# Why do they sell seat belt positioners? Are they legal? Are they safe?



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

OK, in my endless quest for a booster for ds that does not have those stupid armrests that keep him from buckling his own belt, I saw this:

http://www.drivingcomfort.com/index..../2047/sc/23782

WTF? Is that legal? Is it safe? He's over 50 lbs, so it might solve my problem. (Problem being that the top portion of the seatbelt is still not in what I would consider an ideal position when he doesn't use a booster seat.) But... isn't this just a bit too easy, convenient and cheap to be a safe solution (I'm joking, but only partly.)

Input?


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## Amatullah0 (Apr 7, 2009)

probably not... they also sell this


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

That Mighty-Tite thing reminds me, what ARE parents with disabilities supposed to do about maintaining carseat installation and strapping their children in tightly enough? It's very physical work, has to be done at least twice a day for a lot of children, and I'm always worn out and sore afterwards. Are there approved adaptive devices?


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

In states where you are required by law to keep your child in an approved child restraint, they are not legal, because they are a novelty item, not an DOT approved children restraint system.

Regardless of your state's laws, they are not safe and may be deadly. All they do is make the belt comfortable. In an accident, they force the lap belt up off the hips onto the abdomen, causing serious injuries to the organs underneath.

These should never, ever, ever for any reason, be used by a passenger in a car, of any age.

To answer your concern about boosters, there are currently no boosters being manufactured that do not have arm rests. However, that shouldn't be an issue. A child can be taught to strap the belt correctly, even with arm rests in the way.

With regards to a caregiver with physical disabilities, I generally recommend that the person 'play' with a wide variety of child restraints to find one that is relatively easy for that person to use. In addition, I recommend having a seat for every vehicle the child will ride in, rather than be faced with the difficulty of installing and uninstalling.

If the parent/caregiver is so profoundly disabled that they cannot operate any child restraint, the parent needs to have an assistant who can help put the child in the seat.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"These should never, ever, ever for any reason, be used by a passenger in a car, of any age."

I figured.









There's no way in Hades that ds is ever going to be able to wedge his hand down to buckle his belt under the booster armrests in our existing car (I can barely do it myself, and I'm stronger and have a better angle). He's wedged up right next to his sister's Radian. That minivan is looking better and better...


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 

With regards to a caregiver with physical disabilities, I generally recommend that the person 'play' with a wide variety of child restraints to find one that is relatively easy for that person to use. In addition, I recommend having a seat for every vehicle the child will ride in, rather than be faced with the difficulty of installing and uninstalling.

If the parent/caregiver is so profoundly disabled that they cannot operate any child restraint, the parent needs to have an assistant who can help put the child in the seat.

Thanks, I always wondered about that. I can operate any child restraint properly-- it's just uncomfortable, but totally do-able for me-- but I recently had a paper on universal design and adaptive equipment published. So I started thinking about how there are adaptive devices for so many things, but I haven't seen much (if anything) adaptive for carseat installation and belting-in that is legal. I especially am thinking about how the seatbelt or LATCH belt needs to be re-tightened periodically, and how the harness has to be tightened hard every time; both of those motions require a particular combination of fine-and gross-motor strength (the grip-and-pull-supertight thing while pushing down on something heavy), that is not necessary for any other type of child care that I've noticed. (I noticed all this when we moved to a different city and went from car-lite to frequent car users.) So I could envision a scenario where a caregiver could manage every other aspect of child care independently, but would need to call over an aide to help strap the child in twice a day to go to and from daycare, for example-- it seems inefficient to me.

There's a marketing niche out there, for some good APPROVED devices....

Edited to add: I wonder how much of the improper installation/ strapping-in, out there, is due to the physical difficulty of doing it "right." LATCH, for example, is easy to understand but still requires rather a lot of brute strength; a lot of grandparents are caregivers for at least part of the week, and likely to have less strength and more arthritis; and so on.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I think DS1's carseat (evenflo triumph) would be pretty easy for a disabled person to tighten correctly - rather than pushing down and pulling on a strap, you just turn a knob on the side of the seat. Its actually one of my favorite things about it - SO easy to get good & tight. And to loosen you just push on a lever and pull the straps. But otherwise, yeah, most carseats are definetly a major PITA to get a child safely & correctly in. Which is probably why there are estimates that 75% of carseats are used incorrectly.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I also think the Evenflo seats with the knob takes quite a bit of the physical force out of tightening and loosening harnesses









As for 'adaptive technologies', hmmm. I would be all for ANYTHING that would allow installation to be easier, and not just for the physically challenged. Most parents make serious errors installing their seats.

Interestingly enough, in Europe a different kind of LATCH system is common...rigid LATCH. Rather than flexible webbing that needs to be tightened, you push the LATCH connecters, which are secured by strong metal to the frame, against the anchors, and CLICK the seat is in.

These are actually safer than typical north american webbing LATCH, but of course political lobbying got the webbing approved here, so that auto manufacturers wouldn't be required to standardize anchor angle and position









For a parent who found it impossible to secure a seat with a seatbelt or American LATCH, I suppose they could consider importing a rigid LATCH European child restraint, but it would be at significant cost, unfortunately, and technically not legal to use here.


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