# Needy kids at the park



## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

How does everyone handle having kids that appear to need attention stick to you at the park (or other places)? This has happened several times and for the most part I don't mind and usually enjoy chatting up the little ones. Also, lots of times they will interact nicely with the baby and that's cute.

However, sometimes I'm just tired and want to do my own thing with DS alone and get outta there







. And sometimes I've had kids that are a bit too overbearing and just glom onto us







:. For example, there are 2 little girls, ages approx. 4 and 5 ish that seem to be there a lot when we are as well. The second they see us they zoom right next to us and fawn over DS which would be really cute but they overwhelm him. They hover over him, constantly attempt to pick him up, both of them standing in his way, etc. I can clearly see he gets upset and I do gently tell them to give him some space.

Or another time, a little girl talked with me a bit and then proceeded to follow us to every single piece of equipment we went on. Not only follow us but jump on first whenever she saw us headed towards something. I know she just wanted to interact and I did try to include her but it got really annoying because I couldn't get DS on anything!

So how do you all handle it? Are all you MDC moms in a great, loving mood all the time and embrace all these kids and give them all the attention they want







? Am I the big meanie that just gets in an antisocial mood every so often







?


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## Nim (Sep 11, 2009)

We visit the park often and I admit at having the same problem.
Sometimes I just want our space-especially when other childrens parents are completely ignoring their little ones and I have to intercede and play parent to the whole park of kids.
When we want time alone we go really early before there are any crowds.

When other kids are being play hogs at the park and the parents are off in la-la land I try to talk to the other kids and get them to take turns etc.

But, ya know, they're public parks so you just sort of have to find a way to get along or just find another more private space to play.

It IS frustrating for me when we're at parks and other parents just aren't paying attention when their kids are acting badly at the park. They just assume if there's one adult that IS watching-its free leave for them to cop out and go talk on their cell phones. >_<


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

If you can work the naps around it, 1 PM is an excellent time to go to the park if you want it to yourself. I've found almost all parks have a lunch/naptime exodus at about 12:30-1. We bring lunch and picnic and then play in peace.

Of course, there are times when we want to go in the morning, and then I just include the other kids if they seem to need attention. We had a little kid that did this in our apartment complex. He was 7 and very sweet with my son, but he annoyed me to tears, and he would follow us all the way home and try everything to get us to keep playing. I found out that his parents basically ditched him with his elderly grandmother, and that he had some siblings that he never saw. I felt bad for him, so I tried to be as nice as I could stand. Just be gentle, but firm.


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## Crunchiemomma (Jul 9, 2009)

You never know what the childs home situation is like and your short interaction with them might just be the highlight of their week. = (
For that reason, I am happy with interact with the other kids whose parents are not involved.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I don't think you're a meany! Sometimes it was overwhelming to me, when my own children were small and needy, to have other children demanding my attention.

I still remember when my oldest was a very busy and daredevilish toddler, so I was following her around and spot-checking her on all the playground equipment -- and this little girl of about 5, whose parents were sitting nearby on the grass, kept telling me, "Hey! You need to watch me, too!"

I could understand that she was wanting the hands-on attention that my toddler was getting, while her own parents were just expecting her to play a bit while they enjoyed a little adult time.

And since having my 2nd dd, I've seen that sometimes their needs can change when they see all the intensive care a younger child gets.

Also, when my oldest was 4 and I was pregnant with my 2nd dd, it took a great deal of my energy just to WALK to the park, and while there I wanted to just sit drink my water and read my magazine. And one time this other child (whose mother I think was sitting in the car) wanted me to get up and come push her on the swing --

And I told her, "I just want to sit right now. My daughter is now old enough to do a lot on her own, and I will soon have a littler one who I'll need to follow around all the time, so now I'm enjoying a little break."

Of course the child looked at me like I was crazy -- but I didn't feel too bad anyhow.

Now that my youngest is 4, I find that I actually enjoy interacting with other people's kids at the park. A while back a bunch were gathering around me to have me help them make clover jewelry, and it was a lot of fun -- the "me" in that moment actually reminded me of the "me" I was before I had kids ...

For so long I've just been interested in my own children, and not really feeling any urge to hold other people's babies or bond with their children.

But now I'm realizing that I actually do still like kids. Even though of course I love my own most of all, I really am a kid-person at heart -- and now that I don't have tiny ones needing so much intense hands-on care, I actually have some "me" to spare.

But as far as how to handled needy kids when you feel full-up caring for your own -- I would just be as kind and honest as possible. And let them know that your son needs space and likes to get the chance to do things on his own. I've had to tell older kids this many times when my own were little -- the older kids feel an urge to be helpful, but sometimes need help learning to respect other's space.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm pretty happy to interact with other kids at the park.

Our kids are often friendly with other parents, and anxious to get to know other kids, and I appreciate when the other parents are kind and friendly back to them. I try to notice when they'd rather just play with their own kid, or read their book or whatever, and intervene, but generally, I try and be friendly since that's what I appreciate from others.

As for how the other kids interact with your DS, I'd just try to facilitate a positive interaction between them. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that your DS doesn't want to be picked up, or likes and dislikes being treated in particular ways.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchiemomma* 
You never know what the childs home situation is like and your short interaction with them might just be the highlight of their week. = (
For that reason, I am happy with interact with the other kids whose parents are not involved.

That's a great point and I always have some interaction with them. However, I do have 2 chronic conditions that cause me pain/fatigue. On my *good* days, I don't mind so much but there are days where I'm easily annoyed and don't have much to give. I just wish their parents would/could give them the attention they are craving.







I do feel sympathy for the little tykes.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 







I don't think you're a meany! Sometimes it was overwhelming to me, when my own children were small and needy, to have other children demanding my attention.

.

Thank you MM!







. I'm really not a meany, just getting old and tired


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## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

I would probably say, "_____ needs to have some space right now, why don't you try out the slide for a while." I find that suggesting that they do something really well and that they might like to do it goes over well. "I bet you're great at climbing the monkey bars, let's see all the stuff you can do." Then you can give the occasional glance over so they feel like you're paying attention but they aren't hovering over you.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Children don't pick up on non-verbal cues or subtle hints very well. So, if I've had my limit, I tell them that I need some time to myself. If they're stopping my kid from getting on equipment, I tell them. I'm polite, but very direct.

"Thanks for talking to us girls, but ds wants to play by himself right now. He's getting cranky because there are too many people here. Please go play somewhere else."

"It was nice to talk to you, but I need some time to myself right now. Who brought you to the park? Please go talk to her/him right now."

"Thanks for playing, but my kids would like to play by themselves right now. Maybe we can play again the next time we come to the park."

If you've got a condition that makes it hard for you to be 'on' all the time, tell the kids "I'm tired/my head hurts/I need time to myself."


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## bugginsmom (Aug 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchiemomma* 
You never know what the childs home situation is like and your short interaction with them might just be the highlight of their week. = (
For that reason, I am happy with interact with the other kids whose parents are not involved.

Exactly! I just figure when I go to the park that it is part of the deal.


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## franklinmarxmom (Nov 29, 2007)

We really struggle with this. It keeps us from going to our favorite park these days, because every time we go some lonely child or another follows us EVERYWHERE and won't stop talking. This particular park seems to attract a lot of kids on their own--sibling groups of 2-4 kids from ages 2-12, with no adult supervision. I feel bad for them, so I am not mean, but both DH and I work FT, so when we get a little park time we don't want to be watching a bunch of 5-10 yo kids while we play with our 2 yo. And our 2 yo doesn't want to play with them either! I don't know what to do about it, except not go to that park anymore, so we don't.









I guess I am just a meanie.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

We struggle with this too, especially since I'm very 'hands-on' with my own girls (8, almost 5 and 19 months). We usually end up with at least one or two little ones following us around, wanting to play, asking all kinds of questions, asking for snacks, et cetera.

Usually I'm fine with it, but I do wonder quite often why these kids are in need of so much attention- until I notice their parent(s) off in the background somewhere, not interacting at all









I do try my best to smile and play 'mommy' for a bit, but we also tend to go home earlier than planned so we can re-group when this happens









I wish I could provide more, but these days I'm so out of energy from my own little ones that it's hard to muster up the strength to care for an additional child.

So, in short, I don't think you're meany- you're a tired mama who wants to save her energy, and occasionally relax with her own lovely









ETA: after re-reading this, I wanted to add that some kids are just chatty and like to hangout, as well as some who haven't learned much about boundaries... it's not always that they're being ignored or starving for attention, though I do run into the latter often..


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I haven't read the other responses yet. Like you, I generally just enjoy chatting with whoever. If I'm uncomfortable with something they do, or if my kids are uncomfortable, we speak about it directly, giving friendly but firm information about our boundaries, then redirect.


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## flower01 (Aug 1, 2007)

Honestly, I'm kind of anti-social in public situations. I'm certainly nice to other kids when I am at the park with my DD, but it really does annoy me when the other parents are completely ignoring their kid and the child is asking ME to push them on the swing. That is something that I will not do because I feel like it is inappropriate for me to physically lift a child that isn't mine (especially since I'm pregnant). I never ignore other children and I love it if they want to play with my daughter, but if they are just trying to "show off" to me or keep my attention, I will talk to them for a minute and tell them I have to pay attention to my daughter since she is so little. This is rarely an issue at the smaller parks during the week though - seems to happen a lot at the larger parks on the weekends when the adults want to just hang out and drink! I just want to yell at them and say "hey, i want to sit and drink, too!" We especially notice this with DH...I think it's so sad because these kids obviously want some male attention.


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## Nim (Sep 11, 2009)

I just want to point out that when little ones are at the park alone-
I always ask where their parents are if I don't see them.

PLEASE remember to always do this-even if the child seems fine and happy.

I don't ask when the child is with a group of siblings etc-just when they are alone.

So with real little ones alone, I always ask.
I know some parents are ok with it, but I'm always shocked when I see the age little ones walk to the park alone.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Just a thought from "the other side"--

My DD does this. She is not starved for attention and I am not trying to ignore her. But she is VERY extroverted and LOVES to meet new people. She will ignore ME and my attempts to engage her and seek out other people. Unless I superglue her to my side or constantly struggle with her, she IS going to approach people and talk to them. And I can't see myself making a rule that she isn't ever allowed to talk to anyone, or never going to the park.

Also, it is awkward and weird to struggle with her and make a scene with her over her chatting with an adult. In fact, when I feel she is being too forward/ persistent and have had to work hard to get her away from someone, the adult usually says "Oh no, it's fine--I'm enjoying her" or something--which is even trickier because I can't tell if they mean it or are just being polite.

I do keep an eye on her and try to lead her back or away when I feel like it's been too long an interaction. But...she thrives on this. It is her nature. It's like how some kids are just naturally shy. She's the opposite.

That said, I don't mind at all if an adult kindly sets a limit or tells her to go find me or whatever. But I just don't want people to assume that she is doing this because she is neglected or because I refuse to play with her. We play at home, but if we're at the park, I am chopped liver!

ETA that now that she is older, she is very unlikely to do this if there are kids around who are close to her age. BUT if there aren't any kids there her age, yes, she approaches parents of babies and toddlers.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

If I'm not in the mood for it I tell them so. If they're bothering my kids or really getting on my nerves (I hate to say that but it's true) I leave and take my kids somewhere else.

I do want to say, though, that parents aren't neglectful just because a child's just because they're not shadowing them at the playground. I have three little boys to supervise at the playground, plus a baby on my back. It is just not fun for anyone if I make them all stay right together and follow them around, so I stand in the middle and watch or sit on the sidelines if that is more practical. Sometimes I talk to my baby, sometimes I talk to other moms, sometimes I don't. I don't think my kids have ever asked someone to watch them or push them on the swings (save people we know well) but I might not notice if they did. And sometimes I might appear to be totally ignoring my 6yo because he doesn't need anywhere near the supervision that my 2yo needs.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

My kid is also one that will interject herself into the play of other kids - even much older kids - at the park. I try to feel out the situation and the parents to see how annoying she's being. I often have to go grab her away from situations she's just too little to be in - like on the huge field at the county park when she wants the boys to play soccer with her - but she's 2 and they're 8-10, she doesn't know the rules and they do, etc. Sometimes the older kids LOVE having her around and are tickled pink by her attention, engage her in their play, modifiy the rules for her, etc. Sometimes they don't and I have to grab her before she gets hurt. She has a lot of trouble understanding why sometimes, some big kids will play with her and other times other bigs kids won't.

There's a family in our complex that is 4 kids under 5. The oldest is - overwhelming to me, to say the least. She's nosy. She wants to constantly touch the 3 year old, the baby and me. She asked immediately upon meeting the baby what type of formula she ate, and when her nap time was. She made sure to tell me baby should be sleeping in a crib. I kept telling her to go play. After about 2 minutes of this kid, i'm ready to LEAVE the playground. We have three distinct playground areas in the complex and if I try to leave with DD1 and walk over to the other one, this kid (and the others all in tow, I've only ever seen a parent once) follows us.

For a while there, we were headed to the playground every time we had decent weather this summer. I could NOT figure out how they kept getting there 2 minutes after us. Turns out, we'd walk past their house on our way to the playground, and the older girls was sitting looking out the window for us all day.

We just stopped going to the playgrounds for a like a month. I'd have to get in the car and take my kids to a park to get away from that child.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

wow--the OLDEST is under 5 and this kid takes 3 other younger kids to the park with her without an adult??







:


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I try to be polite but firm. I'll answer a few questions, but I have no problem saying, "Honey, the baby is scared of people and kids she doesn't know....please go play." or "The baby just wants to be with mama right now, run along and play, or hang out with your own parents."

If I'm already pushing my own child on a swing I'm more than happy to push another child right next to our swing....unless the child is too heavy for me to push comfortably. Then I offer to help them start out, but tell them they need to keep it going. If a child is too heavy I get "swing arm" pretty quick.

If I only have older kids with me and I want to read I'll tell the child that too..."I'm reading a book, this is how I relax at the park. Please let me read by myself."


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## KweenKrunch (Jul 25, 2009)

More often than not, when this happens, the child is interested when I'm nursing one of the kids and I see that as a good opportunity to share information and ideas. A lot of times these needy kids are walking around with bottles and may have never seen normative infant feeding/bonding.


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## Whistler (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm like the OP... A lot of times I don't want to be social with all the kids. I think they are a little like cats... they want to sit on the lap of the one who wouldreally rather not! I do try and talk to them for a while though.

Sometimes my uber-outgoing daughter will go initiate conversations with the other parents even though she is hardly attention-starved! I always watch very carefully but for the most part I encourage friendliness although if the other adult is showing signs of not wanting to talk I'll call her away.

IMO that's what the park is there to do... encourage social interaction with people of all ages. (And get some exercise!) It usually works both ways.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I agree that we all need to expect this type of stuff at the park, and sometimes I'm happy to play along, but other times I'm just not in the mood and I have no problem saying so. I'll say something direct but polite like, "Sorry, my daughter needs all my attention today. I'm glad you're having fun, but I can't watch you anymore -- bye!"

IME, kids do very well with that kind of stuff -- once they clearly understand your expectations, they just move on. The times I've run into trouble with this is when I've tried to sugar-coat my phrases to the point where the kid wasn't sure what I was trying to say.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

loraxc - yep. But it's not really a park, it's a playground in the open space between condo buildings - a courtyard sortof set up. Still, it's compeltely out of sight/hearing range from their house. Only once or twice did I see her there with the other kids alone, usually it's just HER alone, or her and her 4 yo brother (who doesn't walk and she says he's "different" so i don't know what that means. He seems to hear and understand things just fine. Maybe he's just shy, but I think it's more than that. Anyways, yes the two of them are allowed to go the playground alone. Once I figured out where they lived I have offered to help them get home when she's irritating me at the playground, and that tends to send her back to the playground equipment. I have a feeling things aren't great at home. I've heard the dad screaming at a child for not doing homework and not taking school seriously, but the 5 year old is the oldest child, and She said her mom is a nurse. I have no idea what to make of this family, and just generally stay away as much as possible.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Hey Betsy.. just wanted to say that I feel for ya!

we live in student-family housing and although most of the parents here keep an eye out (there are three different playgrounds) I have also seen a few kids wandering around, without a parent in sight (think ages 2-5). While I understand that some may be ok with this, it makes ME cringe









One of the structures in right behind our apt (20 ft or so from our back porch) and I won't even let my 8 yr old play out there alone, let alone my almost 5 yr old. Our neighbors, who live on the other side of the playground are fine with their 5 and nearly 3 yr old playing without grown-ups, so I DO second-guess myself on occasion. I guess I'm just too paranoid about the what-ifs.

For what it's worth- the other mama (of the boys who play without supervision) is wonderful and very attentive when she is outside. I think she may even be on mdc









I would be curious as to what the parents in your post teach the kids when it comes to strangers, as well as being prepared for emergencies.. hopefully a lot!


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

It the playground. Its where kids go to PLAY with other kids and people. I think that it should be expected that kids will want to play with other kids and therefore the adults around them. That's why we go to the playground. The equipment helps facilitate that, but I like when ds plays with other kids and he's only 2! So I fully expect him to be playing with other kids older and younger when he's 5.

I think its totally okay to say you don't want to play, or that your kids needs space etc. But it is unrealistic to go to a playground to be alone. And for a lot of people having their kid go play with other kids (and therefore the adults those kids have in tow) is the *point* of the going to the playground


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
It the playground. Its where kids go to PLAY with other kids and people. I think that it should be expected that kids will want to play with other kids and therefore the adults around them. That's why we go to the playground. The equipment helps facilitate that, but I like when ds plays with other kids and he's only 2! So I fully expect him to be playing with other kids older and younger when he's 5.

I think its totally okay to say you don't want to play, or that your kids needs space etc. But it is unrealistic to go to a playground to be alone. And for a lot of people having their kid go play with other kids (and therefore the adults those kids have in tow) is the *point* of the going to the playground

I am the OP and I didn't nor did I recall anyone else say they went to the playground to be alone. Some of us said that every so often, we just wanted to spend a little time with just our kids. FWIW, my DS just turned 1 so he needs me to be there for him and he really doesn't "get" playing with kids yet. But I have no problem letting him try. I am a WOHM and deal with chronic pain. There are times after work where I have to get it together to take my son out because he deserves and needs it. On those days, I just don't have the energy to spend on someone else's kid. My child is going to get everything I've got.

On another day, I may be feeling pretty darn good and you better believe I'll spend time at the park interacting with the social butterflies.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

OP, I totally can understand and appreciate where you are coming from and I too often feel this way. Perhaps it is that I'm nearing the end of my 4th pregnancy with three other children to take care of. I am a sahm and we homeschool. The only other support I have in my life is DH, so needless to say my breaks are few and far between. My children can play independently (and politely and will take turns/share/not bully but I am no more than 20 feet away on a bench) and I do go to the park to allow my kids to play. If they want to play with others, fine, but *I* am not there to play with other peoples' kids, push them on the swings, or just pay attention to them. Perhaps I am harsh and unkind and mean-spirited, but honestly, if I wanted to take care of other peoples' kids, I'd open a daycare. I have NO support, I get NO breaks, nobody comes to watch my kids for an hour so I can run an errand or go to the doc's office unencumbered, perhaps I am bitter, but WHY on earth should I be giving these other parents' a break? Are they going to watch my kids for me for an hour? Umm, no. Perhaps I am remiss in not using babysitters- over the past 7 years just as my kids have grown to an age where they would do ok with someone watching them, we have another baby who needs mama. I am very much an introvert and while I enjoy my kids, sometimes I need them to run off and play at the playground for 45 minutes without needing me to get snacks, waters, change diapers, and be present for them every.single.second. As much as I wish I was able to recreate this independent play time at home, it really is easier at a park where there is playground equipment and even other children to keep my kids engaged so I don't have to.

And yes, there are times too when I am down in the sand building castles, telling stories and keeping others' kids engaged too, but sometimes *I* need a break.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
Perhaps I am harsh and unkind and mean-spirited, but honestly, if I wanted to take care of other peoples' kids, I'd open a daycare. I have NO support, I get NO breaks, nobody comes to watch my kids for an hour so I can run an errand or go to the doc's office unencumbered, perhaps I am bitter, but WHY on earth should I be giving these other parents' a break?
















You're not mean spirited and I'm tired just reading your post! Believe me, sometimes I hesitate to even SAY that I get exhausted with just 1 kid but between my job and my health, it takes a toll at times. I really do applaud those that have the time, energy, and patience to never get annoyed or tired with others, I just can't always do it. But it sounds like you really do need some kid free time to regroup and breathe a bit. I hope you can get it before the new babe arrives.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I'm confused by how "I want a break from my kids/I want to sit on a bench and read for a while" jives with "These women aren't actively watching their kids! How terrible!"

I don't actively hover over my 5yo all the time. She talks to adults while out of my earshot. In the same vein, other people's kids talk to ME when they are out of their parents' earshot.







I sort of figure it's a two-way street. On the one hand, I can expect other people to interact with my kids at the park! Yay! On the other hand, I can expect that other people's kids may interact with ME (sometimes annoyingly, but hey, life can be annoying) at the park. YK? Of course I don't let her hang off some other mom for an hour, but I don't get that sense that's what we're talking about here.

I mean, not to be annoying, but whatever happened to it taking a village? Know your neighbors? Be part of the community? It's a public play area. People are going to interact with you and your kids. If you don't want to interact with people, stay in your yard.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Of course I don't let her hang off some other mom for an hour, but I don't get that sense that's what we're talking about here.


I think that is exactly what some (or even most) of us are talking about.. Of course some kids are very social and enjoy talking/playing with EVERONE, but IMO this thread is more about the kids who are looking for someone to 'parent' them rather than just a grown-up to chat with, or occasionally push them on a swing.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I'm confused by how "I want a break from my kids/I want to sit on a bench and read for a while" jives with "These women aren't actively watching their kids! How terrible!"

I don't actively hover over my 5yo all the time. She talks to adults while out of my earshot. In the same vein, other people's kids talk to ME when they are out of their parents' earshot.







I sort of figure it's a two-way street. On the one hand, I can expect other people to interact with my kids at the park! Yay! On the other hand, I can expect that other people's kids may interact with ME (sometimes annoyingly, but hey, life can be annoying) at the park. YK? Of course I don't let her hang off some other mom for an hour, but I don't get that sense that's what we're talking about here.

I mean, not to be annoying, but whatever happened to it taking a village? Know your neighbors? Be part of the community? It's a public play area. People are going to interact with you and your kids. If you don't want to interact with people, stay in your yard.


There's a difference between embracing the community and the babes and having to take care of another child. The OP is referring to the children that follow her around pretty much the whole time. The parents should step in after a little while. She's not the other child's mother. I let other children play with my kids.. but I'm not going to be responsible for them AND my children for the whole stay. It's not fair to my kids, and the other parents need to be watching their children. I watch my children like hawks, and I don't understand other parents who just let their children do things like this.


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## lerlerler (Mar 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I mean, not to be annoying, but whatever happened to it taking a village? Know your neighbors? Be part of the community? It's a public play area. People are going to interact with you and your kids. If you don't want to interact with people, stay in your yard.

I don't HAVE a yard? Live in a city.

And after a day of "MOMMY MOMMY MOMMY.." I take my son to the park to TRY to get him to interact with anyone but me!!

But yes, I will play castles for 45 minutes with him and whomever meanders over and wants to borrow a pail and shovel (sand lot) and I bring extras to facilitate that.

But when a much older child keeps interupting with "look at what i built" "let's go on the slide now" I give him a few minutes of attention and then a smiley "hey, where's your grown-up? I'm sure THEY would LOVE to see that castle" and go back to my little one...

I'll happily be part of their village... but I'm too old and cranky to be the whole city!


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 

I mean, not to be annoying, but whatever happened to it taking a village? Know your neighbors? Be part of the community? It's a public play area. People are going to interact with you and your kids. If you don't want to interact with people, stay in your yard.

Not all of us have yards, I sure don't







. Again, I am NOT talking about regular interacting. It's the *glomming on* for lack of a better term. When I only have an hour or so at the park, I really cannot always spend that time doing things with another child when I have a one year old to run after. I know I am repeating myself but I feel kind of misunderstood. When I have time, energy, AND a relatively pain free day, I have more patience for it. But on a Friday after a long work week, usually not. MOST kids are adorable and fun to talk to and are just great with my baby. It's just a few times that I've felt kind of *stuck*, wondering how I can get away from this needy kid.

Yes I know some kids are naturally out going and sociable but I think I can detect a subtle difference, IDK.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vegemamato* 
I think that is exactly what some (or even most) of us are talking about.. Of course some kids are very social and enjoy talking/playing with EVERONE, but IMO this thread is more about the kids who are looking for someone to 'parent' them rather than just a grown-up to chat with, or occasionally push them on a swing.

YES







. Thank you, maybe I'm not so misunderstood after all


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lerlerler* 
But when a much older child keeps interupting with "look at what i built" "let's go on the slide now" I give him a few minutes of attention and then a smiley "hey, where's your grown-up? I'm sure THEY would LOVE to see that castle" and go back to my little one...

I'll happily be part of their village... but I'm too old and cranky to be the whole city!

Exactly. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't go to the park because we have unrealistic expectations of wanting to be alone. All day I get sucked dry by my job, (I'm a nurse) I take care of everyone! I don't want to do it all the time on my time off to with the exception of my DS. Some days it takes me 2 hours after getting home JUST to be able to get up the energy to walk out the door, sigh.
Love your last sentence!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I think that is exactly what some (or even most) of us are talking about.. Of course some kids are very social and enjoy talking/playing with EVERONE, but IMO this thread is more about the kids who are looking for someone to 'parent' them rather than just a grown-up to chat with, or occasionally push them on a swing.
Are we talking only about truly neglected kids, then?

I mean, what does it mean, "a kid who is looking for someone to parent them"? My daughter has been known to do the following:

1) Say, "Watch me!" (or something) to an unfamiliar adult
2) Ask to sit down on another parent's blanket (I have stepped in)
3) Ask another parent to lift her up on the monkey bars
4) Engage another parent in lengthy conversation about her name, place of residence, likes and dislikes, baby's name, etc etc
5) Ask another parent to push her on the swing
6) Ask another parent to "do that" for her when that parent was playing some kind of silly game on the swings (running and catching the kid's feet, etc)
7) Hug or lean on another parent (I don't think she does this anymore, but she used to)

I don't think she's ever asked for snacks, but I wouldn't have put it past her younger self. I can remember her being offered snacks because she was visually ogling them.

BTW, I want to again state that I don't at all mind someone gently brushing my kid off after a few minutes. No problem at all. But I'm hearing an expectation in this thread that I should be *keeping her away* from other people, not approaching anyone, etc.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Just a thought from "the other side"--

My DD does this. She is not starved for attention and I am not trying to ignore her. But she is VERY extroverted and LOVES to meet new people. She will ignore ME and my attempts to engage her and seek out other people. Unless I superglue her to my side or constantly struggle with her, she IS going to approach people and talk to them. And I can't see myself making a rule that she isn't ever allowed to talk to anyone, or never going to the park.

Also, it is awkward and weird to struggle with her and make a scene with her over her chatting with an adult. In fact, when I feel she is being too forward/ persistent and have had to work hard to get her away from someone, the adult usually says "Oh no, it's fine--I'm enjoying her" or something--which is even trickier because I can't tell if they mean it or are just being polite.

I do keep an eye on her and try to lead her back or away when I feel like it's been too long an interaction. But...she thrives on this. It is her nature. It's like how some kids are just naturally shy. She's the opposite.

That said, I don't mind at all if an adult kindly sets a limit or tells her to go find me or whatever. But I just don't want people to assume that she is doing this because she is neglected or because I refuse to play with her. We play at home, but if we're at the park, I am chopped liver!

ETA that now that she is older, she is very unlikely to do this if there are kids around who are close to her age. BUT if there aren't any kids there her age, yes, she approaches parents of babies and toddlers.

This is how my dd is also and I do the same things with her. I don't think you can easily tell the difference between a kid who is looking for a parent figure and being social unless you live with that kid or their family. I think it is fine to set gentle limits and suggest other activities to kids.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
But I'm hearing an expectation in this thread that I should be *keeping her away* from other people, not approaching anyone, etc.

I haven't heard that in this thread. What I have heard is that, if your DD does approach people wanting more than a brief interaction, she needs to be prepared that there are two possible outcomes: they'll either want to play/talk for a long time, or they won't. Either outcome, IMO, is fine -- no one, kid _or_ adult, is obligated to watch/play with/talk with my kids at the park for an extended period if they'd rather not.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Are we talking only about truly neglected kids, then?

I mean, what does it mean, "a kid who is looking for someone to parent them"? My daughter has been known to do the following:


Let me expand a bit on the 2 little girls in my OP and see if your daughter would do this type of stuff (doesn't seem so from your description). Besides completely overwhelming my 1 year old DS, they get way too close to me as well. Once DS and I sat down on a bench so he could eat a snack and drink out of his sippy. One of the girls sat RIGHTNEXTTOME and the other got right in front of me. She was practically sitting on top of me







.

I kept asking them to back up a bit over and over (nicely). They also kept grabbing at DS' snack wanting to feed him and his sippy and he can feed and drink by himself, arghhh. He almost started crying because it was just too much. Then they just follow us around practically the whole time we are there. THAT is why I get annoyed and why I do not have the time or energy to deal with this type of stuff. Chatting for a bit or giving a kid a push on a swing is nothing







.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Yes, actually, she would sit rightnexttoyou.







Her sense of personal space is improving but it's taken a while.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I think a lot of kids sit in laps. They are used to sitting in laps. I think that is rather normal. I'm not saying you have to let the kid sit in your lap if you don't want to. "scoot over a little I need more room" is a fine thing to say to someone. But I don't think its werid to see a kid try to sit practically on top of someone they don't even know.

Also at the park near us, you can't eat any kind of delious snack, blueberries and strawberries come to mind, without being swarmed by kids! Again its fine to say "we don't have enough to share" But I think its also normal for kids to be all up on someone with food. At least it seems typical around here, now mostly people either don't share "sorry that's for ds/dd etc" or check in with parents to make sure its okay to share food. It seems to slow down a little as kids get older though (it was very common when ds was around 1yo to spend the whole time at the playground begging snacks off of people. even if we had the same exact snack with us)

My bff's ds is a little guy. And slightly older girls (3-5 yo) love to "baby" him. They often treat him like a doll. They want to hold his hand and walk him around, feed him, "help" him do stuff etc. He's 21 months old, so he can do all those things himself, sometimes he is tolerant of that kind of play and sometimes he's not. When he doesn't want to they tell the kids to stop that he wants to do it alone, whatever. But when he's into it he'll play with a slightly older kid for a long time. my ds too, he loves "slightly older kids" and will follow them around and try to do whatever they are doing.

I don't think that you have to ever play with a kid you don't want to play with, but I also think that a lot the things that people are describing in this thread are pretty "normal" or "typical" kid behaviors, especially in a place that kids are allowed to "be kids" Yeah, it can be annoying, yeah for some people its always annoying, but its the "nature of the beast."


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

:


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

I hate it when we take a picnic lunch to the park and other kids come up and start reaching in my bag helping themselves to our food without even asking! We usually have enough that we can share, but with all of the food allergies people seem to have today I don't want to give a kid something and then have it make them sick (most of the kids that do this aren't really verbal enough that I would trust them to know if they couldn't have something). My kids know not to ask/beg/take things from people they don't know so I guess I am taken aback when kids do it to us.

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with telling a child nicely that you can't play with them. A lot of times I do play tag, etc with my kids and others at the park, but some days I just don't feel up to it (chronic lung disease).


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## east carolina (Apr 5, 2006)

I am the mom who sits on the park bench and reads while my 4.5 year old DS runs around the playground interacting with kids. He doesn't need my help to swing, climb on the junglegym or play in the sandbox, so playground time is now my reading time. I'm not oblivious to what he's doing, but I won't get up unless he needs my help or I can see that he is bothering somebody or that I need to step in and referee a situation. He is much more interested in children rather than adults, but I have heard him tell other parents "watch me" or just randomly chat them up about whatever is on his mind. He does sometimes ogle food and will go up and ask strangers if he can also have a cookie or snack or whatever, although I make sure to let him know that he must ask politely and not be surprised if they tell him no. I've actually had nothing but positive experiences, strangers have thus far been totally talkative, polite and generous with my child.

I would never be offended if another parent told my DS that he should go find me or let him know politely that he was overstepping their boundaries. I mean, I teach him that myself -- always come to me first and respect other people's space and privacy.

It looks like you just need to be firmer with those girls and just politely and gently tell them that they are crowding your lo. But you never know, in a few years your DS could be the one running around telling other parents to watch him and sitting next to whoever brought the baby and bombarding them with questions.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lerlerler* 
i'll happily be part of their village... But i'm too old and cranky to be the whole city!

exactly!!!!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *east carolina* 
I am the mom who sits on the park bench and reads while my 4.5 year old DS runs around the playground interacting with kids. He doesn't need my help to swing, climb on the junglegym or play in the sandbox, so playground time is now my reading time. I'm not oblivious to what he's doing, but I won't get up unless he needs my help or I can see that he is bothering somebody or that I need to step in and referee a situation. He is much more interested in children rather than adults, but I have heard him tell other parents "watch me" or just randomly chat them up about whatever is on his mind. He does sometimes ogle food and will go up and ask strangers if he can also have a cookie or snack or whatever, although I make sure to let him know that he must ask politely and not be surprised if they tell him no. I've actually had nothing but positive experiences, strangers have thus far been totally talkative, polite and generous with my child.

I would never be offended if another parent told my DS that he should go find me or let him know politely that he was overstepping their boundaries. I mean, I teach him that myself -- always come to me first and respect other people's space and privacy.

It looks like you just need to be firmer with those girls and just politely and gently tell them that they are crowding your lo. But you never know, in a few years your DS could be the one running around telling other parents to watch him and sitting next to whoever brought the baby and bombarding them with questions.









This.
My son isnt neglected. Im with him 24/7. He's just very independent, outgoing and social, and is always looking for kids to play with. He's not interested in playing with me. The whole reason we go to the playground, is to play with other kids. In the meantime, i read a magazine and drink my coffee. Of course i intervene where i have to, and keep my eye on him (and his equally independent 17 m old brother)


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Just a thought from "the other side"--

My DD does this. She is not starved for attention and I am not trying to ignore her. But she is VERY extroverted and LOVES to meet new people. She will ignore ME and my attempts to engage her and seek out other people. Unless I superglue her to my side or constantly struggle with her, she IS going to approach people and talk to them. And I can't see myself making a rule that she isn't ever allowed to talk to anyone, or never going to the park.

Also, it is awkward and weird to struggle with her and make a scene with her over her chatting with an adult. In fact, when I feel she is being too forward/ persistent and have had to work hard to get her away from someone, the adult usually says "Oh no, it's fine--I'm enjoying her" or something--which is even trickier because I can't tell if they mean it or are just being polite.

I do keep an eye on her and try to lead her back or away when I feel like it's been too long an interaction. But...she thrives on this. It is her nature. It's like how some kids are just naturally shy. She's the opposite.

That said, I don't mind at all if an adult kindly sets a limit or tells her to go find me or whatever. But I just don't want people to assume that she is doing this because she is neglected or because I refuse to play with her. We play at home, but if we're at the park, I am chopped liver!

ETA that now that she is older, she is very unlikely to do this if there are kids around who are close to her age. BUT if there aren't any kids there her age, yes, she approaches parents of babies and toddlers.

You just described my 6.5 year old son.
I go through the same thing where I worry that he is annoying another adult, but they say it's fine, even when I can tell it isn't.

I always wonder if people are assuming that we don;t interact with DS enough and THAT is why he is so social. People should be careful about jumping to conclusions about children, especially total strangers.


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## karemore (Oct 7, 2008)

Of course you aren't a meanie.

When DD was that age she didn't want older kids crowding her either. I'd just say she's too young to play, she justs wants to play alone, etc.

There's nothing wrong with being firm and setting limits with children, your own or other people's. It doesn't make you any less AP or any less kind.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

But I think there is a big difference between sitting on a bench and sipping a latte AND keeping your eye on your kid, and kids without an adult to be found.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Yes, I agree to the above.. The mamas on here who said they enjoy drinking coffee and reading aren't really who we are referring to. You ladies said you still watch your babes.. We are talking about the moms who let their little ones do as they please, and run without supervision. I had a little boy grab a can of soda we had the other day( sitting about 5 feet away from us on the swings) and just pour it out. I should have said something..but was in total shock. His mom was on the other side of a playset just ignoring everything. The little boy could not have been older than 2.. Obviously he didn't know any better, but I couldn't imagine letting my young child getting that far away from me.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Mine is not so much a park issue as a yard issue. I live in courtyard-style apts. too (somebody else mentioned it) and there's quite a few less-than-well supervised little kids around here. (Think preschool age.)

I've started bringing out quite a few of my kids' toys and parking on a chair on my patio. We have a playground, but it is small, there is no bench, and when school gets out, it's overrun.

The other day, my front yard looked like a daycare play-yard--and I was the ONLY adult with my 3. There's a little girl who's got to be 4 at the oldest who was playing with us, she's come around looking for my son, and I have NO idea who her parent is.

Anyway, in my head I've established ground rules that I'll send home anybody who is causing trouble in my yard. So far, I have not actually had to send anyone home. (I'm willing to ask a kid to share, but if you hurt someone or generally make the play not fun for everyone else, I'm going to tell you to go home. No, this area is not fenced or anything, but my children are playing in the area immediately outside our door...)

I actually rather enjoy this and it works out pretty well as a 'break' for me even.....but so far I've not had any annoying conversationalists or anyone who would cause me to "enforce" the rules. (by the way they apply to my own kids too, they are not allowed to bring out anything they don't want to share, and if one of them were generally making the time miserable, I would remove them. Not fair to the sibling if I clean everything up.)


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

It's the in-my-face-ness and wanting to "help" DD (She just turned 3 and is perfectly capable of drinking from her cup and doing everything our little playgrounds offer without any help) that makes me uncomfortable. And the 5-yo girl I mentioned earlier is one that would rather bother me than play with DD or other kids around. Like she thinks we're at the playground for *me* not for DD, or something.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

It's the in-my-face-ness and wanting to "help" DD (She just turned 3 and is perfectly capable of drinking from her cup and doing everything our little playgrounds offer without any help) that makes me uncomfortable.
On this--my DD does not do this, but I have definitely encountered little girls who are like this with my DS. I generally assume that they have little siblings or cousins whom they have been encouraged to help out with, or that their acting "mothering" has been praised. This is a strong cultural value for some folks.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
But I think there is a big difference between sitting on a bench and sipping a latte AND keeping your eye on your kid, and kids without an adult to be found.

Yes, mama, this. The children I've discussed so far had no apparent adult in sight.

FWIW, I think it's good to remember that we all have unique personalities. One may love having interactions with both kids and adults, may not mind at all if a child climbs in their lap or hangs out with them while they're with their kids at the park. Another person may not like anyone in their *space* so to speak, doesn't mean that one is wrong or right, just different.

I just think that we as parents do need to at least be watchful to make that distinction in others if possible. I know that I don't want my child to make someone uncomfortable if I can help it.


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## homeschoolingmama (Jun 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I'm confused by how "I want a break from my kids/I want to sit on a bench and read for a while" jives with "These women aren't actively watching their kids! How terrible!"

I don't actively hover over my 5yo all the time. She talks to adults while out of my earshot. In the same vein, other people's kids talk to ME when they are out of their parents' earshot.







I sort of figure it's a two-way street. On the one hand, I can expect other people to interact with my kids at the park! Yay! On the other hand, I can expect that other people's kids may interact with ME (sometimes annoyingly, but hey, life can be annoying) at the park. YK? Of course I don't let her hang off some other mom for an hour, but I don't get that sense that's what we're talking about here.

I mean, not to be annoying, but whatever happened to it taking a village? Know your neighbors? Be part of the community? It's a public play area. People are going to interact with you and your kids. If you don't want to interact with people, stay in your yard.


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## Epona (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't mind it. I'm in my "kids" phase. I have a lot of patience, empathy, love, and enjoyment of their company. So I'm good with it. I figure their clingy for a reason, and I want to be as kind to them as possible for the brief window that I might share with them. When I have been short on fuses, I always remind myself that most of the time children are reflections of their homelife, that always softens my mood, and extends my reserves. I believe that every contact that we have with every person, no matter how small, has an effect on their day/life. As a Buddhist, I want to project as much love and positivity that I can. So, I'm mindful, and usually really enjoy the other kids at the playground, no matter how loud or clingy.

I'm probably going to end up as that little old lady at the park who hates the sight of sound of children.


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## spottiew (Jan 24, 2007)

i have a knack for always seeming to be going at the no-kids time (which is the opposite of what i want)... but when we do manage to get when there are other kids, mine is one who will go up to other families- not because i'm not paying attention, but because he finds the other people interesting; he doesn't see that he should stay away.. and i don't tell him to stop unless he's REALLY bothering someone. it seems weird to go a park and not interact with people there- that's why we go. of course, i would also be bothered if some kid truly tagged along w/me- mine never goes that far, he just likes to talk and hang out for a few mins, then moves on with me. i guess i don't have it happen to me enough to really think about it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nim* 
We visit the park often and I admit at having the same problem.
Sometimes I just want our space-especially when other childrens parents are completely ignoring their little ones and I have to intercede and play parent to the whole park of kids.
When we want time alone we go really early before there are any crowds.

When other kids are being play hogs at the park and the parents are off in la-la land I try to talk to the other kids and get them to take turns etc.

But, ya know, they're public parks so you just sort of have to find a way to get along or just find another more private space to play.

It IS frustrating for me when we're at parks and other parents just aren't paying attention when their kids are acting badly at the park. They just assume if there's one adult that IS watching-its free leave for them to cop out and go talk on their cell phones. >_<


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

One may love having interactions with both kids and adults, may not mind at all if a child climbs in their lap or hangs out with them while they're with their kids at the park. Another person may not like anyone in their *space* so to speak, doesn't mean that one is wrong or right, just different.
I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being introverted. I am actually introverted myself (I don't know where DD gets her extroversion, actually!), though less so with kids than adults.

However, the issue I have is with the seeming expectation for everyone else to behave as though the park is a private place where one should not speak to others. I may be introverted, but I don't think it's fair of me to be exasperated or feel put off if another adult makes light conversation with me at the store or the post office or on a plane or in another public space where interaction is very normal. Actually, you could argue that interaction is MORE normal and expected at the park than at these places.

(Likewise, an extrovert should not expect to chat with others in situations where the wall of privacy is generally higher, such as at the library or in a restaurant with separate tables.)


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being introverted. I am actually introverted myself (I don't know where DD gets her extroversion, actually!), though less so with kids than adults.

However, the issue I have is with the *seeming expectation for everyone else to behave as though the park is a private place where one should not speak to others.* I may be introverted, but I don't think it's fair of me to be exasperated or feel put off if another adult makes light conversation with me at the store or the post office or on a plane or in another public space where interaction is very normal. Actually, you could argue that interaction is MORE normal and expected at the park than at these places.

(Likewise, an extrovert should not expect to chat with others in situations where the wall of privacy is generally higher, such as at the library or in a restaurant with separate tables.)

I don't think that anyone here is suggesting that parks should be places of solitude.. I enjoy talking to parents and kids- my issue is when there are NO parents, and the kids are left to follow us where ever we go. I think that interaction among people is completely normal and expected- but there are social guidelines to follow, you know?

I've never considered librarys to be off-limits, either. I'll admit that I'm very guilty of striking up many conversations there (which is much different than a restaurant, IMO). I kick it in the children's section though, and almost always pair up with a random (usually crunchy) parent while the kids wander off to read


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being introverted. I am actually introverted myself (I don't know where DD gets her extroversion, actually!), though less so with kids than adults.

*However, the issue I have is with the seeming expectation for everyone else to behave as though the park is a private place where one should not speak to others.* I may be introverted, but I don't think it's fair of me to be exasperated or feel put off if another adult makes light conversation with me at the store or the post office or on a plane or in another public space where interaction is very normal. Actually, you could argue that interaction is MORE normal and expected at the park than at these places.

(Likewise, an extrovert should not expect to chat with others in situations where the wall of privacy is generally higher, such as at the library or in a restaurant with separate tables.)

Hmm, I'm really feeling like I'm either not being understood or maybe I'm not being clear so I'll try it one more time:

I don't think the park is a private place at all. Most of the time I personally DON'T have an issue with interacting in general. However, there are occasional times when my VERY painful rheumatoid arthritis flares up. I also get debillitating, chronic headaces as the result of having a history of mini strokes. Yes I have a stinky medical history







. I tried to gloss over the details in a previous post but there it is. How I wish I was 25 and completely healthy again







.

So I have bad days. On those off days, my son still needs fresh air and to stretch his little legs and off we go. On those days, when I am feeling not so great, my son deserves my energy and attention. It is not fair to him or to me, to give it those kids who seem to be hanging around with no adult present. On those days, I just don't have it in me. And like the 2 little girls I described, should I cater to them at my son's expense? Of course not! On good days, I have more time and gusto for these kids.

FWIW, I am not an introvert







, had to sneak that in there because I am a very socially out going person. But I think we all have our moments. Are all of us really *on* all the time? I am the magent for stranger conversation, I have one of those faces that says "talk to me"








. It's all good. Can someone please let me know if I am making myself clear? (seriously, sometimes I really wonder because I confuse myself







)


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Hmm, I'm really feeling like I'm either not being understood or maybe I'm not being clear so I'll try it one more time:

I don't think the park is a private place at all. Most of the time I personally DON'T have an issue with interacting in general. However, there are occasional times when my VERY painful rheumatoid arthritis flares up. I also get debillitating, chronic headaces as the result of having a history of mini strokes. Yes I have a stinky medical history







. I tried to gloss over the details in a previous post but there it is. How I wish I was 25 and completely healthy again







.

So I have bad days. On those off days, my son still needs fresh air and to stretch his little legs and off we go. On those days, when I am feeling not so great, my son deserves my energy and attention. It is not fair to him or to me, to give it those kids who seem to be hanging around with no adult present. On those days, I just don't have it in me. And like the 2 little girls I described, should I cater to them at my son's expense? Of course not! On good days, I have more time and gusto for these kids.

FWIW, I am not an introvert







, had to sneak that in there because I am a very socially out going person. But I think we all have our moments. Are all of us really *on* all the time? I am the magent for stranger conversation, I have one of those faces that says "talk to me"








. It's all good. Can someone please let me know if I am making myself clear? (seriously, sometimes I really wonder because I confuse myself







)

I'm with you!


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

No, I understand just fine. You like polite conversation, but you don't like signing on as a free babysitter to anonymous children.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

I had an interesting conversation with my older dss this summer about this issue. There was a boy who kept following dd and I around the pool, and didn't get any of the 'hints' I threw out there. I complained on the way home to dss about it.

Dss got pretty upset, and said that the kid probably didn't know he was bothering us. Dss doesn't get verbal cues very well either. I asked dss what I should have done, and he said I simply should have told the boy we couldn't play now, but be nice about it. Yes, he said the boy's feelings might be hurt, but it would be better than for him to wonder why I was upset at him.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Latte Mama- Hun! Do NOT sweat it. Most of us TOTALLY understand what you are saying. I'm not even chronically ill, and I don't want to be a babysitter for some other parent who doesn't watch their kids at the park. It's great to hang out with other kids.. but when they are spending the WHOLE time with you at the park.. the parent needs to step up. I would never let my babe do that. Then again I'm a total helicopter parent.. but that's my style. My child is and WILL be polite. I want him to be social, but I teach him about personal space.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bebebradford* 
Latte Mama- Hun! Do NOT sweat it. Most of us TOTALLY understand what you are saying. I'm not even chronically ill, and I don't want to be a babysitter for some other parent who doesn't watch their kids at the park. It's great to hang out with other kids.. but when they are spending the WHOLE time with you at the park.. the parent needs to step up. I would never let my babe do that. Then again I'm a total helicopter parent.. but that's my style. My child is and WILL be polite. I want him to be social, but I teach him about personal space.

Whew, THANK YOU and the PP's







. I'm very watchful of my DS and will continue to be, I was the same way with my little sis who I raised for several years. I always made sure she knew boundaries and how to interact in a courteous manner yet did not damper her spirit. She's now a respectful and delightful 20 year old. My DS will be raised the same way. Social is wonderful, social without limits, not so much







. Glad to see I really was getting through!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Latte Mama, to be clear, I wasn't necessarily really talking to you specifically--there were a lot of people who seemed to be expressing feelings about not wanting to be approached, some more strongly than you.

I'm not advocating for anybody to babysit unattended children for hours.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with being introverted. I am actually introverted myself (I don't know where DD gets her extroversion, actually!), though less so with kids than adults.

However, the issue I have is with the seeming expectation for everyone else to behave as though the park is a private place where one should not speak to others. I may be introverted, but I don't think it's fair of me to be exasperated or feel put off if another adult makes light conversation with me at the store or the post office or on a plane or in another public space where interaction is very normal. Actually, you could argue that interaction is MORE normal and expected at the park than at these places.

(Likewise, an extrovert should not expect to chat with others in situations where the wall of privacy is generally higher, such as at the library or in a restaurant with separate tables.)

passing light coversation is much different than plopping yourself down in someone's personal space and expecting a full conversation with the person. If there are 4 empty benches all in a row, and I'm sitting on one of them engrossed in a novel.....don't expect me to talk to you. I'm there for the fresh air and natural light. Now, don't get me wrong.....I'm not going to sit and stew inwardly. If you're bugging me I'll tell you (politely ofcourse) to leave me alone. But just being in public doesn't imply I want to be social. That's part of reading social cues. If you want to strike up a convo with someone at the park your're supposed to try and feel them out to see if they are receptive, then back off if they aren't. It's not my job or responsibility to entertain anyone. People's needs vary day by day, and everyone's needs should be respected. I often go to the park by myself to enjoy sitting by the lake and reading or knitting. If I'm knitting I don't mind talking to other people....and will go along with conversation attempts. But if I'm reading, I'm there to get away from the noise of my family and enjoy time by myself. Both of those things are okay to do at a park.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

passing light coversation is much different than plopping yourself down in someone's personal space and expecting a full conversation with the person. If there are 4 empty benches all in a row, and I'm sitting on one of them engrossed in a novel.....don't expect me to talk to you.
Whoa whoa whoa! I didn't think we were talking about ADULTS here. If you were at the park sitting on the bench reading, I'd never approach you. But do we really expect a 3yo to understand these same social cues about personl space and types of appropriate conversations?? And if a 3yo doesn't, am I expected to instantly run over and drag her away?

I have to say, I went to the park today and kept thinking of this thread, and it brought me down, man. My 19mo was happily playing with trucks with another little boy in one area and my 5yo was off on the other side of the park swinging. I could tell by looking over that she was engaging the other parent and kid in conversation. They were all swinging together for easily 20 minutes. So...that's not a short time, and I suppose someone could have thought she was "all alone" (though the park was not crowded and it would probably have been easy to connect the dots if you'd tried). I was in no way interacting with her. I was out of earshot, though within easy view. Should I have gone over and made her leave?? Should I have dragged my 19mo over to where she was??


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Whoa whoa whoa! I didn't think we were talking about ADULTS here. If you were at the park sitting on the bench reading, I'd never approach you. But do we really expect a 3yo to understand these same social cues about personl space and types of appropriate conversations?? And if a 3yo doesn't, am I expected to instantly run over and drag her away?

I have to say, I went to the park today and kept thinking of this thread, and it brought me down, man. My 19mo was happily playing with trucks with another little boy in one area and my 5yo was off on the other side of the park swinging. I could tell by looking over that she was engaging the other parent and kid in conversation. They were all swinging together for easily 20 minutes. So...that's not a short time, and I suppose someone could have thought she was "all alone" (though the park was not crowded and it would probably have been easy to connect the dots if you'd tried). I was in no way interacting with her. I was out of earshot, though within easy view. Should *I have gone over and made her leave?? Should I have dragged my 19mo over to where she was?*?

depends.. was the other mama pushing your daughter on the swing? did it look like the mom was happy?

I think that, reguardless of the dynamic between the mom+kid and your dd, I would have at least gone over (lo too) to check on things every now and then. probably not a big deal- but who knows? Maybe the mom had some chronic health issue or depression or just an 'off-day' going on, and she was waiting for a parent to come and relieve her..

Not trying to pick on you at all, but I think that it's important to be aware of these things when we have children in a public space. IMHO, 20 minutes seems a bit too long.. (even calling your dd over to ask how things are going would've been reasonable..)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Really? Really??

Sigh.

No, the other dad (it was a dad) was not pushing my daughter. That would have been different. Did he look happy? I don't know. He was over 100 feet away. How would I even really tell??

If I had attempted to call her over, what would I have said? I mean, am I supposed to tell her "You've been swinging near those other people for too long"? Seriously? I should police her proximity to others at the park, because she happens to be talkative? If she'd been swinging in silence, would that be okay? If she's been two swings down and only occasionally saying something, would that be?

I'm sure my DS would have kicked and screamed if I'd picked him up. DD would have thought I was nuts, too, for calling her over just to say...what? How's it going? Um...it's going fine, Mom. I'm swinging and talking to that other 5yo. And?


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Really? Really??

Sigh.

No, the other dad (it was a dad) was not pushing my daughter. That would have been different. Did he look happy? I don't know. He was over 100 feet away. How would I even really tell??

If I had attempted to call her over, what would I have said? I mean, am I supposed to tell her "You've been swinging near those other people for too long"? Seriously? I should police her proximity to others at the park, because she happens to be talkative? If she'd been swinging in silence, would that be okay? If she's been two swings down and only occasionally saying something, would that be?

I'm sure my DS would have kicked and screamed if I'd picked him up. DD would have thought I was nuts, too, for calling her over just to say...what? How's it going? Um...it's going fine, Mom. I'm swinging and talking to that other 5yo. And?

Getting close enough to read the other parent's body language would have been nice...or going over to ask him if she was bothering him etc. would have been the polite thing to do. I can usually tell if my kid is bugging someone, and then I put a stop to it....talk to my child about how it seems like the other person doesn't feel so much like talking right now etc.

I feel it's my job as a parent to help my children learn to read the social cues of others so that they don't become the kid that everyone avoids because they never shut up, lol. There have been times where we've been pulling into the park and seen a certain family there.......and decided to turn around and leave. Now this family isn't bad, their kids are really sweet in fact...however....they talk (the kids) nonstop and just suck the energy out of everyone around them.....and there are days I just don't feel up to them...so we decide to go do something else. I don't want people to see my children, and decide not to come to the park that day because they can't deal with MY kids. This particular family doesn't read social cues well, and the parents don't prevent their kids from speaking 100 words a minute at adults they barely know while the adult's eyes glaze over....and they also allow their kids to follow the adult when the adult tries to get away from them









Most kids/families aren't that bad, but I would never allow my child to approach an adult that is obviously absorbed in something they are doing and interupt them just to chat. It's just not nice.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Getting close enough to read the other parent's body language would have been nice...or going over to ask him if she was bothering him etc. would have been the polite thing to do. I can usually tell if my kid is bugging someone, and then I put a stop to it....talk to my child about how it seems like the other person doesn't feel so much like talking right now etc.

I feel it's my job as a parent to help my children learn to read the social cues of others so that they don't become the kid that everyone avoids because they never shut up, lol. There have been times where we've been pulling into the park and seen a certain family there.......and decided to turn around and leave. Now this family isn't bad, their kids are really sweet in fact...however....they talk (the kids) nonstop and just suck the energy out of everyone around them.....and there are days I just don't feel up to them...so we decide to go do something else. I don't want people to see my children, and decide not to come to the park that day because they can't deal with MY kids. This particular family doesn't read social cues well, and the parents don't prevent their kids from speaking 100 words a minute at adults they barely know while the adult's eyes glaze over....and they also allow their kids to follow the adult when the adult tries to get away from them









Most kids/families aren't that bad, but I would never allow my child to and interupt them just to chat. It's just not nice.

I think this sums up my feelins on the subject rather well.







And I have no problem with telling a child who is wearing thin on me to go play, but the tricky part is that they don't always listen.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

So, let me get this straight. I am not trying to be sarcastic here.

A father is pushing a younger kid on the swings while his older kid swings. DD approaches and gets on the swing next to the older girl. I can see the two older kids talking and I presume DD is probably talking to the dad as well. Kids are swinging enthusiastically. No one is crying or yelling, certainly. Beautiful day at the park, yay.

And I'm supposed to go over and ask the dad if my DD is bothering him? Really??

Now, if I see DD engaging in long conversations (more than a few minutes) with people with babies or preverbal toddlers, I am more watchful. I may try to distract her a bit by offering a snack or seeing if she wants to play in a different area, though I am not going to make her leave the playground. But in this case...with two kids of the same age who are enjoying being together...well, I'm amazed that I am supposed to be worrying about this.

I am just boggled imagining this world where DD is not supposed to be playing with other kids at the park if she dares to sometimes speak to their parents as well. It certainly sucks to have an outgong child in such a world, though I guess playing is pretty easy if the child doesn't talk to adults? Or wait, am I supposed to ask other kids if she's bothering them, too, when they are happily playing?

I mean, when I think about it, I shouldn't realistically be worrying about this. Other kids at this park do exactly the same thing. I don't like it when parents of young kids sit in their cars and watch (that's just weird, and unsafe, IMO--I do always keep DD in my line of sight), but that's different.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
So, let me get this straight. I am not trying to be sarcastic here.

A father is pushing a younger kid on the swings while his older kid swings. DD approaches and gets on the swing next to the older girl. I can see the two older kids talking and I presume DD is probably talking to the dad as well. Kids are swinging enthusiastically. No one is crying or yelling, certainly. Beautiful day at the park, yay.

And I'm supposed to go over and ask the dad if my DD is bothering him? Really??

Now, if I see DD engaging in long conversations (more than a few minutes) with people with babies or preverbal toddlers, I am more watchful. I may try to distract her a bit by offering a snack or seeing if she wants to play in a different area, though I am not going to make her leave the playground. But in this case...with two kids of the same age who are enjoying being together...well, I'm amazed that I am supposed to be worrying about this.

I am just boggled imagining this world where DD is not supposed to be playing with other kids at the park if she dares to sometimes speak to their parents as well. It certainly sucks to have an outgong child in such a world, though I guess playing is pretty easy if the child doesn't talk to adults? Or wait, am I supposed to ask other kids if she's bothering them, too, when they are happily playing?

I mean, when I think about it, I shouldn't realistically be worrying about this. Other kids at this park do exactly the same thing. I don't like it when parents of young kids sit in their cars and watch (that's just weird, and unsafe, IMO--I do always keep DD in my line of sight), but that's different.

well.. In your first post about the park you made it seem as if there was one parent/child family swinging and your dd went over to swing too- and was having a conversation with the parent/child. That's a little bit different than 'dad was pushing younger sibling, same age kids were talking, I assume other parent is talking to kids'.

In the second case, I still feel like it would be polite to 'check in' which doesn't have to be asking if your child is _bothering_ anyone







Checking in can just be "hey, DD! I thought I'd come over and see if you needed anything? I see you have a new friend.. I'll be right over there.. let me know if you need pushing!"

As far as calling your dd over- why not? is it really that negative to want to ask your child how everything is going, especially if you're hanging out on the other side of the park and not interacting with her?

And no one is saying that children can't talk to people at the park- we feel that it is the parent's responsibility, however, to help guide their interactions and teach social cues. Most of us LIKE talking to kids at the park- but we all have our limits and days.. I'm quite surprised by all of the assumptions you've been making.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I said that about asking if she was bothering anyone because a PP said this:

Quote:

Getting close enough to read the other parent's body language would have been nice...or going over to ask him if she was bothering him etc. would have been the polite thing to do.
Honestly, I don't know who was talking and how the conversation went. I couldn't hear them. Knowing DD, I am 100% sure she was talking to everyone.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

Checking in can just be "hey, DD! I thought I'd come over and see if you needed anything? I see you have a new friend.. I'll be right over there.. let me know if you need pushing!"
My DD would look at me like I had grown two heads if I said this. I would also feel incredibly awkward and fake. She knew exactly where I was. I haven't pushed her on the swings in over a year and a half, and honestly I prefer it that way (where is my little DS going to be safe while I push her?). If she needs something, she tells me.

Quote:

As far as calling your dd over- why not? is it really that negative to want to ask your child how everything is going, especially if you're hanging out on the other side of the park and not interacting with her?
It's not NEGATIVE. It's just not something I would do. DD is a very assertive, opinionated, forthright, independent little person. Trust me, if there is a problem, she will let me know.


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## MamaDona (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
Getting close enough to read the other parent's body language would have been nice...or going over to ask him if she was bothering him etc. would have been the polite thing to do. I can usually tell if my kid is bugging someone, and then I put a stop to it....talk to my child about how it seems like the other person doesn't feel so much like talking right now etc. [/B]

I TOTALLY agree and think that this is the distinction, right here. I think that a big part of my job is to teach my kids to read and interpret social cues, and like any other skill developed in childhood, until they can, I am there to help them do that.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Well, I guess I thought I could tell when DD was bugging someone, too. There have been times when I thought she was and intervened. In this case I certainly didn't think she was doing anything problematic.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
So, let me get this straight. I am not trying to be sarcastic here.

A father is pushing a younger kid on the swings while his older kid swings. DD approaches and gets on the swing next to the older girl. I can see the two older kids talking and I presume DD is probably talking to the dad as well. Kids are swinging enthusiastically. No one is crying or yelling, certainly. Beautiful day at the park, yay.

And I'm supposed to go over and ask the dad if my DD is bothering him? Really??

Now, if I see DD engaging in long conversations (more than a few minutes) with people with babies or preverbal toddlers, I am more watchful. I may try to distract her a bit by offering a snack or seeing if she wants to play in a different area, though I am not going to make her leave the playground. But in this case...with two kids of the same age who are enjoying being together...well, I'm amazed that I am supposed to be worrying about this.

I am just boggled imagining this world where DD is not supposed to be playing with other kids at the park if she dares to sometimes speak to their parents as well. It certainly sucks to have an outgong child in such a world, though I guess playing is pretty easy if the child doesn't talk to adults? Or wait, am I supposed to ask other kids if she's bothering them, too, when they are happily playing?

I mean, when I think about it, I shouldn't realistically be worrying about this. Other kids at this park do exactly the same thing. I don't like it when parents of young kids sit in their cars and watch (that's just weird, and unsafe, IMO--I do always keep DD in my line of sight), but that's different.


I certainly don't think you needed to go over there at all. The only reason I would have interceded in that situation is if there were other kids waiting to swing. Then I will sometimes make ds stop swinging before he is done if he's been swinging a while.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
So, let me get this straight. I am not trying to be sarcastic here.

A father is pushing a younger kid on the swings while his older kid swings. DD approaches and gets on the swing next to the older girl. I can see the two older kids talking and I presume DD is probably talking to the dad as well. Kids are swinging enthusiastically. No one is crying or yelling, certainly. Beautiful day at the park, yay.

And I'm supposed to go over and ask the dad if my DD is bothering him? Really??

Now, if I see DD engaging in long conversations (more than a few minutes) with people with babies or preverbal toddlers, I am more watchful. I may try to distract her a bit by offering a snack or seeing if she wants to play in a different area, though I am not going to make her leave the playground. But in this case...with two kids of the same age who are enjoying being together...well, I'm amazed that I am supposed to be worrying about this.

I am just boggled imagining this world where DD is not supposed to be playing with other kids at the park if she dares to sometimes speak to their parents as well. It certainly sucks to have an outgong child in such a world, though I guess playing is pretty easy if the child doesn't talk to adults? Or wait, am I supposed to ask other kids if she's bothering them, too, when they are happily playing?

I mean, when I think about it, I shouldn't realistically be worrying about this. Other kids at this park do exactly the same thing. I don't like it when parents of young kids sit in their cars and watch (that's just weird, and unsafe, IMO--I do always keep DD in my line of sight), but that's different.

NO NO NO.. lol.. It's great for her to interact.. but if she stays there for like 30 minutes and doesn't stop talking the whole time to the parent while he is trying to take care of his babe.. or starts following him around the playground the entire time.. then YES, you should step in. I don't think ANY of us are saying we don't want any other kids around.. We just don't want to be the park babysitter.


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *east carolina* 
I am the mom who sits on the park bench and reads while my 4.5 year old DS runs around the playground interacting with kids. He doesn't need my help to swing, climb on the junglegym or play in the sandbox, so playground time is now my reading time.

Yeah, this is me, too. But I sometimes have to deal with somebody else's child who sits right next to me and won't stop talking to me while HER parent gets to read a good book. And I'm not a big fan of that.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *franklinmarxmom* 
We really struggle with this. It keeps us from going to our favorite park these days, because every time we go some lonely child or another follows us EVERYWHERE and won't stop talking. This particular park seems to attract a lot of kids on their own--sibling groups of 2-4 kids from ages 2-12, with no adult supervision. I feel bad for them, so I am not mean, but both DH and I work FT, so when we get a little park time we don't want to be watching a bunch of 5-10 yo kids while we play with our 2 yo. And our 2 yo doesn't want to play with them either! I don't know what to do about it, except not go to that park anymore, so we don't.









I guess I am just a meanie.

I don't think you are a meanie. I don't feel the OP is a meanie either. I don't think that just because you go to a public park that you should be expected to be social.







Also, just because I have children of my own doesn't mean I love and adore every one else's children. Sorry if that sounds mean but I'm just being honest. Sometimes other peoples' kids can get on my nerves.

I'd probably find another time of day or day of week to go to the park or start going to a different park. I've left parks on several occasions in past years when I didn't want to be there around overbearing or unruly children. Thankfully we have a lot of great parks in our area so I can pick and choose. I don't have to go to the same park every time.









Where is the parent of the children that are doing this? It concerns me that they would not be supervising their children more closely.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I am just boggled imagining this world where DD is not supposed to be playing with other kids at the park if she dares to sometimes speak to their parents as well. It certainly sucks to have an outgong child in such a world, though I guess playing is pretty easy if the child doesn't talk to adults? Or wait, am I supposed to ask other kids if she's bothering them, too, when they are happily playing?

My 7.5 y o DD is very outgoing, to the extreme. She makes friends at every park we go to and will play with any age child if they are willing to play with her. However, she will not follow kids around if they seem uninterested and she definitely does not approach other parents and talk to them or bother younger children/babies. She has never been one to do that because as her mother I wouldn't allow her to.







If she ever would have done that type of thing then I would have a talk with her later to let her know it isn't okay to bug others at the park.

My DD is actually irritated by children at the park a lot of times.







We were at a park the other day and went to the bathroom and came back and I was going to the car to get a water bottle and as I turned to come right back she was walking over to me and said she wanted to leave because two kids weren't doing the right thing on the slides (they were walking up them the wrong way) and their mother was doing nothing about it. DD wanted to slide the right way and it bothered her so we left.


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## graceomalley (Dec 8, 2006)

This doesn't just happen with little kids - I'm currently in a situation where, whenever I take my dogs to the dog park a 12 year old (unsupervised most of the time) girl latches onto me. Her dog attacks mine (her dog is nearly up to her ribs - it's a big, strong dog who isn't trained and she isn't able to control him adequately). She says inappropriate things and I'm uncomfortable around her. I have no idea how to ask her to leave me alone because she doesn't pick up on subtle (or not so subtle) hints. I've told her that it's unacceptable for her dog to act aggressively towards mine but her retort was 'he's just playing'. I told her that my dog's body language showed very clearly that it wasn't a game and she laughed.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

When I was a Nanny the park was the place we both went when we _wanted_ to be social. I would take her, she would talk to kids, I would talk to other Parents/Grandparents/Nannies. I met some great people this way including a wonderful Stay-At-Home-Granfather whose Granddaughter was just delightful. I learned about other activities in the community through these people that I could take E too. There were several play areas in the main park we went to, one targeted towards older children and one for the younger kids, as well as a walking trail where people without kids would walk, bring their dogs, etc. And no we did not have access to swings and other outdoor equipment at her home at the time, so if either of us was feeling antisocial we would have just stayed home to find something else to do.

For me as an adult I think I can read body language well enough to know if the Parent/Caregiver in the park does NOT want me talking to them about what time story hour is, etc. But I never expected E to be able to do the same if she was talking to another adult *I was always near her as she was so young, I was a hoverer







*, so that is where I stepped in. If I was picking up a vibe that the adult or child did not want to be bothered, I would redirect her. But if I wasn't getting that vibe, then we would play/interact together.

I understand that other people's children can be annoying to some. I am a pre-K teacher, so I can't imagine ever being annoyed by anyone's child, even the talking 100 words a minute kids. If I am ever able to have children of my own I am sure that I will be that Mom who is happily interacting with all of the kids









But I think the main issue here is adult supervision. The OP is more talking about children who don't seem to have any parent/caregivers near them. I think if your child/or child in your care if out of vision for a long period of time then that is a huge problem. I would worry too much about kidnapping, etc.







Just because a grown up is with a child at a park does not mean that that grown up is not a scary grownup. That is the argument for me.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
That's a great point and I always have some interaction with them. However, I do have 2 chronic conditions that cause me pain/fatigue. On my *good* days, I don't mind so much but there are days where I'm easily annoyed and don't have much to give. I just wish their parents would/could give them the attention they are craving.







I do feel sympathy for the little tykes.

I don't think it's always a matter of not getting attention from their parents. My kids get tons of attention, but they still crave attention from other people.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darcytrue* 
I'd probably find another time of day or day of week to go to the park or start going to a different park. I've left parks on several occasions in past years when I didn't want to be there around overbearing or unruly children. Thankfully we have a lot of great parks in our area so I can pick and choose. I don't have to go to the same park every time.









Where is the parent of the children that are doing this? It concerns me that they would not be supervising their children more closely.

Just this past week we started going to a different park and it's been pretty good so far







. We also have several nice parks in our area but somehow I had forgotten about this one. We even had a lovely conversation with a little girl named Claire the other day. She was adorable and not overbearing at all







. Her mom, uncle, cousin, and sisters were in clear view and smiled at us while we were chatting, no problem!

It also concerns me when I don't see a parent at all and a child has been hanging around for a long time AND practically climbing all over me and DS. For all anyone knows, I potentially *could* be someone dangerous instead of a regular mom, ya know??


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Whoa whoa whoa! I didn't think we were talking about ADULTS here. If you were at the park sitting on the bench reading, I'd never approach you. But do we really expect a 3yo to understand these same social cues about personl space and types of appropriate conversations?? And if a 3yo doesn't, am I expected to instantly run over and drag her away?

I have to say, I went to the park today and kept thinking of this thread, and it brought me down, man. My 19mo was happily playing with trucks with another little boy in one area and my 5yo was off on the other side of the park swinging. I could tell by looking over that she was engaging the other parent and kid in conversation. They were all swinging together for easily 20 minutes. So...that's not a short time, and I suppose someone could have thought she was "all alone" (though the park was not crowded and it would probably have been easy to connect the dots if you'd tried). I was in no way interacting with her. I was out of earshot, though within easy view. Should I have gone over and made her leave?? Should I have dragged my 19mo over to where she was??

So I have a very shy 5 year old and an under 2 who needs supervision, so I'm far more often the person fending off overly-glomming kids than the one wondering if my kid is bothering someone else.

Personally, I think if your DD was on the swings and talking to another kid anywhere in her age range, especially if she doesn't require pushing, then no problem. You could wave at her and have her wave back, which would clue the dad in that she's not totally unattended, but I don't think it's required. Likewise if your DD is playing with any kid and they're both running around the park together, that's great! Talking to the parent of a kid she's playing with is all good too.

Generally, I think you would see if your DD tended to be following around or skipping around a kid or adult who seemed to be beelining away, regardless of where you are in the park. There are a very few kids who will do this, but the vast, vast majority of extrovert kids will not. (And the kids who follow after having been told expressly that "we don't want to play with you right now, please let us play alone," and we've left the area, and their parent/caregiver never comes over to find out what's going on? Yes, I think those kids are neglected and mistreated.)

But if she was following around or sitting next to an adult with no kids in tow or with a young baby, I would personally go and stop her because it's almost assured that she is annoying them.

The main key IMO is if the child is playing WITH OTHER CHILDREN, even if the other parent is around and joins in conversations, then all is fine. If the child is attempting to play WITH THE OTHER PARENT ONLY, and ignoring the other children, then it's an annoyance and should be stopped. We go to the playground for the kids to play with other kids, not for me to play with other kids!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I would feel a bit awkward myself, but mostly would feel bad for the kid(s) that the parents aren't being more involved. If that seemed to be the problem. But I also know that parents get overwhelmed, especially if they have two or more kids, especially if the kid or kids are extroverts and the parents are introverts.
I think as long as the children also play on their own, it wouldn't be a huge issue.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

But if she was following around or sitting next to an adult with no kids in tow or with a young baby, I would personally go and stop her because it's almost assured that she is annoying them.
Almost assured? Really? I wouldn't even describe myself as a big "kid person," but it's definitely not "almost assured" that any kid who is talking to me, even while I am alone or with a preverbal baby, is annoying me. Far from it! When DD was a baby and young toddler I used to really enjoy talking to older kids at the park because it was interesting to me to see what older kids were like. Even now, with two kids of my own, I enjoy meeting other children. Kids are so different and interesting.

Not that I'm saying anyone should allow their kids to talk the ears off of adults, but I'm surprised by the assumption that child conversation = automatically annoying.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
Yeah, this is me, too. But I sometimes have to deal with somebody else's child who sits right next to me and won't stop talking to me while HER parent gets to read a good book. And I'm not a big fan of that.

Do you guys think maybe a big part of the annoyance-factor on this thread, among people writing posts like the above one, is that sometimes we just don't like communicating our own boundaries with others?

I can certainly sympathize with the above post. There are times when my own children are happily-engaged and playing with other children at the park, and I enjoy gettting to delve into a good book. I usually slip a book into my purse when leaving for the park, "just in case" the opportunity to read is presented to me.

I don't count on it, because sometimes my own children need lots of intensive attention. And when I'm pushing my own children on the swing I'm happy to push another child -- and if I'm playing a game or making clover-chains with my own, then the more the merrier, you know?

But if my own are doing fine and I'm wanting to sit off to the side and read my book, and some other child is wanting me to get up and help her with stuff, or is wanting attention from me, I feel absolutely fine just explaining to the child that I want to take a break and read my book right now.

As a previous poster has said (LynneS6 I think), children don't just come into the world automatically reading everyone's social cues. So sometimes they may need it "spelled out" a bit more than you'd need to do with an adult.

Although, I kid you not, I've occasionally encountered adults who I'm guessing were maybe non-readers themselves, who seemed to assume that since I had my nose in a book I must be bored, and they were doing me a favor by relentlessly chatting me up and giving me "more interesting" stuff to think about, LOL.

And even though I talk with my own children about boundaries and social cues, sometimes it helps when other people are able to politely express that they want some alone-time ... 'cause sometimes children see the adult being nice, polite, and interested -- and feel kinda like Mommy is disrupting a wonderful friendship.

So while I intervene, I trust the adults to express themselves too. I.e., a few months back after an appointment, I took my girls to play on the playground of our local children's hospital. It's a small playground, and no other kids were there at the moment, so I took advantage of the opportunity to walk laps around the play area while keeping an eye on my girls of course.

Well, off to the side of the playground one of the staff was taking his break at a picnic table. The girls said hi and he was friendly, and within a few seconds they were sitting at the table chatting with him. So of course I went over and told them he probably wanted some quiet time to rest before he went back to work.

And the gentleman said they weren't bothering him at all, and he was happy to talk with them. So I said great, if you do get tired just say so, and continued my laps while of course keeping them in full view, and walking directly next to the table about every minute or so while walking my laps.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I have no problem communicating my boundaries- with others' children or adults, but I have been on the receiving end of blatant disregard of my boundaries. A few weeks back, DH, the kids and I are at the beach on a Sunday morning. My kids are 20 ft away playing nicely and independently while DH and I try and read the SUnday paper. Some of the kids' beach toys are in front of us because they are not being used at that moment. A 2.5-3 yo comes up and starts playing with the toys literally at our feet. He's making noises and such (as most young children do), kicking up sand etc and whatnot. DH tells the boy the toys are resting right now and puts them under our chairs and tells him he needs to go with his parent. Said parent is 10 ft away gabbing with his friends and kind of keeping an eye on the kid (if he was really paying attention he would've intervened once the sand is flying I'd hope). Finally, the dad gets the kid to go to the water with him. Well, that didn't last and the kid was back at our feet asking if the toys were done resting not five minutes later. Dad was STILL in the water (which given it was low tide was probably a good 50-100 yards away from us) for another 20 minutes! It was a SUnday morning- why should DH and I have to babysit this kid while dad enjoy a nice swim in the ocean?!!!! And even though we told him the toys were resting, he proceeded to take them out even though they were "put away" and we kept telling him!

We communicated to the child that the toys were not available for his use, the dad took him away, but I guess it was too much effort to enforce NO with this kid. I was (and am still a bit) mad that on my sunday morning DH and I are de facto watching this kid because his dad won't enforce a boundary we communicated and attempted to enforce multiple times. What else could we have done shy of packing up our family and leaving?


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Okay, my kid is the one who gloms onto other moms.







He really does get LOTS of attention at home... he is just a major extrovert and wants to talk to EVERYONE, and if someone replies to him or shows an interest... well, he thinks they are just as interested in everything he has to say as they are.

I just kind of keep calling him over to me and tell him to go play with the other kids, that the mamas are there to watch their kids, not entertain him.







But, really, other kids don't usually care to hear everything he has to say, and adults try to be polite, so I can see why he does it.

When other kids come up to me, I will be polite, but distant. I don't ask additional questions or really engage them too much, unless I'm prepared to get into a lengthy discussion, in case they are like my son. Actually, I would probably redirect them and say "Hey, have you met my son, A? I think he'd love to talk to you!"


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nim* 
It IS frustrating for me when we're at parks and other parents just aren't paying attention when their kids are acting badly at the park. They just assume if there's one adult that IS watching-its free leave for them to cop out and go talk on their cell phones. >_<

Or, they just think kids should work some things out for themselves and don't feel a need to hover over every interaction.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
What else could we have done shy of packing up our family and leaving?

I would have put the toys away in a bag, or asked the boy to move a little farther away from you with the toys so that you wouldn't be affected by the flying sand as he played.

I can sympathize with the overall situation in your post, but when we bring sand toys to the park or beach, they're for everyone -- I'd feel bad leaving them out in plain sight (even under your chair) but telling other kids they're off-limits.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I would have put the toys away in a bag, or asked the boy to move a little farther away from you with the toys so that you wouldn't be affected by the flying sand as he played.

I can sympathize with the overall situation in your post, but when we bring sand toys to the park or beach, they're for everyone -- I'd feel bad leaving them out in plain sight (even under your chair) but telling other kids they're off-limits.

Yes, I agree with this. And of course I DO check with toy-owners if my children are wanting to pick up toys they see out at the park or pool or whatever, and I would certainly enforce boundaries if the other parent said No the toys are resting right now (although this statement kind of implies that after they're "rested" they can be played with again, so it's not very clear that what you really mean is No you can't play with them ever) --

but when my children were younger, enforcing this boundary might have entailed US having to leave simply because at a certain age it is very hard for some children to see interesting toys out, not being used, and just leave them alone.

Putting the toys up so they're not accessible makes a lot more sense than expecting parents to enforce your boundaries -- and really from my pool experiences, there seems to be kind of an unwritten rule that if I'm not playing with my toy, you can play with it and vice-versa. So most kids are used to this kind of free interchange.

And if it's not the toy-use that bothers you -- but just the getting hit by sand, then creating a little distance as limabean suggested makes everyone happy and everyone can stay and have a good time.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree. I bring toys to the beach for my kids to play with, not for anyone who might be there for the day (and yes I used to share, but then my kids' toys would be unavailable for them to use when they want to, which is not something that is easily predictable for a two yo, or in some cases we have had toys returned to us broken with not so much as a sorry, or we have even had toys just left on the beach for the tide to take them away and never be returned to us as those who borrowed them had already left the beach)

DH asked me what are we teaching our kids if they feel entitled to use any toy on the beach that they want, even if they don't belong to them. Would I as an adult go up to a complete stranger and say "hey, that's a really cool beach chair, can I borrow it?" or "hey that sandwich looks divine, mind if I have some?" I'm not trying to be stingy, really, but I am trying to remember that I am raising children to someday be adults, not to be perpetually children. I don't see any reason why a toy can't be off limits if others' oreos, candy, soda, happy meals and what not (which I'[m sure is equally as inviting to kids) are as easily off limits. If we don't create boundaries, how will our kids ever learn to respect them (or enforce them or even create them)?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I actually am on pjs' side in this one (funnily enough). I think what she is describing is definitely over the line--for one thing, I certainly don't think it's okay to be that far away from a young toddler anyplace there is water. For another, I absolutely would intervene if I saw my child repeatedly going after other people's toys after they had been put away. For a third, I do not let my kid talk to people who are reading.

Quote:

And even though I talk with my own children about boundaries and social cues, sometimes it helps when other people are able to politely express that they want some alone-time ... 'cause sometimes children see the adult being nice, polite, and interested -- and feel kinda like Mommy is disrupting a wonderful friendship.
DING! Yes, I think this is a really important part of the equation, too. It kind of sucks to be the heavy when the other adult is not expressing any concerns, and frankly I am not a mind-reader either, you know? This is another reason why I don't at all mind if an adult politely excuses him/herself.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I guess I'll have to agree to disagree. I bring toys to the beach for my kids to play with, not for anyone who might be there for the day (and yes I used to share, but then my kids' toys would be unavailable for them to use when they want to, which is not something that is easily predictable for a two yo, or in some cases we have had toys returned to us broken with not so much as a sorry, or we have even had toys just left on the beach for the tide to take them away and never be returned to us as those who borrowed them had already left the beach)

DH asked me what are we teaching our kids if they feel entitled to use any toy on the beach that they want, even if they don't belong to them. Would I as an adult go up to a complete stranger and say "hey, that's a really cool beach chair, can I borrow it?" or "hey that sandwich looks divine, mind if I have some?" I'm not trying to be stingy, really, but I am trying to remember that I am raising children to someday be adults, not to be perpetually children. I don't see any reason why a toy can't be off limits if others' oreos, candy, soda, happy meals and what not (which I'[m sure is equally as inviting to kids) are as easily off limits. If we don't create boundaries, how will our kids ever learn to respect them (or enforce them or even create them)?

I think that the habit of bringing communal toys to parks, beaches, pools, etc. is so common that some kids just assume that toys that aren't being used are available. I know that's how we operate, and most families we come into contact with in those places seem to have the same loose rules about it -- they encourage my kids to use unattended toys.

It's fine for you to not wish to let other kids use your family's sand toys; however, it would make things easier for you if you put the toys out of sight when your kids aren't using them. Seems easy enough to do (or even have your kids do before they go off to do something else), and then you could sit and enjoy the paper without interruption.

ETA: Regarding the boundaries issue, the kids we've come across haven't had a problem understanding that while the toys are for everyone, my kids' lunches aren't -- it's just never been an issue. Kids are pretty savvy about that kind of stuff. And I just can't buy into the fact that sharing sand toys as kids will lead to adults who are unable to respect, enforce, or create boundaries, so I can't comment on that part. As I said, whether to share the toys is your call, but it seems like rather than leaving them out and getting irritated, you'd just put them away and make the day go more smoothly.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
If we don't create boundaries, how will our kids ever learn to respect them (or enforce them or even create them)?

I'm certainly not advocating "no boundaries." I believe in asking if we can use a toy rather than just letting my kids grab it and start playing with it.

It's just that in our experience in the the Midwest where we live, while people may ask -- it's usually just kind of the social norm that if your child brings toys and is not using them, it's pretty much okay for others to play with them until the owner wants them back.

As far as the toy not being available when my child wants it, I have no problem with one of my children letting another child know she wants her toy back now. And sometimes the child won't hand it back, and I've gone over and nicely said that my child would like to play with her toy now.

And then they've always given it back.









I guess there is always some risk of things getting broken -- if not by other kids, then by my own kids. But most of our toys are inexpensive and easy to replace. Of course, not living by the beach we've never had a toy get washed out to sea, so I can't speak to that issue ...

ETA: Just as I allow my own kids transition-time, I think it makes sense to allow kids borrowing our toys a chance to make the transition. As in, "In a few minutes, I want to play with my toy again." Just to clarity that I don't mean we just snatch it right back.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
Said parent is 10 ft away...


Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
for one thing, I certainly don't think it's okay to be that far away from a young toddler anyplace there is water.

Really? Even at a beach where, usually, families are well back from the water? My kids and I frequently go to the beach, and there are plenty of times when even my 16-month-old DD is 10 feet away from me.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

No, 10 feet is fine, of course! It was this part I was talking about:

Quote:

Finally, the dad gets the kid to go to the water with him. Well, that didn't last and the kid was back at our feet asking if the toys were done resting not five minutes later. Dad was STILL in the water (which given it was low tide was probably a good 50-100 yards away from us) for another 20 minutes!
I know the kid was on dry land, but if dad was 100 yards away I assume the kid could run out into the water and get pretty far with dad still waaaay far away. I would never leave my toddler on the beach unattended while I swam! Yoiks.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Almost assured? Really? I wouldn't even describe myself as a big "kid person," but it's definitely not "almost assured" that any kid who is talking to me, even while I am alone or with a preverbal baby, is annoying me. Far from it! When DD was a baby and young toddler I used to really enjoy talking to older kids at the park because it was interesting to me to see what older kids were like. Even now, with two kids of my own, I enjoy meeting other children. Kids are so different and interesting.

Not that I'm saying anyone should allow their kids to talk the ears off of adults, but I'm surprised by the assumption that child conversation = automatically annoying.









I'm completely an introvert, but I don't mind some kid-chat here and there if I'm pushing DD on the swings or something. I think that's probably the difference, and it's fundamental. Extroverts tend to annoy introverts because we're not bored, we're thinking and we will find extrovert chatter annoying. Extroverts think introverts are standoffish or impolite because they don't do the chatter and approach thing. I literally cannot imagine *wanting* to have anyone come and sit next to me and start a random talk on a park bench, regardless of their age. Location does make a difference, I consider the bench sort of a "rest" zone.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

FWIW, I consider myself an introvert and test as an introvert on personality tests.







You must be much more of one than me, though.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I test about right smack dab in the middle on introvert/extrovert tests -- slightly leaning to the extraverted side.

It's funny ... there was this one test where I had to choose if I'd rather read a book or be with people, and I was thinking, Hmm WHAT book and WHICH people? And then it also depends on my mood that day.

Generally I'm happy to chat if I DON'T have my nose in a book -- but I do feel adults are rude if they keep talking to me when they can see that I'm reading. I mean, if I'm interested enough I'll put up my book and talk to the person -- but if I make the minimal polite response, and then keep trying to read and they keep talking, that's irritating.

But of course I don't hold kids to that same standard -- as I've already said, I also don't have a problem with nicely telling a child that I just want to take a break and read my book right now.

If I see my children chattering away to someone trying to read, of course I'll go over and tell them that people can't talk and read at the same time. But if it happens to me, I don't have a problem with dealing with it myself if the parent seems oblivious.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
IDH asked me what are we teaching our kids if they feel entitled to use any toy on the beach that they want, even if they don't belong to them. Would I as an adult go up to a complete stranger and say "hey, that's a really cool beach chair, can I borrow it?" or "hey that sandwich looks divine, mind if I have some?" I'm not trying to be stingy, really, but I am trying to remember that I am raising children to someday be adults, not to be perpetually children. I don't see any reason why a toy can't be off limits if others' oreos, candy, soda, happy meals and what not (which I'[m sure is equally as inviting to kids) are as easily off limits. If we don't create boundaries, how will our kids ever learn to respect them (or enforce them or even create them)?

I agree 100%. Sharing has a time and place but the beach free for all with any and all strangers? No way. I also don't think this family should have to leave the beach or even move because Dad isn't paying attention to his toddler. I would have tried to get Dad's attention and told him to come get his child.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
I agree 100%. Sharing has a time and place but the beach free for all with any and all strangers? No way. I also don't think this family should have to leave the beach or even move because Dad isn't paying attention to his toddler. I would have tried to get Dad's attention and told him to come get his child.

Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, and no one should "have" to make their toys "free for all" just because it's the cultural norm (at least it is here in Kansas City) that if toys are out in plain view in a public setting like a park or a pool, if they are not being used it's usually fine for others to play with them.

As I've already said, if my children want to play with other toys they see not in use, we do ask and if we were ever told no (so far we haven't been), then we wouldn't play with them. And of course I make sure they're returned promptly when the owner wants them back.

But when one or the other of my girls has been very small, keeping them from playing with toys that were just laying out in plain view would very likely have meant us having to leave.

And, yeah, I guess that's not the problem of the other parent who doesn't want to bother to make the toys inaccessable to toddlers who have a hard time with impulse-control.

It just seems relatively-easy to make stuff inaccessible if you don't want to share it. I realize that if you've never had "that" sort of toddler, it's easy to view the impulsive-grabbing as evidence that the parent is falling down in her job.

And to feel that it's unfair for you to have to put toys up just because that other parent hasn't been mentoring her child adequately.

I'm just saying that having had impulsive toddlers myself, this feels like a very uncompassionate attitude.

And, again, Latte Mama, I don't think it's mean of you to not want to have to take care of other people's kids. I've already shared how I've sometimes told a child (not my own) who wanted my help that I'm taking a break; I think it's perfectly reasonable if I don't want to get up until one of my own children needs me.

But the thing about the toys just seems really harsh to me. Of course, I'm not talking about someone wanting to play with a toy that your child is currently playing with -- and I also think if someone requests a toy that he's not playing with, there's nothing wrong with warning them that he may want it back in a hurry.

But, really, how hard is it to bring the toys in some kind of bag that you can zip them back up in when they're not in use, if you want to keep them off-limits to others?

I mean, I realize it's your own choice if you don't -- but then when you are going against the cultural norm by leaving the toys out when you don't want to share them, why complain when you know some kids are always going to be grabbing them and trying to play with them?

It seems like it would be easier on you (general you), as well as the parents with impulsive children, to just zip em up out of sight til your child wants them again -- but you are intentionally making it harder on yourself, just to make some social statement.









I guess some would say making the statement is the only way to change the current norm? I guess that makes sense, if you' (general you) are willing to expend the energy.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
But, really, how hard is it to bring the toys in some kind of bag that you can zip them back up in when they're not in use, if you want to keep them off-limits to others?

.

Well *I* probably would keep them put away







. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'd have toys strewn all over the place while wagging my finger and frowning at toddlers passing by trying to pick them up. However, as we've seen in these threads, putting toys away doesn't necessarily stop kids from taking.

In pjs scenario, I think the sitch would have been best resolved if Dad would have gotten his child. The toys were a distraction but the parent needed to be supervising the toddler.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Well *I* probably would keep them put away







. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'd have toys strewn all over the place while wagging my finger and frowning at toddlers passing by trying to pick them up. However, as we've seen in these threads, putting toys away doesn't necessarily stop kids from taking.

Thanks for clarifying! I'm sorry I read you wrong.

Quote:

In pjs scenario, I think the sitch would have been best resolved if Dad would have gotten his child. The toys were a distraction but the parent needed to be supervising the toddler.
Well, I may have been reading pjs wrong, too -- but it seemed like the problem was that they (understandably) didn't like getting hit with flying sand, so it would have been easy enough to just have the child move farther away to play with the toys.

But instead the husband decided to tell the child the toys were resting, which probably gave him the impression that once they'd rested they'd have energy to play with him again.







And putting them under the chair where they were still visible and accessible, simply provided too much temptation for this particular toddler.

I agree that the ideal thing would have been for the other parent to be more involved. I.e. if I were the other parent in that situation I'd have been with my toddler, asked if it was okay for him to use the toys, and monitored his playing and moved him farther away myself if he were flipping sand on people.

But I am ever and always encountering children whose parents have a more lax approach than I do. If there are ways to accommodate these children without sacrificing my own (or my children's) comfort, it's just easier and more sociable to do that I think.

And Latte Mama from what you've shared it sounds like you and I have similar views in terms of maximizing enjoyement and minimizing hard feelings for everyone.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that making toys truly inaccessible if we don't want to share them -- or giving a little guidance (even if we think the other parent should be stepping up to the plate but isn't) when we don't mind sharing the toys but just don't want to get hit with flying sand, dirt, balls, whatever --

This seems much kinder TO OURSELVES (and not just to the other families) than standing on some sort of a principle regarding how other parents should be guiding their children not to use toys that don't belong to them, etcetera.

It's kind of like a grandma not feeling she should have to put up her breakables (my own mom resented my insistence when we were visiting that she not lay my dad's pills out on the table in easy reach of my toddler, 20 minutes before Dad took them with his meal) cause she feels like kids need to learn not to grab things things that aren't theirs, and it's their parent's job to teach them, not everyone else's job to make allowances.

I guess we are all different in terms of when we think standing on principle is worth the stress, and when it isn't. Pjs's situation is one where I think it's not worth it, but undoubtedly others will disagree. Maybe it's partly that I'm getting old and tired. It's easier to go with the flow than try to change it in this one area (plus I've been the parent with the grabby toddlers myself







).


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:

Of course everyone has a right to their opinion, and no one should "have" to make their toys "free for all" just because it's the cultural norm (at least it is here in Kansas City) that if toys are out in plain view in a public setting like a park or a pool, if they are not being used it's usually fine for others to play with them.
I wouldn't say it is the cultural norm here that toys brought to the beach are up for grabs as long as they are not being used.

As for putting them up, putting them under the chairs which my husband and I are sitting in seems to make them pretty off limits to me (and recalling my childhood, I would have thought so as a youngster as well). As for putting them in a bag, well that would be one more thing *I* have to carry. I have three kids (7,5 and 2) and another on the way (I'm nearing the end) and when we go to the beach if you want it, you carry it, and yes even my two year old carries the toys she wants to bring. I would have to have each child bring their own bag which is then another thing I need to keep track of and probably make it more difficult for each of them to carry their stuff.

I'm not trying to be uncompassionate towards those with impulsive toddlers, but as I mentioned before I have three young kids, another on the way, we homeschool and DH is the *only* support I have and thus the only break I get, if you can call sharing the responsibility of taking care of the kids 24/7 a break. I'm just saying that when out of pure necessity for my own sanity I have taught my kids to play nicely and independently amongst themselves at the beach and they bring a bucket or a truck, I shouldn't then have to sacrifice the only "break" I get, if you can even call it that, because it's too tiring for another parent to keep an impulsive toddler occupied anywhere but three feet in front of me while I'm trying to read and have an enjoyable morning with my family. This isn't the only time this has happened to me, I guess having 3 kids and another on the way screams "I am a capable and competent child care giver, leave your kid under my supervision while you chat, swim or heck even run to the snack bar to grab a bite to eat"

And the flying sand wasn't just the only problem. We're at the beach on a Sunday morning and there are probably 5-6 other families/groups there. For all intents and purposes the beach is empty. Why should I have to have my space/time/attention/peace invaded by a toddler who doesn't belong to me when there is literally a wide open beach?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

pjs, I guess you are already handling things in the way that seems easiest and least stressful to you.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I wouldn't say it is the cultural norm here that toys brought to the beach are up for grabs as long as they are not being used.

I don't think of them as being "up for grabs" either. As I've said, if my kids see someone else's toys not in use and want to play with them, we ask -- but in one of your previous posts, you seemed to be likening this to an adult asking to borrow things from a complete stranger.

I just don't see it as the same with children. And I think one reason that sharing toys in public places has become the norm at least where I live, is that as parents we've all had the experience of our child really wanting to try out a cool toy someone else has, so most of us decide to make our stuff available 'cause we know that next time it'll be our child hankering after someone else's stuff.

But actually when you come right down to it, if I'd brought a spare lawn chair that no one else was using, I honestly wouldn't mind sharing it with a complete stranger. Just as I wouldn't have a problem with giving candy to an adult trick-or-treater.

I just wouldn't feel comfortable, personally, being the adult asking to borrow a lawn chair from a stranger, or holding out my bag for Halloween candy. Because it's unusual, and I know some adults would see me in a critical light.


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