# jacket battle



## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

we are experiencing serious jacket phobia in our house these days. About 3 or 4 weeks ago ds1 decided that no he didn't want to start wearing a jacket out now that it is getting colder. At first we could slowly work him into it by saying that we were going out somewhere fun and that he wouldn't be able to come if he didn't get his jacket on.

Then two weeks ago I took him to a nino meeting and a little boy there hurt him really badly...i'm not sure what he did as I didn't see it but there was a huge mark on his chest(like a bite or a pinch) and the blood vessels were all broken..this was through a onsie and a pair of overalls. Well ds1 was distraught and ever since then getting him to put a jacket on has been torture..he has what looks like panic attacks.

In the past 3 or 4 days the panic seems to have gone but he still fights me bad!!

With my mom the other day he put it on no problem but with me or dh it's a battle.

I have tried to explain to him how sorry I am that he got hurt and that it wasn't ok what that boy did to him. That we arne't going to see that boy again.

Other then that i'm at a loss...other then fighting with him to get it on what can I do??


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

I would give him the choice of a couple of sweaters and the jacket. Let him choose one and don't make him wear it. Just tell him to bring it and let him choose to put it on when he's cold. Put thermal underwear on him under his clothes.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd just take a jacket along with you, and when/if he gets cold, he can put it on.


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

that really isn't an option because it's too cold here....


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD hates jackets as well, I don't force the issue or else it becomes a massive power struggle. I bring a jacket and let her know to tell me when she'd like to wear it. There have been days were it is 10 degrees outside and she is running around in just a long sleeve shirt







when she gets cold enough then she'll put it on.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 
that really isn't an option because it's too cold here....

How cold? Cause if it's cold enough, he'll probably want the jacket sooner.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I would bring the jacket and he will ask for eventually, I would think.

Also, I would stop mentioning the altercation with the other child. IME, my DD will replay experiences like that if I bring them up and then we are back at square one. You've explained it, he understands, let it go. Unless of course, HE is bringing it up. Then you should totally talk to him about it, but if he hasn't mentioned it, let it go.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 
that really isn't an option because it's too cold here....

We're in Wisconsin, and my opinion is that in a month or two, it really will be too cold for a child to choose not to wear a coat, because of the danger of frostbite, etc... but at this point, with highs in the 40s (woo hoo 50s today!), it isn't yet dangerously cold, and so I will let my kids choose for themselves whether or not to wear their coats (though we always have them along and I occasionally mention the option).

I don't know where you live, but I think it's worth considering what the danger is of his not wearing a coat until he feels cold.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Seriously, I think unless a child has serious sensory issues (as in, they honestly don't feel the cold and it could be really dangerous) *most* children will seek warmth when they feel uncomfortable (too cold). That is a basic human survival instinct, one which I have no problem letting my daughter experience. That having been said though, being her mama, I do bring a sweater/coat and happily give it to her when she expresses she is chilly etc -- without lecture ( "I told you it was cold") or sanctions.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

If it hasn't turned into a power struggle, it is the rare child that won't be willing to put on a coat right away after stepping outside when it is really cold. And it is unlikely that any harm will come from being outside for a minute before putting it on. I think many toddlers just don't want to put on the coat inside because it isn't cold there.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 
that really isn't an option because it's too cold here....

I live in MN and even when it's 50 below, I don't fight my kids, just bring the jackets, mittens, hats along. Once they get outside, we always have to turn back around and put everything on. Only have had to do it once with each child. They are quick learners.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

my dd (4) has had issues with coats from age 1 on. I don't argue it. I try to find coats that are less bulky, which is what she likes. right now she doesn't complain about being cold. when it is snowing she will not want the coat and within a few minutes she will want it becuase she is cold.

i stopped worrying about it two years ago, not worth the struggle.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
How cold? Cause if it's cold enough, he'll probably want the jacket sooner.

This sounds really logical...and I always thought this is what I would do, rather than get into a battle over a coat. But here's the thing. DS throws a fit over me just CARRYING the freaking coat for him, once he's decided he's not going to wear it. Not only that, but when we're out and he does finally get cold, what he wants is for me to pick him up and carry him and let him snuggle his arms inside of MY coat. He's 3 and it kills my back to carry him so for a variety of reasons this just doesn't work. So I want him to just PUT ON HIS DARN COAT HIMSELF.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
This sounds really logical...and I always thought this is what I would do, rather than get into a battle over a coat. But here's the thing. DS throws a fit over me just CARRYING the freaking coat for him, once he's decided he's not going to wear it. Not only that, but when we're out and he does finally get cold, what he wants is for me to pick him up and carry him and let him snuggle his arms inside of MY coat. He's 3 and it kills my back to carry him so for a variety of reasons this just doesn't work. So I want him to just PUT ON HIS DARN COAT HIMSELF.

My ds is like that in the house. He doesn't want to wear enough clothes, then he wants to hang out on my lap for warmth







.

Have you tried carrying the coat in a bag or maybe having a different coat that stays in a bag so when he refuses you don't have to have the exact coat that he refused to offer him. KWIM? Always offer coat A but bring coat B along out of sight. He might need a face-saving way to change his mind.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

I sense there is an answer that you want to hear that you aren't hearing. What is that answer?

To me the solution seems pretty logical. Bring along the jacket - in a bag if necessary. When he gets cold, he'll put it on. The less said about it by everyone the better. I would make sure the coat is reasonably comfortable and if there is an easy to option to get anothe coat (from the thrift or a hand me down) I may well do that just to avoid the struggle. Again, I'd simply have another coat and offer it with a very casual, "this may be more comfortable" and leave it at that.


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

well in a month or two it could be -35 out...(winnipeg Canada) skin can freeze in less then a min if exposed. I do not want to set a precident of you can wear a jacket if you want...it's to dangerous. My son is very stubborn and will refuse even if cold(already prooven that when he took his jacket off at the park and was frozen solid but wopuld not put it back on. He is also a las=te talker so he doesn't have the language skills to express why he wont wear a jacket. I need him to be use to wearing a jacket so in two months time when there is no choice as it is a health hazard he will know he has to wear a jacket before leaving the house.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
DS throws a fit over me just CARRYING the freaking coat for him, once he's decided he's not going to wear it. Not only that, but when we're out and he does finally get cold, what he wants is for me to pick him up and carry him and let him snuggle his arms inside of MY coat. He's 3 and it kills my back to carry him so for a variety of reasons this just doesn't work. So I want him to just PUT ON HIS DARN COAT HIMSELF.

My rule of thumb: I cannot control what they will or will not do. But they may not control what I will or will not do either! If I can't carry him, then I don't carry him. If I want to carry a coat for him -- then I will. If he won't wear a coat -- I will not force him. If he wants to throw a kicking screaming fit over what I am doing -- then I won't stop him. Nor will I jump through unreasonable hoops to prevent a tantrum. Its one thing to choose my battles, but quite another to walk on egg shells, kwim? I can be kind and empathetic without letting my child dictate my every move.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
Have you tried carrying the coat in a bag or maybe having a different coat that stays in a bag so when he refuses you don't have to have the exact coat that he refused to offer him. KWIM? Always offer coat A but bring coat B along out of sight. He might need a face-saving way to change his mind.

You know...that is a very gentle and thoughtful suggestion, and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

But...maybe I'm having a bad day, or maybe I'm just moving away from hard-core AP as my son gets older, or something else, I'm not sure...honestly, I do not want to raise a child who I have to HIDE a simple thing like a jacket from. It just seems kind of, um, "high-maintenance" is really the only word I have to describe it.

And FWIW, we don't have mutliple coats lying around that I can just stash extras away in convenient locations. He has one heavy coat and one lighter jacket in his current size. I did try taking him to the store to let him pick one out himself, thinking that might help -- he refused to try any on.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

What about setting a "jacket temperature", like a cut off for how cold you are comfortable with him going without the jacket. Talk to him about it beforehand. If you don't already have one, set up a thermometer and talk about how those numbers tell us how cold it is outside. Discuss what those numbers mean. "When it gets to X degrees or lower, it becomes very unsafe and unhealthy for us to be outside without a coat." Then only insist on a jacket when it's those temps. If you start now, you might be able to imprint your expectation of a jacket when it gets that cold out.

I have had good luck with explaining things like this to my DD. It seems that understanding the whys of it all ahead of time really helps when it comes time to cooperate with something I've deemed non-negotiable.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 
I need him to be use to wearing a jacket so in two months time when there is no choice as it is a health hazard he will know he has to wear a jacket before leaving the house.

To me this makes about as much logical sense as saying that he should have been wearing his jacket in August so he didn't get out of the habit or that he should be buckled into a car set while in the house just so he doesn't forget how later when he's in the car. I think it would be very frustrating for a child to try to understand the logic of needing to wear a jacket when it isn't cold so they will be able to do it later. It doesn't make sense.

With an older child I'd suggest what another poster did and pick a cut off temperature and give the child a way to check it - thermometer outside of the window or on weather.com

As far as putting it in the bag, to me it sounds like you want to continue in the power struggle. If it ended the power struggle to simply put it in a bag and leave it be until it was actually cold why isn't that good enough? What would be a good enough resolution for you right now? Does the child have to say "I was wrong I'll wear a coat when it isn't even that cold just so later I will know how to?"


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
You know...that is a very gentle and thoughtful suggestion, and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.

But...maybe I'm having a bad day, or maybe I'm just moving away from hard-core AP as my son gets older, or something else, I'm not sure...honestly, I do not want to raise a child who I have to HIDE a simple thing like a jacket from. It just seems kind of, um, "high-maintenance" is really the only word I have to describe it.

And FWIW, we don't have mutliple coats lying around that I can just stash extras away in convenient locations. He has one heavy coat and one lighter jacket in his current size. I did try taking him to the store to let him pick one out himself, thinking that might help -- he refused to try any on.










My ds never will try on clothes, either, which makes me glad everything is from a thrift store!

I don't think of it as hiding but as being non-confrontational. There is a bit of a threat in taking something that he has declared he isn't going to wear. It implies that you are going to try to make him wear it. It is a constant reminder of the power struggle when it is in sight.


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 

With my mom the other day he put it on no problem but with me or dh it's a battle.



This statement caught my eye in your original post. Did you ask your mom how she approached it?

I understand your concern with the weather and a coat being necessary. I live in the northeast and, though I don't think we get quite as cold as you do, it is cold enough that I think a coat is necessary too.

I would, and do, simply tell my son it is time to get his coat on and put it on him. I am very matter of fact. I know my ds will be miserable outside without a coat on, even when he doesn't want to put it on when we are leaving. This is one of those things that I just do in a decisive manner. I agree with the poster who said that tactics like hiding a coat seem high maintenance. I'm not going to play games to get simple, daily tasks done. This is just one of those things that I wouldn't let turn into a power struggle. I don't think a 2 year old is old enough to decide when to wear a coat or not. And, if it's below freezing or even approaching that, he's wearing a coat. Even if it's in the 40's, we can still have a nasty, cold wind. The car seat issue is another thing because it is adjusted differently for a bulky coat. If it is unusually warm, I will take the time to adjust so he doesn't have to wear his coat, but it takes time and is not easy to do. So, once we enter coat weather, I don't like to have to adjust it every single time we get in the car based on whether or not he feels like wearing his coat.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

myrmom, I see form your siggy that your dh is a bit over 2. I do think you are right to be concerned about this issue. I think the "bring the jacket along and they will ask for it if cold" ONLY works for children who are at a developmental stage where they are able to cognitively understand that they feel cold, and will feel warmer if they put a coat on. Not ALL 2-year olds (especially young 2's) are there yet. Some are, some aren't. Some very young toddlers are not yet cognitively able to understand that the coat will keep them warm, or they haven't yet made the connection between clothing and feelings of warmth/cold.

I don't worry about my 4 1/2 year old at all. We just carry coats along/keep them in the car, and I know she will ask for it if she is cold. However, she probably didn't reach that stage, cognitively,where she was able to understand that she feels cold, the coat/hat/glove etc keep her warm until around age 3 (granted, she is/was developmentally delayed, so that might have made a difference. But, she defintiely went through a stage where she would pull hats, mitten, coats off, even though I KNEW she felt cold. She just didn't want to wear them, and didn't make the connection that they kept her warm.

My just 2-year old is a bit different. I dont' fully *trust* her to put a coat on if she feels cold. Sometimes she takes it off just because she doesn't want it on, or her big sister takes it off (so just copying, not going by her own feelings of warmth). Often times she just doesn't want to wear it, but then wants to be held (my body warmth), so I know she is cold. I think she is *starting* to reach a stage of cognitive development where she says it is "so cold" and will willingly put on a jacket/hat. But she is just *starting* to get there. We will see how the rest of the winter plays out.

As far as what I do...well if I know we are going to be outside for any length of time in weather which is really cold then I do *make* her wear a coat. Sometimes it is a struggle, but I don't feel I can trust her to ask for a coat if she is cold. As her mother, I need to make sure her physiucal needs are met (including warmth), if she isn't at a developmental stage yet where she can do so for herself. I don't force a coat if we are just going from the house to the car to another inside area (no walking)..but it never gets THAT cold here (where you would get frostbite in minutes). But, if we are going to the playground, or walking any length of time, or other outside activity and I KNOW it will feel cold then I do force the coat issue. And, when I say I KNOW it will be cold, I go by feel, not temp. I live in an area where it can get very windy. THe wind makes a huge difference. Forty-five, sunny and calm can be quite pleasant, and I never force the coat issue if it is sunny and not-windy. But, forty-five, cloudy and windy is totally different and can be miserably cold. So, if it is one of those days where you KNOW they will be cold, then yes, I do make her wear a coat. By next winter (and maybe even later this winter) , I am sure she will be cognitively and developmentally able to make those decisions for herself, and I can just carry it..but I don't think she is there yet.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

Then two weeks ago I took him to a nino meeting and a little boy there hurt him really badly...i'm not sure what he did as I didn't see it but there was a huge mark on his chest(like a bite or a pinch) and the blood vessels were all broken..this was through a onsie and a pair of overalls. Well ds1 was distraught and ever since then getting him to put a jacket on has been torture..he has what looks like panic attacks.
I'm not understanding the connection between the pinching and not wanting to wear a jacket?









Quote:

At first we could slowly work him into it by saying that we were going out somewhere fun and that he wouldn't be able to come if he didn't get his jacket on.
I think I would try putting it on without talking about it at all. I've been trying this lately with my DD for diaper changes. I just walk up to her. Show her the clean diaper. Motion for her to lie down and start changing. It doesn't work every time but often she just goes along with me. And this is a HUGE improvement over the GIANT power struggle that it had been for months.

Speaking of...I hear a nap-struggle going on upstairs. Bye.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:

To me this makes about as much logical sense as saying that he should have been wearing his jacket in August so he didn't get out of the habit or that he should be buckled into a car set while in the house just so he doesn't forget how later when he's in the car. I think it would be very frustrating for a child to try to understand the logic of needing to wear a jacket when it isn't cold so they will be able to do it later. It doesn't make sense
Well, I think it IS cold now, where the OP lives. It may not have reached the "frostbite in minutes" level of cold, but it is still COLD. It's not liek she is wanting him to wear a jacket in warm weather, so he is used to it in the cold. It IS cold now (and I am guessing still cold enough to be dangerous or at least very, very uncomfortable w/o a jacket).


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
Well, I think it IS cold now, where the OP lives. It may not have reached the "frostbite in minutes" level of cold, but it is still COLD. It's not liek she is wanting him to wear a jacket in warm weather, so he is used to it in the cold. It IS cold now (and I am guessing still cold enough to be dangerous or at least very, very uncomfortable w/o a jacket).


I'm with you! I am in the "when it's cold out, we wear a jacket" camp. Of course, we don't wear jackets when it is warm or hot out. But, I think it would be more confusing to be inconsistent with jacket wearing in cold weather. Essentially saying "you don't have to wear a jacket when it's cold out, but maybe you do when it's very cold and you certainly do when it's very very cold."


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## Rockies5 (May 17, 2005)

I'm not going to assume you want to contine to fight with your two year old.

I am just wondering what's so important that you need to take a toddler out in -35 degree weather.

It gets cold here too. If the kids refuse coats or shoes I just tell them to wait for me on the porch. After a minute or two (frotebite is still treatable then







) they come back in and ask for help getting the coat and shoes on and thats the end of the struggle.

I don't know that I would assume too much about it. Like that he was hurt once while waring a coat is the reason he doen't want one now. Wear a few layers of regular clothes and a wool hat and gloves, or take the choice away.

I mean if it's REALLY too cold and it isn't a choice (you've been given many ideas here and have shot down all of them) then don't give him one. Surely having to wear a coat is more gentle then having your skin freeze off.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
Well, I think it IS cold now, where the OP lives. It may not have reached the "frostbite in minutes" level of cold, but it is still COLD. It's not liek she is wanting him to wear a jacket in warm weather, so he is used to it in the cold. It IS cold now (and I am guessing still cold enough to be dangerous or at least very, very uncomfortable w/o a jacket).

If it is cold now then it has nothing to do with what happens two months from now so why use that as an excuse.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama* 

I think I would try putting it on without talking about it at all. I've been trying this lately with my DD for diaper changes. I just walk up to her. Show her the clean diaper. Motion for her to lie down and start changing. It doesn't work every time but often she just goes along with me. And this is a HUGE improvement over the GIANT power struggle that it had been for months.
.

I lost my voice three times when my son was young and I relearned that lesson every time! Less is often more.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Just as a frienldly request to everyone participating (and no one in particular







:

Please let's keep our tone supportive and remember the GD Forum's goal:

Quote:

*To help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children.*
Let's each do our part to keep this forum an encouraging space for everyone who expresses the intent to learn more about Gentle Discipline.

Thanks


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twocoolboys* 
I'm with you! I am in the "when it's cold out, we wear a jacket" camp. Of course, we don't wear jackets when it is warm or hot out. But, I think it would be more confusing to be inconsistent with jacket wearing in cold weather. Essentially saying "you don't have to wear a jacket when it's cold out, but maybe you do when it's very cold and you certainly do when it's very very cold."

Why would it be confusing? I'm not consistent in wearing a jacket when it's cold. Quite often, dh is wearing a jacket, and dd and ds2 are wearing jackets, and ds1 and I aren't wearing jackets. Sometimes, I wear a jacket because it's "cold", then take it off, because it's not that cold. Some days, dd wants a jacket when it's cold, and other days, she's quite happy without one when everyone else has one on.

If it got cold enough to be dangerous here, I'd make sure everyone was wearing a jacket. But, if it's not dangerous, why push it?


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

One thing that has worked for us is the Hokey Pokey song. Our version goes like this:

You put your right hand in
Don't take your right hand out
You put your right hand in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
And you put your snowsuit on
That's what it's all about.


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## mamaginabean (Feb 21, 2006)

I'm also in the camp of "bring it with you, and he'll put it on if he gets cold". Just offer it to him when you're out and about, but don't force it. He'll wear it if he gets cold. And it's not really a health hazard not to wear one, unless he's getting frostbite.


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why would it be confusing? I'm not consistent in wearing a jacket when it's cold. Quite often, dh is wearing a jacket, and dd and ds2 are wearing jackets, and ds1 and I aren't wearing jackets. Sometimes, I wear a jacket because it's "cold", then take it off, because it's not that cold. Some days, dd wants a jacket when it's cold, and other days, she's quite happy without one when everyone else has one on.

If it got cold enough to be dangerous here, I'd make sure everyone was wearing a jacket. But, if it's not dangerous, why push it?

Wow! Really?! This never occured to me as a possibility! This is going to be life changing, for sure!

When it's cold out, my two year old is wearing a jacket. I am not waiting for the temperature to be "life threatening" before I put one on him. Little bodies get cold faster than big bodies. The wind here is quite wicked at times and even with a jacket on, he turns his little body into me trying to stay warm. No jacket is not an option for him. Now, my seven year old is old enough to figure it out for himself. He's also big enough to not be as affected by the cold wind on a walk through a parking lot or to run indoors to get it if we are playing outside.


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:

When it's cold out, my two year old is wearing a jacket. I am not waiting for the temperature to be "life threatening" before I put one on him. Little bodies get cold faster than big bodies. The wind here is quite wicked at times and even with a jacket on, he turns his little body into me trying to stay warm. No jacket is not an option for him.
This is how I feel as well...it is just not healthy for him to be going without a jacket...period.

Quote:

One thing that has worked for us is the Hokey Pokey song. Our version goes like this:

You put your right hand in
Don't take your right hand out
You put your right hand in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
And you put your snowsuit on
That's what it's all about.
Thanks for the suggestion I will give this a try...I usually do fun songs to get things done I guess my brain just froze up on this one...lol.

Quote:

If it is cold now then it has nothing to do with what happens two months from now so why use that as an excuse.
Becasue it is cold now and it two months it will be even colder...the jackets are smaller and the gear that goes with it is less...I would rather he get use to the idea of wearing a jacket and mitts now when there is less to put on...therefore less to battle with.

Quote:

I'm not going to assume you want to contine to fight with your two year old.

I am just wondering what's so important that you need to take a toddler out in -35 degree weather.
everything...it can be minus 35 degree weather here for months at a time...I can't stay locked in doors...things need to be done, groceries need to be bought...etc.

Quote:

Not ALL 2-year olds (especially young 2's) are there yet. Some are, some aren't. Some very young toddlers are not yet cognitively able to understand that the coat will keep them warm, or they haven't yet made the connection between clothing and feelings of warmth/cold.
This is my biggest issue with all the suggestions thus far of letting him decide...he is not ready for that.

Quote:

I'm not understanding the connection between the pinching and not wanting to wear a jacket
cuz i think he is afraid to go out.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I'm not sure if this has been asked: Are you doing long johns and/or layers already? I know my little ones have always resisted wearing coats that required a struggle to put on....perhaps if he's already wearing layers, he might be fine with throwing on a warm sweater and slightly lighter/less cumbersome jacket that might be sufficient enough to keep him safe from the weather?

Heck, what do I know...we wore sandals today


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twocoolboys* 
Wow! Really?! This never occured to me as a possibility! This is going to be life changing, for sure!

Was there a reason for that?

I asked why it would be confusing to sometimes wear jackets and sometimes not wear jackets, even if it's cold out? Was there any particular reason to avoid answering by giving me snotty sarcasm?


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

Boy do i hate threads liiket his







. More sarcasm than anything! To the original poster...I'm really not sure what to tell you. I think you get offended by someone offering a suggestion besides wearing a coat. But I really don't know how the heck to get a little kid to WANT to wear a coat if they feel that strongly about not...and if you feel that strongly about your child wearing one, I don't know what to tell you to try









Would you be even willing to try any suggestions? Like taking the child out without a coat and bringing it along, and then obviusly when he's too cold just trying to put it on him without making a huge deal of it? I think the biggest thing is that kids need to feel in control a lot. By taking him out carrying the coat, he knows he is just not being ordered around. Maybe then if you wait a few minutes, you knwo he's cold, slip the coat on. I'll bet it works?


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

It sounds like the first thing you need to address is his fear of going out. I could be completely wrong here but the jacket issue seems like just a symptom of the fear he's developed after seeing the other child get hurt. I would deal with this first (sorry I don't have any suggestions at the moment on how to actually do that), and in the meantime bring a jacket in a bag like someone mentioned or leave an extra in the car I know you said you don't have any extras but is there a thrift shop nearby so you can get a "car jacket" to leave there?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

If him wearing the jacket is a non-negotiable for you, treat it like you would him having to ride in a car seat in the car. Like it or not, it's what's done. Be matter of fact about it and move on (he may not move on as quickly, but you do, because that's just what's done).


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Okay,

*No more sarcasm.*

This is not personal. Sarcasm is counter-productive and less-than-gentle to put it mildly. Unkindness toward one another isn't adding to the forum's content nor helping reach our goal of learning more about Gentle Discipline. If you don't have anything helpful to add to the thread or the fourm, please refrain from posting.

Please see Post #30. Any problems with this, feel free to PM me or heartmama.

Thanks


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## Dal (Feb 26, 2005)

oops


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## Dal (Feb 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar* 
I lost my voice three times when my son was young and I relearned that lesson every time! Less is often more.

Dear Roar, That is very funny considering your user name.









I think the OP is asking her question not because she wants to hear others tell her "Well, just force your child to put the darn coat on! This is a safety issue, after all!" but because she wants peace and respects her child and is hoping to find an agreeable way to meet both of their needs (her need to contribute to her son's safety and to not have stressful encounters with her son, and his need to be comfortable and safe, and to not have conflicts over his coat).

Here are some ideas/thoughts that may be helpful:

One thing that occurred to me in relation to his chest being hurt: could it be that he was physically hurt in a way that makes putting the coat on painful? Sometimes pain comes and go, so maybe it was minimal when grandma asked him to put it on.

Simon has been deciding whether to wear a coat or not since before he was 1. I don't think this is due to genius or anything like that. He's not keen to wear uncomfortable clothes though, so if he were turning down clothes due to discomfort it may seem as though he wasn't making the connection (when really he'd far rather be a bit chilly than wear scratchy mittens or a clausterphobic-feeling coat, only turning to these when he was really cold enough to flip the balance of his preferences). Maybe your son would surprise you and show that he does know that when he's cold he should put on a coat? Maybe turn the heat down enough to make your house a bit chilly and after he comes out of a bath see if he knows enough to want a towel and some clothes to put on to get warmed up? Or, you could under-dress him so that he would be leaving the house in just a t-shirt and pants, making the coat far more attractive to him (at least until he gets used to wearing it, when you could drop this tactic). This way, if he's truly too warm wearing the coat now (assuming he'd have long sleeves under it), he would then find it comfortable to wear and uncomfortable not to wear.

Maybe talk about the issue when he's in a really good mood and tell him how you feel about it rather than waiting until you are in the midst of a struggle (I don't know if you already do this). Maybe you could even make a game out of it -- at some point when you are playing with him, you might pretend you are in a freezing cold environment building igloos or whatever might appeal to him and see if he thinks it would be fun to get into his coat for that??? This might help him get used to the idea and to wearing his coat. You could have a lot of winter gear out and go all out with this to help him get used to the idea of bundling up -- humorously and dramatically putting on a bunch of scarves, a couple of hats, and so on. Maybe you and him could build warm memories around this and then he'll be warmed up to the idea when he really needs to get bundled up (hilarious puns, eh?).

My son loves when I make up stories for him. Maybe make up stories that include scenes in which he puts on a coat, and so do his favourite people and characters he likes from books/t.v./whatever? If he's like my son, he'll also want to make sure that the train is wearing a coat, and so are his stuffed animals (they can be pretend coats), and he'd get a kick out of running around the house putting imaginary coats on the toilet, the fridge, and so on.

I want to add that this doesn't mean that you have to devote a lot of extra time to this issue. What I have in mind instead is to incorporate it into the time that you are already spending with him. I often find that these things are quite fun for me to do -- far more fun than pushing Simon's train around the track for the millionth time or being a spectator who says "Here comes the train!" again and again and again. If you're going to the library anyway, look for books with a winter theme so you can talk about the coats and scarves... If you are making up stories, include warm clothes... If you are thinking of something to do, maybe try a "get bundled up game" . . . that kind of thing.

Maybe during the struggle try to stay super loving and gentle and see if that improves things (again, I don't know if you are already doing this, but I find that parents often think that discipline requires sternness even though their goals would be better met by attachment and a display of concern rather than a display of "I mean business," "you have no choice," or an otherwise threatening countenance). Then again, if you are coming across as wishy washy or you are already totally loving it up with him, maybe try a slightly firmer tone/approach? I've resorted to a slight change in tone to help get my son's teeth brushed. If I'm not a bit more assertive, he wants me to stop after 5 seconds. If I'm subtly more assertive (and slightly coercive, probably, but in such a minimal way that he doesn't really get that this is the case), his teeth get brushed. Since this is a safety issue, I feel it's o.k. and it works. While I feel slightly uncomfortable with it, he doesn't even seem to notice and I mix it up with enough light moments that I have his full co-operation throughout the experience (or maybe almost his full co-operation).

Another idea, from one of Barbara Coloroso's books (though I can't remember the name of it): explain to him in a way he can understand what happens when people get too cold. Maybe giving him this information would help him choose to wear the coat. Coloroso talk about a teacher explaining that when we don't wear coats and it's really cold out, our organs start to freeze, the first thing to go are our hands, and so on. Maybe that type of information in an age-appropriate way would help him to understand why wearing a coat he may not find all that appealing is still a good idea. After letting her students know why they should wear their coats, the teacher had far fewer coat-related struggles. When she initially asked why they wear them, they responded: "Because my mom (or whoever) says I have to." They had no internal motivation to wear the coats and found putting them on a hassle. Mom wasn't there to force the issue, so they didn't want to wear them. She helped the internal motivation along and presto, they put the coats on by themselves. (I'm sure I'm spelling this out more than you need me to! I wouldn't expect your son to attain full internal motivation over this, but if you can up his internal motivation a bit, it may go a long way, or at least it might help.)

We often compare unhealthy foods to medicines and we compare helmets to seatbelts. Maybe there is a safety issue your son understands that you could compare this one to so that it's easier for him to understand your concern? Might be a stretch, but if he understands that sunscreen helps to keep him safe in the summer, maybe that would be a helpful analogy? "Do you remember how we put a lot of sunscreen on you to protect you from the sun at the beach? We were worried that you might get burned. We need to worry about the sun when it's really hot outside. Sometimes we need to worry about the cold too. It's sometimes so cold outside that we can get frostbite. (Maybe a joke about this term or personifying the cold air would help?) This means that we actually start to freeze! Can you imagine! (I think keeping the tone light helps prevent it from being too scary.) See how cold and hard this is (showing him some frozen food). Your body could get cold and hard like this if you were outside when it is really, really cold out. We wouldn't let that happen to you though! That is why we wear coats. Sunscreen protects us from the sun, and our winter clothes protect us from the cold." Maybe the analogy just confuses things and it would be better to just give him the basic information (if you haven't already).

Best wishes!


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5* 
One thing that has worked for us is the Hokey Pokey song. Our version goes like this:

You put your right hand in
Don't take your right hand out
You put your right hand in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
And you put your snowsuit on
That's what it's all about.

This is brilliant! I'm going to try this next time.

To those who don't understand why the OP put up the thread....I think it was in the hope of getting suggestions that were actually helpful to her situation, rather than some variation on "Just let it go, let him figure out that he's cold for himself," which for reasons that both she and I gave, doesn't particularly "work". Also not helpful is the advice, "Just don't go out anywhere when it's cold." I am really struggling with expressing how "off" this seems to me. I am all for gentle discipline but I don't think that has anything to do with allowing a child's refusal to wear appropriate-weather clothing to dictate that everyone simply stay home. As mentioned, groceries need to be bought, older children need to be taken to school and/or activities, etc.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Maybe a poncho would be more comfortable. My dd had a windproof fleece poncho that had a drawstring at the bottom. She had more freedom of movement and all we had to do was pop it over her head. Not to mention it became the "invisibility cloak" from Harry Potter which she LOVED even before 2 yo........

We also live in a VERY cold climate. We have done a variety of things to deal with this issue. My dd also did not like putting on coats. And the more we tried to force it, the more she dug her heels in. We (my dh and I) are in the "let it be" camp. I know that is not something you are willing to try, but I just wanted to add another testiment that it can be done in cold weather and they do learn. We had our coat issues when my dd was 18 months and she did not talk until well after 2. Luckily, we did not have to deal with potential frostbite because we let her experiment with cold weather and clothing before it got that cold. By the time we hit really cold weather, she understood that she wanted a coat.

But, since we did try also to accomodate her issues with wearing coats in general, there are some things we did for brief periods of time that satisfied my need to have her dressed warm enough and her need to not have a coat on that might help you. Layers with a big sweatshirt on top is sufficient for my dd down to 15 degrees F (not sure what that in in Celcius.....). It is sufficient for me too. I HATE wearing coats myself and unless it is really really cold, I go without. We also let her walk to the car wrapped in a blanket. A jogging suit made out of nylon (windproof) with a sweater underneath is pretty warm. But the Poncho was the best solution we found.

We no longer have any coat issues at 3 yo.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

A "trick" that I use sometimes: I hide "treats" (a couple of dd's little toys) in her jacket pockets for her to find after she puts her jacket. I say "put on your jacket and find the treats in the pockets!". Hey, it works sometimes... lol


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

My daughter (4) fights a jacket and I just don't push the issue. We were out canvassing for Planned Parenthood in the cold the other day and walked about 20 feet before she wanted it. Odds are, he'll put it on when he gets cold. In the meantime, dress him in layers and offer the jacket but don't push it if he says no. My mom makes a huge issue about my dd not being in a jacket, and it just annoys us both. I think she's more concerned about what other people think than whether or not Rylie is cold.


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

thank you to everyone who has given us some suggestions in getting his coat on....i will be trying different ideas. I appreciate some of your very thoughtful comments.


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## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

My DS1 is a little younger than yours and is also putting up a struggle to wear a coat but here (CO) it is a little more negotiable. One of my son's reasoning is he doesn't want to cover up the shirt he has on - he is getting pretty particular about his clothing.

I'm not sure of your exact circumstances but here are a few of my thoughts that haven't been mentioned:
- Do you have an attached garage? If so you could heat up your vehicle and bypass the elements by going through the house to the garage. You could bring the coat along and explain to your DS that he has to wear his coat once you get to the destination but once you get inside (for example inside the store) he can take it off.
- If you do have to go outside to get to your vehicle can you heat the vehicle first and allow your son to take his coat off once you get in the car? I know I don't like to wear coats in the car because it is so uncomfortable, it must be more uncomfortable to wear a coat with a carseat AND once the car heats up it just gets too hot!
-If possible limit the time playing outside when it is cold if he won't wear his coat and you consider it a must.

As for him giving grandma no trouble putting his coat on I'm not surprised. My DS doesn't like his teeth brushed and he lets grandma do it no problem. She doesn't do it any differently than we do it either. I think little ones are more comfortable resisting mom and dad than others.

Good luck and try to stay warm this winter!!!









SJ


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:

'm not sure of your exact circumstances but here are a few of my thoughts that haven't been mentioned:
- Do you have an attached garage? If so you could heat up your vehicle and bypass the elements by going through the house to the garage. You could bring the coat along and explain to your DS that he has to wear his coat once you get to the destination but once you get inside (for example inside the store) he can take it off.
- If you do have to go outside to get to your vehicle can you heat the vehicle first and allow your son to take his coat off once you get in the car? I know I don't like to wear coats in the car because it is so uncomfortable, it must be more uncomfortable to wear a coat with a carseat AND once the car heats up it just gets too hot!
-If possible limit the time playing outside when it is cold if he won't wear his coat and you consider it a must.
i wish this were an option as i would have no problems with it...but I dont drive so when we go out it's on the bus.


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

I've been thinking about this-- how does your son do with transitions? My oldest dd has a rough time with transitions, and getting out the door is often awful-- she doesn't like her shoes, her coat, she doesn't want to go at all, etc...

The best thing I have found to help with this is to allow LOTS of time to get out the door, so that I'm not rushed and adding more stress. Another idea: does your son know the trick of putting his coat on by flipping it over his head? I could try to explain, but it's much clearer to watch the animation here. He might think it's fun?

Good luck!

ZM


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

(note: editing this after finishing my post and finishing reading the thread as it is right now...later I realize that you're on the bus, but I'm leaving it anyway, b/c it's what I wrote and thought, and who knows, maybe someone will find it valuable or something silly like that...but I did want the OP to know that I know that there's no CAR involved, so the OP doesn't have to react to my very first paragraph and not follow my thoughts to the end!)

I thought you weren't supposed to wear bulky coats in car seats anyway? That the bulk of it decreases the safety factor? So the coat issue would be one repeated, if you're putting it on to walk to the car, then off at the car, then on at the store, off getting back into the car, etc...if I were doing that with myself, I'd eventually say ENOUGH ALREADY! I'd think "get me some silk long johns and let's just be DONE with the dang coats!









Then again, you're saying "jacket", which to me is an unlined garment mainly to cut the wind factor a bit, so obviously I'm getting confused as to how a jacket is going to help when it's freezing outside anyway!







:

Just yesterday we had the reverse issue...outside my house it was cold, so I had us in coats. Then just a minute away it was bright sunshine, we were sweating, and DS refused to take off his coat. Even though I was Ergo'ing him once we got out of the car). The coat made it really tight (I have a hard time adjusting the side straps so I try to not undo them as a rule) and made us BOTH even hotter, but he REFUSED.

In the "it's too warm" case, it was no problem to ultimately respect his wishes. But then again, my guy DOES ask for coats and blankets (and SOCKS, which is crazy to me b/c I am NOT a sock wearer even when my feet have icicles on them!) when he's cold, and he's also 2, so experience is different from your 2 year old to mine...

Going over to the pinch/bite/afraid to go out thing...boy, I personally would really listen my son, if he were having THAT big a reaction. I'd let my hubby do the shopping (I do that anyway, half of the time, LOL), I'd go out for errands after DH got home, or on his weekends (easy for me to say, his "weekends" consist of Tues, Wed, and Thurs, when everything is open and available). I'd do everything I could to let DS heal emotionally and perhaps physically from that experience. Considering that our boy IS a biter, if only on OUR skin, I know absolute first hand how goshgolly much a bite HURTS, and I just wish that DS would give US a break so that we could heal from it!







:

If it's physical pain still...if it's on the chest, well, there are a lot of nerves in there. Sidebar: I was just reading about how tongue piercings can affect a nerve that can affect the trigeminal nerve, and cause EXTREME pain in the face and head. Back to the exact thought: I wonder if the pinch or bite could have impinged on a nerve under the skin, or the bruise (or formerly bruised area) could still hurt, and so putting it on might exacerbate things? Then again, he let your mom put a coat?jacket? on him, so... But you *could* go the route of having that area checked out, just to see if there's anything damaged beneath the skin... He might also have had a whole body reaction to whatever the other child did, which might cause you to consider taking him in to be checked out by a chiropractor or osteopath who still does manipulations (I've lost track of where you are...if you're in the States, I suggest a chiro, if you're in Europe I suggest an Osteopath, if you're in Canada, I don't know which one would be best), as he might have caused a vertebra, or even a rib, to move slightly out of place, causing pain when he puts his body in certain positions. I know from experience that a rib being out of place can be QUITE painful in some positions (not all)!

I've often resorted to calling DH so that DH can suggest something DS doesn't want to do. This isn't "get in the car so we can go somewhere", but "get BACK in the car so we can go HOME"...it almost always works. I'd say always, and could have said that, but yesterday blew everything out of the water ...not only did he refuse to take off his coat, but he was sitting slumped down in his carseat, saying he was a "baby", and it was incredibly hard to get him into an even remotely OK position, and I was almost sobbing with exertion by the time I finally got him in a good enough position to buckle him in (30 seconds after I did that and started the car and got going, he pushed himself up into proper position)...anyway, until that I could have said it ALWAYS works...

OK, and I just read your last, as I write, reply, and I see that you're going on a bus. So there goes the "enough already" aspect of it!







Though, I'd resist too, if I had to go on the bus. I love the _idea_ of the bus, but the reality of it, at least here in the Seattle area, is often so gross, with sick people all around and men sitting with their legs spread apart, women with nasty perfume, everyone clicking away on their Blackberries....but do 2 year olds notice? Well, my guy notices perfume, and doesn't like it.

But, you know, IMO, 2 year olds simply ARE higher maintenance than they were, or than they will be in the future. They are testing limits, figuring things out, learning about their world. If, for a moment compared to their entire lifetime, you have to do annoying things like hide the coat, or play crazy games, or be a cheerleader to get them to do something, so what? He'll soon be older, he very likely won't have learned bad bad things from it, he'll grab his coat and refuse to let you help him with it! And then there's college...









OK maybe I'm thinking too longterm, but really, I see it as such a blip in my 2 year old's life. I have confidence just about any phase he's in will be gone oh too soon, so I *try* not to sweat things, even awful days like yesterday where he had me in tears over the course of hours, even having to do absolutely ridiculous things to convince him to do something that he'll forget about inside of 2 minutes... That's part of my theory, anyway, one that's constantly changing as he changes.


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## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrmom* 
i wish this were an option as i would have no problems with it...but I dont drive so when we go out it's on the bus.

My apologies for the assumption!!

I don't know if you ever read Mothering Magazine or not AND whether you are able to wear your toddler since I see you also have a little one BUT in the letters section there is a letter and a picture of an amautik which seems like a great idea for pretty cold areas. There is more info here: http://www.hipbundles.com/item.asp?brand=12&item=30.

On second thought, though it seems like a great idea, it costs a small fortune!! WOW!

SJ


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## Rockies5 (May 17, 2005)

Just wanted to touch on the "going out" issue again, since that SEEMS like root probelm here (or at least that's what I'm getting now, not the jacket at all but that the jeacket means going out to him..is that right?)

So what if you played the non-begotiable card a few times and had some happy get toghethers with people you trust. Maybe a few good associations with going out will help him get over the fear of being bitten.

NAK, forgive the missed keys!


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:

I don't know if you ever read Mothering Magazine or not AND whether you are able to wear your toddler since I see you also have a little one BUT in the letters section there is a letter and a picture of an amautik which seems like a great idea for pretty cold areas. There is more info here:
i do where him on my back with baby on the front under my kinder coat , but that isn't always an option as it gets heavy, so i can only do ut for short distances. But this is definately an option to maybe use more when feesible.

Quote:

The best thing I have found to help with this is to allow LOTS of time to get out the door, so that I'm not rushed and adding more stress. Another idea: does your son know the trick of putting his coat on by flipping it over his head? I could try to explain, but it's much clearer to watch the animation here. He might think it's fun?
definately some things to try...time I think will be a big one..i'm sure if I give him enough time he will come around as he loves to go out.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Wiinepeg is freaking cold so I get your concern.

I let my kids pick out their jackets that we buy. ANd I always make sure to have two option for them, or lots of sweaters.

MY DS needs a few hours to get ready. Ond ays we have to leave by 9am, I am up at 6, waking him up at 7 and letting him know we have to leave, help him get ready and transition into going. Especially on cold or snowy days because he doesn't like snow boots.

My DD on the other hand can wake and go in 15 minutes!


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## PhoebeBeeBerBee (Oct 29, 2006)

Wow... myrmom...

Hi everyone. This is my second ever post on MDC and I just came by to check out this thread as the OP poster and I are friends and parenting buddies IRL and also bc we do the WinterWear Rodeo from time to time ourselves. I have to say I'm pretty freaked out by the way this thread took such a turn, and also pretty impressed with the way the moderator turned it around. I guess I'll have to check out a few more threads here in MDC land but I have to say my initial feeling is not very happy. What happened that so many folks were giving myrmom such a hard time? She's a smart, loving mom working through a challenging situation with empathy, creativity and is courageously asking for advice... why did things get so mean?


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Yeah I was gonna say.

Winnipeg coat = Non negotiable. Period. Same with mits, hats, scarf....

it gets to be -35 (and that's without the windchill) there in the winter on a GOOD day. so "yeah just let him walk without it and he'll ask for it" isn't an option. the core body temperature can drop drasticly...

OP: I'd treat it like a carseat. Non Negotiable. Validate his feelings, console him, hug him...but it's one of those non negotiables.

And wearing a toddler and a baby in the icy chill of Winnipeg? Oy...talk about a disaster waiting to happen...slip smash...Heck, I'd be reluctant to wear a baby in a front carryer in those conditions. OP, I commend you for doing it...you must have kleats!







But a toddler at the same time on my back, uh huh..no way totally understand where you're coming from.

You can still make a non-negotiable condition as gentle and loving as possible.

Just takes a little bit of work.


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PhoebeBeeBerBee* 
Wow... myrmom...

Hi everyone. This is my second ever post on MDC and I just came by to check out this thread as the OP poster and I are friends and parenting buddies IRL and also bc we do the WinterWear Rodeo from time to time ourselves. I have to say I'm pretty freaked out by the way this thread took such a turn, and also pretty impressed with the way the moderator turned it around. I guess I'll have to check out a few more threads here in MDC land but I have to say my initial feeling is not very happy. What happened that so many folks were giving myrmom such a hard time? She's a smart, loving mom working through a challenging situation with empathy, creativity and is courageously asking for advice... why did things get so mean?










I dont' think things realy got "mean." Sometimes someone will take somthing wrong, as things often get maybe a little misinterpreted, and maybe that strikes a little defensiveness...but for the most part I think anyone with less than respectful comments realized so, and didn't take things further. And sometimes someone just realizes maybe they didn't need to take certain tone, give sarcasm, etc.

I think when it comes down to it, most the mamas around here realize when they may have been out of line and don't keep on with it you know? I really think most of us are respectful.


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## PhoebeBeeBerBee (Oct 29, 2006)

I can totally appreciate that this is a caring and respectful community of women and men who really want to support one another in a common philosophy of parenting.

I do think that things got mean. There was a lot of sarcasm and negativity. I know I'm coming into this after the fact and the discussion is pretty much over, which is probably for the best, but I do think it was a pretty intimidating thread to come upon. For me, since it was my first interaction with MDC, I was really taken aback.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Part of the problem is that initial posts don't always give the complete picture. For instance, MDC members come from a variety of climates and tend to assume that the climate in question is similar to their own, or at least not extremely different. Another thing is that not all the posts were in response to the OP's (original poster's) so most of the perceived attitude was not directed at your friend but at other posters' responses to her. Since we don't actually know each other and aren't relating in person, there are all sorts of opportunity for misunderstanding intentions.

Do expect people to give each other a hard time if the advice given is oh say... "stuff your child in a coat while they fight and scream"







. MDC believes in treating children respectfully.


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## myrmom (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:

Do expect people to give each other a hard time if the advice given is oh say... "stuff your child in a coat while they fight and scream" . MDC believes in treating children respectfully.
hence the reason I posted in the first place...because i'm looking for ways to avoid this battle and still find a way to get his jacket on....it's a safety issue in my book like a car seat....something that has to be done but doesn't need to be done in such a rough and battle ridden way...if I can find away not to.

Thanks for the support Phoebe...[[[hugs]]]


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## mcs (Apr 20, 2005)

just wanted to chime in and say that i am in the "not an option" club. it is not soo cold here, but really, i think dd NEEDS to wear a coat when it is cold. we had our first real battle yesterday ending in her first real tantrum. she is 16 months and not able, i don't beleive, to decide if she can wear a coat.
yesterday and again this morning, we ended up staying home, but i can't stay inside forever and i don't want her momentary mood to decide for a whole two days that we will stay indoors when she and i both really NEED to get out of the house- indeed, getting out of the house is what then slows the kind of behavior that ends in a no coat tantrum.
i think that some of the soulutions here were great- double up with clothes, the song, the famous coat flip, treasure pockets, and the no-nonsense just put it on and go method- i feel an outing coming for us this afternoon afterall....
thanks
mcs


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## Miss Juice (Jun 9, 2005)

Try "flip it and zip it" if you haven't already. My DD is almost the same age as your DS and this is what solved our jacket battles. Once you show them how to do it it's fun - kind of like the hokey-pokey idea. I'll try to explain it...

Have him lay his jacket on the ground in front of him, open, with the collar right in front of his feet. He should basically be looking at it upside down. Then have him bend down, put his hands in the armholes, and flip it up over his head as he stands up. His arms end up in the sleeves, the jacket is on rightside up and rightside out, and all that's left is to zip it up and get the heck out of the house before he realizes what happened!

Good luck! I hate clothing battles.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

What a neat and playful idea, Miss Juice!!! I'm not in coat country, but I'm going to try that when January rolls around


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

I hope no one found my remark offensive...I have been down the power struggle over the coat road before...I also didn't realize where you were located. sorry! It would be non-negotiable if it got that cold here!


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Lots of suggestions. Lots of differing perspectives here.

When my dd was smaller, she didn't like certain jackets. She called them "puffy." She said they were uncomfortable. Some children's coats don't give the child much range of movement and I think that is what she was referring to. We just did layers. She didn't seem to have a problem with that. I got lots of dirty looks but we got through it.

Also, my daughter has always been a little hot potato. She can withstand more cold than I can. She didn't need as many layers as I did. And yes, it gets very cold here so my experience is relevant. Just something to think about.

You mentioned his arm getting pinched...maybe the jacket is hurting him? Maybe he let your mom put the jacket on him because he knew she wouldn't give him a choice. He feels freer with you and allows himself to voice his preferences with you. ??? Just guessing here...

He doesn't like you even taking the jacket? Maybe it's this particular jacket that he is objecting to?


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