# my kid sleeps all day



## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I guess that is somewhat normal for teens but he got out of bed around 4 (pm) today. I don't know how to deal with this, especially if it goes into the school year AGAIN. I asked him YET AGAIN to do some simple cleaning up and he did the yeah yeah and then proceeded to ignore me, he does have his moments where I can tell he is trying to do the right thing. He did a load of laundry himself, good, but left the laundry detergent on its side inside a bathroom cabinet so it leaked into the drawers, bad. This not the 1st but 2nd time he's done this if you can believe it. This is not a small expense when it's super concentrated liquid, not to mention the destruction of furniture that is wholly unnecessary. He destroyed the lid to the garbage can in his room because he left at the the bottom of the stairs (and probably walked on it). He left a can of cat food opened and out of the fridge 2x in the last month. I feel like he is taking up too much of my brain space with this craziness leaving me feeling drained from accomplishing almost nothing.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

What has been happening since you last posted a thread? Have you had the opportunity to follow up with the mental health team?

The carelessness seems fairly typical to me. And not just "teenager typical" so people are just less careful in my experience. Normally I would say that the sleeping all day could be normal too but, having read your other threads I would not immediately jump to that conclusion. What is he doing at night? Is he staying up until the early hours? 


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

They just contacted me (a few days ago). It took them so long to get back to me they changed their name. We are still at the "we need to talk to the parents" stage. Sigh.

Not entirely sure what he does at night, as he told me, he's avoiding "people" AKA ME!! WTF?!! Him and our cat are enablers of terrible schedules.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

My mostly typical teen can sleep til 1-2pm- because he stays up until 3-4am. Why??? I have no idea but that is the schedule he chooses. He does online university so a normal schedule isn't as important.
I've spilled, overfilled, wasted so many bottles of different types of detergent in my 40 plus years that I've resorted to PODS as much as possible. Again, easier and just simplifies my life. I still have spills to clean up- but spills are a fact of life.
I dont like 'people' but therapy has taught me skills to better deal with 'people' and how to minimize my people days and experiences. Therapy isnt so much about 'fixing the person' but about changing experiences and environments to fit the needs of the person better. As well as providing the client skills and ideas to help them cope with what is bothering them.


I ask you: 
1. is a garbage can lid really that important?
2. which battles do you want to really fight?
3. have you tried to get your ds feedback on what his goals and input in the situation are? A goal can be something very small and simple.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

He's only in grade 10, (going into), so sleeping the entire day isn't really an option unless he's dropping out of school. He's not a person I foresee going into trades (not because I don't support that, he has no mechanical inclinations). School is his best option if he can get through it. He's a cerebral person not a doer. (or at least that's where he's at now)

It's more the carelessness/how he deals with situations that really get me. Intentionally putting the detergent bottle on it's side (2x) and then telling me that if it can't be put on it's side the lid is designed wrong. Huh. Really? Also we are living at such a low income level stuff like this strikes a harder blow. We have cockroaches now, we pretty well haven't had them since living in rentals as singles, plus we know there are rats around here. His room is full of trash and dishes. His mess is attracting vermin into the house, we even had an explosion of fruit flies coming mainly from his room that migrated to all parts of the house. We also don't have a car, I would have to physically carry something like a trash can home with me, on a bus or a train. It's royal PIA. He leaves wet things on the floor to rot like laundry, what particularly irks me are towels that end up smelling disgusting, a smell I can't wash out, or my own clothes he has pulled out of the wash. We don't have a dryer either. It feels a lot of the time like being sabotaged or undermined when things are hard enough.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

It sounds like your son is a bit like mine. I have to get really angry with him, and almost treat him like a little kid. My next lecture will be titled "If you want me to treat you like an adult, behave like one" where we will discuss doing chores promptly, prioritizing activities, cooking as an alternative to throwing money away on delivery pizza/Chinese, and how there is a difference between a taxi and a chauffeur driven car. I seriously ride his ass until he does the chores I give him. It's important to me that he does them, as if they aren't, then it means there is a delay in me being able to do something. The bug infestation was about to become an issue as well for us, and I had to throw a real fit to get that issue under control. Banning food from his and his brothers room was a consequence until they both showed me they would clean away food items every evening. 

Seriously, if you do not like his behavior, resort to treating him like a little kid again. Don't give him a choice in what he is doing. That's your house, you are the boss. He needs to see that you are serious about how there are rules and he needs to honor them. There are too many people now who think there are no rules that apply to them.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

The "it's not designed properly" just sounds like defensiveness to me. I could see myself saying something like that as a teenager (and even now if I'm honest) if I was caught at the wrong moment and didn't want to just say "yes, you're right, I was careless." I'm curious to know why you think it was on purpose. Did he say that? Did he say why?

As for the rest, you could try setting boundaries like "no food outside the kitchen" but I don't see how you could enforce it if he's up all night and you're, presumably, asleep. You could try a daily clean up instead but again, I don't know how you get him to co-operate.

When is your "talk to the parents" appointment? I would be bringing all these things up then as examples of behaviours for which you need solutions. 


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*when you*

Place a bottle that is too tall into a shelf, so lay it on it's side, that seems intentional, no? When you make statements like that you are denying your responsibility for choosing that path, you CHOSE it, it didn't just happen to you. I need to get him there.

Yes, the awake all night thing is like a big FU re: participating and cooperating with others, but trying to not get into that mentality.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

mumto1 said:


> you CHOSE it, it didn't just happen to you. I need to get him there.


I don't think you need to get him there. This is not a hill I would choose to die on. I think it's clear that he knows he put the bottle there lying down, he knows it didn't fall over afterwards. He is saying it's a design flaw to save face, to deflect your blame, to deal with the fact that he feels stupid about what he did. Although this isn't the most mature coping mechanism, it's not some sort of great moral failing. I'd let the 'admitting it' thing go.

Maybe ask him what would be a good workaround for the design flaw (buying a smaller bottle? using pods as suggested? reconfiguring the shelf so the bottle fits?). Helping remediate the problem is one way of taking responsibility. Problem-solving is an important skill.

What is going on with the mental health appointments? I know we only get a select tiny slice of the bigger picture through your posts, but extrapolating from what you say here I really have to wonder what the future holds if he continues in this pattern without external help. He seems to have almost no friends, interests or clear aptitudes, is underachieving at school, does no regular activities, has problematic exercise, sleeping and eating habits, little apparent connection with you or his dad, no meaningful outside adults in his life ... from my outside perspective it seems like he desperately needs at least one decent connection with an adult or at least one interest he can work on developing. Those aren't things you can inflict upon him, but you could play an important role in facilitating any sparks of interest that you've observed.

Miranda


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*Well..*

For one thing, we never put the detergent in the cabinet, it wasn't designed for that and there is no room to put it there. So, yes, a poor decision on his part, my issue is with him doing it twice even after seeing the results of the first attempt to do it and then blaming the design of the bottle/lid. Stuff like this is an ongoing thing. "Couldn't do my homework because it was raining so I couldn't bring my book home" (just making that up) but he honestly acts like forces are acting against him, things are completely out his control.

For another, don't know what to say about your other comments. My son, for whatever reason, puts himself into a place of opposition to the people and things around him. He is going into a special school program this year (something that will hopefully interest him), maybe it will help, only time will tell. I can only push so hard with things that are essentially, in his hands. I tried applying for a high school that reflected his interests in grade 9, but we were turned away because of his behaviour issues in grade 8.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

If you think that his lack of interest in things other than computers and talking about things (sort of more like talking at people sometimes) is not bothering me well I honestly don't know what to say. He does have a couple of friends, they are older and do not go to his school. It's challenging living with someone, your own child, who shares very little with you, who stays in bed all day when you get up at 6 or 7 am. Maybe if we had tons of money some of these things would become moot. Maybe these alternative wealthy selves would travel everywhere visiting the worlds museums and eat out at every meal and not care when a pair of shoes was left on a bus or food was left out uneaten, maybe we'd have a housekeeper to do all the cleaning or a pack of dogs that would leave no crumbs behind. I'm trying to work through this the best I am able.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

i have 2 teens. they share a room. the are instantly grounded from every electronic thing if i find one hint of any food anything in their room or outside of the kitchen. they are required to have clean floors before bed or else they are grounded the next day too. they thought it was unfair. until we got new neighbors and they saw their garbage covered house. now they don't think it is unfair although they still grumble. personal accountability. they are required to wake up before a certain time depending on what day it is. they are required to be in their bed wih the lights off by a certain time. their electronics go in a central charging hub in another room. i had a problem with one leaving their room in the middle of the night to steal their dad's work snacks so we bought a cheap motion alarm and set it up in front of the kitchen. tthat behavior quit. now if they get up in the middle of the night they only go to the bathroom and back. i made a chore chart with who does what every day. i inspect when they are done. if they made half of an attempt they have to do it over. grounded until it is good enough. if they purposefully do a bad job or otherwise mess up on purpose in an effort to get me to not assign them that job then they get it all week. this has worked amazingly for my teens and the younger ones as well. they do their jobs when and how they are supposed to and then they have loads of free time to play on their games, go outside, go to the library, or visit friends. if i tell them they did it wrong, i used to get an argument. i would only respond with the word no until they stopped. it wasnt up for debate. you'll do the chore, make an honest effort to do a good job, accept responsibility for yourself, and work harder to learn to do better. this is my hill to die on. personal accountability and how to work hard. the rest can be up for debate. i dont care what you wear, how you do your hair, etc. 

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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Mumto1- Have you looked into counseling for yourself? sometimes another person (in real life) can be a support, a person to offer solutions, and to offer coping skills to you as well. The internet is a great place to turn for ideas and support as well but there are times an individual needs in-person support. You sound stressed and overwhelmed. Being low-income does not remove you from receiving services. But what I hear you saying is similiar to what you say you experience from your DS. When someone offers a possible solution, you give reasons why that solution isn't possible or why their example isn't feasible in your situation. For the time being you and your DS need to find a way to live under the same roof, and you as the adult and parent are the one to make that happen. Possibly a counselor for yourself would be something to consider?


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

I agree with both moominmama and zebra's posts. I would further add that, if you don't have an actual fixed appointment of some sort with the mental health team now (whether for your son or for you as parents) that you start hassling them. You could do this directly and I would suggest that the first step is to ring and ask if there is a cancellation waiting list. If there isn't or you are already on it then I would start ringing weekly to ask about the status of your referral. 

If you don't want to do that, the other option is to go back to the GP or paed who made the original referral and ask them to start hassling on your behalf. 

I know you are trying hard to find solutions to these problems as they crop up but my feeling is that the root cause is probably the same and trying to address them individually is like trying panadol and acupuncture and massage for a headache without first removing the knife sticking out of the side of the person's head. 


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*we re moving ahead with that*

He may have an appointment this week (if I can get him there). It is unbelievable how long it has taken. It's also clear how much of a misfit the public school system is. They seem really unable to accommodate a student who is capable but has issues, thankfully they did accept him into this specialized program. I am hoping this will be the impetus he needs, plus the more varied days may make class time more bearable.

As I am dealing with issues with my son, I am dealing with my issues too. Things come up that shed new light, reframe things in a different way. I always knew my family was eccentric and dysfunctional (which families aren't?) but I'm gaining perspective. For example, when I was a kid my parents gave me a budgie. I looked after it to the best of my ability, I tried to do my honest best. I would put him outside on good weather days so he could get some sun. Well, one day the cage door was left open and he flew away and I always took personal responsibility for that. I felt terrible. Guess what? My mom recently admitted it was her, she thought he would be better off but she always let me believe it was my carelessness. Recently my cousin came here for dinner and she went later to another cousins house and told him I was doing well and she was proud of me, guess what? My mom told me that she told my cousin I actually wasn't doing that well, someone we don't see a lot. It would have cost her nothing to just let it stand and be nice about it, no matter her private opinion. So I'm realizing as time goes on, things were/are more complicated then I realized.

And I wasn't totally joking about what may be an issue one place, may not be in another. I have friends who have a son similar in some ways to mine but younger, he's in a private school, they can afford to get a mental health professional ASAP and they can go to a cottage in the summer and get out of the city. His mom doesn't have to work a regular job for income and they have housecleaners to reduce the work load. The issues we experience in our homes are similar but they have different resources.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

I think you are hyper focusing on the small issues, perhaps because it is easier than the big ones. 

Who cares if he left the bottle sideways - really - even if you are poor? It is annoying and he should have to clean up any mess, but it is not drugs, violence, dropping out of school, etc, etc. Big picture if you can  I also guarantee you that things like detergent and bottles on their side in the fridge make no difference whatsoever to your overall financial well being (although i know it can impact day-to-day stuff). Sometimes I like to ask myself if xyz will make any difference to my financial well being 5 years down the road - if the answer is no, I try to let it go. 

I agree you need a counsellor for yourself. I know it is hard to carve out time, but it may be helpful. There are parent helplines in most places as well as parenting support groups for teens classes. A helpline is free and just a phone call. 

In the meantime...

-Do you have any alone time/time where you do stuff for yourself? Recharging time is crucial
-Will he agree to any parent/child time - such as a weekly Timmy's date? Make a point of bringing him to a coffee shop once a week. If you cannot swing that - how about a walk? 
-My youngest takes melatonin. I never thought a child of mine would...but it has been a godsend. She has some anxiety and was starting to sleep poorly, and she was keeping me up, so I was less capable of functioning during the day. It was a vicious circle. Melatonin seems to have got her back on track in terms of a regular schedule. She is currently sleeping from about 11:30-9:00, but we will dial that back shortly as school starts.
-my eldest liked (still likes!) to stay up all night and sleep all day. If he needs to be on a more regular schedule (usually for class) he does a reset. He will stay up all night and all the next day, and then go to bed early - say at 8:00 pm. He wakes up at a normal time the next morning - and presto - back on a normal schedule. This is the easiest way I have found to reset a flipped internal clock - trying to gradually move awake time earlier or bedtime earlier several days in a row is a drag - often for everyone in the household.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

Something I was using as an example does not mean I'm hyper focussing on anything. It's an example of how he does something and then sees himself separate from the end result. I could probably list a million examples of this but why? It's an example of how I sometimes feel like I am trying to run up a sand dune. 

Realizing your mom let you take the blame for the death of your pet is pretty f--g earth shattering. I still can't believe she told me because it was so shocking. Call me crazy. Not even the old cliche "We left your puppy/kitten at a farm". I was standing there watching him fly away knowing he had 0 chance of survival and thinking I did that to him. It makes me wonder again about parenting, my relationship to my parents...


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

mumto1 said:


> Something I was using as an example does not mean I'm hyper focussing on anything. It's an example of how he does something and then sees himself separate from the end result. I could probably list a million examples of this but why? It's an example of how I sometimes feel like I am trying to run up a sand dune.
> 
> Realizing your mom let you take the blame for the death of your pet is pretty f--g earth shattering. I still can't believe she told me because it was so shocking. Call me crazy. Not even the old cliche "We left your puppy/kitten at a farm". I was standing there watching him fly away knowing he had 0 chance of survival and thinking I did that to him. It makes me wonder again about parenting, my relationship to my parents...


I think this makes seeking counselling for yourself even more important.

Possibly the reason that it seems to us like you are hyperfocusing on small issues is because people respond to the original post asking questions about where the mental health review is up to and talking about the underlying cause of the behaviour and your responses to those posts tend to skim over those things and focus on the small issue. This is not a criticism, you are, obviously, free to share whatever information you feel comfortable with with a group of Internet strangers. However, we can only go by what you post, so what you give us is what we respond to 

And you're right, you don't need to give us the million example because none of them are likely to be the problem. They will only start to resolve when the problem is identified and addressed.

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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

mumto1 i sympathise with you since i have an 18 years old who totally changed personnality 3 years ago (for the worse) so most of the examples you give strike a chord with me ... i haven't found yet a way to manage ok for quite a few situations (had to take a 3 hours stroll alone this very afternoon and was lucky to be able to receive immediate phone help from a relative with older children than mine and a good grasp of the situation and a positive outlook on life ... i was SO irritated ..)

about the admitting about letting the bird fly out ... i can only say that i was well over 40 years of age when both of my older sisters eventually admitted to cutting the leather straps of a small whip which my dad's second wife was using on me occasionally 30 years beforehand .... at the time of course, i was blamed and punished even more .... i suppose that at the time they did think they were doing the best they could by me (rather than confront step mom directly, they were still children too .... make her realise that what she was doing was "not on" by cutting the leather strips ...) ... it IS what i hard to grasp ... that most of the time people try to do the best they can, considering where they are at psychologically .... now i understand how frustrating the liquid laudry thing got for you ..... especially when you already mentionned it AND that it felt lame to you the reply you were given .... because you would never do that yourself .... because i felt very very very frustrated these last few days with my 18 years old ... who moans and moans about me interfering in her life for mundane things at home BUT needs me tomorrow to go in person to register at University (really ? my parents never did anything of the sort after i was over 18 ... you want it, you do the red tape yourself .... SO it IS hard to me to understand that she's over stressed and worried and anxious and needs me for that ... when most of the time at home she sends the message with her day to day rude behavior that i'm "de trop" in her life ...) but is not lifting many fingers to gather the paperwork needed .... was going to go and pick an important paper on July 5th, said she was going, ended up not going, had the chance to go and pick up said paper for a week mid July ... was asked/urged to do so .... didn't bother ... now, we NEED that piece of paper for tomorrow ("any file that is not complete will be void" .....is written in bold and red on the list of required paperwork ....) ... all we have is a vague copy of some of the information from that piece of paper, which we printed from the internet, with only her first name, not even her last name .... and i still don't know if she'll be turned down for the whole school year because of that .... which seems to me so stupid and so careless and so .... irritating ...

i understand all the advice which has been given to you by other posters ... some of it has been given to me too (will that point i'm very irritated about today be important n our life in one year's time ?) but when in the middle of the situation, with no outside perspective coming in, difficulty stepping "out of one's skin" so as to try to consider the situation with a cooler head ... it is NOT easy ....


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

IsaFrench said:


> mumto1 i sympathise with you since i have an 18 years old who totally changed personnality 3 years ago (for the worse) so most of the examples you give strike a chord with me ... i haven't found yet a way to manage ok for quite a few situations (had to take a 3 hours stroll alone this very afternoon and was lucky to be able to receive immediate phone help from a relative with older children than mine and a good grasp of the situation and a positive outlook on life ... i was SO irritated ..)
> 
> about the admitting about letting the bird fly out ... i can only say that i was well over 40 years of age when both of my older sisters eventually admitted to cutting the leather straps of a small whip which my dad's second wife was using on me occasionally 30 years beforehand .... at the time of course, i was blamed and punished even more .... i suppose that at the time they did think they were doing the best they could by me (rather than confront step mom directly, they were still children too .... make her realise that what she was doing was "not on" by cutting the leather strips ...) ... it IS what i hard to grasp ... that most of the time people try to do the best they can, considering where they are at psychologically .... now i understand how frustrating the liquid laudry thing got for you ..... especially when you already mentionned it AND that it felt lame to you the reply you were given .... because you would never do that yourself .... because i felt very very very frustrated these last few days with my 18 years old ... who moans and moans about me interfering in her life for mundane things at home BUT needs me tomorrow to go in person to register at University (really ? my parents never did anything of the sort after i was over 18 ... you want it, you do the red tape yourself .... SO it IS hard to me to understand that she's over stressed and worried and anxious and needs me for that ... when most of the time at home she sends the message with her day to day rude behavior that i'm "de trop" in her life ...) but is not lifting many fingers to gather the paperwork needed .... was going to go and pick an important paper on July 5th, said she was going, ended up not going, had the chance to go and pick up said paper for a week mid July ... was asked/urged to do so .... didn't bother ... now, we NEED that piece of paper for tomorrow ("any file that is not complete will be void" .....is written in bold and red on the list of required paperwork ....) ... all we have is a vague copy of some of the information from that piece of paper, which we printed from the internet, with only her first name, not even her last name .... and i still don't know if she'll be turned down for the whole school year because of that .... which seems to me so stupid and so careless and so .... irritating ...
> 
> i understand all the advice which has been given to you by other posters ... some of it has been given to me too (will that point i'm very irritated about today be important n our life in one year's time ?) but when in the middle of the situation, with no outside perspective coming in, difficulty stepping "out of one's skin" so as to try to consider the situation with a cooler head ... it is NOT easy ....


It's good she (your daughter) is asking you for help though isn't it? Can you stand with her while she does this kind of stuff? Back her up? Make her do it and receive the self confidence boost that she did it, she CAN do it?

The whip thing, ack how terrible for you, where did you grow up? We are talking about kids trying to make an intervention on your behalf and I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around being whipped.

I know relative to what other people live through, my family situation was very good. But then every now and then I see something in a new light. Just oddities, emotional disconnectedness, undermining things interspersed with things that were genuinely good. It kind of resets everything. It's more like an absence a lack, it's hard to describe because we (me and my brother) were cared for absolutely correctly.


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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

i didn't grow up in the US, but in a country where these objects were on sales is stores then ...
(from what i've just seen you can still buy some on-line ...)

i really have to fight the urge to tell DD1 to "just go by yourself if that's the way you talk to me ...." .... what is baffling me most is that ...she seems to behave in a way that is quite likely i will NOT be too willing to meet her needs ... or is she just testing me ? & working out how rude she can be ... whilst i still help her out for paperwork and administrative chores ...

this IS a complex situation ..... in-laws have a variety of mental health issues .... so, i'm always wondering how much of DD1 is "usual teenager behavior" ... or if we have crossed the boundary over to "mental health issues" ... what i find rather freaky are the moments when it feels to me that she's sort of loosing track with reality, when things get definitely NOT rational ... since that is part of some in-laws symptoms as part of their various mental health issues ....

i am not a substitute to a psychiatrist basically ... it does get overwhelming at times ...


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

It's hard to say not knowing you guys. Is it possible she's just feeling insecure and it's coming out bi--y? From my perspective as someone who may or may not have ADD, I find bureaucratic stuff could practically send me into panic attacks when I was younger. Feeling like I didn't know what was going on, like I was going to do something wrong, you name it. And for some reason I have had weird things consistently happen to me (which makes me sound paranoid but it's true). Does your daughter feel like things are out of control? Does she want help therapeutically/medically?


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

mumto1 said:


> If you think that his lack of interest in things other than computers and talking about things (sort of more like talking at people sometimes) is not bothering me well I honestly don't know what to say.


I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying you didn't recognize this stuff is a problem. I was saying "From what you're saying, it sounds kind of serious and outside the norm, and therefore as much as possible I would put energy into trying to facilitate solutions. "

I'll go further here and suggest that you taking an interest in what he likes doing and talking about might be a way of encouraging him to take his interests to a new level. This doesn't require renting a cottage for the summer or enrolling him in expensive workshops and camps. My ds who was once a computer-obsessed 14-year-old who stayed up all night gaming and was furtive and defensive about his habits. One day I realized that I might be part of what was making him furtive and defensive. Instead of trying to get him to be different, I started making an effort to understand what excited him about gaming, what skills were involved, where the challenge lay, what parts he was good at, what his struggles were, what kept him plugging away, who the game developers were and why he revered them, what the premise of his favourite game was, how the collaborations and online community worked, how levels could be modded and added to. It took only a few weeks before he started stepping it up because he was beginning to feel pride in his computer skills and knowledge rather than shame. He started learning actual programming, diving more systematically into free online tutorials, exploring more deeply... and within a few months he was volunteering with the local youth centre society, advocating for funding for youth activities, spending time with a twenty-something web programmer / digital designer who became an important mentor, and taking MOOC college computer courses.

If I had decided he should take up a sport or start volunteering at the local food bank or even volunteer with the youth centre, I wouldn't have got anywhere, I'm sure. But I tried to meet him where he was at, to encourage the deeper development of interests he already had. The example above is only an example of what direction my kid's interests led; although his gaming habits sound similar to your son's it's likely they are very different young men. Your kid will probably need a different form of facilitation. The only way to know what he needs is to meet him where he is at.

Miranda


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

I have talked to him about his computer games but a lot of the time there's not much to say about it, Oh another game where you are shooting people....What's going on? Oh just shooting people... Why? Because... So I try to talk to him about other things that seem to interest him, history, science, music, politics (really really not my thing but I try to find something). I used to do a bit of computer programming a long long time ago, he's not talking about anything at all to do with stuff like that with me at least, he shows no inclination at the moment to actually take on a project. I've tried different computery things, camera, Photoshop, music program etc etc etc. The amount of things everyone here has tried to interest him (over a long time) in or tested his interest in, is exhaustive, which is why I've been stepping back now. Way back. Soccer, carpentry, drawing, photography, painting, sculpture, cooking, gardening, biking, swimming, boating, baseball, skating, camping, reading books, musical instruments like guitar and piano, martial arts..........


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

I just wanted to pop in and empathize. It is so hard to turn things around once a relationship with one of your kids has gotten stuck in a bad pattern. The child gets so defensive. Professional help is really sometimes the only thing that can turn the boat around. It sounds really hard.


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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

i totally agree with the "meet him where he's at"

(this is what is baffling me with DD1, i remember her when she was 11 to 15 years old & she appeared much more collected, mature, confident .... than now .... so there's a big discrepancy between my expectations of a 18 years old ... and what we live day to day ...)

i really appreciated your comment of yesterday ...
_It's good she (your daughter) is asking you for help though isn't it? Can you stand with her while she does this kind of stuff? Back her up? Make her do it and receive the self confidence boost that she did it, she CAN do it?_

As a result i tried NOT to comment more than "no" when she asked me the very minute it was time to leave to catch the bus ... "is there anything i should print ?" AND also tried not to laugh when i saw her walking to bus stop a little ahead .... and noticed her shoe laces were not done ....
now ... the logical conclusion is that the registration was denied & we had to go back home and wait for mid-day to wade through a maze of websites and various passwords ... but were finally succesful in booking another appointment for mid-september ... she now knows where to go to pick up the missing document - where she sat for her last exam- and it re-opens starting next week ... so i'm praying that she manages to do that by herself then ....she has seen a child psychiatrist about 5 times over the last 8 months ... i could only try to faciliate the appointment taking at the beginning, but considering her age, i now have no control over the frequency of the appointments ...


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

How are things going @mumto1? Any further news on the mental health team appointment? How are you feeling?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*waiting for a result*

we'll see...


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Good luck on the resetting of the clock after summer.

My youngest starts school Tuesday, and we need to go from her current midnight-10:00 am, to about 10:00pm - 6:30am. Fun! Our family is coming this weekend, so starting Sat i am going to wake her up at 8:00 am or so and take it from there.


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*Yep. BTDT.*

He'll fight that like crazy. Unless he is actually so bored by summer he decides to get up.


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## momwithmany (Jan 23, 2015)

We dealt with something similar. What happened was that we cleaned the bedroom out. Down to bare bones furniture with the explanation that it was being done for both sanitary reasons and because it was obviously too much to keep up with. At the same time all electronic everything was taken away. Yes, this made for one grouchy kid for awhile. The deal was that after several days of a reasonable sleep schedule and routine that involved picking up after themselves as well as helping out around the house was established electronics (cell phone, video games, laptop) would be given back for limited periods of time each evening once all daily tasks had been completed. As soon as standards were being kept up electronics came back for good to be self regulated but once standards started slipping again or we noticed late nights/late sleeping coming back due to screen time we would be back to electronics being locked up. It's worked well, I'd say be only have a few days a month now where things are locked up and that bedroom has gone from a disgusting mess to neat and tidy.


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## MiriMama (Sep 1, 2017)

*We all need support*

There's nothing harder than being a single parent. You have twice the work, twice the judgement and half the money and help! I was a single parent for only four years but my son was at the same stage yours is now and we were low income too. It hurts so much more to have anything wasted. The struggle to try to get him to seem to care about anything was very difficult! It feels like your child is working against you and that you are failing or being punished after you've poured your heart and soul into them for years! Also, we are pioneers when it comes to dealing with the effects of computer technology on children/adolescents. It's so hard to feel that you're doing a good job but obviously you are. It seems to me you're doing your best and trying to connect with him while physically and mentally trying to care for him and yourself.

My son went to live with his dad for a year and then was on his own through high-school, living with friends, working and paying rent. (They really are so much more capable than we give them credit for.) When he was 19 he had a printer contract sales and maintenance job, with a company car and $3000/mo. salary plus commission. He left that to be a DJ and work p/t at a cell phone kiosk in the mall. After a few years of "the lifestyle" he commented recently to me that maybe he ought to get a job like he used to have. He's 23 now and he's never had trouble keeping a home rental contract and paying his bills. While his house gets messy and dirty at times it gets cleaned up too.

Thankfully I didn't completely alienate him with the stress of being a single, cash-strapped parent. I had two babies at the time and now they're going through that stage too.

The 14yo has been "experimenting" with her sleep schedule for about a year now. I was very worried about her since she was/is displaying some of the behaviors you describe of your son. There are some things which helped/are helping me to keep it all in perspective.

1. Teens need more sleep (9+hrs) and they need to go to sleep and wake up later. They're not being lazy or bad! sleepcenter dot ucla dot edu/sleep-and-teens "Before puberty, your body makes you sleepy around 8:00 or 9:00 pm. When puberty begins, this rhythm shifts a couple hours later. Now, your body tells you to go to sleep around 10:00 or 11:00 pm." Unfortunately our institutions haven't caught on to this reality yet. www dot theprovince dot com/life/schools+reluctant+embrace+later+bell+times/14244719/story dot html (You can copy/paste and replace the "dot" with a period. I'm new here so they won't let me post links yet.)

2. While the mess they choose to live in is unbearable to me mostly I close the door on it and they eventually start to desire better. This is dependent on me keeping my cool about it and communicating honestly about why it's important to me and how hard I'm working to not let it bother me. (I calmly clean her room a few times a year while gently pushing her to help. I stop if I can't handle the chaos of it all and come back to it later.) Basically this is an assertion of my needs and my definition of what it means for her to be healthy and well cared for. (Her definition is different.)

3. Getting her to take responsibility and help is its own issue. First, I remember being that age and it's not reasonable to expect them to have our focus or perspective. Why would a clean house matter much to them? This is a mother's perspective not a young person's. It's also a personality type issue, my youngest is somewhat fastidious and I never have to pester her much at all to clean up. 
Because I've manged to keep my reactions "dialed back" the 14yo now voices understanding of my frustration over her contentment with her mess, and is more willing to help. I always tell her she's more important to me than a clean house and she returns the kindness by trying to be more helpful (its never perfect and maybe never enough for me but it's headed in the direction of being supportive.)

I hope my perspective is helpful to you, I know we all have our own battles to fight and burdens to bear. Respect of the individual and harmony in the household are great focus points for me. Another tool I've found to be helpful is that every right comes with an inherent responsibility. 
Ultimately the bottom line is how do we all get what we need without hurting each other too much, how can we be supportive of our differing needs? Getting onto their level, understanding what makes them tick, what they care about is the thing that's made the biggest difference for me. Ultimately I couldn't give that until I felt I had it for myself and I had to go get it mostly on my own. Wherever you can find your support go and get it! We're the parents


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

How is the first week going with your son?

My daughter is not loving her new school, but it is very early on still...something I keep reminding her of.

She had a friend (not from her school, alas) over the last two nights, and while I am glad she has a friend to come over, we may be looking at some limits. He stayed til past 9:00 both nights and she ended up doing homework at 10:30 one night and last night she was a bit late as well. It can be hard to settle into an early bedtime after a summer of doing what you want.


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## mynini (Sep 6, 2017)

The only way that seems working in this issue is to define some rules (not so strict not so easy) and stick to them in order to be performed by the kid. for example define a cleaning time, exactly on 9 am or sport time etc... I had relatively same problem with my 11 yo son and this method magically worked!


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## mumto1 (Feb 17, 2016)

*so far so good*

Summer was probably boring enough, but this how things usually start.


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## Barella (Dec 18, 2017)

mynini said:


> The only way that seems working in this issue is to define some rules (not so strict not so easy) and stick to them in order to be performed by the kid. for example define a cleaning time, exactly on 9 am or sport time etc... I had relatively same problem with my 11 yo son and this method magically worked!


oh yess 
some routine always helps


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## kimstone (Mar 27, 2018)

Try to engage him some interesting tasks or take him for some outing that he love. This will distract him from sleeping. Continue this for few days. Gradually he will sleep less and loose that habit.


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## SkyMJ (Jun 11, 2018)

Try to attract him to some physical activities. A good trainer will teach him to discipline. My daughters always wake up at seven o'clock because they are doing tasks from their gymnastic trainer.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

...........


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## Honda (Jan 13, 2019)

Let him until he can


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