# son wants to show his face on you tube



## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

My son is turning thirteen this coming week, and he has asked us for two things. 1) to allow him to show his face on you-tube. He and his friends are into doing funny videos and he wants to post them. I have not felt comfortable with this and have said no to his face being able to be seen. The other request was for a video game plants vs zombies which cost $80.00. My husband and I do not want to get this game for him as we only like him playing games on line with other kids he knows. So he and his friends play minecraft. I don't think he really cares about the plants vs zombie game, but he really wants to show his face on you tube. And when he said again tonight how he is hoping he can do this, and when we told him that we were not going to be ok with it - I felt like my heart was breaking. I could see the disappointment on his face,which he tried to hide. I admit, I do not understand the dangers of the internet and posting ones face. It just seems like it would not be a good idea. And I hate the idea of any mean comments coming in. I know we could silence the chat somehow - but I don't know if that would take away the fun of getting comments from friends. Oh, I am just posting to see if anyone else feels the same way and why it is good not to do this. Or if people see it a different way. Honestly, I hate saying no to him. But I feel he is still too young - I guess. The hard part for me, is I know that is all he really wants.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

intentionalmama said:


> I admit, I do not understand the dangers of the internet and posting ones face. It just seems like it would not be a good idea.


I must be missing something. Why would this be a problem? If his team won a soccer tournament and a photo was posted in your local newspaper, would that be something you'd object to too? My 13yo has had her photo in two newspapers in the last month. I can't imagine objecting. And of course newspapers have online editions nowadays.

I think it's important not to share a photo or video of a young person without their consent (implied or otherwise). But that doesn't sound like that's an issue here, lol!

Your ds should have a reasonable understanding of the importance of not sharing specific identifying information (full name, d.o.b., address) with strangers, and of managing privacy accordingly, using secure passwords, etc.. If his online behaviour is responsible, I would certainly not object to "showing ones face online."

Miranda


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## oldsmom (Jul 8, 2015)

Plants vs. Zombies is not a new video game, and it's animated with child-like cartoons. In my opinion, the game is age appropriate for preteens. It is also usually approximately $25 if purchased online. 

I suggest taking a look at it before you dismiss it. Not sure where you found it for $80, but that would be a crazy price. Even state of the art high end games usually are not more than $60. 

The YouTube issue is more complicated. Trust your gut. Internet trolls can be vicious. Even if the videos are good. If your son has thin skin he may not like the outcome, and it might make sense to wait a few more years. I would recommend telling him an age at which you would be okay with it.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

You can easily put YouTube videos up as unlisted, and then they are only available to those who are given the link. You can share the link via other social media, say, with friends via Facebook or on a Tumblr. If you put YouTube videos up as public rather than unlisted, you can turn off comments. Or you can require comments to be approved before they show up. 

I'm sure your ds has read YouTube comment threads and has seen that they can become nasty. If he hasn't, show him. Then let him decide what he's ready for. Every setting can be tweaked later if things go south. 

I didn't comment on Plants vs. Zombies.. it's a fun game, definitely suitable for children. The $80 price tag is for the latest version (Garden Warfare 2), in Canadian dollars. That version includes solo play, co-operative 4-player play, and open online play with up to 24 others. Voice chat can be enabled or disabled in multi-player mode. There are plenty of older versions that are a lot cheaper, but maybe he wants this particular latest version so that he can play with his friends who also have it?

I'm guessing this is your first time having a teenager. As a veteran of four teens, I can tell you that online chat is a normal and inevitable part of being a teen in 2016. My kids' lives have been enriched by various forms of social media, and we've never had any significant issues. In my opinion it is best that they get experience with it while their parents are still available to support, monitor, be sounding boards and give advice. It's not a scary world, but it's a brave new world with some unique aspects (eg. anonymity, immediacy, and lack of emotion-modulating context) that need to be taken into account. Generally the older teens and young adults I know are much better at this stuff than their parents, because they've grown up with it. 

Beginning to learn about online communication in the context of a home PC and a children's game is ideal, imo.

Miranda


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Thank you mominmamma and oldsmom for your replies. I am having a little bit of a problem replying so I have just cut and pasted and hope this works.



moominmamma said:


> You can easily put YouTube videos up as unlisted, and then they are only available to those who are given the link. You can share the link via other social media, say, with friends via Facebook or on a Tumblr. If you put YouTube videos up as public rather than unlisted, you can turn off comments. Or you can require comments to be approved before they show up.
> 
> This is very interesting and helpful.
> 
> ...


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

If he is just intrigued by the Plants vs. Zombies game, and isn't specifically wanting the internet-mediated multi-player game play features, you could get the original 2014 PvZ Garden Warfare PC version for about $20.

It's great that you recognize that some of your parenting reflexes are driven by your own technology-related fears. I'd encourage you to counteract that by taking an interest, even if it's very much forced at first, in exactly what it is that your ds finds interesting and enjoyable about technology. Watch him play games, ask questions, get him to explain what's going on. Demystify things for yourself.

This really is the age where you have to start trusting kids with a bit more responsibility and decision-making. And trust isn't just allowing kids to choose the things you'd choose for them. It's allowing them to choose _differently_, thus allowing them to forge their own identities and learn from experiencing their choices. It can be hard to let go, but you've invested a lot of parenting in your child already, and despite some mis-steps along the way he is very likely to demonstrate the value of all that good parenting.

Good luck!

Miranda


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

We began allowing our son to post videos (with his dad as moderator of his channel) when he turned 11. Two of his best friends' parents said they can appear in the videos only if their faces aren't seen, and he's been very respectful of that.

We explained to him that if people see you online and then recognize you in real life, that can be awkward because they know who you are but you don't know who they are. You have to remember that just because someone recognizes you, that doesn't mean he is a trustworthy friend. Also, it is possible that someone online will say mean things about your appearance, and the more of yourself you show, the more vulnerable you are to that kind of thing. We had been talking about this for years because his dad and I both have blogs and read a lot of other blogs, so he sees that many other people post lots of photos of themselves and their children, but we don't, why? We did a Google Image search on each member of the family and talked about why his dad and I are comfortable with it being possible but difficult for people to find pictures of us, and why the only pictures of him online were on his uncle's and a close friend's sites in contexts we were comfortable with (part of "news reports" on events, similar to getting his picture in a newspaper). We feel that he's old enough now to understand some of the nuances of putting his picture out there, so we allowed him to make the decision.


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## Peace4you (Sep 7, 2004)

If you can make sure he doesn't give private information like name, address etc and restrict the video to be shared only by him sending the link rather than it being public, then the negatives would be minimal.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I have the same problem. Now borh 8yo and 11yo want to make videos, start their own channel, and collect as many likes as possible. They are stars in the making. My 8yo has already started making his own tee shirts....

I want to encourage their creativity, entrepreneurialism and public relations skills. Such opportunities were not available to me at age 8, although my brother became somewhat well known in the neighborhood after making his own puppet show and putting up fliers everywhere.

But what are all these random strangers out there in the internet world planning to do with the footage of my underage kids?

They also want their own skype account....

Anyway, so I figured there must be some software out there that will replace their face with another face...or something like that....

Not really sure, but just letting them do it makes me feel the same way as if I were to let them just try to run across a road full of ongoing heavy traffic....

I wish I could come to mdc for these kinds of questions, but the place is rampant with trolls now, and I dont expect an intelligent discussion on this issue-although I appreciate the above posts that made sense, some were kind of hard to follow....


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## zebaby (Nov 4, 2006)

My 9 year old wants his own channel to post lots of videos and get lots of likes too. I struggle with finding reasons why not to let him show his face and state his name, but my gut just feels uneasy about it. Hoping to read more responses covering both views to make sense of this myself!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

We had this dilemma. At first I just allowed the voice, without the face. Ds' friends mom wont even allow her sons voice let alone his face (not sure of her logic). Then I let my son experiment once with showing his face, wearing a hat, and various things as disguise. I was going to check it out and see what happened. Then he announced to me that he no longer wanted to show his face, because he had found a way to use a 'skin' or some icon that acted as his personage. (i'm sure theres a term for it, you'll have to ask him)

What Im finding is, the more leeway I give him, the more he finds solutions for himself. He knows alot more than I do about youtube. Thats what I want for him, to have the have to inclination to look for solutions to dilemmas that come up. I dont want to be his dilemma. I want to be the person fascilitating his solutions.

I find that here is no end to learning when it comes to technology. Its always changing, there are always new dilemmas, there are always new solutions.


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## James Irving (Nov 14, 2016)

I would suggest trying to reach some sort of compromise. He will most likely want the videos to be available to the public so he can make them go viral. So I would give him the choice of being able to make the videos public but his and his friends' faces blurred, or allow his face to be shown but restrict video access so he is only able to send it to people that he knows.

Keep in mind though, once something goes online, it's almost impossible to remove it from the web completely. Even if you remove the original posting.


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## Eaglevoice (Nov 30, 2004)

My 3 girls have a YouTube channel together. I think it is hilarious! They use fake names and never mention what city or state we live in. This is part of the "norm" for their generation and I think it opens up a line of communication and trust. They always show us the video and ask for permission before they post anything. If I find something I don't like, I tell them to make a new one. I am constantly monitoring the feedback and there hasn't been any issues yet. You can turn off the comments if it seems he is being harassed.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I'm not clear on precisely what the 'danger' is in showing one's face? In real terms, what are the risks? 

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Being recognized on the street...someone using the footage for other dubious means.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Being recognized on the street is a danger how? I guess I'm showing my small-town colours here, but being recognized on the street is normal for us ... and my children don't necessarily always know, or remember, the people who recognize them. They are polite and cheerful about it. They know what the boundaries for appropriate behaviour and safety are, whether they're recognized or not. Not a big deal, certainly something kids can handle at 13. And honestly, a tween doing 'funny videos with his friends' on YouTube channel is not going to go viral... I doubt we're talking Lennon&Maisy-quality stuff here. 

People using the footage for something ... how would that endanger the kids? How would anyone even know?

Miranda


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

SoccerMom92 said:


> There are ways on the internet for hackers to turn on face recognition and find out where you live. I'm not tech savvy enough to know how lol but at a PTA meeting this came up and one of the dads there mentioned that hackers can do this.


I don't doubt that this is possible, if someone were incredibly determined. But, you know, lots of people know where my kids live. What is the harm in that, in and of itself?

In order for harm to come there has to be (a) the technological know-how and (b) serious, targeted malicious intent and, most importantly (c) a _major_ breach in your teen's adherence to basic personal safety. If you can point me to even one case where a random teen who adhered to basic rules of personal safety was harmed because someone knew where they live, I will be very surprised.

I believe that parents teach their children to assess risks reasonably and rationally by demonstrating this process on their behalf and sharing the critical thinking involved. Being fearful of a theoretical possibility, rather than rationally assessing the risk of harm, does children a disservice, imo.

Miranda


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I don't think trolling is appropriate in this community. Nor is calling the original post stupid. Parents have enough to stress over without having drama added to their lives artificially. This is supposed to be a supportive community.

Miranda


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Not upset at all. I just think trolling, which you've done unabashedly since arriving her at MDC, is one of the lowest forms of human interaction. Please take it elsewhere. Or maybe you could just stop?

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I had in mind trolling pedophiles. Dont you think they look around on site featuring kids? Need i state the obvious? Being recognized on the street by such persons, ie making the connection between the video and the real person., could lead them to follow the kid, find weaknesses etc, have chats with kid online etc.
Not knowing who's watching out there- that is the danger.

So, I still want kiddo to make himself less recognizable. But I admit I am newer to this that some of you. I think there are real risks and a frank discussion of those risks is worth having.

On a happier note, happy thanksgiving to those celebrating. (kids are probably making those videos right now...)



moominmamma said:


> Being recognized on the street is a danger how? I guess I'm showing my small-town colours here, but being recognized on the street is normal for us ... and my children don't necessarily always know, or remember, the people who recognize them. They are polite and cheerful about it. They know what the boundaries for appropriate behaviour and safety are, whether they're recognized or not. Not a big deal, certainly something kids can handle at 13. And honestly, a tween doing 'funny videos with his friends' on YouTube channel is not going to go viral... I doubt we're talking Lennon&Maisy-quality stuff here.
> 
> People using the footage for something ... how would that endanger the kids? How would anyone even know?
> 
> Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

moominmamma said:


> I don't doubt that this is possible, if someone were incredibly determined. But, you know, lots of people
> 
> *know where my kids live*.
> 
> ...


It only takes the first and second bolded. Malicious intent is definitely out there. We are talking about the internet aren't we? There are no limits.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I will ask again ... "_can you point me to even one case where a random teen who adhered to basic rules of personal safety was harmed because someone knew where they live_" ?

Really, I think you're afraid of something that, while theoretically possible, is highly improbable and does not happen without major breaches in common-sense personal safety practices (eg. sneaking away to meet someone not known IRL, engaging in sexualized messaging with strangers). I don't think that what you are alluding to actually happens. Adolescents are not abducted or raped simply because someone finds out where they live by randomly targeting them from a YouTube video.

And while it is much harder to visualize the risks of being afraid of highly improbable things, I think they're greater. Have you read de Becker's "The Gift of Fear"? If not I would highly recommend it, as he explains it well. By not keeping risk in perspective, people can easily be afraid that malintent is lurking in every corner. That generalized fear and distrust in and of itself dilutes one's ability to intuitively experience fear in situations that actually warrant it.

Miranda


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

moominmamma said:


> I will ask again ... "_can you point me to even one case where a random teen who adhered to basic rules of personal safety was harmed because someone knew where they live_" ?
> 
> Really, I think you're afraid of something that, while theoretically possible, is highly improbable and does not happen without major breaches in common-sense personal safety practices (eg. sneaking away to meet someone not known IRL, engaging in sexualized messaging with strangers). I don't think that what you are alluding to actually happens. Adolescents are not abducted or raped simply because someone finds out where they live by randomly targeting them from a YouTube video.
> 
> ...


Whilst you make good points, I dont know how efficiently intuition works over the internet. We might be able to spot a troll on this forum with some experience, but how easily can an 11 year old spot a pedophile lurking on his server as he plays minecraft, or gives him 'likes' on his youtube channel, or subscribes to his channel, whilst all the while posing as some other kid, or anonymous person. This could go on for years for all we know.

(just one recent example-my son met a wonderful character on minecraft, who gave him lots of diamonds-"He's so nice!" my son beamed....I asked 'why did he give you those diamonds?' We never found out.

Perhaps more significantly, is the direct use of footage from my sons youtube page for nefarious means. I think a pair of sunglasses and a moustache might be off putting for anyone with that in mind.

Name examples? I wouldnt have a clue, I havent looked into it. Would we ever even know?

I want to embrace the whole thing, but I wish I knew more, and the potential for abuse keeps changing as technology changes. Its a perpetually shifting target.

I mean, walking down the street has its risks too, but at least I know that the biggest danger is getting into someone's car...I tell kids never to do that... (its happened around here)

So, let them make their videos, but exercise caution. Where to draw the boundaries in the name of caution-that is the question...

My sons friend's mom wont let her son use his voice, let alone his face. I think thats going too far...but she must have her reasons....

So, to the point, are kids/teens completely safe so long as they dont give away any personal information, even if their face is plastered all over the place, and their gaming skills and other interests on video for all to see...?

If so, then just dont give away personal information-thats what i tell my kids....
But I dont think thats the end of the story....


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## DCarp (Dec 5, 2016)

I think the big thing here is communication. Talk with your kids about potential online dangers like giving out your personal information, or being selective in who or what groups you follow, etc...
In a home where communication is happening often I think you get a lot fewer issues.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

DCarp said:


> I think the big thing here is communication. Talk with your kids about potential online dangers like giving out your personal information, or being selective in who or what groups you follow, etc...
> In a home where communication is happening often I think you get a lot fewer issues.


Good advice. We've done that. I wonder if usage of the internet/youtube in particular/showing your face on the internet, whether that presents any additional risks compared to the situation say 10/15 years ago before youtube/internet pervasiveness. I dont think that particular issue is being addressed.

Do you think there are no additional risks? My kids know never to give away personal information.


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