# Walmrt Dispute* Need example*



## Zaxmama (Mar 2, 2004)

OK so my DH and I are having a conversation about Wal*mart..and he is curious as to why everybody hates them so much.. I know what is wrong with them but I need help and examples to articulate just how bad it is.
This is a civil discussion.. please don't bash my DH he is just curious, as am I.
I trust in you wise ladies to help me explain this.. thanks in advance.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

i personally don't have a problem with wal-mart so i'll be







: and







: and thinking about the arguments...


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## Ligmom (Nov 24, 2001)

I am not well-educated in the Walmart debate, but my reason for disliking Walmart is that they drive the local shops out of business. They come in and undercut everyone else's price and eventually competitors just can't keep up.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't support them because they undermine local businesses and do their best to run them into the ground. They pay many of their workers less than a living wage, so that many of their workers (I think I read 40%?) receive some form of government assistance, and yet the Walton family is worth well over several BILLION dollars. That means that essentially we, as taxpayers, pay to support their business profits.


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

Watch-"Store Wars-When Walmart Comes to Town" and visit www.walmartmovie.com and see if there is a free screening in your area of this new documentary.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Five members of the Walton family are in the top 10 richest people in America. They are worth, collectively, $100 BILLION dollars. Most of their employees do not receive any benefits (something like 80%). They purposely don't allow many people to work full time so they don't have to pay benefits. They have been sued by the Department of Labor at least five times for things like altering pay records if an employee worked over time. They would go back and delete it so they didn't have to pay it. They were fined by the DOL for locking their employees in at night and not allowing them leave, even if they were sick. There are currently 90,000 women suing Walmart in a class action suit alleging gender discrimination in the workplace. One study in CA said that Walmart's labor practices costs the state of CA $86 million per year. That is just the state of CA. (The $86 million is because of the public benefits that Walmart employees are entitled to as low wage workers with no benefits.) Here's the study: http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/lowwage/walmart.pdf. Walmart purposely locates outside the city limits to avoid paying municipal taxes.

I could go on for pages and pages. Walmart is Satan. They are not passing go, not collecting $200, just heading straight for hell.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Besides all that - just the act of WALKING AROUND in WallyLand makes me ill...it's always so darned...blech in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com

Pretty much everything you'd ever want to (or rather; not want to







) know about Walmart.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

Not only do they run mom and pop shops into the ground, they also demand lower prices from their "suppliers" who in turn end up laying off workers, cutting benefits, and eventually relocating out of the country. Living in an area where manufacturing is the major employer, this MAJORLY sucks...unemployment anyone? Oh? I can go work at Walmart? For $9 an hour? Part time? No benefits? They don't pay their workers a living wage, and have been known to hand out applications for assistance to their workers. Sad.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

To quote from the link andrea provided:

Quote:

As of the printing of their 2005 Annual Report, Wal-Mart faced 44 wage and hour lawsuits. Major law-suits have either been won or are working their way through the legal process in states such as California, Indiana, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, and Washington. [Wal-Mart Annual Report 2005]
Wal-Mart was recently ordered by courts to pay up to 120 workers in Gallup, New Mexico and 400 workers in 27 stores in Oregon for violating wage and hour laws.
In 2002, statisticians estimated Wal-Mart shortchanged its Texas workers $150 million over four years by regularly not paying them for working through their 15-minute breaks. [Sources include Associated Press, "Federal Jury Finds Wal-Mart Guilty in Overtime Pay Case," Chicago Tribune, Business 3, 12/20/03 and Steven Greenhouse, "Suits Say Wal-Mart Forces Workers to Toil Off the Clock," New York Times, A1, 6/25/02)]

Quote:

Despite $10 billion in profits, President and CEO Lee Scott said, "In some of our states, the public program may actually be a better value - with relatively high income limits to qualify, and low premiums." (Transcript Lee Scott Speech 4/5/05)


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

From the same link:

Quote:

The estimated total amount of federal assistance for which Wal-Mart employees were eligible in 2004 was $2.5 billion. ["Harper's Index," Harper's Magazine, Vol. 310, No. 1858, 3/2005]
One 200-employee Wal-Mart store may cost federal taxpayers $420,750 per year. This cost comes from the following, on average:
$36,000 a year for free and reduced lunches for just 50 qualifying Wal-Mart families.
$42,000 a year for low-income housing assistance.
$125,000 a year for federal tax credits and deductions for low-income families.
$100,000 a year for the additional expenses for programs for students.
$108,000 a year for the additional federal health care costs of moving into state children's health insurance programs (S-CHIP)
$9,750 a year for the additional costs for low income energy assistance.
[THE HIDDEN PRICE WE ALL PAY FOR WAL-MART, A REPORT BY THE DEMOCRATIC STAFF OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE, 2/16/04]


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## Zaxmama (Mar 2, 2004)

OK I see your points and they are valid, he is now questioning why walmart, aren't Target, and Costco and other big name chain store pushing the little guy out.. also.. he also says if its so bad to work there why not work somewhere else..if walmart wasn't around alot of people would not have jobs. again..he wants to learn..he is not trying to attack anyone he wants to learn more about this..btw I went to www.wakeupwalmart.com .. but you have to sign up to read things..which I may do later..

FTR he also says he understand that Walmart is not the Best of course but people want low prices and this is the price it seems we all end up paying.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369*
I don't support them because they undermine local businesses and do their best to run them into the ground. They pay many of their workers less than a living wage, so that many of their workers (I think I read 40%?) receive some form of government assistance, and yet the Walton family is worth well over several BILLION dollars. That means that essentially we, as taxpayers, pay to support their business profits.

i have a few thoughts about this line of argument. wal-mart, like most other business in the united states, exists to make money. their prime objective isn't to run other businesses into the ground, per se. it is to create wealth for themselves. wal-mart started with one store in a small town in arkansas and is now a multi-billion dollar cooperation. so what? that's the way capitalism works. if you gave the mom and pop store owners a questionnaire and asked them what their ultimate goal would be, most would tell you (in some form) to be successful(financially that is) with their business. businesses are generally not charities (paul newman's company is the prominent exception). they exist to make money. some become extremely rich doing what they do, and others don't. should the people who succeed feel bad about that? who are we to judge how much success is too much?

wal-mart creates thousands of jobs, saves consumers (mostly poor people like me) $100 billion per year!! and contributes significantly to our economy, infra-structure and governmental endeavors through the taxes they pay.

additionally, people who work at wal-mart work there for a reason. nobody woke them up one morning and forced them into a blue "how may i help you" vest. most of these very good, hard working folk are un- or undereducated and are very happy to have a job, presumably the best job they could find. if it was not the best job they could find, that is not wal-mart's fault. and i hear you about _40%? receive some form of government assistance_ but have you considered how much higher that number would be without wal-mart and how much more money tax-payers would have to pay to subsidize these people's income?

i wondered a while back when anti-trust lawsuits were filed against microsoft, what are we telling these cooperations? we love you if you make money, conform to our capitalist society, but if you become too good at it, we'll fine you and break up your company.

another thing that bothers me is the argument that the waltons don't deserve the wealth they inherited. their dad was very smart. he was able to create a successful business for himself, from a mom-and-pop store. who, if not his kids, deserve this wealth?

The above is my opinion and should be taken as such...thanks!


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

You don't have to sign up at that site, you just click "skip to homepage".

Target and Costco do not conduct business in the same manner as Wal-mart. Keep reading. It's not JUST about the little guy. It's about a corporate culture of greed and corruption. Walmart almost always locates in tiny little towns so they become the only game in town. People don't have much choice about where to shop or where to work.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
i have a few thoughts about this line of argument. wal-mart, like most other business in the united states, exists to make money. their prime objective isn't to run other businesses into the ground, per se. it is to create wealth for themselves. wal-mart started with one store in a small town in arkansas and is now a multi-billion dollar cooperation. so what? that's the way capitalism works. if you gave the mom and pop store owners a questionnaire and asked them what their ultimate goal would be, most would tell you (in some form) to be to succeed (financially that is) with their business. businesses are generally not charities (paul newman's company is the prominent exception). they exist to make money. some become extremely rich doing what they do, and others don't. should the people who succeed feel bad about that? who are we to judge how much success is too much?

wal-mart creates thousands of jobs, saves consumers (mostly poor people like me) $100 billion per year!! and contributes significantly to our economy, infra-structure and governmental endeavors through the taxes they pay.

additionally, people who work at wal-mart work there for a reason. nobody woke them up one morning and forced them into a blue "how may i help you" vest. most of these very good, hard working folk are un- or undereducated and are very happy to have a job, presumably the best job they could find. if it was not the best job they could find, that is not wal-mart's fault. and i hear you about _40%? receive some form of government assistance_ but have you considered how much higher that number would be without wal-mart and how much more money tax-payers would have to pay to subsidize these people's income?

i wondered a while back when anti-trust lawsuits were filed against microsoft, what are we telling these cooperations? we love you if you make money, conform to our capitalist society, but if you become too good at it, we'll fine you and break up your company.

another thing that bothers me is the argument that the waltons don't deserve the wealth they inherited. their dad was very smart. he was able to create a successful business for himself, from a mom-and-pop store. who, if not his kids, deserve this wealth?

The above is my opinion and should be taken as such...thanks!

Actually, each Walmart store COSTS *YOU*, the taxpayer, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.


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## Zaxmama (Mar 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
i have a few thoughts about this line of argument. wal-mart, like most other business in the united states, exists to make money. their prime objective isn't to run other businesses into the ground, per se. it is to create wealth for themselves. wal-mart started with one store in a small town in arkansas and is now a multi-billion dollar cooperation. so what? that's the way capitalism works. if you gave the mom and pop store owners a questionnaire and asked them what their ultimate goal would be, most would tell you (in some form) to be successful(financially that is) with their business. businesses are generally not charities (paul newman's company is the prominent exception). they exist to make money. some become extremely rich doing what they do, and others don't. should the people who succeed feel bad about that? who are we to judge how much success is too much?

wal-mart creates thousands of jobs, saves consumers (mostly poor people like me) $100 billion per year!! and contributes significantly to our economy, infra-structure and governmental endeavors through the taxes they pay.

additionally, people who work at wal-mart work there for a reason. nobody woke them up one morning and forced them into a blue "how may i help you" vest. most of these very good, hard working folk are un- or undereducated and are very happy to have a job, presumably the best job they could find. if it was not the best job they could find, that is not wal-mart's fault. and i hear you about _40%? receive some form of government assistance_ but have you considered how much higher that number would be without wal-mart and how much more money tax-payers would have to pay to subsidize these people's income?

i wondered a while back when anti-trust lawsuits were filed against microsoft, what are we telling these cooperations? we love you if you make money, conform to our capitalist society, but if you become too good at it, we'll fine you and break up your company.

another thing that bothers me is the argument that the waltons don't deserve the wealth they inherited. their dad was very smart. he was able to create a successful business for himself, from a mom-and-pop store. who, if not his kids, deserve this wealth?

The above is my opinion and should be taken as such...thanks!

WOw Mama you said that much better then he could have....even with me typing..( couldn't have said it that well either)

I am not sure if he is trying to justify the fact that we shop there or what but its nice to have an intelligent conversation about this with my Husband.. I appreciate your input ladies..







all of the input.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

OK, well that settle that. Money is more important than people!


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
Actually, each Walmart store COSTS *YOU*, the taxpayer, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.


i'm not a statistician, but i simply wonder how a person WITH a job can cost me MORE as a taxpayer, than a person WITHOUT a job (assuming that working at wal-mart is the best or the only job they could find, see my earlier post).

the underlying assumption is that the people who work at wal-mart somehow got suckered into those jobs. why don't these wal-mart employees just quit and work for a company that offers them higher wages and better benefits? maybe it's because for them, their choice is between being unemployed and working at wal-mart.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
OK, well that settle that. Money is more important than people!


i guess america is what it is. it's the way our economy works...it's based on incentives (usually monetary).


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
i'm not a statistician, but i simply wonder how a person WITH a job can cost me MORE as a taxpayer, than a person WITHOUT a job (assuming that working at wal-mart is the best or the only job they could find, see my earlier post).

the underlying assumption is that the people who work at wal-mart somehow got suckered into those jobs. why don't these wal-mart employees just quit and work for a company that offers them higher wages and better benefits? maybe it's because for them, their choice is between being unemployed and working at wal-mart.

No, it's because it's quite difficult to exist in this country earning an income that is below the poverty line. Those people use public goods and services that you, the taxpayer, are paying for. And I'm just talking federal benefits, not state benefits. Things like Section 8, free and reduced price lunches, Head Start programs, food stamps, Medicaid, and the like.

At the state level, people would be eligible for welfare, etc.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
i guess america is what it is. it's the way our economy works...it's based on incentives (usually monetary).

And the way Walmart does business is OK with you?


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

but if wal-mart was banned wouldn't it be even more difficult for ex-wal-mart employees to make ends meet? hence, they would have to rely more heavily, if not completely, on public goods and services?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
i'm not a statistician, but i simply wonder how a person WITH a job can cost me MORE as a taxpayer, than a person WITHOUT a job (assuming that working at wal-mart is the best or the only job they could find, see my earlier post).

the underlying assumption is that the people who work at wal-mart somehow got suckered into those jobs. why don't these wal-mart employees just quit and work for a company that offers them higher wages and better benefits? maybe it's because for them, their choice is between being unemployed and working at wal-mart.

Ah, but you see, if Walmart didn't come in and force the smaller businesses to close, those people would *have* choices of retail employers other than Walmart. If Walmart didn't force suppliers to cut costs to sell to Walmart, then the people wouldn't have been laid off from their factory work.

If the company causes a problem, they have to do more than a half-ass job to get credit for fixing the problem.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Who is saying Walmart should be banned? I'm saying Walmart should treat its employees better. Maybe stop pocketing $100 billion (yes, $100 billion) and start paying for health care? Maybe up the pay a few dollars an hour so the average employee can afford to live without government benefits? Maybe stop violating federal labor laws? Would that kill them?


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
And the way Walmart does business is OK with you?


well, i'm not saying that i am or am not OK with the way walmart does business. but if you look at the larger picture, you have to wonder about a couple of things. aren't the low wages they pay to workers in third world countries better than no wages? the suppliers that get strong armed into lowering their prices, don't they profit somehow from their association with wal-mart? i heard that they go to bentonville in droves to get their product into wal-mart stores. if they didn't like how they were being treated by walmart, why aren't they content with just selling at safeway, or at the local mom and pop store?

honestly, just wondering...from an incentives perspective, wal-mart seems to be working out for many different groups of people.

think of yourself as a business owner. could you force people into doing the stuff that wal-mart is accused of doing? it seems to me that the business relationships wal-mart has with people are working out on both sides.

btw, childlabor is always wrong, walmart or not....


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh shoot, I forgot to hit the quote button. (nak) Anyway, this is to address "who works at Wal-Mart?"

-I had a number of clients through DMR be invited to work there (at special pay -- $2-$4/hour)
-a friend in his mid-20s picked up a job there to hang on to his apartment when he couldn't find a job in his field during the recession (he didn't make enough and ended up moving back home anyway)
-my SIL has considered it because she doesn't have a GED or any work history but has a child to support if she and her dp split, and WalMart will tend to hire "unhireables" -- and pay them a commensurately lower hourly wage than someone with experience

These are just some snapshots based on my own circle of acquaintances. I agree that businesses are there to make money, but I also feel that they're beholden to a certain level of civic responsibility and business ethics, and that's where WalMart crosses the line, imo. You can make an honest living -- and a profit -- without employing practices that you *know* put the screws to so many other people.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
well, i'm not saying that i am or am not OK with the way walmart does business. but if you look at the larger picture, you have to wonder about a couple of things. aren't the low wages they pay to workers in third world countries better than no wages? the suppliers that get strong armed into lowering their prices, don't they profit somehow from their association with wal-mart? i heard that they go to bentonville in droves to get their product into wal-mart stores. if they didn't like how they were being treated by walmart, why aren't they content with just selling at safeway, or at the local mom and pop store?

.

It's not "The money is better than nothing." It's "Walmart has the ability to treat its employees better and *chooses* not to."


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I have a good friend whose DH works for Walmart in Arkansas at the corporate level. He has worked there for about 12 years, has an MBA, always been a good employee. He wanted to change jobs about two years ago, find something that didn't require him to travel so much, as his wife was expecting their second child. Couldn't get an interview. Why? Because all of the vendors who work with Walmart must sign a contract saying they will not hire Walmart employees. In order for him to change jobs, he would have to quit Walmart altogether and be without a job and THEN begin his job search. That's not a position he can be in with a stay at home wife and two kids.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
It's not "The money is better than nothing." It's "Walmart has the ability to treat its employees better and *chooses* not to."

no, you're completely right about that...but wal-mart isn't the only one who has a choice! each and every person that comes into contact with wal-mart has a choice...and they seem to be choosing wal-mart over, and over and over again...


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## mammabear (Oct 21, 2002)

The way I see it is that people who work for walmart work there simply because it's a job.

I'm wondering if with all the controversy that's going on maybe Walmart will wake up and make some major changes.

It's a selfish thing that they are doing- pocketing the money (getting disguatingliy rich) instead of taking care of their employees who work day in and day out and can barely get by.

I'm also wondering if there is a way possible to run Walmart in the ground. It's ahrd to not shop there at this point when all the mom and pop stores are disappearing and Walmart happens to be the only place to purchase the things we need to buy.

I've been trying to shop online lately- I get the basics from an online hub. I have yet to find out if it's just another Walmart though.

Yes, and what about others like Target or Costco. Maybe they treat their employees better?


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
no, you're completely right about that...but wal-mart isn't the only one who has a choice! each and every person that comes into contact with wal-mart has a choice...and they seem to be choosing wal-mart over, and over and over again...

Right. And the people who shop there are wrong. Walmart will not change until people start voting with their pocketbooks.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
Right. And the people who shop there are wrong. Walmart will not change until people start voting with their pocketbooks.


and this is where the buck stops (so to speak). in order to boycott wal-mart to get them to change, you would be asking people who live from paycheck to paycheck and have their grandmother's watch in a pawnstore to shop elsewhere and spend a lot more money.

that's not going to happen, i'm afraid.


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## <<<Scarlet>>> (May 19, 2005)

they just opened a distrabution center in my town and my dh got a job there. After a few weeks something there (i totally forget what machine it was) ran over his foot. My brother (also a former employee at the D.C.) said that the same machine has narrowly missed his foot also....
A few days later my dh was fired. layed off, whatever. Didnt give a reason, he was in his probationary period so no explaination....
My brother said that would happen as soon as dh came home that day, he said dh was a liability because he had an accident. brother said that everyone who had accidents were fired....doesnt seem right,or legal... but whatever

I like going to one store to get everything....
but i dont anymore, target, winn-dixie, publix, or "scratch-n-dent" as my mother calls it. and goodwill. Anywhere but walmart...
I feel like an animal shopping there, overcrowded(people and merchandice)
and when I go to target it's just so much nicer to shop. AND i've found better merchandice and better selection on somethings there.

about 5 years ago I lived in a small town in florida, they had a piggly wiggly and a winn-dixie, walmart opened and w.d. was closed within a year.
And I'm sure walmart has something to do with W. D. going bankrupt!


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

A company that employs 1 % of the work force in the U.S.( just to give you a picture of their size) acts unethical abusing their monopol position if they don't provide health care, discriminate, drive small shops out of business, pressures suppliers, controls the life of their employes on a personal basis....and the list goes on. Yes, all this is wrong for small retailers,too, but I can't boycott everyone ( I need to live,too!) and I choose the one where any decision they make has the greatest impact.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
but if wal-mart was banned wouldn't it be even more difficult for ex-wal-mart employees to make ends meet? hence, they would have to rely more heavily, if not completely, on public goods and services?

Ahhh....no.

If wal-mart got severe public pressure they'd change their policies, they're not gonna just shut down the company.


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## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
and this is where the buck stops (so to speak). in order to boycott wal-mart to get them to change, you would be asking people who live from paycheck to paycheck and have their grandmother's watch in a pawnstore to shop elsewhere and spend a lot more money.

that's not going to happen, i'm afraid.

No, you're asking them to handle their money responsibly. Shopping at WalMart *is* irresponsible when you know about their poor business practices.

What did we do before WalMart? We lived with less cheap plastic crap shipped here from China and Pakistan. We reused, recycled, and made do. We shopped at thrift stores. We repaired items instead of replacing them.

As someone pointed out, "low prices come at a high cost" and that means you are already subsidizing the richest people in America. Ya really want to do that? I don't.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starlein26*
and this is where the buck stops (so to speak). in order to boycott wal-mart to get them to change, you would be asking people who live from paycheck to paycheck and have their grandmother's watch in a pawnstore to shop elsewhere and spend a lot more money.

that's not going to happen, i'm afraid.

Here you have countered your own argument regarding people CHOOSING to work or shop at Wal Mart. In small communities, Wal Mart has often become the ONLY place to shop, and they have done this by starting out so cheap that everyone flocks there in an attempt to save money. Then, when they have killed their competition and have made themselves some kind of anchor in the community by employing all those people who used to work at mom and pop places, they can charge whatever they please. Their customer base and their employees are now captive.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_mojo*
Here you have countered your own argument regarding people CHOOSING to work or shop at Wal Mart. In small communities, Wal Mart has often become the ONLY place to shop, and they have done this by starting out so cheap that everyone flocks there in an attempt to save money. Then, when they have killed their competition and have made themselves some kind of anchor in the community by employing all those people who used to work at mom and pop places, they can charge whatever they please. Their customer base and their employees are now captive.

where does that happen?


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

My family lives in a town in Texas. They used to shop at a variety of little stores in their town and in the two neighboring towns. Then, when I was in elem school I would guess, so 25? years ago, a Wal Mart opened between two close tons. First, in my memory, the town square and local five and dime went down. It became impossible to buy clothes or drug store type stuff in the town, because those businesses were first to go. I'm sure it was happening in the nieghboring towms, as well, I was just not aware of it.

At this point, the square has been "revitalized", which means it has touristy stores and restaurants, not anything useful to locals. And it has happened similarly in the town closest to where the Wal Mart opened. However, with the advent of the Wal Mart grocery stuff, even more local businesses are going down. The butcher is gone, one local grocery is gone, the other is struggling. I'm sure there are more things that I don't even see as I do not actually live in that town. AND, let me point out that my family used to be able to do 95% of their shopping within a 5 mile radius of their home. Now, they MUST drive at least 20 minutes to do anything beyond food shopping. And, since they are not in the finest financial situation, they end up driving that 20 minutes for their grocery shopping as well.


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## celrae (May 3, 2005)

This is an interesting link- It talks about how Wal-Mart adds salt water to it's meat to increase weight so that it they can make money and maintain their low price.







:

http://feedlot.blogspot.com/2005/10/...ets-corny.html


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## KarenEMT (Aug 10, 2002)

I like this link: www.responsibleshopper.org - many different companies are listed on there.

I am actively involved in trying to keep a Wal-Mart SuperCenter from building in the next township over - my town would get all of the traffic/pollution but absolutely none of the tax dollars.

Zaxmama, the Slate Belt Concerned Citizens will hopefully be having a screening of the new Wal-Mart movie down here in Wind Gap. I will let you know when they set a date.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

I remember the story about the Walmart in Gatineau Quebec.

They went on Strike, trying to form a union and everything *Quebec is big about unions, hell even the sex trade workers have a union!* And what did walmart do? Instead of succumbing to the pressure to form a union, they SHUT THE STORE DOWN.

That rubbed me the wrong way.

They said that any store that tries that stunt again will get closed down. And of course, the community can't afford to lose all the jobs that walmart "created" *umm STOLE* so they dont say a word and suffer in silence...

At least here in Canada the employees dont have to pay anything for healthcare so that's one less worry, but the wages are still far from livable..in some high rent areas, alot of Walmart employees are "hidden Homeless" because some municipalities *In some provinces it's the city that runs the aid programme, in some provinces it's the province itself it varies* are like "Well you got a job you dont get assistance" no matter how paltry the wages are. They diliberately pay min wage *which varies from $5.00/hr to a whopping $7 depending on what province the store is set up in*

Hell when I was broker than broke and pregnant I STILL didn't apply at Walmart. Why? Because I knew they treated their employees like dog crap and I didn't feel like possibly miscarrying because of being made to lift more than I should.


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## Zaxmama (Mar 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KarenEMT*
Zaxmama, the Slate Belt Concerned Citizens will hopefully be having a screening of the new Wal-Mart movie down here in Wind Gap. I will let you know when they set a date.

Thanks I would love to take DH to see that..


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_mojo*
My family lives in a town in Texas. They used to shop at a variety of little stores in their town and in the two neighboring towns. Then, when I was in elem school I would guess, so 25? years ago, a Wal Mart opened between two close tons. First, in my memory, the town square and local five and dime went down. It became impossible to buy clothes or drug store type stuff in the town, because those businesses were first to go. I'm sure it was happening in the nieghboring towms, as well, I was just not aware of it.

At this point, the square has been "revitalized", which means it has touristy stores and restaurants, not anything useful to locals. And it has happened similarly in the town closest to where the Wal Mart opened. However, with the advent of the Wal Mart grocery stuff, even more local businesses are going down. The butcher is gone, one local grocery is gone, the other is struggling. I'm sure there are more things that I don't even see as I do not actually live in that town. AND, let me point out that my family used to be able to do 95% of their shopping within a 5 mile radius of their home. Now, they MUST drive at least 20 minutes to do anything beyond food shopping. And, since they are not in the finest financial situation, they end up driving that 20 minutes for their grocery shopping as well.

i was mostly referring to when you said: _they can charge whatever they please. Their customer base and their employees are now captive._ i was wondering where that happened? what town? how has their charging changed?


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Wal-Mart undercutting competition and then increasing prices (hell, any monopolistic business doing so) is well documented. We're not talking about toilet paper was $1 and now its $25, we're talking, toilet paper was $1, at the store Wal-Mart replaced it had been $1.07 and now that there is no store within 10 miles it just happens to be $1.10 even though Wal-Mart's costs have not changed.

Why do I consider Wal-Mart worse than Target or Costco?

First, women's issues. ""&#8230;women made up over 60% of Wal-Mart's hourly workers, but just 33% of management." (Selling Women Short, by Liza Featherstone). Target has a much higher percentage of women in managerial roles.

Secondly, business practices. Wal-Mart has a history of buying large amounts of goods from a manufacturer and then, when they have become virtually their only customer (all the manufacturers business goes through them) pulling the rug out (and moving to Chinese imports instead).

Thirdly, employee relations. The vast majority of Costco employees are covered with a variety of benifits. Wal-Mart avoids actually paying for benifits in numerous shocking ways (who can forget them whining about benifits costing 12% of PROFFIT in the recent memo http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/business/26walmart.pdf#search='walmart%20memo'). Instead of encouraging health care participation they encourage Medicaid. They have committed a number of labor violations (outside of sexism, the refusal to pay overtime, locking in workers during the night, etc...).

I do not have my books with me right now, but it has been found that Wal-Mart coming into a community actually *removes* jobs because of their productivity. If you have a small grocery store, a clothing store, a gardening store, a bakery... and you replace them with one Wal-Mart, of course many jobs are eliminated.

Additionally, I consider Wal-Mart to support the "more is better" mindset that I try to avoid. For example, the movie Madagascar is coming out on DVD. Only at Wal-Mart can you get the special two DVD package with an esclusive *free* Penguin DVD. When I saw the ad I was actually kinda bummed--- I knew my kids would enjoy the Penguin movie, but I'm not going there to get it! Then I realized that everyone else was also offering the free DVD, they just weren't putting it in another box! Gotta hand it to Wal-Mart--- they've made it seem great that you are getting an extra box and all the packaging









I do think you can go to Wal-Mart and get stuff cheaper than other stores. In fact, there are people who HATE Wal-Mart so go and only buy their loss leaders. But most people don't actually do that. They get the cheaper stuff and a whole bunch of extra crap they wouldn't have usually gotten. So many people can actually save money, or break even, simply by avoiding Wal-Mart (though Target and Costco have much of the same problems). There are people that it does just seem impossible for them to effectively boycott Wal-Mart. But I am not one of them, so I do. Pure and simple.


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## darkangel090260 (Oct 31, 2005)

From a x wal mart employe

The mess with hours so you dont get 40 hours. If you ask for a day off you better be dead or close to it. You work 8 hours with out a brake to get a brake you have to beg and plead even just to go to restroom it takes a mager yelling match with a CSM.

Customer treat you like drit as well they yell at you the spite on you the throw stuff at you and you cant say a word.

Ohh and if they find out your part of a union they will fire you. I was a member of a union throw macys when i worked there and when wall mart found out i was fired that day.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Why the Seventh Generation company paired with Target instead of Wal Mart

http://www.seventhgeneration.com/sit...MHF&b=913129#1

Quote:

much of the research we've seen shows that there are, in effect, huge government subsidies (to the tune of about $1.5 billion annually) going to finance health care and provide food stamps and housing for Wal-Mart employees who can't afford even basic necessities on their salaries. To me, this is a terrible business model-a company that is generating over 10 billion dollars in annual profits is essentially using public funds to subsidize its labor costs! We wind up subsidizing Wal-Mart with our tax dollars for the benefit of their shareholders. That's unconscionable.
I think it's sick that the Walton family members are 5 of the 10 wealthiest Americans, while their employees are so poor that they can't afford health insurance or other basic necessities of life. The Waltons could pay these people a decent wage and still be fabulously wealthy. They are greedy to the point of it being evil. Being rich is wonderful, but not if you hurt other people's health and well being in the process!


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Walmart also engages in censorship. If management "disapproves" of the content of music, books, or videos (pre-release) they will refuse to carry them--artsits and writers, under pressure from their own agents and managers, are then forced to censor their work b/c their companies won't represent them if they can't sell at Walmart (which is, after all, the nation's biggest retailer). Much of this is indirect pressure, but it still exists--i.e., the producers of an album will tailor their product to "Walmart appropriate standards" w/o actually being threatened by the company. I once had a whole list of books and music that Walmart has banned (and we're not talking really explicit or sexual stuff), but not sure where I found it.

I find their practices reprehensible. Short-changing employees hours so they don't have to pay benefits. Locking employees in at night, and refusing to let them leave, even in cases of emergencies. Union busting (see darkangel's post--you don't actually even have to be interested in a union for Walmart; just have EVER belonged to one and you're fired). Buying the bulk of their products from companies in places like China, where labor practices are very questionable (at least for the cut-rate goods that Walmart buys).

I recommend Barbara Ehrenreich's chapter on working at Walmart in Nickel and Dimed. There was a really poignant moment--employees are required to buy their own uniforms, and she was unable to afford even the deeply discounted sale pants AT Walmart.

As for people shopping elsewhere...for many of us, we do have that choice. And I would sooner pay more than set FOOT in a Walmart. But in small communities, where Walmart has forced out local businesses, people don't have other options. They are forced to keep shopping at Walmart b/c there just isn't any other place left.


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## Greenie (Sep 27, 2005)

It sucks. I feel like Wal-Mart should have the decency to offer something to a community. They move in, they kill the competition, then they abuse the people who make them rich.







:

I've lived both in small towns (where it's the only option) and big cities (where you can avoid it) and it seems like people just want the conveinence. Even though they can shop at a store where it's so much nicer, and the product is a higher quality (Target, CostCo) they shop out of conveinence. The Sam's Clubs are all right next to Wal-Mart in San Antonio.

I registered at Target instead of Wal-Mart for all of the reasons listed in this post. Most people are too ignorant to care about these issues. They just don't want to look past the facade.. They'd much rather go to Wal-Mart, eat at McDonalds, and shop till they drop in one stop. I still got stuff from Wal-MArt at my baby shower (which I don't like, but it wasn't my money) so I bought some groceries and cat food, and a few things for Christmas.

I try not to support them, and I shop at my local grocery stores and Target, and smaller businesses every chance I get. And, when possible, I let others know why I don't shop there. If they don't care about the issues, then that's up to them. I can't force them. It just stinks that so many support such a terrible corporation just because it's a little easier. In the city, there's no reason to shop there.

In the small towns, though,I understand why it's so hard. There's no where else to shop, or the local places close so early.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alkenny*
Not only do they run mom and pop shops into the ground, they also demand lower prices from their "suppliers" who in turn end up laying off workers, cutting benefits, and eventually relocating out of the country. Living in an area where manufacturing is the major employer, this MAJORLY sucks...unemployment anyone? Oh? I can go work at Walmart? For $9 an hour? Part time? No benefits? They don't pay their workers a living wage, and have been known to hand out applications for assistance to their workers. Sad.









$9!!! In my county (probably the entire state of FL) that is not to shabby of a pay







: , although not a living wage, usually people get paid $6 - $7.50 for those types of jobs where I live...


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

that's the way capitalism works.
No it isn't. Heavy subsidy from the government is how the Soviet Union "worked". Make no mistake, having most of the workers NEED assistance from the government is a subsidy to the business. I don't know of any other companies that operate that way.

Walmart employees donate to a fund to help other employees. Collectively these people, all too many UNDER the poverty line for all that they have a job, gave $5 million to the fund. The Waltons gave $6000, between the 5 of them.


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

I for the life of me cannot understand the appeal of WalMart. I went in one once to see what all the talk was about and it was the dirtiest, saddest place I'd ever been. It felt like purgatory, it took me forever to find what I was looking for and forever to figure out how to get out of the place. The line to pay was the worst. If Edward Hopper were alive today, a Wal-Mart check out line would make a fine subject for him.


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## swtladyfare (Jul 30, 2005)

i have to say, my friends who work at wal-mart are paid and treated better than any other entry level job here in orlando excluding UPS and thet's a very physical job. People in my income bracket (the folks that i personally know) jump at the oppertunity to be hired! $9 an hour is a godsend here! I've never been able to pull in higher then $6.50 and I've worked at sears, petco and various fast-food hell-holes. Small businesses don't often hire, and when they do...it's often family. AND walmart does have benifits that part time employees can purchase, at least they do here in orlando. The same thing just can't be said about most comparable jobs. Think about it, at only 20 hrs a week that's almost $10,000 a year! It would be WONDERFUL if we could make that much!!!

My very pregnate friend has NEVER been asked to over extend herself at walmart and they're being very friendly with her time off, unlike sears which basicly said "We don't have to give you a single day off for your baby because your part time but we'll GENEROUSLY give you 2 weeks"

EVERY job I've worked made me buy some part of my uniform. Sears gave me a terrible evaluation because my pants were too short, even though they only sold capris-style matt. pants.


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## MommaMoo (Nov 16, 2005)

About 10 years ago, I was a Walmart employee. I managed to stick it out for 6 months. I was only 18 and naive, so when I was sexually harassed by both the general manager and assistant manager, encouraged to work off the clock several hours every week, not given an appropriate raise because I was sick ONE day, I just didn't realize that all of these things were problems, and didn't put them together. I just put them out of my mind. Yes, that was stupid of me, but I was new to the workforce, and eager to make a good impression on my employers. Hell, I was HAPPY to work for them for free.







But I didn't NEED the job. I mainly used the money for stupid things, like parties. So when I got hip to how hideously I was being treated, I was able to leave. A poor person with no place else to go does not have that choice. I get very angry when I hear the argument "well, the person doesn't have to work there!!" That statement implies that people who are destitute and desperate DESERVE to be abused and taken advantage of by their employers, and in the case of women, sexually harassed and discriminated against, and for non-whites, a steady dose of racial discrimination. There is OVERWHELMING evidence that Walmart routinely does all of these things to their employees. My sole experience wasn't enough to make me stop shopping there, unfortunately, but after several years and thousands of Walmart employees making the same accusations, I could easily see that the abuse that I experienced is systemic, and like a disease, spreads through all(or damn near) their stores. And what about China, where people work 15 hours a day, 7 days a week, all so that you can buy a toy for a few bucks cheaper than what you would pay somewhere else? And what about the women, in third-world countries, who are basically slave-laborers, who are beaten if they don't perform properly, and are paid a few dollars a day? All so that Walmart customers can have cheap clothes? Is it OK for poor people in this country to profit off the backs of even poorer people in other countries?? These abuses aren't just a "oh well, what can I do about it..." type of thing. They are DIRECTLY CAUSED BY YOUR PURCHASE OF THESE PRODUCTS. I'm not even getting into the countless other heartless, cruel, and nasty things that Walmart has done to it's employees, it's customers (violence in Walmart parking lots is shockingly common, yet Walmart does NOTHING to prevent it), it's suppliers, the earth, etc. etc...It's infuriating for me that consumers either don't see, or just don't give a damn about these things







. PLEASE watch the movie, "Walmart, the high cost of low prices." We got it at our local video store, ask for it at yours if it's not playing in your area. Ok, I will go take several deep breaths and calm down now...


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Here's another interesting tidbit from the Walmart Movie: For whichever year the stat is for, the Waltons gave 1% of their wealth to charity while Bill Gates gave 58%.

Ponder that for a moment and tell me again that poor desperate people deserve whatever they get just for the privilege of working there.









I'm thinking that maybe the WM a mile from us is better than most if only due to the demographics of this town, but then I remember the manager who addressed DH instead of me when *I* was buying a bicycle there, and the surprise in his voice when I knew how to adjust the seat height. I mean REALLY, you flip a lever and move the seat.







That right there speaks volumes of what is thought of women by management. I wish wish wish I'd looked at him and just walked away from the sale.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

My husband worked for a jewelry wholesaler (cheap teenie-bopper mall stuff) and WallMart was one of their clients. One of his jobs was to put earrings made in tiawan on little plastic cards that said "made in the USA"--totally true!--of the plastic cards themselves that is.

Now dh works for L&I and everyone there hates Wallmart because they consistently make a practice of voilating labor standards.

They are also notorious union-busters. They've shut down entire stores and divisions (meat packing fairly recently) because employees tried to unionize.

That they treat their employees badly doesn't even seem to be in question. There was actually an article in the WSJ about a year ago about how WallMart could learn from Costco--saying how Costco treated their employees well, had less turnover and similar profit margins in their stock.

HOWEVER, as someone who wants the gov't to provide MORE healthcare benefits not less, I don't want to focus too strongly on the argument that their employees are a burden on the gov't medical assistance program... finding more ways to get people off gov't medical assitance is not a cause I'm going to jump up and down over.

Also for any Hiliary Clinton fans, read "The best Democracy Money can Buy" by Greg Palast(?) and see how you feel about her being on the Senate Labor Committee after reading about her relationship to WalMart.

Oh, and I don't know where you get the $9/hr figure, it's min wage here.


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## Avena (May 27, 2005)

Sorry if this is repeat..Did not read all the post
A good site for info is walmartwatch.com

Here's my Personal op: This is MY op, I'm not trying to offend anyone just giving some facts

If you support Walmart (buying goods and giving them your $$$)
you support:

*Children & sweat shop slave labor in China, 70% of ALL walmart goods come from China
* Contributing to the demise of local family owned business in that town/area. SOOO many small family owned biz. are forced to shut down..They cannot compete with slave made $ of goods
* Walmart Keeps low wages paying jobs to their employees
* Destruction of the enviroment 'cuz how are all those goods getting to the US?
* Those 70% of all goods COULD be made in the US to support the people in this country but they won't because Walmart is too CHEAP!
* they sell crap, plastic etc which is no good health wise for anyone!

I'd say anyone who feels good about suppoting this should watch the movie:
The High Cost Of Low price www.walmartmovie.com


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