# safety on airplane



## gretelmom (Jun 22, 2005)

Okay, so we're barely scraping together the funds for our yearly trip from CA to MI this Summer ... DS is going to be nineteen months. I also have a 4 year old DS...

I know infants on the lap isn't the safest option. But is it possible to get a seat belt attachment or something that would make it safer? I know baby doesn't go under the adult's belt, but what if it attached somewhere?

I know the safest thing is his carseat. I just hope I can pull together another three hundred bucks for this. I read a study one MDC member had... It said that if every infant were required to be in a safety restraint there could be .4 less deaths per year... less than one.

Any ideas?


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## missbuns (Oct 16, 2007)

they give you a seat belt extender and that's all you are allowed to use.

i wouldn't worry about it since it's not a very long flight.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *missbuns* 
they give you a seat belt extender and that's all you are allowed to use.

i wouldn't worry about it since it's not a very long flight.

Some airlines give you a seatbelt thing, others don't. i think the ones that offer them are in the minority. The last time i saw one was three years ago on British Airways.

Incidents often happen during take-off and landing, so the length of the flight doesn't matter so much. However, the odds of an incident are extremely low.

The airline will give a lap child a seat if one is available and if you have a carseat to use, but that doesn't happen as often anymore now that flights are so full. However, it wouldn't hurt to bring the carseat and try, especially if you're going to need it at your destination. You can gate check it if there isn't an empty seat in the cabin. Tuesdays and Wednesdays are generally the days of the week with the lowest rates of travel, and they're typically the cheapest days to fly as well.

Years ago when I was flying with NWA a lot they used to do kids fly free or half price as a summer promotion. I can't remember the details, I didn't have kids then, Alaska Airlines does kids fly free to Disney sometimes, which basically gives one free child ticket for every adult ticket purchased to an airport in Southern California. Maybe check and see if any of the airlines in your market run promotions like this.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Domestic flights don't allow any type of strap for a lap baby. You'd just have to hold him.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

... that said, I have gotten away with using a Baby B'Air harness on a few occasions. It all depends on how alert/sympathetic the flight attendant is. I just waited until she'd made her last pass through before takeoff/landing, and then strapped it on!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

There's a reason those aren't approved for takeoff and landing, but I suppose it's better than just holding the baby.


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## missbuns (Oct 16, 2007)

wow, sorry for my mis-information. we have always been given a belt for the lap baby but i have only flown internationally and within europe. i have always gotten a lap baby belt from all airines for flights like germany-france, switzerland-england, england-spain. i thought it was normal everywhere! good to know.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Yep, it's just the US that doesn't allow those baby belts. I'm not entirely sure why that is.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Really, the risk is so low. If you can't afford it don't sweat it.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

I thought only infants under 1 could be on laps.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

I was on a flight back in the late 80's and we hit sudden turbulence, we just dropped like 1000 feet in a split second, people became projectiles, there were trays of food all over the place and injured people, head, neck. I know deep down inside babies would have died had there been any.

This was long before I had kids, but I will never forget it, how suddenly it happened it was like 1 million times worse than a rollercoaster drop and terrifying. I buy the extra seat, I use the car seat for my kids.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
I thought only infants under 1 could be on laps.

Under 2.

And in the case of sudden turbulence, there are probably going to be people out of their seats. If I'm nursing my baby, the baby could be out of the seat in sudden turbulence. Which, btw, a 1000 foot drop is REALLY REALLY REALLY rare.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

The trip I didn't use a carseat, I did use my sling. I don't know that it would be enough for takeoff or landing problems, but it intuitively felt like that would keep him with me in case of turbulence. (But I don't have numbers to back that up...)


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

They make you take baby out of a sling for takeoffs/landings. Except when the jetBlue flight attendent sees you, sitting in your seat, with a sleeping baby in a sling, and asks if you're buckled, winks and keeps right on going.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

The FAA prohibits the use of any device for restraining people (including infants and toddlers) during take-off and landing aside from:

* The supplied seat belt (one person per belt),
* An FAA-approved Child Restraint System, secured with provided seat belt, or
* A CARES harness (which has a very narrow weight range).

The reason for this is that, in tests with crash test dummies secured with belly belts, baby b'air harnesses, or children inside of belts with adults, the child dummy has sustained greater "injuries" than if only in arms. I think these are tests done by the NTSB or the FAA. They're referred to in some document I saw linked on this forum a year or so ago.

It's not arbitrary or a money-grab or anything... based on the testing they have seen, they feel certain restraints put a child at greater risk than no restraint. They also have determined that going by car to save money puts children at greater risk, hence the ability to take under-2's as lap children. It's not "safe", it's just safer than driving. It's definitely not as safe as putting them in their own seat in a carseat.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Gate check your car seat if you are bringing one along, that way if there is an available seat you have a chance at bringing your car seat onboard. Be aware though that some airlines, even when there are open seats on the plane, will not allow you to use your car seat if you haven't actually paid for the seat (we had this happen on Southwest) so don't be surprised if that happens too!

Have a great trip!!


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## gretelmom (Jun 22, 2005)

Thanks for all the advice.

I think we'll gauge the finances as we get closer. DH is freelance and seems to be getting more work. It's just sooo expensive! But worth it if we can sport it.

When my kids were babies I put them in the Bjorn for take off and landing... We once had a really hard, fast landing and I was so glad they were strapped to me. I don't know if this was safe, but I liked it for teeny ones.

Maybe the Ergo?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

No, not safe. It would be ideal for a baby to be in a car seat for those bumpy landings.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

Besides the safety issue, which I think it is priority, I think it would be easier on you to have a seat to put your toddler in instead of trying to entertain him on your lap. From CA to MI is not a short flight, especially if you to have to connect. We flew CA to MN and took my 3 year old niece. Of course, she was over 2, so we had to buy a seat. We took her car seat, lots of new activities and snacks. She played and ate a bit and then slept like a baby both ways. I can't imagine trying to eat, go to the bathroom and just plain sit with a bigger baby on my lap the whole time.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

NEVER have a baby in any sort of device for take-off and landing. I'm a former Flight Attendant and while some of you have "gotten away" with doing this, you were putting your babies at risk. If an incident had happened, then you would have CRUSHED YOUR BABY on your lap on forward impact.

When I would do my cabin checks, if a parent were hesitant about removing their baby from the carrier, I would do a little demo. I would push their shoulder forward so that they could see what it would do to their baby. Needless to say, they removed the carriers FAST!

On U.S. and Canadian airlines, any sort of "belly belt" is banned. European safety standards are much lower than those in the U.S. but some countries, like Germany, are getting smart and removing them from flights. This issue has been debated in the European Parliament and so far, they haven't organized themselves to get rid of these contraptions.

Btw, you don't have to remove the sling entirely. If you have a sleeping baby, all you have to do is loosen the strap and flip it over your shoulder. Keep the carrier around the baby as a blanket. This way, you don't have to wake your baby while not putting them at extra risk.

The _only_ way to fly safely with a child is to have them in a car seat. Otherwise, you're counting on the fact that air travel itself is safe and so there is little chance of anything going wrong. You can't hold a baby in an emergency but some have survived being pulled away from their parents. In the Sioux City incident, one baby girl went in an overhead bin and survived, when she wouldn't have if she had been attached to an adult.

You would feel awful if you crushed your own child so please, please, please don't have your babies in _anything_ for take-off and landing! Loose in your lap is much safer!!


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## gretelmom (Jun 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl* 
NEVER have a baby in any sort of device for take-off and landing. I'm a former Flight Attendant and while some of you have "gotten away" with doing this, you were putting your babies at risk. If an incident had happened, then you would have CRUSHED YOUR BABY on your lap on forward impact.

When I would do my cabin checks, if a parent were hesitant about removing their baby from the carrier, I would do a little demo. I would push their shoulder forward so that they could see what it would do to their baby. Needless to say, they removed the carriers FAST!

On U.S. and Canadian airlines, any sort of "belly belt" is banned. European safety standards are much lower than those in the U.S. but some countries, like Germany, are getting smart and removing them from flights. This issue has been debated in the European Parliament and so far, they haven't organized themselves to get rid of these contraptions.

Btw, you don't have to remove the sling entirely. If you have a sleeping baby, all you have to do is loosen the strap and flip it over your shoulder. Keep the carrier around the baby as a blanket. This way, you don't have to wake your baby while not putting them at extra risk.

The _only_ way to fly safely with a child is to have them in a car seat. Otherwise, you're counting on the fact that air travel itself is safe and so there is little chance of anything going wrong. You can't hold a baby in an emergency but some have survived being pulled away from their parents. In the Sioux City incident, one baby girl went in an overhead bin and survived, when she wouldn't have if she had been attached to an adult.

You would feel awful if you crushed your own child so please, please, please don't have your babies in _anything_ for take-off and landing! Loose in your lap is much safer!!


This was SO informative! Thank you!! I'm sure you can imagine, as a flight attendant, why people think a carrier is a good idea... But it's good to know why it's not. The reality is that passengers aren't informed of much regarding the care of lap babies on a plane. I've never had a person tell me one single thing about where or how to keep the babies safe on a plane. Well, that is apart from the flight attendant who seemed very irritated by the fact that my baby wouldn't keep the blanket over his head while I was nursing him... Though obviously this wasn't about safety!! Most flight attendants have been great to us (we have flown six or eight times since DS2 was born). But it would be nice for someone to explain in a friendly way what is safest for baby.

We are going to try to buy him a seat. I think he'll be a lot mellower, too, because he's used to the car seat, he knows he has to stay in it once he's strapped in because it's obviously non-negotiable in the car.

It has to be in a middle seat, right? So maybe the 4 year old by the window, the baby in the middle and me on the aisle? DH can fend for himself!


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

the car seat goes in the window seat, so everyone else can get out. I am really glad you are trying to get your baby a seat of his own. It really and truly is the safest thing. I made a snarky comment earlier, that got deleted, rightly so, but my point was this- We don't ever think of NOT buckling ourselves in, and everyone else in during the flight (especially during take off and landing when emergencies are more likely to occur), so I never understood why we would do this for ourselves, but not for our most vulnerable passengers, our babies. The thing is your kid isn't really a baby, he is a full blown toddler, and as such he is going to be really busy in your lap, for a long flight. I cannot imagine that myself, my kid was always so much happier in his own seat, as he was used to that, and slept soundly even. I can't imagine my kid trying to sleep ON me, and then me being comfortable the entire time, especially if I have to pee! At home I can put him down on the bed for a bit, but where on a plane?

I am very pleased to see our board resident FA piping in once again, it's such a blessing to have her speak up on this issue. I keep trying myself, but it really helps to have someone who has been there done that talk about the realities of flight. Thank you Eclipsepearl!

While the chance of something happening is relatively small, EVERYONE
deserves to be properly restrained on an airplane. I mean imagine this, you get on a plane, the FA tells everyone how to put on their seat belt, etc, you go to buckle up and you find yours is missing completely. You complain to the FA, they shrug at you, and tell you that the chance of something happening during flight is SO small it's no big deal you have no seat belt. How would you feel?


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Actually, seats have to go by the windows IF the row is by a window. If it's a "wide-body" plane with two aisles, it can go in a center seat, in the center section.

Basically, all passengers have to have access to an aisle without a car seat in the way (if that makes it clearer), even if it's the child's parent, sibling, etc. There is also no distinction for the different sizes and styles, i.e. you can't argue "But people can still slide easily by the infant seat!" It's a "hard and fast" rule by the FAA, not something they can play with.

Also Gretelmom, thanks for the sweet comments. Well timed as I was recently flamed on another board simply for pointing out similar. I needed that!


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