# Hurtful comments



## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

I seem to now be living my nightmare. I've had 2 miscarriages, one before DS and one just recently in Dec. we've been waiting to TTC again but the m/c threw me into such a depression I wanted to be very careful and wait a bit (couldn't handle yet another m/c on top of it all). Well the last couple of months I've felt ready, but no luck. This month I actually REALLY thought I was pregnant, all the signs, etc, but along came AF.








So I'm in a crappy state.

A few weeks ago a good friend called to tell me she was pregnant, then a new friend here told me she is, then another....I told Dh all that would be harder for me was if S*** (a much closer friend) told me next. Well, ha ha, last night she called and....yup.

But the thing is, every other person was very sensitive to the fact that I'd had a m/c recently, and seemed to know when to shut up about their own pregnancy, kwim? This one just kept going on and on and on and I was trying to feel happy for her but was just getting more hurt. Finally I thought I should say something so I did say it's been hard for me to hear everyone's news. She didn't really say anything so I changed the subject and decided I didn't want to touch that anymore. As we were about to say goodbye, she quickly said, before I hung up, "A baby will come when it's the right time".

Well I know she said that with good intentions but I slammed the phone down and was so furious. I felt like she slipped it in to relieve her own guilt or something, and anyway it's such a BS thing to say to someone who's had a loss when you yourself haven't.







I was up all night crying with Dh about this and slept really badly. I think I need to write something to her but I'm having trouble articulating it.
I'd like to be very happy for her and to be supportive during her pregnancy but right now I feel like staying as far away as possible.


----------



## underthebluerug (Jan 26, 2004)

(((Muse))) I'm so sorry that happened to you. Oh, how much ignorant and uncalled-for remarks like that hurt and angered me when I was in your shoes! Yup, she was trying to regain the upperhand in the conversation and assuage her guilt at your expense---by appearing wise and all-knowing and denying your right to hurt or grieve. People can be SO obnoxious around grief.

I brought home a baby rabbit after my second m/c four years ago to help take my mind off losing my beloved tummy companion. When a visitor of dh's called my rabbit a baby substitute, I was livid and in tears for ages after she left. All I wanted to do was call her up and shout that if anyone knew the difference between a baby and a rabbit, it was ME.

HUGs and empathy to you,
Kate


----------



## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

muse I'm sorry for your losses. I too, seem to be surrounded by the most fertile people in the world!
Your friend was very insensitive to you. I think a letter would be a good idea because then she can take time to digest it without feeling guilty or defensive and not have to give a quick response. She can be thoughtful and write you back. I found out I was pregnant very shortly after a good friend miscarried and I felt uncomfortable telling her that I was pregnant so I sent her a card and told her that I knew the timing b/n my pg and her m/c was tricky. I also had a friend who m/c while I was pg and I remember being conscious of waiting for her to ask me questions about the pg as opposed to me yapping on and on about it. If your friend is a true friend, she would put herself in your shoes and think about what is best for you.

undertheblue: *BABY SUBSTITUTE????* I think I would've had to beat that person with a stupid stick. Come on! That is truly unbelievable. We should make up some tee shirts for ourselves that say something like: "Before you speak, make sure the on switch for your brain is flipped, *on* ."
I'm sorry for your losses.


----------



## shannon0218 (Oct 10, 2003)

Muse,








That is hard to cope with and I totally agree with Sweet Teach on sending her a letter, otherwise there is just too much room for defencive remarks, and your emotions are too close to the surface and you may be hurt worse.
I would make a point of telling her that you are sure she meant well but that comments like hers really hurt now. That you value her friendship but are hurting so much yourself right now and that it's hard to be happy for her even though you would love to be and likely will be soon.
Take care, I too had a 2ww where I was convinced I was pregnant this time and AF showed on Mother's day, only 3 days before my first due date--just cruel


----------



## Shannon Poe (Apr 11, 2002)

When I was trying to get pregnant with my second child I had my 2 closest friends behave in a similiar way.

First it took nearly a year to get pregnant, then july 5 2002 I suffered a heartbreaking miscarriage at 9 weeks. Underwent a traumatic D&C, and was subsequently depressed.

My two closest friends were oblivious to my pain. All they talked about was how incredibly fertile they were and how their bodies were just made for baby making, blah, blah, blah,

I've since been blessed with a beautiful baby girl, but I'll never forget how cruel and insensitive they were to me.

Shannon


----------



## Maple Leaf (Apr 10, 2004)

Lots of







Muse!

Dh and I were saying to each other that we should start up our date nights again. I told him that I'd enjoy it alot, but don't take me anywhere where there are pregnant ladies!

Luckly, I have no close friends that are pregnant right now. I can only imagine how hurt you must feel. I think writing a letter would be a great idea, for the sake of your friendship.
I remember, when I was pregnant with Bean, I was so excited I was engulfed in it. I don't think I saw past the jubilation. Who knows, maybe I hurt someone. Now that I have suffered the loss of a baby, I think I will be a lot more sensitive and guarded about the next pregnancy.


----------



## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Muse.

All I can say is B**CH! That kind of thing really gets me! (Can you tell?)

I am so sorry for you losses and for the loss of a friend!!!


----------



## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

Wow- I am very sorry for your loss and for the people that have hurt you. Some people just cant even think about walking in your shoes so they play it off like it didnt happen- I am sure your firend couldnt even fathum the thought of the pain you have felt- it is one that is only trully felt when lived- and I think she did not mean to hurt you, but just really doesnt understand, or even know what to say. I would think it would be hard for some women to know how to tell you their news, or what to say that would not hurt you- however, I dont think this firend really thought it out first! Hugs to you,

Also, Jackieg213- I love your signature, what a great quote!


----------



## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Thanks for all your support mamas, and thanks for sharing your stories...it REALLY helps. I only know one friend IRL who has had miscarriages (2) and she doesn't talk about ti, is quite matter-of-fact about it, so this is really important. Well, a good well though out letter is a great idea, but I woke up so upset the next morning I felt I had to get something said right away before I let it slip, as I usually do (plus she is about to go away for 2 weeks), so I just wrote a one line email telling her that as a doula (yeah I forgot to tell you that part) she should know that a comment like that would be hurtful and condescending. It wasn't the greatest way to write it but it's done now. No response yet. Knowing her she will just shut down, so either I let it go or I write her a letter later when I'm feeling clearer.

What I realised later is we have a bigger history around all this. We met at a homebirth talk when she was 8 months pregnant, I was 2 months. The night of her blessingway I miscarried. Ugh. They couldn't (???) really be around to offer support because soon they had a new baby. So I don't remember her ever saying/doing much around that one and then I was pregnant again not long after. So she has always sort of been one step ahead of me with babies, and always wanting to "teach" me which drives me insane. So I think this was her trying to offer her "all knowing wisdom" (as one of you put it) once again, and I don't want or need it.
I have my own beliefs, faith, trust, you know, and even if I do think babies "come at the rigth time" it is not for anybody else to put that into our mouths, especially when she hasn't acknowledged the miscarriage at all.

One good thing that came of all this; I came to appreciate a new friend I have here a lot more for the way she handled telling me about her pregnancy. She was very careful and even though I see her all the time she only talks about it if I bring it up, and has been very supportive around my miscarriage. She also talks about other friends of hers who've miscarried and how she has been careful with them.

Also it led to a long good talk with Dh and brought us even closer thinking about hoe much we would like another baby (we've been a bit ambivalent recently). And it led me to appreciate my currently pretty easy life with no morning sickness, exhaustion, crying baby, sleepless nights, etc etc so we went out dancing to african music to enjoy it while we can LOL


----------



## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Ugh, well I got a really harsh email back from her, saying I didn't think she deserved to be pregnant because I'm not, that I'm mean and evil spirited, and on and on...all in response to my one line saying her comment was hurtful.
I find it pretty astounding how this issue can bring up such enormous feelings in people. I know other women who are pregnant who have lost friends who can't concieve...
I wrote back much too fast and in an email (bad way to communicate) but I was so upset I had to get it out. I don't know how you fix a friendship like this. I'm "mean and evil spirited" and playing "manipulative powergames" by expressing hurt?
How have any of you recovered friendships in this sort of situation? Or have you just had to move on? We have such a close history, she was at my son's birth, our sons are friends, our husbands are friends...but I don't know if i can trust her at all now.


----------



## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

You know, I'm sitting here shaking with anger at her response to you. Feel free to copy what I'm about to write and send it in another email to her:

*Anyone who considers themselves to be a true friend to someone would do a little bit of research on pregnancy loss and quickly realize that the loss of a baby can be devastating to a woman. What women need at this time is support, care, love and a safe space to truly grieve their losses. If you cannot offer this to a grieving woman, please keep your distance from her and refrain from making hurtful comments and assumptions about her. She is grieving, and she should be treated with the basic dignity, respect and compassion that any grieving person warrants. Also, please know that the loss of her pregnancy can bring up scary feelings in those who are currently pregnant. Try not to displace your feelings and "blame the victim" for what you fear could also happen to you.*

Muse, I'm sorry that you're in such a terrible place with her, but honestly, you should be spending your time and energy on grieving your babies, not fighting with her to allow you to do that in whatever way you need to. I would have to let her go and pray that she never has to understand where you're coming from by way of experience.
She's dead wrong on her assessment, just know that.


----------



## underthebluerug (Jan 26, 2004)

WHAT?! Oh Muse, I am SO very upset for you right now. I hope you will let this friendship go, at least for the foreseeable future. I know you have a history with her, but this women has a *serious* problem with sensitivity and compassion when she can't be the one in control. I am furious with her!! Please let us absorb for you all the hurt that she has caused you. You SO don't deserve this or need this right now. (And FWIW, I felt your one-liner was fine for getting the message across under the circumstances---i.e., without expending too much energy on it.)

Again, this IS the *last* thing you need at this moment in time. As MamaNazir said so eloquently, "you should be spending your time and energy on grieving your babies, not fighting with her to allow you to do that in whatever way you need to..." ITA with everything she wrote.

Major hugs,
Kate


----------



## Ellie'sMom (Aug 10, 2002)

ITA with SweetTeach and could not write it more eloquently.

I think pregnancy loss is so scary for some women that they act like it is contagious.

She had no right to respond to you that way. I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, and think that she is not the self-centered, uncaring person she appears to be. You probably have a better sense of that than we do.

You could try to educate her about pregnancy loss (rec. some books maybe?), but you are certainly under no obligation to do that.

A doula??? She should know better.


----------



## wilkers8 (Mar 22, 2004)

I'm so very sorry! I'm even more sorry that someone you thought would be supportive has turned out to be such a <insert swear word of choice>.

My son was stillborn a little over two months ago. One of my four closest friends is due five days after Connor and another just told me (very carefully) that she is pregnant this month. Both have been completely supportive that I just can't be part of their pregnancies right now. This included missing showers or not wanting to hear about morning sickness or fears about delivery. They have both told me they are sad to not be able to share a part of their lives with me but they are more sad to see me so upset. So it's completely possible to remain friends with someone that is pregnant but they have to be a supportive and understanding individual. Obviously, this person is not. Some individuals will eventually come around (they finally start to understand the depth of your loss) and some won't. Time will tell which person she is. In the meantime, don't expect any type of suppot from her.

I think SweetTeach had the right idea...don't just copy that piece, I would send her this url. Or is that just being too mean...can't tell anymore. I've lost all patience with stupid insensitive people.


----------



## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

word up Wilkers! Send her the dang thread. Maybe she'll learn to be a more civilized human being. Poor women she has to doula for- she obviously has no compassion and I thought that was part of the job description.

Muse, I too have many people in my life who are pg or who gave birth shortly after I lost my ds and they have all offered me absolutely nothing less than what I asked for. They are even able to hear the uncomfortable thoughts and feelings I have and not _internalize_ them. I wish they could talk to this friend of yours to teach her a thing or two.
Hope you are not too down about this.


----------



## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

Muse,
If I had her address I would send her this thread...and Wilkers...I don't think it is "too mean"...IT IS THE TRUTH...some people need to hear the truth...regardless if it hurts or not and I don't think that she is capable of hurting or knowing how to tap into her own feelings...or she would of NEVER said those hurtful things.






















Mama Muse...love to you sister...my heart aches for you and I too was shaking when i read what happened to you and the fact that she is a doula. I am a doula and an apprentice midwife...never, ever, ever would I even think about something so hurtful.


----------



## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

THANKYOU! THANKYOU! It is so helpful to have my feelings affirmed by you all. I've been going round and round in circles about this one but it's really not worth me spending the energy on. Looking back on what I wrote to her I feel fine about it (except for calling her spiteful and self absorbed







). Someone needs to say it. Maybe she'll hear it, maybe she won't, but either way i'm not too interested in being around to hear her response.
In talking to other friends about this they've all agreed that she has been hurtful and insensitive and also it seems this falling out was inevitable at some point because this is what she does with most friendships eventually. So the good that's come out of this is I've learned I have some really wonderful friends who I trust and that I don't need to cling onto something that feels so unsafe and also ungenuine.
What was almost worse than her response re the m/c, was she also dragged up resentment about something that happened 6 months ago, completely unrelated, and it felt like she was trying to pull out as much ammunition as possible, so I feel like how could I ever trust her again if this is how she handles feelings like this...she of course put it all on me as to why she couldn't talk to me about it, but that's just her and her unwillingness to accept responsibility or communicate like an adult.
I would never send her this link because I wouldn't want her in my "private space" where I feel safe, you know? I don't think I'll write to her again at all actually. At least not for a long time. I'd rather focus on positive relationships than negative. Maybe it's taken me 30 something yrs to distinguish those things!

Thanks again mamas.............hugs back to you all


----------

