# They won't put shoes that fit on him!!



## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

My Nephew (well, really DHs 1st cousin but he's like a nephew to us) turned 2 in August. His mom (DHs aunt) works and he stays upstairs with DHs grandparents. Once a week, we take him to gymnastics class (just started this week... he's enrolled in the same class as our DD). We also occasionally take him to the zoo and on mini "outings" because he doesn't get out much.

He has had the same shoes since he began walking. He has other shoes- they have bought him nice new pairs of expensive Air Jordans and we have never seen him wearing them- we see him every day. He's always in a pair of size 5 gym shoes. The new shoes they bought him are a size 7, and his feet are roughly the size of my DDs (a little wider) and she wears a 7-8.

We've mentioned this to MIL, and mentioned it to DHs grandparents who take care of him the majority of the time. MIL says "if they hurt him he'd say something". His poor little toes are curled up in his shoes. We took him to the park and he did complain. We told MIL this and she said "Oh, he was probably just tired". (He was telling us "shoe shoe! oww!" and pointing to it).

We took him to gymnastics for the first time on Tuesday. We had to take his shoes off. When class was over and it was time to put them on... we couldn't get them on! Not me, not my DH. We took him home in his socks, and told MIL about the shoes. She insisted that they fit him.

Seriously- what do I do? They are not poor. His mother and father have very good jobs that pay well. He is always in expensive name brand clothing. He's always wearing the same shoes. I don't think he has a particular attachment to them.

I just feel SO bad for my poor nephew. His feet are the size of my DDs and they're being squeezed into shoes way too small! I don't want him to have foot problems in the future because of this. His shoelaces don't stay tied because the shoes are being stretched open to fit his foot in, and there is less lace to work with.

Should DH and I buy him a pair of shoes that fit him so that he can wear them when he's with us? I feel like that's overstepping our boundaries, since he's not our child, but I don't like the idea of swapping him into his old shoes when we get back home- you know? It's just so sad and really has me a bit frazzled.


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## QuestionGal (Feb 19, 2006)

ummm...how about "losing" the shoes the next time you have an outing? Passive aggressive yes but you've already talked about it. Do they still have the nice shoes?

Or lose the shoes and buy him a new pair to replace the ones you "lost"

what does the boy's mom say? is she aware of the situation?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

You talked to your MIL but did you talk to his mom and dad?

I think that would be my first step - kindly, but like "I noticed these shoes didn't fit...it is a health issue..." that kind of thing. (And it is. Feet NEED to develop properly.) If you can afford it, I'd even deliver a pair of 8s (or 9 if you think so) with the message like "I noticed these shoes didn't fit. It's crazy how kids grow overnight. And I was out anyway so picked these up...health...love...etc."

If not then - yeah I would get him a pair for when he was out with us. Poor kiddo. It sounds like just a weird hangup or something but ouch.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

"losing" the shoes does seem very passive agressive because I've brought it up so much!

I haven't brought it up to his mom recently, her and I have our differences and she thinks that I have a "holier than thou" attitude (even when I'm actually concerned). I did bring it up to her a few months ago and she said "Yeah, these shoes sure are getting old! We just got him a pair of blah blah...". His 13yo sister has a slight obsession with Air Jordans and has a collection- but I KNOW that she has several pairs that match her brother's and has showed me them but I have never once seen him wear them.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

lose the shoes. make something up. say you feel real bad and offer to buy a new pair bc of how awful you feel losing them. and then do buy a pair. that fit. cuz seriously, that would be helping. oor at least that is waht i would do in this case and i am one of those people who hate lying etc.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Could you buy something inexpensive (mock crocs or something) the next time you're out with him? Send him home with the larger shoes on, and explain that he was complaining about his shoes hurting, and you couldn't make him spend that much time walking around in shoes that were so painfully small.

Or, you could keep the inexpensive shoes with you, in case they send him with the small shoes again, and everytime you return him to them, return him in his socks with the small shoes in his diaper bag.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm confused how the people who care for this child can be in such denial about his shoe size. My experience is that it's impossible to put a size 7/8 foot into a size 5 shoe. It can be pretty hard to put size 5 shoes on a kid who actually has size 5 feet. I find you need to wrestle with shoes in general until you get to size 6 or 7.

If it comes down to you buying him shoes I wouldn't lose the current shoes. They might get "wet" and he might need to wear a pair "you had in the house for DD" but that she never wore for whatever reason.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks









ChetMC (Julie)- I know what it's like to wrestle to get shoes on- my DD had some pretty chunky feet- but it was do-able. I have no idea HOW they get the shoes on him. I've seen him napping in the play pen in his grandma's house still wearing the shoes- struck me as odd but I suppose it's just _that_ hard to get them on him. I know that DD and him must have the same shoe size (or very near it) by seeing them together at gymnastics. When he wears the shoes I mentioned, his feet look like little balls shoved into shoes. The shoes are the first shoes he got when he started walking earlier this year.

DH and I bought him an adorable outfit with mock crocs because he was staying with his grandma (I'll refer to her as GMIL) and his clothes weren't being changed... DH and I decided to buy him something and say "Oh, we were just at the store and thought this was cute". He wore the outfit once, and the shoes once but never again.

The only other pair of shoes I have seen him in while at GMILs house have been a HUGE pair of sandals, probably a size 9?? GMIL said she didn't know who they belonged to (she gets a LOT of visitors). He only wore them like three times.. but other than that he has always worn the extremely small pair. They used to fit. When they bought them they were big on him and I recall thinking that Robeez or something would be a more appropriate pair of "first walker" shoes than those (they don't flex at all and they were too big...) and then in the end figuring "well, at least he'll grow into them at some point". I didn't expect for him to grow in AND grow out of them AND continue wearing them


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## petitchou (Mar 10, 2008)

OMG, I just went through something similar! I stayed with my mom for a week when she was watching my nephew while my brother and SIL went to Spain on vacation. (Can't imagine leaving my little one so long so young...but I digress.) He and ds2 are about the same age - 17 and 15 months respectively. The first day, he had on size 4 sandals - and his entire big toe was hanging off the edge! I told my mom and she went to go find another pair and he only had one other pair - a size 5. His feet are the same size as ds2 - which after getting him sized is a size 7! My mom realized they were way too small too but she was afraid of offending SIL by saying anything.

I told my mom that I wanted to go the shoe store to look at fall shoes for my two kids anyway and that I thought we should all go and we could get shoes for dn there. She could then tell my SIL that she wanted to get shoes for all her grandkids and it was the salesperson that told her what size to get. It worked out really well and he's walking so much better now that he has shoes that fit and soles that are flexible.

Is there anyway to go somewhere to get him 'officially' sized while you're out one day? Or go to get dd sized while he is with you and do both at the same time? Maybe they'd listen more to a 'professional' opinion coming from someone else besides you.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

That's a really good idea! I just wouldn't want to get looked at like a horrible parent who shoves my kids feet into small shoes by the salesperson.. kwim? But I think we might try that the next time we go somewhere with him







My DD does actually need a pair play shoes for the fall.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yep, lose them at gymnastics and go fall shoe shopping for your DD after class. And try to figure out why the hell these people don't even change his clothes from day to day -- it sounds a bit neglectful.


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## ImaSophie (Sep 5, 2010)

Poor kid why aren't they changing him or putting him in proper fitting shoes that is mean IMO. I agree lose the shoes and just buy him new ones.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

he has shoes that fit,right? I mean they were bought and you saw them? I take him home withiut shoes and tell them "his shoes didn't fit anymore, so we tossed them, he should wear his new shoes"

and keep an eye out for other signs that mil/fil are stealing from the kiddo.


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## corysmilk (Jan 2, 2004)

Just do what is right for the child. are the shoes sentanmental? if so then could you forget them at your house, after buying him some special shoes/boots? and just forget them in the car or your house for a while untill you know that they will NOT fit him anymore.
Do not worry about offending anyone. it does not mater what they think of you.

but I do agree with the the poster who said it sounds a bit neglecful. why wouldn't they change him??


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## Qbear'smama (Jul 15, 2008)

I could not in good conscience bring those shoes back, they'll just end up shoving them on his poor feet again, throw them away!! When I was about 5 my grandmother insisted I wear shoes that were too small for me (she was a weird lady, she felt like shoes that size "should" fit a child my age and thought I was just being dramatic about them not fitting







) and I can still remember the pain of it, wearing shoes that are too small is torturous, whatever their issue is, lose the shoes!


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't think I would 'lose' them unless being honest with everyone was going to cause a big family uproar. I would simply buy new shoes and say (honestly) that he wore the new shoes out of the store and they threw away the others as they were three sizes too small.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *confustication* 
I don't think I would 'lose' them unless being honest with everyone was going to cause a big family uproar. I would simply buy new shoes and say (honestly) that he wore the new shoes out of the store and they threw away the others as they were three sizes too small.









Thats a good idea. I would not worry about what these people think of you. Throw them away and tell them and let the chips fall where they may. Poor little guy.

If you really can't do that I would keep a pair of cheap shoes handy and change into them when you pick him up and take them off when you get home (or just let him go bare foot) and return the shoes in his bag with "I am not putting those tiny ill fitting shoes on him. Please have him in ones that fit next time". Repeat repeat repeat.


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## Casha'sMommy (Dec 16, 2006)

I would absolutely "lose" those shoes at gymnastics. I'd then go to my nearest dept store/shoe store and buy the little guy some shoes. I'd go on and on about how bad I felt about losing the shoes and that I hope the replacements were suitable, etc, etc. I cannot imagine putting shoes so tiny on a little guy.
I feel sad for him. xoxoxo to your dn


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would also lose those shoes! "Gee, I was carrying them because they were just so hard to get them on him, I figured it was easier to just put them in the car, and then gosh, I must have put them down somewhere..."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
That's a really good idea! I just wouldn't want to get looked at like a horrible parent who shoves my kids feet into small shoes by the salesperson.. kwim?

I dunno, my kids' feet grow so fast that I've been surprised by growth spurts more than once. Poor ds, I yelled at him this summer for making holes in the toes of his shoes by dragging his toes (he does do this), only to find when we went to get him new shoes that he'd gone from a size 5 to a size 7! That's happened to us more than once







.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I dunno, my kids' feet grow so fast that I've been surprised by growth spurts more than once. Poor ds, I yelled at him this summer for making holes in the toes of his shoes by dragging his toes (he does do this), only to find when we went to get him new shoes that he'd gone from a size 5 to a size 7! That's happened to us more than once







.


DD jumped from a size 11 to a size 2.5 over the course of about 3 months. I felt like the Worst Mom Ever when we went shoe shopping.







It happens.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

not changing his clothes or maing him wear shoes that dont fit even after being told they dont fit is neglect. i am suprised they hadnt had a visit from CPS yet. they get called on people for less. sigh.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I've "lost" shoes before too.

If you put your hand inside the shoes, and feel the indentations on the inside where his toes were. They should not be up against the end of his shoes. There should be some space between the dents from his toes to the end of the shoes. If you can feel toe spots at the very ends of his shoes, his shoes are REALLY too small.

You can show them that if you think they'll listen. Otherwise, I have no problem with losing or ruining the old shoes and buying him new ones that fit. I'm not even above taking him to the children's shoe store WITH the parents and letting them size him so they can hear it from a "professional". If he were my nephew, I'd even buy the new shoes right there and leave the old ones in the store.

My sister in law would have just taken my child's shoes away and told me the truth. LOL. It's hard to argue when she says something, especially if she's right.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

I guess I'm alone here but.. not your kid, not your business. Have you actually mentioned this to his parents? Do you see him when he is in the care of his parents or only when he is in the care of his grandparents?


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Are the shoes in relatively good condition? Do you know a child who could use a pair of size 5 shoes? I'd buy the little guy some proper sized shoes and take him home in them. If anyone asked for the size 5s, I'd say that I'd like to give them to a child who needed them. If they really made a fuss, I'd give them the size 5s back. At least you'd have tried to help the kiddo.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Can you find him a pair of size 7's identical to the size 5's? Maybe the nephew is the one really attached to the shoes. Or for some reason your SIL or MIL are attached to that pair of shoes.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

The whole thing is just so crazy! I'm looking forward to hearing what ends up happening OP. Good luck!

BTW I think I would take the route of "oops, we must have misplaced them" after buying him a new pair while shoe shopping with dd as well. Then I'd hold on to them to either give to a kid who could use them or give back to SIL in several months/a year when there's no way they could even force them back on his poor little feet.

And I am generally a "your kid, your business" kind of person (as a pp mentioned), but I think this, for me, goes past the point of being able to MYOB. I know this isn't actually abuse, but man... having too small shoes forced on you is really really painful (I remember at the end of highschool when I thought my feet had finally stopped growing and they spurted up 2 shoe sizes that I stubbornly bought the "old" size and it was torture), not to mention really bad for his physical development (I believe that not being able to walk properly affects your knees, hips and right on up your body - everything is connected yk).


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## montlake (Mar 13, 2008)

I would get him new shoes and get rid of the old ones. But I would claim to have "lost" them. Here, I got him new shoes and got rid of the others because they were too small and hurting his feet. Just be honest and matter of fact about it.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

The shoes are very worn. I wouldn't give them to another child.

I don't know if they make the style anymore, it's from early this year. He was about 15 or 16 months old I think, so perhaps even from the very end of last year.

I'm thinking of setting up another park playdate with them after gymnastics and having him play with DD (jump in puddles, mud, etc) and see if that gets the shoes worn enough for me to have an excuse to buy new ones. We're going apple picking sometime soon and if he comes along with us we can easily say that the shoes got dirty (which they likely will).

His parents are extremely lax. They're pretty oblivious to the obvious most of the time, but even when it is brought up, they don't really care much. My DH mentioned the shoes to his father today and he said "if they were too small he'd complain". The way people (MIL, GMIL, my DN's parents..) respond to us about this really makes me feel like we're overstepping our boundaries









I'll check the insides of the shoes next time- but I really doubt that I'll even feel "normal" toe impressions. His toes are curled up at the front of his shoe, you can feel this from the outside.


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## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

While I totally agree that the little guy needs to be in different shoes, the "oops, they disappeared" strategy rubs me the wrong way. I don't think it's best to throw out something that doesn't belong to you. I understand the urge to get rid of them, though.









I think that I would take him along when you take your own child shoe-shopping and have his feet professionally sized. Then, just tell his parents that he was with you at the store and the salesperson recommended a different (correct!) size, or even just buy them for him as an early Christmas gift or whatever...


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

After reading this thread I find it really sad that nobody else has taken the time to check out the kid's feet/shoes for themselves...just reverted to the "he'd complain" line. Not all kids are complainers, especially when they have learned that nobody listens. So, so freaking sad.

OP, go get his feet sized please. I don't think its overstepping a boundry to take care of family.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I don't think that the parents are the issue here. You mentioned there were new shoes, the air jordans, so getting the parents to buy new shoes isn't a problem. It's the grandparents who are refusing to let the poor kid wear his new shoes. Old people get funny about these things, and can go way way over board on frugality.

I would call his mom and say to her that the grandparents aren't letting him wear those adorable shoes she bought him. Mention what a shame it would be if he out grew the new shoes before he even got a chance to wear them considering all the thought she put into getting him and big sis matching shoes. Offer to do her a favor and not return his old shoes to the miserly grandparents.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
he has shoes that fit,right? I mean they were bought and you saw them? I take him home withiut shoes and tell them "his shoes didn't fit anymore, so we tossed them, he should wear his new shoes"

and keep an eye out for other signs that mil/fil are stealing from the kiddo.

Just curious but why would you assume that the grandparents are stealing from this child - I reread all of the OP's posts and see nothing that references them stealing.

If it was me I would either tell his parents or would buy him a new pair in the correct size but I wouldn't throw away his current pair because they aren't mine to dispose of in the first place.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I don't think that the parents are the issue here. You mentioned there were new shoes, the air jordans, so getting the parents to buy new shoes isn't a problem. It's the grandparents who are refusing to let the poor kid wear his new shoes. Old people get funny about these things, and can go way way over board on frugality.

I would call his mom and say to her that the grandparents aren't letting him wear those adorable shoes she bought him. Mention what a shame it would be if he out grew the new shoes before he even got a chance to wear them considering all the thought she put into getting him and big sis matching shoes. Offer to do her a favor and not return his old shoes to the miserly grandparents.


His parents are the ones that dress him each day and send him with the shoes. I have seen other pairs of shoes- but I think they get taken home with the older sister and just never worn by my dn.

I wouldn't throw them away either- seems wrong to me... they're not mine. I'd be pretty mad if someone threw away my child's shoes.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
His parents are the ones that dress him each day and send him with the shoes. I have seen other pairs of shoes- but I think they get taken home with the older sister and just never worn by my dn.

I wouldn't throw them away either- seems wrong to me... they're not mine. I'd be pretty mad if someone threw away my child's shoes.

I would bet that you could find a very inexpensive pair of gym shoes at Target (I too live in the Chicago area and noticed some "summer" gym shoes were 75% off at target this past week and were just $3!) that you could buy & call a gift without breaking the bank! I've been in the same position as you except it was my niece who didn't have a warm enough coat that fit one spring. I found a really marked down on sale coat at TJMaxx & bought it as a present!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
I wouldn't throw them away either- seems wrong to me... they're not mine. I'd be pretty mad if someone threw away my child's shoes.

ITA

One also must consider that there maybe something that one doesn't know about. For example, though DS's _shoes_ aren't that important to me, and I would just be mildly annoyed at their lose, DS wears very expensive prescription orthotics which are inside his shoes.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I suggest going to Payless for some shoes that fit when you are with him next time and giving him a gift of a teddy bear on the same day so you can put the shoes on the teddy bear. If you have good reason to believe that the shoes are too small then send him back to mil's in socks or if you are willing to splurge a lot on him do the buy one get one half off thing and send him back inside in one pair while keeping the other pair for when he visits.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
The shoes are very worn. I wouldn't give them to another child.

I don't know if they make the style anymore, it's from early this year. He was about 15 or 16 months old I think, so perhaps even from the very end of last year.

I'm thinking of setting up another park playdate with them after gymnastics and having him play with DD (jump in puddles, mud, etc) and see if that gets the shoes worn enough for me to have an excuse to buy new ones. We're going apple picking sometime soon and if he comes along with us we can easily say that the shoes got dirty (which they likely will).

His parents are extremely lax. They're pretty oblivious to the obvious most of the time, but even when it is brought up, they don't really care much. *My DH mentioned the shoes to his father today and he said "if they were too small he'd complain".* The way people (MIL, GMIL, my DN's parents..) respond to us about this really makes me feel like we're overstepping our boundaries









I'll check the insides of the shoes next time- but I really doubt that I'll even feel "normal" toe impressions. His toes are curled up at the front of his shoe, you can feel this from the outside.

I don't understand why your DH didn't respond with "yes he does complain about his feet hurting in those shoes". You said yourself said that he complains. The communication about this between people who are family members seems very strange. If it is a FACT that the kids shoes are too small its a very easy thing to verify. You take the parents, grandparents over to the kids foot and show them. Very very strange.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
His parents are the ones that dress him each day and send him with the shoes. I have seen other pairs of shoes- but I think they get taken home with the older sister and just never worn by my dn.

*I wouldn't throw them away either- seems wrong to me... they're not mine. I'd be pretty mad if someone threw away my child's shoes.*

If you have had a real discussion about the shoes not fitting with the parents, which it doesn't sound like you have, then no, don't throw away the shoes. When you have a real conversation with them, instead of just mentioning it, I mean not allowing them to just blow it off, actually showing them that his shoes don't fit and they still don't listen, then buy the kid shoes that fit and get rid of the other ones. It doesn't sound like anyone has actually pushed the issue. If the parents aren't with the child a lot while he is out and about in his shoes, they may not have heard him complain about them yet. Should they know that his shoes don't fit, yes, unless the child had a big growth spurt in shoe size and they just haven't noticed.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

Next time you pick him up, I wouldn't even leave their house with those shoes. I'd ask if he could wear some bigger ones because he keeps complaining about them, and because you can't get them back on if he takes them off.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Ya know.. you ARE his aunt. You have every right to say "He can't go with us unless he has a car seat." Or "If he's not wearing a coat". What's wrong with saying "He needs shoes that fit his feet". Then stand there and wait til they go get them for you.

You wouldn't take him out in November without his jacket. Right? So, put your foot down about the shoes. Poorly fitting shoes are no better than not being dressed for the weather.

Then, make a big deal to him about how nice he looks in his shoes. LOL. Even if he's little, he knows when he's looking good. My daycare kids come in with new shoes and can't wait for me to notice them. Besides, it's a proven fact that kids can run faster and jump higher in brand new shoes. Especially if they look cool too.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Maybe the next time you take him out, or are just visiting, and you see the size 5 shoes, the shoes could suddenly go missing. It is very easy to lose a pair of shoes, or at least 1 shoe which would make the pair unwearable. As if they are not unwearable now, but you get what I mean.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

This whole thread is so sad. I just do not GET someone doing that to their child!

I'm not sure I could toss them, but I might "lose" them and "find" them a lot later. Like, "Gee, can you believe it? They are so tiny they slipped under DD's carseat!" Or something.

I'm sorry, that must suck to see him in pain.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
Maybe the next time you take him out, or are just visiting, and you see the size 5 shoes, the shoes could suddenly go missing. It is very easy to lose a pair of shoes, or at least 1 shoe which would make the pair unwearable. As if they are not unwearable now, but you get what I mean.

That reminded me of this: my dd threw one of her shoes out of the window when she was that age, maybe you could roll down the windows when you are driving and remind him not to throw one out of the window to give him the idea.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

It's just impossible to reason with his parents- a converstaion simply cannot really happen with them about important stuff. Dad is too busy with work and his band (music) and mom is too busy with her new job and doesn't seem to always have two feet on terra firma- she's not "out there" by any means but she seems not to "get it" some of the time, but I think that is a product of her own upbringing on top of the fact that she's now caring for a 2 year old and hasn't done so for 11 years. I don't venture to say that her son is being brough up "wrong", but alot of their ways of doing things strike me as odd.

He gets dropped off EARLY in the am with GMIL so I dont see him when he's dropped off.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

could you just say you threw them out since they were small and picked him up a new pair?


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I like the "shoe got thrown out the window" idea, that's believeable.

About 10 years ago we were at the zoo with a friend and her daughter who was about two. My husband was holding the little girl over the tiger exhibit and she managed to fling her shoe off and into the tiger exhibit, it was unbelieveable. She ran around the rest of the zoo with one shoe and then we had to buy her a new pair.


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## LemonPie (Sep 18, 2006)

Take him splashing in mud puddles and get them thoroughly wet, right before you are going somewhere else. Then get him an inexpensive pair that fit and tell his mom, "We didn't want him to have to wear wet shoes all day!"


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
It's just impossible to reason with his parents- a converstaion simply cannot really happen with them about important stuff. Dad is too busy with work and his band (music) and mom is too busy with her new job and doesn't seem to always have two feet on terra firma- she's not "out there" by any means but she seems not to "get it" some of the time, but I think that is a product of her own upbringing on top of the fact that she's now caring for a 2 year old and hasn't done so for 11 years. I don't venture to say that her son is being brough up "wrong", but alot of their ways of doing things strike me as odd.

He gets dropped off EARLY in the am with GMIL so I dont see him when he's dropped off.

People have given you a ton of advice and none of it is working for you. So either leave it alone or do something about it.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Why don't you just ask them? All this passive aggressive stuff...ew. My mom does stuff like that, "losing"clothes that ds wears to her house, "accidentally" giving dd formula, etc. Just ask them straight out. Bring the kid back with the shoes off and say "can you show me how you get his shoes on, because I can't do it. they look too small to me. I can't get them on, next time he comeswith me send him in some bigger shoes that I can get on his feet." end of story.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
People have given you a ton of advice and none of it is working for you. So either leave it alone or do something about it.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
People have given you a ton of advice and none of it is working for you. So either leave it alone or do something about it.

I haven't had my DN in my care since I posted this. I intend to do more about it when that time comes.


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

Throw them away. Period.

If they ask say, "I threw them away. They were falling apart and couldn't fit on his feet anymore. Now he can wear his Air Jordans."

Then change the subject, "we had so much fun at gym class; he and dd were so cute; yada yada".


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I am really surprised at how many people are saying to throw them out & buy him a new pair.

He HAS a new pair, a 2nd new pair doesn't need to be purchased. For whatever reason he isn't being put into these new shoes.

anyone who is saying to just throw them away or "accidentally" lose them should really flip the situation & think about how they'd feel if someone did something like that to their child, even if the person doing it feels justified in doing it. How would people feel if another adult felt their child's hair should be cut & got it cut, or got rid of clothes that you purchased for them becuase they felt they could get better clothes. Then think about how you'd feel if that person had never brought the topic up to you first.

If the OP thinks the shoes are too small then she should talk to the parents about it.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Wait, are these his first shoes? His first real shoes anyway? the ones he took his first steps in? If so you absolutely cannot throw them away. You just can't.

Someone else had an idea that struck me as really good. you know he has cute shoes. Mention how you can't wait to see him in them. That it would be soooo sad if he outgrew them before he ever got to wear them. Maybe find a cheap picture place and get "cousin pictures" done. (you can usually find a cheap place around here that will do them for about $10, walk in even) Tell her you want the kids to coordinate and mention what you would like him to wear right down to the shoes. gush over how cute he looks and how sweet the pictures are etc. As well as how much more comfortable he seems...Although you mention DN is obsessed with air jordans...maybe they think they are too cute to wear, or more about the having of them than the wearing of them. People can be weird that way.

Or you could take a more direct approach...."I noticed you have been cramming dn feet in those tiny little shoes way longer than is reasonable. They are way too small. I cannot even cram his foot in them. They are hurting his feet even if he does not complain. Is it a money problem? I can buy him some new shoes or give you money for shoes. Would you and DN like to go shopping with dd and I? We could make a day of it. It will be fun They are sweet shoes, he took his first steps in them, you must be so attached to them....can I take them and to make a little keepsake for you? Do you have a picture of him taking his first steps in them? any pictures of when you first got them? I would love to do that for you it would make me so happy to do that! I love doing stuff like that. I know how attached I am to the shoes dd took her first steps in." (keep suggesting things to get those shoes off his feet and then do what you have to do. have them bronzed or get a little shadow box to make a keep sake, buy him some new ones, or just shame her into putting different ones on him....keep making suggestions until she gets it.)


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
anyone who is saying to just throw them away or "accidentally" lose them should really flip the situation & think about how they'd feel if someone did something like that to their child, even if the person doing it feels justified in doing it. How would people feel if another adult felt their child's hair should be cut & got it cut, or got rid of clothes that you purchased for them becuase they felt they could get better clothes. Then think about how you'd feel if that person had never brought the topic up to you first.

If the OP thinks the shoes are too small then she should talk to the parents about it.

I get what you are saying, but I don't think that the situations you are describing (cutting hair, getting new clothes) are comparable to this too-small shoe situation. For me this borders on a health and safety situation. Shoes that are too small are too small. Period. Black and white. This is not a case of "I don't think her _boy_ should wear pink shoes" or something like that. Cramming feet into shoes that are truly way too small is harmful, imo. It can affect foot development, walking/gait, and eventually (if the gait is off) knees, hips, etc. And it is so so very painful. Poor little boy.









THAT SAID... I do believe that the first course of action should, of course, be talking to the parents. But, it was my understanding that the OP had done that? (maybe I'm misremembering what I read a day or two ago). If I were in the OP's situation I would yes, talk to the parents, trying some of the great ideas upthread to get through to them. But if that failed I would absolutely "lose" (keep but return later) the shoes. This little boy should not have his feet crammed in these shoes any longer. I would do what it took to ensure that they stayed off his feet.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

This is not her call to make though. It is overstepping boundries.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

I was a little kid who needed new glasses. My parents couldn't afford them and would have preferred gouge their own eyes out than ask relatives for money. Once when I was visiting my aunt and grandmother I mistook a field of cows for a field of horses. Our next stop was one of the one-hour eyeglass places where you can get an exam.

It wasn't, strictly speaking, my aunt's and grandmother's call to make. And I'm betting my parents were not thrilled. But frankly in that instance my parents weren't doing their job, and as the child in the situation I can't say I'm anything but glad for their butting in.

I realize "caregivers not doing their job" opens up the potential for all sorts of slippery slope arguments (just to preempt anyone who wants to go there: "but what about vaccines???"), but I think (or I hope) "demanding a child wear too-small shoes" falls under the category of "thoroughly uncontroversially and unanimously perceived to be caregivers just not doing it right."

As far as the idea that "you absolutely can not throw away his first shoes" brought up a couple of posts up-thread ... well, yeah, you can. If it's a clear problem and talking to them just as clearly about it hasn't worked, you can. When the subject is something being used to undeniably and with no arguable cause inflict pain upon a child, you absolutely can. If I'm beating you over the head with my wedding album, I hereby give you full permission to thoroughly disregard what may be my sentimental attachment to it in your response.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I would be tempted to "loosen" the toes of the shoes so his toes could stick out, if they were truly too small. That way they could see he has outgrown them and put him in larger ones.

But, more than likely, I would just simply buy a nice looking pair and replace them (sending the old ones home with him). Maybe if he comes home wearing a pair he really likes they will let him continue to wear them.

I agree that it would be overstepping to "lose" them. I hate it when other people think that they can do that to me, no matter the issue, in regards to my children. I would not want to do that to anyone else. But, buying a new pair that was easy to put on and cute might be all the encouragement they need to put the old pair up.


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

She's already brought it up to them, and he already has new shoes.

The only reason I could see for not tossing them is what someone brought up, maybe they're his first shoes he ever walked in---sentimental reasons for keeping them?

But seriously. Bronze them? and give them back to the parents? Come on.

It's ridiculous. I would just put new shoes on his feet and tell the parents the old ones don't fit.

eta and I don't think it's overstepping. The kid needs bigger shoes. If a kid needed food, and you fed him, would it be overstepping? No. It's not a preference issue, it's a need. His feet are getting all scrunched up and he has communicated that the shoes hurt. If a kid got a scratch and communicated that they needed a bandaid, would it be overstepping to give him one? No. He's in pain here. Not overstepping.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

This is not overstepping at all this poor lo could end up with serious problems having his feet crammed into such small shoes.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
This is not her call to make though. It is overstepping boundries.

I disagree.

She's spending time caring for this child.

The child is in pain and also, poorly fitted shoes can cause lifelong foot problems, and those lead to back problems. I should know. I have a fallen arch and it may have led to my scoliosis.

I do think it's serious. "Losing" something need not be permanent. You could tell them you're going to clean out your car... next week... no really... oh gosh could they be in the lost and found?... next week... and three months later, "Can you believe it they slipped under the board in the trunk! OMG! Thank heavens we found them."


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I do think it's serious. "Losing" something need not be permanent. You could tell them you're going to clean out your car... next week... no really... oh gosh could they be in the lost and found?... next week... and three months later, "Can you believe it they slipped under the board in the trunk! OMG! Thank heavens we found them."

that's a great idea


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## Earthy Mama (Jun 4, 2004)

I have a friend who spends a great deal of time with my kids. She, in the past, has taken it upon herself to throw away clothes that are stained or have a small hole in them (both of which I could care less about since they are play clothes). I was furious when I found out what she did. It is totally not anyone else's place to throw away something that you've paid for-regardless of if it fits.

I do agree the boy shouldn't be wearing shoes that are too tight and it confuses me that even though he has other shoes, he isn't wearing them, but do NOT throw them away.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 
that's a great idea

THAT is called "lying" and I velieve if the shoe were on the other foot (pardon the pun) it would not be taken so lightly.

My mom has done it to me before....brought ds home in brand new briefs underwear because she didn't think he should be wearing boxers. mysteriously, she managed to "lose" all his boxers that I sent him over to her to visit in. Maybe it's *not* good for his balls, maybe she's right. But it's still not her call.

Just either say something to the parents, or stop taking the kid out.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Yeah, I have a really hard time with anyone that forces their will upon me or my children, even if they think it is the "right" thing to do, or in the "best interest of the child".

I absolutely HATE it. I have had that done more times than I can stand by "well meaning" people that could not keep their nose out of my business.

And while I sympathis with this little boy, after thinking about it, I have changed my thoughts a bit. I am not certain that the shoes are so, so small after all.

I have a son with large feet. And honestly, there is no way I could get his feet into a shoe was just so small that you had to scrunch them to get them in. I have found that I could put on shoes that were tight, if I got him to relax his toes, but then if he fought in any I could not get them on.

And I have to agree, if the shoes were as bad as the OP thinks, the child would not be able to walk at all without constant pain. Thus, he would take them off or not walk.

Granted, I have not seen the shoes or the feet, so it is all conjecture, but based on my years of experience with children's feet, this is my opinion.

But, beyond that. I don't believe it is ANYONE else's right to dispose of something that does not belong to them. And to lie about it is even worse. If soemone did that to me, I would cut them out of my life, totally. Because, it is for me to choose for my children what I think is best, not for someone else. And I will not be second guessed by someone other than my husband. I don't care the reasoning. Even if it is "for the good of the child". It my child to make those decisions for, no one else.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

I witnessed the (successful) attempt to put DNs shoes on today... it was an ordeal. I was upstairs with FIL, GMIL, & GFIL, DN & my children. GFIL was trying to put the shoes on, DN was screaming and crying. I told them that the shoes were too small, that he was obviously in pain, but they continued to insist that "he just does not like getting dressed". I asked if a different pair of shoes could be put on. I asked if they'd like me to bring a pair of DDs (gender neutral, and a size 7) shoes upstairs for DN to wear. No. They were going to put these shoes on come h-ll or high water (they didn't say that, but that's how it seemed). After much trying, neither GFIL or GMIL were able to put the shoes on. FIL (strong construction worker!) then stepped up to put them on, and he was able to put them on. I just can NOT understand how someone could do that to anyone, let alone a child! We were in the house, and he did not need shoes on! DHs family has a weird quirk that everyone wears shoes all the time inside. Anyways, FIL then said that the shoes were too small. GMIL insisted that he wear the shoes. I then again suggested another pair of shoes, and GMIL then angrily stated that the shoes fit him and that they were fine. I was just baffled and done talking, we left and went back downstairs (we live downstairs).

This is ridiculous! I just do NOT understand why they won't listen to me, or my DH! Tomorrow I need to meet my DNs mother outside when she drops him off because we need his car seat for tomorrow. I'm going to talk to her about it again then. I tried calling her a little while ago, no answer. I left a message for her to call me back.

If DN comes in the same shoes (which I fully expect he will), DH and I are going to Sears to pick him up a pair of shoes after gymnastics. We have plans to go to the aquarium (apple picking season is almost over and too long of a drive, plus the aquarium is free tomorrow), and I'm just going to let them know (when I return him to them with the new shoes on) that I couldn't get the old ones on because they are TOO SMALL.

This is incredibly ridiculous. One shouldn't even have to think about something like this! To me, it is simple- if my child's feet grow, and her shoes don't fit, I DON'T PUT THEM BACK ON HER!

And now that a PP mentioned gait- DN has a strange walk. He doesn't walk like most toddlers do, and I know that it varies widely child-to-child, but this particular variance *could* be caused by the too-small shoes. He doesn't take steps with a heel to toe walk, he sort of takes quick steps on each foot- when he walks he looks like he's running in place, almost. I really can't explain it. It could very well be a normal variance of "toddler walk", but he has been walking for a year. He also trips a LOT, but I'm not sure if that's just age related clumsiness or not.

Anyways, I'll update after I talk with his parents again. What do I do if no one ends up listening? Really. What do I do? I really don't want to just sit by and watch my DN in his too-small shoes. I will feel TERRIBLE if I just leave it be.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
If DN comes in the same shoes (which I fully expect he will), DH and I are going to Sears to pick him up a pair of shoes after gymnastics. We have plans to go to the aquarium (apple picking season is almost over and too long of a drive, plus the aquarium is free tomorrow), and I'm just going to let them know (when I return him to them with the new shoes on) that I couldn't get the old ones on because they are TOO SMALL.

Good for you!









Based on your description of everyone trying to force his feet into his shoes today, it's a perfectly accurate and truthful statement to simply say that you were unable to get his shoes on his feet, so you bought some that fit.

Your GMIL has a really odd attitude about it -- I'd have to push her on the issue, saying something like, "Why are you so insistent that he wear these shoes when they're obviously too small?" If she says that they're not too small, say, "Give me a break -- I just watched you try to put them on him and you couldn't. It's a matter of fact that they're too small, not my opinion. Now again, why is it so important to you that he wear shoes that don't fit when he has access to ones that do??" I just wouldn't be able to let up -- it would make me crazy to watch that whole scene!


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

It's really hard to get into full fledged conversations with GMIL and GFIL, as there is a language barrier- I can communicate but I think it would be hard- I'm going to enlist the help of my DH with that one.

Others in the family do similar things, but NOT to this extent.

DHs cousin's daughter, my 2yo DDs age, used to frequently wear shoes that didn't fit because they matched her outfit. A few months ago she was in a pair of shorts (sized 3-6 months! I know because I gave them to her when my DD outgrew them!) and her mother commented on how cute they are and how lucky she was to be able to cram her DD into her "booty shorts" because they looked oh so cute with xyz shirt/hat/shoes. Give me a break, indeed! Though I do think it's a bit strange to do that, those occasions weren't as severe as my nephew's situation. I cannot understand WHY on earth they are doing this. Unlike my DHs cousin's daughter- it doesn't appear to be for fashion.. so I don't know







But like I said, hopefully tomorrow works out and we're able to get some shoes that fit on him


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

That is a very sad scene, indeed.









The good thing is that now you have at least one person that admits they are too small. Perhaps you could push in that area. Like maybe the others would listen to him more than you? Maybe you could get HIM to buy some new shoes for the boy, and they would accept them.

I don't know your family dinamics, but maybe they are just not listenting because it is _you_ that is saying it? I mean, I have a brother that is so "off", in a sense, that if he says something, I immediately question it, no matter what it is.

I hope I did not come across as offensive before, because that was not my intentions. I was just hoping that the situation was not as bad as you feared (for the child's sake).

My children all go without shoes as much as possible. My two year old is into only his third pair of shoes, and the two previous ones he only wore two or three times each. But, I understand those that "require" shoes be worn, my MIL is like that. And she does not understand our shoe-free life.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

You said language barrier. Could this be culturial? That could explain a lot.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Would it help at all if you phrased it as "I bought these shoes because they are _easier to put on_" and stopped mentioning the size issue? Arguing about whether the shoes fit has led nowhere, but maybe pointing out the time savings, and ease of use would lead to a better reception?


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

How old is he? Seems he's about the age to want to put his OWN shoes on and take them off, so maybe make the case that he can do it himself with _____ (pair of shoes that fit, either ones he has or ones you buy) and then it's a lot easier on everyone.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2010)

To OP, your Sears plan sounds great.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Some older people do believe that shoes on young children _need_ to be somewhat close fitting "_to give the feet support_." When DS first started wearing shoes, my mom would come shoe shopping with us, and always fuss that I was being cheap by buying shoes with "_too much grow room_" in them when they just struck me as properly fitting. Your GMIL and GFIL may really think the tight shoes are the right size.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Some older people do believe that shoes on young children _need_ to be somewhat close fitting "_to give the feet support_." When DS first started wearing shoes, my mom would come shoe shopping with us, and always fuss that I was being cheap by buying shoes with "_too much grow room_" in them when they just struck me as properly fitting. Your GMIL and GFIL may really think the tight shoes are the right size.

"snug" would be nice in this situation, unfortunately









He's almost 2 years and 2 months old. He's extremely dependent, and is "babied" at home (was told by pedi that he has speech delays [hes also very nonverbal, though his vocab is finally expanding







] because he is being talked to in baby-talk). I honestly don't think that he's angry and wants to do it himself...







I truely wish it were that easy and that were the case.

Kidzaplenty- Oh no, no offense taken! I think it may be cultural but I asked my DH and he replied "They just don't care" and reminded me of when the boy was about 15 months old and we had to buy him new clothes because he was wearing the same ones for days straight. And of a few other occasions







I totally get the no-shoes thing, we wear shoes only when needed (but man does DD wear them out!). I'm frequently barefoot and get alot of flack from DHs family. You're right though, maybe it is me. Maybe I should get DH more involved- it is his family, after all... though he might not want to as he's under the impression that they "just don't care". So we'll see.

I searched sears.com and found a pair of shoes pretty inexpensive and pretty close to the ones he has now- checked online if they had them in our local store and they do







We're very broke right now and my kids need winter stuff too... (I underestimated what we'd need!







) but I figure we can put one pair of shoes on a credit card for a child deeply in need.


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

nak

Well, it takes a village to raise a child . . .

I dont see any kind of intervention in this situation as meddlesome, you love the boy and he needs someone to advocate for him *shrug* In a way, he is yours to care for,too even though hes not your dc. Other adults besides parents may also have a responsibility to a child that they love.

I think you have a good plan.

For myself, I would be very direct as pps have said. In the scene you described earlier, I probably would've got fed up and just intervened and said, cmon DN and picked him up and out of that bizarro shoe struggle







Totally weird.








I can't wait to hear about your escape from the WC!


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 

He's almost 2 years and 2 months old. He's extremely dependent, and is "babied" at home (*was told by pedi that he has speech delays* [hes also very nonverbal, though his vocab is finally expanding







] because he is being talked to in baby-talk).

You know his pedi? If nothing you say to the family works give the pedi a call. This is a medical/developmental issue and the pedi can address it, without telling the family that it was you that called.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

I know who his pedi _is_ but I know such information because everything is announced like a press release every time they come back from an appointment. I have gone along with my MIL on appointments when DNs mom was at work, so I know where/who the pedi is.

Aren't doctors mandated reporters, though? I'm worried they'd get a CPS call.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
And now that a PP mentioned gait- DN has a strange walk. He doesn't walk like most toddlers do, and I know that it varies widely child-to-child, but this particular variance *could* be caused by the too-small shoes. He doesn't take steps with a heel to toe walk, he sort of takes quick steps on each foot- when he walks he looks like he's running in place, almost. I really can't explain it. It could very well be a normal variance of "toddler walk", but he has been walking for a year. He also trips a LOT, but I'm not sure if that's just age related clumsiness or not.

from too small shoes. it is his damamging him. it probably hurts to walk.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
I know who his pedi _is_ but I know such information because everything is announced like a press release every time they come back from an appointment. I have gone along with my MIL on appointments when DNs mom was at work, so I know where/who the pedi is.

Aren't doctors mandated reporters, though? I'm worried they'd get a CPS call.


at this point maybe they should. they are neglecting him. just from what i have read, i would be too pissed to leave it. i would have to do something to make sure that kid was ok. they are obliviously willfully making him wear shoes that hurt him and are causing him life long developmental issues. you know, like when they used to do foot-binding. you have talked till your blue in the face and no one is doing anything. they dont change his clothes? i would have offered to watch the child already and maybe cut the old people- grandparents or whatever- out of it. you said that you and your DH both think that *they dont care*. that is awful to grow up being taken care of people who dont care. you talk like you got the time and have him a lot anyway. offer to be the day care, say it is bc your kids like playing with him. anything you do, get that kid away from having those people be his primary care. that poor kid. makes me wanna cry


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

THAT is called "lying" and I velieve if the shoe were on the other foot (pardon the pun) it would not be taken so lightly.
Yeah, I'd lie to someone who was hurting her child, in order to help the child. Sue me. I'll take the blame for that. Better to go to hell for lying and easing a child's pain, than go to heaven letting a child suffer like that.

Too-small shoes hurt a lot. It's just not right.

Quote:

I find you need to wrestle with shoes in general until you get to size 6 or 7.
It depends on the child. Some children have really smushy feet until that size or so, and some kids have round feet until then. So this is true but it is possible to find shoes that go on easier. I found Keens totally worth it at that age.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I cannot tell you how much I have cringed reading this post. I worked ladies shoes for 5 years, and the potential damage in what they are doing to this child is unbelievable and *may* result in deformation and a need for corrective surgery down the road (not to mention a lifetime of foot issues). This is serious and not a case to mind your own business. If I recall correctly, you stated it was the GFIL that agreed the shoes were too small? Take him aside and tell him the damages that can come from this and ask him if he'd be willing to do something about it like "misplacing" one of the shoes for a while. It really sounds like the issue is the GMIL and the FIL goes with what his mom says. What a terrible situation!


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

He's 2 years old, right? That's the age that kids love rubber boots... he could even put them on himself, and they're pretty cheap. You could get some colourful ones that would appeal to him. If he has footwear he'll willingly get into, the adults might figure out that it's a lot more convenient for them, too! I don't know that lying about losing the ill-fitting shoes is a good idea, though.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

nak- sorry for weird grammar and spelling errors!

So today came. I had fully expected to see my DN in the same shoes. He wasn't!!







He was in one of the pairs of Air Jordans







They were still too small, but not anywhere near as small as the other shoes.

They might now be "getting" the fact that his shoes were too small... but they did send him in shoes that were still not the right size. I think this might have been an honest mistake though- they were bigger than the original shoes!

I do have one complaint about these shoes though- the soles are like an inch thick and don't flex a bit- he was tripping over himself all day! I might get a pair of shoes that flexes a bit more and are easier to walk in for him, if I am able... it's really hard to deal with him tripping and falling every 5 minutes (even if he's not getting really hurt) and have two other children at the same time.

But yay







they put him in different shoes! I don't know if it was all of the times I brought it up, or if it's because they matched his outfit (red and black shoes and red and black track suit) but they were bigger and a step in the right direction (I hope).

Should I mind my own business or should I mention to the parents the fact that these shoes were too small too? My MIL put DN in the car and I felt his toes and his toes were right up agains the end of the shoe (without him bearing weight on them). Not a smidge of wiggle room- she insisted he had room to grow, my DH felt the shoes and agreed with me that they were too small.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
They might now be "getting" the fact that his shoes were too small... but they did send him in shoes that were still not the right size. I think this might have been an honest mistake though- they were bigger than the original shoes!

I do have one complaint about these shoes though- the soles are like an inch thick and don't flex a bit- he was tripping over himself all day! I might get a pair of shoes that flexes a bit more and are easier to walk in for him, if I am able... it's really hard to deal with him tripping and falling every 5 minutes (even if he's not getting really hurt) and have two other children at the same time.

This really sounds like they are following the old "snug shoes that provide support" philosophy. I'm not saying it's a good philosophy, but it was the prevailing way of thinking 40 years ago. When DS first started walking, many older shoe store people tried to convince me to buy DS very stiff hard soled boots that laced up tightly. My mom, who came along on many of those trips commented that those were the types of shoes she was told to use for us (I have bunions and curled up toes in case you're wondering, and I've never really been a high heel wearer.)


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

His mom just turned 30, so I don't think it's the "old school" way of doing things. She was born and raised here.

The Jordans are really a fashion trend, extremely popular amongst highschoolers and those in their early 20s. My husband has two pairs *insert eyeroll here*. I find that the childrens shoes have almost the same thickness of soles that the adult sized shoes have- it's weird! I know because DH had tried to convince me to buy a pair for DD. No thanks!









These are what DN had on, and you can see how thick the sole is. I don't know how adults even walk in those!


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I find that most baby shoes have the huge soles. I can't stand them. I don't know how the makers can think a baby could even walk with those things that must feel like 10lb weights on their feet.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WindyCityMom* 
His mom just turned 30, so I don't think it's the "old school" way of doing things. She was born and raised here.

If she never researched this herself, and is just listening to older shoe sales people or parents'/grandparents' opinions, then she would be following the old way of thinking even though she isn't old. Considering that GMIL took him to the pediatrician with you instead of mom going, I could see her just trusting the GPIL about how shoe are supposed to fit.

I really think this needs to be addressed at a philosophical level, as opposed to a they just need to be made aware of the problem level. You have pointed the problem out, they have seen it, and disagree that it is a problem.

If you could talk to the mother about the GPIL having outdated information on foot development, I think you'll get much further than if you treat it as something they just need to be made aware of.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Or approach it as you want to help the parents give the GPILs a clue. "I know it's a nuisance to argue with your parents about anything, but have you seen how messed up feet turn out in tight shoes?"

Oh, and since it's fall go get him a pair of boots that fit. For all those puddles at the zoo, y'know? "Oh, we'd better take along his boots too!" if he isn't wearing them when you go to take him to gym/zoo.

And then winter boots when it's a bit closer and you have an idea of his foot size.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

You could say something to the effect (to his mom) of "Wow good thing you moved up when you did. Those shoes are so cute and they just barely fit. it would have been a shame if you missed the window all together on those. Their feet grow so fast at this age. dd zipped through 4 sizes in about a year. I was beginning to worry she would never slow down! " you aren't telling her they are too small but you are giving her a heads up that his feet grow fast and these are not going to last long.

another option...buy an identical pair a size up.....

I am feel old knowing that air jordans are making a comeback.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I am feel old knowing that air jordans are making a comeback.

Same here! I'm like, "Really, they're all the rage? Is it 1985?" Everything old is new again.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

I have bunions
I have a bunion and I was amazed to learn that they have actually not been scientifically proven to be correlated with any particular shoe type, as they occur among people that don't even wear shoes.

OP, I dunno. I think at this point I'd be so thrilled they did something about it I wouldn't want to push it. I would just be like, "He seems to LOVE his new shoes!"

Re: Tripping: he's probably re-learning how to walk, poor little guy.

Quote:

Oh, and since it's fall go get him a pair of boots that fit. For all those puddles at the zoo, y'know? "Oh, we'd better take along his boots too!" if he isn't wearing them when you go to take him to gym/zoo.
I agree with this. Just buy him the next size up boots and say, "Well, we were there and the shoe store guy agreed to size all the kids, so I thought, what the hey. I thought they were bigger than the shoes he has, but sure enough, he showed me the numbers. My how their feet grow! What are you feeding this boy? LOL!"


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
another option...buy an identical pair a size up.....

This is exactly what I would do! Buy the exact same thing, a size up, and never say a word. If he's just been wearing them for a day or two they won't likely notice they are a touch bigger.


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

oh my those shoes are hideous, lol. Weren't Jordans popular about 15 years ago or so...when my big brother was in high school? lol. The teens (and kids...and me) around here are into the converse all stars. much cuter (and an older flashback, lol). Sorry, that was all totally OT.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabohl* 
oh my those shoes are hideous, lol. Weren't Jordans popular about 15 years ago or so...when my big brother was in high school? lol. The teens (and kids...and me) around here are into the converse all stars. much cuter (and an older flashback, lol). Sorry, that was all totally OT.

DH & I LOVE our converse! We were of the "punk/grunge/skater-ish" group in high school, and those went along with it. Unfortunately, I have really wide feet so they don't work for me







DH is overweight and says his feet look too fat and frumpy in them.







So I guess Jordans are better for him.

I think they're ugly too


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Oh, and back to the topic







...

I was able to tell DNs father how adorable his shoes were and yadda yadda and that "hopefully he doesn't outgrow them too soon, but if he does there are plenty of other cute Jordans in xyz store etc etc".

I'm happy winter is coming up, because I don't see them getting him boots. I know that will be on me, likely. He was walking last winter but he was wearing the same shoes that were extremely small- they just didn't let him walk in the snow.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Just a little off topic note....the converse one stars at target are just as cute as the all star chucks but cheaper and WIDER!! And they are just as high quality as well. Neither my dd or I can wear the all stars but the ones at Target fit us fine (as a matter of fact I am on my way to get her pair for her birthday...shhhhh! Don't tell her. and I will make sure they are the right size







)


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
and I will make sure they are the right size







)

























thanks for the heads up about the one stars though!


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## craft_media_hero (May 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
You could say something to the effect (to his mom) of "Wow good thing you moved up when you did. Those shoes are so cute and they just barely fit. it would have been a shame if you missed the window all together on those. Their feet grow so fast at this age. dd zipped through 4 sizes in about a year. I was beginning to worry she would never slow down! " you aren't telling her they are too small but you are giving her a heads up that his feet grow fast and these are not going to last long.

another option...buy an identical pair a size up.....

I am feel old knowing that air jordans are making a comeback.

ITA w/ lilyka and EdnaMarie!

I'm glad this seems to be working out.


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I haven't read all the replies but....

I would trace his foot on a piece of paper and then trace the shoe next to that to compare. You can show this to the grandmother because it will be VERY obvious the difference between the two.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I am very happy to hear that they put some bigger shoes on him. However I don't know anyone who buys their kids Jordans that are snug at the tiem of purchase. Jordans are expensive. when I buy them, I get them as big as I can get away so they will last a long time.

That being said, my ds has three pairs of jordans and a pair of timberlands (three out of the four were hand me downs, but still--they are nice shoes). If I dress him to go out and he is wearing his jordans THAT FIT or are close to fitting, and someone thinks the sole is too thick for him and changes him into some kmart sneakers, we are going to have big, big problems. the kmart sneakers are for backyard romping. when he goes out, the nice clothes/shoes come out --- for a reason. I would find it incredibly rude if someone were to take his nice clothes or sheos off and dress him in cheap crap just because they thought it was more comfortable.







ooooh, I would be mad.


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I am very happy to hear that they put some bigger shoes on him. However I don't know anyone who buys their kids Jordans that are snug at the tiem of purchase. Jordans are expensive. when I buy them, I get them as big as I can get away so they will last a long time.

That being said, my ds has three pairs of jordans and a pair of timberlands (three out of the four were hand me downs, but still--they are nice shoes). If I dress him to go out and he is wearing his jordans THAT FIT or are close to fitting, and someone thinks the sole is too thick for him and changes him into some kmart sneakers, we are going to have big, big problems. the kmart sneakers are for backyard romping. when he goes out, the nice clothes/shoes come out --- for a reason. I would find it incredibly rude if someone were to take his nice clothes or sheos off and dress him in cheap crap just because they thought it was more comfortable.







ooooh, I would be mad.

I actually did have to change DN out of his clothes yesterday. He was in a velour air jordans sweatsuit two sizes too big- we were going to gymnastics and he was tripping on himself before we got there- no one had extra clothes for him at the house so I HAD to buy something that fit him. The poor thing couldn't walk, let alone climb the stuff at gymnastics.

I am happy to report that I have not again seen the old way too small shoes









Oh and I don't think they try the shoes on him when they buy them- his older 13yo sister goes to the mall (practically lives there







) and buys him matching pairs- I think she just estimates the size.. but the most recent ones she bought him (which he has been wearing daily) are still too small for him.. but not as small as the old ones.

I don't know if I should say something about these shoes or just leave it alone. His toes are right up against the front of the shoe (touching it).


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Ok this is a long shot but...perhaps you could mention his proper size to his sister. Maybe for Christmas give her a gift certificate with enough to buy her and her little brother a matching pair (thats actually pretty sweet that she buys her little brother matching shoes...but holy crap. where is a 13 year old getting this kind of money?)

And I am right there with you at being annoyed about fashion over function. People used to bring their infants and toddlers to my day care dressed to the nines. Baby would get stripped down to sleepers or onsies and toddlers would get leggings and a t shirt. I had better things to do than mind their designer clothes and the hazards they presented (more often than not either way over sized or undersized). and i didn't have AC. Why on earth would you put your child in head to toe denim in that environment? I would change them back when their parents got there. If I didn't make it I would say a diaper leaked (and the worst offender also kept her dd in diapers that were too small by 2 sizes so not an unlikely story. )


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 

And I am right there with you at being annoyed about fashion over function. People used to bring their infants and toddlers to my day care dressed to the nines. Baby would get stripped down to sleepers or onsies and toddlers would get leggings and a t shirt. I had better things to do than mind their designer clothes and the hazards they presented (more often than not either way over sized or undersized). and i didn't have AC. Why on earth would you put your child in head to toe denim in that environment? I would change them back when their parents got there. If I didn't make it I would say a diaper leaked (and the worst offender also kept her dd in diapers that were too small by 2 sizes so not an unlikely story. )

So you lied to the parents? Why didn't you just tell them, "it gets so hot in here, would you mind bringing a change of playclothes for the kids, and I'll make sure they are looking cute again when you pick them up later?"

I'm one of those parents who dresses my kids cute. I think it may be a cultural thing, but where I grew up people kind of judged you based on your kids. So if you took your kid out in a sleeper or onesie (which, incidentally, why keep a baby in a SLEEPER all day when it is for SLEEPING?) it was like, oh she can't or won't even take decent care of her kid. So even if the kid only has one nice outift, you put that outfit on her and do her hair nice. Like a good mom. Might be silly to you but that is how lots of folks roll.


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## HeatherAtHome (Apr 4, 2009)

Tell your niece to trace his foot on a piece of cardboard or sturdy paper then cut it out and take it shopping with her.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I'm one of those parents who dresses my kids cute. I think it may be a cultural thing, but where I grew up people kind of judged you based on your kids. So if you took your kid out in a sleeper or onesie (which, incidentally, why keep a baby in a SLEEPER all day when it is for SLEEPING?) it was like, oh she can't or won't even take decent care of her kid. So even if the kid only has one nice outift, you put that outfit on her and do her hair nice. Like a good mom. Might be silly to you but that is how lots of folks roll.









You sound like my Grandma! LOL I think there are socioeconomic issues at play (for my family anyway). My family growing up was on the really low end of middle class, and I think a lot of the dressing the kids up was about demonstrating social status. When my mom found out I didn't take my son to the pediatrician in his best little suit (that she bought), she was horrified because she thought it would mean we'd get worse treatment.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
You sound like my Grandma! LOL I think there are socioeconomic issues at play (for my family anyway). My family growing up was on the really low end of middle class, and I think a lot of the dressing the kids up was about demonstrating social status. When my mom found out I didn't take my son to the pediatrician in his best little suit (that she bought), she was horrified because she thought it would mean we'd get worse treatment.

lol...reminds me of my ds' first well baby check. He was like three days old and it was his first outing. I had him dressed in jeans, a long sleeved tee with matching orange and white nike sneakers and a matching hat (not a baby hat, but a fitted--like a baseball cap). I jsut wanted to show him off in all his cuteness....of course first thing they told me when we got there was to strip him naked and keep him that way, wrapped in a blanket so he could be weighed/examined. I was so disappointed, I wanted to show off his outift! It had never dawned on my that the doc only sees the baby while he's naked....


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
lol...reminds me of my ds' first well baby check. He was like three days old and it was his first outing. I had him dressed in jeans, a long sleeved tee with matching orange and white nike sneakers and a matching hat (not a baby hat, but a fitted--like a baseball cap). I jsut wanted to show him off in all his cuteness....of course first thing they told me when we got there was to strip him naked and keep him that way, wrapped in a blanket so he could be weighed/examined. I was so disappointed, I wanted to show off his outift! It had never dawned on my that the doc only sees the baby while he's naked....









Seriously? You put jeans and sneakers on a three day old baby? That doesn't sound very comfortable for the baby.


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## Jaxinator (Dec 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
(which, incidentally, why keep a baby in a SLEEPER all day when it is for SLEEPING?)

I did because it was cozy and comfortable for my baby, and easy for me. I didn't like him in uncomfortable clothes, makes for uncomfortable cuddling.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
(which, incidentally, why keep a baby in a SLEEPER all day when it is for SLEEPING?)









babies spend most of their time sleeping anyways (except the ones who simply won't sleep of course). And if they're not sleeping they usually need their diaper changed, so I always found "cute" outfits more trouble than they were worth. Besides, babies don't really need accessories to be cute, they've got that covered.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I had a couple of babies in my house. I had better things to do than mess with their clothes. Think of it as a uniform. The offending mom was ridiculous about lots of things and knew how hot it was in my house. She complained and asked why I didn't turn the air on. Um maybe it was that the $75 a week she was paying me just didn't really cover the cost of running it. My response was you get used to if you dress appropriately.... The clothes were a status thing for her. not for me. My kids lived in sleepers and onsies their first year. Warm, cute, easy. Her kids diaper usually leaked anyway (because she kept her in ones too small) so if it had stayed on it probably would have had poop on it eventually. Like I said, her kid wasn't the only one and I had better things to do than fuss over keeping her outfit perfect. Easier just to take it off and put it on right before her mom got there.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Seriously? You put jeans and sneakers on a three day old baby? That doesn't sound very comfortable for the baby.

I always roll my eyes when I see a tiny newborn baby in anything but a onsie/sleeper. I know that jeans and sneakers cannot be comfortable for a little tiny one. Its about the parents showing off not the comfort of the babies.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
So you lied to the parents? Why didn't you just tell them, "it gets so hot in here, would you mind bringing a change of playclothes for the kids, and I'll make sure they are looking cute again when you pick them up later?"

I'm one of those parents who dresses my kids cute. I think it may be a cultural thing, but where I grew up people kind of judged you based on your kids. So if you took your kid out in a sleeper or onesie (which, incidentally, why keep a baby in a SLEEPER all day when it is for SLEEPING?) it was like, oh she can't or won't even take decent care of her kid. So even if the kid only has one nice outift, you put that outfit on her and do her hair nice. Like a good mom. Might be silly to you but that is how lots of folks roll.









If there's a cutely-dressed-kid contest, I'd probably win it. But I can't imagine putting other people's opinions about my children's clothing over my own child's comfort. I can't even fathom putting a 3 day old in jeans! I don't even think they're comfortable for my 3 year old. She wears leggings or lightweight corduroys or flannel or fleece pants, mostly.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
I always roll my eyes when I see a tiny newborn baby in anything but a onsie/sleeper. I know that jeans and sneakers cannot be comfortable for a little tiny one. Its about the parents showing off not the comfort of the babies.









My four year old had fits every time I ever tried to put jeans on him as an infant (received some as gifts) and still tells me that they are uncomfortable. I have to say that I agree with him.

His preschool actually sent out a dress code this year which stated that they believed the ideal clothing for preschoolers was sweatsuits (for colder weather) or t-shirts and "soft" shorts (for warmer weather), and asked that parents please stop sending kids in uncomfortable/unplayable clothing.


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## dogretro (Jun 17, 2008)

My kid and baby wear jeans & sneakers almost every day & I have not heard any complaints in 2+ years. I also agree that sleepers are pajamas, & I don't take my kids out of the house in pajamas. I don't "do" sweatclothes, either, for myself or the kids. Or velour tracksuits, swishy track pants, leggings, blech. It really is no trouble to dress the kids every day. All of dd1's clothes are quite nice & I am okay w/ her getting them dirty. We do dress our v young babies in onesies most of the time & that is b/c dh and I find it difficult to put pants on newborns. They still wear nice new onesies w/ long socks, nice dresses, etc.

OP, great to hear that they are finally putting him in shoes that fit. I wouldn't worry too much about the fit of the current shoes b/c they do still fit. Since his sister is buying so many of the shoes for him, I would def tell her his correct size. If his shoes get too small again, I agree w/ others who have said to take a hard line and refuse to take him out in the small shoes. If this means that you keep a pair of shoes for him at your house, so be it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

DD always gets a choice of clothes and picks jeans about half the time.

That said, she sweats like a faucet when she sleeps so I just assume that a baby in a sleeper was put in a fresh one in the morning/after their nap.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

There are one piece outfits for newborns and small babies that are not pajamas.


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