# "Do. Not. Cry."



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Okay, I have now heard this from two different mothers of my Girl Scouts on different occasions, directed toward their daughters who are 7 and 8 respectively. In each case the girl was disappointed about one of those things that seems small to an older person but is important to a kid, and tears were forming in her eyes when the mother leaned down to just a few inches from her face and said very firmly and loudly, "Do. Not. Cry." Each girl struggled for a minute or two and managed not to cry but then had about 10 minutes of what looked to me like silent fury before she felt like joining in the activities again; meanwhile mother turned away and resumed socializing with the other parents in a slightly fake-cheerful way. I was sort of afraid to ask either mother or daughter what was going on. Both of these were at times when things were fairly unstructured--returning to our campsite for rest period, and refreshments time after an awards ceremony--so it wasn't that a crying jag would prevent the girl from being able to participate in something.








: What would be the goal of a parent who does this? Are they trying to make their kids seem more mature? Do they so dislike comforting a crying child? What??? I just don't get it.


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## Lissybug (Oct 7, 2005)

Yuck- I read the title of your post and had to read on. I feel like crying for those little girls. I would have the same questions as you. Perhaps the mothers see crying in front of others as shameful? Maybe they think crying=bad/hurt, no crying=no hurting? Maybe they were never comforted or were told not to cry as a child.


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## TwinGirlsMama (Jan 19, 2005)

Ugh. I feel sorry for those girls. Sounds like they aren't allowed to "vent" properly, and that will just lead to trouble.

I've even stopped saying, "Don't cry" to my girls when they have fallen down and hurt themselves. At first all I want to do is hug them and say "don't cry, it's okay" but I realized that they are hurt! They CAN cry and it ISN'T okay (at least for that moment!). I tell them I know it hurts but they'll be better soon and they can let it all out. Something I wasn't allowed to do as a child much.

Anyway, thougth I'd add my thoughts.

Take care!!


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

I was always told not to cry by my father. (I always cried anyway.) His attitude was pretty much that I should suck it up. He thought it was silly to cry and couldn't understand why I was crying.

My sister constantly tells her 4 year old ds not to cry. From what I can gather, she tells him this because she thinks he is not really upset, rather just crying to get attention or to manipulate the situation.

I personally see nothing wrong with crying, especially when frustrated. I think crying for attention is a very valid reason to cry, and if a parent doesn't want their child crying for attention, the parent should ensure the child is getting adequate attention or provide the child with an alternative way of asking for attention.

I think many parents believe that children need to learn to deal with anger and frustration privately and view crying as an expression of weakness. I personally think it's a heck of a lot better than screaming, yelling and hitting.


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## GinkgoGirl (Jan 14, 2005)

My Japanese mother used to tell me this as a child. It made me supress alot of my emotions.

I believe it was cultural because public displays of emotion were disapproved of in Japan. (My mom grew up in the 40's & 50's so things could of changed since then).

Liz


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## kitty waltz (Mar 23, 2005)

Ive even seen this in parents of toddlers. From what Ive seen, the parent feels embarrassed and doesnt want to deal with the situation. I try to empathize with the child when I see this happening. Sometimes Ive had to be sneaky about it tho. lol


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I see that all the time, I've even had people say it to my 1 year old DS! It infuriates me.

I am one of those that says "It's okay." but I guess I mean it in more of a "It's okay, mama is right here to help you." way rather than a "You shouldn't be crying because you're fine" way. kwim?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

In one of my many less than perfect GD moments with DS, I have said this too.







: I can tell you for me I said during "one of those days". I think I was exhausted, DS was exhausted and the behavior issues were just escalating. I don't think I had much patience left by the time that little gem popped out. But I remember feeling something along the lines of utter and complete frustration and like . . . "OMG I don't think I can handle another second of outburst or I am going to crack" . . . kind of a mood. If that helps understand "why" the moms might have said that?

Thanks for your post though - reading the replies has really made me think about the implications for "emotion suppressing" to the child? I never thought of it that way - lilke its teaching them that its not OK to experience that emotion? The PPs are absolutely right - that is a horrible message to the poor DC who receive that command - especially if its common refrain?


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

My mom was told this as a child so instead she told me, "Cry softly, honey," as she held me. I have used this with my dd...the screeching can get to ya, yk, but they still need to cry. I have also used, "You will feel better soon," as I comfort her. I appreciate these b/c it's still hard for me not to say, "Don't cry."


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## rgarlough (Jul 18, 2002)

Thanks for the 'cry softly' suggestion







My ds is very sensitive and he needs to cry to vent his feelings until he can verbalize better. I think I'll try this...

My dh tells ds not to cry any chance he gets... I finally told him last night that ds NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO VERBALIZE his feelings NOT stuff them.







: Then dh says "Mason, you need to tell mom and dad your feelings when you're upset, not cry." At least it was a step... What's the problem with crying?


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

I think at least some anti-crying people view crying as both weak and manipulative (like you're doing it to get sympathy). I remember that being the case at school - teachers would yell at you for doing something and then yell at you for crying when they yelled at you.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TripMom*
In one of my many less than perfect GD moments with DS, I have said this too.







: I can tell you for me I said during "one of those days". I think I was exhausted, DS was exhausted and the behavior issues were just escalating. I don't think I had much patience left by the time that little gem popped out. But I remember feeling something along the lines of utter and complete frustration and like . . . "OMG I don't think I can handle another second of outburst or I am going to crack" . . . kind of a mood. If that helps understand "why" the moms might have said that?

sigh- me too. And I hate it.
I've been big on "if ds is crying, there's a REASON that's worth crying" and even told dp that I don't think its right to tell kids to "stop crying" or that "you're alright. It's no big deal."
But, a few times, when the crying/fussing has gone on ALL day, it pops out usually "would you just stop!?". Maybe partly because I want him to calm down and *communicate with me* so we can work on fixing whatever's wrong. But I suspect its mostly because I feel like I might go crazy if I don't get a moment's peace.
It doesn't make him stop crying, it makes him cry more. And the WORST part, is that I'm noticing him trying to stifle his cries other times, and its enough to make my heart break









PLEASE don't bash me for that. I know its wrong, and I've made a new resolution to be very careful about what I say and how I say it.

Anyways, just sharing to add to the "maybe those moms rarely do this and feel horrible about it" perspective.


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

I've done it. Not proud of it. What I am proud of is my child - he responded, "But, Mama! I have to cry to get the sad out!". I was quickly humbled, said, "You're right, baby. You can cry as long as you need to feel better." But, I also have added in certain instances (like, uh, one of those long whiney days), "Your loud crying is hurting my ears. You can cry more softly or you can cry in your room."

I am pro-crying in general, though. Heck, I model it on a pretty regular basis.


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## avendesora (Sep 23, 2004)

To play devil's advocate...

My sister was such a drama queen when she was little. The moment my mom asked her to do anything (set the table, etc.), my sister would 'accidentally' hurt herself - stub her toe, or something very mild like that. She would burst into tears, and my mom would comfort her and ignore whatever chore wasn't being done. It drove me absolutely bonkers. It was quite clear from the tone of her crying that it was entirely fake. I had heard her cry for real, and that wasn't it. In that situation, if I were the parent, I would have said, "I'm sorry you got hurt, but it's still possible to set the table with a stubbed toe." and leave it at that.

My point - you never know the whole story when watching someone else parent. You don't know what the child's patterns are. While generally, yes, it's not cool to say "Do not cry," I'd try to withhold judgement unless you really know what's going on.

Another story: I saw a little boy fall off a jungle gym, but not badly. He cried on his mother's lap for a while, and then his crying turned to whimpering. The mom said to him, "You're welcome to be done crying now. I would like you to stop crying if you're going to stay on my lap. If you'd like to continue crying, you can do that somewhere else." He quickly cheered up, and stayed on his mom's lap for another while. After he had gone back to playing, the mom told me that he sometimes thinks that he has to stay sad in order to stay with her, and she's trying to help change that pattern. She's tried inviting him to stay on his lap when he's not sad, but mostly he'd rather play. I thought that was interesting.

Sorry to be so long winded.

Aven


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

How sad








I like to tell dd that it is perfectly okay to cry when you are hurt. But that she has a choice. She can cry if she wants to, or not. I do tell her that hysterical crying-where I feel she is acting irrationally(tantrum type fits) is not okay. That she can learn to control her emotions and display them in a healthy way,a dn we can talk about it. I am not perfect in this, we are all learnign. I do have to be very discerning though. When she gets scared about something, she gets REALLY scared.And cries uncontrollably.(Very sensitive, spirited)So in those times, I tell her tht it is perfectly okay and normal to be scared, but that she doesn't have to be scared when something is scary. She can choose not to be if she wants.

I was pretty much told to stuff my emotions and they were seen as bad, when I was a child. I cried anyway-and felt guilty and condemned the whole time.I hope it won't be that way for dd.


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## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

My father yelled harder when I cried. I still have issues around crying. I could never tell my dd not to cry. I hold her until she is done. Telling them not to cry is telling them not to feel.

I'm not justifying this in any way but I'm wondering how the Mom's parents dealt with her tears.

So sad


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## sahm1 (Aug 14, 2004)

I hear this all time from parents.
I 've slipped and said myself, sometimes it is so easy to forget how important the little things are to children


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

"I'll give you something to cry about!" --> standard response to crying from either of my parents

I keep that in mind when DD 18mos cries. I soothe her but try so hard not to say "don't cry". I've mostly been using "oh, you must be frustrated, I can understand why you are crying" or "that looks like it hurt, it's okay to cry when you are hurt".

Hopefully she will not remember those words with a cringe like I do my parents' words.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I had a father much like ChinaKat. For him, crying was a display of weakness and, by gohs, HIS kids weren't ever going to be weak.

On the other hand... For older children, I'm not sure that crying is really a "healthy way" to show emotions. Toddlers, preschoolers, sure. But for kids in elementary school, surely words would be a better option? And kids of that age are frequently teased or bullied by their peers if they are "cry babies", so I think there might be value in teaching/encouraging more constructive ways of dealing with disappointment and frustration (not physical hurt -- that's a different story).

Which isn' to say what these mothers were doing is appropriate or not. I feel that the PP that pointed out that it is best not to judge if you don't know the whole story was on the money about actually judging the situation.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

I've thought this







When my ds started playing sports at the school I was so nervous that he'd get frustrated or hurt and cry. As far as I'm concerned, its fine, but I'd seen other kids cry and get teased. I didn't want to tell him that, but I didn't want him to go through it either.

Last night I saw something disturbing. We were at wrestling and a little boy got smacked right in the face with some other kid's head. Injuries don't happen often here (thank God!), and this kid wasn't bleeding or anything, but he HURT. He started crying and went over to his grandpa, who gladly welcomed him on his lap and held him until he stopped crying and felt like playing again. Meanwhile, other parents were giving dirty looks and commenting about it in a really negative way, like they thought he should have told him to stop being a baby and get back on the mat. I am sorry, but if it was my ds, I'd hold him and I'd let him cry. I'd even leave if he wanted to. I can't imagine anyone doing anything else! BTW, these were K and 1st graders.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:

On the other hand... For older children, I'm not sure that crying is really a "healthy way" to show emotions. Toddlers, preschoolers, sure. But for kids in elementary school, surely words would be a better option? And kids of that age are frequently teased or bullied by their peers if they are "cry babies", so I think there might be value in teaching/encouraging more constructive ways of dealing with disappointment and frustration (not physical hurt -- that's a different story).
I understand what you're saying here, but sometimes I get soooo frustrated that I just want to cry. If I am around poeple that I am not close to (non-family,) I will do my best to go to a private place to avoid making others feel uncomfortable. Sometimes the bathroom is a good place to be alone for a few minutes to calm down. It can be very difficult in that moment of frustration or upset to suppress that very strong urge to cry. I agree that words can be a better option, but sometimes that's just not feasible.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

There is a beautiful quote of Mark Twain's that I try so hard to keep in mind:

Quote:

Nothing that grieves us can be called little: by the eternal laws of proportion a child's loss of a doll and a king's loss of a crown are events of the same size.
I recently heard a mother say to one of her two boys when he fell down, "Stop crying RIGHT NOW--you sound like a girl."

I really wanted to cry about this sentiment


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

I had a similar initial reaction, and then I just had to laugh (gently) about the "My little sister was such a drama queen" -- "It was so obvious" -- "If I were the parent" post. I used to think things like this about my younger, more emotion-displaying siblings too, from very young well into my adulthood. It finally (finally!) occurred to me that maybe there were issues, circumstances, personality traits that I as a child didn't actually fully understand, and that my parents may in fact have been well aware of their younger children's "dramatic" tendencies and were dealing with it in the way they hoped would work for those children.

They grew up to do their chores voluntarily, too.









Oh, I too have occasionally begged/ordered about fussing. And hated myself afterward, and have, thank goodness, managed to refrain for many months.


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat*
"I'll give you something to cry about!" --> standard response to crying from either of my parents


OMG, me too!
If you want to cry, I'll give you something to cry about!, just seconds before she stood up to go get the wooden spoon.

I find myself saying, Ohh, honey it's okay, don't cry, Mama's here.
in a soothing voice, but I agree, I shouldn't.

The other night I was watching a show and started crying. She looked at me with such concern, rubbed my cheek and said in the same voce, OHHH, Mama, it's okay, it's okay, don't cry, Hailey's here!

I started to laugh and she said "ALLLLL Better!" LOL
I really have to watch what I say around this kid! LOL


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

We sometimes tell ds1 to stop crying, but that's usually only after he's been wailing at the top of his lungs for 5 or 10 minutes after we've done something evil like turning off the tv. And before that point I/we have empatized and given him the options of cuddling and/or going to another room and the sound is starting to give dh a headache. By that point, we've run out of other ideas.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Canadiyank, I've tried your "Cry softly!" technique because I'd heard you talk about it before. Unfortunately, my dd shouted, "No!" and started crying even harder.









I've also told my dd to "Stop crying right now!"







This was at night after I'd just spent 45 minutes trying to get her brother back to sleep and she woke up wailing and I didn't want her to wake hip up again. I felt so awful, that when she woke up for reassurance, probably after a bad dream, she just got scolded.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Canadiyank, I've tried your "Cry softly!" technique because I'd heard you talk about it before. Unfortunately, my dd shouted, "No!" and started crying even harder.



















Yes, provoking to additional decibel levels is definitely not the intended outcome.









If she's crying b/c she's hurt, I'll hug and pat and say "Cry softly, honey" or "You'll feel better soon." If she angry or upset I try to ID the feeling and give her scripts, "You're mad b/c baby grabbed your toy. Say, 'stop' and try handing her a different one." "You're disappointed b/c..." If she says, "No!" then I'll try a different feeling, usually it's pretty obvious. If she just wants to be mad for a bit, that's fine, too. If I really can't handle the screeching I ask her to lay down on her bed (her "cuddle corner") until she calms down.

Elizabeth Crary's book, "Dealing With Disappointment" has many good ideas in it. I STILL haven't finished it, but it talks about different ways we can help our children (and ourselves) deal with frustration, anger, disappointment, etc., which is, of course, a different thing entirely from pain tears.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Thank you for the book suggestion, canadiyank. I have a very easily upset/sensitive elementary-aged child. Sometimes I worry about her emotional resiliency and being able to socialize with other children who aren't as sensitive, yk? There are a lot of tears shed on the playground sometimes, and it would be nice to give her some additional tools...


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

I agree that many see crying as a sign of weakness or manipulation. I cry when I am really angry. I cried at work once and hated myself for it afterward.

I think one reason some parents tell their kids not to cry is because it makes them uncomfortable. Your child is upset, it is not an upset you can fix, which is discomforting, and then they compound it with crying, which is discomforting. It just adds up. I have said, "Please, don't cry" to my son on a few occasions and realized it wasn't the crying that I really wanted to stop, it was whatever was breaking his little heart.

I, too, picked up 'cry softly' on this board (thank you, gentle mama), and I like "You'll feel better soon" too!


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## MPsSweetie (Jan 29, 2006)

Wow, I wish I had found this board earlier.
I too am guilty of saying this to Amethyst, then I feel like a horrible mother for days. I hate it because I too am a VERY sensitive person, and I cry at everything.
But, just like today for example. I went in the bathroom, and after listening to her try to bust it down for 2-3 minutes, I told her to go play. O.M.G. She started screaming her head off!!! I was a very mad mama after that and I told her not to cry and worse. She cries so much that all the kids at school call her a cry baby, THEN she comes home and cries because they called her a cry baby!! What do I do? It gets so difficult sometime! AHHHH!!!


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## kelly1827 (Mar 17, 2004)

Our almost 5yo has become a cry-a-holic in the last few months. We have tried encouraging her to explain her feelings, tried distracting her with silliness, tried giving her space to let it out, but I can empathize with the mom from the first post who was firm and direct with her child about crying because sometimes if we don't intervene dd will just wind herself _up_ instead of down, esp. with empathetic soothing. She is by nature a very fanciful and dramatic child, but this pattern she's built herself lately is making us all miserable! She is very articulate and can talk your head off, but when she is frustrated or angry it all goes out the window. Dh and I are loathe to do the whole "cry in your room" thing, because to us it suggests emotion is innappropriate. We try giving her a framework for crying, "Are you injured? Are you scared? Are you very sad? If not, then you should use your words to explain your feelings so we can help you get what you want/need". So far, no results, but I'm out of ideas so we'll keep trying this.
Please don't think I agree with ordering your child to stop crying, then ignoring them, I'm just saying I can empathize with mom's feeling the need to stop a tantrum in it's tracks before it gets much worse....


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I really like the "cry softly" idea!

I will also say that with my son he has different cries. When he is hurt (physically or emotionally) I completely understand him crying and I am supportive and nurturing.

But other times he is exhausted and "in a mood" and will cry over every tiny little thing and it is a loud, whiney, dramatic, fake cry and I will be honest and say that I don't have a lot of patience for that.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kelly1827*
tried giving her space to let it out,

Have you tried joining and/or not joining her in this space? Since empathy seems to ramp her up, perhaps bring a magazine with her to the spot and read (yeah, right, I know!) saying something like, "If you need a hug to help you calm down, I'm right here," but just being present.

Or, ask her if she wants you in the space. My dd usually doesn't, and she'll often run to her room (next room over from our living space, so not isolated or far away) to calm down. I completely understand that, since I need to be by myself to calm down.

I've recently learned, however, that some kids, even when they seem to want to be alone, really want to desperately reconnect. I have a friend who follows her dd and is simply available for hugs etc. when her dd initiates.

The "Dealing With Disappointment" book is filled with ideas, too. It suggests that a child has one tool for every year of age - I think that is important, since so many times we focus on one way of trying to help them to calm down, kwim? But at 4-5 yo they really need 4-5 "tools." http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...Fencoding=UTF8

I also wanted to mention (to nobody in particular, was just thinking perhaps I wasn't clear) that when I say, "Cry softly," that it is within the context of comforting her, usually on my lap with her head on my shoulder (where loud crying is hard on the ears, kwim), not like I'm standing near her yelling, "Cry softly!" which would likely be very invalidating and virtually the same as telling her to stop, IMO.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *canadiyank*
I also wanted to mention (to nobody in particular, was just thinking perhaps I wasn't clear) that when I say, "Cry softly," that it is within the context of comforting her, usually on my lap with her head on my shoulder (where loud crying is hard on the ears, kwim), not like I'm standing near her yelling, "Cry softly!" which would likely be very invalidating and virtually the same as telling her to stop, IMO.

Canadiyank, I think I understood this! That's how I tried it, my dd had hit her head very hard when she fell out of her chair during dinner, and she was embarrassed, hurt, and scared. She was crying so hard I was pretty sure it was making it worse, as the blood was just rushing to her head and I was a little bit afraid she was going to hyperventilate. So as I was comforting her I said very softly into her neck, "Cry gently, sweetie, cry softly!" And then she stopped briefly, pulled away so she could see me, and screamed, "No!" I almost laughed.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
Canadiyank, I think I understood this!

Oh sure, I wasn't meaning you or anyone else "did it wrong" and that's why it didn't work - doesn't even work for my kids all the time! - I was just pointing out that the context of those words makes all the difference, yk. It dawned on me it could sound very disrespectful if just the words were used and not the comforting aspect of it...









I just try to sub that in when I feel like saying, "Don't cry," and instead of "It's ok" I sub "You'll feel better soon." I'm not a naturally nurturing person (I want to kick and scream and run away, too, when they are screeching - comforting is unfortunately not an automatic response for me







) and so having some of these tools helps me be able to help them.


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## kelly1827 (Mar 17, 2004)

Thanks for the recommendation, Canadiyank, I'll see if any of my GDing friends have the book. We're at our wits ends with this crying at the drop of a hat thing, and although I know part of it's origin (she fights sleep and is chronically overtired, despite about 1000 different techniques/herbs/massages/etc we 've tried) it's starting to impact her life in ways _she_ doesn't like. Most notably, in her gymnastics class -- when she has a meltdown, the teachers try to help her calm down, but if she can't then they have to send her out of class (for everyone's safety) until she does. It's an awesome place, all the teaching is very GD oriented and age appropriate, and special needs children are often referred to this program because it's so supportive and low stress. She







loves







her teachers and doesn't like when she feels she's disappointed them, even though they in no way give her that impression(it's an open room so parents can watch and hear). Her main teacher even sat down with her outside of class after one session and tried to help her come up with a new way to calm herself. The teacher explained how some days she (the teacher) is grumpy and overtired too, but she reminds herself to "leave her grumpies behind the desk" and invited dd to do that next week if she felt tired and/or grumpy. We'll see how that works out. We've also suggested to dd that we think she's having these crying jags mostly because she's tired, that she take a nap before class to "recharge her batteries". She resisted the idea initially, but the second week in a row being brought out of class, when her other teacher asked her very gently, "What do you think is going on with you, hon?" she replied, "I guess Mama and Da are right -- I'm too tired".
Oh, and we have tried the "be present with her, but not intervene" thing, didn't seem to make a difference. It seemed to pi## her off more







.
Let's hope the book has some new ideas for us!


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

That does sound frustrating for everyone. Hopefully a little rest before hand will help her. Have you seen the NCSS for Toddlers/Preschoolers? We got a LOT of ideas out of this book and it's helped our bedtime/getting enough sleep etc. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...Fencoding=UTF8

My friend is currently reading this book, "Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving or Missing Sleep" and she highly recommends it. It is new from Mary Sheeda Kurcinka (she wrote "Raising Your Spirited Child"): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...lance&n=283155


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

My dd is very, very, very emotional. I am a pretty laid-back mom in a lot of respects and am all about feeling, crying and expressing emotions. There are times when my dd's choice of expression of her emotions is more about controlling the situation than about her feelings. If I don't advocate for her to make a different choice or to choose not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, her black cloud will begin to follow her and rain, rain, rain on her world for hours. Sometimes she needs encouragement not to let things get to her, not to sweat the small stuff. I know my kid and know I am teaching her ways of being in the world, a world that will never go her way all the time and one where she has to learn to prioritize her emotional investments.

I do know that it's hard to know the full picture from one snapshot.

Jesse


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## BohoMama (Jun 26, 2003)

I read an article this summer comparing the Brits' reaction to the London bombing of last year with what they endured during WWII. How the loss of a few hundred lives last year was dealt with as extremely tragic and worthy of lots of memorialization, and how when during the war when a few hundred people were sometimes killed every day, people made light of it and carried on with their daily lives with a fierce determination not to let the danger and the sorrow get them down. There were photos of ladies selling the few products that had been salvaged from bombed-out shops, and of customers standing on sidewalks where the rubble had not yet been cleared and buying the stuff.

My point isn't about the worth of human lives and how many honors we owe to those who have been killed by acts of war or terror. It is that this article made me muse on the discourse of "emotion stuffing" that GD encourages parents not to do. I'm sure that all those Brits who joked their way through the Blitzkrieg and bought panties among the wreckage and partied their bums off every night of the week in underground bomb shelters had been told by their parents not to cry when they felt like it. I'm sure that some kind of emotional violence was done to them at the time. But yet - how can we not see these people as heroic? The author compared the older generation with the current one that scurried into hiding after the blasts. By teaching their offspring not to cry at childhood hurts and disappointments didn't the older generation parents give their offspring a mighty coping tool for when things got REALLY tough?

I also had (she is now deceased) a drama-queen sister who believed, into adulthood, in expressing one's emotions however one wants, and at whatever volume one feels like. She came to visit me in the Czech Republic and we got into words about something, and, feeling upset, she began wailing. On a tram filled with commuters. I told her that I understood that she was upset, but that she should have respect for the Czechs, who do not appreciate loud displays of emotion, and are tired after a long day of work, and that she should try to keep the volume down. Her response to me was that the was American and it was "her culture" to express herself loudly and that the Czechs should respect that!!!!!







She seemed to relish my embarrassment almost as much as she enjoyed chastising me and getting everyone to glare and mutter at us. I was ashamed at that moment not only of her, but also of being American because what she said had an element of truth to it. (Note: she died - years after this incident - with incredible poise: reconciled and at peace with the world and with herself. Everyone was moved and impressed by her spritual grace.)

I think that, as in almost everything, some common sense is needed in order to encourage a happy medium between the "I'll give you something to cry about!" school of child-rearing and an approach that encourages the drama queens of the world to victimize those around them with their raging emotions. Perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the category of "emotion stuffing" and give some serious thought to when and where it is appropriate to vent, how much, and with what degree of regard to those around us. We parents are not only raising individuals, but a generation and a culture, and we want it to be adapted to life's inevitable knocks, conflicts, and, sadly, to the occasional bombing.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Thanks everyone for the interesting musings. Now I have several possible explanations for what the moms may have been thinking. I do want to mention that these were not "snapshot" observations; I saw what had happened to motivate the girl's upset feelings in each case. It's true though that the moms know their daughters better than I do and may be aware of certain types of situations in which starting to cry will lead to many hours of sadness whereas not crying will resolve things more quickly.

I will say, though, that each of these girls has had times when her mom wasn't at the meeting and something made her cry, and my verbalizing the problem ("You're disappointed that your experiment didn't work and everyone else's did. You did exactly the same thing, but for some reason it didn't puff up. Not fair, is it? And there's not enough baking soda to try again! What a bummer!") seemed to help; the crying only lasted a few minutes. I know these girls well, and while they're both dramatic and one of them loves being the center of attention, neither is inclined to lengthy sulking. In fact, when one of them had a big disappointment at the end of the meeting, and at the next meeting I asked all the girls to brainstorm what we could do to make up for it, she was surprised, and one of the solutions she suggested was, "I could forget that it ever happened."


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

Envirobecca,

I think it's great you were able to diffuse the girls through conversation. Often a stranger or a friend will be more effective than when ol' mom is around in diffusing the drama shows. In my experience, sometimes kids save their biggest emotions for parents, who are so tied into the history of the kid that both parent and kid struggle. An outsider will often have a quicker effect because the pattern of behavior isn't established, kwim?

jesse


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## Animama (Oct 22, 2005)

This is an interesting thread.

Just on another tangent, I always tell my daughter that it's okay to cry, it helps get the bad feelings out. But lately, she's been telling me (while crying) that she doesn't want to cry because it MAKES her feel bad. She tries to stop and smile through it, and it's so sad looking! I just never expected that reaction out of her; she's not quite 3.

I guess I'll just keep reiterating that it's okay to cry when she IS crying. I'm not sure where this came from, all of a sudden. She's always throwing a wrench into the mix to throw me off.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

EnviroBecca, is your signature out of date?
















*****
I"m a very sensitive person, always have been. I have always been a cry-er.

And all the sentiments of wanting to show kids how to better express feelings for fear of schoolyard children calling him/her "crybaby" makes me, well, makes me want to cry! And get angry. And vomit.

To teach a child to fear BULLIES just boggles my mind. Bullies should be pointed out to principals, should be taught others ways to deal with their peers. And children who call other children names like "crybaby" are, indeed, bulllies.

And it's just a cruddy thing to do, to urge your child to not cry, because some jerk of a kid might make fun of them.







The crying child is NOT the problem in those situations.







:

The "cry softly" thing would sooooo not have worked for me. I have to feel my feelings and really express them, or they last and last. I can keep them at bay until a better time, but that's something I have learned, not that has been taught to me. Sometimes you just gotta wail, man.

Tears aren't something we can always help. Tears don't always mean we're sad. I will often start crying if I'm feeling angry or thwarted, but people react like I'm sad, and it makes it all so much worse.

The London thing...boy there is just such a difference between a stated war vs a random act of terrorism...during wartime the people who could, left London. The people who couldn't stayed, and tried to get on as best they could. But terror, terrorism is different. At least in a warzone you KNOW how much danger you're in. You know to listen for the bombers and get to a blacked-out place. But terrorism...it could happen right.now. No warning. It's a whole different thing, and I can't compare the way people react to terrorism vs the way they react to a true, stated war, not at all.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
And it's just a cruddy thing to do, to urge your child to not cry, because some jerk of a kid might make fun of them.








The crying child is NOT the problem in those situations.







:

Very true.

I think the focus of this thread has changed quite a bit. But, like the OP pointed out, we are try to find ways to help the kids without shutting them down, and without being hostage. I think that can be done respectfully and we are brainstorming ideas to help that.

That way you were/have been treated was not respectful. Perhaps as someone who is a sensitive adult and was a sensitve child you can help us help our children and aquaintances.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
The "cry softly" thing would sooooo not have worked for me.

And it hasn't worked for others on this thread. I'm sorry if this technique came across as disrespectful to you - I am not advocating it for everyone and every situation. It is simply another tool to try.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I can keep them at bay until a better time, but that's something I have learned, not that has been taught to me.

What other things have helped you? Do you think keeping the feelings at bay until later is effective? How about reflecting your feelings? Leaving you alone? Comforting?

I hope this is not coming across as snarky - I'm truly curious. I know what works for *me* but that obviously isn't always what my kids (or others on this thread) need, so I am genuinely wanting to learn new things to help my kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I will often start crying if I'm feeling angry or thwarted, but people react like I'm sad, and it makes it all so much worse.

What kind of things would help in this situation instead of exacerbating it?


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## coleslaw (Nov 11, 2002)

I always knew when I was growing up that crying wasn't too acceptable by my parents, but it really became clear last May.

I was on the phone with my dd, who was 4.5 then, talking to her from the hospital after she found out that her baby sister had died (a stillborn). My parents were home with her while my dh and I had to stay the night so that I could deliver her. She not only found out her sister had died, but that she was going to be away from me for the first night of her life. She called me crying, of course, which I completely understood (understatement!). In the background I hear my father tell her that "No crying Katie. We are going to be brave, right, for Mommy and Daddy?" I started talking firmly to Katie right then telling her that she can cry as much as she wants. I think I even said "Don't listen to Grandpa." I know my Dad was trying to keep me from hurting even more by hearing her be upset, but man, come on. In the aftermath, it has really hit home how emotions were treated in our family. I am working on making it different in my house.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

canadiyank, I think just realizing that tears have *many* reasons can help. It's always SO embarrassing, to tear up b/c of frustration...having those around realize that and not react like "oh you poor thing" is always nice.









This hasn't really happened to me since I stopped dealing with strangers (i.e. working outside the house for money), but I do recall it happened at ridiculously old ages (I quit my last job at 33) at various jobs.









The waiting until later thing was not anything I remember doing as a child, but as an older person. It works b/c it's just not seemly for an adult to cry for silly reasons. Actually, sadly, in this society people don't like to see crying from anyone for any reason. Just Saturday was the 6 year anniversary of my beloved mom's sudden death, and I spent the week leading to it in tears. If I'd gone out to see almost any of my real life "friends", they would have *again* insisted that crying isn't normal and I should medicate myself.







:

I found myself remembering elementary school. It's hard enough being sensitive during that time, without worrying that the parents might sort of in a way show more allegiance to the teasers than to the teased.







I remember being late from recess for some real, true reason. Something about the bathroom, I think? Well that's the excuse all the liars in the class always used, and I got my name on the board b/c of it. First time for that, and it wasn't justified. I started crying. Luckily the teacher knew me and realized at that moment that I wasn't a usual liar, and she took my name off the board. It was nice to have a sympathizer, someone who believed me.

Yes, the thread veers.









I think that people telling other people not to cry stems more from their *own* sense of embarrassment and/or sadness than from much of anything else. Or perhaps the feeling that seeing someone cry hurts us, and we don't want anyone to hurt, and we don't want to hurt b/c someone else is hurt. DH and I went through a really rough time, and one of my friend's husbands (who is now her ex) made her come see me (worked out for me, actually) rather than let me go stay up there, because he absolutely HATED seeing me cry (or anyone). He wanted me to stop b/c of the way it made HIM feel.

So the women snarling at their girls to not cry were probably thinking of themselves in that moment, not wanting to be the mothers of "crybabies", not wanting to have to deal with it.

I know that's what is behind it when I go through all sorts of half-statements as my son is crying...I don't want to hurt b/c he's crying, so I don't want him to cry. And I'll say all that, if I slip and say "oh honey don't cry" while I'm comforting him, I talk a lot to him.







I remember when he slipped forward in a highchair and lost a brand new tooth, he was screaming and crying and I just wanted to replay the moment so there was no need to cry...I felt bad for him and I felt bad for me b/c it hurt me that he was in so much pain and shock and fear...I wanted to go back and take him out of the highchair before it happened (we were about to, when our food arrived at the table and we got distracted), take away the reason for the pain.

I think that some people don't have thoughts like that on a regular basis (my friends who all had kids years before certainly never said anything like it). And I don't think people tend to communicate those things, especially not to their kids. I think many people don't want their kids to see that they ever question themselves, that they never do anything wrong...so they won't have a convo starting with "don't cry" and then taking back that statement.









I totally lost my train of thought there, sorry.
















gotta go make dinner.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

EnviroBecca, is your signature out of date?
Not very...I mean, he's been one year old for a couple of months now, but I'm still marveling over it....







Is that what you meant, or is there something else I'm not seeing?

On topic: I heard myself say to EnviroBaby when he was howling about being prevented from running around with his toothbrush in his mouth, "I hear that you are angry. Please don't scream into my ear. Tell me quietly." To me that's very different from, "Do. Not. Cry." but those moms' motivation may have been similar...and maybe they know from experience that using fewer and firmer words is more effective in this type of situation.

At last week's meeting, another girl (not one previously mentioned) began crying because her best friend who usually comes over to her house after the meeting was not able to come that time. Her friend was extremely sweet about it, hugging her and stroking her hair and saying gently, "I know; I'm disappointed too."







Both moms told her they were sorry about that night, explained why it couldn't happen, and reminded her of plans to play together on Saturday. Nonetheless, she was inconsolable, crying nonstop for about 20 minutes and still crying as she and her mom walked away. This week I asked her mom how that turned out. She said she could tell by the sound and reduced tears that her daughter had gone from really crying to making sobbing sounds on purpose, and she said, "I know you are sad. That's enough crying." and her daughter stopped gradually within a few minutes. That sounds okay to me. I mean, she'd had ample opportunity to express her feelings before being told to stop.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
So the women snarling at their girls to not cry were probably thinking of themselves in that moment, not wanting to be the mothers of "crybabies", not wanting to have to deal with it.

We weren't there, we didn't hear the whole situation. Even the OP who was there may not have all of the history or may not have included it in her post. And yet you can come to such a conclusion? There may be 100 reasons the mothers responded as they did. This MAY be it and may not have been. To say that it was seems unnecessarily harsh to me.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Found this article on the Discipline Without Damage site...it's such a great site, look around a bit: http://dwd.com/articles/09_05.asp


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

Kai has a real cry and a fake cry. The fake cry is obvious....and that's when I have no problem telling him not to cry.
When he cries just because he thinks it will change the situation, for example when I tell him "no"...I tell him doesn't *need* to cry, and that if feels the need to cry, he can go in his room and let it out (I don't always need or want to hear it)
When he's hurt in any way and crying, I always comfort him and tell him it's ok and I shhhhhh him to calm him down....while cuddling him close of course.
The example of those girl scouts...breaks my heart. My mother *always* said, "Shut up or I'll give you something to cry about"...even if I was crying after she just wailed on me with a wooden spoon.


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## BohoMama (Jun 26, 2003)

Ahhh, the fake cry. We have that too. Real crying is usually triggered by physical hurt, unpleasant surprises (he thinks that something will be possible, and then it is either impossible or forbidden), or sometimes by remorse or sympathy. (He pinches the baby, she cries, he cries.) The fake cry for us, as for Frenchie's son, is usually a reaction to hearing that something that Andrej wants (or doesn't want), and knows is impossible, but he would still like to change the facts. (examples: sweets are not for lunch, we do not ever buy candy or toys at the grocery store, we are not going to acquire a tv, if we walk halfway to the neighbor's house we are not turning around to go home, etc. These issues come up repeatedly, though not TOO often). When Andrej's cry is real, his little face crumples, his eyes are flooded in tears, his nose runs, and he runs or falls into my arms. When it is fake, he takes an oppositional stance with legs apart, looks right at me through minimal tears, and howls out his demands amidst "WAAAH-HAAAA, WOOO-HOOOO!"

I still maintain that we should teach children that this kind of crying is socially undesirable. Perhaps some of it is inevitable, as the child really may get his or her hopes up over the "impossible" dream. As the Discipline Without Damage link indicates, one of the main goals of parenting is building a healthy "EQ." However, what they do not mention is that part of the big picture of "EQ" is recognizing the effects of one's behavior on others. Fake crying (the crying of "drama queens," as they've been called in other posts) is an attempt at hijacking the sympathy of listeners who would most likely be willing to help a "real" cryer. However, when this tactic is used too often, one possible result is as in the fable about the little boy who cried wolf. (Yes, I know, some people are so super-sensitive that they respond with TLC to any child crying, no matter how fake, but the child is likely to meet a lot of other people who have limits to their patience, and who have other things or other kids that they need to attend to.) The other thing is when the fake cryer realizes that the impossible request and the crying won't get them what they want, they sometimes continue the noise as a type of revenge, because they cannot help but notice, even if adults are tactful, that it is unpleasant. But what they may not be counting on is that it is bound to generate resentment, and if it happens a lot, a judgment on the child's character. As well as seeing this behavior sometimes crop up in my son, I witnessed it in my sister all through our childhood (and she even admitted it and recommended the tactic to me once or twice!) Perhaps all children don't do it, but I really think that there are times when a parent realizes that their child is making a public scene in order to try and gain undeserved advantages or to distress their companions. I wasn't there when the girl scout incident happened, and therefore do not feel qualified to judge those mothers, but I think most parents know the difference between the real and the fake cry. Let's hope that those mothers were helping their daughters understand that their own emotions should be expressed, but that those of others should not be artificially manipulated.


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