# ReCircumcised



## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

My second son 'needs' to be recircumcised. His skin reattached very quickly. His last ped said we would have to have it redone... my DH was also redone when he was a toddler.

I was thinking that we would just leave it as is but then I read that when they get errections the scar tissue pulling on the tip can be very painful.

Our current ped wants us to apply vaseline at every diaper change and slowly pull it back ourselves... of course he does not like this.

Any advice?

ps Based on all this crap we didnt not circ our third.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I think you should leave it alone. I would not put him through another circ.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

I also agree that he should be left alone Mama! His adhesions will release on their own eventually. If they do not he can use a steroid cream or have them fixed as an adult.

Read the stories in my siggy. My son also suffers from adhesions. There is NO way I would ever put him through more pain.

Also if you have him recircumcised they will almost certainly be removing the last remnants of sensitive foreskin he has. This could lead to spilitting of the shaft skin during erections, pulling of the scrotal skin onto the shaft during erections, and extremely painful tight erections.


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## kldliam (Jan 7, 2006)

i too think you should leave it alone.







:


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## Telle Bear (Jul 28, 2006)

Leave him alone......please


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

I agree with the others, I think it makes the most sense to leave it alone.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

:







please leave him alone


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## gridley13 (Sep 3, 2004)

Leave it.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Leave it.


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## *Karen* (Jul 28, 2006)

My DS's adhesions started to pull themselves WITHOUT me touching them. So I did start putting some UN-petroleum on it at every change and it has completely pulled off now. It got thinner and thinner until when I wiped it off it pulled off. His readhered as soon as it was done, so we didn't even know they were adhesions until they started to pull off. Hopefully they do not reattach, because as they pulled they really hurt him. If they are not ripping on their own, I would leave them alone until he is older and better able to handle the pain and deal with the decision then.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

If left alone odds are very high that it will release on its own as it would have if he had been intact. Dont cause your little guy any more pain leave it be and let nature heal what was done to him.

Here is some very helpfu., information about penile adhesions and the proper care of them. ie leave them alone.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernature*
J Urol. 2001 Mar;165(3):915.

Penile adhesions after neonatal circumcision.

Ponsky LE, Ross JH, Knipper N, Kay R.

Department of Urology, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Cleveland, Ohio, USA.

"In these groups we noted an adhesion rate of 71%, 28%, 8% and 2%, respectively. The rate of adhesions more severe than grade 1 was 30%, 10% and 0% in boys 12 months old or younger, 13 to 60 and 61 months old or older, respectively. The oldest patient with grade 3 adhesions was 31 months old. Skin bridges in 6 cases involved the circumcision line in 4."

"CONCLUSIONS: Penile adhesions develop after circumcision and the incidence decreases with patient age. Although there is debate on whether to lyse these adhesions manually, our findings suggest that adhesions resolve without treatment. Based on our results we do not recommend lysing penile adhesions, except perhaps those involving the circumcision line."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

"Penile adhesions occur frequently after circumcision. Some physicians advocate manual lysis of the adhesions. This procedure can be painful and traumatic. Penile adhesions are normal in uncircumcised boys and normally resolve without treatment."

http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/...il.cfm?id=3420

Gil Fuld, M.D., F.A.A.P.

"Sometimes after a routine newborn circumcision, excess foreskin remains. Since newborn circumcision is not medically necessary, it's certainly better to leave a little extra than to take off too much and damage the child's penis."

"So, it's a common occurrence in little boys for adhesions to develop under any remaining foreskin, although it's rarely a problem and practically never requires a repeat circumcision."

http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_d...NC&sub_cat=474

Vincent Iannelli, M.D.

"It isn't really normal, but is a common complication after a circumcision. In a situation like this, penile adhesions form when the skin on the shaft of the penis attaches itself to the glans or head of the penis. In extreme cases, it can look like the child was never even circumcised, leading parents to believe that the child had a 'bad circumcision.'"

"If the skin is attached only on the very base of the glans, then your child has a very mild case of penile adhesions and you can likely just leave it alone. It should eventually separate, especially once your child becomes older, and anyway, forcing it apart would be painful."

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weekl...l_adhesion.htm

"The foreskin will almost always detach itself in time as a boy develops. It should not be forcibly retracted. This may lead to scarred adhesions that will not detach without surgery. Penile growth is not usually influenced by adhesion of the foreskin to the glans penis."

http://www.henryfordhealth.org/19160.cfm


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## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

Okay so when will it likely unattach by itself? Right not it is attached all the way around the head, closer to the tip on one side. He does not like it touched- we try to teach him to hold his penis down to pee in the toilet and he does not like it.

I wanted to leave it alone except that I dont want him to have erection issues later in life. We never notice any erections now, whereas his older brother had them very frequently. I am starting to worry that it is painful for him.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
Okay so when will it likely unattach by itself? Right not it is attached all the way around the head, closer to the tip on one side. He does not like it touched- we try to teach him to hold his penis down to pee in the toilet and he does not like it.

I wanted to leave it alone except that I dont want him to have erection issues later in life. We never notice any erections now, whereas his older brother had them very frequently. I am starting to worry that it is painful for him.

It will be MORE painful to him to have it continually ripped apart than to leave it alone. Also the continued manual lysing of the adhesions can lead to MORE scar tissue and nerve damage.

His remaining foreskin is attempting to act as an intact boy's would and protect the glans. That is why it keeps reattaching.

If left alone it will release much as an intact boy's foreskin would become retractable. It can take all the way to adulthood for this process to take place.

If it does not happen by the time he is an ADULT he can choose to use steroid creams or have the adhesions lysed surgically at that time.

He will likely not have any erection issues at all if left alone. The erection issues will be caused by an overzealous repeat circumcision or repeated manual lysing of his adhesions.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

: The more cutting and ripping apart that is done is going to result in more places on his penis as a adult that have little to no feeling at all. If you leave it alone and give everything a chance to release as it was supposed to then he can get any remaining bridges fixed later on if he chooses to. My dh chooses to keep his skin bridge tho a dr kindly offered to cut it for him when he went in for his vasectomy







:

The body has a remarkable ability to heal but for it to do so it needs time. I know you are worried about painful erections but if more skin is removed you are virtually guaranteeing that happening and the very real possibility that he wont have enough skin left for a full erection leading to the skin actually splitting apart when it happens.


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## Bm31 (Jun 5, 2005)

I totally agree with everyone else to leave it alone. I "had" to be re-circ'd at the age of six. The increased damages were not worth it just for the "exposed glans" appearance to please whoever. Please don't make a bad thing worse for your son.


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## Paul B. (Jul 4, 2007)

Clearly the question here is - if you _now_ comprehend that circumcision is a wholly _disastrous_ idea, how could you countenance a "re-do" to "correct" such a mistake?

My advice would most certainly be to avoid like the plague anyone who spoke in such terms, even if you were to (unwisely) credit them with a poor choice of language. In general a "re-circumcision" means no more nor less, than that they figure that the adhesions occurred because they permitted the _possibility_ of the skin resting over the glans, and propose to "correct" that be removing _so much_ more skin as to prevent any coverage of the glans - when _flaccid_.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
Okay so when will it likely unattach by itself?

The question is - what _evidence_ do you have to suggest this needs to be "fixed" at this point? I want you to move away from "but then I read that", or "His last pedo said" and focus on _your son_.

Quote:

Right now it is attached all the way around the head, closer to the tip on one side.
So it looks funny. Well, that's interesting. (I personally think that circumcised penes look extremely peculiar in general.)

Quote:

He does not like it touched - we try to teach him to hold his penis down to pee in the toilet and he does not like it.
OK, now can we determine exactly what it is that he objects to? Is it discomfort, and if so do you actually understand _where_ - is it definitely the adhesion?

Now here's a question - does he get any erection to pee? (Little boys tend to and that is what makes the aim more difficult.) If he doesn't have an erection, the penis is more flexible; but if he does have an erection, it is necessarily longer. Either way, it seems to me that to bend it down, you do not touch the glans, but rather the middle of the shaft, and you _push_ the top forward, lessening the pressure on the adhesion, rather than _pulling_ on it, so I'm not sure what you might be doing that would hurt.

The only thing that is uncomfortable pushing the penis down to aim for the toilet, is that you may be bending it and "kinking off" the urethra underneath - now _that_ might be uncomfortable.

Quote:

I wanted to leave it alone except that I don't want him to have erection issues later in life. We never notice any erections now, whereas his older brother had them very frequently. I am starting to worry that it is painful for him.
You think that he may be inhibited from having erections if it is painful? Well, that's an interesting notion. Fact is, many or most erections occur during sleep, which has two consequences; one that they occur frequently enough and for long enough to cause the skin - including an adhesion - to stretch to a comfortable degree. As is fundamental to the "restoration" thread - skin stretches with persistent tension, and adhesions are _rarely_ painful merely on erection (but _may_ be painful on sexual activity).

The other consequence is that the sleeping erections are _unlikely_ to be significantly inhibited by pain - and if anything, such a situation would be exhibited as (very) restless sleep.

Now, the reports quoted with a decreasing incidence with age _do_ suggest that these adhesions tend to resolve themselves. However they may _not_ - in which case they may - or _may not_ cause any problem. So, you simply need to see if there is _actually_ a problem if he either reports, or you observe such a problem when he has an erection. Until and unless that happens, there is _no_ need for preemption.


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## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

Well, I suppose I didnt expect such abrasive advice when I posted this question here. I have 2 sons and I know that there is something wrong with my seconds sons penis. YES what is wrong was caused by us circumcising it so I came here for advice on how to fix that.

I clearly stated that I wanted to leave it alone except for the fact that other pro-circ people have told me that it may cause painful erections later in life. If I can do anything to avoid that now, I will.

His penis is very small. He is a very chubby child and has a large fat pad there. We are hoping that as he thins out his penis will come out more. This is why I think it is painful for him. He clearly has adhesions on his penis.

If you all seem to think that his penis will detach on its own then I will research that some more and follow that path. Like I said, my husband was recircumcised and suffers no ill effects from it now- that he knows of. I was trying to be proactive in case my son would have issues with it later on in life.

Yes, I should not have circumcised him to begin with but the fact is that the damage is already done.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Hi there. I'm sorry some here haven't been as gentle as they could have been, but I am glad you are still here. MCatLvrMom2A&X posted some great info for you in an above post concerning adhesions.

I also agree with what most are saying, there is no guarantee that if he has his circ revised that the same thing won't happen again. Especially with a babe with a big fat pad, I would be leary of having the wound reopened, as it will probably just heal back the same way again. I have not heard of any fail-safe way of preventing adhesions.

Maybe if you contact Marilyn Milos of NOCIRC she could give you some advice. http://www.nocirc.org She is an RN and the founder of NOCIRC, who also has three circed sons(When you know better you do better right?) If she can't help, she would be able to direct you to someone who can, with the least invasive route possible.

Good luck to you and your son.

Take care,
Tara


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

(((Hugs))) Momma. He just has adhesions. 71% of circumcised boys experience penile adhesions, it's so common it's more of a side effect than a complication. Recircumcising your son will only risk more problems...including more scar tissue, buried penis, and so little skin that when he's an adult erections will be extremely tight/painful. I really encourage you to take as conservative an approach as possible and let things be at least until puberty when the adhesions should, with the help of puberty hormones, detach spontaneously. If you start tugging at them now or let your care provider lyse (separate/tear back) the adhesions, it's going to be painful and in many cases they'll just reoccur. The best way to limit trauma is to let things be. If they don't remedy themselves by the time he's a teen, he can have surgery if the adhesions bother him with good anesthesia and post-op meds, and he won't be trying to heal in a diaper environment. Removing more skin is a bad idea; just say NO.

Good luck,

Jen


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## Claire and Boys (Mar 27, 2007)

I Agree with everyone else - leave him alone. If he were intact, his foreskin would be attached at this point - the same hormones that cause the foreskin to separate in an intact male will do the same job with your circed son. Please don't cause him any more pain.


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## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
(((Hugs))) Momma. He just has adhesions. 71% of circumcised boys experience penile adhesions, it's so common it's more of a side effect than a complication. Recircumcising your son will only risk more problems...including more scar tissue, buried penis, and so little skin that when he's an adult erections will be extremely tight/painful. I really encourage you to take as conservative an approach as possible and let things be at least until puberty when the adhesions should, with the help of puberty hormones, detach spontaneously. If you start tugging at them now or let your care provider lyse (separate/tear back) the adhesions, it's going to be painful and in many cases they'll just reoccur. The best way to limit trauma is to let things be. If they don't remedy themselves by the time he's a teen, he can have surgery if the adhesions bother him with good anesthesia and post-op meds, and he won't be trying to heal in a diaper environment. Removing more skin is a bad idea; just say NO.

Good luck,

Jen

Thank you. What do you mean by 'buried penis'?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Buried penis happens when to much skin is removed and the whole penis is burried in the pubic mound. Sometimes this resolves as the boy grows other times as a adult the only thing that shows is the glans of the penis and is quiet embarressing to the owner of the penis as well as meaning that his erection will often be so tight that it cannot grow fully and makes for a smaller than normal penis. And can be extremely painful.
Here are some links about it. Warning pictures of the adult penis.
http://search.msn.com/images/results...enis&FORM=BIRE
It is also known as hidden penis.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

A little OT, but I saw a toddler with a buried penis at the beach last summer...it looked so horrible. I felt so sad for that little boy...I had no idea it would cause so much damage later in life. I thought they "grow out" into their normal size!

So glad I didn't circ! OY!

Good luck with your decision OP, hope you can come to a safe conclusion for your DS. I think contacting NOCIRC is a great idea, FWIW.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
Thank you. What do you mean by 'buried penis'?


Kinda like this:
http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circ_incomplete.htm

But sometimes it can get stuck in the fat pad due to adhesions and cannot be "popped out" anymore







: It is then considered "Buried" or "Trapped"

Take care,
Tara


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

They will detach on their own. With DS1 the ped kept telling us to pull it apart, DS would scream when we did this. It. was. awful. I wish I wouldn't have listened to him.

I found out with DS2's ped that they will detach on their own.


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## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

That is exactly what my son has (plus uneven reattachment).







I am hoping that his will get better as he thins out.


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## foreskin friendly (Jul 16, 2007)

Please leave him alone.
PLEASE keep coming back and raising your concerns with us if you need the support and are not finding it readily elsewhere.
Something told you to come here, your intuition is telling you it isn't right to cause your son pain by tearing apart the adhesions and applying ointment... DEFINITELY DO NOT HAVE HIM CIRCUMCISED AGAIN!!! NO!! NO!! NO!!
Follow your instincts!!!
Look outside of American trained medical professionals for the correct advice because I have had more medical "professionals" than I can count tell me to either circumcise or retract my son, when in fact that will cause more damage! American trained doctors are generally not taught function, development and purpose of the foreskin...so they probably will not know...
I would put a million on it (if I won the lottery, of course), the collective knowledge about foreskin/penis issues in this CAC sub-forum, outweighs most American trained doctors' knowledge about foreskin - tenfold...
Trust these ladies and gentlemen.
Our concerns are synergetic with yours... our interest is in your child's well-being...
there is no financial motivation behind our advice...
keep following your intuition... I wish more people did...
good luck-all my best to you and your son...
Colleen


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
That is exactly what my son has (plus uneven reattachment).







I am hoping that his will get better as he thins out.

Oh no.









I'm so sorry. Buried/trapped penis is a very sad complication.

I especially urge you not to get him re-circ'd in light of that bit of information, as re-circing will only make the buried penis situation worse.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
That is exactly what my son has (plus uneven reattachment).







I am hoping that his will get better as he thins out.

Your story is identical to mine. DS1 circ'ed, buried penis, adhesions, and Pediatrician
advised me to pull back the skin.

One thing thats different: I wasn't advised to do a recirc. THANK-GOODNESS!!!

I never pulled back the skin. I listened to my instincts. In my mind, I thought the little skin that he had left would surely stretch as long as it was left adhered. That way, as he grew, he'd restore more skin for his penis.

He is now 7yrs old and it separated on its own.

His buried penis resolved when he was a few months shy of 4 yrs old.

Its a bad idea for a child to be re-circ'ed. Two wrongs can't make a right.

It sounds to me like you have really good instincts. Continue to listen to them and love on that boy of yours!

Hope all goes well for you mama.







And for the little one.


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## Paul B. (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmomto3boys* 
Well, I suppose I didn't expect such abrasive advice when I posted this question here.

Well, I can only describe it as "unfortunate" if you see my comments as "abrasive"; from my viewpoint, I was simply being pragmatic and stating a logical argument. As someone has just posted, "Two wrongs can't make a right", and if the message is that circumcision is completely wrong in the first place, and you actually believe that, then circumcision is going to be even more completely wrong in the second place.

Quote:

I have 2 sons and I know that there is something wrong with my seconds sons penis.
And I have to say, your first son's as well. And your husband's. It's not wrong _just_ because _one_ son developed an adhesion. The inherent fault is in the concept of circumcising, not that the consequences may _sometimes_ be so blatant. That's why I am - and others are also - a little repetitious even though you already appear to have "got the message".

Quote:

I clearly stated that I wanted to leave it alone except for the fact that other pro-circ people have told me that it may cause painful erections later in life. If I can do anything to avoid that now, I will.
Which is why I went on to say that - remains to be seen. The best thing you can do now, is to accept that circumcision is a Bad Thing, and consequently having astutely identified the "pro-circ people", understand they do _not_ have your son's interests at heart ( - exactly what they _do_ have "at heart" is an entire, separate discussion - ) and keep _away_ from them, physically and mentally.

Quote:

His penis is very small. He is a very chubby child and has a large fat pad there. We are hoping that as he thins out his penis will come out more. This is why I think it is painful for him.
But that doesn't strictly make sense. If his penis is somewhat buried _now_, then that _reduces_ the strain on the adhesions, as does anything pushing his foreskin _forward_, such as when you push (or he pushes) the top of his penis down for aim.

Quote:

He clearly has adhesions on his penis.
It occurs to me as I write, that what you describe, and what people refer to as "an adhesion" that is painful, are totally different. I recall that you say he has skin adhering to his glans over _most_ of its circumference. Such a condition is very unlikely to be painful at all, since the force is spread over a large area. But I can see why this situation would incline doctors to talk (still inappropriately) in terms of "re-circumcision" rather than simple lifting or division of adhesions.

The adhesions that are likely to cause pain, are single point or narrow adhesions that form a "bridge" under which you can pass a probe.

Quite frankly, and to expand on my previous comment, I do not _know_ whether these adhesions resulting from circumcision will part (completely) by themselves in due course or not - I have had success in deliberately parting childhood adhesions in the intact state, and experienced difficulty in detaching adhesions in circumcised adults, but not sufficiently often to make dogmatic claims, so I suggest the studies to which you have been pointed are as good a guide as any.


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## APmomto3boys (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
Your story is identical to mine. DS1 circ'ed, buried penis, adhesions, and Pediatrician
advised me to pull back the skin.

One thing thats different: I wasn't advised to do a recirc. THANK-GOODNESS!!!

I never pulled back the skin. I listened to my instincts. In my mind, I thought the little skin that he had left would surely stretch as long as it was left adhered. That way, as he grew, he'd restore more skin for his penis.

He is now 7yrs old and it separated on its own.

His buried penis resolved when he was a few months shy of 4 yrs old.

Its a bad idea for a child to be re-circ'ed. Two wrongs can't make a right.

It sounds to me like you have really good instincts. Continue to listen to them and love on that boy of yours!

Hope all goes well for you mama.







And for the little one.

Thank you!! You give me hope.


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## TryingMyBest (Aug 14, 2007)

I talked to my Ped the other day about adhesions...and he also said to just leave it alone. Naturally the hormones for retraction will be released and the skin will detach...or that is what I have been told atleast. The ped didn't go into all that...he just said leave it alone and that he would wait to see.


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