# school supplies and the crazy lady down the street



## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

okay, so...my kids get all of an hour after school to themselves, and they have a habit of dropping their binders on the front porch, yelling hi, and heading across the street to play football. i can literally see them out my window...

school just started this week, and caitlyn has all new nice school supplies. an expensive binder with all the cute little notebooks, folders, separators, tools, pens, pencils, a planner...one of the neighbor kids, who has said he has NO supplies...took it! as i went running after, he dropped the book covers on the ground...and they are the strange ones that my daughter had.

gah, so...caitlyn and jordan, and the three neighbor kids that witnessed the event yesterday...went down to this kid's house today to try and get her stuff back. her homework was in there, and was past due. i have extra supplies...and i'm willing to give them to this child if he has nothing, but don't STEAL my baby's stuff!

anyhow, upon getting there...the mother started screaming and yelling, throwing racial slurs at my girls' friends...and saying she was going to beat them all with a switch. she tapped my nine-year-old on the head repeatedly to make her point (it didn't hurt her, just scared her...six foot switch!)...said she wasn't afraid of jail...and that we weren't getting a THING from her kid!

this woman cursed out my babies, told my girls that they could follow her son to his class tomorrow if they felt like it...but if it's in her home, they weren't getting a thing. i don't exactly have much in this world...and my caitlyn bought all her supplies HERSELF!

i told my kids to forget the stuff. that if they are so hard up they have to steal from kids...then maybe they need it more than we do. we DO have extra...just not the cute stuff. i explained to the neighbor kids, that were angry that my girls didn't yell back, that we don't become like these people. i tried to get them to understand that maybe this woman was defensive because of the fact that she CAN'T afford the stuff...and that being defensive might have set her off a bit.

i've forbade my girls from going down that direction...but my girl is VERY upset at the loss of stuff that SHE earned...

should i handle this differently? should i go to the landlord and explain? should i try harder to replace the lost stuff?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Personally, I would call the police. What is the landlord going to do? You saw this kid steal the stuff off your front porch. His mother abused your children. Let the police deal with it.

If you don't wish to involve the police then personally I would replace the stuff for my daughter. I would also let this be a lesson on putting your things away if they are important to you. Also contact the teacher about the stolen homework. This way your daughter wont have it marked late. You never know, the school might be able to do something about the lost things as well.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Call the police and file a complaint...she assaulted your child and her kid stole from you.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

she didn't actually HURT my babe...just scared the heck out of her.

i've written to the school already, explaining. i'll buy her a new binder...but she might have to wait a bit on the rest.

my dilemma is that the kid is only in third grade...and he has NO supplies. so maybe he needs them more than we do? and what happens to him? does he...get charged? does he...have to deal with an even MEANER mama?


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## merrick (Dec 8, 2003)

I am beyond words. I would be so angry. I just can't believe some people. Your poor baby. I think I would call the police as well.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I wouldn't call the police. If she was threatening to switch your kids, what will happen to the boy when the police show up questioning about something her son did? I feel badly for everyone involved, except the mother.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I wouldn't call the police. If she was threatening to switch your kids, what will happen to the boy when the police show up questioning about something her son did? I feel badly for everyone involved, except the mother.

that's EXACTLY what i'm thinking. if she'll act like that in PUBLIC, on the street...where everyone can see...what the heck will she do in the privacy of her own home?


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

i'm at a total loss for words!







: have you considered going to the mother yourself & asking her what the heck is up?


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobica* 
i'm at a total loss for words!







: have you considered going to the mother yourself & asking her what the heck is up?

yeah, that was my first instinct...and i'm still considering it.

i've spoken with her before, and she's not quite all there...her husband was furious that my daughters refused to get in his truck when he offered them a ride to the bus stop. i, of course...was proud of my babies, and pissed that he offered.

i thought about bringing my extra notebooks and such over and offering them...but that will probably make it worse. she had my kids and five others freaking out...swearing and yelling and talking about how she wasn't afraid to go to jail and such.

i've taught my kids to always walk away from a confrontation...that nothing is so important for us to harm another. i've taught them all some martial arts and self-defense, in case of emergency...but so far, they've been really good about just walking off.

i think this woman is unstable enough that to even go over there will force a confrontation...i'm registered here as a black-belt, and i definitely don't need anything messing with my certification.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

What? Call the police, and call them now. Your daughter needs her school supplies back. To not try to get them back would be to teach your kids that when people do wrong, they get away with it. If need be, you can get a protection order against the woman, and if she behaves irrationally when the police come, that's all the more evidence you have in your favor.


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

Assault doesn't have to hurt - she intended to intimidate your daughter so there would be no retaliation. You need to call the police and tell them both about the theft that you witnessed and that the neighbor physically threatened your DD.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Are you sure this kid has no supplies or was that his excuse?

That woman was way out of line & I would file a complaint with the police. It does not matter if your dd was not hurt, she used a 6 foot branch to repeatedly tap your dd's hand. She is bullying not only your kids but the neighbor's kids. She has allowed her son to steal them. THe 3rd grader would not go to jail or anything, she would because he's a minor(not that the police would put her in jail for this, she'd most likely just get a warning & they'd ask that she return the stuff or pay for it).

The mother started screaming & yelling when the kids went over there. I would go over there & get the supplies back. You need to stand up for your kids over this one, why are you letting her & her son get away with theft.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Synthea™* 
Assault doesn't have to hurt - she intended to intimidate your daughter so there would be no retaliation. You need to call the police and tell them both about the theft that you witnessed and that the neighbor physically threatened your DD.









:

Although I do understand about not wanting her DS to get hurt








I hope this can be resolved soon, your poor DD!


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
Are you sure this kid has no supplies or was that his excuse?

That woman was way out of line & I would file a complaint with the police. It does not matter if your dd was not hurt, she used a 6 foot branch to repeatedly tap your dd's hand. She is bullying not only your kids but the neighbor's kids. She has allowed her son to steal them. THe 3rd grader would not go to jail or anything, she would because he's a minor(not that the police would put her in jail for this, she'd most likely just get a warning & they'd ask that she return the stuff or pay for it).

The mother started screaming & yelling when the kids went over there. I would go over there & get the supplies back. You need to stand up for your kids over this one, why are you letting her & her son get away with theft.

i'm positive that her son doesn't have anything yet...my nine-year-old goes to school with him, and they ride the bus together. he said his mother was working on it; he'd have stuff soon.

when my children and i are faced with an issue, we try and think through every avenue and get to the REASONS behind the actions. i don't "re-act", i "act". if i followed my first instinct, i would have ran over there and demanded my kid's stuff back...which would have been completely pointless, as i have absolutely no proof it was them.

i stood on the porch with all these children and asked them "why?", coming up with a few reasons that might have caused her to act as such. we figure she's VERY defensive...and yes, touched. calling the police (which i still MIGHT do) may very well be counter-productive, as 1)she's still my neighbor, 2) there's not a single mark on my daughter, and 3)there's NO proof. there's not a way in the world that they would give out a warrant to search her place over school supplies.

my children stood up for themselves admirably...they didn't just "get" away with this. we didn't just ignore the situation...but if the woman won't admit they HAVE it, there's no way i'll get it back. she invited for my daughter to follow her son to class today and check...and that's what she intends to do.

and what happens after the police leave, and i'm still empty-handed? we still won't have the stuff...and HER kid will take the fall-out, or at least...that's what i'm worried about. MY children have all taken martial arts since they could walk. physically, i'm not worried about having her down the street.

my daughter offered to get together the remainder of their supplies and go down the street and give it to them...but i honestly think that would make it worse. and we're not talking a NORMAL woman...this woman has something wrong with her. she's not rational. i have, however, seen her in public behaving just fine.

gah, i don't believe in retaliation, either...i refuse to allow someone to control me to that level. my kids have learned that the natural consequence of leaving your stuff on the porch is to lose it.

i'd be more likely to head on down there or call the cops if i honestly thought we could GET the stuff back...or that something positive could come of doing so.

i'm waiting to see if my daughter has any luck with him at his school.


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

I think I'd call the police! I agree with angelpie that to not do so would be teaching your children that people can treat them badly and get away with it, that there's nothing they should do.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

*sighs* really? i may do that later...i'm kind of hoping it will resolve itself. come home, stuff on porch, that sort of thing.

truthfully, though...i don't think you SHOULD "do" something just because someone's done something to you. i'm more of the..."not lowering yourself to their level" kind of person.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
she didn't actually HURT my babe...just scared the heck out of her.

i've written to the school already, explaining. i'll buy her a new binder...but she might have to wait a bit on the rest.

my dilemma is that the kid is only in third grade...and he has NO supplies. so maybe he needs them more than we do? and what happens to him? does he...get charged? does he...have to deal with an even MEANER mama?


Assault is the intent or threat. It doesn't have to hurt. (well, emotionally it does) If she had hit your child, that would have been Battery.

Call the police. You saw him steal the stuff.


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## ~FlyLady~ (Dec 8, 2006)

That is really bad, I feel so bad for your daughter. Can I ask what does she mean by a switch? That sounds weird... Never heard that term before. I am in Oz so am keen to learn the slang words. Anyway back to the topic... What I have found with my sons belongings is I label, engrave, scratch his name in everything. I also pick a random page in a school book and write his name in the page binding, usually I chose the date of his birth, as I have found in the past the kids just cross his name out etc, so I can say, well if this is your book why on page xyz did you write my sons name? I always try to make a deep engraving of his name, one that can't be covered etc. Good luck with getting the gear back. Maybe you can tell the kid, look just put it in the letter box, and lets finish this, no more questions, just pop it in the box.


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## Clarinet (Nov 3, 2005)

First, you said you saw him steal. You CAN call the police - you saw him. Secondly, I would have never sent my kids over there to get their stuff back; I would have gone myself. Lastly, I would be more concerned that my house would become the thief's new shopping center than about hurting his feelings and leaving him with no school supplies. Even trying to trade him her supplies for new supplies sounds like a bad idea - it's just reinforcing that you can steal to get what you want. I would go over myself and if the mother acts like a loon again, I'd call the police.


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## HeidiAnn67 (Jun 12, 2007)

I would have called the police right away too.

You let him get away with stealing supplies from you because he doesn't have any what's next?

He'll steal your kids bike when he's 11, steal your car when he's 15.

He knows your family is an easy target now because you didn't DO anything about and let him get away with it. And have actually thought about rewarding his theivary by giving him MORE supplies







:


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

call the police. Now, Today.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Clarinet* 
First, you said you saw him steal. You CAN call the police - you saw him. Secondly, I would have never sent my kids over there to get their stuff back; I would have gone myself.









:
I'm confused as to why your children were in the home of an adult you know to be mentally unbalanced without you present - never mind engaging in a situation apt to provoke her defensive behavior and anger. Wouldn't this situation have been better addressed by you - and, even then, safely accompanied by another adult?

Even if you won't engage this situation for the benefit of your own children, please call the police for the benefit of the boy in question. If his mother is as aggressive and unbalanced as you've expressed, that boy may be at risk.

Explain to the police that she threatened your children and why you fear for hers. Let them decide what requires further proof and what's sufficient for intervention. The likely outcome will be for the police to speak with the mother (to determine for themselves whether she seems "off") and, then, either give her an opportunity to voluntarily seek social services or call for intervention, if the situation seems critical. No one is going to arrest the mother or the child over this. (The police appreciate that children can be coerced or otherwise feel pressured to steal.) But, if this family needs help, its got to start somewhere.

From all you've said, it seems clear this boy is in a tenuous situation. Giving him school supplies, while a nice gesture, sounds like the least of what he needs. Doing nothing more would be regrettable IMO.


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## MinMom (Aug 17, 2007)

I had posted a response well over an hour ago, I'm just wondering why it was deleted? I know it was in here. It shouldn't have been offensive to anyone, I didn't say anything other than that I am new, have an almost 10 year old of my own, and that I would have called the police. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Perhaps you don't want newbies in this forum? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just confused.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MinMom* 
I had posted a response well over an hour ago, I'm just wondering why it was deleted? I know it was in here. It shouldn't have been offensive to anyone, I didn't say anything other than that I am new, have an almost 10 year old of my own, and that I would have called the police. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Perhaps you don't want newbies in this forum? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just confused.

It probably wasn't deleted. When I first started posting, I noticed a long delay before posts "hit" - perhaps there is an oversight process that can lag? I'm sure other posters, or this forum's moderator, can comment more knowledgeably. Even recently, I submitted a reply to something and it never hit the thread - something completely benign - out of simple error.


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## MinMom (Aug 17, 2007)

Okay, sorry Naturalyst. I guess I was just unsure of how things work. I was afraid I had offended, and that wasn't my intent.


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## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

The mom sounds very selfish if she won't even buy her kid basic school supplies, I have to work pretty hard to get the basics for my kids and I'm a single parent on the breadline. I don't buy stuff for myself and get my clothes 2nd hand. Sometimes people act strange so that they can get away with stuff imo, if she is mentally unstable it's still no excuse for treating people like dirt.I would still expect her to be able and willing to communicate in a basic manner not poking my kid with a stick. My ex boyfriend has schizophrenia and starts playing up big time when he doesn't get his own way or he's not getting enough attention,so I'm not saying that lightly. Hard though it may be I think you need to go over there and calmly explain to the mom what's happened, she likely will not take any responsability whatsoever cos thats the easiest way out and involves some objective thought, then explain that you are contacting the police( if you decide to do that) and see what she does next. How much does a basic set of school supplies cost? Less than a 6-pack of beer? I agree that they are getting the message that your family are to be walked over and thats not good really. You might be more annoyed if it were an expensive item or something treasured but I don't think thats the point here, I am not a materialist but I don't subscribe to the 'whats your's is mine, whats mine is mine philosophy, sound's like this kid just hasn't been taught to respect others and for his sake it needs to start somewhere.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

A "switch" is a thin branch people used to use to "spank" their children with. Lovely huh?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

I'd talk with the woman personally, if I had the guts...

But seeing as how I don't, I'd call the police, and CPS.


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## angieluvsramon (Nov 9, 2006)

you need to call the cops!!! Your child got these items herself and for some little boy to get away with taking her stuff is wrong!!! Not only that but Im sure the cops will talk to him too and let him know this is not acceptable! If this kid does not get the proper guidence now he is gonna end up being the person that robs houses later, or maybe even worse! He needs to know he cannot get away with breaking the law, I know it sounds silly but that is what he has done! You need to either call the police or go try to have a conversation with this woman regarding her son! You should have been the one to go over there in the first place! why diddnt you go instead of sending the children? Maybe if you would have handled the sutuation like an adult she might have too. Im not trying to be confrontational with this post, but this is now something you have to deal with. If you dont stick up for your kids who will?????


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Call the cops. I am someone who beleives the police should rarely be called and CPS never (if it is that bad, call cops). You can also go to the station and file a report. Have it on record. I MADE THE MISTAKE of handling all myself with a similar family. Finally, we called the cops when another neighbor physically attacked my husband. The cop said it was up to DH on what to do and he chose to only have cop talk to this guy. Anyway, I mentioned DD bike being stolen by neighbor boy (I got it back and confronted the Mom myself) and the fact his sister has attacked DD, etc. The liost goes on and on! He was VERY familiar with the family. BUT, now that we have unrelated issues with another neighbor, I regret not having other problems on file, so he can't try to turn it all on us someday-kwim?

Now I have kids who can't play outside and always have to watch our back. Meanwhile, if I had steadily recorded problems with other neighbor, they would probably be gone. (CPS is involved in that house btw, they do nothing in a situation where help IS needed.)


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I would call the police- stealing and frightening young children is NOT acceptable.

I might still offer the neighbor kids some "not fancy" school supplies- if they act nicely and treat you and your kids with respect. Calling the cops on the theft does NOT mean that you can't still help this family if they're willing to accept your help, or even surprise them with an anonymous package of school supplies.

You also might want to encourage your kids to bring all their school things indoors before running off to play. It might take an extra minute after school to dump the stuff inside by the front door (do you have a table there?) rather than on the porch.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

i had absolutely no clue that this woman would lose it like this...my daughter very politely went to the house and knocked on her door with her witness in tow. if it had been MY kid...i would have promised to find the stuff, gone over to their house and personally apologized. my child did NOT go into their house...they aren't allowed to go in ANYONE'S house. the woman originally asked them, nicely, to come back in ten minutes or so to give her time to speak to her child.

they came home and told me...and then went back. the first time they were there, she was completely rational and promising to take care of the issue...it's when they returned that she lost it. they were immediately forbidden from going back there, ever.

i spoke with a police officer today, who also happens to be a family friend. he doesn't believe assault would stick...as there's just not enough evidence, being as there is no marks on my child. he said that if the witnesses were willing to swear out a statement, then they would arrest ANTHONY! the child would then be taken to juvenile. sorry, that's not something i can do.

he said that if that happened, we MIGHT get the stuff back; he also said that the mother might get herself in trouble, if she acts unstable.

he also stated that i might do better taking civil action. gah, i'm not taking someone to court...i have four children, two with special needs, and i certainly can't afford to miss work for such a thing.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Would your familiy friend be willing to go knock on her door off the record and speak with her?


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Would your familiy friend be willing to go knock on her door off the record and speak with her?

good question! i didn't ask...but i certainly will when i see him this weekend!

i DID ask him to keep a record of our conversation, in case it's needed at a later date.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

In this whole story, the least thing that struck me was the theft of the school supplies - though, I'm sorry for your daughter's loss and the burden of replacing those items.

The well-being of the child under this irrational, volatile woman's care is the tugging concern and the reason most have suggested contacting authorities. Even where I live (a large, impersonal community), police talk to people to evaluate situations and head off problems. Perhaps this is not your friends' experience, but that doesn't mean you won't get a better result in going to the local police station and talking to the desk sergeant.

And, while you say now that you "had no clue this woman would lose it like this", earlier in this thread you said, "i've spoken with her before, and she's not quite all there." So, its valid to suggest an irrational response was predictable and allowing children to confront her not once - but twice - was unwise.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

being slightly irrational is not the same as losing it. her son is at my house on a regular basis. he's a beautiful, sweet child...he's very quiet, but has the most angelic smile...

i AM concerned...but i also know that the system can be manipulated. my parents were both cops here (my dad was a deputy sheriff, my mother worked with the sheriff's department and FBI as a psychologist). i've been around abused children my entire life...but not only that, i KNOW how THIS system works. if this were where my mom lives NOW...it might be a different issue. the police are much more involved in the community there. here, they're just fighting to stay afloat. there are three colleges where i live...kinda keeps them busy.

i've known parents that when threatened with CPS will take it out on their children once the threat is past. THAT'S what worries me. that the investigator would NOT find a problem...and that he'd be caught in the aftermath. yes, he stole. yes, it's wrong...but he's NOT a criminal. he's just a baby.

my babies aren't irreparably harmed by this. they smiled and thanked me for NOT being like her, hehe...

i'm out of the house tomorrow (weekly skating trip with kids), but i'll talk to john about speaking with them on sunday. being as he IS a cop...even if it's an unofficial visit, if he sees something that is concerning to HIM...he can do something about it.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
i spoke with a police officer today, who also happens to be a family friend. he said that if the witnesses were willing to swear out a statement, then they would arrest ANTHONY! the child would then be taken to juvenile. sorry, that's not something i can do.

I used to work at a check-casher and we'd get people in with checks stolen from family friends who often wouldn't want to press charges. I would always tell them the same thing, "If they leave here, even if I keep this check, they probably have the book or box and are just going to go someplace else to cash them. If the police come, they can confiscate the checks (or in this case get a warrant to get the stuff back) and you can always choose not to press charges later."


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

You need to call the police. You need to press charges for both the theft and the assault. As your child's MOTHER, you need to stand up for her. You are sending her a pretty miserable message if you don't.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Press charges on an eight year old for theft?


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Press charges on an eight year old for theft?

If the mother isn't willing to take care of it, I'd say yes to getting the police involved. That means at least having them show up and take a report, probably get the stuff back and let the kid know that stealing is serious and is wrong. He certainly isn't getting that message from his mom. Even if you went all the way and pressed charges it's not like they're going to lock him up at eight for something like that. When is a better time for him to learn it, when he's older and will actually do time?


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

I just want to tell you how much I admire your train of thought right now, loriforeman. I would be extremely upset, and get into mama bear mode. You went immediately for the welfare of the other child. Not too many people can do that when there's a risk to our own.

It was wrong of him to steal, and for his mother to act that way. Looking in as an outsider, I don't think it's going to do any good to go to the police. This kid has a mom like that, and needs to steal to get basic needs. He has a lot more problems than most of us will ever have to face. I'd say keep an eye on him, help him if you can. You can't change his mom, but you can (and already have seem to) keep a look out for his well being and make reports if you need to.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
I just want to tell you how much I admire your train of thought right now, loriforeman. I would be extremely upset, and get into mama bear mode. You went immediately for the welfare of the other child. Not too many people can do that when there's a risk to our own.

It was wrong of him to steal, and for his mother to act that way. Looking in as an outsider, I don't think it's going to do any good to go to the police. This kid has a mom like that, and needs to steal to get basic needs. He has a lot more problems than most of us will ever have to face. I'd say keep an eye on him, help him if you can. You can't change his mom, but you can (and already have seem to) keep a look out for his well being and make reports if you need to.

thank you. i needed that.

i'm trying to teach my kids that "stuff" just isn't important. that altercations aren't okay...and that NOTHING is important enough to fight over, save life.

i want anthony to feel safe here...to be able to come and play in the yard (i don't allow him IN my house, because i don't know his mother...but he plays in my front yard with the girls).

it's a bit frustrating being seen as not protecting my kids...i'm perfectly assertive when necessary, and as blunt as they come. i'm also considered a bit cold...because i tend to be as rational as they come.

also, i can't afford to go to jail. i have no one around here to watch my children...i'm a registered black-belt, and ANY altercation would lead to a charge of assault with a deadly weapon on me.

i asked my kid if she wanted me to pursue charges, as it was, after all...her stuff. she looked shocked that i would even ask..."mom, he's like...eight! he's a THIRD grader, are you serious?" i indicated that yes, i was...and she responded that no, stuff's stuff.


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## MSmomma3 (Mar 28, 2007)

I feel bad for you both. I hate the thought of someone taking something that doesn't belong to them...At least your DD is at peace with it


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
she didn't actually HURT my babe...just scared the heck out of her.

i've written to the school already, explaining. i'll buy her a new binder...but she might have to wait a bit on the rest.

my dilemma is that the kid is only in third grade...and he has NO supplies. so maybe he needs them more than we do? and what happens to him? does he...get charged? does he...have to deal with an even MEANER mama?

Assault is any touching that you didn't consent to. She did hurt your baby. She yelled at her and pretty much told her that her feelings didn't matter and anyone who wants to can steal her stuff and not be punished.

Call the cops.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

hmmm, let's see...

IMO of course...

I hate to see a kid under those stresses. Growing up with an unstable mom and broke is no fun. I feel for the kid, I really do. He is lucky that is was your dd he stole from as I doubt he would not get a more understanding victim, and victim she is. That was not her choice. The choice you have now is what to do with the mess.

To me, it feels like it would be rewarding bad behavor to give the boy the other school supplies your dd has in exchange for the cool stuff she bought, however much in need he may be. You said he comes over to your place to play. Next time he comes over that might be a good time to have a talk with him. It would give you a chance to explain why it is wrong to steal and how that act has damaged your trust of him. You can say how you know he doesn't always have it easy, may need school supplies and yet it was still wrong what he did. Because of that damaged trust, you could tell him that he is banned from your yard and all the fun and safety it provided. Give him some time to think about that and let it sink in with him.

Tell him to leave. Before he leaves give him some suggestions on how he can make it right. He then can choose to grow up little and learn from his mistake or (hopefully) feel tinges of guilt everytime he uses his stolen school supplies.

And as you already said- dear goddess, keep your precious kids away from his mom. She sounds scary.

As a side note/ long story made short story

The school I work at had three computers stolen. They were Macs and uber nice. There was student work on them along with original music they had created. It might dumb to you all but a key was given to a very digitally musically gifted young man who went to our school. He otherwise had no access to equipement to make his wonderful beats. He had had the key for over a year, no problems.

One day he came with a couple buddies of his and carted off three computers. We know he was involved because there were video cameras that caught him. Yet, there was enough ambiguity to make us question (but not really) if he was indeed part of the theft.

We called him and laid it out of him. He could bring the computers back or we would be forced to call the insurance company and they in turn would be forced to call the police. He denied and denied he had anything to do with them missing. We bluffed a little on how easy it would be to trace them throught the internet because each computer has a unique number there. We told him we had called apple to alert them. As soon as it popped up on the web, they would trace it for us since we are a school. Bluff I know.

It worked. They came back dinged and one slightly damaged. I was grateful he had done the right thing. While I am sure any other school would have just called the cops, I don't know if that would have been the best thing to do to him. He screwed up yes. But did he deserve a chance to make it right... well I thought so. Do we really need another broken soul in jail? Whatever happened to giving someone a second chance? Whatever happened to restorative justice?

I think the thing that made a difference with dealing with the young man that took the computers is we had a relationship that he valued and respected. It sounds like you got at least a little of that with the boy. Work that and see what it gets you. Maybe someday he will look back at this and look at it as a turning point in his life. Someone saw some good in him, through all the hurting layers and held him to a more moral standard. It will be his chance to taste a little bit of salvation- not in the religious sense but in the spiritual sense. Don't you think that we all aspire to goodness, espeically as children?


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## Emzachsmama (Apr 30, 2004)

I would definitely call the police. Whether the assault charge would stick or not, I think you need to show that you will stand up for you dd. I don't think you need to physically stand up for her (I understand your concerns about being a black belt) but by phoning the police. It will also show that woman that your family isn't there for her family to walk all over.

I think that by telling the police what happened it will impress upon the boy that he did something wrong and it sure doesn't look like the mother cares to make that clear to him. I certainly don't think you should press charges against the boy for stealing school supplies, that is not at all necessary, but maybe having a chat with a police officer may help him realize that what he did was wrong.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Didn't read all replies yet...

Why did the children go down the the neighbor's house by themselves? Why didn't you go with them?


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## Datura (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh god, don't get that poor little boy involved in the juvy system. He'll go in with problems and come out a criminal.

Have you tried talking to him directly, sans insano woman?

You're being very enlightened about this whole debacle.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeidiAnn67* 
I would have called the police right away too.

You let him get away with stealing supplies from you because he doesn't have any what's next?

He'll steal your kids bike when he's 11, steal your car when he's 15.

He knows your family is an easy target now because you didn't DO anything about and let him get away with it. And have actually thought about rewarding his theivary by giving him MORE supplies







:

Very likely here. Call the police. File a complaint. Get it on record. Replace your daughter's stuff for her. Regardless of whether or not he needs them more than your daughter does, regardless of whether or not you're teaching your children that materials don't matter, he stole from your daughter. His Mother emotionally and mentally abused your daughter, threatened to physically injure your daughter. Why would you teach your daughter that she should not stand up for herself? Why would you teach your daughter that if someone threatens her, *YOU* will not stand up for her? You're daughter comes first, not some kid down the street. I'm not one to take calling CPS lightly, but think about it- you say she's unstable and that you're afraid if you call the cops, she'll harm him when they leave. If you're in that much doubt of his safety, than why don't you protect him- have CPS keep tabs on him?


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

because often, CPS doesn't protect them. and often, their "protection" is worse than the lack thereof.

i don't personally KNOW this woman, only her actions from this one occurance. i've not seen her put her hands on her son...and sadly enough, it's legal to spank, regardless of whether it should or should NOT be. and she MAY be medicated...she was apparently pretty bruised up, and their vehicle is missing. car accident? i dunno.

when we're faced with an issue, we sit down and consider the reasonings and the consequences. if a positive outcome could come of me confronting her, i would have in a heartbeat. if the only outcome is me feeling better because i got to air my negative feelings and show her that she's wrong...then it's pointless. if i could recover the supplies, yes...that would be worth it. MAYBE. but to just go down there and throw some pointless words out...would be silly.

"standing up" for my daughter is all well and good...when there's something to be accomplished by doing so. i'm not sure throwing this family into the system is positive.

kara, these people live three houses down. my daughters play in their front yard regularly, as does their child in mine. the girls are allowed to play within eyeshot. never in my wildest dreams did i think she'd react in such a way, or i wouldn't have allowed them to go there. they WON'T be back.

it IS on record...my friend, the officer, has made official notice of the situation, just in case i need it at a later date.

datura, i intend to speak with him, if he ever comes back! we've been gone each evening...school meetings, band meetings, weekly skating...first week of school and all that. i intend to sit down with him and tell him that while we enjoy his company, he won't be allowed to return if he can't respect my children and their property. i LIKE this boy...he's sweet and biddable...a beautiful child. ALL children do things that we don't necessarily approve of.

my daughter, for example, has asperger's (my nine-year-old.), and has been known to pocket shiny items that don't belong to her. i make her bring the item back, return it...and offer to pay for any damages. i also search her pockets before leaving anywhere (i know, invasion of privacy...but she often can't help it).

it's NOT my job to parent this boy, but i WOULD like to be a positive influence on his life. several of the girls in the neighborhood come over for rape-defense classes in our yard...and he's been known to watch these, as well.

there's more important things in life than "standing up for one's self". it's how you feel inside when you lay down at night...


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

How terrible that neither you nor your policeman friend is going to do a thing to allow for a professional assessment of this boy's situation.







:

His mother, by your words, has already shown herself to be unbalanced, physically aggressive, negligent and abusive. And, the son is stealing. FLASHING RED LIGHTS! SIRENS SOUNDING! ATTENTION - CHILD AT RISK!









Defense of turning a blind eye is a unpleasant surprise on this forum.







: I won't look to this thread again.


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## Datura (Mar 18, 2005)

The system is highly flawed. The woman might put a pretty face towards CPS and beat the unholy hell out of the kid as soon as the heat is off. And who's to say, if he were to be removed, that the foster system would be a better place? I've known plenty of foster kids, many of them were better off at home. (Not to say that there aren't amazing foster families, just that there are some that are truly terrible.)

People are far too quick to call in the "authorities." At this point, by not having a full on neighbor war she is in a position to keep an eye on the situation and see if it is escalating, THEN consider calling in CPS.


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## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Stepping away from this thread...

Wow. And the quickness to call CPS by many never ceases to amaze me! I had more to say but the UA may not allow me to do so.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *menudo* 
Wow. And the quickness to call CPS by many never ceases to amaze me!


MDC as whole does seem to have somewhat of a love/hate mentality with the CPS.

Loriforeman seems to have some sound reasons why she does not want to call the cops or cps. I do not think that either of those things would remedy the situation. Both police and cps, would be weak cases at best. I doubt while many of us see the woman's action as rising to something chargable, in reality (aka IRL







not the interent) they are not. Actually, I find myself very much admiring Loriforeman







:


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I'm also of the mindset of "if they need it so bad that they must take it, they can have it." It helps me realize that stuff is stuff and people are people. People are more important than stuff.

That said. Your daughter should get her stuff replaced. You've made the decision to let it be so maybe you can take her to the store to replace her things.

Only YOU know your neighbors and you know whether a call to cps is necessary. I would call the police before calling cps (and I have for a different incident). I can't believe that she had a switch and was tapping your child. I'm glad you are keeping your children out of her yard. Maybe you can contact this child's teacher and offer to give some supplies to her for her to let him use. OR let the teacher know that she can let you know if he needs anything. It's embarrasing to go to class and not have your supplies. You always feel that you're to blame, even though you have no control over the situation (I know, I've been there many times). I never thought to steal the supplies, but I still. I had friends that would steal and I was jealous that they always had cool stuff because they stole it. I wouldn't do that....and I never had anything really cool either. I'm glad I didn't steal, but that was my young child mindset.

That woman is obviously not right and there's not much that you can do to her that would hurt her worse than she's doing to herself. Why let her target you as the cause of her misery. Just pay attention to any evidence of abuse to her son from now on since you know it's a possibility.

Lisa (mom to 3 wonderful children)


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## angieluvsramon (Nov 9, 2006)

when you posted you asked for our advise on how you should have handled the situation, then we gave you our opinions and advice and you had every excuse NOT to do anything to stick up for your child or your family! What happens when she goes too far with your child??? Like what if she hits your dd???? Is that when you will finally do something??? I take threats very seriously when it comes to my children!!!!! Especially if an adult is the one making them!!! The thought of sombody not sticking up for their child really upset's me!!!! I too will not be returning to this thread anymore







:


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angieluvsramon* 
when you posted you asked for our advise on how you should have handled the situation, then we gave you our opinions and advice and you had every excuse NOT to do anything to stick up for your child or your family! What happens when she goes too far with your child??? Like what if she hits your dd???? Is that when you will finally do something??? I take threats very seriously when it comes to my children!!!!! Especially if an adult is the one making them!!! The thought of sombody not sticking up for their child really upset's me!!!! I too will not be returning to this thread anymore







:

Honestly....even if she reports the threats to the police.....they can't do anything until the woman actually carries out the threats. Personal experience with an ex-pyscho neighbor who threatened both myself and my children.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angieluvsramon* 
when you posted you asked for our advise on how you should have handled the situation, then we gave you our opinions and advice and you had every excuse NOT to do anything to stick up for your child or your family! What happens when she goes too far with your child??? Like what if she hits your dd???? Is that when you will finally do something??? I take threats very seriously when it comes to my children!!!!! Especially if an adult is the one making them!!! The thought of sombody not sticking up for their child really upset's me!!!! I too will not be returning to this thread anymore







:

Sometimes when you ask for advice on a public board like this, you're just hoping that someone will come up with a brilliant idea that hadn't occured to you. Sometimes you get that and sometimes you clarify so that maybe you'll get advice that better suits your situation. It's ok...really.....and I'm guessing you will be back








Lisa


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisa49* 
Sometimes when you ask for advice on a public board like this, you're just hoping that someone will come up with a brilliant idea that hadn't occured to you. Sometimes you get that and sometimes you clarify so that maybe you'll get advice that better suits your situation. It's ok...really.....and I'm guessing you will be back








Lisa

and...i DID get that clarification. the idea of having my friend make a record, just in case...

there won't BE a next time, as my children won't be going over there. period. and had she actually caused them damage, then yes...i would have taken action. too many years of psychology and martial arts...i have absolutely no need in me to "stick up" for myself. none. if a person isn't important to me, their opinion isn't, either.

my intention was never to get so many riled up...i'm really not a heartless person. i've already replaced caitlyn's stuff (even though it was HER decision to leave her stuff on the porch)...not necessarily with the EXACT stuff (let's face it, the week after school starts...things are SCARCE on them shelves!) but with adequate. she's happy with what she has.

don't make the mistake of thinking that my "not doing anything" automatically coincides with a lack of preparation. i DO learn...and yes, i'll be watching to help her kid out, should it be needed. his teacher is jordan's old one...and i'm going up there later this week to introduce jordan's new FM machine...and i intend to explain the situation to his teacher. she's smart and witty, and she spends more time with him now than any other adult...

it's always nice to have differing opinions to play with. i've learned from each and every comment...regardless of whether i agree or not.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

I applaud your discussing it with your dd and asking her what she wanted to do about it. I'm embarrassed that that wasn't my first response.









Calling CPS is complicated. One very negative experience with one caseworker was enough to make me think twice, thrice or more about calling. But at the same time it amazes me that a couple of my friends could have been as horribly abused as they were without anyone calling. (White, middle-class homes, Christian, SAHM... looked good on the outside.) It also depends on the individual caseworker or the county. Ours is supposed to be okay, but I've heard bad things about the county just south of us, where there's supposed to be a bias against single moms... not to mention the stats based on race and poverty nationwide.


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