# Anyone else ever feel like "expatting?" (Cross posted from /Dads/)



## zaadad (Feb 29, 2004)

Hello all,

I wonder if I am alone in feeling like this or if other people feel the same way.

I grew up in Brasil (lived there 10 years), came back to the states as a teenager and have lived here since. Went to college, started working, got married, had kids--all the while feeling like a stranger in the very country I was born in.

If DW gave the consent (doesn't want to leave her family--understandable), I would pack up my family, sell the house and move out of the US.

I don't know if it is b/c I grew up in another country (to me the US is a foreign country), hate the current political agenda/climate, or if it is b/c I really don't agree w/ the "american way" but I would love to have my children grow up someplace else and help them realize that the US isn't necessarily the "best" place in the world.

I know and understand that any other place in the world is going to have its problems, but there is just something in me that makes me embarrased to me an American.

I don't mean to offend anyone, just curious as to how others felt,

Curtis


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## Hilary Briss (Nov 22, 2001)

I think about it every day. I really cherish the seven years I spent away from this cesspool of a country.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I don't. I'm a first generation American in my father's family. I know that my grandparents and my father sacrificed a lot for me to be an American, and I'm proud of what they did. My father worked hard in the sixties and seventies to change this country, and I think he did in many ways. I'm proud of what he did to make my world, and my country, more tolerable, and I hope one day my children will be proud of me for the same reasons.

I've traveled a lot and have a pretty good idea of what the rest of the world has to offer. I've never been anywhere that I thought I would be able to call home the way I do the US. Yes, I'm disgusted with the state of our government right now, but that just motivates me to change it. I have a voice that I'm not afraid to use, and I would never take my voice away from the place I feel needs it the most. I won't abandon others who cannot leave. Not everyone has the financial and emotional resources needed to move to another country.

I'm not embarrassed by my country or the president. I didn't vote for him. I don't take responsibility for what he does because I do everything within my power to make sure his impact is as minimal as possible. I like being an American, but that doesn't mean I think that I'm superior to anyone who isn't. I would expect that most people like being whatever nationality they are. It made me who I am, and I think I have a lot to be proud of.


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

Think about it everyday. My 15 year old is always asking about it. She loved her time overseas. She would like to go back to Indonesia or Saudi Arabia where she spent half her childhood, but Bush has made getting a job overseas impossible.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

We think about it all the time. It's a serious consideration. Although now I'm planning on going back to school, so not sure how that would be effected. I really am unhappy here. And I was born and raised here.


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## CanOBeans (Apr 7, 2002)

I know what you are talking about. I grew up outside the US (Germany) and only moved to the States for college. Although I went to school with primarily Americans, in an American military base setting, it took me a REALLY long time -- like 15 years! -- to feel comfortable in the US. And I always felt a pull from Europe, returning to live in Germany for a year after college.

Now I live in France, and I really don't miss much about the US. There are things that I think are nuts here but my quality of life is so much greater, and I just feel at home. I'm most pleased about bringing my kids up overseas, giving them the opportunities to learn another language and culture. I don't reject the US, it just isn't where I want to be -- especially during the current political/election crapola! There is still so much I love about the US culture -- but it isn't enough to keep me there. I'm open to someday feeling differently, and I can understand why others would never want to live anywhere else.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

My husband and I talk about living in another country at some point. We could right now, but it would be as part of the military and that isn't the experience I really want. There is a very real possibility that we would live in France or Italy for a while when the kids are in high school, but I would not ever leave for good.


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## jeyer (Oct 27, 2003)

HA. I've been making comments along this line recently. Bush's policies are having horrible consequences for average Americans like me. A short list:

* More air and water pollution

* Threatening cuts in Social Security

* Starved state government budgets resulting in cuts to necessary services, like police and fire protection

* Widening gap between rich and poor, exacerbated by his tax cuts, which are primarily benefitting the very wealthy.

His economic policies, in particular, are very dangerous to the middle class. Where will it end? He has moved our tax system toward one where the American aristocracy gets richer and richer, and where the majority of the government's income will come in the form of a "salary tax." See this Newsweek article for more: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4660655/

I am so disgusted. If it weren't so darn cold there, my family and I would move to Montreal!!! Hell, maybe we will anyway.


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## madrone (Jun 25, 2002)

I did ex-pat. Couldn't quite handle there anymore. I don't think I will return even if the dem's take over after the next election either. Still won't get rid of some of the things I really dislike about the US. Here, I'm almost embarrased to say I'm American.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Yes, I plan to leave, more because I think I will have to than because I want to. I know some here think I'm paranoid, but I'm feeling very much like 10-15 years from now (if it takes that long) they will say I had forsight and got out while the gettin was good. The question is now one of when rather than if.... and a much smaller question of where.


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## madrone (Jun 25, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mahdokht_
*I know some here think I'm paranoid, but I'm feeling very much like 10-15 years from now (if it takes that long) they will say I had forsight and got out while the gettin was good.*
I've already been told that mahdokht. If you are going, would you consider coming over to Brittany? I would love your company here.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by madrone_
*I've already been told that mahdokht. If you are going, would you consider coming over to Brittany? I would love your company here.*
That's sweet, but, umm the French don't love Arabs. I actually talked to my husband about moving to France. He grew up between to nations that were colonized by France and French is his mother tongue. He grew up in French boarding schools. His response "i'll never live in France...too racist."

Besides, what if I need to work or send my kids to school, they wouldn't be able to wear hijab. So France is out.








The truth is that we will probably end up in Canada, South America or a middle eastern country.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

mahdokht,

Please come to Canada! I would love to have you as a neighbour!


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

My brother in law lives in Turkey and my father in law is seriously considering moving there......


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

We did it. I moved to the US when I was 20 to be with Dh, and I loved it there in many ways, was happy to be away from grimy, miserable old Thatcher's Britain, and thought I'd never return. But I burnt out on it; US culture, politics. Things that seemed fun at 20 looked really terrifying and depressing at 30 with a new baby.

Sept 11th was the final crunch for us, at it was for so many people. Not so much the fear factor, but realising again how despised the US is by so much of the world, and why, and not wanting our son to grow up as a part of that. We also knew it was going to be a catastrophe when Bush basically got free reign and spending power to wage wars all over the place.

Dh, who has been a political peace activist his whole life, finally completely burnt out on it all and felt even more strongly about getting out than I did, even though he's American and his family is there. After 15 yrs of his work he feels there is so little hope for Us policy ever changing for the better. His mom gave him a hard time and the whole thing about how America is the best place to grow up. We enlightened her with a few facts, and she came around.

So now we're in england, which is far from great politically, but oh boy it is SOOOOOO much better. I could write pages about that. It has changed drastically since I was last here, and also I now appreciate things I never did. And I love being close to europe and the rest of the world and being surrounded by other languages and cultures. I finally feel 'home' and can say I am happy to raise my child here. I never could say that with certainty in the US.


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## madrone (Jun 25, 2002)

Mahdokht - you are right unfurtunately about the French being racist towards Arabs when it comes to Arabs living in France. There are really lots of areas of France though and the mentality really exists in the areas with large Arab communities and not so much in areas without. Something I find sad about France. But with the area that I am in, I really hear fewer racist comments here than I did in the US. It's really when I go to the south that I hear and see a lot. And get really irritated.

Edited to Add: At least France is one of the European countries that isn't supporting an illegal war. The French hostage was released about the same time as the Italian one was killed.


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

hmmm, gettin' the hell outta' dodge seems to be in the air. i have been thinking a lot about this lately and just hadn't gotten around to starting a thread about it.

my question is where do i go? i have felt a strong pull to south america for some reason. i'm really curious about aussiemum's life in austrailia too, where are you aussiemum? you should have something to say on this subject.









i just want to be sure of where i go before i pack up and leave. there are so many things to be taken into consideration...


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

I have thought about it so much and if there was some way that I could pack up my family, my sister's family and my mother and go, I would. I just want the experience of living in a country that isn't hated by much of the rest of the world. Oh and so many other reasons. My biggest problem is I have a terrible time with other languages. I have been studying Spanish for longer than I care to admit (with a summer in Guatemala for immersion) and I still suck.

edited for spelling...


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## Joyce in the mts. (Jan 12, 2003)

The bones of my dad, my grandparents from Russia, my sister too....are all here. Can't leave. Can't give up. Woody Guthrie said, "This land is made for you and me", not "this land was made ONLY for us right-thinking people". It's my flag too, even if it is a gaudy looking piece of cloth that currently means some very negative things to many!

I don't blame folks for leaving or wanting to leave... but someone has to stay and fight...and I intend to stay long as I can, till (gods forbid) it gets so dangerous that I HAVE to leave. Even then...I am not sure I would.

Besides, what country would want me, my 2dogs/1cat, my dh (obviously NOT in order of importance), my 3 adult kids?...I won't leave without 'em all!

Joyce in the mts.


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

that is what makes me nervous as all hell. right now i feel that it is too dangerous to live in this country. it isn't safe to say what you think.

the other day i was trying to explain to dd what communism was. she said "but isn't that what we have here?" it is a very fine line.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

oh, absolutely!


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Joyce in the mts._
*The bones of my dad, my grandparents from Russia, my sister too....are all here. Can't leave. Can't give up. Woody Guthrie said, "This land is made for you and me", not "this land was made ONLY for us right-thinking people". It's my flag too, even if it is a gaudy looking piece of cloth that currently means some very negative things to many!

I don't blame folks for leaving or wanting to leave... but someone has to stay and fight...and I intend to stay long as I can, till (gods forbid) it gets so dangerous that I HAVE to leave. Even then...I am not sure I would.

Besides, what country would want me, my 2dogs/1cat, my dh (obviously NOT in order of importance), my 3 adult kids?...I won't leave without 'em all!

Joyce in the mts.*
Joyce, until recently, this was the biggest obsticle to my decision. You are right, someone does have to stay and protest. If the Right continues to gain ground there will be no one left. A part of me feels guilty for going but I had a lot of factors to weigh in. Maybe if my kids were older I'd feel differently.

God Bless the Freedom Fighters.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Dang, I wish I had married a dual national of a country I actually want to move to. My dh is also an Israeli citizen, but I don't want to move there (no offense to anyone that is).

So where the heck can I go. Apparently I don't quite qualify as political refugee if I'm American, boy is that unfair!!!! Have they seen what is happening here???


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

I agree with NM if your so unhappy here you should move to a place that suits you better. It's a free world after all.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sleeping queen_
*I agree with NM if your so unhappy here you should move to a place that suits you better. It's a free world after all.*
You will pry my America, the America that my grandparents brought their children here seeking, from my cold, dead hands, sleeping queen. Pigs will fly and satan will catch a snowball with his bare hands the day I leave this country to those who seek to destroy it by serving themselves.


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Mothra, It is a free world and people should be where they want to be and where they are happy. You forget it is my America too and I happen to love it here and like it just the way it is!!!


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

Then maybe you'll be the one high-tailing it out of here come Novemeber.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorists but sometimes I worry that it doesn't matter what we do, those in power will keep the power if it takes the Supreme Court backing them up or computerized voting machines that don't create a paper trail. I don't trust that the other side is playing fair and that's what scares me...

But I do agree that it is the responsibility of those of us that disagree to fight for what we believe is right.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

That isn't what NM said at all so please don't put words in her mouth.

She happens to be a very nice lady.


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## mrzmeg (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:

I agree with NM if your so unhappy here you should move to a place that suits you better. It's a free world after all.
Don't mean to be rude, but do you have any idea how difficult that is to do (at least, legally)? We would love to leave, but my dh and I are young (ie, without lotsa job experience or tons of money) and it is nigh impossible for us to get working papers or permanent resident status in any of the countries we've looked at.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sleeping queen_
*I agree with NM if your so unhappy here you should move to a place that suits you better. It's a free world after all.*
If you were capable of a closer reading, you would read that he stays only because of me (his wife). And, it's people like you he's desperate to get away from. So, thanks for reaffirming that for us.







:

Quote:

I don't think you'll offend anyone with your opinion on America, here Curtis you have a right to voice your feelings ......I hope you learn to adjust and stay here (as Joyce said) and to work on the issues you would like to see changed. To me that is a privledged thing to be able to do.....to be able to have the freedom to produce change if one so desires.....first by casting your vote in elections.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's difficult to change a country, though, that seems to be heading in a dangerous direction. It is a very priviledged thing to be able to interact with gov't in such a way as we do here. I think, though, that the current polictical climate of those around us (we live in a predominantly conservative area) may be wearing on my husband, who has seen, at length, a different view of the US than one that Americans who grew up here have gotten.

*sigh*

Feeling a little snarky, mama-bear-ish,
Amanda


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## Dakota's Mom (Apr 8, 2003)

I would leave in a heartbeat if I had: 1) the money to go and 2) dh would go with me. This is not the country I want to raise my son in. I've lived here all of my life and I do not like it. But it's not always esy to leave. At my age, I don't think I'd fair well in Canada or elsewhere living in a tent. But if things keep going like they are, the dy may come that I have to leave. This country really sucks any more.

Kathi


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## IslandMamma (Jun 12, 2003)

Mothra!!!!!

I daydream about running away, but there's a fighter in me, too. My (maternal) people were here before Columbus came and started the whole decline, and I for one intend to stay.

HOWEVER>..tying in to the draft thread, I will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to keep my baby safe. Nothing is more important than that to me.

I love my home. I will not rest quietly while greed destroys it.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

I was living in England on 9/11 and I hated living there. I was threatened just for being American!!! And that was BEFORE 9/11! I had no idea that even the brits hated us Americans.
Very sad.

Liz
I'd move back though but for an entirely different reason. heh.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

We want to leave, but don't know where we can go. Dh is a social studies teacher- not really in demand in other countries, or here for that matter







But, if anyone in Canada or France or England or Ireland or the Netherlands has room for us.....we'll come!


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Never. I couldn't leave this country. My maternal and paternal great and/or grand parents made huge sacrafices to come here.

In addition to that, I always think of what a friend of mine who is Native American said to this question, "Where would I go?"

I can understand leaving. I really can. Especially if you are gay or lesbian or if you feel your child is in danger. But I have been given too much by America to feel okay about leaving. If my son (who is 11) wants to avoid the draft someday, I would certainly help him. But I have to much work to do here to leave myself. I keep a copy of Langson Hughes poems to remind of why I stay:

I, too, Sing America

Let America Be America Again

_O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!_


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't want to know if I want to completely leave. I would like to mindless wonder around the world exploring for a few years and then decide where I am best suited to live.

I am currently learning spanish and french and would love to get away from here for a while. I think I have been subconsciously(sp I know it is wrong) been gearing up to get out of here. MAybe split my time between here and somewhere else. Most people here winter in the south. Would it be so bad to winter in Europe?

It would be nice to just get somewhere quieter. ya know.It is hard to explain.

Somewhere smaller where they have a much smaller government. That would be nice. Country side with reeally old villages. . .. small towns . . . that aren't suburbs of anything but not cut off from the rest of the world.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lizc_
*I was living in England on 9/11 and I hated living there. I was threatened just for being American!!! And that was BEFORE 9/11! I had no idea that even the brits hated us Americans.
Very sad.

*
We were worried about this moving back since Dh is american and I now have a strong american accent, and I was aware of that anti-americanism after 9-11. But you know it's really shifted. In fact I'm more troubled to see much more of an embracing of American culture (malls and mcdonalds popping up, people driving way more, American TV shows taking over, Starbucks and Gap everywhere, etc). In terms of politics there is a strong anti-american resistance since the Iraq war, but people have been much more careful to frame that as anti-american policy, rather than anti-american people. And of course we are also against our own prime minister's policies right now


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lilyka_
*Country side with reeally old villages. . .. small towns . . . that aren't suburbs of anything but not cut off from the rest of the world.*
This is what has amazed me coming back to England/Europe, after the states. I'd always lived in london which is endless suburbs but now I'm in a smaller, but still major city, and in 15 minutes can be in rolling hills, villages, farms, in half an hr can be in a stunning welsh valley, beautiful river and crumbling ancient abbeys and castles....

Everywhere in the US we tried living or thought about living was either already endless suburbs or if it was rural you had to drive 40 mins to get to a (*bleh*) shopping mall to buy groceries, because there was no village shop, post office, etc.

It's been so reaffirming to see that countryside still exists, village communities still exist, and I wanted Ds to have a sense of that growing up before it's all wiped out here too.


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

I am an expat. Been one most of my adult life. I don't expect ever to return to the US (to live).

But I don't understand the embarassment? When French go abroad they're embarassed by other French. Some Italians consider other Italians the worst tourists ever. I liken it to a teenager being embarassed by their parents: she is simply terrified that she is just like them!

Sit down and talk to those around whom you feel embarassed. You are you. You don't have to be defined by your citizenship.

The people from the countries that you would think would be most offended by my being American are actually the ones who are the most open and curious.

I am American. Why should that automatically mean that I'm loud and rude? I've met plenty of loud and rude people from other countries.

Just because one person or one group of people insulted you for being American does not mean that every single person in the entire country heates Americans. Why do people jump to these conclusions? It drives me batty! I've seen lots of hatred in the US. Would it be fair for me to say that Americans hate a certain group of people just because one day I saw a group of people harassing a person?


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

I am an expat too but from Canada. I have been living overseas since '97 and will be here until 2005. DH is American though and more than likely we will be returning to the US. Well he will be returning... me and the kids will be there for the first time. I don't want to go there and would rather stay overseas. I doubt we will return if Bush gets reelected. We may go to Canada or Australia or Japan.

So we may stay away from the US... we will see how the election ends and if DH can get a job anywhere else (his skills are more marketable than mine!)


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

So were I in the position of being American, even though I have triple citizenship, my response would be like Mothra:

Quote:

Pigs will fly and satan will catch a snowball with his bare hands the day I leave this country to those who seek to destroy it by serving themselves.


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## thistle (Aug 10, 2002)

My DH has been an expat, but I haven't. He lived in Prague for 18 months. He did get a bit homesick for the US.

We were planning to go to Brazil shortly after we married but his job fell through. Then we were looking at the Peace Corps very seriuosly when I got pregnant. Now we want to wait until dd is a little older.

It is difficult to find jobs in other countries with the skills (or lack of) that we have. When DH gets his MA he will be able to work in Canada too, but he isn't crazy about cold climates.

He'd really like to live in Greece. I'm not opposed to that, but finding a job has been difficult.

I want to retire to Prince Edward Island, Canada









thistle


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## 15yrsbetweenboys (Aug 11, 2003)

Put me in the ranks with Mothra and others-I am an American-I am NOT ashamed to be an American simply because of the politics. I am a genuine, bonafide flag wavin patriot (insert pledge of allegiance followed by the national anthem).

Don't get me wrong, I am as disgusted as anybody about the current state of affairs-but feel it is my DUTY, my responsibility to DO something about it rather than just gripe.

But........................if it comes to a draft, the mommy in me wins out over the patriot and I will do whatever is necessary to protect my babies-just like any mama!

Shan
(close post with Lee Greenwood's "Proud to be an American"


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

We felt for a long time we should stay in the US and do the work that's needed there (Dh as a political activist, me working with troubled teens), but that definitely shifted with mama (and papa) bear instincts kicking in.
It's not so much about embarressment or shame, but as about wanting our son to have a different experience, to be exposed to soemthing else before americanisation infiltrates all corners of the world.
Now we're away from it we also feel that there is a lot to be done on a more international level with the activism stuff (Dh is interested in international small weapons sales particularly) and I have been reminded there are plenty of troubled kids to work with the world over.


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## zaadad (Feb 29, 2004)

Wow...I never thought there would be that much response.

It is a good feeling to know that I am not the only one that considers this or at least day dreams about it.

The current political climate is not the only reason that I would consider leaving. Having grown up in a foreign country made a huge impact on me. I would love to offer my family that same experience.

I guess that having lived my formative in another country has really made me not understand the pride in being American. I have seen what others think of America.

Pleae don't get me wrong, I am GLAD that there are people that are proud of the US and take pride in our country. I just do not understand the sentiment.

Does this make sense? I hope so.

I guess Kurt Vonnegut has said it best:

"The chief weapon of [the Americans] was their capacity to astonish. Nobody believed until it was much too late, how heartless and greedy they were...Everybody in America was supposed to grab whatever he could and hold onto it. Some Americans were very good at grabbing and holding, were fabulously well-to-do. Others couldn't get their hands on doodley-squat."


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I think my father might disown me if I ever said I was ashamed to be an American. Maybe not disown me, but it would kill him.

I am no more ashamed to be an American than I would expect an Israeli to be ashamed because of Sharon's politics, or a Haitian to be ashamed because of the state of politics in Haiti. I often wonder of people who say they are ashamed to be American-- do you blame citizens, personally, of other countries for their country's faults?

The Shrub does not define my America. What my father and his contemporaries did in the sixties-- that defines my America. Martin Luther King, Jr, Elizabeth Blackwell, Sojourner Truth, even Stephen King, those are my American heroes. I just don't see what there is to be ashamed of, unless you aren't doing anything to change what you see is wrong.


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## Mothra (Jun 4, 2002)

I want to be clear that I am not saying that no one has a right to feel this way or "shouldn't" or whatever, I guess I'm just trying to understand why so many people feel this way. I understand wanting to leave, I just don't understand the shame.


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## oatmeal (Nov 15, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mrzmeg_
*Don't mean to be rude, but do you have any idea how difficult that is to do (at least, legally)? We would love to leave, but my dh and I are young (ie, without lotsa job experience or tons of money) and it is nigh impossible for us to get working papers or permanent resident status in any of the countries we've looked at.*
Sorry - replying mid-thread - before finishing

But this is my question exactly. I would do anything to be able to move dd and I to Italy. Unless you are independently wealthy for life and can prove that - or can get a very high end job with a work Visa the Italian govt. will actually approve (almost impossible)

it is impossible.

People talk about it like it's so easy.

Really - it's not. Otherwise we would be gone and my daughter's primary language would be Italian.


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Oatmeal - Move. Do some freelance work. Ask the clients to take your invoices with an American address on them. Get them to pay into your American bank account. Get your money with your debit card. Wait for the government to do another one of its "sanatoria" where any foreigner living in Italy since, say December 2003, can suddenly get all the "permessi di soggiorno" he or she wants, and live happily ever after.

zaadad - I'm not "proud" to be American. I am far from your typical flag-waving American. But I'm not ashamed/embarassed about it either. In any case, embarassment is last on my list of reasons for living abroad.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

chiming in late here! And you bet I have a lot of complex thoughts on this issue! I left the States in 1997, & have returned to visit twice, both before Sept. 11. Every time I visit it feels more & more like a foreign country to me. I never did fit in with the dominant culture, & I suppose it's lucky that I married an Aussie because I can't really guess what would have happened to me had I stayed. All I know is that I have a far better life here in supposedly ******* North Queensland that I could have ever dreamed about in the US. Here, I can be 'weird' & not fear for my life. Here I can say what I think & not be ostracised. Here we can raise our children in a nice city, send them to public schools & not have to teach them to fear everything. Here the air is clean (well, maybe not in some of the cities







: ) & i can drink out of a stream in a wilderness area. Here I have hope, which is not something I had in the US. I just assumed I would always be on the fringe of society when I lived there. Most experiences I had in the US led me to that conclusion. Here, I am a feral freaker & still very much a productive member of society. The solidly middle class feral freaker-- it's not an oxymoron here.

Part of me wants AMericans to stay exactly where they are, in America. I see Americanism & the exportation of American culture as a disease spreading around the world- I have worked very hard to adopt the ....... dominant cultural paradigm, if such a thing exists here.......... of Australia & i am raising my children to be Australian. Not half anything. They are Australian & the best thing is, one of 'em might even get a chance to run the country one day. For real. We are not overtaken by corporate greed, yet. And I have no intention of letting American globalisation take over yet another beautiful & wonderful country.

Another part of me wants to see you all get out before the country collapses around you. And Oatmeal is right, it is actually very, very difficult to migrate to another country if you don't have money or family connections. So many of you, quite frankly, probably don't stand a chance. I can only sponsor one person at a time to come to Aus, & I suppose I'd get my family out first (not that they would leave







).

I actually hold a lot of fears for those of you living in the US, particularly anyone with an Arabic/Muslim background. And I'm sorry to report that Aus isn't much better when it comes to racism towards these folks. Mahdohkt, you are not paranoid, you are sensible-- you might really like Australia, actually......

My embarrassment with being an American has nothing to do with the current US administration. I have been disgusted to the point of vomiting for many, many years with the American 'culture'. That is the flat out, bald, honest truth. It is a culture of greed, & me-ism, & looking out for number one. Not everyone, so please don't think that I am labelling any of you here. But that is the dominant theme that comes out across the rest of the world, & I find it abhorrent. If you want some answers as to why the US is so unpopular with the rest of the world, it's time to take a cold hard look at yourselves (American culture) & the image that you present to the rest of the world. Seriously.

And sleeping queen, about that love it or leave it type comment...... I left & I'm still here to annoy the shit out of you, so what good does it do really?? You can't just kick out everybody you disagree with, otherwise what do you have left? Some sort of uber-fascist state? Is that what you really want? Is that what American ideals really mean to you? 'Cuz if that's the case, I think I know who needs to find a new country to live in. I hear North Korea is taking applications........


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## fluffernutter (Dec 8, 2002)

If my DH would agree to it, I'd do it in a heartbeat!


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i have lived in another country , in nicaragua, in 1985/86 and in 1991. and i missed alot of stuff. i missed kpfa, target, my family. i have a really good job now. i make 1,759.00 a month for working 3 hours a day. tell me, where else will that happen? certainly not in nicaragua. i have family and the kids dad ownes a house. so i have a base there if i really need to pack up and go. if there is a draft ds will go in a heartbeat. but society is really different there. women are treated like housekeepers and it is not uncommon for a husband to have 2 families. i speak spanish fluently. i could set up a pre-school. that would work. it is a very catholic country.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I think about leaving all the time. The US version of "democracy" (read: corporate greed and ultimate world domination) does not feel good to me. Voting feels like a joke and I hesitate to get involved in any politics nationally or even statewide. I'm sticking to local politics and activism.

I'm much more impressed with socialism as a way to live. Granted, I have never lived for any length of time with socialism, so it could be idealistic, but with the war and the current "rah! rah! kill everyone! kill our own! yes, let's send MORE troops over! oh, and this is sponsored by GE....", I find myself disgusted and embarassed to be a part of this government and culture.

Alas, not too many countries want us ugly Americans. SO, unless I could find some great way to weasel my way into another country, I'm stuck.


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## zealsmom (Nov 22, 2001)

once an expat, always an expat!


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

The January 2004 Utne Reader had several thought-provoking articles on the expat life.

http://www.utne.com/cgi-bin/texis/sc...ml?query=expat


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Personally, I can't identify with the authors of those articles.


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## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

I was an ex-pat for 6 1/2 years. 5 1/2 in Germany and 1 in Austria. We went for school and then later work. I met my DH in Germany, although he is also an American. My DD1 was born in Germany. When she turned 1 we decided to come back to be closer to family. As much as you love an environment, it all comes back to personal connections - where your "tribe" is. I loved living in Germany, but our families were here, so we came back. DH does not miss Germany per se, but misses Europe sometimes.

We are thinking of ex-patting again, probably for a year at first, this time in my parents' country of birth (I hold dual citizenship). We plan to visit first, then make the decision. The year DD1 is in kindergarten would be the prime time to do it. This is a place where we could have the personal and cultural connections we want, although family would not be there either - that's always a problem, particularly as parents get older, etc. However, my sister does live in Belgium...

The political climate is part of our considerations, but the love of international travel, love of being in new places, love of challenges, love of languages, and that insatiable need to keep moving - those are the main considerations for us. That and wanting our DDs to learn my language first hand.

PS I'll look up the Utne reader articles - thanks for posting the link!


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## Plady (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mothra_
*You will pry my America, the America that my grandparents brought their children here seeking, from my cold, dead hands, sleeping queen. Pigs will fly and satan will catch a snowball with his bare hands the day I leave this country to those who seek to destroy it by serving themselves.*
Hi guys,

I'm an ex-pat now in Mexico and I am more politically active from here than I ever was when I lived in the States. Certainly having a child has increased my interest level, as has having a scary corrupt evil greedy war-mongering administration quietly doing whatever their twisted minds want. The internet is a powerful tool. It may not be as good as running for office but you sure can make a lot of noise from afar.

Just my $.02.


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