# Are cribs cruel??



## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

Just need some opinions. I loved having her sleep in the bed with me but I've been feeling that it's time to move her. I feel like I'm being cruel to her by putting her in her crib even though we're still in the same room. I need some honest opinions here. Thanx in advance!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Just wondering why you feel it is time to move her?

My ds still sleeps in our bed, with the crib attached side-car style so he does have his own space. He even calls it his crib, tho I call it his bed.

He only recently showed any interest in having his own bed in his room after seeing a friend's bed. He's 2 1/2.

I'm going to let him sleep with us as long as he wants. I figure he'll be in and out of our room for a couple of more years at least.

I remember when I was a small child how much I wanted to be in my parents' bed, esp. on stormy nights or after a bad dream, but was always shooed back to my bed, and felt very, very sad about it.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

If your kid sleeps well and happily in a crib, then it's not cruel. If she's clearly unhappy there, you might want to reconsider.

You can't make a general statement that "cribs are cruel (or not)." Look at the individual situation. There are mamas on these boards whose children have slept better in cribs than in beds, despite the fact that the mamas wanted to keep co-sleeping. There are others who never thought they'd have their kids in bed with them so long who are very content as is. Try it and see what seems to be best for your dd.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

Yes, I agree that cribs are ok in certain situations. However, I believe parents should all try to cosleep and see what works for them. I particularly don't like having a baby in another room, I find that a bit more cruel than letting baby sleep in the crib in the same room. At least you can hear baby breathe and have some kind of contact with baby when being in the same room. I think children should sleep with their parents OR in a crib in their parents room until at least 12 months.


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## chersolly (Aug 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama*
If your kid sleeps well and happily in a crib, then it's not cruel. If she's clearly unhappy there, you might want to reconsider.

Ditto.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

My first started in a crib for few hours each night until our first nursing. My second I was determined to never use the crib and he really needed it by a year. Still loves his bed, took one side off at 2, now it is a toddler bed with one side crib rail. Don't know what my third will need but I am waiting to get some sense from him as he matures. So far, just a few hours here and there in a portacrib when I am running around. Then into bed with Daddy and Mommy. Nate hated to be alone- still does. Joey is more introverted, like Daddy and likes being alone when he needs a break. Zach seems more social- hates to be alone so far. Be attentive to the signals your baby is sending you and respond accordingly. Isn't that what it is all about?


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## shantivibes (Sep 5, 2004)

i think we should let the babies stay with us until they ask not to.i lived in india where the whole family shares a room and girls in thier teenage tears still sleept with mom or eachother.when i stayed in thier home they also wanted me to sleep with them.so we did three girls in a twin bed. allot of love!it our cluture that says we should move them into thier own space...so is he really wanting that move or are you?


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Cribs are not cruel any more than strollers or infant seats are. They can be a positive thing or they can be a tool for neglect.

My oldest never used a crib, however she has some sleep problems and I was feeling touched out for awhile. My baby has slept in a cosleeper or crib from day one. For awhile she had to sleep elevated because of reflux. Now she will spend part of the night with us, part in her crib.

Often she will wake up and coo to herself in her crib, kick her legs. She loves the mattress because it has more bounce than our futon does, and will sometimes sit there and bouce herself or rock on all fours. I'm hoping that by keeping her used to the crib I'm keeping our options open if we decide that it's time to end the family bed when she's a bit older. We lost a LOT of sleep with my 3yo because she was such a bad sleeper, and don't want to get to that state of sleep deprivation again.

shantivibes, my dh grew up in India and they all had a family bedroom until the kids went to kindergarten. Dh and his sister shared a room until he left home, and then she move into her parents' room until the day she got married and moved in with her dh.







But even with all that, they do have a family heirloom crib that both dh and SIL slept in at times in the parents' room.

Darshani


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

I agree with all so far. My daughter just didn't co-sleep well, and we persisted for months. Eventually I put her into a crib beside us, and she slept much better. Then after a while, we put her into her own room and she slept like a rock. She is so attached to her crib, even now at 2y4mo, I can't get her out of it, she loves it in there and getting her out in the mornings or after naps is a challenge.

However, my daughter is VERY independant, always was. She is a little different than most kids this way. I try to nap with her some days and she just says, "want my bed, mama" so I carry her to her own bed. *cry* - I miss co-sleeping! You may miss it too, because we don't have long to snuggle with our children, so I envy you your situation. But, if you want to change, or your child does, give it a go, and see how you all feel.

With love.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

No---I don't feel that cribs are cruel, if your daughter doesn't seem unhappy about it, then why should you be? I admit that dd still sleeps in her own crib, despite being 2 now--though she is beginning to show the urge to climb so it's time to move her into a bed or take the side off and make it a toddler bed soon...

DD co-slept with us until nearly a year and then it became impossible for both of us to sleep if we were close or touching--she tossed and turned, kicked the blankets off both of us, slept sideways, punched and kicked me in her sleep, etc. It became unbearable--dh was taking up 1/2 the bed (sleeping through most of the problems, of course







), dd was taking up 1/3, and I ended up sleeping on my side with no feeling in one arm every morning, totally miserable and not even slightly rested. So it was my choice to try to move her to sleeping in the crib. First we tried setting it up in our bedroom, but we couldn't move, roll over, go to the bathroom or sneeze without waking her up. It was horrible. Once we moved the crib into her own room, she started sleeping through the night much more often, and so did we! She has done well ever since, and had no obvious anxiety over being in her room or sleeping alone--honestly, I think she really needed the space.

Even now, when she wakes up crying, which is rare, she will not go back to sleep if she can touch me in any way--we usually lie on a mat on the living room floor until she drifts back off, then I can transition her back into her crib. This way she can be close without touching me..it's weird, but it works.

It's a personal decision for you and your family to make based on your needs and your children's needs, IMO. As long as your child is happy in the crib, it's not cruel.


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## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

Thanx for all of your wisdom, Mamas







. I will keep trying to listen to mine


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## mamatowill (Aug 23, 2004)

My DS sleeps in a crib in his own room and he is 5 months old. We could not co-sleep because my DH is an incredibly light sleeper. At first DS slept in a bassinet in our room. When we moved, the first night DS slept in "his" room because we were unpacking late into the night and there was no room for him. He LOVED being in his own space and slept like a log. He is very independent and likes having his own space. I want to co-sleep but he won't. We do co-sleep when he is sick because he just wants mamma. It also helps that DS was (and still is) sleeping through the night from 8 pm to 6 am. The seperate crib worked for us but it might not for the next one. The pps are right and you need to look at your situation.


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## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

We use cribs though the girls slept in the same room with us for months. I have a crazy work schedule (early mornings, late nights, sometimes have to go in during the middle of the night) and I didn't want to wake them with all of that. It wouldn't be fair to them or to DH who would have to console them back to sleep.
In the mornings, many times DD1 will come into our room and climb into our bed before she is truly ready to get up in the mornings.


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## bente (Apr 1, 2002)

I think you would get more informative replies if you could tell us why you want to move her from your bed to a crib.
Just a thought, I would want my children attached to us, and not to a wooden piece of furniture.

I do not have the links off the top of my head, but there are countless articles and research available on the benefits of cosleeping. I will find them and come back and post my favorites. Right now my 3.5 year old is "cooking" all by himself in the kitchen, gotta go!!!


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## Jasmyn's Mum (May 24, 2004)

I enjoyed my time with her but she's a bedhog. I know the benefits of cosleeping but she tends to kick me in the kidneys and leave me no room to sleep. I'm a light sleeper. I will admit that snuggling close to her and not having to be fully awake while I nurse her at night has been wonderful. I would never turn her away if she wanted to cuddle. I'm definitely not ready to be in separate rooms though. I guess it just feels like it's time. I will try to pay attention to her signals. It's been a week now and she seems to be getting used to it. She doesn't cry when I put her in there and if she complains I just sit with her untill she falls asleep.


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## Butterfly27 (Aug 25, 2004)

My son is 2 weeks away from being 3 and still wants to cosleep.. Problem is my husband doesnt like it cause he thinks he is being kicked out of the bed and doesnt sleep well with our son in with us... Problem is it used to be just me and my son sleeping together becasue my husband worked the night shift and was gone from 11 pm till 7 am.. so my son slept with me.. I felt more secure with my husband being gone.. but now all my husband does is gripe about our son kicking him so I have to figure out some way to get my son either in his own room or kick my husband to the couch I guess!! LOL


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

I was unable to manage cosleeping after a c/section since I couldn't lie flat. I moved my ds into a crib beside my bed when he outgrew his Arm's Reach, but if he had hated it I'd have brought him into bed with me. Now at 21 months he really likes his crib, and why not, it has nothing but pleasant sleepytime associations for him. I still have him nearly within touching distance, I can hear him breathing and respond to him easily and quickly at night. I'd love if we could've tried cosleeping from the start. As he got older he became a more active sleeper so that's why I tried the crib, and he took to it comfortably.

I think if you introduce it slowly and positively, and don't pressure a child, they will tell you if they can handle it yet.


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## mamales (Mar 23, 2004)

My son slept with me (and my husband) until he was about 6 months old; he gradually moved from right beside me into his crib set up side-car style beside our bed. He never seemed to have a problem with being alone at night (ie. when we put him to bed before we were ready to go), and when we finally put him in his own room, there was no fuss. Obviously, children are different. I still sleep with him from time to time when we're travelling, camping, etc., and neither one of us sleeps well - we really disturb each other. We both sleep much better when we're in totally different rooms. While he was nursing at night, it made so much sense to have him with me ... but if the benefits (to both you and your little one) of being in separate beds (or rooms) clearly outweigh the benefits of sleeping together, and your babe doesn't completely struggle with the transition, then why would it be cruel?


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

No I don't think they are cruel. Both of mine have been in cribs since 3 weeks old. I am a diagnosed insomniac (for the last 17 years) and I can NOT sleep with the kids in my room. They have never been left to cry, never wanted me and not had me there. I always go to them whenever they need me. My son is 3.5 and he was rocked to sleep until 2.5 and now we lay down with him and cuddle and sing songs. My daughter is almost 2 and she still nurses to sleep. Man I sure am cruel.


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## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

I never had a crib until my fourth and I think it's a very good thing. I remember how the twins drove me nuts in bed (they moved out @ 1yo) and how all my kids boogied out of bed as soon as they were old enough to get around. A crib can be a safe spot so that an early rising baby can't wander the house alone... It can be a safe spot if active siblings are near an infant...

I also love cosleeping and my 23 mo sleeps in my room and nurses in my bed once per night and snoozes with me in the morning. From the time she was new she came to my bed and snuggled and nursed--if I fell asleep while she nursed then she stayed and if I was awake I just put her back in the crib. Even then her head was only about two feet away from mine. Now she is about eight feet away. Now, when she nurses I don't fall back to sleep and always put her back because she is restless, kicky, and hard to rest with. It has been pretty seamless, but was less so with the others. Of course, she'll have to move out of the crib soon and will probably do a bit of wandering @ bedtime.

I don't think the decision to keep kids in one's bed should belong only to the children and their needs/wishes. That idea makes it appear as though it's the duty of the parent to let children to stay whether the parent meets their own need for rest and comfort or not. But I'm a bit moderate on child-led things all-around in this way--from weaning to diet to education. So it depends on your general parenting philosophy what is actually comfortable and natural to you.


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## Korwynne (Feb 18, 2004)

we've got our crib sidecarred for Josh.. and I'm wondering why on earth I didn't think of this years ago


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## DesertMommy (Sep 12, 2004)

I was very worried about being cruel and not being bonded well (we didn't know about AP then) just becuase co-sleeping didn't happen for us. Its not that we didn't try either. We were willing to do whatever the little guy needed for the best sleep, which we thought meant sleeping with us. He absolutely would not sleep in our bed at all. He also wouldn't sleep in the cradle I had an inch away from my body, (we had a low bed) So we started putting him in his room in his crib for naps and he immediately calmed down and fell asleep every time. Just like that funny commercial where the daddy puts the baby on the carpet for a second and it falls asleep immediately. We followed ds' cues which is the best of all. Of course I had that monitor next to my ear and jumped up at each sound I heard.

With our next, I am sure we will have to co-sleep since we don't have an extra room right now! But that is fine, we intended to do it in the first place. We may side-car the crib (I like that term, I just learned it here) or get a co sleeper because dh is a big guy and sleeps so heavily. He is always rolling on me and jabbing me. Maybe that was ds #1 problem? He just didn't want to sleep with daddy?

My answer (and I admit I am very new at all this AP type stuff) is that the crib isn't cruel if used correctly for your childs benefit, not just yours.


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## vipassanagal (Aug 28, 2003)

I see that I may be in the minority here with my view that cribs are cruel. At least in our house, with our child, a crib was cruel. I do see them as little prisons. They have never ever seemed right to me. I know they work very well for most families, so some children must be fine with them.

I tried a crib for a week when my son was 3 months. I was to new to mothering to hold my own with all the negative comments about us sleeping together. Anyhow, the crib freaked my ds out. And, it was so much more work for me. I'd have to nurse him, move him, if he woke up, move him, nurse him. As opposed to snuggling nursing, naping, nursing, without all the adjustments.

My son is 2 years and 8 months. He still sleeps with us in what he calls "the mama/papa bed". We all sleep great. My husband loves it b/c he works all day, and they get so much more physical contact. Yes, there were hard times (kicking, waking, etc.), but overall I"m very glad we didn't push the crib and are still co-sleeping. Once I relaxed about getting him out of our bed, sleeping together become wonderful. And, now he never wakes up for long. If he does wake up, he reaches for us and goes right back to sleep.

My suggestion would be to try the crib and see how it feels for you and your baby.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

I agree with the others who said that each case is individual. I planned to co-sleep with DS but he had other ideas. He stayed in our bed for a month, at which point no one was getting any sleep (partially because he had reflux and needed to be elevated). We moved him into his own crib and he slept like a rock that night and every night thereafter! We use a monitor so that I can hear him, and he has never, ever been left to cry.

He has just always been an excellent sleeper and napper, a very confident and independent child...at 18 mos. he puts himself to sleep. I read him a story, say good night, and then I might fold clothes in his room or something (or not) and just lays there stroking his blanket with his eyes closed. He is a really easy baby that way. I am pregant with #2 so we'll see what happens with the next one!


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## texcalkas (May 12, 2004)

In our case, I started out co-sleeping with DD only to find her under her dad, twice. Rather than her be suffocated she was moved to a bassinett at the foot of our bed. She came back to be nursed, always between me and the side of the bed. I still bring her back to bed when she's afraid, needs to nurse or I just want her to be there.

In my sister's case, she would likely committ suicide if cribs were not an option. She has a sleeping disorder and rarely gets more than a few hours of sleep. If a baby were in bed with her she would not sleep period. Her three kids were put in a crib on the other side of the house.

Kimberly


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

I don't think cribs are cruel, (as long as the child isnt being locked in!) but I do cringe when I see one. They are so much like cages. Babies need to be cuddled next to mom, it's where they belong, and where they want to be.


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

What is it about men and their ability to sleep through anything? My husband used to roll on dd also.

I have been trying to nap with my daughter for a few days in our bed (rekindling co-sleeping). And after a while of tossing and turning and rambling on, she turns to me and says, "Mama? I wanna go to my bed."
Darn it all! Its gone! Gone gone gone.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

In the baby lottery, I got one that preferred to sleep alone and one that slept only on me. The DD just wriggled and pushed around in the family bed. One night, exasperated, I put her in the crib. She slept a whole eight hours. Years later, the DS needed constant body heat to sleep. He slept with us in the big bed for a long time.
I think its a matter of listening to the child you have.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

dd has NEVER been at peace in bed with us. maybe because we weren't relaxed either, & she responded to our tension. but, i would bring her in bed with me in the am's after dh went to work (at an ungodly hour!) & she was always restless. she absolutely positively loves her crib- to the point where we joke that she'll be taking it with her to college! she would play in there when she was very little & i needed a shower or something & still loves it today. she wakes up singing & playing with her "guys" (dick & jane bedding). she's so happy in there! i wish i loved my bed 1/2 as much :LOL


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## Calm (Sep 17, 2004)

Quote:

I think its a matter of listening to the child you have










Too right. I often wonder about the tribal (cont. concpt) children, and what happened in these situations. Many AP's advocate co-sleeping, even I tell parents (who ask) that it is apparently better, more 'natural' for the family. Yet, my own child displayed such a difference to that. I have seen one tribal family who had a child like mine, and they put a blanket down in the corner for the child to sleep on as opposed to on their own blanket, which would be similar to a crib, without the bars. It is still separation though, isn't it? So, like nature itself, the nature of the child must be taken into consideration, and not have imposed on them strict AP rules just because that is what we have been lead to believe.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Listen to your heart. If you really feel you're depriving your child of something they need (and children are notorious for telling you when they aren't getting what they need, generally speaking), then it might be cruel. If the sleep situation works for everyone, however, then it is not cruel.

As Dr. Sears says, there is not one right solution for everyone. The best sleep situation is the one in which everyone in the family gets the best sleep.

As for me, I put DS down in his crib and then bring him to our bed when he's woken up for the 2nd or 3rd time (usually around 10 or 11). But, at 10 months old, if he slept all night in his crib, I would probably go ahead and leave him there.

Just my $.02.


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