# "They circumcised my son on the delivery table"



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I was reading a birth story today. The woman gave birth in 1976 and was an RN at the time. She talked about the birth (which is a rant in and of itself), then at the end mentioned that her son was born, they circumcised him RIGHT THERE ON THE DELIVERY TABLE, then took him out to her mother.

I've only heard of this once before, where a baby was taken right from the mother (her body, not her arms!) to the warmer and the OB immediately walked over and circumcised him before leaving. Was this a common practice in the 70's? I can't believe that a minutes-old baby would be circumcised, not even old enough for the second Apgar!


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Sickening.







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## bionicsquirrel (Jan 2, 2003)

Poor baby and mama.


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## RolliePollie (May 10, 2006)

I'm not sure, but when my MIL talked about her labor and delivery she made some off handed comment about how "They didn't even circumcise him until I asked!"... Like it should have been standard procedure.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

my dh was circ'ed immediately after birth. so were both his brothers. :-( His mother wasn't even consulted. 1940's and 50's. One could think there's no where but up left to go...


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

****** RL, Snyder DC. Immediate circumcision of the newborn male. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 1953:65(1):1-11.

"It is the purpose of this paper to endorse a possibly more suitable time to perform this operation, immediately after the birth of the newborn."

From a list of 9 reasons given in support of immediate circumcision:

"Convenience: Prior to this new plan the circumcisions were performed between the third and seventh days and a line-up on Sunday mornings was routine. It meant an extra trip hospital trip, a good deal of uncomfortable delay between cases, and the resulting traffic problem in the birth rooms was prodigious. Under the present regime, the obstetrician finishes his episiotomy, walks across the hall and circumcises the infant, and is finished with the whole business. The time thus saved for both the physician and the nursing staff is considerable."

"Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; circumcision unfailingly produces an excellent response in a sleepy baby."

"Pain: Although the pain sense is present at birth, it is much less intense than in later infancy."

Conclusions: "The convenience and time saving afforded both physicians and nurses are considerable; we have not been able to find a doctor who would consider doing it at any other time. The mother signs the circumcision permit when she is admitted to the labor room, the doctor finishs the operation after he has completed his delivery, there is no conflict in the scheduling of cases, and no babies are forgotten and left uncircumcised.

"During 1950 there were 2480 immediate circumcision performed in Akron City Hospital with no demonstrable ill effect on the weight curve, temperature, feeding, healing process, or general well-being of the infants... For these reasons, as well as those of economy, convenience, safety, rapidity of healing, and close hospital observation we feel that immediate circumcision of the newborn male infant might well be more universally adopted."

Gillian


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## RolliePollie (May 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
****** RL, Snyder DC. Immediate circumcision of the newborn male. American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. 1953:65(1):1-11.

"It is the purpose of this paper to endorse a possibly more suitable time to perform this operation, immediately after the birth of the newborn."

From a list of 9 reasons given in support of immediate circumcision:

"Convenience: Prior to this new plan the circumcisions were performed between the third and seventh days and a line-up on Sunday mornings was routine. It meant an extra trip hospital trip, a good deal of uncomfortable delay between cases, and the resulting traffic problem in the birth rooms was prodigious. Under the present regime, the obstetrician finishes his episiotomy, walks across the hall and circumcises the infant, and is finished with the whole business. The time thus saved for both the physician and the nursing staff is considerable."

"Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; circumcision unfailingly produces an excellent response in a sleepy baby."

"Pain: Although the pain sense is present at birth, it is much less intense than in later infancy."

Conclusions: "The convenience and time saving afforded both physicians and nurses are considerable; we have not been able to find a doctor who would consider doing it at any other time. The mother signs the circumcision permit when she is admitted to the labor room, the doctor finishs the operation after he has completed his delivery, there is no conflict in the scheduling of cases, and no babies are forgotten and left uncircumcised.

"During 1950 there were 2480 immediate circumcision performed in Akron City Hospital with no demonstrable ill effect on the weight curve, temperature, feeding, healing process, or general well-being of the infants... For these reasons, as well as those of economy, convenience, safety, rapidity of healing, and close hospital observation we feel that immediate circumcision of the newborn male infant might well be more universally adopted."

Gillian


This makes me want to cry and vomit. All at the same time. If only they knew how terribly that may have perpetuated a vicious cycle.







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## baybee (Jan 24, 2005)

I posted some time back a story from a dr who reported a surgeon doing the circumcision "free hand". In other words, he just took a scalpel, wrenched the little prepuce way out and whacked at it. Her point was that there were a lot of boys in that town with lopsided circumcisions. I agree, it's enough to make you throw up.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)




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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Thats sad. Welcome to the world, snip!







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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *christifav* 







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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 

there is no conflict in the scheduling of cases, and no babies are forgotten and left uncircumcised.

Yeah, wouldn't want to forget one! That could be a car payment right there, leaving the hospital unscathed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
"During 1950 there were 2480 immediate circumcision performed in Akron City Hospital with no demonstrable ill effect on the weight curve, temperature, feeding, healing process, or *general well-being* of the infants...

No ill effects except they had an unnecessary amputation!! I guess a raw, seeping, oozing wound in your diaper getting stung every time you pee is not an ill effect either.

Thanks for posting that, Gillian, it is more proof that all hospital routines are set up for the convenience of the doctors, not the patients' best interests. Ugh.

Jen


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## pammysue (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
"Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; *circumcision unfailingly produces an excellent response in a sleepy baby*."


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## Ecstatic (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow, that's terrible.







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I'm not sure how it went with my partner, but he was born in 1965 and adopted at 6 weeks. But, I'm sure it wasn't far off from these descriptions.


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## layla983 (Oct 8, 2007)

In the hospital I was born at in the early 80's, they did the circs right after birth in the delivery rooms. They told my mom they'd do it then if I came out a boy, & according to my dad, he knew I was a girl while he waited outside in the waiting area because the crying from my mom's delivery room wasn't the same as others who had boys. It didn't get "more high pitched" according to him.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.







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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:

Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.








That is truly sick.







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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.







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Sounds like a circ urban legend to me. Docs have to keep breech babies' bodies covered before the head comes out because the cold air will make them take a breath. If cold air is enough of a shock to make them breathe, certainly the pain of a circ would cause them to take a breath. If they breathe before their head's out, they can breathe in amniotic fluid.

Not to mention the fact that most (not all) breech babies will come out with their genitals facing the floor if the mother's on her back. That would make it pretty difficult for the doc to get to their penis to cut it.


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

I know that with my DH and BIL, my ILs discussed it in advance because my MIL made the whole big thing about "after we discussed it I decided that I would let my husband decide, because you know the man should decide things like this"







: DH was not circumcised at birth because he had hypospadias, but BIL was pretty much right away.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.







:


Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
Sounds like a circ urban legend to me. Docs have to keep breech babies' bodies covered before the head comes out because the cold air will make them take a breath. If cold air is enough of a shock to make them breathe, certainly the pain of a circ would cause them to take a breath. If they breathe before their head's out, they can breathe in amniotic fluid.

Not to mention the fact that most (not all) breech babies will come out with their genitals facing the floor if the mother's on her back. That would make it pretty difficult for the doc to get to their penis to cut it.

I sure hope it's an urban legend! Holy crow! Never mind making sure the baby's born alive, just make sure you circumscise him! Geez!


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.







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Well that's one way to make sure you don't hear him screaming...


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

This might explain why my MIL thinks her sons are intact (they aren't.) BIL was born in 76 and dh in 81. I doubt would have noticed. Hmmm.


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## Kimono (Aug 29, 2004)

I asked my Mom when my brother was circumcised and she indicated it was right there in the delivery room after he was born. I'm guessing no pain relief either. This was 1976 in Michigan.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Geez!







: My boys were circed right before discharge...bad enough but, man...


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## CorasMama (May 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Sadly, I'm not surprised. I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.







:

I just threw up a little in my throat.


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## SweetTeach (Oct 5, 2003)

It's disgusting at any time on an unconsenting person but geez. What a screwed up culture we live in.







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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Gosh, to think this probably happened to my poor husband as a baby. I had no idea that they did it so soon back then. Absolutely horrific. I guess I'm glad I was a girl!!


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganf* 
Gosh, to think this probably happened to my poor husband as a baby. I had no idea that they did it so soon back then. Absolutely horrific. I guess I'm glad I was a girl!!

Me, too.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

This is shocking! Definitely sheds light on the mistaken idea that "health" is the primary concern in American hospitals.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
no babies are forgotten and left uncircumcised.

Wow.








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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.
I read this on a website, I think an article from about 1967 mentioned a doctor who loved doing this in the 50s.

I can't find the website so I can't say if its authentic, though not really any stranger than many things doctors do.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *serendipity22* 
I think an article from about 1967 mentioned *a doctor who loved doing this* in the 50s.

Wow. uke







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## baybee (Jan 24, 2005)

There's an awful case in the obstetrical literature where a baby boy being born frank breech (bum presenting with legs straight up like a jackknife) had his penis accidentally amputated when the dr did an episiotomy on the mother.

Knowing that kind of thing can happen is another reason to stay out of a hosp for birth.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *baybee* 
There's an awful case in the obstetrical literature where a baby boy being born frank breech (bum presenting with legs straight up like a jackknife) had his penis accidentally amputated when the dr did an episiotomy on the mother.

Because the doctor didn't care enogh to look where he was cutting?!?!?!


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## Raelynn (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *baybee* 
There's an awful case in the obstetrical literature where a baby boy being born frank breech (bum presenting with legs straight up like a jackknife) had his penis accidentally amputated when the dr did an episiotomy on the mother.

OMG that is awful







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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
From a list of 9 reasons given in support of immediate circumcision:

"Convenience: Prior to this new plan the circumcisions were performed between the third and seventh days and a line-up on Sunday mornings was routine. It meant an extra trip hospital trip, a good deal of uncomfortable delay between cases, and the resulting traffic problem in the birth rooms was prodigious. Under the present regime, the obstetrician finishes his episiotomy, walks across the hall and circumcises the infant, and is finished with the whole business. The time thus saved for both the physician and the nursing staff is considerable."

"Stimulation of the baby: Frequently following a general anesthetic the newborn is depressed and various stimulants are employed; circumcision unfailingly produces an excellent response in a sleepy baby."

"Pain: Although the pain sense is present at birth, it is much less intense than in later infancy."

uke uke uke
Just the idea of someone typing this up makes me want to puke, let alone thinking about it actually being implemented as a policy.


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

I remember hearing a story from that time period of a boy being born breech & being circumcised even before his head was born.
I eventually googled it after recalling a line in the article about interns fighting over who gets to circumcise.

http://www.xcircum.com/images/Dear.pdf
Its on page 4.

I believe its authentic.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I just had to sit and read the whole article. I wish I didn't. It blew my mind. I don't know what else to say.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Wow. This makes me wonder if my Mom had to do something special to make sure my brothers weren't circ'ed in the hospital (so they could have the Bris at 8 days old.) They were born in 1969 and 1971.

Between BF and not circ'ing for the first week, she must have been considered a real hippie in those days!


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

omg. that is just heartbreaking. i wonder if this is the way it happend for dh.








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