# Unconditional Love



## jessieann (May 4, 2007)

A tough question I know, but how do you think you would react if your child came out to you as a homosexual? I personally can’t speak from experience, but I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently. I know in my heart that I would be accepting no matter what, but it’s so hard to say how you would react to something until you experience it firsthand. Thoughts?


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

hmm that is a very good question. I have no problem with homesexuality and if it was my kids I would be uncomfortable at first because I like to understand everything but eventually it will just become normal. They will always be my babies


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

I've already talked to my children about homosexuality, and they know that I'm 100% accepting of it. They're very young (4 and 7), but I want them to know that they never have to feel like they'd have to hide something like that from me. Or worry about disappointing me. Teenagers commit suicide over things like that, and I never want my kids to worry about that. They would have my love and support 100%, just as they have it now.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

I think along w/ unconditional love one also should try to not have expectations or attachments to how our children will "turn out". You know my MIL is always trying to predict, in front of my DC's, what they should do or be when they grow up, this one should be a lawyer, this one an actress, this one a doctor. I have a mantra, and that is "I wish only happiness for my children". So I think the bigger issue for me would be is if they are O.K. w/ it, are they comfortable w/ their sexuality, are they happy?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

It would be hard at first, but I wouldn't be angry. Just sad. Then, I'd adjust perfectly fine, and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

I also think I would have just as hard a time if my daughter told me she didn't want to go to college. Or if she said she wanted to be a missionary and move to South America.

It's just a change, and I don't like change.


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## caenach (Jun 21, 2008)

Not really a tough question for me--if that's part of who DD is, that's part of who DD is. If I do my job right, she'll never have to worry that I would feel differently about her, or have trouble accepting her, because of who she is sexually/physically attracted to.


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

I actually thought about this a lot when DS was a baby for some reason. I know without a doubt it wouldn't phase me at all. Eh, bring your boyfriend home for Christmas, the more the merrier! It sounds glib, but honestly, as long as he's happy I'm happy.

Slightly OT, Doodlebugsmom, how did you talk to your kids about it? My oldest is only 4 but I've been trying to think of some way to bring it up to him without confusing him. It'd be easier if we were friends with gay people IRL...


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Finding out that one or both of my children were gay would cause zero emotional upheaval within our family.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.









Well, maybe not like a favourite colour, since that's changeable but yeah... I don't have it in my head right now that DS is straight...or gay...or anything. He's DS. I don't know yet if he'll be athletic, artistic, gay, straight...any of it. He's three. The rest will follow.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CallMeMommy* 
Slightly OT, Doodlebugsmom, how did you talk to your kids about it? My oldest is only 4 but I've been trying to think of some way to bring it up to him without confusing him. It'd be easier if we were friends with gay people IRL...

I had been wondering the same thing, but then yesterday an opportunity actually presented itself! We were watching the inauguration on TV, and I was telling DS that Michelle Obama is Barack Obama's wife. He mentioned that I am DH's wife, and then he said, "All men have a wife, right?" and I used that as an opportunity to talk about how some grown-ups are married to people of the opposite sex, some are married to people of the same sex, some are in relationships with people of the opposite or the same sex, and some are single. He was thoughtful for a few minutes, but he didn't really ask any questions, so we didn't discuss it beyond that.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I would absolutely support them unconditionally if any of my children were homosexual.







I don't even see it as a big deal, why on earth would a parent be upset? (I mean, I get that maybe it's not specifically what you invisioned for them... but shouldn't that dream be that they grow up happy and healthy and find true love --regardless of gender?)


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## Apple Girl (Nov 2, 2007)

Well, as long as he doesn't make out with his SO in front of me (whether SO is a he or a she) I'm fine with it. I hope by the time he is older the world will be a safer and friendlier place for homosexual men... honestly, my biggest thought would be fear that others would try to hurt him because of who he is.

There is nothing my sons could be or do to make me love them any less.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CallMeMommy* 

Slightly OT, Doodlebugsmom, how did you talk to your kids about it? My oldest is only 4 but I've been trying to think of some way to bring it up to him without confusing him. It'd be easier if we were friends with gay people IRL...

Actually, my dd brought it up, and ds was with us so he heard the conversation too. She was asking if you had to get married as an adult and if you had to marry a man. I told her that no, you can marry whomever you want. (I know that legally, that isn't the case, but hope by the time she's of that age it will be. At this age, she views marriage as living together with the person you love.)

Also, my best friend is a single mom so that leads to conversations about all the different types of families. Dd is also rather obsessed with the teenage life right now







and has talked about dating and the things teenagers do. When she brought that up, I told her she's free to date whomever she wants as a teenager. I let her know that it didn't matter what gender/sex they are. I just try to make seem as normal a thing as you can imagine. It's really important that my kids be accepting of everyone. I've also told her that there are people who think it's wrong to love a person of the same sex.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

If being gay is the biggest litmus test of inconditional love you can imagine you are lucky. I can imagine things that are genuinely horrifying... and I believe I would love my child through any of them.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apple Girl* 
Well, as long as he doesn't make out with his SO in front of me (whether SO is a he or a she)

Seriously. I am not ready for that.


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
If being gay is the biggest litmus test of inconditional love you can imagine you are lucky. I can imagine things that are genuinely horrifying... and I believe I would love my child through any of them.

For sure!


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I think I'd react the same way as I would if my children came out to me as a heterosexual: Slightly disappointed that they didn't identify as pansexual, but accepting of them as they are. My love for my children would not be tested or diminished by such a thing.


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## Right of Passage (Jul 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.

That! I have no idea what I'd say, because it's who they are. Dh and I have discussed it, neither of us would be bothered much less phased by it. I'd just be







: that they'd know who they are and weren't trying to hide it or being something else.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

It wouldn't cross my mind to be upset over my child coming out as gay any more than it would cross my mind to be upset that they preferred lima beans to peas.

As long as they have partners who love and respect them, I'll be happy.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I don't think it would matter to me. Luckily we have a very accepting community of church, family, and friends where my kid(s) would feel safe and cherished (as well as folks who have BTDT to be supportive about coming out to not-so-safe family and/or friends







.

But there ARE things that I would have hard time with such as:

*My child joins a very conservative, fundamentalist sect of Christianity--this would be triggering to me because of my own childhood/young adulthood.

*If my child were to commit a sexual crime.

*If my child were to abuse or neglect their partner/kids

I think especially the latter two would honestly cause me a great deal of shame, anger, disbelief, and fear--very similar to what I saw in my religion growing up if someone thought their kid was gay. Fear for what others would think, fear of people blaming me (and let's be real, they would, even on MDC), ect. The first one I would grieve because I know it would mean that they'd cut me out for a long time, because generally those sects encourage you to cut off anyone who doesn't share your beliefs.


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## Hesperia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I think I'd react the same way as I would if my children came out to me as a heterosexual: Slightly disappointed that they didn't identify as pansexual, but accepting of them as they are. My love for my children would not be tested or diminished by such a thing.

You ROCK!


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CallMeMommy* 
Slightly OT, Doodlebugsmom, how did you talk to your kids about it? My oldest is only 4 but I've been trying to think of some way to bring it up to him without confusing him. It'd be easier if we were friends with gay people IRL...

I think Dan Savage's way of talking about it with his son was great - he said something along the lines of: most of the time, men fall in love with women, and women fall in love with men, but sometimes men fall in love with men, and women fall in love with women. You don't get to pick - your heart will choose who you fall in love with.

Gay or straight or bi, I just hope that my child is loved and cherished by whoever he dates or marries.


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## naupakamama (Mar 26, 2005)

Definitely wouldn't bother me at all. In the current times, I might be a little sad that they could have tough times ahead of them because of other people. But it wouldn't phase me at all or my DH.

My SIL is gay. It doesn't phase us but it is sad that she clearly feels so uncomfortable in her own skin that it makes it hard. I felt so happy for her when I saw the first tender moment between her and her partner (they had been together for 10 years plus at that point).


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I don't think it would even occur to my children that it was something they needed to tell me anymore than they'd need to tell me their eye color or hair color. They'd just call me to tell me about the new love of their life, gender would hardly be relevent.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









Ugh. I would be so disappointed. I'd still love them (and hope for them to snap out of it), but I sure wouldn't LIKE them.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Would finding out my son in gay impact my love for him or my respect for him in any way? No, absolutely not, and I hope that my son would know that from seeing how I live and who I choose to associate with.

However, there would be a slight tinge of sadness in knowing that he would be making his way in a world that wouldn't support him 100%. Knowing that dreams like fatherhood will be more challenging for him to achieve, knowing that there will be places in this country where he may have to watch his physical safety carefully. DS is African American and I feel the same way about that (although maybe a little less so after yesterday














-- I could never be sad about something that's so deeply a part of who he is -- he's absolutely perfect the way God made him. However, I am a little sad to know that he's growing up in a world where he'll be followed in stores, and harrassed in other ways that my white brother doesn't have to worry about. Similarly, if he finds out he's gay, I'll be sad that I can't make the world perfect for him either, but not sad about who he is.

One thing that would hurt me (although it wouldn't diminish my love for him in any way) would be if I found out from someone other than my son. I really hope that my relationship with my son is strong enough that he would know without hesitation that he could trust me with this information.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

this wouldnt bother me in the slightest, unless they were all homosexual and non of them wanted to adopt kids, then I might be bummed I wouldnt get grandkids lol, but really, it wouldn't make the slightest difference for me if they are gay or straight. My uncle is gay, and to me its a total non issue. I agree its no different then a favorite color or food preferences etc.


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## Surfer Rosa (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessieann* 
A tough question I know, but how do you think you would react if your child came out to you as a homosexual? I personally can't speak from experience, but I've been thinking about it a lot recently. I know in my heart that I would be accepting no matter what, but it's so hard to say how you would react to something until you experience it firsthand. Thoughts?


It's sort of a non-issues for us...we would love our kids no matter what. Being gay isn't a choice-it's part of who they are. We would do our best to equip ourselves (and them!) with the tools they need in a prejudiced world.


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## Surfer Rosa (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









LOL-this is our big fear too! That our kids only way of rebelling will be to go as mainstream and conservative as possible. Yikes!


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## mamabain (Sep 19, 2002)

as to how to bring it up: it comes up often around here. one of my friends has a gay father in a committed relationship, so my dds friends have 3 grandpas on that side of the family. on our street there are several lesbian couples with kids and two that have been pregnant. my youngest calls one couple in particular, the two mamas.

also, whenever kids from ages 3 and up start talking about getting married, and bring out their girlfriend they are 'marrying', i have always been thrilled whether they bring out a girl or boy to marry. we've discussed this whenever marriage comes up: 'i wonder if you will marry a boy or a girl or be single? you know that some boys marry boys and some girls marry girls, right?'

at this point my youngest will usually say, 'yeah, like the two mamas down the street, right, mama?"

just like sex ed, there is no need for discussions about homosexuality to be a HUGE BIG SIT-DOWN deal. just bring it up in context casually and it will become a part of the child's vocabulary and worldview.

we also have taken books out of the library that bring it up casually, like KING and KING, (great book).


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## KyleAnn (May 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
It wouldn't cross my mind to be upset over my child coming out as gay any more than it would cross my mind to be upset that they preferred lima beans to peas.

As long as they have partners who love and respect them, I'll be happy.


Fantastic! I 100% completely agree.








:


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## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

We talk about relationships in generalities - love and marriage between same-sex is not taboo. Maybe some of that results from living in a big city? I have been intimately aware of lesbians since high school - never bothered me, even steadfastly heterosexual.

Some people think we're really permissive in allowing our children to know about "alternative" lifestyles, but I think it's important to teach our children to love and accept everyone, without emphasizing any differences. DD1 is 9, and she's just now realizing that some people care what color Obama's skin is. They don't know the word homosexual, but they do know that boys can live with boys and girls with girls. Sometimes they get married. They watch Ugly Betty with me - lots of exposure to different choices!!

We just hope our children are happy and healthy and find someone to love.
--janis


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

It's not my job to judge them, it's my job to love them. I couldn't care less if my child (or children) was homosexual. Why would that affect me in any way? It's their life, I'm just lucky enough to be a part of it.

Now DH might be different. I know he would accept it and nothing would change but I guarantee his "coming to grips" would be a longer process. I know he wouldn't let it show, but I also know that that's just the person he is.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Since I'm having a son I would say "ew... you kiss boys" But I'm going to say that to my children regardless of who they kiss!







We think my sister may be gay. Pansexual may be a better word. Honestly, if she settles down with a woman, no one would even have a thought about it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fridgeart* 
LOL-this is our big fear too! That our kids only way of rebelling will be to go as mainstream and conservative as possible. Yikes!

I almost cried when a girlfriend told me a story about how her daughter wrote something about how great FORMER (hehehe) president Bush was. That is the kind of thing that would just break my heart. Or if they said something racist/sexist.


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## earthgirl (Feb 6, 2006)

Well, DD is only 2 so it's hard for me to imagine her being anything but toddler-like. Having said that, I would be A-OK with her being a lesbian. And we live in Massachusetts so she'd be in a good place to be gay.







Now, there are other things that I would have _really hard_ time accepting, but I'll keep those to myself to avoid offending someone.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

My daughter has a lot of gay adults in her life so I don't know that she yet knows that it's something some people are not ok with or something that might be considered unusual. I think our "big talk" will not be that some men love men and some women love women and you should be with whoever your heart leads you to, but that some people are afraid of things they don't understand and it makes they say and do ugly things like be mean to perfectly nice people who aren't hurting anyone.

The year after I graduated a lot of my friends came out to their parents (we had been away at boarding school). Oh what a hard summer that was. The variety of reactions (we're now in our mid 30s and some of the parents still aren't speaking to some of the kids) was astonishing. I could never never never do that to my child. I can understand that it must have been a shock for some of them but come ON. This is your baby.


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## jessieann (May 4, 2007)

Thanks for answering mommies. I just had to ask you know- Because it's not unheard of for a parent to take their child to one of those reform camps, or to try in some way to "change their child's mind". If my child was gay i would definitely worry especially for my baby boy. The world seems a lot harder on gay men than women.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

It wouldn't even be an issue.


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## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I think I'd react the same way as I would if my children came out to me as a heterosexual: Slightly disappointed that they didn't identify as pansexual, but accepting of them as they are. My love for my children would not be tested or diminished by such a thing.











As a woman who has been sexually attracted to women as well as men in my life, I hope I wouldn't have much of a reaction at all...except to be supportive in whatever way I could.

Dd is 23 months, so we don't really have "talks" about things like that yet (and maybe we never will) but homosexuality is certainly part of our daily dialogue. Looking at photos, maybe that's the mama and the auntie, or maybe that baby has two mamas, etc. Dd has a friend who has two mamas, so same-gender parents are already part of her experience.

To me, it's no different than sharing anything else with dd. I talk to her constantly about all kinds of things, and I try to help her navigate images, experiences, things she hears and sees, things people say to her by talking about possible ways to interpret them.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

It would not affect my love for them at all. No matter what choices my children make, they are still my children and I will always love them. A mother's love should never wane.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *naupakamama* 
Definitely wouldn't bother me at all. In the current times, I might be a little sad that they could have tough times ahead of them because of other people.

This is how I would feel. I would love him no matter what and hope that people would be more accepting by the time we would ever get to that point.


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## Ygle (Mar 2, 2007)

Okay, I'll admit I really struggle with this one. While on one hand I would have no issues with any of my children becoming involved in a committed relationship with someone as long as they were kind of any gender, I would be troubled if they announced they were -insertanysexuallabelhere- I mean I didn't just end up with my husband because of something out of my control. I chose to love him mentally, emotionally, and physically because of the person he is... I can't imagine maintaining any relationship without making a concientious decision about it... anything else ebbs and flows if you don't set your mind to it and work at it. To be okay with my child being a victim of their desires, whatever direction those desires flow, I would have to believe love just happens rather than being something that has to be worked at constantly. I also would prefer my child to be involved in a heterosexual monogomous relationship with someone close in age just for health reasons (same as I would prefer them to be physically active, not eat junk food, avoid chemical cleaners), but of course I won't love them any less no matter what their choice (I would just really hope it to be a choice, I would be less accepting if it wasn't) and would definitely prefer a monogomous homosexual relationship to a lifetime of permiscuity (although I'm really uncomfortable thinking in these terms... I mean saying what I would prefer for my children since I truly believe it's their life and I find it offensive for any parent, including myself, to be deciding what's acceptable/good/bad/better, etc., for their children's lives... it's their life, and as long as they are happy and not maliciously hurting anyone, I'm proud of them!) But I would just be sad for my children if they felt something within them controlled their life, rather than getting to choose for themselves who and how they want to live and love.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Love for my child is unconditional . . . regardless of any conditions.









With that said, in our religious faith we believe that to act upon homosexual feelings (or polygamous or bisexual or transexual feelings, etc., for that matter) would be immoral. If dd recognized within herself homosexual impulses that would not be problematic per se, but to _act_ upon those impulse whether in thought or deed would be wrong (and as I mentioned earlier, the same would be true if she were to have sexual desires toward anyone other than her spouse in a married relationship as well). In our faith, we strive to either remain fully chaste and single (and that includes no sexual thoughts) or to live chastely within marriage (sharing those thoughts and actions only with one's spouse). And if a mistake happens, it is forgiven, so long as it is repented. Homosexuality would be handled no differently within our family than if she had any other impulse (for lack of a better term) that is immoral within our faith. We would love her, we would counsel her, we would pray for her. We would help her in any way that she felt she wanted help to overcome or put aside that impulse. If she chose not to put aside that impulse, we would still love her and welcome her as our daughter but we would not support or approve of her actions. You can love someone fully and unconditionally and still disagree with his/her decisions.


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









This.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

My 18yoDD (adopted) has three criminal warrants and one federal warrant out for her arrest, she's 9 months pregnant with a child she is entirely incapable of raising, she is intentionally homeless and on the run, and she has Borderline Personality Disorder (although her psychiatrist told me last week he suspects she's sociopathic). When she lived with us she was a pathological liar, she stole to such a severe extent that we had locks put on everyone's room to keep her out, and she called CPS on us constantly for made up crap that was always dismissed eventually but certainly put us through hell time and again.

And yeah, I still love her. She's still my kid, and while I wont save her from her mistakes, I'd still help her as much as possible, staying as emotionally detached as I can. But that's what unconditional love is.

But being gay? If she snapped out of all this and turned up tomorrow reformed and ready to live a stable, productive life...but she'd decided she was gay? Hell...I'd be doing backflips. And I'd probably play matchmaker too. She can be gay any day, wouldn't phase me a bit. But the sociopathic criminal stuff...now THAT we can do without. Trust me.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









Ok I admit it. THAT would be crossing the line around here. My kids know that they can be ANYTHING but an evangelical right winger. Ok. Kidding. I'd still love 'em.

_But I wouldn't like 'em much....grrrrr_


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

when my 6 year old waiting patiently for the result heard that prop 8 had won and cried piteously 'but mommy what is going to happen when i grow old and i want to marry a girl'. she was really concerned what would happen to our good friend who had just got married. could they still stay married. i didnt feed her any info but she felt it was unfair that she wouldnt have the right to marry.

but i would be sad. yes for sure. because i know its not an easy path. and i can be there and hold her and love her but she has to bear the brunt of society. BUT she is a confident outgoing child. i know she will cope.

seriously i cant wait for her to have a baby. :embarrased


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Absolutely, positively no problem with it whatsoever. My normal Mama Bear worry may increase a bit b/c society can be so cruel.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









Now THAT would be a challenge.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 

but i would be sad. yes for sure. because i know its not an easy path. and i can be there and hold her and love her but she has to bear the brunt of society.

I felt the same way a few years ago, but now... meh. Everyone has to struggle against society in one way or another. It's how societies are reformed, and if you teach your children that societal reform is one of their duties as a good citizen they should be well armored and ready to fight the good fight, and come out better for it.

I met a mother this summer whose son sexually abused her daughter. She should teach workshops in unconditional love. Gay kids? Not even touching my anxiety radar. Kind of tickling it, to tell you the truth. I will know my children are healthy and whole when they can declare their identities and dance along to the consequences.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
My 18yoDD (adopted) has three criminal warrants and one federal warrant out for her arrest, she's 9 months pregnant with a child she is entirely incapable of raising, she is intentionally homeless and on the run, and she has Borderline Personality Disorder (although her psychiatrist told me last week he suspects she's sociopathic). When she lived with us she was a pathological liar, she stole to such a severe extent that we had locks put on everyone's room to keep her out, and she called CPS on us constantly for made up crap that was always dismissed eventually but certainly put us through hell time and again.

And yeah, I still love her. She's still my kid, and while I wont save her from her mistakes, I'd still help her as much as possible, staying as emotionally detached as I can. But that's what unconditional love is.

But being gay? If she snapped out of all this and turned up tomorrow reformed and ready to live a stable, productive life...but she'd decided she was gay? Hell...I'd be doing backflips. And I'd probably play matchmaker too. She can be gay any day, wouldn't phase me a bit. But the sociopathic criminal stuff...now THAT we can do without. Trust me.









my sentiments that you are living everyday.


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## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

I can't possibly see how I would react negatively or feel any differently about my child. I love them for whoever they become.


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## LeahC (Sep 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.

Ahhh, this is so true. Thank you for putting it so simply. I completely agree with you. I want my children to be happy and healthy, and if that means that they are heterosexual, then great. If that means that they are homosexual, then great. I just want them to be them.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

No problem at all with that. I know as a teen I did think I'd be disapointed if my kid turned out to be gay, but luckily I finished growing up, and so did my views.







I just have to make sure that IF my kids are gay, or my friends' kids, or anyone's, they can get married and still have the big/unique/small/beach/whatever wedding I sometimes dream about having for my kids







I think we'll get there by that time.

I can't imagine not loving my kids unconditionally. No matter what they do, or who they turn out to be, I will still love them as my babies.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

No problems here. We don't even assume to know our childrens preferences yet.


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## Tangled Hill (Jun 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hoopin' Mama* 
Absolutely, positively no problem with it whatsoever. My normal Mama Bear worry may increase a bit b/c society can be so cruel.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I hope that my kids find someone to love, who loves them, and they live happy lives. Gender is a non issue.

After discovering that my son has down syndrome I was VERY sad to learn that he is most likely sterile. I also learned that many of the parents of girls with down syndrome I have met do not want their children dating (I am talking about parents of kids currently in their late teens and early 20s.







) I worry that he will have a hard time meeting someone to have a relationship with. Because of this I really hope he is not gay. It would make things so much harder for him. But it's not because of any anti gay feelings. If he did not have Ds I would not have given the issue a second thought.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

There is nothing my children could do or tell me that would me make me love them any less or think any less of them. I worry about how my husband would handle something like this, though.


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## pdxmomazon (Oct 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









laughup

Actually, if one of my girls turns out queer I'll be really excited. Of course I'll love them just as much if they're straight, but it'd be nice to have another queer in the family!


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

I'd react the same way as if they told me they are heterosexual. I never really declared any sexual preference myself, I just kind of ended up marrying my husband and I say I'd still be with him if he was a woman.







I'd probably just shrug and be proud they are comfortable asserting who they are, and advise them that love comes in many forms and we should always have an open heart (even if,or especially if, they said outright that they were heterosexual).

Someone mentioned talking to their 4 and 7 year old about it. Did they ask? I find it shocking to discuss sexuality at all with children that young. I mean if they ask of course you should give an honest answer but I just can't see sitting down with a 7 year old and saying "we're going to talk about sexuality now."


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 

Someone mentioned talking to their 4 and 7 year old about it. Did they ask? I find it shocking to discuss sexuality at all with children that young. I mean if they ask of course you should give an honest answer but I just can't see sitting down with a 7 year old and saying "we're going to talk about sexuality now."

My son LOVES the book "And Tango Makes Three", which is a true story about two male penguins in a zoo who choose each other as mates, and raise a penguin chick. It is a sweet story and makes it seem perfectly fine for two males to choose each other and raise a baby - it has lead to many discussions about who gets married, different families, etc.

To answer the original question, my love for my son wouldn't change at all. As long as he is living a happy, fulfilled, positive life, however the details of that are filled in is fine with me!


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
My 18yoDD (adopted) has three criminal warrants and one federal warrant out for her arrest, she's 9 months pregnant with a child she is entirely incapable of raising, she is intentionally homeless and on the run, and she has Borderline Personality Disorder (although her psychiatrist told me last week he suspects she's sociopathic). When she lived with us she was a pathological liar, she stole to such a severe extent that we had locks put on everyone's room to keep her out, and she called CPS on us constantly for made up crap that was always dismissed eventually but certainly put us through hell time and again.

And yeah, I still love her. She's still my kid, and while I wont save her from her mistakes, I'd still help her as much as possible, staying as emotionally detached as I can. But that's what unconditional love is.

But being gay? If she snapped out of all this and turned up tomorrow reformed and ready to live a stable, productive life...but she'd decided she was gay? Hell...I'd be doing backflips. And I'd probably play matchmaker too. She can be gay any day, wouldn't phase me a bit. But the sociopathic criminal stuff...now THAT we can do without. Trust me.









, mama. That sounds so hard.

I agree, I would have no problem with a gay child. I would be disappointed, angry, even heartbroken if I had children who were cruel or dishonest or violent. I would still love them, of course, but those are qualities I would struggle to accept. Their sexuality? No big deal.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessieann* 
A tough question I know, but how do you think you would react if your child came out to you as a homosexual?

When I talk to my children, I usually try and talk about their lives as if either is a possibility. Like I might say something about if they have a boyfriend if they are older, or a girlfriend if they turn out to be lesbians...etc. So I'm not trying to have any set expectations. Heck, I don't really know what will happen, if they'll do well in school, if they'll graduate, if they'll want to go to college, if they'll become really conservative religiously, etc. I figure it's best not to plan on anything, because so far the things I've planned and hoped for...well, they aren't exactly turning out how I expected.

I really don't care if they are Republicans, but there are certain lifestyles that I would not really be happy about.


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## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

My oldest daughter likes girls (for now, she's only 11, so it may change). I'm SO proud of her for 1,000 different things, but her open-mindedness and confidence are definitely among those things! She wants to be America's first lesbian president, and one day she just might be!

We live an alternative lifestyle ourselves, and have many friends who are gay/bi/transgendered, so my kids have grown up believing all this to be completely normal and acceptable. It is hard, particularly in a conservative area like ours, but I wouldn't worry about their safety and happiness anymore if they choose to love differently than most. They won't be anymore different than their mommy and daddies, and we've done just fine.

There is absolutely nothing my kids could do to make me stop loving and supporting them. Even if they committed a horrible crime or became a social conservative. Of course I'd be disappointed, though.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
Someone mentioned talking to their 4 and 7 year old about it. Did they ask? I find it shocking to discuss sexuality at all with children that young. I mean if they ask of course you should give an honest answer but I just can't see sitting down with a 7 year old and saying "we're going to talk about sexuality now."

With my kids, I've made it a point to never assume anything about their sexual orientation -- so we've ALWAYS talked about how they may fall in love with a boy, or a girl, and that led to questions from my daughter (when she was 3-4ish) about how she could have a baby if she had a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend (we'd had the reproduction talk before she turned 3, she asked when I was pregnant). We also watched movies that discussed homosexuality and when she got interested in the musical, Rent, at 5, it gave us a great opportunity to talk about men who love men and women who love women. I also have friends who are gay, so it's just normal for the kids to hear me talk about "B and her girlfriend," and she certainly notices that her dad and I _both_ point out women we find attractive when we're watching movies and tv. I'm wondering if/when she'll notice that I don't much look at men!

I don't know as I ever would want to sit down and "have a talk" about sexuality with the kids -- I think it's much better for these things to just come about as part of your daily lives. However, if my kid was six or seven and it had never come up . . . I think I'd be looking for ways to bring it up.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I can't believe some people find it shocking to talk to a 4 year old or 7 year old about this. My 4 year old's classmate's parents are a lesbian couple. We've always talked about ended like Viola- having a boyfriend or girlfriend or husband or wife, that people can fall in love with whoever, that some people have two mommies or two daddies, or just one mommy or just one daddy, or grandparents or aunts and uncles or whoever. This is just reality.

We've also talked about sex. We have the book "It's Not the Stork." I can't imagine not talking about sexuality in general life and leaving it as some big secret topic to talk about at a later date.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

I've been thinking about this thread and it makes me really sad that people are still discussing "Will you still love your child if she/ he is gay?" It's not 1954.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
I've been thinking about this thread and it makes me really sad that people are still discussing "Will you still love your child if she/ he is gay?" It's not 1954.


For serious. I think it's time to move on to questions like, I don't know, how we plan on sustaining life on earth through the next couple of centuries? You know, so we can still worry about whether our kids are gay or straight in 2090.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadebug* 
My son LOVES the book "And Tango Makes Three", which is a true story about two male penguins in a zoo who choose each other as mates, and raise a penguin chick.



Did they use an egg donor?


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 

Someone mentioned talking to their 4 and 7 year old about it. Did they ask? I find it shocking to discuss sexuality at all with children that young. I mean if they ask of course you should give an honest answer but I just can't see sitting down with a 7 year old and saying "we're going to talk about sexuality now."









: OMG. Of course they ask! I don't bring up the topic of sex. Dd asked me when she was three where babies come from. I told her. She asked if you had to be married, I told her no. She asked if kids could do it, I told her no. I told her it was between adults who love and care for each other. She likes to talk about it and ask questions from time to time. I like to keep it as a topic we can talk about any time without her (or her brother) being embarrassed or ashamed.

I haven't talked to her about how gay people have sex. She hasn't asked. All I've talked about in that regard is you can love and be married to anyone you wish.


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## FamilyGrl (May 10, 2007)

Definitely not a tough question at all, I love my babies to death regardless.It is a timely question however because I just finished reading the book "Prayers for Bobby". Such a heart wrenching story that deals with exactly this issue. The mother in the book was just awful and rejected her son for being homosexual. Unfortunately, it took a huge tragedy for her to see the errors of her ways and as a result she ended up being a tremendously influential gay rights activist (true story).


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## Teenytoona (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
If being gay is the biggest litmus test of inconditional love you can imagine you are lucky. I can imagine things that are genuinely horrifying... and I believe I would love my child through any of them.

Yeah that!


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
I've been thinking about this thread and it makes me really sad that people are still discussing "Will you still love your child if she/ he is gay?" It's not 1954.


totally what I was thinking!!


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
totally what I was thinking!!

I agree. I have to admit that I was surprised when that turned out to be the question posed in the OP -- I thought it'd be something much more controversial than homosexuality.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I agree. I have to admit that I was surprised when that turned out to be the question posed in the OP -- I thought it'd be something much more controversial than homosexuality.

It's not controversial because it's MDC...

DH's parents still want as little to do with use because of the gay factor. Even in 2009 there are plenty of people who consider it a mental illness that needs fixing.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
It's not controversial because it's MDC...

DH's parents still want as little to do with use because of the gay factor. Even in 2009 there are plenty of people who consider it a mental illness that needs fixing.

You're right.









I guess living in a progressive state can be just as sheltering, in a different way, as living in an intolerant area.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.









:


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
DH's parents still want as little to do with use because of the gay factor.

Wow I am so sorry to hear that! They are really missing out on your family, aren't they? I know someone who has said they'd be ok if their daughter was gay...but not if their son was









I remember that fear, and that's all it is...fear...because I was a screaming fundamentalist for most of my life. I am ashamed to admit that I even marched against the rainbow on multiple occasions







:







:







:

My 'conversion' to normalcy happened as a direct result of two very kind and loving men, both of whom assaulted the very core of my soul by being gay, pagan, AND the best friends anyone could ask for during the worst time of my life. They went out of their way to patiently and gently bring me around to some semblance of sanity (although how much sanity I possess shall be left undiscussed







) and I've been a recovering right-winger ever since.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
It's not controversial because it's MDC...

DH's parents still want as little to do with use because of the gay factor. Even in 2009 there are plenty of people who consider it a mental illness that needs fixing.

one of the 'spouse swap' people called it a "birth defect"









I think normal is a birth defect.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Since this thread is titled "Unconditional Love," I thought I'd throw this in there:

My brother was 27, a college graduate, good stable job, living on his own for quite awhile, and his girlfriend got pregnant. So, he was having a baby "out of wedlock."

My mom confessed to me that _she couldn't love him the same._ Yikes. I've never forgotten that.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessieann* 
A tough question I know, but how do you think you would react if your child came out to you as a homosexual? I personally can't speak from experience, but I've been thinking about it a lot recently. I know in my heart that I would be accepting no matter what, but it's so hard to say how you would react to something until you experience it firsthand. Thoughts?

I think I'd probably thank them for feeling comfortable enough to tell me and just be really open to hearing about their life. I think the one thing I would worry about (and I think I'd worry about this with straight kids too) is about them wanting to have kids, as in - please have kids!


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Of course their sexual orientation would make no difference to my feelings. Now ask me how I would feel if they became a right-wing republican?









Funny! I just asked my husband and his answer was "No big deal, but I don't know what I'd do if they joined the army!"


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## christy005 (Mar 5, 2007)

It would not matter to me in the slightest. I would be sad that he probably would be be judged and looked down on by others for his lifestyle, but I would unconditionally love him, and my husband and I agree on this.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessieann* 
I know in my heart that I would be accepting no matter what, but it's so hard to say how you would react to something until you experience it firsthand. Thoughts?


I think that when the time comes to choose between hanging on to your beliefs about how someone you love should be and loving that person, you will find the choice easy.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
I think I'd probably thank them for feeling comfortable enough to tell me and just be really open to hearing about their life. I think the one thing I would worry about (and I think I'd worry about this with straight kids too) is about them wanting to have kids, as in - please have kids!

ITA!!!! I think I'd have a hard time accepting it if my kids didn't want to have kids. I mean, of COURSE I would love them no matter what, but c'mon now...PLEASE have kids!!!! Adopt, bio, donor, don't care....LOLOL


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

It's hard for me to see a question like this on here, and to read a couple of the responses. It's not like I have any illusions this (homophobia/bigotry/whatever) is not out there. I live with it daily. It is just that in order to emotionally survive, I have insulated myself from as much of it as I can.

I find myself reading responses like, "it would be okay, if she didn't act on it," and feeling so hurt because I know intimately the way that can crush a soul. My dw almost lost her parents this way because she knew if she wasn't going to become seriously mentally ill like her older gay cousin, she couldn't live the same life of self-hatred...the same life of constantly running from *herself.* She was terrified of telling her parents, who don't share our same faith. Terrified.

She didn't have her period for years while she was in the closet...because of all the stress (it came back immediately after she came out). She became extremely ill in the months leading up to coming out. She could not eat nor sleep for weeks on end. She was ashy in color and it actually looked like she had two black eyes because she had these blue circles under her eyes. When she finally wrote them the letter in which she came out, she knew that mailing it might mean the end forever of her relationship with her parents. She knew where her parents stood: they'd love her but want her to change, and change would not have been biologically possible. Her heart was so heavy, I was afraid it might stop. She mailed the letter to her sister, asking that her sister deliver it to her parents personally. The day that was scheduled to happen, dw was in the bathroom throwing up and crying off and on all day. She was 22 or 23 at the time.

I believe her parents' response saved dw's life. I was there. It was about midnight our time, which would have been 2am their time, so clearly they'd had a long night of talking and praying and crying. They phoned dw, and dw did not pick it up for she was too afraid. Then we heard her mother leave a message: "This was a complete surprise. We had no idea. We are totally shocked. But we love you. We want you to know that we love you and _will support you_. Please don't be afraid."

dw burst into tears of relief at her parents message of not just love but of support, we talked for a few minutes, and dw finally fell sound asleep. She slept a solid twelve hours before she awoke. And she woke up a truly changed woman.

I think it is important to note that:

30% of glbt and questioning youth attempt suicide (compared to 10% of the more general population). Those who feel least able to "come out" due to family pressure and emotional safety factors, etc. are the most likely to attempt suicide.
glbt individuals who are not out are the least likely to be educated about or practice safe sex, placing them and their families (in cases where they have married in a same-sex relationship to live up to societal pressures) at high risk for HIV infections and other deadly results of unsafe sex...of course, keep in mind that lesbians are the least likely of any population to contract any type of STI/STD







, so this statistic is most concerning for men.
glbt youth have a statistically high risk of depression, anxiety, and mental illness when compared with other youth. The risk is highest when students do not feel safe being "out" to their most important support networks, such as family and friends. Years in the closet can and often do accumulate into massive mental instability and mental health issues.
90% of glbt students report being harrassed or assaulted at school (compared to 62% of the overall population). 33% have been threated at school with a weapon (compared to 7% of the overall population), and 22% feel unsafe at school due to their orientation, but those who are not out at home are highly unlikely to share these problems with their parents or to seek help when needed. 25% of glbt youth miss school because of fear (compared to 5% of larger population), which places them at high risk for dropping out before graduating from high school.
On a final note, I must say I am disappointed that someone expressed shock over talking to four and seven year olds about this. I am a bi woman in a monogamous lifelong relationship (marriage) to another woman, and we are raising a family. We are one of many types of families out there, and so long as people maintain a defacto "don't ask, don't tell" position about our families, our own children will continue to be marginalized. It's not talking with kids about "sexuality." More than anything, my bi identity is one of "affectional orientation," not "sexual orientation." I don't see myself as a bisexual. I see myself as a biaffectional individual. There is *nothing* wrong with telling a four or seven year old that-- as someone else said already-- most women fall in love with men and most men fall in love with women, but sometimes women fall in love with women and men fall in love with men, and we don't get to choose which it is.


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

I would still unconditionally love and support them.


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## MaggieGrace (May 7, 2007)

Ohh, I just saw an interview with Sigourney weaver for this prayers for bobby movie this morning: http://weblogs.cw11.com/news/local/m..._w_1.html#more

This is a link to the trailer: 




On tomorrow night at 9 on lifetime&#8230;already have my tivo set (And my box of tissues ready)

Sierra is right with her GLBTQ stats and the mother in this story had to learn the hard way. I wouldn't though if my chid came to me an confessed such a thing I'd just say "Oh, that's nice dear. Have you finished your homework?" hahaha I love my kids nothing they could ever do would cause me to deny them my love. There are ways they could hurt me, like be being racist or just hateful in general, but never by loving some one.


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## Tangled Hill (Jun 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaggieGrace* 
There are ways they could hurt me, like be being racist or just hateful in general, but never by loving some one.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

We have lesbian family members so this has been discussed, my daughter knows what homosexuality is and knows that we're fine with it. I only hope she someday finds love. With whom she finds it is not an issue.


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## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honolula* 
Did they use an egg donor?

The penguins adopt a second egg from another family that could not take care of two eggs at once.

It's a good book.

My 4 year old has asked if boys can marry boys. I don't think it's odd to talk about. We said yes. He did ask if two boys can have a baby. I was a little stumped on that one - we went with, yes, but it's a little harder.


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
It's hard for me to see a question like this on here, and to read a couple of the responses. It's not like I have any illusions this (homophobia/bigotry/whatever) is not out there. I live with it daily. It is just that in order to emotionally survive, I have insulated myself from as much of it as I can.

I find myself reading responses like, "it would be okay, if she didn't act on it," and feeling so hurt because I know intimately the way that can crush a soul. My dw almost lost her parents this way because she knew if she wasn't going to become seriously mentally ill like her older gay cousin, she couldn't live the same life of self-hatred...the same life of constantly running from *herself.* She was terrified of telling her parents, who don't share our same faith. Terrified.

The specific problem here, though, is the fear of abandonment, no? For parents who truly love their children and will not stop that love no.matter.what then there is nothing to fear in this regard. I abolutely believe that no one should suffer emotional abandonment by one's parents under any circumstances, as that rocks one to the very foundational and primal core of one's being, but as a parent you can still love your child and yet disagree with your child's choices, no? I would expect my child to handle her sexuality within the context of our religion--regardless of her sexual "orientation"--and I would be disappointed in her decision if she did not, whether that was choosing to engage in a homosexual relationship or having sex out wedlock or looking at pornography, etc. Note that is 'disappointment' not 'abandonment.'

As to losing one's self-identity because one is not free to act upon one's sexual desires . . . I just simply do not buy this reasoning. There are lots of religious heterosexual people in this world who, because of their faith, are able to sublimate their sexual feelings and remain happy and single and fulfilled, and loving toward people in a platonic way. I personally do not believe that not having sex has to be all that traumatic, but this is a very countercultural belief, and I realize that. I don't believe that people inevitably have to be victims of their emotions or that their emotions/desires are outside their control. I'm saying this because I'm tired of the argument that people of all persuasions give that their lives have spiraled out of control because of others' rejection (please note that I'm not talking about parents' rejection here, as I think that is an entirely different scenario). I think taking control over one's life fully (including sexual desires) is difficult and most people don't want to make the effort and it makes them feel better by removing the responsibility off of their shoulders. As I have previously mentioned, I have no qualms with anyone who feels s/he is homosexual, but under my religion, it is the act of living out that homosexuality that is wrong. The orientation is separate from the acts chosen to be done because of that orientation.

I do think homosexuals are victims of real hatred (acts of violence, employment discrimination, hateful slurs, just to name a few) and my heart aches for anyone who undergoes those things, but not everyone who disagrees with the practice of homosexuality "hates" homosexuals or wishes them ill and not all homosexuals endure hatred to the same degree. One problem I've seen in the last few years is the association of any negative feelings toward homosexuality with "hate speech." People tend to see this as "all or nothing," "black and white," "if you're not for us then you're against us." I've yet to think of any other situation in which there is no middle ground allowed, except for perhaps abortion. Surely people can disagree with someone's lifestyle and choices and still seek to love and befriend them, and that goes for both sides of the fence! It's bizarre to me how quickly the conversation jumps from "I disagree with the practice of homosexuality" to "You are homophobic." Really, that's simply prejudice of a different stripe. I think what actually is happening is that two different world-views are colliding and some people are just not able to handle that. I've been friends with many homosexuals over the years, as I have been friends with people who have also had children out of wedlock and some who have actively engaged in pornography (to continue the example I mentioned earlier). In all of these cases, the friendships that I have lost once my views became known were the homosexual relationships. The other two groups were willing to at least "agree to disagree." There seems to be a belief in these days that unless you think that homosexuality is 100% fine, then you must "hate" or somehow be against homosexuals (the word 'bigot' gets thrown out quite a lot), which is simplified and extremist thinking at it's finest. And it's also unapologetic religious discrimination. Whether one thinks that reversed discrimination is deserved or not, I think most people will at least agree with the old adage, "two wrongs don't make a right." This way of thinking is never good in the end. And if you take a critical look at some of the responses in this thread, you will see this very sentiment in action.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Sierra, the story about DW and parents made me cry. In a good way.

But I'm also sad because there are so many people who don't have parents who are willing to catch them when they take the plunge like that.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I would have no problem with it. It's the same to me as having a favorite color or being left-handed. It's just a part of who a person is.

This is how I feel. Straight or gay - it's all the same around here!


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## keilonwy (Dec 4, 2007)

My son is four months old. I tell him all the time that I want him to find love, and that when he does I will be joyous. If that is with a man, I'm glad that he's a dual American-Canadian citizen - he can move to Canada and get married if America hasn't smartened up its act by then. If it's with a woman, he can still move to Canada. I just want him to be with someone who loves him for him.

I do think that it is harmful to say that you disagree with someone's sexual orientation. Homosexuality exists not just in humans, and anyone with any sense knows that no one would "choose" a lifestyle with the consequences that homosexuality, unfortunately, can have - hatred, discrimination, estrangement. If it were under a person's control, wouldn't they choose the easy way? We love who we love. There's about as much control over it as the color of your skin.

I'm sorry if any of this is confrontational, but disagreeing with someone's "choice" to be homosexual is like disagreeing with someone's "choice" to be black, and it really, really hurts me, even though I am heterosexual.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I was sobbing at the story about Sierra's DW coming out as well.

I lost a friend about nine years ago. He was 18 and he committed suicide. He was dealing with the possibility of coming out to his evangelical Christian parents. It was a huge struggle for him. A parent's love and acceptance is so incredibly important - even to an adult. My friend's parents believed homosexuality to be a sin. He never came out to them completely. And, I guess he decided that dying was preferable to living without his parents ever truly accepting him and loving him as he was.


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## keilonwy (Dec 4, 2007)

Luxperpetua, you're saying that people shouldn't have the same right to express their love for each other in a mutually pleasing, positive manner because of their chromosomes? I guess you thank your lucky stars that you have the self control to love someone of the opposite gender.

I was very ill for a while, and unable to make love with my husband. It was terrible to not be able to connect with him in that way.

And, also, I can argue semantics with the best of them:

ho·mo·pho·bia : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty :
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex

So, yes, disliking "practicing homosexuality" is the same thing as being homophobic.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
but as a parent you can still love your child and yet disagree with your child's choices, no? I would expect my child to handle her sexuality within the context of our religion--regardless of her sexual "orientation"--and I would be disappointed in her decision if she did not, whether that was choosing to engage in a homosexual relationship or having sex out wedlock or looking at pornography, etc. Note that is 'disappointment' not 'abandonment.'

I have no qualms with anyone who feels s/he is homosexual, but under my religion, it is the act of living out that homosexuality that is wrong. The orientation is separate from the acts chosen to be done because of that orientation.

Surely people can disagree with someone's lifestyle and choices and still seek to love and befriend them, and that goes for both sides of the fence!

I think what actually is happening is that two different world-views are colliding and some people are just not able to handle that.

I've been friends with many homosexuals over the years, as I have been friends with people who have also had children out of wedlock and some who have actively engaged in pornography (to continue the example I mentioned earlier).

There seems to be a belief in these days that unless you think that homosexuality is 100% fine, then you must "hate" or somehow be against homosexuals (the word 'bigot' gets thrown out quite a lot), which is simplified and extremist thinking at it's finest. And it's also unapologetic religious discrimination.

First I have to say that I could have written this post about ten years ago. I genuinely believed in my heart of hearts exactly like you. I really did. But here's the thing...

Homosexuality is not a choice. It doesn't matter what your religion says. And no, it's not discrimination for me to say that. Religion has said (among many other things) that the world is flat, that the sun circles the earth, that brown skin is a punishment from Satan, and that heaven is up and hell is down. So when religion tells you homosexuality is a choice, a voluntary act of behavior, please please please know that this is also just as wrong. It isn't discrimination for me to tell you the earth is round, even though your religion may, at some point, have taught it is flat. It's a simple fact. Homosexuality is not sinful, and saying it's ok to be gay as long as you don't act on it is just splitting semantics while cloaking the argument in passivity. If you believe in God, and that God made all things, than you know God made other animals who are homosexual as well. Taking God out of it leads you to science, which also shows inherently it is a genetic issue...after all, the LARGE majority of homosexual people are born to heterosexual couples. And...even more interestingly...a good number are also born to families that 'religiously' oppose homosexuality. It's not a choice. It's not a 'behavior option'. It's WHO THEY ARE.

And it breaks my heart that people still believe otherwise.


----------



## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
As to losing one's self-identity because one is not free to act upon one's sexual desires . . . I just simply do not buy this reasoning. There are lots of religious heterosexual people in this world who, because of their faith, are able to sublimate their sexual feelings and remain happy and single and fulfilled, and loving toward people in a platonic way. I personally do not believe that not having sex has to be all that traumatic, but this is a very countercultural belief, and I realize that. I don't believe that people inevitably have to be victims of their emotions or that their emotions/desires are outside their control. I'm saying this because I'm tired of the argument that people of all persuasions give that their lives have spiraled out of control because of others' rejection (please note that I'm not talking about parents' rejection here, as I think that is an entirely different scenario). I think taking control over one's life fully (including sexual desires) is difficult and most people don't want to make the effort and it makes them feel better by removing the responsibility off of their shoulders. As I have previously mentioned, I have no qualms with anyone who feels s/he is homosexual, but under my religion, it is the act of living out that homosexuality that is wrong. The orientation is separate from the acts chosen to be done because of that orientation.

You are focusing on sex when there's more to being gay then getting laid.

Acting on my homosexuality means:

1) I have someone in my life I love enough that sex or no sex is essentially a non-issue.

2) Having the family I have now. Not just DH but DD and DS too.

3) Not feeling guilty when I want to be close to DH whether it be emotionally or physically.

Saying people can be happy without sex, is different from saying you can be happy without acting on your homosexuality. Saying they are the same is ignoring the emotional aspects of a same-sex relationship.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You are focusing on sex when there's more to being gay then getting laid.

Acting on my homosexuality means:

1) I have someone in my life I love enough that sex or no sex is essentially a non-issue.

2) Having the family I have now. Not just DH but DD and DS too.

3) Not feeling guilty when I want to be close to DH whether it be emotionally or physically.

Saying people can be happy without sex, is different from saying you can be happy without acting on your homosexuality. Saying they are the same is ignoring the emotional aspects of a same-sex relationship.

MusicianDad - I love how you convey this, absolutely fantastic!


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## kolleen9 (May 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
I've been thinking about this thread and it makes me really sad that people are still discussing "Will you still love your child if she/ he is gay?" It's not 1954.

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this thread. It would be like saying would you still love your kid if they had freckles, or were born a different color than you, or had webbed feet, or were short ;-)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
Funny! I just asked my husband and his answer was "No big deal, but I don't know what I'd do if they joined the army!"

Great response! I could add a few of my own. I know I think about my son's future partner and wonder how'd I feel if they vax their kids, or he chose to vax himself for easier travel outside the US, or chose a life of crime etc.

But asking how'd you accept your kid if they were normal but different than you....







:

-Kolleen


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think it is homophobic to say that gay people should have to go through life without loving intimate relationships. It's unfair. Some people can be happy single forever, whether straight or gay, and that's fine if those people choose to be alone. And even people who haven't found someone at least have hope that they someday will. But to be told from the outside that they have to be alone, and forever with no hope, is just wrong and has to create a lot of lonely and unhappy people in the world. I can't imagine telling a child of mine something like that.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
It's hard for me to see a question like this on here, and to read a couple of the responses. It's not like I have any illusions this (homophobia/bigotry/whatever) is not out there. I live with it daily. It is just that in order to emotionally survive, I have insulated myself from as much of it as I can.

I find myself reading responses like, "it would be okay, if she didn't act on it," and feeling so hurt because I know intimately the way that can crush a soul. My dw almost lost her parents this way because she knew if she wasn't going to become seriously mentally ill like her older gay cousin, she couldn't live the same life of self-hatred...the same life of constantly running from *herself.* She was terrified of telling her parents, who don't share our same faith. Terrified.

She didn't have her period for years while she was in the closet...because of all the stress (it came back immediately after she came out). She became extremely ill in the months leading up to coming out. She could not eat nor sleep for weeks on end. She was ashy in color and it actually looked like she had two black eyes because she had these blue circles under her eyes. When she finally wrote them the letter in which she came out, she knew that mailing it might mean the end forever of her relationship with her parents. She knew where her parents stood: they'd love her but want her to change, and change would not have been biologically possible. Her heart was so heavy, I was afraid it might stop. She mailed the letter to her sister, asking that her sister deliver it to her parents personally. The day that was scheduled to happen, dw was in the bathroom throwing up and crying off and on all day. She was 22 or 23 at the time.

I believe her parents' response saved dw's life. I was there. It was about midnight our time, which would have been 2am their time, so clearly they'd had a long night of talking and praying and crying. They phoned dw, and dw did not pick it up for she was too afraid. Then we heard her mother leave a message: "This was a complete surprise. We had no idea. We are totally shocked. But we love you. We want you to know that we love you and _will support you_. Please don't be afraid."

dw burst into tears of relief at her parents message of not just love but of support, we talked for a few minutes, and dw finally fell sound asleep. She slept a solid twelve hours before she awoke. And she woke up a truly changed woman.


I have not been reading much of the rest of this thread, so cannot comment on it, but I just want to say this story has me in tears, near sobbing. How beautiful...how brave of all involved.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*


The specific problem here, though, is the fear of abandonment, no?


No, she knew her parents would always love her no matter what, like I said. She did have somewhat of a fear of abandonment, but that was only one aspect. She also felt because of their faith that her parents would never be able to accept her for who she truly is. She had watched her aunt and uncle and her older gay cousin in action under this mentality, and her cousin became _extremely_ ill (mentally...and actually, even physically) because of it. dw knew that this could kill her, and that her relationship with her parents couldn't continue like that. There were so many varied fears.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

For parents who truly love their children and will not stop that love no.matter.what then there is nothing to fear in this regard.


Hah! Tell that to the many who suffer in silence year after year after year rather than coming out. I don't mean to be flippant, but the fear is there.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

but as a parent you can still love your child and yet disagree with your child's choices, no?


That's the problem. Because dw and I know it is not a choice for us. But you don't. And neither did her parents, at first. Which is where the danger lies.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

I would expect my child to handle her sexuality within the context of our religion--regardless of her sexual "orientation"--and I would be disappointed in her decision if she did not, whether that was choosing to engage in a homosexual relationship or having sex out wedlock or looking at pornography, etc.


If it is any comfort to you, there are many people of a wide variety of faiths-- including but not limited to Christians-- who do not believe the same things you do. As I am in ministry, I also hope that she leads a life of faith, and that this influences her every _decision_. But being g/l/b/t is not a _decision_. And there are many varied understandings about the great scriptures of many faiths in regard to same-gender love.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

As to losing one's self-identity because one is not free to act upon one's sexual desires . . . I just simply do not buy this reasoning. There are lots of religious heterosexual people in this world who, because of their faith, are able to sublimate their sexual feelings and remain happy and single and fulfilled, and loving toward people in a platonic way.


Well (for other reasons), I haven't had sex in a really, really, really long time. And I am very happy and fulfilled. So if that was all it was about, I could have married a man and been happy and fulfilled too. But that isn't what it is about.

I am not sure I can say it better than it has already been said:

Quote:



_Acting on my homosexuality means:

1) I have someone in my life I love enough that sex or no sex is essentially a non-issue.

2) Having the family I have now. Not just DH but DD and DS too.

3) Not feeling guilty when I want to be close to DH whether it be emotionally or physically.

Saying people can be happy without sex, is different from saying you can be happy without acting on your homosexuality. Saying they are the same is ignoring the emotional aspects of a same-sex relationship. _


Again, perhaps it would eliminate your confusion if you thought in terms of something more accurate like "affectional orientation" rather than "sexual orientation."

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

I think taking control over one's life fully (including sexual desires) is difficult and most people don't want to make the effort and it makes them feel better by removing the responsibility off of their shoulders. As I have previously mentioned, I have no qualms with anyone who feels s/he is homosexual, but under my religion, it is the act of living out that homosexuality that is wrong. The orientation is separate from the acts chosen to be done because of that orientation.


Because I personally have known a number of people who chose to live a life without love and without real intimacy (note: I'm not saying sex, even, but real intimacy), out of _self-hatred and shame and fear_, and in at least a couple of cases, religious self-punishment for one's own affectional orientation, I have witnessed enough to know that it is never a life I would want for my child. It is really one of the most tragic things I have ever witnessed, and it definitely is not healthy.

I think you are also ignoring a lot of science in your reasoning.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

One problem I've seen in the last few years is the association of any negative feelings toward homosexuality with "hate speech." People tend to see this as "all or nothing," "black and white," "if you're not for us then you're against us." I've yet to think of any other situation in which there is no middle ground allowed, except for perhaps abortion. Surely people can disagree with someone's lifestyle and choices and still seek to love and befriend them, and that goes for both sides of the fence!


Again, the problem here is that you are talking about choice, which is far from the scientific and anecdotal evidence of the vast majority.

No, you can never be a true friend to me-- not a real friend with real sharing between us-- because a true friend accepts and loves me not just in spite of who I am inherently, including who I am genetically and biologically. I have had some people over the years claim we were friends, when I had to hide my love for my wife from them. They weren't real friends. I love and feel intimate primarily with women, and that isn't something I can change in any healthy way.

If you were my parent, there would always be a part of me you could never know, never touch...a part of me that would always be in hiding from you. And our relationship would never, ever be the same. I really hope for your child's sake, and for yours, that she is indeed not l/b/or t.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

It's bizarre to me how quickly the conversation jumps from "I disagree with the practice of homosexuality" to "You are homophobic."


I'll simply second what has already been said:

Quote:



_Homosexuality is not a choice. It doesn't matter what your religion says. And no, it's not discrimination for me to say that. Religion has said (among many other things) that the world is flat, that the sun circles the earth, that brown skin is a punishment from Satan, and that heaven is up and hell is down. So when religion tells you homosexuality is a choice, a voluntary act of behavior, please please please know that this is also just as wrong. It isn't discrimination for me to tell you the earth is round, even though your religion may, at some point, have taught it is flat. It's a simple fact. Homosexuality is not sinful, and saying it's ok to be gay as long as you don't act on it is just splitting semantics while cloaking the argument in passivity. . . .It's not a choice. It's not a 'behavior option'. It's WHO THEY ARE. And it breaks my heart that people still believe otherwise_.


and

Quote:



_Luxperpetua, you're saying that people shouldn't have the same right to express their love for each other in a mutually pleasing, positive manner because of their chromosomes?

I was very ill for a while, and unable to make love with my husband. It was terrible to not be able to connect with him in that way.

And, also, I can argue semantics with the best of them:

ho·mo·pho·bia : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty :
1 : the quality or state of being homosexual
2 : erotic activity with another of the same sex

So, yes, disliking "practicing homosexuality" is the same thing as being homophobic_.


and

Quote:



_I do think that it is harmful to say that you disagree with someone's sexual orientation. Homosexuality exists not just in humans, and anyone with any sense knows that no one would "choose" a lifestyle with the consequences that homosexuality, unfortunately, can have - hatred, discrimination, estrangement. If it were under a person's control, wouldn't they choose the easy way? We love who we love. There's about as much control over it as the color of your skin.

I'm sorry if any of this is confrontational, but disagreeing with someone's "choice" to be homosexual is like disagreeing with someone's "choice" to be black, and it really, really hurts me, even though I am heterosexual_.


and most of all...

Quote:



_I think it is homophobic to say that gay people should have to go through life without loving intimate relationships. It's unfair. Some people can be happy single forever, whether straight or gay, and that's fine if those people choose to be alone. And even people who haven't found someone at least have hope that they someday will. But to be told from the outside that they have to be alone, and forever with no hope, is just wrong and has to create a lot of lonely and unhappy people in the world. I can't imagine telling a child of mine something like that_.


I am so sad reading your posts, luxperpetua.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

I've been friends with many homosexuals over the years, as I have been friends with people who have also had children out of wedlock and some who have actively engaged in pornography (to continue the example I mentioned earlier). In all of these cases, the friendships that I have lost once my views became known were the homosexual relationships. The other two groups were willing to at least "agree to disagree."


That's because having a child out of wedlock and using pornography are choices, and they are not intimately tied to identity in the same way that affectional orientation is.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua*

And it's also unapologetic religious discrimination.


No, it's not. First of all, does every person who shares your faith share your belief in this regard? Knowing the way dw's parents have learned and grown to accept and embrace who dw does, and having spent my life engaged in ongoing interfaith dialogue, my bet is no! Absolutely not. If you looked for them, you would find those whose take on what your holy book says about this is very different from your own.

Second of all, the abolotionists who worked against slavery-- even while religious people claimed that slavery and the superiority of their own race was justified religiously-- were not religious bigots by virtue of calling out racism. They were simply right. And eventually, these same faiths came to understand their holy books very differently than they did during eras of slavery. Even people of faith can experience newfound wisdom.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lotusdebi*


I lost a friend about nine years ago. He was 18 and he committed suicide. He was dealing with the possibility of coming out to his evangelical Christian parents. It was a huge struggle for him. A parent's love and acceptance is so incredibly important - even to an adult. My friend's parents believed homosexuality to be a sin. He never came out to them completely. And, I guess he decided that dying was preferable to living without his parents ever truly accepting him and loving him as he was.










lotusdebi, I couldn't close without saying I am sorry for your loss.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SiValleySteph* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honolula*
Did they use an egg donor?

The penguins adopt a second egg from another family that could not take care of two eggs at once.

It's a good book.

My 4 year old has asked if boys can marry boys. I don't think it's odd to talk about. We said yes. He did ask if two boys can have a baby. I was a little stumped on that one - we went with, yes, but it's a little harder.

Sorry, that was a bad pun.
I know the story, and I remember all the hubbub about it when it first came out. Because religious fundamentalists just can't stomach "indoctrination", did you know?


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honolula* 

Did they use an egg donor?

Yes. When all of the penguins were making nests and laying their eggs, these two made a nest and placed a rock in it, and then followed all of the other behaviors associated with having an egg. There was an extra egg from some other penguins, and the zoo keeper replaced the rock the penguins had put in their nest with the extra egg. They sat on it and it hatched and they raised their chick.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

Sorry - I posted before I read all the other posts in which people explained the story!

When I bought the book, I was at the cash register of the book store paying for another book when I saw a stack of books with a sign saying something to the effect of "Most controversial book of 2007" (or whenever). I asked the guy ringing me up, who I would guess was gay and in his late teens/early twenties, what the most controversial book was - that it couldn't be a kids book about penguins, maybe they had moved the books and not changed the sign? He said, "No - it is that book. I guess people just can't stand gay penguins!" I laughed out loud. It was ridiculous from so many perspectives (not to mention his delivery being pretty funny). I mean, the idea of anyone disliking any penguins?! The idea that this story, a true story about true animal behavior, could be seen as harmful? The idea that the penguins were making a choice on this and not just following their biological instincts?

What it really made me think about, though, is that I live in a little bubble of the Bay Area where things are supposedly liberal, accepting and progressive. What I have come to think is that a lot of people are comfortable with progressive ideas as long as they don't really touch their lives. I think that a lot of people, who outwardly project an opinion on either side of an issue, recognize that they have a lot of questioning to do. They would like to engage in a dialogue. While my first reaction may be similar to the person who said we aren't living in the 50s, I admire that the people who are not secure in their opinions on these things are able to question and reach out to others. I think it is an uncomfortable process and can expose people as being "less than" in an area (SF Bay Area or MDC) where it is hip to be seen as progressive. I grew up in a religious home, attending all religious schools. I remember a conversation I had with a roommate right after college about the idea of gay people being married. I was completely against the idea - the whole conversation was kind of shocking to me as it was so foreign. It went entirely against the core of what I was taught was right or "normal". In my mind 30s, my ideas on these things have completely changed. But, it was partly through discussions with others, and seeing such a different perspective, that my thoughts on this changed. So, while it may bristle at first, I think there is value in this kind of discussion on MDC. Some people are questioning these things for whatever reason, and genuine responses will help them find answers.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LuxPerpetua* 
but not everyone who disagrees with the practice of homosexuality "hates" homosexuals or wishes them ill and not all homosexuals endure hatred to the same degree.

But wishing for someone to supress their instincts and live a life without the beauty of relationships (if that's what they want/need) is wishing them ill. You're wishing a horrible thing for those people.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
As long as they have partners who love and respect them, I'll be happy.

I worry about this more than them being gay! There are so many horror stories out there, I am worried about him finding the right one, whatever that may be.


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## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

I can't fathom being anything other than 100% accepting. I have no experience with my DD but when my brother came out, I was just relieved for him that he no longer felt like he needed to keep such a big part of himself hidden.


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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

I haven't had the chance/don't have time to read the thread but I want to answer the OP.

If my DD came and told me she was a lesbian, it would be fine. I hope I raise my DD in a way that it doesn't have to be some huge dooms-day type conversation. Why should I assume she is interested in males?

But, if it did come up in a "Mom I need to tell you something" type way I would just thank her for letting me know, let her know that it didn't change our relationship and that she should feel 100% comfortable inviting her partner over as she would any friend. Dating rules would be the same. I would also ask her if she needed my help with anything. Such as if she felt like she was being harassed by anyone or wanted protection from certain family members who are homophobic.

I really want DD growing up knowing that she has to follow her heart and she loves who she loves, and there is nothing to apologize for in that regard.


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## honolula (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadebug* 
What I have come to think is that a lot of people are comfortable with progressive ideas as long as they don't really touch their lives.

Right. Well, we're the generation who grew up with the "teaching tolerance" campaigns in our schools and on TV, and that's not condescending or anything







. It seemed awfully progressive at the time, though. And it was, in the literate sense. It brought progress. But slow change is cold comfort when you're gay, you know, _today._


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## uccellina (Jan 26, 2006)

When I came out to my parents, my mother cried for three days straight. I asked her why, and her reasons were twofold: 1) She was afraid I'd have a "hard life" and 2) She wanted grandchildren. Well, all we can do about 1) is fight to end homophobia and discrimination, and 2) Done! *dusts off hands*

Now ask me how embarrassing it was to have to come out AGAIN when I fell in love with a man! Um . . . oops?

Point of all of this being: My kids will fall in love with whomever they fall in love with, and it won't matter to me at all.

(Best exchange I ever had when coming out the first time: ME: Grandma, I'm in love with a woman. GRANDMA: Is she Jewish?)


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## Deacon's Mama (Jan 7, 2009)

I think I'd be a bit sad at first, not because of DS's sexual orientation but the thought of possibly not having biological grandchildren. Not that I wouldn't love an adopted baby as much, but you KWIM? I wouldn't be upset at all over him being gay. It's a part of who he is and I love him.


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## Thao (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:

As to losing one's self-identity because one is not free to act upon one's sexual desires . . . I just simply do not buy this reasoning. There are lots of religious heterosexual people in this world who, because of their faith, are able to sublimate their sexual feelings and remain happy and single and fulfilled, and loving toward people in a platonic way.
Lux, I hope you do not feel like you are getting ganged up, but I am another one who used to genuinely believe the same way you do and have since changed. I would ask you to reconsider what you are saying.

There is really no comparison to be made between a person who chooses to forgo sexual relationships to be a priest or maybe because they don't feel they have the need for it, and a person who chooses to forgo sexual relationships because they believe that the feelings they are having, the love and attraction and desire to build a life together that they feel for another person, is disgusting and sinful in the eyes of their God. Surely you can see that?

In response to the OP, I'd have no problem at all if my dd turned out to be gay. Sometimes I've wished I was, because living with the opposite sex can be really challenging LOL! Alas, I am strictly hetero and, just like a gay person, can't do anything to change that







.


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

Being told by my children that they were gay wouldn't even cause me to bat an eyelid.

Now if they did something horrific like murder someone,THAT I would have a really hard time getting my head around.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deacon's Mama* 
I think I'd be a bit sad at first, not because of DS's sexual orientation but the thought of possibly not having biological grandchildren. Not that I wouldn't love an adopted baby as much, but you KWIM? I wouldn't be upset at all over him being gay. It's a part of who he is and I love him.

My dad has a biological grandchild.


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## daisymama12 (Jul 2, 2006)

Unconditional love for my boys if they're born gay, or heck, even if they choose to be gay! It's all good.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama* 
If being gay is the biggest litmus test of inconditional love you can imagine you are lucky. I can imagine things that are genuinely horrifying... and I believe I would love my child through any of them.

Yep.

My ds has told me that he thinks he's gay or "1/2 gay" and I wasn't the slightest bit upset. He's said he changed his mind recently and I was equally neutral on the subject. I think it's very hard for a boy to confront those feelings and worry about being accepted by their friends. My dd "dates" both boys and girls and is more out to her peer group but is not out to me (I have found notes and stuff cleaning out her bag). It's just not something she wants to talk to me about and that's fine too. It's their body and their life either way.


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## Deacon's Mama (Jan 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
My dad has a biological grandchild.









I know it's completely possible, it was just my initial reaction to the question. I know some gay couples who chose not to have children because they worry about how the rest of the world would treat their child. I also know straight couples who have just decided they didn't want children at all. I have no guaranteed grandchildren


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## Tangled Hill (Jun 6, 2008)

That 1954 comment keeps coming back to mind....







:


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am returning this thread as I think the discussion is important however please be very mindful of the User Agreement.

We do not tolerate _any type_ of discrimination in the discussions, including but not limited to racism, heterosexism, classism, religious bigotry, or discrimination toward the disabled.


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## Channelle (May 14, 2008)

There is NOTHING my children could do to make me stop loving them or even love them less. There are very few things that would even make me feel disappointed in them (committing a crime, hurting someone), but never ever ever would them choosing to love someone E.V.E.R. make me disappointed. It doesn't matter what gender the person is, if they chose to love, I would be happy they found someone to love and were comfortable enough in themselves to make this self-discovery.0

I'm very lucky to have a partner that agrees with this. He and I discussed it, and we are absolutely fine with however our children turned out. We even plan on encouraging our children to explore themselves without setting gender roles or restrictions on them. Most of the time, they wear gender neutral clothes, my eight year old until last year had a special baby doll he took with him almost everywhere and up until like age 6 he would dress up (sometimes in a fireman outfit, oftentimes as a princess), wear whatever he wanted, even hair clippies if he so wanted. He takes piano and harp, plays baseball and football, does ballet and gymnastics, and decorates his room however he wants (for years it was pink and purple dora the explorer, now it's transformers). I take him and my daughter with me when I get mani/pedis and have their nails done too (they have really rugged cuticles, so they get their nails healthy, but if they wanted paint, I would not blink an eye). My daughter will have the exact same options, as well as any other children we have.


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## Channelle (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Theoretica* 
Wow I am so sorry to hear that! They are really missing out on your family, aren't they? I know someone who has said they'd be ok if their daughter was gay...but not if their son was









I worked with a girl a year ago who had two girls and was pregnant again, and said she prayed she'd have another girl because she hated little boys, and she'd be terrified that her boy would turn out gay...







I said, well little girls could turn out gay too, and she said her daughters were perfect (yeah perfect hellions), and they wouldn't dare be gay, besides more men were gay than women, and gay men were gross. I really disliked her. I told her about how loose we were with Jordan, and didn't care if he dressed like a girl, became gay, whatever, and left her standing like this.







lol. (oh she ended up having a baby boy...poor baby boy)


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Sorry, are biological grandchildren somehow of greater worth? (These questions are *not* directed at those who are anti-adoption, who I am well aware would be sad should their children grow to choose adoption...) Would you be equally sad if your child decided to adopt a child rather than give birth?

I know where that impulse comes from...oh, isn't it fun to see Great Aunt Ida's quirky hand gestures in little Johnny, oh, it's so cool to see grandma's eyes in little Betty's eyes. It's quite primal to want to spread one's seed, so to speak. But how sad for kids like mine if this is a generally accepted attitude...the attitude that yes, it's joyful to have adopted grandchildren, but too bad they couldn't have been bio grandchildren. Ick!

There is nothing inherently less joyful for my parents in being grandparents to my children vs. grandparents to my (bio) nephews. My kids are _wicked awesome_, and no grandparent should ever be sad to have them...they should (and do!) feel like lucky ducks!


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
Sorry, are biological grandchildren somehow of greater worth?









:

And how come the whole "bio grandkids" thing always gets brought up when discussing homosexuality, but not in relation to children's possible future infertility/use of donor eggs or sperm, decision to adopt, or just a plain desire not to procreate? Why is it always "teh gays" who are threatening to ruin family lineage?


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## Amberoxy (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:

wicked awesome
Sierra, you must live in New Englad??? I use "wicked" all the time too









I'm fine with my children being gay, bi, trans etc...(don't know if I got them all.) I will love them the same no matter what. No dissapointment, no wishing for what might have been, no hoping they will change their mind...I just want my kids to feel comfortable telling me and to know that I feel this way. It is my job to make sure they know this.

Quote:

With that said, in our religious faith we believe that to act upon homosexual feelings (or polygamous or bisexual or transexual feelings, etc., for that matter) would be immoral.
I feel like something is missing when "religious beliefs" are used to explain a behaviour or personal belief. I am not familiar with any religion where everyone that practices that religion truly believes everything that particular religion teaches. Within some religions there is complete disagreement within those that practice it about what the religion really teaches. I think that the teachings of a religion that a person decides to follow are really that person's beliefs. For me to be able to maybe understand (not agree - understand) that decision, I would need to know why they chose to follow it - outside of it being part of the religion.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:

Sorry, are biological grandchildren somehow of greater worth? (These questions are *not* directed at those who are anti-adoption, who I am well aware would be sad should their children grow to choose adoption...) Would you be equally sad if your child decided to adopt a child rather than give birth?

I know where that impulse comes from...oh, isn't it fun to see Great Aunt Ida's quirky hand gestures in little Johnny, oh, it's so cool to see grandma's eyes in little Betty's eyes. It's quite primal to want to spread one's seed, so to speak. But how sad for kids like mine if this is a generally accepted attitude...the attitude that yes, it's joyful to have adopted grandchildren, but too bad they couldn't have been bio grandchildren. Ick!

There is nothing inherently less joyful for my parents in being grandparents to my children vs. grandparents to my (bio) nephews. My kids are wicked awesome, and no grandparent should ever be sad to have them...they should (and do!) feel like lucky ducks
Haven't you heard the news... there's not way for a homosexual to have children of their own... so some says.

I think it's ingraned in our subconciouse that gay = no kids. Those like Deacon'smom who would have "no bio grandkids" as a first thought are usually just reacting to the moment and realize after they get a moment to think that it doesn't really matter.


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

As long as I eventually have grand-kids (bio or otherwise) I think i'd be fine with it.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Haven't read the replies . . .

Other than being concerned about any sort of hatred they would face, I really wouldn't have an issue with it.

My dad, however, would probably not have much of a relationship with them. He's already warned me that by letting ds1 take tap dance, I'm "exposing to to the gay world."


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Here's a great book to share with your kids about unconditional love:

http://www.amazon.com/No-Matter-What...3204043&sr=1-1

And I just have to say, because of this thread, I made sure to tell my 11 yo. dd that I don't care whom she falls in love with--girl or guy--as long as that person is NICE!!


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *uccellina* 

(Best exchange I ever had when coming out the first time: ME: Grandma, I'm in love with a woman. GRANDMA: Is she Jewish?)

That is about the best response to someone coming out that I have ever heard.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

If my daughter were to tell me she is gay, bi, whatever....I honestly don't think I'd bat an eye. My best friend is gay and I am well aware that non traditional couples (or singles!) have/adopt children everyday so this news would certainly not take grandchildren out of the picture for us. I plan on raising my daughter to know, explicitly, that whomever she chooses to love will be just dandy with us as long as that person is loving, caring, honest and all those other wonderful qualities you wish for your child to have in a partner.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

i will love my children with all my heart and soul no matter what, always.
if they were to be gay, what of it? we are who we are. i would feel a deep sadness because of the intolerance and negativity they may find, since unfortunately, that exists in lots of places for people who are gay. beyond that, as long as they were enjoying their lives, and finding their joyi would be full of happiness and support for them.


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## Deacon's Mama (Jan 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Haven't you heard the news... there's not way for a homosexual to have children of their own... so some says.

I think it's ingraned in our subconciouse that gay = no kids. Those like Deacon'smom who would have "no bio grandkids" as a first thought are usually just reacting to the moment and realize after they get a moment to think that it doesn't really matter.

Honestly, now I'm wishing I had never spoken up at all. I went with my gut reaction. I'm not saying I would love him less if he didn't give me grandkids. I'm not saying that if he chose to adopt I wouldn't love those kids any less.

It really was my initial reaction, I truly didn't mean to offend anyone, or imply that biological kids are somehow more important or deserve more love than adopted kids. I'm just going to quit because I don't feel like I can express what I feel very well about this.

I'm sorry


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Really, it's a major non-issue. So long as they find a partner who is loving, and respects them, that's fine by me. And yes, I'd still hope for grandbabies. lol

Now if my kids came home saying they were Tories...well, then I might have a stroke. lol


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deacon's Mama* 
Honestly, now I'm wishing I had never spoken up at all. I went with my gut reaction. I'm not saying I would love him less if he didn't give me grandkids. I'm not saying that if he chose to adopt I wouldn't love those kids any less.

It really was my initial reaction, I truly didn't mean to offend anyone, or imply that biological kids are somehow more important or deserve more love than adopted kids. I'm just going to quit because I don't feel like I can express what I feel very well about this.

I'm sorry

It's not an uncommon reaction but I think as people see more queers parenting that will lessen. When my ex-boyfriend came out to his mom her first thought was "How is Kama taking this?" (She was a really sweet woman.) Her second thought was "I had so hoped to have grandchildren." Well, my ex and his husband have two girls and she was thrilled with the whole situation. She couldn't have asked for a better son in law. He was unbelievably wonderful when she was dying of cancer last year. I think a lot of people have fear of what is unfamiliar to them, which is probably normal. It's what they do with that fear that is troubling.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deacon's Mama* 
Honestly, now I'm wishing I had never spoken up at all. I went with my gut reaction. I'm not saying I would love him less if he didn't give me grandkids. I'm not saying that if he chose to adopt I wouldn't love those kids any less.

It really was my initial reaction, I truly didn't mean to offend anyone, or imply that biological kids are somehow more important or deserve more love than adopted kids. I'm just going to quit because I don't feel like I can express what I feel very well about this.

I'm sorry

Well I understood.

We don't think about all the alternative ways to have kids when some tells you they are gay. Like I said, its a social construt. The fact that you have to "come out" is a social construct. One I never really had to deal with. Though DH has. My dad just sort of figured it out and reminded me that he prefers it when I tell him I'm dating someone, but then I never told him when I started dating a girl when I was 14.

My frist comment was directed at the general population who think, even with all the options available, gay people still can't have kids for what ever reason. Not at you.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jessieann* 
A tough question I know, but how do you think you would react if your child came out to you as a homosexual? I personally can't speak from experience, but I've been thinking about it a lot recently. I know in my heart that I would be accepting no matter what, but it's so hard to say how you would react to something until you experience it firsthand. Thoughts?

I would wish my child all the happiness in the world. And I pray that when the time comes, he will be able to get married, have a family and feel safe being his authentic self whether that means being gay, het, or somewhere in between.


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