# Sad Puppy, my ass



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

So when dh picks up dd from preschool the other day, the teacher "Miss B" has something to talk to us about.

She pulls out this form - Sad Puppy report - detailing how dd had been sent to the director's office for misbehavior! Apparently she told Miss B to 'shut up'. As background, Miss B is a young, single, childless brand new graduate with bachelor's degree in Child Education







.

Dh tells me that he's standing there kind of speechless, holding this report in one hand and dd in the other, while Miss B stands there glaring and foot tapping, waiting for some kind of a reaction. Finally he says "um, she's two years old. Ya know, two year olds say stuff like that sometimes."

So Miss B starts going on about how inappropriate dd is (in front of dd, remember), and how she has no _idea_ where dd could have possibly picked up on such language because "we certainly don't talk that way here, Mr. blessed! We asked dd to tell us who taught her that, but she refused!"







:

Around this time dh looks down at the paper, and he sees that it is signed by the preschool director on one line _and 'signed' by dd on another_ (a sad little pencil squiggle on a line marked 'signature of child'














) !!

He interrupts Miss B and says "excuse me, but are you telling me that you dragged a two year old child into the director's office, basically _interrogated_ her for saying something that she undoubtably hears other children saying all the time, and then forced her to sign a confession !?"

I can't even describe to you how angry I was. I haven't been able to sit down and write out this story until now because it made me too upset. We immediately started looking into other preschool options. Unfortunately the local Montessori school doesn't have any openings until January. We haven't found another school that we felt was really any different aside from this one, so we likely are going to tough it out until then.

There are many things that dd really likes about her school, fortunately. She has good friends there and several previous teachers who have been very good with her and who remain close with her. We spoke with one of them at length yesterday and she has promised to speak with Miss B and to try and provide her with more supervision as she learns how to be a teacher. I really don't see any point in talking to the director. I know from both this experience and from prior ones that she is absolutely clueless.

Thanks for listening







: .


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

: I'm speechless. 2 YEARS OLD?!?!







I'm sorry.


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

speechless here, too.

Is it really called a Sad Puppy report?


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Unbeleivable! A 2yo is still a baby!


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## illinoismommy (Apr 14, 2006)

wow!!!

I would take my child from that school

Then again we plan to homeschool so I don't let any crazy over educated under qualified people with my kids


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## roseselene (Aug 3, 2003)

: I'm completely speechless. I'm so sorry!
How terrible for your DD.
I think this is a tad passive aggressive, but I might have been tempted to tell the teacher to "shut up"
But that would be bad, wouldn't it.
Amy


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

My mom taught two year olds for many years... this is ridculous. It's ridiculous for a 10 year old! I'm so sorry this happened to your DD.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

It really was a preprinted form with 'SAD PUPPY REPORT' as the title.

We have never liked Miss B. She's been dd's teacher since the classroom switch about two months ago or so. She is this really sad, odd sort of person, sort of disheveled looking. She'd have a hard time getting hired on at any decent restaurant, for example, because she just appears unkempt. She has stringy unstyled hair and wears baggy clothing several sized too large (and she's a big woman). Her pants cuffs drag on the floor and have been stepped on so many times that the edges are frayed and ragged, for example.

When I met her the first time, she LITERALLY could not make eye contact with me when I introduced myself, because she is so socially awkward. This is such stark contrast to the other teachers who happily greet the parents as they come in the room and carry on pleasant conversations about their child. Miss B has never, not one time, said anything positive about dd. It was this strange experience for us because dd has always been this great kid whom teachers raved over. Overnight, we were now being told she was a 'problem child'.

To be honest, when I found out that dd had told her to shut up, my first reaction was a surge of relief and pride







:. I was happy to hear that dd was centered enough to be maintaining a sense of self in spite of the awful negativity of this woman. I'm quite certain that she deserved to be told to shut up







.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

although i do agree that this fledgling teacher has some major issues, i don't think childless people should be prohibited from working in any field pertaining to children. i got into physical therapy first and foremost to become a pediatric pt, and i was a pt for 5 years before conceiving dd. there are some of us out there that are really dedicated to the care and development of little ones and do so in a kind, mindful way. granted, i believe i am a much better therapist to children now after having a child, it is not only because i had a baby, but because of all of the research that i have done now to parent in a conscious way.

blessed, the way that this incident has been handled is, in my view, appalling and i'm so sorry that you and your husband and dd had to endure that. it seems that this teacher has no concept of developmentally appropriate behavior and interactions. i'm all for this teacher receiving supervision and receiving on the job training and support, but i wouldn't allow it at the expense of my child. i hope that you are able to find a workable solution, whether this particular school is able to resolve this issue or you are able to find another place for your dd.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

What kidspiration says, and also...to me, the very existence of pre-printed "Sad Puppy" reports is a bad sign. But maybe they are really only supposed to be used in extreme cases like habitual biting or something? Even in that case, it would seem that the way to address a behavior problem would not be to shame the child with a preprinted report but to talk to the parents (NOT in the child's presence) about whether there might be any underlying causes for the aggression. But for a TWO-YEAR-OLD telling someone to SHUT UP?







: I heard a 2-year-old say "f$ck" on the playground today and although it shocked me, I can't imagine actually being MAD at a child that young for *whatever* might come out of their mouth..."shut up" is really really mild compared to what a lot of 2-year-olds come up with!







I'm really sorry that this happened to you, blessed. Your DD sounds like a spunky one! Good for her!


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## claras_mom (Apr 25, 2006)

Three words, until January...

Home Based Daycare.

It's a world of difference.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:


Comeon, just because you don't have children doesn't mean that you don't know how to relate to them.

Just as in any field there are good and bad teachers. Really, that is like saying that people should be allowed to have kids until they have spent years with other's kids. Now don't get me wrong, there are planty of people who could do well to have to go to some classes (sadly, they would probably filled with main-stream mumbo-jumbo, but some sort of basic would be nice)

It is like saying that someone can't be a surgeon unless they have undergone surgery before.

Did I change as a teacher after I had kids, certainly, but that doesn't me I had no clue before children. It is all about the person, not the family structure


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

I have to agree with Clara's mom, I love our home based day care provider. She is truley considered a member of our family. Together this year we decided not to send Maia to 3 year old preschool (though in our community it seems like every kid goes to 3 year old preschool) Homeschooling is fairly common in our area, but people know I teach Public school. When they ask if Maia is going to preschool you can almost hear the intake of breath when she responds "Mommy and Huck are homeschooling me this year" (Huck is the babysitter)


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

I can't believe that. Poor little girl! And do you have any idea what the teacher did to make her want the teacher to "shut up"?
I'm sorry, but I think I would find _any_ other way besides sending her back to that school.


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## lillake (Apr 22, 2005)

Wow, that's unbelievable. You're a stronger mama than me, I'd be in her business so fast she'd wish she choose a different career path.


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

OMG!! I can't believe that happened!!!!


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

OMG!! I can't believe that happened!!!! Run!!!!!


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

Get DD to a home based daycare ASAP. Ask around - find one that will work with you for a few months.

That is ridiculous and appalling that ANY daycare would do that.

Jenn


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Um... wow... a 2 year old.... got written up.... for saying "shut up"







: I am completely speechless...

love and peace.


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## Kaitnbugsmom (Dec 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roseselene* 







: I'm completely speechless. I'm so sorry!
How terrible for your DD.
I think this is a tad passive aggressive, but I might have been tempted to tell the teacher to "shut up"
But that would be bad, wouldn't it.
Amy

glad I'm not the only one tempted to tell the teacher that I had to agree with your dd and teacher needs to "shut up" and also "grow up" have to say as well that I'm none too thrilled with the director for going along with this little ploy & the signed 'confession' and all...

Was this type of b.s. in the handbook when you re-enrolled her last or is this totally off the wall?


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)

Omg there are SOO many things wrong with that situation but this just really gets to me...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
he sees that it is signed by the preschool director on one line _and 'signed' by dd on another_ (a sad little pencil squiggle on a line marked 'signature of child'














) !!


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## anabellee (Jul 3, 2005)

first off, OMG!!! i would have flipped out on her. and i have to second the mention of homebased daycare. we love our dcp. we have to drive 30mins each way to drop off ds but it's totally worth it. i was having a hard time justifying going back to college (i go from 9-11 m-f) so dh drops of ds in the a.m. around 8 and i pick him up afterwards. the other day, i walked in and he was sleeping on his dcp's chest after reading a book with her. it totally melted my heart and just further affirmed my choice in dc's. plus, since he's not in a big group of kids (at most there's 4 toddlers including him) they can do more activities. they do lots of reading and coloring plus his dcp knows ASL so she's teaching him more signs AND she'll use our cloth diapers!!!!







to you mama. i hope you find a solution soon.


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## U2can (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
It really was a preprinted form with 'SAD PUPPY REPORT' as the title.

We have never liked Miss B. She's been dd's teacher since the classroom switch about two months ago or so. She is this really sad, odd sort of person, sort of disheveled looking. She'd have a hard time getting hired on at any decent restaurant, for example, because she just appears unkempt. She has stringy unstyled hair and wears baggy clothing several sized too large (and she's a big woman). Her pants cuffs drag on the floor and have been stepped on so many times that the edges are frayed and ragged, for example.

When I met her the first time, she LITERALLY could not make eye contact with me when I introduced myself, because she is so socially awkward. This is such stark contrast to the other teachers who happily greet the parents as they come in the room and carry on pleasant conversations about their child. Miss B has never, not one time, said anything positive about dd. It was this strange experience for us because dd has always been this great kid whom teachers raved over. Overnight, we were now being told she was a 'problem child'.

To be honest, when I found out that dd had told her to shut up, my first reaction was a surge of relief and pride







:. I was happy to hear that dd was centered enough to be maintaining a sense of self in spite of the awful negativity of this woman. I'm quite certain that she deserved to be told to shut up







.

There's so many red flags here... but basically... when your children are going to be effected -go with your GUT! It will tell you more than you'll believe.

I would join the others in saying -remove your little girl from this person's influence, immediately. Especially with a director like that, it won't get better & it will most likely get worse now that they've labeld her.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

OMG I can't believe that I would definitely take her out of there until you can find something else suitable for your daughter, it is absolutely unacceptable that a child is treated in this manner and it is compounded by the director's approval ... as you said Sad Puppy ....... ridiculous
Hugs to you


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## sommermommy (May 25, 2005)

That is absolutely ridiculous. All of it infuriated me but especially making your dd sign her sad puppy report. WTF?!?!?! At two?
Shouldn't an early childhood teacher be loving and caring?


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

Is there any hope to switch her to a different classroom? I understand not wanting to make a major switch to a different preschool if you're going to change again in January and there are good things there. But really, that sounds pretty awful. And awful the director would go along with it. Good grief, a 2 year old SIGNING something????? What planet are they on? Might fly in an elementary school, but not with toddlers!!!!







: The fact that she has never said anything good about dd would make me nervous.


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## spruce (Dec 11, 2004)

*Especially with a director like that, it won't get better & it will most likely get worse now that they've labeld her.*

Exactly. I used to do home daycare, and there is NO way this type of punishment is appropriate for a toddler! Your daughter doesn't even understand what happened, what she "signed," or why this is a big deal. Being in a daycare like this won't help her.

And labelling is rampant. Once your child is stickered with the label of "ADD" or "ADHD," or "noisy," or "not potty friendly," the label doesn't go away. Forever.

I hope a home daycare is feasible for you. If you were/are in my area, I'd totally offer to be your DCP, even though I don't do that as a profession any longer. (I have too large a family to be licenced for more than one child).

love, penelope


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blsilva* 
...do you have any idea what the teacher did to make her want the teacher to "shut up"?

All I know is that Miss B was telling her to come over and sit down for circle time.

If I know dd, the only time she ever acts defiant or rejecting is if she's upset about something. So my guess is that she was standing off to the side crying, and the teacher was telling her to come here. If she's upset, she'll sometimes say 'no!' or 'leave me alone!', for instance. Neither dh or I have ever heard her say 'shut up', but whatever. I'm sure she was just mimicking something she's heard from other kids, either at school or around our home.

Interestingly, when the director pressed her to tell her where she'd heard that before, dd kept saying 'Miss B'. Dd really doesn't lie or make things up, although like most 2 yo's she can get mixed up about things she doesn't understand, of course. It sounds a little odd (or maybe it doesn't), but dh and I were saying that we actually wouldn't be surprised if Miss B DID say 'shut up' to the kids at one point or other. She's very coarse, and we both have heard her speaking in very harsh, loud, and rude tones of voice to the children.

Truth is, even before this incident we had already started looking at other preschools for this very reason.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Do you know what I was thinking as I read this? It sounds like a SKIT. From a sitcom, or SNL or something. It's so outrageously NOT age-appropriate that it seems that it should just be a huge joke.

More's the pity it isn't.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

:


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## *caitlinsmom* (Jul 21, 2006)

unreal. I am so sorry that this happened to you. As someone who works in Daycare licensing for my state and who works with minimum standards for daycares, I can tell you that this is completely unacceptable in my state. Discipline of any kind is supposed to be age appropriate, and this sort of "report" is completely inappropriate for two year olds.

I would get her out of there ASAP... and maybe a home based DC like the other pps suggested would be better... at least, I would complain about Ms. B- especially if you've heard her speak rudely and harshly to the children. I'd also check with some of the other parents and see if they have had similar experiences with Ms. B... it might be that many other parents share your concerns, but haven't spoken up either.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

I read the OP without looking at the poster's name, but it's YOU again, Blessed! Where did you find this place? They are just plain nuts! I can't wait for you guys to get out of there.







:


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

that's crazy- I work at a preschool and believe me "shut up" is the least of our worries and usually only gets a "please don't say that again, it hurts people's feelings."


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Oh man, I am so angry for you!







: The nerve of some people!

Though I gotta say, if I was working with 2 year olds all day, I'd probably dress sloppy, expecting to get covered with playdough and whatnot. Although I would at least wash my hair.









Also, one of my good friends is childless and has an education degree, and she is excellent with kids, gentle and nurturing. One of the few people I actually trust alone with my DD.







:


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## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

You are so right to be outraged!


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)

I have to laugh a little.. They made a 2 year old sign something!? And this is school policy?!?!? What the fridge?!!?


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

oy.

In the preschools/daycares I worked in, Shut up wasnt allowed,,not from kids or teachers.

If a kid said it, they would be reminded first not to say it, then redirected. The second offense they would have gotten a serious look from the teacher and a warning.

then it would have been time out until they could calm down and talk nicely.

No way would we have ever made a 2 yr old "sign" something, or even worse, drug them to the director's office.








:


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## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

I find this remark offensive, I really do. I hold a BS in child development and an MS in child counseling. They were both obtained before I had children. So in your eyes are my degrees null and void?

Certainly I'm a different person after I had children, and when I return to work I will most definitely have a different style. But your remark implies that that childless people have no right to even hold degrees in my field. To put the shoe on the other foot, I could easily say that people with no degrees in child development have no business having children! However, I know that not to be true. It has certainly helped me be a better parent, but just like all child related professions, (which parenting is) it has more to do with personality and experience than formal education.

As many pp's as said, just b/c people have no kids does not mean they cannot relate to them or understand them. It has much more to do with their individual personality and their experience. (Didn't the OP say this is a first year teacher?) There are many talented people in child related fields who have no children. The OP had the severe misfortune of not finding one of those.

I will say the OP's situation is bad, and I would definitely look into another care situation. But I draw the line at saying the teacher is bad for the sole reason that she had the gall to get a child development degree when she had no children. That's misguided.


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## shanesmama (May 11, 2005)

I am so sorry for your family having to got through this. I was laughing reading your post becuase it is just so off the wall. Makinga 2 year old sign paperwork, I just cant' get that point out of my head.

Little kids say all types of things. My son for a while kept saying 'sh!t. He might have been saying sit, but it seemed to be out of context if that was the word he was using.

So what would they have done in that situation, expelded a 2 year old from preschool.

And truthfully I would talk to the Director, he needs to become aware of the situation, especially since you have heard her talk stern in loud rude tones to very young children, which is unexceptable in my mind. And also the fact that she was very unproffesional in talking about the child infront of the child.

I hope everything works out for you all.


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## LongIsland (Jan 11, 2004)

You should immediately speak with or write to the director. If you are not satisfied with the response/remedy, then I would make a formal complaint with the state and let them investigate the school's disciplinary procedures.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

Hey!That's nonsense!!I took care of kids way before I had my own and had a very good understanding of children and how they act and would never have done anything like that.I was not one of those clueless people taking care of a child.I took my job very seriously and gave a lot of thought to everything we did.

My sister is in school right now to be a teacher.She has no kids but she is very aware of what she does.Infact she is one of the few people I would be happy to have as an influence on my daughter.

Plus there are plenty of parents who are completely clueless.And obviously enough of them where the"sad puppy report"is acceptable.If enough parents didn't agree with that policy it wouldn't exist.After all preschools are in the business of making money.


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Raise hell. That is totally inappropriate for a two year old.
No wonder your dd told her to shut up. It really sounds like she should not be teaching preschool based on your description of her.

I'm a teacher (well, I was before I started staying home, now I'm a pt sub) and I've found working with students to put negative incidents in writing is useful for understanding what happened, what could've been done differently, etc. But only for children who have full use of language! And only for serious or repeat offenses.


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

WTF? I've known lots of excellent childless teachers and lots of terrible teachers who are parents.

Being a parent doesn't automatically give you better judgement.


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## boricuaqueen327 (Oct 11, 2004)

ugh. i feel sick just hearing this. my dd is 2 years old and if someone ever treated her like that....







i cant believe they made her SIGN a paper. not only is that completely ridiculous for the given situation, but for a TWO year old?!?! what the heck do they know about signing? this makes me feel even more worried about day cares and preschools.








for you and your baby.


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## chiro_kristin (Dec 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

I'm offended by that as well. I obtained my degree and started my pediatric practice before becoming pregnant myself. I'm also offended for people who are unable to have their own children or those who choose to wait for the right relationship before having children, which you know could be in their 40s. So they shouldn't use their talents and have the job of their dreams?

Now, to the OP, that is truly awful. I echo the other PPs. Get her out if you can, write letters, or at least see if she can be transferred to the class of one of the teachers that you know respects children. I'm so appalled that she actually had to "sign" something! I really hope this teacher is able to make a turnaround.


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## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

I'll echo the suggestion of a home-based setting. DS1 was in one from 5mos until a couple of months back. When he was deep into his hitting/biting phase, she'd let us know, but that was it. The preschool he's in now is doing pretty well for the most part - he came home with an abrasion on his back that was inflicted by one of the other kids, and they wrote it up and put it in his box so we'd know what happened. Of course, it sounds as if DS1 was being a thug, so I'm not too worried about the booboo.
On the other hand, the other night his dad asked if he needed a time-out, and he said, "No, I want to be a good boy!"







: ??? I told him that he's ALWAYS a good boy, but sometimes he forgets the proper way to behave. For some reason, that phrasing gave me the willies. Not trying to hijack the thread, but I need to have a chat with his teacher (who's an older lady) about that.


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## Kylix (May 3, 2002)

I was just about to say that I am also offended by the childless people comment. Let's focus on the preschool teacher's actions and not on the fact that she is childless. There are plenty of childless people that understand child development and can work beautifully with children.

To blessed, I honestly think a 2 year old is too young for preschool. Can you find some other form of childcare?

Kylix


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kylix* 
Can you find some other form of childcare?

Kylix

Is there some sort of in home care that would be more along the same lines as your parenting?Or any kind of co op playgroup in your area?Maybe even if you ask in the finding your tribe area of MDC.


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)

I just keep trying to picture two adults trying to make a 2 year old BABY sign something.


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## Godaime (Feb 1, 2006)

that comment about childless people shouldn't get degrees in childcare is definitely way out of line. Have you considered that there are people who worked with children or in child care facilities before they got their degrees.

now I have worked as a teacher in a few center based daycares and I never heard of such disciplinary actions as for a 2 yr old to sign a contract. That is pretty weird however I don't understand why are you so upset.

I think they might just want to bring it to your attention about what your dd said and maybe have you as the parent to talk to your dd about how thats not a very nice way to talk to her teacher.

In my classroom once there was a little boy to said shut the f. up and a little girl who said s.o.b. They were both 2 yrs old and I know they didn't understand what they said, but we didn't want other kids to catch on and say it at home, and then having their parents getting mad that their innocent children is learning this stuff at daycare. As the teachers we either write a note on their daily report, or personally tell the parents about what their child has said and to try to discourage this type of language.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Your dd is a month older than mine, she says shut up occasionally (more often "Don't talk!!" very loudly and with pointed finger) when she wants to get a point across.
I think in a case like that, that teacher would have heard some rather more choice words from me (and DP) than shut up.







:
(then she'd know exactly where she was picking up those things







)
2 years old - way to break a spirit before they even enter real school!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Godaime* 
I never heard of such disciplinary actions as for a 2 yr old to sign a contract. That is pretty weird however I don't understand why are you so upset.

I think it was a "confession", not a contract. You don't see how it would be traumatising to take a 2 yo into a room with two adults, interrogate her, and force her to "sign" something?! Sounds like Dubya & Co Kinder Kare or something.


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## ilanam (Sep 27, 2006)

Wow...I know I'm entering this a little late, but WHOA!!! While I know that you mentioned the director is clueless...it seems they may have a personnel issue here beyond just the situation with your dd. I would write a letter and request a meeting with the director to discuss this. I would also find SOMEONE to watch your dd at home until January. The director of the school you are in now should definately know that you are removing your child and WHY.

I'm still just shaking my head here...can't believe the sheer idiocy of some people....It seems that some adults believe that they sprung magically from some garden in their adult forms and were never subjected to any of the unfortunate awkwardness of childhood. Where is the empathy and compassion that one would expect to be a prerequisite in any educator???!!


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
I think it was a "confession", not a contract. You don't see how it would be traumatising to take a 2 yo into a room with two adults, interrogate her, and force her to "sign" something?! Sounds like Dubya & Co Kinder Kare or something.

















:

Yeah, its really kind of sick the more I think about it.


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## CTMOMOF2 (Aug 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mahogny* 
I find this remark offensive, I really do. I hold a BS in child development and an MS in child counseling. They were both obtained before I had children. So in your eyes are my degrees null and void?

Certainly I'm a different person after I had children, and when I return to work I will most definitely have a different style. But your remark implies that that childless people have no right to even hold degrees in my field. To put the shoe on the other foot, I could easily say that people with no degrees in child development have no business having children! However, I know that not to be true. It has certainly helped me be a better parent, but just like all child related professions, (which parenting is) it has more to do with personality and experience than formal education.

As many pp's as said, just b/c people have no kids does not mean they cannot relate to them or understand them. It has much more to do with their individual personality and their experience. (Didn't the OP say this is a first year teacher?) There are many talented people in child related fields who have no children. The OP had the severe misfortune of not finding one of those.

I will say the OP's situation is bad, and I would definitely look into another care situation. But I draw the line at saying the teacher is bad for the sole reason that she had the gall to get a child development degree when she had no children. That's misguided.

Yes Mohogany, i agree this was a rude statement. There are many childless people that are far more qualified to deal w/children than many parents i know with children!!
The woman at this nursery school is obviously disturbed! Have you reported this situation to the director? Maybe it is un-supported by them??? If it is, i would pull her out immediately and tell them exactly why!!


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
I think it was a "confession", not a contract. You don't see how it would be traumatising to take a 2 yo into a room with two adults, interrogate her, and force her to "sign" something?! Sounds like Dubya & Co Kinder Kare or something.

















: That is crazy. Yank your child out.


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## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

Yeah. I tell the dog to "shut up" sometimes when I have really had it. I however do NOT say it to the children. HOWEVER DD is also two and repeats things. I have heard her say it a few times BUT I have explained that we don't say that to people. She tried BUT she's two NOT twenty two.


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunshinestarr* 
I just keep trying to picture two adults trying to make a 2 year old BABY sign something.









Yes. It's ridiculous and so sad!








:














:

I commented last night but I'm still thinking about this and just shaking my head.

Good luck blessed. I'm not sure how I'd contain myself.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Outrageous. Just outrageous.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

I'd get a bandwagon of parents on my side. If the customer base is angry they have to take note. I doubt you'd have an easy time finding a parent there that wouldn't agree with you in this situation.

I also agree with attempting to discuss this with the director and if they do not change their policy - report them to their licensing board and let them know you're going to do it.

Even if you're leaving - I wouldn't do it quitely. Other parents would loooove to know if their school was doing something like that.


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## KnitterMama (Mar 31, 2005)

@ the sad little pencil squiggle composing your DD's "signature"

I agree with the PPs - raise hell.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.


WTF?!

In a year and a half we've NEVER gotten one single bad report EVER. From half a dozen different teachers. Nothing ever but praise and happy reports of her successes.

I can only presume that dd's behavior is reflecting the hostile and oppressive environment she's in now. My god.

I don't think homcare is the right option for her. She's too active and really has thrived in the stimulation of a classroom. She'd die of boredom at home with only one person to interact with all day, I'm afraid.

Maybe I can convince the Montessori school to take her early.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Now I have heard everything. I would pull her outta there so fast your head would spin. And I would tell every other mama and papa in the school about the "sad puppy" because if they are going to give that form to a two year girl, they are going to be pretty busy.

I'm so sorry you had to go through something so awful.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

This is just appalling







: - I would definitely get her out of there asap and yeah I'd make a real stink about it







. It appears to me that your dd does not like her new 'teacher' if we can call her that, I think you need to take this to a higher level and make sure as many people as possible know whats happening.

Some folk have a real understanding and comprehension of children this girl just doesn't seem to have it and, IMO has chosen the wrong profession - it's great to say that you work with kids etc but it takes far more effort than many people think - it's hard work - not an easy way out - maybe that's the mistake she's made - gone into this thinking it'll be a breeze and now realising that every child is different and not a little robot doing exactly what they are told all the time.

Hugs to you and your wee one and please really think about taking her out it's not doing her any good being in this environment and it's only going to get worse. January is not too far away and taking her out for a couple of months won't do much harm, make sure that you have lots of fun things planned that you can do together and then send her to the Montessori in January - well, I would like to think that I would do that, good luck


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I am so sorry!

On the other hand, don't assume the Montessori school would be better in this dept. It MAY be, but not necessarily. My nephew was in a Montessori that was very $, looked like the real thing (it was lovely), but when I heard firsthand how the teacher disciplined him, I was very surprised-- and not in a good way!

I hope you find a better situation! In the meantime, can she be transferred to another room?


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

This is just completely unacceptable. I used to teach preschool, primarily the 3 year olds class. Even at 3, we considered them _babies_- not small adversaries to be dominated.

My DD is nearly two. In your situation, I swear I would use up all of my sick time and vacation time- even take a leave of absence- and make the financial sacrifice, before I'd ever send my DD back to a place where two adults took her into a room, told her she was bad and forced her sweet baby hand around a pencil to sign that she agreed that she was bad too.


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## rainy32 (Apr 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 

I don't think homcare is the right option for her. She's too active and really has thrived in the stimulation of a classroom. She'd die of boredom at home with only one person to interact with all day, I'm afraid.



Blessed, homecare doesn't mean one person with your dd - my ds is in a terrific home day care with 4 other kids - its a ixed age day care, he is 22 months, the dcp watches her 24 mo dd, a 4 year-old girl, a 14 month boy, and a 4 month boy. ds gets tons of interaction, in a home setting, with a person I trust (and whose parenting philosophy I share). you might not find an ideal home day care right away - but your dd will get interaction and won't have her spirit broken in the way that you are describing.

Seriously, I'd pull her out of that place.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:


I have to respectfully disagree with that. I have known many teachers who started out childless and who are fine teachers. Also, what if the person cannot have children, but loves them and wants to teach them? Should that person be banned simply because of having no children?

I didn't have children for the first 6 yrs of my marriage. I was told I could not have any. I taught a teen class, with my husband, at our church. I suppose we should not been allowed to do that either?


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.


WTF?!

In a year and a half we've NEVER gotten one single bad report EVER. From half a dozen different teachers. Nothing ever but praise and happy reports of her successes.

I can only presume that dd's behavior is reflecting the hostile and oppressive environment she's in now. My god.

I don't think homcare is the right option for her. She's too active and really has thrived in the stimulation of a classroom. She'd die of boredom at home with only one person to interact with all day, I'm afraid.

Maybe I can convince the Montessori school to take her early.

That describes nearly all of my preschool kids! None of them listen well all the time, none of them just go sit down in circle time the first time you tell them and sit still the whole time we're reading and doing activities. I agree that the environment is hostile and oppressive. Can you ask her if she would rather stay home with you til January or keep going to her school? Sometimes when kids are labeled as the "problem child" by the teacher they know it and don't like being there.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Wow. Just wow.

Now we are asking two year olds to do what old time Kindergarten teachers barely asked of 5 yr olds. This is good new for the makers of Ritalin. In fact, why don't we just start dispensing Ritalin with epidurals.


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## margitmama (Nov 19, 2005)

Blessed, if my memory serves me, you had encountered some serious problems with a previous preschool or daycare - something about a teacher physically restraining a child.







:
This is not the same place, is it?
So tough, and I agree with pp's, I would not want my child in that school for one more minute. I would be raging mad.


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.



Well if this is the way they talk to little 2 year old kids, no wonder they have problems, I don't even understand their code language and I'm a college educated adult! I bet Ms. B told DD to put on her listening ears and DD was like Huh? Wha?









Anyway, yeah I'd try to take as much leave from work as possible to keep her out of there till you get into some better place. Do you qualify for FMLA or something like that?


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## traceface (Feb 17, 2003)

Quote:

In fact, why don't we just start dispensing Ritalin with epidurals.










blessed the sad puppy report and toddler scribble signature are truly over the top. it is so ridiculous, almost any parent you tell that too will have to shake their head with dismay


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## celia (Apr 22, 2005)

_I bet Ms. B told DD to put on her listening ears and DD was like Huh? Wha?_










That poor sweet baby.


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## claras_mom (Apr 25, 2006)

Blessed, home care doesn't mean one-on-one, necessarily. A dcp can be licensed for 6 or 12, if memory serves. There's plenty of social interaction.

ETA - Between the other kids dd plays with at her home-based daycare and all the cool things to do, we sometimes have a hard time getting her to leave at the end of the day. It's just way too much fun. I have to factor in a 10-20 minute transition where I play with her and with other kids.


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## chiro_kristin (Dec 31, 2004)

I'm wondering what the teacher thinks blessed is supposed to do with that "oops" report. Spank a 2 year old for not using her listening ears?


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Your dd only said "shut up"?
She should hear what ds said the other day!







And 2 yo have no clue when they are saying a socially inappropriate word..they are just exploring the language.


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## Max'sMama (Apr 3, 2004)

I was one of those 'childless people working with kids, without my degree' and I did GREAT. Offers of nanny jobs and was 'responsible enough for parents to trust me to take their kids home if they were going to be late at work (many kids of MD's at the center I worked in). So education or lack thereof has nothing to do with ability in my opinion.

To OP-can you work your work hours/your husbands work hours to allow more frequent drop-ins at the daycare? Maybe at circle time? At times the staff declares to be problem areas? Could you have friends/family drop-in as well? Anyone who may be able to report back to you the actions of the staff and the actions of your child. In the center I worked in we had it set so that parents could see in through a window (staff knew they were looking but kids really didn't see them). We also had an area that parents could watch and listen to the kids, the staff, etc without staff in the classroom knowing. It was great and really kept staff on their 'best behavior' even though there was never an issue, the knowledge that we could be watched and not know it - GREAT incentive to be fabulous all the time.

Is is possible that the recent treatment your daughter has endured, IS making her behavior less than desirable







: ? Something along the lines of she is getting cr*pped on by her teacher and so she is acting out as a result? Even if the acting out is not out of line, but apparently the teacher wants a bunch of automatons not toddlers







:

I agree that if there is a way to get a different teacher or a different classroom you should really pursue it! Your child has been labeled by this teacher and the director and unfortunately they probably won't be able to see much good out of her, no matter how fabulous she is.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

*omfg i'm so speechless thats shocking







*


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## eckmannl (Nov 9, 2004)

That is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard about a daycare situation! Making a two year old sign something!!!??????
There's no way I'd let my kid in the same room as that woman ever again. I'd also talk to every other parent I could get a hold of to see what they think about it too.
How horrible.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

: thats horrible!


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Can you send a 'Sad Teacher Dog' report back to the teacher:

1. Teacher does not understand age appropriate toddler behavior.

2. Teacher does not properly explain terminology.

Please sign and send back to parent at pick up today.









Check out the Montessori school very well. I have issues with one of the teachers at the local Montessori school at the 18 month - 3 year level for similar reasons.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Dh and dd toured the Montessori school today. Dh was really happy with how flexible they were. Like in one class, the kids were taking their naps early because they were tired that morning. And they didn't talk about putting dd in a classroom defined only by her age, but rather asked us to come with her for a half day (!) while she trialed the different rooms. Whichever one seemed the best fit would be hers!

Wow. Major difference.

Today when I dropped dd off two of her classmates were there. These are children whom I've known for 18 months and who know me well. These are happy, bright, interactive kids who normally rush over to greet me, sit with dd and I while I read to her, and are talkative and inquisitive.

Today these kids stood quietly over by the toys. They didn't smile or respond when I greeted them. Dd and I sat down, as I always have done when I drop off. She sat stiffly in my lap, just rigid. When I asked if she wanted to read a story she looked over at Miss B and didn't respond. I asked her again and she walked over slowly to the book rack, took a book out while watching Miss B, then ran quickly over and leaped into my lap, as though she was doing something wrong.

After we read I got up to leave and said good-bye to the other kids. They just looked at me sorrowfully. I said "Poor sad babies!" I made dh pick up dd 3 hours early today.

So I _think_ we're going to be able to transition into Montessori pretty quickly. I'm definitely going to write a letter to the Licensing Bureau.

Oh please, I hope we get through this.


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## boricuaqueen327 (Oct 11, 2004)

to you and your sweet baby. i hope you are able to get her out of there soon.


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 

To be honest, when I found out that dd had told her to shut up, my first reaction was a surge of relief and pride







:. I *was happy to hear that dd was centered enough to be maintaining a sense of self in spite of the awful negativity of this woman. I'm quite certain that she deserved to be told to shut up*







.

totally!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.


WTF?!

Dude isnt that the definition of a two year old?????? She's so gonna get canned.

I am a big fan of Montessori, and if you like the school you toured, go for it. THere are some whackjob Montessorans, but on the whole it'sa program that lets the kids channel their wiggles into activities that benefit them and keep them quite engaged.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Can you send a 'Sad Teacher Dog' report back to the teacher:

1. Teacher does not understand age appropriate toddler behavior.

2. Teacher does not properly explain terminology.

Please sign and send back to parent at pick up today.

















:


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *margitmama* 
Blessed, if my memory serves me, you had encountered some serious problems with a previous preschool or daycare - something about a teacher physically restraining a child.







:
This is not the same place, is it?

Yes, this is the same place. Here's the link about that encounter.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...elp+me+process

I'll include this information in my report to the licensing bureau.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.


WTF?!

In a year and a half we've NEVER gotten one single bad report EVER. From half a dozen different teachers. Nothing ever but praise and happy reports of her successes.

I can only presume that dd's behavior is reflecting the hostile and oppressive environment she's in now. My god.

I don't think homcare is the right option for her. She's too active and really has thrived in the stimulation of a classroom. She'd die of boredom at home with only one person to interact with all day, I'm afraid.

Maybe I can convince the Montessori school to take her early.

I think now would be the perfect time for an unexpected visit to your dd's preschool. Go to observe both child and teacher. If they ahave windows up front, park across the street. Try to approach the building without being seen because your arrival will be announced throughout the center and this may cause the teacher to change behavior.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

I shudder to think what her behavior is when we aren't around, because even right in front of us she raises her voice and snaps at the children.

For instance, once when I picked up dd the kids were coming back into the room from another play area. Dd's friend ran over to a rack of toys and Miss B shouted (literally) "Hannah! Leave those toys ALONE! I'm trying to clean UP!"

Honestly, if you heard someone at Target or the grocery store speaking in that way to their child, everyone would turn around and stare, shake their heads, and maybe comment to the parent. It was _that_ inappropriate. Both dh and I have witnessed this on different occasions.

On another occasion dd was on a rocking horse on the playground. When she saw me she leaped off and ran toward me. Her friend, Hannah, jumped on the horse which upset dd because she felt like she lost her turn. Dd started crying. I went over and crouched by Hannah - whom I know well and who is a sweet, generous little girl. I was trying to explain to Hannah that dd was upset about losing her turn, and would she mind if dd got on the back with her so they could both ride? Normally this would be a simple solution with these kids and the girls wouls have ended up laughing together on the ride.

Instead Miss B starts bellowing from across the playground "Dd! Stop crying! Big girls don't cry! Stop it!"







: Of course Dd cries harder. Miss B then threw her head back and loudly laughed, mocking dd's tears! I snapped at her "I don't see what you think is so funny!" and she mumble something about 'making light of the situation'.









It's clear that this is far more than just inexperience at this point. This woman has serious issues, as far as I'm concerned, and I already know that the director will not respond to our concerns.

I'll let the state board handle it.


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:

Instead Miss B starts bellowing from across the playground "Dd! Stop crying! Big girls don't cry! Stop it!" Of course Dd cries harder. Miss B then threw her head back and loudly laughed, mocking dd's tears! I snapped at her "I don't see what you think is so funny!" and she mumble something about 'making light of the situation'.
Holy carp, this alone is a major red flag...this woman should NOT be working with children. The personality changes that you mentioned earlier is really worriesome. Good for you for contacting the state board about this.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

You are right be angry. What a bizarre way to deal with normal 2-year-old behvaior. I'm sorry your DD had to experience that, and I hope you find a new school for her soon.


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## Kaitnbugsmom (Dec 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
I think now would be the perfect time for an unexpected visit to your dd's preschool. Go to observe both child and teacher. If they ahave windows up front, park across the street. Try to approach the building without being seen because your arrival will be announced throughout the center and this may cause the teacher to change behavior.


do they allow this? every daycare, preschool and school my kids & nieces have ever been in has been a locked facility. You can't just 'drop in' you have to come in, stand under the camera or at the desk and show your ID and state your purpose. They then call the classroom to verify your stated purpose...


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaitnbugsmom* 
do they allow this? every daycare, preschool and school my kids & nieces have ever been in has been a locked facility. You can't just 'drop in' you have to come in, stand under the camera or at the desk and show your ID and state your purpose. They then call the classroom to verify your stated purpose...

How can they have an open-door policy?

We don't have a locked front door as we have a receptionist at the front desk during business hours (she doesn't leave unless one of the staff let her break or go potty). We wouldn't let anyone passed the desk if it weren't a parent. If it is a relative they must stay at the front desk and wait for a teacher to bring the child out (after they have been identified as someone who can see/pick up the child).

Every staff member knows every parent of every child we have in the building (we are a small center of 45 children). We are all introduced to new parents and children so we know them as well.

Back On topic:
I think it would be an excellent idea to 1)make an unannounced visit and 2)file a complaint (while yo uare still enrolled with the center so as not to look like a disgruntled customer and to hopefully prevent the director/staff from denying these accusations.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Blessed, I'm so sorry about your experience with this really out-of-whack teacher.

As to whether childless people should be allowed to work with kids, I LOVED other peoples' kids 'till I had my own, and was an early childhood teacher; now I'm so focused on my own I have little interest in other kids (I'm interested in my friends and their lives, which of course includes their kids -- I just mean I have no interest in "working with" anyone else's child), and I think I'd be a lousy teacher now. Maybe that'll change when my kids are grown, or maybe I'll just focus on my grandkids ...


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## ilanam (Sep 27, 2006)

Hang tough Blessed....and I really think that a visit would be good. The preschools that my daughter went to always allowed for parents to drop in unannounced (any other type of policy would really worry me!), but you did have to go by the receptionist and you would be stopped if you were not a parent (small school, as well).

I think it's obvious that something needs to be done about this teacher, at least so that other parents can make an informed choice about their children's situations.

keep in mind that there are bad teachers (and people) in every philosophy...Montesorri, Waldorf...it doesn't matter the institution...just trust your gut and the universe will provide your little angel with an angel of her own! Good luck!!


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Instead Miss B starts bellowing from across the playground "Dd! Stop crying! Big girls don't cry! Stop it!"







: Of course Dd cries harder. Miss B then threw her head back and loudly laughed, mocking dd's tears! I snapped at her "I don't see what you think is so funny!" and she mumble something about 'making light of the situation'.










With you _right there_. That's crazy!


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Blessed, I'm so sorry about your experience with this really out-of-whack teacher.

As to whether childless people should be allowed to work with kids, I LOVED other peoples' kids 'till I had my own, and was an early childhood teacher; now I'm so focused on my own I have little interest in other kids (I'm interested in my friends and their lives, which of course includes their kids -- I just mean I have no interest in "working with" anyone else's child), and I think I'd be a lousy teacher now. Maybe that'll change when my kids are grown, or maybe I'll just focus on my grandkids ...


You are lucky, my MIL (great woman) did special education, she felt the opposite... she spent all this time and energy on other children, she had no energy for her own.

This daycare stinks... change


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks everyone. Your support has been so very appreciated







.

Dh talked to several other teacher (who dd did great with in previous classes) and also with another parent. Although he didn't speak with the director personally, she apparently overheard portions of his conversation with the other parent. Perhaps because of feedback from these conversations, the teacher has been very obviously trying to turn over a new leaf.

Today we sent dd to school without diapers, and I was truly terrified that Miss B would turn this into an awful experience for her. But, maybe because she really is already potty trained, there were no problems. Dd used the potty, had no accidents, and things went well.

So now we're pretty much greenlighted to move to the Montessori school. I still have all of my original reservations which have to do with not wanting to disrupt dd from the familiarity of her longterm close friends and environment of her school.

Maybe Miss B is trainable? She seems to be doing better.

Thanks for listening.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Benji'sMom* 
I bet Ms. B told DD to put on her listening ears and DD was like Huh? Wha?









This made me crack up as well







.

I had to just chip in, friday's circle time activity was "discussing community helpers". You know, like police, fire fighters, etc.

Okay, okay. Probably this is fine. But I keep picturing a room full of restless, active 2 yo's being forced to sit absolutely still with their 'listening ears on', while Miss B goes on about the civic responsiblity







.


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## napua (Feb 1, 2006)

Wow, I can't believe what they are expecting of two year olds.







I would not want my children in a place like that.


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## tuscany123 (Feb 15, 2004)

*This woman is a complete idiot, and railroading a 2 yr old into the directors office and forcing her to "sign" a confession borders on child abuse to me!

Last week, my DD went to the Y for her 1st gymnastics lesson. One of the little girls spit on another. The instructor handled it so well. She took the girls aside, and told her "we don't spit" (I like the use of "we" rather than "you"), and made her sit out a turn. At the end of the lesson, the girls get stamps for how well they listened, no matter what, they all get one. They can get 4. This little girl only got one, and she was brokenhearted, and began crying. The instructor very firmly, but gently explained to her why she only got one stamp, and said if she did better next week, she could get 4.

Your childs teacher needs to go back to school and learn how to be a human being!*


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## Phoebe (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

I don't know about that.
That's a bit out of line don't you think?

I am appalled at having a 2 year old sign something and at her being dragged down to the principals office. That is way way way overboard! I'd be super bummed too. I would want the teacher to say something to my child about it though. I do that with my own 2 year old at home. I don't just assume that 2 year olds say that stuff and then blow it off. Saying "we don't say 'shut up' to people. That's rude. Can you say you say you are sorry, please" would have been sufficient. Certainly not the sad puppy report. But man, the school system is what it is. They have to have a method of dealing with dicipline. The sad puppy report may not be the best option and that may be someting to discuss with the administration. But there has to be a system.

I would definately have a talk with someone about this method. I would also talk to my child about why it is not nice to speak to adults (or anyone else) that way as well.

Good luck and I hope you can get it worked out!


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Last night dd kept saying 'mama, I don't want Miss B for my teacher. I want her to go away.'









Today when I dropped her off, I sat with her for awhile as usual. They brought the breakfast snack and the kids went over to their table. All of the little chairs had kids' names on except one. Dd went to the chair, pointed at it and said 'where my name, mama?' I pointed it out to Miss B and said that dd's nametag must've fallen off.

She said "_No, I took it off yesterday because she wasn't listening to me_."

Oh mamas. I can't even tell you...I can't even describe...

I said "That is the most cruel and inhumane thing I've ever heard. I am not leaving this room until that nametag is back on her chair." She said "I'll have to make her a new one."

I said "I'll wait."

She walked over and pulled her nametag out from the top of a bookcase and angrily stuck it to her chair. Dd stood there with her head down, just too sad to know what to do. After I comforted her, she cheered up enough for me to leave (I know, I know. I HAD to be at work this morning for a surgery...







) I left and cried all the way to work.

After my surgery, I immediately called the director at Montessori and explained everything to her. She was just silent, then said with her voice cracking "my heart is just on the floor right now."

Dd starts at Montessori in the morning.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

Thank goodness you found a new school for her. That other teacher is positively evil. Poor bug


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## nikisager (Oct 25, 2005)

holy crapola, I would complain above her head about the age apropriate ways of dealing with children,kwim?.....


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## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

I am so glad you found a good place to take her!!!







: what I think about the rest of what that teacher has done.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

oh blessed...







for you and for your sweet daughter.

the actions and words of that teacher are absolutely reprehensible. the whole situation is horrible but the thing that got me the most was your description of how she angrily slapped your dd's name tag onto her chair. totally unprofessional, manipulative and unacceptable behavior. if she acts like that when there is a parent in the classroom, i shudder to think of what she does and says to the kids when she isn't being supervised. she sounds like she is downright abusive to the children.

i am glad that you were able to get a spot for your dd at the montessori school.

here's to no more sad puppy reports!


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

She's CRAZY. That teacher is just CRAZY.

I am loving that Montessori director right now, but YOU above all because you are one rockin' Mama to take care of your daughter's needs like this, and advocate so hard for her.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Last night dd kept saying 'mama, I don't want Miss B for my teacher. I want her to go away.'









Today when I dropped her off, I sat with her for awhile as usual. They brought the breakfast snack and the kids went over to their table. All of the little chairs had kids' names on except one. Dd went to the chair, pointed at it and said 'where my name, mama?' I pointed it out to Miss B and said that dd's nametag must've fallen off.

She said "_No, I took it off yesterday because she wasn't listening to me_."

Oh mamas. I can't even tell you...I can't even describe...

I said "That is the most cruel and inhumane thing I've ever heard. I am not leaving this room until that nametag is back on her chair." She said "I'll have to make her a new one."

I said "I'll wait."

She walked over and pulled her nametag out from the top of a bookcase and angrily stuck it to her chair. Dd stood there with her head down, just too sad to know what to do. After I comforted her, she cheered up enough for me to leave (I know, I know. I HAD to be at work this morning for a surgery...







) I left and cried all the way to work.

After my surgery, I immediately called the director at Montessori and explained everything to her. She was just silent, then said with her voice cracking "my heart is just on the floor right now."

Dd starts at Montessori in the morning.


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## cryspanimal (Mar 21, 2006)

I have been following this thread and I am so glad that your DD will not have to be in that terrible environment anymore! You have done a great job!

I hope that you continue to let the director and your state liscensing board know about these incidents. I feel sorry for all the children that are having to work with this cruel person.







:


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## Max'sMama (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
She said "_No, I took it off yesterday because she wasn't listening to me_."

Oh mamas. I can't even tell you...I can't even describe...

I said "That is the most cruel and inhumane thing I've ever heard. I am not leaving this room until that nametag is back on her chair." She said "I'll have to make her a new one."

I said "I'll wait."

She was just silent, then said with her voice cracking "my heart is just on the floor right now."

I agree with the 'new' director (montessori). Mine is too.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE report this school/teacher to the licensing board. They need to know what is happening and the families with kids still with this teacher have the right to know how the teacher 'deals' with TWO YEAR OLDS that (gasp) don't listen.

There is no excuse for behavior like this from a 'teacher' that is just cruel. A two year old is still such a baby. I was thinking of your situation when ds was playing in the sandbox yesterday, he was walking up to it and in the moment I glimpsed him, I saw a baby, not a toddler, not a child.....a baby. For the sake of all the other 'babies' your daughters classroom, please report them.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Max'sMama* 
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE report this school/teacher to the licensing board. They need to know what is happening and the families with kids still with this teacher have the right to know how the teacher 'deals' with TWO YEAR OLDS that (gasp) don't listen.










:

Oh blessed...







to you and your dd. Reading about the nametag incident makes my heart hurt. So glad your dd will be at a new school...but seriously, you should call every parent you know in the old school and let them know what happened, as well as reporting the school and teacher to the licensing board. This is just unconscionable behavior on the part of a childcare worker.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm so glad you found a new school! That teacher is horrible!!







:


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

What a horrible woman. I'm so sorry you had to leave your baby there at all today. Thank God there's a good place to take her in the morning.

Definitely write the liscensing bureau. I would also contact any other parents that you know from that class. They have a right to know how sad their kids are in that classroom.

Jenn


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

this thread has me close to tears! blessed- i'm so glad things have worked for the best for your dd. please follow through on reporting the teacher & site to the licensing board. their behavior has been truly appalling.

not that it hasn't been brought up enough already, but i started working with kids when i was 21. I had dd when i was 34. That would've been a long time with no career







:


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Note from today (not a Sad Puppy, just an 'oops'







: ):


> Dd had a little trouble using her listening ears and sitting still at circle time today. She had to be "special friend" several times and has continued not to listen and be kind.


WTF?!


Does anyone else find these little Dolores Umbridge-like cutesie-pie terms (e.g., "sad puppy," "listening ears," "special friend") to be really nauseating? Listening ears??? My dd just asked, "As opposed to the ears you go to the bathroom with?"

Christ, I hate to see what she'd call, say, the Rwandan genocide.


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
Does anyone else find these little Dolores Umbridge-like cutesie-pie terms (e.g., "sad puppy," "listening ears," "special friend") to be really nauseating? Listening ears??? My dd just asked, "As opposed to the ears you go to the bathroom with?"

Christ, I hate to see what she'd call, say, the Rwandan genocide.










Yes, totally.
Blessed, I am speechless about the latest incident. Man, I hope the licensing board can take care of this. I can't imagine how you felt leaving her there...but yay for the Montessori director!


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## hipcoolmama (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
Does anyone else find these little Dolores Umbridge-like cutesie-pie terms (e.g., "sad puppy," "listening ears," "special friend") to be really nauseating? Listening ears??? My dd just asked, "As opposed to the ears you go to the bathroom with?"

Listening ears??? My dd just asked, "As opposed to the ears you go to the bathroom with?"










Yes, some of those over the top terms are silly, if not ridiculous. I think they can be confusing to kids. I like plain old English when talking to kids. No "dumbing it down" so to speak.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Good for you. That teacher is appalling. I would sent a written letter to the school and the licensing Board and post what you have said on every Mother's Club Board in your area. Of course, I'm vindictive liike that.


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## tuscany123 (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm so glad you found a spot in the Montessori school for your darling child. I hope her former teacher gets the reprimand she deserves. God bless you


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

What DOES "special friend" mean in this context???

Blessed, I'm glad you found a better place for your daughter. I had to go to a daycare like this crappy one when I was about 6 and it was HORRIBLE. My parents weren't as on top of things are you are though.


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## cornflower_3 (Jan 15, 2006)

*


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## MonkeyQueen (Mar 12, 2006)

I can't beileve someone could treat a 2 year old that way! Just thinking aboutt it makes me hot under the collar. Good for you not just letting it slide.

-Melanie


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## rubelin (Feb 3, 2002)

my heart aches for the poor babies left in that woman's class...

I know you are thrilled to be done with it, but please send something to the liscensing board to help out the others who can't leave for the wonderful Montessori.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Thank goodness you've found a solution so quickly - you are a fantastic mom







, what Ms B has done to your daughter is UNACCEPTABLE, it just makes me SO mad, please still report this teacher/school to the licensing board, with this sort of person she's just going to start picking on another child and make their life intolerable. I am delighted for you and your superbabe, you'll notice an immediate change I am sure.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Geez thats sad, I hope she gets fired as clearly she does not like kids nor need to be around them. Sounds like your DD is a good judge of character and good for her for telling her to 'shut up' what a nut







your poor DD.


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## Primigravida (May 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 

So Miss B starts going on about how inappropriate dd is (in front of dd, remember), and how she has no _idea_ where dd could have possibly picked up on such language because "we certainly don't talk that way here, Mr. blessed! We asked dd to tell us who taught her that, but she refused!"







:

Around this time dh looks down at the paper, and he sees that it is signed by the preschool director on one line _and 'signed' by dd on another_ (a sad little pencil squiggle on a line marked 'signature of child'














) !!


Un-freakin' believable!
Someone would've had to hold my mule!







:


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## OriginalGirlGamer (Jan 11, 2006)

I just read through all of this and now I have a  expression on my face.
2 years old?? My kid is almost 2 and I feel sorry for the human that would treat him like that. I gave up fighting years ago, but I do think I would regress. WOW. O_O
What kind of freak makes a 2 year old 'sign' a confessional?? I'm glad you got her out of there, that's insane. I hear 2 year olds say WAY worse than 'shut up' when we're at the park, and what 2 year old can sit still? I'm still shaking my head.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Oh, blessed, reading this thread, I was getting so heartsick, and quite literally sick to my stomach. When I started reading the nametag story, I was getting that about-to-vomit feeling. Then, you swooped in and saved your little girl, and I had super hero music playing in my head. When you said she starts at Montessori in the morning, you officially became Super Mama. It was like you had put on your cape and flown in! Oh, how my heart swells to think of it!

My dw is a professional Preschool Teacher. I truly have a great deal of respect for her and her work. It is hard, hard work, and she isn't perfect, but she is amazing.

She works in a great childcare center ("daycare" is a term no longer accepted within the field of early childhood education and care..."childcare" is the appropriate term, or "preschool" if it is a more educational setting) with a play-centered but educational, preschool approach. It is unionized, which I think overall is really much better for the children because the staff turnover is low and staff are well taken care of. For example, the teachers take sick days when they need it and can go to the doctor because they have medical benefits, which ultimately reduces the spread of illness. The teachers also receive more support in advancing their education.

However, even in this wonderful environment, there are some lemons. Because it is unionized, there is one teacher who has seniority and thus is ever-more difficult to fire. But she really should not be working with children. She is completely inappropriate, very similarly to the so-called "teacher" in your dd's class.

dw and I previously alternated our schedules, and ds came to work with me, so that ds didn't need to be in childcare. However, eventually we decided to have him go to my dw's childcare very, very part-time. But as soon as he aged into this woman's classroom, we withdrew him. Because he is at an age where I can't find a way to have him at work with me and still do any work at all, I have temporarily started working nights. It is really hard, but we can't find another center in town we are comfortable with, and I wouldn't let that woman near my child. I won't even let him in the classroom right next to hers, as there is too much interaction.

I have the advantage of inside information about this woman because my dw is in the same building (though down the hall). If I were a parent who didn't have this info, I'd have some concerns, but might be inclined to write them off. Folks, if there is anyone else out there struggling with this type of issue, trust your instincts. People that messed up can't be trained, though they might find a way to look good in front of you. I know this because the bad teacher at dw's school is under work-probation due to a bad evaluation, and whenever the director's boss is around, she acts like a completely different person. She totally puts on a show.

Also, my dw has a co-teacher who had a temp position in another licensed preschool in town. It was a religious preschool, and lots of folks in town used it because they assumed it was thus trustworthy. We were over for dinner at this teacher's house the other night, and she told us she lasted exactly one week there because she couldn't stand to see the way the children were being treated. They were constantly being yelled at. During prayer, if one made any noises, a teacher would slap her hand over the child's mouth and hold it there to keep the child from talking. They even hit a child in front of this teacher. It is absolutely illegal stuff in terms of licensing, etc. I was horrified and asked if she reported. She was a lot younger then, and can be quite timid as is, and she admited that she did not report but did spread the word...and then a few years later the preschool was sold. Report, report, report! For the sake of all those other little children. What you see is way less than what probably is happening behind closed doors. And since the "sad puppy" report itself originated from the director's office, you have little reason to trust that proper action will be taken.


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## nattybo (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:

Today when I dropped her off, I sat with her for awhile as usual. They brought the breakfast snack and the kids went over to their table. All of the little chairs had kids' names on except one. Dd went to the chair, pointed at it and said 'where my name, mama?' I pointed it out to Miss B and said that dd's nametag must've fallen off.

She said "No, I took it off yesterday because she wasn't listening to me."

Oh mamas. I can't even tell you...I can't even describe...

I said "That is the most cruel and inhumane thing I've ever heard. I am not leaving this room until that nametag is back on her chair." She said "I'll have to make her a new one."

I said "I'll wait."

She walked over and pulled her nametag out from the top of a bookcase and angrily stuck it to her chair. Dd stood there with her head down, just too sad to know what to do.










This woman is an abonimation.

I don't care that Ms B. "only" has a B.A. in early childhood education. I have met hundreds of people whom have no degree yet understand and have the ability to empathize with children. Advanced degrees and offspring do not necessarily add up to equal a quality early childhood teacher/care provider; helpful, yes, but not required.

Yay Momma Blessed for getting your DD out of there. But my heart still aches for the poor sad babies that are left behind.


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## Mom2M (Sep 23, 2006)

Wow, I just read through this. Great job getting her out quickly!
I just started to cry thinking of her standing there waiting for her name tag!
Deb


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

I'm sure this has been responded to already, considering there are 7 pages of posts between this comment and my reply, but...

I am very offended by this statement. I know many excellent teachers and childcare providers that were excellent right from their first year out of college, with or without children of their own. I think I have done a pretty good job myself during the first 8 childless years of my career, as do the parents of the hundreds of students I have taught and the principals and school boards I have worked for. And the teaching awards have been a pretty good indicator of my success too.

Anyway, I'm rambling because i'm annoyed... Carry on!


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

And perhaps a gay man should not be allowed to be a couples' counselor/therapist for straight couples until he's had a relationship with a woman? Or maybe African-American teachers shouldn't be allowed to teach in predominantly white schools, because they can't possibly understand Caucasian kids? So I guess we just require that all the childless people who are working hard to become teachers go out and copulate immediately? Or what if you have an infant...but you want to teach 5th graders? I guess you should be barred.

There are plenty of wretched teachers out there who DO have children, and plenty of good ones who don't.







:


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

Now that I've read the whole thread, I'll respond to what it's really about! I seriouly got goosebumps and breathed a sigh of relief when you said she was starting Montessori. I hope that woman either gets her act together or finds a new profession. I wonder how the other kids are responding to her? Good luck with the new preschool!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

It's scary that the director didn't get rid of Miss B herself -- it may have something to do with the bachelor's degree, I don't know. When I worked in early childhood, directors had a hard time finding "degreed" teachers, because the centers I worked in didn't have good pay or benefits -- yet the licensing authority required a certain number of staff in each center to have degrees. That's no excuse for allowing such a sicko to be with kids.

Blessed, I'm so happy you got your darling out of there!


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## lml41981 (Jun 14, 2006)

My heart broke when I read the name tag story. You don't cease to exist simply because you might have a hard time listening to someone (who is being mean to you, no less), and that is exactly what her actions said to your daughter. "You are not worthy of existence, so I'm taking your name off the chair to pretend you don't exist."

What a hateful, mean-spirited woman.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Thank you mamas. This has been so difficult and I have second guessed myself every step of the way. The unwavering consistency and the fervor of all the support I've received here have helped me to stand firm and _know_ that I was doing the right thing







.

We had an exit interview with the assistant director (who we like better anyway, and who is more likely to actually hear and learn from our reports) on our way out last evening. She was sad (she's known and cared for dd for the past 18 months), apologetic, appropriately shocked at the nametag incident, and *cautiously* acknowleged that Miss B probably had been given a classroom too early in her career, without appropriate oversight and assitance from more experienced teachers. She stated that there had been some recognition of the problems we refered to, and that they were in the process of implementing a more active supervisory policy for Miss B and the other new teachers.

Dh wrote a wonderful 2 page letter to the director, detailing the events and squarely implicating their "placing of all new teacher in the 2's and 3's classroom without significant oversight as the major contributing factor to the experiences we have had and our eventual decision to withdraw."

I didn't get the chance to mention that during our phone converstation yesterday morning, the Montessori director had gone on to say "blessed, if you want to go and get your daughter _right now_ and bring her here, that would be fine. You need to feel that dd is safe, and obviously you can't feel that way right now given the present circumstances.'









She also ended by saying 'I don't presume to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but I'd like to strongly encourage you to consider making formal complaints about these concerns. I'd be happy to provide you with contact information if you need it.'

Wow.

Finally, dd is currently at Montessori. I took the day off to help her transition, and stayed with her for about 3 hours this morning. What a difference! The place is filled with laughter and joy. We walked around stiffly at first, and dd was afraid to touch anything. I was too







. The other place was so rigid with rules about everything. Here, if a child wanted her breakfast biscuit on the playground, well sure. Why not? If a child wants to curl up and nap during moring session, well, she must be tired, sweet thing. I think dd and I both felt like liberated prisoners walking outside in the sunshine for the first time after spending years inside a dark dungeon.

Thank you again, everyone. Your support made it possible for me to see straight and true, and to do what I needed to do to protect my precious dc







.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Finally, dd is currently at Montessori. I took the day off to help her transition, and stayed with her for about 3 hours this morning. What a difference! The place is filled with laughter and joy. We walked around stiffly at first, and dd was afraid to touch anything. I was too







. The other place was so rigid with rules about everything. Here, if a child wanted her breakfast biscuit on the playground, well sure. Why not? If a child wants to curl up and nap during moring session, well, she must be tired, sweet thing. I think dd and I both felt like liberated prisoners walking outside in the sunshine for the first time after spending years inside a dark dungeon.


Thats wonderful and made me cry, I am sure your DD will be fine, and has so much love and support she will soon move on in a happoer environment. Lucky she DID say shut up and not just give up like some of the other sad kids left in the class, more power to you to empowering your DD and hope she will always speak up for what is wrong, whether she is 2 or 22.

I had to laugh at what she said though, my DD is also 1/04 and it sounds exactly like something she would say!


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm so happy you found her a new place


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## Eaglevoice (Nov 30, 2004)

You are a good mama.


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## Wolfmeis (Nov 16, 2004)

:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
he other place was so rigid with rules about everything. Here, if a child wanted her breakfast biscuit on the playground, well sure. Why not? If a child wants to curl up and nap during moring session, well, she must be tired, sweet thing. I think dd and I both felt like liberated prisoners walking outside in the sunshine for the first time after spending years inside a dark dungeon.

Thank you again, everyone. Your support made it possible for me to see straight and true, and to do what I needed to do to protect my precious dc







.


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## ilanam (Sep 27, 2006)

I am so sorry you and your family have had to go through this...Just absolutly unbelievable and so sad.

Cheers to amazing Moms (blessed) and Dads out there that just won't allow their children to be treated like little monsters instead of the amazing, pure Lightbeams that they are. Here's to new begininings all around (hopefully you can "help" dd's former (YAY!!) teacher on her way to a new career that she may actually enjoy!).


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

blessed, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for getting your dd into the Montessori school! Your dd is the same age as mine, and I have been crying for her, reading these posts. I know your fears about daycare transitions, and I agree, daycare hopping can be bad for kids. BUT this place is over the top. The fact that they have not immediately fired Ms. B screams that the entire place is dysfunctional. All other instances aside (any of which would have made me pull my dd, in all likelihood), the fact that the children just stood by the toys quietly, that your dd was afraid to get a book, that just really makes me think there is some abuse going on. It's just wrong. That is not in any way normal 2 year old behavior. Please, please, please contact the licensing board. I would be appalled if I was a parent at the school and didn't know about these things and discovered them. I'd be a bit angry to know another parent knew and didn't report. PLEASE for the emotional wellbeing and safety of the other children, report all of those things. Ms. B should never work with children again. So proud of you for making that difficult decision to move your dd! Congrats on the new school!


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Just an update:

I spoke to the case worker in the state licensing bureau. She took down all of the information, stopping me to ask focused questions, and seemed to have an appropriate grasp of the impropriety of the events (e.g. "she had a _two-year-old_ sign a confession ??")

She said that she'd review the information with her supervisor, but that she wasn't sure if it reached proportions to classify as a violation since discipline being 'shaming' or 'intimidating' was so open to interpretation. However, she assured me (off the record) that regardless of whether it was handled as an 'official' violation, she intended to perform a site visit and investigation, as she was concerned enought by what she was hearing that, at the very least, there undoubtably needed to be some education and enhanced supervisory accountablility.

I picked up dd during naptime. She woke up, grabbed me around the neck, looked up at me and said "I got in trouble today! I'm sorry, mama.







" Her teacher was sitting with us and said with surprise "No! No she didn't! She had a great day. She was no trouble at all!" I told her that dd was just so stigmatized that she didn't even know who she was anymore. I'm pretty sure her teacher had tears in her eyes







.

We definitely have some healing to do. Thanks for your help, mamas.


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)

Oh your poor DD! I'm glad you got her into a different center though. The new center sounds much better! You are a great mama for moving your DD so quickly!


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I'm so glad your dd is in a better school. I just read this entire thread, hoping that would be the end result. Good job, mama!

Now my one comment on the whole "shut up" thing... if that had been my ds I probably would have been praising him














: He's 3 and has a severe speech delay. He's never said "shut up" (though he did just learn *up* the other day!) so I am always thrilled whenever *something* comes out of his mouth


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
I picked up dd during naptime. She woke up, grabbed me around the neck, looked up at me and said "I got in trouble today! I'm sorry, mama.







" Her teacher was sitting with us and said with surprise "No! No she didn't! She had a great day. She was no trouble at all!" I told her that dd was just so stigmatized that she didn't even know who she was anymore. I'm pretty sure her teacher had tears in her eyes







.

We definitely have some healing to do. Thanks for your help, mamas.

I wonder if she'd had a dream about the other school, or if she was just disoriented from napping and forgot she was in the new school the moment she woke up.


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## LongIsland (Jan 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
However, she assured me (off the record) that regardless of whether it was handled as an 'official' violation, she intended to perform a site visit and investigation, as she was concerned enought by what she was hearing that, at the very least, there undoubtably needed to be some education and enhanced supervisory accountablility.

That's good - it will keep them on their toes. Even though DD is not there any longer, you should follow up with the investigator and see if you can get a copy of that report when it's completed.


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## KnitterMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Just an update:

I spoke to the case worker in the state licensing bureau. She took down all of the information, stopping me to ask focused questions, and seemed to have an appropriate grasp of the impropriety of the events (e.g. "she had a _two-year-old_ sign a confession ??")

She said that she'd review the information with her supervisor, but that she wasn't sure if it reached proportions to classify as a violation since discipline being 'shaming' or 'intimidating' was so open to interpretation. However, she assured me (off the record) that regardless of whether it was handled as an 'official' violation, she intended to perform a site visit and investigation, as she was concerned enought by what she was hearing that, at the very least, there undoubtably needed to be some education and enhanced supervisory accountablility.

I picked up dd during naptime. She woke up, grabbed me around the neck, looked up at me and said "I got in trouble today! I'm sorry, mama.







" Her teacher was sitting with us and said with surprise "No! No she didn't! She had a great day. She was no trouble at all!" I told her that dd was just so stigmatized that she didn't even know who she was anymore. I'm pretty sure her teacher had tears in her eyes







.

We definitely have some healing to do. Thanks for your help, mamas.

I am so happy you found a better situation! It sounds like a wonderful place. This whole thing seems like it was so HORRIBLE for both of you. The above makes me so







sad







your poor DD. I'm really glad you followed-through with the State ... it would have been so easy for you to just wash your hands of the whole thing and put it behind you, but you persisted for the sake of other children. That is a really great thing. Thank you.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

I can't express how much in awe of you I am - you really are a fantastic mother, your dd will thank you all her life for your persistence and courage in taking this situation forward. Really I only have admiration for you, well done.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Can you send a 'Sad Teacher Dog' report back to the teacher:

1. Teacher does not understand age appropriate toddler behavior.

2. Teacher does not properly explain terminology.

Please sign and send back to parent at pick up today.










Best ever.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

I am so glad your dd is out of that place. My heart was breaking for you guys as I read this thread!


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## Stevie (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roseselene* 







: I'm completely speechless. I'm so sorry!
How terrible for your DD.
I think this is a tad passive aggressive, but I might have been tempted to tell the teacher to "shut up"
But that would be bad, wouldn't it.
Amy









:























finally got through the rest of the posts and I too am glad that she's out of there, although I think I would have pulled her after the nap in the basement incident... the school has huge issues around what the providers are allowed as far as behavior!


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## lissabob (Dec 18, 2005)

Ok, finally read all 8 pages.. and my head hurts, and I'm in tears. If there is ANY way you could get a hold of the parents of the other kids in that class to let them know what's going on in that classroom (they may not have the same sort of support kwim?) I would. I'm so glad your dd has made it out of there, and I'm sure in a week or so she'll be completely over that trauma. My dd is 3 and has said all manner of "inappropriate" things.. I shudder to think what would have happened to her with a "teacher" like that.


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

OMG! That is terrible- Miss B has no business working with children and definatley find a new school. RIDICULOUS!!!!


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I definitely think you should do this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Can you send a 'Sad Teacher Dog' report back to the teacher:

1. Teacher does not understand age appropriate toddler behavior.

2. Teacher does not properly explain terminology.

Please sign and send back to parent at pick up today.










Check out the Montessori school very well. I have issues with one of the teachers at the local Montessori school at the 18 month - 3 year level for similar reasons.

Yeesh. At my daughter's school they have incident reports for physical harm (another child bites/ inflicts damage on your child or vice versa). But if a teacher feels that your child is in a behavior funk you might have a discussion about it. For example there was one little boy who was hitting and biting a lot. The director and teachers sat with his parents and worked on a strategy together to help the little boy use his words, let someone know when he needs help, and generally curb the aggressive actions. He's doing great. My center is wonderful with GD







All of the care providers and staff there always assume that the child has the best intentions, and I think that's probably the key.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Dd's been doing super at Montessori. The only way they could get her in early was to put her in the 3 to 6 yo class, although she's 2 years 8 months. So she's the youngest by about six months, but doing fine.

She drops off happily, running over to teacher Holly for a hug, then sitting down to play with the kids. This morning I asked Holly how dd was doing and she said "great!" I said "really?" and she said "Oh no! I don't mean just that we're not having any major problems. I mean she's doing fantastic! She's actually one of the sweetest kids in the class!"


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## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

s Yay! Way to go mama! I am so glad to hear she is doing so well!







s


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## KnitterMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Glad to hear your DD is doing well! Sounds like a wonderful program.

FWIW, my DS was placed in a group of 2 to older 3 year olds at 17 months (he's now 21 months), and he does great. The older toddlers dote on him and are really teaching him a lot!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

My daughter and my 2 sons have had the same K-4 teacher in preschool, she is childless, and she is wonderful. I also have known wonderful teachers who were childless. I had an aunt that was a teacher and she was gay back when lesbians didn't get sperm donors to give them children. She worked with children, because she didn't want to get married and have sex with a man.

As for the sad puppy report -- well I disagree with making the child sign something and interrogating her, I think your husband should have had your daughter say she was sorry for behaving inappropriately and he should have reinforced that what she said was wrong.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

oh, mama...so relieved and happy to hear that your dd is doing so well in the montessori school.

hope you are doing well, too...and this craziness will all be a distant memory.

wtg for advocating for your child so effectively.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

The father of one of dd's old classmates works here in the hospital. Today he ran and caught me in the hall. Said he knew that we'd moved dd out of the school and wanted to know why?

I told him the whole story, and added how well dd was doing at Montessori. He silently handed my an 'Oops!' report filled out on his daughter! It said that - the usual - poor listener, doesn't follow directions, yada yada - and also that she had _rolled her eyes_ at Miss B. This was VERY SERIOUS (underlined), and would not be tolerated














.

The parents have a meeting with the director after school today. When he heard how the director co-signed dd's 'confession', he said that was it - he was pulling his daughter out of the school.

This little girl is the sweetest, most shy little thing. I always paid special attention to her when I dropped or picked up dd. She really had to be drawn out because she was so shy. She is definitely NOT a troublemaker







: .

That woman has GOT to be stopped.


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## Max'sMama (Apr 3, 2004)

Psycho teacher alert....I wonder what she would do with my 2 year old? He has a penchant for screaming when he doesn't get his way and says "I don't like you. I like________ better." What an 'oops' report that would be. When she was getting her degree/certification did she even pay attention to child development?

And the director? She is responsible for hiring/firing? Special attention needs to be directed at the director, no matter how nice she may have been, she is allowing this to happen. The dad you know needs to be filing with the state as well, if you have a watchdog group in your area, I would contact them as well.

It sounds as if this teacher has no place working with little kids.


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

geez... sounds like a woman who doesn't like children so why is she working with them?

it must feel kind of relieving to know someone else had a similar crazy experience with her, though, although i wish the kids didn't have to put up with it...


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

did you file a complaint with the state?


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Yes, I filed a complaint with the state daycare licensing bureau. They stated their intention to perform a site visit and inspection.


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

I didn't read all of the comments so forgive me if this has already been addressed, but I am outraged that they made her "sign" the paper! How did they do that? hold her hand down on the paper? yell at her? scare her?

oh hell no! I don't think so...

it should be illegal to make a child sign anything IMO esp without the aid/permission of an adult EVEN if it's unofficial!!

(sorry I'm not usually this "in your face" about things, but this makes me horribly angry on your child's behalf!)


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

I just read your pulled her out of there... good for you, mama!!

and I would be telling other parents about this as well and letting them draw their own conclusions as they see fit.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Oh my gosh, I just read this whole thread and I am so sad for your daughter. The nametag thing had me crying, let alone her thinking she was "bad" at the new school! This woman needs to be in prison for the way she has traumatized these poor babies, losing her job is not enough! If I knew where she lived, it'd be hard to keep from knocking on her door with a baseball bat in hand.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

There would be a major shortage of teachers if this were the rule. And a lot of children would miss out on being taught by wonderful, inspiring, loving teachers too.

I'm very glad that the parents of all the children that I taught for 14 childless years did not take that attitude.

I've known good, bad and indifferent teachers, and there is very little correlation between having children and being a good teacher, imo.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Blessed,

I'm so glad you got your dd out of Ms. B's class and have filed a complaint with the state bureau. Ms. B needs help relating to kids, and all the kids in her class deserve better.









~Nay


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama* 
Oh my gosh, I just read this whole thread and I am so sad for your daughter. The nametag thing had me crying, let alone her thinking she was "bad" at the new school! This woman needs to be in prison for the way she has traumatized these poor babies, losing her job is not enough! If I knew where she lived, it'd be hard to keep from knocking on her door with a baseball bat in hand.










I know you must be kidding because although this "teacher" is quite psychotic, your statement verges there are well. A baseball bat? Would you talk about injurying someone in this way in front of your children? And remember she may be a mother. What about her children? I'm sick just reading this.

OP~ I believe everything yu have said here regarding your experience and believe it has happened to other children. My caution to you is this. Telling your story without the teacher being able to represent her side of it to other parents currently in the center is legally dangerous. Should the owner find out that you have been telling your story you could be sued for slander. I've known of it happening before. Be careful mama.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Slander is legally defined as 'verbal communication to another of a _false_ statement of fact, made with the requisite frame of mind that causes injury'. In other words, you told a lie and you did it on purpose solely to try and hurt the other person.

The Supreme Court ruled that 'actual malice' is a necessary component, not just negligence. Therefore, it is required to prove that the individual making the statements had 'knowledge that the statements were probably false'.

I've still got the original documents with the teachers signature on them. So she'd have a tough time making any case.

But thanks for weighing in.

ETA: I haven't talked to the parents yet to see how the meeting went. But I forgot to mention that the dad also told me that they had picked up their daughter with her shoes on backward on one occasion, and with both of her legs through one leg opening on her panties on another occasion.

And I never actually brought that up here - because it was relatively less important to us - but dh had picked up dd one day wearing the same diaper that he dropped her off in (filthy, of course). We knew this was the case because we'd bought a new off name brand of diaper for home, and she still had it on rather than the name brand ones we'd left at school.

That sort of thing _never_ happened with any of her other teachers.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

You're seeming a little defensive and every one here is being supportive of you. I say go for it in court, but I wouldn't go talking about it all over town (not that you have done that yet).

That's great that you have evidence, but it wouldn't stop the owner from taking you to court. They would have ample reason to. Can you deny that you are sharing your information not only because you want other parents to be aware but also because you hope to see damage done to this teacher and center?

What about proper education for this teacher? We want parents who have had children taken from them seek parenting classes to be reunited with their children. Why would we not want the same for teachers, or people in other professions?


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
...every one here is being supportive of you...

Yes, they are







.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
That's great that you have evidence, but it wouldn't stop the owner from taking you to court. They would have ample reason to. Can you deny that you are sharing your information not only because you want other parents to be aware but also because you hope to see damage done to this teacher and center?

WHAT? I can't claim to be a legal expert, but I worked in child care before having my own family -- and I never, EVER heard of a parent signing a form upon enrollment stating, "If a teacher emotionally abuses my child, I agree I won't talk about it to other parents who have children enrolled in this center."

Blessed isn't doing anything illegal by letting other parents know what happened to her child and what might happen to theirs. I don't see her behavior as damaging, but as protective and very, very positive and constructive. To say nothing when a parent asks her a direct question could potentially cause that parent's child to be abused by being left in a damaging situation. The current situation in that center is damaging to all concerned.

I agree that I like to see abusive parents get help and be reunited to their kids if at all possible. I'm not in a position to judge whether there's hope for the B in this regard.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Blessed - I was just thinking about your dd and wondering how she's getting on in her new school and what happened to the 'teacher' once dd left the school - were there any repercusions?


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## Crisstiana (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Childless people should not be given degrees in ANYTHING regarding children or the education of children.







:

What an offensive and stupid comment. Plenty of people are childless due to factors they cannot control. This does not make them any less able to treat children with love and respect or to understand the needs of families.

After almost 7 years of TTC, I got extremely lucky and gave birth to a set of beautiful twins. This birth, as wonderful as it was, did not suddenly transform my brain and heart from a barren, cold wasteland into a bountiful, empathic garden. Had I been an insentive, brutish witch who treated kids like chattel I would still be so after the birth of my twins. Conversely, I know plenty of people with children who cannot seem to understand the basics of treating kids with respect and caring.

There are legions of women and men who long to be the loving, thoughtful, caring parents they know they can be. Don't add to their burdens by slinging such hurtful drivel their way.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ewe+lamb* 
Blessed - I was just thinking about your dd and wondering how she's getting on in her new school and what happened to the 'teacher' once dd left the school - were there any repercusions?

Thanks for asking.

Dd continues to thrive at her Montessori school. She's happy, loves her teachers, has had literally nothing but uniformly positive reports and is considered to be one of the sweetest, easiest kids in her room.

I just talked to one of the parents from her old school today. Not much has changed. A couple of parents pulled their kids, and the ones who remain are those who consider Miss B to be a stern and demanding disciplinarian - which is something they approve of







. The school did decide to bring a second teacher into her room, however, which is apparently in the works but hasn't happened yet. So maybe there is the recognition about Miss B needing more supervision.

We're just happy to be OUT of there.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

What amazes me (and I have only read one page of the thread, so this might have been mentioned), but this teacher has insured that your DD will say "shut up" again. That's quite a bit of attention over 2 words, no?


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

You're so right! She's over it now, but for a long while, when frustrated she would shout 'shut up!', then stand there wide eyed and open mouthed, shocked at her own impertinence. We would just say 'oh, use nice words please' and redirect her without much fanfare.

Over time, when she didn't see the expected overblown reaction to her 'bad' behavior, she just let it drop away.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crisstiana* 
What an offensive and stupid comment. Plenty of people are childless due to factors they cannot control. This does not make them any less able to treat children with love and respect or to understand the needs of families.

After almost 7 years of TTC, I got extremely lucky and gave birth to a set of beautiful twins. This birth, as wonderful as it was, did not suddenly transform my brain and heart from a barren, cold wasteland into a bountiful, empathic garden. Had I been an insentive, brutish witch who treated kids like chattel I would still be so after the birth of my twins. Conversely, I know plenty of people with children who cannot seem to understand the basics of treating kids with respect and caring.

There are legions of women and men who long to be the loving, thoughtful, caring parents they know they can be. Don't add to their burdens by slinging such hurtful drivel their way.

while the comment is a bit harsh, i can understand the posters sentiment. I have seen so many many people change their outlook in parenting and how children should behave (or shouldnt) upon having kids (myself included). Its not fair to include all childless people in this general statement, but it is a very common happenstance.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
Dd continues to thrive at her Montessori school. She's happy, loves her teachers, has had literally nothing but uniformly positive reports and is considered to be one of the sweetest, easiest kids in her room.

I just talked to one of the parents from her old school today. Not much has changed. A couple of parents pulled their kids, and the ones who remain are those who consider Miss B to be a stern and demanding disciplinarian - which is something they approve of







. The school did decide to bring a second teacher into her room, however, which is apparently in the works but hasn't happened yet. So maybe there is the recognition about Miss B needing more supervision.

We're just happy to be OUT of there.

I am so happy for you too. Thanks for the update, now that it has been a while. I sometimes think about the whole saga you went through, and it always makes me cringe.

A few comments, now looking back on some old posts (for those who are just now stumbling upon this thread, please note it is from way back in the fall)...

Quote:

What about proper education for this teacher? We want parents who have had children taken from them seek parenting classes to be reunited with their children. Why would we not want the same for teachers, or people in other professions?
As a foster parent, I find this comparison to be like apples and oranges. There is a huge difference in keeping in tact the relationship between a parent and child, and keeping someone in a particular career. How could one even compare the two? To do so would be to minimize the huge, life-changing, and horrific (but sometimes necessary) act of having a child removed from his or her family of origin.

I think sometimes people pick careers for which they are not well suited. Of course a person can learn some things to improve, but it becomes apparent at some point whether there is a significant limit to that learning. When children are involved, we have to be especially careful not to "save someone's career" at the expense of the children.

Quote:

while the comment is a bit harsh, i can understand the posters sentiment. I have seen so many many people change their outlook in parenting and how children should behave (or shouldnt) upon having kids (myself included). Its not fair to include all childless people in this general statement, but it is a very common happenstance.
I don't know. One of my sisters is childless but *amazing* with kids in a way I will *never* be, even after all the learnings I have had since being a mom. She is just a natural, and I will never be half the person she is when it comes to interacting with kids.

Maybe it is a common happenstance that many of us gain a lot of skills (and a helpful perspective) for interacting with children after we are parents. It was true for me, despite the fact that I was well educated on child development, had spent years preparing, etc. before having children. Though I still have seen enough people who didn't gain much in parenthood. But I wouldn't necessarily argue that is common happenstance for childless people to be unskilled with children.

Quote:

There are legions of women and men who long to be the loving, thoughtful, caring parents they know they can be. Don't add to their burdens by slinging such hurtful drivel their way.
So true. When I was going through the peak of my infertility dramas, I know such statements would have hurt me beyond belief. Absolutely been a shot in the heart.

Anyway, blessed, I am so happy for your family that dd is free from the old oppressive environment, and not only doing well in a new school, but a *Montessori* school to boot! Hooray!!!!


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