# 9 year old girl sharing a shower with two other girls..........what do you think?



## Virginia Mom

Okay, so I was just curious as to what the other mommies thought.........a friend just told me how her daughter went to a sleep over.......and she just informed mom that the 'mom in charge' had her take a shower with two other gals.........they are all about 9 years old........naked a jaybirds in the shower/tub...with 'mom in charge' coming into the bathroom several times to ??check on kids.....Do you let your 9 year old daughter shower with her friends? I'm getting mixed answers from local mommies.....Thanks.


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## Heavenly

I wouldn't feel comfortable with it.


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## whatsnextmom

No, not a good idea. Even if the girls are best friends and totally comfortable, it's just not a line I would cross. A rinse off after the pool or beach with everyone in their suits, fine. Naked with a strange adult checking in on them? That's just asking for trouble.


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## MountainMamaGC

I wouldnt allow it and they should at very least ask the parents. Its good to ask about this stuff. I let my 4 YO and her friend take a bath together, but I asked her mother first.


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## Linda on the move

I wouldn't allow my child to go back to that house. Ever.


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## SimonMom

I don't know. I remember being around 7 and taking a bath with my friend. I don't think it's necessarily something to be worried about.


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## One_Girl

I wouldn't like it at all. I find the part about the mom coming in especially disturbing. I suggest you remind her that her naked body is only for her eyes and teach her what you want her to do in think type of situation. When my Dr told me about her friends mom having her change in the living room while her friend wandered the house naked I told her to say no thanks I will wait until the bathroom is free. I also made sure to remind her that it is never ever appropriate for an adult to look at her naked body except the doctor if she needs to to keep her healthy (she is past the age where she needs help bathing). I think sometimes it helps to remind kids that privacy is a right they can stand up for even when they are a guest.


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## Mom31

I remember showering in swim suits together around that age but not naked- thats too old IMO. I also remember being 10 and staying with a family and sharing a shower with the 8 and 7 year old- the mama was a big hippie and I think it had to do with being a big family and conserving water. I had hair and boobs at this point and it was not ok but at the time seemed like no big deal


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## mtiger

Is your friend;s child uncomfortable with the situation?


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## Daffodil

My 9 year old would think nothing of this, and it wouldn't bother me. How is this any different from showering and changing clothes in front of other girls and women in a locker room at school or at a pool or gym? Of course, if one or more of the girls wanted privacy and was uncomfortable with the situation, they shouldn't be required to shower together, but if none of them care, what's the big deal?


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## Imakcerka

Nope, there is no reason for it. I would ask the mother why she thought it was ok? If they were siblings that's one thing otherwise... no.


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## CI Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> My 9 year old would think nothing of this, and it wouldn't bother me. How is this any different from showering and changing clothes in front of other girls and women in a locker room at school or at a pool or gym? Of course, if one or more of the girls wanted privacy and was uncomfortable with the situation, they shouldn't be required to shower together, but if none of them care, what's the big deal?


I agree with this.

I think there are a range of healthy attitudes around being naked with other people, and nothing in the situation that the OP described seemed troublesome to me, if none of the girls was uncomfortable with the situation.


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## mar123

I have two daughters and they have sleep overs all the time; never have they and their friends taken baths or showers together. When the girls were younger, they were always bathed before they came over. Now that they are older (14 and 11), their friends shower, but alone. Sometimes they change in the same room, but only from one outfit to another. They have bras and panties on, which cover as much as bathing suits. Now that I think about it, whenever my girls have had or been to sleep overs, the bathing was discussion was always held at drop off.

I have been teaching high school for 16 years, and I have never taught at a school where kids shower after PE- and I live in the South. They change in locker rooms, but no one is ever completely naked.

Both my girls started going through puberty by age nine and their bodies were developing. They would have been uncomfortable about showering naked with two friends. I do agree that it depends on the comfort level, and I think that if any of the children are parents are uncomfortable, it should be respected.


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## beanma

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> My 9 year old would think nothing of this, and it wouldn't bother me. How is this any different from showering and changing clothes in front of other girls and women in a locker room at school or at a pool or gym? Of course, if one or more of the girls wanted privacy and was uncomfortable with the situation, they shouldn't be required to shower together, but if none of them care, what's the big deal?


I agree with this take.

However, I don't think my kids have ever showered or bathed on a sleepover nor have I asked kids who have slept over at our house to bathe/shower.

I do think it absolutely depends on the comfort level of the kids involved, but if all the girls were okay with it I don't see a problem.

Kids who are on athletic teams in schools, do take showers and change in the locker rooms.

My dds (11 and 8) are, of course, sisters, but they regularly share the bathroom and are naked around each other. For some reason the bathroom is terribly funny and exciting (they go crazy in there every night when it's time to brush their teeth and get ready for bed). The whole bathroom-as-fun/crazy-place seems to carry over with many of their friends and they love to go to the bathroom together to cut up. So I could see my kids being okay with taking a shower together with friends. However my dd2 can also be very modest (for some reason, she hates to share the bathroom in the morning, but thinks it's great at night) and I could see her not wanting to do it, too.

If the kids are all okay with it, and if the mom knocked on the door and asked if she could come in (can't blame her for wanting to see if there was water all over the place) I wouldn't have a problem with it.


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## <3mymom

I'm not yet a parent but I thought I would reply and say that if all the girls were comfortable taking a shower together then I do not see a problem, however, if they anyone was their comfort should have been respected. When I was that age I would take showers with my best friend, we did it because we were often in a hurry to get somewhere (soccer practice, dance, etc.). We continued to take showers together through high school and still do sometimes if it happens to be more convenient (after the beach at someone lake house, lots of people not much hot water or similar situations). It worked for us but of course would not for everyone, it was just our level of comfort. Now, I would not have been comfortable with any adult walking in on me naked at that age, but I guess it just depends on everyone's comfort and need for privacy.


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## AAK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> My 9 year old would think nothing of this, and it wouldn't bother me. How is this any different from showering and changing clothes in front of other girls and women in a locker room at school or at a pool or gym? Of course, if one or more of the girls wanted privacy and was uncomfortable with the situation, they shouldn't be required to shower together, but if none of them care, what's the big deal?


I agree with this. With my girls, my oldest has never shared a shower with anyone other than her sisters. My middle kid (9) and her very best friend do occassionally share a shower. And, what's funny is that my 9 yr old is usually the more modest of the two.

Amy


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## Buzzer Beater

What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?

I was a tomboy and my best friend and I used to get filthy when we played outdoors. Then we'd go jump in her mom's huge whirlpool bath and have a blast. I'm pretty sure we did that until sixth grade, and I'm pretty sure her mom monitored us at least a bit. Who cares?

If the girl was uncomfortable and forced into it, of course that's wrong. It just depends on the scenario. I wouldn't let my daughters spend the night at a friend's house (at that age) if I did not know and trust the adult in charge.


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## Peony

If my 9 year old is ok with it, then I would be fine. I don't know how DD1 would feel about it. She is getting to that age where sometimes she is modest, other times, not at all. She wanders around our house naked all the time but then worries if someone else is going to see her if she is changing in the car for a sport practice. If all the girls were ok with it then that is different then if they were uncomfortable with it.


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## Alphaghetti

I would have no problem with this either. When we lived in Florida, my then 10 year old daughter and her friends would shower together when we came back from the beach. It never occurred to me that their parents would have a problem with it. I wouldn't "check on them", but I have opened the door to talk to them. On a recent trip down south, my now 12 yo daughter and her friend showered together every day when we got back from the pool. I didn't think twice, nor did the other three adults in the house. My same daughter is actually having a sleepover tonight with a friend, and she just came into my room with her friend, stripped naked and changed while talking to me. None of us batted an eye. I am pleased that none of my kids feels the need to hide their bodies around people they know and trust.

I wonder the same as the above poster. Is it the nudity, the mom, or what other issues? I think the only issue I would have is if one of the children was uncomfortable.


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## whatsnextmom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?
> 
> I was a tomboy and my best friend and I used to get filthy when we played outdoors. Then we'd go jump in her mom's huge whirlpool bath and have a blast. I'm pretty sure we did that until sixth grade, and I'm pretty sure her mom monitored us at least a bit. Who cares?
> 
> If the girl was uncomfortable and forced into it, of course that's wrong. It just depends on the scenario. I wouldn't let my daughters spend the night at a friend's house (at that age) if I did not know and trust the adult in charge.


The discomfort for me would be in an adult asking my child to shower with others in their home. We constantly have girls staying here especially the Girl Scouts. I don't require they shower. I would certainly not ask them to shower together. I had one girl who was an abuse victim and she didn't even want others to touch her let alone see her naked. Most started not even wanting to change around each other at 9 (which is when most were starting to develop.) They seem to have gotten over that now that they are in high school but at that age, most wanted to change alone even though they had known some of these girls from toddlerhood.

Some are trying to equate it with sports and P.E. but that doesn't really work in our area. The schools don't use the showers and haven't since I was in them 20 years ago. The gyms in our area offer private shower stalls. The open showers are used for rinsing off after the pool. I've never seen a naked person there... especially since there are sometimes 7-year-old boys hanging around with mom. When I camp with my girl scouts, they have separate, private shower stalls. My kids do theatre and are used to changing around others but they aren't stripping down to nothing and it's different from showering with 2 other girls in a standard sized home bathroom.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with 9-year-olds showering together. It the parents are all on board and the kids are truly comfortable. I just feel it's inappropriate to ask that at a random sleep-over where you may not know the girls history nor know the other families well. Many girls that age would not want to disobey the mom in charge or worry about being teased if they didn't go along with it and so would do it despite their discomfort level.


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## beanma

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater* 


> I wouldn't let my daughters spend the night at a friend's house (at that age) if I did not know and trust the adult in charge.


This is key. If I think about my daughters and the friends that they spend the night with, I know the parents and kids very well and it would be a non-issue for me. I also know my kids very well and know that they would feel very comfortable telling one of these friends' moms that they didn't want to take a shower with the other girls and wanted some privacy if that was how they felt.

This situation happened to the OP's friend's kid so we're getting it all third hand, but the OP said "and she (the daughter) just informed mom that the 'mom in charge' had her take a shower with two other gals". It's unclear to me (and maybe also to the OP) what was involved when the mom in charge "had her take a shower" with the other girls. Was that like, "you get in there right now and take a shower!" or was it more of a "time to take a shower now - do you want to all take a shower together?" Without more to go on I can't say how I would feel about this scenario, but I do know that I know the moms where my kids would spend the night and they absolutely wouldn't *force* the kids to shower together. If anybody came up with that idea it would be the kids.

BTW, moms whose kids have sleepovers, does showering usually go on? We've never done it at our house and my kids have never done it at their friends' houses. They have showered together at the pool many times.


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## whatsnextmom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beanma*
> 
> BTW, moms whose kids have sleepovers, does showering usually go on? We've never done it at our house and my kids have never done it at their friends' houses. They have showered together at the pool many times.


No, showers at sleepovers aren't common in our area. We've had a least one kid stay over a month for the last 7 or 8 years and they've rarely chosen to shower until they hit high school age. DD has taken a shower at friends houses the last year because she's in high school and often sleepovers are before dances and such. Before that, no. DS has never showered at a friends house. He usually showers before going and when they get home.


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## jdsf

I agree that the weird part is the mom popping in to check on them. At 9, I don't think 3 children would have a problem showering without supervision. Through 4th grade, I had a couple of friends I showered with, as both of my DDs did. They both had a couple of friends they had known since they were preschool age and were commonly naked together as small children, so it would seem weirder to impose some "you're too old to be naked around each other" rule than to let them make that decision themselves. DD14 stopped showering with her step sister/best friend around puberty and I suspect DD11 has reached that point, too, but at 9 I don't think it's uncommon or "weird". I would, however, be weirded out by the presence of other mom, unless there was a good reason she needed to be in there.


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## mtiger

Really, if the girls didn't have an issue with it? I wouldn't either. Even the Mom. I could see popping my head in to see if they needed anything. Or to remind them to wash armpits and privates. Don't forget to rinse out the conditioner (LOL I always forget!).

BUT... my daughter has no issues with stripping down in front of most any g/f or Mom. Her thought is "we've all got the same bits!" She'll strip down to a sports bra/sliders in public if she needs to change her uniform or whatever. Just recently she stripped down at the hot tub 'cause she went in with bra/sliders and wanted to change into dry ones - she just asked me to hold up a towel in front of her - wasn't worried about the butt side.

I could see a girl w/more modesty being a little less... out there.


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## One_Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> *What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?*
> 
> I was a tomboy and my best friend and I used to get filthy when we played outdoors. Then we'd go jump in her mom's huge whirlpool bath and have a blast. I'm pretty sure we did that until sixth grade, and I'm pretty sure her mom monitored us at least a bit. Who cares?
> 
> If the girl was uncomfortable and forced into it, of course that's wrong. It just depends on the scenario. I wouldn't let my daughters spend the night at a friend's house (at that age) if I did not know and trust the adult in charge.


For me it is mostly the presence of the mom in the bathroom that makes this seem like a very inappropriate situation. There is no reason for an adult to be in the bathroom with a nine year old unless they have a medical or developmental condition that makes it impossible for them to bathe themselves independently. It doesn't sound like that was the case here.

I would also worry that my dd didn't see this as a choice she could say no to because the adult in charge told her to do it. This mother really should have known that kids won't always say what they are comfortable with when they don't think they have a choice. On top of that, bathing is really not something kids do at sleepovers. All of this combined would really make me wonder about the mother's motives and if it were my child I would strongly consider a call to CPS, especially if there were other times when it seemed like the mother hadn't respected my dd's privacy.

As an aside: OP I totally misread your post in my original response. I was reading from my little phone and very tired. Sorry about that.


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## AAK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beanma*
> 
> BTW, moms whose kids have sleepovers, does showering usually go on? We've never done it at our house and my kids have never done it at their friends' houses. They have showered together at the pool many times.


No, showers are regular. With my older dd (who showers daily), I will put out towels and let the kids know that they MAY shower if they would like to. I think only one girl has taken us up on that.

Amy


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## Daffodil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> For me it is mostly the presence of the mom in the bathroom that makes this seem like a very inappropriate situation. There is no reason for an adult to be in the bathroom with a nine year old unless they have a medical or developmental condition that makes it impossible for them to bathe themselves independently. It doesn't sound like that was the case here.
> 
> I would also worry that my dd didn't see this as a choice she could say no to because the adult in charge told her to do it.  This mother really should have known that kids won't always say what they are comfortable with when they don't think they have a choice. On top of that, bathing is really not something kids do at sleepovers. All of this combined would really make me wonder about the mother's motives and if it were my child I would strongly consider a call to CPS, especially if there were other times when it seemed like the mother hadn't respected my dd's privacy.


A call to CPS?! Even just considering that seems like a way over the top response to me. To me, this seems similar to the situation when I take my kids to the local pool for swimming lessons or a homeschool get-together. Afterwards there are generally several girls around my DD's age or younger (she's 9) taking showers, drying off, and putting on clothes while several moms hang around in the locker room handing kids towels, chatting with each other, and hurrying the kids along. Yes, the girls are naked in front of each other, and yes, adults are there seeing other people's naked kids. No one cares. The kids have a tendency to stand around talking to each other or getting silly or having fun with the hair dryer unless the moms keep nagging them to work on getting dressed. I can imagine the mom at the sleepover might have been doing the same thing - just making sure the kids were really washing and drying and not just fooling around. Even if one of the girls was uncomfortable about having to shower with the others or having an adult see her naked, I can't get see getting too outraged about it. Being a little embarrassed isn't the worst thing that can happen to a kid.


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## Mom31

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> *What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?*
> 
> 
> 
> For me it is mostly the presence of the mom in the bathroom that makes this seem like a very inappropriate situation. There is no reason for an adult to be in the bathroom with a nine year old unless they have a medical or developmental condition that makes it impossible for them to bathe themselves independently. It doesn't sound like that was the case here.
Click to expand...

How old are your kids? I still sit in the bathroom while my 8.5 yo ds takes a bath- he likes me to give him math facts during this time. He also likes me to help him out of the tub with a towel etc. he is a little immature but that s just how it is in our family.

I am sure he will want more privacy sooner rather than later- but I am his mom and he is not ashamed of his naked body in front of me.


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## chickabiddy

My 9yo and her friend pop in and out of each other's shower stalls after swim team to share conditioner and things. I think it's kind of silly, but it doesn't send up any red flags to me.

The situation described in the OP -- three girls in a tub with mom checking several times -- is really pushing the boundaries of what I'd be comfortable with. I would not call CPS, but I'd probably make sure I hosted the next sleepover/playdate.


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## mtiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mom31*
> 
> How old are your kids? I still sit in the bathroom while my 8.5 yo ds takes a bath- he likes me to give him math facts during this time. He also likes me to help him out of the tub with a towel etc. he is a little immature but that s just how it is in our family.
> 
> I am sure he will want more privacy sooner rather than later- but I am his mom and he is not ashamed of his naked body in front of me.


Uuuummmm... My nearlt 18yo daughter likes me in the bathroom when she showers. It's good time for us to chat about stuff.


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## chickabiddy

I'm not bothered by a parent being in the bathroom when her or his own child is showering or bathing. I'm somewhat uneasy -- not quite bothered but not quite copacetic -- about a parent finding reason to be in the bathroom when other children are showering.


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## One_Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mom31*
> 
> How old are your kids? I still sit in the bathroom while my 8.5 yo ds takes a bath- he likes me to give him math facts during this time. He also likes me to help him out of the tub with a towel etc. he is a little immature but that s just how it is in our family.
> I am sure he will want more privacy sooner rather than later- but I am his mom and he is not ashamed of his naked body in front of me.


My DD is nine and has been showering without me going into the bathroom for a few years now. I can't remember my mother ever going into the bathroom when I was in there and her friends were showering alone before her, she was a little slow in the independence area. My DD is also not ashamed of her body despite being able to shower eindependentaly and understanding that she should expect adults to keep their eyes off her body. Wanting privacy and feeling shame aren't the same thing.

Daffodil: No a cps call doesn't seem extreme to me if there were other things regarding nudity and privacy that seem okay individually but looked at as part of a whole are very suspicious. A locker room is also very different than a home bathroom. My DD runs around the locker room talking to everybody while she is nude but at home and in her friends homes she feels very differently about her privacy as do most of the friends who come to our home.


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> What exactly makes this uncomfortable for people? The nudity or the presence of a parent in the bathroom?


The parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them -- which is what was described. Them being in water doesn't change those basic facts. It's about who was in control. Its creepy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beanma*
> BTW, moms whose kids have sleepovers, does showering usually go on? We've never done it at our house and my kids have never done it at their friends' houses. They have showered together at the pool many times.


no. It's really not usually to bother with bathing during sleepovers.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> Really, if the girls didn't have an issue with it?


To me, it crosses the line, which is how perps start. They cross the line in small ways, then in little bit bigger ways. It's really better to have very clear boundaries. And adults not telling children to take off their clothes and then looking at the children is pretty clearly where a boundary needs to be.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> Wanting privacy and feeling shame aren't the same thing.


Agreed.


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## Daffodil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> Daffodil: No a cps call doesn't seem extreme to me if there were other things regarding nudity and privacy that seem okay individually but looked at as part of a whole are very suspicious. A locker room is also very different than a home bathroom. My DD runs around the locker room talking to everybody while she is nude but at home and in her friends homes she feels very differently about her privacy as do most of the friends who come to our home.


I don't get this. What makes nudity in front of other people okay in a locker room but not in a private home? Is it that privacy might lead to sexual activity? Is it that public nudity is "normal" in a locker room and "not normal" at home? Of course, what's normal at home may be very different in different families. If your daughter feels differently about privacy when she's at home, I imagine that may be something you've taught her, perhaps even without realizing what you were teaching. And maybe your clear expectations about privacy influence the way her friends act, too. You certainly seem to have strong feelings about the subject, and your daughter can't help but be affected by them.


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## Nicole730

I agree with those who say, only if the girls were uncomfortable with it. They shouldn't be forced to it, but if they don't think it's a big deal - it's not. And I would hope parents periodically check in on 9 year olds no matter where they are. If the situation was innocent, then opening the door and asking if everything was okay is a great way to check on them.


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## One_Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> I don't get this. What makes nudity in front of other people okay in a locker room but not in a private home? Is it that privacy might lead to sexual activity? Is it that public nudity is "normal" in a locker room and "not normal" at home? Of course, what's normal at home may be very different in different families. If your daughter feels differently about privacy when she's at home, I imagine that may be something you've taught her, perhaps even without realizing what you were teaching. And maybe your clear expectations about privacy influence the way her friends act, too. You certainly seem to have strong feelings about the subject, and your daughter can't help but be affected by them.


I think I was very clear that it was the adult directing and watching that creeped me out. Yes, I have taught my DD that adults shouldn't watch her do anything naked and if it ever comes up I will teach my dd's friends the same thing. As far as my dd's desire for privacy, I mostly followed her cues and so
e she picked up from me wanting to use the bathroom and shower in peace. I also taught her by not staying in the bathroom to do things for her once she was capable of doing them for herself. I think teaching kids that it isn't normal for adults to have contact with their naked body/private parts starts with the modeling we do at home.

I would worry a little about the exploration aspect that goes on with naked kids this age, but only because that has to be explained to parents nit because I think they are being sexual. As I said a few times though, the thing I see as wrong is the adults actions in this situation.


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## Daffodil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> The parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them -- which is what was described. Them being in water doesn't change those basic facts. It's about who was in control. Its creepy.


It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios. What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them." That's one (very extreme) way to imagine it. I imagined it more like this: The mom thinks it would be a good idea for the kids to take a shower. (Maybe they've been running around getting all sweaty.) Thinking about the amount of time and hot water it would take for 3 kids to shower one after the other, she suggests that they all just hop in the shower together. The girls happily agree and they go into the bathroom, undress, and start showering. A few times the mom sticks her head in to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on or to make sure they're all actually showering. She probably happens to see at least one naked body when she does, but she doesn't pay any particular attention to it.

Of course there are a hundred other ways to imagine what happened. We can imagine the girls are uncomfortable with the situation but afraid to say so. We can imagine the mom is a pedophile who is getting off on seeing naked girls. But why would we? Why does the worst possible explanation come so easily to mind for so many people? Lenore Skenazy (www.freerangekids.com) calls it "Worst-First" thinking, and I don't think it's a healthy way to go through life (or to teach your kids to go through life.)


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## JollyGG

I do think it's a bit strange but not that alarming.

I think the strange part is, as others have mentioned, we don't typically deal with bathing if a child is here for a single night. Also probably having something to do with the fact that I don't enjoy sharing a single shower head with other people. Someone always ends up standing wet and cold waiting their turn.

But I have thrown my daughter and her cousin 5 and 6 into a bath together on multiple occasions if I thought they needed a bath. Bathing them separate wouldn't have occurred to me.

I was also in swim teams at the age of the OPs daughter. The normal routine of the entire team was to strip naked and shower after practice. The shower room was set up with several showers in the open in the middle and stalls lining the walls. I only remember one girl using the stalls everyone else showered with everyone else and then walked naked to their locker to get dressed. I think we'd spent so much time near naked (in swim suits) around each other that naked wasn't an issue. If I had gone to a sleepover at any of those girls houses that same lack of concern about nudity and privacy carried over.

I guess I just see Mom coming and going as making sure they weren't making a mess checking to see if they needed anything, ect.


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## ameliabedelia

I would have a big problem with that.

For one thing, a typical home shower is pretty small, and generally not meant to accommodate more than one person. Some 9-yo girls are tiny, but many that I know are approaching the size of a very tiny, petite woman (upper 4 foot ranger, 80-90 lbs). I would be really uncomfortable with my daughter being naked in a very small, enclosed space with 2 other naked girls. It's not just the nakedness, but the cramped quarters involved, which could make anyone feel pretty uncomfortable. I see it as being totally different from showering or changing in a locker room, which may or may not have curtains over the stalls, but DO have separate stall or showers for each person. Or, I would have not problem with a bunch of girls changing together in the bedroom, as long as everyone has adequate space to move around and change without bumping into other people, yk.

Plus, there is no way 3 girls could all fit under the spray at once, so they would need to take turns and someone would be left standing around cold/wet at the other end of the tub without the warm water hitting them full on to keep them warm.

Now, if this was a special shower or tub meant to accommodate more than 1 person, that would be different, but I'm assuming it's your typical, household shower/tub.


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## whatsnextmom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios. What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them." That's one (very extreme) way to imagine it. I imagined it more like this: The mom thinks it would be a good idea for the kids to take a shower. (Maybe they've been running around getting all sweaty.) Thinking about the amount of time and hot water it would take for 3 kids to shower one after the other, she suggests that they all just hop in the shower together. The girls happily agree and they go into the bathroom, undress, and start showering. A few times the mom sticks her head in to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on or to make sure they're all actually showering. She probably happens to see at least one naked body when she does, but she doesn't pay any particular attention to it.
> 
> Of course there are a hundred other ways to imagine what happened. We can imagine the girls are uncomfortable with the situation but afraid to say so. We can imagine the mom is a pedophile who is getting off on seeing naked girls. But why would we? Why does the worst possible explanation come so easily to mind for so many people? Lenore Skenazy (www.freerangekids.com) calls it "Worst-First" thinking, and I don't think it's a healthy way to go through life (or to teach your kids to go through life.)


Maybe it's my Girl Scout leader training, maybe it's just how I was raised to treat guests (namely, to allow them to always feel safe and comfortable,) but there are lines you don't cross with other people's children out of the realization that we are all a sum of different experiences. Personally, I had some pretty hairy experiences on sleep-overs growing up. My eldest has called me up from one party wanting to go home because of the behavior of the mother (who we knew for years and seemed quite normal working along side her at school... turns out, pretty unstable in her personal life.) We had issues in our Girl Scout troop where one mom (again, new her for years) invited some of the girls over and proceeded to photograph them playing in the paddle pool outside naked. I truly believe the mom was just clueless.. she saw them as babies (they were 8) and thought it was cute. However, the families of the girls involved were FURIOUS and not without cause.

Like I've said, I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" but it was certainly not a good idea!


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## beanma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> It's interesting the way we're all taking the bare outline of events presented in the OP and imagining the situation in different ways, and it's alarming to me that so many people are imagining worst-case scenarios. What was described was not "the parent telling the kids to strip and then looking at them."


I've got to agree with that. The OP's child wasn't even involved. She heard about this from the child's mom, who heard about it from the child, so we're hearing about it at least third hand. We really don't know exactly what happened nor how it was suggested. I think to demonize this sleep-over mom and say a call to CPS is warranted is over-stepping bounds. It's possible that something nefarious is going on, but it's just as possible that it was completely innocent.

My 8 year old absolutely loves going in the bathroom with her friends. I have no idea why. And they love to get into mischief in the bathroom. I could easily see a scenario where one of my dd's friends might suggest getting in a shower (and there's plenty of room in a tub/shower combo for 3 kids - my 2 shower together often enough, and I used to shower with them when they were littler and I'm bigger than the two of them put together) and the sleep-over mom would agree and then knowing what mischief my kids like to get into in the bathroom (writing on the mirrors with soap-and that's my 11 yr old-splashing around, and generally cutting up) I would expect the mom to poke her head in from time to time to make sure her bathroom wasn't being destroyed and everything was okay.

I mean, even if there wasn't nakedness and a running shower involved, if you had three kids over at your house and you heard lots of squealing and splashing and giggling going on in the bathroom, wouldn't you want to check to see what was going on?


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## beanma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> Personally, I had some pretty hairy experiences on sleep-overs growing up. My eldest has called me up from one party wanting to go home because of the behavior of the mother (who we knew for years and seemed quite normal working along side her at school... turns out, pretty unstable in her personal life.) We had issues in our Girl Scout troop where one mom (again, new her for years) invited some of the girls over and proceeded to photograph them playing in the paddle pool outside naked. I truly believe the mom was just clueless.. she saw them as babies (they were 8) and thought it was cute. However, the families of the girls involved were FURIOUS and not without cause.


Again, the friends that I let my kids spend the night with are good family friends. I haven't yet let my child spend the night with someone that I didn't know very, very well - more than a knew them for years at school or Scouts kinda thing. That time may come, but we're not there yet. When my kids have spent the night it's with families we've known for years and I have been to their homes countless times and they've been to my house many times as well. The moms are my friends as well. So that's coloring my responses. I could totally see this scenario happening at one of our friends houses and since I know the moms (and dads and kids) so well I would know it would be completely innocent. I think it would be unusual for them to need to shower together, but if they all ended up in a manure pile or fell down in a stinky mud puddle or something I could see a scenario where a shower would be needed and I would be totally fine with the mom checking in on my kids during the shower. I think the moms have all seen my kids naked before at the pool, etc.

In the situation outlined by whatsnextmom, I would not be happy about naked pictures at all, even if it was a case of thinking of them as babies, but that's harder for me to envision that than the got really smelly-dirty and needed a shower situation.

Just throwing this out there, but a couple of years ago, probably when my dd1 was about 9, we were invited over to a beginning of summer party at a friends' house (not a super close friend, but a good friend and we had been to parties there before) and they got out a kiddie pool or sprinkler. This wasn't planned ahead of time so the younger guests didn't have bathing suits. The mom is European, though, and she just encouraged the kids to get naked. Totally normal in her country of origin, but a little out of my comfort range since it was in the middle of the party with a mix of boys and girls playing and moms and dads all standing around outside chatting and looking on. I think my kids ended up stripping to their undies and playing.

We REALLY don't know very much about the actual situation here and I think jumping to hasty negative conclusions could have negative repercussions if someone were the type to take advice from strangers on the internet (me included). The OP's friend needs to consider the details of the situation (which we don't have and aren't likely to get) and how well she knows the sleep-over mom and her child. Maybe what needs to happen is the OP's friend needs to say to the sleep-over Mom, "I wasn't comfortable with the kids showering together. I'm concerned my dd might like more privacy and I'd rather her not shower at other's homes. I'll have her take a shower at home before she comes." Maybe it was totally out of line and she does need to take firmer action. Maybe her kid thought it was great and was telling her mom how much fun it was and she needs to chill out. Hard to say.


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## MrsGregory

I think the point that the sum total of our experience in life will greatly color the way this situation is seen is a good one. I don't recall exactly how old I was the last time it happened... it seems this arrangement ended at puberty... but I was chucked into plenty of tubs or showers with friends and told to clean myself up right and proper. And this did frequently involve the mother on duty coming back in prior to the shower ending and running the checklist of what had been cleaned, and supervising said cleaning if you copped to missing a spot. It was always same-sex, and always the mother supervising, and frankly, we were all, mother included, mainly innocent of the concept of sexual abuse. We came from a place where women and children didn't know much about that sort of thing, and didn't worry about it too much, as we were dutifully minded and cared for by our menfolk. Clearly this system has some glaring downsides, and I'm not defending this method of dealing with this aspect of a life in a society, but I can say that the mother standing in the bathroom, glaring down the group of prepubescent girls and demanding that we scrub ourselves correctly was not, in any way sexualizing us; she was just making damn sure she wasn't the mother that became (in)famous for sending the girls home dirty. And if it looked odd from the outside we had no idea, because we had never been introduced to the idea of sex abuse and appropriate nudity. Can you meet with this women and address your concerns, and listen to your gut? Could it be that she is completely unaware of how her behavior is being viewed?


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## Linda on the move

nm


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## whatsnextmom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beanma*
> 
> Again, the friends that I let my kids spend the night with are good family friends. I haven't yet let my child spend the night with someone that I didn't know very, very well - more than a knew them for years at school or Scouts kinda thing. That time may come, but we're not there yet. When my kids have spent the night it's with families we've known for years and I have been to their homes countless times and they've been to my house many times as well. The moms are my friends as well. So that's coloring my responses. I could totally see this scenario happening at one of our friends houses and since I know the moms (and dads and kids) so well I would know it would be completely innocent. I think it would be unusual for them to need to shower together, but if they all ended up in a manure pile or fell down in a stinky mud puddle or something I could see a scenario where a shower would be needed and I would be totally fine with the mom checking in on my kids during the shower. I think the moms have all seen my kids naked before at the pool, etc.
> 
> In the situation outlined by whatsnextmom, I would not be happy about naked pictures at all, even if it was a case of thinking of them as babies, but that's harder for me to envision that than the got really smelly-dirty and needed a shower situation.
> 
> Just throwing this out there, but a couple of years ago, probably when my dd1 was about 9, we were invited over to a beginning of summer party at a friends' house (not a super close friend, but a good friend and we had been to parties there before) and they got out a kiddie pool or sprinkler. This wasn't planned ahead of time so the younger guests didn't have bathing suits. The mom is European, though, and she just encouraged the kids to get naked. Totally normal in her country of origin, but a little out of my comfort range since it was in the middle of the party with a mix of boys and girls playing and moms and dads all standing around outside chatting and looking on. I think my kids ended up stripping to their undies and playing.
> 
> We REALLY don't know very much about the actual situation here and I think jumping to hasty negative conclusions could have negative repercussions if someone were the type to take advice from strangers on the internet (me included). The OP's friend needs to consider the details of the situation (which we don't have and aren't likely to get) and how well she knows the sleep-over mom and her child. Maybe what needs to happen is the OP's friend needs to say to the sleep-over Mom, "I wasn't comfortable with the kids showering together. I'm concerned my dd might like more privacy and I'd rather her not shower at other's homes. I'll have her take a shower at home before she comes." Maybe it was totally out of line and she does need to take firmer action. Maybe her kid thought it was great and was telling her mom how much fun it was and she needs to chill out. Hard to say.


Of course we don't know lol. The OP was just asking for opinions on how individuals would feel and those were shared. Then those who had any reservations were accused of being ridiculous shame monsters lol.

Whatever, I shared my position and it's been a wise one for us. On to the next topic.. geesh.


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## GoBecGo

I'm in the UK.

If my DD did not WANT to shower with others and had voiced that and had been told she must then i would have expected her to call me to be picked up. If she didn't mind i wouldn't mind. The mom popping her head round the door is not even on my radar. Kids of 9 mess about, waste shampoo, flood the floors, you name it. If it were in my house i'd pop my head in now and then to monitor things too. I am not a creepy abuser, i am just a tired mum who could do without a flooded kitchen to mop up and another 3 bottles of bathing products to replace.


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## mtiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> Of course we don't know lol. The OP was just asking for opinions on how individuals would feel and those were shared. Then those who had any reservations were accused of being ridiculous shame monsters lol.


I've read the entire thread, and I didn't see anyone being shamed... Just sayin'.


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## CatsCradle

I don't know, I learned a long time ago not to deal in the world of hypotheticals because it tends to bring out the worst in me. What I see in the original post is a bare-bones, non-witness (therefore hearsay) statement of what happened. A friend tells you that her second cousin saw your DH talking to an attractive lady on the bus and they got off at the same stop. What would you think? [insert every possible scenario here].

Three 9-year-old girls sharing a shower and mom popping in to check on them? I don't know, I need more facts before I can form an opinion. Mom "had them take a shower together." What were the circumstances surrounding that? We take showers at home together for water conservation purposes. I would imagine that if I had a gaggle of pre-teens who wanted to use my shower, taking it together would certainly be something that I suggest, since I'm stuck with the water bill. There are just so many ways to spin this. That being said, I wish I had been more sure of myself at that age to shower with other girls. I was incredibly ashamed of my body because it was inferred over and over again to me that it was something to be hidden. Not because it was so precious but because it was something negative. To this day, I am ashamed of my own body, and I wish things were different. Even in gym class throughout secondary school, I used to devise dressing and undressing in a way where no one saw any part of my body.

I say all this with the recognition that there are instances where children and others are abused and taken advantage of, and I'm not attempting to undermine that. But at the same time, I wish that I had been given the opportunity to celebrate my body, to feel confident in it and to not be ashamed of it. I would hope that before DD is in the "situation" that OP describes, that she knows all the appropriate responses, etc. It is my responsibility to first of all make sure she is in a situation where she is secure and knows how to handle the situation if it is out of the ordinary or uncomfortable.


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## mtiger

Going a bit off from the original post (which, I agree, was pretty pretty much hearsay - we don't know what the actual situation was...)... There can be a really fine line between modesty and shame. Should kids just prance around everywhere starkers? Of course not. But... the whole "no one should look at your body" line also concerns me. I was brought up with the whole "your body is private, no one should see it, etc." and I do think it's led me to be more self-conscious than is good. Funnily enough, it is my daughter who has taught me. She is modest when appropriate, but doesn't hide her body, either. It's hers, and she's happy with it. When her friends complain about their bodies, she tells them that they are beautiful the way they are and should celebrate that. Isn't that what we should want for all of our children? Especially our girls?

I'm not saying that anyone here is teaching their child to be ashamed of his/her body. But... realize that it can be a fine line. Many. many girls have body images - how do we, as parents, contribute to that?


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## CI Mama

What this thread is telling me is that I need to think long and hard about what friends will be invited over to our house for overnights, when my DD reaches the age when that happens (she's only 3 now). And think carefully about the circumstances under which she'll be allowed to stay over with her friends.

Children can come home, report what happened at the sleepover, and then have their words construed in a million different ways. Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


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## beanma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


That's what we do CI Mama. Works for us so far.


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## RStelle

My (girl) friends and I took baths and showers together all the time, went skinny dipping, went in the sauna together,we never thought that it could be weird. Actually I remember taking a bath with one of my male friends when I was 4 or 5, didn't think that was weird, either. Hippie parents, what can I say.

However, if the girls felt uncomfortable and like they were forced to take a shower together, and uncomfortable at the mom coming in, that would be a completely different situation and not appropriate. I couldn't tell from the post which one it was.


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## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> Children can come home, report what happened at the sleepover, and then have their words construed in a million different ways. Perhaps it's best to only do sleepovers with children of families that you know well, whose parents you have a trusting relationship with. That way if anything comes up in the post-sleepover "report", there's the opportunity to talk about it & work through any differences, and make adjustments for the next time.


That works for a while, but eventually you could end up saying "no" just because YOU don't know the parent. And is that fair to teenager? You can only go over to the people's houses for sleepovers if I know the mommy?

With a *child,* may be. but with a *teen,* it would IMHO, be overprotective and inappropriate. My younger DD has spent the night with people I barely knew but that she knew quite well. And kids have spent the night at our house that I couldn't have picked their parent out of a line up.


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## Virginia Mom

Hi Mommies. I posted the original post......so I guess it's time to close it............you've all been great about sharing...thank you. Everyone had insight on all levels (looking at nudity, modesty, privacy, home vs locker room, calling cps, sleep over rules, girls doing what moms did at their ages, etc etc). I appreciate everyone's time....and all the different opinions. Thanks.


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## lesleybrooks852

I wouldn't feel comfortable with the situation especially since they were naked and the mom was "checking on them...." Doesn't sound right to me. Anyways, I have 3 girls (aged 18, 13, and 9) and all of them (especially the younger 2) are developing faster than the "normal rate" so they would be self-conscious if showering in front of others. When my girls have friends over, showering and changing is done separately.


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