# Need new approach for preteen, hormonal girl!



## Jadegrniiz (May 14, 2004)

I'm new here - referred to the site from another online community friend who posts here frequently.

Anyhow, I am trying to change some of my parenting to AP methods, and the one area I fall short is disciplining my nearly 12 year old daughter. She is entering that stage in her life where her hormones are out of control. She talks back, she's ugly and hateful at times and she does NOT listen. And, she knows how to really push my buttons.

As a preschooler, she was spanked - but I really don't agree with that anymore and she's too old regardless. Taking things away from her mean nothing - she'll find something else to entertain her. And, I don't think taking everything out of her room and locking her in with a book for a week will fix the problems either. We can talk until we are blue in the face, offer compromises and STILL we have problems.

She's not a bad kid. She doesn't get into trouble at school, but she does have a social butterfly disease (talks too much, etc). Her biggest offense is her failure to do her chores daily, and frankly she doesn't care whether she does them or not because we are currently out of ways to discipline her.

Suggestions or ideas?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Welcome to MDC! I'm glad to have you here. I don't know if I'm qualified to speak to your problem since my oldest child is only 7 yo. However I am pleased to have a mama here with an older child. I hope you'll stick around.

When I read your post my gut feeling was that you need to find ways to reconnect with your dd. I believe gentle discipline is at its best when the foundation is a firm attachment between parent and child. Knowing each other well, and trusting each other is the first step. So, maybe a weekly mother-daughter night out? Something like that?

I'll be interested to hear some responses from other members!


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

My oldest is four but


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

oh my...I am with ya! I am relatively new here but I have a 13 year old bundle of progesterone and estrogen running amok as well...it's so frustrating...

The way I deal with it is this...

Disrespect is not allowed~all priviliges are immediatly taken away for that day when there is name calling, yelling etc....my daughter too is a social butterfly...she is(or would be) constantly on the phone or online talking to friends...I have taken away the phone and computer...seh earns minutes on them...disrespect...she doesn't get to use my phone or computer..

I also base teh allowance on chores done without nagging etc.

I also found that writing out the rules clearly and posting them made them more real...and the "I didn't know" excuse gets cut to a minimum...also I add rules as they find new things to bug(usually I let them off the first time they do the new thing then they know for further reference and I get them to write it on the rule list)

It is a tough age...what also helped was keeping track of her cycles...so at least I know when she is bound to be angry, weepy, itchy with a "b" etc. so I can be a little gentler and more understanding with her...

Good Luck!

I took everything away except her stereo..I have a block on the computer and tv and nothing gets used including the phone until the chores are done..(my 9 year old is a tv fiend so that's her motivation)

I do not allow tv's in the bedroom or video games. I do not give them privelidges and take them away if they misbehave...I just don't give them the privileges we have until they have fulfilled their duty.

I also talk talk talk to them everyday...how was your day? What happened? what homework? They complain about teachers I try to listen and understand and try to respect their opinion.


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## Nanner (Apr 12, 2002)

My dd is young still, but I am not to awfully far from 12-13 to remember what it was like. My only real suggestion is to do less punishment/consequences and more connecting at that age. After 12 years of parenting, a lot of what you have been trying to teach is, or has, sunken in. So now, I think, you should be less concerned with the daily trivial crap and more concerned with making sure communication lines stay open. I remember being not nice at all to my Mom at that age, though I was well-behaved in school and never went too far out of line. Having clear limits as to acceptable behavior (like at all ages) is good, but I really think that punishment is not too great overall but especially at this age.
I personally am for minimal punishment, but not as the main mode for shaping behavior. It is often a quick-fix, like a band-aid- superficial and not really teaching what you want, but sometimes band-aids are good too.
Anyway, good luck. That has to be the toughest age of all!
Sara


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## mountainmommy (Mar 22, 2003)

quote: a lot of what you have been trying to teach is, or has, sunken in. So now, I think, you should be less concerned with the daily trivial crap and more concerned with making sure communication lines stay open. (nanner)

couldn't have said it better myself!

at that age, I remember really wanting my parents to respect me...I wasn't a "kid" anymore! I really wish that my mother had connected with me more..through shopping dates, etc etc...we didn't get close again for a good ten years









what kind of chores does she have to do? I remember that I was such a brain at that age....i resented doing dishes because it was mindless. I was not yet old enough to appreciate the zen quality of chores







My mother would have had more success with me if she had assigned me to read bedtime stories to my younger siblings or cook dinner...something a bit more creative, ya know? But more important than the piddly stuff was definitely taking time out to connect instead of bicker. at 13 my confusion was this: I made straight A's and was a very good kid...but didn't want to keep my closet tidy. So what?!!! I still feel and act this way today, actually!







:

good luck, and above all else teach her humor.


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## mountainmommy (Mar 22, 2003)

I've heard good reports on the book titled "Reviving Ophelia" for this age group.

also, does anybody here remeber that article in mothering...maybe a year or so ago in a back issue...it was a mother and now-grown 20-something son discussing his teen years....if anybody has the issue number on it I think the OP may find it very helpful...it was an article set in dialogue form...a conversation between mother and son.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I have an 11 year old daughter, too....

We don't do chores. I've found that it works better to focus on the importance of a family working together and doing things to help each other out. Today Rain cleaned her room, washed the car with me, and washed and hung a load of laundry. Some days she does nothing, although since I started WOH some days it seems like she does more, because more needs to be done.

I think it's important to get out of the punishment mindset before your daughter hits adolescence, so you have a strong foundation of disciplining in a non-punitive way before the teen stuff hits.

What if you let go of chores - let her know that you appreciate and value her help, but you'd rather have her help because she wants to, not because she has to. Then let it go for a while, expect her to do nothing, and don't give her a hard time. After a week or two you might want to do some non-threatening asking - "Hey, could you fold this laundry while you watch your show?' but accept yes or no. See how it goes...

I think school problems are between your daughter and the school... if she gets in trouble for talking to much, she can deal with it, but as long as the discipline there doesn't seem objectionable you can be empathetic and uninvolved.

Dar


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

As usual, ITA with Dar.

From Your Child's Self-Esteem, by Dorothy Corkille Briggs

Quote:

Withholding of privileges is another popular device for control. Every time Billy misbehaves, his parents take away his motor scooter. They use the one thing he loves to keep him in line. Even if it makes him mind, this builds resentment and emphasizes helplessness. It makes a child long to escape the clutches of those who pull their rank. And it can make him hunger for power.
Spanking is also one of the control devices she mentions.

Quote:

Behavior controlled by outside authority usually lasts as long as the authority figure is present.

Quote:

A profound disadvantage is that authoritarianism encourages dependency. "Listen to me! I'll tell you what to do!"
And when are people going to learn that respect is a two-way street?


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Sorry, dd walked in on me. I didn't get to finish.

So, the first thing I would do is examine the reasons behind the way I am reacting to my dd. Have I been fed a bunch of bs in the media about my 12 year-old dd turning into a reckless, verbally abusive monster? Do I fear that? Do I fear that if I don't "discipline" her she will be a failure in life, or run away, or get pregnant?

I also really enjoyed Mountainmommy's post.


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## Natsuki (May 4, 2004)

(this is long but i hope it will be helpful. i was a 'challenging' middle-schooler not that long ago)

The middle school years are one of the most difficult ages. I completely agree with the others that you need to work really really hard at your relationship with your daughter--spending lots of time together, letting her vent (without freaking out about what she says--heck, once i told my mom i planned to smoke pot when i was in college and wanted to try LSD, she didn't freak out but just explained why she thought it was not the wisest decision and that i should probably reconsider it--she also never brought it up again. That taught me that i could tell anything to my mom and she wouldn't freak out and would actually listen to what i said--i knew she respected me).

Even if she acts like she loathes every minute you spend with her, keep doing it--perseverance is the key. At the time she may hate it, but when she is older she will remember you persevereing in loving her and that will mean a lot.

In terms of 'privileges', i agree about that not necessarily working well as punishment. I still think that 'grounding' is stupid and am SO GLAD that my parents never used that on me. However, if your daughter has lost your trust for legitimate reasons i see nothing wrong with making clear to her that her activities outside of your supervision are going to be greatly restricted until she has proved herself trustworthy again.

My chores growing up were tied to my personal well-being--i.e., doing my laundry, making my lunch for school, cleaning the bathroom that i used--so there were very clear natural consequences to not doing them. However, this also made me pretty selfish and think that i didn't need to help out around the rest of the house since i wasn't 'required to' and it's taken me awhile to get out of that mindset to be more helpful. My allowance was tied to completing some chores, and i knew what the deduction was if i didn't do them--i.e., if my allowance was $5/week i'd lose $1 for not cleaning the bathroom.

When i was at that stage, the BEST thing my mom did was NOT react to me when i was argumentative. I wanted so so so badly to be able to get 'legitimately' angry with her and have a true 'fight' so that i could complain and feel i could be justified in rebelling against her .

I remember thinking to myself _"It's SO annoying that mom doesn't react to me when i'm disrespectful b/c i want her to get mad and yell at me like other parents do! I want a reaction! My parents are too logical in how they deal with things, they're not irrational so i have no reason to get mad at them--but i want to be mad! And they won't let me b/c they stay so calm!"_ (i was not the most clear headed when i was 12-13 years old ).

When we disagreed she'd explain her logical reasons for her decision, let me state my case again, and then calmly reaffirm her reasons for the decision. That was it, end of story, and although i would continue to try and debate and get her to change her mind she would always answer me calmly (and if i had a legitimate case she wasn't afraid to change her mind). I might raise my voice and get upset and cry, but they didn't react follow suit which kept things a lot calmer.

They always explained their reasons for decisions to me. I have ALWAYS appreciated this b/c it taught me that i could trust my parents' decisions, that they weren't just being arbitrary and controlling but had a definite purpose.

Now don't necessarily expect her to let it show that she agrees with you/sees where you're coming from. But deep down she probably IS listening and will remember what you said--even if she chooses to disobey it.

This is what worked really well with me when i was being difficult and i really respected my parents (in the midst of my difficultness) b/c i saw them handling the situation well and not being drawn into my emotional battle. I can count on one hand the number of disagreements my parents and i had once i started high school until now and a big part of that is how they communicated their reasons and thoughts logically to us and listened to our view of things with respect. I knew i could get a 'fair hearing' with them about stuff.

ETA: I just realized that DH and i don't have yelling 'fights' at all either. We just calmly talk things through, stating the reasons for why we feel a certain way and then listening to the other person's side of things. I believe a big part of this is the way my parents raised me and demonstrated not 'reacting' but instead listening and being calm and rational.


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