# Canadian Gas Prices, What can we Do?



## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

This is getting ridiculous. I'm on the border of Alberta and Saskatchewan in the middle of oil country. Our gas rose yesterday from 91.5 to 98.5 and it's expected to raise another 10c today. In BC it hit over $1/litre last night and I know it was close to or at that in Newfoundland/Labrador already, can't imagine what they'll pay when this hits that side of the country. Dh was called last night by a friend and he managed to fill the car at 96.5, most other places were at 98.5 already. He joked he was going to bring his truck home, park it on our lawn and plant flowers in it. I told him, no he's going to drive it to husky and do that with a big sign on the front.

There has to be something us consumers can do. The Gov't has to step in and put a stop to this. 11 years ago I was paying 34.5/litre.


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## mermommy (Aug 16, 2004)

Because I'm curious...









Is this right?
using $1 cdn/ litre

US gallon = 3.785 litres
1 Canadian Dollar = $.84 (as of 5:07pm )

so $3.79 cdn dollars per gallon or $3.17 US a gallon.

Here ( around Boston) Premium is $2.49- $2.60 and the lower grades run slightly less. Near my mom's house in VT the prices were close - $.10 or so different depending on the area.

ETA today gas is up - premium is $2.69


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

Gas is going to keep going up. Every time Al-Quidea threatens an oil rig .. gas goes up 5-10$ a barrel. AND if the USA starts a war with Iran, Gas will be well over 100$ a barrel.

Want to see the scariest thing on the internet google 'peak oil'

All this makes me SICK.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Rough estimate that I did earlier and they're actually in Can $, so take about 1/3 off and that's the US $.

Quote:

In US$ the conversions are

.915/L - 3.46/gallon
.985/L - 3.77/gallon

IF it goes up to 1.08/gallon(it is at that in BC) it is 4.08/gallon.

Quote:

Gas is going to keep going up. Every time Al-Quidea threatens an oil rig .. gas goes up 5-10$ a barrel. AND if the USA starts a war with Iran, Gas will be well over 100$ a barrel.
This is a big reason why it bothers me so much. I've heard many times that the oil in Alberta will never run out and there is more than enough for Canada. This doesn't include the oil in Saskatchewan that hasn't even been tapped into yet and the oil up north. (I have heard similar statements about oil reserves in the USA). IF this is true then why would what happens in Iran and Iraq affect the oil prices on the oil/gas that we're getting from our own country. When the gas price rose last night supposedly the oil companies in Canada doubled their profits and the consumers are the ones who keep getting screwed over.

I know there's politics and all that BS added in, but as consumers why should we just sit back and accept this instead of trying to do something to change it. Yeah they have us between a rock and a hard place because people need gas to get around so we have no real choice but to pay the prices(half of which are taxes that the gov't could step in and lower). The gov'ts have the choice to step in and lower the taxes that would lower our gas prices, they could cap the price so it cannot go any higher. I know they won't unless the consumers revolt because so many of the politicians have the oil companies so far up their rears that they're seeing out of the oil company's eyes rather than their own. People have the ability to change, especially in Canada where there is the near future looming of another federal election because of the minority gov't. If any party wants to get in majority power, the promise(and follow through) of lowering gas will do it. If the gov't is afraid of not having enough of our own resources then they should be looking into the other options more.

I've never lobbied the gov't for anything, how do you do it and is there any point right now since they're off until fall session opens?


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

I agree with you. The gov in both countries need to do something about this. I think there is a better chance in Canada do get something done then here. We have a oil loving money hungry dude in the WH.

Sometimes I don't know what to believe ... stuff like I mentioned before about the oil going up because of politics or if it is just greed. I keep hearing that oil companies are at all times profits.

it was went up 13 cents in the past week here .. and it is not gonna stop. I don't know how poeple are going to make it. We are having a tough time.

When oil goes up it is not just the gas that goes up EVERYTHING DOES

Maybe you can right letters to your MP or the newspaper.


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## babysx9 (Jun 5, 2005)

Well, I would like to know what and how to go about lobbying. I have personally started to limit trips out and walking whenever possible. I refuse to line the pockets of the oil companies.


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

Well, our gas is pretty much at C$1.00 a litre. I haven't a clue how to lobby something but I do know I"m going to pick up the phone and start calling my local MP and MPP offices. Make your voice heard and ask them what they're doing about this situation, as well. I'm sure there are other MPs and Minister's offices we could call. A bit of googling and perhaps we can find some grass roots iniatives. It's really ridiculous - these prices. My husband commutes about 2-4 hours a day to his work and we're easily spending $500 a month in gas. But, I agree with bellydancemama2Syd - letters (and calls) to our politicians and our newspapers are a good place to start.







:


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## NB Mom (Jul 7, 2004)

A couple of days ago gas went up to $1.07 here (New Brunswick). This is sick.







:


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## InfoisPower (Nov 21, 2001)

Thing that irks me is that the amount of tax per litre of fuel is around 30% + -
which is a huge hit. No wonder the current governement has been trying to buy our votes with our own money!

http://www.caa.ca/gasprice/breakdown.html


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

The US and Canadian govts soft-subsidize their oil industries, the US more than Canada, hence your higher prices (but only by $0.80 USD/gallon if the conversions in the thread are right). The true cost of a gallon of 87 octane gasoline, according to an ex-oil industry guy is $16.87USD/Gal. (I can't find the link... it's buried under a mound o' bookmarks) If that's true, we're all gettin' off cheap.

...But pay no attention to those guys behind the curtain.... there is no such thing as peak oil, no such thing as global warming, no such thing as a toxic chemical, it's all just a lotta hooey perpetrated by liberals to bamboozle a weak-minded populace so they can take over the world...eat your pesticide laced Franken-produce, obey, don't think, ask no questions, buy a second Hummer, be happy, we're all rich (except those that don't deserve wealth, and they're all out to steal yours so buy guns, preferably semi-automatic ones), the free market will save us...









uh, yeah. Welcome to peak oil.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Peak oil- there simply isn't going to be a supply of cheap oil ever again.


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

I think we are near the "peak" and I also thing the oil supply is going DOWN from now on. Scary isn't it. What are we gonna do with hardly any oil? We need to find other solutions but with money hungry Gov's it will be tough.

Here are a couple links on how to lobby. Hope it is helpful

http://www.democracyctr.org/resources/lobbying.html

http://www.journalismnet.com/canada/lobby.htm


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## wenat (Apr 17, 2004)

One of my friends commented that he'd like to see oil go to $3/litre. That way, more people would find better ways of getting around.

I've driven gas-efficient cars all my life, and deliberately moved so that I was reasonably close to transit to get to work, and so that I'm 10 minutes away from my mom, who's been taking DS until I have the next babe.

Yeah, I hate that prices are this high, but I only fill up the car every 2-3 weeks, and I just try to wait for the gas price war that always happens every couple of weeks.

Just think: higher gas = fewer cars on the road = less pollution. There are threads all over this board about mdc moms' attitudes to SUVs. Higher gas prices will also cut down on SUV purchases, and that can't be a bad thing.


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

There are prod and cons to this. less pollution good less cars on the road good. But people who live in places that do not have city transportation ( I am one of them) are screwed. Plus the price of EVERYTHING goes up when oil goes up. Our entire ecomony is based on cheap petrolum. Imports/exports. All the stuff that we buy needs oil to get to us.

In the long run it will be good ( maybe) but it is when the change takes place and when the oil is low that will be the hard part.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Good site to check out for the lowest price in your area...

http://www.gasbuddy.com/


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## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

I don't mean to rain on your pity parade (believe me I am joining and I do understand







), but I'm a little bristley since we're paying 1.60 a litre in Swiss francs which is roughly equivalent to the Canadian dollar. We've been told the gas prices are so much higher for the moment in Europe due to our oil being bought up by the US due to their refineries not being able to to meet demand and that they are not being maintained.







: Why is this happing and why is Europe LETTING it happen?

Anyone know if there is any truth to this before I do a long serch in German?

Olivia


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *etoilech*
I don't mean to rain on your pity parade (believe me I am joining and I do understand







), but I'm a little bristley since we're paying 1.60 a litre in Swiss francs which is roughly equivalent to the Canadian dollar. We've been told the gas prices are so much higher for the moment in Europe due to our oil being bought up by the US due to their refineries not being able to to meet demand and that they are not being maintained.







: Why is this happing and why is Europe LETTING it happen?

Anyone know if there is any truth to this before I do a long serch in German?

Olivia

I will see if I can find any info supporting this


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

etoilech - I found nothing to support the claim about what you said about the USA and there oil refineries. Maybe the gas is higher there beacuse of the taxes?

Just curious ... where did you hear this, newspaper? News station? I would like to read more on this.


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## etoilech (Mar 25, 2004)

It's been all over the news here (in German), I'm gonna have to find something and just translate into English. I do know our gas is higher due to taxes, but the recent hike has (supposedly) been due to what I mentioned above.

I'm gonna get hubby to look... will post back what I find.









Olivia


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Yup, I just did the mental math and that is worse than our (US) gas pains.

I guess we all just try to conserve...it's all I can think of doing in the face of high petrol prices.

DB


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, we're putting our car up for sale, planning on using more public transit, and looking closely at politicians' positions/actions re stuff like fuel efficiency, alternative energy sources, and public transit (hint: most politicians' track records are pitiful).

We're fortunate enough to live in a city, close to public transit. I agree that things are much harder on an individual level if you live rurally or in a bedroom community where everything is designed to move traffic. No great short-term solutions in those cases, just a need for increased public pressure on both businesses and the public sector to get a move on with things like hybrid vehicles, wind energy, affordable and efficient public transit, etc.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

I contacted a few MP's and received a letter back from Anne McLellan's office in Edmonton(Liberal MP). I requested a personal letter which I'm presuming will be some form letter that someone stamps her signature to.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

"peak oil" is all about money, profit and control of the populace. we work more hours now than people have ever worked before and i personally dont think that our quality of life really reflects the amount of time we put in to pay for it. this "peak oil" thing is just another way of keeping people in slavery. Tax freedom day in canada right now is june 28. with the new gas prices and the increased amt of money we'll be paying in gas tax, i'm sure it'll be pushed well into july.

find freedom in alternative transportation i guess. there are other ways of getting around, we dont "have" to rely on the oil cartels. biofuel, bicycle power, public transit (if you're lucky enough to have a good system to rely on), heck, i've even seen people using old fashioned horse and buggies around here.

ps, didnt we 'run out of oil' in the 70's too?


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## babysx9 (Jun 5, 2005)

Unfortunately for me, a horse and buggy way wouldn't work here and I can't even get a smaller vehicle as my DD is in a wheelchair. Luckily, my DH has a company vehicle that pays for gas. We can't afford to move right now to get closer to his work either.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

yeah, the horse and buggy is pretty extremist, but it's just an example. there are other ways, it's just a matter of figuring out what will work.


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## babysx9 (Jun 5, 2005)

Yes, I decided on walking. One trip to the stores a week, on Saturday. Anything else we all walk together. The up side is I am getting more exercise. One of my pet peeves though, is the people I see, with no kids even, driving these huge SUV's or Hummers and they drive everywhere, I swear, just for the sake of wasting gas. If everyone stopped using as much gasoline, they would have to do something. Didn't this same exact thing happen in the 70's


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

well now it is 2.59 where I live. We are starting to limit our driving. When our lease is up on our place we are moving closer to DH work ( we live about 17 miles from his work now). There is a place that has apartments right across the street so DH can walk.

I wish charlotte/concord had better public transportation.


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

Peak oil is real. It is not about money it is about finite resources ... meaning once we run out of oil there is no more oil.

We didn't run out of oil in the 70's ... The arabs conducted an oil embargo .... stopped selling oil tho the USA. That shocked the system causing oil prices to Sky rocket because the usa had to rely on there own oil.

If that ( the embargo) created such a twist with oil then .. imagine when we run out


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## babysx9 (Jun 5, 2005)

Mooresville has good transportation to and from Charlotte and even around town. I just can't get all the kiddos on it. Good thing I raised them all to like walking. A trip to the grocery store is fun for them.


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babysx9*
Mooresville has good transportation to and from Charlotte and even around town. I just can't get all the kiddos on it. Good thing I raised them all to like walking. A trip to the grocery store is fun for them.

Well I might have to look there when we move. DH has to go to Harris Blvd.

There isn't much here in Downtown Concord, Ice cream and a gym. thats about it. I would love to live somwhere that i can walk to the store.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

Tax freedom day in canada right now is june 28. with the new gas prices and the increased amt of money we'll be paying in gas tax, i'm sure it'll be pushed well into july.








What is Tax freedom day?

Quote:

One of my pet peeves though, is the people I see, with no kids even, driving these huge SUV's or Hummers and they drive everywhere, I swear, just for the sake of wasting gas.
This is another side effect of the oil business. Living in this town I see it every day. The young adults are working for the oil companies making more money you'd think possible allowing them to purchase their toys and then they need to flaunt it around. The people who are too young to work for the oil companies usually have a parent who does or who owns their own so they purchase their children vehicles. Both the kids of these parents and the kids who are working for themselves spend, spend, spend because everything is throw away to them. It wrecks buy a new one.

How can they tell that they've hit peak oil. There are many areas where they know there's oil but because they haven't drilled to pump it out they have no idea how much is there. The oil pumps here rarely stop moving and there are many which have been here for years pumping away.


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## InfoisPower (Nov 21, 2001)

Tax Freedom day is calculated by the Fraser Institute. It represents a day in the year when your share of all taxes, federal, provincial and hidden are paid off.
In general you can say that for one half of the year you do nothing but earn your share of the tax burden. The other half of your income is yours.


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*

How can they tell that they've hit peak oil. There are many areas where they know there's oil but because they haven't drilled to pump it out they have no idea how much is there. The oil pumps here rarely stop moving and there are many which have been here for years pumping away.

that is a good question. there are many scientist who have differet views on this. I will find the info and post it ( fussy baby tonight so it may be tomorrow).

I don't think we are at peak yet but it is hard to tell. There are so many things that factor in to the cost of oil. For example the death of the prince in Saudi Arabia, terroist threats, money hunger CEO's and the Gov. not doing anything about it.

It makes me sick to hear the oil companies having a record breaking profit while we are suffering out here.

Oil is just one of those things we need. Not like we can protest and stop buying gas until the prices go down .. peole need gas to go to work, to get food etc ...

** It is rumored that oil will be over 105$ a barrel in 2007. AND if we go to war with Iran ... we are looking at at least 100$ barrel. Makes me wonder if the Bush Co admin are filling their pockets with some of the oil profit so they can play the adult real life version of Risk


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## bellydancemama2Syd (Jul 29, 2005)

CarryMF - here are some things you can read out Peak oil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Using public transportation and walking is all well and good but everybody can't do those things either. I live 10 km in each direction away from any town. I am in the country. I couldn't walk 10 km one way anyways because I have bad health problems but my 2 and 4 year olds are supposed to walk a 20 km round trip to go to playgroup? yeah right! Not everybody has any other option but to drive their vehicle.


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## mamajim (Dec 2, 2004)

Maybe oil is one of those things we think we "need" but we definetly do not. Maybe right now in this disgusting trend of excessive over-consumption, but there are alternatives to oil and all it's millions of usless by-products. Walking, biking, bio-diesel, magnet motors, electric motors, good ol' horse n buggy. We are taking the blood of the earth and the refineries are polluting and poisoning everything, everybody, everywhere. Why continue supporting it? What did the earth's inhabitants do for the million years before drilling for oil? Oil companies don't care about you, or our children, certainly not for the earth that has to support us all. Instead of lobbying to politicians who, of course, are paid well by the oil monsters, try out alterntives. encourage others to follow. Develop walking friendly neighbourhoods, this will help everone. Small businesses will thrive, large coroprations will not. We can all make a difference in this world, let's save our energy for making real efforts to change this twisted society that has been built.


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## dingogirl (Sep 9, 2002)

yes, we've hit our peak and gas is only going to get more expensive. in australia, we pay double what the u.s. pays for petrol. it's not that big of a deal to us because we don't drive big-ass trucks and suv's. folks, this 'crisis' is nothing compared to what's going to happen as a result of global warming. i'm sure my post on the coming ice age was written off as sheer lunacy.
http://www.datameteo.com/correntegolfo.htm
by the time global warming is evident to everyone on the planet, it'll be too late to do anything about it. if we were to stop polluting today, it would still take 100 years for the earth to notice. but what do i know? i'm just some internet wacko. have you heard the saying 'insanity is a sane reaction to an insane world.' ?









hybrid car gets up to 250 mpg;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050813/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

From the first article on peak oil,

Quote:

U.S. oil production did indeed peak in 1970, and has been decreasing since then.
How do they know it peaked? The US is a large chunk of land, did they drill all over the country? I know here they can drill in 1 spot and find nothing, then move 1/4 mile over and find a large reserve or a "stream". What about in the parts of the ocean that is considered US space. I'm not denying that peak oil can exist, I just want to know how they know that they it peaked.

Quote:

by the time global warming is evident to everyone on the planet, it'll be too late to do anything about it.
I'm pretty sure that global warming is evident to everyone. Even people who live in remote villages not known about other than locals would have a pretty good idea that something's changed the world's weather.

Quote:

Instead of lobbying to politicians who, of course, are paid well by the oil monsters, try out alterntives. encourage others to follow. Develop walking friendly neighbourhoods, this will help everone. Small businesses will thrive, large coroprations will not. We can all make a difference in this world, let's save our energy for making real efforts to change this twisted society that has been built.
As the majority of people who've responded on this topic have said, alternative energy, walking to stores(small business or large corporations), etc is not possible for alot of us. I live in a town of 24,000 people. I do walk, but there are alot of places that I cannot walk to or it is not feasable to walk to. To get my girls to their playschool would take 1 1/2hours to walk because it is at the other end of town. It is not an option to send them to the 1 playschool close to me that is still a 30minute walk away. When it is -50F it is deadly to walk anywhere, even for my older dd to walk the 5minutes to her school. Vehicles that have been plugged in so they'll start don't even run when it's that cold, and no they don't close the schools due to weather here. If a person lived in an area where they could find alternatives then that's great but in reality few people do and even less are going to be able to in the future.

So gas went up again last night. It was $.965/litre and now I think it is $1.09/litre, I can't tell for sure because most of the gas stations don't have enough spaces on their big signs to put the price up.

I was reading yesterday that the Liberal gov't is being lobby'd by Steven Harper of the Conservatives. This guy scares the life out of me, he is Bush in Canada. The Liberals are saying that it is useless to try and put the price of gas down because the few cents it would go down would never make it to the public, they don't control the price the oil companies put on the oil, blah,blah, excuse, excuse. They're the freaking gov't, they can pretty much do whatever they want to. Only the Queen can override them. Mulrooney pushed the Free Trade Agreement through after many, many years of fighting the US gov't on it. 84% of the Canadian population did not want it and he did it anyhow. Income Tax was supposed to be temporary to support/pay for the war, oops we still have it because the gov't makes money on it. There is so much of our gas prices that are tax and last I remember the gov't is the one who charges those taxes so saying they can't do anything is pure BS. The gov't has regulated the price of other natural resources why can't they do it to gas/oil too? Gas is double taxed and they can't get rid of or lower either one. Give us a rebate if they supposedly can't reduce the price at the pump, farmers buying bulk fuel get a $.10/litre reduction in fuel why can't the rest of us?


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
From the first article on peak oil,

How do they know it peaked? The US is a large chunk of land, did they drill all over the country? I know here they can drill in 1 spot and find nothing, then move 1/4 mile over and find a large reserve or a "stream". What about in the parts of the ocean that is considered US space. I'm not denying that peak oil can exist, I just want to know how they know that they it peaked.


From an ASPO link: http://www.peakoil.net/WoodMackenzie.html

"...in January 2004 they have released an horizon analysis titled "New thinking needed for exploration?" The conclusions are with data since the mid 1990s:
• Only 3 out of 10 exploration wells have been successful.
• Excluding the giants of the deep-water zenith and Kashagan (1999 and 2000).
• The average discovery size has been around 50 million barrels. This should be compared with the daily production of 75 million barrels.
• Summing up the discoveries for 2003 it looks to be around 20 million barrels per day. We are indeed cutting a large piece of the reserve cake.
• The average value of discoveries has fallen. This is in accordance with the predictions of Uppsala Hydrocarbon Depletion Study Group, www.isv.uu.se/uhdsg.
• The average value of discoveries has fallen.
The majors performed disproportionately well in 1999 and 2000 but less well before and since."

Other sites seem to point to the thumbnail observation that the ratio of exploration to discoveries is dramatically reduced since the 1970's worldwide and also that exploration is in the 1990's to present for the first time posting major losses of investment funding and the raised eyebrows in the financial biz that deals with oil futures, etc. Then when you dig down into the scientific nitty gritty and the math underlying that thumbnail observation, the data seems to suggest that existing fields are beginning to cost as much or more to pump out than they were before and others are drying up (or being so costly that they're losing money at the wellhead).

For some serious geek math stuff, see the book cited in:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072601004.html

Does this help explain how they know the peak is here or will be in 2008 worldwide (or was in the case of the U.S.?)? There are positively reams and reams of sober math, data, etc. on this stuff. I've been reading on it for the last six or seven years and I have an external HD with close to 20 gigs of just articles and papers on it. It's a lot of material and my little amateur collection is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

Here's another intriguing update link:

http://www.peakoil.net/uhdsg/Default.htm


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
As the majority of people who've responded on this topic have said, alternative energy, ... is not possible for alot of us. ... When it is -50F it is deadly to walk anywhere, ...If a person lived in an area where they could find alternatives then that's great but in reality few people do and even less are going to be able to in the future.
.....There is so much of our gas prices that are tax and last I remember the gov't is the one who charges those taxes so saying they can't do anything is pure BS. The gov't has regulated the price of other natural resources why can't they do it to gas/oil too? Gas is double taxed and they can't get rid of or lower either one. Give us a rebate if they supposedly can't reduce the price at the pump, farmers buying bulk fuel get a $.10/litre reduction in fuel why can't the rest of us?

You have some really really good points, IMO that could use some creative solutions. While it may have to be citizenry or local govts taking action rather than the topdog-level doing the right thing.... and probably nothing that's going to help out right now, that's for sure... barring some miracle.

I wonder about the future install and use of maglevs in extreme cold climates like your winters up there.... if it could work in the cold, it'd keep distanced communities connected without the need for fossil fuels ultimately (setting aside the materials manufacture complications being off-dino-juice). Without that, at some point, rural living is going to have to go indie.. i.e., fully self-sustaining and in smaller groups that can sustain themselves--without physically making frequent inter-community contact. One of the reasons I'm still living in California, despite my recurring urge to emmigrate north, is that the climate is largely survivable with fewer complications... of course while I don't have to worry about walking long distances in winter, I'll probably have to deal with other barriers like violent energy hordes, fundie-whackos abducting people for their cults, etc. Hopefully when the real crap begins to flop from the sky down here, those types will all go to Kansas...









re: taxes imposing burdens.... At some point post-peak I would think govts would have to respond to a regional or needs-based fuel rationing system... but in cultures dominated by a capitalist psyche, needs-based rationing rarely gets implementation over credit-based rationing (those that can afford it get it, those that can't don't regardless of need). In CA we have big gas taxes that used to go towards helping clean up messes and keep roads intact (and in the recent past,even fund public transit). But now tax dollars are in such short supply down here, they get re-routed for pork n' profit. All that to say I sympathize with Canadians when they're not getting a benefit from taxes paid. It's a rampant problem in the U.S. and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially my pals to the north.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

local gov't doing something, not in this town. They're too busy rebuilding border markers that the public did not want. They had to be rebuilt after 10years because the idiot who designed them made them look exactly like a washing machine agitator so when the wind blows they twist. They're over 100M tall and were cracking at the bases. They're so tall people don't even see them, before I moved here they had other smaller ones that the public liked but the city needed to spend money. This town is growing quite fast and the public has been screaming for some sort of public transportation system, the city won't do it. Cities smaller than ours have had bus systems for years, but they won't do it because the administration thinks we don't need one. Now they're quite busy pushing the public to pay for a multiplex. This thing is going to be huge - 2 levels high, 4 hockey rinks, 2 skating rinks, 2 basketball courts, tennis courts, speed skating rinks, 4 soccer fields, curling rinks. The only sport not going in is swimming. They got as much funding as they were going to get from the provinical gov'ts and now they're pointing at the public telling us you wanted it, you pay for it - donate. The problem is like with the AB gov't, the city gov't sucks up to the oil companies.


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## Aquaduct (Nov 27, 2003)

Thanks for those links and incisive comments Dov.

Peak Oil Production is for real, and I personally think people are going to have to have a good honest look at the nature of their lifestyles and of their political leaders. Asking these questions would be a good start:

1. Why is it that the public have been encouraged to be so profligate in their consumption of non-renewable energy sources, in the face of the looming threats of peak oil and climate-change?

2. Why is it that the mass media are so generally silent about the real reasons why oil is climbing so rapidly in price?

3. How will governments react to the inevitable shortages of petrol in the near future?

I'll give my take on it, my answers to the questions. Our consumeristic capitalist societies are based on the value of aquisitiveness, of encouraging discontent and greed. Wealthy elites such as the owners of oil companies, of car manufacturers and their assorted fellow travellers and benefactors in govt.s, advertising agencies, TV and radio stations etc. have stood to gain from more and more consumption of oil, and not from renewable energy sources , like windpower, Tesla technology, solar power.

However the heedlessness and plain ignorance of the general public have made them fairly willing to be so manipulated, though there can be little doubt that those who would like to try a different way have often had little choice but to comply with mainstream ways, given the way cities and towns have been structured ie. in the US little public transport, urban design that discourages walking and cycling.

Instead of continuing to suck on the teat of Big Govt. and of Big Business we would be better to start distrusting both parties: it is they who shown woeful leadership and lack of wisdom. It is they who have suppressed the voice of reason that has said we should conserve and aim for a sustainable economy, and not make material acquisition our primary goal in life. IT is THEY who are the LIARS!!!!!!

What will they do when the oil shocks hit? It is very on the cards they will introduce strict laws that enforce petrol rationing, carless days, etc. As in wartimes state govt.s generally become facistic. Their goal is to retain power, keep the brainwashing going. They will be forced to remodel the economy, but will do so to keep the gravy train going for their favourites...the wealthy elites in Big Business. One way of doing that is to tell the public it is a fait'complait that we must all go nuclear. Nuclear power stations are not popular for obvious reasons but because of the massive capital needed to invest in it, and high compliance costs (ie. huge amts of security is needed to guard it from terrorist attacks) only the big boys can benefit.. turn a profit. Big Business doesn't like true competition and so nuclear power will be their choice over solar and tidal and tesla energy machines. And it goes without saying conservation is anathema!! At least in the long-term aims.

So that is roughly what the governments will do, because they almost always do the bidding of the rich. However the people have the choice of idly following their directives like sheep or questioning this choice they will make.


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