# very morbid birth question--WARNING-- morbid / torture / sensitive



## moodymaximus (Nov 13, 2007)

sorry, but i've wanting to ask someone for years. as a teenager i read about a woman whose labour started while on a train to a nazi concentration camp. (i'm sure she wasn't the only one














it was said that because she couldn't even spread her legs enough for the baby to come out her uterus / abdomen (?) raptured. is this what would happen?


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## Individuation (Jul 24, 2006)

Goodness. That's dreadful

Yes, that would probably happen. Or something similar. I doubt she had a quick and wonderful autopsy performed so that they knew for sure it was a ruptured uterus and not, for instance, a broken pelvis and a placental hemorrhage. Or something.

I am the only person who will answer this question, I'm sure. It's that dark.


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## moodymaximus (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:



Quote:


Originally Posted by *Individuation* 
Goodness. That's dreadful

Yes, that would probably happen. Or something similar. I doubt she had a quick and wonderful autopsy performed so that they knew for sure it was a ruptured uterus and not, for instance, a broken pelvis and a placental hemorrhage. Or something.

thanks for answering. i don't know why i've been obsessed with it for so long.









Quote:

I am the only person who will answer this question, I'm sure. It's that dark.

lots of views, within minutes, though







i think putting TMI or something similar in your thread is like announcing an accident on the highway--people slow down to watch...

but i figured if i don't ask here, where else?


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## sun-shine01 (Aug 9, 2002)

My grandmother lost a baby in 1943/44. It was her 3rd pregnancy and her 1st hospital birth. She said she is certain that the baby died because the nurses held her legs together and would not let her push or deliver because the doctor had not arrived at the hospital. When the doctor arrived he delivered a stillborn baby. Her uterus did not rupture and she later had two more babies.

So sad.


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## moodymaximus (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sun-shine01* 
My grandmother lost a baby in 1943/44. It was her 3rd pregnancy and her 1st hospital birth. She said she is certain that the baby died because the nurses held her legs together and would not let her push or deliver because the doctor had not arrived at the hospital. When the doctor arrived he delivered a stillborn baby. Her uterus did not rupture and she later had two more babies.

So sad.

oh, how horrible.









i also read that there were nazi "experiments" like this. shudder.


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## BirthFree (Nov 2, 2005)




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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

I, too, have heard about the experiments like this.

Honestly, I think it would be likely that the baby would still descend into the birth canal, all the way to the introitus, and then perhaps push a little past into the fleshy part of the thigh. Or, the mama could lean over a bit and she could (reasonably) deliver the baby backwards.

It's a horrible to imagine a woman birthing like this.


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## jakesask (Jul 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Honestly, I think it would be likely that the baby would still descend into the birth canal, all the way to the introitus, and then perhaps push a little past into the fleshy part of the thigh.









:


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## Nannysbaby (Apr 12, 2007)

This post caught my attention because I have read extensively about the horrors of the Nazi regime and something came to mind...

Many of the Nazi "experiments" were performed on pregnant women...binding her legs together during labor to see what would happen...essentially blocking the baby's way out...and killing both mother and child...torture.


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## jenni22 (Oct 30, 2006)

Well I have never heard of this, so all I have to say is how unbelieveable and AWEFUL!!!!!!


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## eloise24 (Nov 17, 2005)

So sad


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sun-shine01* 
My grandmother lost a baby in 1943/44. It was her 3rd pregnancy and her 1st hospital birth. She said she is certain that the baby died because the nurses held her legs together and would not let her push or deliver because the doctor had not arrived at the hospital. When the doctor arrived he delivered a stillborn baby. Her uterus did not rupture and she later had two more babies.


Quote:

i also read that there were nazi "experiments" like this. shudder.
That was common practice the world around in the 1940s and 1950s. I went to school with a couple of people who were a little slow because of oxygen deprivation at birth due to the mother's legs held together to wait for a tardy doctor. It was standard hospital policy. Ask your grandmothers.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

This is so sad.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Sad and disturbing.


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## queenjulie (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nannysbaby* 
Many of the Nazi "experiments" were performed on pregnant women...binding her legs together during labor to see what would happen...essentially blocking the baby's way out...and killing both mother and child...torture.

I actually met a woman who saw some of those experiments take place. She was a volunteer speaker at the LA Holocaust museum, and she had been a concentration camp prisoner. The barracks she lived in was overseen by Dr. Mengele, the doctor who performed most of the "experiments." She said he came to their dorm every morning to evaluation which women were still healthy enough to work, and which needed "treatment" at his medical facility. I can't even imagine living through it--I almost threw up just from listening to her story.


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## babycatcher01 (Nov 28, 2005)

I took care of a woman whos legs were tied togather because the doc wasnt around, she had a "still born" daughter, it was very hard on her. What I dont get is how can anyone with an education, let alone a doctor, even back then find that to be a good idea.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Two things I don't get is why would any sane doctor ignore the hypocratic oath and what sane human being could ever treat another human being in such a disgustingly disturbing manner.

How, I just can't wrap my mind around it...just how...

Sheal


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

this same thing happened to my grandmothers sister (nurse held her legs together and baby was stillborn) it makes me so sad and angry every time i think of it because its just so..WRONG! she did go on to have 3 more children, so im assuming that she didn't have any lasting effects, physically, anyways.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
That was common practice the world around in the 1940s and 1950s. I went to school with a couple of people who were a little slow because of oxygen deprivation at birth due to the mother's legs held together to wait for a tardy doctor. It was standard hospital policy. Ask your grandmothers.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *babycatcher01* 
I took care of a woman whos legs were tied togather because the doc wasnt around, she had a "still born" daughter, it was very hard on her. What I dont get is how can anyone with an education, let alone a doctor, even back then find that to be a good idea.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFern* 
this same thing happened to my grandmothers sister (nurse held her legs together and baby was stillborn) it makes me so sad and angry every time i think of it because its just so..WRONG! she did go on to have 3 more children, so im assuming that she didn't have any lasting effects, physically, anyways.































Unreal. Such stupidity and cruelty.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I wasn't "allowed" to push when I was in labor with ds, and that was only eight years ago







Seriously. My OB was at a dr. appt with one of her children and was a bit behind getting to the hospital. The nurses YELLED at me that I couldn't push. I'd previously gotten the whole "your baby could die" routine. It *never* occured to me at the time that I could and SHOULD have done what my body needed to do (and I'm a fairly intelligent person). I was flat-out terrified. Trying to withhold the pushing urge was one of the most horrible things I've ever experienced.


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## barefootpoetry (Jul 19, 2007)

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Originally Posted by *georgia* 
I wasn't "allowed" to push when I was in labor with ds, and that was only eight years ago







Seriously. My OB was at a dr. appt with one of her children and was a bit behind getting to the hospital. The nurses YELLED at me that I couldn't push. I'd previously gotten the whole "your baby could die" routine. It *never* occured to me at the time that I could and SHOULD have done what my body needed to do (and I'm a fairly intelligent person). I was flat-out terrified. Trying to withhold the pushing urge was one of the most horrible things I've ever experienced.


I hear about THIS being done to women all the time. It's so ridiculous. What difference does it make if the doc is there - just tell a nurse to get her rear in gear and catch that baby, or DIY! The baby isn't going to explode if he doesn't land in the doctor's hands.







:

We think we've come so far as far as birth technology goes, and this thread just proves that we are still in the Dark Ages.


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## tpott4 (Nov 8, 2007)

so sad


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
That was common practice the world around in the 1940s and 1950s. I went to school with a couple of people who were a little slow because of oxygen deprivation at birth due to the mother's legs held together to wait for a tardy doctor. It was standard hospital policy. Ask your grandmothers.


You're right, applejuice...we all ought to ask our grandmothers (while we still can.)

This might have happened to my grandmother's second baby (but my grandmother has passed away; I can't ask her!) Once, years ago, my aunt mentioned a birth scenario like that for her older sister, who is 'slow', aka, retarded but not in any 'classic' way....I always wondered about why my _aunt's_ abilities and disabilities are so unlike any other differently-mentally abled (and of course younger) folks I've known.


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## herwitsend (Nov 10, 2005)

Your grandmothers probably won't remember... I know mine doesn't. She had scopolomine (commonly used for birth in the first half of the century- it is an amnesic). It made women so crazy, wild and out of control that they were commonly tied down on their backs. From what I have read, holding legs together while waiting for docs was very common! My g'ma says she didn't wake up for 3 days after giving birth!


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## moodymaximus (Nov 13, 2007)

:

this is horrifying...and at peace times as well...can you imagine being violated this way? and the idea that it was "normal" and "progress"







:


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

A friend of mine just told me the other day that her birthday is a day late... because her mom went into labor, was just about crowning, and because the hospital was understaffed, they shot her with a drug to STOP contractions. Then they induced her the next day when they had a full shift.

She seems to have come out of it all right, but wow... how awful is that? And this was in the mid-70s! Not even that long ago.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Horrifying









Back in 1984 the nurse was literally holding my brother in because the doctor hadn't arrived yet and screaming at my mom not to push. Thank God he was okay


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

In 1998, the wife of my DH's friend was ready to push, and since the doctor wasn't there, the nurse held the baby's head in.

It still happens. Same outcome. Different approach.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
In 1998, the wife of my DH's friend was ready to push, and since the doctor wasn't there, the nurse held the baby's head in.

It still happens. Same outcome. Different approach.

They did this to my sister with her 2 yr old when he was born. They ended up bruising him because of it.

Sheal


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## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

I really don't get why a doctor has to be there to catch. Do the nurses/midwives get in trouble or are they not insured to catch or something?


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

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Originally Posted by *amitymama* 
I really don't get why a doctor has to be there to catch. Do the nurses/midwives get in trouble or are they not insured to catch or something?

It's my understanding that the doctor doesn't get paid if he's not in the room.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
It's my understanding that the doctor doesn't get paid if he's not in the room.

Really? Well that doc who wasn't in the room for my daughter must have been really ticked off because he missed the whole thing and a doc walked in off the hall to stitch me up with 3rd\4th degree tears the nurses allowed to happen.

Huh...I didn't know that.

Sheal


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## MPsSweetie (Jan 29, 2006)

Omg, how scary.
Asheby was born in the hospital, but delivered by James when the nurse walked out. When they nurse came back in she shoved James out of the way and grabbed Asheby off the bed. And my dr. was SO mad she was yelling at the nurse over the phone in my room. I always joked saying what would they have done, shove him back in, or hold his head in, I never thought it could have really happened. My body pushed him out without my concious (sp?) help. There is absolutely no way I could have stopped it.
James knows how to deliver a baby now, next time I'm staying home. This post clinches it.


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## MPsSweetie (Jan 29, 2006)

Oh, and they wouldn't let us sign that James delivered him either. Even though my dr. didn't get there until ten minutes after.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia* 
Trying to withhold the pushing urge was one of the most horrible things I've ever experienced.

Totally. I just had my first baby last Wednesday, and for at least a half-hour I was withholding the urge because I was told I was only at 4 cm. We think the doc was wrong because I delivered about 45 minutes later, but trying to hold that back was hands down the most excruciating thing I've ever experienced. I can't even imagine having my legs held together or having the baby forcibly held in. That's just disgusting and wrong on so many levels.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
It's my understanding that the doctor doesn't get paid if he's not in the room.

Hmmm... When I had a CNM-assisted hospital birth, a doctor came and stood in my room. I wonder if he got paid for that. I have no idea who he was.


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## katsam (Mar 3, 2005)

I had to deliver in the hospital for my recent birth, and the Dr. didn't make it. The nurse caught the baby, although she was crazy nervous. My midwife was coaching. The Dr. arrived just after, and I still got a bill, no stitches or anything!


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## adamsfam07 (Sep 9, 2006)

My last birth the nurses kept telling me to wait, to stop pushing because the dr. wasn't there yet. I tried as hard as I could to not push, but seriously when the baby is coming, there's no way to prevent that. I can't even imagine someone keeping the baby in or keeping a laboring woman's legs together..that's just insane.


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