# Two year old + car seat



## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

So, I have to buy a new seat for my dd who just turned two on December 22nd. I'm giving the Radian 65 I currently have to her dad (he doesn't have a seat for her, it's an EOW situation)...

What would you recommend? She's close to 37 lbs and is sitting forward facing.

Thanks for any tips!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

If she just turned two I would move her back to RF. I would get a 45lb radian to keep her rf as long as possible.

-Angela


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## butterfly_mommy (Oct 22, 2007)

I would recommend getting a Radian XTSL and turning her back rear facing (it has a 45lb rf limit). This is the seat I just got for my 33 lb 23 mon old.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

That would also be my recommendation. Two year olds are safest rear facing, substantially so, as their spines are no where near fused.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

the graco my ride is more affordable (150ish) and rf's to 40 lbs.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
the graco my ride is more affordable (150ish) and rf's to 40 lbs.

That's my go-to recommendation for kids that age, but this little one is already 37 pounds, which is pretty large for such a young toddler, so I think the best option would be the 80SL or the XTSL which rearface to 45 lbs.

Much better chance of staying rear facing for at least another year.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Not disagreeing with you, just another option. Especially since growth slows considerably during the 3rd year.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Possibly...if 37 pounds is her fully dressed and shod weight. If it's her birthday suit weight, she'll be near 40 pounds fully dressed anyways.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Lots of kids outgrow seats by height before weight. At 37 lbs, she might already be too long in the torso to safely RF in some seats that RF to 40 lbs. Be sure to keep that in mind when selecting a seat for her, if you want to keep her RFing.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Lots of kids outgrow seats by height before weight. At 37 lbs, she might already be too long in the torso to safely RF in some seats that RF to 40 lbs. Be sure to keep that in mind when selecting a seat for her, if you want to keep her RFing.

She is too tall.







Hence the forward facing - she's an ENORMOUS kid.

I was thinking of the Frontier - does anyone have that seat??


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

She is too tall to RF in a Radian -- her head is within 1" of the shell? That is indeed a big kid!

Oops, hit enter too soon. If she has truly outgrown a RFing Radian by height at just-turned-two, the only seat I would recommend is a Britax Regent.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceinwen* 
She is too tall.







Hence the forward facing - she's an ENORMOUS kid.

I was thinking of the Frontier - does anyone have that seat??

Can you explain how she's too tall? It's pretty unlikely, unless she's 45-46" or more.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm in Canada, so we don't have the Regent (at least I don't think so!) My older dd who will be seven next month is in the Olli Clek backless booster, but she's a gigantic kid too. It was the car seat tech at the local health unit who recommended we turn my younger dd forward facing once she was two - something about her torso height? She really is a tall girl. Plus we have serious, ongoing reflux issues, so I'm not sad at all to have her sitting up straight. That Radian is seriously tilted when it's rearfacing!


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceinwen* 
I'm in Canada, so we don't have the Regent (at least I don't think so!) My older dd who will be seven next month is in the Olli Clek backless booster, but she's a gigantic kid too. It was the car seat tech at the local health unit who recommended we turn my younger dd forward facing once she was two - something about her torso height? She really is a tall girl. Plus we have serious, ongoing reflux issues, so I'm not sad at all to have her sitting up straight. That Radian is seriously tilted when it's rearfacing!


Sounds like the people at the 'local health unit' didn't know what they were talking about, because it's not recommended that a two year old be forward facing.

Can you tell us your child's height?


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Just went and measured/weighed her. She's about 34 inches tall and actually 38 lbs stark naked - although she just had lunch







. I'm not even sure where that leaves me with car seat options now... I was looking at the newish Marathon CS (if I can get it here) or the Frontier - because it goes to a booster seat.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Ok, she's no where NEAR too tall to rear face.

At her height, she has more than enough room in a Radian to rear face.

My original recommendation stands: buy the Sunshine Kids Radian80SL or XTSL and keep her rear facing.

A forward facing seat is not appropriate at this juncture.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

Is the Graco Nautilus available in CN and would it go to 65lbs there? I also have huge kids which people seem to have a hard time understanding when it comes to car seat issues







With the Nautilus we were able to get my just turned 4 year old to 4 in a harnessed seat. It also converts to a really nice booster, he is using it as such now and I have been very pleased. The high back booster goes to at least an inch higher than the turbo booster dd had when I compared them.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *s_kristina* 
Is the Graco Nautilus available in CN and would it go to 65lbs there? I also have huge kids which people seem to have a hard time understanding when it comes to car seat issues







With the Nautilus we were able to get my just turned 4 year old to 4 in a harnessed seat. It also converts to a really nice booster, he is using it as such now and I have been very pleased. The high back booster goes to at least an inch higher than the turbo booster dd had when I compared them.


I really hope you weren't rolling your eyes at me. The OP's child is larger for a two year old, but she is by no means 'huge', nor is she anywhere NEAR too big to rear face.

A Nautilus is a nice seat, but it is not an appropriate choice for a just turned two year old.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Thanks for the advice and recs!

I'm absolutely not going to turn her rear facing again, I definitely feel that we've reached a good age for forward facing.

I'm the only one I know locally who even waited past thirteen months to turn around.

From advice on here and another forum, I knew it was a good idea to wait until two, but she loves being forward facing and I'm happy not worrying about her choking while being so reclined anymore.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Putting your child forward facing at this juncture is not recommended. Her neck is not yet fused and her spine is in danger in both front and side impacts.

It is by no means the best decision to forward face her. Safety wise, it's not even a very good decision.

However, if you insist that she must be forward facing, you must ALWAYS use a top tether anchor. If you do not have those in your vehicle, she cannot be forward facing.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I'd look into a graco nautilus - its the seat I was planning on getting for DS1 before I turned him back around several months ago.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm driving a 2006 Dodge Caravan, so I'm going to bring it to the next OPP seat installation drive and see if they can show me how to make sure it's installed correctly. I'm definitely going to look into the Graco Nautilus, I've had a couple of recs for that now...

As an emerg/trauma nurse, I definitely appreciate the risk factor - we see MVC trauma on almost a daily basis. I appreciate the concern. (Sincerely, not in a snarky way - I learn a lot on the safety board!)

However, I am curious about your assertion re: 'the neck is not fused yet'. I was under the impression that the neck does not 'fuse' - it's the sacrum and coccyx that fuses between birth and approximately ages 20 - 30? I hate being misinformed i.e. basic physiology, especially about things I should know as a nurse!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I think the correct term is "ossify", not fuse.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

That's two totally different things then - ossify is to harden, while fuse is to, well, unite?

And in either case, all bones continue to ossify, not only the vertebral bones - making the entire statement 'the neck bones haven't fused yet' a completely moot point.

Thank you for the tip re: top anchoring, I'll definitely make sure that's all in order.


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## s_kristina (Aug 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
I really hope you weren't rolling your eyes at me. The OP's child is larger for a two year old, but she is by no means 'huge', nor is she anywhere NEAR too big to rear face.

A Nautilus is a nice seat, but it is not an appropriate choice for a just turned two year old.

Nope not rolling my eyes at you. Just the vast number of people that have made statements on what all children should fit in to at a certain age when it is impossible to say all children will be size X at any age. All children are different. I've got a 20 month old that is 34" and 24lbs who I personally think is tiny, but other people think he is really tall for his age.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceinwen* 
That's two totally different things then - ossify is to harden, while fuse is to, well, unite?

And in either case, all bones continue to ossify, not only the vertebral bones - making the entire statement 'the neck bones haven't fused yet' a completely moot point.

Thank you for the tip re: top anchoring, I'll definitely make sure that's all in order.

Just to point out that not only is it much safer to top tether while FF'ing, you are required to top tether by law in Canada.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceinwen* 
I'm driving a 2006 Dodge Caravan, so I'm going to bring it to the next OPP seat installation drive and see if they can show me how to make sure it's installed correctly. I'm definitely going to look into the Graco Nautilus, I've had a couple of recs for that now...

As an emerg/trauma nurse, I definitely appreciate the risk factor - we see MVC trauma on almost a daily basis. I appreciate the concern. (Sincerely, not in a snarky way - I learn a lot on the safety board!)

*However, I am curious about your assertion re: 'the neck is not fused yet'. I was under the impression that the neck does not 'fuse' - i*t's the sacrum and coccyx that fuses between birth and approximately ages 20 - 30? I hate being misinformed i.e. basic physiology, especially about things I should know as a nurse!










You are correct that I mispoke. I was trying to describe what happens as the spine ossifies.

For a neck that has not sufficiently ossified (this level of ossificiation usually occurs around four years), the vertabrae and soft tissues can stretch up to two inches easily in a significant front impact crash. Unfortunately, the spinal cord can only stretch about 1/8" of an inch before it's at risk for tearing. Not until the bones have ossified more is the column not quite so "stretchy", thereby significantly reducing the risk of internal decapitation. At barely two years old, your child is simply not safe forward facing.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Sorry, I do have to agree with Maedze. My nephew is 35" (so taller than your DD) with a tall torso and has tons of room in the Radian.

There is a post here in this thread that shows the difference between a 1yo's spine and a 6yo's. The process doesn't usually start until around 4, so a 2yo is still very vulnerable FF'ing.
http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=109821


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceinwen* 
I'm in Canada, so we don't have the Regent (at least I don't think so!) My older dd who will be seven next month is in the Olli Clek backless booster, but she's a gigantic kid too. It was the car seat tech at the local health unit who recommended we turn my younger dd forward facing once she was two - something about her torso height? She really is a tall girl. Plus we have serious, ongoing reflux issues, so I'm not sad at all to have her *sitting up straight*. That Radian is seriously tilted when it's rearfacing!

For those who know a lot about rear-facing seats---- which ones would sit most upright rear-facing? Can any sit as upright as a forward facing seat?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Probably not as upright as a forward-facing seat. There's a lot of variation based on the slope of the vehicle seat, but in general, Dorel seats tend to install very upright.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2* 
For those who know a lot about rear-facing seats---- which ones would sit most upright rear-facing? Can any sit as upright as a forward facing seat?

If I'm going to look at returning her rear-facing, I'll go and try a bunch of seats out and try to simulate how they would fit her (recline wise). The Radian has an awful slope rear-facing, even with all the tricks I picked up online.

Many thanks to everyone for all the information!


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

As someone who suffers from GERD and esophageal errosions on a regular basis, I can completely understand your desire to minimize your DD's reflux episodes. 2 of my kids have severe diagnosed GERD, as well, and it breaks my heart when they reflux. That said, I have to say that I chose to keep my DS RF until 3, despite the reflux. As painful as GERD is, it just doesn't compare to internal decapitation (which I know you know, as a trauma nurse







)

For me, personally, if my child were killed or permanantly paralyzed due to being FF at 2, I could never forgive myself for letting it happen just to minimize their reflux. But everyone has to make that call for themselves and their kids.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2* 
For those who know a lot about rear-facing seats---- which ones would sit most upright rear-facing? Can any sit as upright as a forward facing seat?


Rear facing seats can sit as upright as 30 degrees, which is actually VERY upright. (The First Years True Fit may go up to 35 degrees).

Almost all rear facing convertibles can be easily forced upright, (Except the Sunshine Kids Radians which are on a little CRS planet of their own, and are probably in need of therapy)


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Almost all rear facing convertibles can be easily forced upright, (Except the Sunshine Kids Radians which are on a little CRS planet of their own, and are probably in need of therapy)

Thank you for the added levity







And KayleeZoo - I appreciate the commiseration, I had hoped things would be 100% by age two, but we're still fighting the battle.









Off to continue shopping for seats!


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## MayLibertySprout (Jul 17, 2007)




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