# Where do you put your toddler for "time out?"



## zulupetalz (Jun 17, 2006)

We recently had our second child and our almost 2 year old son has started acting out more (hitting, kicking, etc.) I've read that you aren't supposed to use their crib as a time out space. I tried the pack and play instead, but I put him in it yesterday and he had pulled the mattress out of the bottom and was chuckling to himself. What do most of you do?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela


----------



## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

I don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area." For example, DD gets mad and throws a rock at (usually the dog). If I don't intercept the rock first, I will go to her, pick her up and say "hurt lillie (dog)". I try not to say "do not throw rocks" because all she will hear is "THROW ROCKS." I will take her to her room and set her down and say "Rocks hurt Lillie". and stay with her for about a minute. Then I bring her back in the room and say once again, "rocks hurt Lillie". It usually works 9 out of 10 times and she is off to hug the poor dog and play with something else. I may save time out for when she is older, like 5. At this age, reasoning does not work because they have low capacity to feel true empathy because of the frontal lobe development. They don't usually give a crap that they just bit you, they only care that you pissed them off. They are completely self serving and think the world is out to serve them...completely normal and acceptable. Putting them in timeout now usually only increases their tantrums and will make them even more frustrated 3 year olds. Adults have the luxury of feeling all these emotions and having an outlet...I get pissed off at my husband and I can complain about it at work. If I am anxious or scared about something, I can go to my mom or my friends or my husband. Toddlers feel all these emotions and HAVE NO OTHER OUTLET THAN You. So YOU are the one they are in love with, their friend, their enemy, their coworker, their boss, their lifeline, etc. I think the key to maintaining their behaviors when they are acting out is short, and to the point redirection. Anything more is just going to cause a meltdown.


----------



## zulupetalz (Jun 17, 2006)

" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.


----------



## zulupetalz (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela


Um. Ok, then. What do you recommend for that type of behavior?


----------



## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zulupetalz* 
" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.

Could you say "gentle, gentle" instead? Rather than focusing on what you don't want him to do, focus on the behavior that you want to encourage. Have him pet the baby nicely, and say "gentle. oh, the baby loves it when you are gentle." It also sounds like he might need some "Time in" with you, without the baby around. Maybe in the evenings your partner could spend time with the baby while you and your son do a "mama and big boy" thing.

and, your kids are so cute!


----------



## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I agree w/ the PP that 2 is WAY too young for timeouts!!

We do cool down time for my son. We started at maybe 4? 4 1/2? He has some sensory issues so we have a quiet place in the living room w/ a big old beanbag chair, books, some handheld water toys and other sensory minded toys. When he is getting wound up/out of control he can go there and refocus himself.

For your young one I think you just need to keep modeling and talking about proper behavior. If he hits his sibling you need to redirect him and keep telling him "Hitting hurts. We do not hit." It is more about creating a safe environment for all parties. Also make sure he gets plenty of one on one time with you too. That can help a lot.


----------



## Selesai (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KylieLove06* 
I don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area." For example, DD gets mad and throws a rock at (usually the dog). If I don't intercept the rock first, I will go to her, pick her up and say "hurt lillie (dog)". I try not to say "do not throw rocks" because all she will hear is "THROW ROCKS." I will take her to her room and set her down and say "Rocks hurt Lillie". and stay with her for about a minute. Then I bring her back in the room and say once again, "rocks hurt Lillie". It usually works 9 out of 10 times and she is off to hug the poor dog and play with something else. I may save time out for when she is older, like 5. At this age, reasoning does not work because they have low capacity to feel true empathy because of the frontal lobe development. They don't usually give a crap that they just bit you, they only care that you pissed them off. They are completely self serving and think the world is out to serve them...completely normal and acceptable. Putting them in timeout now usually only increases their tantrums and will make them even more frustrated 3 year olds. Adults have the luxury of feeling all these emotions and having an outlet...I get pissed off at my husband and I can complain about it at work. If I am anxious or scared about something, I can go to my mom or my friends or my husband. Toddlers feel all these emotions and HAVE NO OTHER OUTLET THAN You. So YOU are the one they are in love with, their friend, their enemy, their coworker, their boss, their lifeline, etc. I think the key to maintaining their behaviors when they are acting out is short, and to the point redirection. Anything more is just going to cause a meltdown.

This is really interesting info re: their mental development. Where did you learn it?


----------



## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zulupetalz* 
" don't do a "time out" perse. I have started doing a "removal from the area."

Isn't that basically a "time out?" That is what I mean.

Anyhow, that is what my 2 y.o. does, too. When I tell him, "no hitting," he will repeat me over and over again, pretty much while he continues to hit me. I feel like I need to do something else to correct the behavior before he starts hitting my 1 mos old.

Try saying, "that hurts mommy." Positive redirection works a lot better. When I tell DD when we go in a store that has a lot of breakables, "touch nothing," almost 97% of the time she just looks and babbles to me pointing without touching or breaking everything in sight. When I used to say, "don't touch anything," she would reach for everything. I honestly think it was because when I used the negative version of the redirection she only heard "touch anything."
It is not an overnight change, it is frustrating as hell but the consistancy is the cure. Eachtime he does this, try saying, "that hurts mommy." take him to another room that is not as visually stimulating (a boring grown up room) and repeat, "hitting hurts mommy." Take him back in the playroom/living room after a minute or two and say again, "hitting hurts mommy." I guess it can be classified as a time out but it is a together time out and I am with her, verses me fighting her to stay in a corner or in her crib alone and crying...which only makes her madder. I wish I could have video taped the before and after, because I promise it works.


----------



## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

this probably isn't what you want to hear, but what you are describing is fairly normal behavior for a child your ds's age, especially for a toddler that just welcomed a new sibling into the family. this 'acting out' might even escalate over the course of the next few months.

you can either choose to use time outs, which is a form of punishment and control, or you can choose to try to understand and empathize with your little boy who is currently experiencing big emotions and big changes without having the cognitive or communicative abilities to process it.

and as alegna pointed out, a time out for a 2 year old is basically futile. fekfuzz also mentioned some positive techniques to encourage gentle touch as well as to give your ds some time special alone with both you and your partner.

congratulations on the new little one!


----------



## zulupetalz (Jun 17, 2006)

Pretty much everything I have done seems futile, really. I know it is sort of expected given his stage and new sibling, etc. I just feel like, omg, it is getting worse and worse and maybe it is because I am not doing something I should be. YKWIM? When I tell him "no hitting" and "be gentle" and things like that and he continues to hit me, it just feels like I am failing, you know?


----------



## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

I use a chair in the kitchen. I do not think that a "time out" (removal from situation, whatever you want to call it) is inappropriate for a 2yr old, especially one who is hitting and not listening to the "gentle" mantra.


----------



## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selesai* 
This is really interesting info re: their mental development. Where did you learn it?

I will have to find the info. It was presented in several of my human develoment courses in college and interestingly enough, a detailed version of the information in a child abuse investigations/prevention course that I took last November. It was a study that included scans of the toddler brain and an explination of why and how certain behaviors are exhibited at certain times in a child's life. Statistically toddlers experience a higher rate of child abuse and the study delved into why this occured. Most parents who had abused their young children reported that it was their behaviors that made them "beat them" or soak them in a tub of boiling water, or tie them up with a phone cord. The study was used to show that toddler behaviors were more excessive because that was how nature intended it and that a toddler was by nature, narcessistic. Many of the already "at risk" parents don't have the knowledge, patience, or community/family support to learn how to properly deal with the highly "spirited" toddler, and write them off as being a bad child.
Anyway, not to get too much into it, or I will be writing a novel....
Our toddlers, mentally, are like little Hanebal Lectors, and that is OK







. They can show sadness and embarassment and other emotions but it is because they are feeling these emotions for themselves, not for the baby brother or sister, or family pet they just beat with a bat.


----------



## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

I can only speak about my kids, that at almost 2 years old, and even any younger than 4 years old, they would NOT understand what time out was for and it would accomplish absolutely nothing. It was more effective to redirect. Just making them stand in a corner, they wouldn't get it and it would be totaly futile. We did sometimes use what we call "break time" which is I think what Kylielove06 is describing, the difference between this and time out is that you are with them, still interacting with them, even though you remove them from the situation to defuse the building up of emotion, it is not a punishment and you are not leaving them alone, it is just a way to go to a quiet room and cool down *together*.


----------



## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Sounds like very normal behavior to me too. Ds is a few months older than yours, but for a very long time and still once in a while now I need(ed) to repeat "be gentle" over and over. He will get it, it just takes a while. I agree with pp that modeling the behavior is great, showing him exactly what you need/mean for him to do instead of what not to do. Always use the positive like, "be gentle", or "you can throw that rock at the fence", instead of saying something like "no hitting, "no throwing", etc. We also use the phrase "I will not let you hurt me, hitting hurts." If he keeps hitting me/spraying me with water, etc. I remove myself from the situation. Ds has a lot of empathy for me and others, he is very sensitive. Your ds will get there.







Mary


----------



## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I don't think a time out is inappropriate for a 2 year old, we sit our DD who is 18 months down for a "time out" for 1 minute, that is all. It is more of a cool down time for her and for DH and myself. DD is very headstrong and if making her sit down for a second to chill out helps the situation I am all for it. I do other forms of redirection and gentle discipline, but I really believe that sometimes some kids do need that little break, and I will continue to do so.


----------



## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think you would get a lot of useful tools and resources if you posted this same thread over on the Gentle Discipline forum.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

At two they can't really control their impulses and it's not fair to expect them to.

As to what to do instead of a time out- punishment is not the answer. The answer is to of course avoid the situation when possible, redirect, empathize, try to figure out triggers and give appropriate outlets.










-Angela


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

There's a book on infant and child brain development and how parenting choices effect it. It's The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland. It has a section on the harmful effects of using timeouts on toddlers.


----------



## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

At that age, sometimes DD1 and I would go have a "time-in" together. I'd sit her down on the bottom step of our stairway, and sit next to her, and we'd sit together and talk about what happened. I'd do this after she'd had a tantrum or outburst and needed to process what happened. We still do that today, and now sometimes I'll find her sitting there on her own, reading a book or whatever, when she knows she's fried and needs to settle herself.

I like that kind of time out better than a punitive one.


----------



## chelsmm (Apr 10, 2005)

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this, but the book "Easy to Love: Difficult to Discipline" is an awesome book. It might really help you out. We also don't do time outs. If my dd (2 1/2) pushes her brother I say something like "DD, you wanted your brother to move, so you pushed him. Pushing is not ok. Pushing hurts. If you want him to move, say "mama, move db" (the baby is too young to move himself) and I will move him. Try it now."

Occasionally, now that we have been doing this for a week or so, she does use her words, rather than pushing. She's getting it. You need to teach your child what is appropriate, rather than punishing for what's not.

Anyways, I can't explain it all here, but maybe check the book out of a library and read it. It's a super book.


----------



## ryleeee (Feb 9, 2005)

well our son is VERY spirited and sometimes no matter how often we tell him not to do something or re-direct him or explain things to him, he'll look at us with a sly look on his face and do it over and over and over. or he hits kids at the library etc. he's 2! i get that it's normal, but it's still not acceptable.
he gets removed from the situation and we count to ten with him to calm down. by the time we get to 10 he's alright and usually does a lot better. we do this while getting down on his level and looking him in the eyes. at home we use the kitchen chair if he's really not listening, and we get down on his level and count with him. it works well for our family. sometimes if he is wound up or knows he has done something that he probably shouldn't have, he'll start counting by himself to calm down.


----------



## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

I think you have to follow your heart when you choose how to teach your son. Honestly, I know many say that redirection works and that "time out" is inappropriate at that age but only you know your son and if this will work for him. I posted a couple of weeks ago in GD about different things my 13 month old is doing and how I'm trying redirection, all age appropriate, etc. and I didn't get any useful advice, just judgment....

So, I finally told him "no" when he hit another kid in the face. He stopped and looked at me and didn't do it again. I explained that he was hurting the other little one and "please use gently touches"....so far this is working. I will say that I believe telling my son "no" only worked because he is not used to hearing it...and so he understood I was serious.

So, what I'm trying to say is that there are tons of books that will give you all "expert" advice... some useful and some not. Trust your instincts as a mama!!!

GL.


----------



## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryleeee* 
he gets removed from the situation and we count to ten with him to calm down. by the time we get to 10 he's alright and usually does a lot better. we do this while getting down on his level and looking him in the eyes.

That's great! It sounds like a form of "time in" that works really well for you. You're interrupting the behavior, connecting with him, and teaching him strategies for calming HIMSELF when he starts getting upset.










"Time outs" don't really work like that. Ideally, they act like a cooling off period, but when they're imposed externally, in a punitive manner (and who isn't going to be inclined to speaking crossly to their kid who is hurting their baby or their dog?), without connection, that isn't what they do. The child, especially a toddler, is usually left alone and frustrated, without their underlying needs being met. Either they're going to get even more angry or upset, and learn only that their parent doesn't love them/want them (which will make them be inclined to act out even more - and not to say that using time-outs means you DON'T love your kids, just that that is a very common way _kids interpret_ such an act), or they're just going to play in the new space, and learn nothing - which isn't all that bad! Redirection and removal are good strategies for dealing with unacceptable behavior in a two year old, who simply does not (cannot!) have good impulse control yet. But expecting them to seem "remorseful", to have "learned something from the punishment", or that removal will prevent the behavior in the future is just unrealistic.

It is crazy hard to be dealing with a child who is hitting, not listening, behaving unsocially, etc, but there are no magic bullets. Redirection, removal, distraction, positive phrasings - these things are not quick fixes. They're about getting through the day (stopping your child's hand before they can hit), and _long term pay-off_ (having a deep, respectful connection with your child that lasts for years, so you have a prayer of them still talking to you as teenagers!). But just because you can't "fix" the behavior right now doesn't mean you're a failure. Far from it.







All you can do is the best you can in the moment, keeping in your sights the higher goal of creating a respectful, gentle relationship with your child. We need to do what we can to survive the day, of course, but we also need to evaluate how much doing "what works" (or just "doing something", whether it helps or not, which is the category I would usually put "time outs" into) is worth potentially losing something more important.


----------



## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Time outs are in no way appropriate at 2 years old.

-Angela

They are completely appropriate in my house.

Sometimes my two year old gets completely wrapped up in whatever she is doing and can not be redirected without having her sit down and listen to me. That is when we give her a time out.

We give a warning first and do not abuse time outs. They are only to be used in specific instances. Like if she bites, hits, or acts destructive purposely. And again, she is warned if the behavior continues she will be put in the time out chair.

OP:

To answer your question, we usually use a foamy sofa we bought her a while back that folds out into a bed. Other times we use a kid size chair.

I have seen people use a rug or time out spot that could be moved from room to room.

DD only has time outs in our presence (we dont' have her in time out in one room while we are in another) so that usually involves moving the chair to the room we are in.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Time outs (unless used as time ins as mentioned) are a punitive punishment and in no way appropriate for toddlers.

-Angela


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I agree with Angela. I think at 2, the parent should we working with the child to prevent the behaviour in the future, figure out what the problem is, how to solve it, etc.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I agree with Angela. I think at 2, the parent should we working with the child to prevent the behaviour in the future, figure out what the problem is, how to solve it, etc.

I think if the 2 year old is hitting because the baby is in her way, help her thinks of strategies to cope with the situation.

I don't think time outs are abusive but they do not equip the child with the tools or strategies they need to navigate sticky situations.


----------



## motocita (Oct 31, 2004)

what has worked for me is to re-connect with dd if she is acting out. there are times when she is worked up and needs to scream/run out her frustration first, but when she is done we cuddle and only then can we talk about it.

in the wonderful book "Hold on to Your Kids" it describes in detail how misbehavior is a sign that our kids need to connect with us. i find that to be spot on for us. when my dd acts out, it is often when i have been busy busy busy and not spent much time with her. i know we are all busy but just a couple of minutes of reconnecting before talking about what she did wrong has done wonders for our relationship.

it can be very hard to feel loving after dd has done something that annoys me, but i feel this is the only true way to deal with the misbehavior. i take a deep breath and then do what i least feel like doing: i give her a hug. i find that it helps to calm ME as well.


----------



## Niamh (Jan 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zulupetalz* 
We recently had our second child and our almost 2 year old son has started acting out more (hitting, kicking, etc.) I've read that you aren't supposed to use their crib as a time out space. I tried the pack and play instead, but I put him in it yesterday and he had pulled the mattress out of the bottom and was chuckling to himself. What do most of you do?

Why did the person suggest that you aren't supposed to use a crib? I ask because I'm curious what difference a child sees in a crib and a pack and play.

I agree with others that your child is too young for time outs. It's hard with another little one, but a better approach (by far) is too be there, be present, and help your child work through his feelings that are leading him to do things that you disapprove of. He's two. He's so young. He's a baby still. It may not seem that way since you have a much younger baby in the house, but it's not fair to him that at two you expect him to behave in a way that is hard for much older children to behave. Work with him. Be creative in how you approach it. As the parent, be there - be with him.

When you put a two year old in time-out, he doesn't learn that he shouldn't hit or kick. He learns that his mother doesn't want to be around him (and he sees you being with the baby). One of the most important things to keep in mind in relationships, especially parenting, is that what you say (what you mean for them to hear) is not always what they hear. What you mean for them to "get" from your actions (like a time-out) is *rarely* what they "get". Real connection is key. Isolation is easy... for now. But you're teaching him things, and I believe breaking your connection with him, and this will hurt your relationship in ways that you may not see for years to come, and if it comes that late (say a decade from now), how are you going to heal it then?

Peace.


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

We don't do "time outs" with DS2 (3.5) either.

IMO, time "out" is a fairly advanced concept.... even my 10yo has a hard time with it sometimes, although he's getting to the point now where I can encourage him to go read a book or something when he seems to be getting overly-stressed. It's still something that has only become helpful for him in the last year.

With toddlers, I think it really has to be a time "in" to be effective at all. They need that sense of support from you to guide them through whatever is bothering them, which time-outs don't provide. Telling them to go sit in a chair and "think about it" is just setting yourself up for more stress, ime.

Ryleee's description is pretty much what I do, which can be done anywhere. I know it's hard with a baby (well, honestly, I don't... never had 2 under 2, but I can imagine), but I think it would be best to abandon the idea of a time "out" and figure out a time "in" that works for you guys.

ime, the eye-to-eye contact is crucial. I don't know why, but it's like a hypnotic code to toddlers..... "look into my eyes.....







...... seriously, now, stop trying to ride the dog........







"


----------



## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arwyn* 
That's great! It sounds like a form of "time in" that works really well for you. You're interrupting the behavior, connecting with him, and teaching him strategies for calming HIMSELF when he starts getting upset.









"Time outs" don't really work like that. Ideally, they act like a cooling off period, but when they're imposed externally, in a punitive manner (and who isn't going to be inclined to speaking crossly to their kid who is hurting their baby or their dog?), without connection, that isn't what they do. The child, especially a toddler, is usually left alone and frustrated, without their underlying needs being met. Either they're going to get even more angry or upset, and learn only that their parent doesn't love them/want them (which will make them be inclined to act out even more - and not to say that using time-outs means you DON'T love your kids, just that that is a very common way _kids interpret_ such an act), or they're just going to play in the new space, and learn nothing - which isn't all that bad! Redirection and removal are good strategies for dealing with unacceptable behavior in a two year old, who simply does not (cannot!) have good impulse control yet. But expecting them to seem "remorseful", to have "learned something from the punishment", or that removal will prevent the behavior in the future is just unrealistic.

It is crazy hard to be dealing with a child who is hitting, not listening, behaving unsocially, etc, but there are no magic bullets. Redirection, removal, distraction, positive phrasings - these things are not quick fixes. They're about getting through the day (stopping your child's hand before they can hit), and _long term pay-off_ (having a deep, respectful connection with your child that lasts for years, so you have a prayer of them still talking to you as teenagers!). But just because you can't "fix" the behavior right now doesn't mean you're a failure. Far from it.







All you can do is the best you can in the moment, keeping in your sights the higher goal of creating a respectful, gentle relationship with your child. We need to do what we can to survive the day, of course, but we also need to evaluate how much doing "what works" (or just "doing something", whether it helps or not, which is the category I would usually put "time outs" into) is worth potentially losing something more important.










THIS!







Thanks Arwyn that's a beautiful post!


----------



## Jannah6 (Aug 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zulupetalz* 
Pretty much everything I have done seems futile, really. I know it is sort of expected given his stage and new sibling, etc. I just feel like, omg, it is getting worse and worse and maybe it is because I am not doing something I should be. YKWIM? When I tell him "no hitting" and "be gentle" and things like that and he continues to hit me, it just feels like I am failing, you know?

I Know, but the time out will only worsen the situation. I had my third LO when my second was 16 months and it was HECTIC. Just give your LO ALOT of love and attention, he's going through a very difficult time.


----------



## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

From someone that used to do punitive time-outs....they don't work. They are a form of punishment and do nothing to teach. Timeouts had a major negative effect on my son and did absolutely nothing to stop the hitting.

Once we stopped doing timeouts (around 3) and found more gentle, respectful ways of dealing with misbehavior, things got so much better.


----------



## guestmama9944 (Jun 3, 2007)

Further alienating a child who obviously needs attention is not going to fix the problem. The only time-outs we use around here are for me! lol


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Niamh* 
Why did the person suggest that you aren't supposed to use a crib? I ask because I'm curious what difference a child sees in a crib and a pack and play.

When I've read that in the past it has to do with not making the sleep space a punishment space.

-Angela


----------



## Niamh (Jan 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
When I've read that in the past it has to do with not making the sleep space a punishment space.

-Angela

Ah. So the pack and play is the punishment space. Gotcha.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

If by time out, you mean "Go chill a while".. anywhere is good. The couch, his bedroom, your bed..

But, if you mean "Sit in that corner and think about what you have done" That kind of time out doesn't work very well.

ALL kids need time out though. Even very little kids need some time to gather themselves, and just hang out alone. Especially when they are frustrated. Some kids just want to lay in their bed and listen to music. Whatever he needs to regroup. But, just don't make it a punishment.


----------



## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendyjoe* 
Further alienating a child who obviously needs attention is not going to fix the problem. The only time-outs we use around here are for me! lol

I agree with you. And I love *my* time-outs, btw


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Someone else already mentioned that two years have no impulse control or empathy because their frontal lobes are still developing. How we treat our LOs influences their mental development. Pain, rage, and fear are lower brain functions. So when your toddlers hits his younger sibling he is probably afraid and hurt over having to share you. Then when you isolate him by using a timeout, he feels pain and fear again. So your only engaging his lower brain functions. When you empathize with him and help him deal with his jealous fear and pain you are helping him to develop emotionally so he'll be able to empathize eventually.
There's a book, Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland that's about brain development in babies and children. She tells about how we treat our children effects their brain development, including the ability to be an emotionally mature adult. The paperback version is called What Every Parent Needs to Know. Here's a link to more info on the book http://style.uk.msn.com/family/askth...mentid=5745727 .
We of course don't do timeouts. I do occasionally do a form of time in. I just pick up my two year old and hold her while I talk to her be about being gentle or whatever the situation calls for.


----------



## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

I will quote form my favorite parenting book: Time-Out For Parents: A Guide to Compassionate Parenting, by Cheri Huber and Melinda Guyol.

"When a parent sends a child to TIME_OUT, often it is because the parent feels stretched to the limit by the child's behavior, feels in fact as though she or he is about to "lose it," because it seems the child is "out of control."

....The parent feels out of control, needs a break, and sends the child away. When the child is gone, the adult feels more in control. It SEEMS to be working."

Basically, your DC is acting in a very age-appropriate way to the new situation of having a younger sibling, in effect--in DC's eyes--take his place. At two, lashing out physically is a very effective way to display his emotions. Why squelch that by making him sit and ignore his feelings??

It is soooo hard to see our children feeling so strongly. But, in the long run, allowing them to have and experience their emotions now, in the safety of our presence, no matter how scary or out-of-control it may feel, is the best way to show them how accepting we are of their feelings.

Another great book I'd recommend to you is Raising Cane. It makes a wonderful case for allowing boys to develop their emotions in a healthy way.

Good luck. Introducing a new sibling to a toddler is very hard. I have btdt, and we both survived, emotional health in tact--no time outs.

I defintely agree with PP who suggested redirecting and using words such as, "gentle," and, "loving and careful touches," while demonstrating what these feel like on your ds.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

The problem with time outs for a two-year-old for normal two-year-old behavior is that you are punishing a toddler for being a toddler. What you described is normal toddler behavior - not something unusually bad. Is it fair to expect a toddler to not behave like a toddler? Toddlers grow out of that without punishment. Why punish when it doesn't change the outcome? My fear is that it would set the toddler up to be resentful of the new baby - mommy is making me sit here by myself, but meanwhile that baby is getting lots of love and affection.

Punishment, particularly at this age, seems to be more because the parent feels like he/she has to do SOMETHING than because of any expected impact on the child.


----------



## mamatoni (Aug 2, 2007)

When DS (2.5 yr) is having a hard time playing nicely with either us or DD (1 yr) and redirection isn't working, etc... we usually ask him if he needs to go take a "break". By this we mean go in his "room" (we live in a 20' by 24' cabin so his room is just a different part of the house, no doors) and be in his own space. I have found that he usually gets to this point when DD is in his space too much or he just needs to chill out a little bit.

It usually works for us, and I don't feel like we are using this as a "punishment" but I am curious how you more experienced w/ GD mama's would view this type of consequence.

thanks for any input.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoni* 
When DS (2.5 yr) is having a hard time playing nicely with either us or DD (1 yr) and redirection isn't working, etc... we usually ask him if he needs to go take a "break". By this we mean go in his "room" (we live in a 20' by 24' cabin so his room is just a different part of the house, no doors) and be in his own space. I have found that he usually gets to this point when DD is in his space too much or he just needs to chill out a little bit.

It usually works for us, and I don't feel like we are using this as a "punishment" but I am curious how you more experienced w/ GD mama's would view this type of consequence.

thanks for any input.

IMO, if you ask him, and he chooses to go if he wants to but you don't make him go, then that wouldn't be a punishment - it would be suggesting a possible solution for him. But, also IMO, if you ask him if he wants to go, but he doesn't have a choice, then I'd say it's a punishment and it also really isn't fair to ask if he can't say no.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I make ds sit in his/our bedroom on the bed for his time out, he has toys, tv etc.

you can bet your butt I use time outs, not only do they give us both a chance to calm down, sometimes with ds's needs, he needs quiet alone time to regroup himself! yes... you read it right...... he NEEEEEEEEEDS them.


----------



## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

What I do is more of a time in. I take the child with me for some time with mommy.Since you are having trouble with hitting your brother you need to stay with mommmy. We then made dinner togther. Brother joined and all was happy once more.
Susan


----------



## mylittlefiredancer (Oct 23, 2005)

First off I want to offer you some hugs! The hitting/pushing/kicking stage is one we are very familiar with unfortunately. My daughter is 2 1/2 and went through a terrible time with this behavior. She was even hitting her little brother who is now 8 months old which was so incredibly heartbreaking for me. I know EXACTLY how you feel. You feel as though this stage will never end!! But it will I PROMISE!!! I also know that you feel like if you don't do a time out or something like that you are not doing much of anything to correct the behavior. I've learned that that is not the case.

When my daughter started hitting we started doing a "if you hit you will sit" rule. I got the idea from Dr. Sears' Discipline Book (I love his work by the way). What I learned was that by doing that I wasn't TEACHING her anything. And guess what else? By making her sit it actually made her MORE mad, MORE frustrated, and MORE aggressive. So one day I said that we will not do the "sitting" thing again. Instead I will TEACH her, TALK to her, and SHOW her that we do not hit. And guess what? It worked. Believe me it took a LOOOOOOOONG time and she still has her moments. But the thing is that now she understands WHY she shouldn't hit and can do other things to relieve her frustration like taking deep breaths, taking a break, getting a hug, using her words, yelling, or going off to play alone. She knows that in our house hurting in any way is NOT TOLERATED because it makes everyone really sad around her. But the best part is that she understands why.

Another thing that helped us were the children's books Hands Are Not For Hitting, Feet Are Not For Kicking, and Teeth Are Not For Biting. There's a whole series of these books from Free Spirit Publishing and they are AWESOME. You can read them over and over (and over and over and over in our case!) and then have wonderful discussions about them with your little ones!

Good luck!! This stage will pass I promise!

Nichole








:





















:


----------



## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I agree with Angela. I think at 2, the parent should we working with the child to prevent the behaviour in the future, figure out what the problem is, how to solve it, etc.

I think if the 2 year old is hitting because the baby is in her way, help her thinks of strategies to cope with the situation.

I don't think time outs are abusive but they do not equip the child with the tools or strategies they need to navigate sticky situations.

I agree with this. I would look at the triggers for the behaviour rather than just trying to stop it.

A new sibling in the mix is pretty big. I loved Naomi Aldort's article and approach on helping kids deal with emotional upsets - it gets to the root of the problem.


----------



## guestmama9944 (Jun 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
you can bet your butt I use time outs, not only do they give us both a chance to calm down, sometimes with ds's needs, he needs quiet alone time to regroup himself! yes... you read it right...... he NEEEEEEEEEDS them.









Certainly a child with sensory issues is going to need different things than a more run-of-the-mill toddler. What she's describing is very normal toddler behavior. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between what she's describing and the difficulties you have with your particular ds.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendyjoe* 
Certainly a child with sensory issues is going to need different things than a more run-of-the-mill toddler. What she's describing is very normal toddler behavior. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between what she's describing and the difficulties you have with your particular ds.

no, because alot of the things my son does is age appropriate 2yr old behaviour as well, and he gets a time out.


----------



## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

What's the best way to give yourself a "timeout" when things are getting too stressful, you are by yourself and you can't just lock yourself in a room with the child screaming on the other side?

I rarely have removed my almost 2yo dd from doing something and I have placed her in her crib for a few minutes while I regain my composure. At the point that I have to do that, that is the safest place for my child at that moment in time. I always get myself together and go in and snuggle, rock, nurse with her and explain what happened and that I was sorry for getting so upset. I find I "feel" this way easier when it's that time of the month. But I would love to find other ways to get myself under control and be able to have the right train of thought/patience to diffuse the situation before it gets to explosive.


----------



## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

when I am by myself, i just put ds somewhere he cant get hurt, if its a crib or on my bed etc, and walk away to calm down


----------



## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snitker79* 
What's the best way to give yourself a "timeout" when things are getting too stressful, you are by yourself and you can't just lock yourself in a room with the child screaming on the other side?

I rarely have removed my almost 2yo dd from doing something and I have placed her in her crib for a few minutes while I regain my composure. At the point that I have to do that, that is the safest place for my child at that moment in time. I always get myself together and go in and snuggle, rock, nurse with her and explain what happened and that I was sorry for getting so upset. I find I "feel" this way easier when it's that time of the month. But I would love to find other ways to get myself under control and be able to have the right train of thought/patience to diffuse the situation before it gets to explosive.

I've walked away or put my DD in her crib for a few minutes when she was younger (now she's almost 3)--I think there's a difference between knowing when you/your child needs a minute to collect yourself and using punitive time out, where isolation is punishment. Also, where the time out becomes a threat whenever the child is out of step with the behavior the adult is seeking. Like many have posted--lots of behaviors are annoying but normal for two. I try to work with my child to explain and model how to act than train her with a negative consequence. Because with a two year old you will be constantly saying "Don't touch or you'll get a time out! Don't climb up there or you'll get a time out. Don't do this or time out..." it seems more like a set up for conflict than resolution when they are so young.


----------



## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

We use the kitchen stool, near the microwave so they can see the countdown timer.
Between all 3 kids we use a time out maybe once a week. Works very well for us.


----------

