# Swine flu



## neetling (Jan 24, 2006)

the recent outbreaks are FREAKING me out. Please either help this OCD mama calm down or better prepare.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Lurking on this thread.

There's rumours of a case here in an 8 year old boy, he's in the ICU. The family just came home from mexico.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Me too... I just came on here to look for threads, actually. No advice, I'm worried too. When the news uses the words "possible pandemic" I worry...


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

An eighth U.S. case was reported Friday. All of the eight U.S. patients have recovered, Besser said.
This is a good sign.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Well... it seems like every year there is an alarm over a particular strain of flu. Remember when the avian flu was going to wipe out humanity?

I have a daughter with severe asthma... a bad enough cold could land her in the ICU... but I am not too worried about this news... I sometimes think these stories are an effort to push vaxing.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

My husband & I were just researching this & freaking out today. Have you guys looked info up on Wikipedia? The Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918?? I had no idea!! Although, looking that up is NOT going to help calm anyone down....

I'm just going to be as anal retentive about hand washing around here as possible, and take my kids out in the world as little as possible. Just after reading all about it today, we decided I'd better leave the kids home with dad when I did our our grocery shopping.

I'll be watching the news in the coming days/weeks.....


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meowee* 
Well... it seems like every year there is an alarm over a particular strain of flu. Remember when the avian flu was going to wipe out humanity?

I have a daughter with severe asthma... a bad enough cold could land her in the ICU... but I am not too worried about this news... I sometimes think these stories are an effort to push vaxing.

They do however, say that in this particular case the vaccine doesn't really work. And I do agree that people are always freaking out about something! It was just after reading about past outbreaks of this virus that freaked me out. It's amazing how fast it travels, and how many it killed in the past. Yucky. But, we shall see.....


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjande* 
The Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918?? I had no idea!!

OT, but duh, that's what Edward was dying of in Twilight.







Wow I'm a nerd.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
OT, but duh, that's what Edward was dying of in Twilight.







Wow I'm a nerd.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

I've never heard of Twilight. Woohoo, does that mean I'm not a nerd!?? lol


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I'm really freaked out, too. We live in Texas, and immigration from Mexico is very fluid. I"m really rethinking my schedule next week. It seems like a great time to take a week off.

I heard this is airborne, is that true?


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## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

Once upon a time, before I had kids, I always thought of epidemics and natural disasters as natural and necessary population control and wasn't too concerned. I even welcomed the idea of it (too many people consuming too many of the earth's resources - something's got to give).

Now that I actually have kids I'm kind of nervous. I also hate the fact that these things keep coming more and more. (I've been in this region for 28 years and never experienced severe flooding and our neighborhood has flooded 2 years in a row).


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

I hear that...
Seems like things are piling and going so far off balance in so many areas that it IS feeling a bit scary. and yes, it all mounts heavier with the thought of our children, what they will endure , and just trying to give them the wise stregnth they will need is a task in itself....
aaah, why this now? im so tired of illness~
worrying here in Socal too, AND sending out positive vibrations<3


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

I've read that the reason they are so worried about it is that none of the fatalities so far are young children or the elderly. Hence the whole '1918' comparison. Honestly, other than taking my usual precautions of frequent hand sanitizing (with the alcohol based purell), and eating really well to keep my immune system up, I don't think there's much I can do. From the sounds of it, it will take a lot longer than a week for things to calm down, especially since it's already spread pretty far north.

Ami


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

The 1917 flu spread so wildly because the "Spanish" flu actually came from American Troops in Fort Riley Kansas who were exposed to the flu via horse Manure, then shipped to Europe to fight WWI. When troops returned home, it was assumed they caught the flu in Spain instead of actually transporting it to the old world. Please also remember that medical practices have changed dramatically in the last 90 years. We now have anti-virals, understand the dangers of dehydration and are far more likely to visit a Dr. than in 1918. ALso a huge reason the Spanish flu was so deadly is that it spread like wildfire through the trenches on the battlefields. SO even though it currently appears that we are facing the 1918 Spanish flu again, realistically, we are not. The best thing to do right now is just stay calm and use your common sense. Wash hands frequently, stay home if you are sick, stay hydrated and use some rescue remedy if you can't chill out.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

I read this morning the man of the couple who have it here in Kansas, had been in Mexico.


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## Peacemamalove (Jun 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meowee* 
Well... it seems like every year there is an alarm over a particular strain of flu. Remember when the avian flu was going to wipe out humanity?

I have a daughter with severe asthma... a bad enough cold could land her in the ICU... but I am not too worried about this news... I sometimes think these stories are an effort to push vaxing.

Yup scare tactics always get LARGE crowds of people to vax ! Whatever you do do not get the vaccine!

Here is a great article about beating the Flu:

http://www.naturalnews.com/023087.html


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
OT, but duh, that's what Edward was dying of in Twilight.







Wow I'm a nerd.


My grandpa almost died of the flu in 1918 (when he was 17). He had an "out of body experience" and all of his hair fell out.

So then I go "ick"--- Edward would be as old as Grandpa!!!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
The 1917 flu spread so wildly because the "Spanish" flu actually came from American Troops in Fort Riley Kansas who were exposed to the flu via horse Manure, then shipped to Europe to fight WWI. When troops returned home, it was assumed they caught the flu in Spain instead of actually transporting it to the old world. Please also remember that medical practices have changed dramatically in the last 90 years. We now have anti-virals, understand the dangers of dehydration and are far more likely to visit a Dr. than in 1918. ALso a huge reason the Spanish flu was so deadly is that it spread like wildfire through the trenches on the battlefields. SO even though it currently appears that we are facing the 1918 Spanish flu again, realistically, we are not. The best thing to do right now is just stay calm and use your common sense. Wash hands frequently, stay home if you are sick, stay hydrated and use some rescue remedy if you can't chill out.










playing devil's advocate:

Most of the world still lives in 1918 conditions, for all intents and purposes. Access to decent medical care (and clean water, good nutrition, etc.) is a first-world luxury.

Anti-virals? Sure, for some. Mexico City, for example, has 1 million doses of Tamiflu. (For approx. 20 million people).

We're actually a much more mobile society now than in 1918. We do have wars going on (although not a World War) and AIRPLANE TRAVEL makes people (and diseases) incredibly mobile. World population is much greater now, also. (There are more people to play "host" to the disease.)

The flu is mostly airborne. Washing hands won't help with that aspect.

Air pollution is worse now than in 1918, obviously. That taxes people's lungs to begin with. (Mexico City has the worst air pollution in the world.)


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## mommabear207 (Nov 19, 2007)

i also saw a video about the swine flu vaccine that was given in i think the 70s and how it killed more people than the flu itself did. seeing how everyone seems to be recovering i would be a bit leary of getting some new vaccine that could have who knows what wrong with it. but i am also a bit concerned that alot of migrant works come up in the summer from mexico and i have young dcs....


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:

Once upon a time, before I had kids, I always thought of epidemics and natural disasters as natural and necessary population control and wasn't too concerned. I even welcomed the idea of it (too many people consuming too many of the earth's resources - something's got to give).

Now that I actually have kids I'm kind of nervous. I also hate the fact that these things keep coming more and more. (I've been in this region for 28 years and never experienced severe flooding and our neighborhood has flooded 2 years in a row).
Population control well I can see the beauty of how you think of it,but I view this a little diffrent,this day in age







I wouldnt be suprised if this flu is man made and getting us ready for the new world order.There is a whole bunch millions to be exact plastic coffns to put people in georgia.And fema camps.

I truly hope its just a conspricy thought but look em up on u tube they are there.....

Dont flame me just giving my views,personally it scares the crap right out of me


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Geez, another slow news week. They have to use these few deaths, worldwide to generate fears?? (Or, to distract the public from other things going on in the world...)

Pandemic? Oh, please......

Geez, remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic after the relatively few cases of same were reported in Asia not too long ago? Remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an anthrax epidemic after the white-powder-in-envelopes terrorism not too long ago? Remember all those warnings about the possibility of a measles epidemic after the few cases of same were reported in the mid-west not too long ago? Pardon the pun, but those whole scenarios died out, didn't they (but, gosh, they made for great news, for awhile).

I am sorry for those families that have been hit by this illness, I am. But, I'm not worried one bit about this flu or any other flu (in this country or any other). We don't get flu shots. We will not get flu shots, even in the face of an actual epidemic or pandemic (uh-oh, there's that word again). Those that would desire the vaccination will be happy to know there are 5 spare doses of vaccine available, courtesy of my family!

I have more concerns about things like the common Norwalk virus that hits elder care residences (nursing and assisted living homes), causing massive vomiting, diarrhea and dehydration.

Sexually-transmitted diseases are far more common than this (or, other types of) flu. Check out the CDC monthly reported cases of these.

People die from conditions related to obesity, diabetes and heart disease. But, these are so common that they aren't news-worthy anymore.

Same goes with the dangers of cigarettes and their danger to everyone. Why not demand the cessation of their production? Oh, yeah, that would violate people's right to personal pleasure (nevermind what it does to those around them) plus the tobacco lobby wouldn't permit it.









Yet, where is are the DAILY public health warnings about those on the networks newscasts?? Not exactly the stuff CNN leads their broadcasts with, hmmm? Afterall, who wants to hear about old people with vomiting and diarrhea. Or, the mantra about cigarette smoking being bad for you (obviously, nobody reads the small print on a pack before lighting up...)









The reports on the news are all about scare mongering. Keep the public frightened and they will do as they are told.

Looks like it's working.


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## mamaof5boys (Mar 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommabear207* 
i also saw a video about the swine flu vaccine that was given in i think the 70s and how it killed more people than the flu itself did. seeing how everyone seems to be recovering i would be a bit leary of getting some new vaccine that could have who knows what wrong with it. but i am also a bit concerned that alot of migrant works come up in the summer from mexico and i have young dcs....

Here is some info from Wikipedia about the 1976 outbreak:

1976 U.S. outbreak

On February 5, 1976, an army recruit at Fort Dix said he felt tired and weak. He died the next day and four of his fellow soldiers were later hospitalized. Two weeks after his death, health officials announced that swine flu was the cause of death and that this strain of flu appeared to be closely related to the strain involved in the 1918 flu pandemic. Alarmed public-health officials decided that action must be taken to head off another major pandemic, and they urged President Gerald Ford that every person in the U.S. be vaccinated for the disease. The vaccination program was plagued by delays and public relations problems, but about 24% of the population had been vaccinated by the time the program was canceled.[16]

About 500 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the vaccine.[16] Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to Guillain-Barré syndrome.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_i..._U.S._outbreak


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I heard this is airborne, is that true?

All types of influenza (as well as the common cold, etc.) are airborne.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miss Information* 
Once upon a time, before I had kids, I always thought of epidemics and natural disasters as natural and necessary population control and wasn't too concerned. I even welcomed the idea of it (too many people consuming too many of the earth's resources - something's got to give).

Now that I actually have kids I'm kind of nervous.

Yep. Becoming a parent changes everything!!


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## sbgrace (Sep 22, 2004)

I do think this is a bigger life risk for those in other countries (hence the recovery of all in the US so far). Sad that those already struggling have yet more against them.

The nature of this to strike the age it does--and hence parents--bothers me. But I don't lose sleep over this. My husband or myself are much more likely to die in a car accident than the swine flu. We take vitamin D and I hope that would help resistance in this just like the regular flu. I mention that for anyone looking for something to do to possibly help. But I think it's important to put this in perspective. The risk for each individual just isn't that great. You can't control all life risk.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
I do think this is a bigger life risk for those in other countries (hence the recovery of all in the US so far). Sad that those already struggling have yet more against them.

Those in other countries and those here without insurance who don't go in for care for fear of not being able to afford it







:

So a lot of me thinks "yeah right!" about this whole thing. You know just another FEAR FEAR FEAR DOOOOOOOOM!!!! thing the media is throwing out there but then again I am freaked for my kids and living in Southern California.









ETA- and I agree with the massive deaths in the early 20th century not really being relevant in the it was almost 100 years ago. That's kind of like saying homebirths are dangerous because back before all our modern technology a lot of women died in birth, ykwim? Yes people are still living in turn of the century conditions around the world and they will sadly be hit the hardest by this







but I do hope we will share in our technology and give some aid. I know it's not going to be enough. It never is espcially in our classist society but still I pray we will reach out to those in need.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

What symptoms are different than the regular flu?


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## henny penny (Mar 26, 2008)

From what I've read the symptoms are very similar to regular ole human flu. Anyone with flu-like symptoms is urged to go to the doc where swine flu would have to be diagnosed/confirmed by lab testing.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98* 
Geez, another slow news week. They have to use these few deaths, worldwide to generate fears?? (Or, to distract the public from other things going on in the world...)

Pandemic? Oh, please......

Geez, remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic after the relatively few cases of same were reported in Asia not too long ago? Remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an anthrax epidemic after the white-powder-in-envelopes terrorism not too long ago? Remember all those warnings about the possibility of a measles epidemic after the few cases of same were reported in the mid-west not too long ago? Pardon the pun, but those whole scenarios died out, didn't they (but, gosh, they made for great news, for awhile).

I am sorry for those families that have been hit by this illness, I am. But, I'm not worried one bit about this flu or any other flu (in this country or any other). We don't get flu shots. We will not get flu shots, even in the face of an actual epidemic or pandemic (uh-oh, there's that word again). Those that would desire the vaccination will be happy to know there are 5 spare doses of vaccine available, courtesy of my family!

I have more concerns about things like the common Norwalk virus that hits elder care residences (nursing and assisted living homes), causing massive vomiting, diarrhea and dehydration.

Sexually-transmitted diseases are far more common than this (or, other types of) flu. Check out the CDC monthly reported cases of these.

People die from conditions related to obesity, diabetes and heart disease. But, these are so common that they aren't news-worthy anymore.

Same goes with the dangers of cigarettes and their danger to everyone. Why not demand the cessation of their production? Oh, yeah, that would violate people's right to personal pleasure (nevermind what it does to those around them) plus the tobacco lobby wouldn't permit it.









Yet, where is are the DAILY public health warnings about those on the networks newscasts?? Not exactly the stuff CNN leads their broadcasts with, hmmm? Afterall, who wants to hear about old people with vomiting and diarrhea. Or, the mantra about cigarette smoking being bad for you (obviously, nobody reads the small print on a pack before lighting up...)









The reports on the news are all about scare mongering. Keep the public frightened and they will do as they are told.

Looks like it's working.









I totally agree with this. Are the deaths in Darfur no longer garnering enough interest? Or is it that there are deaths occurring closer to home....closer to our clean sheets and warm clothes...I think that's the bigger issue.

I'm not invalidating that the flu can be serious. But it seems like people only give a rats rear end when it's coming too close to civilized society for comfort. Thousands of people die daily from malnutrition and diseases. When will we panic about THAT?


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## nj's_mom (Jan 13, 2009)

I am nervous about this as well, we're in Mass, right next to NY.. actually, my father lives in (upsate, country) NY ... I guess all I can do is stay away from crowds, continue to eat well and BF DD, and be super strict about hand washing!


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## alicewyf (Apr 24, 2008)

Yeah this is scary to me, especially considering the high school closed down in TX due to swine flu is like a mile from my IL's house...needless to say DH did not go over there to help them with their lawn this morning. We are pretty much sequestering ourselves this weekend. I am sending DH to go grocery shopping soon, hopefully he will be fine as long as no one breathes on him!

I don't think I'd be nearly as worried about this if I weren't pregnant.







If more cases/ worse cases show up I am definitely staying home from work this week...luckily I can work from home.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

It's freaking me out too, I live in New York City. DS has a cough, which freaks me out too, but we all had colds last week and he has no fever and has a big appetite, so I presume it's just the lingering cough post cold.

I've been debating keeping DD out of school, but we can't not go anywhere! I mean, we could, I guess, because I can get groceries delivered and we could stay inside and play games and stuff. But... I would need to cancel the sitter for who knows how long, DD would miss her first school field trip that she's very excited about, DH will decidedly not stay home from work so he'll be around all the people at work anyway, and I can't see not doing the library, swim time, or playground for weeks on end.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *henny penny* 
From what I've read the symptoms are very similar to regular ole human flu. Anyone with flu-like symptoms is urged to go to the doc where swine flu would have to be diagnosed/confirmed by lab testing.

Hmmm... we seem to have a stomach bug here and as far as I have read the swine flu is more respiratory? Am I right or totally off?


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Hmmm... we seem to have a stomach bug here and as far as I have read the swine flu is more respiratory? Am I right or totally off?

The "stomach flu" is not at all the same thing as influenza. Influenza A, B, swine, bird, seasonal, etc. is all respiratory... I mean, you *can* vomit I suppose, but influenza involves the respiratory system and is generally not focused on the gastrointestinal system. The term "stomach flu" is a bit of a misnomer.


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## Th1Th2 (Feb 17, 2009)

Sometimes fear will overcome the basic facts regarding disease transmission. Viruses, of any kind, do not survive from without. Diseases evolve from within, such as when the host becomes unhealthy, or when the host has been inoculated with the physiologic evidence of the disease, intentionally (vaccines).


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## leafwood (Jun 15, 2004)

I switch from being super worried to feeling not so concerned about this. We are in NY. I have a 5y old and a 16m old. My work has me in close contanct with children and my husband is a college professor. All I can say is that there are a lot of people who have probably been exposed to the swine flu who have not fallen ill, or were only mildly ill, or got really sick....but then got better. The take home message for me is 1) handwash 2) eat/sleep well 3) seek medical attention at the first sign of a flu.

Actually, I was really sick 2 weeks ago (Easter weekend). I had a chest cold with a fever that got pretty high for me (102-103). I went right into the dr who said he had been seeing a lot of "stubborn" respiratory issues. He prescribed me a z-pac and had me start on asmanex (inhaled powdered steroid) b/c the previous 2 times I've had a chest cold it's progressed to wheezing and gotten pretty bad. I was quite sick for a good 4-5 days. The following weekend Dd ran a very high fever for 24 hours and then was fine. This week the same happened with ds. FWIW, a child I worked with the previous week was sick and had recently returned from a spring break family vaca in Mexico/FL.

When this swine situation came about dh joked that he hoped I had it, and that the kids had mild cases and now we can all carry on. That, in some strange way, was comforting to me. We can all bunker down and hide away....but there is a chance that each and every one of us is currently harboring immunity.


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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

I live in the TX county that closed all schools for the week thanks to 3 high school kids being diagnosed. I'm not real excited about the idea of DH or I missing a week of work, but I'm not sure I want my kids in daycare right now. We just got over week 3 of the stomach bug (absolutely brought home from day care) and we're sick of being sick.

Still not sure what to do...came here looking for non-scare-tactic info.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

It seems like the fear must be creeping further north here in Mexico. Yesterday seemed to be mostly business as usual for a Saturday. Today, my street is dead - usually, even on Sundays, there are tons of gas and water trucks driving up and down my street playing their songs and honking their horns for customers, as well as cars driving by announcing the latest deals at local restaraunts, tamale, churro, and ice cream carts, etc. I haven't heard a gas truck go buy in hours, I've seen very few neighbors out walking, etc. I was going to walk to the store with the kids for bread, but decided to stay home and eat tortillas instead. I was going to take my kids to the bike track to let my son ride around, but thought better of it. I'm driving to San Diego tomorrow, and I'm considering calling the kids' doctor to see if it's possible to get rxs for them for Tamiflu to have on hand in case there are border closures that make it hard for us to get to her. I'm probably also going to stop at costco to stock up on a few things. If I ever see a water truck again, I think I'm going to stop one and by a few extra 400L bottles to have on hand. It will be interesting to see if normal levels of activity here resume tomorrow or not.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Ok i am totally trying to not freak out here, but im in Texas, and i have a "cold" that i cant get rid of. I have had it for about 4 days now.....you dont think its anything to freak out about right? Im just being crazy?


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think you're probably fine. You're supposed to be looking for body aches and severed head ache, as well as a very high fever. If you're just feeling under the weather + coughing, sneezing, etc it's probably just a cold.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Ok yes, your right.









No fever that i know of......and only a slight head ache.

Thanks


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I just realized that I wrote "severed head ache" up there.







. I don't think I would be worried about the swine flu if I had a severed head


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## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 







I just realized that I wrote "severed head ache" up there.







. I don't think I would be worried about the swine flu if I had a severed head









I was thinking that must be a pretty severe headache


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

I think it's a little early to completely breathe easy that none of the confirmed cases in the US have resulted in deaths. Compared to Mexico, we have only a very small number of confirmed cases and so far the cases have been in people who are neither infants or the elderly (I think the youngest so far is 9 and the oldest is 50)--in fact it sounds like most of the cases are in otherwise healthy teenagers who should theoretically have some of the best immune systems in the population. When/if it hits infants, the elderly, those with compromised immune systems, etc., we will likely see higher rates of death (as with any flu or other similar disease).

Not to be scary...I just think it's a little early to think we're in the clear.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dogmom327* 
When/if it hits infants, the elderly, those with compromised immune systems, etc., we will likely see higher rates of death (as with any flu or other similar disease).


Actually, the fatalities have been in healthy adults, 20-45 years old. That's apparently one of the things that's really concerning the experts.


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## Evelynmia'smom (Mar 8, 2009)

I am freaking out too...I live in NYC and I have been sick for the past 5 days...no fever, but have a headache, fatigue...etc. my lo just got over a cold...cough, congestion etc. not a high fever though. I'm wondering if I should call my dr. or will he think I'm nuts. last year I would have been making fun of this media attention, but now that I have my precious lo I am really worried.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae* 
The "stomach flu" is not at all the same thing as influenza. Influenza A, B, swine, bird, seasonal, etc. is all respiratory... I mean, you *can* vomit I suppose, but influenza involves the respiratory system and is generally not focused on the gastrointestinal system. The term "stomach flu" is a bit of a misnomer.

This is exactly what I thought but I keep getting comments "your family is throwing up? Oh my gosh rush to the doctor it could be swine flu!" I didn't think that sounded right...


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I think you're probably fine. You're supposed to be looking for body aches and severed head ache, as well as a very high fever. If you're just feeling under the weather + coughing, sneezing, etc it's probably just a cold.


Ah! Severed Head that sounds bad! he he! tryin to find something light in this worrisome topic, thanks!!

Am I being overly paranoid to consider no school for a few days til we see what happens? we have been so sick for 2 weeks, sick of it!


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

Is it also possible that the severe "colds" we seem to all have been experienceing are a form of this strain ? We are just getting over major stuff, but dh and my heads have been killing us as well as acheyness~Does a virus work like that~mutating into a lesser severity thru time?


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellabluz* 
Is it also possible that the severe "colds" we seem to all have been experienceing are a form of this strain ? We are just getting over major stuff, but dh and my heads have been killing us as well as acheyness~Does a virus work like that~mutating into a lesser severity thru time?

I kind of suspect this might be the case. Indeed, someone said just that was a possibility in the NYTimes story I just read http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/he...questions.html I guess it's a little different, he's saying that there may have been many undiagnosed mild cases not that the virus is getting less severe. I hope so and it turns out not to be a big deal in the end.

"But in Mexico, where the outbreak began, swine flu is believed to have killed at least 81 people and to have given about 1,300 serious breathing problems. The central question every flu expert in the world would like answered, Dr. Martin Cetron, director of global migration and quarantine for the Centers for Disease Control, said in an interview, is how many mild cases Mexico has had.

"We may just be looking at the tip of the iceberg, which would give you a skewed initial estimate of the case fatality rate," he said, meaning that there may have been tens of thousands of mild infections, which would then make the number of deaths seemingly low. In that case, as the flu spreads, it would not be surprising if the number of people who become seriously ill remained relatively small."


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I'm actually kind of hoping we catch it pretty soon. If its like the 1918 epidemic, it started out mild and then came back months later in a more virulent form. I'd like to get it now so that we have more antibodies against a mutation (partial immunity is better than none). I don't know if I could bring myself to deliberately expose my family, though. I'm not that brave, I guess.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98* 
Geez, another slow news week. They have to use these few deaths, worldwide to generate fears?? (Or, to distract the public from other things going on in the world...)

Pandemic? Oh, please......

Geez, remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic after the relatively few cases of same were reported in Asia not too long ago? Remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an anthrax epidemic after the white-powder-in-envelopes terrorism not too long ago? Remember all those warnings about the possibility of a measles epidemic after the few cases of same were reported in the mid-west not too long ago? Pardon the pun, but those whole scenarios died out, didn't they (but, gosh, they made for great news, for awhile).

I am sorry for those families that have been hit by this illness, I am. But, I'm not worried one bit about this flu or any other flu (in this country or any other). We don't get flu shots. We will not get flu shots, even in the face of an actual epidemic or pandemic (uh-oh, there's that word again). Those that would desire the vaccination will be happy to know there are 5 spare doses of vaccine available, courtesy of my family!

I have more concerns about things like the common Norwalk virus that hits elder care residences (nursing and assisted living homes), causing massive vomiting, diarrhea and dehydration.

Sexually-transmitted diseases are far more common than this (or, other types of) flu. Check out the CDC monthly reported cases of these.

People die from conditions related to obesity, diabetes and heart disease. But, these are so common that they aren't news-worthy anymore.

Same goes with the dangers of cigarettes and their danger to everyone. Why not demand the cessation of their production? Oh, yeah, that would violate people's right to personal pleasure (nevermind what it does to those around them) plus the tobacco lobby wouldn't permit it.









Yet, where is are the DAILY public health warnings about those on the networks newscasts?? Not exactly the stuff CNN leads their broadcasts with, hmmm? Afterall, who wants to hear about old people with vomiting and diarrhea. Or, the mantra about cigarette smoking being bad for you (obviously, nobody reads the small print on a pack before lighting up...)









The reports on the news are all about scare mongering. Keep the public frightened and they will do as they are told.

Looks like it's working.









I was going to comment on this thread but, why bother when you pretty much covered my thoughts.

thanks for saving me time typing!


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Actually, the fatalities have been in healthy adults, 20-45 years old. That's apparently one of the things that's really concerning the experts.

That is really scary!


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## Delicateflower (Feb 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zahirakids* 
Yup scare tactics always get LARGE crowds of people to vax ! Whatever you do do not get the vaccine!

Here is a great article about beating the Flu:

http://www.naturalnews.com/023087.html

Zahira, there is no vaccine for this virus.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
Please also remember that medical practices have changed dramatically in the last 90 years. We now have anti-virals, understand the dangers of dehydration and are far more likely to visit a Dr. than in 1918. ALso a huge reason the Spanish flu was so deadly is that it spread like wildfire through the trenches on the battlefields. SO even though it currently appears that we are facing the 1918 Spanish flu again, realistically, we are not.

Gossamer, air travel is even more effective at spreading disease than a crowded trench was.

Dehydration did not kill the victims of the pandemic, nor would modern medicine have saved them. That's why there's been so much concern and preparation in case bird flu becomes human to human transmissible. The only advantage we have over the people of 1918 are antivirals, provided it remains susceptible, and provided they stockpiled enough in preparation for a bird flu pandemic that they can use now.

Quote:

remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic after the relatively few cases of same were reported in Asia not too long ago?
yes, bird flu has a nasty fatality rate, so if it makes the jump to being human-human transmissible like this virus has we'll be in deep deep trouble. Luckily it's only going animal-human at the moment.


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

Yes, it's rather scary.

I was in HK in 1998 when they culled all the chickens in the HKSAR to prevent the spread of H5N1 (bird flu). I was here in 2003, when SARS hit.

SARS was very scary because in the beginning, no one knew how it was transmitted and there was no known treatment. We pulled our dd out of kindie about 2 days before all the kindies were closed down. It spread all over the world. OK, only about 8,000 people came down w/ it - but over 770 people died, almost 10% fatality rate.

Last year, there was another outbreak of "flu-like illness" that closed down schools 1 week before the Spring break.

Because of the SARS, and the ever-present threat of avian flu, in Hong Kong all points of entry have scans for people's temperatures during outbreaks. They've set that up again & anyone entering HK w/ a fever will be brought to hospital and isolated while they check for various flus.

People wash their hands a lot & now here it's often like in Japan, if you have a URTI, it's considered polite to wear a face mask to prevent your germs from infecting others. People w/ URTI symptoms are asked to wear face masks while waiting to see a GP. During even regular flu season, GPs will wear face masks as well.

So, don't panic, but be careful. Mind your hygiene.


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

I find it quite bold of the people that come to this thread (probably for some fearful reasoning, somewhere in them) and want to send out their opinions of higher humanitarianism and potent wisdom that we , who might be a lil worried are, part of the sheep whom will be led to the herd by the big Fear or vaccine use...or whatever...are really reassuring themselves , which is great or just out to prove THEIR point. I think most who come to this one are just looking to vent.
Isnt it a bit early to be judging ... at least we should or could be grateful that the powers that be , might be looking out for the common good? even if that is the hopeful soul in me? an early response is better than none or far too late, no? ie ~Katrina ...
i don't tend to be on the paranoid side , but this strikes something in me.
Or maybe its cause my personal weekend has been quite extreme! ya never know!
Send out the good love







<3


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## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Trying for some perspective here.

Each and every year flu's kill 4000 Canadians.


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

http://www.cnn.com/

"The U.S. declared a public health emergency as the number of identified cases of swine flu in the nation rose to 20."

A *public health emergency* for *20 cases* *NATIONWIDE*?????????

How, on earth can 20 cases out of the US population be deemed a public health emergency?

Like I said, scare mongering (and, apparently, no other news of interest to report...).


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## gruver (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *christifav* 
I live in the TX county that closed all schools for the week thanks to 3 high school kids being diagnosed. I'm not real excited about the idea of DH or I missing a week of work, but I'm not sure I want my kids in daycare right now. We just got over week 3 of the stomach bug (absolutely brought home from day care) and we're sick of being sick.

Still not sure what to do...came here looking for non-scare-tactic info.

up until last year i worked at one of the junior highs in that district. must say i've never been more glad to be out of the teaching profession. i just saw on the news that they've shut down the city parks now too?

i work in retail right now and we have had a lot of customers from mexico lately because of holy shopping week, so i am somewhat concerned. moreso than i probably would be if i wasn't pregnant. add that to sudden onset of allergies (no headache, fever or coughing so i'm trying to keep the paranoia at bay) and it has given me cause for concern.

i'll definitely be asking my dr about it at my 35 week checkup on wednesday.


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## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98* 
http://www.cnn.com/

"The U.S. declared a public health emergency as the number of identified cases of swine flu in the nation rose to 20."

A *public health emergency* for *20 cases* *NATIONWIDE*?????????

How, on earth can 20 cases out of the US population be deemed a public health emergency?

Like I said, scare mongering (and, apparently, no other news of interest to report...).









i know right? the cases in the US and Canada were mild. no one died and only like one person was hospitalized. fear mongering as a scam to get ratings indeed!


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafwood* 
Actually, I was really sick 2 weeks ago (Easter weekend). I had a chest cold with a fever that got pretty high for me (102-103). I went right into the dr who said he had been seeing a lot of "stubborn" respiratory issues. He prescribed me a z-pac and had me start on asmanex (inhaled powdered steroid) b/c the previous 2 times I've had a chest cold it's progressed to wheezing and gotten pretty bad. I was quite sick for a good 4-5 days. The following weekend Dd ran a very high fever for 24 hours and then was fine. This week the same happened with ds. FWIW, a child I worked with the previous week was sick and had recently returned from a spring break family vaca in Mexico/FL.

When this swine situation came about dh joked that he hoped I had it, and that the kids had mild cases and now we can all carry on. That, in some strange way, was comforting to me. We can all bunker down and hide away....but there is a chance that each and every one of us is currently harboring immunity.

I was really sick starting around Easter weekend, with terrible flu-like symptoms. I'm glad there was nothing about this swine flu then, though I like your DH's idea.







My "flu" ended up being bacterial (not sure if it started that way or I developed secondary infections), and after 10+ days, I only started feeling better after starting abx. It's strange to have something so virulent "out there" and yet be something with symptoms so common that in general we'd barely pay attention to them.

I've been seriously considering a trip from the Houston area to Monterrey, MX, for a birth conference next weekend, and while there are various factors going against my trip, the swine flu outbreak seems to be the final nail in the coffin.







I was hoping to go with my MW, but I doubt she'd be willing to risk exposure when she's got births to attend.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Well, if it makes people feel better to say that it's fear mongering and a media ploy for ratings, then more power to you.

However this has me worried because it is a brand new, never-seen-before strain of flu that is killing HEALTHY people in the prime of their lives. The regular flu tends to kill the already-ill, the young, and the elderly. Because it is new, it is completely unpredictable, and it can mutate and affect different people a different way. At this point, they also don't know how infectious it is - it could be as infectious as the flu pandemic of 1918. Statistically, we are also overdue for a pandemic. All of these factors combine to make me worried, but certainly not to panic, as I've already had a general emergency plan in place.

I suppose the other factor that has me worried is that my dd attends a private language immersion school (Spanish-French-Mandarin) and she has dozens of teachers that went back to Mexico over spring break to visit family. Plus we have possible cases in my area (samples are at the CDC right now, as they do not match any strains our state has ever seen, but no confirmation yet). Plus dd is sick right now (just a cold, but still, she has a compromised immune system right now).

I think that everyone should be at least putting together a plan of what you would do if the WHO raised the level to a 4 or 5 and/or if your area is shut down like the areas in Texas and California (where I've read that even the local parks are closed). If the local governments, even as a precaution, tell people to stay home, how long can you stay at home without having to go out? If you do go out, how can you protect yourself? These are questions people at least need to ask themselves. Not just for the swine flu, but for any emergency situation. Just my two cents.


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## larkedyflarp (Feb 20, 2009)

The people that died in Mexico, are they dying of secondary infections like regular flu?


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Velochic, I totally agree. I went out yesterday and bought groceries and diapers, not stockpiles of them, but the stuff we were a little low on-oatmeal, rice, fruit, etc. I'm making a little list for myself of rainy day games to play with the kids indoors. We could stay in for the week pretty comfortably (other than the fact that it's gorgeous outside!)

I'm going to keep DD home from school today, and we're not going to the playground, library, or grocery store. There needs to be more info before I'm comfortable going about our regular routine.

DH on the other hand doesn't think its a big deal and is still going to work. At least he walks to work and works in a very small office! He took the kids to the playground and shopping yesterday, which I'm not thrilled about though.

I am kind of glad that this seems to have a short incubation-they're saying 24-48 hours-so I think we'll know more and more every day. We're in NYC, so no mass school closings or park closings or anything.

DS's cough is worse and phlemgier today, but he doesn't have a fever, and he's had this cough for like a week and a half now. I suppose it's far more likely to be a regular cold turned into something bacterial than to be swine flu atop a cold even if a fever does start up. He's also totally happy and eating like mad.


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

I recently read a novel about the Spanish flu...I cannot for the life of me find it, either on my shelf or on amazon.com, but it talked about how they were just beginning to learn that microorganisms caused diseases. Prior to that time (early 1900s) it was believed that bad blood caused disease, which is why they did bloodletting.

Since we know this now, and because we have things like indoor plumbing, bottled water (don't have to walk to a well to get water), (many of us have) air conditioning (can keep windows closed), even a really bad outbreak would not be as bad as 1918.


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## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Well, if it makes people feel better to say that it's fear mongering and a media ploy for ratings, then more power to you.

*However this has me worried because it is a brand new, never-seen-before strain of flu that is killing HEALTHY people in the prime of their lives.*

Not so the world has seen swine flu outbreaks before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu

Quote:

*1976 U.S. outbreak*
On February 5, 1976, an army recruit at Fort Dix said he felt tired and weak. He died the next day and four of his fellow soldiers were later hospitalized. Two weeks after his death, health officials announced that swine flu was the cause of death and that this strain of flu appeared to be closely related to the strain involved in the 1918 flu pandemic. Alarmed public-health officials decided that action must be taken to head off another major pandemic, and they urged President Gerald Ford that every person in the U.S. be vaccinated for the disease. The vaccination program was plagued by delays and public relations problems, but about 24% of the population had been vaccinated by the time the program was canceled.

About 500 cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, resulting in death from severe pulmonary complications for 25 people, were probably caused by an immunopathological reaction to the 1976 vaccine. Other influenza vaccines have not been linked to Guillain-Barré syndrome, though caution is advised for certain individuals, particularly those with a history of GBS.

The following rant is not directed at you Velochic.









Modern News Media is terrible they are constantly putting words into headlines that cause people to worry. Have you ever noticed we never have just a thunderstorm anymore? They are always Severe Thunderstorms. In the winter every snowstorm warrents the Storm Center Team on high alert. It's Crisis this and Danger that ALL. THE. TIME! "Something in your home right now could be killing you! We will tell you about it after the commercial break."

Does anyone remember the story called the Boy who Cried Wolf? We are all sick to death of every news article and show calling wolf and guess what? Some of us don't believe them at all anymore! That's what happens.

Is this thing real? Only time will tell but like I said in my PP 4000 Canadians die each and every year from flu's.


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## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
Not so the world has seen swine flu outbreaks before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu

The following rant is not directed at you Velochic.









Modern News Media is terrible they are constantly putting words into headlines that cause people to worry. Have you ever noticed we never have just a thunderstorm anymore? They are always Severe Thunderstorms. In the winter every snowstorm warrents the Storm Center Team on high alert. It's Crisis this and Danger that ALL. THE. TIME! "Something in your home right now could be killing you! We will tell you about it after the commercial break."

Does anyone remember the story called the Boy who Cried Wolf? We are all sick to death of every news article and show calling wolf and guess what? Some of us don't believe them at all anymore! That's what happens.

Is this thing real? Only time will tell but like I said in my PP 4000 Canadians die each and every year from flu's.


PA I was just watching Donald Lowe on CBC and he says that the signs are there that this could be the pandemic that they have been planning for. I trust him and I don't think this is something to be taken lightly.

My understanding is that while this is swine flu there are strains of other flus at work as well - human and bird - which means that this could be something more difficult for the human immune system to fight.


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## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karenwith4* 
PA I was just watching Donald Lowe on CBC and he says that the signs are there that this could be the pandemic that they have been planning for. I trust him and I don't think this is something to be taken lightly.

My understanding is that while this is swine flu there are strains of other flus at work as well - human and bird - which means that this could be something more difficult for the human immune system to fight.

CBC also told us last night to vaccinate ourselves with the flu vaccine even though it is ineffective against the swine flu and any flu's that have been going around this year!


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## William's Mom (Oct 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 







I just realized that I wrote "severed head ache" up there.







. I don't think I would be worried about the swine flu if I had a severed head









For some reason, I can't stop laughing at this quote. Thanks for interjecting some much needed humor into my day!


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## sprouthead (Jul 14, 2007)

I don't watch a lot of tv so last night was the first i heard about the swine flu on the news, and I was interested that the news reported all of the statistics about deaths in mexico, and where they've found the flu in the US and Canada, and it showed so much footage of people wearing masks in public venues, and then it just said "for more information on the swine flu, such as symptoms to look for or ways to prevent transmission, please visit our website.." Really? I would think that if this really was a flu of pandemic proportions, wouldn't they *focus* on information about how to tell if you had it and what to do about it? They did say a few times that while there wasn't a vaccine yet, scientists are working one now, and I'm certain that after hearing those statistics and seeing that footage, as soon as one is released people will be lining up for it! I'd also be interested to know what has caused so many deaths in mexico, but not as many (comparatively) in the rest of the world.


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## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
CBC also told us last night to vaccinate ourselves with the flu vaccine even though it is ineffective against the swine flu and any flu's that have been going around this year!

It's Donald Lowe I trust just to clarify.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

I have to admit that living in the Phoenix area, this has me concerned. There is such a flow of people to and from Mexico in my area and it does scare me. I admit that if there is a local outbreak, my kids will be staying home from school and other activities.

My husband is also a pilot and it terrifies that me he'll bring something home with him


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
Not so the world has seen swine flu outbreaks before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu

The following rant is not directed at you Velochic.



















Yes, but this is a new strain. That's what I stated. They started seeing it in March 2009.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Dh & I agreed that for the next few days at least, we'll keep the kids home & watch for news updates. This thing does seem to be traveling extremely fast & I fear we'll see many more "confirmed" case in the coming days. So, we'll just lay low until we decide whether we've reached "freak out" stage or not.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

subbing for updates....


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

I honestly don't know what to think...
Still feel like I'm in the "gathering information" stage of things.
I keep seeing these articles suggesting swine flu was created in a laboratory - and all these conspiratorial slants on this.
The fear-mongering can get out of hand - but at the same time I don't feel comfortable sticking my head in the sand either.

It doesn't hurt to prepare by stocking up on antiviral herbs, basic supplies, and doing what we can to stay healthy.

Thanks to everyone who's participating here - I think it helps just to have a place like this to vent and to get different perspectives.

fp


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## iamama (Jul 14, 2003)

I always have a tonic called "fire cider" on hand. It is a concoction made with apple cider vinegar, horseradish, onion, peppers, garlic, and herbs. Most germs hang out in the back of the throat and this stuff works! I would take it everyday if I was worried about getting flu.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

dh says the border agents don't even seem to be asking if people have been feeling sick, which the news says they've been asked to do - they didn't ask him, at least.

My biggest concern right now is that dh works at a pharmacy - so if people really start getting sick, he's likely to be exposed. The other concern is, for my own little family, the ramifications of a border closure - since we live in Mexico but dh works in the US. If he's on the US side and they start shutting things down, he can stay at my mom's place for the duration, but if he's down here, he's screwed and unable to get to work.


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

What are some good anti-viral herbs and other favorite health aides? Also, what are some of your essential first aid/emergc items besides the basics?


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Does anyone know when this current strain started popping up? We were all quite sick just before Easter-time (beginning of the month IIRC; I'd have to have dh look at his absent days to confirm). My middle son was fine, but the rest of us had the fever, horrible sore throat, congestion, cough, headache, in bed for a while - especially dh and I (we were the hardest hit). What is the likelihood of having actually had this strain of influenza? Dh teaches and is in contact with tons of people all day, many of who are students with families out-of-country. If the strain was popping up by the beginning of April, I could see us having been exposed to it (we are in CA).


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm still on the fence. It does seem to be the typical fear mongering to me especially conveniently placed within a failing economy. Still it doesn't hurt to be prepared but really we should strive for that always


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## mountainsun (Jan 11, 2005)

Quote:

What are some good anti-viral herbs and other favorite health aides? Also, what are some of your essential first aid/emergc items besides the basics?
I feel like I am just gathering info here, as well. I got Jay Gordon's email saying not to buy into the panic that the msm is portraying. At the same time, I am a bit worried, I think this is only the start.

As far as herbs and such, I have garlic capsules, echinacea/ goldenseal tincture and Elderberry syrup on hand. Also emergen-C, medicinal teas (Gypsy Cold Care from Yogi and a kids cold care from Traditional Medicinals). Also zinc lozenges for adults and kids.

We also take a probiotic and multi-vitamins (not religiously).

This is all stuff I keep on hand, nothing that I have bought specifically for this situation.


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:

What are some good anti-viral herbs and other favorite health aides? Also, what are some of your essential first aid/emergc items besides the basics?
Here's a thread going on this:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1076488


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

little wonders~
we had that same thing too and also in ca. i am wondering if this strain that we had might have been "the virus " circulating for a while and now it's just out there in a bigger way. if so , it would probably be a good thing we caught it, as we would have developed some antibodies toward it if it gets worse. someone posted a similar theory from a ny times article a few pages back. intresting.


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## hookahgirl (May 22, 2005)

I am in NE Ohio and also got really sick before Easter....hummm


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm going to sub to this thread. And, yes, I am very concerned. I read some articles about the previous outbreaks (that 1918 and the one in the 70s). Of course, us as parents are smack dab in the middle of the highest rate of mortality. Those with the best immune systems have the most severe cases (cytokine storms aparrently). It does feel like in was really an inevitability that we would eventually deal with something like this. The previous infection rates were 50% with a 5-20% fatality rate. So, I'm definitely hoping that this is not going to spread far.


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

I'm really hoping that we already had this. All 4 of us were very sick a few weeks ago. It was upper respiritory and _much_ stronger than just a cold.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I can't start a poll right now with DS getting into everything, but it would be nice to do a poll and see who/how many have been sicker than usual this year. We almost never have colds with fever, but we've all had it this year too. Late March for us in NYC. Everyone around us had it too. Then we had Norwalk about 2 weeks earlier-Ugh!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

It looks like here in Tijuana, they are closing schools. I just saw a bunch of high schoolers walking home - and it's only 11AM.

ETA: looks like it was ordered at a national level. I'm trying to find out if there are any local cases.


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## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

I love my pediatrician. He sent this out to all of his patients today...

Subject: Swine flu/Tamiflu

Dear Patients,

Just wash your hands.
Every year, hundreds of viruses pass through the pediatric and adult community. Many of the bugs are disruptive and keep kids out of school and adults away from work. Some of the viruses have unique signs and symptoms, but most just cause amorphous aches, sneezing, coughing or intestinal upset.
Influenza viruses, especially new ones, trigger more news stories and can be made to seem much more frightening and dangerous than they really are. Government agencies and media don't supply statistical context and make it sound like you've got a "fifty-fifty" chance of contracting this new virus. They then make it sound like a lot of people who get this influenza end up in the hospital and may die. Statistically, nothing could be further from the truth: The chance that the new virus is really dangerous is small. The chance that you'll get it is much, much smaller, and the possibility that you or a family member will be harmed by the virus is so slim that the news should be on page twenty, not page one.
Swine Flu is a virus for which there is no vaccine, no threat to your family and there are undoubtedly tens of thousands of harmless undiagnosed cases throughout the world. The news stories are probably taking a hundred questionable respiratory deaths in Mexico and guessing.
There actually is a very, very small chance that this virus could cause severe illness and whenever this occurs hospitalization and even fatalities are reported. The likelihood of a pandemic is miniscule, but newspapers, governments agencies and the manufacturers of pharmaceuticals do their best work and make their biggest sales when people are scared.
Tamiflu is recommended for treatment and prevention of this influenza virus. The company which gets the drug's royalties (Gilead) has as a major stockholder--previously Chairman--one Donald Rumsfeld.
Local pharmacies are already running low on Tamiflu.
Connect these dots. *

http://uk.reuters.com/article/govern...45216420090424

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/tamiflu.asp

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news...tune_rumsfeld/

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...53O17O20090425

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...nds-to-tamiflu

The usual boring admonitions apply: wash your hands, stay well-rested and well-hydrated. You do not need to buy Tamiflu. It is an effective antiviral drug but has possible side effects.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/heal...iflu-psych.htm

As far as our office prescribing Tamiflu, we would rather not, but we will if you insist. I promise you that I personally am purchasing none for my family and would recommend the same to you.

Best,
Jay
JNG, MD FAAP
http://www.drjaygordon.com


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## lactivistmama (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellabluz* 
little wonders~
we had that same thing too and also in ca. i am wondering if this strain that we had might have been "the virus " circulating for a while and now it's just out there in a bigger way. if so , it would probably be a good thing we caught it, as we would have developed some antibodies toward it if it gets worse. someone posted a similar theory from a ny times article a few pages back. intresting.

We had this as well.. Horrible coughing, congestion, sore throat and headache.. All 4 of us had it me and my dh worse than the children. It lasted about a week-2 weeks. We are in CA as well.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I can't start a poll right now with DS getting into everything, but it would be nice to do a poll and see who/how many have been sicker than usual this year. We almost never have colds with fever, but we've all had it this year too. Late March for us in NYC. Everyone around us had it too. Then we had Norwalk about 2 weeks earlier-Ugh!

Ok, I just looked up when we were sick (I had posted about possible pneumonia in dh on a different board). It looks like dh first got sick on March 20th, got better over the weekend, and then was down and out starting again on Monday the 23rd. He thought he had pneumonia, had a fever, etc. I got sick the following weekend - started on Friday the 27th. Basically the same thing for me. Ds#1 and ds#3 both got sick about the same time I did - both with fever. So, a bit earlier than April, but with the same symptoms they are putting out with this one and the same knock-you-on-your-butt for a while. Hmm ... we typically never get sick, and definitely usually have nothing like this (dh ended up taking 4-5 days off over the stretch of 2 weeks between him and I both being sick).


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## didelphus (May 25, 2003)

I love that letter, Happy2bamama! That's a great one.
I think it's 95% media hype. Sure it could spread but I don't think it is worthy of major panic. From the last hurricanes I've learned well what the media and rumors can do. They fuel fear and often spread rumors and lies. Think of what the media has done to fuel this recession.
Panic and worry don't help. If it would make you feel better, get prepared...like a hurricane kit with a couple of weeks worth of food, medicines, you need, and other supplies. Wash your hands often. Sure it's airborne but you still mostly contract it by someone's airborne germs hitting a surface and getting on your hands.
Worry doesn't help. Of course it's hard not to worry when you've got kids involved but it doesn't help and will only make you worse off.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Does anyone know when this current strain started popping up?

I had read that it was April 12th. I think either on flutrackers.com or the WHO website


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

me ds, dp, & my mom all recently had some kind of wicked flu ds had it the worst. my mother called in a panic b/c she thinks we all had swine flu (we live in NOVA so its unlikely) but she was very worried b/c of the deaths. i said mom we had it two weeks ago so even if it was that i think we are out of the woods


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this was already posted but the swine flu has been traced back to a Mexican pig CAFO (Confined Animal Feeding Operation), apparently it is all over the news but hasn't been covered in our country.
Check out this article about it: http://www.foodrenegade.com/deadly-s.../#comment-2245

this is why we need to stop buying factory-farmed meat!! let's speak as consumers and buy only sustainable-farm meats (local, pasture-raised)....we are the ones who keep these things in business (well maybe not so much here at MDC but consumers in general. And just because it is organic doesn't mean it came from a sustainable farm, some organic meat-producing companies still the confinement thing.....

Also, I would say, to boost immune system. Make some good stock from grass-fed beef, chicken, lamb or wild-caught fish. It is full of lots of immune-system boosters! Add some fermented cod-liver oil to your diet as well.


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
me ds, dp, & my mom all recently had some kind of wicked flu ds had it the worst. my mother called in a panic b/c she thinks we all had swine flu (we live in NOVA so its unlikely) but she was very worried b/c of the deaths. i said mom we had it two weeks ago so even if it was that i think we are out of the woods









LOL, I read a comment somewhere by an ER doctor who was dreading what was coming...in the form of a bunch of people SURE they have swine flu demanding to be seen immediately....even without symptoms. I remember during the anthrax scare I was sure I had it (hey, my excuse is I lived in NYC and the paranoia there was really bad) and went to the ER. It was a regular asthma attack.....probably brought on by stress!


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## mrsbernstein (Jun 17, 2006)

It's funny that y'all are talking about "being sick" earlier this year.

EVERY YEAR I get teh flu. Your basic, old run-of-the-mill Flu. Every year. And about the same time.

THIS YEAR, in March, we did an "elimination diet" of sorts. I was doing great. Then the second week, I cheated. The next DAY I was so sick...I could barely get out of bed. FOUR DAYs of it. Then, I managed to pull myself back together...and then cheated again. The next day...yep, down again.

But this time, I had that UBER-runny nose, aches, pains. But no up-chucking. It was the worst "cold" I have had in years. NOTHING worked, and I had it over a week. It just wouldn't quit. Now that this is coming up...it makes more sense.

This would have been about the 2-4th week of March.

Mrs B


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## henny penny (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
I love my pediatrician. He sent this out to all of his patients today...

Subject: Swine flu/Tamiflu


OMG! I love your pediatrician! Thanks for posting that great letter happy2bamama! Your ped makes an excellent point that many mild flu cases could have already been from this particular virus and just not diagnosed as such since the people recovered fine on their own.


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## ochoco (Oct 19, 2005)

I know it's disturbing to hear news of the flu's spread, but honestly the chance of coming to harm while driving to the grocery store is much higher than the chance of contracting the flu at this point. As people above have pointed out, basic hygiene and common sense is really the best way to go. It's just that this flu is the scary illness of the moment (remember SARS? Avian flu?) Things may change, but for now there's really no point in living in fear.

Also - many people here choose not to vaccinate their children, and don't live in fear of measles or whooping cough, which are both fairly nasty. It doesn't seem like the flu is much scarier, given that there have been no deaths in developed countries so far.

And now I need to knock on wood!


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

I think there is a whole bunch of hysteria going on right now...
First of all I am from Spain and let me tell you from history classes and common sense I can promise you that Spain back in that time was not what the US is right now. Just the concentration on people in Mexico make things harder over there.

Mexico City - Population - City: 8,836,045 (2008)
Mexico City - swine flu deaths: 149

Just a few numbers to keep things in perspective.

WASH your hands
Eat well
Rest
Drink your water
If you are super nervous take some rescue remedy










Personally I think this is getting blown out of proportion by the ratings hungry media.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

This page was about the avian flu but I think stuff still applies. Also, it talks about the cytokine storms and what to avoid to help prevent that. Kimchi is on the list of things to avoid, as is echinacea and spirulina.

A lot of good info here though:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

~Tracy


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm confused how it would still apply if it's about a different flu? And...DH would never speak to me again if kimchi was off the menu


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## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
I love my pediatrician. He sent this out to all of his patients today...

Subject: Swine flu/Tamiflu

Dear Patients,

Just wash your hands.
Every year, hundreds of viruses pass through the pediatric and adult community. Many of the bugs are disruptive and keep kids out of school and adults away from work. Some of the viruses have unique signs and symptoms, but most just cause amorphous aches, sneezing, coughing or intestinal upset.
Influenza viruses, especially new ones, trigger more news stories and can be made to seem much more frightening and dangerous than they really are. Government agencies and media don't supply statistical context and make it sound like you've got a "fifty-fifty" chance of contracting this new virus. They then make it sound like a lot of people who get this influenza end up in the hospital and may die. Statistically, nothing could be further from the truth: The chance that the new virus is really dangerous is small. The chance that you'll get it is much, much smaller, and the possibility that you or a family member will be harmed by the virus is so slim that the news should be on page twenty, not page one.
Swine Flu is a virus for which there is no vaccine, no threat to your family and there are undoubtedly tens of thousands of harmless undiagnosed cases throughout the world. The news stories are probably taking a hundred questionable respiratory deaths in Mexico and guessing.
There actually is a very, very small chance that this virus could cause severe illness and whenever this occurs hospitalization and even fatalities are reported. The likelihood of a pandemic is miniscule, but newspapers, governments agencies and the manufacturers of pharmaceuticals do their best work and make their biggest sales when people are scared.
Tamiflu is recommended for treatment and prevention of this influenza virus. The company which gets the drug's royalties (Gilead) has as a major stockholder--previously Chairman--one Donald Rumsfeld.
Local pharmacies are already running low on Tamiflu.
Connect these dots. *

http://uk.reuters.com/article/govern...45216420090424

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/tamiflu.asp

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news...tune_rumsfeld/

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...53O17O20090425

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...nds-to-tamiflu

The usual boring admonitions apply: wash your hands, stay well-rested and well-hydrated. You do not need to buy Tamiflu. It is an effective antiviral drug but has possible side effects.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/heal...iflu-psych.htm

As far as our office prescribing Tamiflu, we would rather not, but we will if you insist. I promise you that I personally am purchasing none for my family and would recommend the same to you.

Best,
Jay
JNG, MD FAAP
http://www.drjaygordon.com

i heart your doctor.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Does anyone know when this current strain started popping up? We were all quite sick just before Easter-time (beginning of the month IIRC; I'd have to have dh look at his absent days to confirm). My middle son was fine, but the rest of us had the fever, horrible sore throat, congestion, cough, headache, in bed for a while - especially dh and I (we were the hardest hit). What is the likelihood of having actually had this strain of influenza? Dh teaches and is in contact with tons of people all day, many of who are students with families out-of-country. If the strain was popping up by the beginning of April, I could see us having been exposed to it (we are in CA).

We are in CA and had this too. It was definitely a worse flu than we have had in years. It was notably different than previous, and all the families of ds's kindergarten classmates got it too, with most of the parents saying they were sick for weeks, although for us it was only about ten days. So we all definitely have immunity to some strain, who knows if it's the same...

I'm not panicking but going over my list of home treatments which I'm realizing I ought to do better keeping up stock on anyhow!


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## mamaof5boys (Mar 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama* 
This page was about the avian flu but I think stuff still applies. Also, it talks about the cytokine storms and what to avoid to help prevent that. Kimchi is on the list of things to avoid, as is echinacea and spirulina.

A lot of good info here though:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

~Tracy

Oh No!!! I just read your link... we took elderberry juice all winter as a prophylactic precaution. We had a much healthier winter this year than last year. I wasn't too concerned about the swine flu because of the elderberry juice, now I'm thinking we need to avoid it??? My husband just sent me info on cytokine storms today- never hear of it before! Hmmm....

Okay, so I'm really not wanting all seven of us to be sick!! Have any of you thought about pulling kids out of school, or staying home just to avoid this, even though it could be a very mild illness? Is it unrealistic to think we could just wait it out at home for a couple of weeks until it's over? If you are doing this, at what point would you keep everyone home home?


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## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaof5boys* 
Okay, so I'm really not wanting all seven of us to be sick!! Have any of you thought about pulling kids out of school, or staying home just to avoid this, even though it could be a very mild illness? Is it unrealistic to think we could just wait it out at home for a couple of weeks until it's over? If you are doing this, at what point would you keep everyone home home?

I'll probably stick a little closer to home until they find out exactly what's going on. We won't stay home completely but I might stay home when I would otherwise go out if it's not necessary. I'll leave the kids at home with DH when I go to the store, etc. But I'll let DS go to boy scouts, we'll go to church, etc.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:

I'm confused how it would still apply if it's about a different flu?
It is about natural anti-viral remedies, which would apply to any viral illness. And then specifically, it talks about avoiding cytokine storms, which happen during the bird flu, and it looks like have happened with the swine flu, at least in Mexico, as evidenced by the deaths of healthy adults.

~Tracy


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

wouldn't it be more accurate to say that those people who have cykotine storms appear to have healthy immune systems but in fact they do not?
If their immune systems were truly "healthy" they wouldn't mal-function, no?

It's apparent to me that the medical community doesn't fully understand the immune system.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama* 
It is about natural anti-viral remedies, which would apply to any viral illness. And then specifically, it talks about avoiding cytokine storms, which happen during the bird flu, and it looks like have happened with the swine flu, at least in Mexico, as evidenced by the deaths of healthy adults.

~Tracy

Gotcha


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## mountainsun (Jan 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama* 
This page was about the avian flu but I think stuff still applies. Also, it talks about the cytokine storms and what to avoid to help prevent that. Kimchi is on the list of things to avoid, as is echinacea and spirulina.

A lot of good info here though:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

~Tracy

Wow, off to read your linky, thanks







I know to not take echinacea for too long a time (like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) but had no idea that it may be harmful, not helpful in certain situations


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## k9sarchik (Nov 11, 2006)

Ok, the latest # of deaths being reported is 149 in Mexico. But WHO is reporting only 7 confirmed. http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_27/en/index.html

Is the news reporting the truth?


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## mom0810 (May 19, 2006)

I got the email from Dr. Jay, and it's full of great information and wonderful advice.

Three words.

Wash. Your. Hands.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I think that what some people are not thinking about is the fallout from all of this even if it isn't a fatal flu. Even if a lot of people are sick at one time, it will disrupt the infrastructure. People will have to stay home. They might get fired (some companies don't even accept doctor's notes). Schools may close, so even if *you* aren't sick, you may have to still stay home. The doctors' offices will be swamped, and probably understaffed. Garbage men may have to take time off, postal workers time off, cops time off, firefighters time off (you get the picture). The economy would take a hit.

It doesn't take this to be an ebola virus with a high fatality rate to still wreak havoc. Even if people aren't afraid of DYING from it, people should be afraid of how it would affect the country if a large number of people are simply *at home in bed* all at one time.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Velochic, I think that's why it's comforting to think that it might be "worse than usual flu" that it seems many of us have had this year. It might already have gone through the US.

So far, I'm trying to just keep an eye on the news while changing our routine in small ways--keeping DD out of school (her school is closed for teacher training tomorrow anyway) and DS out of classes for a few days, making sure we have enough food and supplies in case things do get worse here, and washing hands a lot.

I'm debating if I should cancel the sitter for tomorrow, since if DS isn't going to his dance class, work for me can be easily postponed so there's no real reason to have her come. That's a different issue though, no freelance work currently, just job hunting. OTOH, DH is going to work, I went to the pharmacy for supplies today, DH took the kids to the playground yesterday... what's one more person? And I don't want to cut her paid hours ethically, but don't want to pay for unused time either. Sigh.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
Not so the world has seen swine flu outbreaks before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu

.

Yes, we've seen swine flu, but not this exact genetic form of swine flu.

Velochic is my guru. If she's concerned, so am I.


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## leafwood (Jun 15, 2004)

Again, I'm flipping from being super concerned to feeling not so worried. In the end, I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. I have upped our "wellness" procedures at home. However, we're carrying on as usual otherwise. Dd is going to preschool, dh and I are working, the sitter is coming to watch ds. I understand that the fallout can be marked even without widespread fatalities, but I am also a firm believer that we are all quite powerful. That we all have a great deal of energy, and we tend to create what we focus on. So, I'm not tuning into the news as frequently as I'm being drawn to. I am taking what I do hear with a grain of salt and deciding to focus on keeping my family and myself healthy. It is scary. I am just (for this hour at least







) choosing not to live in fear becuase I do not think that will help anything.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leafwood* 
Again, I'm flipping from being super concerned to feeling not so worried. In the end, I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. I have upped our "wellness" procedures at home. However, we're carrying on as usual otherwise. Dd is going to preschool, dh and I are working, the sitter is coming to watch ds. I understand that the fallout can be marked even without widespread fatalities, but I am also a firm believer that we are all quite powerful. That we all have a great deal of energy, and we tend to create what we focus on. So, I'm not tuning into the news as frequently as I'm being drawn to. I am taking what I do hear with a grain of salt and deciding to focus on keeping my family and myself healthy. It is scary. I am just (for this hour at least







) choosing not to live in fear becuase I do not think that will help anything.

And nobody SHOULD live in fear or panic about this. But by being able to foresee what the possible repercussions are, it allows you to prepare for that eventuality. I've always said that the key is to rationally and calmly evaluate the situation, then slowly and meticulously do what you feel is the appropriate measures. It's important to stay informed. The more information you are armed with, the better off you are. Just think through what might happen in your own situation and at least mentally come up with some ideas about how you might handle them. When you have a plan in place, you're less likely to be scared and panic.

A&A, you're so funny!


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## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

I'm wondering if I'm vastly under reacting to this, because to me it just seems like same old, same old. The # of cases in Mexico City compared to the population and the proximity of people in small spaces within that population does not seem all that alarming at the moment. The deaths are awful though.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:

As far as our office prescribing Tamiflu, we would rather not, but we will if you insist. I promise you that I personally am purchasing none for my family and would recommend the same to you.
Yes, and here is my REAL fear about all of this. People are going to start taking Tamiflu left and right. And what do viruses do when you attack them with anti-virals? The mutate and get STONGER. I understand people with flu wanting to take Tamiflu, especially in this case where there have been a number of deaths, but what on earth are we going to create? Not to fear monger, but I do fear that the worst is yet to come....


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

I think the disruption to the economy has already begun. With travel warnings to the US and some countries banning meat imports from the US.... the last thing we need is another industry taking a economic hit. The financial markets have already taken hits.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

I live in the Bay Area. I just read that a case has been confirmed in Sacramento. Bummer. So now it is in Northern California. I live in a 80% predominantly Mexican community. I emailed DH this morning and told him to just go home and not go anywhere in town. We work in a different town so I told him to shop there and and only go home to sleep. I am in Florida right now and am a bit freaked out about traveling home in a week as the plane goes through Texas.









I would say too, that DH and I likely had the flu this February. DD was sick but well within 3-4 days. We were really ill for a week. I was hit hard with chills, fever and aches. Makes me wonder... was it just regular flu or have there been cases around during flu season and it just was passed off as regular flu?


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## rach03 (Dec 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama* 
This page was about the avian flu but I think stuff still applies. Also, it talks about the cytokine storms and what to avoid to help prevent that. Kimchi is on the list of things to avoid, as is echinacea and spirulina.

A lot of good info here though:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

~Tracy

Interesting! Does anyone know of a website or reference where you would figure out what the dosages on these would be? I see it does say which ones are safe for kids and nurslings and which aren't, that's helpful!


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.









I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172


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## janinemh (Apr 25, 2006)

HI all,
Haven't read all this thread yet but thought I'd post this link to an article on influenza prevention from the Medical Herbalism journal. I thought it was pretty interesting. I think we are going to focus on Vit D and Cod liver oil especially for my mom and DS. Then add in a lot of nutrient dense foods to get the other vitamins reccomended.

http://naimh.com/Influenza-prevention.pdf


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Having just come back from a week in mexico (puerto vallarta), I guess I should be more worried than I am, but really, I'm more worried about all the panic this is causing people. this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I guess working as a nurse, I see all the nasty bacteria out there and that truly is more frightening to me. it used to be that bugs like C.Diff, MSRA and VRE were only in the old with immune-compromised systems, but now I see it in the postpartum unit. Or in people with simple infections that are strong, otherwise healthy young people.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain. Yes, we should prepare. But it is not causing a high death rate in the US, and the normal, yearly flu kills more than 36K each year! And how many children have died from just getting their vaccines and the complications that follow?

I am pretty certain we had the flu this year and last, in fact, we seem to get it every year and we have been very, very sick. I don't want to get the flu again, but I know it's a certainty that I will, either now or in the future. But I don't panic about it day and night. That wouldn't make sense.

I hope people take a step back, turn off the tv and computer for a day or two, and get a little reality. Go out, enjoy the day, live normally, and don't worry about something you can't control anyway.

I see people buying masks left and right, but they are being misused anyway. If you have a mask on to protect you, then use your hands to put it on and off, adjust it, etc. and better yet, take if off and leave it to wear the next day, it's totally useless!!! You are going to get whatever you touched on there anyway!

Just my opinion, I realize everyone has an opinion on this. but the truth is, no one knows much about this virus, and the public can't do much anyway!


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## subtlycrunchy (Jul 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.









I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172

Good link! I like these two for basics of swine flu symptoms and good hygiene -- one on pregnancy, one on baby health and swine flu...

http://www.babyzone.com/pregnancy/photos_1025670

http://www.babyzone.com/loadpage/aut...p?authorid=412

It's all about hand washing!


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
not reading the whole thread but seriously? I am surprised that so many are freaked out. I thought MDC has surpassed media sensationalism.









I like this commentary: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103521172

Me too









Even with my DD's lung issues, I can not bring myself to be overly worried about this.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...utbreak-source

Quote:

The state government of Veracruz in eastern Mexico has confirmed one case of swine flu in the village of La Gloria with the sufferer named locally as a four-year-old boy, Edgar Hernandez Hernandez. The federal government said tonight that he tested positive for the same strain of the virus which has claimed lives in Mexico.

Wow.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I was wondering how flus pass from animals to humans? Does Monsanto genetically modify them or something?


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

I am not particularly terrified of this, though I will be a little cautious and keep an eye on the happenings, as well as use it as an opportunity to make sure I am eating healthy (which I have been slacking on lately). According to the media, we should all be dead of mad cow disease (well, really Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease), SARS, the avian flu, anthrax, and all the other "OMG we all might die any minute!" blips on the media radar.

I was wondering one thing, though. I had the Taiwan flu when I was younger (about 20 years ago), which was an influenza A H1N1. I don't know if that exposure would help or hinder me if I happened to catch this newer one, being that it does funky things with the immune system. Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain.

But the problem is that technically, flu season is "over". So the fact that in a matter of days, the number of cases is doubling or tripling, indicates more than a regular flu. There are many questions to this. I read a good article but I lost the link that asks why the deaths in Mexico and not here.

Edited: Here is the Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/he...8docs.html?hpw

it addresses it as a possible bias and that we are not concentrating on hospitals as much as they are there. I will try to find the link again. It also talks about the bind the CDC and governments are in. If this is "nothing" and it peters out, then this will be hysteria and panic all for naught. But if it does spread uncontrollably, and the CDC and various governments don't alert the public, then they will be held accountable. It is sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't position for health officials to be in right now.

Also, it's more than a new strain. It's a strain that's a combination of FOUR different viral genetic material. It is a viral pea soup and very unusual.

Quote:

Preliminary testing of viruses from the first two patients shows that they are very similar. Additional testing is ongoing with the newer isolettes. We know so far that the viruses contain genetic pieces from four different virus sources. This is unusual. The first is our North American swine influenza viruses. North American avian influenza viruses, human influenza viruses and swine influenza viruses found in Asia and Europe.
http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2009/t090423.htm

Because the virus is a reassortment virus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassortment) , the long term fear is if this continues to spread, and well into summer, then next fall and winter, when the new flu season starts, we could have one heck of a virus on our hands if it continues to mutate.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
I was wondering one thing, though. I had the Taiwan flu when I was younger (about 20 years ago), which was an influenza A H1N1. I don't know if that exposure would help or hinder me if I happened to catch this newer one, being that it does funky things with the immune system. Any thoughts? Thanks!

I think it has no bearing on your risk now. Your previous illness would not provide any long term immunity. People can get the flu over and over. Because Flu viruses are particularly prone to mutation, what you might have had once may be nothing like what is in circulation today. This is why people are so alarmed at this given that it's genetic material is from 4 different genetic elements.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I was wondering how flus pass from animals to humans? Does Monsanto genetically modify them or something?









people work with the pigs in those CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operation). the animals live in such filth and squalor that they are perpetually sick and doused with antibiotics.....it is not surprising that this outbreak occurred
I don't understand why the media doesn't even mention this!!


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Dr. Mayer Eisenstein of HomeFirst is hosting a free webinar on Wednesday night to address the Swine Flu.

He's an MD who practices in the Chicago area who supports homebirth, no vaccines, etc.

http://www.homefirst.com/


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I live in the Bay Area. I just read that a case has been confirmed in Sacramento. Bummer. So now it is in Northern California. I live in a 80% predominantly Mexican community. I emailed DH this morning and told him to just go home and not go anywhere in town. We work in a different town so I told him to shop there and and only go home to sleep. I am in Florida right now and am a bit freaked out about traveling home in a week as the plane goes through Texas.









I would say too, that DH and I likely had the flu this February. DD was sick but well within 3-4 days. We were really ill for a week. I was hit hard with chills, fever and aches. Makes me wonder... was it just regular flu or have there been cases around during flu season and it just was passed off as regular flu?

But if it seemed no different than a "regular flu", is there really any reason to panic? Does your February flu now seem somehow worse if you think it might have been swine flue?


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## mariag (Feb 21, 2004)

thought this might add some insight to the discussion

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/...ogy-primer.ars

I think I agree you don't need to freak out, but I also think that its always prudent to be aware of risks and know what you can/should do to keep your family as healthy and safe as possible.
best,


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## Rikki Jean (Jul 15, 2005)

I really don't know if this thread has helped me to feel more comforted about this issue, or more freaked out.









Here I was loading up my family on more supps than usual, and now I'm off to read the links about why that's a bad idea...







: We're in southern California, and our county was listed on the news tonight as the next place to get hit big, but I'm trying not to freak out about it _too_ much. It's still a little scary, even if I do look at it as the media overreacting as usual.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rikki Jean* 
I really don't know if this thread has helped me to feel more comforted about this issue, or more freaked out.









Here I was loading up my family on more supps than usual, and now I'm off to read the links about why that's a bad idea...







: We're in southern California, and our county was listed on the news tonight as the next place to get hit big, but I'm trying not to freak out about it _too_ much. It's still a little scary, even if I do look at it as the media overreacting as usual.

OMG stop watching the news.









I predict that people get all kinds of sick from worrying about it. There is a mind body connection that we dont acknowledge.


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

One of my good friend's husband has a best friend who is an MD with a PHD who specializes in infectious diseases. He's not worried and he doesn't think anyone else should be freaking out either. That dude knows more than me about this, and certainly more than the hysterical media.


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## paakbaak (Jan 24, 2007)

hola mamas! i live in Mexico, yes MEXICO. not everyone is infected and we are not dying left and right. people that have died, entered the hospital with neumonia already. if you have symptoms, go to the hospital. period. that´s it.
would you take antibiotics for anything? NO. so don´t take tamiflu for a cold. go to the hospital first. you guys have a good health system, good hospitals...you go in, they take blood sample and you´ll get the results in a little while! dont take antivirals, just the same as you wouldn´t take antibiotics for a cough.
i´m not a doctor, i just live in mexico city...i think that´s enough right?!!!

wash and desinfect your hands, go outside, parks, just try playing in the trees and running, bikes, etc, not on the playground. desinfect baby´s hands, but tha´t it.

if any of you take homeopathic remedies, my kid´s ped and my homeopath sent us OSCILLOCOCCINUM, one tube every 8 days, half a tube for kids. and then INFLUENZINUM 2OO, 10drops, 3 times a day for 3 days. we are now taking it once a day and will keep taking it for a while! lots of vitamin C, natural juices.

have fun!


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Hype, hype, hype. Apparently genocide in Darfur has lost its news-appeal.







:

transformed, I agree with EVERYTHING you're saying. Wash your hands regularly, try to stop the nail-biting habit, and go on with life.

hapy2bamama - can your ped move to PA and be MY ped?? I think I'm a little in love with him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Ok, I just looked up when we were sick (I had posted about possible pneumonia in dh on a different board). It looks like dh first got sick on March 20th, got better over the weekend, and then was down and out starting again on Monday the 23rd. He thought he had pneumonia, had a fever, etc. I got sick the following weekend - started on Friday the 27th. Basically the same thing for me. Ds#1 and ds#3 both got sick about the same time I did - both with fever. So, a bit earlier than April, but with the same symptoms they are putting out with this one and the same knock-you-on-your-butt for a while. Hmm ... we typically never get sick, and definitely usually have nothing like this (dh ended up taking 4-5 days off over the stretch of 2 weeks between him and I both being sick).

DH and I both got the flu for the firs time in our LIVES this year - knocked us out for a week and we were weak/snotty/no voice for another 2 after we stopped shaking and fevering. I think it's just been a bad flu season.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EVC* 
Yes, and here is my REAL fear about all of this. People are going to start taking Tamiflu left and right. And what do viruses do when you attack them with anti-virals? The mutate and get STONGER. I understand people with flu wanting to take Tamiflu, especially in this case where there have been a number of deaths, but what on earth are we going to create? Not to fear monger, but I do fear that the worst is yet to come....

Now, that I can believe. People panic, do stupid things, and screw themselves over. We just need to stay sane, be smart about basic hygiene, and this too shall pass - hopefully uneventfully.


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## voicegrrl (Aug 17, 2007)

I was just going to mention homeopathic remedies, glad you did paakbaak. I had the flu while pregnant last year and didn't realize it until I took my daughter in the next week with the same symptoms as me and she tested positive. I cut my illness down to about 4 days by starting Aconitum Napellus 30c the day I got sick, then switching to Gelsemium Sempervirens 30c. I didn't start my daughter on those remedies right away because she got sick as I was still healing and I was out of it and she was sick for over a week, I managed to keep my other 2 children from getting it by using the remedies. I don't think we would have gotten sick, but we were immune compromised, we'd just moved into a 100 year old house that had a serious dust overgrowth and possibly mold and who knows what else. I use those 2 remedies for every viral infection and they have healed us over and over again. Great to add to your natural medicine cabinet!

And thank you for the WHO website and the actual numbers of confirmed cases. That was very enlightening. I'm a member of the media so I can tell you, it's not about news, it's just about web hits.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

_Possible_ first two US deaths:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...oner-says.html


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

You what's scaring me about this? Not this particular hog.bird.people flu, but how little control we would have if this was actually something horrific. Like Ebola, or something more deadly.

With air travel and people's refusal to sit still we'd be doomed.

That's what scares me. This isn't scaring me so much, and I'm surprised with the OCD and all that I'm not sealed up in my panic room. (I don't really have one.







)


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

The irresponsible and bad reporting in this country is







: me.


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## celestialdreamer (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
The irresponsible and bad reporting in this country is







: me.

yep!!!


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## mommathea (Apr 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
Having just come back from a week in mexico (puerto vallarta), I guess I should be more worried than I am, but really, I'm more worried about all the panic this is causing people. this is no where near a pandemic yet, only a few cases, and people are freaking out.

I guess working as a nurse, I see all the nasty bacteria out there and that truly is more frightening to me. it used to be that bugs like C.Diff, MSRA and VRE were only in the old with immune-compromised systems, but now I see it in the postpartum unit. Or in people with simple infections that are strong, otherwise healthy young people.

I think those things are things we need to be worried about, but it seems that we tend to buy into whatever is in the news at the moment. And the mass panic it's causing already with less than 100 people in the US having it, is just crazy.

yes, there might be a big outbreak of the flu. yes, it's a new strain. Yes, we should prepare. But it is not causing a high death rate in the US, and the normal, yearly flu kills more than 36K each year! And how many children have died from just getting their vaccines and the complications that follow?

I am pretty certain we had the flu this year and last, in fact, we seem to get it every year and we have been very, very sick. I don't want to get the flu again, but I know it's a certainty that I will, either now or in the future. But I don't panic about it day and night. That wouldn't make sense.

I hope people take a step back, turn off the tv and computer for a day or two, and get a little reality. Go out, enjoy the day, live normally, and don't worry about something you can't control anyway.

I see people buying masks left and right, but they are being misused anyway. If you have a mask on to protect you, then use your hands to put it on and off, adjust it, etc. and better yet, take if off and leave it to wear the next day, it's totally useless!!! You are going to get whatever you touched on there anyway!

Just my opinion, I realize everyone has an opinion on this. but the truth is, no one knows much about this virus, and the public can't do much anyway!


Thank You!!! You covered my thoughts exactly!

Even the common flu mutates yearly, that's why flu shots are such a shot in the dark (no pun inteded). So yea, the swine flu is going to mutate, the avian flu is going to mutate. I feel horrible about those who have lost their lives, but I'm not going to get excited and quarentiene myself and my kids, change our daily habits.
I will be more diligent about stocking up on nessesities to make sure I have stuff on hand to servive the world shutting down, just like it was supposed to happen on 1-1-00, not to would be irresponsible, but no panic, no worry. Just going on with life as normal.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Though I can respect the idea of staying clear of large crowds and making sure to stay home if one is sick, I find this article on MSNBC about "social distancing" a bit alarming.

Quote:

Slowing the spread of a swine flu epidemic in the United States could well depend on how quickly communities can empty schools, close day care centers and shut down public gathering spots - and on whether ordinary people are willing to stay away from their neighbors.
This part, though, really seemed to make a point of all this media attention in the first place:

Quote:

Longini's models figured a compliance rate of about 60 percent, which allows some latitude for human nature. "It depends on *how afraid they are*," Currie noted.
Basically, they want to instill deep fear within us, hoping then we'd voluntarily quanrantee ourselves for what seems to be an unspecified amount of time.

Quote:

The measures are intended to slow spread of disease during the *several months* it could take to *manufacture and distribute a vaccine effective against the new strain of the H1N1 swine flu* - or any other new virus.


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## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

Two "probable" cases in here in SC. This is two counties away from us. I'm not freaking out but we're going to be cautious!

http://www.wspa.com/spa/news/local/a...results/17028/


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

At the risk of sounding alarmist...I'm supposed to go on vacation to NC in two weeks....I'm worried that maybe I should consider cancelling....Have there been confirmed cases there?


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamama* 
I always have a tonic called "fire cider" on hand. It is a concoction made with apple cider vinegar, horseradish, onion, peppers, garlic, and herbs. Most germs hang out in the back of the throat and this stuff works! I would take it everyday if I was worried about getting flu.

Can you post directions on making this? I haven't read all the way thorugh this thread yet, so I apologize if that's been done already.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
_Possible_ first two US deaths:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...oner-says.html

hmmm, I didn't know one could diagnose themself with lymphoma?







does that mean he had swollen glands?


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Though I can respect the idea of staying clear of large crowds and making sure to stay home if one is sick, I find this article on MSNBC about "social distancing" a bit alarming.

This part, though, really seemed to make a point of all this media attention in the first place:

Basically, they want to instill deep fear within us, hoping then we'd voluntarily quanrantee ourselves for what seems to be an unspecified amount of time.

neither my mom nor my mil will travel outside the country because of fear of terrorists and sicknesses. Its really sad because I know they had both dreamed of the day they would visit Paris and other destinations....and now that they have the $$, well - I just really hate the brainwashing in this sick society.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._boosting.html


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainbowmoon* 
hmmm, I didn't know one could diagnose themself with lymphoma?







does that mean he had swollen glands?

I believe they mean he had cancer, and told them that when he went to the hospital. Like it was previously diagnosed, not self-diagnosed. That's more along the lines of the usual fatalities in flu illnesses though, young, old, compromised immune systems.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cersha* 
At the risk of sounding alarmist...I'm supposed to go on vacation to NC in two weeks....I'm worried that maybe I should consider cancelling....Have there been confirmed cases there?


DH too wants to schedule a vacation in several weeks...I'm concerned about it too. Because I don't think people really know exactly what we're dealing with.

Personally, I'd like to wait and see how things just pan out before I make any short term plans. I know most here are optomistic, I'm taking more of an attitude of caution.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
But if it seemed no different than a "regular flu", is there really any reason to panic? Does your February flu now seem somehow worse if you think it might have been swine flue?

I am not panicking but I am concerned. I think the main issues for me is that we are not really in the flu season anymore. And that the virus has reassorted itself with so much genetic material. See previous post. And that it is hitting a quite different population than we typically see with flu cases.


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## Crazybean (Apr 24, 2008)

It's not that I'm "scared" of the flu itself, I'm scared of the "unknown" and it's hard to sort through all the BS and find the facts. Some sites are under-reporting, others are over reporting making it sound like people are dropping like flies. There was an article that said there is a possibility that it has arrived in Orlando, FL but it wasn't confirmed yet. (I was expecting this since we have cruise ships everywhere and a lot of tourists here). I live close to Orlando and I'm a RN... so I'm on edge not knowing what to believe.
I just want FACTS but I know that's impossible from the media right now.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paakbaak* 
would you take antibiotics for anything? NO. so don´t take tamiflu for a cold. go to the hospital first. you guys have a good health system, good hospitals...you go in, they take blood sample and you´ll get the results in a little while! dont take antivirals, just the same as you wouldn´t take antibiotics for a cough.

Yes, I do take antibiotics. There is a time and place. Not for the common cold though. And the CDC on Monday just sent out test kits for this virus. Health centers have not yet had it. I would not take antivirals as preventative, but if I were diagnosed with swine flu, I probably would take Tamiflu depending on how sick I was.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazybean* 
It's not that I'm "scared" of the flu itself, I'm scared of the "unknown" and it's hard to sort through all the BS and find the facts. Some sites are under-reporting, others are over reporting making it sound like people are dropping like flies. There was an article that said there is a possibility that it has arrived in Orlando, FL but it wasn't confirmed yet. (I was expecting this since we have cruise ships everywhere and a lot of tourists here). I live close to Orlando and I'm a RN... so I'm on edge not knowing what to believe.
I just want FACTS but I know that's impossible from the media right now.

The Miami Heald confirmed it this morning, then retracted it stating it's not "confirmed" and are awaiting the 24- 48 hours to get back the confirmation. It is in a tourist, who lives in Mexico who is vacationing in Disney.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
Yes, I do take antibiotics. There is a time and place. Not for the common cold though. And the CDC on Monday just sent out test kits for this virus. Health centers have not yet had it. I would not take antivirals as preventative, but if I were diagnosed with swine flu, I probably would take Tamiflu depending on how sick I was.

If it takes 24-48 hours to get confirmation that it is swine flu, and tamiflu only works if taken in the first 48 hours I wouldn't doubt that anyone with flu like symptoms is going to take it.

Already people are hoarding the antivirals....







.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

That's what I don't get. How are they hoarding it? Doesn't a doc have to prescribe it?

I just heard that NYC is actually up to several hundreds of cases. 68 kids called in sick at one school. Though hard to say if they did so due to flu or perhaps parents keeping them out. So unconfirmed info.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I am not panicking but I am concerned. I think the main issues for me is that we are not really in the flu season anymore. And that the virus has reassorted itself with so much genetic material. See previous post. And that it is hitting a quite different population than we typically see with flu cases.

The way this virus works is different than our regular seasonal flu. And, in Mexico out of the reported cases the death rate was something like 9.5-10%. And, apparently the highest death rates are among age groups with the 'strongest' immune systems (unlike the season flu where infants and the elderly are most at risk, and even then the death rate is only .2% for those infected).

I worry about it too because I feel like all of us are pretty much worn out here at the house...we all just went through an intestinal bug. My nutrition has been crappy, did the brat diet to recover along with electrolyte. solutions....


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

Supposedly 5 people have been hospitalized in NY with death likely.







I am not one to panic, but am debating whether or not to take my daughter to her tumbling class. It is the germiest place around, lol.


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## tylerdylan (Aug 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Actually, the fatalities have been in healthy adults, 20-45 years old. That's apparently one of the things that's really concerning the experts.

That's what's freaking me out too! DS is 4 and is undergoing chemo for a brain tumour. He is not only a young child, but has a compromised immune system. If healthy people are dying from this what happens if my already sick little boy catches this. We are in the hospital every Monday for his treatments. I wonder if there is a way to get a nurse to come do his chemo at our house so we can stay far away from the hospitals....will have to look into that.
I worked in a hospital through the SARS epidemic in 2003 in Toronto. I wasn't as freaked out about that as I am about this only because I didn't have children in 2003. SARS was apparently more deadly, but this swine flu has me very nervous.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
That's what I don't get. How are they hoarding it? Doesn't a doc have to prescribe it?

I just heard that NYC is actually up to several hundreds of cases. 68 kids called in sick at one school. Though hard to say if they did so due to flu or perhaps parents keeping them out. So unconfirmed info.

I watched the CDC conference. Well, the school where they have 100+ suspected cases has been closed apparently (that one is in queens). They're not 'confirmed' but suspected. So, we'll see. Though they did say that human-human transmission apparently is happening rather easily. One reason why they raised their level of alert (or whatever that is called).

I'd rather have people be overly cautious personally. They sent notices home from school trying to reassure everyone that nobody had been confirmed as infected at our school. Sigh.


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## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

And my children are now coming down with flu symptoms..What the heck? Coughing, fever, headache, etc. I mean-I know it's VERY unlikely that it's swine flu but still. Ugh. We're staying home for the time being. Yuck!!


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## kittynurse (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazybean* 
It's not that I'm "scared" of the flu itself, I'm scared of the "unknown" and it's hard to sort through all the BS and find the facts. Some sites are under-reporting, others are over reporting making it sound like people are dropping like flies. There was an article that said there is a possibility that it has arrived in Orlando, FL but it wasn't confirmed yet. (I was expecting this since we have cruise ships everywhere and a lot of tourists here). I live close to Orlando and I'm a RN... so I'm on edge not knowing what to believe.
I just want FACTS but I know that's impossible from the media right now.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
The Miami Heald confirmed it this morning, then retracted it stating it's not "confirmed" and are awaiting the 24- 48 hours to get back the confirmation. It is in a tourist, who lives in Mexico who is vacationing in Disney.

This is *so* not what I want to hear. We are headed to Disney for a family vacation in 3 weeks







. The kids are soooo excited (and, I admit, so are we). We will be crushed if it gets cancelled.

Crossing my fingers that this all blows over before we are due to leave. Maybe there will be the added benefit of shorter lines if people are still freaked out and stay away!

Martha

ETA: Well, forget what I just said, there have been cases confirmed in my province now so what difference does it make if we get it here or in Disney?


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
That's what I don't get. How are they hoarding it? Doesn't a doc have to prescribe it?

Oh, it's very easy to call your primary care physician and request a prescription *just in case*. Apparently the inlaws did it (going on vacation).


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

So I drove to the US today- border lines on both sides are practically nothing. All the people who work selling food and tourist items and changing money were in masks, but the USBP and their mexican equivilents were not (except the mexican military, who always wear ski mask type masks). I saw several people in San Diego wearing masks - mostly older people who looked like they might have existing health problems. Driving home, I noticed a lot of people walking down the street wearing masks - enough to make me wonder if I'm crazy for not wearing them LOL - people had them on little kids, especially, even if they weren't wearing them themselves. The streets are quiet, very little traffic. The peso, which was gaining some ground against the dollar, has dropped back a lot in the last few days (which is, admittedly, good for my family who earns a living in dollars, but not good for most Mexicans who earn in pesos). The preschool across the street still seems to have kids there, despite the national order for closures of both schools and day cares, although there seem to be a lot fewer children (and really, what are people who need to go to work to make a living do without childcare?). I heard that factories are giving some sort of innoculation to their workers, but since there is no vaccine, one has to wonder what the hell those poor people are being injected with.


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
DH too wants to schedule a vacation in several weeks...I'm concerned about it too. Because I don't think people really know exactly what we're dealing with.

Personally, I'd like to wait and see how things just pan out before I make any short term plans. I know most here are optomistic, I'm taking more of an attitude of caution.

We planned the trip months ago...and now it's only two weeks away. I suppose that two weeks is a long time...and I wouldn't be worried at all, except for the change in the way this flu seems to be behaving...


----------



## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tylerdylan* 
That's what's freaking me out too! DS is 4 and is undergoing chemo for a brain tumour. He is not only a young child, but has a compromised immune system. If healthy people are dying from this what happens if my already sick little boy catches this. We are in the hospital every Monday for his treatments. I wonder if there is a way to get a nurse to come do his chemo at our house so we can stay far away from the hospitals....will have to look into that.
I worked in a hospital through the SARS epidemic in 2003 in Toronto. I wasn't as freaked out about that as I am about this only because I didn't have children in 2003. SARS was apparently more deadly, but this swine flu has me very nervous.

(hug) That must be so scary. I'm sure you can get a nurse to come to your home.


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tylerdylan* 
That's what's freaking me out too! DS is 4 and is undergoing chemo for a brain tumour. He is not only a young child, but has a compromised immune system. If healthy people are dying from this what happens if my already sick little boy catches this. We are in the hospital every Monday for his treatments. I wonder if there is a way to get a nurse to come do his chemo at our house so we can stay far away from the hospitals....will have to look into that.
I worked in a hospital through the SARS epidemic in 2003 in Toronto. I wasn't as freaked out about that as I am about this only because I didn't have children in 2003. SARS was apparently more deadly, but this swine flu has me very nervous.

That would scare me too. I would definitely see if a nurse could come. With a compromised immune system, you can't be too careful.


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## japonica (May 26, 2005)

I've been reading and listening as much as I can the past couple of days and a few things strike me...

-we don't know what the deal was with the Mexican deaths...underlying immune issues? People can look "healthy" but have undiagnosed immune deficiencies etc. Heck, my DH had "walking pneumonia" for months and went undiagnosed because he thought he just had a seasonal allergy cough. So, why all the deaths in Mexico and not as many here?

-why are the cases here presenting as "mild" and many are not even hospitalized. Some people they interviewed who confirmed positive for it didn't even know they had the flu...

-people who start taking tamiflu as a preventitive measure run the risk of increasing this strain's resistance and won't that be helpful...

Yes, it does seem to spread easily but as many of the confirmed cases are recovering at home and many not even on antivirals, then I don't think it's a panic situation yet...of course, I wouldn't fly right now...too much germ swapping and no fun trying to keep a mask on kids the whole flight.


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## lilya'smum (Mar 25, 2009)

All of this is failry scary if you ask me. There are some people that live in Mexico City and they're not panicking, while others like my inlaws live there and are taking all the necessary precautions.
My brother in law is a doctor and he said that they're not revealing the real number of infected and deceased, why would they do something like that? If that's true that is, of course.
Schools are closed over there untul further notice. Now I don't think this is small and that people are overreacting, teh yhave the right to be panicked.


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:

Already people are hoarding the antivirals....

Please tell me why this is so wrong? I got some just incase,btw if you dont have insurance it was 100.00 dollars..Seriously what if this got bad and all the ER's were full and people couldnt get this,the pharmacy was out....Alot of us here have herbs/vitamins,sodium asorbate in case of emergency right?What is wrong to have this?Somehow I feel guilty saying I got some and dont know why....


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

I don't think it's wrong, but it reminds of me of all the people buying Cipro in New York City just in case they got anthrax. I thought it was unnecessary and a total product of unnecessary panic.


----------



## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquafina* 
Please tell me why this is so wrong? I got some just incase,btw if you dont have insurance it was 100.00 dollars..Seriously what if this got bad and all the ER's were full and people couldnt get this,the pharmacy was out....Alot of us here have herbs/vitamins,sodium asorbate in case of emergency right?What is wrong to have this?Somehow I feel guilty saying I got some and dont know why....









I don't know that anything is *wrong* with it...though it would be lousy if someone who had it couldn't find the medication. For liability purposes though pretty much any doctor I'll bet would prescribe it if you asked.


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Well if its media hype and people like myself are scared then the pharma company is making some good money right now.......Personally I hope I am just overreacting about this flu but you just never know how it can turn out.....


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquafina* 
Please tell me why this is so wrong? I got some just incase,btw if you dont have insurance it was 100.00 dollars..Seriously what if this got bad and all the ER's were full and people couldnt get this,the pharmacy was out....Alot of us here have herbs/vitamins,sodium asorbate in case of emergency right?What is wrong to have this?Somehow I feel guilty saying I got some and dont know why....










It's wrong because there is a *limited supply* and you have taken some of that supply and you don't even know if you need it.

I'm extremely surprised you were able to obtain a "just in case" rx. I can't believe doctors are doing this.


----------



## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
I'm extremely surprised you were able to obtain a "just in case" rx. I can't believe doctors are doing this.

Believe it...because they are! In fact, I was reading an article online and at the end it basically said 'if you're concerned call your doctor for a prescription'. Sigh.


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## brennasmom (Oct 10, 2004)

*Please tell me why this is so wrong? I got some just incase,btw if you dont have insurance it was 100.00 dollars..Seriously what if this got bad and all the ER's were full and people couldnt get this,the pharmacy was out....Alot of us here have herbs/vitamins,sodium asorbate in case of emergency right?What is wrong to have this?Somehow I feel guilty saying I got some and dont know why*

Because you don't need it and it might not be available for someone who does. Not a big deal for one or two doses but if everyone went out and got in "just in case" there would be none left for the people who really need it. This sounds like a little hysteria to me.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
Believe it...because they are! In fact, I was reading an article online and at the end it basically said 'if you're concerned call your doctor for a prescription'. Sigh.

I just called my kids doctor office and asked if they could prescribe antiviral flu meds and they said absolutely not. Big shock.

Doctors that are doing this are really unethical if you ask me. I did hear on one of the morning programs that doctors were calling in prescriptions for family members. Nice if you have a doctor in the family I guess.


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## Pandme (Jan 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquafina* 
Well if its media hype and people like myself are scared then the pharma company is making some good money right now.......Personally I hope I am just overreacting about this flu but you just never know how it can turn out.....

Where are you located? Are you in Texas or Southern California or in a place where there are confirmed cases?


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:

It's wrong because there is a limited supply and you have taken some of that supply and you don't even know if you need it.

I'm extremely surprised you were able to obtain a "just in case" rx. I can't believe doctors are doing this.
Well cant return it at this point....I just want to be healthy for my kids thats all I was thinking of with getting this.....I personaly feel its smart to get it.But everyone feels diffrent about this.....I am sure there are quite a few people that will refuse it,so I am sure it evens it out.....

Yeah I am suprised as well.A few Dr's told me no but,one did it after I got my yearly checkup....


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## Aquafina (Oct 2, 2006)

LOL nope I am on the Wyoming/Idaho border.......My ds father is in san antonio texas btw and travels here alot.....I just want to be prepared the media states its spreading,there is alot of travel from mexico to Idaho....


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## barefoot mama (Apr 30, 2006)

Can someone answer this for me? Why does the WHO's official statement say that there are 26 confirmed cases and 7 deaths in Mexico and my local news says there have been something like 159 deaths? I couldn't find anything the CDC said about Mexico. Both organizations seemed to agree on numbers outside of Mexico (VERY small), with zero deaths.

Where is the disconnect?

For the record, I am not afraid of it. I am afraid of widespread panic though.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

What are people dying of, really? Is it dehydration caused by the swine flu? Trying to gather info...

...also worried a bit about next month's trip to SF, CA and wondering if we should cancel our flights. I don't like to over-react but I have to admit, I'm a little skeered.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barefoot mama* 
Can someone answer this for me? Why does the WHO's official statement say that there are 26 confirmed cases and 7 deaths in Mexico and my local news says there have been something like 159 deaths? I couldn't find anything the CDC said about Mexico. Both organizations seemed to agree on numbers outside of Mexico (VERY small), with zero deaths.

Where is the disconnect?

For the record, I am not afraid of it. I am afraid of widespread panic though.

Deaths confirmed to be swine flu vs. deaths suspected to be swine flu.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaraBoo* 
What are people dying of, really? Is it dehydration caused by the swine flu? Trying to gather info...

.

usually pneumonia (secondary infection to the flu)


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I just heard that NYC is actually up to several hundreds of cases. 68 kids called in sick at one school. Though hard to say if they did so due to flu or perhaps parents keeping them out. So unconfirmed info.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/ny....html?_r=1&hpw


----------



## barefoot mama (Apr 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Deaths confirmed to be swine flu vs. deaths suspected to be swine flu.

So, is it the media who decides which are suspect? Or someone else?

It seems very irresponsible to me to report as fact something that someone is only guessing at. So far we have had four "suspected" swine flu cases in my area. All of the tests have come back negative. So how many of the other suspected cases were something else?


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

for a country who prides itself on being informed, there are a lot of "suspected X" and "unconfirmed Y" going on. I don't know how much I trust the media.


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## swissmiss2584 (Dec 29, 2007)

If this flu is causing healthy immune systems to over produce and cause inflammation then the key is to take garlic for the antiviral properties and Turmeric for anti-inflammatory, antimicrobial, antioxidant. It inhibits white blood cells" response to inflammatory triggers. Decreases release of inflammatory chemicals.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

.


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## gruver (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aquafina* 
LOL nope I am on the Wyoming/Idaho border.......My ds father is in san antonio texas btw and travels here alot.....I just want to be prepared the media states its spreading,there is alot of travel from mexico to Idaho....

there are THREE confirmed cases in the san antonio area (not even in bexar county actually) and everyone is recovered.

this media hysteria is giving me a freakin headache.


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## familyblackout (Dec 12, 2008)

How much Tumeric would be appropriate to take?


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Yup, like the two "suspected" deaths in CA earlier...which turned out not to be related to swine flu. How annoying, not to mention fear-mongering.







Oh, and the headlines of "killer bug" and so on...even if it had a 10% mortality rate (which I think it's much less since probably many mild cases are unreported/untested), that would be much lower than other killer bugs out there among us already. And then the media throws in to make us feel better that "some cases" in the US needed no medical treatment (um, I think that would be most cases). I could go on, needless to say I am highly annoyed by the "news" people.


----------



## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

(clears throat)

Stress is an immune system depressant.

That is all.


----------



## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

What bugs me is all the people who are claiming this is no big deal and instead of "freaking out", they will continue to travel, contract the disease and then pass it on to someone else.

What if you're wrong, huh? Then it will be too late.







You will have done your part in spreading it around.


----------



## japonica (May 26, 2005)

Quote:

(clears throat)

Stress is an immune system depressant.

That is all.








:

Haven't we all been living under the threat of avian flu for what, 5 or more years now. And we had SARS here too (in my country) and we're still around.

Not to make overly light of what could be a serious situation, but what can you do? Aside from stocking up on either medication or herbs (and whatever else you want to stockpile if that's your thing), then what...we sit in a bubble and wait? We stop going out? We cancel all holidays, trips to the mall, family get togethers, pull our kids out of school? You can prepare if you'd like, be cautious, but then you have to live your life. As health officials here said today, we could be in for the long haul. It could come in waves...the first bit now, then back in the fall and winter...that's a long time to hide in the house and self-quarantine ourselves out of worry.

Yes, it is possible you or someone you know could get it. And yes, you could get sick. And it might be miserable (or it might not be different from any other flu you had). You might even end up in hospital, who knows. But the likelihood is that you'd recover (even with folks bandying about a supposed 9-10% fatality rate--I don't believe it's that high here, we've got 13 cases, most recovered or recovering and not a single death yet. So, still assuming that's a valid figure, that's still 90-91% chance you'll come through okay).

It's funny...for some of us who don't vaccinate, we're told all the time by peds that our kids are courting death by not having their shots...that they could die from tetanus or diphtheria at any moment, yet we know better. Just breathe, everyone...


----------



## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
I watched the CDC conference. Well, the school where they have 100+ suspected cases has been closed apparently (that one is in queens). They're not 'confirmed' but suspected. So, we'll see.

The 68 I heard about was in ADDITIOn to the 100+. It was on FOX. The guy who interrupted his news report to air the CDC conference interrupted it at the end as he was irritated that the CDC conference was not reporting the additional 100 or so that are allegedly out there. He is actually saying that it is in the couple hundreds. I believe he said the new cases were from the initial group of students that closed the first school.

ETA: I don't even have cable at home but I am in Florida visiting my mom and they have it. So I am suckered into CNN and Fox when the TV is on!


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
(clears throat)

Stress is an immune system depressant.

That is all.

I never read the Time or NEwsweek article, but wasn't there some stuff in one of their issues that stress is actually an immune system enhancer? To a degree of course.


----------



## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barefoot mama* 
Can someone answer this for me? Why does the WHO's official statement say that there are 26 confirmed cases and 7 deaths in Mexico and my local news says there have been something like 159 deaths? I couldn't find anything the CDC said about Mexico. Both organizations seemed to agree on numbers outside of Mexico (VERY small), with zero deaths.

Where is the disconnect?

I suspect that it is 7 confirmed swine flu death cases and the rest of the deaths are flu or flu complication deaths, but not necessarily confirmed swine flu as the cause.


----------



## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *japonica* 







:

Haven't we all been living under the threat of avian flu for what, 5 or more years now. .

um, avian flu hasn't reached the stage of human-to-human transmission. avian was a theoretical threat whereas this one is actually doing what they were afraid avian was going to.

i'm not freaking out but i'll minimize my contact with folks for a couple of weeks to see how it plays out, not sure what the harm is in that?







oh yeah!! our stumbling economy might tank.... guess i'd better get spending!


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## Mommyintraining2 (Dec 17, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts. But I got this email link today and was encouraged by it. All about protecting the family naturally.

http://drfeder.com/


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *japonica* 







:

Haven't we all been living under the threat of avian flu for what, 5 or more years now. And we had SARS here too (in my country) and we're still around.

Not to make overly light of what could be a serious situation, but what can you do? Aside from stocking up on either medication or herbs (and whatever else you want to stockpile if that's your thing), then what...we sit in a bubble and wait? We stop going out? We cancel all holidays, trips to the mall, family get togethers, pull our kids out of school? You can prepare if you'd like, be cautious, but then you have to live your life. As health officials here said today, we could be in for the long haul. It could come in waves...the first bit now, then back in the fall and winter...that's a long time to hide in the house and self-quarantine ourselves out of worry.

Yes, it is possible you or someone you know could get it. And yes, you could get sick. And it might be miserable (or it might not be different from any other flu you had). You might even end up in hospital, who knows. But the likelihood is that you'd recover (even with folks bandying about a supposed 9-10% fatality rate--I don't believe it's that high here, we've got 13 cases, most recovered or recovering and not a single death yet. So, still assuming that's a valid figure, that's still 90-91% chance you'll come through okay).

It's funny...for some of us who don't vaccinate, we're told all the time by peds that our kids are courting death by not having their shots...that they could die from tetanus or diphtheria at any moment, yet we know better. Just breathe, everyone...

Thank you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I never read the Time or NEwsweek article, but wasn't there some stuff in one of their issues that stress is actually an immune system enhancer? To a degree of course.

Only for as long as the "fight or flight" rush lasts - which I don't think will help with something like the flu.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hopesmommy* 
What bugs me is all the people who are claiming this is no big deal and instead of "freaking out", they will continue to travel, contract the disease and then pass it on to someone else.

What if you're wrong, huh? Then it will be too late.







You will have done your part in spreading it around.

So what should we do? Ground all the planes? Close the borders? Cancel school nationwide? Close businesses?

Or we could practice basic hygiene, make sure we're eating our veggies and taking our probiotics, and go about our lives, hoping that it's just like all the other recent "gonna kill ya" scares.

I'm going for #2.


----------



## BeingMe (Oct 25, 2006)

Thought I should post this from Mark Sircus's letter on the swine flu....

"Please, I beg people to be aware that in November of 2005 Japan's health ministry issued a warning of dangerous behavioral side effects linked to the anti-influenza drug Tamiflu. This came amid reports that several children in Japan died after taking the medication. Dr. Rokuro Hama, head of the Japan Institute of Pharmaco-Vigilance, had investigated eight suspicious deaths of children aged between two and 17, which he thinks are linked to Tamiflu. He reported his findings at a meeting of the Japan Society of Pediatric Infectious Diseases. Investigators say in one case last year, a 17-year-old boy, after taking the medication, left his home during a snowstorm, and jumped in front of a truck and died. Earlier that year, a 14-year-old boy, after taking one Tamiflu capsule, jumped or fell from the ninth floor of an apartment building. Doctors say in both cases the boys had not exhibited any abnormal behavior before taking Tamiflu.14

Drug manufacturer Roche and US regulators have warned that influenza patients treated with oseltamivir (Tamiflu) may have an increased risk of self-injury and delirium. "People with the flu, particularly children, may be at increased risk of self-injury and confusion shortly after taking Tamiflu and should be closely monitored for signs of unusual behavior," says a warning that Roche has added to its official product information, according to a company letter posted on the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Web site.15

Many reputable doctors and health activists are weighing in and we should be very scared for some very good reasons. Read Dr. Sherri Tenpenny's essay. Read Bill Sardi's pdf. Read the Huntington Post's essay on the dire economic effect and the implications of declared health emergencies. The medical industrial complex and governments around the world are ready, willing and able to use this as an excuse to attack the human race with misinformation and extremely dangerous drugs and vaccines. Remember Dr. Eleanor McBean?

Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PlayaMama* 
um, avian flu hasn't reached the stage of human-to-human transmission.

Actually, it did. There was one case of a child getting it from his relative. But it was an isolated case, and occurred right at the end of the avian flu hubub.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I never read the Time or NEwsweek article, but wasn't there some stuff in one of their issues that stress is actually an immune system enhancer? To a degree of course.

um no. That is not right.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Well, I went to work today at the hospital, and everyone was very normal there, no panic at all. i guess nurses have a different mindset, I mean we work with REALLY scary bugs daily, so another scary virus just means we all might have to work more! We see people die daily in the hospital, hear all kinds of unbelievable horror stories, see parents suffering when they lose a baby, and I think it helps us keep things in perspective. I have worked through terrible flu crisises when the schools were shut down, and yet, no panic!

I am just back from mexico, and according to what I read, the incubation period is 4 days, so I should be in the clear today. I feel horrible for the mexican people, i can't imagine, their economy is taking a huge hit because of panic, and many work day to day for tips and such. So many are suffering due to media propaganda that otherwise intelligent people are buying into, and probably more will die from the consequences of that than this flu itself.

If you really want to get freaked out and scared, visit your local hospital and/or clinic. Just today alone, on the women's unit and postpartum unit, we had VRE, MRSA, active Herpes outbreaks, multitude of STD's, AIDs, and a baby who has some kind of infection, not sure until cultures come back.

That's the daily scary stuff going on and yet no one is raising the alarm and we really should be, these are resistant bugs! That's scary!!!!

My own daughter, who is 14 in 2 days is horribly ill, AGAIN. She has had a horrible year, with chronic stomach pain, then appendicitis (which we knew for 2 weeks, but couldn't get anyone to operate, another thing to be frightened about,the lack of good medical care in this country, as a nurse, I am much more afraid of going the hospital and them killing me with incompetence, I see it daily!).

Anyway, she never recovered from appendicitis, had really strong antibiotics, which she did need, but now she is having horrible problems, probably a small partial bowel obstruction and lots of horrible tests, especially for 14. yo

She became ill with a nasty ear infection last friday, has been on antibiotics and has gotten progressively worse. She is going in tomorrow and very well may be having drainage done and may be admitted for IV antibiotics since it seems to be a resistant type of bug. She was begging for me to call an ambulance tonight and crying that she was dying from the pain.

tomorrow she is supposed to have a colonoscopy to try to find her blockage. then maybe more surgery to fix it, not sure if we will have to postpone it. right now,she's on clear liquids, but can't swallow for the past few hours.

Now, if people want to be scared, there's plenty of things out there that are happening, we just don't see it. I forget off the top of my head how many people die from hospital error. And it can happen to anyone, anyone can get sick, get in a car accident, etc.

please don't cancel vacations and such over such a small number of illnesses, that doesn't even make sense logically.

i am saddened that we are creating such fear and panic and letting our kids see how we react. we are scaring them and causing stress in young children, that's just not responsible. I feel terrible for little kids running around with masks (which i mentioned in my last post were useless anyway because people really don't know how to use them, I'm almost amused when I see a kid wearing it, with his hands all over it, come on people!!!)

That's my rant for tonight. I spent a lovely day working with no news or talk about the flu, then went to a baseball game, and then home to care for someone who truly is sick. And yet, no panic, no fear spreading, no illogical thinking, it was nice, people need to turn off tv, some searching internet, and get on with life. There's already talk about what this stress is doing to people both physically and mentally, think about what we are doing to our kids!!!!


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Social Stress Boosts Immune System's Flu-Fighting Ability:

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/flumice.htm


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
Social Stress Boosts Immune System's Flu-Fighting Ability:

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/flumice.htm









I disagree.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
um no. That is not right.

Not chronic stress. Anyway, the article was in Newsweek. http://www.dailytrojan.com/opinion/n...ness-1.1603446

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine...nk-29-36697-1/


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## mamatoakd (Jun 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hopesmommy* 
What bugs me is all the people who are claiming this is no big deal and instead of "freaking out", they will continue to travel, contract the disease and then pass it on to someone else.

What if you're wrong, huh? Then it will be too late.







You will have done your part in spreading it around.


There are lots of nasty viruses, diseases, etc. passed around every day due to travel. It's just a fact of life. We seem to catch something every winter when we travel back East.

This may be a big deal or it may not. In the meantime, I have family traveling by plane to come and see us today. If we're all going to get sick anyway, I'd rather spend my time with the people that I love doing the things we enjoy. Based on what I witnessed while out and about today (in an area that is currently dealing with swine flu), I'd say that most people agree with me.

Wash your hands, get plenty of rest and stay hydrated.


----------



## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 







I disagree.

Yes, it is easy to. As they end the article with, "Curiously, similar work by Padgett, Sheridan and their Ohio State colleagues has shown that social stress can reactivate a latent herpes simplex virus type I in mice. HSV-1 causes cold sores around the mouth, and lesions on the face and genitals in humans."

but I still find it interesting.


----------



## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Or we could practice basic hygiene, make sure we're eating our veggies and taking our probiotics, and go about our lives, hoping that it's just like all the other recent "gonna kill ya" scares.

I'm going for #2.

It depends. If you are ok with everyone getting sick, then i would go the Hope route.

However, if you are not okay with several hundred people becoming ill with the flu all within 2-3 days, then in areas with known cases, yes, I say shut things down.

Here is the current state of New York City. It started with what, 7 or so kids? And now over several hundred in a matter of days?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This may NOT be a pandemic. But it is spreading at lightening speed. If you are ok with everyone just getting sick because so far, knock on wood, no one has died, then yes, hope might by a good approach.

If I lived in an area with that many becoming ill, I say close schools. There is a 2 year old in the hospital and my daughter, who is also 2, is sick right now after just having flown across country right when this started. I am sure she just has a cold, but ..... but..... the mom in me is watching her like a hawk. I cannot imagine her going to the hospital for the flu right now.


----------



## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

I'm suppose to be going to central america next week. I don't know what to do. I am actually not too afraid of contracting anything- although costa rica, panama, and colombia all have suspected or confirmed cases- I am actually more afraid of being detained or otherwise held on the way back into the USA-- or if there are border closures or stuff like that-- not sure what to do







:


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
It depends. If you are ok with everyone getting sick, then i would go the Hope route.

However, if you are not okay with several hundred people becoming ill with the flu all within 2-3 days, then in areas with known cases, yes, I say shut things down.

Here is the current state of New York City. It started with what, 7 or so kids? And now over several hundred in a matter of days?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This may NOT be a pandemic. But it is spreading at lightening speed. If you are ok with everyone just getting sick because so far, knock on wood, no one has died, then yes, hope might by a good approach.

If I lived in an area with that many becoming ill, I say close schools. There is a 2 year old in the hospital and my daughter, who is also 2, is sick right now after just having flown across country right when this started. I am sure she just has a cold, but ..... but..... the mom in me is watching her like a hawk. I cannot imagine her going to the hospital for the flu right now.

I'm in New York City. That article you linked above is out of date already. It's in two schools in Queens, 1 where a large group of students went to Mexico on spring break; and 1 where several siblings of the spring break students attend. The one in Manhattan was a false alarm-they have regular old flu, not swine flu.

On Friday, the Dept of Health investigator was stuck in traffic and by the time he arrived at the first Queens school, most of the kids had been picked up by their parents already. So he tested the 7 or 8 students who were still around. Hence 7 cases. When their parents took the others to the hospital, there were a few dozen. There were about 100 students at that school with reported fevers during the week. So... presumption is that they all had swine flu. It's not that there were new cases among those students though, they just caught up with the sick ones to do testing. That's scary enough. 80 students were absent today after 12 had fevers at the siblings school yesterday. They might be sick, or their parents might have kept them out of school because of fears. The 2 year old in the hospital in the Bronx went to Mexico, as did the woman in Brooklyn. So right now, it is kind of isolated to people who either went to Mexico or are related to the Spring Break students at St. Francis.

It seems to me that it's not actually spreading as fast as I feared; ie-someone you pass on the street or in the drug store; more like people you live with or students in close daily contact with one another. We've been laying fairly low, although DH is still going to work; the sitter is still coming. DD didn't have school for a couple of days anyway. We skipped extracurriculars. Not sure if I'll keep DD home tomorrow or not yet.

In other news that makes me happier, my DS seems about done with his long-lingering cough. It's been weeks, and he hasn't had a fever or appetite loss or any other flu-ish symptom, but still I'm glad that it's tapered off.


----------



## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

There's one confirmed case of swine flu in Indiana - Norte Dame student. She recovered though.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...n-indiana.html

I live in IN. I'm waiting to find out if it spreads, or if they proactively close the school or what. Dd1 had just gotten over being sick with a cough, dd3 is sick with a cough but doesn't go to school, dd2 goes to preschool at 2 different schools, putting her in contact with two different sets of germy preschoolers. Blech.


----------



## MommaMoo (Nov 16, 2005)

Just a silly observation-pork fat is high in Vitamin D, which is great at warding off the flu. So us omnivores can eat swine to ward off swine flu...

That is all


----------



## MrsJez (Apr 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommaMoo* 
Just a silly observation-pork fat is high in Vitamin D, which is great at warding off the flu. So us omnivores can eat swine to ward off swine flu...

That is all









lol! ..nice!

Can someone help me with my math?

I took the 2498 cases of swine flu that have been reported in Mexico and divided it by Mexico City's estimated approximate population of 8million. That makes what - a .0031 infection rate? (These are spotty numbers, I know. I'm just looking for a bit of perspective though.) Then there's an approximately 6% chance of dying if you do get it. (159 deaths, 2498 cases)

Yep - I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure this isn't nearly as serious as the media is making it out to be.

Btw - thanks to everyone for sharing links and information for immunity boosting and flu fighting. Good stuff!


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsJez* 
lol! ..nice!

Can someone help me with my math?

I took the 2498 cases of swine flu that have been reported in Mexico and divided it by Mexico City's estimated approximate population of 8million. That makes what - a .0031 infection rate? (These are spotty numbers, I know. I'm just looking for a bit of perspective though.) Then there's an approximately 6% chance of dying if you do get it. (159 deaths, 2498 cases)

Yep - I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure this isn't nearly as serious as the media is making it out to be.

Btw - thanks to everyone for sharing links and information for immunity boosting and flu fighting. Good stuff!

I believe there's still also the question of if those 2498 cases are just the serious ones and cases that didn't require treatment beyond standard home care flew under the radar. There could well be a million cases in that situation. I know the 1600 number from yesterday or so was coming from the number of people who had sought treatment for an illness with those types of symptoms at a hospital. Someone who went to their family doc early in April and got better or someone who was never sick enough to go to the doc aren't likely to be reported I bet.


----------



## MrsJez (Apr 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I believe there's still also the question of if those 2498 cases are just the serious ones and cases that didn't require treatment beyond standard home care flew under the radar. There could well be a million cases in that situation. I know the 1600 number from yesterday or so was coming from the number of people who had sought treatment for an illness with those types of symptoms at a hospital. Someone who went to their family doc early in April and got better or someone who was never sick enough to go to the doc aren't likely to be reported I bet.

Aah. Ok. I guess I can see how it could be spreading more than we think.

BUT - if there are so many cases going under the radar because people aren't getting "sick enough" to head to the hospital, then it still kind of makes me wonder what the panic is all about... I dunno.


----------



## Rikki Jean (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommaMoo* 
Just a silly observation-pork fat is high in Vitamin D, which is great at warding off the flu. So us omnivores can eat swine to ward off swine flu...

That is all



















We had pork chops for dinner. My mom said, "Oh my gosh, aren't you worried about getting swine flu?"


----------



## philia (May 6, 2007)

Tomorrow evening our family is suppose to go to an event that is outside but most of the time is spent in a crowded tent. The kids just had a a virus last week with a runny nose still. There is no SF in our state but there is in the states on either side of us. Would you take your kids ? Let me know either way.
Philia
P


----------



## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

The flu is rampaging through my house. All three of my sons, the little girl who is staying with us (she's three) and one of my partners are all sick. It started on Monday morning and we've had direct contact with people who have recently been to Mexico. I'm not worried in the least, though (except I'd really like to not catch it myself, but there's not much I can do about that). DS1 was the first to get sick, and he's already starting to feel better. Whether it's the swine flu or just the 'regular' flu, I'll probably never know.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
Well, I went to work today at the hospital, and everyone was very normal there, no panic at all. i guess nurses have a different mindset, I mean we work with REALLY scary bugs daily, so another scary virus just means we all might have to work more! We see people die daily in the hospital, hear all kinds of unbelievable horror stories, see parents suffering when they lose a baby, and I think it helps us keep things in perspective. I have worked through terrible flu crisises when the schools were shut down, and yet, no panic!

I am just back from mexico, and according to what I read, the incubation period is 4 days, so I should be in the clear today. I feel horrible for the mexican people, i can't imagine, their economy is taking a huge hit because of panic, and many work day to day for tips and such. So many are suffering due to media propaganda that otherwise intelligent people are buying into, and probably more will die from the consequences of that than this flu itself.

If you really want to get freaked out and scared, visit your local hospital and/or clinic. Just today alone, on the women's unit and postpartum unit, we had VRE, MRSA, active Herpes outbreaks, multitude of STD's, AIDs, and a baby who has some kind of infection, not sure until cultures come back.

That's the daily scary stuff going on and yet no one is raising the alarm and we really should be, these are resistant bugs! That's scary!!!!

My own daughter, who is 14 in 2 days is horribly ill, AGAIN. She has had a horrible year, with chronic stomach pain, then appendicitis (which we knew for 2 weeks, but couldn't get anyone to operate, another thing to be frightened about,the lack of good medical care in this country, as a nurse, I am much more afraid of going the hospital and them killing me with incompetence, I see it daily!).

Anyway, she never recovered from appendicitis, had really strong antibiotics, which she did need, but now she is having horrible problems, probably a small partial bowel obstruction and lots of horrible tests, especially for 14. yo

She became ill with a nasty ear infection last friday, has been on antibiotics and has gotten progressively worse. She is going in tomorrow and very well may be having drainage done and may be admitted for IV antibiotics since it seems to be a resistant type of bug. She was begging for me to call an ambulance tonight and crying that she was dying from the pain.

tomorrow she is supposed to have a colonoscopy to try to find her blockage. then maybe more surgery to fix it, not sure if we will have to postpone it. right now,she's on clear liquids, but can't swallow for the past few hours.

Now, if people want to be scared, there's plenty of things out there that are happening, we just don't see it. I forget off the top of my head how many people die from hospital error. And it can happen to anyone, anyone can get sick, get in a car accident, etc.

please don't cancel vacations and such over such a small number of illnesses, that doesn't even make sense logically.

i am saddened that we are creating such fear and panic and letting our kids see how we react. we are scaring them and causing stress in young children, that's just not responsible. I feel terrible for little kids running around with masks (which i mentioned in my last post were useless anyway because people really don't know how to use them, I'm almost amused when I see a kid wearing it, with his hands all over it, come on people!!!)

That's my rant for tonight. I spent a lovely day working with no news or talk about the flu, then went to a baseball game, and then home to care for someone who truly is sick. And yet, no panic, no fear spreading, no illogical thinking, it was nice, people need to turn off tv, some searching internet, and get on with life. There's already talk about what this stress is doing to people both physically and mentally, think about what we are doing to our kids!!!!









The truth is much scarier than any fiction the news can come up with.

It's convenient how this flu nonsense is pushing the latest economic troubles onto the back pages of the news reports, isn't it?


----------



## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommaMoo* 
Just a silly observation-pork fat is high in Vitamin D, which is great at warding off the flu. So us omnivores can eat swine to ward off swine flu...

That is all

















My 5yo said it can't be the swine flu unless you oink, and no-one's oinking. (except the news reports, they're oinking like crazy. I say it's high time we make them into pork chops







)


----------



## Chakra (Sep 7, 2006)

silver!!!!

that stuff is amazing. I just ordered extra...


----------



## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

We use silver too.







I think it's why my son is already getting better after less than 48 hours. That stuff is amazing. It cut the duration of our illnesses by about 80%. We're usually healthy again in just two or three days, even from nasty stuff.

I *LOVE* my silver!


----------



## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30471035/


----------



## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amila* 









http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30471035/









So sad for his family.


----------



## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsJez* 
Aah. Ok. I guess I can see how it could be spreading more than we think.

BUT - if there are so many cases going under the radar because people aren't getting "sick enough" to head to the hospital, then it still kind of makes me wonder what the panic is all about... I dunno.

I think there are a few factors that have the CDC and WHO worried about it (based on what I have read on their own websites and listening to their podcasts... especially the WHO podcasts).

1. Viruses are unpredictable in the way the mutate. In one generation of the flu it could be mild, then a carrier could introduce a gene to mutate the virus into something more lethal. Right now in the US, if people contract it, it seems to be mild just like the Spanish Flu was in 1918 at the beginning. But that flu turned lethal a few months later. Other viruses in other years have not turned fatal or fizzled. They are completely unpredictable.

2. Being brand new, 100% of the population is susceptible to coming down with it if exposed because there is no natural immunity to it. With other flu viruses, they've been around a while so perhaps there is only 20% of the population that would susceptible to existing viruses at any given time.

3. In Mexico, it has been fatal in young, healthy people like the Spanish flu. Back then, when the healthy bodies reacted to produce the antibodies to fight it off, it caused a cytokine storm that killed them. This could be what is happening in Mexico. At least there, it has behaved unlike the seasonal flu, which kills the weak, not the strong. But why? Mutations, environmental, cytokine storms? Another unknown.

Those are my thoughts on it. I'm certainly not panicking, as I'm as prepared as I can be for something like this and other disasters that can happen in life from nature to economic to man-made and I am armed with knowledge. That's all I can do and I can sleep at night, so...


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
I believe there's still also the question of if those 2498 cases are just the serious ones and cases that didn't require treatment beyond standard home care flew under the radar. There could well be a million cases in that situation. I know the 1600 number from yesterday or so was coming from the number of people who had sought treatment for an illness with those types of symptoms at a hospital. Someone who went to their family doc early in April and got better or someone who was never sick enough to go to the doc aren't likely to be reported I bet.

Well, I'm not going to panic about an illness that, in the vast majority of cases, does not even require a doctor's visit for recovery.

Coming up next week, the COMMON COLD PANDEMIC! Close the schools, shut down the airports


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chakra* 
silver!!!!

that stuff is amazing. I just ordered extra...

Do you have links with more info on this? I've never used it and it scares me a little.


----------



## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Well, I'm not going to panic about an illness that, in the vast majority of cases, does not even require a doctor's visit for recovery.

Coming up next week, the COMMON COLD PANDEMIC! Close the schools, shut down the airports

















:


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Do you have links with more info on this? I've never used it and it scares me a little.









:

Especially since I read about the man who turned blue from silver.


----------



## jenmichelle99 (Jul 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amila* 









http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30471035/

That is terrible.

oy, my mom is going to be freaking out even more now. i'm not seeing anywhere that it says *where* in Texas this was. She probably wont be up for a while, maybe there will be more info then. and maybe its not in dfw.


----------



## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

The department of Health and Human Services is now recommending that everyone keep a two week supply of food and water at home as well as medications:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/psa/planning.htm

Quote:

Health officials are concerned about a new influenza virus of swine origin that's spreading from person to person. Officials are acting to combat this threat, but the outbreak might grow. So be prepared.

Store a two-week supply of food and water. Have two weeks of your regular prescription drugs at home. Keep health supplies on hand, including pain relievers and cold medicines.

For more details, visit www.cdc.gov/swineflu or call 1-800-CDC-INFO.

A message from HHS.

But I think this is standard recommendation...we always have an emergency kit here and I think most states have these recommendations at all times as well.


----------



## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:

Well... it seems like every year there is an alarm over a particular strain of flu. Remember when the avian flu was going to wipe out humanity?
I agree with this. On the other hand, I also fear the "boy who cried wolf" phenomenon, whereby people are so used to hearing about flu this and pandemic that, that they don't actually realize when "the big one" is underway and do nothing to protect themselves.

The fact that this flu has killed primarily healthy people is concerning to me, as someone who works in public health.


----------



## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Last night I checked our old "pandemic" stockpile from our living in D.C. days. Some things had expired, so I went to the grocery store to restock. I have a HUGE box of masks, another one of rubber gloves, etc. Honeslty living in D.C. and working in public health is NOT good for one's ability to just roll with things like this, lol.


----------



## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 







:

Especially since I read about the man who turned blue from silver.

Yes - and it is permanent! Completely irreversible!


----------



## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Regarding the US death (from http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/0...nal/index.html ):

Quote:

The 23-month-old child who died from swine flu in Texas had traveled from Mexico to Houston, for treatment, a spokeswoman for the Houston Health Department told CNN.

Kathy Barton said the child, who died Monday, was not an American citizen. She did not know where the child was from in Mexico.


----------



## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsJez* 
Aah. Ok. I guess I can see how it could be spreading more than we think.

BUT - if there are so many cases going under the radar because people aren't getting "sick enough" to head to the hospital, then it still kind of makes me wonder what the panic is all about... I dunno.

Yes it may be spreading fast, but if many thousands (or more) of cases are so mild as to go unreported, that means the survival rate is very high.

Quite frankly, they have one confirmed case of this exact virus as early as February in a town where 1800 people got sick, so it's been floating around for months. This is the one mentioned earlier that is near the pig farm:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/sw...-February.html

Since they supposedly have no cases of sick animals at that farm, I would be curious to know what vaccines they have been giving the pigs, are they "live" vaccines, and could it be shedding into the water? A contaminated water supply could easily account for the numbers of cases and quick spread of this virus in Mexico, and would explain why it's not spreading fast here.

Or it could be spread by insects, as mentioned in this article (flies):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...utbreak-source


----------



## SoCaliMommy (Jun 11, 2004)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/.../med_swine_flu

Quote:

Kathy Barton, a spokeswoman for the Houston Health and Human Services Department, said Wednesday that the child had traveled with family from Mexico to Brownsville in South Texas. The child became ill in Brownsville and was taken to a Houston hospital and died Monday night, she said.
I thought the child lived in Texas but it says he was from Mexico.


----------



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Do you have links with more info on this? I've never used it and it scares me a little.


I have never understood how someone on this board could disdain aluminum and thimerosal in vaccines, and then give their child silver (which does build up in the body).

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery.../silverad.html

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/111/cas...a/wadhera.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/col...silver/AN01682

http://rosemaryjacobs.com/rose1.html


----------



## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

The toddler that died in Texas had been in Mexico so he most likely got it while in Mexico before returning to Texas. It's not like the other people in the US that haven't been in Mexico that got it.


Well it sounds like even more than that, he is Mexican, just visiting the United States. I wonder why the death rate seems so much higher for Mexicans? I hope that they figure that out soon, this is so sad for the little toddler and his family.


----------



## natural4mybabies (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Yes it may be spreading fast, but if many thousands (or more) of cases are so mild as to go unreported, that means the survival rate is very high.

Quite frankly, they have one confirmed case of this exact virus as early as February in a town where 1800 people got sick, so it's been floating around for months. This is the one mentioned earlier that is near the pig farm:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/sw...-February.html

Since they supposedly have no cases of sick animals at that farm, I would be curious to know what vaccines they have been giving the pigs, are they "live" vaccines, and could it be shedding into the water? A contaminated water supply could easily account for the numbers of cases and quick spread of this virus in Mexico, and would explain why it's not spreading fast here.

Or it could be spread by insects, as mentioned in this article (flies):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...utbreak-source

Great points... I have wondered this myself. Because they still can't figure out exactly when/where this originated, makes me wonder if it hasn't already been here for a while and we are just now picking up on this because we just started testing for it. The symptoms are much like the regualr flu and not everyone dies from it, so how do we know the difference?? This previous lack of testing would also create the illusion that it is not spreading as quickly here.

My guess is the more they start testing here, the numbers are going to rise dramtically, maybe similar to mexico. And the number of deaths down there may be skued because healthcare isn't as readily available there as it is here. If they are less likely to seek treatment, or seek it quickly, I would assume higher death rates.


----------



## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Dr. Mercola just posted this:
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic - Fact or Fiction?
I haven't read it yet - it's long and took forever to load.

fp


----------



## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

I've been reading the BBC for news because they just seem less interested in causing alarm than the US media, and the panel of experts seem to be saying that yes this might make many people sick, but it doesn't seem to be a very dangerous virus at this point. That's really paraphrasing, but that's what I took from the article I read.

I have zero reason to think this, but I'm thinking that maybe this virus is very, very common and the death rate is tiny compared to the regular flu. I would take precautions like not traveling to Mexico, but as far as changing my families activities, not yet.


----------



## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Dr. Mercola just posted this:
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic - Fact or Fiction?
I haven't read it yet - it's long and took forever to load.

fp

I couldn't load it either when I got the e mail this morning.


----------



## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

It finally loaded for me - I could copy and paste it here - but is that kosher?


----------



## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
It finally loaded for me - I could copy and paste it here - but is that kosher?

Kosher up to 100 words....
Here's a text counter...
http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/...untwords.shtml


----------



## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWren* 
Kosher up to 100 words....
Here's a text counter...
http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/...untwords.shtml









That's great.
100 words per post?

It's a pretty long article.


----------



## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

100 words period.


----------



## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWren* 
100 words period.

Yeah, I figured. No worries I'm not going to post it.

fp


----------



## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

It's loaded for me now as well....


----------



## SoCaliMommy (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GearGirl* 
Well it sounds like even more than that, he is Mexican, just visiting the United States. I wonder why the death rate seems so much higher for Mexicans? I hope that they figure that out soon, this is so sad for the little toddler and his family.


Makes you also wonder why did that family think it was safe to come to the US to visit when they should have know what was going on in Mexico with as many cases having been reported there.


----------



## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MotherWren* 
I couldn't load it either when I got the e mail this morning.

It's really nothing more than what people on here have already said. Beating a dead horse to death (not a pandemic, "they" will push us to vaccinate, etc). It's not necessary to re-post.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

Makes you also wonder why did that family think it was safe to come to the US to visit when they should have know what was going on in Mexico wioth as many cases having been reported there.


Seriously? My folks are in Mexico now, should they not come home? Or is it just Mexicans who shouldn't cross the border?


----------



## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Dr. Mercola just posted this:
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic - Fact or Fiction?
I haven't read it yet - it's long and took forever to load.

fp

that was amazing, it loaded for me in about 30 seconds, I definitely suggest reading it. Here is an excerpt:

"Just a couple of months ago, scientists concluded that the 1918 flu pandemic that killed between 50-100 million people worldwide in a matter of 18 months -- which all these worst case scenarios are built upon -- was NOT due to the flu itself!4

Instead, they discovered the real culprit was strep infections.

People with influenza often get what is known as a "superinfection" with a bacterial agent. In 1918 it appears to have been Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Since strep is much easier to treat than the flu using modern medicine, a new pandemic would likely be much less dire than it was in the early 20th century, the researchers concluded"

Another point made is that many people - read big pharma - are going to get very rich off of our panic.

I just can't buy into the panic at all yet, but I'm definitely interested in all the news!


----------



## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

Makes you also wonder why did that family think it was safe to come to the US to visit when they should have know what was going on in Mexico wioth as many cases having been reported there.



well let's say they knew he was sick, wouldn't you want the best care for your child? We may not have great healthcare, but it is better than you are going to find in most of Mexico. I would have crossed the border for my toddler.


----------



## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Dr. Mercola just posted this:
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic - Fact or Fiction?
I haven't read it yet - it's long and took forever to load.

fp

very interesting.


----------



## SoCaliMommy (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Seriously? My folks are in Mexico now, should they not come home? Or is it just Mexicans who shouldn't cross the border?


I ment that their child was probably showing signs of swine flu before they probably left mexico go to texas they probably should have stayed in Mexico and got their child medical attention instead


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

It sounds like they travelled to get medical attention. Which as a PP said, I would do also if my child's life was at risk. And I would hope that American medical people would know to prevent contagion.


----------



## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

Makes you also wonder why did that family think it was safe to come to the US to visit when they should have know what was going on in Mexico with as many cases having been reported there.


All the articles I've seen have stated that he had been brought to the US _for treatment_. Yes, he was the first US death, but it was known that he had the flu because he was taken to the US to be treated for the flu.


----------



## japonica (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
Yes - and it is permanent! Completely irreversible!

That guy was doing a daily dose of it. I have no idea why anyone would want to. And the doctor on the program with him said it was reversible if he stopped. He refused.

I only use it to treat illness...have done so for years. No blue people here.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

I ment that their child was probably showing signs of swine flu before they probably left mexico go to texas they probably should have stayed in Mexico and got their child medical attention instead

If I was in Mexico and knew that my child had a higher likelihood of dying in Mexico than in the US and it was suspected that the health care in Mexico might be one reason, sure as heck I would be getting to the US for medical care for my baby. Even if it didn't work, I would have felt like I did everything I could.


----------



## calebsmommy25 (Aug 23, 2008)

Highly recommend reading, it is very intersting. I hope you can get it to load!

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...Swine-Flu.aspx


----------



## japonica (May 26, 2005)

I'm in Canada, in Alberta where we have 2 confirmed cases, both mild, recovering at home.

The province's Chief Medical Officer of Health was on the radio this morning as an update...no new cases, still just the 2 confirmed...and he said most of the people who have been tested since Monday have either parainfluenza, another strain of A (not the H1N1) or just plain bad common colds. So, there's a lot of hysteria going on when we just aren't seeing the numbers here. And we have had a lot of direct flights to and from Mexico (well, until the airlines closed all flights now). What's interesting is when we had SARS here back in 2003, people didn't seem to be overreacting as much as they're doing now. And we had what, 44 deaths...then the virus just petered out...


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SoCaliMommy* 

I ment that their child was probably showing signs of swine flu before they probably left mexico go to texas they probably should have stayed in Mexico and got their child medical attention instead

I live in Mexico, and if my kids were showing symptoms, I'd drive the US for treatment, too. I'm American, though, so I doubt anyone would question that.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

The toddler was already in the US prior to contracting the flu, and due to the 4 day incubation period, there's probably 0 chance he was exposed in Mexico. I'm guessing he was exposed on the plane or in the US....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/...wine_flu_death


----------



## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Yeah, he contracted it in Brownsville and was then transported here to Houston, where he died.


----------



## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

Hmm. This makes it sound confusing though:

The boy, who was nearly 2 years old, arrived in the border city of Brownsville with "underlying health issues" on April 4 and developed flu symptoms four days later, the Texas Department of State Health Services said.


----------



## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aran* 
Yes - and it is permanent! Completely irreversible!

This man?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317564,00.html


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Tf9iAD97S7UPG2

(sorry if this has already been posted. I didn't see it posted, though.)


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

Well that doesn't make much sense. Why is Egypt slaughtering pigs when they don't have any cases of swine flu, there is a swine flu vaccine for pigs, and it's a human/bird/swine flu combo, not just a swine flu?


----------



## MyZymurgy (Mar 6, 2007)

I think the young toddler boy who passed had other health issues he was getting treatments for in the U.S. -- then came down with swine flu after he was already here.

That was my understanding. But you know how news stories are always iffy when they first come out. Until the details get sorted, I think some stations just make stuff up. *coughFOXSUXcough*

It is always heartbreaking to hear about a baby dying... whether you think too much is being made from it in the media or not, it is still someone's little sweetheart that is gone. (I know everyone here gets that... I'm just stating the obvious because that's what I like to do in times of uncertainty.)


----------



## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miss Information* 
This man?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317564,00.html

I don't know about that particular person (wow is he blue!), but as part of my work, I know about the condition - argyria - permanent bluish or blue-gray skin discoloration from silver exposure. It's purely cosmetic, but still, dramatic!


----------



## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

Argyria is not reversible.


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Does anyone explain to me how the vaccine are made in general? I mean, not just the vaccine for flu, but any vax. Using eggs were common before. I have heard of using monkey's kidney, etc, but do they use any part of pigs for making vaccine?? Why is this virus jumping from pigs to human? Which is now pandemic from human to human.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

So, to sum up, "swine flu" is simply a particular strain of influenza, thus named because some pigs were carrying it?

So this "super-scary" swine flu should respond to regular flu treatments such as high doses of vitamin C, raw garlic, and elderberry extract?

Why exactly is there such a rush to get conventional medical treatment when you're exposed to the flu? What can MDs do for this? Drugs to further weaken the immune system? I understand the antibiotics if there truly is a co-infection, and IV fluids to treat dehydration, but if you're not dealing with either of those complications, is there any point to seeing an MD?


----------



## swissmiss2584 (Dec 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *familyblackout* 
How much Tumeric would be appropriate to take?

A ND recommend 400mg for anti inflammatory use.


----------



## Ophelia (Feb 16, 2005)

Dr. Tenpenny says this:

http://drtenpenny.com/swine_flu.aspx

Good hydration with alkaline water, sleep, Vit D/C/A."
However, on another thread, it indicated that the flu (and also the 1918 epidemic?) actually killed healthy people with a GOOD immune system and it has to do with the immune system going into overdrive, and 'cytokines'.

So, if a person supported their immune system with those supplements and others including elderberry, etc. would that help push the immune system into overdrive and make things worse, or would it help fight the flu? I'm confused about that because I don't know anything about 'cytokines'.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Here's something interesting which may shed some light about swine flu not being as rare as previously thought--even in combination with other viruses. It also gives a touch of insight as to how veterinarians diagnose and treat Swine Flu in hogs. From 'National Hog Farmer' web site. An article from September 2008 which includes 3 case studies. The author is a DVM in Ohio:

http://nationalhogfarmer.com/health-...e-flu-problem/

from the above link: "Swine Influenza Virus (SIV) continues to evolve. During the last decade, many strains commingled with genes from avian, human or swine species to create new swine flu strains."

Be sure to check out case study #2, the 3rd paragraph where the author writes about all the sick farm employees and flu in local schools. His tone implies that either the humans spread flu to the hogs or vice-versa, though he doesn't say either thing...


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Ophelia - Apparently elderberry isn't so great for the cytokine issue. Here is a site that talks about herbs/supplements that may help out:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

Although, I don't think anyone knows for sure if this is happening with the current swine flu. We don't know about the medical history or living conditions of those that have died yet, and I have read of people in other countries that tested positive for swine flu and in the prime age range for a cytokine storm (20-40) having mild symptoms and recovering fine. I don't think there is enough data yet in that regard.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Does anyone explain to me how the vaccine are made in general? I mean, not just the vaccine for flu, but any vax. Using eggs were common before. I have heard of using monkey's kidney, etc, but do they use any part of pigs for making vaccine?? Why is this virus jumping from pigs to human? Which is now pandemic from human to human.

I can't begin to understand all this, but I'm sure that others here can. I'm putting a link to this on the vaccine discussion on this as well:

http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/2...ng-siv-viruses

I believe that it does say that this study is using inactivated virus (not live), which probably answers my question about shedding and contaminated water supply. It could be just the flu itself spread from pigs into the water, though, not a vax.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:

People with influenza often get what is known as a "superinfection" with a bacterial agent. In 1918 it appears to have been Streptococcus pneumoniae.








: Mercola is using an extremely sensational and moreover scientifically weak argument here (and that's putting it nicely). That's like saying no one really dies of AIDS, because they die of pneumonia or infections etc. That's what flu deaths ARE... complications and secondary infections (such as pneumonia, sepsis, etc.). So saying "no one really died of flu... it was strep" is completely misleading... _even if it's true, which it isn't_, which brings me to...

Many people died in 1918 shortly after their symptoms appeared - sometimes only hours afterwards. Healthy, young people. That's because the virus multiplied so quickly and their lungs flooded with fluids produced by their healthy immune systems, and they essentially drowned in their own froth.







NOT the symptoms of a bad strep throat, by the way, which takes weeks to kill you.

Quote:

Since strep is much easier to treat than the flu using modern medicine, a new pandemic would likely be much less dire than it was in the early 20th century, the researchers concluded"
Which "researchers" concluded this? I would love to see the links on that. It's a very disturbing conclusion. I would look to modern outbreaks such as H5N1 in China to determine how severe pandemic flu could be even with the "wonders" of modern medicine fully available. Hong Kong has arguably the best, most state-of-the-art laboratories, medical facilities and infrastructure in place to handle pandemics of anywhere in the world, and an alarming percentage of healthy, young people infected with it still died. Likewise, I think there are some unanswered questions about how badly we have messed up the value of antibiotics and other medical treatments. We could be in a situation where the drugs we're giving people are highly toxic in and of themselves, or worse still, utterly useless. In other words, if there is a flu pandemic, people will STILL die.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

What I want to know is what are the chances of me or my family dying should we fall ill with this flu? If we get treatment, which we would, could that be enough?


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

You have a greater chance of dying from the regular flu than swine flu.


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## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
You have a greater chance of dying from the regular flu than swine flu.

or getting hit by lighting for that matter. seriously. well according to the mercola article.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

What exactly does "conventional treatment for the flu" look like? I'm trying to figure out if there's anything an MD can do for influenza that can't be done at home.


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## willowsmom (Oct 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
What exactly does "conventional treatment for the flu" look like? I'm trying to figure out if there's anything an MD can do for influenza that can't be done at home.

Besides getting injected with all the "best" medicine?

Nothing, in my opinion.

A close friend of mine had seizures from Tamiflu... not something I'm willing to subject the family to.


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
You have a greater chance of dying from the regular flu than swine flu.

Says who? Other than the fact that regular flu has been around longer, how can you make this statement?

I am not arguing with the lightning thing. I just think that the above statement is pretty flippant. Everyone is guessing right now.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaraBoo* 
What I want to know is what are the chances of me or my family dying should we fall ill with this flu? If we get treatment, which we would, could that be enough?

I just listened to the Virtual Press Briefing given by Dr. Keiji Fukuda, the Assistant Director-General at WHO and the FACT is that they just don't know how virulent this is now or will become. Period. There is no way anyone can give you a definitive answer to that. Not even the epidemiologists that are working it right now can answer that question. (This question, "what is the virulency of this flu", was asked by a reporter and that was Dr. Fukuda's response, in a nutshell.)


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Suzannah* 
Says who? Other than the fact that regular flu has been around longer, how can you make this statement?

I am not arguing with the lightning thing. I just think that the above statement is pretty flippant. Everyone is guessing right now.

Well, more people die from the flu than from being hit by lightening. So if A (Being hit by lightening = average of 58 per year) < B (Dying from the flu = 1,500 so far) and C (Dying from the swine flu = 1) is < A, than C < B.

So far this flu season there have been 25,925 cases of the flu. There have been 55 reported pediatric deaths. Compared to less than 1,000 swine flu victims world wide and one u.s. death.


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## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
Well, so far there have been less than 1000 deaths worldwide due to the swine flu, there have been more than 15000 deaths this year in the U.S. from the regular flu, both vaccinated and un-vaccintaed. So right now, you have a greater chance of dying from the regular flu, than the swine flu whether or not you are vaccinated.

Yeah, I said other than the fact that swine flu is brand new. Obviously, statistically, you are correct. That's not what the question was, really.


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## zoe196 (Mar 20, 2007)

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this is a repeat but I found this article to be a real eye-opener.

Flying Pigs, Tamiflu and Factory Farming

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=13408

Zoe, mama to Thomas 1/06


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

I think the swine flu is scarier statistics or not because it isn't killing frail people with one foot in the grave- most of the flu death stats come from older people succumbing to secondary infections from flu, swine flu is killing healthy younger people. We all know influenza kills thousands in the US each year, thousands of immuno-compromised and elderly people. Not healthy young people. Swine flu is killing healthy young people. If that doesn't freak your brain I'm not sure what would.

So statistically if I get the regular flu I'm more likely to survive due to my younger age, and if I get the swine flu, I'm in the demographic that dies from it. Not sure what the numbers are, but 10% seems like the safe estimate going off Mexico's stats, which I think are under-reported at this moment.

I think the swine flu may turn out to be no big deal, but right now we don't know that. The unknown is what makes it scarier. IMO.

I'm not freaking out and hoarding antivirals or screaming at people to get away from my front door or wandering around wearing a Michael Jackson getup, but I am staying aware, I don't trust the government to protect me or give me the proper information in a timely manner.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gossamer* 
Well, so far there have been less than 1000 deaths worldwide due to the swine flu, there have been more than 15000 deaths this year in the U.S. from the regular flu, both vaccinated and un-vaccintaed. So right now, you have a greater chance of dying from the regular flu, than the swine flu whether or not you are vaccinated.

Dr. Fukuda specifically mentioned that the Spanish Flu was mild at the end of the flu season, incubated over the summer for the most part, and returned in the fall as killer strain as an example of the fact that you cannot even begin to discuss the nature of these. Viruses are notoriously unpredictable, so there is no way you can even start to evaluate the virulency.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Just got a twitter from NPR that the WHO is raising the pandemic level from 4 to 5 at 4pm today.

WHO page

NPR twitter feed for up-to-minute updates


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Just got a twitter from NPR that the WHO is raising the pandemic level from 4 to 5 at 4pm today.

They're about to give a press conference. MSNBC is saying they are hearing the same thing.


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## mrsbernstein (Jun 17, 2006)

While reading page #13, my bio-dad called to find out if I know how to purchase prescriptions online without a prescription. Fortunately....I do NOT.









I finally was able to get out of him WHAT he wants to purchase....TAMIFLU (well, actually, that other one, Rele____). I couldn't believe it.

First, I lectured him on buying prescription drugs from whoknowswhere and SECOND on the DANGEROUS reactions that he can have.

Quick question: We are supposed to visit my dad and his wife next month. We don't vax or anything. Should I be concerned if my dad is taking Tamiflu or the like while we visit?

Oh...and did I mention my dad's wife is a....DOCTOR!!!

Mrs B


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Just got a twitter from NPR that the WHO is raising the pandemic level from 4 to 5 at 4pm today.

WHO page

NPR twitter feed for up-to-minute updates


what does that mean exactly? is it like the red, yellow and frickin orange levels of terror they put out there?

what is a "pandemic level at 4 or 5"???


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## stellabluz (May 24, 2006)

Flying Pigs, Tamiflu and Factory Farming

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=13408

interesting...sad, we need to re-vamp the entire way we do things around here~Earth.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stellabluz* 
what does that mean exactly? is it like the red, yellow and frickin orange levels of terror they put out there?

what is a "pandemic level at 4 or 5"???

"Phase 5 is characterized by human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region. While most countries will not be affected at this stage, the declaration of Phase 5 is a strong signal that a pandemic is imminent and that the time to finalize the organization, communication, and implementation of the planned mitigation measures is short. "

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian.../en/index.html


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
What exactly does "conventional treatment for the flu" look like? I'm trying to figure out if there's anything an MD can do for influenza that can't be done at home.

Other than the Tamiflu stuff, "conventional treatment" is just treating the symptoms. In a hospital setting, it might include IV fluids for dehydration, endotracheal tube/ventilation for severe breathing problems, and other treatments for secondary complications such as pneumonia and such. Pretty much everything up to an emergency-type situation is better treated at home with fluids, rest, and whatever OTC meds or supplements you prefer, as you would be exposed to less pathogenic germs at home than at a hospital.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I just got back from all our doctor visits with my daughter, who isn't doing very well. But one interesting fact I got in the office is that according to the CDC, in 2005 there were over 60,000 deaths due to flu and pneumonia. and that's reported, I can't stress enough how many deaths are seen that aren't attributed to the flu or pneumonia. It's probably double that or even more, if someone comes in and dies of a heart attack due to the flu or pneumonia, it might not be reported. Most people who get the flu don't go to the doctors, and most causes of pneumonia are viral, not bacterial, so many go unreported.

the level being raised to 5 isn't a concern, and it will most likely be 6 by the end of the week, those levels are in line with the definitions, not a higher risk. A level 6 means it's spread in one community or more, so it's only a matter of time, I heard from a doctor friend that they don't want to cause more panic by skipping levels, so they are trying to pace it because people are already panicking.;

If you want really good information about all kinds of flus, pandemic info, preparations, etc, there is a detailed forum called: FLUTRACKERS.COM

However, please note that there are alarmists and extremists on that site and many post just to stir controversary and further panic, so read with caution.

Thanks for the PM's about my daughter, I appreciate all the thoughts, prayers, etc. She won't be admitted right now, but we had to postpone some of the testing due to her current problems, and then re-evaluate on friday. I did demand pain medication and she took that a little while ago, I hope it will help her rest at least. Thanks again!


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

OH, I wanted to mention about the upcoming vaccines which I posted in the vaccine forum...

There is a HUGE push now to finance and spend money to get the vaccines for this flu and others produced and shipped ASAP. I believe that all of our panic is really just helping this push along.

So the only people going to benefit from our hysteria is the drug companies and vaccine manufacturers. And the fact that they are rushing to get this out means they will be cutting corners on testing and such to get it done.

We should be more afraid of what the ramifications are going to be in the fall. When the state decides to force flu vaccines on our kids and such, when there are long lines in the ER from everyone suffering from a cold and you can't get treatment for a legitimately serious illness (we spent two weeks fighting for surgery for CONFIRMED appendicitis and sat in ER waiting room for HOURS until being sent home because it wasn't serious enough and there were no bed available, now that's scary!!! And it's happening everyday in every city in America and no one is forcing change!!!!)

Everyone needs to really wake up about this, I can't believe that people on here aren't furious that the government is going to be taking so much money and putting it behind the drug companies, money that could be spent on other important health care issues and economy issues, that's where's it's needed. We are only making the rich richer with our panic, we are doing just what they wanted!!! And they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Again, my opinion, but something I think needs to be discussed further to dispel all the panic and hysteria that we ourselves are creating in this country and the world.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Other than the Tamiflu stuff, "conventional treatment" is just treating the symptoms. In a hospital setting, it might include IV fluids for dehydration, endotracheal tube/ventilation for severe breathing problems, and other treatments for secondary complications such as pneumonia and such. Pretty much everything up to an emergency-type situation is better treated at home with fluids, rest, and whatever OTC meds or supplements you prefer, as you would be exposed to less pathogenic germs at home than at a hospital.

OK, that's what I thought. I'll just keep up with the rest, fluids, and my typical "sick day supplement regime" whether or not I'm dealing with a virus that has a special name.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I think the whole thing is just a bunch of fear mongering. You or your children are not any more likely to die from it than you are from the regular ol' flu. And it's not even that widespread. There were 1000 cases in Mexico and 80 deaths (making the chance of dying from this flu less than one percent). I believe there are 50 cases in the US so far, and one death (and it was a boy who was actually from Mexico). You don't even have that big a chance of catching it. Mexico has a population of 100 million and the US has three times that. If this was THAT big of a deal, there would be thousands of cases, not less than 200.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
What exactly does "conventional treatment for the flu" look like? I'm trying to figure out if there's anything an MD can do for influenza that can't be done at home.

From the WHO website

Quote:

*What should I do if I think I have swine influenza?*
If you feel unwell, have high fever, cough and/or sore throat:

Stay at home and keep away from work, school or crowds as much as possible.
Rest and take plenty of fluids.
Cover your mouth and nose with disposable tissues when coughing and sneezing and dispose of the used tissues properly.
Wash your hands with soap and water frequently and thoroughly, especially after coughing or sneezing.
Inform family and friends about your illness and seek help for household chores that require contact with other people such as shopping.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98* 
Geez, another slow news week. They have to use these few deaths, worldwide to generate fears?? (Or, to distract the public from other things going on in the world...)

Pandemic? Oh, please......

Geez, remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an avian flu epidemic after the relatively few cases of same were reported in Asia not too long ago? Remember all those dire warnings about the possibility of an anthrax epidemic after the white-powder-in-envelopes terrorism not too long ago? Remember all those warnings about the possibility of a measles epidemic after the few cases of same were reported in the mid-west not too long ago? Pardon the pun, but those whole scenarios died out, didn't they (but, gosh, they made for great news, for awhile).

I am sorry for those families that have been hit by this illness, I am. But, I'm not worried one bit about this flu or any other flu (in this country or any other). We don't get flu shots. We will not get flu shots, even in the face of an actual epidemic or pandemic (uh-oh, there's that word again). Those that would desire the vaccination will be happy to know there are 5 spare doses of vaccine available, courtesy of my family!

I have more concerns about things like the common Norwalk virus that hits elder care residences (nursing and assisted living homes), causing massive vomiting, diarrhea and dehydration.

Sexually-transmitted diseases are far more common than this (or, other types of) flu. Check out the CDC monthly reported cases of these.

People die from conditions related to obesity, diabetes and heart disease. But, these are so common that they aren't news-worthy anymore.

Same goes with the dangers of cigarettes and their danger to everyone. Why not demand the cessation of their production? Oh, yeah, that would violate people's right to personal pleasure (nevermind what it does to those around them) plus the tobacco lobby wouldn't permit it.









Yet, where is are the DAILY public health warnings about those on the networks newscasts?? Not exactly the stuff CNN leads their broadcasts with, hmmm? Afterall, who wants to hear about old people with vomiting and diarrhea. Or, the mantra about cigarette smoking being bad for you (obviously, nobody reads the small print on a pack before lighting up...)









The reports on the news are all about scare mongering. Keep the public frightened and they will do as they are told.

Looks like it's working.

















:


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## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllyRae* 
Well that doesn't make much sense. Why is Egypt slaughtering pigs when they don't have any cases of swine flu, there is a swine flu vaccine for pigs, and it's a human/bird/swine flu combo, not just a swine flu?

Mass hysteria? Reminds me of a while back when Newcastle's was 'taking over' & the one farmer put all his chickens(30,000) through a wood chipper rather than have them even tested to see if they were sick







Or using a more humane method to euthanize them.


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Ophelia - Apparently elderberry isn't so great for the cytokine issue. Here is a site that talks about herbs/supplements that may help out:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

Although, I don't think anyone knows for sure if this is happening with the current swine flu. We don't know about the medical history or living conditions of those that have died yet, and I have read of people in other countries that tested positive for swine flu and in the prime age range for a cytokine storm (20-40) having mild symptoms and recovering fine. I don't think there is enough data yet in that regard.

Delurking to say Thanks for this, it was very helpful in assesing my med. cabnet!- ok resume debate


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## jplain (Aug 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
There were 1000 cases in Mexico and 80 deaths (making the chance of dying from this flu less than one percent).

80 out of 1000 = 8% mortality rate, which would be a big deal.

However, I believe that the number of mild cases in Mexico has been undereported, because many people weren't sick enough to seek medical attention. I won't be surprised if the actual mortality rate does turn out to be below 1%.

On the other hand, deaths of young healthy people is alarming.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Swine flu is killing healthy young people. If that doesn't freak your brain I'm not sure what would.

So statistically if I get the regular flu I'm more likely to survive due to my younger age, and if I get the swine flu, I'm in the demographic that dies from it. Not sure what the numbers are, but 10% seems like the safe estimate going off Mexico's stats, which I think are under-reported at this moment.

I've just been tagging along, agreeing with this info, but where is this (age-related mortality) info coming from? Anybody have sources?


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## Ophelia (Feb 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Ophelia - Apparently elderberry isn't so great for the cytokine issue. Here is a site that talks about herbs/supplements that may help out:

http://www.bird-flu-influenza.com/re...antivirals.htm

That is EXACTLY what I needed to know, thank you. I don't like to get all my info from one site (in case they are wrong) but I'll go by this for now because I'm not sure how to verify their statements on which ones are good and which ones aren't.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jplain* 
80 out of 1000 = 8% mortality rate, which would be a big deal.

However, I believe that the number of mild cases in Mexico has been undereported, because many people weren't sick enough to seek medical attention. I won't be surprised if the actual mortality rate does turn out to be below 1%.

On the other hand, deaths of young healthy people is alarming.









I lose at math!

I just read that there are now 91 cases in the US, and 1 death. Yes, it has killed relatively healthy people (but the US death was a boy from Mexico and aren't children more likely to die of the flu in general?). We also don't know how healthy he was.

Now I can't find the link that said there were 80 deaths in mexico and 1000 cases. I swear I read it on wiki but it's not there anymore. Perhaps those stats were incorrect.


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## jamsmama (Jul 16, 2005)

"pandemic" = $$$$$$ for big Pharma. Out of how many of the people that died were vaccinated with Tamiflu and the such? Mexico City is one of the most heavily polluted cities in the world, as is NYC and apparently, this is where most of the cases have been. Heavy pollution brings down the immunity. Worry and stress is the worst possible thing you can do for your immunity. Get out in the sun, take lots of Vitamin C and STOP watching the news! Nothing is solid right now, and the mainstream media are masters at hiding most of what is REALLY going on. Take all of the obvious precautions. Sucks that we people have to worry about this on top of a horrible economy, etc, etc, etc.


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## mrsbernstein (Jun 17, 2006)

Please don't flame me for this...

But just because "young" people are dying...that doesn't necessarily scare me..yet.

This day and age, what percentage of those "young" people are actually "healthy young" people? How many are on a SAD diet, smoke, like in smog, yada, yada. GMO food, processed foods and the like do not lead to "health". So I am not sure we should be worried that they are "young"...yet.

Mrs B


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Excellent point, mrsbernstien.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjande* 
I've never heard of Twilight. Woohoo, does that mean I'm not a nerd!?? lol









i need serious help i think. i was more taken by your comment than the actual thread's content. LOL


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

WHO just raised the alert level to 5. Pandemic "inevitable".

I still wonder how much we are not being told.


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## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GearGirl* 
that was amazing, it loaded for me in about 30 seconds, I definitely suggest reading it. Here is an excerpt:

"Just a couple of months ago, scientists concluded that the 1918 flu pandemic that killed between 50-100 million people worldwide in a matter of 18 months -- which all these worst case scenarios are built upon -- was NOT due to the flu itself!4

Instead, they discovered the real culprit was strep infections.

People with influenza often get what is known as a "superinfection" with a bacterial agent. In 1918 it appears to have been Streptococcus pneumoniae.

Since strep is much easier to treat than the flu using modern medicine, a new pandemic would likely be much less dire than it was in the early 20th century, the researchers concluded"

Another point made is that many people - read big pharma - are going to get very rich off of our panic.

I just can't buy into the panic at all yet, but I'm definitely interested in all the news!


One thing that bugs me about Mercola's article, is that he says that these people were dying from secondary strep infections. What I've read says that there were people dying 24 hours after coming down with the flu. I don't think you can develop a secondary infection that quickly. Cytokine storms make a lot more sense. Funny how "Dr." Mercola doesn't mention that.







:


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

From:

http://www.drjaygordon.com/developme...s/swineflu.asp

Just wash your hands.

Every year, hundreds of viruses pass through the pediatric and adult community. Many of the bugs are disruptive and keep kids out of school and adults away from work. Some of the viruses have unique signs and symptoms, but most just cause amorphous aches, sneezing, coughing or intestinal upset.

Influenza viruses, especially new ones, trigger more news stories and can be made to seem much more frightening and dangerous than they really are. Government agencies and media don't supply statistical context and make it sound like you've got a "fifty-fifty" chance of contracting this new virus. They then make it sound like a lot of people who get this influenza end up in the hospital and may die. Statistically, nothing could be further from the truth: The chance that the new virus is really dangerous is small. The chance that you'll get it is much, much smaller, and the possibility that you or a family member will be harmed by the virus is so slim that the news should be on page twenty, not page one.

Swine Flu is a virus for which there is no vaccine, little to no threat to your family, and there are undoubtedly tens of thousands of harmless undiagnosed cases throughout the world. The news stories are probably taking a hundred questionable respiratory deaths in Mexico and guessing.

There actually is a very, very small chance that this virus could cause severe illness and whenever this occurs hospitalization and even fatalities are reported. The likelihood of a pandemic is miniscule, but newspapers, government agencies and the manufacturers of pharmaceuticals do their best work and make their biggest sales when people are scared.

Broadcast media get major sponsorship from the pharmaceutical industry and do not always present the "other side" of the story. Tamiflu is recommended for treatment and prevention of this influenza virus. Local pharmacies are already running low on Tamiflu.

Connect these dots.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/ idUKN2445216420090424

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/tamiflu.asp

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...53O17O20090425

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar....aspx?storyid= 200904251215dowjonesdjonline000319&title=who-says-initial-findings-show- swine-flu-responds-to-tamiflu

The usual boring admonitions apply: wash your hands, stay well-rested and well-hydrated. You do not need to buy Tamiflu. It is an effective antiviral drug but has possible side effects.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/heal...ment/medicine/ medications/tamiflu-psych.htm

As far as our office prescribing Tamiflu, we would rather not, but we will if you insist. I promise you that I personally am purchasing none for my family and would recommend the same to you.

Jay N. Gordon, MD, FAAP

Dr Mercola has also said:

"Honestly, your risk of being killed by a lightning strike in the last five years was about 2,300 percent higher than your risk of contracting and dying from the bird flu.6 I'm not kidding! In just one year (2004), more than 1,170 people died from lighting strikes, worldwide.7

So please, as the numbers of confirmed swine flu cases are released, keep a level head and don't let fear run away with your brains. "

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...Swine-Flu.aspx


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## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
I've just been tagging along, agreeing with this info, but where is this (age-related mortality) info coming from? Anybody have sources?

There are no sources. It is rumor. People are just panicking and assuming the worst. I am surprised at the panic here at MDC - I thought you guys were more level headed than that.

If it was "young healthy people in their prime" that died due to cytokine storm then the little 4 year old boy with underlying health issues, would have been safe, right? Think about all the people diagnosed that survived (the vast majority) -were they all elderly people and infants/little kids? ... of course not. I'm sure they have already done autopsies on those who died, and if this was cytokine storm we would have heard about it by now.

I'm not convinced this is a dangerous pandemic about to occur, and that we are all going to die from cytokine storm. Those who are purchasing tamiflu and panicking are only helping Big Pharma grow more rich and powerful. Pathetic.

My only fear at this point (aside from the further deterioration of our economy due to panic) is what kind of pathetic laws they will pass to take away more of our freedoms and make us even sicker than we already are. I'm hoping one won't have to choose between jail, fine or quarantine, or getting the vax (when it comes out) because I personally will refuse to get this swine vaccine for myself or my family, or to use tamiflu.

While we are running around in a state of panic, those profitting from tamiflu are laughing all the way to the bank.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
I've just been tagging along, agreeing with this info, but where is this (age-related mortality) info coming from? Anybody have sources?


"Generally, people who die from influenza are older people or those who already have respiratory problems. They end up dying of pneumonia. But this time around, the people who died in Mexico are younger. They are apparently healthy people in their 20s, 30s and 40s. That's a big deal. When a virus seems to preferentially affect healthy people, it suggests its a new virus and is causing an overreaction of the immune response. "

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30423369/


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I do think that one positive thing we can do with all this panic about the flu is to take a look at our emergency kits. We all should have a plan in effect for any kind of emergency, including the flu. Every year schools are shut down around the country from the flu, last year, I know some were shut down in tennessee for 3-4 days to help stop the spread.

There are some good sites about emergency preparedness. The flylady at flylady.net has a 11 step (I think, not sure of the exact no.) emergency control journal which gets you thinking about what you need, would do, information, etc. in case of emergency. Flutrackers.com has a spot at the top of the forums that has a 30 day preparedness thread with lots of great ideas, I won't be using all of them, but it gets you thinking.

sometimes we are so busy getting caught up in the latest panic 'trend' and forget about all the emergencies that could hit us daily. for example, my daughter's school had a power outage at 09am yesterday and sent all the kids home. some kids had no keys to their houses, couldn't contact parents, etc. Those are the simple things we forget about. what about floods, power outages, fires, a trip to the ER, stuff like that. Now is a good time to go through your medicine/herbal/homeopathy cabinet, make a list of what's missing, expired, or stuff you want to add. No need to buy it all this week, but start a list and add a few things each week!

do you kids know what to do if asked? Is there a plan? I know we are lacking in a few areas and I want to take the opportunity to discuss it with my kids. help your kids feel more powerful about this current situation by doing something, getting them involved, and get planning!!!

I think this weekend I will take the time to go over some of it and see what we need to buy. In the north, we always need to be prepared for storms, sometimes they shut down all the roads and stores so we need a few days worth of supplies. And the heat, lights, phone, etc. all can go out.

I think we need to take the time to think about all the fear we are projecting on the kids and try to do something positive. Sitting around the house locked up and spending hours and hours watching scary news and internet shows is not helping us and more importantly is not helping our kids.

I know there was a thread about emergency preparedness kits a bit ago, I was scheduled to do a talk at our church for the women about preparing a kit and local information, but ironically it was cancelled due to a blizzard! I have some of the info around here somewhere, but if anyone has the link to the thread that would be great!!!


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

I would like to see statistics on those that died from the swine flu, which is only 7 confirmed cases in Mexico and the one in the US (which we now know had an underlying medical condition). There are around 159 dead of pneumonia in Mexico, but again only 7 confirmed cases so those other deaths could have other causes.

Take into consideration that the "death toll" is not rising all that much in Mexico, and in fact has slowed:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/sw...in-Mexico.html

They have had this virus going around for probably a few weeks in Mexico City before they knew what was going on, with a population of over 22 million. 7 confirmed deaths is a drop in the bucket with that amount of people, even 159 is. There are probably many, many more cases of the flu in which people didn't seek treatment and/or recovered over there that have not been reported. The way things stand right now, I am not particularly concerned.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
"Generally, people who die from influenza are older people or those who already have respiratory problems. They end up dying of pneumonia. But this time around, the people who died in Mexico are younger. They are apparently healthy people in their 20s, 30s and 40s. That's a big deal. When a virus seems to preferentially affect healthy people, it suggests its a new virus and is causing an overreaction of the immune response. "

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30423369/

The key word, though, is *apparently*. They don't know. As a PP said, we don't know their underlying medical conditions, what kind of food they ate, how often they drank, if they smoked, whether the air quality of their city/town made their lung function compromised before they even got sick. We don't know and it seems highly irresponsible for the media to be pushing stories based on *apparent* issues. It's right up there with the LA Times (and other local newspapers) publishing a story on two *apparent* deaths - one in Long Beach and one in La Mirada - from swine flu, both of which were later found to be not related.


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## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsbernstein* 
Please don't flame me for this...

But just because "young" people are dying...that doesn't necessarily scare me..yet.

This day and age, what percentage of those "young" people are actually "healthy young" people? How many are on a SAD diet, smoke, like in smog, yada, yada. GMO food, processed foods and the like do not lead to "health". So I am not sure we should be worried that they are "young"...yet.

Mrs B


And in addition, I have yet to see confirmation that this is true (that it is "young" people dying), maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. It just seems like something that everyone keeps repeating so it must be true







:. I really just don't see the facts yet for the fear being pushed. I think it will spread to more people and I wouldn't be traveling to Mexico right now, but I'm not changing our daily routine. The numbers just aren't there, nor the severity.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
The key word, though, is *apparently*. They don't know. As a PP said, we don't know their underlying medical conditions, what kind of food they ate, how often they drank, if they smoked, whether the air quality of their city/town made their lung function compromised before they even got sick.

According to the CDC they are getting to the root of the problem and have ruled out several factors including pollution, underlying medical conditions, poor health care, altitude, and other medicines:

"*Among the factors disease detectives have discounted are Mexico's air pollution, secondary infections and poor health care*. But they still do not know why so many Mexicans have died, although it could be because many more people actually have had the virus than health officials realize."

AP Article here.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GearGirl* 
And in addition, I have yet to see confirmation that this is true (that it is "young" people dying), maybe it is, but maybe it isn't.

From the WHO themselves:

"The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico."

EPR (Epidemic and Pandemic Alert and Response) here with above info.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
We should be more afraid of what the ramifications are going to be in the fall. When the state decides to force flu vaccines on our kids and such, when there are long lines in the ER from everyone suffering from a cold and you can't get treatment for a legitimately serious illness (we spent two weeks fighting for surgery for CONFIRMED appendicitis and sat in ER waiting room for HOURS until being sent home because it wasn't serious enough and there were no bed available, now that's scary!!! And it's happening everyday in every city in America and no one is forcing change!!!!)

.









:

The fall will get worse. Both in terms of the disease and the panic.


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## onlygirls (Mar 16, 2008)

I live in TX. We got a note from the district today talking about the flu. By the time DD came home from school, there were 3 school districts that are closing until May 11th. This includes day cares. Around dinner time, another school closed in Austin. It is a preschool with 450 students closing until May 11th. What happens after that magical day is beyond me.

http://www.austinisd.org/misc/flu/

Say what you want about a conspiracy, but people who work outside of the home need to find care for their kids for the next 12 days.

What if people don't have enough time off? unpaid vacation or sick leave? Getting fired?


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

The media is also inaccurate that this flu strain has appeared out of nowhere. Swine flu have been changing for quite a while, and it's not such a big surprise that this strain has avian, swine, and human flu virus bits in it. When I was in Vet Tech school, it was a well-known fact that we were taught that birds and pigs as well as humans are both reservoirs of flu virus and that their RNA can mix and match, though you usually need the pig virus to pick up the bird virus, as the bird virus is not able to mix directly with the human type very well. One of the reasons new flus usually come from Asia is they often have lots of pigs and poultry in close proximity to people. In fact, in research for veterinary vaccine manufacture for SIV (swine influenza virus), it has been known for years that some strains of swine flu were getting very similar to human flu.

One particular link on this:
http://news.scotsman.com/health/Viru...des.5220233.jp


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

Since I recently flew back from Mexico, I'm curious as to whether there's a site that lists all the affected flights and the numbers? I'm not too worried about it, but like I said before, i would feel terrible spreading it around.

I think closing the schools is a silly idea. The flu is contagious before you have symptoms, so it's pretty useless, the kids are already exposed. Now they will have to spend their summers in school, making it up. if they decide to do that around here, I'll switch to homeschooling because I refuse to send my kids to school all summer because of mass panic. Again, what I have been talking about in previous posts, teaching our kids to live their lives in fear and hysteria every time something new comes up.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Just a reminder for anyone who is at all interested...

Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, our local natural MD, who supports no vax, homebirths, and natural health care, is hosting a free webinar on the swine flu tonight starting at 8pm central time.

He's great, so I'd recommend it to anyone who's worried or just wants more information.

Just sign up on the website before 8pm.

www.homefirst.com


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## Ducky5306 (Jul 2, 2006)

I just found out my brothers girlfriend came home from a trip to Mexico about 2 weeks ago, Sick with the flu and all 3 of my brothers ended up sick within afew days... They are all fine now but it makes me wonder if it was swine flu? I guess it really doesn't matter at this point but I'm planing on taking my ds to their house for his 3rd birthday party on sunday.. I told them if anyone is still feeling even alittle sick that i'd feel more comfortable waiting a week or two..

Does anyone know how long someone is contagious for after they show symptoms?

thanks!


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## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
From the WHO themselves:

"The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico."

EPR (Epidemic and Pandemic Alert and Response) here with above info.

Thanks for the link, that was helpful. I'm still a little skeptical if it means the majority of flu cases, or the majority of deaths. Those might be too very different things.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Google Map of Worldwide Cases

Please don't panic, people. We're talking a couple hundred people, which in the case of a worldwide pandemic isn't incredibly significant. We also don't know a lot. And any news station reporting on it doesn't know much, either. So be smart and do what you always do. Work on strengthening your immune systems, not keeping yourself away from people.


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Subbing.


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ducky5306* 

Does anyone know how long someone is contagious for after they show symptoms?

thanks!









I don't think they are 100% sure on this particular flu, but people are usually contagious from the day before noticing symptoms until about 7 days after (more for children - I've heard 10 days).


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## lovbeingamommy (Jun 17, 2007)

We've had a confirmed case in Metro Phoenix, AZ. It was in an 8yo boy that came down with flu-like symptoms, went to HCP, had blood test and CDC officially confirmed today that it was swine flu. However, this boy's already recovered and been back at school. I've just read on a news report from the school district that the school will be shut down for 7 days and personnel asked to stay home.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Just trying to flood the airwaves with non-alarmist info here:

We've had less than 200 deaths from swine flu in a worldwide epedemic affecting 6 billion people. Even the US and Mexico, we're talking 200 vs. populations of 300+ million and 100+ million each.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...ovTCAD97SBNV81


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Dr. Tenpenny is also on with Dr. Eisenstein, FYI.


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## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
OH, I wanted to mention about the upcoming vaccines which I posted in the vaccine forum...

There is a HUGE push now to finance and spend money to get the vaccines for this flu and others produced and shipped ASAP. I believe that all of our panic is really just helping this push along.

So the only people going to benefit from our hysteria is the drug companies and vaccine manufacturers. And the fact that they are rushing to get this out means they will be cutting corners on testing and such to get it done.

We should be more afraid of what the ramifications are going to be in the fall. When the state decides to force flu vaccines on our kids and such, when there are long lines in the ER from everyone suffering from a cold and you can't get treatment for a legitimately serious illness (we spent two weeks fighting for surgery for CONFIRMED appendicitis and sat in ER waiting room for HOURS until being sent home because it wasn't serious enough and there were no bed available, now that's scary!!! And it's happening everyday in every city in America and no one is forcing change!!!!)

Everyone needs to really wake up about this, I can't believe that people on here aren't furious that the government is going to be taking so much money and putting it behind the drug companies, money that could be spent on other important health care issues and economy issues, that's where's it's needed. We are only making the rich richer with our panic, we are doing just what they wanted!!! And they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Again, my opinion, but something I think needs to be discussed further to dispel all the panic and hysteria that we ourselves are creating in this country and the world.

can states really force vaccines? i'm clueless. what about religious exemption and all that?


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

I know FL has a statue that allows for forced vaccinations when it's for national security. I'll try to find it...


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

http://www.know-vaccines.org/exemptionFAQ.html

"However, the Florida legislature approved the original more coercive version - of the MSEHPA (Model State Emergency Health Powers Act) and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law. Florida Statute 381.00315 (1)(b)4, gives an unelected public health official the power to force vaccination in certain circumstances with "any means necessary" (including the use of armed law enforcement officers). Even though the statutory language provides for a quarantine option for those who do not want to be vaccinated for health, religious of conscience reasons, the Florida statue also stipulates that during a Public Health Emergency, an unelected public health official may decide quarantine is not feasible and then force vaccination for communicable diseases with significant morbidity or mortality that also present a severe danger to public health. On its face, the Florida Religious Freedom Restoration Act ("FRFRA") recognizes greater protection than the United States Constitution for free exercise of religion in the face of government actions to the contrary. However, it is questionable whether during a Public Health Emergency, an individual could practically obtain the judicial relief provided for by FRFRA in time to hold the public health officers and law enforcement officers at bay."


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I think the whole thing is just a bunch of fear mongering. *You or your children are not any more likely to die from it than you are from the regular ol' flu.* And it's not even that widespread. There were 1000 cases in Mexico and 80 deaths (making the chance of dying from this flu less than one percent). I believe there are 50 cases in the US so far, and one death (and it was a boy who was actually from Mexico). You don't even have that big a chance of catching it. Mexico has a population of 100 million and the US has three times that. If this was THAT big of a deal, there would be thousands of cases, not less than 200.

The bolded statement is simply unknown at this time - you could be right or you could be wrong. No one knows. I will say that I just got home from the E.R. and at that E.R. (in Wilmington Delaware), there were "several" unconfirmed cases of swine flu that night alone. That is why you are seeing one day it's 1 person, the next day it's 20, the next day it's 64 or whatever. They keep testing and they keep finding it. But the tests take time to come back, etc.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

ok so they just shut down the Public Schools of Fort Worth.

Am i the only one that thinks this is crazy?


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
The bolded statement is simply unknown at this time - you could be right or you could be wrong. No one knows. I will say that I just got home from the E.R. and at that E.R. (in Wilmington Delaware), there were "several" unconfirmed cases of swine flu that night alone. That is why you are seeing one day it's 1 person, the next day it's 20, the next day it's 64 or whatever. They keep testing and they keep finding it. But the tests take time to come back, etc.

I suppose it's true I could be wrong, but there ARE 36,000 deaths per year of the plain ol' flu...I guess I was just trying to make the point that it's a silly thing to worry about this specific flu. You're not likely to get it, and if you do, you're not likely to die either. At the very least, we know that most of the reported cases did not result in death. And who knows how many mild cases there are that were not reported.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Eh, I kinda think the NYC schools are crazy that they aren't closing. We had 1 snow day this year, it's not like closing for the week is going to make a difference in the length of the school year. And yes, people would need different child care, I get that, but everywhere else is closing and we're getting snide letters from the school (ALL their letters are snide) about how school is still mandatory instead? With more suspected and identified cases than any other city in the US?







:


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I suppose it's true I could be wrong, but there ARE 36,000 deaths per year of the plain ol' flu...I guess I was just trying to make the point that it's a silly thing to worry about this specific flu. You're not likely to get it, and if you do, you're not likely to die either. At the very least, we know that most of the reported cases did not result in death. And who knows how many mild cases there are that were not reported.

But what is particularly concerning to me is that of the flu deaths in the U.S. each year, most are people with undeveloped or compromised immune systems. Formula-fed babies, the malnourished, the sick, the elderly, etc. But the people who have died were - in far greater proportion than normal - young and healthy. It's odd, it doesn't fit. And it should be troubling. We really do NEED to know why so many people in Mexico died vs. why the people (so far) elsewhere have mostly all had mild cases before exhaling that it's just a mild illness.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
But what is particularly concerning to me is that of the flu deaths in the U.S. each year, most are people with undeveloped or compromised immune systems. Formula-fed babies, the malnourished, the sick, the elderly, etc. But the people who have died were - in far greater proportion than normal - young and healthy. It's odd, it doesn't fit. And it should be troubling. We really do NEED to know why so many people in Mexico died vs. why the people (so far) elsewhere have mostly all had mild cases before exhaling that it's just a mild illness.

How do we know that they were healthy? They may have been young or even middle-aged, but I haven't read anywhere about the state of their health prior to infection.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
But what is particularly concerning to me is that of the flu deaths in the U.S. each year, most are people with undeveloped or compromised immune systems. Formula-fed babies, the malnourished, the sick, the elderly, etc. But the people who have died were - in far greater proportion than normal - young and healthy. It's odd, it doesn't fit. And it should be troubling. We really do NEED to know why so many people in Mexico died vs. why the people (so far) elsewhere have mostly all had mild cases before exhaling that it's just a mild illness.

We don't actually know the health status and ages of everyone who died. Unless you've seen something I haven't.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

How many people have died (for sure) of it here in america?


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
How many people have died (for sure) of it here in america?

Just one that I know of. And it was someone who was visiting from Mexico.


----------



## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
Just one that I know of. And it was someone who was visiting from Mexico.

the toddler?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Talula Fairie* 
I suppose it's true I could be wrong, but there ARE 36,000 deaths per year of the plain ol' flu...I guess I was just trying to make the point that it's a silly thing to worry about this specific flu. You're not likely to get it, and if you do, you're not likely to die either. At the very least, we know that most of the reported cases did not result in death. And who knows how many mild cases there are that were not reported.

Thats funny.. cause today I read there were 250,000 deaths a year related to the flu.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

I am so ticked! DH is taking vacation this week and everything we had planned is going to be canceled!


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
the toddler?

Yes.


----------



## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Just listened to the webinair (or however you spell that!). Dr. Tenpenny touched on how cytokine storms (which she mentions in her Fowl book, which I have not read) usually occur and why it may have happened more in Mexico City. Apparently, certain toxic build-ups in the body (I forget some of the ones she mentioned), despite otherwise seeming "healthy", can lead to the cascade of events that cause the storm. She specifically mentioned that Mexico City is one of the worst places of organic pollution and it is not surprising that many people there would have this issue.

According to my notes, she also mentioned the book "Detoxify or Die" (don't remember the author) as a good resource to help you rid of toxic substances in your system.

They did talk a lot about vit D and that 5000 IU is what most northern latitude people should be getting through supplements a day rather than the 400 IU usually recommended. 6000-10000 IU for pregnant or nursing women, no supplements for nursing newborns (just mom), and 2000-3000 for children. I'm wondering how much I and my kids should be getting, as I am nursing my 20 month-old and my soon-to-be 5 yo. DD nurses multiple times a day and at least once during the night, DS at least 1 time a day, sometimes 3. Advice appreciated!


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Thats funny.. cause today I read there were 250,000 deaths a year related to the flu.


Yes, but 36,000 are in the USA alone. The larger number pertains to worldwide deaths.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freud* 
Yes, but 36,000 are in the USA alone. The larger number pertains to worldwide deaths.

I think both numbers are bunk.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Just listened to the webinair (or however you spell that!). Dr. Tenpenny touched on how cytokine storms (which she mentions in her Fowl book, which I have not read) usually occur and why it may have happened more in Mexico City. Apparently, certain toxic build-ups in the body (I forget some of the ones she mentioned), despite otherwise seeming "healthy", can lead to the cascade of events that cause the storm. She specifically mentioned that Mexico City is one of the worst places of organic pollution and it is not surprising that many people there would have this issue.

According to my notes, she also mentioned the book "Detoxify or Die" (don't remember the author) as a good resource to help you rid of toxic substances in your system.

They did talk a lot about vit D and that 5000 IU is what most northern latitude people should be getting through supplements a day rather than the 400 IU usually recommended. 6000-10000 IU for pregnant or nursing women, no supplements for nursing newborns (just mom), and 2000-3000 for children. I'm wondering how much I and my kids should be getting, as I am nursing my 20 month-old and my soon-to-be 5 yo. DD nurses multiple times a day and at least once during the night, DS at least 1 time a day, sometimes 3. Advice appreciated!










I listened too. They also mentioned taking 50,000IU of Vitamin D when you notice symptoms of cold/flu.

On homefirst.com, Dr. Eisenstein's website, he makes these recommendations:

Adults &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..5,000IU per day
Children &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 5,000IU every other day
Chronic Illness&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. 5,00IU 1-2 per day
Colds & Flu Treatment&#8230;..&#8230; 50,000IU 1 per day for 3 days
Pregnant and nursing..&#8230;.........5,000IU 2 per day
Newborn bottle fed&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....&#8230;5,000IU every other day

Although, these recommendations are for his supplement of Vitamin D, which also includes probiotics, so I don't know if that changes anything when only taking Vitamin D alone. I doubt it, but it would be best to consult with your doctor before loading up on Vitamin D.

You can see this same info on his website.


----------



## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I think both numbers are bunk.

How come?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freud* 
I listened too. They also mentioned taking 50,000IU of Vitamin D when you notice symptoms of cold/flu.

On homefirst.com, Dr. Eisenstein's website, he makes these recommendations:

Adults &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..5,000IU per day
Children &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 5,000IU every other day
Chronic Illness&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..&#8230;&#8230;. 5,00IU 1-2 per day
Colds & Flu Treatment&#8230;..&#8230; 50,000IU 1 per day for 3 days
Pregnant and nursing..&#8230;.........5,000IU 2 per day
Newborn bottle fed&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.....&#8230;5,000IU every other day

Although, these recommendations are for his supplement of Vitamin D, which also includes probiotics, so I don't know if that changes anything when only taking Vitamin D alone. I doubt it, but it would be best to consult with your doctor before loading up on Vitamin D.

You can see this same info on his website.

I have some that say 4,000 IU and they say to take one every other day. I take one once a day anyway. The kids haven't been taking any. Maybe I will pick up some more on Friday.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freud* 
How come?

Because 36,000 healthy people don't just die of the flu each year. It is generally people that are already sick and have compromised immune systems.

So if someone already sick with AIDS gets the flu and dies... it's not really the flu that killed them.. but the AIDS.. ya know?


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## octobermoon (Nov 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cersha* 
http://www.know-vaccines.org/exemptionFAQ.html

"However, the Florida legislature approved the original more coercive version - of the MSEHPA (Model State Emergency Health Powers Act) and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law. Florida Statute 381.00315 (1)(b)4, gives an unelected public health official the power to force vaccination in certain circumstances with "any means necessary" (including the use of armed law enforcement officers). Even though the statutory language provides for a quarantine option for those who do not want to be vaccinated for health, religious of conscience reasons, the Florida statue also stipulates that during a Public Health Emergency, an unelected public health official may decide quarantine is not feasible and then force vaccination for communicable diseases with significant morbidity or mortality that also present a severe danger to public health. On its face, the Florida Religious Freedom Restoration Act ("FRFRA") recognizes greater protection than the United States Constitution for free exercise of religion in the face of government actions to the contrary. However, it is questionable whether during a Public Health Emergency, an individual could practically obtain the judicial relief provided for by FRFRA in time to hold the public health officers and law enforcement officers at bay."

that is downright terrifying!


----------



## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

So the CDC's weekly flu report from April 18,2009 here:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

states that of 770 isolates tested (Influenza A, H1N1 types), 765 of them are resistant to the antiviral Oseltamivir (aka Tamiflu)=99.4% RESISTANT

the previous season's 2007-2008 data:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weekly...-08summary.htm

That says in the 2007-8 season, the same types were 10.9% resistant.
It also mentions that in 2006-7 that same type was only 0.7% resistant.

While I realize that "reports" are saying this swine flu is responding to Tamiflu, this data (above) makes it seem as if the current hysteria has the excellent benefit of unloading a stockpile of millions of doses of antiviral meds that are becoming more useless each year. Or am I missing something?

Do note that there are other strains that it still seems to be effective against, but that Type A (H1) + A (unsubtyped) account for nearly 2/3 of all the cases of flu this season so far.

Also, here are guidelines CDC issued about using a combination of OTHER antivirals to combat this strain:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals...ls/summary.htm


----------



## Stayseeliz (Jul 16, 2004)

Just wanted to share a tidbit. DH told me that DS's Scout leader spent 20 minutes going on and on about the swine flu Monday night as he lead the scout meeting and scared DS to bits. DS spiked a fever the next day (which I'm pretty sure he got from the scout leader's kids) and was crying last night because he was sure he had swine flu and something awful was going to happen. I had to reassure him over and over that it was unlikely and that he would be fine. Bleh..


----------



## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I have some that say 4,000 IU and they say to take one every other day. I take one once a day anyway. The kids haven't been taking any. Maybe I will pick up some more on Friday.

For adults, studies have shown it is safe to take 4000 IU a day. See my thread about alternatives to vaccination (just moved to this forum) for more info on Vitamin D. We should all be taking more.


----------



## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Thats funny.. cause today I read there were 250,000 deaths a year related to the flu.

I read here that there were about that many TOTAL confirmed cases:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weekly...-08summary.htm

I can't imagine they all died. Perhaps that stat is worldwide? I was referring to the US only (did I not specify? I might have forgotten. I have preggo brain!)

This link here does state there are 36k deaths per year in the US:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210120020.htm


----------



## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I think both numbers are bunk.

Well you certainly could be right about that.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Because 36,000 healthy people don't just die of the flu each year. It is generally people that are already sick and have compromised immune systems.

Usually it's in the elderly population.


----------



## Rikki Jean (Jul 15, 2005)

I haven't read the recent replies yet, but here's the alarmist report from my area: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...erside-co.html









I only found this because DH's grandma called me earlier to let me know that there was a swine flu case in our town (she figured I wouldn't find out since I don't watch TV). She said that the girl is in high school, so her school is being shut down for three days. I asked her, "Grandma, did they say that it's _confirmed_ that she has it?" "Oh, yes," she said, "it's confirmed".

According to the article, it's speculation, although, they make it _seem_ like it's confirmed, without coming right out and saying it.







The county website lists pretty much the same information.

I'm seeing more and more how the media writes things in just the right way to make things appear differently than they really are. You really have to read between the lines!


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Looks like the current incarnation of this flu isn't all that bad at all:

Quote:

As the World Health Organization raised its infectious disease alert level Wednesday and health officials confirmed the first death linked to swine flu inside U.S. borders, scientists studying the virus are coming to the consensus that this hybrid strain of influenza -- at least in its current form -- isn't shaping up to be as fatal as the strains that caused some previous pandemics.

In fact, the current outbreak of the H1N1 virus, which emerged in San Diego and southern Mexico late last month, may not even do as much damage as the run-of-the-mill flu outbreaks that occur each winter without much fanfare.
http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...3.story?page=1


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## Rikki Jean (Jul 15, 2005)

I think I win the multiquoting prize...

Quote:



Originally Posted by *A&A*









:

Especially since I read about the man who turned blue from silver.


I think this has already been touched on, but since I just spent like two hours going through all of today's posts, I can't remember.







:

I've seen the interviews with that guy, and I really don't think that he is in his right mind. Also, if you look at any bottle of CS, it says right on it that it is NOT for everyday use. He was taking it everyday, thus the argyria.

We take it for intensive purposes only, and we're still olive-skinned here.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jwebbal*


I have never understood how someone on this board could disdain aluminum and thimerosal in vaccines, and then give their child silver (which does build up in the body).

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery.../silverad.html

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/111/cas...a/wadhera.html

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/col...silver/AN01682

http://rosemaryjacobs.com/rose1.html


Hi Joanne.









I really don't like Quack Watch, so they're not going to change my perspective. I'll look at the other links though.









As I said above, we only take it when we're sick, and that's it. Silver _does_ have healing properties, so, for the time being, I'm not opposed to it, in moderation.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *FrannieP*


Dr. Mercola just posted this:
Critical Alert: The Swine Flu Pandemic - Fact or Fiction?
I haven't read it yet - it's long and took forever to load.

fp


Thanks for this!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *A&A*


Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...Tf9iAD97S7UPG2

(sorry if this has already been posted. I didn't see it posted, though.)












Quote:



Originally Posted by *Ruthla*


So this "super-scary" swine flu should respond to regular flu treatments such as high doses of vitamin C, raw garlic, and elderberry extract?


I think that someone already answered you on this, but according to some of the info posted in this thread and another thread here about preventing/treating swine flu with herbs, elderberry is not a good idea because it can contribute to the cytokine storms.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Periwinkle*









: Mercola is using an extremely sensational and moreover scientifically weak argument here (and that's putting it nicely). That's like saying no one really dies of AIDS, because they die of pneumonia or infections etc. That's what flu deaths ARE... complications and secondary infections (such as pneumonia, sepsis, etc.). So saying "no one really died of flu... it was strep" is completely misleading... _even if it's true, which it isn't_,


This is the point, exactly. Lots of people get the flu every year, recover, and go on with life. However, some people get the flu, then develop a secondary infection, and die from that infection. What's so sensationalist about that?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *velochic*


"Phase 5 is characterized by human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region. While most countries will not be affected at this stage, the declaration of Phase 5 is a strong signal that a pandemic is imminent and that the time to finalize the organization, communication, and implementation of the planned mitigation measures is short. "

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian.../en/index.html


Really, I don't get this. I mean, isn't the common cold a virus spread by human-to-human contact? Don't a bazillion people get it every year? Does that mean that we're really always at a stage 5, and they just don't want to tell us?









Quote:



Originally Posted by *KarlaC*


Mass hysteria? Reminds me of a while back when Newcastle's was 'taking over' & the one farmer put all his chickens(30,000) through a wood chipper rather than have them even tested to see if they were sick







Or using a more humane method to euthanize them.












Quote:



Originally Posted by *newmum35*


T
My only fear at this point (aside from the further deterioration of our economy due to panic) is what kind of pathetic laws they will pass to take away more of our freedoms and make us even sicker than we already are. I'm hoping one won't have to choose between jail, fine or quarantine, or getting the vax (when it comes out) because I personally will refuse to get this swine vaccine for myself or my family, or to use tamiflu.


I've had some rather unsettling thoughts about this too.









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maggi315*


I do think that one positive thing we can do with all this panic about the flu is to take a look at our emergency kits. We all should have a plan in effect for any kind of emergency, including the flu. Every year schools are shut down around the country from the flu, last year, I know some were shut down in tennessee for 3-4 days to help stop the spread.

There are some good sites about emergency preparedness. The flylady at flylady.net has a 11 step (I think, not sure of the exact no.) emergency control journal which gets you thinking about what you need, would do, information, etc. in case of emergency. Flutrackers.com has a spot at the top of the forums that has a 30 day preparedness thread with lots of great ideas, I won't be using all of them, but it gets you thinking.

sometimes we are so busy getting caught up in the latest panic 'trend' and forget about all the emergencies that could hit us daily. for example, my daughter's school had a power outage at 09am yesterday and sent all the kids home. some kids had no keys to their houses, couldn't contact parents, etc. Those are the simple things we forget about. what about floods, power outages, fires, a trip to the ER, stuff like that. Now is a good time to go through your medicine/herbal/homeopathy cabinet, make a list of what's missing, expired, or stuff you want to add. No need to buy it all this week, but start a list and add a few things each week!

do you kids know what to do if asked? Is there a plan? I know we are lacking in a few areas and I want to take the opportunity to discuss it with my kids. help your kids feel more powerful about this current situation by doing something, getting them involved, and get planning!!!

I think this weekend I will take the time to go over some of it and see what we need to buy. In the north, we always need to be prepared for storms, sometimes they shut down all the roads and stores so we need a few days worth of supplies. And the heat, lights, phone, etc. all can go out.

I think we need to take the time to think about all the fear we are projecting on the kids and try to do something positive. Sitting around the house locked up and spending hours and hours watching scary news and internet shows is not helping us and more importantly is not helping our kids.

I know there was a thread about emergency preparedness kits a bit ago, I was scheduled to do a talk at our church for the women about preparing a kit and local information, but ironically it was cancelled due to a blizzard! I have some of the info around here somewhere, but if anyone has the link to the thread that would be great!!!


Thank you for this fantastic reminder that we need to be prepared for ANYTHING!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Freud*


Just a reminder for anyone who is at all interested...

Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, our local natural MD, who supports no vax, homebirths, and natural health care, is hosting a free webinar on the swine flu tonight starting at 8pm central time.

He's great, so I'd recommend it to anyone who's worried or just wants more information.

Just sign up on the website before 8pm.

www.homefirst.com


Well, I was so busy being deeply engrossed in this thread, I totally forgot about the webinar!







:

Quote:



Originally Posted by *birdiefu*


I don't think they are 100% sure on this particular flu, but people are usually contagious from the day before noticing symptoms until about 7 days after (more for children - I've heard 10 days).


Wow, seven days after? I didn't know that. No wonder it (typical flu) spreads like wildfire; who really stays away from the world for seven days, if they've recovered quicker than that?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Cersha*


I know FL has a statue that allows for forced vaccinations when it's for national security. I'll try to find it...


Scary.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Periwinkle*


The bolded statement is simply unknown at this time - you could be right or you could be wrong. No one knows. I will say that I just got home from the E.R. and at that E.R. (in Wilmington Delaware), there were "several" unconfirmed cases of swine flu that night alone. That is why you are seeing one day it's 1 person, the next day it's 20, the next day it's 64 or whatever. They keep testing and they keep finding it. But the tests take time to come back, etc.


They also keep testing and _ not _ finding it. Just because they're testing doesn't mean that it's going to come back positive. I bet that TONS of people are being affected by this mass hysteria, and even if they just happen to have allergies or a cold, are convincing themselves that they need to be hospitalized for swine flu.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *birdiefu*


They did talk a lot about vit D and that 5000 IU is what most northern latitude people should be getting through supplements a day rather than the 400 IU usually recommended. 6000-10000 IU for pregnant or nursing women, no supplements for nursing newborns (just mom), and 2000-3000 for children. I'm wondering how much I and my kids should be getting, as I am nursing my 20 month-old and my soon-to-be 5 yo. DD nurses multiple times a day and at least once during the night, DS at least 1 time a day, sometimes 3. Advice appreciated!










I need to do some more vitamin D reading. I'm tandem nursing too, so I need to find out what kind of difference that makes for me. I also want to know what age bracket qualifies as "children", and if my 17 m/o needs it or not (which gives me pause, because we do CLO for vitamin D, and fish is something we don't introduce until 2 years).

That didn't answer your question, I know. I was just adding on!









Quote:



Originally Posted by *aniT*


So if someone already sick with AIDS gets the flu and dies... it's not really the flu that killed them.. but the AIDS.. ya know?


This is a good point that I hadn't thought of, really. That puts an interesting twist on what I said above in response to Periwinkle, and also what she said (Periwinkle, if you read this, I'm not trying to gang up on you; I just thought that it was an interesting point in this conversation







).


----------



## girlsmamma2 (Jul 12, 2005)

What I don't understand is can SOMEONE in themedia please describe "mild". I mean that is what I find very fishy. When they interview these families they say, "yes, i'm a bit achey and tired but ok". They don't even seem to be as rattled from it as the regular flu which is a you can't move, are laid up on the couch, can't feel anything besides miserable and want to die, type flu. So, what is mild? Is it just feeling not so great,a bit run down, just a cough like a bad cold. No one, no one, is describing it and it's making me furious. I want symptoms. I want details. I don't want the typical flu description. I want to know what these people actually felt like, how long it lasted, how they started to feel better. I almost feel like when I'm watching the interviews they are telling the people to be very general or vague you know?


----------



## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Because 36,000 healthy people don't just die of the flu each year. It is generally people that are already sick and have compromised immune systems.

So if someone already sick with AIDS gets the flu and dies... it's not really the flu that killed them.. but the AIDS.. ya know?


Umm no, that's ridiculous. The flu still kills them. The underlying condition just complicates it.







I have a child with a mitochondrial disorder. He's nearly died from the flu twice already. He's living just fine with his disorder, however.


----------



## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Because 36,000 healthy people don't just die of the flu each year. It is generally people that are already sick and have compromised immune systems.

So if someone already sick with AIDS gets the flu and dies... it's not really the flu that killed them.. but the AIDS.. ya know?

Sorry to repeat myself, but... that's what flu deaths usually ARE. It's like saying "oh hogwash people don't really die from stroke, they die from unhealthy eating habits and lack of exercise and poor diets high in unhealthy fats etc." Underlying pathology is what contributes to MOST non-accident and non-suicide deaths! Doesn't mean that it's unfair to say stroke kills people, or heart attacks, or flu, or Type II diabetes, etc.


----------



## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rikki Jean* 
This is the point, exactly. Lots of people get the flu every year, recover, and go on with life. However, some people get the flu, then develop a secondary infection, and die from that infection. What's so sensationalist about that?

Because Mercola (and others on this thread) are trying to argue that just because it's a secondary infection or complication that kills someone, it doesn't count as some sort of _bona fide_ flu death. I tried to point out that in doing so, Mercola is making some *interesting* (for lack of a better word) epidemiologic leaps of faith that benefit his own agenda but are just flat-out misleading and wrong. Secondary infections and complications are what kill people PERIOD (again, excluding accidents and suicide). Is it unfair to say alcoholism killed someone because it was not the gin & tonic that killed them, but liver failure? Is it unfair to say Type II diabetes killed someone when they "really" died from an out-of-control infection in the foot? I mean, basically, you can trace any death back and back and back til the patient is 2 years old and the mother gave him candy for breakfast, but there is a difference between cause of death and contributing medical history.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rikki Jean* 
They also keep testing and _not_ finding it. Just because they're testing doesn't mean that it's going to come back positive. I bet that TONS of people are being affected by this mass hysteria, and even if they just happen to have allergies or a cold, are convincing themselves that they need to be hospitalized for swine flu. //snip// This is a good point that I hadn't thought of, really. That puts an interesting twist on what I said above in response to Periwinkle, and also what she said (Periwinkle, if you read this, I'm not trying to gang up on you; I just thought that it was an interesting point in this conversation







).

Of course tests will come back negative. And of course people are worried they have swine flu when it's just a cold. I'm not getting the "and therefore this is a harmless illness no worse than a mild cold" leap, however. A + B does not equal Q.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlsmamma2* 
What I don't understand is can SOMEONE in themedia please describe "mild". I mean that is what I find very fishy. When they interview these families they say, "yes, i'm a bit achey and tired but ok". They don't even seem to be as rattled from it as the regular flu which is a you can't move, are laid up on the couch, can't feel anything besides miserable and want to die, type flu. So, what is mild? Is it just feeling not so great,a bit run down, just a cough like a bad cold. No one, no one, is describing it and it's making me furious. I want symptoms. I want details. I don't want the typical flu description. I want to know what these people actually felt like, how long it lasted, how they started to feel better. I almost feel like when I'm watching the interviews they are telling the people to be very general or vague you know?

There was a kid in Sacramento on the news last night. They said he had a fever on Sat. was much better by Mon.,and was back to teasing his sister by Wed. He was kicking a soccer ball around the yard when they interviewed him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Sorry to repeat myself, but... that's what flu deaths usually ARE. It's like saying "oh hogwash people don't really die from stroke, they die from unhealthy eating habits and lack of exercise and poor diets high in unhealthy fats etc." Underlying pathology is what contributes to MOST non-accident and non-suicide deaths! Doesn't mean that it's unfair to say stroke kills people, or heart attacks, or flu, or Type II diabetes, etc.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Because Mercola (and others on this thread) are trying to argue that just because it's a secondary infection or complication that kills someone, it doesn't count as some sort of _bona fide_ flu death. I tried to point out that in doing so, Mercola is making some *interesting* (for lack of a better word) epidemiologic leaps of faith that benefit his own agenda but are just flat-out misleading and wrong. Secondary infections and complications are what kill people PERIOD (again, excluding accidents and suicide). Is it unfair to say alcoholism killed someone because it was not the gin & tonic that killed them, but liver failure? Is it unfair to say Type II diabetes killed someone when they "really" died from an out-of-control infection in the foot? I mean, basically, you can trace any death back and back and back til the patient is 2 years old and the mother gave him candy for breakfast, but there is a difference between cause of death and contributing medical history.

Of course tests will come back negative. And of course people are worried they have swine flu when it's just a cold. I'm not getting the "and therefore this is a harmless illness no worse than a mild cold" leap, however. A + B does not equal Q.

Ok what I am reading is, in the first post you are saying it is the secondary infection (the flu) that kills them. But in the second post here you are saying both the secondary infection and the original condition killed them.

I tell people that my half sister died of diabetes. Cause no matter what the secondary infection was (and I don't even remember) it was the diabetes and the lack of controlling it that killed her.


----------



## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

This is from my blog, it is my rant about the fact that no one is talking about where this thing originated and what we can do in the future to stop it. Stop factory-farming and encourage small-scale, local and sustainable farming. We as consumers can help by buying only from local, conscientious farmers. And I give a link to a site that has information on natural ways to protect against the flu (the site is for the avian flu, so it may not apply 100% but they are all natural things that you may already have in your home). I actually got this link here on this thread, so thanks for that!

http://realfoodcure .blogspot. com/2009/ 04/when-i- eat-hamburger- i-cook-it- just.html

"Swine-Flu Ranting

So, I feel the need to rant and rave about this swine-flu thing. I know, everyone is pretty sick of hearing about it but there are 2 issues that I want to think about and I haven't seen them addressed in mainstream media.

The first issue is cytokine storms. In a very layman's nutshell a cytokine storm is an exaggerated immune system response to a previously unknown pathogen. Normally cytokine acts as a sort of dispatcher to immune cells. It tells them where to go and keeps them on their toes to do their job killing the bad guys. The problem is that sometimes these cytokines get out of control, start acting wild and don't do their dispatch job correctly. This can be quite damaging to the body because if there are too many of these immune cells going all crazy your body can't handle this. An example is if a cytokine storm occurs in the lungs then the overabundance of the immune cells can block airways and cause death.

This was a major problem in the 1918 influenza pandemic. Those with strong immune systems tend to be the victims of cytokine storms, hence the death of many people in the age-range of 20-45 years old. This has been the case in the current swine-flu outbreak as well.

It would be nice to see some media coverage on this one. They keep saying education is key, blah, blah, blah, but they're not saying anything useful. "Wash your hands". Gee, thanks.

I did find this website: http://www.bird- flu-influenza. com/relenza- tamiflu-alternat ives-folk- medicines- antivirals. htm, which gives helpful information about treating for bird flu (with cytokine storms in mind). They recommend some things that are anti-viral and some that inhibit cytokine production. It is very helpful. Some things listed are: raw garlic (anti-viral) , Vit C (anti-viral and cytokine inhibitor), green tea (anti-viral and cytokine inhibitor), St. Johns Wort (anti-viral and cytokine inhibitor), freshly squeezed apple juice (anti-viral) and more. Some things to avoid were: elderberry juice, honey, chocolate, Kim chi (they all enhance cytokine production) and more. Check out this page if you're worried.

Another bone I have to pick is with the fact that there is absolutely no coverage of the origination of the flu virus! It has been reported (all over Mexico) that the virus comes from a "pig farm" in Perote, Mexico. Ah, guys, that place is no more a farm than my backyard. What it is is a Confined Animal Feeding Operation or CAFO (our gov came up with this name). Do you want to see Wikipedia's definition?

"Confinement at high stocking density is one part of a systematic effort to produce the highest output at the lowest cost by relying on economies of scale, modern machinery, biotechnology, and global trade. Confinement at high stocking density requires antibiotics and pesticides to mitigate the spread of disease and pestilence exacerbated by these crowded living conditions."

(Just in case you didn't know, we are talking about animals here, live animals that actually have nerve endings and everything)

And they go on to say:

"The UN and OIE estimate that in coming decades there will be billions of additional consumers in developing countries eating meat factory farmed in developing countries, but currently only about 40 out of the around 200 countries in the world have the capacity to adequately respond to a health crisis originating from animal disease (such as avian flu, West Nile virus, bluetongue, and foot and mouth disease). Widespread use of antibiotics increases the chance of a pandemic resistant to known measures, which is exacerbated by a globally distributed food system. Decreased genetic diversity increases the chance of a food crisis."

I don't know about you but I have two reactions to this. One, why are those friggin' things allowed to exist?! Two, why are those friggin' things allowed to exist?! Oh, but wait, don't tell me, because I know why.....without them the industrial agriculture giants cannot make billions and billions of dollars. Well we wouldn't want to jeopardize their bottom line in the name of say, reducing the risk of a pandemic virus killing untold numbers of people, now would we? Oh, and what about allowing the doomed animal to live a decent life? No, that would go against everything you are taught in business school about maximizing profits and lowering costs.

Do you want to know what I read in a great book called, The Untold Story of Milk, by Ron Schmid? On page 206-207 he quotes an article from the New York Times Magazine written by Michael Pollan, "To Visit a Modern CAFO".

" Piglets in confinement operations are weaned from their mothers 10 days after birth (compared with 13 weeks in nature) because they gain weight faster on their hormone- and antibiotic -fortified feed. This premature weaning leaves the pigs with a lifelong craving to suck and chew, a desire they gratify in confinement by biting the tail of the animal in front of them. A normal pig would fight off his molester, but a demoralized pig has stopped caring. 'Learned helplessness' is the psychological term, and it's not uncommon in confinement operations, where tens of thousands of hogs spend their lives ignorant of sunshine or earth or straw, crowded together beneath a metal roof upon metal slats suspended over a manure pit.

"So its not surprising that an animal as sensitive and intelligent as a pig would get depressed, and a depressed pig will allow his tail to be chewed on to the point of infection. Sick pigs, being underperforming 'production units', are clubbed to death on the spot. The USDA's recommended solution to the problem is called 'tail docking'. Using a pair of pliers (and no anesthetic), most but not all of the tail is snipped off. Why the little stump? Because the whole point of the exercise is not to remove the object of tail-biting so much as to render it more sensitive. Now, a bite on the tail is so painful that even the most demoralized pig will mount a struggle to avoid it."

That might make you think twice about buying conventional meat again. And just because it is organic, doesn't mean that they're not doing this to the animals. The key to buying quality meat is small-scale, local and pasture-raised animals. These animals are not forced to endure the horrors of mass-production confinement operations. If we buy from local conscientious farmers we are speaking with the loudest voice there is, dollars (or pesos). Let's take our money away from fat corporations with absolutely no regard for the animals nor for the health of the general public, and give it to local farmers who are struggling to survive with no government subsidies and not a lot of consumer love.

And perhaps we won't have to live in fear of catching some bizarre pathogen that crosses 4 species?"

As an update I recently read that the farm in question (Smithfield) was tested and the results came back negative. Those of you familiar with the lengths the authorities will go to further their agenda can only be skeptical of this test result.


----------



## Crazybean (Apr 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cersha* 
http://www.know-vaccines.org/exemptionFAQ.html

"However, the Florida legislature approved the original more coercive version - of the MSEHPA (Model State Emergency Health Powers Act) and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law. Florida Statute 381.00315 (1)(b)4, gives an unelected public health official the power to force vaccination in certain circumstances with "any means necessary" (including the use of armed law enforcement officers). Even though the statutory language provides for a quarantine option for those who do not want to be vaccinated for health, religious of conscience reasons, the Florida statue also stipulates that during a Public Health Emergency, an unelected public health official may decide quarantine is not feasible and then force vaccination for communicable diseases with significant morbidity or mortality that also present a severe danger to public health. On its face, the Florida Religious Freedom Restoration Act ("FRFRA") recognizes greater protection than the United States Constitution for free exercise of religion in the face of government actions to the contrary. However, it is questionable whether during a Public Health Emergency, an individual could practically obtain the judicial relief provided for by FRFRA in time to hold the public health officers and law enforcement officers at bay."

Does anyone know if OTHER states have something like this? I just *love* who signed it into law.. how nice of him..

I wonder how this would work? Would they come door to door with a nurse? Would they fill up dart guns and just shoot whomever they see walking? I love how vague it is. Would they make you provide your religious exemption to even consider your stance? And, with everyone who WOULD run at he chance for a vaccine, I'm sure there would be lines out the door anyway- anyone have a clue how this would work?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazybean* 
Does anyone know if OTHER states have something like this? I just *love* who signed it into law.. how nice of him..

I wonder how this would work? Would they come door to door with a nurse? Would they fill up dart guns and just shoot whomever they see walking? I love how vague it is. Would they make you provide your religious exemption to even consider your stance? And, with everyone who WOULD run at he chance for a vaccine, I'm sure there would be lines out the door anyway- anyone have a clue how this would work?

I think all states have laws like this. I don't think they are as drastic as that one though.


----------



## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Jimibell - I totally agree with you about the CAFOs. They have been a source of disease for so long, including that dangerous form E. coli that seems to regularly produce a public health scare when contaminated farm runoff gets to nearby produce growing nearby. I saw a spot on the news that touched on the CAFOs and the overuse of anitibiotics and the "manure lagoons" (which are great vectors of disease and pollution) that they have to make, since with such a large amount of animals all together in one area, the waste cannot be recycled back into the pasture like in a normal (well, maybe not normal anymore, but "traditional") small-scale farm.

I hope that this current virus scare can help more of the public see that this is a very dangerous way to practice animal management. Not just for the welfare of animals (which of course, is very sad), but for the health of humans and the environment, too. I hope that it can be the start of eliminating the CAFOs, decentralizing the nation's food sources, and opening the way for the government to support smaller-scale farming. However, unless there is a huge public outcry, I doubt anything will change since there is big, big money in the CAFO companies...that the government also reaps.








:

But back to the flu issue - I was surprised that other media outlets did not really catch on to this (which I posted earlier, too).

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...3.story?page=1

That the current strain of circulating swine flu seems to be even *less* severe than our normal seasonal flu and why there are many mild cases reported in the US. Also that it seems to be related to a previous pandemic virus from 1957, where people exposed then may have partial immunity. Which is a more likely reason than a cytokine storm why more people in Mexico younger that 52 (number of years since 1957) have worse symptoms or more deaths than the older population.

With our media, the reports of the two suspected US deaths a day or two ago circulated so much faster than this report of the analysis of the virus and that it isn't so dangerous as we thought. Cause that doesn't make people want to keep watching the news.







:


----------



## Suzannah (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
Since I recently flew back from Mexico, I'm curious as to whether there's a site that lists all the affected flights and the numbers? I'm not too worried about it, but like I said before, i would feel terrible spreading it around.

I think closing the schools is a silly idea. The flu is contagious before you have symptoms, so it's pretty useless, the kids are already exposed. Now they will have to spend their summers in school, making it up. if they decide to do that around here, I'll switch to homeschooling because I refuse to send my kids to school all summer because of mass panic. Again, what I have been talking about in previous posts, teaching our kids to live their lives in fear and hysteria every time something new comes up.

I agree that we don't need to teach our kids to paranoid overreactors, but closing schools is not a bad idea if the flu is present. Are you a teacher? I am. I teach 6th grade, and the kids at my school don't EVER wash their hands, except when prompted. I would say 25% of them reliably wash their hands after using the restroom. Additionally, parents send their kids to school virulently ill, coughing, sneezing, with fevers and sometimes throwing up in class. If we could get kids to practice good hygiene, and parents to practice common sense, then schools would not be the petri dishes that they are. The reality of closing schools is that most parents are against it for fiscal reasons (who will watch the kids?), and 85% of the parents I have spoken to about summer are not looking forward to having the responsibility of their kids at home full-time, and they don't want to start early. Please don't anyone be all offended by the last statement. I am speaking from MYexperience.


----------



## mkmoro311 (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dogmom327* 
I think it's a little early to completely breathe easy that none of the confirmed cases in the US have resulted in deaths. Compared to Mexico, we have only a very small number of confirmed cases and so far the cases have been in people who are neither infants or the elderly (I think the youngest so far is 9 and the oldest is 50)--in fact it sounds like most of the cases are in otherwise healthy teenagers who should theoretically have some of the best immune systems in the population. When/if it hits infants, the elderly, those with compromised immune systems, etc., we will likely see higher rates of death (as with any flu or other similar disease).

Not to be scary...I just think it's a little early to think we're in the clear.

Teenagers are on all sorts of meds: asthma, ADHD, allergy, etc.. These can all weaken your immune system and leave them open to illness!


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## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Sitting at home on the internet reading a news story or watching the News on TV does not make us experts on Swine Flu. We do not know the people who died personally and therefore cannot say with any degree of accuracy how healthy any of them were. As for ruling poor air quality and pollution as completely unrelated. Well I'm smart enough to know that poor air quality and pollution can kill you all on it's own without any help from the flu.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Stayseeliz* 
Just wanted to share a tidbit. DH told me that DS's Scout leader spent 20 minutes going on and on about the swine flu Monday night as he lead the scout meeting and scared DS to bits. DS spiked a fever the next day (which I'm pretty sure he got from the scout leader's kids) and was crying last night because he was sure he had swine flu and something awful was going to happen. I had to reassure him over and over that it was unlikely and that he would be fine. Bleh..

That's just terrible







: I would be giving that "leader" a piece of my mind!

For me the sky is not falling. I went to a Tragically Hip Concert last night and it was awesome!







Living in fear is no way to live. I haven't watched the news in days and I feel great!


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Suzannah* 
I agree that we don't need to teach our kids to paranoid overreactors, but closing schools is not a bad idea if the flu is present. Are you a teacher? I am. I teach 6th grade, and the kids at my school don't EVER wash their hands, except when prompted. I would say 25% of them reliably wash their hands after using the restroom. Additionally, parents send their kids to school virulently ill, coughing, sneezing, with fevers and sometimes throwing up in class. If we could get kids to practice good hygiene, and parents to practice common sense, then schools would not be the petri dishes that they are. The reality of closing schools is that most parents are against it for fiscal reasons (who will watch the kids?), and 85% of the parents I have spoken to about summer are not looking forward to having the responsibility of their kids at home full-time, and they don't want to start early. Please don't anyone be all offended by the last statement. I am speaking from MYexperience.









this is sad but I believe true in many cases! I agree that closing schools is a good precautionary measure. I do understand that it causes problems for low-income families who cannot afford child-care, maybe Obama could throw some of that 1.5 billion in that direction instead of coming up with another dangerous vaccine (I would think the pharmies have enough cash anyway)


----------



## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Jimibell - I totally agree with you about the CAFOs. They have been a source of disease for so long, including that dangerous form E. coli that seems to regularly produce a public health scare when contaminated farm runoff gets to nearby produce growing nearby. I saw a spot on the news that touched on the CAFOs and the overuse of anitibiotics and the "manure lagoons" (which are great vectors of disease and pollution) that they have to make, since with such a large amount of animals all together in one area, the waste cannot be recycled back into the pasture like in a normal (well, maybe not normal anymore, but "traditional") small-scale farm.

I hope that this current virus scare can help more of the public see that this is a very dangerous way to practice animal management. Not just for the welfare of animals (which of course, is very sad), but for the health of humans and the environment, too. I hope that it can be the start of eliminating the CAFOs, decentralizing the nation's food sources, and opening the way for the government to support smaller-scale farming. However, unless there is a huge public outcry, I doubt anything will change since there is big, big money in the CAFO companies...that the government also reaps.







:


yes, buy local from sustainable farms!!!! we can speak with our dollars!!


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## Ophelia (Feb 16, 2005)

From a previous post:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

(Influenza A (H1N1) AKA Swine Flu has been RESISTANT to it on 765 out of 770 tested.)

So then, why on the Roche (Tamiflu manufacturer website) do they say:

Quote:

Roche is working closely with the World Health Organization (WHO) and Governments around the world to make the oral antiviral medication Tamiflu available to patients in need following the increased reports of outbreaks of swine flu. *The WHO and US CDC report Tamiflu is active against this new swine flu virus A(H1N1).*
And on THIS CDC page:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/

Quote:

The swine influenza A (H1N1) virus *is susceptible* to the prescription antiviral drugs *oseltamivir* and zanamivir
What the flippin' heck? Will the real answer please stand up?


----------



## Rikki Jean (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
This is from my blog


Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
But back to the flu issue - I was surprised that other media outlets did not really catch on to this (which I posted earlier, too).

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...3.story?page=1

Thank you both for these posts! I'm putting together an e-mail to send out to my family (I have a large immediate family [we're Greek, lol], and there are always lots of e-mails going out because everyone is all over the country, so why shouldn't we be talking about swine flu?), and I'll be including links to the blog and the LA Times story.


----------



## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ophelia* 
From a previous post:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

(Influenza A (H1N1) AKA Swine Flu has been RESISTANT to it on 765 out of 770 tested.)

So then, why on the Roche (Tamiflu manufacturer website) do they say:

And on THIS CDC page:

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/

What the flippin' heck? Will the real answer please stand up?


Influenza H1N1 is not the same as Swine Influenza H1N1. In that table, they are not referring to Swine Flu (765 cases of regular Influenza H1N1 are resistant to Tamiflu).

The CDC is reporting that Swine Influenza H1N1 is susceptible to Tamiflu.


----------



## DayDreamer (Aug 14, 2006)

Ok, I skimmed through all the pages of post so please bear with me if I am repeating something.

I live in Ft Worth, TX. The schools are closed here. Just this morning there were 17 confirmed cases in TX, and now it's up to 26.

My baby spiked a fever last night and has a few other minor symptoms. He just turned 2. I called the nurse hotline on the insurance and the nurse told me that the swine flu does NOT produce a HIGH fever. She said it is low grade 99-101. His fever was 101.9.

She also told me not to take him to the ER because of reasons I was already contemplating, such as he could pick up something there if he has nothing and an already weakened immune system.

So this morning I called our family doctor and I can't get him seen there because of a problem with our insurance cards. We have moved and didn't get our "current" cards... even though the numbers are the same. They were giving me a fit over it. My only choice to have DS seen is to go to the ER, which I don't want to do at this point. DS is still playing and active. He's also teething. Neither of my other two children have ran fevers while teething but from what I hear it's quite common??? I suppose all his "symptoms" can be explained from allergies/teething. But there is a bit of fear in me that maybe I'm being blase about things too. ??? I just don't know what to think.

Anyways, my real comment was about what the nurse told me about low grade fevers. Did she not give me correct info? Even the Star Telegram (newspaper) said it produces a high fever. UGH.


----------



## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DayDreamer* 
Ok, I skimmed through all the pages of post so please bear with me if I am repeating something.

I live in Ft Worth, TX. The schools are closed here. Just this morning there were 17 confirmed cases in TX, and now it's up to 26.

My baby spiked a fever last night and has a few other minor symptoms. He just turned 2. I called the nurse hotline on the insurance and the nurse told me that the swine flu does NOT produce a HIGH fever. She said it is low grade 99-101. His fever was 101.9.

She also told me not to take him to the ER because of reasons I was already contemplating, such as he could pick up something there if he has nothing and an already weakened immune system.

So this morning I called our family doctor and I can't get him seen there because of a problem with our insurance cards. We have moved and didn't get our "current" cards... even though the numbers are the same. They were giving me a fit over it. My only choice to have DS seen is to go to the ER, which I don't want to do at this point. DS is still playing and active. He's also teething. Neither of my other two children have ran fevers while teething but from what I hear it's quite common??? I suppose all his "symptoms" can be explained from allergies/teething. But there is a bit of fear in me that maybe I'm being blase about things too. ??? I just don't know what to think.

Anyways, my real comment was about what the nurse told me about low grade fevers. Did she not give me correct info? Even the Star Telegram (newspaper) said it produces a high fever. UGH.

I personally don't consider 101.9 a high fever for a baby....

I understand your concerns. That's about all I can say, I don't know what I would do but I do tend to err on the side of "wait it out"....that's just me. But I would avoid the ER at all costs!!!


----------



## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
So the CDC's weekly flu report from April 18,2009 here:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

states that of 770 isolates tested (Influenza A, H1N1 types), 765 of them are resistant to the antiviral Oseltamivir (aka Tamiflu)=99.4% RESISTANT

the previous season's 2007-2008 data:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weekly...-08summary.htm

That says in the 2007-8 season, the same types were 10.9% resistant.
It also mentions that in 2006-7 that same type was only 0.7% resistant.

While I realize that "reports" are saying this swine flu is responding to Tamiflu, this data (above) makes it seem as if the current hysteria has the excellent benefit of unloading a stockpile of millions of doses of antiviral meds that are becoming more useless each year. Or am I missing something?

Do note that there are other strains that it still seems to be effective against, but that Type A (H1) + A (unsubtyped) account for nearly 2/3 of all the cases of flu this season so far.

Also, here are guidelines CDC issued about using a combination of OTHER antivirals to combat this strain:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals...ls/summary.htm


BINGO!! Mystery solved, as far as I'm concerned. It would not surprise me if this strain was purposely planted for just that reason. However, I do fear an even more sinister side to this. I worry they have bigger plans for the future. Knowing how easy it is to manipulate and panic the public over something that turned out to be even more mild than the regular old flu, I'm sure they can think of some pretty nasty ways to deceive or force people into anything they want to in the future.

One thing that surprised me was that I didn't realize schools would close over the flu! (or that they had done this in the past for "regular" strains) I attended school in the 70s and 80s and our schools NEVER closed for illnesses! That's just crazy in my opinion. YOu got the flu - its a part of life. Nobody ever died over it! Entire schools don't shut down. Everyone didn't get it at the same time, maybe a handful of kids at once, and you stayed home if you were ill.

Now, I can understand in extreme circumstance, in theory, if the entire school were gravely ill due to some *mysterious* disease, taking a precaution in shutting down. But then again, surely word would get around and parents would voluntarily keep their children home, no? It's just bizarre that there were school closings over this, and no student was ever gravely ill. The fact that I live in a society that is so easily manipulated really concerns me. The panic that this brought about is mind bloggling. Killing 300,000 pigs in Egypt for nothing? OMG I can only imagine what a world of panic this is going to be if in fact there truly is an illness that brings about REAL death and suffering. If one could not handle hearing about a dozen or so "confirmed" swine flu deaths you are going to be putty in the hands of whoever wants to take advantage of you next time around.

My thinking went like this: When the # of deaths exceeds 36,000 (in the U.S.) then I might start to worry that swine flu might be more serious than the regular old flu (which I am not the least bit concerned about)


----------



## THANKFULFORFIVE (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DayDreamer* 
Ok, I skimmed through all the pages of post so please bear with me if I am repeating something.

I live in Ft Worth, TX. The schools are closed here. Just this morning there were 17 confirmed cases in TX, and now it's up to 26.

My baby spiked a fever last night and has a few other minor symptoms. He just turned 2. I called the nurse hotline on the insurance and the nurse told me that the swine flu does NOT produce a HIGH fever. She said it is low grade 99-101. His fever was 101.9.

She also told me not to take him to the ER because of reasons I was already contemplating, such as he could pick up something there if he has nothing and an already weakened immune system.

So this morning I called our family doctor and I can't get him seen there because of a problem with our insurance cards. We have moved and didn't get our "current" cards... even though the numbers are the same. They were giving me a fit over it. My only choice to have DS seen is to go to the ER, which I don't want to do at this point. DS is still playing and active. He's also teething. Neither of my other two children have ran fevers while teething but from what I hear it's quite common??? I suppose all his "symptoms" can be explained from allergies/teething. But there is a bit of fear in me that maybe I'm being blase about things too. ??? I just don't know what to think.

Anyways, my real comment was about what the nurse told me about low grade fevers. Did she not give me correct info? Even the Star Telegram (newspaper) said it produces a high fever. UGH.

My hubby has a business trip to El Paso coming up...are you Texans seeing something there that would suggest a cancellation of this trip? Just curious...


----------



## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

ok- well..

I've had flu-like symptoms for 4 days now.. low grade fever (100.3 today), cough, chills (freezing hands and feet), runny nose, diarrhea, vomited 2 days ago, little appetite and very tired/no energy.

should I get tested? I didn't even think (somehow) that it's possible that I may have something more than just a cold, but now that I read this thread... ahhh!

help? (I'm in Oregon, no confirmed cases but partner just got back from Austin, Texas last week...







a few days before I got sick- he did too but is better now..)


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## THANKFULFORFIVE (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I personally don't consider 101.9 a high fever for a baby....

I understand your concerns. That's about all I can say, I don't know what I would do but I do tend to err on the side of "wait it out"....that's just me. But I would avoid the ER at all costs!!!

I'll agree here. My youngest just had a temp of 105 for two days. No other symptoms, then she was right back to normal. No trip to the ER, not even the doc. I would just watch for any other signs of illness...


----------



## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Suzannah* 
I agree that we don't need to teach our kids to paranoid overreactors, but closing schools is not a bad idea if the flu is present. Are you a teacher? I am. I teach 6th grade, and the kids at my school don't EVER wash their hands, except when prompted. I would say 25% of them reliably wash their hands after using the restroom. *Additionally, parents send their kids to school virulently ill, coughing, sneezing, with fevers and sometimes throwing up in class.* If we could get kids to practice good hygiene, and parents to practice common sense, then schools would not be the petri dishes that they are. The reality of closing schools is that most parents are against it for fiscal reasons (who will watch the kids?), and 85% of the parents I have spoken to about summer are not looking forward to having the responsibility of their kids at home full-time, and they don't want to start early. Please don't anyone be all offended by the last statement. I am speaking from MYexperience.









I have to add if the school systems hadn't started with insanely strict attendance rules that might not be as big of an issue either.

Last year they ratcheted the # of absences allowed down to 6 in our system, that's with or without a dr's note, then they drag the parents into court for allowing their child to be delinquents.

Eta: The only safe way to get the kids out of school without going to court is to send them & have the school call you to come get them for being sick unfortunately.


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## DayDreamer (Aug 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I personally don't consider 101.9 a high fever for a baby....

I understand your concerns. That's about all I can say, I don't know what I would do but I do tend to err on the side of "wait it out"....that's just me. But I would avoid the ER at all costs!!!

I normally don't consider that a high fever either. I'm really not the type that freaks over a fever and runs off to the doc. My concern with it is the *panic* that has been stirred up and the nurse line RN told me swine flu produces a low grade fever. To me, that is low grade. I am still watching and waiting.







I never usually give into panic but for some reason I am this time! Is it because I am right smack in the middle of where there are a lot of cases? I kept saying, if I were still in PA I wouldn't be so freaked out right now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *THANKFULFORFIVE* 
My hubby has a business trip to El Paso coming up...are you Texans seeing something there that would suggest a cancellation of this trip? Just curious...

I don't know that we are seeing anything wild or crazy, yet. From what I've read the places hit hardest are CA and TX (border states) and NY. The star telegram website just annouced 4 more confirmed cases in Ft Worth. I honestly don't know if I would travel to El Paso right now. I suppose you should just keep a close eye on what's going on and your own personal comfort level. Also from what I hear is the symptoms don't show up for a good 4 days after you contract it??? I would probably not be so freaked out if I didn't have kids.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

I am due to travel through Dallas/Ft Worth on Saturday. My plane has a 50 minute layover. So I am off my plane from Florida, switch in Dallas and then on to California. I called AA last night and my only option to change it would be to go through Chicago. But there, I would have to have a 3 hour 40 minute layover. So FAR more time to wait around and be exposed to strangers.

Can anyone from Dallas/Ft Worth tell me what it is like? What is the coverage of your airports? I don't know what to do about traveling right now although I don't really have a choice. I am not worried for myself as much as my 2 year old.


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## anewmama (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmum35* 
BINGO!! It would not surprise me if this strain was purposely planted for just that reason. However, I do fear an even more sinister side to this. I worry they have bigger plans for the future. Knowing how easy it is to manipulate and panic the public over something that turned out to be even more mild than the regular old flu, I'm sure they can think of some pretty nasty ways to deceive or force people into anything they want to in the future.

I do not buy that _anyone_ planted this. It might be the fallout from our lifestyles, horrible animal factory farms that we morally as a country deem acceptable, from our medical practices, including vaccination, but I do not think anyone deliberately is causing this. I also think that if the big THEY wanted to freak us out, all they have to do is let a few more terrorist events happen. I am quite sure that many have ben thwarted so there are alot easier ways for THEM to freak the public out.


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## GearGirl (Mar 16, 2005)

Such hype over something that so far looks pretty mild. I still don't get it. It seems to me if so many people contracted the illness in Mexico, especially those in tourist locations such as Cancun, that this is probably highly contagious, and that the # of people getting it ion Mexico is in the millions, making the confirmed deaths of 7 people VERY, VERY small. Sure, more are thought to be caused by this, but wouldn't they know that already? It's not that I've ruled out the possibility that this could wreak havoc, but at this point it seems like a non issue. Many of us will get the flu, and then we will recover in a a week or so, and then we will have a little immunity when/if the swine flu mutates into something really nasty in the Fall or after.


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## onlygirls (Mar 16, 2008)

Here is what I got from our family practice office in an e-mail:

Although there have only been a few cases of swine flu in Texas, here's what to watch for along with important information and links.

Watch for flu-like symptoms, which include:
1. Fever greater than 100º AND cough and/or sore throat.
2. A recent respiratory illness with at least two of the following: runny nose, sore throat, cough (with or without fever or chills) and
a history of recent travel to Mexico (within 7 days) or
contact with a person who has been diagnosed with Influenza A or
you live in Bexar or Guadalupe county or a county near them
you have had recent exposure to pigs

The Center for Disease Control (CDC) swine flu site is frequently updated. http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/

The CDC response to the most common questions about swine flu. http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/swineflu_you.htm

DSHS has good information that's Texas-specific. http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/swineflu

The City of Austin has posted historical data regarding the common transmission of swine flu from pigs to people. It's good background info. http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/health/di...e_swineflu.htm

The current flu vaccine is not effective at preventing swine flu. The best precaution is to stay home if you're feeling ill (fever, chills, body aches and fatigue along with diarrhea and vomiting). Contact your physician or make an appointment at Central Family Practice at 512-371-9260 if you have flu-like symptoms. It is important to be tested and to start a course of anti-viral medicine early in the illness.

Prevention is important and CFP provides practitioner-chosen, high-quality, effective natural supplements for boosting the immune system to prevent illness, such as Wellness Fizz, Oscillococcinum and X-Clear.

--------------------------------------------------------

I would try to get myself or my child into a family practice office before being exposed to more germs and people in the ER.


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## onlygirls (Mar 16, 2008)

Apparently the little boy who died spent hours at the Houston Galleria (indoor mall) the day before he died.

Quote:

Health officials earlier insisted the boy posed no contagion threat to Houston because he had no outside contact there and was kept away from other patients in the hospital. His family has shown no symptoms.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...MFq3wD97SUB2G0


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## jenmichelle99 (Jul 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *THANKFULFORFIVE* 
My hubby has a business trip to El Paso coming up...are you Texans seeing something there that would suggest a cancellation of this trip? Just curious...

No, IMO.

There is always the perspective that catching a mild case now is preferable to catching a worse case this winter. It is my understanding that even if the virus changes, catching it now would provide some protection.

Also, I'm not sure how contagious this is? (yet). DS's father has had the flu (not sure if it is THE flu, since he is already better and did not go to the dr. He lives in Fort Worth) and we were around him all day sunday thanks to him not telling me he was sick







: (swine flu or no, i'd rather not be sick, thankyouverymuch) We are fine. He treats his body like crap, so i am not surprised he is sick. Also, none of the family members of the toddler that died got sick unless there is an update i'm not aware of. I dunno.


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## Thalia (Apr 9, 2003)

Professor's Computer Simulations Show Worst-Case Swine Flu Scenario

I found this to be reassuring, especially because the model does not take into account ANY preventative measures...


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## messy mama (Jan 14, 2005)

I'm not panicking. But I don't mind saying I just placed a pretty large order w/ iherb.com. It was stuff I needed anyway, but the constant swine flu coverage prompted me to do it.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
wouldn't it be more accurate to say that those people who have cykotine storms appear to have healthy immune systems but in fact they do not?
If their immune systems were truly "healthy" they wouldn't mal-function, no?

It's apparent to me that the medical community doesn't fully understand the immune system.

Yes, you are right. A healthy, _truly healthy and well functioning_, immune system would not respond like that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cersha* 
http://www.know-vaccines.org/exemptionFAQ.html

"However, the Florida legislature approved the original more coercive version - of the MSEHPA (Model State Emergency Health Powers Act) and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law. Florida Statute 381.00315 (1)(b)4, gives an unelected public health official the power to force vaccination in certain circumstances with "any means necessary" (including the use of armed law enforcement officers). Even though the statutory language provides for a quarantine option for those who do not want to be vaccinated for health, religious of conscience reasons, the Florida statue also stipulates that during a Public Health Emergency, an unelected public health official may decide quarantine is not feasible and then force vaccination for communicable diseases with significant morbidity or mortality that also present a severe danger to public health. On its face, the Florida Religious Freedom Restoration Act ("FRFRA") recognizes greater protection than the United States Constitution for free exercise of religion in the face of government actions to the contrary. However, it is questionable whether during a Public Health Emergency, an individual could practically obtain the judicial relief provided for by FRFRA in time to hold the public health officers and law enforcement officers at bay."

ok. I have not bought into all this fear mongering, but I have to tell you, this scares me. I live in FL and had no idea of this. I have had dreams about such things though. Holy crap. What has this world come to? Seriously.


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## littlelentils (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I am due to travel through Dallas/Ft Worth on Saturday. My plane has a 50 minute layover. So I am off my plane from Florida, switch in Dallas and then on to California. I called AA last night and my only option to change it would be to go through Chicago. But there, I would have to have a 3 hour 40 minute layover. So FAR more time to wait around and be exposed to strangers.

Can anyone from Dallas/Ft Worth tell me what it is like? What is the coverage of your airports? I don't know what to do about traveling right now although I don't really have a choice. I am not worried for myself as much as my 2 year old.

i think you will be fine! i am in fort worth and have family coming to town thru dfw airport from the border of mexico and im not worried. id be more worried about the person sitting next to me on the plane (if they are sick) than about a layover in the airport. i know we have quite a few outbreaks in fort worth but i havent heard about any hospitalizations. just handwash, get some rest, and eat healthy!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlygirls* 
Apparently the little boy who died spent hours at the Houston Galleria (indoor mall) the day before he died.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...MFq3wD97SUB2G0

Two things stood out to me in that article. One the boy had underlying health problems and two, he was hospitalized on April 8th. So this could very well be the dreaded "plague" that everyone has been fighting off all winter long. My DH was sick for two weeks in Feb. and he NEVER gets sick. For all we know it's been working it's way around all winter.. cause who on earth goes to the doctor AND gets tested to find out exactly which flu they have?


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## jaramirez19 (Dec 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
OT, but duh, that's what Edward was dying of in Twilight.







Wow I'm a nerd.

im a nerd with you! thought the same thing when i read it!


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## onlygirls (Mar 16, 2008)

If it has been going around all winter, I would feel much better. My kids were sick for weeks, passing crud back and forth and fevers were the symptom I remember the most.


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## tylerdylan (Aug 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cersha* 
http://www.know-vaccines.org/exemptionFAQ.html

"However, the Florida legislature approved the original more coercive version - of the MSEHPA (Model State Emergency Health Powers Act) and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law. Florida Statute 381.00315 (1)(b)4, gives an unelected public health official the power to force vaccination in certain circumstances with "any means necessary" (including the use of armed law enforcement officers). Even though the statutory language provides for a quarantine option for those who do not want to be vaccinated for health, religious of conscience reasons, the Florida statue also stipulates that during a Public Health Emergency, an unelected public health official may decide quarantine is not feasible and then force vaccination for communicable diseases with significant morbidity or mortality that also present a severe danger to public health. On its face, the Florida Religious Freedom Restoration Act ("FRFRA") recognizes greater protection than the United States Constitution for free exercise of religion in the face of government actions to the contrary. However, it is questionable whether during a Public Health Emergency, an individual could practically obtain the judicial relief provided for by FRFRA in time to hold the public health officers and law enforcement officers at bay."


I'm in Canada, so hopefully this won't happen here IF it happens (we are a little less strict about vaccinating), but I must say I am equally as scared of swine flu (my 4 year old is immunocompromised due to chemo treatments) as I am of the vaccine itself. I don't vaccinate my kids and this is after reading many books on the matter. But I may be forced to vaccinate our whole family with some brand new vaccine that hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know the short term complications of it let alone the long term effects of it???? YIKES! That terrifies me!!


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## belltree (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmum35* 
One thing that surprised me was that I didn't realize schools would close over the flu! (or that they had done this in the past for "regular" strains) I attended school in the 70s and 80s and our schools NEVER closed for illnesses! That's just crazy in my opinion.

I was surprised at first, too. But from my own experience, I remember very well, that there were times, when less than 10% of a class was present because of the flue hitting the school.

One problem nowadays seems to be, that children go to school, sick. It was common in my youth, to stay home another at least for another 1-2 days, after we didn't show any symptoms anymore.

But, I also feel, that closing a whole school district, because of a suspected swine flue case, as it just happened here, is just causing panic. But somewhere between the 10% and the 99.9% should be a line to close a school. BTW, I don't know anyone who died from the flue during my school years.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *belltree* 
I was surprised at first, too. But from my own experience, I remember very well, that there were times, when less than 10% of a class was present because of the flue hitting the school.

One problem nowadays seems to be, that children go to school, sick. It was common in my youth, to stay home another at least for another 1-2 days, after we didn't show any symptoms anymore.

But, I also feel, that closing a whole school district, because of a suspected swine flue case, as it just happened here, is just causing panic. But somewhere between the 10% and the 99.9% should be a line to close a school. BTW, I don't know anyone who died from the flue during my school years.

I would like to point out that one of the reasons so many kids go to school sick, or go right back to school as soon as they are no longer showing symptoms is because the schools themselves STRESS NOT MISSING SCHOOL. If your kid doens't show up that day, they don't get paid. So they have gotten picker about what is and is not excused. I have seen mom's on the education board complain becuase they schools wanted a doctors note each and every time their child missed school. Or some school districts were putting rediculous limits like.. your child can only miss 5 days a semester or year or something. Whatever it was it was rediculous! Some schools will take you to court and fine you for missing too much so.

And while I do realize often it is becuase the mom has to work and has no where else to send their child.. the schools themselves are also part of this problem.

And across the river in Vancover they talk nearly every year about closing schools for the norwalk virus.


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## belltree (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Whatever it was it was rediculous! Some schools will take you to court and fine you for missing too much so.

That is just ridiculous. I had no idea!









With only 5 sickdays a year I would never finished school, and I finished top of my class.

Quote:

And while I do realize often it is becuase the mom has to work and has no where else to send their child.. the schools themselves are also part of this problem.
But if that is the case, the consequence should be having larger sick rooms at every school, or even better would be to allow working parents to take more sick days for the chiildren.


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## Mpenny1001 (May 21, 2005)

Here's some reassuring news from an LA Times article today:

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,3606923.story


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Earlier this morning the CDC website said there was 2 laboratory confirmed cases in my state. I looked at the page again just now, and now it says 1. How did it go from 2 confirmed cases to 1?


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
ok so they just shut down the Public Schools of Fort Worth.

Am i the only one that thinks this is crazy?

I am in Utah and they just shut down Park City (schools) for "probable" cases of swine flu. Is anyone else nervous about what this is going to do to our economy if all towns and cities start doing this? A lot of people will not be working when they need to...that is what has been concerning me more than the actual virus. The FEAR OF THE VIRUS can do much more damage in my opinion.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anewmama* 
I do not buy that _anyone_ planted this. It might be the fallout from our lifestyles, horrible animal factory farms that we morally as a country deem acceptable, from our medical practices, including vaccination, but I do not think anyone deliberately is causing this. I also think that if the big THEY wanted to freak us out, all they have to do is let a few more terrorist events happen. I am quite sure that many have ben thwarted so there are alot easier ways for THEM to freak the public out.

I'm looking for a link right now, but on our local news last night (I know, not the best source...







) they finally were talking about where this whole thing could have started. They said that its possible that it actually originated in a pig in a lab, then (the pig) sent to the U.S., then to Mexico. Looking for info right now. If that were true...then I guess we could say this is man made...for whatever reason?


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## Kim Allen (Jun 28, 2008)

Dont know if anyone has already posted this just looked interesting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8021958.stm


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## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sages* 
I am in Utah and they just shut down Park City (schools) for "probable" cases of swine flu. Is anyone else nervous about what this is going to do to our economy if all towns and cities start doing this? A lot of people will not be working when they need to...that is what has been concerning me more than the actual virus. *The FEAR OF THE VIRUS can do much more damage in my opinion.*

(bolding mine.) Yes I totally agree. There haven't even been any suspected cases in my state, and when I went to storytime (which is usually overflowing), there were only FIVE people there. It is not even a serious threat for the US, at the moment. I do not get it.


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## Ducky5306 (Jul 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genesis* 
Earlier this morning the CDC website said there was 2 laboratory confirmed cases in my state. I looked at the page again just now, and now it says 1. How did it go from 2 confirmed cases to 1?









I noticed that too for Michigan (I was born/raised there, I've only been in FL 3 years)


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DayDreamer* 
Ok, I skimmed through all the pages of post so please bear with me if I am repeating something.

I live in Ft Worth, TX. The schools are closed here. Just this morning there were 17 confirmed cases in TX, and now it's up to 26.

My baby spiked a fever last night and has a few other minor symptoms. He just turned 2. I called the nurse hotline on the insurance and the nurse told me that the swine flu does NOT produce a HIGH fever. She said it is low grade 99-101. His fever was 101.9.

She also told me not to take him to the ER because of reasons I was already contemplating, such as he could pick up something there if he has nothing and an already weakened immune system.

So this morning I called our family doctor and I can't get him seen there because of a problem with our insurance cards. We have moved and didn't get our "current" cards... even though the numbers are the same. They were giving me a fit over it. My only choice to have DS seen is to go to the ER, which I don't want to do at this point. DS is still playing and active. He's also teething. Neither of my other two children have ran fevers while teething but from what I hear it's quite common??? I suppose all his "symptoms" can be explained from allergies/teething. But there is a bit of fear in me that maybe I'm being blase about things too. ??? I just don't know what to think.

Anyways, my real comment was about what the nurse told me about low grade fevers. Did she not give me correct info? Even the Star Telegram (newspaper) said it produces a high fever. UGH.


DayDreamer, I just wanted to suggest PrimaCare for your little one. I know that they are all over Dallas, hopefully there are a few close to you.

You don't have to show an insurance card when you go in, just pay the discounted rate, and then battle it out with your insurance later. It's so much better than sitting in the ER. They also have a 'call ahead' line. You can call for a place on the list, and then they'll give you a call when they are ready for you. That way you can just sit in the car until it's your time to go in.

I hope your LO feels better soon.


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

Mexican flu cases leveling off:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30398682


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## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

As I typed my last post I saw a promo for the news- 2 confirmed cases just a couple counties away. I'm still not really concerned. I mean, I am because if Dh gets sick and has to take time off work we won't be able to survive financially- but death or even serious illness is not on my radar right now.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Looks like the current incarnation of this flu isn't all that bad at all:

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...3.story?page=1

And yet.........

"Though scientists have begun to relax about the initial toll, they're considerably less comfortable when taking into account the fall flu season. They remain haunted by the experience of 1918, when the relatively mild first wave of flu was followed several months later by a more aggressive wave.

The longer the virus survives, the more chances it has to mutate into a deadlier form.

"If this virus keep going through our summer," Palese said, "I would be very concerned."

(from your link)


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## Kimmiepie (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:

Whatever it was it was rediculous! Some schools will take you to court and fine you for missing too much so.
That is part of the reason we home school. We had an issue with the school because the kids had missed too much (this was 2 years ago) and the principal was "nice enough" to just barely let us get by without going to court. It had been threatened though. We would be on "probation" and have to pay a fine. So rediculous! I'll decide if my kid is sick enough to stay home from school, and if we have a family emergency or appointment without having to go to court thank you very much.







:

Anyway, I am almost certain we've had the swine flu. Back when I was pregnant there was a guy at dh's work who was coughing all over him saying he'd been sick....he had recently been to Mexico! My dh got sick (early February). My dh never gets sick, and when he does it's always milder than everyone else. Well, he was DOWN and out! I don't believe it was the regular flu as his fever wasn't really that high at all. But the ALL of the symptoms are the same as the swine flu...the trademark of this illness was the insane headache. 2 weeks later I came down with it and was very down and out as well. I even made dh go buy some formula because I didn't think I could handle feeding the baby...the headache was SO intense I'd never experienced anything like it. Luckily, I managed to feed baby instead, but I really was feeling so awful, I cried. The kids eventually wound up with it, but every symptom they had was much milder than me and dh's...which makes me think about the cytokeine storm thing. They did have the massive headaches though as well.
I don't know...we all eventually finished with this illness by mid march. But I've had the flu, colds etc. before and this was different. I"m hoping it is what we had because that way I won't worry about getting it this time.









Oh yeah, we're in Texas. I really do think this has been going around for a while and no one was tested for it. But I could be wrong.


----------



## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jaramirez19* 
im a nerd with you! thought the same thing when i read it!









lol. I totally thought the same thing. "I was like if EDWARD could die from it..."









(moment of silence for Edward...)


----------



## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
And yet.........

"Though scientists have begun to relax about the initial toll, they're considerably less comfortable when taking into account the fall flu season. They remain haunted by the experience of 1918, when the relatively mild first wave of flu was followed several months later by a more aggressive wave.

The longer the virus survives, the more chances it has to mutate into a deadlier form.

"If this virus keep going through our summer," Palese said, "I would be very concerned."

(from your link)

True, but that is speculation - there is no guarantee that it will mutate to be worse, or if it does, how much worse it will be. And remember it can even mutate to be more mild, or that there may even be no further waves. We just don't know. My point was to illustrate how the current strain of this virus is, and that it is mild and comparable to seasonal flu. Even seasonal flu has the potential to mutate, and in fact does so every year (which is why we can get the flu every year, it changes enough so our immune system don't recognize parts of it as the same) and some years is more severe than others. The biggest concern when a "novel" flu virus such as this comes out is that it is unknown how severe of an infection it can cause in a human.

Most other pandemics in the past have not gone on to be quite so severe as the 1918 pandemic in any later waves. Yes, it can happen again or even be worse, and the media keeps on dredging up the worse-case-scenario to fuel our fears. Or it can be like the other pandemics other than the 1918 one that are rarely mentioned since they were not as bad. If I was afraid of how this will be in the fall, I might be seeking out the current strain and hope I get infected so I could have partial immunity to a subsequent mutated strain. We won't be in the clear for probably another year until we are sure whatever additional waves happen are done, but as of right now I am not particularly concerned.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

A couple of things I wanted to touch base on today....

First of all, about closing schools...yes, if there is a flu OUTBREAK, meaning more than 1 or 2 students...schools are closed every year around the country for flu outbreaks.

Should we close the school because 1 child MIGHT have the flu? Uh, no, that's not even logical...kids don't wash very well, and as the parent of 5 and a nurse, I am more than aware of all the nasty bugs they bring home. I should also mention I am considered immune compromised because my adrenal glands don't work and I am on long term steroid therapy. So I catch EVERYTHING that goes around, it seems as soon as I get better from one thing, something else hits.

But I am not going to spend my life living in my house with a mask on and gloves, closing schools. Should we close schools when the chicken pox hits? Because kids die from that every year? Or what about the regular flu, if one kid has it, should we close the schools? Or what about some of the nasty, nasty stomach bugs? Because people do die from that, you know? even otherwise healthy people, who become very dehydrated...

About scaring our kids...

this is probably what upsets me the most, how irresponsible we've been about this as a whole...our school cancelled the spring trips to places, have discussed all this with the kids, terrifying them, and today, another crazy letter home..

now all kids who are traveling to ANY COUNTRY OR STATE with 1, yes, 1 confirmed case, cannot return to school without a doctors note giving them a clean bill of health. Several major problems:
1. We live near the borders of several states and kids travel back and forth all the time, so realistically, who is going to spend the time and money going to the doctor everytime they cross over?
2. Now we have to take our kids to the peds office where all kinds of germs live and expose them to even more
3. People are just going to be forced to lie and have their kids lie, remember, not everyone even have insurance and simply can't afford it!
4. The pediatricians are being put in a terrible position. None of them want to sign off on this and then be held liable if the child is indeed sick, several I talked with today at work said they don't feel comfortable doing that

we are losing our minds as a country, really, that is so frightening to me.

Again, I went to work and saw all kinds of scary things, but hey, that's life.

and my daughter continues to deal with this bacteria resistant ear infection, which may end up hospitalizing her for the weekend, and may get worse. I am always amazed that people aren't more scared of drug resistant bacteria. and now people are pushing for tamiflu, why? We are just going to have resistant viruses, we accomplish nothing.

I'm going to read some more sites. I am saddened by all this hype. WE ARE CREATING THE CRISIS, NOT THE FLU!!!

My oldest daughter was supposed to go to south carolina to spend a few days interviewing for an apprentice position, and they let her know she is not welcome because I recently travelled to Mexico. Even though we are well past the incubation period, no signs of illness, and they have had local schools close due to confirmed cases, so they are more likely to get sick locally. Now, she is frustrated and may lose this position.

Again, stuff like this, WE ARE CREATING THE PROBLEM. This is worse than terrorism, because we are living in fear and stopping our lives, causing our children stress, it's so sad...

I hope some good comes from this, but I am growing fearful myself that we are going to be the end of ourselves by acting this way and destroying our own country and economy.


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Maggi - I hope your daughter's ear infection gets better soon.







And I totally agree with the fear of the flu and the repercussions of that fear having the potential to be far worse for our society than the actual flu.

To put this into perspective - does anyone remember that the flu season just last year in 07-08 was technically an epidemic? Just google "flu epidemic 2008" and you can find a bunch of links. In just St Louis county alone, they had 800 reported (probably more unreported) cases of flu in one week. This is in *one* county - compare to the just over 100 cases in one week in the whole US right now. There were 88 reported pediatric deaths (of course, more for adults and elderly) according to the CDC for the flu season of 2008. Does anyone remember schools closing? Not where I was. Maybe a blip on the news about a bad flu season and to be careful, but no panic and silliness going on.


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## Samhain Hunter (Oct 9, 2007)

:


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## emma1325 (May 23, 2005)

{Big Shock}

The WHO told ABC recently that the 150+ death toll for the swine flu (or whatever it is they're calling it now) is incorrect.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=807544

"A member of the World Health Organisation (WHO) has dismissed claims that more than 150 people have died from swine flu, saying it has officially recorded only seven deaths around the world..."

"Unfortunately that (150-plus deaths) is incorrect information and it does happen, but that's not information that's come from the World Health Organisation," Ms Allan told ABC Radio on Wednesday morning.

"That figure is not a figure that's come from the World Health Organisation and, I repeat, the death toll is seven and they are all from Mexico."

Ms Allan said WHO had confirmed 40 cases of swine flu in the Americas, 26 in Mexico, six in Canada, two in Spain, two in the UK and three in New Zealand.


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## lilya'smum (Mar 25, 2009)

They are more than a hundred confirmed cases in the US and one death, 99 confirmed cases in Mexico and 12 deaths so that makes a total of 13 deaths.

It's all very confusing though, they blamed swine flu for killing hundreds in Mexico, and then they just said it killed 12.


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## hummingmom (Apr 18, 2008)

From Dr. Tim O'Shea:

Swine Flu: Global Pandemic or Just Makin' Bacon?


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HealthEGoods* 
Flu season occurs typically when there is less sun exposure. This is linked to vitamin D deficiency.

Actually this is not correct. During the late fall and early winter months, when the days are shortest and sunlight exposure is lowest, flu does not circulate much in the U.S. Flu usually only gets a stronghold in the U.S. as sunlight is starting to INCREASE dramatically... as in late winter and early spring. Furthermore, there are many illnesses that are circulating the most in the warmer months, and Vitamin D exposure does not seem to help those individuals much. For example, an American child in say July 1950* got a lot of sun exposure (possibly too much!) and yet plenty of them were running around with measles, enteroviruses, paraviruses, coxsackie viruses, tick-borne illnesses, chicken pox, and other viruses known to be more comon in the spring and summer, not to mention food poisoning and other infections. The bottom line: the seasonality of viruses and bacterial infections is related to many things, but Vitamin D exposure is a weak at best contributor to most of them.

_(* I chose this example to avoid the "but kids don't go outside anymore" distraction or interference from the effect of today's vaccine program. The core point I'm trying to make is that Vitamin D levels hardly predict whether viruses are circulating, now or at any point in time.)_


----------



## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
From Dr. Tim O'Shea:

Swine Flu: Global Pandemic or Just Makin' Bacon?

WOW!! What an article! This is an absolute must-read......


----------



## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Actually this is not correct. During the late fall and early winter months, when the days are shortest and sunlight exposure is lowest, flu does not circulate much in the U.S. Flu usually only gets a stronghold in the U.S. as sunlight is starting to INCREASE dramatically... as in late winter and early spring. Furthermore, there are many illnesses that are circulating the most in the warmer months, and Vitamin D exposure does not seem to help those individuals much. For example, an American child in say July 1950* got a lot of sun exposure (possibly too much!) and yet plenty of them were running around with measles, enteroviruses, paraviruses, coxsackie viruses, tick-borne illnesses, chicken pox, and other viruses known to be more comon in the spring and summer, not to mention food poisoning and other infections. The bottom line: the seasonality of viruses and bacterial infections is related to many things, but Vitamin D exposure is a weak at best contributor to most of them.

_(* I chose this example to avoid the "but kids don't go outside anymore" distraction or interference from the effect of today's vaccine program. The core point I'm trying to make is that Vitamin D levels hardly predict whether viruses are circulating, now or at any point in time.)_

I think there has been a lot of writing on the fact that Vit D deficiency is pretty much rampant in the modern world. Whatever the cause of that, I think that regular Vit D supplements are not the answer and I believe they may in fact be toxic. Yes, sunlight exposure is very important for Vit D production and overall health. We can also get Vit D from raw milk, fermented cod liver oil and other sources. I'm not so well-versed in this but in general, supplements in the pill form seem inferior to food for nutrient sources, in function and form.

I think the breakdown in our immune systems come from many things. One is definitely lack of outdoor time, another is poor quality of food. But the list could go on and on. Excessive vaccinations, pollution, metal toxicity, lack of adequate rest, stress, blah, blah, blah.....

As to why the flu tends to occur in the spring, that I cannot guess. But it seems to me that people start talking about it in the autumn. I don't really pay attention to all that media hype, they just want people to take the vaccine, I think.....


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Oh, it's not as bad as they were saying not by a long shot. Why am I not surprised....


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

Anyone else feel as if this has ALREADY dropped off the radar a bit? Yesterday and today I feel like there have been no new cases, and less media coverage...hmm.


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## lachingona1 (May 16, 2007)

Here's Matthew's message.

Swine flu outbreak an Illuminati failed plan

http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/ppl.s...icle.asp?a=101


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## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
From Dr. Tim O'Shea:

Swine Flu: Global Pandemic or Just Makin' Bacon?

Although I think there are some good points in here, the author seems to not have a very good idea of the biology of viruses. He seems to infer that there is no way to distinguish a flu virus from in test rather than to say that it is a type A H1N1, which is incorrect. Most in-house testing does only determine a general class of virus (a lot of the current "suspected" cases), but there is further testing that can identify more information on the flu type (these take longer and usually by PCR). I also think by just calling this a "H1N1" virus by the media is very very misleading as there are lots of H1N1 flu viruses of various strains - many of them human in origin and have been circulating previously this flu season without too much hullabaloo (check out the CDC's weekly flu statistics). I think this can cause the general public to think any H1N1 virus is both of swine origin and a "deadly" virus. Although most H1N1 flu viruses do seem to be descended from the 1918 pandemic virus, this does not mean that they are all so deadly - they have been seen numerous times in the human population since then.

Another major flaw in the article is that the author seems to suggest is that this current swine flu is almost the same as the swine flu in 1976 because they are both called "swine flu", which is horribly inaccurate. Just as human flus can have various types and strains, so can swine flus. There are also other things in this article that I believe have flawed logic.

Although I don't like the current hype the media is giving us and disagree with a lot of the speculation and the way it is being handled, I also don't think that this is a huge conspiracy calculated over time to happen to us. Yeah, maybe they are using this as a good time to test out the pandemic plan made in 05 (which, BTW I am glad has been tested with a mild virus as I think things were caught *way* too late if it were a deadly one, but other than that I think it needs to be toned down). I am also sad that this seems to be an opportunity to push dangerous and ineffective drugs like Tamiflu and to push the vaccine agenda.

Here is a good link with some hard data and research results on H1N1 viruses (and others), how they have descended from the 1918 virus, and also information on swine flu viruses in the human population. It also is another confirmation that this swine flu is not so totally unexpected as many media sources have mentioned. Also some great (non-hyped) information on deaths and the different waves during the 1918 pandemic:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol12no01/05-0979.htm


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## girlsmamma2 (Jul 12, 2005)

well, today I heard on the local news the first of what i thought was a way for them to ramp down coverage, an excuse to me it seemed. They said that scientists had learned that this flu strain isn't as virulent and deadly because it lacked an amino acid in it that other deadlier flu strains did. I had just been thinking before i heard them say that, about how they are going to "get out" of covering this. Are they going to constantly tally each and every flu case from now until when exactly? What is going to be the excuse for going from full pandemic scare to 'hey, it was just he flu". I also felt like listening the the cdc spokesperson say the exact same thing day after day that he even feels like it's just not what they expected. Which is good but i"m still really mad that if they are wrong about this then we just showed each and every one of our cards to any terrorist that IS out there with a biological weapon. What is our solutionn to a highly communicable disease never seen before? Wash our hands and close schools. Wow. Heck, if we suspect a pandemic we don't even close the boarders, which I think was a telling sign that they didn't think this was as bad as they made it out to be, whether the horse was out of the barn yet or not...really. That just made no sense , "fear for your lives" but we'll still let the sick people come in, even though we have no idea what is going on".

After being REALLY worked up about this for two days straight, I'm starting to relax. I was thinking if it was really bad, you'd be seeing like 500 some cases a day, not a handful more.

I did hear on the radio yesterday, from the same cdc guy, that this vaccine will be a separate vaccine, as they can't take resources away from the seasonal flu vaccine. So whatever all of our decisions will be, at least it will be a separate one, and he did say "IF" they decide to do it. I'm hoping they won't.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I think there has been a lot of writing on the fact that Vit D deficiency is pretty much rampant in the modern world. Whatever the cause of that, I think that regular Vit D supplements are not the answer and I believe they may in fact be toxic. Yes, sunlight exposure is very important for Vit D production and overall health.

ITA. (I think most supplements are in fact dangerous but I guess that's a whole other thread!) I'd prefer a little good outdoor time over supplements any day.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
ITA. (I think most supplements are in fact dangerous but I guess that's a whole other thread!) I'd prefer a little good outdoor time over supplements any day.

me too! going out now....but no sunshine....where is the sun?!


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

sort of off topic, but I wonder if people living in sunny areas year-round have Vit D deficiency as well? Any studies? (I'm off to google!!!!)


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## joy2bmom (Aug 3, 2006)

I started out paniced about this flu but now, not so much. Way too many different views on it! Is it killing young healthy people? Is it gonna mutate into a deadly virus? Is it gonna be a pandemic? These are the questions everyone wants to know the answers to but i don't think we're gonna get an answer to it, at least not "ONE" definate answer. Define "healthy" "young" people for me. If you talk to most people if they're the right weight, age, strong, and "appear" to be healthy then automatically they are healthy but do we know that for sure? How do we know what they do? My brother was very healthy looking, young, strong, and the perfect weight but he died anyway







But if anyone knew what he did behind closed doors they would question whether he was healthy. His diet wasn't great, and he drank quite a bit. So can we say the people in 1918 were all "healthy"? Can we say that everyone that is dieing from this flu is "healthy"? Do you know them? Do you know what their medical records show? Chances are we don't know. I do feel bad for those families that have lost loved ones







But we need to stop reading all these different views on this flu and stop arguing about it and realize that there is SO many other things to worry and argue about








Sorry,,,didn't mean to go on a rant but i hate to see so many people Panic from something that no one knows enough about. Just Be Happy







:


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## Ducky5306 (Jul 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
me too! going out now....but no sunshine....where is the sun?!

Its over here!







In Florida!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaraBoo* 
sort of off topic, but I wonder if people living in sunny areas year-round have Vit D deficiency as well? Any studies? (I'm off to google!!!!)

Because we all stay indoors because its "too hot"







(I am guilty of this too)


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## DharmaDisciple (Feb 7, 2002)

Over here in the UK, a man has caught swine flu from a friend who had been to Mexico. He is the first in our country to have caught it person-person without any link to Mexico. 2 children who were on the plane from Mexico have also got it.

It said on our news tonight that scientists here are working on a vaccine that will take a few weeks to make then a few months to mass produce!!!!


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I believe the doctors in Mexico who say they believe there have been well over 200 deaths. I trust the first-hand reports of MDs on the battleground over governments or international organizations any day. They have no reason to lie. They're saying they see 20-30 year olds dying in front of them in the ICU, and no one taking the correct numbers from them re: mortality rates.


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## sugareemoma (Jan 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingmom* 
From Dr. Tim O'Shea:

Swine Flu: Global Pandemic or Just Makin' Bacon?

Interesting article, I wish I could convince my dds father that it is true. He only believes it if it is on CNN. Sigh...


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Another reason we don't use A/C in the summer. I've noticed when it was on, we never went outside b/c the difference in temps was so obvious and awful to bear. Now in or out it feels good - no big shock to the system.


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## wantingagirl2b#4 (Jul 4, 2006)

I had to comment on this because I thought taking all the right vitamins, bioflavonoids etc. was doing the best I could do. I asked my chiro after not seeing her for probably more than a year now~ why I am so susceptible to Pneumonia and she said because your neck x rays show your neck straight! WOW!! Still stage one and very fixable but sometimes we think we are doing all we can and it is the little things we may overlook! Just wanted to share my exp. with others.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I've read that the reason they are so worried about it is that none of the fatalities so far are young children or the elderly. Hence the whole '1918' comparison. Honestly, other than taking my usual precautions of frequent hand sanitizing (with the alcohol based purell), and eating really well to keep my immune system up, I don't think there's much I can do. From the sounds of it, it will take a lot longer than a week for things to calm down, especially since it's already spread pretty far north.

Ami


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/med_swine...dpbmVmbHVtYXli

Who's going vegetarian?







Meee!


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/med_swine...dpbmVmbHVtYXli

Who's going vegetarian?







Meee!

why are you going vegetarian?


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## anamama (Sep 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birdiefu* 
Although I think there are some good points in here, the author seems to not have a very good idea of the biology of viruses. He seems to infer that there is no way to distinguish a flu virus from in test rather than to say that it is a type A H1N1, which is incorrect. Most in-house testing does only determine a general class of virus (a lot of the current "suspected" cases), but there is further testing that can identify more information on the flu type (these take longer and usually by PCR). I also think by just calling this a "H1N1" virus by the media is very very misleading as there are lots of H1N1 flu viruses of various strains - many of them human in origin and have been circulating previously this flu season without too much hullabaloo (check out the CDC's weekly flu statistics). I think this can cause the general public to think any H1N1 virus is both of swine origin and a "deadly" virus. Although most H1N1 flu viruses do seem to be descended from the 1918 pandemic virus, this does not mean that they are all so deadly - they have been seen numerous times in the human population since then.

Another major flaw in the article is that the author seems to suggest is that this current swine flu is almost the same as the swine flu in 1976 because they are both called "swine flu", which is horribly inaccurate. Just as human flus can have various types and strains, so can swine flus. There are also other things in this article that I believe have flawed logic.


I think that you are saying the same thing the author is saying. He says that the media calling this virus H1N1 is far too broad and that there are dozens of strains of H1N1. He goes on to say that to identify The Flu that is the topic of the moment in these small villages in Mexico is possible, but would take some forethought and resources.
As for the "Swine Flu" terminology, he is saying that there was really no "Swine Flu" in the '70's, and there is no "Swine Flu" now. That is the only way he is likening the two. He describes how awkward it must have been for Obama to change the name of this worrisome flu because there is no actual link between the two viral strains.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Did you guys read about the new mom who died from "swine flu?" At first, I was wondering how in world she DIED from it but the article mentioned she had undisclosed chronic health problems. That kind of goes against the idea that healthy people are dying...


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## Ducky5306 (Jul 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaraBoo* 
Did you guys read about the new mom who died from "swine flu?" At first, I was wondering how in world she DIED from it but the article mentioned she had undisclosed chronic health problems. That kind of goes against the idea that healthy people are dying...


Quote:

Texas health officials stopped short of saying that swine flu caused Trunnell's death. State health department spokeswoman Carrie Williams said the schoolteacher had "chronic underlying health conditions" but wouldn't give any more details.
She died early Tuesday after being hospitalized since *April 19*, said Leonel Lopez, Cameron County epidemiologist.

They also delivered her baby while she was in a coma.. its just a sad story altogether..


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

*Heal the Gut:* http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071

The gut is 70-80% of the immune system. Consume whole food probiotics.

Pat


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## Manonash (Jun 2, 2006)

I went to a link on page 9 (I think that's the page) about what to take and not to take to prevent cytokine storm. I read that Vit C megadoses was supposed to suppress TNF-a and IL-6, so I started trying to find studies to back this up. I haven't been able to find any. If someone knows of any, please share the links. All I have found is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942423
which suggests that Vit C enhances cytokine production.

Off to read the rest of the thread. Please forgive me if this has been covered.

Thanks!


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

I haven't been worried about any of this yet, but it is kind of alarming to see how much the number of confirmed cases goes up every couple days.


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## marimara (Jan 31, 2008)

Has anyone read the book "Beating the Flu: The Natural Prescription for Surviving Pandemic Influenza and Bird Flu" by J.E. Williams, O.M.D. I have (just got it from the library) it's mostly about regular influenza and about a possible pandemic bird flu (it was written in 2006). It's interesting to note that scientists have been predicting this for a while but no one ever predicted a cross of swine and human and avian flu. Also, from what I've read this flu outbreak now is no worse than the common influenza (right now).

His 'prescription' is mostly common sense stuff, wash your hands ,avoid sick people, crowded places. He talks about herbs (chinese and western) that may help or that have helped with the bird flu outbreak in previous years. He says Astralagus as well as Echinacea (all varieties), elderberry, ginseng and licorice all fight influenza. For kids, he recommends colostrum and beta-glucan, echinacea an elderberry. It's an interesting read.

But I did read that echinacea and elderberry are normally helpful for regular type flu but may increase risk of cytokine storm.

Here is a link with natural antivirals. I'm not sure if it's already been posted being that I didn't read ALL 24 pages


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## Hopesmommy (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:
Texas health officials stopped short of saying that swine flu caused Trunnell's death. State health department spokeswoman Carrie Williams said the schoolteacher had "chronic underlying health conditions" but wouldn't give any more details.
She died early Tuesday after being hospitalized since *April 19*, said Leonel Lopez, Cameron County epidemiologist.

I'd like to know what her "chronic underlying health conditions" were. I mean, she was capable of working full-time and already had a four year old dd.


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## Ducky5306 (Jul 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hopesmommy* 
Quote:

I'd like to know what her "chronic underlying health conditions" were. I mean, she was capable of working full-time and already had a four year old dd.


Me too, thats the only info they gave..


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## KimPM (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hopesmommy* 
I'd like to know what her "chronic underlying health conditions" were. I mean, she was capable of working full-time and already had a four year old dd.

They didn't say her health conditions were disabling...just that they were chronic...like diabetes, or a non-disabling autoimmune disorder, or severe asthma,...

FWIW, they also said the 2-year old Mexican child who was brought to the US who later died also had underlying medical conditions.

ETA: Just saw a story on the chronic health problems of both ....
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1665136

The child's health problems were: a chronic muscle weakness called myasthenia gravis, a heart defect, a swallowing problem and lack of oxygen.
The woman's health problems were: asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, and psoriasis, as well as being 35 weeks pregnant (how much do you want to bet she was being treated with corticosteroids and therefore her immune system was weakened by that).


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## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

We were just notified that there were two children in dds elementary school that were tested positive for swine flu and they were given tamiflu and are recovering. They are disinfecting the school, but they aren't shutting it down, so I guess that's a good thing.

They have all the state health officials and the CDC and epidemiologists advising them to keep the school open, to follow regular handwashing procedures, and to just be cautious and keep any kids with coughs or sneezes home until symptom free.

In this article they are saying it's just not as bad as it could be so I guess all the freak out was for (almost) nothing.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=10315841


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Does anyone have a link that details the symptoms?

DD (age 2), DH and I have what I thought was a normal flu but it's presenting rather strangely. DD (who has scarring in one lung and is usually hit hard with everything) has recovered fine, but DH and I are still very sick, which I find extremely strange since we are both normally in great health. Our oldest two DD's have not gotten sick at all.

We have: headaches, chills, coughing and congestion (a lot of mucus), runny nose, sore throat, body aches. The thing that worries me is the lack of fever (which I read could be a symptom of swine flu).

I don't plan on going to the Dr. but we will continue to stay out of public until we are feeling better.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I saw they increased the incubation period up to 7 to 10 days, is that what others have seen? I also read the actual virus can only leave for a few hours on surfaces.

So that tells me that shutting schools is ridiculous, first of all, if the virus only lives a few hours, then by each morning, it is already dead. And second, with that long of an incubation period, and the fact that people are contagious before they have symptoms means that the students will be infecting each other anyway.

Our school district just changed their policy, after people like me kept complaining and emailing. They wanted every student who was going to an infected county or state to contact the principal and then they had to stay home for 3 days.

that's insane, a waste of the principals time, and totally ineffective!!! And all these kids are panicking, upset they are missing school at the end of the year, and a waste of the taxpayers money.

We live in southern Pa, we are very close to several state borders and close to several affected counties. Really, it's just a matter of time before it comes to our county, so the focus should be on how to deal with it (in a logical non-hysterical way) not have to prevent it.

And seriously, the nurse is coming on the loudspeaker now every day in the middle school and hanging posters all over the place about washing hands. The kids should be taught that ALL THE TIME, not just now. My 8th grader told me that everyone thinks it a joke and that especially the boys are making a joke out of it by acting out, rubbing their hands all over each other, etc. Typical middle school stuff.

that's my rant for now! We have been sick this week, both my boys and now, today, me. if this is the swine flu, then it's really not that bad, we've been much sicker. We are way past even the updated incubation period, but I stayed home from work today just in case, I would feel bad if I spread it.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

*THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT RESTRICTING FREEDOM OF INFORMATION, AND CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN THE CDC.*

ALERT: Special Swine Flu Update
Source: articles.mercola.com
Urgent and vital information you need to know about the massive amount of disinformation that the media has recently escalated as best demonstrated by 60 Minutes segment on Swine Flu which aired this past Sunday.

Pat


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## carfreemama (Jun 13, 2007)

Must go to appointment. Cannot pull myself away from this. Can't wait to finish watching. Incredible! Thanks, WuWei!


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## mama1803 (Mar 4, 2008)

If anyone is interested, they are discussing the delay in the H1N1 vaccine.


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