# Rudeness at Farmer's Market



## kssinca (Dec 17, 2006)

I had to go to my hospital to get a form signed and remembered that they had a Farmer's Market today. I wore DS in a front carry while I waited to get my form signed and he started to get sleepy so I switched him to the cradle hold. Plus we would be going out in the sun and I was going to use the tail to shield him from the sun.

I was walking around and this one vendor calls me over - I'm thinking he wants to give me a sample of his product. Instead, he tells me I'm endangering my baby by wearing him because he has friends whose baby suffocated in a sling. ?!?! WTF?!?! I was so shocked, I just said, Ok, Thank you and as I was walking away, he yelled, you should do some research on it!

He doesn't even know me! And what if I was nursing my baby at that moment??? I'm still shocked. I"m trying to tell myself that he was just sharing it out of concern but...wow.... I never had any negative comments from strangers until now.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Wow, I wonder if it was one of those trendy new bag slings instead of a pouch or ring sling. Those really are dangerous, they do suffocate babies a bit. They're ruining the reputation of babywearing too.


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## HisBeautifulWife (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm sure he was just trying to be helpful, not rude.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
Wow, I wonder if it was one of those trendy new bag slings instead of a pouch or ring sling. Those really are dangerous, they do suffocate babies a bit. They're ruining the reputation of babywearing too.

i've never seen this--link?

btw, OP, i think everyone at the market should THANK YOU for wearing your babe. our local market gets absurdly crowded due to all the strollers.


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## kssinca (Dec 17, 2006)

Jamie, DS was in a Maya ring sling.

HisBeautifulWife, I'm trying to tell myself he was just being helpful but I still feel his actions were rude.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kssinca* 
Jamie, DS was in a Maya ring sling.

HisBeautifulWife, I'm trying to tell myself he was just being helpful but I still feel his actions were rude.

If he really did know someone whose baby suffocated in a sling, he was probably just scared for your child. I call passable rudeness on that ... rude, but concerned rude, not pointless busybody rude.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

I meant like these: http://www.premaxx.com/en/products/baby-bag/index.aspx

Didn't think you were using one, but maybe the person he knew who lost their child was?


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## sugareemoma (Jan 20, 2009)

Yesterday morning a bus driver told me I needed to get my 's*it' together & take my child out of that thing if I was going to ride his bus! I had my dd in a Hemp Diddymos Indio which cost more than the two strollers that were allready on the bus. I told the guy not to be such an a** to people he doesn't know & waited for the next bus!


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## cadens_momma (May 3, 2009)

WTF is wrong with people and why do they feel the need to tell people what to do.I have to give it up to you ladies for being just that lady's because I swear I would probably loose it . Especially to the bus driver who the hell is he. Sorry this whole thing has just made me so angry as if you all are endangering your babies by wearing them . Actually there's data that proves it helps with bonding and security and intelligence maybe they should all go read before they open there mouths . Keep wearing those babies mommas







as long as your backs will allow


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Liquesce* 
If he really did know someone whose baby suffocated in a sling, he was probably just scared for your child. I call passable rudeness on that ... rude, but concerned rude, not pointless busybody rude.

I have to agree - I'm sure he wasn't trying to offend you, just showing concern in his own way.


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## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

Maybe this is why the librarian was glaring at my LO in the ring sling...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugareemoma* 
Yesterday morning a bus driver told me I needed to get my 's*it' together & take my child out of that thing if I was going to ride his bus! I had my dd in a Hemp Diddymos Indio which cost more than the two strollers that were allready on the bus. I told the guy not to be such an a** to people he doesn't know & waited for the next bus!

I don't even get it. What was he implying?


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

Sorry I don't have links available to me right now, but there is at least 1 study that shows that babies' O2 saturation levels went down when worn improperly in the cradle hold. The bag slings make it much harder to position the baby correctly. You need to be sure the babies chin isn't forced onto their chest. I believe the rule of thumb is 2 fingers between chin and chest. (Not totally sure on that since I never used cradle holds much as DD hated them)

OP sorry you felt harassed







I agree he was rude, but, personally I'd give him a pass in this situation.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

I do know of one baby that died in a sling. At Disneyland no less. It was sad & tragic, but it wasn't the sling. The baby had an undiagnosed heart condition that they found about years later when the Dad had a heart problem come up, that was clearly genetic.
Funny you are in CA, so was this particular family.
Wear your baby proudly....that guy doesn't know bunk!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

I hate to be a downer, but it really is true that there are documented cases (very rare, but I know of two that can be verified) of babies dying in "real" slings like the kinds we recommend here. One was at a LLL meeting where there were a number of babywearers I know from online present.









So it's not just bag slings. It's possible to get incorrect chin-to-chest positioning in a ring sling, a pouch, a mei tai, a wrap, a ssc....and if you combine that with fabric over the baby so you get rebreathing, and especially if it's a newborn baby or one with special needs, then yes, it can be a dangerous combination of factors.

HOWEVER -- obviously it's a rare occurrence, and there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater as some people have done and condemn all baby carriers, or even worse to harass mamas at farmers' markets! That's just not helpful.

NEVERTHELESS -- all babywearers need to be aware of the importance of proper positioning, in ALL baby carriers, whether they're the yucky bag sling types or the fanciest ring sling made from fair trade organically grown and humanely harvested rare silk colored under the full moon by fairies and gnomes.









A chin to chest position should always be avoided, and baby's face shouldn't be obscured with fabric unless mama is paying close attention to make sure there's air circulation and no rebreathing/suffocation risk.

One of the reasons I emphasize upright, tummy-to-tummy positions for newborns and little babies over cradle positions is because I believe they're safer.

I totally don't think that this guy at the farmer's market should have harassed the OP -- that was just freakin' rude -- but I also don't think that we should assume that just because we're using the right brands, not those crappy BRU brands, that positional asphyxia isn't a real risk.


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

I'm sorry. But one simple F off! would've been my response.










I do think he's being rude. And perhaps I'm a little sensitive but no one says a damn word when my kids' dad wore ds. EVER. I got comments here and there. stares like I was a freak. And mind you, I was sporting all kinds of fabulous SSCs. i digress. but it annoys me women are told what to do as if we need to take commands. the vendor needs to do his own freakin' research.

as Quirky emphasized. it's rare.

Babies can die or seriously injured in strollers, in car seats, left in cars, strollers that got caught between the subway door and the platform, etc.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maymorales* 
the vendor needs to do his own freakin' research.

From the OP the vendor stated that he personally knew a child that died in a sling so in his mind that is most likely more than enough research that it is possible for a child to die in a sling. He wasn't attacking the OP, he probably saw her child in a sling and it brought back a rush of memories and he warned the OP of a problem that did in fact happen in his life. He wasn't being vindictive, just giving a (possibly harsh sounding) word of caution - probably something that he wishes someone had done in his friend's situation.


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## emamum (Dec 4, 2008)

i have a premaxx !! i havent used it yet and i probably wont now!

i shouldnt have opened this thread, im gunna worry even more now!


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugareemoma* 
Yesterday morning a bus driver told me I needed to get my 's*it' together & take my child out of that thing









weirdos.

I have a premax too! It was given to me. DS hates the cradle holds, so I haven't used it. I'll just wait till he can sit unassisted and use it as a hip thingy.

I always thought the bag ones were a bit akward


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## BellaRose0212 (Apr 3, 2009)

I really don't understand the bus driver comment at all. What WAS he implying? That you could not afford a stroller so you just stuck your baby in a potato sack? Ugh.

I wish someone would point out the dangers of strollers to more women, especially those that just keeped them locked in 24/7. More babies are dying of SIDS because they never get out of their newborn carrier, I think it is probably more like failure to thrive because of lack of physical contact.

There should be more info out there about proper positioning of newborns and people to help, like LLL Lactation Consultants.

You know, I had real trouble positioning dd when she was a newborn and I actually just carried her for a while. I had one of those baby bags from Infantino, never used it, she just did not fit right in it, then I heard it was recalled due to faulty strap. The sling I had said to put a towel in to position a newborn so they could breathe properly, but no matter what I did, it seemed she was just too scrunched. Soon though, she grew a little and it was better, we used slings for a little while. She was a big girl so before I knew it (2 mos) we were using a front carrier. Then I found the ergo and it saved my life (she was heavy and the ergo has better weight distribution).

You can use front carriers with little ones, they have infant inserts.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sugareemoma* 
Yesterday morning a bus driver told me I needed to get my 's*it' together & take my child out of that thing if I was going to ride his bus! I had my dd in a Hemp Diddymos Indio which cost more than the two strollers that were allready on the bus. I told the guy not to be such an a** to people he doesn't know & waited for the next bus!

I would have asked for his supervisor's name.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

The librarian in the children's department at story time one day said to me "And here's the baby in a bag again!" All chipper and with a smile. Uh, what? It's not like I was toting her around in a paper bag from Trader Joe's, she's in a sling. And since story time is usually crowded with a bunch of other babies in strollers (and 3.5 yos in strollers during an event aimed at them that includes dancing, ah, but I digress) and since DD1 tends to need a lot of my attention during story time, it's easier to have abby in the sling. But, what? I think she thought she was just being cute, or didn't know the right term, but whatever. Her comment put me in a mood.

At Target, I had DD1 (2.5) in the cart and DD2 in a sling. The cashier proceeded to have a loud conversation with another cashier about how she'd "never do *that* with a baby (jerking her head in my direction) because it's, like, so unsafe, you know? And, like, who wants to be that close to a kid for that long, right?" I told her I didn't come to Target looking for ignorant parenting advice, and could she please double bag the milk? She shut up right quick. I should have spoken to the manager, but I didn't have any time that day.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
At Target, I had DD1 (2.5) in the cart and DD2 in a sling. The cashier proceeded to have a loud conversation with another cashier about how she'd "never do *that* with a baby (jerking her head in my direction) because it's, like, so unsafe, you know? And, like, who wants to be that close to a kid for that long, right?" I told her I didn't come to Target looking for ignorant parenting advice, and could she please double bag the milk? She shut up right quick. I should have spoken to the manager, but I didn't have any time that day.

Love your response.









I would have found time to make a phone call later, though.







: What a passive aggressive UAV.







If you're going to be critical of my parenting choices, at least have the balls to speak your mind _to_ me about it instead of _about_ me, yk?


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## tayndrewsmama (May 25, 2004)

Here's a link to read. http://babyslingsafety.blogspot.com/

I think that people who mean well sometimes are not aware of how they speak. If he didn't care at all he wouldn't have said anything.

I had a Maya wrap with ds and I clearly remember tossing it into the closet because it seemed as though he couldn't breathe in it. I hauled it back out when he was big enough that I wasn't concerned about his breathing in it. This time I am planning on getting a Babyhawk and perhaps a Didymos as well.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellaRose0212* 
I wish someone would point out the dangers of strollers to more women, especially those that just keeped them locked in 24/7. More babies are dying of SIDS because they never get out of their newborn carrier, I think it is probably more like failure to thrive because of lack of physical contact.

This kind of statement is the same as saying that all slings are dangerous for babies. Sweeping generalizations make people stop listening. Do you have a link that states the increase in sids is dierctly related to babies being in newborn carseats because I personally have never heard that before (doesn't mean that it is wrong just that I have never heard such a statement before).


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## AllieFaye (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
Wow, I wonder if it was one of those trendy new bag slings instead of a pouch or ring sling. *Those really are dangerous*, they do suffocate babies a bit. They're ruining the reputation of babywearing too.

Bolding mine. This is patently false. Any sling can be dangerous if it is worn incorrectly. It is possible to wear these incorrectly? Yes. They are not ruining the reputation of babywearing. I'm very, very angry at this comment.







It's neither true nor fair.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieFaye* 
Bolding mine. This is patently false. Any sling can be dangerous if it is worn incorrectly. It is possible to wear these incorrectly? Yes. They are not ruining the reputation of babywearing. I'm very, very angry at this comment.







It's neither true nor fair.

Hmm... I don't know about the danger part, but I think she has a point about the reputation thing.
I have several friends who are won't even consider babywearing again after having only tried extremely uncomfortable trendy/mainstream carriers such as the Bjorn, Snugli, Premaxx...


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## Happily Blessed (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
From the OP the vendor stated that he personally knew a child that died in a sling so in his mind that is most likely more than enough research that it is possible for a child to die in a sling. He wasn't attacking the OP, he probably saw her child in a sling and it brought back a rush of memories and he warned the OP of a problem that did in fact happen in his life. He wasn't being vindictive, just giving a (possibly harsh sounding) word of caution - probably something that he wishes someone had done in his friend's situation.









:


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I've met with some negativity while babywearing, the best solution I've found is a gentle smile and a little education.

One friend who was aghast at the idea tried out my ring sling with his newborn and was practically dancing around when he discovered that he had a little more freedom to accomplish things.

The public health nurse thought that they only 'did that' with kangaroo care preemies.

It's frustrating and disheartening to realize how deeply mass marketing has impacted what we see as the norm. We 'need' strollers, and bouncers, and swings, and travel systems. Somewhere along the line, we stopped meeting the childrens' and parents' needs in lieu of the manufacturers.


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieFaye* 
Bolding mine. This is patently false. Any sling can be dangerous if it is worn incorrectly. It is possible to wear these incorrectly? Yes. They are not ruining the reputation of babywearing. I'm very, very angry at this comment.







It's neither true nor fair.

Actually there is good evidence that bag slings compromise oxygen saturation in babies, even when worn as best as possible. I will link to the article later, that site is down now. It is definitely possible to wear any sling incorrectly and unsafely, but it is nearly impossible to get a good safe position in a bag sling.

ETA: http://www.thebabywearer.com/forum/s...d.php?t=205359
I don't think you have to register to see this thread, but if you do lmk I'll try to find the info elsewhere.


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