# Pesticide freak out - am I over-the-top?



## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

The pesticide guy was just here. We have a black widow problem (otherwise I'd never agree to it!) so we get the outside of our house done.

- I opened the garage door and didn't realize the door had just been sprayed... when I walked thru it some of the spray dripped on me.

- As I was talking to the guy, DD stepped outside and stood on the porch in wet pesticide with bare feet. Ugh! As soon as I saw her I took her inside, put her in the shower and soaped off her feet. Then I showered.

I'm freaked. I hate pesticides and have found it nearly impossible to find good information on their safety.

I asked the guy about what exactly he was spraying and he told me some brand name but I had a hard time understanding his accent. Of course they all tell me it is very safe. I'm hesitating on calling their office for more info because 1. they all say "it is safe" and 2. last year I flipped when they started spraying INSIDE the house when I was pregnant and now our file is flagged that I freak







:

So how worried would you be about DD stepping in it? Or the fact that I got dripped on and I'm nursing a baby? Or do you know where I could get more info on this?

UGH! I hate this!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I wouldn't freak, if for no other reason than it's over and done with and you can't undo what already happened.

I'd be a lot more concerned if somebody accidentally injested pesticides. You CAN absorb things through the skin, but that tends to take a while. By washing the pesticides off immediately after touching them, you've limited your exposure as much as possible.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Why are you spraying for black widows? I grew up in black widow country and we never worried about them. I never worried about them with my kids playing outside. My kids wont touch spiders anyway. You just need to stay away from wood piles or other places they might "nest." But I would much rather deal with the random black widow than have them spray. In all my years growing up in the central valley of California I have only seen them in the house once or twice. They don't like to come in your house.

I think if I were you I would learn more about the spiders. Where they like to live. Wearing gloves when working outside and checking children's toys and occasionally for the spiders before I would spray for them.

As for the pesticides being safe.. well DDT was once thought to be safe too.


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## tinybutterfly (May 31, 2004)

You've done what you can, washed it off.









You could maybe call poisen control. Even though they mostly deal with ingested poisens, they might know about skin contact exposures, too.

You would need to find out from the company exactly what they sprayed with, though.

Also, spraying for black widows doesn't make a lot of sense. They are not runners like wolf spiders. If they don't travel and cross the poisen, it's not doing anything to kill them.









I do understand being worried, though. We had brown recluse spiders in our house in one town and we did spray for awhile, but it was just to make me feel better as they aren't runners either.

Good luck.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

I should add that the few times we found black widows in the house was right after they had sprayed for them outside. The spraying chased them in the house.


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Well, I did a lot of research on black widows before deciding to spray. The general agreement was that you can't actually kill the spiders but you can eliminate their food source.

It wouldn't be such a big deal to me except that we routinely see dozens of them. They are in every corner of the outside of our house and in our garage. And we have two little children who are too young to understand that they need to steer clear of some places.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I should add that the few times we found black widows in the house was right after they had sprayed for them outside. The spraying chased them in the house.

OP is going to be having nightmare's because of this post







I laugh...but only because I would be having nightmares if I was her







:

OP, I think you did fine. If you bathed in it, it might cause serious problems--but a few drips or your dd standing in it? I'm sure everything will be okay. And I don't blame you one bit for spraying. *shudders*


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

While I agree, pesticide is GROSS, I don't blame you for spraying either, YUCK to spiders, esp. black widows.

I agree what's done its done, move on and forget it ever happened!

Hope the spiders decrease and your comfort level increases! <HUGS>


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

I wouldn't worry. Sad but true, you've both been exposed to a lot worse than that before and will be again.


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## SilvanaRose (Feb 19, 2009)

I gave this advice to someone yesterday about an ant problem. PLEASE look into getting *Food-Grade Diatomaceous Earth* the next time you ever have a bug problem. It is by far the safest most effective substance for getting rid of pests.

http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html

http://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html

Some links I googled for more info. Please read up on it. I cannot recommend this stuff enough.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilvanaRose* 
I gave this advice to someone yesterday about an ant problem. PLEASE look into getting *Food-Grade Diatomaceous Earth* the next time you ever have a bug problem. It is by far the safest most effective substance for getting rid of pests.

http://www.dirtworks.net/Diatomaceous-Earth.html

http://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html

Some links I googled for more info. Please read up on it. I cannot recommend this stuff enough.

I can't see that working with Black Widows. I once found one in a bug zapper so I plugged it in, (what else could I do?) That thing zapped for 30 freaking minutes, I kid you not!


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## SilvanaRose (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I can't see that working with Black Widows. I once found one in a bug zapper so I plugged it in, (what else could I do?) That thing zapped for 30 freaking minutes, I kid you not!

It works on any insect because it actually rips them to shreds. It's like stepping on a million razor blades and it slices through their exoskeleton and dehydrates them. It most certainly works









lol @ the bug zapper...that's gross lol


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi mama,
Here's my 2 cents, and the fact that we have HUGE wolf spiders in my area (house) not black widow.
Instead of spraying pesticides, we spray a mixture of vinegar and citrus oil around the house. Spiders dislike citrus, and the smell keeps them away. I spray outisde the house about once a month, and inside every two weeks. Since I've started spraying the # of spiders inside my house went down from finding 6 or more a day to one every few months. Also, the spray doesn't kill them, and let's them live peacefully outside.
I don't know if this works on BW spiders or not, but it's been a lifesaver for me.
~maddymama


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## tinybutterfly (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
Well, I did a lot of research on black widows before deciding to spray. The general agreement was that you can't actually kill the spiders but you can eliminate their food source.

It wouldn't be such a big deal to me except that we routinely see dozens of them. They are in every corner of the outside of our house and in our garage. And we have two little children who are too young to understand that they need to steer clear of some places.

Ah, I never thought about it eliminating their food source.

Yea, my older son was 2 or 3 when we had spider problems. It is scary when they are small. I know I worried a lot.


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## mamatoakd (Jun 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maddymama* 
Hi mama,
Here's my 2 cents, and the fact that we have HUGE wolf spiders in my area (house) not black widow.
Instead of spraying pesticides, we spray a mixture of vinegar and citrus oil around the house. Spiders dislike citrus, and the smell keeps them away. I spray outisde the house about once a month, and inside every two weeks. Since I've started spraying the # of spiders inside my house went down from finding 6 or more a day to one every few months. Also, the spray doesn't kill them, and let's them live peacefully outside.
I don't know if this works on BW spiders or not, but it's been a lifesaver for me.
~maddymama

Where do you spray inside the house? We get lots of spiders (black widows included) and are pretty used to them but our guests get freaked out! I'd be afraid of spraying any kind of oil on or around the furniture/carpets... I'd like to hear more about your method.

We used to spray outside and stopped when I realized that we were killing all the bees and ants and making the spiders angry. They would seem to come out of the woodwork as soon as the bug spray guy came. We originally started spraying to get rid of the ants but we also later found that ants eat termites which are a much worse pest!

I also hated that we were spraying chemicals in our backyard where our children play. My DD and I were playing outside in the grass one morning and came back in the house and were itchy all over. It was the spray!!!

The black widows really freak me out especially with a toddler who touches everything but my fear of long-term health problems down the line is even scarier.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

Just curious.. where do y'all with the spider issues live?

**so I can make sure to NEVER, EVER go there**









and op- I think you two will be fine.. just wash, rinse and repeat


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## maddymama (Jan 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoakd* 
Where do you spray inside the house? We get lots of spiders (black widows included) and are pretty used to them but our guests get freaked out! I'd be afraid of spraying any kind of oil on or around the furniture/carpets... I'd like to hear more about your method.

Hi Mama,
Ok.... I spray outside all around the base of the house, doors and window frames, around the garage doors, etc. I got a gallon sprayer and use that.... very easy. It takes less than 15 minutes start to finish for me.
For inside, I spray around doors and window and where the spiders seem to congregate. Oh, and we also re-weather stripped a few doors and windows which seems to help.
For the spray I use a cup or two of white vinegar and 10 drops of essential lemon oil (or whatever citrus oil I can find).... shake well and spray. The house smells like vinegar for a hour or two, then you can't even tell I've sprayed.
Our insect guy gave me the idea to spray with vinegar and lemon oil, instead of spraying with pesticides. He said all spiders hate citrus, so it repells them from the inside of the house but doesn't kill them. I didn't ask about BWs, though.
For the poster who asked... I live out in the country in Texas. We are in a small subdivision surrounded by farmland.
Good luck,
~maddymama


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks for all the great posts. I'm going to have to try that citrus/vinegar concoction. ANYTHING would be better than pesticides. But I had to do SOMETHING because I wasn't sleeping at night because I was so worried about my babies running into a spider.

We're in the southeast, in a fairly warm climate, and we were told that any house here will have black widows - just they mostly stay out of sight.


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
OP is going to be having nightmare's because of this post







I laugh...but only because I would be having nightmares if I was her







:











True, a comment about the spray scaring the spiders into the house COULD give me nightmares... but I've been living with them so long I'm kind of used to the occasional anxious day or two, and then I just have to let go and get used to it.

I've put those sticky pad things all over the inside of my house. (The glue pads that are intended to catch bugs etc.) I put them down hoping to catch the occasional bw visitor. But I've actually seen spiders walk right across them, like how we'd walk across a sticky floor... stick..stick..stick... but it didn't slow them down one bit!! At least it catches all those nasty earwigs -- ew! --

I'm new to the southeast so this has all been a lot to get used to!!


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vegemamato* 
Just curious.. where do y'all with the spider issues live?

**so I can make sure to NEVER, EVER go there**










Spiders are EVERYWHERE. There's no escaping them. Muahahahahahaha!


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

I have done a ton of research on spiders, particularly black widows and brown recluses. We moved to an area where we have both and I freaked because we had them while I was pregnant. So what I did was read and read and finally came to the conclusion that pesticides were not the answer. First of all you can't kill the Black Widow with pesticides and yes it is true that you will chase the bugs inside if they are in your garage or around your house. I know you want to eliminate their food source, but the only way to do this is to continuously spray pesticides for the rest of your lives. The risk outweighs the benefit especially when you are exposed to everyday toxins which you cannot control. I have decided to stop killing bugs unless I see and actual bad spider I will kill it. Otherwise I let spiders live because they eat bugs, which helps eliminate a food source and because certain spiders will eat other dangerous spiders. Also dirt daubers and other wasps eat spiders. They never bother us. Having bird feeders helps control the bug population because birds eat bugs and hang around your house when you have feeders. I let the spiders live, except the dangerous ones and only kill those by hand. I keep my son out of dangerous areas where there might be a dangerous spider. Also, I would just learn the recognize the symptoms of a dangerous spider bite and deal with it when it happens. While it is a pain in the butt, it isn't likely that anyone would die from a black widow bite unless extremely immune compromised. ALso, whenever I bring anything in from the garage, I check it first to make sure it is spider free.


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## Jeannettea (Apr 2, 2006)

For a natural way to get rid of the spiders' food source, think about installing bat houses. Did you know that one bat eats over 700 insects EVERY SINGLE NIGHT? They are amazing little creatures. They will not attack you or dive bomb your hair or anything like that; they are just little bug eating machines (I student taught in science and had to write themed units and one was on - you guessed it - bats, and the kids and I learned so much and just loved it!).









Anyway, the bat houses are fairly simple to construct (just google build a bat house), and you can get pretty much everything you need to build it from your local lumber store's "castoff box" (this is where they put bent pieces of wood, little blocks of wood from pieces they've cut, etc.). Usually anything in the castoff box is free, but ask first to make sure. Also you can usually have the lumber store make any cuts for you for a small charge (here it's 25 cents per cut).

Hope this helps!!!


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

Jeannetta,

I had learned about this awhile back when I was searching for ways to rid myself of spiders and bugs naturally. I read that the bat house has to be really high for them to house in there. Do you know if this is true? I can't put one on a pole due to HOA rules and my house doesn't go high enough according to the info I found online.

Tonya


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

If you really want to know more about the pesticide, call the company, ask for the brand name, look up the brand name on the web to find out the active ingredients, then type the following into Google "<active ingredient name> RED" The first hit should be the US EPA web site describing the human health risk assessment that EPA did to register the pesticide. It will tell you what the risks are. There is usually a fact sheet written in plain English to help you understand the risks.

And for the PP with the comment on DDT...







The risk assessments performed to support pesticide registration today are nothing like what was performed in the past. They are far more rigorous, and the risks are well understood. Pesticides are not "safe," they carry risks that are well-studied, but they are still used as a tradeoff between one risk an another (e.g., in some areas the risk from West Nile virus is about equal to the risk from spraying mosquitoes to reduce the risk of West Nile). Anyhow, DDT is a risk for birds, not people.

Many of the pesticides used now are derived from plants (e.g., chrysanthemum) and are much less toxic than pesticides used in the past. Hopefully this is the case for the product used on your house.

(I am an environmental risk assessor, and I do not work for pesticide companies. I do like to set the record straight when there is undue panic over small exposures like this...)


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
(I am an environmental risk assessor, and I do not work for pesticide companies. I do like to set the record straight when there is undue panic over small exposures like this...)

I think it is important to note that this is not a small exposure considering that if they want to eliminate the bug source with pesticides, that the exposure will be constant and ongoing as long as they use pesticides. I think it is important to look for more natural ways if possible. Not to mention that we endure a daily toxic load that we really have no control over. So wherever we can control toxin exposure we should.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
And for the PP with the comment on DDT...







The risk assessments performed to support pesticide registration today are nothing like what was performed in the past. They are far more rigorous, and the risks are well understood. Pesticides are not "safe," they carry risks that are well-studied, but they are still used as a tradeoff between one risk an another (e.g., in some areas the risk from West Nile virus is about equal to the risk from spraying mosquitoes to reduce the risk of West Nile). *Anyhow, DDT is a risk for birds, not people.*

You have got to be freaking kidding me. That sentence right there negates everything you have just said since DDT has been known to poison humans, and some believe mimic polio symptoms.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

The scientists reported that DDT may have a variety of human health effects, including reduced fertility, genital birth defects, breast cancer, diabetes and damage to developing brains. Its metabolite, DDE, can block male hormones.
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.o...as-last-resort

Dated one month ago.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
If you really want to know more about the pesticide, call the company, ask for the brand name, look up the brand name on the web to find out the active ingredients, then type the following into Google "<active ingredient name> RED" The first hit should be the US EPA web site describing the human health risk assessment that EPA did to register the pesticide. It will tell you what the risks are. There is usually a fact sheet written in plain English to help you understand the risks.

And for the PP with the comment on DDT...







The risk assessments performed to support pesticide registration today are nothing like what was performed in the past. They are far more rigorous, and the risks are well understood. Pesticides are not "safe," they carry risks that are well-studied, but they are still used as a tradeoff between one risk an another (e.g., in some areas the risk from West Nile virus is about equal to the risk from spraying mosquitoes to reduce the risk of West Nile). Anyhow, DDT is a risk for birds, not people.

Many of the pesticides used now are derived from plants (e.g., chrysanthemum) and are much less toxic than pesticides used in the past. Hopefully this is the case for the product used on your house.

(I am an environmental risk assessor, and I do not work for pesticide companies. I do like to set the record straight when there is undue panic over small exposures like this...)









: I am sorry, but I can barely breathe right now. One of my favorite quotes comes to mind now.......

_It is very difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it. ~ Upton Sinclair_

Now....I don't think the OP is going to die or wind up with some terrible issues, but no exposure is good at all.

FTR, I am laughing at the finger waving.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tayndrewsmama* 
_It is very difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it. ~ Upton Sinclair_

I agree with this quote. However, I think you missed the part where I said I DO NOT work for pesticide companies, hence it does not apply here.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.o...as-last-resort

Dated one month ago.

How about choosing a reputable source for your information. At environmentally-relevant exposure levels DDT is not harmful to humans.

ETA: I read your link fully now and I see that it is reputable. I apologize for initially jumping to the conclusion it was not. Everything else I write still stands though (see post below) - the people who are having health effects are getting HUGE doses of DDT. Remember that in the US it was used only outdoors. Trucks would drive down the street spraying it out and kids would run behind, cooling off in the spray







But under those (still high) exposures, no adverse effects were linked to DDT to my knowledge.

SO the main point I am making is that "DDT" is a big rallying cry among people concerned about pesticides, but most people don't know it was banned because of effects to birds, not people. Not that we should disparage the importance of birds... Plus it is highly persistent, which can lead to all kinds of unanticipated effects later. Both these concerns are not controlled for in current risk assessments done by EPA to determine if a pesticide can be used in the US.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs35.html*
No effects have been reported in adults given small daily doses of DDT by capsule for 18 months (up to 35 milligrams [mg] every day). People exposed for a long time to small amounts of DDT (less than 20 mg per day), such as people who worked in factories where DDT was made, had some minor changes in the levels of liver enzymes in the blood.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
You have got to be freaking kidding me. That sentence right there negates everything you have just said since DDT has been known to poison humans, and some believe mimic polio symptoms.

Anything can poison humans. The dose makes the poison. Large doses of any substance can kill people. Therefore, in order to avoid labeling every substance on earth as a poison, one must take into account the likely exposure levels. If a small exposure causes adverse health effects, then it is considered risky, "toxic," or "poisonous." For DDT, human health effects are elicited by high doses over short periods of time.

ETA: I see now that aniT's link shows there are some human effects when DDT is used indoors, which is a relatively new trend in high-Malaria countries. These people are probably getting very high doses. Please note that in the US, the pesticide label is the law (literally), so when a pesticide is for "outdoor use only" or "apply 2x a year," that means there was a risk assessment showing that risks were low for those application scenarios. The same protections to keep doses to reasonable levels are not in place overseas. AND if you do not follow the US label and use an outdoor-only chemical indoors, or apply more than the maximum number of times, you will increase your exposure (and hence risk) to a level that EPA considered unacceptable in their risk assessment.

(Note that, for the purposes of my discussion, I am considering only scientifically demonstrated and generalizable health effects - not isolated people with allergies or effects caused by exposures to complex mixtures of chemicals that might contain DDT at waste sites, etc. You might choose to place more emphasis on individual or spurious accounts of problems (like someone who has polio symptoms that they attribute to DDT exposure) than I do - and that's your prerogative in determining your own comfort level with risk. I am talking about the way EPA or NIH or university researchers would be looking at these issues.)


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TonyaW* 
I think it is important to note that this is not a small exposure considering that if they want to eliminate the bug source with pesticides, that the exposure will be constant and ongoing as long as they use pesticides. I think it is important to look for more natural ways if possible. Not to mention that we endure a daily toxic load that we really have no control over. So wherever we can control toxin exposure we should.

Yes, that is possible. I was referring just to the incident when the OP touched the still-wet pesticide, and then quickly washed it off. The possibility of higher exposures over time depends on the active ingredient. Many of the newer pesticides are degraded by exposure to water, sunlight, and/or microorganisms in a month or less. So the key is to not touch the treated areas for that amount of time.

(Reading this over, I do kind of sound like I am a pesticide salesperson don't I? FTR, I feed my family all organic foods and I grow an organic garden. I have allowed pesticides to be used on my property for two things only - keeping carpenter ants out of my house, and last summer, for mosquito control in the swamp far behind my house, when the very scary mosquitoborne disease, EEE, started spreading in my area. Both my choices were well-researched and I was comfortable with them, but people's comfort-level with risk from chemicals differs and that's OK!)


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
I agree with this quote. However, I think you missed the part where I said I DO NOT work for pesticide companies, hence it does not apply here.

No, I didn't miss that. I think we can both agree that a portion of your job wouldn't exist if they didn't exist.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tayndrewsmama* 
No, I didn't miss that. I think we can both agree that a portion of your job wouldn't exist if they didn't exist.











My work has absolutely nothing to do with pesticides. Pesticides could all be blown off the face of the earth and it would have influence on my work. I do risk assessments for other classes of chemicals for completely different reasons. I used to work for EPA and two years ago I founded a company that advances ecological safety in ingredient selection for companies making consumer products (like shampoo).


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 









My work has absolutely nothing to do with pesticides. Pesticides could all be blown off the face of the earth and it would have influence on my work. I do risk assessments for other classes of chemicals for completely different reasons. I used to work for EPA and two years ago I founded a company that advances ecological safety in ingredient selection for companies making consumer products (like shampoo).

Well then you have my apologies. It was next to impossible to understand that when you spoke, in a single post no less, about the risk assessments done on pesticides and then stated that you are an environmental risk assessor. I guess I drew a line from A to B and it seemed like a rather short one to draw considering the info given.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tayndrewsmama* 
Well then you have my apologies. It was next to impossible to understand that when you spoke, in a single post no less, about the risk assessments done on pesticides and then stated that you are an environmental risk assessor. I guess I drew a line from A to B and it seemed like a rather short one to draw considering the info given.









No prob. The implied link was unintentional. Reading back over my posts I sound embarrassingly like a pesticide salesperson and that was not my point. My point was supposed to be that currently registered pesticides are, for the most part, far less of a health concern than the ones I grew up with.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

I just hope you are right, as we live in farmland and they are forver spraying the piss out anything that grows anything that crawls within.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
I am talking about the way EPA or NIH or university researchers would be looking at these issues.)

See here is the thing, I don't trust the EPA either. Aren't they the ones who prematurely cleared NYC and said there was no health risk from the "dust" in the air after 911? I really don't trust much of anything government agencies say as they usually have huge conflict of interests. (Such as people who hold huge stock in drugs or vaccines sitting on the FDA and approving them.)

And yes I do believe the DDT/Polio link. I find it highly more likely that something else was causing the polio like systems of the 40's (such as kids running behind DDT trucks to cool off in the spray) than the fact that something that has been around for thousands of years suddenly going rouge.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
See here is the thing, I don't trust the EPA either. Aren't they the ones who prematurely cleared NYC and said there was no health risk from the "dust" in the air after 911? I really don't trust much of anything government agencies say as they usually have huge conflict of interests. (Such as people who hold huge stock in drugs or vaccines sitting on the FDA and approving them.)

And yes I do believe the DDT/Polio link. I find it highly more likely that something else was causing the polio like systems of the 40's (such as kids running behind DDT trucks to cool off in the spray) than the fact that something that has been around for thousands of years suddenly going rouge.

My experience in the EPA was that the people were highly ethical. I can only speak for the people I worked with though and it is a huge, huge organization. It is plausible that there are political/special interest influences to some parts of the organization.

If you don't trust EPA to make a good decision, you can always look at their full risk assessments. They publish the original data in there, and the original study data may lead you to a different conclusion than it did for EPA. Another source of info is an EPA Science Advisory Board composed of external, unconflicted researchers who issue opinions that EPA "ought" to follow on complicated issues. EPA doesn't always follow the advice, but SAB reports are good information sources to use so you can draw your own conclusion.

Outside EPA, ATSDR publishes Toxicological Profiles for many chemicals. They have lots of good information in them for you to use in drawing your own conclusions about your comfort level of a chemical at a given dose. There are lots of international sources of data too - WHO, for example.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

I believe that it is incredibly rare to find researchers anymore in any field that are not conflicted.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tayndrewsmama* 
I believe that it is incredibly rare to find researchers anymore in any field that are not conflicted.

Hmmm - yeah. Maybe I should have written that the SAB members go through a vetting process to eliminate clear biases and conflicts. That's the best you can get, though, for many reasons that I will not go into here (I have procrastinated too long and don't want to rant).


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

But see.. The EPA says it's OK to drop poison via helicopter onto my house, yard, and whatever else becuase they found ONE glassy wing sharp shooter. And I am not going to read their data. What I am going to believe is that pesticides are unsafe and I don't want my family exposed to them. They are mind you.. made specifically to kill living things.


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
But see.. The EPA says it's OK to drop poison via helicopter onto my house, yard, and whatever else becuase they found ONE glassy wing sharp shooter. And I am not going to read their data. What I am going to believe is that pesticides are unsafe and I don't want my family exposed to them. They are mind you.. made specifically to kill living things.

This is exactly the stuff that bothers me too. You have reminded me to call the DNR as well. There's big to do here about the Emerald Ash Borer and now I am seeing blue bags hanging in random ash trees around here. I have no doubt this will be bad news if they catch even one.


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