# Help! Dd's hair has major rat's nest in hair. Any suggestions?



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Dd will be 11 y.o. in 2 weeks. She has long, thick hair. Through neglect it has become almost completely locked up. Under the top layer of hair there is basically one big dread lock.

I feel terrible. Dd has never tolerated my brushing her hair, even when she was a toddler with relatively thin hair. In the past 6 months, in the name of getting along, I haven't asked about her hair as much or pushed her to brush it or whatnot. When I noticed what was happening I urged her to take care of it before it got bad. So she'd get in the bath with the cream rinse and the wide-toothed comb and get some of the knots out. But when she brushes her hair she only brushes the top, never from underneath or from the nape of her neck.

Regardless, does anybody have any ideas about how to-- deal with this HUGH knot? I sat with her on my lap and sprayed with detangler and tried brushing a little from the bottom up. Some of it though, I just don't know how it's going to come out with out cutting it.


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## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

When my mom experienced this with my older sis (thick natural curly hair) she cut it off and wouldn's let sis grow it back out until _*she*_ was willing to take care of it herself. I amnot sure what the answer would be, but somebody is going to have to brush it after you attack the snarls with a wide toothed comb post serious conditioner or a Cholesterol treatment.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

What is this cholesterol you speak of, aside from fatty stuff that blocks arteries? Is that what hot oil treatment is? (Like Alberto Vo5)

The agreement is, she lets me comb through her hair a bit every day for a week and next Monday we'll see if we've made enough progress. If not enough progress then she'll have to get her hair cut. Which will be heartbreaking.

Do you remember how short your sister's hair was?


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Been There Done That and had to emerge from lurkdom to try to help. Poor little girl! The "dreadlock" is undoubtedly pulling on her scalp and has been making her uncomfortable for quite some time. My dd has similar hair: thick, fine, curly, long, gorgeous and extremely difficult to take care of. To add insult to injury, her little brother(!!!) had the E-Z wash 'n wear kind that a brush went right through, even when he wore it down to his shoulders.

Now, I never spent a lot of money on expensive conditioners, just cheap shampoo, because you'll need a LOT of it. I greased up dd's head with baby oil, salad oil, mayonaisse, crisco or whatever was handy and slippery and then I went through it with an afro pick before the wide toothed comb.

You worry about getting the tangles out first. The slippery stuff comes out over the course of several shampoos in rapid succession, with her hair drying in between. It's a weekend project, as I remember (we homeschool, so it wasn't such a big deal for us) but the good news is that her hair FEELS very soft and nicely conditioned once you wash out all the greasiness.

The same procedure works for getting out bubble gum. I still think it's worth it.


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## serenetabbie (Jan 13, 2002)

When this happened to me as a kid, my step mother did the same as afishwithabike mentioned... took me to the hair dressers and off it went! It was a Dorothy Hamill haircut (ohh, I am dating myself!) I was horrified, and learned to take care of my own hair.

I doubt I will do anything that drastic with my DD. When she gets a huge knot (and also when DS used to... he was a hair twirler), I would put in loads of conditioner and try to comb it out while they were in the bath. if that did not work, I would very gently towel dry it and then use detangling spray (1/4 conditioner to 3/4 water) and work at it while the kids watched Sesame Street. I would guess your DD is not into SS







... but perhaps something else would help distract her. There are deep conditioners, oils really, used for very thick hair, that might work better for your DD.


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

Good luck, Journeymom! I find it helps to split the hair into sections - even if it is just two - and comb each one separately. Then, when you can, split it again.

I have good luck working with my fingers rather than (or in addition to) a comb. Select a small knot near the bottom and separate out little bits, pulling individual hairs out of the knot if needed (although it's usually several hairs at a time).

If a really tight knot occurrs near the ends of the hair, I have been known to just snip it out, particularly if it's just a few hairs. I figure the hairs that remain in that little, tight, knot are probably damaged from it, and need to be trimmed.

My daughter has very long, med thickness, wavy hair, if that helps.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

I have really long hair and I can tell you, not all conditioners are made equal.
I can get about any knot out with enough pantene. But cheap stuff like white rain or suave, I cant comb through my hair after a shower even if it was 100% tangle free getting into the shower. I dont knwo what is the difference (wish I did because I am a frugal mom and HATE to buy anything but the cheapest if I can help it







)
That said, I would wonder if it is even worth that much frustration to get it out unless you feel really sure she is up for the responsibility of taking care of it.
As a halfway compromise, there are cute haircuts for thick hair which basically leaves the top half long and buzzes the bottom to make thick hair thinner and lighter weight but it still is long. If she happily brushes through the top half of her hair, maybe just keep the top half.

Good LUck


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## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

It is a synthetic fatty oil. You put it in her hair then put ona shower cap and heat it up for around 15 min. I personally use as an excuse to stand under a hot shower for 15 min. You can heat it any way you like. (hairdryer etc). After 15 min you just rinse it out. You can buy it at any salon supplier.


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

As a former "shorn short tender headed refused to brush or be brushed" girl...tips:

NO WATER! Water actually weakens hair and causes it to expand thus tightening the knots...water also isn't slippery so detangle when water is involved can be next to impossible...

as a previous poster said...brands DO matter! The difference between the brand name and the generic is usually the amount of panthenol or other softening/slippering agent vs. alcohol and water. Read the label--if alcohol or water (or any of the names alcohol masquerades as) is the in the first two ingredients move on--look at it this way you may pay more for 16oz but you'll use less each time...I'd try a product like "Frizz Ease" detangler and conditioner or paul mitchell...

call a beauty salon and see if they will do this for you or give you any tips on what to use--they are professionals--maybe having DD contribute some $$$ she has earned will be good incentive to take care of it...also maybe the salon can show her "how" to brush...

when you work on a knot hold the hair at the base of the scalp slack so that it isn't being pulled and then you can work really furiously (if need be) without hurting her or pulling...

Also try poking your well coated fingers into the knot and working on sections at a time...if it is too tight try a knitting needle to loosen a hole that your finger will fit into...the more you can coat the individual hairs with detangler the easier this will be...

And again, although this is self care...would you trust your dd to brush out a long haired pet well EVERY day? Maybe you could lend a hand and this could be special bonding time just for the two of you?

Hope that helps...good luck...my hair was cut so short I was mistaken for a boy on a NUMBER of occassions despite my pierced ears. I HATED that. I was proud to be a girl a wanted to be recognized correctly. My mom just didn't know how to help me because I was so tender headed...

Jenne


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Thank you, all of you, for wonderful advice! I'm going to see about some better conditioner for her. (I buy the cheap stuff since she uses so much.) I like the hot fatty acid idea and working with fingers. And brushing/combing dry hair as opposed to wet makes a lot of sense, and I don't know why I didn't think of that!

It is a bit of a relief to find some of you went through this personally.

And I had the Dorothy Hamill cut, too! 4th grade. I loved it!


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *afishwithabike*
When my mom experienced this with my older sis (thick natural curly hair) she cut it off and wouldn's let sis grow it back out until _*she*_ was willing to take care of it herself. I amnot sure what the answer would be, but somebody is going to have to brush it after you attack the snarls with a wide toothed comb post serious conditioner or a Cholesterol treatment.


OMG- I did this to dd too when she was about 7. I cried. She cried. I cut it too short but on the other hand she has NEVER let it go that badly. She is biracial and has soft ringlets that would go dreadlock in week if she didn't brush







She didn't want that but did not want to take the time to brush. She learned she sometimes can't have it both ways!


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

you could also take her to a salon, I knew someone who did this and they got it combed..after an hour and half! Don't know how much that would cost...


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## Minky (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh my gosh, you guys. Don't force her to cut her hair unless she wants to. I know grown women who are still angry with their parents because they were forced to have short hair as kids. If there's no way to redeem the "dreadlock" maybe you could suggest she have the lower layer thinned out by a beautician who knows what she's doing.

Alternately, you could go to a barber or salon with a large African-American clientele, even if you're not African-American, and see if you could get a gel or conditioner designed for thicker hair.


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## 3 Little Monkeys (Mar 13, 2003)

Patience, a wide tooth comb, conditioner and lots of tissue (for the tears) I did the same thing when I was about 12, but it happened when I was super sick and in bed for 2 weeks and didn't comb my hair. I had one huge mat at the base of my neck and it HURT! It took my mom probably 3 hours to work through it. Clip the "good" hair up so it's out of the way and work small sections of the knot a little at a time. Make sure to take breaks because your arm and dd's neck will get sore after awhile. Good luck, I hope you are able to get the knot out


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Love the suggestions above about working at it till it comes out I would never cut my dd's hair. What I would do tho if she couldnt do it force her to let me comb it. A good thing to get gum out of hair is Skin So Soft by avon so I would venture to guess that it will work on the tangle as it is very slippery.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

*sniff*

The thing is, this came about because of a bigger issue. I'm pretty lucky. Dd is an all around easy going girl. She's open to suggestion, she's reasonable, has a good temper (when she's not hormonally moody, which is just going to happen). But this issue with hair hygiene as well as keeping her room tidy are verboten with her. They are her control issues. When it's time to straighten up her room, which inevitably entails throwing away broken things, scraps of paper, clothes that don't fit, etc., she get emotional and cries and I back down. A few months back, same time I stopped saying anything to her about her hair I quit saying anything about her room. Because she goes from 0 to tears in no time flat. So now the floor of her room is covered, she never has clean clothes and can never find anything. That's sad and it's not healthy.

I told myself I was respecting her autonomy and was going to let her deal with whatever consequences came up. But the truth is, a good portion of it was that I didn't want to confront her anymore. And I hate that. It's not autonomy, it's neglect.

Well, I guess I need to wade back in there with her.


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## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

Quote:

I told myself I was respecting her autonomy and was going to let her deal with whatever consequences came up. But the truth is, a good portion of it was that I didn't want to confront her anymore. And I hate that. It's not autonomy, it's neglect.
I don't see it as neglect. I see it as a mom who was quietly hoping her DD would pick up the reigns and do it. You could have the cholesterol thing I suggested done at a salon with an intense conditioning session and turn it into mother daughter bonding day. You could have something done there as well and sit under the dryers together etc. I feel it would be a good way for you to keep an open bond and maybe you would learn more about each other. She is getting to an age where things do begon to change. Good luck whatever you decide.


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## 3 Little Monkeys (Mar 13, 2003)

It's not neglect mama - I'm in the EXACT same position with MY 11 yo dd. I got tired of fighting with her to keep her room picked up, heck, I'm tired of fighting with her for EVERYTHING, but some things I just can't drop. I have to fight with my dd about her hair as well, but since I've had my hair matted like that before, I keep after her and make sure it's brushed correctly. Hopefully once you are able to get the knot out, she will take more initiative and take better care of her hair - the bedroom on the other hand, well, just make sure there's enough clear space to close the door


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Your dd's hair sounds a lot like mine when I was younger (except mine was really fine). It would knot up all over and getting them unknotted was terrible. I've had that problem once since growing up, because I used baby shampoo. The only way I got it out was to use a really good conditioner (I dye my hair with Herbal Essences dye which included a tube of conditioner, so I used that stuff), work it in really good and let it sit for at least 5 minutes (longer with thicker hair) and then comb from the ends and work my way up (not combing upward, but to start with the last three inches, get it unknotted and then go up an inch or so and repeat).

Good luck!


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

www.longhaircommunity.com has good info, including conditioner info.

Good luck!


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## sagewinna (Nov 19, 2001)

I would suggest braiding it at night, after you work the tangle out. It will keep it from getting knotted up while she sleeps.


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sagewinna*
I would suggest braiding it at night, after you work the tangle out. It will keep it from getting knotted up while she sleeps.









:

My dd has worn her hair braided at night for years (since it was long enough to braid). She once went to bed without her hair "put away", and the next morning, as we were brushing it all out, she said "Don't ever let me do that again!"

Braids really do help with preventing tangles, both at night and during the day. I try to keep dd's hair in braids as much as I can, at night and during the day, too.

How's it coming? Are you seeing progress against the knots? You could make up a story (similar to the story of the Guidion [sp?] knot) about conquering the knots.


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## calicokatt (Mar 14, 2005)

*


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

JourneyMom just wanted to check in and see how goes things today? Any updates on the hair/room? Hope things are fine.

Jenne


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