# SIL Rant/Vent/Purge!



## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

NM. Apparently venting is no longer allowed on MDC.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

it annoys me when people don't grow up when they get pg. you have a baby you can't be one anymore.









who lets a 5 wk old CIO? can you take her Breast pump? i mean she's not using it.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm sorry, I know it can be really hard to see. I have someone very similar in my life too. I would ask her if you could borrow the breast pump since she obviously isn't using it and you very much need it right now.


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## ell (Jan 3, 2009)

I'd ask to borrow the pump if she isn't using it.


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## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 

And I am







that we spent precious money on a breastpump that she isn't even using. I actually have to go rent a pump for $80/mo because my supply dropped and my PIS isn't working anymore.

If you got this far, thanks, I just wanted to vent my frustration, sadness, disappointment, and anger. And I am sure the baby will grow up to be fine (though probably not as healthy as could be) and DH's whole family will be thinking "told you so" because they all think I am crazy for being AP.

These feelings aren't about her. These feelings are about you feeling judged by your husband's family. You were hoping to get an ally for AP in your SIL and when you didn't, you got angry. You're judging her harshly because you feel judged by the family.

You don't sound confident in your choice to do AP. It might help if you focus more on loving yourself and your own choices, and worry less about what your SIL is doing. You can't share or educate anything about AP when you're pissed off about it. I don't listen to people who judge me or try to tell me things when they're pissed off about something. I don't think most people do.

(And stop buying her stuff to make her do parenting your way! It's a waste of your money, and it's just going to keep pissing you off.)


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
left baby at 5 weeks to go out, doesn't care if people wash their hands or gets in baby's face

Are these things bad? This surprises me... I loved getting out of the house or leaving baby at grandma's for a brief time, no matter how old they were. And we love our germs here, gimme gimme gimme - makes kis stronger... our kids are never sick, and we've never made anyone wash hands. Strangers are allowed to hold the baby, we love to share them so much!

Anyways, I guess my point is, some of the stuff that's raising your blood pressure is not "bad" - just different than you do it. Maybe if you step back just a tad you won't be so upset?

I agree about the CIO - that's nothing short of abuse. But there's not much you can do to change the mind about someone that thinks strangers on a mainstream message board are always right. (((hugs)))


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I'll be honest here.

When you give a gift, you need to let it go. It's up to the recipient what they do with the gift.

Your SIL may very well be an immature PIA (I think we all know people like that) but I don't think choosing to formula feed makes her a bad mother. It's just her choice.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverTam* 
These feelings aren't about her. These feelings are about you feeling judged by your husband's family. You were hoping to get an ally for AP in your SIL and when you didn't, you got angry. You're judging her harshly because you feel judged by the family.

You don't sound confident in your choice to do AP. It might help if you focus more on loving yourself and your own choices, and worry less about what your SIL is doing. You can't share or educate anything about AP when you're pissed off about it. I don't listen to people who judge me or try to tell me things when they're pissed off about something. I don't think most people do.

(And stop buying her stuff to make her do parenting your way! It's a waste of your money, and it's just going to keep pissing you off.)

This is great advice.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverTam* 
These feelings aren't about her. These feelings are about you feeling judged by your husband's family. You were hoping to get an ally for AP in your SIL and when you didn't, you got angry. You're judging her harshly because you feel judged by the family.

You don't sound confident in your choice to do AP. It might help if you focus more on loving yourself and your own choices, and worry less about what your SIL is doing. You can't share or educate anything about AP when you're pissed off about it. I don't listen to people who judge me or try to tell me things when they're pissed off about something. I don't think most people do.

(And stop buying her stuff to make her do parenting your way! It's a waste of your money, and it's just going to keep pissing you off.)

I found this entire post offensive. I knew my SIL wouldn't be AP, that was a given. But she DID express the desire to breastfeed & seemed to understand the importance. She *wanted* a pump - hence why we got it for her. I most purposefully did NOT impose my views on her, b/c I knew she didn't share them.

I am perfectly comfortable with all my AP choices and don't give a fig what his family (or anyone else for that matter) thinks. I am used to people thinking I am unusual in my AP ways. I wouldn't still be doing it 14months later if I was unsure.

The title of my post was rant/vent/purge. I am frustrated that my SIL is making choices (big & small) that I think are poor. Actually, that's not true - my biggest frustration is that she isn't taking any steps to be better for her child. She is not doing any research into what is good for the baby or not, she is just jejunely meandering along without any real thought or concern. I just think if you are going to be a parent you need to make sure you are doing what is best for your child - evn if it is something I disagree with, if you have conviction and reasoning why it is best then I can respect that, if you are just wishy washy and doing whatever without rhyme or reason I don't.

I think you read a lot into my post that wasn't there and it came across in an offensive way.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama* 
I'll be honest here.

When you give a gift, you need to let it go. It's up to the recipient what they do with the gift.

Your SIL may very well be an immature PIA (I think we all know people like that) but I don't think choosing to formula feed makes her a bad mother. It's just her choice.

I think a mom who is capable of breastfeeding, yet CHOOSES not to, is selfish and yeah, kinda bad.


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## RoseDuperre (Oct 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ell* 
I'd ask to borrow the pump if she isn't using it.

I definitely agree.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
Are these things bad? This surprises me... I loved getting out of the house or leaving baby at grandma's for a brief time, no matter how old they were. And we love our germs here, gimme gimme gimme - makes kis stronger... our kids are never sick, and we've never made anyone wash hands. Strangers are allowed to hold the baby, we love to share them so much!

Anyways, I guess my point is, some of the stuff that's raising your blood pressure is not "bad" - just different than you do it. Maybe if you step back just a tad you won't be so upset?

I agree about the CIO - that's nothing short of abuse. But there's not much you can do to change the mind about someone that thinks strangers on a mainstream message board are always right. (((hugs)))

I know not everyone feels the same way about this stuff (which is fine). I just think it is gross to have smokers hold a 7 day old baby without washing hands first or getting in the baby's face.

My biggest







was the CIO and FF. The rest was just me being whiny!


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## Ruthie's momma (May 2, 2008)

It is always sad to learn about babies not getting the love and attention and need. But, _please_ ask to borrow that breast pump.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I know not everyone feels the same way about this stuff (which is fine). I just think it is gross to have smokers hold a 7 day old baby without washing hands first or getting in the baby's face.

My biggest







was the CIO and FF. The rest was just me being whiny!









Yeah, the smoking thing would tick me off too! No worries hun, I didn't get the idea that you were wanting an ally in AP. I think you are probably just annoyed that you dished out a good chunk of change to someone who probably didn't even intend to breastfeed from the get-go.

Lesson learned. Don't spend a lot of money on a gift that may not get used the way you want it. Buy clothes, or something, then you won't have to feel used, or upset about the gift. Like someone said, you gave it, it's over, and other then asking to borrow it, there isn't much you can do


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

Here is the thing: Someone might give you some baby bottles because they truely believe that the toxins etc that your baby might get through your breastmilk is harmful to baby (even if they are misled, doesn't mean they can't honestly believe it)... you either choose to use it or choose to not use it!

It is the same with your SIL and the breastpump! You were under no obligation to buy it for her and she is under no obligation to use it. If she has chosen to FF, ask her if you can borrow the pump or buy is "second-hand" from her. If she used the breastpump, you would still have had to rent a breastpump for yourself.

You are under no obligation to leave your 5 week old with someone whilst you go out, and she is under no obligation not to do so!

You are under no obligation to let your 5 week old CIO, and she is under no obligation to be AP.

The choices she makes are her own.... just as your choices are your own! Neither her or your choices should be a reflection on the other person.

I am not paranoid about babies and germs.... I would have issues with smokers holding my baby, but unless it is someone who is going to be holding my baby often, I would probably just let it go!

Allow her to parent her child as she seems fit! Many a young, immature mama who did it all "wrong" ended up with wonderful kids who have a wonderful relationship with their mom!


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:

*
She did a drugged up hospital birth, and did everything according to the medical mode*l. Lets baby CIO, *left baby at 5 weeks to go out*, *doesn't care if people wash their hands or gets in baby's face, and is formula feeding*. She *COULD breastfeed*, but chooses not to. She has a pump and support, but is ignoring it.
Sorry but the bolded are none of your business. And she didn't ask for the breast pump. Some of that stuff suggests laziness and maybe not the very best judgment, but those aren't things that make her a bad mother. Just different.

I have super-crunchy SIL's that I have felt really judged and pushed by. I make choices that work for my family. Mostly they're AP, but sometimes not as much as they would like. The pushiness and judging doesn't motivate me to be more like them, but to not want to discuss parenting with them at all. My baby, my choice. My kids are healthy and happy.


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## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I found this entire post offensive. I knew my SIL wouldn't be AP, that was a given. But she DID express the desire to breastfeed & seemed to understand the importance. She *wanted* a pump - hence why we got it for her. I most purposefully did NOT impose my views on her, b/c I knew she didn't share them.

If she's as selfish and immature as you say she is you shouldn't be surprised that she changed her mind about breastfeeding. I would have been weary about giving it to her in the first place. Instead I would have shelled out less cash for breast pads and storage bags. Still supporting her but not dumping a ton of money on a "maybe".

Quote:

The title of my post was rant/vent/purge. I am frustrated that my SIL is making choices (big & small) that I think are poor. Actually, that's not true - my biggest frustration is that she isn't taking any steps to be better for her child. She is not doing any research into what is good for the baby or not, she is just jejunely meandering along without any real thought or concern. I just think if you are going to be a parent you need to make sure you are doing what is best for your child - evn if it is something I disagree with, if you have conviction and reasoning why it is best then I can respect that, if you are just wishy washy and doing whatever without rhyme or reason I don't.
Again, if she's that selfish and immature I wouldn't be surprised if having a child doesn't cause her to do a 180. Some women get pregnant and it causes something to click in their heads, as a result they turn a new leaf. Other women go on about their lives like the whole pregnancy/baby thing was a blip in the road. If she's that self absorbed don't expect some radical change (hope & pray for it but don't expect it). Maybe she tried to block it out while pregnant because of the whole stress of the situation. Maybe now that the child is here staring at her in the face, needing to be held by her needing her love maybe that will cause her to slowly change. Maybe it won't.

It sounds like your frustration comes from the fact that you worked really hard to have your baby and have devoted yourself to him. She, on the other hand, got knocked up on accident and isn't treating the baby like you perceive a baby should be treated. That's fine but try to work through it, get over it and be a good aunt (and a good example) to the child.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

It is hard to be around someone who is making choices that you see as not the best.

Is your SIL using the pump at all? Does she still have it? Yes, a gift is a gift but if she still has it and isn't using it, I don't think you'd be wrong to ask her to borrow it because yours is broken.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I can sense your frustration.

You're not going to change her--only she can do that. We all get to make our own choices about how to raise our kids. Try to let it go, and next time don't spend so much on a gift.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
She is not doing any research into what is good for the baby or not, she is just jejunely meandering along without any real thought or concern.

Maybe she's trusting her instincts.


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## mamaUK (Jul 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 

She did a drugged up hospital birth, and did everything according to the medical model. Lets baby CIO, left baby at 5 weeks to go out, doesn't care if people wash their hands or gets in baby's face, and is formula feeding. She COULD breastfeed, but chooses not to. She has a pump and support, but is ignoring it.

I am so







for that baby. Mama just doesn't care. I knew this poor baby would be saddled with a mother who is still essentially a child herself and does not make healthy, educated choices in her own life. But I did (naively) think this might be a turning point for her.

And I am







that we spent precious money on a breastpump that she isn't even using. I actually have to go rent a pump for $80/mo because my supply dropped and my PIS isn't working anymore.

.

-Just wanted to say that just b/c mums who choose to use pain relief during child labour does not make them instantly bad mothers.

-Forumula feeding also does not instantly make a bad mother.

-Did you ask her if she WANTED a breast pump before you spent your money?

- I'm sorry, but your post sounded extremely judgemental to your SIL and anyone else who has a 'drugged up' hospital birth, uses formula and doesn't want to pump.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

People do CIO because they've got an instinct to let babies cry? How does that make any sense for the preservation of the species?


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## mamaUK (Jul 9, 2008)

I just read the other replies and saw that you mentioned she did ask for a breast pump. Even though she asked for one, with all the hormones and everything it is quite normal to change your mind about choices you have made while you are pregnant after you have given birth and feel completely different. I still don't think she should be judged so harshly for it.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

IdahoMom said:


> Sorry but the bolded are none of your business. And *she didn't ask for the breast pump.* Some of that stuff suggests laziness and maybe not the very best judgment, but those aren't things that make her a bad mother. Just different.
> QUOTE]
> 
> She did ask for it.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now* 
If she's as selfish and immature as you say she is you shouldn't be surprised that she changed her mind about breastfeeding. I would have been weary about giving it to her in the first place. Instead I would have shelled out less cash for breast pads and storage bags. Still supporting her but not dumping a ton of money on a "maybe".

Again, if she's that selfish and immature I wouldn't be surprised if having a child doesn't cause her to do a 180. Some women get pregnant and it causes something to click in their heads, as a result they turn a new leaf. Other women go on about their lives like the whole pregnancy/baby thing was a blip in the road. If she's that self absorbed don't expect some radical change (hope & pray for it but don't expect it). Maybe she tried to block it out while pregnant because of the whole stress of the situation. Maybe now that the child is here staring at her in the face, needing to be held by her needing her love maybe that will cause her to slowly change. Maybe it won't.

It sounds like your frustration comes from the fact that you worked really hard to have your baby and have devoted yourself to him. She, on the other hand, got knocked up on accident and isn't treating the baby like you perceive a baby should be treated. That's fine but try to work through it, get over it and be a good aunt (and a good example) to the child.

This was helpful, thanks. As much as I ranted here, I haven't said anything to her IRL. I have used the internet to vent all my judgemental, grumbly thoughts. IRL I have been completely supportive of her choices, because it is, in fact, her baby.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaUK* 
-Just wanted to say that just b/c mums who choose to use pain relief during child labour does not make them instantly bad mothers.

-Forumula feeding also does not instantly make a bad mother.

-Did you ask her if she WANTED a breast pump before you spent your money?

- I'm sorry, but your post sounded extremely judgemental to your SIL and anyone else who has a 'drugged up' hospital birth, uses formula and doesn't want to pump.


I am judgemental, yes I am, in my own personal thoughts and here, anonymously venting about her to people who I thought would be somewhat sympathetic (honestly, some of the responses made me check to see if I was still on MDC!) I *know* everyone has thoughts like these. I chose to vent mine here instead of IRL, b/c it does boil down to the fact that it is none of my business.

My DH is pissed too. We wouldn't have spent the $$ on the pump if she didn't say she was planning on bf'ing. She is super low income and the baby daddy is also super low income. We thought we were being as supportive as possible b/c she probably couldn't have afforded the pump on her own.


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## mamaUK (Jul 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
My DH is pissed too. We wouldn't have spent the $$ on the pump if she didn't say she was planning on bf'ing. She is super low income and the baby daddy is also super low income. We thought we were being as supportive as possible b/c she probably couldn't have afforded the pump on her own.

Fair enough, it sounds like you and your husband were being very generous when you bought it, I know that they are expensive and it must be irritating to see it not being used.

I'm just super sensitive to the formula issue, I wasn't able to breastfeed b/c I was/ still am in remission from cancer so I guess I felt pretty horrible about having to/needing to formula feed as I had to look after my own health so i didn't slip from being in remission and also didn't want to give my LO any bad stuff from the chemo I'd had previously. Sorry if I came across bad, just feel defensive about it............

I also had a epidural....................







child birth was frigging' painful!!! LOL

I hope you feel better soon.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

I totally understand your feelings. In fact, I know exactly what you are going through. We struggled for a long time to get pregnant too and my brother and his girlfriend got pregnant by accident. They parent my nephew in a completely different manner than we do. Very mainstream, spanking, CIO, the whole nine yards.

Here is how I deal with it:

I just try to love on my nephew is much as I possibly can. I want him to know that he always has me to be there for him. I try to support my brother and his girlfriend as much as I can, but I just don't engage in any conversation about child-rearing. It isn't worth my time or the rise in my blood pressure. I know that they are doing the best they can. It is frustrating at times though and when I feel myself getting that way, I just smother my nephew with kisses instead.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
People do CIO because they've got an instinct to let babies cry? How does that make any sense for the preservation of the species?

One can't approach that with a bargepole without getting into trouble with the UA.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaUK* 
Fair enough, it sounds like you and your husband were being very generous when you bought it, I know that they are expensive and it must be irritating to see it not being used.

I'm just super sensitive to the formula issue, I wasn't able to breastfeed b/c I was/ still am in remission from cancer so I guess I felt pretty horrible about having to/needing to formula feed as I had to look after my own health so i didn't slip from being in remission and also didn't want to give my LO any bad stuff from the chemo I'd had previously. Sorry if I came across bad, just feel defensive about it............

I also had a epidural....................







child birth was frigging' painful!!! LOL

I hope you feel better soon.

















I hope in no way you thought I was slamming mama's who CAN'T bf - I know there are medical reasons why (I was almost forced to wean at 8 mos b/c of medication they wanted to put me on. I was able to switch to another medicine, but it was horrifyingly traumatic, so I totally *get* that feeling.)







to you and glad to hear you are in remission. I know it takes incredible strength to mother when you are dealing with health issues.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
People do CIO because they've got an instinct to let babies cry? How does that make any sense for the preservation of the species?

I have no idea, but since we are told that the SIL did no research then she must be following her instincts, which is usually considered to be a good thing around here. Except, of course, if your instincts don't coincide with my instincts.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I know how you feel. I really tried with my SIL too. I sent her books and had long coversations and subtly brought up the advantages of breastfeeding, not circing and other stuff. She didn't do ANY of it. She had an elective c/s, didn't ever even put his mouth to her breast, circ'd and vax's on schedule.

I just have to assume that they love their son as much as I love my kids and try not to feel hurt or judgemental. It's all you can do and it's hard!









I also have a lot of support for my choices, socially, geographically, etc. So does she where she lives.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I've been through a very similar situation. I know it is not about the money, but I wanted to be able to help my SIL and bro as much as I could knowing that parenting is a tough road. SIL wanted a natural birth, to bf, to babywear, and she ASKED for things to support those ideals. I thought about _lending her my stuff, but since I knew I'd need it back, I didn't want to lend stuff out and have it come back smelling of smoke and broken. I bought her many, many things that she ASKED for. I know that the gift is given and the recipient is free to do as she wishes, but it is annoying to be asked to get x,y, and z because she NEEDS them to care for her baby, to be asked for info and support on bf'ing and babywearing only to never even try the sling on or to want to ff because she has to handle all of the night feedings and would rather give formula with cereal at 3 weeks old to get the baby to sleep through the night.

I'm right there with you! All I can do is not be duped again and just listen nonjudgementally. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of judgement coming my way- like recently I was told "I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want the epidural, giving birth without drugs is stupid" So, I hold my judgement inside and just change the subject..._


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I have no idea, but since we are told that the SIL did no research then she must be following her instincts, which is usually considered to be a good thing around here. Except, of course, if your instincts don't coincide with my instincts.

Well, it's not like the only two options are "do research" or "follow your instincts". There's also the "do what some third party or TV or society or whatever other influence tells you to do" option. Which seems to be what this duck quacks like.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

It's really frustrating to see someone not making the most of an opportunity. But people don't always change overnight, but they do sometimes change more slowly, over years. And the newborn period can be really difficult.

As for mainstreame choices, I think moms hear on MDC tend to get a warped view of how obviously bad those choices are, and how obviously good the crunchy choices are. I don't mean that to reflect on the "truth" of the matter at all, but we surround ourselves with literature, with other people, who agree with those crunchy choices. In a way, they become normalized for us, sometimes to the point where we are perhaps not seeing as clearly as we might. But for a new mom, with no real background with kids or alternative ways of thinking, "mainstream" parenting is normalized, supported by professionals and other smart people. And to be honest, most kids of mainstream parents turn out pretty well. So she just likely doesn't see it in the same way.

It's too bad about the pump - I think I'd have given it as an "as needed" gift, for just that reason. But ask to borrow it!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I totally understand the frustration. I have a friend who sounds exactly like your SIL. She never reads anything (b/c I don't need a book to tell me how to parent), but does everything her doctor says, even though she's said she hates him and he's stupid, has the kid in daycare or with her mom 14 hours a day, gives her Tylenol before long car trips so she'll sleep, etc. It's just frustrating when you try to help people, especially when they ask for help, and then the disregard everything you say or call you weird. I know almost everyone loves their kids, but GAH some of the choices people make make me want to cry. So basically I wanted to say i feel for you. And ask to borrow the pump!!!!


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I understand that you're frustrated, and clearly both you and your DH are upset about the money you spent on the breastpump that isn't being used. Good rule of thumb for the future though - if you really can't afford it, don't buy it, even if you're doing so to try to be supportive. Bottom line is that your neice is in no immediate legally defined danger from her mother's parenting choices, so I'd worry more about doing the best for my child and let SIL do what she feels is best for her child.


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I think a mom who is capable of breastfeeding, yet CHOOSES not to, is selfish and yeah, kinda bad.

My MIL has body issues and chose to FF, but she IS a good mother. She is kind, patient and loving. I've never seen someone work so hard for her family, and I'd trust her with the life of my DD over my own mother (who BF). Anyone who would dare call my MIL selfish or a bad mom is a crazy person.

There is a hell of a lot more to being a good parent than what and how you feed your child as a baby.


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## MamaDona (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherry Alive* 
There is a hell of a lot more to being a good parent than what and how you feed your child as a baby.

That's true, but you have to admit, it IS annoying when someone can BF and just doesn't even try. Especially when so many of us have moved heaven and earth to try to feed our babies milk.

I think the OP was just trying to let off some frustration. And if she can't vent here, to this community, where can she?


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaDona* 
That's true, but you have to admit, it IS annoying when someone can BF and just doesn't even try. Especially when so many of us have moved heaven and earth to try to feed our babies milk.

Yes, but if it is really bringing you down so much that it's making you so angry then it's more your own issue than the person choosing not to BF.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaDona* 
I think the OP was just trying to let off some frustration. And if she can't vent here, to this community, where can she?

I understand. However, if you post something to a public community that comes off controlling and judgmental, it is unrealistic to expect everyone who reads it to be blindly supportive, KWIM?

This is especially true if you make generalizations-and calling all women who choose to FF "bad" and "selfish" is a vast generalization. There are many reasons women can choose not to BF (ex- being sexually abused, having to take drugs, etc...), and it's it's really no one's business to ask why or judge.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherry Alive* 
I understand. However, if you post something to a public community that comes off controlling and judgmental, it is unrealistic to expect everyone who reads it to be blindly supportive, KWIM?

This is especially true if you make generalizations-and calling all women who choose to FF "bad" and "selfish" is a vast generalization. There are many reasons women can choose not to BF (ex- being sexually abused, having to take drugs, etc...), and it's it's really no one's business to ask why or judge.

I didn't call *all* women who FF bad or selfish. I VERY SPECIFICALLY said women who can breastfeed but who choose not to. To further specify, that means women with no medical reason not to, but choose to for convenience or laziness or whatever. I don't think anything I said is controlling. Judgemental, yes. Controlling, no.

Keep in mind, opinions are like rear ends. Everyone has one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

As I said before - I am here to vent. I have never made one negative comment to my SIL about her choices. I have tried to support her in *HER* choices. But I have every right to have my own thoughts and opinions on those, and as long as I am not forcing what I think on her.

I just wish I had realized sooner that her mamahood would be just like everything else she does. If that was the case I would never have spent that kind of money.


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

I have noticed something in myself the last 11.5 years (since I had my first son): I am becoming more accepting of the choices others make.... I no longer believe there is only one route to happy, good parenting! I have seen kids who have been raised totally differently to what we believe is best and yet they are FANTASTIC people and have a wonderful relationship with their (bad) parents.

Formula feeding is not ideal (obviously) but you know what: there are also 100s and 1000s and 1000 000 who have been brought up on formula (and not for medical reasons) and they are bright, well-adjusted, healthy people! I count myself as one of those people... and my dh!

(((HUGS))) to you! i know it is hard, especially if you had expectations of her! Remember that her not researching something is "research" by itself! She is following the "mainstream" model, which most people believe is well researched and well supported by the medical community!


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

I have a SIL like yours. Its frustrating. I vent to my mom and DH (who also finds his sister frustrating), then I try to be an AP example.

Fortunately, her oldest child is 6 and seems to be doing fine. When he plays with my DS, you can't tell who got AP'd as an infant and who didn't.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i don't understand everyone jumping to the defense of the OPs SIL. The OP posted here b/c she wanted to vent w/o hurting her SIL. I'm 21, i got pg on accident, my son was born via c section, and he is currently FF due to misinformation and lack of information not to mention very little support. my mom watches him for me sometimes so i can get a few hours to clean or just relax and has since he was a couple months old.

i did not find her post particularly offensive. i know BFing is better for DS and once i got my information sorted out i relactated .. but pumping is very hard for me and i still don't get much. i get very frustrated when i know someone has the information and has the support and still doesn't even try to BF. esp. when it is also someone who will have a hard time affording formula.. she may not realize yet what a huge financial strain that can put on you.

i didn't want a c section and i still have anger over mine.... i have a hard time understanding why someone would chose to have and epidural knowing that it increases the chances of a c section.

I understand why some women have planned c sections, epidurals, inductions etc. i know that there are medical and psychological reasons why these things are safe and necessary. it is absolutely wonderful that these options are available to you. i wouldn't want any mother or baby to suffer physically or psychologically if it could be prevented.

what i have a hard time with is when this is the default option. when women don't take any classes and go to hospital planning on an induction, epidural, c-section etc b/c of convenience, or b/c the doctor told them to .. whether it was good advice or not. when the baby care and birth classes at the hospital tell you there is no benefit to natural birth, or that if you are prone to worrying and over thinking things you should not take a birth class. as if birth is something to be feared and knowing anymore then you already do would just be terrifying.

it is because of this mindset in hospitals that some women just go along with it assuming there is absolutely no reason not to get an epidural, or plan an induction for convenience or b/c you havent gone into labor on your EDD, and that a c section is totally routine and nothing to be concerned with if it ends up being necessary. it is hard to watch someone laugh at something you wanted so much and then request, without a second though, every intervention you fought to avoid. its not rational and its not about her... its about me and my experience and i know that.. but sometimes it still sucks.

some people don't leave their kid's side until they are 30... i can't do that i would lose my mind.. i am a SAHM i love my son dearly and i trust my mother completely. DP and i got pg after dating for 4 mos. it is important we get some time to spend together to go to a movie and just relax. my mother loves being with DS and i swear he likes her more then me and she only sees him once or twice a month. but she is like a freaking three ring circus









i guess i don't see the harm in venting. if she were going to email this to her SIL that would be a problem.. but we all have a right to our feelings.. even when we know they are a bit irrational.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
what i have a hard time with is when this is the default option. when women don't take any classes and go to hospital planning on an induction, epidural, c-section etc b/c of convenience, or b/c the doctor told them to .. whether it was good advice or not. when the baby care and birth classes at the hospital tell you there is no benefit to natural birth, or that if you are prone to worrying and over thinking things you should not take a birth class. as if birth is something to be feared and knowing anymore then you already do would just be terrifying.

it is because of this mindset in hospitals that some women just go along with it assuming there is absolutely no reason not to get an epidural, or plan an induction for convenience or b/c you havent gone into labor on your EDD, and that a c section is totally routine and nothing to be concerned with if it ends up being necessary. it is hard to watch someone laugh at something you wanted so much and then request, without a second though, every intervention you fought to avoid. its not rational and its not about her... its about me and my experience and i know that.. but sometimes it still sucks.


This is why we all have to be strong, help educate, be kind, have big shoulders, spread the word, and give hugs. I hope someday that "you got DRUGS?" will be the question of surprise, instead of "you had it NATURAL??". Does that make sense? (again, you know I'm not dissing your birth, m'friend!)


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I think a mom who is capable of breastfeeding, yet CHOOSES not to, is selfish and yeah, kinda bad.


Think whatever you like, but I think that you are dead wrong. Yes, we all know that BF is best. But some women, for whatever reason, choose not to.

Some people have no support, don't take the initiative to research things and simply don't know better.

That does not make them bad or selfish people, necessarily.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I think moms hear on MDC tend to get a warped view of how obviously bad those choices are, and how obviously good the crunchy choices are. I don't mean that to reflect on the "truth" of the matter at all, but we surround ourselves with literature, with other people, who agree with those crunchy choices. In a way, they become normalized for us, sometimes to the point where we are perhaps not seeing as clearly as we might. But for a new mom, with no real background with kids or alternative ways of thinking, "mainstream" parenting is normalized, supported by professionals and other smart people. And to be honest, most kids of mainstream parents turn out pretty well. So she just likely doesn't see it in the same way."








:

OP, I think it's just fine to vent here, but you're probably going to eat your guts out over this stuff a lot less if you can internalize the belief that your nephew is going to be just fine. The choices your SIL is making that you've described here might prevent him from having the most perfect immune system and healthiest gut lining ever known to man, and I'm sure it does no child any good to cry it out, but if he's getting enough to eat and is surrounded by people who show him love (like you!), he's going to survive and thrive.

Oh, and I went to the movies last week, leaving my three-week-old baby with a teenager and a bottle of expressed milk. I swear, good mothers can do that. The baby was not emotionally damaged in the three hours I was gone, and I was a lot better off for the brief respite.


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## meganmommyof5 (May 14, 2009)

Making certain choices for yourself and your family is your prerogative - if you choose to BF, AP, non-CIO, cloth diaper and everything else, that's great. What's not ok, is putting other people down for choosing differently. Vent away, but don't be surprised when other moms are disapproving of your militant posting.

I hope you find enough peace to stop freaking out over your SIL's choices. Nothing she's doing is endangering her child's life, and it is none of your business.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
This is why we all have to be strong, help educate, be kind, have big shoulders, spread the word, and give hugs. I hope someday that "you got DRUGS?" will be the question of surprise, instead of "you had it NATURAL??". Does that make sense? (again, you know I'm not dissing your birth, m'friend!)

yep! its hard though.. like how do you bring that up with out offending someone? i have yet to say more then i would prefer not to have another c section and there are pros and cons to epidurals.. to anyone outside of MDC who is or ever has been pregnant


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

If you didn't have the money to spend on a pump, you shouldn't have spent it. If she is really low income, I have heard that you can get a pump from WIC (I haven't been on it, so I don't know from personal experience). Or you could have offered to help her rent a pump for a month to see if she would follow through with pumping before buying her one.

There could be a lot of reasons she changed her mind. There are always sicko people out there that love to tell you stories about how things went horribly wrong when someone tried to do what you are planning on doing.







It could also be that something happened in the hospital to make her change her mind. When I was trying to BF for the first time, DD wouldn't latch on. A nurse I didn't know came over, grabbed my boob without saying a word, and was trying to wrestle it into place. It was horrible!! After DD did learn (and with my other 2 I had later), nurses constantly came in and wanted to "see" me nursing. I don't have a problem with my body, but I'm not going to plop my boob out a 100 x's a day on command so people can watch me nurse! With my second one, she didn't nurse right away. Even though the nurses KNEW I was nursing and didn't want bottles, I woke up and found a nurse with DD in the rocker giving her a bottle!!







I think even if your SIL had the best of intentions during her pregnancy, she might have been scared into changing her mind at the last minute.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

So sorry OP! I know you didn't post this to be attacked. MDC is a weird place sometimes.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camracrazy* 
When I was trying to BF for the first time, DD wouldn't latch on. A nurse I didn't know came over, grabbed my boob without saying a word, and was trying to wrestle it into place. It was horrible!! After DD did learn (and with my other 2 I had later), nurses constantly came in and wanted to "see" me nursing. I don't have a problem with my body, but I'm not going to plop my boob out a 100 x's a day on command so people can watch me nurse! With my second one, she didn't nurse tight away. Even though the nurses KNEW I was nursing and didn't want bottles, I woke up and found a nurse with DD in the rocker giving her a bottle!!

Reason #672 why I leave the hospital IMMEDIATELY after birth!


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

OP, please be careful. You are not anonymous. This forum is public and you post a lot of identifying information in your signature.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
She did a drugged up hospital birth, and did everything according to the medical model. Lets baby CIO, left baby at 5 weeks to go out, doesn't care if people wash their hands or gets in baby's face, and is formula feeding. She COULD breastfeed, but chooses not to. She has a pump and support, but is ignoring it.

I am so







for that baby. Mama just doesn't care. I knew this poor baby would be saddled with a mother who is still essentially a child herself and does not make healthy, educated choices in her own life. But I did (naively) think this might be a turning point for her.

And I am







that we spent precious money on a breastpump that she isn't even using. I actually have to go rent a pump for $80/mo because my supply dropped and my PIS isn't working anymore.

If you got this far, thanks, I just wanted to vent my frustration, sadness, disappointment, and anger. And I am sure the baby will grow up to be fine (though probably not as healthy as could be) and DH's whole family will be thinking "told you so" because they all think I am crazy for being AP.

I don't think I've seen a more judgmental post than this in ages, yeesh.

I know people that have had "drugged up hospital births" (are you really so uneducated that that's least offensive way you could have worded it or you were you just being flippant and disrespectful?), used CIO, choose to formula feed from the start and even *gasp* left the baby in trusted hands so they could enjoy some child free time.

All of them are good mothers and fathers. You simply cannot draw a line down a piece of paper and say that my sil does x, y, and z - those are all in the "bad" category. She must be a bad mom. I'm also not sure what your fertility has anything to do with her parenting. Infertility sucks, but that doesn't give you a right to look down on anyone who gets pregnant easily or by accident. Or both.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I think a mom who is capable of breastfeeding, yet CHOOSES not to, is selfish and yeah, kinda bad.

For starters, you could not possibly know she CHOSE to breastfeed. As a sufferer of infertility I'm sure you know that some things you choose not to share with certain people. It's not unheard of for somebody to another person "Oh, we're just choosing to wait awhile before we have kids." when in reality they are heartbroken from years of infertility and cope with it by not talking about. Especially people they don't get along with (such as you and your SIL).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I am judgemental, yes I am, in my own personal thoughts and here, anonymously venting about her to people who I thought would be somewhat sympathetic (honestly, some of the responses made me check to see if I was still on MDC!) I *know* everyone has thoughts like these. I chose to vent mine here instead of IRL, b/c it does boil down to the fact that it is none of my business.

My DH is pissed too. We wouldn't have spent the $$ on the pump if she didn't say she was planning on bf'ing. She is super low income and the baby daddy is also super low income. We thought we were being as supportive as possible b/c she probably couldn't have afforded the pump on her own.

Sounds like she did plan to breastfeed. Why else would she say that? Either to 1) get the militant people in her life to shut up or 2) because she planned on breastfeeding. Lots of people plan to breastfeed and don't end up continuing for whatever reason. Honestly, I think you're investing too much time and energy into a person you don't even like. You can't control other people or their actions. Yes, we all wish we could but the reality is we can't.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sanguine_speed* 
OP, please be careful. You are not anonymous. This forum is public and you post a lot of identifying information in your signature.

You quoted my post - are you talking to me? I'm not concerned, if you are... but thanks!


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

NNM - Have you tried fenugreek? My supply dipped, and I am having some success with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I didn't call *all* women who FF bad or selfish. I VERY SPECIFICALLY said women who can breastfeed but who choose not to.

My MIL *chose* not to. It was a personal choice. She has weird issues w/ BFing and is even judgmental. DH actually defended my right to BF in front of her when she visited us the first time after dd was born (she wanted me stuck in the nursery).

Still, she IS a good mom. She may do things different and has weird hang ups, but she loves DH and is very dedicated to her family. I don't think how he turned out was completely random.









You don't necessarily know all the reasons your SIL chose not to BF. But you DO have a right to be annoyed (especially after buying her a breast pump...very pricy--you should get it back).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I don't think anything I said is controlling. Judgemental, yes. Controlling, no.

With all due respect, the language in the OP really lends to the impression you were pushing AP on you SIL. She probably got advice from many ppl--including her own mother--and many of her decisions could have been made in fear and pressure. There's also the likelihood she really does think her decisions are the best for her baby.

Even choosing to go out can be a good decision. When my DD was 3 weeks, I tanked her up and left her alone w/ my DH for a couple hours. When I returned home, I felt so refreshed and happy. It was good for me, and I believe was able to parent better than I would have w/ cabin fever.

I'm not knocking on you. I do understand how you feel which is why I'm saying it's best to let it go. Stuff like that can really eat at you and take away the fun and magic of being a parent.

I had two younger relatives completely crap on my parenting beliefs--and this was after they asked for advice/$$$/gifts/sympathy from me when I spent 2+ years TTC and had two m/c's.

Yeah, they're dorks for being so rude, but I'm not going to judge how they care for their children. It's their choice

But I'm not going to waste my time letting them negatively impact my life again either. That means I don't spend much time and money on them, and I don't lose sleep over their parenting choices (even the dumb ones). There are bigger things to worry about.

Not all my choices worked out (I had chosen a reputable birth center but still ended up induced at a hospital), but I have a beautiful daughter who I'm raising the best I can. That's all that matters!


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## Amberenergy (Mar 10, 2009)

Tho my sil is supposedly ap etc. she still used to drive me whacko, and her personality sounded similar to your SIL. It was a hard road to walk on and now that we don't speak anymore things are better. There's just some people you won't - -ever get along with, even if they are "family." The hardest part for me was letting go of hoping to be close, and loving in a healthy way.
Sorry about your experience. Hugs.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa85* 
I'm also not sure what your fertility has anything to do with her parenting. Infertility sucks, but that doesn't give you a right to look down on anyone who gets pregnant easily or by accident. Or both.

I was going to point this out as well. You trying for years to have a baby doesn't mean you love your child more or that your sister doesn't love/appreciate/want her baby. A lot of your anger seems misplaced.

As for the breast pump, I wholeheartedly agree that if you couldn't afford the gift, you shouldn't have gotten it. End of story.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
You quoted my post - are you talking to me? I'm not concerned, if you are... but thanks!

No, sorry, that was an accident. I was referring to the OP...thus why I said, "OP..."


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

That's what I thought!


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## Loralz (Feb 20, 2009)

I totally understand what you meant. You're not attacking anyone, just venting. It's allowed.









What struck me the most was this:
>And I am







that we spent precious money on a breastpump that she isn't >even using. I actually have to go rent a pump for $80/mo because my supply >dropped and my PIS isn't working anymore.

You said your supply dropped. Just a few thoughts on that. First, have you changed the flanges on your PIS. They can get microtears, which makes your pump less efficient, which makes it look like your supply is going down.

Second, are you still drinking all the water you should be? Aim for at least 64 oz/day.

Third, could you be pregnant or getting AF? My supply always takes a hit right before AF is set to appear (and I got her back 3 months pp!). I fuel up with chocolate cake and water and let Wee One nurse, nurse, nurse.

Just a few thoughts and hugs. You're a good woman, especially for keeping your mouth shut throughout all of this.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthie's momma* 
It is always sad to learn about babies not getting the love and attention and need. But, _please_ ask to borrow that breast pump.

Where does it say the baby is not getting love and attention? Granted the baby isn't breastfed, but that doesn't mean she or he isn't getting love or attention.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

It is hard when something you want so badly isn't valued at all by someone else. That doesn't make them a bad person.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

This thread is truely bizarre. The subject says "vent" and that is what the OP is doing. Yet most of the replies are all about how the OP shouldn't be complaining, should strive to be less judgemental and that she lacks confidence in her choices...(Where that hell that last one came from is beyond me?)

I stopped reading after the second page. I was hoping for a good vent thread where you can sort of get your own venting out by reading other's with the same opinions. It can be cathartic. But reading this is just frustrating. Is venting just for the sake of venting now not allowed? Do we have to follow a whole set of rules in order to vent: like 1. do not say anything negative about formula; 2. do not say anything negative about epidurals, etc.

I have fed my kids formula and I had an epidural and I am not the least bit offended by the OP's post and certainly did not feel judged. I agree it sounds like a frustrating situation. OP was basically complaining about a thoughtless, immature mother (the formula/birth practices, etc. are just descriptive details). OP, I support you. You don't sound the least bit like you "lack confidence". And I would never assume you were treating your SIL judgementally by your post. Yes, you are having judgemental thoughts. I would too. That's human nature. It seems to me like you were doing the right thing by venting your judgements here instead of directly to your SIL.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

: every post judging the OP is still judging. in fact its a worse b/c the OP is venting her feelings about a person in her life. I don't know how that translates into calling everyone who has ever done any of those things for any reason a bad mother.

FWIW everyone judges.. every single person who has posted has made a judgement. we are allowed to have feelings, we are allowed to express them. sometimes this is a safe place to vent your feelings about things like this... sometimes its not apparently. she wasn't going to say any of this to SIL .. thats why she put it here. i think that is a much better choice.

there is nothing gentle about haranguing someone for feelings you don't think they have a right to have.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 







: every post judging the OP is still judging. in fact its a worse b/c the OP is venting her feelings about a person in her life. I don't know how that translates into calling everyone who has ever done any of those things for any reason a bad mother.

FWIW everyone judges.. every single person who has posted has made a judgement. we are allowed to have feelings, we are allowed to express them. sometimes this is a safe place to vent your feelings about things like this... sometimes its not apparently. she wasn't going to say any of this to SIL .. thats why she put it here. i think that is a much better choice.

there is nothing gentle about haranguing someone for feelings you don't think they have a right to have.

What's even funnier is that the OP has stated multiple times that she "owns" her opinion, and knows that she's being judgmental! She's just frustrated, and annoyed. Furthermore, she may have other reasons for thinking the things she does about her SIL. I mean, really, we all judge but clearly only a handful of us are up to admitting that we do it.

This place can be a strange place sometimes...







:


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