# Have YOU ever hit a child?



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Please bear with me- the anonymous poll will take a few minutes to show up.

OK, poll is here. I'm not including a child hitting another child- just what you've done as an adult. I'll let you decide when you considered yourself to be an adult.


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## Thalia the Muse (Jun 22, 2006)

Yeah -- but not since I was about seven years old or so!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I don't need to be anon. I admit I have. It had an unbelievable effect on me, which is good, and I would rather gouge my own eye out before doing it again. Sweet little eyes, trusting & loving & I smacked him for no damn reason other than I was pregnant, hot & not in the mood to parent properly. No excuse.







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I have not, as an adult, hit a child.


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## Zonie (Nov 8, 2006)

I voted other, but I meant to vote "I believe it is wrong, but I have hit a child and feel bad about it now".


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

I can admit that I spanked my oldest son, but he and I were both lucky that we discovered GD. We're 2 years and counting with no spanking, and doing so much better!


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

I haven't ever spanked my child, or anyone elses since I was 18 and babysitting for a family who told me to spank their child if they misbehaved.
I didn't know any better, and one day when the child kicked out and caught me on the side of the face (we were sitting on the couch together and he was kicking me because he was angry I turned off the tv) and I reacted in anger and slapped his leg.
Since then, no. I'm so glad I learned other ways before I had my own children.


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

When I babysat, the family (who extendedly breastfed and didn't circ) told me to slap the top of the child's hand if he misbehaved. I have no recollection of what his "misbehavior" was, but I know I slapped his hand a few times.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I have and I feel horrible about it. I don't believe in hitting or spanking or any of that, but I have anger issues and I am working on them. The worst part is seeing Paddy's little face fall and he starts crying. I try to remember that when I feel the urge to spank him, and remember that it accomplishes NOTHING







: My husband is incredibly patient and wonderful, a real pro at GD. I'm thankful I have him to guide me along my way.


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

Before I even had children I believed any hitting to be wrong. I have hit/spanked several times in the "heat of the moment". I'm working to never do it again because it is not okay and my children deserve better.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I voted for the first one. HOWEVER, I do have a very reactive nature, and could easily see myself in the second category, hitting as a reaction, and feeling awful about it. It is something I am VERY aware of and am working on everyday. I have many times felt like I WANTED to hit, and have even once hit the bed, right next to dd. Just doing that felt horrid, and thank God dd looked at me and laughed, because I would have had a total meltdown. We are entering the toddler stage right now, and she's really trying, spirited, and well, everything else a toddler is.







If I can make it through this, I can make it through anything!


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

I have not hit a child since I was a child. Now what I'm working on is patience with my dog! I'll admit freely I've hit her as discipline (she's a husky, and it obviously doesn't work anyway because no matter how hard I hit she thinks I'm playing). I ask myself why it's okay to hit my dog but not my kids and I'm just like "Well-- because she's a DOG!" but then I think that's the reason a lot of people give as to why it's okay to hit a child but not an adult "Well-- because she's a CHILD!") so now I've got something to work on because I don't want my kids to grow up thinking it's okay to hit anyone, even animals.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I hit my DD and i still feel awful abut it. She spit at me and I lost it. It wasn't anything I planned and I don't even think i did it to teach her a lesson. I hit b/c I was pissed. I hit and than grabbed her and hugged her and apologized...it was like one fell swoop. angry mommy to ashamed mommy.







:


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I am very ashamed and this is the first time I have confessed








I was very very stressed and my dd was very very cranky and she kept doing things that were just plain dangerous, trying to climb onto the enertainment center next to the tv, going to the plugs to pull on them, leaping on the back of the couch anyways, I hit her butt, she cried and said "bug bite!!!" I cried and hugged her and apologized, she nursed, I kept apologizing and saying no more bug bites from mommy ever again... it was horrible....


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I don't need to be anon. I admit I have. It had an unbelievable effect on me, which is good, and I would rather gouge my own eye out before doing it again.









:

He was 3 years old, spit in my face and I reacted like a [email protected]@ss. I smacked him once. The look on his face was horrifying. I'm absolutely positive it will never happen again.


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## Millie Ivy (Dec 8, 2001)

I have never hit my own kids, but I am pretty sure I spanked for discipline when babysitting as a teen.
I think. I know my mom was pro spanking and we nannied at our house when I was a teen, and I am sure that when helping I did too.
It wasn't until I was pregnant with oldest(my dd) that I started learning about gd.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

Not as an adult, no. But I've felt the kind of rage and frustration that I could imagine leading to physical aggression.

Hugs to those of you who are struggling with the guilt and shame of having hit out of anger.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

_i voted..

I beleive hitting children is WRONG but I've hit a child, and felt awful about it.

*i wish that i could vote on #1..

*_ i have reacted in anger with my son when i should have taken a deep breath and taken space. that said, i dont think that it is ever OK to hit a child and he didn't deserve it at all. i feel terrible about it and never want to to do it again.

i'd like to make the clarification that i've swatted my sons bum ..but never full out spanked him. in my eyes there is a difference (not trying to justify my actions in any way)

my mom did the pull the pants down ..over the knee spanking thing a few times with us as kids and i would never ever do that..


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

I voted #1. I haven't done it and hopefully never will. I have felt like it a couple of times though and have had to leave the room to calm down.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

My mom was a hitter. I feel it's wrong and would never hit my kids. I understand and wouldn't judge parents that struggle with this though--we all make mistakes. I have my issues that I struggle with.

I am sad that there are parents here that hit their kids and don't think it's wrong or want to stop.







:


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## rebeccalizzie (Apr 1, 2005)

I voted number 2, and I feel terrible about it.







I am not very patient, and I reacted in anger to DD a couple of times when she was smaller, and smacked her butt. Part of why I really try to support people in not hitting is because I think some support like that would have helped me--I really could have used someone giving me other options so that when I flipped out I would have been able to redirect myself more easily. I think it's interesting that out of my siblings, I was spanked a lot and have to really work not to spank, my sister and brother were almost never spanked and seem much more able to control their tempers (although they don't have kids yet, so I don't know if they will hit their kids.) Anecdotal only, but it does make me believe that violence perpetuates violence.


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## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

I voted #1, because I have never hit ds or anyone else's child as an adult. But I did nanny for my 15-month-old cousin the summer I was 15 and was instructed to slap her hand if she got into anything she wasn't supposed to. I remember doing this, but I would consider myself a child at the time. I still feel bad about it, though.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I'm feeling silly. When I was a child, I hit children all the time--usually accidentally.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

No, I have not. But I am also one of the few who never endured being hit as a child. So I don't think I'm better/have more restraint than anyone else. I was fortunate in that this particular cycle does not exist in my family (well, it did but was broken by my parents).

I have the utmost admiration for those who have hit but realize that it was wrong and are working to prevent it from ever happening again. And I am heartbroken by those who believe that violence against young people is acceptable.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
No, I have not. But I am also one of the few who never endured being hit as a child.

Endured? Oh, my. Sometimes, I don't even know what I'm doing here.

I was spanked as a child, and I never thought of it as something that had to be "endured". It was just one of those things...like bee stings, stubbed toes, etc. (and hurt less than either). Childhood was full of various aches, pains and injuries. This forum sometimes sounds like every child who was ever spanked was being beaten black and blue three times a week. While I realize that is the reality some kids live with, it's nothing like what many of us experienced.

I get a lot of food for thought here about ways to interact with my kids, but I think it's time for a vacation...

Quote:

So I don't think I'm better/have more restraint than anyone else. I was fortunate in that this particular cycle does not exist in my family (well, it did but was broken by my parents).
Unacceptable parenting isn't always part of a "cycle". Sometimes, people just treat their kids like crap, even if they weren't treated that way.


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## Zazenmama (Oct 6, 2006)

I voted 1.. I get frustrated with my kids like all mothers.. but I have never hit any of them at all.. not a swat not a tap- not on any level. And i never will.

I don't really consider being hit by another human being all the comparable to a bee sting either.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Endured? Oh, my. Sometimes, I don't even know what I'm doing here.

I was spanked as a child, and I never thought of it as something that had to be "endured". It was just one of those things...like bee stings, stubbed toes, etc. (and hurt less than either). Childhood was full of various aches, pains and injuries. This forum sometimes sounds like every child who was ever spanked was being beaten black and blue three times a week. While I realize that is the reality some kids live with, it's nothing like what many of us experienced.

I get a lot of food for thought here about ways to interact with my kids, but I think it's time for a vacation...

Unacceptable parenting isn't always part of a "cycle". Sometimes, people just treat their kids like crap, even if they weren't treated that way.

True, but violence is very much part cyclical and passed on from generation to generation. People who never have been hit are much less likely to perpetuate hitting. My point was more to emphasize that my lack of temptation to hit is due less to anything inherent in me and more to my upbringing -- which was free from hitting.

I'm sorry you feel upset by my choice of words but around this issue, I choose them very deliberately and will not mince them. To me, being hit IS something to endure because it violates a person's body, is violent and is unnecessary. And I do not see being hit by another human being as akin to accidental childhood injuries like stubbing a toe or encountering an angry bee.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

never!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
And I do not see being hit by another human being as akin to accidental childhood injuries like stubbing a toe or encountering an angry bee.

I knew, even as a small child, that mom would occasionally spank when she was very stressed and frustrated. I also knew, even as a small child, that poking around in the flowers when there were bees could get me stung. Sometimes, I ignored the warning signs (overstressed mom or angrily buzzing bees), and ended up in pain. As far as I was concerned then, the only real difference is that the pain from a bee sting was much worse and lasted a _lot_ longer than the pain from a spanking. So, if you don't see it that way, that's fine...but those were _my_ experiences and that's how _I_ see it - and how I saw it as a child. Spankings barely registered on my radar. They weren't something to "endure", whether you choose to see it that way from the outside 30+ years later or not.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I knew, even as a small child, that mom would occasionally spank when she was very stressed and frustrated. I also knew, even as a small child, that poking around in the flowers when there were bees could get me stung. Sometimes, I ignored the warning signs (overstressed mom or angrily buzzing bees), and ended up in pain. As far as I was concerned then, the only real difference is that the pain from a bee sting was much worse and lasted a _lot_ longer than the pain from a spanking. So, if you don't see it that way, that's fine...but those were _my_ experiences and that's how _I_ see it - and how I saw it as a child. Spankings barely registered on my radar. They weren't something to "endure", whether you choose to see it that way from the outside 30+ years later or not.

We have very different experiences and I think we will just have to agree to respect one another's perspective. Maybe it is because I never have been hit that the thought of it horrifies me to such an extent? It makes me wonder how a generation of un-hit or less-often hit children would perceive "spanking." Thought-provoking, anyhow.

I am glad you don't feel that being hit registered above bee stings and that you didn't feel it was something that violated you or was to be endured. I still feel strongly that no child should have to experience it but I can see how you might feel differently.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama*
True, but violence is very much part cyclical and passed on from generation to generation. People who never have been hit are much less likely to perpetuate hitting. My point was more to emphasize that my lack of temptation to hit is due less to anything inherent in me and more to my upbringing -- which was free from hitting.

I think it makes sense that most people who spank have experienced spankings as a child. They grew up seeing it as something that just is part of child raising. Even when we know that it is NOT ok to hit, that conditioning can be much deeper than just *knowing* that it's not ok.
People who weren't spanked, and didn't grow up seeing it as a normal parenting activity, are less likely to view it as a part of child raising.
It doesn't HAVE to mean they won't hit when they are angry, it just means that they probably don't equate hitting with discipline.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kamilla626* 
Not as an adult, no. But I've felt the kind of rage and frustration that I could imagine leading to physical aggression.

Hugs to those of you who are struggling with the guilt and shame of having hit out of anger.

I've never hit a child, but I too have felt such rage that I've said, "This is why people beat their children." I've never had the desire to hit, but the rage has been there.

Someone mentioned that they were spanked more than their siblings and have a harder time refraining from spanking (or something like that.) My sister and I were both hit, but she much more than I and she was a spanker for a while. It's strange because I distinctly remember being hit as a child and thinking in the moment that there is no way I will ever hit my child. I would think that someone who was hit more often would have more resolve to not hit, but sadly it doesn't seem to work that way.

Storm Bride, although I'm sure you ddin't intend it to be, I found your post offensive. I was not beaten black and blue and really wasn't hit very hard or severely as a child, but I can assure you, I felt very violated and knew that what was being done to me was WRONG. It had NOTHING to do with pain, and everything to do with being VIOLATED. Although the degree might vary, a child being hit is a child being violated and it IS something that children have to ENDURE. If your experience was different, I can respect that, but please don't imply that being hit is "not that bad," or akin to stubbing a toe.


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## Camellia (Jun 2, 2004)

Dh and I both spanked our oldest for about 2 months as a form of discipline. We felt terrible every time and promised him we would never spank him again. We've held true to that promise for almost 5 years. None of our children will ever be hit in anyway ever again.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I think it makes sense that most people who spank have experienced spankings as a child. They grew up seeing it as something that just is part of child raising. Even when we know that it is NOT ok to hit, that conditioning can be much deeper than just *knowing* that it's not ok.
People who weren't spanked, and didn't grow up seeing it as a normal parenting activity, are less likely to view it as a part of child raising.
It doesn't HAVE to mean they won't hit when they are angry, it just means that they probably don't equate hitting with discipline.


I agree with everything you have said. I think I am ultra-senstive about pointing out that I never have been hit because I don't want anyone to think that I feel like I am a better parent/person than anyone who has. I truly do NOT feel that way. I really admire people who can experience something as a child and choose to reject it as a parent (even if they are not 100% successful in their efforts).

Not hitting is easy for me but NOT because I am a better parent. It is because this behavior was never modeled for me. DH is as loving a parent as I am but he struggles with this. He was hit many times as a child and the urge is alive and well within him. This is one of the reasons I view hitting children as part of a "cycle" of violence. It only takes one person to break that chain of conditioning.


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## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

I'm not proud of it, but yes, on two occasions I have hit my own son. Once I can't even remember why, I think I was just at the end of my rope and needed a mommy time out, but hit him instead.

The second time, he bit me really hard on the back of my leg, it startled me and then made me angry (all within like 2 seconds) and I hit his behind.

I'm working my way into my own with discipline and I have vowed to not use hitting as punishment. I like the fact I can say to my son, "mommy doesn't hit you, so why would you hit her?" or "we don't hit in our family."

FWIW, I apologized after both incidents (DS is just now 2, so I'm not sure it made much difference) and vowed to better handle myself in the future.


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## melissel (Jun 30, 2004)

Never, although I have felt the urge maybe 3 or 4 times. There was the time my then 3 y.o. stood up in the bath and screamed directly in my face, about an inch away from my nose. That was the first time, and I had the sudden urge to slap her. It felt exactly like lightning from my brain to my elbow, and I was amazed at how instinctive it was







I thank God that feeling never made it to my hand, and never has. I DID, however, pick her up and squeeze her a little too tightly (for my comfort, not hers) when she was in the midst of a screaming rage and flew at me, arms flying. I successfully turned the urge to hit back in self-defense into a pick-up-and-hug-tightly move. Still, it scares me how it seems to almost happen before I even recognize the feeling.

Storm Bride, I hear you. I was spanked/hit as a child too, and at the time it just felt normal, if offensive. However, as an adult now, I see what words alone can do to my daughter, I can't imagine adding violence to it as well. And when I think back to how I felt when I was hit--my mother slapping me across the face, hitting me on the shoulder, my dad spanking me when I was little--I do, in retrospect, think it was something I had to "endure." Yes, of course I am a functional, whole, sane (??







) person, but I also survived formula, CIO at 2 months, and no car seats. It doesn't make it OK. I'm happy that you feel OK about being spanked, thank goodness it hasn't affected your life in a major way. But some of us feel differently. For pete's sake, my dad hit me with a pillow once when he was so angry he was afraid he might really hurt me. And while I guess I'm grateful that he didn't actually lay hands on me, what I remember is being completely humiliated, and it does still sting a bit. KWIM? So yeah, I think any kid who is hit is "enduring" violence, the same way a baby left to cry in her stroller while her parent shops at the mall and ignores her is "enduring" CIO--maybe not in its worst form, but CIO nonetheless.

Anyway, that's just my .02.


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

I hit ds1 twice. Once he kicked me very hard and I unthinkingly smacked his leg. It was not a hard hit, but just the fact that I hit him was very upseting to him. The worse part was my initail reaction. For the first 30 seconds or so I was more angry with him for crying. And said something like "well then you shouldn't have kicked me!"







:

Then I felt doubly guilty. I did apologize to him a bit later. And, although it was an awful thing to do, there was a positive outcome. I gained more compassion and understanding for how difficult it must be for him to control himself. I'm 32 and didn't stop myself from hitting. How much harder it must be for him! Also, I realized the "spanking" did not help teach him anything productive. He was too upset to learn anything. So, strange as it sounds, I became a better mother from hitting my child.







:

The second incident I feel marginally less guilty about. It was a reflexive/protective mama bear instinct. Ds1 bit the new baby and I tapped him upside the head. That sounds bad... but really, I did control it and I did not actually physically hurt him (although I did hurt his feelings). Still, not the best response and I felt bad about it.

I am resolved to make those the last incidences of adult hitting in our house.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
Storm Bride, although I'm sure you ddin't intend it to be, I found your post offensive. I was not beaten black and blue and really wasn't hit very hard or severely as a child, but I can assure you, I felt very violated and knew that what was being done to me was WRONG. It had NOTHING to do with pain, and everything to do with being VIOLATED. Although the degree might vary, a child being hit is a child being violated and it IS something that children have to ENDURE. If your experience was different, I can respect that, but please don't imply that being hit is "not that bad," or akin to stubbing a toe.

Here we go again. I'm beginning to hate this forum, despite its value as a resource for finding techniques to address situations that are hard to deal with.

Why should you be offended? My experience wasn't yours. It was _mine_. Every day on this forum, I read blanket statements about parents who spank being abusive, about the children who feel this way and that way. Those experiences were not mine - those feelings were not mine. Somehow, it's okay for everyone on this forum to speak for the child I was 30+ years ago, and make untrue blanket statements about my experiences and feelings. But, when I clearly state that _I_ didn't feel that way, somehow _I'm_ being offensive to others.

You obviously do _not_ respect that my experience was different, because you're asking me to not "imply" that being hit wasn't that bad or was akin to stubbing my toe. I did more than imply that- I stated it. I'm not going to pretend that the spankings I received were this horrible, traumatizing experience for me when thet weren't. Why is talking about _my_ experiences and _my_ feelings not allowed? You're asking me to claim that my experience was something it wasn't, in order to line it up with yours...yet claiming to "respect" that my experience was different.

If spankings for you weren't on the same scale as a stubbed toe or bee sting, that's _fine_ - I wasn't claiming otherwise. But, I'm not going to lie about a very happy childhood because somebody else thinks I was experiencing a bunch of trauma and feelings of violation that I wasn't experiencing.

I have never, ever implied that my experiences with spanking are true of other people - I've never implied that other people must feel that same way as me. Yet, I've been told in this thread and another one a while back that I'm not respecting other people's experiences when I say that _I_ wasn't violated and that _I_ didn't find spankings any worse than a stubbed toe. Why on earth would you, or anybody else, be offended because _I_ wasn't particularly bothered by spankings?


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## Blue Dragonfly (Jun 19, 2005)

I hit my brother 2 times when I was an adult and he was a child (we're 13 years apart). The look on his face convinced me that I never want to hit my own children (I have apologised to him and thanked him for being my guinea pig - he forgave me







)

I was spanked as a child and I never want to violate my children's boundaries and sense of trust that way.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

We live what we learn.
I was spanked with a hand, belt, and anything my Grandparents could pick up at the moment. They were LOVELY people...I never lacked for love or anything, they spanked "with love" and were basically very good people.
I always said being spanked never harmed me.
Didn't see what GOOD it did, as I don't recall WHY I was ever spanked...but remember every spanking...
Then I became a mother. My reaction TO THIS DAY to everything they do that even slightly bothers me is to hit them. I DON'T, beyond what I have admitted to in this thread, but all of a sudden it dawned on me...the harm it did, to MY children. I learned violence as a reaction. As a problem solving skill. As a tool. It became part of me & still is. I resent that. I resent them for that. I have learned that while I don't hate them for hitting me, per se...I am a very paranoid, distrustful person. Any ganders as to why?
I have also learned that better for a child to make a mess, not "obey", heck...burn the house down - then for them to think for one single solitary second that they can't put their trust in me. Than to think that I could harm or be disloyal to them. Their security in me, in themselves & in the world is more important than any discipline or any lesson.

I caution any spankers out there, your child is NOT thinking "I was wrong, I shouldn't have done that..." - they ARE thinking "why don't they love me?" I personally guarantee it. Please reconsider.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

I spanked DS once. One time. And I felt awful. We were on vacation and DH went to park the car and I was in the hotel room with DS (3) and DD (16 months.) I was unpacking and the kids were playing and suddenly I realized it was too quiet. Immediately, it hit me that DS had left the room and I scooped up DD and went running after him, brought him back (he was all of the way down the hall) and explained to him that we had to had to stay in "our room", that it was different from home, and that it wasn't safe to leave without mama and daddy. A few minutes later he did the same thing, and I chased him, again, although he got further this time, and while he laughed like crazy I explained the rules again. I sat down to nurse DD, DS walked to the door, looked at me and I said, "DS-middle name, do NOT go out that door." He looked right at me, and ran out as fast as he could.

I delatched DD and ran after him, only to have the door slam shut behind me. With visions of DD drowning in the toilet or otherwise getting hurt, I chased (my very fast) DS down the halls. I picked him up, kicking and screaming and ran to the front desk holding him, flailing and yelling, to get another key for our room to get back to DD. When we got back, I smacked him, once, on the butt, and said to NEVER DO THAT AGAIN, that mama was so scared that something could have happened to him or his sister. He actually looked more indignant than anything, but I felt like an ass....and then like a really, mean person, spanking a kid.

Since then, never again and I would not - I just play back what a jerk I felt like and how I would feel if his adult version could have seen how badly I handled that.


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## rambunctiouscurls (Oct 4, 2006)

I hit my sister when I was a teenager. I knew it was wrong. I just sort of snapped. I was already depressed and felt lost, betrayed (by my mother)...

She looked shocked and I felt like the scum of the earth
. I'll never do it again!

I was spanked/beat as a child. What hurt more was the fact that my mother often beat us up for the most trivial reasons abused her position of authority to invoke fear. she said so herself. she thought scared children meant obedient children. While that may be true, it' s too bad fear doesn't equal respect.


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## Hippiemommie (Jul 3, 2005)

I have never nor will ever hit DS but about 5 years ago I had broken my ankle and it was in a splint when my friend and her 4 & 9 year old came over. She had to use to restroom so she left the 4 yr old with me. I was laid up on the couch and couldn't move. She said, "Becareful and don't bump into her leg, she hurt it" and headed down the hall when her 4 year old pulled back her fist and punched me in the ankle! I didn't even think about it just smacked her arm. Not hard, she looked at me stunned and I looked at her stunned. She didn't cry and I told her Mom what happened. I felt very bad about it.


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## CelticMomma (Feb 3, 2006)

I've never hit my kids, exactly... How about that.

Humorous story: My daughter (who has a flare for the dramatics, but mostly in a good way!) has accused me of it on a few occasions. For example, this one will live in infamy, on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago, she walked past my foot just as I was moving it, and ended up with a scratch somewhere on her body from my big toe nail. That incident will never be forgotten. It is frequently brought up, as in "remember that time you scratched me with your toe nail?" There are other incidents like that where my daughter will say "remember that time you hit me?" and I will be positively baffled, and she'll elaborate "it was with your elbow" or some other body part that it would be nearly impossible to purposely hit someone with. My chin, my ear, etc, etc.

Not so humorous story: I was raised in a hitting household. I have vowed to never hit my kids, and so far, I've managed to do that. Recently, though, it's been occurring to me, and I've been fighting that impulse with all my might. I DON'T want to hit my kids.

So, I sat down with DD and we had a heart to heart talk about it. Here's what I told her:

In some other families, like my family when I was growing up, kids get hit when they do things like (insert behavioral issue here). It is my belief that that is very wrong, and I don't ever want to hit you. Sometimes, when I'm feeling very angry or hurt, it's hard for me to remember that hitting is not right, like when you kick me or hit me. So, I have to remind myself "Hitting is wrong. I will not hit my children." It's hard work, but I love you very much, and I promise to not hit you, so I work at it. I would like it if you would work just as hard at not hitting *me* either.

I swear, it was like a light bulb went off in her head. She's five years old, and when she gets mad, she will frequently hit me, mostly just a gentle jab, but it's definitely aggression and it's not cool with me. I know that she *wants* to hit me much harder, and she's toning it down because I have taught her to. But, somehow, knowing that it's hard for me to remember not to hit, too, seems to have helped her. We had a great talk after that, about how hard it is to deal with anger, and ways that we can work on managing our anger together. I'm thinking it might have helped a LOT. I hope so, anyway.

So, how have people dealt with talking about being spanked as a child? We went into that a little bit, but I really toned it down because I don't want my daughter to be afraid of her grandmother (although they will never be alone together). It's hard to answer "why do some people think it's okay to hit children?" I just don't have a good one for that. Particularly when it's about my own family.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I voted number two. It is my what I expect of myself not to use physical punishment with my children. I don't always live up to that. When ds was two, we spanked him for a while and had the "What the hell are we doing?" revelation. But since then it has been a constant struggle not to yell, hit, etc when I am angry at him for something. I have to constantly be concious of my mood and how I'm treating him.


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## carolhagan (Oct 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
We live what we learn.
I was spanked with a hand, belt, and anything my Grandparents could pick up at the moment. They were LOVELY people...I never lacked for love or anything, they spanked "with love" and were basically very good people.
I always said being spanked never harmed me.
Didn't see what GOOD it did, as I don't recall WHY I was ever spanked...but remember every spanking...
Then I became a mother. My reaction TO THIS DAY to everything they do that even slightly bothers me is to hit them. I DON'T, beyond what I have admitted to in this thread, but all of a sudden it dawned on me...the harm it did, to MY children. I learned violence as a reaction. As a problem solving skill. As a tool. It became part of me & still is. I resent that. I resent them for that. I have learned that while I don't hate them for hitting me, per se...I am a very paranoid, distrustful person. Any ganders as to why?
I have also learned that better for a child to make a mess, not "obey", heck...burn the house down - then for them to think for one single solitary second that they can't put their trust in me. Than to think that I could harm or be disloyal to them. Their security in me, in themselves & in the world is more important than any discipline or any lesson.

I caution any spankers out there, your child is NOT thinking "I was wrong, I shouldn't have done that..." - they ARE thinking "why don't they love me?" I personally guarantee it. Please reconsider.


Yep, I agree and can relate to your entire post.

FTR, when I was spanked I thought "I hate them. They are so mean. I wish I could hit them" etc. etc. etc. I DID NOT think of the bad that I did.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Carol just posted the post that I was going to quote and then added another excellent point.

I don't remember being spanked, but I remember after fighting thinking, "I hate them, Why don't they listen" or "why didn't I say it like this because that was what I meant". I didn't really think about what I did, I always tried to excuse it or justify it (something my dh says I still do). I'd stay up for hours crying, sobbing and thinking of brilliant comebacks or ways to get them to listen to my side.

Spanking also can mean that the misbehavior does not have to be responsible for what they did wrong-- or find a way to make it right. You just have to try to remember not to do it or to not get caught-- but the 'process' part might be skipped *unless a parent makes a concerted effort to both spank and discuss/process*. I don't think my parents ever helped me work through things, problem solve, discuss options (what I could have done) etc. Basically, if I did soemthing wrong I wanted to hide it. I didn't want to deal with it at all and I didn't feel comfortable coming to them with it (even though I knew they love me 200% and would always no matter what, etc etc.)

But whatever it was about my past, or me (I don't really think it is only my parents or whatever, it is multifaceted)... it does have that effect that rmbzm said... it has caused me to react with anger and to lack other skills that would be very helpful.

Quote:

I learned violence as a reaction. As a problem solving skill. As a tool.
I do think I have this idea that anger/violence/shouting/threatening is somehow a 'tool'- that when dh tunes me out or what I'm doing is not effective I have to escalate to 'be the parent' and 'teach' the lesson- and it can be easy to resort to shouting, at the least- and at the worst hitting. Problem is that I forget I can do the teaching part later on when we are both calm-- not in the heat of the moment.

Hitting hasn't worked- and was never planned. The first time we both cried together and I felt horrible. Of course, you think you can never do *that* again, and well, I did, and the thing was that it made me angrier at first because ds totally was unphased and contniued whatever but then said (so effectively) to me "Don't HIT ME, mommy". I felt like an idiot because my first reaction to that from my 2 year old was anger and thinking 'well if you hadn't hit me first I wouldn't have hit you'-- now how old am I??

The reason that I decided not to spank is because I know that I could never be consistent about it. I felt that some days I would use it too easily and THAT was not something I was comfortable with. So I guess I just have to hold on to the belief that struggling to learn about this and aiming for GD will be a better alternative than using spanking as an acceptable alternative. I can sometimes almost rationalize that controlled and completely thought out spanking conditions might be good for someone like me, because then I wouldn't be lashing out uncontrollably when stressed/pushed-- but then I realize that it doesn't really work that way.

However sometimes I struggle with that because I think when you are mostly modelling gd and outburst/mistake is much more shocking (and harmful, maybe) to my child than it would be to a child that is used to a punitive discipline? Coupled with wondering if things wouldn't escalate so much if I knew there was this "line" and when crossed I could just spank him. And before the flames start, I think this is because I truly have very few gd models. When I examine that statemetn and the concepts I realize that of course, I would cross the line- and that the lesson of "you don't hit, but I can" is NOT the lesson I want ds to learn from me.

GD makes a ton of sense, but in the heat of the moment it seems so hard to know how to do it sometimes. I fall back on something that is ugly and stupid and damaging-- and I don't exactly know how to correct that, but to keep the goals gd and keep trying and learning and thinking and discussing- and not beat myself up too much.

I also remember the facts about gd (and listen on other b-boards, here, there, everywhere) to be pretty much reassured that spanking doesn't work. I swear almost EVERY post on boards about spanking there is a parent that says the very things that prove it doesn't work:
- I lost it (inconsistency due to parental mood)
- I only did it 2-3 times for dc (and you know I probably didn't have to) but this dc I have to do it all the time and it never seems to work. s/he never gets it or
- I felt awful spanking dc and we both cried afterwards

I'm so glad this got brought up here and the mother's rage post because I have been SOO wanting to discuss this and post and this has gotten me to do it which I really need.

Jessica


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## sebarnes (Feb 2, 2005)

I wasn't sure how to vote because before I had children and had formulated my parenting strategy, I had occasionally spanked nieces or nephews while babysitting. I hate the fact that I did it, but I come from a family where spanking is a normal and accepted part of discipline, and unless told otherwise, it's okay to discipline relatives kids, so I didn't even think to question it until I got out on my own and started seeing other parenting styles. So, NOW I hate that I did it, but at the time I didn't see anything wrong with it. Although now that I think about it, I had a hard time doing it even then, so I guess that even though I conciously didn't think it was wrong, I subconsiously felt it wasn't right. I am just glad I figured it out before I had dd!!


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
I've never hit a child, but I too have felt such rage that I've said, "This is why people beat their children." I've never had the desire to hit, but the rage has been there.

I second that. My parents spanked on rare occaison. I was spanked 6-7 times, always over clothes, and never even redness. Yet I still think it's horribly wrong and that my relationship with my parents would be all the better if they had treated me as a real person when I was in their care. They would also very rarely hit in other ways. I was kicked twice, slapped in the face a few times (for very moronic reasons, I may add), jerked. The worst was the emotional turmoil I faced from feeling unloved.

All of that is part of the reason why Dh and I made the commitment to GD before Ds was born. It's a good thing, too, because early in his life I was still so stressed and tense from my childhood (and I was never even spanked past 12!) that when I got angry my entire body would clench and I swear, it felt like my very nerves needed to strike. Like it wasn't me who wanted to hit but a deep recessed memory or something. It's hard to explain. As a child I release anger by doing mild self abuse. Mostly biting my hands and arms, sometimes smashing my head into the wall. When Ds was younger I also ended up biting myself and one time ripped a big chunk out of my shirt. It's been months since I've done that, though. He still does annoying things, (like in the thread I started LOL) but since I've never hit him my desire to hit or be violent in any (cognizant) way is completely gone. It's like the feeling to get angry enough that I wanted to hit left simply because I never gave into it. Make sense?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
Storm Bride, although I'm sure you ddin't intend it to be, I found your post offensive. I was not beaten black and blue and really wasn't hit very hard or severely as a child, but I can assure you, I felt very violated and knew that what was being done to me was WRONG. It had NOTHING to do with pain, and everything to do with being VIOLATED. Although the degree might vary, a child being hit is a child being violated and it IS something that children have to ENDURE. If your experience was different, I can respect that, but please don't imply that being hit is "not that bad," or akin to stubbing a toe.

I also felt violated but probably for a different reason. Even though my parents only spanked over clothing, I always felt vulnerable, naked and exposed when it was happening. Also, I don't know if it was due to nerve intergration or what, but while being hit on the bottom I also felt like I was being hit in the







:. It was very annoying, not to mention...annoying. I can't think of any other way to put that. They never actually touched me there, though (don't want to give the idea they did.) However, that is why I do consider spanking sexual abuse. Not to mention if I walked up and grabbed any of your partners tushes you'd probably consider that a sexual advance.

~Nay


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin* 
However, that is why I do consider spanking sexual abuse.

I do as well.


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## kwren23 (Jul 28, 2006)

dont normally post here, but i feel like i should because i voted other... i dont normally spank. i have never used it as a form of discipline. i dont think it accomplishes anything and i dont want to hurt my kids, however i have smacked my big kid on the butt, hard. i didnt feel bad about it at all.

he was about 3 and after many many talks about why he shouldnt run in front of traffic, he pulled out of my grasp and darted out into a busy parking lot and came within inches of getting squashed by a car. it scared the crap out of me. he could have gotten killed. i ran after him and grabbed him and pulled him back up on the curb and i smacked his little butt. he looked at me with his eyes all huge and wailed and i gave him a huge hug and said you could have been DEAD and started bawling. he never ran out in front of a moving car again. i cant feel guilty about that smack.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

We GD, so no spanking here. And of course I think it's wrong! So I don't hit mine or other kids now. But I became a mother 15 years after the rest of my siblings had their kids and I followed their ultra-conservative religious-driving "spare the rod" philosophy for their kids. I was 18 at the time.

My middle sister used a "whipping spoon". I followed her lead and at 18 years old, had not the slightest idea about children or parenting (and came from a spanking family), so I used "the Spoon" on her kids, too.

So, yes I hit their kids, per their direction, and although legally an adult, still an infant myself in understanding the slightest about parenting philosopy.


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## moppity (Aug 15, 2005)

I never have but was so so so tempted when my best friend's BIG 3 1/2yo punched me in the stomach when I was 37 weeks pregnant with DD...mama instinct kicking in I suppose but I didn't do it.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

There was a three month period when my dd was between 3 and 4 wherein I spanked out of desperation (she's nearly 8 now). I can't forgive myself for it. We've actually talked about it when she was asking questions about other parents spanking their children. It's uncomfortable but I'm honest with her.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Spankings barely registered on my radar. They weren't something to "endure", whether you choose to see it that way from the outside 30+ years later or not.

It's probably worthwhile to point out that you indicated in another thread (about spanking) that you felt that dealing with others using violence was at times justified, and in fact was not a particularly unusual circumstance. You then matter of factly related multiple encounters of personal violence and violation by way of example, and indicated regret at not using violence in another undescribed interaction with another person.

I think it's worth considering, dear, that your 'radar' about what constitutes emotional trauma due to personal violation might not be the best gauge on which to measure.

A soldier coming off the front lines would scoff at someone feeling frightened and distressed over 'simply' being shot at. A suburban high school student walking innocently to school would have an entirely different response to such an episode, and would very likely feel a tremendous degree of stress, fear and after effect.

I'd like to suggest that the high school student's response represents the more natural of the two.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

*I voted I've used "spanking" as discipline in the past, but I'm trying to change my behavior. Idon't like smacking and makes me feel really guilty even when they just laugh at me or hit me back, i'm suposed to be setting an example to them and teaching them that hitting is not allowed so i can't really do that if i smack when they are bad because its just sending mixed messages. I want to try gd but will need to talk about it with my dp as he seems to think smacking is ok he will smack our ds if he won't eat his food







or if he hits either him or his sisters







*


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 
*or if he hits either him or his sisters







*

Hitting to teach NOT to hit...ahhh...I would forbid him to touch our child. Dealbreaker for me.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I knew, even as a small child, that mom would occasionally spank when she was very stressed and frustrated. I also knew, even as a small child, that poking around in the flowers when there were bees could get me stung. Sometimes, I ignored the warning signs (overstressed mom or angrily buzzing bees), and ended up in pain. As far as I was concerned then, the only real difference is that the pain from a bee sting was much worse and lasted a _lot_ longer than the pain from a spanking. So, if you don't see it that way, that's fine...but those were _my_ experiences and that's how _I_ see it - and how I saw it as a child. Spankings barely registered on my radar. They weren't something to "endure", whether you choose to see it that way from the outside 30+ years later or not.

I "get" what you are saying.









For me...In the grand scheme of things I have much more resentment over other things my parents chose for me (homeschooling, not allowing me to get surgery on my hip because it was too invasive, letting me get overweight, modeling/allowing me poor diet, etc) than I do being "spanked". Now when the spankings were when I was pushing fifteen and turned into my dad punching me on the arms because he couldn't handle my additude, now THAT still bothers me. He didn't want to recognize WHY I was being so bad. I knew I was being bad too. I CHOSE to act that way because I wanted to be defiant. Looking back I see now that it was the only thing I had control over and I exersized it the wrong way. I was angry over being isolated, sexually abused, and by this point physically and emotionally abused.

Now as for how I learned to react....I hate the fact that they modeled violence to me because my knee jerk reaction when my DC push my buttons for the 50millionth time is to want to smack them.

oops gotta take DD1 to school we'll be late







:


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## BeBe123 (May 25, 2006)

I'm shocked by the number of votes for - spanking is sometimes an acceptable form of discipline!

I wouldn't have expected from this board.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I was just thinking that.







I am very disappointed.


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Hitting to teach NOT to hit...ahhh...I would forbid him to touch our child. Dealbreaker for me.

*
Your right it makes no sense, i'm going to have to say something and if he doesn't like it tough, hitting to teach not to hit is just daft.*


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beckyand3littlemonsters* 
*
Your right it makes no sense, i'm going to have to say something and if he doesn't like it tough, hitting to teach not to hit is just daft.*









I am very glad you have decided to take a stand. And, for the record, hitting for ANY reason is daft!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I just can't have an "open mind" to child abuse. Sorry. I am starting to think this should have been just a poll with no written replies. Reading some of this ON THIS SITE is really unnearving.


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## maminatural (Nov 3, 2006)

First of all, I don't consider myself being abused as a child nor have I abused mine.

I asked for you to read my response and all that I implied with an open mind.

It's like everything else in this world... everyone's perspective is different. Unfortunately, the moment someone with a different experience or perspective comes around and challenges our views... we tend to close up and simply discard them when in fact, we should embrace their experience in order to understand the issue better. Clumping every experience together and labeling it doesn't seem a very wise way of appreciating other people's opinion/perspective... usually that's why we just get stuck in resolving issues instead of understanding where each one is coming from.

As for reading my post "on this site"... I'm interested in knowing just what you mean. Natural parenting comes in different shapes and colors.

If you wanted to conduct a poll without responses... I apologize but expressing our views is part of what we intelligent parents do, right?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Hitting a child is abuse. Period.
I am sorry you are in denial about that.
This site is a haven of sorts & THAT is why I don't like reading this kind of thing here...there are LOTS of sites you can go sing the praises of child beating on.


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## maminatural (Nov 3, 2006)

Marie, I think you totally missed my points... but I'll stop right here. I don't sing praises about child beating either... sorry you misunderstood... or perhaps I didn't express myself clearly.

This site IS a haven... glad to have that in common at least.


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Whew! All sides need to simmer down. We all do what we want anyway; there's no need to beat *each other* up over it.

My mother never once hit me, but I wish she had hit me rather than shout at me the way she did. She was struggling, having been hit herself, but the anger was still there, so I don't necessarily give kudos to people who don't hit. I've seen a lot of non-hitters who don't seem like great parents, either. And I've seen plenty of truly loving people who swat or spank occasionally when their children are small and although I disagree, I can't argue that their children have turned out just great- fine people who are genuinely close to their parents who have not been "abused" in any way.

There wasn't a response on the poll for me. Mine would be, "Although I don't believe in it, I've hit a child, and I don't feel bad about it." It happens. People make mistakes. The stress of feeling horrible guilt over a mistake seems actually to make people more likely to reach the end of that rope and make the same mistake again. I've messed up, I'll try my best not to again, but I'm a really good parent and that's what will matter.

Unfortunately topics like these are often impossible for people to discuss with a truly open mind, because beliefs are so strong and so linked with our identity as good parents. But name-calling is just as bad if you ask me.







:


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

In my opinion there is a big difference between child beating and true spanking.

Child beating is something done out of hate, anger, a power trip, etc etc etc with no regard or care for the child.








Spanking is usually done as consequence to a bad choice in the hopes that the bad choice will not be repeated. It is often done because the spanker does not have any other tools, does not know of any other tools, or is completely at their wits end. Of course their are many who do it out of anger but do not "beat" their children.

Neither are right..I believe they are both profoundly wrong.

However, not everyone is as enlightened as the ones who found GD before becoming parents, who've never spanked, or never had spanking modeled.

I was raised "spare the rod spoil the child". I swore I would never spank my kids. However, I found myself doing it when my oldest was younger because I knew no other way and I was at my wits end.







: I deeply regret it. I HATE my knee jerk reaction and I am doing my very best to squash it out of me. It's been a long road and I'm no where near the end yet. I am far from perfect but I am learning ways to handle my children that does not include violence (many thanks to MDC who opened my eyes







). One of my greatest hopes for my children is that when they have children gentle parenting will come natural to them.








~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















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## maminatural (Nov 3, 2006)

Liz... I couldn't have put it any better myself.

Alison, I appreciate your post.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Silvercrest - you seem to be on both sides.

No, spanking as "discipline" is NOT OK. Hitting another person is NOT OK. Especially one who can't fight back.
Not OK. For any reason. Ever.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maminatural* 
I do know of parents that on ocassion will use a spanking and it does work for them because they're not angry when they do it.... that makes a difference in my opinion.

I do believe that hitting a child is always wrong. I also don't think it ever "works" as a discipline tool. The goal of discipline should be to teach your children to be self-disciplined. Spanking is used to get children to behave out of fear. A parent might say "if you hit your sister you will get a spanking," the child does not stop hitting his sister because he understands it is wrong, he only stops because he doesn't want a spanking (and quite likely still hits sis when mom and dad aren't watching).


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## Greenie (Sep 27, 2005)

Never. If I'm lucky.. NEVER.

I know it gets frustrating, but in those situations, you just have to realise that you aren't your parents, and that everything to do shapes this little soul. I don't want to ever see the look of hurt in his eyes the day that I hit him. I hope that day never comes.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Good point, SSU! Spanking DOES teach how to be sneaky & not get caught. GREAT lesson!


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Here we go again. I'm beginning to hate this forum, despite its value as a resource for finding techniques to address situations that are hard to deal with.

Why should you be offended? My experience wasn't yours. It was _mine_. Every day on this forum, I read blanket statements about parents who spank being abusive, about the children who feel this way and that way. Those experiences were not mine - those feelings were not mine. Somehow, it's okay for everyone on this forum to speak for the child I was 30+ years ago, and make untrue blanket statements about my experiences and feelings. But, when I clearly state that _I_ didn't feel that way, somehow _I'm_ being offensive to others.

You obviously do _not_ respect that my experience was different, because you're asking me to not "imply" that being hit wasn't that bad or was akin to stubbing my toe. I did more than imply that- I stated it. I'm not going to pretend that the spankings I received were this horrible, traumatizing experience for me when thet weren't. Why is talking about _my_ experiences and _my_ feelings not allowed? You're asking me to claim that my experience was something it wasn't, in order to line it up with yours...yet claiming to "respect" that my experience was different.

If spankings for you weren't on the same scale as a stubbed toe or bee sting, that's _fine_ - I wasn't claiming otherwise. But, I'm not going to lie about a very happy childhood because somebody else thinks I was experiencing a bunch of trauma and feelings of violation that I wasn't experiencing.

I have never, ever implied that my experiences with spanking are true of other people - I've never implied that other people must feel that same way as me. Yet, I've been told in this thread and another one a while back that I'm not respecting other people's experiences when I say that _I_ wasn't violated and that _I_ didn't find spankings any worse than a stubbed toe. Why on earth would you, or anybody else, be offended because _I_ wasn't particularly bothered by spankings?

Storm Bride, I can practically see your eyes rolling as far back into your head as possible when I read your posts. That is what is offensive.

As I think about it more, I can understand where you're coming from. When I speak about my own experiences with being spanked, I am speaking about my father spanking me. Although my mother did spank me maybe twice, I don't usually think about those times because they really were insignificant to me. It didn't hurt, she wasn't angry, I wasn't scared, I didn't mind. I remember thinking that I should pretend to cry so she would feel like it had been effective. Like I should humor her.

My experience with my father was very different. So I can understand where you're coming from. It's the tone of your posts that make them offensive. Or maybe I'm just reading them wrong. Tone is so hard to gauge when you're online...


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

Unfortunately I had to vote # 2. I believe hitting is VERY wrong and said I would never hit my son, but a few times I have lost my temper and broke my promise. I feel awful about it and I'm trying very hard to change. I'm ashamed to even have admitted this, but you can't change what you don't acknowledge right?

I admire all of the mamas who voted #1, and wish GD came as naturally to me as it did to some of the mamas here.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Silvercrest - you seem to be on both sides.

No, spanking as "discipline" is NOT OK. Hitting another person is NOT OK. Especially one who can't fight back.
Not OK. For any reason. Ever.

Did I say anywhere in my post that it was Okay?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Silvercrest79* 
Did I say anywhere in my post that it was Okay?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















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You DID say there was a differnece between beating & spanking. I disagree.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
You DID say there was a differnece between beating & spanking. I disagree.

BEATING causes physical harm like broken bones. Spanking does NOT break bones. So yes, there is a difference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Alot of spankers use this. It's wrong. People have put their kids in the hospital for spankings that got out of control. Beating is hitting, spanking is hitting - HITTING IS NEVER OK!


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Alot of spankers use this. It's wrong. People have put their kids in the hospital for spankings that got out of control. Beating is hitting, spanking is hitting - HITTING IS NEVER OK!

Not a single post that I have read said hitting was okay. I guess I don't see your point.

I will digress... alas you are perfect.








~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeBe123* 
I'm shocked by the number of votes for - spanking is sometimes an acceptable form of discipline!

I wouldn't have expected from this board.

I know I can't believe it either!







:

if it's asasault/battery for an adult to hit another adult why not for the adult that hits a kid? I can't see anything of value it is teaching. and I also can't wait until spanking is veiwed as a crime..I know, I know, wishful thinking but NO ONE deserves to be hit! NO ONE and not especially a CHILD!


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## rharr! (Nov 9, 2005)

I picked number two as well







:
It has been two years and I still feel so ashamed and sad. When Dd is older, I will tell her about it, and appologise.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Silvercrest79* 
Not a single post that I have read said hitting was okay. I guess I don't see your point.

I will digress... alas you are perfect.








~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alison- )_( Momma to 3







: A- 9/00, K- 8/03, R- 3/06 (UR/HIE).





















.







:







:







:

Get a grip.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon* 
I know I can't believe it either!







:

if it's asasault/battery for an adult to hit another adult why not for the adult that hits a kid? I can't see anything of value it is teaching. and I also can't wait until spanking is veiwed as a crime..I know, I know, wishful thinking but NO ONE deserves to be hit! NO ONE and not especially a CHILD!


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## maminatural (Nov 3, 2006)

Marie, you may not spank or ever have spanked your kids and I salute you for that... in all sincerity. I wish I hadn't spanked my child ever...but you're sure good at passing judgement and instead of shedding some enlightenment on those of us who weren't privileged to be brought up in "spank free homes and yet be well disciplined" you turn people away and don't provide an opportunity to truly argue in an enlightened manner. That is my opinion. It just seems to me that you have your own anger issues to deal with... at least from the way you express yourself in your posts... I understand your position, I can appreciate how the ideal thing is NOT to spank or hit any child ever and find other ways to deal with a child who needs direction. But instead of providing your opinions you tend to accuse and put down instead of inform and educate.

Spanking out of control is beating... not spanking.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maminatural* 
Marie, you may not spank or ever have spanked your kids and I salute you for that... in all sincerity. I wish I hadn't spanked my child ever...but you're sure good at passing judgement and instead of shedding some enlightenment on those of us who weren't privileged to be brought up in "spank free homes and yet be well disciplined" you turn people away and don't provide an opportunity to truly argue in an enlightened manner. That is my opinion. It just seems to me that you have your own anger issues to deal with... at least from the way you express yourself in your posts... I understand your position, I can appreciate how the ideal thing is NOT to spank or hit any child ever and find other ways to deal with a child who needs direction. But instead of providing your opinions you tend to accuse and put down instead of inform and educate.

Spanking out of control is beating... not spanking.


Are you kidding me? Have you read all my posts in this thread? I WAS spanked & I did, once, spank my son! I am not putting anyone down...I am simply confused as to how people can think putting their hands on another human to discipline is acceptable!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maminatural* 

Spanking out of control is beating... not spanking.

It's ALL hitting.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

I voted "no", but I have grabbed my ds's arm twice in anger and hurt him. I still feel awful about it.


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Of course hitting is not ok. But the point some of us wish to make is that people f*** up, and that's ok too. T. Berry Brazelton answers the question, "Is spanking ever OK?" with, "Probably not, but we all do it." Obviously he doesn't mean literally all of us. But everyone snaps sometime, and lashes out, and does something they wouldn't ordinarily agree with, and that *ought* to keep us more compassionate and human and kind to one another, instead of making us *more* divisive and critical.

Get off your high horses, everyone. If it's not spanking, you're doing something wrong, believe me, whether it's spoiling, being too strict, shouting, never shouting, etc. Your kids will definitely think to themselves, "when I'm a parent I'll never do xyz."









In 1996 Mothering published a letter I wrote about how anyone who spanked was indeed abusive. I am awfully sorry I said that now.







Not because I've hit, but because I realize now how incredibly offensive and hurtful that was. I've also realized that the kids I most admire, the kind where you say, "gosh, how do I get to be *that* family?" are all cesarean-born, bottle-fed, public-schooled, occasionally spanked and fed artificially colored food. And they're growing into fine adults who seek excellent careers, had wonderful adolescent transitions with plenty of mild rebellion, industrial music and mohawks, and are loving and compassionate citizens. While I have done things very differently, I have to accept that my way isn't always the best way for everyone else, and that we all need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. I *can't* compare my friends' kids who got an occasional thump on the tushie through a diaper to the child in our local ER with the brand of a clothes iron on her arm. We *must* accept that there are shades of grey. So I am hoist with my own petard- BOOM.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:

I do know of parents that on ocassion will use a spanking and it does work for them because they're not angry when they do it
First reaction to this. Do you mean they are never angry when they spank... or most of the time? What about when they are angry? How would that work?

Second reaction.... the fact that a parent can be calm and collected and not angry while purposefully hurting a child is really quite disturbing and scary if you think about it.

What message does it send?

Jessica


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## maminatural (Nov 3, 2006)

_the fact that a parent can be calm and collected and not angry while purposefully hurting a child is really quite disturbing and scary if you think about it._

Jessica, can't argue with you there... I guess in the end what I mean is I can't really judge them for having their own way to deal with discipline, especially when many of my own peers have done just fine regardless of their spankings growing up... BUT, LizD put it best in her last post!


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## Dinosaur_Mommy (Nov 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizD* 
While I have done things very differently, I have to accept that my way isn't always the best way for everyone else, and that we all need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Wow, Liz! You are so cool! Thanks for the most rational thing I had heard on MDC since joining earlier this month. After being flamed for vaxing my kids, called an "unattached" mom for giving DS a paci, and generally being made to feel guilty for not living up to the standard here, I finally realize that a lot of the other mamas here aren't "Perfect" either.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizD* 
I *can't* compare my friends' kids who got an occasional thump on the tushie through a diaper

I have to tell you, respectfully, that cutesying up hitting in this way is very disturbing. Your friends aren't "thumping" or "popping" or "bopping" or "tapping" their kid's "tushies," "bottoms," etc; they're striking their babies on their buttocks. I don't care if they have a diaper on or not - that seems to be another defense of hitting children - "she has a diaper on!" So what? I don't understand what part of "don't hit babies" is somehow mitigated by what they're wearing (it hurts LESS - so that means it hurts SOME - you're [general you] willing to cause some pain to your child at all? Wow, I'm not) or by changing the words to something more palatable.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizD* 
While I have done things very differently, I have to accept that my way isn't always the best way for everyone else, and that we all need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Why? When does it become okay to worry about what someone else is doing? I believe that we should be forgiving of and compassionate about one another's flaws, but this "keep your nose out of everyone's business" when it comes to *hitting children* - why should that be the party line?

Children don't deserve to be hit, even if it's just an occasional "thumping on the padded tushie," or whatever. It should be a concern for everyone when they are. Does that mean that they should be taken from their homes or that parents should be tossed in the bin for it? Of course not. But the mindset that it's okay to hit the children who are vulnerable and in our care has to change. The only way that happens is for everyone to worry about it.

Yes, we all screw up. We could all do things better. The problem is that there are way too many people who think that hitting children is fine and dandy. You don't change that by turning a blind eye.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
I have to tell you, respectfully, that cutesying up hitting in this way is very disturbing. Your friends aren't "thumping" or "popping" or "bopping" or "tapping" their kid's "tushies," "bottoms," etc; they're striking their babies on their buttocks. I don't care if they have a diaper on or not - that seems to be another defense of hitting children - "she has a diaper on!" So what? I don't understand what part of "don't hit babies" is somehow mitigated by what they're wearing (it hurts LESS - so that means it hurts SOME - you're [general you] willing to cause some pain to your child at all? Wow, I'm not) or by changing the words to something more palatable.

There's so much arguing over language on this thread/board. I think focusing on that trivalizes the conversation. I knew what she meant when she said "thump". You have to hit to cause a thump, so obviously the child was hit. I'm willing to bet everyone on here is capable of understanding that.









~Nay


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AntoninBeGonin* 
There's so much arguing over language on this thread/board. I think focusing on that trivalizes the conversation. I knew what she meant when she said "thump". You have to hit to cause a thump, so obviously the child was hit. I'm willing to bet everyone on here is capable of understanding that.









~Nay

My point wasn't in clarifying what happened. My point is that by using "cute" terms to describe violence, you trivialize what is happening.


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## antannie (Jul 5, 2006)

hmmmm. 3 times. Once I was barely an adult and I was babysitting and the kid ran into traffic and I grabbed her by her jacket hood and yelled and slapped her all at the same time and then we both cried.

Once when my niece put the dogs in danger I smacked her bum and then I felt so bad. Even worse when I discovered that she didn't disobey, she didn't hear because of a ranging ear infection and hearing loss. I swore it would never happen again but when she was a teenager (or rather her evil twin was) and was living with me with no help financial or otherwise from her parents, while she was screaming in my face I slapped her. And yes I did feel terrible and called the Help Line for Children and told them I needed help and they were totally unhelpful. Treated me very badly and that is not what I needed. I told them I was wrong when I called and needed some help to cope and they offered me NOTHING. but the next day I got her and I into counselling. It took her a long time to forgive me.

I didn't believe in corporal punishement of any sort but that is how I was raised. Bare bum, wooden spoon, real over the knee spankings. I think it is not good enough to just want to parent differently than your parents, you need to learn how to replace the behaviour because if you don't then you are at risk to parent like they do when under high stress. I got counselling and am very resolved about my childhood. I do believe my parents did what they *thought* was the best thing and it was certainly considered normal then. The school spanked and gave the strap too!

Now I am a confident parent. My 12 year old hormonely charged daughter is very challenging at times and I know I would,will NEVER hurt her.


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
My point wasn't in clarifying what happened. My point is that by using "cute" terms to describe violence, you trivialize what is happening.

Oh, yes, trivializing hitting. That's _exactly_ what I meant.







: This is the very reason thoughtful discussion grows impossible. Rather than become so intolerant we drive people away from a more gentle philosophy altogether, it's exactly people who are drawn to attachment parenting who *should* be discussing this. Just the same way LLL will tell a mother who calls the best way to wean her baby, if that's what she wants or needs to do. The LLL leader would prefer the woman not wean, of course, but she's not supposed to turn her away. She's supposed to provide information on the best way to do it for the child's age. I realize there is no "best way" to hit a child, but since so many people confess to doing it, even while they are damning others who do so, there should be a place for discussion and support. As well as acceptance that we are all doing our best. And some kids whose parents do everything "wrong" will turn out "better" than ours.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I need to temporarily close this thread to new posts so we can review the responses to ensure the Forum Guidelines are being upheld. If you're considering responding when the thread is opened back up, please take a moment to review the Forum Guidelines:

Quote:

Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children.



_Quote:_

Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger- as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara

*Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children. Personal preferences for and encouragement of use of physical punishment are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.*

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about Gentle Discipline.
And in the mean time, if anyone sees a post that looks or feels "off" please report it to either me or heartmama---your help in maintaining the forum's integrity and upholding MDC's User Agreement is appreciated very much.


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