# Article in the Washington Post about the "Meanest Mom in the World"



## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

Thought I'd share this with you mamas. Someday we may all face a similar situation.

By Monica Hesse
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 11, 2008; Page C01

Yesterday she was the meanest mom on the planet. Today: the coolest.

Jane Hambleton, 48, gained a worshipful parental following when news of a classified ad she'd placed in the Des Moines Register was picked up by the Associated Press. The text of the ad:

"OLDS 1999 Intrigue. Totally uncool parents who obviously don't love teenage son, selling his car. Only driven for three weeks before snoopy mom who needs to get a life found booze under front seat. $3,700/offer. Call meanest mom on the planet."

Sold! Hambleton, a radio DJ in Fort Dodge, Iowa, received some 70 calls from buyers. And other parents. And emergency room workers. And school counselors. And scores of others wanting to congratulate her for being so Dirty Harry awesome.

"I don't think you can print" what Steven, 19, said to his mom, she told the Register. But then they became instantly famous, and by yesterday morning they were appearing on "Good Morning America," which got the television booking wars started, as ABC producer Chad Parks recounted it. "Today" wanted them.

The Hambletons were about to book that when folks from "Oprah Winfrey" called, demanding exclusivity, so the family leaned toward that, mom being a huge Oprah fan. But then Ellen DeGeneres called.

And while Mom likes Oprah, Steven loves Ellen, and Mom was inclined to give this one to her son, considering she had taken away his car and all.

They were going back to Iowa to sort it all out, and were unreachable yesterday.

All of which proved one thing: America needed this. Oh boy, did we need this kind of tough love, the kind that says, "I am not your friend. I am your mother. Eat your peas. Now."

The kind that says, "I don't care what the other mothers are doing. I am not buying a pony keg for your party, even if I take away the keys to make sure your friends don't drive home plastered."

For the record, Steven, a student at Briar Cliff University in Sioux City, told his mother that the alcohol in the car did not belong to him, but to a friend. For the record, Hambleton believed him. Nonetheless, it violated one of the two rules she'd set forth when she bought him the car at Thanksgiving: No Booze, and Keep It Locked.

Steven was originally "very, very unhappy," the Register reported, but he and mom seem to have patched things up. It's amazing what a free trip to New York can do.

As for the car, it was purchased by another couple in Iowa who planned to give it to their 19-year-old son. Hambleton told the Register: "I told the kid when they were leaving, 'Do not have any booze in that car. And if you do, don't hide it under the front seat.' "


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I saw this on CNN. I sure hope that by the time my kids are 19, I won't be in charge of whether or not they have alcohol in their car! Am I wrong to hope for that?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

he's 19? He's old enough to die for his country, vote, get married and his mom did this....wow!

Now taking the car back if not having alcohol in it was a condition of her giving it to him, absolutely..the ad though...way over the top.

He's 19...wow..I am thinking of my dd's boyfriend who turned 19 in December..I can't imagine his parents taking an ad out like that. But he seems so grown up at 19, works full time etc.

Seriously...at 19...he should be self-regulating don't you think?

and alcohol and driving are really serious things in my mind..yet I still think it was a bit much..oh well, who knows what the history is there. But if she's been tough-lovin' him all along and he's 19 and he's still hiding booze in the car..I am not so sure that's proof it's working. LOL

Something about this doesn't sit right with me. I guess the kids will be ok with it when he gets to meet Ellen. I think if she meant it as a punishment..it's actually kind of backfired. LOL..bet he's having the time of his life!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
Seriously...at 19...he should be self-regulating don't you think?


Yep! Glad to have someone with older kids agree with me!


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## northwoods1995 (Nov 17, 2003)

My kids are still young but I have 12 nieces and nephews (11 are teenagers or into their early 20's).

I don't have any problem with the mother selling the car but I think the ad was obnoxious and attention-seeking and I don't support that part of what she did at all.

However, the subject of drinking and driving is especially emotional for me as I've lost a loved one, a family friend, and a close friend of mine b/c of drunken driving.


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## guestmama9944 (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
Oh boy, did we need this kind of tough love, the kind that says, "I am not your friend. I am your mother. Eat your peas. Now."

I'm still learning about GD but this doesn't give me the warm-fuzzies.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.

My 8yo and I watched the clip together, and first words out of his mouth were "she's not mean! That was a serious rule he broke!"

Given, this is the child of a man who has had a DUI and got to see all the lovely things that came about. An 18yo, which this boy was when it happened, doesn't always look farther than the end of his nose. Mom bought the car, mom's name was probably still on the car, and if this kept her son out of a lot more serious trouble, well, I can't fault her for it. I don't know if I would have reacted the same way or bit my lip and said nothing, but having the money and my child's life invested in such a weighty decision, I probably would not have said nothing. There were two rules of use, both very reasonable, and the son neglected BOTH rules.

If it were my child, he could earn the money for his own car so he could appreciate it better and be more responsible. I don't believe in handing everything to kids just because that lack of investment often means lack of care.


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## BiscuitBaby (Nov 21, 2007)

If the car is in her name and he was in an accident because of a DUI, could she be financially responsible? Nobody would come after the kid, but I am sure they would sue the parents.

I see it as protecting themselves financially and also protecting others from her child's irresponsible behaivor. If he wants to drink and drive, not follow house rules, then he should be living on his own.

Do you know how many times cops find drugs, alcohol or weapons in a car and people say it isn't theirs? Probably the same in this stuation. If it wasn't his alcohol, he should have told his friend to get rid of it so his parents would not think it was his.

I know people under 21 drink, but drinking and driving can kill someone, if not whole families on the road. I think more parents should be strict with their children in a situation like this, but without the silly ad and media circus. You broke the rules, you can't be trusted, the car is gone. Pretty simple. She is not withholding basic necessities like food, water, shelter. A car is a privelidge and can be taken away.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.

I agree with this. I disagree with the ad.


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## shllywlly (Sep 20, 2007)

My first thought was the son put the ad out. Maybe that was also part of the punishment; he had to sell the car.

I totally agree with what she did. My kids are gonna have to work to at least pay for part of their car. Our plan is to match what they earn. However, drinking and driving is not an option. My DH's grandmother was killed by a drunk driver and a very close family of mine was killed by a drunk driver. That is an absolute unacceptable decision. There is to be no alcohol in any car regardless of who is driving and who paid for it.

I don't think that disregards GD at all. The rules were established when he got the car, (a privilege), when he broke the rules, then he loses the car. It's not unnecessary punishment. I think it fit the crime so to speak.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.

ITA. Love the ad, love the parenting style.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.









: He was free to reject the car if he didn't like the guidelines, right? Part of being a responsible adult is deciding what you can live with in a deal and accepting or not accordingly.

I don't like the ad because it kind of stinks of shaming. It's apparently good marketing, though.


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## MrsBear (Jan 10, 2008)

For what it's worth, I would have done the same. While I don't agree with our nation's stance on drinking ages, I am 100% opposed to drinking while driving. I did rescue work in college and saw the consequences of drunken driving too often to let my child take such a stupid risk. It's bad enough others are driving drunk! But, I think the intent to shame and humiliate behind the ad was damaging to that relationship.


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## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

Selling the car was a good idea. I would not do the talk shows
Susan


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## lovesdaffodils (Jul 11, 2007)

I'm fine with her selling the car if that was the agreement when she bought the car for her son. The ad and the publicity seem like purposely shaming him though, and I'm not cool with that.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susan Kunkel* 
Selling the car was a good idea. I would not do the talk shows
Susan









It sounds like the kiddo is into it. He is angling for Ellen.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.

Yup, exactly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
ITA. Love the ad, love the parenting style.









Yup to this, too.


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## rainbringer (Dec 2, 2007)

I can understand why the mom would sell the car. The ad seems insulting, but it's hard to know, maybe the son thought it was funny too.

I didn't like the Washington Post article and the idea that what the mom did was wonderful, and all parents should be more like that.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I think it is impossible to judge this ad from the outside. To me, it looks like public humiliation; I would have wanted to DIE if my parents ran an ad like that! But this son seems to be handling it well (although he was understandably upset about losing his car). I imagine they have a pretty solid relationship, and this kind of humor is common and appreciated in their home.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I don't get the 'spare his widdle feelings' talk here really. This is a 19 year old whose mama bought him a car. Instead of being responsible he had bloody alcohol under the front seat! This is not a minor infraction... this is alcohol under the front seat of a vehicle!!! Scary, big stuff, man.

I would want my kid to know: You pull something that hardcore after I buy you a car, you are going to be sorry. Lose the car yes, and mama might put an ad in the paper telling the truth to sell it. Don't cross mama!!! Not on a big huge deal like that. I won't be following my child around grovelling for their understanding and good behaviour. Car gets yanked and there is no telling what creative and potentially horrifying thing mama might do if you pull that crap.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Lose the car yes, and mama might put an ad in the paper telling the truth to sell it. .

Right. But, telling the truth can be done in a staightforward way, or in a mocking way. She chose a mocking way.

But, again, the son seems to have a thick skin about it. And he is an adult, technically....not a little kid. It has been shown here on the GD board _many_ times that GD moms are willing to mock adults in ways that they would never mock children!


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Right. But, telling the truth can be done in a staightforward way, or in a mocking way. She chose a mocking way.

For me it's an element of 'pull that sh!t and your mama gone GET you!!' Which I am into, for serious stuff when a child should know better. I think a bit of 'don't cross mama' fear can be a very healthy thing. Not too much fear mind you, but a balance. Sometimes I feel we get pressured to treat children like they have eggshell psyches, no matter what ridiculous drama they pull. I want my child to know BOTH things: I adore her unconditionally and I will always be there for her, AND don't act like an utter







or you will face the mama, and you do not want to face the mama.

Kwim?

Quote:

But, again, the son seems to have a thick skin about it. And he is an adult, technically....not a little kid. It has been shown here on the GD board _many_ times that GD moms are willing to mock adults in ways that they would never mock children!








Very true.


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## pleasantstreets (Jun 10, 2005)

I thought it was a funny, tongue-in-cheek ad, where she was probably parroting back exactly what he'd said to her (perhaps as he slammed a few doors?) when they discussed it. Is it GD, perhaps not, but then, nowhere does she say she is a GD follower...

Also, lots of parents (particularly of "too cool for school" teenagers) make jokes out of how horribly "uncool" they are... that's very familiar joking to me...

Also, how shaming was the ad when it didn't include his name or any other identifying information? I imagine anyone who would have recognized him by the phone number alone would probably already have known about the car incident, and anyone else wouldn't have known which teen it was referring to.

So yeah, maybe not what you would do, but not exactly time to call DSS either... lol!


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think it's GD.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I think the entire response by the mom was brilliantly executed. And the ad sounds just like something my 18 year old brother would write.


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## purple_kangaroo (Feb 20, 2006)

ITA that it was perfectly reasonable of the mom to sell the car since she gave it to him and he broke the ground rules.

I thought the ad was hilarious; it was very tongue-in-cheek and poking fun at herself. If she had printed her son's name in it I would have a problem with it, but she didn't. It was a great marketing tactic, actually. Time and again things sold on eBay or in local papers with that approach seem more likely to sell than just a plain-Jane for sale ad.

But then again, DH and I have been known to chuckle and jokingly say to our very young children, "Oh, yes, your Mommy is SO mean to not give you ice cream for breakfast. What a mean Mommy!" when they are throwing a huge tantrum over not getting something they want.

I guess people here would think it was bad. It usually makes the kids laugh and throws some humor into the situation, for us.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I don't get the 'spare his widdle feelings' talk here really. This is a 19 year old whose mama bought him a car. Instead of being responsible he had bloody alcohol under the front seat! This is not a minor infraction... this is alcohol under the front seat of a vehicle!!! Scary, big stuff, man.

I would want my kid to know: You pull something that hardcore after I buy you a car, you are going to be sorry. Lose the car yes, and mama might put an ad in the paper telling the truth to sell it. Don't cross mama!!! Not on a big huge deal like that. I won't be following my child around grovelling for their understanding and good behaviour. Car gets yanked and there is no telling what creative and potentially horrifying thing mama might do if you pull that crap.

Yeah, but like you said, he's 19! If he's an adult, treat him like an adult. The "meanest mom in the world" crap sounds like a 7th grader. And probably, if she treats him like that, he acts like that.

I really, really hope that when my children ar *19 years old* they know better than to drink and drive. And NOT because they're scared of "crossing mama". I don't think that's GD, at all. That's infantalizing your grown child, and I think it happens too often in this country. If you buy a 19 year old a car, and you attach rules to the ownership of the car, you might as well expect that he will a) break them, and that b) you're going to have to enforce them. I just hope to be done with that by the time they're 19, for God's sake!


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Yeah, but like you said, he's 19! If he's an adult, treat him like an adult. The "meanest mom in the world" crap sounds like a 7th grader. And probably, if she treats him like that, he acts like that.

I don't know about that. He lives with her. She bought him a car. He thought it was smart to drive around with alcohol in the car which, besides being against her rules, is illegal. It doesn't sound like he's functioning as an adult.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I don't know about that. He lives with her. She bought him a car. He thought it was smart to drive around with alcohol in the car which, besides being against her rules, is illegal. It doesn't sound like he's functioning as an adult.

I


You are right, he isn't functioning as an adult. As a parent I kind of hope that my kids are. Of course there are not guarantees. But I will not be buying them a car either, particularly if they are not showing signs of being mature enough to handle it and if a condition of the gift is that they not drink and drive. I think I would need to have knowledge that they definitely would not do such a thing. I would have to be able to TRUST them..so the threat of taking the car if they had alcohol in it would be unnecessary.

Of course we would have that dialogue if a child of mine were purchasing a car anyway..we will have it and have had that conversation many many times.

If they were attending school we might purchase another family car for them to use to commute. Of course there would be conditions on that since it wouldn't belong to the child, just a loan.

I think if you are not responsible enough to work, earn the money, save some and buy yourself a car then you probably shouldn't have one. I think something that is that big of a responsibility should be earned oneself. Not a gift.

And I have no sympathy for the kid. He screwed up big time and he deserved to have the car taken away.

The problem I have with this is that if he had bought the car himself and she discovered alcohol in it what would she have done?

If you parent by fear and threats then if the kid finds a way to provide himself with the privilege without the parent then you lose all your leverage.

I feel it's better from the get-go to use discipline methods that will work from 3-23...communication, a strong relationship, and modelling and being the type of person you want your child to emulate.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
If you parent by fear and threats then if the kid finds a way to provide himself with the privilege without the parent then you lose all your leverage.

I feel it's better from the get-go to use discipline methods that will work from 3-23...communication, a strong relationship, and modelling and being the type of person you want your child to emulate.

ITA. And, I know it's easy for me to say this now as my kids are 4, 2, and 1, but if my child was 19 and I wanted them to have a car, I would buy them a car and give it to them as a gift. Like I would give anyone else a gift, with no strings or lectures attached. Because it seems like at some point you have to let go. It's really kind of ironic that she was being touted as some super-tough mom. Where are the people deriding her for babying her son for too long? Come on, editorialists!


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## MsElle07 (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I don't get the 'spare his widdle feelings' talk here really. This is a 19 year old whose mama bought him a car. Instead of being responsible he had bloody alcohol under the front seat! This is not a minor infraction... this is alcohol under the front seat of a vehicle!!! Scary, big stuff, man.

I would want my kid to know: You pull something that hardcore after I buy you a car, you are going to be sorry. Lose the car yes, and mama might put an ad in the paper telling the truth to sell it. Don't cross mama!!! Not on a big huge deal like that. I won't be following my child around grovelling for their understanding and good behaviour. Car gets yanked and there is no telling what creative and potentially horrifying thing mama might do if you pull that crap.

ITA. Would I hope my son would be functioning as a mature adult at age 19? I sure do. Is that reality for the majority of 19 year old males? Clearly not. Would I do anything to keep my child from killing himself and others with his irresponsible behavior? Pretty much. Because if I didn't, and something were to happen to him, I would never feel comforted by the fact that, "I parented him to be an adult at age 19, and I gave him a gift with no strings attached."

If I give my child money for college and he uses it for cocaine, I'd have a problem with that. Sometimes there should be conditions on things that are given to others.


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## Ok (Feb 6, 2004)

I respect the boundaries-consequence connection. I assume the parent/s bought the car and carry the insurance on it. Child agreed to terms of use. Child broke the agreement. Car gets sold. I like the ad. I think it is funny.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I feel it's better from the get-go to use discipline methods that will work from 3-23...communication, a strong relationship, and modelling and being the type of person you want your child to emulate.

I agree, but there's really no evidence that they don't have that kind of relationship. Perhaps he agreed to the guidelines that she set out and then didn't follow through on his end, so she followed through on the previously agreed consequence.

I make deals with my kid all the time and have done since he was very little. Doing so is an important part of guiding a child into adulthood, IMO. When we make deals, if he doesn't follow through, there are consequences (either agreed upon consequences, lack of performance on my part if my performing was conditioned upon his performing, and/or the result that I won't make a similar deal with him in the future until I feel like he can follow through). Likewise, if I don't follow through, I expect the same result from him. There are no threats involved - just an agreement between two people and the natural outcomes of that agreement. And there's no guilt involved when things don't go as agreed.

I'd like to think that, at 19, my kid will have a solid enough head on his shoulders that I won't have to condition his use of the family car (because I probably won't be buying him one either) on his agreeing not to transport alcohol in it. There are no guarantees, of course. And the fact that he can just buy his own car has nothing to do with whether or not I have those guidelines for the use of my property. What's important is that he understands them and agrees to be bound by them as long as he's using something that belongs to me. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting parameters on the usage of something that belongs to you, particularly where it can present a safety issue or result in a criminal record.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I don't get the 'spare his widdle feelings' talk here really. This is a 19 year old whose mama bought him a car. Instead of being responsible he had bloody alcohol under the front seat! This is not a minor infraction... this is alcohol under the front seat of a vehicle!!! Scary, big stuff, man.

I would want my kid to know: You pull something that hardcore after I buy you a car, you are going to be sorry. Lose the car yes, and mama might put an ad in the paper telling the truth to sell it. Don't cross mama!!! Not on a big huge deal like that. I won't be following my child around grovelling for their understanding and good behaviour. Car gets yanked and there is no telling what creative and potentially horrifying thing mama might do if you pull that crap.









He knew what would happen. Every parent and cop has heard the alcohol/pot/stolen merchandise "isn't mine".







Drinking and driving is very serious. Mom may have saved a life here. She is much more GD than the justice system would have been.


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## Elvirnon (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
"OLDS 1999 Intrigue. Totally uncool parents who obviously don't love teenage son, selling his car. Only driven for three weeks before snoopy mom who needs to get a life found booze under front seat. $3,700/offer. Call meanest mom on the planet."


Quote:

"I don't think you can print" what Steven, 19, said to his mom, she told the Register.
Based on these the wording of the ad and this quote, it sounds like the son unleashed a barrage of insults when mom enforced the terms of their agreement. If the extent of the mother's "shaming" is the inclusion, in the ad, of some of the words her son used against her, then I think it's ridiculous that she's being taken to task for not being gentle enough. There's a point at which parents should not be expected to tiptoe around their adult childrens' potentially hurt feelings, and I think that this kid pushed things well beyond that point. Somehow I doubt that his delicate psyche has been irreparably crushed by this ad.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
he's 19? He's old enough to die for his country, vote, get married and his mom did this....wow!

Now taking the car back if not having alcohol in it was a condition of her giving it to him, absolutely..the ad though...way over the top.

He's 19...wow..I am thinking of my dd's boyfriend who turned 19 in December..I can't imagine his parents taking an ad out like that. But he seems so grown up at 19, works full time etc.

Seriously...at 19...he should be self-regulating don't you think?

and alcohol and driving are really serious things in my mind..yet I still think it was a bit much..oh well, who knows what the history is there. But if she's been tough-lovin' him all along and he's 19 and he's still hiding booze in the car..I am not so sure that's proof it's working. LOL

Something about this doesn't sit right with me. I guess the kids will be ok with it when he gets to meet Ellen. I think if she meant it as a punishment..it's actually kind of backfired. LOL..bet he's having the time of his life!

He's obviously not "self-regulating" enough to do the following:

1. Observe the law.
Not for one minute do I believe it was a friend whose booze it was.

2. Cover his butt

3. Live on his own

4. BUY HIS OWN CAR

A person may be 19, but that doesn't stop him from being a child.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
I disagree, she bought him the car to begin with and laid down the rules. He broke the rules, he does not deserve the free car.

Sounds like pretty natural consequences to me. If a cop had pulled him over, the punishment would have been far worse, don't you think?


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Yeah, but like you said, he's 19! *If he's an adult, treat him like an adult*. The "meanest mom in the world" crap sounds like a 7th grader. And probably, if she treats him like that, he acts like that.

He's not an adult. Legally in some respects, yes; behaviorally, he's still about twelve. He is a child, and she's treating him accordingly.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

I don't necessarily have problem with the selling of the car or the ad. I agree with what someone said above, without knowing the family it's hard to tell if this equated to humiliation and a pattern of patronizing and disrespect or whether it's more in line with the family's sense of humor.

What makes my skin crawl, is this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 

...

All of which proved one thing: America needed this. Oh boy, did we need this kind of tough love, the kind that says, "I am not your friend. I am your mother. Eat your peas. Now."

The kind that says...

...


It's the whole _parents today_ whiny garbage. "The problem with kids today.." etc. often combined with the euphoric nostaglia of "us" as kids, a la "we would never have dreamed of such things as kids, thanks to good old-fashoioned discipline."

And I fear that it induces parents to be self-conscious, particularly in public, and likely to come down on kids just to prove to a potential judging bystander that they're not too cushy and easy on their kids. It's unfortunate, and I've seen it happen more times than I can count. I just hate to see the article feeding that atmosphere.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
He's not an adult. Legally in some respects, yes; behaviorally, he's still about twelve. He is a child, and she's treating him accordingly.

Are the 19 yos that I know just really immature? He sounds like a typical 19 yo to me









IME, 19 yos in the US--especially boys--are still pretty immature. My dad says that boys don't really grow up until they are closer to 25


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *easy_goer* 
What makes my skin crawl, is this:

_It's the whole parents today whiny garbage. "The problem with kids today.." etc. often combined with the euphoric nostaglia of "us" as kids, a la "we would never have dreamed of such things as kids, thanks to good old-fashoioned discipline."_


I totally agree.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
IME, 19 yos in the US--especially boys--are still pretty immature. My dad says that boys don't really grow up until they are closer to 25









IME, more like 35-40.







:


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

The ad cracked me up.

I didn't really think of it as a discipline issue, or even a mother-son issue, though. More of a "fed up with a family member" thing.

Healthy? No, probably not. Still made me laugh.


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## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:

Are the 19 yos that I know just really immature? He sounds like a typical 19 yo to me

IME, 19 yos in the US--especially boys--are still pretty immature. My dad says that boys don't really grow up until they are closer to 25

I am interested that you mentioned the US. Why are kids in the
US so slow to mature?

I'm seeing a huge disparity between the maturity of modern teens
and teens of decades, and centuries past. It bothers me allot.


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## wildmama (Feb 23, 2002)

Maybe it's the area I live in, but I see so much permissive parenting on a daily basis, I was inclined to agree with the "I'm your parent, not your friend" tone of the article. I am all for being your kids' friend once you are on an equal playing field-- i.e. you are both independent adults. To me, the ad the mom placed shows a banter-y kind of relationship with the son-- you can extrapolate that the son said some of those things to her, and at this point, they both see the ridiculousness in the comments. I don't see anything wrong with it. And I don't see anything wrong with parents making a distinction between themselves and their children. I have always felt that while my children are due just as much respect and consideration as any adult, they shouldn't be given the same freedoms and responsibilities as adults because they are CHILDREN. If the mom in this article made a mistake, it was not knowing her kid well enough to know he would break her rules. I mean, it is kind of odd that both the rules she gave him, he broke. She seemed to know what would be issues, and if those were rules she had to make for him, it just kind of shows he wasn't ready to have the responsibility of a car. I mean really what does show you are ready to have a car is ummm...being able to buy, insure and maintain it and keep your activities within legal on your own, doesn't it?

oh, just thinking out loud.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
He is a child, and she's treating him accordingly.

I wonder which is the egg and which is the chicken? I wonder what he would have learned more from, being given a car with conditions from the "meanest mom in the world", or being given a car as a no-strings-attached gift and then gotten a DUI or a minor in possession violation.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I'm seeing a huge disparity between the maturity of modern teens
and teens of decades, and centuries past. It bothers me allot.


I too am very bothered by this. I have a nephew...age 20 years old...nicest kid you ever met...absolutely and completely dependant upon his mother..no job, no highschool diploma, sits in the basement on the internet.

She has taken him all over for medical examinations..they find nothing wrong. Naturopaths..nothing wrong.

My father went on a fishing schooner to Labrador when he was 11 and his brother was 10..I think this was a bit extreme but that was the way it was 60plus years ago. More recently..my brother fished with my father when he was a teenager and made his own living, saved money, finished school and is problably borderline work-a-holic. His son, now 11, sits in front of a tv screen or video game and is not doing well in school, can barely get him moving to eat dinner.

I think kids need responsibility and jobs. We are so quick to praise a child for something like brushing their teeth...'yay, good teethbrushing' that they are not developing an accurate sense of what's actually praise-worthy.

Self esteem comes from doing something well and knowing from within that you did something well..yeah, you may double check with a trusted parent "what do you think of what I did" because kids need feedback.

I don't think it's about permissiveness...it's about ineffectiveness.

Parents just don't know what to do.









and the world is so different.

I think we need to stop giving kids stuff and start making them earn things. Seriously earn things.

and we need to show them the difference between responsibility and work as well. They expect to get paid for making their own bed :eyeroll.

Well actually, mine don't but they will tell me how their friends mom gives them a $1 a day if they make their beds etc. I have a problem with that.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I'm seeing a huge disparity between the maturity of modern teens
and teens of decades, and centuries past. It bothers me allot.


I think it has a lot to do with people delaying marriage and family, and college being the norm. Generations ago, and currently in many cultures, a person had/has family responsibilities at 18. In the US, however, late teens and 20s are still years of freedom, exploration, and self-focus.

I also agree with a lot that Allgirls said above.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
I wonder which is the egg and which is the chicken? I wonder what he would have learned more from, being given a car with conditions from the "meanest mom in the world", or *being given a car as a no-strings-attached gift and then gotten a DUI or a minor in possession violation*.

The second is not a lesson I would want anyone to have to have.

You talk about getting a DUI - take that one step further and talk about killing another person because he was too drunk to drive. Is that a good lesson? Is it worth the next umpteen years of jail, heartache, and lost lives because of not having it stopped before it started? All because of being only 18 and not really thinking things all the way through. After all, at 18 a person is invincible. They know everything, nothing can hurt them.

I mean, if something as serious and life-changing as a DUI could be prevented, why, as a parent, wouldn't you do what you can to prevent it? In this case, it meant setting ground rules AND then when it didn't work, removing the temptation for such.

I have had two friends killed by drunk drivers and I married/divorced a recovering alcoholic. I cannot believe that there are people that think that someone getting a DUI is a good alternative to PREVENTIVE MEASURES.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *easy_goer* 
I don't necessarily have problem with the selling of the car or the ad. I agree with what someone said above, without knowing the family it's hard to tell if this equated to humiliation and a pattern of patronizing and disrespect or whether it's more in line with the family's sense of humor.

What makes my skin crawl, is this:

It's the whole _parents today_ whiny garbage. "The problem with kids today.." etc. often combined with the euphoric nostaglia of "us" as kids, a la "we would never have dreamed of such things as kids, thanks to good old-fashoioned discipline."

And I fear that it induces parents to be self-conscious, particularly in public, and likely to come down on kids just to prove to a potential judging bystander that they're not too cushy and easy on their kids. It's unfortunate, and I've seen it happen more times than I can count. I just hate to see the article feeding that atmosphere.

Yeah this. I agree with the moms rules. I don't really care about the ad either way. It's funny and I hope it taught the kid a lesson.

I think she's getting way too much attention for this though. There are plenty of good loving parents that raise wonderful thoughtful kids. Shes not some sort of revolutionary that deserves the admiration of a nation.


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

I applaud this woman wholeheartedly.

Note, the ad did not have a name on it. Presumably, people found out who she was by calling the number and asking. I wonder, though, whether she disclosed a name without permission from her son -- and I tend to doubt it -- because, despite the "unprintable" things he said when she sold the car, they seem to have a pretty healthy relationship. This is in an entirely different class from that story circulating a few months ago where a mother made her teenaged son clean litter from the streets wearing a sandwich ad explaining that he was being punished for cutting classes (or whatever it was for). That's public humiliation. Here, especially since the mother freely says she trusts her son, I don't see that angle. Is it publicly humiliating to have people know that you let a friend keep alcohol in your car?


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## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:

I too am very bothered by this. I have a nephew...age 20 years old...nicest kid you ever met...absolutely and completely dependant upon his mother..no job, no highschool diploma, sits in the basement on the internet.

She has taken him all over for medical examinations..they find nothing wrong. Naturopaths..nothing wrong.

My father went on a fishing schooner to Labrador when he was 11 and his brother was 10..I think this was a bit extreme but that was the way it was 60plus years ago. More recently..my brother fished with my father when he was a teenager and made his own living, saved money, finished school and is problably borderline work-a-holic. His son, now 11, sits in front of a tv screen or video game and is not doing well in school, can barely get him moving to eat dinner.

I think kids need responsibility and jobs. We are so quick to praise a child for something like brushing their teeth...'yay, good teethbrushing' that they are not developing an accurate sense of what's actually praise-worthy.

Self esteem comes from doing something well and knowing from within that you did something well..yeah, you may double check with a trusted parent "what do you think of what I did" because kids need feedback.

I don't think it's about permissiveness...it's about ineffectiveness.

Parents just don't know what to do.

and the world is so different.

I think we need to stop giving kids stuff and start making them earn things. Seriously earn things.

and we need to show them the difference between responsibility and work as well. They expect to get paid for making their own bed :eyeroll.

Well actually, mine don't but they will tell me how their friends mom gives them a $1 a day if they make their beds etc. I have a problem with that.
Yeah i agree, i think that is what i meant when i said we infantalize
teens in another thread.

I would love to brainstorm ideas on this issue, i dont want
to thread jack.


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

I think she's a pretty stupid mom for not knowing her son well enough to know he might drink and wasn't mature enough to buy a car for. Or to not make him buy his own car. And then go all sarcastic on his ass when he does what many immature 19 year olds, hell, many 35-year olds do.

It's so easy to always blame the teens. If this happened to me and I was the kid, I would respond just like him. If I was the mom, I'd be deeply ashamed of my lacklustre insight into my own kid.

Yeah, teens of decades and centuries past were more responsible. And so are the teens who fight in Iraq and make carpets in India?


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg Murry.* 
He's obviously not "self-regulating" enough to do the following:

1. Observe the law.
Not for one minute do I believe it was a friend whose booze it was.

2. Cover his butt

3. Live on his own

4. BUY HIS OWN CAR

A person may be 19, but that doesn't stop him from being a child.

ITA with this. I can't imagine being in a psoition to buy any of my kids a car at any time- but they would have to be more responsible than that for me to consider it- so responsible I wouldn't consider making "no booze" a stipulation as I could tell they knew better. Addded if it was in her name she was just covering her butt.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I don't have a problem with it, based on the limited information we have. If he was living on his own and he'd bought himself the car, I'd feel differently. I don't think 19 vs. 18 (many kids are still in high school at 18) is a big enough difference to get obsessive about the "But he's an ADULT" thing.


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## robynlyn80 (Jun 18, 2006)

neurological studies show that brains aren't fully developed until into the 20s. teens are still impulsive, not always logical problem solvers etc etc. 19 IS young.

i was recently reading about the new category of "youth" which falls between teens and young adults. as a pp mentioned, teens don't have to go right to being young adults, although some do. instead of finding a job and supporting a family, 18-22 y/o are having keggers and skipping classes. their parents are paying for college. some even go on to grad school afterwards and are still pretty care free for many years.

i would be willing to bet that the family enjoys a lot of humor together. some families don't function like this- but this one seems to. therefore these teen probably took it in stride and not so much as shaming as maybe it would be in other families.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I can't believe they gave their kid a car. If they gave it on open conditions, they have the right to take it back. However, I can guarantee that I will NEVER be in that position because I will NEVER buy my teenager a car or anything remotely large enough to warrant that kind of attention.

My mom did take away my right to drive her car after I got a speeding ticket once, because it was outside the zone where we agreed I would limit my driving to. I can honestly say I didn't even complain, I was so ashamed at breaking the agreement.

Quote:

1. Observe the law.
Not for one minute do I believe it was a friend whose booze it was.

2. Cover his butt

3. Live on his own

4. BUY HIS OWN CAR
I normally do not like the







smiley but must break it out for this. Meanest mom in the world, my big fat butt. Just wait until my kid is fourteen and has to get a job to buy non-essentials. I hope they invite me to be on Ellen for that!


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
Meanest mom in the world, my big fat butt. Just wait until my kid is fourteen and has to get a job to buy non-essentials. I hope they invite me to be on Ellen for that!











I thought the ad was funny. If my mother had done this I would've felt like she'd forgiven me a bit because at least she could find some humor in a shameful situation. But: I wasn't living with my parents at 19, I had a job and went to school full time, they never bought me a car and I'm better off for it I think.

As for the "I am your mother not your friend" thing. Heck, yes I agree with that. I don't agree with the tone the article used with it but parents are not meant to be friends, children do not have the capacity to make responsible decisions about everything...so yes, "I am your mother, here are some peas, they are delicious."


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## gwynthfair (Mar 17, 2006)

I don't understand why it was public humiliation. Classified ads usually only contain a phone number. She probably did it just to amuse herself and fellow readers.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
The second is not a lesson I would want anyone to have to have.

You talk about getting a DUI - take that one step further and talk about killing another person because he was too drunk to drive. Is that a good lesson? Is it worth the next umpteen years of jail, heartache, and lost lives because of not having it stopped before it started? All because of being only 18 and not really thinking things all the way through. After all, at 18 a person is invincible. They know everything, nothing can hurt them.

I mean, if something as serious and life-changing as a DUI could be prevented, why, as a parent, wouldn't you do what you can to prevent it? In this case, it meant setting ground rules AND then when it didn't work, removing the temptation for such.

I have had two friends killed by drunk drivers and I married/divorced a recovering alcoholic. I cannot believe that there are people that think that someone getting a DUI is a good alternative to PREVENTIVE MEASURES.

Well, yeah, but you can't really remove the temptation, unless you're going to lock him in the basement or something. There's still a good chance that he could drive his friend's car or walk to a party and get drunk. I have had friends killed by drunk drivers, too, and I've had friends who were the drunk drivers killing people. I agree it's a horrible thing to happen. My point is that if you continue to baby a 19 year old by taking away his car or setting rules for his car or searching his car for liquor or whatever, your 19 year old will continue to act like a child. They will want to assert their independence and test their boundaries, and differentiate themselves from their parents and they might do stupid, stupid sh*t in the process. But a 19 year old who is responsible for themselves is hopefully less likely to do those things. Right? I don't know, I have to admit I did do some stupid things when I was 19, but I also dealt with the consequences all by myself, and I learned from them pretty quickly, luckily.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Well, yeah, but you can't really remove the temptation, unless you're going to lock him in the basement or something. There's still a good chance that he could drive his friend's car or walk to a party and get drunk. I have had friends killed by drunk drivers, too, and I've had friends who were the drunk drivers killing people. I agree it's a horrible thing to happen. My point is that if you continue to baby a 19 year old by taking away his car or setting rules for his car or searching his car for liquor or whatever, your 19 year old will continue to act like a child. They will want to assert their independence and test their boundaries, and differentiate themselves from their parents and they might do stupid, stupid sh*t in the process. But a 19 year old who is responsible for themselves is hopefully less likely to do those things. Right? I don't know, I have to admit I did do some stupid things when I was 19, but I also dealt with the consequences all by myself, and I learned from them pretty quickly, luckily.


And how do you know this person wasn't just on an extended parenting plan? Not everyone gets things at the same time, therefore not all parents should treat their children the same. The boy was 18 when this happened, according to both he and his mother on the news program I watched, and a young 18 at that. I don't think a first car coming with strings is an unreasonable act, especially when the mother has to lay down rules like she did. It was a learning moment.

He's 19 now, and I'm sure he learned something from it without needing to kill someone in the process, as you seem to think would have been a viable option in "teaching him a lesson".


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## Elvirnon (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
My point is that if you continue to baby a 19 year old by taking away his car or setting rules for his car or searching his car for liquor or whatever, your 19 year old will continue to act like a child.

I would agree with you if it were actually his car, one that he bought and insured with his own money, for which he alone is legally responsible. But I think that in this case, where the "babying" includes giving him the use of a car that he doesn't own, it's reasonable to set and enforce rules. If this 19 year old is bent on asserting his independence, he can get himself a job that enables him to pay his own transportation expenses.


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## BettyOkinoRulz (May 2, 2007)

I agree with her taking the car. I disagree with the ad. Had that been me, I would have sued her and the newspaper for violating my privacy. Since son is not a public figure they had no right to run that ad. Then I'd take the money, move out of my mom's house, and buy my own car.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I am interested that you mentioned the US. Why are kids in the
US so slow to mature?

I'm seeing a huge disparity between the maturity of modern teens
and teens of decades, and centuries past. It bothers me allot.

Because they are imprisoned in school, not allowed to do meaningful work, not allowed to play outside and have adventures, and told they are children.

I am not going to be "disciplining" my 19 year old son. I respect him more at 2 than most people seem to respect their kids at 10.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20; predictions, not so good.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
Because they are imprisoned in school,

Wow. Okay.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Eeeek.

I'm skeptical of the whole "it's just in good fun" and "this is a family who is fun-loving and teasing" argument. I think for that dynamic to really work (in a non-hurtful way), there must be a level of trust and respect in a family. It seems clear that the trust isn't there in this case. And the ad sounds very disrespectful to me.

I'm also annoyed by the "this is what the country needs" mentality. Sigh. Isn't this what "we" have been doing. Aren't punitive and spanking disciplines pretty much the norm now and for the past few generations? If that's worked so well, then how are we now at this hand-wringing "these kids today" stage?

I just think there are so many other respectful and productive ways that a parent could handle a situation where alcohol is found in a teen's car. To do what these folks did seems so out there to me. I certainly don't think it's doing positive things for the family's relationships and I doubt it's sending the message to this young man that they intend.


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