# Internet Porn and teenage boys



## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I can't believe I'm posting this here or anywhere, for that matter. I happened upon the history button on my computer tonight and found that my oldest son (13 in Feb) has been viewing pornography on the internet. We have parental controls and he has shut them off when we're away. What's worse is that our computer is in our play room and he's been doing this while babysitting siblings. I asked him about it and he lied, of course. I told him I knew what he was doing and he finally admitted it. You need to know that I am a very conservative person. I don't watch TV unless the kids are sleeping, I don't watch movies, I don't read any mainstream publications or books, there is nothing sexually explicit in our home at all. I have always been very open with him about sex in general and it's place in society. Porn is so disgusting, IMO. I'm home all day with the kids schooling them, playing games with them, reading to them. I feel like such a failure, though. I thought I could trust him and that trust is really quite shattered at this point. He's at my parent's house tonight which is probably good so I can gather myself before I have to talk with him. I just had to vent about this. Thanks for listening.


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## teachermom (Nov 21, 2001)

this is not a reflection on what kind of mom you are or what kind of kid he is. he is just a teenage boy with teenage curisoity. I would first see if you can move your computer to a very public place in the house. what parental security do you have on your computer? I have norton and I can set it where only the administrator can change settings. my ds does not even know that there is an adminstrator because I set it to hide that user. he of course does not know the password to use adminstrator even if he found it. as for how to deal with your son about it...maybe explain why you feel porn is bad/innaproperate with out making it about _his_ sexuallity just keeping it general. you could limit his computer usuage to when you are home until you feel that he is being responsible for it. just so you know...the history can be erased, which now that he has been caught by it he will most likely figure out. I can't remember which but either norton or windows xp have a feature where it logs all websites visited and can not be cleared.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

We also have norton and I'm an idiot and didn't know you could set a password. Needless to say that has now been done. Norton has the weblogs that cannot be erased. Our computer is in our most main room, what would be a dining room but is a play room in the front of our house. That's why I put it here. Ugh, parenting babies is so much easier, and fun, than parenting teens.

I have already told him that his feelings/urges/etc are normal. Acting on them in this manner, however, is not. Esp when in charge of younger siblings. Also, he's not even supposed to be on the internet or computer when I'm not home.







Anyway, thank you for responding.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Actually, acting on his sexual feelings and curiosity by seeking out porn is normal. All teenage kids do it. The internet has just made it easier to get. It is not, however, acceptable to you in your home and possibly in front of your younger children. I'm not conservative about things like you so I don't have any advice or ideas of what to do to keep him from looking at the porn. However, I agree with teachermom that it is not a reflection of your parenting or his character. It's a natural curiosity. It might be better to have your dh talk to him about what you think is acceptable and unacceptable regarding sex and why. Don't despair because there is nothing wrong with your son. On the contrary, this shows that your son is a normal teenage boy.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

After sleeping on it I realized that my upset is not so much from looking at the porn, though it's not the best place to find out about sex, IMO. My real issue is him doing it in broad daylight, in the playroom, while babysitting. That makes me very ill. If a babysitter that I hired (and we do pay him) did that I would so freak out!!! Anyway, thanks again for the support. I am glad that he's normal, :LOL I just wish he was normal in private.


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## Coffee Mom (Dec 21, 2004)

You are right, the issue isn't the porn but the viewing of it with younger children around and while he's babysitting. Although I don't have any boys, I'm sure your son is very normal, he just needs to learn to do these things in private. Best of luck!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Maybe he's not ready to babysit yet. If this happened with someone outside the family, or even someone else in your family like a neice or uncle, you would not hire them again because it would be obvious they don't show good judgement of what is and is not appropriate around young children. I think you should react the same way with your older children. Don't "hire" him to babysit again.

I know how easy it is to expect your older children to watch your younger ones while you run out for a quick errand or get some much needed shopping done but 13, especially for boys, is not always as mature as we'd like to think. I would never let my 13yo ds babysit my almost 1yo because I know that he is not emotionally mature enough. I do sometimes ask him to watch the baby for maybe 5-10 minutes while I run to the convenience store for a soda. He usually offers to go to the store for me instead because he doesn't want to babysit even for such a short time.

One thing that came to my mind after reading your original post was how you could be so sure that it was him looking at the porn. But then you said he eventually confessed so I guess this isn't an issue unless he might confess to something he didn't really do because he was backed into a corner.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
Maybe he's not ready to babysit yet. If this happened with someone outside the family, or even someone else in your family like a neice or uncle, you would not hire them again because it would be obvious they don't show good judgement of what is and is not appropriate around young children. I think you should react the same way with your older children. Don't "hire" him to babysit again.

I know how easy it is to expect your older children to watch your younger ones while you run out for a quick errand or get some much needed shopping done but 13, especially for boys, is not always as mature as we'd like to think. I would never let my 13yo ds babysit my almost 1yo because I know that he is not emotionally mature enough. I do sometimes ask him to watch the baby for maybe 5-10 minutes while I run to the convenience store for a soda. He usually offers to go to the store for me instead because he doesn't want to babysit even for such a short time.

.

Ds took the Red Cross Babysitting class two years ago. I didn't really let him babysit until recently. And, no, he won't be hired again anytime soon.

We talked this evening and hashed a few things out. There was no yelling or crying or anything like that. He was punished for lieing, punished for abusing his babysitting privelages but not punished for curiousity. And I know it was him based on the time and date on the computer history.

Thanks again everyone!


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

sorry this is happening! I was just thinking about you today, isn't that weird?

I haven't read all the other responses yet, so maybe I'm repeating, but, I too am a very conservative person when it comes to this stuff.

You need to password protect the parental controls immediately. If he can still bypass them, he must not be allowed to use a computer that has internet access. Period. Not even at thelibrary.

Curiosity about sex is ok, but looking at porn and having sex at his age are not ok (I don't believe porn is ever okay, actually). I would discuss sex with him in a very open way *always in the context of religion, marriage and conception*. You are a conservative Catholic, right? So you undertand what I'm talking about. Tell him that it is spiritually dangerous to dabble in sexual things like this outside the sacrament of marriage. Tell him that sex is not "dirty" or something to be ashamed of, but that when a woman has sex, she is sharing her soul. Does he want a woman's soul to be used like that? Sex should be a sacred act between husband and wife, in the context of conception. This is the trad. Catholic viewpoint, right?

Others don't have these beliefs, but even though I'm not Catholic, you & I do.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ekblad7+*
Ds took the Red Cross Babysitting class two years ago.

That's good. I can't even get my ds to take the classes.


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## wildbozmommy (Feb 18, 2004)

We went through this with our now 15yo DS at that age. Even though it's normal, you have to remember the crap that is out there is not the innocent naked woman stuff that was available when we were growing up. Looking at porn can also become a destructive habit if it's not nipped in the bud. We have strict parental controls on our kids' computers and get reports just about everyday that list what sites they were on and what sites were blocked, etc. There are lots of good programs out there that you can download that will give you even greater control. Good luck!


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
That's good. I can't even get my ds to take the classes.


Well, he seemed to learn alot then but I think he needs a refresher. He must have missed the part where they said "don't look at porn on the computer when caring for young children" :LOL Seriously, he liked the classes alot. There was only one other boy in the class but he didn't seem to mind.

I think having the password will help so much (i'm such an idiot to not know that was available before) but I would love to get the reports too. I'll have to check into that.


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## teachermom (Nov 21, 2001)

I agree that parenting teens (or even almost teens) is so much harder. The issues just seem to get so much more important. sounds like you are in a better place about this incident. I'm glad. ds and I talk alot about the porn crap that you can find on-line...luckily for me at this point I think he mostly thinks the idea of sex is gross, mostly-not totally. :LOL


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## LadyGodiva (Nov 12, 2004)

Being curious about sexuality is normal and healthy for boys this age (and older







).

He should learn of that incident.... that, as others have already said
1) viewing porn in the presence of young children is not acceptable. Make him think of the consequences if he'd been doing that while sitting the neighbours' children?
2) and what I find of crucial importance, that pronography is NOT THE REAL THING. It's not the norm, it's not the avarage person's sexlife. It does not depict the avarage person's body. Pornography is a multi million dollar buisness. It's about making money.....

But there are alternatives to porn. Take an artbook: There are many erotic paintings & sculptures. Themes of legendary lovers, paintings of haremwomen dressed in the lightest of muslin cloth, in a room think with incsent smoke, filled with luxurious cushions & guilded furniture. Stunning female (and male!) nudes.
At the same time, he'll learn to recognise a David or a Dégas









As to the poster that said to tell the boy sex outside marriage was bad for his spirituality......... I don't agree with that. I feel a young person must make experiences. "







try before you buy"
Plus the fact that maybe he does not want to follow into his parent's footsteps in that matter when he's adult and living his own life.

All the best!


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildbozmommy*
We went through this with our now 15yo DS at that age. Even though it's normal, you have to remember the crap that is out there is not the innocent naked woman stuff that was available when we were growing up. Looking at porn can also become a destructive habit if it's not nipped in the bud. We have strict parental controls on our kids' computers and get reports just about everyday that list what sites they were on and what sites were blocked, etc. There are lots of good programs out there that you can download that will give you even greater control. Good luck!

I was going to make this same point.

I don't have a problem with porn, boys and girls at this age will seek it out. Whether it's a magazine or a racy book. That's normal. And I understand that you were mostly upset about your sons, uh, timing.....

I do have a problem with teenagers seeing some of the stuff that is on the internet! That's not cool.......


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Tell him that sex is not "dirty" or something to be ashamed of, but that when a woman has sex, she is sharing her soul.








Do you mean that a man is not, or is there just some other reason to emphasis a "woman sharing her soul"?

TIA,
Kay


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

I am not exactly sure how to say this but it is crossing my mind when I read this thread- I agree and totally support you on the not while babysitting kids and not in a room they are in. But just exactly how/when if only left alone with temptation when babysitting was he going to try this? Just wondering


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I don't know if I understand your question but he was babysitting a couple of weeks ago and did do this.


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

I guess I'm curious too about this. My kids aren't at this age yet, but I also wonder how to handle this. I agree internet porn use can be a destructive habit and doesn't represent healthy sexuality very well to young kids just learning about sex. OTOH, I also think their seeking it out is normal.

So, how do you help them channel these urges? Do you direct them to racy novels? Permit certain kinds of porn? I'm at a loss. It seems like saying it's just forbidden is a way of denying the reality of their feelings.

How do you AP porn?


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chicagomom*
How do you AP porn?

The question of the day!!!!!

I want to see this at the top of the main forums page!


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

:


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

Well...one way to AP porn might be this...when my brother was 11 or so we lived overseas and the news stands all had various nudey magazines just out and about for the world to peek at. So he did. Over and over and over. Everytime we would pass one he would just stare and stare at the covers. So. Everytime we passed one my mom would ask him if he wanted a magazine. He would blush and say no. She would ask if he was sure. My dad would also do the same thing. Finally one day he said, okay. So he and my dad went and purchased it and then they went and had a talk about it. I'm not sure what exactly they talked about but I do know that the ogling stopped after that. I think, knowing my dad, they probably talked about how the magazine wasn't real, that it had nothing to do with love, how sex can be both a wonderful thing and a destructive thing all depending on circumstance, and that having self-pride and wanting women to have pride were important things but that liking women (and their bodies) was natural. To me being open and honest and guideing embodies the AP parent of children and adolescents...

Now...how do you AP sex???









Happy New Year,

Jenne


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## bettymundy (Jan 8, 2005)

Hi, this is my first posting, although I am a long time mothering reader..just never seemed to have time to get chatting unfortunately. Anyway, it is desperately sad that my first posting would be for this reason, but I could really use the support and advice of a greater, like minded community.
I was helping my nine year old son clean up his room two days ago. I opened a box and saw a bunch of folded up papers..he's a packrat so i never thought, just unfolded the first to see if it should be thrown out or not, and it was a pornagraphic picture printed from a computer (our's, as it turns out). There were many more, and I only looked at a couple, they were nauseating, but the worst was the list written in our beeswax crayon by his childish hand, listing site after site with little boxes next to them for checks when he'd been there.
Understand, we are a homeschooling family, with no t.v, no newspaper delivery, we don't even listen to NPR when our kids are around. We moniter everything they watch and see, our computer is in the kitchen, I sit with him whenever he does a search in case he ever came across anything by accident, and he is limited to 1/2 hour a day.True, I can be in and out of the room, but I am always near. I felt very certain that he would not be aware of porn unless by accident, but I was wrong. Someone, and he named another child in our community who is denying all knowledge, gave him a list of sites to visit, and I have that list too.
He and his best friend asked for a sleepover, not an unusual occurence for them, and they and another friend slept in our den. After we had gone up to bed they snuck into the kitchen to get online and view the listed sites, and printed out material.
I feel so stupid because we saw those sites in our cookies, and on our printer list, and assumed they were deposited there by some kind of spyware. I even asked around for software which could prevent this because I wanted to protect my child from coming across it. We deleted them right away and congratulated ourselves on keeping our home safe....
Last night we went right through our address bar to see if there are anymore sites and we got all the way to x before we found one. He's gone looking while I've been reading to or attending his sisters, when I thought he was looking at Bionicle sites! And he confirmed this for us.
There is high emotion in our home, and I am devestated. The accused child's mother says the list I have is not in her child's hand, so my son likely lied about this too.
He is a sweet, lovely boy, my firstborn, and every time I look at him I see the things he's seen, and I can't meet his eyes.
We are trying to keep a level head, talk about what he's seen, and he claims he wants to leave it all behind and becomes very hysterical when we talk to him, but I am becoming concerned that this is a cover, and I am loosing perspective.
I don't want to make it bigger, and the other boys families spoke to their sons and feel that it is taken care of, but I am afraid my boy has problems, and am beginning to wonder if he should have counselling.
I read with interest the other threads, but my son is so much younger that I don't feel I can write it off as just natural curiosity.
Thank you for reading such a long entry, and I welcome all responses,


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## honey (Nov 28, 2003)

Betty,
I don't really know what to say about this other than 1) welcome to MDC and 2) I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have an almost 9 yo son and I would feel very strange about him seeing porn, much stranger than if it had been my 14 yo. It just seems young, and that some innocence was lost. I wish I knew what else to say.







It sounds like you are a great mom.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Betty - I am so sorry that you are going through this. Though my son is 12, I imagine his maturity level to be a bit younger. I was in your shoes about looking at him and still can't look into his eyes (granted it's only been a week). The worst was looking at the history on the computer and seeing a few porn sites and then Lego.com or something. How sad. I wish I could tell you what to do. I think counseling would probably be a good idea. I don't know if you attend church but our priest talked with Brandon (at Brandon's request) for a long time last week. It seemed to really help alot. It steps things up a lot when this type of thing happens.







PM me if you want to talk further.


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

Betty,

My heart goes out to you! Just a thought I had and wanted to share. Perhaps he wasn't looking at the those sites for sexual gratification but instead because it was naked ladies? That may not seem like a difference but to me it is a big one. I think there are many 9 year old boys who would jump at the chance to see a woman's breasts. Not because of a sexual urge but because it has the allure of the unusual. As a former teacher of boys I have seen my fair share of folded up print outs and magazine pages which I found shoved into backpack bottoms and then the tears and hysterics over the embarrassment at getting caught. I think talking with your son and talking with his friends' parents was the best course of action. If you are religious and want him to speak with a minister/pastor/priest/mullah/rabbi that would work too. I'm not sure a trip to a social worker/psychologist type counselor is in order though. Most likely he is incredibly embarassed and really does want to just move on. Obviously you know what is best for your son and are in the best place to gauge what type of intervention is nescessary. Rest assured that this is not too unusual...

Happy New Year,

Jenne


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

I agree with Jenne (nice responses - thanks!)

Unless there is some other thing you are concerned about (such as abuse), I would chalk it up to curiousity and interest in naked bodies, and wouldn't escalate it to a psychologist visit. It might help you to talk to your minister or priest; I don't know if I would send him (I guess it would depend on how comfortable your son is with the person). Being confronted/ embarrassed/ chastised by an unfamiliar person might make things worse, rather than better.

It sounds like part of the problem for you is that he was hiding it and lying. My heart goes out to you.

I'd be curious to know from where the list came - an older friend or sibling?


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

The most difficult thing we are ever called on to do is not to overreact when we are shocked. A teen boy's curiosity and looking at porn are perfectly normal. Even younger is normal, too, depending on the person. My MIL found playboy under dh's bed when he was 7! Her ped told her to ignore it. If a son had been looking at some "hardcore" sites you might want to explain that not everyone enjoys every activity....







But your point about porn being disgusting, "in your opinion" is to me the real issue. It isn't disgusting to many people. Many love it, or could take it or leave it, etc. As our children mature we have to take into account that they may have very different opinions about this sort of thing and opinions are not values. By this I mean your family's values aren't threatened by this. You've raised him well, no doubt, and the values you have instilled are in there.

I totally understand why you'd be upset bc he was looking at it while in charge of his siblings, though. I have even had to speak to my friend's 17yo dd about what she does while in charge of the younger ones (she wanted to borrow our copy of A Clockwork Orange while babysitting!?!?!). BUT if you set it up so he can't ever look at it, he's going to try to see it somewhere, and that might not be what you want to encourage, either, because you will be completely in the dark about what he's doing...I would never offer advice on this, you have to do what's right for your home, but just a thought that crossed my mind.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

We are going throught this here with DS, 14, too. He doesn't go to porn sites as such though. He learned, from his friends we guess, that Google image searches will turn up porn or porn-ish images.

We now have internet access password protected with content levels set at 0. You need the password to get the Excite! homepage, or Yahoo even. For DH and me to use the internet, we can disable the content control, but to keep him from the Google image pages, it must be set at 0. They are flying under the porn content radar somehow.









We didn't tell him that we'd done this. It was interesting to see how he reacted when I left him home alone the next time, and he did indeed try to go online without permission. At this point it's almost game between him and his dad, but not a serious one, so far. He's had a good thorough sex ed course too, so it's not uninformed curiousity.

We will not buy him a magazine, or a toy. As DH put it, we didn't have that stuff when I was his age.
Maybe I should give him access to my copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves?:LOL


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## our veggie baby (Jan 31, 2005)

I am against porn because I see most of it as the complete objectification of women and that is NOT okay with me at all...I would have no problem, well I guess, not nealy as much of a problem if it were just say, nude models, or even fondling, kissing, caressing type things my son was looking at, but some of these sites WOW...I mean, some REALLY hardcore stuff, borderlining on abuse of women in my opinion and I wouldn't in any capacity want my son to actually think that it was okay to treat women in such a manner, to use them as *playthings* and everything that goes along with it---because let's be realistic here folks, most porn is geared heavily towards men and THEIR pleasure, and a lot of it that I have seen portrays women in a VERY submissive, serving, objectified way---except of course on the whole other S&M scale, which has it's own downfalls to me....

So anyway, while I feel curiosity is very normal, I would NOT be cool with the online porn thing AT ALL-- if it were say, one or two sites and that was it, I probably wouldn't even address it and chalk it up to curiosity, but if it were like, site after site after site in the history etc, I would really start to think something was amiss and would address the situation immediately!

There would be a lot of discussion, I can say that for sure, and I would take it from there I guess...


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## Curious Me (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenne*
Well...one way to AP porn might be this...when my brother Now...how do you AP sex???









Jenne


What does AP mean?


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

AP= attachment parent/ing

A major philosophy that most of the posters on this site share is that of attachment parenting. For more info on attachment parenting (if you are interested) just see any of Dr. Sear's books or just poke around on this site for a while. AP has some major componenets such as not allowing infants/toddlers to cry it out, being present and participating in your child's life, co-sleeping, slinging babies/toddlers, etc...

If you want more info you can pm me...
Hope that helps...
Jenne


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## OverTheWater (Mar 2, 2005)

I am writing this entry with more annoyance than when I started, as a dropped connection meant I lost my entire post the first time&#8230;.!

I am a 19-year-old student in the UK. I was brought up in a traditional CofE family, was lucky enough to go to a very good school and am now at university. My parents weren't particularly technology-minded, so we didn't get the internet until about 1998. I was already interested in computers though, and am studying them now.

I am posting this because I am currently out doing some personal online research into the effects of exposure pornography to children; something I think applies to me. I should mention that I had no sisters (4 younger brothers!) and went to an all-male school until 16, when it became mixed. I don't know if this was a catalyst to me becoming overly involved in pornography so young, but perhaps. Upon reading this message board I want to clarify some things from the viewpoint of someone who was a teenage son (still is really!) living at home only a few years ago.

When we were at school there wee occasional rumours of someone having found an adult magazine and brought it into school. Sometimes people were caught, and punished. I was fortunate to be at a very good, traditional school and I think this helped to minimise how much pornography was in circulation. However, I was aware that at about 14 or 15 there were a group of us who seemed a lot more "interested" in pornography than other people. We had the internet and I would look at pornographic sites on a regular basis. My parents had no idea. Looking back, I am absolutely appalled at the kind of content I was allowed to access and the ease with which I could get to it. My first knowledge of women and sex was gained through pornography and it was a poor image.

I looked at pornography for years, the amount I used unaffected by girlfriends or relationships. I wasn't an unhealthy teenager sexually and didn't treat women badly. I am now with a girlfriend who I've been with for two years. She has had much the same upbringing as me from a "nice" background and a traditional family. Her own views on pornography are that she despises it. Not just restricted adult pornography, but soft pictures which portray women as objects. I'm proud of her also having advertising campaigns banned single-handedly by writing to the ASA, on the grounds they were degrading. She is frequently criticised (even if it's only the odd comment from more "liberal" friends) about how pornography is just "free expression" and "people's right". We are young adults in a general beset with "girl power", a term meaning equality, which frequently seems to get confused with girls dressing disgracefully, having no self-respect or dignity and condoning pornography as a "bit of fun". This article I have just read is an example of this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4305257.stm - it is the comments in the article which are a bit more reassuring though.

I wish these people, who turn a blind eye to an industry built on degradation, knew about porn in the 21st century, and how the adult internet industry is keeping up with the collective desensitisation to everything. I would be lying if I said I never look at pornography online anymore, even though I practically live with my girlfriend, but the truth is I feel addicted to it. Moreover, I hate it. I share her opinions and dislike the part of myself that feels the need for porn. I am surfing now to find articles about if my "addition" is purely mental.
Anyone who says porn is "a bit of fun" is living 20 years ago where it was an industry of dirty old men and backstreet shops. The kind of sites that are *the norm* on the internet now - NOT HIDDEN AWAY - contain, as a matter of course, simulated rape, openly degrading treatment of women where they are sworn at and treated disrespectfully. Sex has been totally decimated on these sites and every aspect of lovemaking removed from it leaving obscene footage showing girls upset and crying. The sites then CAPITALISE on this and sell it further, marketing their appalling treatment of women. When children are looking at pornography online this is what they are seeing. There are almost no regulations to enforce obscenity laws on the 'net, and any that get in the way of pornographers are bypassed by putting their servers on some remote island, out of the reach of the authorities. Finding tasteful erotica online now is one of the most difficult things to do.

I feel that my younger years as a teenager were ruined by pornography. You should know that your children are fortunate to have parents who are familiar with techniques to limit use. Personally, and I know this sounds totally archaic and unreasonable, but unless things change drastically, when I have children I will doubtless not allow them on the internet at home at all. Schools are provided with extremely complex software to filter out adult sites, which is more powerful than any home product. Until children are older, I don't see the need for the internet in anything more than an educational capacity anyway. Obviously, these are my personal views - and as you can appreciate, they may be slightly extreme given my own unfortunate experience! - But it's not as if parents can place any faith in the companies marketing this filth to keep it from minors. The entire industry is driven by "clickthoughs" - traffic between sites. If one pornographer can get a user to click on a banner to visit a fellow pornographers site, that earns him one cent. He doesn't care how old that user is or where their parents are.

The internet is a fantastic resource, but unfortunately it's been poisoned by people with no care for the welfare of children.


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## OverTheWater (Mar 2, 2005)




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## The Duchess (Mar 11, 2005)

That is a fantastic post OverTheWater and I really appreciate your candor. I am the mother of two young girls and I have recently been thinking very seriously about this issue because of all the points you raise. I am very concerned at the thought that my girls will be growing up in a world where boys and men (and of course girls and women) can get instant access to the most depraved images and videos imaginable. I understand there HAVE been studies showing that porn is indeed addictive and also that many sexual predators became addicted at a young age.

As you say, even compared to say, the late 80s the stuff that anyone worldwide can access on the web is extremely frightening. Knowing that so many boys and men are receiving their education about women and sex from these sources makes me fear for the generation growing up. I would imagine it is a rare man who doesn't view internet porn on a regular basis. Knowing that all these computer literate kids can do them same is unreal. In the future what teenager/man that our girls will date will NOT have been introduced to sex in this way? My DH uses porn and even with him I have to point out "You know these are not female fantasizes, right? This is not created by women and does not reflect female sexuality". He also describes feeling drawn to it sometimes and then feeling self-hatred afterwards.

We are transforming our world with pornography and though most people seem concerned it seems like everyone feels powerless. There is no serious opposition to the endless flood of pornographic images available.

As a child of around 9 or 10 (I think) I found a porn magazine in my local park. I took it to school and showed it some of my friends who were boys, because I knew they would be interested. I was found out and disciplined. Then I also found porn that my dad had in the house as a teenager and I was shocked to find him looking at images of 16 year olds! Many of these images I can still recall to this day. Because of their very nature porn images seem to stick in the mind. I think the barrage of images is not just "normal curiosity" anymore. 20 years ago you had to actively seek out this stuff, now it is trying to get into your in-box every morning.

I have also met men who literally spend all their spare time looking at porn and playing video games all on the computer. Needless to say they are immature and have no idea how to sustain a relationship. How much worse will it get if we are letting pornographers spoonfeed our children from year dot?

I feel some parents don't really see the magnitude and significance of the huge culture change (should I say collapse?) that is happening right under their noses. Their kids are way more sophisticated technologically and yet they do not have the maturity or limits that adults have in place.


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## Ruby (Jan 20, 2004)

Overthewater, great post. I believe porn to be very destructive.

Ladies here is the web address http://covpro.net/ for the internet filter we use. So far we've been very happy with it.


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## TenFedNed (May 4, 2005)

I think it is better to talk your son out of porn, explaining it has nothing to do with love, but on the other hand he will always find a way to see more porn. You can't totally avoid it, but you can talk to him about it.
Norton is far from being a good parental control software. For example, I can disable norton no matter if there is a password or not enough account permissions. What *will* help, is asking the ISP to block the porn sites.


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

I went into my computer's history after seeing this thread. Much to my surprise, every day that my 13 yo son was home alone their are visits to porn. I am so sad. Thanks to this thread and the posters, I am now going to nip this problem in the bud, before it gets too big (hopefully).


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## the sunshine (Jul 31, 2003)

I had to bar my son from the computer finally. He just could not stop. It was frustrating and sad, and I wish he had never seen the things that he did.


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## TenFedNed (May 4, 2005)

If you _totally_ ban him from it, it will only increse his desire to get more. IMHO you should *talk* to him about it, and from that point just trust him and see if does that more rearly afterwards.
Dunno if that helps, but I tried


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## the sunshine (Jul 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TenFedNed*
If you _totally_ ban him from it, it will only increse his desire to get more. IMHO you should *talk* to him about it, and from that point just trust him and see if does that more rearly afterwards.
Dunno if that helps, but I tried









We went down that road four or five times. He just could not resist the porn.


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## TenFedNed (May 4, 2005)

Then you should ask the ISP to block the porn sites.
Maybe it would be a good idea to get him some books about puberty too.


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## paganmommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Looking at porn is not "normaL" in the sense that all males do it. Boys in American society are bombarded with images of women being sexual in order for companies to profit off of our children. Boys are socialized from a very early age in this country to objectify women, it continues the patriarchal conditioning of this society. If looking at porn were just normal for men, then all cultures would have pictures of women to look at, either in the sand or done on a tree if there is no computer.

My point is: your son is going through puberty and beginning to have sexual feelings and of course this is normal, but looking at porn is only going to help him learn to objectify women. I am sure you have done an amazing job at trying to keep these images at a distance, this story only solidifies my belief how powerful the media is.

My suggestion would be to talk about why women are objectified in this country. Why he is being used for other people's profits, etc. Their is a good book about the negative effects of pornography called "The Centerfold Syndrome". I would recommend it.

Good luck to you.


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## Queencaledonia (Aug 18, 2004)

We live in interesting times, no doubt of that. South Park, a show most AP parents dislike and I usually find offensive had a very good episode about the effects of Porn. THe power of porn was likened to the power of the ring in Lord of the Rings and everywhere a certain video tape went that the main characters thought was a copy of LOTR, destruction followed.

It is easy to say, just like anything else with parenting that if we would just do this or that our child will be fine, not objectify the opposite sex and be in a healthy relationship and their lives not consumed by abject fantasy, so they are non-productive people. This is not true or there would not be such heartfelt discussion going on here on this board. I commend your courage, Over the Water.
It is important to keep in mind all the "History of Sex" of humans in general, along with our personal experiences of it. In fact, I highly recommend the "History of Sex" video set. It didn't do anything for people of those eras either to be trapped by sex urges to the point where there society degraded and fell. In fact, any desire we have, over-indulged in can lead us astray yet at the same time our desires drive us to live and make art, and the most out of our lives. Many people spend the same amount of time addicted to other things but they are nto sexual and are just as bad.
Often people use religion to keep their urges at bay. I go along with Frank Herbert's idea that religion has used the power of our sex drives to accomplish its own aims. Some of us hope that by knowing our urges we will overcome them or control them to the extent we will have fulfilling lives.
Human beings are sexual athletes, and part of our primary drive in living is to produce more offspring. The "Human Body" IMAX film version talks about this history as well.

Porn plays out not just sex fantasies, but sex roles and psychological issues. The bondage issues. The submissive woman the dominant male(s) is not necessarily considered s&m but dom fem always is. We live in a world where the vast majority still practice religions that, whatever their followers may say, puts women in the submissive role as they are the perpetual reason for man's supposed downfall from Utopia. We have "mother goddess" religions and feminine spirituality on the rise even as violence against women rises in areas such as porn by those who want to keep this submission in play. These people cannot see there NOT being a submissive sex, or a submissive being to God relationship.

One of porn's most detrimental things is that it does not just objectify women or men, but that a person is utterly removed from the fact that human life is meant to be created by the sex act. When you add that in to the porn factor, and multiple partners you start wondering what sort of parents would create life in thsi way. With or with out birth control the fact of the matter is that sex is while pleasurable meant to help (women especially) forget how painful the actual birth process can be (That Human Body movie talks about this)-- that in creating and bearing another life we run the risk of losing our own -- yet is a risk we take hopefully for love.

Women who employ themselves in sex trade businesses seeking to control or make a buck from the established paradigm claiming it hurts no one only fulfill the role designated for them by those who want to prove women are a lesser class spiritually, mentally and morally.

When young children seek out porn at first out of curiosity and then because they furtively desire to see these things, they are being sexualized at a young age to the point where they can think of nothing else, their child minds are incapable of dealing with strong emotions that come with sex drives. It is reprehensible that these marketer's act in such ways. Children of course, love roleplaying and porn has an endless amount of that.

I had a difficult experience with porn growing up in the early stages of puberty because I didn't want an invasive parent controlling even my sexuality; porn seems to offer a furtuve freedom but it is by no means real and will never ever teach a child or teen how to have wholesome relationships. As a teen I remember converting to a fundamentalist religion thinking porn and sexuality were a sin, and that religion was the only way to get a hold on my urges. In the long run, I had to come to terms with my own sexuality, and to finally accept the human female body as having divine spirituality, as well as the male body, for the men in pronography are usually very sleazy with the exception of the "virgin" guy who goes to prostitues for the first time or whatnot. You can get over porn male or female.

I think Porn is just as devastating to male psyches as females if you think Porn in any way accurately pictures the male sex. And the hate! The self-hate can be so horrible, feeling a lack of control and thinking you're a disgusting person for indulging init -- a vicious cycle like most addictions. This can be because you feel like you are turning into aperson you were taught to despise. Unfortunatley, if your parents are divorced you are especially vulnerable, and the construction trades are still especially vulnerable to chauvinism.
I strongly urge a reading of Frank Herbert's Dune series. A long post but I had to put it all out here.


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## Queencaledonia (Aug 18, 2004)

long post but I had to put it all out here! I also agree with paganmomma that "Porn" is not the norm just because so many view it.


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## TenFedNed (May 4, 2005)

I agree


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

I really disagree with the general tone of this thread. I'm sorry for everyone's pain, your anguish is real, but I think you're kidding yourselves.

It reminds me of the posts I've seen about sugar in children - oh no, my kid's never going to eat sugar, no no no!!!

You guys don't have TV, no magazines, just listen to NPR? Are you raising them in a bubble somewhere? And then you say you're teaching them to be open about sex? I don't think so. I think you're teaching your kids to fear the rest of the world. And we're always fascinated by what we fear.

The world is a horny place! If it wasn't for porn, the Internet wouldn't have become so easy & fun to use - what do you think drove its development? And not all porn is bad.

It's hard to accept our children's sexuality, and even more difficult to teach them to make good choices. But pretending the world doesn't exist isn't going to help them navigate more effectively.


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## Queencaledonia (Aug 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
I really disagree with the general tone of this thread. I'm sorry for everyone's pain, your anguish is real, but I think you're kidding yourselves.It reminds me of the posts I've seen about sugar in children - oh no, my kid's never going to eat sugar, no no no!!!
You guys don't have TV, no magazines, just listen to NPR? Are you raising them in a bubble somewhere? And then you say you're teaching them to be open about sex? I don't think so. I think you're teaching your kids to fear the rest of the world. And we're always fascinated by what we fear.
The world is a horny place! If it wasn't for porn, the Internet wouldn't have become so easy & fun to use - what do you think drove its development? And not all porn is bad.

Alot of what you say is valid. I like the sugar simile/metaphor. Sugar is in fruit and almost everything. Pretty hard to avoid; just like our sexualities are an important part of us, our souls, who we are as humans. Of course people are "horny" it;s paert of the human drive -- and it is a powerful force as I;ve stated, a powerful force manipulated for millenia by religions and politics for uses by those ruling classes.

Just because a lot of people are doing something means it's good for humanity as a whole. I don't think the rest of the world is all porn! NPR is pretty open about sex. I guess it depends on your town though. I think it;s important to have a healthy attitude about sex and hey, maybe a kid will look at porn out of curiosity, sure.

But do you acknowledge pron can have detrimental affects at all? I mean people who can't stop looking at porn and so they live in a subsistent existence? Is it fun and games for children to see women or men are beaten and raped/sodomized with ir without objects even if it is between mutually consenting adults? I say no.

Children getting ahold of this -- hopefully they have a loving family that can help, but it's riiculous to say watching porn frequently has no detrimental effects on the young. It all goes back to tv aarguments as well, I guess. Yes young people have their own sexualites and that is a private matter for them. But all our sexual activities become public when their actions have public consequences; when we are parents or an std is contracted or there's abortion -- and the taxes have to pay for it or society pays for it.

And I don't think people know the full price. Porn can release a dark sexual side as well as being a lighthearted bawdy romp. I don't think most young people are prepared for these complexities and nor are most adults, because most are still in these submission/dominant roles even in their everyday lives. To say that it is just a phase is a serious understatment. I don't think the internet is purely driven by porn. That may be a part of it, but people want information, intel and that drives the computer as well.

Also, people have different personalities. An idealist would certainly be affected differently by porn then a sensationalist or a guardian type, and that holds true for teens. I have said my piece for now.


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just think that human beings are complex creatures. We all have our dark side, our potential for evil. The trick is to tame it gently, not fear or try to eradicate it.

Ignoring sexual curiosity and urges won't make them go away. I won't make it easy for my kids to get access to porn, but neither will I feel ashamed of their blossoming sexuality. I'll probably follow up their sex talk by loaning them my copy of "The Joy of Sex", where the drawings are sufficiently clinical to gross out most kids. And if I find "dirty magazines" hidden in their rooms, then hidden they shall stay.

When I was 9, I found my dad's collection of Playboy magazines, boxes & boxes of them stashed in the spare bedroom closet. I didn't quite understand what was going on, but knew there had to be something good. So for a few days I'd sneak into the room & close the door & stare at the pictures, trying to figure it out.

And know what happened next?

I got bored...and started putting them in chronological order! One day my Mom walked in & found me with Playboy magazines spread all over the room! She about keeled over.

So we had "the talk" and that was that, no obsession followed.


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## paperbag (May 10, 2005)

I am a dad trying to raise a son, in a sex-saturated culture. Some of the sexual expressions that bombard our family are helpful, some are incidental, and some are harmful.

Our strategy with our kids is to freak out at nothing, and to teach legitimate ways to be sexual and sexy. This does not include porn.

Using porn seems similar to drowning puppies for sport. Most don't think about it, some find it thrilling, others are revolted at the cruelty. Like drowning puppies, porn feeds the dark side {Luke}.

Here's my personal story. I'm a sex addict since age 10 or so. Continual fantasy, masturbation, and all the porn I could get. I should point out however, that my sex addiction is not about the porn - it's about the person. If I couldn't find a playboy, a sears catalog would work in a pinch.

But that's not to say one was as good as the other. Not by a long shot.

I cannot over-estimate the shaping effect that Heffner had on my view of the world. I've trained myself to see women as sexual objects, among other handicaps. But I must agree the years of self-loathing were the worst. Though I suppose that comes with all compulsive behaviour - doing what one doesn't really want to do can tear up a human heart!

Instead of protecting me from the encouragement that porn gave to my natural bent, my parents kept it in the house. If they put it on the coffee table instead of in the closet, maybe I wouldn't have found it so appealing. But since I was an addict for 2 years before finding any porn, I don't think it would have made any difference where it was located.

I've been in recovery since age 26. The men and women I've met through Sexaholics Anonymous have found different things that work. In many cases that includes throwing away the computer and the TV.

End of personal story - sorry that so disjointed. I rarely talk about it.

Back to the topic at hand (yuk, yuk, yuk). When I find my son viewing porn the first 10 times, I'll assume it's natural curiosity. But at some point I'm going to start wondering if he inherited his dad's problems. I've read repeatedly that sexual addiction is on the rise, and I don't doubt it just based on availability.

Is your son an addict, or is he normal? You may not know till he's forty years old. What can you do in the meantime to ensure him the best chance at remaining normal or not spiraling down in an addiction?

PS. I use www.covenanteyes.com on my PC. It doesn't block anything, but it give me and my partner something to talk about since it keeps a detailed record of where I go online. $7 per month?


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

GeezerMom -







thank God you came to this thread.
And although you pretty much summed it up, I wanted to correct an assumption mentioned here. Porn is in EVERY culture, not just American. It is different, depending upon taste and culture, but it is everywhere. Check out some Indian religion, for a good starting point. We're talking full spread detail, folk. Tantra is a religious practise that reveres sex for its spirituality. Check out the Goddess worship of old, next. Check out the European paintings throughout history. Non-civilized tribal sculptures - I think the men were dreaming the members were so big on those sculptures!!

Just because one finds a particular display of sexual art tasteful (such as a Rembrandt), doesn't make it less "naked" or less "sexual". Everyone draws their own lines. Just because one has their own particular line drawn - perhaps at say, penetration photos - doesn't make one more or less moral or a better or worse parent.

In summary, American culture has dubbed sexual film and photos "porn" and anything outside of that is "tasteful erotica". That is ridiculous. Sex is sex, and there are some strange positions out there that look fairly frightful in action, but it's still sex.

Quote:

Looking at porn is not "normaL" in the sense that all males do it.
To say that looking at porn is not normal is, well, I can't think of what that is. What one considers porn is another's "tasteful erotica". Whether a man/boy looks at naked men, women, couples or groups in some sexual situation or simply for the beauty and sensuality of the naked form is completely normal, and I challenge anyone to show me one man in his 70's or older who has not indulged in said at some point in his life - and I do mean one _honest_ man.


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## emmalala (Dec 3, 2001)

To me the disgusting thing about porn is the money.

Why not discuss with your teenager how pornography is made?


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

*paperbag* I think that addictions are addictions, and porn is porn, and they're not necessarily linked. People become addicted to just about anything; banning the object of their addiction isn't the answer. Congratulations on your recovery & best wishes.

Thanks, *Calm!*.


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## paperbag (May 10, 2005)

Quote:

they're not necessarily linked. People become addicted to just about anything;
True that! I didn't mean to imply all use of porn = addiction, or that the OP's son is an addict. Only that porn addiction is life-devastating and on the rise. Many users of porn are addicted, or will become addicted.

Quote:

banning the object of their addiction isn't the answer.
What is?

Quote:

Congratulations on your recovery & best wishes.
Thanks.


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

If I knew the answer, boy oh boy, I'd be one wealthy lady!


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

Compulsive behavior can be a sickness, such as eating, sex, internet surfing and shopping for instance. Not many people get compulsive about gutter sweeping, it's usually something pleasurable. If someone gets compulsive about washing things, or gutter sweeping or other _un_pleasurable activities, it is then called OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). If it is a pleasurable activity, we call it an addiction. Addiction is the wrong word for those things, however. Compulsion is better. I believe there are various therapies to treat compulsions, at least they try to. It is about treating the individual and their deep seated emotions/preconceived ideas that lead them to compulsive behavior.

I wouldn't recommend therapy for the children in this thread, however. Treatment is for things that are outside the norm, not something that the majority does. Children discovering their sexuality as puberty blossoms is beautiful and normal, not reason for therapy. My mother raised four boys, and she allowed their privacy about matters such as porn and sexuality, as early as their biology demanded. Not one of them has a sexual problem or a sexual compulsion. And not one of them have any kind of porn compulsion. The only people we have witnessed with porn/sex problems have been abused for said, or made to feel ashamed at an early age.

Text book stuff, really.


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## paperbag (May 10, 2005)

Quote:

The only people we have witnessed with porn/sex problems have been abused for said, or made to feel ashamed at an early age.
There have actually been times I've wished I fit into one of those categories so I could come up with a stronger 'reason' for my compulsion.

Porn may be inside the norm, but it is outside the normative. How did open-mindedness about human sexuality and acceptance of a strong sex drive get linked to acceptance of porn?

Not all expressions of sexuality are legitimate. And porn is found in every culture - so what? Many harmful things are.

In my opinion there is not an answer to sexual addiction any more than there is an answer to ladybugs. Doing things against our own desires is just part of some lives and can be accepted and worked through (or ignored).

I've seen friends and acquaintances make progress by doing many different things: throwing away the PC, monitoring the PC, joining a church, leaving a church, admitting powerlessness, finding personal power, changing friends, the list goes on.

I've reflected on what purpose porn served for me as a teenager, and I think it was my #1 coping mechanism to deal with stress. If I had been channeled to something else (exercise, science experiments, ?) my reliance on fantasy and masturbation would maybe have lessened.

In a case where an otherwise healthy teen uses porn occasionally I'd look at it as a non-issue. It certainly wasn't like that for me, and based on what I've learned over time, doesn't seem like that for about 20% (and growing) of porn users.

I get a lot out of straightforward discussion and opposing viewpoints. However I don't want to divert the thread into all the reasons I think porn is hurtful, or my personal sob story, or anything else. Am I still on track?


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

Paperbag








Thank you. I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.

I don't think you are off track, but that's just my opinion. I think this helps any readers including the OP to balance the whole thing. Posts like mine and yours (and all others, of course) help create that balance.

Porn can definitely be hurtful, in the same manner that eating can be. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. But there are people dying from obesity out there, because of compulsion. Compulsion is the killer, not the expression of the compulsion. Food occupies the every waking thought for those with eating disorders, from anorexia to obesity. Porn occupies the same mind space and time for those with a fixation on it.

There are many stories of those with a certain compulsion who cure it, only to find themselves gambling their life away. These stories show a trend of the person to compulsion itself. Like the addict who gives up heroin for methodone, tries to get off the methodone program and ends up an alcoholic. Like someone I know. Whenever he then tried to give up alcohol, he slashed himself. This was also a compulsion. Which would lead one into a theory that addiction is a byproduct of compulsion itself. Yet, there are exceptions to those, there are always exceptions. But that's just me philosophizing again. Is that even a word? Anyway, I'll go now, and let this thread get back on track...

ETA - apparently certain serial killers admitted to being warped by scary porn at a very young age. Like snuff pornography, and other horrific stuff. I just wanted to mention that, as there is porn and then there is







: IYKWIM.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

Ok, let's place this in perspective. I hope I dont' sound harsh with what I am about to say... He is 13 and curious! You mean at 13 if you or your husband had access to a playboy/playgirl you wouldn't have looked? I sure would have! And I bet $200 your husband would have also.









It is normal and natural to be curious, same as it is normal and natural to masterbate, fantasize, or wish to view members of the opposite sex (or same) in the nude or in sexually provacative situations.

It would be a very poor choice to make him feel guilty about sexuality. He lied because he felt he had to, because of how angry you would have been. While the lying isn't acceptable, I am sure his fear of your wrath was his personal justification at the moment when he lied to cover himself.

While you may be disappointed that he broke the rules, would you be as equally disappointed if he broke the rules about staying out to late and lied about it? I doubt it. So why would breaking the rules about sex bring any harsher of a punishment?


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