# Would appreciate your feedback...(final update #36)



## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Background: I'm 21 weeks pregnant and we found out we're having a son. WWIII hit the night before the u/s to find out we were having a boy re: circ. Anyway, we decided to not discuss it until we could both cool off - it's been about two weeks now. So, I wrote this letter (and have printed off copies of certain things - you'll figure out which ones if you read this) to get the ball rolling.

I'm looking for feedback or things to add to the letter to make my point. If some things don't make much sense please let me know so I can edit. You *do* need to know that threats, threatening language, bullying language, etc won't work with my husband (not that I would use them anyway) so I'm trying to keep it factual - with the exception of the Mama Bear point.

Also, one last point, I've actually had women on MDC tell me to leave my husband for considering to inflict "abuse" on them regarding RIC. It won't happen. And I'm not interested in hearing it again. I'm looking for guidance, pleaseandthankyou!

Thanks.









***

Paul,

Since this circumcision issue is such an "elephant in the middle of the room" for us I thought it might be easier for me to explain my reasoning on paper and then you can read it without us going to our defensive sides. I really, really don't want this to cloud over the remaining 18 weeks of my pregnancy. After all, it's been an amazing feeling of carrying our son and I want the positive energy to continue.

Here are my main reasons for keeping our son intact:

*Autonomy* - Much like we didn't alter Corbin's appearance following her birth, I don't find it fair to do to any other children we might have. I truly believe that infants are born perfect. Yes, they might have crinkled noses or flat feet or any other list of body parts that don't socially appear "beautiful", but that is what makes that child that child. I simply don't believe we have a right to alter a child's body without their permission (barring medical need, of course). My body is mine. Your body is yours. Corbin's body is hers. Our son's body is his to decide alterations when he's of a legal age to do so.

*The Purpose of the Foreskin* - Please look at the article from CIRP called "Foreskin Sexual Function/Circumcision Sexual Dysfunction" to see why the foreskin is necessary. I've heard quips about it being similar to the appendix, but it's not. It's very much a needed part of the sexual anatomy. I know it's strange to think about, as parents, but this child will be under our care for only a very brief time of his entire life. He will grow up to be a man and a sexual being. It's important that he is equipped to be a good sexual partner.

*Easy to Clean* - Please look at the article "Newborns: Care of the Uncircumcised Penis" to see that caring for his intact penis during diaper changes and/or baths requires no extra care. In fact, washing his genitals with water daily should do the trick because his foreskin protects his glans from urine and feces. I do know that you felt strongly about adult smegma and I do want to validate that point. The counterpoint is that the two of us, as adults, don't always smell like roses, either, but it's nothing that a quick shower can't fix. Adult, intact penises also just need a daily cleaning.

*Intact Penises are Normal* - The World Health Organization estimates that 70% of the male population is intact. It's very normal. Now, I know you and I know that you couldn't care less about the rest of the world's penises so we can bring this back to the United States. The newest article describing circumcision rates in this country is from 1/21/2008 (see "U.S. Circumcision Rates Vary By Region") to show that, "Nationwide, about 56 percent of newborn boys - - 1.2 million infants - - were circumcised." I was there when you asked Dr. Mimlitz and he responded with "99% of the boys I deliver are circumcised." That might be true for him, but that's not the norm. Just going by the article, barely over half of boys are circumcised these days. You brought up our son being teased in school and in sports for "looking different" from his peers, but he won't be alone. Plus, this article is from nearly two years ago and it's very possible that the rates of intact boys will continue to rise making our son's intact penis the majority.

*Medical Institutions* - Not one medical institution recommends routine infant circumcision. I can provide the link to see that worldwide it is not recommended, but, again, let's just stick with American medical organizations:
USA: (AAFP) "The current (2002) statement also emphasizes lack of therapeutic benefit and likens neonatal circumcision to a "cosmetic" procedure and expresses ethical concerns about non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision"
(AMA) "The statement calls for the re-training of American physicians and improved information to parents in hopes of reducing the unacceptably high rate of non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision."
(AAP) "the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child."

*Mama Bear* - Just like any animal, I have the instinct to protect. I did/do so with Corbin in the chemicals that go into her body (vaccinations, foods, etc), how she is safely tucked into a top of the line car seat, the fibers that touch her body in her clothing, etc. It can't be disproven that I would do anything to protect her. The same is true for our son. I watch what I'm doing during pregnancy as to not harm him or cause any unnecessary fetal stress. Therefore, when the idea of circumcision comes up my natural instinct to push back because I do not like the idea of him being tied down, screaming, having his foreskin that is fused to his glans ripped back* and cut off. All the while this is done in a room with people he doesn't know and don't care about him. Just sitting here typing this I'm tearing up thinking about it&#8230;about the pain that would be inflicted upon his tiny little body. It's truly impossible for me to think about looking at his amazing body right after his birth - remember counting Corbin's fingers and toes, marveling at her adorable nose, having our breath taken away at her perfection? - and then saying "yeah, that part of his body is ugly and needs to be removed&#8230;and we're not leaving until it's done!" Circumcision is a cosmetic procedure that causes pain to infants - many of whom go into shock when it happens. It can't be undone. Once this decision is made it's there. Forever.
* Forcibly retracting a foreskin is the same as ripping the nail away from the nail bed.

There are some two things that I would like you to see before we discuss this again.
1.One is Penn and Teller's Bullshit episode on circumcision. It's free on youtube and I can direct you to it.
2.Another is a website that is fairly graphic, but explains and shows the difference between sex with an intact man and with a circumcised man. It's sort of a Cinemax-y site so I wouldn't visit at work. Sex As Nature Intended It

Finally, there's one other point that I want to add and I want to say this as gently as possible. I love you. I love your body and I love every aspect of it, including your penis. This is my piece and my thoughts of genital integrity, but it's not to hurt you or how I feel about your sexual organs.

Angela


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Looks great mama







Sticking with facts is always the best way to go and reassuring him that you love him and the way he looks is also important. I hope that you are able to get him to come around without to much trouble. If he has questions you dont have the answers for then that is what we are here for.

I would not tell someone to leave their dh over this but I would tell you and them to put their foot down and not let it happen. Grown men can get over having an intact son given time and if they cant then that is their problem to live with.


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Beautiful letter. Rational but heartfelt. I don't see how he could not get it - though he may have to work through some feelings over time to get there.

The one thing that stuck out - might want to revise you're wording in the Sexual FUnction Section. "He will grow up to be a man and a sexual being. It's important that he is equipped to be a good sexual partner." The last sentence may be taken by DH as saying that he is not a "good sexual partner." I'm too tired to think of an alternative right now. But you get the idea.

Good luck! Gillian


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
The one thing that stuck out - might want to revise you're wording in the Sexual FUnction Section. "He will grow up to be a man and a sexual being. It's important that he is equipped to be a good sexual partner." The last sentence may be taken by DH as saying that he is not a "good sexual partner." I'm too tired to think of an alternative right now. But you get the idea.

Yeah, I was stuck on how to word that part...and the part about his penis being fine with me. Ideas welcome.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Honestly, I think it's too much info, without really addressing the problem.

If I sent that to most circumcised men I know, they wouldn't bother to actually read more than half of it. The parts they did read would tend to make them somewhat defensive. This article explains how many men feel http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

I would not send him a letter. I would *ask* him "why he wants his son circ'd?" Then I would specifically address his fears and feelings, in a calm caring and loving manner.

No to people are exactly alike, and no one approach is right for everyone, so you may have found the right approach for your DH, with the letter. However, most people are more open to new information, when they feel they are being heard.

If you already suspect what your DH will say when you ask for his opinion, we can help you with how to approach it.


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## Seie (Jun 9, 2005)

How about making him defend - in writing - why it is necessary to have done? He is the one wanting to make an alteration - he better make a good case!

Whether he reads it or not - well if he wants a say he should be comitted to hear you out - be it in writing or in a discussion.

The part about your son being a sexual being - I agree that the part about the good sexual partner could be taken the wrong way.
How about making a case of the possible complications from a circ - including having to have it redone, adhesions, meatal stenosis, too tight, possible sexual problems (indicating that it is a POSSIBLE complication from circ - that would raise the problem of possibly affecting his sexuality without directly touching the subject of your DHs sexuality as he could well just be the lucky one with no complications, but that it wont necessarily be like that for your son.

Good luck.


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## Noelle C. (Sep 3, 2009)

What are his reasons for wanting this child circ'd? His specific reasons and concerns need to be addressed.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

I think the letter is really great. And I like the idea of getting around the sexuality aspect by listing possible complications of circ and their repercussions on a normal sex life later on.

And before giving him the letter, why not ask him to write *you* one as well, and you exchange them? That way he gets to feel heard as well.

I hope you can come to a peaceful resolution. My DH wanted our son circed but I was adamant that it not happen. Plus, we are in Europe-- if we had truly wanted to circ it would have been a huge deal to find someone to it. I'm sorry to hear that your doctor circ's 99% of the males he delivers. It would be nice to have someone medical in your corner.








s to you.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

sending you a PM....


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

I do think the letter format is a fine way to communicate with partners about hot topics. My husband has on occasion written me long emails explaining how he feels when we've gotten into arguments on some of our hot-button topics. It gives you a way to get your thoughts out on paper, and gives the other person time to consider an answer, without getting whipped into a fight in which ideas are poorly articulated, responses are poorly thought out, and emotions get the best of you.

While the general public circumcised man might not want to read a long letter about why circumcision is a bad thing, I would think any loving husband would be willing to read the well-expressed and -intended thoughts of his wife. I really think a letter like this - and giving him the space to absorb it - could shift his thought processes.

I like the idea of inviting him to write more about his reasons, and how he feels. Especially having read yours, he may already see things differently, and then having to write them out is a good exercise in self-awareness.

I wouldn't feel like a letter like this has to have every argument against circ in it. Just the ones that seem the most important to you - as you've already done.

Again, beautiful job!

Gillian


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Thank you for your feedback, everyone. It's really helpful to reorganize my thoughts since this will be a conversation after the absorption period.

I hear what was said about writing a letter. I really did. At this point, this is a very hot topic in our house and I need to say these things 1. without bursting into tears, 2. without yelling in defensiveness and 3. opening the lines of communication so my husband can do the same.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Noelle C.* 
What are his reasons for wanting this child circ'd? His specific reasons and concerns need to be addressed.

A couple of reasons:
1. being different from peers and the teasing that will ensue (which I addressed)
2. smegma and the uncomfort of smelling (which I addressed)
3. being made inferior by sexual partners when he's the "only" circed penis they will see (I tried to address this one on the commonality of intact infants, but it's open for discussion)
4. a coworker of his that is intact (unhappily was teased by women and men alike) and circed his sons
and, finally, one that he hasn't specifically addressed, but I *know* it's in there:
5. I make 99% of parenting decisions by default and I think he wants some control. I know that won't be a popular answer in these parts, but IMO, it's valid for him

Re: sexuality and Paul's discomfort. I'm really having a hard time with this one and hear what you all are saying. I don't want to discredit his sexuality, but also don't want to down play that this has a larger role. I guess I see it like discussing taste when discussing the tongue, yk?

Sorry, don't know how to multiquote:
*How about making him defend - in writing - why it is necessary to have done? He is the one wanting to make an alteration - he better make a good case!*
I didn't write this to be a term paper so I don't want him to feel he has to do the same. This is my (hopeful) jumping off point of communication so we can discuss this as rational adults. God, marriage is hard enough without having completely opposing views on something!

*How about making a case of the possible complications from a circ - including having to have it redone, adhesions, meatal stenosis, too tight, possible sexual problems (indicating that it is a POSSIBLE complication from circ - that would raise the problem of possibly affecting his sexuality without directly touching the subject of your DHs sexuality as he could well just be the lucky one with no complications, but that it wont necessarily be like that for your son.*
Can you give me some links of complications and whatnot? We know two little boys that had to be recirced and Paul mentioned that being a concern to the OB (the one that mentioned his 99% circ rate).

Thanks again, ladies...for your comments and your PMs. I really appreciate your opinions.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Great letter! Your son is so lucky to have such a wonderful caring strong mom!








If it's not two late, I'd change a couple of things. First, by writing "making him a good sexual partner (or something along this line) you might made your dh feel that he is not.

Second, I personally think that *Circumcision Decision* (this new 20 min long video) would be more beneficial than, the Sex as Nature Intended site. I highly recommend watching it. Here is direct link to the video


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

I would leave the sexuality part and maybe even look for some stats on intact men being more willing to use protection (I haven't found those in a long time, but that was a big motivator for my ex to agree to leave our boys intact).

I also write letters to my husband on hot topic issues. It is a great way to say what I need to say, without sounding like the nagging, hormonal bitch.

I would also maybe see if he will watch some videos. That was enough for my DH. When he saw what really happened, it freaked him out so much, he totally agreed.

Now as for the deicison making, that was an issue for us and my DH did feel like I made all the decisions for our kids. I finally told him I WANTED his imput and would really consider anything he had to say, as long as it didn't involve harming our child or changing who they were born to be (intact and without vaccines). I did let him come up with the final name. I gave that one to him, although it was the name that I wanted. HA.


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## Monkeygrrl (Oct 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Can you give me some links of complications and whatnot? We know two little boys that had to be recirced and Paul mentioned that being a concern to the OB (the one that mentioned his 99% circ rate).

Here is a list of complications

When I was discussing this with my partner - I talked about how many issues he has with own penis, and why those issues are there. Because of that, he didn't want to circ. (He circed his first boy, who is 13. He didn't know anyone who wasn't and didn't know enough to even ask about it. And no, his exw didn't either. *sigh*) I made sure to let him know that I have no issues with his penis, as is evidenced with how much time I spend with it.







But that the child should have the option to change parts of their body if they want to when they are older - and it shouldn't be forced on them. He agreed with me, and our boy is intact. I would have fought tooth and nail for it though, just glad I didn't have to do that.

Your partner may not have many issues with his own circ, so that argument might not work for you.

peace...
Margaret


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Does your dh know that circ started in North America as a cure for masturbation? This fact was an eye opener for my dh.

*A Short History of Circumcision in the Physicians' Own Words*
http://www.noharmm.org/docswords.htm


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

You might want to discuss the function of smegma and show the comparison between female and male. Smegma= cervical mucus, I believe(could be wrong, if someone would deny or verify that would help)
found this article actually
http://www.foreskin.org/smegma.htm


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## Monkeygrrl (Oct 9, 2005)

Here is a site that talks about the history of circ. It's interesting, and might be helpful.

peace...
Margaret


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
You might want to discuss the function of smegma and show the comparison between female and male. Smegma= cervical mucus, I believe(could be wrong, if someone would deny or verify that would help)
found this article actually
http://www.foreskin.org/smegma.htm

Smegma is greek for "soap" and is, to my knowledge the combination of shed skin cells, oil, etc. Women produce it too, and we not only have plenty of nooks and crannies (inner and outer labia, clitoral hood), but an internal, receptive sex organ that is constantly discharging a variety of fluids...cervical mucous, arousal fluids, blood, etc.


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
Smegma is greek for "soap" and is, to my knowledge the combination of shed skin cells, oil, etc. Women produce it too, and we not only have plenty of nooks and crannies (inner and outer labia, clitoral hood), but an internal, receptive sex organ that is constantly discharging a variety of fluids...cervical mucous, arousal fluids, blood, etc.

See!














: If he's not bothered by your smegma, maybe he should rethink the whole idea of smegma to begin with.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Writing letters is a great way to open talks without the yelling and tears and worrying about saying things you will regret later







For some it isnt the way to go but for a lot of others it works really well.

I know many who have written emails and letters on this subject when talking was not working. Like in the OP's case.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Can you give me some links of complications and whatnot? We know two little boys that had to be recirced and Paul mentioned that being a concern to the OB (the one that mentioned his 99% circ rate).

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/risks/


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

I think it was beautifully written and will be well received. While some people might not want to read a lengthy letter, I think a spouse will and that he'll know she put much thought into it.
Good job!


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## dancindoula (Jun 20, 2005)

I've said this before, but I hope other posters will bear with me one more time. I wouldn't and don't tolerate the argument about teasing. Ask yourself and him the question: "what sort of message about his worth do we want to teach our son?" Do you want to teach him that if people tease you then you have to go and change yourself to be more pleasing to those people? What happens when other people tease you about the change? Who do you believe? Why do "they" get to define what is worthwhile in him?

I was teased relentlessly as a child. Just to name a handful, I got teased for being "too tall", but my parents didn't work to stunt my growth. I got teased for being "too smart" (but they didn't lobotomize me) AND I got teased for being "stupid" (figure that one out). People WILL tease him about things. They will. I'm sorry, but it's just how it is. What tools are YOU TWO going to give him to deal with the mockery of others? Are you going to do him the disservice of saying "they're right, honey, that <insert offensive trait/body part> really is bad - let's change it"? Or are you going to empower him with the confidence to refuse to take other's criticism to heart and to enjoy the traits/talents/characteristics/skills he has been given without requiring the permission of others to do so?

I'm certain you and your husband both would answer those questions in the same loving way, but sometimes we all just need to take a step back and get a fresh perspective of the REAL issue with some of these arguments.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

I understand what you're saying, Dancindoula, but I'm one to validate all feelings and thoughts so it still goes in the letter. It's a valid concern of my husbands.

FWIW, I altered it a bit to have a "Surgery on a Newborn" session to highlight some concerns that may arise from it and put the sexual issues under that. It's still being said, but, hopefully, won't be the biggest aspect.

My old man is just coming off a cold so I'm waiting until he feels well to hand everything over. I'm sure I'll be back for more assistance.

Thanks for your help, everyone.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Wow, really great letter!!!

My dp was ADAMENTLY for circ; I was against it. We went around and around. Had a girl the first time. Whew.

Luckily, before our second and third children (which are girls too - go figure) he actually SAW in real life a circ performed. We were at a hospital to see our friends' newborn boy. I was with my friend in her room when they took the baby away. She made her dp go with him - so my dp went with him for support. They stood in the hall outside the room. At one point, a nurse opened the door to go out and my dp and hers saw the circ being performed. My dp came back to the room, white as a ghost; I honestly thought he might be having a heart attack - he was shaking and sweating. He told me we had to leave. I hugged my friend and we left. Once we were out of earshot of their room, he told me what happened and said "we are NEVER doing that to any sons!"

So even the most adament pro-circ dads can come around. You are doing a great job of being reasonable, calm, addressing his concerns, etc.

I also really like the book 40 Reasons Not to Circumcise. It is a quick, easy read (paperback) that NOCIRC used to sell. Not sure if they still do.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
4. a coworker of his that is intact (unhappily was teased by women and men alike) and circed his sons

I haven't read past this, but has he asked his coworker why, if he doesn't like being intact, he circ'd his sons, instead of himself? I didn't always like having big boobs...but I wouldn't force a boob job on my _daughter_ over that. I'd get one myself, if it were that big an issue.

This line of thinking drives me up a wall.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

^^^ He *did* ask his co-worker (he didn't know this guy was intact before he was wandering around his office in a "my wife is nuts" way) why he circed his sons and not himself and said guy said to avoid the torment that he endured. Now that said guy is married and older (he's probably mid-40s) he no longer feels that pressure to be the same.


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
^^^ He *did* ask his co-worker (he didn't know this guy was intact before he was wandering around his office in a "my wife is nuts" way) why he circed his sons and not himself and said guy said to avoid the torment that he endured. Now that said guy is married and older (he's probably mid-40s) he no longer feels that pressure to be the same.

That is really too bad considering he probably set his son up for the same kind of torment, being different, since so many are no long circ. their sons.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks for your feedback, everybody. I gave my husband the letter about a month ago and he finally had a chance to read it the other day (he's been traveling for work a lot and it's been stress city around here). He responded with "you are making some great points. Let me mull it over for a bit and we can talk soon" (meaning when all the traveling ends).

He even read up the "Stuff Your Mom Never Told You" transcript on circumcision this morning at work and told me about his concern with the HIV/STD link. I explained that it's not really valid, the numbers are off, etc and emailed him the Daily Nation link about circing not working in Kenya.

We're actually having real, non-confrontational conversations about this. It's great! Because the fighting bit wasn't working.

Anyway, thanks for helping me work out my thoughts for the letter.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Thanks for your feedback, everybody. I gave my husband the letter about a month ago and he finally had a chance to read it the other day (he's been traveling for work a lot and it's been stress city around here). He responded with "you are making some great points. Let me mull it over for a bit and we can talk soon" (meaning when all the traveling ends).

He even read up the "Stuff Your Mom Never Told You" transcript on circumcision this morning at work and told me about his concern with the HIV/STD link. I explained that it's not really valid, the numbers are off, etc and emailed him the Daily Nation link about circing not working in Kenya.

We're actually having real, non-confrontational conversations about this. It's great! Because the fighting bit wasn't working.

Anyway, thanks for helping me work out my thoughts for the letter.









You might also mention that the rates of HIV in the US are far far lower than in Africa and that circumcision would provide little practical benefit under those conditions. You might want to read this bbc article which gives a British perspective: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7960798.stm

And an Australian perspective: http://www.afao.org.au/library_docs/...rcumcision.pdf

"An Australian-born man is estimated to have a 0.02% (0.0002) risk of HIV acquisition if he does not inject drugs or have sex with men.11 This very low risk means that the population health benefit of an intervention like generalised circumcision programs would be negligible."


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Read this. do NOT show it to your dh, though.

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Sounds like things are going better! Keep up the great work mama!


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

So wait...he circ'd his sons because he didn't want them to get made fun of, yet he didn't do it to himself at any point? Why didn't he do it to himself? I know you can't actually ask that, but really, I bet he was scared of getting it done, afraid of the pain or something. Which means, he was scared of it hurting him, so he did it to his newborns who didn't even have the benefit of anesthesia or good pain meds? Nice.

Btw, that is NOT the norm. My ex brother in laws are not circ'd and they grew up when most boys were still being cut. They have never been made fun of, the most they've gotten is curiosity about it. With fewer and fewer boys being circ'd now, its even more unlikely.

Also, I'd have him think about this: would he really went his son to be with a woman who was so superficial, she would say things about how his penis looks? I know I wouldn't. I'd say at least 95% of the female population doesn't care either. Those who do are the odd ones out, especially today. I mean again, half of boys arn't circ'd in the US, girls are going to be much more used to seeing an intact boy than they were even 20 years ago.

I don't know where you live but the numbers also vary a lot by region. You may be able to use that to your advantage if you're in certain areas, in others you probably don't want to mention it. For instance, I live in the Seattle area and only about 30% of boys are circ'd here. In my sons class, only a couple appear to be and when its been randomly brought up in moms groups, most of the boys arent cut either.


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## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

I love this site b/c it is a government site and people tend to take it more seriously than a "propaganda" site. It is kind of equivalent to the AAP but for Canada:

http://www.cps.ca/caringforkids/preg...rcumcision.htm

Quote:

Of every 1,000 boys who are circumcised:

*

20 to 30 will have a surgical complication, such as too much bleeding or infection in the area.
*

2 to 3 will have a more serious complication that needs more treatment. Examples include having too much skin removed or more serious bleeding.
*

2 will be admitted to hospital for a urinary tract infection (UTI) before they are one year old.
* About 10 babies may need to have the circumcision done again because of a poor result.

In rare cases, pain relief methods and medicines can cause side effects and complications. You should talk to your baby's doctor about the possible risks.

Quote:

Pain relief:

* Newborn babies do feel pain. Without pain relief, circumcision is painful. Acetaminophen (such as Tempra or Tylenol) or EMLA cream, which numbs the skin, won't be enough.


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## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

If he is worried about being made fun of by his peers for being intact, then he would probably be even more concerned about an extremely small penis caused by circumcision:

Inconspicuous Penis
Related concepts:
Absent penis, Buried penis, Concealed penis, Hidden penis, Micropenis, Penile agenesis, Trapped penis, Webbed penis

Who gets it?
Boys can be born with a webbed penis, or the condition *can result from an over-exuberant circumcision where adhesions form between the scrotal skin and the penile skin.* Webbed penis usually causes no problems (unless a routine circumcision is later performed).

Some children are born with a concealed penis (also known as buried penis or hidden penis), and *for some it happens after circumcision*. It is common in infants and toddlers, and occasionally seen in older children and obese adolescents.

*Children are not born with trapped penis; circumcision causes it.* Routine circumcision of a webbed penis or circumcision when there is significant scrotal swelling (from a hydrocele or hernia) can lead to trapped penis.

http://www.drgreene.com/21_1125.html


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

So, the final update...

I called him at work this morning about something completely different and asked what he was doing. He replied "finishing my research for our circumcision conversation tonight." I just said "ok" and left it at that since I had no idea what his "research" could be.

He walked in tonight and came right up to me to say "I've decided that our son will have an uncircumcised penis and that's all I'll say about that." To which I said "huh? what caused the switch?" I got a "I've done my research and I don't really want to discuss it." I started with something along the lines of "it's not YOUR decision to make", but then I realized it was a lose-lose thing of me just not appreciating his weird I-rule-the-home tone (which is so far from being true) and dropped it.

During dinner I said something about being interested in what caused the change of heart and he said that he will tell me someday, but right now he's too "emotionally exhausted" over the topic. So, I'm dropping it and moving on.

Yay! I'm glad it's over and we shook on it.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
So, the final update...

I called him at work this morning about something completely different and asked what he was doing. He replied "finishing my research for our circumcision conversation tonight." I just said "ok" and left it at that since I had no idea what his "research" could be.

He walked in tonight and came right up to me to say "I've decided that our son will have an uncircumcised penis and that's all I'll say about that." To which I said "huh? what caused the switch?" I got a "I've done my research and I don't really want to discuss it." I started with something along the lines of "it's not YOUR decision to make", but then I realized it was a lose-lose thing of me just not appreciating his weird I-rule-the-home tone (which is so far from being true) and dropped it.

During dinner I said something about being interested in what caused the change of heart and he said that he will tell me someday, but right now he's too "emotionally exhausted" over the topic. So, I'm dropping it and moving on.

Yay! I'm glad it's over and we shook on it.









Sounds like he thinking about what he lost. Well whatever it is give him time. And when the time is right, if that is what it is, make sure he knows that it's not about what happened to him.


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## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

Glad to hear the issue was settled


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## Goodmom2008 (Dec 14, 2008)

I would also put out pamphlets on the intact penis and how normal it is. I've heard the bathroom is a good place.

As for when he said that he decided not to have the foreskin removed, it sounds like he heard the circumcision video.

My ex and I didn't fight about it. Once he read in the newspaper that it wasn't medically necessary, he knew that he would lose any argument with me. I don't think he really came around until he heard that baby crying in the circumcision video a few years after our son was born.

Give your dh time. He will eventually get it. And be happy that it wasn't done to his son.


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

Wow, what a change. I'm very glad he took the initiative and researched it on his own! Good for him!

I also agree, it sounds like he is upset over something-he might be grieving what he lost, he might be upset over the pain he was caused, heck, he might just be upset that he was always told it was needed and now he knows it isn't. I agree though, just leave him be and allow him to tell you when he is ready.

I honestly wouldn't push anything else with him now. Once he opens up to you, you can bring up stuff, possibly. Or once the baby is getting close to being here, just make sure he read up on how to take care of the intact penis. That's about all I'd do personally.


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## graceomalley (Dec 8, 2006)

That's great news. He'll explain it to eventually - you sound really patient (giving him lots of time) and I'm sure he appreciates that although you've been firm, you've given him his space too.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Yeah, I think he didn't want to talk about it for a couple of reasons:
1. thinking about what happened to him without thought about his feelings
2. didn't want to hear/say that I was right
3. just being *done* with it.

It's fine. I gave him information on caring for an intact penis in my initial letter (yes, it was delivered with attachments!). So we will just move on and I'll patiently wait for him to tell me.

Thanks for your support, all. It was really nice to be able to put my thoughts together before taking them to my husband.


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## BaMo (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm glad that it worked out!


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## BlessedMommy2006 (Dec 7, 2007)

Awesome update!







It really doesn't matter WHY he wants to leave little man intact--that main thing is that he is on board! Congrats!


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

I am glad that your son will remain with his foreskin.

Now that the decision against circumcision has been made for your baby boy, it's probably the end of thinking about infant circumcision for you. It's most likely just the beginning for your husband.

If he's truly researched it, he now knows that he himself has lost a very highly sensitive part of his body. He knows the function of the foreskin and that he lacks that function. He knows that he's never experienced sex as it was meant to be and he never will. He knows that something was taken from him without his consent at his most vulnerable time - a helpless infant. He knows that his parents didn't protect him and instead, invited this upon him (unless it was done without their consent or done under coercion.) He knows that the medical community can be seriously wrong and he may become distrustful of them. (Ever wonder why men are so hesitant to go to the doctor? I wonder if it is because of the negative association from the primal wound inflicted upon their sex organ as infants that they avoid doctors?)

I can only imagine what a heavy load this is to process for a circumcised man that learns the truth.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

I wanted to say that I am deeply sorry for your husband to have to learn this information and have to process it all. Circumcision is a wound upon a baby that ripples out to effect so many people. I get personally saddened by this issue every time I hear of it.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

What a great final update!!!!!! You handled this very calmly, rationally and respectfully - I am super impressed as this is hard to do with such an emotionally charged issue AND with pregnancy hormones to boot! Nicely done.


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## 2sw33t (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm so glad everything's working out for you guys. I'm just starting my fight with my DH. I personally would love to do the letter-thing (my preferred method of communication), but DH hates reading anything even somewhat lengthy - especially if there's emotional baggage attached to the topic. He just gets upset and confused and won't focus on what's being explained.

I'm really not sure how to approach this. He's the type to dig in his heels and rarely responds to logic in a positive way. I'm hoping if I bring it up weekly, he'll eventually start analyzing how he feels or do some research.

Always,
Jill


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## Mom2KC (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm so so so happy you and your DH are now on the same page! I think your letter was amazing and I'm glad DH took the time to read and research. Yeah for intact boys!!!


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