# Evil Walmart Says Nurse in the Potty



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Add this to the long list of Walmart dirty deeds against women.
I just read that Walmart WON a lawsuit allowing it to ban mothers from breastfeeding in its stores. Apparently 3 mothers near Cincinnati Ohio were told they couldnt nurse in the store and were asked to move to the bathroom to nurse their children. The women brought suit and just lost in Appeals court. Anyone have more info on this. The blurb was tiny. I'm outraged. I thought there was a Fed law protecting nursing in public. Or some law anyway I'm so naive. Beginning Google search now. I think we should have a Million Nursing Moms march lets all go nurse at Walmart (but please don't buy anything).


----------



## ChasingPeace (Oct 19, 2003)

Evil, evil Wal-Mart!

Here's the full decision:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...se&no=04a0203p

I also thought bfing in public was protected by federal law, but I did a little research and found it is protected on federal property, but on private property, including places of public accommodation (such as Wal-Mart), it varies state by state. Ohio has no laws protecting bf-ing.

I'm all for a million mom nurse-in. Count me in.


----------



## weebitty2 (Jun 16, 2004)

I actually went up to our local store and talked with the manager about this. Blerg.

WalMart didn't actually win a lawsuit banning women from nursing in their stores - they won the lawsuit placed because the women cited sexual discrimination.

When I went up to talk to Kevin, he was absolutely and totally amazed - our local store manager, on his days off, would even bring his daughter in during his wife's breaks to nurse - and NOT in the restroom.

Yet .. this problem's been seen in so many stores. I was actually "escorted" from a MA store by security for nursing my daughter and ending up in an argument with the management. I told him that if he wanted me to nurse my daughter in the restroom, I wanted to watch him sit on a toilet and eat his lunch. "But that's UNSANITARY!" Well no shit, and you want an infant to eat there?


----------



## mom2x (Apr 5, 2004)

I hate Walmart! - For so many reasons. This story does not surprise me since their track record w/ women sucks anyway.
Let's have a nurse-in! I think it's a great idea.
OT: I received a gift card for hellmart and don't have the faintest idea what to do w/ it. Any suggestions?


----------



## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

I've nursed ALL OVER in Walmart - the little cafe, walking around the store, etc.
this is in 4 diff. Walmarts & most of the time, I've been offered a chair if I was walking around.

I've never had a problem in their stores.


----------



## ian'smommaya (Jun 7, 2004)

why do ppl shop at walmart anyway? so evil.


----------



## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Because sometimes one's choices in RL are limited, and/or sometimes one's resources in RL are limited, but that's another topic for another thread and has been done already.

From reading the other thread, apparently the official company policy is that breastfeeding moms are welcome. Apparently the training of employees at too many Walmarts is sadly lacking.

They didn't win a lawsuit that they can ban breastfeeding, they won a poorly filed lawsuit using the Wrong laws. Stupid lawyers misapplying the wrong law on the breastfeeding side does not an evil company make. Not that there's not plenty WM does on its own to be fairly evil....but this isn't one of them.


----------



## ChasingPeace (Oct 19, 2003)

The problem in Ohio is that there is no law that would cover Wal-Mart's actions. The attorneys were trying to persuade the court to adopt a more expansive reading of the laws at issue. The fact that Wal-Mart won the lawsuit does not make them evil, but their treatment of the nursing mom plaintiffs does (plus a host of other reasons).
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livi...hywoman_54.html

Here's another thread on this issue: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=163483


----------



## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

***primal scream***

ARG!!!!!!

I am so sad dd weaned.









I am not sure about talking her into nursing again just so I can nurse in Walmart but I did ponder it for a moment.

Sending hate email...

I know they have such laws in Missouri but not in Kansas.


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

"They didn't win a lawsuit that they can ban breastfeeding"
Your right, they just won an appeal stating that the women were not discriminated against on the basis of sex and age Sorry I misspoke I can see it was a bit inflamatory







. This law was a pretty poor fit but unfortunately it is all the Lawyers had to go on in our great state.
If it is there company policy to welcome breastfeeding why then didn't they admit fault for the incidents make an apology and settle with the mamas. Why fight it all the way through appeal. I'm still trying to gather more info I missed this news the first time around.
Chasing Peace: I couldn't get the link to work can you describe the poor treatment?

Mamapenelope True there is no real family friendly perfect store (Maybe Ikea







) but some are definitely worse than others. I first dumped walmart ages ago when they refused to sell BirthControl Pills, which even if you are anti-BC they are the best prescription option for women suffering from ovarian cysts. This is alarming if you consider that in increasingly more places across the US Walmart is the only shopping option as theyve run everyone else out of business. I am fortunate enough to live in a liberal enclave complete with our own small town grocery store pharmacy and hardware store. They dont have everything we need and they are sometimes more expensive but for me it is something I'm willing to budget for.

So I'm serious about organizing a nurse in. I'm so tired of just putting up with these things. Imagine if women across the country went in to walmart and nursed (even for an hour so as not to distress the poor babes) It would certainly be newsworthy and one would hope it might draw some public response or declaration from WM.
Having said that, DH is afraid that I will be arrested if I do a nurse in and the kids will be carted off by DCFS in the meantime. Anyone know if we could really be arrested I'm pretty new to all this?


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Its a human right in Canada to be able to nurse anywhere at anytime for babies, so Walmart.ca can't get away with that!

Nurse in time... definately!


----------



## lilgsmommy (Jun 21, 2004)

We dont have a walmart in our town, but our Kmart is like that. They told a friend of mine the other day she had to go in the restroom, so she sat down in the eatery and nursed anyways, they never said anything else.

OT: I was just at a yard sale and they have a book called: How Wal-Mart is Destroying America, I almost bought it....lol


----------



## ChasingPeace (Oct 19, 2003)

Kaismom:
Here's the link again(maybe it will work this time):
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livin...ywoman_54.html

It's also on the other thread I posted the link to. Mods, I'm not sure how to insert a quote in my post, so please tell me how to correct it if I do it wrong: From abcnews.go.com:

"Two years ago, Dana Derungs says she went on a diaper run to Wal-Mart with her 6-week-old boy - the first time she'd left the house since he was born. As she wheeled a cart full of merchandise, her son started crying. Like any mother with a hungry infant would have done, she found a place to sit and feed her baby - a bench near the women's dressing room - and sat down.
Before she began to nurse, an employee ordered Derungs to do it in the bathroom or leave.
"Would you want to eat your lunch in the bathroom?" Derungs shot back. When arguing got her nowhere, she fled the store crying.

Soon after, Derungs filed a complaint with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission, trying to get Wal-Mart to apologize and change its policy on breastfeeding in its stores.
After about a year, says her attorney, Susan Brasier, Wal-Mart came back with a proposal "that at the very best was goofy. It would allow Dana to nurse in the store but nobody else. And there was no apology for the way they treated her." "

I don't know if we could be arrested for a nurse-in. I'll research it this weekend.


----------



## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

CRAP...I moved to the wrong state! Ugh...next time I happen to pass by Wal-Mart, I'll make sure ds is good and hungry, then we'll march right on in and feed him (LOL...and we have to use an SNS so it's quite a show).


----------



## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polka123*
I've nursed ALL OVER in Walmart - the little cafe, walking around the store, etc.
this is in 4 diff. Walmarts & most of the time, I've been offered a chair if I was walking around.

I've never had a problem in their stores.

Ditto! I really shocked me the first time I was offered a chair (btw, we don't have walmart yet, mostly while travelling when DS was younger so several different ones). If we had a walmart, I'd go there and nurse my 2year old resting on my 8 month preggy belly in defence of those who are discriminated


----------



## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Toys R Us in Manhattan did the same to me.


----------



## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

True there is no real family friendly perfect store (Maybe Ikea )
Nope, too much of their stuff wears out or breaks too fast for me to consider them to be family friendly. The store is great, I agree, but too many of their products are crap.







Too hard on the wallet to have to replace the stuff that doesn't hold up to normal use.


----------



## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I was once asked to move to a rest room to nurse in a store (not Walmart) and I declined the offer. They insisted and I said "No, but I will leave the building as soon as I am done feeding my baby, and by the way, I won't be buying these items after all and you can kiss my future business good bye. Too bad for you, because this is only my first child and I probably WOULD have spent a lot of $$$$ in here over the next few years. But, since you don't seem to care about babies, only want to sell stuff for them, I am sure I can find someone else to accept my money. Telling a nursing mother to stop or move is a bad business decision!"


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Perfect response!


----------



## Boobiemama (Oct 2, 2002)

I shop at Walmart- Yes, you can hate me, but they have the cheapest groceries in town, and we are on a very limited income...

Anyway, I sit down to nurse in Walmart all the time. On the benches in the middle of the store, or I nurse while walking with my baby in the sling.

Never had a problem. I figure at least I am educating people right??? LOL It has only taken 4 months for them to quit looking at me like I freak when I wear my baby in the sling...


----------



## jennie s (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm online today specifically looking for information/relevant activism on this issue - i've been a mothering reader for years but just joined the forum today to work on this! I would like to suggest a nurse-in for some time in the distant future so we have time to get organized - activism like this works best when a TON of people show up, and this can only be done if we have time to organize said people. Likewise, i think it would be great if we did this in tandem with a letter writing campaign... Maybe we could organize into groups by city, with a small number of individuals spearheading a larger campaign of less commited, but still interested people... I'd like to make this into a broader, really concerted effort to change things. Also, if other stores are doing this, lets target them, too... If we can get a network of people together who want to defend mothers' rights to breastfeed (and children's rights to human milk), then we can really change things. I'll do more research on this today if possible, and follow up on the info posted. Let's do this!

jennie


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Jennie: Lets do it! We seem to be close, Im in Yellow Springs, so we could even get together to plan. I'm definitely in and I like the idea of giving us time to plan for a future date. What month are you thinking I was thinking Sept. we should strike while the iron's hot and with the sex descrimination suit Walmarts facing it seems an opportune time. Also like the Idea of targeting other stores as well. Perhaps (this may be a stretch) we could aim to get all these places to hang the Breastfeeding welcome stickers as a goal with the letter writing Campaign. We could write up sample letters too and just have busy mommies print sign and send.
I've been brainstorming on organizations to try to involve. Thus far I've come up with NOW and maybe LLL. Though I know LLL tends to shy away from political things. Perhaps we could just contact leaders and ask them to announce before or after the official meeting times. Also other list serves. I think I'll start another thread just to get people to sign in and brainstorm.


----------



## Missinnyc (Aug 21, 2003)

I have a question. If I am somewhere, like a Walmart, and I am asked to stop nursing, can I just say NO and continue? I highly doubt they would pick me up and move me.

Also, my city has a statute that says I am allowed to BF anywhere I am allowed to be. Does that include private places like stores, etc?


----------



## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Boobiemama*
I shop at Walmart- Yes, you can hate me, but they have the cheapest groceries in town, and we are on a very limited income...

Anyway, I sit down to nurse in Walmart all the time. On the benches in the middle of the store, or I nurse while walking with my baby in the sling.

Never had a problem. I figure at least I am educating people right??? LOL It has only taken 4 months for them to quit looking at me like I freak when I wear my baby in the sling...

me neither & this lawsuit was not really about b/fing - it was a class action suit about unfair labor practices toward women.

like I said, I've even been offered a chair when I was walking around W-mart.
Now, I do NOT condone their past labor offenses, I've never had a problem with them & we must shop there @ times if I want to be a SAHM.

My adult DD worked for both K & W- marts & she liked W-mart ALOT better as far as Mgmt goes.


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

The class action suit is a different one. And yes, that too is sex discrimination.

In all the walmarts I've been in, I've only ever seen 1 picture of a woman in a managerial position. The rest have all been men yet the majority of CSRs are women. Ya know?


----------



## nuttinhny (Jun 7, 2004)

http://www.lalecheleague.org/LawBills.html

Here is a link to breastfeeding laws by state. I only looked at a few, but I seen a few with nothing protecting the rights of mothers who wish to nurse in public.


----------



## StillForest (Nov 27, 2001)

Jennie and Kaismom,

I'm in SE MI and would certainly come to a nurse-in in OH. Please keep us posted on details.


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC*
I have a question. If I am somewhere, like a Walmart, and I am asked to stop nursing, can I just say NO and continue?

Yup. In fact that's exactly what you should do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC*
I highly doubt they would pick me up and move me.

You're right, they wouldn't pick you up and move you. And if they did, they would be violating your rights.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC*
Also, my city has a statute that says I am allowed to BF anywhere I am allowed to be. Does that include private places like stores, etc?

Yup. If the store allows people to enter their building, they have to allow them to breastfeed in it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polka123*
My adult DD worked for both K & W- marts & she liked W-mart ALOT better as far as Mgmt goes.

Kmart must be REALLY bad then. I worked for Wal-Mart for four years and management treated us like garbage. They also came right out and told us that all that hype about caring about people is bullsh!t and that all they care about is money.


----------



## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Being told to nurse in the bathroom is as offensive as being told to pee in the resteraunt.

db


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

I know the sex descrimination suit is a different matter I just think at this time with that trial going on Walmart would hate to have a bunch of breastfeeding women claiming that the store is treating them poorly and violating their rights KWIM.

I think the point here is not that all walmarts are doing this and all walmart experiences are bad for BF mothers but that this huge mega chain that is taking over america has been handed the opportunity to take a stand for the rights of breast feeding women and instead has made a mockery of our rights and needs. The fact that they welcomed some and maybe gave you a chair is unfortunately not the message that is getting out to the thousands of mothers in america who need to hear that there is nothing wrong with breastfeeding. Their response to this particular lawsuit was ridiculous. Moms hear that it is bad to BF in public it is maybe a little immoral and unsofisticated that it should be hidden in the toilet. If we really want to encourage breastfeeding america than we absolutely must start with the puritanical attitude that exists in this country.


----------



## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

Contact ProMoM, they can help organize a letter writing campaign.

www.promom.org

----> Former ProMoM board member


----------



## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I've nursed in Walmart quite a few times as well. I just sat down on the carseat aisle where there was a missing carseat box.......perfect "chair" and lots of pregnant mamas passed me so I figured I was helping to promote bf'ing. LOL Dh was sitting right next to me on the little metal bench thingie. LOL

Is Target bad? I always get irritated when I go to Walmart......but I do buy things there cause they are cheap. I could go to Target though instead, they are only one town over.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Only five years ago there were no Walmarts in Los Angeles County - now there are three near me.









I agree about IKEA. They are very child friendly, but their merchandise is drek.


----------



## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

Hmmmm, if the lawsuit was not about breastfeeding why would we organize a nurse-in? Color me stupid, but I'm missing the basis....

I'm a single WAHM. I shop at Wal-Mart otherwise I would probably die trying to make enough money to survive.


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

It's confusing because we're talking about two different lawsuits. One of them was definitely about breastfeeding. A woman was breastfeeding in Wal-Mart and was told by an employee that she couldn't breastfeed there, and she sued under sex descrimination laws. She lost the case because the court decided that it was not sex discrimination.


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

The original lawsuit was about a woman (3 actually in separate incidents) who was breastfeeding and was asked to go to the bathroom to do it.

Currently Walmart is also facing a much bigger more publicized class action suit for sex descrimination against female employees. (Not related to bfeeding)

My point was that while walmart is in the press for this larger suit for descrimination against women they might be extra sensitive to complaints about their attidue torward bf women.


----------



## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaismom*
The original lawsuit was about a woman (3 actually in separate incidents) who was breastfeeding and was asked to go to the bathroom to do it.

Currently Walmart is also facing a much bigger more publicized class action suit for sex descrimination against female employees. (Not related to bfeeding)

My point was that while walmart is in the press for this larger suit for descrimination against women they might be extra sensitive to complaints about their attidue torward bf women.









Thank you, the lightbulb went on. I get it now.


----------



## jennie s (Jul 3, 2004)

Kaismom - your plans sound great, every one of them! Also, there are a ton of places around here that would probably be receptive to fliers advertising either the nurse-in itself or planning meetings. And i, for one, am definetly not averse to trying to persuade/pressure every nusing mom i know or even just notice to attend the nurse-in once it's planned.

I like dynamicdoula's idea of contacting promom to help with the letter writing campaign, too. Ok, so where do we begin? Do you think we should try to contact the women who originally filed the lawsuit and try to involve them, as well?


----------



## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

count me in to
i am sickened by the fact that i can turn on abc tv in the middle of the day (at my parent's house,that is, cause we don't even want to own a tv...) and see breasts and sexual acts
or how about those sexed up posters of britteny spears dressed like a teen school girl stripper that they have at walmart.....
but if someone sees you using your breasts doing the holy act they were created for, then that is indesent and should be shamed into the bathroom....

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i will participate
i am in ga
but a know a lot of nursing activist momas who would stage one with me...

keep me posted
i want in on the fun!


----------



## jennie s (Jul 3, 2004)

After crusing around on this site a bit, i realized/noticed that world breastfeeding week is the first week in August. I know i previously backed up Kaismom's idea for September, but do you think we can get this together in time for some real press?

Also, should we move this thread to breastfeeding advocacy? There are so many threads there; would we get lost? I don't have much experience with this type of web stuff, so bear with me if i am conflating terminology/ possibilities/etc.


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

First week in August sounds good but it seems very soon could we get things in motion in time? seems like we need:

1. Moms to commit to rallying groups across country. call local LLL moms groups etc and try to get a group together.
2. Moms to start sample letter writing (coordinating with promom is a great idea!)
3. someone to contact the original moms from this suit. I think we would do this through their lawyer?

anything else?

I am out all of next week return on the 18th so I could get together that week, but it does seem to be cutting it close. We need to decide date time where before we contact others. I suggest we coordinate a time to have as many groups cross country go in and nurse at thier local WM at the same date and time. I also suggest the Ohio contingent try to gather at the scene of the crime (in Trotwood I think I'll get specifics).
Is someone willing to work with ProMOM to get the letter writing going that seems the most time critical.

PS I dont know about the web stuff either I always seem to post in the wrong categories. maybe we can start a new thread in bf advocacy I'll contact the mods for advice.

aimee


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Ok I was just surfing to find letter writing help at promom and found this. Seems like the Aug date is for national Nurse out which seems different from what we've been discussing which is a nurse in at Walmart.
QUOTE

"As you can see, the basic difference between a Nurse OUT and a nurse-IN relates to the purpose for the event ? the former tries to increase the visibility of nursing in the public eye, while the latter aims to protest or change policy."

http://www.promom.org/bf_info/nurseout_vs_nursein.htm

I cannot tell if they are against nurse ins or just trying to distinguish the two and organize the nurse out.

So I'm interested in both. maybe warm up with national nurse out which is already well organized and publicised. I suggest that all interested volunteer to organize one. It seems easy just download and print and distribute flyers then sit at the park and nurse. Then we could all gather troops for a nurse in at walmart in sept with hopes of changing legislation and or store policy.

What do you think?


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

a-HA!!!

So THIS is why my Wal-Mart has installed (in the past week) a spankin' new bench and pretty silk flowers in the ladies' room. I was







the other day when I noticed that...but the bfg thing did cross my mind, after reading some of the WM "experiences" here at MDC. Sorry, WM folks...it's *still* a bathroom and nobody should have to eat there!







:

I so WISH I still had a babe at the breast.


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skellbelle*
Wal-Mart has installed (in the past week) a spankin' new bench and pretty silk flowers in the *ladies' room.*


















That is SO offensive!!!

"We won our lawsuit, so into the lavatory you go! Guess we put you in YOUR place. Now get in the bathroom where you belong!"

Someone should put a sign above the bench saying "Managers' lunch area," or "executive break room" or something. Or plaster the bench with flyers about how mothers should be welcome to breastfeed anywhere and not be relegated to the toilet.


----------



## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
Someone should put a sign above the bench saying "Managers' lunch area," or "executive break room" or something. Or plaster the bench with flyers about how mothers should be welcome to breastfeed anywhere and not be relegated to the toilet.









:

I'll be looking for those signs...and knowing who put them there, Alice!!!


----------



## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

so i am happy to be the athens ga nurse out co-oridinator (did i just spell that wrong...it is late in the evening....)
so how do we help designate people in different areas and whwo should we approach the media?
i just read on MDC action alert about the national breastfeeding awareness campaign that is being sponsered by the ad council
it suggests taht we help get tthe word out by calling local newspapers, tv stations, public transportations, all media outlets etc
and encourage them to call and order the free ad materials from hartford direct at 1800 933 7727
i think that is a good way for us to help get media coverage for breastfeeding awareness on the local level
i plan on making somecalls tomorrow
they suggested to ask for the person in charge of all public service anouncements
but
for our nurse outs and ins (lol)
lets brain storm a list of ways to contact local media
organize it on the local level
and
designate certain cities or regions fo the country
does that sound like a good start?
any ideas?
i am so excited!
girls get those boobies ready!


----------



## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

kaismom(Maybe Ikea [IMG alt="" said:


> http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] )


FTR, when ds was small, two or three times i was in IKEA nursing and got followed by employees "suggesting" that i use the nursing room or "letting me know" that they had one (one even. litteraly, followed be from one side of their wherehouse section to the other). although i found it annoying, i understood how it could be construed as being helpful. so i emiled management and never got a response. from a friend who worked there, employees are trained to inform nursing mothers of the nursing room - and the implication i got was that this was to encourage them to use it rather than NIPing.


----------



## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

anyone who is interested should check out this thread on parenting issues:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=165774

it is about a women in OHIO who was kicked out of a recreation area/park by a security guard (the man scared her kids so much that her toddler and nursing baby cried) for refusing to breast feed in the bath room!
can anyone say:
nurse out week is a must?
it is like we aren't even safe to feed our children
does anyone see a problem with that?
i see boobs on tv everyday
but it is rare for me to run into another breastfeeding mom in public
yikes
get on your telephones and get your friends together for nurse out week in aug!


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Yeah mamajustice glad to have you on board.

















































did you sign in with promom?
Jennie S. what do you think?


----------



## jennie s (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm here but i'm being pestered to get off the computer. All of this sounds great and i am definetly in. Yah, so as someone else mentioned, there was some incedent at Wyandotte Lake here in Columbus that i am also trying to take some action on... So many nurse-ins to organize, so little time... But ok, i'm with you kaismom. Let's do the nurse-out in August and plan the nationwide Walmart nurse-in for September!! I'll try to get on promom today to update myself on the haps for the nurse-out.

jennie


----------



## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

T under my state on that LLL link it says "There is no legislation regarding breastfeeding in Arkansas." Does that mean that I can be asked to leave any property for nursing at any time legally?

Thankfully I nurse in public all the time (3 years of it now) and never get anything but kind comments. A few shy/nervous teenagers but overall I get left alone.

Another question- is there any history of nurse-ins working at all? I can't help but wonder if they work- since you're in a store and how far up the chain does hte message actually go? The stores have no individual control over the stores legal choices- you know?


----------



## Kellym (Jul 10, 2004)

I've hated Walmart for a long time and this is just one more thing to add to the long list of reasons. i won't step foot in one and I wish that more of the population who says they don't like the store, would do the same!


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*







T under my state on that LLL link it says "There is no legislation regarding breastfeeding in Arkansas." Does that mean that I can be asked to leave any property for nursing at any time legally?

Nope. You have the right to breastfeed everywhere in the country. When a state passes a law, it is to clarify a right that already exists, not to create a new right.


----------



## Ms. Frizzle (Jan 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polka123*
I've nursed ALL OVER in Walmart - the little cafe, walking around the store, etc.
this is in 4 diff. Walmarts & most of the time, I've been offered a chair if I was walking around.

I've never had a problem in their stores.


Same here. I have even had an employee tell me how nice it is to see a mom feed her baby the proper way.


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Sorry I've been gone for a while but I've been busy!! Just sent letters to Wal-Mart and Wyandot Lake asking for company policies that support breastfeeding mothers to be created and enforced. I've submitted the letters to Pro-Mom so hopefully they will be up soon so anyone can copy and send them via their 3 minute activist page. I want to blanket them with letters and then if we dont get a response (or and acceptable response) then I say we Nurse-In. They are really hurting right now and I think they might respond to some negative media attention.

I've also been organizing the local nurseout for Ohio for National Nurseout 2004. Hope you can make it Jennie S. and any other ohio mamas it is

Saturday August 7, 2004 from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM at
The Mall at Fairfield Commons, Beavercreek, Ohio
Join us at the mall's food court at 11 am, where we
will pair off to walk through the mall, nursing when
we normally would, then meeting for an optional lunch
at the food court at 1 PM.

get more info here:
http://www.promom.org/nno/localnurseouts.htm


----------



## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

I was a member on Ivillage's web boards for quite a few months. (Pity me, please) It's where I have spent most of my pregnancy (in the aug 2004 expect. club).
This subject of Nursing In Public came up, and I could NOT BELIEVE how many women (Women!!! With breasts!!!) were so OFFENDED by it. They could not believe the audacity of some women nursing in public. As a previous poster said, in the age of Britney Spears (and now Lindsay Lohan's) breasts being flaunted everywhere, I couldn't believe nursing would be considered so shameful.
Not to play devils advocate- (and for the record I don't believe moms should EVER retire to a restroom to nurse)but eventually I saw a few of their points. They were uncomfortable with it, and some mama's out there sensing their discomfort or even the other people around who were uncomfy with it seemed like they made a big SHOW of nursing and threw all discreetness out the window. To me, both instances are wrong. The embarrassed to see someone NIP, and the women nursing without a shred of decency just to get a raise out of someone. Were all different, and 40 years of formula feeding and breasts are sexual thinking is NOT going to make breastfeeding seen as the beautiful thing that it is when mama's are not discreet and/or do things to make others uncomfy. Breastfeeding shouldn't be about challenging other peoples views/opinions/etc., it should be about nurturing your child and bonding while you feed it. I think if thats in public, NO Problem!







But, to go out of your way...Well, it dosen't really accomplish much...
Just my two cents...
Peace and love,
Katie

(PS) I have an aunt who is NOT at ALL discreet with Breastfeeding. It was kind of odd to have to explain to my other nephew "Why she was doing that". I really felt it would have been better to have had his mom be the one with that conversation. He's 4 and she still is telling him about his new cousin in the cabbage patch...Hmmm


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

KatieDwayne,

I respect your opinion and I've read others on these boards posting that they do not feel that nurse-ins or outs are appropriate means for promoting breastfeeding as we will in fact just make ourselves stand out more as weirdo nature mom freaks.

However, I disagree. It is precisely by getting out there and making the sight of a mom nursing commonplace that we will change the cultural attidude. And while I personally feel I am pretty discreet nurser (but would never cover my child with blankets to nurse as they dont like it and want to see me, gazing up at me while they nurse) I support those who are less discreet. Some women find nursing difficult and akward and NEED to be less than discreet to simply get the job done. I want them in particular to feel comfortable nursing whenever wherever they need.
When I was a teen, not that long ago, the sight of a young woman in a mid-drift displayed above low-rise pants with lacy or leathery undergarments on display (ala the ubiquitous Brittany Spears) would have had me jaw-dropped and the adults of the time in arms. These days I hardly bat an eyelash, so desensitized am I. It is the way our culture works. We must desensitize people. I will not, can not accept that I unable inspire change. Some people may always be uncomfortable. Sometimes I see things in public that make me uncomfortable. This is how life goes in a country that is, at least nominally free.

PS. I intend to go to my nurseout looking very spiffy and not the least bit unkempt. I intend to nurse not too blatently but naturally so that my son and daughter feel comfortable as this is really my top priority. I might even wear lipstick.


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
They were uncomfortable with it, and some mama's out there sensing their discomfort or even the other people around who were uncomfy with it seemed like they made a big SHOW of nursing and threw all discreetness out the window.

When people are uncomfortable with breastfeeding in public, the thing to do IS to throw discretion out the window and make sure they get maximum exposure of the image of a breast with a nursling attached to it. If they see enough of it, they'll get used to it, and they won't be uncomfortable anymore. If all the breastfeeding done around them is done discreetly, they will never get used to the image of a breast with a nursling attached to it the way they need to, and they will never be comfortable with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
the women nursing without a shred of decency just to get a raise out of someone.

Excuse me? When I breastfeed in public, you can see EVERYTHING, and THERE IS NOTHING INDECENT ABOUT IT. The sight of a mother's breast with a nursling deriving nutrition from it is the most decent sight there is. I do NOT do it to get a rise out of people. I wish people would get over it and realize I AM JUST FEEDING MY CHILD.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
Were all different, and 40 years of formula feeding and breasts are sexual thinking is NOT going to make breastfeeding seen as the beautiful thing that it is when mama's are not discreet and/or do things to make others uncomfy.

Breastfeeding IS beautiful. That's WHY I don't have to be discreet. If others are uncomfortable, THEY are the ones who need to change, NOT me. I am the one with the healthy attitude, they are the ones with the unhealthy attitude. Attack the formula marketing. Attack the "breasts are sexual" thinking. Do NOT attack the breastfeeding by saying that it should be hidden.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
Breastfeeding shouldn't be about challenging other peoples views/opinions/etc., it should be about nurturing your child and bonding while you feed it.

When I breastfeed, it IS about nurturing and bonding. However, if I want other mothers to feel comfortable enough with nurturing and bonding, it's also important to challenge people's views about breastfeeding. Luckily, by breastfeeding in public, openly and proudly, I am also accomplishing this important secondary goal in the most effective way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
But, to go out of your way...Well, it dosen't really accomplish much...

I do not go out of my way to breastfeed openly. I just feed my baby. Being discreet would be going out of my way. And I think exposing people to the image of breasts in the context of breastfeeding DOES accomplish a LOT. The more people are exposed to it, the more they will get used to it, and the more people will become comfortable about it. This is vital to breastfeeding support and acceptance.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
I have an aunt who is NOT at ALL discreet with Breastfeeding. It was kind of odd to have to explain to my other nephew "Why she was doing that". I really felt it would have been better to have had his mom be the one with that conversation.

What is the big deal? Breasts produce milk. Babies and toddlers and children drink milk. Breastfeeding is the method by which babies and toddlers and children get their milk from their mother's breasts, just like all other mammals. Parents shouldn't have to have "THE TALK" with their children about this. It's not some dirty little secret. It should be explained in the same way that one would expain how adults eat solid food.


----------



## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

WOOHOOOOOO Alice!










kris


----------



## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Well Thank you to both Alice and (sorry for forgetting your name) the Ohio mommy before who posted in response. I don't quite think though my post was seen as just the different opinions I had heard and the reasons why I could understand how _some_ feel that way. I was NOT attacking Nurse outs at all, that wasn't even what I was talking about when I replied. Just nursing in public without 'decency'. I don't care how a women NIP, I don't see anything indecent about it- but I would be sensitive to other mama's who don't feel comfy and cover up...
I agree 100% about the desensitization needing to be done. I just can't say I agreed with the fact when someone is uncomfortable with something I will continue doing it just to make my point. That's not my personality, and I'm sure the first time someone comes up to me and tells me when I am NIP that 'there is a bathroom for that', I'll be one of those mommys who vacate the store to nurse in the car. I'm just one of those people. Not very good at confrontation IRL, and even worse at getting my point across when someone makes me feel like I've done something wrong. So, maybe you can see why *I* feel it is wrong to continue doing something if it makes others uncomfortable.
As far as my nephew goes, the point I was trying to make was he dosen't even know where babies truly COME from, and it was awkward for *me* to try and think of how to explain breastfeeding to him, without tromping on what his mama would tell him or prefer to tell him.
I hope you gals understand better what I meant, as I meant absolutely no disrespect. Who knows, a week here has made me rethink things so much in a month I may be one of those mamas who tells another to shove it when they ask me to nurse in the bathroom...









Take care,
Peace & love,
Katie


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

All you really needed to say was that "the baby's hungry and that's how babies eat. If they can't do that, then they get a bottle."

That's exactly what I told a friend's 3yo when she asked why my 18mo was still nursing.


----------



## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanks, Mamid.
I think I handled it ok, saying something to that effect. He was very fascinated and very curious about it. I just said some babies are fed by their mama's, and some are fed from a bottle. I just worried that I would say something his mama would've been mad about, overstepping a boundry. Not my kid, know what I mean?


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

yeah, I know what you mean. (DS is now 23 months and still nurses first thing in the morning)
My friend gave me a glare when I nursed my son because she decided that her children had to have formula and refused to nurse them past 6 weeks. She "didn't have enough milk" even though it was dripping out of her AND I had given her supplies to boost her milk production.

I know she just gave up. She'd rather play the victim than actually care about her children's health.


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
that wasn't even what I was talking about when I replied. Just nursing in public without 'decency'.

Breastfeeding in public is never without decency, no matter how much of the breast is showing, because there's nothing indecent about breasts, and no matter whether or not the nipple is showing, because there's nothing indecent about nipples, and no matter whether you can see the child's mouth sucking, because there's nothing indecent about a child's mouth sucking milk. The breast is decent. The milk is decent. The mother is decent. So PLEASE stop making references to "breastfeeding without decency!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
I would be sensitive to other mama's who don't feel comfy and cover up...

And you would be doing both them and any other breastfeeding mother they ever see a disservice, because they will never get comfortable with it and accept it if you reinforce their unhealthy hang-up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
I just can't say I agreed with the fact when someone is uncomfortable with something I will continue doing it just to make my point.

My goal is not to make a point. My goal is to feed my child. The reason I don't cover my breast is that there is nothing wrong with my breast. There is nothing indecent or shameful about it. If people have unhealthy attitudes then THEY are the ones who need to change -- NOT me. If there were a group of men who thought that all women's hands should be covered, I would NOT accomodate them. The only way people will ever become comfortable with breasts and breastfeeding is if they get used to seeing breasts and breastfeeding, so we have to be willing to break the (absurd, sexist) taboo and let them see our breasts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
So, maybe you can see why *I* feel it is wrong to continue doing something if it makes others uncomfortable.

Oh, really? There are many, many people who are uncomfortable with breastfeeding in public no matter how discreet it is. So are you never going to breastfeed in public? There are even people who are uncomfortable with the whole idea of breastfeeding, even if it is only done inside the breastfeeding mother's private home. So you're going to bottlefeed, right?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatienDwayne*
As far as my nephew goes, the point I was trying to make was he dosen't even know where babies truly COME from, and it was awkward for *me* to try and think of how to explain breastfeeding to him, without tromping on what his mama would tell him or prefer to tell him.

"Where babies come from" is a complicated and sensitive subject that can involve talking to children about sex, and the best person to do this is probably the child's parent. Young ones drinking milk for their mothers' breasts is simple and straightforward and does not require delicacy. It's just eating! Can you imagine sitting down with a child and saying, "now, dear, it's time to talk about how that man is putting that hamburger into his mouth..." ??


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Katie---

First, congrats on your coming baby! DS was an August baby and I really liked the timing









Secondly, I find that "covering up" draws a LOT of attention to NIP. Many people are not uncomfortable w/the breast, per se, but the very knowledge that someone is *doing that.* So, a blanket over the shoulder actually draws more attention. I find that just nursing with the shirt as far down and covering everything comfortable to do so works best.

Further, I consider NIP to be good for our society. So, much like if I were in a "mixed race" relationship, etc... I would act as I normally would in public. KWIM?

Kay


----------



## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanks ladies for the information and for the welcomes and congrats on my baby coming soon.
I see a lot of your points, and it is definetly something for me to think about. So thanks for the different points of view, when people put their opinions across nicely and without attacking a person- that person is more likely to listen and think about the info.

The one thing I did want to comment on, is to Sustainer...Nice to meet you btw







You did make very valid points I'm absorbing.

So thanks for the info and everything. You all take care


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

Katie,
Welcome to the boards and I'm sorry if you were feeling attacked. It's important that we all feel free to discuss our opinions and I appreciate you sharing yours. I get your point and take no offense. I think there are many who feel as you do and I understand what you mean about personality and being non-confrontational. I often find myself overly concerned with the feelings and comfort of others. I think many women do. Through the years I am slowly changing finding my voice. I especially tend toward outspoken mama bear when it comes to my children: taking on anyone and anything that might threaten the happiness of my babies.
I know our society has a warped concept of womens breasts and their function. I know we cant change people magically overnight but I am compelled to try. If only so that my daughter might find herself one day in a place that is much more supportive of breastfeeding mothers than the place I am.


----------



## Squirrel (Jul 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
Further, I consider NIP to be good for our society. So, much like if I were in a "mixed race" relationship, etc... I would act as I normally would in public. KWIM?


Hmm.. it's funny, I frequently *forget* that I'm in a "mixed race" relationship (I'm a Eastern European mutt, my dh is purebred Chinese). Of course, we don't get as many stares as couples whose skintones differ more widely, so that might be part of it. Ahh, 80s television, the great cultural equalizer. We have so many common childhood experiences, sometimes it's hard for me to remember he spent most of his under-age-7 life in Hong Kong. We occasionally get stares, but I think it's more because of the length of our hair (his is mid-back, mine goes past my butt. We're too lazy and cheap to maintain short hairstyles, so we just cut it every few years and donate it to Locks of Love, I'm currently trying to see how long I can tollerate it so I can give some little girl a "girly" long wig, which is harder to come by. I'm aiming to at least get my hair to my knees before I cut it, if my little one doesn't make that too daunting).

Our little family just moved back to Cleveland, within days of the appelate court decision regarding Wal-Mart, and I'm currently drafting an email to my state representatives (with my 2 mo old snoozing in a sling as I type). I stumbled upon this discussion while researching links to include in my missive. I'm horrified that I can now LEGALLY be asked to leave (according to an analysis I read of the decision) a place I'm legally allowed to be, simply because my son is hungry and I refuse to waste any of my precious pumped milk on a diaper run or outting with friends to a restaurant. Since I'm with him all the time and he eats enough for _triplets_ (gaining more than 2lbs in his first month even with having to deal with bad jaundice!), I'm trying to save the pumped milk in case I wind up having to go on a med that he can't be exposed to (I've got lifelong health problems, some of them likely because my mom didn't get the support she needed to breastfeed me back in the mid-70s, she's greatly impressed with LLL now and has gone to a LLL picnic with me).

My extended family (including my father - my parents divoced when I was two and I'm more and more THANKFUL for the fact he WASN'T able to raise me with each passing year) claims to support breastfeeding, but believes it should only be done in complete privacy in the woman's home. I informed them that I don't see that as being supportive of breastfeeding at ALL and that if they want to have anything to do with my little family in the next decade (since we're planning to have several more kids and allowing all of them to self-wean unless there is a real, solid, evidence-based medical reason to make them stop earlier), they'll have to get used to it. We're currently not speaking to any of the ones that live in Cleveland (and from the way they've responded via emails, my husband is of the opinion that we should tell our son they're dead if he ever asks about those people he's never met in our wedding pictures, or at least that they're very bad people that we didn't want to expose him to, which I personally think would be worse than telling him they're dead... I'm more likely to tell the kid exactly what happened and let him read the emails to come to his own decision, I've saved them all). I breastfeed my son whereever I happen to be when he's hungry. If I'm around people whose reaction I'm not sure of, I cover up as much as possible (though I am extremely busty so I fall out of my nursing bra even when it's clasped and my son likes to push my shirt up, and refuses to have a blanket over his head, especially when it's already too warm for his comfort in the room/area). If it's someone I've already nursed around before and I know that they have a neutral or positive reaction, I'm less careful about covering, though even in my own home I don't walk around topless much (even when I'm alone - too much chaffing if I don't wear a bra) and there are few people besides my husband in whose presence I'll walk around with just a bra on top.

This issue with Wal-Mart is really annoying me because they made the claim in PR releases that it's not their company policy to tell breastfeeding mothers to leave or take it to their nasty bathrooms, yet I was talking to one of the managers at one of the Cleveland-area Wal-Marts (yes, I shop there... dollar-a-yard fabrics are my weak spot) and he told me that he asked a mother who was nursing on the bench by the entrance to go to the restroom or leave just last week after customer(s) complained (she wasn't nursing discretely). Wal-mart claims the customer comes first, but which one? If two customers disapprove, does that out-weigh the needs of the one nursing mother that was observed? Does it matter how much their reciepts total up to?

I'm severely annoyed with the way the court ruled, but I read the actual court decision (well, about half of it, then the baby started fussing and sucked my brain out through my breasts for a few hours) and I understand why they had to rule that way. The Sex Discrimination law needs to be re-written is the problem, the way it's written if it isn't an issue that involves ALL of one sex and NONE of the other sex, or if it is a subset of one sex then there must be a related subset of the other sex, or the law doesn't apply. Since not all women breastfeed and there isn't a comparable subset of men, then the law doesn't apply and there is no requirement to provide an accomodation. Though I did have my own brain-storm argument to that one. Walk into a men's public restroom (if you dare)... there is almost always a stand-up urinal. Men CAN pee in a toilet, more than 99% of them do so nearly every time they urinate at home (guessing there are at least a few men that installed a stand-up urinal in their house or prefer to use the sink or something). A separate physical appliance is standard-issue installed in restrooms to accomodate their convienence of standing up to pee, something women cannot do (at least, not without some akward maneuvoring and often mess). Men do not NEED to stand up to pee, they can chose to sit down (my husband is a "multi-tasker" in that way - I know he sits to pee if he's got to empty the other door in the same visit). Women do not HAVE to breastfeed, there are bottles available, but it is more healthful to breastfeed and so many women chose to do so. Using a urinal is frequently more sanitary, since they don't have to lift a seat or even touch a bathroom stall door. Using a breast is more sanitary because the milk is fresh and has anti-bacterial properties. Since the subset of men who chose to stand up to pee are accomodated, women who chose to breastfeed must also be accomodated. Since Wal-Mart failed to provide a reasonable alternative to NIP inside the store, they are guilty of violating the Sex Discrimination laws in the state of Ohio. Unfortunately, I think that was a leap of creative thinking that the lawyers in this case failed to make (I'm seeking their contact information in case they're not out of time to appeal to share the idea), and if the lawyers don't make the argument, the judge(s) can't consider it. Now, yes, that means making the argument that it's OK to be sending mommies to a separate space to nurse, but it is a way that they could have had the case continue, which is the important bit right now.

Just some thoughts. Sustainer, will you be my friend? You're totally in my head with the way you think. I just wish there was a more efficient way to help society move to where it needs to be for the benefit of our babies. Unfortunately, as it stands now in Ohio, we *can't* just tell them to shove it, the management *can* actually have us removed from the store. Let's just hope they don't wise up to that too much, or even better, that more establishments decide to be actively baby-friendly and adopt corporate policies that mothers are allowed to breastfeed wherever they happen to be (that way the managers and such can blame the evil corporate types when numbskulls have the audacity to complain about us NIP).

Squirrel

edit: woah, that's one long post... sorry about that, it was written in several segments between nursing and other distractions. Hope no one minds too terribly!


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I'd love to be your friend!









I don't think the decision means that Wal-Mart may now ask us to move or leave. I think it just means that the plaintiffs are not entitled to damages under the sex discrimination laws.

I'm not sure the urinal argument would work. Sex discrimination is generally interpreted to mean that you let one sex do something but you don't let the other sex do that same thing.


----------



## Squirrel (Jul 31, 2004)

From what I was reading of articles and the actual findlaw.com printing of the decision, since there *isn't* an applicable law in Ohio to protect breastfeeding mothers, their opinion was that the company was within their rights to ask the mothers to move/leave. As for the urinal argument, it's from my reading of the "sex-plus" discrimination protection part of the decision, it's a showing of unequal treatment based on sex, which the judges felt the lawyers had failed to prove since not all women breastfeed.

I don't have a law degree yet, but I love reading legalese and several lawyers and judges I've had a chance to have discussions with keep encouraging me to get a law degree... maybe in a few years, if my in-laws move close enough to help take care of the boobie muncher(s)... or at least a PhD... I miss acadamia!


----------



## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

This is from La Leche League's "Breastfeeding and the Law" page:

"Mothers have a right to breastfeed where they go with their baby, even if that is out in public. It does not matter whether the mother goes to a public or a private place, or even whether they are in a state with legislation. No one has the right to tell a mother how to feed her baby, especially a way that increases the risk of illness to both mother and baby! Legislation has been enacted in nearly one-half of the states in the U.S. because they want to clarify this right, and in some cases, provide a remedy for mothers told to stop breastfeeding. It is hoped that legislation will help to change society's attitudes that breastfeeding is something indecent and should not be done in public. Underlying this, is the goal to increase the rates and duration of breastfeeding recognizing that this is an important health choice that must be encouraged.

&#8230;

"It is important to remember that women have a right to breastfeed in public whether there is a law or not. The purpose of legislation is NOT to legalize it, but to clarify the fact that women have the right to breastfeed in public, or that it is not a criminal offense, such as indecent exposure. Thus, if you are in a state that does not have legislation, you still have the right to feed your baby where you go."

As far as urinals and unequal treatment based on sex: equal treatment in that instance would be providing women with urinals, would it not?


----------



## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

some countries do provide women with urinals. There's even a website about "how to pee standing up" although I forget what it was.

A "helper" . How to pee standing up the book.
Restrooms of the future. The Magic Cone. :LOL





















:







:


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

After watching the little "Magic Cone" annimation, I could not help imagining what would happen if someone walked in a lady peeing like that







"The Crying Game" comes to mind...


----------



## kaismom (Aug 20, 2002)

My next task after NNO is to get cracking on Ohio legislation that protects bfding women in public. I think the main problem with the evil Wal-Mart case is that the attorneys didn't have a piece of legislation that fit on their side. Squirrel do you have a link to the piece you thought indicated they now have a right to ask us to leave? I too thought the decision just meant that the law under which they filed suit did not cover breastfeeding discrimination.

I'm appalled by the sheer number of incidents that are reported in Ohio. We really need a law. I'll let you all know when the letters come up at Pro-Mom if you want to copy them and send them out.

Squirrel, If you write a letter and are interested you can submit it to promom so that others can send it also and just in case you haven't been there, congress.org has a place where you can write a letter and email directly to the media and representatives in your state/area. It's such a time saver.


----------



## Squirrel (Jul 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
This is from La Leche League's "Breastfeeding and the Law" page:

That, unfortunately, is a page from before this all went down and rather a broad analysis of the laws. Because of this court's interpretation of the law, at least for Ohio, things have changed. The part that really worries me is that I think this was a Federal court, so their decision could be used as a precident for other states that don't have legislation specifically allowing breastfeeding. Complacency is no longer an option, IMO. I can't find where I saw the legal opinion that they now CAN legally ask us to leave in Ohio, but it's definately one interpretation of it, especially since we have no legal remedy if they DO force us to leave or harrass us here, and technically we CAN be arrested and fined for exposing a nipple in public under Ohio Revised Code.

(from http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing...-h.htm&cp=PORC)

Quote:

2907.01. Definitions. As used in sections 2907.01 to 2907.37 of the Revised Code <snip>
(H) "Nudity" means the showing, representation, or depiction of human male or female genitals, pubic area, or buttocks with less than a full, opaque covering, or of a *female breast with less than a full, opaque covering of any portion thereof below the top of the nipple,* or of covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state.

§ 2907.09. Public indecency.
(A) No person shall recklessly do any of the following, under circumstances in which his or her conduct is likely to be viewed by and affront others, not members of his or her household:
(1) Expose his or her private parts, <snip>
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of public indecency. Except as otherwise provided in this division, public indecency is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one violation of this section, public indecency is a misdemeanor of the third degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to two violations of this section, public indecency is a misdemeanor of the second degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to three or more violations of this section, public indecency is a misdemeanor of the first degree.
I now can't find the section that says what the penalty is for commiting this crime, but I remember it could include a fine and imprisonment for a short period of time at the judge's discretion (I think it was like a $50 fine for the first offense but I could be wrong). Protesting when asked to leave and making a big deal out of it can be viewed as disturbing the peace, which has its own section of the ORC. While it's unlikely that a judge would find us "reckless" for breastfeeding our child in public and accidentally exposing a nipple when the child latches/unlatches (or starts gagging on an overactive MER and de-latches and needs to be sat up quickly, as my son does nearly every time I feed him - this would be why he absolutely dispises bottles, he's lazy, he doesn't need to suck on Mommy as hard as he has to suck on an artificial nipple!), the fact that the exposure HAPPENED is a violation of the law, irregardless of how long/short a period of time the nipple was actually exposed since there is no time limit specified. If someone sees it (or claims to have seen it), you've broken the public decency law in Ohio and can be arrested, fined, and jailed if you catch the wrong judge, since there is no law _protecting_ your right to breastfeed in public.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
As far as urinals and unequal treatment based on sex: equal treatment in that instance would be providing women with urinals, would it not?

from the court decision re: breastfeeding mothers vs. Walmart:

Quote:

"Sex-plus" discrimination exists when a person is subjected to disparate treatment based not only on her sex, but on her sex considered in conjunction with a second characteristic. See e.g., Phillips v. Martin Marietta Corp., 400 U.S. 542, 544, 91 S.Ct. 496 (1971). Under a "sex-plus" theory of discrimination, it is impermissible to treat men characterized by some additional characteristic more or less favorably than women with the same added characteristic. See, Fischer v. Vassar College, 70 F.3d 1420, 1448 (2d Cir. 1995), on reh'g en banc, 114 F.3d 1332 (2d Cir. 1997), cert. denied, 522 U.S. 1075 (1998).
I'm taking quite an expansive reading of it, and I may be off (like I said, I haven't yet started law school and just enjoy reading this stuff... haven't had time to fully research the complete definition of "sex-plus" yet to know if it has to be EXACTLY the same activity). It's just me searching for a possible loophole and having a bit of fun inside my head with the comparison







It does say "same" above, I hadn't read that far when I posted my previous comments.


----------



## Squirrel (Jul 31, 2004)

Didn't want this to get lost in my long-butt message. Who here is possibly able to go to Columbus next week? I'm thinking that a good place for us to be out NIPing is around the Ohio government buildings, if not actually sitting down on the steps of said buildings when the time comes to nurse. Anyone interested? I'd rather not be there alone. No one day is better for me than any other, so if we want to plan this out real quick I'm available.

edit: If anyone in the Cleveland area wants to join me who has a wee one that only needs a booster seat, I'd even be willing to carpool (my son's carseat is installed in the middle of my little Honda, so anything larger than a booster seat won't fit in the back seat with him).


----------

