# How to handle creepy neighbor?



## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

I don't have much on this guy but a gut feeling. I don't like him.







: It's rude, I know. There are a couple just "wierded out" stories that probably all basically boil down to social graces, styles of communication and upbringing, which are no reason to judge someone, but there are OTHER things that disturb me about him. I can't explain it, a motherly instinct, a gut feeling whatever. He knows I don't like him. I've never been rude to him, but not friendly. I am friendly with a few other neighbors, but not FRIENDS, if that makes sense. These other situtions That I mentioned were just annoyances and expectations he had of borrowing some tools (that we use for our business and we don't loan out), we just stopped answering the door, stopping to talk to him on a walk, etc. He just didn't get that we didn't want to do that. He kept trying to talk us into a "business deal" b/c he was out of work. My dh should loan him his tools and he would pay dh part of the $$$ he made.

He wants to stop and talk when I'm going for a walk and insist that my girls remember his name. I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. Now I avoid him and he me. I'll walk right by and not say a word. Not mad or angry, just not comfortable. He's home during the day (older) all day and I just don't want him getting friendly or stopping by all the time (as he was). It's an unspoken, just "don't bug me" kind of gait to my walk that I put on and he knows. He doesn't like me either (probably b/c of everything stated above).

What's the problem? He addresses my KIDS without addressing me. I never tell them to respond, in fact, I've told them NOT to respond or speak to him unless I'm around. I'm a pretty respectful person (reasonably) and believe in the old "speak when spoken to* rule, I THINK. Generally. If someone says, "hello", hello back at the park. whatever. But, he will see them in my yard if we're out doing yard work and say, "Hi, girls! Are you workin' hard?" Something harmless like that. They'll generally just wave and nod and I let it go. Why would he want to do that? Bugs the S*** out of me. I think he's doing it to bug the S**** out of me, but I feel like he's preying on my kids. Seducing them in a way. If we're on a walk, he'll say "Hi girls" as I walk by, knowing he's not going to address me or I him.

We have a nice street. A nice neighborhood. A general sense of safety, friendliness and community. We have a good reputation on our street and a good raport with our other neighbors (who are all very friendly with this man, BTW), but none whom we know very well. How do I handle this? Honestly? He creeps me out. I'm kind of scared to say, "Hey. Just don't talk to my kids, okay", b/c I worry that will piss him off and that scares me. I don't want to cause an uproar and generally want to keep the peace, but I DON'T want him talking to my kids or for them to get comfortable with him. I'm always telling them in one way or another not to speak to him. He's not a friend, etc. But, I feel like I'm just letting him do whatever the hell he wants without taking action to protect my kids.

Any wise advice welcome. Just don't blast me on what I've done or haven't done. Really. It's just been a very quiet, unsaid situation and I haven't had any alarms or warning bells go off about this guy. Please don't say I'm being mean. I'm open to the fact that I may be overly fearful, though. THANKS!


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## babygirl24 (Jun 29, 2004)

Yikes. That is a bad situation to be in. I don't have any advice just


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## jomomma (Jun 24, 2004)

Sometimes instinct is all you need. Every time I get a strange vibe from someone and I begin to think that maybe I'm just being an overly-critical alarmist, I try to remember that some feelings are just strictly instinctual. There is no obvious rhyme or reason for them, but they have a valid and tangible power of their own nonetheless, and should not be ignored.

Don't doubt yourself because other neighbors are friendly with this man - I live in a major city and the Catholic diocese here was one rocked pretty hard by the tragic and innumerable cases of child sexual abuse at the hands of area priests. Though I attended public school and am years younger than the majority of victims, I have an older cousin who was taught by several of the individuals involved. There were plenty of people who had befriended and trusted these men. Some of the allegations shocked my cousin -- he really would never have guessed; however, there were others that - though the horrible acts that were perpetrated appalled and sickened him - he wasn't so shocked by the names of the individuals -- there "was just something about them" that he had never liked, trusted, whatever ...

I'm not saying that this man must be a child molester simply because you're not crazy about him, but his addressing your daughters and not you, while you're with your kids -- that isn't right. It is creepy and IT IS WRONG. That right there is a HUGE red flag, in my mind. I am the firewall between the entire world and my dd. How dare anyone try and breach it. I don't know how or if you should confront him on that, but my hackles would immediately be raised anytime someone purposefully ignored me and then addressed my kid directly. Tell your daughters to expressly avoid him and to not encourage any sort of dialogue with him whatsoever. Sometimes it is more than okay to be rude- it's necessary. There are just certain unwritten social rules that this guy is choosing not to follow. He obviously knows he makes you uncomfortable -- his talking to your kids, in your presence, while avoiding you is definitely meant to make you even more uncomfortable. It seems like a power trip and perhaps a sneaky way of insinuating himself into your lives.


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## AutumnMelody (Feb 10, 2006)

No advice here, but I would be concerned too. There is nothing wrong with trusting your instincts!


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

The open records act is actually good for some things.
Go with your gut. Continue to trust your instincts OP.

DC


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Risk being rude.

There's nothing wrong with you saying, "I do not want you talking to my girls when I'm not outside with them."


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## Girl In The Fire (Apr 6, 2005)

Trust your instincts! Even if it seems unfounded and someone has done nothing "wrong" better safe than sorry. Have you ever read the book The Gift of Fear? Check it out if you have not.

There is a creepy man that behaves in almost the exact same manner as your neighbor. He has done nothing "wrong" but he sets off the alarm bells. He will go on and on and on about how beautiful DD is, it is not a "Hey your kid is cute" thing it is these lengthy descriptions about how beautiful and gorgeous DD is every single time I run into him. He also insists DD calls him Grandpa, I have never told DD she has to call him anything, I told her not to talk to him and I try to avoid him at all costs now. He also talks about what a horrible bum DH is, DH part time job is at our apt complex and the creepy guy sees him walking around during the day and thinks that DH does not have a job. Little does he know DH works 2 jobs... I told DH about it so he went out of his way to be obnoxious and yell "Hi" loudly and wave his hand at the man every time he saw him







One day DH was outside with DD and the old man came over to talk to DH and DD ran off to play with something else, the old mad said "What did you train her to run away from me?" in an accusatory tone. Why would someone jump to that kind of conclusion, most 4 year old would rather play than stand around and listen to adults talk. For all I know he is really just a nice lonely old man, but he sets up to many red flags for me not to be suspicious and I make a point to just stay away from him now.


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

I had a neighbor who was very similar in many ways with me--the gut feeling was soooo hinky (and at the time no kids here, whew), but there was one day I was outside digging in my lovely earth and musing about whatever and he came to the fence and started with the "I have a deal coming up" talk and could he come in, yadayada. Finally I just stood up and said, "you know, I have to tell you, sometimes you give me the creeps. really. I bet you don't mean to, but I thought you might wonder why I sometimes look at you like you're an alien". He did look really surprised, and then stammered about this and that, and then told me about his learning disability and sometimes he just doesn't pick up on things like other people. I was glad I said something, and eventually this guy seemed less of a perv to me than an honestly socially backward character who seemed to benefit from my directness. By speaking up, I took the power in that relationship and felt secure--if I'd kept avoiding him or giving him dirty looks (my initial temptation as I'm conflict-avoidant) then I could still be hyper-aware in my lovely dirt, musing about the universe --but probably musing about the weirdo more, wondering what he'd bug me about next--
I won't allow anyone that kind of head-space.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APBTLuv* 
Trust your instincts! Even if it seems unfounded and someone has done nothing "wrong" better safe than sorry. Have you ever read the book The Gift of Fear? Check it out if you have not.

Actually an even better book is "Protecting the Gift" Protecting the gift talks about kids, and what parents can do.

This guy shows some of the "Pre-Incident Indicators" that SHOULD raise red flags -- namely he doesn't take 'no' for an answer, he is making unsolicited offers, and probably a few more that I can't remember right now.

Trust your gut. Tell your girls to specifically avoid this man. Don't let them be outside unless you're with them or you can see them. Tell him directly "Do not talk to my children."


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## momof4peppers (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lanamommyphd07* 
I had a neighbor who was very similar in many ways with me--the gut feeling was soooo hinky (and at the time no kids here, whew), but there was one day I was outside digging in my lovely earth and musing about whatever and he came to the fence and started with the "I have a deal coming up" talk and could he come in, yadayada. Finally I just stood up and said, "you know, I have to tell you, sometimes you give me the creeps. really. I bet you don't mean to, but I thought you might wonder why I sometimes look at you like you're an alien". He did look really surprised, and then stammered about this and that, and then told me about his learning disability and sometimes he just doesn't pick up on things like other people. I was glad I said something, and eventually this guy seemed less of a perv to me than an honestly socially backward character who seemed to benefit from my directness. By speaking up, I took the power in that relationship and felt secure--if I'd kept avoiding him or giving him dirty looks (my initial temptation as I'm conflict-avoidant) then I could still be hyper-aware in my lovely dirt, musing about the universe --but probably musing about the weirdo more, wondering what he'd bug me about next--
I won't allow anyone that kind of head-space.


I don't know how to find the Yeah That! icon.

I was going to say I'd probably tell the guy "you know, all moms are allowed to be paranoid in some areas. It really bothers me when you talk to my girls and would appreciate if you would stop."


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## TwinKristi (Mar 12, 2007)

Wow! I'm in a very similar situation. We've lived here for over 3yrs and up until about 2 months ago we didn't have more than 5 words with the guy across the street. Its just him and his wife, in their 30's-40's and a little on the hippy side but that's cool! They've always been nice and the guy even gave our boys a ton of sports cards and baseball equiptment once.
So a few months ago he started coming over and asking dh with help on various things. My dh is an electrician but also works on cars and basic handy stuff. Little by little he got weirder and weirder and was telling dh all sorts of bizaar things. He's a follower of Tony Alamo and that in itself is enough for ME to disassociate myself but I am trying to not be judge-mental and rude. I'm trying to be more open to other people and not judge on their appearance as is dh. So he also has told dh that he's been raped many time as an adolecent and adult, and that an ER dr told him he needs to have his head examined.







: He came by kinda late one night and dh told him not to come by b/c of the kids sleeping so then he started calling us! Dh asked how he got our number and he said he looked it up, doh! LOL Then he called and asked for some random check cashing place but I KNEW it was him, I could recognize his voice! Dh has since been trying to avoid him more and more but helped him out last month and purchased a part for his car to get it running (and we thought he was moving!) and he would pay us back the $70 on the 1st when he got his disability check. That evening he brought over a loaf of apricot-banana bread which I promptly and discreetly threw away. I'm not one to do this, but dh did and I don't really agree but whatever, its done now. He paid us back $50 and said he'd need to sell some things to get the other $20.







: Now he's been avoiding us, rarely home and obviously hasn't mentioned the $20 he owes us!
Besides the bizaar stories he tells about his religous beliefs, experiences and that he thinks he's a prophet, he's your normal, run-of-the-mill, WIERDO!!! Whenever my almost 5 yr old asks "Is he still a stranger?" I make sure to tell him YES!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Sounds like the neighbor is, at best, a rude person. There's no reason to interact with rude neighbors, even when no danger is involved!

Kristi's method of lending the creepy guy money is a time-honored way of getting someone out of your hair though. Lend someone money and you'll never hear from them again, right?


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## Tinker (Mar 1, 2007)

You can't be too careful these days, especially with your babies!. My DD was going to a church that had a childrens program and she rode the bus every week(all the kids in the neighborhood went). But the man that ran the bus program made me uncomfortable. Nothing too untoward but he always just went on and on about how good DD was. Needless to say, DD doesn't go to that church anymore!
Tell that man you would be more comfortable if he didn't speak to your girls when you are not around. If he is truly harmless he will understand, after all it's not like child predators are unheard of!


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## AuntNi (Feb 26, 2003)

I agree with all the other posters. You know what? I learned in college that there's no law that says you have to be nice to everyone!







Based on what you said, that guy would give me the creeps, too.

There's a particular guy in my neighborhood we avoid, too, although he doesn't sound near as creepy as Kristi's and APBTLuv's. DD and I used to go hang at Starbucks every single morning, until this guy we named "Creepy Doug" started bugging DD. I really think he's just "off," and not a true pervert, but he does all these things that raise my hackles. Things like purposely addressing DD but not me, invading her personal space, and persisting even when we give him clear "back off" signals. He made DD so nervous! I tried to get him thrown out of Starbucks when he kept harassing us, but when the manager refused, we just left and took our $10/day with us. I also talked to DD about exactly why "Creepy Doug" is creepy, and that just because we see somebody all the time doesn't make them a friend.

I also agree with the poster who said that if he's not a bad guy, he'll totally understand your wanting to protect your kids. If he doesn't understand, then &*&$ him - that's even one more red flag! And I second the suggestion that you don't let the kids play outside without you at this time. I just wouldn't be comfortable knowing he might sneak up on them. But keep in mind, I already don't let my DD out in the yard by herself.

Good luck, and good for you for listening to your instincts and protecting your kids!


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Definitely tell him not to talk to your kids anymore. I know it's hard but if you let him keep addressing your kids, it makes it easier for them to trust him, see him as a friend, etc, and makes it easier for him to prey on them (if that's his intention, which you can't know for sure but better safe than sorry). It would definitely set off alarm bells with me, the fact that he is so persistent in talking to your kids when he knows you don't like him.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

This is all great, but my creepy neighbor is a woman... who grew up in foster care, and has threatened to call CPS on my husband and I because we let our 8 and 10 year old play out in our gated, 10 house street, only one entrance or exit, and we are on the end.

She did call cps because I was still breastfeeding my youngest at age 14 months... he is now 2 1/2 and still breastfeeding. They opened an investigation, just enough to talk to his PED, (vax records). Our Ped breastfed her kiddos until they were three and half, and almost five.

She is always trying to talk to the kids, and she creeps me out. She is also very religious, and told my children that until they accept christ as their savior, they will always be geeks and losers. (we are atheists, and teach our children to be/do good for the joy of it)

To top it all off.. her dog bit my daughter, and when I asked for rabies information, I was told that it was none of my business, and that if I reported it to Animal control, she would have CPS take my children away.

So now we just ignore her... the rest of the neighbors, except for her sister who lives across the street from her, do the same...Maybe at some point she will just leave.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwinKristi* 
Wow! I'm in a very similar situation.
.... Whenever my almost 5 yr old asks "Is he still a stranger?" I make sure to tell him YES!

That is perfect!

My creepy neighbor is right next door. When they first moved in I told my dh that he was dumber than doggie doo-doo and creepy - not a good combination. We love our street and neighbors (one adopted grandma much to my mil dismay and many families we are friends with) and I know I am not the only one that feels this way. People are often having "What are they doing now"







: conversations about them.

We mostly just avoid them but he doesn't avoid us yet so I may need to try the direct approach of telling him he creeps me out. I would hate to end up with outright hostility though.

I guess I have no help just commiseration and wanted to say thanks for the good coping strategies.


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks for all the responses. You're giving me confidence that it's not bitchy-ness that has to come across, but just protecting my kids that is my ultimate goal. He's so wierd. I'm just SO nervous this will cause some hostility and "get back at them" mentality, and in a nut-ball...that's just not good. I've told my girls. DO. NOT. TALK. TO. HIM.!!! "Why, Mommy? That's not nice".







They're already SO CONCERNED with "being nice". UGH! This is one of the reasons why I feel I need to go so overboard. They're very compliant, sensitive, kind people who, unfortunately want to make a lot of people happy and want people to like them. I'm really trying to find the balance between "Believe the good in people. Don't judge people. Be kind" philosophy that we try to follow, but "Oh, baby, baby...it's a WILD WORLD". I don't want to make them cynical, but cautious, smart. I just tell them..."Mommy knows best and some people aren't good. You don't have to be nice to everyone and I don't want you to talk to THAT MAN." Our neighbor down the street (his direct neighbor) has a 4-yr.-old girl, too and she thinks I'm nuts. Thinks he's just a kooky old fart who's overly friendly and talks too much. Yeah. That too. We don't have a lot of the same parenting philosophies, though. So....







. UGH. I need to really think about my response b/4 he does it again. I'm known to just blow-up after I've been boiling about something for a while and the person is left wondering why their nose was just bit off without warning.







Don't want to come off like a loony, but a smart, direct mama who means business!!


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Oh yeah...wanted to add that MOST of the time, he's yelling across the street. Lovely. He's not even on the same side of the street as us, but looks right into our side yard (down 3 houses and across the street). I walk on the other side of the street on walks until we pass his house now, but if he's driving by, even, he'll yell out his window "HI GIRLS!!"







: Do I yell back (if that's the next incident)...."DON'T TALK TO MY KIDS, ______" Fill in the blank.







Or do I go approach him while he's hosing off his driveway for the 10th time that day? Thoughts? Advice?


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## Fiercemama (May 30, 2003)

Another shout out for Protecting the Gift. Its the one parenting book I recommend across the board to everyone, regardless of your parenting style. Run out and get this book now!

Trust your instincts, and stay away from him. Let your kids know that he creeps you out. You will be setting a powerful example for them - trusting and acting on your instincts about people is more important that making "nice". An especially powerful lesson we can teach our girls. There are many other very concrete, practical ideas to keep you and your kids safe that you will get from this book too.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm not sure how old your girls are, but I wanted to suggest that this is a good opportunity to talk about feelings of instinct regardless of whether someone is considered a stranger or not. Like a pp mentioned, young children often don't really understand what constitutes a stranger - is it someone you've never seen before, someone whose name you don't know, someone you don't know well, etc. etc. Not to mention the sad fact that the majority of kidnappings and molestations are committed by someone with whom the child is familiar.

My approach has been to take the focus off of whether the person is a stranger or not, but rather that they are never to go anywhere with anyone unless dh or I know about it first, that they don't ever have to talk to anyone they don't want to, and that if they ever feel uncomfortable they should come get us.

Ds1 is into superheros, and has been asking me lately if there is such a thing as real bad guys. I told him that yes, some people do bad things. I tell him that most people are good people, but that it can be very difficult to know whether someone will do something bad, and that's why dh and I will help protect him while he is still learning (or something to that effect, it was a back and forth conversation).

I find it very difficult to walk that fine line between bringing the issue to ds's attention and freaking him out. I don't want him completely paranoid (my parents overdid it and both my sister and I are pretty hypervigilant), but I want to make sure that he always follows his instincts and knows to come get us if something doesn't feel right.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I'm not saying anything about this particular person since I know nothing about him aside from what you've written but things can happen on nice streets too.

If your gut tells you something is wrong, I'd say listen.

I don't think you have to be rude (not that I think you are) but it's okay to set boundaries and chose who you will interact with.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Definitely wait until it is YOU who can initiate the conversation on your terms. If you are responding to his communication, it immediately sets up a power hierarchy, you want to be the instigator. I suggest waiting until DH is home, and choosing to either take him with you across the street or standing on the front porch watching you (not for the manly-protection factor, I would suggest having a friend do the same, for a show of togetherness and force), and simply state, "We are uncomfortable with you speaking to our daughters. From this day forward, refrain from addressing them at all when you see them. Should you feel the need to communicate with us, direct your questions to my husband / to me." If he starts to question, wonder why, what the heck? then you can calmly reiterate, "From now forward, do not speak to my daughters either in or out of my presence." and strut your bad self on down back to your house, you strong mama!


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

trust your gut. there is not a single reason in the world that you HAVE to allow him to talk to your kids. you don't owe him anything. if you feel icky about it, that's reason enough. your responsibility is to your kids, not to him. and if it turns out that he's completely innocent, honestly...who cares. i mean, seriously. will your children's lives be drastically reduced by not having him in their life? no. so, trust your gut and stay away. it will also show your daughters that you are willing to risk social awkwardness to protect them, which i think is a very important thing for them to know about you.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

I know it's hard but if you let him keep addressing your kids, it makes it easier for them to trust him, see him as a friend, etc, and makes it easier for him to prey on them
This is true.


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## Milvudeeshna (May 4, 2004)

My DP wants to know if he speaks to your children when they're out with your DP?


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## julie128 (Jan 9, 2003)

Both The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift are excellent. Your library probably has them. A friend of mine had the creep in her house. Her DH made a pass at her teenaged daughter. Only after the fact did she realize that there were signs beforehand. Have you thought of looking up to see if he's on one of those lists that the police keep of sex offenders? Some states post the info online. In any case, yes, trust your gut.


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Oh, I TOTALLY agree that while we don't speak to him or consider him a friend, they know who he is and is "familiar" with him and the more he addresses or speaks to them, the more "comfortable" they may become. This is precisely my fear. Absolutely, bad things can happen on a good street. I guess that's why I'm on hyper-alert. Like....you're not hidin' anything here with me, buddy. Initially, my ignoring him was in hopes that he would just consider me a bitch and let us be. That his over friendliness would wane, but it's seems to just egg him on. I'm sure my passive-agressiveness has, in a way, challenged him. ICK!!









As for dh, I don't know. Good question as to whether "creepy" addresses them when they're with him. I've talked to him about this numerous times and, well. He's a "nice" guy who somewhat naievely (sp?) believes the good in most people and doesn't want to rock the boat. "Keep the peace" is their family motto. I need to bring it up again, but don't know how. He UNDOUBTEDLY will choose to protect his daughters, but, like me is afraid probably of his response as well as the uncomfortable social awkwardness that someone else mentioned. I hope he doesn't think I'm an alarmist. He heard me remind them the other day not to speak to him and he didn't say anything.

I feel like I need to clarify (not that anyone has accused me) that not always are my girls outside alone when this happens. I could be across the yard or around the side-yard and I hear him. Many times I'm on a walk with them when he does it.

You've all empowered me, so thank you. I was afraid to post all this for fear that I would be considered judgemental and mean, since I don't have any info. I've checked the sex abusers site and I can't find anything. However, I know he lives with his girlfriend and is not married, so could he be hiding under that? I have a friend that is an ex-parole officer. Would it be bad to ask him to do some digging? (if he even could) I know the town he came from and maybe I could find something there? But, who knows how these people hide and who knows what he has and hasn't done. I just know I don't trust him a bit.

So, just walk right over? Tell him not to speak to my girls with no explanation and I won't appear like a lunatic? (I know I don't OWE him an explanation and I don't CARE if I appear like a lunatic) I just want an effective way of communicating with him. I don't want to give him any reason to blow me off. KWIM?

Keep talking me through this, please. I appreciate it. I'm gaining courage. Thanks.


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## browneyedsol (Mar 26, 2002)

Like AuntNi, we also have encountered a "creepy Doug". I had to double check your location AuntNi!









Long story, but Doug--newly divorced--moved in next door a couple years ago. He has joint custody of his dd, who became very dear to us after we met her. My boys had been wanting a neighborhood playmate for a long time and there were no kids in the neighborhood prior. They were thrilled to have a friend, and the kids played for hours outside together. Doug was very friendly, probably overly friendly, but at the time I attributed that to the tumult and loneliness of going through a divorce. Doug isn't hurting for change, but as a single mom I am. He certainly picked up on that and started making very generous offers to buy things for the yard (our yard) that the kids played in. Ofcourse that meant he had some ownership with our territory... You know where this is going. After being friends for over two months, having enjoyable barbque's and outings together, Doug dropped the bomb over a glass of wine. I had zero intentions about any kind of romance, and since he already had a girlfriend, I didn't think he did either. Well, out came his comment, "I'd reaaally love to throw you on the floor and make out with you right now." I was *shocked*, especially since we were having a lively discussion about...politics...and then he just tossed that on in. I was speechless. First I laughed nervously. Then I declined matter of factly, and called my kids (who were just a room away playing!) to head home. They didn't want to leave, and my then 4 year old had a tantrum. You can imagine how awkward this was. I was a little scared, as his glance was beyond creepy and psycho after I turned him down. The story gets very complicated from here with me trying to form hardcore boundaries and him seeking to either cross them or punish me in manipulative ways or both--for turning him down...it's been awful. Completely awful.

First off, here's the good news:
Finally--FINALLY--he is moving OUT! YAHOOOOOOOO!!!

Now the lesson learned. It is really hard to create boundaries with someone you have to live next door to, but I will express regret here that I don't feel I was direct enough at first. I had thought this was a trustworthy person, so it was difficult to discern how big the issue was, how bad was bad...how to handle it...especially because of the kids' relationship. As a single parent, I am taxed with so much already. Taking on the neighbor in addition to my other family court struggles just felt impossible. Avoidance seemed the best approach to the "friendly" slick business man next door. He wanted to buy my kids present after present or take us on expensive days out to festivals and galleries. I said no, I said no, and I said no. I was too polite. I should have said, "No thank you, and please don't ask again. Don't call. Take your "gifts" and get out of my yard. Don't speak to me. Don't speak to my kids. If you choose not to take me seriously I will file a formal harrassment order with the county." I wish I would have said it just like that. It wasn't enough to avoid. I declined all of his offers after the incident and he still purchased things for my kids and just left them in our yard. My kids would say, "Wow. That's so nice of Doug" ugh. I finally just laid it out to the kids. They kind of laughed when I told them that Doug was being rude to me because I didn't want to be his girlfriend, which was how I put it since explaining the sexual content was something I wanted to shelter them from...not that I was right to be so careful of this. They thought it absurd nonetheless, and then there was a quiet that followed the giggles and they finally sensed the real ickines...

Contemplate boundaries is my advice-stemming from my experience. I was too trusting. When new neighbors move in, no matter how great seeming they are--I'm moving slow as molasses into anything other than a cordial path crossing. Sad that it has to be this way...but ya gotta be careful.


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## living_organic (Sep 25, 2006)

I must say that I think you should seek him out...go to his house without your kids and tell him flat out that you do not want him to speak to your kids anymore, that you are creeped out by the way he goes way out of his way to speak to them and that with so many child predetors now days you can't be too careful. Tell him that his actions make you very uncomfortable.

If you don't want to seek him out you can wait till he does it again, then go right up to him and tell him to stop and never do it again!

He may be just lonely, but if it's innocent he needs to know how he's percieved anyway!


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

So, just walk right over? Tell him not to speak to my girls with no explanation and I won't appear like a lunatic?
You could always just walk over and say, "For whatever reason, you freak my kids out. Please stop trying to talk to them." Everyone understand that kids just sometimes are scared of some people, even your neighbors will get that (and I understand that it's important to you to keep your current neighbor relations where they are, it really does impact your quality of life if everyone decides you're the hysterical weirdo mommy!) and then he's the jerk if he keeps scaring your kids.


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## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniedb* 
Definitely wait until it is YOU who can initiate the conversation on your terms. If you are responding to his communication, it immediately sets up a power hierarchy, you want to be the instigator. I suggest waiting until DH is home, and choosing to either take him with you across the street or standing on the front porch watching you (not for the manly-protection factor, I would suggest having a friend do the same, for a show of togetherness and force), and simply state, "We are uncomfortable with you speaking to our daughters. From this day forward, refrain from addressing them at all when you see them. Should you feel the need to communicate with us, direct your questions to my husband / to me." If he starts to question, wonder why, what the heck? then you can calmly reiterate, "From now forward, do not speak to my daughters either in or out of my presence." and strut your bad self on down back to your house, you strong mama!

This is exactly how you should handle this, imo, right down to the strutting your bad self on down back to your house. Yes! I like that attitude!

Maybe all the neighborhood kids talk to him because their parents haven't FELT or acted on their feelings of creeped-out-ness. If you and DH would rather be a little gentler, I would simply add to my request of him that due to the nature of society, you cannot have strange men addressing your dds, or dds in your care. And it doesn't matter what the other families' policies are on him, this one is yours.

Yes, sure, he could be a truly well-meant social clod, sexist jerk who just doesn't care what your feelings are... and he just wants to be great buddies and wants to borrow your stuff and socialize with less discerning people (kids). Doesn't matter. He's crossed the line talking to your children while ignoring you. No, no, no. I think that falls under the category, Forced Teaming*. He's TAKING them onto his team, the one where he talks to them, and not to you, and where they talk to each other when you're not there in the yard. You're on the OUTSIDE of that little ring he's creating.

"You may not address my child." Boom. Evil eye. Move along. I've done it. You have to. Jeez, there are some days in the dept store, or places where lots of men are... just LEERING at my 8 yo dd! She's very, very pretty, yes, but oo, it's creepy sometimes when I can see their brain actually switch off and their eyes glaze over and they have lost all decency and it's like I'm not there and she is not just a second-grader kid who's begging her mom for candy or a toy.

Well, I thought this was a good place to post the survival signals from Protecting the Gift: things to make you WARY that the "creep" really is bad news. It's my paraphrasing of his descriptions; his points just the way he puts them. Maybe a mod could do something, make them a sticky, is it?

*Forced Teaming --he keeps wrangling an association with victim;
"We (victim and him) are in this together..."

Charm and Niceness-- to control; compel by allure or attraction

Too Many Details--when people lie, they tend to keep talking about
something, adding more details, convincing themselves...

Typecasting--labeling someone hoping that will galvanize the "victim"
to react, or overreact, to the label.

Loan-sharking--getting someone in their debt somehow, from helping
someone load their groceries, hold their bicycle...

The Unsolicited Promise--"I promise I'll look after him."

Discounting the word "No" ... Declining to hear "No" is a signal that someone

is either seeking control or refusing to relinquish it. With

strangers, even those with the best interntions, never let the

word go by without ackowldegment. If you let someone talk you

out of the word No or ignore it, you might as well wear a sign

that reads, "You are in charge."

We are in charge. Let them know it. Good on you, mama. Thank goodness you're in touch with your intuition.

VF


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I agree with daniedb, tell him how it is mama!

I remember when I was a young girl, maybe 6, and seeing the chief of police at a pizza parlor a few times. He would always come up and make a point to talk to me, and any child for that matter. He used to call himself "officer friendly" because of the stranger danger campaing going on at the time (1970's)
I was shy, but would freely talk to people I liked. I refused to talk to him. I remember my mother yelling at me right in front of him, "OAKBERRY! Say Hi to the nice police officer!", and things like that. I just didn't even like him near me, and it embarrassed her.

Well, when I was in my 20's. Guess what? Said police officer/chief gets brought up on numerous child molestation charges. Officer friendly, indeed.

I also used to literally run and hide from my older cousin's boyfriend. He scared me so bad. He turned out to be an abuser too.

I've always had good radar.

Listen to your gut mama!


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## AuntNi (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3happygirls* 
So, just walk right over? Tell him not to speak to my girls with no explanation and I won't appear like a lunatic? (I know I don't OWE him an explanation and I don't CARE if I appear like a lunatic) I just want an effective way of communicating with him. I don't want to give him any reason to blow me off. KWIM?

Oooh, I've got the icks so bad from reading some of these responses! And Browneyedsol, your "Creepy Doug" sounds about a million times worse than ours.

3happygirls, I just want to add one more thing. It's already been said by the other mamas, but it's something I put in my own words to myself in these situations. Because of how I was raised, I wasn't kidding when I said I was in college before I learned I didn't have to be nice to everybody. Even then, if I got in a situation where confrontation was necessary, I'd always express it like, "This is totally my problem, I'm sure I'm being illogical, please don't be offended" type way. After I read Protecting The Gift, I realized that No - it's the creepy guy who's in the wrong. I'm not wrong for feeling the way I do. So now, I express my "back off" sentiments by letting them know I think THEY'RE in the wrong, and their behavior is inappropriate. I've actually told someone, "It is inappropriate for you to speak to my child instead of me." That's a huuuuuuuuuge stretch from how I was raised, but I've realized it is sometimes absolutely my duty as a mother.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APBTLuv* 
Trust your instincts! Even if it seems unfounded and someone has done nothing "wrong" better safe than sorry. Have you ever read the book The Gift of Fear? Check it out if you have not.

There is a creepy man that behaves in almost the exact same manner as your neighbor. He has done nothing "wrong" but he sets off the alarm bells. He will go on and on and on about how beautiful DD is, it is not a "Hey your kid is cute" thing it is these lengthy descriptions about how beautiful and gorgeous DD is every single time I run into him. He also insists DD calls him Grandpa, I have never told DD she has to call him anything, I told her not to talk to him and I try to avoid him at all costs now. He also talks about what a horrible bum DH is, DH part time job is at our apt complex and the creepy guy sees him walking around during the day and thinks that DH does not have a job. Little does he know DH works 2 jobs... I told DH about it so he went out of his way to be obnoxious and yell "Hi" loudly and wave his hand at the man every time he saw him







One day DH was outside with DD and the old man came over to talk to DH and DD ran off to play with something else, the old mad said "What did you train her to run away from me?" in an accusatory tone. Why would someone jump to that kind of conclusion, most 4 year old would rather play than stand around and listen to adults talk. For all I know he is really just a nice lonely old man, but he sets up to many red flags for me not to be suspicious and I make a point to just stay away from him now.

This is what I was going to post! I would rather risk the annoyance of a stranger/acquaintance/or even a friend if the way they interacted with my kids was weird than the safety of my kids. If that makes me a b*tch - oh well!


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I think your motherly instinct is good enough. If you have a wierd feeling about him, thats ok to have. You have those instincts for a reason. Dont talk yourself into liking someone. I personally could care less if someone thinks I am rude in that sort of situation. Your first priority is the safety of your children, not the feelings of your adult neighbor.

Quote:

For whatever reason, you freak my kids out. Please stop trying to talk to them
I personally would be afraid to say that, that he will offer- or take it upon himself- to talk to them MORE. To make himself seem nicer/elss creepy/whatever.
I like the whole "you give me the creeps dont speak to my kids anymore"

And I am not saying he IS a child molester, but just because they arent on the registry doesnt mean they arent one. Just means they havent been caught or havent bothered to register.


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

I am reading "Protecting the Gift" right now. It is a must read for parents. I got mine from the library. But I have also ordered it on Amazon so I will always have it and so I can lend it to my friends. It's that important.

My problem with this gut is that you have told him NO (don't talk to my kids) and he discounts the word NO. If you have to tell someone NO more than once, they are trying to control you. The fact that he keeps making a point of saying Hi to your kids-in front of you would be a big red flag to me. Essentially, he is saying-You don't like it? So the F*** what?"

In addition to telling your kids not to speak to him, it is essential to tell them not to GO anywhere with him. Not to the park, his house, around the side of the house--NOWHERE!!
This may seem obvious to you-if I say don't talk to him, why would they go somewhere with him? But they're kids-so it needs to be said and said often.

Also, this is a perfect chance to explain instincts about people and situations. Instincts that people are safe and instincts that some people are not. Explain the bad tummy feeling that some people can give you-and how THIS man gives you those bad feelings that he is not safe.

It's also important to explain to them that being rude or not speaking to an adult that makes you feel scared or gives you a bad tummy feeling is perfectly OK. Gavin DeBecker even says to tell kids that hurting people that come at you is perfectly fine and that children need to be taught that protecting themselves from people that scare them is OK.

IIWM, I wouldn't care if there was some unknown reason why he was acting like this. The fact is that he is ignoring my very direct request to leave my kids alone. WHY? I don't care. This and the fact that he makes you feel generally uncomfortable is enough.

My 3 YO is distracting me so I'm having trouble organizing my thoughts.

Perhaps you AND DH can go see this man at his home and tell him to PFO? Not just your DH, b/c that would make you look weaker, like you can't fight your own battles-but together as a united front.

There is a reason why he is continuing to engage your kids-and grooming MAY be the reason. It may not be too, but why take the chance?

Best of luck! And YES!! Get your friend to do a check on him. Use all your resources. This guy will never find out and it may be invaluable info for your family.


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

****UPDATE!**** Well, it happened again this morning and I confronted him....here's how the big drama unfolded and is gaining drama and momentum as we speak.







:

So, we're getting ready to go out this morning and are on our way to the car (parked outside our house today, b/c dh is working in the garage). I forget something and tell the girls "go ahead and head out. Mommy will be right there". It literally took me 2 extra seconds and they take SOOOO LOOONNG to make their way out to the car, so it seemed like no big deal.







I didn't even think, in those 2 seconds that creepo would be out in his driveway (mind you, across the street and 3 houses down). I hear *"HI, GIRLS!!"* and I hear a shy response from them. "hi". I start bolting out the door, now directly behind them, but he can't really see me. I'm saying to them, "Do not talk to him, girls." (a reminder from many times before) He says, *"How are ya'? Whatcha doin' today??"* I say, as I hear one quiet response, "nothin'". I say, "DO NOT ANSWER HIM. GET IN THE CAR!" (I have three I'm trying to load up before this conversation goes any further). I'm trying to get the baby in on one side of the car and they've already gone around to their side. I'm shaking with the thought of doing what I know needs to be done and trying to RUSH them in without scaring them or weirding them out. I get them loaded in the car and say, "I'll be right back, girls."

I walk across the street and say: "Hi, S______. How are ya'?"

S: "Oh, hi. Fine"

Me: Okay. I just need to talk to you for a minute.

S: Okay.

Me: I'm not trying to be a complete b**** and I know we're neighbors and don't want to mess that up (I don't know what that meant, but it came out). But, I talk to my children about this a lot, but I need to tell you that I'm not comfortable with you confronting or addressing them when I'm not around. I've told them not to speak to you when I'm not around and I'm not comfortable with you adressing them at all. It's a safety issue. I'm teaching my kids about this and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't speak to them.

S: The whole time I'm talking, backing away, throwing his hands up in the air. "I'll do whatever you want. Whatever you say. But, I don't understand it, b/c we're neighbors".

Me: I know we're neighbors, but I don't want you to address my children.

S: That's fine. That's fine. I won't ever talk to those kids again. I'm just trying to be nice. But, don't worry. Never again. "Get in the house" (says to his dog)

Me: Thank you. I appreciate that.

He body language was that he was REALLY pissed off. And I know that he was, but I don't care. He proved himself to be who I thought he was. Anyone else would have been taken back, maybe, but not pissed off. He walked away while I was still saying, "thanks".

My dh was working in the garage around the back of the house, so I wanted to catch the guy while he was still outside, so I didn't take dh with me. I immediately drove around to the garage and filled him in. WHOOPS! I hadn't even had time to sit down and talk to him about this. Partly, afraid he would discourage me from doing it. But, he was VERY supportive and said, "I agree. I'm sorry you had to do it and not me, but I'll go over and talk to him about it later."







:

So---fast forward to this afternoon after we got home. Frantic message from other neighbor who lives next door to this guy. We're "kind of" friends with them....they just moved in this fall, but their DD goes to Pre-sch. with our dd's. We don't have like parenting styles, so we spend little time with them (look up in my other posts for a post about THAT neighbor







)







Her message: "Heather, give me a call back! I want to know what happened with S_____ this morning!! Call me back! He's really upset!"







:

Basically, a long conversation with her. She wanted to know, "do you know something I don't know? I know the family and we don't have a problem with them at all. THEY own the catering co. up the street, ya know." WTF do I CARE?!?! I told her that in not so many words and reiterated why I wasn't comfortable with him and that I'm trusting my instincts as a mother and I can't tell her what to do for her family. I corrected her, though, saying, "Actually, his GF's family owns the catering co. and you don't really know ANYBODY!" "To me, he crossed a boundary with my family and THAT is what I was trying to explain, but the way he reacted stopped me from explaining any further". "WELL, she says, he is SO UPSET about it. He was almost in tears, saying he would sell is house before anyone calls HIM a pedophile!" I said, I didn't call him a pedophile, but he needs to NOT talk to my kids. I repeated this over and over. "Well, she says, he's going to come over with his GF and talk to you guys about it more." I said, "Fine. I can handle it. Bring it on." UGH!!

This is DEFINITELY uncomfortable socially, neighborly, etc., but I feel SO MUCH better about taking control of the situation!!! Thanks, mamas for encouraging me to protect my children and trust my instincts!!! We'll see what happens from here. Hopefully, he'll come over when dh is here and HOPEFULLY, dh won't make "nice" or apologies or anything. He's working now, but we need to talk about what we'll say without apologizing. If dh isn't here, I'll probably tell them to come back when he is. ANYHOO----this is getting long, so I'll close now. Just wanted to update you guys!


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

Oh my! I am so impressed and a bit jealous that you have taken control of the situation. Way to go!









I have not seen my creepy neighbor since this thread began - and he lives right next door. I so want to say something but don't want to be so out of the blue. I am sure he will give me a chance this summer.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Way to go!!!!! You have done NOTHING wrong. You followed your instincts. The wold would eb better if we all did. I wouldnt have them come over to talk. You made a decision- he is a grown up and has to deal with it.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

Wow! I'm impressed with you!







way to go! keep updating as the situation unfolds!!!


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## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

You did GREAT! Well done. Civilized, yet absolute.

"He's going to come over with his GF?" WTF. Is she his mommy?

Yecch.

VF


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## AuntNi (Feb 26, 2003)

Wow, is he defensive much???? "Nobody's going to call me a pedophile" ? As I said before, if he gets defensive, then blank him. You did an AWESOME job, and your DH is my hero for getting behind you, too!

I'll be very interested to hear if he actually does come over with his girlfriend to discuss it with you. Please keep us posted, and know that we're all rooting for you!


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

What, this guy can't fight his battles on his own? He needs his gf to hold his hand? After all, HE is the reason this is happening at all.

Ya know--I would NOT open the door to these people if DH is not home. Now that he is "hurt" and angry-he could be even more scary. I just wouldn't open the door to him.

You did a great job BTW. Nicely done Mama!


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Oh...I'm so sick to my stomach...literally!! DH is over there talking to him RIGHT now. We decided it was better for us, again, to initiate the conversation so that I didn't have to be confronted about it (with his GF). The reason, I guess for him wanting to bring her over was so that there would be another person/witness present. Also...she is the owner of the house. But, it just doesn't look good. He's been over there for WAY too long, first of all (we talked about the fact that he would keep it short), but the way my dh is....he won't want to leave until the guy complies or he feels "good" about leaving. I told him not to feel this way....more later....

Okay. I didn't finish the above post, b/c it's just been a crazy evening. I walked away from the computer when my dad stopped by and forgot about this whole post, which I started over an hour ago!!.









Here's the deal, and I'll try to keep it short. Basically, the guy told dh that he's never been so hurt and offended in his life and went in the house and "bawled his eyes out after I talked to him". He said I completely blind-sided him (WTF?) and he'll just run inside the house now anytime I'm outside, b/c he doesn't know what I'll do!!







Oh yeah! I'm a total LOOSE CANNON...I've sat on my ass for 3 years now, feeling uncomfortable and letting him have control.

Dh said they just went round and round, coming back to the same issue*..."We just don't feel comfortable with you addressing our kids. We're not comfortable with THE WAY you address our kids. We're trying to teach our kids not to trust "just anyone" just b/c they're a "nice neighbor". We don't know you. Our kids don't know you and don't need to. We don't have to be friends to be decent neighbors. We're not saying you're a pedophile, but you have to understand where we're coming from. It's not appropriate for you to address our kids. Blahh.blah.blah on and on and on."*

He kept telling dh how hurt he was. If I'm honest? I feel bad he was so hurt. I can't imagine how it would feel (to a good person, NOT a seducer/pedophile) to be told what I told him today. So, in that way....GOOD, you're offended. That's probably the right response. But his REACTION is what was so annoying. Playing the victim, heaping guilt, reacting drastically as though he can't even be in his yard now, b/c of me. This, to me, seems so manipulative. We have to feel bad, feel sorry for him? Again, he's in control, right? Am I reading too much into that? I understand what I said was hard to hear, but I IN NO WAY ACCUSED HIM OF ANYTHING. I was expressing a boundary. Any grown adult would take it like a man, understanding a mother-bear's instincts and that she MUST act on them. Yes, be taken back. But NEVER CROSS THAT BOUNDARY AGAIN!!

Anyway...he gave dh A LOT of personal background that wasn't necessary, but again, put him in the position of a victim. In no way, are we suspect of people who were made victims in the past, but....what am I trying to say? I'm trying to be careful and sensitive here about what I say, but why would we need to know about things that happened in his childhood in order to protect our kids? What does that have to do with us? I guess we just felt like he was, again, manipulating us and heaping guilt. That's the gist of it. Yuck, yuck and YUCK! Hopefully, the uncomfortable feeling will go away in a while, but if not...it's okay. We made it clear what we want and NOW...he's going to run and hide anytime he sees me, b/c I've MADE him feel so BAD. I guess I'm happy about THAT. That's his choice, not mine. I think it's childish, but I'll take it.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3happygirls* 
This, to me, seems so manipulative. We have to feel bad, feel sorry for him? Again, he's in control, right? Am I reading too much into that?

No you are not reading too much into it. Go back to the bottom of post number 38 and read the part where you say you feel so much better. That's your GUT feeling better. Go mama!

And don't worry about what the neighbors think. Some people would rather be in denial and believe everyone is nice even when they hear strong evidence to the contrary half a dozen times.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

You know what else?

You don't have to talk to him or anyone else about this again. You can keep your answers short.

You've made your choice to set a boundary and it seems he's trying to control the situation with the long talks, getting neighbors involved, KWIM?

What do you think?


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Anyone who gets that defensive, including jumping to the conclusion that he's now branded as a pedophile has some issues he's either hiding on purpose, or attempting to hide from himself.

"Thou doth protest too much."

Good job mama! You did the right thing.


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## forthebest (Jun 19, 2006)

Whoa mama, that is a lot of crap to have to deal with







I reckon you were mature and reasonable through your actions. It's sickening that we moms have to watch our dc at all times and have eyes in the back of our heads. Our and our childrens personal freedom is severely restricted in these situations, and that is what pervs do, make the world intrinsically unsafe for our dc.Even if this guy is not a sicko perv he is still crossing your boundaries with alarming regularity and persistance. He has ignored your wishes for long enough, imo he knows dam fine you were not happy with his constant pushiness all along. You done good challenging his ridiculous and imo creepy behaviour. You accused him of nothing and asked him to respect your boundaries. He's gone on the big huff.( which, surprise, surprise still adds up to him not respecting your boundaries, anything to not have to do that) Well, tough **** for him. I would not trust this man, I have met too many like this, always on the case, forever prying, always there, it's not good is it. Do not feel guilty for one nano-second, there's too many of these creepy types around, I know where you are coming from, like all the mamas here do. He sounds like he is playing games with you, as creeps do, it sucks he is your neighbour and that makes for much discomfort. Stand real firm mama and don't be sucked in by his 'victim' crap. Can you practise the looking right through him thing, right between the eyes, as a focus for you to maintain your strength and conviction if you are having any 'communication' with him again? that confuses them and can be validly intimidating without any recourse to verbal or physical means. I recently told an old codger who'd been bugging me everytime I saw him, really invading my personal headspace, to back off and boy did he strop, but tough, and it was hard for me and now he walks quickly away. If they don't wanna get burnt they should stay out of the kitchen( or something like that). If he really will move before anybody calls him a nonce then hopefully he will, but why the heck is he constantly talking to your dd's if he is so scared of being named one? I mean it's odd behaviour allright. Totally sucks.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

That guy is too strange for words.

I wouldnt trust him at all.

Have you searched for child molesters in your area?


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

The fact that he is playing the hurt victim is maddening. HE has brought this on. When someone tells you to PLEASE not do something over and over and over--why the heck can't you take the hint? You are either stupid or you don't care or you have alterior motives-or all 3.7

From Protecting the Gift-- One of the 7 survival instincts:

TOO MANY DETAILS--

People who want to deceive often use this technique.
When people are telling the truth, they don't feel doubted, so they don't fell the need for additional support in the form of details. When people lie, however, even if what they say sounds credible TO YOU--IT DOESN"T SOUND CREDIBLE TO THEM, so they keep talking. Each detail may be only a small tack they throw on the road, but together they can stop a truck.

The defense is to remain consciously aware of the context in which details are offered...Context is always apparent at the start of an interaction and usually a[parent at the end of one, but too many details can make us lose sight of it.

Every type of con relies upon distracting us from the obvious. That's how a conversation evolves into a crime without the victim knowing until it's too late. No matter how engaging a stranger may be, you must never lose sight of the context. He is what he is-a stranger who approached you.
--------------

This guy's reaction is just over the top. If this were a normal situation, and this happened to me, I would apologize profusely for making you feel uncomfortable. I would also promise to no longer engage your kids. Sure I would be hurt, but he seems to be overreacting. But he should have seen it coming. It's not like you didn't warn him NOT to talk to them, and WHY. He brought this on himself, now he's being the victim. Pretty disgusting IMO.
Poor frickin baby.

Just beware that he will probably try to get the other mothers on his side and make you look like a paranoid nutter. Which IMO, you are anything but.
Hugs to you mama, you really deserve them!


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

ITA with pps . ..every step seems like a HUGE red flag according to Protecting the Gift (a MUST READ for everyone!!!!). His reaction is incredible. He has already crossed the line with you in many ways-- you don't need to justify your instincts at all.

I'd rather be rude than a victim. The consequences are FAR worse.

You are awesome, mama!!! Go get that book!


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I agree with all the posters ... what kind of grown man cries and gets all upset because he cant talk to his neighbors kids? You didnt accuse him of anything, you asked him to not speak to your kids. Thats your boundary- your choice. What a creep.


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## MonP'titBoudain (Nov 22, 2005)

ohhhhh, mama! I am SO PROUD of you! I know how hard that was and what a long time in coming it was. And if you needed any confirmation of your instincts, he gave it to you in that reaction. You told him you were trying to teach your children about boundaries and he said you accused him of being a pedophile. Big, big difference.

good job, to both of you.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Oh, the more I read about his reactions, the more alarm bells go off in my head. You are so brave and strong and awesome! I'm SO impressed and amazed at your strength! You are such a fantastic mother, and you did EXACTLY what you needed to do.

The more you describe him, the more he fits into the stereotypical predator or at least manipulator mold, and I am SO glad you broke through the expectation of being the "nice" mama on the street to protect your family. Your girls are so blessed, they are going to understand one day and be so grateful for your protection.

I'm SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!!!


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

I just found this thread and am jumping in a little late, I know, but just wanted to say that I think you handled this situation so well, and you've given me the nerve to establish boundaries with weirdo people, too. We don't have any creepy neighbors to deal with (thank goodness), but folks are always coming up to my 18-month-old and cooing over how pretty she is-- and while I feel like most of them are just being nice, there are a couple of people here and there that make every fiber of my being go on red alert. Something about them just oozes 'predator,' you know?

Up till now, I haven't really known what to do, since it's not like they're doing anything specifically wrong-- they're just giving me the willies-- but your post has inspired me to be more firm with that sort in the future. I think girls are often raised to be nice at all costs-- even if it costs _them_-- and very often become women who don't know how to say "no" or "stop" or "I don't agree." I think that's been an issue for me at times, anyway, and for a lot of my female friends, too. But after reading this thread, and the strong words of all you women who can and do set boundaries, I'm ready to let that oh-heaven-forbid-I-make-someone-else-upset mentality go. And if I'm lucky? My daughter will grow up accepting this boundary-setting as part of life, and not something she has to learn when she's my age. Come to think of it, that might very well be one of the best gifts I could ever give her...


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## VBMama (Jan 6, 2004)

Go mama, YOU ARE AWESOME!! Don't let him drag you into all this further drama. You were calm, you were assertive, you were civil, and you were crystal clear on your message!!

I completely agree with Momtwice - no need for any further discussion. It is not your or your dh's responsibility to get him to "agree" with you or "feel better" about what you've said. You've made your position clear, now DISENGAGE.

Great job standing up for yourself and your family in a strong, confident way.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

I agree with everyone who posted about this guy giving too much information and claiming victim status.

I can't get over your other neighbor and her statement about "his family owns a catering company". Even though it's really the girlfriend's family. What does that have to do with anything?

There was a horrible situation IRL near where I used to live where a crime occured AT a family business. The victim was a customer and her child. The person who committed the crime was the son of the owner who apparently was a decent person. But her son wasn't and there were terrible consequences.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

i continue to be impressed with you & dh. you've been so direct and honest. way to go!!!


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## Maple Leaf Mama (Jul 2, 2004)

I've been thinking about this.
Your other neighbor is in denial. "The book" refers to this as a dangerous reaction. Trust me-read the book. (Rather than me quoting the whole thing







)

But this got me thinking--So WHAT if they own a catering company. How does that make him better than anyone else. I own a company too. Big whoop!
So she is saying that because they own a company he can't have mental health issues?

What about all those priests? What about that congressman who was recently caught trying to seduce those kids on "To catch a predator"?? The police, Pediatritions, teachers, district attorneys on and on?? All people we would hope would be immune to being willing to hurt our kids yet were more than willing.

DENIAL!! She is setting up her kids to be victims-if not with this guy-with someone else-because she is unwilling to even entertain the thought that there is something not right there. How sad for those kids.


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Only have a sec, but just wanted to say THANK YOU thank you! for all the support and confidence. You really have played a HUGE part in my letting go of having to "play nice" with everyone, even when I feel uncomfortable. One MAJOR thing I've learned here, is that I don't have to explain the way I feel when I need to protect my kiddos. That I don't have to make excuses or reason away WHY I feel one way or another about one person, but not the other. Truthfully, we talk ALL THE TIME to people in the grocery store, etc.....we enjoy people, but the INSTANT I get a feeling about someone, something in my gut that tells me to back-off, avoid, them, confront them....whatever...it's OKAY. I don't have to have a reason or proof of ANY.THING!!! I can just be. Just be a mom. Just be a protector. Just be confident in myself and my intuitions. It's okay if the girls and I chat it up with my direct next-door-neighbor. We're friends. I don't have to explain why I feel that way about him and not the other guy. I'm ALWAYS "on-guard", though, but it's okay to be friendly with one person and not the other. The END!!


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Good for you and your husband. This guy is messed up. Pedophiles do make themselves into the victims.

People who will not take no for an answer are creeps and abusers. Simple as that. You are teaching your children good skills in not accepting people who will not take no for an answer.

I wish I had learned the skill earlier in life. One guy put his hands on me and when I told him to stop touching me he tried to make me EXPLAIN why while keeping his hands on me. He was an aggressive jerk who made himself into the victim and had people in my religious group stand up for him.

He went to jail for assaulting a woman later. Yes, people might think I'm a bitch but I'm usually RIGHT about these people and that is good enough for me.

As to your children wanting to be nice. I address this with my children. I don't want them to be NICE, I want them to be POLITE. Polite but firm is not "unnice." That they do not need to continue to be with or speak with someone who is being aggressive with them even if they aren't doing anything really bad.

They are entitled to their space, and should not be forced to talk to people. We practice yelling at people to leave them alone. To shove their fingers up someone's nose if they try to pick them up. To run away from people if Mommy, Daddy, Gparents, teachers are not there. I want them to feel at ease with doing these things, so we talk about it and practice it. I tell them if someone tries to pick them up I want them to do that wiggly-yelling thing they do when they are having a temper tantrum and kick and poke eyes until their feet are on the ground then run. Then I pretend to be a really nice talking person who tries to pick them up, then they practice wriggling and throwing themselves around and yelling really loud.

When someone has been socially aggressive - even other children, we talk about it later. So that they can learn what is socially aggressive and identify it for themselves. I want them to know that they can see it, name it, and take control of it for themselves.

See, lots of people talk to me. Completely strangers will cross the street to come chat. People on the bus. I don't go anywhere without strangers talking to me. If I try to be "unnoticed" I just end up with people wanting to know why I'm not wanting to be noticed! A couple of months ago I was hit on with my window down by a homeless man dressed as a pirate. Really eye patch with a skull on it an everything - my children were right there too.

I was actually unaware that strangers didn't talk to everyone until I was in my 20s when my friends started to comment on how I can't walk down the street without it. So I NEED to teach my children the difference between "don't talk to strangers" and "you don't need to STAY and continue talking to someone you don't want to or who is making you uncomfortable."

<btw, this isn't our WHOLE life. It is something that we do a natural extension of some activities, with the occassional talk usually stemming from something that happened that day. No need to instill fear!>


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viewfinder* 
*Forced Teaming --he keeps wrangling an association with victim;
"We (victim and him) are in this together..."

Charm and Niceness-- to control; compel by allure or attraction

Too Many Details--when people lie, they tend to keep talking about
something, adding more details, convincing themselves...

Typecasting--labeling someone hoping that will galvanize the "victim"
to react, or overreact, to the label.

Loan-sharking--getting someone in their debt somehow, from helping
someone load their groceries, hold their bicycle...

The Unsolicited Promise--"I promise I'll look after him."

Discounting the word "No" ... Declining to hear "No" is a signal that someone

is either seeking control or refusing to relinquish it.


OK, of all those 'warning signs', I'd say he's got 5 or 6, especially after his reaction to your discussion.

Forced Teaming - definitely.
Charm - trying to charm at least
Too many details - yep
Typecasting - definitely - he's typecasting YOU as the evil one and himself as the victim
Discounting the word no - in a MAJOR way

As for your girls, tell them the TRUTH. "He makes me uncomfortable and I don't want you to talk to him because of that." And the point that a pp made about the difference between 'nice' and 'polite' is a good one. They can be polite and say "no thank you." They should not be nice to everyone.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Oh, I was thinking about your neighbour.

How about a simple, "Adult male who will not take no for an answer does not need protection from a mother with small children in tow."


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

*Please, please read Protecting the Gift, like today! Go to your local library and get it!*


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

I am planning on reading "Protecting the Gift". I had yet *another* situation come up tonight and I was unable to confront the person and tell him off. I'm realizing this is a deep, deep fear of mine....that someone will hurt or victimize my children and I'm so sad, that for whatever reason, I'm unable to empower myself to protect them at that moment.







We went to dinner tonight and my LO was done, since it took FOREVER to get our food, I was chasing her around the restaurant. She was toddling around, being as cute and LOUD as ever!! We passed one table (man & woman) and they started oooing and awwing, no problem. Then, she smiled and the woman said to the guy, "Oh, look. She's flirting with you" (I know people say that ALL the time, but ICK!). He comes back with, "She's beautiful! Tell her to come see me in 18-20 years!"







I just kept my head down and walked away. Not only did he objectify my daughter, but also me and any other female in the place and I said NOTHING! Who AM I!?!? Would I watch someone being physically abused and just walk away?!?!














I'm so sad and disappointed in myself. Needless to say, I've gotta read that book and probably countless others. Reserving it at the library as we speak.


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## MonP'titBoudain (Nov 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3happygirls* 
Who AM I!?!? Would I watch someone being physically abused and just walk away?!?!














I'm so sad and disappointed in myself.









_Please_ do not beat yourself up. You are learning. You already took one MAJOR step towards protecting your dds in calmly and assertively confronting your neighbor. You are having to unlearn an entire lifetime of training to be nice and keep the peace. You are making HUGE steps in the right direction. This is a difficult learning process and one in which you are _actively engaged_. Get the book, read it, run through make-believe scenarios in your head and practice calm, clear and assertive responses (geeky, I know, but it really helps me!). Yes, that was a creepy and completely inappropriate comment, next time you'll have a quick clear answer at hand. And I know for a fact that you are not capable of walking past someone being physically harmed without stepping in.


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks so much, MonP'tit!! I'm really struggling with my emotions about all this....still processing the other situation, possibly obsessing about the whole thing. God is really teaching me a lot through this, as well as so much wise advise here! I guess I'm really surprised at myself...never thought I was a "keep the peace" person and DON'T WANT TO BE, ESP. when it comes to my dc's!! Living and learning as always. Of course, dh doesn't get why it's all such a big deal at this point. He's sees the problems and issues as they are, but not the emotional struggle I'm having. I *think* it has to do with being a woman, honestly. That I'm having to address a lot of gender issues/expectations and timidness in myself that I didn't realize was there. As well as feeling victimized/objectified somewhat. Don't know if any of that come from either of these situation or something more deep-seated. Also, always having the knowledge that I have a temper and that I CAN appear really B****Y at times, and have learned to control that somewhat. I DO get flustered in the moment and your idea to put myself in scenarios and come up with some things to say is a really good idea. THANKS!


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## lucyem (Apr 30, 2005)

Good job! Protecting your children is more important then what others (neighbors) think. So hold your head up and pat yourself on the back.


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## Rachel J. (Oct 30, 2005)

Without asking what kind of background info. your neighbor gave you dh let me just say that those who were abused are more likely to abuse. I'm not saying that they will (they do have free will in the matter) but unfortunately research bares out this fact. Just like being trained to be nice at all costs, we do what we know and it takes hard personal effort and work to change. He doesn't strike me as someone who's too concerned with personal growth and change (maybe just throwing extravagant pity parties). You are such a wise mamma to deal with this now and model to your daughters while they are young what it means to be a strong person who will protect herself and those she loves. As they go through different developmental stages they'll gain a better understanding of the situation and continue to learn from it.

I'm definitely a people-pleaser, almost got dh and I jumped while on vacation in Hawaii because I didn't want the drunk locals to think we were rude (now that I've seen Dog the Bounty Hunter I know better, seriously I think I saw one of the guys on that show







) I really don't want to pass the shut down your insincts skills to my sons and I'm working really hard to respect ds's discomfort with people and not force niceness to avoid embarrassment.


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

I found this thread pretty late but just could not not post. When I was growing up, we had a creepy neighbor. My mother just "had a feeling" about him and kept us away. We could play with his kids, but not at his house. A year after moving from the neighborhood, we saw him on the news. Before we knew him, he had been a priest and molested over forty boys in three other states. Trust your instincts. That is what they are there for.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinksprklybarefoot* 
Trust your instincts. That is what they are there for.


yeah.

OP, you're doing an awesome job. and the more you stand up for yourself and your girls, the better you'll get at it. As women we are socialized not to, to care more about other people's feelings than our own, etc, and it does us no good at all. As mamas, we have to say goodbye to alla that and be, as a pp put it, *polite,* not *nice.*

and the example you're giving your daughters will protect them later in life when you aren't there.


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## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

3happygirls said:


> We passed one table (man & woman) and they started oooing and awwing, no problem. Then, she smiled and the woman said to the guy, "Oh, look. She's flirting with you" (I know people say that ALL the time, but ICK!). He comes back with, "She's beautiful! Tell her to come see me in 18-20 years!" QUOTE]
> 
> How about,
> 
> ...


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

I'll play along with "what would I have said"!! I've thought about it a lot and I don't really know that anything, in that moment would have made a difference, except embarassing him.....I'd be fine with that!!







People *DO* talk out of the arses, don't they?!?!? It just happens too often, and you said exactly what I couldn't articulate...that it was about her innocence and purity!!!

I wanted to just look at him and say,

"Gross!! She's a B-A-B-Y!!!"

or "I'm sure she'll think you're disgusting by then".

or "Perverted much?"

or "Please don't objectify my daughter."

or "Should I call the cops now, then?"


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## JanB (Mar 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3happygirls* 

"Gross!! She's a B-A-B-Y!!!"

I've been following this thread for a while and just wanted to say I think this is just about the most appropriate thing I can think of. (Actually, stunned silence and a quick exit isn't too bad, either.) I think I probably would have just reflexively said, "Uh, gross?"


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Viewfinder said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3happygirls*
> ...


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with someone else, just tell him your children are not allowed to talk to him if you aren't around and ask him to please refrain from speaking to them. Is your husband also curious about this man? Maybe you could ask your husband to tell him politely that you aren't interested in being friends with him.

My sister's 3rd husband is like this man. She has told me that he walks in front of their windows at home naked all the time so the neigbhor across the street (who has 2 daughters) will see him and they sit and laugh about it when the neighbor comes over and yells at them to shut the windows telling her they can do whatever they want in their own house. I've lost all respect for my sister because of this. Her husband has always creeped me out because at family socials he is all around the little girls and wants to hug and kiss them and play with them. It makes me absolutely SICK and I can't stand him and neither can my DH. He skates on thin ice when he's around us and I won't be afraid to tell him off if I suspect something when he is around my little girl.

Have you looked this guys name up on the sex offender registry for your state? I would atleast check it just in case.


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