# 5 month old can't soothe self back to sleep...



## bass chick (Sep 7, 2005)

....ever!! his sleep cycle is 30-45 minutes long and he wakes up every single time. We cosleep. Most times he wakes up he nurses for 1-3 minutes or i find his pacifier and he drifts back to sleep as long as we are squished up together. If i move so i can get comfortable and get some space (like an inch away), he wakes up and screams. He is so loud when he cries/screams and it is disruptive to everyones sleep - including 2.5 year old.
I feel really depressed because I don't know how to help ds sleep.He would sleep the night away in his sling with me walking - step, bounce, step, bounce, step bounce.
He screams when I put him in the swing. He has to be held. He lived in his sling for the first 2 months, now i am regretting that!


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

dont regret wearing your baby.

how long has he been like this?

my son still needs tofeel my touch.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

MAybe I am wrong but that sounds like fairly typical 5 month old behavior. I wouldn't expect a child that age to be able to soothe themselves.


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## Lizseas (Nov 7, 2005)

This really is normal behavior for a 5 month old... doesn't feel like it when Mama is feeling overwhelmed and sleep deprived! Sounds like your new baby needs you a bit more than your first did, and that can "feel" like something is wrong. It happened to me too!

My second was (and still is) in constant motion, and needed ME and ME only for the first 18 months or so. I like to think of all of the responsive parenting and wearing that I did with her as "filling her cup"... I put in the time and effort when she was requesting and needing it, and now she doesn't need it as much anymore at all.

The more you are able to meet the baby's needs as they arise, the faster you can work through them IMO. The more you try to "make" them not be needy or less needy or just NOT whatever their unique personality is, the more of a battle you encounter, and the WORSE everyone feels.

Try to embrace the needs... this is really such a short time in their lives. This too will pass!

Thinking of you!


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## Shaki (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lizseas* 
This really is normal behavior for a 5 month old... doesn't feel like it when Mama is feeling overwhelmed and sleep deprived! Sounds like your new baby needs you a bit more than your first did, and that can "feel" like something is wrong. It happened to me too!

My second was (and still is) in constant motion, and needed ME and ME only for the first 18 months or so. I like to think of all of the responsive parenting and wearing that I did with her as "filling her cup"... I put in the time and effort when she was requesting and needing it, and now she doesn't need it as much anymore at all.

The more you are able to meet the baby's needs as they arise, the faster you can work through them IMO. The more you try to "make" them not be needy or less needy or just NOT whatever their unique personality is, the more of a battle you encounter, and the WORSE everyone feels.

Try to embrace the needs... this is really such a short time in their lives. This too will pass!

Thinking of you!









Wow! Well Said!


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## NC EcoMaMa (Jun 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shaki* 
Wow! Well Said!






























Very well said from here too. This is very normal. I think too many places online like BC and a few others make mothers feel like things are wrong because our babies are not behaving certain ways.
It passes very quickly. My girls are 23 and 20 and I have a new baby 15 months old. It is flying by so fast this time around because I have done it before and I feel like I am not getting enough baby time.

Enjoy it while you can, soon they won't want you to comfort them, and that feels much worse.

All that said, it is frustrating and tiring, take it one day, one hour, one minute at a time and it makes it so much easier. Your baby will feel your frustration and will get more grumpy because of it.

Hugs,

Jo


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

I feel really depressed because I don't know how to help ds sleep.He would sleep the night away in his sling with me walking - step, bounce, step, bounce, step bounce.
He screams when I put him in the swing. He has to be held. He lived in his sling for the first 2 months, now i am regretting that!
Please don't ever regret doing what you are _supposed_ to be doing!!! Would you have prefered NOT being close to him and meeting his needs? No way







It's not your job to make him sleep...it's your job to meet his needs, and right now, those very intense needs are for you. I promise I do understand how draining and hard it can be









Here is a link to a very important Mothering Magazine article by Dr. Paul Fleiss that I hope will help you feel better that you aren't doing something or have done anything wrong..here is an excerpt:

Quote:

*Expecting babies or young children to "self-soothe" is unreasonable. Responding to children's cries, comforting them, and trying to help them overcome whatever it is that is bothering them is not only effective, it is the only proper way to help them fall asleep.*
It usually helps me to put MYSELF in their place. Where would *I* want to be? In a swing? Hell no. Would I want to have access to mama's breast whenever *I* felt like I needed it and not when mama *thought* I *should* need it? I had a lot of growing to do when I had my 'high-nighttime-needs' baby.

I think maybe I was more fortunate in a way because my 'high-needs' baby came first. It did take me awhile until I really got that babies are babies and are NOT designed to self-soothe! Self-soothing is a myth and a lie







It's BabyTalk propaganda. Human babies need their mommies. Some much, much more than others. It's simple biology.

I did subsequently end up having a baby who at a certain age, would just roll on over after nursing and go back to sleep without needing to fall asleep at my breast, constantly attached, where my slightest movement woke him up...of course, when this happened with my second baby, I was like whoa! Call Ripleys









So, my advice to you would be: throw the self-soothing notion out the window


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## Lizseas (Nov 7, 2005)

Thanks for the applause Mamas! I learned from the BEST La Leche League Mamas out there... and I am happy to pass my "knowledge" on. I am now an LC and a Childbirth Educator... what I say to parents is: put the damn books and manuals down and respond to your babies! They DO come with operating instructions, and they are as UNIQUE as we are. No "shoulds" or "musts" or "have-to's"... just let them unfold in the way that they are biologically destined to... we can't force them to fit a rigid mold. Doesn't work, and everyone ends up feeling bad and incompetent and "less than" and like bad parents. Follow your Mama gut. YOU are the expert at your child, not the books and manuals and well-meaning relatives. Just YOU and your partner. Let medical diagnoses be for your Pedi... sleeping arrangements and child-rearing belong to YOU.









'Nuf said...


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## ipfree (Oct 4, 2006)

Yes I agree whole heartedly. I have a 9 month old and he needs me close to sleep. I've learned to sleep with pillows on my back (wedged in) so I can get more comfortable and not move so much. He is getting better, now. I think it is because he knows that I am there with him and not going anywhere. My belief is that it gives him the stability that he needs. A couple of times he has even stopped nursing, looked up at me and rolled over closer to Dad. So sweet.
And YES I know this time passes so quickly and later I won't be able to soothe my ds son's needs as quickly ... back to sleep.
Have you tried shifts with your dh so you can get a couple of hours of uniterrupted sleep? That's been magical for me to catch up on my sanity sleep.


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## bass chick (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aisraeltax* 
dont regret wearing your baby.

how long has he been like this?

my son still needs tofeel my touch.

He has basically been like this since the beginning. For the first couple months he slept on top of me.

When I say he can't soothe himself back to sleep, I don't intend to say that I think he should be able to soothe himself per se....I meant that I would expect him to feel me or smell me or sense me - that I am RIGHT THERE, and that I would have thought he would just fall back to sleep again. That's what I mean by soothing himself back to sleep.

But no....he cries, he digs his head into the mattress, he tosses, he sometimes nurses for a couple seconds, cries, nurses a bit more, cries, tosses, sucks on his pacifier, moves his head from side to side to side to side 3 or 4 dozen times...and this goes on for about 15 minutes out of every hour. And he's been like this for all his life short of a handful of nights that he has slept longer.
It's like he has some sort of restless body syndrome. Sometimes he goes for 2 sleep cycles and I get 1.5 hours of sleep at a stretch. Four or five times he has gone 2-3 hours, in which I know he woke up, but was able to get back to sleep without waking me up.
I'm not complaining about his night waking, I'm complaining that I have a hard time resettling him every time he wakes up, which is usually once an hour. And it is likely a vicious cycle, because I am feeling constantly anxious and stressed and he's probably picking up on that.

My first baby was so easy to get back to sleep. Just pop the boob in his mouth and he drifted off. This one seems to dislike breastfeeding. I know that sounds weird. It's just how it seems to me though. He is rarely comforted by the breast.


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## Barb36 (Mar 19, 2006)

I feel for you...sounds like you're doing an incredible job during this intensely challenging time.

I agree with what everyone has said, but the reality is that it can become completely overwhelming and depressing...and that's what I hear the OP saying. There is a certain amount of accepting the way things are, but there's also the reality that something might have to change.

I think that one of the pp's suggestions about having your partner take the baby for a stretch to give you a break is a great idea...especially if nursing isn't helping to soothe the baby and he isn't hungry. Do you think it's gas? Have you tried some of those OTC remedies (mylicon drops, I think and gripe water)? I never used them but I have friends who swear by them.

Hang in there...I know this has to be incredibly hard. I would try to share the load with your partner as much as possible. This will pass.


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## Lizseas (Nov 7, 2005)

Bass Chick:

Does your Mama gut indicate to you at all that your babe is in pain or discomfort? Your latest post reminds me SO much of a Mama I helped a few years back... very restless sleeper, had to be on Mom or upright...

Turned out that the baby had several cranio-sacral issues... needed some good treatment by a cranial-sacral specialist and/or chiropractor. Sometimes giving birth, whether vaginally or C/S can cause some mis-alignments that don't spontaneously work themselves out. Might be worth a consult. The babe I refer to improved DRAMATICALLY with the first adjustment, and is a happy, healthy, SLEEPING toddler now!

Just a thought!


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
MAybe I am wrong but that sounds like fairly typical 5 month old behavior. I wouldn't expect a child that age to be able to soothe themselves.

Not being able to self-soothe at 5 months is normal but I cannot agree that waking up after sleeping for only 35 to 40 minutes is normal. Sounds like your baby is just one of those people that wakes very easily.

Quote:

My first baby was so easy to get back to sleep. Just pop the boob in his mouth and he drifted off. This one seems to dislike breastfeeding. I know that sounds weird. It's just how it seems to me though. He is rarely comforted by the breast.
He may associate the breast only with satisfying hunger and he is simply not hungry. How is the pacifier working? Does he fall back to sleep with that in his mouth even when you are not right next to him?

Is there a comfort object that you could let him get used to so that you do not have to stay right beside him? My daughter has a thin white cotton muslin that she used to sleep on top of and eventually "adopted".


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lizseas* 
Bass Chick:

Does your Mama gut indicate to you at all that your babe is in pain or discomfort? Your latest post reminds me SO much of a Mama I helped a few years back... very restless sleeper, had to be on Mom or upright...

Turned out that the baby had several cranio-sacral issues... needed some good treatment by a cranial-sacral specialist and/or chiropractor. Sometimes giving birth, whether vaginally or C/S can cause some mis-alignments that don't spontaneously work themselves out. Might be worth a consult. The babe I refer to improved DRAMATICALLY with the first adjustment, and is a happy, healthy, SLEEPING toddler now!

Just a thought!

i second a chiropractor!! sounds like the babe is somewhat uncomfortable.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

Yeah, waking every sleep cycle is HARD. Been there, still doing that sometimes.

DD also loves to move to sleep (dratted walking during pregnancy...!)

I have also used a rocking chair with her in my arms and a pillow behind my head, and I learned to sleep like that...sigh. If you need movement.

But I do agree that waking every sleep cycle sounds like a very light sleeper (Ie: my daughter, or me). Or perhaps like discomfort. Something you're eating? Something physical? Early teething happens at this age, and I found that was when my dd started to wake more - long before the teeth actually popped.


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

My almost 5 month old is the same way. We have a crib mattress next to our mattress on the floor (wedged in by our bed, 2 walls, and pillows on the floor at the foot). He will go down initially in there, but after he wakes to feed the first time, he will not go back in there. He has to be right next to me. Usually he wakes every 2 hours or so, but some nights (like last night) it was every 45 mins. Once in a blue moon he'll do a 4 hour stretch or so--very rare now. He used to do 5-6 hours every night, but that ended after about 2.5 months. I guess this is normal for co-sleeping babies. I'm just going with it.

Edited to add:
Just remembered some advice I got on these forums that helped to some extent...make sure your baby is not cutting daytime feedings short due to being easily distracted and getting interested in other things. When I started concentrating on eliminating all distractions for daytime feedings, he took longer feedings and his night wakings decreased a little.


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## mimid (Dec 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bass chick* 
But no....he cries, he digs his head into the mattress, he tosses, he sometimes nurses for a couple seconds, cries, nurses a bit more, cries, tosses, sucks on his pacifier, moves his head from side to side to side to side 3 or 4 dozen times...and this goes on for about 15 minutes out of every hour. And he's been like this for all his life short of a handful of nights that he has slept longer.

[haven't read the posts past this one, so sorry if this has been covered]

My first reaction to reading this is that he sounds just like my Shira who has GERD. In the LWAB forum there are numerous threads about symptoms if you'd like to search. Also have you tried swaddling? DDs all needed some swaddling for a period.

GL!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

your baby sounds like he's uncomfortable, rather than just going thru sleep cycles. my dd1 slept fine (=wake 3-4 times/night, nurse, let go and sleep) until she was 4mos. then she had her second round of vax's which provoked allergies to numerous foods i ate. she was attached or awake all night long after that. as soon as i went on an elimination diet, she started to sleep well again.

i'd second the idea of investigating to see if there's something bothering him (allergies, GERD, etc.), and if craniosacral or other bodywork might help.


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## bass chick (Sep 7, 2005)

Hmmmm. I never thought about alignment issues or GERD or anything causing him pain. I don't think he is uncomfortable, but maybe he is. It is hard to tell because when he cries it is always so high pitched and usually screaming like he sounds like he's in pain. But often being held and sucking on the pacifier makes him happy, which makes me think that his cry is just very intense all the time and not the result of pain.


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## windpowered (Apr 13, 2006)

I just wanted to second the idea of checking for food sensitivities. My DD was a fuuuusssssyyyyy baby until I did an elimination diet. She was (I found out) sensitive to me eating dairy, soy and some vegetables (onions, broccoli, garlic...). I cut out those things, and she slept soooo much better. Eventually, I was able to reintroduce them and she was fine.

HTH

~Diane


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## Lizseas (Nov 7, 2005)

Check in with a GOOD lactation consultant... I work with a lot of Moms who have oversupply, or an over-abundant milk supply which can contribute to all of those "food-sensitivity-like" and "reflux-like" symptoms. I didn't hear you talking about these issues during the daytime. Does it happen then too? It seemed like it was only happening when the baby was in a prone position.


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