# GD perspectives on "The Elf on the Shelf?"



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm hearing a lot about this in the mainstream parenting forums and from a few friends. http://www.elfontheshelf.com/#/about-us Basically, you have a little elf in the house, and he's watching and reporting to Santa, so you're supposed to remind the kid that the elf is watching all the time, etc.

I wouldn't say so to any of my friends who have it, but it feels...weird to me. Manipulative. Creepy. But maybe part of that is having been raised in a Jewish home (my husband is a Christian-raised athiest - both of us identify with the cultural traditions, but not the religion). And I think part of it is that it's a recent invention (as far as I know) with the trappings of an old tradition, which feels kind of crass and commercial to me. Or maybe I've read too much Alfie Kohn to get down with this. I'm just wondering how others feel about it and whether I should just lighten up.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

It would creep ME out. I think it would probably send our kids off the deep end!

We do Santa. But we've managed to do Santa without actually doing the 'you'd better watch out' bit. Santa's unconditional in our house! Santa isn't a huge focus of our Christmas, but I kind of like the tradition.

BUT the elf on the shelf seems to make the magical tradition too literal. At a certain age, kids begin to rightly ask "how does Santa know?" And these questions lead to the realization (eventually) that Santa is 'magic' created by people who love you. The elf on the shelf takes that important developmental step away, I think.


----------



## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Holy creepy Batman!

And so then they can misbehave when the elf isn't watching? What if they blindfold the elf?









This is the most bizarre thing I've read in some time. But of course I think the good=presents thing is just wrong. Around here we give presents to make people happy.


----------



## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

i hate that. I think parents need to be a little more accountable.. ok a lot more accountable than that. The whole "santa's watching" thing just creeps me out and feels wrong.

I have a friend that does it constantly with her ds..... OH< i hear bells?? OH santa sees you being bad... every time you are bad you get one less gift from santa, that is how he does it...., etc, etc

It KILLS me......... she is also of the brand.. just wait until I tell Daddy.... Im going to tell Daddy.... when Daddy gets home... etc ......


----------



## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

Very creepy and manipulative. We do Santa but he's not a huge part of our holiday. In our house Santa has no stipulations like "being good" and such. He just comes and brings gifts because he is a generous man who loves to bring joy to children.
Making your kids paranoid of a elf that's watching their every move is not cool. It really takes away from the magic that is Santa if you ask me.


----------



## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

we are doing the elf at our house, but NOT in the good/bad way. I told DD the elf (ours is named Krumpet) is here to teach her about christmas. Every night Krumpet goes back in his stocking and goes to visit Santa at the North Pole and tell him what she learned about christmas that day or what she did, etc. Then in the morning he is hiding, doing something silly, or has a small gift for her (stuff I would buy anyways). So far he has been here for 5 days. The 1st day he was waiting in her stocking with a letter from Santa, the 2nd day he was reading a christmas book (that we already owned, I pulled them all of the shelf about a month ago) to her stuffed animals, the 3rd day he had made a mess in the kitchen "making cookies" (and then we made cookies later), the 4th day he had set up a little christmas tree for DD's room, and this morning he was found wearing some of DD's dressup clothes. What can I say, I am a christmas nut. DD is still to young to get the humor of the elf doing silly things but she still likes to look for him every morning and see what he did. From what I have read on other message boards, kids really seem to get a kick out of the elves when they are a bit older. I think it will be great fun and so we are doing it.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I wouldn't do that. We "do" Santa, but I told my daughter that Santa gives toys to every child - that there is no "naughty list" and no one gets coal.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

In our house Santa represents unconditional love, so no elves watching.

We do have fairies in our house, but they are SERIOUSLY unconcerned with enforcing rules.


----------



## Lit Chick (Aug 15, 2007)

Snoopy, your elf sounds like a lot of fun! I might have to do something like that when DS is older. Silly and adorable! And IMHO, similar to having dolly tea parties or whatnot - at a certain point it will clearly be make-believe but still fun.

The elf as described in the OP though - freaky!!!!! I have a terror of "alive" dolls. Eeep, Xmas Chucky!
And besides that, I have a HUGE problem with the style of parenting that basically is "be good only when you benefit". The elf is watching, so you can't get away with anything... that does not teach kids to "be good for goodness sake". Only to be good when they are being monitored and can get gifts.


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Snoopy, your elf sounds like fun! I totally think that's the right way to do this - it just adds to the fun of Christmas and isn't some behavior modification technique.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who takes issue with the whole idea as I described it in the OP. I've seen a lot of people say they are doing this, and it seems to be a growing trend, and I was starting to think maybe I was some kind of GD nutball for hating it. I may still be a nutball, but at least I have good company!


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
In our house Santa represents unconditional love, so no elves watching.

We do have fairies in our house, but they are SERIOUSLY unconcerned with enforcing rules.

This is how we are too. I don't think the elf thing is creepy, it is a plastic toy not a little man sitting on the shelf spying on them in the shower. But I do think it is manipulative and wrong.


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Am I total hypocrite? I was at my friend's house last night for a jewelry party and she started talking about the elf and telling us how every night they move the elf (he goes back to santa at night to give his "report" and comes back to a different spot in the house) and the kids wake up and look for him. I liked that part of things and had a lot of fun putting himside a chafing dish with his feet sticking out.


----------



## quietserena (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't understand how repeatedly pointing out to kids about how Santa knows when they're 'bad' wouldn't make the kids hate Santa. And in this context, the elf too.


----------



## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

I thought Santa "sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been good or bad"

So who needs an elf? Seems like yet another marketing trick to me. The all knowing all seeing Santa is way more sinister and more effective if you are into that sort of thing.

(I don't use it, but DD (4.75) heard the song this year, and has been warning her little baby cousin, and the dog against misbehaviour







)


----------



## anywaybecause (Jul 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellimamo* 
Very creepy and manipulative. We do Santa but he's not a huge part of our holiday. In our house Santa has no stipulations like "being good" and such. He just comes and brings gifts because he is a generous man who loves to bring joy to children.
Making your kids paranoid of a elf that's watching their every move is not cool. It really takes away from the magic that is Santa if you ask me.

I think the spying elf thing is creepy, too. And it really bugs me when people tell kids (any kid, but especially my kids) that if they're not good, they won't get any gifts from Santa. We tell the kids that Santa "knows what's in their hearts" -- the idea being that even if they make a big mistake, Santa knows that they are sorry and didn't mean to hurt someone; he knows that most people try to be nice and kind, but that sometimes they make mistakes.


----------



## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I think that an elf is cute, but I think the good and bad and "hes watching you" thing is kind of stupid. I may get one and have it in different spots of the house "doing" different things on the days leading up to christmas, and every day look for him. I think that would be a cute idea..


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

My mom got my daughter an elf called Christopher who comes every day between Thanksgiving and Christmas and brings a little treat. He doesn't watch and when someone tells her to stop being bad (100% of the time this has happened in a checkout line when she was not being bad at all, just tired) or Santa won't bring any toys, I laugh at the "hilarious joke" and say we're pretty sure Santa has already done his shopping or something similar.

It took her a few days to catch on to the elf, but she's into it now. My mom got him kind of last minute so I didn't have much time to prepare or brainstorm fun things for him to do/bring. It's mostly a piece of candy or small toy (mostly things I had gotten for her stockng).

The Elf on the Shelf creeps me right the heck out. My grandmother had an identical elf on her tree every year and we (all the grandkids) always found him creepy and weird. He just has a kind of evil look about him.


----------



## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
We do Santa. But we've managed to do Santa without actually doing the 'you'd better watch out' bit. Santa's unconditional in our house! Santa isn't a huge focus of our Christmas, but I kind of like the tradition.











I think it is bribing kids. I saw a mom this weekend telling her son Santa may not come and the kid was very distressed, I think it's cruel to tease like that. I didn't want to do Santa but our oldest knows and is talking about Santa. I try to minimize, but he can believe and have fun if he wants. I'm just not going to get him all worked up over it.


----------



## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
I thought Santa "sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been good or bad"

Ugh, I hate that song! I always amazes me how many of my conservative Christian friends have no problem teaching their children that someone other than God is omniscient - which is blasphemy - and laugh it off saying "oh, its just fun." [end rant]

The Elf sounds fun, in terms of a way to build anticipation before the actual day. I dont really see it losing any of its fun by the child knowing that I move it around and make it do silly things. In fact, Im sure he'd love having a turn at hiding it himself.


----------



## AlmostAPpropriate (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBecks* 









I think it is bribing kids. I saw a mom this weekend telling her son Santa may not come and the kid was very distressed, I think it's cruel to tease like that. I didn't want to do Santa but our oldest knows and is talking about Santa. I try to minimize, but he can believe and have fun if he wants. I'm just not going to get him all worked up over it.


We do exactly that. If he wants to pretend we all get into it. If he starts to worry about it I remind him that playing Santa is an awesome _pretend_ game.


----------



## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

I've been thinking the same thing! It seems so manipulative the way some families do it. Now, hiding it? That's cute and just good fun. But as a spy for Santa? Eew!

I also have an unconditional Santa though too. He gives toys to all the girls and boys... and hopefully when DD's older and realizes that *everyone* is Santa, it will help turn the focus more onto giving to those who have less than she does.


----------



## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

ick. is _that_ what the elf on the shelf I keep seeing is supposed to be for?!?! Im exasperated. ick.

why not just have a 'mole on the shelf' and dress him up in an elf suit?


----------



## IlluminatedAttic (Aug 25, 2006)

This reminds me of one of my first teaching jobs way back in college. It was a private christian school and they had a banner in the kindergarten room that said, "Jesus is always watching you." When I mentioned that I thought it should read "watching _over_ you" I was given an earful about teaching them to fear the wrath of God early so that they would walk a righteous path. Needless to say I didn't last very long at that school.


----------



## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IlluminatedAttic* 
This reminds me of one of my first teaching jobs way back in college. It was a private christian school and they had a banner in the kindergarten room that said, "Jesus is always watching you." When I mentioned that I thought it should read "watching _over_ you" I was given an earful about teaching them to fear the wrath of God early so that they would walk a righteous path.

OMG sounds like my childhood!
























Frightening that ppl really do this to kids. It took me years to get secure enough with myself to break way from that mentality. Cultish freaks, lemme tell ya.

Bellevuemama


----------



## Paeta16 (Jul 24, 2007)

It really is a big thing now huh? It is everywhere. We had elves under our Christmas tree growing up - looked just like the elf on the shelf. Their jobs, however, were to magically come alive on Christmas Eve and help Santa lay out the stockings/presents. LOL They never did anything leading up to Christmas!

I like the idea of our tradition...a helpful elf. One of the things I want to teach my DD is about helping others and maybe even doing some volunteering in that respect.

I despise the "reporting back to Santa" part







I also think hiding him would be fun....you could really do a lot of fun things. I like Snoopy's ideas


----------



## mommy2caroline (May 9, 2007)

It drives me nuts that people who don't even know us will just say to my three year old, "Are you excited about Santa coming to your house? Have you been good? Have you visited Santa and told him what you want?' It just reinforces the greed and that Santa is the focus of Christmas, which is what I am not wishing to teach my girls.

I have seen the Elf of the Shelf in stores and wondered what it was... how odd. My 3 yo wouldn't believe it if you told her a doll was going to go tell Santa how she was behaving... but then, she's rather serious about these type things anyway!

We try to focus on the giving and on Jesus as the reason for Christmas, and we observe Advent as a time of waiting until Jesus's birthday, not as a time to worry about whether you'll get gifts or Santa or commercial hype. One thing we do is have an empty manger, and for each "good deed" done by dd, she can put a piece of straw in the manger to make a soft bed for baby Jesus. That way she focuses on the giving spirit of the season, and we focus on what good deeds she's done rather than on "being good" or "being bad" and Santa knowing this information. Any time she does something helpful, she can put straw in the manger, which she enjoys a lot.

Reading this thread makes me remember what one of my brothers and I would say to a younger brother... sadly, we used the "Santa is always watching and deciding what list to put you on" idea against him. Sometimes if he was doing something wrong or that annoyed us, we'd tell him, "Santa won't come!" We'd say it even if Christmas was months away sometimes. We realized it got him to change his actions pretty quickly. But how awful of us... and we weren't raised with the mentality that Santa was the reason for the season, and that "bad" children got lumps of coal. I think it is just so infused in our culture, and my parents didn't actively work against that mentality (even if they didn't actively promote it either), so we picked up on it from songs and such. Sad.


----------



## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

We have decided not to do Santa in our home. Not that I have any major problems with it, but DH wasn't raised with it and his family doesn't do Santa. WE go to his family's every other year for Christmas and it just wouldn't make sense to DS if Santa only came every other year and never came to grandma and granddad W's house.

Anyway

here's my question: if a family is doing the elf on the shelf/naughty and nice thing, then what do they do if the child/ren are really naughty?Will they follow through and not put any presents under the tree? Cause if they don't, then it just becomes an empty threat and children figure that out REAL quickly. And if the children don't get any presents from santa... well how dissappointing would that be?


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

It's not really a traditional tradition if you know what I mean. If you go to the website you can see that this mom just made it up.

Quote:

http://www.elfontheshelf.com/#/gift-shop
Based on the tradition Carol Aebersold began with her family in the 1970s, this cleverly rhymed children's book explains that Santa knows who is naughty and/or nice because he sends a scout elf to every home.
We had those elves when I was a kid and they certainly never spied on us. They were just a decoration like jingle bells or a wreath. My mom still has them (she's 83). My kids like to see them when they go visit, but there's no notion that they'll come to life, etc.

I think it's creepy and co-opting of a 50s decoration. You can still buy the elf minus the shelf stuff from the Vermont Country Store.


----------



## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

we do santa. my kids love it. we also do the tooth fairy. my mom bought my kids an elf on the shelf. but he doesn't sit on a shelf. he sleeps with my dd and she is loving holes into him. he doesn't report to anyone or do anything, he's just to cuddle and love in here. my sister does the elf on a shelf, but she made up her own game. her elf is naughty and at night causes chaos. her kids love to wake up and see what 'wendy" the elf did the night before. sometimes she drinks caprisuns and throws them all over the house. another time she took toilet paper and made a huge mess with it, etc. it's all in good fun. no manipulation, just good laughs.


----------



## COVegMom (Mar 9, 2008)

Well if that's not the stuff that makes for paranoid neurosis I don't know what it. How creepy.

Now hiding it in different places for each other to find sounds fun.
Spying on your behavior and never knowing where that creepy thing is... gives me shivers. Does it have a camera in it too?


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanniesue2* 

here's my question: if a family is doing the elf on the shelf/naughty and nice thing, then what do they do if the child/ren are really naughty?Will they follow through and not put any presents under the tree? Cause if they don't, then it just becomes an empty threat and children figure that out REAL quickly. And if the children don't get any presents from santa... well how dissappointing would that be?

That's one of my major issues with the whole naughty/nice thing and all the threats around Santa. Because who the heck is ever really going to follow through? And if you don't follow through on the threat, then you're basically saying that naughty/nice doesn't matter, so why start it in the first place? Have you ever known a kid to actually get a lump of coal and nothing else?!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
It's not really a traditional tradition if you know what I mean. If you go to the website you can see that this mom just made it up.

We had those elves when I was a kid and they certainly never spied on us. They were just a decoration like jingle bells or a wreath. My mom still has them (she's 83). My kids like to see them when they go visit, but there's no notion that they'll come to life, etc.

I think it's creepy and co-opting of a 50s decoration. You can still buy the elf minus the shelf stuff from the Vermont Country Store.

Yeah, that's been bugging me. They pretend it's some olden-days tradition, and all the typefaces and design are very retro. But it's not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
we do santa. my kids love it. we also do the tooth fairy. my mom bought my kids an elf on the shelf. but he doesn't sit on a shelf. he sleeps with my dd and she is loving holes into him. he doesn't report to anyone or do anything, he's just to cuddle and love in here. my sister does the elf on a shelf, but she made up her own game. her elf is naughty and at night causes chaos. her kids love to wake up and see what 'wendy" the elf did the night before. sometimes she drinks caprisuns and throws them all over the house. another time she took toilet paper and made a huge mess with it, etc. it's all in good fun. no manipulation, just good laughs.

Now that is fun! I like the idea of a havoc-wreaking elf, and might just have to do that next year when the girls a little older. I think right now my Lilly is so twitchy about monsters and such in our house that she'd be scared of that even if she thought it was fun at the same time, KWIM?


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I think that threatening kids with not getting gifts or being on the "naughty list" because of their behavior takes away from the beauty of Christmas.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I think that threatening kids with not getting gifts or being on the "naughty list" because of their behavior takes away from the beauty of Christmas.

Absolutely. I feel conflicted about "lying" about Santa, but I absolutely will not stand for anyone telling my kids that they'd better be good or Santa won't bring them any presents. It seems like every cashier likes to say this to them this time of year.

Ds1 asked me specifically about this the other day, because a family friend had told a story about getting a lump of coal in her stocking one time. He asked me "Is it just on Christmas Eve that you have to be good to get presents, or is it all the time?" I told him that the spirit of Christmas was to bring happiness and joy to other people, not to judge someone's behavior, and that him getting presents had nothing to do with how he acted on any particular day. (I then tried to have a discussion about how Christmas was not about the presents, but that didn't get very far.







)


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
We do have fairies in our house, but they are SERIOUSLY unconcerned with enforcing rules.

This has me cracking up, thank you.


----------



## jp79 (Aug 5, 2006)

I just wanted to chime in about the Elf on the Shelf. It seems to be all the rage among some parenting groups, but I just can't help but find it insanely creepy. Besides, my kiddo would probably just re-purpose him anyway.


----------



## Kappa (Oct 15, 2007)

Um, that is strange. We did Santa Claus growing up, and it was FUN. There was never a threat, or a worry that Santa Claus would not fulfill our requests if we did not reach some behavioral expectation. The only "threat" was that Santa Claus couldn't come unless we were all asleep in our beds.

I would really be sad to think there is a kid out there that thinks Santa won't bring him a gift because he has been "bad." The take-away from that lesson is not "You behaved badly." It's "YOU are bad." That could really crush a kid's self esteem. I plan on doing Santa Claus with my kids, but because it is fun and exciting. Not use the process for punishment, manipulation, or anything like that, you could easily ruin a kid's self esteem.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I've known people who would've reacted to that by stuffing things onto every shelf so there wasn't room for any







: elf.

ETA: The whole "Santa brings presents to good kids" BS seems even more stupid given the economy.


----------

