# Family friends with younger children -- who needs to say what?



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I have a nearly 13 YO DS and a 9 YO DD. DD is best friends with 9 YO girl up the street. Friends family also has a 7 YO boy. The friend's mom does not want my son playing with her son -- she fears inappropriate conversation and/or actions from my son since he is so much older. While I think she is over-reacting/over-protective, she has a right as mom to control who plays with her children and I respect that.

Problem is, I don't know what to tell my DS about why he can't play with the other boy, especially since the two girls are together as much as possible. I have said "X's mom thinks you are too old to play with X". I have even explained that X's mom is afraid of inappropriate behavior, which of course upset my DS that someone would think he would do "something like that". So I'm stuck saying "No, you can't go up the street to play" and I do whenever he asks. But DS is on his own some days this summer and has gone up to see if X can play a couple of times. The mom won't say he can't play, but will complain to me that DS came up. I've said "I wasn't home, he came up on his own. If you don't want him there, you have to be willing to send him home." She doesn't want to be mean so she won't do that, which is nice but puts me in a bad spot. DS says "Mom, you are wrong, X's mom will let X play with me."

So, clearly I need to reinforce "don't play with X" with my DS and I have done that. But is it unreasonable for me to expect the other mom to say "No, X can't play" and send DS home if he does arrive there? I will help DS live with her rules, but doesn't she have some responsibility to help as well?


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## katt (Nov 29, 2001)

No, it is not unreasonable to expect the other mother to enforce HER rules. You've done your best to respect her wishes and pass that Lang to your son. Now it is her turn to do the same.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom*
> 
> So, clearly I need to reinforce "don't play with X" with my DS and I have done that. But is it unreasonable for me to expect the other mom to say "No, X can't play" and send DS home if he does arrive there? I will help DS live with her rules, but doesn't she have some responsibility to help as well?


She has every responsibility to help. I think I'd tell her, flat out, that next time she lets your ds play with her ds, you're going to interpret that to mean that she doesn't mind, and you'll no longer be upsetting your son over a rule she's not serious about. It's inexcusable for her to expect you to be put on the spot, explaining rules that you don't even understand yourself, and then not even stick to them herself. It's okay for you to upset your son, but she shouldn't have to? For her own rule? Ridiculous!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> But is it unreasonable for me to expect the other mom to say "No, X can't play" and send DS home if he does arrive there?


I don't think so, you should not be having him go up there again- I don't think I would be real interested either because of the large age gap and would wonder why he isn't playing with children closer in his age group. I really would not want a 13 year old playing with my 7 year old of either sex.

Quote:



> I will help DS live with *her rules*, but doesn't she have some responsibility to help as well?


Frankly, I feel this should be viewed as your rules-not hers.

She already told you NO- what exactly should she do? I would be offend if I was that mom and you thought it was MY responsibility to control your child.

Is there no one else for your DS to play with?

Even is they were the same age the other mother has all the right to say who she wants and does not want around her child, this is what you should be teaching your child not saying it is the other mother's fault (rules)-there should be a teaching of excepting of others desires. I think you should talk to your son more regarding why you just can't go to someone's house without asking you first. I see it as a large age gap and don't see why you don't set up playdates for your DS or other activities so this does not happen.

Being friendly is expected - playing together is really asking a lot -IMO


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> Frankly, I feel this should be viewed as your rules-not hers.
> 
> ...


How is OP supposed to explain to her son that she should accept that other mom's desires, when the other mom turns around and goes "sure you can play", because she doesn't want to tell him that he can't. This other mom isn't saying who she does and doesn't want around her child - she's telling the OP that OP's son can't play with her son, and telling the OP's son that he can! Maybe she should make up her mind what she really wants, and then OP can enforce that. The other mom is undermining her own position. If she'd told OP's ds, the first time he showed up at her house, that he couldn't play with her son, this whole situation would, in all likelihood, be over with.

Mind you, I'm boggled by the "there's too big an age gap to play together" thing. It's never made any sense to me at all.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> Is there no one else for your DS to play with?


 Unfortunately, no, there are no young teens/tweens within walking/biking distance that we know. That's a whole 'nother story at the moment. And I do understand the age difference and why she isn't comfortable with it, even if I don't necessarily agree that all such age differences in playmates is automatically bad. They have found some things they both like to do such as Legos and Wii games, which we have done when the families get together.

As I said, I wasn't home the last time this happened -- it was one of the few weeks that the kids didn't have a camp to go to and DD was up playing at their house all day (as previously arranged and agreed to between us) and DS went up to join them. I *had* told him he couldn't do that and I *did* reinforce that when I came home -- along with not leaving food in the living room and neglecting the dog -- sigh. It was the first (and for this summer, last) time that I left him alone while I went to work.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> How is OP supposed to explain to her son that she should accept that other mom's desires, when the other mom turns around and goes "sure you can play", because she doesn't want to tell him that he can't.


guess the other mom could be mean and nasty and just tell the DS flat out but seems like she went to the OP FIRST and frankly I would not be thrilled if I spoke to the parent and this happened again- would make me think the parent doesn't respect what I feel by just letting the child continue to come over

the OP has the problem-IMO, her child did not listen to her- he should not be at other homes-IMO without first asking/telling her/letting her know- she stated she told him they could not play and yet he didn't listen to the OP and went again-how is this the fault of the other mom?? The OP's child disobeyed her-the other mom didn't do anything - IMO but be nice when she clearly has every right to say who her child plays with.

What makes this all on the other mom's to say NO to the DS?

How is it the OP isn't responsible for her DS's actions? I don't get this making others do the parenting as this seems to be suggesting.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

I can see both sides to this. IMO, let it go and don't leave DS alone home again (sounds like you've already decided that). Hopefully this blows over. On one hand yes she should stand up for her rules - in that black and white, you should always follow everything you say way - but if she's a nice mum maybe she didn't want to hurt your DS, who is, after all, still a child. I can see why she would hesitate to do so face to face with him.

I don't agree with the PP though that you should be expected to control every move of your 13 year old though - that's totally unrealistic, especially when you aren't there.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I would have a hard time bending over backward to support someone else's rule that I didn't agree with. And I do think it is the other mom's rule. They may be 13 and 7 now, but when they are 35 and 41 who would care if they hang out? Also, at 13 I was babysitting 7 year olds! I played with them and had a fine time.

I think you need to talk with mom about what would make it *okay* for them to hang out. Unless it is her ds who is uncomfortable and has asked mom to limit interaction, I would try to figure out a way to make mom more comfortable. Constant adult supervision? Only rated E games? Only outside where people can see them (riding bikes or whatever)?

Or she needs to tell the op's ds "sorry ds can't play right now sorry." or "I spoke with mom about this already, I know you know the rule. Please go home."


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> guess the other mom could be mean and nasty and just tell the DS flat out but seems like she went to the OP FIRST and frankly I would not be thrilled if I spoke to the parent and this happened again- would make me think the parent doesn't respect what I feel by just letting the child continue to come over
> 
> ...


Um... your child has never disobeyed you? I would *love* to know how you got that to work!!! He's 12. He doesn't always listen and/or remember what I said at 7 AM on Monday by 4 PM on Wednesday, yk? I didn't say it was all on the other mom and I do respect that she has the right to say who does and doesn't play with her children. I did discipline my child for the disobedience. But yes, I would have preferred her to politely say "I'm really sorry but X can't play". The way it stands now my DS thinks that I was lying when I said that other mom didn't want him to come up to play.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

While the other mom certainly has the right to screen and decide who her child plays with, I think she is overstepping her bounds by wanting to control every other person who may want to play with her child. I think she will have better success teaching her child how to respond to his environment (i.e. choosing "appropriate" playmates) than having the environment (i.e. other people) respond to her wants.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I think i'd want to talk about it to ds WITH the other mom. She doesn't get to not be the "bad guy" here. If she's serious about it then she needs to step up a little. She asked you to deal with it, you really tried, and her inability/unwillingness to back you up has now made you a liar in your son's eyes - i'd be MAJOR pissed about that if i were you. It's NOT acceptable for her to tell you that she doesn't want him around then throw the door open to him if he shows up.

Say to her "i have now told him repeatedly you'd rather he didn't come up to play with DS7, but since you then DID let him play when he came up last week/whenever it was he now thinks i'm a liar so he may well come up again. Your changing your mind that time has totally undermined me in his eyes. This time PLEASE be honest with him about your desires."


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> guess the other mom could be mean and nasty and just tell the DS flat out but seems like she went to the OP FIRST and frankly I would not be thrilled if I spoke to the parent and this happened again- would make me think the parent doesn't respect what I feel by just letting the child continue to come over
> 
> ...


This isn't about expecting others to do the parenting. It's about the other mom being totally inconsistent. When OP tells her son that the other mom doesn't want OP's ds playing with her son, and OP's ds doesn't agree with or understand that rule (he's 13, and he's not an automaton - he's going to press on some things, especially when he doesn't get it), the other mom is going to have to stand by her own rule. OP basically told her son that he's not to go play with neighbour's son, because the neighbour doesn't like it. OP's son (being 13) went ahead and tried, presumably because he likes the kid...and the mom who supposedly doesn't want him to come play said "yeah, sure". OP's credibility with her own son has been undermined, because she's clearly misrepresented the other mom's rule (from OP: DS says "Mom, you are wrong, X's mom will let X play with me.")

Yes - OP needs to reinforce that he's not supposed to go play at the neighbour's house. Her son clearly did something he wasn't allowed to do. But, unless she lies to her ds and claims that she doesn't want him there (which I totally disagree with, on every level), the boy is going to know that it's supposedly the other mom who doesn't want him there. Then, when he tries his luck...boom! Guess what? Mom was wrong. Neighbour is totally okay with me being there.

If I have a house rule that affects visitors, it's up to me, not anyone else, to tell them that.

I tell kids they can't come over to play with my kids, or my kids can't come out, or whatever, all the time. There is absolutely no way in which that qualifies as parenting the other child. If OP's neighbour doesn't want to enforce her own rules, maybe she shouldn't bother having them. It boggles my mind that someone would say, "sure - come on in and play to a kid", then go to the mother and say, "he's not allowed to come over here". Yes - he is! You let him in!

ETA: Nobody said, or suggested, that the other mom has to be "mean and nasty". She can simply say, "I'm sorry - you can't play with ds. I told your mom about this, and I thought she'd told you." Done.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> The way it stands now my DS thinks that I was lying when I said that other mom didn't want him to come up to play.


How was the mom to know you really talked to your DS? Sounds like she is the one being nice here-she easily could have been rude and told him but thought that should be your responsibility. She should have hurt your DS's feeling and sent him home to an empty home? Who knows if she felt bad for your child being left alone or not.

Personally I would have done what this other mother did- talk to you first and see the you take responsibility at your end. If you work you are still responsible if your child breaks into a neighbors home and causes damage, etc, if your child can not follow your rules you need to set up an alternative plan- a care taker for him, etc. that what most people have to do.

If your DS disobeys you that is your responsibility to deal with the discipline not someone else. Blaming the other mother doesn't mean she has to allow your DS to play with hers- that's crazy! If someone had this much problem (and I was that mother) I don't know that I would want the DD's even playing anymore- you really seem to want to blame her for it all.

Quote:


> with, I think she is overstepping her bounds by wanting to control every other person who may want to play with her child.


way I read this- the other mother has every right- *this is HER home*, it's not free and open to who ever- a lot different than being out in public

Quote:


> They may be 13 and 7 now, but when they are 35 and 41 who would care if they hang out?


maybe the OP's child should hang out with 18+ year olds instead of 7 year olds and maybe the OP would have an issue with it and if so, that should be respected as well

I really don't get forcing this child to have to play with another in this way.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> way I read this- the other mother has every right- *this is HER home*, it's not free and open to who ever- a lot different than being out in public


so why doesn't she enforce her own rules?

If I keep letting the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses into my home everytime they knock in my door, I have no one to blame but myself if they are encouraged by it and keep doing it.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

I can definely control who goes into my house but not really who knocks on my door.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> How was the mom to know you really talked to your DS? Sounds like she is the one being nice here-she easily could have been rude and told him but thought that should be your responsibility. She should have hurt your DS's feeling and sent him home to an empty home? Who knows if she felt bad for your child being left alone or not.
> 
> ...


I guess I don't understand why OP should continue to tell her ds that he's not allowed to play with the other mom's ds, when he clearly is allowed to do so. Her ds was reprimanded, because the other mom told his mom he wasn't allowed to play with her ds, and then let him play with her ds.

So, really - you think the other mom should go around saying, "this kid can't come to my house" and then letting the same kid come to her house whenever he knocks on the door? You don't think this is sending mixed message, to both OP and her son? OP is trying to enforce the rule, even though she doesn't see the sense in it, out of respect for the other mom's house. The other mom isn't enforcing her own rule, for reasons known only to her.

Honestly, if my neighbour was going to play headgames like this with my kid, I wouldn't want my kids going over there at all.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grumpybear*
> 
> *so why doesn't she enforce her own rules?*
> 
> If I keep letting the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses into my home everytime they knock in my door, I have no one to blame but myself if they are encouraged by it and keep doing it.


This. Exactly. So succinct.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think this is mostly your issue but you also should ask the mom to clarify her rules. If at all possible I think you need to find a way to get him involved with other kids his age even if it means expanding his biking distance or dropping him off somewhere. I would take his reluctance to follow the rule you gave him.as a sign of serious boredom not as a sign that he has a burning desire to play with a child half his age. Are there any teen programs at your local pool, community center, boys and girls clubs, YMCA, or libraries? Maybe a 4h group through your local extension agency? Those may be good places to help him meet his need for making friends with peers and most of these types of places offer scholarships to make them accessible for all teens.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I think your neighbor is a couple of fries short of a happy meal.

First, the notion that all boys who are past puberty are potential predators is crazy and destructive. You would think that the mother of BOY would realize this. I would be tempted to point this out to her (even though its most likely not something that will help the situation). Does she seriously plan to make sure her own son is never near younger children once he is 12 or 13 to ensure he doesn't molest anybody? She is just a loon. Your son is a kid she knows who she can supervise -- she's being crazy.

Second, I've got zero respect for a mother who is unable to say the word "no" to a child who is currently at her house. What is that about? I get it for new moms hosting their first play dates -- we've all been there. But she has a 9 year old. By this point, most of us have figured out how to say "no." It's one of those situations what causes me to long for a female phrase that means "grow a pair."

I suspect she has some deep seated issues left over from her own childhood that would best be worked our in therapy. Because she is a loon.

None the less, this is your DD's friend's mother and you've got no control over her mental health, so they only thing you can do is talk to your son. I'd say something along the lines of:

"Mrs. X is a loon. She says one thing to me, and another to you. Because of this I don't trust her. I don't feel her house is a safe place for you play because I feel like she has it in for you and I know she talks negatively about you when you aren't around. I don't want you to go there any more. I know you like playing with (kid's name) when you are bored, but the situation has gotten weird because the mom is crazy, so it's just out for now. I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. Would you like a new video game?"

I am a survivor of childhood sexual assault - I understand the issue. But I believe our society as a whole as swung so far in the opposite direction that older boys and young men can be accused of things they would NEVER do, and be assumed to be guilty. If I had a son, I would want to protect him from adults who are so busy looking for perpetrators that they sometimes see them where they don't exist, and wreck lives because of it.

My kids go to a mixed age school, and there's nothing odd to me about a bored 13 year old playing with a younger child. I think it's nice. I enjoyed playing with my much older and and younger cousins when I was a child. I think its a shame that we live in a society that such a natural thing as different aged neighbors hanging out together is seen potentially evil.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I agree, I think this mom is a bit loony.

Would there be a compromise possible? In our neighborhood, there are lots of kids of different ages who hang out and play together, especially in the summer. They're outside, and there's no worry about the mix of the kids. When the kids play inside, there is more of a separation by age. There are 3 thirteen year olds in the neighborhood -- one male, two female. The girls don't play much with the other kids, but the boy really doesn't have much of anyone to hang out with. He plays with my son (who's 11) the most, and I'm fine with it, indoors or out. However, because of past issues of him bullying my daughter (who's 8), I'm very leery of him playing one-on-one with younger kids. It's not inappropriate behavior in the way that this mom fears, just a definite lack of control and some lack of judgment that makes me not trust him. Because of that, I don't welcome him into my home. But I'm fine if the kids all play outside together in a group.

Maybe this other mom would be open to a situation like that: it's OK for your son to play outside with the 7 year old if there's a group of kids or if they're doing something like skateboarding or playing basketball. But, not inside.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I agree with Linda's idea to just tell your son this woman's a loon who says one thing to you and another thing to him.

As to it being weird for a 13yo to play with younger kids -- no one thought it was weird when I played with the little kids in my neighborhood at this age. Parents started asking me to babysit.

I really, really loved and enjoyed being with little kids (still do), and their love for me was a real affirmation to me at a time in my life when a lot of the kids my own age were being pretty mean and excluding me. I'm not assuming that this is the OP's son's situation -- but it seems so weird to me that parents were so happy to see me out there interacting with their kids thirty-some years ago, but now there's all this suspicion. It's sad, really.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

you can think this way all you want but I would never say such a thing!

Quote:


> "*Mrs. X is a loon.* She says one thing to me, and another to you. Because of this I don't trust her. I don't feel her house is a safe place for you play because I feel like she has it in for you and I know she talks negatively about you when you aren't around. I don't want you to go there any more. I know you like playing with (kid's name) when you are bored, but the situation has gotten weird because the *mom is crazy*, so it's just out for now. I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. *Would you like a new video game?"*


first- IF you still want the DD's together this would be out of the question-IMO

you can't have it both ways- She can't be a *loon* that you allow the DD with and to say that and think the DD won't know you called her that - really? and the DS will never repeat to others in the neighborhood how you feel?

AND

I don't believe in *rewarding disobedience*, he didn't just go there (the OP stated he didn't follow other things she asked either) -

Quote:


> along with not leaving food in the living room and neglecting the dog -- sigh.


if you *reward* that behavior in your DS you really are the loon-IMO you can blame the other mother all you want bottom line is you have a problem with your son-he doesn't listen to you and saying things about the other mom doesn't change that

frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the other mother thinks this of the OP and stops all playdates with the DD


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

I just wanted to point out that this woman is the OP's neighbour, which means if things go south it would be hard for her to avoid the woman AND her kids.

Really, a loon? Is it really necessary to name-call? What's to say the OP's son won't repeat that and make things exponentially worse?

She may be overprotective but look at the society we all live in.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I just wanted to point out that this woman is the OP's neighbour, which means if things go south it would be hard for her to avoid the woman AND her kids.
> 
> Really, a *loon*? *Is it really necessary to name-call?* What's to say the OP's son won't repeat that and make things exponentially worse?
> 
> She may be overprotective but look at the society we all live in.


exactly!

I'm really SHOCKED to see this....guess no one could think the mother thought sorry for the boy being left alone and we really have NO clue if she knew his mom even spoke to him-just JUMP to name calling??!! WOW

Quote:



> As to it being weird for a 13yo to play with younger kids


a role of a babysitter/mother's helper to me is vastly different from a playdate-many people for various reasons do not want their children having non-academic playdates with children with a vastly different age range-it is the woman's home, her rights are to also be respected, this is not a public school, etc- she doesn't want it for what ever reason-so be it


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Yes, she has a responsibility to tell your son that he needs to go home if she doesn't want him at her house playing with her kids. It isn't mean to send him home if he shows up.

It is mean that she tells you that she fears your ds will be inappropriate with her ds but turns around and is nice to his face, lets him play with her ds and then complains to you later. It is mean to tell you that one of your kids is not welcome just because of their age while your other child is welcome.

I would tell the mom that you had already spoken with your ds and explained to him that he may not play with her ds as she requested. I would tell her that if your ds ever shows up at her house she needs to support that and send him home immediately or it just confuses/hurts your ds.

I would tell your ds that the mom is calling you up and telling you he needs to stay away because she says she only wants her ds to play with kids his age. Maybe it is confusing to both of you but he still needs to respect what YOU tell him even if what the neighbor says and does to his face are different from what she tells you she wants. Some people are like that. I would make it plain to him that you are not lying or misunderstanding what the neighbor wants since she called and told you again after he went over this time. I would make sure he knows that the only thing he did wrong was going over there after you told him not to- that he is not a bad person and you trust him to play with younger kids.

I wouldn't actually tell your ds that she is a loon to be avoided if you plan to continue to send your dd there to play. That is another confusing mixed message. If you truly believe she is that loony then your dd doesn't need to be in their home either. I'd personally reconsider having your dd at the neighbor's house because the mom would make me uncomfortable.


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

She most definitely needs to back you (her) up if she doesn't want your son there. To do anything but send him away is irresponsible, since she's making you be the bad guy.

I also think it's "loony" that this woman assumes that your son will behave badly based solely on his age.I would be completely hurt and insulted. Let's get real here. The mother of the younger boy is the one who is displaying the poor manners.

FWIW, my 7yo (now 8 yo) son spent nearly all of his time with a 13 and a 14 year old boy this past year. They treated him like a little brother, and were both an excellent influence on him. The younger boys in our neighbourhood (5 and 6 yo's) are the ones who steal and say EFF every other sentence.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

While I totally agree with the majority that the neighbor woman should enforce her own rule at her own house instead of "feeling bad" for the kid and inviting him in and undermining both herself and OP, and would even say that much to my kid and try to figure out something for him to do when he's bored, I think it is WAYYYYYYY over the line and inappropriate to say to your 13-yo kid that your neighbor is a loon or crazy or any of that. Unresaonable, yes. Inconsistent, yes. But the namecalling is just out of line and super bad modeling.

And I have to be frank as the mom of a now 8-yo boy....when he's 13, if any mom wasn't comfortable with him around their young kid, I would be OK with that. I wouldn't be thrilled, but I wouldn't be outraged. The unpleasant truth is that most abuse happens in close/friendly relationships, and is mostly perpetrated by males. Sucks for my kid, but I'm not going to be bitter about it, or teach him to be bitter about it. I'd let him know the facts (age appropriately), and help him understand that different people have different reactions/abilities to process all that and maintain their "safe space" in different ways, and he needs to respect that by just continuing to be his awesome, trustworthy, decent self, saying he understands their viewpoint even if he disagrees, but not pushing or giving attitude, etc in individual situations- that's not how to make change on this particular issue. I wouldn't paint the woman as a lunatic, and certainly not in a conversation with my own kid. I disagree with her and think she's handling it very poorly, but I don't think she's crazy.

In FACT, I think StormBride brought it up, I probably *wouldn't* be OK with my kid going there, either, if the mom is that worked up about it, in case she imagined something happened that didn't.


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

I think for me it makes a difference that the neighbour watch watching one child of the family while the OP was working. While in most cicumstances I'm happy to say "now is not a good time to play" if a child comes round, it would be much more difficult if I was babysitting their sibling. I would definalty find it hard to say no in that case.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Interesting point, for sure!!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> In FACT, I think StormBride brought it up, I probably *wouldn't* be OK with my kid going there, either, if the mom is that worked up about it, in case she imagined something happened that didn't.


This is a very good point. Some parents can be kind of weird, too, about assuming that any behavior of their child's that they see as negative or alarming must be the result of some other child's influence.

What if her son starts taking an interest in exploring his own genitals -- or, since I think many little boys start doing this early on -- what if he starts taking more interest than he use to take? Or what if she were to discover your daughter and her daughter role playing some sort of kissing/dating scenario, which is honestly not unheard of? Would this mother be the sort to assume that your son had done something to make her son more interested in his penis? Or to assume that he had done something to your daughter that she was then trying to "act out" with her friend?

Thinking about it like this, I'd honestly feel kind of uncomfortable about sending even your dd over there. If this mother assumes that teen boys are inclined to "act inappropriately" with her own son, she's probably just as inclined to assume that they are likely to "act inappropriately" with their own little sisters. She may even assume that most children with older brothers have been molested or exposed to other inappropriate stuff.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

While I'd be tempted to tell my son that the neighbour was a loon, I wouldn't actually do it, as I think it would cause more problems than it would solve. I'm really not sure what I'd do in this situation. The neighbour has made it really hard for OP to deal with her son. This is a hard age, anyway, and enforcing rules on someone else's behalf, then having that person demonstrate a complete unwillingness to enforce them herself, would be really hard to handle. (It used to drive me crazy at ds1's school. He'd be told that he had to get things in on time, or his marks would suffer, and dh and I would try to stay on top of him and remind him that he'd lose marks for being late. Then, his teachers would forgive the lateness, and he'd get full marks, and we'd be going "WTF?". The top student in his grade - straight A+s all the way through school - almost never handed anything in on time.)


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Okay, so you really don't need to call her any names -- but I think I'd just explain to both children that Mrs. so-and-so is very suspicious and is worried that other children are going to do bad things to her children or teach her children bad things.

I know this would be really hard on the two good friends -- but I'd probably just explain to my dd that this other girl's home isn't a safe place for her because of how suspicious the mother is regarding how other children might influence her own children, and how inclined she might therefore be to accuse your dd of doing something bad if she felt that her own dd was displaying some sort of negative behavior.

I realize this probably isn't how this other mom would like for her actions to be explained to your children -- but she is seriously putting you between a rock and a hard place.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I think for me it makes a difference that the neighbour watch watching one child of the family while the OP was working. While in most cicumstances I'm happy to say "now is not a good time to play" if a child comes round, it would be much more difficult if I was babysitting their sibling. I would definalty find it hard to say no in that case.


the other mother was ALSO put into a situation of having to explain (had she said NO) to her DS and the two DD's- how much do they know? did the OP tell her DD?

IMO- had it been me I would have said OK at that time as well- this was ackward situation for her to be put in-few here seem to think or care about that- what if it would have been brought up in front of the others by the OP's DS-that he was not going to do anything,, etc- she might not have want that confrontation / conversation

None of us know why the real reason behind this mothers feelings on the subject and agree or not, she has the right to her feelings- the OP still used her for babysitting the DD.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Also, it may seem like I'm kind of going out on a limb and "accusing" this other mom of things she's never said or done -- but isn't this actually what she is doing to your son?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I decided not to post this.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Did she specify she is worried about abuse or was it other topics and actions that worry her? I can think of many very normal topics and actions older children do that's. I wouldn't have wanted a teenager exposing my dd to accidentally. Some teens are wonderful at self monitoring and behaving more like adult caretakers than teens and some people don't master this even as adults so I can see why she would view the play as inappropriate without being a fear mongering psycho. If it was the abuse worry I would call her on it and not allow either child over. I would completely cut off contact with anyone who suggested my child is an abuser waiting for a target because that is just plain wrong.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> she fears inappropriate conversation and/or actions from my son


seems very normal and reasonable and lots of parents do not want an older influence at this age-and there happens to be nothing wrong with this to some people- I see threads all the time on 6 year old acting older and parents not happy- to many this is a real and valid concern- they don't want mixed age classrooms, the don't want 5 year gap playdates-that's does not make one a loon!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I concede that there have been several word choices offered that improve on my suggestion of "loon."









I would make if very clear to my son that this is the other parent's issue, nothing about him. I would make it clear that I knew the other parent was wrong. I believe that this is moment where the OP is teaching her son what it means to be a man in our society and what she thinks of him as a person, I'd be more concerned with getting that right than the neighbor's feelings.

Many 13 year old already have issues and concerns with their changing bodies, and I think some of the posters underestimate what it means to tell a teen boy that he has now crossed the magic line where some people see him only as a potential sex offender.

I think some of you will be surprised at how young your children will still seem when they are 13, and how much they still enjoy things like lego!









Quote:
Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 


> In FACT, I think StormBride brought it up, I probably *wouldn't* be OK with my kid going there, either, if the mom is that worked up about it, in case she imagined something happened that didn't.


I completely agree with this, and see the other home and the other children as NOT SAFE for the OPer's son.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> I realize this probably isn't how this other mom would like for her actions to be explained to your children -- but she is seriously putting you between a rock and a hard place.


The other mom is completely clueless. She honestly doesn't have a problem calling another mother and stating that based on her child age and gender, she views them as a potential sex offender. This is SO FAR for civilized behavior, the fact that she really expects the relationship to remain friendly is bizarre.

In refusing to kindly but firmly saying something like, "I'm sorry, but I feel the age difference between you and Y is too great, so no, you cannot play with him," she proved that she talks about people behind their backs rather than being honest to their faces. She cannot set appropriate boundaries, but she whines about it afterward. She's most likely passive aggressive.

Although I most likely wouldn't put a stop to my DDs friendship immediately, I think the writing is on the wall that the other mom has some serious issues that will impact her kids' friendships, and that if the girls remain friends, it will be in spite of her mother.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> If it was the abuse worry I would call her on it and not allow either child over. I would completely cut off contact with anyone who suggested my child is an abuser waiting for a target because that is just plain wrong.












I'm not sure how it is different to assume someone is an abuser based on age and gender than it is to assume someone is a thief based on color.

I also find the idea that kids of different ages playing together is a bad idea to be odd here on Mothering, and I fail to see how that view can be part of "natural family living." Isn't it natural for kids to be around those both older and younger than themselves? Isn't isolating children by age not just all day at school, but also in all social activities a little "unnatural"?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> seems very normal and reasonable and lots of parents do not want an older influence at this age-and there happens to be nothing wrong with this to some people- I see threads all the time on 6 year old acting older and parents not happy- to many this is a real and valid concern- they don't want mixed age classrooms, the don't want 5 year gap playdates-that's does not make one a loon!


The rationale seems strange to me because, from what I've seen, the children who "grow up too fast" tend to do so either because they've been thrown into an adult role at an early age due to parental dysfunction, or because, for whatever reason, they've embraced the idea that being popular among their peers is everything (and some girls seem, early on, to think popularity with boys is everything), and they've lost connection with who they really are and with their inner child. I haven't seen children who "grew up too fast" simply because they got to have friendships with people of all ages.

Of course, it's the parent's call to make and I know they have the right to do it -- but I just honestly wouldn't want to associate with parents who are so concerned about this sort of thing. It just seems like too precarious of a friendship with too much of a risk of heartbreak for my child if she were to happen to make some comment that led the other mom to think she was developing "older" ways and might be a corrupting influence.

About a year ago, my 12yo had a conversation with a girl her age at the park who told dd that she (dd) seemed like she "didn't have much of a life." This girl had been telling dd about how she and her boyfriend fooled around in a recycling bin, and I guess she was unimpressed with dd's own lack of experience. If both dd and this girl had wanted to get together, and if this girls' parents had felt comfortable sending their dd to our house, I honestly wouldn't have had a problem with this girl coming over to spend *one-on-one time* with dd. If they had spent more one-on-one time together, I think the other girl would have been just as likely to be influenced by my dd's attitudes and interests as my dd would have been likely to be influenced by her. It's where one child is repeatedly thrown into a group situation where they feel a need to comform in order to belong that kids can end up feeling pressured into stuff they're not ready for.

But the fact is, this girl seemed to have no interest in associating any further with my dd, and vice versa. Children tend to gravitate toward spending more time with people with whom they share common interests, and if one of my children has a friendship with someone of any age in which they enjoy spending time together, I am all for it. I will simply make sure that I provide whatever degree of supervision I think is necessary.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

One thing that I'm specially aware of with age gaps, is the fact that younger children are often so thrilled to get to play with an older child that they are willing to go along with whatever the older child wants to do. Case in point: my dd1 has a friend who is two years younger than her and three years older than dd2, and dd2 just eats up whatever attention this little girl wants to give her.

Sometimes when this friend comes over for a 24-hour stay, dd1 ends up wanting to play some computer games and the friend isn't so interested in these games and ends up playing with dd2. One morning when she was over, I was resting in bed while she and dd2 were playing in dd1's bedroom (dd1 was downstairs), and I heard her instruct dd2 to close the door. I immediately went and opened the door and found out that she was instructing dd2 to put the cat in a box.

While not assuming that she was going to have my dd do anything mean to the cat, and not making any kind of a big deal about it, I just realized that this was a situation where I was not comfortable with dd2 hanging out with this older friend alone. And this is a nice little girl, I love her, but my gut feeling is that it could develop into an unhealthy power play of some sort.

So we have a policy that if it's just dd2 and the friend playing together, they need to play downstairs where the rest of us are, and not by themselves in a bedroom. We also don't have her over on any night but Saturday nights, because Sundays are the only days when I don't have any telephone English lessons and I feel like I need to be fully available and able to monitor things when this friend is over. Even though dh is here, too, he doesn't feel comfortable being responsible for this alone.

So I do understand that there can be some special dynamics at play when there's a big gap in ages -- and I can understand that a mom might need to set some limits on when another child can come over, and for how long, based on her own ability to provide as much supervision as she feels a need to -- but I just don't see this as a reason to totally forbid a friendship.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

One thing I have learned with a few neighbor kids in our neighborhood - they don't really "hear" no if you say it in a nice way or waffle even a tiny bit. She may have already said no, not now, it's not a good time, maybe later, and everything else she can think of that is KIND and a determined kid will brush all that aside because if they waited her out last time and she gave in, she'll probably do it again. We have at least one kid in our neighborhood that I have to say NO and be almost rude to get her to go home. She has already figured out that most adults will give in before being "rude" to a random kid and if you just keep pushing you might get the answer you want.

He is your son. She has approached you about it more than once, you've told him not to go over and he does it anyway. Maybe she thinks it's on you to discipline your son when he does things you have asked him not to.

She is putting up boundaries, it's not fair to say because she's not also erecting a moat that it's all on her. Your son is doing what you've asked him not to. I think that's on you. And eventually when she gets very direct with him and hurts his feelings, will you wish you had tried harder to make him stay home?

Also, I can't see where the neighbor actually called the kid a potential predator, so maybe she's just using "inappropriate" as catch all for "too grown up for my seven year old" instead of making a list.

There have been soooooooo many posts here over the years about people who have neighbor kids who don't know when to go home or who come over too often or are just not a great match for their kids. The OPs are always SO unwilling to be really direct and risk hurting the child's feelings or making the parents angry. Maybe if you find some of those threads, you'll have a better idea of what's going on on the other side of this.

Good luck. Summer is almost over, thank goodness. A seven year old is probably not your son's ideal playmate anyway. Is there anyone from school who could come over sometime? I remember how long the days could get towards the end of the summer.


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlyzombiecat*
> 
> Yes, she has a responsibility to tell your son that he needs to go home if she doesn't want him at her house playing with her kids. It isn't mean to send him home if he shows up.
> 
> ...










(bolding mine) "Loon" or not, this woman is sending some seriously mixed signals.

To me - if a rule isn't important enough to enforce, it shouldn't be a rule. If she were REALLY concerned about her child's welfare, why would she compromise it just to avoid telling your DS nicely (but firmly) "oh I'm sorry, sweetie, so-and-so can't play today"???

I mean honestly...when I think about my rules involving my child's safety...I'd jump into traffic to protect him! I certainly wouldn't balk at a teenager's momentary disappointment.







(especially since, if the boy was upset, I could tell the mother, "I'm sorry your child was upset, but I had asked you to tell him he wasn't allowed to come over, so he shouldn't be surprised that I had to enforce the rule. This shouldn't be news." And really, because I'd assume that it's not, I wouldn't expect the teen to be upset at all!)

I do understand the preference for the teen's mom to talk to him first and do 90% of the work - and that's fine, because she did that - the other mom has to at least commit to holding the line, at a minimum, or else what does the rule even mean?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I would make if very clear to my son that this is the other parent's issue, nothing about him. I would make it clear that I knew the other parent was wrong. I believe that this is moment where the OP is teaching her son what it means to be a man in our society and what she thinks of him as a person, I'd be more concerned with getting that right than the neighbor's feelings.
> 
> ...


One has to wonder - since this woman so clearly trusts the OP's DD and (one would assume, in a reciprocal playdate relationship) the OP with her children, since she knows the family pretty well, since they live in the same neighborhood, and since her son HAS in fact, spent time playing with the OP's teen to no ill effect - why this fear persists so strongly?

I realize our society is often fear-mongering and prejudicial in this area, but shouldn't *some* of those fears be alleviated by personal experience and/or close supervision/compromises like the PPs have suggested? (play outside only, no doors closed, etc.)


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NiteNicole*
> 
> One thing I have learned with a few neighbor kids in our neighborhood - they don't really "hear" no if you say it in a nice way or waffle even a tiny bit. She may have already said no, not now, it's not a good time, maybe later, and everything else she can think of that is KIND and a determined kid will brush all that aside because if they waited her out last time and she gave in, she'll probably do it again. We have at least one kid in our neighborhood that I have to say NO and be almost rude to get her to go home. She has already figured out that most adults will give in before being "rude" to a random kid and if you just keep pushing you might get the answer you want.
> 
> ...


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## faithsstuff (Nov 30, 2008)

Why is the assumption that the other mother was completely upfront about why she doesn't want the boys to play together? It seems she used a good catch all phrase instead of going into the issue in depth. Maybe after the two spending time together her ds was affected in a way she didn't appreciate. This is a what- a 2nd grader and jr high kid? My brother is 21 and would never do anything physical or sexual to my ds but I don't want them to spend time alone together. My bro has introduced ds to superhero shows cartoons that are over his head and too violent. O.k. for someone older but not for ds. I consider this inappropriate and it's my job to monitor. The OP's kid went to the younger kids house, the younger didn't show up at OPs house. I think it's the OP's responsibility. Sorry this is scattered.

Op, sorry you're dealing with this issue. I don't know how to navigate this without someone having (at least) hurt feelings. It sounds like you do already.

*also, does she have 'older' kids, if her dd is 9 she may not know how to deal with an older kid.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faithsstuff*
> 
> Why is the assumption that the other mother was completely upfront about why she doesn't want the boys to play together? It seems she used a good catch all phrase instead of going into the issue in depth. Maybe after the two spending time together her ds was affected in a way she didn't appreciate. This is a what- a 2nd grader and jr high kid? My brother is 21 and would never do anything physical or sexual to my ds but I don't want them to spend time alone together. My bro has introduced ds to superhero shows cartoons that are over his head and too violent. O.k. for someone older but not for ds. * I consider this inappropriate and it's my job to monitor.* The OP's kid went to the younger kids house, the younger didn't show up at OPs house. I think it's the OP's responsibility. Sorry this is scattered.
> 
> Exactly. You have certain rules/expectations. Even if you had told your brother not to introduce stuff to your DS, it is still your job to monitor. No one is saying that the OP bears no responsibility in this at all. Of course she has a responsibility to prevent her DS from going into a home where he is unwelcome. But the thing is, as we all know (because we are parents), sometimes our dear children push limits and boundaries. Whether they just forget or they really want to take those risks, we all have experienced those. It sounds like the OP is doing her part in handling the situation with her DS' disregard of her instructions. However, if her neighbor is not being consistent with her own request not to have neighbor's DS play with OP's DS, then the whole basis for OP's instruction kind of disintegrates.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Consider this scenario...

Say it was OP who did not want her son to play with neighbor's son and she tells her neighbor about it.

OP's son goes to neighbor... what would be a reasonable response from neighbor? Tell OP's son that OP has told her (neighbor) that OP's son is not allowed to play with neighbor's son anymore, right?

So why is it, that for some, it seems like it's such a tall order for her neighbor to enforce her own rules?


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> So why is it, that for some, it seems like it's such a tall order for her neighbor to enforce her own rules?


it's called being polite and parenting your own child


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I disagree - it's not polite, it's......inconsistent, and unfair. The OP *IS* parenting her kid, for crying out loud - she told him not to go...he went anyway....she addressed it with him. Have you never had a child do something you told them not to? What exactly is it she should she have done with him when she found out he went over?

I also disagree that the neighbor shouldn't be held accountable for not upholding *her own preference*. I get that maybe she felt bad for him, etc. But if there was a kid or stage of kid I wanted to keep away from my kid, I'd dadgum well keep them away from my kid. IN FACT, there is a house 3 houses down from us with a large family of kids that play outside a TON. Several of the kids are right around my kids' ages. And I don't like the way they play at all. So I don't let my kids go there, and after the first couple times of coming by our place and feeling out our vibe, they stopped milling around. I wasn't rude, I wasn't mean, I just told them my kids couldn't come over to play and that I couldn't handle supervising extra kids. This all started when they were young and still needed supervision outside, so that helps. Point being , last year my son (then 7) asked why they never go down there again, and I just said, "I'm not crazy about the way they play together, and I don't want you guys doign it either." They probably think I'm stuck up or whatever, but I prefer that over the alternative.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faithsstuff*
> 
> My brother is 21 and would never do anything physical or sexual to my ds but I don't want them to spend time alone together. My bro has introduced ds to superhero shows cartoons that are over his head and too violent. O.k. for someone older but not for ds. I consider this inappropriate and it's my job to monitor.


I don't think anyone here is advocating that the OPs neighbor utilize the OPs son as a caregiver for her child. I already shared, a bit upthread, about a situation of my own in which I'm not comfortable with my younger daughter spending time *alone* with one of my older dd's friends -- a girl who is about midway between my two dd's ages but closer in age to dd1. This doesn't mean I don't ever let her come over, or even that I wouldn't let her come over if dd1 happened to be gone and she and my younger dd wanted to play together. It simply means that I *only* have her over when I'm able to provide the degree of supervision that I feel is necessary.

I honestly haven't heard anyone say that this neighbor should ignore any of her gut insticts (we all get them as parents), and allow her child to go off *alone* with anyone she doesn't implicitly trust in every way. Some of us are just saddened by her decision to not let them play together at all.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> it's called being polite and parenting your own child


So are you telling me if someone had told you that they did not want their own child playing with yours and that child ignored his mom's rules and came up to your house anyway, you'd be polite and let that child in anyway?


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

If a rule is worth making, it should be worth enforcing. It's much "nicer" if you can avoid the dirty work of hurting a kid's feelings by sending him home yourself, sure - but at the end of the day, you are responsible for your own rules and the people you let around your kid - that's "parenting your own child."

If Freddy Krueger showed up at her door, and she let him in because she felt it was the "polite" thing to do - and something happened to her kid - you really think she could blame Freddy's mama? "You shouldn't have let him show up on my doorstep!" Um...no. Your door, your kid, your rule - your ultimate responsibility.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> So are you telling me if someone had told you that they did not want their own child playing with yours and that child ignored his mom's rules and came up to your house anyway, you'd be polite and let that child in anyway?


I think you are missing it here- the other mom has 3 kids in the house (one is the sibling) and you expect her to tell the DS in front of the others? Like I said, we have no clue what the OP's DD knew and *yes*, I think she was acting polite in how it was handled.
ETA- AND maybe she didn't want to get into it with the DD (I certainly would not want to!!) on the reasons and I would expect that the OP might just be thankful for that- that left it up to the OP to deal with in her own way- I think that is respectful and lets the OP say what is appropriate for her DD.

That's what the parent is for. The other mom could have easily not even spoken to the OP and just told the DS and the OP could have had a fit if it went that way- many people prefer hearing it directly as the other mom did to the OP.

In the end it's all on the OP- she either deals with this mom or not and the ramifications, he went against her(OP), she needs to make plans for him (class, program, sitter what ever) and not expect others to parent her child-she was not paying this mother to babysit the DS.

The OP can blame the other mom all she wants doesn't change it nor can she force the other mom to do what she wants.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pickle18*
> 
> If a rule is worth making, it should be worth enforcing. It's much "nicer" if you can avoid the dirty work of hurting a kid's feelings by sending him home yourself, sure - *but at the end of the day, you are responsible for your own rules and the people you let around your kid - that's "parenting your own child."*


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

Well, of course not. And the other mom can't "force" the OP to never let her son set foot on her doorstep. The OP is doing the best she can do. If the other mom makes a rule, it's her rule, and ultimately she has to enforce it. She can ask for help enforcing it (and did), but it's really her job.

If she doesn't even bother to enforce her own rule - whether out of "politeness" or being wishy-washy or lacking a backbone or being plain nutso - the OP shouldn't have to. It's lunacy.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> If she doesn't even bother to enforce her own rule - whether out of "politeness" or being wishy-washy or lacking a backbone or being plain nutso - the OP shouldn't have to. It's lunacy.


the OP knowing how the other mother felt *still* allowed her DD there- name calling can go both way can't it?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Goodness I love Mothering. It is always soooo helpful to get lots of different opinions.

I am not good at the multi-quote thing, but I wanted to answer a couple of questions. First, this is the only other family on the block with children older than toddlerhood, so there isn't any group of kids playing outside. I wish there were more kids around. This was the first week of summer vacation and DS had begged to be allowed to stay home for part of the summer rather than doing camp every day. I was eager to try since there weren't many camp options for that week and it saved me a *ton* of money (cheap daycamp is about $200-250 per child per week around here). Clearly, it didn't work and both DD and DS are spending the rest of the summer at a variety of camps . And yes, DS was told specifically "since you demonstrated you are not old enough to stay home alone and follow house rules, we will need to find camps for you this summer". They are both having fun and DD has two of those camp weeks with her best friend (other moms' DD). To me, that's pretty reasonable parenting. 

Yes, other mom was clear that she feared both inappropriate conversation AND inappropriate physical interaction. And yes, I was pretty clear with DS that these were her fears, while also being clear that I thought this was an over-reaction on her part, not personal with DS but her reaction to all teen boys. After this episode, I was also clear with DD that she couldn't invite DS to go along to X's house, in case that should happen. I did NOT call the other mom a loon or any other name, just explained that some moms have different fears and rules -- sort of like I don't allow certain types of video games that X's mom does.

Other mom and I actually really like each other and enjoy being friends. Its rare for me to have "mom friends" and so far this has been really the only issue we've seriously disagreed with. So after using you guys as a sounding board, we have talked this over several times and come to an agreement about who should do what, including the idea that she really should turn him away at the door if he arrives to play again. At the same time, I haven't given him any opportunity it do so. And the few times when both girls have been free and wanted to play I have mostly had them to my house so DS doesn't feel so excluded. This also makes my DD happier since she find the 7 YO boy a pain. I think that's the best compromise I've been able to come up with.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

OK -- this one thing I really want to address and the quote box is coming up empty --

"the OP knowing how the other mother felt *still* allowed her DD there- name calling can go both way can't it?"

I didn't "allow him there" -- he was told he couldn't, I wasn't there, he did it anyway. The consequence for that was he lost his chance to be spend even a little time at home alone this summer and is now enrolled in camp every day until school starts (well, except the 2 days there is no camp and DH and I are splitting those). Which also means I took a deep swallow and paid out more than $1,000 to have him supervised for the remaining weeks. Truly, I think I took responsibility here.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Other mom and I actually really like each other and enjoy being friends. Its rare for me to have "mom friends" and so far this has been really the only issue we've seriously disagreed with. So after using you guys as a sounding board, we have talked this over several times and come to an agreement about who should do what, including the idea that she really should turn him away at the door if he arrives to play again. At the same time, I haven't given him any opportunity it do so. And the few times when both girls have been free and wanted to play I have mostly had them to my house so DS doesn't feel so excluded. This also makes my DD happier since she find the 7 YO boy a pain. I think that's the best compromise I've been able to come up with.


not know what the other children knew and seeing how you express you like her, I see no ill in what she did-sounds like she is a nice person and you can get along and live near her and not some lunny~nutso - glad to hear that!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> "the OP knowing how the other mother felt *still* allowed her DD there- name calling can go both way can't it?"
> 
> I didn't "allow *him* there"


meaning you allowed your *DD* there not DS


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I think you are missing it here- the other mom has 3 kids in the house (one is the sibling) and you expect her to tell the DS in front of the others? Like I said, we have no clue what the OP's DD knew and *yes*, I think she was acting polite in how it was handled.
> 
> ...


The other mom created the entire situation, aside from the fact that OP's ds disobeyed her, which she's already addressed with him. She wants the OP to enforce her rules, but she doesn't want to enforce them herself. Ridiculous.

As to the entire thought of "well, she already had the one - she really couldn't say no to the sibling". How on earth does that follow? DD1 is frequently invited over to people's houses, and ds2 sometimes asks if he can come, too...and the answer is frequently "no". So, he has a meltdown (or doesn't, if we're lucky) and that's that. It's not the other parent's job t parent my child, so they aren't required to work things out between my children. Their job is to be the gatekeeper for their own home/children.

You continue to argue that the other mom shouldn't have to parent OP's ds, but continue to defend her decision to do so, in lieu of enforcing her own rule. Her actions make no sense.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> meaning you allowed your *DD* there not DS


Oops -- sorry. Totally misread this. Sometimes the abbreviations slip past me. Apologies.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom*
> 
> OK -- this one thing I really want to address and the quote box is coming up empty --
> 
> ...


E&A's mom, sounds like you have it worked out. I'm glad


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I think it is weird that mom is okay with her DD being at your house with your DS but not your DS playing with her DS. Just saying.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber*
> 
> I think it is weird that mom is okay with her DD being at your house with your DS but not your DS playing with her DS. Just saying.


When her DD and mine are playing, DS rarely gets anywhere near them. While DS will happily play video games with the younger boy, he wants NOTHING to do with playing princess vet fairies with the girls!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Her actions make no sense.


seems like the other mom is a nice person and the OP likes her and that is what matters


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom*
> 
> When her DD and mine are playing, DS rarely gets anywhere near them. While DS will happily play video games with the younger boy, he wants NOTHING to do with playing princess vet fairies with the girls!


I'm glad that you guys have found a solution that works for the adults and for the kids.

Summers are a funky deal for teens -- figuring out how much structure they need is really a moving target.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I agree with everyone else who believes she is being unreasonable. If we had a nickel for every time some child came to our door and wanted to play and we had to be the bad guy and say no. Well, OK, I'm not good at that, so I just let them in, even the younger ones I didn't want there because I didn't see them as the actual friend to my daughter. And then when I had the youngest child, she was never welcome, because she was "too young." The funny thing is my 13 year old daughter's 13 year old friend comes over and ends up playing with my 8 year old, because my daughter is antisocial and doesn't want to play most of the time. But she would never be invited over, nope. But thankfully that's all worked itself out now.

If she had complained to me, I would have told her that I did tell her that she is giving a mixed message by allowing it and then complaining behind his back. I hope he is enjoying summer camp, but now who is staying with your daughter? Is she going too?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viola*
> . I hope he is enjoying summer camp, but now who is staying with your daughter? Is she going too?


Yep, camp all around. The plan was always for her to spend most of her time at camps, which she loves. It was just DS that wanted more time to be a "couch potato" for a summer. The other mom and I did coordinate so that our daughters have two weeks together at the same camps -- one day camp and one sleep away.


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## sillygrl (Feb 10, 2008)

First off, I'm glad you've worked things out. This seems like a strange relationship you have with the mother (it would be hard for me to be friends with someone who was worried about my child possibly molesting their child) but then, it's impossible for me to understand everything as it's *your* relationship.

I just wanted to add that I never feel like I'm parenting other children on my block when I tell them my child can or can't play right now. To me, that's parenting my own children. I have to be strict about my kid's diets, which means I have to say no to other people when they offer them something they can't have. It's not being "polite" to say yes and put my child in a position I don't like (either by being hyper from too much sugar or playing with someone who I don't feel comfortable with). I also don't feel like I have to explain "why" if I don't want to. I don't need to tell the very sweet lady at the store why my kid can't have a doughnut. I don't need to tell the kid on my doorstep why I don't want my kids out playing.

I would have suggested to the OP that if the neighbor called again, to go ahead and give her permission to send her son back home. Some parents are worried about a confrontation with the other parents and won't say anything.


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

I am going to say something that might be totally off base but I would feel uncomfortable that only my 9 year old daughter is allowed in her house but not my son. My brother went with me to play. This is one of the best things about having siblings. They help keep you safe and her weirdness about not letting him there but then letting him then then not letting him there shows she herself is not stable and I'm not sure I would be ok with my younger child being alone there.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i am glad things worked out for you.

however for your son...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom*
> 
> The consequence for that was he lost his chance to be spend even a little time at home alone this summer and is now enrolled in camp every day until school starts (well, except the 2 days there is no camp and DH and I are splitting those). Which also means I took a deep swallow and paid out more than $1,000 to have him supervised for the remaining weeks. Truly, I think I took responsibility here.


i feel really really sad (mainly coz dd and i enjoy those simple, free days of summer so much). its a real harsh punishment for a punitive 'crime'. i am glad you had the means to shell out.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meemee*
> however for your son...
> 
> i feel really really sad (mainly coz dd and i enjoy those simple, free days of summer so much). its a real harsh punishment for a punitive 'crime'. i am glad you had the means to shell out.


Realize that visiting the neighbors when he had been asked not to was NOT the only thing involved in this decision. Over the week there were a number of things that demonstrated that he was not yet ready to spend such a long stretch of time unsupervised. The dog didn't get walked, watered or fed (and the resulting mess wasn't cleaned up); the food trash piles in the family room were atrocious; he answered the door for a salesperson; left the house without texting me that he was doing so (beyond going to the neighbors); and so forth. Just not ready to be on his own yet. And that's OK -- we will try again in a few months at Christmas vacation.

I think we all have memories of more care free summers than my children had this year, but I also know that I had a mom at home while they were happening and neighborhood children (and moms) to watch out for the group as we played from house to house. My kids have neither of those to support a less structured summer schedule. And yes, I am sad that they don't have this too. My DH was able to take a week where he could work mostly at home and let the kids have some down time and they also had a week with my parents where it was much less structured as well. We tried for the best balance we could given the realities of the situation.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I'm glad the situation worked out, but that does suck about how it had to be resolved and that your DS lost his alone-time priveledges (from what you describe I probably would have done the same).

I probably would have enforced the other mother's rules though, for the safety of my son. If he were to be accused of something, that's bad news with that age difference. Generally if people tip their hat that they are hypersensitive and it seems to be directed at me or my family I give them a wide, wide berth. If there was something specific or evidence I would hope that I'd be able to see that and acknowledge it (hopefully I'll never have to test that theory), but if someone in general behaves like all male children X amount of years older than their kid should automatically be suspect for rapists/molesters/ect, I wouldn't consider them to be a safe person to have around my children unsupervised. I'm sure that will offend some people here, and while I too am a survivor so I do understand what might drive someone to have a worldview like that, I don't believe it's healthy or appropriate when applied as a blanket rule and I would worry about their judgement when it came to my kids. I don't allow my kids to be around people who are not safe with them.


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