# Support needed. I told my dad he wasn't welcome in my home...



## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

I'll try to be a succinct as possible, but it's a complicated situation.

My dad was abusive in my childhood. There was a lot of bullying, threats of physical abuse, actual physical abuse, and emotional abuse (telling us we were stupid, worthless, refusing to let us cry with threats of physical harm, blah blah blah). There have been several "incidences" during my life, which are what our family calls the major episodes of him blowing up. My dad has even been arrested once.

One of his major temper triggers is normal child behavior: crying, whining, inability to verbally express what they want, playing too loudly, talking too loudly, etc. So when we started growing up and moving out thing got better for the sole reason my dad wasn't dealing with children anymore.

Enter grandkids. My son is the first grandchild and he's very spirited. If anyone has read "Raising Your Spirited Child", BuggaBoo scored a 40 out of 45 on the little quiz. He has explosive expressions of emotions, screaming one minute and laughing wildly the next. Needless to say BuggaBoo's personality does not mesh with my dad's.

We have been working with my son and with age he has better control with his emotions and is able to express them through speech more and more. We work with naming his emotions for him, encouraging him to talk about them, and when he's throwing a knock-down fit he's welcome to do so in his room. He is allowed to cry and make frustrated noises, laugh, be mad, and basically be a person.

My dad hates how we're raising our kids.

My dad is a major bully to my son in particular, but now that my daughter is growing up she's getting it, too. They live 4 hours away so that's nice, but interaction with family were getting bad. My dad would parent over us, place unrealistic expectations on my son, tell him crying wasn't allowed in his hours (at 18 months!), calling my son names (crybaby, don't you want to be a big boy), and threatening physical discipline (usually spanking).

My dad would also create artificial situations so he could punish BuggaBoo. For example, we were dairy-free for the first 3 years of BuggaBoo's life. My dad was always trying to give him stuff. When BuggaBoo was around 18 months old my dad was eating ice cream. BuggaBoo asked for some, but when I explained that it had milk in it and I would get him something different he was totally fine with it. He sat down next to my dad, and my dad offered him some ice cream. Of course BuggaBoo said yes, and my dad said, "Too bad, you can't have any," and ate the spoonful himself. When my son started crying about it my dad said, "Stop crying, no crying in my house." So, yeah, stuff like that.

The Hubby and I talked to my dad lots of times about his behavior, but he always defended himself. Last Christmas I confronted my dad and told him if he couldn't be nicer to my kids then he could not be around them. He said, fine, if that's how it needs to be. A few days later he came to my home (remember, 4 hours away) to tell me that my children weren't welcome in his home unless they correctly and he's able to punish them as he sees fit.

However, my dad (supposedly, I don't believe it however) thought that he could still see the kids. Through sporadic contact with my kids he was treating them much better. He still verbally maintained that he did/does no wrong, my kids need redirecting, blah blah blah. There was a lot of pressure from my family to let my dad show me he changed. I was wary about it, since we had this all the time was growing up, I felt we were in the "Honeymoon" cycle of abuse. But I decided to give him a chance.

My parents came to visit this last weekend. My dad was not nice to the kids at all. He was back to calling names and being verbally rough and parenting over us in our own home and telling my son which emotion he could have, which apparently the only "correct" emotion is happiness. Yesterday I went to the mall with my mom and sister and left the kids with The Hubby and my dad because they were working on yard projects. Last night after my parents left I was talking to The Hubby and it came out that my dad was very mean to the kids and actually threatened to spank BuggaBoo, which I have told my dad is never to be done.

I called my dad's cell last night to tell him he wasn't welcome in my home. I got his voice mail so I left the message. My dad immediately called back but I ignored it and had a panic attack in The Hubby's arms instead.

If you're still with me at this point, bless you. Please, flood me with support on this, I am so scared about what my dad is going to do and my family is going to do. The last time I did this the support from my family was split and it made it so hard. Obviously, because we let my dad back into our life. I don't want my son to be bullied like that. I've been working very hard to not become abusive and I just can't let my dad be that way. But some of my family tells me I'm blowing it out of proportion and that's just my dad. So, please, again, support me in this!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I have toxic parents who were abusive, and I am 100% with you on this. You have to set boundaries, and your home needs to be a safe place for your kids. Much love to you and your family!


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

People do not have the right to treat you or your loved ones badly just because you share blood. Your dad sounds very toxic and I think you're doing the right thing. His behavior towards you over your lifetime is probably a huge part of the reason that you feel so unsure and anxious about standing up for yourself and your family.

If some of your family members take sides in this, that says more about them than it does about you.


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## FrugalGranolaMom (Dec 1, 2009)

You are absolutely in the right with your decision. The welfare of your children is what's important and you are doing what is right for them.


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

Well done Mama! You are protecting your children!

You gave him ample chances to change his behaviour, now you need to create better boundaries, which you have done.








to you, what a hard thing to be going through.

I have such a hard time with grandparents interfering...they had their chance, it's not their turn anymore.

-Melanie


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## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

I agree with everyone else. You absolutely did the right thing. You gave your dad plenty of chances to change his behavior and he made it clear that he wasn't going to. You have no choice but to protect your children.

I had a grandfather (and a couple other relatives) who were verbally and physically abusive to my brother and me when we were small children. I have very clear memories of being terrified to be around these people, and I wish my parents had protected me from them. I know it must be hard, but I'm so glad you have the courage to do what my parents (and many others) weren't willing to do.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

You are doing what wasn't done for you! Be proud of yourself for stopping the cycle. If it splits the family then your family needs to do a lot of soul searching. He's trying to keep up with his bullying. Don't let him. He can not change unless he seeks help. You can do it mama!


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

You followed your heart and your intuition. You tried it their way and he proved himself to be what you knew he was all along. You gave it a go. An abuser can learn to control themselves or not. He hasn't. Don't let family bully you or shame you into backing down from your boundaries. You can send them the "been there done that" tee shirt if they do. You are right. You are being the strong intelligent, fine mom you are meant to be.


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## PhillyMama (Nov 3, 2007)

Sending you good wishes and lots of love, Lazurii.

What a hard thing you had to do, and I commend you for doing it. Your Dad is not respecting you as a parent and your kids may have suffered for it if you'd not set your boundaries.

Reading your OP, the thought of how immature your Dad is popped into my mind, especially the bit with the ice cream. That was just a cruel thing to do to a child.

You're standing up for your children, and they will see that and feel safe. What a wonderful lesson to teach them - that you will protect them, no matter what.

Big hugs ((((((((((Lazurii)))))))))))


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## McGucks (Nov 27, 2010)

Lazurii, next life around--can you be my mama?

Hooray to you for breaking the cycle, setting safe boundaries for yourself and your children, and for telling your story.

We can't really protect ourselves when we are children, but we sure can work hard to protect our own babies.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I hear you, sister. I had to draw some hard boundaries with my family, too. Use this as an opportunity to create a "family of friends" that love and support you for who you and your kids truly are.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Everyone, thank you. It means a lot that y'all love me so much. I got an email from my mom that was par for the course, meaning she understands why I'm choosing what I do, but it makes her uncomfortable because he takes it out on her. But I need to come to the understanding that It's not my fault if my dad treats my mom poorly, so I don't need to feel guilt about it.

Now if I could just follow my own advice...

ETA: Oh, by the way, my dad says he didn't actually threaten BuggaBoo, he just asked him, "Do you need a spanking?" Right, like that's not a threat? Gar!


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Thank you for choosing to be such a good Mama, even when it hurts. You ARE right in this.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

It's never the abuser's fault, is it?

I have little family left, and we can only allow dh's family to be around our kids supervised and for limited times. We don't trust them at all.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Sounds like you are doing exactly the right thing to protect your precious children. It must be so hard for you though, especially when some of your family is not supportive. Maybe it would help to tell the unsupportive family members that your decision is not up for discussion and that they need to respect that even if they disagree. If they can't do that then maybe you need to not see them either.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Good job! I know from personal experience that abusive parents leave you with a sort of Stokholm Syndrome. They almost always did something positive for you at some point, and it's hard to resist clinging to the hope that they can learn to be like that all the time. So I know it must have taken a lot of strength to do this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> Please, flood me with support on this, I am *so scared about what my dad is going to do* and my family is going to do. The last time I did this the support from my family was split and it made it so hard. Obviously, because we let my dad back into our life. I don't want my son to be bullied like that. I've been working very hard to not become abusive and I just can't let my dad be that way.


Don't hesitate to call the police if you need to. Tell your husband you won't hold it against him if he calls.

Quote:



> But some of my family tells me I'm blowing it out of proportion and that's just my dad. So, please, again, support me in this!
> 
> Sounds like those family members are the sort who think emotionally abusing a child is okay. It's not surprising; a lot of people feel that way, unfortunately.


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## kitchensqueen (Feb 20, 2006)

I'm in a similar situation with my parents, and I have had to cut all ties. You are doing the right thing! Abusers have no place in your life, even if (really, especially if!) they're biologically related to you. And with your mom - it's too bad he "takes it out on her" - but she's a grown woman, and it sounds like she might need to evaluate her own relationship with him. And as harsh as it sounds, that's not really your problem.

Stay strong! You can and are doing the right thing for your kids and yourself.


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

I grew up with an abusive father too and for that reason my father has seen my DS a total of maybe 3 or 4 times, and all in public places where he could not cause a scene or if he did, we could just walk out. He will never be allowed to be with my child at his house or my house. My sister does not necessarily agree with me on this, because she was his darling and truly did not experience the abuse the way my brother and I did. But it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, I know what is right, just like you do!

Our job is to protect our children. It is my belief that grandparents are not OWED a relationship with their grandchildren. In a perfect world, everyone would have amazing grandparents and every grandchild would have an awesome relationship with them. But reality is, some grandparents simply have not earned the right to be around.

Personally, if I was you, I would be considering cutting out your dad entirely, at least for awhile. I did that with my dad for 5 yrs, prior to my son's birth. I gave him another chance when my son was born, and it turned out that nothing had changed on his end. what changed on my end though, was that I felt I had the power to have him in my life if I wanted to, or if not, I didn't have to. It was great for me. You may not want to do that and that is ok too. Just telling you my experience.

YOU DID THE RIGHT THING MAMA. KEEP IT UP!!!!!


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

good job! have you considered getting yourself a little "talk therapy" / counseling -- to help you feel sure in your choices to stand your ground with your parents? sounds like your mother is your father's enabler.

they will not change.

you can only change yourself. which may mean doing exactly what you are already doing... but becoming more sure and confident in your choices.

i wish you luck. it's a long hard journey. but life has a way of giving you the experiences you need to grow in the ways that you need to.

i, also, would not leave my children with a person like your father.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

You are doing the right thing mama, as hard as it may seem! I've been there with my toxic mom, and life is much more peaceful without her in it now!!


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I have toxic parents that have been completely cut out of our lives for the sake of my child(ren). I think you made the right decision, and I hope your family doesnt try to bully you into going back on the boundaries you have set. Good job!


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> Good job! I know from personal experience that abusive parents leave you with a sort of Stokholm Syndrome. They almost always did something positive for you at some point, and it's hard to resist clinging to the hope that they can learn to be like that all the time. So I know it must have taken a lot of strength to do this.


Yes! This is so true. He can be a fabulous guy, but he can be the worst sort of person, too.

Again, everyone, you have no idea how much this is helping me. I come here several times a day and re-read all your wonderful comments and insights. It makes me wish we were all together so I could hug each and every one.

I want to get counseling very badly, but my dad was so anti-therapy it's hard to actually make the phone call. My Hubby is probably going to have to do it, but he's okay with that.

I've called my sisters yesterday, they are the ones that support me. They are very proud and stand behind me 1000000%. I haven't talked to my brother or his wife about it because they're the ones that are less-than-supportive. Their daughter is 7 months younger than BuggaBoo and they live 2 miles away from my parents in our old house, so they're always over at my parents'. I feel so bad at how my dad treats their daughter. He's not as gruff with girls as he is with boys, but he can be terrifying. She loves her grandpa but is still afraid of him, it just breaks my heart.

My brother says that he is waiting for the natural consequence of his daughter not wanting to spend time with my dad to teach Dad the lesson he needs. I tell my brother that the natural consequence with me is Dad treated me to badly that I'm not going to let him do that to my kids. When I did this the first time I was having such a hard time with it my SIL told me that she thought that meant I had made the wrong choice. That if it had been the right choice it would have been easy.

Ooops, sorry, slipped into vent mode. Still, thank you, I'm feeling much better. I've been treating myself like I'm sick and giving myself a break from a lot of things. I'm going to try to get out on a date with The Hubby this evening, just the two of us.


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## mamaupupup (Feb 18, 2008)

You are an incredible Mom! Keep protecting your children and trusting your instincts. Try not to second guess yourself. You are doing the right thing. As life progresses there will be coaches, teachers, maybe even more family who you may chose to exclude from your lives. That's okay! Yes, it can be sad. And, it can be freeing and healthy.

My children (now almost five years old) have never met my father--and he happens to live ten minutes away. My father was emotionally absent and emotionally mean to me. My parents divorced when I was a teen and it took me 15 years to figure out what to do with our relationship. I finally "divorced" him in my mind and have chosen to surround myself with loving, kind, supportive people. It took a while to get through the mourning process, but it's worth it to me to be free of the stress he created in my life.

My children have asked who my father is and I have answered matter of factly. They have asked if they can meet him and I have said, "No. My job is to protect you from people who would treat you poorly. I don't spend time with people who are mean." They seemed satisfied with that answer.

I agree with the poster who said "surround yourself with a family of friends." We call it "chosen family" and it works wonders!

Thinking of you!


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

You did the right thing, mama. You really did. Therapy will help in ways you probably can't even imagine right now. And I would strongly urge you to get a copy of this book: Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life

I cut my parents out of my and my children's lives because they were abusive when I was a child and were unwilling to either take responsibility for their actions or change their behavior when my own little ones were born. They'd rather be "right" than have their daughter, son-in-law, and grandchildren in their lives. That's their choice and not one I can change. It's very sad, but I realized a long time ago that blood doesn't make a family. Love does. My parents don't love me and most likely never did, and I refuse to play nice and pretend otherwise just to save them the embarrassment of admitting to people that they're not allowed to see their only grandchildren. This has made me plenty of enemies within the extended family, but I'm okay with that. My children's safety comes before my need to fit in with a truly dysfunctional group of toxics.

By the way, don't be surprised if your parents still expect access to your children even after you cut them off. My father was shocked and threw a mini tantrum when DH and I refused gifts for our son *two years* after I'd given him the boot. His sense of entitlement is so huge that he actually thought we would let him see our children even though he couldn't bring himself to apologize for his past behaviors and wrongdoing. Unreal. We are not talking about mentally healthy people here. Healthy, sane people aren't abusers. Again, you're doing the right thing. Your children deserve better than your parents can give them. They deserve better than you got. You deserved better, too, but we can't change the past. All we can do is take steps to change our present circumstances for the better.

I'm sorry your parents are the way they are. I know what you did took so much courage and you'll probably second-guess yourself for a long time. That's okay. Stand your ground and keep those boundaries firm. You're doing the best thing you could possibly do for your children and yourself. Say it with me now: You are doing the right thing.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Peainthepod, thank you for the book suggestion. I requested it from my library.

I'm not feeling so anxious anymore. The first few days I couldn't do anything, we ate out a lot, I had headaches, and was short with the kids (sorry kids!). Now I'm feeling pretty good, and actually getting excited about being free. Has anyone else felt this way? I'm still certainly grieving, but there's more happiness than sadness.

Any everyone I haven't thanked specifically, you've still helped out tremendously. It was amazing to read so many stories like my own.

The thing that gets me is the fact that my dad refuses to change. I know change is possible, I have changed, so why can't/doesn't he? Blah.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT! You have 100% of my support. It's natural that your family will be upset. You've moved the "mobile" of the family and it's out of whack, but that does NOT make it wrong. They have put up with his behavior (don't ask me why) and your putting your foot down will be-- to them-- a reflection (they will take it as criticism) of their choices.

THANK YOU for being brave enough to do this. I wish more people would. I have no idea why abuse is tolerated in our society.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> If you're still with me at this point, bless you. Please, flood me with support on this, I am so scared about what my dad is going to do and my family is going to do. The last time I did this the support from my family was split and it made it so hard. Obviously, because we let my dad back into our life. I don't want my son to be bullied like that. I've been working very hard to not become abusive and I just can't let my dad be that way. But some of my family tells me I'm blowing it out of proportion and that's just my dad. So, please, again, support me in this!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

You've made an incredibly difficult and brave choice. Your dad has repeatedly shown you throughout your life that he can't be trusted to keep children emotionally and physically safe. You have to look out for your health (mental) and your children's mental and physical well-being. You are breaking a cycle that's hard to break. Good for you.


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## LCBMAX (Jun 18, 2008)

All of the above! And, not only are you a great mom, you're also being a great partner to The Hubby. That you have taken it on yourself to set the necessary limits means you are also protecting him and his fatherly relationship with your kids. So just keep on shining your perfect light!


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## anjsmama (Apr 6, 2011)

OP -

My mom made the same decision to break the cycle of abuse when my siblings and I were very young children. We did not miss our Grandpa (why would we miss such a cruel man?). I am 22, and my grandmother passed away this year. Losing the one individual who put up with all of his B/S for 60 some years changed my Grandpa in ways that other life circumstances just could not. He's 78... and he just learned how to speak kindly to children. He just became involved in my life for the first time ever. I have let him have some (supervised) time with my kids this summer and he was nothing less than doting with them.

You made the right decision. If your dad ever does TRULY change - believe me, you will know it!

Btw... The family pressure (especially from her siblings, and sometimes her mom) was very hard on my Mom over the years. As if it was somehow HER fault that my Grandpa sexually, physically, and verbally abused her as a child, and verbally abused us every time he saw us? The support she got from my dad and from the abuse survivors group at our church were her go-to's during the hard times. Tell your DH how much you need his support in this area.... !








Couldn't be more grateful to my mama for protecting us, and your kids will feel the same way someday.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjsmama*
> 
> OP -
> 
> ...


Yes! The Hubby's area of growth is confrontation, so at this time he isn't able to stand up to my dad. In the past when I wanted him to stand with me on this issue he would rationalize why it was our fault or why it wasn't so bad because he just couldn't do the confrontation. We talked about this the night I called my dad. I told The Hubby that I could be the mouthpiece if he was my support. He agreed wholeheartedly, telling me that he can stand firm in his support if he doesn't need to speak. And if I have his support I can do anything!

So another way this has blessed my life is my relationship with The Hubby has grown so much deeper. We have taken his weakness and turned it into strength.


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## junipermoon (Nov 19, 2008)

I am sorry that your father threatened to spank your son. That is horrible. I'm so sorry he hurt you when you were a little girl. Listen: you are really doing the right thing in setting these boundaries. It's good for your kids and good for you to stand in your courage on this. I applaud you. From my farmhouse, under a full or almost full moon, I am sitting just recognizing you and your struggle and sending you good and supportive vibrations, and I am thanking you, too, for keeping your children safe in ways that you weren't able to experience as a child. Best wishes and kindness to you, mama.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> Yes! This is so true. He can be a fabulous guy, but he can be the worst sort of person, too.
> 
> ...


He said that? I think it is okay to allow a child to experience natural consequences to learn life lessons...a grown up shouldn't be learning behavioral boundaries from a child...as like an experiment. Apart from which, it's sort of like allowing a child to learn the natural consequences of pulling a cat's tail...sure one day the cat might scratch or bite the child or run away and not want to play with them and the child will learn, but in the meantime, what? that cat gets tortured? Or more likely the cat having grown as a kitten in that environment becomes innured to a life of abuse and so it never snaps back at all. Sounds like a dangerous way to try and teach DAD a lesson.

That's really awful. Your brother may need to realize it is his job to protect his daughter not teach his father.

You did the right thing, and clearly your SIL hasn't got much experience in abuse. It's no wonder this is tough. He's your dad. He was supposed to be your superman, your rock. And I am sure in some ways he was. But then he'd turn around and wail you for crying or whathaveyou...so...mixed messages lead to mixed emotions. It's to be expected that you will question this decision plenty...but violence is never okay, not physical or passive violence.

It is unfortunate that he refuses to grow up and be a grandpa. But that's his choice. The only thing you can do is protect your family. You're doing the right thing.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

I thought I would post an update since it's been about a month. It seems so much longer than that.

My dad hasn't contacted me at all. I expected it, but it still hurts like crazy. To me it feels like there is a very strong message of, "You didn't do what I wanted, so I don't even want you as a daughter." You know, 'cause love is conditional and all that. But I'm also relieved that he hasn't tried to talk to me because I just couldn't handle it right now. I'm pretty sure I would have another panic attack if he did try calling.

I've been depressed since my son's birth but this latest thing with my dad and then my son really threw me into a funk and things have been really bad around here. I've started seeing a therapist on Wednesday that specializes in women and depression and I think I really like her. We're starting weekly sessions and I'm excited to start working on things.

Thank you for all the support you've shown me. I'm proud of myself. Also, the outpouring of love my The Hubby's family has been amazing. I'm so blessed to have my in-laws, they are the greatest.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Great update









Im glad your in laws are being awesome. What about your family?


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

My first thought was that I might convince myself that he is respecting my boundaries









This could be filtered through my own experience in which it took a couple of years to convince my parents that I was serious about breaking contact.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> I thought I would post an update since it's been about a month. It seems so much longer than that.
> 
> ...


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## IwannaBanRN (May 27, 2011)

No child or even ADULT should tolerate that behavior, EVER! Good on you and please please stand your ground. If your family can't be supportive of you and want to be completely blind, that's their loss.


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## Katwoman (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*  I know change is possible, I have changed, so why can't/doesn't he? Blah.


Because change is hard and quite often painful. But there is no discomfort for him in his current position. So why would he go from being comfortable and having the world cater to him and throw that away for hard work and painful looking at himself?

I honestly know how you feel and the above is how my DH explains it to me. I don't know if it will help you. Because I get it on an intellectual level, but emotionally it's not always helpful.

I'm sorry you're going through this with your Dad and Brother/SIL. (By the way, her saying because it was hard the first time, you made the wrong choice. It says something about how she's never had to do something difficult. It's your Dad/family, of course it's hard!!)


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## IwannaBanRN (May 27, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> The thing that gets me is the fact that my dad refuses to change. I know change is possible, I have changed, so why can't/doesn't he? Blah.


Because, in his mind, he's not doing anything wrong.


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## Lillitu (Jan 19, 2009)

Huzzah, mama! You are doing the right thing for your kids AND you. I know it is hard. But you have my utmost support and admiration for leaving this toxic situation behind. Good for you!


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## Adia (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh my goodness. This could have been written about my mother. She's mellowed in age though, obviously your dad hasn't.

I have no advice, just a (((hug))) and a vote of confidence that you're doing the right thing. Potentially explosive behaviour is just not something you want around your little guy, especially if he's the kind of kid that sets your dad off


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## IzzyTheTerrible (Sep 24, 2011)

Good for you!

I read every word. I, too, was abused. Physically and emotionally. A year ago, I finally cut my abusive mother out of my life, and it was the best thing I've ever done.

I know that it doesn't feel like it right now, but in the not-too-distant future, you will look back and feel relieved, and empowered. You did the right thing for yourself and for your children. Seeing them is a privilege and a blessing, not a right or a duty.

One thing that strikes me, is that you may be feeling guilty right now. I'm not sure if any of things apply to you but they may be a start to help you on the road to healing:

Boundaries; When to say YES, When to say NO

Codependency No More

Only you know the severity of what you experienced, but this may be something to check out - it's a resource center and support group for those that have an individual with borderline personality disorder in their life (it's rarely ever diagnosed, so don't think it doesn't apply just because he doesn't have a diagnosis) or individuals that display similar traits. - http://www.bpdfamily.com/


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

IzzyTheTerrible, you've been great! Sorry, couldn't resist the pun. I'll check out those resources, I've already read Codependency No More and it's VERY applicable to my life. I must read it again.

I do feel guilty, but intellectually I know I did the right thing. In my therapy right now we're working on changing my feelings through thought. I hope it works because, dangit, it just feels like I'm telling myself lies to make me feel better. But I'm sure I need a bit of time, I've only had three sessions so far.

Speaking of severity of what I've lived through, I often downplay my abuse because, well, he didn't burn me or cut me or rape me so it must have not been THAT bad. Is that normal to feel like your abuse wasn't bad enough?


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## IzzyTheTerrible (Sep 24, 2011)

Yeah, that's actually the typical reaction for people that were physically or even just emotionally abused.

The way that my therapist explained it to me is that children cannot fathom the world being a dangerous or chaotic place. So if mommy or daddy hurts them - in any way - physically, emotionally, mentally or sexually - the only thing that makes sense is that we must have done something wrong to deserve it. We are being punished. Therefore what he was doing wasn't that bad, because we deserved it.

So we grow up feeling like everything is normal, and that we're just bad kids or else daddy wouldn't call me stupid, or hit me then tell me to stop crying like a baby... but then we grow into adulthood and of course we know that certain behaviors are NOT acceptable, and we start piecing things together... but as children it seemed normal, so it's very difficult to differenciate between what felt like a normal (albeit painful) childhood and this new information we have but those early feelings still trickle over into adulthood.

Plus we have so many good memories, coupled with the bad ones, that its very difficult to fathom such horrors when there were times when they were fantastic.

If you have any religious background, Boundaries: When to say yes, and when to say no will help you with the guilt aspect and was beyond monumental in accepting that I did have the right to say no if it made me feel uncomfortable.

But two things that helped me was to remember that

1. Even monsters have some good in them, just like good people have a little monster in them too. So I didn't have to think of my mom as a monster to recognize the monstrous things she did, (Although I do now call her momster) and, like I said, it helps to remember that even monsters can do good things.

2. It doesn't matter if what they did was wrong, or if they're bad, or good, or whatever the case may be... if you feel uncomfortable (like you mentioned, your panic attack is a PTSD symptom), then YOU have the right to say no. Regardless of what anyone says, it made/makes YOU feel uncomfortable and you are an adult that is empowered to accept into her life what SHE wants, not what other people say you should have. Your father has NO right, NONE to spank or threaten your children, and he doesn't have a right to do it to you either, and I'm sure he still does in subtle ways.

Imagine a young girl that you care about (around the age that your inner child feels) is telling you about the horrible things her father said, and did and they were what your father said/did... would you downplay it then? Or would you have compassion for her hurt?

You deserve that same compassion and tenderness.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> Speaking of severity of what I've lived through, I often downplay my abuse because, well, he didn't burn me or cut me or rape me so it must have not been THAT bad. Is that normal to feel like your abuse wasn't bad enough?


yes -- that's totally normal. I spent time in group therapy and shared the exact same thought, and woman whose father did such horrific things to her that I won't post them because they could be triggers, looked me in the eye and said:

"If you are dead, it doesn't really matter if you got hit by a truck or a motorcycle"

You got hit by a motorcycle, yes, some people do get hit by trucks. But you still deserve to heal and feel good. What he did was wrong, and you did the right thing by standing up for your child and stopping the cycle. You did the right thing *for yourself* by not leaving yourself in a position to hear his crap over and over. He's needed to be told that he's out of line for decades, and you did it.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

"that's just dad" -- yeah, it is "just him," but that doesn't mean his behavior is harmless or acceptable. You're doing the right thing, and you are SO brave to be doing it. DH's family is similiarly codependent, and the only reason I'm not here posting about how to cut my in-laws out of our lives is b/c we live more than 4 hours from them. They ignore me, I ignore them and DH can deal with their abuse if he so chooses. But I refuse to be involved with them, and will never allow them to treat my son the way they treat theirs.


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## jimblejamble (May 18, 2007)

This might be an unpopular view, but in my opinion, just because you're related to someone doesn't mean you have to let them be a part of your life, especially if they make you miserable. Good for you for standing up for your values and protecting your children!


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

My dad used to be pretty similar to yours, OP--very nasty and cruel (verbally) to my firstborn. I don't want to bog you down with the details, but fast-forward twelve years--two of which we didn't speak, and during the last of which my mother passed away--and things are sooo much different. My dad's 73, and while he's still not perfect, he's also not toxic to my children anymore. Losing my mom made him really think about things deeply--and us not speaking for two years made him a good bit more cautious around my family once we "came back".

It's really painful and sometimes complicated to have to put your foot down, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong choice--not by a long shot! You've gotten some really good advice in this thread already. SO glad to hear of others breaking the cycle of abuse


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## IwannaBanRN (May 27, 2011)

This baby's dad was emotionally abusive, and I often feel like(and he also put this in my head) since I never got hit or beaten that it "wasn't that bad" or "it could be fixed". He wasn't a bad guy, it was just HOW he was wired. Well, the way he was wired wasn't good. I'm glad you're sticking to your guns on this, Lazurii. If any relationship you're in serves to be draining or belittling to you or those you love, you need to cut them off. I just recently cut off my dad and his side of the family. They are all high-and-mighty, judgmental, emotionally abusive people, and I want nothing to do with it. My dad isn't so bad anymore, but the damage really has already been done and he's got 2 stepkids he adopted years ago that he can look after. I needed a dad when I was a kid and when I walked down the isle, so I knew what healthy parenting was and I never got that. Your kids don't need to see your dad's version of "good parenting". Because it's NOT. His parenting skills would leave most sane mothers' jaws on the floor with how horrible you describe him to be.


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## Katwoman (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Lazurii* 


> Speaking of severity of what I've lived through, I often downplay my abuse because, well, he didn't burn me or cut me or rape me so it must have not been THAT bad. Is that normal to feel like your abuse wasn't bad enough?


I think it's very normal. For me, I felt like other people had it so much worse than I did, I didn't have a right to complain or feel sorry for myself.

It's amazing what the human mind will come up with, when it's trying to make the world not as bad as it is.


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## rebecca_n (Nov 1, 2010)

-nak


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## modifiedmama (Dec 14, 2010)

My mother brutally abused me for fifteen years. (I won't go into detail, don't want to trigger any bad memories for anyone.) I haven't spoken to her in seven years and I am so much better for it. I cannot possibly make amends with her after what she put me through. Family IS family, but sometimes even they don't belong in your life. It is sad, but it is the truth. Hugs for you! Your son sounds like an absolute JOY by the way, and you are doing a GREAT job raising him, IMO!


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## SpottedFoxx (Feb 8, 2010)

You are an absolute warrior! Kudos for you for protecting yourself and your family.

Every family has legacies. From silly holiday customs, to work ethic, to love of family, to religion. Other legacies can and do include physical, emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse. As parents, we all have an opportunity to choose what legacies we want to share with our children. Not everyone has the ability to see the big picture and make a conscious choice. Unfortunately, all too often, parents just do things because "that's how they grew up and they're just fine". IMHO, it takes an intelligent and caring parent to make a conscious decision to end a legacy. You have making a choice to end the cycle of abuse. You deserve hugs and pats on the back. Your children's future friends, lovers and spouses will thank you for it. Heck, the world is a better place now because of your decision.


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## thewildcards (Dec 11, 2011)

You are breaking the cycle, two generations deep. Good for you.


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

You did the right thing! Keeping your child safe is the only way to go. And by setting a boundary to keep a toxic dad OUT, you are modeling boundary-setting for your son. You sound like you are in a similar situation to me.....trying to STOP a family "tradition" of violence and finding another way. It is HARD.

Sounds like you already know what NOT to do, but it's hard to start when you don't know what TO do. If you are interested in any recommendations to leave behind parenting from anger & fear and switch to parenting from connection and love, send me a private message and I can refer you to some resources that helped me.


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## ThankfulMama (Dec 1, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FrugalGranolaMom*
> 
> You are absolutely in the right with your decision. The welfare of your children is what's important and you are doing what is right for them.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

You did the right thing. (((hugs)))


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Everyone, thank you for resurrecting this thread at this time, I really needed it. My mom is starting into pressuring me again to come back to the family because I'm sure she's getting pressure from my dad. Oh well.

Sorry, not much to add but my thanks. And I am very grateful for all the love you guys have shown me.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yeah, the holidays bring that out in people, and we're all especially susceptible to guilt this time of year. Stay strong for yourself and your family. You ARE doing the right thing.


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## romanianndnmama (Dec 16, 2011)

You've received much advice on this thread but I would like to send you a hug of support. I've had stuggles with family members also and it is so confusing and hurtful.


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## lovepickles (Nov 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> Everyone, thank you for resurrecting this thread at this time, I really needed it. My mom is starting into pressuring me again to *come back to the family* because I'm sure she's getting pressure from my dad. Oh well.
> 
> Sorry, not much to add but my thanks. And I am very grateful for all the love you guys have shown me.


Gotta love that wording ... as if YOU were OUT of the family. Ridiculous.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lovepickles*
> 
> Gotta love that wording ... as if YOU were OUT of the family. Ridiculous.


Basically that's how it is to my mom. She asks me what she's supposed to do because she's supposed to cleave to her husband and support him but she doesn't like what he's doing. But she still supports him. 'Cause she married him.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Did she miss the next parts of Paul's letters on the Christian household?

Colossians 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Colossians 3:21 Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

OK, so I think that Paul's letters are rife with the culture of the times and do not interpret them as saying I need to be submissive to my husband (in fact I took the word "obey" out of our wedding vows because I hated it so much). But, if you are going to follow Paul's letters, then the father has to too.

Hang tough momma! You know that your dad isn't going to change. You know that your mom has a skewed view of the world from putting up with his junk all these years. You are the parent of your child. Your primary job is to keep them safe. It's not to please your parents. It's hard, I know. But you're breaking the cycle.

Can you block your mom's calls for a week or so until the stress of the holidays is over?


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Thank you for standing strong and breaking the cycle of abuse.

What sucks is that victims of abuse usually want, more than anything else, for the abuser to just acknowledge that what they did was wrong. And if there's a single trait that units all abusers, it's a total and utter lack of ability to take responsibility for their own actions and emotions. It's always, without fail, somebody else's fault, and therefore, it's not their own fault. There's really no reasoning with them. It's so incredibly frustrating, but that's the way it is. You can't make them stop being abusive, any more than you can stop an alcoholic from drinking. All you can control is your own reaction to them, and the best way to do that is to set boundaries -- which you're doing, beautifully. I hope you really deeply know and believe how strong you are for protecting your babies in this way. It's a breathtakingly fierce and strong act of love for your children. Hang onto that strength.


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## *MamaJen* (Apr 24, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> Basically that's how it is to my mom. She asks me what she's supposed to do because she's supposed to cleave to her husband and support him but she doesn't like what he's doing. But she still supports him. 'Cause she married him.


I'm going to hazard a guess and say that it's actually because she's codependent.

By the way, here's a good list of resources about abuse. A lot of it is more about partner violence, but there's some resources about toxic or abusive parents as well: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1130804/surviving-abuse-forum-rules-and-guidelines#post_16046822


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## lovepickles (Nov 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> Basically that's how it is to my mom. She asks me what she's supposed to do because she's supposed to cleave to her husband and support him but she doesn't like what he's doing. But she still supports him. 'Cause she married him.


Sorry if I came off as insensitive. I also stopped talking to my father. Some supported me and some didn't but i found a place where I didn't need my family's support because I knew I did the right thing ... well my psychologist helped but I had already made the decision. My sister still talks to him and we have an agreement that we don't discuss him and we respect our differing opinions and find other things to discuss. We both acknowledge that we have a different relationship with him. I have my own thoughts on why she continues to speak with him but I don't put her in a position that would make it OUR issue. Our father as a topic has been blacklisted. I am also prepared emotionally for her to share life altering news with me about him, such as his death or a life debilitating illness ... to which I would respond with empathy to her about the loss of HER father as I would any friend ... but he is not my father and his topic will never again be a personal one for me.

So in regard to your mother she is making it an issue between the two of you and that isn't healthy. In this situation I would reinforce to your mother that you love her and care for her immensely but your father is no longer a topic for discussion. Burn that, quickly or your father will use it as a tool to manipulate you. If your mother is too weak to enforce it with your father you'll need to communicate the message through your mother that the matter is no longer open for discussion. Do not cut off your mother unless she is too far gone to respect your wish not to discuss your father. Hopefully it won't come to that but make no apologies to your mother about your father.

Find something NEW to do with your mother that is healthy and doesn't require any references to your father. When she brings up your father say "Hey Mom, I know you have a different relationship with Dad but I've made the decision to keep him out of my life. In order for me to hold to that I need all discussion about him to be kept out of our interaction (especially with children). I hope you understand that I want you in my life so long as that can be respected." Honestly you are helping her out too because she will no longer be used as a messenger. You might have to remind her a few times and end the conversation with love but it should sink in. That usually sounds like "Hey Mom I can't talk about dad with you or go anywhere that he is. I love you." Then change the subject or end the conversation. The trick is to have enough presence of mind to remind her that you care about her.

Don't be a shoulder for her to lean on regarding your father either. She may be tempted to tell you everything bad about him. Resist that urge and keep him completely OUT of your discussions.


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## cmz84 (Dec 7, 2011)

My husband's father was also verbally/emotionally abusive. At one point we know that he aimed a loaded gun at my MIL while she was sleeping. My husband made the decision that his dad wasn't going to be a part of our, or our children's life.

My son was born 16 months ago and we have kept our promise not to allow DH's father into his life. They have never met and hopefully never will. DH's family is not supportive of our decision, they consistently say things like "he's your father so it doesn't matter what he did to you" (Yeah--can you believe that?!) and because of that, we've basically cut them out of our life too.

You have to do whatever you need to do to protect your little ones because they're ultimately what is the most important. Good for you for standing up for them (since they can't do it themselves) and telling your father how it's going to be. I know that had to be incredibly difficult and probably will continue to be difficult. You're doing the right thing, even if it is hard. I'm so glad your husband agrees with you and hope that his family is supportive of you even if yours isn't.


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