# Green Living Tribe - Part II



## snozzberry

*Update:* MDC now has a Living Green forum!

3 months and almost 1600 posts after Eli's_mommy started the first Green Living Tribe thread, we're overdue for a new thread!

I'll keep this first post updated with links (like the list started by noorhajan) and other helpful info.

*Welcome!*
If you try to live *green*, you've found the right tribe! Feel free to post questions, rants, success stories--anything!

If you'd like to make a pledge to work on certain areas, check out the Green Living Challenge.

A special thanks to *Eli's_mommy* for starting the first ever Green Living Tribe thread!

Tribe History:
Part I


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## MamaRabbit

Subscribing!!!


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## adventuregirl

ooooo, very nice, thanks for the fresh start!

I have a question, when you have compact flourescent bulbs, does it use more energy to turn them on and off? I have heard the argument that leaving them on uses less and this doesn't make any sense to me.


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adventuregirl* 
I have a question, when you have compact flourescent bulbs, does it use more energy to turn them on and off? I have heard the argument that leaving them on uses less and this doesn't make any sense to me.

The Washington Post had an article with a good explanation:

Quote:

If you turn the lamp off for only a few seconds you'll still save more energy than it takes to start the lamp again. An energy study by the University of Oregon says that many people developed the habit of leaving lights on when fluorescents first came into use in the 1950s. But modern fluorescents are more durable and efficient than they were then, and save energy long term...


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## kimberlychapman

The Mythbusters recently demonstrated that you're better off turning the lights off, of any kind. Of all of the bulbs they tested (incandescent, compact fluoros, LEDs, etc.), the one that had the biggest power surge is still best turned off unless you're going to be back in the room within I think it was 26 seconds.

They even tested turning them off and on thousands of times to see if doing so shortened the lifespan of the bulb. It didn't.

So turn the lights off unless you're literally stepping in and out of the room within a few seconds.

My turn for a question...I'm going to be buying a new computer soon. I've read and been informed at the store (by a trusted salesperson who happens to also be a good friend) that the new Core 2 Duos use less power. My husband said he read that while chip manufacturers used to ignore power usage, all of a sudden they're coming on board (mostly from a cost perspective...it's expensive to run lots of computers in a big company) and basing the new chipsets on laptop models which of course are better with power because of the need to not suck batteries dry too fast.

Anyway, I'm considering the Core 2 Duo over the mostly equivalent Athlon for this lower power usage reason. But another friend online is now telling me that the chipset doesn't matter, only what the power supply sucks in regardless of whether or not the chip uses it. However, I've also read that Core 2 Duo machines can come with a smaller power supply so they pull in less since less is needed (unless you have a mega-video card and I won't).

Do any of you have any expertise in this area? What would you say is the "greenest" computer choice right now?

I'm also considering replacing my horrible old 15" monitor with a 17" LCD one because I've read that the LCD ones are also better on power. Comments?


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
I'm also considering replacing my horrible old 15" monitor with a 17" LCD one because I've read that the LCD ones are also better on power. Comments?

I don't know about the processor issue, but LCD screens definitely use less power than typical monitors. Also, they emit less radiation.

Quote:

Flat-panel monitors use less energy (22 watts when left on, 3.3 watts in "sleep" mode) than regular monitors (75 watts when left on, 5 watts in "sleep" mode), McCall says.
I was wondering with the new lead requirements for European markets if we'd see less lead used in computers and their peripherals (keyboard, mouse, etc). If I find out that's the case, I would buy a new computer in a heartbeat and sell/donate my current one! Have any of you heard about the lead issue in regards to computers?

p.s. That was my 500th post!


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## calicocj

subbing!

re: the computers, this doesn't answer the question that was asked about the chipsets, but an interesting project with some usage comparisons:
http://computing.fs.cornell.edu/fsit...ainability.cfm

We're trying to initiate something like this at work, but it is so hard, people love to leave their computers on at night!

The same is true w/ computers as with light bulbs - if you aren't using them, turn them off!


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## corwinegall

Look into getting a Mac, they're usually ahead of the game on these things. They're not perfect, but they seem to be on top of it. And now that they have the intel chips, you can probably run your pc programs if you have something you need for work.

Lisa


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## greenkids

Thanks for the new thread. I joined WAAAAAYYYY back when this thread first started.







:

Anyway, my DD is turning 2 next month. I have been trying to find a company that is eco friendly for party supplies. Does anyone know of anything? I would like to have a green party for her without taking away from her birthday. Also, what could I do about all that wrapping paper?!??! It's SO wastful. Do you all think it would be rude to request recyclible wrapping paper. Maybe suggest news paper or paper bags?


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## ladywolf

You may want to do some research on the Macs. I remember reading that there are issues but I cannot remember what! I do know I love our laptop.


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## WonderMa

I don't know if this has been covered, but it was news to me that you need to find the right recycling facilities for the flourescent bulbs because they contain mercury. Jeez.. now I have to check where I saw that because I can't remember now, but I was really glad to find out before I've had to change out any.


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WonderMa* 
I don't know if this has been covered, but it was news to me that you need to find the right recycling facilities for the flourescent bulbs because they contain mercury. Jeez.. now I have to check where I saw that because I can't remember now, but I was really glad to find out before I've had to change out any.

This is for the most part true. By federal law, you (as a household) are not usually *required* to find special disposal or recycle them, because the amount of mercury generated is so small. But some state and local regulations do outlaw throwing them away. (I'm not saying this to advocate landfilling them, just to say that shouldn't discourage you from using them if you absolutely can't recycle them)

even though the CFs do contain mercury, the amount they contain is less than what would otherwise be produced by burning coal to power an equivalent incandescent bulb (from a life cycle perspective)
so it is a beneficial tradeoff...









However, it is best to recycle them if possible, here is a good site to look up places in your zip code that take a wide variety of wastes: http://www.earth911.org/master.asp

This is true for a lot of things not just CFLs - paint, cleaners, antifreeze, etc... (supposed to be recycled or disposed properly rather than throwing away with MSW)


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## eco_mama

Good to see a new thread....finally!

greenkids - i suggest using cloth napkins and if you're planning on using paper plates or something, seventh generation carries some of those products i think. for wrapping paper you could recycle a paper bag and maybe decorate it? or if you have any gift bags saved (i have tons from over the years) you could reuse one.







have fun!


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## kimberlychapman

Thanks for the computer articles! I'm going to read them and send them to my husband as well.

If I could find a system that had a shorter bootup time, I'd turn mine off whenever I leave the room since I'm not likely to get back to it for at least a few hours. But right now when I get computer time I can't wait for the several minutes it takes to boot...especially with this old hunk'o'junk having to be rebooted several times per session because it's so old that the browser chokes regularly and brings on the BSOD.

So I do the power-down thing, but not fully off. I'm hoping the newer models will let me turn it off more regularly and require fewer bootups...my husband read today that with efficient power supplies, bootup takes up the vast majority of energy uses so in some of those cases you're better off leaving it on but in a power-saver mode, rather than booting up every time. It's so hard to know what to do in each case, isn't it?

As for Macs...my husband is a Mac zealot and I know there are some things about them that I'd like, but I've evaluated this option and it's not right for me.

Party stuff: I'd totally ask for recyclable/reusable gift wrap. Heck, get the gift-givers to get some cheap newsprint and paint it themselves...creative, cheap, and recyclable! The newsprint itself could even possibly be recycled stock to begin with, if you can find it.

My husband and I only use gift bags but this past Christmas we let our toddler rip up some paper...but it was remnants from before I saw the light and stopped buying the stuff, and half of it had been re-used several times already. And I put it in the recycling because I think some of it should be recyclable, at least...none of it was the foil kind and I made sure all ribbons/bows/tape was removed.


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## lilylove

subbing


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## lilylove

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WonderMa* 
I don't know if this has been covered, but it was news to me that you need to find the right recycling facilities for the flourescent bulbs because they contain mercury. Jeez.. now I have to check where I saw that because I can't remember now, but I was really glad to find out before I've had to change out any.

I posted a link about this on the other thread. Living on Earth had a piece on NPR about it a couple weeks ago. Here


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## snozzberry

For the party, could you send the invitations out using comics from the newspaper or some other repurposed paper and ask guests to use it (the invitation itself) to wrap their gifts? Maybe that wouldn't be enough paper though. So maybe on the invitation, you could give silly ideas for wrapping gifts, kind of how Target puts silly ideas for reusing its plastic bags on the side of the plastic bags?

Or you could say there will be a prize for most creatively wrapped-in-reused-paper gift. That way it could be a fun aspect of the party!


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## adventuregirl

Thanks for the info on turning off the lights, settles the dispute here, and perhaps will get my in-laws to turn off the dang lights!

For the recycling of flourescents, save your receipts and boxes (or POP) and return for the warranty (typically 10 years). This may not always be an option, but for future purchases, don't forget this step, you'll get a free replacement, and the company will recycle your bulb. I sent one in and got two bulbs back. I wonder if you could even send a bulb back to the company for recycling if there are no recycling options in your area...?

I like the birthday party ideas, especially a contest for the most creative *recycled* wrapping. I may steal that idea. You could say on the invite that the theme, or part of the theme is *green* or *zero waste* or something and ask people to reuse or recycle to help out in their wrapping choices.


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adventuregirl* 
I like the birthday party ideas, especially a contest for the most creative *recycled* wrapping. I may steal that idea. You could say on the invite that the theme, or part of the theme is *green* or *zero waste* or something and ask people to reuse or recycle to help out in their wrapping choices.

That sounds like a fun party to me!


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## calicocj

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/.../mytopic=10070

this gives a good rule of thumb - if not using your computer for more than 20 minutes, then turn the monitor off; if not using for more than 2 hours, then turn the CPU off

But I agree about the time it takes, especially w/ older models so sometimes I leave mine on too...

another frustrating thing is that for work, I work part time and do some working from home, but in order for me to remote desktop into my work computer and our network, I have to leave my computer at work turned on







: although I do turn the monitor off. I keep asking our tech support folks to come up w/ a better way!


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
another frustrating thing is that for work, I work part time and do some working from home, but in order for me to remote desktop into my work computer and our network, I have to leave my computer at work turned on







: although I do turn the monitor off. I keep asking our tech support folks to come up w/ a better way!

I'm in the same situation. There is a way to remotely wake up a machine, but I don't know exactly how. It has something to do with setting something in the remote computer's BIOS. I think it's called "Wakeup On Lan" or WOL? Maybe you could mention that to your tech support folks and they would know what that is or at least be able to research it? I haven't approached our support group yet...


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/.../mytopic=10070

this gives a good rule of thumb - if not using your computer for more than 20 minutes, then turn the monitor off; if not using for more than 2 hours, then turn the CPU off

But I agree about the time it takes, especially w/ older models so sometimes I leave mine on too...

another frustrating thing is that for work, I work part time and do some working from home, but in order for me to remote desktop into my work computer and our network, I have to leave my computer at work turned on







: although I do turn the monitor off. I keep asking our tech support folks to come up w/ a better way!


Yeah, I've got this one to turn the monitor off after 10 minutes and the hard disks after 20. That's all this Win98 Dell will do...it won't do the "hibernate" thing newer models can where it truly powers off but comes back with your desktop exactly as you left it, with everything saved and all of that.

But even then, if any of these things are left plugged in we know that they're still consuming something. So technically we should all be turning it all off and unplugging it, including the power bar! But when I get a quick baby break I just don't have time to wait for it all to come on. Bummer.

And I totally understand remote access...our personal machines have the power-down thing going but the servers are 24x7, as is the DVR. If we power them down, we'd have no music or TV (except for live TV and who watches that anymore, especially with kids who'll see the ads?). All of our hundreds of CDs are on our MP3 server (note: all within fair use, we do not steal music), and I serve up playlists for my daughter through the day.

Of course, NONE of this would have a carbon footprint if we could afford solar panels. Nevada Power does a rebate up to $15,000 but I read up on it and we'd need the $25,000 system to be totally on solar, and we don't have that upfront or even the $10,000 difference...and that's only if we get chosen for the rebate because not eveyrone who applies does, since it's limited. The state should be subsidizing the panels so every roof has them!

At least Nevada Power is putting up Nevada Solar One soon, which allegedlly will make our consumption the greenest percentage in the country. About frickin' time.

I've got links but baby's up gotta run....


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## Eli's_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
3 months and almost 1600 posts after Eli's_mommy started the first Green Living Tribe thread, we're overdue for a new thread!

I'll keep this first post updated with links (like the list started by noorhajan) and other helpful info.

*Welcome!*
If you try to live *green*, you've found the right tribe! Feel free to post questions, rants, success stories--anything!

If you'd like to make a pledge to work on certain areas, check out the Green Living Challenge.

A special thanks to *Eli's_mommy* for starting the first ever Green Living Tribe thread!

Tribe History:
Part I


Thank you!!!!









Still trying to be as green as I can. I've really been on hiatus from the lovely tribe for sometime...I finally got a house (I know I mentioned that once before), and I can focus more on making my entire life green!

I'm going to start by better insulating my home. It's pretty old and could definately use weatherstripping and more insulation in the attic (and double pane windows for that matter!)

I encourage all of you to check out my best friends' blog- she has a ton of green living resources listed in her linkys, not to mention, she herself is in construction and interior design and has a ton of great and spectacular ideas!!!!!


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## babymakesthree

thanks for the new thread.. the other one was daunting!


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## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eli's_mommy* 
Thank you!!!!









I encourage all of you to check out my best friends' blog- she has a ton of green living resources listed in her linkys, not to mention, she herself is in construction and interior design and has a ton of great and spectacular ideas!!!!!

Where is her blog?


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## echospiritwarrior

YEah! Thanks for starting us fresh again! I was having a hard time with the sheer size of the last one!







: I have this paper due tomorrow for my political geography course that I've had soooooo much fun writing... I'd like to share if anyone wants to read:

Here's the assignment:

Geography 4321

In this essay, respond to this quote thinking about what Leopold means and how it relates to your life.

"We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect." ~Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

I would like you to craft a response in three parts. First, explain what Leopold means? How is land a commodity, and is his sentiment that 'we do not respect and love our land' accurate? Perhaps you might want to define "we." Second, what consumption or lifestyle practices lead to your commodification of land and territory? Explain how you as an individual might be part of the problem. In the third part, think about ways in which you might think about your relationship with land as part of your community and how you might be more careful about your practices in the future. What will you do or change about yourself to take a more progressive view towards improving environmental health?

And here's what I've got so far:

Exercise III- Aldo Leopold & the Land Ethic

"We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect." -Aldo Leopold, A Sand County Almanac

In the above statement Aldo Leopold is explaining that it is our perspective of land that is causing an imbalanced relationship with it. Leopold is referring to the American commercial perspective of land as commodity; an item of value that can be traded, bought or sold. Aldo begs that we view land as a "community" not a "commodity". Land is commodified not only by sale and purchase but also through objectivity that it has inherent worth of value. The perspective of land as having implicit value leads consequentially such activities such as mining, timber extraction, intensive grazing and monoculture. These activities are intrinsic to American commerce in Aldo's day as well as today. In the sixty years since the publication of A Sand County Almanac and hence this quotation there is yet to be a philosophical shift in the general American public, the above statement is as pertinent and relevant now as it was then. We, average Americans, do not love and respect the land.
Despite the fact that I consider myself to be an environmentalist I also participate in this philosophy perhaps as a result of living under the "American rule" of capitalism and consumption. I "own" my own portion of the land when I made the purchase of my condominium. Notwithstanding the grounds beneath and encompassing our building are community owned by our HOA we none the less "own" the property and are responsible for maintenance, adherence to city code and regulation and are subject to violations of such. It would be difficult to argue that I am any less responsible for commodification than the average homeowner or even oil speculator because philosophically the foundation of possession remains the same.
Admitting I own real property though fundamentally not the picture of the "community" ethic as Leopold may imply does not inherently mean I am absent to his ideals and philosophy. On the contrary I find it quite healthy to be able to care for family in a culturally accepted way, for although my family enjoys squatting on Federal Forest land for a short duration on a yearly basis (for the Annual Gathering of the Rainbow Family of Living Light) this is not acceptable nor necessarily Leopold's idea for "healthy land" use for true communal living to take place an extended basis. However having participated in the Gathering of 25,000 and upward fashioning our own sanitation system and water supplies is quite impressive and encompasses a true need for people, land and biota to be perceived as a single community (closest perhaps to the philosophy to the land ethic one might find in the present culture) I doubt that a return to nomadic living on a full time basis is a viable or attractive solution.
I do share Aldo Leopold's convictions and I do my part as a steward of the land to promote a positive and loving view of our one and only planet in numerous ways. The majority of the produce my family consumes is grown about a mile from our home in San Marcos, TX at the community gardens. Every bit of vegetable matter and that is not consumed in our household is turned back into soil via the compost bin we created in our small flower garden. As each of our conventional light bulbs expires (the ones that came with the purchase of our home) we replace them with compact fluorescent light bulbs, and of course turn them off when not necessary. We have recently replaced our antiquated washing machine with a high efficiency front-loading model (and in only one month have had an eighty dollar saving on our electricity alone)! We are also in process of remodeling our master bathroom in which the old commode will be replaced with a more water savvy one as well as consideration taken to consider the longevity and durability of the products we choose for our new powder room. It has been a priority for us to replace the appliances that squander the most water even though we pay a flat rate for water through our HOA, this is likely an uncommon perspective.
Many of my parenting choices are also made with consideration of the big Mother (Earth). We chose to have our daughter at home with a midwife (and her assistant) in attendance and as is our plan for our next little one underway. A home birth (two women and one small bag of equipment coming to your home) entails a fraction of energy and resources when compared the massive infrastructure of the hospital. I also exclusively breastfed my daughter until she was ready for solid foods which I then made for her. Breastfeeding does not require any additional packaging, advertising and transport and so is the best choice for one following the philosophy of the land ethic. There are many, many more ways in which my family attempts to live lightly on the land. The important thing is that green living is our philosophy and part of our everyday life. I like to think when my fellow friends and neighbors see me pull up the bicycle rack and pull my daughter and cloth bags out of the Doodlebug bicycle trailer at the grocery store I am showing the world that things can be done in ways other than the conventional. I know I've made an impact on my friends in such a way and I'm sure my children will eventually learn the strange and wasteful ways of the world when they begin to associate more and more with peers. In the meantime I find myself quite satisfied with navigating through the obstacles of compassionate living while sustaining my family in a material world.

I'm just going to close it with ways I try and do my part. That's why I went back to refer to my original post here at the GLT. I welcome any constructive criticism. English was not my first language so I tend to have issues with structure and wordiness! If you made it to the end thatnks for reading!


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## babymakesthree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *echospiritwarrior* 
English was not my first language so I tend to have issues with structure and wordiness! If you made it to the end thatnks for reading!

















for english not being your 1st language...wow. I was reading that thinking it sounded very well put together and thought out.


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## echospiritwarrior

Thanks BMT!









I just edited so you could read the end part... that's the best part if you ask me. My major is geography with an empasis in resource and environmental studies and I find it exciting to pull my passions and philosopy into a class like political geography (and history and the others)!


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## Eli's_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
Where is her blog?

Please excuse me- I'm slowly losing my mind!









http://newhaydens.blogspot.com/

She's got some cool posts (some related to green living, some not...), but the links off to the left have great resources. She is in interior design and her husband owns a construction business and they're both into green design. If you have any questions, I'm sure she wouldn't mind if you posted them on her blog. She had spectacular ideas!


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## ladywolf

The nytimes.com has an article about a family trying to live with no/little impact for a year:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/garden/22impact.html

It is interesting how much of this we do!


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## corwinegall

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladywolf* 
The nytimes.com has an article about a family trying to live with no/little impact for a year:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/garden/22impact.html

It is interesting how much of this we do!










Very inspiring and cheers for them for pushing through it, esp living in the city. We too already do a lot, and are heading more and more in that direction, I would say that my family is probably already half way there... thigh-high income draining boots are not a part of my wardrobe and no one delivers us coffee in the morning







.

One thought, and not really a critique but more a thought, they both wouldn't have their well paying jobs if there wasn't a carbon hogging infrastructure to deliver their books and magazines...trucks and printers and paper...I wonder what steps could be taken beyond their home to reduce the impact, could they both survive by going online? I'm not harping on them for not being perfect







, just wondering how far they could take the no impact.


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## turnipmama

Totally off topic....does anyone have any good natural body wash recipes?
I posted under mindful home management but didn't get much response, but I did get one recipe. I am just hoping for more options just to try different things for fun. Any essential oils I should avoid being pregnant?


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## RaRa7

turnipmama-
don't have any recipes for you but definately avoid peppermint eo.


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## quantumleap

turnipmama - this recipe was on the board a long time ago (not sure what the recipe you were already given was):
1/2 cup grounds from freshly brewed coffee
-1 cup turbinado sugar
-1/4 cup olive oil
-1 T vanilla
-15 drops of peppermint eo
Mix everything, keeps about 1 week at room temperature, longer in the fridge
I would think you could just cut out the peppermint eo, or sub with something else that appeals to you.

Angelica, Anise, Bay, Basil, Carrot Seed, Chamomile, Celery Seed, Clary Sage, Fennel, Rose, Peppermint, Thyme, Frankensence, Hyssop, Myrrh, Marjoram, Juniper and Jasmine were recently on a list my midwifery professor passed around as potentially harmful during pregnancy (from Churchill Livingston, 2002). The list also included Lavendar though, which I have always known to be one of the safest during pregnancy. So, take all this with a grain of salt.









Katia


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## ashleyca

subbing


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## spiderdust

Have you guys seen the blog of the girl who has challenged herself to live plastic-free for a year? She's been running into issues that I wouldn't have even considered, such as -- do you realize how difficult it can be in some areas to find tofu that doesn't use plastic packaging?

http://plasticfree.blogspot.com/


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## kimberlychapman

I was poking around for a cheap source of reusable bags for shopping and I found this:

http://cheaptotes.com/canvas_tote_bag_8.html

Is there a catch? What am I missing? Because that price seems too good to be true....

And did you see this? More reasons to love IKEA...

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...31088920070222


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## spiderdust

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
I was poking around for a cheap source of reusable bags for shopping and I found this:

http://cheaptotes.com/canvas_tote_bag_8.html

Is there a catch? What am I missing? Because that price seems too good to be true....

I'm guessing that the bags are fairly thin. I have a couple of cloth bags made of really thin fabric that I got for free from something or other. They don't hold up terribly well, but they can be used a lot more often than one of those awful plastic grocery bags. You could probably make the same quality tote bag for less with an old sheet.

Personally, I'd spend a little more money and get the sturdier bags. You'll get more for your money that way.

Quote:

And did you see this? More reasons to love IKEA...

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...31088920070222
Yay, IKEA!


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## adventuregirl

turnipmama - baking soda is a nice, simple, easy body wash (and shampoo for that matter). I try not to use much more than water and the baking soda for places that need a scrub. It preserves your natural oils so you don't have to replace them with lotions, etc.

On the bag tip, aren't the plastic ones you get at the store horribly inferior when you are used to bringing your own (when somehow your bags didn't make it to the store with you) ? I saw a pattern for crocheting (or was it knitting) your own reusable bags out of old plastic ones. A great way to re-USE those old ones that tend to build up in your house even if you are very good about bringing your own bags.

Oh and did you see this: http://earthhour.smh.com.au/ I know its in Australia, but has anyone heard of a US version? I suppose we could do it here anyway....


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adventuregirl* 
Oh and did you see this: http://earthhour.smh.com.au/ I know its in Australia, but has anyone heard of a US version? I suppose we could do it here anyway....

cool! I'd be in - would you post something over in activism and mindful home management (since it is cutting energy bills).. too? Do you have any ideas for what we propose people do? Here is what the website says-

SIGN UP TO EARTH HOUR and commit to turning off your lights on 31 March from 7.30pm to 8.30pm. It's free!

GET OFF STANDBY Unplug any appliances - mobile phone charger, TV, microwave, MP3 player - that are not being used and are on standby. Appliances left on standby account for up to 10% of the average household's electricity use.

SPREAD THE WORD about Earth Hour by involving your friends and family. Encourage them to sign-up turn off their lights at 7.30pm Saturday 31 March 2007.


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## beanma

hey y'all! thanks for the new thread. just subbing...


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## beanma

sooooo...

talk to me again about green lunchbox options. i know the little laptop lunchbox -- is that the name -- is cute and all, but isn't it still plastic? i was using wax paper bags for awhile, but felt guilty throwing them away. i switched to plastic containers from the mainstream grocery store, but worry about them. if i were to go to metal it has to not be too heavy because my 6 yr old has to be able to carry it and easy open...

thoughts?


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## ladywolf

metal lunchbox options







:

http://www.to-goware.com/
http://store.sundogoutfitter.com/Sho...d/0/rid/123105

I am very tempted by both but have not decided if either will be what I really need. I use a thermal lunch bag and old containers with my own sliver ware and napkins.


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## AuntRayRay

Always looking how to live greener







Can't wait to join the Green Challenge for April









RayRay~


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## corwinegall

I have a few to-gowares. Dh and I use them. My only complaint is that they aren't as versatile as I'd hoped. They'd be great for snacks if you set them out, but to open and close them all the time is a pain because there's a lot to do, it all has to stack correctly and has that outside thing holding it together, you can't just take off the top and grab something. Not to mention during summer outings I think the metal would get hot and warm up the food.

I don't use it for ds at school because it doesn't hold a lot of little things easily, which he likes in his lunch. I could use my fabric produce bags to keep the raisins from sticking to the sliced apples, but that's one more thing for him to have to make sure not to lose the way he spreads it all out. I know the laptop lunch is plastic, but it's a lot easier for a kid to use and better than throwing away bags. I'm hoping mine will last through both of my kids.

I don't mean to sound all down on them, they're great for salads (when we have access to a fridge), sandwiches etc for me and dh. And when ds gets older and is out of the finger food, he'll probably use it more.


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## beanma

yeah, i don't think the to-g-wares and similar would work for my 6 yr old. they might work for some 6 yr olds, but i don't think mine would dig it so much. we do have a nice reusable lunch bag it's just the insides i'm searching for. right now we've got some rubbermaid containers that work okay and the lids are flexible enough that she can get them off herself without too much frustration, but i worry about the plaastic leaching. tell me about the laptop lunches and the lidless containers? don't things spill? i can just see a buncha cheddar bunnies hopping all over the place...


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## adventuregirl

I got one of these for dd, and LOVE it http://www.reusablebags.com/store/mi...ugs-p-413.html I mostly stuff it with small glass jars and use Wrap-n-mats for sandwiches.


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## flowers

Hi y'all!









I definitely belong here. Always looking for ways to be more green...actually pretty obsessed with it.

Beanma, we run our car off of waste veggie oil. We do have to start it on diesel and would love to put biodeisel in the tank for those times, but there is nothing near us right now. What kind of car do you guys drive?


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## corwinegall

It all fits so snug that you don't need lids. One does come with a lid for anything liquidy that you might have. And it comes with a smaller lidded container for salad dressing or dip.

adventuregirl - Glass jars - are you worried that they'll break? I can see ds putting his hand in a bag not realizing something broke. If you have a solution I'd love to hear it, dh likes to pack up an apple and a granola bar in a cloth produce bag for lunch, it'd be nice to send along some yogurt or something.

Lisa


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## snozzberry

Have you guys heard about Step It Up 2007?

Quote:

This April 14th, tens of thousands of Americans will gather all across the country at meaningful, iconic places to call for action on climate change. We will hike, bike, climb, walk, swim, kayak, canoe, or simply sit or stand with banners of our call to action: *Step It Up Congress! Cut carbon 80% by 2050.*
You can search for an action in your area or if there isn't one yet, start one!


----------



## beanma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
Beanma, we run our car off of waste veggie oil. We do have to start it on diesel and would love to put biodeisel in the tank for those times, but there is nothing near us right now. What kind of car do you guys drive?

we drive a VW Golf TDI and a VW Golf Jetta. my dh actually has an old diesel Toyota Landcruiser FJ40 (but the diesels aren't FJs and i can't remember what they were -- BJs?) with a newer diesel engine that he wants to convert to grease, but that's a project that he hasn't gotten around to yet. right now he's interested in beekeeping!

as for the lunchbox/lunch bag, we have something like this -- http://www.reusablebags.com/store/co...nts-p-432.html , but in a rainbow otter print. i'm plenty happy with the bag it's just the what goes inside that's got me stumped. i can't seem to get my head around using glass, but if there was a metal option that dd1 could work that would be great.

thanks for the clarification on the laptop lunches. that makes sense now. do they have a place for a cold pack?


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Have you guys heard about Step It Up 2007?You can search for an action in your area or if there isn't one yet, start one!

Yes! There's an action right here on campus where I work...

In fact, there is a a whole month of activities going on here around Earth Day - this week, several student groups have organized a "Pass the Passion" campaign to raise awareness on environmental and recycling issues and on monday, Al Gore is giving his presentation (I'm supposed to get to go through work, so I am so excited!!!)

This is one of those times I'm glad to work on a campus, there is so much energy among students on environmental issues.


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## corwinegall

I think the laptop lunch comes with a cold pack, I've got one floating around here.


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
In fact, there is a a whole month of activities going on here around Earth Day - this week, several student groups have organized a "Pass the Passion" campaign to raise awareness on environmental and recycling issues and on monday, Al Gore is giving his presentation (I'm supposed to get to go through work, so I am so excited!!!)

Wow, that's so cool! Let us know how it goes...


----------



## flowers

Speaking of Earth Day, I just got an email that we are going to have a nurse-out on the Boston Common. Isn't that so cool! Since it is on a Sunday the whole family will be able to go!


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## quelindo

I wrote a post about this here, but does anyone know if you can use straight rainwater for laundry? I could rig up a rain barrel just outside the basement window above our washer, feeding a hose through with a nozzle that can be turned on and off.

But I don't know if the water would be harboring bacteria that would be harmful. I would only use it for the first wash of cold (the final rinse would be regular tap water) and not at all for loads on hot.

I'm excited about this idea but I can't seem to find any idea for using straight rainwater (everything I've googled talks about rainwater harvesting _systems_).


----------



## melissa17s

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I wrote a post about this here, but does anyone know if you can use straight rainwater for laundry? I could rig up a rain barrel just outside the basement window above our washer, feeding a hose through with a nozzle that can be turned on and off.

But I don't know if the water would be harboring bacteria that would be harmful. I would only use it for the first wash of cold (the final rinse would be regular tap water) and not at all for loads on hot.

I'm excited about this idea but I can't seem to find any idea for using straight rainwater (everything I've googled talks about rainwater harvesting _systems_).

This may not help, but have you researched possible uses for "greywater" because you may be able to do similar things with the rain water? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greywater


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## Eli's_mommy

Wow! I can't believe I haven't seen anything posted about the plastic bag ban in San Francisco!!! If you don't bring a recyclable plastic bag to the grocery store, they charge you! Love it! That would certainly help me remember to bring mine!!!!!


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## RidentMama

I can always use more ideas for living a greener life...subbing.


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## MrsMike

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eli's_mommy* 
Wow! I can't believe I haven't seen anything posted about the plastic bag ban in San Francisco!!! If you don't bring a recyclable plastic bag to the grocery store, they charge you! Love it! That would certainly help me remember to bring mine!!!!!

I just logged on to post about it! Isn't it so exciting? I hope the rest of the country follows.


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I wrote a post about this here, but does anyone know if you can use straight rainwater for laundry? I could rig up a rain barrel just outside the basement window above our washer, feeding a hose through with a nozzle that can be turned on and off.

But I don't know if the water would be harboring bacteria that would be harmful. I would only use it for the first wash of cold (the final rinse would be regular tap water) and not at all for loads on hot.

I'm excited about this idea but I can't seem to find any idea for using straight rainwater (everything I've googled talks about rainwater harvesting _systems_).

sounds like a good idea! From a microbial perspective, I think that if you're not storing the water for extended periods and you're using a "clean" collection/tubing system then you wouldn't have growth. I'm not sure I'd drink it, but should be fine for washing clothes. Although if you have to store it for a while to get enough to wash with, then I think you'd' have to start considering microbial growth (fungal as well as bacterial since rainwater is slightly on the acidic side) If you live in a very polluted area, e.g. a city w/ a lot of smog, then rainwater is going to pick up stuff like that. I think what you're describing sounds more like a cistern, so you may want to do some searches on that...


----------



## nora--not a llama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
as for the lunchbox/lunch bag, we have something like this -- http://www.reusablebags.com/store/co...nts-p-432.html , but in a rainbow otter print. i'm plenty happy with the bag it's just the what goes inside that's got me stumped. i can't seem to get my head around using glass, but if there was a metal option that dd1 could work that would be great.

What about this??

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/si...rge-p-235.html

That one is a large size, but they also come in a smaller size.


----------



## flowers

What about those metal lunch tins that click on top top of each other and make up a 3 or 5 container lunch box? Has anyone else seen these? You could definitely put yogurt, or anything in them.


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## cheygirl

Hi folks! What a fantastic thread. I'm subbing!


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## beanma

nora, i've thought of theose sigg containers, but i'm not sure of the sizes. i think they might be too big for some of what i have in mind. right now i'm just using rubbermaid take-a-longs in various sizes. i need some small containers for a few strawberries and another for cheddar bunnies and then something bigger for a sandwich and maybe some carrots. don't want to mix the crackers in there or then they get not-crunchy if downright soggy. i'm afraid the big metal lunch tins (tiffins?) would be too hard for my 6 yr old to work and not beautiful enough either. the lanptop lunch is not really floating my boat. i saw one in action today and it was okay, but i fear that my dog would chew up the plastic lid and then i'd be lidless for those little containers. i do appreciate that they say they tried to use plastic that has less bad stuff in it, though. wonder if there are any little metal containers with plastic lids like spice containers or something. plastic lids wouldn't be my first choice, but it might work...


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## nora--not a llama

I just found this, beanma......

http://www.freundcontainer.com/produ...22-8_A_cn_E_60

There's a lot of different stuff on this site.....


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
sounds like a good idea! From a microbial perspective, I think that if you're not storing the water for extended periods and you're using a "clean" collection/tubing system then you wouldn't have growth. I'm not sure I'd drink it, but should be fine for washing clothes. Although if you have to store it for a while to get enough to wash with, then I think you'd' have to start considering microbial growth (fungal as well as bacterial since rainwater is slightly on the acidic side) If you live in a very polluted area, e.g. a city w/ a lot of smog, then rainwater is going to pick up stuff like that. I think what you're describing sounds more like a cistern, so you may want to do some searches on that...

I think I'm going to pass on this idea, though I was really excited about it at first. Maybe I'll concentrate on collecting the reverse osmosis wastewater and using that for washing clothes.


----------



## mum2be

Okay, here's a weird question...

I have such bad eczema on my hands that I can't put them in water (other than quick rinses after bathroom use). Showering is definitely out unless I wear gloves. So I react to the latex ones (nothing major, just makes my eczema worse), and a couple of other kinds. The only ones I don't react to are nitrile ones. I use them 3 times until they start getting to the point where they are no longer waterproof. I HATE the fact that I am creating so much waste by doing this. Does anyone have any idea of a reusable glove that fits tightly on your hand to keep my hands dry? I thought of dish washing gloves, but they are so bulky and stiff and I already have a hard enough time trying to tell if the conditioner is out of my hair when I can't really feel it!

Okay, I know that was such a weird question, but I thought I'd ask









Also, we are getting ready to paint the inside of our house. We are planning on using AFM Safecoat paint. Has anyone tried it? I'm wondering how well it covers and if we'll need multiple applications...

And what is the deal with the lining on the inside of the Sigg bottles? I've read conflicting things, but one consistent thing I've read is that if it is damaged somehow, it can leach stuff into the drink. But how exactly is it damaged?


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
And what is the deal with the lining on the inside of the Sigg bottles? I've read conflicting things, but one consistent thing I've read is that if it is damaged somehow, it can leach stuff into the drink. But how exactly is it damaged?

I'm not sure about if it's damaged, but Sigg bottles were cleared of their ties to Bisphenol-A.


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## adventuregirl

About glass jars in the lunch bag, my dd doesn't carry her own, I keep it in our backpack, so its pretty protected from breakage, and I'm usually the one who gets the snacks out, so I have no brilliant ideas. But there are some great stainless containers out there: http://www.reusablebags.com/store/st...all-p-531.html

On the SF bag ban, that ROCKS! I got one of my re-useables from Ireland when my mom visited there, she bought it b/c she would be charged for every bag every time she shopped (not a big re-user here, but I'm working on her!). I would be thrilled to see this happen country-wide, does anyone know what we can do to help it along?


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## EnviroBecca

Try Pyrex or Corningware containers. Pyrex is glass designed to withstand high temperatures, so it's less breakable than regular glass. Corningware is ceramic and also very hard to break. The lids are flexible plastic similar to the ones on plastic containers, but at least it's less plastic touching your food. (There are also ones with Pyrex lids that have a knob on top; if you choose a rectangular container rather than a round one, you can use an elastic band around the knob, around the container, then back around the knob to hold the lid on. This is what I do with my larger containers when taking them to potlucks.) The only downside is that they're kind of heavy.

I carry my juice for my lunch at work in glass bottles that came from Tropicana juices 4 years ago. (I believe they now use plastic bottles only.) I just wash them over and over again. I used this same style of bottle for my juice when I was in first grade, so it's been 5 years total, and I've only ever broken one of them, when I dropped my metal lunchbox on the sidewalk. After that my mom started wrapping the bottle in a cloth napkin (and then I didn't need to use a paper napkin at school!), and as an adult I use a cloth insulated bag.

For over a year when my son was smaller, we packed his lunch for childcare in reused glass baby-food jars. He also has a cloth insulated bag, but the jars clanked together inside it, and none of them ever broke. This is despite my occasionally smacking the bag into something as I struggled onto and off of public transit carrying a baby and a bunch of gear!









So I think glass is a fine type of container, except for a child who tends to be really rough with the lunchbox/bag.

We have some random utensils that don't match our set, which we pack with lunches. I also pack a cloth napkin and put it in the wash once a week, or sooner if it gets really messy.


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## KimProbable

:

Subbing! I'll write more when my family isn't dragging me outside!


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## zen-ozz

subbing . . . so glad to be here!!!!


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## sweetirishCT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Have you guys heard about Step It Up 2007?You can search for an action in your area or if there isn't one yet, start one!

I am SOOOO going!! YAY!! I have always wanted to do some peaceful activism... So, DD and I will be spending the day at the Marina with other tree-huggers!! Fun Fun!









Too bad she is weaned, I could have done some first-hand bf'ing advocacy!


----------



## sweetirishCT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eli's_mommy* 
Wow! I can't believe I haven't seen anything posted about the plastic bag ban in San Francisco!!! If you don't bring a recyclable plastic bag to the grocery store, they charge you! Love it! That would certainly help me remember to bring mine!!!!!

I heard that Whole Foods is going to do the same thing... I wish we had something like that in this area... *sigh*
If I was charged for the plastic, I might ACTUALLY remember to bring in my great reusable bags! (rather than leaving them at home all the time...)


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetirishCT* 
I heard that Whole Foods is going to do the same thing... I wish we had something like that in this area... *sigh*
If I was charged for the plastic, I might ACTUALLY remember to bring in my great reusable bags! (rather than leaving them at home all the time...)

Really?! Cool!!!

Did you read that online somewhere? Do you remember where? I'm off to search and see if I can find it...


----------



## Manonash

Thanks for all the cookware info about the cast iron.

WooHoo SF!!!! Although, I would probably get charged a few times. I just can't seem to remember to take my canvas bag with me. I'm gonna get some of the chico bags I think. My local HFS has started carrying them -- buy 4 get one free!

Anyone watch some of the documentaries on Link TV? Like Out of the Box and such? I just found that channel and it has been on my dish all along.


----------



## sweetirishCT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Really?! Cool!!!

Did you read that online somewhere? Do you remember where? I'm off to search and see if I can find it...









not sure where i heard it... sorry...


----------



## koru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I think I'm going to pass on this idea, though I was really excited about it at first. Maybe I'll concentrate on collecting the reverse osmosis wastewater and using that for washing clothes.

i haven't been around lately but still sneak a peak for some ideas every once in a while....

i really like this idea of using the RO waste water! how do you go about doing this, though? it could probably be used to water plants, too, eh?


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulalove* 
i haven't been around lately but still sneak a peak for some ideas every once in a while....

i really like this idea of using the RO waste water! how do you go about doing this, though? it could probably be used to water plants, too, eh?

I set up a rain barrel in the basement and have the wastewater line feed into it. It's kind of putzy right now because I have to use the spigot on the rain barrel to fill a bucket, and then dump the bucket of water into the washer. And of course one bucket does not fill a washing machine.

I think if I had the rain barrel raised up higher I might be able to use a hose instead, but then the line for the RO wastewater would have to be higher than the RO unit itself, and I'm worried about the water flowing back into the system, if that makes any sense. Sorry, I'm really tired.

Anyway, I just started doing this today so we'll see how well it works.


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## KimProbable

I just wanted to post that I saw these guys on Canada AM today. I didn't catch the whole thing, but there's a form on their site that you can print off and bring in to your retailer. There's also a little calculator on the page which allows you to calculate how many plastic bags you'd be saving in a year if you had reusable bags. 1000 bags for my family alone in one year. Yikes!

I have my own bags but I'm still not used to them. They're often left in the trunk.


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## EnviroBecca

I noticed yesterday that Giant Eagle, the major supermarket chain in this area, is now selling reusable bags for 99c.


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## calicocj

I am so excited







:

I'm going to see Al Gore and his Inconvenient Truth presentation tonite!!!

Woo Hoo! I just wanted to share here, since yall would understand how excited I am...

My office is helping put the event on and so we were able to get tickets (the general seating ones sold out in like an hour), and I can finally get excited bc my boss promised they wouldn't take our tickets away at the last minute to give to the big wigs attending (my biggest fear)









I hope it is good!


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
I am so excited







:

I'm going to see Al Gore and his Inconvenient Truth presentation tonite!!!



Wow! Good for you! That is going to be so rad! Live it up for us and share afterwards!


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## Keeta

Subbing!







:


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## Eli's_mommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
I am so excited







:

I'm going to see Al Gore and his Inconvenient Truth presentation tonite!!!

Woo Hoo! I just wanted to share here, since yall would understand how excited I am...

My office is helping put the event on and so we were able to get tickets (the general seating ones sold out in like an hour), and I can finally get excited bc my boss promised they wouldn't take our tickets away at the last minute to give to the big wigs attending (my biggest fear)









I hope it is good!

Have an awesome time! That'll be really cool.

So you guys. I hate my diva cup. I finally broke down and bought one and I don't like it







It makes my cramps about 10 times worse. Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## eco_mama

Just wanted to announce that we bought our first "human" powered lawn mower today!!







We love it! It works great!


----------



## Keeta

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eco_mama* 
Just wanted to announce that we bought our first "human" powered lawn mower today!!







We love it! It works great!

We have one, too, that we love! One piece of advice: keep your blades sharpened! This makes the difference of loving life or wanting to set your yard on fire.


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Keeta* 
We have one, too, that we love! One piece of advice: keep your blades sharpened! This makes the difference of loving life or wanting to set your yard on fire.

















k. and what do you use to sharpen them?


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## calicocj

I just wanted to report back -

Al Gore was amazing, even more so in person than in the movie! His presentation had some updated items and he made jokes and told funny stories all the way through... I have to say, he is very very funny!

OT - He is also thinner in person than on tv, and I guess the saying about the camera adding 10 pounds is true









It was very good and there was a lot of energy in the crowd and a lot of students held rallies and events before the talk...

Anyways, if you have an opportunity to see him do the presentation, DEFINITELY GO!!!


----------



## flowers

Wow! Great to hear. I am so glad to had a great time.


----------



## Cajunmomma

Joining the tribe! Is anyone having a wee bit of trouble with a partner who doesn't see quite as much need for green?


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## lilylove

Yes, my dh is not nearly as green as I am. I do all the work involved in being green. Like laundering our cloth products, composting, finding ways to reduce our electricity and gas consumption etc..... He goes along with most of it. He does get annoyed with some things though. He really doesn't understand why I won't buy paper plates and cups or other disposable products.


----------



## RaRa7

Hey mamas-
not sure if this fits here but this is where I lurk EVERY day and feel comfortable!







(if you have advice on where to x-post that would be helpful)
So-
We have had well water since we bought this house. We recently had to pay $1300 to get access to public water(the entire town did) However, we haven't "hooked up" to it yet. We still pay $45 every 2 months but don't use it.
Anyway, they are saying we now MUST hook up. Granted the well water isn't the best (we do have a great filter though) as we have a nuclear power plant nearby as well as ADM (one of the world's largest agricultural processors of soybeans, corn, wheat and cocoa. peee-yew!) and a munitions dump.
SO my question to you all is this:
Which water do you think is better??????????????????????????Should we fight this?


----------



## corwinegall

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilylove* 
Yes, my dh is not nearly as green as I am. I do all the work involved in being green. Like laundering our cloth products, composting, finding ways to reduce our electricity and gas consumption etc..... He goes along with most of it. He does get annoyed with some things though. He really doesn't understand why I won't buy paper plates and cups or other disposable products.

dp is all good and green (except he plays electric guitar







) My mom is another story...we built a full apartment for my mom, so she's here but has her own household. One day she asked me if ds had seen "An Inconvenient Truth" and went on about how important it is for him to see it... then two minutes later starts talking about how she's starting to use paper plates and forks because she's tired of doing dishes.







: I think she's lost it.

Lisa


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## kimberlychapman

I'm way behind in computing, especially here, so I think I've missed stuff but no time to go back right now...

Lawnmowers: we've had a no-power push one as long as we've owned the house. We decided it was stupid to get a powered one for such a tiny lawn (because what the heck is anyone doing with a big lawn in Vegas anyway, during a drought?). But it was hard to find!

We're ultra-bad about sharpening...as in, we haven't yet, and we've had it for five years. So it still works fine, but it'd probably be less effort if sharper.

I do have the sharpening attachment for my Dremmel. Just no time to figure out how to use it. But that's one option, if you know someone with a Dremmel tool.

Here's what I really came to post today...info on tax goodies for green stuff:

http://www.sierraclub.org/greentaxes/

Oh, and in that discussion of not wanting to turn the computer off, I ended up feeling guilty, wondering if I was making excuses like SUV drivers do, so although we still can't turn off the server or the DVR, I've started shutting off my computer every night. I run out to turn it back on before doing morning bathroom activities, so it's booted by the time I can get there anyway. We'll see what kind of power impact there'll be on the next bill. Oh, and I'm shutting off the monitor entirely when not using it during the day, but I still have the CPU on because I have my ebay pages all open for quick checks through the day. The drives do power-down, though. And I've ordered a new computer that will have far superior power-down capabilities, not to mention an efficient power supply and the lower-power Core 2 Duo. So we'll see how that affects things...


----------



## kellid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cajunmomma* 
Joining the tribe! Is anyone having a wee bit of trouble with a partner who doesn't see quite as much need for green?

I've been lurking forever trying to learn, but the bit I do, my dh undoes in 2 seconds. I'm the one that does all the cleaning and he doesn't complain until he sees I might have made the product and then all of a sudden he questions how clean things are.







: I've been cloth-ing on the sly too, but I think he's on to me. Only because I had to tell him so we wouldn't have any more fights over "who didn't change the tp roll when they were done"...........hmmmm, that would be YOU. He said, "that is sooo gross".







It does make it hard, I don't mind the extra work, it's the mental weight of not being on the same page that gets heavy. So I will keep lurking and keep trying.


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## ladywolf

Yahoo!!! I am getting to commute to work on my bicycle!! I am getting to commute to work on my bicycle!!! (and my husband has been taking his motorcyle instead of his truck!!)


----------



## lilylove

I am putting together a fact sheet for a discussion topic on green living for a mother's group meeting. I thought I would post what I have to share, and hopefully if anyone has any facts that I could add they could let me know







: I would really like to add facts on the enviromental effects of conventional/factory farming. I would like to provide information from easily identified sources.









Here is what I got so far...........

Quote:

Why Live Green?

In 2005, U.S. residents, businesses, and institutions produced more than 245 million tons of garbage. That's roughly 4.5 pounds of garbage per person per day. EPA

At about 35 percent, paper and paperboard products constitute the largest portion of the garbage. EPA

Nearly 25 percent of the garbage is compostable material. EPA

The U.S. releases approximately 144 metric tons of mercury to the air every year. EPA

10 percent of American women - roughly 7 million women - already have so much mercury in their blood that if they became pregnant, it would pose a threat to the developing fetus. CDC

Coal fired power plants currently emit 68,000 pounds of mercury a year. EPA

In many urban areas, motor vehicles are the single largest contributor to ground-level ozone, a major component of smog. Ground-level ozone is the most serious air pollution problem in the northeast and mid-Atlantic states. National Safety Council

Cars also emit several pollutants classified as toxics, which cause as many as 1,500 cases of cancer in the country each year. Auto emissions also contribute to the environmental problems of acid rain and global warning. National Safety Council
Thanks


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## calicocj

Saw this link yesterday and wanted to pass it on:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/environment/

Sandy, you could also include some items from this in your fact sheet... a lot of people get hit w/ info about environmental issues and go straight "from denial to despair" - but having ideas that actually have an impact (and usually save you as a consumer money) gives a good take home message. That sounds like a neat idea to do with your group - let us know how they like it!


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## lilylove

I totally agree that giving people ideas on what they can do helps take the message home







I should have added that my next project is a sheet with ideas for simple changes to live a greener life.








That is a great list, I'll bookmark it to use when I start that. Thanks!


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## EnviroBecca

Great article from Time! Here's a similar list but with many different things on it: http://www.earthlingshandbook.org/dolist

Eli's Mommy, sorry you're having cramps! Are you sure the Diva is the cause? I've generally had much LESS cramping with a cup than with tampons.

Anybody have a cool idea for an Earth Day project for Girl Scouts 9-10 years old? We're looking for something to do in one meeting (90 minutes). We meet in a church within walking distance of a park and a neighborhood business district.


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladywolf* 
Yahoo!!! I am getting to commute to work on my bicycle!! I am getting to commute to work on my bicycle!!! (and my husband has been taking his motorcyle instead of his truck!!)

























You know I don't think I every told you guys that we run our car off of waste vegetable oil. Talk about feeling good! Driving up north in the summertime reusing a waste product, not using gas, and cutting our emissions up to 90%!

Check out www.greasecar.com


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kellid* 
I've been lurking forever trying to learn, but the bit I do, my dh undoes in 2 seconds. I'm the one that does all the cleaning and he doesn't complain until he sees I might have made the product and then all of a sudden he questions how clean things are.







: I've been cloth-ing on the sly too, but I think he's on to me. Only because I had to tell him so we wouldn't have any more fights over "who didn't change the tp roll when they were done"...........hmmmm, that would be YOU. He said, "that is sooo gross".







It does make it hard, I don't mind the extra work, it's the mental weight of not being on the same page that gets heavy. So I will keep lurking and keep trying.









Hang in there! I've found that some people take longer to come around...maybe your DH is like that? Can you do "sneaky" things like leave articles in the bathroom as reading material and remove any other bathroom reading he has stashed there?







Or can you practice coming up with short little factoids so that when he questions you on something, you have a pithy quote/fact to come back with?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilylove* 
I am putting together a fact sheet for a discussion topic on green living for a mother's group meeting. I thought I would post what I have to share, and hopefully if anyone has any facts that I could add they could let me know







: I would really like to add facts on the enviromental effects of conventional/factory farming. I would like to provide information from easily identified sources.









What an AWESOME idea! The list is so great!!! One thing I wanted to suggest was for the facts about garbage if you could tie it to what all that means. I've found that a lot of people don't really *know* what happens to garbage. Or if they have thought about it, they just think it goes to a landfill and "out of sight, out of mind". But if you can find some facts about the negative impacts of a landfill, maybe that would help drive home the garbage facts? I don't know of any off the top of my head though...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
Anybody have a cool idea for an Earth Day project for Girl Scouts 9-10 years old? We're looking for something to do in one meeting (90 minutes). We meet in a church within walking distance of a park and a neighborhood business district.

Is there a nearby park you can clean up? That's always a fun group activity. Or maybe you could get together and come up with entries to the Stamp Out Carbon contest? Here are some other things I found by googling *kids "earth day" activities*:
EcoKids
PlanetPals


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## kellid

snozzberry said:


> Hang in there! I've found that some people take longer to come around...maybe your DH is like that? Can you do "sneaky" things like leave articles in the bathroom as reading material and remove any other bathroom reading he has stashed there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or can you practice coming up with short little factoids so that when he questions you on something, you have a pithy quote/fact to come back with?
> 
> Unfortunately, he is a very educated man, it's on of those things that the more I am the more he doesn't want to be, and I am not an in your face gal. He also doesn't beleive in global warming. He's not in denial that it is happening, he is under the school of thought that it is a natural "life" process of the earth, that history repeats itslelf and it is "time' for this cycle to begin again. It's very difficult to argue with him. I don't do it for the sake of global warming, I just do it. I'ts wasteful and glutteness not to, if you know better. I fall off my wagon often, but I climb right back on. And I'm learning more and more and more everyday from the likes of you ladies.


----------



## kellid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 







Hang in there! I've found that some people take longer to come around...maybe your DH is like that? Can you do "sneaky" things like leave articles in the bathroom as reading material and remove any other bathroom reading he has stashed there?







Or can you practice coming up with short little factoids so that when he questions you on something, you have a pithy quote/fact to come back with?

Unfortunately, he is a very educated man, it's on of those things that the more I am the more he doesn't want to be, and I am not an in your face gal. He also doesn't beleive in global warming. He's not in denial that it is happening, he is under the school of thought that it is a natural "life" process of the earth, that history repeats itslelf and it is "time' for this cycle to begin again. It's very difficult to argue with him. I don't do it for the sake of global warming, I just do it. I'ts wasteful and glutteness not to, if you know better. I fall off my wagon often, but I climb right back on. And I'm learning more and more and more everyday from the likes of you ladies.


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## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
Hey mamas-
not sure if this fits here but this is where I lurk EVERY day and feel comfortable!







(if you have advice on where to x-post that would be helpful)
So-
We have had well water since we bought this house. We recently had to pay $1300 to get access to public water(the entire town did) However, we haven't "hooked up" to it yet. We still pay $45 every 2 months but don't use it.
Anyway, they are saying we now MUST hook up. Granted the well water isn't the best (we do have a great filter though) as we have a nuclear power plant nearby as well as ADM (one of the world's largest agricultural processors of soybeans, corn, wheat and cocoa. peee-yew!) and a munitions dump.
SO my question to you all is this:
Which water do you think is better??????????????????????????Should we fight this?

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
Does anybody have any thoughts on this?









Hey Erin.









Really the question shouldn't be, 'which is the better water?' The reason is because none of it is restructured and revitalized. Nature in its cleanest state makes structured water that is revitalized by going through the filtration process in earth and making its way to a natural flowing current, like a stream or river. The problem with man ruining everything pretty much leaves you with only a few choices to obtain this water. I highly recommend ionized minerals because they perform the functions within the water that nature does. So really, it wouldn't matter which water you used. The stuff I use actually seperates the bad stuff out over night and you can see it sink to the bottom. I have been using it for years now and my children rarely get a sniffle that lasts longer then a day or two. They also haven't been to a pediatrician for over 3 years. It goes back to the old saying, "If the fish is sick do you treat the fish or do you treat the water?"


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## lilylove

Maybe you could see if your DPW has any info on the water quality where it comes from. Are they monitoring for contaminaion, if so who is monitoring it and with what standards? I would test the well water too and see what seems like the best choice for your family.
I'm wondering how they can demand you use city water? If your water is safe do they really have the authority to dictate that you abandon your well?


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## ladywolf

Cool about running on WVO flowers. We run my husbands truck on biodiesel!


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## RidentMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilylove* 
I'm wondering how they can demand you use city water? If your water is safe do they really have the authority to dictate that you abandon your well?

Within the city limits, you're pretty much under the city laws. In the last place we lived (just outside of the city limits thankfully!), they required everyone to connect to the city sewer system...at their own expense ($5,000+ per person was the figure I heard about). Makes rural living all that much more desirable.


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladywolf* 
Cool about running on WVO flowers. We run my husbands truck on biodiesel!










You know I had tried to start a Tribe for Wvo/biodiesel folks and there really wasn't any response. I thought there would be more!

Are you really building a cob tea house? If you are that is one of the coolest ideas. I like just thinking about it!


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## treefolk

Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but...

We are actually getting ready to move INTO town from a rural wooded cabin in the woods! Although I love the peace and quiet and the lovely trees and our house (i will truly miss it all) - I have spent more time in my car than I have enjoying our home. Plus it is a lot of work caring for even our few acres, and trying to convert into a more green property. We enjoy the work, but also enjoy doing other things as well!
We will be able to walk to work, walk kids to school, walk to hiking trails along a wonderful river, and many many parks! I can't wait!!!! Plus I'm looking foward to having a small urban garden with lots of sun! (gardening in the woods is very challeging!)


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treefolk* 
Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but...

We are actually getting ready to move INTO town from a rural wooded cabin in the woods! Although I love the peace and quiet and the lovely trees and our house (i will truly miss it all) - I have spent more time in my car than I have enjoying our home. Plus it is a lot of work caring for even our few acres, and trying to convert into a more green property. We enjoy the work, but also enjoy doing other things as well!
We will be able to walk to work, walk kids to school, walk to hiking trails along a wonderful river, and many many parks! I can't wait!!!! Plus I'm looking foward to having a small urban garden with lots of sun! (gardening in the woods is very challeging!)


Know the feeling! A few years back we were in a yurt without electricity an hour away town on the Appalachian trail. Very cool, but yeah...WAY too much time in the car and a lot of time not so efficient.

We just bought a house where we can walk to the farmer's market,downtown, parks, bank EVERYTHING! We are so excited. It is in a big neighborhood with sidewalks and we are very excited for this new lifestyle.

Congratulations on your new life move. May it be abundantly blessed!


----------



## mtn.mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I wrote a post about this here, but does anyone know if you can use straight rainwater for laundry? I could rig up a rain barrel just outside the basement window above our washer, feeding a hose through with a nozzle that can be turned on and off.

But I don't know if the water would be harboring bacteria that would be harmful. I would only use it for the first wash of cold (the final rinse would be regular tap water) and not at all for loads on hot.

I'm excited about this idea but I can't seem to find any idea for using straight rainwater.

I use alot of rainwater in the summertime. I just use rubbermaid trash cans with a bug net over the top for collection from all the gutters. Ben installed these drains at the base that shut off and attach to a hose, so I don't have to dip water all the time.

I use the rainwater for everything except drinking and cooking. I got really sick from drinking unboiled rainwater several years ago. Anyway the water gravity feeds down to the garden, and I haul it inside for the wringer washer, carry it to the dogs and goats, heat it on the stove for washing dishes.

Every once in a while I scrub out the trash cans because they will grow red scum in the sun. And if the surface starts to bubble or get green scum then I dump the water and pray for rain.

We don't have running water here, just 'run and get it water' from our hand dug spring. Usually the only water I have to haul in the summer is drinking water, unless its a terribly dry year.


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## treefolk

he he he -- flowers - my name is hilary , too!


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## goddessgold1

subbing


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## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kellid* 
Unfortunately, he is a very educated man, it's on of those things that the more I am the more he doesn't want to be, and I am not an in your face gal. He also doesn't beleive in global warming. He's not in denial that it is happening, he is under the school of thought that it is a natural "life" process of the earth, that history repeats itslelf and it is "time' for this cycle to begin again.

I mentioned this is the first thread, but it's worth repeating - there's a good book on global warming and the evidence that human activity is accelerating it beyond the natural climate cycles, it's called _The Weathermakers_, http://www.theweathermakers.com/. It's academic, logical and scientific enough that highly educated skeptics can't really poke holes in it, if they're being intellectually honest (IMO). Maybe you could get your husband to read it. It's also available on CD unabridged. And a good website on this topic for those same skeptics is http://www.realclimate.org/ ("climate science from climate scientists", and beware there is some sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek stuff). TBH, the Al Gore version of climate science comes across to skeptics and many who are uncertain as extremist and the-sky-is-falling, making it easy to dismiss.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
You know I had tried to start a Tribe for Wvo/biodiesel folks and there really wasn't any response. I thought there would be more!

Did I reply? I don't remember. I would have if I'd seen it. We run on biodiesel, wih the intention of switching to WVO when the warranty is expired on our vehicle. I fantasize about growing our own oil!

Have you all seen http://www.themeatrix.com/ ? It's about factory farming of animals, and has info about alternatives. (I'm not veg, but try not to support the CAFO system in any way.)


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AJP* 
Have you all seen http://www.themeatrix.com/ ? It's about factory farming of animals, and has info about alternatives. (I'm not veg, but try not to support the CAFO system in any way.)

yup. i've seen it. uke


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## BellaLuna Rayne

Subbing again, I had subbed to the original thread but got a little sidetraked with other things. In the next few weeks I am going to be moving to a small 2 bedroom house in a town of less than 600 people, I am just renting at this point but I hope to be there awhile. DH comes home in the fall so I need to get out there and get things ready for him.

I plan on changing all the lights to CFLs, using green friendly cleaning products, less paper products, I just bought a DivaCup today and can't wait to try it out! I am planning on starting a veggie garden and if I have enough space composting. I'm trying my hardest to get DH to convert to more green ways but he is resisting my ideas, I guess I am having a much easier time since he is thousands of miles away.

Can't wait to keep reading all the ideas!


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## Manonash

I'm scared to watch the meatrix! I have OCD and don't wanna get images in my head I can't get out. I just wanna know as a non-veg where to get meat from ethical ranchers.

Does anyone subscribe to Plenty Magazine? They couple I have picked up at Whole Foods have been pretty good.


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AJP* 
I mentioned this is the first thread, but it's worth repeating - there's a good book on global warming and the evidence that human activity is accelerating it beyond the natural climate cycles, it's called _The Weathermakers_, http://www.theweathermakers.com/. It's academic, logical and scientific enough that highly educated skeptics can't really poke holes in it, if they're being intellectually honest (IMO).

I totally agree! This is an excellent book!!!


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## Manonash

We just watched the "End of Oil" Series on LinkTV -- WOW! Seems like everything I watch related to environmentalism now motivates me more and more. DH is stoked too! He's wondering about converting propane vehicles to run on hydrogen and making hydrogen at home. I read an article a year or so ago (I believe in Plenty mag) about a couple who made their own hydrogen using solar power to do it.

Thank you to the poster who posted the blog about the person trying to go plastic free for a year. That's awesome! It's made me take notice a lot more about where all plastic enters my life. I'm shocked about how often it's there. I may not be able to do it to the degree that blogger has (right now at least), but the next time I go for shampoo, I'll check out the Burt's Bee's. (Not quite ready to go nopoo yet







)


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## Mamma Christi

Is there any one here who doesn't use trash bags? We have a friend who doesn't and we were considering doing it and probably using a pail liner (because DH wouldn't want to constantly wash the trash can). Just wondering if anyone does this and if so what you use instead. Thanks!

*sub*


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## ladywolf

Yep, building a cob tea house in the backyard to see if we like the building technique when it is just us and not a workshop







Both my husband and I work as well as I cook everything we eat and try to grow as much as possible. Sew. Spin. Learning to weave. There just is not enough time in the day for everything!!! So, the cob is vvveeerrryyyy ssslllloooowww








wonderfully meditative though!


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treefolk* 
he he he -- flowers - my name is hilary , too!

Cool! Not many of us out there....good to meet you!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
I'm scared to watch the meatrix! I have OCD and don't wanna get images in my head I can't get out. I just wanna know as a non-veg where to get meat from ethical ranchers.

Does anyone subscribe to Plenty Magazine? They couple I have picked up at Whole Foods have been pretty good.

I know I need to be careful about what movies I see b/c I am very sensitive to images. Plus, I have been trying to focus on what we can do to make a change and not on all the crap that makes me mad. I am glad the info is out there for people who are just learning, but I am all about moving on from anger and making the change in my life.

Give me a little tidbit about Plenty. I love the title and I love mags. What is there scene?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladywolf* 
Yep, building a cob tea house in the backyard to see if we like the building technique when it is just us and not a workshop







Both my husband and I work as well as I cook everything we eat and try to grow as much as possible. Sew. Spin. Learning to weave. There just is not enough time in the day for everything!!! So, the cob is vvveeerrryyyy ssslllloooowww








wonderfully meditative though!

I LOVE IT! I know what you mean about not enough hours in the day. There is just so many cool skills I want to acquire. Sounds like you keep yourself busy!


----------



## mtn.mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamma Christi* 
Is there any one here who doesn't use trash bags? We have a friend who doesn't and we were considering doing it and probably using a pail liner (because DH wouldn't want to constantly wash the trash can). Just wondering if anyone does this and if so what you use instead. Thanks!

We don't. We just use dog food bags and 5 gallon buckets. Recycling goes in rubbermaid tubs.


----------



## EnviroBecca

If anybody is looking for earth-friendly shoes for your kids, Kid Bean is having sales!
Vegetarian Kids rainbow sandals for $12.60
and hemp sneakers w/recycled rubber soles for $25 (forgot to copy the link to those).

I am so tempted by the sneakers (my son has to wear closed-toe shoes at childcare) but we're low on money...but he will need new shoes within a few months, and synthetic sneakers from Target might cost almost as much and are worse for the planet...but buying shoes online makes me nervous, even when the return policy is good, because returning things is such a hassle! So I am going to think about it for a few days and meanwhile measure his feet carefully to try to get the right size if I do order them.


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
I'm scared to watch the meatrix! I have OCD and don't wanna get images in my head I can't get out. I just wanna know as a non-veg where to get meat from ethical ranchers.

It's animated, don't know if that would make it any less haunting for you (it's still oogy). And you can look up sources in these places:

http://www.eatwellguide.org/
http://www.localharvest.org/
http://www.eatwild.com/


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## mrsalf97

subbing

I'm working on not bringing home any more plastic bags.


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## Manonash

flowers: I was actually looking to see if anyone else could give me a tidbit. I've only picked up a couple of copies, so am not sure of their overall take on things. Their subtitle is "It's Easy Being Green." I've followed a few links on their website and it seems to have some good info (like decoding egg carton language). But, a strange thing or too, also. Like, when I did the "digital plenty preview," one of the things on the title page said "how genetically modified plants could help fight pollution." I'm totally against GMO, so that threw me, being it is a green magazine. It wouldn't let me read the article though, so that coulda been said tongue-in-cheek.

AJP: Actually, it does help that it's animated. For some reason, animated images don't bother me too badly long term. I want the info, I just don't wanna see gruesome images.

I've got to read Omnivores Dilemma. I've been having all sorts of thoughts about where my food comes from, and I hear this book is great.

Bought 5 Chico bags today at my HFS to put into my purse, since I am always forgetting my canvas bag. Those are handy little suckers!


----------



## treefolk

This is going back to the lunch box discussion...

I did not like the laptop lunch box at all. I thought the lids were very difficult to get opened AND closed even for my 7 year old. When I used the containers with out lids it made a mess with a lot of what I packed (and they only give you 1 lid. Just wasn't for me.

So I got the round 2 tiered stainless steel "bento" box (forgot the brand name) that comes with cool bamboo flatware in a handy case. My dd loves this, but as she is a food "seperatist"







I found myself putting things into wax bags and then shoving them in the container. I now use it more for myself (it's great for a salad and some dry snacks) or outings other than school.

So what do I use now? I sewed up some cute lunch totes. Non-insulated, made a pocket on front, very simple. Put most things in pyrex glass containers, still use wax paper bags when needed (but recycle them until they tear) It really works the best for us, haven't had a problem with insulation so far. Cheap, easy. One of the totes I even made with the lining of an old raincoat, so now the inside is waterproof!

After spending almost 60$ on "green" lunch totes, it was a real eye opener for me about being conscience of buying at all, green or not.


----------



## Manonash

Quote:

So what do I use now? I sewed up some cute lunch totes. Non-insulated, made a pocket on front, very simple. Put most things in pyrex glass containers, still use wax paper bags when needed (but recycle them until they tear) It really works the best for us, haven't had a problem with insulation so far. Cheap, easy. One of the totes I even made with the lining of an old raincoat, so now the inside is waterproof!
This is so cool. I especially love the raincoat idea. Now if I could find time to sew







.


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## Mamma Christi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
This is so cool. I especially love the raincoat idea. Now if I could find time to sew







.

Another idea for the waterproof is taking an old shower curtain that you sanitize







. I've seen moms use this for waterproofing various things they make before


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## eco_mama

this may have already been brought up but SILK now uses 100% wind energy to make their products!







they have GREEN caps on their soy milk now.


----------



## kellid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
Plus, I have been trying to focus on what we can do to make a change and not on all the crap that makes me mad. I am glad the info is out there for people who are just learning, but I am all about moving on from anger and making the change in my life.


I think this is a wonderful philosophy! Good for you.


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kellid* 
I think this is a wonderful philosophy! Good for you.

I think it's great, too. We finally watched _Who Killed the Electric Car?_ a few days ago, and my husband said "I'm running out of room for anger!" It's easy to feel anger and despair about these kind of environmental issues, since so much of it is perpetuated by entities so huge, bureaucratic and impenetrable that one individual resisting it is like a tiny voice shouting in a hurricane. But if all of the tiny voices resist, it will make a difference, ultimately those huge entities will have no choice but to respond, and other tiny voices will notice that they don't have to just go with the flow. So keep on truckin'.


----------



## Manonash

Oooh, the shower curtain is a good idea too!

Quote:

We finally watched Who Killed the Electric Car? a few days ago, and my husband said "I'm running out of room for anger!"
I kinda feel this way too sometimes. I have my optimistic days and pessimistic days.


----------



## clothdipemomof2boy

would love to sub. I read you green living challenge and think it is soo great and wrote everything down cause my printer doesnt work but wanted to get all the ideas on paper somehow. I would love to learn more with this thread about green living. so far i use cloth tp and cloth momma pads and cloth dipes for my youngest son but soon will be putting him in cloth trainers like his brother. we hang some up to dry. we recycle and i use cloth bags for groceries. I make my own home cleaners and try to cut down on any paper coming in the house. I still want to do more we are starting a compost area and going to garden but any more info would be handy. So i would love to join if i can thanks.


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## MrsMike

Wow. I was surprised that this tribe isn't on the first page.
Has anyone heard of this?
www.recyclebank.com


----------



## quantumleap

This is kind of random, but does anyone know what happened to the Skyfish Project website? It was a Severn Cullis Suzuki & co. initiative, and it was pretty cool, and then, all of a sudden, it seems to have disappeared? Where did it go? Anyone?
Katia


----------



## sweetirishCT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsMike* 
Wow. I was surprised that this tribe isn't on the first page.
Has anyone heard of this?
www.recyclebank.com

Does anyone know if this service has reached outside of PA? Specifically into CT?


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## mamaMAMAma

:


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## lilylove

Bumping us up


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## strawberry_fields

subbing!


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## mamarabolli

I found this on craigslist and thought some might be interested:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/tfr/312874256.html

Here's a cut and paste:
What's YOUR big idea to make the world a cleaner, greener place? Sundance Channel wants to know with the What's the Big Idea? short film contest sponsored by Lexus.

Submit a one-minute short film featuring your biggest, boldest, greenest eco-solutions. Grand prize is $10,000 to make your idea into reality, and a one-year lease of a new Lexus hybrid! Contest is on now and ends April 30, 2007. See official site for additional rules and details. Good luck!

http://www.sundancechannel.com/thegreen

Also check out The Green, a new block of programming on Sundance Channel focusing entirely on environmental topics and discussion.


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## Manonash

DH and I are talking seriously about trying to go solar within this year. He did quite a bit of research yesterday and talked with a couple of installers/carriers. We're looking at the Unisolar panels (they are half the price of the typical kind). Also, there is a bill in committee right now to give greater incentives for going solar; DH said it looks like it is going to pass. I'm so excited!!!!


----------



## Manonash

Anyone heard of hydrogen boosting a gasoline engine to up the mileage? There is a system out there called "hydro boost" that adds hydrogen to the intake. You have to get hydrogen via containers, though. DH was looking this up yesterday and found it. According to what he read, you can get as much as a 30% increase in mileage.

There is also a system being sold that boasts an on-board electrolysis kit to make your own hydrogen, but that takes too much energy to use.


----------



## mamaMAMAma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
DH and I are talking seriously about trying to go solar within this year. He did quite a bit of research yesterday and talked with a couple of installers/carriers. We're looking at the Unisolar panels (they are half the price of the typical kind). Also, there is a bill in committee right now to give greater incentives for going solar; DH said it looks like it is going to pass. I'm so excited!!!!

I hope it passes... We're looking into solar panels as well. Any idea about the time frame of this bill?


----------



## EnviroBecca

We are soon going to go up onto our roof for the first time since buying the house almost 5 years ago! (We just got a tall enough ladder!) Our roof is not leaking, but we want to check if it needs maintenance. It is an almost-flat roof, and we know from the home inspection that it is the "rolled roofing" type, basically tar-paper. When it needs to be repaired/replaced, we're wondering if there is a more environmentally friendly choice? We can see some similar roofs from our house and know that most are black but some are white; is black (heat absorbing) better in a climate with a long winter and relatively mild summer?







:

Of course, in talking about our roof we've pondered solar panels. There is nothing casting shade onto our roof...but we just don't get a whole lot of sun in this climate, so our best guess is that with current technology it would be hard to recoup the cost of the panels and maintenance. Maybe they'll get better in the future....


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## corwinegall

Ours is almost flat too and dh has done some roofing. I'll ask him if there are more enviornmentally friendly options.


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## mum2be

We have solar-electric panels and they don't do as much as we'd hope. They basically only keep the backup batteries charged, but if the sun goes away they obviously don't work so well









We did put in a Tarm wood boiler though, and that heats our house. The solar is a backup and helps to heat the water in the summer. Most days, it works well as long as it's super sunny.

I read somewhere that New Zealand ( I think) just designed windows to act like solar panels. I'm going to try to find more information about this. It might be more practical for people building. I wonder if the cost is less than solar panels too...


----------



## calicocj

Just wanted to report back, that a while back there was discusison on joining a CSA, and it inspired me to get on the waiting list of our local one.... So we just started getting our deliveries this past week and it is awesome!!!

I love having the fresh, organic veggies, the variety, and getting things that I would otherwise not buy in the grocery









We did get a half share so it would be more manageable, and it is working out well, so I just wanted to report back







:


----------



## quelindo

Hey, Mum2be, OT but what kind of camera do you have? The photos in your link are gorgeous! (And your little girl is a cutie, too.)


----------



## mum2be

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Hey, Mum2be, OT but what kind of camera do you have? The photos in your link are gorgeous! (And your little girl is a cutie, too.)

Thanks







I have a Nikon D70s. Flickr is an awesome site!


----------



## snozzberry

Happy Earth Day weekend to everyone! Do any of you have special events/celebrations planned for your family?

ETA: btw, did anyone catch 20/20 on Friday night? The whole episode was about global warming and simple things you can do to decrease your footprint. It was pretty basic, but I was so happy to see a show like that make it into the mainstream TV schedule!


----------



## mum2be

Just got a new book called "Living Green" by Greg Horn. It's pretty good, but mostly things we already talk about here. Also, "Cradle to Cradle" is AWESOME! It's by William McDonough and Michael Braungart. I highly recommend it









Bad news...

Our solar panels burst today. The glycol (anti-freeze, nontoxic) went EVERYWHERE in our house. Apparently the water backed up, heated to 250 degrees and the PEX tubing burst. It went all over our antique table, into dd's room and all in her closet on the clothes. What a mess!

So we are looking into the solar tube panels now. We can get a 25% rebate from the state and they aren't that expensive.

We went to an alternative energy expo today and learned some things that I'll share when I get some time


----------



## Slabobbin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamma Christi* 
Is there any one here who doesn't use trash bags? We have a friend who doesn't and we were considering doing it and probably using a pail liner (because DH wouldn't want to constantly wash the trash can). Just wondering if anyone does this and if so what you use instead. Thanks!

*sub*


We don't use trash bags.

We don't have curbside recycling (nor curbside garbage pickup for that matter, lol) so I have five large garbage cans outside the back door. Four onone side of the steps and one on the other. The four are labeled "paper", "plastic", "aluminum" and "glass" the fifth is on the other side of the steps and is for garbage that will not recycle and will not compost. I compost all food items. I also shred any and all paper items that I possibly can and use it for ebay packing material. You would be amazed at what you can shred! I shred the paper tags from Goodwill clothes, I shredded the box from my dd's Burt's Bees shampoo this morning, lol. So my garbage cans don't get a lot of garbage and the garbage they do get isn't "yucky" so there isn't really a need to wash them often.

We have stainless steel garbage cans with removable liners for the kitchen, bedroom and bathroom. When they get full we just pull out the liner by the handle and go dump it in the garbage can by the back steps. When that one gets full my DH throws the entire garbage can in the back of his truck and takes it to the county dump where he dumps it into the large garbage bin.

It takes a little work to separate all of the garbage and to go put it in the appropriate cans or the compost pile but then it saves work also since DH doesn't have to take out the garbage literally everyday when he gets home from work (as was the case before).


----------



## eco_mama

today my goal is to find out what composting setup will work for us and start working on it. we rent and can't really have one outside so i'm thinking one for underneath the sink will do.

*happy earth day! but i say, earth day EVERYDAY!*


----------



## mum2be

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
We don't use trash bags.

We don't have curbside recycling (nor curbside garbage pickup for that matter, lol) so I have five large garbage cans outside the back door. Four onone side of the steps and one on the other. The four are labeled "paper", "plastic", "aluminum" and "glass" the fifth is on the other side of the steps and is for garbage that will not recycle and will not compost. I compost all food items. I also shred any and all paper items that I possibly can and use it for ebay packing material. You would be amazed at what you can shred! I shred the paper tags from Goodwill clothes, I shredded the box from my dd's Burt's Bees shampoo this morning, lol. So my garbage cans don't get a lot of garbage and the garbage they do get isn't "yucky" so there isn't really a need to wash them often.

We have stainless steel garbage cans with removable liners for the kitchen, bedroom and bathroom. When they get full we just pull out the liner by the handle and go dump it in the garbage can by the back steps. When that one gets full my DH throws the entire garbage can in the back of his truck and takes it to the county dump where he dumps it into the large garbage bin.

It takes a little work to separate all of the garbage and to go put it in the appropriate cans or the compost pile but then it saves work also since DH doesn't have to take out the garbage literally everyday when he gets home from work (as was the case before).


This is a really good idea







We don't have curbside pickup either. Good idea on the paper products!!


----------



## quelindo

Happy Earth Day everyone!

Did you see today's Arlo and Janis?

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/ar...7042261842.jpg


----------



## ErikaLeigh

We have been trying to make small changes to become more green.

We started recycling today, after finding out that we would have to take it to a center because we are outside of the 'area' that does curbside.


----------



## WuWei

Btw, there is a Green Living forum on ai makoto, the Peace Activism message board. You all are welcome to have more depth and breadth of conversation there.









http://www.aimakoto.org/phpBB2/

Pat


----------



## AuntRayRay

WuWei:
I just tried to register for that forum and it keeps saying..:

Warning: Wrong parameter count for str_replace() in /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/usercp_register.php on line 669

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/usercp_register.php:669) in /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/page_header.php on line 483

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/usercp_register.php:669) in /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/page_header.php on line 485

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/usercp_register.php:669) in /home/aimakoto/public_html/phpBB2/includes/page_header.php on line 486

Any idea what I might be doing wrong?
thanx-looks like a cool forum








RayRay~


----------



## WuWei

RayRay, I am clueless.







I sent a PM to aira, she is the admin there. I'm sure she can fix it (whatever it is).









Give it a try again this afternoon.

Pat


----------



## ashleyca

so little time, so many posts to catch up on. . .

subbing


----------



## utopia760

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErikaLeigh* 
We have been trying to make small changes to become more green.

We started recycling today, after finding out that we would have to take it to a center because we are outside of the 'area' that does curbside.

im sorry it really shocked me that something so simple as recycling is something many people dont do- it is such a huge help - im glad you started!


----------



## calicocj

Hi yall,

Watched CNN this morning and the business piece was on "Save Green by Going Green" or something like that.

Anybody see it?

It was pretty good and basic - trade out to CFLs, have a home energy audit, repair ductwork, upgrade to Energy Star appliances, and unplug "vampire" appliances.

Just wanted to share...


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *utopia760* 
im sorry it really shocked me that something so simple as recycling is something many people dont do- it is such a huge help - im glad you started!

My in-laws were _bragging_ one day about how they don't recycle and just throw everything into the trash...even though they have curbside pick-up for recyclables.







:


----------



## RaRa7

yeah-my parents refuse to recycle--my mom is afraid it will attract cockroaches. We live 4 blocks away and have never seen ONE cockroach near ours. So, anyway, you wouldn't believe the amount of trash 2 people can generate--it's so sad to see them taking out a full bag of trash everyday


----------



## Manonash

Anyone catch the green Oprah show? Whatdya think?


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
Anyone catch the green Oprah show? Whatdya think?

I watched part of it... on one hand I am glad that this topic is getting into the mainstream media, and on the other I get frustrated bc her lifestyle is so far from green and she acts like all the green ideas are so foreign and crazy... when the lady was showing the cotton string produce bags (which I was drooling over), did you notice how O was like "you put your vegetables in there???"

but I loved the part w/ Laurie David and Sheryl Crow, my mom got to see them at one of their campus stops a couple weeks ago and she said it was AWESOME!


----------



## rbriansgirl

I want to jump in on all this fun green action! I haven't posted for a while because we were in the process of moving. I have been really trying to make some "green" changes around our house. When we moved I put all of my cloth dipes in storage but ended up bringing them back out this week because we're not quite ready to potty train.

I just purchased my first gladrags, my family thinks I am totally nuts but I love them and I will admit at first I thought the idea was a little weird but it really makes a lot of sense to me now. I have been using my inside clothes rack to dry most of our "heavy laundry" and so we hardly use our dryer very much at all. As long as I keep up with it. Canvas grocery bags as well.

Our biggest challenge right now is recycling. We have no Recycling facilities, and no we're not out in the boonies. There is one 45 miles away but they only have limited items that they accept. Is anyone else in this situation, what do you do?


----------



## ErikaLeigh

We don't do cable. So I didn't see it.

I'm ill that we live like 5 minutes outside of the area that they do pick up and they won't even do pick up.

We have to take them to the drop sites and drop them there. I'm going to have look them up and see where I can take them to.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rbriansgirl* 
Our biggest challenge right now is recycling. We have no Recycling facilities, and no we're not out in the boonies. There is one 45 miles away but they only have limited items that they accept. Is anyone else in this situation, what do you do?

I'm so sorry! That must be very frustrating. At our last house, we had curbside recycling but they didn't accept glass so we had to drive about 20 miles to drop that off every once in a while. So I can't imagine having to drive twice that far to drop off _any_ recycling.









Earth911 seems to have a good listing of all drop-off centers...maybe you could find a "non-standard" drop-off center thru their search?


----------



## marmoreus

Hi,

This may have already been discussed but I am not having much luck searching. I'd like to replace out our light bulbs with CF bulbs but most of our light fixtures are open with the bulbs exposed so I'd like to find some fluorescents that are more traditionally shaped.

I've seen them before but I can't find any locally and am wondering if anyone knows of a good place to get them online.

Thanks!

Risa


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
My in-laws were _bragging_ one day about how they don't recycle and just throw everything into the trash...even though they have curbside pick-up for recyclables.







:


That's pretty disgusting. I mean, it's one thing to be ignorant or lazy about doing it, but to actually be proud of yourself? I don't even get that.

Maybe it's a status thing..."we're so rich we can waste all that we want."

Gahhhhhhhhh......







:







:







:


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
That's pretty disgusting. I mean, it's one thing to be ignorant or lazy about doing it, but to actually be proud of yourself? I don't even get that.

Maybe it's a status thing..."we're so rich we can waste all that we want."

Gahhhhhhhhh......







:







:







:

Yeah. We are definitely the weirdos in DH's family. This is the same couple who had one baby but then regretted it -- my SIL actually said to me that she wished she hadn't had her daughter. And their daughter is healthy, they can afford for the mom not to work, and my MIL watched her all the time (including when DH's niece was six weeks old, so her parents could go on a cruise).

I'm still nursing our 21-month old and we co-sleep and cloth diaper and had a homebirth, so I can only imagine what they're saying about _us_. Maybe it's best if I never tell them I'm using cloth TP...


----------



## Manonash

Risa: I found my CFLs that were incandescent shaped at Lowe's. I wish I could find several in a package though, since the packaging really stinks. I'm guessing they package them that way because of the mercury in them; if they get broken then they can contain the mercury in the package?

I liked the Oprah show. I somewhat doubt her sincerety, and it seemed a little commercial to me.... BUT... a LOT of people listen to her. So, I think it's a good thing that more people are made aware of things they can do. I think she missed the mark on buying organic though. I went to her message boards to read what people thought of the show, and the response was almost 100% positive, with many buying CFLs and cloth grocery bags. I got a couple of new ideas there:

- making fruit/veggie store bags out of those bath scrubber scrunchie thingies. All you have to is cut the string in the middle that ties it all together, stretch it out long, cut into pieces and tie one end. You can make them the size you want, they're kinda stretchy, and they're mesh. It's great! Cheap too. Free for me, since I've gotten a few as gifts. Plus, it's a great way to reuse/recycle the little buggers!

- take a bucket to the shower, and catch the prewarm water and use it in plants, add to sink to soak dishes. (I'm not there yet with this one, but I liked the idea).

- if you use fabric softner sheets, wash your lint tray with soap periodically to make the drier more effecient, because the stuff off the sheets builds up in the holes of the trap. OR, switch to a more environmentally brand to begin with. (They were mostly endorsing Shaklee)

The one thing that concerns me, is that if products like SG, and Shaklee start getting too much demand that they can't sustainably meet that demand. Some of the companies will stop producing more if they can't sustainably meet the demands, but others may not. I'm thinking Palm Oil here (awesome forests have been cut down to grow the plant it comes from to sell it commercially). People need to be taught how to be more self sustaining. I missed the 20/20 special on what we do to be greener, but my Mom said it was pretty good. She said they even said we need to be eating locally/seasonally. Canning and going back to the way we used to do things in regards to food. That shocked me.


----------



## mum2be

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
yeah-my parents refuse to recycle--my mom is afraid it will attract cockroaches. We live 4 blocks away and have never seen ONE cockroach near ours. So, anyway, you wouldn't believe the amount of trash 2 people can generate--it's so sad to see them taking out a full bag of trash everyday









Everyday?? Oh goodness! I didn't know that was possible. Probably everything they're eating comes in a package of some sort, using disposable plates, cups and utensils or something. Ugh...sickening!


----------



## mum2be

Anyone know anythign about the new sippy cup called Foogo by Thermos? Here's the link. I'm wondering if this would be better for dd than the Born Free sippies. I might need to start supplementing her with a hypoallergenic formula (she has major allergies, I have low supply, etc.) and she won't take a bottle. I think one of these would be much better for her.
I just worry about the Foogo because there was some controversy over the insides of the Siggs, etc. so I wonder about this.

Anyone know? I like the design and it seems like the first one for smaller children


----------



## flowers

I thought the controversy over the Siggs was a false alarm?


----------



## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
I thought the controversy over the Siggs was a false alarm?

It was








http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=643883


----------



## mum2be

Yes, it was a false alarm. I just want to make sure about the Thermos brand sippy.


----------



## RaRa7

I'd love to know too-they look cool and ds #2 doesn't really care for the Kleen Canteen yet...........


----------



## Katia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eco_mama* 







Good to see a new thread....finally!

greenkids - i suggest using cloth napkins and if you're planning on using paper plates or something, seventh generation carries some of those products i think. for wrapping paper you could recycle a paper bag and maybe decorate it? or if you have any gift bags saved (i have tons from over the years) you could reuse one.







have fun!

I am know I am probably too later for the birthday party tips, and I haven't read all the posts, but wanted to subscribe to this thread and share this....
biodegradeable "disposable" utensils for parties.
http://www.worldcentric.org/store/cutlery.htm

And ditto on the cloth napkins, above!

As for wrapping papers, perhaps suggest no gifts, or state on the invitation that is an Eco-Party and gifts are encouraged to be recycled.


----------



## Katia

we signed up for a CSA farm produce box today. check it out here for your area at www.localharvest.org

and i am going to see if our gas/electric company offers green power.


----------



## ErikaLeigh

We have something like that called grow alabama here.


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marmoreus* 
Hi,

This may have already been discussed but I am not having much luck searching. I'd like to replace out our light bulbs with CF bulbs but most of our light fixtures are open with the bulbs exposed so I'd like to find some fluorescents that are more traditionally shaped.

I've seen them before but I can't find any locally and am wondering if anyone knows of a good place to get them online.

Thanks!

Risa

Risa - Our bathroom fixtures have the exposed bulbs, and I was able to find CFLs that are round and have the inside bulb enclosed in glass (looks more like a regular globe bulb) at Ikea, although I'm not sure if they sell them online...


----------



## marmoreus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
Risa - Our bathroom fixtures have the exposed bulbs, and I was able to find CFLs that are round and have the inside bulb enclosed in glass (looks more like a regular globe bulb) at Ikea, although I'm not sure if they sell them online...

Thanks, Callie. I have previously checked with IKEA and they don't sell them online or ship them through phone orders.

But...I did just find some at Costco today and they are sold in a 4-pk--so Shonda, try there if you have one nearby.

I'm excited to start the change over!

Thanks!


----------



## kimberlychapman

FYI on bulbs, check your local power company's website now and then, because ours frequently offers rebates and/or in-store sales on certain brands of CFLs. For example, for all of March some brands at Costco and Home Depot were partially subsidized by Nevada Power.

Many power/gas companies also give rebates on high-efficiency appliances and such too. Always worth a check before buying a major appliance.


----------



## Manonash

Question:
We've found that the pine kitty litter works better than the wheat for us, but it's supplied in those mylar type bags. Anyone found a pine litter brand that has recyclable packaging?

A couple of rants:
- went out to eat with my family a couple of days ago and DD spilled my water. They waitress brought a whole wad of paper napkins and plopped them in middle of it to clean them up. When I asked if she had a cuptowel to use, she said she did but that the napkins were way more absorbant. Now mind you, I've seen the wretched cuptowels that some restaurants use over and over all day till they are so nasty, but still. Gonna have to start carrying around my own cuptowels (DH said I already do -- cloth diapers)







.

-went to Wal-Mart (bad I know, but I was following my Mom around who was shopping there; I try to avoid it when I can), and they had a toy there that I thought was one of the worst examples of disposable crap I had ever seen. It was a disposable helium tank with a few balloons so you can blow them up at home. The tank was half the size of the smaller propane bottles. Blow up 10 or so balloons and then off to the landfill!


----------



## mbelisle2

Has anyone here had any experience building a veggie car? DH is ready to buy a diesel and add a tank for the veg oil from a friend's restaurant. He has read a ton about it, but we'd love to know someone who has actually done it.


----------



## ErikaLeigh

not here but that sounds interesting

We have filled up our first tub of newspaper. We should take it tomorrow to the spot.


----------



## Manonash

I need something to put my recyclables in, and was curious about the biodegradable trash bags. The recyclables sit out in bins at the city for gosh knows how long. Will the bags hold up long enough to contain the recyclables till they make it to their destination? Also, is there a cheaper source for them. The cheapest I found is 3$ each!


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetirishCT* 
I heard that Whole Foods is going to do the same thing... I wish we had something like that in this area... *sigh*
If I was charged for the plastic, I might ACTUALLY remember to bring in my great reusable bags! (rather than leaving them at home all the time...)

You don't need Whole Foods!
Start your own food coop/buying club!
They're much more affordable, anyway. We use my house as the drop-off/breakdown site for ours- can't beat _that_ commute.









Or find one that already exists-
there are _lots_ of us throughout New England.









Here's contact info for United (they bought Northeast Cooperatives):
http://www.unitedbuyingclubs.com/RES.../FABC_Home.htm

and for Associated Buyers:
http://www.assocbuyers.com/aboutus/servicearea.shtml#

Off to read the rest of the thread...


----------



## ramlita

This is an article by the author of The Omnivore's Dilemma that explains (part of) why a Twinkie with a zillion processed ingredients is cheaper than a carrot: government cash.

http://healthylazy.tribe.net/thread/...f-7e64ff236e6f

"Like most processed foods, the Twinkie is basically a clever arrangement of carbohydrates and fats teased out of corn, soybeans and wheat - three of the five commodity crops that the farm bill supports, to the tune of some $25 billion a year. (Rice and cotton are the others.)"

I can't remember where in the thread I got the idea that this would be on topic...


----------



## corwinegall

TWINKIES - I have the book "Twinkie, Deconstructed" on hold at the library, looking forward to reading it.

TOWELS - All of my prefolds are now house towels, they are perfect for wiping up spills.

ROOFING - Dh says there isn't a greener alternative for a flat roof house. I asked him about natural rubber and he said that'd be super, super expensive-you're better taking the money and doing other green things first. There are options for other kinds of roofs, but not a flat roof.

COOP BUYING CLUB - I tried starting one, but no one would buy consistently, it was a struggle to keep up on the minimums. Luckily a local organic delivery service started up-which actually worked out really good for me. I found myself purchasing a lot of packaged goods trying to make it up to the minimums. I can only buy so much produce, it would go bad before I got through it.


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *corwinegall* 
ROOFING - Dh says there isn't a greener alternative for a flat roof house.

Did you look into sod? It's about the greenest option out there!








I've forgotten- is it your roof, or someone else's?
















I think you can only do sod if the extra weight was planned for in the original construction of the house, but it's worth taking a look. Once they're set up, they're very low maintenance and offer a lot of benefits.


----------



## mariamaroo

Whew! I missed the jump to this new thread, so I'm glad I've finally found it. My newest green living technique is to use wax paper instead of ziploc bags whenever possible. I've also been leaning towards going back to vegetarian eating, but not sure I can stick to that at the moment.


----------



## zo's ma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
So, anyway, you wouldn't believe the amount of trash 2 people can generate--it's so sad to see them taking out a full bag of trash everyday









Wow!!! We are a family of 4 and it takes us a week to make a bag of trash.


----------



## zen-ozz

I am struggling with CF Lights! I am switching all of our lights over to the CF, but I have yet to find a light that satisfies my need for warm light. I am willing to switch even if I don't find a light I love, but I wanted to hear what others have found and if anyone has a light they feel is comparable in quality to the incandescent. I'm really looking forward to hearing what others have discovered!

On another note, I have been a CSA member for 2 years (entering my third) and I am so looking forward to this year's bounty!I can't wait to get that first head fo bok choy or lettuce or the first carrots! Yeah!

Now . . . if only I could find a way to ride my 6 month old on my bike! Why do I have to wait till he's a year? I so want to ride with him!!!

K


----------



## ErikaLeigh

I know that most people are against using plastic, but even when you do city recycling here they give you the blue bins. We went and bought a $3 tub for recycling and put everything in it.


----------



## msjd123

Hi, everyone!









I've been lurking here forever, and love reading what everyone has to say. I haven't ever said anything because I am just in awe of you all and soaking it all in







and I don't have much to add. But I love reading this thread every night!

Since no one else mentioned it, though, I thought I'd share this. I thought of you all when I saw it!








http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzz...-20070429.html


----------



## mommymaemae

subbing


----------



## ErikaLeigh

That comic was cute!


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
Forget Whole Foods! (Whole Paycheck) They systematically run food coops out of town whenever they can, just like Starbucks is gobbling up local cafes and coffeeshops.
Start your own food coop/buying club!

Have you seen any articles about this? I live in a town where we have a very strong food coop, and Whole Foods hasn't done anything to threaten them, afaik.


----------



## Manonash

ramlita: That was a great article about the farm bill! Wow! I just started reading Omnivore's Dilemma yesterday. He writes very well.

Sarah, that comic was hilarious! I saved to my desktop. Glad you shared it with us; welcome to the group!

zen-ozz: Oh, about the CFLs being too cool. I've read that if you can find ones with lower Kalvin (?) ratings (2000-2500) they will be closer to the warm colors of incandescent. I have no idea what those ratings are, if they even exist, or where to find that info, though. I think the same way you do; I'm using them anyway, but I don't really like the cool color. I love them otherwise, but my warm colored walls are now strange looking







. I wonder if I pain them a color that would make a warm color when combined with the cool blue of the lights, would that work

When DD gets a little older, I want to start voluteering with our local "keep our town beautiful" group. They plant trees and plants, encourage recycling, pick up trash etc. It's not "green" exactly, but it's the closest thing I can find.

We went to our local farmer's market this weekend and there were three vendors. There was one organic vendor (not the one I expected to see there) who had some really nice looking stuff. Hope he continues to be there. This FM has struggled for years to stay open, since no one comes much. It doesn't pay the farmers to show up. I'll just buy directly from the organic farm if it doesn't make though. They aren't far away, and don't do shares like a CSA; they just sell their stuff.

.


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zen-ozz* 
On another note, I have been a CSA member for 2 years (entering my third) and I am so looking forward to this year's bounty!I can't wait to get that first head fo bok choy or lettuce or the first carrots! Yeah!

I got the idea to join a CSA from this list and I love it so much. I certainly did not know that I love turnips!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *msjd123* 
Hi, everyone!









Since no one else mentioned it, though, I thought I'd share this. I thought of you all when I saw it!








http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzz...-20070429.html











I love this - thanks for posting it! I'm going to send it out to my office...


----------



## WonderMa

I can't believe I didn't post this sooner here!

I mostly lurk here.









http://www.earthscouts.org/

I'm really excited about Earth Scouts, but it's new so there aren't a lot of groups yet. We do a lot of the stuff as a family, but maybe next fall we'll get to start a group.

There's a yahoo group to join for more info.


----------



## MrsMike

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Have you seen any articles about this? I live in a town where we have a very strong food coop, and Whole Foods hasn't done anything to threaten them, afaik.

I hadn't heard this, either. We have a few strong coops around here, many farmers markets, along with two Whole Foods within 30 mins of each other. They all seem to co-exist quite well. I try to go to the farm markets before anything, but I go to Whole Foods for beauty products and medicinal products.


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## ramlita

You know, I've been racking my brain trying to remember details from the nineties when I worked in a series of coops around the country...
I've been looking around online, and finding nothing incriminating, so I'll go back and change my original post.







:

It's possible I'm thinking of one of the chains WF bought out (Wellspring, Bread & Circus, etc) and also entirely possible that it was paranoid hippie gossip in the first place.









I haven't given the topic much thought for a long time, living in a place so rural that WF would never consider as a location.

I'm glad there are towns that can support both a WF and a local coop- I'm sure there are some that did not.

I guess the heart of my thought on this subject is that I'd rather support a local not-for-profit cooperative effort than a for-profit corporation. Even if that corporation sounds pretty awesome, as huge corporations go.









It's certainly the frugal way to go- I get stuff like vitamins and homeopathics from my buying club for about half what people pay anywhere else...

(Have you all heard about the duck story with the CEO? An animal rights activist got on his case about the way ducks are raised- initially, he dismissed her with the retort, basically, "our standards are the best there are- go hassle someone else." After a while, though, he dug in and did some research himself and was horrified to the point of going vegan himself- as well as revamping WF's standards for animal farming. I thought that was pretty cool for a wealthy CEO to still be interested in such matters. Anyway, enough of my tangential rambling...)


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## RaRa7

WIld Oats put out the local coop in Portland, Maine that had been there for YEARS


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
You know, I've been racking my brain trying to remember details from the nineties when I worked in a series of coops around the country...
I've been looking around online, and finding nothing incriminating, so I'll go back and change my original post.







:

It's possible I'm thinking of one of the chains WF bought out (Wellspring, Bread & Circus, etc) and also entirely possible that it was paranoid hippie gossip in the first place.









Thanks for looking into that! Y'know, I'm always impressed with the MDC forums. In any other forum, people would have "stuck to their guns" and had a serious fight over something like that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
I guess the heart of my thought on this subject is that I'd rather support a local not-for-profit cooperative effort than a for-profit corporation. Even if that corporation sounds pretty awesome, as huge corporations go.

















: I need to do a better job of making it to the farmer's market every weekend...it's always good to be reminded of that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
(Have you all heard about the duck story with the CEO? An animal rights activist got on his case about the way ducks are raised- initially, he dismissed her with the retort, basically, "our standards are the best there are- go hassle someone else." After a while, though, he dug in and did some research himself and was horrified to the point of going vegan himself- as well as revamping WF's standards for animal farming. I thought that was pretty cool for a wealthy CEO to still be interested in such matters. Anyway, enough of my tangential rambling...)

I hadn't heard that one, but I know for at least a couple years he's had a salary of $1 per year because he has enough money already. I think what would have been his salary goes into their charitable organizations. That takes integrity, and we should see more of it from CEOs in this country.


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## corwinegall

Our local not-for-profit in the last few years turned for-profit. I'm not sure why, but they are doing much, much better now and are growing like crazy. Everyone is paid a decent wage. I don't know the particulars, but I can only say that "for-profit" doesn't nesc. mean bad.


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
This is an article by the author of The Omnivore's Dilemma that explains (part of) why a Twinkie with a zillion processed ingredients is cheaper than a carrot: government cash.

Not surprising. I often feel like our modern day "bread and circuses" is Doritos and Survivor. Keep people eating energy-draining foods and stuck on the couch to watch "reality" and they'll never bother to revolt.

I've had to educate many fellow liberals who thought it fair to blame poor people for eating junk food, when decent and organic food is ten times the cost. I summed it up this way once: you have one dollar and a hungry kid. Are you going to buy a big pack of junk food that will keep them reasonably satisfied (if unhealthy) all day, or one and a half organic bits of fruit that won't even get them through lunch?

I had a huge argument recently with someone who let's just say isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer who argued that poor people living in urban areas should go door-to-door in suburban areas and ask to borrow patches of land for free so they can grow their own food. This genius grew up on a farm so he doesn't get why everyone can't grow their own. Mmmhm. Yeah, right.







:

My husband and I are happy to pay extra for organic produce and no-antibiotic/no-hormone meat, but we have friends who simply cannot afford to drive to the stores that carry those selections, let alone buy them in sustainable quantities. (And before anyone says they should take public transit, this is Las Vegas where the transit sucks, is expensive, and people literally pass out from heat exhaustion waiting for busses to come).

It seems like the "natural" order of things ought to be that a plain, simple, clean apple is cheap and a box of processed foodbits should be expensive, but that's not how it works.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *corwinegall* 
Our local not-for-profit in the last few years turned for-profit. I'm not sure why, but they are doing much, much better now and are growing like crazy. Everyone is paid a decent wage. I don't know the particulars, but I can only say that "for-profit" doesn't nesc. mean bad.

No, it doesn't. People have a lot of misconceptions about what non-profit means. Most non-profits in the US fall under the 501c3 designation. 501c3 is a tax designation and that's about it. It simply dictates how money that comes in can be used in terms of what would otherwise be taxable revenue. So there are limitations (ie a 501c3 can't do direct political campaigning, so while they can say, "We support candidates who have this position" they can't say, "Vote for Joe Blow."), but there isn't anything that says they have to be sensible, effective, or in any way doing the activism they are assumed to be doing.

I worked/volunteered for a non-profit for a couple of years and quit when I found out that my efforts were going to waste because my boss wasn't doing anything other than sitting around and whining about the sorry state of our issue. She was also campaigning for a candidate out of her office (who actually was against our cause!) and wanted me to do all kinds of party-specific stuff that isn't allowed under the 501c3 designation (ie cull lists to include only Democrats, when Republicans in our state are equally in favour of our cause).

I can tell you firsthand that being non-profit doesn't mean squat in terms of getting anything done. And being for-profit doesn't mean a bunch of greedy stinkers rolling in dough. In fact, I knew a guy who was running one of the early overseas microcredit lending services and he deliberately set up his organization to be for-profit because the non-profit rules would have blocked a lot of his efforts. But he turned around 100% of the profit to further his cause (ie taking no pay himself), so in that regard he was doing more for the cause than many non-profits I've been personally involved with.

It's important to independently research and verify any organization based on what they're actually DOING rather than their tax status.

My new rule is if I see activism in progress, I may donate or volunteer, but I on longer give/work based on promises of intention to be active.


----------



## Manonash

Thanks for that information Kimberley! wow, you know a lot of stuff! I think that's a great standard for donation, too.


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## ramlita

Re: Non-profits- Yeah, I'm right behind you!!!!!!

I was thinking in terms of where to get food.
CSAs, coops, buying clubs, local farmers.

Non-profits for theoretical _causes_ have taken years off of my life.









And yeah, so many don't pay a living wage to people working their tails off.
I still shop at coops, but hope to not work at one for a long, long time. I was General Manager of one for a couple of years, and in that time, I came to realize that (IMO) food coops need to be either TINY or the size of supermarkets. Tiny, so that everything that happens is tailored to the specific, active members involved, or Huge so that it's possible to achieve true economy of scale- affordable prices and good selection so the _whole_ town will shop there, so employees can get the benefits everyone deserves.

Farmers aren't technically non-profit, but did you hear about the farmer who won 2 million dollars?
They asked her, What are you going to do now???
Answer:
Keep farmin' till I go broke!


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## EnviroBecca

Thanks for the roofing info. I am sure we couldn't do a sod roof, because our house is 85 years old and definitely not designed for the extra weight.

We have Whole Foods here, but I rarely go there--only when looking for something that isn't carried by my food co-op, supermarket, or Trader Joe's. Here's why I don't like Whole Foods:
1. The ritzy, snobbish style puts me off; I feel like I am paying for decor. (Their prices are similar to the co-op's, despite economies of scale!)
2. Our local store, at least, reeks of raw fish! I do eat fish, but that doesn't mean I like the smell, and it creeps me out that a place selling sushi would have such a strong odor.
3. Their store brand (365) products vary in naturalness; many are no different from supermarket store brand, except that they cost 3 times as much! You can't trust them and have to read labels carefully.
4. They brag about being so community-involved yet refuse to let Girl Scouts sell cookies outside the store.







:
5. They located in a virtually all-black neighborhood where lots of land is available for urban renewal and many new businesses have opened in the past five years. All the other businesses appear to have hired people from the local area, but Whole Foods' employees are almost all white and priveleged-looking. (Not that I have any stats on this







it's just my impression.)


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## counterGOPI

oh i want to join!! dh,dd and i are all vegan. we have a nice organic garen we ar trying to live off of. dd eats and wears organic items only.umm we dont use plastic anything,we make our own cleaning solutions,etc etc...


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## beanma

hey y'all,

i had a small GREEN brainstorm i thought i'd share with y'all. we belong to a CSA which is wonderful, but it means i'm washing a buncha buncha greens and i felt bad about wasting all that wash water by dumping it down the drain. we don't have a rain barrel, but i had the bright idea







of getting one of the giant plastic totes dh bought (not my idea) and dumping the rinse water in there. i have the thing out on my deck so it's right near my plants that need watering. i hope the mosquitos don't get in it, but i plugged up all the air holes i could find. i think it's going to work.


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## snozzberry

cool, beanma!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
They brag about being so community-involved yet refuse to let Girl Scouts sell cookies outside the store.







:

That's weird...I think there were Girl Scouts outside our local Whole Foods. I wonder if it's a per-manager thing?


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## Manonash

I'm cross-posting this here from MHM:

We broke a CFL at my grandmothers house. It was in the living room over a loose shag carpet. It shatterered into thousands of tiny pieces (hit a coffee table). I swept up all the pieces I could see with a hand broom, is it ok to vacuum now, or is there something else I need to do first? I looked online and it said 1) don't breathe the vapors (not sure if I did or not, since it was over and done before I realized), 2) clean up with a damp paper cloth (how do you do that on carpet), 3) don't vacuum it up (again, it's carpet, it will need to be vacuumed). Does that mean not to vacuum up the large pieces, or what? She's ready to vacuum that spot, and I want to make sure it's safe to first. I'm sure I'm being way overly obsessive (OCD) about this, but wanted to ask anyway. TIA!
Also, what do I do with it? I looked on earth911 and there are no recycling places within 100miles of here that I could find. there are some national ones, am I supposed to mail it?

The talk about how much trash we generate made me wonder about us. I don't think we create much compared with our neighbors, but I thought I'd date our trash can and see, so I used an eye pencil and wrote the date we changed the bag on the front. It now makes it a challenge to see how long I can go before we need to change it.


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## solomom

Subbing!!


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## solomom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
hey y'all,

i had a small GREEN brainstorm i thought i'd share with y'all. we belong to a CSA which is wonderful, but it means i'm washing a buncha buncha greens and i felt bad about wasting all that wash water by dumping it down the drain. we don't have a rain barrel, but i had the bright idea







of getting one of the giant plastic totes dh bought (not my idea) and dumping the rinse water in there. i have the thing out on my deck so it's right near my plants that need watering. i hope the mosquitos don't get in it, but i plugged up all the air holes i could find. i think it's going to work.

hey this just got me thinking, we are moving into a new place and partially helping to set it up. I wonder if, plumbingwise, I can set up a kitchen (and whatever else) sink diversion. You know, add a little tap switch along the pipe line and separate any water that i know doesnt have (eco)soap and (eco) shampoo etc, into a separate holding tank for watering the garden??


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## kimberlychapman

Whole Foods: we go occasionally but it's more expensive than Wild Oats and Trader Joe's.

And frankly I'm really uncomfortable with the soliciting that goes on outside of Vons, including kiddie groups, so I'm not at all concerned if they've said no to groups doing that in front of their stores. When I was a Girl Guide we had to sell our cookies door-to-door and bloody well do our own legwork, not jump on people trying to do shopping. Plus the girls outside the Vons near us lately are REALLY RUDE. I wouldn't take their stuff for free.

Wild Oats: I'd shop there a whole lot more if they'd put the stinky crap away or at least stop burning it. Gahhh...I'm sick of trying to be a liberal greenie and having to deal with incense and candles and crap! I'm allergic, damnit! My husband does the WO shopping and I can't even be close to HIM for an hour after he gets home because of that stink.

Oh and don't get me started on that non-profit I worked for and how other employees/volunteers would insist on burning incense that gave me huge headaches because it was THEIR preference but boy oh boy if a smoker came within 30' of the office they'd freak out...I didn't want the smoke around either but how hypocritical...but I digress...

Trader Joe's: lots of great products for great prices but insufficient selection in some areas and our local store seems to constantly have mould issues, so any time we buy plants there they succumb to mould fast. And their bread/produce seems to go off faster as well. Ick. But if you go on the right day they sell huge whole chickens for roasting that are all hormone-free etc., so that's our preference for holiday dinners.

Speaking of TJ's, I noticed last week that they now have signs up encouraging bag re-use. I think you get entered into a contest for bringing back their bags. Now that we've got a second vehicle so I'm not house-bound anymore (before anyone snarks me, it's a PRIUS! And public transit is practically unusable in Vegas), I'll be doing the TJ shopping (but not Wild Oats, because of the smell) and I was planning to use cloth bags anyway. But I'll happily return the piles of brown TJ bags in our garage to them!

Oh, and did I mention we bought a Prius?





















:







:

In other news, check this out, my webhost has just bought a bunch of carbon offsets to make themselves a green provider:

http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?11070...rlychapman.com

So I'll actually bother to put up their icon on my pages when I get a chance. Woohoo for random greening!


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *solomom* 
hey this just got me thinking, we are moving into a new place and partially helping to set it up. I wonder if, plumbingwise, I can set up a kitchen (and whatever else) sink diversion. You know, add a little tap switch along the pipe line and separate any water that i know doesnt have (eco)soap and (eco) shampoo etc, into a separate holding tank for watering the garden??

That sounds cool. I'd bet there are plans for such things out there on the web!

We keep a pitcher next to the sink to catch the water that comes before the warm kicks in (when it's unwanted, anyway). In the winter, the water mostly goes into the pot on top of the wood stove, but in summer it waters plants.

I'd love to have a way to catch water from the washing machine so it could supply our toilets for flushing. But then, the washer is on the first floor, so our two toilets are either level with or _above_ it.








Oh, to build our own house so all of this could be made to work out...

Someone on this tribe mentioned making soap, and I wanted to mention baking soda.
I don't use soap in the shower at all anymore- it was drying out my skin and making me itch all the time, especially during winter. I just rub about a tablespoon of baking soda into each armpit, and it makes me feel and smell clean. Actually, I get smelly much less quickly after using BS than when I was using soap- and I don't use deodorant.
I use a tiny bit on my face where it gets greasy, too, and like it better than anything else I've used.
I also rub it into my greasy hair before using shampoo. It used to take me 2-3 shampoos to get it clean, but now I just do the BS, then one shampoo.
Now I'm forgetting if we're talking about being frugal or being green, but luckily they overlap a lot


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## catcobalt

Quote:


Originally Posted by *solomom* 
hey this just got me thinking, we are moving into a new place and partially helping to set it up. I wonder if, plumbingwise, I can set up a kitchen (and whatever else) sink diversion. You know, add a little tap switch along the pipe line and separate any water that i know doesnt have (eco)soap and (eco) shampoo etc, into a separate holding tank for watering the garden??











Check out this:

http://www.envirosink.com/enviro.htm

Its flexible--whether or not you need to divert into an interior tank or can divert into an exterior grey water system. So it might also work for those who want to retrofit an existing system.

Kat


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## mommymaemae

It is my understanding that Whole Foods has recently acquired Wild Oats. As a former employee of both corps. I am sad... I like having diversity in the natural food world. Hopefully it will at least be good for my stock!


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
Oh, and did I mention we bought a Prius?





















:







:

YAY! My mom has one, I love to drive it, although I could stare at the computer screen showing what the engines/battery are doing to the point of distraction while driving









I'm very excited for you...


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
YAY! My mom has one, I love to drive it, although I could stare at the computer screen showing what the engines/battery are doing to the point of distraction while driving









I'm very excited for you...









The screen actually makes me nauseous since I'm very prone to motion sickness, so part of my husband getting it for himself for commuting (I'm getting the Civic for myself and the baby for occasional trips, and that's how I wanted it even though he offered for me to be the one to get a new car) is the deal that whenever I'm in the car, the car isn't allowed to move until the screen is off (except for reverse when it has the camera on and can't be turned off).

We looked at the Honda Fit as well but the mileage difference is so high that we'll recoup the difference in about 7 years if gas prices don't go any higher than last year, and they obviously will.

I'm also concerned about screens like that and how safe they are for driving, like people on cell phones (don't get me started), but hubby has promised to be safe and sensible.

It does feel GOOD to get something that wastes less and pollutes less. Wish everyone could afford it. Heck, I wish everyone could afford even better technology with zero emissions and zero waste! Maybe one day...


----------



## Manonash

Kimberly, congrats on the Prius!

I'm reading Omnivores Dilemma right now. Great book -- Really motivating!

I've also been reading the Square Foot Gardening book. Can't get more local than growin the food myself







.

Oh, I made the produce bags from an old bath scrunchie thingie, and they work great. And I can just stuff all of them into one other one to carry in my canvas bag. Mom picked me up a couple more canvas bags at a block sale last weekend, too. I only had one. I have 5 Chico bags that I LOVE, but the canvas ones will hold more.


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## Katia

our CSA membership begins tomorrow. i can't wait!

about saving grey water for the garden....we have to run a dehumidifier in our house due to excess moisture. when the tank is full, i use it to water the garden, as the cold water in dd's bath, or i dump it into the washer as i start a load of laundry.

it has been fabulous clothesline drying weather here! i have been drying everything on the line, including the cloth diapers, but i have had to toss those into the dryer for a 5 minutes or so to reduce the cardboard quality they get when line dried!

i will be becoming a SAHM at the end of this year due to my grant funded job ending AND the arrival of our second child. as a result, we are trying to cut our budget without compromising some of the greener things we are trying to do. (sometimes "green" and "frugal" coincide. sometimes they don't.) anyway, we are thinking to move our dd to a closer preschool half days, to reduce cost AND so that we can WALK there. yay.


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## ErikaLeigh

Good for you on cutting the budget some and being more green! I LOVE it!


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## kimberlychapman

Hey Katia, that's a great idea for the dehumidifier water.

Mind you, we have the opposite problem: extreme dry air that requires a humidifier all year around, and we've been through several as they die, always trying to find ones that require less waste in terms of wicks. We have extremely hard water as well, so the metal-based wicks are useless. We had a model with one of those that was supposed to require cleaning every 6 months to one year, but if I didn't totally vinegar-soak and then scrub it every two weeks, the motor would get full of scale dust and die. The manufacturer told us to use conditioner so we did and that killed it too, so they sent us another unit (after much arguing) and that one also clogged up and died.

The sonic one spread so much white dust even with the filter in place that our air system intake filters got super-clogged in days, which is horrible energy use.

So we went back to disposable filters for awhile, but then about 6 months ago found a Bionaire at Costco that has washable wick filters. I still have to clean those far more often than recommended and do gobs of vinegar soaking to get the scale off (the vinegar actually foams, there's so much scale!), but it's okay otherwise. Sadly, the disposable wicks are still by far the best performers.

Incidentally, speaking of air-system filters, after the sonic humidifier fiasco we discovered some washable AC/heating filters at Home Despot for I think US$15ish each. Given that any halfway decent disposable ones are about $8 and up, that's a good deal. Just spray them off with the garden hose, let 'em dry, and they're good to reuse. We're very happy with them.


----------



## treefolk

off to Home Depot for those washable filters.....great advice!

I am in the process of reading Barbara Kingsolvers new book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle ---- it has changed my life!!!
I have really been on a kick for local foods for awhile now, but had a hard time reading through the miles of stats of how much fuel/calories are used for my beloved bananas to get to my table. This book is by far the most informative book that reads almost like a novel. For some reason, the info has just really hit me hard. I could talk for hours about it but I'll just leave it at that and tell you all to go READ IT!!!









We are also finally just a few days away from opening up our cafe that serves most of dishes with local, pesticide-free produce/dairy/meats. We are using local- green companies for about 85% of the cafe's needs, including toilet paper, napkins, baked goods, etc. We are even trying to use corn-plastic takeout containers! check us out at www.myspace.com/newdaycafe


----------



## WeasleyMum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treefolk* 
off to Home Depot for those washable filters.....great advice!

I am in the process of reading Barbara Kingsolvers new book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle ---- it has changed my life!!!
I have really been on a kick for local foods for awhile now, but had a hard time reading through the miles of stats of how much fuel/calories are used for my beloved bananas to get to my table. This book is by far the most informative book that reads almost like a novel. For some reason, the info has just really hit me hard. I could talk for hours about it but I'll just leave it at that and tell you all to go READ IT!!!









We are also finally just a few days away from opening up our cafe that serves most of dishes with local, pesticide-free produce/dairy/meats. We are using local- green companies for about 85% of the cafe's needs, including toilet paper, napkins, baked goods, etc. We are even trying to use corn-plastic takeout containers! check us out at www.myspace.com/newdaycafe

I have to second the book review-- I just finished _Animal, Vegetable, Miracle_ and it is amazing. Read it, read it, read it.


----------



## ErikaLeigh

What is the purpose of using the air humidifiers?


----------



## Alcyone

I have to use a humidifier in the winter, because if I don't, petting my cats creates a ton of static electricity, and I'll get a nosebleed practically every night.


----------



## ramlita

I hadn't heard there was a new Kingsolver book!!!!!!









Thanks for the tip!







:


----------



## cupofjojo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
hey y'all,

i had a small GREEN brainstorm i thought i'd share with y'all. we belong to a CSA which is wonderful, but it means i'm washing a buncha buncha greens and i felt bad about wasting all that wash water by dumping it down the drain. .

Another area we saw water go down the drain was taking our morning showers. For some odd reason we don't have and can't install a regulator for our pipes so it takes a few minutes for the hot water to get upstairs.

I now put a 5 gallon bucket under the bath faucet and let it fill up. We then use that water to water plants, rinse veggies, etc.

I'm liking the idea of using the water again after I rinse my veggies to water the plants !


----------



## aah5

Subbing! lots of great ideas here.


----------



## ErikaLeigh

Jump on in and give us yours too!!!


----------



## pixiewytch

Hey everybody, I'm glad to finally come on board. Let me tell you that I thought we were doing a pretty spiffy job here at home with being green until I read this thread. There are so many great ideas here and I'm glad to see other folks sharing them. I hate to say it but magazines like Mother Earth News need to have more articles with these type of simple ideas for regular folks instead of more articles on expensive hybrids and outfitting fancy homes with solar. I think I have found more practical ideas here that I can use than I have the entire time I've had a subscription to their magazine..seriously.

So anyway, we do what we can and renting has been a real hindrance for me. This isn't really my yard so I am ashamed to say that I haven't planted anything, aside from the fact that I have less than a green thumb. I don't like potted plants because they always outgrow the pots and you have to keep transferring them. I've been interested in getting one of those earthboxes for a number of years though. They are supposed to be practically foolproof and yield a pretty large crop from a container. Anyone use them before?

I really, really need to compost again. When I did have a yard with plants I had a box but I haven't seen the use of one without a garden. The other day though I heard a radio program talking about having a small countertop compost container, even in an apartment. Can someone here share with me how that works?

Right now we use mama and baby cloth, use curbside recycling, buy all recycled paper products from our green supermarket brand which makes me feel good because it supports the local economy as wellbut I really need to get on this household cloth bandwagon. I use canvas bags when I can remember (glad to know I'm not the only one who forgets these, haha). We walk whenever possible despite living in a non walkable city. My husband drives a little geo metro for his work commute. Hybrids don't have nothing on these little cars, baby.







We camp a lot and we always bring dishes from home instead of paper plates and utensils. We just replaced all of our bulbs with CFC's. I keep the thermostat on 80 (we live in hot humid Fl) and use fans a lot. I use a clothesline and we try to wear our clothes multiple times before washing. I try to buy products with less packaging.

I don't know, we do what we can, you know? I have a bad habit of reading threads like this and getting overwhelmed and giving up but I know I have to take one step at a time....okay, off to the green living challenge with that thought.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Right now we use mama and baby cloth, use curbside recycling, buy all recycled paper products from our green supermarket brand which makes me feel good because it supports the local economy as wellbut I really need to get on this household cloth bandwagon. I use canvas bags when I can remember (glad to know I'm not the only one who forgets these, haha). We walk whenever possible despite living in a non walkable city. My husband drives a little geo metro for his work commute. Hybrids don't have nothing on these little cars, baby.







We camp a lot and we always bring dishes from home instead of paper plates and utensils. We just replaced all of our bulbs with CFC's. I keep the thermostat on 80 (we live in hot humid Fl) and use fans a lot. I use a clothesline and we try to wear our clothes multiple times before washing. I try to buy products with less packaging.

I don't know, we do what we can, you know? I have a bad habit of reading threads like this and getting overwhelmed and giving up but I know I have to take one step at a time....okay, off to the green living challenge with that thought.









Wow, you're doing A LOT!!!









No guilt in this thread. We all do what we can and strive to do even more when we can fit it in. It helps me to think of it as a lifelong journey of learning, making changes, and adapting.

Welcome to the thread!


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## treefolk

I sometimes feel this way too pixiewytch, but I remind myself how much impact the small things have. Read up on *those* statistics! Adding little things here and there is how most of those folks you read about in Mother Earth are got started ---- they are true blessings to our world, but even us regular folks make a HUGE difference. I'm no good at #'s but I know just replacing light bulbs makes a big change. Imagine if just 1/2 the country did this!

I, too have a purple thumb...I'm slowly trying though. But going to local farmers markets and supporting others is great too. It supports a livelihood of small farming that is slowly disappearing.

Good luck w/everything!


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 

I don't know, we do what we can, you know? I have a bad habit of reading threads like this and getting overwhelmed and giving up but I know I have to take one step at a time....okay, off to the green living challenge with that thought.










Sounds like you are ready to give up that habit!









Just look at it as inspiration and ideas to grow into! We are always growing and changing and it wouldn't make sense for us to have it all together "right now". It is a process. Plus, by the time you do implement an idea you have heard here you do it with the knowledge and experience that comes from watching others and learning from their mistakes.

You sounds like you do a lot. Focus on that!


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErikaLeigh* 
What is the purpose of using the air humidifiers?

To add moisture to overly dry air, which in turn eases breathing, helps with some skin problems, promotes better/faster healing with colds and flus, helps with some allergies, reduces static electricity (which can be dangerous to computer equipment), etc.

We live in Las Vegas where typical daily humidity is less than 10%. We feel like it's "muggy" when it hits 30%. I get nosebleeds like crazy if I don't keep the bedroom humidified, plus because of my frequent colds/allergies I do a lot of mouth-breathing at night so if the air is dry I end up with a hacking cough and apneas that keep me up all night. We also like the side effect of the white noise to drown out our insane neighbours who drive loud vehicles screaming down the road all hours of the night.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
I hate to say it but magazines like Mother Earth News need to have more articles with these type of simple ideas for regular folks instead of more articles on expensive hybrids and outfitting fancy homes with solar.

That's the problem I've found with enviro mags too. They're either hopelessly basic (have you heard of compact fluorescent light bulbs? Duh.) or so over the top that nobody short of Ed Begly Jr. is going to be able to pull it off. And oh the guilt they pile on! While also peddling pseudo-environmental feel-goody overpriced crap. Gahh.

I keep telling my husband that if I wasn't so work-averse, I'd start a magazine for environmentally conscious parents who also have to function in the real world.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
I don't know, we do what we can, you know? I have a bad habit of reading threads like this and getting overwhelmed and giving up but I know I have to take one step at a time....okay, off to the green living challenge with that thought.









I get overwhelmed too, but if everyone did just a little bit the effect would be enormous. Those of us who can do more are helping extra.

I do lots and lots so in the rare cases when I meet someone holier-than-thou about it, I ignore them. Another local activist I know tried to convince me a few weeks ago that it was good that I was housebound without a car because someone else she knows functions without a car entirely (note that this person herself drives, so, total hypocrite!). I bluntly asked, "Does he have a toddler?" She admitted that no, and that he's had to learn that he can only accomplish one task per day because of the amount of walking and waiting for Vegas' craptastic bus system. So I told her that that was not an acceptable lifestyle for me and I ignored her beyond that point. And then we bought the Prius so I can have the Civic, so neener neener to her.









There's always someone who does more, but it doesn't take long until you're pushing the envelope into practical hermitism, so I say do what you can as much as you can and that'll be better than most.









Now, for the real reason I came reading today...another tip that I hope helps someone: instead of using plastic wrap over dishes for leftovers, check and see if your dishes have washable plastic lids available. We found that many Pyrex and Corelle dishes have lids that we can buy here at the Corning-Revere outlet store, including the basic Corelle cereal bowl. The lids for those are a buck something, dishwasherable, and super-easy to use and clean. It's really good for when your toddler demands food and you heat something up and then they eat two bites and reject the rest...just snap a lid over the uneaten portion and toss it in the fridge.

Obviously re-used food tubs like margarine tubs can also be used for storage but despite being labelled as safe for microwaving, it's generally not a good idea to reheat foods in plastic like that. With the Corelle bowls you can go from microwave to toddler to fridge and back through that path again and the lids mean not having to use plastic wrap.

I couldn't find the lids on Corelle's web site, but I googled them and found this link: http://www.loudfrog.com/itemdetail.aspx?detailID=196720 I have no idea if that's a decent store or not, the price is definitely higher than what we pay at the outlet store, but that at least gives you a picture to see what I mean. http://www.corningwarestores.com/ will tell you if there's a factory store near you that might carry the lids.


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## zen-ozz

Kimberly ~ That is a great idea. We rarely use plastic wrap. We have pyrex storage dishes with plastic lids (available at Target) and we also really love these http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=150&f=1693
.

We are lucky enough to live in a city that is totally walkable. We shop at our local natural foods store which is within walking/biking distance. The farmers market is as well. I am really making a concerted effort to walk or bike more to these places, though I must admit that it is hard to plan out the time with four kids. I have to find a way to manage my time better so I can take advantage of the fact that it is so easy to walk around here!

K


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## flowers

zen, where are you in NY? We are relocating to the Finger lakes this coming winter and we bought a house downtown so we could walk to the farmer market, post office, etc.


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## cupofjojo

We have the Crate & Barrell working glasses as well and love them. I like that they fit into my cup holder in the car as well.


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## RaRa7

way way way back some of you were talking about shoes.
I got a Gaiam catalog today and they have 4 0r 5 different styles of Earth shoes 50% off! Thought some of you may be interested...
http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_searchresults.asp


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## zen-ozz

Hillary ~ We are in Saratoga Springs. It is a great little city and has won awards for being pedestrian-friendly, though I think we struggle with that as we grow . . .

I hear the Finger Lakes region is beautiful, though I have not been there. DH and I keep talking about how we would like to travel more in the "local" area. Maybe we need to do a weekend out that way.

K


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## msjd123

Hello everyone! I mainly just lurk here, but I have reading this thread since Part 1, so I hope you don't mind my popping in from time to time with a question.







:

DH and I have started saving for a new car. Currently, we're both driving 12-year old cars, so it's just a matter of time before we'll need a new one and, ideally, we'd like to stay as far away from a car payment as possible. We just paid off a bunch of credit card debt and we're trying to stay as debt-free as possible. That said, it's putting a damper on our car choices.







: I have always wanted a hybrid. I've wanted one since I first heard about them, and that has intensified over time. I mean, honestly, I'd feel kind of funny about *not* buying a hybrid at this point; I think I'd suffer from eco-guilt, if that makes sense. Still, even the used Priuses are up there in price, plus, I kind of wonder how wise it would be to buy an older hybrid since the technology has improved quite a bit even in just the last 5 years. So, used or new, I'm thinking we'd need at least $20K saved in order to be able to pay cash for a Prius or other hybrid. Option #2 is to just buy an older compact car like a Corolla (which is actually what I drive now, and I was seriously hoping for/needing more space) or a newer one like a Yaris or the Nissan Versa and only have to save somewhere between $10K and $15K, thus enabling us to buy a newer car sooner, before one of our current cars really bites the dust.

I just can't decide. Financially, I think I should go with the regular compact car. But environmentally and personally, I really, really feel like a Prius is the better choice. We can only save at the rate of $5K a year, though, so this would take much, much longer to save for. Unless of course we bit the bullet and financed some of it, but we don't want to do that either...... See my dilemma?

Thoughts?


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *msjd123* 
But environmentally and personally, I really, really feel like a Prius is the better choice. We can only save at the rate of $5K a year, though, so this would take much, much longer to save for. Unless of course we bit the bullet and financed some of it, but we don't want to do that either...... See my dilemma?

Thoughts?


We just bought a Prius and had a lot of the same issues. We have never been in debt other than with our mortgage and weren't keen to start. We were looking at the Prius or the Honda Fit because we watched a hatchback in addition to our Civic. If we were replacing the Civic, we'd absolutely have gone for a hybrid Civic.

We went with the Prius even though it was more than the Fit because the Fit's fuel economy was good but still about half of the Prius, going by the real-world testing done by Consumer Reports (don't always believe the sticker listing, because they aren't real-world). Both cars have excellent repair rates and incredibly good resale values with hardly any depreciation. The downside to that is that you won't get a good used deal on either.

In fact, the dealer we bought from had a used Prius that was MORE than a new one because of the added price of the Toyota used car certified warranty!

We did hard negotiations with multiple dealers (see the oh-so-fun stories and what we paid in my journal here: http://kimberlychapman.livejournal.com/tag/car ) and ended up with a good price, but we put $10,000 down and we have insanely good credit scores (in the 800s).

My husband is mostly happy with it (he's the one driving it) but he has said the Civic still handles better overall. So it might be worth looking at the hybrid Civic if you don't need the hatchback.

On that Corelle lid issue, I contacted the company (or rather the official online store, World Kitchen) and told them I'd been recommending their lids and was disappointed that I couldn't provide a link on a forum, so they told me to pass on the following information:

Please be advised that you can contact us at the number below to place a phone order for these covers. The item number is 7250919 and they are $0.99 each.

For further assistance, please contact our Consumer Care Center at
800-999-3436. Representatives are available from 8am to 6pm, EST,
Monday through Thursday and 8am to 5pm on Friday, and will be more than
happy to assist you.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually ordered through this store, I bought mine in a local store, so caveat emptor and all of that. But the lids really are great if you have the Corelle cereal bowls.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *msjd123* 
I just can't decide. Financially, I think I should go with the regular compact car. But environmentally and personally, I really, really feel like a Prius is the better choice. We can only save at the rate of $5K a year, though, so this would take much, much longer to save for. Unless of course we bit the bullet and financed some of it, but we don't want to do that either...... See my dilemma?

Thoughts?

We'll be in the market for a slightly larger car in a couple years to fit our 3 dogs and (hopefully) our DC. So I think we're going to be struggling through this *exact* decision!

I don't have any words of wisdom, but it might help to make a pros and cons list and see how it weighs out for you. Besides the obvious gas mileage pro on the Prius side, I would also feel good about supporting a market for *fuel-efficient* hybrids (as opposed to all those lame SUV hybrids that get 30 mpg if you're lucky).

I can definitely understand where you're coming from on the $ issue. We just recently paid off all our debt except the house. Do you drive a lot for work or anything? I wonder how much $ you'd save in gas costs with the Prius the first year. If you currently fill up with 10 g once a week and the Prius triples your gas mileage, that's 34 fill-ups you'd be saving. At $3/g, that would save about $1000 a year. Not a lot, but it could help a little maybe? Also, have you factored in the tax deduction you get for buying a hybrid? I think that's $1000 or so? I've also seen Prius ads recently that say they're currently offering up to $2000 in savings off the normal price.

And finally, are you spending a lot on upkeep of your older vehicles right now? Even if you're just spending $1000-2000 a year, you can factor that in too. I guess what I'm saying is, think about all this stuff that wouldn't take effect til after you buy the vehicle and see how it impacts your pocketbook. For example, if you find that you'll get $5000 in savings from these various things the first year, you could always save up all but $5000 and then pay that off the first year.


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## Perdita_in_Ontario

Hi - I don't have any huge words of wisdom about the car issue - but it might be worth analyzing the kind of driving that you do and whether hybrids are going to help with that. We were considering a hybrid before we bought our latest car, but realized that with the type of driving we do, we wouldn't actually take advantage of the hybrid. Unfortunately, DH is the "car guy" and I couldn't care less about cars in general, so I can't remember _why_, but we drive 30km into the city every day and for some reason a small fuel-efficient car was actually as good or better for us than a hybrid.

If this rings a bell for anyone, or if this is no longer true with the newer hybrids, please let me know!

P


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## MBFoley

Wow. I subbed to this thread a few days ago and started reading, just now made it to the end lol. A few posts in I got out a notebook and pen to take notes lol. I am relatively new to green living. I have always felt like I should but never actually did anything about it, last year I started trying to do a few things here and there. Then I met my fiance and he is pretty green so it totally inspired me to do much better. I am loving all these ideas and look forward to seeing what kinds of things I can incorporate into our household and our lives. Thanks all and I look forward to lots more great ideas!

Some of the things we already do -

organic gardening and are members of our local co-op, all paper products in our house are already recycled stuff but I have gone to cloth tp (and am glad to see others have as well. I came up with it on my own and didn't know others did this as well, it took me a few days to quit feeling funny about it but now I like it!), I have gone to making my own washable pads instead of the tampons I always used (Tampax no less







: ), we raise chickens for eggs now & when we have more land we will have more livestock for meat, we recycle all recycleables (though we have to save it all up and drive it into town to drop it off), I finally got my clothesline up a few weeks ago and have been loving my clothes smelling like sunshine







, oh I know there is more but my brain is spinning right now lol.


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## snozzberry

Welcome, Michelle!


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## msjd123

Thanks for the feedback!

Snozzberry, we a re fortunate enough to live super close to work and to pretty much everything we need on a regular basis, so almost all of our driving is city driving. From what I understand, the Prius is running all electric when it's under 35 mph, so even though we don't spend a ton on gas as it is ($130/month for both cars together), I think it would eefinitely make a difference. As it is, we're not yet paying too much on repairs for our older cars, but I have a feeling that will start to change soon, which is why we've started saving now.

Kimberly, thanks for the info! I don't think a Civic would be the best choice for us because I really love the Prius's hatchback and the way you can fold the seats down. Even if it weren't a hybrid, I'd find that very appealing.

Aaaaaah, it's so hard to wait! DH keeps joking that we should take my poor little Corolla off-roading this summer just to drive it into the ground, and then we'll "have" to get a new car.







:







Um, no!!!


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## delfuego

hi there! new to the thread... and subscribing!

thanks for all the great ideas mamas and big







to all of you! glad to know i'm not as weird as i sometimes feel... living in utah. funny, you would think that the most "conservative" state in the nation would be more into conserving.

my partner and i are starting an affordable sustainable housing company building out of the waste stream... first project uses shipping containers and paper! love the household ideas, especially the graywater stuff you've been doing. wouldn't it be great if all houses were just built so that you could reuse your graywater?

i haven't read through the entire thread yet, that will take some time... but if any of you have any suggestions or resources please shoot them my way. y'all are the experts and i would love ideas on what features you would like to see in an ideal new house.

love! and thanks again!


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Besides the obvious gas mileage pro on the Prius side, I would also feel good about supporting a market for *fuel-efficient* hybrids (as opposed to all those lame SUV hybrids that get 30 mpg if you're lucky).

That was part of it for us. When it's feasible, we try to reward companies who do things we like, be they greenie things, community support things (and I mean real stuff, not the fake photo-ops many companies do while simultaneously eroding communities), paying workers well, etc. We don't go overboard or anything, but if a given product has a counterpart for close to the same price and the company is well-behaved, we'll go that route. Or we'll buy from some stores even if they're slightly more expensive (not if it's gobs more) because they treat workers fairly, like Costco.

We wanted our car-buying dollars to send a strong message that fuel economy is much more important than styling. We made it a point to tell the Toyota dealers constantly that it was all about fuel economy, because that kind of thing can leak upwards into the company.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Perdita_in_Ontario* 
We were considering a hybrid before we bought our latest car, but realized that with the type of driving we do, we wouldn't actually take advantage of the hybrid.

It depends on what you mean by "type of driving". If you mean city versus highway, then yes, the Prius is better in city driving whereas most cars are better on the highway. That's because the gas shuts off when you stop at each light.

But in our research, the Prius' highway mileage was still significantly better than the other cars we were looking at. I think the sticker listed highway of 50 for the Prius and 40-something for the Fit, and when my husband checked the real-world numbers from Consumer Reports the Prius still came ahead in both.

But "type of driving" can also mean one's style of driving. Lead-footed drivers will not get as good mileage out of a Prius as those with a gentler touch (of course that goes for regular cars too). My husband isn't particularly lead-footed anyway, but he says as he drives the Prius he's learning little tricks on how to maximize fuel efficiency in terms of how to drive it so the gas engine doesn't have to come on as often.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
y'all are the experts and i would love ideas on what features you would like to see in an ideal new house.

OMG, I could be here all night typing out what I'd want! But some quickie major things: energy efficiency in terms of climate control, which means everything from good insulation and windows to properly placed awnings and solar screens and all of that. Water management, not just gray water use but high-quality faucets that don't drip and waste. Not just low-flow toilets but again good ones that are less prone to leakage. Sensible landscaping, not just xerascape but also properly placed shade trees and all of that. Low-dust floor coverings that also are kid-friendly (ie my in-laws have all slate floors which look great and are easy to keep clean but their infant had less than a grand time learning to walk, and they've had to install a bunch of rugs to give him a place to play). Things that reduce allergens tend to also be good for eco-reasons, but again, only if properly implemented.

And of course all of my dream-home things are items that cost significantly more up front but save money overall, which makes them unsuitable for the general population that prefers the illusion of savings.


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## beanma

we've been pretty happy with our diesels and biodiesel in 'em. can't type long now, but it migh be worth considering. we get about 39 mpg running B100.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
y'all are the experts and i would love ideas on what features you would like to see in an ideal new house.

Welcome!

I'd have to add: NO PARTICLEBOARD! It offgasses formaldehyde, and it's in just about everything "wood" in houses nowadays. Also: no-VOC paint, solar screens on all windows, maybe an attic fan to use as an AC alternative except when it's super hot.

It's fun to think of this stuff!


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## Nico DeMouse

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
... maybe an attic fan to use as an AC alternative except when it's super hot.

I have a question about attic fans...DH and I have seem some cool solar ones and are interested in maybe installing one in our attic. DO you need to leave your attic door open for these to work? With four kitties, we always keep the attic door closed because we don't think it's safe for the fur babies to get up there and play.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nico DeMouse* 
I have a question about attic fans...DH and I have seem some cool solar ones and are interested in maybe installing one in our attic. DO you need to leave your attic door open for these to work? With four kitties, we always keep the attic door closed because we don't think it's safe for the fur babies to get up there and play.

The way ours works is that we have a vent in the ceiling below the attic. We have a knob on the wall to control it. Depending on how far we turn it, the vent opens up further and the speed of the air increases. Then we open up the windows a crack and it's like a nice cool breeze, even on a really hot day! We never have to actually open up the attic or anything.


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## delfuego

Love my biodiesel too Beanma... I think it's the way to go! I wish that we could a diesel hybrid in the states!


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## delfuego

Thanks for all the great input mamas... keep it coming!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
And of course all of my dream-home things are items that cost significantly more up front but save money overall, which makes them unsuitable for the general population that prefers the illusion of savings.

Actually, one of the great things about designing a house from the wastestream is that we are saving soooooooooooooooo much money on the structure we can afford to spend more on healthy eco-friendly systems and finishes and still provide a competitive market value home.

And, all the passive solar features don't cost extra if they are designed into the home to begin with. So, keep the dream alive and tell me more (don't worry about if you think it costs too much)!


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## kimberlychapman

Well we'd absolutely buy a house that had a solar energy system and/or solar hot water system over one that didn't. And we'd buy those things to put on our house if they were within our price range, which they aren't.

Out of curiosity, do you know which is better for energy efficiency...many small rooms or less rooms that are bigger? Our ideal house would have very small bedrooms (enough for bed, clothing storage, night tables, maybe a bookshelf, that's it), but a large open kitchen/dining/living room area. We'd also want one other closed-off room as the computer room/den, so TV noise wouldn't interfere with people on computers (ie I can't write if I hear the TV). But the houses around here are generally the opposite...large bedrooms with small living rooms. And small, ineffective kitchens seem to be the norm these days, whereas we cook a lot and want lots of pantry, counter, and appliance space.

Do you know if either type has better energy usage? Is it better to have multiple vents blowing into a large room or several small rooms with one vent each?


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## treefolk

I can only give you my experience on the open floor plan.....

we have a a very open floor plan - the kitchen, "big room" (which is living and dining area) and playroom/sunroom and than various little niches are all open. Bedrooms and bathroom are kinda of off shoots in all directions, with one staircase leading to a "tower room" that we call the treehouse because it is literally 4 walls of windows. I love this set up because it gives us a lot more usuable space than our actually square footage, BUT it is not very efficient for wood heat. I think the most efficient would be a squarish or rectangular 2 or 3 story house or at least have loft area where rising heat would have a purpose. It's all give an take of course! Our wood stove is not so efficient in heating the whole house, but my kids can ride their bikes all through the house in the winter when we are snowed in!


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## delfuego

It actually depends more on the orientation of the house and having windows/thermal mass in the proper places more than anything else. It also depends on the climate.

Since you live in Las Vegas I would definitely go with an open floor plan. Like Treefolk suggested, two stories gives the warm air a place to go and if you put the bedrooms on the second floor they will stay warmer at night when the temperature cools down. Ceiling fans are very important and high windows to vent unwanted heat and also to create proper airflow through the house.

Of course, the very most important thing is to have the proper solar orientation - that means:

*long side north/south
*minimize windows on east and west... they are impossible to shade properly
*usually you would want no windows on north but that isn't as important in vegas as you don't really have to worry much about heat loss
*south facing windows should be shaded with generous overhangs to block direct sun in the summer
*deciduous trees on the south side of the house would be very good for your climate as you really want to shade the whole south wall

I hope that helps a little. You're right that most homes built in the past century and especially in the last 10-20 years are very poorly designed and inefficient. Good luck finding something that works though. If you plan to build your own house I can point you to some very good resources on design for your climate.


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## loraxc

Quick question for the tribe:

Our a/c system discharges water outside periodically. I've put a container underneath the discharge pipe to catch it so I can reuse the water to water the vegetable garden. BUt does anyone know if this is safe?


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## EnviroBecca

My dream house would have a sleeping porch (screened, on upper floor) for cool breezy sleeping in the hottest weather. Which side of the house you'd put it on would depend on the intended wintertime use of the space: On the south, it would be warmish despite having so many windows, so you could heat it and keep plants in there. On the north, it would be cold and could be used only as slightly sheltered outdoor space (maybe for drying laundry) but would buffer heat loss from the rest of the house.


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Quick question for the tribe:

Our a/c system discharges water outside periodically. I've put a container underneath the discharge pipe to catch it so I can reuse the water to water the vegetable garden. BUt does anyone know if this is safe?

I have no scientific reason, but my intuition says not cool. I will try and do some research quick though.


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## 59046

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Quick question for the tribe:

Our a/c system discharges water outside periodically. I've put a container underneath the discharge pipe to catch it so I can reuse the water to water the vegetable garden. BUt does anyone know if this is safe?

I would use it to water flowers or grass, but not plants that I would later eat. I would do the same with any water that had been through a mechanical item. (Dehumidifier for example.)


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## beanma

i'd think the AC water would be fine. it's just condensation if i'm not mistaken. we use our dehumidifier water on our plants, but maybe we're not as cautious as some. unless your condensation line is lead or something i would think it would be a-okay and a good use of drip water.


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## zen-ozz

I would only use the AC discharge to water non-edible plants. ACs actually pull a lot of impurities our of the air, along with humidity. This water is not safe to use of you are going to be eating the vegetation you are watering.


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## beanma

trying to find more info on the AC condensation water i came across this -- http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/A_2fC...ation_20coffee -- anyone want to make coffee from your car's AC condensation?


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## dianamerrell

:


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## jlazx2

:


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## pixiewytch

Okay, since I see all this talk of cars, help me figure out the best investment for our family. Both of our cars are old junky cars at this point (although DH's geo metro is great for gas mileage) and we are reaching a point where we really have to buy a newer car...sooo...first off, I don't think we can really afford a prius. I am fancing the new toyota yaris which isn't a hybrid but is a smaller fuel efficient car modeled from Europe. Then my dream car would be an old mercedes to use biodiesel for but I see those are going toward 10K. Am I wrong here or does it not seem to make sense to pay that much for a really old car when I could buy a brand new one for almost the same price?

So I guess what I'm getting at is that I would love to get off of oil so to speak but how can I do so as economically as possible in a way that makes sense? Each time I look at converting older cars to biodiesel or electric, the cost always seems to end up about as much as a newer car and I feel like I'm back to square one... buying a newer car that runs on oil.

I would love to hear some opinions here.


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## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Then my dream car would be an old mercedes to use biodiesel for but I see those are going toward 10K.











$10,000? Really? Granted it's been almost two years since we bought our mercedes (an '83 and a '78) but we paid $700 for one and $800 for the other. My dp is a car guy so he fixed them both up to driveable condition... not perfect, but driveable. Even last year I was looking at buying the same model as my 83 300 SD but in near-perfect condition with a rebuilt engine and tranny for $3000.

Are you looking specifically for mercedes diesels that have been "converted" to run on biodiesel? If so, that might be the problem. There is no conversion necessary for any diesel to run on biodiesel (there may be some issues with the fuel filter clogging or hoses breaking down depending on what type of diesel you buy). Mercedes diesels, especially, are known for being great cars to run biodiesel in... they were just built that way. If you really want an old mercedes diesel send me an email and I'll give you the scoop on the pros and cons. Otherwise, you can probably get a newer volkswagon diesel and run biodiesel in it.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever buy another gasoline fueled car.


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## pixiewytch

Yep, that's how much I've seen them selling for around here. I am definitely interested in more info about getting one. I'm not a huge VW fan. I had a bus that burnt to the ground a week after I bought it and other folks who have had nothing but problems with theirs, new and old. I also can't get a car that needs to be tinkered around with a lot. We don't mind doing some maintenance type of repairs ourselves but we need reliable transportation to and from work and family gatherings across town. I'm embarrassed to say this but right now I drive around an older Buick. I know, it's a gas guzzler and I only have it because it was basically given to us in exchange for work. I'm a SAHM so I really don't drive it much but the gas is just ridiculous.

So I'm also wondering where and how do you obtain your biodiesel? I know around here we don't have it at gas stations. I'm still really interested in this though. So many others have converted over. I don't see why we can't do it.


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## beanma

pixie, do you mind telling us what state you're in? that would give me more to go on as far as finding you resources. we have a great coop here (www.biofuels.coop) and have B100 available through them at local pumps. i think the VW TDIs are a different breed from your old VW bus, too. was that a gas engine? completely different animal if so. we have two TDIs and have been very happy with them. one we bought used and the other we bought new. we average about 39 mpg of B100. you can check the link in my sig for more info, too.


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 









Personally, I don't think I'll ever buy another gasoline fueled car.

Amen to that! We feel the same way. In fact couldn't even imagine it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Yep, that's how much I've seen them selling for around here. I am definitely interested in more info about getting one. I'm not a huge VW fan. I had a bus that burnt to the ground a week after I bought it and other folks who have had nothing but problems with theirs, new and old. I also can't get a car that needs to be tinkered around with a lot. We don't mind doing some maintenance type of repairs ourselves but we need reliable transportation to and from work and family gatherings across town. I'm embarrassed to say this but right now I drive around an older Buick. I know, it's a gas guzzler and I only have it because it was basically given to us in exchange for work. I'm a SAHM so I really don't drive it much but the gas is just ridiculous.

So I'm also wondering where and how do you obtain your biodiesel? I know around here we don't have it at gas stations. I'm still really interested in this though. So many others have converted over. I don't see why we can't do it.

I think you might be confused about people who run their cars off bio-diesel and people who have their cars converted to run off of WVO (waste vegetable oil). Bio-diesel is still ethanol based that is made up of different components including veg oil which makes it cleaner to burn. Not more affordable though.

You can convert a diesel to run off WVO. Actually diesels were designed to run off corn and peanut oil originally. The reason you have to convert it is because you need to start and shut your car off on regular deisel (or bio) and then switch your car over to running off of WVO after the engine has warmed up. So you convert you car by adding another tank with a filter and switches that let you switch back and forth.

We have been driving on WVO for the past 3 years and it is AMAZING! We collect waste oil for free (that would have been disposed of!) and filter it and then drive around for free. Plus, the air emissions are reduced by upwards 80%. We have a 98 TDI jetta and have never had a problem. We take it to a VW mechanic and keep up with it but man, she is our best friend. She really takes care of the family.

You can check out about conversions at www.greasecar.com.


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## delfuego

:

beanma and flowers pretty much said it all.

here is a link to a map of biodiesel fueling sites across the U.S. it isn't very up to date though... there are quite a few local stations that sell biodiesel that aren't on the map.

http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodi...s/default.shtm

when i first starting running on bd there was nobody in salt lake city that sold it. thanks to a vociferous few customers one station started selling it out of their warehouse and now there are about 5 stations and counting in town that sell various mixes of bd.

my dp and i have both talked stations into selling bd. once people start running on it, they love it. you may have to start by finding a distributor in a nearby city who can work out something w/ a local station. it's becoming sooo common that you can find people almost everywhere that are interested in selling it.... it just takes a little prodding.

also, you might try craigslist for an older mb diesel. you can get one that has been rebuilt and is in good condition (won't require tinkering) for a few thousand. just keep looking... again, you don't have to buy something that has been "converted"... that's most likely a bit of b.s. made up by the seller to get more $ out of their car.

like flowers said, the only "conversion" you need is if you want to run on waste vegetable oil (that's oil straight from the fryer... not refined into biodiesel). actually, i've run my mb on wvo alot _without_ a conversion. i only do it in the summertime though.


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 







:

i've run my mb on wvo alot _without_ a conversion. i only do it in the summertime though.

Key phrase summer, and even then you have to be careful. If the veg oil cools in your engine it can be a messy headache. Of course we live in NE where summers and short and we have plenty of cool evening so I am sure their are warmer places where this can be safely done. In fact the whole system would be awesome in a warmer place b/c in the winter we have to wait quite a while for our car and system to warm up. So often we don't switch it over for shorter trips. But for long trips (like our 2 hour drive north to camp this weekend) we have a permasmile going, radio groovin, and plenty of people honkin, and giving us the thumbs up.

Subsequently, I just heard a news report about people being concerned about everyone switching to vegetable based fuels b/c of the way it would change our whole food/farm economy. They were saying that farmers would want to grow the cash crop rather than food and it would change the whole world's relationship with farming and food. I hear what they are saying, but whose to say change couldn't be a good thing...if done right!


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## pixiewytch

Thanks for all the great information. Actually I live in Florida for those of you asking.

So here is another concern of mine...the whole ethanol issue. Isn't that what biodiesel is comprised of? More critics are saying that if we switch to ethanol or other biofuels that strain our corn and wheat supply other developing countries will starve to death. This is a really huge deal to me. So I wonder if biodiesel is really the best solution or maybe just a temporary one? Again, I feel kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place...use oil which supports a bloody war or a crop that could raise prices so high that children in other countries starve to death. Personally I don't want either over my head. Are there any other options? Electric? Can I even afford an electric car or conversion?

I'm glad there are some knowledgeable folks here to have a dialogue about this.


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## loraxc

Thanks for the responses about the a/c condensation water. I think it's probably slightly risky, though the water looks perfectly clean (not that that is a guarantee). Wish I understood more about how a/c systems work.

With that in mind, I'm looking for water collection ideas. Our house has no rain gutters (weird, I know, but it's semi-flat-roofed '50s house). We live in FL, and while it rains a lot in summer, the garden needs to be watered a lot too. Any collection ideas that are also kid-safe?

And I'm also looking for green ideas to shade our huge wall of west-facing windows in the LR. They're about 6 feet high. They look out on a patio. We have made a trellis and are growing bean vines up and across to provide some shade, but it still isn't enough. The windows have lightweight homemade curtains, but those also aren't enough. I'm considering some of those outdoor blinds:

http://www.backyardblinds.com/outdoor-blinds/

But I'm not thrilled about buying all that plastic. OTOH, the energy savings probably more than make up for it (this room gets blazing hot in summer--it's really almost unlivable, and I'm speaking as someone who keeps the a/c set at 82).


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## greenegirl

*Rainwater Collection*
I also live in Florida and have no gutters on my house. However, our house is L shaped and because of the way the roof slopes there are at least 3 places where rain comes off our roof like a waterfall during a storm. We are going to try using rain barrels to collect rain in those places. This site sells 'gutterless rain barrels' that still have a sealed top, so children can't fall in and bugs can't lay eggs in there.

On Earth Day, I went to one of our local parks for a bird walk. They had several vendors set up there. I signed up for a mailing list for a rain barrel making workshop and just got the e-mail for the first one. Apparently, a local agency got some grant money to run these. You pay $30/person for supplies and they show you how to install a spigot, etc into the barrel. You get to keep the barrel. Their barrels are blue, but are paintable, so I'm going to paint them the same color as my house. I'm not sure how the HOA will feel about rain barrels, but I suspect they won't like them, so I'm going to disguise them!

The workshop I am going to is on 6/9/07 10 am to 2 pm at the Seminole County Extension Office in Sanford. My recollection from some of your other posts loraxc, is that you live on the Panhandle, so this would be far for you. On Earth Day, the woman taking the sign ups told me they were going to try to do more of these workshops if they had enough interest. I'm not sure if they were all going to be in Central Florida or not. However, if you pm me, I can send you her name, phone number and e-mail address so you can find out more information.

*Biodiesel and the food supply*
This argument really bothers me. The truth is that we already produce enough food for everyone. The problem of starvation is not necessarily about the production of food. It is about access to the food that is produced. My uncle and his family lived in Africa for 10 years. He was a missionary, but ran a farm also. During the time he lived there, a natural disaster of some sort happened, I can't remember what it was now. He helped to co-ordinate some relief efforts, most of which was food being sent from the US. Everything was shipped and in a warehouse and needed to get to the people. But the local authorities were not allowing people access to it. My uncle ended up needing to pay bribes in order to get into the warehouse and personally stayed to distribute the food in order to make sure the authorities didn't bar access again.

Here in this country, we certainly produce enough food to feed everyone. But not everyone has enough to eat. Here in Orlando, the city passed an ordinance forbidding people from setting up in a public park for the purpose of passing out food to homeless people. You can pass out food, but you can only walk around and give people a bag lunch or something. You can't have a buffet with hot food. This ordinance was passed after a man who just got food from a station like that exposed himself to a random woman walking by, and is supposedly for the protection of the public. But it is a law that is limiting people's access to food. A couple of people have been arrested for violating this ordinance.

Anyway, these two stories are to illustrate the point that the reasons for poverty and starvation are complex. It takes more than simple production of food to overcome the problems.

ETA: Y'all are making me laugh calling biodiesel bd. I spend a lot of time hanging out in the ttc boards, and bd has a whole different meaning. It actually took me a little bit to figure out what you were talking about.


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## loraxc

PM'ed you, greenegirl. That gutterless rain barrel is cool!! Wish I could get a review from someone who has one, though. Hmm.


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## pixiewytch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenegirl* 

*Biodiesel and the food supply*
This argument really bothers me. The truth is that we already produce enough food for everyone. The problem of starvation is not necessarily about the production of food. It is about access to the food that is produced. My uncle and his family lived in Africa for 10 years. He was a missionary, but ran a farm also. During the time he lived there, a natural disaster of some sort happened, I can't remember what it was now. He helped to co-ordinate some relief efforts, most of which was food being sent from the US. Everything was shipped and in a warehouse and needed to get to the people. But the local authorities were not allowing people access to it. My uncle ended up needing to pay bribes in order to get into the warehouse and personally stayed to distribute the food in order to make sure the authorities didn't bar access again.

Here in this country, we certainly produce enough food to feed everyone. But not everyone has enough to eat. Here in Orlando, the city passed an ordinance forbidding people from setting up in a public park for the purpose of passing out food to homeless people. You can pass out food, but you can only walk around and give people a bag lunch or something. You can't have a buffet with hot food. This ordinance was passed after a man who just got food from a station like that exposed himself to a random woman walking by, and is supposedly for the protection of the public. But it is a law that is limiting people's access to food. A couple of people have been arrested for violating this ordinance.

Anyway, these two stories are to illustrate the point that the reasons for poverty and starvation are complex. It takes more than simple production of food to overcome the problems.

.


Hmm...yeah, I hear you. It is certainly a complex issue. I had not honestly thought about biodiesel affects on food supply until I heard a fabulous speaker on democracy now the other day. I forget his name. He is a british guy who wrote a book recently on global warming. He emphasized that although using these crops will have little affect on our food supply since we are a wealthy country that it will have devastating affects to other countries....and then I do wonder what happens when we are trying to do trade for crops with these countries. Will it turn into the same disaster oil has? I know this is turning a bit political but I'm honestly looking for the most ethical option for fueling my car and I'm starting to wonder if biodiesel is the best answer. I haven't made up my mind completely which is why I would love to hear from more people and what they think or what the better alternative is.


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Hmm...yeah, I hear you. It is certainly a complex issue. I had not honestly thought about biodiesel affects on food supply until I heard a fabulous speaker on democracy now the other day. I forget his name. He is a british guy who wrote a book recently on global warming. He emphasized that although using these crops will have little affect on our food supply since we are a wealthy country that it will have devastating affects to other countries....and then I do wonder what happens when we are trying to do trade for crops with these countries. Will it turn into the same disaster oil has? I know this is turning a bit political but I'm honestly looking for the most ethical option for fueling my car and I'm starting to wonder if biodiesel is the best answer. I haven't made up my mind completely which is why I would love to hear from more people and what they think or what the better alternative is.

Here's an interesting read for you. Mind you it's from Tesla Motors, who is making a 100% electric car, so they aren't exactly going to talk up other methods of fueling your car.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=22

I'm not exactly an expert on this area, and I've never even owned a car, so I think that'll be my only contribution to this conversation.


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## delfuego

what does ttc and what does bd stand for in that forum? forgive me, i'm fairly clueless.

biodiesel is certainly not the _only_ or even the _best_ option for the environment. what it is though is an affordable way that we normal people (who can't afford a tesla even though it is my dream car) can make a contribution toward ending our addiction to foreign petroleum and all the socio/political/environmental tragedies associated with burning this _very_
precious fossil fuel.

for clarification biodiesel is a more efficient way of turning plants into fuel than ethanol... it is not made of ethanol.

biodiesel can be made out of waste vegetable oil fairly easily... and if you really don't have a distributor anywhere near you then making your own bd could be an option. that is where me and dp started. if you can form a coop to do it... even better. biodiesel does not have to be made from food crop. there are alot of non-food plants that are actually have more oil and are more efficient at producing fuel than the soybeans currently being used. unfortunately, because of the way our country's politics and corporations are tied together, the soy industry jumped on bd first so now everyone assumes bd has to be made from soy.

although i don't think biodiesel (especially in its current forms of production) is perfect, i think it's a far cry better than gasoline. until we can get electric cars and solar recharging stations that are affordable and available to all of us, we have to do what we can.

btw... have you seen "Who Killed the Electric Car"?uke I was so mad when I got done watching that! Do whatever you can not to support the auto/petroleum industry!


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## beanma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
So here is another concern of mine...the whole ethanol issue. Isn't that what biodiesel is comprised of? More critics are saying that if we switch to ethanol or other biofuels that strain our corn and wheat supply other developing countries will starve to death.


there's been a lot of press about ethanol (aka flexfuel) and corn and the food supply. this is not the same thing as BIODIESEL. ETHANOL-enhanced fuels (flex fuel, E80, etc) are designed for gasoline engines. BIODIESEL is a different critter designed,of course, for diesel vehicles. you can create B100 (100% biodiesel) almost entirely from the waste stream. you can generate the fuel from Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) or even Waste Lard (







but true). you take an oil (veggie oil, chicken fat, french fry grease, what have you), introduce a catalyst (i believe it's typically a small amount of methanol or
sometimes ethanol) which causes the oil to undergo a chemical reaction and form the fuel leaving behind the byproduct of glycerin (which can be used to make soap or can be composted with the right technique). as it stands right now there is no need to grow crops to produce biodiesel, especially if you're interested in home-brewing your own fuel. there has been some concern in brazil with palm oil plantations and destruction of the rain forest for both biodiesel production (i believe brazil has quite a few diesel vehicles on the road in comparison to the US) and also for human consumption (Earth Balance anyone?).

Ethanol and the corn controversy can be confusing for people just learning about biodiesel, but while ethanol and biodiesel are both BIOFUELS they are not produced the same way.

if you don't mind driving a little bit here's a MB diesel in SE Ga for $2200 . here's a sweet wagon on ebay currently at $6825 . i'm kinda interested in a wagon myself. here's another ebay MB diesel for $2500 . there's one on here that already has a Straight Veggie Oil kit installed for $5000. i bet you can find a car if you decide you want to go the biodiesel/veggie oil route.

here are some more links just about biodiesel in florida:

http://www.brevardbiodiesel.com/
http://marcussharpe.com/biodiesel.shtml (central FL distributors at bottom left)
http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/42/ShowForum.aspx (florida initiative)
http://www.floridabiodieselinc.com/index.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...a_biodies.html
http://biodieselblog.com/2005/01/bio...-florida.shtml
http://energy.biofuels.coop/general/...iodiesel-tour/
http://groovygreen.com/groove/?p=198
http://www.sol-atlantic-biodiesel.com/
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1731231
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,2503376.story
http://www.girlmark.com/
http://community.livejournal.com/biodiesel/49062.html

just to get you started


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## pixiewytch

Wow, thanks for all of those links. I'm not financially set up to buy anything just yet but probably by the end of the year. Thanks for clarifying the whole biodiesel/ethanol thing. I was a little confused by that.







:


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## ramlita

I have read that there is a kind of algae that's great for making biodiesel, and could fuel the whole USA without crowding existing food crops or fresh water.

Here's a forum I just found on the subject:

http://biodieselnow.com/forums/13/ShowForum.aspx

I know Wikipedia isn't popular, exactly, but this quote from the biodiesel page is interesting fodder for further research:

"algae that have a natural oil content greater than 50%, which Briggs suggests can be grown on algae ponds at wastewater treatment plants.This oil-rich algae can then be extracted from the system and processed into biodiesel, with the dried remainder further reprocessed to create ethanol"


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## beanma

yes, i have read discussion of the algae thing, too. i haven't really followed it in depth, but have read mention of it on a biodiesel list i'm on.

hope i didn't overwhelm with the links







. i got a little carried away







: .


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## MBFoley

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
what does ttc and what does bd stand for in that forum? forgive me, i'm fairly clueless.

I do hang out on the ttc forums even though I am not yet. Oh yeah TTC stands for Trying To Concieve. I know that when I hear what BD stands for there it is going to be a *DUH* moment but I can't come up with anything right now lol.


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## greenegirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
what does ttc and what does bd stand for in that forum? forgive me, i'm fairly clueless.

ttc = trying to conceive
bd = baby dance = sex


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## koru

i haven't been here in a while (since "green living tribe part I"!?) so forgive me if this is a repeat but check out this website.....

http://www.betterworldshopper.org/

the book is wonderful, compact & fits in my purse/bag to reference when i'm out shopping. i've committed to only buying products in the A&B categories, if at all possible!


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## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenegirl* 
ttc = trying to conceive
bd = baby dance = sex


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## delfuego

algae huh? wow... that's great! you could build a living machine or constructed wetlands and grow algae to run your car on.

that's another great use for your poop!


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## AJP

I've missed a few pages of this thread, and ya'll have been having a biodiesel discussion without me!

I find the algae option so exciting, I really hope someone makes progress in that direction soon. Using land that is otherwise unproductive, recycling the water, using waste to feed the algae, and coming up with a fuel produced very efficiently at the end of the cycle - wow!

Pixiewytch, I think you asked how people acquire their biodiesel in the absence of pumping stations that sell it. I live in a very small town, and even the closest large city an hour away doesn't have any public stations that sell it at the pump. There is a biofuels co-op in that city, so what we've done is joined them, bought a few "totes" which are 300 gal. plastic tanks enclosed in a metal wire cage, that originally held food oil or glucose syrup or other non-chemical things. We put one empty tote in a trailer and tow it to the site where the co-op will be getting the tanker delivery of biodiesel, and either meet the tanker truck there or leave the trailer for a few days (depending on timing), our tote gets filled, then we tow it home and pump the fuel into another tote, from which we fill the vehicle (since we need to use the trailer in between fuel pick ups and the tote when full is too heavy to get out of the trailer without a forklift). 300 gallons of biodiesel lasts us about 6 months (we don't commute for work or school, and only make 2 or 3 trips each week that are more than 10 miles). This system is working really well for us right now. We've talked about trying to put together a co-op in our immediate area instead of using the one in the city, so we could have the tanker come here to deliver, but we'd have to buy 1000 gal. minimum. We can't cough up that much dough at once for fuel currently, and so far the locals who we know that are interested in running biodiesel aren't interested enough or solvent enough to go in with us to front enough money to get the delivery.

I, too, hope to never go back to gasoline for routine driving. We still have a gasoline truck that gets only occasional use, but once the Jeep (Liberty diesel) is paid off we plan to replace the truck with a diesel as well.

I also find the argument that we shouldn't be using potential food crops to make vehicle fuel to be myopic. There isn't a food shortage in our world, there's a distribution problem - growing more food won't fix that, it won't fix the political and cultural problems that are the root of people going hungry. This gets into the whole issue of the factory farming of animals for food (which is incredibly wasteful of land, grain, water, etc.) and industrialized plant food farming, as well. Land is not being used responsibly right now, in most Western nations or in developing nations. Pasture-based animal agriculture that doesn't use prime crop land and more ecological and integrated plant food farming would result in a much more sensible balance, with plenty of oil/sugar/cellulose crops left over for making either biodiesel or ethanol fuel. Of course, the best thing would be to get away from the infernal combustion engine entirely, but that's going to be a long time comin', I think. The emissions from bidoeisel and ethanol fuels are so much lower than with petroleum fuels (not to mention the carbon cycle disruption that burning petroleum causes, which IMO is the crux of the global warming issue), that any step in that direction is an improvement, even though these biofuels are not the ultimate and perfect answer.

I need to make a new biodiesel sticker for my car, the old one is peeling off. Anyone have a good slogan?


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## delfuego

"Biodiesel - No War Required" is a popular sticker locally.

... oh i see you have that in your signature.


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## beanma

biodiesel stickers at cafe press


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## AJP

Ooh, some good ones there! Thanks for the link, beanma.


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## pixiewytch

Okay, so DH is arguing with me that a Mercedes costs a lot to repair if it breaks down. Can you all that own one confirm this? Do you have to order special parts that cost more than most cars? Do you have to take it to a mercedes dealership to have it worked on? Just some things for me to ponder.


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## RaRa7

My dad had a Mercedes and I know he was always complaining about the cost of repairs.........


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## magentamomma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenkids* 
Thanks for the new thread. I joined WAAAAAYYYY back when this thread first started.







:

Anyway, my DD is turning 2 next month. I have been trying to find a company that is eco friendly for party supplies. Does anyone know of anything? I would like to have a green party for her without taking away from her birthday. Also, what could I do about all that wrapping paper?!??! It's SO wastful. Do you all think it would be rude to request recyclible wrapping paper. Maybe suggest news paper or paper bags?

I don't know if it will work to place such a request. One year we requested no plastic toys please and that was litterally almost all of what we recieved, causing one friend to joke "next year say no twenty dollar bills!)







. We do collage and other art projects with our use wrapping paper. The girls get a kick out of it. In fact you could have your kids make their thank you notes/scribbles on it. Just a thought. Have fun


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## kimberlychapman

Consumer Reports bases its car repair ratings on thousands of readers who submit yearly surveys on actual experiences (myself included). That goes for everything else in your house too. We rely on it a great deal for any major purchase.

It's even been better in recent years about including eco-friendly products in its own testing (ie recent detergent evaluations include the eco-friendly kind, and for dishwashers they've even found that enzyme-based, non-polluting, inexpensive ones like from Trader Joe's are top notch!). And if they screw up, they admit it fast, like with the recent infant car-seat test errors.

They've had some good articles lately about alternative car fuels, where the industry currently stands, what's likely in the future (and what's not), the pros and cons, etc.

I highly recommend getting a subscription (either magazine or online or both) in advance of any major purchases. Of course, as anything, it's still one source of information and subsequent sources should be checked.


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## AJP

Thanks for the info, Kimberly. I read the online, non-subscriber version of the alternative fuels article. About biodiesel, it says, "In Consumer Reports' own tests, a car running on biodiesel produced slightly less pollution than the same car running on conventional diesel but achieved slightly fewer mpg." But they don't state what blend they used for their test. B100 produces _much_ less pollution than petrol diesel in every test I've read about, except for NOX emissions, so I'm guessing their test used B20 or lower (20% biodiesel, 80% petrol diesel). They also don't clarify that no conversion is necessary to run B100, only the replacement of hoses and seals in older vehicles, and that it can loosen deposits in old engines left behind by petrol diesel so a couple of fuel filter changes may be required when switching. They say B20 can be run in most diesels with no conversion, but that implies conversion is necessary for higher blends. Do you know, is the subscriber version of that report more detailed and indepth?


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## gottothinkpositive

right on...just want to get in on the green action


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## delfuego

okay... sorry i abandoned the mb/bd conversation for a minute. i've had strep...







... and a 19 month old... and my partner is off playing with his buddies







:... but that's another thread.

so, you asked about the repair prices of mb. yes, it is more to repair a mercedes than say a ford. however, having driven both... it seems that even though my mb's are much older (i have an '83 300sd, a '78 300cd and previously had a '79 300sd) they don't have little things going wrong all the time like my ford did.

there are a couple of things off the top of my head to look out for though (if you plan to buy one):

1) the vacccuum lines. all three of my cars have had problems with the vaccuum lines... and everything in these cars seems to be running on vaccuum. if you are looking at a car and it's automatic locks don't work, that's a sure sign the vaccuum system is having problems. best to avoid it.

2) the blower motor. the blower motor has gone out on both of my sd's. it seems that the entire car is built around the blower motor... so, when it goes out, it's an expensive fix. i didn't get it fixed. i just drive around without heat. it's not too bad, we just bundle up in the wintertime... you wouldn't have to worry about that in florida though.

here are my suggestions to try to minimize costly repairs:

1) buy an mb that has been refurbished. people who own and fix these cars really love them so you can easily find one that someone has put a lot of time and tender loving care into. ask what they have done to the car... make sure they have tested and replaced vaccuum lines where necessary.

2) buy a 240d with a manual transmission if you can find one. the more bells and whistles... the more there is to break, and the more expensive it is to fix when it does break.

3) don't take it to the dealership. find a local mechanic who specializes in mercedes benzes (not just in foreign cars but mb's in particular). often times they can get you used parts and won't charge too much for labor.

4) do whatever work you can yourself. these cars were designed to make minor repairs and maintenance simple. for example: you don't even have to lay on the ground to do an oil change and there the only tool you need is a ratchet w/ a 13 mm socket.

my mb's were so cheap... less than a thousand each, that whatever repairs i have to pay for are still less than if i were making a car payment. and they are solid cars. the previous owner got in an accident w/ our cd, she was rear ended by a mustang. the mustang was totaled, the cd has a small buckle in the rear passenger fender that we've never bothered to fix. the engines routinely go 300,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt. they are definitely a value buy.

however, mb's are not the only cars that run biodiesel. you can run biodiesel in _any_ diesel engine... you may have to changes some seals and hoses but that's really not a big deal. the only diesel i would definitely stay away from is the ford.

i use www.mercedesforum.com alot to ask questions about my mb's, diagnose problems, etc. you might want to suggest dh go there to ask about repair prices vs. other cars (maybe some car guys would have more sway with him than your mdc friends?)


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AJP* 
Thanks for the info, Kimberly. I read the online, non-subscriber version of the alternative fuels article. ... Do you know, is the subscriber version of that report more detailed and indepth?

I'm not sure which article you read, as there are several that come up on a search for biodiesel:

Alternative autos and fuels 6/06, Biodiesel: A promising blend - free

Greasing our wheels: Making a diesel run on cooking oil, diesel vs. biodiesel vs. vegetable oil 5/06

Greasing our wheels: Making a diesel run on cooking oil, backyard biodiesel 5/06

Greasing our wheels: Making a diesel run on cooking oil, what we found 5/06

Grease-powered cars 6/06: Vegetable oil cars, diesel fuel - free

Fuel cost comparison calculator - free

Ethanol, The future of ethanol 10/06

A Guide to Stretching Your Fuel Dollars - free

Consumer Reports tests show that E85 Ethanol offers cleaner emissions but poorer fuel economy 10/06 - free

There are older ones and newer ones, and even then the newest seems to be from last October so what you're describing could be newer than that. I don't know much about biodiesel myself, certainly not enough to critique the articles. Plus it's also entirely possible that whatever they tested was what was commonly available at the time of testing (which would of course be even earlier than the publish date of the article), since they try to be national in scope as well as look at what things people are likely to be able to get ahold of.

It's definitely not MAKE magazine...they don't go far out on a limb into projects beyond what the average person is likely to be able to do. Doing any kind of engine work is probably something they consider beyond normal capabilities, including replacing hoses and seals.

And while many of us who read this board could easily take on such a task, keep in mind that I get email from people regularly who are afraid to learn to KNIT, as in, scared to pick up two sticks and some yarn and see what happens, let alone do anything with their car beyond drive it. I know an awful lot of people who wouldn't even know what an oil dipstick is for, let alone how to use it or find it in their car.

So Consumer Reports isn't likely to advocate tinkering around in one's car, even on a minimum level. That's not what they exist for. They're there to report on what you can buy and whether or not it works.


----------



## sweetirishCT

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 

my mb's were so cheap... less than a thousand each, that whatever repairs i have to pay for are still less than if i were making a car payment. and they are solid cars. the previous owner got in an accident w/ our cd, she was rear ended by a mustang. the mustang was totaled, the cd has a small buckle in the rear passenger fender that we've never bothered to fix. the engines routinely go 300,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt. they are definitely a value buy.

however, mb's are not the only cars that run biodiesel. you can run biodiesel in _any_ diesel engine... you may have to changes some seals and hoses but that's really not a big deal. the only diesel i would definitely stay away from is the ford.

i use www.mercedesforum.com alot to ask questions about my mb's, diagnose problems, etc. you might want to suggest dh go there to ask about repair prices vs. other cars (maybe some car guys would have more sway with him than your mdc friends?)










great info!! man i am really hating my '06 minivan right now...







:


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
Doing any kind of engine work is probably something they consider beyond normal capabilities, including replacing hoses and seals.

And while many of us who read this board could easily take on such a task, keep in mind that I get email from people regularly who are afraid to learn to KNIT, as in, scared to pick up two sticks and some yarn and see what happens, let alone do anything with their car beyond drive it. I know an awful lot of people who wouldn't even know what an oil dipstick is for, let alone how to use it or find it in their car.









I understand what you mean.

The article I read was this one from June '06: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...view/index.htm

FTR, we don't know jack about working on cars in this family. I wouldn't try to replace hoses or seals or anything like that unless I had no other choice. We just drive the thing, and leave anything more involved than putting in fluids to the mechanics. We're not motorheads, don't like to tinker or modify or any of that jazz (we may convert to running straight veggie oil at some point, but would seek professional help for the modifications). We bought our Jeep diesel from a dealer who specializes in selling recent-model diesels that are ready to go for biodiesel (making sure all that hose/seal/filter stuff is taken care of).


----------



## josybear

hi! new here!
i just read the last 100 posts, so forgive me if i'm bringing up old news, but here are my contributions to the subjects:

i've read a couple of different places that as far as cars go, 30% of the pollution they cause is from the manufacturing, 30% is from the driving and 30% is from the disposing of the vehicle, give or take. so buying an older car, even if it isn't as fuel efficent, is still better than buying new, since the only way to make vehicles less of an environmental travesty is to drive them until every part of them is unusable, and then use the ancient corpse of a former car as a relly cool planter or playhouse for kids or something. using things up is better than buying new when used is available, non?

greywater systems - we have a sort of accidental, ghetto version of a greywater system in our kitchen. the sink clogged and the clog is too far down the line for the snake to reach so we took out the pipes and made the sink drain directly into a bucket. that bucket is used to flush the toilet. the water stinks too much for anything else, since usually it's been sitting in the bucket for a few days by the time we get to it. we only flush when the toilet has properly dark water, so the amount of water we get from washing dishes is about right for the amount we need for our flushing. we might needs less when i'm not preggo and peeing every 10 minutes, though...









i had something else to say but i forget now. i shall return.


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## flowers

Hi everyone. I was gone for the weekend and not to brag...actually I will brag...

We drove 2 hours north to go camping and 2 hours back and our gas meter didn't budge! We were fueled up with WVO and stunk like french fries the whole way!

This whole world eating argument really throws me for a loop b/c I am not sure why we are looking for ONE solution for a gazillion cars, kwim? (when I say we I am referring to the larger voice not our brilliant group!) I mean think about how much cooking oil the country uses and how much fuel we could recycle that into! Then we could have electric cars and other technology. Why are they looking for a blanket solution....oh right, so they can tax it!


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## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *josybear* 
as far as cars go, 30% of the pollution they cause is from the manufacturing, 30% is from the driving and 30% is from the disposing of the vehicle, give or take. so buying an older car, even if it isn't as fuel efficent, is still better than buying new, since the only way to make vehicles less of an environmental travesty is to drive them until every part of them is unusable, and then use the ancient corpse of a former car as a relly cool planter or playhouse for kids or something. using things up is better than buying new when used is available, non?

i think you're right josybear. dp and i have always lived off of what our society throws away. partly because we're poor... but mostly because we can't buy into our society's throw-away consumer culture.

it's like, you know what, no amount of rain forest crunch is going to save the environment. it's only going to come from us making the concious choice to give up some of our comforts (like a car that you don't have to worry about checking the oil on) in order to leave our children with a _chance_ of surviving.


----------



## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
This whole world eating argument really throws me for a loop b/c I am not sure why we are looking for ONE solution for a gazillion cars, kwim? (when I say we I am referring to the larger voice not our brilliant group!) I mean think about how much cooking oil the country uses and how much fuel we could recycle that into! Then we could have electric cars and other technology. Why are they looking for a blanket solution....oh right, so they can tax it!









Sing it sista!


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## delfuego

i feel like i should wait at the end of the line until others have a chance to post. am i hogging the forum?









oh well, this is cool:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/ga...=5070&emc=eta1


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
i feel like i should wait at the end of the line until others have a chance to post. am i hogging the forum?









oh well, this is cool:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/ga...=5070&emc=eta1

I love it! They called her a greywater guerilla! How rad is that! I want to be one!


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *josybear* 
hi! new here!
i've read a couple of different places that as far as cars go, 30% of the pollution they cause is from the manufacturing, 30% is from the driving and 30% is from the disposing of the vehicle, give or take. so buying an older car, even if it isn't as fuel efficent, is still better than buying new, since the only way to make vehicles less of an environmental travesty is to drive them until every part of them is unusable, and then use the ancient corpse of a former car as a relly cool planter or playhouse for kids or something. using things up is better than buying new when used is available, non?

From a life cycle perspective, I think that the figure of 30% of energy going into disposal is kind of high, although I agree that a huge portion of energy goes into manufacturing... I recently saw an interesting presentation on this type of study, here is a good link to the research group, and recommendations for vehicle replacement is discussed in the third abstract down...

Basically, they found that when you consider pollutants such as CO, NOx, and particulate matter, there is actually a benefit in replacing the vehicle more frequently, because emissions control technologies (e.g., catalytic converter) are improving very quickly.

However, considering energy and CO2 emissions, there were not life cycle environmental benefits to replacement until the vehicle was about 18 years old...(because on average there haven't been real improvements in fuel efficiency)

They also had a group studying household appliances, and found that for things like refrigerators, there is actually a net savings in energy for more frequent replacement (even including energy required for manufacturing and disposal) based on energy saved by more efficient newer models...

I think that "life cycle" thinking is really essential in making environmental decisions, although it often requires some sort of valuation or tradeoff in impacts...


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## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/ga...=5070&emc=eta1

I just found the Greywater Guerrillas have their own site: http://www.greywaterguerrillas.com/


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicocj* 
I think that "life cycle" thinking is really essential in making environmental decisions, although it often requires some sort of valuation or tradeoff in impacts...


Almost all eco-decisions seem to require tradeoffs, and many of them truly suck when you know all of the background details. Like the lightbulb thing. Gahhh, so depressing. You do what's supposedly right and then you find out you can't dispose of them properly where you live and so you're contaminating soil/groundwater if you chuck 'em, so if you're like me you pile up dead ones in a drawer and hope someday the eco-fairy will make them disappear.

I came in because I wanted to mention that The Complete Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyczyn is really awesome and I think a lot of you would like it. I've been reading a library copy (because OMG I am a huuuuuge tightwad and I'm loving how often I'm already doing the stuff in this book!) and while a lot of it is outdated (early 90s stuff generally doesn't consider internet alternatives), the general gist is ways to save money and also more often than not be eco-sensible. Basics like buying scratch ingredients in bulk instead of pre-made/overpackaged foods, reusing and recycling for all kinds of things, etc.

A lot of it won't be new to some people here but it's very gratifying to learn that you're not the only weirdo out there who does some of this stuff. I almost skipped around the room for joy to learn that I'm not the only person who takes the last bit of a bar of soap and uses suds to "glue" it to a new bar, and worse, joke to their spouse that theoretically there might be soap molecules from a bar over a decade old in there since that's when I started doing it.









Oh, and not only is she a big advocate of cloth diapers, but she's done a lot of the math about them so you can use that to help make the case to others.


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## kimberlychapman

My husband and I (who are perpetually behind in TV) just got around to watching PBS/Frontline's recent piece on the politics in the US regarding global warming. I can't say it contained much new stuff that we as active people in this area didn't know, but it was a really good summary of the policy issues, especially the manipulation of the public in terms of acting as if there was scientific doubt (there was a very interesting and we believe very accurate linking of how the same tactics were used by the tobacco industry to deny the cancer link for so long).

Anyway, the whole thing is available free online for anyone interested, as are all Frontline pieces, I believe...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hotpolitics/

It's a source of tons of info as well for anyone who finds themselves trying to debate people who still claim "the science isn't all in".


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## aranya

Hi GLT! I've been lurking here for a while. I saw some posts here about getting rid of plastic, and was wondering what you folks do to avoid buying things packaged in plastic.

One of the things that I've been trying to do so as to have a 'greener' lifestyle is to completely avoid all disposable/non compostable packaging in the food that I buy. DH and I have always used cloth bags and backpacks when grocery shopping, and reuse some plastic bags for produce/bulk foods. I am making some produce bags like these

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/ec...ags-p-689.html

so that I would hopefully never need to use plastic bags for loose produce and bulk grain. In a month or so we will move for DH's work and my PhD research, and I hope to find milk in reusable glass bottles ( we are lacto rarely ovo vegetarians) and use reusable containers to buy bulk herbs and spices (still need to figure out a good system for this). I am also researching making our own tempeh. The problem areas are:

1) Bread-I really like Ezekiel bread (which is wrapped in plastic)and am not sure how to make it at home. Besides, I've heard that it takes less energy to make organic whole grain bread on a bulk scale than to make it at home (forgot where that came from though but I could dig it up).

2) DH is addicted to orange juice and loves soy milk. I've promised to make him smoothies every day but am not sure whether he would consider that a good enough substitute. And I'm not sure I want to invest in a soy milk maker right now, though I might (hemp milk would be nice!).

3) Frozen berries/vegetables. We currently buy packages of frozen berries and spinach when not in season (which is much of the year). I would like to buy a whole lot from farmers markets this summer to freeze, but I imagine wrapping them in parchment paper would be messy. Any ideas on freezing without plastic? I freeze cooked dishes in Pyrex containers but they already take up so much space.

I would love to hear your thoughts on these issues as well as your own experiences reducing the packaged products that you buy. Also if anyone has had success with vermicomposting in an apartment, do let me know!


----------



## kimberlychapman

I haven't frozen uncut berries myself (I've frozen reused margarine/large yogurt tubs of cut ones for future jams), but I've read that you should do it with space in between at first, then dump them all into a container if you want to be able to retrieve them separately. If you freeze them all together from the start they'll be a massive lump.

Incidentally, Costco sells various frozen fruits and veggies, some organic, for insanely low prices. Their giant bag of strawberries is awesome for smoothies, jams, etc.

Mind you, I've read that buying frozen veggies/fruit is bad because of the extra fuel needed to transport frozen goods. But I don't know if doing so and making my own jam is better to cut down on packaging. Another one of those trade-offs!


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## Azuluna

What a great thread! I haven't had a chance to dig through all the posts yet, that whole parenting thing is really time consuming








I do, however, have a crunchy roadblock I need help with. We live in a house in the city (grumble, grumble), and I am trying like hell to make it as green as possible until we are able to flee to some acreage. Our lot is long and narrow, less than 1/4 acre, with FOUR mature trees (tulip poplar, oak, two black walnut). I love the trees - they are beautiful and shade our house entirely during the summer so we rarely need the AC, but they unfortunately make gardening next to impossible, and they house many many birds that poop a lot. I would really like to hang my clothes outdoors to dry, but I also prefer crap-free garments, sooo.......
Any ideas on how to rig a bird-poo-proof clothesline? I wouldn't mind suggestions on gardening (vegetables or herbs) in mostly full shade, either









And re: storing berries, I used to go to a U-Pick farm with a friend as a teenager. We would spread berries out on cookie sheets and freeze them, then transfer them into containers later to avoid the aforementioned lump-o-berries. Most of my plastic containers are recycled from other food items we buy (yogurt, sour cream, hummus, etc.)


----------



## RaRa7

I am worried about the chemicals in plastic leaching into my food.....I just bought some old-fashioned glass containers to freeze food in(Inever knew there were such things and was thrilled to find them).


----------



## Azuluna

That's very cool - are the containers specifially for freezing? I have a bunch of glass containers that I've saved, too (pickle jars, etc) and if I could freeze in them instead I could recycle the plastic ones and be that much more plastic-free.


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## RaRa7

They say "from freezer to oven"-even better!

http://homemarketplace.resultspage.c...tom&w=10121523


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## beanma

i've got three of these and a larger one, too -- http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=850&f=5413 . they look about the same as arismommy's. i love 'em, but i don't freeze in them because i use them so much. i'd hate to have them out of rotation.


----------



## ramlita




----------



## Azuluna

Those are niiiiiice!


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## Suzukimom

Subscribing!
We're making lots of changes this year:

Mainly vegetarian diet
Joined a CSA
cloth napkins
environment friendly cleaning products
turning off the power strip for our our computer at night
bringing cloth bags to grocery store
Organic food
no idling in the carpool line at school
growing our own vegetble garden
composting

I'm sure these have all been mentioned but I wanted to add something other than "subscribing."


----------



## pixiewytch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
i think you're right josybear. dp and i have always lived off of what our society throws away. partly because we're poor... but mostly because we can't buy into our society's throw-away consumer culture.

it's like, you know what, no amount of rain forest crunch is going to save the environment. it's only going to come from us making the concious choice to give up some of our comforts (like a car that you don't have to worry about checking the oil on) in order to leave our children with a _chance_ of surviving.


I've been away from this thread for awhile but my brother likes to condescendingly refer to our family's cars as "running our cars into the ground" with the utmost disgust. This comes from someone who is sure to buy a new car every five years when the old car's lease is up or is paid for. I mean, honestly, what is more disgusting than actually driving your car until you can't drive it anymore?









Anyway, as for global solutions, I know that not one fuel is going to be the magic ticket but naturally I'm concerned for the rest of the world and not myself. I'm all about WVO but will this too become a scarce commodity if everyone else in the world is looking for it (I know, not likely, right?)


----------



## KimProbable

I just came across this enviro stencil and realized that I HAD to post a link on this thread.


----------



## onyxravnos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Azuluna* 
Any ideas on how to rig a bird-poo-proof clothesline?


Maybe get a big piece of clear plastic you can string up over your clothing line? Like the kind they put over veggies in cold climate gardening.. I _Think_ you get it from Home Depot like places. it would keep the bird poo off but allow the sunshine through.


----------



## MamaKalena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
i've got three of these and a larger one, too -- http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=850&f=5413 . they look about the same as arismommy's. i love 'em, but i don't freeze in them because i use them so much. i'd hate to have them out of rotation.

Ikea has similar containers in a bunch of different sizes -- they're great and are stackable, too!


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Azuluna* 
Any ideas on how to rig a bird-poo-proof clothesline?

Someone told me once that if you hang old CDs (compact discs, not cloth diapers







) in your trees, the constant reflection from them will scare away birds. I've never tried it though. But you could try hanging CDs in the branches above the clothesline. Let us know if you try it!


----------



## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
try hanging CDs in the branches above the clothesline.

that's really interesting. it reminds me of a pest control method i saw used alot around mexican restaraunts (the real ones, at least) when i lived in arizona.

they hang plastic bags full of water around the outside of the building, apparently the light refracting through the water confuses flies and keeps them away.


----------



## calicocj

Yesterday, for part of my job, we toured the recycling facility, transfer station, and landfill of the waste management contractor for our university... I just had to share here, most people just aren't as excited about stuff like this









I've seen landfills before, but was amazed at how different they are here compared to wetter climates.... e.g., they actually have to add water to the landfill to improve performance of the liner, and they get very little leachate or methane emissions...

The most eye opening thing was the recycling though, it was sorted at a facility where they do almost all the work by hand (except for a conveyor and a magnet for steel cans), and apparently these are still very common... the laborers had to separate out all the trash and non-recyclables by hand, and what amazed me is what people put in the recycling - a bag of carrots, a pillow, plastic grocery bags (they mess up the equipment...), a broken wooden chair







:

Even I, and to a greater extent, my husband, sometimes put things in the recycling that I'm not sure about, but it really made me want to be so careful to only recycle exactly what they take

The other thing that amazed me was that almost all of our campus's recyclabes are sold to China, because that is where the market is.... it makes it a difficult tradeoff for our admin, because it is easier and cheaper (and to some extent less emissions) to just landfill the material here, as compared to investing time, manpower, and funds to increase recycling, where the material is shipped (high transport emissions) all the way to China...

So, I know some of yall already know all of this info, but it was interesting, and I had to share...


----------



## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
that's really interesting. it reminds me of a pest control method i saw used alot around mexican restaraunts (the real ones, at least) when i lived in arizona.

they hang plastic bags full of water around the outside of the building, apparently the light refracting through the water confuses flies and keeps them away.

Funny thing I saw in Italy--people put liter bottles of water by their front doors to keep away cats???? That may just be a kind of "old-wives tale" thing


----------



## not now

The hanging CD's from the trees will probably work. Where I live there's a lot of farming. When I drive by gapes on my way to work there will be shiny, metallic ribbon looking things every five or ten feet up above the grapes flapping in the wind. They keep the birds from eating the grapes.


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## EnviroBecca

Azuluna, is there any place you could put your clothesline indoors or under a roof? Then, in addition to avoiding bird poop, you wouldn't have to worry about the weather! I've done covered clotheslines for 16 years: in my dorm room, then living room, then balcony, and now basement.

I'm way behind on the thread (I was on vacation)...Greenegirl wrote:

Quote:

Here in Orlando, the city passed an ordinance forbidding people from setting up in a public park for the purpose of passing out food to homeless people. You can pass out food, but you can only walk around and give people a bag lunch or something. You can't have a buffet with hot food. This ordinance was passed after a man who just got food from a station like that exposed himself to a random woman walking by, and is supposedly for the protection of the public.








If a gas station clerk exposed himself to a customer, would they ban gas stations?!


----------



## kimberlychapman

On keeping birds away...CDs scare most birds but I've seen a crow pecking at one in a garden a few years ago, so some birds are too smart/brave/stupid/fearless.









I've also seen pigeons roosting *between* those spike things that people around here put on their roofs to keep the pigeons away. I kind of always laugh at that...ha ha ha you spent money to poke at the birds and now they win *and* your roof looks like an exploding plastic porcupine.









Because it was an unusually cool day here in Vegas (mid 20s C, practically frigid for June), I ventured outside and did something cool.

Following guidelines set out in "The Complete Tightwad Gazette" (which I've mentioned on this thread before), I made my daughter a recycled water sprinkler today.

I took a Trader Joe's Organic Mango Lemonade plastic bottle out of our recycling bin, removed the label and glue (hot water on the inside and a paring knife used carefully on the outside with a bit of soap to prevent re-sticking), then used the sharp end of a miniature rasp (ie something pointy) to poke a few holes in one side.

Then I cut the wide part of the thumb from a latex rubber glove, pushed it onto the sprayer-thingy of the new lead-free/drinking-water-safe hose I found at Target, shoved that into the neck of the juice bottle so it was flush and tight, went into the backyard, rolled out the hose (it's a flat nylon type), and tested it. Voila, instant sprinkler.

I could probably poke more holes but she was quite happy with just a few, and as a result it flowed well on minimum pressure, which means we didn't actually use much water. Plus, I aimed it so it would hit the dead spot on the back lawn.

Not exactly the most exciting summer water play, but she had a blast and I did it with minimum impact, minimum cost (okay the hose was more expensive than the unsafe lead ones, but we needed to switch anyway), minimum water use, almost no water waste, and really not all that much effort.

Yay!


----------



## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
Following guidelines set out in "The Complete Tightwad Gazette" (which I've mentioned on this thread before), I made my daughter a recycled water sprinkler today.









cool...

... it tickled me to find out that the grounds management crew on campus here actually used this type of thing as flow breakers when they are doing spot irrigation... they take bottles out of the trash, fill them with used styrofoam packing peanuts, poke holes, ductape a hose inside and water


----------



## flowers

I'm not sure if we have already had this discussion but how does everyone feel about the whole car seat issue.

Car seats are coming with a label that says if it is older than five years old to discontinue use and you keep hearing that you shouldn't accept hand me down car seats. I am due with my second and am trying to figure out the best safety vs. eco decision to make.

I have an infant car seat given to me (used by one child) for ds and I am questioning whether I should use it again. Part of me doesn't want to buy into the fear based buying of new products, but the other part of me wants the safest option for the new babe.


----------



## loraxc

Azuluna, have you tried hanging out some clothes just to see? We have a lot of trees and birds (we have, let's see, 5 bird feeders and 2 birdbaths!) and I've never had a problem.


----------



## cuttyhunker

"I have an infant car seat given to me (used by one child) for ds and I am questioning whether I should use it again. Part of me doesn't want to buy into the fear based buying of new products, but the other part of me wants the safest option for the new babe."

__________________

As long as the infant seat hasn't been involved in an accident, it oughta be okay. Some data suggest that carseats don't have much safety advantage over just the seatbelt. Of course, a newborn can't sit up! We use a carseat because it is the law but have doubts about the real safety advantages. Reuse and feel peace of mind


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## ramlita

That's my take on carseats, too.


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## kimberlychapman

Car seat data actually shows rather substantially that for small kids and infants, the reduction of injury and death is far better than seatbelt alone. Consumer Reports recently had a large article on this issue, mostly because they screwed up their recent tests (the tests were rougher than they'd realized, leading them to question the safety of several seats, but they've responsibly recanted and explained themselves, what went wrong, etc.). One bit repeated over and over in there was that *any* car seat is better than none, and some just happen to be better designed in terms of various types of crash protection (ie some are better for side impact than others).

So an older car seat is better than no car seat by far. See http://www.seatcheck.org/ for information on how to get a seat examined and properly installed in your area. You could also phone the 1-800 number there and ask if they can advise you on whether a particular older model is now considered unsafe or if it's perfectly fine (and if they can't tell you they probably can direct you to someone who can tell you).

You could also Google the product information and find out if the seat has been recalled or how it stands on national lists in terms of safety ratings. You could email/phone the manufacturer as well and they could tell you, although obviously some shady manufacturers could pretend like you need to buy newer just to make a sale. But you could probably tell if they're being bogus or not based on the call.


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## beanma

so, i thought about posting this in the decluttering forum, but i knew what those ladies would say (get rid of them!) and thought i would approach this problem from a greener perspective. soooo....

i (confession) am a bit of a packrat. i hang on to old magazines way too much. i'm not quite ready to part with my Organic Gardenings, but i've gotten rid of a lot of other miscellaneous mags. i'm having a hang-up with National Geographics, though. my parents kept a large collection and they still take up room on their shelves. so i started collecting them off and on years ago (10 maybe). i have several different stacks of them and i go back and forth between wanting to save them (recycle at home) for dd1 and dd2 to look at and do projects with when they're older (too many graphic photos for my sensitive kids at this age) and tossing them out (reducing by recycling or giving away on freecycle). thoughts? shall i hang on to them in hopes of recycling in projects or shall i reduce the clutter in my home and recycle them or freecycle them?


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## calicocj

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
so, i thought about posting this in the decluttering forum, but i knew what those ladies would say (get rid of them!) and thought i would approach this problem from a greener perspective. soooo....

i (confession) am a bit of a packrat. i hang on to old magazines way too much. i'm not quite ready to part with my Organic Gardenings, but i've gotten rid of a lot of other miscellaneous mags. i'm having a hang-up with National Geographics, though. my parents kept a large collection and they still take up room on their shelves. so i started collecting them off and on years ago (10 maybe). i have several different stacks of them and i go back and forth between wanting to save them (recycle at home) for dd1 and dd2 to look at and do projects with when they're older (too many graphic photos for my sensitive kids at this age) and tossing them out (reducing by recycling or giving away on freecycle). thoughts? shall i hang on to them in hopes of recycling in projects or shall i reduce the clutter in my home and recycle them or freecycle them?

I am the same way with magazines, it is a constant battle for me....

Could you compromise somehow and keep just a small selection of the National Geographics, and then freecycle or recycle the rest?

Like maybe save all the ones from the years when your DC were born, or one from each year corresponding to you or your DC's birth months, then they'd have something meaningful to look at and craft with later, but you wouldn't be overwhelmed or tied down by the clutter?

good luck


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## kellyh

I think NG is way too educational and beautiful to get rid of. I'd get rid of all the other ones. Put the NG's in a box and find a place to keep them where they won't bother you. Out of sight, out of mind.
Your kiddos will appreciate them when the time is right!!!


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## onyxravnos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kellyh* 
I think NG is way too educational and beautiful to get rid of. I'd get rid of all the other ones. Put the NG's in a box and find a place to keep them where they won't bother you. Out of sight, out of mind.
Your kiddos will appreciate them when the time is right!!!









:


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## beanma

really? on the NGs? i mean as a kid i did sometimes flip through my folks' shelf of them, but i probably used the world book encyclopedias more often. you can google anything now and i'm definitely not going out and buying a set of encyclopedias. seems to me (in my decluttering mode) that you could find most anything on NG's site, of course (in my recycling mode) you wouldn't have pictures you could cut out, etc. i mean, i'm not sure i appreciate my parents's collection. my mom has asked me a time or two if i'd like to have them (date from the 50s/60s i guess) and i don't really want them. NGs just seem to "special" to throw in the recycling bin, though. hrmmmmm...


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## kellyh

You gotta do what you gotta do.
BUT don't you think there is something wonderful about putting your hands on a book (or a mag). It's just not the same as looking something up on the internet! That's just me tho'. When you google something it's usually a specific. Just flipping through NG might introduce your kids to something they never thought of before. Then they can research further. I say keep 'em!!!


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
really? on the NGs? i mean as a kid i did sometimes flip through my folks' shelf of them, but i probably used the world book encyclopedias more often. you can google anything now and i'm definitely not going out and buying a set of encyclopedias. seems to me (in my decluttering mode) that you could find most anything on NG's site, of course (in my recycling mode) you wouldn't have pictures you could cut out, etc. i mean, i'm not sure i appreciate my parents's collection. my mom has asked me a time or two if i'd like to have them (date from the 50s/60s i guess) and i don't really want them. NGs just seem to "special" to throw in the recycling bin, though. hrmmmmm...

I agree with the previous post that you may want to keep a few, but I'm with you. I mean, I like magazines but I like space and not being cluttered more. I'd freecycle them or take them to a used book store. I bet someone out there would love them! And it would be a shame to just recycle them.


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## EnviroBecca

Quote:

Just flipping through NG might introduce your kids to something they never thought of before. Then they can research further. I say keep 'em!!!








I like the idea of keeping a selection of them and selling/giving away the rest. That's what I tend to do with old magazines.


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## 59046

NGs- I would offer them on Freecycle, call Value Village, Goodwill etc and see if they would accept them and last- recycle them. I understand what others are saying, but I have a rule in my house. If I am not currently using it, I need to donate it or lend it to others who could use it. The only thing that doesn't fall in this category are favorite baby clothes and baby items to be used for the next baby and a practical sized box of keepsakes/memorabilia.


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## krabigirl

I'm new here but would like to subscribe! DH and I are just starting out in our journey to live greener. Our start is pretty humble...just recycling as much as possible, and avoiding bottled water. We use a Brita filter and I just ordered a Sigg cup to use while out and about. I can't believe how long we used those stupid disposable plastic bottles! (embarrassed!)

Also, another thing we are finally doing is using the resuable bags we have, and to walk for errands as much as we can.

Ok, back to reading all of these informative posts!


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## Serendipity

hi everyone! i can't remember if i already intro'd or not







: i thought we were pretty green until i started reading more here, there is just so much more we should be doing. i struggle with getting discouraged too easily...

anyway i have a few questions.

1. are you a loud outspoken advocate for green topics in general? i want to tell everyone i know and especially my family all about the things i'm learning and implementing in our lives but i also don't want to be obnoxious.

2. what are your thoughts on building houses new instead of buying an exsisting home? we are nowhere near owning a home, but we remain hopeful that someday our debt will paid off or atleast down enough that we can buy







and i debate a lot with my husband about building a new home not being a very envionmentally responsible.... any thoughts?

3. i've been getting rid of a lot of plastic. i know it's better to freecycle or goodwill it, which is what i have done, but at the same time i feel bad doing that, knowing what i know about the hazardous chemicals in plastic.

ok that's all i remember at the moment. thanks everyone, looking forward to learning and discussing







:


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## onyxravnos

granolapunk

1. yep. I try not to get 'in your face' about it but i point out other options and why I don't use mainstream things. exp: today I told my SIL and MIL about why I don't use normal deoterant, the type I do use, and other options instad of the chemicals on the market. Sometimes I make a diffrence sometimes I don't







: alot of times though they don't even know that an option exsisted.

2.
well it depends, a house that needs love is always good. I wouldn't buy a brand new built house that's on the market though. But buying land and building your own house gives you alot of options... strawbale homes, recycled materials, well insilated walls etc. if your building your own house I'd say its worth it and maybe even better.

3.

better then throwing it in the dumpster..







:sthat's how i feel about 'sposie diapers.... but i give them away anyway...


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## josybear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolapunk* 
2. what are your thoughts on building houses new instead of buying an exsisting home? we are nowhere near owning a home, but we remain hopeful that someday our debt will paid off or atleast down enough that we can buy







and i debate a lot with my husband about building a new home not being a very envionmentally responsible.... any thoughts?

i read a book with a chapter on this very subject, it was called your green home: a guide to planning a healthy, environmentally friendly new home.
one chapter discussed the pros and cons of building new vs. renovating an old house. they basically said that building from scratch will inevitably have a greater negative impact on the environment. part of that can be made up for by having an eco-friendly, resource-saving home, but there's still that initial impact. on the other hand, while an older home can be made very, very green, it will never be quite as green as a place that is designed specifically for environmental friendliness.
i highly recommend the book, it has fair and balanced arguments and reviews and stuff. i learned lots and lots. i got my copy from the library, hopefully you can, too.
hope that helps.


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## Scrubsjm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolapunk* 
anyway i have a few questions.

1. are you a loud outspoken advocate for green topics in general? i want to tell everyone i know and especially my family all about the things i'm learning and implementing in our lives but i also don't want to be obnoxious.

Actually I did this just yesterday and I was obnoxious! I went in a store for less then 10 minutes and came out to find brochures for a bank on every ones windshield including mine. Well we all know what people do with those papers, either toss them on the ground or take them home and toss them. So I called the bank and told them if I was in need of a new bank I certainly wouldn't chose them. I went on to say how disappointed I was that they chose a method of advertising that is just going to create a large amount of trash in a parking lot. Now granted I doubt the person who answered the phone thought I was anything but a crazy person, but maybe if a few other people who were papered called as well next time they will chose a less obnoxious and wasteful way of advertising.


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## beanma

cool on calling the bank!

thanks y'all for the feedback on the national geos, too. it's good to know that i have company on that score. so some of y'all have a stash of them?


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## ramlita

We've got an N.G. stash!

It's not like they take up so much room! Once they're stacked/lined up nicely, they look nice and are always right there for the browsing.
I think of them as sacred. When I come across a small batch at the transfer station, I often grab a few, mark them to show that they're duplicates of ones we already have, and they're used for art projects. I love collage, and the quality of NG's photography and printing are pretty much unrivaled.


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## Scrubsjm

Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations? I know it all depends on how strict your HOA is and if they check up on you or neighbors complain I'm just curious if anyone else has gotten away with it. I'm currently using an umbrella line against the rules so I just put it up in the morning and once the clothes are dry I take it down and put it in the house again, I've only been doing it for the past week but so far so good. I really don't want to put a line in the house, because when we did it in the past it drove dh bonkers, plus I appreciate the suns affect in bleaching the diapers and stains out of my messy toddlers clothes!


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## Scrubsjm

One more question. What is the most environmentally friendly thing to do with pet waste? Everything I've read says not to compost it so dh has been flushing the dog poop to avoid putting it in plastic bags and sending it out in the trash, he has also just started switching the cats over to wheat litter which is also flush-able. But now I'm thinking isn't that contributing to water waste as well? Then again we flush our own waste so maybe it's the same thing. Has anyone looked into the best method of disposal or what do you all do?


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## krabigirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations? I know it all depends on how strict your HOA is and if they check up on you or neighbors complain I'm just curious if anyone else has gotten away with it. I'm currently using an umbrella line against the rules so I just put it up in the morning and once the clothes are dry I take it down and put it in the house again,









:

I've been wondering the same thing. We currently rent an older home that is governed by a HOA. It's not that strict EXCEPT for things like clotheslines.







I've been thinking about getting one of those umbrella kinds, but our neighbors are really nosy and the type to tell the landlord. I hope to hear what others have done.


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## CaraNicole

_subbing!_


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## purplepixiewing

Signing up! Lots of great green stuff here, I love it. I just read this whole thread very good reading. I so want to go Biodiesel, maybe sometime soon.

I'm so irritated about HOA not allowing laundry lines, that just seems crazy to me. I love seeing laundry drying in the breeze it's such a homey sight.

That's it for now just want to subscribe to this thread. Talk to you later.


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## onyxravnos

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations? !

Mmmmmmm more reason I don't live in the states! I feel if you own something you should be able to do whatever you freaking want with it.

do you have a fence you could hide it behind?


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## Scrubsjm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onyxravnos* 
do you have a fence you could hide it behind?

I do have it behind a fence in my backyard, it's actually right up on my back patio in the center of my backyard, so the only place it is visible from is various neighbors backyards. So I'm hoping the only way I'll get in trouble is if one of my neighbors reports me and I'm counting on them not to do that, we shall see.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations? I know it all depends on how strict your HOA is and if they check up on you or neighbors complain I'm just curious if anyone else has gotten away with it. I'm currently using an umbrella line against the rules so I just put it up in the morning and once the clothes are dry I take it down and put it in the house again, I've only been doing it for the past week but so far so good. I really don't want to put a line in the house, because when we did it in the past it drove dh bonkers, plus I appreciate the suns affect in bleaching the diapers and stains out of my messy toddlers clothes!

We got a notice on our door about a week after we put ours up: nothing above the fenceline. So we took a hack saw to it, and now it's a foot shorter, and lives below the fenceline


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## Sali

Subscribing and now I'm going to go back to the beginning to read the whole thing and come out on the other side smarter and greener! Thanks!

Seema


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## kellid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
One more question. What is the most environmentally friendly thing to do with pet waste?

I was just thinking about this. I am also curious on what the best thing to do is?


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## Mamamazing

Subbing.

I'm committed to buy all Energy Star appliances.

I am actively pestering dh to buy a Honda Civic because I don't need the damn van for around town trips. (he's going on about costs, I want to keep the van for skiing and pulling the boat.)
Buying efficient light bulbs except in the Livingroom, Diningroom, and bedrooms because they still bother my eyes.

I just switched to grass fed organic milk and organic free range eggs.


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## Mrs.Bufford

Wouldn't burying the pet waste be best? a Compoop pile?


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## beanma

i've read different things about the pet waste. apparently it can leach into the ground water? i dunno. why that's worse than putting it in the landfill is beyond me. we flush occasionally, although it's a pretty gross job. we just let a lot of it lie and decompose in our yard naturally, which is probably gross, too, but it's in areas where the kids don't play. we have a very wooded yard. which kinda brings me to my next question...

we really have a very very very wooded yard. it's in the middle of town, but our town loves trees and not necessarily lawns, although there are plenty of those, too. anyway, i don't want to cut down trees, but i long to have a real garden. we've been in this house about 10 years and i've tried different patches of ground that get dappled sunlight with not much success. it's really like we live in the woods. we have no grass, but plenty of







english ivy, curse you former homeowners. i have had pots on the deck and that seems to work just barely okay. we get a few tomatoes and some lettuce and maybe a pepper or two, but if i had my dream sunny quarter acre i would have so much stuff i'd have to cancel our CSA! so should we sacrifice some trees for some sun and growing our own food? none of the trees are gorgeous specimens, but they are all soaking up CO2 and giving us good O2. should we just move? we've talked about it, but we've got a lot of fixing up to finish, before we could sell. we might like to move to the mountains (3.5/4 hrs from here, but no job prospects and the thought of moving really makes me take a deep deep breath.) should i just suck it up and continue with the measley potted garden onthe deck? i think i'm doomed under any scenario. not sure we get enough sun anywhere w/o really clearing out some trees and i'm not sure the soil is good enough anyway boo-hoo







.


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## Ianthe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations? I know it all depends on how strict your HOA is and if they check up on you or neighbors complain I'm just curious if anyone else has gotten away with it. I'm currently using an umbrella line against the rules so I just put it up in the morning and once the clothes are dry I take it down and put it in the house again, I've only been doing it for the past week but so far so good. I really don't want to put a line in the house, because when we did it in the past it drove dh bonkers, plus I appreciate the suns affect in bleaching the diapers and stains out of my messy toddlers clothes!

I'll let you know if we get into trouble..









The way I see it, we own the place so they can't evict us without warning. It's 105 outside, and when we run the drier it's 110 inside! There is no way around it! I do put sheets in the drier since our balcony is too small for them.


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## purplepixiewing

So for the dog poo thing, they do sell a thingy that you burry in the ground and you put the poo in it with this enzyme stuff and it breaks it all down and then leaches it out into the ground. It's supposed to be safe and all that we had one when I was growing up and I seem to remember it working well. I'm going to try to find a link for one. I also remember reading somewhere that you are not supposed to flush dog doo. I don't know why and can't even remember right now where I read that.

Beanma, as far as your trees go, if you are planning on staying a while I might choose to sacrifice a bit of the trees if you can find a good spot for a little garden. If you're worried about not having good enough soil then I would say just do some raised beds and bring in some great soil to fill the beds. Your veggies will absorb some CO2 and produce some lovely O2 plus nourishment for your tummy too.

Off to look for a link to the dog poo disposal.

O.K. I found a link, this is what I was talking about.
http://uniquedistributors.com/doggiedooley.html


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## beanma

okay, got another question for y'all. i'm thinking of painting my cabinets and want to do it in the greenest way i can. see my thread here and help me out -- http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=700735 .

thanks


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## blizzard_babe

New to this thread... drawn in by the doggie dooley conversation.

We've been talking about getting one of those, but Alaska doesn't seem like the ideal place for it.

Grr... just found this quote on the site: _"These units may not function properly when ground temperature reaches 40 degrees or less. You can extend the use time by adding warm water and using our Liquid Super Dijest-It Septic System Digester."_

I've never lived anywhere where it DOESN'T get waaaaaay below 40 degrees for at least a few months. Ah well.


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## delfuego

beanma:

Oh, I know their gonna pull my treehugger card for saying this but... just cut down the #@!% trees!







: I never thought that would come from me!









Really though, pick the two or so trees that would make the biggest difference (probably the southernmost ones) and cut them down. Make some beautiful furniture out of the wood (oh! maybe even kitchen cabinet doors!







) or chop it up and compost it. If you still feel too guilty donate some money or time to a tree planting project in a low-income neighborhood or close to a freeway where they really need trees. Then, use the new sunny space you've made very wisely. Check out vertical gardening or urban gardening techniques. Someone else said raised planter beds to deal w/ the poor soil... I agree but in the meantime be adding compost to your soil to build it up where it needs to be.

It sounds like you're planning on being in the house for awhile w/ all your remodeling plans so don't feel guilty making it work for you! Think about all the *very* locally grown organic produce you can feed your family! Maybe you can even make covered planting beds and grow all year!

BTW... English Ivy was considered a panacaea in Medieval England... so don't curse it too much... just use it, it's good for your skin... and try to keep it off the house!

I don't know what to tell you about the cabinets. You're just looking for a quick fix and not for too long of a time period anyhow so I would just paint them. Do a quick sanding first to rough up the surface. I don't think you're going to have a problem. Personally, I paint over everything, I've never had anything bubble or flake off like people tell me it will.

Good Luck!


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## beanma

thanks, delfuego (like dan zanes, btw?). i'm not even sure which trees i would need to cut, but it's good to know that you wouldn't turn me into the green police if i did axe a few.

thanks for the feedback on the cabinets, too. i think i might give it a whirl with one door and see if it looks like it's going to work before i do the whole shebang.


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## delfuego

well, i had actually never heard of dan zanes... so i had to go look him up. it's funny i was just at the library yesterday getting a bunch of music for ds. he's really into music so i thought he might appreciate having some of his own cd's. of course there's alot of crappy kids music out there so i just stuck w/ the classics. i got some pete seeger, woody guthrie, ella jenkins and of course... "not for kids only". i'll have to check out dan zanes when i go back. any more suggestions?


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## RaRa7

Dan Zanes is our absolute favorite!!!








Ds likes Laurie Berkner but I don;t care for *much* of her stuff-love her colorful clothes though


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## RaRa7

oh yes-love love love the compilations "For the Kids" and "For the Kids, Too"


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## beanma

well dan is definitely worth checking out. don't know if you looked at his bio, but in paragraph 3 you might see what led me to ask the question...


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## mariamaroo

www.davidgrover.com - very much in the Pete Seeger/Ella Jenkins/Woody Guthrie vein, but in an updated way.


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## MamaKalena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
okay, got another question for y'all. i'm thinking of painting my cabinets and want to do it in the greenest way i can. see my thread here and help me out -- http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=700735 .

thanks









If you're looking to cut back on the amount of paint you use, you might consider routing out the innner square of some of the cabinets and inserting glass. We did this with our cabinets and it really brightens things up. Glass is pretty inexpensive, the drawback is that you need the right tools to do the cutting, but you can probably rent them. If you don't like the insides of your cabinets you can use a frosted or ribbed glass.


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## beanma

mama kalena, i would like to do glass in one cabinet that hangs over a penninsula counter, but not sure if we can do what you suggest since they're so cheap. they're pressboard (aka fake wood). i'm not sure they would hold a router cut or might just crumble. maybe we could replace just those doors with real wood, or maybe we'll work something else out. dh likes how having the doors off both sides of those penninsula cabinets lets in light from our patio doors. i'm afraid i'll knock a glass all the way through the open side







.

i did paint one of the worst doors yesterday with white no VOC Sherwin Williams Harmony as a primer. it already looks tons better. i think it's going to work okay. it seemed to stick fine. i was worried about the fake wood finish on the pressboard not holding onto the paint, but i washed and sanded a little and i think it did fine. really, just about anything is going to look better than what we had.

on music, dan zanes, laurie berkner (my 3 yr old's fave), billy jonas, jimmy magoo, ralph's world, farmer jason, jamie broza, wee hairy beasties, taj mahal (in the pete seeger, woody guthrie vein), the woody guthrie compilation Daddy O Daddy, the terrible twos, elizabeth mitchell (solo), and lisa loeb and elizabeth mitchell, justin roberts, baron von rumblebuss, i think i could add a few more, too, but that should get you started. check your library and see if they have any of these.


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## beanma

oh, btw, arismommy, see you're in NC, too. did you know dan zanes has shows in greensboro and charlotte next month? check out his site...


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## kimberlychapman

1) On NatGeos...yes lots of stuff is available on Google but a significant proportion of stuff posted online is questionable, if not outright crap. Kids need to learn to consult and cite multiple sources. My husband was a university professor until recently and was not impressed with students who just cut-and-paste from the top three Google search hits for a given subject...aside from the flagrant plagiarism, the lack of diversity in sources is unappealing at best in an academic context.

So if you have room, save them. Worst comes to worst they're a beautiful photo collection, and part of how we teach our children to love and respect the earth and other cultures is by showing them that kind of beauty.

As an aside...I went to university for anthropology and journalism thinking I'd then go write for NatGeo. Within days of starting classes I learned that NatGeo is considered the tabloid of the anthropological world! In fact, I also learned at the time (this was early 90s) that they were no longer hiring writers, but simply hiring freelance photographers and buying field notes and then paying someone in NYC to write up the notes as articles. So it's lovely, but it's a pop culture rendering of anthropological science.

2)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolapunk* 
1. are you a loud outspoken advocate for green topics in general? i want to tell everyone i know and especially my family all about the things i'm learning and implementing in our lives but i also don't want to be obnoxious.

I am blunt and outspoken about it all the time. I don't go out of my way to be a jerk about it but neither do I sugar coat. I try primarily to lead by example. For instance, when I've worked in places where people were prone to throwing away recyclables, I would make a point of moving them to the recycle bin. I didn't say anything, I just did it. Or if recycling wasn't available, I would politely offer to take people's recyclables home with me to put in my recycling there. Some people thought I was a looney (I probably am). Others appreciated it, especially folks here in Vegas who live in apartments and thus do not have recycling access short of driving it to the depot in person.

If I make a point of doing the eco-thing and others don't and they feel bad about it, that's their problem, and their choice/opportunity to change their behaviour. If they don't feel bad, then they weren't going to make the eco-choice anyway.

With things like cloth diapers, I make a point of stating that we use them every chance I get. If anyone asks, I give them gobs of reasons why it rocks, but I'm also honest about the downsides. I've long wanted to do a huge page on my site about the pros and cons, the tips and tricks we've learned, etc, but I haven't had time.

Smashing people over the head with any ideology rarely works. The best way is to show how good something works for you. If I hear someone complain about the price of diapers or formula, I don't snark them with, "Well it's your own fault for not using cloth or breastfeeding," but I simply say, "Oh, that's too bad, I haven't had that problem because I use cloth or I breastfeed."

The only time I get snarky is when it comes to discussions of public figures, or other general groups. For instance, if someone talks about people who don't recycle, I'll happily snark that. If a politician does/says something that is eco-unfriendly, I'll loudly decry that (and I'm non-partisan about it, which is easy, since most of them are pretty bad on environmental issues).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolapunk* 
3. i've been getting rid of a lot of plastic. i know it's better to freecycle or goodwill it, which is what i have done, but at the same time i feel bad doing that, knowing what i know about the hazardous chemicals in plastic.

The danger of plastics in day-to-day, non-heated use is vastly overstated. I recently asked my brother in law, who holds a doctorate in chemistry with a focus on polymers and works for a waste management company in that regard in Australia, if it's true that one shouldn't reuse water bottles because of chemical leakage.

He confirmed what I'd otherwise read: most common plastics do not leak chemicals unless you do something to them so drastic that you're going to wreck the object anyway. So in the case of water bottles, anything that you do that would release the plasticizer (which is what holds the chemicals together) would destroy the bottle.

However, he did say that he never reuses water bottles because of bacteria buildup...he said anything you can do to clean that type of plastic thoroughly would also destroy the bottle.

In general, it's probably not a good idea to microwave food inside of plastic, because while it's considered safe on a small scale, repeated microwavings do break down the plasticizers and that could lead to chemical transfer. You can tell by the way some of those plastics get brittle the more you microwave them.

But reusing plastic in safe ways is perfectly acceptable. Ideally, less plastic in the first place would be better in terms of overall reduction. But if the reused plastic slows production of something that isn't likely to be made in a non-plastic form, go for it.

I actually tried to find a freecycle or fairly priced reused potty for my toddler, but had no luck and had to resort to buying new. It wasn't that we couldn't afford it, but I wanted to use less plastic, and we didn't want to spend a fortune on a wooden one. If more people had put their used potties out there, we would have reused instead and that would have been one less new plastic item in the stream.

So I would encourage reusing/recycling plastic items, as long as they're in good condition and have been used safely and properly.

4)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Scrubsjm* 
Has anyone had experience hanging a clothesline against HOA regulations?

Gahhhhh...HOA evilness....

Ours won't let us hang laundry in any way that's viewable by anyone. So even if it's below the fence line, if a neighbour can see it from a second-story window, we could get cited for it. We are considerably unhappy with this...living in Las Vegas, clothes would dry very quickly outside, albeit stiff as a board, but then we could do a light fluff in the dryer instead of running it all of the time.

I recently put out one of those fold-away rack things and hung the cloth diapers on it, mostly for a good sun-bleaching (which totally works!). Nobody noticed, so nobody complained, but if I did it often enough someone surely would.

I am drafting a letter to the local water authority at the moment to complain about our HOA making us replant dead grass in the summer. It's dead because we follow the water restrictions...our neighbours who do not follow the restrictions have lush lawns. We can't afford to xerascape the yard, and the water authority's rebate for doing it only applies to a certain size and up, which is bigger than our entire yard. So I'm writing to them to complain and demand that either they restrict all HOAs in terms of requiring us to do water-wasteful things (such as planting new grass in June), and/or increase the scope of the rebate to include small yards, and/or significantly raise the cost of higher water use thresholds to be deeply punishing.

If our water usage even with cloth diapers can be below Threshold 4 all the time (unless we have a leak, which we immediately fix), then surely the cost for that threshold should be punitive.

HOAs need to be held to account to be in line with environmental laws. If they want to tell me I can't hang laundry in my front yard, fine, but my backyard is my private space and I ought to be able to hang what I want there so long as it doesn't directly impact a neighbour (ie hang over their space).

But HOAs are lucrative and politically powerful so don't count on change happening any time soon. Lawns are more important than the environment, dontchaknow...







:


----------



## beanma

hey y'all,

just thought i'd bop by and put a two green







s up for Barbara Kingsolver's new book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. it's a memoir of their experience living off local food. i'm halfway through and already i've learned that apparently making your own cheese isn't too hard(!) and you can just use local milk from your grocery store/co-op/farmer's mkt. you don't have to have your own cow







. anyway, lots of good inspiration for folks who want to eat locally and seasonally and reduce fuel consumption and packaging by not buying apples from new zealand and a buncha stuff in boxes. easy, but thought provoking read.


----------



## straighthaircurly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *granolapunk* 
2. what are your thoughts on building houses new instead of buying an exsisting home? we are nowhere near owning a home, but we remain hopeful that someday our debt will paid off or atleast down enough that we can buy







and i debate a lot with my husband about building a new home not being a very envionmentally responsible.... any thoughts?


Well, I am not a believer in running out to the countryside and building a house unless you plan to be a farmer. But I am a believer in buying an empty lot in an already well established neighborhood.

We have greened our current house about as well as we can with super efficient appliances, CFL bulbs, completely reinsulated, efficient heating system, new windows or storm windows, removed a lot of lawn and planted more sustainably, etc. But now an opportunity has come where we could buy an infill lot in the suburb where we live now (a 1st ring 'burb). It is a beautiful, wooded lakeshore lot that has never been developed. Now my heart would break if a builder had bought that lot, stripped it bare and put up a McMansion. So instead we bought it, plan to build a LEED certified home (I'm aiming for platinum certification), plan to remove all the buckthorn, protect the large trees and end up with no lawn. We plan to install geothermal heating/cooling and use insulated concrete form (ICF) construction. I figure that has got to be "greener" than letting the typical builder get their hands on it!


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## pixiewytch

Hey, I don't get to pop in on this thread as often as I would like but I just wanted to let my southeast mamas know that publix is selling green bags for 1.49 a piece!! They have them at the register and we were dead broke but we bought a couple. I hope to buy even more the next time I go. You can't beat that price. Here they are if you haven't seen them before.

http://www.greenbag.info/


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Hey, I don't get to pop in on this thread as often as I would like but I just wanted to let my southeast mamas know that publix is selling green bags for 1.49 a piece!! They have them at the register and we were dead broke but we bought a couple. I hope to buy even more the next time I go. You can't beat that price. Here they are if you haven't seen them before.

http://www.greenbag.info/

Or if you hate Flash websites as much I do, http://www.greenbag.info/staticBM/index.html.

That's pretty cool.


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## transformed

I usually use eco-bag but I love the new publix ones! I bought one and made a gift basket out of it for a friend. I will probably buy more!


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## Oana

subscribing -- keep these coming!


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## mamarabolli

My whole foods sells these for 1.50

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Hey, I don't get to pop in on this thread as often as I would like but I just wanted to let my southeast mamas know that publix is selling green bags for 1.49 a piece!! They have them at the register and we were dead broke but we bought a couple. I hope to buy even more the next time I go. You can't beat that price. Here they are if you haven't seen them before.

http://www.greenbag.info/


----------



## Oana

I was happy to see Publix selling these, hopefully more people will begin using their own bags.

I like Trader Joe's bags, the ones made of canvas. They are 99c and larger than the green bags.

Oana


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## eden/averymum

I can't read this whole threa, it's 21 pages long. but I'm joing in and subbing


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## eco_mama

gosh, i havent been here in a looooong time







:

we use frontier's canvas bags and eco bags


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## beanma

hey, i've got a question for you greenies about termites. while picking up a stepping stone next to our front porch today for the girls to look under (hunting roly polies) i came across *ack* termites. we live in the south, so they're prevalent here in the woods, dirt, etc, but since it was so close to our house it just got me kinda heebie-jeebied. i don't think they are in the house. there's a brick foundation right there, but they were way darn close. i moved the stepping stone and dug up the mites, but i was wondering if there's an termite control that is more eco-friendly than others. i know that terminix and orkin would like to come out on a monthly basis or something and pesticide our perimeter, but we've been avoiding that so far. any ideas? our yard is _very_ wooded so there's a lot of natural materials for them to munch.


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## mum2be

Has anyone used the Kleen Kanteen sippy? Dd is 10 months and she is not liking the Born sippy cups that are Bisphenol-A free.

How fast does the liquid come out of the KK? Is it just a spout like a water bottle? Is it too impractical for a 10 month old? I'm looking for something other than the plastic Avent sippy cups and this is all I could find. We have a Sigg one, but it's huge!

Thanks


----------



## Sali

the klean kanteen sippy I have uses an Avent spout--so it should work the same as your current. We love ours!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Has anyone used the Kleen Kanteen sippy? Dd is 10 months and she is not liking the Born sippy cups that are Bisphenol-A free.

How fast does the liquid come out of the KK? Is it just a spout like a water bottle? Is it too impractical for a 10 month old? I'm looking for something other than the plastic Avent sippy cups and this is all I could find. We have a Sigg one, but it's huge!

Thanks









You might like this sippy:

http://www.thermos.com/SubCategories...og&SubMenuID=0

My son has it and it seems to work fine for him.

We have the KK sippy and never used it. It's too tall and doesn't have handles. But YMMV.


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Yes, it was a false alarm. I just want to make sure about the Thermos brand sippy.

Did we ever solve this puzzle? I want to buy a green sippy cup for a friend's baby-shower. Did we ever come to a consensus on what was the best?


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
Did we ever solve this puzzle? I want to buy a green sippy cup for a friend's baby-shower. Did we ever come to a consensus on what was the best?

Oh, I missed this. What was the controversy?


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Oh, I missed this. What was the controversy?

Just trying to figure out what sippy cup is the most green and does not leach. The thermos one is cute, cute, cute and I love the handles, but I haven't heard anything about it not leaching.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
Just trying to figure out what sippy cup is the most green and does not leach. The thermos one is cute, cute, cute and I love the handles, but I haven't heard anything about it not leaching.

I'm not sure what would leach...it's all stainless steel with no coating inside.


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I'm not sure what would leach...it's all stainless steel with no coating inside.

I am totally "green" on this issue and I thought that there was some controversy with Sigg bottles leaching. I know they were cleared but it brought other similar bottles under question.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
I am totally "green" on this issue and I thought that there was some controversy with Sigg bottles leaching. I know they were cleared but it brought other similar bottles under question.

Oh, yes, Sigg does have a coating on the inside. I was referring to the Thermos sippy cup.


----------



## mum2be

Yea, I was a little nervous about the the Thermos sippy because I didn't know if there was a coating. For some reason I trusted the Sigg brand over Thermos, and then when the controversy over the Siggs started, I got even more nevous about the Thermos brand.

I just ordered the KK one. It was pricey because I had to buy the sippy attachment separate! I guess if she doesn't use it now, she may down the road.


----------



## flowers

So is the Thermos brand free from coating? Just stainless steel? I think so...if so that is great b/c I love them and they look cool!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
So is the Thermos brand free from coating? Just stainless steel? I think so...if so that is great b/c I love them and they look cool!

Yup!


----------



## pixiewytch

Can someone post a link to these Thermos cups and are they made in china?


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
You might like this sippy:

http://www.thermos.com/SubCategories...og&SubMenuID=0

My son has it and it seems to work fine for him.

We have the KK sippy and never used it. It's too tall and doesn't have handles. But YMMV.

i have no idea where it is made. If you figure it out let me know. Does anyone know where the KK is made?


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
Can someone post a link to these Thermos cups and are they made in china?

This is all I could find, from this website:

"Thermos products are now manufactured in the Far East."


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
Does anyone know where the KK is made?

China. It's not printed on the bottles, but mine said so on the sticker on the bottom when I bought them. I'm nervous about all this China stuff, too, and frustrated by how difficult it is to avoid! At least in this case, it's just a stainless steel bottle, not a food that could have additives or something with potentially toxic paint. I think all stainless steel is equally inert, regardless of the specific alloy (I'll try to remember to ask my hubby later, he knows a lot about metals).


----------



## pixiewytch

Okay, thanks for the link. Those are nice. They are about the same price as the siggs bottles I think. I'm leaning toward those since the KK is made in china. I know they are probably safe enough but I'm just trying not to support that economy anymore if I can help it. It is tough though since so many baby things are made in china.







:


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## beanma

i hate all that made-in-china stuff, too. it's not that i don't want chinese people to make stuff, but i don't need to support the kind of petroleum expenditure it takes to get it to me and i am leery about safety both of consumables (since the melamine dog food thing) and also w/ respect to the environment.

go local baby!

so i just got finished reading Barbara Kingsolver's new book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. what an inspiring read, especially at the very end. i really wanna grow more of our food, but some of you may have read my whining about our shady yard before. we do have a great farmer's mkt and belong to a wonderful CSA so that's comforting. the book is about food, but more than food, too. it's about local economies and self-sufficent communities (not survivalism) and really about how the little steps we can take may be enough even if we get disheartened and think they aren't -- they might just be. highly recommend it!

so, the other things i wanted to post to our tribe about are two petitions i got today. one is about organic foods --

Quote:

www.ewg.org/organics/petition

Congress is about to vote on a new Farm Bill, which could be the first to include fair funding for organics. But to make this happen, our Representatives need to hear from us!

Act now. Add your name to the Grow Organics petition and join the fight for pesticide-free produce. EWG Action Fund's goal is 30,000 signatures by July 15. Tell Congress to vote for organics.
and the other is on the energy bill:

Quote:

http://ucsaction.org/campaign/07_10_...e_energy_bill/

Tell The House to Green Up The Energy Bill

The Energy Bill, passed by the Senate last month, made important progress toward addressing America's oil and environmental security-but it needs to be stronger. While the Senate did increase fuel economy standards for the first time in more than 30 years, they unfortunately included unnecessary loopholes that could undermine the new 35 mile per gallon standard. The bill also lacked a renewable energy standard requiring utilities to produce a percentage of our electricity from clean, renewable sources like the wind and sun. And the increase in biofuels production included in the bill needs stronger safeguards against global warming pollution to protect our air, soil, and water.

Thankfully, we still have a chance to strengthen this critical bill now that action moves to the House. Please let your representative know that you want an Energy Bill that locks in strong fuel economy standards, guarantees more clean energy for consumers, and ensures that biofuels are part of the global warming solution, not part of the problem.
pass 'em along!


----------



## treefolk

flowers --- just had to comment .....

I jusy viewed your myspace page and I don't know why but the song and the slideshow made me weep....so peacefully and happily, I weeped!

btw - I'm a Hilary, too!

Thanks, I needed a happy tear!


----------



## lightsound

Yes I found another family!!! I'm sorry I haven't read through all of the first and second thread, just excited to be connected with like minds...I am all about green - we are going to have a space where I can grow all of our food, yes even humanure composting will be a part! I am looking to live off grid close to a freshwater source - I think the only way we can begin living - enjoying life and in harmony - is by returning to nature. I have been eating raw vegan style only a month and a half and I feel soooooo great - it is so easy to move around, full of energy, clarity, renewed life purpose...also dropped 14 pounds so far without trying and still losing...I feel like I am finally just awake! Thank you! : )


----------



## snozzberry

fyi, the Sigg lining is an epoxy, but the company says it doesn't contain BPA. I started with a plain stainless steel bottle, but it was too big and the mouth hole was too big, so I got a Sigg that was a better size for me.


----------



## majikfaerie

:







:
subbing


----------



## Mali

Hi,

I'm not sure exactly where to post this but figured someone here might know. I am looking for a good article on the leaching in all the plastic water bottles/containers etc. I just bought a bunch of stainless steel ones for myself, DH and DD and want a good article with facts to give to my parents about it. If anyone knows of a good one, please send me the link. Thanks!


----------



## ani'smama

I don't post here much, but am definitely striving to make our lives more "green". For those of you that pack lunches daily, for kids or yourself, what do you use for packaging things such as grapes, pretzels, chips, and what not? I'm not buying "ziploc" type bags anymore and am looking for alternatives. Ideas?


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mali* 
Hi,

I'm not sure exactly where to post this but figured someone here might know. I am looking for a good article on the leaching in all the plastic water bottles/containers etc. I just bought a bunch of stainless steel ones for myself, DH and DD and want a good article with facts to give to my parents about it. If anyone knows of a good one, please send me the link. Thanks!

I think I just found a pretty good one HERE. I need to read it myself for more education.


----------



## bellymama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
i hate all that made-in-china stuff, too. it's not that i don't want chinese people to make stuff, but i don't need to support the kind of petroleum expenditure it takes to get it to me and i am leery about safety both of consumables (since the melamine dog food thing) and also w/ respect to the environment.

go local baby!

so i just got finished reading Barbara Kingsolver's new book, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. what an inspiring read, especially at the very end. i really wanna grow more of our food, but some of you may have read my whining about our shady yard before. we do have a great farmer's mkt and belong to a wonderful CSA so that's comforting. the book is about food, but more than food, too. it's about local economies and self-sufficent communities (not survivalism) and really about how the little steps we can take may be enough even if we get disheartened and think they aren't -- they might just be. highly recommend it!

so, the other things i wanted to post to our tribe about are two petitions i got today. one is about organic foods --

and the other is on the energy bill:

pass 'em along!

thanks for posting the title of that book. everyday i mean to go get it, but i never remember to search for the title!


----------



## loraxc

Quote:

I don't post here much, but am definitely striving to make our lives more "green". For those of you that pack lunches daily, for kids or yourself, what do you use for packaging things such as grapes, pretzels, chips, and what not? I'm not buying "ziploc" type bags anymore and am looking for alternatives. Ideas?
We use this:

http://www.laptoplunches.com/

LOVE it, but it is plastic. Search for stainless steel bento boxes if you want to avoid plastic.


----------



## Serendipity

in response to lunch/snack holders...

i use these and LOVE them. they are PUL inners, so they are waterproof-ish. i don't know if PUL is as leaching as nasty, does anyone else know for sure? i just like the reusability, supporting a person instead of a company, and cuteness







the woman who makes them is super sweet too.

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id...ion_id=5037872


----------



## eden/averymum

those look great!

it's so expensive to invest in not plastic stuff. I bought a bunhc of PUL because I had read here it was safe and didn't leech. don't know for sure other than I took someone's word for it.

anyoneknow?

I have been meaning to make snack baggies with it. but so far all I've done is cut it up and not much else.









this thread is great! that was a fabulous informative article about plastics full fo great links!


----------



## katie9143

i may have missed it, since this thread is so long!! but does anyone use solar panels? we are looking into buying a house right now and i really want to outfit it with solar panels and wondered if anyone could share pointers and experiences. we live in massachusetts.

thanks!


----------



## pixiewytch

Hi there, we don't have solar panels because we are still renting but we have researched it extensively. Check out realgoods.com for prices on different setups and kit packages. I know it is also a good idea to do some research and see if your state offers any type of rebates or incentives of installing with solar.

The biggest thing I learned so far is that you can go as big or small as you want. Solar systems to power everything in your house at the standard of living you have now can be tens of thousands of dollars initially. If that sounds like a lot you can determine what types of electricity you can live without and if you live in a smaller home you can get by with less. Real goods even has small cabin kits for around $1000 but that would be living off grid in probably a 500SF type of space just to give you an idea of how much solar can vary to individual needs. I'm sure others will give you more information.


----------



## EnviroBecca

Quote:

For those of you that pack lunches daily, for kids or yourself, what do you use for packaging things such as grapes, pretzels, chips, and what not? I'm not buying "ziploc" type bags anymore and am looking for alternatives. Ideas?
We mainly use bags left over from packaged foods: cereal, tortillas, bagels, etc. We rinse them out, dry them over cooking utensils in the dish drainer, and use them again, until they get holes or mold or something. Another option is to use small dishes with lids--plastic ones are lighter weight (and even the semi-disposable type last years with proper care) but there are also ceramic and Pyrex containers. If the risk of breakage is low you can use baby-food jars or other small jars--hoisin sauce and similar condiments often come in small jars perfect for carrot sticks.









We just got back from a convention where we helped a bunch of friends run a Looney Labs demo and tournament room. Obviously, being away from home, we all have to eat in restaurants for some of our meals, but that gets expensive, and most of the restaurants around there serve in plastic-foam boxes...so we minimize it by screening off one corner of the room as a "kitchen". Somebody brings a bread machine







and peanut butter, somebody brings a variety of homemade jams, somebody brings a dispenser that he keeps filled with ice water, various people buy fruit and cheese and chips and salsa at the nearby market, and most of us bring washable dishes for ourselves. My family always brings salads because our farm share arrives the day before we leave, and at this time of year it's mostly salad stuff! I collect all the portion-sized containers I wouldn't mind losing and make an individual salad in each one, and we put them in a cooler with a couple bottles of salad dressing. Most people put their empty containers back in the cooler, so we bring them home to wash and use again...but if they recycle them or take them home themselves, it's no big deal.

In past years we've used our washable dishes for the hotel's free breakfast, but this year we stayed in a different hotel where all the food was individually wrapped and the coffee machine was annoying: It was the type where you put your cup in the slot and press a button and it makes the coffee or latte or whatever into your cup...and the slot was too small for our travel mugs! We had to get one of their 8oz foam cups and pour the coffee from there into our mugs, but at least we used only one cup each day for however much coffee the two of us drank.







I think the smaller of our ceramic mugs from home would've fit, but we hadn't brought them.


----------



## Serendipity

so how about a link for turning your car into veg oil powered?

i'm a little behind the times, but "who killed the electric car?" finally came from our queue and hol-y-crap. i was so disgusted, appalled, infuriated, disheartened, confused and sadly, not surprised. my husband and i have been talking about it for days, it just really reminded us how nastily and crazily all those big companies and the government and media are so intertwined...scary. aaaanyway, is veggie oil power realistic for everyday living mama folk?


----------



## donannedean

All of you green living people. Do you live in a green community or eco-community? Would you like to live in a green community? We are moving to one in Northenrn California near Mt Shasta. It only costs $20,000.00 for a hectare in our community. The idea is that you keep that piece of land creating a space of love for your children and then pass it along to them.
There will be no noise, light, air, earth, or water polution on the land. It will be 1750 acres total. There will be dirt and gravel roads but not for cars. Bikes , horses or walking will be our way of getting around. Alot of us will start by living in a yurt which you can buy for around $6000.00 Also a yome is only $3000.00.
There is more to the philosophy of our eco community which you can find out about by reading the book Anastasia by Vladimir Megre. There is already over 150 of these eco communities in Russia with over 100 families each. That is over 15,000 families living in a new way. It is working and we can change society to be a more conscious and loving place to live in.

If any of you live in an eco community already please tell about your experience.
Donanne


----------



## pixiewytch

Your community sounds great. I've looked into those but DH says no way. He doesn't want to deal with community guidelines and I guess a lot of those costs are more like leasing the land, not really owning it. Maybe you could clear that up. Is 20K to own that piece of land or just leasing a part of the property? That is an awful lot of money to not own something and then have to pay to build something else. That is the biggest reason we didn't consider it. Some of those communities look wonderful though. I would love to hear more from people who have experiences with them since we want to one day buy a yurt ourselves.


----------



## beanma

veggie oil for cars -- yes! it's totally doable. AJP who has posted on this thread can tell you more about it, too. i'll give a brief explanation in case folks don't know the differences in terms and would be happy to answer any questions i can. we drive VW TDIs we run on biodiesel.

biofuels = fuel derived from vegetable matter, veggie oil, animal fat. these include ethanol (typically from corn), and biodiesel (can be produced from any kind of fat, from virgin soybean oil to used french fry grease, to chicken fat), and maybe some others i can't think of right now.

grease cars = diesel engine vehicles that have been modified to run on veggie oil (either virgin or filtered used oil, also known as Waste Veggie Oil -- WVO )

biodiesel = a biofuel derived from oil/grease/fat that can fuel a diesel engine with NO MODIFICATION to the engine. can be homebrewed or bought. some fuel stations mix it with pertroleum diesel to create blends. B100 is 100% biodiesel. B20 is 20% biodiesel and 80% petroleum diesel.

some helpful links:

http://biodieselcommunity.org/
http://www.biodiesel.org/
http://www.biofuels.coop/
http://www.greasecar.com/
http://www.elsbett.com/engl/index.htm

hth


----------



## kellid

For those that have HOA problems with visible clotheslines, take a look at this. They are kinda spendy, but if your crafty, you could make one. Just a thought.


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
veggie oil for cars -- yes! it's totally doable. AJP who has posted on this thread can tell you more about it, too.

I haven't used straight veggie oil, but we've been running biodiesel in our diesel-engine Jeep for about 1 1/2 years now. We have no filling stations near us that sell it at the pump, so we get it 300 gal. at a time through a biofuels co-op in the nearest city and store it at home (that amount lasts us about 6 months). We use 100% biodiesel most of the time, although in the coldest part of winter we'll mix in small amounts of petrol diesel to keep the fuel from gelling. We might modify the vehicle at some point to be able to use straight veggie oil, but haven't done it yet.


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## eden/averymum

I wonder if there are any communities like that close by me.


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## Nazsmum

Hi everyone. I'm a person who has been trying my best to live green since high school. I have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer. OK. I have the pastic bags from the newspaper. (when it rains) Can they be recycled and if so where??


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nazsmum* 
Hi everyone. I'm a person who has been trying my best to live green since high school. I have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer. OK. I have the pastic bags from the newspaper. (when it rains) Can they be recycled and if so where??

Hmm, I'm sure they can be recycled. They should have a number on the bottom somewhere to tell what kind of plastic they are and then I would get a hold of your local recycling company to see what they accept and also start service if you don't already have some.


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## eco_mama

We definitely want to live in some sort of an eco-community when we are able to buy a home. Whether that means buying a bunch of land and then starting one ourselves or buying land/home in one that exists already, I definitely look forward to living in that type of environment. This is the main one in my state I'm interested in.


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## Nazsmum

Thank you eco_mama. I will do that right now.


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nazsmum* 
Thank you eco_mama. I will do that right now.

you're welcome.


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## talia rose

apple was actually voted the least green computer company. one of the big reasons is they shipp all the old computers to china and india where children sift through the computers looking for scrap, exposing themselves to lead and mercury....


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## eden/averymum

so who's the most green computer company?

I had been hoping apple was a good company because we wanted a Mac as our next computer.


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## flowers

Well, I will be looking forward to the answer and I hope it is Mac also b/c we LOVE our new macbook.

I was in the store at the genius bar last week and someone was returning a defective ipod and they said every piece of equipment they receive back is recycled.....at least the screen and plastic parts.


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## talia rose

"(NewsTarget) Apple Inc. has been ranked worst among 14 leading electronics manufacturers in a new Greenpeace survey that evaluated companies based on their use of toxic chemicals and commitment to recycling obsolete products."

http://www.newstarget.com/021867.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/about.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/t...gy-report-card

http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/news/ar...ry_30_-_ap.htm

One thing we can all do is contact Apple and demand change!


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## talia rose

update..apparently greenpeaces "green my apple" campaign (complete with a website mimicking apples with thier poor environmental policys laid out for all to see) worked. apple has announced they will be greening thier practices....
http://members.greenpeace.org/sites/greenmyapple/


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## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talia rose* 
update..apparently greenpeaces "green my apple" campaign (complete with a website mimicking apples with thier poor environmental policys laid out for all to see) worked. apple has announced they will be greening thier practices....
http://members.greenpeace.org/sites/greenmyapple/









Phew....your first post almost gave me a heart attack! I always think it's great when large corps are pressured into change b/c their change has HUGE emphasis on everything.


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## talia rose

while researching the apple thing i came across this: (Green peace is a fantastic site for info!)
"Are you taking Omega supplements to improve your health? If you are, you might want to think twice. In an independent labratory analysis, three different toxic chemicals were identified in the popular brand of Omega-3 fish oil nutritional supplements known as OmegaPure. These contaminants include the pesticides DDT and Dieldrin and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) which have all been identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as 'probable' carcinogens and are banned in the United States."
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/b...-found-in-popu


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## talia rose

Okay one more little thing....this is a link (through GreenPeace) to tell Target to stop selling PVC products. Takes but a moment!

http://members.greenpeace.org/action...n_action=reset

For more about PVCs......

http://organicgrace.com/node/257

http://organicgrace.com/node/256


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## naturallyspeaking

NAK
sub...


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## jlazx2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nazsmum* 
Hi everyone. I'm a person who has been trying my best to live green since high school. I have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer. OK. I have the pastic bags from the newspaper. (when it rains) Can they be recycled and if so where??

My newspaper guy has to buy those bags himself, so I give them back to them or drop off at the newspaper.


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## GinaNY

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ani'smama* 
I don't post here much, but am definitely striving to make our lives more "green". For those of you that pack lunches daily, for kids or yourself, what do you use for packaging things such as grapes, pretzels, chips, and what not? I'm not buying "ziploc" type bags anymore and am looking for alternatives. Ideas?

Perhaps www.ecobags.com I use their produce bags.

or

wetbags. Whamies has mini sizes with really cute prints. Made with PUL but better than ziplocs IMHO www.jilliansdrawers.com has a great selection.


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## kellid

Those of you who are reusing water from the bath tub, how are you getting it from the tub to reuse area? Is there any way to reuse laundry water or sink grey water or otherwise?


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## pixiewytch

Can we talk about corporate co-opting the green movement? I've been really bothered by this lately. I live in Florida where new condos and housing developments pop up like weeds every day. DH works in civil engineering (the work of the devil in green terms if you will) so I know a bit of the backscene on all this development.

I guess what I'm getting at is that all these developments are touting themselves on being "green" with all energy efficient appliances and nature trails. Nevermind that they bulldozed over acres of wetlands just to save some small area of preserve and then name the community after the animal they displaced like "fox trail" "tortoise river" or some nonsense like that. It really sickens me.

To top it off, DH's new company building will be green, with solar panels, wind turbines and all. I kid you not. He works for a company that designs site plans for starbucks, McDonalds, and sprawling subdivisions, but they are having a "green" building. Then they have this new green committee headed by some corporate CEO guy giving suggestions for being green like "use paper cups instead of styrofoam" or "make sure your sprinkle system turns off during a storm". I don't want to poo poo peoples' well intentions but come on!!!!

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I am seeing where corporate America has decided that this green living thing will leave them behind if they don't jump on the bandwagon and make it their own. After all, the real philosophy of green living is buying less which naturally puts them out of business. We can't have that, can we?

So I'm getting frustrated. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that all of a sudden green living is a popular phrase but I'm afraid people are going at it all wrong. Just because you replace all of your appliances with energy efficient ones doesn't make a huge impact. How about living without some of them? I'm not trying to be a naysayer and I'm glad some people are doing what they can but we've got to get the word out there that if peak oil and climate change is real, we have to reduce our standards of living. We can't expect to live the lives we do now and just replace them with all green things. That is what the corporations want us to do so they can cash in on this whole thing.

Does this bother anyone else lately?







:







:


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## eden/averymum

yes! "green" is a fast growing fad and I worry it'll crash and burn as all fads seem to. I know any greenn change is good but it does bother me when people are just jumping on whichever bandwagon passes them by.


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## GinaNY

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 

I don't want to poo poo peoples' well intentions but come on!!!!

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I am seeing where corporate America has decided that this green living thing will leave them behind if they don't jump on the bandwagon and make it their own. After all, the real philosophy of green living is buying less which naturally puts them out of business. We can't have that, can we?

So I'm getting frustrated. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that all of a sudden green living is a popular phrase but I'm afraid people are going at it all wrong. Just because you replace all of your appliances with energy efficient ones doesn't make a huge impact. How about living without some of them? I'm not trying to be a naysayer and I'm glad some people are doing what they can but we've got to get the word out there that if peak oil and climate change is real, we have to reduce our standards of living. We can't expect to live the lives we do now and just replace them with all green things. That is what the corporations want us to do so they can cash in on this whole thing.

Does this bother anyone else lately?







:







:









:

I always wonder about reducing our consumerism. I mean what WOULD people do as far as jobs? Where would your DH do if he wasn't working for his present position? What does your DH think?

We have so many empty business bldgs where I live and yet they still insist on building more empty places. This is so incredibly frustrating







: And don't get me started on the McMansions Errrr! I live in a new development so I can't exactly throw stones, but we are trying our hardest to reduce, reuse and recycle.

Change takes time and we can only do our part and model the behaviors for our friends and family. We just have to continue to find greener ways, support change and try and stay positive.

**waiting for the world to change**


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## Ianthe

Would you rather the corporations NOT use wind and solar power, and keep polluting? SO WHAT if they are trying to go green. It's a GOOD thing. Living green is not a membership only club. You don't have to have dreadlocks anymore to want to care about the enviroment. If a corporation wants to go green, even if it is because of a fad, that means one less peice of coal being burnt, one less plastic bottle in the landfill, and one less CEO driving a Hummer.

ETA: I agree about the big developements and thier naming the new subdivision after whatever they just destroyed.


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## majikfaerie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum* 
yes! "green" is a fast growing fad and I worry it'll crash and burn as all fads seem to. I know any greenn change is good but it does bother me when people are just jumping on whichever bandwagon passes them by.

Wait! there's another bandwagon?? Wait! Let me on!!!








Quote:


Originally Posted by *kellid* 
Those of you who are reusing water from the bath tub, how are you getting it from the tub to reuse area? Is there any way to reuse laundry water or sink grey water or otherwise?

my solution for getting the bathwater out of the tub without messing with the plumbing, was to buy a gas siphoning pump. its a cheap little plastic thing (about $5-10) that has a short length of hose and a little hand pump (obviously, meant for siphoning gas out of a car's tank.) I just use it to pump the bathwater out, and i've managed to attach the fitting to a regular garden hose, that goes out the window and onto my garden







, though you could run it to anywhere, a tank, or even just to a bucket at your feet. I do fill a bucket with part of the water for toilet flushing (well, i used to; we have a composting toilet now)
With using grey water for the garden, you need to keep a bit of an eye on how "grey" the water is, and what plants you're putting it on. Like, if its got a lot of detergent in it, it can kill your plants over time, and they wont be organic any more. but rinse water is fine


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## GinaNY

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizzyQ* 
Would you rather the corporations NOT use wind and solar power, and keep polluting? SO WHAT if they are trying to go green. It's a GOOD thing. Living green is not a membership only club. You don't have to have dreadlocks anymore to want to care about the enviroment. If a corporation wants to go green, even if it is because of a fad, that means one less peice of coal being burnt, one less plastic bottle in the landfill, and one less CEO driving a Hummer.

ETA: I agree about the big developements and thier naming the new subdivision after whatever they just destroyed.

Yikes LizzyQ!! I hear you, but I also think green-washing is a real issue, which can and should be discussed.

EX: I just stayed at the Conquistador Hotel in PR and they made a big deal about not changing and washing my sheets and towels saying they were aware of concerns about the environment. However, their plans for expansion and cutting into the natural hillside to add another golf course were prominently displayed in the lobby.









No dreadlocks here


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## pixiewytch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizzyQ* 
Would you rather the corporations NOT use wind and solar power, and keep polluting? SO WHAT if they are trying to go green. It's a GOOD thing. Living green is not a membership only club. You don't have to have dreadlocks anymore to want to care about the enviroment. If a corporation wants to go green, even if it is because of a fad, that means one less peice of coal being burnt, one less plastic bottle in the landfill, and one less CEO driving a Hummer.

ETA: I agree about the big developements and thier naming the new subdivision after whatever they just destroyed.

Lizzy, I hear you loud and clear but that is totally not my point. I don't care who you are or what you look like or what club you are in. It is all about what you DO. I'm not upset that anyone is doing it because it is a fad. I could care less really but honestly, are they doing much? If you are simply telling your coworkers to use paper cups instead of plastic cups, what kind of difference does that make? Now I'm not trying to make this sound like some crunchier than thou contest either. I understand that many people aren't comfortable with making big changes. Even I need improvement, but I think we have to do something significant instead of just talking about it. When Cindy Sheehan was on Amy Goodman recently she mentioned that if everybody sacrificed something we could create huge change but she said that a whole lot of people don't want to sacrifice anything. That's what I'm getting at. If big corporations begin heading the environmental movement, their message will become one that is of their own interests, not the environment. For instance, I figured out that the reason my DH's company is going "green" is because they get a big break on insurance that way, if they prohibit smoking on property and so forth. I didn't say this was all terrible. I asked if anyone else was concerned or aware of the shift that seems to be happening. I think it's fabulous that corporations start adopting greener practices. I'm simply afraid that if their message is the loudest, the general population won't be making many sacrifices to reverse the effects of climate change.

Gina, I know what you mean about DH's job. I can't get into it here because it would be offtopic but he does freelance photography on the side and really wants out. This is our only income right now and the only thing he has done for years....going back to school and doing something different isn't practical at this point with two kids. We had plans to move offgrid this year but decided to send DS to waldorf instead....sooooo....anyway, he wouldn't really be upset if his company went down, just that he was out of work, kwim?


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## Ianthe

I think it's sad that corporations are only doing it for the tax breaks or to make thier appearance better because of the whole "green movement" that is happening now. But, perhaps they can learn something in the process of thier grean washing. Of course we would want them to do it for the right reasons, but it's still important that they are doing something.


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## pixiewytch

Totally. DH is trying to head the green committee and offer real solutions like the fact that people leave their computers and office lights on all night long. I guess that is one of the things that didn't sit well with me is that the company knows he is very much into environmental change so why didn't they ask him to head the committee or even tell him about it before they set up some big CEO guy who lives in a sprawling house with a Lexus SUV. I don't want to toot our own horn, but I have no doubt that DH is the most qualified person there for something like that so it smacks of corruption that nobody even mentioned it to him.

Then I looked online at their green committee website and saw different topics each month like one on exercise and one on eating fruits and vegetables. Then he told me about the no smoking thing and I figured out that they were just getting a break on their insurance. I mean, honestly, the whole campaign seems to be more about wellness than living green. Sure, eating fruits and vegetables is better for the environment but you have to mention that this is because more meat consumption contributes to destruction of wetlands. Since his company facilitates the destruction of wetlands every day they can't really talk about that or it would be a conflict of interests so they kind of have to mold it into something that is softcore.

Nevertheless, you've got to look at the positive side of everything and maybe at least a few people will start to adopt greener practices in their own lives.


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## donannedean

The eco-community near Mt Shasta CA is going to be only for families that want to own thier piece of land forever so that they can pass it down to thier children. This is one of the big differences between our eco community and most others.
If you want to hear more about other eco communities it is modeled after you can go to
www.ringingcedarsofrussia.org
We will be the first eco-community of its kind in the US.
Donanne


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talia rose* 
update..apparently greenpeaces "green my apple" campaign (complete with a website mimicking apples with thier poor environmental policys laid out for all to see) worked. apple has announced they will be greening thier practices....
http://members.greenpeace.org/sites/greenmyapple/

Actually they announced that they've been comparitively green all along and just haven't been bragging about it. Sorry but the "green my apple" campaign was a bit ridiculous IMO. Absolutely there are myriad things they can improve upon. (Personally I'd like to see them move to organic shirts for their retail employees. At nearly 200 stores, there are a LOT of retail employees and they change shirt designs quite often. As well as recycled or tree-free paper for their literature and manuals, of course.) But saying they are worse than all the other companies is absurd.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Hom...AAB628676.html


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## snozzberry

I have a good friend who was upset by the movie The Inconvenient Truth because she feels like people are just now catching onto something that's been real and looming for a long time, and that frustrates her.

But when we talk about it, my point of view is that any social movement takes a looooong time, and this is just part of it. You have the early adopters who go with something wholeheartedly, and that's awesome. They're the core of the movement. They're people like us. But at some point, you have to progress to the early majority--the people who have the inclination to agree with the movement but haven't been exposed to it and/or haven't been personally affected yet, whether that's seeing a movie or visiting a landfill or having a conversation with a passionate friend or family member or whatever.

I believe this is what we're going through now. And while it may be frustrating to see people take those baby steps like recycling the bare minimum because you're anxious for them to be where you are today, didn't we all start out small? I know I did. I look back at my lifestyle even a couple years ago, and I'm amazed at how far I've come. But if a couple years ago, someone had expected me to set my thermostat at 82 degrees AND implement "if it's yellow, let it mellow" AND downsize to one car for the family AND stop using shampoo AND buy more produce/bulk and less processed food AND go to the farmer's market religiously, etc, etc...that would have been too much. I would have buckled under the expectations or rebelled or lashed out at whomever was expecting so much of me all at once.

This is a journey for all of us. Some of those around us are just starting on their journeys, and it is our job to help guide them along and encourage them to take that next step. Whether that's a family member or a mainstream neighbor or a corporation you or your partner works for. And hopefully, we all have someone or something in our own lives that will keep encouraging US to take our next step in this journey as well.


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## pixiewytch

Snozzberry, I totally agree with you. I know that I have ducked out of the green living challenge thread a couple of months myself because I get easily overwhelmed. It is better to implement small changes at a time so that we don't feel burdened and give up. I'm all well for that.

I guess I was trying to take the conversation in the direction of how corporations may co opt the green movement and derail it to some degree. I'm sure you and most people here don't honestly believe that big corporations care about the environment more than they do profit. Just look at outsourcing and labor/wage conditions in third world countries who make products we buy for example. They aren't going to preach the mantra "reduce, reuse, recycle" because that puts them out of business. Instead they are repackaging their products in ways that look green for sheer marketing purposes. Let's take the full page ads I saw in my newspaper this weekend for new sprawling subdivisions. In one of the ads there is a picture of a guy kayaking on a river. When you read the fine print below it talks about this new community close to shopping centers, dining, and schools. What the heck does any of that have to do with a guy kayaking on the river? Another ad I saw shows a family walking through the woods on a nature trail with a slogan that says "for the family who wants to turn off the tv and get outside". I know where these communities are. They are 200-300K homes for the upper class keep up with the joneses folks in town. I guarantee you all of them have a widescreen tv and wouldn't know a nature trail if it bit them in the arse. Okay, so I don't want to overgeneralize here but what I'm trying to say here is that corporations from developers to those who make our food, household products, and clothing seem to be repackaging something that isn't green at all to make it look green and does anyone else seem concerned about this?

If nobody wants to talk about it, I understand and I'll move on. I just thought this would be the appropriate place to have a dialogue about something that seems awfully important to be aware of right now. I'm trying not to be cynical, really I am, but I just wonder if we will take two steps backwards when the general public buys into this repackaged green marketing mess.

Let me stress that this isn't so much about individuals or families or groups TRYING to do something positive, even a little....it is about big businesses framing the issue in way that markets to green interests without actually doing anything green so that they can still make a huge profit. Then that trickles down to a general public and muddies their understanding of homegrown solutions at being green instead of a consumer driven message. Does that make sense?

Let's imagine for a moment that you and I are in a crowd of people telling them to compost, use family cloth, and recycle glass containers from the store instead of buying plastic ones. Then all of a sudden these big guys come up with bullhorns telling everybody about this great new beautiful housing community that is "green" with brand new energy efficient appliances. They also have a pristine nature preserve (ie. small portion of wetlands saved because the law says they have to). All of a sudden nobody hears you and I. They only hear the guy on the bullhorn. Our message is drowned out for this prettier, repackaged one.

Okay, I'll step off my soapbox now.


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## bellymama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizzyQ* 
Would you rather the corporations NOT use wind and solar power, and keep polluting? SO WHAT if they are trying to go green. It's a GOOD thing. Living green is not a membership only club. You don't have to have dreadlocks anymore to want to care about the enviroment. If a corporation wants to go green, even if it is because of a fad, that means one less peice of coal being burnt, one less plastic bottle in the landfill, and one less CEO driving a Hummer.

ETA: I agree about the big developements and thier naming the new subdivision after whatever they just destroyed.

i agree with both you and the pp...it is great that green is more popular, because it will reach more people. slowly and steadily people will change, but i just hope it doesn't take to long. and every little bit does count
but i agree with pp that when you do certain things and consider it green and now you can just kick back because you did it (like get an energy effecient fridge or something), you are letting people off the proverbial hook.
since i had my son i have gone through big changes is my realization on my imapct on this earth. we use CDs and after using them for a month or so, i started looking at everything in my life differently, i saw so many other things that i could reuse, that i wasn't reusing...and i realized that even though i recycle and buy local and whatnot, i was still not doing that great of a job on reducing my impact...anyway, it was really eye opening and dp and i are changing a lot of what we do and what we use and how we use it(basically i am truly understanding the whole "reduce,reuse and recycle" concept more than i ever did before..yk? like rather than recycling being the end all, i realized (duh!) that if i reduce what i buy and reuse every little thing i can possibly reuse, then there is less to recycle)...and i still feel like there is more to be done...
as long as the fad of green living doesn't get used to promote only certain aspects of green living, in turn making people feel like they did there part and now they can relax, then i am all for it...yk?
you can't buy an energy effecient fridge but then use 5000 paper towels a month....that sort of thing.


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## Theloose

I hear you, pixiewytch.
It's like the whole organic movement, and how the USDA Organic seal is getting to be meaningless. People who know better look for specific third party seals, or better yet, talk to the farmer/manufacturer themselves but the rest of mainstream america thinks they're doing something great for themselves and the environment by buying 'organic' oreos that were made on the other side of the world.
Then that leaves us trying to start over our education campaign, only this time it's 'why organic is bad' and then everyone just gets confused and gives up trying. Well, hopefully not









How could we counter this? How do you get to all the people who have good intentions and are willing to spend money, but don't have the time/inclination to do their own research and so get caught up in the trend rather than the real spirit?


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## pixiewytch

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I read the article in mother earth news recently about the whole USDA organic thing and how corps are trying to loosen organic standards to jump on the bandwagon. That is exactly the sort of thing I'm referring to. I'm glad you brought that up.

As for solutions, I think we have to look outside the green movement itself. We have to acknowledge that the real enemy here is corporations, media, and mass marketing to get us to buy these things. We know this is such a HUGE problem in all aspects of our quality of life but I don't want to deter from the thread topic too much.

We have to get leaders in our government who aren't paid by lobbyists but I'm afraid that isn't happening anytime soon.







That is a big part of the problem alone. Since I feel somewhat powerless in changing that vicious cycle of lobbyists buying our candidates, I really do believe in the power of the individual, especially the pocketbook, since the pocketbook is what gives power to these corporations. We have to limit buying from them and not buy something just because it says USDA organic like you mentioned, but a reputable small family farming business and of course local, if possible. I know a big help to me has been getting rid of my tv. I know longer see tv commercials which make me feel I'm missing something because I don't have a certain car or electronic gadget or gaudy piece of jewelry. I'm not perfect. I like things that aren't necessarily green but I've streamlined my life more so that I buy things because I need them or they feed a real passion of mine, not because I saw it on a commercial or feel like I need it because everyone else has it.

I could go on and on but I think we have to give the consumer back the power and help people realize that if we stop buying from big name businesses, they won't have a business anymore. Now we just need to figure out a way to get the masses of people out there to not support these giants.


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## snozzberry

ITA about corporations that are just in it for profit. I guess I was coming from a place of having someone close to me who is frustrated about the whole green movement spreading so slowly.

Have you all read Affluenza? It's an excellent read about consumerism in our society. It really changed my outlook on consumption. It's a pretty easy read, too. So I've made it my personal mission to recommend it to any and all friends. Everyone I know who's read it has come away with a revised outlook on consumerism.


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## EnviroBecca

Snozzberry wrote:

Quote:

And while it may be frustrating to see people take those baby steps like recycling the bare minimum because you're anxious for them to be where you are today, didn't we all start out small? I know I did. I look back at my lifestyle even a couple years ago, and I'm amazed at how far I've come. But if a couple years ago, someone had expected me to set my thermostat at 82 degrees AND implement "if it's yellow, let it mellow" AND downsize to one car for the family AND stop using shampoo AND buy more produce/bulk and less processed food AND go to the farmer's market religiously, etc, etc...that would have been too much. I would have buckled under the expectations or rebelled or lashed out at whomever was expecting so much of me all at once.

This is a journey for all of us. Some of those around us are just starting on their journeys, and it is our job to help guide them along and encourage them to take that next step.








Very well said!

Pixiewytch wrote:

Quote:

Okay, so I don't want to overgeneralize here but what I'm trying to say here is that corporations from developers to those who make our food, household products, and clothing seem to be repackaging something that isn't green at all to make it look green and does anyone else seem concerned about this?
Yes! I am very concerned that organic is the new low-carb, or whatever, and the general public will be interested only until the idea isn't *NEW!* anymore.









I am feeling very little faith in my fellow Americans today. I posted a while back about the recycling program I ran at a convention for 4 years that convinced the convention organizers to demand that the convention center provide recycling of beverage containers.... Well, after two years of their doing it, this year there were no recycling bins. A couple of my friends spoke with workers emptying trash and told me that they now sort out recycling behind the scenes. I was skeptical and decided to investigate, and today I talked with the facilities management guy, who told me THEY HAD TO STOP RECYCLING BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE THROWING TOO MUCH TRASH IN THE BINS and they didn't have the budget to have their workers spend that much time sorting trash!







Also, the bins were collecting far fewer bottles than they expected based on the number sold in the building!







What is wrong with people?! Those bins were convenient, well-marked, everything you could want!







: I'm writing up the whole story and will post a link, but I can't put it up until the guy reads it and gives me permission to quote him and use his name, or not.


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## beanma

"think globally, buy locally"!

i think buying local is so key. i know i don't come near to doing it half the time, but i'm fairly good on the food front. we've got a great farmer's market and our local co-op carries a lot of local foods, too. i'm just not doing it all the time. still buying that annie's mac-n-cheese, y'know?

anyway, i think if we can raise conciousness about buying locally that might steer folks away from the mega-corps (unless you have a mega corp in your backyard). buying locally appeals to a lot of people, too, from all political stripes. i can totally see a traditional conservative wanting to keep the money local. of course there aren't too many local computer manufacturers or car manufacturers, but we can raise the awareness in regard to food and clothing. i think it supports the community, keeps the money in the community, and reduces transportation costs.

Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, barbara kingsolvers newest, is a great read on the subject of local food.


----------



## bellymama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
"think globally, buy locally"!

i think buying local is so key. i know i don't come near to doing it half the time, but i'm fairly good on the food front. we've got a great farmer's market and our local co-op carries a lot of local foods, too. i'm just not doing it all the time. still buying that annie's mac-n-cheese, y'know?

anyway, i think if we can raise conciousness about buying locally that might steer folks away from the mega-corps (unless you have a mega corp in your backyard). buying locally appeals to a lot of people, too, from all political stripes. i can totally see a traditional conservative wanting to keep the money local. of course there aren't too many local computer manufacturers or car manufacturers, but we can raise the awareness in regard to food and clothing. i think it supports the community, keeps the money in the community, and reduces transportation costs.

Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, barbara kingsolvers newest, is a great read on the subject of local food.

i love barbara kingsolver...love love love her!
Whome....what redwoods are you by? i'm by some too







!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
i love barbara kingsolver...love love love her!
Whome....what redwoods are you by? i'm by some too







!

I'm in the bay area.

Tell me more about Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. I haven't read anything by Barbara Kingsolver yet, but it's on my list for when I don't have a hundred other projects going on... Doesn't she usually write fiction? Is AVM a story, or is it more like facts?


----------



## beanma

Animal Vegetable Miracle is a memoir of her family's year of living on locally grown foods. it's a very easy read, but does have a lot of facts thrown in. well worth reading imo. gotta try to get dh started on it now...

check out the linky. it takes you to her AVM website.


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
"think globally, buy locally"!

Totally. I strive for this, sometimes it works and sometimes I fail miserably. It's pretty easy most of the time to get locally-grown food in my area (and it helps that we garden and keep chickens), but for other purchases, local can be nearly impossible. I agree that voting with our dollars is very, very powerful, maybe especially when it means not spending them.

I also try to keep this saying in mind: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." Not always simple, easy, convenient or fun to implement it IRL, though. Take clothes, for instance. There are so many problems with the garment industry, from the materials used (cotton being the major contributor to pesticide use worldwide, synthetics being made from non-renewable petroleum, astounding amounts of pollution produced during all stages of manufacturing of non-organic fabrics, etc.) to the issues of human rights violations and shipping clothing all over the globe. I used to like to shop at second-hand stores, but now that I have kids I rarely have the patience needed to find anything useful in stores like that. I should make the time to do it periodically without the kids in tow, but I haven't. So too often, I end up caving to convenience and buying new, and usually can't afford the greener options (love the Patagonia web specials clearance, though!). I admire people who can sew with kids in the house, but it drives me crazy.

I know many people have had their eyes opened a little bit to the climate change issue by _An Inconvenient Truth_, but honestly, I thought it came across mostly as an Al Gore campaign commercial. (Yeah, I know he's not running for office currently.) I feel like warning him to not break his arm patting himself on the back. In fact, it smacked a little bit of the thing he got teased so mercilessly about during the campaign, claiming to be one of the founders of the Internet - like he has been the sole voice in the wilderness on the climate issue, outside of a few sequestered academics. If you look a little deeper into the sober science (try this as a starting point http://www.theweathermakers.com/ ), it appears Gore chose the most sensationalistic, the-sky-is-falling factoids to make his point, which IMO ultimately could harm the cause more than help it. I agree with the points he seems to be trying to make, but not with the tactics or the self-congratulation clothed in hand-wringing. However, the slick, Hollywood, sound-byte, not-always-entirely-accurate method of getting ideas across seems to be the "way it's done" nowadays, and I sincerely hope that the people moved by that film will seek to learn more and find out what they can do to effect real, positive change.


----------



## pixiewytch

AJP, I really to a lot of what you say. I too try to buy locally as much as possible but we don't even have a decent farmer's market around here. The best thing going is Wild Oats, our supermarket's local organic line, or the very expensive locally owned health food store. I'm still wrestling with that issue and wishing that one day I could get all of my grocery shopping done at one stop instead of at least two different places.







:

I also struggle with the secondhand thing. I have two little ones and although I used to love thrifting, I don't have the time to go to yard sale after yard sale or multiple thrift stores to find that awesome buy. I'm not in my early twenties and unmarried without kids anymore!! I don't want to at all discourage people from doing this either. I just find that it is hard for me to get out there and do it. It is so much easier to order things from the internet, ebay, or go to Target (I know, I know).

And I couldn't agree with you more about Gore. I like the guy but I found the film incredibly dull which surprised me after all the hype. Maybe it was because I didn't see a lot that I didn't already know or I just got tired of watching him stand in front of charts and graphs the whole time. Great guy I think, but yeah, a little overrated.


----------



## astar326

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
The Mythbusters recently demonstrated that you're better off turning the lights off, of any kind. Of all of the bulbs they tested (incandescent, compact fluoros, LEDs, etc.), the one that had the biggest power surge is still best turned off unless you're going to be back in the room within I think it was 26 seconds.So turn the lights off unless you're literally stepping in and out of the room within a few seconds.

I saw this episode too. Me and DH fight about conservation all the time. He wants his 2 labtops and main computer on all the time while I run around at night and quietly try to shut them all down.








~Angel


----------



## Alcyone

I think this is a very interesting discussion.









I have a hard time because I usually have to pick between one of: fair trade, organic, or local. At the moment I'm looking for bed linens, and as for what I can find locally, it's pretty much between ecru, off-white, ivory, and eggshell. I want to be green without being boring, dammit. I really wanted bamboo, too, but I guess that's just not going to happen.

For food, the situation seems pretty good here. What I can find about the organic "ø" label here sounds good, but the really thorough stuff isn't in English. Also companies LOVE to label stuff that's produced within Denmark, and it's basically impossible for anything in Denmark to be more than about 300mi/500km away, so I consider that local.

For clothing (and bed linens!) it's been really hard to find things. Now, if I want organic bedding or clothes for a BABY, I can find about 10,000 options. Don't get me wrong... I think it's great to get good organic stuff for your baby, but why not mama too?

The worst has to be pet care, though. I can't find a single dang brand or type of cat food that doesn't have corn all over the place, and I don't think non-clay litter exists here. It's driving me crazy! I hate hate hate hate clay litter.







I can probably learn to make food for my cats, but how do I make litter? I've heard of some people using chicken feed as cat litter, but it's not too easy to come by feed stores in the Copenhagen area.


----------



## astar326

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
"think globally, buy locally"! i think buying local is so key. i know i don't come near to doing it half the time, but i'm fairly good on the food front. we've got a great farmer's market and our local co-op carries a lot of local foods, too. i'm just not doing it all the time.

I agree. I live in a small town with many farmer's markets. I also try to support local restaurants that also buy local produce. My sister told me about a 100 mile diet where people only purchase items near their communities. I tend to buy locally in the warmer months, but struggle in the cold months. It's also discouraging to find some of my local farmer's market are buying goods from afar to help them offset the costs of running their farms. It pains me that people don't chose local first and foremost when the result means that their local farmers are struggling.







: sorry about my rambling.
On a brighter note







, a few weeks ago DH and I attended Great Green America Fest at Pennsylvania Renaissance Faire where we learned a lot from the many presentations. Our current project is to find an old diesel and convert it to run on waste veg oil!







I'll keep you posted on how this turns out. Anyone here driving on WVO? I saw info here on biodiesel (my 2nd passion).
~Angel


----------



## purplepixiewing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
The worst has to be pet care, though. I can't find a single dang brand or type of cat food that doesn't have corn all over the place, and I don't think non-clay litter exists here. It's driving me crazy! I hate hate hate hate clay litter.







I can probably learn to make food for my cats, but how do I make litter? I've heard of some people using chicken feed as cat litter, but it's not too easy to come by feed stores in the Copenhagen area.

I saw posted on another board that someone is using organic oatmeal for cat litter. Maybe that would work for you, they said it is very absorbent. I don't know how available organic oatmeal is there, but maybe conventional oatmeal would be easy to get in bulk.


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## lisaannesm

subscribing...


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## Scrubsjm

I just wanted to say that by recycling everything we possibly can and composting everything compostable, our family of 4 has successfully reduced our amount of trash from 2 full curb cans to one kitchen bag a week. How great is that! Also by turning our shower off (we have an adjustable shower head) while soaping up we have dropped our water bill a noticeable amount. Now we really only have the shower running for a minute or two while we are in there. It's nice to see some tangible results from the practices we are implementing!


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiewytch* 
AJP, I really to a lot of what you say. I too try to buy locally as much as possible but we don't even have a decent farmer's market around here. The best thing going is Wild Oats, our supermarket's local organic line, or the very expensive locally owned health food store. I'm still wrestling with that issue and wishing that one day I could get all of my grocery shopping done at one stop instead of at least two different places.







:

Have you looked into the buying club route?
Associated Buyers and United Natural Foods are two distributors who deliver to buying clubs in my area, charging close-to-wholesale prices.
My friends and I put together an order once a month, and UNFI delivers the food to my house. We split it up as planned... and I haven't been to a commercial grocery store in months!








Though I am lucky to have great farms and farmer's markets nearby (in summer, anyway) and a food coop that helps fill in the gaps.








-------------------------
For kitty litter:
How about sawdust?
It tweaks me out to think of buying food for my cat to pee on.
Feline Pine is a brand of kitty litter that's just pine sawdust pressed into neat little pellets- why not just find a source for unprocessed sawdust?
-------------------------
Has anyone seen the Future of Food?

I hadn't heard the whole story about corporations gaining the legal option to _patent life_







: , or the details about how Monsanto, et al, managed to sue farmers who unwillingly have some GMO plants mixed in with their crops.







Oh, and the suicide gene? Which could cross-contaminate everything else?







RoundUp-ready crops?







Et cetera.

I've always leaned toward organic, local, GMO-free food, but now I know more about why we should keep at it. Diligently.


----------



## pixiewytch

Ramlita, can you give me more info on the united natural foods? I went to their website but I don't see anything about home delivery, if they deliver to my area, what the minimum purchase is and so forth? I'm really interested though.


----------



## ramlita

What a weird website! You're right, it's hard to find the Buying Club part.

Here it is-
This page covers some basics, including a map of their area, loosely described as the East and the Midwest.

http://www.unitedbuyingclubs.com/How_To_Buy.htm

The easiest thing is to find one that already exists- though it would have to be pretty close to be worth it.

It's been fun getting people together to talk about food!
You never know who has a crock of sauerkraut on the counter, who's making cheese from raw local milk, or who knows how to marinate tempeh to make it palatable







until you ask sometimes! I've been bonding with new friends about common interests like Kefir and grinding grains and









I sort of took over this buying club from my mom and her friends- once all of their kids moved out of their houses, their food needs plummeted and it became harder to put together an order.
I've recruited friends who have then recruited coworkers, neighbors see the truck and wander over, much of our playgroup regulars order stuff... friends with kids tend to be interested, and it becomes very easy to make the minimum.

I love to buy local, but I also







whole organic coconut milk, organic applesauce out of season







:, and affordably priced homeopathics and supplements.


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
For kitty litter:
How about sawdust?
It tweaks me out to think of buying food for my cat to pee on.
Feline Pine is a brand of kitty litter that's just pine sawdust pressed into neat little pellets- why not just find a source for unprocessed sawdust?

I was poking around online to try to figure out where one would buy sawdust in Copenhagen. I found one place which sells an unspecified amount of sawdust for about $1000. I'm pretty sure I'd need a bigger condo and a lot more cats to make that useful.







However, I stumbled upon another place that in addition to selling 60 lb. bags of sawdust for an unspecified price, makes a sawdust kitty litter! It's called Miljø-Strø and it sounds pretty much exactly like Feline Pine, which I used in the US for a long time. Unfortunately when I clicked the link to order online, it wanted me to download an Excel spreadsheet.







I wrote them an email saying I don't have Excel, I'm not going to buy Excel (or any other spreadsheet program, as I have no use for it), but I'd still like to buy the product if they'd like to provide some other means. I hope they respond! I don't really mind buying oatmeal but I don't think it would be that cheap.


----------



## majikfaerie

I just got this forward about www.blackle.com its a custom Google search engine, that has a black background.
I dont know if anyone else posted about it already, but a quick search didnt turn anything up...
I looked up its entry in Wikipedia and it seems that it's a search that is more-or-less the same as Google (though not run by Google, it uses their search engine).
It saves power only on the CRT monitor screens (not the LCD screens), and though the amount saved for an individual would be negligible, the site claims that over the millions of people using Google every day, the power reduction adds up.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
Unfortunately when I clicked the link to order online, it wanted me to download an Excel spreadsheet.







I wrote them an email saying I don't have Excel, I'm not going to buy Excel (or any other spreadsheet program, as I have no use for it), but I'd still like to buy the product if they'd like to provide some other means. I hope they respond! I don't really mind buying oatmeal but I don't think it would be that cheap.

Have you seen google docs? It doesn't have all the functionality of excel, but it should be good for viewing a basic spreadsheet without having to download or buy anything. (Also works for Word, btw)


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Have you seen google docs? It doesn't have all the functionality of excel, but it should be good for viewing a basic spreadsheet without having to download or buy anything. (Also works for Word, btw)

Actually I would have to download something, as it doesn't work with either of the browsers I use. I'm pretty anti-download-a-new-browser-for-one-site, but it's ok because the guy answered my email and it's all sorted.


----------



## Theloose

glad it's all sorted out! sorry to assume it would work with your browser, i thought the had it working with most browsers now.

And now back on topic: what's the greenest way to get rid of the two big refillable plastic wipes containers we have? I finally got dh on board with 100% cloth wipes, even for future babies, yay! recycle? freecycle? repurpose? (to what??)


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
glad it's all sorted out! sorry to assume it would work with your browser, i thought the had it working with most browsers now.

And now back on topic: what's the greenest way to get rid of the two big refillable plastic wipes containers we have? I finally got dh on board with 100% cloth wipes, even for future babies, yay! recycle? freecycle? repurpose? (to what??)

We use ours for little toy storage like cars or anything with small pieces. You could even redecorate the containers!


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
Has anyone seen the Future of Food?

I hadn't heard the whole story about corporations gaining the legal option to _patent life_







: , or the details about how Monsanto, et al, managed to sue farmers who unwillingly have some GMO plants mixed in with their crops.







Oh, and the suicide gene? Which could cross-contaminate everything else?







RoundUp-ready crops?







Et cetera.

I've always leaned toward organic, local, GMO-free food, but now I know more about why we should keep at it. Diligently.

yup. i think you can watch it on youtube, for those who haven't seen it.


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## gratefulbambina

I freecycle all my #5 containers to a homeschool group here locally. I save them and once a month or so she comes and gets them from me. If that doesn't work also try your local elementary schools, they can use them for storing things


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## beanma

hey y'all,

just saw this linky on a biodiesel list i'm on and thought i would pass it along -- a diesel honda that gets almost 63mpg -- http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html
.

would be sweet to put biodiesel in that baby!


----------



## eco_mama

does anyone know of a glass, stainless steel, etc. gallon sized container that i could use to replace the plastic one we use now for filling up our water unit. and also one for road trips to have in the car.


----------



## beanma

you can always buy a gallon of apple juice in a glass bottle and re-use that. we have huge bottles of juice at our co-op.

wonder if sigg or kleen kanteen makes one?


----------



## delfuego

I was going to say apple juice too. I love those bottles. I use them to store water or to make juice in.


----------



## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
just saw this linky on a biodiesel list i'm on and thought i would pass it along -- a diesel honda that gets almost 63mpg -- http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html

see!!! i keep telling dp that i'm not impressed w/ the american version of the smart car that only gets like 38 mpg. he looks at me like i'm crazy... but i know they can do better... this proves it!

thanks beanma!


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
hey y'all,

just saw this linky on a biodiesel list i'm on and thought i would pass it along -- a diesel honda that gets almost 63mpg -- http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html
.

would be sweet to put biodiesel in that baby!

Better yet...run it on WVO!

My husband is going to freak when I show him this link! He loves Honda's and that really is just too good to be true. They are very smart to join in the diesel club.


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
you can always buy a gallon of apple juice in a glass bottle and re-use that. we have huge bottles of juice at our co-op.

wonder if sigg or kleen kanteen makes one?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
I was going to say apple juice too. I love those bottles. I use them to store water or to make juice in.

We make our own juice but I may have to buy some if I can find it in a glass bottle. Thanks for the idea. I can't wait to scout some out.


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
hey y'all,

just saw this linky on a biodiesel list i'm on and thought i would pass it along -- a diesel honda that gets almost 63mpg -- http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html
.

would be sweet to put biodiesel in that baby!

sweet!


----------



## AJP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
would be sweet to put biodiesel in that baby!

Kewl. I found a few references that they also plan to come out with a V6 diesel for their minivan, SUV and truck. I hope they do. I don't like sedans, prefer to have more room and 4WD (not a city dweller, I do actually use the 4WD), and a diesel Pilot would be dreamy if the mileage is good and it has decent towing capacity. Honda has plenty of experience with diesel engines, both in generators and in automobiles in other countries.


----------



## Theloose

Did anyone hear about the new automotive X PRIZE?
auto.xprize.com
It's a multi-million dollar prize plus publicity for cars that get 100MPGe or better.
I'm not going to say much more cause I'm working with one of the contestants, but regardless, I think it's an awesome contest! DEFINITELY a giant leap in the right direction!


----------



## tankgirl73

Whew! I made it through all 26 pages and now feel I can post honestly!

The last couple days I've just been finding SO many tribes here. Can I say right here right now that MDC really, really, really rocks?









So we try to live as green as we can. These are our obstacles and stumbling blocks: We live in a rented townhouse in a condo corporation. We can't afford to move anywhere else. We're stuck with their draconian rules, which include no outdoor laundry *at all*. Our postage stamp backyard doesn't have much room for a garden, and when I tried to grow a few veggies a couple years ago, the landscape workers came along and pulled out all my weeds and *all my veggie plants*!!

And since we rent, we can't do anything like rejigger the sinks to catch waste water or install solar panels. We've got crappy carpets throughout the house, the appliances are old and inefficient, the windows are poorly insulated.

In the winter, the house is FREEZING. The heaters are electric baseboard. The first winter we lived here, we used as much heat as we needed. Then we got the bill. Now we live a very chilly season, heating only when absolutely necessary.

But, we do what we can. DH says "fight the battles you can". As much as all this sucks, it's not worth stressing too much right now since there really is nothing we can do about it at this point in time.

What we do to stay as green as we can: When we needed disposable diapers, we used Seventh Generation. We moved to cloth as much as possible as soon as practical. And we started practicing EC, so that over time we also used much less cloth. She's now just in trainer undies and regular (baby-sized) panties that go in the regular laundry.

We used only cloth wipes, and of course haven't needed those much at all for months.

I use cloth mama pads, Lunapads. LOVE them. I must admit, I'd never heard of using cloth for toilet paper. Thinking about it, I guess it's not much different than what we do with our babies' bums... But I'm curious how it actually works on a practical level?

We use a LOT of kleenex (DH is an allergic type) so we're getting some organic cotton handkerchiefs to try.

We're fortunate that our municipality has both curbside recycling and compost pickup. We can compost kleenex, meats and fats, dryer lint, many things that wouldn't normally go in a backyard compost. And the list of accepted recyclables is huge. We have only one garbage bag a week, and much of that is kitty litter -- one of our cats refuses to use the flushable types, though we're trying again with a pine one, see what she thinks this time.

The city does require that we use garbage bags, but we do get the 'green' recycled ones, at least.

Our local supermarket chain sells totebags that are made of recycled plastic cloth. They're just 99c, they're huge, they give you 3c off your bill each time you use one, and when they wear out you can bring them back to be re-recycled!

We have all lights in the house compact fluorescent. We use rechargeable batteries wherever possible. We have not installed the air conditioners for the last 2 summers and have survived instead with fans. When possible, I use small appliances like an indoor grill or the slowcooker instead of the oven.

DD's sippy cup is a .3L Sigg bottle. She loves it.

Most of DD's and DS's clothes are hand-me-downs or freecycle finds.

We belong to an organic CSA. We get organic pasture-raised local beef, a friend and I split a side every so often.

Now I have a question I hope you wise green folks can help me with. Since joining the CSA this year, we're getting tons more fresh produce than I'm used to dealing with. I am NOT a veggie-lover. I'm enjoying the challenge of finding stuff to do with these, and whatever I still don't like, DH gladly eats up.

My biggest challenge, though, is storing the stuff. Especially the HUGE heads of lettuce, big bunches of chard, beets with all the leaves... all the green stuff.

I've seen mention of using mesh bags as produce bags. Does this work for storage too, or are you just talking about when getting them from the store? I've been using big baggies, if I keep them loose they just wilt really quickly, but often the lettuce are still just too big for the baggies.

We do use plastic storage containers, but we don't heat in them. I *love* the Lock&Lock containers, they're airtight and stack beautifully, all my flours and spices are kept fresh and grain-moth-free in them. I had tried metal tins and stuff, but we had a major grain moth infestation and nothing was air-tight enough.

But, I don't think I want fresh produce kept in an air-tight container. Right?

Well I've got about a dozen tabs open to pages linked off this thread, I'm off to check them all out!

(Oh, we would LOVE to live in an eco-village but there just aren't any around here, or where we want to move back home to).


----------



## Ianthe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eco_mama* 
does anyone know of a glass, stainless steel, etc. gallon sized container that i could use to replace the plastic one we use now for filling up our water unit. and also one for road trips to have in the car.

Apple Juice and cheap wine bottles in gallon jugs (I don't drink that cheap crap, but DH's old roommate did so we saved the jugs)


----------



## snozzberry

Welcome, tankgirl73!


----------



## Aguazul

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
Unfortunately when I clicked the link to order online, it wanted me to download an Excel spreadsheet.







I wrote them an email saying I don't have Excel, I'm not going to buy Excel (or any other spreadsheet program, as I have no use for it), but I'd still like to buy the product if they'd like to provide some other means. I hope they respond! I don't really mind buying oatmeal but I don't think it would be that cheap.

Try Open Office. It is a word processor, spreadsheet program, and more. And it is completely free. I do have Excel, but on the kids' computer, they use Open Office and it works great. It is compatible with Excel so you can send your spreadsheet to Excel users and they can open it fine. And its free!


----------



## gratefulbambina

Google offers free excel type program also


----------



## RaRa7

I wasn't really sure where to post and since I feel comfortable here and think you all will have some input,
I just bought an allergy pillow protector and realize it's made of polypropylene and polyethylene.
Should we be sleeping on this stuff?


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina* 
Google offers free excel type program also

different from what whoMe suggested?


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
I wasn't really sure where to post and since I feel comfortable here and think you all will have some input,
I just bought an allergy pillow protector and realize it's made of polypropylene and polyethylene.
Should we be sleeping on this stuff?

It is my understanding that polypropylene and polyethlene aren't so bad as plastics go, but personally I'd rather spend my money on natural products. Nature has proven time and again it's better for you than synthetics.









If dust mites are what you're allergic to, you just need something with a high enough threadcount that the little buggers can't get into the pillow so easily. If you have a natural down pillow, they make the threadcount high to keep the feathers in, and it also works well for keeping creepies out. If your pillow is stuffed with synthetics, you probably want a high threadcount protector on it, because the threadcount on the pillow itself is likely much lower.


----------



## Theloose

There are so many amazing, good greening suggestions here, you've all inspired me to see how green I can get. I just posted a thread in TAO about a website/blog I started to show the process, and perhaps get some help and spur some discussion. Since this thread is a major part of the inspiration, I thought I'd post about it here, too.

Happy greenifying!


----------



## Alcyone

That sounds fun, whoMe!







Good luck with your progress.
Does your blog have an RSS or Atom feed? I couldn't find a link for one.


----------



## Theloose

yeeeesss (RSS), and I checked, it's enabled... I'll go try to figure out how to post a link for it... added!


----------



## Zoo Loo Naturals

Green makes me happy.







:


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
yeeeesss (RSS), and I checked, it's enabled... I'll go try to figure out how to post a link for it... added!

Subscribed.


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## sublimemommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zen-ozz* 
I am struggling with CF Lights! I am switching all of our lights over to the CF, but I have yet to find a light that satisfies my need for warm light. I am willing to switch even if I don't find a light I love, but I wanted to hear what others have found and if anyone has a light they feel is comparable in quality to the incandescent. I'm really looking forward to hearing what others have discovered!

On another note, I have been a CSA member for 2 years (entering my third) and I am so looking forward to this year's bounty!I can't wait to get that first head fo bok choy or lettuce or the first carrots! Yeah!

Now . . . if only I could find a way to ride my 6 month old on my bike! Why do I have to wait till he's a year? I so want to ride with him!!!

K

some of the newer trailers you can strap an infant carseat in to


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## purplepixiewing

O.K. green mamas I need help! We just moved to a house out in the country and we have so many of the little sugar ants here they are driving me nuts.







: I've been trying to keep all the crumbs up and drying any water spots but they just keep coming. I've used a natural peppermint oil spray on them and it works well, but I really need something that will help stop them at the source. Is there anything that's not totally toxic that will help get rid of this problem?

There are also more flies out here than I think I've ever seen in my life and they all seem to hang out on my front porch just waiting for the door to open. Anyone know of a safe way to discourage them from hanging around my door so much?

Thanks for any ideas.


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## beanma

purplepixiewing -- for the ants, boric acid is not too toxic and can be mixed with sugar and a bit of water to form a ant killing bait. they'll be attracted to it, but then they'll take it back to the colony and die. i've recently read a post somewhere on MDC that advocated giving them dry corn meal. said it swelled up in their stomachs and they died. i've never tried that. i spray mine with a little dr bronner's peppermint soap and it does kill the ones it hits, but doesn't do a thing for the rest of the colony.

for the flies, this one is a little weird, but one of the restaurants in town has these plastic bags filled with water that they hang from the awning covering their outdoor seating area. apparently the theory is that the flies are confused by the reflection and distortion of the water in the bags and go elsewhere. i think it might help and it's certainly fairly non-toxic (except for the plastic bags). you could always try fly-paper, too, but i think that's kinda gross if you have to look at it. i wonder if there's any plant like peppermint that would repell them?

hth

check out this link for fly solutions -- http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf851815.tip.html


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## talia rose

The thing you really have to watch for are the toxic flame retardents which are built into these fibers in anything to do with sleeping. Basically you will be sleeping on a petroleum based plastic product with chemical flame retardents.
Much better to go with natural products. Down traps moisture and dustmites love it. A down pillow that is 5 years old is 60% dust mites carcasses and poop. Your best bets are organic cotton outer with an organic or "Pure Grow" wool" or natural latex pillows. Natural latex (make sure you get one with no synthetics - justpure latex) is dust mite resistant as well as mold and mildew resistant. Very comfy too.....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
It is my understanding that polypropylene and polyethlene aren't so bad as plastics go, but personally I'd rather spend my money on natural products. Nature has proven time and again it's better for you than synthetics.









If dust mites are what you're allergic to, you just need something with a high enough threadcount that the little buggers can't get into the pillow so easily. If you have a natural down pillow, they make the threadcount high to keep the feathers in, and it also works well for keeping creepies out. If your pillow is stuffed with synthetics, you probably want a high threadcount protector on it, because the threadcount on the pillow itself is likely much lower.


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## talia rose

We have been using those natural citrus oil sprays meant for air freshening just like raid, spray it on the ants and it kills them dead. this is a quick fix to ants swarming but doesn't really solve the long term. someone told us put out corn grits and they eat them and it puffs up and kills them. We are trying that next......

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplepixiewing* 
O.K. green mamas I need help! We just moved to a house out in the country and we have so many of the little sugar ants here they are driving me nuts.







: I've been trying to keep all the crumbs up and drying any water spots but they just keep coming. I've used a natural peppermint oil spray on them and it works well, but I really need something that will help stop them at the source. Is there anything that's not totally toxic that will help get rid of this problem?

There are also more flies out here than I think I've ever seen in my life and they all seem to hang out on my front porch just waiting for the door to open. Anyone know of a safe way to discourage them from hanging around my door so much?

Thanks for any ideas.


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talia rose* 
Down traps moisture and dustmites love it. A down pillow that is 5 years old is 60% dust mites carcasses and poop.

Do you have a source for this? It is contradictory to everything I had read.


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## talia rose

it is pretty common knowledge in my business (non-toxic/eco home and building products.) the statistic i read on the pillows was an article i read based on a study that was done a few years ago. Here are a few sites that mention the relationship with down and dustmites.....
http://lungdiseases.about.com/od/gen...omirritant.htm

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1127/

http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules...x?articleId=36

I should add that I personally don't believe going synthetic is a healthy choice as all synthetic pillows are petroleum based and treated with chemical flame retardents. Also, wool that has been cleaned with chemicals will attract dustmites, as all the lanolin has been removed. But wool that is Organic or Pure Grow has been cleaned with either hot water or a natural citrus type cleaner and therefore some lanolin remains, which helps to repel dustmites. The most dustmite resistant pillow choice in the natural world is definitely latex, according to another study, done on bedding materials and dustmites.

QUOTE=Alcyone;8872232]Do you have a source for this? It is contradictory to everything I had read.[/QUOTE]


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## Alcyone

I would be interested to see that article. The links there don't particularly interest me much, as you can find a link to support just about anything online. I could not find a comparison between down and latex, but between synthetic and feather I found one study showing fewer dust mites in the feather and one showing fewer pet allergens in the feather. If a down pillow truly becomes 60% mite carcass and poo, I shudder to think what a synthetic one would be, as these studies find 10 times more allergen in synthetic versus feather!


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## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
I would be interested to see that article. The links there don't particularly interest me much, as you can find a link to support just about anything online. I could not find a comparison between down and latex, but between synthetic and feather I found one study showing fewer dust mites in the feather and one showing fewer pet allergens in the feather. If a down pillow truly becomes 60% mite carcass and poo, I shudder to think what a synthetic one would be, as these studies find 10 times more allergen in synthetic versus feather!

Well, what about wool pillows? We have one of these:

http://www.lifekind.com/catalog/prod...products_id/35


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## sofysmommy

subbing


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## purplepixiewing

Thanks for the great pest control ideas. I think I'll try the corn meal and see if that helps if not I'll do the boric acid bait idea.

I'll definitely try the water in bags for the flies, I think I read that another place too now that I think of it. I hope it works they're driving me nuts. I do notice that keeping some fans on in the house seems to help keep them out of that particular area. Thanks for the link beanma, I'm going to go check that out.


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## talia rose

the article was in a magazine about a year ago. i did not save it. sorry. i have not seen, nor sought out the comparisons to synthetics. it is only the down i have researched, as so many of my customers have dustmite allergies.....

new mama - wool (that is pure grow or organic, like lifekind sells) is a good option. dustmites do not like the lanolin......

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
I would be interested to see that article. The links there don't particularly interest me much, as you can find a link to support just about anything online. I could not find a comparison between down and latex, but between synthetic and feather I found one study showing fewer dust mites in the feather and one showing fewer pet allergens in the feather. If a down pillow truly becomes 60% mite carcass and poo, I shudder to think what a synthetic one would be, as these studies find 10 times more allergen in synthetic versus feather!


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## AJP

I though some of you might want to check out the interesting interviews here: http://www.peakmoment.tv , click on 'conversations' to view or listen to past episodes. Tons of stuff about energy alternatives, economic localization, etc. - their motto is "Community Responses for a Changing Energy Future".


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## talia rose

if anyone is looking for incentive to make more change in your lives - check out the movie "crude impact".......

realizing how we rape the world for oil makes me glad i drive biodeisel and am cutting back on as many petroleum based products as possible. i feel like every day i am discovering news ways to change , no matter how small they may seem....


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## askew

Hey Green Mamas- I am new to this thread and have a question to anyone...

I am looking to get a new mattress for DS and want to know if anyone has either a natural latex or an organic cotton innerspring mattress. Which do you recommend and where did you get yours? (if online and not some local shop)

Thanks so much!


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## snozzberry

I have a natural latex mattress, and I *love* it!!!!







It's a Natura brand mattress, but I can't remember the style. I have never slept better at home in my life.

I got mine at a local shop, though.


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## eloise24

I've been reading along and lurking- trying to figure out what changes we can make in our lives. I have to share though . . . I FINALLY remembered to take my re-useable bags to Target today and I actually used them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe how proud I am of myself,







yipppeeee!


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## LucyRev

Does anyone know anything about replacing windows? My house was built in 1930, and has all single pane wood windows. Some of them have old wavy glass that I really like, but they are super drafty and some are painted shut. I think we'll put storm windows over a couple, but for the ones that need replacing, what is the best thing to use? Vinyl is cheezy and toxic, fiberglass seems like it will last forever but also expensive. Wood windows are high maintenance, which knowing my DH will mean they will be ruined after 5 yrs or whatever because he is not handy, nor has much free time. I love the look and feel of wood windows though. Are the ones that are permeated with weather proofing chemicals going to offgas nasty stuff?

The window business is so like used cars, all the sales people seem smarmy.


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## Bex80

Subbing!


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## MamaRabbit

I just re-started up a blog about green living. Mostly for the people IRL I know who know nothing about green living but love to read my blogs. I'll be using some ideas from here.... so many resources at MDC!

I'm thinking of incorporating green living with how it saves money as well, just to appeal to them and get them thinking in the right direction.


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LucyRev* 
Does anyone know anything about replacing windows?

I wish I knew the answers to your questions, because I'd like to replace our windows as well, though it's not the highest priority at the moment. In the book _Organic Housekeeping_, the author mentions self-cleaning glass as being nontoxic and safe as well as time-saving. As we're in a third-story condo, I took great interest in this and at least one of the brands is available in Denmark, so we're looking into it. I know it doesn't help with the fiberglass/wood question, but I just thought I'd pass on the links from that book in case it would help you.
Pilkington Activ
PPG Industries
AFG Industries, Inc.


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## delfuego

I also have been wondering about the window question. Aluminum is recyclable though not very energy efficient. I think there is one residential brand that sells aluminum windows and doors but I don't remember who it is.

If you can figure out how to do insulated aluminum frames, that would probably be a good option.

Overall, I believe that just replacing your windows should save you enough energy that it is worth it no matter what type you use.

As far as the glass goes. Get double glazed for the insulation value. Use low-e glass on any East or West windows you have and possibly on the South as well if you don't have a sufficient overhang to shade your South windows in the Summer. If you do have a good overhang on the South then you wouldn't want to use low-e as it would prevent solar gain in the Winter.


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## talia rose

another thing we have done during the summers is cook most of our food in our solar oven! this has been awesome! never burns, heats your kitchen, or uses any fuel but the sun.

also, check out this video put out by the climate action network. at first i thought it was kind of silly but it has stuck with me and been incentive to cut my energy use.
http://www.climateprotect.org/ah12


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## flowers

Have we already talked about flooring?

We are redoing the apartment in the house we just bought and already used clay paints (they came out AWESOME!







) and are now trying to figure out flooring.

We were going to go bamboo but treehugger.com questions if it is really the "green" choice. Cork is out b/c after we live there we will be renting it out and don't want it to get wrecked. Has anyone ever used marmoleum? We think it might be a good option for the bathroom at least.


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## delfuego

marmoleum is great! feels so good to walk on, looks great, is very durable... i love the stuff.

i don't know why bamboo wouldn't be considered sustainable. what did treehugger say about it? there is thing called strand woven bamboo that uses all the waste pulp from regular bamboo floor manufacturing. they bind it with a nontoxic glue, and it's very hard and also looks great.

has anyone here lived w/ cork floors? everyone who hasn't is always worried about their durability but everyone i know who has them says they hold up great. we're putting cork floors in my mom's house so i guess i'll find out soon.


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## Cajunmomma

We got marmoleum about 2 years ago and love it!!! It's not cold, like ceramic tile would be, but is warm and great to walk on. It's easy to keep clean and we haven't had any problems at all with it.

Most of the rest of my floors (in a 50 year old house) are hard wood or tile (the bathrooms). If I could, I think I'd have wood everywhere. I like the tile, but I'm averse to slipping and it's so cold in the winters.


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## Alcyone

We've put in our order for Marmoleum for our living room, and it was set to arrive on Friday, but they were out of stock of one of our colors. Now we're supposed to get it _this_ Friday. It's supposed to sit for a few days to get adjusted to non-warehouse temperatures before we lay it down, so it will probably get done weekend after next.

I'm glad to see some good reviews of it from you guys.







We thought about bamboo but Marmoleum was such an obvious choice for us because we could have so much fun with the colors. You should have seen the look on MIL's face when she asked, "is it one color, or two?" and I said, "seven."


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## treefolk

back to mattresses..... would a natural latex topper improve the dustmite situation? We are not highly allergic people, but my dd has more sensitive skin than the rest of us. A latex mattress is just not in the budget for us right now.

I was also wondering if any of you vaccuum your mattresses and if this helps?

on a side note: We are moving tomorrow! we are coming out of our cabin in the woods







BUT moving into a lovely town that is 1/2 a block away from our work and 1 full block from the kids school. NO MORE DRIVING everyday.
I know there is a debate over living rural or living urban and it's impact. For us the scale weighs greatly on the urban side ONLY because of our situation. We lived deep in the woods, we would have had to put a lot into the land to make a place to garden and support more animals and done some solar work. My dh works long long hours at our cafe and I work there while the kids are in school. We never saw him, so living so close not only eliminates the use of driving to work/school, but allows dh some breaks at home, or for the kids to pop by to say hello. He even will be able to come home for bedtime now, then go back and finish up at the cafe!
AND we are moving to a 170 year old home, that has had all the fireplaces relined and heats with wood. Lots of potential, we are 1 block away from a large river with lots of trails, kayaking, etc. ANd my kids will actually learn how to ride bikes (they are very excited about that)
All that's left now is for me to get used to being around people. I had my last cup of coffee out on the porch in my underwear this morning!!!


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## delfuego

:

we're having the same happy/sad feelings about our upcoming move. we're moving from the canyon (pretty rural, clean, quiet) down into the city next month. we moved up the canyon to get out of the dirty city air when ds started getting chemical induced asthma. we've loved it, it's so pretty and quiet and peaceful. but on the flip side, it's been costing us a fortune in fuel and since it's at least 10 degrees colder than in the valley, the winter is hell on our diesels + makes it harder to run them on biodiesel all winter.

we're moving to a *very* small house (about 550 s.f.) on a piece of land where we plan to build our VERY FIRST SHIPPING CONTAINER HOUSE!!! Can you tell I'm excited about that part? The land is across the street from the biggest park in the city, which is great, and walking/biking distance from light rail and all the ammenities we need/use. I can bike ds to the sitter and to work which I'm also really excited about.

I am happy to be moving, I miss having our own place, we've been renting half a house. And, obviously it's a big step forward to be building our own alternative construction sustainable home. I'm just worried about the asthma this winter. We're going to get lots of houseplants! I'm thinking about an air filter too... what do y'all think?


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## CrunchyParent

They just put marmoleum on the floor in DD's classroom in school (they just renovated the classroom to make it as green as possible). It sounds amazing but also spendy I was told. We need to re-do the flooring on our first floor, or at least in the kitchen but we also hope to move in a year or so. Is it worth the investment, or should I save the eco-overhaul for whenever we move to our next home?


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## LucyRev

I have also heard Marmoleum is really spendy and not just any DIYer can install it I guess. There is a place near me that sells remnant peices for much cheaper and you can save quite a bit by putting something together with those.

From what I've read about bamboo, it's the way it is made, glued and finished that makes it not such a green choice. I think you would need to research the different bamboo flooring companies to find out how they do things.

Treefolk, your move sounds very exciting! I would love to have my morning coffee on the porch in my undies







I suppose I could do it, but I'd get some very strange looks from the neighbors.

Alcyone, i would love to see a picture of your new floor with 7 colors! How fun.


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## flowers

For some reason I just can't picture marmoleum in the living room/bedroom. I don't know why?

Treehugger mentions the fact that bamboo is getting so popular that now they are deforesting and planting it as a mono-crop and there are no controls over sustainability practices. Also, there are no regulations on fair trade or labor practices and most of the bamboo is being shipped from China so it is not by any means local. From what they said all bamboo has formaldehyde in it, although at considerably lowers levels than traditional floor to floor carpeting.

New info through me off....though they did give the name of a company Teragren that has a good reputation as far as searching for fair trade and sustainable resources of bamboo.


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## flowers

Aaackkk! We were just looking at the Teragren bamboo and it goes for $6-8 a square foot! Yikes...that is a lot.....we saw some local reclaimed hardwood for $4-5.

Dang we were all ready to go and now can't make up our mind!


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## Alcyone

We paid 399 kroner per square meter of Marmoleum. According to Google, that is US$6.78 per square foot. We have 25% VAT so that would be about US$5.42 per square foot, before taxes. I'm sure prices vary depending on where you are, but we were pretty happy with the price. Not cheap, by any means, but worth it for our crazy seven-color living room floor.









Forbo's website has a floor planner which we used to plan out our floor with a Tetris-based pattern. (Yes, we're geeks.) You can see our design from that floor planner here.


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## Greenmama13

"I use cloth mama pads, Lunapads. LOVE them. I must admit, I'd never heard of using cloth for toilet paper. Thinking about it, I guess it's not much different than what we do with our babies' bums... But I'm curious how it actually works on a practical level?"

Tankgirl - I got this idea from MDC too. I bought a trashcan with a swinging lid. I just use the wipes and put them into the container. When the can is full I wash them on hot with an extra rinse. Same procedure I use for our cloth diapers, just a different container. If something was extra messy you could rinse it first. Some people soak them just like some people soak their diapers, but I don't. Green aspects aside, I actually prefer this to real TP now.

"DD's sippy cup is a .3L Sigg bottle. She loves it."

I'm curious about this. What is it? Where did you get it? Why is it green?

Thanks!


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## tankgirl73

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama13* 
"DD's sippy cup is a .3L Sigg bottle. She loves it."

I'm curious about this. What is it? Where did you get it? Why is it green?


Sigg bottles are 'green' because they're metal, not plastic. Most of the common reusable waterbottles use that nasty plastic with the BPA that's recently been in the news for leaching and causing ill health.

The Sigg bottles come in lots of sizes and cool patterns, and different tops (screw tops, sport tops, etc)... the tops are plastic, but not that particular plastic at least.

We all have Sigg bottles now, I have a blue 1L one, DS has a red 750ml sport bottle, and DD has her 300ml 'baby' bottle, pink with kitties. We have one insulating pouch which DS and I share, I'll probably get another one soon heh...

They're not cheap, but they're high quality and they last. You can use them for hot or cold drinks -they're not a thermos, you need an insulating pouch if you want things to STAY hot or cold, but the bottle itself won't be harmed by hot drinks, cold drinks, or even fizzy drinks -- unlike most plastic bottles.

Most health food stores will carry them, that's where I got mine and DS's. There are lots of places online too, I got DD's through theecstore.com. There's a similar bottle out there too, the Kleen Kanteen. I haven't used it, simply because our local store stocked the Sigg so that's what I tried.


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## flowers

So I am about to purchase some cloth mamapads for pp....(I am 39 weeks!) since all my old ones have bitten the dust. What are everyone's favorites? Whose works the best....most comfy.....decent price.....good wahm to support!


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## tankgirl73

I already mentioned it, but I looooove Lunapads. I think they're the easiest since there's no folding or 'pockets', you just change the liner (which is on the top, not in the middle) and don't have to change the base every single time, so you need fewer bases. In other words, you get lots of liners rather than lots of complete pads. I think they're more economical that way.

They're all WAHM-made, it's a small company now of a few women. You can get them in fancy designs or in organic cotton. They are soooooooo soft and comfy. Lots of different sizes for different needs. Great service!

I recently turned my SIL on to them. She's a convert too now!

www.lunapads.com


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## flowers

I just ordered their Heavy Flow kit that is specifically for post-partuum! Wooo-hooo! Let the party begin!


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## Alcyone

We use cloth wipes instead of TP too. I definitely prefer it to dead tree.







We have a step can next to the toilet for the used ones and a basket of fresh ones on a shelf.

I do have some cloth pads (I got them from The Rag Hag iirc, but it's been a while) but I prefer to use my menstrual cup most of the time.


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## Thursday Girl

i have a lot to read in this thread, but i am so excited to read it and learn more. i have been on a journey to change our lives for years now, and i am impressed wiht how far i have come and i can't wait to go even further.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama13* 

I bought a trashcan with a swinging lid. I just use the wipes and put them into the container. ... I actually prefer this to real TP now.

!

me too. when i first heard of cloth TP i was gorssed out, but now i dislike using TP, it doesn't feel as nice. Dh won't give it up though.









i just do a regular wash on them i don't even do an extra rinse, which is the same for the diapers. well everyonce in awile i will do either a soak or a rinse, but not everytime, i have had no problems this way.


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## majikfaerie

We dont use TP - we use water. even better than cloth, IMO - its the natural way.


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## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy* 
me too. when i first heard of cloth TP i was gorssed out, but now i dislike using TP, it doesn't feel as nice. Dh won't give it up though.









i just do a regular wash on them i don't even do an extra rinse, which is the same for the diapers. well everyonce in awile i will do either a soak or a rinse, but not everytime, i have had no problems this way.


Same here!
We do all of our laundry on cold/cold, regular cycle, including diapers (plus cloth TP) and no problems at all.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eco_mama* 
Just wanted to announce that we bought our first "human" powered lawn mower today!!







We love it! It works great!

i borrwed my nieghbors but alas, our grass is of a variety that it just doesn't cut it, it only bends it down. I don't knwo what type of grass we have, actually i think throughout the whol eyard we have about two varieties in the front yard and three in the back, well one is ground cover. everything just grew naturally. sodding and grass lawns piss me off, it is so much watsed water and problems b/c this grass doesn't really belong here.

I'd like to get a goat to take care of our lawn but i really don't thinkit is allowe din the city limits. although i think i mgith get away with having chickens. hmm.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 























You know I don't think I every told you guys that we run our car off of waste vegetable oil. Talk about feeling good! Driving up north in the summertime reusing a waste product, not using gas, and cutting our emissions up to 90%!

Check out www.greasecar.com

dh wants to do this, but first we need money to buy a diesal car and then we need money toconvert it, and then get the kit to make bio-diesal. dh is totally into it, and someday soon it will happen.

my fil has a truck he runs on propane. plus they are generatting so much electricity the city has to buy it from them! dh and Step FIL are going to open a solar electric business. (and then we get solar panles. Yeah!!)


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## Bex80

Has there already been a discussion on composting? Specifically making your own bin and some how-to info? I don't mind reading back in the thread, I just don't know where to start looking!







Beginning? Middle? Original thread?


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## smeisnotapirate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bex80* 
Has there already been a discussion on composting? Specifically making your own bin and some how-to info? I don't mind reading back in the thread, I just don't know where to start looking!







Beginning? Middle? Original thread?









DH and I made our own compost bin out of deck wood with a latch in the top (to keep the squirrels out), but you can also make one out of chickenwire fence in a big circle, depending on how much land you have. If you have less than an acre, though, and will just be using it for your home use, I'd recommend the one we made. I can get you plans if you PM me.


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## Alcyone

I'm going to make a worm bin soon, based off these plans. The exact container they use is not available here, but in looking at the plans, I don't see any reason that any other bin wouldn't work.

We're in a third-floor condo, so the chicken wire idea isn't so plausible.







I also looked into bokashi, but the info I found on it is awful (as in the quality and usefulness of the info, not as in bokashi itself) and the vermicomposting info is plentiful.


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## Slabobbin

This thread is so long that I'm not sure if this has already been discussed or not, but does anyone have a backyard pond?

We want to certify our yard as a Certified Backyard Wildlife Habitat and the pond is the last step. I was going to see if anyone had any tips.


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## accountclosed3

i've moved from cloth wipes to using water in a bottle. it works great--for me at least. ryan still uses toilet paper (and is good at clogging the toilet with it). but, at least half way there.


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## AngelBee




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## Slabobbin

I've tried the "water bottle method" and I can't seem to get it to work for me. My toliet is right beside the tub so I can even refill it easily, if needed. But I just can't seem to get "clean" (I cannot believe I am discussin this online, but what the heck







). Any um....tips?


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## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
I've tried the "water bottle method" and I can't seem to get it to work for me. My toliet is right beside the tub so I can even refill it easily, if needed. But I just can't seem to get "clean" (I cannot believe I am discussin this online, but what the heck







). Any um....tips?

Thanks for saying what at least one other person was thinking.


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## ramlita

:









Also, what do you do about the part where you're still _wet_?







:


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## beanma

back to composting -- there's a compost 101 sticky in "diggin in the earth" and Organic Gardening magazine has a feature on it here -- http://www.organicgardening.com/feat...ews_2007_09_10 .

hth


----------



## loraxc

Does anyone know if you can recycle construction paper? What about if it has glue on it? DD brings home reams (it seems) of art projects from daycare. (They do do some recycled-stuff art, too.)

Also, what do you use in your automatic dishwasher? I can't seem to give it up







but I'd like to use a green detergent. The one I tried didn't work at all, though.


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Does anyone know if you can recycle construction paper? What about if it has glue on it? DD brings home reams (it seems) of art projects from daycare. (They do do some recycled-stuff art, too.)

Also, what do you use in your automatic dishwasher? I can't seem to give it up







but I'd like to use a green detergent. The one I tried didn't work at all, though.

I stopped using mine last year but I recommend Ecover Tablets. They worked the best for me.


----------



## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flowers* 
So I am about to purchase some cloth mamapads for pp....(I am 39 weeks!) since all my old ones have bitten the dust. What are everyone's favorites? Whose works the best....most comfy.....decent price.....good wahm to support!

I love my gladrags. I use the organic cotton.


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Also, what do you use in your automatic dishwasher? I can't seem to give it up







but I'd like to use a green detergent. The one I tried didn't work at all, though.

I know what you mean!

7th Generation was worse than useless in our dishwasher. It just stuck to everything along with the food and stuff.









We use Ecover (loose powder) now, and it works great








Though... every now and then, a load will come out a little cloudy-looking on the clear glass stuff. This seems to happen when we get close to the bottom of the box. Now we shake up the box to mix it up, and it doesn't seem to happen as much.

I just noticed in my buying club catalog that the BioPac DW powder is a lot cheaper, and comes in larger increments (less packaging







)
Has anyone used this brand? I'd hate to buy a ten pound box and find it useless.









As for construction paper:
in our town, all paper gets mixed together. I don't know about glue. Seems like the best thing is to ask someone who works in the system in your area.


----------



## Bex80

Will check out that sticky and will PM the mama with the plans---as soon as bedtime routine is over.







Thanks a ton!!


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
DH and I made our own compost bin out of deck wood with a latch in the top (to keep the squirrels out)

What kind of wood do you mean?
(I wouldn't use pressure treated wood for compost.)


----------



## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Does anyone know if you can recycle construction paper? What about if it has glue on it? DD brings home reams (it seems) of art projects from daycare. (They do do some recycled-stuff art, too.)

Also, what do you use in your automatic dishwasher? I can't seem to give it up







but I'd like to use a green detergent. The one I tried didn't work at all, though.

what about recycling it yourself? you can rip it up small and what not then make new paper!! it's fun too, well from what i remember as a kid.


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Also, what do you use in your automatic dishwasher? I can't seem to give it up







but I'd like to use a green detergent. The one I tried didn't work at all, though.

I have been collecting "recipes" for natural home and body care, most of them coming from various threads on MDC. Apologies to the OPers but I didn't save who posted any of them. This is what I have for dishwasher:

1) a mix of a 50/50 mix of borax and bs and a vinegar rinse

2) baking soda and white vinegar in the dishwasher. just dump a couple of tablespoons BS right on the door of the dishwasher before I lift it up so it goes right in there and half a cup or a good 'glug' of vinegar in the rinse 'thingy' and my dishes are fine and we haven't gotten sickies from anything yet.

3) mixing baking soda and tea tree oil together, tossing the powder mixture on the bottom of the dishwasher or the soap dispenser, about 3-4 tablespoons work (it depends if your machine has a tendency to cake fine powders or not). We are also putting the white vinegar in the rinse aid dispenser (the one on the door with the screw cap).

That said, I haven't tried any of them because baking soda is hecka expensive here. I use Ecover tablets.


----------



## Jecca

hmmmmm got me thinking ijust switcher to ecover for my dw but the tablets maybe next time I'll try to powder i think our buyers club uses it, is using the dishwasher really that bad seems like it would use less water then washing dishes tha many times......i could be wrong ive never researched it.


----------



## delfuego

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy* 
dh wants to do this, but first we need money to buy a diesal car and then we need money toconvert it, and then get the kit to make bio-diesal. dh is totally into it, and someday soon it will happen.

Actually, if you make (or buy) biodiesel you don't need to convert the car... you can run biodiesel in any diesel engine. If you "convert" the car (i.e. add a heater to your fuel tank and an extra fuel tank in the trunk so you can start it on regular diesel) you can run on straight vegetable oil (SVO) or waste vegetable oil (WVO) like flowers does. None of it is really that big of an expense (except the purchase of the car... and that depends on how new/fancy a car you want... my 1983 Mercedes Benz cost $650 and I run it on straight biodiesel... used to use WVO). You don't have to purchase a "kit" to make biodiesel you can use an electric waterheater for much cheaper, just look up "appleseed processor" online.

There's been extensive conversation about this topic in the thread, do a search on biodiesel... it's quite interesting.


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jecca* 
is using the dishwasher really that bad seems like it would use less water then washing dishes tha many times......i could be wrong ive never researched it.

It depends both on the dishwasher and the way you use it. If you have a modern, efficient dishwasher, and you only run it when it's full, then yes, it is possible that you're saving water over doing it by hand. If you have an older or inefficient model and/or you run it frequently when it isn't full, then you're wasting water.

Not to be mean, but I had to read your post several times to understand it. If you could use periods at the ends of your sentences, it would aid a lot in others' reading comprehension.


----------



## smeisnotapirate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
It depends both on the dishwasher and the way you use it. If you have a modern, efficient dishwasher, and you only run it when it's full, then yes, it is possible that you're saving water over doing it by hand.

Dh and I have the Fischer & Paykel Dish Drawer. It's FANTASTIC. Pricey, but I'd recommend it to anyone and we save a TON of water.


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LucyRev* 
Alcyone, i would love to see a picture of your new floor with 7 colors! How fun.

pictures and video of our new floor


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramlita* 
I know what you mean!

7th Generation was worse than useless in our dishwasher. It just stuck to everything along with the food and stuff.









We use Ecover (loose powder) now,

and it works great









Both 7th Gen and Ecover worked like crap for us, mostly because of our severely hard water. Now we use Trader Joe's detergent and it works pretty well. It even rates well in Consumer Reports.


----------



## jtbuko

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alcyone* 
pictures and video of our new floor

I LOVE your design. We are finally living our marmoleum dream too. We put it in this past spring, and love how interesting, low maintenance, and fun it is. I let my hubby do the design since he agreed to do most of the installation while I juggled kiddos. My only input was demanding that he use at least 4 colors


----------



## Alcyone

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jtbuko* 
My only input was demanding that he use at least 4 colors









Sounds reasonable to me!








My MIL still hasn't seen it, so I don't know if the seven color aspect is still bothering her or not. Oh well.


----------



## RaRa7

Does anyone know anything about enamelware? I don't like using plastic plates for the kids so I have been using this. Now I wonder if it's safe? Once the enamel has chipped off there is SOME kind of metal underneath.....?


----------



## kimberlychapman

In terms of what I learned in my ceramics class, it depends totally on what's in the mix. Food grade enamelware *should* be safe even if there's a chip (although continued use might destroy the piece, as stuff gets in beyond the protective coating). But in these days of lead-contaminated toys, I would be wary of anything where you don't completely trust the company to have ensured that everything that went into the piece was food safe. If you think the company that made it might have cut corners (ie if you bought the piece at a dollar store), you might want to be more paranoid than if it's a high-quality piece made by a company with a long and established reputation for safety.


----------



## bellymama

is there a way to stop junk mail from coming? you know how you can get on "no call" lists? is there a "no mail" list?


----------



## staceychev

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
is there a way to stop junk mail from coming? you know how you can get on "no call" lists? is there a "no mail" list?

It's a little more complicated than the do-not-call list. Check: http://www.newdream.org/junkmail/.


----------



## bellymama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *staceychev* 
It's a little more complicated than the do-not-call list. Check: http://www.newdream.org/junkmail/.

thanks!


----------



## RaRa7

I have a web-site, too but can't put my hands on it right now.
I'll get it tomorow-think it may be a bit easier?


----------



## mariamaroo

You can also check out www.greendimes.com.


----------



## gratefulbambina

I use greendimes, they do work


----------



## RaRa7

this is the one I have (haven't tried it though-got it from a magazine on green living)
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm#getofflist


----------



## ghostlykisses

Hi there. I am new to learning about being more green. I admit you would probably come ot my house and gasp in horror but I am learning and making small steps. My reason for being more green is just to be a better steward of everything God has provided.

I am very happy to see the tips on dishwasher stuff. I am searching for something that I will feel better about using. I hate it when there is all that mystery chemical residue on our dishes, who knows what that stuff is.

as for mama pads I make my own using recycled flannel sheets and matress covers. They are probably a little bulkier than some other types but they work just fine and I like that I can stack up the liners as needed. I use the pattern that can be found on www.hillbillyhousewife.com . When I was using store bought I had trouble with leaks but I never have them with these and I do not even use anything waterproof in them. At first I did not know how I would feel about the mama pads but now I love them. They are comfy and save so much money and keep tons of waste out of the trash. Now the cloth TP still creeps me out.


----------



## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ghostlykisses* 
Hi there. I am new to learning about being more green. I admit you would probably come ot my house and gasp in horror but I am learning and making small steps. My reason for being more green is just to be a better steward of everything God has provided.

Welcome!

We're all on a journey that will involve continually trying to improve. Some of us have just been on the journey a little longer, that's all. So I really believe no one here would gasp in horror.


----------



## ramlita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ghostlykisses* 
At first I did not know how I would feel about the mama pads but now I love them. They are comfy and save so much money and keep tons of waste out of the trash.
Now the cloth TP still creeps me out.

I love how everyone has their own squicking points.









I just use cloth TP for _pee_, three weeks of the month,
if you know what I mean.







:
It saves a lot of paper, and doesn't get icky.
It's especially easy right now since DS is still in diapers, and I can just toss the wipes in the pail that's already right there.
I cut up an old flannel receiving blanket that was all ratty at the edges, and an old waffle knit, all-cotton thermal shirt of DP's.

Cloth pads used to freak me out- they don't have an officially waterproof layer, which was very scary to me at first. Those heavy-bleeding days in high school seem to have scarred me... I love them now, especially now that I stomp them in the shower for the extra rinsing, and they don't get smelly the way they used to.

Thanks for the link- it's an interesting site.
My nutritional point of view is very different from hers, but lots of other info is bound to be useful.


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ghostlykisses* 
I admit you would probably come ot my house and gasp in horror but I am learning and making small steps.

...

At first I did not know how I would feel about the mama pads but now I love them. They are comfy and save so much money and keep tons of waste out of the trash.

The thing is, anybody who is trying even a little bit looks awesome next to most folks. You're using cloth pads...you're WAY ahead of the mainstream already! So nobody here would gasp in horror.

OTOH, I fear what people like the Queer Eye guys or Martha Stewart would say if they saw my house and my massive piles of saved clutter. They'd tell me to throw out those stacks of unrecyclable yogurt and margarine tubs and instead spend money on an attractive set of painted canisters. BLAH. No way! I'll take the cheap and eco-friendly route, thanks!

And I'm with you on the mama pad thing... I resisted forever, mostly because nobody would give me a straight answer on an important question: I wanted to know how good they were in terms of being able to position them between fat thighs.

WARNING WARNING, I'm about to say menstrual-related stuff so if you're grossed out by that (although really, what are you doing on this board if you are?), skip the rest of this post!

Okay, so us fat girls often have what I call a "spooge problem", as in, the pressure from our fat thighs makes menstrual blood squirt forward or back but we rarely get much coming straight down. So I feared getting itty bitty little cloth pads because if I put them up front (assuming they'd even fit that way), inevitably I'd lean back sometime and squirt backwards and have a major leak. Plus, whenever I sit for a long period of time and then stand, I get massive major sudden flow in all directions (maybe this happens to thin girls too?), so I needed a pad that could handle that.

Well, after years of getting no answers, I took a chance and ordered a regular-sized gladrag when I bought my daughter's cloth diapers before she was born. And yeah...the regular-size was okay for light flow but it couldn't deal with the multidirectional spooging. But it was so much more COMFORTABLE than a plastic pad, so I took another chance and bought some of the postpartum gladrags directly from their site, and those things ROCK! Plenty long enough to catch stuff in front and back...my only complaint is that I wish they made longer inserts to go in them. I could make my own, but I haven't yet bothered.

I had to go back to disposable pads while travelling abroad and man oh man those things make me ITCH. Yuck. Cloth is bulky and yeah you have to clean it, but it feels SO MUCH NICER on your skin!


----------



## gratefulbambina

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
The thing is, anybody who is trying even a little bit looks awesome next to most folks. You're using cloth pads...you're WAY ahead of the mainstream already! So nobody here would gasp in horror.

OTOH, I fear what people like the Queer Eye guys or Martha Stewart would say if they saw my house and my massive piles of saved clutter. They'd tell me to throw out those stacks of unrecyclable yogurt and margarine tubs and instead spend money on an attractive set of painted canisters. BLAH. No way! I'll take the cheap and eco-friendly route, thanks!

Have you tried posting these on Freecycle. I have a homeschooler that I save these containers for and she comes when I have a bag full and they get great use out of them.


----------



## kimberlychapman

You misunderstand...I *use* my tubs! I store leftovers in them, beads, etc...I use them as portable unbreakable bowls with lids...I let my daughter use them as drums...

The thing is they're not "pretty" so the home makeover types would want me to ditch them in favour of pretty ones, but I'm happy with free and functional!

BTW, while I'm here, here's a quick eco-friendly party tip I've discovered...if you want to be able to serve food but don't want to use breakable dishes (especially with little kids), and you don't want to use wasteful disposable stuff, go to a party store and get an inexpensive pack of simple plastic plates. I got 20 for less than $2 and will use them at my daughter's birthday party tomorrow. They're sturdy enough to be washed and reused, but if a kid does trash one, I won't be concerned.

I considered getting some plastic washable plates at the 99cent store but they didn't have patterns I liked, at least not worth spending that much more for. But that's another viable option.

I also got canvas tote bags from Oriental Trading and painted the kids' names on each, so the goodie bags aren't disposable and might actually get years of use since they're personalized.


----------



## VeganCupcake

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
BTW, while I'm here, here's a quick eco-friendly party tip I've discovered...if you want to be able to serve food but don't want to use breakable dishes (especially with little kids), and you don't want to use wasteful disposable stuff, go to a party store and get an inexpensive pack of simple plastic plates. I got 20 for less than $2 and will use them at my daughter's birthday party tomorrow. They're sturdy enough to be washed and reused, but if a kid does trash one, I won't be concerned.

I considered getting some plastic washable plates at the 99cent store but they didn't have patterns I liked, at least not worth spending that much more for. But that's another viable option.

I did this, too! I teach college English as a second language, and my students are far away from home and sometimes kind of lonely, so I make something to celebrate their birthdays. I was tired of buying paper plates to throw away, so I bought some lightweight washable plastic plates. Although we had to dig a couple out of the trash the first time







, since then, they've remembered just to put them back in a box for me to take home and wash. The investment up-front was a bit more, but it works great!


----------



## ghostlykisses

I am so glad that I finally have found some one else who has the same "spooge" factor problem as I do! Just having the cloth pads has helped, I think the cloth absorbs the liquids faster than the plastic stuff so no matter which way the flow goes it gets soaked up quickly. What a conversation!

I am another saver and re-user of plastic yogurt bowls, take out dishes, ect. I store foods in them but never cook in them. So they do not look great, oh well at least I am giving them more use instead of just throwing them away when they are empty.

My step father had an idea for a way to reuse things and give edible gifts. He wants to get a collection of normal dinner plates that people no longer want that can be used to bring people edible gifts. When you give the food gift on the plates the people will not have to worry about giving them back and could either use the plate or recycle it again to give some one else a gift on.


----------



## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
Although we had to dig a couple out of the trash the first time

Yeah, some helpful folks at the party yesterday threw out the plates (even though I'd said beforehand that I'd be reusing them), so no biggie, when everyone was gone I pulled them out and today I washed them thoroughly, so they're ready for another party.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ghostlykisses* 
I am another saver and re-user of plastic yogurt bowls, take out dishes, ect. I store foods in them but never cook in them. ...
He wants to get a collection of normal dinner plates that people no longer want that can be used to bring people edible gifts.

I don't cook in my reused plastic either because anything with fat in it can cause overheating of the plastic, which not only damages the plastic but can allow for small amounts of chemicals to come out as the plasticizer breaks down. I checked this with my brother-in-law who has done doctoral research with polymers and he said once or twice won't kill anyone but that yeah, microwaving food in that kind of plastic long-term probably isn't a great idea.

And the idea about the giveaways is awesome!


----------



## pooh-tiggermom

Neat group! I never actually read thru the posts in here til yesterday & today, & then just read the 1st & last cpl pages. I keep thinking Im not doing enuff green stuff, but when I read the lists of things we can do I realize I am doing a lot.

Some things we do:
I CD with my youngest (he is out of dipes now tho)
BF'd all 3 boys for at least 2 yrs & will BF & CD again when 4th is born (April '08)
line dry (house we bought has electric dryer outlet & we have gas dryer....but I LOVE that I can hang dry & not worry about HOA!!)
We built a compost bin when we moved in (May this yr)
we recycle everything we can (love that I dont have to PAY for them to pick up)
We use the big dog food bags for trash
I switched to Diva cup last yr & LOVE it!
I cut up an old pair of flannel jammy bottoms & use those for wipes (pee only tho







) used a bigger piece folded up with my Diva for the teeny leaks on the 1st cpl days
We hand wash dishes (no DW anyways) & toss water on non food plants outside, & use dishwater to clean out the compost bucket & pour the water on compost
DH took cold showers this summer & turned water off while he soaped up (we live in AZ desert so mornings are warm too)
Spent over $200 on rain gutters etc. We have monsoon season in the summer & didn't have enuff time to wait in finding used barrels free/cheap. It was either buy now or wait til next yr. So now Im keeping eyes out for other stuff.
We have a pile for dog waste instead of throwing in trash
Kids & I are vegan, DH is at home, but eats meat when we go out (maybe once/mo & the occasional sneaking of some awful fast food junk Im sure







)
water bottle w/vinegar & TTO for cleaning & baking soda for scrubbing.

Ok there's a few other things, but I'm making this too long. A cpl things I wanted to share tho. My DH found this idea in a magazine (surprised me when he told me bout it & said he could do it!







) Take some old tires & cut in half (we actually are cutting out 1 side rim as it's much easier). Bury them where you're going to garden, then plant. The tires catch some of the water & you use a little less. I think it said it cuts watering in half. We haven't started our veggie garden yet (living in the desert Im nervous about whats gonna survive). We're slowly working on it tho. We got some tires from one of those family fun places that has a little race track. The guy said take as many as we want as it would be helping him out too. Then weeks later we met a cpl guys who work at different tire places & said they could get us more.

Also we used old wood pallets from DH work to make a compost bin. Put chicken wire around it to keep the dogs out of it. It's nothing near fancy, just thrown together. I know some places don't allow ppl to take them. DH works for a copier company & they don't recycle theirs. So you could try contacting a place near you & ask them. Sometimes they get metal ones too & we use those in the sheds & carports.

Oh yes we also have a separate compost heap for yard debris & dead houseplant stuff. Don't know what isn't safe for food compost so we just did it this way. We just bought an acre out in a desert rural area, so Im loving the "freedom" we have to compost & line dry etc.


----------



## ghostlykisses

I guess I am doing something right. This week we missed putting our trash and recycling out for pick up. My husband said to me "it's no big deal the first trash can is not even full, what is going on? We used to have more trash" I told him that I noticed that since I had gotten better about recycling and started composting most food waste (I do not put meat in) our trash level has gone way down. Now on the other other hand our recycling bins will be over flowing by trash day next week







But that is a good thing right!

So I was looking into getting some sigg bottles for the kids and I for an upcoming trip. There is no way I can afford them but I really think I would like to have something safe and reusable for when we are out all day at parks and such. I think I might order a sigg for myself because I hate plastic to drink out of but I am wondering what to buy for the kids? Are the thermos ones I have heard about ok in the heat?


----------



## RaRa7

here's some Sigg's on sale:

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/si...ba756d2cb84782
not sure about the Thermos braND?


----------



## straighthaircurly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
I did this, too! I was tired of buying paper plates to throw away, so I bought some lightweight washable plastic plates. Although we had to dig a couple out of the trash the first time







, since then, they've remembered just to put them back in a box for me to take home and wash. The investment up-front was a bit more, but it works great!

Add me to the list of people doing this. I do it for plastic cups, plates, and silverware. For small parties I just clear the plates myself and sort in the kitchen. For big parties I set up two "garbage" cans and label them. One says "plasticware, cups and plates". The other says "Garbage only...not plastic items." Worked well even for a little kids garden party. Some people probably think I am strange but I don't care. We also use those plates and cups when we camp out. Since we only camp for one night at a time we just bag 'em all up and bring them home to load in the dishwasher







, no trying to degrease dishes with cold water (or taking the time to heat water on the stove).


----------



## straighthaircurly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
I did this, too! I was tired of buying paper plates to throw away, so I bought some lightweight washable plastic plates. Although we had to dig a couple out of the trash the first time







, since then, they've remembered just to put them back in a box for me to take home and wash. The investment up-front was a bit more, but it works great!

Add me to the list of people doing this. I do it for plastic cups, plates, and silverware. For small parties I just clear the plates myself and sort in the kitchen. For big parties I set up two "garbage" cans and label them. One says "plasticware, cups and plates". The other says "Garbage only...not plastic items." Worked well even for a little kids garden party. Some people probably think I am strange but I don't care. We also use those plates and cups when we camp out. Since we only camp for one night at a time we just bag 'em all up and bring them home to load in the dishwasher







, no trying to degrease dishes with cold water (or taking the time to heat water on the stove).


----------



## MAMARabbitt

SO Subbing!


----------



## *Robin*

Hi, I am new to this area. My husband and I try to do everything we can to live sustainably. I am looking for some advice though.

We live in a small condo with a one car garage. I want to make the garage into an indoor play area for my 15 mo old for the winter. In order to do that, I want to cover the floor with something, but can't think of anything that's a sustainable material. My first thought was those foam floor tiles and fit together, because the provide padding and are easy to clean, but foam is FAR from sustainable and off-gases too. Any one have any ideas?


----------



## VeganCupcake

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robinlaroy* 
Hi, I am new to this area. My husband and I try to do everything we can to live sustainably. I am looking for some advice though.

We live in a small condo with a one car garage. I want to make the garage into an indoor play area for my 15 mo old for the winter. In order to do that, I want to cover the floor with something, but can't think of anything that's a sustainable material. My first thought was those foam floor tiles and fit together, because the provide padding and are easy to clean, but foam is FAR from sustainable and off-gases too. Any one have any ideas?

The first thing that comes to mind is cork. Another possibility is marmoleum. Neither is cheap, though. But both are sustainable and pretty safe. (Except marmoleum tiles can be backed with high density fiberboard, which probably offgases.) Forbo Marmoleum has a "click" product that you just snap together. But it's something like $8/sqft.


----------



## flowers

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robinlaroy* 
Hi, I am new to this area. My husband and I try to do everything we can to live sustainably. I am looking for some advice though.

We live in a small condo with a one car garage. I want to make the garage into an indoor play area for my 15 mo old for the winter. In order to do that, I want to cover the floor with something, but can't think of anything that's a sustainable material. My first thought was those foam floor tiles and fit together, because the provide padding and are easy to clean, but foam is FAR from sustainable and off-gases too. Any one have any ideas?

The first thing that popped into my mind was FLOR. I am not sure how sustainable the actual company is but they have products made for ALL types of flooring and you piece it together with squares. I remember their catalog having all natural options and it looked really cool.


----------



## jimblejamble

*hops on the bus*

er....since we're trying to be green......the bike? hand-cart? skateboard?


----------



## snozzberry

Check out this cool site! http://greenhalloween.org/


----------



## Manonash

Sorry I haven't posted in a while.

Add me to the group that washes plastic cups and utensils when I do use them. I rarely use them anymore though. I have the same cups and utensils that I've had for years now. I use them maybe 3x a year. It just hurts me to chuck them out at other people's gatherings.

I am so excited: DH got a new job that he loves and is able to telecommute most of the time. In the past three months our gas bill has been 1/4 of what it used to be!!! Since we just got our cars paid off and aren't ready to buy new ones, so we can get the more fuel efficient ones, this has been awesome! I can't believe we are only using 1/4 of the fuel we did just 3 months ago. Love it!

DH is excited too because we are looking at renting solar panels from citizenre.. If it works as advertized, our electric bill should be about what it is now, only greener, and cheaper in the future, because our rate will be locked in to what we pay now per KwH. We are in an awesome location for solar here but it has been previously cost prohibitive.


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## quelindo

I wrote a blog entry about the way we do laundry at our house...I talk about using wastewater from our reverse osmosis filter. I'm pretty proud of that, so I thought maybe my fellow greenies might be interested.


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## gratefulbambina

We signed up for Citizenre almost a year ago...I'm starting to doubt if this company will ever take off


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## Manonash

I hope they do finally make. I think they needed so many to sign up before they could afford to build the factory? DH read more about it than I, so I don't remember exactly how that was supposed to work. I think they are supposed to build the factory next year sometime? Have they been saying the same thing about 2007 in 2006?


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## gratefulbambina

Last time I heard the factory was supposed to be built in Sept of this year...never happened. My rep doesn't even contact me anymore & I signed up to sell them too


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## VeganCupcake

That is sad. I was looking at Citizenre online and I think it's a great idea. We don't have a rep in our area, and our power company doesn't have net metering now, either. Too bad. It could be so great.


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## ghostlykisses

Ahhhhh! I am in a recycling nightmare. Is anyone here from central Florida? Please please please tell me that when all the trash gets to the trash dump place it gets sorted into recycling and non-recyclable items?!?!?! I am staying with my MIL down here on vacation and she is insisting we use disposable plates, cups, amd says that we have to just throw away jars, bottles ect as well and that they do not recycle here. I cringe each time I throw something else away. She could care less and thinks I am a nut case for being concerned. Is this non-recycling thing just in her neighborhood?

I know several of the theme parks pride themselves on recycling and better environmental practices, this week is green week at universal. Not sure how green you can be with all the plastic crap they sell







~I got three eco-bags (or something like that) today at Universal which when I go home will become some of my new grocery bags. Yippee.


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## almadianna

hello! i am new here.
Sometimes it aint easy been green in Texas... happy to meet all of you.


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## mystic~mama

great thread,,,so many awesome links to check out....heres my favorite green living site


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ghostlykisses* 
Ahhhhh! I am in a recycling nightmare. Is anyone here from central Florida? Please please please tell me that when all the trash gets to the trash dump place it gets sorted into recycling and non-recyclable items?!?!?!

.

well i knwo in tampa they have recycling, but not all neighborhoods have recycling pick up. so some of my friends just don't recycle b/c they don't pick up. at my house they do pick up. it's weird i have no idea why they do this some neighborhoods get picked up and some don't.

i am pretty suyre they do not go through the trash though to find recyclables. sorry.


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## TekknixMom

A big ol' SUB from me


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## *Robin*

My parents bought our son a small unfinished toddler table and chairs for Christmas. It's made of sustainable harvested wood! But the problem is we don't know what to finish it with. I've looked into Linseed oil, Tung oil, Hemp seed oil, and beeswax. Any one have any experience in any of these 'green' ways to finish furniture? Or have any ideas on what else would be good?


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## staceychev

Quote:


Originally Posted by *robinlaroy* 
My parents bought our son a small unfinished toddler table and chairs for Christmas. It's made of sustainable harvested wood! But the problem is we don't know what to finish it with. I've looked into Linseed oil, Tung oil, Hemp seed oil, and beeswax. Any one have any experience in any of these 'green' ways to finish furniture? Or have any ideas on what else would be good?

I haven't used them, but you might want to check out AFM Safecoat finishes. Also, if you have a Woodcraft store near you, you might want to check them out. They're not totally green, but very knowledgeable. (And they do have safer finishes too, like milkpaints and such.)


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## beanma

i have used OSMO Wood Wax Finish with good results on trim in my house and plan to finish some doors with it. I tried a SafeCoat PolySeal finish on some doors, but I realized that polyurethane is just a little too plasticky for my tastes.

For our kid table I thought about finishing, but we ended up painting it with zero VOC Harmony paint from Sherwin Williams and we love it. DD1 and I did a splatter paint job on it together and now we don't have to worry about it getting drawn on or painted on or anything. It's the indestructible table and perfect for all messy craft projects. It was not sustainable lovely wood, though. I think oak or pine.


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## AJP

Hey, have any of you been reading about all the new biodiesel developments? It's looking like biodiesel made of oil extracted from algae is gaining momentum, could be a viable reality soon. If you do a news search on algae biodiesel, a bunch of recent stuff should show up.


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## Manonash

Do you think any of those wood seals would cover an old polyurethane finish and lock the odors/chems inside? Before DD was born, DH used pu to finish the inside of some MDF cabinets in our quite-ordinaryily-non-greenly-built home because that's what we were told to do. Well, it's been 20months and we still can't put anything in the cabinets because in a couple days they smell like PU and wood glue from the MDF. Anything I can do short of ripping them out?

What happened to "Living with Ed?" I went to search for it this week and it's gone. But boy, the "green" shows sure are popping up on TV a lot lately. Most are saying the same ole things, but that's still a good start. Sure beats not showing them. But when CNN did "Climate in Peril" I was a bit surprised. I haven't seen the show, it may have been a good one, but to advertise it, they put big poster-sized, fold-out flyers in newspapers? Saw it on Colbert.

Ok, anyone else concerned about the trend towards biomass fuels? It's not the fuels themselves that concern me, it's Monsanto. I'm concerned that if we use them as a gateway fuel, that we'll spend way too long getting out of the gateway, and M will jump all over it and try to bioengineer some super switchgrass, sugarcane, or corn and really mess something up. We already have enough GMO issues because of them, and somehow I can't picture the world going biofuel without their noses in it.


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## almadianna

yes what did happen to living with ed?
i loved that show!!!


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## talia rose

look into AFM Safecoats products. They have a line of sealers that form a membrane preventing offgassing - SafeSeal & Hardseal. Also thier waterbased Polyeuraseal finish and all thier primers and paints seal in the products beneath them from offgassing as well. http://www.afmsafecoat.com/


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## beanma

Yeah, for sealing in stink I would go with a poly like the AFM Safecoat. The OSMO is breathable so I don't think that's what you want.


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## AJP

Regarding biofuels and Monsanto, they already are involved in it as things have been structured so far, with both corn ethanol and soy biodiesel. However, there are so many emerging options for biofuels outside those two that those of us who are interested in using biofuels can pay attention to, then seek out and support when possible, like the algae biodiesel I mentioned above and other non-food crops that can be grown on "marginal" lands not suited to growing human food, like jatropha. I do all I can to avoid supporting companies like Monsanto, and agree with many of the arguments that we shouldn't trade food for fuel (i.e. growing corn for ethanol or soy for biodiesel, instead of human food on prime farmland, although I believe the issue of hunger is more one of politics than of scarcity). However, if awareness of the viability of biofuels doesn't get higher, then the _alternatives_ to GE corn and soy as sources of biomass are unlikely to get off the ground. I think you're right, Manonash, that Monsanto is trying to lock up the biomass market, and that should be resisted. There are so many better options than corn ethanol, which has been the poster child for 'conventional' biofuel (if there is such a thing), and I've detected some indication that it might be circling the bowl anyway (rumblings even in mainstream media about how inefficient it is), but without people realizing that it really is possible to use biofuel instead of petrol fuel then the resistance to moving away from petroleum dependence will be even greater.

It's a very tangled and complex situation, and there's no perfect alternative available right now, but I think that moving towards even imperfect biofuels in conjunction with reducing fuel consumption in general is an important step in moving us away from petroleum dependency and towards a balance in the carbon cycle (which we have disrupted by burning fossil fuels in such large amounts).


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## EnviroBecca

I'm going to get a Prius soon!







We've decided it's the right car for us and just have to negotiate the purchase.

On another topic: I recently bought a brand of recycled-paper TP I'd never seen before, at a great price. The first roll was fine. But the second roll has many tiny black specks in it. Toner??? Is that safe for us to put on our dainty bits?

Quote:

Ok, anyone else concerned about the trend towards biomass fuels? It's not the fuels themselves that concern me, it's Monsanto. I'm concerned that if we use them as a gateway fuel, that we'll spend way too long getting out of the gateway, and M will jump all over it and try to bioengineer some super switchgrass, sugarcane, or corn and really mess something up.








Something's got to knock them out of power before they wreck the whole planet. I wish we could have hemp for biodiesel. It's what Henry Ford originally intended his cars to run on!


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## anvil78

:Subbing


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## kimberlychapman

I'm working on a big fat honest guide to cloth diapering for my website and I have a question for you informed folks...

I keep seeing references that it is legally required to flush all poop down the toilet, whether using a disposable diaper or not. We all know that most disposable users don't flush the poop, so obviously if such a law exists, it's not being enforced, and probably couldn't be.

But do any of you know what if any such law exists? Is it a state-based law or an EPA regulation? I can't seem to find any such law, only endless vague references.


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## TekknixMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
I'm working on a big fat honest guide to cloth diapering for my website and I have a question for you informed folks...

I keep seeing references that it is legally required to flush all poop down the toilet, whether using a disposable diaper or not. We all know that most disposable users don't flush the poop, so obviously if such a law exists, it's not being enforced, and probably couldn't be.

But do any of you know what if any such law exists? Is it a state-based law or an EPA regulation? I can't seem to find any such law, only endless vague references.


Everything I'm reading seems to say it's not illegal, but very frowned upon. I'm not sure of individual state laws though.


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## MeIanchoIyDream

: Thanks for all the good ideas! Just subscribing.


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## Manonash

I hope you are right about the corn source for ethanol being on its way out.

I'm wanting to make cloth hankerchiefs and TP. What are the best materials for those? I have some flannel, is that good? Not sure about the weight of it though or if all flannels are created equally.

Also, does anyone have a Staber washing machine? It's a top-loading, horizontal axis machine that supposedly uses the same amt of water as a front loader. Supposed to be easy to fix when it breaks down. Saw it referenced in Mother Earth News and was curious.

Shonda


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## EnviroBecca

I love flannel hankies! I think 8" square is a good size. Fold in quarters. When blowing your nose, put it between two layers, pointing toward the fold, so it doesn't drip through.

For everyday nose-wiping (as opposed to a really runny nose) I like hankies made of cotton knit, esp. from old clothes cut up because that fabric is softer than new.


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## zoie2013

Okay, I know this has been discussed, but I can't seem to find it. I found some great ideas for reusing your old yoga mat and wanted to share:
Eric Levenstein, a yoga teacher at the Mountain Lakes, New Jersey, YMCA, recycles sticky mats throughout his house. He cuts them to make nonskid pads for cushioning hallway carpet runners and for anchoring the fabric on his baby's changing table. He scissors small squares to go under furniture legs and flowerpots (the mats are impermeable to water) and even tinier pieces to put behind picture frames or bulletin boards.

Abby Tucker, a teacher at Yoga Kula and 7th Heaven, in Berkeley, California, suggests using old mats as pads for your sleeping bag when you go camping; as drop cloths when painting; and as supplemental knee padding on top of your brand-new mat. "That extra padding is great for Ustrasana (Camel Pose) and low lunges," she says.

The potential uses probably equal the number of yoga poses. Last year, Tucker says, she noticed a mat in the entryway of a local cafe. And many animal shelters use them as extra bedding for their animals.


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## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoie2013* 
Okay, I know this has been discussed, but I can't seem to find it. I found some great ideas for reusing your old yoga mat and wanted to share:
Eric Levenstein, a yoga teacher at the Mountain Lakes, New Jersey, YMCA, recycles sticky mats throughout his house. He cuts them to make nonskid pads for cushioning hallway carpet runners and for anchoring the fabric on his baby's changing table. He scissors small squares to go under furniture legs and flowerpots (the mats are impermeable to water) and even tinier pieces to put behind picture frames or bulletin boards.

Abby Tucker, a teacher at Yoga Kula and 7th Heaven, in Berkeley, California, suggests using old mats as pads for your sleeping bag when you go camping; as drop cloths when painting; and as supplemental knee padding on top of your brand-new mat. "That extra padding is great for Ustrasana (Camel Pose) and low lunges," she says.

The potential uses probably equal the number of yoga poses. Last year, Tucker says, she noticed a mat in the entryway of a local cafe. And many animal shelters use them as extra bedding for their animals.

Great ideas! We have a yoga mat I was going to donate, but I hung onto it thinking that it must be useful for SOMETHING. Thanks!


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## snozzberry

Hi green mamas...I need your help!

I'm working on our baby registry, and I've hit a bit of a roadblock trying to find an eco-friendly version of a contoured changing table pad. I posted a thread to see if anyone knows of anything out there, but I wanted to check with y'all specifically. I want a contoured pad for the top of our dresser because I tend to have back problems when I bend down a lot, so I'm not keen on just putting a pad on the bed for changing time.

I'm looking for a pad that _isn't_ foam and _isn't_ nasty plastic. It seems like natural latex would be an easy choice, but I can't find one online. Please tell me someone out there somewhere has thought of this before and makes one?!


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## counterGOPI

i'd love to know that too!


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## talia rose

well this changing table pad is my business (eco home and baby) and i have looked for a long time. i am not aware of anyone doing a contour version. we do a flat version that is 1" of natural latex wrapped in pure grow wool and organic cotton with a quilted outer OR 1" natural latex just wrapped in a wool puddle pad. this would go on top of your changing table just fine - but no contour edges.....


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## snozzberry

Talia, would you mind PMing your business URL? Thanks!


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## VeganCupcake

I wanted to report that our electric bill was way down in October. I plugged the laptops, the TV, and the DVD player into power strips, and I've been super-vigilant about turning them off when those things are not in use. It's made a big difference!


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## zen-ozz

Any thoughts on LED christmas lights? Anyone have any experiences with them? Any ideas on where to buy?

Thanks!


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## gratefulbambina

We switched all our lights to LED this year. Target has the best selection this year from what we've found. They look SO much nicer than regular lights anyways...so BRIGHT!!


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## beanma

We have two sets of LEDs. the only thing I don't like about them is the blue. It's way too bright! The light they give off is on the cool end of the color spectrum anyway and when you couple that with a blue colored light it's yikes! I think I'd kinda like to try some of the yellow ones and see if they have that same problem. Seems like the manufacturers could compensate for that issue just like the fluorescent light people have. I'm pretty happy with the color of most of the small fluorescents lights now. It's a teeny bit cooler, but it's not bad. The LED lights all look like they've been run through a blue filter if that makes any sense. I used them outside on one tree last year. I might get some more this year, though. I'll have to check out Target's selection. I've also seen them at Lowe's.


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## gratefulbambina

I'm also pretty excited since I secretly bought some Solar lights off of ebay to try too


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## ramlita

I got ours at our local Ace hardware store... $12 for a 20-foot strand that has 60 egg-shaped bulbs.

Haven't put them up yet


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## zen-ozz

Target was all out of LEDs, but I did find recycled wrapping paper! That feels like a minor miracle as I had recently done an internet search and found only very expensive paper ( beautiful, but way too much money). I have been collecting paper bags to use as wrapping paper (I would stamp them with the kids to decorate). I also have fabric squares I can use. I will still do that, but it is nice to have a green option!

Off to Ace to find LEDs.

K


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## Manonash

Are there some posts missing? I recently posted some questions about Christmas, got a couple of responses and now I don't see them. I was going to go back to the green Christmas list someone posted about and it's not there. Could someone repost that link please?







Thanks!

I was wondering about the led Christmas lights. My grandmother called me a couple of days and wanted to come over to my house and put up some extra icicle lights that she had. I appreciated her offer, but where we live no one would it see it but us and our neighbor, so I didn't want to put them up for just us. I would put up lights for just us if we could very little or no electricity from the grid to do it. Gratefulbambina, you'll have to tell us how the solar ones work out!


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## EnviroBecca

We put up our Christmas decorations last night. I had forgotten that last year, I salvaged the lightweight plastic tablecloths from my employee holiday party (snowman and poinsettia motifs) and stuck them into the box of decorations. They'll make good wrapping for large presents!







Most of our gifts these days get wrapped in little fabric bags that I made while I was pregnant. I may make some more this year, since my Girl Scouts are doing a sewing project and I've promised to reinforce their seams between meetings, so I'll have the sewing machine out. My mom made some fabric bags last year, too, and we've been trading them back and forth!


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## cheenya

Mostly just subbing here, but I also wanted to add that I've been wrapping gifts in pieces of fabric tied with ribbons for a few years now. I tell the recipient that if they won't use the fabric, they can give it back to me, and occasionally I'll use dishtowels, or other useful pieces of fabric, but often its just a square yard of whatever I've found. I keep meaning to make bags, but until I do, this is working


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## snozzberry

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
Are there some posts missing? I recently posted some questions about Christmas, got a couple of responses and now I don't see them. I was going to go back to the green Christmas list someone posted about and it's not there. Could someone repost that link please?







Thanks!

Weird. How did that happen?

Here's the link to the green Christmas decorating thread.


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## accountclosed3

i know this is silly, but what are LED lights? i want to get some outdoor lights this year, we think.

of course, maybe not, considering our holiday is Dec 8 (bodhi day, day of buddha's enlightenment), and we haven't decorated a THING. maybe i'll decorate on Bodhi Day.

anyway, yeah.

and snozz/talia rose: please forward the business URL to me. i'm interested in eco baby stuff.

ok, is it relaly wrong of me to hope hope hope that i'm pregnant?


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## ramlita

LED light info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_lights#LED

The package we bought says that the strands we bought for $12.99
(20 feet long with 60 "unbreakable" C6 bulbs) are rated up to 20 years.

If 600 bulbs are lit for 6 hrs/day for 45 days,
Traditional bulbs will use 810 kw.
LED ones will use 13 kw.

If you're charged the USA average of .12 cents/kwh,
Traditional cost: $97.20
LED cost: $1.63


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## ramlita

Oh- and hope you're pregnant, too!!!!!!!!


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheenya* 
Mostly just subbing here, but I also wanted to add that I've been wrapping gifts in pieces of fabric tied with ribbons for a few years now. I tell the recipient that if they won't use the fabric, they can give it back to me, and occasionally I'll use dishtowels, or other useful pieces of fabric, but often its just a square yard of whatever I've found. I keep meaning to make bags, but until I do, this is working









I had an idea a while back that I keep meaning to do--get cool fabrics, and figure out a way to attach a ribbon at a key point so that you get wrapping paper plus ribbon in one. Then it totally encourages reusing it, and you could get some awesome-looking gifts: I'm picturing velvet with a thick satin bow!


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## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Talia, would you mind PMing your business URL? Thanks!

would you pm me w/ it as well? thanks!


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## snozzberry

Have you guys seen the new smilie?!?








:


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## ramlita




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## RaRa7

:







:







:








:ya y!!







:







:


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## noralou

Hi Green mamas and papas,
I posted this in Fertility/Family Planning, but it is really you I wanted to hear from







:.
Sorry this is going off topic :







, but it's still about green living.

DH and I attempt to make earth-friendly choices in as many ways as we can - you know, bike or walk vs. drive when possible, buy organic food and clothes, recycled paper products, reusable vs. disposable, etc. And we are well aware that having no children is the most environmentally responsible choice. Despite this, we have one DS, age 2, and I deeply want one more child. My husband leans toward having only one, and points to several well-researched articles about the environmental cost of adding more babies to the world.
This, for example:
http://www.slate.com/id/2173458/
He's very serious about this, and works in environmental science. At the same time, personally he says he would enjoy having a bigger family, and I think he would be willing to have another just to keep me happy. BUT I don't like the idea of him changing his mind to appease me, and am scared he would resent the baby and me for going against his principles.

If we really are done having kids, it breaks my heart. I will grieve for this child who will never be. I hope to convince DH that the daily choices we make and the values we instill in our child(ren) mean that this new person would be of more benefit than harm to the world. Also, for financial and timing reasons, adoption is not an option any time soon. I would like to hear from other green minded parents and how they decided to have more than one child.


----------



## Keeta

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noralou* 
Hi Green mamas and papas,
I posted this in Fertility/Family Planning, but it is really you I wanted to hear from







:.
Sorry this is going off topic :







, but it's still about green living.

DH and I attempt to make earth-friendly choices in as many ways as we can - you know, bike or walk vs. drive when possible, buy organic food and clothes, recycled paper products, reusable vs. disposable, etc. And we are well aware that having no children is the most environmentally responsible choice. Despite this, we have one DS, age 2, and I deeply want one more child. My husband leans toward having only one, and points to several well-researched articles about the environmental cost of adding more babies to the world.
This, for example:
http://www.slate.com/id/2173458/
He's very serious about this, and works in environmental science. At the same time, personally he says he would enjoy having a bigger family, and I think he would be willing to have another just to keep me happy. BUT I don't like the idea of him changing his mind to appease me, and am scared he would resent the baby and me for going against his principles.

If we really are done having kids, it breaks my heart. I will grieve for this child who will never be. I hope to convince DH that the daily choices we make and the values we instill in our child(ren) mean that this new person would be of more benefit than harm to the world. Also, for financial and timing reasons, adoption is not an option any time soon. I would like to hear from other green minded parents and how they decided to have more than one child.

No answers for you, because we struggle with the same thing. We have one DS who is 18 mos, and IF we have another we want them about 3 years apart so we're starting to talk about it with some seriousness at this point.

Have you read Bill McKibben's Maybe One? I plan to before making up my mind.

I'm an only child, so I know the ups and downs of that. I think I lean about 60% to having another, while DH is more like 70% to do it. It's such a hard decision! It's hard to have emotion battle politics/values.


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## snozzberry

I'm pregnant with my first now, but I know this is something we're going to struggle with in a few years.

I always thought we might adopt our second, but as I've learned more about adoption, I just can't believe how incredibly expensive and lengthy the process is. That's just not right.

Anyway, one thing that I've thought about is how the children DH and I will raise will be incredibly conscious about environmental issues. So instead of just looking at the numbers of adding another human to the planet, I think for my own heart I would need to consider the type of person we would be adding. Of course, whether an aware child turns into an adult who acts on that knowledge is another thing.


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## noralou

Thanks for your thoughtful replies on family planning. I'll pass them along to DH. One of the things that is helping "my cause" (of having one more baby), is that we are working toward moving into eco-friendly cohousing, so at least in childhood, our kiddo should have a pretty tiny carbon footprint. When he or she grows up, hopefully DC will share our







: values. Of course we can't count on that, though.


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## Katho

I am new to MDC... just came across noralou's post and wanted to respond:

My DH and I do many of the environmentally-conscious things you do, but let's face it: we drive cars (sometimes), live in heated houses, use electric lights and refrigeration and computers - just by choosing to partake in the high standard of living available in the U.S., we are making a bigger ecological footprint than we need to. In order to truly live up to your principles, you would have to make radical changes in your lifestyle beyond the decision of one child vs. two - for example, maybe DH couldn't work in environmental science anymore if he had to spend all his time growing his own food!

I think you and your DH need to talk about what your principles are and how to live by them, keeping in mind it's a matter of degree to what you can achieve in practice.

Also, I'm curious about which cohousing community you're involved with; DH and I have looked into it too.

- Kath


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## koru

i just wanted to pop in & say "hi!" i was part of the original GLT (as doulalove) but wandered away with an ocassional lurk. i'm back & i'm subbing & i hope to be inspired even more by you great mamas!


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## koru

if you have a second, grab your latest gas bill & help me out here.
first, a little background info....

last spring, the gas company overcharged us quite a bit and i paid it, for some crazy reason (they claimed it was an overdue balance from our old house!?). we're STILL living off the excess!? i haven't been looking at our
statement because each bill says *do not pay* since we've had a credit
on our account. anyway, this month i looked more closely because i was
amazed we could still be living off those few extra hundred dollars & i
noticed our bill was only $69.75 for the month of december (it's cold & wintery here in chicagoland). i quickly checked out the monthly comparisons & it looks like we've used 2/3 less therms than we did this time last year. i can't believe this is possible. can a few of you humor me & tell me what your gas bills have been? is nicor making a ginormous mistake & i'm going to get a bill for $1000 next summer? (fwiw, we used 65.7 therms).

the reason i'm posting this here is because when we moved into our new house i tried to "green it up" by insulating the water heater & installing an electronic thermostat & switching to CFLs (even though that has nothing to do with natural gas). this was mostly last winter. but could those few changes have lowered our gas usage by 2/3? last december we used 197.2 therms & this month, only 65.7. i always keep the heat somewhat low (everyone always moans when they come to my house but i tell them to dress appropriately & wear socks







. it just seems like this is a very low thermal usage for an almost 3000sf house. i'm not complaining....just wondering if this could be an error.

thanks!


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## Buddhamom

Subbing after being a lurker









noralou, have you considered adopting if you don't want to add to the population? We have two bio teens and now have our beautiful daughter that we adopted at 3 days old.


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## Manonash

Stephanie, our gas bill/city bill fluctuates on 3 month cycles. It'll be fairly low, fairly low, then quite a bit higher. What happens is, he only reads the meter every 3 months and then estimates (too low in our case) the other 2. The city denies it, but several people in town have noticed the same thing. My goal is to lower our usage so much, that he overestimates


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## Buddhamom

I use to live in the city and they would leave a paper on the door after each reading and instead of them having to come in and read it (it was in my basement), we would just write out the numbers on the dial and on the paper they would tell us when they would be coming the next month. Is he actually coming to your house or just estimating? Ask them when he is due to come and wait to actually see him read it.


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## VeganCupcake

Our house is 1700 square feet, and for November, we used 71 therms for a total bill of $66.16. We keep our thermostat at 68 in the evenings and totally off overnight. During November, DH was home virtually every day because he'd been laid off, so the furnace was off and on most of the days throughout the month, when it normally would have been off. (We're in Utah, so the outside temps were hovering around freezing--perhaps warmer than Chicagoland.)

$69.75 seems a little low for a 3000 square foot house.


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## RaRa7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
Our house is 1700 square feet, and for November, we used 71 therms for a total bill of $66.16. We keep our thermostat at 68 in the evenings and totally off overnight. During November, DH was home virtually every day because he'd been laid off, so the furnace was off and on most of the days throughout the month, when it normally would have been off. (We're in Utah, so the outside temps were hovering around freezing--perhaps warmer than Chicagoland.)

$69.75 seems a little low for a 3000 square foot house.

wow- you can really turn it off at night? I feel horrible now, living in NC!!! What is a normal temp. inside your house when you wake up?


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## koru

thanks for all your input! i should also mention that 3000sf includes our finished basement but i close the heat vents down there. also, i turn the heat down to 62 at night & keep it around 65-67 during the day. if people come over, i turn it up to 68 or 69.







i'm quite sure this was a month that had an actual reading but i need to put my boots on & go out back to check out the meter myself. with 3 little kids, though, it's hard to do something like that....let alone, remember to do it!


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## koru

i wanted to comment on the number of children topic. i understand that each additional person adds a 'being' to our earth who consumes resources, but i always appreciated the concept of zero population growth....which would mean two children per family. (we've even gone beyond that with our 3 but since my sis will never had kids, i like to say we're zeroing her out!).


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## VeganCupcake

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
wow- you can really turn it off at night? I feel horrible now, living in NC!!! What is a normal temp. inside your house when you wake up?

If we turn it off at 11:00 or so, it's between 51 and 58 in the morning. We're toasty in bed, and I wouldn't want it any warmer than that overnight, because I'd get hot. I also turn it off during the day when I go to work, since DH is also at work, and after 6 or 7 hours, during the day, it's about 62. Works for us!

However, the Red Cross says you should keep the thermostat no lower than 55.


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## Manonash

We're looking at having to knock out our shower and rebuild it in the near future. We want something cost effective and green. I would love to put up something solid with no grout lines, preferrably glass, but am not finding it. Plus, the shower is in a corner and not sure how to do that. I found this place that sells recycled glass tiles in my area. http://www.enviroglasproducts.com/plank.asp. They use an epoxy resin to make the tiles. Is this still a green option?

I wish I could find a cost effective, green option for redoing this shower. It's 6.5' wide, 5' deep, and 9' tall, so we're talking about 207sf of surface material. That would make the recycled glass tile about $5000 which is more than we can afford to part with right now. Any green options that don't cost an arm and a leg?


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## cheenya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeganCupcake* 
However, the Red Cross says you should keep the thermostat no lower than 55.

What I read on this page is that you should not keep your heat set under 55 degrees if you are going away from home. That way if something happens, it will be a bit linger before you have to worry about frozen pipes.
We set our daytime temp at 58 degrees, nighttime is 50. We live in an older home, so there are sections of the house that are colder than that, and sections that are warmer. I'd love to improve our insulation sometime soon


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## KKmama

subbing


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## VivC

Just found you! I try to do my part with green living, but we live in a very poorly insulated apartment with no balcony/yard. We are able to walk to the local grocery, and we usually bus to a larger grocery biweekly. We only drive to the store once every few months, when we're loading up on heavy stuff.

Two thoughts...as I said, our apartment is poorly insulated. And the central heat sucks - the bedrooms are constantly freezing while the living/dining area is roasting (the temperature difference can be as wide as 15 degrees!!!). This is with doors open and insulation sheets over the windows. We have a spaceheater in each bedroom, which we usually put on a four-hour timer before bed. So, is it more green to use the electric spaceheaters, or to run up the gas bill and just live with the cold bedrooms? My son's not the best about staying covered up at night.

Also, I've heard that if a CFL breaks, you could end up with a hazardous waste situation due to mercury. I've got a toddler who pulls everything over and breaks it, so CFLs are only in wall-mounted lamps right now. Does anyone have any resources on exactly HOW dangerous the mercury in CFLs actually is?


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## DaughterOfKali

subbing


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## VivC

What does "subbing" mean? I've only seen it on threads here, lol!


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## Alcyone

Subscribing - so you get notifications when the tread is updated


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## VivC

Thank you...that's shorter than "Marking my spot," lol!


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## kimberlychapman

Consumer Reports just did an article on handling and disposal of broken CFL bulbs, and I believe it is free on their website:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/h...bulbs-safe.htm


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## VivC

That's scary stuff! Hmm...maybe I'll go ahead and do the ceiling fixtures, though. At least I know it won't cause a need for a toxic-waste swat team to swoop in!

Thanks!


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## DaughterOfKali

All but one of my lights/lamps now have those bulbs. They won't fit in one of my floor lamps...so I plan on getting a new lamp. Hmmm, maybe I can pop into a store after bringing ds to the doc today.


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## Manonash

Need suggestions guys --

DD's Bday is coming up and we want to have a Sesame Street themed party. I don't wanna go buy a bunch of SS themed party paraphenalia. Any ideas on how to turn my kitchen and living room into Sesame Street on the green














:? Thanks!


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## LucyRev

Use red and yellow crepe streamers and plates/cups/napkins and just get a sesame street themed banner or table decoration? Or some big character helium balloons with everything else matching solid colors? Maybe get some character stuff from the thrift store? I'm sure they have tons. If you find Sesame Street books at the thrift store, you could cut pictures out and make a poster, or decorate a banner. Actually, there might be some printables online you could use at pbskids.

I remember having an album called "Sesame Street Disco". I wonder if that is still around anywhere?

Disposable napkins/plates aren't very green, but you could possibly find some plastic durable ones that could be washed and used for future parties.

Good luck


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## kimberlychapman

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
we want to have a Sesame Street themed party. I don't wanna go buy a bunch of SS themed party paraphenalia. Any ideas on how to turn my kitchen and living room into Sesame Street on the green














:? Thanks!


My daughter loves SS too, and I did a fairly green party for her...reusable plates and cutlery, only small amounts of balloons and streamers, and for goodie bags I got canvas bags from Oriental Trading and painted each kid's name on it, then put not-too-eco-bad toys in each, and nothing disposable.

I concentrated the SS and other TV faves on her cake: http://kimberlychapman.com/crafts/ca....html#bday2007

Separate issue:

Cell Phones Prolong Your Commute
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...700846,00.html

****
Drivers on cell phones, even on hands-free devices, travel more slowly
than other drivers, are less likely to pass sluggish vehicles and
ultimately take longer to complete their commute - researchers
estimate that such distracted drivers lengthen the average car commute
by about 5% to 10%. That amounts to only a few extra minutes a day,
but those minutes add up...An additional 30 to 50 hours of yearly
commuting time per person costs society broadly too - in fuel
consumption, poorer air quality, and lost productivity at work. "When
you take all the delays and aggregate them on a national level it is a
staggering cost," says Peter Martin, associate professor of civil and
environmental engineering and director of the University of Utah
Traffic Lab.
****

I've always been against cell phones while driving. I never do it, ever, not for any reason.

Cell phone drivers THINK they're doing just fine. This study and plenty others like it show otherwise. If you drive and use your cell phone, you are putting the lives of everyone around you in danger, and now it's revealed you're slowing down traffic and wasting fuel too. So please don't do it. It's not considerate, it's not safe, it's NOT ECO-FRIENDLY...it's just plain NOT OKAY.

And before anyone says that they HAVE to take calls, please bear in mind that my FIL is a doctor treating critically ill children. He gets emergency life and death calls. He ALWAYS finds time to pull over before answering. ALWAYS. If he can find time, so can everyone else. There's simply no excuse for driving and using the phone at the same time, ever.


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## southernmommie

subbing.

First time I saw this thread. I haven't read it all yet, but wanted to drop in and say HI! I have been slowly incorporating living "greener" over the last couple of years.


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## beanma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
Cell Phones Prolong Your Commute
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...700846,00.html

****
Drivers on cell phones, even on hands-free devices, travel more slowly
than other drivers, are less likely to pass sluggish vehicles and
ultimately take longer to complete their commute - researchers
estimate that such distracted drivers lengthen the average car commute
by about 5% to 10%. That amounts to only a few extra minutes a day,
but those minutes add up...An additional 30 to 50 hours of yearly
commuting time per person costs society broadly too - in fuel
consumption, poorer air quality, and lost productivity at work.
...
****

Okay, I am NOT saying that talking on a cell phone while driving is a good idea, but since when is getting there faster using less fuel? Driving slower usually burns less fuel. That's why during the energy crisis of the 70s the speed limits were lowered to 55 nationwide - to save gas! I have NOT read all the article, but I did want to point that little nugget out. Driving 55 and not riding the brakes is usually going to save you more fuel than your average 80mph NASCAR freeway commuter. To reiterate, I am not advocating talking on your cell as a fuel saving device (although I suppose there could be situations...), but just 'cause you're getting there faster doesn't mean you're eco-friendly.


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## kimberlychapman

Perhaps you should read the whole article, because then you'd know they're not saying driving faster or slower in and of itself is the greater fuel consumption, it's the overall bad driving habits of those on cell phones causing all traffic to slower, thus jam up, thus lead to longer time driving, thus increase fuel consumption.


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## ramlita

About the Sesame Street party-

my kids like to play around at pbskids.org,
and I'm pretty sure they stumbled over a section where you can print out stuff specifically designed for party decorations.

Oops. I found it. They have a bunch of different themes, but no Sesame Street. You'd think it would be a popular one!









http://www.pbs.org/parents/birthdays...rge/index.html


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## beanma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
Perhaps you should read the whole article, because then you'd know they're not saying driving faster or slower in and of itself is the greater fuel consumption, it's the overall bad driving habits of those on cell phones causing all traffic to slower, thus jam up, thus lead to longer time driving, thus increase fuel consumption.

Well, I did go and read it after I posted, but I didn't get that from it. I did understand the bit about cell phone users don't switch lanes as often and will stay behind a slower vehicle rather than move to a faster moving lane, but I don't know that that's going to save on fuel. Just re-read it again for the third time and I still don't get that. They do say this (bolding mine):

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...700846,00.html

Quote:

These distracted drivers not only pose a safety hazard, but, as new data suggests, *they may be* slowing down your commute.

Drivers on cell phones, even on hands-free devices, travel more slowly than other drivers, are less likely to pass sluggish vehicles and ultimately take longer to complete *their* commute...
It says that they *may* slow other drivers down, but definitely slow themselves down. All I'm saying is slower is not necessarily more fuel consumptive. The hour long commuter certainly still could be losing a weekend a year from talking on the cell, but that commuter may actually be saving fuel. It's possible. I think the Time article is too fluffy to figure out whether they would or wouldn't be and it doesn't sound like the study was designed to measure fuel consumption, but rather lost time.

If anybody out there is interested in crazy fuel saving driving check out hypermiling. It's not safe, but those people can get 100 mph from a Prius.


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## beanma

I just wanted to add that I think the important and fairly obvious thing about talking on cell phones vs talking to a live person in the car is this:

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...700846,00.html

Quote:

"You communicate differently when you are in the car with someone because both people are aware of and can adjust to conditions that might require more concentration," Strayer says. The passenger may point out an upcoming exit, help navigate, alert you to a sudden stop, or understand when bad weather requires quiet concentration.
I am not advocating talking on cells while driving I just think that that article doesn't really demonstrate that you use more fuel to do so. I am sure that those hypermiler guys (and maybe a gal or two) don't use cells while they drive so they can really concentrate on how they need to drive to save fuel (59 mpg in an accord).


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## EnviroBecca

Here's what Snopes says about broken CFLs.


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## KKmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VivC* 
Two thoughts...as I said, our apartment is poorly insulated. And the central heat sucks - the bedrooms are constantly freezing while the living/dining area is roasting (the temperature difference can be as wide as 15 degrees!!!). This is with doors open and insulation sheets over the windows. We have a spaceheater in each bedroom, which we usually put on a four-hour timer before bed. So, is it more green to use the electric spaceheaters, or to run up the gas bill and just live with the cold bedrooms? My son's not the best about staying covered up at night.

You'd be better off (from an energy stand-point) using the space heaters. When you have problems with uneven heating, they can be very helpful in heating a specific space without doing it by overkill with the central heat. What is your son wearing as far as pajamas go? We generally try to keep them in blanket sleepers (with socks and a long-sleeved T underneath) or the (double-layer) flannel jammies their grandma made them. And yeah, part of this is because they're not good at keeping covered up.


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## VivC

He wears a blanket sleeper covering a pair of socks and a onesie. He just wakes up too early if it's cold in there. The insulation/heating situation in our apartment is insane!!!


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## spiderdust

Did a new thread get started? Or did interest just peter out?


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## kimberlychapman

Good question...I fell out of touch for awhile because I was travelling and then super-busy, but it's been slow for awhile.


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## clothdipemomof2boy

I would love to join this thread thanks for making it. I try to live green. It make me proud that my children they are 5 and 3 and ahalf know what is recycable and what can be used for compost pile (even thought in base housing you cant have one)and what can be thrown away. I love it we will be moving soon back to missouri and will be gardening and living even more green so any ideas you all want to throw this way would be great thanks.


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## KKmama

I wanted to mention a green (re)discovery I just made... in a moment of weakness, I was thinking about getting hot rollers for my hair.







: (I'm not so worried about the electricity, more the "consuming another thing" side.) But then I stumbled across a mention of rag rollers somewhere, and I tried it, and major







. Basically, cut some rags out of an old sheet (~6" x 1" each). In the evening, with hair that is slightly damp, wind up sections of hair that are ~2"x2" (smaller if you have long hair). Tie with rag. Sleep. (Easy to do; they won't come out, and you won't disturb your hair.) Curls in the morning. No cost, no hair damage, not a lot of time involved.


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## VivC

I'm here...I've just been going through some major family stuff (not with hubby - in MY crazy, dysfunctional family).


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## mrsalf97

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KKmama* 
I wanted to mention a green (re)discovery I just made... in a moment of weakness, I was thinking about getting hot rollers for my hair.







: (I'm not so worried about the electricity, more the "consuming another thing" side.) But then I stumbled across a mention of rag rollers somewhere, and I tried it, and major







. Basically, cut some rags out of an old sheet (~6" x 1" each). In the evening, with hair that is slightly damp, wind up sections of hair that are ~2"x2" (smaller if you have long hair). Tie with rag. Sleep. (Easy to do; they won't come out, and you won't disturb your hair.) Curls in the morning. No cost, no hair damage, not a lot of time involved.


Woo hoo, I was considering buying rollers too, now I have got to try this!


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## binkin

I'm subbing! I'd like more information on using rag rollers, 'cause I've read up on it online and every time I just seem to tie my hair into the rag and then I'm in pain trying to get the darn thing back out!


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## klosmom

I have always used socks instead of rags.


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## KKmama

Re the rag rollers:
-My hair was slightly damp, not *wet* or 100% dry (I used a wet washcloth to dampen each section of hair I combed out).
-The rags were ~1"x6". They were old pieces of a flannel sheet.
-I rolled my hair around my fingers, then stuck the rag through the middle of the loop, then did a half-knot (dunno what the official name for that is, but eg, when you're tying a square knot, you make 2 ties; I made one)
-I didn't have probs getting them out in the morning, I think probably because I didn't do any elaborate tying. Maybe put most of your hair up on your head, and do the bottom/back *first*?

I want to hear about the sock method.

One thing I want to try is to make a flax setting lotion. My grandmother (who had the same hairstyle from the 20s till she died several years ago) used that faithfulling to set her waves. I think what she did was just soak a small amount of flax seeds in some hot water, and when the water got goopy enough, she strained off the seeds. (You have to keep it in the fridge, and it only lasts ~a week, so don't make much.) She'd comb it into her hair before she put in the clips to style her waves.


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## klosmom

the sock method
-your hair needs to be damp
-separate about a 2in piece of hair
-hold the end of the piece against the sock and roll up together
-tie the ends of the sock together

does that make since?
I think the socks are easier to get out because they are thicker, they don't tangle as much.


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## clothdipemomof2boy

I have a ? for you all.
My mother told me an idea for going more green. She told me that when I wash my dishes to use a dishpan then after i am done with the dishes to take the water outside and water any plants that are out there. it will work on indoor plants as well. My ? is do they actually have what is called a dishpan and if so were do you get it at.
I was also wondering about a rain barrel were do I get that and do I have to have something special. My big concern is misquitos we have skin problems wihich get more inflamed if we get bit then the average person (dont have a clue why) so that is a big concern. Thanks for any answers you gals have.

Also wanted to say that the rag curlers work great. But was wondering if anyone has tried to curl your hair with cans. just wondering i havent yet since my hair has always been pretty short but now it is long and wanted to try it. Again thanks for any answers.


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## VeganCupcake

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clothdipemomof2boy* 
I have a ? for you all.
My mother told me an idea for going more green. She told me that when I wash my dishes to use a dishpan then after i am done with the dishes to take the water outside and water any plants that are out there. it will work on indoor plants as well. My ? is do they actually have what is called a dishpan and if so were do you get it at.

I have seen plastic dishpans at grocery stores in the plastic-y stuff section. I think you could also get one at a camping/outdoor supply store. They are very inexpensive.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clothdipemomof2boy* 
I was also wondering about a rain barrel were do I get that and do I have to have something special. My big concern is misquitos we have skin problems wihich get more inflamed if we get bit then the average person (dont have a clue why) so that is a big concern. Thanks for any answers you gals have.

Your concern about mosquitoes is a good one--we have West Nile Virus here, so we're concerned about it, too. If your rain barrel has a cover and is fed by a downspout from your roof, you probably won't have much of a problem with mosquito larvae. I think the uncovered standing water is the big concern. (But maybe someone else has better information.)


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## highlandmum

Can I join? We try to live as possible We are currently in the middle of switching all our lightbulbs to long-lasting flourescents. We recycle, have Energy Star appliances, cloth diaper, breastfeed, eat organic, buy local, practice voluntary simplicity, etc... can't wait to watch this thread!







:


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## Jojo F.

Joining too









For the mosquitoes, our neighbor has a bunch of rain barrels and uses mosquito disks (AKA dunks)- They slowly release B.t.i. (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis), a soil bacteria tested and found lethal only to mosquito larvae, black flies and fungus gnats. B.t.i. is active over a 30-day period. All other organisms should be unaffected.
Here is one site that sells them - http://www.cleanairgardening.com/mosquito1.html but I am sure you can find them else where.

For the dishpan water, you need to make sure you are using environmentally friendly soap otherwise you will just kill your plants







We bought our pan, unfortunately plastic, I think at Kmart(I know, I know).

DS, almost 5, helps with the composting, recycling, and gardening(I can't wait to start!!!!). He gets so much enjoyment helping and learning







We, primarily me, limit any chemically stuff in the house. Baking soda, vinegar, hyrdogen peroxide are about all I use to clean. Oh, well I like my Ecover dishwashing liquid too. It's also great mixed with water and sprayed on plants to keep the darn aphids away!!

When we can FINALLY build our own houes, DH is an Architect, it will be wonderful to really have a "green" house. DH is also concerned about the environment and urban sprawl so this will be just awsome when the time comes.


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## clothdipemomof2boy

We definetly use eco friendly dish liquid. Atleast i hope so it is seventh generation. Thanks for all the tips. I will have to check out those disks and get the dish pan thing and try it. Thanks I will be getting them soon and trying it out. you all are great I am so glad I came to find this thread.


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## MamaKalena

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with Paperstone countertops? We just bought an older house and are renovating the kitchen. It sounds like Paperstone is a nice green option for counters and it's made locally here in Seattle so that's a plus, but it does contain a small amount of formaldahyde in the adhesive. According to Paperstone's Web site, this small amount does not emit VOCs. Should I be concerned?

Also, if anyone has any tips for greening up an old house, I'd love to hear them. Neither myself or DH have lived in an older house before. We would eventually like to update some of the windows when we can afford it.


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## highlandmum

Hi again! We live in an old house (really old...built in 1904!) and we are in the process of greening it....I'd say you are on the right path with starting with the windows







Really, to green an old house just make updates as you can to make it more effecient (replace broken floor boards, insulation, etc.)
If you want you can pm me


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## MamaKalena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mallieandjoolsmum* 
Hi again! We live in an old house (really old...built in 1904!) and we are in the process of greening it....I'd say you are on the right path with starting with the windows







Really, to green an old house just make updates as you can to make it more effecient (replace broken floor boards, insulation, etc.)
If you want you can pm me

Thanks! I just might pm you...our house was built in 1906. We will be moving there from a house built in 1988 - gulp.


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## Carlyn

We just moved into our house a week ago. We're renting a big old stone farm house built in 1884!! The windows were replaced around 10 years ago--it's great! We moved from a "newer" farm house, maybe 80 years old or so, and the windows there were terrible! We had plastic on, blankets on top, seals around the edges, but that just helped keep the gusts out, it was still draughty.

The heater here seems to be more efficient too. We're trying to keep the temp at about 16C in the day. I still have to get used to actually changing it for night...we had a wood stove in the other house which heated all the time except for the coldest nights when it couldn't keep up. But hooray for spring coming!


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## Manonash

Here's a huge thread on using rain barrels and other rain collecting info. One poster even said they use goldfish to control the mosquito larvae:
http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5153

Shonda


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## sunnybear

Joining!







:


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## supermuma

Ooh, I am subbing. I guess I never saw this before..but I am definately trying to get greener and greener every day.

I need all of the help I can get to do this too!


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## snozzberry

So, I totally missed that MDC has a Living Green forum now!!! Shall we disband this tribe and all go over there?


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## koru

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
So, I totally missed that MDC has a Living Green forum now!!! Shall we disband this tribe and all go over there?









eek! i missed it, too, and thank you so much!!! i've been waiting for this since Eli's Mommy got us all going last year.


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## cee3

For mosquito control, get a Bat house! You can buy them or make one yourself (there are tons of sites on the net that have free instructions).


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## clothdipemomof2boy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
So, I totally missed that MDC has a Living Green forum now!!! Shall we disband this tribe and all go over there?









tried to click on the link but it did not send me to a thread is that what it was supposed to do. Sorry if that is a stupid question i just dont know sorry.


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## snozzberry

Nope, not a thread...a whole forum!







Check out the name "Living Green" at the top of the page.


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## sunkissedmumma67

:


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## jadekat

subbing!


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## ghostlykisses

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimberlychapman* 
That's pretty disgusting. I mean, it's one thing to be ignorant or lazy about doing it, but to actually be proud of yourself? I don't even get that.

Maybe it's a status thing..."we're so rich we can waste all that we want."

Gahhhhhhhhh......







:







:







:

I know this was an older post but I have to jump and and say that my MIL is like this. When we were visiting her she was throwing everything away. Bags and bags of trash. I asked about recycling and she said she did not care where the stuff went as long as it went away







I drove her so crazy the whole time I was there because I reused disposable plates and cups and at least crushed up items to reduce volume. I am now known as the tree hugger.







: It disgusts me that anyone in this day and age is so careless. I admit I am not perfect and this winter I was quite lazy with some things like recycling but I still did it most of the time!


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## clothdipemomof2boy

My MIL hates me I think when it comes to recycling. I will actually take her recycling and take it back home and recycle it. it is sad cause she lives in missouri and we live in NC my hubby probably thinks i am crazy cause we will go home with a garbage bag full of recycables. then we will reuse the garbage bag later.
I am kindof a wierd when it comes to recycling. I learned that the little mesh bags for oranges can be reused for sponges or you can use them again for produce.


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## Buddhamom

I remember my Mom using the plastic mesh bags from onions to put suet in for the birds when I was a kid.


----------

