# April 2012 Rockstar Mamas and Their Babies (better late than never)



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011
AnnieA (due 7/18) ~ Baby girl born July 17, 2011
MarineWife (due 7/30) ~ Baby boy born July 25, 2011
Baby_Cakes (due 8/16) ~ Baby boy born August 16, 2011
MovingMomma (due 8/9) ~ Baby girl born August 18, 2011
akind1 (due 9/28) ~ Baby girl born October 11, 2011
mom2one (due 10/23) ~ Baby boy born October 21, 2011
jeninejessica (due 12/10) ~ Baby girl born November 29, 2011
Kindermama (due 1/6) ~ Baby boy born January 1, 2012

Last month's thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1346684/march-2012-rockstar-mamas-and-their-babies


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

What do you guys stuff in your pockets for night? I usually stuff a premium PF with a hemp soaker/insert in the middle and they have never leaked. It's rather bulky in front with the OS dipes snapped down once because I have to fold the front of the PF over so I wanted to try something else. Last night I tried a microfiber insert and the hemp insert but it leaked.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> What do you guys stuff in your pockets for night?


LOLOL - being a pathetic sposie user, this first sentence totally made no sense to me for a second







Just thought I would share that!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Oh,









Really heavy rocks to keep the kids in bed!









Chocolates so I can easily snack if I wake up hungry in the middle of the night.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We had a much better night of sleep last night. I wish I knew why so I could replicate it. I dressed him in long pants and a long-sleeved shirt instead of a onesie because it's cold at night and he always kicks the covers off. I gave him some teething tablets before bed and again in the middle of the night when he woke. I got his new unpolished amber necklace yesterday and put it on him right away. Plus, I think Mercury is now fully out of retrograde so maybe things are settling down. He actually fell asleep in my arms rather than me having to lay down and nurse him to sleep while he kicked the crap out of me. Oh, and I found some Kali/Phos homeopathic tablets I had for leg cramps that are also good for sleeplessness so I took some before bed and my mind didn't keep me up racing like usual.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I just do a microfiber insert. My Flips don't leak but my BG 4.0s do sometimes. I think because the lining extends past the seams. DD is sleeping better too but I thought it was because she's just so utterly exhausted after all our comings and goings this week with the big kids.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I just do a microfiber insert. My Flips don't leak but my BG 4.0s do sometimes. I think because the lining extends past the seams.


Hm...I don't think it's the diaper since they've never leaked with the PF and hemp insert. Maybe it's because the microfiber insert doesn't fit properly? Too narrow or something.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

subbing!!

1ht...

I use sposies at night. But i do put earplugs in my pocket so i can use them if i need them!!









I'm exhausted. I jinxed it when i posted about the 9-4 sleeping. He's waking a ton now! Teething i'm sure and trying to crawl at times during the day.

I went out today and finished easter basket shopping. I hadnt looked in the baby food aisle before b/c it always creeps me out... but there are so many snacky baby food items! I got finn rice milk based drops, some bars, some puffs. They didn't have this stuff even 3 years ago. I also got him another sippy cup with a straw.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Omg. Guys, I weighed Finn on my scale and he's 24.6 lbs!? Wtf!!? He's not even 8 mo yet!! No wonder my arms can't hold him for more than a few min.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, OMG!!! DD was 14 lbs 9 oz at her dr appt on Monday. I don't know how you carry him at all!!! Yes there are lots of snacky things for babies. DD is getting purplr puffs and some kind of apple-carrot sticks in her basket. Bibs and these little plastic shot glasses that are the perfect size for her to drink out of. Hahaha! Plus a new Eric Carle board book. The big kids are each getting a book, card/dice game and candy. We don't do big baskets here.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, maybe that's the problem. Or the insert isn't enough for overnight for her. Maybe I need to add the newborn insert too?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ That is one huge baby!







I can't imagine holding him. I can't hold Dylan for long and he's maybe just 20 lbs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> MW, maybe that's the problem. Or the insert isn't enough for overnight for her. Maybe I need to add the newborn insert too?


But I had two inserts in there like I usually do. I usually use a PF and a hemp insert and have never had a problem. It's something with the microfiber. Either it doesn't fit properly or it's not as absorbant as a PF (but I thought they were supposed to be really absorbant). I wanted to start using the microfiber inserts in the pockets since I have so many and use my PF as just diapers.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Baby_Cakes, OMG!!! DD was 14 lbs 9 oz at her dr appt on Monday. I don't know how you carry him at all!!! Yes there are lots of snacky things for babies. DD is getting purplr puffs and some kind of apple-carrot sticks in her basket. Bibs and these little plastic shot glasses that are the perfect size for her to drink out of. Hahaha! Plus a new Eric Carle board book. The big kids are each getting a book, card/dice game and candy. We don't do big baskets here.


He's HUGE, right?!? My goodness gracious! I really cannot hold him for long, but I do carry him around on my hip a lot. I probably would get more done if I'd just use my damn ring sling. I use the Boba exclusively when we are out, no other carriers.

I think I may have bought a lot of stuff for both of them since I just pick it up when I see it. I got some plastic eggs to hide and candy to fill them. I got N the easter mr potato head, a new Look and Find book, some toys, candy. Target had a 16" 2 wheeler bike with training wheels on it on sale this week for $59, so we decided to get it for her. I think DH wants to give it to her for Easter, but i'm not sure about that association. Why would the easter bunny bring her a bike? I just want to surprise her with it. I'll see if I can talk him into waiting or telling her it's from us.

Nora's allergies are horrible. She was up for an hour and a half, from about 1230 to 2, in the middle of the night coughing and her nose was running. She came into my bed, but woke Finn up with her coughing and I was an exhausted mess. I told her she had to go back in her room b/c of the coughing. She wasn't happy about that. I got Finn back asleep, and then lay with her in her bed while she coughed and coughed until the triaminic kicked in and she finally slept. I went back to sleep with Finn, who THANK GAWD only woke up again around 330 and then again at 630, and then Nora came bouncing it at 8 am ready to go for the day. Coffee is my bff today, I swear!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ i've been meaning to tell you that hyland's does make kids allergy remedy in liquid and dissolving tablets. I got some tablets for Ethan but we haven't used them yet. The tablets might not be an option for you since they are lactose. Not sure where the lactose comes from.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ i've been meaning to tell you that hyland's does make kids allergy remedy in liquid and dissolving tablets. I got some tablets for Ethan but we haven't used them yet. The tablets might not be an option for you since they are lactose. Not sure where the lactose comes from.


You know, I was using the colic tablets and the pulsatilla and didn't realize they both had lactose. Good thing my kids aren't actually galactosemic.









I can't stop eating today. Yesterday was the same! I'm still overproducing milk like crazy and my appetite is just insane. Oh well, I guess. Anyone else go thru something like this?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I have days when I can't seem to stop eating. I think I might finally have gotten to the point where I'm not leaking anymore. I went all day yesterday without a bra and my shirt didn't get wet. I'll have to do that a few more days before I'm convinced enough to go out in public without pads, but that will be so nice!

Sean is driving me crazy! I swear, he is so stupid. I can't explain it but he says the dumbest things and he can't seem to think any further than the obvious or solve any problems. If things don't go exactly how he plans or wants, he gives up. It's really hard for me to respect or like him when he acts like that.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I leak all the time. All the time!! I leak thru the damn pads on the other side when he's nursing. My boobs get so hard and lumpy be feedings. This just didn't happen with nora. maybe be cause I pumped more of the time when she was an infant? Maybe he is more hungry because he is bigger? It's painful, messy...but I am grateful for my supply. I can't complain too much bc I am feeding this huge baby.

I hear you on the annoying dh front. I won't go into detail but we had a huge blow up fight yesterday. Huge. I almost took the kids and left...not intending forever but just for space. I was so angry I didn't want him near them.

I didn't leave tho. We argued, yelled,cried, swore at each other. Got it all out. It was so therapeutic!! Maybe you and Sean need a no holds barred argument to air out all the feelings and hostility, too.

Im so tired. More then i've ever been. And we still need to do the baskets and hide the plastic eggs!! Nora is really fighting sleep and coughing. Please let this night be decent!!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I had the same problem with oversupply with Ethan. I made a huge amount of milk and leaked for at least a year, maybe more. With Kellen things weren't as bad. Maybe there's something about the 2nd child that makes you make way more milk than needed.









I don't know if an airing out would work. I'm not angry at Sean. I just think he's stupid. If I told him what I really think of him, everything might just fall apart. I need to really work on accepting him for who he is. I don't know how to say this without sounding conceited (which I really am not). I've always know he wasn't as smart as me. I thought it wouldn't matter because he had so many other good qualities. I think it's pretty normal for one person in a relationship to be smarter than the other. I don't think it's very likely for any two people to have completely equal intelligence or share any other trait equally. KWIM? Over the years, though, it has started to annoy me more and more.

Here's a petty example. We were ordering something from Amazon. Ethan asked if he should click the free two day shipping deal. I said not to because you have to sign up for an introductory free prime account that automatically starts billing you if you don't remember to cancel it (and I'm notorious for not canceling those things in time). However, there was very clearly a notice across the top of the screen that said "free super saver shipping" for purchases over $25. When Sean went to check out, he almost picked the 2-5 day fee shipping. I caught him and asked why he didn't pick the free 3-8 day shipping or whatever it was. He said because I had said not to. He didn't even read the option, look at them, figure out which was best. He was just automatically going to pay for something that could be free. Stupid, especially after he was having a coniption about spending money on toy muskets that boys wanted after we visited Fort Macon today!

I'm sure that sounds very petty to you all, and I know that it is to a certain extent. But we have to deal with his stinginess when we want something but then he goes and wastes money just like that? WTH?


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I think I need to go off of caffeine. Is that totally insane to consider? Of course, I'm so tired all the time that I don't think it's helping anyway. I just noticed that I've been sore and achy more often than not the past couple of months and I've been drinking a lot more caffeine. Or maybe I just need to stop drinking diet coke. I know it's not good for me. I drink it at work at night because I don't like the coffee here. Maybe I should start buying sparkling water again and drink that instead.

DD's sleep has been horrible the past couple of nights but I know it's because she's been so busy and engaged with the big kids home that she doesn't have time to focus on eating. So she eats all night. Last night, I got to bed around 11:30 PM. I was up at 1:30 AM and she had eaten a couple of times between that. I was up again at 2:30 AM because she ran out of the milk I brought back in the room at 1:30 AM and then she was up at 5:45 AM. During those last few hours, she was eating probably every 30 mins. Oh and when I woke up at 2:30 AM, I had to put the easter baskets together. I feel like I haven't slept at all. I'm shoving candy in my face trying to stay awake at work.

I wonder if the caffeine in my breastmilk makes DD a light sleeper? Is that possible?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I wonder if the caffeine in my breastmilk makes DD a light sleeper? Is that possible?


I think it's possible. The first thing my mom suggested when I mentioned Dylan not sleeping well was for me to lower my caffeine intake. I don't drink a lot, though, and I don't drink any after 5 pm. You can always try cutting it out and see what happens. It certainly can't hurt anything (unless you struggle to stay awake and get very irritable like I do).

Ryan filled Easter baskets for me and Sean.









To continue my dh complaint, we can't even have a normal conversation. We were talking about moving and how we would handle things with trying to show the house and what-not. I told Sean that me and the boys could go stay with my mom about 6 months before Sean has to move. That way he could get the house cleaned up and keep it clean to show. Of course, that sort of defeats the purpose of the move if it's so that Sean gets an assignment that keeps him home and with us. Anyway, Ethan decided we all should just live with my mom so he could have the dog. Sean started going into this long list of can'ts and won'ts and why that wasn't a good idea, always negative. One thing was the cost of gas in the Jeep because it would be at least a 40 minute drive one way to and from work for him. Ethan told Sean he could get another car. It's time, anyway, he said, because the Jeep is old and going to break down soon. Sean says, "I don't know if we can afford another car payment now." I couldn't help looking at him like he was the dumbest guy on the planet.

Now, let me tell you why I thought that. We had just had a talked a few days prior about replacing the Jeep. It's not a family-friendly car. There's not room for 3 car/booster seats (although, I guess Ethan could sit in the front since there's no airbag). We can't trade cars because it's a jalopy and I'm scared to drive it. I told Sean that if everything goes well, we can pay off the credit card and then start sending extra money for the Harley payment. Once that's paid off we can replace the Jeep with something safer. I don't even care if it's another Jeep as long as it's not half rusted and falling apart. So, yeah, we had just talked about plans for replacing the Jeep.

In addition to that, the conversation with Ethan was about what to do when we have to move a year or so from now. We weren't in any way talking about what to do now or next week or even next month. So, a statement about how we can't afford another car payment right now is totally irrelevant. To me, it's either Sean being negative and just not really thinking about or considering anyone else's ideas or being stupid and not being able to follow a normal conversation or remember what was discussed just a few days prior.

Some other stupid, silly things that tell me he's not thinking. The cat was making all kinds of noise swinging the cat door toward him instead of just pushing through it. I asked if someone had locked it. Sean glanced at it but didn't really look and said no. I looked right at it and said, "Um, yeah, it's locked on this side." Wouldn't common sense tell you that it's most likely locked if the cat is doing that? Why else would the cat be swinging it toward himself?

We had recently watched Captain America. I wondered aloud if they somehow digitally changed the body of the actor who played Captain America and asked Sean if he _knew_. Sean said it was a different actor. I asked him if he _knew_ that or if he was just assuming. He said, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure." So, he didn't actually _know_ like I had asked. He was assuming.







I looked it up and, sure enough, his body was digitally changed to be the skinny guy.

I'm sure all of that seems really nitpicky but it's so typical of Sean. He doesn't know anything. He assumes a lot. He's almost always wrong. You'd think after a while he'd learn not to assume and instead ask questions or investigate, but no. He'd rather stick his head in the sand and be like all the other sheeple. Ugh!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah I think I need to start by cutting out the diet coke. In the mornings, I only usually get about 1 cup of coffee in me, sometimes not even that. I think it's the diet coke that's making me feel so bad. I really want to do a juice/raw food cleanse but I don't think that's a good idea to do when I'm still pumping. I'm always struggling to stay awake so that won't be anything new!

I'm having issues w/my DH right now too. I just don't understand why simple directions are apparently so freaking hard to follow. We got in to a small argument Friday night. I went out to finish easter basket shopping and asked DH to get the middle three kids in bed early because we had a big day planned on Saturday. When I got home at 10 PM, they were all in the living room (including DH) watching Enchanted. WTH?!? I was just beyond tired and frustrated at that point. Ugh. DHs sometimes...


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I really want to do a juice/raw food cleanse but I don't think that's a good idea to do when I'm still pumping.


I've been wanting to do a cleanse for years but I've always either been TTC or nursing. It's definitely not a good idea to do while nursing or pumping because it releases the toxins into your bloodstream to, hopefully, be flushed out. All that stuff would definitely get into your breastmilk.

Following directions and taking care of the kids...ugh! Sean is supposed to take the boys upstairs around 9 pm to get them ready for bed. He's then supposed to get them settled and into bed before I go up with Dylan so I don't have to fight with Dylan to sleep while they are still up and making noise. He hasn't done it since we've been back from NH. I have to remind every night what time it is. I give him an hour before going up and the TV is on and the boys are bouncing off the walls upstairs. Then I have to be the bad guy and turn off the TV and tell everyone to go to bed.









It's like Sean has no backbone. He stands in the middle of the room and tells the boys the same thing over and over while they completely ignore him and then he just walks away. Later, he'll wonder why they never do what he asks. I think he expects me to tell the boys to listen to their father. Not going to happen. If he can't do it, too freakin' bad. Most of the time I don't agree with whatever orders he's giving, anyway.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ugh, before I type a long post, I will do a test. our browsers are being stupid lately and not letting me submit content.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

hooray! it worked!

ok: MW: It's very hard to have a good marriage without respect - I think that is a HUGE issue with my MIL and FIL and why they will never really be together (they currently share a home, but that really is as far as it goes - it's been that way for years) - she doesn't respect him, thinks he's stupid, etc. And he's not. He doesn't think, he's not a planner, and has a super short attention span. He also doesn't have a good bullsh*t detector (always forwarding crap on the internet that is of dubious truth - I beleive some of the conspiracy theory stuff has some truth to it, but not all of it, as an example). I think it would really help to focus on the good things - I mean, you can't change the man, after all, and I think it will help the things that aren't so great either seem like funny quirks, or something else that is no big deal.

I agree about alot of things in marriage not being equal. I think I'm smarter (book wise) than my DH, and I think he'd agree. But he's way more tech savvy than I am, or care to learn to be. (I say that because I am sure I could learn and be that way, I just don't want to LOL) - but learning to accept each other is a HUGE deal.

LOL about the cat!

Carrie: hope something can help Nora, how miserable! and when is Chris home again? all this travel sucks. Nora looked like she loved her bike!

Annie: could you use some extra b12? that might help your energy more, and with less effect on Ava. I NEED my caffeine.

Haven't heard from JJ in a while, hope she's ok

AFU: Being without Gabe was sooo hard. I missed him, and didn't realize how much until we got him back Sunday. Funny thing, this first time away made DH realize that it wasn't so bad, and we could maybe do things like that more often. I feel like I don't ever want him to go away again! at least no time soon. He had fun though, and we survived. If I hadn't had Norah, there is no way I could have managed.

so, Saturday we went to this Eco-baby basics event at a locally owned shop that has organic clothes, CD, etc (I already do and know about all the stuff talked about, but went to support friends who were speaking, and to be a BW'ing model) and I won a Phil and Teds Expolorer stroller. thing retails for $500. woot! I think I am going to clean up and sell our double sit and stand, we really never use it, and I can get a doubles kit for this thing, or the scooter to attach with it, for around $100. (Retail, we will see if I can find a deal) I also had a hormone migraine and puked twice. Thank God mom keeps phenergan in the house.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm always telling DH to stand up for himself, and not be a pushover if I'm being a nag or being too bossy. He doesn't think for himself. I feel a lot of similar frustration that you do. But I'm constantly telling DH he needs to have an opinion and not give in to me all the time.

If I have an idea and he disagrees with it, he won't voice that concern, he'll silently go along with it and then angry later that I didn't "ask him what he wanted to do". Burns me up!! If you think i'm wrong, say so!

It also bothers me that we have been together for 12+ years and he still doesn't know/care what bothers me or how to comfort me. I always end up comforting him when we argue. I could be crying or mad or angry or whatever, and he still acts like an uncomfortable teenager, unsure of himself. I have told him all this. I don't feel like it ever gets thru.

Sigh.

Relationships are hard.

We just got P90X and DH seems like he's really excited about it. I want to do it too, but I have no idea when I'll find the time. He's gone 2 days out of this week, and next week he's gone Sun- Fri again. With sleep being as poor as it is lately, I doubt I'll want to work out while Finn naps, I'll prob nap with him.

Omg Finn was so congested last night/this morning. I think teething related, but idk, maybe a cold? Either way, at 4 he was obviously not able to breathe. I flipped on the humidifier and it helped a little, but he really could not get comfortable. He was somewhat alseep tho, so I didn't want to completely wake him up by getting up and sucking his nose. I let him sleep on my chest on a bit of an incline. He did much better that way. Still woke up at 7 tho. More coffee please!

Oh - re caffeine. I just read a study that says that the amount of coffee you drink had no impact on infant sleep. I do think babies can be sensitive to caffeine, personally, but I don't think it interferes with how deeply or soundly they sleep. I think if anything, Lauri, cut back the soda. I find when I go from coffee in the morning, to soda in the afternoon, I do feel like crap. And I drink diet. Maybe it's the artificial sweeteners? Maybe not tho, b/c if I drink crystal light type iced tea, I don't feel the same bad effects.

I joke with DH that my day revolves around coffee in the am, soda in the afternoon, and wine at night to relax. Repeat.

We got some great photos yesterday of the kids. Can't wait to get them up. Nora is doing wonderfully on her two wheeler (took off like a pro the first ride!) and Finn was such a cutie! Lots of pics to go thru so going to get started. BBL!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ Wow, what luck winning that stroller! I've never seen one IRL or used one but I know they are popular. They sure are expensive, at least.

Since you brought up organic baby clothes, do you know where to get any online? I've been searching for some long-sleeved, long pant rompers/sleepers/PJs for Dylan because he kicks the covers off at night but can't find much of anything larger than 6 months.

Annie ~ Could you switch from soda to tea so you'd still get some caffeine but without all the soda chemicals? If you make your own and want 0 calories, you can sweeten it with Stevia (Truvia is the best tasting brand I've found so far).

Carrie ~ My dh does a lot of what your dh does. But, be careful wishing that he'll stand up to you. Sean used to always go along with whatever I wanted until he came back from the Marine Corps Officer Candidate School. Then I became the only person he would stand up to. It really pisses me off. It makes me feel even less important because he'll go along with others just to make them happy/not rock the boat but he'll either argue with or ignore me.

I was thinking more about why these little things bother me so much. I think a large part of it is it's family/home stuff that he seems to be dumb about. That's the most important thing in life to me, knowing the people you love. He can't be bothered, though. He can't take the time to notice or remember what we like or dislike, what is ours, that sort of thing. He's accommodating to complete strangers that he'll never see again at the expense of us.

An example of that happened last night. When we went to bed I told Sean to make sure he closed the downstairs windows. I have to tell him every night or else he won't do it even though common sense would say to close them for safety reasons just like he doesn't think to lock the doors (Doesn't he care enough about his family to do everything he can to keep us safe? Apparently not). Someone could easily climb in through those windows and kill us all. It was warm upstairs, though, so I said that I was wondering whether or not to open the upstairs windows. It was too warm at that time for me to sleep but it has been getting cold at night even with the windows closed and I didn't want to get woken up in the middle of the night freezing. Of course, I don't get a straight answer from him because he doesn't know how to solve a problem and make a decision.







I finally went and opened a few of the upstairs windows. He went downstairs to clean the kitchen, close the windows and lock the doors. I came down this morning to find half the windows still open. When asked if he had closed them last night, he said, "Oh, I thought you wanted them open because you were warm." Um, hello, idiot! I ALWAYS close the downstairs windows. I would never leave them open just like I would never leave the doors unlocked. If you knew me, you'd know that. Even if you don't know me, it's pretty freakin' stupid to leave the house wide open for anyone to enter, especially since I recently had my GPS stolen from my car (that he left unlocked because he never locks anything and laughs at me for locking things during the day).

But, yeah, Kat, like I said before, there's really no point in having it out with him. We've been around and around about this sort of thing and he never gets it. I need to work on accepting him the way he is or accepting that our marriage will not last. He's not going to change. My problem is that I take that as him not caring enough to make an effort. All of that is a trigger for me because it makes me feel the same way my mother made me feel. She never could be bothered to pay attention to me, to really get to know me, to care about my likes and dislikes. She was too busy with her own social life and I never felt like she loved me. It's pretty horrible when a child feels like she isn't even worthy of her own mother's love. Anyway, I spent a lot of years in our early marriage working on accepting his "quirks". It became so much work. I don't think it should be so much work just to be able to stand being around the person you are married to, ya know?


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: this site looks awesome, not the cheapest stuff, but I've found that alot of the organic cotton stuff lasts and holds up better, so maybe worth it. http://www.urthchild.com/clothes---shoes-rompers.html

I am not big on arguing and confrontation. The older I get, the less I feel it's worth it. My DH Is the opposite, locks the car at times and places I think it's silly (like when we are at a family gathering out in the country, sitting outside in full view of the car) It's hard work, marriage, I think. Is part of the problem the fact he's been gone so much the last few years? is any of it likely to improve with him being home permamently?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Is part of the problem the fact he's been gone so much the last few years? is any of it likely to improve with him being home permamently?


I used to think maybe but not really anymore. He has always been like this to a certain extent but he used to at least make an effort. Now he just does whatever without really thinking. After 13 years of going around and around about the same things, if he hasn't gotten it yet, he's not going to. He's not making any effort to know us any better.

Another example, yesterday as we were leaving I was in the house searching all over for my phone that I had put next to the door. After several minutes I asked if anyone had seen it. At that point Sean said he had it in his pocket. He was around me at the car and in the garage and didn't mention that he picked up my phone? Why wouldn't you say something about that? "Hey, I got your phone." He thought I forgot it even though I was clearly not ready to leave yet since my purse was still in the house. He just assumed, which he always does even though he's almost always wrong. I told him the safest assumption he could make was to not assume. I've been telling him that for years. Don't assume you know what's going on. Ask. It's not hard to ask.

What I need is an IRL girlfriend who I can call up to bitch about my dh who will just listen to me rant.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, you should check out Hanna Andersson pjs. They are super comfy, organic and great colors. They are pricey but they last a long time. www.hannaandersson.com

Husband and wife dynamics...yeah it's hard. I joke sometimes that it would be easier for my mom, sister and I to just live together because we've been together for so long that we do everything pretty much the same way. Our poor husbands bear the brunt of us getting frustrated and micromanaging them because they do things differently. For instance, the windows thing wouldn't have bothered me at all. But I tend to be the one that leaves cars and houses unlocked all the time.







But it would frustrate me if we had had that specific conversation, he agreed and then did the opposite. Or completely misinterpreted it.

DD is really missing her big brothers and sisters. They went to their mom's last night and they had been with us for 10 days. This morning, she kept pointing to their rooms and when I would take her in there, her face would fall and she would start looking around for them.







I kept telling her that they had to go back to school and we'll see them soon. I think I'm going to try to take her to their school during lunch this week so she can see them.

Re: caffeine. Yeah I'm definitely cutting out the diet coke. I know the chemicals in it are super bad for me. I've never drank as much soda as I do now. I started when I started working the evening shifts. So no more diet coke. I also got coffee last night that is half-caff. I don't drink that much coffee anyways so I really think if she's having an issue, it's the soda. I need to do a better job of taking my thyroid med and also my prenatal vitamin. That will help with my energy level also.

I've been considering doing the 30-day shred video. Has anyone had any experience with that? I joined the July 2011 DDC on FB and a lot of the mamas on there have done or are doing the 30-day shred. The workout is only 20 mins at a time. I figure I can make it through that!

akind1, what a score on winning that stroller! I would be so excited!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Nice win on the stroller, kat! I missed that before! Sweet!!!

I did the 30 day shred. Ok, no I didn't. It's HARD.







I did it for like 3 days and then gave my dvd away to someone else. It sounds so freaking easy, 20 min here and there, but man. It's a grueling 20 min. That said...I kind of wish I still had it.

I didn't care for Jillian Michaels on the dvd. she is very uncomfortable in front of the camera and it made getting thru the workout hard. Almost comical. She is much better on The Biggest Loser and not talking directly at the tv camera.

Ugh, MW. I so so so so hear you on needing the girlfriend IRL. I think it would help me a lot too. I need to laugh at and vent about certain behaviors of his, but I can't b/c I have no one to do that with. I used to with D. Then after she moved, I realized the venting was much too complain-y to translate to text messages or long phone calls.

I'm really optimistic about this new friend/mama I've met on my street. Her DD is 16 mo and she is TTC another. She doesn't seem overly crunchy, accidentally weaned her DD early on by getting too busy. But she's RIGHT THERE down the block. We meet for stroller walks and the other night hung out in my back yard.

Reminds me, I need to call her. She called me yesterday and I forgot to call back what with the holiday.

I think Finn has a cold. He's congested. Either that or teeth are really just about to cut. He is very drippy and runny.

I had EWCM this morning, and now all day I've had menstrual type cramps that feel exactly like AF. I keep checking. It makes no sense and I'm so confused!!! Ugh! But proud I held out and didn't start hormonal BCP or get an IUD. Now I know my body is just doing what it needs to. I would like a break from the crazy pms hormones though! I am acting like such a bitch to everyone!!


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I had EWCM this morning, and now all day I've had menstrual type cramps that feel exactly like AF. I keep checking. It makes no sense and I'm so confused!!! Ugh! But proud I held out and didn't start hormonal BCP or get an IUD. Now I know my body is just doing what it needs to. I would like a break from the crazy pms hormones though! I am acting like such a bitch to everyone!!


Once again, stalker girl jumping in! I really need to make some time to sit down and reply one of these days.

When I get EWCM and am ovulating I feel exactly like when AF is there. Does that happen to everyone? Once I started charting and knew I was ovulating I couldn't believe I EVER missed it. It sucked almost as much as AF.

Anyways - I need to take a shower real quick. I really do need to actually reply for real and stop being a stalker..........


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks for those links. I bookmarked them. They've got some things on sale so they aren't too pricey.

I haven't done either of those workouts. I did tell Sean a few days ago that I'd like to start doing my yoga DVD again. I also got my old magazines out with monthly workout to countdown to the summer. They worked for me before. I haven't actually done anything yet, though. I wouldn't do it while Dylan was napping. I'd want to do it while he was up and Sean was in charge of him. I think the reason I haven't started is because I know I won't have the time once Sean goes back to work. I know I'm not going to work out at 8 pm. I'll stick to walking around the block during the day when I get to it. I fantasize about the day when Ethan is old enough to babysit so I can go to the gym for a couple of hours every day like I used to.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm here, also stalking. lol. It's been a rough couple days on and off. We'll have a really good patch, and then she'll melt down, and then I'll melt down... I am not proud of my lack of patience lately. I think it's the lack of sleep. I am a person who -really- needs my sleep, and it's been several weeks since I've gotten more than 2 good hours at a time. -She- has slept longer stretches (not by much though...), but I'm always trying to catch up on stuff at the end of the night, so I don't get to bed until a few hours after her... but that time I've usually missed her long stretch. Anyways, so I'm tired, and cranky. I was doing alright just napping with her in the afternoon, and then she started boycotting it- and now is only sleeping about 45 minutes in the afternoon. So by the time I've finished nursing her, she's fully asleep, and I try to lay down beside her, she's already waking up. I did suck it up though today, and for her afternoon nap I nursed her for about 25 minutes, and then basically didn't move a muscle for 3 hours other than to nurse her again twice. She slept for almost three hours, and now is in a great mood. I'm hoping maybe it will remind her how nice it is to feel rested  lol

I -love- 30 day shred, as well as her other videos. They're short enough that I was able to make time for them, and at the end of it, I really did feel like I'd gotten a good workout. After about a week I could already feel signfiicant changes in my body- I would reach for something, and feel muscles tighten that weren't there before. I miss it  I can't seem to find the time to sit down and do a workout now. She's not happy alone for long enough during the day, and at night, it's too loud while she's sleeping.

Kat-- SO GREAT about the stroller! Nice!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> I'm always trying to catch up on stuff at the end of the night, so I don't get to bed until a few hours after her... but that time I've usually missed her long stretch.


Stop trying to catch up on things. Just go to bed. The other stuff isn't really that important when compared to being a well-rested mother to your baby.







Let it go.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yes, but easier said than done when it's things like brushing my teeth, showering, eating, washing diapers, etc... lol. They need to be done sometime, and if I try to do them while she's awake she cries. I'm not talking sparkling floors... I'm talking being able to find the floors! LOL


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: I know you do this already, but maybe do it more? babywear! I just ordered a water ringsling for the pool; outside in the sprinkler, etc. (might have to come in the shower too!) You will get those things done while she's content - have you tried her on your back in the babyhawk? - and then you can sleep. You need to sleep!

Our house is a wreck. need to work on that.

I LOVED the p90x videos. Tony never gets old for me. I haven't tried many others, I know the FIRM videos I thought were ridiculous

I think I just O'd. ugh. Hormone headache, ewcm . . . just waiting for CM to dry up to confirm.

Norah must be going through a growth spurt or something, it took forever to nurse her down (I wanted to get back up and eat ice cream .. . . didn't happen) she nursed more through the night, and wouldn't take a paci, than I remember her doing in a long, long time. she woke at 6:30 to nurse again, and continued to nurse for over an hour. ugh. so late start to my day!

she is butt scooting (which looks like she's just sitting, but she moves her legs in such a way that she moves her self across the floor). A friend of mine's baby never crawled, she just butt scooted until she walked.

I love my IRL friends, crunchy or not, there are things they can relate to. Just couldn't do without them!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Yes, but easier said than done when it's things like brushing my teeth, showering, eating, washing diapers, etc... lol. They need to be done sometime, and if I try to do them while she's awake she cries. I'm not talking sparkling floors... I'm talking being able to find the floors! LOL


Honestly, except for eating and brushing your teeth, the rest can wait. I showered maybe once a week before Sean got home. Your dh can wash the diapers and pick up. I seriously doubt your house gets messier than mine since Tenley is the only child you have so I'm sure you can see the floors.







Not only can we not see the floors a lot of the time but everything is sticky.







That's how it is when you have kids.

Dylan scooted on his butt a little. It was cute. It did look like he wasn't moving but somehow he's get across the floor. hehe


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Honestly, other than pumping, I don't do any of those things if I really need to sleep! There are a lot of days that I haven't eaten at all when I leave the house at 3 PM to go to work. If we have had a bad night sleeping, I will forgo just about everything to sleep if DD is sleeping. I've even mastered washing the dipes in between naps.

So either this is a coincidence or I deserve bad mama of the month award. DD has been sleep like crap basically since she got since in Feb. Waking every 1-2 hrs to eat and for the past week, waking every 30 mins or so to eat. The other night, the thought passed through my mind that maybe she was cold in the middle of the night. Not sure why I thought that, I think maybe she was breathing differently but anyways, I covered her with a heavier blanket and she slept for a couple of hours. I covered her with a heavier blanket the last two nights and her sleep has been much better. Coincidence or have I been freezing my child?!?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Coincidence or have I been freezing my child?!?


IDK but don't feel bad. I did almost exactly the same thing. We'd been dressing Dylan in just a short-sleeved onesie to sleep. He kicks the covers off all night long and wakes constantly. It finally occurred to me to put long pants or a footed romper on him at night. When I did that he slept a lot better. I started dressing him in the short onesie because I thought maybe he was kicking off the covers because he was hot. Now, I think he just kicks of the covers because he's squirmy and was probably cold as well.







Whatever works for now.

So, I got some Hyland's Calm Forte for Kellen. It's supposed to help with restlessness and other problems with settling down for sleep at night. My intention was to only give it to sometimes at bedtime when he was especially hyper. I'm afraid, though, that Sean has become too dependent on it. Every night he wants to dose up Kellen. It's homeopathic so it won't do any harm but I don't want anyone (especially my kids) getting dependent on a pill in that way. KWIM?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

That's how I feel about the cough medicine for dd BC it's pm formula. I worry she's getting dependent on it to fall asleep, and no, it isn't even homeopathic. So.

Long day. Im sooooo beat!!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

DH rubs a particular blend of essential oils on DS's feet at bedtime - between the oils and the fact he's getting his feet rubbed, bedtime is much easier and he sleeps better. Can he sleep without it? sure. And he did, each night he was with the IL's (but they took turns co-sleeping also). I don't worry about him becoming dependent on something that's good for him. As for the homeopathics - if he does seem to need *something* to balance him out and make him less restless, and it does really help, I don't see the harm. it would almost be like witholding reflux meds. (it does help, baby does need it, and even if they are dependent on it, so what?)

It's coffee time!

I got maybe 4 hours of sleep (not continuous) yay. I want a nap!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Agreed, Kat!

Go get your coffee! I've got my cup! I feel like I half slept *in* the cosleeper last night, lol. I still have it up b/c it's a great place to put things other than a baby. Books, glasses, etc. Finn when I'm doing my hair. That sort of thing.

He's such a scoot-y baby and he doesn't like to be touched when he's sleeping, needs his own space, so as he scoots over, I scoot back -- and my butt ended up hanging over the bed and my pillow was half in the cosleeper. The entire rest of the bed was empty! Haha! But we slept ok last night, especially for him being sick. I got a few hours here and there.

So -- I think I've figured something out. Every time Finn has a new skill or is getting more attention than normal, Nora's attitude and behaviour changes. I think she begins to compete for attention, even if it is bad attention. Now that he is somewhat mobile, scooting in a circle, and almost pushing up to rock on his knees, she is done a 180. He was sitting playing, clapping and she walked over to him completely unprovoked, and pushed him over. He'll be sitting doing nothing but playing with toys, and she kicks him in the back. Kat, I'm starting to see what you were saying about Gabe hitting and hurting Norah. It really does make you feel like they don't like the baby. And that really feels awful!! Especially b/c 99% of the time they are so lovely to them. Sigh.

Nora is so fighting bedtime lately. Ugh. I'm going to go insane when she does it when chris is out of town. I've completely taken advatange of him being home, and I lay in bed with Finn and nurse him down while reading, and he does Nora's teeth, books, songs, etc. Then I do come out and help b/c she's been really...difficult...and I hate to put it that way b/c I feel her behaviour is normal. It's just after a long day...it's tough to not want to just go to sleep!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

We are having so many of the same sibling issues! Gabe wants all the toys. ALL of them. and will grab out of Norah's hands, or sometimes push her over. Though, unless I see it, it's hard to say if she was pushed or if she toppled. Either way, unless she hits her head on the way down or is just tired, she doesn't seem bothered. And I am trying to take the tack that if she's not bothered, then . . . maybe I should just let it go.

I have seen it help for us that I say to Gabe, " (whatever he did) made her sad. lets see if we can make her laugh!" and he does, he loves blowing raspberries at her, and it gets both of them in a better mood. IDK if that would work with Nora and Finn.

Bedtime: DH doesn't travel, but putting Gabe to bed is totally his thing. The only thing I do is PJ's and diaper (honestly though, he's just been sleeping in a t-shirt and diaper. I haven't found any cheap summer pj's yet) Then I tell him, go tell daddy to rub your feet! and he goes to DH and says feet! feet! jumping up and down, and then he runs to get into bed. And I nurse and cuddle Norah to sleep while they do that. I have no idea how to transition them to sleeping in the same room. Maybe if I had a mattress on the floor of that room, I could lay with Norah on it and nurse her to sleep at the same time DH is doing DS's routine? IDK.

I have my coffee. I hope it helps!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm going to try that next time, Kat! If I make it all about him and not about her, I think that'll work. I've been focusing too much on "why is she hurting him, that's wrong" rather than what you're saying. Ok. Now I have at least somewhat of a plan.

Nora is excited for school today. The 4 year old class is doing an egg hatching project. She's excited to see if any more chicks have hatched!! Fun project. I'm choosing not to think about what's going to happen to the chicks once the farmer comes to pick them up.

No idea how to do same rooms either -- but your kids seem to be better sleepers than mine. At this point I think in our new house when we move, they'll have separate rooms. It would only make sense since I'm sure once Nora is a pre-teen/teen she'll want her own space.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ethan was 3.5 when Kellen was born. He loved, loved, loved Kellen until Kellen started to move. Then he hated him!







The little ones have a really hard time dealing with having another little person who doesn't seem to understand any kind of boundaries. Makes sense to me. I haven't had that problem with Kellen, maybe because he's a little older or maybe because he's always had to share space, time and things.

Ethan was cute last night explaining to me that Dylan is always on the move because he's new to this world and exploring whereas Kellen is just hyper.









I don't really know if Kellen needs something to help him calm down because it doesn't seem to be making him more calm. That's why Sean keeps dosing him more and more. Like, the directions say to give 2 tablets every 15 for 8 doses at first and then 2 tablets every 4 hours or something like that as needed. We started giving him a dose around 9 pm when we first start getting everyone ready for bed and would continue to give him some until bedtime or whatever. It didn't seem to make a difference. Kellen was still bouncing off the walls until he crashed. So, Sean decided to start giving to them sooner and follow the directions of giving them to him every 15 minutes for 8 full doses. The thing is that I don't think it's really helping (if you can call it that) and I'm not sure Kellen needs it.

It's not that Kellen fights sleeping. Once it's time to turn everything off and get in bed, he does. But as long as people are up, he still wants to play. Seems normal for a 4 year old. Once in bed he flops and squirms for a while before he finally falls asleep but that's usually when he's not sleepy yet. I have noticed that he will settle and not squirm so much if someone is actually cuddling with him. And, if I wait until he's really sleepy he'll fall asleep without a problem.

I think it's the whole dynamic of the situation that bothers me. It's not a problem to Kellen. It's a problem to Sean because the high energy bothers him. Rather than accepting Kellen for who he is, he's trying to make him different and going as far as drugging him to do that. Is that really any different than the parent who gives her baby Benadryl so he'll sleep through the night? I guess Sean said something about Kellen having ADHD (which I don't doubt he would get labeled with if he were sent to school) because Ethan told me Kellen had it so matter-of-factly. I don't like that at all. I don't want negative labels attached to my kids even if they do seem to fit. Anyway, I feel like I'm going around in circles and not quite explaining what I'm thinking or feeling about this.

I do see a huge, huge difference between getting a massage (even with relaxing essential oils) and getting pills (even if those pills are homeopathic). That's the same type of difference between me getting acupuncture or taking antidepressants except that I get to make that choice. Kellen does not.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

If the homeopathics aren't making a difference, then I wouldn't bother. But if they did help, I would see no issue with using them on a regular basis. While I see some of what you're saying (that his activity doesn't bug him, but does bother Sean) - we also don't live in a bubble, and some consideration of others needs to be made. Also, if Sean can look to why he thinks the kids should calm down (is it a hold over from how he thinks kids "should" act or sometimes, in some kids, excessive activity is a sign of extreme tiredness, and he wants to help him do what he doesn't know how to do himself: ie. calm down, so he can get the sleep he needs)

IDK if any of that made sense. As for labels. . . an IRL mama group were discussing this in regards to autism, and why the number is now 1 in 88, is that accurate, why is it, etc. If you were concerned about getting proper medical help, or other interventions to help a child cope with ADD/ADHD (or to help a family cope with a child with that diagnosis - strategies, etc) I think labels can be a helpful, positive thing. I think it gets out of hand when people are like, well, that's just how he/she is - they have X diagnosis. That goes beyond accepting a person for who they are - it's almost brushing off that person and not treating them as any other. I do think kids and families can deal with a diagnosis and manage it without meds, sometimes with behavior therapy or with diet, or other tools not just drugs. And having a label can help families get that assistance. or it goes the other direction, and a diagnosis leads to over-intervention and treatment. (I really don't know if I am making any sense today)

Benadryl: I have no issue with it if it's being given because a child can't sleep due to seasonal or other allergies. Otherwise, why? same with tylenol (baby seems restless and cranky, give tylenol! - please read sarcasm into that)

I too, loved my sister until she could move. then she wanted in to all my stuff. but there is almost 7 years between us, so she really shouldn't have been in my stuff (as in it not developmentally appropriate).

I don't know when kids really understand empathy, but that is what I'm trying to work on with Gabe - to show him that what he does can affect Norah - whether it's pushing her over and making her upset or blowing raspberries at her and making her giggle.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The Benadryl example I gave was not about giving a child allergy meds for allergies. I've said before I don't have a problem with that. As I said, it was about parents who give babies Benadryl for the sole purpose of getting them to sleep through the night. Parents do that. Doctors actually recommend it. My neighbor jokes about giving his 8 year old Benadryl so that he will crash and Dad can sleep. It has nothing to do with treating allergy symptoms.

I'm pretty sure it's just that Sean thinks kids should act a certain way. It's a hold over from the old idea that kids should be seen and not heard. He has a lot of ideas like that that I don't think he's even conscious of. The problem is that Sean won't (can't?) think about whether or not his expectations are reasonable and age appropriate. He had the same kind of difficulty dealing with Ryan being moody and crying when he was 12-13 years old. In Sean's world boys weren't supposed to cry. He thought there was something wrong with Ryan rather than considering that maybe there was something wrong with the pressure put on boys to suppress their emotions. He does the same thing with Ethan wrt his high sensitivity. Sean had said to me several times something or other along the lines of Ethan not being normal. Sean seems to have a hard time accepting kids for who they are. He has very narrow ideas of how people should behave, or at least that's what his behavior conveys.

We got in big fight the other day because Sean got all worked up over Kellen wanting to spray the air freshener. He didn't want Kellen to spray it even once. Went into this whole thing about how it's only for certain times (never explained what those times were) and if Kellen sprayed it now (when it wasn't a time Sean thought was appropriate) there wouldn't be any for when he needed it. My thinking was that the whole point in air freshener is to make things smell nice and can be used anytime you want that smell so there's no harm in Kellen spraying it every once in a while. Plus, there's the whole educational, experimentation thing with Kellen that is totally age-appropriate for a 4 year old. Let him spray the air freshener even several times in different ways and in different areas, spaces, rooms to experience the different effects. It's just freakin' air freshener!

Sean got mad at me for "questioning" him and got all passive/aggressive and said, "Fine! Go wild, Kellen! Spray the whole can everywhere." That was not what I said at all. It's the same concept as finding an acceptable way for your child to jump around when they want to jump all over the furniture. Sean can't see that, though. It's all or nothing with him. If he can't say no, then he won't do anything. I tried to explain to him that he was missing the point but he just wouldn't get it. So, I got angry and told him that maybe if he cared enough, he'd take the time to read and learn about such things. He said he doesn't have time to read so I should just tell him. But I do tell him and he refuses to even consider much less try it. When he's told to read something for work, he finds the time because it's a priority. He needs to make understanding his family and his children a priority like that. If it really mattered to him, he'd find the time. KWIM?

Now I've gone off on another rant.









We don't need labels or diagnoses in order to get medical treatments or learn to cope. You don't need a diagnosis to seek out and learn new ways of dealing with life or situations. The only people who really need labels like ADD/ADHD and even autism are school people or maybe people who want to medicate their children to make their own lives easier. Meds for things like ADHD and autism don't actually treat any dangerous or life-threatening medical issue. They are psychotropic, sometimes anti-psychotic, meds that are used to make the children easier to control in specific situations, like school.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I knew what you meant IRT the benadryl - don't dope a kid up just to sleep - I was just thinking aloud sort of, just in type mode! we do that alot!

The more tired and frustrated I am, the easier it is to revert to a "just do/don't do this" without reason or explanation. That may not be right- but sometimes, it is what happens. A lot of men just want to be told what to do. especially military men, because it's what they are used to - may not be right, or ok at home - but it's a hard mindset to break out of. I hope he can and does, because being on the same parenting page is so important.

I can see for you and your family labels might not mean much or be of much help. But there are famililies and situations where they may be helpful and needed. I think there are things therapists (speech, occupational, etc) do for kids with autism and ADD/ADHD that might be helpful for all children, that maybe wouldn't be thought of otherwise. And sometimes parents do need some help identifying strategies at home. Generally, I am not a big fan of early intervention. I think, given time, unless there are bigger issues at play, most kids will catch up, and even surpass their peers. Take Gabe. I see so many of his age mates speaking in whole, well enunciated sentences. Gabe doesn't. He has a ton of single words, and occasionally will put 2 together. But he understands everything, and follows directions remarkably well, compared to some kids his same age or older. So I am not really concerned, but many parents would be. I can take things an EI person might do and incorporate them at home (once you do some research on what those things are) if you are really concerned.

I know school plays a huge part of all this. Since I don't intend to do "school" and don't yet know where we will fall on the homeschool-unschool spectrum, a lot of stuff just doesn't apply. But, a lot of people do school. so a child being able to survive in that environment is crucial, and a diagnosis can help them. I think.

I really don't like any of the meds for ADD/ADHD. i think there are so many other things that can be done to help. (diet, get the kid outside more, etc) but hey, that is another topic!

this came up the other day, and I'm curious: what are ya'lls thoughts on ear piercing for girls? do it? not? and when?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I at times worry that it's not "just age" and that some of Nora's behaviors are either OCD or fall somewhere on the autism spectrum. Then I think -- so what? So what if she needs XY and Z done first in order to feel comfortable?

For example, when we do school drop off, the other children need to still be sleeping (we get there at the end of their nap). Once or twice we have been late getting out of the house, and they are all awake and can be a little overwhelming, rushing up to us and Nora doesn't like that at all. She will cry and cling to me, and beg me not to leave her there. If they're asleep, it's no problem, she skips off into class and can warm right up to the situation. I don't know if that's normal or if that's something I should be concerned about.

Another time, her teacher was already in the room instead of the morning teacher who is usually there. It was enough to freak her out. It reminds me of certain kids that I know with Aspbergers who need strict routine or else they flip.

Again, I don't know if with her it's all age. It really honestly could be, b/c she's doing these things in different ways. Who can cut her sandwich and who cant. Who can take her to the bathroom and who can't. It's about exerting control and power. So. Idk.

School is a tricky thing, too, b/c I'm not even 100% sure I like it for her anymore. You have all planted seeds in my mind!! LOL!

Poor Finn is constipated. It's been...maybe 3 days since his last real poop, and all that I've seen over these past few days are tiny hard rabbit poops. I stopped giving him all the cereal type solids and no bread or anything. Just veggies and fruit.

Earlier I took his dipe off and just massaged his belly and he was trying so hard to poop. TMI, but he did move some out, but then started to cry b/c it hurt. I felt awful for him, but didn't know what to do. Just cleaned him up, wrapped him all back up, and nursed him for a long time. I'm just pushing extra milk, but idk what else to do. I just cut up a bunch of prunes though, to see if that helps. Poor baby. On top of having a cold, he is a real hot mess.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I knew what you meant IRT the benadryl - don't dope a kid up just to sleep - I was just thinking aloud sort of, just in type mode! we do that alot!


Ah, ok. Sometimes I don't know if I was clear.

See, I think that the things both of you described wrt Gabe and Nora are things you can recognize and do something about, if needed, without the labels. Even if you took your child to a therapist of some sort, I would hope that therapist would have strategies for dealing with specific behaviors even if the child didn't have a diagnosis for some disorder or another. KWIM?

I know that some parents feel the need to have the diagnoses and labels to help their children survive in school but I think that's very, very sad for the child. I went through that with Ryan, if you all remember, and it was disastrous. The schools like the labels because they get extra funding but they don't really do anything helpful or worthwhile to help the child succeed. Ryan and I experienced and I've heard about it over and over from other parents dealing with schools and IEPs. It looks nice on paper but it doesn't play out in a way that's good for the child. I would especially urge anyone who has a child who is SN or whatever you want to call it (I'd probably just say different) to avoid school at all costs. Mainstreaming is generally not good for those kids.

I wouldn't worry about whether it's age or even typical. I would think only in terms of my child and what s/he needs to feel good and be happy. All the stuff about age appropriateness and what's typical and not typical is about making the child fit into the environment, which I am opposed to. I think my job as a parent is to make the environment fit my child as much as possible. That doesn't mean that I always expect everything to conform to my child, like letting a young child run around a restaurant because it's normal for young children to have difficulty sitting still. Instead, I just wouldn't go to a restaurant where everyone is expected to sit in their seats for an hour or whatever. I'd pick a place that's more suitable for the child, like Chuck E. Cheese, or I wouldn't eat out with that child until s/he was better able to behave the way expected. For some children, that may be never but that's the sacrifice I would have to make for choosing to bring that child into the world.

That came up in an unschooling info group I'm on, the idea that parents should meet the needs of their children before meeting their own needs because the parents chose to have the children. The children didn't choose to enter this world. The parents have more knowledge and experience and can delay gratification and have learned better self-control and all of that. It's the same idea as in that Dr. Sears article about night waking. That's just the way it is and, as parents, we signed up for it.

WRT ear piercing. I put on the same continuum as circumcision. It's a permanent disfigurement of the body and I wouldn't do it to another person without her consent.

Carrie ~ I was going to suggest foods that would help with constipation. Cut out bananas if he eats those. They can actually cause constipation. And nurse, nurse, nurse. Poor little guy.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> this came up the other day, and I'm curious: what are ya'lls thoughts on ear piercing for girls? do it? not? and when?


I'm with mw. I see it as a cosmetic body modification that should be left up to the person to decide if they want it. I cringe when i see babies with pierced ears, honestly.









Yup, no bananas. I just gave him a nice warm bath too. he's miserable!! I can tell his tummy is hurting him. Boo.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ I didn't respond to your post about how some people, especially military men, need to just be told what to do. I agree and, if it were just a matter of me telling Sean and him doing it, that would be fine. But it's not. I tell him and he gets angry. He used to say in a nice way that he didn't need to read any parenting stuff because I would just tell him. At the time he was open to that. Now he's not. I don't know what has changed. Maybe he feels like I tell him too much but he asked for it. If he doesn't want me to tell him what to do, then he needs to make some effort to learn it for himself. I also think that if someone can read about whatever then they can understand it and internalize it on a deeper level and don't need to be told what to do in every new situation. As it is now, even if Sean does accept my direction in one situation, he doesn't seem to be able to apply the concepts to the next situation. That is very frustrating for me because I feel like I've told him numerous times what to do.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, will he drink prune juice? Maybe from a cup? When DD got really backed up after her second surgery, we had to use a glycerin suppository. It works...FAST! I barely got the diaper back on her!

akind1, I agree w/MW. I view ear piercing like any other body modification. I'm not going to do it w/out her consent.

MW, my only issue w/Kellen's behavior would be if it was ostracizing him with the rest of the family or getting to the point where he has a poor self-image (If he feels like he's always being "harassed" about his behavior) and then I would think it would be helpful for him to get help through behavior modification or medication if it was really bad. DSS 11 has poor impulse control and has taken on the role of the clown in the dysfunctional family life at his mom's house. So he does lots of outlandish behavior to get attention. That coupled with his poor impulse control and he is always getting hounded by his older siblings and mom for his behavior. He has a pretty poor self image because of it. I work with him a lot and try to give him extra attention when he's home with us to help him understand why he acts the way he does sometimes and alternative behavior that he could do to a)release energy or b)get good attention instead of negative attention.

DD did the full sign for potty today! But she didn't need to go potty...







I offered though since she kept doing it. Now I just need her to use it when she needs to go potty!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I think that's why the way Sean is dosing Kellen is bothering me so much. It's not about helping Kellen feel better. It's about making things easier for Sean. If Kellen expressed that he wasn't happy and wanted some help with his behavior, then I don't think it would bother me so much.

I've been meaning to tell you all that Dylan is getting more lovey. He has started laying his head on my shoulder when we are in bed and stuff like that. It's so cute.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think all said and done Finn ate 4 whole prunes today, along with nursing non stop. I didn't offer him any other solids.

I gave him 2 warm baths, another one around 9 b/c I thought maybe if he could relax enough, he would go even in the tub. Lots of grunting and poo faces but still no poop. He's asleep in bed now, I hope it isn't a horrible night! Is prune juice better than actual prunes? He drinks great from a straw cup, so that's not a problem. I'll have to see tomorrow if I can find suppositories. How long would you let this go on for? He's so obviously miserable.

Chris went to NYC with his Dad and brother for the car show. I got both kids in bed no problems. Bed seems much harder to do when he's home. I hate that I feel that way, but it's the truth. I also wonder if I just feel added pressure to "get it done" b/c he seems to wait up for me, even on rough nights. A lot of the time I wish he would just go up to bed.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Busy day here, but we got a lot done, and had a good day as a family. And we finished Tenley's bookshelf/ toy shelf! I've been wanting one since before she was born, and couldn't find one we liked, so we decided to build one. I found plans about 2 months ago, and it took this long for us to get our acts together and actually complete it. I love it! I'll have to take pictures once it's together and in her room.

Speaking of her room and sleeping. We tried all out co-sleeping again last night. Every so often I try again to see if it's gotten easier. It hasn't  I love having her in the bassinet beside us, but once she actually comes into bed, I sleep horrifically. At 5am I had to put her back in her own bassinet because I don't think I had actually fallen into a deep sleep all night and I was so tired I was dizzy  I want it to work for us... it sucks.

What did you guys do when baby started rolling during the night? T rolls over now as soon as she starts waking up, so I'll put her into her crib for the first part of the night (then she comes into the room with us after her first real wakeup), and often I'll go in when she fusses, and I'll find her facedown pushed up against the edge of the crib and angry because she's stuck... I've also had to wake her up a few times because I go in and she's asleep like that, face smooshed into the mattress and side of the crib- and I'm not comfortable with her sleeping like that. But it's not like I can make her not roll! She does it in the bassinet too, but not as much because by then she's in a deeper sleep.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Chris went to NYC with his Dad and brother for the car show. I got both kids in bed no problems. Bed seems much harder to do when he's home. I hate that I feel that way, but it's the truth. I also wonder if I just feel added pressure to "get it done" b/c he seems to wait up for me, even on rough nights. A lot of the time I wish he would just go up to bed.


I found that too for nap times. At night- T sleeps alone better than she sleeps in the bed with us. During the day for naps, she -cannot- sleep for longer than 20 minute or so stretches unless I'm in the bed with her. So I do. It's a welcome trade off. But when DH is home, I feel guilty about 'sleeping the day away', even though I usually only sleep for about 30 minutes, and so I try to put her to sleep and then come back out and do productive things. It always backfires, and she wakes up, angry, and then won't get back to sleep. Then not only do I not get anything done, but we have a super cranky baby. When DH isn't home, I'm better able to meet her needs because I don't feel like he's 'watching' me.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: I love co-sleeping - until they are mobile! LOL - Norah rolls all over now, there is a bed rail on my side of the bed, she will go all the way up against it, but it's mesh, (she butts up perpendicular to it) so I am not really concerned there. I am sure one day she will fall of the bed, it's inevitable. But it won't be long and she will be getting down off the bed by herself, Gabe was able to before he was one (and he didn't walk until just after his first b-day).

I understand the presence of another person putting more pressure - can you talk to him about it, and see what he thinks? You need rest, that is a must have, no matter how or when you get it. Norah is very touchy - she NEEDS to touch someone in order to fall asleep. once she is, I can get up, usually, but often will have to go back when she rolls around and realizes no one is there (in her sleep even she is very mobile!). It's why she sleeps so well worn. Gabe always slept better and deeper in his own space.

MW: hooray for baby snuggles - love cuddle bugs!

Carrie - hope the mom up your street becomes a good IRL friend!

I am sleepy  I really think Norah must be going through a growth spurt, she eats so much at night. at least it is only a phase!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I don't think I'd let it go on too long. I don't know what I'd do, though. I don't know what's out there to treat baby constipation.

I always put my babies to sleep on their tummies so I didn't worry about them rolling over like that. Actually, I had the opposite problem with Dylan. He would roll onto his back and startle himself awake. I wanted him to stay on his tummie.









I've been thinking a little more about behavior and medication or modification. While I do agree that everything should be done to help a child that is having trouble if that child asks for the help for himself, I'm not fully comfortable with the idea of medication and/or behavior modification if the child is feeling bad because of how others are reacting to or treating him. Especially if you think the child may need meds to help control behavior, then you should be extra sensitive about how you react to that behavior. It's unfair to get angry at someone for something they can't control. That would be the same as not liking or being angry at a child for being a girl instead of a boy or having blue instead of brown eyes. If a child is being ostracized by the family or feeling bad about himself because of how other family members are reacting to or treating him, I think those family members need to take a long hard look at how they are behaving toward that child rather than continuing to label the child as the problem by applying behavior modification techniques and/or putting the child on medication. So, I think that unless my child comes to me and says something like, "I'm having trouble doing X and need help figuring out how to do it differently," I would not be comfortable with behavior modification or medication.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I obviously am dealing with far younger children at this point - but would you wait until a child could say all that before you'd step in and help? Now, I do wait until hubby asks for help before I step in and offer ways of doing things differently (like wrt discipline, or getting baby to sleep) - I just don't know that a 2-3 year old can verbalize that need very well - it may just come out as frustration, or acting out, etc. I see no problem with offering tools to help deal with what I am sure must be overwhelming emotions, etc.

Medication is a whole different story, that would be my very last, last resort. I might try diet, and we do, to an extent. We noticed red food dye has a negative impact on behaviour, so we reduce or eliminate it.

As far as anger at something for things they can't control . . . littles have little or no impulse control - does that mean I don't get upset when he pushes Norah? or runs her over? or punches and kicks me? (all things that do happen, thankfully rarely) Of course I get upset. even angry when this is repeated. I don't just shrug and say, well he can't help it because he has poor impulse control. I try to help him identify what he's feeling and find other outlets for those emotions. Wouldn't that be considered behavior modification? (again, thinking out loud, so to speak - or type)

Carrie, if poor Finn is that miserable, might try a suppository. IDK, can you do enemas on babies? I'd be reluctant, but it's a more natual, if more icky alternative.

Norah wakes up more on her belly, she does best on her side, but with her rolling, it's hard to keep her in any position for long!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think the more you're saying, Alysia, the more I disagree.







I'm not about forcing a child to fit a mold, but I do think there are social standards that we need to shape them to understand. If they don't want to comply as they get older, thats different, but they need to be educated and shown what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. Of course, this will vary. Some standards are set by the family, some by society. Its important to have a connection with family, and with your community. If you let your child do as they please, and not reign in behavior that is offensive or dangerous, you risk them being ostracized, and you yourself being ostracized, and not accepted into the community.

Your restaurant example is a good one. I really try not to take the kids places where kids aren't usually welcome. We like Red Robin b/c if Nora climbs under the table or wants to walk around, no big deal. They're used to it. Not so much at TGIFridays or Ruby Tuesday where it is mostly adults. In that kind of situation, yes, you choose an environment that suits your needs. Everyone is more comfortable, and everyone is accepted.

I think what you're saying though about Kellen is slightly different. He just has a hyper personality. It isn't as tho he is trying to be offensive (like ... idk...screaming obscenities, spitting on people, or something) but Sean is unhappy with his exuberant and highly active personality. No, I don't think that should be stifled with behavior therapy or medication. Maybe, Sean needs to learn how to adapt to Kellen's boundless energy, and harness his energy for good, instead of trying to tame him and "mold" him into someone he isn't.

But in that respect, Kellen still needs to learn that what Daddy says goes (of course, this is just my opinion!! Take it for what it's worth!)) and to listen and to behave. I value that. I do think it's important to let kids be kids, and get excited and be a spaz -- but bedtime is bedtime. Come here now means come here now. Stop means stop.

I hope I'm not coming across preachy or judgemental. I just see a huge difference in letting a child be a child and explore and jump around and learn that way, vs not listening to mom or dad, and disrespecting the needs of other kids, other parents, other people.

But its different if a child has autism, or any kind of disability that puts him at a disadvantage. That's when we as adults need to really be flexible and not hold them to the same standards as other highly functioning children...

Ugh. So much more to say but duty calls. I'll pick this back up in a bit when I have time!

ps - I helped Finn poo this morning. Whew, it was a doozie and painful for him. I had to hold him in a squat -- it was a very rock hard, non passable poo. W/o help I don't think it would have come out. But I think he's able to go on his own now, so we'll see. Thanks for the tips!!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm not talking about social standards and normal rebellion or uncooperativeness or whatever it is. I'm talking about a family dynamic that's a major problem. I would think that no one would consider behavior modification or meds unless there was a major problem. And, by behavior modification, again, I'm not talking about normal interactions that help show a child polite or expected ways to behave in certain situations. Behavior modification is a specific technique, usually based on some kind of reward/punishment system, used to change specific behaviors just like training a dog using treats and chain collar yanks. If that's not what you mean, please explain more clearly.

http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/Behavior-modification.html

In almost all situations where behavior modification is applied to children (and maybe even in most clinical settings) it's because the adults want to control the child. My 2yo throws a fit when I tell him to stop playing and come eat so every time he does that I'm going to put him in time out for 2 minutes. Every time he comes to eat nicely (the way I like) and eats all of his lunch, I'll give him a cookie. That's about controlling the child rather than taking care of the child's needs. Maybe the child isn't hungry, in which case forcing or coercing him to eat would not be a good thing. Maybe the child isn't finished with his important work of playing. I know I would be furious if my husband took away my knitting and told me to either go sit at the table to eat or sit in the corner for 42 minutes. You'd be believe I'd be having a fit.







Honestly, the more I talk about behavior modification, the more I think it is probably never appropriate.

I don't think you are being preachy but I do think we agree more than we disagree. Although, I do disagree with the idea that what Dad says goes no matter what. I think it really depends. If Dad says that everyone has to go to bed at 9 pm because he needs to go to bed then to get enough sleep before getting up the next morning but no one else is tired/sleepy, that's not fair. It's perfectly reasonable for Dad to ask everyone to be quiet or go in a different room if he's trying to sleep in the bedroom but it's not reasonable to insist that everyone turn off all the lights, get in bed and sit in the dark and be quiet because he's sleepy. There are many nights that I try to go to sleep early because everyone else is going to sleep but I just can't fall asleep. It feels horrible for me to force myself to stay in bed with my eyes shut willing myself to sleep not to mention that it's useless. I get up and do something else until I feel sleepy. It's no different for kids. If I wait until Kellen is ready to go to sleep, there aren't any problems. He says he's tired, climbs in bed, lays down and falls asleep even if the rest of us are still up talking and watching TV or whatever.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Behavior modification is a specific technique, usually based on some kind of reward/punishment system, used to change specific behaviors just like training a dog using treats and chain collar yanks. If that's not what you mean, please explain more clearly.


Well, like...using time-out, or time-in, or even a reward chart? I do those. So I guess I do use behavior modification. One of the things on our reward chart is Keep Hands to Ourself, that's probably the one behavior on there that I really try to focus on. If she gets all her stickers on any given day, she gets a reward. At the end of the week, she gets a prize. Punishment tho...hmm. I mean, in the moment, I do punish/discipline. Ir at least, why we keep our hands to ourselves, what we can do with our hands rather than hit.

I like your analogy with the knitting. I see what you are saying. I agree with that and that's why I would never suddenly tell my child ok we are done with this lets go. I give a warning (ok 5 min then we are leaving, ok 2 min warning, etc).

I feel a little differently about bedtime than you. I do feel like when the parents want the kids at least to lay in bed, the child should try. If they really aren't sleepy, try singing to themselves, or as the parent, try singing or reading or just sitting in the room with them. I think more so what I mean with what Dad says goes (or what Mom says, either way) is if the behavior of the child is bothering someone (the parent, or anyone) and the parent says, "Please stop/Please use inside voice/Please get down off the couch, etc" the child needs to listen. If they have a good reason, and they are old enough to voice that reason (No, I'm just trying to reach something) and the parent can decide if the reason makes enough sense to allow the action to continue. But if the kid is just climbing around being a nut and can possibly get hurt, Mom or Dad has every right to say, 'Down, NOW!" and the kid really ought to listen. It's about respecting your parents. Not simply obeying or having your child be easily controlled, but respect.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I guess what I am wanting DH to do is behaviour modification. Gabe gets pokey, and DH just says stop, stop, STOP, without any consequence. Gabe has no reason to stop, other than he's getting on DH's nerves and provoking a reaction (which he wants to do). I think if he had a reason to stop (stop trying to pick my nose, it's gross. IF you continue, either I will get up, or you will have to get off the couch) - may seem punitive, and you are trying to modify the behavior. But I don't see anything wrong with modifying unacceptable behavior. (and it's unacceptable for a good reason).

Carrie, how old was Nora when you started the sticker chart? I don't think Gabe has enough sense of time for something like that to work yet. But I like the idea.

Respect goes both ways, to a point. I want our kids to respect us, and listen to what we have to say - not just because we are bigger and mean, but because we are right  I want them to trust our directions. I also try to show I respect them, too, by listening to them and taking their feelings and needs into consideration - but sometimes I just can't let that rule us. Gabe sometimes would stay somewhere and play for hours, but we can't stay all day, there are other things to do. Sometimes he wants to go and we just can't, for whatever reason. (I say these as examples) I also try to do warnings, but I also know that there will be times he will be upset no matter how many warnings I give or how prepared he should be for the next step.

I am not enjoying this bout of cold weather!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I guess what I am wanting DH to do is behaviour modification. Gabe gets pokey, and DH just says stop, stop, STOP, without any consequence. Gabe has no reason to stop, other than he's getting on DH's nerves and provoking a reaction (which he wants to do). I think if he had a reason to stop (stop trying to pick my nose, it's gross. IF you continue, either I will get up, or you will have to get off the couch) - may seem punitive, and you are trying to modify the behavior. But I don't see anything wrong with modifying unacceptable behavior. (and it's unacceptable for a good reason).
> 
> ...


Yes! I agree. Not b/c I Say So but b/c I'm wiser (for real) and setting an example. It's not bullying. It's parenting!

I only started the reward chart about a month ago, but I think we could have started earlier. But yeah, still over 3. I think he might need to be a little older. That said, we did potty learning with rewards and she was just shy of 2. It worked! You could always try with simple things and see if it works.

It's chilly and rainy today too, but I really want subway. Going to go for a walk in the drizzle and get it anyway!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, Carrie, that's behavior modification. I don't like it because I don't think it really teaches a child any intrinsic reasons for doing things. It teaches the child that it's only worth doing something "good" if she gets something for it. It can also result in a child becoming secretive for fear of being punished. It's about pleasing someone else, the parent, rather than doing something because it's the kind or helpful or cooperative thing. These are very subtle differences and I may not be the best to try to explain them. I suggest reading, _Punished by Rewards_ by Alfie Kohn.

Sometimes there are have-tos that will upset a child. That's unavoidable. Again, I am not saying that we should all let children do everything they want no matter how it affects others. I'm saying that as the big people with all the power it's important to really think about whether or not what we are asking or demanding is really necessary or if there's another way that won't result in the child getting so upset.

That leads into the what Dad or Mom says goes idea. That's not exactly what you described in those examples, Carrie. When someone says that what I say goes they imply that there is no room for consideration of another viewpoint or idea.

Kat ~ I wouldn't say that what you described is behavior modification. I would consider those natural consequences. If you do something that bothers someone, like poking them, they will not hold you. That's a good lesson for a child to learn. It's not punishment to put the child down and say, "You can't sit on my lap if you are going to do that," unless it's done in anger. Again, subtle differences. I would absolutely put my child down if he were hurting me. I've been doing this with Dylan, sort of. He won't sit still in my lap or on the couch. He wants to squirm and crawl and it's not safe. So, I put him down on the floor while saying that, if he wants to crawl (or whatever), he can do that on the floor because it's not safe on the couch. I don't put him down and angrily say, "You can't be up here if you don't behave!" One is about safety. The other is about control.

Carrie ~ I keep forgetting that I was going to say that I really like that stuff you post on FB generates interesting discussion but then it seems that maybe I tend to start arguments. Sorry.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: I think rewards can work for potty - for Gabe the idea of a reward chart is kind of delayed gratification, and he totally doesn't get that. I do really like natural consequences. They are so logical!

MW: subtle differences - I think "you can't be up here if you won't behave" all the time! because it's so ingrained in my head. But I don't say it. How is Gabe supposed to know or understand what "behave" means? I would say "you can't sit on my lap if you can't be gentle" - it's a lot more specific, and I think is a reasonable expectation. the hard part is saying and acting on those things before it gets so out of hand you react out of anger. (because once or twice having a finger stuck in your ear might be funny. 10 times, not so much)

We are on easter candy sugar overload here. need to get it out of the house!

it's not bad in the sun, but in the shade it is chilly. Had to put the kids in long pants today!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

[quote name="akind1" url="/community/t/1349941/april-2012-rockstar-mamas-and-their-babies-better-late-than-never/60#post_16944905"the hard part is saying and acting on those things before it gets so out of hand you react out of anger. (because once or twice having a finger stuck in your ear might be funny. 10 times, not so much)[/quote]








Dylan likes to stick his finger in anyone's mouth. Sometimes it hurts if his nails are long and he scratches my gums. Ouch! The same with the pinching. Sean and I both would just have to put Dylan down sometimes because he wouldn't stop pinching.

Gentle is still a bit ambiguous, especially for a toddler, I think. I see that with the older boys, even. Ethan will do something to Kellen and Kellen cries and says it hurt and Ethan says he didn't do it that hard. So, I have to explain to Ethan that it's not about how hard he thought he did it but about how it felt to Kellen. Sean did it to Ryan when he was younger and they would wrestle. Ryan does it to Ethan and Kellen sometimes.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I've been reading along all day but unable to respond until now. After reading the examples and descriptions of behavior modification vs. natural consequences, I definitely lean more towards natural consequences. BUT, I think it is important to impart social skills to our kids. We have a big issue with that in our house mainly because at the big kids' other house, there's lots of "If people don't like how I/we behave, then they are the ones that have a problem and they don't need to be around us." An example would be the big kids' mom letting their little siblings talk and be noisy w/out removing them during a musical performance at the kids' school. Her opinion is if other people are bothered, that's their problem. But she doesn't attempt to impart to the little girls that this is a situation where it's appropriate to be quiet and listen to the performance. That it's respectful to be quiet because the performers have worked hard and the people there want to hear the music. So then the big kids get the message that when they behave in atypical social behaviors, it's not their responsibility to conform to social and societal norms, it's other people's responsibility to not be offended. I think that's wrong. And then DH and I are the ones trying to "change" them by asking them to not talk in a situation that requires a quiet atmosphere like church or a performance.

MW, your sleep example made me laugh because I did something similar last week w/DSS 17. Our house is small...7 people living in 1100 sq ft. You can hear everything. DSS 17 would stay up all night if allowed. But he's loud when he's up moving around. So I asked him to go to his bed at midnight. He didn't need to go to sleep, he could read, listen to his ipod, text on his phone, etc, but he needed to be still and quiet. I had to get some sleep. I don't think there's anything wrong with instituting a house-bedtime when people need to stop moving around.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I think a house bedtime/quiet time is fine - I think our very laid back sort of line is 10:00. sometimes it gets pushed to 11. (this is for kids) Also agree with the societal norms - as long as kids are told going into a situation what the behavior expected is (i.e. "kids, we are going to a concert. we expect you to be quiet/whisper/sit sort of still so we can enjoy the performace that the performers worked so hard on") I have always said kids will not learn how to act out in public if you never take them. I think it's very true. I hate when I hear people say they can't take their kids to X place because they can't behave. (while I am sure some of the places are not child appropriate, some could be).

As far as not offending people, that depends. It's not my problem if other people are offended by me NIP. It really doesn't affect them in the least. I have gotten dirty looks from other customers at restaurants just for HAVING a kid with me. Also, not my problem. My kid throwing food at you? or disturbing the peace? Now, that's my problem, and I try to do something about it. It's why when there is good weather, we try to eat outside at restaurants, it seems to not make the noise as bad LOL


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

There's a big difference between a 17yo and a 4yo. If I didn't have LOs in my bed, I may not actually get out of bed if I couldn't sleep. I might read a book or knit or watch TV in bed. Even Ethan can sit quietly in bed and read or play his DSi or watch TV. Kellen, not so much. There isn't much a 4yo can do quietly by himself or otherwise.

And, the examples of the music performance or being in church aren't situations where the kids can't control their behavior. Those are situations where the kids haven't been expected to behave appropriately in certain situations like the restaurant example I gave in the beginning. Again, not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about within the family. But, I guess if I had step-children who didn't behave the way I expected them to in public, for example, because that's not the way they were used to having to behave and it was a constant struggle, I wouldn't take them out in public. Unfortunately, I don't think you can make much difference in a situation like that if you aren't the custodial parent. Then again, maybe not taking them a few times would help them realize that they do need to behave civilly if they want to be included in the things you do. That's more of a natural consequence for older kids. Like, if my teenager wants me to take her to the mall to do some clothes shopping but she is loud and rude and obnoxious while we are there and embarrasses me, I'd probably leave without buying anything and not take her back (at least for a while). What I wouldn't do is buy her the clothes and then ground her once we got home or take away her cell phone. That doesn't make any sense.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

if everyone sits/ lays down to chill, will Kellen? IDK if its the best or most ideal thing, but we use the TV for chill time before bed, or Gabe can sit for a while quietly with the iphone. it helps us, at any rate!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Let me go back and explain the whole situation from the beginning. I was having trouble getting Dylan to fall asleep and stay asleep before Ethan and Kellen were asleep because they make noise getting ready for bed. When Sean got home we came up with the plan that Sean would get Ethan and Kellen ready for bed and get them all settled before I came up with Dylan. Then we could all lay down with the lights out and go to sleep. There isn't really any problem with that. For the most part, once we are all in bed he'll settle and go to sleep. He doesn't fight to go to bed and he doesn't try to get up after we've all laid down. Sometimes he's very squirmy, which can bother everyone, but that's not something he's doing to defy us or anything like that. He's just trying to get comfortable or restless or whatever. If Kellen wasn't able to settle at that time, he could go in the other room with Sean to sleep, which he chose to do most nights. Once they were in bed Kellen would quickly settle and fall asleep. Having someone to cuddle him helps a lot, which I can't do if I'm trying to get Dylan to sleep. If he's tired enough, he will also settle and fall asleep while the rest of us are still up with the lights and the TV on. It's those times when he feels like he just can't settle that I got the homeopathic tablets for. It was supposed to be up to him if he needed them or not.

The problems started because Sean doesn't know how to corral Kellen and keep him focused on getting something done. Kellen needs more direct attention and hands on guidance. Sean sits down in the room with ESPN on and tells Kellen over and over to stop and go brush his teeth, for example, while Kellen continues to play and Sean gets more and more agitated. It's the same thing as your DH telling Gabe to stop trying to pick his nose over and over but not actually doing anything about it. Rather than actually paying attention to Kellen and helping him get his teeth brushed and get into bed, he wants to just feed him the Hyland's tablets.

As soon as I go upstairs and tell Kellen to brush his teeth, go to the bathroom and get into the bed, he pretty much does. He may bounce off the walls as he's doing it but he gets it done. Last night Kellen was sitting on the bed being very calm and quiet. I asked him if he'd had any of his "medicine" and he said no. Sean started to get him some but I said he obviously didn't need it. He was fine.

That's why I'm uncomfortable with Sean just wanting to dose Kellen and the message it's sending Kellen.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Let me go back and explain the whole situation from the beginning. I was having trouble getting Dylan to fall asleep and stay asleep before Ethan and Kellen were asleep because they make noise getting ready for bed. When Sean got home we came up with the plan that Sean would get Ethan and Kellen ready for bed and get them all settled before I came up with Dylan. Then we could all lay down with the lights out and go to sleep. There isn't really any problem with that. For the most part, once we are all in bed he'll settle and go to sleep. He doesn't fight to go to bed and he doesn't try to get up after we've all laid down. Sometimes he's very squirmy, which can bother everyone, but that's not something he's doing to defy us or anything like that. He's just trying to get comfortable or restless or whatever. If Kellen wasn't able to settle at that time, he could go in the other room with Sean to sleep, which he chose to do most nights. Once they were in bed Kellen would quickly settle and fall asleep. Having someone to cuddle him helps a lot, which I can't do if I'm trying to get Dylan to sleep. If he's tired enough, he will also settle and fall asleep while the rest of us are still up with the lights and the TV on. It's those times when he feels like he just can't settle that I got the homeopathic tablets for. It was supposed to be up to him if he needed them or not.
> The problems started because Sean doesn't know how to corral Kellen and keep him focused on getting something done. Kellen needs more direct attention and hands on guidance. Sean sits down in the room with ESPN on and tells Kellen over and over to stop and go brush his teeth, for example, while Kellen continues to play and Sean gets more and more agitated. It's the same thing as your DH telling Gabe to stop trying to pick his nose over and over but not actually doing anything about it. Rather than actually paying attention to Kellen and helping him get his teeth brushed and get into bed, he wants to just feed him the Hyland's tablets.
> ...


MW, yeah that would make me frustrated too. MY DH also doesn't seem to understand that the kids "flip out" for lack of a better word when his attention is drawn to his phone or TV. He needs to engage if he wants them to do the things he's asked them to do. Otherwise they just ignore him and continue what they were doing or worse, start picking fights with each other to get him to engage by fussing at them. He thinks they should be able to go off and do what they were asked to do. I wish that they were but the fact is either because of biological reasons or environmental reasons, they can't. Even though they are older. They need an engaged grownup following them around gently reminding them to stay on task. I don't think that warrants medicine either.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, and a lot of times that behavior is just normal kid behavior, at least for the younger ones. Ethan is sometimes distractable, too. Although, most of the time if I think he's not listening, he'll say he's just waiting until he's finished with whatever he's doing, like waiting for a commercial break or for a spot where he can pause his video game just like I wouldn't just drop my knitting. I'd have to get to a spot where I could stop without the thing unraveling or me forgetting where I was.

The stuff I got is homeopathic so I don't have to worry about an overdose or side effects but still. I don't like giving the kids the message that it's ok to take a pill for normal, every day stuff. KWIM?


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: that makes a lot of sense. I wonder, if the TV were off, would Sean engage better to help K get ready for bed? Don't know if that would be of any help - like have a TV off at 9 or 9:30 rule so everyone can focus on getting ready for bed?

I have slept in my clothes the last couple nights. I just didn't feel like getting out of bed once I got Norah to sleep to take them off and change, LOL she takes forever to get to sleep. Nurses on and off, is so restless until she settles. The only thing that gets her out fast is wearing her, and she doesn't always stay asleep once I get her down. hopefuly it's a phase. I know she's going through some developmental milestones right now (this 6-8 month patch is full of them it seems) and that may be part of it.

I hope I am not taking BLW too far . . . last night she gummed a quesadilla and a strawberry. Enjoyed both tremendously, though I am doubtful much of either made it through. She was also super excited about Gabe's lucky charms, but she has no pincer grasp yet, and no way to chomp those things.

Hope everyone has a fun weekend!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh, Alysia, now I see what you're talking about. No I don't think that's cool either. DH is guilty of doing that same thing -- go brush teeth, go get jammies -- while staring at the phone. DD doesn't listen she just keeps bouncing around. She still needs an escort, lol, but half the time he thinks she should be doing that stuff alone. No way, dude!

Kat - probably a phase. She's more alert and restless and engaged in her exciting surroundings!! LOL!

LOL about the quesadilla! Idk, is dairy cheese ok so early?







I love BLW. You can't really make a mistake, b/c if they can't handle the food, they let you know. I mean, there are so few "rules" that it just makes eating solids fun instead of work -- except for maybe the clean up part at the end. Ha!

JJ - how is sleep going? When DD started rolling and crawling around, I just stacked pillows around the edge of the bed. Since she's rolling back and forth, I wouldn't worry too much.

Sucks you can't sleep with Tenley in the bed though. Hmm..

We only bedshared with Nora, so once she got to be a little over a year, maybe a year and a half, we put a futon mattress on her floor and she would start the night out there. Usually one of us would go to her when she cried for us, and spend the night in there with her. Not so comfy, but at least she couldn't get hurt. (But she could come running to us if she needed to). And we all got sleep.

I still think Finn is going to be in bed with me for a lonnnnngggg time. There's no where else to put him. And I love seeing him in the morning.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - I *think* so, as long as there aren't any known allergies (same with strawberries - they are usually a wait food, because a lot of people are allergic - but we have no known food allergies in either family) - and I doubt she actually got much - she sucked on it like a lollipop - will keep an eye on her poop though! just starting solids poop is so weird. LOL

We have a futon mattress, I am thinking about that.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think it might help if Sean turned off the TV but he's the one who turns it on to his shows. He's the one not paying attention. If people are up and doing things, it's still playtime to Kellen. That's the problem. Sean expects Kellen to stop playing just because he says so. Sean's getting better about that. During the day, he has started to stop, go over to where the boys are, touch them and get down to their level if they aren't listening when he talks to them from across the room. I think he saw the Calms Forte as an easy way out. He could give Kellen those pills and then he wouldn't have to pay attention so much. I don't think he did that consciously but that's what was happening and it really bothered me.

I haven't given Dylan any dairy or strawberries yet but I did give him some scrambled egg and some kiwi. Kiwi is related to strawberries so I was a little concerned about a reaction but we don't have any known allergies to those in our family and I've been giving him egg yolks for a while. Sometimes I'm at a loss as to what to feed him and he'll go all day with only nursing until dinnertime. I gave him some polenta yesterday since that's what we had for breakfast even though I said I wanted to avoid grains. He didn't like it, anyway, so it was no biggie. He also doesn't seem to like hamburger, which we had for dinner last night, but does like green beans. Go figure!

I've been telling Sean for about a week that we need to put our bed on the floor instead of on the frame because Dylan has crawled out of it a few times. I think I'm going to have to just tell Sean to go and do it.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My life officially sucks.









Sean is getting orders to go to Quantico for 2 months. I think he leaves next week. I guess that makes all this effort to reintegrate him back into the family useless. I've been thinking. Maybe part of the reason having him home is so hard for me is because I know I can't count on him staying. Since he could (and most likely will) leave again at any time, there's no point in me getting attached to him anymore.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ugh, I don't understand! I thought he was home for awhile! I didn't realize they could do that. Boo. I'm sorry, Alysia.









At a loss on what to give Dylan. Hmm. Off the top of my head, thinking grain-free and whole foods -- black beans, bananas, peaches, avocado, baked apples, hummus, sweet potato, grapes cut up, broccoli florets steamed...

I almost made it all day yesterday with only nursing. I gave in last night right before bedtime. I feel like milk just isn't enough -- and I don't like feeling like that. B/c I know at this young age, it totally is enough. FWIW, tho, no hard boobies yesterday or excessive leaking. So, maybe it's just that I need to offer more milk to make sure he's still nursing enough.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My default food was bananas (even though he didn't like them







). I realized Sean hasn't bought any the last few times he went to the store. I guess I need to write them of the list every time. Oh, no I don't because he won't be here to shop after this weekend.

Yeah, if he were going to stay in his original job, he would have been here. But he got picked to go to Quantico to be on a promotion selection board. His superiors tried to get him out of it but they can't, so off he goes. On the upside, he says he'll make a lot of extra money off it because he'll get a per diem that is way more than he spends. The downside of that is that it will be the same as his trip to CA. We have to pay/charge everything up front and wait to get reimbursed after he's done.

I keep forgetting to tell you all that I had a huge gob of ewcf a while ago. I marked it on the calendar and marked 13 days later as the earliest I would expect AF. That was the 10th and no AF so I guess it wasn't actually O. 8 months and counting. I hope I can go at least a year. Still kind of hoping I'll go straight into menopause but I'm probably too young for that.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: you never know! Norah is younger than your boys (yours and Carrie's) but she really only gets solids at dinner, because that's the only time we all sit down to eat. (sad, I know). she gets a bit of whatever we have.

Bummed that Sean is leaving so soon  after this training, will he be home for a while?

I am too tired to think. BBL!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: you never know! Norah is younger than your boys (yours and Carrie's) but she really only gets solids at dinner, because that's the only time we all sit down to eat. (sad, I know). she gets a bit of whatever we have.


We all sit down for breakfast and lunch, too, and I feel bad that I don't have anything to offer Dylan half the time. He wants something to eat, or at least play with. I have to plan better because I don't usually cook those meals. I tried getting sweet potatoes to keep on hand but they just rotted. Apples were good except that most of them were getting wasted after the tiny bit he'd eat.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Bummed that Sean is leaving so soon  after this training, will he be home for a while?


I have no idea because he was supposed to stay home now.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW that stinks about your DH getting transferred. If you guys come up to visit him, let me know. If I'm free, we'll pop up to see you guys. Here's a list of what Ava eats if you want some ideas: cinnamon toasr, scrambled egg yolk, toast, cheerios, banana, apple, peas, green beans, meatballs, spaghetti w/olive oil, black beans and rice, pizza crust, guacamole, chicken noodle soup, cheese sandwich, mum-mums, pancakes, waffles, broccoli, corn, lima beans. I think that's everything she's had and liked so far. I just got some Dr. Praeger's spinach bites today that I'm going to try with her. I tried ricecake but she wasn't thrilled.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ya know what I just realized. This may affect our Williamsburg trip. I planned based on the fact that Sean would be the OIC and be able to take off whenever. Since he'll have to take a different position when he comes back from Quantico, he may not be able to get the time off. I guess since it's over a weekend, he'll at least be able to come up for that (unless he has to go out on maneuvers). He also may not be able to go to Asheville like we had planned.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am assuming he is a career Marine; how much longer does he have until that goal? There has to be light at the end of the tunnel somewhere! We are so forturnate that my dad chose an MOS that required no deployment. The worst was when we lived in Okinawa, because they use that as a way station to send troops elsewhere - he spent a bunch of time in Thailand and Australia. And all that time away did seriously damage my parents' marriage, but they were able to get back on track. (but we were older and they could take time away to be by themselves to focus on that a whole lot easier)

If we are sitting down to eat, Norah has to join in. she is mad otherwise. What do ya'lll eat for breakfast and lunch?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, he wants to be in until retirement. That's another 10 years. Ethan will be 18 then. We've talked a little about him getting out and getting another job but he's not really interested. Ethan tells him all the time to just get a different job. I know he would if I insisted but I'm not going to do that. No point in both of us being miserable.

I don't usually eat breakfast, but if I do, it's almost always a bagel with cream cheese. The boys usually have cereal or toast or frozen waffles. Sometimes I make scrambled eggs and bacon or polenta or pancakes. For lunch, it's usually sandwiches or canned soup or mac & cheese. I need to just make sure that I always have quick and easy fruits on hand for D.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Moved to Parenting by request of MarineWife

Please contact me, TiredX2, with any concerns (via PM).


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Finn eats cereal or frozen waffles!! There's a brand of organic vegan ones I sometimes buy got quick breakfasts.

Lunch... Yesterday I quickly cooked a can of black beans with onion powder, garlic salt, a touch of cayenne, and a tiny bit of vegetable oil. Simmer on medium with just a little water, delicious. Finn loves it.
He also likes chunks from vegetable soup.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I hope you all don't mind that I asked this thread to be move to Parenting. It seemed we talked about a lot more than just babies, maybe even more about other stuff than babies, so it would be more appropriate in Parenting.

I know I can give Dylan those things but I don't really want to. I'm trying to stick with whole, unprocessed foods, foods with lots of ingredients and no grains or legumes. It's hard! I don't do it all the time. I did give him pancakes once and sometimes give him bread to keep him busy when we go out to eat. This morning I cut up a bunch of fruit; pears, kiwi and oranges, for everyone so I gave him some pears and kiwi. Sean started to give him some orange and I told him not to. Then he got mad at me for giving him kiwi because that's citrus, too. IDK, maybe I'm being too cautious?







I need to look up the citrus guidelines again. Sean did give him some mandarin oranges last night when we were at Golden Corral. Sean commented on how much Dylan liked them. I was like, "Yeah, probably because they are in syrup."









I was just thinking this morning that I need to figure out how to cook canned beans quickly without a recipe since Sean is leaving again. I can't dig up recipes for every time we eat. I need some quick and easy meals I can just make on my own.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I was just thinking this morning that I need to figure out how to cook canned beans quickly without a recipe since Sean is leaving again. I can't dig up recipes for every time we eat. I need some quick and easy meals I can just make on my own.


I have a very easy bean recipe if you want it. I have it memorized but here it is. For our family of 4 now we triple it, so do the math to figure out how much you would need to do.

http://recipes.suleski.us/creole-red-beans

Parenting forum is fine with me! Makes more sense since our kiddos are all ages and developmental stages.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I am totally not cautious when it comes to introducing foods. I start giving yogurt at 6 months. Cheese at 6 months (I read something about cheese not really even counting as dairy since it is so processed). I think I give eggs around 9 months. Citrus I don't really pay attention, but oranges are hard to give to the littles because the white stuff seems to hard to chew. I remember Lina would eventually just spit out all the crap she couldn't get through into my hand......gross.

Peanut butter I wait until a year, but that is about it.

Then on the other hand I don't really give my kids cow milk at all.......I am a weirdo









Does anyone know how to soak beans? I want to start eating more beans, but I don't really want to do the canned beans unless I have too. I am sure I can look it up online too.......maybe youtube!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Soaking beans is easy. Just put them in a bowl or large pot, cover with water a little above the beans and let sit over night. That's it. They'll be ready to cook the next morning. I like to do that, too, when I remember but I keep cans on hand when I need something quick.

I don't give babies cow milk, either. I don't think that's weird but I guess it's weird in the mainstream. My older kids have milk but only for cereal or if they want chocolate milk. I don't make them drink a cup at every meal like is recommended and like my dad made me do. And, to be even more weird, I get whole milk for my older kids rather than reduced fat. I've been trying to switch them to coconut milk. It seems to ebb and flow. One day they'll proclaim that they really like vanilla coconut milk and the next they only want cow milk.

I don't plan to give Dylan yogurt or cheese, either. I'm trying to move away from all dairy as much as possible but it's really hard. The only way to do it is to eat only whole foods and make everything from scratch. I am just not going to do that. Any of you who do or have tried that, do you notice that you are hungry all the time? When I try to stick to snacking only on fruit and veggies, no grains, no dairy, I find that I am never satisfied, always hungry. If I eat a piece of cheese, I'm good.









Here's part of my issue about being so cautious about introducing solids to Dylan. Last night he tossed and turned and squirmed and kicked all night. I don't think I slept a wink. I don't know how he slept at all. He wasn't fussy just restless. The only thing I can think of that would cause that is gas from food because every so often he will fart and then settle for a little longer. He was very fussy like that as a newborn and I'm pretty sure that was from gas. If I want to try to figure out which foods cause that, I need to introduce them slowly and one at a time. Sean just gives him whatever all willy nilly so that I don't even know what he may have had.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

The only things I haven't given DD yet are peanut butter, citrus, berries and tomatoes. No real reason on the berries other than we haven't had any and her skin is really sensitive so I'm going to hold off a bit longer on the citrus and tomatoes. My 18 month old niece just tested positive for peanut allergy. Ugh. So I guess I need to be cautious with that.

Sleep...ugh, you guys, I'm having a really tough time with this right now. I thought I had solved DD's sleep issues by giving her a warmer blanket. But the last couple of nights, we're back to hourly wake-ups. I know intellectually that if she's waking to eat, she must need it but man, it's tough, especially when all the other babies around me IRL seem to be able to just magically go to sleep at night and not need their mom every 30-60 mins throughout the night! And I know that it's not an apples to apples comparison because the other babies were either a)sleep-trained or b) formula-fed or c)both but geez, I'm getting burned out! Last night, DD went to sleep at 7:30 PM. She was calling out at 8:10 PM to eat again. So I fed her. That held her until I went to bed at 10:30 PM which woke her up and I fed her again. Then she ate on and off until the bottle ran out around midnight. I went out and got a new bottle and she ate that on and off until I got up at 3 AM to pump. Came back to bed around 3:30 AM and she ate that bottle on and off until she really woke around 5 AM. Had to change her diaper and walk around with her until 5:30 AM before she went back to sleep. She wasn't ready to be awake for the day otherwise I would have just taken her out to play. She was still wanting to sleep but every time I laid her down, she would cry and she didn't want me just sitting and holding her and she didn't want to eat. Then she woke for the day at 7:30 AM. I feel like I haven't slept!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

It can be gas or indigestion, but remember it can also be developmental, or just his personality. I wouldn't go too nuts over every bit of food he gets, b/c eventually it's going to get away from you. Eventually he'll sleep better regardless of what he eats.

He could also be hungry? Idk. I find Finn sleeps better, and sounder, when he has solid dinner before nursing to sleep.

Can babies have mayo? I use soy based mayo. But I make my own "tuna" by mashing chickpeas (canned or soaked/cooked) mix with mayo, salt/pepper/paprika. I put pickles in b/c I like it. I suppose it's like hummus, but there is no tahini in it, so it is good alone or on pita. Well, anyway, Finn LOVES it. I put it on a fork and he brings it to his mouth. He is finally starting to get past sweet/fruit preferences, and is getting into savory food.

No cows milk here, annie! Not that weird to me!

Finn cut his first tooth! At one day shy of 8 months!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan woke up around 7 am this morning, too. Luckily, Sean was here so he took Dylan and I was, amazingly, able to sleep for a couple of hours. Sean said Dylan fell back to sleep at around 7:30 for another half hour or so. He's been doing the constant restlessness thing all night for 3 nights now. One night I was able to get him back to sleep without nursing. I just patted his back and he fell asleep. I was shocked. That didn't work last night, though.

Yeah, you really can't compare an exclusively breast milk fed, co-sleeping baby with babies who were sleep trained and/or formula fed. Especially with sleep-trained babies, there's no way to know that they are actually sleeping through the night vs. their parents just not responding to their wakings.

I'm pretty sure from Dylan's behavior today that the solids are at least partly to blame. I've seen him a few times working at getting some gas or poop out. That's seemed to never be easy for him. Maybe I shouldn't give him solids in the evenings?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Re: dairy free. I don't find that I need to cook everything from scratch. Tho, I do use processed food, like daiya, tofutti, etc. if you want to avoid things like that, you really can. Dh doesn't eat half the shit I eat. Rarely anything processed. I just don't ready see what is so hard about it, besides wanting it or craving it.
Im hungry when I dint get enough protein. Im really trying to get in excess of 75 g a day, which is an effort for me. I joke that im a carb-atarian.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, as I've said before, I don't want to sub soy for dairy, especially for my boys and for a baby. I don't mean that it's hard to go without dairy. I don't really crave anything anymore, even cheese that I used to love. I meant, like you alluded to, that it's hard to find ready made dairy free and soy free foods and I am not one to spend much, if any time, cooking. I really dislike cooking. I find it boring. I've tried periodically to make a commitment to cook more but I don't stick with it. That's just how I am. I'm not going to fight it anymore or feel bad about it.

Protein and carbs don't satisfy me regardless of the source. I'm pretty sure it's the fat that my body wants. I could eat tons of chicken or beans and still be hungry 30 minutes later. Beef usually keeps me full a little longer depending. Cheese is an easy source of fat. I think that's why cheese works for me when I just can't seem to get full. Other salty, fatty things work, too, like potato chips but I don't really like them.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

nak

what about almonds? They've got good fats in them, don't they? Plus the protein.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, what if you started adding flaxseed oil to stuff? Or flaxseed meal? Good, healthy, non-dairy fat! I'm thinking about coating DD's pasta in flaxseed oil instead of EVOO. When she gets a little bigger, I'll definitely be making her smoothies with flaxseed oil. I already give the big kids that. Also on the cooking thing, I feel you on that. I hate cooking for 1-2 people so I hardly ever cook when the big kids are gone. So what I've started doing is if I fix a meal that I know Ava likes, I try to make a little extra and freeze it in individual servings so I can just pull it out and defrost it in hot water for her. For instance, I made spaghetti and froze individual servings for her. I froze the leftover pancakes and waffles. I bought some of the adobe black bean soup that she likes from Whole Foods, made some brown rice and then made little individual servings of rice and beans for her. I did that when I made a pot of lentils too. Or if you have a grocery store near you that sells Amy's organic frozen meals, there are a number of them that are dairy and gluten free. They may still have rice in it though.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> MW, what if you started adding flaxseed oil to stuff? Or flaxseed meal? Good, healthy, non-dairy fat! I'm thinking about coating DD's pasta in flaxseed oil instead of EVOO. When she gets a little bigger, I'll definitely be making her smoothies with flaxseed oil. I already give the big kids that. Also on the cooking thing, I feel you on that. I hate cooking for 1-2 people so I hardly ever cook when the big kids are gone. So what I've started doing is if I fix a meal that I know Ava likes, I try to make a little extra and freeze it in individual servings so I can just pull it out and defrost it in hot water for her. For instance, I made spaghetti and froze individual servings for her. I froze the leftover pancakes and waffles. I bought some of the adobe black bean soup that she likes from Whole Foods, made some brown rice and then made little individual servings of rice and beans for her. I did that when I made a pot of lentils too. Or if you have a grocery store near you that sells Amy's organic frozen meals, there are a number of them that are dairy and gluten free. They may still have rice in it though.


That's such a good idea. I need to start doing that too! Most of what I cook for Finn needs to be roasted or broiled, if it's not fresh fruit or something, and I end up feeding him puffs or something while everyone else is eating. He fills up on crap and then doesn't want the main thing I spent the time cooking. Then, if I do actually remember to start it early, then he eats it all and I've nothing for the next night. I also need to just plain start cooking in larger batches b/c I forget he needs a whole serving.

I found chocolate flavor flax oil that I put in smoothies. Yum.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't plan on holding back on anything food wise with Norah, except honey, and straight cow's milk, and maybe peanut butter, until age 1. She has already had berries - strawberries, and she LOVED them. I think she might have gotten a little tomato sauce with the pizza crust she gnawed on. Now, if I noticed any signs of disturbance in the force (so to speak) I would hold off on stuff; but she's handling it really well.

Cow's milk - we don't avoid dairy. We just don't. I like it too much, and I would rather have it as it is, then alternative dairy-like product. HOWEVER, I feel no need to add it into their diet once they are weaned. Gabe is allowed milk, but it's not actively encouraged; it is soemthing available in the fridge to drink, but unless he asks for it, he doesn't get it. The boy eats some cheese though! and of course, we all have ice cream. I just don't feel milk is necessary at all. I hear from so many moms whose babies were breastfed that their LOs don't like the taste of cow milk. I tell them, then why have them drink it? they don't need it?

I love the article JJ posted on FB - it just made a lot of sense to me. (it was about "rules" for starting solids)

Hooray on Finn's first tooth!

Gabe has been so good with Norah lately. I mean, really, really, good. IDK why, but I hope it keeps up. And he loves to nurse something while I nurse her, it is too cute! I even bathed them together last night, and he liked pouring water on her (a couple times over her head, which made her sputter, but otherwise just on her hands and feet). I'm a happy mama!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I like almonds but I get nauseous if I eat too many. I get the same way from almond butter.

The Amy's dairy free has lots of soy. I've pretty much given up on being dairy and gluten free. I'm just focusing on the big things that are considered staples in the diet that maybe aren't really so good for us.

Supplementing with lots of vegetable oils/fats isn't necessarily a good thing and animal fats aren't necessarily bad. It's a balance. The SAD today has too much omega-6s vegetable fats and not enough omega-3s from animal fats . While vegetable fats do contain some omega-3s, they are not the same as in animal fat, specifically DHA. Flaxseed contains ALA but not DHA. That being said, I do usually take a flaxseed capsule a day because I get nauseous if I take fish oil. I am thinking about trying krill oil.

I've been doing better the past 2 days. I made sure Sean got more fruits from the grocery store. Dylan got some chicken soup fro dinner last night. Sean made it from scratch so there wasn't anything questionable in it, just chicken, carrots, celery, onion and some salt and pepper.

That article you posted on FB makes a good point about maybe changing your diet if it's not stuff you would feed to your baby.

Do you all try to give your babies a little protein, fat, veggies and carbs at every meal? I've been pretty much sticking to one food only because that's easiest. Like if we have eggs and bacon for breakfast, I'll give Dylan some egg yolk. I don't necessarily also offer him some fruit. I probably should, though, since that's a good time for everyone to get some fruit. Ethan and Kellen devour any fruit I put out in the mornings but then they don't eat much protein. If the boys have cereal, I don't also have a protein to give anyone.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Um. Norah gets one or two things, as did Gabe until he was one, and eating more of a meal. around age one, he was getting a yogurt (fruit and dairy) and a carb (toast w/ peanut butter - so protein too) at breakfast, squeezey fruit around lunch time with whatever we may have been eating, and whatever parts of our dinner he could eat, from miso soup, to rice, etc.

I think it's more about eating a balanced daily diet, then trying to get all that stuff in at every meal.

I get so bothered when my IRL friends complain that their kids don't eat much at meals, because the are snacking all day (on healthy things, like fruit, dried veggies, cheese, etc) - I really think it's far healthier to eat that way than big sit down meals. But it's hard to break out of the 3 meal a day mindset. I don't mind if Gabe fills up on fruit before dinner. I mean, big deal, so long as when he does get hungry later, which he will, we stick to him having healthy snacks.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

It was a good article-- Lauri gets credit though! I'm still in denial my baby is ever going to be old enough to eat solids. No no no!

And Kat, I agree. Snacking all day as long as it's healthy stuff is not a bad thing! One of the families I nannyed had a drawer the kids could reach. It was filled with healthy snacky foods- and they were allowed to grab something all day long, whenever they wanted, as long as it was from the drawer. It's not like they're filling up on cookies and fruit roll ups!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ. Like Carrie just posted on FB that Finn is now 8 months, which means only 4 months until he's a year old. Dylan has even less time. It goes by so fast!

I keep foods in child's reach for my boys to eat whenever they want. Sean gets upset if they don't eat much dinner. A lot of times Kellen will only eat some rice or pasta that Sean made as a side dish. He won't eat the meat. I don't worry about it because I know they've been eating all day. Plus, they are healthy and growing, which I think is the best measure of whether or not they are eating enough rather than measuring food.

With Dylan, I figure that, since he's getting his nutrition from breastmilk, the solids are just for fun/extras so I give him a little of whatever I have on hand. We do give him some meat and veggies at dinner and he gets fruit during the day. I think that's pretty good, huh?

I wish Sean had never gotten into this Paleo diet thing. It's really causing me to have a bunch of hang ups about food. A lot of what he explained about it makes sense to me but it's really hard for me to implement. It would be a lot easier for me to feed Dylan if I weren't concerned about grains so much. I could give him toast or cereal or pancakes. I threw it all out of my head this morning and gave him a pancake with a little bit of butter and syrup on it.







He still hardly ate any of it.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Paleo doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think alot depends on your ancestry - the Blood Type Diet book I think made a lot more sense, because I don't think it's necessary to go back thousands (if not millions) of years to figure out what we should be eating - a couple/few hundred should be plenty.

That said, I also don't believe in eating brown rice. 1) it doesn't taste good 2) traditionally, that is not how native cultures eat it. For example, the Thai feed the brown husk to the chickens they then eat for meat. And I also don't think I've ever seen Japanese people eat brown rice (as in when we lived in Japan) and they have one of the longest life spans on the planet. Granted, they also eat some really weird stuff like bittermelon (goya), which they swear by.

Now, I could, easily, swear off meat. so long as I could still eat fish.

I need to work on potty training Gabe . . .I think he's ready. I don't know if I am.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The stuff about grains wrt the Paleo diet makes sense to me. Historically, grains and tubers became a staple diet in European cultures during times of food shortage and increased population. So, while it may be possible for humans to survive on grains and tubers, it's not ideal and certainly not something that should make the largest percentage of the daily diet. Even with traditional foods that don't go back so far, there's a lot of stuff about only eating sprouted grains, which essentially means eating the green parts rather than just the seeds. Basically, the idea is that if you can't eat it raw, you probably shouldn't eat it too much, which is how all other mammals eat. I don't know about Asian cultures and tubers. I think that while they may not have historically eaten brown rice, they haven't traditionally eaten the highly processed and bleached white rice that we find in grocery stores here and I don't know how much rice they actually ate hundreds of years ago. I also think it's very possible that rice became a staple during times of food shortage.

I think as a species we rely way too much on processed grains for our carbohydrates (sugars) and don't eat enough whole, natural carbs. It really doesn't make sense to me that people are encouraged to eat more bread than fruit.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I agree with the part re:more bread than fruit. That's why I didn't understand Atkins when DH did it, he had to cut out all fruits and sweeter veggies (like peas!) and that made no sense to me - I mean, fruit and veggies are GOOD for you!.

re: rice: I really doubt they bleached it traditionally, but I am fairly certain they de-husked it (or whatever it's called). I know we only eat Jasmine and Arborio rice (because both are yummy LOL). Once in a while we will use a rice-a-roni side dish, but we have gotten much better about using less packaged side dishes.

Now, for bread, I have no problem using whole grain flours. I think we should. and when I use white flour, I use unbleached. I generally, with food, take a moderation approach - I think so long as you don't go to extremes in any direction, you are probably OK - and since that is really the best I am likely to do, it's what I strive for.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Glad you guys appreciated the article. I thought it was very interesting and good reminder to me that if I'm not ok feeding Ava what I'm feeding the big kids then I need to reconsider what I'm feeding them! I typically stick to one thing or maybe two at a meal but that's because DD wants to feed herself and if she has too many choices on her tray, she just starts throwing stuff off the sides.







For lunch today she had black beans and rice and some smashed up avocado w/a bit of onion and garlic powder. She picked all the black beans out and wouldn't touch the rice today.









So she had her first non-BM poop yesterday. DH is still traumatized! And he freaked out about how we were going to get the diaper clean. I just scraped it off w/a baby wipe and threw it away. I think he thought the diaper was ruined and would have to be thrown away!









In my house, the biggies I try to avoid are HFCS, caffeine and crazy colors. Those things do a number on my kids. In a moment of weakness last week when they were home on spring break, I let them each pick out a non-caffeinated soda at the gas station. Wooo boy did I pay for that one. They were WOUND up for the rest of the afternoon. Almost drove me up the wall. I also limit snacking but that's more a function of our house and therefore kitchen area is really small. If I didn't limit snacking, there would be someone coming and going from the kitchen all day. That would drive me crazy. Plus, we have some unhealthy associations with food in a couple of the kids and there's lots of emotional/bored eating if not monitored. I wish that wasn't the case but it is what it is. So the kitchen is closed for certain parts of the day and I serve a reasonable snack part way between lunch and dinner.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

HFCS is a biggie for us. MSG is another. Crazy amounts of red food dye. Caffeine, it depends. I won't let Gabe drink our soda (unless it's root beer and there aren't any other options available at the moment) - but I will let him sip my coffee. My mom, thank goodness, is a big label reader and totally tries really hard to keep simple stuff available for snacks for DS. MIL (even when we lived with her) bought stupid things like chocolate covered marshmallows and m&m.s She nearly freaked out when I said we didn't need to take them with us, they could stay with her as a treat when he visits. We ended up taking them, but they are up high in a cupboard.

LOL about the diaper! Solid poop is no fun. The ONLY nice thing is when it is plopable.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i googled a little on the history of rice in asian cultures. most of what i read was about the japanese. it said the earliest rice was milled to remove the husk but the bran was left so it was considered a brown rice. rice became the base of their diet after several bans on animal foods by various emperors. one emperor banned fishing and provided rice to the fisherman to make up for their loss. so a shortage of other foods caused by laws banning those foods was the driving force for that. when they started eating highly processed, polished rice, they had major problems with beriberi, a disease associated with thiamin deficiency.

Annie ~ get yourself one of those sprayers you attach to the toilet!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Annie ~ get yourself one of those sprayers you attach to the toilet!


I've thought about that but a)I've heard mixed reviews that include horrifying incidents of spraying poop all over the bathroom and the person doing the spraying and b)I'd like to get her back pooping mostly in the potty. She's been on a potty strike for the past week and I think it's because it feels different (maybe a little scary?) to her since her bowel movements are changing and she doesn't want to poop on the potty. She actively tries to get up and points to the toilet paper as soon as I put her down. So I don't make her sit there. I don't want her to have a negative association with the potty. Oh and I have a whole package of flushable diaper liners from GMD that I bought before she was born so I guess I could use those. Maybe in the mornings when I know she's going to poop? She doesn't usually poop in the evenings or during the night.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, right. I always forget you are doing EC when you talk about her pooping in the diapers.

I didn't have a problem with the sprayer when it was new. Now that it's 8 years old and some of the holes have gotten clogged it sprays kind of funky. I just have to be careful how I angle everything. I think Sean may have gotten sprayed with poo a few times, though.









The flushable liners would work, too. I think I tried to get some of those when Ethan was a baby but I goofed and the ones I got weren't flushable. They were disposable, though, so I could throw them in the trash. That ended up grossing me out with poop sitting in the trash can.

Dylan doesn't have really pasty or solid poo yet. It's getting chunkier and smellier but not really thick or anything. That's one of the big drawbacks of starting solids, yucky poo!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I've never used a sprayer, but I do keep a small poo spatula in the bathroom for scraping off the thick peanut butter like poo! LOL! We are well well well into solids poo over here. It's just heaven.







I keep thinking it's not that long off till PL'ing, right? Haha.

Long day. I didn't completely keep my cool together, and I know it was b/c I was too hungry. I have to stop letting myself get so hungry that I get headaches and feel completely run down. I know I could have acted a lot better and with no regrets if I hadn't let myself go so long w/o eating. Sigh. Someday I'll learn.

I'm a little annoyed lately too b/c I'm mad/upset with my MIL. She's working SO many hours (and doesn't need to work, just does to kill time). She apparently is the only person in NJ who can make a gourmet gift basket, so her boss isn't even looking to hire anyone else to work at her Hallmark store to take some hours and free up her time. My MIL is just never available anymore and it's making me upset. I get guilt from my FIL in subtle ways..."Call mom to come over..." or "Come by with the kids and visit..." but it's HER work schedule that is the problem. She's on 4 days a week and on the weekends they go to Atlantic City. She has one day off per week and she runs all her errands that day. I've called and texted her to come over after work for wine or just to hang out, to watch Finn while I get Nora and she always has a lame excuse.

I just feel like my "village" that I used to have is gone. I have no family on my side to speak of at all, and now my MIL is too busy for us. She keeps saying come summer she won't work as much but I just don't buy it. If it's that easy, just have your hours cut now.

It makes me sad not only b/c I would like the help, but all I hear from Nora is "I really miss my Grandma." "Can we go to Grandma's today?" "Is Grandma coming over?" and I hate that I have to tell her, "No, honey, sorry, Grandma is working," Nora doesn't care. All she knows is that her Grams isn't around anymore, and misses her something fierce. All b/c she works 4 freaking days a week selling candy at a hallmark store!!










Chris is gone this whole week til Friday, and it's just me and the kids 24/7. I asked if she could stop by this week at all and she just had excuse after excuse, about being on all 4 days at work and taking the cat to the vet, etc etc. So whatever.

Then she posts all this stuff on FB about how "Grandkids are the Greatest gift"! I want to be like so then come see them once in a freaking while!!!

Ugh!!

Anyway sorry for the rant and tangent. I just had to get that off my tired, exhausted, emotional, hurt chest.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't use a sprayer. I shake off what can be shaked or plops. everything else comes out in the wash.

Carrie: MIL's UGH how frustrating! And how heartbreaking to hear how Nora misses her. I hate when people assume because you are "at home" means that your schedule has infinte flexibility. You'd think she'd bend over backwards to spend time with the kids. My MIL this weekend, when told they could come by the house to visit, because we were honestly too busy to drive over there, said that since Gabe cries when they leave and that breaks their heart (hers and FILs) they didn't want to come. So they didn't. It burns me up, because Gabe would have loved to see them. And we said we could come by one night this week, and they hem and haw (MIL does, FIL would be over here every day if he could - but he has to work too). It is such a "road only goes one way" sort of thing with them. Drives me crazy.

So, yeah, lets bash MILs! LOL

Such a busy, busy week! and there is no letting up ahead. Thank God for coffee. and wine. Norah was restless last night, and no wonder, she was in a puddle of pee. (how or why it got out of the diaper IDK) but oy.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Sorry to hear you guys are having such trouble with your MIL's. Aside from mine being annoyingly avoidant with sewing she said she would do for us, I don't have a lot to complain about right now. She's purchased all the materials for 6 cloth diapers, and we've purchased the materials for two wetbags... all BEFORE Tenley was born, and she hasn't even started on any of them. And this is even after getting a brand new super expensive sewing machine for her birthday in December. I should mentioned too that she was the one who wanted to make the diapers, we told her not to... But now that all the material has been bought and we've been banking on having them... I'd kind of like them!

Speaking of dipes- T grew into her mediums now, so we're up to 30 diapers, plus the other 6 if mil gets around to make them. I think we're good! lol Rob also bought the material and made 12 more bamboo inserts. He's super excited about them, it's cute. He even put colored thread in the serger, so they look like store bought. lol. The first ones we made were leaking tons and I was really worried we spent all that money for nothing, but I think we just didn't prep them enough, because they seem to be getting better now. We're making sure to prep these new ones really well. That means we'll have I think 40 homemade bamboo inserts, another 5 AMP inserts- 1 hemp, 4 bamboo, and then about 5 homemade microfibre inserts. Time to sell some probably...

Quick catchup... I was marvelling last night at how quickly you forget how bad things were. We have bad days now, and I get frustrated, but I forget what the really bad days were like already-- the ones where she would scream for hours at bed every night, and I felt like crying myself to sleep, only to have her wake up screaming bloody murder at 3am and not go down for another 2 hours. When nothing would console her, and she just needed to be nursed and then held, bounced, rocked, shushed, walked, etc 24 hours a day. Now our idea of a bad day is when she's fussy and won't let me put her down so I can catch up on email for 20 minutes at a time. It's funny how quickly they grow. She's seeming so much like a little person to me now, not an infant.

We have our dr appt on Thursday. I'm... anxious a bit. We've been decreasing her meds slowly to try to get her down to what the dr had asked us to do (which was 1 dose a day, which we're splitting the amount across two doses). We haven't quite gotten there, but it has dropped a lot, and so far, she seems to be showing no increase in symptoms. She started being dosed at .66 three times a day (so 2ml a day at about 12.5lbs), and is now being dosed .45 twice a day, (so .9ml at about 14lbs). So we've dropped her dose by over half already. Dr wants her to be at .66 per day though, so we've got to get her down to .33 per dose. I'll take her down to .4 tomorrow, but it won't be soon enough to show the changes before her appt. At any rate- we just got a refill of 45ml, so we've got about another month and a half more of doses, plus I think there's still one refill on that prescription (she wrote it wrong, so we have more refills than she meant...) So even if the dr says no she won't prescribe more, we've got enough to slowly wean her off of it, instead of going cold turkey.

I wanted a diaper sprayer and Rob told me in no uncertain terms that there's no way he was putting one in the bathroom. lol. We'll see once we get the laundry room finished and laundry tub installed downstairs, maybe we'll do one on there.

When it comes to solids, I don't think there's anything I'll be avoiding other than tomato for a while, since she gets super fussy right now if I have tomato sauces and stuff like that. And the honey I guess, but that honestly wouldn't have come to mind. Aside from a possibly made up gluten intolerance in my nieces, neither side of the family has food allergies.

Oh, apparently it's time to go play again!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ok, don't get mad at me, but I really don't get what the big deal is with ILs being busy. I don't see how they are under any obligation to spend time with anyone. Maybe my POV is a bit different because my mother has always worked so there was never a possibility of her being available to me or the kids. I can see being disappointed if they are saying they will do something, especially if they tell the kids directly, and then not doing it but they have every right to be busy with their own lives.

Carrie ~ Maybe your MIL is less available than you'd like because she senses your expectation that she will take care of your kids for you? I don't see anything wrong at all with her working just to kill time. If she can and wants to work, why not? She's done her time (so to speak) taking care of little kids and now is her time to live for herself.

I didn't realize how much Sean leaving again would upset me. I'm really depressed about it.

Oh, did I tell you guys that we are back to Kellen wearing just shorts without underwear or a Pull-Up and using the toilet? As long as he's hanging loose and free he doesn't poop in his pants.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think family should help family.

I don't want her to take care of the children for me. I want her to HELP. I understand you are usually alone and you do your thing and are fine w/o help, but I'm finding it lonely and very hard having two littles and managing by myself.

There is also the fact that I'm constantly hearing from my FIL that I should be spending more time w/her.

Then there is the fact that my MIL herself keeps going on about how she works too much and misses the kids, but then does nothing about it.

ETA - I definitely feel the strain of this more when Chris is away. I feel like...they know he isn't here and I am only one person. Why doesn't anyone care enough to want to lend a helping hand???


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - hugs! - I have the same dilemma with MIL - except she does NEED to work - she always says how much she misses the kids, but doesn't make any effort to see them now that we are not in the same house, it's all on us to bring the kids to her. makes me wonder, you know?

Do you have any IRL friends you can hang out with and let the kids run amok while you chat? that is what I'd be doing if left to just me and the kids. Even if it's only a couple hours, it's a welcome break.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I do, I try to do a few playdates per week (which are really mom dates) and it does help. Breaks up the day! It's nice and wonderful and I like doing that. It does help with the loneliness a lot. Plus just having people to chat with and text and all, it makes me feel less isolated and part of the world again.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, your FIL needs to stop saying stuff like that to you. Have you told him that you've invited her over but she's busy a lot of the time? Or, why doesn't he come over to help or come with his wife? I think you've said you've done this before, but have you asked her when she could come over instead of asking her to come at certain times?

You wanting her to help may mean her taking care of the kids to her. Sounds like you all are getting mixed messages. Maybe you need to have a talk with them about all of it. Or, maybe Chris does. I guess it depends on how close and comfortable you are with your ILs. I usually leave stuff with Sean's family up to him and I take care of stuff with my family. Try not to assume that it means they don't care because it will only make you feel bad. There may be other stuff going on with them.

I wouldn't say I'm fine without help. It would be nice to have it. I am used to doing everything on my own, though, yeah, but I wouldn't say I do it well.







I just do it. I get lonely a lot. I'm not very good at making and keeping up with friends, mostly because I'm such a homebody, I think. I'm not a get up and go kind of person and I don't like to commit to things because I never know if I'm going to get enough sleep the night before and feel up to wrangling the 3 kids out the door. Just the other day I was outside with Dylan and thought about going next door to see my neighbor. Then I realized I didn't have a bra on and felt weird about going over like that so I just didn't.









Or like today. It was bowling day with the homeschool group. A new unschooling mom who contacted me through an online group asked if I was going because she needs someone to sponsor her to get on base to get to the bowling alley. I told her I wasn't feeling up to it because I'm so sad about Sean leaving so suddenly and unexpectedly. Everyone in the group said that meant I really needed to get out and go but I don't think I'm like other people. If I'm feeling bad and I force myself to get out and socialize, I usually feel worse afterward. It's better for me to seclude myself for a while until I get over the worst of my feelings.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Yes, I agree with MW about the mother and/or IL's and childcare.

My MIL.......ummmmm yeah, I have nooooo idea how she had three kids!! She acts like she has no idea how to take care of a baby and/or holds them at all. She really doesn't interact with them until about 2ish.

I really don't care - it's not like she is being standoffish, I just think she really isn't a kid person. She just happened to have kids.

My mom on the other hand is really very helpful. I try not to take advantage of it like I think some of my siblings do. (not saying anyone here is trying to take advantage either). She truly does love babies though









I also feel like I am more like MW with the IRL friends. I feel like I am pretty close to my sister and my SIL (my husbands only sister) but I have no want or need to meet random people. I hardly ever *feel* like going anywhere.

I also very rarely feel like wrangling the kids out of the house. Maybe when A is bigger, but right now it is just waaaaay hard.

Carrie - I feel like your FIL needs to stop hinting about you hanging out with your MIL if SHE is the reason you aren't! I could understand if you weren't fond of her and he was trying to guilt your or something.

I also agree that we do NOT have the village that we need. To me though, I envision a village like a freaking village. The way it used to be. A small town where your kids can roam free and all the adults help to keep an eye on them. And/or a network of people who bring meals to a new mom, etc.

OMG - I got the worst freaking pink eye! I tried to take care of it without antibiotics for about 5 days but it just got worse and worse. Sat I went and got the antibiotic eyedrops and it still isn't 100% Probably about 80% Yuck


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ugh, pink eye! Yuck! Hope it clears up soon.

I don't have direct experience with a MIL but there seems to be a difference in the way most grandmothers help their DDs or DILs. Grandmothers seem to be less likely to jump in and help DILs than their own DDs. Makes sense since they would most likely have a more comfortable relationship with their own DDs. I hope I can be the type of grandmother who will be available to help any DILs I have in any way but not get in the way.

I posted on FB about Dylan napping for something like 4 hours. I finally went to check on him and he was awake. Just sort of lounging in bed. He didn't even know I checked on him the first time. I saw him move around, look up, lay back down, move around some more but he seemed content and I wasn't sure if he was fully awake so I left him. After a little while I started to wonder again so I went back to check. Again, he was just lounging in the bed. He did hear me that time and sat up and looked at me so I got him and brought him downstairs. He looked very happy to see me but a little sort of wary or confused. I'm worried that maybe he cried and I didn't hear him and so he sort of just stayed there by himself.







He's very happy and quiet and calm now, even more so than usual.

Did you all see the photos of Ryan's cloth diapering attempt that I posted to FB? I know Carrie did. I'm posting them here because I think it's hilarious but I love that Ryan even tried. He babysat while I went to acupuncture yesterday. It was nice but I won't be doing it again. When I called afterward to check on everything and see if I had time to pick up some dinner on the way home I could hear Dylan really crying in the background. When I got home Ryan said he "just" wanted to be held but it was tiring so he put him down and left him to cry while he did his own thing.







Anyway, here are the photos.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks, I hate pink eye. I got it chronically when I was a young teenager (not really sure the cause, but colloidal silver drops usually cleared it up)

I was so proud of myself for not running and getting the antibiotics and "waiting it out" but alas.......it wasn't meant to be









I have a baby monitor and 8 times out of 10 the baby (not just A, but M and J before her) don't wake up and cry. They wake up and talk to themselves and chill out. I usually just go get them so I don't miss out on their good mood







If they wake up crying I feel like they didn't get a good nap. And usually they are alot grumpier when they wake up crying.

Anyways - my point is that if I didn't have a baby monitor I wouldn't even hear them wake up and if I went to check on them they would just be chilling in their bed. I think it just means he had a super good nap!

I feel like sometimes that is the relationship between a MIL and DIL, but I don't think it has to be that way. (obviously Carrie is proof of that!) MIL was a *little* more hands on with her daughters twin boys, but not by much. Like I said, I think she really just isn't a kid person! LOL

My mom is really close to my oldest brother and she is really close to his wife as well. She took care of their baby basically for them for the first couple weeks, and she ended up breastfeeding for a year and a half because of her and my brother (who obviously saw my mom nurse 5 younger siblings).

Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I think you might end up with a DIL you really like.

OMG! Those pics are hilarious!! I love that he tried too, but bummer about the crying. At least Dylan isn't a newborn.

We should all move next to each other, then we would have a REAL village!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I don't have direct experience with a MIL but there seems to be a difference in the way most grandmothers help their DDs or DILs. Grandmothers seem to be less likely to jump in and help DILs than their own DDs. Makes sense since they would most likely have a more comfortable relationship with their own DDs. I hope I can be the type of grandmother who will be available to help any DILs I have in any way but not get in the way.


I agree with this in theory, except in my case it just hasn't panned out that way. I'm really close to my MIL. She calls me the "daughter she never had" and, probably b/c I don't have a relationship with my own mother, I turn to her for wisdom, for venting, for friendship, sometimes parenting advice but not usually.

I think what makes our relationship work is that I never comment or advise her on parenting or on her marriage, and she does the same. She doesn't comment on how we raise the kids, or ask about our marriage or interfere at all. It's nice. (I had a friend tell me once that her MIL was so pushy about grandbabies, she was disrespectful toward her and told her to "open her legs and give [her] grandkids!" at her WEDDING. I was horrified. I couldn't imagine my MIL ever making any kind of crass statement like that, or just being that involved in our personal life!)

Anyhow. I know she has a life, and I know she's perfectly allowed (for lack of a better word) to work and do as she pleases. But don't forget that Nora used to spend 3 days a week at her house since she was 3 months old til 14 months, and then 1 day a week EVERY week, when I worked at the spa. They have a real connection. Nora misses her. She misses going to grandmas. That hurts more than any silly petty business I could possibly have with her.

It might also have to do with how long your son is seeing the girl. If they meet and get married within a year or two, it would be hard to really work to be close, MW. But, I've known my MIL since I was 17...so...we knew each other for 8 years before Chris and I got married.

It's probably immature but I send my MIL pics of the kids on her cellphone with phrases like, "We miss you!" just to make her see. It works. She shows those pics to her boss and complains...yet her boss won't hire anyone new.

I do wonder how it'll work out in the summer.

They have a pool and say we are welcome to it. I won't go if they aren't there, tho, I feel weird about that! But again, my FIL says, just come over and go in thru the garage and use the pool if we aren't here. Idk. Am I being weird? Would you guys do that?

Yes, annie! We need a commune!!

I've been watching Sister Wives and lately it's not sounding so bad! j/k -- but the idea of having a bunch of other women around sounds heavenly.

Sorry about the pink eye. That is the WORST. I'm sorry it isn't going away on its own!! Boo!


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

To clarify - my SIL nursed for a year and half because of my mom and brother's influence. She wasn't really sure about it at all, and would only commit to three months of trying it out. I'm sure you all knew what I was saying, but it just read weird


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> .
> 
> They have a pool and say we are welcome to it. I won't go if they aren't there, tho, I feel weird about that! But again, my FIL says, just come over and go in thru the garage and use the pool if we aren't here. Idk. Am I being weird? Would you guys do that?
> ...


Yes! I would totally use their pool! Especially if you have a good relationship with them so you don't feel weird at their house or something. OMG - pools and swimming knock kids out so effectively!

Weren't we having this conversation on FB? I would love sister wives if it didn't involve the weird same husband bit! LOL


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Yes! I would totally use their pool! Especially if you have a good relationship with them so you don't feel weird at their house or something. OMG - pools and swimming knock kids out so effectively!
> 
> Weren't we having this conversation on FB? I would love sister wives if it didn't involve the weird same husband bit! LOL


Ok then maybe I'm being weird. Thanks!

Oh yes we were! And yes I totally agree!!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> That hurts more than any silly petty business I could possibly have with her.


I get that. My kids don't really have any kind of relationship or connection with their FIL but it still hurts me that he doesn't seem to make an effort to see them. I think I told you all how pissed I was that he hasn't done that but still asked us to stop to see him on the way home from New Hampshire. I was like, "Really? Does he have any idea what it's like to travel with little kids and he wants us to go out of our where to see him when he can't even make the effort to drive a couple of hours to see us?" After I got over my anger I told Sean it was up to him since it's his dad. We did stop to see him and he was so sweet with the kids. And, he said his wife told him to make sure he got photos. This is the woman who supposedly said she couldn't accept us as part of the family! If that's so, why is she telling her husband to make sure to get photos of us? None of it makes sense. It really made me wonder wth is going on with him. He is a good guy in many ways and it does hurt me that my boys won't have a closer relationship with their grandfather. But, there's nothing I can do about that if grandad won't make the effort.

My parents, on the other hand, seem to totally get what a hassle it is for me to go anywhere with the kids. They always come to me even though they are in their 70s. We don't see my dad as much as I'd like but that's life with old people and living so far away. I keep thinking that pretty soon I won't have that luxury. I will have to travel to see them because they just won't be able to come see me. Last time my mom visited her dog got and loose and she tried chasing after her. In the process my mom tripped and fell, broke her glasses and got two black eyes. It really scared me. I told her she was too old to go chasing after a dog like that anymore!

And, yeah, I would use their pool when they weren't home if they said it was cool. As long as you don't leave a mess and don't break things I think that's fine.

The whole village thing...hmm...I don't know. I guess I think of that as more of a community like annie described than as family taking care of each other. Of course, in a tribal community, family and community are the same thing. Everyone is related one way or another. I do think our modern, nuclear family is missing out on a lot of help and wisdom from not having elders around. I wish I had that kind of community.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

My mom is close by (less than 30 mins away) and she helps out a lot but sometimes it ends up being more of a hassle for DD because my mom likes to go to bed early so if DH needs her to watch DD in the evening while I'm at work, he usually takes DD out to her. So then DD has to get driven home at 9 PM or later and I think that just stinks. But I feel bad asking my mom to stay out at my house past 8 PM or so because I know she likes/needs to go to bed early. But she does help a lot. She's a nanny for twin girls that are 11 so she's able to take DD during the day when her babysitter can't. My MIL is 84 and living in an assisted living facility. She can't help. But DD loves to see her. We take her to church with us some weekends.

After following this conversation, I guess I'm really lucky in the set-up that we have. I'm home a lot during the day but I get out of the house and get to interact w/grownups in the evenings. DH takes care of DD a lot and he actually does a pretty good job with her. I have friends and family that can help out if we get in a pinch. I guess my only issue right now is I'd like to find someone to cover the couple of hours in the afternoon at my house rather than taking DD out to the babysitter. I'm having to interrupt her nap now to leave and that stinks. Plus her babysitter is due in October and I don't think she's going to want to watch her 2 yr old, my 1 yr old and a newborn.

Used the rice paper liners in DD's dipes this morning and they worked out well. Caught the first poop on the toilet and then the second poop was in the liner. Pretty easy cleanup!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ok - now can I be a little annoyed? She has a wake and a funeral to go to this week. She just text messaged me, "Hope all is going well. Can you print out recent pics of the kids so I can show relatives? I have hair and nail appointments tomorrow. I can pick them up tmw afternoon."










There is so much I find wrong with this that i can't even type it all out.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ok - now can I be a little annoyed? She has a wake and a funeral to go to this week. She just text messaged me, "Hope all is going well. Can you print out recent pics of the kids so I can show relatives? I have hair and nail appointments tomorrow. I can pick them up tmw afternoon."
> 
> ...


Oh yes, that would send me over the edge! Good grief! It's like she wants the grandkids to show them off but not actually interact with them.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MIL LOVES showing the babies off. I get it - all grandparents enjoy a little bit of that. It is so sad that Nora misses her so much. Can you guilt trip her by putting Nora on the phone? (I am serious - parents guilt trip kids all the time)

I am so fortunate to have found some great IRL friends, as well as my online friends to keep me sane. My parents help, but they have to work too; They aren't 50 yet, either of them (though dad will be the big 5-0 in October). I like being on my own, and having a level of independence and autonomy, but it's nice having friends you can count on also.

I want to make a temporary dietary change, to see if I can, and what difference it makes, I am just trying to decide what. Thinking about going vegetarian for the month of May . . . not Vegan, because I'm unwilling to use substitutes of some things, like butter and cheese. It won't exactly be a detox, but I think it will make a difference. If I can do it and like it, I might keep with it. Ideally I want to eat meat no more than one meal a day (as a long term goal). I just don't think it's necessary. And maybe I will lose some weight in the process!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I want to make a temporary dietary change, to see if I can, and what difference it makes, I am just trying to decide what. Thinking about going vegetarian for the month of May . . . not Vegan, because I'm unwilling to use substitutes of some things, like butter and cheese. It won't exactly be a detox, but I think it will make a difference. If I can do it and like it, I might keep with it. Ideally I want to eat meat no more than one meal a day (as a long term goal). I just don't think it's necessary. And maybe I will lose some weight in the process!


Great idea!

FWIW a few of my friends do Meatless Mondays, or only have meat once a week - something totally doable and very healthy. But your goal is good too, once per day only. Better than every meal, right? Every little bit helps.

Teething is wrecking Finn's and my sleep! Ugh. Pretty rough night again.

Though, I can't compare to Lauri. I hope you're having some better nights with ava already.

Hope everyone is doing well!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I want to try to do Vegetarian (OK, pescetarian, because I love fish and think it's very good for you, not to be classified with other meats) for a month, and then introduce meats back.

Generally, I probably only eat meat at most 2 meals a day. Breakfast is usually carbs and peanut butter or cream cheese for protein, or sometimes eggs. Lunch . . .is sometimes meat free. So it's not a huge departure. I would love to try to give up added sugars, but that would mean giving up ice cream, and I am just not willing to do that!

Norah has decided to remain toothless. LOL her drooling has really stopped the last few days. IDK why, but it's ok with me! I am sorry you are having rough nights! Pour the coffee!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I didn't say you couldn't be annoyed. You can feel however you want to feel.







I still don't get why that would be so annoying. I send photos of the boys to my FIL every time we get them. I might be a little annoyed to be expected to print the photos out myself because that's more work for me. I might suggest that I email them to her so she could print them out herself, unless part of the reason for her to pick them up from you is so that she can see the grandkids for a bit.

I think if it's upsetting you so much you need to tell them how you feel. Explain that you get overwhelmed by yourself when Chris is gone and really feel like you need their help. Certainly tell them that Nora misses them but not to guilt trip them, just to let them know how she feels, too.

One thing I'm still curious about is why Grandpa isn't factored into this more. Seems to me that, if the main purpose is to foster a relationship between the kids and their grandparents, both of them would be equally considered in your plans and your annoyances.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Carrie - I also would be slightly annoyed if my MIL just wanted me to print out pics for her. Like MW I might be like "I'll text or email them to you" Unless I had a cool printable machine where you can hook your camera right up to it and print out the pics (I've had one before, they are pretty nifty). Even then, I might not just out of annoyance 

Thinking more about what I eat has made a world of difference for me! I'm not sure if I told you all this before, but my sister got GD when she was pregnant and had to take her blood sugar. I pricked my finger once when I was feeling like I did alot of the time (really, really had no energy and just felt like I was in a brain fog) and my blood sugar was only 64. And I had just eaten. Yuck. (70 is supposed to be lowest it ever goes and that is like after fasting all night)

So, I did some research and found some things that were supposed to help you stabilize your blood sugar and started eating smaller meals more often. (the meals were more personalized to low blood sugar, like almonds, greek yogurt, protein cereal and protein shakes, and it has made a HUGE impact on how I feel.

Obviously I am still tired from having a ton of kids, but I don't get the bone crushing exhaustion I used to get and I don't crash after eating.

Also, I lost like 20 freaking pounds in 3 months!! Without even trying!







I am down to about my teenage weight........crazy. I feel bad when people are like "wow, you look great" because 1. I didn't really do anything like hit the gym and 2. What, I didn't look good before???







and 3. I don't really know if I will gain it back. I don't think I will because it really was a lifestyle change not a diet. I did it to FEEL better and I did start feeling better. I don't want to ever go back to the way I was.

I've learned that for every person/diet/meal plan that tells you this food is good, another will tell you its bad. I learned to listen to my body (I still am) and go by that. Carbs make me feel pretty crappy, (but not all carbs, like greek yogurt and cottage cheese rocks!)

Anyways - I have gone off on a tangent, but I just wanted to share that food REALLY is the root of getting better. It makes sense that it is, since it is how our body is fueled.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

So much for seeing Sean on the weekends. He just called and said it looks like they'll be working every Saturday except this one, maybe. I'm planning to drive up Friday so we can at least see him once. I'm scared to make the 6 hour drive myself.

Annie ~ how close are you to dumfries? i'd love to see you, although i don't really know if we'll have any time. i have something to give you.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, I would LOVE to see you! I'm about 2 hrs from Dumfries, and unfortunately it's out of the way from where you will be driving. You guys will come up 95 for the last bit right? I'm home all day Friday...hahaha!

Annie, that's so great that you feel so much better from your food changes! I hate the feeling that comes with low blood sugar...blech!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Or MW, depending on what time you are coming through, I could meet you in Richmond for lunch. That would be fun! But you guys would have to leave early in the morning to hit Richmond at lunchtime.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

My BIL came to visit us tonight! It was wonderful. I talked to him a bit about how I feel and he said he'd talk to mom but not in a way that she knew I said anything. He's going to suggest they come by more especially when Chris is OOT. Whew!

Nora was thrilled to see him, too. She finally got to rough house a bit, and she blabbed on and on about school. We had pancakes for dinner and he played with the kids and I actually got a chance to BREATHE and chat with an adult! It was great!

Nora's school pics came out so great. I'm happy with them. I bought some prints but not the whole package with the CD.

We had such a busy day! I'm wiped! Finally at 10 BIL left and I somehow got them both to sleep. No idea how. They were riled up!

Gonna wind down myself and have some ice cream I think, and then off to bed for me. It's 11 already!? Tired!!

ETA - I forgot to mention while I was trolling Target for cleaning supplies this afternoon, I ran into an old friend -- from HIGH school! She was my best friend back then. We fell out of touch after a rough patch and didn't reconnect as we grew up. She had a baby boy in the cart, she said he was almost 2. She's still nursing! We exchanged numbers and I think we may really reconnect! I feel wonderful about that!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - ITA - not every diet works for every person, I am glad you found one that works for you! (really a lifestyle)

MW - I think it would be worth it to go. The ride might suck, but it would be worth it.

Carrie - so glad you got some grown up time and a MIL advocate! Personally, I am not bothered about printing pictures, because so much of our family is that old school, it's more that it seemed the only reason she was coming by was to GET pictures, squeezed between the ever important hair and nail appointments (I don't mind people splurging on that stuff. It's that she has time for THAT and meanwhile is letting her relationships with her grandchildren go to pot)

AFU: I finally got a massage! DH was like - you are tense everywhere! your calves are like bricks! is there anywhere I don't have knots? I was like, um. well, maybe if I got regular massages . . . .LOL he does say I am his most challenging client.

Gabe and Norah are playing so well together lately - and not just as in - they are in the same space and not killing eachother - but Gabe plays with her and makes her laugh. I love it!

My period is due . . . the end of the week/ the weekend and I'm going to try the instead cups. I tried putting one in and taking it out while not on my period, and it's not that bad. and feels pretty comfortable.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie - so glad you got some grown up time and a MIL advocate! Personally, I am not bothered about printing pictures, because so much of our family is that old school, it's more that it seemed the only reason she was coming by was to GET pictures, squeezed between the ever important hair and nail appointments (I don't mind people splurging on that stuff. It's that she has time for THAT and meanwhile is letting her relationships with her grandchildren go to pot)


You nailed it, Kat! It isn't the printing of the pics, that's what we do for them always. It's just...yes. You got it. I felt like "Thanks for squeezing us in!"

Anyway thanks to all for listening to me vent about family stuff. Love having you guys to just spill to.

I tried those cups pre kids and liked them! I've heard the diva cup is much better - if you like the instead cups you should try that! Once AF returns for me I'm going to buy a Diva cup. They sell them even at Whole Foods.

I would love a massage! Ooh one of the perks of knowing someone in the biz! Maybe once DH gets back I'll go for one. I haven't had one since I was pg!

If all my signs were clear and not just my body jerking me around, I have about a week and a half til AF is due. I had classic O signs complete with CM drying up, etc. Are you temping, Kat? I can't remember if you decided to or not. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I might temp just to have something fun to do with myself for awhile.









We got some sleep last night! Finn woke only at 4 and 730 to nurse (tho I put him down late, at 10) I can deal with that! I'll take a few more nights like that, please! LOL!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I can't temp. I don't remember, and IDK if I ever get 4 hours straight of sleep. so I am just monitoring CM, and the bloody migraiines that seem to come right before O. One thing about the softcup/instead thing is you *can* DTD while wearing them. Haven't tried, but they say you can. Not possible with the Diva. and I am trying to add some safe- condom free days to our cycle  - you can buy softcups at Walmart LOL

You know we are here to vent! it's the perks of a flock! - you should totally go for a massage.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I realized it had been a while since I had heard from you guys... made my way over here, and 28 new replies. Yikes!

Too much to catch up on, but I Just want to say Carrie-- I completely understand what you mean, and I think you have every right to feel that way. It's soooo not about wanting your parents/in laws to take care of your kids for you. It's about wishing they seemed to care to make them a priority.

My MIL will constantly drop by with plastic 'things' for Tenley, but if we call to say she should stop by and see her, suddenly she's finding excuses. And she lives two blocks away, and only works one day a week.

My mother guilts me that she has no pictures to show off at work (and she does work full time, and needs to, so I get that part of it) and that T is growing so fast and won't recognize her, but never makes an effort to comes SEE Tenley. If I want her to come, I specifically have to say that I'm having trouble and need her here, but she won't come just to visit. She only wants us to go out to their house-- which makes a 2 hour round trip drive (and she knows T hates the car), AND even though she swore she would, my mother hasn't stopped smoking yet- so it also means taking Tenley into a house filled with smoke. It bugs me, because it makes it seem (though I know she'd disagree) that smoking means more to her than seeing her granddaughter. I've told her that I'm not comfortable with T being around it, but it hasn't made a difference.

Anyways, again, it's still that same 'yeah, I'd love to have 'help', but more than anything, I just wish they both wanted to see their granddaughter'.

In contrast, my father asks about T all the time, and so we finally had him over to watch her on Monday so we could do some work in the basement, and as soon as he got here, he put cartoons on, and kept asking her "why aren't you watching them?" lol


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: all the grandparents have made their houses non-smoking - only allowed outside. Each and every one does.still.smoke - but only out doors, or in the garage if bad weather. Is that an option?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I wouldn't take my baby to a smokey home no matter who lived there. I would insist they com to see me. If they didn't, too bad for them.








about grandpa putting on cartoons for her to watch.

I don't think I told you all that Ryan got one of those e cigarettes. He hasn't had a regular cigarette since 2 days after he got it. He also says he "smokes" a lot less. Sean's been kind of weird about it. He said they had to medivac at least 4 people out of Afghanistan because those things blew up in their faces. I searched online for any stories about them being dangerous and only found one. The guy who got injured had apparently altered the thing, though.

Annie ~ I don't think we'll have time to visit unless we stayed an extra day. We can't stay an extra day because Ethan has baseball practice on Mondays.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

That's great about Ryan! Cutting down is cutting down. And hey, maybe there's a chance it could 'go off', but... it's still something that kills you (albeit slowly), so... it's not like it's been marketed as a super safe product. I'd say he's still safer than getting all the extra chemicals and the actual 'smoke'.

akind- she smokes in the porch or in her office (downstairs) when we're there, and seems to think that makes enough of a difference. But we come home, and have to undress at the door, and jump in the shower right away, because even our skin smells like smoke. She's supposed to be moving and buying a new house this summer, and I really hope she's quit before then. I don't want them to ruin another house.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

That's why my parents made themselves smoke outside all the time (several years ago), and we told the ILs the same thing before we moved in. It makes no difference to do it once in a while, you have to do it all the time. You have to want to change.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

And smoking in one room will result in the smoke being throughout the house. Ryan has tried a few times over the years to get away with smoking in his room but I always smell it. He tried lining his door with blankets and towels. He even popped the screen out of his window and tried half hanging out the window but I could still smell it. I think the AC vent in his room is somehow directly connected to the one in my bathroom because the smell was very strong in there. He was always shocked when I'd catch him in the middle of the night when he thought I was sleeping. I'd smell it in my bathroom when I got up to pee.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

^ yeah, that. honestly, MIL still smokes in her bathroom at night, because she is too lazy to go outside then. My parents have a deck off their bedroom for that purpose  and yes, you can smell MIL's smokes downstairs. I will admit, the smell is drastically lessened from when they both smoked in the house the whole time. I could barely breathe.

Gabe is at MIL's house for today, I get him back tomorrow. so, since his bed was empty, I nursed Norah down to sleep there. She slept until 5:30 this morning, Nurses for about a half hour, and now she's back asleep. I am happy she slept so well on her own, but sad too. I think I need to drag the futon mattress into one of the rooms so that can be "her" bed. I *think* eventually I will just have her and Gabe share a bed for a while, but not until she's a bit bigger.(like 12 or 18 months)


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I suck at GD!!! That's all. I'm trying and trying but man, Nora is challenging me every step of the way!!

I have read over and over that this age is make it or break it with GD. If you can get it to work, then it's wonderful, but most ppl give up b/c it's so hard. What do you guys think?

I also picked a fight with a friend today b/c she didn't comment all excited on a picture of Finn that I sent her. I profusely apologized and told her I think I subconsciously picked that fight b/c I'm lonely, and b/c Finn hit so many milestones this week with nobody here but me to see, that I just overreacted. She accepted. All is fine. But I'm still lonely! WAH! Chris gets home tonight, probably around 11. I'll be so tired. Wah.

Finn is napping so I should get the laundry going. I'll bbl! HAPPY FRIDAY ALL!!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

dude, I read that as gestational diabetes at first!! and it is hard. you have to find what works for Nora and you. g,

I kniw I struggle every day (1ht, in case it isnt obviou!LOL)

hooray for Chris being home! off to a mommy date night! - both our hubbies are working so we are having a mom in

i


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think what's going to work is just surviving! I wonder some times how much I actually need to teach her vs how much she's just going to do on her own as she matures.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I wonder that. I hate the phrase "He/she MUST learn to do X sometime" because half the time, no they don't (like sit in a high chair) or it will come in time anyway. Not saying we never teach our kids anything, but so much is leading by example, and not totally concious on my part. At least right now.

Hope you are enjoying time with your hubby.

My notifications aren't working again. ARGH!

going to the Great Cloth Diaper Change today, so excited! looking forward to bag full of goodies, and hopefully winning something too! then to a fair and fireworks. Fun! I get my Gabe back today - I have missed him so much!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1 you guys always go to such cool things! I wish I had your energy...sometimes I get tired just reading your plans!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Where is MW these past few days? Did they have plans this weekend that I didn't see? Hmm.

Wish I had GCD plans this weekend! It looked so fun! Oh well, next time (he should still be in dipes)!

Chris is back as of last night so we went for a family walk this morning, then got lunch and hung out in the backyard. Was fun! Just put Finn down for his nap and am hoping to get some time to clean the house. BBL!


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Pretty sure MW took the boys up to Quantico to see her DH this weekend. I know she was thinking about it because we were going to try to meet up but I never heard for sure if she decided to go.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Hey guys. Yeah, I'm up in Northern Virginia. Right now I'm at my mom's but we've been staying with Sean in Quantico. We're heading home tomorrow. I'm seriously thinking about moving up here to my mom's for the 2 months that Sean is at Quantico. I was so depressed the last week at home by myself. I cried a lot, which I hardly ever do, and just felt like I could not do all of this on my own again. My mom actually seems excited about the idea. She's been trying to talk me into not even bothering to go back home for a bit. The only two things that are keeping me from committing are having to drive home and then back up here by myself (the drive up here was pretty horrible) and leaving Ryan alone in our house for 2 months.

Carrie ~ I think it depends a lot on what you mean by GD. That can encompass so much. It really depends on what you are doing and why? I'm sure you know where I fall on the GD spectrum. I believe that most kids will eventually learn whatever they need to know with time and maturity as long as they are provided with guidance and modeling. I don't think that any form of punishment or coercion is necessary. It's hard to get to that point, though. I've been working on it for years and am still not completely there in my daily practice.

Modeling is my biggest problem. Ethan has taken to calling people idiots. I realized he does that because he hears me say it. He is horrible in the car, just complaining about everything and so dramatic about it. He blames me and tells me I lied if things don't go exactly how I told him that I expect. I've been wondering what has made him so fussy. I'm embarrassed to say that I think he probably learned it from listening to me fuss at Sean. I had one of those, "Ah ha!" moments when he said something that was word-for-word exactly what I say to Sean.







I've decided that if I want Ethan to be nicer to the rest of us, I need to really start being nicer to Sean.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

It is such an eye opener, hearing things you say come out of your kids' mouths. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes not. I think if your mother won't drive you crazy, status in Virginia. You can meet up with MM? for IRL friend stuff too.

Talk about tired! Yesterday we did the GCDC, met moms to swap stuff, drove an hour to my sisters where the fair was cancelled, watched fireworks, ate dairy queen, and drove home.

Today: went to the big Nosh, a local Jewish festival, the mall, met another mama to swap stuff, Walmart, now home. And all with just me and the kids. Though, I back wrap Norah everywhere now, and I hear so many great things: how awesome I am, how happy my kids are!, and it's enough to make you feel really good about your parenting. Until of course

My bad mommy moment of the day. I set Gabe in his carseat, but can't strap him in with Norah on my back, since we are too close to the next car. I strap Norah in, buckle up, and drive off. Then I see Gabe STANDING UP messing with the light. I was like " oh sh!t!!" and pulled over to strap him in. OMG! Bad mommy!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Hey guys. Yeah, I'm up in Northern Virginia. Right now I'm at my mom's but we've been staying with Sean in Quantico. We're heading home tomorrow. I'm seriously thinking about moving up here to my mom's for the 2 months that Sean is at Quantico. I was so depressed the last week at home by myself. I cried a lot, which I hardly ever do, and just felt like I could not do all of this on my own again. My mom actually seems excited about the idea. She's been trying to talk me into not even bothering to go back home for a bit. The only two things that are keeping me from committing are having to drive home and then back up here by myself (the drive up here was pretty horrible) and leaving Ryan alone in our house for 2 months.
> Carrie ~ I think it depends a lot on what you mean by GD. That can encompass so much. It really depends on what you are doing and why? I'm sure you know where I fall on the GD spectrum. I believe that most kids will eventually learn whatever they need to know with time and maturity as long as they are provided with guidance and modeling. I don't think that any form of punishment or coercion is necessary. It's hard to get to that point, though. I've been working on it for years and am still not completely there in my daily practice.
> ...


I guess I know that - I know eventually she will "get it" if it's going to be something worth getting. But in the meantime I need to work on not losing my shit when I'm pushed to my limit. The other day i found a great list of things to do instead of yelling or hitting your child and I printed it out and put it where I'll see it. I don't hit, but I do yell. LOUD. And it's stupid b/c it doesn't work, it makes me feel horrible, and Nora often cries and says something like, "...inside voice, mommy!" which makes me feel like a million bucks, you know? And i mean, how scared must she be? To say something like that? You know? Ugh.

I get the most out of control when it comes to hitting/keeping hands to yourself. I think that's my one big hurdle to overcome. I know what to do and what to say, but then she punches me or hits me, or hits the baby, and it's all out the window. I need to try harder. I have trouble even admitting this to you all b/c I so admire your parenting and feel bad that I'm not "as good" as you all!

I'm such a work in progress. I wonder at times if I'll ever BE the parent I want to be, or if I need to accept who I am now and just keep at it. And not be so hard on myself.

I have to admit I LOLed at what you said about Ethan. Just in an "I know what you mean" sort of way. Ohhh we do need to watch our mouths around these kids, don't we?

How do you feel about having to be nicer to Sean?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> It is such an eye opener, hearing things you say come out of your kids' mouths. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes not. I think if your mother won't drive you crazy, status in Virginia. You can meet up with MM? for IRL friend stuff too.
> Talk about tired! Yesterday we did the GCDC, met moms to swap stuff, drove an hour to my sisters where the fair was cancelled, watched fireworks, ate dairy queen, and drove home.
> ...


I did that coming home from school the other day -- tho Nora caught it in time! I opened Finns door, and she climbed inside across both seats, which she never really does, I always go around and let her in. Anyway, I buckled Finn and then got in the car, and started to back up and she goes, "WAIT! MY BUCKLES!!" I literally was like, "No way?! I forgot your buckles?!" I totally didn't realize I'd forgotten.

Once when she was YOUNG... probably Gabe's age..I did the same thing. I drove off, looked in my mirror and said, "Nora, get back in your seat!" Wait...get back in your seat!? I pulled over into a parkiing lot and buckled her in! OMG I was horrified at myself. It took a few min to get my composure!

No sleep last night. Baby Finn has forgotten how to sleep! Ugh! The coffee will be necessary today! Going to get the kids fed and hydrated and then I think head out for a puddle walk.

Oh, my BIL and MIL came by to babysit last night so Chris and I could go see a movie. I felt so rushed! My gosh, we barely got out of the movie and grabbed tacos to go and headed back. It was great to get out but I seriously feel like DH and I got no time to actually chat or be together. But, all said, great great movie (we saw Hunger Games) and wonderful to get out of the house and not worry about the children for a few hours. I don't know when the next time will be, so I'm going to relish in it!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am so glad I am not the only one. I was like, this is BAD. Not as bad as forgetting your kids are in the car, but BAD.

You need them to come over while you and DH have dinner or something where you can walk and talk and stuff. Though I know the kids enjoyed it, they love their uncle (and Grandma!!)

So, Potty Training. I put him in training pants (cloth ones) around 8 or 9 this morning. He stayed dry until nearly 12. I don't know that I can really call it an "accident", because he wasn't even very wet, I think he just couldn't hold it anymore. He did sit, fully clothed, on the potty, once. So, it's a start! I put him back in a diaper for naptime, and once he wakes up, I will put him back in a trainer. So goes Day 1. I think he "gets" it though - he knows he's not supposed to pee in the trainer (otherwise he wouldn't have gone so long dry). and I did catch him holding himself when he needed to go, but by the time we got to the bathroom, he changed his mind and stayed dry another 1/2 hour or more. And we learned that he CAN pull his pants and trainer up and down.

So, really, I guess it's not bad for our first morning really trying.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I'm such a work in progress. I wonder at times if I'll ever BE the parent I want to be, or if I need to accept who I am now and just keep at it. And not be so hard on myself.


Don't be so hard on yourself. The fact that you recognize and admit that yelling isn't the best thing to do and care enough to try to not do it (so much) is a big thing. I don't believe that anyone never loses it. If they tell you that, they are lying.







There is never really an endpoint with parenting. It's always a work in progress.

I yell sometimes, too, mostly at Kellen.







Sometimes he just gets so out of control and won't listen to anything I say and I scream at him. Like today while we were driving in the car he asked me about slingshotting something. We'd already had a talk with him about throwing things in the car because he threw a water bottle that hit me while I was driving. So, while I'll telling him again that throwing things in the car is absolutely never ok and trying to get him to get that he needs to stop and think about things, he throws a crayon! I didn't yell at him that time because I was actually so mad that I couldn't talk but that's the type of thing that I might lose it over.

I can be nicer to Sean. We actually had a pretty good time together this weekend. I tried really hard not to make snide remarks to him. He was sweeter and helpful.

I left Ethan unbuckled once. I got a little ways down the road and he told me he wasn't buckled.

Now that I'm home and feeling better I don't know if I'll go to my mom's. The nice thing about going there is that I can always come home if we fight too much. I'm still not sure what to do.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I haven't left T unbuckled yet, but we were out shopping the other day, and went to put her back into her seat (ie she had already been in it that day), and it moved. Like... 6 inches. Apparently the day before when DH put my niece's seat in the car, it loosened the latch strap on ours, so the one side was practically not even attached to the car. Oops!!

Speaking of, did I tell you guys about that? I know I wrote about it on my fb parenting group, but don't remember if I posted here. So DH drove my 3.5 year old, 40lb niece the other day to preschool in the morning. He showed up at the house, and they handed him her seat-- a backless booster. That's it. In my province, it is law that you must have children under 5 years and under 50lbs in an approved child restraint and they're in the process of joining other provinces in moving that up to 8 years and 80lbs I think. She is way too little and babyish still to be in a booster at all, let alone a backless one. I mean really, she's small enough that she could have rear faced in Tenley's seat until just very recently- and could forward face in it for another 2 years probably. The thought of her being in this completely detached from the vehicle, non belt positioning booster is just... I shake my head at it. I mean WHY? Why wouldn't you want to keep your child in a safer seat. And she had one! I'm pretty sure the seat she had before was a combo FF and belt positioning booster. So... why? Argh. Anyways, I told DH to refuse to take her next time unless he put her in Tenley's seat. He offered, and was told no, she was fine in the one she had. But really, how would he ever forgive himself if something happened to her, and he KNEW she shouldn't have been in the seat they provided, but went with it anyways? sigh. I just don't get people.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Omg, I so agree with you! Someone I know has a 3.5 year old, who is big for his age, granted, he's just over 50 lbs, and tall... but he's in a backless booster, too. The same thing you're describing. She says she couldn't/can't afford a new seat, and he's "too big" for most out there that aren't $300 so...for $40 at walmart you get a backless booster. I cringe though. But what can I do?

Thanks, Alysia, for your kind words. I'm so hard on myself. I think I'm just in a funk lately in many ways and trying to handle all these other big emotions I have going on. So thanks.

Kat, how did day 1 go??


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh, and yes, Don't be too hard on yourself! I'm beginning to think that the patience part of parenting is 50% for the kids, and 50% for us. It would be easier just to not care about your parenting, and just scream and yell and take that as normal. When you have high expectations of yourself (which we do, and should!), it's hard to remember to be gentle with yourself as well. We're learning and growing, just as they are.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think some parents are just lazy with the child car seats. I've seen plenty who don't bother to put their kids belted in any seat at all. A backless booster is a lot easier to move from one vehicle to another. It's hard for me to believe cost is the issue. I bought Ethan a highback booster a few months ago (he's 8yo old). It only cost me maybe $60 at Wal-Mart. A very popular, highly recommended one, the Graco Highback Turbo, I think.

Dylan got another tooth! This teething has got to be over soon, right? Only one more for the front 8.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Parenting stuff is uber hard! Some days are good, some days are bad. I think one of the best things you can do as a parent if you lose your cool is to be up front with your kid. After you've cooled down, a simple "Hey, I'm sorry that I yelled at you. I was very frustrated but that's not o.k. I'm going to work really hard at not doing that again." I think that's the best behavior to model to a kid. Parents aren't perfect. We're going to make mistakes. But if we can show our kids how to respond after you make a mistake, I think that's worth a ton.

I have no patience for carseat stuff. There's SO much information out there about what's currently recommended, especially if you do well-baby/well-child visits. There's always a poster at my doctor's office about acceptable tolerance for carseats and booster seats. But people have some perverse desire to graduate their kids to the next thing, like it's an example of how "advanced" their kid is. So silly. It's not safe. Period.

DD ate so much solid food on Friday and Saturday that now she super constipated. Like screaming in pain while she's straining constipated.







I feel so bad for her! I'm texting DH right now trying to convince him to use the suppository that he picked up tonight before I get home from work. I don't know if he's brave enough to do it.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Finn is backed up again to. Im not sure what im giving him that's causing it. :-( today I made sure to feed him some prunes, and I'm going to offer prunes more regularly until I can figure it out. We haven't had bananas in awhile...maybe just too many of those puffs or Cheerios?? He's straining to go, as well.
Hopefully the suppository helps Ava. Poor babies.

Finn's teething something awful, too. Drooly hot mess! I'm eager to see which tooth is coming next!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> After you've cooled down, a simple "Hey, I'm sorry that I yelled at you. I was very frustrated but that's not o.k. I'm going to work really hard at not doing that again." I think that's the best behavior to model to a kid. Parents aren't perfect. We're going to make mistakes. But if we can show our kids how to respond after you make a mistake, I think that's worth a ton.
> 
> ...


baby on arm...

YES!

YES!

and oh no!  poor girl.

MW-- I think that's exactly it for them-- the mom doesn't drive, so the daughter is often in other people's vehicles, and I think it was probably a matter of the backless booster being easier to move. so sad. Tenley's seat fits to 65lbs, and she will be in it until either she outgrows it, or we have another baby, in which case, we'll buy her a new seat at that time. That means she could be in this seat until she's SIX potentially. In a five point harness. The only way she'll be out of it earlier is if she outgrows the height, and then, we'll go with a nautilus probably. And my niece who is 3.5 and 40lbs, is in a glorified phone book! I just... yeah. No excuses.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carseats - you can get a Cosco Scenera at Walmart (which is a convertible, and actually gets decent safety ratings) for about $50. Less if you watch sales. It's what my mom has in her car, it was Gabe's and now it's Norah's. Gabe now sits in whatever the Cosco high back booster is. Both are easy to install, with either seat belt or LATCH, depending on what you have. If I would be toting around an extra kid on a regular basis, I would shell out and get one just to have on hand. So if mom showed up with the "glorified phone book" (love it!) you could say, we're good! got it covered!

Now, I will admit, I want to be safe, but I am also cheap. I am NOT spending $300 on a carseat. $150 is my absolute max. If you watch sales and clearance aisles (and the discount sites like zulily, etc) you can find great carseats at a reasonable price. Honestly, I take the kids in the BRU or BBB and see which seat they seem happiest in, and is within my price range. Norah is in Grago MyRide 65. A friend upgraded her seats and sold it to me for $50. Now, normally I would not buy used, but I I know this friend rather well (she was my doula with Norah) and trust her to sell me something not recalled or expired, or been in a crash. I just need to get another seat for DH's car now . .. . or put this in DH's car and get me a something else.

Poor constipated babies! hope they feel better!

Potty training D1 went ok . . . I mean, as well as can be expected. He did sit on the froggy potty. Once even without undies! no pee or poop in it. But it's only Day 1. Hoping on Day 2 we can do slightly better. I was going to do a timed thing, but he has such long dry spells it seemed ridiculous, so now I am just watching him for cues, it seems more natural.

Yay Finn on teeth! Norah's can wait. LOL


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm waiting for a Britax sale! I want a Marathon 70 for Finn but they are super pricey ($230-$250) and I thought I saw one in a pretty sagey green that I can't find anymore. But. Nonetheless, if I can get it cheaper I want it cheaper! I hear you on that, Kat!

Ugh, my coffee is brewing. DH is playing with Finn for the moment so I can have a minute. He was up from 4-6 tossing and turning (Finn, not DH) b/c he couldn't breathe thru his nose! I did everytihng - saline, nose frida, propped him up, sat up and nursed, humidifier, everything. Nothing helped. He just had to figure out how to settle and breathe thru his mouth. My throat is super sore so maybe the air was just to dry. And then he was up for the day at 730! UGH!!

Reotty - waiting for natural cues makes so much more sense to me than a timer. Tho - a timer can help a busy mama who can't keep both eyes on one child the whole time. I think with Finn I'll use both when it's time. With DD I just kept on her for telling me when she had to go. How verbal is Gabe? What signals is he giving you?


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Um, so far, the typical boy grabbing at his crotch and crossing his legs LOL He says Poop really well (ex post facto of course) and "eee" when I pee. so, that's something.

You need to sign up for Zulily - they had britax on yesterday and sold out really fast. Marathon 70 (black one and a red one) were $189.00. I mean, I know the $300 car seats are nice and fantastic, and if everyone could, they would have one. But I also have to believe there are perfectly safe, good options at the lower end of the price spectrum. I might have to adjust harness hight manually, but that is not a big deal to me. I do want cupholders . . . but it's hard finding them in a seat I like - I love the integrated ones, not the clip on the side ones.

More coffee may be needed today.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

We've got a myride 65, and so does Lauri. I love it to pieces. And yes- the cupholders! lolOne of the mamas in my parenting group is a carseat tech, and she always recommends the myride or the Nautilus. But yes- Britax if you can do that. I couldn't make the jump for the added price- I just didn't see enough ectra features. That said-- I think it's more expensive up here compared to other seats, compared to down there, so that makes a difference.

Kat-- I'm pretty sure that cosco seat is that one they had her in. Don't understand why they would have switched.

All this talk about potty training has me anxious to start a bit of EC with Ten again. We were doing some of it, but got lazy. I want to start again, at least part time.

Ten slept whole night in her crib last night! Went into it just after 10, I went in and comforted her once at about 1030, and then she slept until 2am, nursed and cuddled, then again at 5 something, nursed and cuddled, and then awake at 7am, and we brought her into bed for cuddles, but she never fell back asleep. Oh, it was glorious. In contrast, when I bring her into bed, she sleeps normally in the crib from 10 til 1, then is up at 230, and 4, and 5, and 6, and then 7, and up every 15 minutes from then until I decide to get out of bed. Even if it's just a night, I needed that!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm on zulilly! WTF! I just need to check it -- man that's a good price! I always miss deals b/c I never check those sites!

I don't think that the lower end ones are unsafe, persay, but I do think the higher up ones have more features, maybe higher weight limits, integrated cupholders, fancy upholstery. You know? Maybe they are more comfortable or easier to install. But safer? No. You have to pick one that fits your car, your child, your budget, your style -- sometimes that's a pricey one, sometimes not. The Car Seat Lady says, 'The safest, best car seat is the one that will fit securely in your vehicle, that fits your child's age, height, and weight, that you can operate correctly every time, and that fits your budget. Looking at safety ratings is not enough--if the seat rated "safest" doesn't fit securely in your vehicle, or if you can't figure out how to operate it, it is NOT the best seat for YOU."

(http://www.thecarseatlady.com/choosing_a_car_seat/choosing_a_car_seat.html)

Hey, Poop and EEE are enough to convey a message, before or after the fact! Once he realizes the connection, he'll get better at telling you. For awhile it'll probably be as he's doing it, but then it'll be before (like a half second!) and then it'll be well before. Oooohhh potty training is such fun!









Nora is finally at a stage where she can say, "Hey I need to go," and we're able to find a bathroom soon, and she can hold it til we find one. I'm happy with that! She also can pretty much take herself, so I don't have to even wipe her anymore. Sometimes she wants help with #2 but that's fine with me!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carseats: I have two Britax Boulevards (old style from 2008, I think) and a Britax Frontier Booster. I paid for one Boulevard on sale from Albeebaby.com. They seem to have lower prices than other places a lot of times. I also got that GoPod thing from there for less and in the color I wanted. Anyway, the 2nd Boulevard and the Frontier were paid for by my insurance company after Ryan wrecked my Subaru with the other seats in it. There's no way I could have afforded all of them. I hate that stores don't carry the Boulevard for comparison with the Marathon and other brands.

I love my Boulevards (except for older kids who could really use cup holders). Kellen still rides in his in Sean's Jeep. He's almost 5 and weighs about 35 lbs. (maybe). Both my boys, who are small and short, grow out of the seats in length long before weight. Weight-wise, Ethan could still ride in the Boulevard since he's only 48-50 lbs., but his hip to shoulder height is too long to fit safely. Kellen rides in the Frontier with the 5-point harness in my van.

That's one nice thing about the Boulevards, the height and weight limits are higher than most other seats, or they were when I bought them. There are a few that are starting to catch up. I think the big extra safety thing with the Britax is their side impact protection. Supposedly, it's been tested and found to be very safe whereas other brands may have side impact safety but it hasn't been tested. However, I also think it's only been tested by the manufacturers, not by any independent entity. All other child safety seats on the market have to meet the same minimum safety requirements so they are all safe enough, I guess (Although, the government is notorious for not always keeping up with what's safest, just bare minimums. KWIM?)

The other major safety thing with the Britax is it's easy installation compared with other brands. I don't find installing a child safety seat easy at all with either the LATCH system or the seatbelt. The Britax ones are the easiest I have used but they still aren't easy, especially when compared to a booster that doesn't have to be attached to the car at all. Having to remove a seat to adjust the harness height is major PITA to me. I love that the Boulevards can be adjusted without unlatching them. I hate that I can't do that with the Frontier (which I would not recommend).

Ethan rode in the Frontier booster with the 5-point harness until last fall. He was almost 8yo. I had a lot of angst about letting him use just the seatbelt. But, I looked and asked around on the Safety board here and got some info that maybe once a child is a certain size a properly positioned seatbelt is just as safe or safer than a 5-point harness. He still needs the highback seatbelt shoulder guide for the car seatbelt to fit him, though. It's hard for me to imagine that the seatbelt would fit a 3yo properly without that shoulder guide.

I can't remember the minimum requirements for a booster but I'm pretty sure Kellen meets them. I'm guessing the 3yo meets those minimum weight requirements, too. I see plenty of 2yos in boosters. That's not necessarily what is safest, as you all have said, and I don't get why someone wouldn't do what was safest. Maybe they just don't understand and assume that the minimum requirements are the safest.









I feel like I'm all over the place with this post. I've been interrupted so many times that I can't keep my train of thought or remember if there was anything else I wanted to say. Oh well.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Don't worry, it all made sense!

And I totally get what you guys mean about ease. I love the myride, but it's not terribly easy to adjust as she grows, and we have to take it out to change the height of the shoulder straps. I didn't get why the peg perego we were borrowing was so expensive- and then I started to use the Graco and realized how easy it made the Peg perego seem. The Peg has the easiest latch points ever (push button, which I think is the same in the britax), and the height adjustment too, it's just a push and slide button. I get now why someone would pay the extra money for that. Does it make it safer? Like Carrie said- it depends on the parents and how they're using it. If it being easier to change size, means that you're keeping the settings more accurate than you would if you had to take the seat out, then yes, it's 'safer', but that's not universal, obviously.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Rethreading the harness height is really not that bad, and I don't have to do it often, and when I do, it's an excuse to clean under and vacuum the car seats. That's why, for me, not a big deal. Now, our infant/bucket seat, is no-thread and it's great, because little babies grow the fastest. Once we moved to a convertible, I might move them every 6 months or so.

I don't know if Wayne will continue on the potty training thing while I am at work tomorrow, we'll see. But I think Thursday we will do some naked time. Friday we are having a playdate with a bunch of people at the house and I think I wil do diapers that day (just for one less chaotic thing). You know what's so not comforting? none of the grandparents really know anything about potty training, because they sent us to our grandparents for it. BOO.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah, that's the thing. We moved T into this seat at... 3 months? So in the past two months, I think we've already moved it twice. It'll slow down though, I know. And like you said- it's not a huge deal, but I do get the draw of having one that you just press the button.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Blargh, had a huge post and my browser crashed! Let's try again.

All carseats are safe. Some have better "creature" features that make them easier to install, more comfortable to ride in, etc. But they are all safe. When I was looking for a seat for DD, I ruled out the Britax models because I wanted a convertible I could use from birth and historically, Britax models don't work from birth for most babies because their lowest harness setting is too high. So I got the Graco MyRide 65. I love it. It's comfy, easy to install and adjust and not too expensive. DD also uses the Cosco Scenera in DH's car. It isn't as comfortable and I wouldn't want her to have to ride in it for long periods.

Little ones in booster seats, either high back or backless...not a good idea. Kids should stay in a harnessed seat until they outgrow it and then move to a booster until they are ready for a seatbelt only. If a child fidgets while riding or falls asleep in the car, they should not be in a booster. The chance of them shifting and then not having the seatbelt on them properly is too great. I don't know any 2-4 yr old that doesn't fidget and shift in the car or fall asleep at least sometimes on trips. Usually around 5-7 years old, kids are mature enough to start using a booster.

We finally got DD's potty issues solved! Took prune juice to get things moving but she's relatively back to normal now. She even signed "eat" today! I think part of the problem was she ate a lot more processed food this weekend. She really enjoyed the Boca burger but that's one of those things where sometimes I think it would be better to just give her a hamburger made from quality ground beef rather than the over processed fake stuff, you know? Tough call.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

What about the Dr Praegers veggie burgers, Lauri? For us meat isn't an option, but if you wanted a patty that wasn't as processed, that's not a bad choice. Finn loves Boca burgers. We had then twice last week. I wonder if that's what backed him up, too??? Interesting!

I fed him regular prunes, and skipped all the puffs/Cheerios for a few days. He finally tonight had a firm but much easier poo. In fact I didn't even realize it until he was already asleep. Hate waking a sound asleep baby to change a poop diaper!!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> What about the Dr Praegers veggie burgers, Lauri? For us meat isn't an option, but if you wanted a patty that wasn't as processed, that's not a bad choice. Finn loves Boca burgers. We had then twice last week. I wonder if that's what backed him up, too??? Interesting!
> I fed him regular prunes, and skipped all the puffs/Cheerios for a few days. He finally tonight had a firm but much easier poo. In fact I didn't even realize it until he was already asleep. Hate waking a sound asleep baby to change a poop diaper!!
> Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


I haven't tried the Dr. Praeger's burgers yet. We've only done the spinach bites. I'll have to check them out.

What kind of puffs do you have? I gave DD the Plum Organic ones in her easter basket and I tasted one the other day and they were awful! I felt like I could taste all the chemicals. I threw them out. She didn't like them either. She's been enjoying the Morning O's from Whole Foods.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I think I might move the MyRide to DH's car. It's kind of high, and my Scion is a little higher than your average car, but not as high as most SUVs, and I am short, and it's a little tricky getting DD in and out, especially if she's asleep. I found a Safety 1st seat I like,and that I like the price of, but need to see it in person to know if it'll be a good fit for my car - She's in my car the most, so I should have a *good* seat in there - as in comfortable, etc.

I think I must be PMS'ing. I am super emotional and not myself. (I am not normally very PMS prone) I have all but denied DH DTD the last few days, because it's late, I am exhausted, and I don't feel connected (partly because we haven't been DTD as often lately) Though I don't know really when to expect AF . . . I am on day 44. My first cycle back with DS was 60 days long. the next was 52, then 56, 55, then the cycle I got pregnant - would have been a 30 day cycle. UGH.

yay for babies pooping! We used the target brand puffs with DS. and the little fruits and freeze dried yogurt bites.

I am trying to enjoy my meat now, gearing up for Meatless in May. I feel like I need to do something, my weight is creeping back up.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh the Plum ones I bought were gross. They were like purple carrot or something crazy like that. I like the sweet potato Up and Up brand one (target). The banana one is too fake banana-y for me. The apple Up and Up brand one is good too. I agree with you - if I don't like it or won't eat it, I won't give it to him.

Most of the time it's cheerios anyway. But I like being able to throw the container of puffs in the diaper bag for errands.

If I O'ed when I think I did, AF should come within the next week or so. I'm curious to see what happens! Not excited, but curious, lol.

DH and I have been having problems.







I won't go into it, but I don't know what is going on. We are just on totally different pages right now. Maybe it's a 7 year itch thing (14 years together next month), maybe it's sleep deprivation, maybe it's just...idk. We fight and argue about different things. He is much more concerned about getting his workout in or having sex. I'm much more concerned about happy kids and getting sleep. The problem lies in that he can't find any sympathy for my issues, and honestly I'm having trouble feeling sympathy for his issues.

Another thing is that he comes across very bored and disengaged 99% of the time.

Sighh.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

What is it with disengaged men? Last night, for example, I went in to DH's office and said, the baby and I are going to lie down, I know he heard and understood, he gave baby kisses goodnight. NONETHELESS, when DS followed us to bed, and was all wriggly and crap, did he come in and get him? NOOOO he did not. finally, 15 minutes later, DS leaves on his own. If he had settled and went to sleep, or just to cuddle, it would be ok. But he wants to practically on the baby and constantly moving around, and she is soooo tired, she was out as soon as I put the nipple in her mouth, but kept waking up b/c DS was all over. - and then!! once both kids were in bed, we watched like 1/2 hour of TV (it was 11:30 and I was falling asleep on the couch) I said, I'm going to bed. and DH looked dissappointed - I know he wanted to have sex, as we are expecting my period any day, but I DO NOT care. Maybe it's just the PMS talking. but I'm tired and he has made no effort to be helpful or engage with me all freaking day. OK. rant over. (that was fresh on my mind)

And the work thing . . . we are trying to find a balance. but it's hard, as we both feel our work should take priority. UGH. I am just tired and overwhelmed by crap. I need the next 2 days off to recharge!

So, in other words, I have no words of advice right now, only commisseration. It is seven years for us in October.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> and then!! once both kids were in bed, we watched like 1/2 hour of TV (it was 11:30 and I was falling asleep on the couch) I said, I'm going to bed. and DH looked dissappointed - I know he wanted to have sex, as we are expecting my period any day, but I DO NOT care. Maybe it's just the PMS talking. but I'm tired and he has made no effort to be helpful or engage with me all freaking day. OK. rant over. (that was fresh on my mind)












That happens to me/us all the time. The other night even, it was like 10 and he said he wanted to watch a movie. I think there's an understanding we either watch TV/movie OR dtd, not one THEN the other (b/c then it'll be midnight or later, and oh hell no). So the movie ends and he makes eyes at me and I'm like, "Are you crazy?" in my head. For exactly the same reasons you said - typical non-engaging DH all day, plus late at night! Sorry, dude, no sympathy.

Interesting that you're coming up on the 7 too. Hmm.

I mentioned the other day that something in the back of my mind was adopting some day. And he completely rolled his eyes at me, blew me off and said, "Why don't you just open a daycare??"

That made me so mad. Made me think maybe our future goals don't mesh.

I have a feeling in my heart that if I do want more kids, it won't be with him. I'm finally allowing myself to explore those feelings and honestly, it doesn't scare me to think about anymore. Do you think it's a phase? Normal even? Idk!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Opening a day care is not the same thing! those are other people's babies. Now if he had suggesting maybe fostering vs. adopting, I could almost see that. though fostering is HARD. I don't think I have the heart for that. I did tell DH I would totally surrogate for someone if they asked me. I wouldn't do it through an agency, but would for a good friend or the right family member. I like pregnancy, and both of mine have been easy. I just know I am not done with pregnancy and babies yet, though I know DH has moments where he feels he is.

As for your feelings, if they are valid, you know, there's nothing wrong about that. I just worry about the logistics of a split - grandmas, cousins, etc. I feel so conflicted over holidays and things as it is, a split would just mean way more drama. and I hate drama. I also hate the idea of staying together for the kids. Kids need happy parents. All that said - I do love DH, and can't imagine having babies with anyone else. We just haven't had any good time to talk and hash things out, because, like, for example, yesterday - I was up at 6 to work, kids were up around 8 ish . . . he has to leave around 1 for work, and God knows I have a hard time getting any work done once he's gone and the kids are awake. And YET he decides before he leaves that he needs to make some phone calls to confirm client appointments I know it's stuff that does need to be done, but I NEED to work. I am bringing in the bulk of the $$ (I hate to bring that up) and carrying our insurance, etc, He needs to focus on the kids so I can focus on work. But he will go in the office, and I need him to be present with the kids - they do better if someone is interacting, or at least observing. And he will, if pressed, do this. I just hate that I have to press him.

What is it about 7 years?? I am just in a complaining mood today. I am glad to be in the office and have a break from all of it - but I do miss my babies.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think it's normal to periodically question who you are married to and why. Any long-term relationship is going to have ups and downs. TBH, I always have the thought in the back of my mind that I might not spend the rest of my life with Sean. As it stands right now, I have been trying to figure out when the kids would be old enough that I could go back to work and still homeschool. I've thought a million times about leaving him. The thing that stops me every time is the idea of having to put the boys in school so that I could work. I also am not ready to completely give up on my family and marriage. It's kind of confusing. I don't want to leave him now but I like to know I can.

Having kids puts a big strain on a marriage relationship. What you guys are describing sounds very typical. Men don't like the loss of their freedom/independence or the loss of the attention of their wives. I think to a large extent it's a biological thing that they sort of cant' help. Historically, men didn't stay around much to help care for children. They were off hunting or fighting. They are not aware of the underlying causes of those feelings. That doesn't make it excusable today. Just a possible explanation.

Mothers historically had other women and children of various ages to help them care for all the young children and didn't need to rely on men for that as much. With our nuclear families that have broken the close knit extended family, we are left on our own to deal with the stresses of taking care of young children. I don't think there's any way to get that kind of support system back. It's time for men to start realizing that they are it now but it will take a lot of time and learning on their part.

I don't know that I have any good advice. The only thing I can think of is to be open and honest about your feelings with your dhes. Don't necessarily tell them that you are thinking of an end point. Tell them how you feel right now about the situation. I really don't know if that will help. I've always done that and it hasn't gotten me very far with Sean. He will do just about anything I ask him, like leave me alone to take a nap or go out or whatever, but only if I ask. Otherwise, I am always the default childcare person.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I also hate the idea of staying together for the kids.


I am conflicted about this. I do think that, for the most part, parents should stay together for the kids. Maybe it's because I come from a divorced family but I think that should be the absolute last resort. My mom has told me several times that she wishes she hadn't gotten divorced now that she's experienced the long term effects of it on us kids and she's the one who instigated the divorce. That was back when it was still kind of new and women, especially, were being told they could have everything and didn't have to stay in an unhappy marriage. All the "experts" said the kids would be fine but no one really knew and it turned out kids of divorced families were not fine.

I think people take it too lightly. Ideally, the adults would find a way to work things out so that they could be happy again. They should do everything humanly possible to make that happen. They usually do not. The parents chose to marry each other. The parents chose to bring children into that union. Now it's the parents responsibility to keep that family together for the innocent children who had/have no choice at all costs. I think we need to do more as a society and community to help couples work through things so they can stay together and be happy. Right now the default answer is to just get divorced.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ITA divorce shoudl be a last resort - I am coming from the place of DH's parents chose to stay together, not actually work on anything, but just stayed in the same house rather than separate, and I think they would have both been happier separated, and possibly with different spouses - that kind of unhappiness permeates a home. Not to mention, the longer they live together, the less they like each other, and the less hard they try to spare feelings - There is a lot of bitterness, anger, and disrespect in that house. That sort of "marriage" is a poor example for kids, and grandkids in this case.

Both of my parents were the children of divorce. In my mom's case, her bio dad was a loser, and she was raised with her half and step siblings by her stepdad, who really stepped up and was a great father. (who was my grandma's 3rd husband) My dad's mom married 2x. I think her first marriage was doomed from the start, really, and there is still a lot bitterness between them (well, as much as there can be when she is passed away, but still). As a result, my parents try very hard to remain committed and have a good relationship, and that has been a wonderful example, to me, growing up of how marriage *should* work. It's not perfect, but it is real, and good.

Divorce can be the best answer I think - but only if you truly can't make it work, or are unwilling to do so. Staying together is best if you are willing to work at it, and be honest.

When my MIL brought up the idea of DH and I divorcing (over $$ issues) - 1) we were and are fine 2) we do still love each other and 3) divorce would exacerbate, not solve such issues. That's the big thing with divorce to me, is what would it change or solve? in most cases it only makes it worse.


----------



## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

I am conflicted about this. I do think that, for the most part, parents should stay together for the kids. Maybe it's because I come from a divorced family but I think that should be the absolute last resort. My mom has told me several times that she wishes she hadn't gotten divorced now that she's experienced the long term effects of it on us kids and she's the one who instigated the divorce. That was back when it was still kind of new and women, especially, were being told they could have everything and didn't have to stay in an unhappy marriage. All the "experts" said the kids would be fine but no one really knew and it turned out kids of divorced families were not fine.


> Now it's the parents responsibility to keep that family together for the innocent children who had/have no choice at all costs. I think we need to do more as a society and community to help couples work through things so they can stay together and be happy. Right now the default answer is to just get divorced.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> ITA divorce shoudl be a last resort - I am coming from the place of DH's parents chose to stay together, not actually work on anything, but just stayed in the same house rather than separate, and I think they would have both been happier separated, and possibly with different spouses - that kind of unhappiness permeates a home. Not to mention, the longer they live together, the less they like each other, and the less hard they try to spare feelings - There is a lot of bitterness, anger, and disrespect in that house. That sort of "marriage" is a poor example for kids, and grandkids in this case.


MW-- I have to disagree. I have two sides of the story-- my parents divorced when I was 8. I remember having a conversation with my father when I was in high school, we were fighting, and he said something to the effect of "I realize you haven't gotten over the fact that your mother and I divorced... etc etc etc" I laughed in his face, and asked him if he even remembered what it was like living with the two of them, and said that it was a relief when they finally divorced. And I still feel that way. Some people are not meant to be together, and you damage the children more by staying together. I really have a hard time finding any merit of staying together just for the kids. DH's parents did that. He's way more scarred than I am, and for years and years took it as fact that couples could only be happy for a few years, and then inevitably would fall out of love and spend the rest of their marriage just cohabitating and barely interacting unless forced. My mother pulled me aside one of the first times that Rob spent time with me at my mother and step fathers house, because she had noticed him reacting very weirdly to them being affectionate. He grew up in a home with such a terrible marriage that it was a completely foreign concept to him to see a husband and wife hug or kiss, or even talk together while making dinner. It took several years to convince him that marriage did not need to be like that. The "kids" (aged 22-37 now) still make jokes if they ever happen to catch the parents giving a quick hug or something-- because to them it's not normal behavior, it's a very weird occurance. That's sad. I think it can be very damaging to see your parents/a marriage that is so unhealthy.

Now that's not to say that people should throw divorce around as 'no big deal'. It -is- a big deal. But I hate hearing people talk about staying together for the kids, or because the kids have no choice. But conversely-- they don't have the choice to say "no, I don't want to be in this unhappy home" either. They just have to live with the hostility, and the anger and lack of love.

/end rant!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

Divorce...yeah it's not an easy answer to a tough problem. I think it makes the problem so much worse. And I'm with you, MW. I couldn't leave him now no matter what b/c there is NO WAY I'd put both my kids in full time daycare/school and go to work FT.

It was the way he said it. The way he said "open a daycare", kind of like -- get your fix that way. It made me so mad. Like I'm silly, or my wanting to adopt is silly. I mean, I get that adoption isn't for everyone, but we both agreed the traumatic part for me is the pregnancy.

I get the sense he's "over it" -- like you're saying, mw. He is over losing his freedom/independence and he has definitely lost attention from me. The thing is I have no sympathy, like I was saying. I kind of feel like saying "get over it, buddy," but that isn't going to help anyone or anything.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think men, especially, can be very selfish when it comes to family and kids. Again, I don't think they really do it on purpose or are even aware of it. They just aren't as focused on kids the way women are, in general.

And, yeah, I agree that there are times when divorce is the best option for everyone but I really do think that it doesn't have to be for most if everyone would just try a little harder and get over their selfishness. It's a complicated issue. But, really, I don't see much difference in kids being in a home with unhappy married parents and kids having to deal with the unhappiness of divorce and all that entails. Whether a couple stays together unhappily or gets divorced, it still sends the message that people can't be happy together for very long. I've been a single parent, too, so I know from experience that it's not easier or better than trying to make a marriage work for the kids' sake.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I see a big difference - because one way or another, the marriage is a model for the kids as to how a relationship works - modeling a rotten relationship teaches nothing. (other than stay the heck away from rotten relationships) But if the parents, separately, find happiness elsewhere, and say, remarry and can raise the kids in separate, happier homes? I think that is not a bad thing - and possibly better. DH's grandmother married twice, 2 boys from her first marriage and 2 boys from the second. DH's dad is from the first, but all the boys were raised and took the name of the second husband. They don't have the best relationship either, TBH. But we've visited his bio grandpa (that's the one in Hubert we will see in July) who also remarried and had more kids. Their relationship is a beautiful thing, and even amongt his wife's serious illness, you can see they happiness and love in the household. I think DH's dad would have maybe turned out a bit differently as a husband and father had he grown up with that sort of marriage as a model. (FWIW - FIL is a fantastic grandpa. but he was disconnected as a father - partly because of his stepdad I think, and partly because MIL pushed him away from DH - part of that whole bitterness and anger thing - further evidence to my mind that staying together can be worse for the kids and splitting up)

i guess, all that to say, there isn't a one size fits all answer. We can only draw from our experience and those around us to make the best choices we can.

I am so tired. and I am tired of being tired.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Divorce to me is such a foreign concept.

Being Catholic, I believe if I ever legally divorced I would still be *married* in the eyes of God so I would never re-marry or even date. I could if DH actually died, but I really don't think I would ever would get married again.

Before I got married I already knew all this so it was a very heavy decision to me to get married (especially at such a young age). I remember waking up the day after I got married and I was just like "wow, I am MARRIED. Forever. AAAUUUGGHHHH"







For a few years I actually had dreams where I would find myself married to some random person and freak out because I was stuck forever and thinking "there has GOT to be a loophole to this situation!!" and wake up relieved to find I was married to DH.

Personally I am GLAD I am Catholic and had to think so long and hard before I got married. It is a very big decision and I don't think people take it very seriously anymore. I have actually heard some of my siblings friends say "this is a good first marriage" or "I got married young so I can remarry again"







The people I am thinking of are on at least their second marriage. My SIL ex-husband (they have twin boys) was cheating on her and married the girl he was cheating with. Then they had a little boy and the new wife just left to NJ with him.........like, WTH? It's so sad to think that this is the society we live in and this is what marriage and family has come down to.

I came from a very happy home. Obviously no marriage is perfect, but my parents never really argued and there was no addictions or anything. So I really can't add to the whole "stay together for the kids or get divorced" but my instincts tell me that it depends heavily on the individuals. If DH and I fell out of love, but there were no addiction problems and we didn't argue, I would try my hardest to stay together for the kids. Going from home to home is really hard on kids I think.

Blah - being married is hard!

In other news, my kids are KICKING MY BUTT!!!!!!!! I am so in survival mode right now. Having two toddlers and a small kid is soooooooo much harder than having a kid, a toddler, and a baby.............add to that K is starting the pre-teen drama and mood swings. Yikes.

I am so mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausted.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I am so tired. and I am tired of being tired.


Yes, yes, yes YES! I am so tired and am sooooo tired of being tired!!!!

I do feel like *most* men are more disconnected than women when it comes to kids. I don't think they realize how much it kills our sex drive when we are so exhausted (and/or breastfeeding!!! dear lord!) Most of the time I just do it for him, but he realizes it has to be convenient for me at least. I am sure he wishes I was more into it, and/or initiated sometimes........but hey, I wish we did it once a month!!! LOL

I agree akind1 - I think how or when to end a marriage is very individualized. 
Also though, most of the time, second marriages also end in divorce. So getting a divorce and then re-marrying doesn't necessarily mean you are going to model a good marriage to your kids either.........ugh.

Can I go back and just be single?!?!?!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, no, obv not (Hello both my grandmas! one married 3 times, the other married twice and divorced twice, although I am not sure why she divorced the 2nd husband - they loved each other until they died - separately - but still) but I do agree, sometimes two people just aren't right for each other. My only thought, if I were to leave, I better have a really, really, good reason, and be leaving whatever our situation is, to go into a better one. Otherwise, you might as well work with what you've got.

I know DH and I are fine, and so much of what I am feeling is coming from a hormonal place (gah. i never used toPMS so hard - or whatever this is) and it makes it even harder for me to deal with, because I hate being emotional, and I hate being this way for no logical reason. I can't help I was raised by Spock (LOL, not really, but I really try to be logical). I think I need ice cream tonight.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think too about what life will be like for me and DH after the kids are grown. Are we going to even enjoy each others company then, or will all these years of disagreement and disinterest have built up resentment that is too much to get past? We say we want to travel, and have time for each other, but the way he acts I don't really want to spend much time with him NOW. When I think of having endless time with him...honestly I get aggravated.

Siggghhh.

I hope it's a phase and we can either move past it, get thru it, grow from it -- and whatever happens, be happy with the outcome. I don't think it's fair to stay together if we are both unhappy, just for the kids. Especially if they are grown. I don't think it's taking the union of marriage lightly, but we are only legally married b/c we aren't catholic. Not to say I don't value marriage and what it is or what it means, but emotions aside, it's a contract. Sounds heartless. I know.

If we are going to get thru this, we both need to TRY. And sometimes I feel like he doesn't want to try, he just wants things to go back the way they were.

I don't though, not necessarily. I love these kids and I love being a SAHM. I love that his work allows me to do what I do. I love all of that. I just wish it didn't all come at the cost of him being upset or angry or both.

Finn is trying so hard to crawl! It's amazing to watch (but frustrating for him). From sitting he can *almost* get to hands and knees, and he reaches and pulls and twists and tries -- but man, it's so cool. He's the best!

I was wearing him in the Boba around town today getting lunch and coffee, and I got so many compliments. I love that Boba. I'm so glad I have it. I'm thinking of selling my Storch. What price do you think would be fair but not too cheap? I was thinking like $40-$50? Is that too high for a used wrap? I have no idea.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I agree that a big part of the problem is that people take marriage too lightly. They don't really think or talk about what it means to be married and have kids. But it's also kind of easy to talk about all of that and have a vision of what it will be before you do it. It can end up being very different once you are in it. And, the longer two people are together, the more different it can become because people do change.

I think things can be hard in the middle when the kids are young and everything is so demanding but get better as the kids get older. Hopefully, a couple can find their way back to each other once the kids are grown. I don't see much point in staying married after that if everyone is still unhappy.

Wraps are pretty expensive but I don't know what's a reasonable price for a used one. Maybe look on a few sites to see how much others are going for.

I've been trying to figure out how much to price my woolies and diapers for. I listed a bunch for sale but nothing has sold. I don't know if my prices are too high or what.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I hope it's a phase and we can either move past it, get thru it, grow from it -- and whatever happens, be happy with the outcome. I don't think it's fair to stay together if we are both unhappy, *just for the kids. Especially if they are grown.* I don't think it's taking the union of marriage lightly, but we are only legally married b/c we aren't catholic. Not to say I don't value marriage and what it is or what it means, but emotions aside, it's a contract. Sounds heartless. I know.
> 
> ...


When I say I would stay together, even if I was unhappy, for the kids I mean only when they are young. I'm not sure at what teenage stage I would feel comfortable with it.

From what I have seen second hand, it is REALLY hard on young kids to go from house to house. It has to be confusing to have different rules, and different expectations. Plus, on a selfish level, I wouldn't want any other woman that DH would get with to raise them in any aspect. Selfish, I know.

Noooooow, if DH were abusive and/or an alcoholic or something of that nature then I think that is something where it is definitely worth any other obstacles to just get out.

Marriage is just a legal contract........I totally get why people get divorced. I am just glad that I am Catholic so it brings the other aspect into it that the civic law doesn't have. Only because I have the personality where I don't know if I would actually *get* a divorce, but I would think about it alot. That "what if" would always be in the back of my mind driving me crazy! LOL

I think used wraps (if they are in good condition) can go for a decent amount. It is almost impossible to get them cheaper, so even the 10 or 15 bucks off a new one people like.

Plus, you can always ask for that much and then go lower if you don't get any interest.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Abuse issues or alcoholism/drug abuse are obviously game changers in my book. But short of that? There's not really anything that DH could do or not do to make me want to get divorced. We were actually talking about this the other night. Watching the emotional pain he experiences being away from the big kids so much is awful. There's no way I could put him through that with DD or likewise imagine not seeing DD every day. Or not spending every holiday with her. That is unfathomable to me. And DD ADORES DH. There's no way I could keep her from him. Just won't happen.

I'm a product of divorce. My father is an alcoholic and had started using cocaine. It wasn't a healthy situation to keep us in so my mom left. They are still friends, it just wasn't a good idea for us to be around him on a daily basis. He still has issues with alcohol but isn't using drugs, at least to my knowledge.

I think if you are in a relationship that is having a rough spot, and you recognize that and can see where there are problems, you should take some efforts to make things work. I know I struggle with that. I will do ANYTHING for the kids regardless of how tired I am. But if DH asks me to do something? Eh, I usually find a lot of excuses. I'm working on that. It's hard. Making a marriage work is tough! But like Annie, as a Catholic, divorce is not an option.

I got 3 used GroVia dipes yesterday off craigslist. A coworker's wife was selling them so that was super convienent! I'm excited to try them. I also got a Wrapsody Bali Breeze woven wrap used from a lady here in town. It's lovely! Just to give you an idea of pricing, it's normally $75 new and she charged me $30. I've done a front carry w/DD and attempted a back carry but she was a little too squirmy. Will need to try again.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The reason I say that I think the adults should do everything they can to overcome their issues and stay together for the kids is because most reasons I hear for divorce are really so trivial. Falling out of love is a big one. Of course you aren't going to have that exciting love that you had when you were first together. A lot of that physiological and driven by the biological need to procreate. That's going to wear off after a while. Then you have to find other reasons to love each other and stay together.

There are dealbreakers. Violence/abuse is the only one that's a definite one for me. Substance abuse depends on whether or not the person is trying to stop. You may have to separate for a while in such a situation but, hopefully, things can come back together. Cheating is a bigger one for me than substance abuse. I don't think it's always an unforgivable offense but I don't know if I could ever get over it and trust the other person again.

I think one of the best things any individual can do to keep a marriage together is take care of the other person without any expectation of reciprocity. Like Annie said, if I do for my kids like that, I should also do for my husband like that. It is harder to do for another adult, though, and I definitely struggle with that.

I think I've decided that I'm definitely going to stay with my mom for a while. I'm depressed and can't be by myself right now. It's just a matter of getting myself moving and getting everything organized and packed, which is really hard to do when all I want to do is curl up in a ball. Trying to figure out what to pack for all of us for 6 weeks is very overwhelming, especially at this time of year when the weather can sometimes be hot and sometimes be cold. I feel like I need to pack every article of clothing we have, which is unrealistic.

I also made an appointment to possibly get some medication. I can't do acupuncture anymore so medication is my only option.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

1st - Carrie - what color is your storch and how long? for that price I will buy it from you - Storchs are great toddler wraps and pretty indestructible. (ya'll can see where my priorities are!)

DH and I got to talk a bit yesterday and DTD. gah. I am not doing that on the floor anymore! so sore today. Need Norah to have her own bed - at least for a little while, so we can have the bed back!!! between those 2 things, I think we are in a better place, and I don't feel as much as an emotional wreck.

I think I could move past cheating. Depending on the offense - like, were you stupid and slipped up once? I can get over that. Long term affair that was both emotional and physical? IDK - that would be much, much, harder. physical, emotional, drug and substance - I don't need to life with that or have our kids subject to it. deal breaker.

MW - I know the drive sucks. and being with your mom might be tough - but I hope that going there helps lift you out of the funk. You can see Sean and visit with friends. Who knows, it might even be good for Ryan to be on his own for a bit, though Dylan will miss him 

Also - if the meds help, take them. Kids need a healthy you. Mentally and otherwise.

Annie - hooray on the craigslist finds! I am not doing CL anymore, I use a local FB swap page. Less trolls and scams. CL used to be so awesome!

Carrie - do the two of you have any mutual interests? DH and bonded over WoW for a while (for me, it was an "if I can't beat 'em, join 'em" sort of thing) we both love shopping, natural stuff, etc. Yours likes to work out, is he interested in jogging/running with you?

Oh, and I love wearing Norah or Gabe in public - mostly such great comments! makes my day


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

It's so funny. When I was cleaning up yesterday and then out walking with the kids I was thinking. If I spent anywhere near as much time/effort on my relationship with DH that I do on trying to talk to and communicate with my 3 year old, maybe things would be better. I'll research and techniques and dig deep to find patience and respect and have complete and total unconditional love - sure I get angry but I make sure N knows I still love her even when I get mad. I need to find it in my heart to try this with my marriage. And then I come here and read two posts saying almost the same thing. Nice!

MW - I fully agree with what you said about finding other reasons to love each other and stay together.

In our most recent talks, I've been bringing up that we need to get back to doing things for each other w/o expecting a thank you or a medal. I'm sick of him announcing that he did XY or Z b/c he wants me to thank him. I don't walk around announcing everything I did so he can thank me. I'm just tired of it.

The other night he was so grouchy and banging things around b/c he didn't get a chance to work out. I was like listen, knock it off. I don't know what you want but you have to stop this attitude. He said he was mad b/c he took too long out shopping with Nora, and mad b/c Nora's party at school went on too long and he didn't get to work out. I was livid! Both things are for your DAUGHTER. Get OVER IT. Be happy she had a fun party, be glad you took her shopping and got to hang out with her.









Regardless I said I was sorry he didn't get to do what he wanted to do. It sucks that some times our needs come last or aren't met at all. I try to feel for him b/c I do in some ways get what he's saying (but I think I deal with it better b/c I have to).

But then he wanted me to thank him for doing the dishes. What? No no. The dishes are part of living here and being in this family. I'll thank him for that but I won't say thanks for doing dishes.

DH and I have a ton in common. Just right now I'm having trouble seeing it.

He bought a groupon to drive a Ferrari Scuderia racing car on a real track, I think 3 laps. Normally it's a couple hundred dollars, but this was a good deal - it was only $99. He told me about it all excited and I was like, omg that is awesome! I said I wanted to go watch -- but part of me is really jealous b/c he bought it w/o even asking me if I'd like to do it. I would SO love to do it. I feel like he doesn't even think about me sometimes.

((hugs)) Mw about how you're feeling. I'm glad you're doing something about it regardless. I can't imagine packing to be away for that long. I'd probably pack basics and plan to shop while I'm there.

Lemme get back to you on the wrap. I'm not sure the size and if I can get more for it, I'll try!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

See, Carrie, being upset about the party taking too long is the kind of selfishness that fathers have that I was talking about. I don't think it's fair to hate them for it. I mean, I'm not saying that to bash men or anything like that. I think they just don't realize what they are doing when they say or do stuff like that. I don't think it occurs to them to think in terms of having the privilege of doing something with this precious child that makes her happy (which is the most wonderful gift anyone can get). I think mother's have those thoughts, too. I'm sure I have daily thoughts about how I wish I could just sit and knit all day long rather than taking care of the kids. That's not quite the same thing because that's work as opposed to fun but it's the same feeling of wanting time to myself and not having to give it to anyone else.

I'd be upset about the car thing, too. That would be like Sean getting some great deal on SCUBA diving but only for himself. I would be very angry about that. But, the thing to do is remain calm and tell him how you feel about it and why rather than getting angry and yelling or not speaking or whatever. Not quite on the same level but I went through something like that with Sean after he came home from his first deployment. He'd stop at the store while he was out and pick himself up a treat and bring it home but not have anything for the rest of us. Ryan and I both felt hurt that Sean didn't think to get something for us. It wasn't that big of a deal to me but it was to Ryan, who was 14 at the time. Once I presented it to Sean that way he got it and was much better at thinking about us.

Sean is actually really good about being home and available. That's one thing that I could not abide, having my husband always going out doing his own thing and leaving me alone with the kids. Not that yours is doing that, Carrie, but I've known some women in those kinds of relationships. I knew one woman who had to take all of her kids to store with her every time she went even when your husband was home because he refused to take care of them. That wasn't his job even though she WOH, too.

I think a big part of the problem with Sean and I is that we don't have anything in common anymore. We've been apart so much that we've developed our own separate interests that don't involve the other at all. We used to have exercise in common, being in the outdoors enjoying things like hiking. In Hawaii we liked to go to the beach and kayak and hike to the waterfalls. Having more kids and no one around to watch them has taken that away from me. I've had to find interests that I can do at home with the babies and kids. Plus, the fact that there is nothing like that to do around here that's close and driving an hour or more to do anything every week with a little baby and car sick kid is just not going to happen. Sean still exercises every day. He has to for his job. I'm just not into that so much anymore.

We disagree on politics and religion and the environment and how to eat and live healthily. It's really hard to find anything to talk about that we don't end up arguing about. Even the kids. Obviously, we have them in common and we both love them very much but we disagree a lot on how to handle situations with them. I think if we weren't separated so much we wouldn't be so distant. Unfortunately, Sean hasn't been home long enough for us to get back to each other yet.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I think daddies just have a different experience with kids. I know that my DH and my BIL don't have much patience to let kids do an activity until they are done. I don't think it's the most fun thing in the world but I have no problem sitting at the park for hours while the kids play. As long as everyone is happy and we don't have another activity to go to, I see no reason in rushing off to do something else. My DH loses interest in about 20 mins. When we go to the science museum, he has to take breaks to get coffee, check his phone, go to the bathroom, etc. I can sit and watch them do the activities or do the activities with them the whole time.









MW, I think it's great that you've decided to consider the idea of medication. I think that using medication to help a chemical imbalance for a short time is exactly what it's there for. And being up here will help your mood as well, hopefully. I don't know if I could stay with my mom that long. When I stayed with her for a week, it was getting old. But if it was to be near DH, I could probably suck it up. As far as clothes, we have some cooler days but it's going to be mostly warm from here on out. I would pack two pairs of pants, two long sleeve shirts and then maybe 3-4 pairs of shorts and 3-4 short sleeve shirts for E & K. Also remember there are plenty of Old Navys, Targets, etc up near your mom so if you need to pick up something for weird weather, you'll be fine. ANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD, you get to see ME!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I know, Annie. I was thinking that we'd be able to get together. And, Sean and I could have a date with my mom to babysit. Maybe we could even get a whole night at his hotel with just Dylan.














The nice thing about being at my mom's is that it's close enough that I can come home early if things aren't working out. Mainly, I feel like I need to not be alone right now with the depression. I'm not so depressed that I'm dangerous but I've had a few nights when I've been pretty immobile by myself, if that makes any sense. Unfortunately, I'm at the point that the doctors say I need to be on antidepressants forever. No short term meds treatment. Of course, I can always choose whether or not to follow their advice but it's not an issue of just taking meds for a short while to get over a hump.

Sean recommended the same thing wrt what to pack.

Sean and I are the opposite with the interest in doing kid things. Well, make that play/outdoor kid things. He's not any better than me when the boys want to browse TRU for an hour.







I get bored very quickly at the park or a museum with the kids. I'm better if I'm with someone else I can talk to but don't last long by myself.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

We always try to do outings with people (museums and zoos and stuff) more fun for everybody! but sometimes it's not possible and we go it alone anyway.

Watching a friend's baby today, with a cast on her leg. would you believe I can still wrap her? the cast is done in such a way that her legs still froggy position really well. Thank God, because especially with the cast, she's a chunk!

Also, had a babywearing playdate at my house, the kids had a blast, got soooo dirty, but wore them out. Hooray!

Man, I am tired now, but at least the mama friend whose baby I am watching is buying dinner


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We go bowling and to the park with other homeschoolers. That's usually pretty good because I have other homeschooling moms to talk to. But, recently I've been getting a weird vibe from one of them. I thought we were becoming good friends but she suddenly stopped texting and emailing me to do things. The last two times I saw her at homeschool group stuff she has talked over me and contradicted just about everything I say in what sounds like a snide way to me. I think maybe she has some issues with the fact that I unschool while she's more rigid with her homeschooling. I don't have a problem with what she does with her kids but I do talk about how and why I unschool. I kind of wonder if she's taken it as some sort of criticism or judgment of her.

For example, I was contacted by another homeschooler who wants to start unschooling her youngest child. I invited her to bowling with our group so she could meet other homeschoolers in the area and we could talk about unschooling. The only reason I talked so much about unschooling that time was because that was the main reason for this other person coming. This other person kept interjecting herself into our conversation to make points about how not everyone has to do things that way and how and why she does things the way she does with her kids. She made some comment about NFL/AP and how there are extreme ends to the discipline issue and looked right at me and said something like, "with some people being very permissive." IDK I got the feeling she was trying to insult me.

Because of that I haven't been motivated to go to the groups very often lately. There are only 3 of us who are really active, go to almost everything every week, and she is one of them.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> We go bowling and to the park with other homeschoolers. That's usually pretty good because I have other homeschooling moms to talk to. But, recently I've been getting a weird vibe from one of them. I thought we were becoming good friends but she suddenly stopped texting and emailing me to do things. The last two times I saw her at homeschool group stuff she has talked over me and contradicted just about everything I say in what sounds like a snide way to me. I think maybe she has some issues with the fact that I unschool while she's more rigid with her homeschooling. I don't have a problem with what she does with her kids but I do talk about how and why I unschool. I kind of wonder if she's taken it as some sort of criticism or judgment of her.
> For example, I was contacted by another homeschooler who wants to start unschooling her youngest child. I invited her to bowling with our group so she could meet other homeschoolers in the area and we could talk about unschooling. The only reason I talked so much about unschooling that time was because that was the main reason for this other person coming. *This other person kept interjecting herself into our conversation to make points about how not everyone has to do things that way and how and why she does things the way she does with her kids. She made some comment about NFL/AP and how there are extreme ends to the discipline issue and looked right at me and said something like, "with some people being very permissive." IDK I got the feeling she was trying to insult me.*
> Because of that I haven't been motivated to go to the groups very often lately. There are only 3 of us who are really active, go to almost everything every week, and she is one of them.


Yeah - from what you say there I think she has a problem with you. Weird how some people get that way. There are so many different personalities out there that one form of parenting is never going to completely work for everyone. I don't get why people take such offense at other people's parenting styles......

I am also one of those people who get very disinterested very quickly at a park or the zoo (we have been to our zoo like 50 times, it is basically a hike at this point! LOL) or something like that.

HOWEVER - I think I will be more able to hang out and just have fun and let the kids have fun once all my kids are about 2 1/2 +. Little ones are so much energy when you are out and about that I think I get tired. I mean, when I am at the park I can't really just run around and have fun OR sit on the bench and relax - I have to make sure A doesn't run off into the woods. Later this summer I am sure she will want to go up ladders and such and I will have to help her up and go up with her again and again (did you all read about riding down the slides with babies????). Stuff like that makes me bored and tired.

I really hope I can hold off on getting pregnant for a long time or forever. I am looking forward to just having fun with the kiddo's! Not that I would be sad or mad if I got pregnant......I would just rather not. I almost feel like I am over the hump of having kids.....like another one wouldn't even be any harder!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Little ones are so much energy when you are out and about that I think I get tired. I mean, when I am at the park I can't really just run around and have fun OR sit on the bench and relax


That's how I feel right now. Dylan isn't walking on his own now but he's not content sitting still. I can't put him down on the ground because he puts everything in his mouth. So, I have to either be constantly moving around with him or sitting with a fussing, squirming baby. Exhausting! If I could sit and knit while the boys played, I could probably hang out for quite a while.

I didn't read the article about sliding down slides with babies. I've never done that. I saw the headline so I assume it was something about babies getting injured from that.

If you commit to NFP, you don't ever have to be pg again, right?

That's not something I need to worry about at all still. For one, AF still hasn't returned and my CF has actually gotten less fertile looking. Plus, Sean showed absolutely no interest in dtd the entire time he was home. He has gotten that way more and more with each deployment. I'm beginning to wonder if it's some sort of PTSD thing. Or maybe he's just getting old and tired and has Low T.







Frankly, I am sort of glad about it because I'm really not in the mood and don't have the energy. It's kind of funny because I'm not worried at all that he's not attracted to me anymore like I imagine many women would be. I'm relieved that he's not bothering me.


----------



## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 
If you commit to NFP, you don't ever have to be pg again, right?


> That's not something I need to worry about at all still. For one, AF still hasn't returned and my CF has actually gotten less fertile looking. Plus, Sean showed absolutely no interest in dtd the entire time he was home. He has gotten that way more and more with each deployment. I'm beginning to wonder if it's some sort of PTSD thing. Or maybe he's just getting old and tired and has Low T.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is just with my crazy cycles it is hard to do NFP..........blah, obviously I know I can DO it, it's just I have a looooooot of fertile years ahead of me.

I am sure I don't have to tell you since you know your body so well, but just be careful! I get that you are heading into less fertile years, but I know of at least 3 ladies at my church who had a "oops" baby at 43+ (one even at like 46!!) and I know for a fact that they were oops babies and fertility was not helped in any way. I am assuming they were trying to chart, but their cycles started going nuts. At least I will have practice with that when I get to that age! LOL

OMG - I wish my husband had low T! I have had evil thoughts of giving him something that lowers libido............he would definitely kill me though


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, yeah. I meant I don't have to worry about it right now mainly because Sean isn't home and when he's been home he's shown absolutely no interest in dtd. We haven't dtd since I got pg with Dylan. That's 18 months and counting. Of course, a year of that time doesn't really count since Sean was in Afghanistan. Once AF returns or I start getting fertile CF and we actually dtd, we'll take precautions. We'll probably use condoms because Sean is, obviously, not very good at withdrawal.









Charting/NFP is especially useful for irregular cycles. I imagine it's hard being Catholic, though, because you are supposed to abstain, right? You can't use a barrier method or withdrawal or even other means of being intimate (unless you're not a very good Catholic like Sean). I guess you might get a week right after AF and then about 2 weeks after O but might have to abstain for a looong time in between.

I am having a really hard time with Kellen right now. He is a one man wrecking crew, destroying just about everything he touches. The most recent thing is today he actually knocked down the maple tree in our backyard. I've been trying to get a tree growing back there for something like 3 years. This was our third tree and the only one that survived and was growing and he just broke it off right at the base of the trunk.

He said he was trying to fix it. Sean planted it crooked (because he doesn't pay attention to details like that and won't listen to me when I try to advise him) and then stuck in a metal post to tie the tree to so that it would stand straight. The ties broke off so he just wrapped the tree around the pole but the tree kept popping off. Of course, that wouldn't help it from growing crooked anyway since he planted it that way. Kellen was trying to wrap it back around the pole and it broke. I got so angry because I had told him numerous times not to touch the tree. I have told him I don't know how many times to come get me for stuff like that. I could tell he felt really bad but I couldn't stop myself from chastising him. Now I fell really bad about that as well. I don't know how to get this kid to understand not to do things like that.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

K is 8? Maybe another 10 years or so. It is so hard to not be mad when really a kid is not trying to do anything deliberately harmful. He had no intention of breaking the tree, right? Can he help plant a new one?

IDK how to fix it, because if alot of the destructiveness is not really intentional (like the tree) - it's not like he can go without touching stuff. I know I have those days where it seems I screw up or break everything I lay hands on.

Dude, that is a long time with no DTD. I can't imagine. I have Catholic friends and I can't say whether they use barrier methods or not. I do know they are NFP all the way - no hormones - and definitely plan their families.

I am on day 49 of this cycle. ugh. On one hand, I really could do without AF right now, I am not looking forward to it. on the other, I am ready for this cycle to be done.

Annie, I have heard those babies called "the Change babies" before . . . one of the reasons why DH is getting snipped when we are done.

I have slid down slides with babies - but then, like anything, I think you just need to be careful and not reckless. I have only done it once with DD and I don't think she cared much for it at the time.

DS is still so little, that unless we are at the park with good friends whose littles he will follow (he is such a follower), I have to do stuff with him.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

No, Kat, Kellen is only 4! It was a small tree. If he were 8, I'd be much more upset.

I don't think I want to bother planting another one since we'll be moving in about a year. It seems pointless, unless I could get a really big one. I guess it might be worth it to spend a few hundred on a tree that the 4yo can't destroy.









Yeah, he's not purposely being destructive. He's either being curious, just having fun and getting carried away or trying to help with something.

Yeah, that is a long time without dtd. We were afraid to dtd early in my pregnancy because of my miscarriage risk so that was about 3-4 months. Then Sean was gone for about 8 months. He was home for 2 weeks but I was still having problems with my pelvis, SPD. That wasn't actually completely healed until March or April of this year. Then Sean was gone again for another 3+ months. He was home for about a month and then gone again. I'm not one of those people who can just jump back in bed with my husband after he's been essentially absent from my life for a year. It's sort of like living with a stranger when he gets home and I need to reconnect in other ways before I'm comfortable with sex. And, of course, we've been having issues with that so I never felt any kind of connection to him.

I need to get packing today. We actually slept really well last night, two 4 hour stretches between nursing, very little squirming, and not getting up until 9:30. I wish I knew what the difference was so I could reproduce it.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I forget who is older sometimes, K or E (I know the ages generally based on your siggy) - and that makes sense, re: DTD. everyone is different - for me, I feel disconnected when we aren't DTD. and DTD generally fixes that (it's not that I am not still irritated about stupid things, but makes them easier to live with - and easier to talk about solving)

packing. I don't like packing. wish you luck!

Have some fun things planned later this week. Think I need to work on potty training more. I am lazy about it. but at least DS is getting better about tellingme when he poops. Pee . . . .a whole nother story.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I've got a sick baby!







Double ear infection and a sore throat. Poor baby Finn! Send all your get well vibes, ladies! We need them!

His temp got as high as 103.5, I said this cannot be teething. Something is wrong. My gut and mama intuition were right.

Anyway, I'm reading along but my hands are literally tied lately b/w him and Nora. Plus I'm really trying to cut back my computer time. I'm thinking I need to set up a spot out of the way, and keep the computer closed so I'm not always tempted. Right now it's on the table and always on. With a laptop its so easy to just grab it and check every time I pass it. I was thinking if I clear a spot in my room to set it up, I'll have to actually LEAVE the main part of the house and that wouldn't feel right. Also, maybe it'll help me keep my room clean?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Aw, I'm sorry Finn is so sick. I was beginning to wonder from what you were posting on FB if it was something more than teething. I hope he feels better soon.

I know what you mean about the laptop. Mine is always open and on and right next to my spot on the couch. I think periodically about turning it off or putting it somewhere else. The only problem is that almost all of my knitting patterns are on the computer, many online. I don't want to print them all out, one because of the waste of paper and two because then I'd have to find somewhere to put all those papers.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

So sorry Finn is sick! I can't imagine double-ear infection! Yikes!

You know MW, I would get frustrated about the tree thing too but you're right. He didn't do it on purpose. After the four big kids, I've just accepted that anything in the house or car are fair game for getting destroyed. They aren't being destructive, it's just collateral damage from them being kids and exploring. DSD 14 is going through a painting phase. We bought her paints and a portable easel for christmas last year. Our entire house, except for the tiny kitchen and bathroom floors are covered in carpet. You can see where I'm going with this!







She's not painting on the carpet, but stuff happens. I just have to let it go. And honestly, I make mistakes too. I remember a few years ago I had spent the weekend steam-cleaning the carpet. It was all clean and dry and I was sitting on the livingroom floor playing a board game with them. I was also enjoying a glass of red wine. What happened next? You guessed it. Red wine all over the newly cleaned cream colored carpet.









We'll be charting indefinitely. And yes, we're supposed to abstain during fertile times but that's not working right now.







I'd like to get back to doing that but honestly I'm scared of getting pregnant right now. I do NOT want to lose my milk supply before next spring.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> After the four big kids, I've just accepted that anything in the house or car are fair game for getting destroyed. They aren't being destructive, it's just collateral damage from them being kids and exploring.


Yes, I came to accept this a long time ago. I've had 21 years to get used to the unwitting destructiveness of kids. I wish Sean could get that. He gets mad at me when I don't get all worked up over yet another thing that has been destroyed. It's not that I don't care. It's just that, for the most part, I know it's futile to worry about. I don't want to waste my energy on it.

Kat ~ I forgot to ask you. Have your cycles come back? I vaguely remember you mentioning AF showing up a while ago. How many have you had so far? When did you have your first?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks guys. He seems a little better already, and his fever seems to be holding off. He had Motrin at the dr office at 3 and was still cool for bed so I didn't give him any more. Just the abx.







I can't stand to see him in such pain so I'm going to do the abx route instead of homeopathics or garlic oil.

Re: the tree - I'm with Lauri. I wouldn't bother planting another. It's just fodder for him to mess with! It's the age. It's got to be. He will outgrow it.

More and more I'm finding myself opposed to even trying to get them to understand what they're doing wrong. I was talking with Nora on our stroller walk the other day, and explaining to her why I get upset when she doesn't listen. I said, normally, in conversations, when someone asks someone to do something they do it. If I ask Daddy to take out the trash, does he say "No!" and throw a fit? No, he says, yes, sure, and does it. If he asks me to set the table, do I stomp my foot and say "No!". No, I say sure. It's nice. It's the way people behave toward each other when they love and respect one another. She seemed to get it on some level. Now when I ask her nicely to "get down from there" or "please don't climb all over XYZ" she hops down and says, "See, I listened!" (sometimes!)

Idk. It seemed to be a moment. We have lots of moments during our walks.

She's starting to show glimmers of empathy. Once in a while. She's saying sorry when she hurts Finn or me, little things like that. Those things help.

Anyway.

Is anyone else gardening? Nora and I are doing a container garden and we are starting from seeds. I hope some take off! Her strawberry plants are sprouting but nothing else yet. We have at least another week to see if anything happens.

2 weeks til our Disney trip, guys! I'm starting to get really excited!

Oh, Kat - the Storch is a 4.1 in Inka. Are you still interested?


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm always trying to grow something. This time it's humbingbird flowers. They have sprouted in peat pots but now I don't know what to do with them. I can't set them out on the back deck because the weather and wind can be crazy here. I'd put them in a larger pot but I don't have soil. Plus, we are leaving tomorrow. I think I'm going to take them with us and plant them in pots when we get to VA. That way we can bring them home.

Kellen gets empathy. He rarely does anything to hurt anyone else. If he does, he recognizes it right away and I can tell feels bad. He just gets so excited or gets thoughts in his head about doing something and doesn't have the capability to think through whether or not he can really do it.

Ethan has always been gentle. He rarely said no to me when he was younger. He does more now and I know it's because our relationship is strained. We've gotten into this cycle of him saying he won't do things because I'm mean to him and me saying I'd be nicer if he'd help more. I know it's my responsibility to change it but I can't seem to do it. I see red when he gets his attitude. Like at the doctor today. Kellen had to go to the bathroom so I asked Ethan to take him. Ethan said something along the lines of, why should he do anything for me when he never gets what he wants. The thing is that he wants a $60 M rated video game that I'm not willing to buy him. He doesn't get the why's of that.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I have had one AF so far, right when Norah turned 5 months. IDK if this is actually a really long, anovulatory cycle or if my cycles are just going to be 50-60 days long while nursing - they were with Gabe until I started weaning. Other than a bit of cramping, I have no signs of AF arriving or anything else. And a ton of migraines. But a lot of those could be hunger/thirst related.

Carrie . . . The inka is pretty (for stripes! LOL - I am not normally I stripes person) I would love it - how much were you thinking?

Also - sorry Finn is so sick, and that you all aren't sleeping well. If I were closer I would love to help out. It's frustrating sometimes.

My local mama AP group (it's also on FB as a secret group) had so much drama yesterday! I hate mama drama. It makes me want to go hide, especially as I have friends on both sides, and I told one of them in chat, that I am not choosing sides. I see both points, but outside of the drama, all are wonderful people and I don't want to lose IRL friends over this. Argggh

Gabe is young for empathy, but when he does something that hurts someone, he does point to the affected area on theother peson and say " ouch?" - it's a start.

I could not imagine charting until menopause. If we had enough money that I could stay home, I would just keep on having babies, honestly, if DH getting snipped wasn't an option.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, all your Disney talk sent me off planning when I want to take DD. Right now, I'd like to do a trip w/my sister and her family (my nieces are 1 and 2 yrs older than DD) in the Spring of 2015. DD will be almost 4. I think that's a good age to go. But then I started checking out Sesame Place. Have you guys taken Nora there? I think I want to take DD next summer. One of our friends has a second home in Philly so we could stay there. I think she would love it. She thinks Elmo is the funniest thing ever.


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Baby_Cakes, all your Disney talk sent me off planning when I want to take DD. Right now, I'd like to do a trip w/my sister and her family (my nieces are 1 and 2 yrs older than DD) in the Spring of 2015. DD will be almost 4. I think that's a good age to go. But then I started checking out Sesame Place. Have you guys taken Nora there? I think I want to take DD next summer. One of our friends has a second home in Philly so we could stay there. I think she would love it. She thinks Elmo is the funniest thing ever.


We've never taken Nora, not yet -- and it's mostly a water park. I want to wait till Finn is old enough to at least play. Next summer!

We took Nora to Hershey Park when she was 2, that was PERFECT. She loved the kid rides (mostly) and there were enough rides we could go on with her. And the water park part was awesome -- we spent most of our time there!

Had an awful, awful day.







Glad DH is back. And as I was sobbing on the phone to my best friend, my BIL came over completely unasked just b/c he saw my fb status and thought maybe he could help out. So, soo thankful for him these days.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah I think next summer will be good for DD. I'm a little worried about taking DD to Busch Gardens in Sept. But I saw that there are lockers for daily rental so at least I can store the pump and big diaper bag there. I was picturing trying to schlep all that stuff through the park and thinking "No way, man." My Bali Breeze wrap has a pocket in one of the tails so I can store a bottle there and maybe a diaper and wipes. Times that that are when I get super jealous of you nursing mamas. It would be so much easier to go out and about w/DD if I didn't have to always factor in pumping times and keeping clean bottles.

So happy that your BIL came over to help! What a great guy!


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a Medela Freestyle pump, Lauri. It's small and compact and we could carry it with us at the park. There are plenty of places to pump at BG. I really don't mind bringing it for you to use if you are at all interested. LMK.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I have a Medela Freestyle pump, Lauri. It's small and compact and we could carry it with us at the park. There are plenty of places to pump at BG. I really don't mind bringing it for you to use if you are at all interested. LMK.


That would be AWESOME. I have the Medela PISA bag and it's the size of a diaper bag by itself. The Freestyle is rechargeable right? I never have problems finding places to pump, it's just lugging the pump around, ugh. Hate it. When I leave the house in the afternoon, I have DD's diaper bag, the pump bag and my purse. So irritating!


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I want to know, since these big pumps are often geared towards working moms, why don't they make one with a pocket for your laptop? So I am not lugging the PISA (which is a PITA LOL), my laptop, and purse into work? I feel like a beast of burden!

Annie - I wear a messenger style purse/diaperbag combo. It works.

yesterday was a sucky day. DS didn't want to sleep. and screamed in the store. It's days like that I almost understand the desire to hit your children, except I know it would solve nothing and really only cause more problems. But dude, it was rough.

So, I decided to be meatless for 2/3 meals a day. Dinner we eat en famile with my parents too, so I don't want to make a separate meal, or force everyone to go meatless. Yesterday went well, esp since I allow myself fish. I had the salmon sandwhich at Jason's deli for lunch, eggs and cheese for breakfast, and a chicken and broccoli casserole for dinner. So, not bad. I'm trying to drum up a C25K partner locally, once I get the doubles kit for the stroller. I NEED to at least lose 20 lbs. That's my short term goal.

It's hot. 92 degrees on May 2nd is the high.

Srsly, how is everyone?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Lauri - Ok then I'll bring it with! It's rechargeable and the battery lasts a LONG time. That is a LOT to carry. No reason to fuss with all that. You can just use mine.

I'm ready for summer heat. It's gray and rainy here this week, not too warm - mid 60s to 70s. I don't mind the temps but I do mind the gray! But if we want green grass and pretty flowers, I guess it's a necessity.

I feel a bit in shock from yesterday still. I need to just shake it off. I just had some realizations about DD and her behavior and my behavior and how I have next to no support from DH...it's a lot to have on my shoulders. We need to have a conversation, DH and I. So. That is weighing on me. But otherwise, physically/emotionally I'm ok. Just need to clear some air and make some changes, I think.

Hmm, Kat -- how about $50 for the wrap shipped? Sound good? It's a beautiful wrap. I'll miss it mostly b/c it reminds me of my babies' newborn days. I'll never use it again, so I'd much rather sell it to someone who will! LMK.

Hope Alysia is settling in nice w/her mama!

JJ - hope you got better sleep last night!

AFM - school day today and I'm going to try to hit up Whole Foods in the afternoon. It'll guarantee Finn naps at least 30 min on the drive there, and I'll be able to get some things I need/want. It'll be nice to shop and eat with just the boy. He is feeling better, though last night he was still pulling at both his ears and screaming his hurt cry whenever I lay him down. Hopefully with a few more doses of abx, the infection will start to subside. I used the nose frida on him yesterday and man, something is definitely draining out of his sinuses. Thick green mucus with chunks. Poor baby. Times like this I'm thankful to have access to drs and abx. For little things I like homeopathy, but for big things I like the big guns.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie, sounds good to me, PM me here or on FB with your PP address (you have one? some people I know do not) and I will send $$. I think I want to have a wrap conversion RS made, just trying to decide which wrap I want to chop (that sounds vicious!)

Also, no reason you cannot do BOTH things. Abx and garlic oil, homeopathics, etc. I do not think, in this case, one would interfere with the other, and may help speed the healing process. Will he or does he sleep better on an incline?

I hope you are able to have a good, constructive talk with your DH about Nora. it's tough - can MIL or BIL (he sounds awesome, BTW) come watch kids so you and DH can have the time and space to talk? I know it helps me to talk to DH about things away from the stress of it happening, so I can be clear and logical and not as emotional. And sometimes, if it's really bad, I write it out and email him. But that hasn't happened in a long, long time. Thank GOD.

MW: let us know how it's going!

JJ: did you get some starbucks? I hope so!


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ So glad your BIL spontaneously showed up to help you. He sounds like a great guy! Not sure what happened at Target but sometimes it's best to just leave.

IDK how Dylan will ever nap for any time here with the dog and Kellen running around. I just laid him down 5 minutes ago and he's already up. GTG


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't even know how to put what happened at Target into words. It was just a failure on every level! I only went so I could get some calamine for her arm (Oh, in the chaos I forgot to tell you guys - yesterday when she got dressed I saw what looked like a horrible blistery rash on her arm. After freaking out we are fairly sure its bug bites - either spider or ant. Something must have gotten caught up her sleeve, poor baby. Itches.) and a latte. I figured since we were there we could walk and pick up a few things.

She wouldn't stop running off, and she knows that means she goes in the cart. One warning of that and she took off, climbed into the crib on display and started jumping around in it like a maniac. Then she lay down in it all quiet and told me to go away, she'd stay there. I told her she had to get out, went to get her out -- I swear I thought they were going to kick us out of Target.

I don't really care if she's yelling/being her age etc, but she was shouting things at the top of her lungs that were just plain mortifying, and not behaving appropriately/safely for the environment we were in. We headed to leave (b/c I'm soooo with you on that one!) and she started wailing she didn't want to go home, that she hates home. Get her in the car and rolled down all the windows and sunroof (she was sweaty and drippy in meltdown mode) and she started freaking out that she hated wind! She wanted to be sweaty! Oh man. Finn was looking at her like WHAT is your DEAL?!?

Finally she calmed down as we were almost home. She was alright in the backyard at home.

Then we get inside b/c it was getting late and again she started in on the I hate this house, I don't like you Mommy, I want DADDY. I lost it. Of course you want Daddy. He doesn't do discipline, he's the fun one. I just .... I hate that I do all the "work" with the kids but he gets all the benefit of being the awesome one.

I just think, honestly, it was being at Target. She's not like that at Walgreens or Whole Foods. I think Target is just too fun or too overstimulating. Or...i'm just a failure these days. Could be a little of both, tbh.

Reading this back it doesn't seem as bad as it was. It was bad. Hah.

MW - did you bring any white noise? is it an area you could go for a walk? Sometimes the only naps Finn gets are on walks or on car rides.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: what was with kids yesterday? Gabe was screaming his head off in TJ Maxx/Ross's yesterday. Not fun or stimuilating either place, really. I need to start bringing snacks with me everywhere, I think food helps a TON. I finally gave in and wore him in the wrap (note to self, I think silk waves isn't supportive enough for a nearly 30 lb toddler) and he calmed down almost immediately. It was a total Jekyll/Hyde moment.

And yes, sometimes you need to just leave. I hate that, I really do, but it's a fact.

And then bedtime, again with the screaming. Norah nursed well, but the screaming kept waking her up, so DH and I switched off. He calmed down immediately, really fast, but took well over an hour to actually sleep. UGH. And DH said both kids were up super early today. Joy.

Has anything in her diet changed? I wonder if something is up with Gabe's; he has had the squirts two days in a row. Not all day, just at his normal first thing in the morning poop time (how great is it that my kids simeoltaneously poop? :rollseyes and I don't know if I need to examine what he's eating . . .


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> she started in on the I hate this house, I don't like you Mommy, I want DADDY.


I hear something similar to that regularly. I'm told several times a day that I'm mean. I get very angry and resentful that Sean doesn't have to deal with any of that. He gets to leave and can use work as an excuse. I know it's hard to do but the best thing is to not take that sort of thing personally. She says that because it's the only way she knows how to express her frustration or anger or whatever. Remain calm and try to use empathy to express back what she is really feeling/experiencing. That will help her learn to express herself more clearly.

Sean and I got in an argument last night and now I don't know if we are talking.







Tell me if you all think this was unreasonable of me.

I was an hour and a half late leaving so I thought our plan to have dinner with Sean was shot. I managed to get close to where he was by 7:30, though, so we agreed to meet about 20 miles south of where he's staying. Sean called me and said the clutch went out on his Jeep. Luckily, he was right at the corner of the street his hotel is on. So, rather than us meeting, I drove the rest of the way to where he was. In discussing what to do about the Jeep, his idea was for me to drive him to the Metro by my mother's house (a 40 minute drive from where he is) so that he could catch the Metro to the airport to rent a car for the next day. I asked him weren't there any car rental places near Quantico? There have to be with the number of Marines and other people who come there temporarily. Turns out there is a rental car place right across the street from his hotel. Why would he want to drive an extra 50-60 miles to rent a car from a more expensive place when there was a place right across the street? Apparently, because the airport rental place is open 24 hours so he could get a car last night. The place across the street didn't open until 7:30 the next morning so he'd have to wait to get a car.







I told him I thought that was ridiculous. There was no reason he couldn't just call work in the morning, tell them what happened and that he'd be a little late because he had to wait to get a rental car. He said something about all of us going to back to the hotel while he made some calls or tried to figure something out. I said I didn't want to stay there that long. I had already been driving for 6 hours and it was later than I wanted to be still driving. He got all huffy with me and was like, "Fine! I guess you guys can stay here and eat (we were at a restaurant) and I'll just walk back to the hotel and do whatever I have to do."







Again, I said that was ridiculous.

He pulls out his smartphone and starts searching for rental cars. Announces he can't get a rental car from the place across the street until noon as if that's supposed to prove to me that he has to get a car right then from the National Airport way up here near D.C. So, can't he call someone he works with to give him a ride? Um, er, um...no real answer. I asked how he knew he couldn't get any car until noon. I find it hard to believe that the place would have absolutely nothing for him. That's just what he could reserve online. They always have stuff you can get if you walk in. Then he gets and attitude because Kellen, who was sitting next to him, crawled under the table and was messing around. He looked at me as if I was supposed to do something. I was across the table dealing with Ethan and Dylan. I couldn't even reach Kellen. I told Sean he had to do more than just distractedly tell Kellen to stop. Oh, but he's looking for something on his phone and can't possibly do anything else! So then he got all huffy again, shut his phone and said something about figuring something out. If he had to, he'd get up an hour early and run to work as his PT for the day.

I think I was supposed to feel bad about that. Poor Sean having to deal with such hardship. I only felt annoyed because there was no need for that martyrdom crap. Just call the freakin' office first thing in the morning and explain what was happening. What would he have done if I hadn't happened to be here? He would have figured something out without trying to make me feel bad about it. It's not like he's going to get thrown in the brig because his car broke down. He's never been late for or missed a day without permission. I think he's only taken 2 sick days in the last 10 years. But somehow it's my responsibility to make sure he can get to work the next day because his piece of crap that I've been telling him to replace for years finally broke down? WTF?

I called him twice last night and once this morning. He didn't answer any of my calls and hasn't called me. I don't know if that's because he's busy or if he's purposely ignoring me. I don't know what he would be busy doing last night at 10-10:30 pm that he couldn't answer his phone. He wasn't at work then. I'm so over his stupid shit!

After all that talk of divorce, I'm at my mom's now. Maybe I won't go back.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, that would frustrate me too. I don't understand how DH's brain works sometimes. Like he goes out of his way to find a solution to his problem that is the MOST WORK possible for everyone involved. DSS 17 had the prom two weeks ago. He procrastinated on everything so the night before, DH has him out trying to find a corsage for his date. They went to grocery stores (don't even ask me why that was the first place DH thought to go for a corsage) and of course they didn't have any and no florist on duty to make one. DH bought a bouquet of flowers and had DSD 14 researching how to make corsages on youtube. I said "ummm, there are two florists within ten mins of the house. Go there Sat morning and buy a corsage." Like how did that not occur to him?







DH would concoct some crazy plan like your DH did w/going to National and riding the Metro, blah blah. Geez. What a PITA!

On an unrelated note, can I say how excited I am that you are so close to me?!? I'm already trying to figure out when DD and I can get up to see you guys! Is your mom more on the 95 side of NOVA or the 66 side?

DD's sleep has been crap. She's right on the verge of crawling and I think it's just driving her insane. I know it's making me crazy watching her! We have her 9 month WBV on Friday. I'm excited to see how much she weighs now.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, Annie. I asked DH why he had to make it so complicated. My mom said her boyfriend is the same way. He lives in Sterling but insists on taking his car to Leesburg to be inspected even though there is certainly an inspection station in Sterling. So, he takes his car to Leesburg and it doesn't pas. He has to leave his car there and figure out how to catch the bus back to Sterling.









I've been wondering if there's somewhere halfway that we could meet. Then neither one of use would have to make such a long drive. How long does it take to get to Charlottesville from here? Of course, you are certainly welcome to come up here if that's better. My mom is in Vienna right off 66.

DH did actually run into work this morning. He has a rental car now and the Jeep is at a shop right next to the hotel. I'm not sure it's worth it to replace the clutch on that thing. It's old as dirt and falling apart. I've been telling him for a while now that he needs to get a safer, more kid-friendly vehicle that I can drive if needed. We don't know yet what needs to be done. He says he'll find out tomorrow.

He also said he wasn't ignoring me. I happened to call last night while he was getting the Jeep to the garage and his phone doesn't alert him to missed calls.

Ryan's FB update is that he's bored. He said VA is better than NC. Maybe he's missing us a little.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

It's about 2-2.5 hrs from Charlottesville depending on traffic. We could always meet in Gainsville but I'm always looking for an excuse to get to IKEA in Woodbridge down near Sean. Probably wouldn't be able to do it until closer to the end of the month. Maybe the 25th? I have off that day and it's not a kid weekend so I wouldn't need to be back right at 5:30 PM.


----------



## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh I meant to tell you guys. I stepped on the scale today. I'm now 20 lbs below my pre-pregnancy weight. I guess all the running around and not having time to eat pays off somewhere, huh? A lady in one of my FB groups posted today that she read that a day of breastfeeding is equal to the amount of energy needed to run 7 miles. Does that sound right? If so, I wish it would tone me like running 7 miles a day would! I needed to lose the weight anyway. I'd like to start working on toning up now and drop the rest of this weight. I figure if I can get 30 more lbs off, that would be a good weight for my body shape.


----------



## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - first I need to pay more attention to siggys - LOVE the Heart Hero! -

also, IDK, bf'ing makes me eat like it's going out of style. And I am gaining back weight. I want to start walking, I really want to lose more weight. Congrats on your weight loss!

We all slept well, and had much better in-store experiences than the day before. No tantrums!

Hope you and MW are able to meet up. I am hoping she is back home in July so I can visit, I love DH's grandpa and family, but would be nice to hang out with friends too.

MW: men are difficult. But sometimes so am I . . . . and stubborn! I hope you and Sean can work through this.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ That's great about the weight loss. I have no idea how much energy it takes to run 7 miles. I think I've read that breastfeeding uses around 300-500 calories a day. Does that sound right?

I was thinking of going to Ikea, too. I was going to look at their cribs since someone (Kat, I think) posted one for me to see that was only $150. Now that we're here, though, we're sleeping pretty well so I don't know that I need to try one anymore. Maybe there's something about my bed that Dylan doesn't like. He seems to sleep pretty well everywhere except home.

Anyway, meeting to shop with a bunch of kids wouldn't really be fun for getting to know each other anyway. Having a park or playground to go to would be best for me so that Ethan and Kellen can run and play but I don't know how that would be with the babies. There is a little playground in my mom's neighborhood and a bigger one just up the road if you really want to make it a day go to Ikea. Or, I could ask Sean to look into parks near Quantico if you want. Just about any day works for us. We don't have any plans or schedules.









I asked my mom again about how much she wants to charge for the Williamsburg timeshare. She said $100 for weekends and $50 for week days. The total for each of us will be $350 then, I think. $100 each for Friday, Saturday and Sunday and $50 for Monday night. Oh, I forgot to ask her when she wanted to get paid. I'll try to remember that.

I'm excited but I'm also getting a little nervous. How about you guys? I know we're not strangers but it's a little scary meeting everyone in person.

Sean and I talked. He wasn't not talking to me. He was just busy, or so he says. He said he had to work through his breaks because he had to leave for a while to get the rental car and talk to the mechanic. I'm not mad about that but I am getting a little tired of the excuse. I don't see why he couldn't have sent me a quick text telling me he had gotten a car and the Jeep was at a garage. KWIM?


----------



## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I'm excited but I'm also getting a little nervous. How about you guys? I know we're not strangers but it's a little scary meeting everyone in person.
> Sean and I talked. He wasn't not talking to me. He was just busy, or so he says. He said he had to work through his breaks because he had to leave for a while to get the rental car and talk to the mechanic. I'm not mad about that but I am getting a little tired of the excuse. I don't see why he couldn't have sent me a quick text telling me he had gotten a car and the Jeep was at a garage. KWIM?


I'm a little nervous! I actually respect and admire you ladies so much - I actually look fwd to seeing how you parent your littles in person so I can hopefully learn a thing or two!

I'm glad you guys talked. Maybe he was actually pissed and ignoring you but now he sees it wasn't worth fighting over? Idk. I'm with you. Check your phone, you know? Who goes that long w/o checking?

Chris and I are making some progress. He's not the type I can confront and have a sit down talk with. Instead I'm going to have to be the change I want to see. I moved my computer to my bedroom and we talked about having no phones/computers during dinner and family time. I'm going to just not use it as much and try not to zone out as well, and then I'll at least be able to say, "Ive done it, you promised you would, too." (We did talk about it and agree about it, so it's not as though I'm expecting him to read my mind).

He's still just distant and disengaged. He's burnt out from work he says and tired. Like you said, Alysia, am I supposed to feel sorry for him? I'm tired from my work and I don't get to just check out. He'll sit on his comp or his phone while I set out dinner, feed the kids, wrangle, clean up. Then I say, "Can you get Nora in bed?" or "Can you do dishes?" and I feel like he's another child that I'm taking care of. If I have to tell him what to do why don't I just do it myself? I think that's bullshit.

So. We have work to do.

Today went exceptionally well. Finn is feeling better (yay!!!) and we went food shopping together and my word, Nora behaved! I read a tip about before you go into the store, lay out clearly what is expected. I kept it simple. No running, no screaming, no climbing allowed. LOL. I listened to her needs and respected them as best I could. She really wanted to sit at one of the furniture displays and pretend play. I couldn't just leave her up there to do it, so I said if she followed along with my shopping, after we pay we could play at the table. I followed thru. We sat and "drank lemonade" she poured from the pitcher that was there, and Finn bopped a balloon around. We got so many compliments! A few customers as they walked past commented how well behaved the kids were and how special/lucky they were to have a tea party with mommy. I felt good.

Hmm, running the 10k is 6.2 miles and I burned about 950 calories. Bf'ing full time burns quite a bit. I need to keep running. I need to find time!!

I'm down to my pre preg weight and size, but I'm honestly not careful enough about what I eat right now to lose any more. I'd have to get strict again and my head is too burdened with other shit. I know no excuse. Sigh. Someday.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

May Thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1352341/may-2012-rockstar-mamas


----------

