# Raising your spirited child...



## mamaofthree

Anyone want to join up and make a support group and do sort of an on-line workshopish sort of thing?

I am a mama of 5 (my user name is a misnomer now. LOL), and I have a very spirited child... my 5 year old soon to be six, and my 3 year old is at least border line spirited (LOL).

I have the book by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka "Raising your spirited child" and have been reading it, not to far into at the moment as it is hard to find time to get to read it and focus.

Anyway, one of the activities she suggests is writing down all the "labels" that your child has that are bad IE bossy, nosy, wild, etc and then try to find the possative twist to them... IE In charge, curious, energetic etc.

I thought mybe this would be a great place to start.. to help us see our kid(s) in a better light.

ds#2
1. noisy---- zestful
2.wild--- full of enegry
3.emotional---(anyone?? idea)
4.impatient----compelling
5.picky--- selective
6.fussy---(anyone idea??)
7.unpredictable---flexible

You don't have to have this many, or you can have more...

H


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## hippymomma69

I'd have to think longer about the labels for my DD but I had some suggestions on what you put...

3 emotional - full of feeling/deeply held feelings

6 fussy - not afraid to let you know when she's bothered by something

hth
I'll think some more about my DD
peace,
robyn


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## mamaofthree

great! thanks

h

nak


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## milkmamma

I just started reading this book, it describes my son perfectly. Hopefully it will help me out with helping him out. We just had a second child in may and since july our DS has been throwing temper tantrums daily. I am so at my wits end and frustrated and upset and feel like a failure as a mom because of this behavior, I feel like I can't handle having the two of them. This book is really helping me. Its good to know its not me and that my son isn't having psychotic episodes, he's just spirited. Phew.


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## phathui5

whiny- expressive
crazy- energetic


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## AdInAZ

demanding -- proactive
controlling -- a leader
stubborn -- persistent


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## AnnaLaughs

I'm going to bed now (should have went a long time ago







: ) but I will be back. I have a spirited 4yo DD and it has become much harder to handle since 4 month old DS was born. The book has helped but I need to vent/get suggestions/ not feel so alone. I'll check back in.
Good night.


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## mamaofthree

Well, I just went thru some of the tests... ds#2 is spirited and an extrovert and I am spirited and an introvert. LOL It is now 11:45pm and the boy is still up wanting me to talk to, but I am desperate for some alone time.
He needs me to charge him up, but some days all I have is enough for me.
I really hate the way I am parenting lately, I seem like I hate it (at least that is the way it feels like I am acting) I want to love it, and I want it to appear that way too.

Goodnight mamas!

H


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## hippymomma69

sensory seeking = tactily (sp?) gifted
stubborn = knows her own mind
rigid = not easily swayed
controlling = attentive to detail
nudist = body confident
language delayed = efficient with words
short attention span = aware of her environment

thanks, that was theraputic for me! LOL
peace,
robyn


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## MammaKoz

nak...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree*
3.emotional---(anyone?? idea

3. emotional = passionate!







:

I think this is a great idea! I'll be back to add more when the kids are settled...


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## dajones

Great thread my DS definately fits this category, I will be checking for more ideas.


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## purposefulmother

Oh, I am so glad that some of you all are reading this book -- it has been a sanity saver for my "exuberant" 5 year old.

Here are some of the ways we have recast our dd:

She's so demanding ----> She has high expectations
She's whiny --------> She's got a flair for drama
She's bossy --------> She likes to organize groups
She's so emotional ----> She really experiences "the now"
She's excitable ----> She has a lot of enthusiasm

Js


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## sciencemommy

Mamaofthree- my wonderful, challenging, maddenning ds drives us absolutely crazy much of the time. I only have two kids- ds is 4 and dd is 2; but ds counts as two kids. I hope you are maintaining your sanity. I would love to chat with other moms going through the roller coaster ride that is having a spirited, or "highly sensitive" child. Just when we think we have a handle on things, we go through another bad few weeks with ds.

My 2 year old dd gets little to no attention b/c ds takes SO much time. We are trying very hard to work with his personality, but this means little time for dd. Most of the time, we feel we are horrible parents, spoiling our son, ignoring our dd....Not to mention the looks from people when we are in public and ds has a meltdown. Ds also was just asked, well told, to move from his classroom to another one in his preschool b/c he was too difficult for the teachers. This is a Montessori school too. I waver b/w seeking psychological therapy for him and just loving him for being the little guy that he is. Would love to hear experiences from other parents of spirited kids- just to make me feel better







Are these spirited kids usually boys???


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## purposefulmother

_Are these spirited kids usually boys???_

mine isn't. My ds was a handful as a toddler to be sure, but is a calm, peaceful child now. My dd is heck on wheels.

Js


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## momtoS

I would LOVE to join you! My DD1 has always been a hand full. Now that I have DD2 (a quiet, smiling, passive baby so far) people always comment on the big difference.
As for labels I would need help. She is demanding, a very picky eater, loves being nude, an excellent memory, loves to get dirty (plays in dirt, with bugs, with POOP).
I will start reading the book and hope I can keep up ( I am also trying to become a LLL leader!)


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## LovinLiviLou

Can I join? I just got the book, and just finished the tests/personality assessments. The big eye opener for me was that it isn't just about my DD's personality (15 mos). It's her personality in combination with mine/my husband's. My older daughter (4) is very much like my personality, but this new little bundle of spirited joy (working on those new labels!) is quite the opposite of all of us.

So far the book has also made me realize that, even at 15 mos, I think she is much more extroverted than the rest of us, and I think we aren't doing enough to fill that side of her needs (I think she is also a bit on the sensory seeking side). It's a funny cycle - she does so much better out in public, but I can rarely bring myself to leave the house with both kids if I don't have to because it's so hard to get out the door with her independent ideas on what needs to be happening!

Anyhoo, look forward to hearing more from others!


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## AdInAZ

Well, I ordered the book today. Its about time I read it. I've heard it recommended many times.

Oh... and my spirited child is a girl.


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## nhplantlady

I was just about to order No Cry Sleep Solution for DS (child #2) and now will have to add this book to the list for DD (child #1). I have a friend who works at a daycare and does the 2 year old room with one other adult (14 kids) and she said (after visiting us for an overnight) that my daughter is challenging. She does whatever she wants whenever she wants (within some reason)...I was just thinking tonight that I need to add more structure to her life and see if that might curb some of her tantrums that she has when she does not get her way.

I really like the idea of looking at her defects in a different light. Thanks so much for starting this thread.


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## mylittlefiredancer

I would like to join!!! I have a very spirited 2 year old and I want to learn how to give her structure and boundaries without stifling that spirit...

Nichole















:


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## AdInAZ

Ok... I need to work some more on renaming bothersome traits...

defiant -- independantly minded
exhausting -- full of life
dominating -- practicing her leadership skills
needy -- loving


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## AdInAZ

Ok! Got my book in the mail today. I'm off to start reading it, then maybe I'll be able to participate a little better. How is everyone else doing?


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## mamaofthree

I just wanted to chime in and say hi.
I am going to be a tad busy for a few days, dh is having a hernia repair tomorrow am.
The ds#2 and ds#3 are feeding off the stress and making me completely mad







: !

H


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## Proudly AP

My nearly 6-year old DD is very spirited.

wild=energetic or exuberant


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## brogansmomma

My will-be-3-in-November guy is very spirited. To the point of nearly driving me to tears sometimes. I don't really mind not having a partner around to help out most of the time but some days I really really do not think that I can go another five minutes as a single parent.









I ordered a few books on Thursday (hopefully will get them Monday) including a couple mentioned in this thread. I can't say that I'm GD but would love to be and have it work for us. Obviously what we're (I'm) doing isn't working well for us for the most part. My guy can be SUCH a sweetheart but the other side of that is not so pretty - BEYOND what I would call "normal" temperament.


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## tannersmommy

Just started the book this past week, so I'm excited to find this thread. Our almost 3-year-old DS is very spirited. He makes us very tired.







But he is so wonderful too. I do okay with his high energy level (most days), but I'm having lots of frustration with his aggression and defiance. I'll come back later and do the "look at it in a different light" exercise with some of his spirited traits.


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## allgirls

Ok...I thought I had escaped this but # 4(22 mos) seems to be spirited. I know the books describe spirited children as being that way from birth but she was a relatively easy baby..she is just evolving into spiritedness if that's even possible, either way she is just absolutely WILD







:









So she is very extroverted and I am too..this is good.

She runs, jumps, climbs, is not easily redirected, refuses to do anything other than the way she wants to, orders me where to walk, where to drive, where to sit. And she screams at me if I or anyone else refuses to do her bidding..yeah, she's not even 2 yet. I read the book last year when I first started to see the signs.

I am worn out from this kid...thank goodness my other 3 weren't spirited because had they been #4 wouldn't exist


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## Kailey's mom

: spoiled--loved
whiney-
clingy- loving
stubborn-she know's what she want's,so would that be intellegent?


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## imahappymama

Okay, I've got a 10yo DS who came out talking, I think! Reclassifying is a good idea...

Loud...expressive
Hyper...boisterous
Exhausting...cure for laziness?
Whiny....flair for the drama
Explosive.......expressive


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## GradysMom

relentless - deeply focused
restless - full of energy
stubborn - deeeeeply focused

..but hey - for today he is petting the dog "gently", kinda cool. The dog is not convinced yet


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## michaelsmama

imahappymama had "feisty" in her sig - we used that a lot for our older one.

As a social worker in an orphanage in Honduras, I did lots of "relabeling" with our parents (kids of all ages and behaviors(bx) and challenges) and found that often "curious" was what described the child's bx...active often applied too.exploring...learning about her environment....relabeling helped when the parents could get there. Helps me too on "those" days.


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## purposefulmother

_As a social worker in an orphanage in Honduras_

this wouldn't be Little Roses, would it??


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## greeny

Hi







My dd, almost 4.5 years old, is a spirited introvert.


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## SusannahM

I'd like to join up. I have a very spirited almost 3 year old, and a 7-month old who is very high-energy (translated: refuses to take naps, wakes about 6 times a night). It has been so hard since the baby was born to deal with DD, especially with the lack of sleep







. I need a good kick in the rear to help me be more positive with everything. I also think I need to re-read the book to help solidify some things in my head. DD is SO, SO smart and loving. I think her hardest trait is that she's very, very stubborn (knows her own mind? I guess I really don't see "stubborn" as being a derogatory term, I'm stubborn, too, and I think it's a good thing) and also smart. The negotiations almost never end around here. Giving her choices doesn't work. She KNOWS those aren't the only choices.


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## nhplantlady

So glad to know I'm not alone. It is hard being a loving mom every day when so challenged by spirited children. I really need to let DH know that I need a break more often than I get them (almost never). Hopefully DS will start to wean soon.


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## lilsishomemade

It was this book that got me to realize that the behaviors that are difficult to deal with in children are behaviors that are really admired in adults. Anyone think of that?

I'll be following this thread if ya'll don't mind. About the only thing I was able to get out of that was being able to change my "labels" (and that did help some) before oldest ds tossed the book in the toilet.......literally.


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## AdInAZ

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilsishomemade* 
About the only thing I was able to get out of that was being able to change my "labels" (and that did help some) before oldest ds tossed the book in the toilet.......literally.

Ha ha! I haven't read any farther than that either yet. I need to sneak a copy into my inlaws house. Dd was being her normal exhuberant self only more so because it was past bedtime and she hadn;t even had dinner yet (car broke down...long story) and my frustrated FIL asked if we ever spanked her.







: It makes me feel a little embarrassed that she isn't more well behaved for her grandparents but also mad that everyone thinks spanking is the answer. Why can't we just accept the fact that she is a little wild (er...exhuberant) because of the lack of food and rest (and natural personality tendencies) and move on to remedy the situation?


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## goodheartedmama

my son is very spirited. But it makes me sad to think about him NOT being spirited. He is very extreme in his actions and reactions. He is very loving, but very sensitive. He can be aggressive, but not in a mean way...he's a big kid for his age, and doesn't know his size or strength. He's very passionate...you can already tell that at such a young age. While (to be completely honest) it can get to me at times, it's a great thing, really. We're very much alike in our personalities.


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## momovthree

I started reading it and then stopped. I really should pick it up again.


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## Jojo F.

Read the book several times, recommend it all of the time, and LOVED it. It helped me so much with my son and myself.

Some things that come to my mind:
Stubborn=headstrong
Argues=always has an answer
Picky=knows what he wants
Wild=likes to have A LOT of fun









Another thing that has worked so well is sticking to what I say, not backing down on the consequences. It's OK to let them know you are not happy with their decision to not listen to you. They are still a good kid, but they need to work on making better decisions. I think that was key for me, to let him know he's a great, funny kid, but at times needs to think things through a little better. So we talk about it when the time-out is over.

I have family members too who tell me to spank him when he throws a tantrum. It breaks my heart to think that because your child has reached a breaking point or too many transitions or just plain frustrated they think it's OK to hit them for it. What the child needs is comforting and some time to wind down, a nap, food, the tags cut out of the shirts(I've had to cut all of the tags out), etc. Not to brag, but he is WAY better behaved than some of the kids in my family who have been spanked and the family has recognised that now.


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## Inanna_Mama

Just got the book at the library the other day. My 10 month old has been spirited since birth (which is why I haven't had a chance to read the book until now














.

I'm already dreading the holidays & our 2nd trip to visit my family since he was born. My nephew (who's just 7 months older than DS) is so delightfully chilled out. My guy couldn't be more different, so we were heaped with nasty criticism for being bad parents. Now here we are 7 months later and we're still the same parents and he's still the same little boy.

But this time I'll be ready for our critics. The relabeling really helps, but I have to work hard at convincing myself before trying to re-educate my relatives. Happy to have all your great lists to draw on. Looking forward to adding a few of my own soon.


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## raismama

I just happened to stumble upon this thread and I think this is definitely my ds. I'm not too sure what you mean by spirited child, if someone would like to explain it to me that would be great. I think I may have heard the term once or twice, but that's really all. My ds is out of control, literally, some days I just cry because I don't know what to do. He is a very caring, loving boy, and smart too, he just does whatever he wants when he wants, hits me, hits his head on everything when he gets mad or I'm not paying attention to him. Its all so completely different from dd, you would have never known she was in the room when she was his age. I'm worried that things will only get worse with him, and we have #3 coming in March so I'd like to try to start figuring out what to do, if anyone could help, or point me in the right direction if he isn't spirited I would be so grateful.


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## Inanna_Mama

Here's a good link to give you the basics on spirited-ness:

http://www.nurturingourfamilies.com/.../exptdefn.html


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## raismama

Thank you. The site is very informative.


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## cmoma

Popping late at night but had to reply here.

Isn't it just the best when you discover your child is NOT the ONLY one out there that is NOT like the others!

My son who will be 4 in a few weeks is a "crazy out of control".........I mean energetic and flexible boy!









He drains me on most days and I have had to throw out ( thought I still revert back on occasion) my "instinctual responses and parenting tactics out the window. As they just don't apply to him or work either. He is the equivilent of two kids! He is not only and extrovert and highly energetic but he is also quite gifted. So the body and brain DO NOT STOP EVER. Even when he sleeps his brain is going ( hence the night terrors and nightmares my poor kid has) He is also AMAZING and I love watching him learn and do things. He notices EVETHING, Hears EVERYTHING. He is loving and sensitive to others, he is aware of others emotions.

As a PP said all these things that drive us looney are the qualities we WANT them to have, as they will get them far in this life.

One of the things I have made myself aware of is that it isn't just about learning how to manage them but it's also about teaching *them* \how to recognize and manage themselves make them aware of their behavior then show them ways to deal with it. When my son is having a moment for whatever reason lately it's because of a lack of sleep, but when it happens I have him breathe with me, Deep breathes in and out and when he calms I ask why he is frustrated, angry sad? Of course it doesn't always work but atleast it reminds me to breathe!!!

Sorry this got soooooo long, I ob. have a lot to say on this topic.


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## Spritesmom

Wahoooo! Just found you women!! DD is 7 - You may also check out Living with the Active Alert by Linda Budd. Saved our sanity and marriage!! DD has a fantastic imagination - which is a blessing and a curse. She can be a bull in a china shop and then a passing butterfly will scare/panic her. She just started tantrums!!! We try to stay organic/natural - which helps - sometimes!! Patience, Patience, Patience!!! Active Alerts are usually okay in public but save the (okay say this positive!) "interesting" behavoir for home. She is all or nothing - Makes us crazy!! I don't want to change her spirit but am trying to teach her to self control. Do your kids have trouble going to sleep? Started the yoga relaxation technique this summer and have had good results - so far! We weren't sure if her behavoir was just because she wasn't getting enough sleep or if she was just bipolar! Just kidding! DH stayed home with DS (10) and her so major problems didn't arrive until she hit first grade and DH went back to work. I have always worked full time - not happy about it - just worked out that way. We try to give DS extra attention - divide and conquer! He is very patient and sometimes he is the only one who can reach her when she is "loudly expressing her opinion." Thank you, thank you for starting this "thread"! Sorry, I'm relatively new and still getting the lingo. This may be a post - WHATEVER!! Thank you!


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## Inanna_Mama

I sometimes wonder if DS's challenges don't come from being chronically over-tired. He's had difficulty sleeping since birth and still rarely naps for longer than 1 1/2 hours at a time. He's so happy when he wakes after the rare 2+ hour nap. I have yet to see a full night's sleep, so can't say what that might do for him.

I just put a hold on Living With The Active Alert Child. Looking forward to it and hoping I have a spare minute to read it after plowing thru Raising Your Spirited Child, Playful Parenting and Unconditional Parenting in all my "spare time"


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## cmoma

Inanna_Mama said:


> I sometimes wonder if DS's challenges don't come from being chronically over-tired.
> 
> My son's behavior is very much directly related to the amount of sleep he gets. He has always been a not so great sleeper always had trouble settling down at naps and at night. TO help with this he gets a cup of Nighty-Night tea during his bedtime routine. It has been amazing for him. There are also tablets from Hylands that are similar. I think Sleep overall is a major factor in all kids, not just the "spirited" ones. "Our" children (meaning "our" as a society are most definitely sleep deprived in my opinion. There are times when my son has gone to bed and fallen asleep at 6pm to try and get him caught up.
> 
> Spritesmom: where did you learn the relax techniques. I have been wanting to start doing some yoga with my son?


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## Spritesmom

Most school districts have a night school program- I used to try and get a course in every fall. The Y's usually have a yoga class and now the "Wellness" centers have them. Basically I tell her to get in a "comfortable" position - whatever that may be for her. Take three deep breathes, hold for three and let it out. I tell her this tells her brain it's time to slow down. Then I sing song - softly - " We're going to relax and have a good nights sleep and wake up refreshed for a new day. Just relax.....(Pause) relax.....just relax. Listen to Mom's voice and relax. - Draw RELAAAX out .- When she is still I start: Relax...(pause) just relax....(Pause) relax.... relax your toes....relax your heels....relax your ankles..... relax....just relax....relax. Now - she has no idea how to relax her toes, BUT the point of this is to get her to STOP long enough so her body can sleep. Slowly and getting softer - go up the joints..knees, hips, up the back, elbows etc. She has to stay still and I don't touch her. Sometimes in the middle, if she's still scratching something - I do the deep breathing again. You just want them to STOP. Active Alerts can't turn off their "fight or flights" so they are constantly "ON". We need to teach them how to turn themselves "OFF" for the night. She slept with headphones on since she was two, because she heard the "night noises" and was too scared to sleep. Don't let your pediatrician tell you that they can't do this!!! I spent many nights trying everything to get her to sleep before I came up with the headphones. She doesn't need them, now since the yoga. She is tired, she just doesn't know how to turn off to sleep. She never had the "Night Terrors" but her dreams are very vivid. I think she is handling them better since she is sleeping more. She also has the ability to change the course of her dreams. I started this with her when she was about three and saw Jurassic Park at my IL. I was furious!!! Their TV is always on - I mean ALWAYS. Anyway - dinosaurs chased/ate her for many a long night - I finally got her to turn herself into a BIGGER dino and chase/eat the ones getting her. I was truly amazed when I woke up the next morning with her standing by my head with a big grin on her face. "Hey, Mom - I kicked their butts last night!!" (She has an older brother!) She has since made friends with "the Clicking Man" who scared her for many nights until she figured out a way to make him stop. I try to let her figure it out. Empowerment is a wonderful thing at any age!! Sorry this is sooo long. I joined this site looking for just this. These kids are being diagnosed as ADHD etc. and I'm determined mine is going to be as free to be herself as any other kid. They are too smart and imaginative to be falling in the cracks or labelled.


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## Inanna_Mama

That's so awesome, Spritesmom! Thanks for sharing your wonderful nighttime strategy (and the cool way you helped your dd with her scary dreams). I wonder if it's pointless to start the yoga relaxation with a 10 month old? I nurse sing to him at bedtime and it's super dark so going to sleep is no problem. But staying asleep is another matter. As is going down for naps. He just knows it's daytime and wants to keep going and going and going.


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## Spritesmom

Thanks! Maybe his room is too dark. If he wakes up, just a little, and finds himself in complete darkness...? My DS (and my DS (10) for that matter) both sleep with lights on. My DS won't do a night light so we have a table lamp with a low watt (25 -I think) bulb. I use to turn it off when I went to bed but he asked me to stop. DD started to sleep with the main light on so there was minimum shadows to "get her". But then she played. This was before I found "The BOOK". Now she picked out a night light - rather large orange sea horse (IKEA). Has two of the little night lights in it but it was way too bright so we took one out. Most nights we start with that and if she needs her table lamp, I'll use it until the yoga kicks in and then I turn it off. If she wakes up in the middle of the night with a bad dream, she's crawling in with DH & me anyway so (Mom, I have to tell you...but she's a furnace!!! When I wake up drenched in sweat, I know she's back. Is there any outside noises he might be hearing? Garbage trucks, sirens or even kids playing outside, squeaky floors? Maybe some kind of white noise to mask these? Or they have ocean sounds and stuff like that you could play. Have you just asked him why he woke up? I know he's 10 months, but if he says "big boom" or something - it might give you a clue. Good Luck!!! Oh, I don't think it is too early to start him with yoga, there must be someone out there who has yogaed with babies.


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## Inanna_Mama

Thanks for the suggestions! We've tried both with and without some sort of lighting. The results seem to be the same. We just moved him over to his own mattress next to our floor bed (wow! it's nearly as big as Brad Pitt's bed now ;-) because I thought he needed his own space - he's a mover even in his sleep! But that hasn't made a difference either. We have two fans going in the room all the time, too. We'll keep trying...

I like the idea of asking him why he wakes up (although usually I'm nursing him before he's made enough of a fuss to wake himself up). He can't talk yet, but we're trying sign language with him so maybe he can sign soon.

I think we're going to have him screened for Sensory Processing Disorder, too. I have a gut feeling there's more to our daily challenges than just spirit.

Anyone else have a spirited one with SPD?


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## cmoma

Thanks Spritesmom!! I think I'll have to try some of that the next time we are faced with a late or difficult night. So far he seems to be doing really well falling and staying asleep! woo hoo no night terrors lately either,


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## Spritesmom

Maybe it's the full moon!! DD tantrums have lessened in intensity. I've been reading a little about GD - tantrums are like sneezes!! I never thought about it like that. But we were definitely trying to get her to stop. Man, oh man! I was ready to look for the duct tape!! I can't find anything about older kids having tantrums. I guess my thing was if she couldn't tell us WHY she was having them, just stop. A two year old may not have the words, but a 7 yr would have them, (yeah, right!) so was she just trying to get out of homework? I know reading scares her. She thinks she has to know all the words in a book so it makes it difficult to teach her new ones. DH & I love to read - though it's been, let's see, about 7 yrs since I have read much except child books. If she would just RELAX and TRY - she knows her phonics - DH says this is about me. I'm so busy making sure no one puts her in a box that I'm sitting on the lid. Reading is so important. If you can read well, most everything else will be easier. Okay, so she doesn't have to read well, TODAY. Even though I know she can. I need a new approach - any ideas?


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## 4evermom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spritesmom* 
I need a new approach - any ideas?

My spirited niece learned to read when she was 7. It was interesting that she put books into two categories, ones for her to read (Dick and Jane easy readers) and ones for having others read to her. Honestly, in your situation, I would just read to her as much as she wants, letting her look at the words over my shoulder as I read so she could get comfortable with bigger words at her own pace. I know that if she is in school, it's a bit harder to be relaxed about it. My (also spirited) ds (6 yo) does not like phonics in the least. I think he is going to learn to read by having his sight words slowly increase until the whole thing suddenly clicks. If you go to the Learning at Home forum, you will find lots of support for having a late reader (not that 7 is considered late there).


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## spottiew

there is a spirited tribe...http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=710993 it just needs people to talk in it!


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## Spritesmom

Just put in my two cents... thanks for letting us know!!


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## Meg_s

My spirited boy is 2, I just wanted to throw a few tips and things that worked for us out there







By worked, I mean worked to get him more sleep since he was chronically sleep deprived, and also worked to help him be a happy intense boy rather than one who was miserable, frustrated, throwing back to back tantrums. For the sleep it was dairy, he isn't a "good" sleeper now at all, and he needs a long time to wind down at night, but he was a thousand times better than he was when we cut ALL dairy. For the mood/temper it was salicylates. He can't eat them.. and it's a major pain in the ass because I have to put so much effort into cooking (I always did anyway, this is just even more work... on top of keeping him away from commercial foods that everyone else eats) but it is worth it.... it saved our family !! When a spirited child isn't happy/cheerful, no one in earshot is happy.

First of all when he's been "salicylated" nothing works, and I might as well just stay in my pjs and keep the earplugs in and shut all the windows because we're not going anywhere that day. When he is himself however, what works awesomely is a lot of "deals" and getting him to say "yes" instead of trying to hurry him or just push him into doing something which is always a disaster.

I just have to say I can't stand my neighbour now, even though she means well, because she thinks my son is just a spoiled brat and all he needs is to be locked in his room and spanked a few times to be a "good" child. Good meaning, seen and not heard, compliant and non demanding.


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## Inanna_Mama

Thanks for the heads up on salicylates. I didn't even know what they were! I found this article really informative:

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0...u_feel_ill.htm


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## Meg_s

I keep harping on them but it is no exaggeration to say that changing the way my son eats has been a godsend. He is truly scary when salicylated, and when he's free of them he is like.. IMO, of course I'm biased because he's MY son, but an absolute DREAM of a spirited child and I love and admire his intense traits, rather than just keep asking myself "why" and feel like I'm in a living hell.


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## Spritesmom

Why is it that most everywhere our kids go, people want to feed them? Church, Brownies, the stupid RED lollipops at the bank. I recently became our churches Sunday School Super - 1ST thing I did was to ban ALL snacks. For Pete's sake - they are only there for an hour!! I feel like the "older" members are making the sign of the cross behind my back! Hey - walk a mile in my shoes when my beautiful DD drinks your red juice and eats that chocolate cupcake with 2" of blue icing with colored sprinkles at 10:30 a.m.!!! What were they thinking? Ok - they're not, but they are NOW. Wasn't as bad of a night as we were expecting with DD's (and mine!) lack of sleep last night. She actually came to me and while writhing on the floor - whined that this was the way she was feeling. We've been trying to get her to "Use her words" and to recognise how she feels when she is close to tantruming. I asked her if she thought she could go running in our cul-du-sac and she thought she could - so she ran, and ran, and ran and ran...... AND SHE LAUGHED!! Oh, the power of laughter!!! I swear her eyes can sparkle! So can DS's! When we came inside she actually let Dh cut her hair with no fuss - she has the most beautiful head of curls - but she looks like a wild child if we don't keep them trimmed. She was about two weeks over due for a trim 'cause she just wasn't having it. So exercise and the right food may just be what we need to keep the whole family sane!! I think we can handle that. On the salicylates - isn't that one of the things to avoid with the Finegold Diet? Mine does better with organic/natural but then, I think we all do. The dairy issue is interesting. In my family we have to have our Daily Minimun Requirement of ice cream. We have it for "snack" before we go to bed. Mmmnnnn. (Ok - I know it's not a "healthy" snack but Grandma always did it when we would visit and I always said I would do it with my kids. Guess I have to rethink it - but it's going to be a hard one to change.) We had been working with a holistic program - Neuro-Emotional Technique - and had some small success - and they were against all dairy. It was $35. a week so we only did it for about a month - have to rethink that, too. Thanks - you have given us somewhere to go when we hit that wall. Hey - I'm going to go to bed before 1:00 a.m.!!! Wahooo! Thanks, Mamas!! WE CAN DO THIS! We can help each other through the tunnel to the LIGHT!! These kids are truly amazing and we can figure out how to keep them that way without the rest of us going insane!!! WE CAN DO THIS!! Patience and blessings!! Night!


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## Meg_s

I love ice cream and just make my own! I don't use soy..and My son can't have berries, because of the salicylates, but he can have ripe peeled pears and bananas so....

I freeze the fruit, and then

put in a blender some butter oil (butter that has been cooked and filtered to get rid of the casein, he does fine with that), eggs and boiling water which cooks the whites but leaves the yolks soft and melts the butter.. blend it and it is a frothy rich liquid (I use this liquid to make cappuccinos for myself too btw) then add enough frozen fruit to make it into a thick spoonable concoction which I call and eat as ice cream! I do it for myself with berries because I can't resist them, but for the boy only use acceptable fruit due to the salicylate issue.

Or I use fresh raw sheep's milk, which my son also seems to be fine with, despite not being able to deal with cow's.

My 2nd baby is very easy going compared to the first, but when I eat dairy (omg I lived on dairy post partum with my first, the poor thing) he gets fussier in general and sleeps poorly relative to his normal sleep abilities.

It drives me CRAZY that everywhere you go people are trying to feed your kids, I so hear you on that one. DS1 goes to a daycare for 2 or 3 hours in the morning. I bring him there just after 9, he's already eaten breakfast and been up for a while - why WHY WHY do they need to have crap to feed the kids there? A play group which is 2 hours in the afternoon - gotta have a huge snack time full of junkfood.. it's like, people don't know what to do with kids so they just feed (sedate) them to keep them occupied. My issue is that when my son is salicylated it ruins all of our lives.. HIS life being messed with is bad enough, but to have him tantruming and crying and screaming for 5 days after a dose is so unfair to the rest of us as well. And it's "just a little won't hurt him" "It's healthy food!!" I don't care how healthy you think raisins are, just a few are enough to send my son over the edge so don't Fing give them to him. Don't give anything to him! He ate a big breakfast and will come home and eat a big healthy lunch if you don't shove food in his face.


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## cmoma

The snacks being served at the preschool my son went to last year was one of the reasons we pulled him, potato chips, pretzels, cheezits, chocolate chip cokies all at 10 o clock in the morning! Of course the parties were even worse, junk food out the wazooooo. I kept wanting to bring his own snacks and stuff in but well I just never did and I regret letting him have all that crap now because I was too timid to stand up for healthy eating







: The end of the year party was the WORST the teachers gave out candy to all the kids mind you this was a 2 yr old class..PIXIE STICKS that the parents were literally dumping down the kids throats (because they are too little to understand how to eat them) marshmallow stick things, ugh it was horrifying I just threw em' all away when we left. Why do kids need all that junk???

My son is really sensitive to sugar, he does have ice cream now and again but in small quantities, no chocolate unless I get the grain sweetened kind, and certaintly no candy.

I looked into the Salyclites but never really followed through on it. He seems to be triggered more by sugar sleep and the weather. Cloudy rainy days Watch out!!!

I agree having a place to chat and vent is really nice!

Spritesmom I







about your daughter running..my son who'll be 4 in a few weeks often requests to go out and run!!! We go to the local park with a dirt track or to the woods to hike and he runs and runs







: What kid asks to go out to run? Mine apparently


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## Inanna_Mama

Running always helps me (or it used to when I had time to run!). Glad to hear it made such a difference! I look forward to trying it with DS as soon as he's got walkin' legs









I've seen little stickers or buttons you can put on kids with food issues to prevent the ridiculous force-feeding of junk. Some are pretty obnoxious, but these CafePress ones aren't too bad:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/food+al...5636pi10ai1779


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## Spritesmom

Aahhhh! Lost my post!! And you know it was a long one!! Meg S. do you just wing your ingredients? How many eggs? How much boiling H2O? I make smoothies but with yogurt but I may be able to get away with this. Redo the rest tomorrow - to bed before one - two nights in a row! Wahoo!! Blessings!!


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## Sara Ann

I will be reading this thread. Xander is almost 4.5 and he is definitely spirited and gifted.

I am in the process of reading (when I have time) Taming the Spirited Child: Strategies for parenting challenging children without breaking their spirits, by Michael H. Popkin. So far, I do like it and describes him very well.


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## Spritesmom

Inanna Mama - I love this site! I'm going to plaster stickers all over church!! I would love to sky write - Please don't feed the children! - Have a meeting with the Title One reading specialist today. NOT looking forward to it at all, though I should be. DD made a break through last week. She actually wriggled up to me (on her back on the floor!) and said that this was the way she was feeling. I asked her if she could put it into words and she said it was a "sick" feeling. So.... I said - why don't we go run? Now, this was about 7:30 at night - it was dark here - Eastern PA - I have said this to her before when I knew she needed to run but she never took me up on it. Well - that girl ran and ran and ran!! First time around the cul-du-sac she was serious but on the second lap she had this big grin on her face!! I was suppose to be chasing her (not with these knees!) but I just kept lunging at her and she would dart away. We had a very busy weekend and she had very bad dreams (even in our bed!). She whinned all the way to the bus stop - I'm off today - so I bet her I could reach the white mail box before her and off she went. I hope she is having a good day. AND I really hope I can keep my big mouth shut at this meeting. I (we) know she needs help with her reading and I'm hoping they will take her personality into consideration when we "plan" her program today. I guess it is a start - her letter home just made it sound like we haven't been working on this with her and we actually have to sign a "Compact" saying that we will do what we have already been doing - which isn't working!!! Yeah, I'm taking this personally... I know, I know - I need to get out of the way. Deep breathes, deep breathes...


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## ConsciousMama

I am so happy to have found this post. I am just starting "Raising your spirited child" along with the workbook. I'm at wits end. My, highly energetic, focused, knows what he wants, 3 yr old ds has got my husband and I going at each other half the time. We were ready to send him off (to where, I'm not sure...) and I remembered that about a year ago I bought the book, and started reading it and then it ended up on my bookshelf. I loved what I read, even brought me to tears. I'm looking forward to getting things in control. I think the warm weather makes things worse. He's a firey, red, pitta, leo and the warm weather makes him miserable. And my almost 5 yr old dd is such a little mama, I feel bad that she is always sheparding him in the right direction, while putting up with his pent up energy in the form of pinching, kicking, etc. She's really so awesome and the best big sis. I'm concerned about the salicylates as we are raw foodists and the list of salicylate foods is very long. I'm hoping to go there last! Maybe I'll try to be aware of it for now. Ready to start fresh tomorrow! We had a great night running around the playground until after dark with dh. Playgrounds are so great for blowing off steam!
Thanks for the ideas!
Blessings.


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## Spritesmom

Well...Ya know...sometimes I make this Mothering thing harder than it has to be!!







The reading specialist was very nice - she has never even met DD - someone else gave DD the test. From what I saw the little minx is reading better at school than she is at home. Hmmmm. Have to be careful about labelling. She is saying "Well - I'm just Active Alert and you have to deal with it." - when she starts behaving badly and we call her on it.







: We are not letting her get away with that but I know she has heard me describing her as a "Wild Woman". She might be getting just a little kick out of that. Bad dream again, tonight. This one is really freaking her out and DH and me, as well, when she starts screaming for us. She is really terrified. She hasn't done this in a long time. She just keeps replaying it over and over. Apparently it comes from a TV commercial for a local amusement parks Halloween festivities. Dh is trying to find it online right now. I need to see it so I can suggest ways for her to change the dream - she's not up to that right now but the power of suggestion has to kick in eventually. She had to see this commercial in the hour she watched TV this Sat. morning!!







:


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## Inanna_Mama

Just back from the evaluation with DS. We were concerned that he might have some sensory integration issues - mostly due to his biting himself when frustrated or angry.

They recommended that I take him to a pediatrician to have him check his ears (he tugs at them a lot, but they don't think it's sensory related - I agree after the OT explained the difference between sensory issues, behavioral issues and physical concerns). They think he's just chronically over-tired as well.

The program is free and we qualify to get a weekly visit from a social worker to help us with sleep issues. Although the eval folks were kind enough and certainly had the best of intentions, it was clear that they want me to stop nursing on demand and co-sleeping.







Not gonna happen.

So, when the case manager calls tomorrow, I'm going to tell her thanks, but no thanks. We'll take DS to the pedi, then start getting serious on the No Cry Sleep Solution. It worked for nap time, so it's worth a try at night, too. As for the biting...well, I'm not sure what to do.

They think he's distractable enough that I should be able to use that as a solution. But he's so fast! That hand is in his mouth before I can come up with a distraction. Sometimes he can work through it on his own. He may fuss a bit, but not erupt. Other times, he's straight to self-gnawing. Any thoughts on how to help him manage his temper, or is he just too young yet?


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## Spritesmom

WOW!! I'm thinking distraction, too. Maybe if you do the same thing every time, he will eventually just do IT instead of the gnawing when he gets mad. This is a hard one. Can't the case workers help you with the anger issue without getting too into the sleep issue? They are probably related but they should be able to help you figure out what could work when he gets mad so you are ready the next time. So are they saying that this is behavioral? I think everyone I know is sleep deprived!


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## cmoma

hugs: mama, I wish I had some advice for you.


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## Inanna_Mama

Thanks so much for the hugs, Mamas!

Yep, they think it's all behavioral - thanks to his Mama who allowed these habits to form









I'm trying not to take it too hard as I'm an AP, aspiring-to-be GD parent, and these folks clearly are not. I really believe that if I had stopped nursing on demand, co-sleeping and immediately responding to his needs before now, we would be in a far worse place.

But, you're right, Spritesmom. I probably do need help with distraction/anger management tips for DS. Still, I'm hoping to get them from like-minded folks instead of mainstream behavioralists (is that a word?







).

On the up side, over the past few days DS's started showing signs of wanting cuddles! This is very exciting as a single hug from him reduces my stress levels considerably which, hopefully, in-turn will reduce his.


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## cmoma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inanna_Mama* 
On the up side, over the past few days DS's started showing signs of wanting cuddles! This is very exciting as a single hug from him reduces my stress levels considerably which, hopefully, in-turn will reduce his.









thats great!


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## Sage_SS

My daughter is 7. She's always been LOUD. She started talking very early and speaking very well. As a result, she's quite talkative and expresses herself constantly. She's been called bossy by impatient people, and has been said to have "mother hen syndrome" by nicer people. When she was in preschool and the kids were fighting or arguing, she'd walk over to them and loudly tell everyone to just take a deep breath and calm down. She has very clear ideas of what she wants and when others don't share her vision, she becomes obstinate, which gradually becomes complacency saturated with sarcasm. She has ALOT of energy for the things she wants to do, but if I ask her to do something, she's suddenly the laziest kid on the planet. And I mean ANYTHING. She's UNBELIEVABLY argumentative! She argues with me about everything and anything, and even if I can prove her wrong ( oh, how I low I fall sometimes) she still argues with me, just for arguing with her. I cannot explain here how often she argues with me!
She is very friendly and so compassionate. Her passion runs deep and her understanding of emotions is astounding.
She is very intelligent, but getting her to do her work is ridiculous. Its easy for her, but she hates to do it. Ugh.
Her teachers tell me that she talks too much, tends to be bossy but has alot of friends.
She is almost hyper active. My mom looks at her like she's special needs when my daugher gets excited about something.
I have spent so much of her life feeling like a terrible parent.
She's in Sun Hang Do, which she loves because she's encouraged to be LOUD. She's in cheer leading which she loves for the same reason.

I'm so glad to find that I'm not alone!! There are other kids like her! This sounds terrible, but I've oftened wondered if we did something wrong somewhere.. did we teach her to be that loud? By encouraging her to explore and ask questions and find her own answers, did I teach her that I know nothing? When we play with her, did we teach her to be extremely, over the top excitable when she's looking forward to something or really happy? When teaching her never to ostersize anyone, did we teach her to be bossy and try to force kids to do things her way?


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## imbarefoot

Hello









I am the mother to an extremely spirited child.

I'm also reading this book at the moment, I will do my list.

Dramatic-Charismatic
Doesn't listen-Independent
Stubborn-Strong Willed
Demands Attention-Affectionate
Can't focus on one thing-Very Perceptive of her surroundings
Shy around others-Likes to observe before engaging
Easily upset and whiny-Sensitive


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## cmoma

: UGH Hi ladies I just need to vent a bit before I head to bed. We had the roughest day today with DS. He spent the day yesterday with his Nana and Popa, I think he has a hard time transitioning from being with his nana. I'm thinking it may have something to do with all the one on one she gives him. Even though DD 18m was there too. She still focuses on him a lot. Atleast that is my feeling. Does anyone notice this? Anyway he is also lacking sleep which is in itself bad. But today a day where we are normally all home together (dad was out for the day) he was OUT OF CONTROL!







Just had a hard time listening and handling a "no" from me. He didn't nap but instead the only good moment of the day (except when he fell asleep







) he built and awesome firehouse with his legos. DH came home and was exhausted from gettin up at 3:30 and plopped on the couch to rest. I was trying to get DS to clean up and he was just resisting he wanted to sleep with Dad. I finally just gave up and did it myself. We then headed out to run a couple errands but while at the first store he began to just lose it. By the time we left our patience was thin and we headed for the nearest park. He managed ok there but when we came home the struggles really began. I was in the kitchen getting dinner and DS decided he wanted to draw well he is becoming a perfectionist with his drawing and if the do not come out EXACTLY the way he intended them too he totally melts down. I wanted DH to deal with him without me. He kept trying to calm DS down but it wasn't happening eventually he came to eat which was another issue I gave him the wrong noodles and didn't let him put the ketchup on them! I then set the timer for bedtime. Well halfway through DH decided he had had enough and declared it was now bedtime. DS freaked ran into the kitchen locked the gate behind him and hid under the table. I tried talking but it was no use. We did finally get him into bed and he fell asleep soon after. But PHEW! That last hour was not good. DH came down and said either he is tired beyond belief or there is something wrong. He had no patience today for him, I talked to DH but got no response from him about it at all. There isn't anything wrong he just gets that way from different reasons. We also haven't figured out how to respond to him before and after his freak out, meltdown tantrums. I need to read up on some GD and see how that might help us. He defintely *feeds off* of our emotions which is part of the problem.

anyway thanks for reading if you got this far I just needed vent


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## imbarefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmoma* 







: UGH Hi ladies I just need to vent a bit before I head to bed. We had the roughest day today with DS. He spent the day yesterday with his Nana and Popa, I think he has a hard time transitioning from being with his nana. I'm thinking it may have something to do with all the one on one she gives him. Even though DD 18m was there too. She still focuses on him a lot. Atleast that is my feeling. Does anyone notice this? Anyway he is also lacking sleep which is in itself bad. But today a day where we are normally all home together (dad was out for the day) he was OUT OF CONTROL!







Just had a hard time listening and handling a "no" from me. He didn't nap but instead the only good moment of the day (except when he fell asleep







) he built and awesome firehouse with his legos. DH came home and was exhausted from gettin up at 3:30 and plopped on the couch to rest. I was trying to get DS to clean up and he was just resisting he wanted to sleep with Dad. I finally just gave up and did it myself. We then headed out to run a couple errands but while at the first store he began to just lose it. By the time we left our patience was thin and we headed for the nearest park. He managed ok there but when we came home the struggles really began. I was in the kitchen getting dinner and DS decided he wanted to draw well he is becoming a perfectionist with his drawing and if the do not come out EXACTLY the way he intended them too he totally melts down. I wanted DH to deal with him without me. He kept trying to calm DS down but it wasn't happening eventually he came to eat which was another issue I gave him the wrong noodles and didn't let him put the ketchup on them! I then set the timer for bedtime. Well halfway through DH decided he had had enough and declared it was now bedtime. DS freaked ran into the kitchen locked the gate behind him and hid under the table. I tried talking but it was no use. We did finally get him into bed and he fell asleep soon after. But PHEW! That last hour was not good. DH came down and said either he is tired beyond belief or there is something wrong. He had no patience today for him, I talked to DH but got no response from him about it at all. There isn't anything wrong he just gets that way from different reasons. We also haven't figured out how to respond to him before and after his freak out, meltdown tantrums. I need to read up on some GD and see how that might help us. He defintely *feeds off* of our emotions which is part of the problem.

anyway thanks for reading if you got this far I just needed vent

Hugs! Those kinds of days can be very trying. I hope you get some relief tomorrow!

Have you talked to your mom about how he acts once he leaves there? Could she be possibly feeding him things with High Fructose Corn Syrup, Red dye 40, caffeine, or some sort of artificial flavors/colors? I have no idea if you cut those things from your children's diets, but I really think those contribute so much to behaviors and moods of young children. I know my parents had no idea until I let them know and backed it up with some articles.

Anyway, that was just my first question after reading that.


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## cmoma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *imbarefoot* 
Hugs! Those kinds of days can be very trying. I hope you get some relief tomorrow!

Have you talked to your mom about how he acts once he leaves there? Could she be possibly feeding him things with High Fructose Corn Syrup, Red dye 40, caffeine, or some sort of artificial flavors/colors? I have no idea if you cut those things from your children's diets, but I really think those contribute so much to behaviors and moods of young children. I know my parents had no idea until I let them know and backed it up with some articles.

Anyway, that was just my first question after reading that.

At our house there is no hfcs, caffeine aftificial colorings but now that you mention it she does give him yogurt that has hfcs I made a comment about it but I have not made her change it because well when I made the comment about it not being good for you she just gave me a face She seems to do well when I am there about not giving him junk but I know she does not feed him the things that I feed at home well she does but they aret the things I hve stopped buying. Like processed meats with nitrates and mac and cheese. Hmmmm I am going to have to check into this. Maybe he's more sensitive than I thought.

Thanks for bringing that up. IF it is the case it is going to be VERY difficult to get her on board with this. But either she will or he won't be going over...


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## Meg_s

I'm just so happy I had to post, since it related to my spirited son. Normally I take him to a day care like thing for 2-3 hours in the morning, though it's kind of a pain since we don't have a car and it involves an hour of commuting on the bike altogether, and the littlest one doesn't like the trailer. My husband was away on business for the 2nd half of last week, and then is gone again for the first half of this week, and i just haven' tbothered to take him, too tired, too much hassle, which means I've controlled his food 100%. They are not supposed to give him anything that is not on the allowed list, but I suspect they do because of his behaviour, and because of them telling my husband "well we try not to give him raisins, but he loves them so much.. and he is doing so much better so just a few doesn't seem to be hurting" well it was hurting. Anyway, since he has been home and had time to be "desalicylated" (although I have given him peeled apple, and gummy bears but no red ones, and small amounts of carrot in his beef stew) he has been such an incredibly wonderful little guy to be around. Even when he is hungry, even when he is exhausted, he is just AWESOME. We had so many incidents this morning which would normally have been 30-90 minute insane ordeals but they were mere blips, he got upset and then quickly got over it. I love having him so *content*.. this totally makes me want to keep him home for good now. DH and I are falling all over ourselves loving him because he is sweet and OMG affectionate. He's always coming up to me and give me big hugs and kisses, and when I put him to bed he rubs my arm and pats my back and keeps kissing my face and hugging me.


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## Inanna_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmoma* 







: We had the roughest day today with DS. He defintely *feeds off* of our emotions which is part of the problem.











I'm so sorry you had such a difficult day. My DS feeds off my emotions, too. I try to take heart in trusting that it's a sign that he is truly attached, which means we have the potential to be a team - even if most days don't feel like it.

How wonderful to have a day like Meg's to hope for and look forward to!








:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg_s*
He's always coming up to me and give me big hugs and kisses, and when I put him to bed he rubs my arm and pats my back and keeps kissing my face and hugging me.









imbarefoot and sage

Thanks for sharing your list, IMBF. I really need to get on that before I take DS to see my family again at Thanksgiving. It will really be ugly if I'm not prepared this time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sage_SS*
I've oftened wondered if we did something wrong somewhere.. did we teach her to be that loud? By encouraging her to explore and ask questions and find her own answers, did I teach her that I know nothing? When we play with her, did we teach her to be extremely, over the top excitable when she's looking forward to something or really happy? When teaching her never to ostersize anyone, did we teach her to be bossy and try to force kids to do things her way?











Sage, DS is also very loud, bright, strong, and excitable with a clear idea of the way things should be. DH is very patient, gentle, even-keeled and soft spoken. While I'm not as Zen as DH, I'm not off the charts the other direction, either.

I am just a beginner at this parenting thing, but already I am overwhelmed by questions much like those you are asking here. While I want to take responsibility for helping DS become a compassionate, thoughtful, well-adjusted human being; I feel like I also need to accept his unique personality and find ways to help him develop into his own person, which means first letting go of a lot of questions that suggest I've done something wrong.

Of course, I can't say that I'm anywhere near being *able* to do this, but it's something I want to start working on. I bet there are other Mamas here who feel similarly.


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## cmoma

Meg:







Hooray for the happy day!!

I just put myself on the list for the Feingold Cookbook, I want to see how that might change things. Today has been a much nicer day Kepping an eye on his food. Are blueberries salicylated? Anyway so far so good I am even feeling good about him actually getting a nap in today!! I checked out the feingold site and he seems to fall into lots of the catagories for symptoms. Hmmmm...


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## imbarefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmoma* 
At our house there is no hfcs, caffeine aftificial colorings but now that you mention it she does give him yogurt that has hfcs I made a comment about it but I have not made her change it because well when I made the comment about it not being good for you she just gave me a face She seems to do well when I am there about not giving him junk but I know she does not feed him the things that I feed at home well she does but they aret the things I hve stopped buying. Like processed meats with nitrates and mac and cheese. Hmmmm I am going to have to check into this. Maybe he's more sensitive than I thought.

Thanks for bringing that up. IF it is the case it is going to be VERY difficult to get her on board with this. But either she will or he won't be going over...

I think that's a very reasonable request. If she can't abide by your requests for him to eat healthy and safe foods, then you're right, he shouldn't go over there. You know, it didn't go over well with my IL's either at first, but my husband was firm but gentle about it. "It's our child and we don't want to put junk into her. Will are happy to provide you with food when she's in your care, but either way, she cannot have these things." Also, you may want to check that yogurt out that your mom gives him. Unorganic yogurts are notorious for having Red 40 in them if they are red or purple. Also blue ones usually have the blue dye and the yellow ones usually have the yellow dyes. I like Brown Cow yogurt. It's not organic but they use honey for a sweetner, rather than sugar (like the Yobaby uses). And it's amazing how many products they put HFCS in! Graham crackers, cereal, breads, and more! So he def could have consumed some if your mother was feeding him those sorts of things. Children can be very sensitive to those things, I know mine is! So it's not too unusual.

Either way, I hope you are able to sort this out! Hugs!


----------



## imbarefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg_s* 
I'm just so happy I had to post, since it related to my spirited son. Normally I take him to a day care like thing for 2-3 hours in the morning, though it's kind of a pain since we don't have a car and it involves an hour of commuting on the bike altogether, and the littlest one doesn't like the trailer. My husband was away on business for the 2nd half of last week, and then is gone again for the first half of this week, and i just haven' tbothered to take him, too tired, too much hassle, which means I've controlled his food 100%. They are not supposed to give him anything that is not on the allowed list, but I suspect they do because of his behaviour, and because of them telling my husband "well we try not to give him raisins, but he loves them so much.. and he is doing so much better so just a few doesn't seem to be hurting" well it was hurting. Anyway, since he has been home and had time to be "desalicylated" (although I have given him peeled apple, and gummy bears but no red ones, and small amounts of carrot in his beef stew) he has been such an incredibly wonderful little guy to be around. Even when he is hungry, even when he is exhausted, he is just AWESOME. We had so many incidents this morning which would normally have been 30-90 minute insane ordeals but they were mere blips, he got upset and then quickly got over it. I love having him so *content*.. this totally makes me want to keep him home for good now. DH and I are falling all over ourselves loving him because he is sweet and OMG affectionate. He's always coming up to me and give me big hugs and kisses, and when I put him to bed he rubs my arm and pats my back and keeps kissing my face and hugging me.

That's so heartwarming to hear. I hope your family is able to make this work so you can stay home with him. Sounds like that's what's best.


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## imbarefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Inanna_Mama* 









I'm so sorry you had such a difficult day. My DS feeds off my emotions, too. I try to take heart in trusting that it's a sign that he is truly attached, which means we have the potential to be a team - even if most days don't feel like it.

How wonderful to have a day like Meg's to hope for and look forward to!








:








imbarefoot and sage

Thanks for sharing your list, IMBF. I really need to get on that before I take DS to see my family again at Thanksgiving. It will really be ugly if I'm not prepared this time.










Sage, DS is also very loud, bright, strong, and excitable with a clear idea of the way things should be. DH is very patient, gentle, even-keeled and soft spoken. While I'm not as Zen as DH, I'm not off the charts the other direction, either.

I am just a beginner at this parenting thing, but already I am overwhelmed by questions much like those you are asking here. While I want to take responsibility for helping DS become a compassionate, thoughtful, well-adjusted human being; I feel like I also need to accept his unique personality and find ways to help him develop into his own person, which means first letting go of a lot of questions that suggest I've done something wrong.

Of course, I can't say that I'm anywhere near being *able* to do this, but it's something I want to start working on. I bet there are other Mamas here who feel similarly.









I know what you mean. Hugs! We are all on the same journey as you and all doing the best that we can. Keep your head up!









I think that by encouraging and guiding your children to be compassionate, thoughtful and well-adjusted human beings, we aren't not letting them be who they naturally are. I think possessing those traits are important and unfortunately, a lot of children these days lack that. So it's important to me to raise my child with those values, along with values that line up within my faith. At the same time, I think fostering your child's unique personality is just as important. I don't think it's about changing them. But trying to make them more well rounded individuals. Encouraging them to be kind, but also be themselves.

I definitely think you should let go of those questions that make you feel as if you've done something wrong. You are a wonderful mother. I can tell that just by you being right here on this thread, looking for answers, looking for guidance, and admitting that you aren't perfect. None of us are. I think what's important is continuing to learn ourselves and just doing the best that we can. And keeping in mind that if we make a mistake, we need to take responsibility for it (to yourself and to your child) and the move on, without holding major guilt.

Have you looked into parenting classes in your area? I have heard that in some bigger cities (and who knows, possibly in some smaller cities depending on your area) that classes are held for children like ours, spirited children. Classes that encourage gentle and non violent discipline. That's something that I myself want to look into. Because I feel like the more I put myself in a position to learn something, the better a parent I will become. I may take some things and leave others, but I feel that I could benefit from a professional that believes in the same kind of discipline that I do.

Anyway, I hope everyone had a relaxed night tonight. It's been a great night for me because my husband took our daughter to his mothers house for the entire day! 9 hours to myself! My house is actually clean!


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## Meg_s

Unfortunately feingold is outdated, a lot of the foods contain salicylates. Check out the "failsafe" diet. Blackberries have lots







:


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## cmoma

So my sweet boy took a 3 hr nap yesterday: first I was like







: then I was like doing this







:







:







:

We has such a great day yesterday. He ate at home all day yesterday and while I am not yet foloowing the diet he did not ingest any chem's but he did have some blueberries I think....?

TODAY was another story. My nana was in town so she wanted to take the kids and I out for B-fast. DS had french toast (1 slice) with syrup (couple tbsp) and sausages (2 links). Well I wasn't even thinking about it, We came home and he got engaged in his tinker toys trying to buile a race car that was shown on the pamphlet. Well he just started losing it!!! To the same intensity that it was the other night. Just unable to settle down he would listen to me, he wouldn't listent himself. He was going "wacky" I all of a sudden flashed to his breakfast and all the crap he probably just ingested. The syrup alone was probably enough to set him off since it of course was not real.. Anyway I am still not sure if the chems are what are triggering him but after today I definitely going to give it a go. Ohh should also say that he has been doing really well since that episode this morning. Very easy to manage! I love it when he is easy to manage!!

Meg : Are you saying a lot of the foods he reccomends have salysilates? In the cookbook I just got from the library he does state that all berries have them, an are not to be eaten. (this would include blackberries)


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## kayt707

Hi asll I just joined the site for this thread actually. My son is what you would called spirited. He fits so much that I have found on the subject. I am one of those moms that everyone has advice for...and I keep telling them Ive tried it. But no one seems to think I have or I havent been doing it right








Ive also been asked if he has ADD but he just didnt seem to fit that criteria right either. I hope I can pick up a few tricks from you all to make both his and my life a little easier and calmer.


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## Meg_s

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmoma* 

Meg : Are you saying a lot of the foods he reccomends have salysilates? In the cookbook I just got from the library he does state that all berries have them, an are not to be eaten. (this would include blackberries)

I am not 100 certain, I just remember reading that in the past the feingold diet was successful for some, and not others, and the reason was that the food list was not eliminating all of the salicylates, so people who were sensitive enough were not getting the change they needed.

Syrup and sausages







: my son loves sausages, but we're lucky enough to have an organic butcher who makes them for us with absolutely no additives of any kind, and seasoned with just salt. I believe pure maple syrup is ok! My son eats french toast for breakfast, usually 1 or 2 eggs, white bread with no [reservatives or additives or dairy (we're in europe so easy to find) saturated to the fullest with the eggs, and cooked in butter oil that I've made in advance to get rid of the casein. I sprinkle a little sugar on it. The bread and sugar makes me cringe, but he EATS it and is getting important fat and protein.

I also make "apple cake" which is eggs and just a little flour in the blender, then all in the frying pan with plenty of paper thin sliced apple. To make a thick cake just make plenty of the pancake type flats and pile them on top of each other and slice.

For lunch and dinner we do a lot of crock pot dishes that are delicious for all of us, and safe for him to eat. eg: stew beef, carrots, leek, celeriac, stewed for about 24 hours. I add the butter oil and some peeled boiled white potato to his since it's pretty low fat. Sweet and sour pork is also delicious. Simmer pork belly (fresh side) for a long time with some vinegar water and a little sugar. Before serving, thicken with a little tapioca starch, and for the grownups I add chopped scallion.


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## cmoma

kayt707: HI and welcome!

So I found this link: http://eklhad.net/foods/foods9.html

Which talks about the difference between the feingold and the failsafe. Basically the Feingold's salicylates list is based upon information from parents saying this food (ie: grapes) makes my son off the wall. As opposed to the Failsafe which tested the foods for salicylates and came up with many more foods that contain them. So I guess trying feingold first to see if you child is reacting to the more common foods would be a good place to start them moving to failsafe if you are not seeing any improvements. Anyway just thought I would share.

I also wanted to add the DH is thankfully on board with this whole food change thing. Which is great but having him backing me when I have to tell the mil is really great! She's going to be watching him Friday. I'm just going to bring food for him....

How would you tell her what we are doing. I want it to make sense to her when I say it and sometimes I get a little worked up telling her things like this. Any suggestions??


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## kayt707

A litle more on my son.
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

He is so outgoing and has no fear of things. He has been speech delayed. He talks all the time but it seems to be in his own language. He has gotten good about asking for things...over and over again, but trying to have a conversation with him is really difficult. I feel like theres something wrong that Im doing but dont know what else to do.

Hes very independent. He just does so many things for himself. Which is good in one way but also dangerous at times. Trying to get him to understand that he cant do those things is impossible. At preschool if the door to the classroom is locked he will run through the office and kitchen to the back door of the classroom to let himself in. Great problem solving but obviously dangerous.

Sometimes it feels like you just cant get his attention because he is so intent on what he is doing.

My aunt refers to him as a force of nature.

when he gets frustrated over something though we have complete melt down. To the extent that there is no way to figure out what is wrong because he cant stop his crying to tell you anything. I think that he ends up upset not because of what ever happened but because hes upset.

Sometimes I just feel like Im at my wits end. Im been told to be stricter, to try all these different techniques, which I have but they either dont work or make it worse. Ive been asked if he has ADD, I have to admit Ive worried about that myself...but he just doesn't fit the profile for it. I knew that he wasnt just your average active toddler though when the other parents at pre-school would look at me and say wow you really have your hands full.

I want to go find the book you all are talking about because Im hoping that it will give me some ideas that will help both of us.


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## Meg_s

Kayt707 I just wanted to say how alike our guys sound.
The way it works for me is that when DS is salicylated he is impossible. IMPOSSIBLE. Everything you mentioned - getting caught in those repetitive cycles, getting frustrated literally all of the time, and just crying so hard that he can't even say what he wants anymore, and he can't stop crying.. the not going to sleep, ADD wondering, even the speech delay. I don't think ds is delayed, but he seems to have less words (in a single language, he's bilingual) than some other kids his age that I know. But once he is free of those chemicals he changes, he is just as energetic and willful - but he's able to understand more it seems, and is also willing to compromise. Like, first we do t his and THEN you can get what you were asking for. He's willing to be distracted sometimes, and he he seems to be content inside, rather than full of frustration and even rage. It\s hard to explain the difference, it's just that my TRUE son is really fun to be around (though exhausting and extremely willful) and my son on salicylates is awful. Makes me question why I became a mother. I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."


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## cmoma

I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."










Except we use "CRAZY"







: LOL!

well we are doing our best limiting foods and so far so good







There are still things in the house he can't have so when he requests them I have just been reminding him that we think he has an allergy to those foods or rather whats in them. He seems ok so far with that answer not questioning it too much yet. Though he has gotten a bit upset about not being able to eat something (i forget?) But since he isn't eating the chems he can "handle" it. YAY!!!!


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## VijayOwens

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kayt707* 
A litle more on my son.
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

He is so outgoing and has no fear of things. He has been speech delayed. He talks all the time but it seems to be in his own language. He has gotten good about asking for things...over and over again, but trying to have a conversation with him is really difficult. I feel like theres something wrong that Im doing but dont know what else to do.

Hes very independent. He just does so many things for himself. Which is good in one way but also dangerous at times. Sometimes it feels like you just cant get his attention because he is so intent on what he is doing.

My aunt refers to him as a force of nature.

Sometimes I just feel like Im at my wits end. Im been told to be stricter, to try all these different techniques, which I have but they either dont work or make it worse. Ive been asked if he has ADD, I have to admit Ive worried about that myself...but he just doesn't fit the profile for it. I knew that he wasnt just your average active toddler though when the other parents at pre-school would look at me and say wow you really have your hands full.

This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay


----------



## kayt707

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VijayOwens* 
This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay

I so understand. I cant tell you all what a difference just knowing that im not alone is. The preschool that he goes to is great, they are very good at guiding the children( instead of just corraling them or ordering them), it is a playbased cirriculum, and all the snacks are organic. But even there they dont seem to understand some of the trials. DS has found out that if he goes through the office , through the Kitchen he can reach the other rooms. So he does. I had signed him in and was trying to talk to the teacher about something. He ran again. He had been out in the play yard with the assistant. The director came and told me that we have to be very strict about it with him because its dangerous. I agree, I try to talk to him and and his immediate response is no and laughs. She came down hard on me and I left feeling like the worst parent in the world. I know that he can be difficult but Deep inside I know there isnt a medical condition or just bad kid. If anything I feel like some how Ive done the wrong things...even though Ive tried it all. I bought the book on raising a spirited child and hope that will give me some clues to help us communicate and work together instead of combatting each other.


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## MyBaby'sSmile

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VijayOwens* 
but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

Quote
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH


----------



## kayt707

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyBaby'sSmile* 
The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

Quote
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH

Thanks Ill give that a try. I have been having a bit more success with massaging the muscles in his legs, arms and back. It seems to help him relax better. Im still staying until he falls asleep though otherwise he just jolts himself back up but the 1-2 hour struggles are now 20 mins or under. That is saving a little sanity. The funny thing with him is that he will fight it so hard for so long and then the instant he stops he falls into a sound sleep. Today was a much better day. I dont know if some of it is that im having a better understanding and dealing with it differently or just one of those lucky days but we havent had a day like this in a long time. It was by no means perfect but so much better. Thanks for all the support!


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## sassyaztec

Okay mommas, jumping in....

DS is 3.5 and spirited. But after reading other posts, I guess we actually have it easy?? Although my DH and friends would disagree








We are pretty fortunate in that our preschool is a coop and I LOOOOVE his teachers. It's playbased and his past teacher and I are now friends and his current teacher is GREAT with him and is my source of encouragement. She reminds me "Progress is what we are looking for". I'm our class mom so I am pretty involved with what is going on.

Anyway, sleep is what gets most affected for him and then WATCH OUT! But for the most part when I get him down for the night he is good and he takes a 2-3 hr nap daily, well 99% of the time. He didn't start sleeping through the night until last year when his sister was born-thankfully. but it was a looooong process with No Cry as my bible. Now it still takes a while for him to wind down, but it's fine and I like the quiet time with him reading and rocking/singing and cuddling. But I also realize that he NEEDS his sleep, as I do, unfortunately.

I've been reading Raising your spirit child and really like it. I've tried a bunch of ideas and have seen a difference, I just need to remember to do it more often. He likes to argue and hates anything new- he really freaks out. His energy level is super high and is a tactile learner and into everything. He really wears me out and I become a screamer







totally bums me out.

We are semi healthy, organic, natural etc. for some things. I really don't know where to start. I know preservatives and dyes. anyone have a cheat sheet? I just feel overwhelmed with trying to find info and we are in a sleep situation right now-- he's waking up at 3/4 a.m. every morning and fighting naps (which isn't normal). so I am beat, have little down time and DH is really busy with work right now. Actually got to finally post because DD is still asleep at 9 a.m. totally unheard of for my son. 7 is late for him







but I hear her cooing, so I'm am out of here.

Thanks mommas for sharing and reminding me I am not a horrible mom and not alone! I love this site!


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## Spritesmom

Mama's - we are desperate!! DD's (7) tantrums are getting out of our control. We cannot let her "safely" have them - she turns into an animal and I say that with the greatest of love for her - she is unintelligible so fast now that we don't have a chance of figuring out what she wants/needs.







: She is not violent towards us or herself but she is heading in that direction. What "professional" do we take her to? And how do I make sure that "they" don't break her spirit? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!


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## MyBaby'sSmile

Hugs Spritesmom, I wish I had an answer for you.

Does anyone else have trouble getting their spirited child to eat? It can take ds ages to actually eat anything. He plays, daydreams etc. It isn't that he doesn't like the food. I don't think he has ever actually refused to eat anything but turnip because of the taste. He just doesn't want to feed himself. If we want him to eat we end up feeding him. At 5.5! But if we don't do that he doesn't eat. Then he is hungry later. I don't want to start that practice. He does always have a bedtime snack but I don't want that to replace his supper.

Anyone else have food challenges?


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## SusannahM

Krista (mybaby'ssmile), we have that issue. Phoenix likes to eat slowly, play at eating, "savor" her desserts, etc. It's hard to get her to eat. I really don't think it has that much to do with being spirited, I've talked to many people who have this issue with their toddlers.

To be honest, to solve the problem (plus, there is the problem that her naps run 11:00 to about 2:00), we eat about 5 meals throughout the day now instead of 3, and all are healthy. Breakfast, lunch (really early, about 10:30), afternoon meal, dinner, before bed meal. DH and I actually like eating this way better (he works from home so eats all meals with us), too, so that's what works for all of us.


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## beanma

spritesmom, you might check out "the explosive child" book by ross greene. lots of good tips there and he really knows what you're talking about when you say tantrum! he has a website here -- http://www.ccps.info/, but i think the book is better than the website.

hth


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## aran

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spritesmom* 
Mama's - we are desperate!! DD's (7) tantrums are getting out of our control. We cannot let her "safely" have them - she turns into an animal and I say that with the greatest of love for her - she is unintelligible so fast now that we don't have a chance of figuring out what she wants/needs.







: She is not violent towards us or herself but she is heading in that direction. What "professional" do we take her to? And how do I make sure that "they" don't break her spirit? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Haven't read the whole thread, but we have this problem. For me, it would have to get much worse before I would take DS1 to any "professional" for the very reason you state. When DS1 tantrums/screams/flails unintelligibly, our approach has been to get down to his level, acknowledge his frustration loudly enough so that he can hear, but nicely (something like, "you seem so frustrated! I want to help but I can't understand. I am ready to help but I need you to speak clearly in a normal voice so I can understand what happened"), and hold him until he expends all that wild energy and can speak again. Later when things are calm, we talk a lot about how to deal with frustration better. I am satisfied with this, and I think if we keep doing it, he'll eventually get the picture. I don't know if you could try this approach (or already have!) but just wanted to share. For DH and me the big challenge is to not get caught up in the emotional tidal wave, but just stay calm.


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## pitchfork

Hi Mamas,
I am so grateful to have found this thread I could cry. DS 21 mos hit's pretty much every trait on all the lists, is bright, but just can't turn off, body or mind. We eat an almost all org diet, with no processed foods (DH has food sensitivities) no artificial colors or anything like that. He does have goat yogurt...but I had never heard of the salycilates I will read up.

He also has "sensory issues", we are in early intervention because of them, although I have avoided an actual diagnoses, since we have the services and I want to avoid the labels.

It can take him up to 2 hours to fall asleep, and that is with both parents with him when possible, after a calming bedtime routine. 1.25 hours is average, kicking, jumping all the way. MyBabysSmile, do you do that routine AS bedtime, right before he falls asleep? I do some brushing (but DS doesn't like it much) and some joint compression, but not what you talk about with the ball, etc)

We have the LOW LOW tolerance for frustration, and we started seeing tantrums at 10 months when he could understand something and couldn't do it, like trying to fit a pot lid onto a pot that didn't quite fit. Some days the tantrums barely had 1/2 hour between them. He HATES clothing, diapers (we've ECed, partly because he couldn't stand them) and some days can't even get out of the house because of this. His persistence is the key, if I put the clothes on him even if he says no, he does not get over it, he screams and pulls at them until I take them off. I feel so permissive, when that happens, but I have to respect him, he will not settle for anything less, so we have to find a way to make what I need (ie to get dressed to get out of the house) acceptable. I usually have to make it fun, he's too intense and bright for distraction, he just catches on too quick.

I've read "Parenting your Spirited Child" and we're doing a lot of it, but still there are days I just cry from sheer exhaustion and from the horrible bad advice I get or advice I imagine people are thinking, it makes me feel so ALONE!

We're big believers in letting him have the tantrum, supporting him through the feelings, although I'm afraid he could really hurt himself arching backward into things, hitting or biting himself, and pulling out his hair by the clumps







:. One thing I like that the PYSC book says is that spirited children sometimes need to be called back to reality from such strong explosions, because they can work themselves up to where they don't know how to stop. I remember feeling this way as a child.

Thanks for being there Mamas!


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## MyBaby'sSmile

Yes pitchfork, we did it immediately before bed. Most people advocate setting a calming routine for children, bath, books, bed etc. Baths wired ds up like you wouldn't believe. Then I read somewhere on MDC that children with SID actually need a bit of revving up before bed. Things like swinging (you make a swing with your arms by clasping hands together and dc sits on your hands), bouncing on the bed rigourously, and others that I can't recall at the moment. The ball bouncing was best for us because he was older and too big for arm swinging







I put him in his jammies first and had him ready for bed. The first week I would do this as long as I had the energy to bounce him, so maybe 20 mins.? Then we did the joint compression while he sat on his bed and he helped me count to 10 for each section we worked on. Then in to bed for a couple of books. For him it really only took a couple of weeks and made a huge difference. Very quickly we stopped having to do it and then only did it once in a while if he was very hyper at bedtime.

The salicalytes that bother my son are found in apples, grapes, mangos, bananas and I'm guessing the preservatives found in Vit. A in some rice milks. Not sure about that one but one rice milk in particular really caused some issues here.

You sound like you are doing a great job. It is hard. Very hard. But I am very happy to say that we are seeing some huge, wonderful changes in ds! Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions!


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## timneh_mom

I haven't read the whole thread either (I'll work on that) but I just picked up the book from the library this week and when I was reading it, I kept saying, OMG, this is EXACTLY like DS!!! I thought it was just him, or us, or something... but to find out it's normal for some kids? And that there are other kids out there like DS? I couldn't believe it!!!

He is so intense and energetic, he resists change (especially if he has to end play or something he is really enjoying), he fights with DH all the time, presses his buttons, instead of crashing like "normal" kids, he gets more and more wound and it gets uglier and uglier til we stop him! As soon as we cuddle in bed with him, he's out like a light. Sleep has never been a favored activity and he used to be up for hours in the middle of the night when he was a baby.

It doesn't help that DD is 8 months old, I spent 4 months recovering from mono because she doesn't sleep either... I don't think I want any more kids because I just can't handle this any more!!!







: I am always sick because I am always tired and I can't get any more sleep, it's really hard and some days I just want to quit...


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## BeBe123

Hi mamas! Just wanted to say that i'm so happy there's a thread like this! I have a very spirites DD. She's 3. It's good to know i'm not alone. Thats all.


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## croleRN

Hello mamas!!! Man do I need this thread. (Haven't read the whole thing yet)
DD is definately spirited. I was reading the 5 characteristics to my mom last night, and she couldn't believe how accurate it was for DD1. I guess what I have gotten so far is - I am excited to see how her strengths help her as she becomes older. I think she will be an amazing grown person. But I need to feel how to appreciate it more now. Four is rough anyway you look at it. But four with a spirited child is downright hairpulling at times.!!! I look forward to watching this thread!


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## theirmomjayne

I've wanted to read this book for the longest time.........will be watching this thread with interest.


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## pauletoy

I too have a spirited ds. I have read through this thread and the is just a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all of the useful tips.


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## Peacemamalove

Hi,
I just picked up the book today!! So far all I can say is WOW!! This is just like my DS!! Hopefully I can get a chance to read some of it this afternoon....


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## kellykins

:
OH mamas.
I am in the drained-worn-tired-run over by a truck feeling camp with my dd.
I started reading the book, got a few chapters in, but then found out they have an audio version and checked that out at the library... It was quite a while ago now, and I think I need to re-check it out.
I think I will post in another thread about my day so far, its a bit long winded... has alot to do with Katelyn either not listening or throwing herself on the floor into major tantrum land because I *need* her to listen and I make xyz happen, after several times of asking her not to.. and sometimes "barking" at her to not do xyz... (throwing food down when eating or dumping it all off the plate = scoop it up and get her down from her chair... climbing up the steep, rocky, dangerous hill while I am scooping dog poop (ew) = I come up and take her by the hand or pick her up if I can and get us both down the hill)

I am really trying... I want to allow her to make choices and let her express her apparently super intense need for independence, but there is a point when it comes down to it, I am mama, she is child, she needs to listen and follow what I say when she is doing things that are not acceptable, you know? I gotta admit, it really makes my blood boil and it (my lack of patience? temper? my own spirited-ness?) makes me bark/yell and sometimes be less than gentle when I am say, removing her from a situation.









Let me go back to the beginning of the thread and do some label changing...

wired ---> high energy
stubborn ---> ???
emotional/drama queen ---> someone else said passionate--excellent one!
I donno if independent is a "good" label or not? I guess it depends on the situation/mood?

I am really struggling with this. She is very very bright and has been a joy to be with most of the time - but lately all I can remember are "those" moments.


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## Spritesmom

I'm sooo glad to hear about the tantrums!!







: (Sorry!!) I've been thinking that my DD (7) is the only one doing this at this age!!! We're finding that she is much easier to "handle" if she eats well. We go organic/natural as much as we can afford and try to avoid additives and preservatives. Red 40 is a killer!! Absolutely NO RED FOOD is permitted in this child!! Tantrums started at the beginning of this past summer. Sooo much fun!! Picked her up from camp and the minute she hit the car







:... problem is now DS (10) has figured out that tantrums get a lot of attention so he's started. I WANT TO HAVE ONE!!!







We've nipped DS's in the bud. He is still angry that DD gets too much attention - working on that. Taking DD to a PT next week. Two friends have had good results with this one so we are really, really hoping. One friends DD is in my DD's class and she is brushing her skin every two hours - don't know much about this - yet- but it is really helping. Problem is THE SCHOOL!!?!







:She goes down to the nurse to do this and they want a "diagnosis" and want the school psychologist to "evaluate" her. The DD just needs to be in the bathroom for about 10 minutes. It works out she misses a little gym, a little recess and a little computer time. This is only for 30 days. If you are dealing with a private doctor, why is all that necessary? This child and mine are perfectly fine in school. Both get good grades and the teachers "like" them. What is the school going to do with the "evaluation"? No one wants their child labeled, especially when the school had no clue about these kids. Well- as usual - I'm loaded for bear.







: We'll see next week.


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## Spritesmom

Mama's!! I've already posted this to the Tribe - check it out!! PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!Our session got moved to last night. This woman knows exactly what we are going through!!!







She treats mainly Spirited/Active Alerts!! Why oh why don't the kids doc. know about this? Well - mine is going to now! 30 days, Mama's! Just 30 days! DD actually went to sleep AT 8:00!!! I mean she was out!! We've only done the Sleep Program tonight!! Needless to say - we are thrilled. Next session is Tuesday and she will "play" with DD as all the paperwork/history is done. We may get our sex life back after all!!







:







:


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## timneh_mom

Bumping this!!


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## bob smith.

hippymomma69 said:


> sensory seeking = tactily (sp?) gifted
> stubborn = knows her own mind
> rigid = not easily swayed
> controlling = attentive to detail
> nudist = body confident
> language delayed = efficient with words
> short attention span = aware of her environment
> 
> thanks, that was theraputic for me! LOL
> peace,
> robyn


Yes.


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