# my fetal reduction (please only read if you have supportive things to say)



## seanjoshmom (Apr 18, 2002)

I think this is the place to come. I went through infertility treatments for almost a year before becoming pregnant with quadruplets. It was so overwhelming, since I had found out I was pregnant a few days before I left for South Africa for the AIDS conference in 2000. I remember in my hotel room being able to feel my uterus through my abdomen and thinking "I am only five weeks, how come I can feel my uterus already? I wonder if I have multiples?" Of course, I started bleeding over there, and called my infertility doctor, who recommended I come in for a sono when I returned. My husband picked me up from the airport after a 24 hour long flight, and we went straight to the office. When the sono showed four babies, three had heartbeats and one did not. That fourth one never grew, and just resorbe eventually. The doc's immediate recommendations were to have a fetal reduction from quads to twins, to reduce the morbidity of pregnancy and risk of permature delivery etc. I was stunned. I was starving. I took the number of a doctor who did the procedure and left. I ate for five at lunch. Then I went to Nepal to train docs and midwives there. I was numb and depressed. Why? Why did I have to make such a choice--keep all four with the attendant risks, or abort two and take the risk of losing a pregnancy I had waited so long for? To my husband, there was no choice, we were not going to have four babies--we couldn't handle it. Well, as I said, only three babies remained. The data on triplets versus twins was more encouraging. Though in general, triplets delivered earlier than twins, there was no data to show that reduction made a difference. But could we handle three? I was counseled to have a CVS because of my age and a 1/100 chance of a genetic disorder. I did it, and it turned out one of the babies was genetically abnormal. I chose to abort that baby. I didn't watch as they injected potassium chloride into his heart and waited until it stopped beating. My husband held my hand, watched and was sad. I ended up having a totally uncomplicated remainder of the pregnancy, and have two healthy beautiful boys, now 18 months. My husband and I have fought alot, struggled with the sheer magnitude of the work involved, and the changes in our relationship, but we are really happy in our family and feel so blessed. But, after my boys were born I had a few dreams about my third baby. In one dream, he looked exactly like one of my twins, but much smaller, and we kept him in the basement. In another, he was born with the other two, but was just a mass of blood, like a clot. In another, he was actually in one of my twins' bowel movements. I have dismissed thoughts of him since then, but every now and then, and more so recently, maybe because I feel myself wanting another baby, I find myself thinkinf of him and what he would have been like. I miss him and the fact that I didn't get to know him. I feel guilty that I made the decision to terminate his life. I am a Christian, but I believe abortion should be legal and women should be able to make the choices they need to make to keep themselves mentally and physically intact, and able to support their families. As an ob/gyn, I have never done one, but I struggle also with the guilt that I am not providing a service I say women should be able to get--especially since I had one myself. As a mother, I feel guilty that I denied the life of my fetus, and the potential he may have had in this world. What should I do? The only people who know (besides the many who may read this) are my husband, my brother, three friends, and my former boss). I need resources for this grief work. . .


----------



## ComeOnLetsGo (Nov 19, 2001)

seanjoshmom~ I am sending healing vibes your way. I have never been through anything like what you have endured, but I am glad that you realize your need to grieve. My advice would be to give into the process, and continue to cherish those two blessings that you have. You sound like a strong, loving woman...Sean and Josh are blessed boys.


----------



## SoHappy (Nov 19, 2001)

Oh, sweetie, you sound so sad. I'm sorry I don't have answers, just some hugs. Do you know any ob/gyns who DO perform abortions? Maybe you could confide in one. They usually have a resource list of counselors for their patients, which might be a good start. You were in a terrible situation and I'm so sorry you had to face a decision like that. You don't deserve to be tormented by your dreams, even if their job is to force you to find help to come to terms with the difficult actions you had to take. You are a brave and loving woman who has been through a lot. You deserve some relief from your pain. Best of luck finding someone who can help you work through this.


----------



## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

There are very few online resources about fetal reduction - http://www.inciid.org used to have one, may still, and http://www.fertilethoughts.com had one too. Dr. Evans and Wapner at Hahnemann Hospital in Philadelphia (215-762-4000) are widely published in this area, and may have some resouces for you. Unfortunately, due to the current climate, few women of the many in fertility treatment who face this, talk about it.

If you get any hate mail from this, report it to a moderator immediately!


----------



## GruppieGirl (Feb 19, 2002)

I wish I had something sage to say. All I can offer are my supportive thoughts.

You sound like a strong, thoughtful and caring woman. Best of luck to you.


----------



## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

such a difficult thing, and such complicated feelings... I think it is good that your dreams are reminding you to do the work of grieving, and I hope strongly that you find the right person to help you through this, so that you can come to peace with your choice, and perhaps even to see it as the loving choice of a good mother.
Give those boys of yours a hug, and remind yourself that you chose their life...

(((hugs)))


----------



## Missgrl (Nov 18, 2001)

Your baby was real. Your loss is real. Your feelings and grief are real!
Talking about it is the best medicine. Let your feelings out and you will become free.
I hope letting some of the bottled up gried here has helped you some. I encourage you to keep talking and don't blame yourself for past decisions. Remember the one you let go, but concentrate on the two boys you have now and give them all of you!
Good luck
{{{{{hugs}}}}}


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Cat, being that I have never walked in your shoes I could never judge you. I too underwent infertility treatments and the potential of multiples was always present. I really don't know what I would have done in your situation.

It sounds like you made a decision with a great deal of pain in your heart - I send you warm and gentle thoughts.

Your dreams sound so normal. Greif is a process - a journey. You have many paths to follow on this journey. One is to find a way to let go of the guilt. This is going to be a very difficult path to follow. You'll need to dig deep into yourslef and know that you made the best decision for you and your family. Eventually, you'll come to a point where you can let go of the guilt, but, please be patient and gentle with yourself.

My dd was a twin, but I lost the other early on. I too wonder about this child. Would it have been a boy or girl? How would it interact with it's sister? What would our life be like with this child?

Did you name your other two babies? Have you found a way to momorialize them? I find it's helpful for many mothers to do this. Find a way to acknowledge their childs life and existance.


----------



## Mcaws (Nov 20, 2001)

I too had ivf. I did it 4 times. The first one (each one was three embryos) resulted in one child and the last one resulted in one child. The first time, I too had a "fantom twin" with my son. The sac was empty and there never was a heart beat or anything. It was just re-absorbed, like you said. I don't think of that as my child because at the very early stage of blastocyst, it naturally absorbed into my body. I have not grieved that loss, however, I can tell you that did feel confusion. the dr told me one week I was having twins and the next that I wasn't. Both you and I have been blessed with living, loving children to concentrate on









I had to struggle with dreams about another child though. I dreamed after one of the unsuccessful attempts that the child was partially formed and I birthed on the toilet only a blood clot with an arm and leg. I am mentioning this only because I ....I don't want to say "got over it" but nothing else comes to mind....anyway, I did recover from that dream by plenty of crying and praying and much speaking with my best friend.

Like others said, be gentle with yourself. Dreams serve a puprpse. Even if it is just for rememberance. You will never forget your lost son. We will all be sending healing vibes your way! ((((gentle hugs))))


----------



## seanjoshmom (Apr 18, 2002)

Really, thank-you all so much for listening. Yesterday when I wrote this post, I couldn't think about anything else for hours. I was so upset and hyped up, as if I'd drunk a pot of coffee. I Do have a lot of work to do. My husband, though he said he never thinks about our other baby, was a really good listener yesterday, and reassured me, as you all did, that we made the best choice for our family. Clarity, I had my procedures done by Wapner--the guy is a nut, though he is excellent at what he does. He was talking about football and Survivor while he was stabbin gme int he abdomen with needles! I was appalled--especially because he knew my DH and I were in the same profession!!! Anyway, I actually work at the hospital where he used to be, and one of his nurses is very compassionate--maybe I should talk with her about further resources. She is going through IVF herself. . .


----------



## lamplighter (Nov 20, 2001)

((((hugs)))) Cat, I am thinking of you and hope that you have a safe way of journeying through this time in your life. Writing or painting or gardening? All these things I did to help mysef through my journey of grief. Just really be good to yourself.

You are in my thoughts,

Beth


----------



## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I am so sorry for your pain. I have never had to go through something like that and can't imagine what I would do if I was in such a situation.


----------



## emmaline (Dec 16, 2001)

Dear Cat

this group has little posted on their website but they are very helpful if you get in touch by email, esp to find resources near you

http://www.climb-support.org/index.html

I hope you can find some healing around these heartrending issues

e


----------



## seanjoshmom (Apr 18, 2002)

Hi, emmaline, thanks, I will email them today.


----------



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Thank you so much for telling me to come read this.I actually drew stregnth from your story.You are right,our stories are different,but the feelings are the same and the experiences are very real.
Like you so eloquently told me,allow your self to feel what every you are feeling,dont try to push them aside.You have every right to grieve.Be kind to yourself,(((((((((much hugs to you))))))))))))))


----------



## Theo's Mama (Jul 25, 2002)

Cat,

Hi,

Wow, I doubt I can add much wisdom to what others have written, but I did want to send my supportive thoughts your way. I am pregnant with twins, and also implanted 4 embryos. I was so grateful I didn't have to face fetal reduction, but I have miscarried a few times, and do know about grieving for lost babies. Even when you let go of the pain, and I think one day you will be able to, they are always in your heart. What felt so wierd to me as I was waiting to see if I was pregnant, was that I was hoping for SOMETHING to implant, but PLEASE not all four! That felt like I couldn't really think totally positive thoughts. . .

I hope this doesn't sound trite, because I am in no way trying to minimalize your loss, but I know many people who have undergone multiple IVF procedures and never gotten a pregnancy. You have two beautiful boys to love, but you will never forget the babies you have lost. You are wise to recognize that you need to grieve their loss. Men handle loss differently, and your dh might not even realize he is mourning them, but I am glad he was able to listen and that you are finding ways to talk to others.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Cat - I am in awe of your strength in dealing with twins while grieving for your lost babies. I have been blessed with two normal pregnancies, so havent experienced anything like this.

The only relevant thing (I think) that I have to say is that my mum lost a baby girl at full term some forty years ago. I still wonder about my sister, and I know that my siblings do too. I wonder what she would be doing now, where she'd be living, what children she might have had, how my life and my family's life would have been enriched if she'd have survived (which she would have done with today's medical advances).

My mum never got the support or go-ahead to grieve for her lost child. Everyone seemed to think that she should be OK because she had other healthy children. I believe that this influenced her relationships with me and my siblings. Thankfully nowadays it is seen as healthy to grieve. I think it is imperative that you seek some sort of help to deal with your loss.


----------



## Loretta (Sep 13, 2002)

Hey Seanjoshmom,

I want to send my thoughts and support with you as you process this grief. It is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation and it will run its course, if you give it room to do so. It can be so painful that you might be tempted to run away from it but, with support and time, that pain will abate. I, too, have lost a child through what could be called "my decision" - I lost a child to adoption 27 years ago. I buried my grief and it has come up at various times over the years, and especially when he and I were reunited last year. So, you're wise to walk this journey for awhile and when you don't need to anymore, you won't. I will be thinking of you along the way...


----------



## seanjoshmom (Apr 18, 2002)

Thanks again, all it is so helpful to come here and read yoru responses, which are so affirming. Theo's Mama, thanks for reminding me about the fact that I was successful in conceiving. I remember what it was like to try month after month and have nothing happen, and I think of my friends who are have as yet been unable to conceive despite like 7 years of trying. Now THAT is pain, and I am glad that I have been spared that sorrow. Perspective always helps. Lorretta--now YOU are a strong woman--I think my heart would break to give away my child--I am in awe of your strength. At the same time, how sweet to be reunited.


----------



## Theo's Mama (Jul 25, 2002)

Life is so sweet and so full of so many kinds of losses. Reading this makes me appreciate what I have and hold on to those I love. And those we have lost will always be with us in our hearts. Thank you all for sharing your stories.


----------



## Theo's Mama (Jul 25, 2002)

Cat,

I'm so glad it was ok to remind you about the wonder of conception--I worried all night that I'd said something wrong. After infertility myself, I am thankful all the time that I was one of the ones who got lucky. Not that that luck isn't often tinged with sadness of other losses. Be strong.


----------



## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

Jeannine Parvati Baker has some excellent healing rituals for abortion in her book Conscious Conception. The book itself is an excellent resource - she's just tops! I am not a "ritual kind of person," but have been working towards one for some time since the late second trimester abortion I had earlier this year. Working in women's health while not performing abortions does create interesting questions as well. Naomi Wolf's book *Misconceptions* has a few anecdotes about the choices involved in fertility treatments/fetal reduction etc. Reading, as you can tell, is my best therapy!

I send you lots of love - I feel great regret that the subtext of the post ("only supportive things to say") was necessary. Abortion is part of our experience; not everyone responds the same way or chooses it for the same reasons. But the whole of that woman and her experience should always be most highly honored. I've been told to be grateful for the daughter I do have, but I can be grateful for one thing while being distressed by something else. No one here questions your gratitude for the good things, I am sure, and I hope the love everyone has sent has been some comfort to you.


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

LizD - thank you for your honesty and heart felt response. As I've said, I've never walked in your shoes - so I have no right to judge you - or anyone else.

Loosing a child isn't easy for any woman. I can only imagine that making a choice to end a pregnancy or have a 'fetal reduction' is not something you women have made lightly. You are brave for coming here and sharing this and I extend my love and support to you









Having a 'ritual' or 'memorial' would be very helpful to validate the life that graced you if only for a short time. It would also help you heal as you travel through your greif.


----------



## indigolilybear (Nov 28, 2001)

i am sorry to hear of your pain. i had an abortion and it still grieves me to this day. It is such a complicated experience to got through! (BTW, and i too believe that it should be legal.) However, the truth is for many women, it is still painful. anyway, i thought i'd offer a poem that helped me immensely during my grieving process. I hope it's not too....well, anything. but it really helped me articulate how impossible/difficult it is to express the grief of this experience.

i wish you healing.

"the Mother" by gwendolyn brooks

Abortions will not let you forget.
You remember the children you got that you did not get,
The damp small pulps with a little or with no hair,
The singers and workers that never handled the air.
You will never neglect them or beat
Them, or silence or buy with a sweet.
You will never wind up the sucking-thumb
Or scuttle off the ghosts that come.
You will never leave them, controlling your lucious sigh,
Return for a snack of them, with gobbling mother-eye.

I have heard in the voices of the wind the voices of my dim killed children.
I have contracted. I have eased
My dim dears at the breasts they could never suck.
I have said, Sweets, if I sinned, if I seized
Your luck
And your lives from your unfinished reach,
If I stole your births and your names,
Your straight baby tears and your games,
Your stilted or lovely loves, your tumults, your marriages, aches,
and your deaths,
If I poisoned the beginnings of your breaths,
Believe that even in my deliberateness I was not deliberate.
Though why should I whine,
Whine that the crime was other than mine?--
Since anyhow you are dead.
Or rather, or instead,
You were never made.
But that too, I am afraid,
Is faulty: oh, what shall I say, how is the truth to be said?
You were born, you had a body, you died.
It is just that you never giggled or planned or cried.

Believe me, I loved you all.
Believe me, I knew you, though faintly, and I loved, I loved you
All.


----------



## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Thank you, what a beautiful poem.


----------



## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

Oh, what an incredible emotional journey! We are meant to have support in times of difficulty, just as in times of joy. I have a doctorate in psychology and can pretty easily find clinicians in other states. Feel free to PM me if you'd like some help finding someone warm and supportive to help you do this work. I'd be glad to help you in whatever way I can.

-Rachel


----------



## seanjoshmom (Apr 18, 2002)

Thanks again, all. That is a beautiful poem.


----------



## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

My thougts are with you. YOu are strong a responsibale woman. You did the right thing. The baby is not just a body but a soul. Body is just a house for the soul. You baby was not provided with the right house but now the babies soul is in the right house maybe a block away or thousand miles away . Your essentialy gave this soul a gift, a chance for a better life than it could had in the genetically defective body.
We are not meant, by nature, to have 5,6,7,8 children on a regular basis, and so, we must take charge
Congradulation on your twins!


----------



## Boymama3 (16 d ago)

I came across this while working through my grief over a reduction from quads to twins in 2006. My twin boys are 15 and I still struggle with feelings of guilt and shame. While, I do believe we made the best decision for our babies and our family. It is a decision I struggle with frequently. I have just started seeing a counselor trying to deal with the complex feelings. We have not shared with our boys or other children what we went through, my husband is extremely supportive and has always reminded me that it was a decision we made together. I encourage you to find someone to talk to sooner rather than later, 15 years later, I am still dealing with the trauma of that decision. I wish you all the best, I’m so glad to hear you have to healthy boys like I do.


----------

