# 7 month old with no schedule or routine, HELP!



## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm just exhausted at this point. DD nurses to sleep for every nap and bedtime. I know, I'm not alone, right? It is just that we can't get into a pattern or bedtime routine. I know all about routines. DS had one every night and was asleep by 9 p.m. Not this baby. First of all, she doesn't typically get sleepy until at least 9 or 10p.m. It goes like this. I nurse her until she falls asleep. I put her in the crib. Ten minute later she wakes up crying. Repeat. Five minutes later crying. Repeat 5-10 times before she finally stays asleep. Last night it wasn't until 11p.m after she showed signs of being tired at 9 p.m. I've tried a routine, taking her in her room, reading her a story, etc. That only seems to wake her up more. It is frustrating because DH can't do anything. He has tried slinging her but now that she is older it doesn't help. Rocking her doesn't help. She won't take a pacifier, won't take a bottle. Nothing works but nursing her...and I wouldn't mind except that she keeps waking up and I know she isn't hungry. Sometimes she even spits up because she has had too much breast milk. I hate feeding her for comfort over and over because she won't sleep and she is overfilling her tummy, not to mention my breasts feel ready to fall off.

During the day she naps very little, 1-2 short less than thirty minute naps if I'm lucky. You would think this baby would be dead tired by the end of the day. I know mama is.







:

I have posted before about possible cosleeping. Last night after she still wouldn't sleep at 11 I brought her in the bed. Sure, she loves it but I can't get any sleep. She will suckle the entire time she is in the bed. If I take her off the breast she wakes up and gets upset. Is it good for her to be suckling all night long like that? I mean, I know that going to sleep with a bottle is bad for the teeth. What about BF'ing? Anyway, I guess that is the least of my concerns really but I want both of us to get some sleep. We can't sidecar because our bedroom is too small.

Any advice, experience aside from the whole "establish a bedtime routine" which we've tried and "cosleeping" as a be all end all because it isn't helping me get any sleep with a baby suckling at my breast all night long.


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## TridentineFan (Jul 13, 2007)

Ha ha! You and I posted our questions simultaneously. We'll have to watch each other's threads for ideas. My thread is: "7-1/2 mos. old: help consolidating sleep!"


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## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

I just replied to your thread too.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It's fine to nurse all night.

I would figure out a way to get you both comfortable. She needs to be in your bed at that age.

-Angela


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

She sounds like a typical 7 mo. If you decide to try co-sleeping, a little trick you can try when she is nursing is breast compression. My guy literally would never stop nursing until I found out about this, and when I started doing them, he would actually come off on his own.

Also, what about swaddling her? That also helped ds tremendously to stay asleep longer. A big part of him waking up is that he was waking himself up moving around and when I swaddled him, he would sleep for much longer stretches.

Let me find a link for the breast compressions, here you go:
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15bre...mpression.html


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## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

We live in Fl so swaddling this time of year is pretty dangerous.







We keep the thermostat around 82 to save energy, let's just put it that way. I'll check out the link for the breast compressions. Thanks.

Yeah, I'm just having a hard time with the cosleeping thing. This morning around 5 a.m I settled her into her crib and managed to get two hours of sleep in my bed that were just wonderful vs. the other five that were terrible because I was squished into the corner with her attached to my breast and unable to stretch out.


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## Nan'sMom (May 23, 2005)

I'd say cosleep and nap whenever you can. I had much the same situation with dd1 at first and my motto with sleep was to make up in quantity what I lacked in quality. The breast compression idea is good...try to fill her up a bit before bed. Then wait 10 minutes before you try to unlatch her and do it as quietly and gently as you can, breathe quietly, stay still for a few minutes and then slowly move away.

My dd2 is 18 months and no chance I'd get much sleep if she were in a crib. I sling-nurse her most nights to sleep, then when I'm ready, put her in bed lie down gently next to her, usually she wakes up enough to nurse, after 10 minutes or so, unlatch her. Then if she wants to nurse at night, I nurse her immediately and she falls back asleep after a few minutes.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
We live in Fl so swaddling this time of year is pretty dangerous.







We keep the thermostat around 82 to save energy, let's just put it that way. I'll check out the link for the breast compressions. Thanks.

Yeah, I'm just having a hard time with the cosleeping thing. This morning around 5 a.m I settled her into her crib and managed to get two hours of sleep in my bed that were just wonderful vs. the other five that were terrible because I was squished into the corner with her attached to my breast and unable to stretch out.

Well, I am pretty serious about my sleep, I would consider turning the thermostat down so I could swaddle(it really did help ds tremendously!). Also, in the summer( we didn't have ac when he was that age and it gets super humid in Minnesota in the summer) so I would use a cotton burping blanket.

But definitely check out the breast compression link, it really worked wonders for us!


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Do you have room in your bedroom to put her crib sidecar? It made our lives sooo much easier. Dd sounds much the same as you are describing your Dd. She would basically only sleep if somebody was touching her. If we put her down, or moved away from her in the bed, she'd waken instantly. It was actually fine to cosleep that way when she was an itty-bitty, but when she actually started to take up space, it was tight for mama (my dh takes up a lot of space when he sleeps, as well, so I am ALREADY wedged into a corner WITHOUT the extra body in bed with me). Putting the crib sidecar really gave us quite a bit extra space. She could still "touch" me, I could scoot her over when she FINALLY attained full sleep and have some space to myself for an hour or two, and could still roll over to nurse when she inevitably started snuffling and looking for the breast. So, you might consider making the room in your bedroom for side car. We ended up moving my dresser into her room and moving her crib into ours. Frankly it was the only way the VERY expensive crib was used for anything but a clothes hamper, so it worked out alright...







Of course, NOW it's opened up to the double bed and she sleeps in it for at least some of every night (she's five and LIKES her own space for some of the night now).

Too, we learned quickly with her to just forgoe the nighttime routine until I was ready for bed, or it took over the entire "mommy and daddy time" portion of our evening. I would huncker her down into the sling, nurse her to sleep, and then usually my dh would open his button up shirt and snuggle her onto his bare chest...usually that kept her alseep, even though she was in our "space" in the greatroom...she was sleeping and we could have some US time...and I could have an hour or two of personal space myself.

Soooo, you might just try keeping her with you until you're ready for bed. It sounds to me as if she may be like my dd in that she craves human touch and skin to skin contact. You might remind yourself during the most difficult "MOMMY NEEDS SOME OF HER SKIN TO HERSELF RIGHT NOW!!" moments (and I've had LOTS of those!







) that 1)this is such a short time in her life and yours, even if it lasts a year or two! and 2)that the touch and time you are giving her NOW will stay with her as she grows up into a much more secure and emotionally intelligent adult.

Looking at things long term sometimes made it easier for me to get through a day. My girlfriend had an exercise...she would take a tape measure and look at eighty inches (her approximate life span, as well as her child's), and then consider two inches out of that total of eighty. It made it easier for her to bear the thought of TWO YEARS of constantly being with her son...because really, in the long term outlook...it's ONLY two years, or three or whatever. Does that make sense? It can seem like SUCH a long time while we're there in it. Truth be told, though, I miss those late evenings with the three of us cuddled into the corner of the couch with her finally drooping her little eyelids down lower and lower and lower as we went about our couple time reading or watching the idiot box. I occaisionally wake up to her little bony knees poking me in the ribs or the back and roll over to think how nice it is to smell her sweet breath in my face again... and she's only five...it hasn't been that long since she has moved from the side car to her "big girl bed" by her own choice!


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

Try to get used to co-sleeping. It may be uncomfortable, but you'll probably get used to it. I go to the point where sometimes my babes would nurse all night and I'd just sleep right through it - especially when they started being able to lift up my shirt themselves. Much easier!


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## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtenay_e* 
Do you have room in your bedroom to put her crib sidecar? It made our lives sooo much easier. Dd sounds much the same as you are describing your Dd. She would basically only sleep if somebody was touching her. If we put her down, or moved away from her in the bed, she'd waken instantly. It was actually fine to cosleep that way when she was an itty-bitty, but when she actually started to take up space, it was tight for mama (my dh takes up a lot of space when he sleeps, as well, so I am ALREADY wedged into a corner WITHOUT the extra body in bed with me). Putting the crib sidecar really gave us quite a bit extra space. She could still "touch" me, I could scoot her over when she FINALLY attained full sleep and have some space to myself for an hour or two, and could still roll over to nurse when she inevitably started snuffling and looking for the breast. So, you might consider making the room in your bedroom for side car. We ended up moving my dresser into her room and moving her crib into ours. Frankly it was the only way the VERY expensive crib was used for anything but a clothes hamper, so it worked out alright...







Of course, NOW it's opened up to the double bed and she sleeps in it for at least some of every night (she's five and LIKES her own space for some of the night now).

Too, we learned quickly with her to just forgoe the nighttime routine until I was ready for bed, or it took over the entire "mommy and daddy time" portion of our evening. I would huncker her down into the sling, nurse her to sleep, and then usually my dh would open his button up shirt and snuggle her onto his bare chest...usually that kept her alseep, even though she was in our "space" in the greatroom...she was sleeping and we could have some US time...and I could have an hour or two of personal space myself.

Soooo, you might just try keeping her with you until you're ready for bed. It sounds to me as if she may be like my dd in that she craves human touch and skin to skin contact. You might remind yourself during the most difficult "MOMMY NEEDS SOME OF HER SKIN TO HERSELF RIGHT NOW!!" moments (and I've had LOTS of those!







) that 1)this is such a short time in her life and yours, even if it lasts a year or two! and 2)that the touch and time you are giving her NOW will stay with her as she grows up into a much more secure and emotionally intelligent adult.

Looking at things long term sometimes made it easier for me to get through a day. My girlfriend had an exercise...she would take a tape measure and look at eighty inches (her approximate life span, as well as her child's), and then consider two inches out of that total of eighty. It made it easier for her to bear the thought of TWO YEARS of constantly being with her son...because really, in the long term outlook...it's ONLY two years, or three or whatever. Does that make sense? It can seem like SUCH a long time while we're there in it. Truth be told, though, I miss those late evenings with the three of us cuddled into the corner of the couch with her finally drooping her little eyelids down lower and lower and lower as we went about our couple time reading or watching the idiot box. I occaisionally wake up to her little bony knees poking me in the ribs or the back and roll over to think how nice it is to smell her sweet breath in my face again... and she's only five...it hasn't been that long since she has moved from the side car to her "big girl bed" by her own choice!


We have no room to sidecar whatsoever, even if we move furniture around. Our bedroom is teeny tiny and so is hers. We will be moving in a few months so maybe that will change. I would love to have one of those bedside cosleepers (when and if I have the room to sidecar) but then I wonder if I'm just regressing when she is already out of her newborn phase and meeting so many milestones.

Omg, I know exactly what you mean about the baby bed routine swallowing adult time. It is terrible. That's why I gave up on taking her in her room because I could be in there for an hour you know while everyone else is hanging out in the living room. We already just let her nurse to sleep in the living room and then take her in the crib. I'm thinking that maybe it would be more peaceful to just do it in our bedroom instead and lie down with her. Sometimes I'm just so wound up that time of night with DS just getting to bed, the last thing I want to do is lie down in bed with a baby. I want to get my mama groove on with a glass of wine or some adult conversation.

I know it is such a short time. I just crave some sort of rhythm or pattern that we could stick to instead of thinking she is asleep, starting something, um, sex, anyone?, and then having her cry five minutes later. It just seems like we aren't doing things efficiently in regards to spending adult time together at night.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Could she be overtired from so little day sleep? Is there anything that you can do to make her day sleeps longer, or give her more of them?

When my baby was doing the short naps she'd be tired again an hour later. She literally had five or six naps a day for a while.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Well, yes, I tried the going to bed in MY bed deal w/dd as well, but as soon as I GOT UP she'd wake up. Which is why we finally just brought her out with us where we were and let her fall asleep there. It made things more relaxed to realize that that WAS the routine. We'd turn the lights down low, often make popcorn or have some ice cream, and cuddle together. When she was finally good and asleep, rather than moving her to a bed, we'd just move her to dh's chest, and she'd stay asleep. Voila! Grownup time! As far as sex...we reevaluated when we could DO that. We ended up doing a lot of the middle of the night stuff, or very early morning, before dh got up for work...because those were the times that dd was least likely to wake up.

Something else I found helpful was to choose a side of the bed that made me feel as if I had more room...I chose, until we put the crib side car, to sleep against the wall, with dd between me and dh. Then I had an extra six inches or so, because I didn't have to worry about falling out of bed! It's like free space...


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Oh, and as far as naps go, for us, she always slept better if she was touching one of us, so I'd put her in a sling and do my thing all day and she'd nap when she napped...and when she was being worn she'd sleep consistently an hour or more, and when not, fifteen or twenty minutes, tops a half hour. I learned that I actually got MORE done by wearing her, because she slept longer, and thus was happier when she was awake.


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

The best thing I ever did was just let go of expectations. It IS just a short time. It doesn't last long at all in retrospect. If you need to sacrifice your nights for a while, just know there is an end in the future. That really helped me. Lying in bed drove me crazy, too, because you're WAITING and expecting. The idea of just bringing her to do whatever you're doing is a good one, although if she's gotten used to quieter situations it may be difficult.

Any kind of routine for a babe isn't going to work, IMO. They are changing too much. Just relax.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

That is so funny, I have been thinking about this A LOT with my almost 6 mo. ds. Sometimes I too feel like he has "no routine" and it makes me feel both exasperated and like I am a terrible mommy! I feel so like I am so lazy b/c rather than devote the hours of 7 - 10 to a futile effort to get him down y himself, we just chill out and then all go to bed together. So I guess we have totally disregarded the whole early bedtime thing! As for the suckling all night, I finally got to where I can remove the beloved booby - but I am there holding him and sneaking away hardly ever works. Luckily we feel ok about co-sleeping for now. But even then I can't even go to the bathroom without him waking up and freaking out.

But it is SO, SO frustrating to never have that adult time, I totally agree! And even when ds is down by himself alone, we are on eggshells b/c it never lasts! And we aren't really doing even that anymore b/c he is too big and mobile to be in our bed alone and forget about the crib aka our extra laundry hamper! Anyway, I wish I had more helpful advice other than to tell you that you're not alone. Oh, say maybe you could try putting the crib mattress on the floor and laying down to nurse in dd's room, and then doing the sneak? Who knows, maybe you'll get 30 or even 45 minutes!


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## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

Jess, that cracks me up about the walking on eggshells thing because we do the same thing. We live in tiny house so the rooms are pretty close together and we tiptoe. It's terrible. I also feel lazy sometimes for not being more rigid about establishing a routine. I did with my son but he was so much easier than this little one.

Keja, you are so right about accepting things the way they are and not hurrying. I was really good at doing that when she was a newborn. I had to, I mean you know how grueling that constant BFin'g is. I just find myself losing a little patience now that the months have gone by and getting antsy. I've got to get over it I know, because you are right.


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## lovelou (Jul 6, 2007)

I'm in sort of the same boat as you. My 7 1/2 month old will wake after 10 minutes or half hour and so on. I do have a routine which has helped enormously with getting him prepared for bed, but he still wakes up every 2-3 hours or so.

I finally put a mattress on the floor and nurse to sleep and then sneak into bed. I was miserable before and getting no sleep; I was crying during the day from exhaustion and my arm was falling asleep and my back and neck were always hurting from strange sleeping positions.

I think he is accustomed to nursing back to sleep even though he's not hungry and that's why he cries. When he was younger we had him in a cradle in our room (until he outgrew it) and he slept 8 hours straight. After we started co-sleeping he wakes more frequently.

Pantley's book suggests detaching him from the nipple when he's drowsy and keep repeating if he fusses too much. This is supposed to get him used to not depending upon nursing as a cue to fall asleep.

I'm still struggling with the waking because I have to get out of bed now, but oh, it's so worth it to get 2 or 3 hours of physically comfortable sleep at a stretch.


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## srbushey (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keja* 
The best thing I ever did was just let go of expectations. It IS just a short time. It doesn't last long at all in retrospect. If you need to sacrifice your nights for a while, just know there is an end in the future. That really helped me. Lying in bed drove me crazy, too, because you're WAITING and expecting. The idea of just bringing her to do whatever you're doing is a good one, although if she's gotten used to quieter situations it may be difficult.

Any kind of routine for a babe isn't going to work, IMO. They are changing too much. Just relax.

So true! Sometimes I think my little one can "sense" if I'm planning to get up after she's gone to sleep and she won't let me go. So if I mentally pretend this is bedtime for me too, she ends up drifting off, as if there's some sort of unspoken communication that it's okay to relax, mommy's here... then I sneak away when she unlatches by herself. (I'm going to have to experiment more with the compression thing too, b/c she wants to eat 24/7 it seems!)

I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the use of white noise or perfect silence. Both work at times for my baby. Even though I'm up north, we're having a toasty, humid summer so I often have the window fan running in the Bedroom to cool the house down with the night air and on those nights, she seems to drift off easier--provided I make sure she's swaddled/dressed enough not to get chilled.

Speaking of swaddling, I know what you mean about not wanting to overheat her, could you try using a thin cotton wrap? Sometimes I also prop my baby with part of the blanket or a pillow on her side so she feels swaddled a bit and her arms don't fall as she relaxes and wake her. The overheating would be the biggest concern for me if I were in your case, but hopefully I've given you some ideas.

My dd has a characteristically irregular schedule for a 3 mo old, I think, comparing with what I've read about some other mom's experiences here. I guess just enjoy it because once we're used to it, they'll be sleeping on their own and we'll miss it. Best wishes for having more time to yourself!


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

We were in the same boat with our ten month old until about eight months. We co-sleep so life is easy. he nurses before all sleeping. He hardly naps, But he does have a good bedtime routine. We start with a little wash up around 7:30. (We only bathe 1-2 times a week). Then we do 20 minutes of reading with Dh. Then I nurse him down with one breast and turn on the sleep sheep in-utero sound and we repea t he cycle every 3-4 hours. I sleep with him and Dh sleeps on the sofa. He does wel withand stay in bed until 8 or 9 in the am. It only took four days to get him on this routine. As the days get shorter is getting tired earlier so I move it up a minute or two every couple of nights.


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## JenLiz (Sep 17, 2006)

i'm tired of nursing all night too..and dd (she's 6 months) not being able to fall asleep unassisted. I think both of these take practice, they need to be learned JUST like she learned to fall asleep in the carseat without crying... and according to Pantley, after 4 months they should be able to...

Oh, and she also is still being swaddled, which I'm really wanting to stop too.

I know using Dr. Jay Gordon's approach for a baby younger than 1 year isn't mainstream on MDC, but I'm modifying it, and as a parent I will judge whether she is ready. If she is not, I will delay. But, I know I'm ready to get more then 2 hours of sleep at a time.







:

So, i drafted a "plan" for me to refer to. I'll share it with you.

*Goal (age)*
Settle down/fall asleep w/o swaddle (6 mos)
*Solution(s)*
Practice

*Goal (age)*
Able to fall asleep unassisted (7 mos)
*Solution(s)*
Use Pantley Pull Off Method as necessary and Practice [http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/ ]
Consistently use bed time routine: Lights down, Bath, Books, Bouncy ball and Hair Dryer (as a signal) and Nurse
Naptime: Lights down, Book, Bouncy Ball and Hair Dryer, Nurse

*Goal (age)*
Reduce # of night wakings to ~ 2 (from 4-5)
*Solution(s)*
Start a modified (and extended) personalized method similar to Dr. Jay Gordon's night weaning consolidated sleep from midnight - 5 AM (at 7 mos) [ http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp ]
then, consildated sleep from 11-6 (at 10 mos)
Turn off night light, leave on very dim one

*Goal (age)*
Sleep on occasion in crib (naps and early eve) (8 mos)
*Solution(s)*
Practice by using No Cry Sleep Solutions, including getting IN crib to side lie nurse (-;

GOOD LUCK!


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution? I'm following that and doing the Pantley Pull Off, and although we have only been doing it for a few days... we're already from waking up every 45 min to waking every 90 min, which is a big improvement. It's really worth a try IMO. Co-sleeping is wonderful, but it's not for everyone, and you can find a solution without it if you need to.

ETA I should've read that post above me before I posted. But I second the recommendation. I'm going to check out the Jay Gordon stuff too!


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## pixiewytch (Feb 7, 2007)

I guess I'm really lazy because I just don't get into these scheduled sleep training type of things, not that I'm putting them down







but I'm not a regimen kind of person.

I think we've reached a point of no return. I have taken DD into our bed the past three nights, tried to take her into the crib after she is sound asleep, only to have her awaken and cry less than thirty minutes later. I'm not thrilled about it. I'm still petrified one of us will roll over on her, suffocate her, injure her with flailing extremities, who knows....I didn't plan for this and I'm still kind of disappointed but I've reached the conclusion that she is not comfortable in her crib all night and I guess I have to support that. I'm sure I will be starting more threads as i fumble my way through as a cosleeper novice.


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