# booster recs for almost 4yo



## anomaly13 (Dec 28, 2007)

We are thinking of moving our almost 4yo to a hbb. He is about 35 pounds and mature enough for one. Originally we planned on waiting until he was 4 and a half, which is when his sister turns one and would have to move from her infant seat into his britax boulevard. We are looking at the britax parkway sg and the graco high back turbobooster.

any reccomendations? other hbb we should look at?

Our current seat arrangement:
almost 4yo (in august) ff in britax boulevard
almost 2yo (in august) ff in britax boulevard
2 month old in graco safeseat

plan on keeping the middle child in his boulevard until it expires or he outgrows it, then move him into a hbb. the youngest will take over oldest boulevard until it expires then probably move into a 3 in 1 model.

would like to buy the fewest carseats possible over the years without compromising safety, but have no problem buying expensive seats if they are worth it, kwim? suggestions?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I am not going to recommend a booster, because I don't think a 35# 3yo (or even a 37# newly-4yo) should be in a belt-positioning booster. I will recommend a combination harness-to-booster seat like the Graco Nautilus.


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
I am not going to recommend a booster, because I don't think a 35# 3yo (or even a 37# newly-4yo) should be in a belt-positioning booster. I will recommend a combination harness-to-booster seat like the Graco Nautilus.

I totally agree with this. I have the Nautilus and I'm very please with it.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

First, I would turn your 2yo rfing, now. So much safer that way. Then, buy your nearly 4yo a nautilus or similar seat. I wouldn't put him in a booster just yet. Not until 40lbs at the minimum. Your youngest can stay in the infant seat until there is less than 1" of hard shell above his/her head or the weight limit is exceeding. It has nothing to do with age, so if they still fit in it at a year you can keep using it.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I would put kid one in the Nautilus and use the five point harness till he's older, and then use the Nauti as a booster.

I would turn kid two back to rearfacing. A one year old is NOT safe facing forward.

I would put kid three in the rear facing Boulevard when he/she gets too uncomfy in the safeseat or whenever you want....


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

i'd go for the nautalus. it has a high 5pt harness height and weight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yep to the others. The under 2yr old needs to RF for a long time to come (do they fit rf in the blvd? If not, then a different seat, but most 2yr olds fit a blvd rf- my dd fit rf until 3.5)

And the 4yr old should be harnessed. The nautilus is a great choice. Another good choice is the frontier.

-Angela


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I agree with a Nautilus if your almost 4 yo is outgrowing the BLVD, as well as with flipping the almost 2 yo back to rear-facing if he is under 35 lbs.

Eta: this combo might mean you only need to buy a HBB later on. If the baby outgrows the safeseat in about a year (some make it longer), she can go into the unexpired BLVD... then your oldest will be 5 - and likely okay in a high back booster at that point, the middle child will be 3 - and possibly outgrowing the BLVD rear-facing, so he can move into the Nautilus.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

You say your son is mature for his age, but at not even 4, his bones are not strong enough to withstand the forces that an adult belt would put on his tiny body. So while maturity is a big factor when it comes to boosters, so is physical maturity. If he was almost 6 and 35lbs, I'd say go for it, but at not-yet-4, its just not a safe option.

If you want to buy as few carseats as possible though, like the others said, the Graco Nautilus is a great choice. Its a harnessed seat that converts to a high back booster (6yr expiry), and then later a backless booster (9yr expiry!) so you will get a lot of use out of it. The cheapest route though would be to harness your now (almost) 4yo in it for another 1-2 years until your now (almost) 2yo needs it. _Then_ get a dedicated HBB (or a HBB that converts to a backless) for the older child and pass the Nauti down to the middle child to use in harness mode. Once the harness/high back portion expires, DS1 will be about 10 and DS2 about 8, so at least one of them would be able to use it.

So yeah... For $150, the thing will last you 9 years and it will keep you kiddos a lot safer for a lot longer.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I agree with the other posters--Nautilus/Frontier for the oldest, and RF for the 1 yo. You can move the baby to the Blvd (RF) at any point--you don't need to wait for her birthday.


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## anomaly13 (Dec 28, 2007)

I should have mentioned that the switch from the boulevard to a hbb would be limited. we drive an 09 odyssey with 3 LATCH seats, the two bucket seats in the middle row and the middle seat in the third row. I much prefer the latch to the seatbelt, I can never get the seatbelt tight enough. Almost 4yo is in the middle seat in the third row, which allows us to put down one side seat. DH says he could fits his bike in the car if almost 4yo moved to the side seat which would allow us to put down the other end seat and the middle seat. However the boulevard is too wide for this to happen. This would only be for camping trips, a few times a month. But I think we decided on getting a trailer hitch installed instead, makes more sense to me in the long run and almost 4yo can stay in his latch seat. So we will wait on getting a new carseat for our oldest, and if I have my way it will be a 3 in 1 like the Nautilus.

As for almost 2 yo ff. When we had our baby in April, we had to put her infant seat behind the front passenger's seat and move almost 2 yo ff behind the driver, he was 20 months. DH needs the driver's seat all the way back, and then some, but cannot do that with any rf carseat in the seat behind him. Thought of switching middle child with oldest child so middle child could be rf in the middle seat of the third row, but the thought of a rear end accident worries me with a rf child back there and a face full of glass and who knows what, kwim?

So we are going to keep everyone where they are and probably get a Nautilus for our oldest when our youngest is 1yo, I know she could use the infant seat longer but I think it will expire soon after her first birthday.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Remember that in a Honda, you need to discontinue LATCH at 40#.

The Boulevard tethers RFing, so there would be no rebound into the glass. RFing is much safer for a not-yet-2yo (it's safer for everyone, but far more important for very young children).


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Contrary to popular belief using a high back booster for and older child, 4+,is just as safe, or safer, than using a forward facing harnessed seat. There is no data, research or real life experience showing that harnessing should be safer in any way.

Quote:

You say your son is mature for his age, but at not even 4, his bones are not strong enough to withstand the forces that an adult belt would put on his tiny body. So while maturity is a big factor when it comes to boosters, so is physical maturity. If he was almost 6 and 35lbs, I'd say go for it, but at not-yet-4, its just not a safe option.
This statement is totally incorrect. It shows that people don't understand forces at work in an accident. In real life a harnessed seat puts more strain on a child's body than a high back booster seat. This is due to the child sitting very tight. The huge forces have to be absorbed by shoulders and neck which is not a good idea for a 4-year old. A child move around more in a high back booster seat and forces are spread more evenly over the body.

*Problem with original posters safety solution has nothing to do with high back booster or harnessed seat. Her almost 4-year old will be about as safe in both seats. The problem is with the not even 2-year old sitting forward facing, it also sounds like this has been going on for a while. The safety difference between FF and RF for a 2-year old is a stunning 500%.*

The Swedes, widely considered 30 years ahead of all other countries in car seat safety, recommend against harnessing any older children (4 and up) for safety reasons. The strategy of Rf to age 4 and then high back booster show stunning results and has mean that traffic fatalities for age 0-6 years is basically zero each year.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

AD, I'm curious -- how much time does the average Swedish 4yo spend in a car on any given day?

I (more or less, but mostly more) agree with you about the safety of booster vs. harness, *when kids can use a booster properly*. It is my experience, both as a parent and a CPST working to educate families, that most 4yos cannot remain properly seated in a booster for as long as they need to. It has nothing to do with intelligence, maturity, understanding, or anything else -- they simply have not yet developed the impulse control needed. This may be because we are a very car-centered society and kids can spend an hour a day or longer in the car: it requires more impulse control to sit correctly for an hour than it does to sit correctly for five minutes.


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## Mommybree (Jul 27, 2007)

From Swedish research: "A tendency of higher injury risk was found when the growing child switches from one restraint to another, i.e. when the child is at the youngest age approved for the restraint. Thus, the total injury-reducing effect would increase if all children were to use the child restraint system most appropriate for their size and age." That's from SAFETY FOR THE GROWING CHILD - EXPERIENCES FROM SWEDISH ACCIDENT DATA by Lotta Jakobsson, Irene Isaksson-Hellman, and Björn Lundell at Volvo Car Corporation Sweden. (www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0330-O.pdf)

Since even the Swedish research shows that children who are at the younger end of the spectrum of acceptable booster usage are at the highest risk for injury, a not-quite-4 year old is not as safe in a booster as an older child.

Also, the same article noted that there IS a difference in child and adult bones: "The iliac spines of the pelvis, which are important for good lap belt positioning and for reducing risk of belt load into the abdomen, are not well developed until about 10 years of age (Burdi et al. 1968). The development of iliac spines, together with the fact that the upper part of the pelvis of the sitting child is lower than of an adult, are realities that must be taken into consideration in the design, in order to give a child the same amount of protection as an adult."


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## mama2soren (Feb 12, 2009)

You can get a very upright RF install with some seats (Complete Air and TrueFit) that could very well give your DH enough leg room. The CA can be installed at a 30* angle, and the TF at 35*. They take up less front to back room than most infant seats.

I understand your worry about the glass if a RF child was in the back. But, I would be infinitely more worried about the devastating spinal injuries a FF 1 year old would sustain. If a crash would be severe enough to cause a lot of harm from glass shattering everywhere, it would likely be a life-threatening crash to a FF baby. Just something to consider.


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## anomaly13 (Dec 28, 2007)

"The problem is with the not even 2-year old sitting forward facing, it also sounds like this has been going on for a while. The safety difference between FF and RF for a 2-year old is a stunning 500%."

he has been ff since he was about 20 months and stayed that way for about the last 9 weeks, and since we just had a baby we have not ventured out of the house much, maybe 1-2 times a week.

since we aren't going to replace almost 2yo's seat , it's not even a year old, so dh can push the seat all the way back, everyone agrees that we should put him in the middle seat of the third row rf, right? I'm not sure he will like that all the way in the back facing away from everyone, kwim, but we will give it a try. And he should stay rf for how long?

I had no idea that you have to stop using the latch in a honda at 40 pounds. are we doing something wrong because we can never get the carseat tight enough, no movement, using the seat belt.

Also what's everyone opinion on those mirrors? I like being able to see what they are doing when rf, we use one for the infant seat and would probably get one for middle child if we move him. I'm sure everyone will tell not to use them, but they give me peace of mind, kwim?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I wouldn't panic about a mirror, provided it was securely attached.

You can install the ~2yo's seat more upright, which should give your DH plenty of room, or you can move him to the 3rd row.

I can't tell you if you are installing your seats "wrong" with the seatbelt but you absolutely should be able to get a secure install with just the seatbelt. Maybe practice a little and see what's going wrong? Are you locking the belt?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I don't mean to be offensive at all, but Britax seats install easily and tightly. If you can't get a good installation with the vehicle belts, then yes, I suspect you are doing something wrong. (Misuse is at about 90% nationwide. I'm not passing judgement with that statement.) Can you meet with a CPST to work on learning to install your seats?

(Does your location refer to Duke University? I'm a little over an hour away. If you can't find anyone closer, I'd meet you halfway.)


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## anomaly13 (Dec 28, 2007)

We are actually using the latch system currently with all our carseats and there is pretty much zero movement. But in case we need to use a seat belt in another car or in the event that we have more kiddos we decided to try out the seat belt method. we did pull the sealt belt all the way so it would lock, but there was never a snug fit. Mind you we tried 2 times I think before giving up and putting the carseat back in the latch system.

I have considered going to see a cpst in our area, but since we are currently using the latch system with all the carseats and it seems to be fine i have not gone to see one. Maybe I will anyway to see what they say, but I think we are all good as far as the carseats being secure, kwim?

chickabiddy- no offense taken at all. we are actually in New Mexico so half way would be pretty far, lol.

Thanks to everyone for all your help and input. I was planning on cleaning out the car today anyway so may as well move the carseats around a bit to see what works best for us. I will let you all know what we do.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

AD: Trust me, I am completely aware of the benefits of RF'ing until 4+, hence why my FIVE year old is still RF'ing.







And if DS is mature enough for a booster once he outgrows his seats RF'ing (which will be quite a while from now as he's 34" tall and 25lbs), I would totally choose that over a harnessed FF'ing seat.

However, like you said, the OPs 1yo is FF so I assumed she would have no interest in turning her 3yo RF'ing (maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's what most of us here assumed) and I just don't agree that a booster is an appropriate restraint for a 3yo. Their bones ARE different, and like someone else said, they just don't have the impulse control. Boostering at 3 is very common here (even though the legal minimum is 4, but I digress...) and I've yet to meet a 3yo that sat properly 100% of the time. You should see the Facebook pics my friends post of their 3 and 4 year olds in boosters. Not pretty.


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