# 3 year old has never slept through the night



## Shannie77 (Jan 16, 2007)

My 3 year old DD has been a terrible sleeper from the get go. She has slept through the night once since she was born. We went through 6 months of her having night terrors. Months when she was a baby where she just would not go back to sleep for hours in the middle of the night. I had her nightweaned but that went out the window 3 months ago when DD2 was born. DD2 wakes up once at night. I can put her down drowsy. It is very odd to be up 4-6 times a night with my 3 year old, while my 3 month old sleeps soundly.

We have always had some reason or explanation. For example we found out she has food sensitivites but removing them didn't help her sleep. Her nap and bedtime routines are good. She doesn't resist going to sleep.

Right now I wake up and nurse her. She is now in her own room... We just moved. She totally accepts that. It just makes the wakings so much harder because I have to go to her.

I know I should re-nightwean her but I feel like she has been through a lot and I will know when the time is right.

Has anyone else had a horrible sleeper. When did it get better? Did you do anything or did they outgrow it.

I am finally at my wits end after three years. I just feel so much anger about it for lots of reasons and have no one to talk to about it.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Mama, that is really bad sleep. I am not surprised that you're dealing with anger, I'm surprised that you aren't too angry to write a coherent sentence about it. And 4-6 times a night is enough that I can't imagine you're getting and REM sleep at all.

MOST kids sleep through the night before this stage. Most kids who don't yet sleep through the night at age three sleep for longer stretches than it sounds like your child does.

I think there's no point in trying any kind of weaning before you feel ready, but at three, I wonder if your daughter can be encouraged to be more self-sufficient when she wakes at night. Can you leave her a sippy cup of water and a small snack for if she wakes up hungry? Can she get herself to the potty if she needs to?


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

My 6 yo just started sleeping through in his bed all night every night, like in the past month....BUT....his previous waking was usually once (sometimes twice, rarely more than that), and was just to go to the bathroom and/or come sneak into bed with us. We didn't have to do any parenting, he just got up and did what he needed to and went back to sleep. DD is 4 and is also staying in her own room, and she does similarly, goes to the bathroom or climbs into bed with us if she wants - I don't know if she's ever slept completely through the night either, but she doesn't require a lot of parenting at this point when she wakes, and she usually just waked the one time. I agree with MeepyCat that I would perhaps focus not on her not waking, but instead on her getting herself back to sleep. At 3, she should be able to do that even if she needs to be near you, like climbing into your bed wihtout waking you (what our kids do - we never know who we're going to wake up with on any given morning







) - My kids usually have a bottleof water near their bed, and sometimes even a small snack, because I got tired of 4am "I'm hungry!" s. At 3, IMO she should be able to be placated with a non-nursing drink/snack that she can eat on her own and then cuddle with you to fall back asleep.

First, I would teach her to come to you instead of you having to go to her. Then, I would teach her to potty/drink/snack on her own then cuddle with you and zonk out (or, if you'd prefer, to have her just stay in her room and do it on her own instead of waking you).

I'm so sorry abotu the nightterrors, that must have been awful for you all. I'm glad she's out of them and hope it stays that way.

Good luck!

FWIW, we had to teach the kids to not wake us; that they were welcome to come in the bed but they didn't need to wake us up. Or that they were welcome to take a drink and eat their snack, but didn't need to wake us....or that they needed to come to us instead of calling out.....or if they were awake and bored, they could look at a book or play quietly with a toy until they were sleepy again but stay in their room...so it wasn't like they knew to do that on their own, we worked on it with them before bedtime we'd remind them and go through what they'd do in various situations, briefly.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I encourage you to get her checked out by a doctor to rule out anything medical. I'll tell you our story...

DS has always been a pretty bad sleeper. He also dealt with night terrors for awhile but, more than that, he never slept through the night. Ever. He was always up at least a few times a night. For years I blamed it on myself (for allowing him to nurse at night). But then he weaned (at 3 years and 4 months). So he wasn't waking up to nurse, but he still wasn't sleeping through the night. This went on for YEARS. Finally at age 6 he still wasn't sleeping through the night. Most nights he was up 2-3 times per night. The doctor finally took us seriously and didn't blow it off as a parenting issue (by this time it was really affecting his behavior during the day- and he was in Kindergarten at the time- because he wasn't getting good enough sleep).

Long story short, he had enlarged tonsils and adenoids that caused him to have sleep apnea- when he was laying down his tonsils were so swollen they would slip back into his throat and choke him, causing him to wake up. Many times per night









In March of this year, at age 6 years and 5 months, he had his tonsils and adenoids removed. And I cannot even begin to tell you what a difference this has made!!! He totally sleeps through the night EVERY NIGHT. Since he had the surgery done (after he recovered) he's woken up once at night, but he wasn't feeling good that night. That's it! OMG how it feels to get sleep again! And his behavior.... he did a complete 180 degree turn. He had the surgery done on the Friday before Spring Break so he had all the next week to recover. He went to school the week after that and ALL his teachers/aides were shocked. I had the librarian come up to me and ask "what happened over spring break... he is acting so good!". Before the surgery he was in the special ed room (he has autism) or the principals office (which is where he goes when the special ed teacher is unavailable) at least 3-4 days per week because of his uncontrollable behavior. He was miserable. After the surgery? He became a model student! Teachers didn't believe me when I told them about the surgery. It was completely amazing.

I'm not telling you this to scare you. I'm telling you this because I wish I had considered surgery long before I did. I don't know if I would have done the surgery earlier (my ds has a lot of feeding issues so we knew that would be a problem- and it was.... he was readmitted to the hospital for 3 days after the surgery because he refused to even open his mouth, let alone drink anything). But if someone would have told me the difference it would make.... I might have considered the surgery long before we did it.


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## crowcaw (Jan 16, 2009)

I had one of those and it lasted until 4.5. She still doesn't sleep through the night but she's only up once or twice. Unfortunately neither she or her twin are willing to go potty by themselves at night yet, but at least the waking every 2 hours and 45 minutes seems to be over. In our case ped could find no medical reason and said she was probably a light sleeper and woke up out of REM sleep each time and it was a matter of maturity. Stiill at almost 5 between her and her sister I'm up 3 times a night, but it is much better.


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

My dd is 5.5 and only recently has been consistently sleeping through the night. She has never been a good sleeper, often waking for hours during the night. At times it has been really, really hard.

I tried nightweaning her several times (it worked like a charm with her older sister!) but it only ended up in her being awake and mad. So finally I went back to nursing her at night, which eventually lessened on its own.

She is an intensely attached little person, and I think this is just part of who she is. She still often stirs in the night, but if she can reach over and feel me nearby, she goes right back to sleep.

I will say that while I was glad to transition her to sleeping in her own bed, the smartest thing I ever did was bring her back into bed with me. Given her personality, it improved her sleep immediately. I still don't think she'd be sleeping through the night if it weren't right next to me. It was hard to do this, as it felt like a step backwards, but it has really helped. The other thing we accidentally discovered was that a later bedtime (10-10:30) dramatically decreased her nightwaking. Go figure.

Kids are different. My older daughter slept through the night from around 2 and moved herself to her own room and bed at about 2.5. (Of course, she was a terror to get to sleep and hardly napped--ever.) Anyway, just trust your own instincts about how to move forward. You know your child best. Everyone has advice about sleep but IME very little applies to all children, especially children who are on a far end of the spectrum.

good luck and hang in there!


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shannie77* 
We have always had some reason or explanation. For example we found out she has food sensitivites but removing them didn't help her sleep. Her nap and bedtime routines are good. She doesn't resist going to sleep.

I would say that you probably haven't removed all of her food triggers if her sleep is still bad. Are you keeping a food journal?


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky* 
M
She is an intensely attached little person, and I think this is just part of who she is. She still often stirs in the night, but if she can reach over and feel me nearby, she goes right back to sleep.

I will say that while I was glad to transition her to sleeping in her own bed, the smartest thing I ever did was bring her back into bed with me. Given her personality, it improved her sleep immediately. I still don't think she'd be sleeping through the night if it weren't right next to me. It was hard to do this, as it felt like a step backwards, but it has really helped. The other thing we accidentally discovered was that a later bedtime (10-10:30) dramatically decreased her nightwaking. Go figure.

good luck and hang in there!

This is my oldest as well. She wakes up constantly still at age 7 unless some one is sleeping with her and if we are, then just just rolls over and goes back to sleep. Anyway, I totally feel your pain and when DS was a baby I was so angry that my newborn was sleeping better then my then 6 year. The thing with my DD1 is that she is an intense child, she just needs so much more then my other children do. When I give up trying to mold her into what I think she should be doing, like even having her own bed at this age, and go with what she really needs, then life becomes so much more bearable. None of my 3 children sleep through the night, I just keep saying that some day.... I do agree with ruling out medical causes of night waking, looking into more allergies (that was a big trigger for DD1 for years as well), and teaching her how to be near you without waking you up too much.


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## momoftworedheads (Mar 6, 2003)

My second two boys did not sleep through the night until they were over 4. Do you want to co-sleep with her again or is it too difficult? I would just sleep with her and the newbie in the bed and then wake up and nurse them and go back to sleep.
Has she ever had a sleep study? My boys had them and they did tell us a bit about why they did not sleep.

Good luck to you!


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## mrskingred (Aug 3, 2006)

My DS did not sleep through the night until March of this year (he was 4 in July). We moved to yet another house in Feb so there were some settling in issues, but I think that he was too cold in our previous house despite the additional blankets merino wool vests, extra warm pjs - it was an old water mill and very difficult to heat.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky* 
She is an intensely attached little person, and I think this is just part of who she is. She still often stirs in the night, but if she can reach over and feel me nearby, she goes right back to sleep.

That's my ds... He still woke up a lot at night when he was 3. But since we co-slept, he went back to sleep faster and I got more rest. If he became all the way awake, we'd be up for hours. If he could just roll over and nurse, he'd usually go right back to sleep. Eventually, he didn't always nurse back to sleep and would just reach out to feel me.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

DD was a terrible sleeper too. She was waking up almost as often shortly before turning 3. She weaned on her third birthday and within a few weeks was sleeping WAY better. It has been many months since she's woken me up in the night now. I had made half-hearted nightweaning attempts prior to her weaning completely and that didn't seem to make a difference.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

In addition to sleep apnea, you might want to have her checked out for reflux. My terrible sleeper has reflux, and I feel terrible because it's only been since she's been able to describe the symptoms (between ages 5 and 6) that I realized she had it. The poor kid has been in pain a long time (she woke every 2 hours to nurse until 3 1/2, then we night weaned her, but she still came into our bed).

Have you tried something like the Feingold diet?

ETA: I would consider a sleep study. It sounds strongly like she has some sort of sleep apnea.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

swollen tonsils are a sign of food allergy, as is reflux sleeplessness. my main wheat allergy reaction is reflux. many nutritional deficiencies contribute to insomnia: magnesium, b6, and D3 are needed to make melatonin. the natural calm folks even make magnesium supplements for babies. the adage is magnesium to fall asleep and calcium to stay asleep. most of us get enough calcium, but don't absorb it because we don't have enough d3. none of us get enough magnesium. other supps that can help are gaba (iirc gamma amnio-butryic acid) a calming neurotransmitter, and tryptophan or 5-htp, which is necessary for serotonin production. homeopathics can help, also getting rid of food additives and colorings, and going outside in the early light every day to re-set the circadian clock.


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## chrstene (Dec 11, 2007)

Gosh, I know this post is a little old...but I just had to respond. My DD just turned 4. She is a TERRIBLE sleeper ! It truly is the only stressful part of our parenting her. I also have a DS who is almost 2...he is GREAT sleeper. Thank God, because I couldn't deal with 2 like her !

I definitely don't have the answers because I am in the same boat, but wanted to commiserate with you....and hopefully follow the thread for some magic answer or hope !

She coslept, nursed, etc...until about 2. She transitioned to her own room/bed around then. We slept with her for the most part. She has always been a terrible sleeper from the beginning and ALWAYS slept better right smack up next to me, even after she weaned. It is VERY clear she would like to sleep with us...but we at LEAST want her to start the night in her bed so we can have like an HOUR of alone time ! She will "usually" do that, after a protest. If she hasn't napped, she may even fall asleep after the first story...BUT then after 2 hrs or so she is up. Comes in our room, I walk her back and try to sit beside the bed again. EVEN if she does fall back to sleep, it's only for minutes this time and she is back. This goes on and on. By now, I'm tired and want sleep so I drag her in the bed with us or this could go on all night !

It is very frustrating having a younger one sleeping through the night and she is awful. I think she is afraid to be in there alone, which I understand. When I think of that, I want to bring her back in our room...but I just want a little time - not much !


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crowcaw* 
I had one of those and it lasted until 4.5. She still doesn't sleep through the night but she's only up once or twice. Unfortunately neither she or her twin are willing to go potty by themselves at night yet, but at least the waking every 2 hours and 45 minutes seems to be over. In our case ped could find no medical reason and said she was probably a light sleeper and woke up out of REM sleep each time and it was a matter of maturity. Stiill at almost 5 between her and her sister I'm up 3 times a night, but it is much better.

This was my experience, too...first with my eldest child and then with my middle. Each of them was between the ages of 5-5.5 years old when they began to sleep through the night. My daughter was the worst, definitely still nursing 3-4 times a night around the age of three. It is terrible, but because my babies were spread out quite a bit (the first two are 3 yrs 8 months apart and the next two are 5 years apart) it didn't have quite the same effect on my energy level as it would the OP. It remains to be seen how soon my little one (17 mos) decides to stop the all-night nursing. No signs of slowing down yet...


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD1 started sleeping through the night at age 3, that lasted 2 years, and then she hasn't STTN in the last two years. DD2 will turn 4 next month, never STTN yet and she nightweaned herself 2 years ago. Some kids just don't sleep well, my youngest is 1 and often sleeps better then my older kids.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

DS is 8 and still up 2-5 times per night. There's nothing "wrong" that anyone has found, and apparently nothing we can really do about it other than wait it out. I will tell you that putting an air mattress on the floor next to our bed definitely helped US get better sleep, and he does well with it also.


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## jecombs (Mar 6, 2008)

OP, I'm right there with ya! My DD is 3 and has STTN maybe 5x in her whole life. She also has night terrors. I have a 4 m.o. infant.

A couple of things have helped us... DD always starts the night in her own bed, so (like pp mentioned) DH and I can have a little bit of alone time. When she wakes the first time, she walks herself into our room and climbs into our bed. She sleeps between DH and I; the baby sleeps between me and a bedrail. Getting DD to the point where she would walk herself into our, as opposed to me going to her, was a God-send. I still go to DD on occassion, when I think she has woken up from a night terror because she's usually pretty disoriented when that happens. DD sleeps much better in the bed with us than she does on her own... she only wakes 1-2x per night in our bed and I know it would be 6+ if she were alone.

Recently, I have decided to have DD evaluated for some sensory processing issues. I think she easily becomes over-stimulated and has a really, really hard time calming herself down (she never has been a self-soother). DD has tantrums almost nightly at bedtime and when she wakes-up she will often be screaming "I'm not tiiiiiiired!". I hope we will be able to start some OT and learn some techniques to help her learn to settle herself down, even in the middle of the night. After reading all the responses, I'm also considering having a sleep study done having her tonsils and adenoids evaluated. DD did have to have tubes put in her ears at 10 mo. old, but they opted not to remove her adenoids at that time.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

No advice, just







and commiseration.

My dd will be three in December - she has never, ever, never slept more than two to three hours at a go. She requires a lot of work to get to sleep, a lot of effort to help her stay asleep - plus she has SPD and ADHD, so our days are tough too.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Have you read Sleepless in America? My daughter was a really really bad sleeper and like you, we always blamed it on one thing or another - reflux, teething, allergies, milestones, etc, etc...but things just never got better. Sleepless in America helped us so much. I am pretty sure I've outlined some of the basics on this forum in the past, if you'd do a search for my posts. My daughter sleeps GREAT now. I didn't really use a lot of the nighttime tips, we just worked out how to better arrange our days. Good luck.


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## Jend1002 (Feb 2, 2010)

I thought I'd chime in on the sleep study advice too! My son is now 2 and has always been a terrible sleeper - no less than 4 wake ups per night really. I had to beg, plead, freak out to get a sleep study done but when I did, I was surprised to learn that my son has 2 different things going on - his brain comes out of sleep an average of 18(!) times an hour (at least during the study) AND he has mild apnea. We were referred to an ENT who suggested a conservative approach since his apnea is mild. We have been using a nose spray for 3 months now and nearly immediately after starting it, DS started waking maybe 2 times per night on average, sometimes only 1 and occasionally not at all!!

So if you are able, a sleep study could be a good option for you.


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