# botched circ statistics?



## KoalaMommy (Apr 7, 2004)

Does anyone have statistics on what percentage of circs are botched and need fixing?

I just found out I'm having a boy and DH is pro-circ. I particularly want this piece of information, I know most of the other stuff already.


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

The circumcision revision rate is higher than the number of men/boys that end up cut later in life.

Here is a site that GRAPHICALLY shows botched jobs:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html

A list of complications with links:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

Then there is this further down the page:

Quote:

"The estimated 1% to 3% incidence of complications after newborn circumcision covers only the immediate postoperative period prior to the infant's discharge from the hospital. The reported risks are hemorrhage in 1%, infection - occasionally leading to sepsis - in 0.5%, meat[iti]s and meatal stenosis, u[r]ethrocutaneous fistula, adhesions between the glans and remaining prepuce, secondary phimosis, and cosmetically unsatisfactory results. The rate of subsequent repeat surgery to correct adhesions of the glans, meatal stenosis, fistula, and phimosis with buried penis is unknown, but our practice at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia includes about two such cases per month. While this is not a large percentage of the total number of circumcisions preformed, it is a significant number of children undergoing surgery for the complication of this operation. "
- Schwartz, et al. "Pediatric Primary Care: A Problem-solving Approach" pp 861-862.
(At 1.25 million circumcisions of newborns in the US per year, a 0.5% infection rate amounts to 6000 cases per year, and a 4% overall rate of complications requiring treatment represents 48,000 patients experiencing avoidable morbidity.)


----------



## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

The Canadian Pediatric Society estimates a 1% need for repeat surgery in circumcised boys, whether from botches, complications, or cosmetic revisions.
http://www.cps.ca/caringforkids/preg...rcumcision.htm

Here's the thing on botched circs: No one really knows how common they are because no one's keeping statistics. That's right - there is no official system in the US for collecting data on advserse events from circumcision. They do not really know how many boys die as a result of having been circumcised, how many lose all or part of their penis, how many need reconstructive surgery, etc.

Here is a page on risks and complications from a circumcision information site in Australia. Geared toward Australia, it nonetheless gives a good discussion on the risks and how they are underreported.
http://www.circinfo.org/account.html

Hope this helps. Gillian


----------



## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

Also there are complications as a result of circ that don't show up until older. Like Meatal Stenosis, it is unheard of in intact males.


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

and...how many men are going to report that sex hurts? That they have hair on the shaft of their penis during an erection? That their scar is hideous? That they have skin bridges?

How many men are too embarrassed to report this? How many think these things are normal?

Most complications and deaths are chalked up to something else...or it happens as an adult rather than immediately after the surgery? What about the baby that dies 3 weeks later from MRSA? I bet his death is recorded as a death from MRSA, not a death from circumcision..


----------



## KoalaMommy (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
and...how many men are going to report that sex hurts? That they have hair on the shaft of their penis during an erection? That their scar is hideous? That they have skin bridges?

Wait, hair on the shaft is related to circ? Really? Tell me more, because DH has it and it causes him major irritation if we dtd a few days in a row.


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KoalaMommy* 
Wait, hair on the shaft is related to circ? Really? Tell me more, because DH has it and it causes him major irritation if we dtd a few days in a row.

It's from a too tight circ that when erect pulls scrotal hair up onto the shaft. It has to get the skin from somewhere









See...most men don't even know that the problems that they are having are complications...why would they report them and who would they report them too....who would even keep track of what was reported. Can't you just see all the urologists at their yearly conference getting a spread sheet together of all the complications that were reported to them in the past year...


----------



## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
It's from a too tight circ that when erect pulls scrotal hair up onto the shaft. It has to get the skin from somewhere









See...most men don't even know that the problems that they are having are complications...


----------



## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

Many circumcised men fail to recognize their own circumcision damage and assume that peculiar things about their penis are 'normal' or 'a birth defect.'
How to Identify Circumcision Damage in the Adult Male
WARNING Pictures Of Adult Penii http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm


----------



## KoalaMommy (Apr 7, 2004)

So I informed DH last night that his circ was not done properly and that his discomfort from days of dtd in a row was the result. He has agreed to research circ now









I'm thinking I'm going to win this one by default. Because _I'm_ not making the appointment to do it and he's scheduled exactly 0 dr's appointments in 5 years and 2 children. He was already on board with no hospital circ...


----------



## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

Here is what a Pediatric Urologist who is stuch repairing Botched RICs had to say recently:

Neonatal circmcision is totally unnecessary, and there is no current role for preventative or prophylactic neonatal circumcision.

Unfortunately, 70-80% of neonatal circumcisions are performed by obstetricians, who can neither manage their complications (2-5% incidence) nor obtain proper informed consent (defined as outlining risks and benefits of a procedure, as well as alternatives-including nothing) for neonatal circumcision. Currently, the American College of OB-GYN (ACOG) have no paramenters for training (learning and performing neonatal circumcision, managing complications)of residents, who then go out and continue this practice.

In my practice, as a pediatric urologist, I manage the complications of neonatal circumcision. For example, in a two year period, I was referred >275 newborns and toddlers with complications of neonatal circumcision. None of these were 'revisions' because of appearance, which I do not do. 45% required corrective surgery (minor as well as major, especially for amputative injury), whereupon some could be treated locally without surgery.

Complications of this unnecessary procedure are often not reported, but of 300 pediatric urologists in this country who have practices similar to mine...well, one can do the math, to understand the scope of this problem...let alone, to understand the adverse cost-benefit aspect of complications (>$750,000) in this unfortunate group of infants and young children.
Fortunately, neonatal circumcision is on the decline as parents become educated...but the complications still continue.

Until the time that the USA falls in step with the rest of the planet who does not submit newborns to neonatal circumcision, ACOG should assure that the training of obstetricians to perform this procedure is adequate, particularly in avoiding and managing complications of a procedure that is unnecessary, and that obstetricians learn to obtain proper informed consent from parents whohave no idea of the problems that can ensue.

M.David Gibbons, MD
Associate Professor, Pediatric Urology, Georgetown University School of Medicine and George Washington School of Medicine.
Attending Pediatric Urologist, Childrens National Medical Center, Washington, DC.
Director, Pediatric Urology, Georgetown University Hospital,
Washington, DC.
Head, Pediatric Urology, Inova Fairfax Hospital For Children, Falls Church, Virginia.
2/5/2009 9:07 AM CST

Posted at Men's Health Magazine on The Debate Over Circumcision: Should All Males Be Circumcised? in the comments section (Http://www.menshealth.com/)


----------



## lacysmommy (Nov 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
The Canadian Pediatric Society estimates a 1% need for repeat surgery in circumcised boys, whether from botches, complications, or cosmetic revisions.
http://www.cps.ca/caringforkids/preg...rcumcision.htm


My DH has ALWAYS been pro-circ. I was hoping for another girl so I could avoid this topic yet again (I already have two girls). Alas, I am having a boy. I am thrilled about it, yet I was dreading the circ convo with DH because of his stance in the past, and the inability that we have had to come to any sort of resolution.

Since I knew it was serious this time, I made a deal with my DH. Do research on pro-intactness and I'll do research on pro-circ, then we can have a conversation. His main concern and reason for circing was "I've never met anyone with a problem with their circumcision, but I've met lots of guys with problems with their foreskins." I thought that was valid, so I asked for some help and was given the link in the quote above. I showed the link to DH, which clearly shows the numbers of boys with problems with their circumcisions (not going into meatal stenosis and other issues that aren't immediately known) versus boys who will need a circumcision later in life due to problems with their foreskins.

His other concern was, when he was on the swim team, some of the intact guys got teased about their foreskins. Fortunately, we live in an area with a low circ rate, so I told him that it wouldn't be a problem for our son, and if it was, what were other guys doing looking at his penis anyway? He could turn the teasing right back around on them if he wished.

The other day, a woman was over at our home talking about how she works with elderly men, and how they are all intact, and how that is weird to her because men in her family are circumcised, period. My jaw about hit the floor when DH said, "Well, they're finding out that circumcision causes more problems than it prevents, so most boys in our county aren't being circumcised anymore."

So. I HIGHLY recommend that link. It's a great one because it is from a pediatric society, and therefore holds more clout than just something found somewhere on the internet. From being staunchly pro-circ a month or two ago to explaining why circumcisions aren't happening as often anymore is a HUGE turnaround for my DH. And it means that my son will be intact and nobody will be resentful of that decision.


----------



## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

I like using the canadian link too b/c I think people are willing to accept it better than a anti-circ site. I wish the US had a similar site just for additional ammo


----------



## sam1980 (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't know stats, but I know that IRL I have had a nephew, my cousin's son, and a friend's son have botched jobs or complications. Two of the three required surgery to correct. Considering I live in a very small community and all three had different docs, it leads me to believe that it is fairly common. My nephew's botched circ nearly 10 years ago was the first thing that got me thinking anti-circ for any sons of mine.


----------



## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
The Canadian Pediatric Society estimates a 1% need for repeat surgery in circumcised boys, whether from botches, complications, or cosmetic revisions.
http://www.cps.ca/caringforkids/preg...rcumcision.htm

My only issue with this article is the bullet that says 10 intact boys out of 1000 will "need" to be circumcised because of phimosis or other medical conditions. Perhaps all 10 of these boys first had less invasive treatment that proved to be ineffective, but 1% seemed a pretty high number to me. Certainly the incidence of medically necessary circumcision in Europe and Scandanavia is much lower. Practically all cases of phimisis can be cured with steroid cream, or a dorsal slit - NOT circumcision.


----------

