# 3 and 4 year old girls have already outgrown baby dolls???



## bluedaisy (Sep 5, 2008)

My dd is turning 2 next week and she is really into babies right now so i made her a mini diaper bag with diapers, wipes, bibs, etc for her baby dolls.

I was thinking of making a similar thing for my 4 year old neice for Christmas but then I realized that she pretty much outgrew baby dolls at age 3 and moved onto princesses. Now she is obsessed with princess barbie type dolls - for her 4th birthday party she got lots of princess barbie dolls, even some nail polish and lip gloss.

I've been thinking about this a lot and it makes me sad - I remember playing with baby dolls at least until I was 8 or 9.

I also think it's a reflection of our cultural values - what do we value in women? Not nurturing, caretaking, mothering, etc but how they look, what clothes they wear, etc. It makes me sad/angry that from such a young age girls are learning these values.

Have you noticed this trend? What do you think? When did your children outgrow baby dolls?


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## lyterae (Jul 10, 2005)

My dd is 4.5 and while she has recently begun to express a love for the "barbie" sized dolls and princess anything, she still regularly carries and cares for her babydolls, and they play "babies" at daycare as well... She would have loved her own diaper bag for baby.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Aw they do??? My DD is 17 mo and she looooves her babies. Loves them. I was shocked; TBH I thought dolls were creepy when I was a kid, and didn't really plan on getting DD one. But when I saw how much she loved talking about babies, I got her a little baby doll, and it just melts my heart to see how much she loves playing with it. I honestly think I'm gonna be a little teary when she gets too grown up for them. For some reason I assumed it would be later.

Could it also be possible that many 3/4 year olds have younger siblings - live babies are probably so much more awesome than play babies.

And could it also be that these fashion dolls are filling a niche in the sense that kids seem to like to play with dolls that are the same "age" as them? Babies and toddlers love baby dolls because it's a world that is familiar to them. What would be the equivalent for a 4 year old?


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I think some kids just aren't that inot baby dolls. My 4 year old loves them. She'll choose a baby doll over any other toy including Barbie any time. My other daughter never cared about them. when I go pick up my 7 year old from her afterschool program, though, there are usually a lot of kids (mainly girls0 her age 2nd grade playing with the baby dolls she just isn't one of them.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

It might be the kids she plays with. Perhaps there are a lot of older sisters in the mix? I know that my daughter's friends all seem to be with baby dolls, and they are three, four, and five. But these kids are all around this age and none of them attend elementary school yet, and none of them have older sisters (there are just two older brothers in the group).

It's a very mainstream group, too.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

My dd has never liked dolls- baby or fashion dolls. She was never into princesses either.

She does baby her stuffed animals though. I think she actually mothers them more at the age of 10 than she did at the age of 4 so maybe the child will come around to that type of play again in future. Just lately she has gotten more into dresses and more girly stuff.

I can't speak for all girls. Some girls we know were very into princess play, Barbie, and boyfriends very young and other girls were not.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

My kids played with baby dolls for a long time. They played with them less as they got older because they played with a wider variety of toys. Just because an older girl like Barbies or American Girl dolls (or lego!) doesn't mean that she no longer like babies.

And all our baby doll stuff was also used to care for stuffed animals.

I think it depends on the kid.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think some kids are into baby dolls for a long time, some for a shorter time, and some not at all. My dd was playing with them at 4 for sure, though she's more into the American Girl dolls now at 8 (almost 9). I remember her and a friend playing a ton with baby dolls a year or two ago. But to some extent this could just be a preferences thing. I never played with baby dolls as a kid, or really any kind of doll.

I will say that I have seen in families sometimes where kids are encouraged to become interested in older things. Like when my dd was 4 or 5, I remember a mom in the neighborhood where we were living there in the Chicago area saying that her dd (the same age) had "advanced" to High School Musical and wasn't into baby dolls anymore, but when my dd would play with dolls this girl would love to join in, and the mom would see this and encourage High School Musical barbie doll play instead. I think sometimes some parents think that kids acting more grown up is equivalent with kids being smarter or more advanced or something. This is the only parent I've seen do this though, so I don't know if it's common. I knew this mom in high school, and she was very popular and I was under the impression that it was important to her that her dd also become popular so it might be about that? Like wanting her dd to play with "cool" stuff?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*  I remember a mom in the neighborhood where we were living there in the Chicago area saying that her dd (the same age) had "advanced" to High School Musical and wasn't into baby dolls anymore, but when my dd would play with dolls this girl would love to join in, and the mom would see this and encourage High School Musical barbie doll play instead.


This is sooo funny!!

And if it weren't for location, I'd be sure that I had met that mom!!!!!


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I don't think it's necessarily a reflection of culture although it can be something that parents project as some PPs mentioned (wanting more grown-up toys for their kids). I was never into baby dolls or barbie-type dolls as a kid. I did like stuffed animals a lot and I know a number of parents (including my DH) who discourage those mainly because they see them as clutter.

After I got over my dds liking babydolls as toddlers I let them lead the way. Dd1 moved on pretty quickly, her baby doll phase probably only lasted a year or two (maybe 2-4 yrs old), and she had many other interests during that time period also, (FP Little People, seals, mice, kitties). Dd2 loved her some babies and did probably until she was 5 or 6. She hasn't played with a baby doll in awhile now, but they've both picked up an American Girl lookalike in the past week or two. Dd2 has played with her American Girlish doll off and on since she got it and dd1 only played with it right at the time she got it and then it languished in the toy box until a new American Girl catalog arrived in the mail.

Both my girls absolutely loved certain stuffed animals and would be really upset if anything happened to them. We did lose one baby doll that Dd1 had loved as a toddler. Dd2 had it when she was a toddler and it disappeared when we were visiting Grandma. We got a replacement (never found the original), but neither girl was that upset about losing the original. I think they would have been really upset about certain stuffed animals, though.

So, in my opinion sometimes 3 and 4 year old girls do naturally outgrow baby dolls and it has nothing to do with culture or parents, but is just a reflection of the girls' interests.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

my 4yo loves baby dolls. she's 4 so her "cultural values" are what happens in our home. my 7yo son is also into baby dolls from time to time.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I still played with baby dolls til I was at least ten. Baby dolls and Fisher Price people stayed in my room until sixth grade.

But, my daughter never really played with baby dolls the way I did. She loved My Little Ponies and teeny tiny dolls like the rubber Polly Pocket type dolls. She played with Littlest pet shop until she was 12. She had, and loved her baby dolls, but never played with them the way I did.

I don't think your niece outgrew dolls, but, she likes different things more than dolls.


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## greenemami (Nov 1, 2007)

Dd (3.5) LOVES her babies still-I made her a little diaper bag for Christmas last year too  Dsd (~9.5) still enjoys playing with her American Girl doll, but stopped playing with baby dolls maybe around 6-7? She passed her babies down to dd around then, but would still play with them with dd. I think she **** plays with Barbie dolls at her moms' house though (we don't do Barbie at our house). I agree that it just is part of what they are exposed to, dd would probably love Barbie dolls at this age, but I am not interested in exposing her to them at this age (or ever, if I get my way, lol!)


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## bonamarq (Oct 18, 2006)

I think this is partly a function of what is encouraged by the the parent (High school musical mom) and party of what the child is interested in -

I was never all that into Barbies - had 1 or 2? but my cousin had a HUGE collection and was into them - I preferred to BE the mom and 'play house' - Loved my "Baby Alive" that I could feed and change diapers (disgusting to think of the mold possibilities now).

My dd (almost 7 yo) is really not into either - but defintiely more Barbie oriented than baby doll - but actually she is FAR more into stuffed animals than any other toy or activity - which is why - when we did an 'inventory' to reinforce the tally marks she was learning at school we discovered she more than 122 of them! (that is PLUSH animals only)


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Frankly, I value women for things beyond their ovaries, breasts, uteruses, and "caretaking" abilities, myself. And if you think that women being valued for "how they look" (though granted The Look has changed throughout the centuries) is a new thing, I suggest that perhaps you are romanticizing a tad. I think seeing women's primarily value as being caretakers and mothers to be just as gross as seeing them primarily as sexual relief objects. Will all of us have elements of both/are there many women who will concentrate on one or the other during certain times in their lives? Sure...but it's still not respecting the whole woman. Even the best mom does not only have that side of her--and even the woman who likes to wear tube tops and 5 inch heels (believe it or not) has more than that side to herself as well.

My DD was never (and still is not) into baby dolls. She prefered to play with and nuture her stuffed animals and animal figurines. I don't worry about her getting into to beastiality. Similarly, your niece is not going to be a slut because she like to play dress up with her dolls that have a wider variety of choices than a baby doll, and because she'd rather do that than change baby diapers. It's not a reflection on her future abilities as a mother. I was the same way, and yet I have 3 happy kids that were cloth diapered, nuturued, and are growing into fantastic young people. Meanwhile, my mom, who loves baby dolls (and still collects them) was abusive, anything but nuturing, and prefers "stuff" to human connection and interaction.

When you start to extrapolate your niece liking something different than what your kid likes (or you like) to the ills of society--unless she's having Barbie orgies/drunken parties--I think that's time to kind of take a step back and stop taking yourself so seriously.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluedaisy*
> 
> I also think it's a reflection of our cultural values - what do we value in women? Not nurturing, caretaking, mothering, etc but how they look, what clothes they wear, etc. It makes me sad/angry that from such a young age girls are learning these values.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

My ten year old still has her dolls.

My oldest daughter gave them up long ago. She was never much into baby doll type play.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Frankly, I value women for things beyond their ovaries, breasts, uteruses, and "caretaking" abilities, myself. And if you think that women being valued for "how they look" (though granted The Look has changed throughout the centuries) is a new thing, I suggest that perhaps you are romanticizing a tad. I think seeing women's primarily value as being caretakers and mothers to be just as gross as seeing them primarily as sexual relief objects. Will all of us have elements of both/are there many women who will concentrate on one or the other during certain times in their lives? Sure...but it's still not respecting the whole woman. Even the best mom does not only have that side of her--and even the woman who likes to wear tube tops and 5 inch heels (believe it or not) has more than that side to herself as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Very well said. I think we all deserve to like what we like. Let our children like what they like. My daughter wore bright green furry boots with Tinkerbell on them along with Spiderman Pajamas and carried a PJ Sparkles mermaid doll that she had cut all the hair off of for two months. She seems pretty normal now as a young adult.

When she did have a doll, she usually cut all the hair off of it. She likes doing other people's hair now, but has no plans to be a hair dresser.

She played with Bratz dolls, but is very modest herself.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Would your niece like a set of baby things for her Barbies' babies?

Ooo! Or bedding, upholstered furniture?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
> 
> Would your niece like a set of baby things for her Barbies' babies?
> 
> Ooo! Or bedding, upholstered furniture?


Or a nice bag to keep them in? But, I like the bedding idea. I would have loved that.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

My 5 year old DD and 3 year old DS are both into babydolls. But we have a 6 mo DD, so that might play a role.

Carma


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

Only one of my daughters was ever really into baby dolls. She's 7 now and bought a baby with her birthday money. My oldest daughter didn't really play with toys, (she's an odd child and was busy "being Ainsley") and my youngest daughter loves all things considered "boy" toys. She had a massive train set, loves hot wheels, balls, frogs, etc. I think a lot of it has to do with the child's personality and not cultural values, because I provided all of them with a vast variety of toys and actually we still have toys from my oldest dd's toddler/preschool years so they all pretty much had the same stuff available to them.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Frankly, I value women for things beyond their ovaries, breasts, uteruses, and "caretaking" abilities, myself. And if you think that women being valued for "how they look" (though granted The Look has changed throughout the centuries) is a new thing, I suggest that perhaps you are romanticizing a tad. I think seeing women's primarily value as being caretakers and mothers to be just as gross as seeing them primarily as sexual relief objects. Will all of us have elements of both/are there many women who will concentrate on one or the other during certain times in their lives? Sure...but it's still not respecting the whole woman. Even the best mom does not only have that side of her--and even the woman who likes to wear tube tops and 5 inch heels (believe it or not) has more than that side to herself as well.
> 
> ...


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

My DD didn't really start playing with baby dolls until almost 4. She was into stuffed and model animals, blocks, balls and dinosaurs before then. She likes princesses, castles, dragons and knights now at 5 but still loves her babies too. She likes playing with a mix of toys all at the same time and doesn't seem to outgrow things often. I have a really cute pic of 4 little dolls and a ninja turtle standing in front of a star trek shuttle craft that had model monkeys in the back.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I played with Barbies over baby dolls and I am both unfashionable and nurturing. I wouldn't worry about that part of it


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I vote for very dependent on the child. My dd is 6 and still plays with her dolls sometimes. She plays with stuffed animals more, however, as does ds (age 9). This summer one of our neighbors, aged 11 (boy) spent a lot of time at our house. Even he played stuffed animals (and he initiated the games). The 11 year old comes from a very media mainstream house -- his little sister is really into Hanna Montana and Barbies. He plays video games I'd never let my kids touch. He has his own iPod. And he still played stuffed animals.

There is also a developmental period where doll play may fade out for a bit. For some kids it comes back, for others it doesn't. 2-3 year olds are pretty content just acting out the daily care routines. But once you've done that and 'mastered' that type of play, your dolls need to do something different to make it interesting. Not all kids make that switch; some move on to other types of play. Actually, ds didn't really get interested in stuffed animals until he was a bit older. The stuffed animals in our house lead very interesting lives. They go to school. They played a rousing game of charades this afternoon (you haven't lived until you've tried to make a stuffed elephant act out putting on boots!). There is an "Animal ball" (baseball) game every Saturday in our living room. There is a complicated Penguin family tree that ds is working on expanding. The penguins came traveling with us this summer. They went to the beach. They went camping.


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## BellaClaudia (Aug 1, 2008)

My DD at 5.5 is gradually expressing her interst in baby care . When she was about 1-2 she would play with baby dolls occassionally and then

she moved to princesses and never looked back. I would say now from what I experienced that she tends to play with things that she relates to

as when she was a baby/toddler she wanted to do play with babies and take care of them as she has been taken care of. Then she

felt like a big girl and she was pretending to be a princess and so she did play with princesses only. Now she sometimes displays

interest in taking care of a baby doll again and this sometimes is with actuall baby doll and sometimes with any toy she wants,

she just will do all the swaddling, nursing or bottle/sippy feeding or food feeding .. bathing..putting the toy in the bed etc..

I realise that for that now she does not need actuall baby doll, she will do this with a soft toy, with a princess toy.. she simply

has enough imagination to project her care onto any toy without needing specifics 

I noticed that older girls actually go back to baby care because their mothering instinct so to speak kicks in at older age

so this is just different stage I would think. I see my daughter somewhat headed that way so I will let you know in few years.

For now it is still princesses and Barbies. Now she is big time into Snow White. Snow White and her beloved Cottage dollhouse and this is hot topic these days

but there are days when she would take even seven dwarfs and after tending to them as they were babies she will put them all to sleep right there.


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## Mammajamma (Feb 9, 2008)

Wow that is really young I think to be moving on to princess type dolls- my daughter still LOVES babies and she is 8! She actually got a very special baby doll for her eighth b-day and was sooo grateful, she now has her heart set on a moby to carry it in for Christmas. I think though that the way that we live plays a very large role in shaping the types of toys and such that she likes...Also both my sons love to play with the dolls and pretend to take care of them like real babies too...


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I'll say another "it depends". Dd played with baby dolls and started with Groovy Girls and Barbies and Polly Pockets at some point (and Playmobil and Lego minifigs too). I can't recall exactly when that happened, but she still played with baby dolls. Her devotion was always to her stuffed animals though. Even last summer, when she was 13, she wanted a special bear that she spotted when we were traveling. Interest in dolls ebbed and flowed. When she was 11, her heart's desire was for a very elaborate dress-up doll that took her fancy. I knew that she wasn't really going to be into doll-playing much longer, but she did get it for Christmas, enjoyed it for a while and sure enough, it hasn't been out of the box in 2 years.

I think part of "it depends" is whether the child has another outlet to express their nurturing impulses. DD found it mostly with her stuffed animals, but also with pets. A child with baby siblings may not need or want a doll to play with, if they can help with a real baby.

OP, if it's the fashion and body image aspect that is troubling you, there are lots of alternatives to Barbies and Bratz dolls that don't emphasize the fashion stuff. OTOH, you could encourage your niece's creativity with dress-up and give her some fabric ends and notions and she can try crafting her own doll outfits. She'll need some help with cutting and stitching, but it may inspire her. DD did this and now as a teen, she buys vintage clothes at thrift shops and re-makes them. She's into fashion, but it's on her own terms and it's an expression of her individualism.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> There is a complicated Penguin family tree that ds is working on expanding. The penguins came traveling with us this summer. They went to the beach. They went camping.


Those photos are adorable! Last year, DD (then almost 13 y.o.!) did something similar with a family of marsupials - kangaroo, koala and wombat - when we took an extended road trip in the van. They were snuggled comfortably on the back of a head rest so they had a great view of the passing countryside. I noticed that they are still in the van, though, so I think the charm wore off once the trip ended and she had real human friends to see again everyday.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

I think a lot of this has to do with which type of pretend play an individual child prefers. I think some kids like to be IN the action and some kids like to direct the action. For kids who like to be in the action, baby dolls might appeal--then they can be the parent, or big brother/sister, or whatever in the narrative they're constructing and the baby doll is more or less life-size. My 4 yo is much more a "direct the action" kind of kid. She doesn't play with dolls much at all, but she LOVE Playmobil stuff, her dollhouse, and setting up little scenarios with her small stuffed animals. She typically narrates the action that she's having the toys enact. Compared to other kids I know, she is also much less into dress-up. She has some dress-up clothes and uses them occasionally, but she's much definitely less interested in BEING the pirate/princess/robber/teacher than she is in setting up, talking about, and moving her figures through the pirate adventure/princess story/robbery/classroom.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Some kids will outgrow them, some kids won't, some kids will never play with dolls. IT all depends on the kid.

I have a 9yo who doesn't play with toys. She never really has unless she's at someone's house & they want to or her sisters want to. You can tell she really doesn't want to, she doesn't have an interest in toys & never has.

I have a 12yo who played with dolls & barbies & went through stages of playing with both or none. She stopped playing with them on a regular basis quite a few years ago.

I have an 8yo who shows no signs of giving up playing with dolls. she went through a very strong princess stage. She is in a big stage of playing with dolls & is getting a Maplelea doll for xmas. The other 2 said they wanted them too, but when asked both said they'd only play with it if they HAD to. Sorry not paying $95 for a doll you won't play with. The 8yo I know will play with it.


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## bluedaisy (Sep 5, 2008)

OP here - thanks for all the responses.

I think maybe I read a little too much into the babydoll thing - I wrote that post the same week that I watched 2 documentaries on how media portrays women and the aspects of women that are valued in this culture, which is essentially her sexuality, appearance, and her ability to attract a man. I also had some interesting discussions with friends from other cultures about how much women are valued as mothers in some other cultures, and I feel like American culture doesn't really value women as mothers at all (I am in no way suggesting that women should ONLY be valued as mothers).

Then this babydoll thing came up with my neice and I guess I was thinking more about what the culture markets to girls and not so much what girls choose to play with - the post was not meant to be critical of my neice at all. It seems like the culture markets babydolls to 2 year olds, Dora to 3 years old, and then by 4 it's princesses. Maybe that is oversimplified - and I think the princess stuff reflects those characteristics that our media values in women - sexuality, appearance, and attracting a man. I guess that is what I was thinking when I wrote the original post - that the media sells these toys to such young girls that is teaching them a very narrow definition of what it means to be a woman.

I am glad to hear that there are still plenty of older girls that play with babydolls, and I realize that "nurturing" play can take many shapes and not just babydolls - it just seems like there are not many toys marketed to girls above toddler age that draw out this nurturing side.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> Frankly, I value women for things beyond their ovaries, breasts, uteruses, and "caretaking" abilities, myself. And if you think that women being valued for "how they look" (though granted The Look has changed throughout the centuries) is a new thing, I suggest that perhaps you are romanticizing a tad. I think seeing women's primarily value as being caretakers and mothers to be just as gross as seeing them primarily as sexual relief objects. Will all of us have elements of both/are there many women who will concentrate on one or the other during certain times in their lives? Sure...but it's still not respecting the whole woman. Even the best mom does not only have that side of her--and even the woman who likes to wear tube tops and 5 inch heels (believe it or not) has more than that side to herself as well.
> 
> ...


Tigerchild, I found this post to be quite offensive - you read SO MUCH into my original post that I never said. I DID NOT suggest women should be valued for the reproductive abilities only - I feel like we don't value mothers much at all in this culture, especially after having lived in a culture where women are greatly respected as mothers. I also never said that women should not be valued at all for appearance - I realize that women have pretty much at all times been valued in part for their beauty - my issue is that it seems to be the ONLY thing we value in women.

I also NEVER suggested I thought my neice would become a slut and I was very offended by that - I love my neice dearly and the post was not intended at all to be critical of my neice. NOR did I say that she would not be a good mother because she doesn't play with dolls.

I was merely trying to look at what characteristics of women are valued in the toys that are marketed to young girls and what is says to young girls about what it means to be a woman. I realize I didn't express myself very clearly in the OP but you assumed so many things that I never said.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I just loved this post so much. I was also wondering, is that one flashlight for each penguin in the camping picture? LOL!!!

I have not tried to put boots on a stuffed elephant, but I have tried to explain to a 16-month-old that there is nowhere to put doll shoes on a stuffed dolphin, and that was pretty fun, let me tell you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> I vote for very dependent on the child. My dd is 6 and still plays with her dolls sometimes. She plays with stuffed animals more, however, as does ds (age 9). This summer one of our neighbors, aged 11 (boy) spent a lot of time at our house. Even he played stuffed animals (and he initiated the games). The 11 year old comes from a very media mainstream house -- his little sister is really into Hanna Montana and Barbies. He plays video games I'd never let my kids touch. He has his own iPod. And he still played stuffed animals.
> 
> There is also a developmental period where doll play may fade out for a bit. For some kids it comes back, for others it doesn't. 2-3 year olds are pretty content just acting out the daily care routines. But once you've done that and 'mastered' that type of play, your dolls need to do something different to make it interesting. Not all kids make that switch; some move on to other types of play. Actually, ds didn't really get interested in stuffed animals until he was a bit older. The stuffed animals in our house lead very interesting lives. They go to school. They played a rousing game of charades this afternoon (you haven't lived until you've tried to make a stuffed elephant act out putting on boots!). There is an "Animal ball" (baseball) game every Saturday in our living room. There is a complicated Penguin family tree that ds is working on expanding. The penguins came traveling with us this summer. They went to the beach. They went camping.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

That's fair, OP. It wasn't my intention to be offensive, but..I can see your point of view.

To be honest, I get offended quite easily over people extrapolating feminine values from the toys that girls want to play with. Especially if you're going to talk about sexuality. I find it kind of funny that people freak over barbie being in your face as a sex/body object--yet somehow divorce a *baby* from that. IMO that's pretty interesting, and I've never heard much talk on the subject.

Then again, I was raised in a religous subset of the culture that was hypervigilant about guarding (read: repressing, except in very specific contexts) women's sexuality, proper play for young girls (babies and mothers and keeping house only plz k thx). Motherhood was sacred, but to be blunt, women were NOT valued. And neither, really, was motherhood, I would argue. I don't doubt that I am oversensitive to anyone even remotely seeming to want to chain young girls to a specific style of playing, as well as the idea that girls should only express nuturing play otherwise our culture is screwed because things are out of order.

Baby dolls and Barbie/more adult dolls can be completely different play. The bodies are different. The clothes are different. What most kids play with them are different. Teen/Adult/Older Kid dolls can go horseback riding, babysit/have kids/form families, parachute off the top of the stairs, go to school, teach school, ect. While I suppose baby dolls can (and have) done all those things in imaginary play, most kids understand that babies are fragile and need protection. I think that we can hardly say that babies are somehow less consumerist than the rest of the world (even though of course they're not the buyers)--marketing or otherwise.

I am just sad that people have to ascribe so many negative values to a doll-with-boobs-that-aren't-breastfeeding play, vs. a baby doll. I am also pretty sad that people are so scared about girls' sexuality. Yes, sooner than any of us would like, it will be at least shaped by what potential sexual partners think--and trying to equip young women to deal with that is much much easier said than done. But do people really, REALLY truly believe that there is no element of that in baby doll play either? I can assure you, had I stayed in my old life, where motherhood and nuturing children was sacred and should be my primary aspiration as a woman--my value would still have been primarily reflected in the fact that some guy thought I was good/attractive enough to have sex with and bear his children.

But while I can see whatever I want to see in the toy that any given kid chooses to play with--it's nothing to do with the toy itself. (Which is why I think getting too upset over toy selection is kind of missing the point) It just provides me, with my adult knowledge and all my experiences, something to project on, something to look at and make me think about. I don't think that toy selection shapes consciousness so much as how the kid is being raised, what they're being told from their family, faith community, ect. I know that it is easier to blame commerical/media stuff--but I think if we are really honest, we give children (and girls) very mixed and damaging (however unintentional) messages, ourselves. Even if you are trying your best to be conscious of it--it's so easy for bad stuff to slip in there. And that's both painful and scary.


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## bluedaisy (Sep 5, 2008)

Tigerchild, thanks for the thoughtful response...I can understand your strong reaction to my OP and I definitely don't think the way you were brought up is any better than the other extreme of valuing women solely for their looks/sexuality.

In reference to the way women are valued in the US today vs 50 years ago, my friend commented, "It's just a different kind of prison." I certainly do not think the solution is to value women solely for their mothering, "wifely" abilities - I didn't even realize that there were religious groups that only allowed young girls to play with babydolls.

I agree that so many of the values kids pick up are from what they hear and observe their parents doing - definitely a sobering thought! I also think that media influences children more than most people admit, especially given the fact that most kids spend hours a day in front of a screen. And a lot of toys these days are just extensions of the media. Stories are powerful, and the stories the media tell do shape the way children think about what it means to be a man/woman. It's hard to find good "stories" or media that show all of the aspects that should be valued in women - I have a hard time thinking of a character in popular media that is a positive portrayal of a loving, nurturing mother (I'm sure there are some but they are pretty rare). It's certainly not the ONLY valuable aspect of a woman but one I feel has been so devalued in our culture and in popular media.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

My youngest 2 still play with dolls and they are 10 and 8. They also like barbies, stuffed animals and their american girl dolls. But they go through phases. Sometimes they were all about the babies. #3 has been and always was way more into baby dolls than the other two. #2 was always into little dolls like her doll house dolls. Actually just really into little things that could be personified weather it was her little gnome babies or her match box car family she would spend hours making elaborate scenes and scenarios. #1 was all about the dress up and princesses and barbies but mostly dress up. Different kids are into lots of different things and it is really about their personality. It is possible your little friend was never that into babies and just has other interests? I son't think the whole princess thing is bad or that babies are somehow inherently better. sparkling nail polish and lip gloss and high heels are so fun!! barbies are fun. Its possible she had fun with dolls and is now totally having fun with this and next month or year might be something else then the dolls might revive. There are so many fun things to play with when you are a little kid and i know my kids would get absorbed in something for a while and then on to the next thing. Especially for birthdays. It would look like their whole world revolved around something when really they were just into it right then so everyone got them *that*.


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## Jessnet (Apr 11, 2009)

I hated playing with baby dolls when I was was a little girl!

Hated, hated, hated!

And if I had other little girl friends who wanted to play babies, that was even worse! I loved when my boy cousins would come over and we could all play monster trucks!

I had a prized collection of matchbox cars. I washed them, shined them, performed "maintenance" on them, made personal garages for them, etc. I don't think nurturing has to be in the shape of a human baby doll.

I am very glad my mom didn't show disappointment that I wasn't into baby dolls, or direct me to play with a certain kind of gender /age "approved" toy

PS. The best present EVER was the Duke of Hazard Barn Bustin' Stunt Track!!!


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I doubt that she outgrew them. I am betting she is just not in to them. Or, possibly, that her parents pushed her away from them. But more likely that she is not in to them in the first place, even though she might have seemed interested earlier. Some kids just are not in to baby dolls.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

My dd has never been into baby dolls but has always enjoyed kid like dolls and barbies, she has seen almost all of the barbie movies (which are surprisingly a pretty decent alternative to a lot of the kid movies out there and Disney). She doesn't do makeup and stuff with them, but that is also something she isn't exposed to at home because we don't wear makeup. She likes to dress them, do their hair, and play all sorts of imagination games with them even still. She does like fancy clothes, princess stuff, fairy stuff, and having strong girl characters in her imagination, but that hasn't changed who she is as a person and what interests her outside of play and she hasn't really had a true obsession with princess stuff beyond insisting on wearing a dress on a daily basis for years. She is less into the things that seem to be the norm in kid culture for her age than most kids we know and is still very determined to be her own person, so I really don't think the type of dolls a child has are important.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

My dd's have been off and on about playing with baby dolls.

My youngest used to whack people with the harder headed plastic/vinyl dolls, so we got rid of all of them in favor of soft cloth dolls. I think they got more hard headed ones the next Christmas, though, from relatives that didn't pay attention when we explained the need for softer toys.


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## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

I read something not long ago written by an autistic boy when looking for information on why girls have so much pink and boys so much blue.

http://poemsoflove.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/childrens-color-identification/

He was confused on why, and I found it so interesting to read from the perspective of someone who didn't have a social understanding of the concept.

But it made me think a lot, and I have to say.

When I was growing up we had all kinds of toys around the place, they were never "boys" or "girls" toys they were just toys. We shared most our toys apart from the few in our bedrooms, and even then, they were only not shared while in the rooms. Once they were out of the rooms it was fairgame! I remember we use to play a few wargames, it was pirates against sock paws! We use to take all the socks out of the draws and put them on certain toys paws and arms and we made many eye patches for the pirates. We use to go outside and make basis and all sorts of strange things. We also played with a tonne of lego, dolls and other things! There was no restriction on pink, or dolls being for girls or army men and lego being for boys. And I sure went through a lot of different kinds of toys that I played with.

Its fine to guide children to safe play, and safe toys but to dictate what they should like and don't like seems wrong to me.

Right now with my children here we have a lot of soft-animals and dolls around. They have been everything from babies to soldiers, shopping assistants, princesses, princes, astronaughts, police officers and sailors... actually just a few hours ago when I popped in to see how the kids were getting along for bed, Miss 7 introduced me to a polar bear who just became king of a city made made out of lego.

Kids will be kids and like, hate, love different things. They will change there likes and dislikes while they grow up based on things they see and experience growing up and we as parents just have to try work with them!


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

My 9 yo dd is far more interested in baby dolls now than she was at preschool age. I remember being interested in baby dolls at her age, too, moreso than younger ages. It's crossed my mind that there may be some prepubertal biological influence that leads some girls to be interested in baby dolls at this age.


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## swisscanmom (Aug 29, 2007)

I never played with baby dolls much as a kid, did not like barbie dolls either. I really don't think it is a sign of the times, just a difference in interests.

Funny as now I am a childcare provider for babies and toddlers, lol....


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunnmama*
> 
> My 9 yo dd is far more interested in baby dolls now than she was at preschool age. I remember being interested in baby dolls at her age, too, moreso than younger ages. It's crossed my mind that there may be some prepubertal biological influence that leads some girls to be interested in baby dolls at this age.


I think there might be. My 10 year old has ramped up the marriage/baby play/stories in the last year or so.She did not care about pretending to to be a parent as a preschooler. She has also never been into Barbie and princess stuff- preferring bugs, dogs and nature- but is now ga-ga over dresses, heels and very feminine dressing characters. She still doesn't like dolls. If I give her a doll she'll strip it and put the clothes and use the accessories for one of her animal babies. As we do not have tv reception and she often watches dvd's aimed at the much younger set, she's always had a mix of toys and played more with boys so I don't think it is all down to an outside pressure or society telling her who to be.

I guess I feel there are a lot of factors that could lead a child to be interested in a certain type of play.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

My 7yo plays with all different kinds of dolls.

She likes baby dolls that she can push around in the doll stroller and wear in the sling. She likes smaller dolls that she can play with in her dollhouse. She also has a couple of the American Girl dolls that she really enjoys.


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