# Diapering Mamas - Please Read



## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

A very real part of diapering is the purchase of diapers, quality of product, shipping, communication between buyer and seller, and other customer service issues. All of this brings questions of reputation, personal character, equity, and just plain decency into the experience for both buyer and seller. We realize this clearly and want very much to provide the MDC community with the information and guidance to help make purchasing decisions. But we also realize that a thread about an individual experience can be disasterous for the other party whose character and behavior is being discussed, even anonymously, whether WAHM or non-WAHM.

While we want the MDC Diapering community to be able to benefit from the wisdom that abounds here amongst the experienced diapering members, we have found these threads to be very difficult to moderate when they do arise. Our guidelines against discussions of personal issues between members and customer service complaints restricts such discussions.

To help bring some balance into this we would like to offer what we can to uphold a comfortable atmosphere for all of our members while providing them the desired input for their resolution processes. Giving thought to how we can make this happen in a more beneficial manner here's what we have in mind.

We'd like to setup a panel of members who will, as a team, be our "Diapering Advisory" so to speak. These members will be volunteers - WAHM members and non-WAHM members - with ample diapering knowledge and purchase and sales experience.

This will be a grievance committee where a member may take her (or his) issue with a WAHM or other member transaction to the committee for advice. No names would be permitted in the complaint, just the specifics of the case. The panel members will remain anonymous as will the member with the grievance.

Issues may be presented by posting to the designated board where the post will be reviewed and approved then placed on the board for the volunteer panel members to respond to, offering their opinions, advice, and suggestions. The thread will be public for everyone to read but participation will be limited to the member submitting the complaint and the volunteer panel members.

We'd like your input on this idea. Of course our usual discussions of diapering will continue but we will be insisting that clear issues of this nature pass through this new "Advisory" or to the Reviews board, depending on the need and circumstance.

~Cynthia


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm kind of confused as to what things couldn't be said. This is all kind of new to me. If you are looking for advice, can members offer name brands that worked for them? Also if you have had a good experience with a certain brand, is it improper to mention such? I just want to clarify what I'm not suppose to discuss on the board. This will be my first time cding and I am full of questions!

Thank you,
Angela


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## ChaiBee (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Holli*
I'm honestly confused about the purpose.

Would we still be able to post honest reviews in the review section--positive or negative?

If so, what's the point? Is this just for the people who post the threads that say "Do you think this is bad quality or am I too picky?"

I mean.. I'm a big girl. I can handle grievances all by myself. I don't need a committee acting between me and the WAHM. If I don't like the outcome, I should be able to post an objective review of my experience. If I do like the outcome, I should also be able to do that.

I just don't see the benefit of posting anonymously to some special board of people.

I'm just honestly perplexed.

Holli

You're not the only one!! (And ITA!).


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## mermommy (Aug 16, 2004)

Another ITA with Holli.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

Another agreement for Holli.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Reviews will still be posted to the Reviews board under the existing criteria.

Seeking advice about what works and what doesn't work for you would still be an appropriate thread of discussion for Diapering.

Complaints about a purchase and other customer service issues that are seeking input and advice on how one should handle things ( for example, "This is what has happened. What would you do?" and yes, the example you gave Holli) would be the sort of thing that would fit into this proposed idea. We've had numerous threads of this nature arise and while some of you may have entirely no need for such a panel's advice and suggestions, we're thinking others might welcome the idea


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

To be honest that is my concern. I am literally inlove with what this site has brought to my life. I feel confident in my ability to do things 2 months ago I would never have dreamed of! (Tearing up a bit) I now will be using cd, cloth mama pads, and delivering a drug free baby(unmedicated). This would not have been possible without the honest input of all of the wonderful mamas here. I read a ton of posts (you could say I am addicted!) and I have found situations where a product didn't work for their individual situation. I have to say though that I haven't found a lot of bad mouthing or trash talk about products/services. I own my own business and I do realize the importance of word of mouth. Maybe we could have an automatic email go out to business owner regarding comments about their product. That would give them a chance to post a reply if they wish to do so.

I think all of us realize that we are all human. You may love it. I may hate it. We all have our days. People should be honest with their posts, but not be hateful.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

I wouldn't use the panel. I also feel that I can handle my WAHMshopping myself, and any issues that arise. When I've been disappointed with service or quality, I simply leave reviews and don't shop there again. Sometimes members post about their quality concerns because they aren't experienced WAHM-shoppers and are wondering if they are just being too picky or if the quality that was delivered to them is unacceptable and they should try to take the WAHM on her return policy. I think that should be allowed. The 'what would you do' threads re: service issues with a WAHM are perhaps more potentially damaging to the WAHM (even if she's unnamed)'s reputation, and perhaps should be restricted.

Good luck figuring everything out and trying to keep people's reputations from being unnecessarily slandered as well as allowing for as free a discourse as possible on this board!


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

I think its a good idea for a middle ground. If I read it right.. it wouldnt be a board that was to handle greivances between a WAHM and a customer... but would offer advice if needed.. and it could be read by everyone? The type of posts that "should" be fine on the diapering board.. but always turn into negative discussions would be hosted there? For example:

"am I being too picky, or would you call this a second"
"how long is it reasonable to expect a response from a WAHM"
"how long is a reasonable custom order wait"
etc etc .... along with somewhat specific situations as long as the parties remain names.. correct?

If thats what it is... I think its definately a compromise that should be attempted. While most people know what they should do if a CS issues arises.. obviously some want advice because we get those type of posts allthe time.

JMO







Thank you to cynthia and the mods for trying to find something to make everyone happy!


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## vkberes (Jun 26, 2004)

I also agree with Holli.

I think it is great that there is a diapering review board to get an idea about a product but it is frustrating that there is no where to vent about general complaints when buying diapers. I agree that it is best to keep business/product names out of it but I thought it was unfortunate that the recent thread about general complaints was locked. People were being respectful and just getting our their thoughts. I really can't think of anything else to say but that IMHO it is absurd since buying diapers is such a large part of this board.

Can these general types of threads be allowed in the diapering review area? I think it will cloud the purpose of that board but where else can it be done?

ETA: It takes me too long to post and I see that Cynthia answered my question. I still don't like the idea. It seems too restrictive to me that only a panel could respond. I really don't like that idea because I appreciate everyone's input, not just a select few.


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change.

HEY! WHO MOVED MY CHEESE???

Alright, if the powers that be want to, go for it. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, but I hope others find it useful.


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## ryansmom02 (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
I think its a good idea for a middle ground. If I read it right.. it wouldnt be a board that was to handle greivances between a WAHM and a customer... but would offer advice if needed.. and it could be read by everyone? The type of posts that "should" be fine on the diapering board.. but always turn into negative discussions would be hosted there? For example:

"am I being too picky, or would you call this a second"
"how long is it reasonable to expect a response from a WAHM"
"how long is a reasonable custom order wait"
etc etc .... along with somewhat specific situations as long as the parties remain names.. correct?

If thats what it is... I think its definately a compromise that should be attempted. While most people know what they should do if a CS issues arises.. obviously some want advice because we get those type of posts allthe time.

JMO







Thank you to cynthia and the mods for trying to find something to make everyone happy!


I agree with Tif. to many times we are only hearing one side of the story and I think that makes it hard to make a correct judgement. So use the panel if you like and if not well then DONT............ It is a resource to make things go smoothly on the boards....... It seems like every one thinks this is for if you for example have an issue with your poop catcher #129 you dont go to the panel and say the WAHM who make the said poop catcher sent me crap and i want you to fix it........... it is to help decide when an issue can be posted with out breaking the rules. (sorry hold a sick feverish toddler.)


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

vkberes, which thread are you referring tto? Maybe I can explain why the decision was made to lock it and you can better understand our concerns.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:

It seems too restrictive to me that only a panel could respond. I really don't like that idea because I appreciate everyone's input, not just a select few.










Also I think a WWYD situation wouldn't help. If there is a WAHM not responding to emails that has been emailed again and again. Why is it wrong to post about it? Basically It seems like your saying she must be protected but I feel like us as buyers should also be protected and if there is a complaint I don't see the harm in it being posted.

Maybe there could be another type of forum for those types of issues besides the reviews and the posts could be moderated before being posted KWIM? Allowing everyone to read and respond.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

I think she maybe talking about Stacy's. No names were mentioned and it was all really general. I didn't get why it was closed.


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## steelmagnolia4 (Apr 10, 2003)

Are you serious? :LOL

Oh this is just the most fantastic idea to come down the pike since snap in doublers









How 'bout y'all try less moderation and letting adults be adults.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spark*
I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change. I won't resist change.

HEY! WHO MOVED MY CHEESE???

Alright, if the powers that be want to, go for it. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, but I hope others find it useful.

















: I loved that little book. You are hilarious.


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Havent read all the posts but is there any value/interest in a "negative feedback" forum/thread. Similar to amitymama.com. For WAHMs, trades, etc. As opposed to searching for each WAHM/person individually.


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## vkberes (Jun 26, 2004)

Quote:

think she maybe talking about Stacy's. No names were mentioned and it was all really general. I didn't get why it was closed.
Yes, it was Stacy's.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Mary, it would be fine if the member posted that as a Review. That's where things of that nature belong. But they don't belong on the Diapering board. In Reviews the business and product is stated clearly and serves to protect members.

In threads it's a different story and often turns nasty as the individual is being posted about. That's a general no-no. And if you don't identify the business or member then how will the community benefit from the information?

Please keep your comments respectful. Your input is welcome but bland negativity is of no benefit to anyone or in anyway helpful.


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## ChristinaB (Apr 14, 2004)

I think it is a wonderful idea and I am interested in seeing how it plays out. Unfortunately, the "let's all be adults" thing doesn't work so something has to, hopefully!


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

i have to say i have been very disappointed with this boards touchiness of peoples posts. we are a community of mothers here...not politicians or businessmen...we are really trying to be here for one another to HELP and answer questions/share experiences. i think it stinks when someone, who OBVIOUSLY needs some imput about what to do w/a bad CS experience can't ask other people here...even when they DON'T use a name! who am i gonna ask..my 10 friends IRL who DON'T CD? well gee, thanks. that's why i came here - to be a part of something i can't get IRL. and then i find i can't actually get it here. it's a censored community after all. and i don't think anyone has been unfair by posting pics and/or experiences and asking "what's your opinio" to the GENERAL population of mamas. i don't just want my answers from a selected group of WAHM's (who, sorry...may be a bit biased) or what you may call "experienced" shoppers. so what if i'm inexperienced - i spend the same green cash "experienced" mamas do and my views may be different than theirs but it doesn't make my views any less valuable.

it almost sounds to me like the general consensus is...let us just BE! as long as no one is directly saying "ABC diapers suck and jane doe is stupid" what is the real problem? why are you (MDC) more concerned w/protecting the WAHM's than US, the mamas who make up this community? noone is TRYING to ruin reputations. we are just trying to dialogue which is what i came here for in thw first place. and it doesn't seem to make sense to keep things so "hush hush" here ar diapering if you can, "legally" just go over to the reviews and say "ABC sucks" anyway. who has time to peruse 15 different boards for a nugget of info on someone? but ok, if reviews are to stay reviews, fine but why NOT let us share anonymous details of a transaction and ask WWYD? it's obviously what we all want.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Jenny - I think the problem with lets just BE is that currently NO CS issues are allowed on the general diapering boards at all. So right now people cant ask general Customer Service questions... I would be very surprised if we were able to change MDC's mind regarding that and just letting the CS on the board ... I dont think they are willing. hence why I think they came up with the compromise


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## ryansmom02 (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
Jenny - I think the problem with lets just BE is that currently NO CS issues are allowed on the general diapering boards at all. So right now people cant ask general Customer Service questions... I would be very surprised if we were able to change MDC's mind regarding that and just letting the CS on the board ... I dont think they are willing. hence why I think they came up with the compromise









Once again i must agree with you........ I think it is a good idea.........


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## jmreinke (Jan 1, 2003)

I appreciate the move by the powers that be to resolve a tough issue.

I am confused though, and maybe I need to read the original post again...

If posts of a "What should I do nature" are not allowed on the general diapering board because it can hurt the WAHM, then how would that be different on another public board? I can understand the separate board if it were private, and each thread was only open to the original person with the concern, with the input of the board. But what is the difference between putting these posts on a public advisory board vs. the main board, except that everybody can't post to them.

Everybody could still read these posts, and just like they do now, figure out who the WAHM is, and then, since the new board is heavily moderated, there is nobody to respond such as "maybe they were in a hurricane and just can't get your package out". The only thing people would see is "I'm having this problem" and without any helpful discussion, only the "bad" side is put forward.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here. Sorry.

ETA: I just wanted to add that CS issues are discussed on the diapering board everyday. Posts that say "Hey, this diaper and the WAHM are great!" are always on the boards, and they aren't locked. If you were to put the opposite word into these posts, then they would be shut down in a heart beat. So, it seems to me that only negative CS issues are not allowed on the board - but the policy states that no CS issues are to be dicsussed.

I appreciate the paradox, and I like hearing when people like certain diapers. These posts HAVE benefitted my biz, so I'm not saying to get rid of them. It just seems like there is a double standard to CS posts, that I'm not sure this new board would solve.

Good luck! Glad I'm not a mod.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
i have to say i have been very disappointed with this boards touchiness of peoples posts. we are a community of mothers here...not politicians or businessmen...we are really trying to be here for one another to HELP and answer questions/share experiences. i think it stinks when someone, who OBVIOUSLY needs some imput about what to do w/a bad CS experience can't ask other people here...even when they DON'T use a name! who am i gonna ask..my 10 friends IRL who DON'T CD? well gee, thanks. that's why i came here - to be a part of something i can't get IRL. and then i find i can't actually get it here. it's a censored community after all. and i don't think anyone has been unfair by posting pics and/or experiences and asking "what's your opinio" to the GENERAL population of mamas. i don't just want my answers from a selected group of WAHM's (who, sorry...may be a bit biased) or what you may call "experienced" shoppers. so what if i'm inexperienced - i spend the same green cash "experienced" mamas do and my views may be different than theirs but it doesn't make my views any less valuable.

it almost sounds to me like the general consensus is...let us just BE! as long as no one is directly saying "ABC diapers suck and jane doe is stupid" what is the real problem? why are you (MDC) more concerned w/protecting the WAHM's than US, the mamas who make up this community? noone is TRYING to ruin reputations. we are just trying to dialogue which is what i came here for in thw first place. and it doesn't seem to make sense to keep things so "hush hush" here ar diapering if you can, "legally" just go over to the reviews and say "ABC sucks" anyway. who has time to peruse 15 different boards for a nugget of info on someone? but ok, if reviews are to stay reviews, fine but why NOT let us share anonymous details of a transaction and ask WWYD? it's obviously what we all want.


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
In threads it's a different story and often turns nasty as the individual is being posted about. That's a general no-no. And if you don't identify the business or member then how will the community benefit from the information?

Please keep your comments respectful. Your input is welcome but bland negativity is of no benefit to anyone or in anyway helpful.


and i have to add: i don't agree w/the first part of this. i don't see these posts turn nasty. i see people say things like "yes...i DO agree that this is not a great sewing job and i would ask for my money back". i have never heard anyone say "well those are just ugly and that WAHM must be an idiot and let's never shop fro her again..." i read what sounds like desperate mamas asking "am i being too picky"...we'd all like to think that we have enough confidence to directly say to a WAHM "i am not satisfied" and that would solve the problem but 1) not everyone is this assertive and 2) if we HAVE tried and STILL get no help from a WAHM, what do we do?

and as for the second part of your comment...i'm sorry but i do think a degree of negativity can be helpful. again, not comments like "that's ugly" but things like, "i'm sorry but i think adding brown lace to a wool soaker w/uneven legs is really bad taste" IS helpful! if i'm a mama who has never ordered a soaker and i get my 1st one and think "gee, is this what they ALL look like? and even if they do, is this one made poorly?" well, i wanna ask some friends. trust me, if i'm wearing an ugly outfit i WANT my DH to be honest and say "that's ugly". anyway, most mamas here try to be positive but you just can't ALWAYS be so.

don't get me wrong; i love it here and want to continue to come back but i also would love to see more openness. cynthia, you asked for our opinions and we're letting you know. please don't criticize them. it seems the diapering board IS a good place for respectful discussions, not some kind of "panel". JMO.


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
Jenny - I think the problem with lets just BE is that currently NO CS issues are allowed on the general diapering boards at all. So right now people cant ask general Customer Service questions... I would be very surprised if we were able to change MDC's mind regarding that and just letting the CS on the board ... I dont think they are willing. hence why I think they came up with the compromise










yeah, i know. i guess what i was saying is LET us discuss CS stuff. respectfully, yes. but let us talk. we're women, mams, friends. let us be that. please.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:

yeah, i know. i guess what i was saying is LET us discuss CS stuff. respectfully, yes. but let us talk. we're women, mams, friends. let us be that. please








I agree... I'd like to see the board be open to respectful CS discussion as well. I guess im just a pesimist and dont see it happening :LOL


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmreinke*
I appreciate the move by the powers that be to resolve a tough issue.

I am confused though, and maybe I need to read the original post again...

If posts of a "What should I do nature" are not allowed on the general diapering board because it can hurt the WAHM, then how would that be different on another public board? I can understand the separate board if it were private, and each thread was only open to the original person with the concern, with the input of the board. But what is the difference between putting these posts on a public advisory board vs. the main board, except that everybody can't post to them.

Everybody could still read these posts, and just like they do now, figure out who the WAHM is, and then, since the new board is heavily moderated, there is nobody to respond such as "maybe they were in a hurricane and just can't get your package out". The only thing people would see is "I'm having this problem" and without any helpful discussion, only the "bad" side is put forward.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here. Sorry.

ETA: I just wanted to add that CS issues are discussed on the diapering board everyday. Posts that say "Hey, this diaper and the WAHM are great!" are always on the boards, and they aren't locked. If you were to put the opposite word into these posts, then they would be shut down in a heart beat. So, it seems to me that only negative CS issues are not allowed on the board - but the policy states that no CS issues are to be dicsussed.

I appreciate the paradox, and I like hearing when people like certain diapers. These posts HAVE benefitted my biz, so I'm not saying to get rid of them. It just seems like there is a double standard to CS posts, that I'm not sure this new board would solve.

Good luck! Glad I'm not a mod.










that's how i saw it too. it's just another board. the difference, it seems, is that the gen pop. or mamas can't answer. but i don't know how that's any better.


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## norcalmommy (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
that's how i saw it too. it's just another board. the difference, it seems, is that the gen pop. or mamas can't answer. but i don't know how that's any better.

People can always use pm's. This already happens with issues around here when mamas don't want to post their opinions publicly. With this view only forum, we could still give input to the person asking the question, just in a private manner so it doesn't hurt the WAHM involved. I know a lot of these threads are posted "anonymously," but in our little diapering community things can usually be tracked down to the parties involved.


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## bgirl (Jun 23, 2004)

i haven't read all replies yet, but thought I'd quickly add in my 2c worth before I logg off (and then read the posts)...

it sounds like the mods are trying hard to reach a compromise - however, I have to say, it's really sad that there have to be so many rules on what to post or not to post. It's all getting quite complicated.

I agree with someone's suggestion about sending the link to the specific thread to the WAHM mama so she can respond to whatever the complaint was. Besides, if it was a genuine mistake, then she has an opportunity to make amends appropriately (which can only be good publicity). If I was a WAHM, I would be proud of my products and would welcome tips on how I can improve my products/CS. If a customer isn't happy I'd want to know about it.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I thought you were going to define what "customer service" issues actually are for us, but your post not only doesn't do that, but you seem to want to expand prohibited areas of posting beyond customer service into what you are calling "product quality".

I think that product quality, whether it is about the design of a diaper, how the fabric wears, or perceptions of its absorbency (and bunches of other things, like how pretty it is), is very different than customer service. Customer service (to me, and I have found no definition of customer service anywhere here) is about how the WAHM delivers the product, starting with communication around purchasing or custom ideas, to shipping a completed order, to interacting with her around problems with that order. The product that she delivers should be fair game for discussion on this board, and my concern is that you are trying to cut out even more reasonable discussion on this board.

If I understand your post correctly, then if I were to post a thread with a title something like "tell me about your experiences with ABC diapers" and someone replied that the diaper wasn't very absorbent, or that the soaker didn't quite fit in the diaper shell, or that the fabric faded quickly, etc etc, you would pull this thread and then this board would have to approve it and what not.

If that's truly what you have in mind, then I can't support such a move. If we can't talk about the quality of diapers, what we like and don't like in a diaper, then I can't imagine posting here. All that will be left is post after post about who's stocking and who got what at what stalking and posts of babes in diapers and while all of those posts are fine, if that's all there is then I think you'd lose most of the value of this place.

I would really like to see you clearly defined what "customer service" issues are and are not, and for those to be distinguished from discussions about a product. If discussions about product quality are going to be prohibited in your proposal, then I would not support it.

Karla


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmreinke*
I appreciate the move by the powers that be to resolve a tough issue.

I am confused though, and maybe I need to read the original post again...

If posts of a "What should I do nature" are not allowed on the general diapering board because it can hurt the WAHM, then how would that be different on another public board? I can understand the separate board if it were private, and each thread was only open to the original person with the concern, with the input of the board. But what is the difference between putting these posts on a public advisory board vs. the main board, except that everybody can't post to them.

Everybody could still read these posts, and just like they do now, figure out who the WAHM is, and then, since the new board is heavily moderated, there is nobody to respond such as "maybe they were in a hurricane and just can't get your package out". The only thing people would see is "I'm having this problem" and without any helpful discussion, only the "bad" side is put forward.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here. Sorry.

ETA: I just wanted to add that CS issues are discussed on the diapering board everyday. Posts that say "Hey, this diaper and the WAHM are great!" are always on the boards, and they aren't locked. If you were to put the opposite word into these posts, then they would be shut down in a heart beat. So, it seems to me that only negative CS issues are not allowed on the board - but the policy states that no CS issues are to be dicsussed.

I appreciate the paradox, and I like hearing when people like certain diapers. These posts HAVE benefitted my biz, so I'm not saying to get rid of them. It just seems like there is a double standard to CS posts, that I'm not sure this new board would solve.

Good luck! Glad I'm not a mod.










I totally agree with this. I know Ive said this many times, but I also co-own a board so I can put myself in your place and we do have a few rules and our members follow them but we also have very little rules and I havent had to deal with 1 problem since we've gone public when it comes to arguements and such. Not One. Maybe my board is the minority, I dunno but I just dont think so, we have a lot of passionate girls.

My point is that, there are so many rules here that I cannot keep up with what I can and cannot do and than when I do break a rule, I feel like a NAUGHTY NAUGHTY shamed school girl and its just so silly. I understand protecting WAHM's and trying to protect your members but have you tried cutting a few strings to see just how well we handle it? We might surprise you, after all we are adults.







Why not try for a week to see what happens?

I also dont see much point in the possible new board. I think when people post issues, they want diverse opinions and having a specified panel member isnt a very diverse opinion as its onlyone opinion and therefore I just dont think they'd bother posting anything at all. Maybe thats your point? I dont know!

I am NOT critisizing and Im NOT trying to be negative but you asked for opinions and this is mine. Take it the way you'd like it and if you don't you can throw it out with the cats (like Ive said before). I just hope my opinion is somewhat beneficial to you. Im glad your asking opinions, I know a lot of us have been wanting to get these out for along time!!!








Peace and Love (Oh and Cloth)

Lindsay


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## averymybaby (Jun 14, 2004)

What Karla said.







Customer Service issues must be CLEARLY defined. Maybe try that first before more restrictions come into play. I know there's a "Sticky" and all that but obviously there are still gray areas that need to be worked out. Can we try that first?


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## ChaiBee (May 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*

it almost sounds to me like the general consensus is...let us just BE! as long as no one is directly saying "ABC *diapers suck and jane doe is stupid" what is the real problem? why are you (MDC) more concerned w/protecting the WAHM's than US, the mamas who make up this community?* noone is TRYING to ruin reputations. we are just trying to dialogue which is what i came here for in thw first place. and it doesn't seem to make sense to keep things so "hush hush" here ar diapering if you can, "legally" just go over to the reviews and say "ABC sucks" anyway. who has time to peruse 15 different boards for a nugget of info on someone? but ok, if reviews are to stay reviews, fine but why NOT let us share anonymous details of a transaction and ask WWYD? it's obviously what we all want.

ITA. With respect to the bolded (by me) part above - I have to pause and wonder who is more important to MDC...the advertisers or the members (who patronize the advertisers!). Just think what would happen if MDC lost its diapering moms - what would happen to the bulk of its advertising revenue??


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## vkberes (Jun 26, 2004)

I think pretty much whether we like it or not we have to accept that, in general, MDC is a heavily moderated board. There is a negative stigma about MDC at many other sites because of this and while I really believe in what MDC is about, I have previously stayed away because of the heavy moderation until I started CDing and became obsessed. :LOL When I started posting here I knew what I was getting into. I am a pretty mellow and nice person and even I have had a thread pulled.

In addition, I can see why MDC protects WAHMs (although I still don't agree with censorship). See all these banner ads and business references in siggies? They are what keeps MDC running and profitting. If WAHMs started to feel threatened they could pull their ads and MDC would lose money.

As it is, so be it.


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

I understand protecting WAHM's but I think it also just important to protect members, as I know people are getting kind of frustrated and are in search of a new CDing board and that means a loss for members, WAHM's arent going to advertise if there is no traffic.

I love MDC tons. I spend a lot of time here but I am also less than thrilled with the 1 million rules and censorship.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

ah good pont karla ... there should be a difference between CS issues and product quality issues. I would hope product quality would not be grouped into those posts not allowed on the main board... but I know it has been in the past. Thanks for brining that up


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## hnybee (Sep 21, 2003)

I think it's a good idea just to get those type of threads off the main diaper threads and into another chapter. It's hard when you've ordered from a wahm and you feel wronged but it doesn't belong on the main board. If you don't like the idea of it then don't use it. just my opinion.


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## lori810 (Feb 3, 2004)

I agree with Karla (lifetapestry). We need a better definition of "customer service" and what is and is not prohibited and how that would be affected by this change, if at all.

I, like some others, am of the mind that CS discussions should be permitted, good and bad. Comes with the territory. And yup - it can harm a reputation but maybe that's a good thing when a WAHM (or other merchant) is providing sub-standard service. And if respectful CS discussion were permitted, the WAHM could chime in and explain herself and others can make their own decisions.

Most of us are pretty darn forgiving, and I doubt if there would be too many reputation-ruining posts going on for spiteful reasons.


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## Danahen (Feb 1, 2004)

I say let things stay as is for now. Put up a sticky of _exact_ CS post rules. I know it's a fine line and most people can view a post many different ways. I think another diapering area will just add more work and frustration for the moderators.

If someone wants to know about a product, they can go to reviews. If someone is disappointed (or impressed), they can go to reviews. I think it's pretty simple, myself.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
ah good pont karla ... there should be a difference between CS issues and product quality issues. I would hope product quality would not be grouped into those posts not allowed on the main board... but I know it has been in the past. Thanks for brining that up









The opening sentence of Cynthia's post reads: "A very real part of diapering is the purchase of diapers, quality of product, shipping, communication between buyer and seller, and other customer service issues."

If this is the definition of customer service, then product quality is included under that umbrella.

Karla


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## KermitMissesJim (Feb 12, 2004)

I don't like the "select panel of experts" thing, because....wha?







Because I don't buy as much as other mamas, my input is not important in a CS issue?

That being said, I am SO FRUSTRATED right now by a CS issue and have NO ONE to whom I can speak about it because of the rules. THIS is the board *I* turn to for diapering advice. But with regards to CS, I can't get any, unless I turn to some rather old review that is not specific to my problem.

So maybe I'm not thinking clearly because of my current issue. It's nice that you asked us what we think, I guess.


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

I am confused as to how a secret society is going to solve customer service issues.I understand you are looking for a resolution to the cs issue posts but I don't think selecting only a few to be a part of a private board is going to help.If anything, I would feel offended that things are taking place that I am not allowed to be a part of.


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## Tiskin (Jul 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *steelmagnolia4*
Are you serious? :LOL

Oh this is just the most fantastic idea to come down the pike since snap in doublers









How 'bout y'all try less moderation and letting adults be adults.

Here, Here!


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## ShabbyChic (Feb 24, 2003)

I am just not getting it. I don't like the "secret society" idea, so aptly put by Jamie. I don't like that our voices are being silenced. I do love it here, but I am not pleased as of late.

I mean how about a thread with a title "My Fuzzi Bunz leak". Well now, why is that any different than "My soaker pants made by (Insert well-known WAHM here) itch my DC and are ugly to boot."? They are just variations of the same thread, but you can bet your sweet bippy that the Fuzzi Bunz thread will stay and the (insert well-known WAHM here) thread will go.

The CS issue is way to vague. It needs to be fully clarified.


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## pilesoflaundry (Dec 9, 2003)

I think it sounds like more work for you CM and the mods than a solution to a problem. I could be wrong but without seeing how it goes that is how it seems.

ITA with everyone that says we should be able to just talk about general issues, as long as names are not said how does it damage the wahm?? As long as you aren't saying I purchased a cover/diaper from xyz wahm and just describe the vague issue and not the diaper I haven't the foggiest idea how anyone figures out who you are talking about.

Also how are the "experts" chosen? What makes them an expert... I just don't see how this will work.


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## Marco Esquandolas (Feb 4, 2003)

I don't like the amount of policing done here as it is. I get very nervous about making posts b/c I never know what I can and can't say, and yes I have read the sticky notices. I think the diaper buying experience is an overall experience-start to finish-from initial contact until finished product is rec'd and used. I want to talk the good, the bad, and the ugly with other mamas who actually use the same stuff or share my tastes in design or fabrics or whatever. I think if the overall experience is awesome, we should be able to say so here as well as in the reviews section. I also think if we're having problems that we should be able to come here to vent, but in this case NOT name names. It felt good to know I wasn't alone on a certain thread that got locked. I thought we all were being respectful and were venting as needed and no names were named so what was the big deal?! Heck, b/c of that thread, I blew off some steam and went on a buying bender-a little retail therapy, if you will.









I say let us respectfully talk cs here. It IS part of the diaper buying experience.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
and as for the second part of your comment...i'm sorry but i do think a degree of negativity can be helpful. again, not comments like "that's ugly" but things like, "i'm sorry but i think adding brown lace to a wool soaker w/uneven legs is really bad taste" IS helpful!.


My apologies for being unclear. What I was referring to is negativity in this current discussion, such as (and this is a made up example) "What a sucky idea! Oh please get find something better to do with your time than moderate us" is just insensitive negativity offering no constructive criticism nor helpful insight. These issues are difficult enough and we are looking for a reasonable solution. Input is indeed welcome but let's approach it with reasonable and considerate suggestion, not just a critical brush off.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

There are several posts here that I intend to answer and will do so later (it's after midnight here so later will be tomorrow







).

But I see the focus for some here is on why we are "protecting the WAHMs". This is a a part of the concern but not in the light it is being cast. We are concerned about the community in general, WAHMs and non-WAHMs. Some of the issues that have been presented to us that have brought about this idea have been not issues of a member with a WAHM but issues between members. So please think beyond the notion that this is to protect WAHMs. It is farther reaching than that.

This would also be a place to bring a concern about a transaction between two members rather than it be posted on the board. What it comes down to is we have a community of members, some of whom are WAHMs and some of whom are not but they are all members. The ONLY place where it is appropriate to post about your personal dissatisfaction with a member or WAHM in this regard would be in a Review or Feedback thread for that individual according to the reviews.

For someone wanting to "get the word out" to warn others Reviews and Feedback would be the place, not Diapering. So the idea that we are trying to prevent that is only true to the extent that we do not want such to be posted as a discussion thread.

How is this suggested board different? It would be limited in participation. Information offered in the posts would be measured according to criteria we would set. Posts would be moderated so nothing is public until it has been approved. It would be open for public reading but not open to general participation. If you want to participate you can volunteer to be a panel member. It could be about a WAHM purchase. It could be about sale, trade, or swap between two members. It would be for the purpose of sincere advice seeking and sincere resolution suggestion.

Karla, consider my opening sentence poorly structured, Perhaps a comma in the wrong place. But this idea is not intended to be limited to customer service issues. I think even if we were to offer a "clearly defined list" it would still be deficient. So I'm not sure we can provide such a list or definitive guidelines that would be conclusive. You'll have to permit us the freedom to feel our way through things and make decisions as we go.

That may seem too arbitrary from some of you but the Diapering community is ever changing and presents different issues. We'd prefer to move with it and make decisions as we go. As this is just one of many issues of concern here I will say that defining customer service issues is on our list and if we reach some sort of guidelines of our own to use as a base we will most certainloy share it with you all. Until then we will have to take things as they arise and if we find a problem here or there we'll make it known with an explanation.

Product quality issues and concerns can be discussed on the Diapering board. This hasn't changed. The only thing that would make such a discussion inappropriate would be if the OP or those posting in response were to bring a customer service issue into the discussion.

More later. Thank you all for your input.


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## Max's Mami (May 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
I thought you were going to define what "customer service" issues actually are for us, but your post not only doesn't do that, but you seem to want to expand prohibited areas of posting beyond customer service into what you are calling "product quality".

I think that product quality, whether it is about the design of a diaper, how the fabric wears, or perceptions of its absorbency (and bunches of other things, like how pretty it is), is very different than customer service. Customer service (to me, and I have found no definition of customer service anywhere here) is about how the WAHM delivers the product, starting with communication around purchasing or custom ideas, to shipping a completed order, to interacting with her around problems with that order. The product that she delivers should be fair game for discussion on this board, and my concern is that you are trying to cut out even more reasonable discussion on this board.

If I understand your post correctly, then if I were to post a thread with a title something like "tell me about your experiences with ABC diapers" and someone replied that the diaper wasn't very absorbent, or that the soaker didn't quite fit in the diaper shell, or that the fabric faded quickly, etc etc, you would pull this thread and then this board would have to approve it and what not.

If that's truly what you have in mind, then I can't support such a move. If we can't talk about the quality of diapers, what we like and don't like in a diaper, then I can't imagine posting here. All that will be left is post after post about who's stocking and who got what at what stalking and posts of babes in diapers and while all of those posts are fine, if that's all there is then I think you'd lose most of the value of this place.

I would really like to see you clearly defined what "customer service" issues are and are not, and for those to be distinguished from discussions about a product. If discussions about product quality are going to be prohibited in your proposal, then I would not support it.

Karla

I agree -- I think cs issues are completely seperate from discussing diapers and how they work or why you do or dont like them.

I also think that its sad that we cant discuss CS here -- I agree that there should be rules and it should be factual and not immotional but its silly to me that I cant say "I had a great experience working with xyz wahm" I think others should be able to hear that and know that this is some one they might want to do business with.


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

maybe we can have the imput here of some WAHM's...as in, how do you feel about your CS being discussed here? would it make you work any harder/strive for better CS if you knew that it was fair game at MDC? you could always reply to that post w/an explaination. i know mamas here would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to many WAHM's. but i STILL think we need a place to be able to openly and honestly discuss our true feeling about ALL diapering issues, including CS and quality issues. does it matter to you WAHM's if we discuss it here, on the "reviews" board or some totally new board called "customer service"?

in the end, i'm afraid we (buying mamas) just aren't gonna get what we feel we need here. and that's sad because i subscribe to 'Mothering" mag because i feel it gives honest advice i can't get elsewhere and that's why i came here. *Mod's and CM i really think you need to listen to us mamas on this issue.* i have had a bad taste in my mouth about MDC ever since this issue came up and i find myself basically going to the TP and that's about it right now because if it. i feel you may end up losing a lot of us because if it and it may be enough of a reason to re-think some of your policies. change CAN be good! consider a poll. listen to us. or you may see us walk away...

lindsayloo2020, where is your board? PM me w/the addy please cause i'd love to hop over to honestly discuss issues and you say that's allowed there. i agree w/the mama who said this board is just going to become and endless stream of "who's stocking" posts. and from what i read in the sticky, POSITIVE reviews aren't allowed either so i guess it's not even fair to post "gee, look at how nice these ABC's fit" or "look at my DD in these great longies". it's all candy coated. ugh. i'd just subscribe to "parents" magazine if i wanted that. and follow every other mainstream, PC way of parenting out there. i thought i had found someplace different.


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
For someone wanting to "get the word out" to warn others Reviews and Feedback would be the place, not Diapering. So the idea that we are trying to prevent that is only true to the extent that we do not want such to be posted as a discussion thread.

How is this suggested board different? It would be limited in participation. Information offered in the posts would be measured according to criteria we would set. Posts would be moderated so nothing is public until it has been approved. It would be open for public reading but not open to general participation. If you want to participate you can volunteer to be a panel member. It could be about a WAHM purchase. It could be about sale, trade, or swap between two members. It would be for the purpose of sincere advice seeking and sincere resolution suggestion.

issue #1 - again, i still don't see why we can't "discuss" these issues. why oh why not? if the "diapering" board is to discuss "diapering" issues, you need to understand that for most of us (it seems to me) CS and quality issues ARE diapering issues...you just can't separate the two. again, with respect. i HAVE seen posts pulled that the OP started saying "please tell me what you think of this item" and people say "i think that is not top quality work". how is that out of line w/the rules? if it is, why? what is the point of all of this.

issue #2 - your clarification of the suggested board is appreciated but makes it sound even less desireable. it's totally controlled by MDC. there is no room for honest imput. MDC picks the board and MDC even reviews their posts before they allow them to be posted. so really, where's the honesty? and you already do this for reviews. we just feel there is no room for honesty and openess here. if everything has to be "approved" then it's not really honest and therefore, to people like me, holds no real value.


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## thyme (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lori810*
I, like some others, am of the mind that CS discussions should be permitted, good and bad. Comes with the territory. And yup - it can harm a reputation but maybe that's a good thing when a WAHM (or other merchant) is providing sub-standard service. And if respectful CS discussion were permitted, the WAHM could chime in and explain herself and others can make their own decisions.

Most of us are pretty darn forgiving, and I doubt if there would be too many reputation-ruining posts going on for spiteful reasons.

I totally agree. Please treat us like adults.


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## jmreinke (Jan 1, 2003)

If this other board is to mediate issues between two people, WAHM or no WAHM, then why does it need to be public? If people can't respond to it, if it is heavily moderated, that what really is the point of it being public? Just to air some dirty laundry.

I have no problem with some sort of mediation avenues, but I don't understand the efficacy of it being public. (No, I don't have anything to hide.)


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

I agree Janette.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

I, too, am wondering why we are not being treated like the adult mothers that we are and left alone to discuss all aspects of cloth diapering in this forum. CS, product quality, fit, design, etc. are all equally important in the wahm/non-wahm world of cloth. Yes, reputations can be harmed- but how often does someone ask for advice on CS to defile a WAHMs reputation?







There are lots of relatively new cding mamas (and lots of us "experienced" wahm-buying-cd'ers, too) who have nowhere else to turn for assistance. Why make it that much more difficult for us? Why take away even more of the positive stuff we get from MDC by more moderation? The reasons given in the OP don't seem reasonable, given what we're being denied, IMO.

And just because I might have more experience than some others shouldn't make my opinion more valuable in a private discussion forum- and it certainly doesn't make me any more "right" than anyone else. One of the great things about the diapering forum is getting a wide gamut of responses. There are so many different points of view out there; I think that limiting us to just a select few will be doing a huge disservice to everyone who might need the "mediation" forum's services.


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## HeatherTremblay (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
maybe we can have the imput here of some WAHM's...as in, how do you feel about your CS being discussed here? would it make you work any harder/strive for better CS if you knew that it was fair game at MDC? you could always reply to that post w/an explaination. i know mamas here would be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to many WAHM's. but i STILL think we need a place to be able to openly and honestly discuss our true feeling about ALL diapering issues, including CS and quality issues. does it matter to you WAHM's if we discuss it here, on the "reviews" board or some totally new board called "customer service"?

I've been watching this thread today, and thinking a lot about the different viewpoints.

It's true that MDC is a large board, and the diapering forum is a big one to moderate - especially considering that moderators are volunteering their time, and not receiving recompense for the time they spend trying to make the best decision they can, based on the TOS for the boards, about what to edit, or remove, or move to other forums, etc.

If you have visited other boards, you know how at times they can be dominated by personalities and viewpoints, and it is many times an unattainable utopian ideal that everyone will be completely honest, while remaining respectful (depending upon one's idea of the definition), and striving to be helpful and, of course, have fun! If it's not fun, then it's not worth the time, just my little opinion.

Part of me wants to say that adding another section to the diapering board will stretch the patience, time availability, and effectiveness of the current moderators as it is. I understand that this is one solution being offered up to keep to the terms of service, and I myself have volunteered if help is needed in any capacity here; my main concern on this front of course is, that there would be any elitist or badly skewed representation of MDC participants, but I hope and trust that a general consensus via poll or otherwise would be taken prior to implementing such a change.

If there were no moderation at all, the board here might degenerate into a perpetually snarky, troll-infested threadfest, which I have seen happen many a time on other AP and cloth diapering forums. It is difficult to find a balance.

I think that the review section is under-used, personally, and it is a place for people to place their review of product and/or experience with a diaper company, whether wahm or wahm-turned-production facility, and the TP of course, has it's own review section.

In addition, although moderated prior to allowing the post to go through, wahms are permitted to comment in the review section. This is the only place on the board that I am aware of, where wahms are actually permitted to comment.

In answer to some of the questions quoted above:

How do I feel about my CS being discussed here? From 3 years of being in this business, I have had two major complaints. One of these, the most recent, was completely on my shoulders. Having seen the (mostly) objective responses to a thread about a product gave me an opportunity to see things from a different perspective. Perhaps not pleasant emotionally for me, but then again, as a Wahm, I need to remember to keep my emotional reactions separate from what can really be used as a stepping stone for improvements. The only issue I might take with such a thread is the game of 'telephone' that ensues from such a post, where the subsequent posters believe they have all the details of a situation, and therefore assume, perhaps, the worst. Realistically, a large customer base can be very much influenced by such a thread.

Constructive criticism isn't always viewed as being kind at first, and may be presented in a less than kind manner, but anyone worth their salt will learn from a situation such as this.

I think the biggest issue with threads regarding particular makers' products among the wahm community, is that we are not permitted to respond to any posts along these lines. And it definitely can affect our reputations.

I may have 300 satisfied customers (and satisfied customers do not take the time to post a review, more often than not), but one publicized thread about a mistake or a communication in progress as yet unresolved, can make a huge difference in potential customer response during that time period, and for many weeks following.

I don't condone the 'hey, if you don't give me this free thing, I'll post such and such at a particular diapering board' type of situation, but thoughtful feedback, whether via email, PM or, if it must be, on public board, is always helpful in the long run.

I strive to provide the best customer service/product possible, regardless of who orders, where they frequent online, or how much or how little they order from me. Having said that, everyone needs an 'attitude check' at times, and like I said, a public post may be what some of us need at times. The unfortunate part, again, is how an isolated incident may be construed as 'the norm' when it comes to a transaction.

It makes no difference to me where it is discussed, to be quite honest with you, but it would make me feel a lot better if I knew that, wherever it is, I was permitted to respond.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Okay, here goes...







:Although I thoroughly believe in free speech and being treated like adults, and being allowed to discuss CS issues on the diapering boards...I think we are all kidding ourselves saying that we are always respectful and that our discussions don't sometimes turn nasty and ugly. They do...and someone, a WAHM or not, can be seriously brought down with some super harsh not so "respectful" conversations. Should we be allowed to do that...I guess so, but we don't always "act like adults" around here, me included.







: I personally like some of the "moderation" here...like keeping language in check.







Back on topic...I think that it isn't right to not be allowed to discuss negative CS issues, and regardless of what was said earlier, I feel that WAHMs do get alot of protection from negative feedback. I think it gets ugly when mamas start adding in their emotions...me included, again...and don't stick to just the facts. Ie..."this happened to me, what should I do?"...I find the response is often something like..."well, that just ridiculous", instead of offering sound advice without emotional input.
Okay, I'm rambling...off to climb into my flame resistant bubble.


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## danaalex (Mar 19, 2003)

i have, for the most part, stopped reading and posting on the diapering board here at MDC. however i will put my feelings on this out there. yes, you are all adult mothers. sometimes that is very hard to see though. over the past several months i have seen expectations go through the roof of those providing you with products. as a consumer you have every right to want 100% satisfaction, however, i feel that often the complaints and "what should I do" threads are more for the poster to get enough people in agreeance with them. i am curious if these same people would post about the sweater they bought at the gap or hanna andersson? would they come and ask 200 other posters if they should contact the company or sell or complain? more than likely, no. they would contact the company. i personally, think that every person who has an issue needs to go directly to the person they are having the issue with FIRST!!!!!!! try to resolve it between the only two people that matter. no one else can really help you. don't ask for everyone else's opinion first. if there is something YOU are NOT happy with then YOU are not happy, take care of it.

after that, if there are still issues, then by all means head on over to the diapering review section and leave an HONEST review, don't sugar coat it, but don't be nasty either. just be honest. other people will see that, then you don't need to be PMing people all over the place and possibly hurting someones rep in the process. i think that if everyone here behaved like a grown up then you wouldn't need a separate forum for, " is this an issue or not". everyone would just be able to take care of their transaction issues on their own. and yes, some of those threads did get nasty and they have been getting more and more nasty over time. this is the MAIN reason i stopped reading and posting here.

i don't think anyone is trying to protect wahms, but i do think that some of the consumers and posters here have gotten a little out of hand with their expectations and the way they handle those expectations. a little communication can go a long way, and hopefully keep a transaction as a positive experience. that's all i have to say.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:

am curious if these same people would post about the sweater they bought at the gap or hanna andersson? would they come and ask 200 other posters if they should contact the company or sell or complain?
maybe if this were a gap or hanna board.









and if you have contacted the wahm first and get no response, then what..where do you go, not to your mama or your IRL friends you would come here and ask, makes sense to me.


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## Duck Duck Goose (Mar 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *danaalex*
i am curious if these same people would post about the sweater they bought at the gap or hanna andersson?

As a relative newbie to the cd world, I just wanted to coment on this... I think the nature of CD'ing makes the diapering "different". I can walk into the Gap and see what their products look like. If I placed an online order, I would know what to expect both product quality and cs.

When I placed my order for dd's first cd's, I kind of held my breath. I could see pictures of what I was ordering, but to touch and feel the dipe and see how it fits dc is a totally different story. There is no one IRL I can talk to/ask question to about cd's.

If this board wasn't here, I can be 99% sure dd would still be in sposies right now. And as someone who lurks (daily) and posts infrequently, I glean huge amounts of information from the collective diapering experience- including the buying. All of the comments are helpful- the good, the bad, and the ugly. I know that what works for one person may not work for another. I know that one person's buying experience might be different than another's. Buying from a WAHM is different that buying from the Gap or Hanna Anderson. I know I wasn't sure of what to expect. I rather read everything I can- reviews and cs threads- and then make an educated decision about where I spend my money.

BTW, I wonder how much the daipering board is contributing to the GDP?


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## Ok (Feb 6, 2004)

The line between information and gossip is difficult to detect, as is the line between slander and venting.

We don't police ourselves with polite behavior 100% of the time. I don't feel like I'm censored here, although truthfully I'm the type who is unlikely to say things that might get me in too much trouble anyway. I come here to learn and have fun. (enough stress in the rest of my life)

What I discussed with Holli in my living room is very different from what I would say into a microphone in an auditorium. Sometimes theres only a couple of us here, but b/c its a written record, its really the auditorium analogy. The couple of product & CS issues I've had were dealt with between me and the seller. I haven't written reviews yet because I don't know how to do it. Its not the rules that hold me back. Its my own sense of finding the right balance of words. And how I might've discussed the issue with the seller is not how I would editorialize in front of the auditorium. The message needs to be crafted for different audiences.

And then theres the ever-present "but the seller won't respond to my emails." I think thats when some level of public knowledge does become critical-- b/c maybe someone either knows that (1) seller is ill, please be patient or (2) seller is under FBI investigation for mail fraud or (3) whatever else. I think this is the void where the compromise idea comes into being. Before I joined MDC I did have a very frustrating experience w/ a wahm retailer who wasn't communicating and it took about 6wks to get my things (which were theoretically in stock on the night I ordered/paid her). If I cd've tapped into the collective wisdom here-- that would've been wonderful emotionally. But I don't think it would've done a darn thing as to whether I got my products, etc.

My grandmother used to pride herself on her honesty-- but from my vantage point she was just using that as an excuse to be ugly. It is possible to be judiciously honest, and I think thats what is really being sought here. I'm not involved in PM circles or private boards and I dont know all the gossip. But even I (at this point) can often do a little history-searching and figure out who is the rant-du-jour. Anyway "honesty" is that double-edge sword that venting/slander cuts hairs with.

So while I agree that we can haggle over all the problems any compromise may not solve, and CS or Product definitions... I'm not sure that the intellectual debate is what really drives the need for seeking out a compromise re: what is discussed on boards. I think its the emotions that are problematic and occasionally can obscure the whole point of reviews: to inform with the facts (instead of persuading with diatribes).


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## ChristinaB (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momsmyjob*
maybe if this were a gap or hanna board.









um is this the <insert one particular WAHM company name> board? no it is not. that is the point.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *danaalex*
i have, for the most part, stopped reading and posting on the diapering board here at MDC. however i will put my feelings on this out there. yes, you are all adult mothers. sometimes that is very hard to see though. over the past several months i have seen expectations go through the roof of those providing you with products. as a consumer you have every right to want 100% satisfaction, however, i feel that often the complaints and "what should I do" threads are more for the poster to get enough people in agreeance with them. i am curious if these same people would post about the sweater they bought at the gap or hanna andersson? would they come and ask 200 other posters if they should contact the company or sell or complain? more than likely, no. they would contact the company. i personally, think that every person who has an issue needs to go directly to the person they are having the issue with FIRST!!!!!!! try to resolve it between the only two people that matter. no one else can really help you. don't ask for everyone else's opinion first. if there is something YOU are NOT happy with then YOU are not happy, take care of it.

after that, if there are still issues, then by all means head on over to the diapering review section and leave an HONEST review, don't sugar coat it, but don't be nasty either. just be honest. other people will see that, then you don't need to be PMing people all over the place and possibly hurting someones rep in the process. i think that if everyone here behaved like a grown up then you wouldn't need a separate forum for, " is this an issue or not". everyone would just be able to take care of their transaction issues on their own. and yes, some of those threads did get nasty and they have been getting more and more nasty over time. this is the MAIN reason i stopped reading and posting here.

i don't think anyone is trying to protect wahms, but i do think that some of the consumers and posters here have gotten a little out of hand with their expectations and the way they handle those expectations. a little communication can go a long way, and hopefully keep a transaction as a positive experience. that's all i have to say.









VERY well said!

There obviously needs to be some line drawn, some way to meet in the middle and as much as some of you think MDC is going to do things _their_ way no matter what we think, I think you are wrong. CM clearly put this thread here so we could discuss it (correct me if I am wrong CYNTHIA). Danaalex said everything I have been noticing lately so no need to repeat her again.


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## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmunch*
I am just not getting it. I don't like the "secret society" idea, so aptly put by Jamie. I don't like that our voices are being silenced. I do love it here, but I am not pleased as of late.

I mean how about a thread with a title "My Fuzzi Bunz leak". Well now, why is that any different than "My soaker pants made by (Insert well-known WAHM here) itch my DC and are ugly to boot."? They are just variations of the same thread, but you can bet your sweet bippy that the Fuzzi Bunz thread will stay and the (insert well-known WAHM here) thread will go.

The CS issue is way to vague. It needs to be fully clarified.


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## Francy (Feb 26, 2003)

i'll try to organize my thoughts.

1. *sigh*

2. i can't figure out what is wrong with asking "are these first quality?" how is that a cs issue?

3. seems that many TRY to post anonymously, and then someone follows-up with too much info, and changes the discussion in a way that the poor maligned op didn't intend.

4. it is frustrating that wahms can't respond. that is the only good reason i can see for prohibiting such discussions.

5. i have very high expectations for my lands' end purchases. if a button is wonky, i send it back. lands' end is guaranteed 100%. this is not the case with wahms. i like to ask other mamas if i'm unreasonable in wanting straight snaps on my diapers. if i'm being too fussy, then i won't bother the wahm. i feel bad going right to the wahm and saying the snaps are wonky. i feel bad! i don't want to hurt her feelings. i don't have this concern with lands' end, so i don't need anyone else's opinion on the quality of an item.

6. a year ago i had an issue with a wahm. i just pm'd the fabulous, much missed heather sanders, and she walked me through the ordeal. i didn't post about it at all. i recommend this to others.

7. instead of locking and censoring (very disturbing), heather would often chime in and say something along the lines of "watch it mamas, you're treading on thin ice." that was really helpful, and straightened us out without the heavy padlock.

8. yeah, we are getting too picky. i know i am relaxing my standards somewhat. but money is tight! i recently got a product that was totally not what i expected. i spent a lot. my heart just sank when it arrived. i'd like to warn others. but i get nervous about hurting the wahm's feelings. probably silly. she's a buissnesswoman, after all.

9. use you pm power! if wendy wahm sent you a crummy diaper, you can just post and simply ask "who here uses wendy wahm dipes?" then you can pm the uses with your concerns.

10. thread removal and locking is creepy.


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## detergentdiva (Oct 16, 2002)

I think the idea may be a good middle ground for several reasons:
But First, I don't think members should be secret. This just will not work. I personally would not use a "secret" panel to discuss any issues.

I think that what it would be helpful with in a wahms point of view are the threads where someone posts about a wahms cs but only shares her version of the story. These threads are very hurtful towards a wahm. I am talking about threads where the wahm knows she is being talked about, several people say pm me the name, then the wahm is saying on another board "hey that is not true, I did this and this and this and she is not mentioning that." Having an ability to have the customer go to the panel and say x then the wahm can defend herself and say x but it will not be heated or nasty as some wahm/customer public issues can get because of the middleman. Often times I think many issues could be resolved this way simply because of a mis-communication between the original parties.
Next, the many many threads of "I bought x and it leaked, tab fell off, had a hole, etc etc" IMO the first comment should be contact the wahm. Many times we do not know of a problem until it is too late to correct it. We find out after several items are out in the general public only through these threads. For instance, I will use myself. The way we used to do our aplix, for some people after a very short time of use the aplix would unravel. I did not know this because no one came to me and told me. I actually first read about it on this board. By this time there were literally hundreds of these diapers on the market. As soon as we found out about the problem we fixed it. If I had known sooner I would have fixed it sooner. When someone posts about a diaper issue, it is my opinion that one of he first responses should be contact the wahm. Yes everyone else should be able to respond, but the buyer should be told to contact the wahm.
Another reason it would work: the NE threads. If this problem was brought to a "panel" the reasoning behind the delays could have been placed in one easy to find spot. This would have eliminated all the threads asking about her because people would know what was going on. This would have eliminated the tension between those who were waiting on packages and not knowing what was going on and those who were flabbergasted that someone would be worried about soap during a hurricane.

Someone mentioned Heather and the things Heather did when she was mod. Wasn't she awesome. Although we all knew what her favorites were she was always neutral. Something I think we are missing today. When someone would post "what do you think of x diaper?" She would respond with her opinion and remind everyone that every diaper fits every baby differently. What works/ doesn't work for my child may or may not work for your child. This doesn't happen very much anymore.

Although I don't think that many of the threads that are started are meant to be catty but so many turn that way. I think that a panel of sorts could help to keep this from happening.
I also think that maybe a liaison between the mods, wahms, and you the customers can be helpful. As many have said, we are not like gap, we are a different type of community. Many people want the services that big stores offer but from the little stores. There is nothing wrong with this but sometimes we the wahms could use a little help in explaining our issues. With the small businesses we are dealing with a sick child can throw us behind by weeks. But the overuse of a sick child can ruin it for many wahms, not just the one over using the excuse. A panel could help to find out what is happening.

I don't know what the entire expectation of this is from the viewpoint of MDC admin. I do however think that if it is used correctly and without inhibiting the voice of both you the customer and us the wahms, it can actually prove to be a valuable tool for everyone. It must not be secret though.

Just my $.02, excuse my jumbled thoughts though, I'm sick


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *danaalex*
as a consumer you have every right to want 100% satisfaction, however, i feel that often the complaints and "what should I do" threads are more for the poster to get enough people in agreeance with them. i am curious if these same people would post about the sweater they bought at the gap or hanna andersson? would they come and ask 200 other posters if they should contact the company or sell or complain? more than likely, no. they would contact the company. i personally, think that every person who has an issue needs to go directly to the person they are having the issue with FIRST!!!!!!! try to resolve it between the only two people that matter. no one else can really help you. don't ask for everyone else's opinion first. if there is something YOU are NOT happy with then YOU are not happy, take care of it.

while i agree w/you in one sense here (that we mamas need to discuss this w/the WAHM first) i see problems with this. i am totally the type of person who would do this - contact ABC dipes and say...i am not satisfied, i expect a resolution. but not everyone is like you and me. especially women. we aren't always commended for being assertive. sad but true that many of us are unsure of ourselves and our decisions. so, for some who have a gut feeling something is wrong but not the courage to bring it up to a WAHM without some support from friends this board can be invaluable. if i had a problem w/a gap sweater i would FOR SURE mention to the Gap but guess what...i'd also discuss it w/my DH, mom and some friends. hey mom, do you think this sweater is poorly made? DH, look at this! and dear gap...i am unhappy with your sweater. if mom said, oh honey, it's not so bad and DH said, just let it go...well, i might just do that. or i might not but i should feel free to do that. IRL i just CAN'T do that w/CD's. i have no one else to ask. maybe you don't need anyone else's opinions to make up your mind but many people do. and even then, many people just like to vent..."i am so sad that i spent $20 on this dipe and it doesn't work". i think the MDC boards can, and should, act as a place of discussion, just as my telephone does w/my IRL friends and family. there, i discuss the gap. here, i discuss ABC diapers. if no one i knew shopped the gap, i'd find a Gap board and post there. no kidding. we are social beings and the internet is a new way of socializing. i do it here (or would like to) just as i do IRL. i can handle being respectful and watching my language more so than i do IRL and i don't mind that. it's just having to worry that what i want to say is something i'm not "allowed" to say that is bugging me and turns me off to this board.

in all honesty, some of the most intelligent things i have ever read written OL have been here at MDC. very smart women who i WANT to communicate with. i have visited other boards and i just don't feel many of them have much to offer someone like me who likes to think outside the norm. i like hearing others opinions too and if i didn't WHY the heck would i bother coming to a board anyway? so when i, or others around me, are not allowed to openly say things (with respect) i feel it's all very fake and the "magic" of this place is lost.

i'm also curious what danaalex or those who agree with her feel a mama should do if they HAVE contacted the WAHM about a problem and have been told "sorry but there's nothing i can do for you"? it seems we all agree the review section here isn't really a satisfactory substitute for those discussions since we are only posting an experience and not really working out frustrating feelings about that experience. what if i wrote the gap and said my sweater sucks and they said "well sorry but we can't help you". do you think i wouldn't discuss it with my friends? maybe i'm just a geek but i feel the mamas here are my freinds, at least in the CD world. and i want to talk w/them and get a whole host of ideas from them. not just a chosen few.

all this and i have NEVER HAD A BAD WAHM EXPERIENCE! i would hope this would be the place for me to get info to try and avoid that and if i ever did have a bad experience, talk about it with people who understand. i don't feel this is an unreasonable request.


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## ChristinaB (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
i'm also curious what danaalex or those who agree with her feel a mama should do if they HAVE contacted the WAHM about a problem and have been told "sorry but there's nothing i can do for you"? it seems we all agree the review section here isn't really a satisfactory substitute for those discussions since we are only posting an experience and not really working out frustrating feelings about that experience. what if i wrote the gap and said my sweater sucks and they said "well sorry but we can't help you". do you think i wouldn't discuss it with my friends? maybe i'm just a geek but i feel the mamas here are my freinds, at least in the CD world. and i want to talk w/them and get a whole host of ideas from them. not just a chosen few.

I TOTALLY see your point. I personally have never, ever come across a WAHM that does not want to make a bad situation right. It's not often I see the opposite happen (a WAHM saying "there is nothing I can do for you") but when I do, I wonder if it's the customer being very picky and there really is nothing wrong with the .... <whatever it is in question>... and then the whole "telephone" style conversations carry out here on the board. Some people do not translate the OP the way it is meant, the readers do not know the true conversations between buyer and seller, etc... I have seen wonderful WAHM's get a bad rep due to things like this. Now I'm not saying this is what happens all the time, I have seen siuations where I do agree that the WAHM should make the situation right.. but it's those other times that are just plain sad all around. kwim? sorry it's late.


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## Danahen (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:

i'm also curious what danaalex or those who agree with her feel a mama should do if they HAVE contacted the WAHM about a problem and have been told "sorry but there's nothing i can do for you"?
Review the wahm and never buy from her again. If she feels there's nothing she can do for you, why discuss it? Nothing can be done at that point. I have BTDT as a customer. It's frustrating, yet there's nothing that can be fixed at that point. Review the transaction and discontinue purchasing from her.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Lot's of interesting views, concerns, and suggestions. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.









Several other issues about board participation and moderation have been mentioned so I'll also present these changes we are planning to implement.

1. Customer Service issues

No customer service threads. This has been our policy but a policy that has been misunderstood or ignored. I realize some of you are asking for clarification as to what would be considered CS. If we can provide guidelines for that we will do so. But simply put we do not want to host issues that are clear customer service problems. If you feel the need to make your issue public beyond what we permit then I ask that it be taken elsewhere.

In Reviews we require that a person attempt resolution with the WAHM before posting a review. If attempts at contact have been made and there has been no response or the WAHM has not been willing to reolve the problem it would be appropriate to post to the Reviews board. Any future resolution could be posted as an edit or update. And of course a WAHM has the right to post a rebuttal.

There are a few other lines of posting of concern when the member has tried to communicate with the WAHM and gets no response so posts to the board. For example the recent Northern Essence concerns. And other threads asking where Sumatra of Wishy Wishy Soakers is or other such "Has WAHMDiaperMama.com closed?" threads.

I think these threads are okay. It's normal to expect a community so plugged in to the WAHM diapering world to ask its members about such things hoping they have a quick answer and can calm concerns.

However, I think it should be clearly that and nothing more.

"Does anyone know if there's a problem at PooPockets.com? I placed an order over two weeks ago and now can't reach ChrissyPoo to find out what the status of my order is."

So just an info request about the person or website would be fine but no posts about customer service or product problems that the WAHM has been refusing to respond to. Responses should be informative and not speculative or conveying a negative experience. (that would be appropriate only in a review). If responses turn critical we will remove posts, close, or remove the thread, depending on the specifics.

2. WAHMs as members

We will be opening up WAHM participation on the boards beyond what we have been allowing. WAHMs will be permitted to respond to threads to voice their opinions about what they like, even if it be their own products. They can respond to a general question about their products but without being promotional in their posts. Members should expect a WAHM's input about her product if they post to complain about it. However, a WAHM that participates ONLY to defend or support her product or business interests and not as a member of the community will be regarded as promotional and not as sincere community-based participation.

3. "PM me the WAHM's name" posts.
What's this? Is it an underground blackmarking of a WAHM? I don't think we want to allow this. The person can leave feedback in the Reviews for EVERYONE to read. If she can't do that or doesn't want to for some reason then I don't see allowing the use of a thread on the boards to do so. We need to insist that people use the Reviews board if they have something negative or positive to say. And along that line...

4. Reviews threads in Diapering
I realize some feel these threads add to the value of the Diapering board but threads that are started just to rave a site or product really belongs in Reviews. But I think we can balance it. We want to require that threads posted like that must first be placed as a review. Thereafter it can be posted by the member to Diapering. But I would think it would be more appropriate to have all such posts that are pure raves, brags of new purchases or other sharing of great stuff purchased or seen go in a thread for that purpose (A daily Fluffy Mail or other such thread) and not started as a separate thread.

Just some clarification here. A thread started to ask opinions about a diaper, cover, soaker, "what's your favorite...?" would be fine as would all posts of response. These are not regarded as reviews. But a thread started as a horn toot for a product is a review. And we want that placed in Reviews.

5. Thread Pulling and Closures.
I've asked the moderators to take a more publically clarifying approach to dealing with issues where possible. Of course it is ideal for a moderator to post a gentle note to redirect and point out where she thinks a discussion is inappropriately heading and a reminder of the guidelines. But more often than not a discussion gets deep into an issue way before a moderator sees it and by then we're looking at a more complicated situation.

If it is a single post or limited issue within a thread that can't remain we will remove violating posts and contact the offenders, allowing the discussion to continue. If most of or the entire thread is a violation that cannot be hosted it will be removed.

For most cases I think the best approach would be to post to the thread to explain what was inappropriate so the community can be aware (such as "this thread is discussing a customer service issue in relating this that and the other. Please resolve your cs issues privately and use the Reviews board to give your feedback").

6. Reviews - This is a question for all of you since we have had some criticism directed at us for permitting positive customer service posts but denying negative ones.

Do you feel ALL customer service posts, which would include all raves about a WAHM and her business, should be permitted only in Reviews?


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

I think what would be awesome is if the Review board contained way more reviews, and current reviews at that. Lots of times when I go there to look up a business, there are very few reviews, and they are pretty old. That's why i just don't go there and instead search the diapering forum for more up-to-date discussions of products.
I guess if people started regularly posting to the Review boards, I'd be visiting it as much as the general discussion board, because reviews, especially well-thought-out ones, are immensely interesting to me.


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## danaalex (Mar 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
i'm also curious what danaalex or those who agree with her feel a mama should do if they HAVE contacted the WAHM about a problem and have been told "sorry but there's nothing i can do for you"? it seems we all agree the review section here isn't really a satisfactory substitute for those discussions since we are only posting an experience and not really working out frustrating feelings about that experience. what if i wrote the gap and said my sweater sucks and they said "well sorry but we can't help you". do you think i wouldn't discuss it with my friends? maybe i'm just a geek but i feel the mamas here are my freinds, at least in the CD world. and i want to talk w/them and get a whole host of ideas from them. not just a chosen few.



REVIEW THE WAHM IN QUESTION!!!!!!!!! if she is not meeting your expectations then review her. but be HONEST, not just angry. give facts and details of your dealings with her. coming here doesn't really get you anything in a situation like that, other than having other people get angry with you. if a wahms policy is no returns, no refunds, no blah blah blah, exchanges only then that is the policy. i don't think that having a ton of other people tell you you were wronged really makes the wahm in question change her mind, but maybe it does because now she is feeling bullied into making an exception. i don't know.

i guess i just act differently then others here. i have had issues with stuff that i have received from wahms and big biz and i have gone straight to the source and discussed my issues. i told them my problem with the product and asked if there was anything they could do to help me. in 100% of the cases, they were helpful. i NEVER went public, asked for advice on a public board. i knew i wasn't happy and i knew i wanted to fix that.

to the people who said if this was a gap or hanna board you'd discuss product quality and customer service here................
really you would? you couldn't just KNOW that you are not happy with the item (s) and make up your mind to contact them first?

i was a member of a playgroup and we all used cloth diapers. not one time did any of us ever ask the others about a customer service issue, or a diaper quality issue. i'm sticking to the fact that i think if YOU feel there is something wrong, then you don't need 200 other people telling you there is something wrong. just take care of it yourself.

oh well, i'm done.


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## gemanda (Mar 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
Do you feel ALL customer service posts, which would include all raves about a WAHM and her business, should be permitted only in Reviews?

Personally, very firmly yes. But I'm looking at this from the WAHM point-of-view, of course.

I have had several instances recently where CD mamas have tried to extort products or services out of me by saying, "If you don't do XYZ, I'll post everywhere I can about how horrible you are." XYZ isn't a case of bad CS, it isn't a case of an error in an order, it isn't a case of product malfunctions, it's simply extortion. And these are becoming more and more frequent in my business...things like "You must waive this policy for me" or "I expect this free" or the like are happening once a week now instead of just every once in awhile.

This is why I'm so firmly against any "CS issues" in the main threads. The mods do a great job of keeping on top of things, but they can only move so quickly. If a negative post like is threatened above is posted during the peak hours, it may be seen hundreds of times before it's shut down. That can be extraordinarily damaging to a business. At least with the Review board, the post is moderated to ensure that it's factual, and the WAHM is able to factually rebutt anything negative. And if you keep the negative out, you have to keep the positive out as well to avoid seeming biased.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Duck Duck Goose*
As a relative newbie to the cd world, I just wanted to coment on this... I think the nature of CD'ing makes the diapering "different". I can walk into the Gap and see what their products look like. If I placed an online order, I would know what to expect both product quality and cs.

When I placed my order for dd's first cd's, I kind of held my breath. I could see pictures of what I was ordering, but to touch and feel the dipe and see how it fits dc is a totally different story. There is no one IRL I can talk to/ask question to about cd's.

If this board wasn't here, I can be 99% sure dd would still be in sposies right now. And as someone who lurks (daily) and posts infrequently, I glean huge amounts of information from the collective diapering experience- including the buying. All of the comments are helpful- the good, the bad, and the ugly. I know that what works for one person may not work for another. I know that one person's buying experience might be different than another's. Buying from a WAHM is different that buying from the Gap or Hanna Anderson. I know I wasn't sure of what to expect. I rather read everything I can- reviews and cs threads- and then make an educated decision about where I spend my money.

BTW, I wonder how much the daipering board is contributing to the GDP?










I totally agree!


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:

Do you feel ALL customer service posts, which would include all raves about a WAHM and her business, should be permitted only in Reviews?

so if I get a new dipe in the mail or there is a new wahm and I try her dipe out and find out it's totally yummy, fits great, it's soft, and absorbant. etc. then I couldn't come and share in the diapering forum with other cding mamas? For ex. I got a bizzybumz (just a made up name) in the mail and it's awesome..and describe it..that wouldnt' be allowed?


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

That would be fine as I explained above. Post it as a review and THEN you can post it to the fluff thread of the day to share with those who don't check Reviews on a regular basis. That enriches the Reviews board and allows you to share here in Diapering.









But if we make a firm decision that all Customer Service posting, positive and negative, goes only to Reviews then you would just post about the product and any mention of the WAHMs service would be for the review post only.


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## detergentdiva (Oct 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momsmyjob*
so if I get a new dipe in the mail or there is a new wahm and I try her dipe out and find out it's totally yummy, fits great, it's soft, and absorbant. etc. then I couldn't come and share in the diapering forum with other cding mamas? For ex. I got a bizzybumz (just a made up name) in the mail and it's awesome..and describe it..that wouldnt' be allowed?


I personally don't agree with the fact that a comment like that is not allowed. We ARE a cloth diapering community. Part of hat community is discussing what we like and what we don't like, even if it hurts someones feelings.

What I see as bad are the catty posts. There was a thread a while back, a rave on a new diaper. She stocked and everyone ran because of 1 or 2 raves. They got the diaper and began to complain, not mentioning her name. One of the complainees then went back and pulled up the rave post making a post along the lines of" since we are discussing this I thought I would bump this post".
What was not posted was that this wahm was doing everything she ould to make things right. She was not leaving everyone hanging.
Yet simply due to the nature of the posts her business suffered greatly.

Another example, the BJmartplace threads. OMG there were people slamming her because they were made in China and they just didn't believe her because the prices were so low. She was slammed by members and mods. Don't the Chinese have a right to make diapers, yes prices are low but so is cost of living. The price it costs me to make a diaper vs. someone in a southern state is at least 2-3 times more.

Someone mentioned that some people are too shy to go to the wahm. That is why it is so important for you to say to her, go tell your wahm, she wants to know.
Several cs threads have been started with only half truths. These have been some of the meanest I have seen and the wahm is sitting in the back corner saying look I have proof I did that or this.

Finally return policies. They are there for a reason. Be sure you read before you buy. I don't like every policy I have ever read but it is theri policy. Everyone loves the personal touch of a wahm but want the benefits of the company. Well, I receive a shirt gift from target. No gift receipt. I go to target because the shirt is too small, it is a target brand shirt. I don't have a receipt they tell me oh well there is nothing we will do about it. Do I extort them, no I live with it. it IS their policy, it is well written where everyone can see.
The extortion has got to stop. I have talked with wahms who receive emails like: so what are you going to give me for free, it was a day late what are you going to give me for it. Or I had and used the diaper for 2 months, now I don't like it I want a refund. The ones we really love to get are the : either do this or I will slam you to everyone. Then we come to MDC only to see the slamming has begun.

I know not everyone here is like that. But there are a handful of them that are and they easily suck those who are not into their deception.
Having a go between or a panel of sorts will help to sort out the truth in these cases.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:

The extortion has got to stop. I have talked with wahms who receive emails like: so what are you going to give me for free, it was a day late what are you going to give me for it. Or I had and used the diaper for 2 months, now I don't like it I want a refund. The ones we really love to get are the : either do this or I will slam you to everyone. Then we come to MDC only to see the slamming has begun.
I see your point and think those cases are rare. I don't know. No matter what is decided here though things like that will contine on yahoo groups and diaper pin.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:

That would be fine as I explained above. Post it as a review and THEN you can post it to the fluff thread of the day to share with those who don't check Reviews on a regular basis. That enriches the Reviews board and allows you to share here in Diapering.
Yes that would enrich the review board.. but would also slant it to the positive side even more than it already is. The poster hasnt used the diaper yet... so she doesnt know how it works, how it holds up, etc... those are things that are reviews. I dont know that I agree that "oh i got this diaper and its so yummy.. cant wait to try it on" should be considered a review?

The review board is already slanted positively... people dont feel comfortable posting negative reviews ( I know of quite a few friends with bad transactions that the customers will not post a review of for various reasons) ..... I think that adding those "fluffy" type of review posts would only make that worse.

ETA : I was originally all for the idea of a compromise... but the more it gets explained it seems overly restrictive and way too complicated


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

well that's why I was saying it's absorbant..I would have had to have tried it. I know if some of the mamas here hadn't posted about a certain fitted dipe and how great it is I would never tried it and found out for myself. The end result... bringing more business to the WAHM, right?

You have to take the good with the bad IMO. No one would ever try her products if someone didn't say how great they were. Maybe I'm wrong.


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## detergentdiva (Oct 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momsmyjob*
I see your point and think those cases are rare.

Unfortunately these cases are not rare anymore, they happen more and more frequently.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

sorry for confusion.. i was replying more to that fact that cynthia said that would be fine... but you had to post a review THEN to the fluff report for the day. If you were posting to the fluff report for the day because you just got it that day it wouldnt seem like you had used it enough for a good review.... kwim ? Thats where I was confused









But while thinking about that... arent those type of reviews about the product not the customer service? Is MDC now thinking about product and customer service reviews not being allowed on the main board


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *detergentdiva*
Unfortunately these cases are not rare anymore, they happen more and more frequently.


well shame on the mama's that do that. That is wrong for you to be asked to for such and such because your order was a day late.

I'm really trying to be objective here. I know that I would have never given a certain pocket diaper *ahem* another try If a mama hadn't suggested I try it in a solid pul instead of a print.







Which was a discussion here..so maybe it's not all bad being able to discuss the likes and dislikes of diapers because now I love them









I guess what I'm trying to get everyone to see the advantages, not just the disadvantages. There has to be an alternative, rather than ban the whole shebang.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Sorry if my response was confusing. The "Ooooh look what I got in the mail today" posts would go to the fluffy mail thread. It's the tried and satisfied posts about a product posts that we're asking be placed in Reviews before being put on the board.

mama2kyla I can see what you're saying but would it be an unfair slant? Reviews are up to the customers to post. If they choose not to post a negative review there's nothing we can really do to make them post it unless they post it as a thread in Diapering and we give them the same - to say please post it to Reviews first.


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## momsmyjob (Oct 7, 2003)

making sure I understand..a post like ohh look what I got today..would have to go under a post like.. Saturdays Fluff?? or Today's fluffymail?

Now I'm very confused..it seems very restrictive. Does this apply to things like..Who has such and such in stock, if I were looking for something in particular or such and such a site has new advocacy shirts stocked, did you notice?


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## gemanda (Mar 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *detergentdiva*
Unfortunately these cases are not rare anymore, they happen more and more frequently.

Exactly. I'm not sure what it is, but they are starting to come out of the woodwork all the time now.


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## Danahen (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:

Do you feel ALL customer service posts, which would include all raves about a WAHM and her business, should be permitted only in Reviews?
I feel that's fair. If you can't post the negative on the main board, then you can't post the positive on the main board. I think that's an issue here, the negative vs. the postive "review" posts. I agree, why be allowed to post positive, yet not negative? So, I say keep it all in the reviews. I also agree that the "I got the fluffiest diaper today!" post could be put in a "Today's Fluff" thread. I mean, it IS exciting to receive your new diaper even though you haven't used it yet.

I am happy to see the change here. I know nothing is ironed out yet, and everything is seemingly a mess- yet, I see an effort on MDC's part as far as keeping a peaceful community. I see the customer's POV, and of course the WAHM's. I think each view needs to be respected. I am all for utilizing the review section to its fullest.


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

You know what? I am now very upset. I have heard from multiple people in this post who now have been suspended fro the TP or other parts of the board because of posts made here and the Admin clearly stated so. I used to love MDC but since Ive seen the attitude shown lately, I am very upset. Im sure Ill be suspended for this post to, so I love you all if Im gone, please contact me at [email protected], BUT, If some of you are looking for a board with less restrictions, please PM me or better yet even email me if I become suspended!


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I have heard from multiple people in this post who now have been suspended fro the TP or other parts of the board because of posts made here and the Admin clearly stated so.
Wow- just for sharing their thoughts? That's really sad.









And wanted to add, I think it's disgusting that there are women out there who would extort a Wahm. That's just sick- most Wahms that I've known over the years have been really great people- I can't imagine how that makes them feel.


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## michray (Aug 11, 2003)

MDC is still a business.. which I think we forget. I love that they help to support WAHMs in such a positive way, but I also hate that the diapering boards (including the review boards) are so restrictive.
I have always thought it odd that I could come on here a hundred times and rave about a beautiful diaper or a wonderful WAHM with incredible service, but I can't really even go to the review boards and post about being overcharged for a shoddy sewing job or a custom order gone bad.
ETA: that I cannot type when I have slept less than 4 hours in 3 days...


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## weetzie (May 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michray*
I have always thought it odd that I could come on here a hundred times and rave about a beautiful diaper or a wonderful WAHM with incredible service, but I can't really even go to the review boards and post about being overcharged for a shoddy sewing job or a custom order gone bad.

See, I think that that is a common perception, but I *think* that it is incorrect--someone please correct me if I am wrong. We are encouraged to leave honest negative reviews, as well as honest positive reviews.


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

You can definetly leave negative feedback.Trust me I know









I personally am too scared too , especially when a WAHM is very popular around here.But I do know I have the option to if I wanted.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindsayloo2020*
You know what? I am now very upset. I have heard from multiple people in this post who now have been suspended fro the TP or other parts of the board because of posts made here and the Admin clearly stated so.
!

What?







I can't believe that.







Just for discussing what was asked to be discussed? How awful.


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

nak

The Trading Post restrictions that were made today have nothing to do with this thread. The reason some users that are temporarily restricted from accessing TP is because they were not maintaining an adequate posting ratio, as outlined in the TP Guidelines.


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trishshack*
nak

The Trading Post restrictions that were made today have nothing to do with this thread. The reason some users that are temporarily restricted from accessing TP is because they were not maintaining an adequate posting ratio, as outlined in the TP Guidelines.

Why were they quoted on this thread than when the offense was made? I guess Im just a TAD confused.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I am disgusted that there are women on here that will threaten a WAHM with making a bad post about their product on MDC if the wahm doesn't give them what they want. Are they gangsters? Jees.









I obviously was not aware of this issue and I'm glad that the mods are doing something about it.


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## ChristinaB (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Mamajaza**
I am disgusted that there are women on here that will threaten a WAHM with making a bad post about their product on MDC if the wahm doesn't give them what they want. Are they gangsters? Jees.









I obviously was not aware of this issue and I'm glad that the mods are doing something about it.









It happens more than you (or anyone else) knows.. not to me but I do know it happens, it is really VERY sad. It's good that this is out in the open now and rules are being formed because of things like this. That is what needs to remembered.


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## Ok (Feb 6, 2004)

Question & comment:

Have the mods found comments in here helpful towards finding the middle ground? Is something going to come out of this discussion? (ie, still working towards a reasonable compromise?)

And add me to the list that is horrified by any sort of extortion tactics used by either buyer or seller.







I'd like to think that hearing public opinion against such tactics would change those folks, but I'm cynical enough to think they are adults and know right from wrong and they have chosen to be selfish instead of ethical.


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## Book Addict Jen (Mar 1, 2004)

I am on the fence. I would LOVE to be able to see posts about CS. But I know with PMS & pregnancy hormones it can get ugly sometimes. But I do think if we can't post neg we shouldn't be able to post pos.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

I haven't made any decisions yet. I can see that several people think the advisory panel is not a good idea and would not use it (a feel it to be heavy handed moderating, 'secrect society' stuff, and what have you). And there are others who think it would be a possible solution.

It does come down to the fact that we do not want to host threads for public discussion that are a matter of disagreement between one member and another or a WAHM and a member. That would be the difference - limited versus public participation. I feel that if someone is truly seeking advice and suggestions for their problem the panel will offer them that. If they are seeking a vent support thread then they will not want the panel and will be the ones who want to post their issue to the Diapering board for everyone and their friends to respond to for public view.

Why the 'anonymous' approach? Because it would help remove any potential bias. You don't know who is asking and who is responding. You just have a general issue presented and opinions and advice offered for that issue.

We will begin by putting the other changes that I posted about into practice. I have already discussed it with the mods but we still need to make changes to our written policies in the Rules and Guidelines thread.

So for now we'll take that step and I'll see if that helps ease some of our concerns and needs to bring balance to the forum.


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## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *detergentdiva*
Unfortunately these cases are not rare anymore, they happen more and more frequently.

I have been doing this now 5 years. It has gotten more and more common.

Seems it is easier to "talk" the negative and keep quiet on everything else. Everyone seems to enjoy some good gossip and slander except those that it is about. We are all human. We all go through times in our lives we would like to forget. Personally I had a period of time when I was not focused on my business but instead on a failing marriage and health. I SHOULD have shut down but it was the only $ we had coming in. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is a shame though it comes too late. When people forward me "gossip" or slamming emails I delete. I think there should be some kind of compromise with this but am not sure how. By all means the customer has the most right to protection BUT sometimes 1 sided stories are just that. 1 sided. And those stories get twisted and turned once 1 person shares it. Usually the biz owner is the one to suffer...








to everyone this is just my feelings on it take or leave it.

Sorry 1 handed typing due to a really crabby 5 yo with stitches







Sure I have tons of typos


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