# HELP! I can't believe we have thrush!



## mama maggie (Apr 9, 2003)

My baby is 4 weeks old today and I think we have thrush. I am a yeast infection prone person if ever there was one. I had the worst one in my last trimester of pregnancy ( it was way more painful than my five days of labor).

Anyhow, we have slightly burny nipples, also slightly shiny and dry, slight unidentifyable discomfort during sucking, and one little white patch on the roof of baby's mouth.

We try to avoid prescription drugs but don't want to suffer horribly.

We've been - taking acidophilus (both of us)
-washing nipples with vinegar
- taking grapefruit seed extract
- will begin taking echinacea

Any advice about these things?
Is there hope for us?
Can anyone tell me about gentian violet?
How can I ease baby's discomfort?
Any good advice is welcome.


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

I have been where you are, we battled it for MONTHS. Gentian Violet was the only thing that finally got rid of it.

I used GV 4-5 times a day for about a week. The first treatment gave us relief but its important to continue to use it consistently for at least 5 days. Be careful, it STAINS horribly.

This is what I did:

I applied the GV to my nipples and let it dry. Then I nursed my son. That way it had time to get the yeast spores on me and in my son's mouth. Once he was done nursing I let my nipples air dry and applied again and let it dry. Washable breast pads help it spread, so if you use breast pads, use disposable until its gone.

It thrives in a moist, milky environment so its important to let it air dry completely.

Wash ALL laundry in white vinegar. Again, it thrives in moist places so bath towels are a prime environment for it. You dry off with a towel after showering and it leaves some yeast spores, so make sure you wash your towels in vinegar too. Bras, baby clothes, sheets, towels, EVERYTHING. Don'y use bleach, it would take so much bleach to kill it that your clothes would shred.

Eat yogurt.

Make a solution of 1/4 cup vinegar:1 cup water in a squirt bottle and apply to nipples, air dry, the put the GV on and let it air dry, it double teams the yeast spores.

As the spores die, you'll notice that you are really tired. This is a good thing, make sure you get extra rest. As the yeast dies it releases a gas into your body that makrs you very tired. I felt like I'd been hit by a truck! Just rest as often as you can.

Good luck! If you'd like to e-mail me for support, please feel free to do so. [email protected]


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Check these out:

http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/yeast.shtml

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/genti...let_01-03.html

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/candi...col_12-02.html

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/fluconazole_01-03.html


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

My babies are 10 weeks old, and I've had thrush for about 8 weeks. It's really quite horrible. I also am a yeast-prone person. I think that eliminating sugar from your diet is a really important step. I tried gentain violet, but everything I read said not to use it for more than 3 or 4 days, 1 time/day. It was just starting to help a little after the third treatment, but I stopped using it due to advice from my LLLL and posters here. I took diflucan 100 mg for two weeks. . . it didn't do much. I took diflucan 200 mg for two weeks and it did help. I also ended up doing nystatin with the babies. The nystatin cream for me really helped. I had also tried Newman's nipple cream. . . no help. So, at this point nursing isn't really painful, but my nipples are still red and I still have white spots on my areolae. My diflucan just ran out and I am starting to feel the burning after nursing again. . . I think I'm gonna try another round of diflucan. I have also been using lots of vinegar. My babies never had any symptoms other than breaking suction while nursing (clicking). I will be soooo glad when the yeast is finally gone! I hope that day comes. . .

Good luck!

Lex


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## mama maggie (Apr 9, 2003)

I read a thread somewhere where the mom said she used Gentian Violet for 6 days and got rid of their thrush. What could be the harm in using it until it's gone? What is that stuff anyway, I mean , really, what is it? Is the baby supposed to ingest it? There are warnings on the label about ingestion.









thanks








mama maggie


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

I've been wondering the same thing. . . it's quite a substance. The reason you're not supposed to use it for more than 3 days is because it can cause sores in the baby's mouth (the baby doesn't ingest it, but you paint your nipple with it and it gets all over the baby's mouth). There was an Australian study that linked it to cancer of the mouth, or something like that. Gentian violet is a bit controversial. I am back to using it again. I put in on *after* nursing, and wash it off before I feed the babes. It doesn't all come off, but most of it does, so I think the babies are getting hardly any exposure. This way I can continue using it until the thrush is gone, six days or more. You could try using it for three days the regular way (before nursing, so your baby gets treated too), and then switch to the way I'm doing it. My midwife doesn't want me to take any more diflucan, so I'm really hoping this works!

Good luck!

Lex


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Lex, are you still treating your babies? You may want to try some GV on them at the same time you're treating you.....or they'll just pass it back to you.

I think that if you dip a Q-tip in the GV and then put it in your baby's mouth for a few seconds, that's enough to do the trick but they won't be ingesting much if any. That stuff is so powerful color-wise that it looks like a lot but really isn't, KWIM? I would only use it for 3-4 days, tops, and then see where you are, and repeat only after giving it a rest for a few days, as it can irritate.


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## Nikki Christina (Mar 27, 2003)

my daughter got a slight case around 1 month too.. the doc prescribed the oral nystatin..

we tried it 3 days .. she screamed & cried & threw up every time & her mouth got bad.. so I called the doc back & they said do the GV..

I took a q-tip & painted everywhere that was white in her month.. I did it 1 time & the next day is was gone. I was impressed


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## youngnhappymamma (Feb 3, 2002)

We are also struggling with nasty thrush right now. My breast and nipple have gotten so painful today! I think it all started for us about 4 months ago when my dd had to be put on an antibiotic for a really nasty ear infection. It's been on and off since then. In the past taking a pro-biotic has pretty much helped, but I guess not really since it's still with us and THRIVING. Ugh.
I am taking a pro-biotic about 3 to 4 times a day and giving my baby some through out the day (I just open a capsule and put a little on my finger and then in her mouth...she thinks it's funny!) and started vit c and I also have been mixing some pro-biotic poweder with water adn applying it my nipple and breast.
When I had a yeast problem with ds #2 I talked to a few different midwives who recomened buying some monistat cream (sold for vaginal yeast infections) and rubbing it into my breast several times a day. I have some...and think I wil try this tomorrow becasue I am really in a lot of pain and want to KILL THE YEAST!!!
How are the rest of you doing with your yeast?
And the whole washing in vinegar (clothes and nipple) is a great suggestion...I will ahve to do this starting tomorrow. For the clothes...can you just put some vinegar in a downy ball and toss it in the wash?


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

I just put the vinegar in the water as the washer was filling, along with my detergent, then added the clothes.


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## samsara (Jan 4, 2003)

what is up with the rampant thrush?! could it be that common or is it just something in the air? i've had it for about four weeks now; i'm about to call my midwife and have her prescribe diflucan because i just can't take it anymore. i've tried nystatin for myself and the baby, i've cut out sugar, i've cut down dairy, i'm walking around with my top off almost all the time...i can't find gentian violet anywhere -- the pharmacist actually said, "i haven't heard of that in years -- do we even sell it?" (they don't). i was opposed to the diflucan but i'm reconsidering because i'm so uncomfortable. the baby's clicking away, it's his only sign, but i'm flush with thrush!

younghappymama, the downy ball idea might be good, as it's designed to open during the rinse cycle -- maybe it would be more concentrated at that stage? the only thing is that the laundry might smell like vinegar, but at this point i can't see that it would matter much as smelling funny is the least of my concerns.


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## youngnhappymamma (Feb 3, 2002)

why do babies click with thrush???? I noticed my dd clicking a few times as the thrush has gotten worse and didn't know it was even a sympton until I read this thread.

samsara...I agree....I don't mind smelling of vinager for a few weeks if it means being free of thrush!!!


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

The vinegar smell goes away when the item dries...

I had thrush a couple of weeks ago on my nipples, and we are still pg, and not due until The end of July!!! I took acidopholus (sp) 2ce a day.. PUt TTO on my nipples 2ce a day, and made a past with the acidopholus and put that on my nipples before i went to bed.. IT went away in about 5 days.. I did feel like i was hit by a MAC truck hauling streethole covers or something....

HTH

War Squishy FEeling..

Dyan


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

samsara~ Actually, you're on the right track. If you have any mold in your house it actually thrives on that and lives on the spores. It also can travel through the air that way. Thats part of the reason its so important to wash your towels in the vinegar too, towels are a breeding ground for mold which in turn feeds the yeast spores. Viscious cycle, huh?

I did THREE rounds of Diflucan and Nystatin and couldn't kill the stuff. Gentian Violet was the only thing that would kill it. I had my pharmacy, K-Mart, order it. You can also order it on line, just do a google search. I used the 2% solution with no problems but some people are cautious and use the 1%.

youngnhappymamma~ They actually click because the thrush makes it painful to suck







.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

At LLL they said the clicking/thrush connection was that the baby's mouth was sore







. Only one of my babies started clicking (Jaz), and that is the only symptom either of them have had. The clicking stopped after I treated them with the (nasty) nystatin.

I think I am allergic to gentian violet. Or it is just too strong for me, or something. My nipples get very irritated when I use it, and this time they even got visible sores. So I stopped using it, and feel much better. I am almost yeast-free, but I can still feel it lingering in there. It is more itchy than painful, though, so much more tolerable now. ONe thing I learned is that even if you stop bfing, the thrush doesn't go away. This was great news because before when it got really bad (felt like glass in my nipple), I was thinking I might have to quit bf.

I don't know what to do next, though. Maybe just hope that it doesn't get any worse. I am not eating any sugar or white flour (already cut out dairy due to fussy babe). . . life for my taste buds is incredibly boring.

samsara: make sure you get your midwife to prescribe the right dosage of diflucan. Everything I've read says you need to take 400 mg the first day, and then 200 mg for two to three WEEKS. This is the only way to really get rid of it. My doctor/midwife will only prescribe 100 mg for two weeks (







). I tricked them into giving me two presriptions, so I could take 200mg a day for two weeks. It *almost* got rid of the thrush. I know that if I could've taken it for one more week I'd be yeast-free now. But they "don't feel comfortable" giving me any more! They say they're worried about my babies' livers







:. It's so frustrating how little they seem to know about thrush. They said they couldn't offer me any other advice/treatment. So I'm on my own now. Just wish I could write myself a prescription.

I am still using the nystatin nipple cream, and it really seems to help. Funny, since it's supposed to be the least effective method.

Good luck everyone!

Lex


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Lex, I am





















at your doctors! GRRR! They prescribe Diflucan for babies, for crying all night - and so little gets into your milk that it won't come close to matching the dose they'd get if they had a prescription! Frickin' morons. (I fired my first ped for refusing to prescribe a yeast treatment for ds because he didn't have visible patches in his mouth.)

Gentian violet can be ordered online at: http://www.americarx.com/search.asp?7=gentian


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

My dd and I had thrush for almost 2 months and what finally helped me get it gone for good was to rinse her mouth out with a little water after nursing. That gets rid of most of the leftover milk, not leaving anything for the yeast to grow on. (My mil found that trick in a very very old copy of Dr Spock, and it wasn't in any of the other BFing books I have!)


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

You can also put a little baking soda in water and swab it inside their mouth with a cotton ball. It disrupts the pH in their mouth which kills the yeast.


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

Wow, so many good suggestions. I finally figured out that the nursing problems I was having (arching away, nursing strikes) was due to the thrush--DUH. I have been washing stuff in vinegar, swabbing the twins with Nystatin and putting Lamisil AT (antifungal) on my boobs for just about a week now. While it hasn't gone away totally yet, it is a LOT better. If I have trouble getting it to go away in another week I might get out the really big guns like Diflucan. I'm also trying to cut out sugar--that's really hard for me--and changed my toothbrush.

BTW, I did read a thing about genetian violet possibly having a link to cancer? It was an Austrialian study. My mom found some studies about it on scirus.com...


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Well, I spoke too soon about being almost yeast-free. . . it came back with a vengance, I even had the glass-in-my-nipple feeling again. So I called the OB practice and was ready to start screaming at someone, when I got a really wonderful nurse on the phone. She actually knew about thrush! She prescribed the right amount of diflucan and was just so nice about it. It felt so wonderful to finally be heard! So now I am back on diflucan and the glass is out of my nipple. I guess I need to put the babies back on nystatin. Such a pain. I can't imagine how easy life would be without yeast.

Today Dp made me some sugar-free whole wheat muffins. They were inedible. I miss yummy treats.

Any ideas on how to de-yeast a foam nursing pillow? I've been washing the cover everyday, but am guessing that the foam itself is probably a huge yeast breeding ground since the boys have spit up into it so much.

Lex


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

Lex~ Can you make up the vinegar/water solution and put it in a spray bottle and spray the nursing pillow and then place it in the sun to dry? That may kill those yeasty beasties.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Dr. Sears' page on thrush has a blurb on the gentian violet-cancer thing halfway down the page:

http://askdrsears.com/html/2/T028100.asp

Also see this link: http://www.pcc.com/lists/pedtalk.arc...112/00071.html

Quote:

Q: Gentian violet, also known as crystal violet, is a lab dye derived from coal tar, and has found to be carcinogenic in some studies.
>

A: I think if you read the studies -- if you can find them -- (Jack Newman got both of them, I believe), the cancer was a rare liver tumor found in 1 of several rats fed approximately 600 x their weight in gentian violet or some astronomical figure like that. There have been no reported cases of cancer of either the nipple or the baby's oral cavity from gentian violet 1/2-1%
being swabbed on twice a day for two to three days -- or even four or five days for that matter.

Jan, RN, MA, IBCLC
Wheaton IL 60187


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

Sighhhh...well, the twins have had this thrush thing for two months, so I guess I can't expect it to go away in two weeks...

Been swabbing their tounges with Nystatin after EVERY feeding, and treating myself in all the usual ways, and things have improved...but it's not gone yet.

The twins were due to see the pediatrician today for their fourth-month checkup, and I was kind of hoping the doctor would offer suggestions for really getting rid of the problem. Ha! Just like the last appointment, he acted like thrush is nothing. (This is one reason I didn't treat it earlier...). It made me SO MAD!!







An LC I talked to said that is often the attitude because they are not the ones that have to deal with the discomfort. I dunno. He never told me it would cause breastfeeding problems. What the hell? Why would he NOT mention this?

Anyway. After some urging, he prescribed Difulcan for he twins. I am nervous about this because of what I have heard about it being hard on one's liver. He is not a fan of GV, so that's why he prescribed the Diflucan.


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## samsara (Jan 4, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by hank's mama_
*Lex~ Can you make up the vinegar/water solution and put it in a spray bottle and spray the nursing pillow and then place it in the sun to dry? That may kill those yeasty beasties.*
that's an excellent idea! i was hoping someone would have a suggestion about that ~ i'm worried about the same thing.

twinsmama, sounds like you're doing all the right stuff; i'm curious as to what your ped's GV objection is. not that it worked for us or anything, but it is supposed to be the most effective treatment...just wondering.

we started the diflucan two days ago; things are a little better but not great. plus, i'm running out of clean sheets (and the will to do more laundry, LOL ~ i'm swimming in it!)...this is such a freakin' PITA!!!!


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## mama maggie (Apr 9, 2003)

How bad does it hurt, anyway? I have some sharp shooting pains sometimes. Also, if the baby clicks, do they click all the time? It seems like my baby goes on and off sometimes but this could be due to other bodily functions (burping, etc...)


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

We tried Diflucan and Nystatin too and it just would not kill the stuff, thats why we turned to the GV. It was gone in a couple days but we found instant relief from it.

One of the things my LC told me to try was to let my nips dry in the sun, sit a chair by a sunny window and sit there and let the rays hit my tatas. I never tried this but it does seem to work so it may work on other items too, such as the nursing pillow.

I agree, drs seem to be very unconcerned about it, they aren't the ones dealing with the pain or a babe who won't nurse b/c s/he's in pain.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Thank goodness for this thread! Our thrush has been getting progressively worse for I don't know HOW long! In the past day he has pretty much only let me nurse him if I am walking around so he can distract himself from the pain by looking around. That boy has a HEAVY head!!

Anywhoo, the dr. prescribed nystatin, but said to use the same stuff to rub on my nipples -- that sound right to ya'll? It also says to use it 4 x's per day, whereas the webpage MDC links suggests after every feeding (although I get the idea that would mean a smaller dose each time).

Any thoughts/suggestions would be great. I am planning to wash my bras & towels in vinegar & buy new pacifiers (OT-he hardly uses them anymore







) I will also try to "air dry" myself







(I'm a closet exhibitionist hehe)


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

My baby is also refusing to nurse most of the time. . . well, not exactly refusing, but just on for ten seconds, and then off, and then on, and then off. . . and not really sucking when he's on, more like chewing (oww!). I am doing the nystatin too. . . yeast re-grows in 90 minutes or something, that's why the 4x a day prescription isn't really often enough. You can use half as much (i.e. 1 ml instead of 2 ml) and apply it twice as often. I have not been applying it after nighttime feeds. That just seems like more than I can handle. All this yeast is stressing me out bigtime and I need my sleep!

My kids still don't have any visual symptoms. . . strange? Jasper's mouth is definitely really sore. He won't suck on a finger anymore either. Luke doesn't seem affected at all. My nipples are feeling pretty good, and my breasts are feeling great (I can actually hug Dp, and hold the babies pressing into my boobs and it doesn't hurt!). The diflucan is definitely working, but I am beginning to worry about how toxic it is. I know that I should take it for another week if I really want it to work, but I don't really want to be on it for that long (it's been almost two weeks this round, I already took it for four weeks before).

I'm thinking of trying gentian violet again because Jasper doesn't seem to be responding to the nystatin that well.

I also started taking echinacea and garlic 3 times a day.

It was my birthday on Sunday (mother's day), and I didn't have one little bit of sugar, not even fruit, all day. It was incredibly sad.

Good luck yeast fighters!

Lex


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

We need a smilie for Yeast Fighters United, something along the lines of a combination of :bf and









Hang in there, mamas, and fight the good fight!


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

I eased off the Nystatin a little on their tongues for just two days while I tried to get started on the Diflucan, and the yeast came back. And does anyone know about any side-effects with the Diflucan? The twins have stopped sleeping as well and are now spending a lot of the day screaming. Does Diflucan upset the tummy or something?

This thrush thing is hell...

Time to call out the Yeast Killah! http://www.wishbonezine.com/yeastkillah.gif


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

We just had a thrush battle a couple of months ago and I didn't want to take diflucan or nystatin b/c of side-effects, so I called my nutritionist/herbalist and she said to make a concoction of 2Tablespoons of Olive oil with 8 drops each of tea tree, lavender, and 4 drops oregano oil. These are all anti-fungal, anti-yeast, anti-microbial. Swab your babies mouths with it as often as you can, and swab your nipples likewise. Take apple cider vinegar, 2Tb in 1/4 cup of warm water with 1 tsp honey, 3x daily, with meals. Take acidophilus 3x day, and to your children as well. Very important! It took about a week, but then it was gone. It disappeared on my dd within three days, and on my nipples in a week. I continued to do it for awhile after, just to make sure it was gone, and continue to do the apple cider vinegar and acidophilus everyday. I hope this helps everyone, it really worked for me. I also took homeopathic borax which helped too. If you have a chronic problem I would go see a naturopath, or a nutritionist to help with identifying where the imbalance may be. Doctors, imo, have no idea in this area.

~Holly


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

Twinsmama~ It doesn't hurt their tummies, it makes their mouths and throats sore. It gives them a really bad sore throat and makes it hard to suck and/or swallow. The Diflucan didn't cause my son any problems but it also didn't help things.


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

Thank you for the input. Do you mind me asking what your dosage was..?? Do you remember? The twins are on 1.5ml a day (3 the first day).

About 90 minutes after I administer the Diflucan, they get super-cranky and just yell all the time, arching their backs and spitting up and everything.







And yet the doctor said there were no side-effects. HA! Sorry, but I have the evidence. I think I might have to stop it--it's gotten really bad. Not sure what to try next if I have to get them off it. I might try Holly's wonderful recipe...


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

I'm not surprised they had that reaction, it is actually fairly common. When the doctor had suggested taking this when we had thrush, I went home and looked for info on the potential side-effects of the drug, even though they always say there are none. There always are. And of course some of the side-effects happen to be diarrhea, vomiting, upset stomach, stomach pain, headache, and actually the list goes on. This is why I refused to take it. If you google Diflucan, you should be able to get the pharmaceutical web sites and they will list the side-effects there.

How is everything going? Let us know.
~Holly


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Yeah, Diflucan is kind of a scary drug. I especially love how some of the info. says, "don't take this drug while nursing!!!" But other sites say that it is safe to take while nursing. . . It's all enough to give a new mom a nervous breakdown. My babies do very badly on nystatin. It makes them cranky and they throw up after I give it to them. Jasper pretty much stopped eating while he was on it. I asked the doctor if lack of appetite was a side-effect of the drug. She said, "No, definitely not." So, I sort-of kept giving it to him, assuming it was either the thrush or something else (a phase) that was making him not want to eat as much. A few weeks later, the boys were back on nystatin for another round. Jasper stopped eating again. So I did a google search, and it turned out that "anorexia" is one of the main side-effects!!! So no more nystatin for my babies! I put gentian violet all over jasper's tongue the other day when he was refusing to nurse due to soreness







. He's been great ever since, and his tongue is no longer white at all! Just after one application! I am gong to start treating us all with gentian violet this evening, hoping to kick this yeast once and for all.

Lex


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## hank's mama (Mar 2, 2003)

Let us know how it works, GV was the ONLY thing that got rid of it for us. I decided that the GV would be less 'toxic' in the long run b/c I'd be using less of it. We've been thrush-free for months now! GOOD LUCK and keep us posted!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by cinnamonamon_
*Anywhoo, the dr. prescribed nystatin, but said to use the same stuff to rub on my nipples -- that sound right to ya'll? It also says to use it 4 x's per day, whereas the webpage MDC links suggests after every feeding (although I get the idea that would mean a smaller dose each time).
*
I was given a nystatin cream for my nipples and a solution (liquid) for my baby's mouth. Four times per day is what my bottle says, but I did it a bit more often than that.

I think yeast is very prevalent out there these days, because lots of women seem to be having to deal with this thing. Wonder why? My baby now has the yeast diaper rash, which is very painful for him. He doesn't seem to have it in his mouth anymore -- does anyone out there think that I should be giving him the oral solution, or just use the cream on his bottom? I've just been using the cream so far. My nipples seem clear, too, so I've stopped using it on myself. Is this a mistake?

Interesting info about mold feeding yeast. Our apartment is full of mold, and I'm thinking that I'm allergic to it.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Does anyone know how to tell whether you have a systemic yeast infection? My baby had thrush in his mouth, and now has it on his bottom (diaper rash), and I have had a vaginal yeast infection on and off over the past few weeks. Also, I seem to have developed chronic diarrhea (and nursing seems to get it going real bad). I've eliminated dairy and wheat, which seems to have helped somewhat.

Now, after what seemed like a repreive, my baby is again having what seems to be intestinal pain, and sometimes seems to be fearing nursing, even though he doesn't appear to have any thrush in his mouth. Also, sometimes I hear clicking when he nurses. We treated it with nystatin solution orally for him and nystatin cream on my breasts. I also took acidopholis. Stopped the nystatin when it seemed to be cleared up on him, then lately he developed the thrush diaper rash, so I started using the cream on him. Should I be treating him orally, and should I be using it on myself again?


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

Things have gotten better, and yes personally I think there is such a thing as a systemic infection. I thought it was worthwhile to treat the other end too, just in case. I used Monistat for 10 days. Eliminating all extra sugar from my diet seems to be helping, and I just recently decided to eliminate cheese too (mold). I notice now that I have eliminated these things my skin seems a little clearer--perhaps the yeast problem was causing all sorts of bad reactions? Not sure. Am also taking acidopholis and putting vinegar on boobs regularly. Anyway, the important thing is the twins will now nurse for about 15 or 20 minutes like they used to, instead of 3 minutes or less. Also a lot less crabbiness, though I am not sure if the Diflucan is finally working or they're happy their father is home for the weekend!

But we're not out of the woods yet.







Saige started yelling after fifteen minutes of tonight's bedtime nursing, and tried chewing on one of my nursing rags instead and wouldn't latch back on for anything--obviously her tongue got a little worse again tonight for some reason. I wiped more Nystatin on her tongue and then her sister, as the doc said it was okay to treat them with the Diflucan and the Nystatin at the same time. I still put the Nystatin on their tongues after night feeds even though I can barely see what I'm doing. I've found more nursing = more sleep, so I'll do anything to make sure that happens!

They seem to be tolerating the Diflucan a _little_ better now than they were at first. They are still spitting up some, but not as much, I think. And definitely not as much crying/yelling (...though again, I wonder sometimes if that's because daddy has been around to help me hold them when needed!).

Lex, re: the Nystatin...um, you're not having kiddo swallow it, are you? Saige barfed too when I tried that. I later found out they're not supposed to ingest it really; I was supposed to just swab it on her tongue. (Or at least the form of Nystatin I have you are). Forgive me if you already knew that. I wish I had...doh!


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I have to say that I think the nystatin is clearing up the yeast for us. I am also boiling his pacifiers -- after every dose of med. he gets a new one -- and I get new breast pads all during the day.

A friend in my mommy's group was told by her dr. that if her baby had the thrush in his mouth & it was manifesting itself also as painful gas &/or diaper rash, then the infection had traveled all through his digestive tract & intestines, etc., so it was important that he did ingest some of the med. I have also read that it is quite important to get the baby ALL of the doses for the ENTIRE 2 weeks, as the yeast can build up a resistance to the med. quickly, otherwise.

Ian usually spits 1/2 of it out, but I get some down him by putting the dropper between his cheek & gums on the sides and putting a little pressure on his lil chin so he has a chance to decide to swallow it before automatically spitting it out (since it isn't yummy mommy milk







). Other good tips -- that might already be down, I'm not sure, are rinsing his mouth with a little water after nursing/before med. (I use the dropper and put a bit in at a time & let him smack his lips







) and giving him the med. AFTER nursing - if you do it before, then it just gets washed away.

HTH & sorry if any of the info is a repeat!


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Twinsmama_
*Lex, re: the Nystatin...um, you're not having kiddo swallow it, are you? Saige barfed too when I tried that. I later found out they're not supposed to ingest it really; I was supposed to just swab it on her tongue. (Or at least the form of Nystatin I have you are). Forgive me if you already knew that. I wish I had...doh!*
Interesting! My doctor told me they were *supposed* to swallow it!! At first I would give it to them just like the ped. said: 2 ml (one in each cheek) 3 times a day. It all got puked up and was horrible. Then I started just swabbing their tongues with a q-tip that had been dipped in nystatin, after every nursing. This too made them spit up, even though I had only been using a teensy amount. Now I am using the GV which they both tolerate really well. It doesn't seem to have any side effects.

I sure do wish the doctors would get their acts together and learn a thing or two about how to treat thrush! I had to switch pediatricians b/c my first one wouldn't prescribe anything since the boys had no visible symptoms!

Pookietooth: Thrush does not always show up visibly in babies' mouths, especially in young babies. The clicking means that your baby's mouth is sore, so that could make him not want to nurse. My babe only recently got a white tongue, and he's had the clicking for about 8 weeks or so. You should definitely be treating yourself too, even if you don't have any sympotoms. Have you considered using gentian violet? It's supposed to be really quick and effective. I was using it wrong at first, and so it didn't work, but now it is working wonders for us.

Good luck to all!

Lex


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Lex, glad to hear the GV is working for you! What were you doing wrong before, and what are you doing now that's working wonders?

For me, I dipped the qtip in the GV, painted my entire breast a nice rich shade of purple (it would take plenty of gv to do this), then used another qtip with GV to paint ds' tongue.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lexbeach_
*
Pookietooth: Have you considered using gentian violet? It's supposed to be really quick and effective. I was using it wrong at first, and so it didn't work, but now it is working wonders for us.

*
Should I try it in addition to nystatin, or instead of it? I worry about it because it's a derivative of coal tar, but if it's quicker than the nystatin, that would be great.


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## sadie (Dec 17, 2001)

Hi, mostly I lurk (because I don't really feel helpful most of the time!) but thrush, unfortunately, is something my son and I are veterans of.

The only thing that really worked for me was lots of acidophilus tablets, 8 a day (2 four times a day). My son responded fine to the nystatin (turns out I am allergic to the cream, but that's a whole other story) A vinegar wash on my nipples, and then letting them dry in the sun was also helpful (and felt good too...) Depending on the age of your baby, it might help to swab his/her mouth with yogurt too, I think Stonyfield has a good baby yogurt.

For yeasty diaper rash, I found it helped to use Burt's Bees diaper cream (lots of lavender) and to alternate drying my diapers in the sun with throwing them in the dryer, and adding to the dryer a rag with 8-10 drops of tea tree or lavender oil on it. These are great antifungals and they make your diapers smell good too.

To help with nursing until we got rid of the thrush I used baby orajel on my nipples, providing a little anesthetic for both of us. I know not everyone here is into that kind of thing, but it was a great help if you don't object to topical pain relievers.

Good luck!

- S.


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

It looks like we are finally through with the thrush. I thought it would never end! Diflucan finally did the trick. Just to be safe I also put Nystatin on their tongues, did the vinegar thing, and washed & boiled everything like crazy.

I am staying away from processed sugar and cheese as extra insurance, and also taking acidopholis...I don't ever want to have to go through that again.

So we are all done with that challenge...just in time for teething to begin!







:


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

I just dropped in on this thread out of curiosity, but now I am wondering if maybe WE have thrush (hypochondria, anyone?). No, seriously, ds (8weeks) has been clicking (occasionally) when he nurses for a several weeks now, and when he yawns, his gums where his molars would be are a lighter grayish/pink than the rest of his mouth.

He doesn't seem to be in any sort of pain or discomfort when nursing, and I'm not having any pain or discomfort, either. Also, I've never even had a yeast infection - I just don't seem to be a "yeasty" type of person.

Is this a mild case of thrush? Just coincidental similarities? Is there some sort of definitive test for thrush? We have a ped. appt next week, but from reading this thread, I'm afraid if it is thrush, the ped. will either not recognize it, or downplay it.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but who better to answer these questions than the experts?

TIA


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Accidental premature posting














:








:

Lex


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Kinsey43: it doesn't sound like thrush to me. All babies have lighter colored gums back where their molars are going to be (I think. . . at least all of the babies I know). Since you don't have any symptoms other than the clicking, I'll bet the clicking is due to something else. The "click" happens when the baby momentarily breaks suction while nursing. It could just be a habbit, or it could be due to something else. . . I don't know what, though! As long as the clicking isn't causing your nipple any discomfort, and your baby is still nursing well, I wouldn't worry about it.

My update: I continue to be the yeastiest person on the planet. I now have a ringworm "ring" on one of my breasts. I guess ringworm is actually another form of yeast. It doesn't bother me at all, but is just a visible sign of the fact that yeast has taken over my body--or at least my breasts! I'm not having any discomfort so long as I put gentian violet on EVERY DAY (I wash it off so that the babies don't get over-dosed). Once a week or so, I treat the babies with GV too. They get white stuff on their tongues now, so it's easy to tell when it's time to treat them. Also, Luke has a very mild yeast diaper rash. I'm completely at a loss as to how to get RID of the yeast. I seem to just be kind of maintaining things right now. I'm trying to get an appointment with a natropath to see if we can attack the yeast overgrowth from another angle or something. I think the twin pregnacy was just really hard on my body. I need to do some major immune system reconstruction.

Hope the rest of you are doing better than me!

Lex


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## schatz (May 6, 2003)

kinsey43:

I just had my dd checked on Wednesday for thrush because the roof of her mouth and molar areas were what I considered white. the doc said that was normal. I went in for the check because we have been battling thrush for 5 months and i didn't want to keep giving her med if she didn't need them. conversely, if it was still thrush, then the meds weren't working anymore. the good thing, she is thrush-free. I, however, am still treating myself because the yeast has found a happy home on my bbs and although i've almost got it licked, it's not quite gone.

lexbeach: i assume you've changed your diet (no sugar, carbs, dairy, artificia sweeteners), added things like acidopholus, garlic, grapefruit seed extract, echinaccea to battle your yeast - yes? I've recently added some sugar and carbs back in but I think they're causing me little flare-ups - no pain just more pink than I'd like. But, I just couldn't stand it anymore. Good luck!


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

who was asking about the twin nursing pillow? If you're still worried about it, I would encase the inside in a plastic bag or two (maybe a trash bag?) and then put the cover on, if you're really worried it might be carrying yeast.


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## samsara (Jan 4, 2003)

lexbeach, i can't believe it...if it's not one thing, right?! mine finally went away, after about 9 weeks; i think i still have a little but there's no more pain while nursing and he's not clicking anymore, just a little tingling in my breasts at the end of the day but i think it might just be from overuse -- the boy is an eating machine. the thing that finally did the trick was grapefruit seed extract, 15 drops/4 X daily in a short glass of OJ (trying to keep the sugar intake to an absolute minimum, but the GSE is so bitter i had to put it in the juice). nystatin didn't work, diflucan didn't work, GV didn't work...GSE baby, GSE. i think all the rain and general dampness just made it so hard to kick.

and i called Boppy, who told me I could machine wash/dry my pillow, so I threw it in the washer with a cup of white vinegar, then dried it on low. can't say for sure if it worked, but it sure looks pretty!

hang in there everybody!


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

GSE is the one thing I *haven't* tried. I'm gonna go get some today. How much do I give to the babes? I sure do hope it works. I would like to be able to bf without having to deal with this whole yeast scene.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Lex


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## Kiki Runs (Oct 7, 2002)

thanks lexbeach and schatz for the responses. after posting, I thought about it a little more and realized that since the only symptom he had was the occasional clicking, that more than likely it wasn't thrush. It was good to know that other mamas out there (who are dealing w/the real deal) agreed w/me.

I think I was just being a bit paranoid b/c when ds was in the NICU, I was told that he *would* get thrush.







: Thankfully, we're still waiting on that one.

From reading your posts, thrush does not sound at all like something that would be easy do deal w/, and I wish you all luck.

Kinsey


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bellasmum_
*We just had a thrush battle a couple of months ago and I didn't want to take diflucan or nystatin b/c of side-effects, so I called my nutritionist/herbalist and she said to make a concoction of 2Tablespoons of Olive oil with 8 drops each of tea tree, lavender, and 4 drops oregano oil. These are all anti-fungal, anti-yeast, anti-microbial. Swab your babies mouths with it as often as you can, and swab your nipples likewise. Take apple cider vinegar, 2Tb in 1/4 cup of warm water with 1 tsp honey, 3x daily, with meals. Take acidophilus 3x day, and to your children as well.*
I didn't know you could take tea tree oil internally. Do you use 100% pure tea tree oil, or a dilution?


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## SmilesALot (Nov 20, 2001)

I have a question here. The symptom that I see inmy baby is white deposits on her tongue and the roof of her mouth. I don't have much symptoms myself except may be one nipple looks pale compared to the other. the pediatrician was not too concerned about the white patch in my baby's mouth and said that he would prescribe something if I asked for it. Should I get some medication?

Thanks for all your valuable suggestions!


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I just heard of a great "test" today that a woman was told by her doctor. After you feed your baby, wipe her tongue off with gauze so it is a normal pink color. Wait about 20 minutes -- if it is white again then it is thrush.

Good luck. Ours went away fairly easily with the nystatin the dr. prescribed -- although we still had some symptoms after we were finished with it, they faded within a week.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SmilesALot_
*I have a question here. The symptom that I see in my baby is white deposits on her tongue and the roof of her mouth. I don't have much symptoms myself except may be one nipple looks pale compared to the other. the pediatrician was not too concerned about the white patch in my baby's mouth and said that he would prescribe something if I asked for it. Should I get some medication?
*
Sounds like thrush to me. Do you hear clicking when your baby is nursing? Does your baby seem fussy? Does your baby refuse to nurse or cut short nursing sessions? If yes, then I'd treat it with medications (nystatin liquid in your baby's mouth, nystatin cream on your nipples). Otherwise, just do all the home remedies: put 1 cup of vinegar in the rinse cycle when you do your wash (all of baby's clothes and your bras and tops), change nursing pads after every nursing session, take lots of acidopholis, rinse your nipples and your baby's mouth with plain water (or water with a little bit of vinegar in it) after nursing, change your bras daily (and wash them every time you wear them -- then hang them in the sun to dry), wash anything that comes into contact with your nipples or your baby's mouth, including clothing, teething toys, etc. in hot soapy water and sun dry if possible, and get lots of rest.

You don't want the yeast to go further into your breasts, or you will be in a lot of pain. Oh, and if you or your DH/partner have yeast genitally (vaginal yeast, jock itch), treat it twice as long as normal. Get rid of all mold in your home, as yeast feeds on mold. Cutting out dairy and wheat supposedly helps (do a search on "candida diet" on google). Expose your nipples to sun for a few minutes several times per day (and if your baby develops a yeast diaper rash, do the same for baby's diaper area -- with the sun through a *closed* window). You may also want to look into homeopathic treatments, which are less harsh than the prescription stuff.


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## Twinsmama (Apr 8, 2003)

It might be good to have the Nystatin on hand, just in case. It's possible that the white you are seeing is milk fat and no cause for concern. (I thought my twins still had it after they were all-clear--but someone told me what I was seeing was actually milk fat). Is your baby fussing a lot at mealtime? If so, that's a major tip-off that it could be thrush.


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## SmilesALot (Nov 20, 2001)

I am glad to see all the responses. I am going to try the natural remedies before I go for any prescription drugs. My dd does click occasionally but her nursing seems fine. This is a wonderful forum to get all kinds of experiences shared and get different kinds of remedies also. Thanks for everyone who took the time to post here.

Peace and love!


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## mama maggie (Apr 9, 2003)

I love the sound of the essential oil/cider vinegar/acidophilus remedy. I wish I had heard of that when we had thrush. We used GV and I was so mad when I found out that it was a coal tar by product that has been linked to cancer of the mouth. I always try to avoid fossil fuel by products and I cant believe I used one on my precious baby. I know it's my own fault for not researching it more carefully before using it but it still really pisses me off to even think of it. I'm glad to see the natural remedy, It's restoring some of my faith in this board. I haven't been around much since the whole truth about GV came out.

Good luck fighting thrush to all-I'm recovering from my anger over using GV.


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## lizziejean (Feb 8, 2003)

My little guy (almost 1) has white patches in his mouth that won't rub off, and I have a sore sore nipple with like red blisters on it, one of which has turned into a sore... so I guess I can join the club! the 'crushed glass' description is right on.

The information in this thread is wonderful, but a couple more questions:

- what about daycare? is he contagious? what about playdates - out of the question? and music class - what if he puts the instruments in his mouth? antibacterial wipes aren't going to get rid of yeast!!

- I am tandem nursing my 2.5 yr old dd also. Since I noticed the sores in ds's mouth yesterday, I haven't let her nurse (she's been fine with it! unbelievable) and she doesn't seem to have any symptoms. If, just if, I don't let her nurse until say 2 weeks are up and the yeast is gone from ds and I, would it be alright to not treat her at all and then let her start nursing again after the 2 weeks? I can just see huge battles with her if I need to put stuff in her mouth 4xday!! (also as the more perceptive of you can tell I'm kind of thinking about weaning her and if she goes for 2 weeks without, then maybe she can go forever? of course I am conflicted about this)

Oh and get this - I called the ped this morning to ask whether ds could go to daycare (he said yes, daycare said no, not until he's been on 'medication' for 24 hrs) and he said 'well it's nothing serious, just athlete's foot of the mouth'!!! try having a nipple with ground glass in it, buster, and then we'll see what's serious!

So I guess I'm going to have to take the medical route to solve this - I hate that - it's like when I have to give them antibacterial drops when they get pinkeye, even though ebm cures it too, just so that they can go to daycare - they have to have a dr's note that they have been on meds for 24 hrs... grrrr.

any help greatly appreciated...

Liz.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

lizzieejean, on the daycare front: yeast is something we all have in or on our bodies all the time, and thrush happens when there's an imbalance that lets it get out of control. So I would not have any hesitations about letting ds go to daycare; the other babies can't "catch" thrush from him, at least not through casual contact.

my only concern about not treating dd is that she might have a yeast imbalance already and if she starts nursing again after the two week period (assuming you can get rid of it in yourself and your baby during that time, it often takes much longer) and if she starts up nursing again it might cause you and the baby to have yeast problems again.

and yeah, most peds don't have a clue when it comes to thrush. i fired our first ped for refusing to treat ds because he was asymptomatic, when I clearly had yeast in my breasts.

mama maggie, with respect to gv: obviously it's your decision and your comfort level as to what you want to use, but just to let you know that the studies linking gv to cancer were a) done in mice and b) done at doses many hundreds of times more than what a baby would get during treatment for thrush. I know that Dr. Jack Newman and other lactation experts do not see cancer as a real risk from gv, which is why I felt comfortable using it (and it was the only thing that worked for us, and I tried all the conventional and alternative treatments first). Don't know if that will make you feel any better or not.


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## mama maggie (Apr 9, 2003)

Thanks, Jane. It does make me feel better, I'm just kind of fanatical about chemicals and cancer, and fossil fuels, and stuff. Anyway, the GV got rid of all of our yeast symptoms and we haven't been bothered since.
Thanks,
Maggie


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:

I'm just kind of fanatical about chemicals and cancer, and fossil fuels, and stuff.
I totally hear you. I was on the web searching down every obscure website that might mention gv before finally deciding to use it...after 4 weeks of Diflucan and everything else under the sun. I wouldn't want to use it frequently, though.


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