# switching from 5-point harness to belt positioning booster seat



## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

So it was pointed out to me that the seat I have only goes up to 40lbs as a 5 point harness AND my car manual says not to use the LATCH for over 40 lbs either... Do I have to take off the latch completely to use the seat as a belt positioning booster or can I leave it latched in since the latch won't be holding the seat and the child anymore because the seat belt will.... AND: can I use the 5-point harness with the seat belt over it for extra security?

I know these may seem like stupid questions but 4 years ago the car saftey inspectors at the hospital said to only use either the latch or the seatbelt to install a car seat and like, two weeks ago someone from cps said on the Today show, for extra security to install car seats with both the latch and the seatbelt.

I can not buy another car seat. If it's a choice between a new car seat and food, I'm sorry, but food has to win out. Unless someone has an ability to get me a free car seat, I have to use the one I have.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I am fairly certain that if your car seat manual doesn't say it is ok to use latch with the booster, that you should most definitely not do it. Some seats allow it, but they would clearly specify that in their manuals.
I'm also fairly certain that you shouldn't use the harness and the seat belt at the same time. It probably would interfere with how the booster is supposed to work.

I'm really surprised that anyone would say that on tv!!


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## nevaehsmommy (Aug 6, 2007)

latch or seat belt not both.

NO you can not use the harness and the seat belt. You have to unthread the harness and take it out of the seat as well.

You do not have to take the latch of completly either, simply tighten the latch and wrap the straps into each other.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Do not install any seat with LATCH and vehicle belt.

Do not use the vehicle belt and the seat's internal harness.

Very few boosters can be LATCHed; yours is not one of them.

Take the harness out of the seat. Put the seat on the vehicle seat. Use the lap and shoulder vehicle belt to buckle the child and the seat into the car.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyJoia* 
two weeks ago someone from cps said on the Today show, for extra security to install car seats with both the latch and the seatbelt.


wow! what complete morons they allow to talk on tv about carseats.

as others have said, no you cant use LATCH and the seat belt. the car seats have never been tested in that manner before....so there is no way of knowing whether/not they are safe.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Got it, thanks.

I'm on craigslist right now looking for something. I really appreciate all of the information I have learned from this forum. Like I said in the other post, I wish I could go back in time. My FIL bought us this car seat and I was really POed that he bought it at the time because we really needed a convertible car seat. DD was 6 months old and 21lbs, so DH and I bought a mid priced convertible and put this one away until we turned her around at 29lbs (18 months old) at a car seat saftey fair at the local college. I don't think they were very knowledgeable because they wigged out on me for not turning her around sooner... they were like, "your car seat is forward facing after 20lbs" (the convertible) and I was like, "Yeah, but rear facing up to 30lbs"... Rather than stand there in the sun arguing, I just let them take out the convertible and install the FF one (the one she's in now).

We thought we got a great seat, I mean, it goes up to 100lbs, we didn't know any better at the time, we never thought of how old or how big our DD would be when she outgrew the 5 point harness. Now she's right at that point teetering between 39 and 40lbs and I really don't want her in a booster full time.

Yes, I know to ask about expiration dates when purchasing a car seat on craigslist.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

My personal opinion is that I'd rather see a 40-pound child in a highback booster than in a seat with an unknown history (craigslist) while you save up for a higher-weight harnessed seat.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
My personal opinion is that I'd rather see a 40-pound child in a highback booster than in a seat with an unknown history (craigslist) while you save up for a higher-weight harnessed seat.

That concerns me as well... just because they say it hasn't been in an accident, doesn't make it 100% true... then there could be rich old grandparents that bought them thinking they'd be driving their grandkids around a lot and then they didn't and they just want to get rid of the bulky car seat. (I live in south FL)


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Also, they may have the best of intentions but not know how to take care of their seats -- maybe they wanted to get the seat all spiffy for a new owner and they put the harness in the washer and dryer. (That would be BAD!) I'm sympathetic to tight budgets, really I am, but I really feel that unless you're willing to trust a craigslist poster with your child's life, you're better off using a booster, driving as little as possible, and saving up for a seat you can trust.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

so... hypothetically speaking, If I were to convince my FIL to get me another seat, and ask for the Britax Frontier, I would have to install it with a seat belt, right? since my car owner's manual says to use a booster over 40lbs and not to use the latch over 40lbs. The site I'm looking at says the latch on the frontier can be used at any weight range... does that mean only for the booster?

It may be several months before my FIL comes to visit again and he may not be too keen on buying another car seat for us because they don't even use car seats in his country, but if I ask, he may. I think the frontier would be my best option, right?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If I were asking someone else to buy me a seat, I'd be asking for the Graco Nautilus. It's half the price of the Frontier, and if the purchaser isn't all that keen on carseats anyhow, it might be a better choice.

Anyhow, if the car only allows LATCH to 40 pounds, then that's that. If you're LATCHing a booster (and not all boosters can be LATCHed), the weight doesn't matter, because the vehicle belt is what's actually restraining the child.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

The Frontier (when used as a booster) is a booster that allows it to be LATCHed in.

The benefit to that is, when the child is *not* in the booster, you don't have to buckle the booster down with the seat belt. There's no safety advantage when the child is using the booster.

So with many installations, you'd go from a LATCH install (for a <40-pound child), to a seat-belt install, to re-LATCHing when turning it into a booster. Kinda weird. ;-)


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I would definitely ask FIL for a Graco Nautilus. I have one for my DD and LOVE it. There is no reason to spend the extra $100 for the Frontier, especially when money is tight (and I hear you there, as DH has been on unempoyment for 4 months).

How old is your DD? I'm sorry if you have mentioned it before, but I'm very tired







If she is over 4 and is mature enough to sit properly in a booster, that would be totally acceptable. I like to see kids harnessed as long as possible, but sometimes it's not practical due to the financial situation.

I do have one quick question though: I thought you had a 3-in-1 seat, but then you mentioned that the RF limit was 30 pounds. Are you in Canada? If you are, the Nautilus is not available yet. In that case, if your FIL can't swing the $300 for the Frontier, I would ask him to buy a good dedicated booster provided she is mature enough to sit properly.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
The benefit to that is, when the child is *not* in the booster, you don't have to buckle the booster down with the seat belt. There's no safety advantage when the child is using the booster.

Eh, that's debatable. Truth is, we don't know how much safer (or not) a LATCHable booster is. At the very least, it's convenient and works as a pre-crash positioner, which other boosters do not.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
How old is your DD? I'm sorry if you have mentioned it before, but I'm very tired







If she is over 4 and is mature enough to sit properly in a booster, that would be totally acceptable. I like to see kids harnessed as long as possible, but sometimes it's not practical due to the financial situation.

I do have one quick question though: I thought you had a 3-in-1 seat, but then you mentioned that the RF limit was 30 pounds. Are you in Canada? If you are, the Nautilus is not available yet. In that case, if your FIL can't swing the $300 for the Frontier, I would ask him to buy a good dedicated booster provided she is mature enough to sit properly.


DD is 4 years old and between 39 and 40 lbs depending on the day, how much she's eaten, etc...

She uses a graco turbo booster in DH's car, but that's pretty rare. I also use it as my extra seat for car pooling to the zoo and trips like that. She loves being in a "big girl" seat and behaves perfectly in it. She has slept in it without any problems and actually looks more comfortable sleeping in it than the 5 point harness.

When she was 6 months old, she weighed 21lbs and was too tall (and too heavy) for her infant car seat. When my FIL came to visit, he asked if we needed anything and I got the message to him that we needed a car seat. He was well intentioned and got us a cosco summit, which goes up to 100lbs (as a booster). The only thing is, it's only FF. SO... even though we were broke, and we could not return the FF car seat, we had to go and buy a convertible seat. We bought the evenflow Vanguard. It's 5-30lbs rear facing and 20-40lbs FF. We used it RF until DD was 29lbs and 18 months old, then, when we turned her around, we installed the summit. Now DD#2 is in the vanguard RF (for as long as possible) and DD#1 is just about to outgrow the 5 point harness of the summit.

Like I said in a PP, I really appreciate all of the information I have learned from this forum. Last night when DH came home we had a long talk about it. He said to follow the instructions for our seat and if I still don't feel comfortable about it, he'd put a nautilus on a credit card.

I live in FL, why would you think I live in Canada?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Most American seats RF to 33 or 35 pounds; most Canadian seats RF to 30 pounds.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Most American seats RF to 33 or 35 pounds; most Canadian seats RF to 30 pounds.

Yeah but 4 years ago when she bought the seat all the Evenflo seats had 30 lb RF limits









OP, thank you for explaining







. I'm glad you had the chat with your DH. I would go ahead and pull the harness out of the seat, and see how the belt fits her in the booster. Alot of the combo seats position the lap belt too high on the tummy, so that is something to look at.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Yeah but 4 years ago when she bought the seat all the Evenflo seats had 30 lb RF limits









I know. I was trying to explain why you(? someone?) might have asked about Canada.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I know. I was trying to explain why you(? someone?) might have asked about Canada.

I see that now.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

OP, if you have a TurboBooster, I'd use that as the main booster now and the combo seat booster as the backup until you get a higher-weight harnessing seat.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 









OP, if you have a TurboBooster, I'd use that as the main booster now and the combo seat booster as the backup until you get a higher-weight harnessing seat.

I followed your advice. I took out the summit (that day) and cleaned it, I wiped the belts with a wet washcloth and hand washed the covers in the tub (it was super gross) and vacuumed out all the cheerios... I put in the graco, which DD was super happy about. Then DH went somewhere with us and was like, "I don't like this"

So on Saturday, I attended a breastfeeding luncheon and happened to sell some of my hand made items. I came home with a little over $200 and today we picked up the nautilus from walmart for $149.98. I could have paid a few $ less by buying it online, but we would have had to wait until 8/13 to get it and we wanted it ASAP.

I have all installed and everything with the seatbelt and it is secure! The only thing is, I have her shoulder belts just at her shoulder, I had then in the notch above, but could clearly see through the slots I now have them in so I switched it. DD is now complaining that it is too tight... Mind you, she's a little hypersensitive, the belts are not too tight...


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm so glad to hear that you got her in a Nautilus!









I know that the harness should be at or above the shoulders FF, but I'm sure a tech will chime in regarding whether or not it's ok to put the straps at the next slot.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

At the shoulder is okay, below them even a smidge is not. And yes, in some seats there's a pretty big gap between slots. It's safe, even if it looks a little uncomfortable.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

oh thats awesome news! congrats on selling some of your wares!









sometimes life just works out.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
At the shoulder is okay, below them even a smidge is not. And yes, in some seats there's a pretty big gap between slots. It's safe, even if it looks a little uncomfortable.

When I had it in the higher slot, I could still see through the lower slot when she was sitting in it, so it's right at her shoulders, maybe a smidge above, but definitely not below.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
oh thats awesome news! congrats on selling some of your wares!









sometimes life just works out.










Thanks.

I know, that's what I told my husband, it was like, "I need $150 to get a new car seat" and the universe said "OK, here ya go!!!"


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