# 4 year olds in strollers



## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

see post #28.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

I can't imagine considering a preschooler "lazy." Maybe the parents have tons they need to get done on foot and the kids are tired. Is there a reason it bothers you? Sure as heck beats lugging a giant 4 year old around on one's back along with all of the groceries and errands and so forth.


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## TypingMJ (Nov 10, 2005)

I've been noticing that a lot lately too, even with kids who look like they're 7 - 8 years old. Most of the time they're with a younger (stroller aged) sibling that's being carried. My guess is the older kid gets a little jealous and takes a turn in the stroller now and then.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

3 and 4 year olds are fast and hard to corral. Some more than others. My daughter is usually walking, or sometimes riding on my back, but in many situations a stroller is the most convenient and practical option.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Sometimes my almost 4 year old rides. Not usually at the mall or any place like that, though. (I try not to stay at the mall long enough to "need" one!). It's more likley at the zoo or if she gets tired on a long walk. We have a double stroller and sometimes my 18 month old rides (if it's a short walk and doesn't seem worth getting him on my back in the Ergo) and sometimes she'll want to hop in, too. I would also say. . .she's not the most graceful child, so if she's having a snack or a drink and we want to keep moving, I'd prefer to have her riding. She takes a lot of falls, so I want all her focus on walking. She walks and runs plenty, so ocaisionally wanting to ride isn't a big deal for me. I figure that i would probably still be wearing her sometimes if I didn't have my 18 month old (he gets priority mom riding time), so letting her ride doesn't seem much different to me.


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## marnie (Jul 13, 2004)

you never know. we live in the city and have no car. my now 4 year old daughter goes to preschool and it's a 20 minute walk. while she can walk to school easily, she is often tired after a day at school, especially if we go to the playground afterwards.

early in my pregnancy with #2 i fell while carrying my then 3.5 year old on my back. though she wasn't hurt (i fell forward) and i was barely hurt (scraped knees) she got freaked and didn't want me carrying her any more. she started riding her scooter to school so that i could pull her home on it if she was tired, but when it got snowy, i pulled out the old stroller she hasn't used for 2 years and we used that for a few weeks.

we don't have a mall nearby, but if we were to have to go there after school some day, especially when i was pregnant or now that i'm carrying my newborn i can imagine that a stroller would be one of our options. i don't have a stroller fit for a newborn so i couldn't carry the 4 year old and push the newborn - it'd have to be the other way around.

I don't think my daughter is lazy. she can easily walk for ages and ages. but i don't think it's right for me to force her to walk when she's genuinely tired - especially if we were to be at the mall running what i assume to be my errands, not hers.


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## gret the great (Nov 26, 2001)

My 4 year old usually walks, but she has little legs so I let her ride sometimes. generally when we walk to her brother's bus stop. She wouldn't be up for more than 10 minutes in it though! My toddler will not go in a stroller. Bloody Murder! She recently has been saying all done back pack when I grab the ergo. The girls wants to run!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
they all look like healthy kids who can walk.

I'd also like to ask you to rethink your perspective on this. I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I also have a 6 year old who you might sometimes find me pushing. He has problems with sensory integration, but from looking at him, you likely would know he had any issues (unless you saw him in the middle of a sensory overload meltdown, in which case you might think he was a brat and I was a bad mom







). Anyhow, sometimes riding is a calming force for him, just like wearing him was when he was younger. All special needs aren't visible ones.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

My 3 yo walks very slow, and then tends to wander because she is curious about everything.. If I have lots of time, then she'll walk with me. But if I'm in a hurry I'll put her in a stroller. I sometimes don't have an hour to walk around with her when I need to be in and out somewhere fast.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Maybe sometimes there really are good reasons for these things, perhaps it would be nice to hold back on the judgments.....

My just turned 6 yo likes to be in the stroller sometimes. I wore him exclusively until he was past 2, though he often walked for several km a day. Then his eating issues started and he became malnourished and weak. He also has low muscle tone and gross motor delays. Plus he is ASD and gets overstimulated by some situations and it exhausts him.

He is healthy and active and plays outside from dawn till dusk if he can. But often when we are out he is "too tired" to walk and needs to take a break. It works out well to take the stroller so he can do that if he needs to. My other 2 kids take turns too.

So no, we aren't trying to keep them contained and they certainly aren't lazy. But the oldest has a legitimate need to be in the stroller sometimes, the youngest is still too young to keep up and she gets tired of walking, and the middle child just likes to take a turn cause everyone else gets one.


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

I imagine I am much more likely to use a stroller when my child is 4 or 5 than now. Now, if he gets tired or cranky, I can carry/wear him. A 4-5 year old... not so much.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Why is this in babywearing, anyway?


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daisie125* 
I imagine I am much more likely to use a stroller when my child is 4 or 5 than now. Now, if he gets tired or cranky, I can carry/wear him. A 4-5 year old... not so much.









:
I walk nearly everywhere. Sometimes we go MILES. My dd rides in the stroller and also walks. My stroller holds my groceries.


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## Erin+babyAndrew (Jan 2, 2004)

My 3 yo LOVES to ride in the stroller. we have MBUS and it can hold 77 lbs so he can ride for a long while yet. He's a cancer survivor and is still recovering from treatment. Even if he weren't though, I'd still let him ride. I don't drive, and we walk everywhere. There is no way his little legs could walk as far as we do every day, as quickly as I like to go. It's laso nice to have the large backet to store our shopping or whatever. My 1yo is in the sling en route, but when we reach our destination my big boy often wants to walk, and then the baby can ride in the stroller. I'm not forcing anyone to sit there, it's always their choice and they do get the option to walk, ride or be worn.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

My 4 year old walks half the time we run errands and spends the other half in a stroller or cart when she either gets tired or rambunctious and needs to be contained with a snack. At 40 lbs, I could never carry her.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I loved putting my daughter in a stroller. It wasn't that she was lazy. It was more that *I* was lazy. If I was in the mall, I usually had someplace to be, and a little time to get there. So, I could get there faster if she was on wheels. She also had/has a tendancy to walk in people's way a lot. She never seemed to notice that there were other people in the mall besides us.

Also, we were usually there after dinner. So, her tolerance level was not as high as it would have been at say, three p.m.


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I can understand why people who walk really far push big kids in strollers, I guess. I pull my kids in a wagon when we go on walks/to the zoo. But really, I expect my 4 yr. old to be able to walk as much as I can, since he's healthy and I have a bad back (scoliosis, chronic pain). We need breaks about equally often and never walk more than a mile or two. We drive, bike, or ride the bus if we have to do more walking than either of us can manage. BUT if I had a good strong back, I imagine I'd be able to walk much further than he could.


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## CalebsMama05 (Nov 26, 2005)

I've been told many many times that my 2y/o looks like a 4y/o. I know that's not quite what you were saying but...what if they AREN'T that old?

at any rate I think I'll probably be using the stroller for quite awhile at the mall. my ds I believe has sensory issues and he is always running away. so yes stroller=containment. call me a bad mother for not wanting my ds to run away and get snatched.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

This post really suprised me. Whats wrong with strollers again???

I put my DD where ever it works for us. If I can wear her, I will, if I have a lot of walking to do, or bags to carry, I will bring the "heavy duty" stroller. Generally I just keep an umbrella stroller in my DH's trunk, and we go with how we and DD feel when we get where we're going.

I would rather "contain" my DD one way or another in a busy mall than have someone step on her. I don't mind her walking somewhere that there is room, but I can barely keep my 12 yr old from bumping into people when we walk together in a very crowded place like our mall is.

You can call it lazy. I call it practical.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

I'd like to add that I don't consider a three or four-year-old a "big kid."
I'm surprised that anyone would.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

:

perplexed why this is an issue ?

My 4 1/2 year old sometimes rides in a stroller. Sometimes because she wants to; she thinks it's fun. Sometimes because we have a bit less time on a particular day. She doesn't ride all that often, but I can't imagine feeling this is a bad thing if she wants to.

She gets plenty of exercise and we take lots of opportunities for exploratory walks.

OH, and completely agree with the PP who expressed surprise that anyone would consider a 3 or 4 year old a "big kid", or that the only reasons that a stroller would be used would be for containment or laziness. I just don't get that.


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

Moved to Parenting Issues


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## kkar (May 22, 2005)

My healthy 3 year old loves to walk...but gets tired by the time (usually) that we turn around and go home. She's way to heavy for me to carry.

She also has a sister a year younger who tires more quickly so when the younger one is in the stroller the other one wants to be too. With #3 on the way, I've anticipated that all three will want rides together occasionally - especially on long walks or outing to the zoo. We now have an attachment so that the stroller can hold all three if needed (though I plan on wearing the baby as much as possible too - we'll see how quickly I tire in the summer heat!)


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

my 4 year old will still sometimes ride in the stroller. she gets fatigued easily (low muscle tone) and once she's done, she's DONE. i used to wonder about *big* kids in strollers too, but you really never know what's going on in a situation.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

My 5 yo ds loves the stroller. It is very comforting to him to know he has a place where he can rest and relax. He is a very active child who hates to walk and needs naps/downtime in the afternoon. Frequently, I would take the stroller someplace for the sole purpose of getting home w/o having to carry a tired, cranky, 45 lb child for a mile or two.

It has been very annoying because for the past two or three years, I have gotten a comment "he should be pushing YOU" almost everytime we've gone out. We walk for ME to get exercise. Believe me, ds gets plenty! And it's nice to be able to walk at my own pace as well.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. they all look like healthy kids who can walk. not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?

Serious question for you, not being snarky. Would you think twice if the kid was riding in a wagon instead of a stroller?

I ask because a friend of mine says things constantly about a friend of hers who's four year old rides in the stroller. And yet, we both owned wagons for our kids and she didn't seem to think it was the same thing.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Well, while I will defend to the death anybody's wish/need to use a stroller at any time, I do think that stroller use is sorta automatic by some parents.... I can't tell you how many parents I see putting single kids into the stroller in the Y parking lot, and wheeling them 500 feet into the building for a class. Hey, if that's what they want to do, that's their business, but it seems like MORE work to me, loading a child in and out of a stroller instead of just having them walk.

I noticed that when DD started wanting to walk instead of being worn or pushed, she got a TON of attention from people. I couldn't figure it out at first, and then I realized that she was the ONLY kid her age walking anywhere, all the other children seemed to be in strollers. People constantly made comments like "hey, look at you go!" to her -- they seemed perpetually surprised to see her getting somewhere on her own two feet.

Frankly, it *is* the norm for most parents to push older children in strollers these days... but unless it's a very long walk for us, I certainly can't be bothered to load DD up.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

ok, makes sense. got it, thanks.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

We actually got a new stroller when dd was 4, which was invaluable when we went to Europe on holiday and spent long days exploring together. Oh, and we got a bike trailer that doubled as a stroller when she was 3. We used both of them all the way through her 4th year. They carried her, they carried groceries, and they were all-around terrific. Somewhere in there we sold our car, and we walked a lot exploring the city.

By the way, she's 5 now and walks miles at a grown-up pace without complaint.

For us, it was important to reduce our ecological footprint and get out a ton on foot around the city - honestly, sometimes we'd be out with friends who made a big deal out of insisting their child walk, and I'm not sure that it was that much more 'gentle' or 'attached' than a nice long walk checking out the neighborhood or a cool new city with a stroller with a picnic in the bottom...


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

I am anxiously waiting until my 19 m.o. can walk anywhere well enough that I don't have to use a stroller or a carrier or anything. As soon as he can, then he's walking on his own. I am tired of carriers and I'm tired of strollers. I agree with a pp and think people definitely overuse strollers just because that's the norm and because usually they are in a rush. It's just strange to me to see children who can walk well being pushed around in a stroller. It doesn't look as strange to see children being pulled in a wagon or on those little boards you attach to strollers. But that's me and I can appreciate that a child who looks perfectly okay may have other issues. To each his or her own. You gotta do you.


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I let my dd ride in the cars that our mall provides or rent a stroller when we have to take the bus. It is to save her energy for the long walk between the bus stop and our home while I carry the stuff home that we got at the mall.

I also think that if it is a choice between continually telling your child not to touch things and getting very frustrated and angry or having your child in the stroller that the stroller is the better option, especially when you are already having a bad day. Besides that, as a pp said you really can't tell how old the children are for sure, my dd was a very tall child and looked much older than she actually was.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I don't get why people think wagons are ok when a stroller isn't. A good stroller is more comfortable for both the child to ride and the mother to push. And it is safer because the mother can see her child in front of her while she walks. Pulling a wagon is not very safe if you have a child who might climb in and out w/o warning.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

OP- just curious, how old are your kids?


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Heh. Man, this is one of those things that reminds me of the judgments I used to make before I was a mom of a <insert age here>. I remember going to lunch where we had to stand in line for an hour, and my friend we went with, took out a stroller for her 4 year old. I thought she was NUTS. And that the kid was rottenly spoiled (well, she was, but that's a different post). I swore to myself that Henry would NEVER ride in a stroller at that age. Hmmm...let's see....standing in line for an hour in 100* heat with a 4 year old. What did I expect her to do? Just stand there on her little legs in the sun with us, or would I rather see her in a stroller with an umbrella to protect her from the sun and allow her to rest and not get whiny and tired?!







:

Of course, this is also coming from the same person who, when Henry was in a size 2 diaper, saw the size 5 and 6s and SWORE that he would NEVER be in diapers that big, because those parents were just LAZY.









One thing I've learned - each time I make a judgment about another parent, God manages to send me a lesson that is related to that situation and humbles me all over again.


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## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

Well, for one thing, I have more than one child to keep up with, yes. And no, I don't want anyone wandering off or touching anything. So I feel that it is safer for us.

The most important reason, however, is that my four year old has a mitochondrial disorder which causes fatigue and muscle pain. He cries when he has to walk very long at the mall, grocery store, or whatever. He says he tired, he says that his legs hurt.

We certainly don't use ours for every little thing, but we do also use it for doctors visits, because I don't want him touching or sitting on anything germy in the doctors office. BTW, he looks "normal".

All in all, I do think such a comment is pretty judgemental. Sure most of them can walk, but most children that age get bored, tired, try to wander off, or bump into shelves full of fragile things.

Sure, some parents are probably using them because they're lazy or "detached", but I really think that most use them for more practical reasons.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

First of all when my oldest was 2 he was the size of many 4-6 year olds. Heck I know 6 yo's who aren't as big as he was

Second-there may be issues that aren't visible to you

Also sometimes kids like to ride. I had a double stroller so there was an empty space and sometimes one of the older kids wanted to ride. Sometimes my kids walked, sometimes they rode. I was okay with both.

I have heard of the phenomenon of kid being buckled in for short rides and that sounds weird to me but maybe it's a parking lot/street thing. Maybe the parents feel safer with the kid contained? It seems like a big hassle to me-I'd find walking easier in those circumstances but <shrug>


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## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniedb* 

One thing I've learned - each time I make a judgment about another parent, God manages to send me a lesson that is related to that situation and humbles me all over again.









LOL. You are so right.







I know I've been guilty, too.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
j not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?

Often, if you have to preface something like that, you may want to reconsider the question.

I have a 5 year old. He is huge. When he was 2, he looked 4. Now that he's 5, he looks like a large 6 or 7 year old. He is a regular stroller rider, and I really get pissy at the comments we get somethimes. DS has arthritis and it is mostly focused in his knees. Also, it is a systemic disease that makes him more tired than the average 5 year old.

Even if he was not sick, I could not practically expect a child to walk as far as we do in a day. We do not drive (well, DH does). I take the bus into town, then rather than drag my giant double stroller on and off the bus I walk 10+ miles to do my errands, up and down large hills and across busy streets. I don't understand why parents look at DS pityingly when he rides in the stroller, as they strap their kids into the car seat to drive 3 blocks.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

My DD is 3, and at times I really wish I still had my stroller (damned airline lost it over a year ago







: ). Cause carrying gets tiring pretty quickly, and she doesn't want to be in a sling.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

My almost-four year old gets tired sometimes when he walks a lot. I prefer for him to walk, but I often have the stroller for my 21 month-old, and his older brother will ask to go in it. (They were both worn as babies, but yes we own two strollers). Should I just yell at him to walk and call him lazy?

I agree we're a stroller-dependent culture (I'm a big babywearer myself) but it's not like they don't have uses. I remember reading that generally, kids under three cannot be expected to follow a parent for any extended period (say through a mall, zoo, etc.) and I certainly found this to be true for my son. So I think three and four is still pretty young. Sometimes walking isn't practical when they're tired, or you do actually have to get somewhere fairly quickly.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

The topic of this thread is very strange, but I have a 1, 2, and 3 yrold. My 2 year old is as tall as my 3 year old, and there is no way I'd even think of having him follow me around the mall. And as far as the 3yo, to me it can be a safety issue too, with 2 other toddlers running around, I can just imagine turning my back for a split second and finding one gone. Now if I only had one to keep after, I imagine it'd be easy to look at others and say "why are they doing that? Its so easy to let them walk." . But seeing 4 year olds in strollers seems like an odd thing to be irked by.


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

I can see where a question like this comes from, because it does seem that in this generation many parents use strollers for their children at older ages than in previous generations, just as many children are in diapers longer. It is odd in this society how children are simultaneously pushed to grow up too fast (clothing, academic curriculums pushed to earlier grades, etc.) while being "babied" longer in other areas. When I was a child, it was rare to see a child older than 2 1/2 in a stroller. Among our friends and family members that used strollers, once the child walked fairly well, sometime during the second year, the stroller was no longer used. So it does always look odd to me when I see a larger child in a stroller, especially if there does not appear to be a younger sibling around, and I do tend to wonder if the child is ill or has an injury.

My godson is almost four, and he sometimes insist on riding in a stroller even when it is inconvenient for everyone else. Last week my 20 month old and I were with him and his mother, and he wanted to be pushed in the stroller, even though his mother was carrying heavy bags and could not do it. My toddler ended up pushing him - it was quite a sight.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Interesting that this topic should come up. Our DD will be 3 in August and our pediatrician recommends that parents drop the stroller at age 3. In any event, she walks most of the time anyway so should not be an issue but I was thinking that perhaps for the odd trip/vacation somewhere the stroller will be handy, even when she is 3 or 4 years old.

Other than that, I find the idea of pushing a normal (non-special needs) 4 year old in a stroller kind of strange. A 4-year old should be able to walk in the mall just fine without a stroller. And if the child gets tired, why not just sit down a while so that everyone (parents and child) can relax?

The only other good reason I can think of for having a stroller with a much older child is to carry the coats and bags.


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. they all look like healthy kids who can walk. not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?

my son is 3 and autistic...he looks perfectly normal though, he can't handle the # of people in a mall walking if it is on the busy side (mid-day in the middle of the week he does fine), he totally melts down and hits his head against a wall if he is walking and there are to many people. He however loves his stroller, even if there aren't many people he will usually walk for a few minutes than climb into the stroller for the rest of the trip, it makes him feel safe.

fwiw i slinged him (but he still got the choice between sling and stroller) till i got pregnant and thought that wearing a 28lb toddler didn't exactly fit my doctor's definition of "modified bedrest".


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Other than that, I find the idea of pushing a normal (non-special needs) 4 year old in a stroller kind of strange. A 4-year old should be able to walk in the mall just fine without a stroller. And if the child gets tired, why not just sit down a while so that everyone (parents and child) can relax?l

Well, you never know what that 4 yo was doing before getting to the mall. Although sometimes a break can give everyone a rest, other times it just prolongs having a tired cranky child out and it is better to get errands done quickly so the child's needs can be addressed more thouroughly.

My ds napped every afternoon until after he turned 5. If it was 1 o'clock and I wasn't heading towards home, it was going to be a problem without a stroller.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I don't think they had some of the snazzy strollers back then that they have now though. The variety as you probably know is pretty amazing, and some are pretty fancy and pricey. I don't use one regularly (well except for long walks around the neighborhood with ds2) but will always take our tandem to the zoo or place like that for when they get tired. Now I agree that maybe some people might hang to them way too long (like 6 or 8) but there's some pretty light, easy strollers for tired little ones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
I can see where a question like this comes from, because it does seem that in this generation many parents use strollers for their children at older ages than in previous generations, just as many children are in diapers longer. It is odd in this society how children are simultaneously pushed to grow up too fast (clothing, academic curriculums pushed to earlier grades, etc.) while being "babied" longer in other areas. When I was a child, it was rare to see a child older than 2 1/2 in a stroller. Among our friends and family members that used strollers, once the child walked fairly well, sometime during the second year, the stroller was no longer used. So it does always look odd to me when I see a larger child in a stroller, especially if there does not appear to be a younger sibling around, and I do tend to wonder if the child is ill or has an injury.

My godson is almost four, and he sometimes insist on riding in a stroller even when it is inconvenient for everyone else. Last week my 20 month old and I were with him and his mother, and he wanted to be pushed in the stroller, even though his mother was carrying heavy bags and could not do it. My toddler ended up pushing him - it was quite a sight.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

My 3 year old is 37 pounds and I'm pregnant, too heavy for me to carry. He would rather walk 99% of the time, but that once in a while when we are far from home (we walk everywhere) and he just is too tired to walk, I don't have any other options. The stroller spent a good 8 months in the garage un used, now it comes with us to carry stuff when we go for long walks or to carry him home if need be.

Some kids just like it. We went to Disney with friends who have a 4.5 year old and they brought their stroller. I thought they were nuts, we didn't bring ours for DS who wasn't 3 yet. But then again, their daughter asked to ride in the afternoon, our son wouldn't even let anyone carry him.


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## <<<Scarlet>>> (May 19, 2005)

long thread.. and I admit I didn't read the threads.
Yesterday we had a long day, several parks, egg hunts... at the end of the day my 4.5yo was insisting on being in the umbrella stroller I had. (I forgot my sling, and saw this thing in the back of my trunk and though... omg I still have this thing??







)
AND with 3 kids, and crowds of people, I happily had kid in the stoller half the time and watching the other two...
I even wished I had one of those kids leashes







:


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yellowpansy* 
My 4 year old walks half the time we run errands and spends the other half in a stroller or cart when she either gets tired or rambunctious and needs to be contained with a snack. At 40 lbs, I could never carry her.

Yes to this. I have my ds in a sling and dd in a stroller when we go to the mall, which is rare. She rides in the shopping cart at the store and he's in the sling. Sometimes we just need to get things done!

Also, my dd just turned 3, but most people assume she's 5 or 6 due to her size/verbal ability. I hate to think, yet have to assume, that many people judge her and me unfairly because they presume to know our situation and her needs.


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## MissMaryMack (Apr 7, 2007)

Especially at Disney or someplace huge like that, strollers are great. My DDs rode in the (rented for way too much $) Disney strollers when we went there last year, and they're in elementary school. When we're paying $50 a piece to be in the park, I'd rather they not spend all their energy just walking from place to place. With strollers, we could stay 6 hours without anyone getting cranky - without, we'd have had to leave after probably 3 1/2 hours.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
My ds napped every afternoon until after he turned 5. If it was 1 o'clock and I wasn't heading towards home, it was going to be a problem without a stroller.

Good point, good point!


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

It's not common here at all. The only 4 and 5 year olds I've ever seen in a stroller here are 2 of my past daycare kids. They are siblings and both VERY overweight. The 4yo had legs so chubby she couldn't bend her knees enough to climb into her carseat on her own. I had to make steps for her because I couldn't lift her in and out without hurting myself. By the time she left my daycare she was doing much better, because I walk everywhere with the daycare kids







We walk to the park, the library etc. I only put under 2yo's in the stroller and I carry the under 1yos in a Moby. So I'm usually wearing an infant and have 2 toddlers in the double stroller. The rest have to walk with me. They do GREAT!!! It's about 1.5 miles round trip....they take a FANTASTIC nap afterwards. I pack a snack or a picnic to take with us and the even walk back after playing hard at the park for a couple of hours. We are much slower on the way back to the house though, LOLOL.


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## momma4fun (Jan 23, 2007)

Some people see things such as cribs, walkers, bouncy seats, baby swings, car seats, play pens, strollers and high chairs as "cages" or "prison bars" for babies and children. I think the op may think as such???

I don't agree. Each different thing could serve a healthy purpose for some child somewhere at some point in time. So I don't judge. For our family, I have used a crib with one dd, a baby swing with a different dd, a car seat (as occasional "containment") for the third dd and strollers and high chairs for all 3.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

My 4.5 yo rides only at things like amusement parks, zoos - places that are a lot of walking and a full day of it. Not at the mall unless he is not feeling well or something.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma4fun* 
Some people see things such as cribs, walkers, bouncy seats, baby swings, car seats, play pens, strollers and high chairs as "cages" or "prison bars" for babies and children. I think the op may think as such???

I don't agree. Each different thing could serve a healthy purpose for some child somewhere at some point in time. So I don't judge. For our family, I have used a crib with one dd, a baby swing with a different dd, a car seat (as occasional "containment") for the third dd and strollers and high chairs for all 3.

Maybe, but really it's the overuse or poor use of such devices that makes them sub standard.

Most of us remember the leash wars here at MDC, don't we?


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## MyTwoAs (May 19, 2004)

My 5.5 year old son asks for the stroller if we're going to the mall or somewhere else where he'll be expected to walk for a long time (we rented strollers on a recent trip to Sea World and Legoland). Often times it is him in the stroller and my 3.5 year old walking. My son has low muscle tone along with some other problems so he likes a little break during a long day. If I still had my double stroller I'd use that as my 3.5 year old has autism and is known to often dart and wander off. Two eyes...two kids...busy mom.

So what I'm saying is that when you see an older child in a stroller please don't automatically assume that the parent is into "caging" their kids or that their kids are lazy and bound to be obese (I'm not saying the OP specifically is, just using 'you' in a general term). There are often times underlying problems that account for the stroller use in older children. FWIW my kids were both slung as long as they wanted to be slung - my son stopped liking the sling about 4 and my daughter about 2.5.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GC_Mom* 
My 5.5 year old son asks for the stroller if we're going to the mall or somewhere else where he'll be expected to walk for a long time (we rented strollers on a recent trip to Sea World and Legoland). Often times it is him in the stroller and my 3.5 year old walking. My son has low muscle tone along with some other problems so he likes a little break during a long day. If I still had my double stroller I'd use that as my 3.5 year old has autism and is known to often dart and wander off. Two eyes...two kids...busy mom.

So what I'm saying is that when you see an older child in a stroller please don't automatically assume that the parent is into "caging" their kids or that their kids are lazy and bound to be obese (I'm not saying the OP specifically is, just using 'you' in a general term). There are often times underlying problems that account for the stroller use in older children. FWIW my kids were both slung as long as they wanted to be slung - my son stopped liking the sling about 4 and my daughter about 2.5.









: I was just looking at (turned 3 in January) ds last night as we pushed him in the jogging stroller for a walk around the neighborhood thinking, "what will we do when he outgrows the stroller?"

My ds has autism, he does not consistently hold hands (he used to not hold hands at all...we've been working on this) and is known to dart into parking lots, streets, etc.. He LIKES to ride in the jogging stroller. Last night we went for a walk simply because he literally climbed into the stroller (it was parked in the garage, we were hanging out in the yard) and said "ride?"

When I thought of getting a bigger stroller to accommodate him, I _immediately_ thought gee I'll bet there'll be a lot of people who will see him the stroller and leap to judgement.

So it goes.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

My almost three year old never walks in public places. She has really bad sensory issues and will take of running or just break down in large crowds. In a stroller, she's perfectly happy.


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## anarchamama (Mar 4, 2005)

My almost 4 yo rides in a stroller a lot. We take the dog for a mediumly long walk every day and while he could walk that far at a meandering stop and look at everything pace I would prefer the dog walk to take less than 4 hours







the dog gets really bored at ds's pace.







That being said I try to discourage his habitual use of the stroller for short trip s as he wants to use it out of habit and not actual practicality. But any time we are walking for a purpose, ie getting somewhere walking the dog he uses it. I had a woman in ds' kinder musik class go on and on at me about this, how she sees people with older kids in strollers and she couldn't understand it and her kids would refuse to use their strollers when they were 18 months. Finally when I asked about what she does when they get tired she was like oh they never get tired they could run from one end of the mall and back that I realized they never used strollers for transportation.







: She was being really rude (and classist) and finally i just said look lady people have big kid sin strollers becasue they don't have cars, they walk to the mall not just in the mall.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
Serious question for you, not being snarky. Would you think twice if the kid was riding in a wagon instead of a stroller?

I ask because a friend of mine says things constantly about a friend of hers who's four year old rides in the stroller. And yet, we both owned wagons for our kids and she didn't seem to think it was the same thing.

I've noticed this in the ap community where I live. Some of the parents who especially prided themselves on "always" babywearing, have wagons and joggers--as if that's not the same thing. I actually thought I was the only one who noticed this.


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## momma4fun (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
I've noticed this in the ap community where I live. Some of the parents who especially prided themselves on "always" babywearing, have wagons and joggers--as if that's not the same thing. I actually thought I was the only one who noticed this.


LOL I notice it too!


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Very true.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
I've noticed this in the ap community where I live. Some of the parents who especially prided themselves on "always" babywearing, have wagons and joggers--as if that's not the same thing. I actually thought I was the only one who noticed this.

But.... but... wagons don't have a cup holder for my chai tea! What's a mom to do?


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

The idea of lugging one of those stupid wagons around makes my back ache just thinking about it. But yes, I know exactly what you mean, how a stroller is a "baby containment device" to some, but a wagon is cool waldorf-style fun or whatever. Gag me.









As for why you didn't see bigger kids in strollers "back in the day," I remember when my brother outgrew his stroller. It was a sad day. Back then, the weight limit on the most heavy duty models was about 30 lbs. He was about 2.5. The next couple years were filled with whining from him, about his tired legs, and my parents, about their aching backs. The stroller I have has a weight limit of 45 lbs and I intend to use it as long as necessary.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But.... but... wagons don't have a cup holder for my chai tea! What's a mom to do?

Yeah, my jogging stroller doesn't have a cup holder for my chai tea either.







:

I don't know, I only have a two year old







who was never good at riding in the stroller (we only have a jogger) and I wish she was. See, my 2 y.o. is the stop and smell the roses type of baby and I am "training" for a half marathon. Since she won't go in the stroller, I have to do all of my training (read: walking) when she is asleep which means I get less work done (I WAH). I would much rather do it while she is awake but walking 3 steps and then stopping to look at something just does not constitute walking. I don't see what is wrong with occasionally putting an older child in a stroller. I also don't think you stalk the moms long enough to have a full picture of what is going on. Be gentle with them, being a mom is hard.


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## pjabslenz (Mar 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I'd also like to ask you to rethink your perspective on this. I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I also have a 6 year old who you might sometimes find me pushing. He has problems with sensory integration, but from looking at him, you likely would know he had any issues (unless you saw him in the middle of a sensory overload meltdown, in which case you might think he was a brat and I was a bad mom







). Anyhow, sometimes riding is a calming force for him, just like wearing him was when he was younger. All special needs aren't visible ones.









: Eclipse

My ds requested to ride in the KOHL's cart this past weekend. He was the biggest kid riding in the cart but it was either ride or deal with his sensory overload meltdown.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Yeah, my jogging stroller doesn't have a cup holder for my chai tea either.







:

That's because you don't have a BOB console.








http://www.strollerideas.com/20bobsthaco.html
Yes, it fits on non-bob strollers.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But.... but... wagons don't have a cup holder for my chai tea! What's a mom to do?

Honestly, I long for dd's old stroller with the cup holders







But dd wouldn't be caught dead in a stroller after she was around three, but can't make the walk downtown and back, so we went to a wagon. I consider it the same thing as a stroller..I don't know how people feel like a wagon is a fine but a stroller isn't.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

I love all the cupholders on our stroller. One for my water bottle, one for his, and one for her sippy cup. And a tray for us to put toys in for her, or samples of meals out. And a giant basket that can carry 40 lbs worth of diapers, groceries, and extra coats and blankets. Really we're nomadic during the day and our stroller is like a snazzy, upholstered version of a homeless person's shopping cart or an old lady's wire basket/walker.









And, it will probably save our marriage. Seriously. Because when she's in the stroller she sings to herself happily and checks out the scenery, and we can talk about Grown Up Things in Grown Up Voices and relax a little. It's better than sticking her in front of the TV to watch another Yehudi Menuhin documentary or something.

And she takes the best naps in there!

And I have an adorable video of daddy racing her up and down the sidewalk as she screams and giggles with delight.

Go strollers!


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## TabbyK (Jan 14, 2007)

Boy I guess even the simplest parenting choices are open to judgement. When DD was born almost 3 years ago, we bought a double stroller. Best investment ever. DS was 22 months at the time. In all honestly I think we've used it maybe a dozen times in those 3 years - but those times we used it, it was worth every penny. Doctor's trips when both kids are sick? No way I'm pushing a stroller with one and carrying the other or even worse, carrying BOTH of them (been there, done that, my back will never be the same!). If we go to the mall, we normally don't take it, but someplace like the zoo or Ren Fest? Absolutely! DS will be 5 in a few months, and we're sadly passing it on at the end of the summer - he's getting too big for it. But he's a little guy, and he gets tired a lot easier than I do as an adult (I suspect that's why it's state law that any child 5 or under in school must be offered a nap, yet my employer isn't required to provide me with a naptime! LOL!). He's full of boundless energy, but when he's done, that's it. Why not have someplace comfy for him to relax? He's not lazy, he's not spoiled, he's just a child with a child's needs.

K.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But.... but... wagons don't have a cup holder for my chai tea! What's a mom to do?

our wagon has a cupholder! actually 2!







I love it! My 3yo still uses the stroller on occasion as well. I wear my 25+lb DD usually. if we go to the grocery store though they both go in the cart (double cart or not). DS will NOT stay with me while walking and will run off. I am trying to figure out how to teach him to stay with me, but so far it's been a disaster most times. he's super stubborn about it too. I can't wait until he can walk on his own and stay nearby!







:


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Count me as a person wondering what the heck I am going to do when 3.5 yo dd outgrows her stroller.

While I find these types of threads completely pointless, I am compelled to share yet another valid reason that a perfectly healthy 3+ yo might be in a stroller.

I walk everywhere. Errands and exercise. Every single day. Most places I go are one or more miles away (one way). On busy streets with poor visibility and NO sidewalks. This means that at least once a day I am walking for at least 45 minutes and often much more. I am walking on sheer ice, huge mud puddles, slush, blazing hot pavement, cracked and heaving pavement, gravel, etc..... I am walking in the snow, sleet, rain, hail (only once), blazing sun. I am walking in anything from -10 degrees up to 100 degrees. I also walk up and down VERY steep hills. I am an adult that can gauge my comfort level with a better scope of the "whole plan". I also have access to gear (such as cleets and gortex) that is simply not made for 3 yos. I have more balance. I could go on.

Dd has a great jogging stroller with a complete cover. She can be totally shaded in hot weather and completely enclosed, wrapped, and bundled in cold. To expect a 3, 4, 5, or even 6 yo to do what I do daily is too much. Not to mention dd loves riding in the stroller, which in my book is a good enough reason.

However, I do make a point to give dd access to many exercise opportunities, usually more than once a day.

My stroller never goes in the car. But I do have a small umbrella stroller that is brought out maybe twice a year for museums, amusement parks, airports, zoos, etc..... She walks under her own power at those places but likes to have the stroller as back-up if she wants it after a long day.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I think a child in a mall might prefer to be in a stoller. Mall shopping is deathly boring. A child in a stroller can nap, have a little snack, look at books, play with little toys. What's so great about walking around the mall while your parents shop for stuff? And it's not like the view ever changes. Wheverever you go, no matter what city or state you're in, there's Gymboree or Abercrombie with the same exact window displays. I would think a stroller is an escape from that gentrification.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

My son is 4. He looks 'normal' and healthy. He's on the autism spectrum. He has sensory issues and low muscle tone (even though he's had physical and occupational therapy for a year and a half).
He gets tired when we go to the mall. Our mall is BIG and the stores we go to are usually at separate ends. He usually ends up wanting me to pick him up. Not only that, he gets sensory overload. When that happens, look out. He's like the Tazmanian Devil. He completely flips out. It helps him to calm down and avoid melt downs if he can sit in a stroller.
I haven't actually brought the stroller with me in quite a long time but I'm certainly not opposed to it.

Again, many kids may look 'normal' and/or healthy. You don't know what's going on just by looking at him/her.
How about we all just go about our own business and try not to pass judgement on little things such as this.


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## marsmom (May 25, 2005)

We see children we know (and who we know have no special issues) being pushed absolutely everywhere around our neighborhood in strollers at 4+. I've heard their mothers complain that the kids get so tired walking, but it's chicken and egg, isn't it? They need to build up the strength to walk by walking regularly (thought only applies to children without special issues).

My 4.5 yr old left the stroller at 3.5 yrs and, yes, I do have to adjust my activities to accomodate her energy level and, yes, I do have access to a car if I need to make a longer trip, but she is 45 lbs and, no, I can't carry her, she knows she has to walk.

But, it seems to me that the more she walks, the more she is able to walk. And I (usually) quite like the fact that walking with her forces me to slow my pace down and see things at her speed. I can't wait until my 2.5 yr old is ready so I can get rid of the stroller and we can all walk together. Just my two cents and no judgement passed on those who love their strollers.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Do you remember growing pains? I do. Those alone would make me not want to walk sometimes as a child. The total leg ache that just wouldn't go away. It has nothing to do with strength sometimes. Maybe they just don't want to walk everywhere their parents are dragging them. I wouldn't. Plus, children build their strength by playing and running. Not going for boring walks through stores, malls, etc..


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Twins are different, and exempt from the judgement on strollers, right? Well, even if they aren't, I claim that it's ok for them to ride in a stroller. And singletons, and sibs of any age, too.

I gave away my double stroller when my twin girls were about 2.5 I guess. I wish I had it sometimes - but it would weigh 90 lbs with them in it and wouldn't steer.

Anyway, my kids are healthy and active. And they get bored and tired, so they ride in the cart at Costco and whatever other store I'm in. I never once thought, "I wonder if people think my Big Kids are lazy?" Bah!


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marsmom* 
We see children we know (and who we know have no special issues) being pushed absolutely everywhere around our neighborhood in strollers at 4+. I've heard their mothers complain that the kids get so tired walking, but it's chicken and egg, isn't it? They need to build up the strength to walk by walking regularly (thought only applies to children without special issues).

My 4.5 yr old left the stroller at 3.5 yrs and, yes, I do have to adjust my activities to accomodate her energy level and, yes, I do have access to a car if I need to make a longer trip, but she is 45 lbs and, no, I can't carry her, she knows she has to walk.

But, it seems to me that the more she walks, the more she is able to walk. And I (usually) quite like the fact that walking with her forces me to slow my pace down and see things at her speed. I can't wait until my 2.5 yr old is ready so I can get rid of the stroller and we can all walk together. Just my two cents and no judgement passed on those who love their strollers.

Well honestly it's easy to get rid of the stroller if you don't have to walk somewhere within a certain time frame.

We walk to school for my older son every day. I am not going to make my 3.5 yo walk all the way to school if he doesn't feel he can but we must get there. And I'd rather put him in a stroller than get in the car anyday...

...but no judgment passed on those who love their cars...


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## marsmom (May 25, 2005)

When they have to do it all the time, they do get used to it, based on my experience and a few of my friends anyway.

We also have walked to school every day for 2 years now. In the morning, when she knows we need to get there, she (usually) can focus on moving. On the way home, we can stop and look at every plant, animal, car, etc. that she wants.

We also walk to 90%+ of our errands (excluding large grocery trip or things in another town) and I don't see it as boring most of the time for them. They learn about interacting with other people, they learn about the food we buy, we pass people we know in the street and talk, they learn about sending mail at the post office - I don't know, we manage to talk about most things we're doing while walking. I wouldn't plan an afternoon of straight shopping - even an hour and I would mix in the library or playground or something. And sure she fusses sometimes, but we sit down or have a snack or some distraction and then she's ok to go again. I do wish I could put them both in the cart at Costco, but 80lbs plus groceries and my back don't get along.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

But my sons were rarely in a stroller (yay slings) and now they like them. Sometimes I take the stroller to the zoo for when they get tired, and then they want to get pushed along while chomping on ranch bunnies before they even get tired. It frustrates me, but they're not lazy kids. They're active, healthy-eating kids who aren't overweight and get loads of activity and exercise. So I don't think it's always a sign of lazy kids and parents always using them. Granted that's not every day for us, but still. Sometimes kids just like them, and they're convenient. Doesn't mean they're always in them or not exercising.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts (yet), but here, in hot and sticky Florida, people go the mall *just* to be able to walk in the air conditioning. I see a lot of power walking mama's with their kids in strollers. How can one power walk with a 3 year old on foot?


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
The idea of lugging one of those stupid wagons around makes my back ache just thinking about it.

Then you need to do this.


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## TypingMJ (Nov 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Then you need to do this.



















Thank you for my best laugh of the day!


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I'd also like to ask you to rethink your perspective on this. I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I also have a 6 year old who you might sometimes find me pushing. He has problems with sensory integration, but from looking at him, you likely would know he had any issues (unless you saw him in the middle of a sensory overload meltdown, in which case you might think he was a brat and I was a bad mom







). Anyhow, sometimes riding is a calming force for him, just like wearing him was when he was younger. All special needs aren't visible ones.

I was just going to post about this; my precious 4-year-old nephew has serious sensory integration problems and is often calmed by being in the stroller, especially if he's in a high-stimulation place like a busy mall or store. You're absolutely right, not all special needs are obvious at first sight.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Then you need to do this.









rofl!


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marsmom* 
When they have to do it all the time, they do get used to it, based on my experience and a few of my friends anyway.

We also have walked to school every day for 2 years now. In the morning, when she knows we need to get there, she (usually) can focus on moving. On the way home, we can stop and look at every plant, animal, car, etc. that she wants.

Well I'm sure it works well for you, but our school is pretty far away and he sits down and cries, so I would rather let him be in a stroller.....I know WHAT a bad mom...


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
rofl!

I'm not kidding. If you really do have Belgian Sheepdogs, they make great carting dogs!

Here is a link for anyone who is interested. I bought the conversion kit from Dog Works. It is attached with a pin, so when I want to put the regular handle back I can.

Kali (my dog) hauls the garbage bins out to the road, and everything. The neighbors all get a kick out of us when we go for a walk all hooked up to the wagon. It's great fun!


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

I have a Belgian Sheepdog but she's so neurotic I don't know if she'd go for that. Poor Pixie. It would be awesome if she did, though.


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## taradt (Jun 10, 2003)

Would you think twice if that same 4 year old was carried by a parent or being piggy backed? Kids get tired, even older ones. We have had days that we are on the go from morning until night. My 5 year old can keep up for the most part but does sometimes get tired, we tend to put her in the Ergo then, but I have used the stroller as well (and ironically I didn't get a stroller until she was 4)

Also my daughter HATES walking in the city. Get her on hiking trails and she will run a good 2 hour hike that would leave many healthy people out of breath, but put her on a crowded city street and she gets uncomfortable and wants to be held.

There are also days that DD is feeling that she wants to still be "my baby", if putting her in a stroller makes her feel secure and not outplaced it seems to me a very small price to pay for her reassurance









So should she be made to walk at those times because she is healthy? what about the times we as parents drive to a place because we are "just too tired"? isn't that the same thing except the child doesn't really get much say in the outing.


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Wow, you know, I honestly never thought about a 3 or 4 yo being too old for a stroller. Maybe before I had kids I would have said that's too old. But my ds will be 4 next month and I still think of him as being so little. He likes the stroller. He may possibly have sensory issues or PDD-NOS but we're still in the dx process, so that may have something to do with why he likes the stroller but I don't really know. I think he feels calmer and safer in there. And he walks really slow and often walks into people.

On the other hand, I know many people with perfectly typical kids who use strollers at 4, especially jogging strollers or those quick umbrella kind.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Haven't read the replies.

I live in a big city, so mall shopping is not something I necessarily I do a lot of. I tend to not go with the kids, but if I do have to run in, I will often put my 2.5yo in a stroller with some snacks just so we can get in and out without me having to have a death grip on his arm at the register while he is trying to run to the escalator. But I haven't gone strolling through the mall with my kids since they were babies.

But, since I do live in a big city, we do a lot of walking, and there are a lot of hills. I almost always bring a stroller for when my 2.5yo gets tired, and just yesterday my almost 6yo was begging me to take the 2.5yo out and let him get in because he was so tired after a day at the zoo. We do have a double stroller that we take sometimes on longer walks to the library and such. They spend maybe half the time in it, often just getting in and out.

But I've never really cared if someone uses a stroller or not, or what the age of the child is. I am bothered when I see crying screaming kids in strollers, but again, there could be plenty of good explanations for that as well.


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

Who really cares?

I rarely go to the mall, but when I do, you can bet I take my double stroller. Neither of my kids are 'runners', so they walk beside me part of the time. Sometimes one walks while the other rides and sometimes they both ride. The stroller is handy to put packages in too! Also, I've found it easier to have the kids in the stroller when they are eating things I've purchased at the mall. I don't know about all kids, but my kids still have a hard time walking, keeping up with me and eating at the same time.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

I use a stroller when we are in busy places like amusement parks or for long walks because my kids do get tired and I can't always carry them. They are not lazy and are very physically fit. Dad takes them on hikes and they make it to the top of 10,000 foot trails. He and older brother are able to carry them though when they get tired.
They are more fatigued by busy places and the stoller is a safe place for them to retreat and snuggle down for a rest. We also use it to carry backpacks, coats, snacks and water.


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Well, my 5yo still rides in the stroller. He looks normal. I don't care if someone thinks I'm a lazy, selfish, b!tch of a mom. I do what I need to do to keep my kid safe. if you don't like it, don't look. Don't judge. I have my reasons and until you've walked in my shoes, you don't know what's happening.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

My healthy, happy, and active - thank you very much - youngest DD lovedlovedloved her stroller. And I allowed her to ride in it, anywhere and anytime she wanted, 'til she was five. *gasp* Amazingly enough, she is STILL healthy, happy, active, and socially normal.







:

She six and a half now - and just the other day insisted on squeezing into the front seat of the shopping cart.

And I let her.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Why is there so much judgment over ridiculous things like whether a child rides in a stroller or walks? The child is not suffering, so really, who cares?


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## Igraine (Jul 1, 2006)

Sometimes I wish I could get my ds to take a stroller ride especially when he gets tired.

My ds would not be caught in a stroller, ever. He is so proud to hold the stroller when his little sister is in it.

Don't see this as a big deal, though. If it works and the child is happy, no problem with me.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Why is there so much judgment over ridiculous things like whether a child rides in a stroller or walks? The child is not suffering, so really, who cares?

Honestly, in this case I think it's plain old Calvinist "no pain no gain" mentality. Like, hauling a kid around while your back aches, or making a kid walk until his legs hurt, or leading a constricted life and giving up social contacts to accomodate a kid's ability to walk only shorter distances is "better" because it's "sacrifice." And taking a stroller is "the easy way out." The whole mother-martyr thing, AGAIN.

Also, I think it has a lot to do with North Americans' unhealthy obsession/love affair/abusive dependent relationship with cars.







: Just like all the car seat wars.







:







: Using a stroller only seems "lazy" when you unload the thing from the back of the monsterous hunk of steel you just drove all of three blocks.







:







:







:


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

When I want to go on a long walk I take a double stroller. I have back problems and can't carry my 19 month old for long periods of time.
My dd is 4.75 and will get tired after a while so I let her walk when she wants or sit when she wants. This lets me get the exercise I want and dd doesn't get exhausted or whine.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I have an 18 month old girl. I also have a hubby who sometimes walks 6 steps and feels like he's going to die from the back pain. The stroller is great because even though my dd can walk, she walks slow, is a little too short for me to get a good grip on my hand without me pulling her arm, and runs into people or falls down a lot because she's running so fast on the leash (it's one of them backpack ones). My hubby can push it around and it helps his back not hurt so much. It would be hard to carry her around because she is heavy. Also, since we work in many different stores, I rather she be contained if we can't take her out to play in KB. But once we take her out in a KB, watch out! She runs all over the place and plays with about everything! She can also run around all she wants at home. But for us the stroller is a must. It also has spiffy cupholders!


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## AussieMumOf2 (Apr 7, 2007)

My 6yr old DS is lazy at times.







If we're going to school, he's happy to walk. But as soon as we go somewhere like the shops (somewhere his friends are unlikely to be) he pretty much snatches it from his little sister. Do you guys still buckle them in when they're say 4 - 5ish?


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## kalynnsmom (Dec 3, 2004)

I really don't see the big deal either. My daughter who is 4, usually does walk, but she gets tired, so she rides in the stroller.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AussieMumOf2* 
My 6yr old DS is lazy at times.







If we're going to school, he's happy to walk. But as soon as we go somewhere like the shops (somewhere his friends are unlikely to be) he pretty much snatches it from his little sister. Do you guys still buckle them in when they're say 4 - 5ish?

I do still buckle my dd is. But we have a jogging stroller and it is pretty easy to hit a pothole and launch a child out of it. Especially when I actually jog with it, which is pretty rare. I got the jogging stroller for the big wheels that do really well in snow and rough terrain.


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

When my ds was 4 he often rode in the stroller. If I had agreed he'd probably have ridden in it to kindergarten!


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Why is there so much judgment over ridiculous things like whether a child rides in a stroller or walks?

Why, so some above-it-all supermama somewhere can do her superior dance, of course.







:


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spero* 
Why, so some above-it-all supermama somewhere can do her superior dance, of course.







:

I remember reading a thread in the past about someone walking 6 or 7 kids home from grocery shopping, all holding hands, ranging in age from 2 and up, while holding groceries to boot, all so they wouldn't have to be contained in a stroller or wagon.

I think the idea was that if you never let them ride in a stroller and made them walk from the time they were able, that they'd learn to walk and keep up from an early age. That, or just never complain of being tired. I'm not sure. It was an interesting thread, anyway.

Personally, I think the judgment stems from the "you'll spoil them" mentality. I hear it all the time when I wear my almost 13 month old. I guess she's passed the age of "needing" to be worn, and can darn well ride in the shopping cart or stroller. Soon she won't even need those.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I am not trying to read minds here...but perhaps the OP's question more comes from the place of having only one infant. Those 3 and 4 yr olds look like grownups when you have a baby who can't even hold up his head, kwim? Kind of like mothers of 7 mos olds who post about all the bullying 18 mos old babies being mean at LLL meetings.

New parents don't yet have the prespective of what an 18 mos old is capable of, and whether a 4 or 5 yr old can get tired or bored when shopping? Kind of how the toddler looks like a giant when you bring the new baby home, and one starts expecting an old baby to be 'big" and you're sure he/she 'understands everything I say".

I don't know. Walking is good, happily chillin' in a sling or stroller or backpack is good.

Respected kids = cool. Dragged or restrained miserable children = not cool.


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## sandy from Toronto (Mar 24, 2004)

It looks like it has all been said already anyway...but I'm adding my thoughts all the same. My son is almost 3 years old and I still prefer to take a stroller every time we leave the house. We live in the city and I do not have a car. He is a big kid for his age and I stopped being able to carry him very well about a year ago. If we are going to run any errands and purchase items that I will have to carry home or if we are going to be out for a long time - I am in big trouble without a stroller. I can't carry him AND other items plus, he misses his chance to have a nap while I can go about running my errands.

Interestingly, my son also has a much greater interest in being pushed in the stroller since he started daycare shortly after he turned two years old. They go on walks each day and he, of course, does not get pushed in a stroller. I think its a mild regression to wanting mommy to take care of him given the new demands on him for autonmy during the weekdays. He is also much more demanding about being carried, too.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Then you need to do this.









Oh my hell, I just woke up my almost-sleeping baby with my snort.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
I remember reading a thread in the past about someone walking 6 or 7 kids home from grocery shopping, all holding hands, ranging in age from 2 and up, while holding groceries to boot, all so they wouldn't have to be contained in a stroller or wagon.
l


I acutally have had a problem at times with seeing with people holding the hands of 2 yr olds when walking a lot. The poor kid's arm must cramp up. How uncomfortable, really. I only say that because you most always see the toddler trying to take his hand away. That can't feel great. I'd rather see a little puppy harness around the baby. At least then they can have use of both hands, and no cramping up. And cool for being carried or being in a stroller...but sometimes 2 yr olds want to explore. They should have all options open to them.


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## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?









I'm having a hard time understanding why this bothers you?

I could drop my 4yo off at the park and he will run and play for as long as you let him. Take him to the mall or shopping and pretty soon he's whining that his feet are tired, that he's tired of walking, that he's tired of this store. Now I'm usually waaay to lazy to drag my double stroller shopping, but I'd hate to be judged for using it if it gives comfort for my kids. Kids that age aren't really wired for long shopping trips....if they like riding in a stroller, who cares??


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
I acutally have had a problem at times with seeing with people holding the hands of 2 yr olds when walking a lot. The poor kid's arm must cramp up. How uncomfortable, really. I only say that because *you most always see the toddler trying to take his hand away.* That can't feel great.

That's my daughter, to a tee! We were at the mall a few weeks ago and I let her down out of the Ergo to walk around. She immediately headed into the nearest shop to pull stuff off the shelves (which happened to be a salon, oh the joys of shampoo bottles!







). When I tried to hold her hand, not only was her arm stretched up way over her head, but she'd pull it away and/or promptly fall to the floor and scream. If I let her go she was happy as a clam. I finally got so sick of picking her up and dragging her away from the store fronts kicking and screaming that I had to put her back in the Ergo, where she screamed the entire way back to the car.

So what do I do? _Force_ her to hold my hand, while I drag her sliding on her butt, all in the name freedom from "containment devices"? Let her shoplift (which she'd happily do, grab a shampoo bottle and run..lol)? Make her sit in a stroller or back pack? Or *gasp* use a harness so she can happily explore while I redirect her in a way that is not forceful and almost makes her think it's *her* idea, without reefing her arm up over her head? Let me tell you, I've thought about it!

Long story short, I totally agree with you.


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## kleines (Mar 28, 2007)

Kids just get tired too. There are times I would ride in a stroller! I don't see it as a problem at all. My mom pushed me around when I was 3 or 4 sometimes. I also went on long hikes without being carried too. I don't think it promotes laziness at all. When you have 2 or 3 kids sometimes you just feel safer, or happier if the kid needs a break. I choose not to judge other peoples choices as far as children go (unless extreme, like abuse or something). It is a HARD job and we all get by using whatever means possible.


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

Many people here have given reasons why strollers are useful for older children which I perfectly understand, but what I don't understand is why there seems to be so much displeasure toward what to me just seemed to be a simple question from Elliesmama. I didn't get the sense that she was necessarily being judgemental; maybe she is just from a different culture where strollers are not ubiquitous.

Although I already posted in this thread, I want to add something from another culture's perspective. In my country of origin, strollers are not used at all. They are not sold in stores and are not practical anyway because there are few sidewalks and terrible road conditions. Very rarely, someone visting from the U.S. or Canada will travel back home with one, just to use in the airport they left from. Babywearing is not practiced either. Babies are carried in arms until they can walk. Once they can walk steadily, they walk everywhere. Occasionally, a very tired toddler might be carried briefly by someone else. It is not unusual to see 2 and 3 year old children walking several miles with others, and often they are carrying things. So for people from my country now living in the U.S. or Canada, it IS strange to see older children in strollers - most can understand the usefulness before the child can walk, but not much beyond that, because they did not grow up seeing it. Even among those of us who are raised here, our parents didn't tend to use strollers very long (if at all, depending on when they arrived). As a result, even among the younger generation, strollers don't seem to be used very long either.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
In my country of origin, strollers are not used at all.

Where are you from? It's interesting to learn from other cultures, but hard to relate when you don't know where that culture is.


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

*


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Where are you from? It's interesting to learn from other cultures, but hard to relate when you don't know where that culture is.









Where I am from is actually irrelevant, because there are many countries and cultures throughout the world in which strollers are rare or non-existent.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
Where I am from is actually irrelevant, because there are many countries and cultures throughout the world in which strollers are rare or non-existent.

Ok. I don't know what cultures those are, hence the reason I asked. Sorry.


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

North_of_60, I don't want to hijack this thread further, but one thing to consider is that about half of the world's population lives on less than $2.00 (U.S.) a day, so these families are not going to spend their limited resources on strollers. If you have an idea of about how wealth is distributed on this planet, it is fairly easy to figure out where stroller usage is uncommon.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
North_of_60, I don't want to hijack this thread further, but one thing to consider is that about half of the world's population lives on less than $2.00 (U.S.) a day, so these families are not going to spend their limited resources on strollers. If you have an idea of about how wealth is distributed on this planet, it is fairly easy to figure out where stroller usage is uncommon.

You're right, I'm sure I could figure out where stroller use is uncommon. However, since this is a _discussion_ forum, and someone happened by with a perspective about a current _discussion_, I hoped to gain more information so as to familiarize myself with that perspective. Again, I'm sorry if that offended you. I started a spin off thread to discuss this very thing.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

I can totally understand and endorse stroller use when it is mutually agreeable for parent and child, but I have also known parents that _force_ their 2-5 year-old children to ride in the stroller--because they are easier to control, parent can walk at their own pace and not that of an exploring toddler. So I can understand a bit where the op is coming from. I do think strollers are overused--where I live I am a crazy permissive weirdo for _allowing_ my 2.5yo to walk.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

I am trying to figure out what the big deal is? I'll save my judgements for the people that hit their kids or let them CIO but I would never judge someone for using a stroller. There are many times I wish I could climb in the stroller and be pushed around.

We use a stroller for our 4 year old, but it is up to him as to when he wants to get in. We take it to the mall because when we go to the mall, we spend a lot of time there. No way am I going to carry a 45 pound child around when he gets tired. We don't "contain" him in it - it is completely his choice as to whether he rides or walks.

He is not unhealthy and gets plenty of activity throughout the day.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. they all look like healthy kids who can walk. not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?

Who knows really. <shrug> Parents may have their own motivations.

I'd say containment and the kids may be tired of walking. Malls are not usually child friendly. Also for my kids it was the novelty. They liked riding in the wagon because they COULD. We didn't have one at home. Same for the car strollers they had.

Like I said in other posts-my kids went through phases-sometimes they wanted to ride.

Also-a three/four yo may be younger than you think. My oldest was very, very big for his age.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MtBikeLover* 
I'll save my judgements for the people that hit their kids or let them CIO but I would never judge someone for using a stroller.









:


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I think it's obvious that the U.S. is a little more gung-ho on strollers than say, oh, a lot of other countries. I don't think that means that they don't have their uses. I don't think their occasional overuse or misuse means that they can't ever be extremely useful or helpful. I don't think it makes sense to judge someone pushing an older kid b/c you most likely have no way of knowing why they are using it or how often they do. I also think it's easy to wonder why older kids can't just always walk when you don't have older kids (or maybe the op did, but I'm assuming she doesn't). I had no idea that 2-3 year-olds couldn't just happily follow you they way a 4,5, or 6 year-old might.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

As someone has said, I think that at the end of the day, this is another one of those instances of someone who does not have children of X age, saying "When dc is X age, I would never do XXX"


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies, so I have no idea what's been said so far.

I have a 1 year old (non-walking) son who rides in a stroller, or in one of our baby carriers (Kozy, Peanut, etc). I also take care of a two year old little boy who walks when we go places. I am looking into a double stroller though. He can sit in the Kozy, but wants to explore. I'm okay with that. But sometimes he gets tired, sometimes he's just getting into too much (i.e. running through Hallmark in the mall trying to knock glass figures off the shelves) and I don't feel like messing with it at the moment. But normally he does walk and explore. We go out FOR the boys. I want them to learn about the things around them. Be that at the park, mall, zoo, Target, whatever.

There's not a thing wrong with a 4 year old being pushed in a stroller. But it's also not something that would often happen for us. They are big enough to walk without tiring quickly. We don't stay out long enough for a 4 year old to tire out. Now, at an amusement park, the zoo, things like that, I would plan for a four year old to ride in something. I wouldn't want their little legs and feet to start cramping and all that.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21* 
what I don't understand is why there seems to be so much displeasure toward what to me just seemed to be a simple question from Elliesmama. I didn't get the sense that she was necessarily being judgemental;

Really.
I'm offended by the wording of the OP - to me it *is* harsh and judgmental. And like a PP noted - if you feel the need to temper your post with a statement like, "not to be a b*t*h, but ..." - you should probably rethink what you're saying and how you're saying it. KWIM?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma*
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. *they all look like healthy kids who can walk.* not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? *are the kids too lazy to walk?*


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

Spero, it didn't sound judgmental to me because that is *exactly* what my immigrant or visiting relatives say when they see older children in strollers. They also say the same thing to me when they see me babywearing my 20 month old, since he can walk.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

My SIL once jokingly asked my still-crawling 13-month old when she was going to "stop being so lazy and get up and walk!" (Her kid walked at 10 months.)

Even though she was joking and we're family, I still found it an _incredibly_ rude and offensive thing to say.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I only have one friend who does this with her four year old, and it is for containment. She always pressures me to bring a stroller for my son when we do things, but he has never really liked the stroller...he is really high energy and would rather walk. Her son will get upset and want to get out and walk, but it is more convenient for her to leave him in there.

She doesn't do it all the time, but it still creeps me out a little.

I am sure that there are a wide variety of reasons why you might see a larger kid in a stroller. Most have been mentioned, I think, but I wanted to share my personal experience that yes, some people are doing for their comfort, not the child's.
With all the obesity problems we have in this country I try to get DS moving as much as possible!!

The only time DS has used a stroller since he was 2 is if we are going to be walking more than 2 miles. Otherwise he is fine. But every kid is different, he is really high energy!!!


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

I have noticed that my DD (30 months) has been insisting on the stroller more lately. She used to insist on walking. I don't like this trend, above all because she is getting heavy and it tires me out to push the stroller. I have told her that there will be no more stroller once she turns 3 (in August). And there will not be, because it sits in our entry and we would like to free the space. She is still thinking about whether she likes this idea or not.


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## graymom (Jun 27, 2005)

All my kids still sat in Strollers at one time or another up until they were about 4 1/2 yrs. Especially if we were at at mall, taking a long walk to the park or at a store. Sure they were old enough to walk but it was for their safety. I have 4 kids and the 3 youngest were born in less than 4 yrs. I didn't need a 4, 2, And 1 yr old running off in different directions.







: And if given the chance that is exactly what would of happened.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

All my kids look like "healthy normal kids". My 6 year old DS rides in the cart when we grocery shop. It sure beats chasing him while he is launching items or having a meltdown. So yeah, its containment. And he chooses to contain himself, I don't force it. He KNOWs he can't control his urges and asks to be placed there to start with. After about 2 isles, if he is walking, he is sitting on the floor or just slumped to the side of the isle. (We are getting him checked for low muscle tone).

Oh yeah, I just bought a jogging stroller this year as well so I could rollerblade and take my 4 year old with. I plan on taking it to the zoo later this month because I know at least one of the younger 2 are bound to get tired.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I can totally understand and endorse stroller use when it is mutually agreeable for parent and child, but I have also known parents that _force_ their 2-5 year-old children to ride in the stroller--because they are easier to control, parent can walk at their own pace and not that of an exploring toddler. So I can understand a bit where the op is coming from. I do think strollers are overused--where I live I am a crazy permissive weirdo for _allowing_ my 2.5yo to walk.


Not to pick on you, really, but I hope everyone realizes that not all special needs child look like they have "special needs". When my DS was 3, the instant we walked into a store he was on the floor screaming and throwing his body. If he was free of "containment" he'd ram himself into me over and over again the entire shopping trip. Or ram himself into shelves, people, sibblings etc over and over again. He still has troubles with stores. But sometimes I HAVE to bring him. So, yes, he is put in a cart. He is to the point where he knows (now) its better for him and he has more control over his body and how he takes in the store if he is contained. He is able to process it all better and enjoys it all more. But it wasn't always that way and I got lots of comments about "making" him sit in a cart. So I just ask that all those who are jumping to conclusions about "containment' take a step back and think about the possible reasons for why the parent may strap their child into a stroller or cart. It may be for their well-being and safety.


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## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I can totally understand and endorse stroller use when it is mutually agreeable for parent and child, but I have also known parents that _force_ their 2-5 year-old children to ride in the stroller--because they are easier to control, parent can walk at their own pace and not that of an exploring toddler. So I can understand a bit where the op is coming from. I do think strollers are overused--where I live I am a crazy permissive weirdo for _allowing_ my 2.5yo to walk.

I agree with this. I hate to see older kids in strollers, but I try to assume that the mom is really busy, or whatever, and that it is not the norm for the kid to be in the stroller. I am also the wierdo, my DD was wound up from the hour long bus ride, so she walked through walmart with me yesterday, and I got the look from several people. There was one lady who was playing with her some, and talking about how happy she seemed, she said most kids her age seemed so miserable when in the cart. I was amazed by how much smoother things went with her walking. (We tried to let her walk last month and she ran off)


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VernaBloom* 
I've been noticing that a lot lately too, even with kids who look like they're 7 - 8 years old. Most of the time they're with a younger (stroller aged) sibling that's being carried. My guess is the older kid gets a little jealous and takes a turn in the stroller now and then.










Okay, I've got a lot of thread to read here, but need to ask, do you know any 7 - 8 yos?

My kids are undersized according to any standard, and they wouldn't even fit in even a large stroller at 7 - 8.

Maybe the kids you're seeing are 4 - 5 ish.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

I can definitely see circumstances when my dds are tired and would love to ride (they always ride in the cart). So I guess I wouldn't judge if that is how the mom can get her shopping done- as long as it wasn't against the kids will. My dds started walking at 9mos and wanted to walk from that point on, but everybody gets tired. I was just at Universal Studios and SeaWorld for 3 days and would have loved a wheelchair some days.


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## ChrisCountryGirl (Dec 8, 2004)

I don't judge parents who have their preschool child in a stroller because you never know if the child has "special needs", including medical issues


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## Helen_A (Mar 22, 2004)

Lol

I still have my 3 1/2 year old in his pushchair around 3 times a week. Mainly because I am working on losing weight atm and he no longer wants to be worn, but cannot keep up at a speed that allows me to exercise that way. I also have him in a pushchair for a trip we make into the local city (10 min walk - my speed - plus a train journey and a walk accross the centre at the other end) to a group we go to. It enables us all (me and my DDs) to go at a speed that means we get to the group on time. He gets plenty of non-pushchair time, and will often walk shorter distances quite happily (although we then use reins on him as main roads and running impulsive, not yet road savvy toddlers don't mix!) He gets plenty of practise with road/walking situations though...

Helen_A


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## Mrs.PhD (Aug 6, 2006)

It wasn't until the internet message boards that it ever even occurred to me that people would think non infants in strollers were wrong. Why would anyone care? (not just this board, but this topic has come up on others too.)

I look at it a lot like extended breast feeding, as long as it is still working for you why change it just because some people might not do the same thing? Keep what works, change what isn't working. Some kids might not want to ride, my girls like the double stroller, for long distances we use it. My just turned 6 year old still enjoys the stroller (we just got back from a vacation with lots of walking.) Otherwise I use the single stroller for her 2 year old or we all walk, bike or whatever. My girls are both very small for their age, it can be hard to keep up. They are very healthy and no where close to overweight (just the opposite actually.) Maybe it is baby wearing coming back to kick me the butt, but my 2 year old always wants to be carried. She didn't walk until she was 17 months old. My back is starting to hurt.







:


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## mummyto3girls (May 13, 2007)

Sorry but.
I don't understand why it bothers you so much. I'm nor carrying my 3 year old in a sling you know.
DD2 will get tried and will make a fuzz after a while, so I just take the stroller, and DD1 gets tired to, but that's what daddy is for







: But she has to get used to walk a little igit more now though.


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## veiledexpressions (May 24, 2004)

My four year old daughter looks like a normal, healthy child.

However, she can't walk,and never will. Until her wheelchair gets here, it's the only way we can take her places. We can't carry her,because , unlike most girls with RS, she's a normal weight,and tall for her age.

I am so incredibly tired of judgement from those who really don't think before they look down on a mother.

For instance, once, when we were shopping, I had to run out of the store with my daughter, because she was having a meltdown. Sometimes, a certain noise, or light sets her off,and causes minor seizure activity in her brain. It's not always obvious, but it does upset her. Well, I was carrying her out of the store, and some woman had the audacity to say, quite loudly, "looks like a spoiled little girl isn't getting what she wants.".

If I hadn't been in a hurry to calm my child, I would have given her an earful.


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## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

Just FYI, I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if I"m just repeating other posters.

I used to be an anti-stroller snob. As soon as ds1 could walk, I almost always had him walk or just carried him. I couldn't figure out why everyone else was still strolling their much older kids 2 or 3 blocks to the park.

Then ds2 came along. For some reason, now I have tons of back and shoulder pain. I just can't carry him as much as I would like. I often take along a stroller just in case. If I am carrying the baby and ds1 refuses to come along, I can't just pick him up any more. I need more options for getting them both moving.

We recently were in an airport and ended up carrying the 1 yo and strolling the 3 yo. He was totally overwhelmed by the commotion and tension in the airport. I could envision he would have the same reaction to a shopping mall.

So now I still minimize the amount of stroller time either of my kids get, but I"m less judgemental towards others using their strollers. I don't know the temperment of the kid, or if they're sick or tired, or the physical limitations of the mother.

That's not to say I don't think strollers are over-used. I still do. But I can only decide for my own kids where the limit is.

Lara


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I didn't use the stroller for either of mine once they were over 2, mainly because I wanted to instill a love of walking and getting exercise from everyday life. It worked for us.


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## mama_daba (Dec 7, 2004)

this thread has me wondering how far a small child can walk, i get they can walk quiet far and how heavy of a child can ii comfortably carry. i am thinking we (partner and i) will wait until after the baby is born to see if at some point we want or need a stroller. i know my partner could easily carry a pretty heavy kid but my back has some issues and it seems like all the really good carriers are made for women taller than me. i have the same problem just finding a decent backpack. (i am 4'10)


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## taradt (Jun 10, 2003)

Depends on how much walking you do. I will put my 5 year old in a stroller when I am doing a brisk 5 mile walk (mainly because I actually want to get there in a decent amount of time







). On vacation I find that after 2-3 days of walking an average of 10 miles a day she starts getting tired so we will have a "rest" day where we will stroller her when she is tired then she is usually good to go for a couple more days.

That said she didn't use a stroller until she was 4, before then we could just put her in a Mei-Tai and that worked well


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

I walk at least 5 miles a day 3-4 days a week when the weather is good. I don't know many toddlers who can keep up with that distance. They often get out of the stroller and walk for awhile but then climb back in.

There are also days when we do that walk and then end up at the mall for whatever reason. My kids LOVE the mall strollers, which kind of give me the heebie jeebies since tons of other kids have obviously been in them. But they are so cute making fire engine sounds through the mall.

It kind of cracks me up that in a world where people F-bomb their kids, abandon them, beat them, molest them, and even KILL them that someone would judge me harshly for allowing my kids to ride in the fire engine stroller at the mall.







:

Seriously. Call CPS on us stroller moms and be done with it.







:


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
It kind of cracks me up that in a world where people F-bomb their kids, abandon them, beat them, molest them, and even KILL them that someone would judge me harshly for allowing my kids to ride in the fire engine stroller at the mall.







:

I always thought the objection with strollers was directed at the parents that _force_ their children ride in them.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Reasons my kids have ridden in strollers past the age of 3:

1. My oldest was a runner. It helped keep her safe.

2. My oldest had sensory issues. The stroller was a safe place. She would often pull the shade all the way down over herself to hide when she needed to "get away."

3. I have a very fast walking pace. I don't mind walking slow for a short while but if it's a very long distance I like to walk fast.

4. My 3yo frequently has leg pain related to her disease. If it's a bad day she will start to hurt even though her heart wants to walk and run.

5. If she's sleepy, she will often fall asleep in the stroller.

6. She weighs 37.5 pounds, and there's no way I'm going to carry her very long.

7. She loves riding in the stroller.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Because my son wants to. And that's reason enough.


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## zeldabee (Aug 23, 2004)

My son will be 4 in a few months, and he's not special needs. He's very active, I'd say typical of his age. We do take his stroller to the store, and sometimes he rides in it, and sometimes he walks, and we just put the groceries in the stroller. He does enjoy it, and when I've mentioned giving the stroller away to a family with a younger child, he's very against the idea.









I think people here find it stranger than people would in NYC, because most people here drive everywhere, and don't do that much walking. In NYC, unless you're in the outer boroughs, you walk _a lot_, and it's common to see "older" kids in strollers. (This may have already been pointed out in the thread, which I've only skimmed.)

In the case of my boy, he wouldn't tolerate being in the sling for very long once he was walking (at about 10.5 months), and was much happier in the stroller thereafter. At that time, we were still in NYC, and it would have been impossible to be without a stroller. I probably walked about 4 miles a day just getting from home to the train to daycare and back, not to mention any other errands. So if I had that commute now, I'd still be using a stroller, even with him approaching 4 years old.


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## MyTwoAs (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
Because my son wants to. And that's reason enough.

BEST answer in this entire post.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonfroggy* 
this thread has me wondering how far a small child can walk, i get they can walk quiet far and how heavy of a child can ii comfortably carry.

Depends on the kid. I have recently solved a conflict between myself and the school board. They thought it reasonable for a 5 year old to walk 4km each way to school. Luckily, our doctor agrees with us that 2km each way is really pushing it for a 5 year old, and for someone with my son's medical issues, it's absolutely insane.
Whereas my brother has been taking his very high energy DS on 5-10km hikes since he was 3, making his DS walk the whole way.


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## mama_daba (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
Depends on the kid. I have recently solved a conflict between myself and the school board. They thought it reasonable for a 5 year old to walk 4km each way to school. Luckily, our doctor agrees with us that 2km each way is really pushing it for a 5 year old, and for someone with my son's medical issues, it's absolutely insane.
Whereas my brother has been taking his very high energy DS on 5-10km hikes since he was 3, making his DS walk the whole way.

that makes sense that it is different for all kids. for a long time i had thought i would never own a stroller now i look at them and my partner gets confused. i just tell him i plan to wait and see if one would be good for us. we walk everyplace. on weekends we sometimes walk 12 miles but we generally walk at a slowish pace and are not in a hurry. it seems like the only way i will know if one will be helpful for us is to wait and see. i have no problem seeing a child of any age in a stroller. i think carriers are great though.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I'd also like to ask you to rethink your perspective on this. I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I also have a 6 year old who you might sometimes find me pushing. He has problems with sensory integration, but from looking at him, you likely would know he had any issues (unless you saw him in the middle of a sensory overload meltdown, in which case you might think he was a brat and I was a bad mom







). Anyhow, sometimes riding is a calming force for him, just like wearing him was when he was younger. All special needs aren't visible ones.


I didn't read all of the posts, and in fact stopped at this one.
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST!!!! I have a child with SID (pretty severe, had a feeding tube, has had OT, PT and ST for most of her life) and I run with her (she is five and weighs about 30 pounds) and her younger sibling (who is 3) almost every day (about five miles or so) and this is probably the best therapy in the world for ALL of us--she enjoys the ride and really calms down and gets centered when she glides along; I save money running on the street instead of spending money at a gym (where my kids would actually have to be somewhere else while I was there--and that won't work) and my three year old actually takes a nap or can have a calm conversation with his sister while we're out--and in addition to these benefits, we've met many nice people who live along the route we travel daily and now know most of them (and their dogs) by name!
I think that there are many legitimate reasons that people do the things they do. And while on the surface they may not look like they are doing something that you would do--you might not know the reasons behind what you are seeing. It might not be what it appears to be. Make sense?


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## DownToEarth (Nov 14, 2006)

I didn't read the whole thread, but wanted to add my thoughts.

My 2 kids ride in a stroller at 2 and 3. For the most part it is only when we are going long distances or there are a lot of people. They are foster kids and it is a safety issue. If they are in the stroller I know where they are. No can come up behind and grab one. My social worker as said that bio dad has threatened to take the kids from bio mom before. So I have no idea what he would try if we ever run into him in town.

A friend of mine and I were discussing the use of stollers one day. She had taken her neice to a street fair and let her run wild. I mentioned a stoller and she lot that was horrible. My thinking was that, the street fair has a lot of people and if you let an 18 month old child run where they want it would be easy to loose her. But maybe that's just me.

Are stollers over used? You bet. But they also have their purpose. My kids like their stoller. I use a double stroller and they fight over who gets to sit in the back.









Tanya


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
Because my son wants to. And that's reason enough.

I love that answer


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I never meant for this post to offend...I should have taken more time to write it clearly.

I was in a hurry when I wrote it, was trying to keep it brief and it came out TOTALLY different than I intended it to. I completely understand why people were offended...I would have been too! But please understand that I communicated poorly and was misunderstood.

I was making reference to situations that I know personally and should have been more clear. I didn't mean to come across sounding like I was saying dont use strollers or anything like that. I was just saying if you are going to the mall with a friend, to go spend a couple hundred bucks on yourself for fun, instead of making an unhappy kid (I am not talking about kids who like the stroller) sit in the stroller the whole time, get a sitter or bring someone with you. I am talking about people I know who have the resources. Of course you cant bring someone with you all the time...and I should have been clear about what I meant. Heck, I can't afford a sitter!!!
And I am certainly not talking about doing necessary errands, or any of that stuff. It is just a personal vent or me bc I have been watching a couple of my friends do this for a few years, and I just wondered if anyone else thought it was inconsiderate of the child.

I am really sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, and I apologize to those who were offended by the post.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Get a sitter or have someone come to the store with you if your 4 year old really can't handle it without being tied into a stroller.

Are you volunteering? Not everyone HAS a sitter available, or someone who can go to the store with them.


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## zeldabee (Aug 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
Are you volunteering? Not everyone HAS a sitter available, or someone who can go to the store with them.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChrisCountryGirl* 
I don't judge parents who have their preschool child in a stroller because you never know if the child has "special needs", including medical issues









Help me understand your POV. According to you, a *preschool* child in a stroller is OK, _as long as they have "special needs"/medical issues_; but a preschooler with no issues or a school-aged child (with or without issues) is not?

And how exactly does one devise such a precisely defined set of parameters?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mummyto3girls* 
I don't understand why it bothers you so much.

Me neither.








If it bothers you, don't do it with your own kids. But don't beat on mothers who choose to use a stroller (for WHATEVER reason) - it's not a form of abuse as far as I can see, and nobody is being hurt.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lara1828* 
But *I can* only *decide for my own kids* where the limit is.

Lara











Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
... in a world where people F-bomb their kids, abandon them, beat them, molest them, and even KILL them that someone would judge me harshly for allowing my kids to ride in the fire engine stroller at the mall.







:









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
Because my son wants to. And that's reason enough.

























Quote:


Originally Posted by *GC_Mom* 
BEST answer in this entire post.

AGREED.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But am I the only one who thinks it is wrong to make older kids ride in a stroller for containment?

But what if the circumstances merit containment? You can't possibly know enough about every kid in a stroller to make such a broad judgment, IMO.

Quote:

_But I haven't had to "make" him sit in a stroller since he was 2 so I really don't sympathize with the parents who do it strictly for their own convenience._
And there is that holier-than-thou attitude that makes these threads so very hurtful and pointless. Why the need to make a statement like that?

Quote:

_Get a sitter or have someone come to the store with you if your 4 year old really can't handle it without being tied into a stroller._








: Sheesh.
When this thread got resurrected, I cringed; knowing that something like the above statements were inevitable. The wording alone raises every mama hackle I possess.

And so, because it bears repeating:



*Quote:*

_Because my son wants to. And that's reason enough._


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

My kids are ginormous. My two year old looks like an older 3. My 6 year old looks 8.

My 6 year old loved to go for a walk in a stroller while dp and I walked and talked pushing her until very recently...and I bet she'd still like it. She also likes wagons and her bike and her scooter. When she was 4 we bought the biggest double stroller we could find. Much wonderful walking together with her getting in and out the stroller to pick flowers ensued.

My two year old doesn't like them much. She doesn't ride unless she wants too.

It got us all out of the house. I can't imagine why I would care whether someone else's kid is in a stroller if they're happy with it. You're not talking about someone leaving their kid in it to cry while they wander around....


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Yeah I'm not a huge stroller user- maybe that's the problem, that some parents think it's the only form of transport? We also used carriers, and have them walk. But we use the stroller a lot too. It's not like you know whether I use it all.the.time just by seeing me. My 22 month-old is humungo too, people usually think he's pushing three, and my 4yo is also tall and big. With two in many situations, I feel much better with a back up in the form of both a stroller and a carrier. Esp. since ds2 isn't into back carries much these days. I can't really carry both of them back to the car or wherever when the need arises. Nor is walking with two kids going at two different paces a very efficient mode of transport, should we need to walk more than two blocks in under an hour.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

I live in Europe where it is not feasible to drive (conveniently) anywhere in town to do the shopping. I'm grateful for this for environmental reasons, as well as because it means that I support smaller, local shops. What it also means is that we need to walk relatively long distances a few times a week to get the shopping done. Has anyone tried carrying a two year old (or a heavy 1.5 year old?) or a whiney, tired four year old while also trying to carry most of the week's shopping?

It simply isn't feasible and my son stayed in his stroller till he was around four on these shopping trips. Sometimes he wanted to walk along, and that was fine, but he would also get tired and want to be in the stroller. Futhermore, I needed someplace to put all the shopping and my stroller has a great compartment underneath.

As so many people have said already, who cares? There are so very many variables in each and every "stroller situation" that no one can really know. As someone else said, even if it isn't optimal for the child to be in the stroller or even if s/he doesn't want to be at that moment, I'm not always sure that the parents' ease and convenience (for instance, when shopping when tired/overwhelmed, with other children in tow, etc., etc.) should be so lightly dismissed. If it makes Mom's shopping trip easier to have kid in stroller and that makes her happier and a better mom for the rest of the day, do all the anti-stroller brigade find that such a dreadful thing?


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## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

Dude, *I* get tired walking around the mall. I wouldn't expect a little kid to be able to handle it. Mine is only 19 months and I always use the sling, but I wouldn't have a problem using the stroller when she's too heavy for the sling and too tired to walk.


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## UptownZoo (May 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Yes, if your kid wants to, great. But am I the only one who thinks it is wrong to make older kids ride in a stroller for containment?...I really don't sympathize with the parents who do it strictly for their own convenience.

I dunno. Am I the only one who thinks that doing things for my convenience is not necessarily bad?

I make my kids do things they don't want to do. Go ahead, take your best shot.

We talk about AP and forced-independence/convenience/mainstream parenting as if they were diametrically opposed opposites. From where I sit (living real life, with lots of real (very different) kids), there's a sh!tload of parenting that happens in the in-between.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Even when they want to get out and walk? I understand young toddlers...I did that with my son for his own safety when he was younger. But I haven't had to "make" him sit in a stroller since he was 2...

Yeah, well, you had a different kid than my youngest.

Why am I posting to this thread?







Sorry to be snarky, but sheesh. Do we really have to dredge up this whole "aren't the other parents of the world terrible" crap _again_?


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UptownZoo* 
I dunno. Am I the only one who thinks that doing things for my convenience is not necessarily bad?

I make my kids do things they don't want to do. Go ahead, take your best shot.

We talk about AP and forced-independence/convenience/mainstream parenting as if they were diametrically opposed opposites. From where I sit (living real life, with lots of real (very different) kids), there's a sh!tload of parenting that happens in the in-between.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my post above. I do things that my son doesn't want sometimes because they are best for me and I make no apologies about it. If I'm happy, I'm a better mom and that makes my son happy. There is so much "in-between" as uptownzoo says -- in between "selfishness" and listening to your kids' needs . . .

I'd be happy to drop this whole discussion as well!


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

My daughter is four and we almost always use the stroller when we run to the mall. I hate the mall. I've hated it ever since my son was younger - he has PDD-NOS and the mall was totally overwhelming for him, so when we had to go it was just awful. So when my four year old and I go to the mall I want to get in, get what I need, and get the heck out. Having her in a stroller, almost always munching on snacks, makes it easier for those times once every two-three months when we have to go to the mall for us to get done and get going.

The snippet of time you see a mom with her child in a stroller in the mall is just that - a snippet. The hour (almost never more than an hour, thank heavens!) that I'm pushing my happily snacking daughter in the mall in her stroller does not give you an account of the other hours and hours that child spends bouncing all over the house, the yard, the park, our church. Trust me, being "contained" for an hour every month or two isn't going to hurt her in any way.

As for this:

Quote:

Get a sitter or have someone come to the store with you
Let me know what day is best for you - - - I'm a single stay at home mom, have been for almost four years. I try to get all my errands done while my oldest two are at school (so as not to overload my A/S son), tell me just exactly *who* you expect to go with me, or *where* I'm supposed to come up with the money to pay a sitter!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

: I was not trying to sound so harsh in my last post. I really don't have a holier than thou attitude (even if it did come off that way).
If my son wont stay with me while we are somewhere then we leave. I personally know people who FORCE their child to ride in a stroller when we are doing something like walking to the park. And the only way the child will stay in the stroller is if they are strapped/tied in. I seriously wonder what these people (and I am talking about the people who I KNOW PERSONALLY) are going to do when their kids are too big for the stroller. They will have to either get a sitter, bring someone with them or figure out a way to get their kid to co operate. I am only stating the obvious and didn't mean for it to sound so cold.

There are lots of places that I don't take my son because he can't handle it, so I am not trying to imply that I am a perfect parent or that my kid is so much better behaved etc...I certainly understand getting a sitter/having someone go with you isn't an option for everyone, and I am really only talking about the people who I personally know who could make other choices. I am sorry if that wasn't clear or if anyone felt judged, because that is NOT where I am coming from.

Honestly, I have never even payed attention to strangers kids in strollers, as far as how old they were etc...never even thought to!!
The only reason this thread even caught my attention is because I have friends who do this with healthy, capable 4 year olds in child friendly situations when the kid wants to walk. And that just doesn't make sense to me. Another example is that they will drag their kids on long personal shopping trips in the mall and the kids are stuck, very unhappy, in the stroller the whole time. That is the kind of situation that I was thinking about when I said get a sitter. If you can go blow $300 on new clothes I think you can afford a sitter for a couple hours. I guess I should have been more clear the first time, because it sounded mean like I was saying don't take your kid to the grocery store with you.

Again, I see NOTHING wrong with kids riding in strollers at any age!!
I really wasn't trying to sound so judgmental!! It is harder to communicate exactly where I am coming from in forum like this versus in person/on the phone, and I need to be careful how I am coming across.

I am really surprised to see how many people make judgments about the random strangers they see and whether or not their kids should be in strollers.

If the kid is happy and safe, then why would it matter??


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## Trini-soca (Apr 21, 2007)

we catch the bus most everywhere and never have a whole lot of walking to do so my dd who is 4 is not in a stroller. we do have one however. if we are going to do a lot of walking or i know she will be sleepy and in need of a nap i take the stroller. lots of ppl question me when i do have her in the stroller but all i say is you try holding her when she's asleep and that shuts them up.


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## Black Orchid (Mar 28, 2005)

I don't think it is strange. DD1 is 3.5 and she rides and walks. We have a ridealong and I let her on and off as she pleases. We take 2-3 multiple-mile walks in the average day and I cannot imagine her being able to walk them all.

We have a number of different baby/child carriers... maya, zolo, hotsling, ergo, bjorn, etc... but DD1 is too tall for them now and DD2 like to be down with her sister and is way to squirmy.

Its is also really, really hard to keep track of the 3.5 yo in crowded situations. She, like her peers in this thread is easily distracted and can wonder off or get in the way. It is much safer to have her in the stroller, as much as she wants to walk, in these situations. Call me crazy, but I thought that was my primary role as her parent to protect her, even when she wants something else.

And to the person who suggested that you get a sitter or someone to help to avoid a stroller... I cannot believe you really have children. Anyone who has children would immedately see how unrealistic that is.

Strollers (like many of the child/baby equipment out there) are not evil and using them as intended is not going to stain your child's soul or cause them to develop some kind of detachment disorder.


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

I too see a lot of preschoolers, sometimes kids that look elementary school aged, in strollers when we're out at stores and at the mall. I completely understand that little legs get tired, and there is nothing wrong with a stroller in that case.

But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents. I try not to be too judgmental when I don't know anything about the family, but it seems like so many parents force their children into a stroller just so they don't have to deal with them. I see the kid whining and throwing a fit because they don't want to be strapped in. Shouldn't it be a parent's job to take the time to teach their child how to behave in a store? To teach them how to walk by their side and encourage their natural curiosity? I hate it when I see parents using a stroller as a cop out. They just put them in and push them along rather than taking the time to teach them how to behave. It seems to me that's what the OP of this thread was trying to get at...and I agree.


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## zeldabee (Aug 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents. I try not to be too judgmental when I don't know anything about the family, but it seems like so many parents force their children into a stroller just so they don't have to deal with them. I see the kid whining and throwing a fit because they don't want to be strapped in. Shouldn't it be a parent's job to take the time to teach their child how to behave in a store? To teach them how to walk by their side and encourage their natural curiosity? I hate it when I see parents using a stroller as a cop out. They just put them in and push them along rather than taking the time to teach them how to behave. It seems to me that's what the OP of this thread was trying to get at...and I agree.

Well, I'm in the _process_ of trying to teach Sprogly how to behave in a store. I don't force stroller use, but I _have_ insisted that he be strapped into a shopping cart seat because he's too excited/out of control, and on occasion I've basically forced him into the cart. This is rare these days, but it happens. Sometimes it's just not an option to leave the store. I'm a single mom working full-time, and there are only so many hours in a day. I don't always have the luxury of the time to make it into a teaching experience. So, the logical consequence of being out of control in the store is that he has to be contained to be safe. I'm taking into consideration not only his safety, but also the fact that I am not physically _able_ to run, so I can't chase him down if he actually runs off. One person's "cop out" is another's necessity.

Also, kids are different, and I've known lots of kids Sprogly's age and younger who just weren't as inclined to run off, and who weren't as impulsive as he is. He has his good days and his bad days, but he's high energy and very impulsive. It's much better now than it was a year ago, when he was 2.5 years old, and people typically took him for a 4 year old.

If it makes you feel better to judge other's parenting, oh well...go right ahead. But you may not know the whole story.


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## nausicaamom (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents. I try not to be too judgmental when I don't know anything about the family, but it seems like so many parents force their children into a stroller just so they don't have to deal with them. I see the kid whining and throwing a fit because they don't want to be strapped in. Shouldn't it be a parent's job to take the time to teach their child how to behave in a store? To teach them how to walk by their side and encourage their natural curiosity? I hate it when I see parents using a stroller as a cop out. They just put them in and push them along rather than taking the time to teach them how to behave. It seems to me that's what the OP of this thread was trying to get at...and I agree.

My son will be three in June but looks closer to five and has ASD on top of it. He does hold hand fairly well, but does not respond to his name. Walking by my side is a recipe for disaster. There are times when I put him in the stroller and he is whining and asking to walk, but you know what - I'm often at the end of my rope at those times. I fully admit that I use the stroller at those times for my convenience, or a cop out as you put it. He may complain, whine, or even have a bit of a meltdown, but I'm not snapping or yelling at him and this helps me be the mom I want to be. I only have so much energy to spend and pushing myself to the point of loosing it with him in pursuit of some lofty ideal isn't doing anyone any good.

It has been a long, long road to get to the point where we are now and there will be more to travel before he fully understands acceptable behavior. Even a kid without special needs can have lots of problems learning those concepts and believe it or not, it doesn't necessarilly have anything to do with what the parent is or is not doing - it's just the way the kid is wired. Unless you *really* know these people, you have no way of know what happened before or what will happen after. Judgement is not always wrong, but in my mind there are a heck of a lot more important things to spend it on.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldabee* 
Well, I'm in the _process_ of trying to teach Sprogly how to behave in a store. I don't force stroller use, but I _have_ insisted that he be strapped into a shopping cart seat because he's too excited/out of control, and on occasion I've basically forced him into the cart. This is rare these days, but it happens. Sometimes it's just not an option to leave the store. I'm a single mom working full-time, and there are only so many hours in a day. I don't always have the luxury of the time to make it into a teaching experience. So, the logical consequence of being out of control in the store is that he has to be contained to be safe. I'm taking into consideration not only his safety, but also the fact that I am not physically _able_ to run, so I can't chase him down if he actually runs off. One person's "cop out" is another's necessity.

I've forced my kids to ride in shopping carts too. Not only for my convenience but out of consideration for others in the store. Now that they're older, they don't ride in carts of course though they might think it was fun









It was all part of the learning experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some parents who are total control freaks or who don't want to be bothered with their children (I can think of a few actually) but I don't think one can make a judgement with such a small amount of information.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents.

My 3 yo will usually now get into the stroller when she's very tired and wants/needs a nap (I've been asking her if she wants to nap in the bed or in the stroller, and 95% of the time she says in the stroller.) But, 6 months ago, when she needed a nap and was fighting it off, I did have to "force" her into the stroller. She wouldn't be rocked, she wouldn't be carried, anything she knew was going to coax her to sleep was anathema. But, she was also so tired she was falling down, so I considered it better for me, her, and dh, to have 5 minutes of fuss getting her into the stroller (she was calm once we started walking), than hours of cranky, unhappy toddler who would then crash before eating dinner and be up at 11pm or 12am hungry and raring to go.

I'm sure she'll also be in a stroller for a while longer. In NYC, the stroller (foldable, easy to take on the subway) makes it possible for me to get groceries and get to classes and museums and central park with her and know that she has a safe place to nap. I generally work on the practice that if she isn't going to be napping, or if we're going to a place where she can nap, like a friend's house, then we don't need the stroller. Otherwise, we do. But, urban areas and people without cars can be different, I imagine.

I did see an 8-9 year old napping in a stroller at Disney World. I thought it was kind of amusing. (Presumably the family rented it for the 18 month? 2 year? old who was happily eating dinner in mom's lap.) Even if they had just the elementary school girl, I can't see caring about what another parent does. I wouldn't care if my dd did it at that age either, other than thinking with the kids legs dragging on the ground "that can't be comfortable for very long!" Dh said "Do you think there's a chance our stroller will hold me?"


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
I too see a lot of preschoolers, sometimes kids that look elementary school aged, in strollers when we're out at stores and at the mall. I completely understand that little legs get tired, and there is nothing wrong with a stroller in that case.

But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents. I try not to be too judgmental when I don't know anything about the family, but it seems like so many parents force their children into a stroller just so they don't have to deal with them. I see the kid whining and throwing a fit because they don't want to be strapped in. Shouldn't it be a parent's job to take the time to teach their child how to behave in a store? To teach them how to walk by their side and encourage their natural curiosity? I hate it when I see parents using a stroller as a cop out. They just put them in and push them along rather than taking the time to teach them how to behave. It seems to me that's what the OP of this thread was trying to get at...and I agree.

I sometimes still make my six year old ride in the shopping cart, and it is generally under protest. Why? Because for SIX years, i've been working with him on impulse control, and not running off, and not touching every single thing that he walks past (and thereby un-facing the shelves and causing the grocery workers to have to loads of exta work). I'm not cop-ing out, but I also have a 19 month old and an almost 4 year old to get through the store, and I can't focus every bit of my attention on my six year old. I just can't. I try to do shopping trips when he's at school, but it isn't always possible. Really, in a grocery store or similar experience, I can count on him to behave in about the same way as my 19 month old. I haven't given up on teaching him, but it hasn't sunk in yet. Until it does, I have to figure out ways to cope and get food into my home.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kristine233* 
All my kids look like "healthy normal kids". My 6 year old DS rides in the cart when we grocery shop. It sure beats chasing him while he is launching items or having a meltdown. So yeah, its containment.

I should have just posted a "yeah, that" to this post.


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## FancyPants (Dec 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I sometimes still make my six year old ride in the shopping cart, and it is generally under protest. Why? Because for SIX years, i've been working with him on impulse control, and not running off, and not touching every single thing that he walks past (and thereby un-facing the shelves and causing the grocery workers to have to loads of exta work). I'm not cop-ing out, but I also have a 19 month old and an almost 4 year old to get through the store, and I can't focus every bit of my attention on my six year old. I just can't. I try to do shopping trips when he's at school, but it isn't always possible. Really, in a grocery store or similar experience, I can count on him to behave in about the same way as my 19 month old. I haven't given up on teaching him, but it hasn't sunk in yet. Until it does, I have to figure out ways to cope and get food into my home.











Maybe use internet delivery and order your groceries?








I don't know how good they are though.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyPants* 









Maybe use internet delivery and order your groceries?








I don't know how good they are though.









When money isn't super tight, I actually do that! But you can't use coupons, so I only do it when I get a code for free delivery.


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## FancyPants (Dec 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. they all look like healthy kids who can walk. not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?

I haven't read your whole thread. In fact I only read a couple of posts but, yes, my 3.5 yo *is* too "lazy" to walk. Or put another way, he is _extremely_ strong willed. Seriously, this kid has me beat. If I'd only had my ds1, then the phenomenon of older tots in a stroller would be puzzling to me too.

Our walks were becoming punishments for me involving picking ds2 up and carrying him home as he pulled my hair- and I like to walk. A few weeks ago, my neighbors had a garage sale and sold me their stroller for $5. When I brought it home ds2 jumped into it and buckled himself in. He was delighted with it. We start out walking places and he eventually climbs in the stroller.

So I have a 3.5 yo in a stroller.

Also I do use it for containment. We do talk about car safety and what _to do_ (walk on the sidewalk). However, if he won't stay on the sidewalk, he gets buckled in. Walking into the street just isn't negotiable for me.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma* 
just a quick question: we've been to the mall a few times recently, and i keep seeing kids 3-4 years old or more being pushed around in strollers. they all look like healthy kids who can walk. not to be a b*t*h, but what's up with that? is this a way for parents to keep their kids "contained"? are the kids too lazy to walk?


I didn't read all the pages yet







I don't see a problem with that, little kids have little legs that get tired especially walking around a mall. I had mono when I was 8 years old, we went to disney for my birthday and my mom pushed me in a stroller







Also all kids that look perfectly heathy aren't all the time. I had to open mouth and insert foot one time at the park, I was talking to another mama and commenting on how cute her son was. I asked her " Is he close to one also" (my dd was 10 months at the time, they looked the same age), and she then told me he was 3 years old (he was born at 25 weeks gest. and suffered from cp) I would have never known.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

Jumping in here...
I also didnt read ALL the pages (hey, you guys posted 183 messages when I wasnt looking







)
I just got really interested b/c my just-turned 4yo DD rarely walks.
I actually find it disturbing, because I am a self-confessed anti-stroller-snob... though I do try to keep an open mind and assume that the multitude of strollers contain kids who really want to be there, are tired of walking and have parents who cant carry them for whatever reason...

Anyway, DD rarely walks, sometimes we get less than 100M before she flops on the ground and declares that her legs hurt and she cant walk any more. Honestly, we cant find anything physically wrong with her, she just doesnt like walking (though if its a game she can run till the cows come home







)
So I sling her most of the time, in a home-made wrap on my back. it works well, and she can sleep in there, but lets be honest, shes a 4-year-old, and I'm only human! after an hour's walk, I'm BEAT!, and sometimes find myself wishing for a stroller. Of course, I didnt bring one, because I'm a stroller snob.
So maybe all those mamas I see in the malls pushing their kids were smarter than me, as I stumble on sweating and lugging a big kid on my back and a bunch of groceries


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## kochanyk (Jun 30, 2005)

Dunno if anyone brought this up, but I have a BIGGGGGGG 2 y/o- he's about 37-38 inches and 34 lbs- he LOOKS 3 or 4- people always tell me that. YES, I get weird looks having him in a stroller. My husband is deployed and I can only sling one child (the both of them are 57 lbs together and that's 1/2 my weight about). Usually DS walks, but sometimes it's easier on me to push him in the stroller.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

If my child (at any age0 wants to ride in her stroller and if *I* don't mind pushing, then who should care?

Just another wa women divide themselvess from each other. The mplication in this thrread being that mothers who push their older children in strollers are "push-overs."


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

I have a 2 yr old who's on the large size for her age. (actually, she only like 23 months).

Anyhow, I just got a jogging stroller for her. Yes, I make her ride in it in stores, as I have stuff I have to get done, and she tends to run off. (or I get a cart & make her ride there). If I have time, which I usually don't, I let her walk until she refuses to hold my hand any longer. Then it's back in the cart/stroller. I do ahve toys & stuff to try to keep her happy.

I didn't know about baby wearing, other than snugglis, which I don't much like, until she was 16 months old. I do have a mei tai, but I can't carry her in it for long enough for shopping. I wish I could.

I did taking her hiking with friends today. It was long, like 1 1/2 hrs, nad steep hills etc. She walked almost the entire way. Her 2 1/2 yr old friend walked some, rode some. And the 3 yr old that was also with us got tired & rode in my daughter's stroller.

Now my daughter did cooperate & hold hands with someone the whole way we were walking. (most of the way, there were steep drop offs. Not safe unless someone was holding tightly on to her.

I also insist she ride on busy streets. When she gets better about holding my hand in stores, we'll revisit that one. The only reason she got out on the hiking trail is there were lots of people, so no problem having someone else push the stroller or taker her hand so I wasn't trying to do both.

I use to carry her & push the stroller/cart in stores whenever she got restless, but besides that she doesn't like that any better than being ing the stroller or cart, she is just to big for me to do that, now.


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## mmace (Feb 12, 2002)

Quote:

Maybe use internet delivery and order your groceries?
Not an option in every area. I can't even get someone to deliver a pizza out here - they would laugh in my face if I tried to order groceries!


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

I thought of this thread as I wheeled my 4.5 year old 10 blocks to a late dinner. She was too tired and desperate to walk, and instead of having a hungry, tired, melted down kid at dinner I got a hungry, tired kid who felt taken care of and was a delight with her little sleepy eyes. We noticed (it's been awhile since we used it) that she is outgrowing the stroller. Until she does I am hanging on to it. City life with a little one means a lot of walking. Little kids get tired. I do still use a carrier (dd is petite, 34 pounds), and I have carried her home 15 blocks uphill before when she fell asleep on the train, but I'm damn glad to have an umbrella stroller to whip out when it's needed!


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Internet delivery? Talk about exxpesnive.

I have a better idea.

How about those who choose not to use strollers with their sleepy, tired kids, don't. And instead of worrying about other parents who do, worry about yourself and issues you need to work on.

And for those os us who see the benefit of using strollers and how they give relief to tired legs, let's keep on using them.


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## Mamma Mia (Aug 3, 2005)

Not to mention tired parent backs! I needed a massage after that 15 block trek home with a 34 pound kid sleeping on my shoulder!


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepper44* 
But what really irks me is when I see a healthy (looking), loud and active preschooler being forced into a stroller by parents. I try not to be too judgmental when I don't know anything about the family, but it seems like so many parents force their children into a stroller just so they don't have to deal with them. I see the kid whining and throwing a fit because they don't want to be strapped in. Shouldn't it be a parent's job to take the time to teach their child how to behave in a store? To teach them how to walk by their side and encourage their natural curiosity? I hate it when I see parents using a stroller as a cop out. They just put them in and push them along rather than taking the time to teach them how to behave. It seems to me that's what the OP of this thread was trying to get at...and I agree.

I just read this again.










Part of the teaching process is "You're not being safe/following rules right now so you WILL ride in the stroller/cart. When you're ready to be safe/follow rules you can get out." What's wrong with that? My kids DID learn but it took time. My kids may have objected to getting in the stroller/cart sometimes but they always settled down after 30 seconds and had a good time. I used lots of postive reinforcement too. There was no shaming or harsh words.

Now if somone NEVER lets their child try walking, that could be a problem, but that's not what I'm reading here.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Yep, also when my DS was about 3.5 (and looked 5!) he would get really tired when we were out. And when he got tired, he got defiant.
If you had seen me say to him "Get in the stroller. Now." after he punched me in the leg for not buying him the ice cream he suddenly wanted, then ran off, you would have thought I was a horrible mommy. If you saw me 1/2 a block away, pushing a stroller with a blissfully sleeping kid in there, it probably would not have bothered you in the least.


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## kofduke (Dec 24, 2002)

I take a stroller fitness class with both DS's. It's about 1 1/2 miles. DS#1 is free to get out and run/jog/do the resistance band training or other strength work with me when he wants, and then get back in the stroller if he gets tired (he likes to save his energy for the 2 hours we then spend on the playground or in the play space at the mall).

We also live on a very busy street, but are trying our best to walk whenever we can, so if we're going for a walk I sometimes ask him to ride in the buggy until we get a block down, to where there are sidewalks.

And, sometimes if we've had a long day out, he's just tired!


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## birthjunkie27 (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow, I've only read the very first post and I don't have time to read through the pages and pages of replies, but with all due respect to the OP, mind your own business. Geez, why do you care if someone is pushing their kid in a stroller? My son is 4 yrs old and he still occassionally rides in a stroller because his little legs DO GET TIRED.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyPants* 









Maybe use internet delivery and order your groceries?









Expensive, not available everywhere (definately not here!), and some of us like to read our lables and comparison shop before we buy.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

So, Saturday I took the 3 kids to the BUSY zoo. I took the stroller. I told my mom and her comment was "You know, Mackie can walk"

Uh, really? I didn't know that. *insert eyeroll*

Hmmm, crowded crowded place, with a runner (6yr old). Hmm, I don't think I'm going to trust that I can hang onto all 3 kids with my hands alone. I was greatful for the stroller. especially at the end when my 6yr old had a melt down and refused to walk with us and kept bolting.


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