# My theory about parents



## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

I have a theory based on stories from my own parents childhoods and my in-law's childhood that as a general rule, all parents try to raise their children better than they were raised.

I know that, even though we were still spanked, yelled at, shamed, and lost privileges, our childhoods were much better than what our parents grew up knowing.

Any thoughts?









~Nay


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I know for sure that my mom did everything she knew to raise us better than she'd been raised. We were spanked very occasionally, yelled at (mostly because of her PMS, which nobody knew anything about and her migraines) sometimes and did have privileges revoked sometimes...mostly grounding, which I've also done with ds1, honestly. But, we were _not_ raised in a home full of conditional love, shame, guilt and enforced "modesty" (ie. not being allowed to be proud of our accomplishments). My mom was.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

I think people who give parenting some "metathought" - i.e. that actually consider whether they have a stance on parenting - probably strive to improve.

However there are people who just don't think that way, and parent the way it comes naturally to them, which is probably the patterns they themselves grew up with. My dad is one of these types. If you asked him why he spanks he'd tell you because he was spanked. It's never occurred to him to think outside the box.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
However there are people who just don't think that way, and parent the way it comes naturally to them, which is probably the patterns they themselves grew up with. My dad is one of these types. If you asked him why he spanks he'd tell you because he was spanked. It's never occurred to him to think outside the box.

i think most of the parents i know are like this. there is a little boy in my son's school who's mom is a real wreak and he lives with grandma. grandma is raising him just like her. spanking and shaming. any thought there about why mom might be a wreak? nope. he's a sweet kid to and every time she shakes, shames, yells or smacks him i want to ask her if she wants him to grow up to be just like his crack smoking mom.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
I have a theory based on stories from my own parents childhoods and my in-law's childhood that as a general rule, all parents try to raise their children better than they were raised.

I know that, even though we were still spanked, yelled at, shamed, and lost privileges, our childhoods were much better than what our parents grew up knowing.

Any thoughts?









~Nay

I agree but like the previous posters I do think it is a good idea to change "all parents" to just parents.
Because unfortunately there is a distinct minority out that that just dont care.
But YES I agree, that one the whole, it is the goal of most well meaning parents to raise their children better than they were raised.
I think that often there is some deficiency most children see in their parents (even the best of them) that we do try to remedy with our own children.


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## coloradomonkeymom (Jan 21, 2006)

I think I agree.
I know my mom thought she did better but I was spanked, hit, shamed, etc probably as much as she was so in the end I don't think she fulfilled her goal.

I am trying to be so very aware of my shortcomings and I am willing to go to counseling if I ever feel I am repeating the pattern of abuse that seems so prevelant in my family's generations.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
I agree but like the previous posters I do think it is a good idea to change "all parents" to just parents.

That's why I put "as a general rule"









~Nay


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
If you asked him why he spanks he'd tell you because he was spanked.

Yes, but did he spank you with the same frequency and intensity as he was spanked? When my parents were kids, they were spanked until there were visible marks. When my parents spanked me and my sisters there was never a single time when our bottoms even turned pinkish. Big difference. My theory is that the parents treat their kids better--not perfect. Some people can only make small steps of progress. Others have the strength to take larger steps. Regardless, it's a move in the right direction, towards treating children like complete people, whole in every way, and in no way inferior to an adult.









~Nay


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*
Yes, but did he spank you with the same frequency and intensity as he was spanked? When my parents were kids, they were spanked until there were visible marks. When my parents spanked me and my sisters there was never a single time when our bottoms even turned pinkish. Big difference. Even though they still spanked, it was still a small step in the right direction, towards treating children like complete people, whole in every way, and in no way inferior to an adult.









~Nay

YOu make such a wonderful and forgiving post.
SOme steps are baby steps, but they ought to be recognized nonetheless.
My father was whipped with a switch he had to cut from a tree himself.
The one or two slaps each of us got in our entire childhood were not of nearly the same magnitude of the treatment my father had lived with.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

There are probably some who don't care, but I think the majority just don't know any better. Their intuition is probably so screwed up they don't even realize there is a better way. Some educate themselves and find the better way (like MDC mommies) but others don't. When you consider the high percentage of functionally illiterate and aliterate in this country, this is hardly surprising. They just listen to friends and family members, rather than listening to their heart and learning more.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Parenting is like getting a hand me down quilt. The best folks will pick out the tired old worn places and replace them with good stuff and have a perfectly wonderful quilt again. From my childhood, I kept the picnics, the time spent outdoors and the love of reading. I "picked out" the name calling, the harsh spanking, a few other unpleasant aspects of my own childhood. Hopefully, my kids will do even better with their quilt when its their turn.


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## DoubleOven (Jan 7, 2006)

:


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I don't quite fit your theory. While there are some things that I am doing differently (yes, because I think they are preferable) I am largely parenting the way I was raised. I can honestly say that I do not parent with the goal or hope of parenting better than my parents.

I'm also rather pessimistic about our kid's childhoods being much better than generations before. Sorry to be such a downer but I think commercialism, fear, culture and etc. are working negatively for us to the extent that, even if we do try harder, it's an uphill battle. Urgh...sorry.


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## Lizzo (Jul 26, 2005)

My DP and I were disscussing this last night!!!! And we agree. For the most part. His parents tried to raise him and his sisters like their parents did, but ended up being worse in most ways. BUT DP is raising/ plans to raise our kiddos better than his.
My parents tried to raise my sister and I differently and did. We were still made fun of, humiliated, and spanked (very rarely. Our parents (mine) also thought that discipline=punishment so we got no discipline. However, my mom and her 5 other siblings were raped, beaten, moletsed, and other horrid things. My father was also treated badly about grades and a lot of pressure was put on him.
Our goal is to raise our children better. I believe that is every parent's goal.
My children will probably try to raise their kids better than we did.
I also believe we create in some ways what better is. I think what I am doing is wonderfull and works for us, however when my children have children is what I did going to be what's wonderfull and works for them? Probably not everything.
I think that is the whole point of parenting, for me anyway: to raise independent individuals who think for themselves. I don't see my son as Mine or a mini version of me or DP, he is his own person who needs his papa and I, but eventually will not and then we become friends and support people. We as parents take on different as our children evolve and grow and tka eon their own new, unique role.
Anywho...I'm going off on a tangent


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
I don't quite fit your theory. While there are some things that I am doing differently (yes, because I think they are preferable) I am largely parenting the way I was raised.









: me too...and that's the beauty of GD! I was raised GD and think my parents did a great job of preparing me for "the real world" without crushing my spirit or making me feel like I wasn't a valuable member of the family. So, like ICM, while I'm not doing things *exactly* like my parents did, I don't think I need to do better, cause I think they did just fine









DH, on the other hand, makes comments to me sometimes at night after DS is asleep about things like how he's trying to be "nicer" to DS than his parents were to him, about how he's realized how uptight his parents were, etc. They were pretty standard mainstream, yelling, shaming, spanking, etc. etc. Sometimes the comments make me sad for him that he was raised the way he was, but at the same time SO full of love and joy that he's trying to break the cycle with his own children...

Then, I also agree with a PP who said that some peple don't think about it much and just do what they lived.....and most often I think it's because they don't know there's another, gentler option...I have to believe (and this could be the cockeyed optimist in me







) that if most people who aren't parenting gently were told there's a way to have "good" kids without the spanking, yelling, etc. that they would want do it - then again, I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to put in the extra effort up front (and I think GD is a LOT more effort in the early years, but pays off in the later years) and they'd just keep doing what they're doing anyway.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin*

I know that, even though we were still spanked, yelled at, shamed, and lost privileges, our childhoods were much better than what our parents grew up knowing.

I don't find this to be true in my family. My parents didn't have bad childhoods at all. They were raised in very loving families. And they raised me very lovingly. I'm sure that many, many of our paremts had wonderful childhoods.

Namaste!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

There are also cases where the parents are _worse_ than their parents were. I can think of at least one person I know who has spanked/hit and yelled at her children more than she was ever spanked or yelled at. She also ignores them a lot of the time, and doesn't do anything with them. Her parents spanked some and yelled a bit...but also took her out to parks and such.

My ex was also like this. I think it happens when people have children than they didn't want, or wanted for really selfish reasons (ie. to keep the boyfriend), and it makes me sad.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Oh, I agree, my mom tried to do better than she had as a child but she justified beatings (hers) and I rejected physical punishment.

She agrees with me now but had the other opinion then.

DH was abused and has had to work hard to break the cycle of abuse (as have his siblings.)

I do believe that when people put thought into parenting they strive to do better than what was done to them.

Debra Baker


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *donosmommy04*
I don't think I need to do better, cause I think they did just fine



















I think this is a very powerful statement. The power is in the phrase "just fine", which I think is really significant.

I think there is a point where parents are parenting well and that is enough...or as much as can be done.

Enough is as good as a feast.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

My parents did a darn good job as well. Do I do everything the same way they did, nope, but that's no reflection on how I feel about how I was parented.

My dad was a yeller and a big spanker. I have never thought one negative thing about the way I was parented. I see a lot of people very resentful of the fact that they were spanked and I'm always curious what's the difference between us. Why doesn't it bother me and it does them? Anyway, that's a whole different discussion.

Now, as my mom gets into her late 70's she's getting to be an old bitty with us and I swear I'm not going there!!!







(its a constant joke between us)


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

You sound like me - I was spanked as a child and it didn't leave any lasting effects at all. I think I deserved them (if there is such a thing). My mom had 4 kids, 4 years and under, and I think she did a darn good job!


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom*
Parenting is like getting a hand me down quilt. The best folks will pick out the tired old worn places and replace them with good stuff and have a perfectly wonderful quilt again. From my childhood, I kept the picnics, the time spent outdoors and the love of reading. I "picked out" the name calling, the harsh spanking, a few other unpleasant aspects of my own childhood. Hopefully, my kids will do even better with their quilt when its their turn.

What a great post.


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## plantmama (Jun 24, 2005)

So I was spanked too and don't feel a bit upset about it towards my parents now. Ofcourse I didn't like it much at the time. They did a good job and included my sister and I in lots of decision making and really had no "rules". We were just expected to behave well and respect others, etc...
However, my mom really tried to do a better job with us than her mom did with her. She felt a lot of pressure and never was encouraged or complemented as a child/ young adult. She did do better than her mother but I hope I will do much "better" than her when my children become teens. Mom read lots of books and would quote them to us whenever we started acting like hormonal b....s (my sister and I really did act like that). It was so annoying and we never felt like we could talk to her about anything. She just made us feel dumb and overly emotional.
So, anyway, I think it's great when parents can look back like pp said take the good, leave out the bad, and patch together some sort of parenting style which improves upon their parents' example.
I am ahead of dh because I grew up with more gd parents than he did, so he has that much more to improve upon. He has a much gentler personality than I do though, so maybe we're even. Personality really counts for a lot.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I just feel a need to interject that I passionately do NOT believe that children "deserve" to be hit, for any reason whatsoever. And to have been taught to believe that one _deserved to be hit as a child_ is a significant "lasting effect", imnsho.

Pat


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
I don't find this to be true in my family. My parents didn't have bad childhoods at all. They were raised in very loving families. And they raised me very lovingly. I'm sure that many, many of our paremts had wonderful childhoods.

Namaste!

D--

I actually meant that statement only for mine and my husband's parents. Except his dad, who grew up in a pretty gentle family for the 1950s.

~Nay


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I hope you're right, Antoninbegoin. Sometimes I wonder if my children will be less repulsed by spanking since they haven't experienced it first hand, since that's one of the main motivations for me to not spank. Hopefully they'll be used to a non-violent model of family, but sometimes I wonder what will happen if they choose a partner who is less disinclined to spankings.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I can only speak for myself, natensarah, but I was raised "GD" and am repulsed by spanking...had a kid with someone who was slightly less disinclined...told him I would help DC find a lawyer if he ever hit her. This was kind of a joke because I don't think DH was ever really consdiering it (just working things out) but it also kinda wasn't a joke, iykwim.


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## erika h (Dec 22, 2005)

I agree that we're all better of for not spanking children. But sometimes I find that parents go too far the other way and out of a desire not to let any harm come to their child, they may overprotect their son or daughter and not allow them to fail at something and grow from it.

I was just with a family last month because the parents thought their child was developmentally delayed. It turned out that their 20-month old child did not walk because the parents were too afraid that he might get hurt, or picked him up whenever he cried. With a little bit of work, their child was walking within 5 days after our meeting.

I just recorded a podcast on this topic (MP3 file at http://womengrow.org/mp3-archive/GROW-007.mp3).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Sometimes I wonder if my children will be less repulsed by spanking since they haven't experienced it first hand, since that's one of the main motivations for me to not spank.

I was raised with spanking (not often), and I'm not repulsed by it at all. I've tried to avoid it with my kids mostly because I don't think it really teaches them anything. I don't think there's any way to know how an individual child will internalize what we teach them.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Honestly, I don't strive to parent better than my mom did. I hope and pray that I might someday possibly be HALF the parent my mother was. And I mean that 100%.

So for me, at least, it's not true.

(BTW, I was never spanked. At least, I have no memory of it. My mom is as GD as they come. She was an admirer of A.S. Neill, if that tells you anything. All about the "free child," and all that. On the rare occasions when she did assert her authority, I usually listened and heeded her without needing "discipline," because I trusted our mutual respect, and knew that she would not say "no" without a real reason.)

I think that if you asked most parents, they'd SAY that they want to be a better parent than their own parents, but I think if you looked more carefully you'd find that most people raise their kids exactly the way they were raised, and that only the surface details have changed. It's only a very few thoughtful parents, in my experience, that make a conscious decision to use a different style with their children AND actually stick to that decision. And most people would only think of improving their children's opportunities for education and prosperity, and give no thought to "parenting style."

Honestly, I think we learn to be parents by watching our parents parent us. In a sane and stable society, this would be a perfectly functional way of learning to be a parent. Trouble is, we don't live in a sane and stable society. Trouble also is, that without being able to look to our own parents as models, a lot of us are left floundering, with nothing to do but act "reactively"-- ie we know what we don't want to do, but not what we do want to do.

That's why I feel like I've been so blessed in my own parent.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I hope on a daily basis to be a better parent than my mother was.

And I'm in no danger of being like my dad was. But unfortunately, I see a lot of the same tendencies in my DH.

And, I think I'm a very similar parent to how my mom was, unfortunately...

I hope the differences are enough to create a more functional and supportive environment for DS.

However, it does break my heart to see that some of the things I wanted to avoid about my home life as a child (a somewhat dysfunctional marriage, and a husband who is mean to the wife) seem to have come true for my DS.

I guess we all have to do the best we can. I guess I take it for granted that most people want to be better parents than their parents were. I think the problem is that we ARE our parents, in so many ways, and behavior pattern are just so deeply ingrained, we don't even realize what we're doing a lot of the time.

Change is possible... but it is also hard.


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

basically i agree with the OP [it definitely applies to me], and also agree with the contrasting viewpoints following. but i wonder if / how grandparents respect / accept their children's efforts to parent better than they were parented?


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rumi*
basically i agree with the OP [it definitely applies to me], and also agree with the contrasting viewpoints following. but i wonder if / how grandparents respect / accept their children's efforts to parent better than they were parented?


I am one of the ones who said the didn't really feel the need to parent better than their parents. As a whole, I think it would be difficult for my parents to process me wanting to do "better" but in individual things, I think they know and understand that I want to make a change from how I was raised.

Interestingly enough (or not







) my parents are still parenting teens and discuss challenges with me and my mother even calls for my opinion from time to time. This could also contribute to why I feel differently from the OP and others. My parents are still growing as parents and I see that very clearly. It's difficult to see a parent struggle with the same things I am struggling with and feel a need to do "better" than them, yk?

I am one of the ones who said the didn't really feel the need to parent better than their parents. As a whole, I think it would be difficult for my parents to process me wanting to do "better" but in individual things, I think they know and understand that I want to make a change from how I was raised.

Interestingly enough (or not







) my parents are still parenting teens and discuss challenges with me and my mother even calls for my opinion from time to time. This could also contribute to why I feel differently from the OP and others. My parents are still growing as parents and I see that very clearly. It's difficult to see a parent struggle with the same things I am struggling with and feel a need to do "better" than them, yk?

And, I know this must be different when your parents are "finished" parenting young kids - when they stop evolving so to speak but, because mine aren't, things are different for me/us.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

So, I just asked my mom. She said she wouldn't be offended if I told her I wanted to be a better parent than her


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't want to be a better parent than my mom. There are some things I'll do a bit differently, but out whole culture is different, so that's not surprising.

Most of my biggest emotional issues stem from an alcoholic, passive-aggressive, emotionally distant father (he was _wonderful_ when I was little, though) and an evil grandmother. My children don't have those issues to deal with. I have it much easier than my mom did, in many ways, and I hope my kids are happier than I am (although life is better every day). But, I don't have any issues with how _she_ parented us.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

I do not want to be a better parent, because I cannot put my finger on what that means. I am different, but my life is SOOO much different. My mother was handicapped and married to an unsupportive husband. There were constant financial troubles besides. That woman was STRESSED and there are things she did that I really do not want to do. At no point will my kids be able to reflect on my relatively pleasant little life and say, "OH! That's why she blew her top!" Which truthfully is the way I see much of my mother's "bad" behavior.

I can only parent in this moment and be who I am with these children, and I will tell you that is a VERY different person from who my mother wass with us. I love her and all the good an bad things she did because as I get farther along in this whole parenting thing, I realize she had an extremely difficult job and somehow left us all feeling pretty well loved, if a bit damaged. I DO hope my kids feel less like scratch and dents than me and my siblings, but I cannot predict that my set of mistakes won't be just a detrimental to these kids as my mom's mistakes were to us.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Duplicate post


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Mama_mojo, thank you for sharing your perspective of acceptance about your upbringing. I am curious about your sig line 'on the road to fear free childrearing'. My goal is to nurture a healthy foundation from which to explore the world without fear, for _each_ member in our family. Fear based living is a huge personal obstacle which I have learned/am learning to overcome.

Pat


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## mike (Sep 5, 2005)

THE wonderfull thing about the mind is it always seems to remember things better than they realy were. I remember having a wonderfull childhood too, but you know what as a baby i was cercumcised. In young youth i was spanked. I have three older brothers that picked on me. And if i do as good as my parents thats good enough. ofcorce theres always room for inprovement. PERFECTION IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.


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