# ‘I don’t like Grandma!--update post 16



## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

Hmm....this is a tough one. Dd1(age 5) has always been very close to my mom. She took care of her for a week when she was 2 and dp had a family emergency (days only, I was WOH FT). They love playing together and doing special activities together...or did until recently!
Grandma visited at Christmas and that seemed to go well. We went to visit her at Easter and dd seemed to be mad at her the whole time, and afterwards said that she was mad at her for tickling her and she didn't want her to do that anymore. Grandma came down in May for a visit with Aunt, where they took care of our two girls while we went away for our first night away-all went well, but Dd1 expressed a marked preference for Auntie during this visit and didn't spend much time with Grandma-which was fine because Grandma could then spend more time taking care of her 2 yo sister.
As we were driving Gma & Auntie to the bus station, Dd1 said 'I wish I could live next to Auntie!' I said, yeah I wish we could live closer to all our family & grandparents. She then clarified 'No, I don't want to live near Grandma, only Auntie!' My mom took it well, assuming it was just jealousy from playing so much with her little sister. (I did later explain to dd1 that saying something like that could hurt Grandma's feelings).
But again recently I mentioned the possibility of going on a trip with Grandma in the fall, and dd said to me 'No! I don't like Grandma!'
I can't figure out what's going on, but this is starting to worry me & I'm a bit worried about their relationship, as it is now going on 3 months that she has been feeling that way.
Some thoughts:
-My mom's anxiety-my mom is a fairly anxious person. At Christmas, I articulated to her some of the concerns we had been having about dd1 (it seems likely that she has SPD, and emotional regulation issues). I am concerned that Grandma is now worried about her and not just enjoying her and that is translating itself to dd, who is pretty sensitive.

-Divorced parents-my parents divorced when I was 4. I am also very close to my dad & stepmom, and we spend a lot of time with them. Dd ADORES them...of course she used to be more afraid of them and adored my mom...so maybe this is just a case of the pendulum swinging back? On our last visit to my hometown, we had a lovely visit with my dad & then went to my mom's...I wonder if dd is resentful that we had to cut short time with grandpa to also see grandma, which I admit does make for stressful & rushed visits.

-I have a fairly close relationship with my mom that if anything, has gotten closer since becoming a mom & as she has made a huge effort to have a better relationship with my partner. So I don't think there is any underlying tension there that she is picking up on...

In any case, after reading this novel, does anyone have any ideas? Dd won't tell me what it is that makes her mad, but that is not unusual for her, she typically has a very hard time articulating what is bothering her. I KNOW my mom would never do anything to hurt her feelings on purpose & would try to fix whatever it is if she knew.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I hesitate to even mention this, but a sudden change in this attitude towards gma and mention of "tickling"....could something inappropriate have occurred? I only have a 2 yo, so I don't have any BTDT words of wisdom.

Hope it resolves itself quickly.


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## Forthwith (Aug 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I hesitate to even mention this, but a sudden change in this attitude towards gma and mention of "tickling"....could something inappropriate have occurred?

My mother used to tickle me when I was angry. There was nothing inappropriate about it (at least not in the way you mean), but it certainly made me mad at her. It still annoys me, 20 years later.

Maybe the OP's mother tickled her daughter in order to force her into a 'better' mood?


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

My uncle dropped a chameleon on my dress when I was somewhere between 3-5 and I was afraid of him for at least 10 years. So crazy, but that was my childish mind. I thought he was MEAN for that. (And honestly, it was kind of dumb of him to do, I hated lizards and he thought it was funny. Now he is a very nice, kind man--I really don't know what he was thinking.)

Can you talk to your DD about why she is feeling this way? If something happened, help her make sense of it.

My DD does not like her Great-Grandma, who is lovely, but 92 and cannot see or hear too much...so, to a 5 year old, a day with G-Grandma can be kind of drag. I get that, but have made the impression that she must be polite and that Great-Grandma LOVES her, and that she gets a lot of joy out of being with us. So please be nice on those days.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

There is a reason for her disliking G-ma, even if you don't know what it is, and even if it only makes "sense" to your dd.

The best thing you can do is respect your dd.

The worst thing you can do is ignore what she is feeling.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

My 4.5 year old often says she dislikes something when she really means she likes something else more. For example she camped out in the dinning room in her tent and she absolutely 'hated' her bed for a couple of days ...... or at least she said she did.


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

I hate hate hate hate HATE being tickled. HATE it. Always have. My mom had a friend when I was little who liked to play "tickle monster". It was absolutely nothing inappropriate in the way the PP implied... I just hated it. And I disliked that friend because of it.


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## dahlialia (Mar 22, 2009)

If it is the tickling, I have a suggestion. My dd1 started not wanting to see grandma because she was being too affectionate and asking for too much affection. We encouraged dd1 to voice this to grandma "gma, you ask for too many hugs". After they had cleared the air and dd realized she had a voice, they were great together again.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

When your mom watched them did she have to discipline your dd for anything? My youngest did not like my mom for a few years because mom would try to discipline her for things(that were most likely not necessary). My dd also has mild SPD, has lactose issues & my mom could not understand either one.


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## mamatowill (Aug 23, 2004)

We went through the same thing with my older DS at the same age. He did not want to be with my mother who was looking after him and such. He could not articulate why but he really hated going to her house. He does have anxiety also as does my mother. I wish I had great words of wisdom but in our case it seems that time (and more than three months, more than six even) was what really worked. He goes now to her house and enjoys it alot more. He also was not able to articulate why he did not like her.


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## K1329 (Apr 6, 2009)

It may be that no one event happened. You mention that your mom is an anxious person. It could be that Auntie is just, plain, more fun. My kids have a definite preference for one grandmother over the other - one is relaxed, has few "rules", and plays games non-stop. The other is more concerned with spills, neatness, behavior, etc.. although in a kind way. My kids often don't want to go to the more "uptight" gma's house. I tell them that she's family and loves them dearly (which is certainly true!) and that we don't want to hurt her feelings - that family is important. Do you think it could simply be a personality issue?


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I don't like my grandma and I *never* have. If g-ma is anxious maybe it's bugging your DD. My grandma always made it very clear she cared more about her little mean dogs than me, in fact she still does







. My mom still tries to push me to like her, and I never will. FWIW-her sister my great aunt is way more cool, and always has been.

I also have to say I adored my grandpa on my dad's side, BUT I hated that he would tease me all the time, and he would never get that it annoyed me







.

Maybe it was the tickling episode, maybe she does like your dad and stepmom more. My DD is around my dad and stepmom all the time and my mom rarely sees her, so of course she is closer to them. I'd attempt to find out the reason, but maybe there isn't one and possibly she's just realizing that she's not that fond of g-ma.


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

I think it's possible that Grandma did something she didn't like (tickling) and perhaps she told Grandma she didn't like it but Grandma didn't listen and kept doing it. I remember things like that happening when I was a kid!

For example, my mom used to pinch the knuckle on my pinkie finger as a sign of "affection". It hurt and I HATED IT WITH A PASSION. No matter how many times I told her, she always "forgot" and tried to do it again. I have seen her do it to my oldest daughter and I have told her many times to stop. My DD says she doesn't mind but it bothers me. I also remember when I was growing up my grandma thought I should hug people she knew whether I knew them or wanted any kind of bodily contact with them at all. If I refused she would try to guilt me into it. Again, I hated it and it caused very negative feelings towards hugging people in general.

I wouldn't force the issue. Maybe you could plan some fun things to do with Grandma while you are present, perhaps a park or zoo day. Then watch how they interact (if they manage to at all). If you see anything happening like Grandma dismissing something that your DD doesn't like or doesn't want her doing, then you can gently back your DD up with something like, "Grandma, I know you may not find this to be a big deal, but DD has told you she doesn't like that, so please don't do it."


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## Moonchild77 (Apr 15, 2008)

http://attachmentparenting.org/blog/...tickle-me-not/

TIcking is something I HATE.
EVen when I am being tickled, I will laugh, but I DO NOT LIKE IT.

My dad did it a lot.
He also - funny-way-spanked-my teddybear....
I laughed, but out of stress.
I am a stresslaugher.

Your kid seems to be honest about her feelings.
Tell your mother not to tickle her again and make sure your LO knows.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

Hi everyone,
OP here--thanks for all the input....some good insights I haven't considered & good perspective for me not to be too concerned.

On the tickling--she actually told her on the phone after the Easter visit: 'I didn't like it when you tickled me' . My mom heard her & hasn't done it since. It's true that dd is one of those kids who genuinely dislikes tickling. I never tickle her. But since she articulated that and it stopped, I'm kind of doubting that's it...
But Kelmendi--you are right on, I think she did tickle her to stop her being mad.

madskye--we have a 92 yo great grandma with Alzheimer's who is very similar...and dd feels similarly about visiting her. In fact every time we visit grandma we also visit great grandma & I think dd associates the two.

mamatowill--I'm hoping that time will be all that's needed.
I should clarify that all our grandparents live about 7-8 hours away and so we don't see them all that often, usually once every couple of months. So I'm sure some space and some special time will help.

And it's helpful for me to remember that it may just be a relative thing. But at the same time I want to make sure she is not rude too....

thanks all!

The personality & anxiety stuff though, I think could be related...I think that my mom is spending so much time when she's with her worrying about her & even evaluating her that it is clouding their time together. Last time after she visited she called to tell me what she thinks is up with dd and what we should do differently. Now, to be fair, I did talk to her about being concerned but I am worried her concern is now clouding all her interaction with dd.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

A month later and this is still an issue. DD is still really angry at my mom & still unable to articulate why. I had dropped it for about a month to see if it improved (and we were visiting other family & travelling during this time).

But now I'm in a more sticky situation as I want to call & skype with my mom & dd refuses to have anything to do with her...says if I give her the phone she will say 'I hate you!'
She has also said she will only feel better when she's 9 (she's currently 5). I explained that I understand that she is mad but that Gma loves her very much (which is true, she is a devoted grandma to both girls). and that she is my mom so I will be wanting to see her soon.

Dp is going away to visit family this weekend & normally I would think about inviting my mom up for a visit & to help with the girls--she is always happy to help & tries to make time for us. But I feel very constrained by the way dd is feeling. I mentioned that I would want grandma to visit sometime soon, as we haven't seen her in 2 months, and dd said, "well, I hate her! I want to lock her out of the house & leave her out in the rain to sit & get cold!"
I didn't react too much to this, not wanting to make a big deal

I'm really at a loss here. I want to support & validate dd, and she is clearly genuinely upset. But at the same time the rest of us would really like to maintain a good relationship with my mom, you know?

She has said--she is not jealous of her sister, not mad about the tickling. The only thing I can think of is that she is mad about the way my mom disciplined her while we were away, as my mom has until recently avoided disciplining her at all.

HELP! Do you think I should invite Grandma to come anyway? If so how do I deal with dd???? Or if not how do I help address this situation?


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Unless you have suspicion of abuse I would invite your mother and let dd that there would be consequences for being rude to guests and family. I don't agree that a 5 year old should run the house. You've been sensitive, tried to figure out what's wrong, your mother has been receptive and sensitive and now this it is time to move this to the "get over it" response.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

thanks PoppyMama, that's kind of what I'm leaning towards....any other input?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Maybe your mom could visit... but not stay overnight at your house? I would feel really betrayed if someone I didn't like was roaming around outside my bedroom at night.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

I did think about that, philomom. The problem is that she lives a very long way away & we don't have any other family in town, so it would be question of her staying at a hotel. In addition she doesn't drive & we live out in the 'burbs so it would be a significant inconvenience--and we have a private guest bedroom & bathroom in the basement mainly for visiting grandparents.
I hear you on the sense of betrayal thing. I find it so hard to balance between my 5 yo's legitimate feelings (but no explanation given...) and the wants/needs of the rest of the family on this one.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama* 
Unless you have suspicion of abuse I would invite your mother and let dd that there would be consequences for being rude to guests and family. I don't agree that a 5 year old should run the house. You've been sensitive, tried to figure out what's wrong, your mother has been receptive and sensitive and now this it is time to move this to the "get over it" response.

ITA

While still working on helping her to her verbalize what it is she "hates" about her gma.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Ugh.

How about finding some picture books you can read together about families and grandparents? Using them to open the conversation a new way?

How about asking her to sit down with you and "write" a letter to grandma and explain what is going on?

Or drawing a picture?

Lastly, yes--just explaining that family is important, that this is YOUR mother and YOU love her very much, and that it hurts you when she hurts grandma's feelings.

Can you think of any funny stories from when you were the little girl and your mom was "the mommy"?

I feel your pain, we are probably seeing great-grandma on Saturday and I am already bracing myself for some attitude on DD's part.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Maybe your mom could visit... but not stay overnight at your house? I would feel really betrayed if someone I didn't like was roaming around outside my bedroom at night.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

I probably would avoid inviting her. It sounds like your mom visits a lot. I live 10 hours from my family and can't imagine one of us driving every 2 months to visit. Perhaps your daughter is wanting just time with you household family rather than feeling as if someone is always visiting.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

VisionaryMom--we actually make a big effort to see extended family every 2-3 months, and we have since dd1 was born. They almost always come to see us (grandma, grandpa, auntie and other grandma). Usually the kids LOVE seeing them, so I doubt that it's about burnout.

Madskye--I like your suggestions a lot, I was trying to think of more creative ways of getting her to talk about how she's feeling. The other problem is that I obviously have feelings about this & my own vested interest & I know she is picking up on that. I'm hoping dp will have more luck talking to her.

I have told her a lot of funny stories about when I was a kid, but I could try more of this too.

In any case, I'm not sure my mom will be able to come at such short notice. But it's bothering me that dd really really doesn't want her to come....

In the past she's gone through phases of 'hating' other kids for a period of months. She does get over it. Usually it's because one of them has been in her space when she didn't want them there or used her stuff without asking. But it's always been peers and we've always managed it by validating up to a point and then asking her to move on and be polite.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmamanow* 
The only thing I can think of is that she is mad about the way my mom disciplined her while we were away, as my mom has until recently avoided disciplining her at all.

Do you know exactly what happened, the details of how your mom disciplined your DD? The intensity of your DDs reaction seems to point to something happening to cause her anger. My 4.5 year old would react to being corrected sternly or loudly, so I'm not suggesting abuse just maybe your DD felt offended or maybe her personal space was violated in some way.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

ssh...that could be. My sister was also there and said she can't recall anything that would have triggered such a reaction, but at the same time she wasn't there all the time (she had a shower, called a friend etc.). But MIL, her other grandma, has disciplined her harshly in the past (we have spoken to her) and she has not reacted this way at all....maybe she just has higher expectations of my mom?


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

It could have been something small enough that your mom wouldn't think of it, but still could have broken your DDs trust in your mom. Kids can be really sensitive at that age. I tend to be really protective of my DD and her right to be treated what I consider to be respectfully, so I'd probably try to figure out a way to see your mom while respecting your DDs hurt/anger/mistrust (whatever it really is, since she won't tell you). Is it possible for your mom to visit while allowing your DD not to talk or interact with her other than a polite hello/goodbye and no alone time with grandma at all? If not I'd probably go with respecting my DDs feelings. Small children are more vulnerable than adults.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

if she tends to have this same grudge holding behavior with friends then I might just say she's being tempermental and I don't think that behavior should be indulged in anyone. Its not a desirable character trait. I'm not saying she should be pushed to sit on grandma lap but I just don't find the behavior acceptable or desirable and I wouldn't want to encourage it in my children. I think most people have little traits that need to be redirected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

You've been very sensitive and understanding, and that's good, but at this point I'd be telling DD that unless there's a good reason, grandma will continue to visit -- it can't just be this vague "I don't like her" stuff.

My mom lives about the same distance as yours (8 hours) and visits with about the same frequency, and I have a 5yo DS, so I'm putting myself in your shoes pretty easily, and I can picture myself saying to DS, "Honey, if something happened that you want to share with me, I'm happy to listen and see if we can come up with some ideas [give time for him to say something if he wants to], but grandma is my mom and I like spending time with her and she loves spending time with our family. If you can't be polite to her during her visit, there will be consequences. We don't go around telling people we hate them and want them to sit outside in the rain unless we have a darn good reason."


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

It's possible that once your daughter sees her grandmother and has new experiences with her she won't be mad too.

It's a tough situation. I think as long as I were sure nothing abusive went on (and I think stopping the tickling is a marvellous sign) I would tell my daughter that it is okay to be mad at people, but with family it doesn't mean we don't continue to get together. This has certainly been true in my life and I'd assume my son would be resilient enough to get that. It also gives the child the idea that even if an adult gets mad at them, they won't disappear.

In a way I think letting your child's anger control the situation could make them fearful (in the future) of expressing anger. I think a pretty common fear of children is if they're mad at someone, that someone will go away and never come back.

I'd tell her that she could come to me with anything that was upsetting her and that it's her /and/ grandma's job to work together on it (so as not to make it seem like it's her fault for being angry). But I would say that grandma is also welcome in our home.

I'd definitely avoid situations where grandma is disciplining for now though, and just keep things relaxed and low-key, and as short a visit as everyone can manage reasonably.


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## buttercup784ever (Aug 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama* 
if she tends to have this same grudge holding behavior with friends then I might just say she's being tempermental and I don't think that behavior should be indulged in anyone. Its not a desirable character trait. I'm not saying she should be pushed to sit on grandma lap but I just don't find the behavior acceptable or desirable and I wouldn't want to encourage it in my children. I think most people have little traits that need to be redirected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

I have a BIL who is like this as an adult. For absolutely no reason, he can't stand certain people. I'm lucky enough to be one of those people.








We have never lived closer than an hour away from my husband's family, and we didn't see them very often. I've tried talking to him about it. He refuses. He actually gets up and leaves the room when I enter. He makes comments under his breath if I say something in conversation. I stopped going to my in-laws because of his behavior, and my MIL and FIL both called and told me to just ignore him because he's like that with quite a few people, and I shouldn't take it personally.

So to OP, I wouldn't allow DD to talk to me about the people she hates. If she can't articulate 'why' she feels that way, and this happens with more than one person over time, I wouldn't allow her to bad talk her grma or anyone else to me. If she has a specific complaint, that would be different. I'd buy her a journal. She could draw in it or write her feelings, but I would stop inadvertantly supporting her in 'hating' people for no reason.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I have a terrible mother and a terrible mother in law, so my personal experiences are vastly different.

I think that if you have a really good relationship with your mother and your husband likes her and you have another daughter to consider it is pretty inappropriate to let a 5 year old dictate that your mother shouldn't be allowed in your house anymore. That's over the top to me. I think that in that situation I would tell my daughter that she can spend extra time in her room not interacting with grandma and that's fine. But she doesn't get to evict your mother from your life. That's too much power for a child. I'm definitely in the camp that thinks that whereas children should be respected too, they don't get to rule the roost. They are not yet capable of fully thinking through all of the consequences of their actions and they are not yet capable of being compassionate about how their behavior will impact other people potentially on a permanent basis.

If you have a good mother, don't give that up. Good mothers are not a dime a dozen and you should cherish yours and spend as much time with her as you can.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

thanks for all your thoughtful, helpful input everyone.
I do think we should be teaching her that you can be mad at someone and still love them and that this definitely applies to family. Still not sure if grandma is going to be joining us this weekend but I will update you.
I did call grandma tonight for the first time in ages when the girls were around. Dd1 was apparently somewhat upset and refused to say hi on the phone. Then told me that she hoped she wasn't coming.














this is really starting to bug me & make me sad too.
And yes--everyone else in the family gets along well with her, and there is absolutely no history of abuse or any real indication of that.


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

i agree that you should encourage your mom to visit and spend some time talking to your dd about appropriate ways to express her feelings about people she doesn't like. saying "i hate you" without any real reason behind it is just rude. it's perfectly fine not to like certain people, but it's not ok to be rude to them if they've never done anything bad to you. i would give your dd some choices about spending time with g'ma i.e. give her a choice about going somewhere with her or staying home, or spending time with her in the house or staying in her room. i would talk to your mom a bit about how your dd is processing some emotions about her, and ask her to be extra sensitive around her (and preferably not make the first move to interact at all).

i appreciate how sensitive you are being towards your dd. my aunt was really mean to me when i was young. she had always been my favourite aunt, but suddenly (or it seemed suddenly to me) she started kind of making fun of me, or my sister and her would gang up on me... i was really sensitive, and being teased or provoked by someone i really loved and trusted was devastating. my aunt just couldn't understand that her little jokes and barbs were taken very seriously by me, and unfortunately our relationship has never been the same. i think my mom handled it well though... when i went to her to tell her how i was feeling, she validated my reactions and gave me choices about spending time with her, but it was never acceptable to her for me to refuse to visit them altogether, or say that i hated her to her face.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

thanks SilverFish--I particularly appreciate your childhood memories as I've been having a hard time trying to imagine what dd might be experiencing.

I have invited grandma to come & she is coming. I am trying to think ahead to plan activities that dd can do without her. We have a birthday party to attend & I think I may take older dd to the indoor playground. Otherwise I plan for her to hang out with me and grandma to hang out with younger dd for the most part. We will be talking with her about how important it is to be polite. I'm hopeful that when she sees her she will remember many of the things that she enjoys doing with her. As mentioned in my first post, they have until now, had a very very close relationship. And I'm also hoping that maybe I will be able to observe what it is that could be bothering dd and help with that.

I will say something to grandma about dd needing some space etc.--she is usually extremely sensitive to her. I really really hope I can make it work.


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## delightedbutterfly (Oct 5, 2006)

Can you take her to a couple counselling appointments?

She could be not saying anything because she doesn't want to upset you and so she is not saying why. A counsellor isn't you and your daughter may feel more comfortable to open up to her.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

I did think about this brymommy, and we do have a child psych we've seen in the past. If it doesn't improve over time it might be a thought. I'm not sure she would open up to someone else but definitely think she feels constrained about talking to me....


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmamanow* 
thanks SilverFish--I particularly appreciate your childhood memories as I've been having a hard time trying to imagine what dd might be experiencing.

I have invited grandma to come & she is coming. I am trying to think ahead to plan activities that dd can do without her. We have a birthday party to attend & I think I may take older dd to the indoor playground. Otherwise I plan for her to hang out with me and grandma to hang out with younger dd for the most part. We will be talking with her about how important it is to be polite. I'm hopeful that when she sees her she will remember many of the things that she enjoys doing with her. As mentioned in my first post, they have until now, had a very very close relationship. And I'm also hoping that maybe I will be able to observe what it is that could be bothering dd and help with that.

I will say something to grandma about dd needing some space etc.--she is usually extremely sensitive to her. I really really hope I can make it work.

What if you ignored the behavior entirely. Not your daughter, but her behavior towards your mother. What if when g-ma comes she acts like nothing is wrong. Says hello to everyone comes in like normal. Do not do anything extra special for your daughter to keep her away. Ignore the behavior. I bet you she is going to make a scene that you are not paying her actions attention. Just don't give in.
My daughter was kind of like that with her uncle (my BIL). She really didn't care for him for some reason, which is weird because he is so sweet to her and adores her. She wouldn't go up and kiss him. I would have to remind her and the she would say she didn't want to. She would run away from him. I think it really hurt my bil's feelings. I told him to just ignore the behavior. Still say hello to her, but don't vie for her attention.

That last about a day and then she was running after him like a crazy girl!

I would do something like that Have g-ma not ignore your daughter, but make more of an effort to spend time with other family members. If you have another child, have gma sit and play with them. I wonder if she sees that the focus is not her and her behavior maybe she will stop.

Other than that, I am pretty strict and I would be having a stern talk with her AND gma in the same room.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TulsiLeaf* 
She wouldn't go up and kiss him. I would have to remind her and the she would say she didn't want to.

I would never advocate forcing someone (of any age) to kiss someone if s/he felt it uncomfortable.


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

Walking home from work this evening I had a thought about this situation. Another idea and of course it would depend on whether your mother felt comfortable or not with it is to have your mother talk to your daughter.

If she has a moment with her alone and can try and connect with her (ie) looking in eyes, caring voice) and say something like, " "Name of daughter" I understand you are pretty mad at me and that you don't like me right now."

Perhaps pausing there to see if she says anything. She could then say "I want you to know that you are my precious granddaughter and that I love you very much. If there is ever something I do that bothers you; I would like you let me know. I am sorry that I didn't listen to you in the past about tickling. I understand now that you don't like it. I just want you to know that I do care about you and if you ever want to talk - I would love to listen to you. "

And then just leave it. If she wants to say something she can; and if not maybe at a future time. I think this would be a powerful memory for your daughter of her grandmother years down the road and would model how as adults how we can deal with conflict.

It's between your daughter and your mother and maybe that may take off some of the pressure.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

This is a watershed moment for you as a parent -- the time when you protect your daughter's emotional life, or you don't.

Every time my parents told me that I shouldn't be feeling what I was feeling, it caused self-doubt to creep in. So now, as an adult, I have a hard time trusting my own feelings. Don't do that to your daughter.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama* 
Walking home from work this evening I had a thought about this situation. Another idea and of course it would depend on whether your mother felt comfortable or not with it is to have your mother talk to your daughter.

If she has a moment with her alone and can try and connect with her (ie) looking in eyes, caring voice) and say something like, " "Name of daughter" I understand you are pretty mad at me and that you don't like me right now."

Perhaps pausing there to see if she says anything. She could then say "I want you to know that you are my precious granddaughter and that I love you very much. If there is ever something I do that bothers you; I would like you let me know. I am sorry that I didn't listen to you in the past about tickling. I understand now that you don't like it. I just want you to know that I do care about you and if you ever want to talk - I would love to listen to you. "

And then just leave it. If she wants to say something she can; and if not maybe at a future time. I think this would be a powerful memory for your daughter of her grandmother years down the road and would model how as adults how we can deal with conflict.

It's between your daughter and your mother and maybe that may take off some of the pressure.


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
I would never advocate forcing someone (of any age) to kiss someone if s/he felt it uncomfortable.


I didn't say I forced her to kiss her uncle.

I said I reminded her.


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## Angela512 (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama* 
Walking home from work this evening I had a thought about this situation. Another idea and of course it would depend on whether your mother felt comfortable or not with it is to have your mother talk to your daughter.

If she has a moment with her alone and can try and connect with her (ie) looking in eyes, caring voice) and say something like, " "Name of daughter" I understand you are pretty mad at me and that you don't like me right now."

Perhaps pausing there to see if she says anything. She could then say "I want you to know that you are my precious granddaughter and that I love you very much. If there is ever something I do that bothers you; I would like you let me know. I am sorry that I didn't listen to you in the past about tickling. I understand now that you don't like it. I just want you to know that I do care about you and if you ever want to talk - I would love to listen to you. "

And then just leave it. If she wants to say something she can; and if not maybe at a future time. I think this would be a powerful memory for your daughter of her grandmother years down the road and would model how as adults how we can deal with conflict.

It's between your daughter and your mother and maybe that may take off some of the pressure.











I totally agree with this post.

There is something bothering your DD so much that she's still angry about it after many months.

I would do as some other suggested and say, "You do not have to like gma, but you do have to be respectful." I also would not be going out of my way to make activities for everyone to keep them separate. Unless, of course, I thought there was abuse going on (in which case, she wouldn't have been invited over) but to allow your DD this much control...over something that she's not verbalizing...is just asking for problems later on down the line.

I do like the idea that if she's so mad at gma, it needs to be expressed. I had this situation with my own DD and told her, "You can be mad at someone you love. But it is important to tell that person why you feel the way you do." My mom is very open and loving and so when DD went to her and said, "Gma, I'm mad at you because you said we would do this and that and then we never did and that made me mad." They were able to clear the air, my mom was able to explain why they didn't do the things they were planning on doing (place closed). Now, my DD feels like she can really talk with my mom and that my mom will listen.

My DD is a grudge holder, as well. I've always told her that she can still be respectful if she's mad. It is not acceptable to tell people she hates them, however, and it is not respectful to act like they are not there.

I hope your mom and DD can work this out. Please update when you can!


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intentionalmama* 
Walking home from work this evening I had a thought about this situation. Another idea and of course it would depend on whether your mother felt comfortable or not with it is to have your mother talk to your daughter.

If she has a moment with her alone and can try and connect with her (ie) looking in eyes, caring voice) and say something like, " "Name of daughter" I understand you are pretty mad at me and that you don't like me right now."

Perhaps pausing there to see if she says anything. She could then say "I want you to know that you are my precious granddaughter and that I love you very much. If there is ever something I do that bothers you; I would like you let me know. I am sorry that I didn't listen to you in the past about tickling. I understand now that you don't like it. I just want you to know that I do care about you and if you ever want to talk - I would love to listen to you. "

And then just leave it. If she wants to say something she can; and if not maybe at a future time. I think this would be a powerful memory for your daughter of her grandmother years down the road and would model how as adults how we can deal with conflict.

It's between your daughter and your mother and maybe that may take off some of the pressure.

that is a very good idea.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

Intentional mama, I really really like this. My mom would totally go for this. I am planning to call her in a few minutes to discuss the situation & give her a heads up, and I will suggest this. I am planning on telling dd tonight that she is coming & will be discussing expectations re: her being polite to grandma. That said my mom is a very forgiving, easygoing person and will overlook a lot, as dd is the apple of her eye. I am also planning a lot of fun activities this weekend that we can all take part in & that the whole family enjoys (swimming at the local pool, going the Farmer's Market, etc.)

A&A while I respect your perspective on this, I have to respectfully disagree. I have respected her feelings throughout this experience, I have validated that she is very angry and hurt, and can't express why. My daughter does have a tendency to hold grudges for months on end with people, and while I put a huge emphasis on respecting her feelings, this is not about putting my mom's needs over my daughters. This is about the needs of me, and my other daughter to see mom/grandma. At this point I think the most powerful lesson is that we love her no matter what and so does grandma, and her anger is not powerful enough to keep away the people who love her. But I really do appreciate your point of view, as it reflects the internal struggle I have been having, and I can certainly relate to your experience.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmamanow* 

A&A while I respect your perspective on this, I have to respectfully disagree. I have respected her feelings throughout this experience, I have validated that she is very angry and hurt, and can't express why. My daughter does have a tendency to hold grudges for months on end with people, and while I put a huge emphasis on respecting her feelings, this is not about putting my mom's needs over my daughters. This is about the needs of me, and my other daughter to see mom/grandma. At this point I think the most powerful lesson is that we love her no matter what and so does grandma, and her anger is not powerful enough to keep away the people who love her. But I really do appreciate your point of view, as it reflects the internal struggle I have been having, and I can certainly relate to your experience.


I guess it depends on how you handle the situation.

"You have every right to not like Grandma, but I still like her and I still want to see her," is different than ignoring your dd's feelings or pretending they will go away.


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
This is a watershed moment for you as a parent -- the time when you protect your daughter's emotional life, or you don't.

Every time my parents told me that I shouldn't be feeling what I was feeling, it caused self-doubt to creep in. So now, as an adult, I have a hard time trusting my own feelings. Don't do that to your daughter.

I understand where you are coming from. But there is a line.

there is a difference about not being able to feel what you want to feel and being outwardly mean to someone. I am not saying a 5 year old possess the capability to think of a grand scheme to upset grandma and manipulate the situation, but it could grow into that.

If grandma didn't do anything to warrant this behavior then the child needs to be taught that this isn't how we treat family. this isn't a toxic grandparent, this is a loving, well meaning grandma. There is way to compassionately teach children to not treat people like this. The longer it goes on, the more disrespectful the behavior is and needs to be corrected. It isn't anything about not allowing a child to feel what they want to feel. A child can feel that there friend is a horrid, mean, stinky, nasty person. But is it acceptable for them to say that? No. Should that be corrected? Yes.

If the OP was shoving the child towards grandma, yelling at her to kiss her and disciplining her harshly for not wanting to kiss and adore grandma then I would agree with you. I am sorry that you felt that way growing up and it effected you so deeply. But there is a way to teach a child to not treat people like that without doing what happened to you.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
This is a watershed moment for you as a parent -- the time when you protect your daughter's emotional life, or you don't.

Every time my parents told me that I shouldn't be feeling what I was feeling, it caused self-doubt to creep in. So now, as an adult, I have a hard time trusting my own feelings. Don't do that to your daughter.

I agree. My parents always made me obey... even when my internal sensors were going off like crazy. My relationship with them is quite distant now.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I guess it depends on how you handle the situation.

"You have every right to not like Grandma, but I still like her and I still want to see her," is different than ignoring your dd's feelings or pretending they will go away.

That's true, but I haven't seen the OP say anything in this thread that would indicate that she'd ignore her DD's feelings. Quite the opposite, actually.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I agree. My parents always made me obey... even when my internal sensors were going off like crazy. My relationship with them is quite distant now.

Yep, there are consequences to growing up "the good little girl."


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## buttercup784ever (Aug 22, 2008)

There is a difference between validating your child's feelings and allowing them to hold a grudge. OP's daughter doesn't seem interested in resolving the conflict between herself and her grandmother. After the initial "angry" period, that would be unacceptable for me. If she has a problem with a family member, she needs to learn to resolve those feelings and not harbor resentment forever with no resolution.

She doesn't have to like grandma, but she should not be allowed to bad mouth her to other family members including her mother. I wouldn't force any interaction between them, but grandma would still be welcome, and if DD made grandma uncomfortable for being there, we would have a BIG problem.

OP, what did you say to DD when she stated, "I wish grdma wouldn't come" while you were on the phone with her? Or when she says she hates grdma?


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *buttercup784ever* 
There is a difference between validating your child's feelings and allowing them to hold a grudge.

The dd should be allowed to hold her feelings as long as SHE chooses to, not having to conform to anyone else's "timeline of feelings." The beautiful irony is.........the more she feels validated, the less she will feel like she has to hold onto those feelings.

So the best way to avoid deep-seated "grudges" is to validate feelings early and often, not to somehow insist that the grudge should go away.


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## buttercup784ever (Aug 22, 2008)

She can have any feelings she wants to, she just shouldn't be able to ACT on those feelings. And I wouldn't allow her to bad mouth other family members to me for no other reason than "she feels like it".

I would sit her down and tell her that if she has a problem with grdma, she can talk to me about it. But that snide remarks made everytime grdma is brought up in conversation won't be tolerated.

I really can't believe you think that it's acceptable for a child to grow up thinking that just because they don't particularly like someone that everyone around them HAS to hear about it or the child will feel unvalidated. It's not a trait I'd foster in my kids, especially after being around adults who act this way.

Think about how miserable those feelings are making OP's dd. Fostering those feelings is not good for her! OP can validate the feelings without encouraging the behavior.


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

A&A, once again I have to respectfully disagree, as you really don't know my dd or my own parenting style.

You can validate this kid until the cows come home when it comes to certain things and it seems like it only inspires her to tell you more, more, more. This happened last summer with the daughter of our best friends. For 3 months we heard nothing but 'I hate T! I want to see her so I can push her down the stairs!' It just seems to be a temperament thing with her...she does eventually move on. She is a caring, loving little girl with strong opinions, I feel she is totally entitled to her feelings and opinions. But we do not tolerate rudeness & meanness toward the other person when that person is present.

If you read back, you will see that this has been going on since the middle of May. Everytime my mom's name comes up, she will say 'I don't want to see her, I don't like her.' I validated for about 6-7 weeks in which time we have not seen my mom at all, not talked to her on the phone (I have only called her from work), not skyped etc.

But really, I have validated her feelings respectfully. When she says I hate grandma! I say, it sounds like you are really mad at her. And she says yeah. Lather, rinse, repeat. And then I sometimes try and go through with her why she might be mad. But after a certain number of weeks of this, I have found myself saying: 'you know dd, grandma loves you and me very much. I know that if she ever did anything to hurt you she would feel very sad and want to fix it right away...if you can tell me what it is, I will talk to her for you." She hasn't ever come up with anything, only said I don't want to see her. And now that it has been all this time, and I mentioned she might be coming only for dd to say I don't want her to come. Well now I've been saying look, dd, I love my mom and I want to see her....and it makes me sad that you say you hate her. But that has come only after a lot of validation from me and also from my dp who is less emotionally invested and has been trying too.

That is why I am at such a loss. I really hope that when dd sees grandma she will realize that whatever she had built up in her head is not really as bad as she thought. My mom will also open the door to dd to talk to her about whatever it is that is bothering her.

I hope to return with a happy update in a few days!


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## buttercup784ever (Aug 22, 2008)

^^ I think that's the difference too. You have validated her feelings and tried to come up with a solution. When someone wrongs us unknowingly, it's only fair to tell them and allow them to make amends. It's not healthy to stay resentful.

I think there is also a difference between someone annoying you, and you not wanting to be around them, and HATING someone for something they did to wrong you. Does your DD understand the difference between intentional and unintentional? Maybe if she doesn't understand that concept yet, she may think that when people accidentally hurt her that they are doing it on purpose?


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

As long as you don't leave them alone together and your DD isn't required to interact with your mom, I think you can see your mom and still respect your DDs feelings. The middle of May has been quite some time.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ssh* 
*As long as you don't leave them alone together and your DD isn't required to interact with your mom*, I think you can see your mom and still respect your DDs feelings. The middle of May has been quite some time.

I think this would be key for me, too. And I would explain these things to my dd.....you don't have to be alone with her, you don't have to hug her or talk to her, and you don't have to like her, but you can't be mean to her."

OP, I truly hope this isn't the case, but it's possible that your dd may never like your mom. But hopefully, as an adult, she'll still want _you_ in her life, because you respected her feelings. I certainly make parenting mistakes, but I try to ask myself, "What kind of relationship do I want with this child when he/she is 25? And what do I need to do now to foster that?"

I just don't want to see you "win the battle but lose the war" on this one. I think you can continue your relationship with your mom without insisting that your dd have one, as well.

I'm sure it hurts, because you love your mom so much.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

For better or for worse, I can totally see myself in your dd. I guess that's why I'm sticking up for her so much. And you can't change your child's essential temperament.......you can only do your best to respect that temperament while meeting your own needs (again, seeing your mom but not leaving dd alone with her, etc.)


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

Just to let everyone know that Grandma is here and they are having a great time....the best time I've seen them have in a few months. Talking further to dd I think that it was an accumulation of little frustrations with my mom's anxiety that added up to her feeling like grandma was overbearing....and she didn't have the words to articulate that so she expressed it the way she felt comfortable. And I think us having given her the chance to express herself, and validating her, has meant that she is now ready to move on to enjoy her again. I am so relieved.

I'm so glad I invited my mom to come....this seems like a really relaxed, healing visit for both of them. Within 2.5 hours of her arriving, dd asked if she could stay up so she could do a craft with grandma. I think an earlier PP who suggested it was more of a relative thing...like compared to other grandparents who I adore, she is not as much fun, hit it right on the head.


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmamanow* 
Just to let everyone know that Grandma is here and they are having a great time....the best time I've seen them have in a few months. Talking further to dd I think that it was an accumulation of little frustrations with my mom's anxiety that added up to her feeling like grandma was overbearing....and she didn't have the words to articulate that so she expressed it the way she felt comfortable. And I think us having given her the chance to express herself, and validating her, has meant that she is now ready to move on to enjoy her again. I am so relieved.

I'm so glad I invited my mom to come....this seems like a really relaxed, healing visit for both of them. Within 2.5 hours of her arriving, dd asked if she could stay up so she could do a craft with grandma. I think an earlier PP who suggested it was more of a relative thing...like compared to other grandparents who I adore, she is not as much fun, hit it right on the head.

that is awesome. I am glad that it turned out well for your mum and daughter!


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## intentionalmama (Aug 23, 2008)

How wonderful! It sounds like you are really in touch with your child; and your openess to her helped her process some of her pent up feelings. I am so happy for your daughter, your mother and you.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

That's great.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *proudmamanow* 
And I think us having given her the chance to express herself, and validating her, has meant that she is now ready to move on to enjoy her again. I am so relieved.

A win-win for everyone!!


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## proudmamanow (Aug 12, 2003)

Visit is now over and it was really lovely. Dd spent lots of time sitting on grandma's lap while grandma read stories to her, and they did a couple of special crafts together and took special walks to the park (all at dd's initiative). After we dropped grandma off at the bus station today, dd spontaneously said "I'm glad grandma came to visit". She also asked me when she was coming again & if we could have her come for Christmas.









I think I have a better idea of what happened too--on the last visit, dd hung out with auntie the whole time, and didn't get any time with grandma, who was taking care of our little 2 yo, and I think she also felt jealous and like grandma didn't want to spend time with her. (even though they were following her lead in this).


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Yay! I'm so glad you persevered in this. A good grandmother/mother is absolutely worth working through difficult situations!


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