has attacked anyone else, no one has judged the OP, her husband or any other individual who finds this humorous instead of offensive. Holding a different opinion is not a judgment of those who feel differently.

It can be just a joke to whomever, but that doesn't mean that those who find it offensive are obligated to keep quiet about it.

Frankly, I think the defensiveness is telling, when it is in response to a few people simply delving into the reasons why they think something is offensive. Intellectual debate shouldn't be so threatening.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
This, even in my opinion has gotten completely ridiculous.

Why is it so difficult to process that there are certain types of joking that are offensive to some people? No one has attacked anyone else, no one has judged the OP, her husband or any other individual who finds this humorous instead of offensive. Holding a different opinion is not a judgment of those who feel differently.

It can be just a joke to whomever, but that doesn't mean that those who find it offensive are obligated to keep quiet about it.

Frankly, I think the defensiveness is telling, when it is in response to a few people simply delving into the reasons why they think something is offensive. Intellectual debate shouldn't be so threatening.


The ridiculous part is this.

If it offends you, why didn't you just walk away?..... She didn't post it to 'offfend' people.

My 4 year old SS has a saying when he is upset about something.

"No, You don't like ME, walk away."

that translates to "Right now we have a disagreeance that is asinine, lets just drop it."


----------



## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*







: to avoid the wiffle bats, not the tomato

Just consider me the barrier between you and the wiffle bat.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

:


----------



## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
The ridiculous part is this.

If it offends you, why didn't you just walk away?..... She didn't post it to 'offfend' people.

My 4 year old SS has a saying when he is upset about something.

"No, You don't like ME, walk away."

that translates to "Right now we have a disagreeance that is asinine, lets just drop it."

This post was not labeled with any kind of disclaimer that one should only respond with appreciation of the humor represented. I didn't respond because I thought the OP was trying to offend. My feelings about this joke are in no way related to her or her opinion of said joke. Which is why I'm having trouble understanding why my thoughts and feelings on this matter seem to be being taken as some kind of personal judgment.

What would the world be like if people just up and walked away from things that offended them, instead of adding their voice of opposition? I don't see it as a bad thing for those who are opposed to sexism, racism, ageism, violence, etc. to speak up against it when they see it.

Obviously I'm not changing the cultural climate by putting in my two cents here, but I'm not going to remain silent about issues that matter to me just because not everyone will agree with me.

Sometimes sexism is more difficult to detect than say, racism, but I'm still going to call it out when I see it.


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
The ridiculous part is this.

If it offends you, why didn't you just walk away?..... She didn't post it to 'offfend' people.

My 4 year old SS has a saying when he is upset about something.

"No, You don't like ME, walk away."

that translates to "Right now we have a disagreeance that is asinine, lets just drop it."

So, by this argument, if I see someone being racist or sexist or cruel and I find it offensive, I should just walk away versus attempting meaningful dialogue or at the very least, pointing it out?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
So, by this argument, if I see someone being racist or sexist or cruel and I find it offensive, I should just walk away versus attempting meaningful dialogue or at the very least, pointing it out?


Different situations.

Calling someone sexist for defending their offspring is asinine.

Just because I don't agree with someone elses methods of protecting there children, does not mean I should educate them on how to do so. If the child is not being harmed, it is not my place. If the child is being beaten in front of me, I have no problems jumping in and putting an end to it.

Those are the analogies that fit. Calling someone sexist based on a joke that is based on stereo types is not the same as stopping abuse.


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Different situations.

Calling someone sexist for defending their offspring is asinine.

Just because I don't agree with someone elses methods of protecting there children, does not mean I should educate them on how to do so. If the child is not being harmed, it is not my place. If the child is being beaten in front of me, I have no problems jumping in and putting an end to it.

Those are the analogies that fit. Calling someone sexist based on a joke that is based on stereo types is not the same as stopping abuse.

Not realizing that the manner in which one defends his or her children can be sexist is assinine. Not realizing that the way people parent can perpetuate sexism, racism, etc.. is assinine. Not realizing that jokes can also perpetuate racism, sexism, etc. is assinine.

ETA: No one has called anyone sexist here based on a joke. I don't think anyone has been called sexist period. I think the point for some of the posters I agree with was that there are ideas in that joke that are very sexist and some of the ideas put forth about "protecting offspring" ring of sexism as well.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
This post was not labeled with any kind of disclaimer that one should only respond with appreciation of the humor represented. I didn't respond because I thought the OP was trying to offend. My feelings about this joke are in no way related to her or her opinion of said joke. Which is why I'm having trouble understanding why my thoughts and feelings on this matter seem to be being taken as some kind of personal judgment.

What would the world be like if people just up and walked away from things that offended them, instead of adding their voice of opposition? I don't see it as a bad thing for those who are opposed to sexism, racism, ageism, violence, etc. to speak up against it when they see it.

Obviously I'm not changing the cultural climate by putting in my two cents here, but I'm not going to remain silent about issues that matter to me just because not everyone will agree with me.

Sometimes sexism is more difficult to detect than say, racism, but I'm still going to call it out when I see it.

By all means add your voice if you find it offensive. Just don't expect that all of us agree the joke was sexist.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
Not realizing that the manner in which one defends his or her children can be sexist is assinine. Not realizing that the way people parent can perpetuate sexism, racism, etc.. is assinine. Not realizing that jokes can also perpetuate racism, sexism, etc. is assinine.

I don't agree with any of your conclusions about the joke so does that mean my child will grow up (in your opinion) to be sexist and/or racist?


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
Not realizing that the manner in which one defends his or her children can be sexist is assinine. Not realizing that the way people parent can perpetuate sexism, racism, etc.. is assinine. Not realizing that jokes can also perpetuate racism, sexism, etc. is assinine.

ETA: No one has called anyone sexist here based on a joke. I don't think anyone has been called sexist period. I think the point for some of the posters I agree with was that there are ideas in that joke that are very sexist and some of the ideas put forth about "protecting offspring" ring of sexism as well.


quite a few people have been called sexist in this thread.

me included.

might wanna start at the front and make ur way to the end.


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I don't agree with any of your conclusions about the joke so does that mean my child will grow up (in your opinion) to be sexist and/or racist?

I think a refusal to be open to any suggestion that some of your ideas on this subject might perpetuate sexism and reinforce negative gender stereotypes will not do your children a great service.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
Not realizing that the manner in which one defends his or her children can be sexist is assinine. Not realizing that the way people parent can perpetuate sexism, racism, etc.. is assinine. Not realizing that jokes can also perpetuate racism, sexism, etc. is assinine.

ETA: No one has called anyone sexist here based on a joke. I don't think anyone has been called sexist period. I think the point for some of the posters I agree with was that there are ideas in that joke that are very sexist and some of the ideas put forth about "protecting offspring" ring of sexism as well.

To each his own.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
quite a few people have been called sexist in this thread.

me included.

might wanna start at the front and make ur way to the end.

That's just snide and unnecessary. I've read every post on this thread. This thread is now well over 200 posts. If I missed something and am being inaccurate, I genuinely apologize.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
I think a refusal to be open to any suggestion that some of your ideas on this subject might perpetuate sexism and reinforce negative gender stereotypes will not do your children a great service.

At what point did I refuse to be open to any suggestions.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
I think a refusal to be open to any suggestion that some of your ideas on this subject might perpetuate sexism and reinforce negative gender stereotypes will not do your children a great service.


and I think accusations, falsely made, reinforce 'negativity' in a thread. When they are based on 'biased' opinions.

We don't mind that you think the joke is sexist, not our problem that you have an issue with us 'not' finding the joke sexist.

It's yours.

Have a nice day!


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
That's just snide and unnecessary. I've read every post on this thread. This thread is now well over 200 posts. If I missed something and am being inaccurate, I genuinely apologize.


missed? I was called sexist repeatedly for almost 3 pages.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
At what point did I refuse to be open to any suggestions.

I was just speaking in general terms. I have no idea how your child(ren) will grow up.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Wait.....I think I finally got why you keep posting on this thread Yoshua. Are you just trying to break that 1000 mark today????


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Wait.....I think I finally got why you keep posting on this thread Yoshua. Are you just trying to break that 1000 mark today????


shhhh.

long term goals arent made in a day.

I keep posting here because of entertainment value. I really don't get my feathers ruffled on this subject. I respect that other people do not agree with my parenting standards, which includes but are not limited to small side arms and sawed off shotguns, but I do get irritated when I am told I am sexist or biased in any way shape or form.

So I tend to defend myself when I am accused of something I am not. Which I was accused. Which made this thread humongous..... is that a pink flamingo?


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
missed? I was called sexist repeatedly for almost 3 pages.

Really? Someone specifically wrote, "Yoshua, you are sexist"? I read people dialoguing and debating, in a civil manner, about sexism and sexist ideas. I didn't read any labelling or name calling.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*

I keep posting here because of entertainment value.

How very patronizing of you.

Have a great day!


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
How very patronizing of you.

Have a great day!










I will Thanks!










You too!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Darn it- nobody's outright called Yoshua "sexist" yet?

Ok, Yoshua is sexist.

There, happy now?


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Darn it- nobody's outright called Yoshua "sexist" yet?

Ok, Yoshua is sexist.

There, happy now?









:


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
Really? Someone specifically wrote, "Yoshua, you are sexist"? I read people dialoguing and debating, in a civil manner, about sexism and sexist ideas. I didn't read any labelling or name calling.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=56

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=77

i double the sexism in the thread! woowhoo! /sarcasm

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=92

Specifically using the definition of sexism to define a statement I made. woowhoo!

i can go on, but I don't blame anyone for saying it, not trying to ruffle the feathers. just saying it did happen.

re read if ya need.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Darn it- nobody's outright called Yoshua "sexist" yet?

Ok, Yoshua is sexist.

There, happy now?


whoa whoa whoa....

I'm sexist?..... thought i was an equal oppourtunist and a realist? I discriminate evenly amongst all the sex's..... that is more than just 'boys and girls' btw.

If anything i would say I am an 'ageist' but I know I'm not using THAT word right


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*

Specifically using the definition of sexism *to define a statement I made*. woowhoo!


Defining a statement is different than labelling someone. But, cheers Ruthla.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
whoa whoa whoa....

I'm sexist?..... thought i was an equal oppourtunist and a realist? I discriminate evenly amongst all the sex's..... that is more than just 'boys and girls' btw.

If anything i would say I am an 'ageist' but I know I'm not using THAT word right









So, by this argument, if you maintained and perpetuated stereotypes of all races versus one or two, you wouldn't be racist?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I don't think you're sexist Yoshua- I just wanted to state it outright so people could no longer complain that nobody was called sexist on this thread.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Yoshua

I can only hope my daughter will date a boy with father just as sexist as you are.......oh wait you aren't sexist. Well, whatever the description assigned to you I am with you 100%.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
So, by this argument, if you maintained and perpetuated stereotypes of all races versus one or two, you wouldn't be racist?


You are racist if you believe your race is above others

you are sexist if you discriminate BASED on sex.

stop trying, you cant compare apples to oranges.

not to mention if you hated 'all races' you would be self loathing..... and thats just not healthy.


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
You are racist if you believe your race is above others

you are sexist if you discriminate BASED on sex.

stop trying, you cant compare apples to oranges.

not to mention if you hated 'all races' you would be self loathing..... and thats just not healthy.

Anyone who's racist at all must be self loathing IMO.

I don't appreciate you telling me to "stop trying." You might not feel that what I have to express is valid, but I do. There is inherent sexism in perpetuating stereotypical gender roles. I acknowledge that as my personal opinion. You have a right to disagree, but plese don't tell me to "stop trying." It's rude and condescending.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
Anyone who's racist at all must be self loathing IMO.

I don't appreciate you telling me to "stop trying." You might not feel that what I have to express is valid, but I do. There is inherent sexism in perpetuating stereotypical gender roles. I acknowledge that as my personal opinion. You have a right to disagree, but plese don't tell me to "stop trying." It's rude and condescending.


what you are expressing is taking my statements and attempting to invalidate them. come up with thoughts of your own instead of attacking mine and i will stop telling you to 'stop'

k?

thx!

I havent attacked you in any way shape or form, your veiled attemps, or not so veiled to invalidate what I say is a form of trolling, trying to incite me into an argument. I apologize that it is not working.


----------



## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
what you are expressing is taking my statements and attempting to invalidate them. come up with thoughts of your own instead of attacking mine and i will stop telling you to 'stop'

k?

thx!

I havent attacked you in any way shape or form, your veiled attemps, or not so veiled to invalidate what I say is a form of trolling, trying to incite me into an argument. I apologize that it is not working.

I've been an active member here for over two years. I am doing nothing remotely close to "trolling".

I'll leave someone else to take up with you on what has become yet another Yoshua pissing match. Peace.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)




----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
I've been an active member here for over two years. I am doing nothing remotely close to "trolling".

I'll leave someone else to take up with you on what has become yet another Yoshua pissing match. Peace.

deleted due to snarkiness


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.


----------



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.

My father was also like this guy. My uncle actually did clean his gun while a boyfriend was being questioned (my dad was out of the country). My dad also refused to allow me go out alone with a boy for many years.

He did not abuse me sexually. I am not sure what the reference to not uncommon is. I do apologize for what you went through with your father.


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I am not sure what the reference to not uncommon is.
My point is that a huge number of women have been sexually abused in some way by family members, often fathers or stepfathers. Many such fathers and stepfathers, from my anecdotal reading, then go on to be very possessive of their daughters in adolescence. I am probably not the only one who has read this thread who had such an experience. To me, the "Lighten up, ha ha, joke, joke" POV here is one that willfully ignores this painful truth.

I believe there is a connection between the "I own my daughter's sexuality" POV and childhood sexual abuse of girls.


----------



## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Let me tell you what: my father WAS like this, only it wasn't a joke. He threatened my boyfriend, subtly and un-subtly. He refused permission for many, many things involving boys. He did everything he could short of locking me in my room with a chastity belt on.

Let me tell you something else: I was sexually abused by my father from the ages of 5-12. Not uncommon, that.

Is the "joke" funny to me? What do you think?

Thank god I have a husband who finds this kind of crap just as paternalistic, sexist, and creepy as I do.


I am sorry those things happened to you, but you have to know that is not the 'norm' no matter how 'not uncommon' it is.... it is not normal to have to go through those things, and i empathize with you.

really do, no snarkiness from me on this comment.

but this 'joke' is not about an abusive father..... but we all only see things through our own looking glasses.


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

but this 'joke' is not about an abusive father.
This joke is about a father who is being inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality. It is possible for this kind of attitude to have a inappropriate, sexually abusive tinge to it. Even though the sexual abuse was no longer ongoing by the time I was a teen, my father's attitude FELT like a continuation of the abuse. He used to interrogate me as to what my boyfriend and I "did" together. Creepy, isn't it? Honestly, though, it's just a stone's throw from this kind of attitude,

By the way, when I eventually told my boyfriend about my father, he was hardly surprised. You may want to think hard about the kind of message you send to others when you act this way about your child's sexuality.


----------



## Dawn38 (May 14, 2006)

The bashing on this thread is what makes me hesitate to post anything on this site. I am so afraid of being bashed for my opinion so I useually keep to myself. I can't believe how far the OP has been taken out of context.






























to everyone!!


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
This joke is about a father who is being inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality. It is possible for this kind of attitude to have a inappropriate, sexually abusive tinge to it. Even though the sexual abuse was no longer ongoing by the time I was a teen, my father's attitude FELT like a continuation of the abuse. He used to interrogate me as to what my boyfriend and I "did" together. Creepy, isn't it? Honestly, though, it's just a stone's throw from this kind of attitude,

By the way, when I eventually told my boyfriend about my father, he was hardly surprised. You may want to think hard about the kind of message you send to others when you act this way about your child's sexuality.

See now this is where we differ. I don't see this as a father being "inappropriately possessive of his daughter's sexuality." I see this as a protective father much the same as my father was.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel*
Pretty sad that it is considered inappropriate for a male to want to protect his children from the potential sexual aggression of other males.

Oh wait, teenage boys can do no wrong. There's no such thing as date rape.







Never mind.

1. No one ever said that a male cannot or should not protect his daughter from sexual aggression. Or if they have, I missed it. (Quite possible in a thread this long really.) I believe that nearly every parent, mother or father, would intervene if his child (son or daughter) was being sexually assaulted. I will be aggressive, or "violent" if you will, in self defense or in the defense of my child. But most of this thread hasn't been really discussing that kind of situation ...it's been discussing things like being late home from a date, or touching a girl anywhere but on her hands.

2. What some are considering inappropriate is threating a daughter's date with physical violence and intimidating him with weaponry. This is very different, in my mind, than protecting them because I think I can do that (and more importantly help them do that for themselves) without bringing out firearms. (Oh and I wanted to mention that I am not anti-guns as a general rule just in case someone was thinking that.)

3. No one on this thread has said there is no such thing as date rape. Of course there is. Again I don't think that we are discussing that in this thread for the most part. The "joke" describes normal dating ie picking a girl up at her home, taking her somewhere, and bringing her home a few hours later. The implication that all teen boys are crazed sex maniacs who cannot respect a girl or her family is a large part of my problem. It's way too general. I think we all know that the teen years are a hormonal time, but that doesn't mean it renders every teenager an idiot bent on sexual assault.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've seen this joke before on another board I used to frequent. I think honking at the door to pick up your date is rude. Aside from that, there's nothing in the joke that I find funny in any way. Obviously some people do think it's funny. DH actually thought so the first time he read it. I find the attitude expressed within it really, really creepy. I'd be horrified if my dad had ever treated one of my dates that way.

That kind of behaviour doesn't protect daughters. My dad and my brother are both big, strong "macho" men...furniture movers, by trade. You can bet the guys we met thought about the fact that our dad was a big man. But, that didn't stop one of them from date-raping my sister, and it didn't stop another one from trying the same thing with me. If that kind of intimidation protected our daughters from predatory males, it might be worth trying...but it doesn't. (No - dad didn't try to intimidate, but he did so, anyway. When you're a 140 pound 15-year-old highschool boy, the 220 pound, muscular father of your date is not a reassuring sight. I heard about it...a lot, and it did stop one guy who wanted to date me - not just have sex with me - from even trying.)

I also trusted the judgment of my parents when they told me they didn't like a friend or a date. I knew it wasn't because of some stupid superficial thing. I knew mom didn't like a friend just because she looked a little rough, because many of my other friends looked rough, too. I knew dad didn't dislike a guy I was dating, just because he was dating me...because dad liked other guys I dated just fine. If they didn't like me spending time with someone, there was a _real_ reason (and they never, ever forbade me to do so).

So, let's see...rule two: I'm not telling my daughter's date not to look at her in front of me. Good god! I sincerely hope that my daughter will have enough self-respect not to date a guy who's willing to ogle her and leer at her in front of her parents...or at all, to be honest. That kind of behaviour is disrespectful. But, it's up to my daughter to draw the boundaries...I guess I could feel she was "safe" (from what? her own sexuality?) if the guy didn't touch her "in front of me", but if they're going to hold hands or kiss as soon as they leave, what difference does it make? I want my daughter's date to be _himself_ when he comes to my house, so I know who my daughter is dating. Lots of creeps appear to be on their best behaviour when daddy's watching.

Rule Three: Um..ick. Not my business to tell my daughter's date how to dress. I used to hang out with kids in studded leather...some of them were jerks, and some of them were sweethearts. The clothes mean nothing to me, _especially_ in the teens.

Rule Four: Again...ick. If my daughter's date rapes her, I may kill him. But, that's not what the joke implies at all. It implies that if they have consensual sex, daddy will "kill" his daughter's date. I hope my daughter isn't going to have casual sex, because I think it's both physically and emotionally risky, but...how is threatening the guy supposed to help?

Rule Five: So - what's the problem with the guy trying to be polite? Isn't a failure to be polite the great offense in Rule One?? If you're keeping your ears open, social chit-chat is a great place to start getting a fix on someone, anyway (see Rule Two about knowing who my daughter is dating). This guy can't win...being polite is out, but being rude is out, too.

Rule Six: Yuck, yuck, yuck!! "My little princess now owns your life, just because you dated her once." Yuck!! again. If she made a bad choice, and the guy's a fickle Romeo type, then she has to endure some heartache...much as I don't want to see my daughter ever go through this, I have no doubt she will. Daddy being a neanderthal isn't going to change that.

Rule Seven: WTF? Okay - more "my little princess" crap. It's perfectly okay for the daughter to be inconsiderate, but god forbid the date have any feelings.

Rule Eight: I have little to say. The entire theme of this rule is just grotesque. "Take my daughter out - treat her with respect - but make damned sure she doesn't have a good time."

Rule Nine: Missed this one. I agree absolutely that the date shouldn't lie. However...does the daughter not know where the date is going to be? She shouldn't be lying to me, either.

Rule Ten: Okay- that one's just goofy. More of the same, but just goofy.

I guess I can see how some people would find this funny. Humour is tricky. But, the overall theme really wigs me out. I guess I believe that all humour is rooted in truth (including cultural truths) and I find the cultural truths that this particular joke draws its humour from to be disturbing, at best.

Oh - and supervision in this arena's over-rated. I had one friend who wasn't allowed to date or wear makeup or anything. Guess who was the first one in my crowd of friends to be sexually active? Guess who cut class on a regular basis to spend time in her boyfriend's van? Guess who had the first baby? It wasn't any of the ones who weren't "protected" from boys or from their own sexuality.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgiacanuck*
I put this on yesterday and had not a chance to get back online till today ...i did not realize the ****storm this would create ....its a joke...obviously some people do not share the same humour geez ...it wasnt meant to be sexist and it wasnt meant for you all to rip my husband to shreads...he didnt make it up somebody else did

 I am sorry you feel like some people here "tore your husband to shreds". I did not. I also realize that he didn't create this list of rules.









Quote:

for the people that picked thru it just for something to protest about ...as i see it ..as i said before its a joke ...get it..
Well no we clearly do not "get it". We get that some people think it's funny, and that they have a right to think it's funny. We also have a right to discuss these differences here. Sometimes there is debate on a message board. I didn't have to pick through anything. I found the whole thing to be just no good.

Quote:

that was my one and only joke that will ever be posted on this board ...you dont know me or my husband so knock off the crap about how hes sexist or any of the other off remarks...im glad your life is so entertaining that you could spend the whole day on the computer ripping apart a silly joke...
 Well it's certainly up to you to decide if what, if anything, you want to post on this board. Speaking for myself, I am not angry at anyone here personally. It's the ideas I am debating. People are going to do what they feel is right. We all have to decide for ourselves what we think is sexist or isn't sexist. My life is pretty happy generally. I do enjoy debating topics that I find interesting and meaningful. You don't have to debate if you don't want to, but once a thread is up it kind of has the freedom to take on a life of it's own within the user guidlines of course. You have to decide what is right for you and your child. In that process I wish you the best.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
but that doesn't mean it renders every teenager an idiot bent on sexual assault.


see, now here is where the 'looking' glass comes into play. I agree. not 'every'

but you just described the majority of my graduating class. boys and girls.

yeah, i said majority. my looking glass.

we also had ALOT of teen pregnancies in our area too, they 'force' those girls to go to the alternative school. force is a relative term, but the real highschool 'claims' 0% preg rate, but that is coz they send them to the alternative school


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
Oh - and supervision in this arena's over-rated. I had one friend who wasn't allowed to date or wear makeup or anything. Guess who was the first one in my crowd of friends to be sexually active? Guess who cut class on a regular basis to spend time in her boyfriend's van? Guess who had the first baby? It wasn't any of the ones who weren't "protected" from boys or from their own sexuality.

See now in my "crowd" most of my friends parents were highly protective and vigilent in the supervision aspect. None of us ended up sexually active, cut class, or became pregnant. It seems maybe your friend's parents didn't educate her about sex. I wasn't allowed to wear make-up or date until I was sixteen, but my parents educated me about sex. Big difference. My crew will be protected and highly supervised, but they will also be educated as to all aspects of sex and sexual relationships.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

My friend was educated about sex. I don't know if was from her parents or not. But, she talked to me about it a lot (so did my mom) and she knew what she was talking about. The boyfriend that she cut classes for was a long-term boyfriend, not a single date or anything. They lived together for a couple of years after high school, too. I knew her very well, and as far as I can tell, she had a high sex drive, and got tired of her parents trying to tell her who was an acceptable date...period.

I can't imagine how I would have reacted if I'd been told I wasn't allowed to date. I really can't. How on earth can you "allow" or "not allow" your child to form relationships with people?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

I guess I was close enough to my parents that I didn't feel the need to disobey. I knew they wanted what was best. It did bug me sometimes, but I really had no interest in dating until I was 16. I dated a few guys before I met my husband. I can't imagine letting my child make their own decision about something as life-altering as a sexual relationship. I remember how hard it was to remain a virgin and not give in to the sexual pressures felt by myself as well as my boyfriend. I firmly believe that placing yourself in a situation where you are always alone with someone you are attracted to only increases the odds of a sexual relationship forming. Whether you regret the action later or not, it is best not to place yourself in the situation to begin with.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
By all means add your voice if you find it offensive. Just don't expect that all of us agree the joke was sexist.

I realllllllly so much do not hold that expectation. Realllllllly.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I guess I was close enough to my parents that I didn't feel the need to disobey. I knew they wanted what was best. It did bug me sometimes, but I really had no interest in dating until I was 16. I dated a few guys before I met my husband.

I don't think the "disobedience" necessarily has anything to do with how close you are to your parents. Speaking for myself, my sexuality is a lot more complicated than "mom said no".

Quote:

I can't imagine letting my child make their own decision about something as life-altering as a sexual relationship.
umm...they _do_ make their own decision. Except those people whose first sexual experience is rape (date or otherwise), we _all_ make our own decision about a sexual relationship. Of course, the decision we make is affected by our parents - the relationship we have with them, the values they taught us, etc. But, we all make that decision for ourselves. The idea of someone deciding when somebody _else_ is ready for a sexual relationship gives me the creeps. That was my decision to make, and it will be ds1's decision to make, and dd's decision to make, and ds2's decision to make. I hope they make wise choices and remember the things we've talked about over the years. But, it's still not my decision to make.

Quote:

I remember how hard it was to remain a virgin and not give in to the sexual pressures felt by myself as well as my boyfriend. I firmly believe that placing yourself in a situation where you are always alone with someone you are attracted to only increases the odds of a sexual relationship forming. Whether you regret the action later or not, it is best not to place yourself in the situation to begin with.
Best until when? When you're 16? When you're 18? When you're 22? When you're married? Eventually, most people are going to form a sexual relationship with somebody - and, eventually, that's going to be best for that person. Whether the first sexual relationship they form is at a time when that's the best thing for them or not...soooo many variables.

I was _ready_ for the sexual relationship I had with my ex...at 16. I knew girls who waited until they were 18 or 19, and still weren't really ready when they became sexually active. These things vary wildly from one person to the next. I know two men who remained virgins into their 20's. They both regret _that_. I lost my virginity at 15, and don't regret it. So - what's "best"?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgiacanuck*
i have seen that you have gotten the joke i hope you were wearing your helmets while you were getting bashed over the head with comments nobody knows anybody else its the internet yet it surprises me how people can make assumptions about how we raise our children

When I speak here, on MDC, I talk about how I raise my kids and how my family works. It's not perfect by any means, but it's who we are. So for those people in this thread who have talked about what they have and/or will do in regard to thier daughter dating. It's not an assumption if someone is telling me "This is what we do." or "This is what we have done".

Quote:

...and maybe when my step daughters dates show up i will be cleaning my husbands gun when her date walks in the door







..nobody has threatened anybodies sons...we arent going to hurt them...
To me the point of the gun is to imply that you have weapons that you could potentially use if someone (teen boy) does something you don't like. We all know what guns do, and that is why the "joke" works (for those it works for anyway). Gun= a threat of pain etc. That is a threat to me. If a warning was all you were doing you could just give a verbal warning or discuss what you wanted.

Quote:

to girls under 16 yes they damn well better have supervision ...saying dont they have any say in the matter...in my opinion NO they dont...thats the problem with the kids today they are given free reign with their lives ....ohh because mommy wants to be their friend...dont upset them .i dont care if i am considered the mother from hell..we are the parents we make the rules..not the other way around..
 My family doesn't work this way at all. We discuss and we take all members of family & their opinions seriously. I am my kids' friend, and then some.







From time to time we upset each other because we are human, but we apologize and try to move on. We all make the "rules" in my family. I respect that this is not your way, but I do not agree that "that's the problem with the kids today."


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
These things vary wildly from one person to the next. I know two men who remained virgins into their 20's. They both regret _that_. I lost my virginity at 15, and don't regret it. So - what's "best"?

In my circle of friends most of us were virgins until marriage. The ones who waited until marriage never had regrets. I have only been in one sexual relationship (with my husband) and the only regret I have is we didn't wait until marriage. I am guessing we won't agree on any of this; therefore, I think it is best to agree that we disagree. No point in going round and round about issues that neither of us are willing to compromise on.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.

Just wondering where your posts have been taken personally. Not being snarky, just curious.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

its not just here to be honest.

Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.

I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.

But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.

If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)

I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.

But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
its not just here to be honest.

Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.

I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.

But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.

If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)

I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.

But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I'm really having an issue understanding how some things seem to be taken so personally here. It could be just as simple as differences in temperament, but I'm having trouble seeing just what exactly has been so attacking from me or the offended-by-this-joke faction. All I'm really interested in is discussion, and it's disappointing to see things devolve into defensiveness, snarkiness and sniping.

Maybe I'm too new to message board dynamics, but what's with the drama? Why can't we just talk, debate, discuss?

I apologize if my observation and discussion of sexist humor or ideology makes anyone feel as if I have labeled them or disparaged their character, but I really think if you take a second look you'll see that it just hasn't been personal at all.

 I tried to highlight just one part for emphasis, but it was all so spot on for me. I agree. I suppose emotions run high when we feel passionate about something, but in general I am not angry in these discussions. I am all about debating and talking and examining. I am not about the bickering.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Just wondering where your posts have been taken personally. Not being snarky, just curious.

I don't mean to imply that anyone has singled me out, but to speak more of how hurt the OP seems to be by some people being offended, whether it's just me or not. As someone who has been vocal on this thread, I thought I would try to clarify my position to possibly assuage hurt feelings. I feel both regret and confusion if she is indeed hurt or upset.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *secretresistance*
I don't mean to imply that anyone has singled me out, but to speak more of how hurt the OP seems to be by some people being offended, whether it's just me or not. As someone who has been vocal on this thread, I thought I would try to clarify my position to possibly assuage hurt feelings. I feel both regret and confusion if she is indeed hurt or upset.


well that can be explained that she got an unexpected reaction.

She assumed everyone would just get a quick laugh from the joke, she didnt expect people to start calling the joke Sexist.

If you call her joke sexist it can be internalized to believe that you think she herself is sexist, which may or may not be true, but i can easily see how that can jump from a-b-c.

She expected everyone to have fun, it's obvious that some people did not.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
its not just here to be honest.

If that's in reference to my incredulence at message board drama, then I'm sure you're right.

Quote:

Alot of times in life when someone's thoughts/ideas/emotions/actions are challenged, even if it is indirectly, people take it personally as if someone doesn't agree with them.
I've noticed. It's so far from how I operate that I have a hard time getting the concept. I have to wonder if things have to, or should be this way though.

Quote:

I agree full heartedly with Houdini on just about everything we have talked about.
Right on. I have to admit however, that I don't have a good handle on exactly what the reality of your feelings about this issue are, what with all the back and forth about what's serious to you and what isn't.







:

Quote:

But that doesn't mean I believe those of you who disagree with us are wrong, just different.
That's pretty much where I'm coming from as well, which is another reason why I don't understand what I see as defensiveness or upset.

Quote:

If your actions were hurtful to your children, in my opinion, i would possibly speak up.

Just as alot of you are. However in my opinion my actions would not be hurtful, and in the eyes of the law it would be true. There is no law stating I can not set rules for my household to protect my children as I see fit so long as I am not hurting them (in the eyes of the law)

I don't see my rules as hurtful, and when the time comes if my child disagrees with me, I hope to have an open honest relationship with them so they can come to me and discuss the situation and potential comprimises.

But people coming on here telling me I am wrong? you are not in my life, it doesnt really affect me, and in the end, we will see who is right. Possibly both of us are, just using different methods.
That's all just fine with me, but it's statements like in this last quoted portion that make me feel like my opinions on this issue are being taken more personally than is my intention. I'm not interested in discussing _you_ as a person or as a parent. I'm pretty sure I've stuck with discussion of your ideas, with a big side of semantics.


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I tried to highlight just one part for emphasis, but it was all so spot on for me. I agree. I suppose emotions run high when we feel passionate about something, but in general I am not angry in these discussions. I am all about debating and talking and examining. I am not about the bickering.









After years of being a lurker, I have to tell you that I feel appropriately radical to be aligned with you!


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## secretresistance (Dec 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
well that can be explained that she got an unexpected reaction.

She assumed everyone would just get a quick laugh from the joke, she didnt expect people to start calling the joke Sexist.

If you call her joke sexist it can be internalized to believe that you think she herself is sexist, which may or may not be true, but i can easily see how that can jump from a-b-c.

She expected everyone to have fun, it's obvious that some people did not.

I've theorized as much. I just don't naturally understand that process from a to c.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Closed for review.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

As a mother of boys (and one girl), i hope my boys never date anyone with a mother like this. Although some of the statements were funny, most of them were contemptuous of the boyfriend. Respect others if you want them to respect you.


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