# Co-sleepers! Come settle an argument....



## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

I am having a long running disagreement with my best friend. Here's the story. She says that her two children (now older school age kids) co-slept in bed with she and her dh from birth and SLEPT THROUGH THE NIGHT without waking to nurse after they were about 3-4 months old. They continued to be breastfed until toddler/preschool age and co-slept, but did not wake at night to nurse. They slept through the night. (Did I accentuate that part enough?







: ) I say "Great for you, your kids were exceptionally good sleepers. You are the THE ONLY breastfeeding and co-sleeping Mom I have EVER heard say that. EVERYONE else I know has kids that wake every 1-3 hours ALL NIGHT LONG for basically the duration of their co-sleeping and nursing." Hands down, every family I know from LLL, API, etc. has the same story. Hello.... check out all the threads here about frequent night wakings/nursing. I am not debating co-sleeping. I almost always love it and strongly believe in it. I also know in my heart that my baby would sleep better for longer stretches of sleep if he wasn't lying next to the milk maker all night.







It is a physiologic fact reasearched by McKenna et al. that co-sleeping DOES produce more frequent sleep cycling by the infant as matched by the mother's breathing, brainwaves, etc., etc. ad nauseum...
So she gets MAD at me whenever I try and dispute that her kids behavior is the norm. I feel she tries (albeit subtly) to imply that my 4 month old waking every 2-3 hours is abnormal. I am not saying her children's behavior was freakish, I just think she got REALLY REALLY lucky with good sleepers. Anyone else want to weigh in? Are we all wacked? Whose co-sleepers sleep through the night? Stand up and be counted!!!!


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, we cosleep and bottle nurse, and my 4.5 month old IN NO WAY sleeps through the night. He just got his first tooth (!) and during teething he was up about 3 times a night. Now that the tooth is through, he's waking up once or twice. Everyone always asks if he's sleeping throught the night... Oh well. No biggie. I actually think that he doesn't wake up much, all things considered.


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## Jessie'sMom (Dec 1, 2006)

my dd did sleep thru the night from about 2 months to 4 months. now she's 7 months and continues to eat thru the night. currently she starts the night out in the pack-n-play or co-sleeper and then I get her when she wakes up and put her next to me.


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

DS is 13 months, has never slept for more than 4 hours (a handfull of times) and usually wakes every 1-2 hours at night.

ETA: I forgot once he slept for 8 hours, but he was sick.


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lemurmommies* 
Everyone always asks if he's sleeping throught the night... Oh well. No biggie. I actually think that he doesn't wake up much, all things considered.

Yeh, me too. I don't think my little one is a BAD sleeper. I just have realistic expections for MY child.







Truly when people ask me that question I honestly mean it when I say "Sure, he sleeps great." He does. For a BABY. Duh.


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## a_work_in_progress (May 17, 2006)

All of my kids pretty much slept through the night from the get go. Of course, I nurse and sleep at the same time. The babies wouldn't fully wake up... they'd just suck a little bit more if they were thirsty. I usually sleep right through it.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

My dd has always slept in bed with us and has basically slept through the night since day one.

Now- slept through the night is by definition usually 5 hours.

There were stretches she'd wake 2-3 times a night.

But as a rule, she sleeps through the night.

Since a little past 2 she sleeps ALL night without waking most times (~10 hours)

-Angela


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## simonboy'smommy (Jan 22, 2007)

We co-slept until my son was 18 months. When his foot ended up in our mouths a couple times in the middle of the night we decided there wasn't enough room for all 3 of us anymore.







Anyway, he had only slept "through the night" (5-6 hrs) maybe 4 times in his life! Even in his own bedroom he continued to wake at 1:30am and 4:30 am to nurse like he always had. Then we chose to night wean this past January and now most of the time he sleeps from 11:00-7:00 or so. He nurses before sleep and after waking.

There is a lady I met at LLL who had 3 kids and they all exclusively bf but they all slept 10 hours at night starting at a very young age. She made us all sick







:

Maybe your friend was so tired she nursed them in her sleep and didn't know it







I think her case is really rare.


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## Yaliina (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daisie125* 
DS is 13 months, has never slept for more than 4 hours (a handfull of times) and usually wakes every 1-2 hours at night.

ETA: I forgot once he slept for 8 hours, but he was sick.









:
My 16 month old slept 4-6 hour stretches the FIRST month of his life- I thought I was blessed!! Then somehow that changed. I don't really know why, but he started waking MORE frequently- probably something to do with teeth. Anyway, at 15 months, I was nursing him down to his crib, going up to nurse him back down again every hour or two (sometimes 45 minutes) until after I went to bed, when I just brought him to bed w/ me to nurse through the night. The thing is, if he's latched on, he really doesn't awaken at all- just turns his head, rolls over, or switches "ninnies' occasionally.

Then, a little less than a month ago, we started trying to rearrange his night time habbits. I decided I'd had enough, so we switched to "fathering down" after the first time at night. The thing is, he only wakes once or twice most nights now. And then we bring him to bed to nurse at 5-6am.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

dd started sleeping a 5-6 hour stretch at 3-4 months, my period came back because of it


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

DS slept so well for the first 3 mos.. and then it went downhill. He rarely sleeps longer than 3 hours now. But it's very very easy to settle him back down so I try not to worry.


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Not a SINGLE one of my three children have EVER slept through the night while they were nursing/co-sleeping...In fact, we're going through the 2.5 yr old who wants his own bed but still wakes up between 12-2a and climbs into bed with us every night phase right now...Is she for real? Or is she exaggerating???


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## autumnsdanebabies (Mar 15, 2006)

Mine slept through the night (6-8) hours from about 2 months to about 6 months. NOW at 8 months he's up at least every 2-3 hours nursing. If he sleeps next to Daddy however, he's back to sleeping all night even though I'm in the same bed. I agree that sleeping next to the milk machine DOES make a difference!!


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## Momma2SoSweet (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a_work_in_progress* 
... I nurse and sleep at the same time. The babies wouldn't fully wake up... they'd just suck a little bit more if they were thirsty. I usually sleep right through it.









: My dd 'wakes' to eat every 2-3 hours at night, but I never wake up and make a fuss about it, therefore she never fully wakes up.

Right now she has been sleeping in the bed by herself for 2 hours soundly. Guess why? Mommy and the milk aren't in there.







As soon as I go to bed (which will be very shortly) she'll fidget and want to nurse.

But to answer your question- no, she doesn't just sleep all through the night without wanting to nurse.


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## Bindweed (Mar 31, 2007)

I have two that slept through the night by six weeks, and one who still doesn't at 1.5 years. I think both are "normal", you just hear/read about the wakers more, that's all. What's to talk about when you're getting a good nights sleep?


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## tsfairy (May 19, 2004)

We still cosleep at 20.5mo with no intention of stopping any time soon. DS started "sleeping through the night" (ie 5ish hours) around 14mo, before that for many months he woke up every 3 hours on the nose and nursed back to sleep.

By 18mo DS was sleeping 9+ hr stretches at night without nursing. Of course by then I was pregnant which probably played a role in his not needing to nurse as often.


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## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

My daughter is 18 months old and still nurses ~3 times during the night.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

My DD has always slept 5-6 hr. stretches from day 1. Most consider that sleeping through the night. IF she wakes to nurse it's once or maybe twice, very rarely will she wake more than twice.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I guess it would depend on your perception of "all night". I didn't co-sleep, but the babies were in our room by my side of the bed, in a bassinet. My older two BF, and I will tell you that after about 3-4 mos old, they did, indeed sleep through the night. Usually went to bed around 8 after eating, I "topped them off" around 11 or midnight and they slept until 5 or 6 am usually. Of course, there were deviations from their self-made "schedule", but that was the norm pretty much by 3 mos.

So, maybe I am not exactly like your friend, because the kids were not in our bed every night. But, I know that kids and sleep patterns differ. I know full-on co-sleepers whose kids do as your friend's do. It can happen and I would have no reason to doubt them.

To be honest, this board is the first place where I have EVER heard of BF babies who are on the boob for HOURS at a time. I mean, I nursed on demand, and they did more during growth spurts, but I never had a child literally attached to me for hours at a time.

So, I guess we all learn something new sometimes.


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## KayCSmommy (Jan 9, 2007)

I co-sleeped, and breastfeed my son, and he from day one would sleep through the night. When he was a newborn and before I went back to work, he would sleep from around midnight when I would feed him and go to bed till between 7-9am. Now that I work he sleeps from 8am until between 5 and 7am without waking up. He still does sleep through the night, although he usually sleeps in his crib now. For the first month or two, I had to constantly try to wake him up to eat, night and day. I had what the doctors called a sleepy baby. I had a hard time waking him up especially the first week, even the hospital nurses had a hard time getting him to wake. I had to pump alot at first because he was constantly falling asleep 5-6 mins after starting to eat.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

I would check what her definition of "all night" is. For me that means 12 hours but when I questioned some of my friends whose babies slept "all night" I found they meant from 12-5am or something - that is no where near "all night" imo!









My lo only ever really woke once at night-about 4am from birth really. To start with he went to bed at midnight with us (after cluster feeding for 5 hours straight







)and we gradually moved his bedtime back to about8/9ish. He continued to wake at 4am until he was about 21 months when he started reliably sleeping through (ie 11/12 hours).


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## KayCSmommy (Jan 9, 2007)

The defination of sleeping all night for an infant, is 5 or more hours through the night with unirrupted sleep.


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayCSmommy* 
The defination of sleeping all night for an infant, is 5 or more hours through the night with unirrupted sleep.

From where? I think if your baby "sleeps through the night" that means that they sleep from when you put them to bed at night so 7/8pm until 7am in the morning say. Now I think that is unusual (although not unheard of for 4 months olds) but most babies I know would definatley sleep for at least 4/5 hours at a time by 4 months old. So I guess it depends what your definition is - that's why I suggested the op ask her friend because when I asked mine their definition differed a lot from mine! lol


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Both of my children slept "through the night" from about 3 months old until about 6 months old. DS was at about 6-8 hours at a stretch, and DD was 10+ hours at a stretch, which blew my mind...but I knew it wouldn't last...

...cause then, they started teething.







:.









DS stopped nursing at night by his own choice (would actually refuse the breast) at around 9 months old







...he'd just wake up and snuggle, and then go back to sleep.

DD is up anywhere between 1 and 3 times at night now to nurse for a few minutes and then drifts back to sleep for a few more hours.

Darn teeth.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

My three were tummy sleepers, and slept 4-5 hour stretches from birth, then about one month old extended that to 6-7 hours. So yes... but I think the tummy was the reason - just so much more comfy and warm.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Mine slept through the night from about four months. She was EBF and coslept from day one. Imagine my surprise when she ended up with huge sleeping problems from about 3 years on







:

Edit: Wanted to add when I say "slept through the night" I mean an 8-9 hour stretch.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I definitely don't think her kids are the norm.

My second baby slept at least 6-8 hour stretches at night from about a month old, but my daughter woke up at least every three hours.


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## curlygrrl (Jan 22, 2004)

I don't remember the particulars now but my now 6 year old did stop night nursing pretty early, not 4 months but probably about 9-10 months. Just like everything, I think it's totally individual. I do think that stopping night nursing at 3-4 months is the execption from the norm rather than the norm. Don't waste your energy discussing it with her any more, just be happy for her and move on!


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *attachedmamaof3* 
Not a SINGLE one of my three children have EVER slept through the night while they were nursing/co-sleeping...In fact, we're going through the 2.5 yr old who wants his own bed but still wakes up between 12-2a and climbs into bed with us every night phase right now...Is she for real? Or is she exaggerating???

No, she swears that's how it was for her kids. And I think that's great, and I believe her. I just haven't found that to be the case for anywhere even close to the rest of us. I don't think she was exaggerating either. I agree that sleeping through the night is a five hour stretch. I have to respectfully disagree on one other point though. I don't consider it to be "sleeping" when a baby rouses and wakes to the point of needing to switch sides, or nurse or take a bottle or whatever they need for soothing back to sleep. If I am wakened every 2 hours by my restless baby that needs latched on to the breast, that's not sleeping. That's night waking. And that means that I haven't had a stretch of sleep longer than 2-3 hours for most of 8 years now. I absolutely agree that co-sleeping results in more CUMULATIVE sleep for mom and baby than sleeping separately and having to get ut of bed to feed a baby. (UGGGHH!!! I co-sleep because I'm lazy!







) And while co-sleeping children probably don't rouse to the point of needing to escalate to crying to get their needs met, or get up and play at odd times of night.... it's still not "sleeping through the night". I think either my friend's memory is a little hazy and she has some mild anxiety about having a new baby soon (that according to all her friends around her will night wake every 2-3 hours like all the rest of ours do) or she had perfect children!!


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *curlygrrl* 
I don't remember the particulars now but my now 6 year old did stop night nursing pretty early, not 4 months but probably about 9-10 months. Just like everything, I think it's totally individual. I do think that stopping night nursing at 3-4 months is the execption from the norm rather than the norm. Don't waste your energy discussing it with her any more, just be happy for her and move on!









Oh I actually totally agree. We don't argue until she says "I just don't understand how these kids don't sleep! Mine slept through the night...... blah blah blah."


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think DS started sleeping through the night consistently around age 4 *YEARS.* I don't remember when the girls did it but it was long after weaning (14 and 30 months.)

DS did sleep through the night at about 5-6 weeks old but then stopped when I went back to work when he was 7 weeks old.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TattooedMama* 
Oh I actually totally agree. We don't argue until she says "I just don't understand how these kids don't sleep! Mine slept through the night...... blah blah blah."









If she keeps on bringing it up, I'd be hard pressed to keep myself from responding "well, it's because your kids were freaks!"

Not that I think her kids were really freaks or anything- just that if she's going to imply that there's anything "abnormal" about *your* kids sleeping habits, I'd be tempted to point out that it's actually *her* kids who are "abnormal" in their sleep patterns.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

All of mine woke up through the night through age five and beyond BUT I will side with your friend a little bit because many times I have woken up to find an attached nursing babe and they found their way there! She may be a very deep sleeper who didn't wake up when her children nursed.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I co-sleep, and DS has been sleeping incredibly good the past few nights - a good 3 hour stretch, followed by nurshing and hten a good 5 hour stretch - though last night it was *TWO* 5 hours!! ::dance:: Of course, then again, other nights its ever stinking hour, so...


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
If she keeps on bringing it up, I'd be hard pressed to keep myself from responding "well, it's because your kids were freaks!"

Not that I think her kids were really freaks or anything- just that if she's going to imply that there's anything "abnormal" about *your* kids sleeping habits, I'd be tempted to point out that it's actually *her* kids who are "abnormal" in their sleep patterns.

Ruthla a BIG







:
That's the whole issue right there, I couldn't have summed it up better myself. I truly believe that everyone that has posted; as well as my friend and myself, have kids that are NORMAL. Everyone is within the realm of normal. I have never thought my kids sleeping was so UN-normal until it has been pointed out to me.







:


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
DS did sleep through the night at about 5-6 weeks old but then stopped when I went back to work when he was 7 weeks old.

Yeah me too with my last kids they actually did sleep for a 3-5 hour stretch several nights a week until I went back to work at 12 weeks. And then like PP have said you start getting into pre-teething and developmental milestones and whatnot and who knows why else kids start waking.








I just say blessings to anyone who gets a fair amount of sleep and you have my complete sympathy to anyone that doesn't.


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

My babe is 4 months and wakes at least twice a night which is rare and at most 5 times a night. He will give me a 4 hour stretch when things are going well and then wake about every 2 hours after that. I plan to start working on getting him to sleep longer though. I think it also depends on the personality of the baby. My guy is very active and alert and easily wakes. He is a poor napper. He also only nurses for 5 minutes at 1 breast, so I think he needs to nurse more frequently to keep up his calorie intake.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

My co-sleeping/BF baby slept "thru the night" starting at about 7 weeks. To me "thru the night" was defined by 5-6 hours stretches. I would nurse him and put him down around 7:30-8:00 pm, he would wake at around midnight and start nursing and we would both fall asleep until 6:00 or 6:30 am. To this day (he is 5 1/2) he continues to be a "good" sleeper.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

My dd slept through the night from 12 weeks old till 16 weeks old, no clue why, and no clue why she suddenly stopped, but she did it. After 16 weeks old though she woke up every single hour to nurse...we night weaned her at 12 months (stupidest thing I've ever done...but in retrospect it was probably the best for me and ds since I had severe hyperemesis). She nursed till she was 4 and co-slept till she was 3 1/2.

My ds slept all night long the first time at 9 months old, and was sleeping all night long 50% of the time at 1, 75% of the time at 15 months, and 100% of the time at 18 months old. he nursed till 23 months old and co-slept till 18 months old (but he had been sleeping all night long for a couple weeks before he insisted on sleeping with his sister instead of mommy and daddy...DD requested her own bedroom at 3 1/2...if I had known she was serious and it would of been a permanent thing I would of said no







).


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## Bindweed (Mar 31, 2007)

Well, for us "through the night" means, as long as we sleep. We always went to bed together (still do with our youngest) and get up together, so we're talking 8 - 12 hour steetches here.

Also I need to correct myself about my earlier post, their father just reminded me about how our second would nurse himself at night.







Sometimes I would wake up with little hickies and sometimes he would actually find the nipple!







But even he deffinetly stopped this before four months, I clearly remember him sleeping through the night at four months.

I comepletely agree with Ruthla about a response to your friend.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I guess it would depend on your perception of "all night". I didn't co-sleep, but the babies were in our room by my side of the bed, in a bassinet. My older two BF, and I will tell you that after about 3-4 mos old, they did, indeed sleep through the night. Usually went to bed around 8 after eating, I "topped them off" around 11 or midnight and they slept until 5 or 6 am usually. Of course, there were deviations from their self-made "schedule", but that was the norm pretty much by 3 mos.

.

My son goes to bed at 7, up at 12 and 4, and I in no way consider that through the night. I'm praying for the day when at least one of those feedings gets dropped.


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## 4Marmalade (May 4, 2004)

Oh, seriously? My dd does not sleep through the night. Even going by the standard 5 hour definition. I so wish I could sleep through the nursings. I used to but since about 15 months she insists on switching sides about 3-4 times and I can't sleep through that. I'm sure that some cosleepers have been lucky in that their dc's sleep through the night but I take great comfort in knowing that most don't. I don't know anyone else IRL who cosleeps and most of them have dc's who "sleep through the night". But, in almost all cases they also engaged in some form of CIO technique.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TattooedMama* 
I feel she tries (albeit subtly) to imply that my 4 month old waking every 2-3 hours is abnormal.

Um, ime that is NOT normal.







Try every hour or so, and you got a good pic of what was happening in MY house when ds was 4 mos old.

I don't think ds hit the 5 hour mark consistently until he was older than 2years old. hehehe


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

: My 2 year old is barely sleeping through the night and that's partially due to night weaning. And you know what? She STILL doesn't sleep through the night!







She wakes every so often and resettles herself and goes back to sleep. She's tiny. She's in a bed with two other people. We all move. We ALL wake up at night.









ETA: Keep in mind that "through the night" also equals 5 hours of sleep. So your babe could easily sleep through the night at one stretch and just not the rest of it.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Please. We're doing the happy dance if DS sleeps more than 3 hrs. He's *never* slept more than 4. Oh wait, once, w/ DH, after I had surgery and he hadn't napped all day. But then he was up every 2 hrs after that one stretch. One 5 hr stretch in 23 months!!!!!







:

At my last LLL meeting there were a bunch of new moms and the older leader (children in college now) was extolling cosleeping and said how you never heard of a cosleeper advocating against it. I wanted to stand up and yell, HA! MEET HER NOW!!! GET THEM IN THEIR OWN BED OR YOU'LL NEVER SLEEP!!! but I restrained myself.









I'm just about to post asking how to get them to sleep w/out nursing because I truly feel the beboes are the root of all our not-sleeping issues.


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## Stephanie L. (Jun 7, 2005)

Us, too. I have nursed every day for the last 4 years & 7 months. Half of that time must have been in bed! My children co-sleep and nurse a lot at night, and it's usually every 2-3 hours. Lately with some teething (24 mo. old) it's about 20-40 minutes at night (and almost hourly in the daytime).

I have never heard of any child co-sleeping through the night, either. I certainly would hope it happens somewhere, but would question the validity of the claim. Is this friend generally sincere and honest or has she been known to fabricate and embellish?

hmmm, I just don't know...


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Well, my two that slept in bed with me pretty much all the time woke frequently. My daughter, though, slept next to my bed (in a crib or bassinet) until she was 7 or 8 months old, and rarely woke. Then she moved to my bed, and continued to sleep through most nights. My oldest son is 6 and hasn't coslept in a couple of years, and still mostly doesn't sleep through. My youngest (19 months) nurses all nigght long. He doesn't wake much, though, unless the breast isn't easily accessable. (i wake up though, when he starts nursing.)


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## feminist~mama (Mar 6, 2002)

I didn't read all the replies- but you should make a poll!!!

My dd nursed and co-slept until she was four. 5-6 hours sleep was the max ever, and that was as a 4-year-old!!

Her kids were AWESOME sleepers, not at all average!


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

My son cosleesps and does NOT sleep through the night, never. He is 22 months old and nurses a few times during the night.


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## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

All of my kids are fairly good sleepers. All were "sleeping through the night" (as defined by stretches of at least 5 hours) by about 6-9 months MOST of the time. If they were sick/teething/just feeling wonky they slept more like 3-4 hours. I remember a few up every 2 hours nights, but they have been rare. By age 3, the older two were sleeping fully through the night (at least 8 hours without waking me up), but they had been moved into their own beds by then.

DC#3 still co-sleeps. She slept a full night last night for the first time (9:30 p.m.-6:45 a.m.)


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## meghandmama (Apr 26, 2005)

i don't buy that one bit. no way. unless she gave them tylenol or something like that and wasn't telling you the whole story...! she wasn't talking about just ONE kid but TWO. i just don't believe it. it feels to me like this is a very competitive friendship/relationship you 2 have...


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## noah's mom (Jan 3, 2006)

DS is almost 23mos and every once in awhile he'll throw me for a loop and sleep a long stretch - did it twice this past week as a matter of fact, slept 10 hours straight 1 night and 9 hours the next...and then last night was back to waking every 1-2 hours! (and that's even with the before-bed dose of ibuprofen I've been giving him lately - he's working on 2 yr molars) And yes, we cosleep and yes, I bf. (btw, those nights DS "slept through" didn't do me any good b/c I'm so conditioned to wake up that I was awake every 3 hours anyway! Can someone sleep train _me_???)

I am pg with #2 and I am PRAYING for one of those "dream" babies that actually sleeps longer stretches consistently. I have heard rumors they exist









Although I find it possible that maybe 1 or at most 2 of your friend's kids were "good" sleepers, the majority of times I've heard about such kids it's been just 1 out of the bunch! For example, DS's first dcp had 3 kids, she said the first was sleeping practically through the night from birth and took 4-HOUR naps, she got so spoiled with him! But then the 2 that followed were "normal" sleepers and she had a very rude awakening, as it were...(do ya like my sleep puns????)


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meghandmama* 
i don't buy that one bit. no way. unless she gave them tylenol or something like that and wasn't telling you the whole story...! she wasn't talking about just ONE kid but TWO. i just don't believe it. it feels to me like this is a very competitive friendship/relationship you 2 have...

No, she didn't dose them with Tylenol. And I know she isn't exaggerating unless maybe they just started sleeping through the night later than she remembers, (not as early as 4 months.) I know her oldest definitely was co-sleeping with Daddy and not waking because she went back to work at night after realizing her child would sleep and not need to nurse. She was just lucky is kind of the consensus I'm seeing after hearing all the responses.


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noah's mom* 
Although I find it possible that maybe 1 or at most 2 of your friend's kids were "good" sleepers, the majority of times I've heard about such kids it's been just 1 out of the bunch! For example, DS's first dcp had 3 kids, she said the first was sleeping practically through the night from birth and took 4-HOUR naps, she got so spoiled with him! But then the 2 that followed were "normal" sleepers and she had a very rude awakening, as it were...(do ya like my sleep puns????)

Yes, I LOVE your sleep puns,








I think maybe you're right about not all the kids in the bunch turning out to be good sleepers. I would have some anxiety too if I was expecting another baby and I kept hearing that no one else's kids slept dreamily like mine did (imagining myself in her shoes.) I would be nervous too that I would be up waking FREQUENTLY like the rest of us!!


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Ds started out with a 4 hour stretch. By 3-4 months he would have a 6-7 hour stretch. He has always been a deep sleeper, though. Dd has night weaned herself in the past couple of months at age 2 1/2. She has always been a light sleeper. She never went more than 2 hours between nursing until she was over 17 1/2 months. It was often every 45 minutes at night and totalling 20-30+ times in a 24 hour period at that age. I really think that personality and sleeping style had a lot to do with the differences between my two kids. Ds is 4 1/2. Dd is 2 1/2. They are both still in the family bed and dd still nurses. We'll see if any of this changes when we add baby 3 to our family bed in a couple of months.


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## KayCSmommy (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
From where? I think if your baby "sleeps through the night" that means that they sleep from when you put them to bed at night so 7/8pm until 7am in the morning say. Now I think that is unusual (although not unheard of for 4 months olds) but most babies I know would definatley sleep for at least 4/5 hours at a time by 4 months old. So I guess it depends what your definition is - that's why I suggested the op ask her friend because when I asked mine their definition differed a lot from mine! lol

I was told by my lactation consultant 1st, and then by my sons doctor. I have also read it several other places. So yes when people say their kids sleep through night and it is only 5 or 6 hrs then for a baby that is sleeping through the night. My son would have sleep 12 hrs straight if I let him, but I didnt like him going that long with out eating. So I would wake him at midnight to feed him and then around 7 or 8 when I would wake up. Then he would go right back to sleep till I woke him to feed him. (This was for the first 9-10 weeks) Then when I started back to work when he was 11 weeks I would give him is last feeding at 9 and wake him at 4:30 to feed him before I went to work. When I got home I would feed him first thing which was around 9 -10. Most the time he hadnt woke up yet from the last time I feed him. Now that he is 11 mo and since he was about 6-7 mo I still feed him at 4:30, but he now goes to bed between 8-8:30. He is usually up for the day by 7 or 8 in the morning. He actually hasnt been waking up at 4:30-5:30 the last week, for a bottle.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

As far as your friend getting mad when you tell her that her kids sleeping through the night is not the norm and she's lucky... it might be that she wants to consider that her kids sleeping so well at night was NOT just luck, but something that she specifically did, so perhaps that's why she gets upset. Maybe she feels like you are insinuating that there's no way she could've helped her kids to sleep like that and that it's purely luck and no skill (which very well might be the case). Just a thought.









That being said... I'm a co-sleeper and I cannot imagine sleeping through the night (yet) - especially with BF!! My 3.5 month old wakes about every three hours, but it really is pretty easy since I just pull out the boob and go back to sleep. Sometimes I won't remember if we've fed or not, but then I'll look down and my boob will still be out and DS will be happily snoozing, so we must have!


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## Turkish Kate (Sep 2, 2006)

Well call me lucky, then. I have two excellent sleepers. DD, now 13, slept with me and slept through the night starting around six weeks of age. For us, that meant from around 10 or 11 pm until around 7 am. No Tylenol, liquor, cereal, or any other "additives." DS is almost 6 weeks and sleeps from 9 or 10 until 5:30, when he wakes to nurse and then generally goes back to sleep until 7 or so. He co-sleeps also and is exclusively breastfed. He gained over a kilo in his first month, so he's not missing anything. My children are not "freaks," just on the other end of the continuum of normal, thankyewverymuch.


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## ryleigh'smama (Aug 10, 2005)

There are so many factors in this. My dd (26 months) has just recently started sleeping through the night (usually from 8pm-5am then snuggles and sleep for another hour). She woke a ton up until then, even after she weaned. She just needed to touch someone, fuss a little, and go back to sleep. Ds (3 months) so far (fingers crossed) has slept through the night more often than not. He goes to bed at 7pm and will consistantly sleep until 3am without waking, then nurse, and go right back to sleep until between 6-7 am. I know that there will be times (teething, etc.) when this will not be the norm for him, but it was NEVER that way with dd...EVER. So long way of saying, I think it depends a lot on the baby.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

I haven't read all the replies, but it seems that the consensus is that a 3-4 month old sleeping through the night (5+hours) is rather unusual. None of my kids did, and the youngest and oldest are nursed and the middle one bottlefed (EBM). The two oldest are now sleeping on their own and are mostly in bed the entire night (I, honestly can't tell you if they are "sleeping" that entire time, but at least they aren't coming and waking me







). My youngest is not quite 17 months, and still waking frequently to nurse during the night.


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

Um yeah, minus a couple weeks around a year....dd didn't start sleeping THROUGH the night until a little after she weaned COMPLETELY! Even if she wasn't nursing during the night, she was still waking up!

ETA: Dd just weaned at 27 months.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

My experience is that my babies do start sleeping through the night sleeping with us sooner or later, but eventually they revert back to alot of nightwaking and that is the point where we are all ready for a new sleep arrangement. From all the stories I've heard, I would say your friend *is* lucky and should not consider her children the norm. Some people can sleep through nursing too, while I never could.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

well that is in no way norm here my dd never slept threw the night till she was 3.5 waking for milk even now at almost 5 she still dont sleep threw the night every night my ds is 6 months and has only once slept for about 6 hours straight never threw the night he wakes about 4 times in the night maybe more he only takes one side a feeding most times


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## ar2974 (Nov 19, 2006)

My dd is 9 months old and she sleeps through the night most nights. Occassionally she wakes up around 11 when I go to bed and nurses for a minute or two and once in a while she wakes up around 4 or 5 and nurses. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if she woke up to nurse more often cos I hardly wake up at all and she doesn't nurse during the day when I'm at work, but since she was very little she has always felt that night time is for sleeping. I am very lucky. Most babies and not like this - and I keep expecting her to decide that she doesn't want to sleep at night.


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## onyxravnos (Dec 30, 2006)

ds sleeps through the night when hes with me. once we are down for the night i only have to wake up once to change/feed him.







I though that was the norm? maybe once he's older it will change.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

well, I didn't bf DS1, but we co-slept & I'd have to get up to pump & bottle-feed.
With DS2, we coslept and bf'd and I'd say we both slept through the night pretty early on - as soon as he learned how to latch on and nurse without waking up








I'd wake briefly to "rotate sides", but we slept very well.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

dd1 is almost 4 and still nurses to sleep and wakes to nurse.
dd2 is 15 months and does not nurse to sleep and she sleeps through the night, and has from birth.

I haven't changed a thing. I tandem nurse them and cosleep with them both still. They just have *very* different personalities.


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## mumpet (Apr 25, 2007)

I co sleep and am woken pretty much 2-3 hourly all night, more like 2 hourly really, baby is 7mo. I was just about driven nuts and thought the universe was playing tricks on me because every other mum I met had young babys that slept through!! arrrghhh! Anyway I'm glad to have found this forum. Also my partner sleeps in a separate bed...he seems quite happy. But I notice other people dont seem to like the idea. Someone asked me if he was sleeping in his own room yet and I said no but husband is! Ha ha ps Im new here, what does ds and dd actually stand for, (forgive my ignorance)


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## captainkitty (Apr 19, 2007)

My XDP always told people that our DD "slept through the night" starting at two weeks old. Ha. What he meant was that HE slept through the night, because she never cried after I learned how to nurse lying down & started co-sleeping so she could just latch on. It is easy for me to go back to sleep so these nightwakings have never bothered me, but she is now 31 months, we still cosleep & nurse, and she still wakes up 1-2 times a night to nurse, no exceptions.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mumpet* 
I co sleep and am woken pretty much 2-3 hourly all night, more like 2 hourly really, baby is 7mo. I was just about driven nuts and thought the universe was playing tricks on me because every other mum I met had young babys that slept through!! arrrghhh! Anyway I'm glad to have found this forum. Also my partner sleeps in a separate bed...he seems quite happy. But I notice other people dont seem to like the idea. Someone asked me if he was sleeping in his own room yet and I said no but husband is! Ha ha ps Im new here, what does ds and dd actually stand for, (forgive my ignorance)

Welcome to MDC







dd is "dear daughter" ds is "dear son" dp "dear partner" and dh "dear husband"

There are others here who sleep in a different bed from their husbands, like me. We actually sleep in different rooms too. I miss him sometimes, but he doesn't seem to mind and it works for us right now. And ya.. I get peoples negative comments about that all the time. The ones about me causing the downfall to the marriage bed and divorce is coming are the best.


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## foehnjye (Mar 4, 2005)

DD#1 woke frequently throughout the night until she turned 2, and then remarkably started sleeping through the night--the whole night!! She weaned herself at 2 yr. 4 mos and continues to sleep all night to this day (she's 4.5). DD#2 is 18 mos and her nights are variable...some nights she wakes frequently to nurse (like last night, for instance when she woke 2x each HOUR until about 4:30 and then slept until 7.:yawning







But on other nights she'll fall asleep around 9:30 or 10 and sleep until 5. For her, I think teething is her main waking factor.


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## aidensmama (Jul 2, 2004)

my oldest woke up all night long every night until we night weened at over 2yo, my 5mo. has slept 8-9 hours a night every night since he was 2 weeks old (he really has and I keep waiting for it to end, I'm still so sure that it well, but I'm enjoying it now while it lasts







) we didn't do anything differently, just different kids


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

My almost 4 yo ds has slept 7 hours without waking me to nurse ONCE in his life. As a newborn he used to sleep 5 hours, nurse once, go back to sleep for 3 hours. He even slept 6 hours once before waking to nurse. But by 2-3 months of age the nightwaking started and never stopped. He wakes every 1-2 hours and I have to comfort him back to sleep. I think it was teething that started it, but I have no clue why he has not outgrown this nightwaking. I think I have to nigtwean - but that is going to be hard and exhausting and I am dreading it.







:


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## jdmcgee (Apr 12, 2007)

My second daughter is almost 11 months old. She wakes 2-5 times every night to nurse. We are trying an experiment tonight though. I just nursed her to sleep and put her in her crib (she has napped in there only a handful of times). Usually she sleeps and naps in our bed but she is crawling everywhere and I thought she may need to start napping in her crib so she does not fall off the bed. Anyway, we were curious if she would sleep better if she was not in our bed. My guess is she will be up in the next hour or two and will be back in our bed with us...which is where I like her.


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## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

My 2 year old dd sleeps with us, AND is breastfeeding ( to sleep too) and sleeps through the night. If she does wake, I or dh pats her back and tells her to go back to sleep. And she does. She started doing this around 18 months.

My ds wasn't co sleeping but slept through the night at 3 months with no cio and was breastfed and breastfed to sleep. He ended up co sleeping with us because he was nightwaking around 18 months and began to nurse at night again. I nightweaned him around 26 months and continued to cosleep with him till he was almost 3.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

My cosleeping bf toddler was 3 when she slept really long stretches at night.


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## box_of_rain (Mar 16, 2006)

My 21 month old still wakes up 3 or 4 times at night (from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m.-ish). I think it's totally normal for him. I still haven't gotten more than a four hour stretch of sleep since he's been born...

Heck - my 9 year old _still_ doesn't sleep through the night, but he stays in his bed unless he needs me.

We are cosleepers - my older son has been in his own bed since he was around 5, but he knows he can sleep with us when he wants/needs to.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

My 3 year old slept through the night from 4-6 mos of age. At 6 mos, I got my period, my supply dropped (not bad enough to worry, but enough to make him nurse more often) and he started teething. He started sleeping through the night again around 18 mos of age. He just weaned about 6 weeks ago or something like that.

My oldest didn't sleep through the night until he was around 4, and I weaned him at 15 mos.

Liam still wakes up a lot, but it has gotten much better since he started Zantac.

I think there is a wide range of normal and neither your kids nor your friends are odd.


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## Chronic Chrissy (Sep 4, 2006)

My DD selpt through the night for a little over the first month. Now at 9 months we have full nights sleep for phases and then phases where she gets up a few times a night. Then there are times when we are co-sleeping and we need to move her and that results in her waking up and then being soothed back to sleep instead of nursing.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

My daughter sleeps soundly from 10 to 10 and we cosleep.


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## melissel (Jun 30, 2004)

I haven't read all the posts, but did your friend do pacifiers, or did her kids suck their thumbs or have loveys?

My first woke every two-three hours to nurse until I nightweaned her. My second has been sleeping through the night (with the exception of bad teething periods) since she was about 3 months old. But she also sucks her thumb and has a wooby.


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## pazerific (Oct 25, 2006)

i too haven't had time to read all of the posts, but i will proudly stand and be counted as one of the few co-sleeping families with a dc that sleeps through the night. our dd started sleeping through the night by about 2-2.5mos. she started having a difficult time sleeping at about 6 mos when she was getting her first teeth, and then mellowed out by 7mos. but then at 8mos she went on a nursing strike that is still going on 6mos later. i pump for her now, but aside from teething, she slept through the night very early on.

i don't think anyone with dcs that wake at night are doing anything wrong, i just think we got really lucky, and i definitely think our dd is not the norm as far as her sleep habits goes. and as far as the pp (melissel) mentioned, my dd has never taken a pacifier, and just recently adopted a blankey, but i don't think it has any bearing on her sleep habits.


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## Selah L. (Apr 24, 2007)

What a funny night to be reading this thread - my 11 month old is sleeping at this very moment in his crib for the first time. He's been in bed with us and has NEVER slept through the night. I can't even count the number of times he snacks throughout the night when he's in bed with us.

It's not that I'm calling your friend a liar but it's so hard to imagine what she says to be true, mostly because I can't see beyond my own sleepy experience I guess. But instead of being jealous I'm going to try and be happy for her and embrace your idea of the spectrum of normal.


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## Twwly (Jan 30, 2007)

My 6.5 month old nurses 3-4 times a night. I can't imagine how upset/hungry he'd be if he went +5 hours without nursing! Just wouldn't happen.

He's never had a pacifier, has no blankey either. Just us.


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## KathleenSLP (May 23, 2004)

My DD slept through the night (8-10 hours) while cosleeping from 6 1/2 weeks of age to almost 5 months old. I then went back to work and she began nursing at night again - reverse cycling I think.

She's 20 months now and still wakes 1-3 times a night to nurse.

I think sleeping through the night is unusual when bfing and cosleeping but definitely not too unusual.


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## Teakafrog (Dec 23, 2005)

Mine wakes every 2-4 hours or so, all night. But it's ok, because I just latch her on and go back to sleep myself!


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

My son hasn't breastfed since he was 9 months old and doesn't regularly cosleep, and at 2 he STILL doesn't sleep through the night. He's done it a handful of times (usually during growth spurts), but usually he wakes up at least once or twice.


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## love2all (Dec 13, 2003)

All my dc's co-splept until age 4 or 5 or more and not a one of them slept thru the night until weening at about 3 years.......
I love my sleeping!!!! I missed it for 10ish years!!


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TattooedMama* 
... THE ONLY breastfeeding and co-sleeping Mom I have EVER heard say that. EVERYONE else I know has kids that wake every 1-3 hours ALL NIGHT LONG for basically the duration of their co-sleeping and nursing."


How long do you intend to cosleep and nurse?



















Yes, my infants woke that often, but once they hit a certain age, it stops. And once they are old enough to find the breast by themselves, they stopped waking me up, too.







(That latching-on-by-themselves stuff was in the general area of 8, 9 months old for all of them, give or take.)

And my oldest sleeps in another room about half the time, maybe three, four nights a week, and the other three or four nights a week is still in the family bed. And he's 9yo b'H. Along with my other three kids who are in the family bed every night, the youngest of whom is a few weeks from 3yo and is still nursing ... and no, she doesn't wake up every one to three hours either. Thank G!d.









They all stopped the waking-every-one-to-three hours thing in the general area of six months-ish, with occasional returns to it like during major teething periods, etc. Not a problem either way ... just part of parenting.

And the duration of cosleeping can be very long.







Years and years long. And all my kids weaned over age three, too. So you might want to rephrase the above sentence in re "basically the duration of" stuff in the OP.


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## NamastePlatypus (Jan 22, 2007)

Fortuntly these kids do exist, just not in my home!! They give me hope that my next MIGHT be like that!


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I guess it would depend on your perception of "all night". I didn't co-sleep, but the babies were in our room by my side of the bed, in a bassinet. My older two BF, and I will tell you that after about 3-4 mos old, they did, indeed sleep through the night. Usually went to bed around 8 after eating, I "topped them off" around 11 or midnight and they slept until 5 or 6 am usually. Of course, there were deviations from their self-made "schedule", but that was the norm pretty much by 3 mos.

So, maybe I am not exactly like your friend, because the kids were not in our bed every night. But, I know that kids and sleep patterns differ. I know full-on co-sleepers whose kids do as your friend's do. It can happen and I would have no reason to doubt them.

To be honest, this board is the first place where I have EVER heard of BF babies who are on the boob for HOURS at a time. I mean, I nursed on demand, and they did more during growth spurts, but I never had a child literally attached to me for hours at a time.

So, I guess we all learn something new sometimes.

Our arrangement was similar, except that baby went to bed in the bassinet and then joined us sometime between 3-7am.

My first slept 4-hour stretches from birth, except during growth spurts. He was an evening cluster feeder, and one of the theories on cluster feeding I've read is that baby is "tanking up" for a logner sleep. For us, that was very true. He'd cluster feed, nursing nearly constantly from 6 or 7pm until 11pm, and then he'd conk out from 11 or midnight for 4 hours. I'd put him in the bassinette that was right against the side of the bed, and when he awoke I'd usually just bring him in with us (though if I had to get up to change a diaper I'd sit up and rock while he ate). That 4-hour stretch gradually lengthened, until at 11-ish weeks he did 6 hours, and then 7. By the time I had to go back to work at 16 weeks, he was sleeping from 8pm, dream-feeding at midnight, and most mornings I got up at 6am, showered, then got him up, nursed him, and tucked him in next to daddy, who cared for him until noon when I got home from work.

Of course, I thought this was typical, until his little sister was born. Hah. She didn't cluster feed, but she didn't go longer than 3 hours between nursing sessions until she was 14 months old...


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## mrsdouglas5 (Oct 30, 2006)

I have to agree with the OP that this is both unusual and unlikely-BUT I hope it happens for us with our next baby








My DD is 13 months old, bfeeding and cosleeping since day 1 and has ALWAYS woken up 3-6 times per nite to nurse to sleep. I am looking for answers and may try the daddy nursing ideas I have read.


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *melissel* 
I haven't read all the posts, but did your friend do pacifiers, or did her kids suck their thumbs or have loveys?

My first woke every two-three hours to nurse until I nightweaned her. My second has been sleeping through the night (with the exception of bad teething periods) since she was about 3 months old. But she also sucks her thumb and has a wooby.

Nope, nothing but the breast. She didn't "schedule" feedings, but she definitely didn't nurse as frequently as I have. I think it is more similar to "feeding" vs. "nursing" as I think about it. Like her dc nursed to sleep and for meals. Mine nursed for a lot of reasons other than that. Maybe like a PP said, she didn't just get lucky.... she encouraged them to not nurse all night long. But, so my next question for everyone is..... HOW DO YOU DO THAT?????? If my dc wakes in the middle of the night, I don't know what to do other than nurse them back to sleep. I have to admit that IS creating a suck to sleep correlation. So it's like the chicken and the egg. Which came first? The frequent nightwaking or the frequent nightnursing?


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merpk* 
How long do you intend to cosleep and nurse?



















And the duration of cosleeping can be very long.







Years and years long. And all my kids weaned over age three, too. So you might want to rephrase the above sentence in re "basically the duration of" stuff in the OP.










I know.







I co-slept and nursed my oldest ds until he was 4. He woke and nursed frequently at night until he was night weaned at 2.5+ My middle ds also nursed at night every 1-2 hours until night weaned and moved to his own bed at 18-20 months when I was pregnant. So, I'll stand by my original post, in MY experience and in a great number of families I know IRL (the majority) their children nurse frequently at night (which is NOT sleeping THROUGH the night) until they were moved out of the family bed and/or are over the age of 2.5 on average. And I still think that is normal. Or can be normal.







No wonder mainstream folks think we are nuts. I guess I plan on nightnursing and co-sleeping again this time to around the same age, somewhere between 18 months and 4!


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TattooedMama* 
I guess I plan on nightnursing and co-sleeping again this time to around the same age, somewhere between 18 months and 4!










Why not eliminate the plan, and just nightnurse and cosleep till they're done?










I mean, I didn't plan on cosleeping with a 9yo, 7yo, 5yo and still-nursing almost-3yo b'H ... it just happened.










YKWIM?


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## TattooedMama (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merpk* 
Why not eliminate the plan, and just nightnurse and cosleep till they're done?










I mean, I didn't plan on cosleeping with a 9yo, 7yo, 5yo and still-nursing almost-3yo b'H ... it just happened.










YKWIM?










I guess you missed the tongue in cheek.... what I was saying was in reference to my past experiences with my first two dc and meaning that I DON'T have a "plan" as evidenced by the range of ages I mentioned.


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## mommyddeville (Nov 28, 2005)

I think my seven month old daughter is a pretty good sleeper, but she definitely doesn't sleep through the night. She sleeps next to me, and nurses for at least 1/2 of the night. She's either actively nursing or has my breast in her mouth. And it's normal.


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## lyttlewon (Mar 7, 2006)

I had a reverse cycler meaning she refused a bottle while I was at work and nursed all night. So at 3 months she was waking constantly to nurse.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Well, my son cosleeps, nurses and sleeps through the night... BUT this did not happen until after we nightweanted when he was 27mo, he's 31mo now.

That might not count for purposes of this survey.









I usually try to put him in his bed at the start of the night and he will wake to come into our room sometime later, but goes back to sleep without any parenting. If he starts in our bed, he will sleep straight through.


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