# Do big families bother you?



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I was out with a cousin and our kids, and we saw in a parking lot a van with a little stick figure family on it, and according to the stick figures, the family had nine kids. My cousin said, "Nobody has any business having that many kids." Then I reminded her that our parents (siblings) were in a family with eight kids, which isn't that far off. But she said that it bothers her because she thinks it's bad for the environment, and because she thinks it's unfair to the kids, particularly the older ones, because the kids don't get enough individual attention and the older ones end up being forced to do a lot of work they didn't sign up for.

I feel like reproductive choices can only be made by those personally affected by those choices, so I don't really give big families any thought.

Any opinions?


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

Considering that I'm pregnant with #8, you can assume I don't have any problem with it.

I've had people try to tell me things like your cousin said. Frankly, if there's something no one has "any business" doing, it's telling other people how many kids they are allowed to have. I remember once when my kids were riding a carnival ride, and the operator tried to lecture me about how I was destroying my kids lives by giving them so many siblings, and how they would hate me for it. Not only is that incredibly rude, he's totally wrong. My kids LOVE having a big family, get excited when they find out we're having another, and have repeatedly told me that we should have more.

IMHO, the gall of people who don't even know my family assuming that they know how it works, or people who don't know my children telling me that I don't know how my children feel, is nothing short of astounding.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

It doesn't bother me as a general rule. I personally would have loved to have more than two kids. That said, I know someone who had six kids and she has no business having any. They live in utter poverty and none of the THREE, yes three!, fathers pay child support. Each conception was a conscious choice. That bothers me, but my opinion is that if you can afford it financially and emotionally, you should have as many kids as you wish.


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Nope, they don't. It isn't something I would choose for myself, but I definitely understand those that choose it for themselves. I come from a family of big families though, so I think that helps it seem more normal to me. My Mom is one of 6 children and her and 2 other siblings have 4 children each, 1 has 8, 1 has 7 and the "odd" one has 2







And yeah, it is definitely not my place to tell someone how many children they can and can't have, I certainly wouldn't want someone dictating that to me, no matter what the circumstances!


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## Christophersmother (Jul 11, 2003)

It doesn't bother me. I have 4, which is kind of considered big. The stick figure decals are annoying though. In my opinion.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

My family stickers on my minivan are zombies. Dh has a machine and program so he can make those stickers, so he made me a whole zombie family, including our dogs.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

And as for the cars with tons of kid stickers...there are many grandparents who have stickers for their grandchildren.

We have seen around town a car with the back window covered in cat stickers LOL


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

We have six and most of them are begging me to have or adopt more. My good friend who has eleven says the same thing.

As far as work, that is something that comes with the territory called life. It wouldn't matter if we had only one, that one child would still be working.

Environment - teach your children to be producers and not merely consumers. A small family or even a single person has as much ability to waste resources as a large family and most large families I know have limited means, which equates to being more careful and stretching out the resources they have.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> That bothers me, but my opinion is that *if you can afford it financially and emotionally*, you should have as many kids as you wish.


that's what matters to me, please don't ask me to pay for your choices

my grandmother came from a very large family (9), all the sibling went on to have only one, two and three choose none (and this was during the baby boom too) - none liked having a large family growing up and didn't want it either, their children's children also went on to have none and one had two children

growing up I only knew one family (with 4 and that was large) their children also didn't want a large family, only one has children, two

I know no one now IRL that has more than two now, my family-both sides of parents, I only have two first cousins (only one has a child) and two second cousins (only one has two children) so I am use to small, my DH also only has a sibling and didn't want our child to have siblings (I have one much older- not even close in age and on opposite sides of the county too, so they aren't growing up together)-both his sides of family are very small and are baby boomers too

financially is really the big thing in most I know, many didn't like (as in the case with my grandmother) the emotional reprocussions

we hate the window stickers too


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> My family stickers on my minivan are zombies. Dh has a machine and program so he can make those stickers, so he made me a whole zombie family, including our dogs.


Mine are robots. Build-your-own robots, in fact, so every one is different.







I love them, and I got them from ThinkGeek. They also have zombies, Star Wars, Marvel superheroes and Batman.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma*
> 
> We have six and most of them are begging me to have or adopt more. My good friend who has eleven says the same thing.


I used to read a blog of a lady with twelve and the youngest three were adopted. Apparently she was in her 50s when she got the call about adopting her youngest, and she was going to say no, that she was too old, and her kids said she couldn't turn away a little boy who needed a family. All three of her adopted kids, plus one of her biological kids, have Down's Syndrome.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma*
> 
> As far as work, that is something that comes with the territory called life. It wouldn't matter if we had only one, that one child would still be working.


Sometimes when my older kids are having to do a job that includes, say, cleaning up after the younger ones, I tell them, "Even if you were an only child you'd still have to help out. I'd just have to work harder to find things for you to do. Teaching you to work is part of my job." They don't actually complain about that; I just worry a little because everybody and their brother wants to tell me how it's not fair that my kids -- gasp! -- have to help around the house!

Near the beginning of my homeschooling career, I read a book that said a child's day should be divided thusly: 3/6 play, 2/6 work, 1/6 formal schooling. I agree with that philosophy. Play (real, unstructured play) and work are very important to a child's development, and far too overlooked in our society.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

It doesn't bother me at all.

The environmental argument is just silly. I know plenty of families with 1 or 2 kids who have a FAR bigger negative impact on the environment than some large families I know.

I hate bumper/window stickers of any sort.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

It doesn't bother me. It's no secret that children greatly increase your carbon footprint but really, why should anyone care? At the rate the population is growing in certain countries, the world as we know it will one day come to an end anyway, it isn't like me having 8 kids will make even the slightest difference (I only have 1 but 8 would be cool







).

As for them not getting the attention from their parents as less children would, my mom is from a family of 10 kids, 2 parents, grandmother and a nanny (14 in total), she said they all loved it. The kids would all form "groups" so it didn't even seem to them like their family was that big at all.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> It doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> The environmental argument is just silly. I know plenty of families with 1 or 2 kids who have a FAR bigger negative impact on the environment than some large families I know.


No it`s not. It is true that some one-child families have a bigger negative impact on the environment than, say, a 10-kid family. However, it`s simple math. Suppose the one kid decides to have one kid, and the 10 kids have each ten kids, the impact on the environment of 100+ people is a lot bigger than the one-kid family`s impact. The more we are, the bigger our impact is, no matter how environmentally friendly we strive to be.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

It's more about the carbon legacy than the actual emissions of the family. Someone who drives 3 SUVs to work each day but has no kids is undoubtedly going to have less of an impact on the future of the environment than someone with 10 kids, who cloth diapers and doesn't even drive.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Escaping*
> 
> It's more about the carbon legacy than the actual emissions of the family. Someone who drives 3 SUVs to work each day but has no kids is undoubtedly going to have less of an impact on the future of the environment than someone with 10 kids, who cloth diapers and doesn't even drive.


Only for that one generation. The people with no kids - their carbon legacy ends with them. The people with ten kids will end up with ten future families who also have carbon legacies, and generations after that.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwish*
> 
> No it`s not. It is true that some one-child families have a bigger negative impact on the environment than, say, a 10-kid family. However, it`s simple math. Suppose the one kid decides to have one kid, and the 10 kids have each ten kids, the impact on the environment of 100+ people is a lot bigger than the one-kid family`s impact. The more we are, the bigger our impact is, no matter how environmentally friendly we strive to be.


Doh! Big families still don't bother me, but you're right, I was thinking shortsightedly.

Escaping and mamazee, aren't you saying the same thing in your most recent posts?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> Doh! Big families still don't bother me, but you're right, I was thinking shortsightedly.
> 
> Escaping and mamazee, aren't you saying the same thing in your most recent posts?


Oh yeah. I have a headache today and misread it. Sorry, Escaping!


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Oh yeah. I have a headache today and misread it. Sorry, Escaping!


No problem... feel better!


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

I can (kind of) understand being concerned about the environment, even though larger families often make wiser and more conscious choices that make their carbon foot print smaller. I can't understand being judgmental about how much time parents have for individual kids. How does she know what goes on in X family? No inside insight = no right to judge, I think.


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Yup.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Sometimes it bugs me. But, sometimes, people in general bug me.

I remember when my daughter was six, I was taking her to dance class...she had two classes in a row, so *I* had two hours off. I parked next to an SUV with a couple of kids in it.

The lady got out, then a preteen daughter got out, and they both unloaded about six more kids... mom got the giant double stroller contraption, put two little ones in it, held the hand of another one, the older siblings held hands with another younger one, and they all walked in to drop off ONE little ballet outfit clad little girl. Then, they all walked around the plaza a little bit while the preschool-sh age boys ran around and roughhoused.

I dropped my ONE kid off, went to the .99 store, and then hopped in my little car and drove home for a while. I was thinking "Man, i'm glad I only have one kid, that looked exhausting".

But, then other days, I thought it looked fun. She had a lovely little family. They homeschooled. The kids truly LIKED each other...they treated each other with respect and genuine enjoyment. It was refreshing to see.

Their clothes weren't nice. They didn't go buy ice creams after class, they didn't seem to spend a lot of money on non necessities, yet, they seemed like one of the happier families I've seen.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Not at all. I have four kids, which seems to be the cusp of "big family" these days. (Maybe I just think this, because I homeschool, and in homeschooling circles, four is nothing terribly remarkable...but outside of those circles, I get a lot of "you have four kids???" type reactions.)

Older kids having to do work they didn't sign on for is a parenting style thing, not a "number of kids" thing. My oldest is 10 years older than his next youngest sibling. The other two living kids are 12 and 16 years younger than him. He's been mistaken for his youngest sister's dad on more than one occasion.

Yes - he's had to change an occasional diaper, or watch his siblings while I run an errand. He's also had to clean bathrooms, do his own laundry, take out the garbage, set the table, do the dishes, etc., at various times. In his case, I think he's actually had to do less around the house, because of his siblings. I cut him some slack on chores, because he was watching his siblings while I ran to the store, yk? There's always work to be done, and different parents have different comfort zones about where to draw their lines. One of my factors in drawing those lines was that I didn't want to sabotage my son's relationship with his siblings (esp. after he waited soooo long for them) by introducing a bunch of resentment. He's been expected to do short-term babysitting, since he was about...12, I guess?...but he only has to do it for free if it's for the household (eg. if I need to run to the store for something for dinner, he doesn't get paid - if dh and I want a romantic dinner, he does). When possible, I also give him the option - do the errand, or watch his siblings.

The environmental side of it doesn't really bother me that much. We need to make across the board cultural changes to really make an environmental impact. The fact that a dozen or more of my friends have no children, and I have four, isn't really the issue. If everyone in North America just stopped having babies, we'd have to increase immigration to keep our economy functioning (including growing food, medical/health care, etc. - not just consumer frenzy stuff). Most of those immigrants would then develop a North American lifestyle and become environmental menaces themselves. The lifestyle is the problem, not the birthrate. (In any case, the last time I looked, the overall birth rate was down - the large families aren't the norm.)

Another point...I don't do the family sticker thing. If I did, I'd have four. But, my sister has a serious heart condition, and we don't know if she'll survive to raise her kids to adulthood (I don't say that out loud very much). If she doesn't, I'll be their guardian...and will then have a household with eight "kids" - two are adults, or very nearly, already. I'd certainly include her kids if I were to do a sticker family. And, my mom has 12 grandchildren, so she'd have a big sticker family, too!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

its just dd and me but we always wanted a big family. going by my dd who is a total introvert - she needs people around her. and so do i. it would have been delightful to have more children around.

my parents grew up in large families. my father's was not a very happy one, but my mom she loved it.

i have friends who refuse to have children on the environmental grounds. to me it seems like there are two kinds of people. people who want to have kids and people who dont. people who want to have kids raise a family well - taking care of all needs - social, intellectual, emotional. the trouble starts when parents who dont really want to have kids do.

what i do have a problem is with economics. the idea that because you are poor and/or on welfare you must limit the number of children you have. irresponsible parents are irresponsible parents whether they are rich or poor, i kid or many kids, on govt. assistance or not. its like saying the poorer areas like the south should not have any kids (not saying this to anyone here - its an attitude i get IRL all the time). this really REALLY bothers me. the attitude to the poor, to the illeterate, to the homeless - adult or children - really REALLY bothers me. and yet (pot calling the kettle black) i remember once saying one should not be allowed to vote unless they took an exam of the info they know. in my defence i will say i am from california and we have a lot of propositions. but omg essentially i was saying some people should not have the right to vote. yikes!!!!

it taught me never to judge people. well at least try not to.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

There hasn't been anything about a big family that has irritated me that couldn't also have been done by a smaller family.


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## sunshinelove (Jan 19, 2013)

I find questions like these to be more bothersome than what they are pointing to! I know the topic came up because of what your cousin said, OP, but it bothers me that there's so much judgement surrounding this topic. Its not anyone else's business how many kids a couple chooses to have, and i find it to be bad taste that its socially acceptable to air our judgments on the matter. Families come in all shapes and sizes, some of us have a lot of kids, some of us just a few, and we all have our own personal reasons. In my experience, a lot of families with several kids are very loving and attentive-the parents lives are kid-centered. Theres also plenty of families with one or two kids that are not very loving or attentive. Thus, it depends on the parents, not the size of the family. Also, when people start listing environmental concerns, i find that to be an easy scapegoat since pretty much everything we do or dont do can be attributed to caring or not caring for the environment. It just seems like an easy answer, not terribly thought through. Its also easy to list as a reason because its difficult for anyone to refute--we dont know exactly what will happen to our planet so limiting this, this and that in the hopes that it will help our planet is reasonable and irrefutable. To say that having a lot of kids will increase the carbon footprint is irrefutable as well, but does that mean its completely irresponsible to have several kids? Not necessarily. If the parents teach their kids how to tread lightly on the earth then they will pass this on to their kids and so on and so forth, which is far better than having a few kids and teaching them a lack of care for the planet. Everything we do has a ripple effect and by teaching our kids how to be mindful of the environment, we are aiding the planet no matter how many kids we have. A lot of kids aiding the environment=a lot of adults aiding the environment=more and more communities forming over time with this central theme.


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

Like everyone said...you don't know the situation. It could be a blended family or there could be some adoptions. The family could live a lot more simply and not have as much of an impact on the environment as a family of four. Unfortunately, those are not always the types of families having lots of kids. I live in an area with a lot of poverty. There are so many children in foster care, and so many sad stories of abuse in the paper every day. There is an entire high school for teen parents in my community. In some areas of the country, there are large numbers of irresponsible people who have a lot of children. For whatever reason, they are too poor, sick, desperate to care. It is sad, but I can see why this upsets people.

People have their reasons for having large families, but I think "because that's how our ancestors did it" isn't the best argument any longer. Yes, our grandparents all came from large families (on my Irish side, I think 10 siblings was pretty typical). That was a different time. We didn't buy things that were advertised on TV because we didn't have TV. We ate what we grew on the farm. We made things from scratch instead of buying things made in mass quantities in a factory overseas. Children often didn't survive illness or epidemics, and boys were expected to go to war where they would often die. People didn't live as long. We weren't going to war over oil and natural resources. Although they had lots of kids, women weren't having 10 kids with 5 dads, while the dads were off having more kids with other women. In other words, they took care of all their children. They had more kids because they were worried about the future of the family farm, etc. We don't have the same issues today.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

Only because I sometimes wish we'd started sooner and had more children.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

O.K...Today they bothered me.

Seriously...if you have a huge family, you do not ALL need to shop at Walmart in one huge mass. Honestly...give the kids some coupons and send them searching, you don't need to cling to each other like a small island lumbering through the store together. Spread out.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

Nextcommercial- I could as easily say, you small family with the humongous car shaped grocery cart, get out of my way!! People are going to be idiots either way! I would never have thought anything about a bunch of kids staying with their mom? Maybe that was the first time they've all been together in awhile, considering school, sports, whatever else they have going on. I used to go shopping with my three plus a large group of their friends when we'd end up with a bunch of them for the night. It was fun being with them altogether.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> Nextcommercial- I could as easily say, you small family with the humongous car shaped grocery cart, get out of my way!! People are going to be idiots either way! I would never have thought anything about a bunch of kids staying with their mom? Maybe that was the first time they've all been together in awhile, considering school, sports, whatever else they have going on. I used to go shopping with my three plus a large group of their friends when we'd end up with a bunch of them for the night. It was fun being with them altogether.


Actually, sometimes husbands bother me. Especially when they stand in the way at Victoria's secret. Occasionally Old people bother me. (admittedly it's usually my own Mother or Mother in law) People who smoke in the drive through at the bank bother me too.

I'm an equal opportunity crab.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Actually, sometimes husbands bother me. Especially when they stand in the way at Victoria's secret.


OT, but you know which husbands bothered me? The ones who sat their lazy asses in the waiting room chairs in the OB office while very pregnant women (myself included) had to STAND ALONG THE WALL. Unbelievable. And there were TWO of them doing that one day!!!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> OT, but you know which husbands bothered me? The ones who sat their lazy asses in the waiting room chairs in the OB office while very pregnant women (myself included) had to STAND ALONG THE WALL. Unbelievable. And there were TWO of them doing that one day!!!


Once, I saw a very elderly man get up from his seat to give it to a pregnant woman. I wanted to kiss him on his little head.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Once, I saw a very elderly man get up from his seat to give it to a pregnant woman. I wanted to kiss him on his little head.


Aw, that is sweet. And out in public that issue never bugged me, but in the OB waiting room I had a big problem with it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> OT, but you know which husbands bothered me? The ones who sat their lazy asses in the waiting room chairs in the OB office while very pregnant women (myself included) had to STAND ALONG THE WALL. Unbelievable. And there were TWO of them doing that one day!!!


I saw that at a doctor's office once, and an eldery woman - the type described as "feisty" - walked up to the man, and said "I'm so sorry that you're injured - what's wrong?". The man said "nothing - I'm not injured", and she said, "oh...then the fact that you're letting this pregnant woman stand while you sit is just laziness and rudeness. I'd hoped for better". It doesn't seem like much when I write it down, but you'd have to have seen her face and heard her tone of voice. He almost sprang out of his seat like a Jack-in-the-Box.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 



> you don't need to cling to each other *like a small island lumbering through the store together*.


i love language. i love great written pieces. i love the humor of bill bryson.

this image and the language chosen is just brilliant. i think the word 'lumbering' did it for me.

i almost cried at the beauty of this image. THANKS.

ok back to ur original discussion.

however i will add one thing. i live in my head a lot. the thing i hate about it is that sometimes the VERY in your face obvious thing - i dont see it at all. i could be a man and sitting on a seat in an OB office and not even see that pregnant lady standing and waiting for her appt.

i have done so many daft things like that - its unbelievable. you know that person who is blocking the narrow aisle just standing there staring into space thinking - yup. that's been me. its the gentle "excuse me please" that brought me out of my reverie.


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## Tahpenes (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> The environmental side of it doesn't really bother me that much. We need to make across the board cultural changes to really make an environmental impact. The fact that a dozen or more of my friends have no children, and I have four, isn't really the issue. If everyone in North America just stopped having babies, we'd have to increase immigration to keep our economy functioning (including growing food, medical/health care, etc. - not just consumer frenzy stuff). Most of those immigrants would then develop a North American lifestyle and become environmental menaces themselves. The lifestyle is the problem, not the birthrate. (In any case, the last time I looked, the overall birth rate was down - the large families aren't the norm.)


This. With the exception of China and India, there isn't a single developed/developing country which has a problem with too many children. The only reason the United States' population isn't falling is because of immigration (inclusive of both legal and illegal methods). The US actually has a pretty sparse population given the amount of land area we have, and if you're going to wag fingers at people for making environmentally poor choices you'd do better to point to things like our meat-heavy diet, our conspicuous consumption, our dependency on coal, and our fuel-guzzling travel, than to people who have "extra" children.

I have no problem with large families. I do have a problem with bad parents in general, but I've met individuals who were, for reasons of personality or lifestyle, less capable of appropriately caring for their ONE child than other parents I know did for their 5 or 6. Two kids is my limit for now, but I admire parents who can do well with more.

For what it's worth, I also don't mind paying for them through social services if the family needs the assistance. I don't think that raising children is something that only rich people are capable of doing well; frankly, I think a lot of the lifestyle choices needed to maintain an upper or upper-middle class lifestyle often make it difficult to parent a large number of children well. Nobody is served by cutting off children from resources for food, clothing, shelter, or a good quality education. Nor do I blame parents for having children that I think they "can't afford."

I get very uncomfortable with this "people shouldn't have so many children" line of argument some people have, because to be quite blunt a lot of the time there's serious (often unexamined) racism in play. Some people may point to the Duggars, but spin the vitriol just a little bit and all of a sudden it's Reagan's "welfare queens" and Limbaugh's "anchor babies."


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Even if a large family is environmentally conscious, their carbon footprint cannot be as small as a small family that is environmentally conscious. Moreover, if everyone has an average of 2 kids each, in a couple of generation the family that had 10 kids is going to have a huge family tree - and all of them may not be as environmentally conscious as you.

Despite this, the environmental aspect to large families does not bother me. The average birth rate in Canada is something like 2; what do I care if someone has 10 kids? There are so few people having 10 kids that statistically it is not going to matter.

I do have some worries about kids getting enough attention in large families. I worry about this because I don't think I would be able to give each child the attention I would want to give them if I was spread so thin. Maybe some people can, however.

I very much believe that another persons family size is none of my business.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tahpenes*
> 
> I get very uncomfortable with this "people shouldn't have so many children" line of argument some people have, because to be quite blunt a lot of the time there's serious (often unexamined) racism in play. Some people may point to the Duggars, but spin the vitriol just a little bit and all of a sudden it's Reagan's "welfare queens" and Limbaugh's "anchor babies."


I agree with this!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Even if a large family is environmentally conscious, their carbon footprint cannot be as small as a small family that is environmentally conscious. Moreover, if everyone has an average of 2 kids each, in a couple of generation the family that had 10 kids is going to have a huge family tree - and all of them may not be as environmentally conscious as you.
> 
> ...


This is really my take. My siblings and I each had four children, giving my mom a total of 12 grandchildren from 3 children. (I'll also add that none of us were okay with having an abortion, and there were two unplanned pregnancies and two sets of fraternal twins involved in all this - having a big/biggish family isn't always about planning to have a big family.)

My aunt on my dad's side also had three children. She has two grandchildren. My bff always wanted kids. She has none. My sister's oldest friend is child free. I live in a family friendly townhouse complex (in this case, it means the management will only rent to people with kids), and we have one family with six kids (and the last was also an accident), one with four kids (us), three with three kids...and the others are all either one or two child families. This is out of about 40 units.

When my son was in Scouts, almost every boy there was either an only child or one of two kids. In his 13 years of public school (including kindergarten, of course), he only had about four classmates with more than one sibling. I think the onlies outnumbered those with any sibling at all. When ds2 was in preschool, he had one classmate with two siblings, and the others were all either onlies or one of two.

My own graduating class was about 180 people. I know of one other guy who had four kids (including twins again). There are a handful with three. There are a lot with one (and many only had that one in the last few years - we're the class of '86, and it's very unlikely they're having anymore). There are a few dozen with no kids at all. The fact that Mark and I have four each (he may more now - haven't seen him since the 10 year reunion) doesn't really have much impact. I don't have exact numbers, but I don't think my grad class, averaged out, is even at replacement birth rate. (Most of my old friends - many of whom weren't in my grad class - have no kids at all.)

My city is becoming incredibly crowded, but the population isn't coming from big families. It's coming from immigration. If everybody who was born here stopped having children today, Vancouver would still be growing by leaps and bounds. The city is actively courting the population increase, and if I didn't have four kids, the 'hole" would be filled by someone else.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I think they are great. Im always interested in the logistics of how they manage. I always identified with the the little old woman who lived in the shoe, but chose to do other things with my life than to have many children. I have 3. People seem to think that is alot, so i guess it all relative.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I saw that at a doctor's office once, and an eldery woman - the type described as "feisty" - walked up to the man, and said "I'm so sorry that you're injured - what's wrong?". The man said "nothing - I'm not injured", and she said, "oh...then the fact that you're letting this pregnant woman stand while you sit is just laziness and rudeness. I'd hoped for better". It doesn't seem like much when I write it down, but you'd have to have seen her face and heard her tone of voice. He almost sprang out of his seat like a Jack-in-the-Box.


That's awesome; I hope to be that old lady one day!


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

They only bother me when their kids are unruly in public places in ways that invade my space or my dad's or in noisy ways. I do sometimes wonder why anyone would feel they need more than one child because I have always felt like I would never want another child taking my time or resources from my DD. I am also happy that my outings are nothing like the outings I see moms with more than one child having and my home life isn't filled with the bickering my brother and I filled my childhood home with. Other than that I truly don't care. I am happy and other families must be also or they would have made a change, kids grow up happy under most conditions, and it is not an issue that causes me concern.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

They really do not bother me as long as the children are taken care of. I think for the most part the amount of people mostly evens out in the end.

I also think it is a lot better to see one large happy family then to have a guy or lady who have lots of kids scattered all around with lots of people. I have an uncle that has 5 kids with his first wife, while married to her had another kid with a one night stand type situation. He has another daughter with a different wife and admits that he may have up to 4 or 5 kids with varies other woman, but they have not caught up to him yet. His situation is the type that bothers me.


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## inconditus (Oct 1, 2012)

It's not my place to judge anyone but from my own perspective I think financial strain of having a big family has a lot to do with the location.

I grew up in a medium sized family, 5 kids, which I absolutely loved. I'm the opposite to where I think it's mean to the kids to not have any siblings. Then again, I lived in the country with not that many kids on my street. My siblings were my friends growing up and we are still really close today.

With that being said I probably wouldn't have 6 kids (what husband and I want eventually) if we lived in a city and didn't have a lot of space. I feel like I wouldn't be as good of a mother to them unless we lived in the country where they have room to run around, where we could be pretty self sustainable, and, honestly, where I feel the culture isn't as materialistic.

Where I grew up it also wasn't that weird to "put kids to work" by having them help out with small businesses or on the farm. Obviously not long hours but I think kids spend too much time watching tv or playing video games and not enough learning life skills. My husband is 26 years old and never packed himself a lunch or done his own laundry. He went from living with his parents to college where there was a cafeteria and mom doing laundry on the weekends, to living with me. I think that's crazy. I was doing my own laundry and making my own lunch for school by at least 5th grade.

My sister and her kids live in a rich neighborhood where it is normal for kids to have $400 birthday parties, designer clothes, and smartphones <---- even at a young age. Unless we were to make some serious career changes that couldn't happen with 3 kids let alone 6. Instead of doing any chores around the house they get carted around to ballet, theater, sports, horseback riding. etc. then go to bed. Though I feel all that is completely unnecesary kids see what's around them and think that's normal and if they don't have that there is something wrong with them.

Edit: I don't mean to say that extra curricular activities are bad and that all kids should do is work. The point I'm trying to say is that my sister is exhausted trying to "keep up with the Jones" and the culture of her area.


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## Cherry_Blossom (Nov 7, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmarroq*
> 
> Like everyone said...you don't know the situation. It could be a blended family or there could be some adoptions. The family could live a lot more simply and not have as much of an impact on the environment as a family of four. Unfortunately, those are not always the types of families having lots of kids. I live in an area with a lot of poverty. There are so many children in foster care, and so many sad stories of abuse in the paper every day. There is an entire high school for teen parents in my community. In some areas of the country, there are large numbers of irresponsible people who have a lot of children. For whatever reason, they are too poor, sick, desperate to care. It is sad, but I can see why this upsets people.
> 
> People have their reasons for having large families, but I think "because that's how our ancestors did it" isn't the best argument any longer. Yes, our grandparents all came from large families (on my Irish side, I think 10 siblings was pretty typical). That was a different time. We didn't buy things that were advertised on TV because we didn't have TV. We ate what we grew on the farm. We made things from scratch instead of buying things made in mass quantities in a factory overseas. Children often didn't survive illness or epidemics, and boys were expected to go to war where they would often die. People didn't live as long. We weren't going to war over oil and natural resources. Although they had lots of kids, women weren't having 10 kids with 5 dads, while the dads were off having more kids with other women. In other words, they took care of all their children. They had more kids because they were worried about the future of the family farm, etc. We don't have the same issues today.


I love the historical stories, I've gotten into genealogy and have looked at how huge most families were in the past. My mom's side was Appalachian. My grandparents had eight kids, my great-grandparents had eleven. Before them, going back four hundred years, every family had eight to fourteen kids. Some of them died in infancy. They lived off the land mostly and lived in tiny cabins. I have some beautiful photographs of their homes, just made of boards and studs, no interior walls, a woodburning stove, a small table with mismatched chairs. That's it. But none of my relatives of my own generation have more than two or three kids. It's just too hard to do that and have a decent quality of life for most people. My own choice is that I can care for my own two children the best I can without having to spread thin our resources to another child.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inconditus*
> 
> Where I grew up it also wasn't that weird to "put kids to work" by having them help out with small businesses or on the farm. Obviously not long hours but I think kids spend too much time watching tv or playing video games and not enough learning life skills. My husband is 26 years old and never packed himself a lunch or done his own laundry. He went from living with his parents to college where there was a cafeteria and mom doing laundry on the weekends, to living with me. I think that's crazy. I was doing my own laundry and making my own lunch for school by at least 5th grade.
> 
> ...


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

No problems, more to love.


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## philothea (Jun 14, 2012)

I'm the third oldest in a family of 10 kids and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! I always said and continue to say that the greatest gift my parents ever gave me was/is all my siblings!!







I never even heard that remark about how it's unfair on older children until recently and I had to laugh. My older siblings and I would 'fight' over taking care of our little siblings: "no I want to change his diaper! No let me bathe her, you got to last night:" ect. Im serious we loved taking care of each other and were so proud when we were the ones to first do something with them. We always had someone to play with, holidays and birthdays and game nights were loaded with fun, and I truly believe I became the person I am by being immersed and surrounded in such a care-taking, social environment. Do you know what is was like to have my baby brother fall asleep to my voice as I rocked him when I was just 9 years old? I tossed my baby dolls and all my friends were jealous I had a real one to take care of!







now of course I'm not saying our family didn't have our share of problems but I can genuinely say that not a single issue was because of our family size; that has only been goodness and blessings. And the great thing is that we are all still super close today and we all want to have big families as a result of how positive it was for us. And in regards to another common objection to big families... Not enough time with my parents... Well I never felt like that and I think there are two main reasons: 1. We had each other to do things with. I could list a million examples but honestly why would someone expect that the parents have to to be the ones to do everything? A lot f time we preferred each other! My brother taught me how to surf when I was 11. I taught my little sister mostly how to cook and read. I mean the dynamics are just so different that responsibilities and pleasures are multiplied but I don't think that's a bad thing. Of course not everyone is meant to have a big family but to act like it is inherently evil or something I just find ridiculous. My whole life we received more negative comments or rude remarks than positive ones from strangers at the grocery store and such.
Oh and the 2nd main reason we didn't ever feel deprived of our parents attention is...we were homeschooled. We were in conventional schools and then my older brother in 8th grade asked to be homeschooled because he was bored out of his mind. My mom gave it a try for a year with him, while the rest of us begged to come home too, so the following year she brought us home. We definitely spent more time with our mom than our school-attending friends. Ok wow I didn't expect to write this novel. My baby is sleeping in my arms and I typed this on my iPhone so please forgive me for any spelling/grammar typos. Just giving my two cents on the subject.


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

There's no reason for big families to bother me. If a large family showed up on my doorstep and let 20 kids loose to wreck my garden, I might be bothered, but otherwise, it isn't my concern. I feel people should be able to do as they desire as long as they aren't infringing on anyone else's rights and freedom. If having a large number of children works for a certain family, kudos to them. Honestly, I really envy them. I'd secretely love a gigantic family, but it just isn't doable for us.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

They do not bother me unless the kids are completely wild and off the wall and the parents stand around and do nothing... but then again, it bothers me to see ONE child completely wild and off the wall and his/her parents just standing around doing nothing... or worse, smiling like their little princess throwing a shoe across the room is just so precious!









I have two children and my fiance has three. We plan on having more children someday, but it's getting ridiculous the amount of people who look at us and all our kids and ask if we plan on having more (complete strangers) or express their concern because we already have enough (my Mom).


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## mumm (May 23, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> O.K...Today they bothered me.
> 
> Seriously...if you have a huge family, you do not ALL need to shop at Walmart in one huge mass. Honestly...give the kids some coupons and send them searching, you don't need to cling to each other like a small island lumbering through the store together. Spread out.


OMG! This is me. And I hate it. I only have 4 kids but sometimes when we are in a store I feel like "Who are all these kids and why do they keep callimg me mom?" My children have been told "Walk in front of the grocery cart or behind the grocery cart but not next to it" a bazillion times but we still end up like this huge mass walking down the aisle.

But I'm not willing to send my 5 year old out wandering the store for beans (or socks, or whatever) alone for your comfort, sorry.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mumm*
> 
> OMG! This is me. And I hate it. I only have 4 kids but sometimes when we are in a store I feel like "Who are all these kids and why do they keep callimg me mom?" My children have been told "Walk in front of the grocery cart or behind the grocery cart but not next to it" a bazillion times but we still end up like this huge mass walking down the aisle.
> 
> But I'm not willing to send my 5 year old out wandering the store for beans (or socks, or whatever) alone for your comfort, sorry.


HAHAHAHA! You tell 'em.


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## mamabear0314 (May 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mumm*
> 
> OMG! This is me. And I hate it. I only have 4 kids but sometimes when we are in a store I feel like "Who are all these kids and why do they keep callimg me mom?" My children have been told "Walk in front of the grocery cart or behind the grocery cart but not next to it" a bazillion times but we still end up like this huge mass walking down the aisle.
> 
> But I'm not willing to send my 5 year old out wandering the store for beans (or socks, or whatever) alone for your comfort, sorry.


Right?


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mumm*
> 
> OMG! This is me. And I hate it. I only have 4 kids but sometimes when we are in a store I feel like "Who are all these kids and why do they keep callimg me mom?" My children have been told "Walk in front of the grocery cart or behind the grocery cart but not next to it" a bazillion times but we still end up like this huge mass walking down the aisle.
> 
> But I'm not willing to send my 5 year old out wandering the store for beans (or socks, or whatever) alone for your comfort, sorry.


LOL I saw one guy solve this problem by using one cart for his kids and the other for their stuff! The kids cart has 2 littles in the seats and 2 bigs in the basket... He was pulling the cart full of kids behind him by the handles and the big kids were pulling the next cart behind them. When He picked something up, he handed it to the first kid who handed off to the next kid and the last one would drop it in the trailer cart









The kids seemed to have a blast with their arrangement and it probably made everyone else's day to see it. I don't know if that's just something they were just doing for fun that day or that's how they normally shopped but it was cute either way.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Just popping in to make sure you all saw our Mothers Day Contest. In addition to three Boba baby carriers we're giving a $300 dinner/spa package for one lucky mom. Contest ends in three days! Get the entry info here: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1382508/let-mothering-and-boba-pamper-you-this-mothers-day/0_100


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Thanks for bumping this thread, Cynthia!

Do big families bother me? Yes, that's my sincere reaction. Understand that this isn't something that disgusts me and makes me furious. I don't dwell on it. But that's my honest answer to the original question. I just don't think people should have lots of kids. I think it's well-intentioned selfishness. It's a drain on the whole world's resources. You might think Family X with 6 kids minding their own business and living responsibly doesn't really make any difference. Don't kid yourself. Every last human being uses the world's finite resources, and it's all relevant. Even if it's small, there's still that 'butterfly effect'.

But what about large families of adopted and foster kids? Well, that's not what I'm referring to, obviously. I praise those parents for the love, care and resources they're sharing.

That said, I love getting together with my 3 siblings and their kids. My dad is one of 6, my mom is one of 9, born decades before the Pill was invented, and I LOVED getting together with the wild horde that was my cousins. Holidays and summer camping trips were so much fun.

When my mom was sick and dying I really appreciated that there were 4 of us to lean on. Honestly, I feel a little sad that my 2 kids will have 'only' each other for support when dh and I get old and feeble.

IMO I'm not being hypocritical. I can be a little sad that my kids don't have scads of cousins to make memories with. Or I can be worried, angry and frustrated that humans are sucking up resources faster than they can be replaced and that millions of humans suffer terribly because they don't have access to the same resources a minority of us do.

Edited to add, about any particular economy suffering because of a shrinking population, that's simply something we need to address some other way, other than having more babies. We're smart, we can figure it out.

My concern is more for resources than the environment, but they're intertwined together, no doubt.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Specific to this:

Quote:


> I feel like reproductive choices can only be made by those personally affected by those choices, so I don't really give big families any thought.


I believe that, too. It's a personal decision. But I do give big families with a crowd of stick figures on the minivan some thought. It comes down to, I wish people would choose not to have lots of kids. That's all. Similar to, I wish people would choose not to buy SUVs.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> Specific to this:
> 
> I believe that, too. It's a personal decision. But I do give big families with a crowd of stick figures on the minivan some thought. It comes down to, I wish people would choose not to have lots of kids. That's all. *Similar to, I wish people would choose not to buy SUVs. *


I just wish people were smarter with the vehicles they chose... some people need SUVs... I'm one of them... and I have a gas-guzzling one at that. However, I only purchase at most about 500l (132gal) of fuel a year. I'm constantly getting attacked at the gas station by people who drive "Smart" cars but commute 100kms a day to work... that's about 10l of fuel a day, 50l a week and 500l in 10 weeks... I could also argue that I wish people wouldn't work so far away from their home, as they consume 5 times more fuel as I do with my SUV. I always plan my route and my days as efficiently as I can, live close to work and work from home as much as possible. I find that people with super efficient compact cars tend to drive way more because it costs them way less. If they need something from a store they just hop in the car and get it. If I need something, I put it on a list and wait to go out until I need a huge load of things. I only drive to stores when I know I need several things from them, and I have enough cargo space to carry everything home in one trip.... that's not WHY I need an SUV, but just an example of how it can be used more efficiently than a smaller vehicle.


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## KaliShanti (Mar 23, 2008)

I don't think the size of the family matters one iota; it's the character of the family that counts. In fact, it seems to me, many of the bigger families I know have better relationships and harder work ethic.


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## tracyamber (May 26, 2011)

Love big families!


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## dauphinette (Nov 13, 2007)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I can really see both sides, but that being said...

I envy mom's of big families. I wish I had the strength and faith to get pregnant that many times and roll the dice on personalities, health, my own mental health! I would love 6 kids but at this point I am way to scared to have more than maybe two more, I have one daughter now who is already 5 (!).

My 2 cents!


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dauphinette*
> I wish I had the strength and faith to get pregnant that many times and roll the dice on personalities, health, my own mental health!


Yup.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I wish i had two lives-one where i had a big family, and one where i led a more independent life. For me now, 3 kids is perfect.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dauphinette*
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I can really see both sides, but that being said...
> 
> ...


It's funny - I always wanted four, and I have them. My reproductive journey ended up being a nightmare of a roller coaster, and I'm not sure I would have had the guts to ever have kids at all if I'd known what was coming. But...if I hadn't already had five c-sections, and if I didn't have long-term damage from one of them, and if I weren't already in my 40s when I had my last one, and if I my dh were onboard (and that's a LOT of "ifs")...I think I'd have gone for one or two more. I love having a house full of kids.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure dd1 has ADHD, and ds2 has some kind of special needs, so it's also been a lot more crazy and challenging than I expected, on some levels. (The fact that ds2 has been, since birth, the "best" sleeper I've ever seen, has been a major sanity saver, though.)


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## macrandall (Feb 1, 2013)

I am the oldest of 10 children. I was miserable for most of my childhood. I did raise my siblings and felt trapped by my family. We were never, ever financially secure and it was very traumatic. I'm still not fond of our large family today, which is hard to admit, because of course I love all of my siblings and wouldn't wish them away. We can't all get together comfortably, and only half of us have children of our own. In a few years I think we'll be very disconnected and unable to get together for holiday meals or anything. People picture large families as being closer, but I think it's much, much easier to have a close family if you only have a few children.

All of this said, of course every family is different. Not everyone goes into it so irresponsibly, without having enough money to support their children. I can't say for certain that my father wouldn't have been abusive if there would have only been a few of us. Many large families are very environmentally responsible. I'm sure a lot of people feel very positively about their experience growing up in a large family.

Still, I never, ever wanted a large family. I feel very strongly that if I were to have any more children that I wouldn't be capable of giving my twins the attention I really want to give them.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macrandall*
> 
> We can't all get together comfortably, and only half of us have children of our own. In a few years I think we'll be very disconnected and unable to get together for holiday meals or anything.


I hadn't thought about this aspect. My mom was one of 5, and 4 of the siblings had children, and we can all get together fairly comfortably, but yeah, doubling that number would be tough. There's one branch of the family (a great-aunt) who had lots of kids, and they all had lots of kids, and they sort of do their own thing on holidays, because it just wouldn't work at anyone's house to have all of them and all of us at the same time.


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## macrandall (Feb 1, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmarroq*
> 
> Although they had lots of kids, women weren't having 10 kids with 5 dads, while the dads were off having more kids with other women. In other words, they took care of all their children. They had more kids because they were worried about the future of the family farm, etc. We don't have the same issues today.


That is a pretty ridiculous claim. There is no evidence that women having children with several different fathers is a new phenomenon. I would be willing to bet that there are no more families of this nature today than there were 100 years ago.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> I hadn't thought about this aspect. My mom was one of 5, and 4 of the siblings had children, and we can all get together fairly comfortably, but yeah, doubling that number would be tough. There's one branch of the family (a great-aunt) who had lots of kids, and they all had lots of kids, and they sort of do their own thing on holidays, because it just wouldn't work at anyone's house to have all of them and all of us at the same time.


You never know what the future holds. I have seven siblings, our ages have about a 23 yr span so not all close in age...but a few of my sibs live in other (far) states and do not come on holidays. Usually at any given time say at Christmas it would be my mom (dad is dead) two or three of my five brothers, my two sisters and me, my kids and my sister's two kids. Its not a huge house (my moms house is 1000 sf) and everyone fits fine though it would be nice if we had a family room. I suppose it would be different if every one of the 8 sibs showed up and each sib had several kids...but thats not the case.


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## inconditus (Oct 1, 2012)

Each individual is their own person and, really, you don't know how your kids are going to feel about your family.

I am the last of five. My sister has three kids, my oldest brother has two (not sure if they want more, it's a sore subject), my middle brother has two and him and his wife are planning for 4 or 5, my youngest brother has one and wants four. I'm pregnant with my first and H and I want as many as we can have, ideally 6 but we will see with the RH factor playing a roll. It's only a matter of time before I get sensitized and cut it off.

That being said at the moment my immediate family+kids is about 20 people? It does make holidays+birthdays hard on some, but as long as everyone agrees to shoulder the load then it's not that bad i.e. pot luck, bringing card tables, chairs, cleaning up after. Last thanksgiving I hosted everyone plus some friends for thanksgiving in my small 700sqft space. We used the whole space for eating, then tore it down as a group before we moved onto anything else.

In terms of the environmental thing I agree to a point. Again it all depends on the family. I know people with very large families that live pretty much self-sufficient lives. I also know other families with 1 or 2 kids that are huge consumers, don't recycle or compost anything, and generally live like the horrible sterotype that americans get.


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