# What non-political things can we do to reduce abortions?



## whimsy (Aug 6, 2004)

It seems like almost everyone agrees that we'd like to see less abortions needed/wanted. What are some non political things we can do to help women who are in this situation?

I'm not talking about general (although valid) ideas like we need more available birth control. I'm talking specifics.

How can i/we get involved and offer help to someone in crisis?

As much as I believe abortion should remain legal, I hate the thought of someone regretting their choice to have one, because i/we weren't there to give them the help they needed.

Is anyone familiar with Birthright? I'm curious about them.


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## Annie (Feb 14, 2004)

The only thing I can think of is to donate to organizations that help women choose not to abort, and help them with services like filling basic physical needs, medical care, etc. The organization I know of in my area is The Pregnancy Help Center. Please dont flame me if someone doesnt like them. You asked, I Posted


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## splatgrl (Apr 11, 2002)

This seems fairly simple to me, give all teens better access to birth control.


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## iris0110 (Aug 26, 2003)

I have to agree with splatgrl if all teens had access to adequate sex education and birth control. If you are looking for something you can do personally well some things would be donate to planned parenthood or even see about teaching a class yourself. Because of the current climate in America many teens are not learning sex ed, even though alot of parents want them to. Now obviously the answer would be for the parents to teach them, but some just don't know how to do it properly. Plus teens often learn better when there are other teens around to learn with and from. You could teach a course to teen girls not just about sex ed, but also about why they are particullarly vunerable to unwanted pregnancies (inexperience, confusing sex and love, experimentation ect.) Just a thought. Though I don't think abortion is really the epidemic that so many anti-abortion activists would have you believe. Also pushing to get the day after pill available over the counter would really help.

dog-mommie annie,







I would never flame you, and I don't know about the pregnancy help centers in your area, but the ones here don't really help women. They shame girls into not getting abortions, but don't help them with the babies at all. I say this because as a young girl I went to one. All I needed was a medically verified positive pregnancy test, I couldn't afford to go to a dr, and I didn't have health insurance. I had to sit through a 1 hr lecture on the evils of sex and why I should accept jesus. And I wasn't even thinking about abortion, I just needed the test so I could file for medicaid. I hate to think of what they say to girls who are seriously considering abortions. But the ones in your area may genuinly be out to help these girls, and arrange adoptions or help them find jobs and whatever. But I would look long and hard at one of these programs before giving money to them to make sure that it is a good one and not just a front for an anti-abortion lobby.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

I volunteered at a non-abortion crisis pregnancy center...I was responsible for administering pregnancy tests, counseling the women and their families, providing information on adoption, childrearing, pregnancy, and if the person insisted on an abortion, I was to show them a video of the procedure (not a gruesome nasty video...it was tasteful and honest). In addition, we provided free maternity and baby clothes, breastfeeding information, diapers, swings, front carriers, etc. All of that stuff came by donation from families in the community.

So, I think more places like that....places that provide information and material assistance, as well as counseling to both the mother AND partner/parents/whoever. The place I volunteered at was very popular and well supported in the community.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

some good insites, i would love to see more support in this country for people who need it. and more activism to prevent unhappy things.
i was curious about how short this thread is so far, considering all the ones debating the rights or wrongs of it go on and on instantly.

i guess support and education are the main issues, plus media portraying positive responsible teens would be a nice change. perhaps we could find some advocates for this in hollywood, or even some producing company's to put a little limelight on being a self-advocator for your personal rights. if they could make it "cool" to stand up for oneself, maybe we would see a change.

anyone have a close personal relationship with a star?









i dont know if this is political or not,but how about finding a way to make nobody poor anymore? i find this to be a major issue with how many unwanted pregnancys there are, and how well new young mothers handle there situation.

you know what would be nice is to create an accual non-profit org. that deals with this very issue.
not a planned parenthood type place and not a conservative outreach program but a place for people to come together and acually talk about this huge issue here. it seems to me no kind of real change ever comes about until people organize.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Birthright is run by the Catholic Church I believe, I had a Catholic friend who volunteered there and whose father also worked with them. It is a pro-life group.

They do free pregnancy tests, counseling and give diapers and baby clothes. They may do more but that's all I really know about it from friend.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Help raise girls who have a healthy self-image, good boundaries, confident self-assertion skills, thorough knowledge of their bodies and a clear understanding of conception, contraception and birth.

And boys who respect women as equals, are free from the objectification of women, and whose worldview includes parenting as just as much of a man's job as a woman's.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

What if people signed up to 'adopt' a pregnant girl as a friend/mentor?
For instance, be someone who the girl you 'adopt' can call at 3am, vent, cry too etc. Just be there as her 100% support with an open mind. To encourage the more positive aspects of pregnancy. To give them the confidence they most likely lack to know that they Can DO it!
Those services, catholic or other, aren't going to be there at night when the mind won't shut off and your questioning why you didn't abort the baby etc.
I think this would help reduce abortions a great deal, because IMHO the majority of chickadees who choose to abort do so because they know, that no one is going to be there for them...


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

This is somewhat political as someone would have to pass a law. I think that all insurance companies, medicaid, etc. should have to cover all pre-natal care and births including those of underage girls.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

i think thats a fabulous idea, KatienDwayne.

more stuff like that


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Thank you. You know, I wonder what planned parenthood would think of this. I think I'll get something together & see if they would be interested in sponsering somethink like this. Do you guys think it would really help?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I bet money Planned Parenthood won't do it. When I was a pregnant teenager getting a pg test at their clinic, they weren't even polite once they found out I didn't want an abortion.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5*
I bet money Planned Parenthood won't do it. When I was a pregnant teenager getting a pg test at their clinic, they weren't even polite once they found out I didn't want an abortion.

I've found that to be true as well. The problem is that PP doesn't really want/need to get involved in helping pregnant women; and the Crisis centers that do want to help are usually very religious and only good at helping them not get an abortion, but don't do much in the long run. Another obstacle that I've found is that if you do find a decent crisis center, you have to be religious to volunteer! At least at the few I've inquired about. I find that horrible as it prevents people like me from helping, and I'd be a great counselor/support person! However, I haven't found Jesus so they don't want me.

I think a non-denomonational crisis center would be a great place to start....I've often thought of opening one, but don't have the funding at all.

Kristi


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Hmm. I was thinking. I had to go to PP to get a positive preg test so I could get state health insurance. I was beaming, I was really happy. The lady acted pretty shocked, and said "I take it your happy about this?" I was like, "Yes! Very!" She smiled. It was only after I went back out to the waiting room, I noticed all the very sad faces. So, I thought she must not see happy preg. girls in there very often. This was just last December.
It dosen't hurt to try though...
Hmm, what else could we do girls?
I mean, c'mon...This is something everyone feels so passionately about and will spend hours arguing or preaching to the choir about, either one...so, there must be some options/actions we can take....

I'll keep thinking.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

ok, im totally ignorant of how to make things like this happen, but im pretty good with the logical reasoning and planning thing. (comes from being mom to a "strong minded" child)
so heres my non-thought ahead of .02

what would be needed first is a mission statement.= this is what we believe we want to provide for such and such people,to acomplish this and that.

then a progess plan= these services and activitys specifcally we want to provide

then a business plan= obviously going bricks and moter would be out of the question, but what about starting on online presense-i have a little know how in the webdesign stuff....

then we need some researchers to look up fundraising options and grants-private and federal. to take it to the next level once the kinks of what this acually is, are worked out.
get a little publicity.....
even though im totally ignorant of this stuff i know many people have made wonderful things happend in this world just by following a thought through to the end.

silly?


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Fi, e-mail [email protected]
I don't think your silly at all. I have a family member (I adopted her as one. Shes been the most supportive person!) who is an accountant, good with grants, knows a lot about where to look etc. etc.
I don't know many people that I think would help with this, but the few I do know would support it 100%.
Katie


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5*
I bet money Planned Parenthood won't do it. When I was a pregnant teenager getting a pg test at their clinic, they weren't even polite once they found out I didn't want an abortion.

Yes, because Planned Parenthood only exists to perform abortions. Let's just perpetuate that myth all we can.

I don't think PP would do it themselves, because it's not really in their capacity. They're there to provide women with resources, like free/low cost medical exams, educational materials, contraceptives, and counseling. If you were to start an organization in your community that provided services for pregnant women, you would probably get a lot of referrals from PP, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to work with you.


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## earthmama007 (Dec 29, 2001)

I would love to help with this! I think when teens get pregnant they do need a friend who is older, wiser maybe even BTDT. They are scared and the last thing they need is someone not giving them full disclosure of their options. I would love to mentor someone in need. Count me in!


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## aishy (Dec 13, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
What if people signed up to 'adopt' a pregnant girl as a friend/mentor?
For instance, be someone who the girl you 'adopt' can call at 3am, vent, cry too etc. Just be there as her 100% support with an open mind. To encourage the more positive aspects of pregnancy. To give them the confidence they most likely lack to know that they Can DO it!
Those services, catholic or other, aren't going to be there at night when the mind won't shut off and your questioning why you didn't abort the baby etc.
I think this would help reduce abortions a great deal, because IMHO the majority of chickadees who choose to abort do so because they know, that no one is going to be there for them...

There is a Catholic Ministry called Gabriel Angel that does this. I did the training for it in August. Def. a good idea, I would have used it when I was pg with my oldest if I hadn't had family around & a certain net friend (who I no longer really speak to, but she did help me get through that time & i'll never forget that).

I went to a CPC that sat and talked to me about "knowing Jesus" and gave me Christian literature, even knowing I am Catholic. Talk about offended. I have a friend who also had a similar experience with the same place (around the same time, actually).

Aisling


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I am a volunteer at a CPC, and am going to be starting up with Birthright again soon too. FTR- Birthright is NOT a Catholic organization, yes- it was started by a Catholic woman, but- it is not in any way a religious organization, there is no preaching or "saving" at Birthright, and no requirement to be a religious person to work there. They do require though, that you not be an overly political right-to-lifer to volunteer there though (ie- can't be pictured on the front page of the paper protesting outside of a clinic).

IMNSHO there is a lot you can do outside of politics to end abortion. Education being a HUGE thing. By education, I don't mean just teaching teens about birth control, since, in my experience, the women I have seen in crisis pregnancies (which are many) all are fully educated about BC (Planned Parenthood pushes into the schools here), the vast majority of women/girls had BC available to them, and either chose not to use it, or used it and the condom broke or some other such problem.

I am also with an educational pro-life group- we push into the schools and teach fetal development and talk about abortion procedures, we are the other end of the Planned Parenthood education.

Both the CPC I work with and the educational group have counselors available by phone 24/7, and we do provide girls/women with a "mentor" of sorts.

I think the mentoring idea is a great one, and supporting the good CPCs that are already out there is a great way to help.

The CPC I am currently with is Evangelical, and they *do* preach, they have FAR more money/resources than the local Birthright, which IMO speaks volumes to the fact that the Evangelicals are the largest (by far) group out there seeking to help women have their babies. So- if you'd like to see more non-religious action on this front- it is up to *you* (general you) to make it happen, either get involved with existing groups like Birthright or start something in your own community.

I think there are many fronts which need to be addressed, education, support (emotional/financial) and prayer and voting for those so inclined.

Find a way to support and educate youth, and you are truly doing great work


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## sunbaby (Sep 30, 2002)

i think kristin, 'girlndocs', is close to an answer. helping girls once they are pregnant is great, i am all for it, but lets think about what gets these women in this situation in the first place. why did this woman get preganant? why does she want to abort?

the personal friends i know who have had abortions did so because they were under the influence of extreme stressors, and i believe this is more the norm than the villainized woman who says *ho hum. i am pregnant. how inconvenient. guess i'll wander in for an abortion...*

woman one- drug addict from early age gets pregnant again and again, due to being so drugged out so often that she is unable to be truly cognizant of the impact of her choices in her bedroom, and too cut off from herself to be distressed by the implications of abortion after abortion.

woman two- early in pregnancy, her fiance turns suddenly frightening abusive. afraid for her life, she must flee. pregnancy and a baby would certainly make it more complicated to extricate herself completely from the situation. she makes a snap desicion to abort, and regrets it forever.

in either of these real life cases, i believe the only real solution would be to intervene early in these girls lives. help them see thier own self worth. help them learn to set healthy boundaries and make choices that involve self love, rather than self-destruction. do all this BEFORE they are in the dangerous positions of being old enough to face choices about wether to use drugs, or who to have a relationship with.
get involved in the lives of girls. especially girls at risk. volunteer in schools. volunteer to work with abused kids who have become wards of the court...those are what i can think of now, but the possibilities are wide. look around and be creative.

a secondary type of solution is to aide in programs that legally protect women fleeing abuse. also programs that cover the practical side, such as the YWCA battered womens' shelter.

i also agree that educating boys better about what it is to be a good man are helpful. but i am inclined to beleive that the real solutions in reducing abortion are mostly going to come from women. when we get more in touch with all the power inside and among us, the men will follow.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Why the concentration on teenagers? The majority of women having abortions in the US are in their 20s. Six out of ten women having abortions already have at least one child. More than half intend to have another child in the future.

How would you try to influence these women not to have an abortion?

Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-kno...teristics.html


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## kblue (Jan 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Help raise girls who have a healthy self-image, good boundaries, confident self-assertion skills, thorough knowledge of their bodies and a clear understanding of conception, contraception and birth.

And boys who respect women as equals, are free from the objectification of women, and whose worldview includes parenting as just as much of a man's job as a woman's.
































This is where it all begins.

Unfortunately, many of those seeking abortion were not raised this way.







That's why I strongly believe child rearing education is just as important as sex education (if not more so). And I would even say the child rearing education should be based on AP principles.


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## spooky mom (Jul 3, 2004)

Quote:

Birthright ... is not in any way a religious organization, there is no preaching or "saving" at Birthright, and no requirement to be a religious person to work there.
Umm.. these places must vary greatly, because the friend of mine that went to one of those places for a test and was _yelled at_ and given brochures on why she is so bad and how she needs to change to make "God" happy. She wasn't even pregnant!
They also helped conince her to marry her abusive boyfriend. Yeah, that was helpful.

Planned Parenthoods must vary greatly, too. If you went to the one here for a pregnancy test, they'd also offer prenatal care. I've seen a lot of pregnant girls at the one I go to that are there for that reason. (It doesn't even offer abortions. Most of their clinics don't.)

If we do set up a sort of buddy program, we will need all of the buddies to be supportive of whatever the mother decides. I am all for helping a woman who truly wants to have her baby but feels pressured in the other direction, but these women need to make their own choices.

Edited to add:
You know those billboards that are usually intentionally misleading and try to guilt people into continuing their pregnancies? The ones that say half-truths about 7 week fetuses and then show a picture of a 25 week fetus? How about replacing those with signs that show young pregnant women and say "You haven't ruined your life, just changed it. You can do this."

Also, we need to be buddies for life with something like this. This would be a huge commitment. Parenting doesn't end with birth.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

There are two separate concepts being discussed here.
I. How to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
2. How to prevent abortions, once unintended pregnancies happen.

I believe it is a far more worthwhile goal to get behind efforts to prevent unplanned pregnancies in the first place if you want to reduce the number of abortions in the long term. It is a far trickier thing to attempt to "prevent" a woman from doing what she has decided to do in that situation. If you believe that most women have abortions because their circumstances make the prospect of having a child impossible, wouldn't it be more effective to work politically to address those circumstances? To address problems of education, jobs, affordable housing, affordable health care, and so on?


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

aishy - do you think you could give me some contact info on that church, even though what we want to do is going to be non-denominational. any info they might be willing to give would be helpful.

earthmama007 , i am pming you.

thanks for the stats choli, research will definatly be a big part of this

ok, me and KatienDwayne are attemping to form this into something organized.
i am looking into getting a forum or seperate board to start organizing the info.
ok, there are two main issues were attemping to tackle here.
one is to form a group of people willing just to sit down and think and talk alot about why these things are happening. and not to just do that a few times but to have that part of the whole thing, never to stop. and to definatly include people who have been in the situation. not just those wanting to help. o and not to just have our efforts focused on girls. so many people here have had wonderful thoughts and insights. i want to organize all that and more.
im not convinced we need to offer more of the same.

second- to provide support not often found to girls and boys who need it.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Haven't read all the posts, but here are some ideas:

*pass legislation that guarantees maternal custody of nurslings until self-weaned, and/or reinstitute the "tender age" statutes that are being abandoned by family courts due to pressure from father's rights groups. I have a friend who works at a crisis pregnancy center and a frequent concern she hears is that the bio dad has threatened to try to take custody of the baby. The pregnant mom doesn't want to turn into a "surrogate" who could lose her baby soon after birth.

*make it illegal for a woman to be pressured into an abortion whether it be through physical or psychological threats. While I know it would be hard to legislate this, it would send a good message. One of the most frequnt causes of abortion is the biodad pressuring the mom to have the abortion whether by threatening to kill himself/ her/ the child/ abandon them/ break up with her unless she has the abortion. etc (the mom's family also makes these kinds of threats a lot)

*make birth control easily available to all fertile and sexually active girls/ women who want it.

*make comfortable, safe housing available for all single moms

*easier access to food stamps

*universal healthcare, or at least universal maternity coverage (that includes access to homebirth/ midwife costs)

*breastfeeding awareness

just some thoughts!


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Some great ideas floating around here. But it sounds to me like the piece that's missing in communities is the support for women once they've already become mothers. Many women are convinced to have their babies, then left totally alone to raise them! So the late night calls from a pregnant mom is one thing, but how about the single sleep-deprived mom of a two month old that's on the fourth straight hour of crying at 3am?

Parenting classes, no questions asked drop off care for moms who need to get away for an hour, breastfeeding support, education about how the female body really works, community kitchens, play groups... and all those other things that will make a mother feel like a part of a village rather than a lone resident on the parenting island.

Start a neighbourhood babysitting co-op so women can find affordable childcare.

Lobby employers and tell them you want to see more respect for mothers. Tell those big corporations you want to see on-site day cares. Give your money to companies that are doing this, and pull your money from those that refuse to (and let them know why!).

Work with your local community centers or churches to reach out to women that are stastically at greater risk of choosing an abortion. Show them they have people to count on, then support them in the decisions they need to make for their families.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Yes, MtF.

Mamas need to know they won't lose their jobs over taking time off for a sick kid. They need to know that even if they work at Burger King they're entitled to pump. They need access to counseling & support for whatever parenting model they choose. They need to know they have the dignity of food & medical assistance without waiting 2 hours with small kids at some cattle-call office setting just to endure an interview with a rude social worker and jump through humiliating hoops. They need to know the law is really on their and their kids' sides if their partners are abusive. They need to be confident they won't end up on the streets with their kids, or without heat or power, because some idiotic loophole in the bureaucratic system leaves them screwed for help.

And they need that whether their kids are a week old, 6 months old, 5 or 10 or 16 years old.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

One other idea I found very interesting is the concept of "open adoption." In this type of situation adoptive children have contact with their biological parents. This option doesn't seem to be widely known and it might help with some of the pain through the thought of adoption.

http://www.genealogytoday.com/adopti...mn/040517.html


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Well, the sleep deprived mom with the 3 week old I'm sure would not be cut off from help. I've emailed my local state rep. for help/guidance of how to help or start something like this. I'll post more later.


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## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

Crisis Pregnancy Centers are the way to go..No one in a good center is going to beat you over the head with the Bible..They're there to give out pg tests, info on STD's, etc.

Our local center also gives out diapers, clothes, helps girls get on medicaid and WICand we're hoping to start parenting, childbirth and breastfeeding classes soon too..

Here's a link to find a center near you..

http://www.care-net.org/

They need volunteers, baby clothes, maternity items, cribs, etc..And money of course!









I'm on the board of directors for our local center and I





















it!!!


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

I am very opposed to CPC's. In NYC for example, they were so bad that the State Atty General opened an investigation into birthright, and several others.

About 10 years ago, a bunch got sued for practicing medicine. The "counselors" were lying to women about procedures and the assistance available. They also lied to them about how far along they were, so that the women would be unable to have an abortion if they so wanted.

Another large problem was that they offered assistance to teens that were pregnant, saying that they would help them if their parents threw them out. The girls would then wind up in foster care.

As a teen, I belonged to an organization called The Door. http://www.door.org/

They provided real assistance to teens. Medical care, job assistance, daycare, prenatal care, food, etc. Referrals if you wanted an abortion, help if you didn't. I saw a wonderful crunchy midwife there for routine gyn care.

Abstinece education is useless.

I agree with girlndocs, et al that more social services are needed. Many women in their 20's are just starting out, and need the help as much as teens do.

However, we must respect that there will always be women who want an abortion. They deserve respect and assistance too.


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Why the concentration on teenagers? The majority of women having abortions in the US are in their 20s. Six out of ten women having abortions already have at least one child. More than half intend to have another child in the future.

How would you try to influence these women not to have an abortion?

Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-kno...teristics.html


Has anyone addressed this posters question???? Why are we focusing on teens only! Here is a senario I posted and never got an answer to in the other abortion thread. This is a personal situation which could occur. I'm a young married women who works full and part time. My husband and I own a house. I am on birth control and have been for a long time. I voluteer teaching martial arts primarily self-defense to to women at womens shelters locally as well as to their children. I get kicked punched thrown hit teaching these women and thwir children possibly life saving things. I also am a foster home for dogs. We usually do greyhounds but we work with other groups. We take the more difficult dogs the ones which cannot be placed in just any home. Most of the dogs I take in have aggression issues, some are injured(hit by cars, broken legs, attacked by other dogs etc) some need me to lift them to take them out to the bathroom, some have pulled me to the ground learning to walk on a leash....most dogs are 75lbs+ so they are not light. Now if I was to become pregnant I would seek an abortion.
Here is why
- I would be unable to teach anymore, thats my life thats what I do I don't want to give that up. The teaching I do is SO important and the classes I teach can save lives and give women courage to protect themselves and thei children
- We CANNOT bring children into our house for the foster work we do. We would loose the ability to do this life saving work and reabilitate dogs who otherwise would be put down. If I was pregant I would not be albe to life the dogs and teach them to walk on a leash etc..
- My personal dog is not allowed around children.
-My husband and I have decided we like to travel and take cruises and do active things therefore we have decided to not have children.
-I'm in that 56% of women in their (me mid) 20's

How would you address me? I'm serious. Alot of women I know who have had abortions are married and working just like me we are the ones not the teens.

PS: if you are wondering why I'm on this board read my other post it explains I'm here to learn and help the women I teach.


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## Annie (Feb 14, 2004)

It seems like to me that all moms and families in this country need way ore support and that this country is very child/familie UNfriendly.

More support in all stages of growth. From better more available maternity care to much much better and longer paid maternity leave. I really like the system they have in what seems like almost all other industrialized countries. Maybe use that all that money that goes to corporate welfare as incentive to bussiness, or put it into towards this directly?

ITA about onsite daycare, localized communities, etc. I was hoping we'd have these thing s in place by the time i become a mom but doesnt look like it. Oh well, hopefully my kids will have it better.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

MTF,

How can we get involved with this kind of stuff?

Quote:

Parenting classes, no questions asked drop off care for moms who need to get away for an hour, breastfeeding support, education about how the female body really works, community kitchens, play groups... and all those other things that will make a mother feel like a part of a village rather than a lone resident on the parenting island.

Start a neighbourhood babysitting co-op so women can find affordable childcare.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

well i thanked choli for her info and link, i put it in my fav folder to go over later when we are organizing info.









there has been alot of talk about youth here, but i dont see that anyone has said that only the young need help. did i miss those comments?

i personally dont know the statistics, but stats arnt always accurate, as most of you know.

in a descussion like this i dont see the need to get defensive. if theres more info to consider please submit it.
lots of people dont get there comments or questions directly answered, i dont think this means anything.









im enjoying everyones views and experiances. since i am only one person i only have my own. as does everyone.

one thought i have about why many people focus on the youth is that they generally have less support than "grown-ups" do.
and since a large majority of unwanted pregnancys happen by uneducated low income youth, plus those babies that do get born into low income families have a much harder time making it work.
you said your situation doesnt allow for children so you are on the pill. thats great. alot of youth dont have your sound responsibility.

keep going everyone, i want to hear more opinions and ideas.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

fionnsmom said:


> one thought i have about why many people focus on the youth is that they generally have less support than "grown-ups" do.
> and since a large majority of unwanted pregnancys happen by uneducated low income youth, plus those babies that do get born into low income families have a much harder time making it work.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Less than 20% of abortions are performed on teenagers. I don't have stats on hand as to what percentage of that 20% are "uneducated, low income", but it would stand to reason that uneducated low income teens would have LESS access to abortion, not more.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

is that 20% in the USA or the world or what?
and where did those stats come from. and how do they compile them?
is that this year?
is there much difference in different years?
and i assume that percentage goes up to age 19, what about the stats for up to 24 year olds?
and is there much difference in teen abortions in different citys, say somewhere in texas as opposed to new jersey?

plus you know its not just abortions that are the issue, its young pregnancy. what are the stats on that?
since abortion isnt really the core issue, its uninformed and irresponible sex that is the core issue.
and how about HIV stats on the youth?
and miscarraiges?
and adoptions?
you cant just say only 20% of abortions are from teens and say that proves theres not a huge and growing problem with youth sex.
it seems youd have to compile several aspects of this to get a close to fair view....

and im not sure about everybody else but when i say youth, my range does not stop at 19 years of age. i would say my definition of youth would have to go up to somewhare like 24-25.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fionnsmom*
you cant just say only 20% of abortions are from teens and say that proves theres not a huge and growing problem with youth sex.

So, from your point of view this is not about non-political things we can do to reduce abortions, this is about disapproval of young people having sex?


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## hvl25 (Jan 28, 2003)

work to get mandatory insurance coverage for BC. currently only 21 states are required to have it as mandatory coverage for birth control. 30 states do not. Work to have those states made mandatory. also, i think better sex education. Instead of preaching/teaching abstinence, teach about effective birth control and the proper ways to use each one. And make them accesible/free to teens with out parental knowledge/permission. And free to low income. Does state insurance pay for BC? I'm not sure about that.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

By the way, all of the stats I've posted are from the same source

Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-kn...cteristics.html

You can read about their research methods at their site.

It just seems strange to me that no-one wants to address the fact that so many of those who choose abortion are women (not "children") who already have had children and/or who intend to have more children in the future.

It's rather simplistic to pretend that it's all about teen moms and poverty. It's not.


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## earthmama007 (Dec 29, 2001)

I thought more teens and college age women were the majority. I have no stats on that, sorry. It was something I assumed. It made sense to me bc these age groups are less likely to have a support group bc they are young and are expected to or want to finish school. They probably aren't aware that there is so many govt assistance programs available. Plus, it they are just plain scared. I know I would have been even if I was in that position. I am certainly not saying that ONLY teens and young adults get abortions. Adults are certainly not looked down on as much as a teen would. This is solely my opinions-just for clarification.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

how did you get "you cant just say only 20% of abortions are from teens and say that proves theres not a huge and growing problem with youth sex."= disapproval of young people having sex???

did my questions about your short stat seem like i was attacking you. so far i have seen noone being that way so far.

i notice you have no answers for any of them.
i see noone being simplistic in this thread, are we all not allowed to share our thoughts and ideas here on any of the aspect of this? if you think we are all so misinformed then by all means share your perspective. but please do it in a less defensive way.

shall i repeat my comment about how if everyone doesnt jump to answer one posters question that it does not represent rageing ignorance and blindness to the real issues?

anyway, back to the real point of this thread. sharing thoughts and ideas.

hvl25, i agree that would be a good thing, do they teach alot of abstinace in BC, over hear on the west coast thats practically unheard of. personally most of the people i know have had good education about birth controll. it just doesnt seem to take.
some people have mentioned teaching more self-confidance. i wonder if that would be the key?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fionnsmom*
how did you get "you cant just say only 20% of abortions are from teens and say that proves theres not a huge and growing problem with youth sex."= disapproval of young people having sex???

How do YOU get "and say that proves theres not a huge and growing problem with youth sex" from "Less than 20% of abortions are performed on teenagers."? I didn't say it proved anything.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fionnsmom*

anyway, back to the real point of this thread. sharing thoughts and ideas.

hvl25, i agree that would be a good thing, do they teach alot of abstinace in BC, over hear on the west coast thats practically unheard of. personally most of the people i know have had good education about birth controll. it just doesnt seem to take.
some people have mentioned teaching more self-confidance. i wonder if that would be the key?


I think that might be more the key(self-confidence), here in NY, students get all of the education on BC and it is readily available. As I said previously, the vast majority of women/girls I have known who were in crisis pregnancies had full knowledge and access to BC, and either it failed, or they *chose* not to use it (sometimes under pressure from boyfriends). Of the married women I have known who considered abortion, there was a suspected problem with the child, or- they felt they could not afford another child.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm not sure where the talk about lack of access to birth control is coming from.

Quote:

And make them accesible/free to teens with out parental knowledge/permission. And free to low income. Does state insurance pay for BC? I'm not sure about that.
I work for the health department in MD and any woman who wants to can come in and get the pill, an IUD, a cervical cap, a diaphragm, condoms... Anyone.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

here in many citys in WA state there is good access to free BC. but i know its not the same everywhere. and in many places, while help is available, many people choose not to go get it. i find that theres alot of help for when youve already decided what you want to do, but not much support. other than pushy religous help to decide what to do.
when most new mothers i know, old or young are overwhelmed by the changes a baby bring, (i mean the ones who planned and wanted babies) many dont even know what possibilitys exist and simply cannot make an informed decision.

i guess it comes down to whos responisibility is it to teach self-worth. and if those responsibilitys arent being met, than we need more action from other avenues.

if there could be a formation of all or most of the help services i think it would be a lot easier to get that kind of thing to work.
maybe some sort of , well, im not quite there yet, but im working on it.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

What about planned pregnancies? I keep telling my story as an example, but no one has answered my questions. I wanted to have a baby. However, I was so sick. I threw up more than a dozen times a day. I often couldn't even keep water down, and had to go to the hospital. I couldn't leave my bathroom most of the time, let alone my house. I was lonely, isolated, depressed, etc. I seriously considered an abortion because I didn't know if I could take it any more. However, I did manage, but I know not eveyrone would be able to. Not all abortions are the result of unplanned pregnancies. I know a few other examples, but they aren't my stories to tell.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
What about planned pregnancies? I keep telling my story as an example, but no one has answered my questions. I wanted to have a baby. However, I was so sick. I threw up more than a dozen times a day. I often couldn't even keep water down, and had to go to the hospital. I couldn't leave my bathroom most of the time, let alone my house. I was lonely, isolated, depressed, etc. I seriously considered an abortion because I didn't know if I could take it any more. However, I did manage, but I know not eveyrone would be able to. Not all abortions are the result of unplanned pregnancies. I know a few other examples, but they aren't my stories to tell.

I will speak just for me, I signed onto this thread to discuss "non-political things we can do to reduce abortions", I didn't sign on to debate the reasons women have abortions and the "rightness" or "wrongness" of those abortions. If you want to know what pro-lifers think of your scenario, you could start a thread on that and pro-lifers interested in discussing that could answer you.

I am not trying to be snarky, just trying to let you know why I am not getting into your question, I came to discuss the OP, which I assume most everone here did.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

ditto, although i got off track for a sec, now im back on it.

where do you think something like confidence boosting should begin? in schools, local public places like librarys. should it just be literature or perhaps we could scedual speakers.

ok, heres my thoughts on this angle so far.

we would need,
mission statement
deep research on female and male confidence
social and sociatal phycology understanding
everyones organized involvment in an ongoing discussion of just what is the problem and how to help it.

to do:
literature
resource lists including books, websites
confidance boosting activities
speakers


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint*
I will speak just for me, I signed onto this thread to discuss "non-political things we can do to reduce abortions", I didn't sign on to debate the reasons women have abortions and the "rightness" or "wrongness" of those abortions. If you want to know what pro-lifers think of your scenario, you could start a thread on that and pro-lifers interested in discussing that could answer you.

I am not trying to be snarky, just trying to let you know why I am not getting into your question, I came to discuss the OP, which I assume most everone here did.

I didn't take it as snarky. However, the scenario does relate to the OP. I am just wondering what people could do to reduce abortions in those situations? I didn't state that to discuss the rightness or wrongness. I just woudl like to know what to do for women that were in my situation. I am pro-choice, but if a woman wants to have a baby, but feels she can't go through with the pregnancy liek I felt, how do we help her get through it?


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

the_lissa-

Gosh, I don't know, love, support, proper medical care? I really don't know what you could do beyond regular friendship stuff like helping with cooking, cleaning, just being there.


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I didn't take it as snarky. However, the scenario does relate to the OP. I am just wondering what people could do to reduce abortions in those situations? I didn't state that to discuss the rightness or wrongness. I just woudl like to know what to do for women that were in my situation. I am pro-choice, but if a woman wants to have a baby, but feels she can't go through with the pregnancy liek I felt, how do we help her get through it?

Did you read the article in Mothering about using marijuana to battle sickness in pregnancy? What did you think of that?

Sorry it was so rough on you btw. I've read this a couple times now, and it always makes me thankful I've had things so easy.







s


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint*
the_lissa-

Gosh, I don't know, love, support, proper medical care? I really don't know what you could do beyond regular friendship stuff like helping with cooking, cleaning, just being there.

I had all that and I still could barely handle it. Now you are sounding snarky. I don't know why. I'm coming up with other reasons why women have abortions and trying to figure out what to do to help them. It is not uncommon for women with hyperemisis gravidum to also have depression and other similar disorders. I think it is a valid concern when trying to reduce abortions.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaToFallon*
Did you read the article in Mothering about using marijuana to battle sickness in pregnancy? What did you think of that?

Sorry it was so rough on you btw. I've read this a couple times now, and it always makes me thankful I've had things so easy.







s


No I didn't see that article, but I had heard of it. I am new to mothering. I didn't know I was going to be so AP when I was pregnant. The only thing I knew was that I would breastfeed. I don't know if I would try it though. I'm a paranoid person re: putting anything in my body, especially when pregnant, but it is definitely worth looking into for next time.

Thanks for your nice words. I try to be thankful that I didn't have it worse. I know women who had to be hospitalized the entire nine months or did not have a support system. That would be pretty awful.


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

I think it all starts in the home and in the upbringing of the daughter. If every girl were raised in a way that she didn't feel the need to be promiscuous, then teen pregnancy wouldn't be an issue, thus, less abortions. Of course, I know that's not realistic. (And not all abortions are for preg. teens.) So better sex education absolutely. And better access to counseling and mentors. Teen girls need to know that they are loved and that they have support from someone, somewhere. So that if they did become pregnant, they would make the choice to either keep the baby or put baby up for adoption. Wow, this could become a long essay if I kept going.


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

Oh, and I think it's great to teach abstinence in schools. It really is the most effective form of BC. Of course, it's not realistic to expect all teens to abstain. So teach abstinence, as well as birth control techniques.


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## ilmbmta (Jul 14, 2004)

Milky Way said:


> Now if I was to become pregnant I would seek an abortion.
> Here is why
> - I would be unable to teach anymore, thats my life thats what I do I don't want to give that up. The teaching I do is SO important and the classes I teach can save lives and give women courage to protect themselves and thei children
> - We CANNOT bring children into our house for the foster work we do. We would loose the ability to do this life saving work and reabilitate dogs who otherwise would be put down. If I was pregant I would not be albe to life the dogs and teach them to walk on a leash etc..
> ...


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## be11ydancer (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milky Way*
.... Now if I was to become pregnant I would seek an abortion.
Here is why..........

Oh. My. Gosh.


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

I don't believe I asked anyone to judge me. I simply asked how someone would address a person in my shoes. I'm not a teen I'm a married woman who is very educated with a well paying job. One poster who's post has since been removed said they would help me find a doctor to talk to me about a tubal ligation. I think young women like me are stuck between a rock and a hard place because I've sought out many a doctor but no one will perform a tubal on someone in their mid 20's. So what do I do if my birth control fails on me?

As far as the snide remaks over valuing dogs lives over my own flesh and blood I think that was uncalled for and you clearly did not read the other reasons why I have chosen not to have a child of my own. You don't see me mocking you for choices you have made in your life? Regarding the work(voluntering aside a full time job and a university) I do it makes impacts in many people's lives and saves lives everyday even if those lives aren't human they eventually effect human lives. Somewhere along the lines one of you might have one of the dogs I saved that I spent countless hours reabilitating, playing with your children, kissing you in the face, going on a walk with your grandparents, making you smile. You never know but I might have helped your family grow and expand all while saving lives. You also forgot that I do work in a womens shelter and see women who are faced with the decision to abort or keep their unborn children every week. I see women walk in beaten from head to toe with their faces swollen crying to me unsure of what to do, unsure if their child to be or current child has been injured. I help them and other women by teaching them self defense and if they have children teaching them simply acts of selfdefense that next time might save their lives and their childrens. I come to this board for info on breastfeeding and parenting that I can pass on to some of the women that I meet and hopefully change their lives for the better. The life I have chosen to live is one that does not include a child and there is nothing wrong with that. I know that is hard for most women on here to understand because they cannot see how another women would not want the joy and happiness a child brings but some lives are ment to serve another purpose. Truthfully I'm very happy with the things I have and the way my life is I don't want to change that. It's a choice my husband and I have made and we know it's right for us as well as the many other lives(cannine and human) that cross our paths.


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## earthmama007 (Dec 29, 2001)

Maybe your husband might consider a vasectomy. I don't know what I would tell you honestly. Of course, your husband might not want to do that. I understand what you are saying but it is hard to see your POV as you stated.

FTR: I am by no means judguing you just adding my thoughts!


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Milky Way*
The life I have chosen to live is one that does not include a child and there is nothing wrong with that.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the point! No woman should be forced to have a baby, regardless of her reasons.

I think the recent comments about MW's decision are uncalled for. She's asking an honest question, and giving an honest picture of her situation - what's a woman who doesn't want to use her body for reproduction to do? Being judgemental and not offering anything constructive goes against the very purpose of this thread.

MW... If you are sure in your choices and feel strongly about not using abortion as an option, I would consider permanent medical procedures for you or your husband, as has been suggested. You say you can't find a doctor to do a procedure, so in this case that's where I'd start. Fight for your right to that choice. You are of legal age to make decisions for your body, so if this is your decision then someone should stand up for your right to make it. A doctor telling you you're too young to know what you really want is insulting. (Though I certainly do understand their reasoning. People change.) I'd imagine if you went to a pro-life clinic and told them what you've said here they should help you find a doctor that would support this choice over potential abortion.

Other less intrusive things you could do to lessen the chances of pregnancy would be to double up on birth control methods - take the pill, use condoms, and track your cycle so you can avoid sex during fertile times of the month, for example. Obviously not 100% fool-proof, but every little bit (statistically) should help.

For what it's worth, I think your desire to not have children is just as valid as my desire to have them. Your body, your choice.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I had all that and I still could barely handle it. Now you are sounding snarky. I don't know why. I'm coming up with other reasons why women have abortions and trying to figure out what to do to help them. It is not uncommon for women with hyperemisis gravidum to also have depression and other similar disorders. I think it is a valid concern when trying to reduce abortions.

Wooo- slow down now. I am very sincerely sorry that you read that as snarky, I completely did not mean it as so, I thought my previous mention trying to convey my tone would carry through. (it is very hard to read tone online and what I meant was far from meant to be snarky, it was meant to convey my honest lack of answer) I really meant what I said- really. I do not know what we could do for a woman in that situation. I would venture to guess that you, having been through it would have the best idea of what "we" could do to help a woman in that situation. What kind of answer could we possibly give to your question? I would support the mama every way I could and help her seek the best medical care available. What more could I do? Pray for her- but I doubt that is the kind of answer being looked for.

That all said, I think the case you are describing is EXTREMELY rare, that someone first would have it as badly as you did, and to the point where they would abort a wanted child. Do you have ideas of what could be done, having been in those shoes?

I think discussing rare situations is valuable, as they do come up. I also think there is a lot to be said for figuring out the reasons that the majority of women feel they need to abort, and figuring out how to help them.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Milky Way-

Your decision not to have a child is your own, you don't need to defend that here.

IMNSHO though- you do have a responsibility to do everything in your power to seek permanent sterilization, as should your dh, as I think that *that* would be a proactive way to deal with your choices, without risking the life of another human being.

If you want to PM me where you live, I will do all I can to help you find a Dr. who will perform the procedures.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Well then it seems there are groups with different needs.

- Teenage girls.
- Unmarried women in their 20s & 30s, etc...
- Married women in their 20s, 30s, etc... (no judgement Milkyway, but I think you are the exception. I would assume that most women who are married would be happy about the pg and have the baby. I certainly do not think less of you for wanting to remain childless. If sterilization is not an option, you may want to start charting your fertility. Read "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and that way you can avoid sex on the days you are most fertile.)

I wonder what the statistics are. Does anyone keep them?

And perhaps each group needs a different tactic.

I personally would focus on teen girls or unmarried women.

*I would love to see some women get education on DATING.* The kind of guy to stick around for (give your all) and the kind of guy to keep away from and break up with (don't waste your precious time on.)

When I was 23 I was dating a guy/lived with him for a year. We sometimes had unprotected







sex. (He wanted to see what it felt like.) I caught a sexually transmitted disease (chlamydia.) He was my first boyfriend. It's a freaking







: MIRACLE I never got pg. If I did, I would have been ROYALLY screwed for the rest of my life
A) have an abortion, which neither of us would have wanted
B) give the baby up for adoption (he would never go for this and neither would I)
C) (most likely) keep the baby and be tied to the hip to this LOSER (no job, was in a "band", disrespectful to me, smoked pot recreationally) who had a horrible relationship with his mother (anger directed at her over their divorce, years of turmoil growing up.)

Both of us would have ended up marrying other people, but share custody of our child. That would have been hell on the child (his/her feelings of sadness, disappointment, whatever) and me because he would do things differently (different house, different rules)... And if he remarried some JERK (who resented my child or the time he spent with her) then that would add another potential layer of BS for that child (and me) to deal with.

If I chose to leave the state (to follow my new husband - as so many people do) then my child would suffer the consequences of not seeing her biological father on a regular basis.







So... that would force ME to stay put, putting my life on hold (next 18 years) for the benefit of my child.

That wasn't clear to me when we were dating. It became crystal clear after we broke up and HOW LUCKY I WAS NOT TO have gotten pg.

*So perhaps educating women and helping them







open their eyes to who they are dating.*
Is this the type of guy you can have children with and live happily ever after?
Is this the man you want to be the father of your children?
If the answer is NO to either of those questions (there are probably more questions), move on, because pregnancy is always a possibility.

*Other questions*
Would you regret your abortion? (I know I would, that's why it's not an option for me!)
So how do you avoid being faced with that choice? See first 2 questions.

Women need to be forewarned... and least then they can make more intelligent choices.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint*
Wooo- slow down now. I am very sincerely sorry that you read that as snarky, I completely did not mean it as so, I thought my previous mention trying to convey my tone would carry through. (it is very hard to read tone online and what I meant was far from meant to be snarky, it was meant to convey my honest lack of answer) I really meant what I said- really. I do not know what we could do for a woman in that situation. I would venture to guess that you, having been through it would have the best idea of what "we" could do to help a woman in that situation. What kind of answer could we possibly give to your question? I would support the mama every way I could and help her seek the best medical care available. What more could I do? Pray for her- but I doubt that is the kind of answer being looked for.

That all said, I think the case you are describing is EXTREMELY rare, that someone first would have it as badly as you did, and to the point where they would abort a wanted child. Do you have ideas of what could be done, having been in those shoes?

I think discussing rare situations is valuable, as they do come up. I also think there is a lot to be said for figuring out the reasons that the majority of women feel they need to abort, and figuring out how to help them.

I'm sorry I took it wrong. You are right- it is exceedingly difficult to convey tone online.

This is something I have been thinking about. I don't know what to do in these situations. I really want another, but don't know if I can do it. Labour/birth was way easier for me than nine months of constant sickness. I was on meds. I had friends/family/hubby help me, and it was still hard. I can't even imagine how hard it would be if you didn't have support, so maybe one thing would be to start a support group for pregnant women with specific things for women with hyperemis, women with placenta previa, women with x, y,z, etc. I don't knwo what else though. I just know it was the hardest thing I have experienced in my life, and I can see how some women might not be able to handle it.


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

Milky Way- i want to add my voice to those who are defending you. i dont know if your still reading this thread or not. but know that you need not explain nor defend yourself to anyone and i am truely sorry that you were so badly treated here.
i would understand if you did not feel like perticipating anymore but if you are interested in offering your voice to the little website im attempting to make for this issue please let me know. take care.

Tanibani, you are soooo right. and im glad you said something. i really believe most woman in this contry have severly lowered there standards.
i think that fits right along with teaching self-esteem. teach our girls and woman how they should be treated and what they should put up with.
did anyone see the oprah that had that writer from sex and the city who wrote that bood called "hes just not that into you"?

i know i and most of my friends could definatly use some education along this line. would you be interested in attemping to compile some info on this subject with me?

i dont mean to be pushy folks but does anyone have any suggestions on the comments i made before on my list? i just cant figure out everything on my own.


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## earthmama007 (Dec 29, 2001)

My suggestion is to add self esteem counseling while teaching sex ed in schools.

Just another thought: I know that many girls and boys for that matter don't get the one on one attention because of one or both parents working and we have simply lost track of what is important-Family Time. The enourmous divorce rate is taking a toll on our youth. I was a child from a divorced family. Even though I didn't know it at the time, I needed a parent to guide me and fill in those gaps of time that I had without parental situation. I could have been spared a lot of heartache if I would have had a parent or mentor. I was just a child. I was one of the lucky ones who turned out okay.

If I had gotten pregnant while being a teen I know I would have needed someone to help me through it all and I would have like to know ALL of my options.


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## mgmsmommy (Jun 24, 2003)

I agree totally with everything you had to say Tanibani. I really wish that more people would realize that bc is never 100% effective because I think many that do use bc assume that it will not fail, not thinking about the fact that it could be a real possibility. Education on dating gets a big thumbs up.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I don't know that "self esteem counseling" (especially institutionalized, public-school-centered self-esteem counseling) would make much if any difference. Self esteem ccomes from within, but it has its roots in the picture of ourselves we receive from those around us -- our families, our culture.

Also, to expect self-esteem counseling to make headway against the problems in our culture would be like bailing out the ocean with a teaspoon. Our society's messages about sex, women, men, families, money, self-worth, birth, childrearing, consumerism and a million other things are just f*cked up, way beyond what a little bit of cumpulsory school counseling could possibly undo.

I'm thinking more and more that the most effective way to address these problems is one person at a time, one family at a time. We can slowly crumble a f*cked up paradigm from the inside if we turn our backs on consumerism and the pervasive media, examine our "morals" and religious dictates with scrutinizing eyes, treat sex as a matter of biology not morality, remove the shame from all matters reproductive, emrace feminism, fight against a government that values business over the family & the individual and start extending true acceptance of every woman's reproductive & sexual choices.

The personal IS the political.

For those inclined to activism outside their own families, we can work on promoting legislation that's family-friendly, spread information about pregnancy & birth with dignity, educate about attachment parenting & alternative lifestyle choices and make birth control widespread, a basic knowledge like doing the laundry and totally without shame.

Think global, act local.


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## earthmama007 (Dec 29, 2001)

Right, ITA. I should have elaborated. Give like a mini course of such and then I think for it to work, we could offer free couseling outside of school or after school. We could include information for the children to be able to contact a mentor. Does that make more sense? I was looking at it as just another venue to work with.


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Hmmm... Where did my post go?

Anyway, just wanted to say that you rock Kristin!







Totally hit that nail on the head!


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## lorrielink (May 31, 2002)

well i agree that a little compulsary school counseling would do nothing at all. that isnt at all what i meant by my comments. and i dont think thats what earth mama meant either. just getting sex ed in school in the first place took alot of fight, and while it might not be making a big difference i think its on the right path. self-esteem may come from within, but its sure influenced by all the outside sources. which i believe you mentioned several major ones as a good point.

i dont think anyone has the perfact answer , thats why i think theres major call for big discussion.

im a little confused that you say its like bailing an ocean with a teaspoon to try to organize help for self-esteem and education but we should work on one person at a time. isnt that a little like the same thing?

just to clarify, im not being argumentative, im just looking for a little clarification of your comments.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I think although working within our own families may seem small, and like only a little bit, it produces a far more lasting & deep change than anything else can. I think that if school counseling = bailing out the ocean with a teaspoon, then raising our families consciously for change would be like coral, building a gigantic reef molecules at a time







.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Think global, act local.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

People simply need to be more responsible for their behavior.

Unfortunately, we live in a time and in a society that blames all of life's calamities on other forces, so no one is responsible for their actions any longer.

The Netherlands had a very high abortion rate in the 1960's and lowered it by making contraception very available. However, the Netherlands and Amsterdam in particular has always been a society tolerant of open sexuality and sexual behavior.

They do have their limits apparently when they decided to do something affirmative to lower their abortion rates. They do have national health care there and are very socialistic.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spooky mom*
U\
You know those billboards that are usually intentionally misleading and try to guilt people into continuing their pregnancies? The ones that say half-truths about 7 week fetuses and then show a picture of a 25 week fetus? How about replacing those with signs that show young pregnant women and say "You haven't ruined your life, just changed it. You can do this."

Also, we need to be buddies for life with something like this. This would be a huge commitment. Parenting doesn't end with birth.

I love this idea! I think we do women a disservice when we attempt to guilt them into having a baby or into having an abortion. I think we need to meet them where they are and go from there.
Annette


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

OK, here are some ideas-
FOR TEENS
- take the "crisis pregnancy center" model and make it non-religious. Make sure there are systems in place that help all throughout the pregnancy- get these girls doulas, mentor moms, playgroups, free clothing and toy days, parenting classes with free child care, teen LLL, sling lending library, access to free medical/legal advice etc. as well as counseling and support for girls who lose babies or do choose to have an abortion

-my church has something called "Elizabeth Ministry" that is committed to helping women through all aspects of childbearing- TTC, infertility, miscarriage, abortion recovery, adoption, as well as "typical" birth

- FAMILY sex education- either a program families do at home or something through churches or community centers that treat sex as something we can be open about

FOR ADULTS
- work on changing adoption law so it's easier both for the birth mom and the adoptive parents.

- more "safe haven" laws, and really get the word out that it's a choice

- better access to medical care so the cost of carrying a pregnancy to term isn't an issue


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

Sheesh, that really got flamey there for a minute.

I just wanted to chime in about what I'm trying to do to help curb unwatned pregnancies.

I was wondering, how could *I* make a difference- what is something *I* personally could do to help educate girls- well, I'm a girl, so naturally I think along these lines- plus who does the responsibility of pregnancy fall on?

Anyway, I'm making each of my pregnancies, especially the labor and delivery part, available to the teen girls in my life. I invite them to be present at my births. I had one girl watch my last birth (she tried to make the one before, but the babe came too fast.) I plan to have one at each future births as well.


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## paddyfinnsmom (Sep 18, 2003)

Very interesting thread. Good stuff here. I need to read through it all more thoroughly but wanted to post this article I found. It basically says in general terms what many have already stated here. I guess it's the specifics that need to be flushed out. I'm not posting it to start a politics debate, btw.







Just more thought on the abortion issue and how socio-economic factors influence the rate of occurrence.
Abortion rate rises


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## Milky Way (Sep 17, 2004)

I found that article really interesting. I think alot of the rise has to do with the loss of jobs that has occured under Bush. I think people found themselves in a position where they felt they could not afford to take care of themselves or their current family or they lost their health care and well chose not to expand their family. Some may have to do with millitary families women finding out they are pregant then realizing their husband will be gone for over a year. (my cousins wife was in this position found out she was pregant three days after my cousin was deployed he was gone for 16 monthes, she had an abortion) I also wonder how 911 effected people. Ie the concept of I don't want to bring a child into this world full of war and hate for fear what kid of world it will grow up in. Just a few things I thought of after reading the article. What do others think?


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