# Are baby harnesses really all that bad?



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

So, DH, my mom and ILs all think we should buy a harness for DS, who is now 15mo and getting to the stage that he's starting to run away from us- a lot. He wrests his little hand out of mine and is gone like a shot! He's already had some scary close calls (we live in NYC, so you can imagine).
Anyway, I'm sort of waffling back and forth on this one because I'm not sure what I think.
Really.
I've had a friend say that she thinks it makes the child look like it's being walked like a dog.
Another friend says who cares how it looks if it keeps him safe.
The argument is that it allows him the freedom to move around and walk, but keeps him from getting into dangerous situations. It wouldn't be used all the time (just in crowded areas, or in situations where he might run off and get hurt).
We use a mei tai, Ergo and our stroller, but he certainly wants to move about on his own and this 30+lber is getting harder to carry every day.
What are your thoughts?
(*Let's try to keep this civil!)


----------



## *~Member~* (Feb 20, 2006)

I have a runner. We have a harness. It's a little monkey with a zipper pocket and I hold the tail. She loves it.

Here's a photo of it to get an idea (BUT a 2.5 year old's endorsement isn't good because she likes to lick people and bark too







)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pt08/72122.jpg


----------



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

I have 2 for my twins but I have never used them. We have taught them to hold hands from early on and do very well with it but sometimes get a little carried away







. I mostly bought them for when we go to the mall or someplace really crowded. I think if you feel you need one, then use it.


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

I used to think they were evil. Then I had DS. He's my third child and I should have been prepared to keep him in check, right?

So much for that.

He has no regard for danger; no inherent sense of fear. He runs away from me without looking back. And keeps running.

At 2, he really hated the stroller, despised being carried, and only wanted to walk. But I had my other 2 kids to keep track of (and often hold the hands of), too.

So we bought his "Puppy Backpack" at Target. (The Eddie Bauer one with the puppy attached to the harness) He LOVED it. Seriously. He could explore safely without me shouting at him to come back, to stop running, not to jump in the duck pond, etc.

As a parent of one child, I would have looked upon a mother using one with a critical eye. Now, with 3 kids, I don't judge. It's all good if the kid is safe and happy, IMO.


----------



## DandeCobb (Jul 20, 2006)

we have the same monkey harness as PP, my son loves it, he calls it his backpack. BUT, i notice you have a little boy also. It can be rather...odd....to hear your son say "i want my monkey! can i go play with my monkey??' you may want to consider a different animal


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I was going to suggest a good carrier, but you have that. If you have a runner and live in the city, then use one and who cares what people think. I know it might feel funny to you though. I saw some cheap at target that are more like connecting packs.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

I think they're a heck of a lot better than a kid getting run over or lost.

I've never had to use one for my kids (probably because they're so far apart) and I really don't like the look of them. But, if I see a kid wearing one, I just assume the parents are doing their best to keep the child safe.


----------



## Purple*Lotus (Nov 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alisteal* 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pt08/72122.jpg

Adorable LO









I think if you need it for safety, then who cares what other people think. You have to do what is best for your own situation


----------



## Unreal (Dec 15, 2002)

same story here....I used to say I would never have one....
then came ds3 who SPRINTS and is a SILENT hider.

Talk about a bad combination!!!

So he has the bear backpack harness
and loves it.

and yes...I feel awful having him on a leash, but better about that than him being lost or injured because he thought it would be funny to run as fast as he can.


----------



## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

mine was a runner, too, and he very nearly got...well, there were a couple of times when he ran full tilt into busy streets and...well. i can't even say it. it was scary.

he wore a leash. for a LONG time. no questions, no arguements. he wore the harness nearly all the time and i would just clip the leash on.

the only thing i would suggest to the OP is that if yours can undo those clips-- i notice the "monkey harness" has them in the front-- then get a harness that has the clips in the back, between the shoulder blades. i got ours at walmart for like $5, but that was 5 or 6 years ago. and i ended up getting a longer leash (yes, it was actually a dog leash) because the one that came with it wasn't very long. i bought a loooong one and could tie it shorter when i needed it to be. actually i kept it tied shorter and _lengthened_ it when i needed it to be longer.

i'd do anything to keep my ds safe, and i don't care what other people think-- i have a live child, and i might not have.

HTH!


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

I had one for DD, and I didn't have to use it often, but it came in handy when I did. I once had a lady comment (loudly enough for me to hear) that if people are going to treat their kids like dogs, they shouldn't bother to have them...while I was literally standing there with a 2 year old on a leash, a folded up stroller, a diaper bag, a purse, a cooler with our lunch, and our jackets/sweaters. I wanted to smack her, but my hands were full.

I have no problem with them, as long as they're used respectfully (i.e. not as a babysitter, and not to jerk little kids around). I'd much rather see a little one on a leash able to use his little legs than forced to be held or worn or sit in a stroller and unhappy.


----------



## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

We've used them on all three kids. I need to dig out the monkey for Esther again; she's back to trying to take off. Rob & I certainly taught our girls to hold our hands from the start, but sometimes they didn't want to. We used the harness to give them that little bit of freedom in places where there was little danger of bodily harm but I didn't feel comfortable with them possibly running off.

The monkey harness (there's a puppy one too) does have the snaps in the front, but they're not easy for a small child to undo.

All three girls have loved wearing them, especially Esther. I do let her wear the monkey, sans tail, around the house sometimes, & I've even put it on her backwards because she wanted to "hug" it while she walked.

I don't think they're demeaning at all, but I was never one who swore them off, either.


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I have a monkey harness for my dd, future Olympic sprinter. I hold her hand and she wears the backback so I have a backup if she makes a play for freedom. We practiced at home, pretty much everyone in my house has warn the harness and practiced walking next to and hand holding with everyone else. After they get used to standing next to you, you can still do the harness in case they tend to get distracted and run off without thinking.

I don't think I'd get one and just let the kid strain on the end of the harness (I know sometimes you're in an airport and your hands are full and your kids excited and suddenly your three year old is an 80 pound lab puppy draging you down the moving sidewalks), it's best to use it as a backup and practice a lot first.

Quote:

people are going to treat their kids like dogs, they shouldn't bother to have them
But she looked so cute in the store!

My boyfriend gave me this for Christmas!

This is practice until we can get a REAL puppy!

People who don't know me (and many who do) are wasting their time trying to "shame" me - I am unshameable!


----------



## acegmom (May 30, 2005)

You know, there's not much I like about Dr. Laura, but I once heard her say that people with 1 child - knew how all children were. People with 2 children - knew that all children were this way or that way. And people with 3 children (or more, I presume,) - were the only ones who knew the truth about kids.

Do what you need to do to enjoy your child. If one needs "accomodations" - use them. You and ALL of your children benefit. I had 2 well-behaved, socially delightful girls, and was sure that I had this parenting thing down. And then I had Evan. Challenging? To say the least. But a joy and a total delight? Absolutely. The terror he was at 18 months has grown into the delightful young man he is at 13.

I think all the caring and thoughtful mamas here on MDC have the right ideas. And good intentions. Truly, if you go with what your gut and your heart tells you, you are always doing the right thing.

Jill H.

(lucky mom to Amelia 18, Camille 16, Evan 13, and Gracie 11)


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

people with 1 child - knew how all children were. People with 2 children - knew that all children were this way or that way. And people with 3 children (or more, I presume,) - were the only ones who knew the truth about kids
I've heard this, too, and couldn't agree more!


----------



## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I think they are perfectly fine.


----------



## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

We just got that monkey harness!

I figured Id rather have a kid on a leash than a dead or lost one.

After dd1 calmly stayed by my side, held my hand and stopped at street corners, I now have dd2 who doesnt respond to my voice yet, darts into traffic and sprints far and fast away any chance she gets.

Shes rather enjoying her new freedom on the harness rather than being restrained in the stroller at all times we are out.


----------



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WilliamsMama* 
So, DH, my mom and ILs all think we should buy a harness for DS, who is now 15mo and getting to the stage that he's starting to run away from us- a lot. He wrests his little hand out of mine and is gone like a shot! He's already had some scary close calls (we live in NYC, so you can imagine).
Anyway, I'm sort of waffling back and forth on this one because I'm not sure what I think.
Really.
I've had a friend say that she thinks it makes the child look like it's being walked like a dog.
Another friend says who cares how it looks if it keeps him safe.
The argument is that it allows him the freedom to move around and walk, but keeps him from getting into dangerous situations. It wouldn't be used all the time (just in crowded areas, or in situations where he might run off and get hurt).
We use a mei tai, Ergo and our stroller, but he certainly wants to move about on his own and this 30+lber is getting harder to carry every day.
What are your thoughts?
(*Let's try to keep this civil!)

i have a 15 month old and can imagine if we lived in NYC i would already own one of these!


----------



## caiesmommy (Feb 26, 2007)

I LOVE MY HARNESS!!!
I thought they were the stupidest things and then mil told me about how bad dh was when he was little and then here comes my ds whos JUST AS BAD!!!
He's gone in no time, and especially being preggers now i need the harness
ours is a lil puppy that is a backpask too, he carries a lil snack inside and ds LOVES taking puppy for a walk, he actually asks to wear the thing everywhere and drags it throughout the house!


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I loved using the harness for a period between about 15 months and getting-to-2:

- I think the comment that first made me take it seriously was from my family doctor, who said it's hard to hold your hand up over your head that long. It is! Holding my son's hand for a long period of time while he was still soooo short suddenly looked like not quite so much fun.

- My son is the kind of kid who, when he's Really Into something, cannot hear. (DH is the same way.) He literally until about 2 yrs old could not hear me saying something like "stop!" if he was really really into whatever he was heading towards or away from. That said, the harness gave him some room to practice (not that going harnessless at the park didn't







)

- My son was a total explorer, and I felt the harness gave him a great way to get into the world around himself with both hands.

- At that age I really wanted to be out exploring and not confining our explorations only to places there was no risk

- And finally, although there is an ASTHETIC difference between a harness and a stroller harness, carseat harness, or a sling around the child (a great little on the fly harness), there is not really much functional difference - it is a device that is there to hold the child case of a dangerous situation. It's just that it "looks" like a dog collar. Well, I'm thinking seatbelts did too when they came in.

How it shook down practically? We used it in situations where we felt we needed it - walking the sidewalk along roads; at busy festivals and at the zoo when it was busy. I rarely ever "really used" it (at full tension) because mostly we walked together or I kept up. But the times we did - the mad dash, etc. - it was great. Very rare. But great.

My son is three next week (!!) and he now listens fine, holds hands with style, and we haven't used the harness in about a year (although we might if we go somewhere absolutely crazy). He's developed all the skills the other kids have - possibly more than some kids that are in strollers a LOT, although that is probably not a fair statement.

We used one that was a full chest one with two detachable straps, and if he tripped on a really poor surface, it was possible to use the harness to keep him up. I'm not a huge fan of the wrist ones; I wouldn't like the force on one arm like that (just because if you DO happen to have to use it that way, the child will probably spin or fall over).


----------



## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

Depends on how they are being used. Just a few months ago, I made a bracelet type thing for my 2yo dd to wear. It's soft, fun colors and has a tag on it with her and my information incase we get seperated. I can also attatch a "teather" to the cuff and then to my belt loop. I use it when I know she's going to want to walk and when their might be lots of people. I keep the cuff on her the whole time, but I only connect us when she isn't wanting to hold my hand or stay close by me. I like this set up for us as I feel it gives her the freedom to explore, yet keeps her safe, and I feel it's lighter weight than wearing the pack, more respectful of not looking like she's on a leash and it doesn't feel like I'm walking like a dog.


__
https://flic.kr/p/2511372529

I think they definately have a safe/good purpose as long as it's not being overused/abused. I try not to judge when I see someone wearing one as I know they are trying to keep them safe. I was driving one day and I saw a young child on one of the mentioned harnesses walking on the sidewalk with 2 adults. The child was walking well out infront of them and it looked like they were "walking" her instead of teaching her to stay with them and use it from a safety standpoint.

I think that the pp was right on when they mentioned teaching good handholding and staying close from a young age, but sometimes it depends on the personality of the child and the circumstances. From what you have described, it seems you already know your answer







.


----------



## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!

Hmm.

My guess is that you have a more compliant child who prefers to stay with you!

My first is/was like that. Oh, she's full of energy & tests her boundaries... but she has ALWAYS held hands... she knows what my expectations are, and adhering to those matters in her understanding of & comfort zone of life. She doesn't run away & she likes to please her parents.

My son on the otherhand, has NEVER held hands. He too understands our expectations, but prefers to really push the limits of those expectations, and _his_ comfort zone is being on the outer edges & limits of every place he is & every person he's with. Pleasing others isn't as high on his list as accomplishing a goal he's set out to reach.

He will (and does) run without looking back.

Now, so far, I have not purchased a backpack or leash... but I have strongly considered it, as he will not sit in a stroller, and the only carrier (I have a zillion) in which he will willingly sit for any period of time is the ergo, which I am comfortable wearing... but I am not his only care giver. And the ergo isn't always conveniently availble or usable in every situation.

Things like a harness for a child were created out of need. I do believe they can be abused, like any thing for children - pacifiers, strollers, babyseats, etc. But there is a place for their use.


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

I always felt like I was "walking" my son too, but he couldn't stay close to me, and he needed to explore. So we just did it and ignored the stares and sideways glances. He was safe and happy at the same time.


----------



## paakbaak (Jan 24, 2007)

i never liked them and lived in a very safe town in spain...so never thought about getting one.

we are now back home, mexico, and my mom is terrified to walk with my 2.5yo on the street. so she got one. but it´s great cuz he wears it on his waist (has a little pocket where he puts flowers and rocks and brings them back to me!) and my mother wears another one around her waist. they are connected waist-to-waist!
great cuz it doesn´t seem like she´s "walking" him!


----------



## cyndimo (Jul 20, 2005)

I was also against them, but gave in to purchase one before a big trip on the insistance of my DP. I knew we would be spending a lot of time in an airport to and from the vacation, as well as museums, etc when we were away.
It has been great for us! (We got the Target-Eddie Bauer teddy bear one... bought 2nd hand cause I was so opposed and wanted to spend as little $ on it as I could.) DS loves his bear! Some of the comments I've heard in the world and on MDC are that it's like child-proofing the world and as GuildJenn points out, that it can be uncomfortable to have your hand up in the air for long periods of time.
We are using it a lot less now, but I'm glad to have it for when we go to the fair or to crowded places!
I say, get it, use it when you need to, still teach your DC to hold hands and give him plenty of time to run unteathered. It's so much more fun than shouting yourself hoarse with lots of "no" and "stop"!
- Cyndi


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

I was actually preparing to write my thank you note to the person who DID invent them!









Seriously, though. I don't need them on a daily basis. But when we went to Disney, if they weren't in a stroller, they were on a leash. We got the ones that connect at the wrist.

Best $3.99 I ever spent.


----------



## TxMominCT (Nov 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337* 
I always felt like I was "walking" my son too, but he couldn't stay close to me, and he needed to explore. So we just did it and ignored the stares and sideways glances. He was safe and happy at the same time.

This is soo funny to me!! I always felt as if *I* was the one being walked!! She would run around, and I'd follow! (we only really use it in the airport, or occasionally in other such crowded places) I did get some nasty comments and glances. I was very frustrated. Riding on an airplane in your Mom's lap when you are used to running and playing is torture! The best thing I could do is to allow her to safely run around and play. It wouldn't be safe to let her run in the airport without something, and she was sick of me holding her, so the Mei Tei is out, and sick of sitting so stroller won't work either!! I guess I could imagine that these could really get abused, like anything else, but come on, every kid is different. If you need to keep closer tabs on the kid while in crowded places, and can't wear them or they are resistant to being worn because they are big enough to walk, then go for it! The fact that you are questioning it makes me think you won't abuse it. When we went to NYC for a day trip, my SIL used one on my 4 year old niece! (I thought she was a little old for it, but it did allow her to explore and be safe in a very unfamilliar place for them, they had never been to the city before, so it was scary for them!)


----------



## textbookcase (May 31, 2007)

I don't have a need for one now but if I had a crazy runner I wouldn't be opposed to them.


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

If you do a search here on this topic, you will find countless threads on the subject. I know I've put in more than my fair share of two cents. Long story short, I currently have two kids (as a foster mom, this varies). One who benefits from her monkey backpack (and LOVES it...she wears it around the house with the monkey tail tucked into the backpack), and one who does not need it.


----------



## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 

Quote:

people are going to treat their kids like dogs, they shouldn't bother to have them
But she looked so cute in the store!

My boyfriend gave me this for Christmas!

This is practice until we can get a REAL puppy!










:

I think sometimes people who are judgemental like that go on to have high maintenance kids because so many people wish them on them.


----------



## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
Hmm.

My guess is that you have a more compliant child who prefers to stay with you!

very opposing opinions, both very diplomatically said. thank you both!







:

as i said-- having had a VERY wild child who would run at every opportunity, i am VERY glad they were invented-- and if they hadn't been, i would have improvised









i have always envied the moms of more compliant children. i ended up stopping going to playdates and playgroups that met at unfenced playgrounds, because it was more work for me to shadow my child than i was if we'd stayed home, which was fenced and totally childproofed. my ds is 7.5 now, and hasn't run off in *years* (thank the gods) but he is still *highly* impulsive (adhd) and i do feel that i have to keep a closer eye on him in some public situations than i would with a different kind of child.
but still. i am grateful grateful grateful for leashes-- they allowed ds to have a limited independence and me to have peace of mind! and i'm SO SO SO glad he's stopped running away! ~wipes brow~


----------



## Daniel's Kitty (Nov 18, 2006)

If ds2 had been my first I wouldn't have seen the use for one. He loves to hold hands while walking.

But ds1 is the type that just has to know what is around the corner, over the hill, through the doorway. We used one when he was younger, he thinks it is fun to wear now. We have been working a lot on walking in parking lots. The song "The Bear went over the Mountain" used to play in my head watching him explore.


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kangaroomum25* 







:

I think sometimes people who are judgemental like that go on to have high maintenance kids because so many people wish them on them.


----------



## Kenziesmom (Mar 10, 2005)

I know a lot of people think they're evil...but, when you have a runner that has no sense of fear...it's a necessary evil I guess! I have one for 3 yo ds, haven't actually used it yet, but in a large crowd or really busy place...I know its in the trunk!!!!!


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

I've never had a problem with them. I have two kids and haven't needed one. But the younger kid just started walking, so who knows. I did see this week, however, the reason why people don't like them. I was at an outlet mall with my kids and there was an older man, definitely a grandpa with his granddaughter using a back pack harness. But he was treating it like a leash and behaving like he was out walking a dog. Tugging on it to get her to go where he wanted her to go and such while mom and grandma were in another store shopping.


----------



## dex_millie (Oct 19, 2006)

I don't give 2 squats of piss what people think when it comes to what I believe to be safest. I rather a harness on my child than not being able to find him because I blinked my eye at the wrong time. When I was on my class trip we was at a theme park where our sponser had her grandchild and he ended up missing! We searched high and low for him, we finally did find him in a play area. Give me the harness if this can be avoided. Yes, we should ALWAYS keep them close to us, but sometimes things happen, especiallly in crowds. I would more use it in crowded places than simple places but to each their own.

Right now I am the hippy/weird one in the family because I choose to not do things they did or believe it should be done.


----------



## Kenziesmom (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dex_millie* 
I don't give 2 squats of piss what people think when it comes to what I believe to be safest. I rather a harness on my child than not being able to find him because I blinked my eye at the wrong time. When I was on my class trip we was at a theme park where our sponser had her grandchild and he ended up missing! We searched high and low for him, we finally did find him in a play area. Give me the harness if this can be avoided. Yes, we should ALWAYS keep them close to us, but sometimes things happen, especiallly in crowds. I would more use it in crowded places than simple places but to each their own.

Right now I am the hippy/weird one in the family because I choose to not do things they did or believe it should be done.

I don't give 2 squats of piss.....I love that one!!!! hahaha!!


----------



## textbookcase (May 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kenziesmom* 
I don't give 2 squats of piss.....I love that one!!!! hahaha!!

haha me too


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

I have no use for one but I wouldn't be opposed to using one if I had a child that like to take off but didn't like to be worn.

How come strapping your child into a chair with wheels is socially acceptable but strapping your child to your wrist is evil?


----------



## MamaPyratekk (Jun 22, 2008)

I currently haven't used one, but if my next baby is as hyper active as my son then I'm considering it for her. I always hated seeing children in them and said that it looked like they were walking a dog, but then after having a toddler who will go completely limp if you try to hold his hand in a store and then once you try to pick him up he'll dart away from you as fast as he can....well, now they don't seem all that bad. I think that as long as you're still engaging your child and not just ignoring them because "oh, they're on the leash so I know they're not getting into anything" then it's fine.

Quick story, that I think was funny. When we were on our Honeymoon we went to the Animal Kingdom at Disney. They had this little motorized tree that was talking to people as they went into the park. A mother had her son in a harness (and was doing the ignoring thing) and the tree started saying "ma'am...ma'am...excuse me, ma'am?" As she walked away it said, "Ma'am is that your seeing eye child?"

I thought it was pretty funny personally.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

In June, 2005, I had an active 2 year old dd, and a large pregnant belly. I couldn't run fast enough to catch up with her, and I certainly couldn't wear her. A stroller was also problematic, as she could get out and run very quickly. Since I didn't want dd to spend her whole summer cooped up inside, I bought a harness. We used that to go for walks and such. A few weeks later, I had a brand new c-section incision, so I continued to use the harness for the rest of the summer (babywearing doesn't work so well after surgery).

We didn't "need" it - I could have just kept dd home all summer - but I'm glad we got it. If other people think my child looks like a dog, because he/she has a harness, I see that as their issue, not mine or my child's.


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Thanks everyone for responding to this thread (I'm the OP). I've been leaning toward getting one and not giving a toss what other people think. I actually think it gives the child much more freedom and keeps them safe at the same time.








A few years back , a mother had her toddler by her side and a baby in a carriage on the subway. The doors to the train opened and before the mother knew it the toddler darted into the train car and the doors closed! The train took off with the toddler in it. Luckily, a woman on her way to work grabbed the toddler and brought her to the next station safely.
That's the kind of thing I'm afraid of!


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
I have no use for one but I wouldn't be opposed to using one if I had a child that like to take off but didn't like to be worn.

How come strapping your child into a chair with wheels is socially acceptable but strapping your child to your wrist is evil?

















:


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
Hmm.

My guess is that you have a more compliant child who prefers to stay with you!

My first is/was like that. Oh, she's full of energy & tests her boundaries... but she has ALWAYS held hands... she knows what my expectations are, and adhering to those matters in her understanding of & comfort zone of life. She doesn't run away & she likes to please her parents.

My son on the otherhand, has NEVER held hands. He too understands our expectations, but prefers to really push the limits of those expectations, and _his_ comfort zone is being on the outer edges & limits of every place he is & every person he's with. Pleasing others isn't as high on his list as accomplishing a goal he's set out to reach.

He will (and does) run without looking back.

Now, so far, I have not purchased a backpack or leash... but I have strongly considered it, as he will not sit in a stroller, and the only carrier (I have a zillion) in which he will willingly sit for any period of time is the ergo, which I am comfortable wearing... but I am not his only care giver. And the ergo isn't always conveniently availble or usable in every situation.

Things like a harness for a child were created out of need. I do believe they can be abused, like any thing for children - pacifiers, strollers, babyseats, etc. But there is a place for their use.


well, my ds is only 12 months and not quite walking yet so i haven't had to even consider it for personal reasons; however, i am a preschool teacher and have been in charge of taking upwards of six kids (randomly aged 2-5) on walks around our neighborhood. I do need to give lots of reminders that we stop at every drive way and check for cars, but i've never had a kid just up and take off! We go over the safety rules before each walk (and i usually make it fun like, "If we see a big monkey in the middle of the street juggling candy and it wants us to come in the road should we do that?" They all laugh and say "noooo" but then one of htem will say "we shoudl NEVER go in the street" in a serious voice and all the kids agree.

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
well, my ds is only 12 months and not quite walking yet so i haven't had to even consider it for personal reasons; however, i am a preschool teacher and have been in charge of taking upwards of six kids (randomly aged 2-5) on walks around our neighborhood. I do need to give lots of reminders that we stop at every drive way and check for cars, but i've never had a kid just up and take off! We go over the safety rules before each walk (and i usually make it fun like, "If we see a big monkey in the middle of the street juggling candy and it wants us to come in the road should we do that?" They all laugh and say "noooo" but then one of htem will say "we shoudl NEVER go in the street" in a serious voice and all the kids agree.

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

I was also a preschool teacher, have worked with a variety of ages, and have a degree in Early Childhood Education. I never had trouble keeping children safe or following me when we went places. In fact people use to comment on how amazing it was that I had such well behaved groups of children. I was sure that I would have no trouble handling my own children since I already knew what to do. And then I gave birth to Lilly. Let me just say that the last 2 years have been very, very humbling.







I can talk to her about safety until I'm blue in the face and she just doesn't get it. If I put her in a stroller she cries, screams and wiggles her way out. If I try to hold her hand she can jerk away in no time, plus I think it looks very uncomfortable to hold your arm up in the air for an extended amount of time. Wearing her isn't an option, so we have a doggie backpack harness. She is free to roam without having to hold my hand and going shopping with her is much more pleasant and safe. They are the best things ever invented IMO.

As for the mall comment, today we went and forgot the harness and she got away from me. She was out the store door and almost about to tumble down the escalator before my dh caught her. Yes I talked to her about staying with me and how she could have gotten hurt, but five minutes later she was trying to escape again. Talking does nothing for her, nothing at all. Maybe as she ages it will, but at this point she just isn't going to walk nicely beside me no matter how many times I remind her.


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

Do you assume that everyone who uses a leash _doesn't_ talk to their kids about safety? I dunno...I think if it were that simple, there wouldn't be a market for leashes and safety devices. People wouldn't need to childproof their houses, because all they'd have to do is explain safety rules to their toddlers, and then everything would be perfect.

Kids who are under 3 years old can know all of the safety rules in the world, but it doesn't mean that they have the impulse control to always follow the rules, especially when they are excited or overstimulated.


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Also, IME, kids tend to follow the rules better when they're in a pack; they also tend to behave better when they're with people other than their own parents. A kid who follows a rule for their preschool teacher isn't necessarily going to follow the rule when they're with their mom. Kids are more comfortable around their parents, and more likely to test boundaries.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

My kid has always listen to the ladies at church or other kids mothers more easily than his own mother. It's just the way kids are at times. I imagine that it would be the same with teachers.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

My 17 month old son is a runner. He has no fear of strangers, water, heights (he's a climber.) If my husband or mother can't come with us somewhere (so that he has one-on-one care) then he has a harness on. It's a life saver for both of us. My son can climb out of the 5 point harness on his stroller (don't ask me how!) and if for some reason he can't get out, he screams. Not pleasent for anyone, so the harness lets us get out.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

I talk to my son about staying near, but he's 17 months old and doesn't give a damn. And my son is fast (way faster than his 3 year old sister who is not a runner) and he'll easily go 400 yards in front of me with not looking back (we tested it in a nearly empty mall when he was around 13 months old.) Add in all the things he could get injured on (the escalator for example) and you have the reason he's harnessed.

PS, my first never ran away. In fact she loved the stroller and loved staying close to me if she were walking. MUCH EASIER!


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill.











Famous last words ....

I'm pretty sure I said the same thing when my son was about your little one's age. Then he became a runner, who couldn't HEAR me above the excited thoughts in his head that kept saying, "RUN! RUN! RUN!" while I was saying, "STOP! STOP! STOP!"










I'm pretty sure I got ALL my gray hair the day he twisted his hand out of mine outside the very busy post office and darted in between DRIVING cars to get to our minivan while I tried to chase him and maneuver the stroller with my DD in it through the narrow spaces in between the cars so I could get him.

Yeah. It was the worst moment of my life. So I avoided trips like that for a long time afterwards. The memory of me SOBBING in the post office parking lot as I alternately hugged him and yelled at him was just too much to bear. I didn't get a harness at that point. After all, I *should* be able to control him, right???? LOL!

Well, when we planned our Disney trip, I had nightmares in the weeks leading up to our vacation -- I knew if I didn't have a way of attaching him to me, I'd lose him forever in a crowd of 10,000 people. And putting him in a hot stroller for hours on end while we walked the parks seemed more cruel to me than having him on a leash. Besides, at 3 years old, he's perfectly capable of escaping out of the stroller -- he knows how to unstrap himself. So the stroller thing was an ineffective solution to my problem anyway.

Talk all you want about "overkill" -- I'd rather go on overkill than be too lax and never see my son again. Thank you very much.







:


----------



## Disco Infiltrator (Jul 28, 2008)

I personally am philosophically opposed to using a leash and harness. I feel it creates an imbalance of power and the illusion of freedom. I don't like the message of control it sends because I feel my job as parent is to shepherd, not control.

We have worked very hard to provide a lot of freedom to our 16 month old son, meaning we have done minimal baby proofing and let him explore as much as is safe. We save the limits for the really important stuff and relax on stuff that really isn't that big of a deal.

Our LO is very impulsive. He doesn't listen, he's 100% non-compliant and going 100 mph all of the time. We reinforce over and over that we hold hands on the sidewalk, near the street and in parking lots. We use a carrier and a stroller when needed. DS was worn full-time until age one but for some reason he LOVES his stroller. We pick him up when he can't hold mommy and mamas hands. So far this is working. I'm crossing fingers that we'll be able to get through this impulsive period without what for me would be the last resort.

None of this means that I'm less concerned for the safety of our son. I'm just deeply devoted to keeping him safe while allowing him to explore and experience the world as much as he can on his own terms. I feel this is part of my job, to usher him toward independence and to always respect his place in our family as well as his right to a voice. I don't feel it would be right for me to place a boundary like a harness on a little boy whose world has very few physical boundaries.

BUT if he becomes too difficult or implants himself firmly in toddler opposition - LEASH.


----------



## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

We use a carrier and a stroller when needed.
That's great. My child will and always has bucked, screamed, and fought both carrier and stroller. To me, it is far better to use a harness, which she does not mind, than a carrier or stroller, which she hates, because people use harnesses on dogs. Like I said before, it's not like I have her straining at the end of a retractable leash, she's holding my hand and we are both attached to the harness because sooner or later, she might (and almost certainly will) bolt. She's a MILLION times better than she was as a new runner and I would only use the harness now if we were going someplace especially crowded and exciting (aquarium, airport, etc).

Quote:

I feel it creates an imbalance of power and the illusion of freedom. I don't like the message of control it sends because I feel my job as parent is to shepherd, not control.
This perspective is hard for me to understand. I am older and I've been here longer. I have more experience, better impulse control, and better judgment. I SHOULD be the more responsible one in this situation.

Maybe the way most people use a harness is different from the way a lot of people THINK they're being used. Most of us are still trying to hold hands, have the child walk close, and talk about safety with the harness as a BACK UP in case things get hectic.


----------



## knowerofnada (Dec 4, 2006)

Before becoming a mother, I thought they were evil.

Now that I am a mother, I don't have one myself because I haven't had a terrific need, but I can TOTALLY understand and appeciate the need for one. And if I ever do use one, I won't feel any shame in using one.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

Jamie Bulger. Google him.







:


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

My daughter walked at 8 mo and was a runner from 10 mo of age (yes, a RUNNER). We lived in an apt in a major city and used elevators several times a day, subway stations with no elevators so we couldn't keep dd safely in a stroller at rush hour, super busy streets with crazy drivers, the works. It was a loong couple of years until she was old enough to understand a safety rule. I used to write my cell number on her arm in indelible ink in case she got away.

An auntie picked her up from daycare for me once and my 2 yr old dd darted ahead of her into the elevator and the door shut with her in the elevator alone....fortunately, she stayed on the elevator until Auntie could have the security guard bring it down to the main floor. Oh the safety near-misses we had! The harness was one of several tools and strategies we used to keep her safe, along with slings, a stroller, and very attentive parenting.

She escaped in a mall when I was heavily pg and unable to run after her and was found a few min later in the parking lot, looking for mommy's car. A nice stranger brought her to the mall security before she got hit by a car, thank God. We never went without a harness or a second adult to pay full attn. for a long time after that.

I now run a home childcare and I have noticed what other posters have said -- other people's children are more compliant and more likely to stay safely with me than my own when we are on outings. (I guess my own dd was an exception to this when my sister picked her up that day!)

I have looked after a couple dozen children over the years, and almost the only ones who will wander away from me on the way to the park or whatever have been my own dd or my younger son. (My middle child is the staying-with-mommy sort







and the only one that I really like to go shopping with, consequently.)

The only exceptions were two young siblings with FASD who would run away from me on the sidewalk to run into the street, try to get into people's yards where there were dogs that looked cute, etc. They would have looked like normal preschoolers to others but had *no* impulse control, not even close to what you'd expect of the average three-yr-old. You never know when special needs may be involved in the use of harnesses -- I had a reduced- size group because of their special needs, but couldn't have made it safely to the playground with them without at least one of them wearing her "backpack".

Usually with a group of children, I'd use a walking rope or wagon to get to the playground/library and back, but I have used a harness with my own youngest when out with a childcare group and would definitely consider using them with any childcare child who is a runner, or even any toddler under age 2. I will never make any apologies for using any safety tools I need to to get the children out and about in the neighborhood.

My personal feeling is that most children are a lot happier with a harness than with other safety tools. I've seen lots of children screaming strapped into a carseat or stroller when they don't want to be there, but I've never seen a child fighting a walking harness that way.

Personally, when I see a child on a walking harness or toddler leash, I see a happy child exploring his world and getting some exercise with an adult who cares enough to leave the car or stroller at home and try something a little different, a little more adventurous.

I know there are some who cringe at the sight of a toddler harness, but I just don't see anything bad about them.


----------



## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

I was one of the naysayers before the kid came as well. Then we were on our fourth airplane trip, and she was walking. Like toddlers walk, pole-position style. No straight lines, zigzagging, and the babe is tiny! So here we were in the airport between flights, I'm letting her run off some steam so the flight goes well, and I'm following her and have my eyes on her, and then BLAM, gone! (okay it was only for a half second). The heart attack I had at that moment prevented me from any type of looking at the gate to see what was up, getting a coffee, you get it?
So anyway, for the last flight (at 15 months) we bought the monkey. She loves the thing, wants to wear it around the house, calls it her "packpack", and this last flight was horrendous with delays, changes in airline, extended layovers, etc. She just can't handle being in the ergo for four hours straight. And she needs to run, and I need to look up now and again. So the last trip was blissful. She ran like crazy through the airport, and slept and played calmly on the plane. I expect that once she's a bit older we can discuss safety, but at this point she's just too little. We also used it at a fairgrounds by a beach (somebody loves water) during the trip, and it was delightful. Honestly, I had more parents ask me "where'd ya get it?" than look sideways at me. I wouldn't use it in a store or anything like that, since when we're there it's not imperative for her to run around, but I do understand those who might use it there.
I am curious though---to those mommas who are strongly against it, what would you do in the busy airport situation if you were travelling alone with your babe, and babe was under 18 mo? (any ideas help!)


----------



## CindyCindy (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

This is my problem with them. Mostly I see parents using them because they don't WANT to pay attention to their children. The parents I see use them are just walking their child and the child is pulling on it, or laying on the floor pitching a fit while the mom is literally trying to pull the child off the floor with the leash. It is those moments that have really made me look down on leashes.


----------



## MLinPDX (Jun 22, 2006)

I've never really used one but I did buy one when my older DD could run and the two of us were travelling a lot. She tried it on at home, and loved it, wanted to wear it down the sidewalk and pretend to be a dog. I found that too embarassing. But she turned out to be the hold my hand and stay near mommy type so we never really used it. I always took it along though, just in case, and it provides nice peace of mind.

DD2, on the other hand, looks like she might be a runner when she figures out how. So far she just walks away fast and I can catch her but she could soon outpace me, especially if DD1 is with us also. Unfortunately she wants nothing to do with the harness I have, I can't even get it on her without her squirming away. Maybe I'll need to get one of the cute animal ones, instead of the utilitarian blue thing I do have.


----------



## Satori (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

You are obviously NOT the mother of a runner. Shall I recount the number of times I've had a child run like a bat out of hell though a very busy mall and think it was funny as hell? or how about the times they run for the mall doors to play frogger in the parking lot? or even better to them, when they run then while your searching frantically for them they walk off with a stranger for god knows where and you've had to alert security for a missing child? Unless you have a child who is a runner then perhaps giving advice against a leash is a lot like a catholic priest giving sex technique lessons.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
How come strapping your child into a chair with wheels is socially acceptable but strapping your child to your wrist is evil?









I know. It's so weird. I don't get it.

Of course, mainstreamers who think harnesses are evil would have looked approvingly at me if I'd had my kids in seats on wheels.

APers who think harnesses are evil wuold have looked approvingly at me if I'd had my kids in carriers.

Instead, they walked on the legs that God gave them, very happily, wearing a harness, with their hands free to touch things rather than one hand held above their heads for hours on end holding hands with me.

Fortunately I only ever, after three kids who used the harness, had two rude comments. I did have tens of positive ones, though, so thankfully most people have common sense.

As for who was 'walking' who, it would depend on where we were going and what we were doing. The child has far more say in the matter than if he's in a stroller or carrier, and can lead or follow. My kids took me for walks all the time - this is one of my most pleasant memories of their toddler years, them on the harness happily taking me around the streets and to the park, stopping to pick flowers, look at squirrels, chat to neighbours, without having to hold my hand or sit in a stroller, or even get squashed by a car.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
well, my ds is only 12 months and not quite walking yet so i haven't had to even consider it for personal reasons; however, i am a preschool teacher and have been in charge of taking upwards of six kids (randomly aged 2-5) on walks around our neighborhood. I do need to give lots of reminders that we stop at every drive way and check for cars, but i've never had a kid just up and take off! We go over the safety rules before each walk (and i usually make it fun like, "If we see a big monkey in the middle of the street juggling candy and it wants us to come in the road should we do that?" They all laugh and say "noooo" but then one of htem will say "we shoudl NEVER go in the street" in a serious voice and all the kids agree.

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

I had to smile at this. I was a teacher too. I could take a large group of preschoolers out and never had a dangerous incident.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

You are also talking of kids aged 2-5. It's not that age group that ime are the ones that you might want to use a harness on. With my kids it was the early walking stage - 12 -24 months. If you have a livewire, that's the age when all the chats in the world about monkeys in the street are going to go right over their heads. And when a car runs over them, they are dead, and you can't go back and think, hey, maybe a toddler knows the rules, but has no impulse control.

Similarly, I could have 500 kids sitting in a hall hanging on my every word when I was a teacher. Nowadays I can struggle to get my own three to listen to one word I say.









As for the mall, try googling 'Jamie Bulger' to see how far a baby can get.









You know, when I went out with my toddlers I didn't want to have to make every moment of our outing a 'teaching moment' about safety. I wanted to stop and look at things, chat, sing, listen, pick dandilions and daisies. I'm sure my kids loved the fact that we spent hours in the neighbourhood doing this, rather than having to constantly practice listening to 'stop' and showing me how they could stop when I told them. I had friends who were practicing this stuff at the point when I was just out and about with my kids with no worries.

Plus, those strategies get old after a while, and certainly aren't a great deal of fun when you're 9 months pregnant or carrying a newborn around.

The great thing about a harness is that you can put it on, then forget you have it. You can walk around with your child doing your usual routine, and it's there if it's needed, but otherwise, both of you completely forget about it.

In a day and age of sendentary children, I'd far rather mine were using their legs than a carrier or stroller. All three of mine hated the stroller and turned out to be great walkers. We ditched the stroller years before most of our friends - if we ever used one it was used to carry stuff, not kids, because my kids were too busy walking!


----------



## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

For our family - I wouldnt say they are evil - but I do not like them.
We have never had to use one. I feel that working with the child is, although more work, much more effective and better in the long run.
We had to work with our son on this - he wasnt born perfect or 'easy'







lol... It meant going to quite parks or quite stores (our favourite was the camping store - no one is in there on a Sunday, tents to run around in up everywhere, etc... a very good place to practice!)...where we could simply just practice the important of staying near, not running into the road, staying where I could see him, etc.
For us, a 'harness' would mean 'I do not trust you' - and trust and how we choose to parent (we live consensually - at least we try our best!!! hehe) go hand in hand.
I have been tempted a few times when DS started to walk to buy a harness. During those times though, it would have been saying 'I do not trust you - so I will restrain you'. In the end, I couldnt buy one because of this and decided to work with my DS instead on it. Also, as he has SPD (sensory issues) in a hypersensitive way, I know he would have never let me put one of those things on him. Putting our clothes on in the morning before we go out is an ordeal in itself as it is. I have also never been able to do the straps up on him when he was in the pushchair so it would have been a waste of money. I think I had no choice but to work with him on it - so I know it can be done. I am also saying here, as people who are 'for' harnesses like to point out, that no, I also never and do not find it acceptable to strap a child in a pushchair or restrain them in a sling either. I have never done this and never intend to. If my son goes in his pushchair or when he was in the sling, it was also by choice, and as I have said above, he was never 'strapped/harnessed' in either.
Yes - I ask him to hold my hand when we cross the road (this is the _only_ time I do ask him to hold my hand), or at least stay next to me. This has nothing to do with not trusting him though. Whether or not he understands, this is because I have explained to him that a car coming is more likely to see me first before him so if he is at least right next to me, they are less likely to hit him, a small child that is harder to see, if they saw me first.
Nothing is black&white...so I can see where maybe they would be needed in some cases - though on the whole, I feel they are far overused and misused (I have yet to see them being used in a learning manner at all - I have yet to see them being used in any other way than a controlling restraining way where the child is often pulled in this direction and that and dragged behind almost like a dog - so I can also see why people who question them do so!...They are not portrayed very positively). DS has a speical need (though self diagnosed - SPD and PDD-NOS), though, no - its not what I feel is 'severe' and he is also not a twin...I also do not, or will not have a small age gap between any children I may have. So for us and our family, there is no need for one. And no, we also do not 'babyproof' the house.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Until this thread, I had never even thought about how uncomfortable it must be for a kid to hold their hand over their head for long periods of time.







I think I'll look into getting one for ds, as he is a runner. He'll point to the road and say "no, no, no" while wagging his finger, and then run towards it
















I can't see it getting any easier for awhile as he'll be getting even better at running while I'll be getting increasingly more pregnant and waddly


----------



## coco4cloth (Feb 10, 2005)

I'd rather my kid look like a dog rather then bury them in the ground or not know where they are. Mine won't sit and wants to walk but takes off.

Preschool kids and your own are totally different. I've worked in many preschool settings.

I could talk to her until I was blue in the face about staying with me but she's 2! She wants to feel big like her brother and sister (which I am also trying to keep an eye on when we are out) I laugh because what someone said about the stroller is so true. How come that's ok? With the harness she is safe, learning , touching, and exploring none of which you can do strapped in a chair.

I've had natural birth 3 times, one homebirth, no circ. don't spank, breastfeed until at least 2 1/2, am a crazy nut about carseats, cosleep, the list goes on and on, but I guess if you want to consider me a bad mom for making sure my baby is safe then so be it. Think before you judge.


----------



## coco4cloth (Feb 10, 2005)

I also notice a lot of you who are so against them only have one child. More then one changes EVERYTHING,


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CindyCindy* 
This is my problem with them. *Mostly I see parents using them because they don't WANT to pay attention to their children.* The parents I see use them are just walking their child and the child is pulling on it, or laying on the floor pitching a fit while the mom is literally trying to pull the child off the floor with the leash. It is those moments that have really made me look down on leashes.


Yes, but that does not mean that all of us who have used leash/harness would do that.

My 9 yr old, who has Autism, was very strong as a young child and would wrench my arm badly, trying to run. So, I got a leash/harness and used it when needed. I did not care what others thought and still don't. I have a 3 yr old now, who is fairly compliant, but if he decided to become a runner, I would buy another leash/harness in a minute.

I also resent the implications of some that if one uses a leash, that they don't talk to their children about dangers and about how it is not right to run, etc. That is like my BIL, after watching me correct my son for running in Grandma's house, tell me that HIS children will be taught not to run and behave from a younger age. All in a very snotty tone of course. I told him, "You actually think that we don't teach our children not to run in the house? This is a young child. You have to tell them more than once."

Well, Karma has a funny way of making one eat their words sometimes. His daughter, now 2, does not always listen, and is a runner.


----------



## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

I have never used a harness, was never interested in strollers, did almost no babyproofing- except electric wires, didn't like wearing my kids (hey why don't slings get a bad rap for making kids look like kangaroos?)
I have an instinctive negative around harnesses but no judgement about others that use them. I also don't go to malls and rarely fly.
I cosleep and bf forever. I am more likely to worry about chemical in our food and the sort of emotional safety of my two. But that is partially my lifestyle in which actual dangers to the kids come primarily in the form of wildlife and black widows.


----------



## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I feel that working with the child is, although more work, much more effective and better in the long run
I think that if you had more than one child to parent every single day, you might find that your perspective changes on many levels. Everyone I know, including myself, that has had clear ideas of of how they were going to parent has had to eat their words on at least one occasion once that 2nd child was born. Once you get to that 3rd child, your whole parenting model has undergone so many changes. It's a process that comes from parenting multiple people all at the same time.

ETA- people who are occasionally using a tool to help keep their child safe may also believe that working with a child to learn boundaries and safe habits is important, too. one does not exclude the other. it simply becomes a time issue when there are more people involved. one mother cannot hold 3 different sets of hands, for example, without relying on one or more child to be 100% compliant. that's fine in a camping supply store- if a toddler has a lapse of impulse control and bolts, he doesn't get hit by a car or taken by a predator. but it can happen faster than you think in a crowded place with many distractions.


----------



## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!

you know, when i just just my oldest daughter, i would have said the same thing... and never would imagine i could ever want to own a harness/leash.

then i had dd#2. She's a runner... and more times then i can count she would run into the street... side streets, main routes, didn't matter... she was running. I bought a harness because her safety is more important then any image. Did i still hold her hand... yes. the "leash" was more or less so that she couldnt run off and get hit by a car.

Now i have a ds, which also loves to run off, though not as much as dd#2 did at this same age. We use it, but only in times we feel the need for extra measures (crowds, walking near main/busy roads).

I don't think the harness in itself is a terrible thing, what makes it terrible in the intent in which people use them


----------



## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I do need to give lots of reminders that we stop at every drive way and check for cars, but i've never had a kid just up and take off!

And you are lucky. I'd actually be concerned as a parent of one of those 6 kids that there was only one adult in charge around busy roads.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
We go over the safety rules before each walk (and i usually make it fun like, "If we see a big monkey in the middle of the street juggling candy and it wants us to come in the road should we do that?" They all laugh and say "noooo" but then one of htem will say "we shoudl NEVER go in the street" in a serious voice and all the kids agree.

Yes, we always talk about the rules wherever we go too. Kids agreeing is one thing, and doing is another. As I said, some children are more compliant than others. Some are more curious. Some are more energetic. Some are less concerned with pleasing teachers/parents, etc. than they are with completeing the task they have set out for themselves. Young children, particularly when there are more than one, and those who are high spirited, don't have impluse control. You can't always rely on "well, I TOLD you not to go in the road" as a form of certainty that they are safe around a road.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

It really depends on the child. OF COURSE you talk about the rules. Some children just run. And how far will a child go in the mall? A second child will typically go much further than a first, and a spirited curious child who isn't concerned with needing to "check in" with mom may go MUCH FARTHER than you're comfotable with - particularly if you have another child to carry, bags to carry, a stroller to navigate, AND/OR you're in a big crowd in which a small child can get QUICKLY lost.


----------



## ~*~MamaJava~*~ (Mar 7, 2004)

I don't mind them at all and if we lived in a big city ds1 would have been on one. However, I think it's really important to still work on teaching your little one to stay close to Mommy and make sure you develop a method for leash-free safe walking







I know that some kids love to run (trust me, I have 2 like that) but they certainly can learn that hand-holding is non-negotiable. When we shop I have 3 little people walking with me all holding the cart or stroller. They are not allowed to let go. When we get out of the car, they have to hold each other's hands. I used to have them put their hand on the car tire or my leg as I took the baby out. hth.


----------



## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I haven't read all the responses.

We have one but we have never used it. It was actually MIL who wanted it because she can't keep up with ds like dh and I can. So for me that seemed resonable, I wanted him to stay safe when I wasn't there.
I'm also open to using it in a crowded place but haven't done that yet.
I think the arguement that your treating your child like a dog is funny, yeah I agree it looks dog-like but why don't I want my child to be as safe as I would my dog?









It also takes you knowing your child. Not every child needs a harness. My ds hasn't had one on because I know how he acts and I trust him, with some children you can't trust them yet and you don't know which way they will dart.

I also think people overuse them. I can't imagine using one at the park...isn't that where you want your child to run?


----------



## sleepybear1 (Aug 17, 2008)

I think your family is lucky that you think about these matters. Seems to me that most things introduced and used in the context of immediate and long term kindness tend to be o-kay in the long run. Particularly if it lets a child reach the long term safely.


----------



## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!

My child ran away at the zoo yesterday. If a harness can prevent another parent from going through the heartbreaking terror I felt, I say for for it. I'm glad you would never have to use one.. .but then, I didn't think I would either...

Quote:

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)
Yeah... if only I had talked to her about it ... oh wait, we HAVE talked about this many times over a course of three years, she STILL ran away.


----------



## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alisteal* 
I have a runner. We have a harness.

Yes, me, too.

I don't think harnesses are bad, as long as they're used in appropriate situations.

I have a runner, and a child with sensory seeking behavior, who does not always listen. We sometimes use a harness for safety reasons. It works wonders.


----------



## MommyTorf (Nov 9, 2004)

I've always had dogs. I used to cringe when I saw kids on "leashes" at the mall, at Disney, at the Farmer's Market, etc. Leashes are for dogs, right?

I was 31 when I had my son and remember thinking "never!" about harnesses- this is a child, not a dog! Then my son turned 2, and all previous notions of wearing him, or walking together through the Farmer's Market were off. He is a runner, the kind that becomes deaf and doesn't look back. My MIL took him to the Zoo this summer (he's now 3), and I INSISTED that she use a harness- he's too fast for her and I was worried that he would make it into an enclosure and be eaten by a lion.







She bought the monkey harness from Target (I think made by Eddie Bauer) and he fell in love with it! He was proud to wear his "backpack" and have Grandma hold his "tail".

I've been working with him regarding staying together at the grocery store. I truly think that he just doesn't care. His desire to get to the thing that he wants overrrides everything else. So, I'll be the lady that you see at the mall in a few years with a 5yr old in a harness or crammed into a stroller to ensure his safety!







He's my one and only, and I'll do whatever I need to keep him safe.


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyTorf* 
I've always had dogs. I used to cringe when I saw kids on "leashes" at the mall, at Disney, at the Farmer's Market, etc. Leashes are for dogs, right?

I was 31 when I had my son and remember thinking "never!" about harnesses- this is a child, not a dog! Then my son turned 2, and all previous notions of wearing him, or walking together through the Farmer's Market were off. He is a runner, the kind that becomes deaf and doesn't look back. My MIL took him to the Zoo this summer (he's now 3), and I INSISTED that she use a harness- he's too fast for her and I was worried that he would make it into an enclosure and be eaten by a lion.







She bought the monkey harness from Target (I think made by Eddie Bauer) and he fell in love with it! He was proud to wear his "backpack" and have Grandma hold his "tail".

I've been working with him regarding staying together at the grocery store. I truly think that he just doesn't care. His desire to get to the thing that he wants overrrides everything else. So, I'll be the lady that you see at the mall in a few years with a 5yr old in a harness or crammed into a stroller to ensure his safety!







He's my one and only, and I'll do whatever I need to keep him safe.

I was lucky with my first, and I hope I'll be lucky with my second. If not, I will have her older brother around to help me chase her down.









But I see the same kids of "if you just parent right you won't have problems" sentiment for all kinds of thing. Kids who hit vs kids who don't, kids who are rough with their toys vs. kids who take care of their toys and kids who want to play with grandma's ceramic knick knacks vs. kids who only need to be told not to touch.


----------



## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But I see the same kids of "if you just parent right you won't have problems" sentiment for all kinds of thing.

Since having my little one, I've realized parents, or others, who have this mentality haven't met a certain challenge in life that presents this dilemma. For example, the people who've given us looks when my little one wears the back pack harness probably aren't aware of or have had kids of their own with major sensory seeking behaviors.










Or runners...


----------



## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But I see the same kids of "if you just parent right you won't have problems" sentiment for all kinds of thing. Kids who hit vs kids who don't, kids who are rough with their toys vs. kids who take care of their toys and kids who want to play with grandma's ceramic knick knacks vs. kids who only need to be told not to touch.

If you all only parented like me, you would never need to leash your child.










I have a mellow girl, and she's my only right now. I doubt I'll ever use one of these. But I don't care or judge if other parents use them responsibly. (I have definitely seen irresponsible use of these - pulling on kids, ignoring them, etc. but that's the parenting, not the harness).


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Disco Infiltrator* 
I personally am philosophically opposed to using a leash and harness. I feel it creates an imbalance of power and the illusion of freedom. I don't like the message of control it sends because I feel my job as parent is to shepherd, not control.

If it does become necessary, it may make you feel better to know that my experience (just speaking for me) was that the harness gave our toddler MORE control than he would have been able to have otherwise, especially in environments like the zoo on a busy day.

I really spent most of my time following him, but I didn't have to be constantly correcting him because I knew in case of danger, I had the other end of the rope.

ETA: That didn't mean we didn't have discussions and corrections, of course. But it didn't have to be the only thing we did all day which, with my son at that age, it would have been. As I said earlier, he's 3 and listens just fine (for his age) now.


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

I know there probably _are_ 18 month - 2 year olds out there who do what you "just talk about" but I have a feeling that another 6 months is going to provide you with a personal reality check into this statement.

It's not that they don't understand. It's that they don't have the impulse control. Talking about safety, practicing safety, all those things are important - and it is just as easy to do that with a harness-wearing child as it is with a carried child, stroller-ed child, or hand-held child.

The harness is not a substitute for these things. It's merely an added measure of safety for those moments when (in my son's case) glee and joy and the drive to explore overrode instruction.

Kids really do test limits and boundaries differently at home than they do at daycare or school - at some stages more, and at some stages less. Sometimes I really feel for teachers & ECEs who become parents without realizing that because it can really be a rude shock!


----------



## Twwly (Jan 30, 2007)

I never thought I would want one. But DS now refuses to hold hands on the street and in parking lots now and has started running away. He's not a very wild boy at all, and we have more horse & buggies that drive by our farm than cars, but I worry about him in town. We're trying to teach him to stay close to us, to hold hands. But he's not even two yet. If he wants to bolt, he bolts.

Both his young age and the fact that I've always got his little sister strapped on me and don't have the reflexes/range of motion that it takes to wrassle a runner make me want to get one.

I'm now Googling "child harness" in hopes of finding where to buy one of these contraptions.


----------



## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

You probably don't need any more input 5 pages later, but here's my two cents:

I used to think it was awful. Now I think it's fine to use them when needed to keep you child safe. I think some people over-use them, and, of course their use should NEVER take the place of speaking respectfully to your child and helping them to learn about safety.

My 18 month old does NOT like to hold my hand when she HAS to keep holding it...like near a street. We live in a tiny village and she isn't very often in a situation where she is required to hold hands for an extended period of time. It is, of course, sometimes not negotiable --next to the street, in a crowd, etc.-- and she must hold hands or be in the stroller or Ergo. If she doesn't get better about it, I could see myself resorting to a leash say at the fair or walking down a busy street.

Do what's best for your child. Model respectful behavior, and by all means do whatever it takes to make sure your lo sees his or her next birthday!


----------



## H & J's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't have one but am considering getting one for DS (DD was one of those great listener/hand holders







)

I am not a stroller fan. I rarely use them and when I do I feel bad for DS being strapped into it when I know he'd much rather be walking around with the rest of us. He loves to be on the move.

I really don't see why being strapped to a loving parent is bad but being strapped into a stroller is not a problem.


----------



## brightonwoman (Mar 27, 2007)

I went to a climbing store and bought mountain climbing webbing and MADE a harness that my wiggly guy couldnt' wriggle out of. Those ones that look like a backpack wouldn't do any good for him cuz he'd slip right out of them. This one went around his waist, over both shoulders, crossed in back, and had a strap under his crotch too. Each strap was adjustable and unbuckled (buckles in back where I could get them but he could not), so it was easy to undo to go potty without having to take off the whole thing... the webbing was strong enough that DH could pick him up by it and 'fly' him, which DS loved. DS also had some ownership in it because i let him pick the color of webbing.
Basically we just sat down with DS and explained that it was important for him to be close to us so that he'd be safe. We said that we either needed him to be holding hands all the time, or he could wear the harness which would keep him close enough but leave his hands free. He almost always chose the harness. Now he was older than 15m and could voice his opinions, but I suspect that most kids would have the same feeling--I'd rather look funny and be able to play than be restricted to a stroller or holding hands. I mean seriously, wouldnt' you?!

ETA--I had observed in DS behavior that I thought would be better off with a harness, but DH was very opposed to the idea...until the day 3yo DS ran off and tried to jump into bryce canyon. Then DH came straight to me and said can we please get a harness asap. Some kids are content to hang out close to parents, but some kids are not. You have to know your kids. But if your kid seems to call for that safety net, by all means give it to them. I would rather have an 'imbalance of power' and a 'kid on a leash' than have a dead son.


----------



## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

I used one for DD from about 18 months to 26 months or so. She was not verbal enough, or even old enough, to understand about safety. There is no way a child of that age has any understanding of their own mortality. We did babywear, we sometimes used a stroller, but she likes to walk and she likes to run when something catches her eye.

I saw one mom walking through the parking lot with infant bucket seat in one and the hand of her 3 year old in the other hand. Toddler jerked away and ran, and there she was trying to chase after him with a bucket seat.


----------



## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DandeCobb* 
we have the same monkey harness as PP, my son loves it, he calls it his backpack. BUT, i notice you have a little boy also. It can be rather...odd....to hear your son say "i want my monkey! can i go play with my monkey??' you may want to consider a different animal

















:


----------



## Shami (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
How come strapping your child into a chair with wheels is socially acceptable but strapping your child to your wrist is evil?









yeah...have you seen those little doggie strollers? I am assuming the dogs in those things are old or can't walk for some reason. I think it is sweet of pet owners to get those so their liile doggies can enjoy a walk.

I am all for those harnesses. More importantlly, it sounds like the kids love the freedom to walk instead of being strapped into a stroller. How about trying it and follow your kids' lead.


----------



## paradoxia13 (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
well, my ds is only 12 months and not quite walking yet so i haven't had to even consider it for personal reasons; however, i am a preschool teacher and have been in charge of taking upwards of six kids (randomly aged 2-5) on walks around our neighborhood. I do need to give lots of reminders that we stop at every drive way and check for cars, but i've never had a kid just up and take off! We go over the safety rules before each walk (and i usually make it fun like, "If we see a big monkey in the middle of the street juggling candy and it wants us to come in the road should we do that?" They all laugh and say "noooo" but then one of htem will say "we shoudl NEVER go in the street" in a serious voice and all the kids agree.

I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

Before my son was born I taught preschool for many years. And yup, I could keep a large group of kids all together, outside of the classroom, no problem.

But God help me, wrangling my one, stubborn, fast, adorable little guy is about as successful as trying to juggle a dozen angry wet cats. It just doesn't work.









We talk about safety all the time. We explain to him why running in the street/out the door etc. isn't safe. We tell him he needs to hold Mommy or Daddy's hand. And sure, he understands a lot, and is able to follow a lot of directions. But, when he is over stimulated and preoccupied with new shiny experiences, does he really understand why running out into traffic to chase a bird wouldn't be a good idea? Probably not. And at 19 months old, with no bad scary experiences to understand the concept of danger yet- does talking about safety even make sense to him yet? Probably not so much.

We have the monkey backpack leash. We don't use it a lot, but we do use it. I'd rather have my son on a leash, than have my son in the emergency room.

~heather


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I don't think that they are bad, I don't need to use one though, nor do I think DS2 would go for it anyway. He'd flip out for sure.


----------



## nccrunchymama (Dec 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *knowerofnada* 

Jamie Bulger. Google him.







:









This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me willing to tolerate any safety device, even if it brings dirty looks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 
But I don't care or judge if other parents use them responsibly. (I have definitely seen irresponsible use of these - pulling on kids, ignoring them, etc. but that's the parenting, not the harness).









: Any tool can be misused. It's not the tool's fault.

My almost 3yo dd is very cooperative, holds my hand without complaint, and is in general hesitant in new situations. So she's very unlikely to get separated from me. But I'll have another baby in about 2 months and if it becomes an issue, we'll get one. I'd rather deal with dirty looks than lose a child. It only takes a second for a child to be lost, stolen or injured. Safety can be taught, but most children don't learn it suddenly. There will be lapses, even in the most cooperative child. I don't want that one second lapse to happen to my child. You can certainly be respectful of your child while you're keeping him/her safe.


----------



## cyndimo (Jul 20, 2005)

This thread has generated a lot more negative feedback than I've seen on other similar threads here on MDC...
In any case, the times I've used our "leash", I've been running so fast with DS that I haven't been able to see any scowls or dirty looks!









DS is now 3 and we use it much, much less often, but a few weeks ago, we went to the county fair and didn't want DS getting in to visit the cows to quickly for us to stop him. And, today we went to the post office to mail my wedding invites - I needed to be able to talk to the agent and would not have been able to chase DS out the door when (when, not if) he darted as my hands were full and I was mid-sentence and transaction.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CindyCindy* 
This is my problem with them. Mostly I see parents using them because they don't WANT to pay attention to their children. The parents I see use them are just walking their child and the child is pulling on it, or laying on the floor pitching a fit while the mom is literally trying to pull the child off the floor with the leash. It is those moments that have really made me look down on leashes.

This line of logic is just silly to me... I mean, people hit their kids with belts but I still use one to hold my pants up, people wash their kids mouths out with soap but I still use soap on my DS's other body parts to get him clean, people force alphabet drills on 3yos but I still let my DS color with crayons, pencils and paper. Because some people misuse a "tool" does not mean that the tool is bad and should not be used.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think if you just talk with your children about staying with you, never running ahead etc. a leash is just overkill. I cringe when i see them at the mall (how far do you think your child is going to go in a mall?? kwim)

How about... out the store, 10 stores down, around the corner and into the elevator. Only because someone else pushed her hand in to stop the door because she wanted to get in did DS not manage to hit the door close button. Another time, he jagged left and down the escalator - I saw DS going down and saying "Hi Mommy!" If he'd passed an interesting store, he might have darted in before I could see where he was going. ( I really think that there are times that only the gold-medal winning 100m dash runner would be able to follow DS around the mall!) The mom above whose DD went looking for her car in the lot has lived one of my regular fears!


----------



## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

We used one for a couple months when we would go places where darting away could be dangerous (for example, at Costco, where people are pushing massive flats and carts and can't always see around or over them) around the time our daughter was two. She liked it and I got nothing but positive comments on it. When she was old enough to really understand she wasn't supposed to dart away, we packed the harness away. She doesn't seem too traumatized from it at all.


----------



## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

I have never had a problem with harnesses. Toddlers don't always understand dangers. They do understand impulse. Seems like a no-brainer - the opposition to harnesses seems to me silly. (So what if my daughter _did_ look like a puppy on a leash? Both my girls *LOVED* pretending to be puppies at that age.)

I am proud to say that I have not once lost my toddlers or had to drag them out of traffic.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I just saw one of these at home depot today and initially thought, what the heck, the store is empty, the child wasn't that young, and she had ONE child with her. I often go places with three, so it was hard to imagine how keeping up with one is hard. But I don't that child at all. For all I know her daughter really darts away all the time.







:

I always hear the bulgar story come up on these threads about "leashes." It is a horrifying story and just so so sad, and while I support parents using harnesses when they feel they need to, I can't see the connection. I'm guessing he wandered away, but the perpetrators were kids who probably could have had access to a child in many ways. Not that I don't worry about predators, though, I still do.

I find myself avoiding a lot of crowded places alone with my kids, or using the stroller/carrier and hand holding. It's not foolproof, but they don't run, so I would feel odd using one. I see it as a tool for someone who really needs help, but every once in a while I wonder if I should have one handy.


----------



## TefferTWH (May 13, 2008)

I don't think I was against them before I had my son, but I've definitely thought about it since. Luckily, he generally stays close and comes back easily when he moves away from me to look at things. We've worked hard at that together, and so far it's working. That said, when #2 comes along this fall, I'm not saying that I won't be looking for one at a Mom2Mom sale!

That said, I want to address those who think that a leash is what a lazy parent uses. I have horses and the way we teach them to lead is by teaching them gently to follow us and our movements. The halter (on the head) and the lead will do NOTHING if that 1200 pound animal decided she wants to go the opposite way I do. I can use the halter and lead to remind her to pay attention to me, but the real thing keeping her with me is the time I spent teaching her. I think it's the same with my kids; I teach them to stay close and can use a tool like a leash to remind them (or protect them) in case the concentration breaks. It's not force, it's just a tool.


----------



## Hippie Mama in MI (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't mean to single anyone out or pick a squabble with anyone here; everyone has different needs and priorities and that's just as it should be.

But as for myself, I wouldn't use a harness on my own child (my dh and I call them leashes). I am afraid that by confining him to the end of a lead, I would be confining him and thus sabotaging his learning and development. He can't explore and run free in a harness, and for my child it is very important to run free and take the world by storm.

It is also important to me that my son learns to behave in a safe and appropriate way without being restrained. In other words, I expect my son to behave. He is only two, and yes, it is a struggle to keep him happy and firmly beside me in public. I have to spend most of the trip talking to him, explaining things to him, pausing while he examines the new environment, etc. But for us, this is one of the main ways we have of teaching him.

True, a trip to the store almost invariably means at least one tantrum and watching Boo every instant. But I'm glad we do it without a harness. For us, it's the best choice.


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby* 
Do you assume that everyone who uses a leash _doesn't_ talk to their kids about safety? I dunno...I think if it were that simple, there wouldn't be a market for leashes and safety devices. People wouldn't need to childproof their houses, because all they'd have to do is explain safety rules to their toddlers, and then everything would be perfect.

Kids who are under 3 years old can know all of the safety rules in the world, but it doesn't mean that they have the impulse control to always follow the rules, especially when they are excited or overstimulated.

I don't assume anything about the people who use leashes, i'm basing my respone on the actual times i've seen people with leashes and it's only been a couple of times at the mall. There was also holloring at the child and pulling on the leash until the kid fell down when a man (i assume was the father) said, "there that's what you get then" and started laughing...

I guess i've just never seen one good experience with them. Also, before they were invented people did just fine....so i still stick with my original response







:


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Satori* 
You are obviously NOT the mother of a runner. Shall I recount the number of times I've had a child run like a bat out of hell though a very busy mall and think it was funny as hell? or how about the times they run for the mall doors to play frogger in the parking lot? or even better to them, when they run then while your searching frantically for them they walk off with a stranger for god knows where and you've had to alert security for a missing child? Unless you have a child who is a runner then perhaps giving advice against a leash is a lot like a catholic priest giving sex technique lessons.









wow...

if you read my full post you would see that i did say i don't even having a walking child yet, but have a background in early childhood, have been on many trips with many children, etc. etc.

Anyway, I still just see no reason for a leash and i don't think i should be compared to a catholic priest... huh?

The op wondered about different perspectives...i gave my honest opinion...

I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









pass the bean dip







:


----------



## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 

Anyway, I still just see no reason for a leash and i don't think i should be compared to a catholic priest... huh?

I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









You don't have a fast-moving kid yet. Therefore, no experience in being a parent of a fast-moving child. Like a celibate priest would not have experience in teaching positions for sex. No experience.

Working with and babysitting kids isn't the same as having your own. I used to think it was, but I'm slowly realizing I was flat out WRONG. Kids behave so much more differently with parents than with others, it's like night and day sometimes.

Harnesses aren't evil. I promise you. Trust me. I was a kid who had one on. They aren't evil. My mom had me and my brother, and two Alaskan Malamutes. She was a single mom and every so often liked to treat us all to a day at the beach. So we'd go to the beach in Monterey, where you park on the busy road, and you walk down to where you want to be, along the road, then down some rocky bits and onto the rocky beach. She had ALL of us on leads. She loved the dogs so she kept them on leashes with collars. She loved me and my brother, so she had us wear black webbing harnesses and leads. We were all safe, we were all happy, we all had fun.









Now do I use one with my son? No. I own two. A plain harness from Safety 1st and a cute teddy bear backpack. Alas, I must have become part malamute while growing up and it's been passed along by my DNA, because my son acts like a sled dog when he gets the harness on. He runs to the end of the lead and SLAMs against it, just like he's trying to get a sled unstuck from ice. Augh. NOT fun for my shoulder. Then he'll just lean on into it until he's at a 45 degree angle. Now can you imagine if you turned the corner and saw that, without seeing anything that led up to it? You'd think I was just yanking my kid by the lead, not parenting, blah blah blah, when actually at that point I would have NO CHOICE. I can't walk closer to use my hands, b/c if I let up the tension on the lead, he'd fall over. So the ONLY choice at that moment would be to talk to him from my end of the lead, and try to pull him more upright, or at least get him closer to me.

Anyway, that scenario played itself out too many times (about 3 times, though I only vividly remember one of the incidents) and we gave it up. We still haven't found any really good solutions, though.


----------



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Yesterday at the train station I saw a harness save a child.

Mom had it around her wist. She had her baby on the bench fixing its clothes/changing diaper? I walked up on the situation. Her oldest child (toddler) ran towards the ledge. That short tether stopped him before anyone could have grabbed him. Yes this child would have fallen off the ledge and hit by a train because the train was comming in.

It isn't always possible to sling both children.

I used a tether (sling tighten around the chest) a lot with my second child. Why? She is hard of hearing. Just talking to her didn't work. She couldn't hear! We needed extra help. And I think it is pretty unrealistic to suggest just "talking" to teach for all children. With her at times our only other options is strapping her to a stroller. Why would that have been ok? How would that help us work on the communication we needed. How does they help teach limits and to negotate limits?

It would be great to always live consentually but some of us have to ride buses, trains, and walk distances up streets with toddlers. Some care takers are simply to old to chase a child. Some are physically uncapable. Some children the hand holding is physically possible or safe (known some child that had issues with nursemade elbow because of a fall on a chair). Soem of us don't live in a perfectg world were we can advoid busy times to teach our children.

Yes, I have seen harness abused but I have also seen strollers abused. Actually any tool can be. I have seen children strapped into car seats neglected--yet nobody would argue using those because someone abused or poor parented with them.


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

To the moms who have the cute monkey/bear harnesses, where did you get them?

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure ds would be thrilled to go that route instead of being stuck holding my hand (which he doesn't really do anyway, he just throws himself on the ground and I'm afraid of giving him a dislocated shoulder), stuck in a stroller, or the sling. He wants to walk, pick flowers, eat bugs, darn it!









I gotta say, I am so, so glad I was humble enough not to assume that because my dd was a child who would stick right by my side, that parents who didn't have a kid like that were "doing it wrong". Because man, would I feel like an ass now that I have a runner!


----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
Also, before they were invented people did just fine....so i still stick with my original response







:

Well I wore one in the very early 70s, so they've been around a fair bit of time. But people didn't used to have cars, if we're going back far enough.

There's also a thing called "nursemaid's elbow" which kind of indicates that the nursemaids were holding hands. And then the kid would flop down or refuse to follow and dislocate their elbow. The fact that it has a name like that sort of indicates that people have been struggling with this issue for a long time! (try googling it).

I guess I just personally find it an interesting disconnect that people who use carriers, slings, strollers, and carseats find leashes somehow more confining or less of a teaching tool. I don't really buy the "parents are lazy today..." argument.


----------



## Ivan's Mom (Jul 10, 2006)

Not reading any other replies.

I got Ivan a puppy harness the day he started walking and we wore it every time we were in public until very recently (after 3 years old). He loved it and named it "Arf Arf" and asked to wear it.

There is nothing bad about them IMO. It keeps little ones that do not want to be carried anymore close and safe and gives them total hand freedom. I also want hand freedom and did not feel comfortable stooping to hold hands with a short little boy.


----------



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well I wore one in the very early 70s, so they've been around a fair bit of time. But people didn't used to have cars, if we're going back far enough.

There's also a thing called "nursemaid's elbow" which kind of indicates that the nursemaids were holding hands. And then the kid would flop down or refuse to follow and dislocate their elbow. The fact that it has a name like that sort of indicates that people have been struggling with this issue for a long time! (try googling it).

I guess I just personally find it an interesting disconnect that people who use carriers, slings, strollers, and carseats find leashes somehow more confining or less of a teaching tool. I don't really buy the "parents are lazy today..." argument.


Holly also fails to know that tethers were sewn into clothes as early at the 17th century. She ignores the different dangers in the world. Or that people us to do things like attach kids to treats with a long sting/rope.

She also forget in societies that use less of these devices could rely on extended family to help. It wasn't just mom or just dad. There often was an aunt, uncle, cousin, niece, nephew, grandparent around to help.

Yes, I would like to see more extended family but it isn't always avialable and it doesn't mean that "restraining" devices was never used.


----------



## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

Have only skimmed some replies, so this may be redundant, but I think they are a good compromise for this age. We have the monkey one-$10 at Target!- and DD loves it! (We don't use it as much now, she's almost 3.) She calls it her "safety monkey" and won't budge if we forget to pick up the tail. She'll remind me, "momma, hold my tail!" She's obviously very safety-oriented, but she's also 2 and it's pretty age-appropriate to be impulsive and forget the rules sometimes, even the one about running off. As for what others might think, who cares? I learned to ignore stares etc. when I decided to baby-wear, NIP, etc. Maybe I get looks, maybe I don't, I'm too wrapped up in my kids to notice. And remember, most people are too wrapped up in their own lives to notice what YOU are doing!


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
wow...

if you read my full post you would see that i did say i don't even having a walking child yet, but have a background in early childhood, have been on many trips with many children, etc. etc.

Anyway, I still just see no reason for a leash and i don't think i should be compared to a catholic priest... huh?

The op wondered about different perspectives...i gave my honest opinion...

I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









pass the bean dip







:

I don't know if you read my post, but I also have an extensive background in Early Childhood Education and worked with all ages for about 8 years. I thought exactly like you did until I had my dd. She has sensory issues and has never tolerated a sling, she also doesn't like being confined to a stroller, and hates having to hold hands. She just doesn't have any impulse control. I can talk, and talk, and talk and the second she sees a shiny object she runs. I'll talk to her about safety and she'll say "Okay mama.", but the next oportunity she is running to danger again. Talking does not work with every child and being a teacher is a whole lot different then being a parent. I never believed that until I had my dd.

When my mom was a toddler during the 40's one of her cousins, who was also a toddler, got loose and was killed by a car when they were shopping. So no, everything wasn't fine before they were invented. They were invented to help children stay safe. My grandma was so terrified of my mom getting killed that she fashioned her own harness with rope.


----------



## pcasylum (May 29, 2006)

Well, to those who are so disparaging of those of us who use them, I hope you are blessed with a runner so that you can learn a bit of humility and maybe understand some of what we have been saying. To be told that I am parenting poorly, or that I haven't talked to my children, or I haven't taught them in the right manner .... quite honestly I couldn't post a reply last night because I was too angry. How insulting!

To be blunt, being a former preschool teacher does absolutely *NOTHING* to prepare you for being a parent. So toss that right out the window. A close friend of mine did the same thing; she actually walked 25 2-3 yr olds across Harvard Square daily in her capacity at the preschool. She now has 3 children, and will tell anyone that her time at the preschool is like comparing apples and oranges to her parenting now. She said when you walk a bunch of children together that aren't yours it is the "pack mentality" that takes over. But the difference is she never had any illusions that her children would be like that.

I have 3 children, with 1 more on the way. My middle child has always been a runner. He's now age 5, so more or less doesn't run, but every once in awhile he'll just bolt. Does this mean I have never discussed safety with him? That I haven't taught him well? Do you understand that I have talked until I am blue in the face and he will still just RUN when the mood strikes him?

We used a backpack tether with him when he was 3, because that is when it was the worst. That was also when I had a newborn. To the poster who has *one* 2 yr old and simply takes more time to hold onto her child and talk to him the whole time, that's wonderful. But again, you only have *one* child. Unless I wanted to never go anywhere, when my runner was 3 I was out with a newborn, a running (and fast) 3 yr old, and a 7 yr old. At that point, it was about *safely* doing the errands we needed to do, and arriving home with all of my children in one piece. And yes, as we did what we needed to do, I talked constantly to my 3 yr old about safety. And let me tell you how much fun it was to chase a running and laughing child while holding my newborn and hollering to my 7 yr old to keep up or help me capture her younger brother. A few times of that madness was enough for me.

One of the times my son was wearing his doggie backpack tether I got a look from an obviously uninformed woman, along with a comment under her breath. I made my reply *not* under my breath, because until you've walked a mile in my shoes don't trumpet your ignorance in public. She walked off in a huff. LOL! I am SO beyond caring.

As for trying something else besides a tether like a sling, I slung my runner until my next child arrived. I couldn't sling them both, and my 3 yr old could remove himself from any stroller/carriage. To say that if he's too big to be slung then he's big enough to understand the need to stay close .... well .... LOL! That's very easy to say, but in real life not reality, sorry to say.


----------



## Otterella (Oct 13, 2007)

Ask yourself this question: why DO people use leashes on their dogs? Dogs are our companions and we care about them. We want them to get exercise, get a chance to get outside, but also keep them safe. Some dogs are very compliant and willing to obey when told to "stay" and may be perfectly fine without a leash, but others are more excitable and will run into a road or off into the woods no matter how often their owners try to teach them to stay. Dogs are not known for having good impulse control, much like toddlers. So we use a safety device called a leash to keep them safe. If your dog ran away or got hit by a car, I'm sure you'd be devastated, but how much more heartbroken would you be if your child did the same? And yet we'll willingly use a leash on a dog for safety and not give it a second thought, but not give the same safety consideration for our children? Makes no sense to me. The only difference is that a dog will never outgrow his dogginess, while a child will eventually no longer need the leash.

Oh, and before I got the monkey (at Target, for those who were asking), I figured out a way to use my mei tai as a makeshift harness. Put it on his back like a cape, with the waist straps over his shoulders. Criss cross the straps across his chest and tie in back. Use the shoulder straps as the "leash" part. An older child or one like mine with a knack for problem-solving will be able to get out of it easily, but it will do in a pinch or if you want to try out proof-of-concept before spending the money on the real thing.


----------



## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









I really hope you get twin runners for your next kids so you can eat your words.


----------



## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

_Well, to those who are so disparaging of those of us who use them, I hope you are blessed with a runner so that you can learn a bit of humility and maybe understand some of what we have been saying._

I think this is usually what happens.








I was wondering when a parent of a SN child would pipe up. From what I've read on MDC having a child on the autism spectrum can really necessitate using them. I think if I weren't able (thanks to mom and dh) to run necessary errands at night of kid-free, I would use them.


----------



## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

The only regret I have about our monkey backpack is that it came from Wal-Mart









DD's not a runner, but doesn't understand "stranger danger" and will chat up just about anyone. We bought the backpack when we flew to Detroit (far cry from what we are used to in KY, lol)... She is so trusting, she will walk off for candy, puppies, whatever. That freaks me out to no end.

Oh, and we've never recieved a rude comment about it. Just nice little old ladies laughing about the "monkey on her back."

Cute monkey story-- in the middle of the busy walkway in the airport, she stopped, layed down on the monkey and pretended to sleep, then popped up and said something like "ah, that was a good nap" and kept walking. At 15 months. Awww... maybe that's why we've never gotten the rudeness? Too cute?


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Was just coming to suggest the backpack harnesses but see others already did









They are available at Target and Walmart

Look like this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001BCYL92?...0&linkCode=asn


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I spent waaay too much time last night writing a post that I didn't quite finish, and now I can't find it on my computer. So forgive me as I struggle to reconstruct. This may not be as elequent.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher*


wow...

if you read my full post you would see that i did say i don't even having a walking child yet, but have a background in early childhood, have been on many trips with many children, etc. etc.


So have I. As well as dw. It's that Maria Montessori observation that kids are keenly interested in peer behavior. A group of peers can set and uphold norms much more effectively than can an adult trying to instruct kids into those norms.

I am sure as someone with a background in early childhood education, you must be familiar with this.

How many kids nap great at school, but not so well at home? It isn't that the parents are doing it wrong. I hope you haven't spent your time in the field thinking that, and thus likely blaming even some really wonderful parents along the way. It's because at school, everyone is settling in for nap time. Peer-to-peer norm maintenance works beautifully.

And the nice thing is, a group rhythm can keep up well even when one person gets a little out of step. But when you have just a few folks, if someone gets out of step with the rhythm, the whole bunch is more likely to come tumbling down to the ground. I agree with those who say you are comparing apples to oranges.

At the same time, as a parent, I would be *very* concerned if you told me that you take six two and three year olds, for example, out on walks on sidewalks next to any street during which they are not either holding a hand or holding onto a rope (that is the method used by the preschool my dw taught at most recently...the kids all have a ribbon they hold onto that is attached to the rope, which serves as a tangible, hands on reminder of where they need to walk as well as provides greater chance of accuracy and greater frequency of headcounts). _Of course the kids should always be instructed of the rules and instructed through the walk as necessary. _ No one here has disagreed with that.

But for one thing, I don't want my kids to have the constant nagging feeling that comes when someone is giving instruction after instruction after instruction and constantly correcting. I personally hate it when I am in the middle of doing something and someone is constantly piping in "do this," "do that," "please do it this way," etc. I want them to develop a love of walking, not to see it just as a way to get somewhere. I want them to be able to look around, to hear silence and come upon the sounds of birds and squirrels, to feel confident and knowledgeable and not constantly receive group corrections when only one or two kids are flirting with danger.

But more importantly, two (and sometimes three) is just typically too young to not be holding onto *something* while walking next to a street. A kid can know the rules, can understand the rules, but impulse control (and I dearly hope you know this, since you are in the field) is still in its earliest stages of development. There are some kids, like my dfd, who despite the best of instruction (my dfd gets the exact same instruction as ds) don't have that much safety awareness. If dfd sees a dog across the street and wants to go see it up close, she'll run first, think later.

That's been rightfully noted multiple times in this thread.

The parents on this thread who have noted that they have used, or will consider using, the monkey backpacks, are not "doing it wrong." They just have different kids and different circumstances from you.

For one thing, their kids are mobile. For another, many have more than one kid to keep track of. At least one has noted that she travels by walking, riding the bus, etc. I suspect there are others who live in car-busy urban areas like my family. Some of the parents and some of the kids have special needs. None seem to have mentioned that they have a childcare or preschool they are running at the same they are caring for the children, so there isn't the peer-norming available like it is in the larger group setting.

Quote:



I still just see no reason for a leash and i don't think i should be compared to a catholic priest... huh?


Though you accussed the other poster of not reading your posts, it is unclear to me whether you actually read or considered any of the other posts or the unique perspectives they offered.

The reason I say this is that there were a lot of reasons offerred, including but not limited to...

1. *Health considerations: *Items mentioned include concerns about discomfort or health from children having to hold a hand above their head constantly. Also, there was discussion about parents who are physically unable to run as quickly as their children.

2. *Safety awareness: *Despite the best of instruction and reminders, some kids develop safety awareness later than others. ds and dfd, as I mentioned, receive all the same exact safety teaching. In fact, we had a dog who got hit and killed by a car this year (long sad story), so both my kids are aware of the dire consequences of not being safety aware. But, when we are on a busy street, ds remains aware of the risk always, and dfd just exists in her own little world and goes after anything that strikes her fancy. Actually, even at home, dfd is still the kid at two and a half who walks into walls and trips over rugs all.the.time. (Yes, she has had her vision checked.)

3. *Independence and freedom:* Some kids sometimes will want to explore the world with both hands, not just with one. They want the independence to go at more of their own pace, rather than just an arm's length from mama. They don't want to go in the sling or ergo on every walk. I think it is good and right that there are attentive, creative mamas on here who follow their children's interests and try to find ways to give them that independence and freedom.

4. *Special Needs:* I have *two tots,* both of whom have special needs. My ds is not able to process verbal information during the moment it is communicated. It takes him a minute or three to process. If he sees his friend across the street and runs without thinking (since impulse control is still developing), assuming I am unable to leap over to him in time, the minute it takes him to process me calling out to him to stop, is going to be the minute when he is getting hit by a car. My dfd's special needs make slings uncomfortable for her. And my special needs include a back injury from a car accident, which means I can't carry her constantly even in the Ergo (more on that in a minute), as well as a neurological processing challenge that can leave me overwhelmed by sensory input sometimes at the most inopportune times, which can draw my attention away from my children.

5. *Multiple children with varying ages:* Sometimes mom is able to manage two tots running in opposite directions at the pond, or say, slinging the fussy baby, holding onto a super active tot's hand, and maintaining an in depth conversation with a seven year old who is desperate to pass on every ounce of experience from school that day. BUT, sometimes that's not possible, and moms have enough guilt without having more placed on top of them for doing what it takes to keep these kids safe in those instances when they aren't able to do it all.

I don't understand how in the swoop of a few key strokes you can just write all that stuff (stuff that was posted by multiple loving, thoughtful, AP moms) off, concluding "I still don't see the reason."

Quote:



I think they are evil







I stand by it!


I know there can be exceptions, but I have been on MDC for about ten years now, and have met in person at least more than two dozen moms from this community. Given that experience, when speaking with other moms here, I feel it is safe to assume that for the most part, these moms are thoughtful people who love their children and foster healthy, attached relationships. They may not do everything exactly like me, but just like me, they want the best for the children.

So when you take a tool that some are using in, at least how they describe it, moderate, thoughtful, and child-centered ways to acheive things like giving their children consensual independence as desired, and you call that tool evil, it comes off dismissive and hurtful and thoughtless, and it really sounds more like, "If only you all would parent exactly like me, you'd realize you have it all wrong." I am not sure how that is helpful to anyone, including the OP.

Quote:



I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.?


Folks have already explained many of the things that they do and try. My kids are not too big for the ergo, but neither want to be contained when they can walk. That's _the phase of development_ they are in right now. So unless you have tried to put your two year old in the Ergo only to have her start screaming bloody murder, "Noooooooo! No Ergo! No Ergo!" don't tell me you can make assumptions about what I have and have not tried.

When we go out, whenever possible, my kids walk independently. This is *frequent.* The other day we walked to the bus stop, rode the bus to the park, played on the playground, walked around the pond, went to an art festival, walked over to the grocery store, shopped, and headed back home. At least 80% of that time the kids weren't even holding my hand.

However, when that level of independence isn't possible, 95% of the time I give them four choices: "I can carry you, you can hold my hand, you can wear the monkey backpack, or you can hold onto my skirt." They choose different options at different times, depending on what they want out of the moment. Because dfd is a big time explorer who wants her hands free and wants to be down on the ground walking, she is the more likely candidate for choosing the monkey backpack. When she wears it, we tuck away the tail when it isn't needed, she and I both hold it when it is needed, or sometimes she will decide to hold my hand while I also hold onto the tail for backup. ds, who is a much more cautious explorer, usually chooses to hold my hand or skirt. It's a choice. And I can't see how on earth you could just take them making choices that are safe and feel good to them and call it "evil."

I can really understand the reactions people are having to your post.


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I don't assume anything about the people who use leashes, i'm basing my respone on the actual times i've seen people with leashes and it's only been a couple of times at the mall. There was also holloring at the child and pulling on the leash until the kid fell down when a man (i assume was the father) said, "there that's what you get then" and started laughing...

I guess i've just never seen one good experience with them. Also, before they were invented people did just fine....so i still stick with my original response







:

I guess if the OP was asking about some hypothetical parent using them, that would be one thing. But the OP was asking I *think* for personal reasons, and I have got to assume that a mama on MDC is not the type who would drag her kid around, holloring at her and pulling on the leash only to laugh when the child fell down.


----------



## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Hollyteacher- I was a daycare worker while I was preggo, and when a SN child opened two doors, and ran away when I was 9 mos preg, I decided THEN that I wouldn't hesitate to use a harness if it's needed. I pulled a muscle in my groin, and even though I caught him, he was only a few feet away from the door to the parking lot when I did.

I also tried to carry my 32 lb 2 yo in the meitai shortly after I got pg this time. I am hypermobile, and I was in pain for days. Thus ended my babywearing days for DS at least until after this BB comes!









There are lots of reasons why it's sometimes necessary to restrain a child. Especially because not every 'big enough' child is old enough to understand or have control. Just because my 2 yo DS is the size of some 4 yo's doesn't mean I can trust him or reason with him.

If you've had training for toddlers and preschool, you should remember that small children don't have adult style reasoning skills, and that verbal language doesn't have control over them the same way it does older children.

Here are some other interesting things to google- 'apron strings' and 'leading strings' . It might also interest you to know that some cultures still wear padded helmets on their toddlers, which might seem weird until YOUR toddler smacks his/her head on something when you could have sworn he was safe!

Just my 2cts.


----------



## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WilliamsMama* 
So, DH, my mom and ILs all think we should buy a harness for DS, who is now 15mo and getting to the stage that he's starting to run away from us- a lot. He wrests his little hand out of mine and is gone like a shot! He's already had some scary close calls (we live in NYC, so you can imagine).
Anyway, I'm sort of waffling back and forth on this one because I'm not sure what I think.
Really.
I've had a friend say that she thinks it makes the child look like it's being walked like a dog.
Another friend says who cares how it looks if it keeps him safe.
The argument is that it allows him the freedom to move around and walk, but keeps him from getting into dangerous situations. It wouldn't be used all the time (just in crowded areas, or in situations where he might run off and get hurt).
We use a mei tai, Ergo and our stroller, but he certainly wants to move about on his own and this 30+lber is getting harder to carry every day.
What are your thoughts?
(*Let's try to keep this civil!)

(I haven't read the responses because I'm pretty sure I know how it's going down already. So I'll just give my position without getting into all of it.)

I think they would be great for the types of situations you descibed. My daughter never like the stroller so we used a sling and an Ergo when she was little. When she could walk, she wanted to walk a lot. She still liked to be worn some, but walking was where it was at for her.

We took a trip to NYC when she was about 20 months. I wanted to get one of those harnesses but I was too chicken s**t because I was afraid of what other people would think, so I just took the Ergo. Big mistake. It was so hot, and I was so tried from lugging her around. She would have rather walked anyway but certain areas were just not safe. If she got away from me on the busy streets with all that traffic or in the subway station, I shudder to think what could have happened. And I am all about giving kids even that young freedom and am not the over protective type, but those situations just didn't feel safe for a free running toddler.

Anyway, if I lived there or somewhere like it or were to visit again with an active stroller hating toddler, damn skippy I would get a harness and I wouldn't care what anyone thought.


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Sierra said:


> I spent waaay too much time last night writing a post that I didn't quite finish, and now I can find it on my computer. So forgive me as I struggle to reconstruct. This may not be as elequent.
> 
> 
> > In case this thread gets pulled, I do want to quickly thank you for your thoughtful and very eloquent posts, Sierra. Your summary of reasons that posters have listed for choosing to use a harness was very useful.


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 

Here are some other interesting things to google- 'apron strings' and 'leading strings' . It might also interest you to know that some cultures still wear padded helmets on their toddlers, which might seem weird until YOUR toddler smacks his/her head on something when you could have sworn he was safe!

Just my 2cts.

Thanks for suggesting this historical perspective. Interesting.

O/T but I actually purchased the soft helmets for my sons to wear as toddlers learning to walk and climb. They were a godsend, and I highly recommend them

Here is a source for one brand:
http://www.babynobumps.com/

If anyone knows of other brands please post or pm me. I'd love to get one that has a velcro or snap chin strap rather than a string that you tie.


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
Hollyteacher- I was a daycare worker while I was preggo, and when a SN child opened two doors, and ran away when I was 9 mos preg, I decided THEN that I wouldn't hesitate to use a harness if it's needed. I pulled a muscle in my groin, and even though I caught him, he was only a few feet away from the door to the parking lot when I did.

I also tried to carry my 32 lb 2 yo in the meitai shortly after I got pg this time. I am hypermobile, and I was in pain for days. Thus ended my babywearing days for DS at least until after this BB comes!









There are lots of reasons why it's sometimes necessary to restrain a child. Especially because not every 'big enough' child is old enough to understand or have control. Just because my 2 yo DS is the size of some 4 yo's doesn't mean I can trust him or reason with him.

If you've had training for toddlers and preschool, you should remember that small children don't have adult style reasoning skills, and that verbal language doesn't have control over them the same way it does older children.

Here are some other interesting things to google- 'apron strings' and 'leading strings' . It might also interest you to know that some cultures still wear padded helmets on their toddlers, which might seem weird until YOUR toddler smacks his/her head on something when you could have sworn he was safe!

Just my 2cts.

i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion. My great gramma had 16 brothers and sister and they all survived without leashes, my grandmother had 3 girls, all fine without leashes, my mom had 2 fine w/o leashes etc. So imho they are not needed, and i still think and feel that they are yucky.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well I wore one in the very early 70s, so they've been around a fair bit of time. But people didn't used to have cars, if we're going back far enough.

There's also a thing called "nursemaid's elbow" which kind of indicates that the nursemaids were holding hands. And then the kid would flop down or refuse to follow and dislocate their elbow. The fact that it has a name like that sort of indicates that people have been struggling with this issue for a long time! (try googling it).
*
I guess I just personally find it an interesting disconnect that people who use carriers, slings, strollers, and carseats find leashes somehow more confining or less of a teaching tool. I don't really buy the "parents are lazy today..." argument*.


I agree with you.

Also, my grandmother told me that her mom would use a rope or twine to connect a young child to the clothesline, like with a dog runner I suppose, so she could get her washing hung out to dry without chasing a toddler down the road.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion. My great gramma had 16 brothers and sister and they all survived without leashes, my grandmother had 3 girls, all fine without leashes, my mom had 2 fine w/o leashes etc. So imho they are not needed, and i still think and feel that they are yucky.


Yes, but the personal experiences of a few don't make using harnesses wrong. Good for your family. I am serious, not being snarky.

I understand that you are entitled to your opinion. No problem. I simply disagree with you.

I only hope that you never have a runner, or a special needs child, like my son, who can get away from you in a second flat. I really, really hope that you don't.


----------



## Tor_55 (Aug 19, 2008)

I never used one.

We had the rule if you can't hold my hand then you get carried. To each their own though, it's understandable if you have twins or two around the same age, the harness just wasn't for me!

My daughter was a runner, but she learned very quickly if she wanted to go out she had to stay near us or she got picked up....end of discussion.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Novella* 







:

haven't you heard of the term "spank the monkey" ?


----------



## pcasylum (May 29, 2006)

It sounds like your family was lucky in that there weren't alot of runners. But that is still just your personal experience. My grandmother was one of 15, and they had the benefit of older children to help wrangle the youngers PLUS a herd mentality going on, so that really isn't a good case scenario anyhow.

Just to clarify, I completely support your right to parent however you choose and your right to your own opinion. But please don't think that we aren't teaching our children if, in all our varied situations, we need to use a tool to keep a child safe. It's just another tool, like a stroller or a sling.

And to make a blanket statement like "they aren't needed" is just plain wrong. YOU not needing them does not mean they aren't needed by other people. It's easy to say when you only have 1. But start adding in multiple children and it's not so easy anymore. I'm past the point where if my current 2 yr old (still not sure if he's a runner or not - he's thinking about it lol) decides to run I can just hold him. He will *not* be held when we are out and about. And with 2 other children, a big ol pregnant belly, and one of those 2 other children being my aforementioned runner (he's still not completely trustworthy), I cannot try to wrestle the 2 yr old, which is what trying to hold him results in - a wrestling match complete with him screaming and throwing himself backwards. I haven't used the harness with him yet but I've taken it out of storage in case.

TinkerBelle, my grandmother did that too!







She had 4 children, and my dad was the runner. (Maybe that's where my son got it? lol) So she would somehow fasten him to the clothesline pole with a rope or something while he was a toddler so she could hang up the laundry. It was either that or he would run out into the very busy street.

I actually hope she *does*get gifted with a runner - and I mean that in a nice way. I have learned so much about tolerance and understanding from mine.







(And his boundless energy is amazing!)


----------



## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion. My great gramma had 16 brothers and sister and they all survived without leashes, my grandmother had 3 girls, all fine without leashes, my mom had 2 fine w/o leashes etc. So imho they are not needed, and i still think and feel that they are yucky.

Well, you didnt answer anyones questions about other possible options in their individual and valid cases, all you did was make a broad statement about how you feel that since your families children survived that means that their scenarios are representative of the entire earths population.

Is it safe to assume that you are not on this thread for any constructive means, but just to get a rise out of everyone?


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I just want to note that _some smokers_ live to be 100 or older.

Also, my MIL raised seven children and had no ability to keep track of her children, as well as no awareness around safety (chemicals stored in the open at child level), etc. etc. Her *seventh* child (she apparently never learned), my dw, was once spun in the clothes dryer and it was very dangerous. One of her brothers had to rescue her. Now there was a *lot* of spanking going on, and maybe that is why, but fortunately for MIL, her seven children survived to adulthood, with a lot of help from each other.

I still don't store the chemicals in the open on the child level, and I do keep at least a half an eye on my kids, and I don't let the kids play in the clothes dryer. Nor do I spank. I also don't smoke.


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion. My great gramma had 16 brothers and sister and they all survived without leashes, my grandmother had 3 girls, all fine without leashes, my mom had 2 fine w/o leashes etc. So imho they are not needed, and i still think and feel that they are yucky.


Just to clarify, are you saying that all of us that use child safety harnesses could avoid them by just "talking" to our children? As I said in my other posts, I have worked with a variety of ages in daycare and I did not need any type child harness. But with my own child all the methods that worked while I was a preschool teacher do not work. Of course, she gets it honest, I spent my entire chidhood doing really dumb, dangerous things that my parents had told me over and over again not to do. Right after I got hurt I would always think, "Wow, I should have known not to do that." But before hand I would always get caught up in the moment and act without thinking. My mom used one of the wrist leashes with me because I would constantly wonder off out in public. She used to tell me over and over again to stay with her, but I would always forget until I got lost. I can understand if you don't want to use them, but I just don't understand how after reading this thread you don't see that sometimes they are necessary.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 

I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









pass the bean dip







:

that would still be restraining the....you work with kids 2-6. Most runners are 12-24 months. You don't yet have the experience in this area. I also have a degree in Child Development. I run a home daycare/preschool. I've done this for 8 years. Your own children behave differently for you than other people's children do, that's a fact. I finally, after 8 years, have a daycare boy that needs a leash. He's 26 months, FAST, refuses to hold hands....I can't lift him because he's very heavy, he throws his body weight around to get out of being picked up when he's trying to run away etc. This kid has to be harnessed or in a stroller with a 5pt harness and a chest clip when we go on walks.


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

I love this thread!







This has been a source of some great entertainment over the past couple of days! LOL!

FWIW, I'm 36 years old and I was "leashed" by my mom regularly -- we lived overseas, my sister and I were only 18 months apart, and she was terrified of losing me in the various international airports we trekked through as she wore my sister, lugged all our carry-on luggage and tried to corral me.

I assure you that while people may have looked strangely at us (which I doubt, but whatever), I'm not damaged by my experience.

My son is leashed whenever we go someplace that is crowded (our zoo) and he wants to explore. He doesn't hear me when he's excited. He just doesn't. And he runs faster than any Olympic track athlete -- I guarantee you this. I can't take the chance that I won't catch up to him if I have to chase him down carrying his sister on my back, or that I'll lose sight of him and someone will snatch him up.

He loves his leash (it's a wrist tether), and pretends I'm his pet when we walk with it. Over the last year, I've had to pretend I was a dog, a cat, and a squirrel (LOL!?). He's soooooo not affected by it. My DD thinks it's fun too, and when they find it in the house, they like to "walk" each other around the house.

I think all the people who are against it are simply overthinking it. Seriously.


----------



## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Hey, anybody know of a "leash" that can be used at the pool? I took DD _by myself_ to the public pool for the first time the other day...
Let's just say a muscle bound 3 year old is much faster than I. Lots of people got a kick out of watching a 7 month pregnant lady who can't see her own feet chase the princess from baby pool to kid pool to big pool. Did I mention we were both greased with sunblock? We should have been kicked out.
I swear, I won't restrain her in the water-- just the 20 feet or so between the pools-- and only until she realizes she CANNOT run at the pool


----------



## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc.

What if they don't want to be worn? My DD hated any kind of sling or carrier. I tried all different kinds, and she just didn't like them...they felt too restraining for her, I guess (she also hated being swaddled as a newborn, and even now will not sleep with any kind of blankets covering her). Also, if you are out all day long, especially at a place like the zoo or Disney, it's really exhausting wearing a toddler all day long (not to mention hot!).

I'd much rather see a kid who is content to be on a harness than a kid who is forced to sit in a backpack carrier or a sling or stroller against their will. I don't see anything evil or disrespectful about giving a child carefully controlled freedom and safe boundaries. It's quite the opposite, actually.


----------



## Rylins mama (Aug 22, 2007)

We have one but havent used it yet snce dd is only 16 months and were living on an itty bitty island in AK... I imagine that next summer when we are in the "real world" though with her being 2 and a 6 month old, I will MOST likely pull it out. I do not consider myself evil in any kind of way but I know shes hard enough to handle now and cant even imagine doing it with qanother little one and being in a big place.


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
Hey, anybody know of a "leash" that can be used at the pool? I took DD _by myself_ to the public pool for the first time the other day...
Let's just say a muscle bound 3 year old is much faster than I. Lots of people got a kick out of watching a 7 month pregnant lady who can't see her own feet chase the princess from baby pool to kid pool to big pool. Did I mention we were both greased with sunblock? We should have been kicked out.
I swear, I won't restrain her in the water-- just the 20 feet or so between the pools-- and only until she realizes she CANNOT run at the pool









Now THAT would be the perfect invention!!! LOL! A leash with arm floaties on it!!!!







LOVE IT!


----------



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I use a harness on my dd all the time! I work outside a lot and I don't have a fence around my yard. I put a spike in the ground that you're supposed to attach a dog chain too--instead I tie dd on it. I use the "leash" that came with harness and I use clothesline to extend the length (it's what I had on hand). The spike "thing" allows 360degree movement and doesn't get tangled up.

She fussed and hollered when I first put it on her...sometimes she still fusses and throws a fit. But...it's either this or she gets killed by a car. The harness has litterally been a life saver for us and much less stress for mama. If I take her somewhere with lots of people and she'll be walking (as opposed to being slung) I'll put the harness on her then too.

I see nothing wrong with them


----------



## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I use a harness on my dd all the time! I work outside a lot and I don't have a fence around my yard. I put a spike in the ground that you're supposed to attach a dog chain too--instead I tie dd on it. I use the "leash" that came with harness and I use clothesline to extend the length (it's what I had on hand). The spike "thing" allows 360degree movement and doesn't get tangled up.

She fussed and hollered when I first put it on her...sometimes she still fusses and throws a fit. But...it's either this or she gets killed by a car. The harness has litterally been a life saver for us and much less stress for mama. If I take her somewhere with lots of people and she'll be walking (as opposed to being slung) I'll put the harness on her then too.

I see nothing wrong with them









seriously?


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I use a harness on my dd all the time! I work outside a lot and I don't have a fence around my yard. I put a spike in the ground that you're supposed to attach a dog chain too--instead I tie dd on it. I use the "leash" that came with harness and I use clothesline to extend the length (it's what I had on hand). The spike "thing" allows 360degree movement and doesn't get tangled up.

She fussed and hollered when I first put it on her...sometimes she still fusses and throws a fit. But...it's either this or she gets killed by a car. The harness has litterally been a life saver for us and much less stress for mama. If I take her somewhere with lots of people and she'll be walking (as opposed to being slung) I'll put the harness on her then too.

I see nothing wrong with them

















:


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Clearly Holly is a better mother than most of the rest of you.


----------



## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Clearly Holly is a better mother than most of the rest of you.











I just read this thread and I wish i had come here sooner because if I had known that all i needed to do was talk to my dd about not running away I would have done it.







I'm going to venture to guess that there isn't a single person out there with a kid on a "leash" who hasn't tried talking to them about not running.

That is like starting a thread about a toddler who hits and having a bunch of people ask you if you've tried telling them to be gentle and not to hit.

I have the monkey back pack harness and I love it. It looks cute my dd loves it and above all she doesn't run away. All the better mothers in the world can judge me all they want I will still choose keeping my kid safe over anything else.


----------



## TefferTWH (May 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Baby_Makes_5* 
Well, to those who are so disparaging of those of us who use them, I hope you are blessed with a runner so that you can learn a bit of humility and maybe understand some of what we have been saying. To be told that I am parenting poorly, or that I haven't talked to my children, or I haven't taught them in the right manner .... quite honestly I couldn't post a reply last night because I was too angry. How insulting!

.









: and I don't even use one (yet) with my runner.


----------



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawncayden* 
seriously?

Yep.

I'm a single mama. I gotta do what I gotta do. Unless you want to come to my house for free to watch my kid while I do outside housework?


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Clearly Holly is a better mother than most of the rest of you.

Yes clearly.

My oldest went through a phase of running. We went over safety rules. We tried everything. We eventually tried a leash, but it didn't work because she just sat on the ground barking and wouldn't walk.









I think it is hilarious when people think leashes or harnesses are demeaning or whatever. Project much people?


----------



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Wanted to add: She has quite a long leash. She can get to me, to her toys, to our swing (where she naps under the shade, still attached to leash) and to the end of the sidewalk--that's where the leash ends and that's where she throws a fit. It's NOT cruel by any means. Until she is old enough to learn boundaries, this is the way it will be. I'm right there with her watching her (in addition to the harness)...but she can't dart off or disappear if I blink.

She can litterally retreive 20 objects for me (Where's your baby? Where's your broom? Get your shoes. Get your book., etc). She's smart. But, let me say "stop" or "don't do that please" or whatever....and well--







she keeps on running. Not cool.


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I am totally and completely ok with harnesses. I was on the fence before DS started walking, and now that he is BOLTING every single time I let go of his hand in public, I am getting ready to introduce him to a harness.

When we go out in public, especially in buildings where there are things that I really can't let him touch, he goes absolutely bonkers. HE.MUST.RUN... He dashes off to touch everything, and all I can do is run after him and remove him bodily from whatever has caught his eye. He refuses to be worn if I am not walking at a pretty good clip, and he also refuses to be in the stroller if we are not walking outside. The instant we walk through a door, he is screaming at the top of his lungs to be set free. It is insane.

I am a single mama and socializing with other mamas is crucial to my mental well being. If I am spending all of my time chasing after DS, I can't even say "hello" to anyone. It isn't even worth it for me to leave my house. I have a tendency towards depression, so getting out in public is absolutely imperative to my being a sane, rational person.

Two very recent examples. There was a World Breastfeeding Week celebration in my town recently, and I was in the "fashion show" that show cased nursing/maternity wear. At the rehearsal, my son was so all over the place that I ended up leaving in tears. I did manage to do my part for the rehearsal, but I wasn't able to listen to anything that was said to me, I wasn't able to talk to anyone longer than 5 seconds, and I had to chase my son all over the church to prevent him from knocking things over, climbing on inappropriate obstacles, and pulling things down.

My second example: I desperately needed to talk to my landlord about my furnace, which recently died. I had to go to the property manager's office in person to turn in some paperwork, so I loaded up DS in the stroller and walked over. The instant we walked through the door, he started screaming bloody murder. I took him out of the stroller so I would be able to hear what the landlord was saying, but he proceeded to run behind the desk, grab a bunch of papers and fling them around the room. He then ran over to the window, climbed up on a very flimsy wire chair and started to tip that over. He then ran into the bathroom and made a beeline for the toilet (which he loves to lick for some odd reason...














. After dragging him out of the bathroom kicking and screaming, he made a dash for a bookcase and started ransacking that.
Needless to say, my conversation with my landlord was cut short, and I had to leave, again in tears.

My son is super, duper active. I have never in my life seen a child with as much energy as my sweet boy. He is only 16 months old and has only recently learned how to run, so I know he is only going to get faster. There is absolutely no way that I could talk to him to explain that he shouldn't be running around destroying everything he sees. It is all fun to him, and he has zero impulse control (as is normal at his age). It drives me insane, but I know we will get through it, and I am actually looking forward to using a harness on him in public so I will not be terrified every single second that we are out.

I know people will judge me when they see us using the harness, but it is that, or a screaming tantruming child who is impossible to be around. It is not just a short spurt of screaming either. Two nights ago, I went on a 2.5 hour walk with a friend, and half way through (at our turn around point), DS decided he no longer wanted to be in the Patapum (Ergo) or the stroller. I nursed him, checked his diaper and strapped him to my back, and he screamed in my ear for an HOUR AND A HALF.







If I had our harness with us, I could have popped that on and let him walk with us, but I didn't, and he won't hold hands for very long before needing to dash way, so I just booked it on home as fast as we could.

Harnesses are most definitely not evil in my book. They are a tool. They can most definitely be abused, but when used appropriately, they are a god send to a mama in need of them. I would much rather see a child flitting about at the end of a leash than strapped unhappily into an Ergo or a stroller.


----------



## lyterae (Jul 10, 2005)

We bought one of the harnesses by goldbug to take on a trip over the weekend (we went to Michigan Adventure, an amusent park.) I don't know what we would have done without it, most of the time I had the end around my wrist and was holding her hand. There were times she wanted to walk without holding my hand and I could still hold the "monkeys tail" while she wandered, other times it was the only thing keeping her from darting away or wandering off following some other family. I didn't want a "leash" at first but it turned out to be a great way to allow her some independance and for me to not be constantly worried I was going to lose her.


----------



## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

When ds was around 18 months -2 we used a leash at Disney World and the airport. It gave him the freedom to explore on his own 2 feet with an extra safety precaution. At that age a lot of them want to walk but the constant shuffle of people in busy places can make it hard to keep track of them (even if you have your eyes constantly focused on them) A stroller or a sling/carrier are much more confining than a tether.


----------



## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion. My great gramma had 16 brothers and sister and they all survived without leashes, my grandmother had 3 girls, all fine without leashes, my mom had 2 fine w/o leashes etc. So imho they are not needed, and i still think and feel that they are yucky.

I'm very happy for your family that everyone is fine. And I hope that you can agree that most moms here on MDC are thoughtful moms who love their kids and aren't subjecting them to some torturous treatment for fun. Hopefully you'll never see your little ones backside running away from you while you shriek STOP helplessly. Seriously. Because no matter where you are, it is positively terrifying.

I don't think there is a thing wrong with them. Happy mama, happy baby, and safe mom and babe are all good in my book.


----------



## jauncourt (Mar 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I vote Yes they ARE that bad! Whenever i see one it makes me shudder! I will NEVER use one and really wish they were never invented!

I, for one, am very happy that they were.

*I would not be alive without the one my mother used* _as a backup_ to holding my hand and talking to me.









DS1 would not be alive without the one I used _as a backup_ to holding his hand and talking to him.

Holding hands and talking does not work for every child in every situation.


----------



## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Sometimes it all comes down to prevention and restraint to maintain gentle discipline. I rarely use a harness, but I do have one and if I predict the circumstances will be right, I don't hesitate to pull it out and use it.

To me, a harness = gentle discipline. My kid is very willful, and often doesn't think you're "serious" about stuff when you talk to him. You could talk to him about not running away until you're blue in the face, before the incident, after, etc etc etc. He doesn't make the connection yet. And just thinks it's funny when he runs away. And also, right now, he's going through a very defiant phase. He'll do exactly the opposite of what you say on purpose while looking at you laughing. I'll be quite honest: keeping him on a leash if in certain situations prevents me from spanking his hiney. Worst case scenario: I talk to him and he's shown repeatedly that he won't listen and do what he wants; he snatches away from my hand, I can't get him, he won't come to me for calling, gets pancaked in a street or parking lot, lost, other. Next worse case: I spank him because that's the only way he realizes I'm serious and that there are dire consequences (worse than that spanking) to running away. Less severe alternative: Use a leash. He holds my hand; darts away, realizes he can't get anywhere, and comes back and holds my hand.

I choose the most gentle of the those three alternatives.


----------



## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
It's that they don't have the impulse control. Talking about safety, practicing safety, all those things are important - and it is just as easy to do that with a harness-wearing child as it is with a carried child, stroller-ed child, or hand-held child.

The harness is not a substitute for these things. It's merely an added measure of safety for those moments when glee and joy and the drive to explore overrode instruction.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnygir1* 
I used to think it was awful. Now I think it's fine to use them when needed to keep you child safe. I think some people over-use them, and, of course their use should NEVER take the place of speaking respectfully to your child and helping them to learn about safety.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I was wondering when a parent of a SN child would pipe up. From what I've read on MDC having a child on the autism spectrum can really necessitate using them.


I understand where you are coming from. I have a special needs child who also happens to be a runner. Impulse control is something we have not yet mastered. We do use a harness on occasion. I'll just reiterate what so many other moms have already said - safety comes first and foremost.


----------



## LotusBirthMama (Jun 25, 2005)

Man, whoever had that leash outside idea (sorry, skimming 8 pages here) I am totally stealing that. I lurve the harness! It lets my very fast 18 month old actually explore his environment safely without being a danger to himself or a nuisance to others around him. Look, I am all over a good sling. I own pretty much one of every kind. DS2 would probably still ride in one happily if not for my big old pregnant belly. But really, how freaking boring for an active kid to be strappedto my back instead of getting to move around a bit. I would rather him be able to touch and fell and manipulate his environment, within reason, than have to be stuck on my back or in a stroller. A cute monkey backpack leash makes that possible.

And I second the leash disparagers having a bolter for their next kid!


----------



## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who mentioned where to get the monkey harness. We get a 10% discount at Walmart, so even better than the already decent price









My grandmother did attach one of her kids to the clothesline too. She had 11 kids and while the older ones did help with the younger ones, my one uncle pretty much had no concept of safety and the other kids couldn't handle him. My mom swears if he was around today he would be diagnosed as autistic.

After the last few days, I cannot wait to get one. Dd is on the spectrum, and is CONSTANTLY getting in between ds and I when we're out walking. It's hard enough to catch a toddler without having her in the middle not paying attention to him darting away







: And yesterday, we visited my mom at her shop which is on one of the main roads of the city (very, very busy). Ds walked up to the door and started pushing on it..so dd went over and started to open it for him! I was watching him like a hawk anyway because I didn't want him ruining anything in my mom's store, so I was right there, but holy crap! Dd doesn't seem to notice a difference between "Oh, brother wants this toy, I'll help!" and "Brother wants to run out into traffic, I'll help!"


----------



## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
Hey, anybody know of a "leash" that can be used at the pool? I took DD _by myself_ to the public pool for the first time the other day...
Let's just say a muscle bound 3 year old is much faster than I. Lots of people got a kick out of watching a 7 month pregnant lady who can't see her own feet chase the princess from baby pool to kid pool to big pool. Did I mention we were both greased with sunblock? We should have been kicked out.
I swear, I won't restrain her in the water-- just the 20 feet or so between the pools-- and only until she realizes she CANNOT run at the pool









My friend got a really simple one at Walmart, it was just red canvas straps, but had a picture of elmo on the front. Anything not fuzzy would work I'd think.


----------



## pcasylum (May 29, 2006)

Just wanted to add that we got our puppy backpack harness at Target for about $10-$12.


----------



## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
i understand all the different perspectives...i was just trying to clarify that i still hold my same opinion.

This reminds me of the coffee mug my grandma used to have that said, "My mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts!"


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
I guess if the OP was asking about some hypothetical parent using them, that would be one thing. But the OP was asking I *think* for personal reasons, and I have got to assume that a mama on MDC is not the type who would drag her kid around, holloring at her and pulling on the leash only to laugh when the child fell down.

Nope- I'm not planning on dragging DS around as I holler at him. (OP here







)


----------



## Monkeygrrl (Oct 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WilliamsMama* 
What are your thoughts?

i havent read the whole thread, so the topic may have changed...but i have the monkey backpack harness thing for my 2yo...he is a runner, has no fear, etc...he loves it...we use it at the doctor, in the mall, in walmart, etc...

i tend to not care what others think about i am raising my kids...i use this for his safety, not because i like him to look like a dog...i have 5 other kids to keep track of on a daily basis...and its just easier to have this and know where he is, then to have to chase him down all the time...

peace...


----------



## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ks Mama* 
And you are lucky. I'd actually be concerned as a parent of one of those 6 kids that there was only one adult in charge around busy roads.

Me too, in fact that would be illegal here. I would *never* put my kids in a preschool where there is one person in charge of 6 kids 5 and under and out on busy streets.

We have a harness. The grandparents actually use it a lot more than we do, which is probably about once a month. I should also mention that MIL is an ECE and retired primary school teacher with over 30 years under her belt and as far as child rearing goes is very crunchy. I've tried it, but didn't find it all that much more practical than chasing my kid through a crowd. I might give it a shot again this week, but I guess my preferred mode of child restraint going into a busy situation is the stroller (yes, bad mom here). I do actually let my kid walk though...honestly! *g*

We went to the farm the other day with some friends, my guy did well at staying in the boundaries. My friend's little guy, who is two months younger wanted to explore the entire place. She says he'd walk off with strangers and I believe her. She has a harness. And thankfully even though this is her first and only, she is confident enough to know that keeping her child safe, while keeping him happy trumps any high horse.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
I don't assume anything about the people who use leashes, i'm basing my respone on the actual times i've seen people with leashes and it's only been a couple of times at the mall. There was also holloring at the child and pulling on the leash until the kid fell down when a man (i assume was the father) said, "there that's what you get then" and started laughing...

I guess i've just never seen one good experience with them. Also, before they were invented people did just fine....so i still stick with my original response







:


I think you'd find they were invented a very long time ago. I have clear memories of wearing mine as a toddler - and very fond memories they are too! They might have gone out of fashion for a while, but that doesn't mean that they are new. After the Jamie Bulger case in the UK, they came very much back into fashion.

As for the poster who sees no connection between a toddler wandering from his mother's side in a mall and getting murdered, and the use of a harness to keep him safe beside his mother while she paid for her goods in a store, I'm baffled.

I guess she should have thought, 'heck, what's the big deal? If the murderers hadn't got my kid, they'd have got another, so what's the difference?"









The point was, that her child did wander off. Unlike hundreds of children who go missing in a mall, he was taken away and killed. I don't live in fear of strangers abducting my child, because the statistics are on my side, but I do have concerns about my child wandering off and getting lost, scared, or run over. And I'd prefer to minimize that risk, in a way that my child accepts happily - which all mine did with a harness.

For those who cringe at the sight of a harness, do you cringe every time you see a stroller? Do you believe that each and every person who you see with a stroller is a lazy person? None of you seem to address the fact that a stroller is actually more restricting than a harness. So is a sling or a backpack for a walking child. I'd like to know thoughts on that.


----------



## kohlby (Dec 5, 2005)

If something keeps your child safe, then it's a good thing. But if you drag your child along in a harness, then you're not using it appropriately. I had a runner. I only used a harness when I was in airports without my husband. I was pregnant with my second child at the time too, so carrying my son in a sling would have been harder. (He hit 35lbs by 18 months). What I did was hold his hand but also have him on the harness. The harness was the plan B. He had to stay with me and hold my hand. But if he dropped it, he couldn't take off running. It was so much less stressful for me too, knowing that I had a plan B for my spirited child. We also brought the harness with us to Disney, with the rule that he would be clipped to it if he didn't stay near us. He was barely 3 and still a runner - but all it took was us having to use it part of one day and he actually learned. (Often, a consequence like this takes my spirited son many, many more tries).

I wouldn't have to use one for my daughter at any time, so I don't. Once you have a spirited very heavy and very fast child in a busy airport by yourself, it's pretty easy to see their benifits. The only negative I had was that DS thought it was funny to drop to all fours and woof like a dog. I got a lot of dirty looks when he did that!

*I didn't read every single post so forgive me if I'm repeating someone. My feeling on treating our kids like dogs is that we use a leash on our dog to keep it safe. Wouldn't you want to keep your child at least as safe as a dog???


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
wow...

I think they are evil







I stand by it! I don't even agree with the "it's better then them getting hurt" argument because i don't understand why you can't just try something else..putting them in an ergo/sling/ etc.? If there are too big for those then they are probably old enough to understand staying with a parent/caregiver etc. I work with kids 2-6, babysat many, and now have my own ds (yes not yet a runner) but have done just fine without leashes and I don't like them at all. I think they look awful and that is just MY MY MY own personal opinion









pass the bean dip







:

Let's just clarify this.

My ds had an ergo. If I went to put him in it, he'd scream. If I'd tried putting him in a stroller, he'd climb out. If I told him to hold my hand for an hour, he'd have had a heck of an armache, and probably have collapsed on the floor in protest.

He had a harness. If I went to put it on, he'd jump for joy and we'd head out the door.

He was way under two.

But I should have forced him in an ergo, just so that I didn't do something that might 'look awful.'







I guess I'd have looked waaaay crunchy though if you'd seen me on the street or in the supermarket!

Such weird thinking, imo.

Sometimes if something looks weird to you, you need to stand back and think abuot why. You have an association - leash = dog. So does the PP who, with her husband, insists on disparagingly calling a harness a 'leash'. (showing her distain for those who use it.) But we are not talking about dogs, nor should the issue be the consciousness of onlookers. We need to consider the consciousness of the child. IMO children on a harness don't feel remotely disrespected. They feel free to use their legs, and to explore their world safely.

I certainly never grew up with a complex about being treated like a dog, and I suspect neither did many people of my generation who grew up in the UK when the use of a harness was just standard. I didn't have twenty-six different strollers by the time I was five, either. I grew up to be a very good walker - as are my children, because they never spent hours in strollers. They walked, often on a harness, and never for one moment felt unhappy about it.

Like pps, I'd be very concerned about one teacher taking six young children out on her own. I know in a lot of preschools, that would not be allowed. I would never allow it with my children, that's for sure.


----------



## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

My mom used to tie me to the tree in the yard. I was the youngest of four and she said there was no other way to keep me near the house cause I wanted to follow my older siblings. My mother was fairly attentive.

I think that this argument is hilarious. Ok, people who live out in the country may not need one and that's great. But dude, you really think that those in NYC have the same level of safety risk?!?! Or any other major city for that matter.

I don't have one yet because my daughter isn't walking, but I will. I may or may not use it, but I will have it as an option. (I'm probably going to fashion a harness out of rope or webbing and not buy one--I'm a cheap bastard.)


----------



## Surfer Rosa (Jun 3, 2005)

i think you have to do what works for you. dd was a good listener until 2.5ish, and then decided to become a runner...while i was pregnant. we have one of the monkey backpacks and i have no qualms about using it at all. she has some freedom to roam, but can't take off. this is totally fine with me, and much better than seeing her take off into the road, a parking lot, a crowd, as she's done recently. i don't think it's degrading, or treating her like a dog, but that i am doing my due diligence and keeping her safe without having to resort to never leaving home!


----------



## milkmommie (Apr 19, 2005)

In a pinch, I have used my maya wrap as a "leash". I put the opening around dc's torso, tightened the rings up and held onto the "tail" of the sling. Worked great, dc was happy and safe.

I used to be one of those Moms of one who thought I knew it all and everyone should just do it like me too. I have four now and I know better. I try to have as much patience and understanding for those Moms of one as I would have wanted when I was one.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
This reminds me of the coffee mug my grandma used to have that said, "My mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts!"


----------



## jauncourt (Mar 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kohlby* 
My feeling on treating our kids like dogs is that we use a leash on our dog to keep it safe. Wouldn't you want to keep your child at least as safe as a dog???











My thinking exactly.


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Hi- OP here. Sooooo...I had one of *those* moments today and made my decision. We're getting a harness.
We live in an apt complex and usually after playing outside, I let him walk by himself into the elevator until we get to our apartment. So as we get out of the elevator, we get out. As I reach to into my bag to get my keys, he bolts back into the elevator and the doors close!







Of course I started flipping out and hitting the buttons. Luckily, the elevator only went down 3 floors and came back up. When the doors opened, there he was, looking very much like the cat that swallowed the goldfish.
Yeah. Harness.


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

How long can we keep this discussion going???







:

Anyone??


----------



## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

I personally think they can be useful in certain situations, such as maybe at the mall, in large crowds/gatherings, events. I haven't used them at all, but I can see them practical in some situations.


----------



## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WilliamsMama* 
Hi- OP here. Sooooo...I had one of *those* moments today and made my decision. We're getting a harness.
We live in an apt complex and usually after playing outside, I let him walk by himself into the elevator until we get to our apartment. So as we get out of the elevator, we get out. As I reach to into my bag to get my keys, he bolts back into the elevator and the doors close!







Of course I started flipping out and hitting the buttons. Luckily, the elevator only went down 3 floors and came back up. When the doors opened, there he was, looking very much like the cat that swallowed the goldfish.
Yeah. Harness.

Wow. that's scary.


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

I posted back on about page 2, I think, about my dd's elevator adventure. I never lost her myself on an elevator, but her Auntie, not quite used to dd's quick reflexes, let her dart in and the door closed behind her. A harness would have helped.

We have a fanny pack toddler harness set:

http://www.inventiveparent.com/cgi-b...n&key=SFTYOPAR

There is a lead that unreels from the parent pack and attaches to the child pack.

I like it because I actually use a fanny pack anyway to keep my hands free when I'm out with my kids in a crowd. Ds loves the teddy bear fanny pack and tried to wear it to bed every night for a week when we first got it.

The lead is more likely to trip a small child than to keep them from falling (as an over-the-shoulder harness might in some cases).

I think this is a good product for the preschool-aged runner, who just needs a little extra security in a crowd but isn't likely to run constantly.


----------



## morganeldi (Nov 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aubergine68* 
I posted back on about page 2, I think, about my dd's elevator adventure. I never lost her myself on an elevator, but her Auntie, not quite used to dd's quick reflexes, let her dart in and the door closed behind her. A harness would have helped.

We have a fanny pack toddler harness set:

http://www.inventiveparent.com/cgi-b...n&key=SFTYOPAR

There is a lead that unreels from the parent pack and attaches to the child pack.

I like it because I actually use a fanny pack anyway to keep my hands free when I'm out with my kids in a crowd. Ds loves the teddy bear fanny pack and tried to wear it to bed every night for a week when we first got it.

The lead is more likely to trip a small child than to keep them from falling (as an over-the-shoulder harness might in some cases).

I think this is a good product for the preschool-aged runner, who just needs a little extra security in a crowd but isn't likely to run constantly.


Oh I like this one... they're all unavailable right now







I'll have to look around and see if anywhere else sells them


----------



## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

If I TALK to my 14 month old, he won't run away?

*HA HA HA HA*

I think actually HAVING your OWN toddler is more "education" than any multiple pieces of paper can give you!


----------



## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

I draw the line at fanny packs, though. I may have become a Mom but I am not going down that road. It is a dark and windy path. The Fanny Pack path.


----------



## atom'smama (Mar 26, 2006)

i see it as a safety device, plain and simple


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
I draw the line at fanny packs, though. I may have become a Mom but I am not going down that road. It is a dark and windy path. The Fanny Pack path.

Lol!

I became a mom 10.5 years ago. It took me about 3 years and 4 cross-country airplane trips before I finally succumbed to the undeniable convenience and total negation of all fashionableness that is the fanny pack....


----------



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
If I TALK to my 14 month old, he won't run away?

*HA HA HA HA*

*No, really...it's true!* After reading this thread yesterday, I went home and had a long discussion with my 14 month old. Everything is fine now! She understands that she shouldn't run away from mommy while we're outside. She understands that cars can hit and kill her now. Bless her heart, she even apologized for her bad behavior in the past. Try it with yours and see if you get the same outcome!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LotusBirthMama* 
Man, whoever had that leash outside idea (sorry, skimming 8 pages here) I am totally stealing that.









: That was me. Thanks! I thought WWIII was going to break out







:

(ETA that wasn't me. Tinkerbelle first mentioned it. Sorry! Great idea nonetheless!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 

Also, my grandmother told me that her mom would use a rope or twine to connect a young child to the clothesline, like with a dog runner I suppose, so she could get her washing hung out to dry without chasing a toddler down the road.

)

It's no different than having a fence. A fence keeps kids within safe boundaries--so does attaching harness to a long leash. I rent and live on a corner of 2 streets--one main/busy street. Even if I didn't rent, I couldn't afford to install a fence right now. I've had nothing but positive comments on harnessing my dd outside. Even if I had negative comments--I'd rather have that than a dead daughter.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
My mom used to tie me to the tree in the yard. I was the youngest of four and she said there was no other way to keep me near the house cause I wanted to follow my older siblings. My mother was fairly attentive.

Awesome


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
I draw the line at fanny packs, though. I may have become a Mom but I am not going down that road. It is a dark and windy path. The Fanny Pack path.











My 74 year old MIL uses hers all the time. Maybe I can get one for her.








I think it's a great idea to have the harness attached at the waist, but the fanny pack thing...not so much! Next I'll be wearing mom jeans!


----------



## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
Wow. that's scary.

I know most of the people who live in this building (I grew up here), but still. He could've run out of the elevator and someone could've snatched him. I was scared to death.


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
*No, really...it's true!* After reading this thread yesterday, I went home and had a long discussion with my 14 month old. Everything is fine now! She understands that she shouldn't run away from mommy while we're outside. She understands that cars can hit and kill her now. Bless her heart, she even apologized for her bad behavior in the past. Try it with yours and see if you get the same outcome!


















:

Ok, MayBaby2007 I just tried this with my 26 mo , using the wording in your post, pretty much. He interrupted me saying reasonably "No, mommy, I gotta go run t'day!", wiggled out of my lap, and ran to the door, took his clothes off, put his froggie boots on and is now trying to open the extra latch that I installed to slow down his habit of naked escape and flight into traffic.

He is pretty verbal for his age and yet he just doesn't get it. What AM I doing wrong?


----------



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Ahhh, I love these threads. Always have to get my 2 cents in.

To those who believe you simply need to enforce holding hands, or give them a choice to hold hands or be carried, or just explain to them and "make" them stay with you. Let me make sure I have this right - the choices are:

Talk to her and remind her to stay near me while walking with me - which means I spend the entire time we're out running after her and am thus unable to get anything else done.

"Make" her hold my hand - which means dragging my screaming kid on the floor because she doesn't want to hold my hand so she goes limp, and I give her nursemaid's elbow.

Put her in the Beco on my back - which means she tries to launch herself out of it while screaming because she doesn't want to be on my back, and hits her head on the ground and knocks herself unconscious, or worse.

Carry her - which means her arching herself back and trying to fling herself out of my arms, while screaming bloody murder and piercing my eardrum because she's right at ear level.

Put her in a stroller - which means she is a writhing screaming mess trying to get out of the stroller because she hates it.

OR...

Put a harness backpack on her and let her walk around - which means she can walk around farther then just my arm's length (i.e. hand holding), but I also don't worry about her bolting away in a crowd.

The first 5 options result in a screaming fit. The last one results in a happy, exploring toddler and a relieved mom who is able to do whatever else it is she needs to be doing. Let's see now, which ever shall I choose?









Restrained by a hand being held, restrained by a carrier, restrained in your arms, restrained in a stroller, restrained in a backpack harness. I fail to see a huge difference, especially if your child LOUDLY protests all options but one. I have to say, I think not using a harness on principle, instead of evaluating your individual child's temperament and instead forcing your child to be unhappy in your arms or holding your hand or in a carrier or a stroller is actually more evil than just buying the damn backpack carrier and letting your child be happy and safe. But that's just MHO









I had a runner who luckily didn't mind the stroller or being carried...so that's what we did. Later on, he'd happily hold a chain of linkadoos attached to the stroller. Super. Then I had a runner who HATED holding hands, strollers, carriers, and being in arms. So I used a backpack a few times in crowded places where she could have easily been lost...and dealt with fits for brief periods other times when I would "make" her do the other things cause it wasn't worth using the harness at those times IMO. But trust me, it was NOT about not talking to her, or being lazy and not wanting to take the time to find another alternative. It was literally the only thing that didn't result in a tantrum of epic proportions.


----------



## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WilliamsMama* 









My 74 year old MIL uses hers all the time. Maybe I can get one for her.








I think it's a great idea to have the harness attached at the waist, but the fanny pack thing...not so much! Next I'll be wearing mom jeans!

laughupFunniest.Video.EVER! I swear my MIL is in this "ad". My favorite line: "Afterall, you're not a woman any more-you're a mom!" I needed that laugh today. Thanks!


----------



## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Ahhh, I love these threads. Always have to get my 2 cents in.

Yeah, only on MDC can you find nearly 200 posts (and counting!) debating something as seemingly innocent as a harness! I have to admit, I've gotten quite a bit of entertainment out of this the last few days!


----------



## feministmom (Feb 11, 2007)

The4OfUs--I couldn't have said it better!! I love my harness for the freedom it gives my DD and the peace of mind it gives me...She loves her "backpack" too.

At the zoo a few weekends ago, she insisted that grandma hold the tail:

__
https://flic.kr/p/2758869334


----------



## Satori (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feministmom* 
The4OfUs--I couldn't have said it better!! I love my harness for the freedom it gives my DD and the peace of mind it gives me...She loves her "backpack" too.

At the zoo a few weekends ago, she insisted that grandma hold the tail:

__
https://flic.kr/p/2758869334


ok, this is freaky, you see that guy with the beard in the right of the picture? I swear I have seen him no less then 4 times now in the past 3 days. I don't know why but he catches my eye every time. I swear it is the SAME guy and I am on the other side of the US!

ok, so I looked at a few of your pic's, is he your DH? Does he have a twin? I'm not kidding, the guy looks IDENTICAL right down to the style of clothes and sandals.


----------



## feministmom (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Satori* 
ok, this is freaky, you see that guy with the beard in the right of the picture? I swear I have seen him no less then 4 times now in the past 3 days. I don't know why but he catches my eye every time. I swear it is the SAME guy and I am on the other side of the US!

ok, so I looked at a few of your pic's, is he your DH? Does he have a twin? I'm not kidding, the guy looks IDENTICAL right down to the style of clothes and sandals.

That is too funny!! Yes, that's my DH...not a twin. But he was born in LA (I saw on your blog that you're in SoCal)...but he was born at home, so I don't think there's any possibility of twins being separated at birth. If you get a chance, snap a pic of the mystery man and send it to me ;-)


----------



## Satori (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feministmom* 
That is too funny!! Yes, that's my DH...not a twin. But he was born in LA (I saw on your blog that you're in SoCal)...but he was born at home, so I don't think there's any possibility of twins being separated at birth. If you get a chance, snap a pic of the mystery man and send it to me ;-)

lol, I'll try, I can imagine asking if I can take his pic cause he looks like this guy I saw online


----------



## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

I have an autistic runner. He's usually good about holding my hand, but now that I'm pregnant, the harness sounds like it could be a good idea for when he does not want to be in the stroller or when I do not want to take the stroller--especially as I get bigger!!!


----------



## mama crane (Apr 11, 2008)

I haven't had time to read all the posts on this thread..mostly skimmed, but to the OP: I was a crazy runner...my mom walked everywhere with me ( I would never stay in a stroller) and couldn't keep track of me and the groceries or whatever she was carrying so she used a jingle-bell harness. My brother who was 13 at the time was mortified LOL, but I don't remember being bothered much...I remember pretending to be a pony...I think it was how my mom framed wearing it. I am sure she thought of some way to make it fun. I laugh about it now especially when she bought my brother one for his DS when they traveled to Laos. To her, my safety was the most important thing.


----------



## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks to the PP who brought up the fence thing- I was thinking it, but haven't had time ti post .

When you think of it, a fence is about as impersonal and demeaning a form of restraint as there can be. A fence says, "YOU are not capable of control, the only thing left is to lock you away." But we all agree that fences are fine, and are debating Harnesses! So what does a harness really say? It says, "I love you, and I'll keep you safe, and as long as you HAVE control, I'll give you your space, and some self determination."

I don't have a fence, but I probably will when it becomes necessary. I don't have a harness, but I'll run out and buy one as soon as I need one. Right now, DS is happy in the stroller, he knows how to behave (well, he does throw his shoes!







) and I can keep his curious fingers out of the peaches on market day. One day he will not be happy there, and we'll deal with that then.









I too have been vastly entertained by this thread!


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
Let's just clarify this.

My ds had an ergo. If I went to put him in it, he'd scream. If I'd tried putting him in a stroller, he'd climb out. If I told him to hold my hand for an hour, he'd have had a heck of an armache, and probably have collapsed on the floor in protest.

He had a harness. If I went to put it on, he'd jump for joy and we'd head out the door.

He was way under two.

But I should have forced him in an ergo, just so that I didn't do something that might 'look awful.'







I guess I'd have looked waaaay crunchy though if you'd seen me on the street or in the supermarket!

Such weird thinking, imo.

Sometimes if something looks weird to you, you need to stand back and think abuot why. You have an association - leash = dog. So does the PP who, with her husband, insists on disparagingly calling a harness a 'leash'. (showing her distain for those who use it.) But we are not talking about dogs, nor should the issue be the consciousness of onlookers. We need to consider the consciousness of the child. IMO children on a harness don't feel remotely disrespected. They feel free to use their legs, and to explore their world safely.

I certainly never grew up with a complex about being treated like a dog, and I suspect neither did many people of my generation who grew up in the UK when the use of a harness was just standard. I didn't have twenty-six different strollers by the time I was five, either. I grew up to be a very good walker - as are my children, because they never spent hours in strollers. They walked, often on a harness, and never for one moment felt unhappy about it.

Like pps, I'd be very concerned about one teacher taking six young children out on her own. I know in a lot of preschools, that would not be allowed. I would never allow it with my children, that's for sure.

Actually, the ratio in our state is 1 teacher to 10 preschoolers (however, in MOST situations, we take 2 teachers since we have 20 kids (max in one day) to 4 or 5 teachers. Also one teacher would never take 10 (just to clarify)

still think harnesses are evil though (duck) OP asked our opinions and for some reason because i don't like them people feel the need to defend them ? (shrug face...sorry don't have time to skim through the faces, but you know which one i mean







).


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andrea* 
Well, you didnt answer anyones questions about other possible options in their individual and valid cases, all you did was make a broad statement about how you feel that since your families children survived that means that their scenarios are representative of the entire earths population.

Is it safe to assume that you are not on this thread for any constructive means, but just to get a rise out of everyone?

Interesting thought... except that I was one of the first few people to answer (so i don't get the "rise" thing in which you mention...plus that's generally not why i post on MDC), then my words got all twisted ( If you read my original post that it was MY opinion...which i believe is sort of what op was looking for?), then i tried to re explain MY opinion while using MY own logic for why I don't like them...


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *felix23* 
Just to clarify, are you saying that all of us that use child safety harnesses could avoid them by just "talking" to our children? As I said in my other posts, I have worked with a variety of ages in daycare and I did not need any type child harness. But with my own child all the methods that worked while I was a preschool teacher do not work. Of course, she gets it honest, I spent my entire chidhood doing really dumb, dangerous things that my parents had told me over and over again not to do. Right after I got hurt I would always think, "Wow, I should have known not to do that." But before hand I would always get caught up in the moment and act without thinking. My mom used one of the wrist leashes with me because I would constantly wonder off out in public. She used to tell me over and over again to stay with her, but I would always forget until I got lost. I can understand if you don't want to use them, but I just don't understand how after reading this thread you don't see that sometimes they are necessary.

To clarify for you , NOPE not what i was saying at all...I was responding to someone else's post as to why i PERSONALLY do not use them and/or see them as necessary. The tricky thing i'm having with this thread is I dont' know how to multi quote...so it seems that I answer one person's issue with my pp and then someone else twists it to something else (not that i'm saying that you are doing that, i see that you just want clarification...) I also notice you said your mom had a wrist leash for you and to be completely honest, i did not even think those were invented all that long ago (the whole leash concept). My own personal reason for being on the "against" side is that that is my personal opinion. Apparently I am the only one in the entire MDC agains leashes/harnesses whatever you want to call them and therefore i'm being made fun of/called a "better mother" in a snarky way or whatever, If i knew how to multi quote and if someone just read each of my posts in order maybe it would be easier to understand? Not sure...

Oh well...pass the bean dip .... again.... hehe








: hugs and rainbows too


----------



## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andrea* 
Id like you to spend the day with dd. She is 22 months old and she has delayed language skills. She DOES NOT COMPREHEND when you talk to her. At all. Good luck trying to explain safety in the street to her when I can't even get her to understand more than 10 single words.
I am due tomorrow. I have a hernia and PGP. I CANNOT sling or carry her. I CANNOT run. Dd is a runner. She is also a genius when it comes to problem solving. She can figure out how to get out of the stroller in seconds, how to open any kind of 'baby proofing'.
I cannot carry her. Even dh has trouble as she bucks and tantrums and head-butts and scratches. Try explaining to her to walk calmly beside you holding your hand? LMAO, she doesnt even know her own name yet! Just try grabbing her hand and see what happens. She only tolerates touch on her own terms, so instead youll have her going limp and throwing herself backwards onto the hard floor.

Id like to see what youd recommend since you think its so easy for me to just 'try something else' instead of use her monkey harness *(Which we got at WALMART for $14.97 btw...for the poster who asked)*
Maybe we should just spend the entire summer inside the house?

Or does letting her explore and enjoy the summer from the safety of her harness sound like a good idea now?

Or how about the mom I met at the mall the other day. A man was SCREAMING obscenities at her because her son was on a harness.
Apparently her 4 yo son has autism and she is recovering from hip surgery. Using the harness is the ONLY way they can get out and about seeing as he is not capable developmentally of listening yet and she is physically incapable of pushing him or carrying him.
Maybe they should just never leave the house too.

People who dont fit into your boxes dont deserve compassion and understanding anyways, right?

ETA: I really hope you get twin runners for your next kids so you can eat your words.

why the harshness in your post? Are you having a bad day?









I don't even feel the need to "defend" myself against your post since i did not insinuate anything you've described, but felt the need to respond because i can only assume you were feeling yucky somehow when reading my pp. If that is the case i am sorry and offereing you







:

I really don't understand the "people...boxes..." statement as I in no way told you not to use your walmart leash...I just said simply answered the question with my own opinion. I know you really really want me to change my mind and you really really want me to have running twins, but i can pretty much STILL tell you no









and now, i run away from this thread! There has to be something more interesting in TAO right now anyhow! lol


----------



## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

Wow, I did not have time to read this whole thread, but I vote YES for occasional harness use. I use ours so rarely that my dd is always excited and happy to see her monkey. I bought it because there are times when I anticipate that I might just be distracted (ie. airport, county fair). And she likes to run and explore. In that one moment of not paying 100% attention to the light of my life, something terrible could happen. Not worth the risk, I am not superhuman, I cannot guarantee I will never look away at the wrong time.


----------



## crazyrunningmama (Dec 16, 2006)

To multiquote, you click on the box on the bottom right that has the "+ on it and go through all the posts you want to quote, then click the quote button on the very last post you want to quote. You can also delete parts of posts so that only the part you are addressing remains.


----------



## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

You can also just copy in text you want to quote and put [ quote ] at the start and [ / quote ] at the end...except take out all the spaces I put in so I wouldn't really put quotes around what I was saying







.

To make it clearer who said what, I *think* you can change the starting quote command to [ quote = username ]...again taking out all the spaces. Right?

Let me try that:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher*
If i knew how to multi quote and if someone just read each of my posts in order maybe it would be easier to understand?


----------



## sweetieberlin (Mar 30, 2007)

I havent read the responses..

but here is my thought,,,

It really depends on the child.. If the kid is happy, and able to explore, whats the REAL problem with it.?? isnt that what we do as parents, choose the best things for our children? while it isnt right for all kids, def. not mine, I dont see a problem, when you have a child who wants to run around, who doesnt want to be in arms, or in carrier.. and could get lost in a crowd, or whatnot.. the child is happy, the parents feel safe..

I do have to say though, I dont think I could use one myself, it looks much like a dog on a leash.. plus my child wants to be carried everywhere.. however if I did have a runner, I would have to rethink...


----------



## coco4cloth (Feb 10, 2005)

Holly I invite you to come to Missouri, I'll give you my grocery list and you and my 2 year old can go shopping.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

If you need it, use it, is what I say.

I'd bet money that children were tethered in some instances even prehistorically. A small round or rectangular home with a hearth in the center and a 2 year old inside -- gotta keep toddler away from the cook fire.


----------



## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I just don't get that telling people something that keeps their child protected is wrong.

You can't argue with people who refuse to open their minds.

I will just say that one day last year I was shopping at Target. My 3 yr old. insisted on walking. I had a long talk with her on the bench outside of the store about sticking together. we were in Toddler's clothes and I turned to show her something and she was totally and completly gone. GONE! I started screaming her name and name and running through the racks of clothes. Finally I heard her let out a loud sceam. She had ran (for fun, mind you) between the clothes to the farthest end of the kids clothes section. Some one could have taken her. I will not risk that again.


----------



## milkmommie (Apr 19, 2005)

Holly, anytime you make a blanket statement like "leashes are evil" or "parents just need to talk to their kids to make them stay close/not run", you're bound to get people riled up. You have every right to your opinion but I think it's important to make the destinction between "everyone should do it my way. simple." and "this is what works for us".
Just my 2cents









and I would definately use a harness if it was the best way to keep my child happy AND safe. I had the horrible experience of popping my little one's hand out of joint when we were holding hands and walking and she fell.







A harness would have saved her a lot of pain. oh, and she's 18mos so I couldn't have "talked" to her about "staying with Mom".
sorry nak


----------



## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Erm, Hollytheteacher, you're surprised people are arguing with you? I mean, you are entitled to your opinion, but when everyone else is supporting their opinion with logic and explanations of their experience, and you just say "nope, still think leashes are evil - I'm not giving any particular reasons, they're just evil" with no explanation or experience, yeah, you kinda come across sounding a bit snotty.

I've read tons of these threads. It always seems like the pro-leash people defend their leashes by explaining why they are necessary to keep children safe, and some children don't mind them, and the anti-leash people seem to have only two arguements - the "treating kids like dogs" arguement and the "don't want to restrict my kid's freedom" arguement. The pro-leash people then state the obvious - kid's safety is more important than a dog's, and a leash is the least restrictive safety device when one is needed. Then the anti-leash people just stop posting.

I started out with no particular opinion on the matter, but at this point I'm thinking that there probably aren't any better anti-leash arguements, or any explanations as to why a leash is worse than a stroller or a carrier (assuming it is used properly, etc). Soooo, I'm thinking that leashes aren't so bad. Or at least that there aren't any arguements against them that stand up to scrutiny.


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

If a leash is used appropriately, and with compassion, it is at least as useful and "necessary" as a sling/Ergo/stroller. I think that the uproar here is one poster's opinion that they are "evil". I think that any tool that a parent uses with their child appropriately that is called "evil" will end up raising hackles. I know that if I was told by a friend that using baby gates was evil, I would definitely get defensive. Baby gates are tools that allow my son to explore his environment, yet keep him safe. I know some people believe that children will learn to go up and down stairs safely on their own and not get hurt, but after he tumbled down my basement stairs at 8 months old, you better believe I installed them at the tops and bottoms of all stairs in my apartment.

I guess my point is, that using terms like "harnesses are evil" just isn't conducive to a civil discussion about a safety tool that some parents need in order to keep their child safe and happy. I understand that some people hold opinions that others do not agree with, but maybe we can keep our language a bit more open and accepting of others choices.

If you disagree with harnesses, maybe you can either not post to this thread, or simply say, "I don't plan to use one with my child". We really are all in this together. I am so sad to see all of the flaming that has gone on in this thread. We are all mamas, and we need to support each other rather than attack one another. We also need to understand that none of us can truly appreciate the individual situation that each of us lives with on a day to day basis. Every child is different, and every mama parents her child slightly differently than any other mama. It is simply not possible to make blanket statements about topics like this without offending someone.

Peace mamas.


----------



## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
To clarify for you , NOPE not what i was saying at all...I was responding to someone else's post as to why i PERSONALLY do not use them and/or see them as necessary. The tricky thing i'm having with this thread is I dont' know how to multi quote...so it seems that I answer one person's issue with my pp and then someone else twists it to something else (not that i'm saying that you are doing that, i see that you just want clarification...) I also notice you said your mom had a wrist leash for you and to be completely honest, i did not even think those were invented all that long ago (the whole leash concept). My own personal reason for being on the "against" side is that that is my personal opinion. Apparently I am the only one in the entire MDC agains leashes/harnesses whatever you want to call them and therefore i'm being made fun of/called a "better mother" in a snarky way or whatever, If i knew how to multi quote and if someone just read each of my posts in order maybe it would be easier to understand? Not sure...

Oh well...pass the bean dip .... again.... hehe








: hugs and rainbows too










I'm almost 30 so they have been around for awhile. And I can totally respect that you personally don't want to use them, but I hope that you don't judge those of us who need them.


----------



## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

OK, I'm through page 4...I'll give my experience and then go back to finish.









Didn't need one with DS - I had one, not a huge runner - and used a stroller or my Baby Bjorn (before I found MDC and became a sling addict







) Enter DD, a HUGE runner and I invested in the monkey one from Target. As people said, it becomes a whole new world with two (or more) mobile (and FAST little ones.) And, FTR, I've been known to wear DS on my back in an Ergo and DD in the front with a ring sling, so I've got my babywearing street cred.







.









They were so-so for us. My worst experience was with DD alone. I needed to get new sneakers, and knowing I was going to a huge store with no shopping carts and had to sit to try them on, I opted for the leash/harness. That. Was embarassing. I tried to keep her near me, and ended up sitting on one end of it while I rushed as fast as possible to try them on while DD pulled at the leash like a dog ready to run.







: I'm sure people were thinking what a horrid mother I was - and I just wanted to get the heck out of there. DD was laughing hysterically, though, thinking it was soooo funny.

Never again









Buuuuut, it worked really well in the New England Aquarium on a Saturday. It was dark, super crowded, and DD wanted to be eye level to the tanks and get up close. That's where it came super-handy and was a excellent safety device.

There's nothing inherently wrong with them - and I just gave you two examples of a "do" and "don't" for their use.









Oh, and like the PP, my children listen VERY well to outside "authority" figures -like teachers. To me? Not so much.


----------



## Mommoo (Jun 26, 2008)

I was interested in this thread and am happy that I saw all of the supportive posts that I did. I can't make it through the whole thing though. So, here's why I'm here.







I have a 21 month old who has been walking since he was 9 months old. I haven't resorted to the harness with leash yet, but I'm seriously considering it. I had felt like they weren't for me until recently, but I hadn't put much thought into it. Now I have a very busy, independent and curious boy who will often want to get out of his stroller or ergo to walk. I have insisted that he hold my hand when safety was an issue, or given him the choice of being in the ergo, in my arms, or holding my hand. I also think a lot about how uncomfortable it is for him to have his arm above his head like that, let alone how uncomfortable it is for me to have to slightly lean to hold his hand. He's recently taken to forcefully prying his hand out of mine and physically forcing out of my arms. So, in order to prevent tantrums and everybody being upset, I think that he might enjoy a harness and leash. I do reason with him and explain safety, often it works, sometimes it doesn't. I don't feel that putting the leash on him would communicate that I don't trust him, it would communicate that I want him safe. To be honest, I don't trust that he wouldn't run out into the street if he weren't somehow restrained, either in the stroller, ergo, by my hand or in my arms.
I recently stopped a mama with a harnessed toddler to ask her about it. She cringed, I think she was afraid that I was going to criticize. I felt bad for her. I just wanted to know if her toddler seemed happier to be harnessed than in a stroller or carried.
I know my ds needs to run and explore as independently as is safe. So, yay harnesses?!


----------



## milkmommie (Apr 19, 2005)

Glad this thread popped up again.
I bought a harness this weekend.








Thank you for everyone's thoughtful responses on this topic. I may not have occasion to use the harness very often but I'm glad to have it if needed. DD is 19mos and getting more independent every day. There have been times when she wants to walk and it's not the safest environment for her to be walking. I've resorted to holding her hand to keep her safe. But if she falls down, it pulls her arm and seems most uncomfortable for both of us.
Having a harness is really going to give us just that much MORE freedom for her to explore her world.
Yay, harness!!







:


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I have actually been using mine quite a bit since this thread first came up. DS seems to really enjoy the freedom that it allows him, and he is getting extremely good at sticking very close by me when he has his harness on. If he gets to the end of the "leash", he stops, turns back and comes to me. I also try to really keep up with him, so he doesn't ever get to the end. If he is going somewhere I don't want him to, I tend to ask him to stop and grab his hand, or pick him up. There have definitely been times, lately, where he has been near something that I didn't want him to be near, and I couldn't get to him quite quickly enough, and the leash has saved us.

Definitely an extremely useful parenting tool for us!


----------

