# Traveling with a 3YO... car seat ?s



## MunchiesMom (Apr 10, 2010)

We've never traveled by plane as a family since DS was born, but we might be flying this fall and I'm at a loss on what to do regarding his car seat. Do I install it in the plane and expect him to sit still, strapped to the seat for a flight? Do I check it with baggage and install it in a rental car? This seems like the best idea to me but DH would like to avoid a car seat if possible. But I don't think we can safely.

What if we don't bring it and don't rent a car, but fly then use shuttles, buses or taxis to get around town? What do you do on a shuttle? How the heck can you take a taxi?

I'm a huge car seat safety nut...3 YO DS is still rear facing in his Britax Boulevard and will be for a while. Please give me your honest advice!

TIA!


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

I would bring a seat on the plane in all cases, except where you won't have a car. Depending on shuttles, they often don't have seatbelt to even use a carseat. Hopeful you can check ahead of time about the shuttle.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

If you are planning to use a taxi or vehicle of any kind, you MUST bring a car seat.

It is however unsafe and not recommended to 'check'your seat. Bring it on board, install it (for the boulevard, ask the attendant for a belt extenders, otherwise it'll be nearly impossible to take out again), and have your son use it as per the 'fasten seatbelt light'. If the light is not on, it is acceptable to get up for bathroom breaks and stuff.

If you would prefer not to deal with the hassle of a car seat, use a CARES harness on the plane, and a Ride Safer Travel Vest at your destination.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

It really depends on where you're going. The taxis in some cities don't even have seat belts. In my state and the states we've ridden in taxis in, we've just skipped car seats because there's usually no way of installing them. The same thing goes for buses, subways and shuttles.

I'm a huge proponent of car seats and my child has never ridden in a *car* without one, but we usually skip the car seat for travel in big cities where we use public transport the entire time.

Look up the city and maybe post on finding your tribe to see whether cabs even have seat belts.

If you're renting a car, definitely bring a car seat with you. The ones at rental places are often not the greatest. We have checked our seats in the past, but it is safer to install it on the plane.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

It would be illegal for a licensed taxi in the United States to not have seatbelts. I'm not saying you couldn't find a belt, but I'll bet the belts were simply tucked out of the way.

Children must ride in a car seat, in a taxi. The taxi will have seatbelts. Furthermore, I would be surprised if any cab from a standard sized cab company in the US wasn't new enough to also have lower anchors and top tethers for restraints.

Buses/subways etc are a different matter. They do not have seatbelts, and for several reasons, are very safe to travel in as such, even without car-appropriate restraints.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunchiesMom*
> 
> We've never traveled by plane as a family since DS was born, but we might be flying this fall and I'm at a loss on what to do regarding his car seat*. Do I install it in the plane and expect him to sit still, strapped to the seat for a flight? Do I check it with baggage and install it in a rental car?* This seems like the best idea to me but DH would like to avoid a car seat if possible. But I don't think we can safely.
> 
> ...


We travel by plane frequently and our DS did best when he was strapped into his seat. He felt secured and was calm, it was like he thought he was in the car. Once, around age 3, I didnt' take the seat on the plane and it was a bit of a nightmare as DS felt he was "free to move about the cabin" and I spent the entire 4 hour flight pulling him off the floor and trying to prevent him from escaping our row.

In general, you should be able to board first, which will give you time to install the seat. You can ask the gate agent if you aren't sure. Lately, I have noticed gate agents are not issuing the "anyone with small children or otherwise requiring extra time may board now."

If you don't take it on the plane, you will have to check it as luggage whether is regular or gate-checked. As far as I know, you do not pay baggage fees on carseats. You are likely to get an avalache of opinions on whether on not it is safe to check a carseat.

Not one airport/ground transportation shuttle we have used over the years had shoulder belts. I remember seeing lap belts on some. I can't remember how your seat installs but just be aware that at best, you will only have a lap belt on a mini-bus type of shuttle.

I agree on researching taxis where you are visiting. I remember riding in taxis that either didn't have seat belts or the belts were stored under the seat and not accessible.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

Perhaps, but it's been the case in our experiences. There are also laws that exempt kids from riding in car seats in taxis in many states. I'm just stating our experiences. Do you live in a city? Have you traveled in cabs recently? I just read that owner operator cabs do not have to have seat belts. . . They're encouraged, but it's not the law everywhere.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freestylemama*
> 
> Perhaps, but it's been the case in our experiences. There are also laws that exempt kids from riding in car seats in taxis in many states. I'm just stating our experiences. Do you live in a city? Have you traveled in cabs recently? I just read that owner operator cabs do not have to have seat belts. . . They're encouraged, but it's not the law everywhere.


Even if it's legal, that doesn't change the laws of physics and make it safe.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Some states do not require children to ride in car seats in taxis, it is true, but that does not somehow make it 'safe' to do so. It is still extremely dangerous for a child to ride unrestrained, just as it would be in a typical car.

There are a number of owner-operator single cabs in the community I live in, and while the cars tend to be older and not as 'nice' as you would expect to see in a city typically-sized cab company, every single one of them has appropriate seatbelts. It is far more likely that the belts were 'stowed' than absent, as passenger cars are only made with seatbelts. They simply do not come 'without'.

Bottom line: if you're in a cab, everyone, including children, needs to be correctly restrained, regardless of law, regardless of the kind of cab company.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

I have not once argued that this was safe or ideal. I have stated that this is the reality of what we have observed in our many taxi rides in many big cities in the United States.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Well, I will have disagree with you, because it simply isn't true. Taxis have seatbelts. It would be a truly bizarre anomaly to come across just one without, let alone many of them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freestylemama*
> 
> I have not once argued that this was safe or ideal. I have stated that this is the reality of what we have observed in our many taxi rides in many big cities in the United States.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

I have ridden in cabs in Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Las Vegas and NYC, and I've never seen one without seatbelts. In fact I've never ridden in one without my seatbelt on. Shuttle busses vary, though I'd say 95% of the ones I've ridden in do have lap/shoulder belts. Most of mine were from ORD or LAX. The ones that don't are usually full-sized busses rather than passenger vans, so I am more comfortable riding in them without seatbelts. Busses and subway systems are far safer than cars, so they don't need seatbelts.

We avoid cabs with the kids, because of the carseat issue. DD (age 3) used a FF Complete Air on her last flight a few months ago. It was very comfortable for her. I let her get out when the seatbelt signs weren't lit to stretch her legs and stuff.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

We have often not had them (or had them not function properly) in Chicago. We've also ridden without them in NYC.

ETA: We've also traveled to foreign countries where they don't exist.

Like I said, I'm not advocating the practice, just sharing what we've experienced.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

Chi and NYC taxis here too. Yes often hidden belts and never been brave enough to dig for them
The shuttle I think of are the big ones for the rental car center that never have belts. Though I did ride in a school bus that was a shuttle and did have belts, but I didn't bring a seat.

I agree a seat is always best, but sometimes I do mass transit on all but one part of a trip and then 1 taxi ride. Just a lot of hassle to carry a seat with you as you tour a city for a just in case you might need a taxi or had missed a bus that won't come back anytime soon.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chel*
> 
> Chi and NYC taxis here too. Yes often hidden belts *and never been brave enough to dig for them*


Seriously! I consider "hidden in the crack of a NYC/Philly/DC cab for 5+ years" to be the equal to not having a seatbelt available. Can you imagine all the fluids that flowed down there over the years? Shudder.....


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## MunchiesMom (Apr 10, 2010)

Thank you! I'm not comfortable with him riding in a shuttle or bus without a car seat, so I will rent a car for the week. We may be going to Orlando and apparently shuttles from our hotel to Disney are $20 a person anyway, so renting a car might be more cost effective.

Regarding how to bring the car seat, why is it unsafe and not recommended to check your seat?

It is allowed onbaord right? Has anyone ever gotten flack for having theirs onboard?

Wull the attendant automatically have a belt extender?

If i decide to check it, what is a CARES harness?

Thanks so much!


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

It is not safe to check your seat, because baggage is abused and mishandled. I have watched baggage handlers throw car seats more than 10 feet straight down onto the tarmac. You could get your seat back obviously broken, or even worse, your seat could come back with damage you can't really see. You continue to use the seat, and then, one day, you're in an accident, and the seat doesn't protect your child, because of the damage you didn't notice.

Putting your seat through a plane check and then continuing to use it is sort of like using a seat from a yard sale. Sure, it *could* be fine, but you have no way of knowing for sure.

You also need to consider that the average three year old does not fit well in the airplane seatbelt. He's just too small for a secure, safe belt fit that doesn't rise up over the hip bones onto the abdomen. My 4'3" child only just fits the airline lap belt acceptably.

If you do go with CARES, don't check your seat. Get a Ride Safer Travel Vest you can tuck into your carry-on.

The attendants should have strap extenders.

The FAA requires all airlines to allow parents to use and install child restraints according to manufacturer direction for the age and size of the child on the plane. For convenience sake and so you don't ruffle feathers, I would be fine turning your three year old forward facing for the duration of the flight.


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## SeattleRain (Mar 15, 2009)

You should definitely bring the seat on the plane. I had my 1 year old as a lap baby and he was literally all over the place. All I wanted was to restrain him in a carseat. He also would have slept better in his seat than he did on my lap. Get a luggage cart at Walmart or Target and you can wheel it around the airport. They'll automatically have all the things on the plane. The extenders are for carseats and also people who need extra room in their seat.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> Well, I will have disagree with you, because it simply isn't true. Taxis have seatbelts. It would be a truly bizarre anomaly to come across just one without, let alone many of them.


How can you disagree about what is true for another person? Are you calling her a liar? If she says she was in taxis without seatbelts, how can you disagree?!??!? Were you there?


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Some kids hate the carseat - 2 of mine did. I would NEVER bring a carseat on the plane. That would be tortuous. Air travel is EXTREMELY safe. A car seat is not necessary on an airplane. Check your car set if you must bring one to your destination. It is not going to be any more roughly handled by baggae than it was in transit from the factory to the store.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> We travel by plane frequently and our DS did best when he was strapped into his seat. *He felt secured and was calm,* it was like he thought he was in the car. Once, around age 3, I didnt' take the seat on the plane and it was a bit of a nightmare as DS felt he was "free to move about the cabin" and I spent the entire 4 hour flight pulling him off the floor and trying to prevent h


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## MariesMama (Sep 26, 2008)

Swede - have you ever looked out the window while parked at the gate and seen the baggage handlers dropping suitcases/bags/guitar cases/CAR SEATS from the plane to the ground? That's definitely not how they're treated in transit with UPS. If your seat shows up to your house damaged when you order it, you can send it back. If you get your seat from baggage claim and it's damaged, you're SOL. The airlines have no incentive to treat the seats nicely, whereas shipping companies and Walmart trucks DO.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I am disagreeing with her because I am familiar with laws and regulations for children, and taxi cabs, and she is incorrect. I am not calling her a liar; however, I do believe she is mistaken. This has nothing to do with 'opinion' or 'what is true for a person'. It has to do with fact. Fact: taxi cabs have seatbelts.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> How can you disagree about what is true for another person? Are you calling her a liar? If she says she was in taxis without seatbelts, how can you disagree?!??!? Were you there?


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

You are quite incorrect. The way carseats are transported (in boxes, which absorb energy, and by people who have a vested interest in not losing contracts due to broken shipped merchandise) for a store, is very different than how they are transported in checked baggage.

The statement, "It would be tortuous" is somewhat ridiculous compared to things that are ACTUALLY tortuous. Since I've taken actual car seats on actual planes, I can assure you it is no more than a minor inconvenience, much in the way that parenting in general is not prone to convenience.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Some kids hate the carseat - 2 of mine did. I would NEVER bring a carseat on the plane. That would be tortuous. Air travel is EXTREMELY safe. A car seat is not necessary on an airplane. Check your car set if you must bring one to your destination. It is not going to be any more roughly handled by baggae than it was in transit from the factory to the store.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MariesMama*
> 
> Swede - have you ever looked out the window while parked at the gate and seen the baggage handlers dropping suitcases/bags/guitar cases/CAR SEATS from the plane to the ground? That's definitely not how they're treated in transit with UPS. If your seat shows up to your house damaged when you order it, you can send it back. If you get your seat from baggage claim and it's damaged, you're SOL. The airlines have no incentive to treat the seats nicely, whereas shipping companies and Walmart trucks DO.


Yes I have seen the way baggage is handled. I've also seen handlers on Walmart loading docks. Not much difference. If your seat "looks" damaged, (at the airport or from the store) you have recourse. If it doesn't look damaged, you don't. Either way, your seat could have been mishandled. I got the impression that the previous poster was implying that if your seat is checked and comes through looking fine, you still shouldn't use it, because you don't know how it was handled. That is ridiculous. My apologies if I am wrong about what she is implying. Obviously, if a seat appears damaged, don't use it. BTW, airline companies have just as much incentive to treat baggage nicely. If they are careful, enough people will get fed up and stop using them.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> I am disagreeing with her because I am familiar with laws and regulations for children, and taxi cabs, and she is incorrect. I am not calling her a liar; however, I do believe she is mistaken. This has nothing to do with 'opinion' or 'what is true for a person'. It has to do with fact. Fact: taxi cabs have seatbelts.


*And she is stating it is a fact that some taxis she has been in do not. *


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> You are quite incorrect. The way carseats are transported (in boxes, which absorb energy, and by people who have a vested interest in not losing contracts due to broken shipped merchandise) for a store, is very different than how they are transported in checked baggage.
> 
> The statement, "It would be tortuous" is somewhat ridiculous compared to things that are ACTUALLY tortuous. Since I've taken actual car seats on actual planes, I can assure you it is no more than a minor inconvenience, much in the way that parenting in general is not prone to convenience.


again, you don't get to decide what is a hassle for anyone else. Yes, it would ACTUALLY be tortuous to have my screaming 18 month old strapped in his or her carseat for a three hour flight. For the child, for me and for the other passengers. I have strapped my actual child into an actual carseat in an actual automobile for 3 hours and the child was actually screaming the entire time. IT WAS TORTURE. I don't know how else to make clear to you that you are not privvy to ANYONE ELSE's REALITY.

BTW, I have bought carseats that are packaged in nothing more than a cardboard box - no styrofoam, etc... Are you ACTUALLY telling me that if I check my carseat in the box it came in, it's not safe to use afterward???


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> I am disagreeing with her because I am familiar with laws and regulations for children, and taxi cabs, and she is incorrect. I am not calling her a liar; however, I do believe she is mistaken. This has nothing to do with 'opinion' or 'what is true for a person'. It has to do with fact. Fact: taxi cabs have seatbelts.


You are quite incorrect.

This is a link to the NYS child passenger safety law -

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-1.htm

"Seat belt use is not required in taxis or livery vehicles, emergency vehicles, 1964 or older vehicles, or by passengers in buses other than school buses (seat belt use may be required by the school district). Rural letter Carriers are also exempt while they are delivering mail."


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


> The New York State Legislature recently passed, and Governor Pataki has signed into law amendments to the Vehicle and Traffic Law affecting the taxicab industry. Commonly referred to as "Adam's Law", this bill requires that each taxicab and livery vehicle have a notice posted in a conspicuous place within the vehicle which states: *"Seatbelts must be available for your use. Please buckle up."* The Law also requires that each seatbelt in a taxicab or livery be clearly visible, accessible and maintained in good working order.
> 
> The Administrative Code already requires that each vehicle licensed by the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission (TLC) be equipped with visible and operational seatbelts for passengers


http://home2.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/news/ind04_02.shtml


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DahliaRW*
> 
> http://home2.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/news/ind04_02.shtml


the link I posted said copyright 2011, yours says 2004. Also, yours just says that they must be available for use, not that they MUST be used.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> the link I posted said copyright 2011, yours says 2004. Also, yours just says that they must be available for use, not that they MUST be used.


The law was never repealed (easy to google and see it's still on the books). So they have to be available. Yes, no law they must be used, but Taxi cabs, at least in NY, must have working order seatbelts.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DahliaRW*
> 
> The law was never repealed (easy to google and see it's still on the books). So they have to be available. Yes, no law they must be used, but Taxi cabs, at least in NY, must have working order seatbelts.


That is what I said.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> again, you don't get to decide what is a hassle for anyone else. Yes, it would ACTUALLY be tortuous to have my screaming 18 month old strapped in his or her carseat for a three hour flight. For the child, for me and for the other passengers. I have strapped my actual child into an actual carseat in an actual automobile for 3 hours and the child was actually screaming the entire time. IT WAS TORTURE. I don't know how else to make clear to you that you are not privvy to ANYONE ELSE's REALITY.
> 
> BTW, I have bought carseats that are packaged in nothing more than a cardboard box - no styrofoam, etc... Are you ACTUALLY telling me that if I check my carseat in the box it came in, it's not safe to use afterward???


Not to add fuel to the fire, but baggage handlers are incredibly rough with everything, and I wouldn't want my carseat going through that. We've put my now three year old in a carseat in a plane the four times we've flown and he's done okay. Yes, there was some crying that caused another passenger to ask to be moved seats, and some might call that torture, but I didn't really care because safety comes first. If your 18 month old has a hard time being in a seat for a three hour flight, you could always strap him in at take off and landing which would at least be safer. And you'd know your carseat hadn't been handled roughly.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't doubt that every cab in NY is required to have belts. The reality of whether those belts work and are available is a very different story, based on our experiences. Also, NY isn't the center of the universe. Different states have different laws and regulations.

Lastly, I'll just put this out there. DD and I once had to ride in the back of a police car when my husband was taken to the emergency room by an ambulance at a very crowded event. The police were kind enough to drive us so we could meet him at the ER. There are times when car seats and safety belts would be nice but they just aren't always realistic. Lastly, I really wonder how some of the women here travel and if they ever go abroad. I'm all about being as safe as I can in my car, but I can't control everything and it's not always possible to have your kid protected perfectly. I'm done with this thread now because I'm frustrated with the attitudes that some people know more than others' experiences.

To the OP, it sounds like you've got a great solution with renting a car. I hope you have a wonderful trip!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> That is what I said.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freestylemama*
> 
> I don't doubt that every cab in NY is required to have belts. The reality of whether those belts work and are available is a very different story, based on our experiences. Also, NY isn't the center of the universe. Different states have different laws and regulations.
> 
> ...


I'm with you Freestylemama. Also - what people don't seem to understand is everyone's reality is not the same as theirs. If I got into a cab and didn't see any seatbelts, I would not give it a second thought. IT just isn't done. Also, I cannot imagine a busy city cab waiting (liek NY or chicago or Vegas) while I installed a carseat. Please, if you don't travel by cab regularly, you really don't understand how it works.


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## SeattleRain (Mar 15, 2009)

I travel by cab regularly. I always use a seatbelt and my child is always in a carseat. A taxi is not a bus. It's a car driven by a human driver under human conditions. You are no less injured/dead in a taxi crash than in a crash in your own home.

This forum is called "Family Safety." It is not safe for your family to ride without a seatbelt, even in a taxi cab. Just because you are for some reason that I don't understand, not required to have one on doesn't mean it's safe not to wear one. If you wouldn't ride in your own car without a seatbelt, I don't know why you'd ride in a taxi without a seatbelt. If a cab came to pick me up and it didn't have a seatbelt, I'd wait for another cab. But honestly, I've had a seatbelt in every single cab I've ever ridden in while in England, Ireland, the United States, France, Spain, Belgium, Israel, and Canada. So to the person who wonders how people travel overseas, I can tell you how. I wear my seatbelt. Unless you are going to a country where it is quite undeveloped, there will be a seatbelt in a taxi from a reputable company.

OP, my only piece of advice for you is that if you have a particularly large and bulky seat, try buy a seat like the Cosco Scenera which is lightweight and very cheap. This will cut down on the amount of shlepping you might have to do with a heavy carseat. If you put a Cosco Scenera (these can be found at Target or Walmart) on a luggage cart, you shouldn't have any further inconvenience of having the seat. Does your child typically like the carseat if you're sitting next to him and interacting? If so, I doubt you're going to have too much trouble with the kid in the seat for the airplane.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeattleRain*
> 
> *I travel by cab regularly. I always use a seatbelt and my child is always in a carseat. A taxi is not a bus. It's a car driven by a human driver under human conditions. You are no less injured/dead in a taxi crash than in a crash in your own home. *
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Not to mention, you're paying the cab driver for the time you spend wrestling the car seat into the car. It isn't like you're making a whole bus full of people wait, and it isn't like the driver isn't being compensated. Personally I don't care who gets ticked off while waiting for me to make my kid safe. If they can't understand a crying kid in an airplane who has to be in a carseat or a couple minutes installing a carseat in a cab, too bad.

I have experienced cabs in other countries that did not have seat belts. I put it out of my mind because there was nothing that could be done about it. But, if there is a seat belt, there is no reason not to put a child in a car seat in a cab or a plane.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Some kids hate the carseat - 2 of mine did. I would NEVER bring a carseat on the plane. That would be tortuous. Air travel is EXTREMELY safe. A car seat is not necessary on an airplane. Check your car set if you must bring one to your destination. It is not going to be any more roughly handled by baggae than it was in transit from the factory to the store.


Sorry but this is wrong, wrong and wrong.

Two of my children hated their car seats but car seats protected them on airplanes too. Take-off, landing and turbulence is when they have to be strapped down. The rest of the time you can have them on your lap or whatever (pacing the aisle, etc.) Having a child who hates their car seat is NOT a reason not to bring one on board.

I hope the fact your children hate the car seat is not a reason to not strap them into one in the car!

Air travel is safe but car seats have saved children in air accidents who would have been killed if they hadn't been in one. Meanwhile there are children who have been killed in accidents who would have survived if they had been in a car seat.

NEVER check a car seat as luggage. 13 years with the airlines showed me how bags are treated. To compare it to shipping from the factory to the store is not only wrong but a silly argument to use. Car seats which are damaged en route to the store will mean less profit for the manufacturer because of returns. Car seats are also transported in specifically made containers, usually by ground, not air. There is also much less of a time contraint. Baggage handlers must get the bags on a flight on time. A shipment of car seats? Less so... Meanwhile, the airlines have no real interest in keeping your car seat safe. Look on YouTube to see car seats being thrown on the tarmac and otherwise mishandled.

It's legal to fly with a lap baby and check a car seat as luggage but neither are safe and checking the car seat is really not smart (go for gate-checking if you have a lap baby). The airlines are keen to make profits and pressure the FAA to keep this legal. It's a carry-over from the early days before car seats were not even used in cars but air travel hasn't been updated.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> Totally agree. Not to mention, you're paying the cab driver for the time you spend wrestling the car seat into the car. It isn't like you're making a whole bus full of people wait, and it isn't like the driver isn't being compensated. Personally I don't care who gets ticked off while waiting for me to make my kid safe. If t*hey can't understand a crying kid in an airplane who has to be in a carseat* or a couple minutes installing a carseat in a cab, too bad.
> 
> I have experienced cabs in other countries that did not have seat belts. I put it out of my mind because there was nothing that could be done about it. But, if there is a seat belt, there is no reason not to put a child in a car seat in a cab or a plane.


Um, it's not just the other passengers I am worried about being unhappy - it is my child. Sorry, I am not going to have my child be screaming for an entire flight, when he or she would be relatively safe without the seat. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS A CAR, from a safety perspective.

And when I say travel by cab regularly, I am referring to standing on a busy corner and hailing one. Not calling 30 minutes in advance to be picked up. People in the city generally don't carry their car seats around. It's completely impractical. That is reality.


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eclipsepearl*
> 
> Sorry but this is wrong, wrong and wrong.
> 
> ...


It is only wrong, wrong, wrong for you. I am sorry that you don't seem to understand that travelling by plane is extremely safe - a car seat is just not neccessary. It is more dangerous to drive your car around - but people do it all the time. THere are people, thinking adults who love their children and have their children's best interests at heart, who weigh the benefits vs the hassle of bringing a car seat on the plane, who decide that it is a reasonable risk to take. YOU DO NOT GET TO SAY WHAT IS WRONG FOR ANOTHER PERSON. So sorry.

And yes, if a car seat has visible damage from either a baggage handler or a britax factory truck, you have recourse. If there is no visible damage, you have to assume it is safe. Whether from the factory or off the baggage claim. I'm sorry, this debate is laughable. Most people travel by air and in taxis without using car seats. They do not have any worse outcomes than you people that feel like by trying to micro manage your childrens lives you can minimize all risks. Life is dangerous. Get over it. It is not wrong to forgo a carseat on an airplane. And it is also not wrong - in some circumstances - to forgo a carseat in a taxi.

Your lives must be incredibly stressful. I am so sorry for you.


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## SeattleRain (Mar 15, 2009)

Well even if it's not "wrong" as you seem to believe, it is certainly unsafe.

I always find it funny on MDC where people make it seem like CIO will harm your child for life, but apparently riding around in a taxi without your child strapped in is somehow okay just because they'll cry or be upset. Requiring your children to ride in carseats is not "micromanaging" your kids' lives, it's doing the responsible thing. There are very few ways that you can really have an impact on your childs' safety, carseats is one of them. If you don't use a carseat, you're gambling with your childs' life. Do you want to live with the consequences if your wrong? Do you want to be dead right?


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeattleRain*
> 
> Well even if it's not "wrong" as you seem to believe, it is certainly unsafe.
> 
> I always find it funny on MDC where people make it seem like CIO will harm your child for life, but apparently riding around in a taxi without your child strapped in is somehow okay just because they'll cry or be upset. Requiring your children to ride in carseats is not "micromanaging" your kids' lives, it's doing the responsible thing. There are very few ways that you can really have an impact on your childs' safety, carseats is one of them. If you don't use a carseat, you're gambling with your childs' life. Do you want to live with the consequences if your wrong? Do you want to be dead right?


My point is it's just not that big of a gamble in a plane. And in a taxi - there really are times when it is not practical. I would also say that you have less impact than you might believe on your child's safety.

And yes - not checking a carseat at the airport because you are worried about no-visible damage IS micromanaging your life. I

m not going to do it - you are welcome to do it - it is silly to judge someone for not making the same choices as you. But hey - have fun!


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## GoGoGirl (Oct 13, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Also, I cannot imagine a busy city cab waiting (liek NY or chicago or Vegas) while I installed a carseat. Please, if you don't travel by cab regularly, you really don't understand how it works.


We live in NYC, and I've actually found that cab drivers don't mind sitting there for 3 minutes (if I install the car seat) or even like 8 minutes (if DH is doing the installing). And these are yellow cabs we flag down at the curb, not private taxis. We do ask that they pull all the way over out of traffic though, so we're not pissing off all the other cars on the road.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> People in the city generally don't carry their car seats around. It's completely impractical. That is reality.


I have actually had people on the Family Safety forum tell me that I should carry our car seat around, everywhere we go, every single day, because once every like 4 months we have to take an emergency cab ride that we didn't anticipate and therefore don't have a car seat.







They really do expect me to carry a 2 year old, a whole week's groceries, the library books, AND a convertible car seat around every time I walk out the door. Up and down the subway stairs! Seven months pregnant!


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I cannot believe I have to spell this out.

Seatbelt USE is not required.

THE PRESENCE OF SEATBELTS IS.

These are two different things, from two different regulations.

I'm not sure why you're throwing a giant temper tantrum about something you clearly don't know much about, but it's making you look silly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> You are quite incorrect.
> 
> ...


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *swede*
> 
> Um, it's not just the other passengers I am worried about being unhappy - it is my child. Sorry*, I am not going to have my child be screaming for an entire flight, when he or she would be relatively safe without the seat*. IT IS NOT THE SAME AS A CAR, from a safety perspective.
> 
> And when I say travel by cab regularly, I am referring to standing on a busy corner and hailing one. Not calling 30 minutes in advance to be picked up. People in the city generally don't carry their car seats around. It's completely impractical. That is reality.


Then just use it during take off and landing, and keep your child on your lap the rest of the time.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> You are quite incorrect. The way carseats are transported (in boxes, which absorb energy, and by people who have a vested interest in not losing contracts due to broken shipped merchandise) for a store, is very different than how they are transported in checked baggage.


My Scenera came in a bag. No foam or extra packaging. Just a plastic zip bag. I don't think the wal-mart and UPS handlers were treating it with kid gloves. I can't see how that's any different from checking it.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

The bagged Sceneras are stacked and boxed for transport.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chickabiddy*
> 
> The bagged Sceneras are stacked and boxed for transport.


I did not know that. Thanks!


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## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> I cannot believe I have to spell this out.
> 
> ...


Not throwing a temper tantrum  I understand that seatbelts are required. And I am telling you, int eh real world, just because something is required by law, does not mean it will be true. There are plenty of times I have been in a cab where seatbelts are not visible.


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