# how many times before you'd call the police? little league



## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

how many times would you allow a parent to essentially abandon their child at the baseball field before you would call the police?

my younger brother coaches his son in little league. nephew is on the 7, 8 & 9 year olds team.

there is a child (he is 8) who is on their team this year who has parents who pull up to the field, child gets out of the car, and they drive off. he is always there at a minimum of 15 minutes late for the start of the game - meaning he's actually 30 minutes late b/c they are supposed to be there early for some practice time. then, the parents leave him there for the entire game by himself and don't show back up until well after the game has ended.

the first time it happened the parents didn't get back until 45 minutes after the game ended. they never got out of the car, just drove up, honked the horn loudly and obnoxiously and the kid ran over and got in the car.

the second time it happened, my brother asked the kid to stay with him until his dad came and got him b/c it wasn't safe for him to run across the parking lot - all the while planning on speaking to the dad, and this was the only way he could think of to get the dad out of the car in the moment. he didn't want to walk the kid to the car and try to talk to the dad and have the dad just drive off.

the dad was all pissed off at the kid for not coming to get in the car immediately (lots of honking and window rolled down to yell at him to "get moving!"

dad and my brother had words. my brother told him that he wasn't running a daycare and that the dad needed to stay so that the kid wasn't by himself. the dad told him that he had other things to do and didn't have time to sit there. made lots of excuses about how he works all week and he has to get his oil changed, etc, etc. my brother told him that he needs to come back and get his kid and not leave him and that he's not going to keep waiting around for the guy to get back.

well, yesterday, it was happening again. my brother was angry and said he was giving them 10 minutes before he called the police. he also said maybe he'd take the kid in his car to the police station and let them know what was happening.

i said i thought it was a bad idea to put the kid in his car for all sorts of reasons, but that i thought calling the police was a good idea. the parents have had several chances to not do this as well as being spoken to already.

we had to leave, so i'm not sure if he called them or not, but i hope he did. i reminded him that most daycares wouldn't hesitate to call the police and report the child as abandoned if the parents did that at a daycare.

have any of you run in to this sort of thing before? what helped? and, if you did call the police, what happened?


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## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

I wouldn't call the police. This isn't illegal.

The child is 8. In my state, the parents are allowed to leave him unsupervised for "reasonable" periods of time. Leaving him alone for 45 minutes after the end of the Little League game wouldn't trip any triggers for child neglect here.

I wouldn't have a problem asking the parents not to do it, though, if it bothered me. I would tell the parents that you don't want to leave the child alone after the end of the game and that if they can't be back before the end of the game to pick him up, the child can't participate.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

but, if my brother just left him there by himself until the parents got back he'd probably be arrested and one can only imagine the coverage on the news.

why should he allow the parents to essentially hold him hostage until it's convenient for them to come back? he's got a life too and can't wait around for them.

are you suggesting he just leave the kid there to fend for humself?


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

My instinct in most things is to leave the cops out of it, but in this case, I do think I'd call if only to let them know whats going on. It may not be illegal for them to leave their kid byhimself... but I don't think its legal for your bro to just leave him by himself. If dad/mom can't drop him off/pick up at the correct times then he can't participate. Simple really.


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## MomOnDaEdge (Nov 10, 2007)

Having had this problem in the past, the best I can offer is what worked for me.

Once late, understandable. Twice late, okay, could be extenuating circumstances. Third time, your using me as a free babysitter and that does not fly. Unless there are extended extenuating circumstances but that's not what's going on here.

I typed up a very nicely worded letter stating very clearly when practice was over, that I had other obligations after practice and all children must be picked up within 10 minutes of practice being let out. (Depending on where you live traffic can be an issue). If a parent or someone a parent had authorized has not picked up the child by then I had no choice but to contact the authorities as I would not leave a child alone after being in my care.

Caused a tiny bit of grumbling from a select few, but it worked. HTH's


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I think getting the police involved is extreme. But I also don't have another solution that doesn't punish the kid instead of the parent.


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

I agree with the earlier poster who said it's perfectly legal for the parents to leave the child at the park for 45 minutes, but not for the coach to do so.

I wouldn't call the police, but I would let the parents know that if they or another responsible adult could not be present during games and practices, their child will not be able to participate. Crafting a policy regarding this behavior that penalizes exactly and only the right person is beyond the scope of a Little League coach. The coach's priority should be to limit liability and ensure kids are safe. So even if it does penalize the child, these parents should not be allowed to simply drop their kid off and leave for hours.


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## bluebirdiemama (May 2, 2008)

I agree w pps. This behavoir is really crappy. These parents will regret their behavior when they realize how valuable their son is...which I hope happens reeeaally soon. Poor kid.
But I don't think it's illegal. Even if the behavior is negletful in some ways and hurtful to the little guy, calling the police could make it worse.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Maybe your brother could ask one of the the other families to call the parents and offer to drive the kid home?


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## r&mmommy (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm assuming this is a league and there are administrators? They must have a policy about this and I would find out what it is before doing anything. That said, I would have removed the child from the team before calling the police. (and yes, that's sad, but not as sad as being investigated and possibly removed from your home).


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I wouldn't call the police. It's not illegal.

If your brother truly cannot stay after the game's over, then he should contact the person in charge of the Little League program in your area and explain the situation. He can say that he cannot stay and ask that someone from the recreation department be there to stay with the child or whether he can leave the child with a referee or other official adult.

Your brother cannot simply tell the child he cannot come anymore. Your brother's not in charge of the league, and that's not his call.

Before I did anything, however, I would make an effort to contact the father when he's not honking his horn for his son to come to the car. Perhaps he doesn't know what time the games get over; even if he does, a reminder may be helpful. My husband coaches our son's team, and he sends out weekly email reminders to all of the parents about game time, snack parents, etc. You said he was 45 minutes late the first time, but is he that late all the time? The first line for me is to assume he doesn't know the correct time and let him know. Then, if he continues to be that late, at least you know he's doing it with full knowledge.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I feel bad for the kid if his parents aren't staying for the games







but, I woudln't involve the police.


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## r&mmommy (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:

Your brother cannot simply tell the child he cannot come anymore. Your brother's not in charge of the league, and that's not his call.
This is not the case around here. Coaches are in charge of their team and have that authority.
OP - Again I would suggest making sure your brother checks the league rules for his particular organization.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

If this child has parents who can't be bothered to spend the time watching a game their son / daughter is in, then I would let this go. This child will remember how the coach went the extra mile and made him/ her feel welcome and part of a team. I know it's not your brothers job to babysit but if were he and could do it then I would.


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

I think the parents will pull the kid from the team,or physically punish him if the parents actions result in police being called.

The parents are very unlikely to change.This kid sounds like he could use a break from his family.I would pick him up and drop him off myself.I could understand being mad if it was 5-10 kids,but it is just one boy needing a little extra from any adult who will give him some time.Consider helping him out.Season won't last long,but doing this will be something the boy remembers.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *r&mmommy* 
This is not the case around here. Coaches are in charge of their team and have that authority.
OP - Again I would suggest making sure your brother checks the league rules for his particular organization.

I must say I've never heard of that being the rule, and I've been around tons of kids' activities. Even on select teams my family members have participated in, the coaches cannot just say "you paid your fees, but your parents are late. Tough, you're off the team." They may choose (in some cases) to sit the child out, but they cannot just kick them off the team (and really you're hurting the child more if you'd kick a 7YO off a team because his parents are late). Little League, especially for 7-9 year olds just typically doesn't work that way.

There's a girl I'd love to be off our soccer team because we could fill the spot with someone who would show up consistently, but it's not that easy. I wish it were, but we try to remind ourselves that it's her parents' fault for not bringing her because she's only 6.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
If this child has parents who can't be bothered to spend the time watching a game their son / daughter is in,

Ya know, I don't think parents should be expected to watch every single game that their child participates in. It's nice to go to some, but I think every single game is one of those ridiculous modern expectations. Maybe if the parent loves the sport, but still!

To the op, I wonder if your brother could get a note in writing from the parent saying that the child is authorized to stay at the park alone?

There are a number of 1st graders in my dd's class who play at the local park for 30 minutes to 1 hour after school until their parents get them. I actually think that's a preferable solution to the after-school program, which has the surliest teenagers I've ever seen supervising the kids, and seems to involve mainly cartoons and sugary snacks.


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## r&mmommy (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
I must say I've never heard of that being the rule, and I've been around tons of kids' activities. Even on select teams my family members have participated in, the coaches cannot just say "you paid your fees, but your parents are late. Tough, you're off the team." They may choose (in some cases) to sit the child out, but they cannot just kick them off the team (and really you're hurting the child more if you'd kick a 7YO off a team because his parents are late). Little League, especially for 7-9 year olds just typically doesn't work that way.

There's a girl I'd love to be off our soccer team because we could fill the spot with someone who would show up consistently, but it's not that easy. I wish it were, but we try to remind ourselves that it's her parents' fault for not bringing her because she's only 6.

I'm sure every area is different, which is why I suggest that the brother talk to the organization head. That said, I didn't complete my thought process in my previous post - I would only take the child off the team as a last resort. If I've spoken to the parents, and maybe wrote something to the parents, and I'm still sitting with the child 45 minutes *after* games or practice. Then it would be something I'd seriously consider. I wouldn't, in any event, call the police.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

I agree with a pp who said writing a politely worded letter to the parents reminding them of the time and warning them of possible police/authority involvement if this behaviour continues might be helpful. Some people need to have the fear or conseuqences put into them to prevent them from taking advantage of others.

Involving the police in reality may have worse consequences for the poor kid.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

First, the coach needs to find out if there is a specific league requirement for a parent/adult to remain at the games. I would guess that there isn't and it is hard for me to imagine expecting a parent to stay for every single game. Some families with multiple kids spend their game days just getting kids to/from different fields at different times for different games. Not every parent is going to stay at every game. When DS played little league, we stayed for many but certainly not all of his games, and I certainly don't think of myself as a deadbeat parent. Its just not possible to give up that much time to watch one child's sporting events!

Next, is there a rule about what the coach is supposed to do with kids who aren't picked up on time? If so, he needs to follow that. If not, he should ask the league officers what to do before he does anything -- definitely a big "CYA" sort of situation.

Our Brownie troop has a rule, explained to all of the parents at the beginning of the year, that a child left longer than 15 minutes past the stated end time of the meeting will be transported to the leader's house. At least that way the coach isn't stuck at the field forever. If he does that, then I would definitely make it an entire-team announcement and maybe even have the parent's sign a permission slip for transportation.

Coach should have the parent's cell phone or emergency contact number in case of injury. If the parent isn't there are the end of the game, he should call and say "we are finished here, I expect you to pick up little Johnny within the next 15 minutes."

But the police definitely sounds like overkill -- its not illegal for the child to be at the ballpark alone and unsupervised, any more than it is illegal for the child to ride his bike around the neighborhood alone.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

All of the daycares my dd has been at give fifteen minutes to half an hour after close and then they call the police to come get the abandoned kid. Some will also call or drop a kid from the program if it is an ongoing problem. I think it would be a good idea for him to talk to the coordinator about dropping the kid from the program or putting some other penalty on the late parents. I think that it is completely reasonable for a parent to drop a kid off for a game or practice where the activity is specifically for the child, but leaving them there for 45 minutes after the game is abandonment and should be treated as such. They also require a certain amount of payment per minute after closing time.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellabaz* 
I think getting the police involved is extreme. But I also don't have another solution that doesn't punish the kid instead of the parent.

That. I would hate to call the police but I don't know of any alternatives.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fuamami* 
Ya know, I don't think parents should be expected to watch every single game that their child participates in. It's nice to go to some, but I think every single game is one of those ridiculous modern expectations. Maybe if the parent loves the sport, but still!

.

I dont think thats the issue at heart. The parents are continuously dropping their child off late and not picking up on time. Thats the issue. In our area most league coaches are volunteers and have FT jobs and family the last thing they want to do is wait around an extra 45 min because a parent cant be bothered to pick their child up on time. And really that seems to be the case here, I think most people would react differently if it were say due to a car breaking down or an accident.

To the OP, surely there is an organization head. I would ask your brother to speak to them about the occurences and see if they can contact the father and let them know if the behavior continued that the child can not participate. It isnt fair to the team to have late memebers arriving and certainly not fair to the people who have to stick around until the child is picked up. I think it can be a liability issue for the organization if the coach left the child unsupervised.


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## jen in co (May 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
...I would let the parents know that if they or another responsible adult could not be present during games and practices, their child will not be able to participate...

My DD is 7 and plays softball and soccer (we coach soccer). It's not unusual for parents to drop off for practice. Many stay, but many do not. As far as games, most players have at least one parent/guardian staying to watch. I think not sitting through practices is typical at this age.

As far as the being late thing goes, that's not acceptable and I think you can say if someone doesn't show up within 10 minutes of the end of practice multiple times, that child won't be allowed on the team...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I would've called already.

Either that or send home a notice that you'll be charging $15/hour for all babysitting and that the babysitting clock starts 10 minutes after each game or practice.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

You'd have to clear it with the league, but a policy that charges the parents a few dollars per min. they are late after 10 or 15min after the end of practice was very effective when I coached. ie Practice ends at 2pm you have till 2:10 to pick your kid up after that it's a dollar a min for child care. The money can be put towards team snacks or into the league fund or something.

In fact it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a league wide policy on pick up and late parents. That's something I think your brother should bring to the league's attention.

I don't have a problem with parents dropping kids off for games or practice.


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## COgirl19 (Dec 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
If this child has parents who can't be bothered to spend the time watching a game their son / daughter is in, then I would let this go. This child will remember how the coach went the extra mile and made him/ her feel welcome and part of a team. I know it's not your brothers job to babysit but if were he and could do it then I would.

But the danger here is that the kids parents will have an expectation of free baby-sitting. What if the coach has a doctor's appointment or some other obligation that can't be re-scheduled...or worse, a family emergency that he absolutely NEEDS to attend too? Considering that in this case the coach can be put under investigation or prosecuted for leaving the child alone after practice I would make it very clear to the parents that this is unacceptable. I would definitely have the director of the league contact the parents if you can. Sometimes a "higher" authority helps a lot and it will also ensure that whatever your brother does, it is in line with league rules and he won't be putting himself in any danger of accusations or disciplinary actions against him.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I don't see why an 8yo can't go to little league without mom or dad there. Yes, it would be great if a parent came, as it would show support and interest in the child. But I would not consider it necessary.

However, parents repeatedly not returning in good time to pick up their child shows complete lack of respect for everyone else. Your brother is kindly coaching this team. He is not a baby sitting service; he has his own life and responsibilities after the game.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomOnDaEdge* 
Having had this problem in the past, the best I can offer is what worked for me.

Once late, understandable. Twice late, okay, could be extenuating circumstances. Third time, your using me as a free babysitter and that does not fly. Unless there are extended extenuating circumstances but that's not what's going on here.

I typed up a very nicely worded letter stating very clearly when practice was over, that I had other obligations after practice and all children must be picked up within 10 minutes of practice being let out. (Depending on where you live traffic can be an issue). If a parent or someone a parent had authorized has not picked up the child by then I had no choice but to contact the authorities as I would not leave a child alone after being in my care.

Caused a tiny bit of grumbling from a select few, but it worked. HTH's









Bravo! This would be a great plan.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04* 
I think the parents will pull the kid from the team,or physically punish him if the parents actions result in police being called.

The parents are very unlikely to change.This kid sounds like he could use a break from his family.I would pick him up and drop him off myself.I could understand being mad if it was 5-10 kids,but it is just one boy needing a little extra from any adult who will give him some time.Consider helping him out.Season won't last long,but doing this will be something the boy remembers.

Also agreed. His parents are not likely to change. They may end up angry though, and that anger will be displaced to their son or your brother. It won't be anger or disappointment in themselves. This child may already have very narrow, limited options because of his parents.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
If this child has parents who can't be bothered to spend the time watching a game their son / daughter is in, then I would let this go. This child will remember how the coach went the extra mile and made him/ her feel welcome and part of a team. I know it's not your brothers job to babysit but if were he and could do it then I would.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomOnDaEdge* 
Having had this problem in the past, the best I can offer is what worked for me.

Once late, understandable. Twice late, okay, could be extenuating circumstances. Third time, your using me as a free babysitter and that does not fly. Unless there are extended extenuating circumstances but that's not what's going on here.

*I typed up a very nicely worded letter stating very clearly when practice was over, that I had other obligations after practice and all children must be picked up within 10 minutes of practice being let out. (Depending on where you live traffic can be an issue). If a parent or someone a parent had authorized has not picked up the child by then I had no choice but to contact the authorities as I would not leave a child alone after being in my care.*

Caused a tiny bit of grumbling from a select few, but it worked. HTH's









This is definitely the way to go.

ETA: does the local LL organization have an official policy on this?


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

When I was 8 yo, I walked to the park all by myself.

There is an episode of Arthur where Brain's and Binky's mom are late to pick them up after a soccer game. Brain and Binky just hang out with each other while waiting. No coach stays, no one considers calling the police.

I think calling the child abandoned and calling the police is a huge over reaction.

How far from the field does the kid live? Could he just walk home. Couldn't your brother just call the parents up and talk to them. Say the current situation isn't working and talk about alternatives, such as having him travel to and from games with a teammate.


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## Ellen Griswold (Feb 27, 2008)

I agree that the coach needs to find out the official policy.

My dh is a middle school coach for a public school. He never leaves until the last child is picked up - it's a huge liability even though there is no official policy on this. Is it a pain? Yes. So, I understand how a volunteer coach for LL would be very frustrated.

As far as calling the police, I think this will do nothing. I used to be a public school social worker and some of our students were severely mentally handicapped. It was school policy that these particular students were not to be let off the bus unless there was a parent/guardian/etc at the home. When the adult was not home, the children were returned to school. I ended up calling the police more than once for children who were still waiting with ME at the school at 6 or 7 o'clock (school was done about 2:30). Only once did the police show up for me.

Good luck!


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 

I think calling the child abandoned and calling the police is a huge over reaction.

How far from the field does the kid live? Could he just walk home. Couldn't your brother just call the parents up and talk to them. Say the current situation isn't working and talk about alternatives, such as having him travel to and from games with a teammate.

Why is it the unpaid volunteer's responsibility to do this?

Parents, parent your kids.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

interesting perspectives.

to clarify - this isn't just a practice, they have a small practice before the game (basically just throwing the ball around to each other) and then the game. so while there is a specific start time, there isn't a specific end time.

i agree that it's the poor kid who's going to suffer, but my brother has his own life and this family has messed up his schedule 3 times now (turns out it was another hour yesterday). this family and only this family out of 16 kids that play.

not every parent stays every minute each time, he doesn't have a problem with that, he has a problem with them leaving him responsible for their kid for such an extended period of time after each game. many parents leave for a while and get back towards the end of the game. this kid has shown up for 3 games and it's happened after each one.

after the first time it happened, he called the lead guy for the league (not sure of the exact title) and was told he had to stay and he was legally responsible for the kid until the parents came back. but, i don't think he got that far into the specifics because i think he assumed it was a one time / fluke thing.

now that it's a pattern, he's got a message in to the head guy to get more information and some advice on how to handle this.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristyDi* 
You'd have to clear it with the league, but a policy that charges the parents a few dollars per min. they are late after 10 or 15min after the end of practice was very effective when I coached. ie Practice ends at 2pm you have till 2:10 to pick your kid up after that it's a dollar a min for child care. The money can be put towards team snacks or into the league fund or something.

In fact it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a league wide policy on pick up and late parents. That's something I think your brother should bring to the league's attention.

I don't have a problem with parents dropping kids off for games or practice.

If they don't care to show up in time, are they going to pay?


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Why is it the unpaid volunteer's responsibility to do this?

Parents, parent your kids.

The unpaid volunteer is the one uncomfortable with the situation. The parents have not told him he needs to stay there with the kid, the guy from the league did. I suppose it's really the guy from the leagues responsibility to call the parents in question, but it seems simpler for him to just call them directly instead of having it go through the league.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Not having a set end time makes it harder. How wide of a spread are we talking? Like the game could end by 12 or by 1, so telling people to get back by 12:15 is reasonable? Or the game could end between 10 and 2 so there's no good way to time getting back and most parents just come back around 10 and see how the game's progressed?

If it's the latter, a really long window, then make it a requirement to leave contact information. It's a good idea for everyone.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Not having a set end time makes it harder. How wide of a spread are we talking? Like the game could end by 12 or by 1, so telling people to get back by 12:15 is reasonable? Or the game could end between 10 and 2 so there's no good way to time getting back and most parents just come back around 10 and see how the game's progressed?

If it's the latter, a really long window, then make it a requirement to leave contact information. It's a good idea for everyone.

it's generally two hours total. so if the game starts at 10 they are done by noon 99% of the time. if the game is a tie, it might go another half hour but they've never gone longer than that. there are rare times where the games end faster and they'd be done by 11:30, but it's much much more likely to end between 11:45 and noon.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
The unpaid volunteer is the one uncomfortable with the situation. *The parents have not told him he needs to stay there with the kid*, the guy from the league did. I suppose it's really the guy from the leagues responsibility to call the parents in question, but it seems simpler for him to just call them directly instead of having it go through the league.

just my opinion - these are the kinds of parents who have no problem dropping him off, but would raise holy hell if they got back and the kid was by himself.


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## kay4 (Nov 30, 2004)

When my son played football one of the rules was that a parent had to stay for practice/game or have someone else responsible for the child there.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Has he talked to the parents about it causing an inconvenience for him?


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

I work for a Parks and Rec department and this very issue is why we lose a lot of our great coaches. Kudos to your brother for stepping up and coaching, he would probably rather be watching his son play and not dealing with the headaches that come with a volunteer job.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

I've been in this position as a coach and teacher... and it SUCKS. It sucks because, other than calling the cops (which is a HUGE deal, and rightfully seems like overkill), there is absolutely. jack. freakin'. squat you can do about it.

I mean... whatever, if parents don't want to or can't stay for games... it sucks for the kids, but I know as a coach I always paid a little extra attention to those kids to make up for it. Not the same, but it's something. But to then just not show up on time... ugh.

One thing I found helpful was to ask the parents what they'd like me to do with their kids when they were late picking them up. Saying something like, "This seems to be an ongoing problem. I really have things to after game time. What do you WANT me to do with your kid when you're unable to pick him up on time?" It puts responsibility back where it belongs... with the parent.

Few will say, "Just wait around, I'm incapable of ever being on time so the world should wait for me. What I have to do is much more important than your plans," even though that seems to be how some people see issues of punctuality. Most mutter something about losing track of time or traffic or long lines at the car wash and then improve, at least for a few weeks.


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## feminist~mama (Mar 6, 2002)

Do the parents not have cell phones? I'd call near the end of the game to let them know it's nearly over, then start calling every few minutes once the game was in fact over.


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

I would not call the police. I'd send notes home reminding all prents that warm-ups start 30 minutes (or whatever) before game time and rarely last more than 2 hrs nd that it is the parent's responsibility to pick their child up on time. See if that helps. If it does not I would walk out to the car and before the kid gets in tell the parent we need to come up with some plan for what to do if they are not there in 15 minutes. After that i would take it to the league president. There are player agents and other administrtors (all volunteer) who can step in and help our brother.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I just don't see a problem. The parents drop him off, he has a game/practice and then they pick him up. They have not asked anyone to watch him, and he is not at the field completely alone or for very long.

I think calling the cops is totally overkill. And I don't see it as illegal. If someone wanted to take the responsibility of standing by the kid, I don't see how they could be angry at the parents for that. And I totally don't get where they have the right to have the kid disobey his father by not letting him go to the father when he drove up, but made the father get out of the care to walk over and get him. Totally not right, IMO.

I think the most angry I get at other people is when they try to push their child rearing choices on me or try and get my children to do what _they_ think is _right_. "Right" is a relative term. And how I raise my children will not be the same as you. I have had too many people try and do this same thing with my children (my Mom especially). So, I have a really short fuse when someone does this with other people's children. I guess you can say it is my pet peave. <OK, off my soapbox now.>

I say, let it go.

But that is just my opinion. I don't guess it will be over popular on this thread though.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
I just don't see a problem. The parents drop him off, he has a game/practice and then they pick him up. They have not asked anyone to watch him, and he is not at the field completely alone or for very long.

I think calling the cops is totally overkill. And I don't see it as illegal. If someone wanted to take the responsibility of standing by the kid, I don't see how they could be angry at the parents for that. And I totally don't get where they have the right to have the kid disobey his father by not letting him go to the father when he drove up, but made the father get out of the care to walk over and get him. Totally not right, IMO.

I think the most angry I get at other people is when they try to push their child rearing choices on me or try and get my children to do what _they_ think is _right_. "Right" is a relative term. And how I raise my children will not be the same as you. I have had too many people try and do this same thing with my children (my Mom especially). So, I have a really short fuse when someone does this with other people's children. I guess you can say it is my pet peave. <OK, off my soapbox now.>

I say, let it go.

But that is just my opinion. I don't guess it will be over popular on this thread though.

I think that I agree with you on the parents not coming to the games aspect. The kids are supervised, the parents have presumably signed safety waivers and whatnot... whether parents choose to be there or not is up to them.

The part that I think is disrespectful of the parent is arriving late for pick-up. The coach (and most coaches are unpaid parent volunteers at the youth levels) had to sit around and wait with the kid because the parents couldn't get their cans back to the field in time to pick the kid up. That's not a "how I raise my kid" issue, it's a "hey, I probably shouldn't make this person who volunteers to help give my kid a good time playing a sport sit around because I can't be bothered to be on time" issue.


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## HavingAGirl89 (May 10, 2010)

3 Strikes your out is my policy, but in case maybe 2 strikes! This is child negligence and the authoritys need to be notified.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

True, it is disrespectful for the parents to be 45 minutes late, but I thought it only happened once. That could fall under an accident.

Seems the real problem in the OP is the child being left there for the game/practice and the parent not staying to watch.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
True, it is disrespectful for the parents to be 45 minutes late, but I thought it only happened once. That could fall under an accident.

Seems the real problem in the OP is the child being left there for the game/practice and the parent not staying to watch.

See, and I got the impression that the child being left there was only a problem because of the lateness in picking him back up.

Eh, either way. Rude to be late, OK to be not there (as long as it's not against the rules of the league). I think we can agree on that







.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Funny how we all can read the same thing and get something totally different out of it. Show how our experiences color our views.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

The OP responded and said that her brothers issue with it was the CONTINUED lateness. The most recent was another hour after the OP had left the ballpark. This is something that makes me crazy with DH and his coaching, and he coaches high school girls! There is very little respect for his time, and that they are cutting into our time by not picking up their kids ontime. Even tho DH is paid for his coaching... trust me it doesn't even BEGIN to cover the time he invests!

It is a policy that the coach cannot leave until everyone is picked up. OP's brother is not CHOOSING to stay and wait, he's required to. One time late is an accident, two times is an oops... but at least three, that just a complete inability to manage your time and they're punishing the coach and their child. Can you imagine how the child feels 5-10 minutes after all the other kids are gone? STILL waiting for mom and dad? STILL waiting 30 or 40 minutes after that? How is that even close to being responsible?

At least w/ DH's high schoolers they have cell phones to call their parents and say hey! what's taking so long!

To the OP I think your brother needs to ask the head guy what exactly is the policy, and if they don't have one he needs to offer to draft one to get approved ASAP as this is not fair to anyone involved... except perhaps the parents because they're able to come and go as they please and know their child is being watched!


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
It may not be illegal for them to leave their kid byhimself... but I don't think its legal for your bro to just leave him by himself.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
I agree with the earlier poster who said it's perfectly legal for the parents to leave the child at the park for 45 minutes, but not for the coach to do so.


why? i really don't understand why it is ok for parents, the people who are supposed to be responsible for THEIR child to leave them alone for that length of time yet it is illegal for the coach who is not responsible for the child.
not that i'm saying your brother should just leave him but if parents are supposed to stay with their children then they should and being 45 mins late is not acceptable imo.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Because the laws with kids are just, well, a bit strange. I, as a parent, can choose to leave my kids at home for 15 or 30 minutes while I run to the store. But, I as a baby sitter, can not. Why? Because if something happens in that 15-30 minutes when they were *my* responsibility *I* can be sued by the parent - I was supposed to be watching them, and then I chose not to. Thats not OK. Its one of those things - you as parent can be alone with your kids. I as a volunteer can not.

Actually, its probably illegal/against the rules for her brother to be alone with this child - thats one-on-one time spent, alone with a kid. Thats a perfect set up for abuse - or for accusations of abuse - because it becomes kids word against adults, and when your talking abuse, who do you believe??


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 

Actually, its probably illegal/against the rules for her brother to be alone with this child - thats one-on-one time spent, alone with a kid. Thats a perfect set up for abuse - or for accusations of abuse - because it becomes kids word against adults, and when your talking abuse, who do you believe??

I hadn't even thought about this angle, but it's an unfortunate consideration.









I would require the parents to give a contact number to reach them (cel, work, or other location) and start calling them when the game is almost over, and every 5-10 min until they picked the child up. Send a form letter home with the time of practice/game as a reminder, and a space to fill in contact numbers for late pickups. Maybe throw in there that since the coach has to stay after until all children are picked up and is not allowed to leave kids alone, and that the coach has his own family to attend to, prompt pickups are expected and appreciated.

Is there any chance the parents don't know that the coach can't leave? Maybe they just figure the coach will leave and they're OK with their kid at the park by himself. I'd make sure it was crystal clear to the parents that the coach CAN'T legally leave the kid, and say you expect they will be on time.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 

why? i really don't understand why it is ok for parents, the people who are supposed to be responsible for THEIR child to leave them alone for that length of time yet it is illegal for the coach who is not responsible for the child.


what she said above.

think of it this way - it's legal for you to leave your child in your car for a few moments while you run groceries into your house or if you leave your sleeping toddler in the car when you stop at a tag sale. however, it's illegal for a school bus driver to leave your child for even one second by themselves on the bus. same idea that you can leave your child home alone for 15 minutes to run to the store, but a daycare provider would be shut down if they left your child alone. it's a quirk of the law, not that it always makes sense.

i don't know if the dad's cell phone number is available or has been provided to the league on a consent form or whatever. i assume this is something that my brother and the lead administrator can discuss when they talk.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

I didn't have time to read everything posted folowing the op in depth BUT~ this happened here last week and the police WERE called, but it's a little different and I'll exoplain why.
DH coaches dd and ds teams for softball and baseball. 1 boy, he's 7, came to the game and it was clear to dh he was alone. Dh asked where his grownup was and he told dh she was going to a friends house in T. (like 50 mins each way). Dh made his other coaches aware the boy was alone and to keep an eye out. Later the team was coming off the field for lineup to bat and dh was lining up the boys and asst coach says 'where's B."
Nowhere to be seen.
Our fields border a river, scrambling ensues, dh ran all over looking for B, as did the other coaches/parents. Our fields are busy! Crawling with people you klnow and people you don't. Main streets, rivere, traffic.
Dh checked the other fields, the snack shacks, ice cream parlor and arcade blocks away. No B.
By the time he arrived back to the field the mother and police had been called (1 of the parents arriving for a later game is a cop too). After a couple of attempts mom was reached and said 'we had an emergency and I ssent S. (the 4 yr old brother) to get him.
So basically S came on the field at switch time and they walked off together at switch time.
Mom told noone, never got out of her car that she parked across the rd to pickup, nothing.
What it comes down to is this. Our LL has rules that a child/player under 12 must be accompanied by an adult, whether a parent or other adult supervision. My dh is an amazing coach but is not your child's babysitter. As far as I'm concerned it is not about the parent arttending the game but taking responsibility and supervised responsibility for your child. It is also illegal in my state to have a child unsupervised in a PUBLIC place under the age of 12. There is no law as to when they can be left at home but a public location is 12yo.
You can be sure phonecalls and emails went out immediately AGAIN through LL participant reminding them of the supervision rule.

As for the waivers a pp mentioned~ a typical town/rec league waiver is not a daycare/ babysitting waiver. It is a waiver for risk of injury related to the sport being played and for utilizing league/town equipment. Period.

I will be back when I have more time and can read responses more thoroughly as I'm running late and shouldn't be playing on mdc and my rush is prob. clear by my typos







.

Plus I have a ton to say on this matter







.

ETA the mom had left him and been spoken to before this incident
.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I think there have been a few good suggestions on dealing directly with the parent who consistently shows up late for pick-up. I'd try some of them before calling the police. That seems like a last resort solution.

I find the belief that a parent MUST stay for the entire game to be interesting. Some leagues have considered encouraging parents to stay away from games or even closing games to spectators. It's a response to the overbearing, over-involved, hyper-competitive behaviour of many parents at their children's sporting events.

I know a few coaches who would be very happy if parents just dropped their kids off and drove away, and let the kids have their fun.


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## calpurnia (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?











I think an 8 year old, depending on the individual 8 year old, can spend time alone in public spaces, yes.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
I know a few coaches who would be very happy if parents just dropped their kids off and drove away, and let the kids have their fun.

Agreed. I have dropped my kids at a gymnastics class at 3-4 yrs old and then left the building for 40 min to run an errand (they had my cell # in case there was a problem), and at karate at 6 and wandered around the area while he was in class...but I'm back at the location *10 minutes before the end time* to pick them up. IMO, that's the problem - not dropping the kid off, which I agree with you can be a good thing - the problem is not picking the kid up on time.

At a soccer rec league the kids are in now, I am constantly amazed at how up their butts some people are with their kids - jeepers, let them just PLAY without you being on the flipping field with them. It's a rec league, not the World Cup.


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## Raine822 (Dec 11, 2008)

_think of it this way - it's legal for you to leave your child in your car for a few moments while you run groceries into your house or if you leave your sleeping toddler in the car when you stop at a tag sale. however, it's illegal for a school bus driver to leave your child for even one second by themselves on the bus. same idea that you can leave your child home alone for 15 minutes to run to the store, but a daycare provider would be shut down if they left your child alone. it's a quirk of the law, not that it always makes sense._

This is true if nothing happens but parents are often being held criminally responsible if something does go wrong. I remember a time when a little girl got outside and almost got hurt while her parents were sleeping and they were arrested. So, if the "responsible adult" is not the parent the issue becomes more of a problem.

Hopefully the league will step in here. There needs to be more support for the volunteers if we want people to continue to do so. So sad







that parents would do this.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

These days there are very few. Our society is becoming very fear centered and concerns over liability are huge.

However, 30 years ago no one would have thought twice about it. Back then parents just said to their kids "go out and play." The kids went out and played. If they wanted to go to the park, they opened the door yelled in to mom (this was also a time when mom was typically still a SAHM just b/c that's what is done) "Can I go to the park?" and mom usually yelled back "be home by dinner time/before it gets dark/etc."


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

In some ways, I think it depends on the relation of the public space to the home.

By 6, I was going to the park by myself or taking my younger sibs. The park was two blocks from the house. 7ish, I was taking myself/younger sibs to the library which was 4 blocks away from the house. Around 7/8 I was also walking or biking myself/younger sibs to-and-from school, which was 1 mile away from the house.

My mom would drop me off at gymnastics/dance practice around those ages, and might also not make it back "on time" to pick me up. But the coach's responsibilities, at least then (1980s) ended when they released us to the locker room. I'd change, pack up my bag, and head over to the playground to play and wait for my mom.

But, if necessary, I could have even made it back home from the gym safely by walking (it was about 2 miles to my house, 1 mile down the road from my school) on neighborhood streets. That you don't really have to the same degree in suburbs. We have a park the kid will be able to walk to when he's mature enough to go there on his own, and he can play around our subdivision, but we don't have a library, a store, or a school in walking distance. Supposedly, there's the intent to incorporate a walking path over the expressway when they rebuild the road bridge, which would allow him to walk to-and-from his elementary school safely, if the thing is built by the time he's in elementary (doubting that; the bridge is currently scheduled to be rebuilt in 2015, already having been delayed from 2009).

I hope that by the time he's 8, he's proven himself mature enough to walk down to our subdivision park and play on his own. Most kids in our subdivision seem to earn that privilege about age 7/8.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

It depends on the situation. If we had a park within walking distance of my house where no major roads would have to be crossed, then my 7 year old would be allowed to go to the park by himself or with friends (depending on the type of park: playground by himself, wooded area or area with water only with friends). If I took my kids to the park, I'd be comfortable with leaving my 7 year old while I took his little brother to the bathroom or to get something from the car. I wouldn't be comfortable with leaving my child at a park for any extended period where he couldn't just walk home, however. Not at 7 or 8. Maybe at 10 or 11 if he had a cell phone so he could call for a ride.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Yeah. I think 8 is old enough to go around the neighbourhood alone, or at a park or playground if they have access to help if needed - so near the school or a library that would be open, or close enough to home to walk.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

I think it depends on the area. Where I grew up, we had a softball/baseball complex. That's all that was there. It's a small town, so everyone pretty much knew everyone else. No one thought anything of leaving children for practice. The only concern was them getting injured and you not being there. Where we live now I'd be less likely to leave DC for an entire practice because there are more people, most of whom I don't know, and there's a good bit of parking lot traffic. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all type of answer to whether it's okay to leave children for practice.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I didn't see anyone who thought that the parent not staying for the game was a real problem. Maybe a couple said it was too bad, but it seems to me we all agree that it's not a _problem_. The sole problem is the consistent late pickup and the effect it has on the coach.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

Yes, there are many who believe this.
I am not one of them.
That said ~my oldest is 9, very responsible, smart, listens to her instinct, recognizes safe situations versus 'questionable', she has shown all of these attributes to me and dh. However; I would never her leave her somewhere alone like the rec parks etc, not now, probably not even for a few more years. I just wouldn't.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I didn't see anyone who thought that the parent not staying for the game was a real problem. Maybe a couple said it was too bad, but it seems to me we all agree that it's not a _problem_. The sole problem is the consistent late pickup and the effect it has on the coach.

this... and that no one was assigned responsibility is the biggie for me.
I have brought my friend's dc to games when she was home with sick siblings, but I was *the adult responsible for them for the length of time they were in my care at the game*. There was noone assigned care for this child. Correct?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

I think it's fine, if the park is within walking distance of home and the child knows the way. If it's far enough that the child needs to be dropped by car, then, no. Of course, in the US, "far enough to need to be dropped by car" could be 2 blocks in some peoples' opinion.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I think it's fine, if the park is within walking distance of home and the child knows the way. If it's far enough that the child needs to be dropped by car, then, no. Of course, in the US, "far enough to need to be dropped by car" could be 2 blocks in some peoples' opinion.









very true for many. walking distance is next door








we had a neighbor that would drop her son at the school bus and pick him up. 2 HOUSES DOWN FROM THE STOP!! No lie!!!








it wasn't the being with him that was funny but the fact that she didn't just walk with him the 100 yards instead warmed up her car and everything








sorry didn't mean to sidetrack the thread


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
Actually, its probably illegal/against the rules for her brother to be alone with this child - thats one-on-one time spent, alone with a kid. Thats a perfect set up for abuse - or for accusations of abuse - because it becomes kids word against adults, and when your talking abuse, who do you believe??

I'm assuming that the brother has a child on the team, so he would have his own child and the abandoned child with him. Not much protection, but some.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Just in case no one said this, I really hope that no matter what OP does or her brother does, I hope SOMEONE has said some reassuring, positive things to this poor child!!!

Imagine how awful it must feel to him to watch all the other kids picked up and his loser dad drives up late and yells and doesn't bother to get out of the car, much less watch him play. And now it's an issue and the boy knows it's an issue.

With a dad like that, the dad is probably making the boy feel bad, making him feel responsible for the ruckus.

So I hope your brother or someone has said something to this boy like "We really hope this can work out so you can be on the team, you're a great kid and we'd be lucky to have you. It would be great for you to be able to participate. I really hope your dad figures it out, it's really something that your parents have to work out."

This boy deserves to know that a) this situation isn't his fault, b) he's valued (no matter what kind of player he is), and c) that he'd be missed if he didn't come anymore.

Hope someone tells him something good to counteract the negative it sounds like he has in his life!


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nannymom* 
I've read the entire thread and I don't know what the solution is for the coach. I'm just curious-are there really people out there who think 8 is an acceptiable age to be left alone in a public space like a park?

Well, yes. My oldest is 5 and he runs around the neighborhood unsupervised everyday. He has boundaries - he can't go off our street, not in anyone's home, etc.) but he is often out of sight. Very few people have fences here and they are very friendly about neighbor kids. My 3 yo also goes out and plays around the neighborhood. I only let him go when his brother is with him because I know he follows rules better when his big bro is watching. I'm sure by 8 I will let them walk to the park alone. I certainly did when I was that age and, contrary to popular belief, it is not more dangerous now.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *berry987* 
Well, yes. My oldest is 5 and he runs around the neighborhood unsupervised everyday. He has boundaries - he can't go off our street, not in anyone's home, etc.) but he is often out of sight. Very few people have fences here and they are very friendly about neighbor kids. My 3 yo also goes out and plays around the neighborhood. I only let him go when his brother is with him because I know he follows rules better when his big bro is watching. I'm sure by 8 I will let them walk to the park alone. I certainly did when I was that age and, contrary to popular belief, it is not more dangerous now.

Aww, I wanna move to your neighborhood! Sounds like how we grew up. We lived at the end of a cul-du-sac, and our backyard neighbors and side neighbors had girls our age, and none of our yards were fenced, so we pretty much had the run of a big three-yard area. When we were younger, if we wanted to cross our backyard neighbor's street, we had to ask specific permission, but as we got older (maybe by the time I was 8-ish?), we could walk to the park (across that street, down a block, up a little path through the woods) as long as we told one parent. Freedom, with rules and responsibility. My best childhood friend lived in the house behind me, we played together nearly every day, and I'm not sure I remember what the inside of her house looked like.

As to the OP, I think that leaving a kid of that age at a supervised athletic event is fine. My parents often had THREE kids playing soccer games at the same time. As the oldest, I'd often get dropped off and left by myself while my parents attended my younger sisters' games... sometimes at the same field facility, and sometimes at the field across town. They'd tell the coach that I'd be sticking around a little late, that I had permission to be by myself and watch the later games or help clean up if it was the last game, and then they'd high-tail it out of my sisters' games as soon as they were done (like... grab the treat and eat it in the car kind of high-tailing it)

But I can say that having been a coach and a teacher for a good while now... it is a very hard situation to be in when parents are just late with no warning. You have all the responsibility and no real authority. So you sit, eating up time you could be spending with your own family. You ask, "Are you SURE your dad doesn't have a cell phone? Was someone else going to come get you today? Is there someone else I can call?" You see a kid who feels forgotten and dejected... or a kid who is so used to it that they don't even realize that they SHOULDN'T be the only kid left on the field, for an extra half hour, with no explanation, week after week.

I realize that punctuality isn't a priority for everyone, but... things like this bug me to no end.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

If the league doesn't have a protocol to follow for situations like this (where no one comes to pick up a child after practice/game) then they need to write one, ASAP. Any situation involving any type of drop-off activity should have a clearly written protocol for what to do if no one comes to pick a child up by X time after the end of the practice/game, etc. That could involve charging the parent for childcare, calling the police...etc., but the policy needs to be written and all the parents and coaches made aware of it.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

OP, I hope you keep us updated on this, I'm really curious now what's going to happen.


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## Happiestever (May 13, 2007)

He isn't the first kid to be late. Check with the org to see what the rules are. Contacting the police is too much.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
OP, I hope you keep us updated on this, I'm really curious now what's going to happen.

I will try to update once I talk to my brother again, assuming he's been able to get a hold of the guy he needs to talk to. my guess would be that he's calling the guy often









in one way, it is interesting to me that it's happening because he's been a coach for literally dozens of teams over the last 11 or 12 years and he's not had this problem before. he coaches or ass't coaches at least 4 teams a year between all his kids.

he's had invididual incidents i.e. - a mom was in a minor car accident and didn't get back to a game, and a dad got caught up in another of his childrens' games and simply forgot to go back, normal stuff like that. but never a parent who's done it 3 times in a row and for such extended periods of time.

a few more things -

as was mentioned by a PP - the look in the kid's eyes when the game ended and he was scanning the parking lot for his dad was enough to break your heart. i think he's very aware that he's the only one who it's happening to.

my brother is not alone with the kid. it's him, my nephew (and one of the times also one of my nieces) and the kid.


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

Yeah, something needs to be done bc it's not fair to your brother to be responsible for the kid for an extra 45 min to an hr after the game is over.

I also wonder (like a pp mentioned) if the dad even knows that the coach is required to stay w/the kid. Your brother should mention that to him next time he sees him.

I know that every kid is different, as is every neighborhood, but I really don't understand the free roaming idea for kids so young. My children know about trusting their instincts, good and bad touch, etc. but at 4 1/2 and 7 (or even 8, 9, or 10) it is absolutely not their responsibility to keep themselves safe. That's my job.

And while child abduction by a stranger is very rare, children have been victimized in other ways for centuries, and mostly by people they think they can trust. All that aside, there are a number of other things that could happen like injuries or even serious accidents. Obviously this is my opinion and it exists w/in the context of my experience so I am not saying that it's black and white, only that I don't understand.


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

I can't help but wonder what would happen if the child was injured in the game and his parent or guardian wasn't there and wasn't easily contacted. Poor guy, my heart just breaks for him.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

What about talking to this kid's Mom? A phone call directly to the house- at a time that isn't Game/Practice designated? Seems like some mis-communication is going on, and Little League needs to have a policy related to this. Here, in California there is a "Parent Attendance" rule- practice and games included.


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## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

I read the entire thread. Whew!

I also wonder if the Dad is not aware that your brother has a legal obligation to stay with his child. I would try mentioning that first, gently. Like "Hey I am sorry, but I wasn't sure if you knew that I have to stay with your child until you pick up, as per the LL regulations." Then go from there.

Also, from the way you describe it, it sounds like this child is very upset that his parents are not there, and that is sad to me


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

How is the coach supposed to speak to the father? When he tried to get the father to come over to get his kid, the father screamed at the kid to run over to the car. Sounds like potential for violence if the coach tries to go over to the car to talk.

Hence, police, or at least being prepared to call the police.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kay4* 
When my son played football one of the rules was that a parent had to stay for practice/game or have someone else responsible for the child there.

That is the kind of rule that discourages families from participating and encourages unhealthy, sedentary alternatives.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *berry987* 
I'm sure by 8 I will let them walk to the park alone. I certainly did when I was that age and, contrary to popular belief, it is not more dangerous now.

Agreed. We did it before cell phones, amber alert, etc.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
That is the kind of rule that discourages families from participating and encourages unhealthy, sedentary alternatives.

???









What do you mean by this? I don't understand your reasoning.


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
That is the kind of rule that discourages families from participating and encourages unhealthy, sedentary alternatives.

It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

I think your brother is being unreasonable.

It's not his job to stay with the kid. I've been a coach for youth soccer for many many years. It's his job to take care of the kid for a specific time period (in my case, I always said that I would stay for 10 minutes after the end of the game/practice). Then he releases the kid, unless the family makes other arrangements.

I had MANY kids that age walk or bike to games or practices on their own. At the end of the game I waved good-bye to them as they set off. I have no idea if they went home, to the playground or somewhere else. That was between them and their parent.

Your brother has no business trying to get the dad out of his vehicle by interfering with the instructions given to the kid. Your brother has no business implying that the dad is a bad parent for letting the kid do something your brother thinks is dangerous.

Your brother should contact the family and say what his limits are. He should decide how long after a game he's willing to stay and then tell the parents that. Then he needs to leave once it gets to that time.

We're not talking about 4 or 5 year olds here. School aged kids are allowed to walk home from school on their own, they can take the city bus on their own.

*********Please note that I personally would not do what that dad did. Once my children are in sports I will be there as much as I can. But I recognize that other people have different ideas and priorities.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeanine123* 
It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.

Here soccer is really big. For 8 weeks in the spring (from when the snow melts and the grass is dry until when public school lets out) the rec soccer league has 2 games a week. As an example, U8 would play M-W, and then U10 would play T-R, and then U12 would play M-W... See where that's going? If you have a couple kids, it's totally possible that you might have 2 kids each playing their game on the same nights. So, you'd have 2 kids at 2 different fields. How could 1 parent (single parents, parents with a partner who works nights, parents with younger kids at home who need to go to bed...) be at both games?

It has nothing to do with over scheduled or anything like that. I'm sure that some parents are jerks about it and could go to more games. But that's not the case all the time.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeanine123* 
It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.

Um, I have more than 1 child. Their extra-curriculars often conflict. Usually, my dh and I can split up and each attend one event. Not always though, because we are a 1 car family. If we had more than 2 kids, then even this solution won't work.

So any good advice on how to decide which kid actually gets to play, and which one doesn't, because all parents MUST attend every game supporting each child?

And, as I posted earlier, there are overbearing, to the point of being abusive, parents who are ostensibly "supporting their children". They aren't helping their kids at all by showing up to games.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

I'm finding it more than a little funny that people are defending the right to leave the child unsupervised at the park for 45 minutes, when they'd probably flip if he was left in a locked, parked car that long.

It's even in the law of the OP's state.

Connecticut's Child Proection agency's website states:

Quote:

Connecticut law does not specify at what age a child may be left home alone. When deciding whether or not to leave a child home alone, a parent should consider the child's age.
But then the CT DMV says:

Quote:

Anyone who leaves a child under the age of 12 unattended in a vehicle long enough that it represents a substantial risk to the child's well-being, could be found guilty of a class A misdemeanor.

Should this happen between 8 p.m.-6 a.m., the charge rises to a class C felony.


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm a little confused. I thought it was illegal in most states to leave your child home alone until they reached a certain age (like 9 or 10). Are there states where it's both legal to leave them in a park and illegal to leave them at home? Or do the rules generally match up?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Most states don't have actual age limits on how old a child can be when they are left alone. Some have recommendations, but most are only that - recommendations.

ETA:http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchke...age-limits.htm


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabearsoblessed* 
???









What do you mean by this? I don't understand your reasoning.

I think she means that some parents wouldn't let their kids play if they had to be there at every practice and game, which means the kids would likely do less active things during those times.

For our kids, practice & game attendance is "strongly encouraged" as they really are trying to promote a family atmosphere. That said, of course some children have siblings playing on other fields and so forth that means that cannot always be there.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

During three years of mandatory soccer and basketball at private school, neither of my parents ever came to ONE game. I'd say maybe 1/4 of the parents did.







It never even occurred to me to be disappointed.


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeanine123* 
It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.

It is this kind of expectation that makes us all crazy and over-scheduled.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabearsoblessed* 
???









What do you mean by this? I don't understand your reasoning.


I think she means that hard and fast parent attendance rules make it impossible for some/lots of families to manage.
I for instance can't register my children for recreational activities that require my presence the entire time. First of all, I have four kids all different ages and interests, second I have a home daycare. For me to drag 6 kids+ to a ballfield/tennis court/swimming pool to supervise my child (who's taking a paid for lesson) is something I can't, and don't want to do. So we just stay away from those activities.
Plus, what I really don't understand is why the coaches/or those in charge would want the parents there. Kids act completely different when their parents aren't around - the kids I deal with anyway- and usually for the better.

As for the OP's question, I really don't think the police could do a whole lot unless your brother called saying that he thinks the child may have been abandoned.


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

So what can the coach do in this situation? Just tell the dad that he (coach) won't be hanging around the park after practice indefinitely and let the dad take it from there?


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeanine123* 
It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.

I have to agree that it is the kind of rule that MAKES us so crazy and over-scheduled.

Kid's sports aren't even what they were when I was a kid. When I was in soccer up through 5th grade, we had once-weekly Wednesday practice (at the school, after school, so nobody had to take me anywhere to get to practice) and Saturday games; nowadays, all the leagues kids can participate in around us have at least twice-weekly games and twice-weekly practice. I looked at the Y's schedule and rules for 4-year-old soccer and for 4-year-old t-ball for this year and mainly panicked. I have no idea how people with more than one kid manage even getting both kids to all the practices/games they are required to be at. (My kid, btw, is neither in soccer or t-ball this summer, as a result of me mainly concluding that either was impossible.)


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Yep. One of the reasons we don't do sports. I just could not attened all such functions with all my children. I could not even guarantee to just attend all the games. Too much to commit to. Nothing like sports when I grew up.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

A little OT from something brought up in the thread-

Dude-my kids can't be home alone here in IL until age 14???? I babysat from age 12 on in this state and leave my older (8, 9) kids home to walk around the block with the little ones once in awhile. So that's illegal? Does that make it illegal for them to ride their bikes alone around our neighborhood or go to the park across the street alone? Now I'm confused! That age is pretty ridiculous!!!

As for the parents, when I was a girl scouts leader, this kind of thing happened ALL the time. I would have girls in tears an hour after meeting whose parents decided to shop or finish their show or whatever before showing up. And it was a publically reserved location that we weren't even supposed to be at that late. Some parents just don't care. Poor kids. I don't think I'd call the cops unless there were other signs of abuse, but I'd tell whoever is running the league what's going on for sure.


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## r&mmommy (Oct 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
I think your brother is being unreasonable.

It's not his job to stay with the kid. I've been a coach for youth soccer for many many years. It's his job to take care of the kid for a specific time period (in my case, I always said that I would stay for 10 minutes after the end of the game/practice). Then he releases the kid, unless the family makes other arrangements.

I had MANY kids that age walk or bike to games or practices on their own. At the end of the game I waved good-bye to them as they set off. I have no idea if they went home, to the playground or somewhere else. That was between them and their parent.

Your brother has no business trying to get the dad out of his vehicle by interfering with the instructions given to the kid. Your brother has no business implying that the dad is a bad parent for letting the kid do something your brother thinks is dangerous.

Your brother should contact the family and say what his limits are. He should decide how long after a game he's willing to stay and then tell the parents that. Then he needs to leave once it gets to that time.

We're not talking about 4 or 5 year olds here. School aged kids are allowed to walk home from school on their own, they can take the city bus on their own.

*********Please note that I personally would not do what that dad did. Once my children are in sports I will be there as much as I can. But I recognize that other people have different ideas and priorities.

How do you know this? I am fairly certain the rules are not the same across the country for every organization. And it's not like the child had an arrangement where they were supposed to be walking home/biking. Our LL is sponsered by the town. Coaches must stay until all children have left (they can walk or bike, but it needs to be known that everyone has a way home). I don't care if the parent can't stay to watch all the games or practice, and I don't think that's at issue at all (unless the league policy states their must be a parent/adult present). Was the brother wrong to make the child stay with him while the father beeped? Yes. Because he should have brought the boy to the car immediately to broach the subject, not waited till the father was so angry he became unreasonable.

But we can't assume that every sport league has similar policies. They simply don't.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittywitty* 
A little OT from something brought up in the thread-

Dude-my kids can't be home alone here in IL until age 14???? I babysat from age 12 on in this state and leave my older (8, 9) kids home to walk around the block with the little ones once in awhile. So that's illegal? Does that make it illegal for them to ride their bikes alone around our neighborhood or go to the park across the street alone? Now I'm confused! That age is pretty ridiculous!!!

That's a strict interpretation of the IL law, ignoring the multiple paragraphs of exceptions and references to the criminal neglect code that follow the stated age in the law itself.

I'm in IL and our local police department passes out latchkey and babysitting info flyers that state under the law as the local department interprets it, it's legal for a kid to be latchkey starting at age 8 as long as they pass particular maturity tests (which I believe are based on the criminal neglect statures) and start babysitting at age 12 if they've taken the red cross babysitting classes and pass some other set of maturity guidelines.

Here's a fuller text of the IL law:

"any minor under the age of 14 years whose parent or other person responsible for the minor's welfare leaves the minor without supervision for an unreasonable period of time without regard for the mental or physical health, safety or welfare of that minor."

And you can see the 15 factors used by DCFS in determining what is a "an unreasonable period of time without regard for the mental or physical health, safety or welfare" in the document here: http://www.state.il.us/dcfs/docs/alone.doc


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

For starters, my husband and I are in our second year of coaching Little League. Where we live its pretty standard and assumed that parents will be there for practices and games. The only time I've seen a parent not there was for a boy who lived a block away and rode his bike to the game and parents came as often as they could and older siblings were playing in the next field and were in charge of getting him to or from events. But there was always someone in charge of him. I've never had a parent just up and leave or not show up. We are not allowed to leave the field until all children have been collected (assuming some parents drop off, which ours haven't). I know of one parent who told me there may be some scheduling conflicts because her 2 girls are also playing on another team in the girls league. We'll watch her son when she has to be at the girls' game (twin girls). But the parent discussed it with us and her husband and her will rotate who watches which game as much as they can. They are always there for practices. Its also a parent that I know would help us out with our child if it came down to it as well. If a parent was consistently late, like near an hour late, I don't know what I'd do. Its negligent, IMO. We coaches do get the parent contact info at the beginning of the year and I'd be calling the parent after 10 minutes to ask where they were. If it came down to it I don't think calling the police or other authority is over reacting when its an HOUR. Thats a long time! Most childcare centers would call 15 minutes after closing.

I also work for the Y and I attend many youth sports stuff and parents are always there. I've never seen a parent just drop their child off.

And as far as busy schedules... you deal. I have 3 kids, my husband and I went to school full time all year and had jobs. All 3 kids still had Dr appointments, sporting events and other activities. We coordinate and always stay for the events, unless its school sponsored. For us, its not just about the kids participating in sports or activities its us showing our support.

This summer we are coaching little league and my son plays. This meant that our youngest daughter couldn't play girls little league because we couldn't be there for her and we don't think its responsible to just drop her off, she's 7. On the other hand our oldest will play tennis this summer and can walk to lessons herself 2 blocks away, she is 11. She will also have private violin lessons she can walk to herself. Being 11 is a bit different than 7 or 9 (ages of our others) But you had better believe I will be at every game or event to show my support for her. I also stay for all boyscout meetings and events unless something comes up that I have to attend and then I coordinate with another parent who stays. I know the other parent will sit with my child as well and help him and that goes if another parent can't make it, I would help that child. Our girls both participate in basketball as well, but that is a school sponsored event and is immediately after school so we pick up as soon as its done, we attend every game. Oldest is also in Orchestra, always attend her events. Youngest hasn't decided what her summer sport will be yet but most likely tennis as well or volleyball. We'll be there.

My point is, you can coordinate sports with multiple kids. Sometimes not everyone gets their first choice of sports that season but we accommodate as much as we can. I will not allow my kids to participate in something that I know we can't be there for the events/games. This is a huge part of parenting. Or we call in grandparent backup if possible. I didn't have kids to miss out on these events. I had children so I could PARENT them.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
I agree with the earlier poster who said it's perfectly legal for the parents to leave the child at the park for 45 minutes, but not for the coach to do so.

I wouldn't call the police, *but I would let the parents know that if they or another responsible adult could not be present during games and practices, their child will not be able to participate.* Crafting a policy regarding this behavior that penalizes exactly and only the right person is beyond the scope of a Little League coach. The coach's priority should be to limit liability and ensure kids are safe. So even if it does penalize the child, these parents should not be allowed to simply drop their kid off and leave for hours.

Wow. I am really surprised by this sentiment. I think it is crazy to sit at each and every practice for your child. What if you haev more than one child? Many people where I live drop off and pick up their kids. I agree they should not be late to pick them up, but I think it is unusual to expect the parents to stay the whole time for every practice and game.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
When I was 8 yo, I walked to the park all by myself.

There is an episode of Arthur where Brain's and Binky's mom are late to pick them up after a soccer game. Brain and Binky just hang out with each other while waiting. No coach stays, no one considers calling the police.

*I think calling the child abandoned and calling the police is a huge over reaction.*

How far from the field does the kid live? Could he just walk home. Couldn't your brother just call the parents up and talk to them. Say the current situation isn't working and talk about alternatives, such as having him travel to and from games with a teammate.


I agree.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Cascadian said:


> Why is it the unpaid volunteer's responsibility to do this?
> 
> *Parents, parent your kids.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> And others - allow parents to parent their kids as they see fit


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

I think at the very least, parents should ask the coach what they prefer and work out a compromise if they dissagree. Some coaches simply are not equipped to soley handled 14+ kids by themselves. Parent co-ops where parents work together to meet the needs of the kids can go a long way. We give all our parents the names and numbers of the others so they can work together if scheduling conflicts occur. Many coaches are talked into helping with the guilt that the team will be closed if they didn't step up and help. If I'm putting in all my extra time to work with your child, I'm expecting that you at least put in some effort. If parents don't help out, the coach may decide its not worth it and decide to stop, then all kids are affected. If its like here, you don't have coaches lining up begging to help. Its the organizers bascially twisting arms to get parents to help coach. Show some respect and help, coaching is HARD.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blizzard_babe* 
I think that I agree with you on the parents not coming to the games aspect. The kids are supervised, the parents have presumably signed safety waivers and whatnot... whether parents choose to be there or not is up to them.

*The part that I think is disrespectful of the parent is arriving late for pick-up*. The coach (and most coaches are unpaid parent volunteers at the youth levels) had to sit around and wait with the kid because the parents couldn't get their cans back to the field in time to pick the kid up. That's not a "how I raise my kid" issue, it's a "hey, I probably shouldn't make this person who volunteers to help give my kid a good time playing a sport sit around because I can't be bothered to be on time" issue.


The parents never asked the coach to stay. Maybe there is a prk near the field. There is in out community. And kids hang out there and play sometimes after ball games unsupervised. no big deal.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Find out the league policy on this. Have their office contact the parent. I could never imagine not being at my kids practice or games. And yes I have a 2 year old that I tote to my 6 year olds practices and games. It's just the way it is. One day her older brother will go along to her stuff too. And I'll have to make choices on who can sign up for what based on times and conflicts with the sibling. But oh well.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy7-08* 
The OP responded and said that her brothers issue with it was the CONTINUED lateness. The most recent was another hour after the OP had left the ballpark. This is something that makes me crazy with DH and his coaching, and *he coaches high school girls*! There is very little respect for his time, and that they are cutting into our time by not picking up their kids ontime. Even tho DH is paid for his coaching... trust me it doesn't even BEGIN to cover the time he invests!

*It is a policy that the coach cannot leave until everyone is picked up.* OP's brother is not CHOOSING to stay and wait, he's required to. One time late is an accident, two times is an oops... but at least three, that just a complete inability to manage your time and they're punishing the coach and their child. Can you imagine how the child feels 5-10 minutes after all the other kids are gone? STILL waiting for mom and dad? STILL waiting 30 or 40 minutes after that? How is that even close to being responsible?

At least w/ DH's high schoolers they have cell phones to call their parents and say hey! what's taking so long!

To the OP I think your brother needs to ask the head guy what exactly is the policy, and if they don't have one he needs to offer to draft one to get approved ASAP as this is not fair to anyone involved... except perhaps the parents because they're able to come and go as they please and know their child is being watched!

So high school girls can't be lift without an adult? That seriuosly blows my mind. I mean, I haev high school girls babysit for me, and they have taken my kdis to the parkk, as a matter of fact. This is so bizarre to me. I am not trying to be snotty or sarcastic. I just can't wrap my mind around a situation where a 14 year old girl has to be under adult supervision at all times. What if she is walking home?


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

vbactivist said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cascadian*
> ...


----------



## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
The parents never asked the coach to stay. Maybe there is a prk near the field. There is in out community. And kids hang out there and play sometimes after ball games unsupervised. no big deal.

The coaches are REQUIRED to stay. Most leagues specifically state that you are not allowed to leave until the children have been picked up. Even if a parent says to leave a child alone, we're not allowed to. Its a liability thing.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabearsoblessed* 
this... and that no one was assigned responsibility is the biggie for me.
I have brought my friend's dc to games when she was home with sick siblings, but I was *the adult responsible for them for the length of time they were in my care at the game*. There was noone assigned care for this child. Correct?

And I would say my 8 year old doesn't need anyone to be assinged care for my child. HE's 8. HE can play at the park by himself. He is with his team for practice, and then he may be on his own for a hort whiile. No big deal. I think the op's brother is over reacting. If he doesn't want to stay, he shouldn't.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
That is the kind of rule that discourages families from participating and encourages unhealthy, sedentary alternatives.


agreed. my sister is a single mom. She can work and be able to afford to have her kdis participate, or miss work and sit at a non-existent sport because she can't afford it. She uses her breaks to get my niece there and back


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
I will not allow my kids to participate in something that I know we can't be there for the events/games. This is a huge part of parenting. Or we call in grandparent backup if possible. I didn't have kids to miss out on these events. I had children so I could PARENT them.

I disagree. Sometimes "parenting" involves letting your kids do some things on their own, find their own way, and get satisfaction from things not because a parent is cheering them on, but because they did it themselves.

Of course, this has gone way off topic - I agree that the coach needs to speak to these parents because they aren't on time to pick him up and the coach is left waiting (if in fact he is required by law to stay). That is another issue entirely.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeanine123* 
It should be the kind of rule that makes people stop and take a good, hard look at the crazy, over-scheduled lifestyle they're leading that prevents them from supporting their children with their presence at sporting and other events. Being at every practice is overboard though IMO (assuming the practices are separate from the games, not right before the game as is the case in the OP's scenario). But really, parents should be at the games supporting their children.

If you haev more than one kids in just ONE sport each, there are definitely going to be conflicts. Also what about working parents? I think it gives kdis a weird sense of entitlement for the parents to be at EVERY game. How about playing because you enjoy it, and knwoing your parents support you by the fact they've signed you up?


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
I'm finding it more than a little funny that people are defending the right to leave the child unsupervised at the park for 45 minutes, when they'd probably flip if he was left in a locked, parked car that long.

It's even in the law of the OP's state.

Connecticut's Child Proection agency's website states:

But then the CT DMV says:

I think that's because a kid isn't going to die from heat stroke int he fresh air.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276* 
During three years of mandatory soccer and basketball at private school, neither of my parents ever came to ONE game. I'd say maybe 1/4 of the parents did.







It never even occurred to me to be disappointed.









and you seem plenty well-adjusted.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
So high school girls can't be lift without an adult? That seriuosly blows my mind. I mean, I haev high school girls babysit for me, and they have taken my kdis to the parkk, as a matter of fact. This is so bizarre to me. I am not trying to be snotty or sarcastic. I just can't wrap my mind around a situation where a 14 year old girl has to be under adult supervision at all times. What if she is walking home?

Nope, they can't! In DH's case some bad seeds goofing off after practice ruined it for everyone. Not even on his team, but it is school policy that he has to stay on site until they've either connected w/ a parent or left the campus. Obviously those over 16 are allowed to drive themselves, but if they're w/o transportation onsite, he has to stay till their parents or ride shows up. The issue w/ his high schoolers is most likely the same as that of the little league in this case. The HS is liable for all students while on their property, much the same as the little league organization can probably be held liable if something happens through negligence, thus the requirement to be present until all students are picked up. As the coach he is an extension of the organization, present to be sure nothing happens.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
The coaches are REQUIRED to stay. Most leagues specifically state that you are not allowed to leave until the children have been picked up. Even if a parent says to leave a child alone, we're not allowed to. Its a liability thing.

that's certainly not the case where I live, and I don't think it's clear if that's the case where the op's brother lives.

Here 8 years olds often get themselves to and from games and pratices. would your league force someone to pick him up even if he was planning to walk a block home or whatever? Would you prevent an 8 year old from leaving the field at the end of the game to go home?


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
For starters, my husband and I are in our second year of coaching Little League. Where we live its pretty standard and assumed that parents will be there for practices and games. The only time I've seen a parent not there was for a boy who lived a block away and rode his bike to the game and parents came as often as they could and older siblings were playing in the next field and were in charge of getting him to or from events. But there was always someone in charge of him. I've never had a parent just up and leave or not show up. We are not allowed to leave the field until all children have been collected (assuming some parents drop off, which ours haven't). I know of one parent who told me there may be some scheduling conflicts because her 2 girls are also playing on another team in the girls league. We'll watch her son when she has to be at the girls' game (twin girls). But the parent discussed it with us and her husband and her will rotate who watches which game as much as they can. They are always there for practices. Its also a parent that I know would help us out with our child if it came down to it as well. If a parent was consistently late, like near an hour late, I don't know what I'd do. Its negligent, IMO. We coaches do get the parent contact info at the beginning of the year and I'd be calling the parent after 10 minutes to ask where they were. If it came down to it I don't think calling the police or other authority is over reacting when its an HOUR. Thats a long time! Most childcare centers would call 15 minutes after closing.

I also work for the Y and I attend many youth sports stuff and parents are always there. I've never seen a parent just drop their child off.

And as far as busy schedules... you deal. I have 3 kids, my husband and I went to school full time all year and had jobs. All 3 kids still had Dr appointments, sporting events and other activities. We coordinate and always stay for the events, unless its school sponsored. For us, its not just about the kids participating in sports or activities its us showing our support.

This summer we are coaching little league and my son plays. This meant that our youngest daughter couldn't play girls little league because we couldn't be there for her and we don't think its responsible to just drop her off, she's 7. On the other hand our oldest will play tennis this summer and can walk to lessons herself 2 blocks away, she is 11. She will also have private violin lessons she can walk to herself. Being 11 is a bit different than 7 or 9 (ages of our others) But you had better believe I will be at every game or event to show my support for her. I also stay for all boyscout meetings and events unless something comes up that I have to attend and then I coordinate with another parent who stays. I know the other parent will sit with my child as well and help him and that goes if another parent can't make it, I would help that child. Our girls both participate in basketball as well, but that is a school sponsored event and is immediately after school so we pick up as soon as its done, we attend every game. Oldest is also in Orchestra, always attend her events. Youngest hasn't decided what her summer sport will be yet but most likely tennis as well or volleyball. We'll be there.

My point is, you can coordinate sports with multiple kids. Sometimes not everyone gets their first choice of sports that season but we accommodate as much as we can. _*I will not allow my kids to participate in something that I know we can't be there for the events/games. This is a huge part of parenting. Or we call in grandparent backup if possible. I didn't have kids to miss out on these events. I had children so I could PARENT them*_.

um I homeschool my kids and have been sahming with them from birth. I'm pretty sure I AM parenting them, even thought I don't go to every single game. I actually am with my kids mostly 24/7 - so when an ooportunity comes for the to do somethign productive/fun/healthy without me there (like baseball) I take advantage of that. Like I said, I think it gives kids a weird sense of entitlement to have "fans" at every. single. game.

I'm curious, Kristine - do you homeshcool? Do you think people that send their kids to school and don't observe every single achievement during the school day are not parenting their kids?


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy7-08* 
Nope, they can't! In DH's case some bad seeds goofing off after practice ruined it for everyone. Not even on his team, but it is school policy that he has to stay on site until they've either connected w/ a parent or left the campus. Obviously those over 16 are allowed to drive themselves, but if they're w/o transportation onsite, he has to stay till their parents or ride shows up. The issue w/ his high schoolers is most likely the same as that of the little league in this case. The HS is liable for all students while on their property, much the same as the little league organization can probably be held liable if something happens through negligence, thus the requirement to be present until all students are picked up. As the coach he is an extension of the organization, present to be sure nothing happens.


I would have a serious problem with a school or any organization not allowing my 14 year old to walk herself home. I am surprised more people don't have a problem with that in your husband's case. I can understand the coach expecting the kdis to be off school property before he can leave, but HOW they get off school property is nobody's business, IMO.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I think its clear that if the student is supposed to be walking to/from pratice/games thats one thing. If their supposed to be picked up (cause' you know, they live on the other side of town, or out of town, or whatever) and they are *NOT* then they *CAN NOT* just be left to fend for themselves for the next 5 or 10 or 30 or 90 minutes till someone shows up. Kids can walk to and from school, yes. They can't just hang out at school for an hour cause' dad didn't feel like getting his ass off the couch before law & order was over to go pick them up, when he's supposed to do so.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I would have a serious problem with a school or any organization not allowing my 14 year old to walk herself home. I am surprised more people don't have a problem with that in your husband's case. I can understand the coach expecting the kdis to be off school property before he can leave, but HOW they get off school property is nobody's business, IMO.

My high school was this way if your parents were picking you up from a school event. It had to be your parents, and they had to get you. Students who walked were a different story, but...in my children's soon-to-be school district, you are not allowed to walk and/or allow your child to walk to school. We live 200 yards away, and we're walking next year. We'll deal with the consequences however they come down, but I'm not going to drive the 200 yards. It blows me away that people aren't permitted to walk!


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 

This summer we are coaching little league and my son plays. This meant that our youngest daughter couldn't play girls little league because we couldn't be there for her and we don't think its responsible to just drop her off, she's 7.

So, your middle DD doesn't get to play a sport because both you and your husband want to coach your son?

That seems really unfair.

Maybe she'd rather be dropped off and get to play than not be allowed to play because you can't be there. Or maybe, only one of you should coach and the other one should go to her games.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
I think its clear that if the student is supposed to be walking to/from pratice/games thats one thing. If their supposed to be picked up (cause' you know, they live on the other side of town, or out of town, or whatever) and they are *NOT* then they *CAN NOT* just be left to fend for themselves for the next 5 or 10 or 30 or 90 minutes till someone shows up. Kids can walk to and from school, yes. They can't just hang out at school for an hour cause' dad didn't feel like getting his ass off the couch before law & order was over to go pick them up, when he's supposed to do so.

Maybe I'm a bad mom because I'd tell my child to pretend to walk home and then go back to the field and wait for me to pick them up.

I actually did that as a child a few times. I was the youngest of 3 and my mom's disabled so my dad did all the driving (and he ran his own business and worked from home on weekends and evenings). So he was often late picking me up from things. There were a few times when I noticed someone waiting with me, so I'd say I was taking the bus or walking to a friends and then leave. I'd go around the block and end up back where I started to find them gone and then wait for my ride.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I think that's because a kid isn't going to die from heat stroke int he fresh air.

To the best of my knowledge, most laws don't mention the time of year. My kids would have been perfectly safe in a locked car for most of the last three months. I don't think that's it.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't think it's fair that children are denied the chance to play a sport just because the parents can't watch.

What about single parents?

Shift-working parents?

Parents working 2 or 3 jobs to manage?

Parents of blended/step-parenting families?

Parents without a lot of family or friends to help out as "backup"?

It seems pretty harsh (and more than a little smug, comfortable and privileged) to say that children can only play if they have an adoring parental cheering section in tow.

I think it's important to make an effort to attend my children's events. I enjoy watching them play and perform. I wouldn't deny them an opportunity to play just because I can't be there. I also don't judge parents who can't watch their children perform.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
that's certainly not the case where I live, and I don't think it's clear if that's the case where the op's brother lives.

Here 8 years olds often get themselves to and from games and pratices. would your league force someone to pick him up even if he was planning to walk a block home or whatever? Would you prevent an 8 year old from leaving the field at the end of the game to go home?

One of the OP's followup posts said that it was the requirment that he stays until all players are gone


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I would have a serious problem with a school or any organization not allowing my 14 year old to walk herself home. I am surprised more people don't have a problem with that in your husband's case. I can understand the coach expecting the kdis to be off school property before he can leave, but HOW they get off school property is nobody's business, IMO.

I wouldn't... but then again, my HS 15 years ago had the same requirement. In our case that was because to get off campus you had to cross a major road, which was a huge liability for the school. Did I walk home a few times anyway... yeah, but I got in trouble each time when my parents found out. The school entrance was at the top of a hill on a bend, and people drove like maniacs on that road. It's the same where DH coaches, and every other school I've seen a rule like that exist in. In DH's case it's a major 4 lane highway I wouldn't want to try to cross this road on foot... let alone have my I am invincible HS age student do it.

The same rule about coaches being there until all players were picked up existed when we played ball 20+ years ago... for the same reasons, the roads outside our little grass and tree surrounded bits of heaven called ball fields were main roads, and I didn't live in the city. My gf's league also has the same rule and their fields are in the middle of a resedential area, however, her kids would have to walk along a very dangerous, narrow, windy, no curb road to get home. It's a safety issue. Now I can see you not having a problem w/ it if it was say a neighborhood ball field in a subdivision, but if the majority of the kids come from miles away it's the responsibility of the league or school to put rules into place that protect the majority to the best of their ability... exceptions to these rules make things very murky for coaches. How exactly are they supposed to keep track of who is allowed to do what? Trust me, they have enough to keep track of. If you give your kids instructions to sneak off and pretend they're walking home that's on you... but I think the coach should get something in writing that states your child has your permission to walk home so that both the coach and the leagues collective butts are covered.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy7-08* 
One of the OP's followup posts said that it was the requirment that he stays until all players are gone









I thought the latest update was that her brother was waiting to hear back from a league official about what the policy actually is...


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy7-08* 
I wouldn't... but then again, my HS 15 years ago had the same requirement. In our case that was because to get off campus you had to cross a major road, which was a huge liability for the school. Did I walk home a few times anyway... yeah, but I got in trouble each time when my parents found out. The school entrance was at the top of a hill on a bend, and people drove like maniacs on that road. It's the same where DH coaches, and every other school I've seen a rule like that exist in. In DH's case it's a major 4 lane highway I wouldn't want to try to cross this road on foot... let alone have my I am invincible HS age student do it.

The same rule about coaches being there until all players were picked up existed when we played ball 20+ years ago... for the same reasons, the roads outside our little grass and tree surrounded bits of heaven called ball fields were main roads, and I didn't live in the city. My gf's league also has the same rule and their fields are in the middle of a resedential area, however, her kids would have to walk along a very dangerous, narrow, windy, no curb road to get home. It's a safety issue. Now I can see you not having a problem w/ it if it was say a neighborhood ball field in a subdivision, but if the majority of the kids come from miles away it's the responsibility of the league or school to put rules into place that protect the majority to the best of their ability... exceptions to these rules make things very murky for coaches. How exactly are they supposed to keep track of who is allowed to do what? Trust me, they have enough to keep track of. If you give your kids instructions to sneak off and pretend they're walking home that's on you... but I think the coach should get something in writing that states your child has your permission to walk home so that both the coach and the leagues collective butts are covered.

What if someone didn't have a car? Would there parent have to walk up to get them? What if they were seniors, already 18 years of age?

I appreciate hearing about your experience. I just know it's not the case for many other places.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
So, your middle DD doesn't get to play a sport because both you and your husband want to coach your son?

That seems really unfair.

Maybe she'd rather be dropped off and get to play than not be allowed to play because you can't be there. Or maybe, only one of you should coach and the other one should go to her games.

I agree. Kristine - it sounds like your kids are still pretty young. At some point, when they get involved in a sport and possibly excel and definitely love it, they are not going to be okay with skipping years because mom or dad can't be at every game. My kids would MUCH rather be dropped off without me there than not play at all. It also seems like you are setting your kids up to resent one another by saying you both have to be at brother's game so sister doesn't get to participate at all. We neglect our kids equally


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

For the original question, I think it's a league issue at this point.

Whoever runs the league should call the parents to discuss the problem and if the kid's not picked up on time in the future and has to be picked up, I think the head of the league or whoever should come talk to the parents and ask that the child be removed from the team.

I don't think the police need to be involved at all really, but the league definitely does need to do something.

For the discussion about parents and sports I do think it's crazy to expect parents to stay for every practice and game. Picking up their kids on time, totally. But staying all the time? Ugh, that is exactly what makes people give up on sport and/or have crazy lives, not to mention pitting siblings against each other for limited resources.

Also, I personally think that as kids get over 8 years of age or so it benefits them to interact with people away from their parents, in a safe environment. I also think parents should stay connected and stay at the start of a season, show up for a reasonable number of games, and cheer lots. But not every single time.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I agree. Kristine - it sounds like your kids are still pretty young. At some point, when they get involved in a sport and possibly excel and definitely love it, they are not going to be okay with skipping years because mom or dad can't be at every game. My kids would MUCH rather be dropped off without me there than not play at all. It also seems like you are setting your kids up to resent one another by saying you both have to be at brother's game so sister doesn't get to participate at all. We neglect our kids equally









Yeah, this. I did swim team for several years (ages 9-13). My team did practices every evening for 2 hours, 1 hour of additional cross training during a week, and from September through May, meets almost every Saturday. The meets could last 4-5 hours.

I walked to and from practice every day, and often walked myself down to the pool on Saturday to catch a ride to a meet from a coach. My parents definitely didn't come to every meet or even most of them--they had four younger kids with things that had to be done on Saturdays as well. I still slightly resent the fact that I basically couldn't move to the next level because my mom refused to drive me to practices at a different pool with a different team, and the public bus couldn't get me there at the times I needed to be there.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

If it is league policy that he has to stay, the parents should have to be there on time, find another parent to give him a ride or wait with him, or take the kid off the team.
If there is no such policy or law, I agree that an 8 yr. old will be just fine at a park. Sheesh. When my son was 6.5 last fall he had my permission to walk home from flag football after practice. I usually walked to pick him up because my 4 yr. old liked to watch, but at the very first practice I gave the coach my permission to let him walk home if I wasn't there to pick him up. He walks home from school almost every day and has all school year.


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

"hey dad, Jr here is a great little athlete, i'm so glad he's on our team! You should see the double he hit today.. it was awesome! ..Hey btw, I have to be somewhere after our games. What should we do about jr when the games been over for a ahlf hour and you're not here yet? Is there a number I could rreach you at? maybe you could just assume that and hour and fifteen is all he needs, then if you get here a little early you may be able to see him play a bit.. that'd be awesome. So what do you think?"

PS... Drop off is ok in my book


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## marisa724 (Oct 31, 2003)

I think this conversation veered off course slightly, since the question wasn't really about whether an 8 year old could be dropped off at his games or practices. I am of the opinion that as long as everyone is agreeable (both coach and parents) it's not a big deal.

The big deal is that this family probably signed something when they registered Jr. for Little League (we did with DS1). And depending on what they signed, the LL may be assuming responsibility for the child while the child is on LL property or under the supervision of LL personnel. Allowing Jr. to remain behind after all coaches leave creates a legal grey area if god forbid something were to happen before dad came to pick up. I think it's great that the coach is contacting higher-ups at the LL to ascertain exactly what his responsibility is, and how to execute it.

And if it's determined that a note from the parents is all that's needed to absolve the LL of responsibility, then they can go ahead and get that on file. I hate to think of it in these terms, but I've been in these shoes myself as a librarian. Many parents would use the library as a safe space for after school, whatever, but there'd be kids stranded there at closing (5PM) and I knew they lived across town (unwalkable). My coworkers and I all had times when we'd stay with the child, only once did we ever call the police (a whole family of kids, most of whom were actually too young to be in the library per our 'unattended child' policy).

FWIW my son is only 6 and this is his first team sport, etc. so I do go to every game/practice. He's also my oldest and the only one with activities like this, so I can manage that. But I don't watch every second of it (I can't, anyway, with a 2-year-old) and honestly I think he does better if he thinks we're not paying attention. I certainly stay way back to let the coaches handle any behavior issues or anything (they're still at the age where they lay down in the outfield and stuff!).


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
My high school was this way if your parents were picking you up from a school event. It had to be your parents, and they had to get you. Students who walked were a different story, but...in my children's soon-to-be school district, you are not allowed to walk and/or allow your child to walk to school. We live 200 yards away, and we're walking next year. We'll deal with the consequences however they come down, but I'm not going to drive the 200 yards. It blows me away that people aren't permitted to walk!

It blows me away even further that they make the assumption that every parent has a car and can drive.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

and really, this is such a first world/middle class problem









Seriously I am flabbergasted by the people whos e kids go to a school that requires a parent drive to pick them up, and the people here who believe parents need to watch their child play in every game. What a luxury!


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
and really, this is such a first world/middle class problem









Seriously I am flabbergasted by the people whos e kids go to a school that requires a parent drive to pick them up, and the people here who believe parents need to watch their child play in every game. What a luxury!

...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.


I agree. But there are posters saying if a parent doesn't attend every single game and practice, then said parent isn't actually parenting that child. Seems way over the top to me, and a huge symptom of middle class entitlement.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, *even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury*.

The difference is, is that I'm not saying people who don't use the internet are negligent parents or something.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
It blows me away even further that they make the assumption that every parent has a car and can drive.

No kidding! I didn't drive until just before my son staretd high school. My sister still doesn't drive, couldn't afford a car even if she did, and her oldest is finishing 9th grade (2nd year of high school in our system) next month. What an insane requirement.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
...could be wrong, but likely the majority of people posting on this site belong to this segment of society...not all, of course. Jeeze, even having internet and free time to post responses to issues like this can be seen as a luxury.

Check out the Frugality and Finances forum. While I have money enough now, when I joined MDC, I was 17, nursing my toddler in front of the computer at the library on break from my $6 an hour job.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I can't find the post again to quote it but I have to say a huge Oh MY are you SERIOUS?!

In this day and age and all this talk about childhood obesity and how fat *everyone* in our nation is becoming....there are actually schools that ban ANYONE walking to the school? Even a parent walking WITH the child?! That has got to be the CRAZIEST thing I have EVER heard!

Now DS's future school is a magnet. It has a parental-involvement requirement. They also do not bus, in part because it is so small and kids are enrolled from all areas. This is something that is made clear along with the "commitment" to time in your child's classroom. If you can't arrange transportation--and there are carpools, it's not required that it be a PARENT, etc. you can't go. (so someone could conceivably have a sitter and get enough time off to do the half-day requirement, maybe they work where they can work at another time to make it up or whatever, or like my friend's job, they give her hours off for school activities, whatever the case may be. If you can arrange to meet the requirements, you can attend, provided you get to the top of the waiting list.)


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaceful_mama* 
I can't find the post again to quote it but I have to say a huge Oh MY are you SERIOUS?!

In this day and age and all this talk about childhood obesity and how fat *everyone* in our nation is becoming....there are actually schools that ban ANYONE walking to the school? Even a parent walking WITH the child?! That has got to be the CRAZIEST thing I have EVER heard!

I know. I'm still a bit shocked, and I've known about the policy for a while. To make things worse, we live in one of the *most* obese states in the country. I'm on the board of a pedestrian/bicycling advocacy group, and this is one of the areas we're targeting. We have a Safe Routes to School grant which will allow us to begin constructing paved trails to the schools, but the school administrators are "uneasy" about the idea of children walking to school. We're constructing a whole PR campaign to convince people it's safe.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

OMG these people would've had a complete FIT with what we did as kids...me, my best friend, many other kids in our school, walked probably 5-6 blocks to our homes. Across one "busy street" for our town. Across the driveways exiting the high school, which got out when we were walking. Across another street.

WE LIVED TO TELL THE TALE! AND we were WITHOUT ADULTS. AND we were maybe *almost 7* or 7 when we started this!

my kids' school and most of the schools in the district have selected 4th and 5th graders as crossing guards at the streets nearest the schools.

back to the topic of this thread at 8 I was riding my bike all over the neighborhood and going to a nearby park without adults...


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

The specific problem may be first world/ middle class, but there certainly are people all over the world and of all economic classes who are only too happy to tell mothers that they're doing everything wrong. That's a universal practice.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I usually vote with other lower income parents, but on this one , im with the 'self entitled middle classes'. I think its negligent for a father to turn up late to pick up his son, and inconsiderate at best, to leave another man (the volunteer) legally responsible for his son without asking his permission, or so much as a thankyou, or an apology.

There is clearly a miscommunication here ( again at best), and something needs to be sorted out as far as when this child is picked up. If he can walk home, then thats another subject (so why is dad picking him up at all?)

Where my son does gymnastics, parents are not required to stay ( i would love to if the younger ds werent so disruptive). But it is certainly expected that we pick them up on time.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I don't get how this has turned into the evil oppressive little league coach vs. the parent who just doesn't want his kid to be fat. 

Look, I don't care if parents stay or not. I wouldn't stay at a practice unless it was so far away it wasn't worth going home or doing errands. If I lived close by, I might consider asking the league/coach if I could give them a notarized statement if necessary to allow my kid to walk home.

But being rich, poor, carless, carred, whatever does NOT give ANYONE a pass to take advantage of a volunteer parent. Period. If you can't deal with the league requirement that you actually pick up your child on time, then for pete's sake, don't put them in there if you will not make other arrangements (which are *YOUR* responsibility to make, BTW).

Carpool. Take a bus. Call the coach/league and figure out what you need to do to make their insurance/liability concerns go away. Bother to factor in travelling time for your errands. Or if you truly can't do it, then withdraw your child.

Seems simple to me. To be honest, if this happened on a regular basis, I would want that kid off my team, or myself out of a coaching position the next year. If someone gave me permission to drop the kid off at his house myself, no problem. But to constantly take advantage of someone like that and not seem to bother finding a solution?

Jerky is jerky, regardless of social class or excuse. IMO. Though to be honest, I think the league that has no apparent protection or policy for their volunteers is being stupid. I know I would not volunteer again unless I knew there was that policy in place.

And it's a little scary that kids are allowed to participate without contact numbers and emergency contacts.


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## Mom2M (Sep 23, 2006)

I agree this has nothing to do with making it hard for parents with more than one kid or being ridiculous about how old a kid should be allowed to walk a certain distance unsupervised.
My DH is a Little League coach. He is legally required to stay there until all the kids are picked up. He has given rides to so many kids over the years and has no problem with it but needs permission to do it.
They should have all contact info in the registration form and he should get in touch with the parents even if he needs to mail them a letter if he can't talk in person or by phone to them.
It is absolutely unfair to take advantage of a volunteer coach. They put in a lot of hours and take a lot of crap from parents in order to teach kids and pass on their love of the game.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I don't get how this has turned into the evil oppressive little league coach vs. the parent who just doesn't want his kid to be fat. 

Look, I don't care if parents stay or not. I wouldn't stay at a practice unless it was so far away it wasn't worth going home or doing errands. If I lived close by, I might consider asking the league/coach if I could give them a notarized statement if necessary to allow my kid to walk home.

But being rich, poor, carless, carred, whatever does NOT give ANYONE a pass to take advantage of a volunteer parent. Period. If you can't deal with the league requirement that you actually pick up your child on time, then for pete's sake, don't put them in there if you will not make other arrangements (which are *YOUR* responsibility to make, BTW).

Carpool. Take a bus. Call the coach/league and figure out what you need to do to make their insurance/liability concerns go away. Bother to factor in travelling time for your errands. Or if you truly can't do it, then withdraw your child.

Seems simple to me. To be honest, if this happened on a regular basis, I would want that kid off my team, or myself out of a coaching position the next year. If someone gave me permission to drop the kid off at his house myself, no problem. But to constantly take advantage of someone like that and not seem to bother finding a solution?

Jerky is jerky, regardless of social class or excuse. IMO. Though to be honest, I think the league that has no apparent protection or policy for their volunteers is being stupid. I know I would not volunteer again unless I knew there was that policy in place.

And it's a little scary that kids are allowed to participate without contact numbers and emergency contacts.

Great post. You are so right.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
My point is, you can coordinate sports with multiple kids. Sometimes not everyone gets their first choice of sports that season but we accommodate as much as we can. I will not allow my kids to participate in something that I know we can't be there for the events/games. This is a huge part of parenting. Or we call in grandparent backup if possible. I didn't have kids to miss out on these events. I had children so I could PARENT them.

Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.

I teach college students, and I am SHOCKED by how many of them can't even write a paper without calling mommy and asking for her opinion. Students--ADULT students--no longer come by themselves to admitted students day, no longer choose their own course schedules without parental input, and have their parents phone professors to dispute grades. What's going to happen when these students, these adults, get jobs? How are they ever going to learn to be responsible for their own lives, schedules, and choices? I'm all for being an involved and active parent, but I think too many people are over-coddling their kids. When I was in college, choosing and managing my own courses, my job, and my relationships with professors prepared me for the "real world" far more than the actual content of the classes.

Finally, I was involved in many activities as a child and have many siblings. At least one of my parents (both of whom worked) always made it to "major" events (a play or concert, for example), but they were not able to attend every single game, practice, rehearsal, class, etc. Not only did their absence not bother me, but I found it actively nice, sometimes, to be on my own--to feel independent, to develop my sense of self without always having someone watching over me.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.

Exactly. I have seen lots of people who think that the should "actively parent" their children during games and practices, and most of the time--it ain't pretty.

Part of parenting *is* letting go a bit, and at least faking confidence (assuming that they are worthy of confidence) in your child's ability to participate in other safe activities without your constant presence/feedback. IMO. Does this need to happen at 4 years old? No. But by the time the child is naturally wanting to have some of that, in late childhood/approaching adolescence I would hope that the parent is able to give that to their kid.

If the child understands that you won't be there all the time because of various other committments, and still wants to participate...I think it shows more love and respect to the child to work out carpool or other arrangements for their participation *despite* your high need to be there at all times. That's a parental sacrifice as well. It allows the child to see that you support them enough to make it happen even if it doesn't in your ideal way. Of course, you also have to uphold your end of the bargain and be there to pick up on time or make good arrangements so that they don't feel worried. And yes, I understand that some kids aren't ready for that and that's fine--let them do it at their own pace.

But to look down on people who have/are willing to make arrangements with their kids for their participation in something even though the parent cannot be there ALL the time...really? To deny your older kids doing something, even if you could pick them up/drop them off on time just because you can't stay there all the time...I dunno. That seems far less about parenting and more about control. Sometimes that goes hand in hand, but a lot of times it does not. I think it does kids a disservice to restrict them from good activities just because you can't devote the same amount of time to it personally. Of course, if you really cannot make a drop off/pick up work, that's a different story, and in no way do I think kids should get to do everything they want to do when they want to do it...but surely folks can see a balance there!

Or maybe not. It would have never occured to me that people who allow their children to attend practice without them aren't parenting their kids. IMO, they are--by allowing their children the experience of greater freedom but still in a controlled, safe environment.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Another "huge part of parenting," IMO, is allowing your children some independence and teaching them that the world does not always revolve around them. Sometimes parents have other commitments--work, other children, etc.--and I think you (the general you, not you personally) do your kids a disservice when you teach them that every other important thing in the world can be dropped for them ALL the time.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Finally, I was involved in many activities as a child and have many siblings. At least one of my parents (both of whom worked) always made it to "major" events (a play or concert, for example), but they were not able to attend every single game, practice, rehearsal, class, etc. Not only did their absence not bother me, but I found it actively nice, sometimes, to be on my own--to feel independent, to develop my sense of self without always having someone watching over me.

Bravo. ITA. Part of healthy parenting, is letting go. Not suddenly, dramatically at 18 when they are out of the house at university. This is actually a huge disservice to your DC, IMO. Instead, slowly, over time, respectfully, give your DC the freedom to grow and develop the life skills they need. I'd let my 8 yo walk, or be driven, to little league, and leave and come back afterwards. In fact, if I felt my 8yo would prefer to be there with his friends without me for whatever reason, I would probably respect his space and leave even if I had NOTHING else to do. I Even if I didn't want to go. Sometimes you hold your breath and let them go, and that is actually the hardest thing!


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

Ok, an update of sorts.

I spoke to my brother again after my niece's game this weekend and I got a bit more background. He did/does have a contact list with parents' phone numbers. When the parents of the boy filled out the form, they only provided a home phone number, but no cell numbers. The person who typed up the contact sheet accidentally copied the number from the line above down to match up with this family. My brother never noticed until the first game the kid came to and tried to call the parents to see where they were / why they weren't picking the kid up. When he called the number it was "hi, you've reached John & Mary, etc" and realized the number was wrong / duplicated. It was on his to do list to call the head guy to get the correct number but he forgot about it until the 2nd game that the kid was left.

He now has the correct home phone number, and has spoken to the league administrator. As stated before, they have a policy that requires the coaches to stay until all of the kids are picked up. They purposely don't have a policy requiring parents to stay for the entire game since they realize that there are times that parents need to split their time between different children or run quick errands. The form that the parents fill out states that parents agree to pick up their child "promptly" after practices and games. Again, it seems that they are leaving it sort of purposely vague in order to have some flexibility.

When speaking to the league administrator, they agreed that my brother would call the family and discuss how they had to be better at picking the kid up after the games. The administrator suggested getting a cell phone number and having my brother call during the last inning and telling the dad he needed to be back in X amount of minutes.

My brother called the house and the phone was answered by an older sibling (brother thinks he was an older teen based on the voice) and left a message for them to call him back. They didn't call him, but he knows that teens can be unreliable with message taking and giving so he waited a few days and called the house again. This time he got an answering machine and he left a message saying he'd hoped to talk to the dad about the games and picking up the kid afterwards and maybe they could work out a solution with him calling dad's cell phone. They haven't returned his call and the kid has now missed two games.

Brother let administrator know where things stood and administrator was going to call the family to ask if everything was ok and if the kid still wanted to participate. Brother isn't sure if administrator made the call yet or if he made the call and didn't get a return call. All brother knows is that administrator told him he'd call and let him know what the family said and administrator didn't call him to tell him anything yet.

I'll try to update again when I get any other information.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy7-08* 
I wouldn't... but then again, my HS 15 years ago had the same requirement. In our case that was because to get off campus you had to cross a major road, which was a huge liability for the school. Did I walk home a few times anyway... yeah, but I got in trouble each time when my parents found out. The school entrance was at the top of a hill on a bend, and people drove like maniacs on that road. It's the same where DH coaches, and every other school I've seen a rule like that exist in. In DH's case it's a major 4 lane highway I wouldn't want to try to cross this road on foot... let alone have my I am invincible HS age student do it.


Wow, that just blows my mind. I can't think of any high school in my city that monitors how 14 year olds get home. I used to walk or take public transit. We simply knew that if you jaywalk in front of a streetcar and it hits you, you die. I'm thinking of local public schools on my drive to pick up my kids (their school is a good hour walk away for an adult, they're 2 1/2 and 41/2) and there are kids from elementary schools crossing 7 lane roads.


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## Catubodua (Apr 21, 2008)

sorry i don't have much more of an update, but i did want to let everyone know that the last two games that i went to the dad and the older sibling were there and stayed the whole game. still no sighting of mom.

the child still doesn't come to every game, and i'm starting to wonder if it's a custody thing, as in, if dad has him he comes to games.

i am not sure what happened behind the scenes with the league administrator, but i do know that my brother never got a hold of the dad on the phone. however, he's spoken to him at the games and there doesn't seem to be any continuing issues (for now).


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Well sounds like something changed, someone talked to Dad, and I hope that little boy at least feels better that his dad and brother are actually there for the games he does go to, and he doesn't have to wait around forever after games and watch everyone else's parents pick them up and feel like a loser.

Hopefully this is a good development for the boy, and clearly it makes things better for your brother. Hope this is a win-win...


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