# Responding to criticism



## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

I'm a new mom, my baby is one week old. My husband and I made the decision not to circumcise as soon as we learned we were having a boy. I've never doubted this decision my entire pregnancy and have always shrugged off disapproving comments from family members. But right now, being the hormonal mess I am, I'm finding it difficult to combat their negativity. Most have laid off and are choosing to respect my decision, but my mother is relentless. As a nurse, she has admitted to me that it's a cosmetic procedure and STILL won't lay off! She sends me a bombardment of texts every morning about how as a female I don't have the right to make this decision for him. She says things like "women won't want to sleep with him" and "he'll give his future partners hpv". She thinks I'm doing this because I'm too young to know better and that this is a sign I wasn't ready for motherhood. I'm not going to change my mind, but it's getting hard to deal with and I need reassurance that this is right for my son. It's hard to have your parenting questioned, especially this early into motherhood. She has me questioning if I'm doing right by my child. 


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

This is a great opportunity for you to practice drawing boundaries. I like the broken record theory myself. After you've given her your reasons a sufficient number of times (which it sounds like you have) you can just say, "This is not up for discussion. His father and I have already made up my mind." Repeat as many times as necessary, in a pleasant and non-emotional voice. Then change the subject. Really, that's all you have to do. Don't even try to reason with her.


Same thing with anyone else who tries to broach the topic. And really, why are they so interested in your child's circumcision status anyway?? Geesh. That's on them, not you!


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yep, not up for further discussion. If she continues laying into you, you may need to consider forfeiting her babysitting privileges in the near future. That usually reels the grandmas into line.

P.S. My son is 19, intact and not a single one of his girlfriends, past or present, has had an issue with his wholeness.


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

Thank you both! @philomom it's especially helpful for me to hear that intact adults are happy with their parents decision and don't have any problems.

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## alivewithyou (Nov 1, 2013)

@bren94: my husband was never circumcized and he is perfectly happy and content and I didn't care that he wasn't. In fact, because of him, I would never get the procedure done if we had a boy. You know what's right for your baby, trust your instincts and decisions.


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## japonica (May 26, 2005)

bren94 said:


> She sends me a bombardment of texts every morning about how as a female I don't have the right to make this decision for him.


You should say, "You're right. All of that is his decision to make once he's an adult," (and as we know, chances are pretty good he'll want to stay as is). I find her logic a bit strange&#8230;you don't have the right to keep him whole? How odd.

I just wanted to reaffirm what others said about boundaries and standing your ground. You're the parent. BTW the "tradition" on my side of the family was that boys stayed intact and I don't recall ever hearing through the family grapevine about anyone having problems or requiring surgery in later years etc. There's an excellent thread somewhere on "what's normal" that you should read because you'll also likely run into doctors over the years who are sadly very misinformed about normal physiological processes.

Hang in there and congrats on your little man. Love his name too BTW.


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

Just say, "Mom, you are sending me multiple texts a day about my son's penis and sex life, and it's really inappropriate. I won't tolerate any more discussion on this topic."

Repeat as necessary, and refuse to discuss. She is being very creepy, fixating on his penis like this.

To ease your fears, as a 28-year-old in Canada (where circ rates declined a bit earlier) about 2/3 of my partners have been intact. It is better.

It's the norm in some Muslim countries to practice female genital cutting--would you have your daughter cut just because people in your family expected it? No. The cycle has to break sometime, and in this case, in your family, it's with you.


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

Thanks everyone! 
@japonica yeah her logic is completely illogical.

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## Veritas Vitae (Dec 26, 2011)

I just wanted to add my 2c, my husband is intact, and very happy with his parents decision. He has never had any issues with cleanliness, or STIs or anything.

Also, not that your sons future sex life is ANY of her business, but, as the partner of an intact male, I have to say that I actually prefer it. Also, I didn't even know he was intact for several weeks after we started sleeping together because he was (sorry for the TMI) already to go, and you can't tell so much at that point. However, I did think he had the prettiest penis I had ever seen (is that weird). I later discovered it was because he didn't have all the scar tissue from circumcision, which I had always found pretty disturbing. I had never made the connection in my head, that that was actually scar tissue.


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

OP I just want to add my voice to the chorus here. You've made the right choice for your child. Whether anyone else agrees with it is irrelevant. Your mom is basically bullying you at a very sensitive time when you should be focusing on healing and bonding.

If it was me, I would let her know that you find her continued harping on this subject inappropriate and unacceptable. Then stop talking to her for a bit. Take a week or so to not have contact, then if she's ready to drop the subject you can invite her to call/text/visit again. I've had to do this with my parents before, especially when I was a young new mother. It works.

Also, FWIW I know intact males ranging in age from my 21 month old son to adults my own age (including former lovers). Not one has ever had any problems or wished he was circumcised. The only issue I've encountered is when our pediatrician forcibly retracted my sons foreskin at a routine check up, after assuring me she wouldn't. Be vigilant for that.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

japonica said:


> There's an excellent thread somewhere on "what's normal" that you should read because you'll also likely run into doctors over the years who are sadly very misinformed about normal physiological processes.


I would just like to elaborate on what "Japonica" stated. There is an excellent list of all the reasons that uninformed doctors are liable to come up with to justify a later circumcision and more importantly why they make no sense. It was published by the late Dr Paul Fleiss, a well known champion of keeping boys intact:

www.mothering.com/health/protect-your-uncircumcised-son-expert-medical-advice-parents .

There is also a ton of info at the cirp website, in particular: www.cirp.org/library/normal/

Finally, Kudos to you for keeping your son intact.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

OOPS - It seems that Paul Fleiss' article is no longer available on the mothering website - I'll have to try and find it elsewhere.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Protect Your Uncircumcised Son
Expert Medical Advice for Parents By Paul M. Fleiss

Increasing numbers of American parents today are protecting their sons from routine circumcision at birth, but as their boys grow up, they often find themselves at odds with doctors who cling to old-fashioned opinions and hospital routines.

I often receive calls from distraught parents who say that a doctor insists that their little boy needs to be circumcised because there is something wrong. When they bring their son into my office, I almost always find that there's nothing wrong with the child's penis. Occasionally there's a slight infection, but that can be quickly cleared up with an antibiotic cream. In all my years of practice, I've never had a patient who had to be circumcised for medical reasons.

When a doctor advises that your son be circumcised, it's usually because he or she is unfamiliar with the intact penis, misinformed about the true indications for surgical amputation of the foreskin, unaware of the functions of the foreskin, and uncomfortable with the movement away from routine circumcision.

Doctors can be psychologically challenged by the sight of an intact boy. They may see problems with the penis that do not really exist. They may try to convince you that the natural penis is somehow difficult to care for. They may cite "studies" and "statistics" that appear to support circumcision.

Probably, the only problem you will encounter with the foreskin of your intact boy is that someone will think that he has a problem. The foreskin is a perfectly normal part of the human body, and it has very definite purposes, as do all body parts, even if we do not readily recognize them. There's no need to worry about your son's intact penis.

What to Say When the Doctor Says to Cut
Below is a list of some of the things that doctors have said to parents in an attempt to convince them to agree to circumcision. After each incorrect statement, I've given the medical facts to help you understand what your doctor may not know about the intact penis and its care, and what you need to know to protect your child from unnecessary penile surgery. If you ever find yourself in a situation where a doctor suggests that your child should be circumcised, the best thing that you can say is simply: "Leave it alone."

-Your son's foreskin should be cut off in order to facilitate hygiene.

My experience as a pediatrician has convinced me that circumcision makes the penis dirtier, a fact that was confirmed by a study recently published in the British Journal of Urology.1 For at least a week after circumcision, the baby is left with a large open wound that is in almost constant contact with urine and feces--hardly a hygienic advantage. Additionally, throughout life the circumcised penis is open and exposed to dirt and contaminants of all kinds. The wrinkles and folds that often form around the circumcision scar frequently harbor dirt and germs.

Thanks to the foreskin, the intact penis is protected from dirt and contamination. While this important protective function is extremely useful while the baby is in diapers, the foreskin provides protection to the glans and urinary opening for a lifetime. At all ages, the foreskin keeps the glans safe, soft, and clean.

Throughout childhood, there is no need to wash underneath the foreskin. Mothers used to be advised to retract the foreskin and wash beneath it every day. This was very bad advice indeed. When the foreskin becomes fully retractable, usually by the end of puberty, your son can retract it and rinse his glans with warm water while he is in the shower.

-Your son's foreskin is too tight. It doesn't retract. He needs to be circumcised.

The tightness of the foreskin is a safety mechanism that protects the glans and urethra from direct exposure to contaminants and germs. The tight foreskin also keeps the boy's glans warm, clean, and moist, and when he is an adult, it will give him pleasure. As long as your son can urinate, he is perfectly normal. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be retractable. Do not let your doctor or anyone try to retract your child's foreskin. Optimal hygiene of the penis demands that the foreskin of infants and children be left alone. Premature retraction rips the skin of the penis open and causes your child extreme pain. There is no legitimate medical justification for retraction. The child's discomfort is proof of that.

-Your son's foreskin is "adhered" to the glans. It must be amputated.

The attachment of the foreskin and glans is nature's way of protecting the undeveloped glans from premature exposure. Detachment is a normal physiological process that can take up to two decades to complete. By the end of puberty, the foreskin will have detached from the glans because hormones that are produced in great quantities at puberty help with the process. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be fully separated from the glans.

Some misguided doctors might suggest that the "adhesions" between the foreskin and glans should be broken so that your son can retract his foreskin. This procedure is called synechotomy. To perform it, the doctor pushes a blunt metal probe under the foreskin and forcibly rips it from the glans. It's as painful and traumatic as having a metal probe stuck under your fingernail to pull if off. It will also cause bleeding and may result in infection and scarring of the inner lining of the foreskin and the glans. The wounds that are created by this forced separation can fuse together, causing true adhesions. There is no medical justification for this procedure because the foreskin is not supposed to be separated from the glans in childhood. If any doctor suggests this procedure for your son, firmly refuse, stating, "Leave it alone!"

-Your son's foreskin is getting tighter. It no longer retracts. Something is wrong. He will have to be circumcised.

Sometimes, in childhood, a previously retractable foreskin will become resistant to retraction for reasons that are unrelated to impending puberty. In these cases, the opening of the foreskin may look chapped and sting when your son urinates. This is not an indication for surgery any more than chapped lips. This is just the foreskin doing its job. If the foreskin were not there, the glans and urinary opening would be chapped instead. Chapping is most often caused by ov erly chlorinated swimming pools, harsh soap, bubble baths, or a diet that is too high in sugar, all of which destroy the natural balance of skin bacteria and should be avoided if chapping occurs. The foreskin becomes resistant to retraction until a natural and healthy bacterial balance is reestablished.

You can aid healing by having your son apply a little barrier cream or some ointment to the opening of the foreskin. Acidophilus culture (which can be purchased from a health food store) can be taken internally and also applied to the foreskin several times a day to assist healing, and should be given any time a child is taking antibiotics.

-Your son's foreskin is red, inflamed, itching, and uncomfortable. It has an infection and needs to be cut off.

Sometimes the tip of the foreskin does become reddened. During the diaper-wearing years, this is usually ammoniacal dermatitis, commonly known as diaper rash. When normal skin bacteria and feces react with urine, they produce ammonia, which burns the skin and causes inflammation and discomfort. If the foreskin were amputated, the inflammation would be on the glans itself and could enter the urethra. When the foreskin becomes reddened, it is doing its job of protecting the glans and urinary meatus.

Circumcision will have no effect on diaper rash. Change your baby's diapers more frequently and use a barrier cream until the rash clears. Harsh bath soaps can also cause inflammation of the foreskin. Use only the gentlest and purest of soap on your child's tender skin. Resist the temptation to give your child bubble baths, because these are harmful to the skin. Never use soap to wash the inner foreskin because it is mucous membrane, just like the inner lining of the eyelid.

Foreskin infections are extremely rare, but if they occur, one of the many simple treatment options is antibiotic ointment along with bacterial replacement therapy (Acidophilus culture). We don't amputate body parts because of an infection. Most infections of the foreskin are actually caused by washing the foreskin with soap. Leave the foreskin alone, remembering that it doesn't need any special washing, and infections will be unlikely to occur.

-Your son is always pulling on his foreskin. He should be circumcised.

I can assure you that, whether circumcised or not, all little boys touch and pull on their penis. It is perfectly normal. Intact boys pull on the foreskin because it is there to pull on. Circumcised boys pull on the glans because that is all they have to pull on. Little boys sometimes will adjust the position of their penis in their underpants. They will also sometimes explore the interior of the foreskin with their fingers--a perfectly normal curiosity and nothing to worry about. It is important for parents to cultivate an enlightened and tender congeniality about such matters, otherwise they risk transferring unhealthy attitudes to their children.

Sometimes a boy will pull on his foreskin because it itches. All parts of the body itch occasionally. Even a circumcised boy has to scratch his penis. Just as you don't worry every time your child scratches his knee, so you should not worry when he scratches his penis. If the itch is caused by dry skin, then have your son avoid using soap on his penis. Treat the foreskin just as you would any other part of the body.

If the real fear is of masturbation, calmly remind yourself of the simple, natural fact that all children will explore their bodies, including their genitals. Touching their genitals gives children a pleasant feeling and relaxes them. Classic anatomical studies demonstrate that the foreskin is the most pleasurably sensitive part of the penis. You can congratulate yourself for having protected your child from a surgical amputation that would have permanently denied him normal sensations.

-Your son's foreskin is too long. It should be cut off.

There is tremendous variation in foreskin length. In some boys, the foreskin represents over half the length of the penis. In others, it barely reaches the end of the glans. All variations are normal. The foreskin is never "just extra skin" or "redundant." It is all there for a reason.

-Your child should be circumcised now because it will hurt more if it has to be done later, or worse, when he is an adult.

This excuse is tragically wrong and has resulted in a very serious crisis in American medical practice. It's based on the false idea that infants and young children don't feel pain. Babies can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel. In fact, babies feel pain more acutely than adults, and the younger the baby, the more acutely the pain is felt. If an adult needed to be circumcised, he would be given anesthesia and postoperative pain relief. Doctors almost never give babies either of these. The only reason doctors get away with circumcising babies without anesthesia is because the baby is defenseless and cannot protect himself. His screams of pain, terror, and agony are ignored. In any event, this all too common excuse is merely a scare tactic, one with tragic consequences for any baby forced to endure a surgical amputation without the benefit of anesthesia.

-Since your son is having anesthesia for another operation, we'll just go ahead and circumcise him.

Most parents are never told that their son is in danger of being circumcised during a tonsillectomy or surgery for a hernia or an undescended testicle. It would never occur to them. If your child is going into the hospital for any reason, be certain that you tell the physician, surgeon, and nurse that under no circumstances is your child to be circumcised. Write "No Circumcision" on the consent form, too. Then if your child is circumcised against your wishes, remember that you do have legal recourse.

-Your son has cysts under his foreskin. He needs to be circumcised.

During the period when the foreskin is undergoing the slow process of detaching itself from the glans, sloughed skin cells (smegma) may collect into small pockets of white "pearls." These are not cysts. Some doctors mistakenly think that the smegma under the foreskin is an infection, even though it is white rather than red, is cold to the touch, and is painless. As the foreskin proceeds with detachment, the body will do its job, and these pearls will pass out of the foreskin all by themselves. These collected pockets of cells are nothing to worry about. They are simply an indication that the natural process of detachment is occurring.

-Your son has a urinary tract infection (UTI) and needs to be circumcised to prevent it from happening again.

The belief that the foreskin slightly increases the chances of a boy having a UTI is highly controversial and, more importantly, unproven. Members of the medical profession in Europe do not accept it. Medical research proves that UTIs are most often caused by internal congenital deformities of the urinary tract. 2,3,4 The foreskin has nothing to do with this. Even if it could be proven that circumcision slightly reduces the risk of UTI, it is an absurd proposal because UTIs in boys are extremely rare and are easily treated with antibiotics. Breastfeeding, too, helps prevent UTIs. Child-friendly doctors advocate breastfeeding not penile surgery.

-Your son sprays when he urinates. Circumcision will correct this.

In almost every intact boy, the urine stream flows out of the urinary opening in the glans and through the foreskin in a neat stream. During the process of penile growth and development, some boys go through a period where the urine stream is diffused. Undoubtedly, many of these boys take great delight in this phase, while mothers, understandably, find it less amusing. If your boy has entered a spraying phase, simply instruct him to retract his foreskin enough to expose the meatus when he urinates. He will soon outgrow this phase.

-Your son's foreskin balloons when he urinates. He needs to be circumcised or else he will suffer kidney damage.

Ballooning of the foreskin during urination is a normal and temporary condition in some boys. It results in no discomfort and is usually a source of great delight for little boys. Ballooning comes as a surprise only to those adults who have no experience with this phase of penile development. It certainly does not cause kidney damage; it has nothing to do with the kidneys. Ballooning disappears as the foreskin and glans separate and the opening of the foreskin increases in diameter. It requires no treatment.

-Your son caught his foreskin in the zipper of his trousers; we will have to cut it off.

There have been rare cases where a boy has accidentally caught part of the skin of his penis in the zipper of his trousers. This is painful and can cause a lot of bleeding. Cutting off the foreskin, however, is illogical in this situation. By cutting across the bottom of the zipper with scissors, the zipper can easily be opened to release the penile tissue. Any lacerations in the skin can then be closed with either sutures or surgical tape, depending on the situation. The proper standard of care in this situation is to minimize and repair the injury, not make it worse by cutting off the foreskin and creating a larger and more painful surgical wound.

-Your son has phimosis. He needs to be circumcised to correct this problem.

Phimosis is often used as a diagnosis when a doctor does not understand that the child's foreskin is supposed to be long, narrow, attached to the glans, and resistant to retraction. Some doctors are prescribing steroid creams for phimosis, but this is unnecessary in children, since the foreskin does not need to be retractable in young boys. The hormones of puberty will do the same thing at the appropriate time that a steroid cream is doing prematurely. In adults who still have a foreskin that is attached to the glans or a foreskin with such a narrow opening that the glans cannot easily pass through it, steroid creams are a conservative therapy. This is if the adult wants a foreskin that fully retracts. Many males don't, preferring a foreskin that remains securely over the glans. It is purely a matter of personal choice, one that only each male can decide for himself.

-Your son has paraphimosis and must be circumcised to prevent it from happening again.

Paraphimosis is a rare dislocation of the foreskin. It is caused by the foreskin being prematurely retracted and becoming stuck behind the glans. The dislocation can most often be corrected by applying firm but gentle pressure on the glans with the thumbs, as if you were pushing a cork into a bottle. To reduce the swelling, an injection of hyaluronidase may be effective. Doctors in Britain have also reported good results from packing the penis in granulated sugar.5 Ice packs work well, too.

-Your son has BXO and will have to be circumcised.

Some doctors equate phimosis with an extremely rare skin disorder called balanitis xerotica obliterans (BXO), which is also called lichen sclerosus et atrophicus (LSA). BXO can appear anywhere on the body, but if this disorder affects the foreskin, it may turn the opening of the foreskin hard, white, sclerotic, and make retraction almost impossible. BXO is usually painless and progresses very slowly. Many times, it goes away by itself. To an experienced dermatologist, there is no mistaking BXO, but a diagnosis must be confirmed by a biopsy. The good news is that BXO can almost always be successfully cured with steroid creams, carbon dioxide laser treatment, or even antibiotics. Circumcision should be considered only after every other treatment option has failed. Just as we do not amputate the labia of females with BXO or the glans of circumcised boys with BXO, it is logical that we should not amputate the foreskin of intact boys with BXO.

-Your son needs to be circumcised or else he won't enjoy oral sex as an adult.

I'm afraid that doctors really have said such inappropriate things to parents. Such a statement is evidence of ignorance of the normal functions and sensations of the intact penis. Classic anatomical investigations have proven that the foreskin is the most richly innervated part of the penis. It has specialized nerve receptors that are directly connected to the pleasure centers of the brain. Your intact son is far better equipped to enjoy all aspects of lovemaking than his circumcised peers. The myth that American women prefer the circumcised penis is, in my opinion, demeaning to women. It may be true that American women of a certain generation and social background were more likely to be familiar with the circumcised penis than the intact penis, but this was the result of the mass circumcision campaigns of the 1950s not personal preference. I suspect that what women prefer in men is more related to the personal qualities of consideration, gentleness, sensitivity, warmth, and supportiveness. It is very unlikely that circumcision increases a male's capacity to develop these qualities.

-Your son needs to be circumcised so that he looks like his father.

A child is a mixture of both his mother's and his father's genetic heritage. He doesn't need to look like his father, nor will he ever look like his father in every way. Each child is a unique gift, and that uniqueness should be cherished. The idea that a boy will be disturbed if his penis does not look like his father's was invented to manipulate people into letting doctors circumcise their children. It has no basis in medical fact.

There are no published reports of an intact boy being disturbed because part of his penis was not cut off when he realized that part of his father's penis had been cut off. When intact boys with circumcised fathers express their feelings on the matter, they consistently report their immense relief and gratitude that they were spared penile surgery. They express sadness, as well, for the suffering their dads experienced as infants.6

Occasionally, a circumcised father will state that he wants his child circumcised because he thinks that it will create a bond between him and his son. It is a wonderful thing for a father to want to establish such a bond, but circumcision cannot accomplish this worthy goal. If a father wants to establish a lasting and meaningful bond with his son, the very best way, and perhaps the only way, he can achieve this is by spending quality time with him and by showing him much affection.

Sadly, some fathers who have been circumcised have an unhealthy attitude and may look for any excuse to schedule the child for circumcision. Putting a child in a position where he fears that part of his penis is going to be cut off is abusive. When fathers demand that their sons be circumcised, I suspect that they are desperately trying to justify their own circumcised condition. The emotions that some fathers feel when they are forced to confront the fact that part of their own penis is missing can be so disturbing that they will do anything to block them out.

A father who forcibly circumcises his son will not win his son's gratitude, affection, trust, or love. I am aware of instances where such events have permanently destroyed the father-son bond and changed a son's love for his father into rage and bitter resentment. In situations where the father suffers from an unhealthy attitude about his son's normal penis, I think it is best for everyone concerned--especially the son--for the father to receive compassionate psychological counseling to help him overcome his problem. All children deserve the saf est, most nurturing, and most loving home possible.

When physicians realize the important functions of the foreskin, they'll realize that just about every problem with it can and should be solved without cutting it off. Cutting off part of the body--especially part of the penis--is an extreme measure that should be reserved for the most extreme of circumstances. The only legitimate indications for cutting off any part of the body, including the foreskin, are life-threatening disease, life-threatening deformity, or irreparable damage. These situations are extremely rare.

The best advice for the care of the intact penis is simply to leave it alone. The intact penis needs no special care. Let your boy take care of it himself, and when he's old enough, he will enjoy taking care of his own body. After all, it's his business. Just relax and avoid worrying about your son's intact penis. Remind yourself that the foreskin is a normal and natural part of the body. If European boys grow up healthy and unconcerned with their foreskins, so can your son.


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## pokeyac (Apr 1, 2011)

I would delete the texts and ignore them. You need to focus on healing and taking care of your new baby. The immediate postpartum period can be rough and people around you should only be helpful and supportive, not berating you for something that is none of their business. I agree with the other posters, this is a good time to start establishing boundaries. There are always going to be people telling you how to raise your child and you can find the way you deal with it best. Congratulations on your new baby!


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

Oh my word, OP, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. WE need support as new moms, not this! (((hugs)))

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions above. I've three intact children, two of which are boys & all three are horrified by circumcision. They've said things like, "thank you for not doing that to me," and "why do people do that?!" and "I'm sad for the children who this is done to." Did your mother allow a child of hers to be circumcised? I'm wondering if she is feeling vulnerable because you are making a different choice than her. A number of family members of mine have felt very uncomfortable w/ the choices I've made because they take them personally, like I'm choosing to do different than them just because they've done it & they feel like they might be wrong. Sad situation but not everyone is as confident in what they've chosen & they take it out on the person doing different vs. trying to figure out what's going on within themselves.

Feel free to keep posting here for support. Your child, whether boy, girl or intersex, deserves their whole body regardless of the opinions of those around them. Congratulations for protecting your child.

All the best,
Sus


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## nexxus (Feb 2, 2014)

Hey let me add a VERY IMPORTANT reason not to circumcise for the sake of your sons future. My DH is circumsised and has lost feeling in his penis. Circumcision cuts off all of the most sensitive nerve endings of the penis. Circumcision will damage his future sexual enjoyment. He started having a problem with a numb penis in his 20's. It has gotten progressively worse and he has been using a protective sheath to try and regain sensitivity in the damaged exposed skin. It works only to a small extent. We did not circumcise our 4 year old because obviously we don't want him to go through what his dad has.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm really sorry that those of you in the US have to deal with that kind of nonsense. I would however also say it's a respect issue and that it's time to draw a line in the sand. People can think whatever they like but saying things around your children shows disrespect. I would speak up now and make it known that you wont tolerate it and that if they want to see you are your children they need to keep their opinions to themselves. You can also tell them it's only done in the US and the rest of us in other countries do not circ and do not have any trouble. Our boys are not riddled with infection our men do not have numerous problems and also our birth rate is quite healthy. The foreskin gives no more trouble than any other body part.


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

Refusing to discuss this with her is a great strategy. It has been said that as adults, our only real bargaining chip is our ability to refuse to interact when it comes to parents. Apparently she has an irrational view of foreskins for some reason, so she won't let it rest.


I can also offer that we kept our two sons intact. They are no in their 20s and there was no problem whatsoever. One is married and one has a long term GF, so it didn't seem to hurt their ability to form a relationship.


I will also say that I have restored and the advantages of a foreskin are quite important in terms of sexual function and feeling, for both the man and his partner. I am one of the few to know since I have experienced both. And my wife went from thinking that circumcision is just something you do, to being horrified that anyone would do that to a child.


Hang in there!


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## Viola P (Sep 14, 2013)

I remember when i was a ftm people always were giving me sh-t and everyone had an opinion. By the second they know to keep their mouths shut. 

There might also be a generational issue here. People who raised kids in the 80's, things were just different back then. For example, my friend's mom was obsessed with giving her daughter teaspoons of water. Apparently that's what they hammered into them in the 80's. Anyway, things change except that the memories of being a mother are frozen in time and the grandparents always think the way things were back in the 80's (or whenever) is BEST because that's how they did it and look how alive and well their children are. They don't understand that things change. I've even heard of posters up in medical places that say "things have changed since you had a baby", i guess to remind people of this. Anyway, I agree with she who said that you need to be direct with your mom and put her "in her place" a bit (sorry i know it sounds crude). She'll probably have a tough time adjusting to her secondary/background role as grandma so good to start now. 

Also, fwiw, my second love was intact and it bothered me exactly 0%.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

bren94 said:


> She sends me a bombardment of texts every morning about how as a female I don't have the right to make this decision for him.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Um, she's female, too, and not even his mother, so it's DEFINITELY not her decision to make! Stop responding to her texts. I agree.........broken record...........it's not up for discussion, and she won't have "grandma" privileges anymore if she keeps talking about it.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

bren94 said:


> She says things like "women won't want to sleep with him" and "he'll give his future partners hpv".


Oh my god. Your mom is crazy and weirdly concerned with your new baby's sex life.

My Dh isn't circumcised. He is an immigrant from a country that doesn't routinely circumcise, and he hasn't given me any STDs in 20 years of sleeping together. When we first got together, he asked me about circumcised penises and what it is that they cut off because he couldn't imagine any part of his not being there.

I think it is time to draw a very firm boundary with mom. She is way, way, way out of line. She needs to never ever mention your son's penis. If she is too crazy/self absorbed/ whatever to handle that, then block her number for awhile or change yours. Honestly. She's crazy and completely out of line. And weird.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

nexxus said:


> Hey let me add a VERY IMPORTANT reason not to circumcise for the sake of your sons future. My DH is circumsised and has lost feeling in his penis. Circumcision cuts off all of the most sensitive nerve endings of the penis. Circumcision will damage his future sexual enjoyment. He started having a problem with a numb penis in his 20's. [/QUOTE)
> 
> THIS is something no one talks about. I have read that on average a circumcised man's sex life will come to a premature end a good ten years before an intact man's. Erections become more elusive and because of all the nerve damage and amputation ejaculation becomes more difficult to achieve, if not impossible. I won't use the word "orgasm" because I don't believe a circumcised man is capable of experiencing a full body orgasm in the same manner that intact men and women are. In other words circumcision compromises his (and his wife/partner's) sex life for ever. That's pretty darn sad !!


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## pokeyac (Apr 1, 2011)

Let's refrain from attacking the OP's mother please. We may disagree with her but we don't allow name-calling even if the person is not a member.
Thank you,
Pokey
Moderator


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## pennywhistle (Dec 21, 2011)

re: dealing with your mom, I would go one of two routes, depending on which you think would work better.

1) serious route: As others have said, prepare a short, declarative statement like "Mom, I'm not discussing this anymore with you." Then repeat it, word-for-word, in the exact same tone, every single time she brings it up. Be as much of a broken record as you can. "Mom, I'm not discussing this anymore with you." Repeat ad nauseum.

2) joking/lighthearted route: Every time she mentions anything relating to circumcision, just respond with something like "I'm sorry, are you seriously talking about my kid's penis again?" and "Mom, you sound a *little* too obsessed with my kid's penis." and "Okay, got it, you have a lot invested in my kid's penis - but can't we talk about something else now?" and "Wait a minute, my son is having sex already?!" Just keep reminding her how TOTALLY RIDICULOUS it is for her to bring up your son's genitalia, over and over.

Regardless of which route you choose, I think it's most important to avoid debating the subject with her whatsoever, even to back up your decision. No explanations of your choice, no citing reports, no talking about other people's experiences, nothing. Because that just makes her think that this is actually a reasonable conversation topic. And it's not. So just keep shutting it down, over and over. It's tiring, and it sucks, but eventually she'll get it.

And congratulations on your son, and new motherhood!


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

bren94 said:


> I'm a new mom, my baby is one week old. My husband and I made the decision not to circumcise as soon as we learned we were having a boy. I've never doubted this decision my entire pregnancy and have always shrugged off disapproving comments from family members. But right now, being the hormonal mess I am, I'm finding it difficult to combat their negativity. Most have laid off and are choosing to respect my decision, but my mother is relentless. As a nurse, she has admitted to me that it's a cosmetic procedure and STILL won't lay off! She sends me a bombardment of texts every morning about how as a female I don't have the right to make this decision for him. She says things like "women won't want to sleep with him" and "he'll give his future partners hpv". She thinks I'm doing this because I'm too young to know better and that this is a sign I wasn't ready for motherhood. I'm not going to change my mind, but it's getting hard to deal with and I need reassurance that this is right for my son. It's hard to have your parenting questioned, especially this early into motherhood. She has me questioning if I'm doing right by my child.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't read any of the replies yet, but I wanted to say GOOD ON YOU, MAMA! :grin: He is fine. He will be fine. Mine is now 14 and I was told by the anti-circ doc, who had 3 intact boys himself, that released us from the hospital, that my boy would need to be circ'd because his pee hole didn't match up with the foreskin hole, and that he would have problems with sex later because of retraction issues, or something. I have forgotten. 
He also told me that I could keep an eye on it, and if my b y needed it, he could get circ'd in the doctor's office at about 3yo if needed. He never needed, and is just fine now, fwiw. 
He started fooling with his ownself around 8 months old and was fully retractable by age 3 or so. Has not had any issues at all. 
Tell your mom you love her, but to go take a hike and keep out of it. She did her time parenting with you and whatever siblings you have. Now it's your turn. Hang in there!


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## elizabethtilley (Feb 16, 2009)

*Ignore criticism*

My son was not circumcised in 1980, when this decision was a bit unusual. He is married now, and his intact self has not caused any problems. His wife is Jewish and it's ok with her too apparently.

You can tell your critics that a boy can decide to be circumcised later if he so desires. The argument that you don't have the "right" to do something so terrible as to NOT circumcise him is exactly backwards. You don't have the right to do something irreversible to him, in fact, like cut off part of his body. He can do that to himself later if he wants to, or if his non-circumcision is a problem for him. I don't know anybody who has done this, but there could be.

In 1980, babies were circumcised with no anaesthesia. I don't know how it is now, but it seems extraordinarily cruel to me to inflict this sort of pain on a baby without his consent, and for no good medical reason. When your son is old enough, you can teach him how to retract his foreskin and clean it when he takes a shower or bath. That is enough to keep him healthy. Why would human males have foreskins, if they weren't there for a reason? Evolution evidently created the foreskin; who are we to argue with it?

There is some evidence that men with foreskins have a much more sensitive glans that circumcised men and thus they enjoy sex more. Also it is so sensitive that they can't put it in the vagina unless it is well lubricated. So they have to pay attention to their partner as well. This makes for good adult relationships.


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## elizabethtilley (Feb 16, 2009)

-Your son's foreskin balloons when he urinates. He needs to be circumcised or else he will suffer kidney damage.

Ballooning of the foreskin during urination is a normal and temporary condition in some boys. It results in no discomfort and is usually a source of great delight for little boys. Ballooning comes as a surprise only to those adults who have no experience with this phase of penile development. It certainly does not cause kidney damage; it has nothing to do with the kidneys. Ballooning disappears as the foreskin and glans separate and the opening of the foreskin increases in diameter. It requires no treatment.


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## elizabethtilley (Feb 16, 2009)

elizabethtilley said:


> -Your son's foreskin balloons when he urinates. He needs to be circumcised or else he will suffer kidney damage.
> 
> Ballooning of the foreskin during urination is a normal and temporary condition in some boys. It results in no discomfort and is usually a source of great delight for little boys. Ballooning comes as a surprise only to those adults who have no experience with this phase of penile development. It certainly does not cause kidney damage; it has nothing to do with the kidneys. Ballooning disappears as the foreskin and glans separate and the opening of the foreskin increases in diameter. It requires no treatment.


My son loved this ballooning effect. He would hold his foreskin at the tip, fill it with urine, and then release it into the potty and laugh like crazy.


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## MamaramaTV (Apr 28, 2011)

*Boundary Issue*

Most people responding have focused on the "well it's better to circumcise" or "it's better to NOT circumcise" when really this is an issue of boundaries between your mom and you, as a new mother. As at least one commenter pointed out, this is a good time to practice saying to your mom, "Thank you for your input and advice - but I'm going to have to respectfully ask you to let this one go and not bring it up again." Folks can argue till they are blue in the face about Pros or Cons on this topic; maybe as a medical professional your mom can respect the APP saying "It's a parental choice - there are not sufficient benefits or risks to warrant advising for or against circumcision." You're a new mom, you're going to do things the way YOU see fit and what you believe is best. That may not always line-up with your moms ideas....welcome to being a parent.


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## ml66uk (Mar 2, 2012)

*you're doing the right thing*

The USA (at 55% and dropping) and Israel are the only two countries in the world where more than half of baby boys are circumcised. Other countries circumcise, but not till anywhere from the age of seven to adolescence. Only 10% of circumcised men were circumcised as babies.

Drops in male circumcision since 1950:
USA: from 90% to 55%
Canada: from 48% to 32%
UK: from 35% to about 5% (about 1-2% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.4% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%

It's worth remembering that no-one except for Muslim and Jewish people would even be having this discussion if it weren't for the fact that 19th century doctors thought that :
a) masturbation caused various physical and mental problems (including epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, tuberculosis etc), and
b) circumcision stopped masturbation.

Both of those sound ridiculous today I know, but that's how they thought back then, and that's how non-religious circumcision got started. If you don't believe me, then check out this link: http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm
Heck, they even passed laws against "self-pollution" as it was called.

Over a hundred years later, circumcised men keep looking for new ways to defend the practice.


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## ml66uk (Mar 2, 2012)

*advice from some national medical organizations*

This is what some national medical organizations outside the US say:

Canadian Paediatric Society
http://www.cps.ca/en/documents/position/circumcision 
"Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed."

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/handouts/circumcision 
"Circumcision is a 'non-therapeutic' procedure, which means it is not medically necessary."
"After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions."

Royal Australasian College of Physicians
http://www.racp.edu.au/index.cfm?objectid=65118B16-F145-8B74-236C86100E4E3E8E 
"After reviewing the currently available evidence, the RACP believes that the frequency of diseases modifiable by circumcision, the level of protection offered by circumcision and the complication rates of circumcision do not warrant routine infant circumcision in Australia and New Zealand."
(almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves, as the male circumcision rate in Australia in 1950 was about 90%. "Routine" circumcision is now *banned* in public hospitals in Australia all states except one.)

British Medical Association
http://bma.org.uk/-/media/Files/PDFs/Practical advice at work/Ethics/Circumcision.pdf
"to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate."

The Royal Dutch Medical Association
http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/k...rapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm 
"The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children's rights to autonomy and physical integrity."

http://www.crin.org/resources/infodetail.asp?id=31830
"[30 September 2013] - At a meeting today in Oslo, the children's ombudspersons from the five Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland), and the children's spokesperson from Greenland, in addition to representatives of associations of Nordic paediatricians and pediatric surgeons, have agreed to work with their respective national governments to achieve a ban on non-therapeutic circumcision of underage boys."

German Pediatric Association
http://www.intactamerica.org/german_pediatrics_statement
(very long, but very much against circumcision, and includes the following)
"Therefore it is not understandable that circumcision of boys should be allowed but that of girls prohibited worldwide. Male circumcision is basically comparable with FGM types Ia and Ib that the Schafi Islamic school of law supports"

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.abstract
"The other claimed health benefits, including protection against HIV/AIDS, genital herpes, genital warts, and penile cancer, are questionable, weak, and likely to have little public health relevance in a Western context, and they do not represent compelling reasons for surgery before boys are old enough to decide for themselves."
(written in direct response to the AAP's position statement, and signed by 38 senior physicians, about half of them presidents or chairs of national paediatric or urological organisations).


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## Lovesmila (Jun 14, 2011)

What?! That is just crazy to me. I live in New Zealand and nobody circumcises here. No family, friends, doctors, hospital staff, midwives etc ever mentioned it: It is assumed we keep our sons whole, just as we keep our daughters whole. 
As far as it not being your choice to make, I agree with previous commenters: no, it's not your choice. It's his body and his choice. If he wants to be circumcised later on, he can do that. But if you circumcise him now and he decides later he wanted to be intact, he can't UNDO that. Leaving him intact leaves the choice in HIS hands.

I recommend checking out Save Our Sons, Intact America and all the other Intactivist pages on facebook - lots of moral support and fact sheets you can send to people who might question you.


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## mediocrewitch (May 22, 2011)

Congratulations on your son and your decision- and sorry about your troubles with your mom. 

In addition to all the other excellent advice you've gotten here, I'd like to add that my grown stepson thanked his dad for not having him "mutilated" (his words) and that made me feel even better about our decision to leave our son (his little brother) intact.

Not that I had any doubts, but in our small town, we're probably the only people who didn't circumcise...for real! No one said anything to me directly, but my sister works for the same company I do, and I heard from a coworker that she was telling people at work about it and they were all appalled and sharing horror stories of what they thought would happen to him and how awful I was to do that! It really sucked! So hang in there, follow all the great advice here- and come here for any future questions- the health forums are great! When my baby got an inflamed foreskin- I realized there was not a soul in my life who I could ask for advice (and I didn't dare mention it, as they'd all seize on it as evidence that they were right!!!) but I could always search the forums here and find help. Good luck!:smile:


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## CoRidgieMama (Apr 28, 2014)

bren94 said:


> Thank you both! @philomom it's especially helpful for me to hear that intact adults are happy with their parents decision and don't have any problems.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is none of her business. And, yes, this is a decision a mother SHOULD make. In my opinion, to circumcise is NOT a decision a mother should make. It is HIS decision whether or not he want to cut parts off his body, not yours. He can always go get circumcised, but he cannot get uncircumcised.

P.S. My partner is uncut, and I LOVE it! So, poo-poo on women hating him for that.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Viola P said:


> I remember when i was a ftm people always were giving me sh-t and everyone had an opinion. By the second they know to keep their mouths shut.
> Also, fwiw, my second love was intact and it bothered me exactly 0%.


I see that you live in Canada, and I am a bit surprised that you were given such a hard time about keeping your son intact. Where are you? Both my kids were born in the '80s and we did not have one single comment about keeping DS intact. In fact, of our friends who were having children at the same time, at least half did not circumcise. The first was in Manitoba, the second in Alberta. Neither did the doctors comment. Mind you, I did not give them much opportunity because I made it really clear at the very first appointment that if the baby was a boy, he would be keeping ALL his bits !!


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## CorinneVT (Feb 2, 2014)

We decided not to have our son c'd...It wasn't much of a decision....I think it is barbaric, though my husband was more neutral. 

But a point that I wanted to mention is that we're 30 and many of our guy friends are actually angry at their parents for making the decision to take their foreskins!

So I guess you could say WE"RE PRO CHOICE in more ways then one. We'll let our boy make his own decision. 

I can't imagine cutting off part of our precious child's body.


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## jerrynorton (Sep 8, 2010)

Circumcision zombies. You still find them in many families. They look like normal caregivers until a new baby comes along, then they can't rest until they bloody his penis.

Be strong. The reason social change is so slow is social change often waits on people with the old ideas (who can't update them) to die off.

The gatekeepers are the perps. It's a social disease.


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## LisaMarie0712 (Mar 15, 2014)

*Hands down*

You GAVE your son a CHOICE. You DID NOT TAKE IT AWAY.

Plain and simple. That is all.


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## jerrynorton (Sep 8, 2010)

Honestly, the way your mom was talking when the thread started, I wouldn't want her around my kid alone until he was old enough to be retracting on his own. School age or later.


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

jerrynorton said:


> Honestly, the way your mom was talking when the thread started, I wouldn't want her around my kid alone until he was old enough to be retracting on his own. School age or later.


She knows how to care for an intact penis. My brothers were premature and left intact until they were 4 months old.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

Thanks for all the great info and support everyone! She's coming into town next week and has dropped the situation for the most part. She's dying to spend time with him so she knows not to piss me off right now lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jerrynorton (Sep 8, 2010)

bren94 said:


> She knows how to care for an intact penis. My brothers were premature and left intact until they were 4 months old.


Not a good record at all Bren. I'm sorry.


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## ml66uk (Mar 2, 2012)

bren94 said:


> She knows how to care for an intact penis. My brothers were premature and left intact until they were 4 months old.


That doesn't necessarily mean she knows about intact penises, and a surprising number of medical professionals give wrong advice too.

AAP - "Care for an Uncircumcised Penis"
http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...re/Pages/Care-for-an-Uncircumcised-Penis.aspx
_"foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until the foreskin fully separates, do not try to pull it back. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready can cause severe pain, bleeding, and tears in the skin."_

Canadian Paediatric Society
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/handouts/skin_care_for_your_baby 
_"Keep your baby's penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it."_

Canadian Urological Association
http://www.uroinfo.ca/brochures_pediatric/foreskinCare.html

_"Care of the normal foreskin

The uncircumcised penis requires no special care. It can be kept clean with a gentle soap and warm water wash daily. No attempt should be made to retract the foreskin until it can be pulled back with ease. Then, your son should be taught to pull his foreskin back gently to clean its inner surface and the glans with soap and water.

It should be thoroughly rinsed with water before being dried with a towel. The foreskin must always be brought back to its usual position covering the glans after washing.

It is important not to retract the foreskin forcefully for any reason. Some parents feel the need to pull the foreskin back to "clean under it". Since the young boy's inner foreskin and the glans are initially fused, there is no space to clean.

Forceful retraction also may lead to cracking and bleeding of the foreskin tip. Over time, this may cause scarring of the tip making retraction impossible. Circumcision may then be necessary."_

RACP policy statement on male circumcision
http://www.racp.edu.au/index.cfm?objectid=65118B16-F145-8B74-236C86100E4E3E8E 
_"The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis."_

Both the AAP and CPS suggest that early retraction is a lot more common than seems to be the case. A Danish study (Øster) found that only 23% of boys could retract by the age of 6-7, and an average age of ten.

For what it's worth, I was about ten before I could retract, and my son was about the same age.


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

ml66uk said:


> That doesn't necessarily mean she knows about intact penises, and a surprising number of medical professionals give wrong advice too.
> 
> AAP - "Care for an Uncircumcised Penis"
> http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...re/Pages/Care-for-an-Uncircumcised-Penis.aspx
> ...


Yes I also know how to care for my sons penis, but thank you. My mother knows not to retract the foreskin we've had this discussion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pokeyac (Apr 1, 2011)

I'm going to remind you all again to stay on topic and avoid insulting language. The OP came here looking for support and ways to respond to criticism. Criticizing her mother or anyone else is not ok. @bren94 It sounds like things are going well with your mother. I hope all continues to go well. You've done a great job!


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## bren94 (May 16, 2014)

@pokeyac thank you so much


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

CorinneVT said:


> We decided not to have our son c'd...It wasn't much of a decision....I think it is barbaric, though my husband was more neutral.
> 
> But a point that I wanted to mention is that we're 30 and many of our guy friends are actually angry at their parents for making the decision to take their foreskins!
> 
> ...


Good point !! I wish more men who are unhappy about being deprived of their foreskins would speak up and voice their displeasure and anger. Until they do, many in the medical fraternity will continue reaping the profit$ and promoting this barbaric custom, while maintaining an attitude of denial that they are inflicting any harm. The fact that each and everyone of those doctors who perform circumcisions are violating the hippocratic oath every time they do one, and yet refuse to see the hypocrisy, just blows me away.


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## jerrynorton (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm very displeased about being cut. It causes me daily discomfort, even though I've been restoring for over ten years. It will never look or function completely normally. It will never be the penis I was born with.

There are many different ways cultures shut their men up. Honestly, I think some people are just bent on destruction. There's no other reasonable explanation for how long circ has been happening and how severely some men are injured. Read this article.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-08-16-00-the-boys-who-lost-their-manhood

It's a matter of degree if you ask me. Penises aren't (usually) falling off here, but the culture of shaming is similar. We're supposed to accept, keep quiet and "take it like a man" even though we were less than a day old. It's a social sickness.

As with Female Genital Cutting, the motivation and (twisted) reasoning are eerily alike.


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## mrsvintage (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi mama! Sounds like things are going better. 

I wanted to add my favorite reply that I frequently used when we faces criticism from friends or family - "We think God made him perfectly" or "We think he was born perfect, I wouldn't change a thing!"

It was surprisingly effective and remained positive - good luck and enjoy that sweet baby!


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## Tinijocaro (Jan 4, 2003)

Refuse to discuss. Meanwhile, rest assured that you've made a sound decision for your son. I questioned myself a bit too when my older son was born but felt confident by the time my second came along. They are now 15 and 19. 6'2" and 6'3". No problems with the girls or the locker rooms!


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