# Overcoming breast engorgement on Days 2, 3, 4, ...



## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

On December 31st, I had a beautiful homebirth / waterbirth. I did tear some so I am supposed to stay in bed to help the stitches heal.

My breasts are engorged. I called a La Leache League Leader and was advised to use cabbage leaves and pump. I pumped one ounce the first try and my DD#2 still couldn't latch on the more affected side, the left breast, for which the nipple is sore, almost bleeding. [I had the same problem with DD#1.]

I pumped four ounces this morning and was able to latch her for the next few feedings. I am getting engorged again, and she's been sleeping for more than 2 hours. I don't want to wake her, I am so sleepy. I got to shower and eat and drink and do some Internet searches on engorgement.

I found:
New Perspectives on Engorgement
by Mary Kay Smith, IBCLC
Romeoville, Illinois, USA
From: LEAVEN, Vol. 35 No. 6, December 1999-January 2000, pp. 134-36

at
http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleade...Jan00p134.html

I tried cabbage leaves, and I am putting vitamin E oil on my nipples to keep them moist and heal the wounds.

Nursing did help, and I think I will have to pump again to facilitate latching.

I have too much milk. I worry that the problem will continue. My breasts are like regulation-sized footballs. I am trying to massage them, but they are too hard.

Nursing is so very painful: I just sob and cry. I was in pain for 3 months with my DD#1 trying to nurse, and established nursing and nursed for 19 months. I am really wary of people who claim that nursing shouldn't hurt unless you are doing something wrong.

Yes, I have normal nipples: no inversions. Yes, I do have a correct latch: her mouth is over the areola too, not just the nipple.

I have also tried to support my breast as I nurse, which helps but makes it hard to catch the milk dripping from the other breast (at a rate of one drop per suck, which soaks any cloth that I position under me and DD2's clothes.)

I have had a headache all day so I think that I may be running a small fever. I am so achy from the birth.

*I would like to hear others' experiences in overcoming engorgement.*

-- Caitlin, [email protected]


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Oh, sweetie, you sound so tired and uncomfortable!







Congratulations on your home/waterbirth!

I would watch very carefully for mastitis - with the engorgement and the fever it sounds like you're a prime candidate.

Have you read through the pages at Kellymom for advice?

Engorgement

Mastitis/plugged ducts (just in case)

Overactive letdown (see links at bottom on oversupply)

Since you have broken skin, definitely watch out for yeast. Vit. E/olive oil is a better choice than Lansinoh, which I would avoid at this point.

You can take some Motrin to help the headache/fever/general aches and pains.

Have you tried standing in a hot shower or soaking your breasts in a sinkful of hot water? That might make them feel a little better...

I hope you get some relief soon.


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## vipassanagal (Aug 28, 2003)

The soaking in the sink worked for me.

2 othe things really helped:

- before nursing, I put warm socks filled with rice on my breasts. It helped with engorgement and got the milk flowing. The latch was easier. I'm not sure of the mechanics. All I know is it worked. I used an old tube sock. Filled it with rice. Put it in the microwave. Then, I them in my bra until time to nurse

- after nursing, I applied a cold bag of frozen peas. Just put it into my bra.

Both these tips came from an amazing lactation consultant we hired. She also told me not to pump, but to hand express a tiny bit of milk. Just enough for relief. It's the supply and demand thing. And, she said the pump would up my supply. I definetly didn't want that.

And, she said to nurse very frequently. So, I went to bed with my baby and had him nurse often.

It hurts,and it will ease soon!!!!


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## Ashley (Dec 10, 2003)

I totally feel for you this happened to me too!

Actually a month after his birth I had a very high temp... and had body aches after his birth. I had a 4th degree episiotomy and that didn't hurt near as much as the body aches and headaches. I guess what I have heard as far as your milk supply (I had tons!) was to not stimulate the milk flow at all. Anytime you do that it tells your body to make more. I agree to rotate the warm and cool treatments.

Now this is not usually suggested but we used the nipple sheild for around 5 months. Although it was for a different reason. But I think if your nipples crack and bleed it can be a great comfort. (if your baby will take to it)

Congrats on your new baby, btw! You are doing a great job, just remember it does get easier!!! (oh what we momma's do for our babies!! ((HUGS!)) )


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

DD2 is sleeping long stretches 2-3 hours or more. I would like to nurse more frequently, but she is sleeping!

Meanwhile, I tend to agree that pumping is a bad idea (bc it will increase supply), but I'm doing it anyway. I keep becoming engorged again.

I am favoring my right breast because the nipple is less tender. So, I nursed on it all night last night, favored it slightly today, and will nurse on it again all night tonight.

After pumping 4 ounces out of my left breast with the sore/bleedy nipple, I was able to get DD2 to latch and nurse. It was very painful in the beginning... I was afraid to latch her at all, then the sucking hurts moderately.

I pumped my left breast twice and latched her on it a few times. The engorgement returns pretty fast.

My ducts, especially on the left breast, are swollen and painful.

I have tried hot compresses (with washclothes that I squeeze the hot water out of). These compresses help loosen the ducts and bring comfort, but I'm still in enough pain that I am afraid to massage my breasts deeply.

I also did the cabbage leaves again today.

I am looking for the rice sock... I used to have one.

Thanks for the advice and sympathy... Any more? (My family is around, but they seem busy with their own projects... nobody wants to get into the breast business.. makes me feel a little lonely, though I am happy that the laundry is done... I haven't had to wash the cloth diapers in days. )

-- Caitlin, [email protected]


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## Ashley (Dec 10, 2003)

I don't think I know anymore tricks... the only thing is that your probably going to hurt yourself in the long run by pumping so often. I know it hurts so bad, but the best thing to do is have warmth and massage your breast. It doesn't get overstimulated, but it does relase the extra milk. Your body is telling your breasts to make more milk because the demand is high.

I feel so bad for your poor nipples, I never had anything like that.









I hope someone comes on here with a miracle solution.


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## Ashley (Dec 10, 2003)

Whoops, it sent twice... so editing it!


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## vipassanagal (Aug 28, 2003)

how are the boobies?

to wake a sleepy baby, you can slowly undress them. It worked for me. I ended up just keeping my ds in a warm blanket and undressing him to wake. I only had to do this a few times. he really ate all the time, so we may be talking about 2 different types of babies.

just a thought....can you have someone look at your dd's latch. it might help. Do you have acdess to another nursing mom? i only suggest this b/c it helped me. I had no idea that my ds was having problems.

And, do the rice sock. have someone make it up for you. I made 2 and became VERY attached to them. What a sight I was with two rice bags on top of my engrged breasts!


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

The links at Kellymom are really good. I'll go reread them.

I'm torn between the hot compresses and the cold compresses. The cold feels good, but I don't really know what effect its having. The hot really seems to loosen the milk ducts.

I like the idea of the rice socks for the heat... The washclothes get cold fast and I think the rice socks would hold heat longer and be well, less wet!

I can't remember how I dealt with engorgement with DD1. I didn't pump at all then.

Now that I've pumped, I think it is definitely a mistake. It feels good after pumping, but I just become engorged again.

The engorgement feeling is one of "cramping" at the base of the milk ducts. On the right breast, it is mild to moderate. On the left breast, it is moderate to severe... severe as in ... it hurts to move my left arm.

[I love MDC... it really feels great to know that yall are "listening" to me.]

My midwife is coming over tomorrow ("today") so I'll have her check my breasts. She gave me a fabulous breast massage on Day 2 after the birth. Her assistant checked my latch on Day 4.

-- Caitlin


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I read that parsley and sage teas help to reduce milk flow for when you are weaning. I'm not weaning though, so I don't want to spoil the milk or make the milk taste bad to DD2. How would I prepare it?

-- Caitlin


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## Ashley (Dec 10, 2003)

That's weird about the parsley and sage, I never heard of that! I know that the cabbage leaves are used for women who are weaning too.

Have you tried to take like two cabbage leaves and freeze them? That can be your cold, and it will still have the effects of the cabbage.

I would just alternate between hot and cold. If cold feels good, then do that when it's hurting the most.

Hopefully your midwife will have lots of insight and give you another massage!!


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I'm trying it now. It's my best hope.

I read a bunch more about engorgement.

VENT: It is very irritating to be told to "empty" the breast. I BF'd DD#1 for 19 months and I never came anywhere close to "emptying" a breast.

VENT: I'm really miserable. I stoppped pumping, and I'm engorged and heading for big trouble again (miserably, plugged ducts, mastitis, abscess, etc). The upshot of pumping was that at least I wasn't sick.

I am also trying a homeopathic remedy for oversupply. It is Phytolacca. The store was out of the appropriate strength (6C, i think), and I bought 30C instead. I'm not sure if it is working. It was recommended in the book Breastfeeding Naturally (by Lothrop, 1999, I think).

I am also trying to repeat the "positive affirmations" as per Louise Hay's Heal Your Body. This comes from the philsophy of the Science of the Mind ("mind over matter" ideology), which I find somewhat effective, if arrogant.

I'm really unhappy about my breasts. Fortunately, DD#2 is beautiful.

She sleeps a lot. My resolution today was to nurse every 1-2 hours, and I found that impossible. She sleeps, and she won't wake up to nurse: can't get her to latch.

My next resolution is .. instead of trying to nurse on both breasts at every feeding .. to instead give only one breast per 3 hour period .. .to try to teach the breast not to overproduce.

*Why won't my breasts respond to the oversupply on their own?*

I have been engorged and having breast problems since January 1st or 2nd and today is January 7th.

-- Caitlin, [email protected]


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

Strong milk ejection reflex. I experience a painful tingling or stinging sensation during breast-feeding._ I often spray milk both between feedings and during feedings. I soak a dozen towels every day.

Nipple blanching (also called vasospasm). The nipples turn white during and often in between breast-feeding.

Hard, warm, throbbing, or slightly lumps breasts

A slight increase in body temperature (around 100 degrees Fahrenheit or 37.78 degrees Celsius)

Slightly swollen axillary (underarm) lymph nodes

Breast pain during feeding.

Sore nipples.

DD2 calls - Caitlin


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Ouch ouch ouch.









Did the visit from your midwife help any?

Did any of the links from Kellymom on how to regulate oversupply help any? Have you stopped pumping? If you do pump to relieve engorgement, do it only the tiniest tiniest bit to take the pressure off, otherwise as a previous poster said you're just stimulating more production.

You can definitely take Motrin for your discomfort, and it sounds like you need it, unless you're opposed to it...but it is safe for nursing, only minute quantities pass through to the milk.

You may have seen these already but here are some more relevant pages from Kellymom:

Nipple blanching

Sleepy Babies. I second the idea of stripping baby down (and turn the heat down); sit her up with some baby situps, rub her back firmly, whatever it takes.

Also, have you thought about finding a board-certified lactation consultant? It really sounds like you could use some professional help to get things straightened out. If there's more than one in your neck of the woods I would interview them over the phone for experience dealing with your problems. You can find one here:

link to US regional registry

Hang in there. It will get better....it may take time.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

About compresses:

Hot ones open the ducts to let the milk flow out easily, even if breast tissue is swollen. Sometimes the tissue can get so swollen, the milk ducts are squeezed shut!

Cold ones such as a bag of peas, reduce swelling and inflammation. There isn't just milk in there, but oversupply of blood and lymph fluids. This will settle down gradually over the next few weeks. By 6 mos your prolactin levels dwindle to pre-pregnancy lvls. Oxytocin takes over the complete job of keeping lactation going.

So use warm compresses just before a feed, cold ones between feeds.

Warm compresses right after a feed should help with the blanching of the nipples too. I have used a crockpot full of washcloths as warm compresses, as wet warmth is more effective for all of this than dry.

About pumping/expressing:

Pump or express just to comfort. This is important. Hopefully it will not take 4 oz to give you comfort! But do not just try to tough it out. Find a happy medium.

About one sided nursing:

Yes, nurse on one side only for a period of time. 3 hours (no matter how often baby nurses in that time) is most common, but some moms have to go much longer. Some moms go 12 hours, one breast all day, the other all night. Experiment.

About cabbage leaves:

Keep a head of cabbage in the fridge. Put 2 leaves in your bra. When they warm up, change them.

Good luck! Call a LLL Leader and vent, cry, whatever! A friendly voice can do wonders for your morale.


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

Oops. Double post. Edited this message so it wouldn't repeat.


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

Recent actions (past day or so):

Stopped pumping. Pumping worked well as an immediate measure to empty the breasts and release pressure that was leading me toward plugged ducts and pain and mastitis.

Rice sock: Really works. Much easier than applying hot wash clothes or bathing. Rice sock doubles as a local heater for baby and for warming the bed (It's cold outside!)

Bathing my breasts in hot, hot water. Feels great, but only have the energy to do it once a day.

Echinacea tincture. I personally respond very well to echinacea angustifolia in tincture form. I had a low grade fever last night (100.6F), and I took a few doses of echniacea. My temperature has gone down, and I have less breat pain, though my ducts are still very full and sensitive. I'm less worried about getting infected.

Sage tea. My midwife and other resources recommend to just sip on one cup of sage tea throughout the day, but I've drunk 3 cups yesterday and another 3 today. I don't care for the flavor: it's rather medicinal. My engorgement *has* lessoned, and I'm not sure whether to attribute this to the tea. I feel that I am not responding to the tea, but I'm not sure.

Vit. E oil. I puncture a vitamin capsule and squeeze out a few drops as needed. I store the in-use capsule and a safety pin in a medicine bottle that I can move around and that DD1 can't open. ["Open it, Mommy!]

Phytolacca homeopathic remedy. I began taking this last night, and I think it is helping. I feel good about taking it, and though I can't be assure, I attribute my lessoned engorgement to this remedy. (FYI, the homeopathic remedy Bryonia is recommended as a complement to other approaches to treat mastitis. I read about these remedies in Breastfeeding Naturally by Lothrop.)

Tried more frequent nursing. Was unsuccessful. This girl just won't latch when she doesn't want to. I feel forced to wait for her demand. Changing her diaper and thus making her cold does seem to wake her up; then, she'll nurse. However, once awake, she stretches and makes poopy and peepee... so it makes more sense to let her awake on her schedule and do her business, then change her and nurse her. Otherwise, she does her business in the middle of the diaper change or just before feeding, which I don't feel good about.

Pschobabble. No seriously. I called up an old friend and talked through my feelings about my mother, who makes me feel stressed and anxious, though she is very helpful around the house, and afterwards I felt much better: less stressed and less hard. I believe that BFing is intensely psychological. Maybe my oversupply has something to do with my wanting to please my mother or live up to expectations or some other psychological explanation that I have yet to hit upon. I really don't know what it is exactly, but I intuit that there is a strong psychological explanation to my oversupply and engorgement.

Reactions:
Less engorgement, though it continues. Greater comfort, though my breasts still hurt.
Less sore nipples, though the initial latch is still painful, but less so.
Lowered temperature.
Greater emotional stability... less hopeless/frusterated feelings.
Continued dripping and spraying of milk.

Other notes:
I'm less afraid to latch my left ("owie") breast. The nipple is healing, but is still stressed.
DD2 doesn't feed for very long, and takes many breaks during a feeding, despite my encouragement that she stay awake (stroking her head, speaking to her).

-- Caitlin


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## Ashley (Dec 10, 2003)

Oh I remember those first few weeks oh too well...

I am so thrilled that your efforts seem to be working, everyday it will get better... just keep telling yourself that. You're doing a GREAT job momma!!!


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## Golden (Mar 15, 2002)

Oh mama! hang in there! I could have written your post almost 4 years ago when my ds was born! Everyone always said that "i should be grateful!" That statement sure was hard to appreciate at the time. I guess yes, I was producing more than enough for my baby and many women struggle to boost supply. For at least the first two weeks (maybe longer, it's all a blur), I sat on the couch with a bath towel on my lap, no bra and just dripped and dripped and dripped forever between feedings. The sore nipples were a beast so I was trying to keep them exposed to air - kind of hard with a freeflowing nipple









One thought I had, especially if you are on the verge of mastitis or yeast is to really just let them flow - on the couch with a huge towel, in the shower, in the tub, etc. I drew the line at while sleeping (hoping for a dry bed) and wore 3 pads at a time, changing all six every time he fed.

The other thing I wanted to say is that very quickly he became a one breast per feeding baby. It seemed to help with the abundance. My son also was full in 5-8 minutes, with intermittent pulling off, choking from the fire hydrant letdown. Efficient, it was, that's for sure. It didn't make for happy public feedings as he would pull off leaving a steady stream flowing. It all worked out though. Really, it did. In the end, I was grateful for the quick and abundant letdown. When I was away from ds and needed to pump, it took 5 or so minutes to get 4 oz. I also wasn't tied to the couch for hours a day nursing. Nursing at night was also quick. THAT, I was grateful for.

One more thought: you said you felt slightly less engorged today. As any mother will tell you who is trying to boost her milk production, it doesn't happen over night. The same applies to oversupply and tapering down. It will take a while to adjust itself.

Hang in there mama! Your body will figure out what it needs to do. Keep those towels, burp clothes, receiving blankets, etc, nearby, drink TONS of water and take care of yourself!

Golden


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I was feeling so much better. This really took me by surprise.

I slept a lot yesterday (Saturday). Today, I was awake from 9 am to 4 p.m. I played with my 2 year old (DD2) and dressed her. My parents came over at noon with lunch and took DD2 to the park so I could be alone with DD1. At "teatime", I suddently had the chills , and then I went to bed and woke up with a fever of 102F!

Tonight, I tried nursing from 8 p.m. to 11: 30 p.m. DD2 would not nurse and fall asleep. She was very frusterated, waving her arms and kicking. She seemed to follow the problems associated with foreceful let-down reflex, as per the kellymom website. I was so tired -- my head was throbbing (still is) and she couldn't sleep.

I am still taking phytolacca homeopathic. My engorgement subsided but I had some places on my breasts that were painful. I suppose that they became infected.

I am taking Echinacea/Goldenseal tincture. 40 drops every hour for the first 3 hours, then every three hours when i nurse.

I know I am supposed to take hot showers for the plugged ducts, but I am so tired that I will just go back to bed, though I am in pain.

I know what to do for the mastitis in this moment, but I do't know how to solved the problems of forceful let-down and oversupply.

-- Caitlin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
*Forceful Let-down Reflex*
* Gag, choke, strangle, gulp, gasp, cough while nursing as though the milk is coming too fast
* Pull off the breast often while nursing
* Clamp down on the nipple at let-down to slow the flow of milk
* Make a clicking sound when nursing
* Spit up very often and/or tend to be very gassy
* Periodically refuse to nurse
* Dislike comfort nursing in general


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

So sorry you had a set back.

To help baby deal with the forceful letdown do you:

try to nurse either lying down, so milk can flow out the side of the baby's mouth

or

in a reclined position, so milk has to go uphill?

or

flat on your back with baby on top of you.

Basically any postion that keeps the baby from being under your flowing breast.

And you are doing one side only now for how many hours? Do you need to increase length of time between making the switch?

Have you heard about soy lecithin? With all the fevers, low grade and now higher, you may benefit from this.

Are you doing the cabbage leaves?

I rec calling your friend again, as well as a LLL Leader. You need to keep your morale up. Talking through your emotions seemed to help before.

You are a very smart lady and I know you will get through this!!!


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I took Echinacea/Goldenseal "Supreme" tincture by Gaia Herbs last night at the onset of my fever (after chills, so I knew it was mastitis.) This aggressive approach paid off, and by morning my fever was gone!!!

I went to my naturopathic physician (who is an applied kinesiologist/chiropracter) and had him test me on the sage tea and the echinecea. The echinacea now tests at 10 drops 3 times a day. The pure sage did not test as effective for medicinal use; however, the "Female Sage" tea by Traditional Medicines (the same company that makes "Mother's Milk" tea) tested as effective for reducing milk supply at 3 cups a day, which is a much higher dose than I found recommended at websites such as kellymom (mentioned earlier in this thread.)

I'm feeling so much better.

I'm nursing better, though I am still having problems with forceful letdown some of the time. I drip like crazy both during and between feedings.

My nursing strategy is to use one breast excllusively per 3 hour period. I'm not diligent about it, though. DD2 nurses on demand, which isn't particularly regular, and sometimes I forget which breast to use. Overall, the strategy appears to be working. The principle is to try to empty each breast as much as possible, and allow the breast not-in-use to stay full and provide feedback to the body that it should not engorge. I think it works.

I'm ready to try some of the other nursing positions. I used them effectively with DD1 when I had similar problems. I've been in too much pain until now to try it with DD2, but I'm ready now!

I took a hot shower, and this is the best that my breasts have felt since DD2's birth on New Year's Eve!!! I still have some breast pain, and I will try to get my courage up to massage it (I'm such a wimp about it!). The pain is under my arm pits mostly, where the ducts begin.

I really appreciate everyone's advice! I wish I could thank you all personally.

-- Caitlin


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I took Echinacea/Goldenseal "Supreme" tincture by Gaia Herbs last night at the onset of my fever (after chills, so I knew it was mastitis.) This aggressive approach paid off, and by morning my fever was gone!!!

I went to my naturopathic physician (who is an applied kinesiologist/chiropracter) and had him test me on the sage tea and the echinecea. The echinacea now tests at 10 drops 3 times a day. The pure sage did not test as effective for medicinal use; however, the "Female Sage" tea by Traditional Medicines (the same company that makes "Mother's Milk" tea) tested as effective for reducing milk supply at 3 cups a day, which is a much higher dose than I found recommended at websites such as kellymom (mentioned earlier in this thread.)

I'm feeling so much better.

I'm nursing better, though I am still having problems with forceful letdown some of the time. I drip like crazy both during and between feedings.

My nursing strategy is to use one breast excllusively per 3 hour period. I'm not diligent about it, though. DD2 nurses on demand, which isn't particularly regular, and sometimes I forget which breast to use. Overall, the strategy appears to be working. The principle is to try to empty each breast as much as possible, and allow the breast not-in-use to stay full and provide feedback to the body that it should not engorge. I think it works.

I'm ready to try some of the other nursing positions. I used them effectively with DD1 when I had similar problems. I've been in too much pain until now to try it with DD2, but I'm ready now!

I took a hot shower, and this is the best that my breasts have felt since DD2's birth on New Year's Eve!!! I still have some breast pain, and I will try to get my courage up to massage it (I'm such a wimp about it!). The pain is under my arm pits mostly, where the ducts begin.

I really appreciate everyone's advice! I wish I could thank you all personally.

-- Caitlin


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## cwaddick (Oct 16, 2002)

I really missed posting on my own personal thread last week while MDC transfered to a new server.

Today is my Day 22 postpartum, and breastfeeding is almost comfortable. At least, I am not dreading the latches.

After the mastitis lifted, I had some breast pain on my right side. I have been taking one dose of echniacea (10-30 drops in water) per day to keep the mastitis from returning. I have also soaked my breasts in hot water (baths and showers).

I stopped drinking the Female Sage Tea for fear that my milk supply might decrease too much.

Now that the engorgement is gone, I am able to latch her in an uphill position, such as while lying on my back, belly-to-belly.

It no longer hurts to move my arms.

*Here are my residual BFing problems.*
* CLAMPING. I could swear this girl has teeth sometimes, and I have no idea what to do about it. I think the clamping is a response to...

* FORCEFUL LET-DOWN and LEAKING. The milk comes out so fast. I am using cotton prefold diapers to catch the milk under my BFing breast and on the opposite breast, and I soak one or two every time I nurse. I think that DD2 clamps down the the breast to stop or slow the milk flow. In the evening, mostly, she latches on for 2 and 3 second periods, then comes up sputtering and coughing and sneezing and crying. I burp her often, and she burps big ones. Last night, this lasted for about 4-5 hours of latching, burping, crying, and farting. One thing that helps is holding her upright.

* GASSINESS and FUSSINESS. DD2 swallows the milk so fast. Between gulping the milk and crying, she swallows a lot of air and has to burp. She also seems very gassy. I try to "bicycle" her legs, but she holds them tensed. I am able to move her legs some, and she does fart when I do. I have tried giving her gripe water and Mylecon drops. Both provide DD2 momentary relief. The Mylecon drops seem to work instantly. Last night, after hours of latching on and off and crying and farting and holding her upright for 10 minutes of relief here and there, I was strategic about giving her Mylecon drops, nursing her uphill on top of me (while I lay on my back)... and she fell asleep on me. I was able to transfer her to the bed beside me, and we slept most of the night... with one night waking at 2:30 am for a diaper change and milkie, in which we were both half-asleep. So, we did sleep well.

* PAINFUL LET-DOWN and LEAKING. When my milk lets-down, I feel it very strongly. It hurts. The pain is exactly the feeling that I get when after sitting for too long and my foot falls asleep and I have to walk on it. Once I feel the let-down, I have just seconds to find a towel to start catching milk. Otherwise, I drip faster than 1 drop per second, and I can catch the milk in my palm and drink it by the teaspoon OR get my shirt and pants wet if I can't get ahold of a towel in time. When DD2 latches off in the middle of a feed, such as at night during her fussy times, I often dribble milk on her and my shirt, so we are both cold and wet. I can't possible change her outfits 12 times a day.

DD1 calls.
-- Caitlin


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

I'm glad to hear it's going somewhat better, although it sounds like you still have some challenges to overcome. Maybe your body thinks you're nursing triplets?









I hope it keeps getting better, even if slooooooowly.


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