# The Pregnancy Police



## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

The Pregnancy Police

Quote:

In 1997, South Carolina used this law against a pregnant woman, Cornelia Whitner, who was charged with failing "to provide proper medical care for her unborn child." Whitner had given birth to a healthy baby who tested positive for an illegal drug. Based on extrapolation of the state feticide law, Ms. Whitner was convicted of criminal child abuse. At sentencing Ms. Whitner begged for drug treatment. The judge responded, "I think I'll just let her go to jail."

Quote:

While South Carolina ranks number one in murders of women by men and last in the number of state dollars spent on drug treatment, the primary targets of the state's fetal protection laws are pregnant women and new mothers who need drug treatment and mental health services. As a result, scores of women in South Carolina who could benefit from treatment have been arrested, some escorted from hospitals in chains and shackles while still pregnant, others still bleeding just following a delivery. According to the Association for Addiction Professionals, women throughout the country "are second-class citizens when it comes to treatment for drug addiction and alcoholism."


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

As troubling as I find the new UVVA, the article does a disservice by lumping the UVVA in with South Carolina's feticide law. The UVVA contains an express provision exempting the pregnant woman from prosecution under the act (unlike, it sounds, S. Carolina's law).

South Carolina is nothing short of barbaric in terms of how it uses its child abuse and feticide laws in order to prosecute and jail women (largely African Americans) who've used drugs during their pregnancies. It hearkens back to post-Reconstruction practices, IMO.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I agree, Marlena.

But.............we all know how laws can be written one way yet interpreted another. Hopefully there will be many sharp atty's around to help with the interpretation.............


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Under the law, why isn't it illegal to refuse to provide treatment for these women? Are people other than pregnant women being charged with fetal injury, or only the mothers? Would a doctor be charged with fetal injury if he wanted to do an elective induction at 38 weeks? What if he told the mother that she must not gain more than 15 lbs?


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

I'm sure that South Carolina's child abuse laws are used for other purposes besides incarcerating women who just gave birth and whose newborn babies tested positive for, say, cocaine. But the fact that they're also being used for the latter purpose is sad, legally distressing and problematic, and, IMO, barbaric.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

It is barbaric on so many levels. I hate my F'ing state with a passion. Wish I could get out of it. We also have the highest % of domestic violence and women being murdered. Not a good state for women or children.
This statement is just chilling:

Quote:

Under South Carolina's version of the law, one local prosecutor warns that: "Even if a legal substance is used, if we can determine you are medically responsible for a child's demise, we will file charges." The pregnant woman who "allows" herself to be battered, and the woman who misses prenatal care appointments are both now vulnerable to prosecution for murder should something go wrong in the pregnancy


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

The pregnant woman who "allows" herself to be battered
Some people have gotten past blaming the victim, but apparently not all...

So would only the woman be charged with a crime? What about the man? Or will they say the woman "made" him batter her?


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Why do you defend women who take illegal drugs that harm babies? Does that baby have so little value? What would you say to a mother who gave her toddler crack?


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Laura, do you know anyone who has been addicted to drugs? It is a disease. I think these women should be helped with their addiction so it doesn't harm the baby. These laws aren't helping babies or women. Do you only care about unborn babies?
I think you just miss the mark completely.


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

That's right. It's true that everyone who has a drinking or drug problem should stop immediately if they become pregnant (or could possibly impregnate someone else, for that matter, given the defects that can be caused by such addictions on the father's side). Heck, why not stop there? Why not say that anyone and everyone with a drug or alcohol addiction, or who's overweight, or who watches too much tv, or who doesn't exercise even though they technically have at least 20 minutes per day in which to do so, or any other such issue relating to moderation and temperance should immediately cease their unhealthy behaviors?

Obviously, it's not as simple as that.

Changing such behaviors ranges from the somewhat difficult to the nearly impossible. With respect to drug and alcohol addiction, you're talking about altering one's biochemical processes in terribly unpleasant ways, at best.

Throwing the mother in jail isn't a particularly good deterrent. If there are any studies out there showing that a smaller percentage of babies born in S. Carolina test positive for drugs or alcohol at birth than elsewhere in the nation, please let us know.

So what's the point then? If you're not helping babies and/or mothers, then you're just doing it for penal value. What's the point of punishing these people? Will their children become healthier and happier because their mother is being punished? Who benefits? Is God happier? Is the state better off? How? What's the point?


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Why do you defend women who take illegal drugs that harm babies? Does that baby have so little value? What would you say to a mother who gave her toddler crack?
I don't know if that was for me, but it was right after my post.

I think drug use - including alcohol and cigarettes - during pregnancy is sick and wrong and I have very little respect for mothers who use while pregnant. But it doesn't make any sense to refuse to provide treatment for them. Jail does not stop drug use. It doesn't even stop for all inmates for the duration of their sentence - most people I know who have been to jail for drug-related crimes managed to use drugs in jail! Appropriate treatment has a better chance of helping someone.

And, of course, the mother can't be dropped once her child is born. You can't care for a fetus without caring for the woman, and it makes no sense to care for fetuses and then stop caring for them after they are born.

And I don't agree with a law that punishes only women and not other people who harm fetuses. The leading cause of death for pregnant women is domestic violence. One of the leading causes of death for everyone is doctors and hospitals. So the people most dangerous to fetuses are men and doctors, but they are not being punished.


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## sleeping queen (Nov 10, 2003)

Greaseball, nothing was directed at you. Sorry if it came out that way.

Sheacoby, I can think of three off the top of my head in my own family. One being my mother. This is a disease of choice you can't put it on the same level as cancer or diabetes. Everyday you wake up you make the choice to continue. Unless you live in a cave, you know the dangers when you make that choice the first time you partake. Depending on the drug of choice and how much and how often will determine the effects of the child. Some children bear a lifetime of problems because of another persons abuse.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

There are many reasons why someone makes that first decision to do a drug too. Not everyone lives in a perfect enviroment. I think it is pretty irrelevant if someone made a choice ten years in the past to start doing drugs. What matters is they are an addict today. Being addicted to drugs does change the chemistry of ones body. It is no longer just a choice when you are addicted.
With many addcitive drugs detoxing is very dangerous as well.
I think it is awful to do drugs while pregnant, don't condone it in the least. However I am aware enough to know that addiction is a really heavy thing and being idealistic about it won't help anyone.


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## the sunshine (Jul 31, 2003)

sleeping queen, have you never made a poor decision in your life?


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

In treatment programs, people are told "You are not responsible for your disease, but you are responsible for your recovery and for repairing any damage you have done as a result of your using."

So, although I'm not responsible for the fact that when I use drugs, I can't control my use, I am responsible for making a choice not to use every day and for making amends to the people I have hurt as a result of my past actions.

I don't think anyone is advocating for letting these women off the hook just because they have a problem. I think it's about what will most effectively treat that problem and benefit everyone, and that is not usually jail.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

How about getting them into a treatment program while they're pregnant? Helping them then?

Realistically, we don't even get all women the pre-natal care they need, let alone the abuse programs...................

I'd much rather have 50¢ of every dollar I pay in taxes go to social programs than building bombs.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

No, people don't get the help they need. Often they didn't even want to be pregnant but they were denied contraception.

There is this idea that all the poor people can just go get Medicaid which will pay for contraception, drug treatment, prenatal care, and everything else, but it's not always the case. Often they will decide that you're not poor enough (I've been told that when I was homeless!) or will give you coverage that is very limited and won't pay for anything you really need.

Around here you can't even get WIC if you're homeless unless you can prove you have a nutritional problem. So the homeless people starve themselves so they can be "low iron" and then get WIC.

Treatment programs have huge waiting lists and will often keep a woman for only 28 days. One doesn't overcome a lifetime of addiction in a month. People really need something better.

I agree with spending the majority of our tax dollars on stuff that helps people. Just enclose a letter with your form stating exactly what your money is to be spent on.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

I wish it were all so black and white. I wish it was so simple as choosing to stop and being done with it. I wish....

I wish a lot of things, including one of my best friends not being addicted to crack cocaine. I also wish he hadn't felt so helpless that he killed himself. I also wish he had had adequate treatment.

Prison doesn't help. He went to jail.

The army doesn't help - he did that too.

Being told to stop doesn't help - we all told him that.

And unless you can afford a really damn good treatment center, the piss poor ones don't help.

Drug treatment in this country is joke.

Putting a woman in prison because she has an addiction problem is so never going to help anyone out. Her, the baby, the family - no one will benefit from that.


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

I am lucky that I live in a area that has Toby's house! It is for homeless women and their children and they give them guidence through their entire pregnancy, including I was told drug treatment.

So, on a positive note, their are places and organizations that do help women in any kind of crisis who want to carry their child to term.

I posted this Tom Paine article in the other thread on kissing the president-it is a wonderful article to be put out to the world!! Thanks Els


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

AdinaL-thanks for your perspective and I am sorry about your best friend


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## abcessabyss (Feb 14, 2006)

i recently found out im prego, and i need all the info i can get about safely detoxing from pain pills while pregnant, i want to do this in the privacy of my own home...theres no excuse for using while youre pregnant, and im trying to gather info on cleaning up for this baby....ive looked online and i cant find anything.....please msg me privately with any helpful info you can give......i need support from people who've been through this....thank you


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

if forced treatment becomes real then it will just be a matter of time until pregnant women will be locked up to "protect the unborn."

excuse me while I start to rant...


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## Danelle78 (Dec 29, 2005)

Not sure if this helps, but it's another website with people who have also weened themselves off pain meds. Not sure how different it would be for you since you are preggers.

http://www.medhelp.org/perl6/addicti...es/31579a.html


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## nikisager (Oct 25, 2005)

hmmm, so is drug testing something they do on all newborns? Is it done in all states? I never knew someone could give an infant a blood test without consent from parent? Just wondering, had never heard it before. I know in NC they used to be allowed to come into your home and drug test the parent without a court order, knew a woman who lost 6 of her kids for having pot in her blood when a case worker showed up with A cup to pee in and at that time there was nothing she could do, that law has changed now and testing has to be court ordered and done at a medical center for such.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Use of meconium samples for drug testing in newborns - Tips from Other Journals

Quote:

Strategies to improve the detection and treatment of substance abuse during pregnancy are the focus of growing interest to those involved in perinatal care. *Because maternal reporting of substance abuse is often unreliable,* laboratory tests have been used for documentation of substance abuse.
Translation: even if you are a high class broad with gazillion dollars, you're assumed to be a drug user in pregnancy because all pregnant women lie about what they use. Even prescription drugs can come up as illegal drugs. Sesame and Poppy seads can register as drugs for up to 48 hrs after ingesting.







: Heaven forbid you use a prescription that comes up as illegal in tests!

Quote:

The authors believe that meconium is easier to collect than urine and that meconium testing could be easily incorporated into *routine laboratory drug screening procedures.*
Translation: hey, shit's a waste product. Let's test that on all babies born without consent!

Warning: do not withhold consent. Doing so proves to them (hos that you are a drug user and therefore may get CPS involved to force the drug test and any subsequent "treatment."

More later. I just had a friend show up.


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## newbad (Jun 16, 2005)

FYI

Practices and policies regarding drug use during pregnancy vary from county to county and hospital to hospital.

At the hospital that I work at if you report a drug history to your HCP, they will most likely get a urine sample (nurse/HCP discretion, which is usually based on the patient's behavior). They send the sample to an in-house lab and also an out-of-house lab. If the in-house lab sample tests postive, they will place a "wee-bag" on the newborn and obtain a sample of the infants urine. If the mother tests positive and the newborn negative, nothing is done. If the newborn tests positive, DHS is called. DHS generally does little regarding THC.

I work in an area that has a high percentage of meth users, therefore if someone comes to the hospital in pre-term labor (especially if they have a "shady" prenatal history, not referring to seeing a homebirth midwife) they will be tested. Pre-term labor is a side-effect of meth, cocaine, and crack.

Anyhow, just a FYI from an insider.


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## somanythings (Jul 9, 2005)

I am in Oregon and newborns of lower-income (welfare) mothers are often drug tested without mother's knowledge or consent when they are taken out of the room for their bath, pku test, etc. I was told by a nurse at Salem hospital. It is assumed that if you are a single, young (teen) mother on welfare, that you have been or are using drugs. Nevermind the substances that test as illegal drugs in the system (ie poppy seeds - there are many more). What a disservice we are doing to pregnant women and babies born and unborn.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Ugh. Googling "forced drug testing newborns" brought me up to a page that essentially explains that even if the mom and babe both test negative for drugs, she was still a drug user! _"Negative screen means that not enough drug was present to exceed lab cut-offs. You may have substance abusing moms with negative urine tests on themselves or their babies!"_ *shudder*

What happened to a nurse during mandatory drug testing - She was fired! She and her husband spent many man hours exhonerating her. Even cleared of "drug use" (ie: poppy seeds) she was still guilty in the eyes of the hospital.

There's also tons of forced testing of newborns for HIV. Aclu's examples.

Health Canada and Identification of Fetal Drug Exposure (I'm pretty sure they tested DS when I was in the hospital because of the months of "pre-term" labour I had and that I didn't have "proper prenatal care" in sOB's opinion)

Advocates for Pregnant Women has a bunch of quotes about what happens when drug testing is mandatory.

I could find more, but the kids are trying to destroy my knitting...


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