# boycott gas for a day!!!



## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Dont Buy gas on September 3rd!!!!
Boycotting the gas company will decrease the price dramatically. Ive checked into it and if over half the US didnt buy gas for 1 day, the gas companys would be close to bankrupcy!!! So Lets show them how to lower gas prices. So repost this to all your friends. We have to get the word out. Its NATIONAL DONT BUY GAS DAY!!!
So repost it!!!


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## mayasmama (Nov 22, 2001)

gas war

gas out

Check these out first


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

Yep, just as PP posted...these boycotts have been going around for years and they won't accomplish anything but hurt the local owners.









People need to make permanent changes, not one day changes.


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## Moon Faerie (Aug 2, 2004)

A one day boycott won't really do anything.

I'm not sure it would even hurt local gas stations all that much. Gas is not where gas stations make their money. I used to be a 2nd assistant manager at a gas station, and we made $.01 - $.03 per gallon.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I think it would only make a difference if everyone didn't USE any gas for a day. My daily commute is 45 miles--the only way I could not buy gas on Sep 3rd is by making sure I filled up on Sept 1st or 2nd. I don't think it would really affect anything.

But I'm working on getting my hours changed so I can perhaps commute with another person. THAT will make a big difference.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

With the way as prices are, I'm boycotting most of the week, LOL. We just can not afford it, so we're staying home most of the time or very close to home. It stinks though, because there is this huge farmers market that I love, but it's an hour away and would eat up to much gas. I try to shop at the ones close to home as much as possible, but they just don't carry much. And with dh having having a 30 minute commute, he gets most of the gas money.

I wish a boycott day would work, but unfortunately it won't. I think maybe if everybody cut back as much a the possibly can, that might send a message? From what I've noticed though, most people (not here, the ones I talk to irl) don't really care.


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## mamatojade (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
I think it would only make a difference if everyone didn't USE any gas for a day. .









:


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

I agree in that is sounds like a good idea in theroy; but in the long run, using less gas is better.


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## mshollyk (Sep 24, 2002)

i remember lots of carpooling going on in the late 70's. are people doing that sort of thing now? they don't seem to be around here.


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## luvmy3boys (Sep 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alkenny*
Yep, just as PP posted...these boycotts have been going around for years and they won't accomplish anything but hurt the local owners.









People need to make permanent changes, not one day changes.









:


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

argh. I hope gas prices go up up up up up!

GET OUT OF YOUR CAR

TAKE TRANSIT RIDE A BIKE WALK


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## featheredarms (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:

GET OUT OF YOUR CAR

Quote:

TAKE TRANSIT RIDE A BIKE WALK








:

Here's some useful and persuasive links:
google car free Dir
Bike commuting
and of course!

It's just a matter of DOING it.

good luck!

(of course, $3 isn't really all that expensive, considering European prices-- but then again, their cities/transit systems/society are build on a much more human (non-auto) scale...)


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Well, I drive a Prius. Not perfect, but better.

Check out biodiesel... I think my next car will be this. Plus DH and I are going to convert our soon-to-be new house to heating with biodiesel by next year!

http://www.metaefficient.com/metaeff...ves/biodiesel/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

Cool stuff!


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum*
argh. I hope gas prices go up up up up up!

GET OUT OF YOUR CAR

TAKE TRANSIT RIDE A BIKE WALK











Gas SHOULD be expensive...I mean, hello--we are burning up the center of the earth!!!!!







:


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## grypx831 (May 22, 2005)

Not buying gas for one day won't do anyhting. People need to stop using so much in general.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum*
argh. I hope gas prices go up up up up up!

GET OUT OF YOUR CAR

TAKE TRANSIT RIDE A BIKE WALK


And what do you suggest for those who live out in the country?? No transit, cant ride a bike as it too far.

They live out in the country in order to raise their own food, and have a healthy lifesyle. They do have to go into town for stuff and work. Cant live closer to town as the prices for acreage are through the roof.

Transit and bikes only work for those who live in town or close to town. There are those who live out in the country, what do you suggest??


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

in an attempt to save gas. It stunk. I spent 2 hours getting someplace that would have normally taken me 30 minutes to drive to. Four hours total on the bus with a 4y and a toddler, including time spent waiting on a busy street in 105 degree weather and no shade at one of the transfer points. It was crowded and very hot, and I was totally disillusioned with the whole public transporation thing. It might be better in other cities but our bus system really stinks. I even had to drive to the bus stop b/c it doesn't run that far south where we live.

I was thinking about taking the bus to the zoo when the weather is nice, but it requires 3 transfers. Forget it. I can drive there in 20 minutes.

My dh takes the bus every day. He drives 5 miles to his express bus stop and then takes it in. He leaves for work very early and gets home late. He spends about 3 hours communting every day and he only works 23 miles away. The only think I'm grateful for is that he can read and relax a bit on the bus, and he is saving miles on the car. But it stinks to have him coming home so late b/c of the bus.









I think the only thing that's going to stop the big gas prices is to stop buying huge cars. I drive a CRV, I admit, but it has good mileage in its class. I would never think of buying one of those huge monster trucks that are so popular these days.

Believe me, if public transporation was better in my area, I would use it ever day. But at the moment it's nearly impossible to get somewhere. 4 hours on the bus or waiting for buses yesterday. ugh! I feel sorry for people in my city who can't afford cars and have to use it every day. Something HAS to change.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
And what do you suggest for those who live out in the country?? No transit, cant ride a bike as it too far.

They live out in the country in order to raise their own food, and have a healthy lifesyle. They do have to go into town for stuff and work. Cant live closer to town as the prices for acreage are through the roof.

Transit and bikes only work for those who live in town or close to town. There are those who live out in the country, what do you suggest??


If you live in the country you live in the country. Most people do not actually need to drive to get get to the shops. If you need to drive, then drive when you need to drive. I would be willing to bet however, you use your car alot more than you NEED to. You could probably get buy with organizing with a few of your neighbours to drive into town only a handful of times between you each month to get whatever suppiles etc you think you need.

And for the PP, it is a sad statement that your city has such a pathetic transit system, but saying it sucks and hopping in your car won't imporve it. What iniatives are the people in your city taking to improve things?

Ever heard of true cost economics? Where the price of things reflects their impact on society, people's health and safety and the environment. The price of gas would have built into it, money to go towards healthcare costs, roadwork, environmental policing and initiaves etc. to undo all the damge these fuels do to the world. Then you would really be balking at the cost of gas.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

The real problem is that most of the US can't get public transportation to and from work, so we are stuck using gas and our cars to get to and from work.

We live some 70 miles from a large metropolitian area and it doesn't even have adequate public transportation for those who live in it. My dh travels 55 miles each way in the best car we've got at 36 miles to the gallon. We can't afford to buy an new car right now and we've looked, no new cars the same size get as good on gas milage (unless we go hybrid and that isn't all that much better b/c he is doing hwy and mountain pass commuting). The price of the hybrid isn't justifiable for the gas savings at this point with us getting 36-38 with the car we own outright.

Could he car pool? No, no one else from his job (or other offices in the building) lives out here and he goes in super early to leave early to avoid the bulk of the traffic. His office bldg is sort of by itself as well.

If we lived in Boston or New York this wouldn't be a problem, I know for a fact having lived in Boston the T has express trains from the far outer suburbs into the major T stations. I took the T almost anywhere I needed to go, the closest station was less than a mile from my grandfather's house where I lived (we weren't that far out from Boston either).

Here in VA where we live the closest Metro station is further than my dh's job. And the cost is rediculous in comparison to Boston. Last time my dh took the Metro in from Vienna to DC it was like $6 round trip plus parking. The T was 85 cents and no parking fee b/c I could walk there.

Oh, I should mention we can't afford to live closer, if we were moving to the area now, we couldn't afford the house we live in now. I don't know what we would do -- I'd be working and putting the children in daycare, but as I've mentioned before on these boards my take home would be around $120 per month -- so what's the point in my working...

The problem is the way the US cities and towns set themselves up in the beginning. There just isn't an easy way to get adequately effective public transportation in place at a decent cost in a lot of areas. Thus leaving the American worker little choice but to drive a car and car pool when they can.

I think anyone who has access to public transportation at a cost less than driving themselves should be using it as a protest to high prices of fuel. And those who don't have public transportation options should be looking for a car pool situation that would work.

My dh met a woman who drives to the cummutor lot near her home every day of the work week and hitches a ride without fail and gets a ride back. Brave woman in this day and age. My dh passes a commutor lot on his way in, maybe I'll suggest he start driving in to look for someone who needs a ride. Assuming those individuals help out with gas $$, it should help us manage better. Or they can swap which car they take each week or day.

I communted with someone once the $$ I shelled out to help with the gas was more than I would have consumed driving my car myself. So, it isn't always a win win situation. My 4 cyclinder car consumes much less than the 8 we were in -- almost the same size car







That experience still makes me







: The point of sharing a ride was to save on gas and $$ and it cost me more...

Okay, getting off the soap box now...


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

y'all should check out biodiesel like a PP said or grease cars. biodiesel can fuel any diesel engine. it's derived from vegetable oil rather than petroleum and the overall emissions are less. i get 45 mpg in my biodiesel VW golf tdi. every time i fill up with biodiesel is a time i don't buy into the oil economy. it works if you live in the country or the city. lots of muncipalities are running biodiesel in buses and town vehicles. you can buy it commercially in a a growing number of towns and cities or you can make it yourself. check out www.biodieselnow.com , www.biodiesel.org , www.biofuels.coop for starters.

grease is even better since you don't have to buy it. most restaurants will give it to you for free 'cause otherwise they have to pay to have it hauled away. you do need to modify your vehicle with a grease tank, but then you're good to go and you almost never need to pay for fuel again. check out www.greasecar.com , www.greasel.com , www.frybrid.com , http://www.biodieselamerica.org/ .

we boycott gas almost every day of the year. if it's important to you, you can too. trade your gas guzzler in and pick up an old (or new) diesel VW or Mercedes. gas electric hyrbrids (prius, honda) are better than conventional gas powered vehicles, but they still buy into the gas economy. does that sound totally preachy? i hope not. i was interested in a hybrid for a long time, but dh learned about biodiesel and pointed out how the hybrids still use some gas and biodiesel (or better yet grease) is an option that uses much less.

anyway, i hope that this message doesn't come off like i'm a know-it-all 'cause i really don't. i've never made biodiesel. we buy it from a coop, but i do dig bypassing all the gas stations. if y'all want to quit making those stops check it out. there have been several threads here recently on grease cars, biodiesel, peak oil, etc. it's worth researching.

hth

ETA: dh takes the bus to work. we live close to his work, too, and he sometimes walks. the buses in our town are free, though, when he does take them.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Not buying gas for a day doesn't really hurt the big companies because everyone who would've bought gas day 1 will just go ahead and buy it day 2 instead. These companies aren't so fragile that a 1-day dip in profits will sink them or even hurt them much.

I saw a different take on the theme the other day, which is to boycott two of the biggest companies, such as Exxon and Mobil, and give your business to smaller companies instead. Plan to do this for at least three months. The theory here being that dropping profits will force the two big companies to lower their prices to woo back consumers, and smaller companies will follow suit to keep up.

Personally, I'm coming around to the idea that if we (as a society) can't be forward-thinking enough to really get on board with alternate energy sources and reducing consumption, maybe we should just go ahead and use up our fuel resources so that we're _forced_ to it.


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## Earth Angel (Dec 13, 2004)

: (woops we posted at the same time earthmama369...my yeah that was to beanma)

We saved up and looked and looked and looked and finally found our deal on the diesel vehicle we needed (we haul wood, Dh is a carpenter and also works for a contractor so, we needed a truck). Dh, his boss, many of his coworkers are running on biodiesel and feeling really great about it....they are also saving $ with the increased fuel efficiency and the lower price of biodiesel ($2.50/gal). Now we are looking to replace my car with a diesel ...this one is harder though cause we need 4x4 in the winter and spring to get into our property.....so we have to keep my car and can't do a trade with it.....but it is so important to us we'll make it work.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Wow...your car really runs on just grease?


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

wednesday, not sure if you're asking me or earth angel. our vehicles run on biodiesel a fuel made from grease, but dh plans to greasel his toyota fj40 landcruiser and then run it on waste veggie oil. here are a couple of links to recent threads -- http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=331039 , http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=321735 , http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=329259 , http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=328957 . it's really worth researching if you're in the market for a new vehicle or are concerned about fuel consumption, global warming, etc.

i think sohj knows a lot about this stuff, too...


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

awesome. Do you have a comprehensive, user friendly, not frightening sort of link I can forward to all my car owning relatives and friends?


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

there's a bunch in my post on the first page. you can check the link in my sig, too.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

thanks, I sent to everyone. I am lucky I live downtown in a major city and can walk everywhere I need to go, or use our awesome transit system. I pay for it in rent though!

I know most people won't even be willing to cut down their driving time. Biodiesal seems like a great compromise.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

I know this isn't a very nice thing to say, but I'm kinda tired of being nice where this topic is concerned.

I hope gas gets to five bucks a gallon.

I hope everyone who bought an SUV or a Hummer breaks down and cries.

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm gonna be inundated with people saying, "But I NEED an SUV!!! My specific, individual, peculiar situation which YOU CAN'T JUDGE 'cause YOU DON'T KNOW ME absolutely mandate that I buy a car which gets 18 miles to the gallon!"

Yeah, maybe. If your last name is "Brady," maybe I'll believe you.


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Actaully I hope it doesn't Dh wouldn't be able to afford to get to work.







He can't carpool and there is no public transportation from here to wear he works (almost 40 minutes away.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

The issue threre is the way in which communties have been created recently. If people who lived in city X worked in city X and people who lived in city Y could work in city Y it wouldn't be such an issue. But cities don't creat jobs when they build houses. developers don't build offices and shops they build houses b/c they profit most from building houses. So the suburbs and outlying areas have been created in such a fashion that they consist of housing and walmarts and everyone has to drive about daily in a traffic jam trying to make a living.

Any how, I gave my dad the biodeisal link from beanma's siggy.....he was not so impressed...this is what he said....

*For some real, Canadian, information and perspective - check http://www.greenfuels.org/biodiesel/index.htm

From your original link ... "Biodiesel is nearly carbon-neutral, meaning it contributes almost zero emissions to global warming! " Quite how anyone can burn a carbon-based fuel and not produce carbon dioxide is beyond me entirely (physics and chemistry are sciences not theoretical arts). Now maybe the argument is that the plants that grew and got turned into bio-fuel used carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and photosynthesis so there's a NET almost zero emission .. but gasoline-from-oil could make exactly the same claim as being carbon-neutral, just that the time lag in conversion is longer. A statement like "almost zero emissions" is the sort of junk science that may appeal to 'greenies' but it has exactly the opposite effect on science-literate folk.

Anyway - I'm all in favour of anything (within reason) that saves your planet







*

Better than my brother's response....

*Per your email about drilling in the North, I'm only looking at cars powered entirely by owl-cumbustion*

That's a joke obviously. hahaha.


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## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

We've been using about half as much gas as we used to. We simply cut back on unecessary driving, shop more locally, and plan shopping trips carefully. I also walk into town as much as possible until the weather gets cold.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

kristen,

what an annoying response. if your dad likes numbers (not really my thing) he might like to look at some of these links. yes, i think the www.biodieselnow.com quote "Biodiesel is nearly carbon-neutral, meaning it contributes almost zero emissions to global warming!" is referring to greenhouse gas emissions, specifically Co2 compared to petro diesel, and the renewability and energy balance of biodiesel. i looked at his link and i've got no complaints. like i said, numbers aren't MY thing, but there are plenty of people in the biodiesel movement who do dig them. here are some numbers links i came up with:

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/ (lotsa info)
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f.../emissions.pdf
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/r...21_gen-332.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/biodsl.htm (Biodiesel Emissions Analysis Program)
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analy...l/biodsldb.pdf

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37136.pdf (Clean Cities April 2005 Fact Sheet Biodiesel Blends)
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/31463.pdf (Bioassay Analyses of Particulate Matter From a Diesel Bus Engine Using Various Biodiesel Feedstock Fuels - Final Report - Report 3 in a series of 6 )
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/33793.pdf (Impact of Biodiesel Fuels on Air Quality and Human Health - Summary Report - September 16, 1999-January 31, 2003 )
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/33797.pdf (Impact of Biodiesel Fuels on Air Quality and Human Health: Task 4 Report - Impacts of Biodiesel Fuel Use on PM)
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/33794.pdf(Impact of Biodiesel Fuels on Air Quality and Human Health: Task 1 Report - Incorporate Biodiesel Data into Vehicle Emissions Databases for Modeling)

http://www.canadacleanfuels.com/biodiesel.html (Biodiesel Background Sheet)

http://www.biofuels.coop/education/energy_balance.shtml (small scale co-op's energy balance report. how much energy is yielded compared to how much energy is used to produce the fuel. this is a grassroots site, so dad might prefer the other links.)
http://www.biofuels.coop/archive/harvard_biodiesel.pdf

i'm sure i can find more if needed. there's plenty of science to back it all up.

oop, one more link for you aboust petro diesel emissions on school busses -- http://www.nrdc.org/air/transportation/qbus.asp .


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
I hope gas gets to five bucks a gallon.

I hope everyone who bought an SUV or a Hummer breaks down and cries.

Well, I don't have an SUV, and I'm not gonna cry...but would $5/gallon gas cost force me to change my commuting habits? Honestly...no. I spend about $100/month on gas to commute to work now, so if gas cost twice as much, I'd be spending $200/month. I would still need to go to work. I would still be very unlikely to find a similar position in the town we live in, and because of our choices to live near family and to live central to DH's work, we wouldn't change where we live either. I would just suck it up. Honestly, what choice do I have?

I think $5/gallon gas would devastate our economy, though, if it happened rapidly. The cost of every consumer good would rise so quickly that people would be screaming about a lot more than the cost of filling their gas tanks.


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## julielenore (Apr 29, 2004)

Not sure if a boycott would make a differnce, people would just buy gas the nest day. Now if people did not _drive_ for a day, that might actually make a difference.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
Honestly...no. I spend about $100/month on gas to commute to work now, so if gas cost twice as much, I'd be spending $200/month. I would still need to go to work. ... I would just suck it up. Honestly, what choice do I have?


Very good points... And it really makes me sick that the economic factors that the 'economist' use to tell us how our economy is doing do not take into affect the price of gas, the price of groceries, etc the things that really matter. I would really like to do a Master's degree and do my thesis on a NEW economic theory -- one that makes sense to me... (I have a BBA w/ Finance&Acct so a Masters in Economics wouldn't be far off -- plus I want to teach economics at the college level... but that is another story).

So, here's the run down. If I still have to go to work, I HAVE no choice but to pay the price of gas. That $100 extra for gas has to come from some where, well it comes from other areas of the budget that I can get by without. I won't eat out, I won't buy new clothes for the kids or myself, I won't buy the new CD I wanted to, I might turn my heat down this winter as low as I can tolerate it to conserve $$ there. The retailer are going to feel it. And mark my words this year's 3rd and 4th quarter earnings will be down (I think 2nd quarter earnings were down slightly, but watch the 4th quarter with Christmas sales; unless gas goes back down in price).

I won't drive to the store as often and I won't be spending as much. Personally, we will be cutting back on food items we've been buying and do without. My son will not be buying lunch or breakfast as school this year as he did on occassion last year -- unless I get pregnant and have morning sickness.

Anyway, a boycott on gas for a day won't help one little bit -- fact. It might make some people feel better. The bottom line is the consumption of gas will be the same for that week b/c people still have to go to work, drop kids off at sitters and go to the grocery store to get food, etc, so whether that gas is purchased Mon, instead of Wed makes no difference.

Now if everyone took public transportation for a day, that might actually save gas, but probably wouldn't save any money b/c time is money in the end.

Lobby Washington DC is the only way IMO. Like the Truckers blocking up the Capitol a while back b/c of the price of diesel.

BTW -- my dh is now finally looking at a diesel. And is interested in the biodiesel


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Good points. I have noticed that our spending in other areas has gone down quite a bit (not that we have a lot to spend as it is). I can definately see the retailers hurting. If it comes down between a new shirt, toy, night out, etc and having gas money, you know what most people will pick.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

That is exactly what I mean, no one drive for a day or purchase gas - it is not that hard really. I received the e-mail about avoiding major gas companies years ago and have done this, but obviously not many have followed this.

Many many days I will not drive but like many other people, if I want to shop for food or any item at all, I can't put my baby on a bike and ride it through major traffic infested roads and highways it would scare me to death and people do often get hit by cars around here!! Not to mention I couldn't actually get any decent amount of groceries.

I have cut back on driving very significantly, mainly b/c I don't work anymore, my bfriend works out of the house, but not for long, got to pay the bills somehow and that is not working. Really I think it is very insensitive for people to actually say they want gas prices to raise so high, it would absolutely devestate my house, we can barely pay our regular bills, this is a survival issue for us and many others, I don't have a SUV nor would I purchase one, I would love to switch to the biodeisel as well but I don't have a deisel car and can't just trade mine in for one.

Maybe it is hard to imagine that there are people out there that don't have extra money or these insensitive people just don't care about these types of people???

For products like gas, people need gas like they need food b/c people need gas to get to work to make money to eat, so raising the price will only change the amount people use gas to a certain point.

Speaking of food and gas, and all products that exist, if gas prices did go up to $5 per gallon, then everything that we purchase will go up as well to pay for the production costs etc.
"I wish milk cost $5 a gallon" that'll teach those SUV drivers!!!!


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
I hope gas gets to five bucks a gallon.









I can see why a lot of people think this is a good argument, but really it is way too myopic.

If gas hits $5 a gallon, your groceries will be double in cost and so will your electricity as both are powered in some way or another by fossil fuels. I also hope you can afford to heat your home. My DH will be out of a job (pilot) and so will many others (truckers, delivery people, bus drivers, ad infinitum.) School taxes will go up as will ALL municipal taxes to cover increased costs to operate government establishments. Shipping packages via ANY method will be a whole lot more expensive. Letters, people and cargo all travel by aircraft, trucks and trains (all run on diesel or gas.) I hope you don't want to go anywhere that you might want to take an aircraft, besides being much more expensive, some airlines will go out of business b/c they sold tickets while fuel was still $3. The inflation that would occur is downright scary.









This has SERIOUS consequences beyond someone driving a hungry SUV around. They probably won't be crying (b/c they have some money to spare) but I assure you that I will.









Just my .02, but even this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
I hope everyone who bought an SUV or a Hummer breaks down and cries.
Yeah, yeah, I know I'm gonna be inundated with people saying, "But I NEED an SUV!!!

Not from me, I hear that argument all the time, and most of the time it is total


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

As for some people the answer is credit cards yielding more debt.







This is the sad part of it all... Credit has it's place, but when it mask inflation (which it does due to the way the economic factors are figured)...

Honestly, if we as a family don't make more (no pay raise to go alone w inflation b/c according to economist there is none) and the price of everything goes up, we scrap pennies for food, shelter, minimal utilities, and gas for getting to our jobs or we go into debt to survive.

Allen Greenspan spoke recently about the realestate 'bubble'. Did anyone else hear that? The interest only loans and short-term mortgages with balloon pmts at the end are going to have a major impact on families, banks and the economy. He stated the high cost of realestate in some areas could not be sustained. After a trip to FL in mid-June, I realized that realestate cost on the extreme rise is not an isolated event in just certain areas of the country -- it's everywhere and it's a major problem.

Anyway... so it goes and there isn't a thing I personally can do about it.


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## Earth Angel (Dec 13, 2004)

Quote:

I hope gas gets to five bucks a gallon.


although i understand why you are saying this....i think it is horribly ignorant. Gas prices effect WAY more than the individual drivers who purchase cars that you don't like.....it effects EVERYONE!!!!!

A much more proactive approach would be to invest your time and $ in alternative fuels and/or support those that are already doing this. Find ways that YOU can utilize alternative fules yourself.....go solar....use biodiesel....heat your home with wood....etc. The best way to support change is to show by example......isn't that what we try to do with our kids???

It is a waste of time to try and tell others what type of vehicle to buy....it really is an individual choice, whether you understand or agree with the reasoning behind it or not.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Earth Angel*
although i understand why you are saying this....i think it is horribly ignorant. Gas prices effect WAY more than the individual drivers who purchase cars that you don't like.....it effects EVERYONE!!!!!


Like us rural mamas


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum*
.....he was not so impressed...this is what he said....

Well, you can tell him that the atmosphere on earth during the geologic period when that fossil fuel was created was very, very different. We probably couldn't have lived then, not without some changes to our respiratory systems and blood oxygen levels.

So, being carbon neutral (ok, NET carbon neutral, it means the same thing from where I sit) in _this_ geologic period's atmosphere should be good enough.

Just food for thought.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
Transit and bikes only work for those who live in town or close to town. There are those who live out in the country, what do you suggest??

Do what me and my family used to do when we lived on a RR (rural route, ours only had mail delivery 3 days a week) back when people who lived in the country really lived off the land...

go into town once a month.

Otherwise, we only saw neighbors close by.

I hear people claiming that they can't do that because it is lonely. Well, yes, it is. Settlers working their claims on the prairie often went mad from the openness and solitude. Lots of people don't take that into account when they get romantic ideas about living "closer to the earth".

Otherwise, I suggest what some Amish I know do: Horses.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
Wow...your car really runs on just grease?

Except for:
crankcase oil
anti-freeze
automatic transmission fluid (if it isn't a standard)
power steering fluid
brake line fluid
90 W oil in the differential housing.

(And all the other lubricants one needs on machinery...like anti-seize goop on the lug nuts when one changes a tire.)

But, by far, the largest volume is the fuel the vehicle runs on. It is a wonderful start.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Earth Angel*
It is a waste of time to try and tell others what type of vehicle to buy....it really is an individual choice, whether you understand or agree with the reasoning behind it or not.

I disagree. If the-collective-we can make a decision to legislate something like seat belt laws based on a cost to society through the increase in risk to life and limb from _not_ belting up, then we should be able to control consumption.

Consumption collectivly costs us probably much much more than not buckling up. There are increases in health care costs due to air pollution (respiratory disease, cancer, and skin problems, to start). And there are increases in costs to a municipality or other governing body due to other kinds of pollution: Sewage treatment is very very expensive and requires much land space. The pollutants that end up in our sewage stream require a lot of our tax dollars. And then there is the cost to a community for landfills and solid waste transportation.

Nope, I definately think we have a right to comment on others' consumption habits. And even control them.

There even is legal precedent.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I agree sohj.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

sohj







i was hoping if i name-dropped you'd stop by.


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## willowsmama (Jan 11, 2003)

I don't post in this section too often.

Thank you for all those links! I learned quite a bit. My dh drives for workand has a company vehicle, his boss freaked over dh's gas bill(over 600.00) last month. I wonder if his company would consider something like this for the fleet.









Heck, I wonder if I can convince dh to trade in 1 of our vehicles for a diesel so we could try biodiesel.

Does anyone know what models are available as a diesel? I need to fit 2 carseats and a 11 yo in the back. Is there such a thing as a diesel minivan?


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*
Nope, I definately think we have a right to comment on others' consumption habits. And even control them.

hear hear!

We reside on the earth as a collective and must share the air and water and land with one another. Do others really have the right to pollute and destroy the earth? Do people truely think that their personal freedom and desire should take higher priority when making decisions than the effect that those decisions have on the earth, their communities and their children?

The earth is not mine to devour, I have borrowed it from my children and must one day return it to them.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I would love to only need to go to town once a month...

Unfortunately, when you have a special needs child, that's really not realistic. I really don't think I should have to justify to anyone why I need to go into town more than once a month or be made to feel like scum of the earth for it.

I would never leave my house again if it meant I could give my baby back the half of her brain that's dead. And I don't think I deserve to be "punished" with high gas prices, either. Trust me, I've been punished enough.

I know my situation is (hopefully) unique, but people need to realize that it's just not that easy for some of us, and stop making inflammatory blanket statements.


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## Earth Angel (Dec 13, 2004)

Quote:

I disagree. If the-collective-we can make a decision to legislate something like seat belt laws based on a cost to society through the increase in risk to life and limb from not belting up, then we should be able to control consumption.
I guess this is where we differ. I do not want government to have even more of a role in my life....especially the current administrations "government".

Instead, I would like to see legislation that regulates what cars auto makers are allowed to actually make. Get to the root of the problem. Legislation that promotes renewable energy....again getting to the root of the problem.

We shouldn't be wasting our energy beating up individuals for the choices that they make, we should be giving them the tools to make better choices.

Quote:

I know my situation is (hopefully) unique, but people need to realize that it's just not that easy for some of us, and stop making inflammatory blanket statements.
I also think Cherry Bomb makes and EXCELLENT point (and hugs to you mamma)....you can not judge a book by its cover, you will never know why some people make the decisions that they make....unless of course you are them.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Speaking of cars..
Did you know that the technology is there for making fuel efficent engines? Honda made a car that got 70miles to the gallon years ago. Geometro 3 cyclinder got 60. I think I mentioned this somewhere before, maybe here...

There really is a conspiracy between car manufactures, oil companies, and the government to keep car manufactures from manufacturing the effient cars they have the ability and know-how to do...

It isn't fair that we can't have access to The Smart for example out of Germany, which for a small car has excellent crash test ratings.

Big American Business, won't all Big American car manufactures to make and sell little American cars b/c then Big Business won't see Big Profits!!!







:


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eden/averymum*
hear hear!
Do people truely think that their personal freedom and desire should take higher priority when making decisions than the effect that those decisions have on the earth, their communities and their children?
.

Yes. Yes, they do.


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## eden/averymum (Jun 13, 2005)

We have smart cars here. You don't have them in the states?


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## reilly's momma (Oct 3, 2002)

You mamas are throwing out some great links & lots of info, but I'd like to emphasize the previously-made suggestion that will help right now, not down the road when we can all convert to alternative fuels & auto companies are actually making (in large quantity) the kind of eco-friendly vehicles we all would love to have but maybe can't afford right now.

Carpooling, and I mean carpooling on a mass scale. Obviously, some of us can make some concessions & drive less, but some of us cannot, so let's make the most of our driving. Post a carpool thread in your tribe area here, post on any local boards, like freecycle, cheapcycle, barter groups, etc. Start a local carpooling yahoo group. Have to commute a distance? Find someone (or many someones) who's going in the same direction & share the cost of the drive as well as cut down on the number of cars on the road.

Need to go grocery shopping? Plan it with others & either have one person pick up groceries for a bunch of folks or drive together. Same with any other shopping trips, medical appointments, etc.

If you have viable public transportation, you're likely already taking advantage of it. If, like me, your public transit sucks, then find alternatives (carpooling, biking when possible, etc) in the short term & do whatever you can to encourage better public transportaion in the long-term.

As for a boycott of gas, as has been stated, it doesn't work unless either gas consumption drops (which it would with mass carpooling) or a large portion of the population focuses on one company. The example I can give that worked was that of Shell in Europe in the 90's, but I honestly cannot see that working in the US. What I do is select the least of the evils. I never go to Shell, or Exon/Mobil. I generally opt for Sunoco (only oil company to sign on to the CERES Principals) or BP or (lately) Citgo because of curent Venezuelan politics. If you opt to purchase from a mom & pop station, they are still buying their gas from the big companies, but you don't know which companies. Of course, there are local chains too, but you have to weigh the track record of the local chains in your area to determine who you would prefer to support or avoid. locally, I avoid Marathon because of their actions in southern Ohio. You might want to check this link for gas company ratings:
http://www.betterworldhandbook.com/gasoline.html
The ratings are from 2001, but I think most of the info is still fairly accurate.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

boycott gas forever. find alternative transportation.


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## Aquaduct (Nov 27, 2003)

Hi there from New Zealand. The prices at the pump are going up here, and people are starting to complain.

I think the anwser in the short term is to use the cars only for essential things. I know in NZ that about 30% of all car trips are for distances less than 2 kilometres. Obviously people can cut down a whole lot on consumption, by riding bicycles, walking etc. We've been pretty spoilt, and have gotten lazy because of cheap oil. The reality is that there are lots of ways we can all conserve. Yes, even if you live in the country.

For example, I live in the countryside, and have a long drive. So I am going into town less, driving more slowly (speeds over 85 kmph burn up more fuel), and I'm making sure my car is getting tuned up.

Whinging about the price hike, and not looking into the reality of Peak Oil Production (check out www.oilcrash.com) is pretty negative and unconstructive. The environmentalists have been telling us for years that we need to look hard at renewable energy sources and conservation....not new and fancy ways of consuming more and more without any consideration of the planet and future generations. Looks to me like they can turn around and say: I told you so.

Jason


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## Fishygirlsmom (Aug 26, 2005)

God, I just love idealists.

Like many have said before, boycotting for one day will not improve anything and only make it tough on local owners, who are often taking cuts as it is.

I'm lucky that we have a fantastic public transit, with a bus stop on nearly every corner and a Metro station accessible from nearly anywhere, BUT, there are places in the south that do not have ANY public transportation. What then?

I have a friend who lives in such a town. No public transport and she lives 20 minutes from work, then goes to school after work. Her childcare closes at 5:30 pm, her classes end at 5 pm. She would never make it there in time. Buddy up with neighbors? What if you don't know anyone, or your neighbors don't have cars?


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## Aquaduct (Nov 27, 2003)

Yeah, well obviously not everyone is going to be able to cut down on using cars. (But a lot will). That is because of poor planning by governments, and choices made by the general populace in choosing political parties that don't support renewable energy and public transport measures.

The chickens are coming home to roost, and that's a fact. I think my ideas are realistic as opposed to idealistic. The real answer is conservation, shifting away from an economic structure that is predicated on more and more consumption of fossil fuels.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

A thread like this on MDC....the world is full of surprises!


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## Aquaduct (Nov 27, 2003)

One of my hobbies is hugging trees!

Heh heh...

But seriously, I would recommend doing a double take on this climax culture we all live in, in the West. It is doomed to an ignoble end. Check out edwardgoldsmith.com


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquaduct*

The chickens are coming home to roost, and that's a fact. I think my ideas are realistic as opposed to idealistic. The real answer is conservation, shifting away from an economic structure that is predicated on more and more consumption of fossil fuels.


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