# circumcision help!



## tcowgirl (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi Mamas!

When my newborn was circumcised, noone told me I have to push down on the foreskin and now it's grown together! my pedi isn't knowledgable/doesn't care and said the foreskin "usually falls off when they're 4 years old". Does anyone know if this is true??


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Uh, no. Foreskins do not fall off.

You can get some help here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44

I am unsure of how to care for a circumcised penis (my son is intact, or uncircumcised) but I'm pretty sure you can just leave it alone. Post a question in the forum I posted above. They'll be able to help you.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Leave it alone. And please, for the sake of your next kid, DON'T SLICE AND DICE.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm confused. Do you mean when your newborn wasn't circumcised? The foreskin is removed with circumcision, so I'm not sure what has grown together.

If you are asking if you were supposed to retract the foreskin, definitely not! The forum that the previous poster linked to is a great place to get information about circumcision and about how to care for an intact penis, if that's what you're looking for. If your son was not circumcised, the foreskin will never fall off, but it will eventually retract on its own. That may be what the doctor meant.

Congratulations on the birth of your son! It looks like you're fairly new to this board--welcome to MDC!!!


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

No, the foreskin never "falls off". It remains attached to the shaft unless it's surgically removed. I'm confused. Is your son circumcised and now he has adhesions or is he intact (uncircumcised) and you're asking about retracting (pushing back) the natural foreskin? If it's the latter, you should never retract the foreskin to clean, nobody should retract your son except himself when he's older. The foreskin will naturally retract as he gets older - 4 - 5 yrs is quite typical but it can be much earlier or much later, it varies boy to boy.

If you had him circumcised as an infant and now the skin is starting to stick to the glans (head) of the penis, please just leave it alone. The body is trying to heal itself. Breaking those adhesions will hurt him. The skin will stretch and grow as your son grows and it'll take care of itself.
You may want to post your question in "the case against circumcision" sub-forum where lots of knowledgeable people can give you advice.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Holy Crap if he said that he isnt a real Dr. cant be because there is no such thing as it falling off. Geez thought I had heard everything but there is always something new apparently.

His body has healed itself after being damaged unless he cant pee leave it alone. Poor little guy


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

I just saw this in "New Posts" and wanted to reply.

PLEASE visit the "Case against Circumcision" forum on this board. I'm not sure I understand your question, but you should find more info there. However, most of the parents in this community are against - or at least question - the practice of genital mutilation.


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## txbikegrrl (Jul 20, 2006)

Although I did not circumcise DS not part of the case against group and just wanted to add that I understand how daunting and/or irritating it can be to deal with uninformed medical "professionals" regarding this issue. It sounds like the first thing you (OP) need to do is read a little about circumcision look at pix and make sure your son really was circed (or not) then go from there asking more specific questions. So if he was circed the foreskin will not move around on the penis but may be trying to heal itself. Not sure what would "fall off" in a few years. I would call back and ask the doc for more info. Have them write it down if you are too overwhelmed to understand right now. I was very hormonal after birth so nothing stuck in my head. If you do not get a good response from the doc's office -- switch.


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## thatblondegirl (Jan 16, 2008)

i think that what you are describing is that the skin is now adhering to the head of his penis. which means that your son likely had a loose circ. the skin will retract on it's own as he grows. i'd say leave it alone.


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## txgal (Jul 16, 2003)

I just don't get it, why do people choose to do this to their precious babies?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Moving to the circ forum..


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blythe #1*
Having skin adhesions from circumcisions is actually pretty common. It is not a "loose" circumcision. Most of the MDC people are against circumcision and don't have a lot of medical info on caring for a circumcized penis. I'm not against circumcision so I did have my son circumcized and I know exactly what you are talking about. My son had penile adhesions as well and I believe still does at 21 months. It is when the foreskin from the shaft attaches to the base (rim) of the head. Only part of the foreskin is actually removed in a circumcision. The part covering the head of the penis. The foreskin on the shaft is left. Your doctor was wrong in saying that the foreskin will "fall off" at around 4 yrs. old. There's no such thing as foreskin falling off. To help you understand more about adhesions here is my ds's story: At ds's 9 month checkup I mentioned to the doc. that I noticed some white stuff at the base of ds's shaft which looking back I think was just smegma. Anyways, the doctor ended up noticing that the foreskin from the shaft had attaced to the base of the head where you could no longer see the base rim of the head. He proceeded to pull the foreskin adhesion away from the head. My DS screamed and screamed. The doc claimed oh, it doesn't hurt him anymore than me giving him a shot or something. That was a bunch of BS. That was the one and only time I ever saw that doctor. My husband was in between jobs at the time and we were living with his parents temporarily so I thought it would be okay to use a family doctor instead of a pediatrician for just one checkup. By the next day the adhesion was back. I called my ds's old pediatrician who I trusted (and still do) back in OK where we had moved from. We were still in the process of selling our house in OK so I made an appt. to see my old ped. in OK and drove 3 hrs. to see him with DS. I took care of some house stuff while I was there. My ped. said that yes, pulling the adhesion definitely hurts. He pulled it a little bit and put some vaseline on it. He said that some peds. leave adhesions alone and some peds. (including him) continue to pull apart the adhesion until the child is 12 months old and apply vaseline in hopes of preventing the adhesion from coming back and getting worse. After 12 months he just leaves it alone and waits for it to correct itself which is usually does. He said that sometime later maybe 4 or 5 years old as the penis grows and becomes harder when it gets erect than it did it past then eventually the adhesion will break from the head from the stretching of the erection. He said you might hear your little boy scream all of a sudden and then you go check on him to find a little bit of blood in his underwear from where the adhesion broke free. So at this appt. with the old ped. he pulled ds's adhesion a little (he wasn't rough like that dumb family doctor), applies vaseline, and instructed me to continue to apply vaseline with each diaper change. It didn't work. Within a week ds's adhesion was back. I think that a lot of the time little baby boys have those adhesions and the mom isn't ever aware of it at all. I noticed that my nephew who is 18 months old also has them and his ped. has never said anything about the adhesion at all. As far as I know peds. do not instruct moms to pull down the foreskin on the shaft away from the head after the circumcision to prevent adhesions. Most adhesions will correct themselves as the boy gets older like I said but there are rare cases where it does not correct itself and the boy has to be recircumcized. Hope all this info was of some help to you!

Welcome to the Case Against Circumcision. Actually, if you spend some time here and read through past posts, you will see that many of us in fact DO have a lot of knowledge about caring for circumcised penises as these questions come up all. the. time. We get posts probably weekly about adhesions.

The best available medical evidence says to leave the adhesions alone. They will resolve over time. The adhesions are the result of the penis trying to heal itself and trying to re-establish the normal, natural adhesions that were ripped apart during the circumcision, leaving two wound surfaces.

For example: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1436110

Lysing means forcibly separating, whether manually or with an instrument.

Also, even if the adhesions do not resolve, re-circumcision is NOT necessary. That will only make the boy's penis worse off, with future serious side effects such as insufficient skin to accommodate erections, leading to skin splits, bowing of the penis, etc. At most, if the circumcision adhesions failed to resolve over time (like teenage years), a steroid cream could be used to soften them, manual stretching could be done, surgery to separate the adhesions if absolutely necessary....but a re-circumcision? Unnecessary.

I hope you will take some time to learn more about the structure and function of the foreskin, and leave any future boys intact. The foreskin is a highly sensitive, highly functional part of the penis. Next time, why not let your son make the decision about his own body? There's a lot that your doctor probably didn't tell you about what circumcision does to the penis.

http://research.cirp.org


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blythe #1* 
Having skin adhesions from circumcisions is actually pretty common. It is not a "loose" circumcision.

And you know that because...?

Skin adhesions are in fact the result of loose circumcisions. The tight circs of the past did not create those problems, because there wasn't enough foreskin left to reattach to the glans. This also meant lots of problems for adult males who had little skin left to grow into during an erection, therefore circs today are looser.

Quote:

Most of the MDC people are against circumcision and don't have a lot of medical info on caring for a circumcized penis.
Actually, most MDC people in this forum have a lot of medical info on caring for the PENIS, and on normal and proper penile development. That's why you'll hear people here telling you to leave the adhesions alone - just as the AAP says - whereas "in the real world" doctors don't seem to have a unified answer on how to treat the problem, so some yank and tear them apart at every visit (thus creating more scar tissue), some advise parents to do the yanking and tearing and vaseline-applying, and FEW others actually know what the heck they are supposed to do - Nothing.

Quote:

I'm not against circumcision so I did have my son circumcized
What if your son realizes what circumcision is as he matures and HE is against it? Too late for him, though.....







I hope you hang around here long enough and ask some questions.

Quote:

The foreskin _on the shaft_ is left.
Foreskin is technically the skin that hangs BEFORE the penis. In the medical world, it's the skin that covers the glans. The rest of the skin your son has is shaft skin, not foreskin.

Quote:

There's no such thing as foreskin falling off.
Except for in a Plastibell circ, right? It certainly falls off then.

Quote:

My son had penile adhesions as well and I believe still does... at 21 months....continue to pull apart the adhesion...Within a week ds's adhesion was back.
Do you understand WHY it keeps coming back? At birth, the penis has not completed its development. Circumcision - baring the glans before it is meant to be bared - is like prying open a rosebud to see the rose. In both instances, you damage what God/Nature has created. The child's glans is not meant to be exposed (it's an internal organ and is ONLY meant to be exposed upon arousal), therefore skinning it of its protective flesh creates a defense mechanism in the body where whatever skin is left tries to reattach itself, and the traumatized glans tries to toughen itself since it is without its protective cover. Thus, adhesions.

You realize that in a newborn, the foreskin is tightly fused to the glans, right? It takes some force to tear the skin off the penis in order to cut it away....however, that fusion slowly breaks away over time as the child grows and the penis completes its development. That's one thing I never understood about our circumcising culture. It's like we are so impatient to see that head we just can't wait until the penis is done developing (and after which the child will see it as much as he likes), so we tear the flesh off it in a child's infancy in order to bare it. Time would have given everyone the same results - with the added bonus of skin that has been shown to be one of the most erogenous parts of the penis.

Quote:

there are rare cases where it does not correct itself and the boy has to be recircumcized. Hope all this info was of some help to you!
Not true at all. Circumcision is the solution for a ped who doesn't know what to do other than cut more off the penis. The gentle, un-invasive approach would be steroid creams first. Then gentle stretching. Re-circumcision shouldn't be the first answer to an adhesion problem because it isn't an answer.


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## tcowgirl (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks everyone, I hadn't educated myself or given much thought about circumsising pre-birth & in the hosp the dr said 85% of people do it so I agreed, but now (post birth, being educated & seeing that horrific video of what they do) wish of course that I hadn't agreed.

that said, now I have to deal with it and i want to do the best I can not to screw him up anymore.

what he has is exactly what you wrote (quirky) - penile adhesions. i was googling it about 2 weeks ago and online places said i'd have to rip the adhesions apart (which is just cruel and unusual) but I didn't have any direction from my dr and that's all i had to go by so I did and he didn't cry but he winced and it tore (god, this is aweful) some of the skin on his glans. I cried and cried and then wrote into you guys. (called the doctor & they said to continue to push down the foreskin) I feel so horrible I hope he doesn't have scar tissue because of that. (of course i'm going to leave it alone now - my poor kiddo)

i wish (1) i had educated myself about it before i had him (but we didn't know he was going to be a boy) - but too late for that and (2) i wish I would've had some SOME guidence in how to care for it. (dr was no help / didn't care / wasn't knowledgeable) I was searching GOOGLE for guidence for God's sake...

In that link you gave (quirky, thankyou!!) it says:

Based on our results we do not recommend lysing penile adhesions, except perhaps those involving the circumcision line.

what does that mean? the circumcision line?

....and if it hurts a 4 year old when his glans starts to push up through the foreskin (even if they are circumcised), would it help lessen the pain if i gently push on it before then?

....as i understand it, as a baby boy gets older (if he's circumcised), the foreskin & all that shaft skin doesn't grow - only the penis grows and as it does it kind of "grows into" itself until the glans & rim are no longer hidden by the shaftskin/foreskin anymore... and it'll eventually look like a "normal" circumcised penis - is that right?

(I know uncircumcised is the norm - I just couldn't think of another way to describe that)


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

tcowgirl, I don't have any advice about how to care for your son in this circumstance unfortunately but I just don't want you to walk away from this feeling like the Worst Mom in the World or something. None of us are perfect and gawd knows I've done some things as a parent that I would rather take back. I just wanted to direct you to this thread so you might find some comfort and know you're not alone in being a GREAT mom who happened to have her son circumcised http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410 best of luck to you and your little guy. You'll both be just fine.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:

....and if it hurts a 4 year old when his glans starts to push up through the foreskin (even if they are circumcised), would it help lessen the pain if i gently push on it before then?
The difference is once he starts to age the foreskin in this case remnant, will start to release on its own as he ages. So no it wouldnt help lessen the pain to push on it now. All that will do is cause scare tissue resulting in even more loss of senstation.

Quote:

....as i understand it, as a baby boy gets older (if he's circumcised), the foreskin & all that shaft skin doesn't grow - only the penis grows and as it does it kind of "grows into" itself until the glans & rim are no longer hidden by the shaftskin/foreskin anymore... and it'll eventually look like a "normal" circumcised penis - is that right?
There is no way to know how much the penis will grow so no way to know if it will ever look like the typical circed penis. If he is lucky he will have enough skin that it bunches up a lot when he is flacid and when erect the skin will move. Instead of being pulled so tight it wont.

Quote:

Based on our results we do not recommend lysing penile adhesions, except perhaps those involving the circumcision line.

what does that mean? the circumcision line?
Here is a picture of a "mild" skin bridge aka adhesion that is on the circ line and is attached to the glans. Some men choose to not have them fixed like my dh while others have it fixed because it can cause pain.







*Warning Graphic*







http://www.noharmm.org/images/penis-bridge1.gif This picture is of a horrible case of adhesions on the circ line to the glans http://www.noharmm.org/images/skinbridge2.jpg

In either case you cannot know it is a true adhesion until puberty since the hormones will release most of them without help. No point in doing it before then because you dont know if it would have gotten better or not. Now the exception to this would be your ds coming to you saying it hurts then you might consider having the adhesion fixed but dont allow them to cut more off all that needs to be done is a little snip in the trouble spot.

And before any cutting there is stretching and steroid creams to try.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Adhesion links:
Adhesions: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Adheasions: http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/adhesions.htm

Adhesions: http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/ponsky2/

Adhesions: http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/...il.cfm?id=3420

Adhesions: http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_d...NC&sub_cat=474

Adhesions: http://www.henryfordhealth.org/19160.cfm

Adhesions: http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

Adhesions: http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/persad/


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

First, I want to say I fully agree with the information Quirky, Sancta and MCatLvrMom have written. I am only writing to provide additional detail.

First the "why" of this happening. Until 1990 and even after 120 years of circumcising males, doctors finally realized that tight circumcisions were causing significant problems for adult males. These tight circumcisions were not leaving sufficient skin sleeve to accomodate their erections. Around the early 1990's, they begain a change to loose circumcisions but these circumcisions have a set of problems all their own. They are just realized much earlier. The problem is that 80% of circumcisions are performed by OB/GYNs who will never see the results of their work and never become aware of the problems they are creating so these loose circumcisions continue. Hopefully it won't be another 120 years before they change their ways and realize "there is no right way to do a wrong thing."

Now on to the "what" has happened. At birth and for sometimes many years afterward, the foreskin is bonded to the glans the same way the fingernails are bonded to the nail beds. Even the bonding tissue is the same, the epithelial layer or synecchia. When a child is circumcised, this bonding layer has to be pulled apart and the child's body sees this as an injury. The healing process tries to put the area back to as close as possible to the normal condition by re-establishing the bond, thus adhesions. These adhesions can happen remarkably fast. They can start to form between diaper changes and they can even form through heavy coatings of Vaseline! Each time these adhesions are pulled apart, it is like pulling a wound apart and can be very painful for the child and they can persist for years. I have seen reports of mothers battling these adhesions in 7 year olds! I can imagine this daily pain could have some very severe psychological consequences for the child. Certainly I have seen mothers report that even their infants become very protective of their penis during diaper changes when this is done.

Now,the "what to do." In intact children, the bond between the foreskin and glans disolves when the normal time for the foreskin becomes retractile. Research shows that the average age for this is about 10 years old. A circumcised child with epithelial adhesions will probably see the adhesions resolve much earlier. It seems that the average age is between 3 and 5 years old but there has been no definitive research that I know of. The best course of action is to let nature take it's course and for the adhesions to naturally disolve. Forcing the adhesions apart runs the risk of damaging the surface of the glans possibly resulting in scar adhesions which will not disolve. It also runs the potential of opening a wound that would be susceptible to infection.

Frank


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

I can't add to the wonderful advice you've gotten so far, but I want to express my anger and disgust with your doctors. First of all, they should have told you that adhesions were a distinct possibility before you ever signed the consent form for the surgery. Even if they gave you incorrect care advice at that point (which they obviously did), you could have looked up "penile adhesions" for yourself, and saved you and your son a lot of agony.

Perhaps if they had been honest with you about the complications before the operation, you might have had enough information to decline the operation in the first place.

Doctors have NO business pushing infant circumcision on new parents! I strongly believe that it shouldn't even be brought up in the hospital - if parents want it done, they should have to work pretty hard to make it happen. Tcowgirl, you and your son were (are) victims of a screwed-up system.


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## txgal (Jul 16, 2003)

Tcowgirl









When we know better we do better, Now that you know the truth, spread the word.


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## 3lilpunkins (Oct 3, 2008)

this happened mildly to my 1st son.the ped. yanked it back, and told me to put vaseline on it....


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