# How to approach pro-spanking sister? (caution - could be upsetting)



## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

I need some help from those of you that have been through this before. My sister is pro-spanking. We couldn't be anymore different when it comes to parenting styles. She's smart, educated and reads a lot of stuff online. She's a SAHM and is active in her church. I think she must be getting alot of her discipline advice from that crowd plus she's a fan of the Gary Ezzo/Babywise stuff. We rarely got spanked when we were kids. With all that said, here's what is bothering me -- we went to her house last weekend to exchange Christmas gifts. We were there several hours. The whole time we were there my BIL had a spanking stick in his back pocket or in his hand or sitting out within reach. Their oldest child is 3.5 and he's the one that they use it on. They do have 2 younger kids but I don't think they're spanking them yet. This spanking stick is about 6 inches long and 1 inch wide. Its metal covered with thick leather. It reminds me of some horse whips I've seen used in the past when I showed horses. My nephew doesn't misbehave that much. I've never seen him act in a way that would warrant carrying around a spanking stick at all times. I just don't get it. I want to say something to my sister but I don't know how. I could start by saying something to my mom but I still need help there too. Somehow my sister and I have managed to stay friends even though our styles are polar opposites. I stay out of her business and she stays out of mine. We support each other by talking about the things we do have in common like crazy ILs and little boys. I don't want there to be harsh feelings between us if possible. I'm just worried about how this will affect my nephew. He spent alot of time in his room by himself while we were there. I would too if I lived in fear. If you have any links that discuss ruling your children with fear, please share them. Maybe I could email her some stuff to read. TIA

Kim


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## zeldamomma (Jan 5, 2006)

I think I'd wait until we were alone and start with "what's the deal with the spanking stick?" and see where the conversation goes from there. Frankly, I'd worry she was being abused if her husband was afraid to be without it. That seems like something beyond merely using spanking as a punishment.

I believe the Pearl's advocate using their baby whips on babies. I wouldn't be so sure that they only use it on the oldest.

((Hugs))

ZM


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Hi. I've encountered something similar as my sister used to spank her two boys.

I've found that people are generally not receptive when they feel their parenting is being criticized. It is a very difficult topic to broach. I found it easier to discuss in a general sense, rather than speaking directly about her and her children. For example, I would say that I don't believe that it is ever okay to spank a child for any reason, without directly mentioning her family. I would say things like this in the course of conversations that were related to discipline or difficulties in parenting.

Any time I saw her hit one of her boys, I would immediately pick up ds and leave the room for 5-10 minutes. I wouldn't say anything, but would go into the bathroom or just go for a short walk around the house (usually at my parents' or grandparents' house.) If I was at her house and she hit one of her children, I would leave. I wouldn't say anything about the spanking, I would just say, "It's time for us to go." Actions speak louder than words. And my actions let her know that what she was doing was unacceptable to me.

I'm not sure how old your dc is, but modelling appropriate discipline is one of the best ways to send a positive message. If she discusses discipline with you, it can often be helpful to phrase things in a way that doesn't seem like you are telling her what to do, or thinking that you know best how she should discipline her children (a real turnoff,) but rather mention things that work for you and your family in similar situations.

Sometimes poeple really don't know another way, and are feeling frustrated and unsure of themselves. Offering workable solutions and modeling gentle discipline are your best bets.

Please tread gently and remember that criticism usually makes people defensive, and makes them argue their point. You don't want her trying to defend her actions, so try not to openly criticise them. Oh yeah, also try to be as supportive as possible, as this tends to make people more receptive to what you have to say.

It's tough. Good luck with this.


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## peilover010202 (Nov 1, 2005)

Maybe you could suggest a book? I have one in mind, called "Raising Cain" which is about raising boys. It explains their need for exercise to "run off" the energy they have, explains the differences between boys and girls, even talks about ways in which you shouldn't discipline boys. I haven't read the whole book yet, but it's even touched on the ineffectiveness of raising boys in fear and how boys generally withdraw (so sad to see he's already doing that.)







And, that puts them "at risk" according to the authors (at risk for using drugs, doing poorly in school, making friends with the wrong crowd, etc.) It's written by 2 psychologists. Maybe you could read it and then tell her the points you found fascinating "Hey sis, I have been reading this book about raising boys and I thought you may find it interesting."

also, as a pp mentioned. Could it be possible she's being mistreated too?


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zeldamomma* 
I think I'd wait until we were alone and start with "what's the deal with the spanking stick?" and see where the conversation goes from there. Frankly, I'd worry she was being abused if her husband was afraid to be without it. That seems like something beyond merely using spanking as a punishment.

I believe the Pearl's advocate using their baby whips on babies. I wouldn't be so sure that they only use it on the oldest.

((Hugs))

ZM

I like this direct approach. I'd be worried too. What's BIL like?


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

That actually made me feel ill.
I don't know where you live but here in CA it's illegal to hit your child with any object. To me, carrying a metal object around to hit a toddler is abusive--physical and emotional.
I guess I would say, you know that's illegal, right?
But that's just here.
I don't have great advice. But I feel so sad for your little nephew and I just can't see how it will be healthy for your kids to see this.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

A metal rod!! I would be seriously worried about your sister, actually. Even educated women get into bad relationships and since she is so "smart", she would probably be even more embarrassed to ask for help or let on to her family. It seems so obvious that there is major abuse going on.

I'd be really tempted to call CPS. Find out what the law is in your area. Hopefully that rod is completely against the law. Then again, I doubt anything, at this point, is going to stop the father from beating his child(ren).

I don't know if this helps, but here's a link:
http://stoptherod.net/

So sad...


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
What's BIL like?

Actually, my sister wears the pants in the family so to speak. She's the dominate controlling one. If she says to jump, he jumps. They're both pro-spanking but if my sister didn't want to spank the kids, she would have the final say I'm quite sure. BIL was spanked alot while growing up. I can't believe he's not against it. I think they're justifying the spanking because of their religious beliefs. They are very religious and are the type of people that believe that part of our nation's problems are because people don't spank like they used to. I found a great website about Grace Based Discipline which points out how the Bible doesn't advocate punishing children like so many of these wacko "Christian" authors say. I may find a way to bring it up in conversation so I can email it to her. Thanks for all the feedback. I did email my cousin that works at the Family Court to find out how the spanking laws here are interpreted. I hope to hear back from her before I see my mom this weekend.

Kim


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## mysweetfiona (Apr 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl* 
That actually made me feel ill.
I don't know where you live but here in CA it's illegal to hit your child with any object. To me, carrying a metal object around to hit a toddler is abusive--physical and emotional.
I guess I would say, you know that's illegal, right?
But that's just here.
I don't have great advice. But I feel so sad for your little nephew and I just can't see how it will be healthy for your kids to see this.


That Bakersfield, CA is where those "whipping sticks" are/ were sold....
I wonder how they could do that if it intentionally sold to hit children, and it is illegal?? Screwy, huh. Sorry, off topic. I was reminded of those hitting sticks sold in Bakersfield, CA.

There is great advice here, as usual. I am glad I stopped in.







:

Lori


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peilover010202* 
Maybe you could suggest a book? I have one in mind, called "Raising Cain" which is about raising boys. It explains their need for exercise to "run off" the energy they have, explains the differences between boys and girls, even talks about ways in which you shouldn't discipline boys. I haven't read the whole book yet, but it's even touched on the ineffectiveness of raising boys in fear and how boys generally withdraw (so sad to see he's already doing that.)







And, that puts them "at risk" according to the authors (at risk for using drugs, doing poorly in school, making friends with the wrong crowd, etc.) It's written by 2 psychologists. Maybe you could read it and then tell her the points you found fascinating "Hey sis, I have been reading this book about raising boys and I thought you may find it interesting."

also, as a pp mentioned. Could it be possible she's being mistreated too?

Thank you for posting this! I googled it and found this:

http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/helpingboys.html

Navigate to the "Emotionally Strong Boys" section and it talks about not using harsh punishments. I emailed it to my mom and to my sister just now. I didn't say anything about spanking, I just said that I thought the info was interesting and that I espcially liked the "Emotionally Strong Boys" info. I don't know if it will help but maybe it will open up a conversation.

Kim


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

I just point blank tell people I feel extremely uncomfortable having my children around any kind of violent behaviour. I know I don't allow people to spank their children in my house. We don't socialize with people who spank, ever. Having said that, being that it is your sister I'm not sure there is a way to approach it without her feeling attacked. You just have to be honest and caring while telling her how you feel about it


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Another potential book recommendation for them might be "Kid Cooperation" by Elizabeth Pantley. While its not Christian, it does discuss why spanking is a bad idea and gives a lot of alternatives. Its a good one to recommend to those who will always expect obedience from their children and believe parents as authority figures because it doesn't go so far onto the consensual living side of the equation that it will be an automatic turnoff to them.

I would say that in this type of family even getting them to move to timeouts and loss of priveledges would be better than what they are doing now. Baby steps, you know?


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## ksbell315 (May 28, 2005)

Check out : http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/

I sent this link to my SIL when I found out she had gotten a copy of Babywise while she was pg with her first. I hadn't looked at it in awhile, but I noticed they have a link about the whipping rods. There are some disturbed people out there. It is so sad.

Shannon

Mom to Libby







26 months


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## erin a (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimbernet* 
I think they're justifying the spanking because of their religious beliefs. They are very religious and are the type of people that believe that part of our nation's problems are because people don't spank like they used to.

Kim

Did you know Dr Sears is a christian? In his book "the Complete Book of Christian Parenting and Child Care" he has an extensive chapter on gentle discipline and lots of imformation that debunks the myth that the Bible says to spank children.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

No advice, just I hope you find some answers.


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## Silvercrest79 (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erin a* 
Did you know Dr Sears is a christian? In his book "the Complete Book of Christian Parenting and Child Care" he has an extensive chapter on gentle discipline and lots of imformation that debunks the myth that the Bible says to spank children.

About the book mentioned above, how do I know what is the most recent edition? I'm looking on Alibris right now and they have several copies.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Holy crap......he carries a weapon to whip his child?? I personally think that is not only physical but emotional abuse. No child should live in fear like that.....and if your kids FEAR you, if the only reason they behave is because they are AFRAID of you....they won't actually learn right from wrong. Only fear.


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## Baby Makes 4 (Feb 18, 2005)

Sounds like he's taking the Pearls' advice. They advocate using whips on small children and babies and always keeping them within reach and sight so as to remind the child of the punishment awaiting them for misbehaving.

I'm sorry.


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## Leta (Dec 6, 2006)

I would, without a doubt, call CPS.

I have a brother, and if he or his partner was carrying a "whipping stick" at all times to act as intimidation toward their children, I would call CPS so fast!(It goes without saying that I adore my brother.)

Let me just get this out the way: I can see how there are times when a reasonable parent could hit their child with an open palm to the kid's attention. I do not spank, but I do not think that spanking always equals abuse.

However, _using a weapon to physically or emotionally intimidate anyone is considered assualt in most states_. The fact that this is being perpetrated on a toddler is utterly heinous.

This is harsh, and I am sorry, but your sister and her husband are abusive parents. I don't care what brand of crackpot religion they want to cloak themselves in, abuse is illegal. (And this is sooo Off Topic, but what little child would Jesus whip, intimidate, and scare? )

Also, that mainstream crackpot Dr. Phil has done multiple shows on taking "implements of discipline" from parents, saying that it is abusive, counterproductive bad parenting. And honestly, does anyone think that Dr. Phil is too crunchy?


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## erin a (Mar 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Silvercrest79* 
About the book mentioned above, how do I know what is the most recent edition? I'm looking on Alibris right now and they have several copies.

The edition I have says 1997, I'm not sure if there's a more recent ed or not. I got mine when my DS was an infant so it was new then (wow, is he that old already!?). I found the book helpful at that time when everyone at church was telling me I wasn't a good christian parent if I didn't spank my child bc 'the Bible says we should spank our children' (which it does not!).

To OP, I find as others have already mentioned that people (myself included!) get very defensive when parenting styles are questioned. I have found discussing things in a general way with people as opposed to directly saying something about how they parent usually works better. I've also found books to be a good starting point on the discussion. You have boys as well so maybe you could start out by say something like "I've been reading this really good book/saw a program about raising boys and I found it interesting that it said....". Sometimes even saying things like what you don't like about your own parenting will help to open people up to talking as well (like, "sometimes I get so angry at my DS and I yell at him and I wish I didn't because... I feel I need to work on treating him more gently because....).
All the best, it's a tough situation, especially when it's family!


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