# Out of Control 11 Year-Old Boy...Help!



## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

Perhaps someone can give me some advice. I have an 11 year old boy who flies into terrible rages. Most of the time he is ok, though pretty negative and depressed in general. But when he gets angry, he is downright abusive, screaming at the family, using curse words and insults (he calls me a whore and tells his brother and grandma they are losers), and can even get physically violent.

He is my first child and was conceived when I was married to my ex-husband who was constantly verbally abusive, screaming terrible things at me every day. Obviously I left this man as soon as I could get it together to do so, but by that time, Chris was already 1 year old. My ex continued to come by the house and do abusive things pretty regularly for the next year after that, until I finally moved to a different state to be closer to my family. So, in a nutshell, Chris was conceived under abusive circumstances, lived with abuse during his entire gestation period, as well as the first 2 years of his life. I honestly belive he has been imprinted both genetically and behaviorally with this. He even uses some of the same abusive words his dad would use, though no one in my family even swears at all!

To make matters worse, he was fully vaccinated, starting in infancy (I was a young mother and totally clueless about vaccines), and showed signs of mild autism as well as ad/hd by the time he was about 3 or 4. We put him on a no-gluten diet for about a year, and also gave him some homeopathic remedies to hopefully counteract the vaccines, and this worked to some extent. His behavior improved quite a bit, and he was able to resume a pretty normal diet, though I still limited sugar quite a bit.

Over the years since then he has been somewhat functional, except for these violent outbursts. He might go 2 or 3 months without an outburst, and then have a horrible one. He does, however, suffer from mild to moderate depression pretty much all the time. I have noticed that sugar and food additives make him much worse, and I think they set off this most recent epsiode which happened this morning.

The problem is that now that he is 11, it is hard to stop him from getting bad foods at school. Sometimes I find wrappers in his lunchbag, and he tells me that his friend gave him cookies or candy or whatever. Also, he is terribly addicted to sugar/junk food and goes crazy craving it, literally like a crack head. He will do almost anything to get it, even though he knows it is almost ruining his life.

Is there any way to desensitize him to food additives? It actually seems to be the additives more than the sugar that sets him off. Our naturopath tested him for heavy metals and found none. She thinks that the homeopathy we did years ago probably cleared them out. So his problem is probably just a severe sensitivity to food additives (along with the history of witnessing abuse, of course).

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. This is tearing our family apart!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I am sorry that you are going through this. It sounds so difficult!

I am curious to know about his behavior at school. Does he have outbursts in every setting, or just at home?

I don't know if you can make choices for him about his food. Eleven is old enough that controlling his food choices will feel "stifling" to him and he may act out worse in reaction. When he is ready to take responsibility for his actions, he may be receptive to information about his diet, and he might be willing to cooperate. I think though, unfortunately, that kids this age need to take their behaviors pretty far (and experience some natural consequences) before they reach a point that they become ready to take responsibility. Its can be very, very, very scary.

If you haven't already read it, I recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene.

I also wonder about what sort of positive male influence he has in life now? The troubled boys I have worked with at his age are desperate for some sort of model of what it means to be a man.


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks Mamaduck! It helps just to talk about it, honestly, and to hear your thoughts.

The funny thing is that he does great at school. He is a straight A student and also very athletic. He actually won awards last year for both academics and athletics. He has never gotten in trouble in school at all, he saves it for his family!

He does have some males in his life, my dad is wonderful and has been there for him since he was little, my mom's boyfriend is also great and does a lot of hiking and camping with us. Then there's my boyfriend who doesn't spend as much time with us as we'd like (we don't live together and he's got a really busy, high-pressure job), but he's good to us when he's around.

Chris has also continued to spend summers with his dad, who continues to yell and fight with his current girlfriend, so I think this role-modeling is doing a lot of harm. Problem is, it's his biological father, so I haven't felt like it was my right to completely sever their relationship. They love eachother and I'm not God!

He is very bright and understands that he has a mental/emotional problem. He also understands how junk food affects him. He's been cooperative about limiting it in the past, so I am going to sit him down today and have a talk with him and see if he'll abstain from the junk himself. I'm sure he'll agree and go along with it for a while, until the addiction gets the best of him again.

I really don't know how to help him in the long term...the docs would put him on drugs I'm sure, but I won't go down that road. I want to really help him, not set him up for a lifetime of chemical dependency issues.

Thanks again!


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

My advice would be to let go of focusing on the past. You can't change the time with the abusive ex and you can't take away the vaccines, but you can do something about what is happening right now.

The thing that jumped out at me in your post is the observation that he's pretty depressed most of the time. No kid should have to feel that way. I would urge you seek out help for him. I'd start with a child psychologist. Look for someone who specialized in cognitive behavioral therapy. If he already has the tendency to depression at age 11 it is something he really needs to be getting help with sooner rather than later. It is a really hard feeling to be depressed and he deserves some help with that.


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## whalemilk (Jul 11, 2008)

It's hard to find a way to say this that doesn't sound critical, but I wish you would examine some ways in which your expectations may be setting up this child for failure. To wit, it seems like you have decided he is fated to behave a certain way. People, especially children, tend to live up to that kind of expectation. It's a self-fufilling prophecy. Take a look at some of your words here:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corrie6* 
So, in a nutshell, Chris was conceived under abusive circumstances, lived with abuse during his entire gestation period, as well as the first 2 years of his life. *I honestly belive he has been imprinted both genetically and behaviorally with this.* He even uses some of the same abusive words his dad would use, though no one in my family even swears at all!


Quote:

*To make matters worse, he was fully vaccinated,* starting in infancy (I was a young mother and totally clueless about vaccines), and showed signs of mild autism as well as ad/hd by the time he was about 3 or 4. We put him on a no-gluten diet for about a year, and also gave him some homeopathic remedies to hopefully counteract the vaccines, and this worked to some extent. His behavior improved quite a bit, and he was able to resume a pretty normal diet, though I still limited sugar quite a bit.
Two things about this. One, you're focusing on things far in the past that cannot be changed (vaccination, circumstances of conception, etc). And which, honestly, it's quite arguable actually have nothing at all to do with the present situation. They may, but they just as easily may have nothing to do with it at all. In reality, while genetics may influence behavior to some degree, it's highly unlikely that his father's behavior that he only witnessed as a small baby is causing his present problems at all. But if YOU BELIEVE that he is genetically destined to be verbally abusive because his father was, he IS going to be verbally abusive. You will raise him with that expectation and he will live up to it.

Reading this and putting myself in his shoes, I felt hopeless. It feels like you have decided he was damaged by prior bad situations or decisions you regret, and it feels like you have given up on him a bit because of that. Like you could mitigate the effects of those things by changing his diet, but that he is fated to be like his father. That's pretty hopeless and not an attitude that is going to help anyone move out of depression.

I would highly recommend that you get into family therapy, and that you, personally go to therapy alone. I think working through these negative expectations based on unchangeable things from the past is a prerequisite to whatever other work needs to be done.


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks Roar,

We were going to a children's therapist all last year, but it didn't seem to help much. Maybe a different type of therapist would help though...

Depression definitely runs in the family. I've been giving him fish oil and he gets a lot of exercise, which seems to help. Somtimes he is fine, but other days he's just miserable.

I've been around depression all my life, and unfortunately its not easy to beat. My mom takes Prozac, and that helps, but now she's got massive bone loss (comprable to an 80 year olds, and she's just 60), which her doctor says is from the drug. On the other hand, it has helped a lot with her depression, so maybe its worth it. I just hate to start a child on that road so early.


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

Whalemilk,

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I've already done a lot of work around letting go of the fear that he will turn out one way or another. I am actually quite proud and amazed at what he's already overcome and how he is able to do so well in school and sports.

But when he explodes out of the blue with a flurry of abuse, I guess it sends me back into fear to some extent. Of course I am worried that he will be an abuser, when he is displaying the exact same abusive behaviors he witnessed as a little guy!

But still, better to see the postive and expect the best. I do believe that he can overcome this and have a happy outcome. I just think he needs help doing it, and I'm still not sure of the best way to help him. Getting back into therapy is probably going to be one necessary component, I guess.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corrie6* 
Is there any way to desensitize him to food additives? It actually seems to be the additives more than the sugar that sets him off.

I don't know anything about your situation, but I wondered if it would make sense to explore giving him the sugar he craves (I assume it's the sugar he wants) without the additives, if it's really the additives that are the problem? Homemade cookies and so on? If he has an alternative that doesn't set him off, maybe that will help.


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

laohaire,

Thanks, that's a great idea! I do try to do that, and you are right, it does help. The sugar can sometimes still set him off, but not to the same degree. Usually he can tolerate homemade pie, cookies, etc., or even a brand of ice cream with no colors or additives.

I definitely try to micro-manage his food choices, I just worry about what happens when he's out on his own. I wish there was a way to "cure" him of the sensitivity to junk food so that he isn't in danger of flipping out from a bag of Cheetos!


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## babblingbrook (Dec 6, 2007)

For the food issues, can you take him to Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, or a natural food store and let him pick out substitutes for the junk? You can help him look at the ingredient labels too.

ETA By substitutes I mean snack foods that don't have all the nasty chemicals and coloring.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corrie6* 
Thanks Roar,

We were going to a children's therapist all last year, but it didn't seem to help much. Maybe a different type of therapist would help though...

Find a different therapist and try again. I agree with the other poster that both individual and family therapy is a good idea. It may be worth looking at a depression self test for yourself too. http://www.med.nyu.edu/psych/screens/depres.html

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corrie6* 
I've been around depression all my life, and unfortunately its not easy to beat. My mom takes Prozac, and that helps, but now she's got massive bone loss (comprable to an 80 year olds, and she's just 60), which her doctor says is from the drug. On the other hand, it has helped a lot with her depression, so maybe its worth it. I just hate to start a child on that road so early.

Depression may not be "easy to beat", but it is generally a treatable illness. I just don't think it is fair to a kid to say that therapy didn't work, drugs are too scary, etc. Something has to be done. I'm certainly not advocating that a lot of kids be on medication, but I really think you have to weight abstract concerns about bone density (or whatver) against the very real situation where he feels bad right now.


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm gonna







: pretty much all that's been suggested. If I were faced with this situation personally I think I would get him to a doctor that can dx whatever the real issues might be. Food allergies/sensitivities, autism, depression. The explosiveness is common in kids with sensory issues too. Once you know what the problems are it'll be easier to work with. Just to clarify, you do not need to put him on drugs just because he's dx'd with a problem traditionally treated by drugs. I've run across many doctors that will work with you to try to find a solution you're comfortable with. Maybe if some recommendation regarding his diet is coming from a doctor, he'll be more likely to follow it.

Red food dye is an additive that MANY people are sensitive to. If he does have a sugar addiction, that's a problem that should be dealt with on it's own, but perhaps explaining to him that while he can have sweets, you'd like him to try to abstain from red dye to see if that helps.

If at some point you do decide to use drugs, know that they don't have to be a forever solution. You're treatment plan is always open to a bit of reworking, to find the best solution for him.

I know it's gotta be hard. I hope you find something that helps.


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## whalemilk (Jul 11, 2008)

For therapy to work can take a long time, and trying a number of different therapists and/or methods. I would highly suggest seeing someone who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) because it has been shown in studies to be equally to *more* effective as medications for depression. It's a great method, with the qualifier that if you feel it's not working, you may need a therapist who is a better fit--try that before giving up and moving on.

Another specific method to look into for anger and emotional regulation problems is Dialectic Behavioral Therapy (DBT). It can be harder to find someone who specializes in this, but for someone with anger and depression both as major issues, it's also highly effective.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

The fact that he is well behaved at school is an excellent sign. To me, that says that he has some degree of control. It also tells me that he values his education, which is so important.

Does he show signs of depression at school?

Lots of kids melt down after school when it is "safe" to release tension from their long day of "being good." I agree though, that it is scary for a big strong eleven year old to be doing that. One thing that helps my eleven year old son is to have an hour after school where nobody bugs him to do anything that he doesn't want to do. He goes and plays on the computer, or sometimes he goes and takes a bath (the sensory stimulation of the bath is very soothing to him.) He has something to eat during that hour too -- and eventually, he is ready to help with dinner, practise piano, and sit down to work on homework. But he really depends on that decompresion time first.

As far as his depression, I agree with the other posters that depression in a child is not something to put up with -- a depressed child needs therapy and medications should at least be researched and considered very seriously. However, I would like to know if he is depressed at school (to the point that teachers notice) because if he is cheerful, friendly, motivated, and relaxed at school -- then I really think something else must be going on. A clinically depressed person cannot be lifted out of their funk that easily. He spends 30+ hours a week at school, and a mood disorder would certainly permeate that portion of his life.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

Chris has also continued to spend summers with his dad, who continues to yell and fight with his current girlfriend, so I think this role-modeling is doing a lot of harm.
This is the biggest thing that jumps out at me. If this is how he sees someone release anger and pressure, it's going to leave an impression. Have you given him other ways to be angry? For some people, anger is almost a physical reaction. I know sometimes for me it just feels very big...so I walk (hard and fast, I used to run but am not currently that fit) on a treadmill. It may sound silly or simple, but it lets me get the anger energy OUT without directing it at anyone.

From your posts, it sounds like he has a big outburst every few months, but only at home. I think anger managment might help a lot.


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

You guys are great. Thanks for all the replies.

I would say that even though he is a high achiever, he does still have some depression at school, but that the depression he has, both at school and at home usually tends to be pretty mild. It's hard to tell whether he's depressed or whether he just has kind of a cynical, serious personality. He's always been a very serious guy, even as a baby, so I tend to think that some of the "depression" is just his personality. Sometimes, however, he does descend into deeper bouts of depression, and then he also has the rages every few months, so he does need help.

I definitely want to help him in every way possible, but I am very anti-drug, for a variety of reasons. He is, however, seeing a naturopath who has already helped a lot. First of all, we found out that Chris experiences low blood sugar (like me) and we are both taking chromium, which helps tremendously with that, and makes us less moody. Also, Chris has been taking fish oil and a little bit of sam-E, a natural antidepressant. All of this has helped, but he still had a major rage attack the other day, so more still needs to be done. We've got an appointment next week with the naturopath, so I'll find our more then, hopefully.

I like the idea of trying different types of therapies (thanks whalemilk!), so I will look into those. He's done some EFT in the past and had a good result, so I will see if he's open to more of that.

On a positive note, I had Chris write me a short essay (turned out to be only about 7 sentences!) about what happened with his rage attack the other day. He acknowledged that it was not the right way to deal with his feelings and that he felt bad about it, and most importantly (to me) he recognized in the essay that he needs to avoid food additives. I believe he will make an effort in this direction because he really believes there is a connection, and besides, he is an athlete and wants to have a healthy body. We bought some ingredients for homemade cookies, so he can still have a sweet treat.

Thanks again for the support everyone, it really does help!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

In that case, here is a link to a recipe for Aggression Cookies:

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf667818.tip.html


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## Corrie6 (Aug 25, 2008)

Yum!!! Thanks!


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