# 11 year old and the pool



## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I would appreciate feedback about this issue.

Ds is 11 and he is not a strong swimmer. He has some medical issues (heart related) and as a result has never been a very athletic or coordinated child. Generally speaking he is behind with gross motor skills (but advanced with fine motor/cognitive skills). He seems more like a 6/7 year old in terms of gross motor coordination.

He has made good friends with a child in our neighborhood (same age). This family has a very, very large fenced yard. In the center of the large yard is a pool. The pool has no additional fence or screen around it.

I am really struggling in regards to the pool and playdays at this friends house. I find that I have a persistent fear of the pool. I can envision ds falling into it accidentally and not getting out in time









I have talked to him about the pool, and my concerns, and he assured me he wouldn't go near the water. I believe he wouldn't go near it intentionally--but I don't feel reassured that he could get out of the water if he fell in unexpectedly. The disorientation, wearing bulky winter clothes, shoes etc, I am afraid that he could drown. Maybe that is an over reaction, but I'm not sure. I could see this happening, and it scares me









The problem is that he is at a sensitive age and I am very concerned about embarassing him. His new friend is a singularly competent kid--I'm not surprised her mother has no fears about her playing near the pool. She is very coordinated, and is just the kind of kid you know can watch out for herself.

The friend often has other friends over from school and all the children run freely in the house and yard. This friendship is important to ds, and I think it's been very good for him. He has a lot of fun. I don't want to jeapardize that by being overly restrictive/protective









I find myself praying for rainy days so the kids won't want to go outside to play.

I don't know what to do here. I *love* the mother involved--and I have spoken to her about my concerns. She was understanding, but I don't think a solution has surfaced. I'm not sure just how far I should go in terms of asking her to accomodate me. What is appropriate, or even realistic?

Would it be okay to say to the other mother "If the kids want to go outside, if you can't go out and watch them, would you please call me so I can walk over to keep an eye out"? I think it would be less embarassing to have the mom call me than to ask ds to call--but maybe it's not fair to ask the other mother to supervise to this degree if it's not how she usually runs her home?

What do you think? How can I reconcile the fear and keeping ds safe without embarassing him or being overly protective?


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

how much effort would it take for you to transform your house into the cool neighborhood hot spot? It might be worth it to persue that, easier to control the situation that way, and you don't have to ask other people to accommodate.


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## beachmouse (Sep 27, 2007)

I see it as more of an education issue.

As long as his health allows, I'd go for more swim lessons. As someone who lives in an area with a lot of ocean drownings, I feel like every child should be able to swim 200 yards straight (doesn't have to be fast, doesn't have to look pretty) and tread water for a couple of minutes.

In the interim, discuss water safety with the other parents. The pool should have a rescue pole that someone else can use to extend out to someone who accidentally falls into the deep end of the pool. It's by far the best way of helping someone out of trouble. Emphasize that you never ever jump into the water to try to rescue a consciuos person- they'll panic and try to take you down with you.

It's gonna be okay. He's gonna be okay.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Assuming he did actually fall in, worst case scenario, he wouldn't be outside alone, he would be with the other kid/kids and I'm sure a parent would be home. As someone who grew up with a pool and also had a pool when my child was an infant and an older kid I know that we have worked out emergency scenarios and I'm guessing your ds friend and parent have too. Unless there isn't a reason to trust them, I'd assume that if by freak accident he fell in the pool that the kids would immediately throw in a flotation device and go get a parent.

Unless they are really neglectful or there is something I don't know I don't think your ds is at any real risk of drowning.

If you can't find a way to reconcile your fears on your own, maybe you should talk to a counselor about it?


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## 1growingsprout (Nov 14, 2005)

How deep is the pool? Around here most backyard pools are not deeper then 5ft. Honestly a backyard pool isnt that large, there are other kids/people around. At 11 I would trust my child at someones house with a pool.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I think by 11, you should be able to trust your ds when he says he won't go near the pool.

I second that if he's healthy enough, swimming lessons are in order. I also agree that you're dealing with older kids who would know who and how to call for help if he did fall in.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Have you talked to the other child's parents about your concerns? Hopefully a parent is at home when your child goes over there. There are way more things to worry about than just water safety when two kids that age are alone in a house.







I feel that if the parents will be there then have a talk with them about it about it. I'm sure they won't mind. You will have to get to know them anyway in order for your child to go there right?

I worry about my older two children a lot now that they get out and do more on their own, but sometimes you just have to trust them and learn to loosen the reigns a bit.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

I *love* the mother involved--and I have spoken to her about my concerns. She was understanding, but I don't think a solution has surfaced.
she posted this in the OP, she has talked to the mom.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Assuming he did actually fall in, worst case scenario, he wouldn't be outside alone, he would be with the other kid/kids and I'm sure a parent would be home.


Quote:

Unless there isn't a reason to trust them, I'd assume that if by freak accident he fell in the pool that the kids would immediately throw in a flotation device and go get a parent.








:


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## Pepperdove (Apr 13, 2007)

Isn't the pool drained in the winter?

This strikes me as a kind of Finding Nemo moment. He's 11 - he really is old enough that you are going to have to let go sometimes. He says he won't go near the pool. Do you trust him? If no, then I guess you have your answer. If yes, then he can't prove that your trust is worthy unless you let him.

I also believe that more swimming lessons are always a good thing.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Thanks for all the replies!

I trust that he wouldn't go near the water intentionally. He is very mature in that regard. But, the pool is in the center of the yard. If he were running and not looking where he was going, he could fall into it. So, my concern is that if he fell into accidentally--could he get out? I'm not sure. This is where his special needs really concern me.

I don't know how I feel about expecting another child to save him. That feels wrong to me somehow. He is bigger than the other 11 year old. I'm sure she would run to get her mom--but people drown quickly, and I'd rather talk prevention than guess how quickly the other child could find her mother.

He does take swimming lessons every year. He *can* swim. But again, he is not a strong swimmer. He just isn't. I guess you have to see it to know what I mean. Possibly something like water physical therapy would get us to the point where he is really competent in the water.

Anyway, sometimes just reading replies can help you clarify your own feelings, kwim? I am going to trust my gut here, which is telling me that an adult needs to be keeping an eye out when ds is playing near deep water. In fact, when I thought about this as I read the replies, I realized that for me personally, pools+kids=adult supervision, period. I grew up in a state where many people drowned in backyard pools each year. Not just toddlers, but older kids, stunt-performing teens, and feeble seniors. I'm not sure the source of my anxiety was entirely ds' personal limitations, so much as my general belief about water safety. *I* just don't think pools and kids should mix unless adults are watching. I was so focused on ds' physical issues I needed to step back and see the underlying concern. So, thanks for that!

I think it will work to simply ask the other mom to call me if the kids head outside and she can't watch them. Also, to let ds know that he shouldn't go outside unless an adult is out there.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

You should do what feels right to you!

However, you also might consider getting him into a year round swimming program. One of the kids on my DDs' swim team has CF -- he has to take breaks sometimes, and he misses sometimes, but he is a great swimmer inspite of having serious medical problems. You son has lacks gross motor skills common to his age, and swimming is a wonderful sport for developing them.

While I completely validate your concerns about keeping your child safe, I think that you see your son as a weak, special little boy, and that he is on the verge of growing up. Coming to a place where you see him, and therefore paving the way for he to see himself, as strong, athletic kid could be VERY helpful for him going into the teen years.

While you may need to supervise your 11 around water right now because he lacks basic skills, I think that getting him those skills is the long term solution.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
You should do what feels right to you!

However, you also might consider getting him into a year round swimming program. One of the kids on my DDs' swim team has CF -- he has to take breaks sometimes, and he misses sometimes, but he is a great swimmer inspite of having serious medical problems. You son has lacks gross motor skills common to his age, and swimming is a wonderful sport for developing them.

While I completely validate your concerns about keeping your child safe, I think that you see your son as a weak, special little boy, and that he is on the verge of growing up. Coming to a place where you see him, and therefore paving the way for he to see himself, as strong, athletic kid could be VERY helpful for him going into the teen years.

While you may need to supervise your 11 around water right now because he lacks basic skills, I think that getting him those skills is the long term solution.


Yeh what she said. LOL


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I don't know, dh parents were completely paranoid over his safety to the point that when he got the chance when he got older he totally rebelled. I'll be honest, I think your issues with water safety are resulting in limiting your childs normal activities. Normal concern for safety is one thing, requiring 100% supervision of an 11 year old in what you describe a very very large backyard that happens to have a pool is not. If it was a small yard with like 5 feet around it to the fence line that would cause more concern.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

While you may need to supervise your 11 around water right now because he lacks basic skills, I think that getting him those skills is the long term solution.
Yes, I definitely agree there. I overheard the mom of an older teen with special needs discuss a similar issue related to driving skills (or lack thereof).

Quote:

I think that you see your son as a weak, special little boy, and that he is on the verge of growing up. Coming to a place where you see him, and therefore paving the way for he to see himself, as strong, athletic kid could be VERY helpful for him going into the teen years.
I appreciate this idea, but believing ds is specifically _athletic_ and strong in *that* sense feels very dismissive. I think you are generally saying to project an image of ds as competent and confident--which I do. But, where ds has issues, he has issues, and these are facts we have to deal with, both in the long and short term. In the long term, I feel confident he will acquire the skills he needs to succeed in life. In the short term, sometimes we just have to do the best we can to determine what is right, at this particular moment.

Quote:

I'll be honest, I think your issues with water safety are resulting in limiting your childs normal activities.
I dunno. To me this is kind of like saying the parents of a child with food allergies are holding the child back from normal food activities. Maybe they are...but then words like "normal" are hard reconcile, since "normal" is not what we are dealing with---I try to go by what seems best for ds, and what he considers best for himself. He seems content with the previously mentioned pool decision. If he were upset with it, I would consider another solution. Today his friend had a sitter after school. Ds called me from their house to say they were going to play outside, and the sitter was going to hang out in the yard with them. It worked out well.

However ds' issues aside, if I were given charge of any group of 11 year olds, I would not leave them unsupervised to play around a pool. I wouldn't be standing right there with a whistle and a life vest, but I wouldn't go inside and take a nap either. I'd be keeping an eye out. I am sure other parents exist who feels that way. There are different comfort levels with any issue--none being right or wrong, but just reflecting different life experiences.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'll be honest, I think your issues with water safety are resulting in limiting your childs normal activities.

Nowhere does she say that. She is just talking about being concerned for his safety when he IS there. not that she isn't letting him go over there or play in the yard.

I think, HM, that you should go with your instincts on this one. How about talking to the other mother about some specific safety measures like a pole and flotation device stored next to the pool, a whistle for the other child to blow if he falls in, etc.?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Ok well call me crazy, but I think 11 year olds playing in a very very large backyard with a pool without constant supervision outside the whole time is normal. And that was my point. I already posted about normal safety measures that people with pools should have including flotation devices and an emergency plan that is well known and practiced with the kids so they know what to do just in case.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I appreciate this idea, but believing ds is specifically _athletic_ and strong in *that* sense feels very dismissive.

I don't mean to be dismissive, just to point out that there isn't any way to know right now what his potential is, and that you believing that something is possible for him is the first step for making it a reality for him.

You said that right now he has the gross motor skills of a 6 or 7 year old, and that's plenty to be a great swimmer. Swimming is one of the best sports for cardio fitness. Swimming is a great sport for many kids who find other sports difficult because it is basically just the same thing over and over.









The boy with CF on my DDs' swim team most likely isn't going to live to be an adult. He took home several ribbons in the last meet. He is a strong, atheltic kid who is seriously ill.

There's no reason why your son can't be strong and independent, even though right now he isn't. The first step for him getting there, though, is you being able to visualize it.

Quote:

where ds has issues, he has issues, and these are facts we have to deal with, both in the long and short term. In the long term, I feel confident he will acquire the skills he needs to succeed in life.
I think that it is one of our jobs as parents to help our kids get over their issues and help them acquire the skills they need to lead full lives.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I would ask to go over there and have him jump in with all his clothes, shoes and jacket on and try to get out.

We did this at about age 10-11 at whatever Red Cross swim level I was at at the time (prolly the last level). I think it's good to feel the difference. The other thing you're supposed to know survival wise, from my 27 year old memory, is to learn to take off your shoes and possibly some clothes if you fall in, and use, say, your jeans to create a floation device -- cuff the legs and then scoop some air into them (you have to periodically refill). This is what they would recommend if you fell in off a boat and were waiting for rescue or for some reason couldn't swim out, I guess.

I'm not sure that's up to date but it might make a fun game.

Or he will be shocked at how cold it is and you'll be more confident that he is going to take a wide berth around the pool.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

What about rivers, lakes and the like? Many places have bodies of water...in a few years (maybe less) he is going to be biking or walking around by himself. He does *need* to know how to stay safe around water without an adults supervision.

You say his gross motor is a little weak - what is the real liklihood of him _running_ near the pool then? I am being sincere - my 11 year old is not particularly athletic, and he does not run much. This cuts down on the liklihood of accidentally landing in the pool.

Last thought - MY DS has a good friend with peanut allergies. DS friend is very, very good about self monitorring foods. If you DS is worried about the pool (not usre if he is?) he will self-monitor around it and not go near it.

Kathy


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I'd have another talk with the other mom about water safety, and let her know your fear about him falling in. Ask them about having a flotation device readily available and if they would practice with their daughter what to do if anyone falls into the pool.

Your son should continue to take swimming lessons. Even if he is not a good swimmer, he can learn water survival skills -- don't panic, float on your back, use the flotation device, climb out using a ladder or steps, etc. etc. Toddlers can learn to keep their heads above the water and to stay calm, and so you and he can get a greater comfort level with that. He should learn basic confidence in the water, how to get to the side, how to not panic, and how to use a ladder to get in and out safely -- nothing fancy, no jeans tying, etc.... maybe shoe or boot removal --- talk to a swim instructor about your specific needs and you may want to pay for individual lessons.) With swimming lessons and if he gets very comfortable with the water you both will be confident that he can get out or at the very least, keep safe until additional help arrives.

I think it's OK for you to ask the mom if you can watch the kids at their house. (I think you should do this a *few* times, so you can get a sense if your fears are justified or if you are over worrying yourself.) Perhaps your observations will help give clarity as to whether your son is really safe when playing around the pool and whether he does a good enough job avoiding it. I would not make your observations a regular thing, unless you see a real problem with him getting too close to the pool.. If that's the case, then do playdates at your house or do outings for a while.

In the end, safety comes before embarassment, but it sounds like your fears may be exaggerated in your mind. I hope it all works out!

Good luck!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

There's no reason why your son can't be strong and independent, even though right now he isn't. The first step for him getting there, though, is you being able to visualize it.

Quote:

I think that it is one of our jobs as parents to help our kids get over their issues and help them acquire the skills they need to lead full lives.
I think we are running into a perspective difference here. I can appreciate that you are trying to be helpful, but suggesting that I help ds "get over" his special needs isn't helpful to us at all. Partly because that isn't a solution to my immediate concern about water safety, and also because I believe long term he will often acquire life skills _while dealing with_ his special needs. I have every confidence that he will succeed in life--I don't think I ever expressed doubt or concern there in my posts. I agree with everyone who said that water safety classes are in order for ds. Definitely. Anyway, I think I get what you are trying to say, but I do feel very distracted by the way you are saying it.

Quote:

Ok well call me crazy, but I think 11 year olds playing in a very very large backyard with a pool without constant supervision outside the whole time is normal.
I don't think you are crazy. I do think, in my opinion, the CDC guidelines for water safety mean that constant supervision of 11 year olds playing in or around a pool is perfectly reasonable, and in fact, recommended. The CDC swimming guidelines differentiates "young children" from "children". "Young children" are those 4 and under, and should be supervised constantly near water filled buckets, toilets, and baths. "Children" are those 14 and under. "Children" should be supervised constantly near pools. The CDC states that drowning is the second leading cause of death for children age 14 and under. Many public and club pools use that as their standard of safety--all children 14 and under must have a parent supervising at all times.

And anyway, maybe pool safety guidelines should be another thread? It's probably beyond the scope of this thread.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

eh, I don't take advice from the CDC on vax and I have no reason to on this. Honestly I think you are only citing it because it supports your already held fears.

I grew up with a pool, and have lived in houses with pools off and on my whole life including while raising my 18 years old. I believe I am experienced and capable of knowing what is safe or not. I also took those same classes that the PP mentioned and did the test of jumping in with all my clothes at about that age because my little sister was a toddler when I was your sons age and my parents took pool safety seriously so she was talking YMCA swimming lessons, so I did also.

I think that suggestion of the fully clothed jump in was right on, but it would be preferable if the child had previously had pool safety lessons with a professional and was prepared. I'd never just toss a kid in that hadn't been instructed what to do.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
And anyway, maybe pool safety guidelines should be another thread? It's probably beyond the scope of this thread.

It's directly applicable IMO to this topic, because you are concerned about safety. That is why people brought it up.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

This has been an interesting thread to read. Fear is complicated and it seems pretty individual. For what it is worth I have a 11 year old with special needs. He has very poor coordination and he can't swim. It has never occurred to me at age 11 that there would be anything unsafe about him playing in the yard of a person with an unfenced pool because I trust that he doesn't want to be hurt and is capable of making appropriate choices.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
It's directly applicable IMO to this topic, because you are concerned about safety. That is why people brought it up.

Yeah, if this topic is not about pool safety, then I'm very confused as to what the point really is.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

Honestly I think you are only citing it because it supports your already held fears.
Yes, if I had no concerns I probably wouldn't care what they said. I do have concerns, so for me it's relevent.

Quote:

It has never occurred to me at age 11 that there would be anything unsafe about him playing in the yard of a person with an unfenced pool because I trust that he doesn't want to be hurt and is capable of making appropriate choices.
Ds does not want to be hurt and he can make appropriate choices-neither of which eliminate the possibility of an unintentional accident. I just wanted to point out that the former statement is true for us as well, regardless of whether I think an adult should supervise kids near the pool.

Quote:

It's directly applicable IMO to this topic, because you are concerned about safety. That is why people brought it up.

Quote:

Yeah, if this topic is not about pool safety, then I'm very confused as to what the point really is.
Well maybe it evolved?







But I posted that original post to examine how I'd like to respond to a specific personal situation. I wasn't thinking "Let's debate pool safety". Somehow we got there, but it really wasn't my intent. So, I think I'll bow out if it continues in that vein, as I did get what I needed from the thread, and the issue is resolved for me personally. Happy Halloween!


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## Penelope (Jul 22, 2003)

If your concern is mostly about how he'd respond if he fell in while fully clothed in fall clothes - could you discuss the possibility of a pool cover with this mama? I'm sorry, I don't recall what the climate is like in your area, but someone asked upthread if the pool would be drained for the winter, I take it the answer is no, but if it's cool enough to wear jeans/long sleeves/coats, isn't it too cold to swim?

I'm just wondering if there's a practical solution that might eliminate the hazard. Failing that, IMO it's totally fine to ask the other mama if she'll call you to supervise when the kids are outside and she's otherwise occupied. She sounds like a nice and kind mama - I'm sure the two of you can come to a mutually acceptable solution.


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## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

As I reaad through this thread many things came to mind. The most prominent one though is that heartmama has a child with special needs. I don't know what those needs are specifically but my feeling is that they are a deep concern and may have been life threatening at one point.

If this is the case, heartmama may have seen her son fighting for his life and feel a strong need to protect him and keep him safe.

As a mama who has lost a child, I know how easy it is to become hyper-vigilant in regards to keeping a child safe. Everything that many parents take for granted may seem a threat to our children. We think twice, three times, a hundred times about things most parents might not even blink an eye at. It's not that we care more than other parents it's that we have seen first hand how easily it can all be snatched away and we live in fear of making the wrong choice and our child paying the price for it.

I may be wrong about all this and reading into the post my own fears and concerns... If this is the case, I apologize. I'm trying to put all my own thoughts and fears about life and death into words that don't come easily so I hope I have done so without being offensive or having my words taken wrong.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Hi heartmama,

I don't feel particularly qualified to post to this thread. I have a 2 year old, and no experience with 11 year olds except my 1-year stint as an 11 year old myself some 19 years ago. I also don't have a pool or any special knowledge of pool safety.

But I wanted to round out the answers a little, since it does seem you're getting a lot of the same ones: "You're worrying too much."

I can emphathize with your feelings about your DS's physical capabilities because my DD is also significantly behind her peers in that regard. She does not have a diagnosis, she's fine, but she's definitely "different" in terms of gross motor capabilities. She's much weaker and much less confident as a result. I could easily see myself worried for her 9 years from now if she were going to play at a house with a situation like that. I also observe that other parents feel I am overprotective of her, but they do not understand that I actually started out as a very laid-back parent, and became more protective of her physical skills as a result of HER needs. It's easy to brush off issues like that and blame the parent. In some cases the parent may well be to blame. But at least in my case, and I fully believe yours, the child has some delays and the parent is right to consider those delays when helping the child meet the world.

I believe some states have regulations that require a fence completely enclosing the pool itself - not good enough to just have it around the house, but that a fence must be between the house and pool as well. I assume this is not the case in your state, and I doubt you wanted to make it even that much of an issue. But the reason I brought it up is that pool safety is a serious concern in general, and one reason it's such a serious concern is that parents, well, don't take it seriously enough. I've read posts in the toddler forum discussing whether they leave toddlers unattended or not. Without getting into that in detail, some mothers said they did and felt comfortable with that because their child could swim or hold their breath or whatever. And completely not understanding that swimming skills really have nothing to do with people drowning in the tub - probably not many tubs you can swim in, anyway. And accidents in the tub have nothing to do with swimming - people slip, bonk their heads and fall unconscious and drown. Yay for swimming lessons, right?

Here I am going totally off topic again but my point is that there is a difference between being an overprotective worrywart and being sensible about the real dangers of backyard pools - for any children, not just ones with low gross motor abilities.

The difference between being sensible and overprotective is taking care of the issue and then letting it go, I think. You've obviously talked to your son, and talked to the other mama. I suppose you might want to:

1) Finish all that up by discussing specific pool safety steps with your son AND his friend - including pointing out safety devices (like the pole or float or whatever) and drilling what to do if either of them fell in and was having problems (using the pole or float and YELLING for help). And, I believe, that neither of them should jump in after the other. You'll definitely want to research pool safety first so you can take the best advice into consideration. You might want to prepare for this by also looking up some stats on this - the kids will probably roll their eyes when you discuss safety with them, but if you say "I know it seems silly, and it seems silly to a lot of people, but they don't know how common drowning in pools is - and it's not just people doing stupid things, and I know you guys won't be stupid. But even people who are not being stupid can sometimes fall in a pool and drown, and I just want to talk to you guys about it once so you know." it might hit home a little more.

2) Decide if you're ok with DS going there. Obviously you're allowing this so you must be ok, but I mean for your own peace of mind, weigh the options and say to yourself, you know, I am going to allow this, and I'm not going to keep worrying about it. And then you've decided.

3) Then, having made that decision and done everything you can do to protect DS, stop worrying about it


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## rayner (Apr 3, 2007)

could you not have a quiet word with the mother who has a pool in her yard and ask her to drain her pool to a level at which the water would just come above his shoulders. i know this could be embarrising for him but better to be embarrased than dead. perhaps a ladder strapped to the side of the pool for them to get out. so many kids drown in pools even when they are supervised. if a pool is quite deep one cannot always see and the changing shapes can fool even a lifeguard.
rayner


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

could you not have a quiet word with the mother who has a pool in her yard and ask her to drain her pool to a level at which the water would just come above his shoulders. i know this could be embarrising for him but better to be embarrased than dead. perhaps a ladder strapped to the side of the pool for them to get out. so many kids drown in pools even when they are supervised. if a pool is quite deep one cannot always see and the changing shapes can fool even a lifeguard.
rayner
Depending on the individual pool, I think that is actually more dangerous. There would be a higher chance of head injury. Such drainage could (depending on how deep the deep end is) leave the shallow end either completely without water which means a much higher risk of injury if someone falls in into the shallow end with no water to cushion and it makes the deep end more dangerous too with a likelihood of either limb injury or head injury because there is less water to slow down the body before hitting the bottom.

All around a very bad idea.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I would ask to go over there and have him jump in with all his clothes, shoes and jacket on and try to get out.

We did this at about age 10-11 at whatever Red Cross swim level I was at at the time (prolly the last level).

Or he will be shocked at how cold it is and you'll be more confident that he is going to take a wide berth around the pool.


I think this is an awesome idea! I remember having to do this at that age, too. Then you'll all know how competent he is to get out.


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## olehippy (Feb 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I would ask to go over there and have him jump in with all his clothes, shoes and jacket on and try to get out.

We did this at about age 10-11 at whatever Red Cross swim level I was at at the time (prolly the last level). I think it's good to feel the difference. The other thing you're supposed to know survival wise, from my 27 year old memory, is to learn to take off your shoes and possibly some clothes if you fall in, and use, say, your jeans to create a floation device -- cuff the legs and then scoop some air into them (you have to periodically refill). This is what they would recommend if you fell in off a boat and were waiting for rescue or for some reason couldn't swim out, I guess.

I'm not sure that's up to date but it might make a fun game.

Or he will be shocked at how cold it is and you'll be more confident that he is going to take a wide berth around the pool.


I was gonna suggest this also. I remember doing this at a Red Cross water safety course when I was probably 12 or so. Falling in the water fully dressed is a lot different than getting in with your swimsuit on. The clothing and shoes are very heavy and weigh you down a lot.

I'll also add that I have a 10 & 11 yo and I believe at this age they still need adult supervision when playing around a pool. Especially when other children are around and there is a lot of horseplay/running going on.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask the mom to call if they are going to be running around outside.

This thread isn't exactly about pool safety, it is about hm's ds who has had multiple heart surgeries.

Spewing guidelines doesn't really work as her ds has very individual needs.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
Spewing guidelines doesn't really work as her ds has very individual needs.

The OP is the one "spewing guidelines." See post 22.

OP, sorry you bowed out. Sounds like you decided to supervise if there was to be no other supervision. That sounds like a good interim solution. It also sounds like you plan to work on getting ds swimming skills improved, which as you said, is a good long-term solution. But I think pps had some other good ideas to think about, in addition to making sure he's supervised. Like, for instance, if the supervising babysitter went into the house to use the bathroom you'd want some additional peace of mind. They were ideas like letting ds practice falling in, if it wouldn't be embarrassing (I gather it might, but this could also be done in a private swim class), and making sure that ds and friend have a plan in case of an accident. Good additional ideas IMO.


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## Blue Tulip (Nov 2, 2007)

As someone who has a pool in her backyard, I would not mind at all if someone had concerns and called me about it. Although, ours is fenced and the lock remains on.


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## beachmouse (Sep 27, 2007)

From today's front page at USA Swimming's site. It made me think of this topic.

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/V...=1783&mid=3352

Quote:

Talin nearly died last year after a blood clot in her leg traveled to her heart and lung, causing her lung to collapse. There's no doubt in the high school junior's mind that swimming is the reason she's alive today.

Talin has Klippel-Trenaunay Syndrome, K-T for short. It's a rare vascular disorder causing a malformation of the veins that can result in anything from a birthmark to excessive growth of the toes, cellulitis, venous thrombosis or pulmonary embolism.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

If you don't mind going over to supervise then go for it.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
We did this at about age 10-11 at whatever Red Cross swim level I was at at the time (prolly the last level). I think it's good to feel the difference. The other thing you're supposed to know survival wise, from my 27 year old memory, is to learn to take off your shoes and possibly some clothes if you fall in, and use, say, your jeans to create a floation device -- cuff the legs and then scoop some air into them (you have to periodically refill).

This, unfortunately, isn't a part of the RC curriculum anymore. I remember it as a student, but I taught RC swim lessons for eight years, and they've taken it out. Too bad, it was probably the most fun day we had in swimming lessons (when else do you get to intentionally jump into the water wearing jeans, shoes, and a long-sleeved shirt?







), and it was very useful... learning how to tread water wearing clothes, and practicing removing those clothes while in deep water.

Do the offer private swimming lessons where you do your regular lessons? Where I taught, they were pretty reasonably priced, and you could ask the instructor to work on what to do in the case of an accidental falling-in (turn over onto your back, getting to the side, practicing doing all this with something other than just a pair of trunks on). Just practicing the skill a few times might make all the difference. Trust me, swim instructors have gotten far more obscure requests for private lessons.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I don't know, dh parents were completely paranoid over his safety to the point that when he got the chance when he got older he totally rebelled. I'll be honest, I think your issues with water safety are resulting in limiting your childs normal activities. Normal concern for safety is one thing, requiring 100% supervision of an 11 year old in what you describe a very very large backyard that happens to have a pool is not. If it was a small yard with like 5 feet around it to the fence line that would cause more concern.

I have to respectfully disagree here. I live near the ocean and nearly everyone has a pool in the back yard. My mom lives across town (same city)--about two months ago one of her neighbors slept walked (is that the right way to phrase it?) out of their home and into the next door neighbor's backyard pool and fell in and drowned. She was 50 and had not been drinking--just sleep walking.
A week ago a toddler fell into a pool at a daycare and drowned. Yes, I know, this was a toddler, but it is still an issue.
And many times kids see other kids fall into pools and think that they are 'playing' when they can't swim--I've heard about a teen boy drowning while his friends swam all around him, thinking he was playing about not being able to move--he had broken his neck coming off the diving board and could not move, face down in the water. Or kids panic and don't know what to do.
I think it is a big concern.
Nothing like getting sued over a pool accident to ruin a friendship. Not only that, have you ever fallen into a pool in the winter/during colder weather? You really have to be thinking clearly in order not to panic in such cold water.
I agree with the poster who said that you might want to try making your home the hang out spot. If that doesn't work, there must be some alternative.
Talking to the mom about keeping an eye out is a good idea...and I don't agree with the previous poster who assumed that they probably already have an emergency plan--I would never take that kind of thing for granted. People have pools all the time in this area and I seriously doubt that half of them have a plan for an emergency (heck, half of them don't even have a plan for how they are going to pay off their credit cards--but that's another story)....
I agree that many issues come up when safety is concerned and as our kids grow older there always seem to be more...but why take unnecessary chances? I mean, if something were to happen, the FIRST thing people would say would be: why wasn't someone watching them? Why wasn't the pool closed? What were they doing back there? etc.
It's not worth it. I say trust your gut.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

you are seriously comparing a toddler and a sleep walker with a 11 year old? um ok







:


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 







you are seriously comparing a toddler and a sleep walker with a 11 year old? um ok







:

I agree. Those were special incidences.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Are you seriously suggesting an 11 year old is immune to drowning?

Quote:

Drowning is the second-leading cause of injury-related death among children under the age of 15.

- U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Quote:

Children under five and adolescents between the ages of 15-24 have the highest drowning rates.

- U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Granted the child in question is not in those age ranges - but goes to show you that he's not "immune' just because he's over 5.

Don't forget, folks, he has some gross motor weakness as well, which would put him at even higher risk.

I guess I'm not sure what the posters who want to pretent an 11 year old has no chance of drowning want to achieve here.

IT'S THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF INJURY-RELATED DEATH FOR HIS AGE GROUP.

Quote:

An estimated 5,000 children ages 14 and under are hospitalized due to unintentional drowning-related incidents each year; 15 percent die in the hospital and as many as 20 percent suffer severe, permanent neurological disability.

- National Safety Council
You don't want to take this seriously? What will that achieve?

Guys, really. Why would you be so invested in making drowning a non-issue? And writing off every case of drowning as a "special incidence"?

Hey, even if all drowning cases were "special" - the OP's kid has some "special" needs as well. So explain to me how that is supposed to make drowning a silly concern?


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blizzard_babe* 
This, unfortunately, isn't a part of the RC curriculum anymore. I remember it as a student, but I taught RC swim lessons for eight years, and they've taken it out. Too bad, it was probably the most fun day we had in swimming lessons (when else do you get to intentionally jump into the water wearing jeans, shoes, and a long-sleeved shirt?







), and it was very useful... learning how to tread water wearing clothes, and practicing removing those clothes while in deep water.

So they don't make you jump in, take off your jeans and blow them up into a Mae West floatation device anymore??







That was my favorite day of swim lessons in high school!


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So they don't make you jump in, take off your jeans and blow them up into a Mae West floatation device anymore??







That was my favorite day of swim lessons in high school!

I don't believe so, although I haven't taught in... four years (???), so maybe they put it back in the curriculum. I know some changes have been made since I let my certification lapse.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
You don't want to take this seriously? What will that achieve?

No one was advocating not taking it seriously. However, as the mother of a special needs 11 who swims approx. 1500 meters 5 nights a week, I find being worried about an 11 year old falling in a pool that he is not playing near and being unable to reach the side *odd.* It isn't that I think that the mom *shouldn't* be watching her child carefully if he is truly in danger, but I think that getting the child swimming lots and lots so he'll be comfortable around water for the rest of his life is a more complete solution.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I think we must be reading different threads as I haven't seen anyone here say a thing about immunity to drowing.


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## beachmouse (Sep 27, 2007)

I also find it odd to assume that an 11 year old is just as likely to drown as a 3 year old.

Former lifeguard here. The circumstances in which a 11-16 year old get themselves into trouble into the water are normally totally different than a toddler getting themselves into trouble in the water. A little one can have a near-drowning experience literally inches from the side of the pool. Older kids typically get themselves into trouble because they have some basic swim skills, but overestimate their own abilities, and find themselves 50 yards offshore in a rip current, or get talked into doing something stupid by their peers. (sadly alcohol starts to play a role in the problem with older kids and young adults)


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachmouse* 
I also find it odd to assume that an 11 year old is just as likely to drown as a 3 year old.


I think someone could only assume that if they had never met an 11 year old.









I just found out that another kid on my DDs' swim team has health problems. He has lung problems and tendency to chubbiness (which just makes the lung problems worse) so his doctors want him swimming.

He won several ribbons at our meet this weekend.


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