# Car seat and beanstalk baby



## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I am very worried!
I recently transfered my 18 month old from an infant rear facing car seat to a front facing car seat for babies a year and above. I recently had her weighed - she weighs 8 kg. Her hight is 78 cm, she is long and skinny. The car seat instructions say not to put it forward facing till the baby is 9 kg. She is too tall to be rear facing! The shoulder straps are tight on her shoulders, but don't touch her body from the shoulders down to the waist. Sometimes I see that a strap is close to the elbow, and not around her shoulder. Once I saw that she had gotten out of one shoulder strap entirely. I am very concerned! I sent an e-mail to the company - Safety 1st, but have not received a reply yet. I tried re-adjusting the padding, but I really don't know what to do.


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## chely7425 (Aug 8, 2007)

I would get a new seat. My son is 31 inches and 24 pounds (not sure what the is in cms/kgs) but he is still RF just fine. My older son could actually still be RF but we just turned him around.


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## MariesMama (Sep 26, 2008)

Which seat are you using?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Where are you located? UK? CA? AU?

Your baby absolutely needs to be rearfacing at under 20lbs (9kg is 19.8lbs). If she is not fitting well in the infant seat, then you need another rearfacing seat. In the US, they're commonly called convertible seats, and will hold a child to about 30-40lbs rearfacing. They'll also have a much taller shell to accommodate the taller child.

Be sure, in any seat, that the straps are snug on the child. Rearfacing, they should come up from slots that are below her shoulders, then wrap over her shoulders. If you are in a country where a chest clip is used (some European nations don't use them), it should be at her armpit level. That will definitely help prevent her from moving straps, but a snug strap shouldn't move much, anyway.

When looking at a new seat, make sure you get one with a front-adjuster for the strap length and tightening. That way, you can adjust it every time you put her in, and ensure she's safe and secure on every ride.


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## Mrs-Mama (Jul 2, 2007)

Have you tried installing it rear-facing? At that height, she should not be too tall for rear-facing. My DD is taller than that and still RFing...she just folds her legs or flops them over the side to be comfortable. If you turn it back around, remember to re-adjust the straps so that they are at or below shoulder height.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If the OP is not in the US, she may be using a carseat with significantly less rearfacing capacity than we are used to in the US. Some UK and AU carseats truly do not accommodate tall rearfacing babies.

OP, what country are you in, and exactly what seat are you using?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Okay I converted the numbers 17 and a half pounds and 34 inches.

She is much too tall to be rear facing and she is 18 mo.
I have a Babygold by Safety 1st, it is a convertible and can be placed rf, and it has a front adjuster.

The instructions in the booklet say the straps should be above the shoulders not from below wrapping up-wards, but I will try that. Is your advise about the straps for rf only?

It does not come with a chest clip. Can I buy one separately? What would a chest clip do to the baby's chest in a crash?

What do you think of getting extra padding?

I can't afford to buy a new seat, I just bought 2 of these!


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I am from Israel, here is the link to the car seat:
http://www.motsesim.co.il/store/prod...99&lang=hebrew


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Can you clarify where you are? Also, what are the stated weight limits on the seat for rearfacing?

For height rearfacing, your child's head needs to be at least 1" (2.4cm) below the top of the shell of the seat, and the the straps need to come from a slot at or below the child's shoulders. (This is NOT the case for forward facing, where they need to come at or above.) As long as she is within these guidelines, her total height is irrelevant. For instance, long legs can be comfortably curled up, but her head is the part that needs protection from the seat.

ETA: Thanks for the location and link! We cross-posted.


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

I don't read Hebrew, but it looks like maybe it says rearfacing up to 10kg? If so, that's 22lbs, which makes sense. Since she is only 8kg, you still have some good room for weight, at least, to keep her rearfacing.

As for the chest clip, if it doesn't come with it, you can't use it. In the US, they are nearly always used to keep the straps in proper position. In other countries, they have other methods of keeping them in proper position.

DO NOT add extra padding. You need to snug the straps, not add padding that will compress in a crash and leave her with loose straps and no protection.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I think she is within the limit, but she was not comfortable rear facing in the infant car seat, and this one cannot be placed in the front.
I also don't understand the difference: the problem is the straps don't hold her, not witch way the seat is facing. I like the idea of a clip, could you suggest one?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

This is a new seat, right? Not the infant one? She is too small to be forward facing, so if at all possible (and it sounds like it is), she needs to be rearfacing. It's the safest way for her to travel. In a bigger, cushier seat like the new one, she will have a very different ride and experience than in an infant seat. Many children who don't like their infant seats are MUCH happier in a rearfacing convertible seat.

Unfortunately, you can't add a chest clip if it's not permitted by the manufacturer. Basic rule is, if it doesn't come with the seat, don't use it. This goes for anything - padding, buckles, etc. Of course, if you contact them and they approve it, that's fine. But your seat should be quite functional without it.

If the straps are not snug on her, then they need to be tightened. That's essential, regardless of which way she is facing. Are the issues with straps coming off of her shoulders in the current seat, or in the old seat?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

My problem is with the straps of the new seat. I don't think the direction of the seat will solve this problem. I would rather have her facing forward, so that I can see her, she can see me and her surroundings. I need a solution with the straps. I just sent another e-mail to the company asking about a clip. You'd think they would promptly reply when a baby is in a dangerous situation in one of their seats!


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Strap rear facing need to be at or below the shoulders. Straps for forward facing need to be at or above the shoulders. So depending on how you have your child front or rear, you will need to move the straps in the slots in the seat. You cannot use or buy a chest clip for the seat, if the straps aren't on your child, you need to adjust them to the proper height. In the USA, chest clips are not used for keeping the straps on the child either, they aren't made to take any sort of impact weight, they just position the straps in order to tighten them properly.

I also really encourage you to turn your baby rear facing...meet Joel, he might help you understand why it is so important...http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read...g_Joel_s_Story


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BathrobeGoddess* 
Strap rear facing need to be at or below the shoulders. Straps for forward facing need to be at or above the shoulders. So depending on how you have your child front or rear, you will need to move the straps in the slots in the seat. You cannot use or buy a chest clip for the seat, if the straps aren't on your child, you need to adjust them to the proper height. In the USA, chest clips are not used for keeping the straps on the child either, they aren't made to take any sort of impact weight, they just position the straps in order to tighten them properly.

I also really encourage you to turn your baby rear facing...meet Joel, he might help you understand why it is so important...http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read...g_Joel_s_Story

Though I know in Europe some of the seats are above for rfing. So the OP should read her manual to make sure she is using the seat properly.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Though I know in Europe some of the seats are above for rfing. So the OP should read her manual to make sure she is using the seat properly.

Very true but she did say in an earlier post that her child has not yet met the weight requirement to FF in this seat, was not yet 9kg, so if the child is truly too tall to RF in this seat, the OP will need to purchase a new seat that can accommodate her tall, skinny baby RF until her child has met the weight limit for forward facing.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Oh, agreed the child should be rfing. Just saying when she does she should check her manual for correct harness height placement because it's not the same everywhere.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
Oh, agreed the child should be rfing. Just saying when she does she should check her manual for correct harness height placement because it's not the same everywhere.

Ah...I see! I misunderstood...I thought you meant the child's height not the strap height. That is crazy though...I would think physics of the child moving too far up in the seat work the same way in Europe as they do here in North America


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I have her FF because of hight and to be able to see her. The problem is not the hight of the straps, the problem is the width. She is narrow and thin. The straps come off because she has narrow shoulders, and because from the shoulders to the waist the straps do not touch her body. Neither FF nor RF would solve the problem. A clip armpit high would keep the straps on her. You say that I cannot purchase one separately?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

You cannot safely use an aftermarket chest clip on a seat that was not designed for one.

The child cannot use that seat forward-facing: she is too small. And she would be much safer rear-facing anyhow.

Are the straps as tight as they can be? If so, it seems as if the seat simply isn't a good fit for the child. Take her with you next time you go carseat shopping.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I took her with me. The guy there set it all up with her in it. These are salespeople, what do they know? I don't think they will replace the car seat, it has been with me a month. I will contact the company, yet again, maybe they have a clip they can add to the straps.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
I took her with me. The guy there set it all up with her in it. These are salespeople, what do they know? I don't think they will replace the car seat, it has been with me a month. I will contact the company, yet again, maybe they have a clip they can add to the straps.

You have been given a lot of great advice on this thread. Do they have car seat techs in Israel? I don't know if the store will take the seat back or not but even if they don't, if you can't get the straps adjusted properly on your child because of incompatibility you will have to buy another car seat that fits her better.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

There is no clip that can be safely added to that seat. Did the seat fit her when you bought it? It is not the store's responsibility to replace the seat if you have owned it for a month and just realized that it didn't fit properly.


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## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

I am a Canadian Tech:

Without getting into the rear facing or forward facing issues, here is something you can do to make the straps fit a little closer to her body: Try taking the thick pads off the shoulder straps. It might help.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I did receive a lot of good advise on this thread, I thank all of you!
I am going to rear face her tomorrow.

I don't know if they have techs here, it is the first time I have heard of it, so probably not.

The guy who installed it insisted that she fits properly. What would you expect him to say? Only after using it for a while did I begin to see the problem.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

On many European seats, the shoulder pads are not optional as they have a grippy backing. Please check the manual to see if they are indeed removable.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

They are removable, they just slide up and down anyway, and get in my way when buckling her. I can remove them.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
They are removable, they just slide up and down anyway, and get in my way when buckling her. I can remove them.

Just because they are able to be removed doesn't mean that they are optional. Usually they are required on seats without chest clips. Please check your manual or call the company before you remove them.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

The manual is not clear about removing the padding. I took the whole thing apart today. The straps were not positioned right, one would tighten and the other would stay lose. After rethreading it now works fine. She is now rear facing, in a more laying position with the straps coming from below her shoulders and wrapping. They still don't touch her body from the shoulders to the clip. The straps coming from the sides to the clip hug her thighs not her waist.
I finally got a response from the manufacturer:
"This is a European car seat. We cannot send parts for this seat. I would recommend checking in a Toys R Us or Babies R Us if you have one of these retailers in your area."

This is absolutely outrageous! The manufacturer sends me to Toys R Us for safety advice?!?!? What do they mean by it being a European car seat, if their brand name is on it, it is their seat! Who made the seat I bought, who is responsable?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Sounds like you've got it working better. Make sure she's not more than 30-45° reclined, as being too reclined will be dangerous for her. More upright is fine because she's older and can sit well on her own. It's okay that the straps don't touch her tummy. They need to touch on the areas of strength - her shoulders and her hips/thighs. Sounds like a much better situation now!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

It is correct for the hip straps to lie on the hips/thighs and not at the waist.

If the straps do not touch her body, they are too loose and need to be tightened.

The carseat manufacturer may indeed not be responsible if you bought a European car seat and you do not live in Europe. They support their seats in the countries that they are designed for. What exactly do you need from them?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
It is correct for the hip straps to lie on the hips/thighs and not at the waist.

If the straps do not touch her body, they are too loose and need to be tightened.

The carseat manufacturer may indeed not be responsible if you bought a European car seat and you do not live in Europe. They support their seats in the countries that they are designed for. What exactly do you need from them?

I think that if she is very thin, that the straps may be correct IF they are in a tight, taught, straight line from her shoulders to her hips. If they are sagging or falling off her shoulders or otherwise loose, then I'd be concerned. But if they are taught and straight, I believe they are fine, just not touching a tummy that is thin. Would you agree with that assessment?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Honestly, that's something I'd need to see a picture of to be sure. I don't recall ever seeing a child with straps that didn't touch the chest or stomach and thinking that it was fine. Some harnesses are looser in the chest and some in the stomach, but they usually touch somewhere along the torso. I tend to believe that the straps need tightening and/or the seat just isn't suited for the child, but I'm open to being convinced (photographically or otherwise) that I'm wrong.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I found this blog that has many pictures of children in European seats just to show how they should look on the body!
http://kidsincars.blogspot.com/2007/...ll-enough.html

The gallery...
http://forum.nybaktmamma.com/showthread.php?t=524428%27

I'm glad it seems to be working now


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Honestly, that's something I'd need to see a picture of to be sure. I don't recall ever seeing a child with straps that didn't touch the chest or stomach and thinking that it was fine. Some harnesses are looser in the chest and some in the stomach, but they usually touch somewhere along the torso. I tend to believe that the straps need tightening and/or the seat just isn't suited for the child, but I'm open to being convinced (photographically or otherwise) that I'm wrong.

This might be where the "pinch" test comes in. If it's slack, it's a problem. If it's a matter of it touching some parts of the body but not the belly (as is seen in some of the pics Eden posted), but is taut (eek! forgive my spelling errors earlier!) and in good contact with the shoulders and pelvis, then it's likely right.

Eden, thanks for posting the pics, for all of us! Hopefully they'll help the OP ensure her DD is in correctly. It's startling as an American to see the lack of harness clip (and one pic with a harness clip used wrong, actually), but clearly they have them tested that way and they work well.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

(Well, I actually think a lot of those harnesses need tightening too, to be honest!)

I agree about the pinch test. If you cannot pinch any strap horizontally, then the straps are fine. If you can pinch a fold of strap, then they need to be tighter. If they can't be tightened further, then your child is too small for the seat.


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
(Well, I actually think a lot of those harnesses need tightening too, to be honest!)

I agree about the pinch test. If you cannot pinch any strap horizontally, then the straps are fine. If you can pinch a fold of strap, then they need to be tighter. If they can't be tightened further, then your child is too small for the seat.

Yep, totally agree.









FWIW, I'm a former CPST, but I haven't practiced in a few years.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Is there anyway to post a picture so you can see? I can get a fist between her and the straps, tightening them only pulls her shoulder uncomfortably downward. The straps are taut in the pinch test. I am worried that she could get out of them.

I want the manufacturer's advice on adding a chest clip and proper positioning. They linked me to the Israeli branch, which I e-mailed.

I really appreciate the advice I got here, it was eyeopening. I am sure she is much safer now. I now know that the guy at the store didn't install the chair properly. I have now been trying to get across to all of my friends that putting a baby in a car is much more than "sit and click".


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

You cannot add a chest clip.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Right, you can't add one, and don't worry about it, since they really don't do much


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

All I want it to do is to hold the straps in place and not allow her to get herself lose by threading an arm through the space between her and the strap.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

My DD is quite slim, and also quite strong and mobile. Despite having her harness tightened VERY well, she can still get her arms out if she really wants to, I just have to keep checking her.

And we don't have a clip, as our seat is European.

Apart from that, DD sits very well in the harness.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

It is not safe to add a chest clip to a seat.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I'd be worried, that even with constant checking I might miss something or not have time to pull over to adjust it and something might happen.

Why is adding a chest clip not safe?

A block from my house, yesterday morning a car ran a stop sign and hit a family in their car. The baby, about 2 year old was in a FF car seat in the back seat. The car had hit the baby's side, his door was smashed in. The baby is fine, the mom and dad were slightly injured by hitting their heads against the side of the car and from glass. It was so scary to see that so close to home, even though the car seat did a great job protecting the baby.


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

It's not safe because it's not designed for or tested with that seat. The European seats are a different design altogether, which is made to give the same safety performance with the ability to release a child in one click. So, they have other ways of ensuring the straps stay in place - generally, wider straps, and perhaps the strap covers, as well.

How scary to have a crash right where you live! I'm so glad everyone is okay. Remember that your DD will be even safer rearfacing, even in side-impact crashes.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I don't understand why not being designed for or tested with the car seat would make it unsafe. I think that having the baby lose or with only one strap would be awful and having a chest clip on would be a lesser evil in event of a crash. If I see her once get out of her straps I will add a chest clip.


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

A) There are likely not any designed to actually fit those straps. The ones here are used with narrower straps.

B) If it's not tested, you have no idea how it will perform, or if it will interfere with performance.

C) The seat IS designed to have the straps stay in place when used properly. Read the manual thoroughly to ensure you are familiar with the proper ways to use it. If a child is getting out of the straps, it is likely not being used properly - as when you discovered the straps weren't even, etc.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

It is not safe to use a chest clip with a seat if the seat did not come with a chest clip. Adding a chest clip will alter the geometry of the straps. That may not be safe.

You are correct that it is not safe for a child to be in a seat in which the straps can't be adequately tightened. If your child doesn't fit in the seat, she needs a different seat. She does not need you to make her current seat unsafe.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I am waiting for the manufacturers reply as to if they have chest clips that fit this car seat, or if alternate chest clips can fit. She is in properly, she is just very thin, and there is a space the size of my fist between the strap and her body. Tightening the straps just pull her shoulders uncomfortably downward. After a bit of googling I also found a company in New Zealand that specializes in making chest clips for European car seats, called Houdini, I have e-mailed them. What could be worse in a crash - to have one or both straps off, or to maybe have them slightly out of position because of an extra chest clip. The car seat is fine, my baby is skinny. Besides that I have heard from other mothers that their kids get out of the straps too.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Yes the carseat is fine and your baby is skinny. Those may both be indusputable facts. However, it may also be a fact that it is just not the right carseat for your child. So "fine" may not equal "the right seat for my baby at this particular weight, height, and overall body proportion". Not every baby fits in every seat and not every seat fits in every car. We totally understand that you may not have an easy time getting a new seat which does fit your baby, but that doesn't change the fact that this seat doesn't sound like a good fit for her or the fact that you cannot add a chest clip.

Here in the US there are many accessories available for sale which are not safe. It doesn't stop companies form making and marketing them. Also, in the US we have something called a "proper use clause". This means that the manufacturer of the seat sets certain safety standards and if the parent goes against them, they are committing an infraction. So here in the States, our seats use chest clips. If I removed a chest clip from my seat, I would be illegally transporting my child. Israel may not have a proper use clause, but that doesn't mean that it safe to add a chest clip that was not crash-tested on the seat.

I thought of something that I don't think anyone has mentioned. Does your seat have an adjustable female crotch buckle? Some American seats have more than one slot for the buckle so that slim kids can get a closer fit. Try that and let us know.

I bet you could upload pics of your little one in the seat to photobucket.com. That would be very helpful.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Is the gap between the strap and child over the tummy? If so, that's fine; a properly tightened harness does not contact the child along the entire length of strap--there is usually some space over the tummy. If she's getting out of the straps, you're right, that's a problem.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

I believe the Houdini Stop clip is actually approved for use in NZ & AU with their seats, but not with European seats.

OP, is it possible for you to take some photos of your child in her seat & upload them to Flickr, Picassa, Photobucket or something similar? It might help us to see how the straps are lying on her.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

I don't think New Zealand make any car seats (i e, there are no NZ car seats), all the seats here are imported, and approved by the authorities. We've got a European seat, friends have an American and most people have Australian, because they are easiest to come across in the shops. But they are all approved.

But just because something is legal here doesn't mean it is safe - Kiwis are very relaxed about a lot of things. The law states that a child under the age of 5 must be in an approved car seat (unless in a taxi or something), but this includes boosters. That's all. Most babies forwards face from around the age of 1 (sometimes 9 months), and Plunket (well baby visits) give out a car safety booklet which tells you specifically to turn your child forward facing around age 1. Most people seem to think both that that is the law and that that is safer.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AislinCarys* 
I don't think New Zealand make any car seats (i e, there are no NZ car seats), all the seats here are imported, and approved by the authorities.

Sorry, that's what I was referring to by saying NZ seats, ones that are approved for use there. Canada doesn't make car seats either...our seats are all made elsewhere (US, China, etc) and approved for use by Transport Canada...those are Canadian seats. Just not actually manufactured in Canada.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Actually, NZ has adopted the overseas standards, so if a car seat is approved in the US, UK or Australia, it is approved in NZ (and what they refer to as UK standard is actually EU-standard, which is what our Swedish seat is approved by).

http://www.childrestraints.co.nz/standards.php


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

How do wider straps work with young babies? The straps on U.S. seats are already as wide as a newborn's shoulder.


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AislinCarys* 
Actually, NZ has adopted the overseas standards, so if a car seat is approved in the US, UK or Australia, it is approved in NZ (and what they refer to as UK standard is actually EU-standard, which is what our Swedish seat is approved by).

http://www.childrestraints.co.nz/standards.php

Okay...makes sense. I guess the Houdini Stop is approved for use in Australia, then and therefore in NZ as well, according to their site.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestion to join photobucket! Here are the uploaded pictures. Most of them taken while she is asleep. Awake, she is out of her straps immediately if not sooner!
http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sondacop/
An English link to the car seat:
http://www.very.co.uk/baby-gold-sx-c...#productReview

Most seats are made standard size. I had her sit in many seats in the store and I didn't see much difference at the time. I don't think they make special seats for skinny kids. I don't think there is a more appropriate seat to buy.

I talked to the local manufacturer Representative. He said to replace the strap padding with one with a sticky backing that would stick to her clothes. I explained why that wouldn't work and asked him about a chest clip. He has yet to be true to his promise to get back to me shortly (2 days ago).

The Houdini rep says it should work.

I don't yet understand the problem: a chest strap changes the straps from a V to a Y. Why is that a problem?

Here too must people think that the law says that the baby must be ff at age 1 or 9 kg. I was actually worried how I would explain to a cop why my baby is still rf after age 1. Thanks to all of you I am a lot more informed!

I don't know if we have a "proper use clause". there is no adjustable female crotch buckle.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

That car seat is not right for your dd.

One thing I can't tell from any of the pictures, are there two places for the crotch strap? Because if that could be moved closer to her body, I think everything would fit better.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Yeah, it really looks like the crotch strap is miles from where it should be. Can that be adjusted at all? A lot of seats (at least in the US) have some way to slide it back and forth. I'd put it as close to her as possible and see if that helps.


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## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

That seat does not look like a good fit for your daughter. When you tried her in the seats in the store, did you fully buckle her in? Is there a way to get the female buckle closer to her body? If I had no other options, I would consider getting the houdini clip, but that would be my personal choice. Hopefully the car seat manufacturer has a clip that is approved for use with this seat.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Judging from the pictures, the receiving end of the crotch buckle is too far from the body to work properly. If it can't be moved, the child won't fit correctly in the seat.

We totally understand not having enough money to buy a new seat. What you choose to do is completely up to you. But please believe the techs here who are saying it's pretty likely that this is the wrong seat for your child.

Oh, and your babe is a cutie!


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## libranbutterfly (Jan 12, 2007)

Also does it do any better with the strap covers on? They are part of the way that EU seats straps stay on the shoulders.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Looking at your photos, I'd say she's not sitting well at all. Now, I did say that my skinny, agile DD can get out of the straps when she wants to, BUT, she sits very nice and tightly in her seat.

As others have said, can you tighten the crotch straps? And I think you do probably need to use strap pads. Maybe try the Houdini Stop? (It isn't likely to get it worse!)

And (totally understanding not being able to afford another seat - we certainly have no money for "extras"!), I would actually say I think she needs a new seat. Could your parents or someone else help, as a birthday present or so?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree that the carseat simply does not fit your daughter.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If you can't adjust the crotch strap, it would be worth taking the seat to the store and raising a polite ruckus about how they sold you a seat that doesn't fit your dd at all.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

It definitely looks like the seat isn't fitting your kiddo and I totally agree about moving the crotch bit back. That should help a lot.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

The crotch strap is not adjustable. The store had lots of other options but none fit better. They all are made to accommodate a wider and heavier toddler. I don't think there is a better option, even if I was planing on buying another 2 seats. I do use the strap pads, I took them off to see if I could get a closer fit and have since replaced them.

I will find out more from the manufacturer and will consider the Houdini. I know you won't like this, but in the mean time I have been using an old chest clip from a "century" seat, just so that she doesn't remove the straps all together. She gets out of them as soon as I put them on. I am sure that a seat with the wrong chest clip is better than not having straps on at all !


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

What seats are available to you in the store? Can you order somewhere online. If so where? I'm sure people on this board can help you find an appropriate seat that is available to you.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Mostly EU standard seats, which I understand pass higher tests than others. This seat is meant for infants and up so that the crotch strap not being adjustable should not be a problem.

I talked to the Safety 1st rep today, he said that the manufacture has approved chest clips to be added to EU seats and that he will bring me one next week and check her fit.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
I talked to the Safety 1st rep today, he said that the manufacture has approved chest clips to be added to EU seats and that he will bring me one next week and check her fit.

Oh thank goodness.

If the seat is intended for infants, maybe they expect you'll be using a bulkier diaper?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
If the seat is intended for infants, maybe they expect you'll be using a bulkier diaper?









HA! No, I expect they'd want me to bulk up the baby! I've been through that on a different tread, I have been advised by the medical community to stop bfing quite often! Formula must be much better than my milk. Others have tried to convince me to give her junk food. Crazy!


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Look, even a thin baby should fit in a seat! DD was quite underweight as a baby, tall and really skinny - frightfully skinny at one point (she didn't fit newborn size cloth nappies well until she was nearly a year old), but she has been in her Brio Zento since she was barely 5 months old.

And that seat is one of the biggest on the market, it should fit a 5 yo (up to 55 lbs), even if it might not fit all 5 yos, due to height!

The seat certainly is roomy, but DD has always been snugg in it. While her head might fall forward or sideways as she sleeps, he body does not move. That said, as I mentioned earlier, yes, if she really wants to she can get an arm out - but she's a bit of an escape artist.

Oh, if you could get a hold of an extended rear-facing seat, I would buy that. (DH's father bought the Brio Zento as a baby gift, as we couldn't afford it, so I understand the problem with buying another seat. But really, I'd rather borrow money to get my child a safe seat). The Brio Zento is the only one imported to NZ, so we've go that. But when we were back in Sweden recently we looked at the Britax Two-way and Akta Graco Duo-flex XTP. They both seemed very good, and DD sat really well in them.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

It can be used as an extended rear facing seat, and after all I have learned from all of you I am planing to keep her rear facing as long as possible. The padding provided for infants has her sitting snugly. The problem is with the straps, from about armpit high downward they are not close to her body. The representative will contact me and will see her in the seat and provide me with chest clips approved by the manufacturer for this seat.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Right, sorry, I couldn't find any info on when to turn forward-facing, and most rear-facing seats produced for UK market are only rear-facing up to 13 kg.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

DD is only 8.5 kg now so by the time she is 13 kg she will probably be in grade school







. Anyway, from what I have been reading, turning them FF is a suggestion, not a regulation, as I had been led to believe.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

The rep came today and brought me a chest clip, and installed it for me. I told him that is was supposed to be at armpit level, but he didn't think it was significant. I will download a picture for you to see if I got it right. She tried unsuccessfully to get out of it, so I feel better already!


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## ~Amy~ (Jun 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
The rep came today and brought me a chest clip, and installed it for me. I told him that is was supposed to be at armpit level, but he didn't think it was significant. I will download a picture for you to see if I got it right. She tried unsuccessfully to get out of it, so I feel better already!

Yes, it should be around armpit level. It's important for the clip to be on bone (ie her sternum) rather than on soft tissue.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
The rep came today and brought me a chest clip, and installed it for me. I told him that is was supposed to be at armpit level, but he didn't think it was significant. I will download a picture for you to see if I got it right. She tried unsuccessfully to get out of it, so I feel better already!

Did he give you any other advice about how to get her to fit better? I'm just curious, I've never really heard of a car seat rep before!

Did you post a photo?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

He seemed more like a salesman....

Here is the photo I posted:
http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sondacop/

Did I get it right?

It kinda bunches up the padding, but that doesn't bother her. She can't get out, it is easy to remove and (he says) it is approved, so I am happy.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

lol, she looks po'd that she can't get out!

The straps look a little high, can they be lowered? The slots should be at or a little below the shoulders when rear facing.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

She is PO!

There is a lower slot. The slot I am using now is below her shoulders. Since the padding bunches up it doesn't seem that way in the photo. How far below the shoulders should the slot be?


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

How much shell is above her head? You said she was tall and you weren't kidding! It might just be the angle of the pictures but she looks nearly grown out of that seat by height!

She is really really cute BTW...love the curls!


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Quote:

She is really really cute BTW...love the curls!
I agree, but then, I am biased!

She is tall but since she is so thin I still have her on the infant padding, as soon as she gets bigger I will remove it and then she will have more head room.
She really is a beanstalk! Her shirt size is 18-24 in hight and her pants size is 6 months! Try to fit a baby like that in a car seat, its enough to make you want to walk!


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Just make sure she still has the 1 inch of shell over the top of her head...from the pictures, I would say it might be time to remove it now just to be safe. I;m really glad you found a solution!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Euro seats allow the child to RF until the tops of the ears are even with the top of the shell


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Euro seats allow the child to RF until the tops of the ears are even with the top of the shell









How safe is this? And how comfortable?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Good question, why would there be different standards for hight?


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## WindyCityMom (Aug 17, 2009)

Here's what I know (or think I know, so take it with a grain of salt). The 1" rule is because in a frontal end crash children tend to ride up the shell. The more shell above their head, the less of a chance they have of hitting their head on the headrest from the seat that's in front of (err..behind) the car seat. (Example- say you have the seat installed in the back seat in back of the drivers seat- the child would hit their head on the driver's seat's head rest.) I think this is also why the straps need to be at or below the shoulders- to prevent the child from riding up in a frontal impact.

The European rule totally confuses me.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Most European seats also allow the recline to be as little as 20* - it's hard to ramp up when you are sitting up right.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Okay, I have removed the padding under her. What do you mean by "ramp up"?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I showed the car seat with DD in it to a tech today. She was not happy with mixing standards, but could not explain exactly what could be wrong with adding a chest clip to a European seat. She said that Safety First Europe is not Safety First USA, I am not sure now what I have. She also answered the question about the European standard on hight. When the chair is FF the child can be almost ear level, like an adult against a head rest. When it is RF the standard is 2.5 inches under the hight of the car seat, just like the American standard. So, she pointed out, since I am planing to RF for as long as possible, since DD is so tall she will soon out grow this chair anyway.


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
When it is RF the standard is 2.5 inches under the hight of the car seat, just like the American standard. So, she pointed out, since I am planing to RF for as long as possible, since DD is so tall she will soon out grow this chair anyway.

Just to clarify here... the standard here (I'm in Canada, but it's the same for the US) is 2.5cm, not 2.5 inches (2.5cm=1 inch) from the top of the shell of the carseat for rearfacing which would give considerably more growing room than 2.5 inches


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Correct, I meant cm, not inches.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
I showed the car seat with DD in it to a tech today. She was not happy with mixing standards, but could not explain exactly what could be wrong with adding a chest clip to a European seat. She said that Safety First Europe is not Safety First USA, I am not sure now what I have. She also answered the question about the European standard on hight. When the chair is FF the child can be almost ear level, like an adult against a head rest. When it is RF the standard is 2.5 inches under the hight of the car seat, just like the American standard. So, she pointed out, since I am planing to RF for as long as possible, since DD is so tall she will soon out grow this chair anyway.

That is a European seat, not an American seat. I am still very uncomfortable with the chest clip, and wonder if you spoke with a sales rep (who is not trained in safety) rather than an engineer or child passenger safety technician.

What is wrong with it is that the seat has not been tested with it. There may be nothing wrong with it. There may be a lot wrong with it. We don't know. I hope that your daughter doesn't have to be the one to find out.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
That is a European seat, not an American seat. I am still very uncomfortable with the chest clip, and wonder if you spoke with a sales rep (who is not trained in safety) rather than an engineer or child passenger safety technician.

What is wrong with it is that the seat has not been tested with it. There may be nothing wrong with it. There may be a lot wrong with it. We don't know. I hope that your daughter doesn't have to be the one to find out.

Well then, maybe I should order the Houdini since it has been tested.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Does anyone know who I can contact, the people who do the testing on the European car seats, maybe they can answer.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sondacop* 
Well then, maybe I should order the Houdini since it has been tested.

The Houdini is an aftermarket product and probably has not been tested WITH YOUR SEAT. The Safety1st clips have been tested with American seats, not European ones.

European seats are not designed or tested with chest clips. If you want a seat with a chest clip, you may have to import an American seat. I do not know if that is legal in your country.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

They sell American seats here, although the word on the street is that they are not as safe as the European ones, because the European ones are tested at a higher crash speed. I don't know how true this statement is, so don't hold me to it, please.

A Safety First sales rep sold me a Safety First chest clip for a Safety First European car seat. Should I be worried? Obviously, if I felt this was fine I wouldn't be here.

I E-mailed Ncap.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I would be worried unless the rep can tell you for sure that THAT CLIP was tested with THAT SEAT.

I do not believe American testing standards are less rigid than European; however, a seat that fits your child properly (without add-ons) is automatically safer than a seat that does not fit


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Hello all! I am back since my beanstalk baby has turned into a beanstalk little girl. She is now almost 4yo (time does fly) and her ears are getting close to the top of the shell of the seat. (She is forward facing). I don't know if to transfer her to a booster, since she is so tall, but she is not near the weight it says on the booster (15 kg, for the booster, I'll check her exact weight in the morning).

So what is more important weight or height?

Thanks, I really appreciated your knowledgeable replies when she was a baby, and I knew I just had to come back here again now that she is almost 4.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I checked today, she is 13.7 kg, not the 15 required for the booster.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

Where are her shoulders in relationship to the highest harness setting on the car seat?

Are you still using the same car seat you were using before? I'm sorry I am not familiar with the seat so I don't know whether it converts to a booster or not.

In the US, Safety 1st sells several car seats that are supposed to be for rear facing, forward facing, and booster mode. However, they all make very poor boosters, and do not position the seat belt properly over the child. I looked at the pictures you posted a couple of years ago when she was rear-facing and it doesn't look like any of the 3-in-1 seats we have here, but I thought it would help to know for sure.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I'll check her shoulders in the morning, what should I be looking for?

It is the same seat she was using in the pictures, I'll try to take new ones. It is not a 3 in 1 only a rear-front facing seat. The booster I have is separate, but it says 15 kg on it and she is 13.7.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

Do you still have the manual for the seat? It would help to double-check anything I might advise, because different seats can vary slightly in their rules - especially seats made for various markets around the world.

In general, however, a car seat is usually outgrown by height when the child's shoulders reach the top harness position in the car seat. For forward facing, the straps typically need to be at or above the child's shoulders. Even if the child is over the stated height limit for the seat, if she is mostly tall in her legs and not so much in the torso she may still fit fine. Height estimates are not as set-in-stone as weight, because different kids are just built differently, and you might have two kids who are the same standing height but one is too tall for the car seat harness and the other has plenty of growing room.

The other measure we use to see whether a seat is outgrown by height is whether the tops of the child's ears are at or above the top of the car seat's back. When the child's head is too far above the top of the car seat, there is an increased risk for whiplash because the head is no longer supported.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I have uploaded the new pictures I took today to the Photobucket here:

http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sondacop/

It does seem like she has out grown her seat from the guidelines you have posted. What do you think?


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

It's hard to tell from photos because angles are hard to judge. But from the pictures she looks to me like she's right at the limit and has no growing room left. As near as I can tell, she's probably safe in the seat until she grows again (which of course could be any time). It's definitely time to get her something new.

What are your options for getting her a new car seat? I know harnessed seats for bigger kids aren't common outside of North America. I'm not very happy with the idea of an "almost 4" year old child in a booster, though, but I realize I'm looking at it from a US standpoint; we have lots of car seats here that would safely accommodate her in a harness even though she is tall. I have no idea what would be available to you locally, or what your options might be for importing a seat from the US.

If you do need to move her into a booster, do you have high-back boosters available where you are? That would be a much better option than the backless booster in your photo album. High back boosters may also have lower weight restrictions on them. They often do here.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

She will be 4 in 2 months.

What is wrong with the booster I have? It is a standard model.

.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

It's not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just that my experience tells me children her age don't do very well in backless boosters, especially for long trips. What happens when she falls asleep in the car? Will she be able to sit up straight and keep the seat belt positioned over her chest properly at all times?

It is better than nothing, but if you have the option of getting her a booster that has back support to help her stay in the right position for the seat belt, it would be better.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, that and she doesn't meet the minimum weight requirements. Neither seat that you currently have is really appropriate for her. What are some of the choices available where you are?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I don't know of other choices I have, I will have to shop around. We rarely take long trips by car, and most of the long trips she doesn't fall asleep. I am uploading pictures of her in the booster.

I don't think she will meet the minimum weight for a long time, how important is that?

If I take out the car-seat I could put the booster in the middle seat, would that would be better than one of the sides?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

If she doesn't meet the minimum weight requirement, it is not safe at all for her to use the seat (and as already stated, a 3yo should not be in a backless booster anyhow).


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I am viewing this site: http://www.motsesim.co.il/store/categories.asp?prodCatID=639 to see the types of boosters just press the green words on the bottom left of each category of boosters.

I can keep her in her car-seat for 2 months if age is a problem.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

This is the only one that said it is for 9-36 kg: http://www.motsesim.co.il/store/product.asp?id=244&lang=hebrew


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sondacop*
> 
> This is the only one that said it is for 9-36 kg: http://www.motsesim.co.il/store/product.asp?id=244&lang=hebrew


It won't load a car seat for me, and I can't find it on the site because I can't read Hebrew.

But I found this:

http://www.israelmall.co.il/english_11264090778/baby-child/car-seats/easybaby-rafaelo-booster-car-seat.html

It says 9-36 kg also. Is it the same seat you're looking at? I'd rather see her in an appropriately sized harness at her age, but if that's not available this would be preferable. It is rated for her weight range, and has a high back on it.

Is importing a car seat an option? Do you have any laws governing car seat use or government approval of car seats in Israel?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I see you couldn't see the one I was trying to show you so I added it to the photobucket http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sondacop/ .

I just want to take care of this ASAP and this place is in my hometown and I can just go and pick it up. Ordering a car-seat would take too long.

What do you think of this one?


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brigala*
> 
> Is importing a car seat an option? Do you have any laws governing car seat use or government approval of car seats in Israel?


Importing a seat would take too long, be expensive and not as easy as just stopping at a store. Yes there are law governing car seat use (age appropriate) and approval of car-seats.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

I understand. Importing a seat is not always practical, but in some places it can actually be cheaper than getting one locally, and not all countries have laws against using foreign car seats.

The one you linked to looks promising. How much does it cost compared to the one I linked? The one you put in your Photobucket has a harness, which is great if the harness will fit your child. Since it's a local store, you can try her out in it before you buy. If she's already too tall for that seat's harness, though, you may be paying a lot of extra money for a feature you're not going to use. I would suggest you have her sit in it and see how she fits. Ask if they'll let you try it in your car, and test it out in "booster mode" also. Keeping in mind that she will grow and the fit will change, you can at least get an idea of how it places the belt over her. The lap belt should be low across the lap, not over the tummy. The shoulder belt should cross right between her neck and her shoulder, and should lay flat against her chest with no gaps. There are some pictures here that might help you out, too: http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/boosters/default.html


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

All car-seats here are imported, none made locally. Yes, I will try it out with her in the car-seat in the store, the main advantage of going to one rather than buying on-line. The booster I have now, that Ii will use when she is older and heavier, already fits as compared to the pictures in the link you posted. As for the price compared to the one you linked - I will see tomorrow!


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I went today and first bought the "Keeper- BabySafe". While I was installing it in the car - pieces came apart! Appalled I returned it immediately and went to a different place. I uploaded to the http://s837.photobucket.com/albums/zz298/sondacop/ photobucket pictures of the new seat. The saleswoman said it is made in France and, even though I don't understand French, I think it is this one: http://www.nania.com/produit.php?id_produit=276# I might be wrong. It has the shoulder straps, adjustable head rest, adjustable armrest and it beeps when it is unclicked. When she is bigger the cars straps can be used instead of the shoulder straps. The seat doesn't detach but I have a seat only if she needs it when she is bigger. The sales woman said that since my car has side airbags it is best not to use the seat without the back anyway.

I hope I made the right choice! There weren't many choices for a girl like DD tall and thin.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow, I can't believe the seat fell apart on you like that!

I read an article recently about counterfeit car seats being sold in Europe. Scary stuff.

http://www.goodeggcarsafety.com/ukincar/incar/news

The Nania seat looks nice. The important thing is that it fits your child. I'm glad you found a seat that will work for you.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Yes, first a screw cover fell off, I didn't find where it came from, but I wasn't concerned about it. Then a red loop hole I was supposed to position the car belt through disconnected from the screw fastening it to the car-seat. I immediately took it back to them and asked to cancel my credit card payment and left.

The link you posted is scary!!!! How am I supposed to know if what I bought is genuine? What should I look for that any plastic manufacturer can't fabricate? The sales woman said it was French, but it says Sigma on it, the booklet that came with it says Nania, the booklet has lots of languages in it and the English was okay, but should that really be the sign that the seat is genuine? I did buy it in a respectable store.

The crash test shown in that video has me feeling that the straps should be the original car seat belts and not the car-seat straps. I also feel that the sideways range of motion is a lot bigger than in the previous car-seat. Should I be concerned about this, is there anyway to fasten the seat like the other one (it had an additional loop on the top back, this one goes to the sides and around and downwards.


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## brigala (Apr 26, 2010)

I don't know how you tell the difference, unfortunately.







That article is all the information I have on it. It might not hurt to call the manufacturer and ask them if there's any way to tell. The article did mention a few things to look for, such as stickers and making sure the seat came with instructions in English. I guess that's a EU regulation, so if there are no English instructions included it's probably not a real European seat.

For now, since your little one is so young, if the harness fits I'd recommend using it. The reason the seat in the video fell apart was because it wasn't genuine. As for how to install it using the harness or the car's seat belt, I'm only really familiar with car seat models that are sold in the US so I'd have to say just read the manual very carefully.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

The booklet had instructions in multiple languages including English. I re-read the instructions and saw that the man that set it up had one of the car belts in the wrong place. After I adjusted it the seat didn't move to the sides as much. I think I now have it right.


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

Nania seems to be a common brand of car seat here in the UK, I've read a few reviews saying that after a while the buckles become very stiff to click into place so that might be something you need to watch out for.

Quote:


> Should I be concerned about this, is there anyway to fasten the seat like the other one (it had an additional loop on the top back, this one goes to the sides and around and downwards.


Tethering car seats doesn't seem to be common over here. I'm not sure about Isofix seats as I've not used one but I've never some across a seat fitted using the cars seat belt that also has a tether.

Quote:


> I read an article recently about counterfeit car seats being sold in Europe. Scary stuff.
> 
> http://www.goodeggcarsafety.com/ukincar/incar/news


I've seen odd bits in the news about counterfeit car seats, all of which seems to have related to infant seats sold with travel systems. I haven;t heard anything about seats for older children like the one in the link above. Scary.

The one going round at the moment seems to be fake bugaboo pushchairs, sold online under the name Mi wheels, which come with a "car seat" as part of the package.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for your reassurance, I already find the buckles irritating me, it takes so long to line them up and they don't always click right away. Also opening them can take a few tries. I don't know about the tether, I don't see where it could be fastened to the seat even if I found where to place it on my Toyota.

Counterfeit seats ARE scary!


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

No disrespect OP (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong!) but in the pics of your DD in the LBBPB with the 3pt seat belt, I think the lap belt may not be threaded through the seat correctly.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

No offence taken, I am here to learn. What do you think I did wrong? I followed the instructions in the booklet after the person who installed it left it too lose.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

We would need to see the manual for the seat to know for sure. In most US boosters, the shoulder belt should be routed under the armrest on the buckle side.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

It is around the armrest on the buckle side. http://s837.beta.photobucket.com/user/sondacop/media/02112012210.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1#/user/sondacop/media/02112012210.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1&_suid=135531468122809376037449631402


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Right, I see that. Is it supposed to be? Check the manual. Most boosters I am familiar with require the shoulderbelt to be *under* the armrest on the buckle side.


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## sondacop (May 15, 2009)

I uploaded the manual here : http://s837.beta.photobucket.com/user/sondacop/media/manu.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0#/user/sondacop/media/manu.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0&_suid=135541876450709588247904877067

I think I have it right.


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