# Healing the Gut Tribe ~~ July!



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Here's the new thread!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

reposting from June thread:
Originally Posted by caedmyn
Does anyone know how often an EBF baby should poop? I've read that it's normal for them to go up to a week between poops but I don't know if that's really accurate. DD has always pooped at least once a day, but since I started this new diet she has been pooping less frequently, more like every other day, and often smaller poops, too. As far as I could tell she has normal poops before.

My DD used to poop once ot wtice a day, sometimes she would skip a day or two then resume.

Now, however, she is horribly constipated. She is refusing to nurse due to a virus than caused sores in her mouth (day 8). She only eats pureed vegetables, bananas, egg yolks, meat and yogurt. she only accepts water to drink but not enough. Besides the epsom salt bath is there anything I can do? Will prunes help? Although she doesn't like frutis and juices except for bananas. Or would upping her CLO help?
By constipation I mean -hard balls in her diaper after a day of nothing, she's whyney all day long but that's probably due to being sick. How can I make her drink more?

Also, when can I start enzymes? which ones and how strong? The problem is that except for the bananas, everything is cooked.
She is turning 1 tomorrow.
Would culturelle be appropriate at this age.
Since she just quit nursing, should I get the Natren Life Start thing?
I assume she gets enough acidophilus from yogurt.

I'm worried about her nutrition. She lost a ton of weight. She was almost ebf until 8 days ago so now that she went cold turkey with bf, I'm really worried. I try to give her a lot of butter with her meat and veggies. How many egg yolks would provide enough cholesterol? She eats 1-2 a day.

Please help!!!

__________________________

Edina, Mama to Reuben 9-15-02 Lydia 9-26-03 and Betsy 7-3-05

*"For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;" Psalm 139:13-14a*


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

EBG, I'm sorry about your little one!

I started giving dd enzymes before she was a year old. I started with a mild type that my naturopath gave us. Now we use Zyme Prime from Houston's. Go slowly with them though (like a tiny little sprinkle on her food.)

Are you pumping to keep up your milk supply? Perhaps she'll take b'milk in a sippy?

Does she like avocado? They are full of the good fats she needs.

Yes! You can give her diluted prune juice. (I often do.) How long has it been since she's had a bm? If it's really bad you can give her a glycerin suppository. That'll give her immediate relief. Fleet makes them for babies. (I'm sad to say that I know this all too well as we're battling constipation in our house again this weekend.







)

Just mo, but I wouldn't up her clo right now. I'd focus on getting her to eat some more and start the enzymes.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: Nature Calm*

Can't find it anywhere in Canada of course, but which do you think it the better product: Natural Calm or Calm Mama Formula ?

Also, I think the kids might need some to. How do I know for sure though. Just try it out and see if things improve for them? I'm very ingnorant of these issues.
If I do give the kids any (almost 4 and 2 years), should I just give the original Nature Calm (but with child-sized doses of course) or the Calm Kids Formula?

This purchase will be a one a long while type deal, because I'm sure the import surcharges will be quite pricey.

TIA


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana,
I've been taking Natural Calm and to be honest, don't really see much difference in sleep either for me or for my b'fed dd.

I did, however, notice a difference in the way I felt when I took a liquid cal/mag supplement. But, that's just me.

I know firefaery and Jane use it and recommend it.

I thought about getting some Baby Calm for dd but never did. I guess you could just give a small dose but I wouldn't know how much.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, do I remember you warning against grapefruit seed extract? Or was it olive leaf extract? I seem to remember you mentioning something about one of these.









I was thinking of getting some GSE for dd1.

GSE kills good bacteria too, I'd be wary. It can make bad bacterial problems worse for that reason b/c I guess they are more resistant to it or something. I just remember warnings on various ASD parents list to be careful that you are really battling yeast, b/c if you are battling bacteria GSE won't help.

But someone posted a while back that it's been tested to not have any bacterial killing qualities at all, but I think that depends on the brand?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I am not following ya' here. A link between breastfeeding and Having a leaky gut?? Or not breastfeeding?







What is your theory? I missed this detail!!
Thanks, Pat

That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Siana,

Re: Natural Calm
I don't think you need the kids version. Just start with a lower amount, like 100mg. You might want to read about magnesium in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread in Vaccinations (darn that Search function tho!)

Other Canadian resources here:

http://uclbs.org/resources/miscellaneous.php


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Will prunes help? Although she doesn't like frutis and juices except for bananas. Or would upping her CLO help?
By constipation I mean -hard balls in her diaper after a day of nothing, she's whyney all day long but that's probably due to being sick. How can I make her drink more?

Also, when can I start enzymes? which ones and how strong? The problem is that except for the bananas, everything is cooked.
She is turning 1 tomorrow.
Would culturelle be appropriate at this age.
Since she just quit nursing, should I get the Natren Life Start thing?
I assume she gets enough acidophilus from yogurt.

I'm worried about her nutrition. She lost a ton of weight. She was almost ebf until 8 days ago so now that she went cold turkey with bf, I'm really worried. I try to give her a lot of butter with her meat and veggies. How many egg yolks would provide enough cholesterol? She eats 1-2 a day.











Culturelle is recommended and has been tested for all ages. I'm not sure about the Life Start bifidus ... since Elaine says that one overgrows. I do know that it excellent for EBF babes.

I think the amount of butter and egg yolks sound fine. What about trying some avocado pudding?

The BM in a sippy sounds like a great idea.

We usually never have constipation with DS so I'm not a good person to ask. DS reacts with really loose stool to most fruits and juices.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana, Here's the Nutrition/Immunology101thread.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
reposting from June thread:
Originally Posted by caedmyn
Does anyone know how often an EBF baby should poop? I've read that it's normal for them to go up to a week between poops but I don't know if that's really accurate. DD has always pooped at least once a day, but since I started this new diet she has been pooping less frequently, more like every other day, and often smaller poops, too. As far as I could tell she has normal poops before.

My DD used to poop once ot wtice a day, sometimes she would skip a day or two then resume.

Now, however, she is horribly constipated. She is refusing to nurse due to a virus than caused sores in her mouth (day 8). She only eats pureed vegetables, bananas, egg yolks, meat and yogurt. she only accepts water to drink but not enough. Besides the epsom salt bath is there anything I can do? Will prunes help? Although she doesn't like frutis and juices except for bananas. Or would upping her CLO help?
By constipation I mean -hard balls in her diaper after a day of nothing, she's whyney all day long but that's probably due to being sick. How can I make her drink more?

Also, when can I start enzymes? which ones and how strong? The problem is that except for the bananas, everything is cooked.
She is turning 1 tomorrow.
Would culturelle be appropriate at this age.
Since she just quit nursing, should I get the Natren Life Start thing?
I assume she gets enough acidophilus from yogurt.

I'm worried about her nutrition. She lost a ton of weight. She was almost ebf until 8 days ago so now that she went cold turkey with bf, I'm really worried. I try to give her a lot of butter with her meat and veggies. How many egg yolks would provide enough cholesterol? She eats 1-2 a day.

Please help!!!

__________________________

Edina, Mama to Reuben 9-15-02 Lydia 9-26-03 and Betsy 7-3-05

*"For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;" Psalm 139:13-14a*

Edina are you pumping? You can be giving her pumped milk in her food. What all have you done to get her back to the breast? She really still needs your bm.

My friend used flax oil for constipation. I know a side effect of fish oil is diaherea so I say increase the oils! Also you can give her some magnesium. Increase her fluids. Does she eat pureed foods? Can you make them more liquidy or add bm to them? Also just follow her arround with a sippy cup. I know my dd tends to not drink a ton so I follow her arround with a sippy of water and keep offering and having it available for her. I have always done this.

I would wait on the enzymes personally untill this virus has run it's course so you aren't confused about what is causing what.

Be careful about fats. Get plenty into her but if she gets lots of fats at the begining of a meal it may signal her that she is full too soon and actually stop her from eating as much as she needs. One reason why the eat fat lose fat diet works is because you drink some coconut oil 20 min before every meal and it helps you feel full sooner. One reason why low fat diets are so hard to stick to is because fat is what triggers your satiation and if you don't get fat in a meal you may never feel satiated.








s


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

CAn yeast cause constipation?

DD1 has not had a bm going on 3 days now.







Is this a yeast thing?

I'm trying to get her stool samples too. All she wants to eat is fruit, fruit, fruit and her new fave is raisins.

I think the sugar has her constipated. Does this make sense? She goes from mush to this every time. I don't get it.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I found a doctor who knows about "leaky gut"! It is even listed as something they commonly treat







Good...someone who can do some tests and knows what she's talking about. She's a chiropractor...I never would have guessed. Sounds like they do a lot more than crack backs, hmmmm?







Now I just have to try to get an appointment...hope it isn't booked for months. Wish me luck!


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Is there a forum like the enzymestuff.com forum that is geared towards adults & kids who haven't been diagnosed with austism? I'd like to read more but feel like the enzymestuff forums might not be for me.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

subscribing


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

My son was 3 in June. He is highly allergic to eggs and he is a picky eater. How do kids who are picky eaters do on the SCD. I want to try this diet because my son has eczema(since 5 months old). He has been flared up for about a year and a half now and we are getting desperate. He cleared up briefly when we started giving him omega 3. He doesn't want to take a bath anymore or play in his pool because it hurts his legs. He wants to keep his footed pajamas on all day because when he takes them off he just sits and scratches.

He recently spent 3 days in the hospital because he had an allergy induced asthma attack. While in the hospital he had blood drawn for RAST testing. He showed up (on a scale of 1 to 6) a 6 on egg white and 5 on egg yolk plus he was a 2, which is moderately allergic, to wheat, soy, corn, peanuts and a bunch of grasses and trees. We had been eliminating wheat, corn and peanuts before he had the asthma attack. Then after we got the results back from the RAST test I have been at the end of my rope about what to feed him because I know pollen allergies can mean he cross reacts with alot of the stuff he eats like apples, carrots, celery, pears, peaches....everything it seems. He eats healthy. No junk food etc but he is really reluctant to try new things. Have any of you had good results with a picky eater on this diet? I guess I'm just scared he won't eat anything during the introductory days. He only weighs 28 pounds he can't afford to lose anything.

HELP

Edited to add: we knew about the egg allergy, we found that out on his first birthday, he broke out in hives after eating his cake. He hasn't had anything with egg in it since then so the eczema isn't caused by that.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
EBG, I'm sorry about your little one!

I started giving dd enzymes before she was a year old. I started with a mild type that my naturopath gave us. Now we use Zyme Prime from Houston's. Go slowly with them though (like a tiny little sprinkle on her food.)

Are you pumping to keep up your milk supply? Perhaps she'll take b'milk in a sippy?

Does she like avocado? They are full of the good fats she needs.

Yes! You can give her diluted prune juice. (I often do.) How long has it been since she's had a bm? If it's really bad you can give her a glycerin suppository. That'll give her immediate relief. Fleet makes them for babies. (I'm sad to say that I know this all too well as we're battling constipation in our house again this weekend.








)

Just mo, but I wouldn't up her clo right now. I'd focus on getting her to eat some more and start the enzymes.

I'm using Digest Gold for myself and my older DD. IS that too strong? I would just use a tiny bit of course.
She has 2 bm-s yesterday, both times it was a hard little ball in her butt.
She ate a little prune-apple mix with yogurt this morning, hope it helps.
I tried avocado, she doesn't like it. So I'll up her CLO, try to give her some CO (is that OK for babes?) and lots of butter...


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









Culturelle is recommended and has been tested for all ages. I'm not sure about the Life Start bifidus ... since Elaine says that one overgrows. I do know that it excellent for EBF babes.

I think the amount of butter and egg yolks sound fine. What about trying some avocado pudding?

The BM in a sippy sounds like a great idea.

We usually never have constipation with DS so I'm not a good person to ask. DS reacts with really loose stool to most fruits and juices.


I tried bm in a sippy cup several times, she doesn't take it. I tried from a bottle, from a soft spout cup and her regular sippy cup. She only accepts water as a drink. I can try to mix it in food, but will it harm the milk? Lukewarm food of course.
Still trying to pump. Still trying to nurse. Been 9 days.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Logansmom*
My son was 3 in June. He is highly allergic to eggs and he is a picky eater. How do kids who are picky eaters do on the SCD. I want to try this diet because my son has eczema(since 5 months old). He has been flared up for about a year and a half now and we are getting desperate. He cleared up briefly when we started giving him omega 3. He doesn't want to take a bath anymore or play in his pool because it hurts his legs. He wants to keep his footed pajamas on all day because when he takes them off he just sits and scratches.

He recently spent 3 days in the hospital because he had an allergy induced asthma attack. While in the hospital he had blood drawn for RAST testing. He showed up (on a scale of 1 to 6) a 6 on egg white and 5 on egg yolk plus he was a 2, which is moderately allergic, to wheat, soy, corn, peanuts and a bunch of grasses and trees. We had been eliminating wheat, corn and peanuts before he had the asthma attack. Then after we got the results back from the RAST test I have been at the end of my rope about what to feed him because I know pollen allergies can mean he cross reacts with alot of the stuff he eats like apples, carrots, celery, pears, peaches....everything it seems. He eats healthy. No junk food etc but he is really reluctant to try new things. Have any of you had good results with a picky eater on this diet? I guess I'm just scared he won't eat anything during the introductory days. He only weighs 28 pounds he can't afford to lose anything.

HELP

Edited to add: we knew about the egg allergy, we found that out on his first birthday, he broke out in hives after eating his cake. He hasn't had anything with egg in it since then so the eczema isn't caused by that.


Have you tried enzymes?
Enzymedica makes one for allergies, called Allerase. It's high amounts of amylese. Taken between meals.
With meals you could try Digest, Digest Gold or the Houston enzymes -Zyme-Prime because they digest everything, not just one specific food. Also, No-Fenol could help with vegetables and fruits.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

He is highly allergic to eggs and he is a picky eater. How do kids who are picky eaters do on the SCD.
For my oldest son's egg allergy, I went and had NAET on his behalf. Now it appears that he can eat eggs. He is my pickiest eater. He has been been scd for a week. I wouldn't say it is going well. He did eat an apple for the first time in years. I told him he could cheat if he read the drivers book, we got him a permit, and he drove his self, with dh or myself. He is 17, and on a list of life skills to learn this year, driving is the one that we and our friends thought would be unrealistic for him. We'll see.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

EBG - apples are constipating too.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

subbing


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I know we've talked about Kombucha being technically "illegal" on SCD, but I've found that it's really helping me. I'm going to venture out to make my own, but all the reports show that white refined sugar gives the best kombucha. Any advice on how to brew to make it safe-ER for SCD? Some advice to brew for 14 days, but that it gets a little acidic....Any advice would be appreciated!

While I'm waiting for my super-expensive Pro-Gurt starter to arrive, I gave cultured cow cream one last try with a lot of the new Houston enzymes that I just ordered. Wish me luck







: I'll report back, in case it can help anyone. Can you tell that I'm doing everything I can to not need goat (or no) dairy?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is
what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

And _formula feeding_ WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance leads to.... ?? (allergies/intolerances/sensitivities) or Prevacid, Zantac and no real diagnosis other than "colic"?? Not sure I agree with bf'ing being the culprit.

My impression is that what I ate in pregnancy in *large* quantities seems to be the foods that ds is intolerant of: dairy, wheat, corn, soy. On the Bradley Childbirth high protein diet, I consumed TONs of dairy and whole wheat. Perhaps, *I* wasn't digesting these properly while pregnant and that was a variable. (Plus there are my mercury fillings and high stress during pregnancy and therefore probably high cortisol levels in utero.) But, I don't see breastfeeding as the culprit. I eliminated those foods very early on while nursing and ds's intolerances have improved greatly over time (with breastfeeding and an elimination diet). So, my perception is that he was born with the leaky gut?/intolerances, not that nursing lead to them. JMHO Can't imagine what would have happened to his immune system with formula.







: I really can't believe that an evolutionary necessity (breastfeeding) is maladaptive for a baby's survival. I am more inclined to believe that it is the food (and toxins/mercury) that we/I eat (are exposed to) before and after birth that impair the immune system, irrelevant of route (breast or formula).

Not meaning to be argumentative, but I feel strongly defensive of breastfeeding. And I observed ds's issues very early~6 weeks neonate.

OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.

But, we also have the genetic piece that dh's whole family is allergic/intolerant/sensitive GI-wise (and systemically) and most were formula fed. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion.

Pat


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.


I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before. The baby's gut starts being colonized with bacteria as it travels through the birth canal, so if the mother's gut flora is less than ideal, that is being passed on to the baby. And if the baby is born via C-section, it doesn't get the benefit of the bacteria at all. Then the baby's gut continues being colonized the first time it eats--if it is formula fed, it has absolutely no chance at developing normal gut flora. I've seen links on this but don't have them saved--hopefully someone else can post them. Also, antibiotics or vaxes mess with the gut flora, whether the baby is BF or formula fed.

I think BF'ing, because of all its protective effects, contributes less to allergies than formula feeding, even if the mother does have a leaky gut. JMO, though.

Oh, and my daughter started showing symptoms of food intolerances (diaper rashes and cradle cap) at about one week old. She didn't have them at birth, so I'm inclined to think she was fine at birth. (And she was homebirthed, no antibiotics at any time, no vaxes, EBF.)


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before. <snip>

Oh, and my daughter started showing symptoms of food intolerances (diaper rashes and cradle cap) at about one week old. She didn't have them at birth, so I'm inclined to think she was fine at birth. (And she was homebirthed, no antibiotics at any time, no vaxes, EBF.)

Interesting. We did have meconium and ds did receive several doses of antibiotics (IV) immediately after birth. But, with natural childbirth, no vax, clothe diapers, exclusive breastfeeding for nearly a year, etc. I appreciate your observations from a very pure birth experience at home, etc. This does seem to support the post birth development of GI issues. I am curious about your dairy, wheat consumption prenatally. And mercury exposure as common variables.

I do wonder about the genetic predispostion though as a precursor, AND my other pregnancy "toxins" as a variable in ds's increased sensitivities despite a very healthy pregnancy. I have observed that my diet while breastfeeding was directly a variable in ds intolerances and behaviors. And I wonder if having "corrected"/eliminated so much in my diet so early was the key to him developing a huge ability to tolerate so many foods now.

I continue to lurk as I am still curious if we can "heal" more, for either of us.

Pat


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I don't think that anyone on here is arguing that children would be better off with formula if the mom has a leaky gut. Instead the argument is that the mom's leaky gut is a contributing factor to why the baby has a leaky gut/allergies/intollerances etc. Luckily bm allows lots of good healing things along with the food particles that are tough to digest. Formula simply has the tough to digest stuff w/o any of the benefit of the antibodies, lauric acid etc that can heal the gut. We aren't ignorant to that fact. However, if I had realized what I was setting myself up for in raising dd by not addressing my own leaky gut years ago when I knew I had it, I wouldn't have pursued ttc her untill I felt I had that solved. It also means that I know that just cutting out the foods she can't tolerate doesn't fix her gut. I need to fix the root cause, her gut flora imbalance.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
However, if I had realized what I was setting myself up for in raising dd by not addressing my own leaky gut years ago when I knew I had it, I wouldn't have pursued ttc her untill I felt I had that solved. It also means that I know that just cutting out the foods she can't tolerate doesn't fix her gut. I need to fix the root cause, her gut flora imbalance.

Ahh, yes, IF I had known.....

But, I am not completely convinced that the breastmilk (aka my diet/gut issues?) is the only or most significant variable. Unlike caedmyn, we have/had many other variables, (dh's genetic component is a significant one and my 10 mercury fillings). Caedmyn's experience is an interesting one. I am also intrigued since I am not convinced that *I* have/had leaky gut issues BUT ds (and dh) has/had allergies/intolerances/sensitivities. But they are non-debilitating, more questionable than the degree that others have experienced. So, I am intrigued to find relevant variables that could be/could have been addressed from an optimization perspective. We no longer nurse, so that isn't an issue for us. But, I am not sure that the breastmilk/diet is the key to eliminating allergies/intolerances/sensitivities.

I am fascinated to see the progress that others have experienced and compare it to our own. "Healing" the gut is an interesting prospect. I am uncertain that eliminating the causes/intolerances doesn't benefit the gut alone. That seems to be our experience over the long run. He is 5 y/o now. Perhaps, ds's "improvement" is a developmental progression, rather than a "healing".







As now (and for about 2 years) he eats many of the things that he couldn't previously. I guess it depends on the definition of "healed". If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?

I appreciate the discussion of the theory behind the "treatment" of healing the gut.

Oh, but we have utilized the classical homeopathy variable though. Hmmmm....so many variables to untangle.

Pat


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

I've thought this too, but when I shared this idea/theory with my DP and a local LLL leader, they both thought there was no basis/proof for thinking this.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't have anything to back this up, but I'm inclined to think the leaky gut problems in babies start after birth...or possibly even during birth, but not before...

ITA!

My DS too was 100% fine for about a month after birth (UC birth). Then he started with the throwing up. As that phased out, the eczema phased in.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: Consitpation*

So Apples and Bananas are both constipating?







:

I just read somewhere that very ripe banans aren't considered constipating, but rather more like a laxative. Apparently cooked banana is used for diarrhea.

Also, I thought since both had soluable fiber, this wouldn't be such a huge issue, provided there is sufficient water in the diet??

Wouldn't CLO help lubricate the intestinal track and help with constipation? I've heard Flax seed oil is a rather reliable aid for children with constipation. I certainly don't find the straight oil platable, but I've know several kids who have developed quite a liking for it. I think Flax seed oil would be SCD illegal though.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *scubamama*
If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?
This a very interesting question and one I 'd love to know the answer to. Not that I'm planning on ever eating again as I once did, I would like to think that once healed, you're healed.

To add to the chicken/egg discussion:

I believe (though I have absolutely no basis for it other than *gut* feeling) that dd had her issues in utero. She was fine when she was born but her skin tone was ruddy and her complexion just awful. Her eyes were not clear and she looked *sick* - - the kind of *sick* that she looked like during the height of the assault of wheat on her system. I posted a picture of her several months ago - - a "before and after" shot. Before eliminating wheat and after. The difference is remarkable.

I believe that she had this problem before she was born because she had sleep issues from the very day she was born.

Even though my diet contained LOTS of refined crap during her first few months I am still convinced that had I been a formula feeding mom, she would have been . . . well, I don't even want to think about it.

Looking back I'm ashamed of myself for the diet I had while pregnant w/her and for her first few months. I was always pretty conscious of what I ate and how I felt. My only excuse is the time factor. I was exhausted most of the time and bought things in the house that I could "grab and eat one-handed." For a person who birthed naturally twice so that no drugs would be passed to my babies, I sure did them a disservice in this regard.









Live and Learn I guess. . . .

ETA: Of course, a mouthful of amalgams and a flu shot while pregnant probably didn't help matters much.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana, re: constipation:

I don't know about the difference between really ripe bananas and not-so-ripe ones. I just know the silly acronym: BRAT for constipating foods. (Bananas, Rice, Apples and Toast.)

Vitamin C will help as will an epsom salt soak. I gave dd some sodium ascorbate this morning in her juice and that seemed to help.









I actually forgot that CLO can help this issue.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Back from travels. I did pretty well about staying legal, but not completely. Interestingly, after an evening of some illegals, I was no longer constipated in the morning. This happened twice. Thoughts?


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*

Looking back I'm ashamed of myself for the diet I had while pregnant w/her and for her first few months. I was always pretty conscious of what I ate and how I felt. My only excuse is the time factor. I was exhausted most of the time and bought things in the house that I could "grab and eat one-handed." For a person who birthed naturally twice so that no drugs would be passed to my babies, I sure did them a disservice in this regard.










See, this is what gets me. My diet was so absolutely close to SCD (pre and post birth) except for wheat, some corn and soy. I ate mostly animal protein and vegetables, little fruit. No awareness of any yeast issues for either of us. Very few refined foods.







It seems that ds intolerances are/were associated with me eating large amounts of dairy pre and post birth. Once eliminated, GI distress/symptoms improved significantly. Now he can consume dairy and wheat almost daily without issue.

We too had the sleep issues (constantly for two years). But, I attribute that to nap/nursing and habituating the "nipple-in-the-mouth" for sleep inducement/association. Once we added sleep associations, sleep improved 500%. Praise Be to Pantley!

The mercury seems to be the commonality as a precursor, imo. I don't believe that this has been eliminated from him.......... And poor me with a mouth full.









Pat


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
The mercury seems to be the commonality as a precursor, imo. I don't believe that this has been eliminated from him.......... And poor me with a mouth full.









Pat

Yeah I have a mouthful of mercury, too


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Me too caedmyn and I'm starting to believe that dd's problems are stemming from her being mercury toxic. (She has been hair tested and the results show "a high probability of mercury poisoning.) Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do next.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

EBG, could you try sneaking breastmilk into juice or something? Or mixing it with cooked, cooled fruit? Also, did you post in the breastfeeding forum about the nursing strike? I do hope you can relactate her, both for her health and your peace of mind. ((hugs))).

Has anyone noticed that enzymes caused nosebleeds? I've noticed when I'm taking more of them, ds has a lot more nosebleeds, and when I've slacked off, they improve.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
EBG, could you try sneaking breastmilk into juice or something? Or mixing it with cooked, cooled fruit? Also, did you post in the breastfeeding forum about the nursing strike? I do hope you can relactate her, both for her health and your peace of mind. ((hugs))).

Has anyone noticed that enzymes caused nosebleeds? I've noticed when I'm taking more of them, ds has a lot more nosebleeds, and when I've slacked off, they improve.

Yes I posted a thread called nursing strike in breastfeeding.
I was able to squirt some bm in her mouth with a syrange (sp?). She resisted tremendously but it's one of those things when I have to put my foot down. I have to force feed her fluids








She is still very very constipated. Poor thing she cries and cries, trying to push and nothing....
We are doing epsom salt baths, trying to force down some prune juice cut out bananas, now apples too... so how come apples are constipating and pears are not? I don't understand which frruits are OK and which ones are not







:

She still has a breast aversion, she freaks out when I try to nurse her although I think she's not sick any more. She is still very weak and lethargic.


----------



## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

So my DDs pooping has become very prolific and still loose in the last few days. Not sure if its because she's eating different foods than normal or what.

At this point I'm thinking of just trying the broad spectrum enzyme and see what happens. What do folks think?

Also, if I take enzymes & she's still bfing (she's 2.5 yrs old) will she be affected by what I'm taking?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I went to a new chiro yesterday. I couldn't get ahold of mine and I had a migrane. She fixed my migrane and supposedly is great at fixing kids sleep issues. She is also on our insurance (our regular chiro isn't). I'm taking dd on Monday.

We talked a bit about candida and she said that she has her candidia patients take 2 yeast killers at a time and switch every 3 weeks. So 2 for three weeks then 2 different ones for the next 3 weeks and then a third set of 2 for the 3rd 3 weeks then back to the first ones again. She said to expect it to take at least 9 months to get rid of yeast this way (and following an anti candida diet).

I'm still waiting for that suppliment that was recomended.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Back from travels. I did pretty well about staying legal, but not completely. Interestingly, after an evening of some illegals, I was no longer constipated in the morning. This happened twice. Thoughts?

Quoted myself to see if anyone has any thoughts. I am back to pretty much all legal, and now constipated again.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That bf'ing WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance is what leads to allergies/intolerances/sensitivities in your babe.

Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.

Except that if they get their gut flora from their mom and mom's flora are all messed up... I had a raging vaginal yi that I couldn't get undercontrol right before dd was born.

Well my dd was on abx and was force fed formula at first anyhow so she didn't have a chance.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Not sure I totally agree with this.

Are you saying, if the mother has a leaky gut and breastfeeds, that will result in allergies etc in a baby?

That depends whose immune system the baby has inherited, because theoretically, breastmilk itself should establish the right flora PROVIDED that not one bottle of formula is ever given.

Ds never, ever had any formula. And he exclusively breastfeed until most of year, closer to 15-18 months before he was eating about 50% of calories (by guess). And starting first solids at 10 months, only had about 10 bites (total) of rice cereal. And no wheat, dairy, soy, corn, etc. directly until after age 2.5. He still had reactions to these foods if I accidently ate something. And I was VERY anal about our diet. I even made myself throw up when I accidently ate whole wheat bread once.

BUT, he had about 3-4 doses of IV antibiotics immediately after birth. Long story..... fear mongering regarding the meconium and exagerated concerns regarding being "post date" B.S. from the neonatologist. So, we probably messed up his gut from the get-go.









Pat


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Have you tried enzymes?
Enzymedica makes one for allergies, called Allerase. It's high amounts of amylese. Taken between meals.
With meals you could try Digest, Digest Gold or the Houston enzymes -Zyme-Prime because they digest everything, not just one specific food. Also, No-Fenol could help with vegetables and fruits.

Enzymes are one of those things I have been researching to death.







: I tend to be overly cautious before I try anything different with him. I have been looking into doing acidophilus and the enzymes before I try the SCD I just haven't felt comfortable with my knowledge about it yet.

I am sooooo thankful to have found this forum. There is so much great info. on here that I don't think I would have found just searching on my own and I really feel like the info I have found here is going to help Logan.







Thanks Everyone!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Except that if they get their gut flora from their mom and mom's flora are all messed up... I had a raging vaginal yi that I couldn't get undercontrol right before dd was born.

Well my dd was on abx and was force fed formula at first anyhow so she didn't have a chance.

















:

I think if a mama had the correct gut flora to pass on an intact immune system to her child, then therefore she wouldn't have a leaky gut. Marsha Walker's article on "Just One Bottle" says that six weeks (? I think) of EBF will fix the damage of one bottle and seal up the babe's gut. But I'm sure this is only if the mama's flora is correct, and she doesn't have thrush, etc.

I didn't mean to say this is definitely the way it is. Just my theory that I would love to write about, but can't, as there is no research on it.

I'm strongly of the opinion that messed up gut flora causes food "allergies". Whether it's the food particles in the mama's bloodstream that is leaked thru her gut, or the wrong gut flora, or both.

*MT,*
Did Archie K's or Robert Reisinger's research touch on this? Anyone else you can point us to?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Ds never, ever had any formula. And he exclusively breastfeed until most of year, closer to 15-18 months before he was eating about 50% of calories (by guess). And starting first solids at 10 months, only had about 10 bites (total) of rice cereal. And no wheat, dairy, soy, corn, etc. directly until after age 2.5. He still had reactions to these foods if I accidently ate something. And I was VERY anal about our diet. I even made myself throw up when I accidently ate whole wheat bread once.

BUT, he had about 3-4 doses of IV antibiotics immediately after birth. Long story..... fear mongering regarding the meconium and exagerated concerns regarding being "post date" B.S. from the neonatologist. So, we probably messed up his gut from the get-go.









Pat











Isn't modern medicine wonderful









I forget what your story is, Pat... did you have abx or gut problems that contributed to this too you think?

I had abx thru IV right after birth (that they didn't tell me about otherwise I would have refused as they were prophylactic) and DS had a few bottles of formula in the days right after birth only. Labor was 40 hrs long and my water had been leaking for that long. His hematocrit levels were rather high and that was why. I always wondered if not cutting cord right away was good or bad for him. I'm guessing good?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Quoted myself to see if anyone has any thoughts. I am back to pretty much all legal, and now constipated again.









After "illegals" it would make sense that you wouldn't be constipated, as certain gut bugs would increase. For ex. my DS still cannot do raw fruit. Total mush appears. The stools actually contain over half bacteria. The gut flora regulates your bowels to a great extent.

Constipation can mean too much meat. Not enough magnesium in diet. Or die off (dead bacteria doesn't move along so well).


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
After "illegals" it would make sense that you wouldn't be constipated, as certain gut bugs would increase. For ex. my DS still cannot do raw fruit. Total mush appears. The stools actually contain over half bacteria. The gut flora regulates your bowels to a great extent.

Constipation can mean too much meat. Not enough magnesium in diet. Or die off (dead bacteria doesn't move along so well).

I am eating meat once a day. I am taking 60 mg of magnesium 3x a day. I am trying to drink as much water as possible. I am thinking that I need to be introducing more veggies and fruits more quickly. I cannot wait until I can do raw, as that simplify my life 10 fold.

I also need to find another yogurt making method. My oven doesn't stay warm enough with just the light on, and when I try to warm it up periodically, apparently I am letting it get too warm, as I get curds and whey way to often. There is a thermos/cooler method, right? Must investigate something.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Have you tried using a higher watt bulb?

That is a very low amount of mag. I think over in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread the same amount of mag. as calcium was suggested for deficiencies, around 1000-1200 mg maybe?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I am eating meat once a day. I am taking 60 mg of magnesium 3x a day. I am trying to drink as much water as possible. I am thinking that I need to be introducing more veggies and fruits more quickly. I cannot wait until I can do raw, as that simplify my life 10 fold.

I also need to find another yogurt making method. My oven doesn't stay warm enough with just the light on, and when I try to warm it up periodically, apparently I am letting it get too warm, as I get curds and whey way to often. There is a thermos/cooler method, right? Must investigate something.

That isn't anywhere near enough mag.

I was making yogurt in my cooler for a while with a heating pad, untill my heating pad died. Just experiement with jars of water and a thermometer untill you find the setting that keeps it at 100ish for a long time. I found that two heating pads on medium worked well, but only that two. My other one didn't get the right temp (I can't now remember if it was too hot or too cold). I since have purchased 4 of the salton yogurt makers from Amazon. I can make a gallon at once and the price was right with free shipping! They fit a quart canning jar so I make it in that so that it only touches glass, not plastic.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
CAn yeast cause constipation?

DD1 has not had a bm going on 3 days now.







Is this a yeast thing?

I'm trying to get her stool samples too. All she wants to eat is fruit, fruit, fruit and her new fave is raisins.

I think the sugar has her constipated. Does this make sense? She goes from mush to this every time. I don't get it.

I think constipation and diarrhea is a very individual thing and sometimes yeast/bacteria can cause both.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

moonshine, I could never quite get the oven method right either. Dh "built" me a yogurt maker out of a simple styrofoam cooler, cut a hole in the top and put a light fixture in there and screwed a small round 40 watt bulb into it. I keep the top slightly pushed back to maintain the proper temp but it works like a charm every time & it was really easy to make.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
I found a doctor who knows about "leaky gut"! It is even listed as something they commonly treat







Good...someone who can do some tests and knows what she's talking about. She's a chiropractor...I never would have guessed. Sounds like they do a lot more than crack backs, hmmmm?







Now I just have to try to get an appointment...hope it isn't booked for months. Wish me luck!









That is awesome, good luck!!
Many chiros have treatment in nutrition, Gale Force has a good one, or two...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Is there a forum like the enzymestuff.com forum that is geared towards adults & kids who haven't been diagnosed with austism? I'd like to read more but feel like the enzymestuff forums might not be for me.

Use that one, there are many adult issues they deal with, Karen specifically has said as such.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Logansmom*
My son was 3 in June. He is highly allergic to eggs and he is a picky eater. How do kids who are picky eaters do on the SCD. I want to try this diet because my son has eczema(since 5 months old). He has been flared up for about a year and a half now and we are getting desperate. He cleared up briefly when we started giving him omega 3. He doesn't want to take a bath anymore or play in his pool because it hurts his legs. He wants to keep his footed pajamas on all day because when he takes them off he just sits and scratches.










I so feel for you and your little one!!
Keep up with the CLO, it really does make a difference.
There are a lot of parents with picky eaters on the Pecanbread Yahoo group.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I'm using Digest Gold for myself and my older DD. IS that too strong? I would just use a tiny bit of course.
She has 2 bm-s yesterday, both times it was a hard little ball in her butt.
She ate a little prune-apple mix with yogurt this morning, hope it helps.
I tried avocado, she doesn't like it. So I'll up her CLO, try to give her some CO (is that OK for babes?) and lots of butter...

Yes CO is great b/c it does not require bile to digest.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I tried bm in a sippy cup several times, she doesn't take it. I tried from a bottle, from a soft spout cup and her regular sippy cup. She only accepts water as a drink. I can try to mix it in food, but will it harm the milk? Lukewarm food of course.
Still trying to pump. Still trying to nurse. Been 9 days.









how are you doing today? BM is wonderful in food, the digestive enzymes will be very beneficial for fats and carbs especially. Just make sure the food is not above 118 degrees F.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
And _formula feeding_ WITH a leaky gut and intestinal flora imbalance leads to.... ?? (allergies/intolerances/sensitivities) or Prevacid, Zantac and no real diagnosis other than "colic"?? Not sure I agree with bf'ing being the culprit.

...

Not meaning to be argumentative, but I feel strongly defensive of breastfeeding. And I observed ds's issues very early~6 weeks neonate.

OH, I am rereading and seeming to understand that you mean the MOTHER's leaky gut causes the babies' intolerances. Hmmm....I see. Interesting theory. That could fit our experience also. But, imo, a pregnancy "leaky gut" probably contributes to all the intolerant/sensitive babies who are NOT breastfed. Or do you believe that the formula does in that case? I personally believe that the pregnancy variable is at least as strong as the postnatal experience, because of the documented immunity *benefit* for breastfed babies to have FEWER intolerances/allergies/sensitivities than formula fed babies.

But, we also have the genetic piece that dh's whole family is allergic/intolerant/sensitive GI-wise (and systemically) and most were formula fed. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion.

Pat

No, no, no... I'd never say FF instead!









Breastmilk is absolutely the ONLY choice to nourish a babe and should be continued as long as possible! I was stupid to wean my DS at 26 months!

I just mean that the mama's gut flora means everything in this case. It is a huge factor in the immune system that the child inherits.

Also I think one _major_ factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... *nutritional deficiencies*. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.

I hope MT will jump in with her link to Probiotics 101 post with studies on gut flora that she put up a couple weeks ago. I meant to link it to the Cheat Sheet but forgot. (_Curse lack of Seach function for 800th time!_







)

Also nutrition is a major factor in whether you excrete or hold onto toxins so I think that also influences whether your child reacts to the toxins as well. The vitamin C glutathione connection for example. The more I read, the more I think that it's not necessarily that our world is more toxic ... it's that our world is more toxic AND we are eating much less nutrients than the diets we are designed to eat.

(Studies of native diets showed in many different societies they still consumed _at least_ 10x the fat soluble vits. and 4x the minerals and water soluble vits as modern diets.)

I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.

Also another quick thing related to this... all allergies, asthma etc. have exploded in recent years. Therefore cannot be genetic b/c there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
So my DDs pooping has become very prolific and still loose in the last few days. Not sure if its because she's eating different foods than normal or what.

At this point I'm thinking of just trying the broad spectrum enzyme and see what happens. What do folks think?

Also, if I take enzymes & she's still bfing (she's 2.5 yrs old) will she be affected by what I'm taking?

Yes she will be getting enzymes from you. Start yours first and wait until you are sure she is tolerating them well at the level you want to be taking them.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
... so how come apples are constipating and pears are not? I don't understand which frruits are OK and which ones are not







:


I think this is very individual. Apples have a hard to digest sugar (sorbiol) both DS and several IRL kids I know get diarrhea from apples.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also I think one _major_ factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... *nutritional deficiencies*. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.


I meant to add that to the discussion...just never got around to it. Since the child inherits the mother's nutritional problems, it makes sense that problems with the baby at birth would be caused by the mother's diet. But for those babies who appear fine at birth, then the whole gut flora thing kicks in and can cause problems (and of course for those who didn't appear fine at birth, too).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone have suggestions on fairly non-gut damaging things I can eat with the stomach flu? I had a nasty case of stomach flu on Sunday and am still having trouble with eating--I'm hungry and really need to eat but nothing sounds good except pretzels and junk food. Absolutely everything I can eat on this anti-candida diet sounds terrible to me right now.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also I think one major factor that is not being touched on in this very interesting discussion ... nutritional deficiencies. That could be the most important factor effecting development in utero, and then the gut flora effects the child's immune system at birth, when their gut colonizes.

I hope MT will jump in with her link to Probiotics 101 post with studies on gut flora that she put up a couple weeks ago. I meant to link it to the Cheat Sheet but forgot. (Curse lack of Seach function for 800th time! )

Also nutrition is a major factor in whether you excrete or hold onto toxins so I think that also influences whether your child reacts to the toxins as well. The vitamin C glutathione connection for example. The more I read, the more I think that it's not necessarily that our world is more toxic ... it's that our world is more toxic AND we are eating much less nutrients than the diets we are designed to eat.
nak
ITA and am just finding this out as it relates to dd. I am only beginning to understand how this all relates but the pieces are starting to come together for me & I feel like I've reached a whole new level of understanding yk?

btw, was the discussion re: vit c & glutathione on MT's 101 thread? I don't remember & need to read it again.

I've been experimenting w/ vit. c for dd & seeing amazing things. When I put it all together in my mind I'm going to post about it (somewhere).


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

I'm strongly of the opinion that messed up gut flora causes food "allergies". Whether it's the food particles in the mama's bloodstream that is leaked thru her gut, or the wrong gut flora, or both.

So can I conversely assume that since both my kids are fine in this regard, that I had, at least at the time, healthy gut flora? Both have perfect teeth, healthy immune sysmtems, no known allergies. I was close to vegan for about 2 years before concieving DD1. She was bf for 17 months, at which point I was pregnant with DD2. I did feel that my reserves were lower with DD2, but figured it was for practical reasons (older, had a child already, going to school, etc). DD2's first year was AWFUL for me. I finally feel that I have recovered from that.

I am now wondering if the health of my teeth took a hit from the 2 pregnancies, and whatever nutritional deficiencies I might have. Not in caveties, but in gum health. I really need to get back to the dentist.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Perhaps, ds's "improvement" is a developmental progression, rather than a "healing".







As now (and for about 2 years) he eats many of the things that he couldn't previously. I guess it depends on the definition of "healed". If one has a propensity to a "leaky gut", if they assault it even after "healed", wouldn't one be inclined to have symptoms again? Or is the proposition that the gut will no longer be reactive once "healed"?

I appreciate the discussion of the theory behind the "treatment" of healing the gut.

Oh, but we have utilized the classical homeopathy variable though. Hmmmm....so many variables to untangle.

Pat

My previous message got eaten up by server...









I don't think BM is the only cause but it's a variable. The gut flora the child has is by far the chief factor. And the nutritional issue.

Which also... your gut flora can be the cause or an effect, see this study:

*Abnormal Gut Fermentation: Laboratory Studies reveal Deficiency of B vitamins, Zinc, and Magnesium*
Keith K. Eaton A1, John McLaren Howard A2, Adrian Hunnisett A2, Malcolm Harris
Journal of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine
Issue: Volume 14, Number 2 / June 2004
Pages: 115 - 120

Quote:

*Abstract:*
Gut fermentation in the colon is a normal phenomenon whereby soluble non-starch polysaccharides are metabolized to short-chain fatty acids. Abnormal fermentation may be associated with clinical symptoms and is generally assumed to take place in the small bowel. It may be established by ethanol production after a sugar challenge in the fasting subject, which produces maximum production of ethanol 1 hour after sugar challenge. This timing is compatible with the dose acting in the small bowel, but not the large. It was noted that patients with abnormal gut fermentation established by gut fermentation ethanol production tests tended to have low levels of vitamins and minerals, and it was therefore decided to make a prospective study of patients with the condition to determine if this was so.

Patients were tested for ethanol production together with standard functional analysis techniques for vitamins B1, B2, and B6 and zinc and magnesium concentrations by sweat analysis using air/acetylene flame atomic absorption. Fifty normal subjects (group A) were analyzed against 30 positive patients by alcohol testing (group B). Statistical analysis, using the Wilcoxon Sum of Ranks test, revealed a remarkable and consistently high difference for vitamins and minerals between the two groups. In group B, 19 of 30 patients had four of five or five of five nutrients abnormal, and no subject with a positive alcohol test had less than two abnormal nutrients.

It is concluded that the syndrome that causes abnormal gut fermentation appears to have adverse effects on levels of B vitamins, zinc, and magnesium. As yet it is not clear whether this is a result of malabsorption, over-utilization, or excessive excretion. The level of ethanol production in this condition is low, but the presence of the nutritional deficits implies that the syndrome may cause quite significant adverse effects on health. More research in this area is required to replicate and extend these studies.
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.co...wynm7djqe935rq
The idea of "healing" leaky gut is simple: get the gut flora back into balance of approx. 85% good bacteria holding the 15% bad in check. Whether, when and how it can go bad again I guess depends on certain circumstances.

Tell me more about the classical homeopathy. I think our practioner is a dud. (have 3rd remedy to give DS, haven't done so yet).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Anyone have suggestions on fairly non-gut damaging things I can eat with the stomach flu? I had a nasty case of stomach flu on Sunday and am still having trouble with eating--I'm hungry and really need to eat but nothing sounds good except pretzels and junk food. Absolutely everything I can eat on this anti-candida diet sounds terrible to me right now.

I just had stomach flu myself .... bananas and chicken broth helped get me back on track.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
nak
ITA and am just finding this out as it relates to dd. I am only beginning to understand how this all relates but the pieces are starting to come together for me & I feel like I've reached a whole new level of understanding yk?

btw, was the discussion re: vit c & glutathione on MT's 101 thread? I don't remember & need to read it again.

I've been experimenting w/ vit. c for dd & seeing amazing things. When I put it all together in my mind I'm going to post about it (somewhere).









Yes, I still feel that way, the subject area is so vast!

I don't know about the N/I 101 thread but here is info on Vit. C and glutathione. We might have been talking about it in the "What Causes Autism" thread.

Quote:

*How to Boost Glutathione Levels*

Glutathione is a small protein composed of three amino acids - cysteine, glutamic acid, and glycine - that is involved in detoxification and antioxidant mechanisms. Many toxins are dealt with by "handcuffing" the toxin to another molecule so it can be escorted out of the body. The process of adding one molecule to another is called conjugation. Glutathione is one of the most important conjugating compounds in helping the body eliminate fat-soluble toxins such as heavy metals, solvents, and pesticides to transform them into a water-soluble form allowing more efficient excretion via the kidneys...

*Dietary Glutathione is Better than Supplements*

Don't look to expensive supplements containing glutathione to boost levels of glutathione in the body. While dietary forms of glutathione appear to be efficiently absorbed into the blood, the same does not appear to be true for glutathione supplements in humans. When healthy subjects were given a single dose of up to 3,000 mg of glutathione researchers found there was no increase in blood glutathione levels.11 The authors of the study concluded "it is not feasible to increase circulating glutathione to a clinically beneficial extent by the oral administrating of a single dose of 3 g of glutathione." In contrast, blood glutathione levels rose nearly 50% in healthy individuals taking 500 mg of vitamin C.12 Vitamin C raises glutathione by helping the body manufacture it. In addition, to vitamin C, dietary sources of glutathione and several other nutritional compounds can help increase glutathione levels including N-acetylcysteine (NAC), alpha-lipoic acid (_Jane note: don't take ALA if Hg toxic_), glutamine, methionine, and whey protein. Also, vitamin B6, riboflavin, and selenium are required in the manufacture of glutathione.

As far as foods go, fresh fruits and vegetables provide excellent levels of glutathione, but cooked foods contained far less.10 Asparagus, avocado, and walnuts are particularly rich dietary sources of glutathione.
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/drmurr...ionelevels.htm
Vitamin C is best taken several times a day b/c it washes out of the body fairly quickly, like an hour. DS and myself take it at every meal and snack.

I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

The other one by Steve Hickey is available by download:
http://www.lulu.com/content/55277

Also just got "_Children with Starving Brains_" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
So can I conversely assume that since both my kids are fine in this regard, that I had, at least at the time, healthy gut flora? Both have perfect teeth, healthy immune sysmtems, no known allergies. I was close to vegan for about 2 years before concieving DD1. She was bf for 17 months, at which point I was pregnant with DD2. I did feel that my reserves were lower with DD2, but figured it was for practical reasons (older, had a child already, going to school, etc). DD2's first year was AWFUL for me. I finally feel that I have recovered from that.

I am now wondering if the health of my teeth took a hit from the 2 pregnancies, and whatever nutritional deficiencies I might have. Not in caveties, but in gum health. I really need to get back to the dentist.

Yes, probably nutritional in your case. You know how I feel about a vegan diet









Gum health is absolutely effected by vitamin C. You might want to start taking at least several grams/day of sodium ascorbate, with bioflavoniods. See thread of that title for more info. In case of infection, the recommended amount can be 10 grams or more. Divided into several doses. I found swishing the solution around the mouth and then swallowing is great for the gums.

Also this article is interesting:
*Vitamin C: The Invisible Toothbrush*
http://www.westonaprice.org/healthis...oothbrush.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

New research on enzyme for celiac disease:

http://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1341


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

Also just got "Children with Starving Brains" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.
Been wanting to find time to read both of those. Have the second one in my amazon cart right now but haven't ordered it. I find myself buying books and there they sit . . . unread and then I'll resell them and buy something else.









Right now I promised myself I would FINISH MT's book before taking up ANYTHING else!

Then again, when I DO have time to read here I sit on MDC . . .


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

yeah well with the server crashing every 5 minutes I'm getting TONS of reading done!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

You mean I could've been reading instead of window shopping on the hanna site?


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm new to this and I'm interested in how to heal mine & dd's gut. (We have yeast and she has allergies).

TIA


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Caedmyn, since you want to eat stuff that's not on the diet anyway, why not eat SCD legal stuff, like gelatin made with juice?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Caedmyn, since you want to eat stuff that's not on the diet anyway, why not eat SCD legal stuff, like gelatin made with juice?

I thought about eating SCD legal stuff but didn't really have any in the house...so I ended up eating Chipotle







I was really hungry. Oh well, I think I'm finally over the stomach bug and can go back to my anti-candida diet. I have to say, the food on the SCD was a lot more interesting than on this diet.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treehugginhippie*
I'm new to this and I'm interested in how to heal mine & dd's gut. (We have yeast and she has allergies).

TIA









First, I suggest reading the 'Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet' sticky at the top of this forum. It will give you some idea of where to go from there.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?

I believe it's not constipation until she isn't going. If she is still pooping, I think you're good.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

[Vitamin C is best taken several times a day b/c it washes out of the body fairly quickly, like an hour. DS and myself take it at every meal and snack.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that someone can help me with supplements. We are doing SCD (3 weeks now). I can find legal supplements for myself no problem but ds is only 2. He cannot take a capsule. I have legal vit C powder but I put it in his juice and then he won't drink his juice. He also needs a B-Complex. We take CLO for A and D and use Natural Calm for magnesium. We eat yogurt and cheese every day so I assume we are fine with calcium. Any recommendations for C and B-complex? TIA.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

And, one more question. I ordered Peptizyde and No Phenol from Houston. I ordered the capsules figuring I could break them apart and sprinkle a little bit on ds' food. Is this what other people are doing or should I have bought the bulk powder to use for ds? I am having a hard time believing that he will get enzymes that I am taking from my breastmilk. Is this really true? If so, then is there a need to give them to him directly? TIA.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it....

For lactose intolerant people, is the whey made from SCD yogurt (ie the liquid stuff leftover after dripping the yogurt) considered safe? I'm assuming this would still contain much less lactose than traditional whey (made from non-SCD yogurt etc). I use whey in my NT recipes and I'm just curious. Is the stuff leftover from SCD yogurt even still considered whey? Will it work for NT recipes?

Also, what is the reason for only using the dripped yogurt in the early stages of SCD?

And finally, anyone else on here using SCD or grain free/lactose free diets to "cure" autoimmunity? Just curious. I have autoimmune thyroid disease/Hashimoto's.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I've been reading the Power of Probiotics thread, and now I'm wondering if I should give DD some probiotic powder directly. I'm not taking any probiotics right now--I'll probably start some again in 2-3 weeks. She is still EBF, and I probably won't start her on solids until around Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I personally do not at all believe that allergies are genetic at all. Your DNA is influenced by your nutrition (and immune system that is passed on by your gut flora). More discussion of that in Allergies forum: "How Not to Have an Allergic Child" post.

The propensity to be sensitive to a substance ("be allergic") IS genetic and ruled by one's DNA. The biochemical pathways can be affected be nutrition. So, in genetic geekspeak, allergies are actually a manifestation of the genotype by environment interaction.

[dh interrupted my train of thought for a moment for some silly thing about nothing... gah...and i've got a cat traipsing across my keyboard]

while there might not be a genetic epidemic, I do think that "modern medicine" is messing with the natural evolutionary trajectory of our species.
let's use anaphylactic reactions as an example: a gene conferring an anaphylactic reaction would not have become fixed in a population because people who carried that gene would have died (e.g., if they were stung by a bee and had an anaphylactic reaction prior to the development of the epi-pen). today, however, such genes are floating around in the population (i.e., "fixed") precisely because we have circumvented natural selection in some regards.

[where was i going with this?...] because modern medicine has made it possible for many more people to make it to reproductive age (and in some cases to actually reproduce), we now have a lot of deleterious genes floating around in the gene pool that would have been purged in the past - probably the propensity to be allergic is one of those states...

in another thread, MT mentioned the pill. some past population genetic studies in mice show that mates are attracted to opposite MHC types (for optimal recombination of genetic material). a neat study using some college students (women on the pill and women not on the pill, some men, and some stinky t-shirts - can't remember the reference at all) showed that women on the pill were attracted to men of the same MHC type while women not on the pill were attracted to men of the opposite MHC type. so perhaps the pill is also screwing up our mate choice in addition to the plethora of issues that Ellen Grant wrote about.

and perhaps because we have so many people mating with the "wrong" MHC type, we have DNA not being recombined as it should, thereby exposing more of these genes for allergic propensity.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I have one of MT's recommended books on Vit. C by Thomas Levy on order at library, can't wait to get it.
http://www.patrickholford.com/conten...d_Content=1472

The other one by Steve Hickey is available by download:
http://www.lulu.com/content/55277

Also just got "_Children with Starving Brains_" finally at library. I've flipped thru it a dozen times at bookstore and figured I should just read the darned thing.

Of the 2 vitamin C books, I've read the Hickey one and wasn't so impressed (it struck me as being very repetitive). But then I got overwhelmed with vit. C reading, so the other one is collecting dust.

My mom saw a clip on TV with Michael Lyon, promoting his book "Is Your Child's Brain Starving? Food Not Drugs for Life and Learning" (ISBN 0968516858) so that's on my list.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Another baby poop question...DD's poop has always been pretty liquidy--what I assume is normal EBF poop. But since I started this new diet, her poop is actually formed. Is that a sign of constipation?

probably TMI but since you asked... once he hit about 5 months, ds would only have a bowle mvmt every 3-4 days (while he was EBF)... and then it usually was a huge explosion of a peanut butter-y mess. it gradually became thicker as he presumably became more efficient at digesting milk. when he started solids, it gradually became more solid and better formed (as well-formed as it can be when it is stuck in a diaper). now he is pretty regular - he has a bowel mvmt when it is least convenient for us to change him.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've been reading the Power of Probiotics thread, and now I'm wondering if I should give DD some probiotic powder directly. I'm not taking any probiotics right now--I'll probably start some again in 2-3 weeks. She is still EBF, and I probably won't start her on solids until around Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months.

my ND recommends probiotics as the only supplement for breastfed babies... he recommends (Country Life?) Maxi Babydophilus ( because HFS carries that brand and he's used to dealing with his Amish patients who aren't on the grid but who shop at that store from time to time).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Tammy, Pecanbread.com has a list of SCD legal supplements, many aimed at kids. Be forewarned, though, they aren't cheap!

Oh, and yeah, I'm doing SCD in part for my PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), which isn't officially an autoimmune disease, but it sure acts like one.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wisdomkeeper*
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I can't find it....

For lactose intolerant people, is the whey made from SCD yogurt (ie the liquid stuff leftover after dripping the yogurt) considered safe? I'm assuming this would still contain much less lactose than traditional whey (made from non-SCD yogurt etc). I use whey in my NT recipes and I'm just curious. Is the stuff leftover from SCD yogurt even still considered whey? Will it work for NT recipes?

Also, what is the reason for only using the dripped yogurt in the early stages of SCD?

And finally, anyone else on here using SCD or grain free/lactose free diets to "cure" autoimmunity? Just curious. I have autoimmune thyroid disease/Hashimoto's.



SCD whey is lactose-free (supposed to be).The sugars should be broken down to glucose and galactose. It works in NT recipes because it's not the lactose that works but the lactic acid producing bacteria.

I think most of us have autoimmune issues. For example eczema is an auto-immune disease... that's my DD's & my problem.







So is asthma, allergies, fybromyalgia, arthiritis etc, etc, etc...)


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
while there might not be a genetic epidemic, I do think that "modern medicine" is messing with the natural evolutionary trajectory of our species.
let's use anaphylactic reactions as an example: a gene conferring an anaphylactic reaction would not have become fixed in a population because people who carried that gene would have died

This is exactly what I believe/understand about the epidemic of allergies. We are reproducing them by the increased survival of these "maladaptive" genetics. Certainly, I believe that there is an environmental component that exacerbates the degree of malady.

I can't comment about the T-shirt research. But, I have heard of similar pheno-attraction documented in humans and obviously in other animals.

Pat

Btw, I loved your train of thoughts interjected into your thoughts.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
SCD whey is lactose-free (supposed to be).The sugars should be broken down to glucose and galactose. It works in NT recipes because it's not the lactose that works but the lactic acid producing bacteria.

I think most of us have autoimmune issues. For example eczema is an auto-immune disease... that's my DD's & my problem.







So is asthma, allergies, fybromyalgia, arthiritis etc, etc, etc...)

Thanks! Good to know that it will work in NT recipes.

In my question about autoimmunity, I meant to mention that I was wondering about those without direct GI symptoms, but were using SCD to heal. Most people look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I'm using a diet geared towards Crohn's and Autism to heal my Thyroid issues, LOL! I didn't realize eczema was autoimmune, thanks for sharing that.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
while there might not be a genetic epidemic, I do think that "modern medicine" is messing with the natural evolutionary trajectory of our species.
let's use anaphylactic reactions as an example: a gene conferring an anaphylactic reaction would not have become fixed in a population because people who carried that gene would have died (e.g., if they were stung by a bee and had an anaphylactic reaction prior to the development of the epi-pen). today, however, such genes are floating around in the population (i.e., "fixed") precisely because we have circumvented natural selection in some regards.


I approach this from a slightly different angle when looking at food allergies. I don't think those of us with food allergies should have been weeded out of the gene pool, so to speak. Perhaps humans just weren't built to function on the high grain and dairy diets of today? Once those of us with "allergies" return to hunter-gatherer type of diets, many of us are able to heal and function normally again. I see the evolutionary odd balls as the ones that evolved to actually be able to digest dairy, grains, etc. Those mutations allowed them to digest these "new" foods while the majority remained mostly unable to digest them without incurring health issues (ie sensitivities and allergies).

One example of this is lactose intolerance. Most people lose their ability to make lactase (therefore allowing them to digest lactose) shortly after weaning. When you look at traditional cultures, most did not drink milk, but rather consumed things like kefir, yogurt, cheese, etc. Perhaps it is because those products are lower in lactose and people instintuallly knew that they could not consume milk in its natural state. At some point in our history, some people, called "persisters" hung on to the ability to make lactase for longer and longer periods of time. This allowed milk to become a part of the human diet. It is estimated that only 25-50% of the population have this mutation to continue producing lactase after weaning from mother's milk. Somewhere along the way we forgot the wisdom of those traditional cultures that knew it needed to be fermented, cultured, etc. Most of us do not have the genes to drink milk.

When I look around my friends and family, I see endless examples of the damage caused by high grain, or high lactose diets. I think more people than we can even imagine have these food sensitivities. Most of us just weren't built to consume this stuff.

Just my humble ramblings......

(edited for clarification)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am losing hope that strict SCD is going to help me. It has been 3.5 weeks and I can't say I see huge improvements, or actually any, for that matter. Before starting I had pretty much gotten over my constipation, which seems to be a huge issue for me. Now after starting, it is back. It has eased up a bit, but not enough. Gas in general is better, but that was also better before starting SCD. Bloating remains to be quite problematic. It is _alittle_ better, but I can still have bad days. When I do my nightly stomach massage, I still feel something "squishy" where my large intestine starts. Like it creaps, and you can actually hear it.

I also think the huge amounts of water I am drinking to help with the constipation make me sometimes nausous or just feel bloated.

I did up the amount of magnesium I was taking. Problem is that I have 30 mg pills, so to get anywhere close to 1000mg...well, that is taking lots of pills. Trying though.

And since yesterday I am feeling quite tired/low energy late morning. Yesterday I actually took a nap (not usual for me). Then had a lot of problems getting to sleep (also not usual for me).

Hmm, I did start taking No Fenol and Peptizyde this week, in addition to Zyme Prime. Related to any of this?







:


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Moonshine, are you taking vitamin C? Especially with the large amounts of water, this water-soluable vitamin is washed out quickly and easily. You need to take it throughout the day. It also helps with constipation, fatigue and sleep issues. I try for 2000mg a day when not sick. I up it to 9000mg *in divided doses* (in 24 hours) at the first hint of sniffles.

The magnesium is easiest to take as a liquid formula. MT recommends Dolomite, if I recall correctly. We are using MilQ, a brand with about equal amounts of Calcium and Magnesium together. Calcium helps sleep too. I actually find Vit. C late at night interferes with my sleep though.

Not sure if this is SCD legal or not, but Gripe Water with just fennel and ginger helps bloating/gassiness.

Pat


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

moonshine - I just wanted to say that I am feeling the same way. I am on day 25 (3+ weeks) and I don't feel much different. I still have major brain fog, sluggish thinking and I still have mild constipation (probably from those darn bananas). I am feeling very discourage because I really thought this was the answer I have been looking for. I know everyone is different in how long their die-off symtoms last but I haven't really heard anyone say more than three weeks. I ordered enzymes yesterday and was hoping that if I started taking those it would help. However, I see that you ARE taking them already and things aren't improving for you.









Here is what I was thinking about today. I honestly believe that eating SCD or NT is THE way to go, no doubt. But maybe there is another component to this that I am missing. I started reading The Mood Cure (www.moodcure.com) and that is making sense that I am lacking some important aminos. The book also has me thinking about my thyroid issues and that maybe I am not being properly treated for that (currently taking Levoxyl because my endo refused to give me Armour).

Just thinking outloud but I will be following your progress.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

I know it wasn't intended for me but thanks scubamama. I was just off to order my supplements now.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

In case this helps anyone, I wanted to post that I tried cow SCD yogurt again, this time with Peptizyde and Zyme Prime. Had a _much_ more minor reaction, though enough that I'm trying goat yogurt instead. I didn't drip the cow yogurt, so I'll try that when I'm ready to try cow again. Anyway, I was surprised by what a difference the Houston's made versus GoL (which were never legal anyway







: )

I'm very discouraged by the discussion about the constipating effect of apples. That explains how constipated I am, despite 10-12 servings of F&V daily. But it's so darn counterintuitive, the things just _sing_ fiber.....


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wisdomkeeper*
I approach this from a slightly different angle when looking at food allergies. I don't think those of us with food allergies should have been weeded out of the gene pool, so to speak. Perhaps humans just weren't built to function on the high grain and dairy diets of today? Once those of us with "allergies" return to hunter-gatherer type of diets, many of us are able to heal and function normally again. I see the evolutionary odd balls as the ones that evolved to actually be able to digest dairy, grains, etc. Those mutations allowed them to digest these "new" foods while the majority remained mostly unable to digest them without incurring health issues (ie sensitivities and allergies).

One example of this is lactose intolerance. Most people lose their ability to make lactase (therefore allowing them to digest lactose) shortly after weaning. When you look at traditional cultures, most did not drink milk, but rather consumed things like kefir, yogurt, cheese, etc. Perhaps it is because those products are lower in lactose and people instintuallly knew that they could not consume milk in its natural state. At some point in our history, some people, called "persisters" hung on to the ability to make lactase for longer and longer periods of time. This allowed milk to become a part of the human diet. It is estimated that only 25-50% of the population have this mutation to continue producing lactase after weaning from mother's milk. Somewhere along the way we forgot the wisdom of those traditional cultures that knew it needed to be fermented, cultured, etc. Most of us do not have the genes to drink milk.

When I look around my friends and family, I see endless examples of the damage caused by high grain, or high lactose diets. I think more people than we can even imagine have these food sensitivities. Most of us just weren't built to consume this stuff.

Just my humble ramblings......

(edited for clarification)

It's great to read these ramblings... here's mine. My theory.
I believe in the Bible so I belive God gave us both plants and animals to eat. There are a lot of references to bread as the staple food, as well as milk. So I don't think the problem is grains or milk per se. I'm sure God didn't want to poison the people by leading them to the land of the milk and honey, and Jesus by feeding them bread and fish. He also referred to himself as the bread of life.
So the problem, IMHO is the way these foods are prepared. I think unfermented milk is less of a problem if it's consumed raw. Of course fermentation makes everything more digestable.
I'm sure the bread of old times is nothing like what we see in the stores today. I think it's closer to the NT way of eating grains.
Also, since we don't eat a lot of foods raw our enzymes are depleted sooner, so more people are lactose intol. for example.
Another problem is addiction. I think a lot allergies are due to being addicted/eating too much of one or a few things. Proverbs says somewhere that it's not good to eat too much honey because you'll vomit. Something like that.
And processed, chemically altered non-foods. Again, the pancreas is stressed and enzymes are depleted.
Not to mention fats... God gave the Isrealites the "fat of the land". Fat is prized in the Bible.
So bring on the fat.








Just a few of my ramblings...


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I was thinking why so many of us have mixed results on SCD... then I stumbled upon this website:
http://members.tripod.com/mueller_ra...ndium/scd.html

It's a discussion of SCD stuff. I don't know who this guy is, I'll do some investigation. He is doing an amplifyed SCD. I think it's worth checking it out. It's just question and answers. It addresses honey, fruits, dairy, kefir, Houston enzymes and many more!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

:

That is how I feel at the moment.

I never had diarrhea, except for a few days when I was taking psyllium husks to combate the constipation. Is this maybe not the diet for me to be doing if it is primarily to fix diarrehea??? Oh, and, no honey???







I can't take that away. I do only do raw, and try not to get too much.







:

Making Jane's cashew butter cake. Was supposed to be bread, but I have to retype the recipe because this is the second time I added honey before realizing I shouldn't have.

Thanks for the heads up about the supplements, Scubamama. No, I haven't been taking vit c. Looked at the store after Jane's post the other day, but could only find ascorbic acid. Think I will just order online.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I don't think the SCD is just for diarrhea. I know some of the people on this board who have been helped by it didn't have diarrhea issues.

IMO, if you aren't seeing some positive results in a month to 6 weeks, the SCD probably isn't going to help you. But you have to look at the whole situation--if you're still having die off symptoms, I think that's a good thing because it means the diet is actually doing something for you. So in that case maybe you would consider sticking it out a bit longer to see if there are any improvements. Constipation is actually a good thing (sort of) because it means your gut flora is changing.

Moonshine & Spencersmom--do you guys feel you have yeast issues? I'm beginning to wonder if maybe yeast issues are hard to fix with the SCD, and tend to require a more restricted diet. I've been doing an anti-candida diet for about two weeks (after 2 months on the SCD w/very little progress), and while it's too early to really say if it is helping me or DD, I feel better about it than I did about the SCD. I've had more die-off symptoms with this diet than I ever did with the SCD (not necessarily fun, but at least I know something is happening with the symptoms).

Anyhow, just my thoughts on all this...


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't think the SCD is just for diarrhea. I know some of the people on this board who have been helped by it didn't have diarrhea issues.

Well, that is good news.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
IMO, if you aren't seeing some positive results in a month to 6 weeks, the SCD probably isn't going to help you. But you have to look at the whole situation--if you're still having die off symptoms, I think that's a good thing because it means the diet is actually doing something for you. So in that case maybe you would consider sticking it out a bit longer to see if there are any improvements. Constipation is actually a good thing (sort of) because it means your gut flora is changing.

I get what you are saying, but I had constipation before. Well, it had improved right before starting SCD and now it is worse.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Moonshine & Spencersmom--do you guys feel you have yeast issues? I'm beginning to wonder if maybe yeast issues are hard to fix with the SCD, and tend to require a more restricted diet. I've been doing an anti-candida diet for about two weeks (after 2 months on the SCD w/very little progress), and while it's too early to really say if it is helping me or DD, I feel better about it than I did about the SCD. I've had more die-off symptoms with this diet than I ever did with the SCD (not necessarily fun, but at least I know something is happening with the symptoms).

No, I really do not think this is yeast at all. I also did not have any huge die-off symtoms. I attributed that to being grainfree prior to starting. But


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Been on SCD for 1 week now and was feeling great until the crimson flood came this afternoon







Anyone else experience a dramatic low when this happens?

BTW, still working on my supplements. Is there a legal iron supplement? I'm still having a really hard time keeping my iron levels in check just through food.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
... taking psyllium husks to combate the constipation.

I assume psyllium is SCD legal, because I think I wanna get some







I have a BM everyday, but I am definately forcing somewhat (insync with bowel contractions only) because without a BM, I hardly have an appetite (I still eat, but I end up feeling sick from the stuffed feeling).

Argh! I need to really reduce the amount of bananas, apple sauce and cheese I'm having, since I've heard/feel they're the reasons for very firm, diff. to pass stools. They're a large part of my diet currently though!

GTR!


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Re: Nature Calm

Back on this subject again!

Thanks Annikate and Jane for your responses the last time, but I have one question... what mag. compound is in the Nature calm?

I believe Nature Calm has the most easily absorbed form of mag.

I'm agnoizing over buying this stuff because I'm in Canada. Perhaps I just need to commit to the small bottle, and if it works for us, then later buy the larger one.

Sorry for thinking out loud. I just agnoize about spending money, because as it is my food budget has just exploded!


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
taking vit c. Looked at the store after Jane's post the other day, but could only find ascorbic acid. Think I will just order online.

What kind of vitamin C supplement should we be taking? I am confused because you said not ascorbic acid. I did not know there were other choices. Enlighten me please.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just a quick update, it appears that my taking enzymes (Source Naturals, and Kirkman DPP IV) is making ds's nose bleed, because I laid off them for a few days, and his nosebleeds stopped, then I started them again a day or so ago and his nose bleed like a faucet today. Maybe Houston's would be gentler?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Psyllium husks: no, not SCD legal. I took it when I was dealing with this #$^%^% constipation (like not going for days, bloated like 6 months pregnant) and my midwife thought I had IBS, and recommended it. I think it was fine for me to clear my system for a few days, but it definitely gave me diarrehea in a bad way. Siana, wern't you having diarrehea problems before SCD?

Vit C: per MT (Momtezuma Tuatara) sodium ascorbate is the one to take. There is a problem with one kind of vit c, and I don't think it is ascorbic acid, but I was looking for the recommended kind.

Iron: have you tried cooking with cast iron pots?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I am losing hope that strict SCD is going to help me. It has been 3.5 weeks and I can't say I see huge improvements, or actually any, for that matter. Before starting I had pretty much gotten over my constipation, which seems to be a huge issue for me. Now after starting, it is back. It has eased up a bit, but not enough. Gas in general is better, but that was also better before starting SCD. Bloating remains to be quite problematic. It is _alittle_ better, but I can still have bad days. When I do my nightly stomach massage, I still feel something "squishy" where my large intestine starts. Like it creaps, and you can actually hear it.

I also think the huge amounts of water I am drinking to help with the constipation make me sometimes nausous or just feel bloated.

I did up the amount of magnesium I was taking. Problem is that I have 30 mg pills, so to get anywhere close to 1000mg...well, that is taking lots of pills. Trying though.

And since yesterday I am feeling quite tired/low energy late morning. Yesterday I actually took a nap (not usual for me). Then had a lot of problems getting to sleep (also not usual for me).

Hmm, I did start taking No Fenol and Peptizyde this week, in addition to Zyme Prime. Related to any of this?







:

Water dilutes stomach acid and bile. You really need to watch it and not drink alot one hour before, during, and one hour after meals, ideally.

I saw a lot of hyperness with Peptizyde, gave myself severe anxiety and insomnia. Had to back off for several days and restart very slowly.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've been reading the Power of Probiotics thread, and now I'm wondering if I should give DD some probiotic powder directly. I'm not taking any probiotics right now--I'll probably start some again in 2-3 weeks. She is still EBF, and I probably won't start her on solids until around Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months.

Yes, there is a dairy free Natren Life Start which is all bifidus for EBF babes. Or use the dairy if that is not a concern.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wisdomkeeper*
I use whey in my NT recipes and I'm just curious. Is the stuff leftover from SCD yogurt even still considered whey? Will it work for NT recipes?

Also, what is the reason for only using the dripped yogurt in the early stages of SCD?

And finally, anyone else on here using SCD or grain free/lactose free diets to "cure" autoimmunity? Just curious. I have autoimmune thyroid disease/Hashimoto's.

Yes will definitely work in NT recipes, it makes great fermented veggies (roasted red pepper is my fave).

Dripped yogurt is MUCH less strong in probiotics. The whey contains a great deal.

I know nothing about Hashimoto's but I cured interstitial cystitis which is an autoimmune disease of supposedly unknown origin. However, I believe it is partly due to urine metabolites of yeast/bacteria wearing away the bladder lining in addition to weakened immune system.


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks for your response moonshine









Yes, I has d. back in Jan before going gluten-free. Then I had loose stools when I wasn't on SCD (but still gluten-free). This is my third time going on SCD -- the first two didn't last more than a month







).

As for my current situation, I'm quite sure I know where the hard/firm stools are coming from, but I'm trying to take it easy introducing new foods, because that was one of my mistakes I made the previous times. My BM situation isn't really _that_ bad, but I suppose I'm just prone to getting anxious about it... need to nip that right in the bud!

I haven't been cooking in cast iron because I don't have vegetable shortening to season the pan! We wouldn't use shortening for anything else, so I just don't want to go buy 2 cups worth... just waiting to take some from my MIL's, when I do get around to going to her house again! I'm pretty sad eh?!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Water dilutes stomach acid and bile. You really need to watch it and not drink alot one hour before, during, and one hour after meals, ideally.

That'll be so hard to do because I eat very frequently now, but thanks for the reminder... I had forgotten about this.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Umm, I have never used vegetable shortening to season my cast iron pan. Think I must have just used whatever oil we had around.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Any ideas what's causing this:

I've had a tendency toward fatigue/tiredness for a long while now, and I think a main reason for this is low iron levels BUT, I also have trouble relaxing and falling asleep. My brain just keeps running even though my body needs shutting down. (I've had anxious/paranoid tendencies for years now, but a couple of years ago, never had issues falling asleep).

I figure these symptoms could just indicate general imbalance since my body is quite depleted from the malabsorbtion issues.

Should I get my levels tested (if so, which vitamins/minerals) before I supplement, or do I just figure out doses by trial and error alone?

I really hope these questions don't sound silly. I've been feeling very lost today, very much like before starting SCD (it's only been a week, but what a glorious week it was!)


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Well then moonshine, I'm just going to have to do that as well


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

So... I'm wondering what do you think happens to the babies who are breastfed by a mother who has leaky gut?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I am combining SCD with suggestions from other anti-yeast diet, like "Feast without Yeast", "Yeast Connection", food combination (although, there isn't much to worry here with SCD), acid-alkaline diet within legal limits of SCD foods. I've used digestive enzyme with good and bad results (I'm planning to re-start the low dose again.) It seems my DD, age 4 is healing (?), since she can eat many foods that she could not eat before (including a little of wheat, dairy and sugar, but who knows how much she can tolerate before she build intolerance.)

I also am wondering if anybody has tried the anti-yeast, over the counter medications: AZO Yeast, and the likes?


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
I also am wondering if anybody has tried the anti-yeast, over the counter medications: AZO Yeast, and the likes?

I haven't tried any of those, but I have tried Pao d'Arco tea (not SCD legal, though). I drink one cup per day, first thing in the morning. A very interesting thing happened: any body odor that I had went away completely! My deodorant would work for 6-12 hours and then I would start to smell, sometimes sooner. Now, it's been over 24 hours since I took a shower and my pits are as fresh as fresh can be.







:

I stopped taking it for a week or so (I was sick and drinking other teas), and the smell came back gradually.

I don't know how this relates to the yeast problem I have--let's see if I remember to do the spit test when I wake up and see if I still test positive.

_edited to add: My 100th post is about BO, that's one to remember!_


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Any ideas what's causing this:

I've had a tendency toward fatigue/tiredness for a long while now, and I think a main reason for this is low iron levels BUT, I also have trouble relaxing and falling asleep. My brain just keeps running even though my body needs shutting down. (I've had anxious/paranoid tendencies for years now, but a couple of years ago, never had issues falling asleep).

I figure these symptoms could just indicate general imbalance since my body is quite depleted from the malabsorbtion issues.

Should I get my levels tested (if so, which vitamins/minerals) before I supplement, or do I just figure out doses by trial and error alone?

I really hope these questions don't sound silly. I've been feeling very lost today, very much like before starting SCD (it's only been a week, but what a glorious week it was!)

Sounds exactly like my symptoms.









I think it is a combination of nutritional imbalances and toxins from yeast/bacteria. This sounds silly as well to someone who hasn't researched it, but I can tell you any increase in my anxiety and insomnia was pinpointed perfectly to my digestive symptoms.

I'll ping Amanda too, she might have more to add re: testing.

Did you see that study I posted in this thread early about B vits, zinc and mag. Those would be good ones to start with. And that study talks alot about fermentation in the gut producing ethanol. Which is alcohol. Yes you can be an alcoholic on sugar and grains. It's quite fascinating.

And alcohol disrupts sleep horribly. I remember when I used to drink (like one or two glasses of wine, once a week, not that much) and literally woke up 5x those nights, and was utterly exhausted. But then again, I could see similar symptoms when I had thrush and binged on sugar for example.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
So... I'm wondering what do you think happens to the babies who are breastfed by a mother who has leaky gut?

From my reading and opinion, anywhere from mild intestinal flora upset to serious dysbiosis to full on immune dysfunction (autism, multiple food allergies, etc). Remembering that leaky gut also includes disrupted nutrition as well as gut flora imbalance.

There are obviously other factors. And this is again NOT to say that BF isn't 100x better than the alternatives. After all, my DS got way worse after weaning when I was convinced his problems before were all me. Well they were, but the power of BM superceded that. (Also I was working on my issues at the time too.)

I say this so people can make the connection to their problems and their babes. Not to denigrate BF'ing in any way.

Sorry I'm sensitive right now. Mentioned this to someone IRL and I won't do *that* again!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Been on SCD for 1 week now and was feeling great until the crimson flood came this afternoon







Anyone else experience a dramatic low when this happens?

Yes I do ... I think it's nutritionally related but haven't gotten my finger on it yet. It's probably one of the last of my symptoms that are still there. I just want to sleep 13 hours/night when AF arrives and that is so not possible.


----------



## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Any ideas what's causing this:

I've had a tendency toward fatigue/tiredness for a long while now, and I think a main reason for this is low iron levels BUT, I also have trouble relaxing and falling asleep. My brain just keeps running even though my body needs shutting down. (I've had anxious/paranoid tendencies for years now, but a couple of years ago, never had issues falling asleep).

I figure these symptoms could just indicate general imbalance since my body is quite depleted from the malabsorbtion issues.

Should I get my levels tested (if so, which vitamins/minerals) before I supplement, or do I just figure out doses by trial and error alone?

I really hope these questions don't sound silly. I've been feeling very lost today, very much like before starting SCD (it's only been a week, but what a glorious week it was!)

You might look into getting your adrenals and thyroid tested.

If I understand correctly, when your adrenals get out of whack it can result in a pattern like you describe (fatigue but difficulty falling asleep). I know I have some adrenal problems (although getting better by eating NT) and that's exactly how I was feeling.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes I do ... I think it's nutritionally related but haven't gotten my finger on it yet. It's probably one of the last of my symptoms that are still there. I just want to sleep 13 hours/night when AF arrives and that is so not possible.


My first thought is the magnesium depletion related to the hormonal changes with menstruation. Magnesium levels are lowest during menstration and just before. Magnesium utilization is increased by the presence of estrogen. And even a *lack* of sleep is associated with depleting magnesium further. Magnesium is necessary for utilization of many hormones, which affect our moods and sleep cycles. Iron, too, is depleted, of course.

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic274.htm
http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic274.htm

Pat, going to take some magnesium!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

That's interesting Pat ... maybe my mag. "to bowel tolerance" dosage needs to be increased around AF. Or just in general, I've done the same dose for a while now. This says to me I don't have much stored in bones for a reserve I guess.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Any ideas what's causing this:

I've had a tendency toward fatigue/tiredness for a long while now, and I think a main reason for this is low iron levels BUT, I also have trouble relaxing and falling asleep. My brain just keeps running even though my body needs shutting down. (I've had anxious/paranoid tendencies for years now, but a couple of years ago, never had issues falling asleep).

I had a terrible problem with this in graduate school. It got better when my diet improved, but it didn't really disappear until about a year ago. it could be a lot of things, but you might find some immediate relief from 5-HTP (which your body converts to serotonin and then melotonin). People start with doses of about 100 mg and take it with B-6. A sign of low B-6 is inability to recall your dreams at night. Better still is a custom amino acid blend that could be cooked up for you after blood work at Metametrix (blood spot amino acid), Doctor's Data, or Genova Diagnostics. Get the blood panel (plasma), not urine. The aminos would help with the sleep, anxiety, and paranoia. The lab work is in the neighborhood of $125 so some people just use a trial and error approach with specific aminos. Go to the PPD board here. There's a thread called "true natural remedy" on the first page now and you'll see a lot of talk about aminos.

Next step is all of the nutrients Jane mentioned plus Omega-3s. All are related to depression. Without fixing those, you could be on aminos or antidepressants for a long time. You can have a red blood cell mineral panel done at any of the labs I mention above. It includes iron, zinc, magnesium, and several others (as well as some toxic metals). If you are not taking a B-complex and a good source of Omega-3, add those now. Pretty much all of us are deficient in the good oils and most of us need more B vitamins.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*

I've had a tendency toward fatigue/tiredness for a long while now, and I think a main reason for this is low iron levels BUT, I also have trouble relaxing and falling asleep. My brain just keeps running even though my body needs shutting down. (I've had anxious/paranoid tendencies for years now, but a couple of years ago, never had issues falling asleep).


I had very similar symptoms. I got a live blood analysis done which showed yeast and parasites in my blood. The person who did it recommended I take 300 mg of magnesium at night to help me sleep, which does help. I actually like magnesium tablets or capsules better than the powder Natural Calm. For me they work just as well and they are more convenient-you have to mix the powder w/ boiling water, then cool it down enough to drink it.

My naturopath suggested Vit B/folic acid shots to help with the daytime tiredness, digestive issues, immune system etc. They have really made a big difference in my level of energy. She explained the B-vitamins are co-factors for many enzymatic reactions and when we get depleted we often can't absorb enough from taking them orally, if our digestve enzymes aren't working as effectively because of the Vit B depletion.

I love the Vit C and Multivitamins from this company.
http://www.lifestar.com/Pages/intropage.html
They are expensive so when I run out I try to make do with Emergen-C and other Vit C tablets I have, but I usually end up getting sick, so I buy these again! While taking them, during the past nine months or so, I have not gotten sick.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

JaneS. I thought you'd reply to my inner thought about Leaky Gut mom. I am happy to not eat grain, dairy or sugar for the rest of my life, but need a glimpse of hope that my kids are going to get better. I was looking at the embryology where the brain and the gut formation happen at the same stage of development. I wish I knew about Leaky Gut before I concieved







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Sarah, what kind of mag capsules do you take? I tried one brand which did nothing for me and I can't really tolerate the Natural Calm.

Amanda, I had the exact same problem while in grad school. I remember falling asleep some nights thinking about a particular point I was writing about or researching and when waking up in the morning continuing the thought . . .







: Scary. I think it was a combo of poor diet, stress, and obviously nutritional deficits. I felt like crap much of the time back then too.

*B12 Question:*
Before I started taking my B complex I took a sublingual B12 which REALLY helped me (particularly during AF). I've stopped taking the sublingual since I got the B complex but feel like I really still need it. Can one take too much B12?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
*B12 Question:*
Before I started taking my B complex I took a sublingual B12 which REALLY helped me (particularly during AF). I've stopped taking the sublingual since I got the B complex but feel like I really still need it. Can one take too much B12?

You can take too much of anything but with the Bs it would take a long time before that would be an issue. I would try it and see how you feel, particularly since you've had good experience with it in the past.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

How do you feel better with taking B12? Specific symtoms.

I don't know if it is because of AF, re earlier discussion, but I am so incredibly exhausted today, it is a bit shocking. My night was short and interrupted, but many of my nights are at least interrupted. I finished all my magnesium, so must reread to see all the recommended supplements and order. My kitchen counter is looking like a pharmacy.

Question on CLO dosage: when you say 1-2T, is that a real tablespoon, or just your soup spoon? I think that my spoons are small, so am pretty sure I am not getting a 1:1 ratio. Wondering if I should up my CLO. I still have red bumps on the back of my arms. I realize that could be from other things too, but was hoping the CLO would take care of it. Course, I am also still taking Zoloft, but I don't feel well enough to cut back on that. Guess I need to read up about aminos. Although the last time I tried 5HTP with inositol, I didn't find it made much of a difference.

Ok, nuf rambling.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I don't know if it is because of AF, re earlier discussion, but I am so incredibly exhausted today, it is a bit shocking.

Ummm...could it be from parenting a 4.5 y/o AND a 2.5 year old?







:

Pat, tired with one child.







(especially on short nights of sleep) But, I am getting old.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
How do you feel better with taking B12? Specific symtoms.
MUCH more energy - like an espresso boost.









I used to take it mid-afternoon when I needed it most. I think it is b/c it is a sublingual that it works so well.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
MUCH more energy - like an espresso boost.









I used to take it mid-afternoon when I needed it most. I think it is b/c it is a sublingual that it works so well.

Sounds excellent.







What brand do you take?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Ummm...could it be from parenting a 4.5 y/o AND a 2.5 year old?







:

Pat, tired with one child.







(especially on short nights of sleep) But, I am getting old.

















The 2.5 year old definitely cut my sleep short last night. I actually didn't do that much parenting today -- I was working. However, I did 4 massages, so not like doing nothing.







But I was ready to fall asleep ON my first client. That is the super tired I am talking about.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

NOW! Brand.

I actually have a NOW! sublingual B complex on order too - - I never really do well w/capsules of any kind.







Don't know why.

Oh, an btw, they're not SCD legal.







Don't remember if you're doing that diet or not.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I am working my way through the mountain of information (healing the gut cheat sheet and various SCD websites).







:

I have a yeast problem and have probably had it for years. I have been of SCD for 3 weeks and am seeing signs of improvement. What also led me to the diet is DS's eczema (it is about 80% better than before the diet) and here I have my first question. What does it mean that everytime I try to introduce a fruit to my diet DS's eczema flairs up (he is BF with a few bites of my food here and there.) He has reacted to apples, pears, peaches and blueberries, all in cooked and mashed form, bananas seem to be ok, I only have 1 a day. Is it the yeast flairing up from the sugar? I could just skip fruit for awhile.

Quote:

aneS. I thought you'd reply to my inner thought about Leaky Gut mom. I am happy to not eat grain, dairy or sugar for the rest of my life, but need a glimpse of hope that my kids are going to get better. I was looking at the embryology where the brain and the gut formation happen at the same stage of development. I wish I knew about Leaky Gut before I concieved
I paid little attention to my body before getting pregnant. Oh the things I wish I could take back! Pregnancy and motherhood have brought me to places I never expected and I hope that by healing my gut I will give Nolan the best possible start that I can.

Quote:

I haven't tried any of those, but I have tried Pao d'Arco tea (not SCD legal, though). I drink one cup per day, first thing in the morning. A very interesting thing happened: any body odor that I had went away completely! My deodorant would work for 6-12 hours and then I would start to smell, sometimes sooner. Now, it's been over 24 hours since I took a shower and my pits are as fresh as fresh can be.

I stopped taking it for a week or so (I was sick and drinking other teas), and the smell came back gradually.

I don't know how this relates to the yeast problem I have--let's see if I remember to do the spit test when I wake up and see if I still test positive.
I am always smelly, in fact DH makes fun of me for having smelly pits. He never wears deoderant and he never stinks. What is the spit test?

One more question, does sparkling water deplete vitamins and minerals?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh, I missed that about smelly pits. I used to never have a problem with this. Not even need to use deoderant regularly. Recently I have found that I can now _stink_.







Didn't realize that I might be able to do something about it!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm not sure what is going on. DD has a rash on her front. All pimply bumps. The naturopath thought it might be yeast. Now it is on her back to.

I've got itchy ears, itchy eyes, itchy







you get the idea. My yeast is back and bad. I haven't changed anything. We are still very strict on the diet. I am doing some keifer and have slacked on getting the co at every meal but still.... I'm thinking we need to go more drastic and cut fruit. But I don't wanna!







I've got so little to look forward to in life and the ice cream we make every couple of weeks is one of those things. That and the Jennies cookies.







Perhaps it is just too much honey...

Sigh.

I hate to think that all this effort and it still isn't doing anything for our yeast.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Another question...

I made my first batch of yogurt in the Salton. After 24 hrs I went to put it in the fridge and I tested the temp and it said 122. Does the batch of yogurt need to be thrown away? The thermometer is new too and it could be off? The yogurt had a nice consistency.

Quote:

I'm thinking we need to go more drastic and cut fruit. But I don't wanna! I've got so little to look forward to in life and the ice cream we make every couple of weeks is one of those things. That and the Jennies cookies. Perhaps it is just too much honey...
I hear you!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty, I don't think it's doing much for dd's yeast issue either.








I sent off her stool sample yesterday so I want to wait and be sure it IS yeast we're battling and if so, we'll need to try a new route. There is no way I could cut fruit from her diet totally.

What did your naturopath suggest to do for it?

Oh, and what are Jennie's cookies? Is this something good I've been missing out on?


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: Stinky pits*

I've been hanging out on Natural Home and Body Care and there many use this regimine:

Baking soda to wash their pits
Rinse with diluted Apple cider vinegar (3:1 water:ACV).
Rinse ACV and pat dry
Apply (generously for acute odour issue) The Crystal
Reapply crystal when necessary


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks Jane, Peri Patetic, Pat, Amanda and Sarah for your responses.

I have my work set out now, don't I!







I need to read your messages at least a few times over to register the info.. Amanda, I checked out that thread you mentioned, and inositol sounds very promising. I have no idea what 5-HTP is either.







:

Peri, you wouldn't imagine how many people have told me in the last week to go get my thyroid tested. Getting these tests are going to be no small feat because I don't have a family Dr.. I use the drop-in clinic, and I can only hope they'll order these tests without much fuss, but knowing how the medical system around here is, they'll call me in over and over again for no reason before I get the tests (I think Drs. here get paid a flat fee for every visit, so they love wasting time







: ) Anyway, gotta get them done to figure out what are the other underlying causes for my issues.

*Re: Vitamin B12*

I have a prescription for the injection (I asked the Dr. for it, since he suggested pills, and I knew tht wouldn't be very effective at this time for me).

After I get that, do I keep taking the Freeda Vitamin B-complex, or should I lay-off for a while?

The Dr. I saw suggested that I shouldn't be taking them, but what do all of you think? I don't really trust what he said because he said aside from low iron and B12, I was fine







)

GTR!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

New development in DD...
Poor thing she never gets a break.
Now she has a vaginal? discharge which is greenish-yellowish, just a hint of color and mucousy, with an odd smell. I wonder if it's yeast, or UTI? I'll try to get an appointment tomorrow.... just to get tested and know what it is. If it's UTI, how can I treat it w/o abx? If it's yeast, can I put yogurt there, or TTO, also is it OK to use Nystatin if they prescribe it? I suspect/almost sure she does have systemic yeast anyway because of me and now that she is not accepting bm nothing is protecting her. She gets CO, butter, CLO, vitamins and yogurt... what else? I think she is itchy or hurting because when I change her and give her a bath she grabs her peepee and last time she was crying too.
The triage nurse on the phone told me to give her baking soda baths 4 times a day. Is it going to do any good?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm not sure what is going on. DD has a rash on her front. All pimply bumps. The naturopath thought it might be yeast. Now it is on her back to.

I've got itchy ears, itchy eyes, itchy







you get the idea. My yeast is back and bad. I haven't changed anything. We are still very strict on the diet. I am doing some keifer and have slacked on getting the co at every meal but still.... I'm thinking we need to go more drastic and cut fruit. But I don't wanna!







I've got so little to look forward to in life and the ice cream we make every couple of weeks is one of those things. That and the Jennies cookies.







Perhaps it is just too much honey...

Sigh.

I hate to think that all this effort and it still isn't doing anything for our yeast.










DD had the exact same thing when I was taking Candidase- it at only went away after 1 week after I stopped. Then it came back when I started kefir. I had to give up kefir for now because it makes my eczema a lot worse.
Too much fruit also feeds the yeast, it's wise to cut back on honey and sugary fruits. Go with berries and avocado. That being said I can't resist putting a banana in my coconut smoothie or pancakes. It probably doesn't help...


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
New development in DD...
Poor thing she never gets a break.
Now she has a vaginal? discharge which is greenish-yellowish, just a hint of color and mucousy, with an odd smell. I wonder if it's yeast, or UTI?

Silver Gel cures about anything. That and tea tree oil. The silver gel is not irritating. The tea tree oil must be diluted or it will sting/burn. Greenish-yellow discharge sounds like a bacterial infection though. I don't like synthetic topical (or systemic) antibiotics, personally. Silver gel, tea tree oil and lavender are natural antimicrobials, antibacterials, antifungals. I'd make up a spritzer of one of these and rinse with it at each diaper change. And I'd sprinkle acidophilous directly on the perineal area after each diaper change for a few days and then several times a day for at least a week.

The baking soda changes the skin pH so that kills off many microbials. I'd certainly try that; but do not let her drink any of the water (the baking soda can change the body's pH inappropriately if too much is consumed). Epsom salts are another soothing bath soak and do alter the cellular level in a positive way. Drinking cranberry juice helps to alter the pH of urine. (good luck with that!!) It would probably be about impossible to collect a clean catch urine without contamination, unless they catheterize her for a sterile specimen. NO WAY would I do this unless she were febrile.

How to cure a vaginal infection without medications:
http://www.ehow.com/how_7838_cure-va...nfections.html

http://www.moondragon.org/obgyn/disorders/candida3.html

Pat


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Hey wise folks,

I've lurked around these threads on and off and have a specific question now about treating yeast with enzymes. I posted a thread separately, but I think including it here raises my chance of responses.....I'd really appreciate any insight on this.

Here's the post:

DS (3yo) has high amounts of yeast in his gut and I'd like to try some enzymes. Here's the deal: He has food allergies and leaky gut, all for unexplained reasons. We've eliminated his allergens and he's a lot better. But, he still has these really high yeast levels and really high anaerobic bacteria levels. The doc wants to treat the bacteria at the moment, which we're about to start. He'll be taking an antibiotic along with diflucan before, during, and after. He's also on probiotics. The doc said the yeast can only be treated in combination with a no/low-carb, no sugar diet, which would be impossible for DS. It would leave him eating cashews and goat yogurt, nothing else (and he doesn't even like cashews every day). So, the diet is not for us at this point. It seems, from reading this link http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm (from JaneS -- thanks!) that enzymes would be beneficial. But, I'd love help putting together the pieces.

What would you recommend he take? What are the specifics for taking them? Can I buy them at Whole Foods or do I need to go online? I'd like to move fast because the site said they are helpful in combination with diflucan, which he'll now be on for the next 20 days or so.

Thanks so so much, wise folks!
megin


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
JaneS. I thought you'd reply to my inner thought about Leaky Gut mom. I am happy to not eat grain, dairy or sugar for the rest of my life, but need a glimpse of hope that my kids are going to get better. I was looking at the embryology where the brain and the gut formation happen at the same stage of development. I wish I knew about Leaky Gut before I concieved







:

Believe me so do I, so do I!!!! I still have a lot of anger at the many drs who knew crap about IBS and never one mentioned the many antibiotics I had taken.

I just remember there are kids way worse off than my DS. And give thanks for the joy that he truly is, and what I do know now. It's actually killing me that I've been able to get so healthy as a result of him. As a result of what this journey has taught me. I'd much rather still be in pain myself and he be the one who has healed.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Megin!

You can try Candidase by Enzymedica at hfs. Or Candex. You take them in between meals. I'm not sure if you should take them with the Diflucan or not ... maybe just before as I have heard protocols where a yeast killer was helped by the enzymes popping the cell walls first. I would ask on Karen DeFelice's Yahoo list.

Diflucan is hard stuff, I took it once when I had thrush and the die off was unbeliveable, I was so sick. You might want to give milk thistle or research other ways of protecting the liver. Diflucan is known for causing liver damage.

Start high doses of vitamin C to mop up toxins, at least 1 gram 4x/day or more according to MT's formula depending on weight. We've been discussing it at end of Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread that is stickied at top of Vaccinations forum.

My DS has bacterial problems according to his stool tests and still cannot tolerate many fruits at all, poop goes to mush.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm not sure what is going on. DD has a rash on her front. All pimply bumps. The naturopath thought it might be yeast. Now it is on her back to.

I've got itchy ears, itchy eyes, itchy







you get the idea. My yeast is back and bad. I haven't changed anything. We are still very strict on the diet. I am doing some keifer and have slacked on getting the co at every meal but still.... I'm thinking we need to go more drastic and cut fruit. But I don't wanna!







I've got so little to look forward to in life and the ice cream we make every couple of weeks is one of those things. That and the Jennies cookies.







Perhaps it is just too much honey...

Sigh.

I hate to think that all this effort and it still isn't doing anything for our yeast.









UGH how infuriating!

My DS reacts more to fruit than honey. I think those cookies could also have illegal honey too, or sweetened coconut? I know the label makes it seems like they are legal but maybe they are not. Also I couldnt tolerate coconut shreds until well on the way to healing. I think you are supposed to wait 6 mos for coconut? I forget.

The kefir does make some people react. Whether it's the alcohol or the yeast. Or maybe there is still lactose in yours, how long are you brewing it?

Did you try the cellulases only between meals? I had such great success with Candex when I had thrush and I didn't know anything about why it worked then.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Silver Gel cures about anything. That and tea tree oil. The silver gel is not irritating.

Pat

I'm so glad you are here, you always have such awesome advice!









Do you have good info. on collodial silver? I don't know much about it, where is a good place to start. I saw Soverign Silver at hfs and the label made it sound too good to be true!

This is what Karen DeFelice of enzymestuff used to cure her DS's bacterial problems. I've always been so wary of internal use.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

EBG,

Your poor bunny!!

From what I heard Nystatin is not all that effective. However it's source is supposed to be natural I think. But it's important how it's compounded. You need to get it compounded w/o sugar if she is going to take it. The common version is with sugar which totally defeats the purpose. (Hello mainstream medicine.)

I'd definitely ask for a culture to determine exactly what is going on. Any reason why they cannot culture with a swab test?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OH... and EBG:

High doses of vitamin C also changes urine ph.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
*Re: Vitamin B12*

I have a prescription for the injection (I asked the Dr. for it, since he suggested pills, and I knew tht wouldn't be very effective at this time for me).

After I get that, do I keep taking the Freeda Vitamin B-complex, or should I lay-off for a while?


Without the search function finding info around here is crazy. And then when our satellite is slow, it's impossible. How low is your B-12? Apparently it's low enough to get shots. In that case, people often get shots weekly for a while and then monthly and if your doctor allows that, I would definitely do it. The B complex will have other things in it that you probably need too. Did you have a blood panel for all of your Bs? That's unusual, so I am guessing not and if that's true I wonder why your doc poo-poo'd the B complex.

The 5HTP is what tryptophan is converted into before your body makes serotonin. It helps people sleep if they are low in it. It might be worth a try. The inositol thread has no morphed into all things more "natural" for depression, namely anything that's not an antidepressant.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
EBG,

I'd definitely ask for a culture to determine exactly what is going on. Any reason why they cannot culture with a swab test?

I second this idea IF alternative options don't work. Otherwise they just give you a broad spectrum antibiotic which makes matters worse.

Pat


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Do you have good info. on collodial silver? I don't know much about it, where is a good place to start. I saw Soverign Silver at hfs and the label made it sound too good to be true!

This is what Karen DeFelice of enzymestuff used to cure her DS's bacterial problems. I've always been so wary of internal use.

Here is about everything you ever wanted to know about colloidial silver and then some! http://www.accu-thump.com/cs.html Personally, I wouldn't drink it regularly. But I believe it is probably safe to try for a short duration. The concern I have is killing off good bacteria inadvertantly.

I believe classical homeopathy has helped our son (and each of us) the most. And seems to have less potential risk, imo. But, everything effects everything.









Pat


----------



## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

quote:
Start high doses of vitamin C to mop up toxins, at least 1 gram 4x/day or more according to MT's formula depending on weight. We've been discussing it at end of Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread that is stickied at top of Vaccinations forum.

Who is MT? All if this makes me.........







:

Thanks! I think I'm going to try the enzyme protocol for yeast from here: http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm.

Any reason this wouldn't be a good idea for DS with the horrible yeast overgrowth?

And is it that I should add lots of Vitamin C to this protocol? At what point in the protocol.

Wow -- madness!

And finally, yes, JaneS, I think DS experienced some major die-off yesterday. Luckily I learned about die-off yesterday so understood a bit of what was going on. He was CRAZED and hardly slept. Oy! Much better already this evening, though...........What will help his liver if Diflucan is hard on the liver?

Thanks!
megin


----------



## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Peri, you wouldn't imagine how many people have told me in the last week to go get my thyroid tested.

Just a note, a regular thyroid test MAY not show abnormal results, even if the thyroid isn't right. My doc does a saliva test that is supposed to be more accurate. I think Gale Force knows a lot about the various tests out there and which are the most accurate, as well as how to get them even on your own without your regular doc ordering them. She'll correct me if I'm wrong, I hope!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*

Who is MT? All if this makes me.........







:

MT = Momtezuma Tuatara. She is incredibly well-researched in nutrition and immunology and especially vaccinations. She is a wealth of information.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, if I had any doubts that SCD doesn't help me...I was at a party today with lots of food, and I ate a fair amount of it, including illegals. Thankfully I don't feel much or really any pain with my "condition" but my stomach is not happy right now. Actually, that feels fine, but I am bloated beyond belief. Well, at least I know that I am doing this for a reason.

Saw my acupuncturist for the first time in like 3 weeks. He said my "spot" of inflammation, or whatever it is, at the start of my large intestine is smaller. He said before he was the size of a small orange.







I had no idea it was that big. It does still hurt to touch, but seems not quite as bad. Guess I just have to get used to the idea that this is a slow road to health.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I have no idea what 5-HTP is either.

*Re: Vitamin B12*

I have a prescription for the injection (I asked the Dr. for it, since he suggested pills, and I knew tht wouldn't be very effective at this time for me).

After I get that, do I keep taking the Freeda Vitamin B-complex, or should I lay-off for a while?

Hi Siana,
My naturopath said that I could keep taking my B vit if I wanted... I believe B is water soluable so it is hard to OD on them. I was also taking a dissolvable-I'll have to try the NOW brand sublinguals as I don't want to keep taking the shots at $20/shot. I took them weekly for 3 weeks and now I'm at every two weeks.

I'll try the stinky armpits recipe. I think the BO is related to yeast/bad bacteria and also die-off. I have it worse at certain times-I also have bad breath, which is probably related.

5-HTP-Five hydroxy tryptophan-I think someone else responded that it is a serotonin precursor. A friend of mine suggested I take 5-HTP for sleep-but it was super expensive, so I'm doing the magnesium and also I sometimes take "Calmzyme" which contains valerian root, hops, skullcap, and wild lettuce, along with a few enzymes. Easier than making camomille tea.

What is AF?







:

Moonshine, have you checked out these site about alternatives to Zoloft?
http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/
http://www.integrativementalhealth.net/library.htm
The Zoloft could also be contributing to the "crappy" way you are feeling
http://www.thomasjmoore.com/pages/depress.shtml

I have lots more info if you are interested. Oh, you probably know that stopping Zoloft suddenly can cause "rebound" effects, so one should always taper off any ssri gradually.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Jane, did you try the NAET and if so, how did it work?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Sarag, AF is Aunt Flo.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Here's a very interesting link I found on another thread re: castor oil. There are some references to it and yeast.
http://eregimens.com/therapies/Diet/.../CastorOil.htm


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Castor oil is the main ingredient in the new yeast killer we are waiting on. According to the naturopath I can take it and it will go through my bm to treat dd.

I cut out fruit today. Boy do I feel lousy. Just exhausted. I think dd does too. I cut it out for her as well. I'm not thrilled about this. I have a lovely bag of fresh organic cherries in the fridge that DH will get to eat. He took the tree ripened peaches with him to work. Anyone have any good ideas for smoothie recipes that don't include fruit? This mornings was 1/2 keifer 1/2 coconut milk and my vitamins. Luckily I use the ionic fiz and that is sweet so that helps.

Oh I made Jane's cashew cake yesterday with stevia. The first try had way too much and was inedible. The second try had way to little and I over cooked it. Sigh. 1/3 tsp stevia substitutes for 1 cup of sugar according to the web sites I looked at. I didn't read that ahead of time and used 3 tsp and then started tasting to see how much more I needed.







Now I need to go to the Wed farmers market to get more eggs since I used mine all up on cake for company and it didn't even taste very good.

What do you do if you have picky kids over for dinner? We had dh's coworker over for dinner and their kids wouldn't touch anything we served. We had a bag of chips from before we went on the diet and they just ate corn chips for dinner. We serverd kabobs with lamb, pepper, summersquash, mushrooms and a salad. DD has always eaten most anything served. Before dinner we served fruit and cheese. Peaches, Plums and grapes. Cheddar and provolone cheese. These kids wouldn't touch it. The fruits were too "exotic". Apparently the mom eats anything but the dad is picky and the kids have learned from him to be picky. I'm just wondering what my obligations are as a hostess in this situation? I offered a few different things but they turned them all down. None were particulary "kid" style foods but then we don't have those in the house to offer, should I have had them?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Gee all that sounds pretty good to me. Are these fast food kids? I would think that they'd at least eat the grapes & cheese.









I wish you luck w/the no fruit thing. It must be terribly hard.

Yeah, I'm intrigued by the castor oil thing. Have you tried it yet? I can't get up the courage to actually ingest it.







Plus, I only have a regular CVS brand and want to get some cold-pressed stuff from my hfs before I do (IF I do.)

Oh, and no - I wouldn't think you should have stuff on hand that your family doesn't eat. JMO though.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I've read warnings against castor oil on the terressentails.com website.

here:
"Castor Oil. Palma christi oil. For decades castor oil has been a part of the folk medicine repetoire. The oil has been used as an industrial lubricant, lamp oil, hot compress, laxative, body care product, etc. The plant material, stalks and leaves, when dried after a harvest are a highly potent allergen/sensitizer and cause severe, disabling allergic asthma in workers who handle the material. The mash that remains after the oil has been pressed or solvent-extracted is toxic to many animals. The majority of castor oil that is produced today is produced in the Middle East, India and Africa. Curiously, there are no significant scientific studies that can strongly document skin healing properties or other therapeutic effects.

There are two interesting things that can be reported about this oil: 1) it has never been used as a food for humans and 2) when you type the words "castor oil army ricin" into the search engine "google," there are 1950 results linking to the potential use of ricin (a deadly component of castor beans) being used in biowarfare terrorist attacks to kill US citizens and many listings for our government's and the military's concerns about ricin's ease of manufacturing and the virtually unlimited quanitities of castor beans available for processing ricin.

For an enlightening report on castor beans and ricin production visit this article from the Harvard Independent magazine titled "Iraq Sharpens Weapons Disguise."

Why would a self-proclaimed health-conscious, environmentally-friendly, socially-responsible business choose to use this oil in their body care products that are being offered in the health/environmental products industry? If you review the results in the google search recommended above, you will see that the terrorist problem and the potent allergen/sensitizer problem are not a new problem. Why would you want to use products made from castor oil when the many negatives far outweigh the anecdotal "positives?" I think I'll pass, thanks."

This is what they say, I don't know but if it's controversial as a topical agent, I wouln't swallow it. I know Udo E. or somebody else? has a candida fighting supplement made from castor oil... it does kill candida in vitro. But isn't it because of the ricin? Who knows... just like GSE... (According to an English report, GSE kills candida because it contains toxic chemicals that are harmful for humans too. Uncontaminated GSE didn't kill candida.)


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I ordered the stuff a week ago. I thought it was supposed to be coming priority mail but it hasn't appeared yet. I ordered a bunch of stuff last weekend though so I could be confusing it.

I'm considering doing the nystantin for myself. DD had a reaction to the topical cream as an infant but now I'm not sure it wasn't just a die off type reaction. Plus very little will come through my bm if any at all according to all sources I have read so far. It sounds extremely safe as these things go.

I tried enzymes again today. Nausea again but perhaps not as bad as before... I'm so frustrated by them. This was 1 of the chewable houstons. I have been taking the trader joes enzymes w/o reaction because it has the hcl in it as well as enzymes. I'm not sure it is actually doing anything for me.

We go to see a new chiro today for dd. I'm begining to think that some of her issues have to do with her horrible birth and subsequent treatement in the nicu and her just not getting over it. I'm begining to look into treatments for healing that as well. I have a thread over in ppd if you are interested.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

So here I am again with yet another question.

My 11 month old (today!) won't poop. We have given him pear juice, laid off of binding foods, started Baby Calm daily, given him senna, and what generally happens is on day 5 we give him senna and if he hasn't pooped by evening the next day, we break out the glycerin suppositories.

I am fairly sure I am drinking enough water, and I give it to him, too. I think he associates poop with pain and this is why he does his beat to hold it. But we get no leaks or anything - just no poop whatsoever.

He isn't even fully eating solids - BM is still very much his primary source of nutrition and food.

I am finding that it has become difficult for me to eat enough to get the calories I need lately on SCD. I am fairly dilligent though and am aware of it, so I've been eating extra.

My main issue is malabsorption, though.

Should I give the Baby calm more than once a day? Should I add vitamin C for him? If yes, what's a decent chewable, or should I just add the crystals to his magnesium drink?

And can epsom salts cause hives? I added them to his nighttime bath and the next day he had this red raised bumpy rash all across his back right above his bum. It completely looked like hives and followed the there for three days and then gone hive pattern. Now I'm afraid to give him another ES bath but I thought it could do only good?

But then he also nibbled DH's pizza crust that night...it could be that, too, right?















:


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
So here I am again with yet another question.

My 11 month old (today!) won't poop. We have given him pear juice, laid off of binding foods, started Baby Calm daily, given him senna, and what generally happens is on day 5 we give him senna and if he hasn't pooped by evening the next day, we break out the glycerin suppositories.

I am fairly sure I am drinking enough water, and I give it to him, too. I think he associates poop with pain and this is why he does his beat to hold it. But we get no leaks or anything - just no poop whatsoever.

He isn't even fully eating solids - BM is still very much his primary source of nutrition and food.

I am finding that it has become difficult for me to eat enough to get the calories I need lately on SCD. I am fairly dilligent though and am aware of it, so I've been eating extra.

My main issue is malabsorption, though.

Should I give the Baby calm more than once a day? Should I add vitamin C for him? If yes, what's a decent chewable, or should I just add the crystals to his magnesium drink?

And can epsom salts cause hives? I added them to his nighttime bath and the next day he had this red raised bumpy rash all across his back right above his bum. It completely looked like hives and followed the there for three days and then gone hive pattern. Now I'm afraid to give him another ES bath but I thought it could do only good?

But then he also nibbled DH's pizza crust that night...it could be that, too, right?















:

Have you tried fish oil or flax oil? That can really help with constipation. Dr Sears recomends 1 tsp flax oil daily for infants and 2 tsp for toddlers for constipation.

The magnesium you may need to give more of. The "rule" is give to bowel "tolerance". Vitamin C should also loosen up his bowels.

Have you been avoiding grains for him? The pizza crust could certainly have caused the hives. I would think that epsom salts would have helped mitigate the hives, not caused them.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Have you tried diluted prune juice? I used to think pear juice would do the trick too but not for my dd. Pear juice is one of the *neutral* ones.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS didn't get hives from epsom salts bath, just couldn't tolerate them. He has sulfur issues.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh! Almost forgot:
*Vitamin C Miracle*
Maybe I missed the memo about this one but I just started giving dd1 vit. c and guess what!? No more mushy poop. 3 days now and the last 2 days she's actually gone on the potty every single time.









I haven't changed anything else in her diet or supplements. This is amazing to me.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Jane, did you try the NAET and if so, how did it work?

Yes we did one balancing treatment and I have no more faith left in the practitioner so we are not continuing. I'm very frustrated. She wasn't positive about the NAET in the two times I talked to her about it. Also one is not really supposed to do energy healing with classical homeopathy. Plus she had him on herbs too.

I really wish I had pots of money to just take DS to the Pfieffer Institute outside of Chicago. My IL's actually live there too (not that I would want to live w/ them... ykwim?







)


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Have you tried fish oil or flax oil? That can really help with constipation. Dr Sears recomends 1 tsp flax oil daily for infants and 2 tsp for toddlers for constipation.

Can I use CLO? Because I have that on hand.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
The magnesium you may need to give more of. The "rule" is give to bowel "tolerance". Vitamin C should also loosen up his bowels.

Okay. I'll add more then. And the Vitamin C.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Have you been avoiding grains for him? The pizza crust could certainly have caused the hives. I would think that epsom salts would have helped mitigate the hives, not caused them.

Yes, in general my rule for him is he eats what I eat on SCD, only he can have raw fruit and I cannot. So no grains. And usually is easy, DH isn't really eating any grains either. Except that day. But I think he only had a couple of bites...would it be enough to cause hives? And is it weird that the hives only occurred across his back right above his bum?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Have you tried diluted prune juice? I used to think pear juice would do the trick too but not for my dd. Pear juice is one of the *neutral* ones.

I haven't. But I'm certainly willing to. Do you think I can make prune juice from all these prunes I have around?


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

hey y'all,

not really wanting to barge in on your thread, but just curious about some things. my dh has some digestive issues and i just wondered what folks would think of them. we do have some celiac friends so he's aware of wheat issues, but doesn't think he has any. he cannot tolerate coffee, eggs, dairy, and strictly avoids them outright although he will sometimes eat eggs or dairy cooked in something w/o obvious ill effects. he also has potential sensitivities to nuts. does that sound like he would benefit from SCD? we don't do much meat, but do occasionally eat poultry or fish. we went away this weekend and he had a rough time w/o any of his obvious triggers. i really came here trying to find something to make for supper that i thought he could tolerate, but thought i'd ask y'all's expert opinions on those symptoms. thoughts?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

chasmyn, that's how I make the juice. I buy organic prunes and stew them in a pot for a few minutes then use the juice. When dd gets bad I give her x-tra clo, prune juice and now the vitamin c. I HATE HATE HATE those glycerin suppositories. They have hurt dd emotionally. She calls them *poopy medicine* and for a while whenever I'd wipe her she'd say, "Mommy's not giving you any poopy medicine."


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

beanma, all I can say is have him try it. It'll be obvious pretty quickly if the diet is doing something for him.

Check out this thread for dinner ideas.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What do you do if you have picky kids over for dinner? We had dh's coworker over for dinner and their kids wouldn't touch anything we served. We had a bag of chips from before we went on the diet and they just ate corn chips for dinner. We serverd kabobs with lamb, pepper, summersquash, mushrooms and a salad. DD has always eaten most anything served. Before dinner we served fruit and cheese. Peaches, Plums and grapes. Cheddar and provolone cheese. These kids wouldn't touch it. The fruits were too "exotic". Apparently the mom eats anything but the dad is picky and the kids have learned from him to be picky. I'm just wondering what my obligations are as a hostess in this situation? I offered a few different things but they turned them all down. None were particulary "kid" style foods but then we don't have those in the house to offer, should I have had them?

Either have junk food ready for them or let them starve







Personally if they wouldn't eat grapes or cheese I say let them starve!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
chasmyn, that's how I make the juice. I buy organic prunes and stew them in a pot for a few minutes then use the juice. When dd gets bad I give her x-tra clo, prune juice and now the vitamin c. I HATE HATE HATE those glycerin suppositories. They have hurt dd emotionally. She calls them *poopy medicine* and for a while whenever I'd wipe her she'd say, "Mommy's not giving you any poopy medicine."









I fear this is what has happened with DS as well.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I never thought I would be happy to have a Dr say that there is something majorly wrong with my child but I am. We saw the new chiro today. She says that she hasn't ever seen a back as "sticky" as my dd's. Esp arround the adrenals. Well no wonder she won't sleep! She wants us to come back pretty often for quite a while but is confident that she can help. She also had some ideas for things to do myself to help her cope and nurse less. I'll post them if anyone is interested.

Gotta go eat dinner now but I had to post this news.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
...........What will help his liver if Diflucan is hard on the liver?

Milk thistle is one idea. Some people give it several times/day or only at night. The night is most important.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma*
hey y'all,

not really wanting to barge in on your thread, but just curious about some things. my dh has some digestive issues and i just wondered what folks would think of them. we do have some celiac friends so he's aware of wheat issues, but doesn't think he has any. he cannot tolerate coffee, eggs, dairy, and strictly avoids them outright although he will sometimes eat eggs or dairy cooked in something w/o obvious ill effects. he also has potential sensitivities to nuts. does that sound like he would benefit from SCD? we don't do much meat, but do occasionally eat poultry or fish. we went away this weekend and he had a rough time w/o any of his obvious triggers. i really came here trying to find something to make for supper that i thought he could tolerate, but thought i'd ask y'all's expert opinions on those symptoms. thoughts?









Barge away! No worries!

Well what are the symptoms?









Digestive enzymes would be good first step too.

I used to think I was "allergic" or intolerant to nuts but it was only b/c I couldn't digest them (whole). Nut butters and then nut flours were fine. It took a while til I could handle whole nuts (and soaked NT style). Eggs can reportedly exacerbate diarrhea, but that doesn't necessary mean one is allergic.

What about aged cheese and butter that don't have lactose? It's possible that he is reacting to lactose and not dairy protein, in which case 24 hr. SCD yogurt and the above dairy products w/o lactose would be a great choice.

The only way to know if SCD will help is try and give it an honest trial.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Oh! Almost forgot:
*Vitamin C Miracle*
Maybe I missed the memo about this one but I just started giving dd1 vit. c and guess what!? No more mushy poop. 3 days now and the last 2 days she's actually gone on the potty every single time.









I haven't changed anything else in her diet or supplements. This is amazing to me.









!!!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I tried enzymes again today. Nausea again but perhaps not as bad as before... I'm so frustrated by them. This was 1 of the chewable houstons.

Chewable? with xylitol? I made the mistake a while ago of chewing some xylitol gum, that gave me horrible gas! It's pretty hard to digest.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
I'll try the stinky armpits recipe. I think the BO is related to yeast/bad bacteria and also die-off. I have it worse at certain times-I also have bad breath, which is probably related..

Here are my stinky pit stories:

1. Upping my selenium from 100 to 200 mg gave me a week or two of smelliness.

2. Any kind of "killer" like tea tree oil doesn't work at all for me. This being summer I figured I'd try some natural deoderant with TTO. *Peee-U!* OMG I was so horrified at myself.

Went back to just using either Burt's Bees or Lush Silky Underwear powder after my shower and I'm fine even hiking in woods. Which is surprising b/c they are cornstarch based. But I wonder if it really is the skin flora deal, upsetting the balance does something.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pattyla
I never thought I would be happy to have a Dr say that there is something majorly wrong with my child but I am. We saw the new chiro today. She says that she hasn't ever seen a back as "sticky" as my dd's. Esp arround the adrenals. Well no wonder she won't sleep! She wants us to come back pretty often for quite a while but is confident that she can help. She also had some ideas for things to do myself to help her cope and nurse less. I'll post them if anyone is interested.
Yay! That sounds promising.







I'd like to hear the coping mechanisms she suggested.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*Here are my stinky pit stories:

1. Upping my selenium from 100 to 200 mg gave me a week or two of smelliness.

2. Any kind of "killer" like tea tree oil doesn't work at all for me. This being summer I figured I'd try some natural deoderant with TTO. *Peee-U!* OMG I was so horrified at myself.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yay! That sounds promising.







I'd like to hear the coping mechanisms she suggested.

Me too!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I've been reading this thread religiously but haven't posted much since dropping out of the SCD. I have some good news to cautiously share, though -- I think high doses of high-vitamin CLO have "cured" my acne.

I started taking 1 Tbsp. of Blue Ice daily about two months ago, then went to 2 Tbsp. for a week, and have been on 3 Tbsp. for almost two weeks now. After less than one week on the 3 Tbsp. per day regimen my skin started looking much better, and now it's looking great. I've still had a few tiny break-outs, but since I get very little (and interrupted) sleep I'm not surprised. At any rate my skin looks as good as it did when I was using Proactiv, but nicer as far as it being less dry.

Now I just need to know what to do...I don't want to stay at such a high dose forever, especially since I'm nursing. My plan is to stay on 3 Tbsp. for two more weeks (one month total), then go down to 2 Tbsp. for a few weeks, and then maybe go down to 1 Tbsp. Does that sound okay? Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

And now the bad...my son still has a pimply rash on his upper arms (I haven't tried giving him CLO directly, since I'm on such a high dose myself).

Also, he moans in his sleep and sometimes gets hysterical (I get him up and give him some homeopathic medicine, though I don't know if it actually does anything, and then have to rock him back to sleep). I'm thinking it could be teething -- but he's _never_ slept peacefully through the night. He's usually fine and happy during the day, though he does meltdown in the evening (like now when DH is trying to entertain him while I'm online).

Any thoughts on this? Sorry always to be asking questions and offering so little in return.







:


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Here are my stinky pit stories:

1. Upping my selenium from 100 to 200 mg gave me a week or two of smelliness.

2. Any kind of "killer" like tea tree oil doesn't work at all for me. This being summer I figured I'd try some natural deoderant with TTO. *Peee-U!* OMG I was so horrified at myself.

Went back to just using either Burt's Bees or Lush Silky Underwear powder after my shower and I'm fine even hiking in woods. Which is surprising b/c they are cornstarch based. *But I wonder if it really is the skin flora deal, upsetting the balance does something*.

This is what I wonder. I have really never had an odor issue up until lately. I am thinking ph balance/gut flora/general health. And I hope it goes away again too!


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Barge away! No worries!

thanks

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Well what are the symptoms?









well, trips to the bathroom mostly. i think it tends toward diahrrea (2 Hs or 2 Rs?), but also very painful cramping and spasms.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I used to think I was "allergic" or intolerant to nuts but it was only b/c I couldn't digest them (whole). Nut butters and then nut flours were fine. It took a while til I could handle whole nuts (and soaked NT style). Eggs can reportedly exacerbate diarrhea, but that doesn't necessary mean one is allergic.

yes, the eggs send him straight to the bathroom if he eats them straight -- like an omelet. he probably hasn't had one of those in 10 years. lots of pain with those. he says if he's ever to have a last meal before execution maybe he'll have an omelet with coffee and ice cream for dessert. the nuts seem to bring on painful canker sores in the mouth.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What about aged cheese and butter that don't have lactose? It's possible that he is reacting to lactose and not dairy protein, in which case 24 hr. SCD yogurt and the above dairy products w/o lactose would be a great choice.

he held onto cheese for a long long time, but gave it up trying to help his sinuses and noticed that his stomach was so much better off of it that he stayed off. it did help his sinuses, too, but it was the stomach improvement that was so dramatic. he said after he gave up cheese he could eat beans again w/o trouble.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The only way to know if SCD will help is try and give it an honest trial.

the thing that worries me about the SCD is the heavy reliance on eggs and cheese --two of the things that send him running to the john. i do like the idea of really _*healing*_ the gut, though. i found another site http://www.helpforibs.com/ that has food tolerances that seem to match up with his better. i would really like to fix the problem and then he could eat anything (like eliminating cheese meant beans were tolerated okay), but i'm not sure that there's a magic bean







.

as far as stinky goes, have you tried the crystal deodorant? works great for both of us.

thanks for your experience and advice.

p.s. supper was white rice, boiled potatoes, green beans, and yellow squash with sliced tomatoes on the side and leftover whole grain cornbread. seems okay so far...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just wanted to add to my vitamin c post from above that dd1 is still having craniosacral therapy as well. I know that also had something to do with the big improvement.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Chewable? with xylitol? I made the mistake a while ago of chewing some xylitol gum, that gave me horrible gas! It's pretty hard to digest.

Actually the chewable ones have been the easiest ones for me to tolerate by far so I figure if I can tolerate one of those eventualy I can tolerate something stronger.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Just wanted to add to my vitamin c post from above that dd1 is still having craniosacral therapy as well. I know that also had something to do with the big improvement.









How much C, how are you giving it? Details woman!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yay! That sounds promising.







I'd like to hear the coping mechanisms she suggested.

The big thing that she recomended was to start swaddling her again. Wrap her up good and tight for some time every day. She suggested using her towel after her bath.

She said that they do this with her 5 year old. They swaddle him and have him break out of it, or put him in a couch cushion sandwich and have him get out, that kind of thing. Something about the pressure and the immobility. She also hinted at the way it resembles birth too.

She also said that I should forget night weaning her and focus on cutting down her day nursing. Just pick one predictable time of day when she nurses and try to cut that out. She suggested replacing that nursing with some swaddleing time to give her the feedback she is needing and to try to break some of the habit part of her constant nursing. I'm feeling a bit conflicted about this idea but I'm willing to give it a try and see what happens.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Pattyla, instead of the cashew butter cake, why not make the bread? You can do that w/o honey or other sweetner.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Pattyla, instead of the cashew butter cake, why not make the bread? You can do that w/o honey or other sweetner.

True but then it isn't sweet and doesn't taste like cake.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
True but then it isn't sweet and doesn't taste like cake.










Well, yes, I guess that would be true. But you could slather it with yummy cultured butter and it would be heavenly.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

May be this is an old issue here, but I am reaching a conclusion that my son gets diaper rash under the penis when his yeast is up. His skin will crack at the base, and gets red bumps where the skin is bright red... I give more yogurt/ probiotics, but does anyone have other suggestions?


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Pattyla, instead of the cashew butter cake, why not make the bread? You can do that w/o honey or other sweetner.

Where can I find these recipes? TIA


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

beanma;
It's not easy to do SCD w/o eggs... I don't do cheese because of candida and minimal low-sugar fruit and no honey. So I'm also restricted SCD. I eat a lot of eggs, though.
With the nuts it sounds like a true allergy to something in them, not just a digestion issue. But allergies can be "cured" too. That is when the gut heals they will probably go away, too. SCD uses a lot of nuts, too.
Maybe you could try the Houston or Enzymedica enzymes first to help with proteins like eggs.

Yeah, I would start with enzymes and probiotics, and if they help he might be able to do SCD without nuts.

greencat;
Have you tried CO mixed with TTO or lavender or oregano oil? Or yogurt applied to the sore spot.
Having said that we're still battling yeast issues. CO helps DD's diaper yeast rash in 2-3 days, for me yogurt gives relief but not TTO.
Have not tried OOO yet.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

About the cake issue: I have found that stevia doesn't work well in baked goods. I have tried muffins, and they always tasted awful, no matter how much or little I put in.
Stevia works great in smoothies, jello and cream though.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Update on DD:
Well they did a swab culture yesterday and she tested + for strep. Also minor yeast issues. Poor thing. What makes this so bad is that DH makes me give her the abx (amoxicillin).







It's really heartbreaking....... I can't believe how stubborn he is. He won't listen or read anything about vaccines or abx... I don't want to be sneaky and do things behind his back but sometimes I think about it.
I regret going to the doc, but I wanted to know what she had.
So I'm trying to balance it with lots of yogurt and Culturelle, CLO and C (I got acerola from NOW). What's the rule of thumb for probiotics, at least two hours after abx, right?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Question for those using enzymes: do you feel they help you, and how do you know?

I've been using them for months and I'm really not sure if they're helping or not. I've just switched brands so maybe that'll help, but I definitely don't think they're the magic cure-all they're sometimes made out to be.

Sleep issues yet again: any more suggestions on how to get DD to stop waking up so much at night? We don't co-sleep and last night she went to bed at 9 (I tried to get her to sleep starting at 7:45 but...) woke up at 1:30, 4, 5:15, and 6:30. She is perfectly capable of going 4 hours between nursings in the daytime so I know she does not need to nurse that often. She barely nurses half the time she wakes up. I've tried "No-Cry Sleep Solution" and it is not helping. In fact I think she is getting worse. I think this weekend I'm going to have DH go in and get her when she cries and maybe she'll figure out that she is not going to get nursed every time she wakes up.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OK I need to vent. My DH is being super un-supportive of everything it seems. Every time I try to talk to him about some child-raising issue, he tells me I don't know how babies are supposed to act--I can't believe what people say in books or on bulletin boards or studies or even IRL because people lie and besides their babies aren't unvaxed, BF w/healthy diets for the moms, etc etc. I told him I wanted him to try getting DD in the middle of the night and he was giving me a hard time for always nursing her back to sleep (how the heck else am I supposed to get her to go back to sleep? Patting her doesn't work, and picking her up doesn't work.) I told him I wanted to try giving her a pacifier and he said I couldn't do that. So I told him he better come up with some sleep solutions since he doesn't like anything I do. So he says she's taking too many daytime naps and I shouldn't put her down for a nap until she's cranky. Like he knows anything about when she's tired. She usually takes 4 naps a day for a total of 2 1/2-3 hours of sleep. That is NOT too much daytime sleep for a 6 month old who generally sleeps no more than 10 hours at night. Then he says she takes short naps because I always get her the second she makes a peep and I should just let her cry for a while until she goes back to sleep. He also says that when we're in the car and she cries I should just ignore her, not talk to her, not give her any new toys. (She is starting to be more and more unhappy in the car seat and I really don't know what to do with that.)

And he wonders why we don't talk...like I really want to converse with someone who acts like I'm an idiot and disagrees with me on any topic I bring up.























Sorry for the rant, I just really really needed to let off some steam.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Caedmyn, I'm so sorry that things are in the dumps right now. I wish I had some words of wisdom, but I have no experience (first or second-hand) with a baby that doesn't sleep well at night. At the risk of taking this down a rabbit trail, it did sound like you weren't happy with the communication and respect level between you and DH - in my experience, those things have to be fixed mindfully and not ignored.








Someone asked about enzymes: I too have been skeptical about how much they help me when I'm on SCD. However, I can add that I recently tried to eat some cultured cow cream with a lot of enzymes, and I had a much less severe reaction that I had before. Could be a lot of other factors, but it did suggest to me that it helps take the edge off when I'm eating something that is right on the borderline.

Speaking of which, does anyone have advice about when to intro some of the SCD-legal legumes? One source says after being on SCD for 3 months, another says when you are symptom-free for 3 months. The symptom-free status is tough because I've definately gotten my symptoms under control (directly related to foods), but I get a relapse whenver I accidentally get an illegal or if I try to intro a food that doesn't agree with me. Has anyone introed beans yet? That is going to make me feel much more human........


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

On the vitamin c dosage:
I give dd1 1000 mg in her juice in the morning.

For my b'fed dd2 I give her probably a total of 800 mg (?) in her water throughout the day. Hard to say really how much she's getting because we lose sippy cups all over this house.

I take 1-2K every day too.

I have no idea if these are appropriate amounts or not (I've read what MT advises re: C but darned if I can remember.) I did start dds out w/less though and worked up.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD 2's cradle cap is back.







I haven't seen this in many many months. It went away totally after eliminating wheat and starting SCD.

I wonder what this is about?









Anybody have any ideas?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn
I know what it's like to get that little sleep. That schedule has been my dd ON A GOOD NIGHT for the last 15 months. Having that little sleep always makes problems seem larger than they are.

Try to focus on the positive and not dwell on the negative and know that this will pass. I know that seems incredibly glib when you're in that







: place but it is true even if it does sound annoying to hear right now.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
May be this is an old issue here, but I am reaching a conclusion that my son gets diaper rash under the penis when his yeast is up. His skin will crack at the base, and gets red bumps where the skin is bright red... I give more yogurt/ probiotics, but does anyone have other suggestions?

Lansinoh. I use it on everything, DS has sensitive skin, and it ALWAYS works.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

: caedmyn

I hear your frustration.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

where can i find the best source of MT's wisdom? Here, elsewhere?

thanks!
megin


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
where can i find the best source of MT's wisdom? Here, elsewhere?

thanks!
megin

Here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983


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## odinsmama (Jul 6, 2006)

hello,
well i will try to be brief, but i know the more info i provide, the more you may be able to offer advice.

i've never had any GI problems before. after i gave birth (10/05) i was still having some gas (like during the pregnancy) but often with a tiny bit of diarrhea. my BMs were normal, maybe a little soft but no big deal.

then when ds was about 2 or 3 months old, my BMs started to become more urgent. i could still go to town and if i had to *go* i would have to hurry across the store to get to the bathroom but i could still manage. there also seemed to be a bit of a routine. mornings were always the worst, but got most of it out. then maybe a small BM around lunch and again at dinner. BMs were soft but not D. still very gassy.

and now, 8 months after the birth, i can't go to town. sometimes i can barely make it from my living room to the toilet. BMs are very urgent. always D in the morning and only sometimes soft during the day. sometimes i even wake up in the night with D. some mild gas cramping.

about a month ago my dr. tested for parasites and found one (dientamoeba fragilis) and treated me for that. 10 days of flagyl. ugh. prior to flagyl my stools were soft and urgent but rarely D. then during and ever since flagyl it has been almost all D. (scd seems to help that some days)

so i saw a GI specialist (i have found that if i fast after dinner the night before i can make it to town okay and not have to worry about having an accident.) and he did a sigmoidoscopy. diagnosed "moderate" UC only about 2 or 3 weeks ago. (he also retested for parasites and they came back negative). so i did all the research i could and found out about the many drug options, as well as the scd. i told him i wanted to try the diet first, before any meds and he was fine with that.

but i have questions for any of you ladies who have BTDT...

many moms have told me that they used Asacol during pregnancy and bfing and it was safe. but i am wondering how long would i have to be on this drug? maybe it depends on how i respond to it?
if i end up trying a drug like this and it works, do i have to wean myself off of it or can i just quit after i've been better for a while?

i am on day 10 of the scd. i have found lots of info on the many sites and forums dedicated to the diet, but i am STILL waiting for my copy of the book BTVC to arrive in the mail. i find a lot of info regarding how the die-off can affect the kids who are on the diet, but not a lot of info about adults with GI symptoms.
how do i know if it's still die off or if it's just the uc? some sources say die off can last 10 days, others say 3 weeks... any insight or personal experiences where that is concerned?
i am still having lots of D, eating bananas and cooked apples to try to firm those up. but i also lost quite a bit of weight before i started and then right at the start of the diet. so i have been using butter and olive oil on my fish to keep my calories up and that seems to have helped. (i am also still bfing ds).

another question (perhaps already answered in the book, sorry if that's the case) is about introducing other foods. i can't really tell if i'm "tolerating" anything since i'm still having D. should i introduce legal foods other than the intro diet even tho i'm not feeling much better?

well thanks for reading! and TIA for any advice, suggestions, feedback... whatever!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quick update.

DD slept really, really well last night!!! I'm thrilled and not thrilled. Yesterday, if you recall, was day one of no fruit for us. I'm torn about cutting out the fungal stuff too (cheese, mushrooms, vinegar etc) I'm trying to keep cheese at a minimum for now, but that is a major staple of our diet. Does anyone know if 24 hour yogurt falls into that category? I'm having trouble finding that out.

Today we went to a play date and another kid shared her cherrios with dd. Luckily she apparently only ate one but still. I'm wondering if that is why going down for her nap was horrible. Or perhaps it is a new day of die off. Yesterday I gave her enzymes twice. Today none. I'm torn about those. I think I'll wait and see what the fruit does for a while first. No fruit in the height of summer is hard! At least I waited untill our rasberry bushes were done bearing.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm torn about cutting out the fungal stuff too (cheese, mushrooms, vinegar etc) I'm trying to keep cheese at a minimum for now, but that is a major staple of our diet. Does anyone know if 24 hour yogurt falls into that category? I'm having trouble finding that out.

The organisms used to culture the yogurt are bacteria, not fungi (yeasts or molds] - I would _think_ that this would mean you're okay with yogurt.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Quick update.

DD slept really, really well last night!!! I'm thrilled and not thrilled. Yesterday, if you recall, was day one of no fruit for us. I'm torn about cutting out the fungal stuff too (cheese, mushrooms, vinegar etc) I'm trying to keep cheese at a minimum for now, but that is a major staple of our diet. Does anyone know if 24 hour yogurt falls into that category? I'm having trouble finding that out.


On the anti-candida diet I'm doing it says dairy (even 24 hr yogurt and kefir) are usually bad for candida sufferers, but I don't think it's a fungal thing.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







caedmyn
I know what it's like to get that little sleep. That schedule has been my dd ON A GOOD NIGHT for the last 15 months. Having that little sleep always makes problems seem larger than they are.

Try to focus on the positive and not dwell on the negative and know that this will pass. I know that seems incredibly glib when you're in that







: place but it is true even if it does sound annoying to hear right now.

I know I really need to not obsess over it so much--other babies sleep so much less I really shouldn't complain. I just feel like I've been dealing with sleep issues (super short naps, fighting to go down for naps, fighting bedtime, etc etc) her whole life and I'm tired of it. But maybe I need to take a break and stop trying to fix it and just let it happen. That might help my mental state even if the sleep issues don't improve.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Thanks for the hugs, everybody--I'm feeling better now









I think the main problem with me & DH is the typical male-female communication problem--he totally communicates like a guy (and isn't interested in changing) and I of course communicate like a woman and can't quite understand his guy talk (or lack of talking). I guess if we keep working at it little by little by the time we've been married 10 years or so we ought to be communicating pretty well. I better not think that far ahead--that's kind of depressing!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I just read this and DID NOT know it! It is from the "Curing Cavities with Nutrition" thread: <<***** You can read Weston Price's chapter on controlling decay (and rest of his groundbreaking book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration") online:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_lib...e/price16.html>>

Quote:

It is important that I emphasize here some dangers that are not usually recognized or properly emphasized in the literature. *When fish oils including cod liver oils are given in too large doses to some patients they experience quite definite symptoms of depression.* The available evidence indicates that fish oils that have been exposed to the air may develop toxic substances. My work and that of others with experimental animals has demonstrated that paralysis can be produced readily by over-dosing. Serious structural damage can be done to hearts and kidneys. I have reported this in considerable detail. (4) My investigations have shown that when a high vitamin natural cod liver oil is used in conjunction with a high vitamin butter oil the mixture is much more efficient than either alone.4 This makes it possible to use very small doses. Except in the late stages of pregnancy I do not prescribe more than half a teaspoonful with each of three meals a day. This procedure appears to obviate completely the undesirable effects. As stated elsewhere fish oils should be stored in small containers to avoid exposure to the air. Rancid fats and oils destroy vitamins A and E, (5) the former in the stomach. (6)
Pat


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Ok, I wrote about my daughters sigestion troubles here : http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481547

and I am now joining you guys here. Today we picked up Udo's infant/toddler probiotic blend and the digestive enzyme blend.

I read through the gut stick on top, but I really cant seem to find anything specific about what I can do for her with her, Im still pretty lost. Accroding to http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm she has issues with her gall bladder, little to no bile production, possibly liver not functioning properly? and I am CERATIN that she has a yeast problem, ever since we had thrush at 4 months I think? when she sweats, sleeps or gets warm she smells VERY strongly of a rising loaf of bread. I was also on clindamycin and penecillin IV antibiotics for 10 days in February for a necrotizing spider bite that ulcerated. She would have got some of that in her system because at the time she was still nursing 5 times a day or so. It really, really messed up both of our guts (mine was horrible, I cried for weeks) and its still really touchy today.

Im going to try putting lemon juice in her water every time she drinks (supposed to stimulate bile production and support liver) ..... I looked at the bitters mixes in the store today and theres no way she will take something that is 30-40% alcohol.

What else can I do for her digestion and yeast? Ive read a few times about a specific carbohydrate diet, but nothing specifying WHAT exactly it is w/o buying the book.

Thanks for any help. I would love to read through all the threads, but I cant find the time right now. soon, soon.

ETA: I dont think I will get ther tested for celiacs just because she does eat a gluten free diet, except the occaional time that dh feeds her pizza. Apparently you have to re-introduce gluten to the diet for 6 weeks before you can take the test (correct me if I am mistaken?), and since I already know she doesnt do well on it, it doesnt seem right to make her eat it just so I can have a positive medical test.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK I need to vent. My DH is being super un-supportive of everything it seems. Every time I try to talk to him about some child-raising issue, he tells me I don't know how babies are supposed to act--I can't believe what people say in books or on bulletin boards or studies or even IRL because people lie and besides their babies aren't unvaxed, BF w/healthy diets for the moms, etc etc. I told him I wanted him to try getting DD in the middle of the night and he was giving me a hard time for always nursing her back to sleep (how the heck else am I supposed to get her to go back to sleep? Patting her doesn't work, and picking her up doesn't work.) I told him I wanted to try giving her a pacifier and he said I couldn't do that. So I told him he better come up with some sleep solutions since he doesn't like anything I do. So he says she's taking too many daytime naps and I shouldn't put her down for a nap until she's cranky. Like he knows anything about when she's tired. She usually takes 4 naps a day for a total of 2 1/2-3 hours of sleep. That is NOT too much daytime sleep for a 6 month old who generally sleeps no more than 10 hours at night. Then he says she takes short naps because I always get her the second she makes a peep and I should just let her cry for a while until she goes back to sleep. He also says that when we're in the car and she cries I should just ignore her, not talk to her, not give her any new toys. (She is starting to be more and more unhappy in the car seat and I really don't know what to do with that.)

And he wonders why we don't talk...like I really want to converse with someone who acts like I'm an idiot and disagrees with me on any topic I bring up.























Sorry for the rant, I just really really needed to let off some steam.









Sorry for the tough situation. I don't know if this will help you but I can share what we started doing with DS when he was around 4 months old and would cry and cry before bed. We have an hour long bedtime routine that starts at 6:30 with 30 min of Baby Einstein. (I know some will disagree with sticking a baby in front of the tube but the routine works for us.) Then 7 pm is his bath with just plain water, he loves playing in the bath! Then we nurse and snuggle and he is very relaxed then we put him in his crib drowsy but awake at 7:30. He is out in a couple of minutes without a peep and has been sleeping until 545. We do the same thing every night and I think part of the success is that he knows the routine. We introduced a 'lovey' (it is a stuffed kitty) that we hand to him and he always sleeps with it. He smiles and gives a little chuckle everytime


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odinsmama*
hello,
another question (perhaps already answered in the book, sorry if that's the case) is about introducing other foods. i can't really tell if i'm "tolerating" anything since i'm still having D. should i introduce legal foods other than the intro diet even tho i'm not feeling much better?

well thanks for reading! and TIA for any advice, suggestions, feedback... whatever!

I am no expert, but i can share my little experience. It took about 2 readings of the BTVC book plus a whole lot of reading on pecanbread.com to make sense of the diet.







: And I feel like I only have a partial grasp on it. Part of the reason for this is that you have to figure out how the diet will work with your body and it will not be the same for any 2 people. I understand that the intro should be followed until D goes away that way when you introduce a new food you will know if it causes D or other symptoms. Come join us on the SCD support thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=445530

I'd like to hear thoughts on this: I have been on SCD for about 3 weeks and after cutting out all fruit (except banana) Nolan's eczema has gone almost completely away. I am dealing with yeast issues and I suspected the sugar in the fruit but I tried honey and it did not bother him. I have tried all in cooked form: apples, pears, peaches and blueberries.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I just made yogurt with homogenized/pasturized milk (organic, grassfed) instead of the only pasturized because that is all I could get at the store this time. I don't know if I was better about the temp, but this yogurt turned out *exactly* like what I would expect from yogurt. Not a single curd (I have been curdleing my yogurt quite a lot lately), tart and thick. What gives?


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Can someone post the 24 hr raw milk yogurt recipe? I tried google but it didn't work.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn,







to you. My DH and I still don't communicate very well, and we've been married 9 years! I think you have to do something, but I'm not sure what. Maybe counseling? We haven't gone because our insurance doesn't cover it, and anyway, we don't have anyone to watch our son.

I used the food diary calculator thingy on fitday.com to figure out whether ds is getting enough nutrition with what he eats, and it was abysmal, especially with vitamin E, A, D, K, and folate. Anyone know of a good SCD legal vitamin that I could give him? I have Carlson's A and D, but noticed that the A has pectin and soy in it! And when I give him cod liver oil, it makes his nose bleed (it's either that or the enzymes, but I'm pretty sure it's the cod liver oil).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma*
p.s. supper was white rice, boiled potatoes, green beans, and yellow squash with sliced tomatoes on the side and leftover whole grain cornbread. seems okay so far...

I hate to say it, but with a diet like that, he's feeding the bad gut bugs and also not getting enough protein. Without eggs, nuts or dairy, he doesn't have a lot of options for protein, especially if legumes aren't tolerated (green beans don't have much protein in them). Could he add some meat to that, and exchange the white rice for either another vegetable, or at least brown rice that's been soaked overnight?

Oh, and Jennie's cookies are macaroons made from coconut, honey, egg whites, and vanilla. They are Maker's Diet approved. If you can eat coconut and honey, you can eat them. I don't know if they are officially SCD legal or not.

Oh, and I've heard that Applegate Farms hot dogs aren't really technically SCD legal, although I'm not sure why not.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK I need to vent. My DH is being super un-supportive of everything it seems. Every time I try to talk to him about some child-raising issue, he tells me I don't know how babies are supposed to act--I can't believe what people say in books or on bulletin boards or studies or even IRL because people lie and besides their babies aren't unvaxed, BF w/healthy diets for the moms, etc etc. I told him I wanted him to try getting DD in the middle of the night and he was giving me a hard time for always nursing her back to sleep (how the heck else am I supposed to get her to go back to sleep? Patting her doesn't work, and picking her up doesn't work.) I told him I wanted to try giving her a pacifier and he said I couldn't do that. So I told him he better come up with some sleep solutions since he doesn't like anything I do. So he says she's taking too many daytime naps and I shouldn't put her down for a nap until she's cranky. Like he knows anything about when she's tired. She usually takes 4 naps a day for a total of 2 1/2-3 hours of sleep. That is NOT too much daytime sleep for a 6 month old who generally sleeps no more than 10 hours at night. Then he says she takes short naps because I always get her the second she makes a peep and I should just let her cry for a while until she goes back to sleep. He also says that when we're in the car and she cries I should just ignore her, not talk to her, not give her any new toys. (She is starting to be more and more unhappy in the car seat and I really don't know what to do with that.)

And he wonders why we don't talk...like I really want to converse with someone who acts like I'm an idiot and disagrees with me on any topic I bring up.























Sorry for the rant, I just really really needed to let off some steam.


I so know what you're talking about! My DH is as unsupportive as can be... except for one thing-he pays the bills- the money I spend on special foods and supplements... but I fear he'll take my credit card away...

My oler DD when she was a baby, up until 7 months or so, would take 30 min. naps during the day, then eat for 15 minutes and be awake for about 2 hours then I had to rock her to sleep in my arms while standing/walking/dancing, hold her the whole time she was sleeping. As soon as I put her down, she would wake up and scream. So this would go on all day, I had no time to cook/clean etc. no onder our diet was so crappy. We had fast food pretty often or I made something really quickly (processed foods).
I'm sure my diet was making things worse in DD, but I didn't know any better.
Anyway... she woke up every 2-3 hours at night to nurse, too. So by the time she was 7 months old, I said I had enough, can't do it any more. So I started putting her down ion her crib for naps, which she hated. She would cry 30 min-1 hour, sometimes 2 before falling asleep. The crying drove me crazy but I had to stick with it to see if what the "expersts" say will work.
Well it did after a week or so... she was able to fall asleep on her own and sleep more and more... I mean more than 30 min. BY the time she was 1 she slept 1 -hour streches, maybe 3 times a day. Ands then 1-1/2, then two naps, one shorter and longer after lunch. And she would wake up only once at night. She did that though for a long time, almost until 2.
With my 2nd DD I was determined to do a different approach from the get-go. I put her down for naps and didn't rock her to sleep, the swing was a great help! SO during the day, it was either the swing, but at night she was put down after feeding into her crib. She would fall asleep without crying, and wake up 3 times for a few months, then 2 times...
When she was really sick recently and weaned herslef, she would wake up 3-4 times but wouldn't nurse just wanted to be comforted. After 2 weeks of not nursing and switching to NT foods she sleeps from 8-5 and takes 3 naps, each about 1-1\2 and 2 hours.

Hope you'll find what is best for you babe... good nutrition surely helps!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD 2's cradle cap is back.







I haven't seen this in many many months. It went away totally after eliminating wheat and starting SCD.

I wonder what this is about?









Anybody have any ideas?

Both of mine have cradle c(r)ap. DD #1 had it bad as a babe, it's better now but not gone. DD #2 has a mild case. The diet did nothing for cc. SOmetimes I do the oiling trick, jojoba or mostly coconut oil, rub it in, leave it for a few hours and then brush and wash. It removes a ton of scales. But I don't know how to eliminate it if the diet didn't do it.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
On the anti-candida diet I'm doing it says dairy (even 24 hr yogurt and kefir) are usually bad for candida sufferers, but I don't think it's a fungal thing.

The SCD yogurt is lactose and yeast-free, so it's not a problem. CHeeses have mold which aggravate candida for some reason. I can't do kefir either-probably the alcohol or maybe the yeast toxins? I'm not sure but I don't tolerate it well.
Dry curd cottage cheese should be OK, as it's not aged (no mold) and no lactose or at least minimal. So you're down to two: yogurt and dccc.

I also find heavy cream OK (no additives), but I take enzymes when I have it jsut in case.

Enzymes do help me. I can eat NT oatmeal for example. But I still do that only occasssionally and still no other grains. I do oatmeal because it's supposed to help heal leaky gut.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Can someone post the 24 hr raw milk yogurt recipe? I tried google but it didn't work.

From the cheat sheet sticky: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=119


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Where can I find these recipes? TIA

Check the first page of the SCD Chefs thread in Meal Planning. Sorry, being lazy and not searching for it myself.







:


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Question for those using enzymes: do you feel they help you, and how do you know?

I've been using them for months and I'm really not sure if they're helping or not. I've just switched brands so maybe that'll help, but I definitely don't think they're the magic cure-all they're sometimes made out to be.

Sleep issues yet again: any more suggestions on how to get DD to stop waking up so much at night? We don't co-sleep and last night she went to bed at 9 (I tried to get her to sleep starting at 7:45 but...) woke up at 1:30, 4, 5:15, and 6:30. She is perfectly capable of going 4 hours between nursings in the daytime so I know she does not need to nurse that often. She barely nurses half the time she wakes up. I've tried "No-Cry Sleep Solution" and it is not helping. In fact I think she is getting worse. I think this weekend I'm going to have DH go in and get her when she cries and maybe she'll figure out that she is not going to get nursed every time she wakes up.

Feel like Jane with my serial posting.









Enzymes. Certainly not a scientific response, but I find I have less symtoms by taking enzymes. I just started with all the Houstons, and haven't quite assessed yet. I finished the Wobenzymes and am now taking Peptizyde, and for whatever reason I feel like the wobenzymes where helping more. Going to give it some more time and see if things improve on Peptizyde.

Re: sleeping. Is cosleeping out of the question? At least then your sleep is less interupted and maybe DD will also sleep better? I tried the No Cry thing for a while, but then let it go, as I found it more disruptive and more manipulative than I was comfortable with.

With DD1 we had significant sleep issues. She just didn't want to sleep that much. I would sometimes spend more time getting her to sleep than she would nap.







: That was hard. I nightweaned her at around 15 months, and it did not affect her nightwakings, i.e. she still woke up. In fact now at age 4.5, she still wakes rather frequently at night. At least now it is improved to the sense that instead of just crying out and us needing to go to her, she often just comes to our bed. DH and I like to sleep at night, so we are fine with this. With DD2, I just prayed that I got a better sleeper. And I did. She has slept better than DD1 pretty much since the beginning. Although, as per usual with any kid, it is not always what we would like, but we have learned to let it go and are much more relaxed about just letting happen what happens. For example, as of the last number of months, DH can get her to sleep for naps w/o much issues, but I CANNOT. After lots of struggles and me really losing my cool, I just don't sweat it if I am the only one home. Either she sleeps or she doesn't, but it is not worth us getting in a tizzy about it. Course, she is 2.5, so that might change things as far as your concerned, or maybe not. She also takes a while to get to sleep at night. What has ended up happening is that I lay with them (they sleep in one bed together) until DD1 is asleep or close to it, and then go. DD2 lays there, sometimes for quite a while "reading" books, and eventually goes to sleep by herself. This would never work with DD1. They are just different kids.









But man, listening to some of your stories about your DH's, well, they make mine seem like seem like a prince. Well, of course we have our issues too, but when it comes to what to do with our kids, nutrition/health, etc, he lets me do my thing and doesn't get in my way. He doesn't take a whole lot of initiative as I would like him to more, but he supports pretty much whatever I do. Then again, that is one reason why I am with him.







I don't think that I could have tolerated an opinionated man thinking he could dictate how I live. I grew up with one of those. That was more than plenty.

And I hope no one takes any offense to the above. No judgement from me, just







!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Re: sleeping. Is cosleeping out of the question? At least then your sleep is less interupted and maybe DD will also sleep better? I tried the No Cry thing for a while, but then let it go, as I found it more disruptive and more manipulative than I was comfortable with.
me too.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I used the food diary calculator thingy on fitday.com to figure out whether ds is getting enough nutrition with what he eats,

THANK YOU for this! This is just the kind of tool I've been looking for.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Re: sleeping. Is cosleeping out of the question? At least then your sleep is less interupted and maybe DD will also sleep better? I tried the No Cry thing for a while, but then let it go, as I found it more disruptive and more manipulative than I was comfortable with.
[/SIZE]

We are moving in about ten days and if the sleep issues haven't improved by then we are going to try sidecar-ing DD's crib to our bed. I got less sleep when we co-slept (she woke more as she got older, and initially woke much less when she went to her own room), but as much as she's waking now, it can't hurt to try it again.

One of my biggest frustrations with the whole sleep thing is that it got better--almost "fixed" I would say--for a bit and then totally fell apart again for no apparent reason. We started with her taking less than 30 minute naps, it taking me longer to get her to nap than she slept, taking 1-2 hours to get her to sleep at night, and a couple of night wakings. Things improved over the month or so that I was working on sleep issues until she went down for naps fairly easily, took 45-75 minute naps consistently, went down at night easily and only cried out once and needed patting once before staying asleep, and only one night waking. That lasted about a week and then fell apart again. I wish I could figure out what caused the regression or whatever. The only thing that stayed was that she still goes down for naps fairly easily, but even that is not as good as it was before. Oh well.

Really my DH is pretty good--he's very supportive of all my weird parenting and NFL ideas, even though we were both totally mainstream when we got married, and he has no problem telling his family to butt out if they don't agree. We just occasionally have meltdowns--I think the lack of sleep contributing to my total lack of interest in sex is probably a big factor in that right at the moment (just what you all wanted to know, right







). I need to keep repeating "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger"!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I don't recall what your DD's health issues are (food intolerances), but isn't that a most likely factor in the sleep thing? Presumably you are trying to figure that all out, but sometimes it helps to know the "reason" even if you can't fix it. Hang in there. I so clearly remember the frustrations of dealing with DD1's sleep stuff, and now, well, it is past and over. But good luck with it. It is hard, indeed.

One good thing we did get from the NCSS is a bedtime routine. We use it to this day.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Sometimes it's really hard to see past the "warnings" that have been engrained from my past.......

So, folks have recommended Vitamin C for DS to mop up toxins as we try to get rid of his yeast and overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria. I got him some today and he loves it. But, should I really be giving him 1gram (ie 1000mg) four times a day? I know I've been told not too many vitamins. And that too much vitamin C will just get peed out. Could too much harm him in any way? Because I'm willing to do it and he's sure willing to eat the tablets, but I just need some reassurance here. It's all making me a bit







: . (I've looked for dosing guidelines online and in MT's thread but couldn't seem to find them......).

And while I'm at it, two other questions: What should I give DS to help the absorption of the Vitamin C. And should he be having any other vitamins or minerals? Long ago we went to a homeopath who said he shouldn't have vitamins because of the inherent coolness (I think) in his body, but that was over half of his life ago. What might be right for him now? He eats almost all carbs (I know, I know) -- loves fruit and gluten-free grains. And goat yogurt and milk. He's allergic to gluten, wheat, cow dairy, soy, strawberries, oats, and won't eat meat. Fun, eh?

Thanks so much!!!!!

megin


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Going back to the cod liver oil issue...
So how am I supposed to store it? So every time I open the bottle air gets in and the oil oxidizes and goes rancid... I store it in the refrigerator, but you can't avoid oxidization. Are the capsules better? Do they make high vitamin capsules? How would the kids take it?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Sometimes it's really hard to see past the "warnings" that have been engrained from my past.......

So, folks have recommended Vitamin C for DS to mop up toxins as we try to get rid of his yeast and overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria. I got him some today and he loves it. But, should I really be giving him 1gram (ie 1000mg) four times a day? I know I've been told not too many vitamins. And that too much vitamin C will just get peed out. Could too much harm him in any way? Because I'm willing to do it and he's sure willing to eat the tablets, but I just need some reassurance here. megin

***I just want to do a word of caution about brushing teeth after chewing Vitamin C tablets. The acidity eats the tooth enamel severely. Especially brushing at night or eating other food after chewing them could help a lot.

I give our 5 year old, who is about 1/4 my weight, ~1/4 of the maximum adult dose of 9000mg/per day, in divided doses. I almost double it when he gets sick~approximately.

Pat


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Going back to the cod liver oil issue...
So how am I supposed to store it? So every time I open the bottle air gets in and the oil oxidizes and goes rancid... I store it in the refrigerator, but you can't avoid oxidization. Are the capsules better? Do they make high vitamin capsules? How would the kids take it?









They do make high vitamin capsules. I wouldn't worry about the oxidization I guess


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Sometimes it's really hard to see past the "warnings" that have been engrained from my past.......

So, folks have recommended Vitamin C for DS to mop up toxins as we try to get rid of his yeast and overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria. I got him some today and he loves it. But, should I really be giving him 1gram (ie 1000mg) four times a day? I know I've been told not too many vitamins. And that too much vitamin C will just get peed out. Could too much harm him in any way? Because I'm willing to do it and he's sure willing to eat the tablets, but I just need some reassurance here. It's all making me a bit







: . (I've looked for dosing guidelines online and in MT's thread but couldn't seem to find them......).

And while I'm at it, two other questions: What should I give DS to help the absorption of the Vitamin C. And should he be having any other vitamins or minerals? Long ago we went to a homeopath who said he shouldn't have vitamins because of the inherent coolness (I think) in his body, but that was over half of his life ago. What might be right for him now? He eats almost all carbs (I know, I know) -- loves fruit and gluten-free grains. And goat yogurt and milk. He's allergic to gluten, wheat, cow dairy, soy, strawberries, oats, and won't eat meat. Fun, eh?

Thanks so much!!!!!

megin

Give vitamin C with food for maximum absorption. It is best to give sodium ascorbate (available online in a powder form) and not ascorbic acid, especially in tablets, as the acidity is very hard on the body. If he's not having diarrhea with the vitamin C, you're not giving him too much. Vitamin C will not hurt him at all even if you give him a lot.

As for other vitamins, are you giving him cod liver oil? A high vitamin CLO (1/2 tsp/day) will really help him and provide him with A & D vitamins. Coconut oil would also be a good thing to give him just for general nutrition and healthy fats, if you can get it into him (mix it with food or whatever).


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

This is awesome, such a busy thread. I signed up for instant email notification and I can't keep up!

Magnesium-I'll have to look at the store to find what brand I thought was good-I ran out and bought Natural Calm thinking it would be better. Two nights in a row my sleep was terrible even though I used Natural Calm and Calmzyme and last night I was so tired I just said forget it all and I slept great! So what do you know, the mind can be more powerful than any of these supplements!

I have never done the SCD, I guess because I wasn't convinced it would get rid of my yeast. Recently I did order and read a pretty comprehensive book on candida called The Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook by Martin and Zoltan. Interestingly, in there the SCD is mentioned in the section written by Zoltan (who is an MD) but it is not recommended as a diet to cure yeast.

Some of the things they said I tried and found they worked for me. For instance, they say it is okay to eat PLAIN (unflavored) yogurt if you mix some probiotics in it first. (The 24hr yogurt just took too much time. I had to make a special trip to get the raw milk, and I couldn't stand the watery consistency.) Also, they say most fruits (although they don't recommend bananas, since they are so sweet) can be eaten by themselves at least an hour before eating anything else. Also--one must eliminate all sugars except stevia, and all breads-refined flours, white rice, and white potatoes.

When I did it, in combination with enzymes and oregano tablets, my bloating was gone in two weeks.

The sleeping problem (with children) is hard. I'm working on it with my almost 2 yr old who nurses to sleep and nurses to stay asleep! When DH isn't supportive, it makes it way harder. My DH moved to another bedroom months ago, and I sleep with dd in the kingsize bed, which I love doing! One thing I have found is if I eat too much chocolate (caeffine), her sleep and mine will be restless. Drinking strong camomile tea before bed helps; it travels through the breastmilk. I know some say camomile is an allergen, but we never had any issues with it.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Cod liver oil- so they say that it is good to take CLO with animal fats, do they mean butter or creme? And what is creme freshe, is it SCD legal?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Cod liver oil- so they say that it is good to take CLO with animal fats, do they mean butter or creme? And what is creme freshe, is it SCD legal?

Either butter or cream w/the CLO. I think creme freche (sp?) would be legal if it were cultured long enough. Although I guess if butter is legal, something made from cream should be legal, too


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andrea*
Ok, I wrote about my daughters sigestion troubles here : http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481547

and I am now joining you guys here. Today we picked up Udo's infant/toddler probiotic blend and the digestive enzyme blend.

I read through the gut stick on top, but I really cant seem to find anything specific about what I can do for her with her, Im still pretty lost. Accroding to http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm she has issues with her gall bladder, little to no bile production, possibly liver not functioning properly? and I am CERATIN that she has a yeast problem, ever since we had thrush at 4 months I think? when she sweats, sleeps or gets warm she smells VERY strongly of a rising loaf of bread. I was also on clindamycin and penecillin IV antibiotics for 10 days in February for a necrotizing spider bite that ulcerated. She would have got some of that in her system because at the time she was still nursing 5 times a day or so. It really, really messed up both of our guts (mine was horrible, I cried for weeks) and its still really touchy today.

Im going to try putting lemon juice in her water every time she drinks (supposed to stimulate bile production and support liver) ..... I looked at the bitters mixes in the store today and theres no way she will take something that is 30-40% alcohol.

What else can I do for her digestion and yeast? Ive read a few times about a specific carbohydrate diet, but nothing specifying WHAT exactly it is w/o buying the book.

Thanks for any help. I would love to read through all the threads, but I cant find the time right now. soon, soon.

ETA: I dont think I will get ther tested for celiacs just because she does eat a gluten free diet, except the occaional time that dh feeds her pizza. Apparently you have to re-introduce gluten to the diet for 6 weeks before you can take the test (correct me if I am mistaken?), and since I already know she doesnt do well on it, it doesnt seem right to make her eat it just so I can have a positive medical test.

Occasional pizza can be very damaging to a celiac. What happens is that the intestinal villi (the little fingers that help digest our food) react to gluten and get completely shorn off. Once gluten is removed, they start to grow back. Keep eating gluten and they keep getting mowed down.

My understanding is that the challenge test with gluten is old. It is not necessary to do a biopsy. It's a simple blood test now.

More on SCD here:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm

The Cheat Sheet should be helpful.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
***I just want to do a word of caution about brushing teeth after chewing Vitamin C tablets. The acidity eats the tooth enamel severely. Especially brushing at night or eating other food after chewing them could help a lot.

I give our 5 year old, who is about 1/4 my weight, ~1/4 of the maximum adult dose of 9000mg/per day, in divided doses. I almost double it when he gets sick~approximately.

Pat

I don't think any chewable vitamin C is recommended at all. Smilemomma over in Dental warned about it all the time.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

EBG, I just happened to come across this from here.

Quote:

Another concern is rancidity. Cod liver oil can become rancid if improperly handled. In a 1988 study, peroxide values (indicating rancidity) ranged from a low of 2 to a high of 44.7.44 Nevertheless, properly handled cod liver oil is relatively stable. It contains 21 percent saturated fatty acids and 57 percent monounsaturated fatty acids, which provide stability. The fishy smell of cod liver oil is due to the presence of small amounts of fish protein and is not a sign of rancidity. To ensure that your cod liver oil is fresh, avoid buying the large economy size or the end-of-season sale item. Buy cod liver oil in small dark bottles and keep them in a cool dark place. Cod liver oil need not be refrigerated after opening if it is used up quickly-within two months.
I buy the cinnamon ice and it's in a dark blue bottle. I've never had a problem w/rancidity.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
Sometimes it's really hard to see past the "warnings" that have been engrained from my past.......

So, folks have recommended Vitamin C for DS to mop up toxins as we try to get rid of his yeast and overgrowth of anaerobic bacteria. I got him some today and he loves it. But, should I really be giving him 1gram (ie 1000mg) four times a day? I know I've been told not too many vitamins. And that too much vitamin C will just get peed out. Could too much harm him in any way? Because I'm willing to do it and he's sure willing to eat the tablets, but I just need some reassurance here. It's all making me a bit







: . (I've looked for dosing guidelines online and in MT's thread but couldn't seem to find them......).

And while I'm at it, two other questions: What should I give DS to help the absorption of the Vitamin C. And should he be having any other vitamins or minerals? Long ago we went to a homeopath who said he shouldn't have vitamins because of the inherent coolness (I think) in his body, but that was over half of his life ago. What might be right for him now? He eats almost all carbs (I know, I know) -- loves fruit and gluten-free grains. And goat yogurt and milk. He's allergic to gluten, wheat, cow dairy, soy, strawberries, oats, and won't eat meat. Fun, eh?

Thanks so much!!!!!

megin

See nutrients for gut healing in Cheat Sheet. Make sure the grains he does eat and whole and soaked.

If you want to learn more about Vit. C, Levy's book is a good resource. Some articles on
http://www.doctoryourself.com/levy.html
http://www.*********/a/levy_h.html
http://www.tomlevymd.com/

The thread here at Mothering to read is entitled "Sodium Ascorbate" I think I just posted the link in SCD Chefs thread.

There's never been any warnings about vitamin C??


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Question for those using enzymes: do you feel they help you, and how do you know?

I've been using them for months and I'm really not sure if they're helping or not. I've just switched brands so maybe that'll help, but I definitely don't think they're the magic cure-all they're sometimes made out to be.

Sleep issues yet again: any more suggestions on how to get DD to stop waking up so much at night? We don't co-sleep and last night she went to bed at 9 (I tried to get her to sleep starting at 7:45 but...) woke up at 1:30, 4, 5:15, and 6:30. She is perfectly capable of going 4 hours between nursings in the daytime so I know she does not need to nurse that often. She barely nurses half the time she wakes up. I've tried "No-Cry Sleep Solution" and it is not helping. In fact I think she is getting worse. I think this weekend I'm going to have DH go in and get her when she cries and maybe she'll figure out that she is not going to get nursed every time she wakes up.

*
I don't think I could have healed without enzymes.*

And for me, that meant getting used to the high proteases on an empty stomach that made the most difference, first thing AM and last thing PM. Probably reduced gut pathogens and inflammation. As well as high proteases with meals enabled me to absorb amino acids.

When I had thrush while bf'ing, Candex worked terrifically. I didn't know why then. Candidase is a bit different, it has very high proteases so would probably work on both Candida and bad bacterial issues.

I think the proteases are the one reason why Karen DeFelice talks about the Happy Child effect with Zyme Prime and Peptizyde. Sadly, it's been a nightmare to get DS used to Pep., as he reacts with hyperactivity too. I put that plan yet again on hold while I tried out homeopathy and herbs and apparently those are not cutting it in the long term. We've seen some gains and then he just regresses, it's so freakin' frustrating I cannot tell you. So I might just try proteases again.
*
Re: sleeping*

It still goes in cycles here, not long ago DS had a couple of weeks where he would stay up for an hour in the middle of the night. Now he just wakes up and needs to be reassured back to sleep, but then awakens at 6:15AM crying b/c he's still tired. At least he's napping, but again, cries a lot b/c he wakes up tired. He's been like this since birth off and on. The sleep fighting etc. has worn us down. DH and I are not the same people anymore, it's really, really hard. But I have to be thankful that it's "only" that, I know there are kids worse off than he.

And I'll say it again, I know what kind of night we are going to have by his poop. If it's mush, it's going to be a bad one.

I'm also trying to work up to at least 4 grams of vit. C/day in 4 divided doses or in his drinks. The formula I've used is 1 gram/day per every 10lbs of child but I think MT in Nut/Imm 101, recently said it should be more and I posted her formula there too.

I do think the toxins have a great effect on his sleeping. But it's hard to know his bowel tolerance since he still has reactions a couple times/month. He also takes bioflavonoids, very important with sodiuim ascorbate or other chemical form of C.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Annikate, vitamin C washes out of the body in something fast like an hour. It's best to give in divided doses.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Although I guess if butter is legal, something made from cream should be legal, too









No cream still has significant lactose, not a lot but measureable amounts I guess.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Beanma,

Is it all nuts that cause canker sores for DH or just certain ones like peanuts? CS also means something nutritionally but I forget what it is. B vits??? Sorry not more helpful!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I do think the toxins have a great effect on his sleeping. But it's hard to know his bowel tolerance since he still has reactions a couple times/month. He also takes bioflavonoids, very important with sodiuim ascorbate or other chemical form of C.
I didn't know about this. What brand do you use for ds?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Another post about sleep:

I realized only today that whenever dd1 (who is currently co-sleeping w/dh) has a restless night, the next morning she's got what I think is a sign of yeast. This morning she had a red patch that looked like a sunburn on her cheek.

Can die off make symptoms come and go? I mean, I don't know where this is coming from. Nothing in her diet has changed. Could it be another round of die off?

I can't wait for the results of her stool analysis to come!


----------



## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I think creme freche (sp?) would be legal if it were cultured long enough. Although I guess if butter is legal, something made from cream should be legal, too









Creme Fraiche is nothing more than cultured cream. The nutrition label for Creme Fraiche (from the Vermont Butter and Cheese co.) shows less than 1 gram of sugar per 1 oz serving, and 1 gram of carb per 1 oz. serving. Not sure if that makes it SCD legal or not?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: Creme Fraiche

There is a recipe for it in BTVC but I misplaced my copy a few weeks ago and haven't been able to find it since.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*
I don't think I could have healed without enzymes.*

And for me, that meant getting used to the high proteases on an empty stomach that made the most difference, first thing AM and last thing PM. Probably reduced gut pathogens and inflammation. As well as high proteases with meals enabled me to absorb amino acids.

When I had thrush while bf'ing, Candex worked terrifically. I didn't know why then. Candidase is a bit different, it has very high proteases so would probably work on both Candida and bad bacterial issues.


Did you sprinkle the enzymes over food as well as taking it on an emty stomach?

Sleep-I never thought to connect sleep with gut issues







. DS and I had a challenging day today due to die off. We were both feverish, he wanted to nurse all day, he was very rough with me while BF and he would not take an afternoon nap. Poor little guy, I feel bad that I am putting him through this but there is no other way to get better.

This is a little off topic but I think my cat has a yeast problem, can I just put some enzymes in his food?


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Beanma,

Is it all nuts that cause canker sores for DH or just certain ones like peanuts? CS also means something nutritionally but I forget what it is. B vits??? Sorry not more helpful!

i think he decided that peanuts were the worst offender, but felt the others were possible suspects as well. i wouldn't classify it as an allergy or anything, just one more weird sensitivity. he does take some supps and B is one. thanks.


----------



## Kyamo (Jun 14, 2006)

If you get canker sores, switch to a toothpaste without Sodium Lauryl Sulfate. Most of the main ones do contain it, and they usually aren't labelled on the package, check the website or call the company. Most of the ones without are quite a bit more expensive, but it has made such a difference. Since switching to Sensodyne, I get much fewer of them, and the ones I do get are less severe and heal quicker. http://www.animated-teeth.com/canker...nker_sores.htm


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't think any chewable vitamin C is recommended at all. Smilemomma over in Dental warned about it all the time.

Yeah, wish *I* had known.







:

Pat


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
EBG, I just happened to come across this from here.

I buy the cinnamon ice and it's in a dark blue bottle. I've never had a problem w/rancidity.

Thanks! Mine is a dark bottle too, Carlson, or GOL, and I do use it up quickly, but you can't help opening it all the time, so air will get in.
How do you know if it's rancid?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I'm not sure how close this is to creme freche, but my yogourmet starter says you can make creme bulgare the same way you make yogurt only use cream. I haven't tried it yet, though. I made creme freche according to NT, it came out OK. I fermented it for about 24 hours. I don't know if it's lactose free this way or not.... but cream has minimal lactose to start with.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Vitamin C:

I have the NOW acerola (I know the maltodextrin is illegal) and it says 1 tsp will provide 180 mg of Vitamin C. This souds so little, why does Sally Fallon recommend it? How much do I need to take? How about a 1 yr-old.
If I get sodium ascorbate, is there one with biofloavonoids? What kind of biofalvonoids do you all take with C?
So if chewable C is bad for your teeth, how about under-the-tongue dissolving tablets? Hyland has a children's C sodium ascorbate. The only ingredient is lactose besides the C. I give it to my 2 y-o. with food and enzymes.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

What about magnesium ascorbate (NOW)? Would it be an OK form of magnesium?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Another post about sleep:

I realized only today that whenever dd1 (who is currently co-sleeping w/dh) has a restless night, the next morning she's got what I think is a sign of yeast. This morning she had a red patch that looked like a sunburn on her cheek.

Can die off make symptoms come and go? I mean, I don't know where this is coming from. Nothing in her diet has changed. Could it be another round of die off?

I can't wait for the results of her stool analysis to come!

The info on die-off on this yahoo group I'm on says that the healing process can go back through the old symptoms, if that makes any sense. I don't know how accurate that is, but that's what it says.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Vitamin C:

I have the NOW acerola (I know the maltodextrin is illegal) and it says 1 tsp will provide 180 mg of Vitamin C. This souds so little, why does Sally Fallon recommend it? How much do I need to take? How about a 1 yr-old.
If I get sodium ascorbate, is there one with biofloavonoids? What kind of biofalvonoids do you all take with C?
So if chewable C is bad for your teeth, how about under-the-tongue dissolving tablets? Hyland has a children's C sodium ascorbate. The only ingredient is lactose besides the C. I give it to my 2 y-o. with food and enzymes.

I've read that with natural forms of vitamin C, the dose is 1/10th of what it would be with chemical forms--so your 180 mg of acerola equals almost 2 grams of sodium ascorbate, if that is accurate.

I haven't found sodium ascorbate with bioflavonoids. I've been taking NOW biovflavonoids. The recommendation I found for what bioflavonoids to take says rosehips, citrus bioflavonoids, hesperidin, and rutin. I couldn't find one that had all four--the NOW one doesn't have rosehips.

As far as I know it's only chewable ascorbic acid that is bad for the teeth.


----------



## pumpkinseed (Aug 6, 2005)

Hello!
Thank you, Moonshine for directing me here!
This is really a great thread-I am learning so much and am new to all of this. I have a question regarding CLO. How much do you take? And do you also give it to your little ones? I was reading some information that was saying NOT to take CLO in the summer months due to possible Vit D toxicity? Also that infants/toddlers should not take CLO? Just a little confused. How does this compare to just fish oil or flaxseed oil-benefits/disadvantages?
Thanks!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*
I don't think I could have healed without enzymes.*

And for me, that meant getting used to the high proteases on an empty stomach that made the most difference, first thing AM and last thing PM. Probably reduced gut pathogens and inflammation. As well as high proteases with meals enabled me to absorb amino acids.

When I had thrush while bf'ing, Candex worked terrifically. I didn't know why then. Candidase is a bit different, it has very high proteases so would probably work on both Candida and bad bacterial issues.

I think the proteases are the one reason why Karen DeFelice talks about the Happy Child effect with Zyme Prime and Peptizyde. Sadly, it's been a nightmare to get DS used to Pep., as he reacts with hyperactivity too. I put that plan yet again on hold while I tried out homeopathy and herbs and apparently those are not cutting it in the long term. We've seen some gains and then he just regresses, it's so freakin' frustrating I cannot tell you. So I might just try proteases again.
[

What signs did you see that enzymes in between meals helped you?

BTW I was reading an archive on onibasu (sp?) and the conversation was indicating that Karen DeFelice might be fudging a bit on the effectiveness of enzymes for her family--it was saying that in posts on the Enzymes & Autism yahoo group she had indicated that one of her sons was still on a pretty restricted diet. Of course I have no idea if this is actually true or not, but it made me wonder.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

has anyone tried "Pure Radiance C" as a form of vitamin C with bioflavonoids?

http://www.synergy-co.com/pages/pure-radiance.html

on canker sores (from http://www.naturalchoice.net/articles/DrWright.htm)

"Do you have recurrent canker sores (sometimes called apthous ulcers)? If so, there's a high probability that identification, elimination, and desensitization of food allergies will lessen or even eliminate recurrences. Sodium lauryl sulfate, an ingredient in some toothpastes, can contribute to canker sore formation, too. You can also eliminate or reduce canker sores by using Lactobacillus acidophilus, iron, B12, and folate."


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

this has much more to do with autism and related disorders, but there is a lot of information on digestion. beware - the pdf is 179 pgs long.

http://www.tacanow.com/pdf/KIRKMANBOOK.PDF


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

caedmyn said:


> I've read that with natural forms of vitamin C, the dose is 1/10th of what it would be with chemical forms--so your 180 mg of acerola equals almost 2 grams of sodium ascorbate, if that is accurate.
> 
> Really? Cool. Do you remember a website or book? I have to check my NT...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
this has much more to do with autism and related disorders, but there is a lot of information on digestion. beware - the pdf is 179 pgs long.

http://www.tacanow.com/pdf/KIRKMANBOOK.PDF


















:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I didn't know about this. What brand do you use for ds?

Both Paradise herbs Amla powder (which is a whole vit. C) and Quercitin.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Yeah, wish *I* had known.







:

Pat









Mamas can't know everything but there are certainly those of use who try isn't there! It's quite overwhelming sometimes.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

EBG-I live in the same area (Reston) and am wondering if you buy raw milk to make yogurt, and if you do where do you buy it? I was just reading about how in VA it is illegal to buy or sell raw milk. GRRR. I also read about buying 'shares' of a cow (it is legal to consume raw milk from a cow you own). Big thanks to my legislators for making healthy living easier.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What signs did you see that enzymes in between meals helped you?

Um... poop quality.









For someone who had spent the last 4 years in the bathroom multiple times a day or moaning the fact that I was NOT going at all ... it was so nice to just go in and be done with it quickly, easily and dare I say it ... comfortably. In and out, nothing really to um, wipe off afterwards. My food was obviously getting better digested.

My moods and sleeping improved noticeably, even better than the better I thought was better. (Follow that?







)

And my s&*t finally didn't stink.

I know you are







: but I'm serious!! There's normal poop smell and then there's SMELL. You really can tell all by that in adults not just bf babes.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And I do have a username change coming but NOT because of that laugh post!









Edit:







I meant to say "last post"!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
has anyone tried "Pure Radiance C" as a form of vitamin C with bioflavonoids?

http://www.synergy-co.com/pages/pure-radiance.html

Yes of course I have it! Eh, it's good I guess. Didn't make me automatically 10 years younger or anything like that. Expensive little bugger.

There are 2 amla powders/capsules at www.papanature.com that are filler free I think, we have Paradise Herbs.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinseed*
Hello!
Thank you, Moonshine for directing me here!
This is really a great thread-I am learning so much and am new to all of this. I have a question regarding CLO. How much do you take? And do you also give it to your little ones? I was reading some information that was saying NOT to take CLO in the summer months due to possible Vit D toxicity? Also that infants/toddlers should not take CLO? Just a little confused. How does this compare to just fish oil or flaxseed oil-benefits/disadvantages?
Thanks!

Yes, vitamin D without vitamin A should not be taken during summer months. But if you are taking high vitamin cod liver oil, there is not a concern. The two vitamins work in tandem to prevent each other's toxicity, this is very important and has been studied to death by the Weston Price foundation. Their most recent newsletter had a huge tome on it but it's not published online at their site yet, the issue has not sold out. It's at www.greenpasture.org under the title "Vitamin A on Trial"

This is probably the sole reason Mercola saw toxicity with his patients he was treating with vit. D. He didnt' give CLO or vitamin A. He gave D only.









And now he's hawking krill oil









Dosage and brand recs here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Infants should get their CLO thru breastmilk, with the mama taking at least 1 tablespoon IMO.

Toddlers there is no issue unless they have a reaction.

CLO is vastly superior to flax since the EPA/DHA is already converted so the body can use the fatty acids, plus the vitamins A and D that are essential for so many things. Spend some time reading at the WAPF site.

Fish oils become oxidized if vit. A and D is not present when the fatty acids are absorbed into our cells. The article, "Dioxins: A Case for Vegetarianism?" on WAPF talks about this b/c it actually shows how superior nutrition allows our bodies to filter out toxins. Plus many fish oils are of poor quality and they are already rancid. Capsules subjected to heat processing especially. (and why CLO in capsules is not recommended.)

CLO and fat soluble vitamins are one of my favorite things to blab about! Once I read Weston Price's book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" how could I not be enamored of it.

I'm in a weeeeird mood tonight. I think I need to go watch Project Runway or something.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--were you taking Houston enzymes at the beginning? Maybe I need to get some of those instead as I'm not sure mine are helping me much if at all.


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Oh Gawd, I feel like a total mess









SCD is going well, but for some reason over the past 3 days, I've developed a terrible back-ache. As it gets worse, so does a headache that I seemed to have got at the same time. I've not done any lifting etc. out of the ordinary.

I used a hot compress on my back tonight and while it relieved the pain somewhat, my head still hurts and a few minutes after the compress cooled off, my back started hurting really badly again.

Any ideas what this could be, and what I can do about it?

If it helps, I'm going in to the drop in clinic tomorrow to get me B12 injections, so I can request other tests/procedures while there.

Oh why does it just seem like it's one thing after the other with my health? It almost seems like this might be something much larger than I expect


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Um... poop quality.









For someone who had spent the last 4 years in the bathroom multiple times a day or moaning the fact that I was NOT going at all ... it was so nice to just go in and be done with it quickly, easily and dare I say it ... comfortably. In and out, nothing really to um, wipe off afterwards. My food was obviously getting better digested.

My moods and sleeping improved noticeably, even better than the better I thought was better. (Follow that?







)

And my s&*t finally didn't stink.

I know you are







: but I'm serious!! There's normal poop smell and then there's SMELL. You really can tell all by that in adults not just bf babes.

I heard Oprah did a whole segment (no pun intended) about poop quality. And just as you describe was the *ideal poop*. Now we all know that your *hit doesn't stink.









Here! I found a review of the show! http://www.hawaiistories.com/kane/2005/08/

And another one! http://www.oprah.com/health/yourbody...tion_101.jhtml

Pat


----------



## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

We started the SCD yesterday and my DS wouldn't eat any of the foods but the jello. This is what I was afraid of since he is such a picky eater. So this morning I made some chicken in the oven with honey drizzled on it and he ate it like it was the best thing ever. I am hoping the honey is ok since you can have the cheesecake which has honey in it.

When do die-off symptoms usually start? I don't really have any symptoms yet other than I haven't had a BM and I have what feels like indigestion. DS hasn't had a decent BM yet either just a really small one yesterday. He usually has at least 3 massive ones a day.

Do you usually give the supplements right from the start or wait until you are through intro?

I put shea butter w/ EPO in it on DS for his eczema, is it OK to keep putting this on him or should I not since shea is a nut?

Sorry for all the questions I just want to make sure I'm doing this right!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--were you taking Houston enzymes at the beginning? Maybe I need to get some of those instead as I'm not sure mine are helping me much if at all.

No, I did diet only for several months.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
No, I did diet only for several months.

I'm confused...did you feel like the diet alone was helping you? But then you saw positive improvements after you added enzymes? What enzymes were you using when you saw improvements, and did you see any difference when you switched to different enzymes?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I heard Oprah did a whole segment (no pun intended) about poop quality. And just as you describe was the *ideal poop*. Now we all know that your *hit doesn't stink.









Here! I found a review of the show! http://www.hawaiistories.com/kane/2005/08/

And another one! http://www.oprah.com/health/yourbody...tion_101.jhtml

Pat

No way!!!!! I'm sorry I missed this... thanks for the links.









Dr. Oz is very wrong about gas though. It's not normal. The 14x/day must still be on a SAD diet with less than adequate probiotics. I hardly ever have gas now. Only certain raw vegetables once a great while. He recommended soybeans, argh, that would certainly produce a lot of gas. Artichokes too have a lot of a certain indigestible sugar.

And as usual he doesn't mention probiotics and instead relies on the mistaken assumption that unsoaked whole grains are beneficial to digestion and health. While they are "moving along digestive tract absorbing cholesterol and such" they are also preventing minerals from being absorbed and inhibiting digestive enzymes. And thus likely producing gas from fermentation.

The study of several native diets with no fiber (Eskimos, certain dairy herding African tribes) still resulted in perfect digestion. It's the intestinal flora, not fiber.

Baby aspririn, yeah THAT'S really great for your intestinal lining! NOT.
And coffee too! another mechanical means to get bowels moving but ignorant of the damage that occurs.









And don't forget medication too. Can't be healthy without that.

Sorry I'm being so negative!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I'm confused...did you feel like the diet alone was helping you? But then you saw positive improvements after you added enzymes? What enzymes were you using when you saw improvements, and did you see any difference when you switched to different enzymes?

Yes diet was enormously helpful! But I think using enzymes enabled me to heal quicker and go off SCD much shorter than the usual 1 year + timeline. I didn't have gas or bloating or bowel issues on diet (edit: unless I ate something before I was ready for it), but adding enzymes really kicked thinks up and healed me.

I used Houston's first. Had a nightmare of a time with Peptizyde but reintroduced very slowly. With meals, then in between. Then I moved on to other enzymes for all around product in place of Zyme Prime: Enzymedica. Thropps. Now I just take Thropps usually. Peptizyde once in a while but T. has a lot of proteases too.

Now I don't know if I would have had this experience without partway healing with diet too.... ?

And possibly the reason I had a good experience with SCD within a week or two is that before that I had seen some good results from raw milk kefir everyday ... ? And before that, Elmination Diet/Rotation Diet including no sugar.

So really I have been at this for a year or much longer. Just different successive regimes. I've tried everything!


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Here are my stinky pit stories:

1. Upping my selenium from 100 to 200 mg gave me a week or two of smelliness.

2. Any kind of "killer" like tea tree oil doesn't work at all for me. This being summer I figured I'd try some natural deoderant with TTO. *Peee-U!* OMG I was so horrified at myself.

Went back to just using either Burt's Bees or Lush Silky Underwear powder after my shower and I'm fine even hiking in woods. Which is surprising b/c they are cornstarch based. But I wonder if it really is the skin flora deal, upsetting the balance does something.

i've been reading a bit about stinky pits and the most sensible thing i read (gah, misplaced the link now) is that it is likely a combination of detox and zinc deficiency.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

stupid unsearch function.... didn't somebody ask about healing your pet's gut?

i found an awesome article on cat and dog intestinal microbes: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/134/8/2022S


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I make Creme Bulgare using the yogurmet starter, and its' yummy. Use it to make ice cream, as a topping, in NT recipes, etc. Now, if I could only stop getting migraines when I eat cow's milk, I'd be in heaven.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
EBG-I live in the same area (Reston) and am wondering if you buy raw milk to make yogurt, and if you do where do you buy it? I was just reading about how in VA it is illegal to buy or sell raw milk. GRRR. I also read about buying 'shares' of a cow (it is legal to consume raw milk from a cow you own). Big thanks to my legislators for making healthy living easier.

Here are the Virginia resources:
http://www.westonaprice.org/localcha...Resources.html
Virginia
There's a contact for Reston, too. In principle you need to buy a cowshare, but it's really not a big deal and not a lot of money. The contact person might be able to help you without the cowshare, too.

Unfortuantely my DH doesn't let me get raw dairy so I use pasturized. Whole foods carries unhomogenized milk. They also carry Natural By Nature which is grass-fed but pasturized.

I'm still hoping to find something in the Mount Vernon area where I live...and hoping for DH to change his mind.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I make Creme Bulgare using the yogurmet starter, and its' yummy. Use it to make ice cream, as a topping, in NT recipes, etc. Now, if I could only stop getting migraines when I eat cow's milk, I'd be in heaven.

Do you use raw cream?
I have access to pasturized cream only. Would you boil that, too, like the milk, and then cool it down, etc...?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I make Creme Bulgare using the yogurmet starter, and its' yummy. Use it to make ice cream, as a topping, in NT recipes, etc. Now, if I could only stop getting migraines when I eat cow's milk, I'd be in heaven.

Oh boy,I have had a mean headache ( I have suffered with migraines for years) for the past few days, wonder if it is the yogurt I started last Sunday. I love it though! I thought it may be due to more die-off. Shoot if it's not one thing bothering me it's another.

Sometimes I wish I was just normal, and ignorant. Ignorance=bliss?


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Oh Gawd, I feel like a total mess









SCD is going well, but for some reason over the past 3 days, I've developed a terrible back-ache. As it gets worse, so does a headache that I seemed to have got at the same time. I've not done any lifting etc. out of the ordinary.

I used a hot compress on my back tonight and while it relieved the pain somewhat, my head still hurts and a few minutes after the compress cooled off, my back started hurting really badly again.


I love my chiro. He cured my husband's back/neck pain when he was being scheduled for surgery to repair it. Chiro says ice for 20 minutes on, as often as necessary, with at least 30 minutes ice off. This fixes a lot in about 24 hours. The adjustments help too. The headache may well be related to the back.

Pat


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Hullo. Sometimes I feel out of place on this board cause I'm not following SCD. I'm seeing an ND and just trying to do everything she tells me to. I haven't asked her about SCD, but I doubt that I could do it given that I'm a vegetarian, have been allergic to eggs, and have old ED issues that make home cooking way more of a struggle. Not to mention the low energy from poor digestion, I dunno how you guys do it!

In an ideal world I'd like to undertake SCD, but given the way things actually are, I'd rather approach it in other ways. Is there anybody else around here working on healing their gut without SCD, or just somewhat guided by it?

My ND has come to the conclusion that what I have is mainly a parasite. Because I got a major YI despite being on significant probiotics, and am still having problems but my food allergies have diminished. So I'm starting a anti-parasite black walnut herbal combination along with my detox support meds. This is all over my head! Especially since the time I can ask questions is limited. I could email her a lot of questions but I would rather just follow her perscriptions.

My energy level is back to normal, with occasional dips. I had a month where it was really low most of the time, so that's finally over. My skin is a million times better, and my joints are quite reasonable, though I still have a ways to go. My digestion seems much better, as long as I avoid spicy foods and the (possibly rancid) oily-creamy things that have always bothered me.

Um, that would be my tummy-level-digestion which is better... on the poop level, it ain't so good. What exactly is causing the problem? My DP eats the same food as me, and he poops fine! (I'm still not quite used to discussing these things!) I'm not really sure what it is but it's as though it's too soft but with a hard core, or just random hard parts. And very small amounts. Hrm, TMI, whee. I'm taking a couple things to get it better for the time being, but when can I expect it to improve on its own?

I also have to keep working on drinking enough water. I do drink a lot more than I used to, though.

Has anyone gotten into juicing for this stuff? Now that my weight's back up, I'm considering it, but IME juicers are really hard to clean. Although the juicers I used were all old. Have things improved?

ETA: After saying that I checked a document on an anti-candida diet my ND sent me and it's remotely similar to SCD, mainly about getting lower carbohydrates. Oh boy!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I got a gallon of raw milk today.







$1.50! Too bad I don't live that close to it anymore to get it regularly. Now to figure out how to make yogurt. Heat to 110, right?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
Hullo. Sometimes I feel out of place on this board cause I'm not following SCD. I'm seeing an ND and just trying to do everything she tells me to. I haven't asked her about SCD, but I doubt that I could do it given that I'm a vegetarian, have been allergic to eggs, and have old ED issues that make home cooking way more of a struggle. Not to mention the low energy from poor digestion, I dunno how you guys do it!

My ND has come to the conclusion that what I have is mainly a parasite. Because I got a major YI despite being on significant probiotics, and am still having problems but my food allergies have diminished. So I'm starting a anti-parasite black walnut herbal combination along with my detox support meds. This is all over my head! Especially since the time I can ask questions is limited. I could email her a lot of questions but I would rather just follow her perscriptions.

Sphinxie-Welcome! Sometimes I feel out of place on this board because I know so little about diet and nutrition, but I'm here to learn. There are plenty of people here not on SCD that do other modified diets and they will be able to give you a lot of insight to nutrition.

I think you should ask your ND questions! How else can you know why she is suggesting one treatment over another? I think email would be a perfect way to ask them that way you have everything written down and maybe she would even provide links to articles to back up her thinking. You are paying for her services, take advantage!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

bluets- thanks for the pet link!

EBG-thanks for the info on the raw milk, I am going to look into it!

*For those of you with migraines*- What kind of time frame do your 'trigger' foods usually have? How have your heal-the gut diets affected your migraines?

I usually count a food as a 'trigger' if it causes a headache the same day (my usual triggers will cause a headache or pre-headache within a few hours.) BUt being on this diet is making me see that food reactions can take much longer. I suspect that my migraines are partially caused by gut problems, but this will take many months to see. For now I am trying all foods legal to SCD even if I had previously beleived them to be a trigger.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
bluets- thanks for the pet link!

EBG-thanks for the info on the raw milk, I am going to look into it!

*For those of you with migraines*- What kind of time frame do your 'trigger' foods usually have? How have your heal-the gut diets affected your migraines?

I usually count a food as a 'trigger' if it causes a headache the same day (my usual triggers will cause a headache or pre-headache within a few hours.) BUt being on this diet is making me see that food reactions can take much longer. I suspect that my migraines are partially caused by gut problems, but this will take many months to see. For now I am trying all foods legal to SCD even if I had previously beleived them to be a trigger.


A few years ago I used to have migraine headaches almost every other day, especially during college. Needless to say my diet was horrible: refined, high-carb, low-fat, almost vegetarian, processed, fast food, etc. The worst you can do.
Now I only get headaches during die-off when I have other die-off symptoms such as rashes, sinus pressure, sore-throat, fatigue. I attribute it to better diet and vitamins/minerals. I wish the die-off cycles went away, I've been fighting this stupid yeast for 8 months.


----------



## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Logansmom*
We started the SCD yesterday and my DS wouldn't eat any of the foods but the jello. This is what I was afraid of since he is such a picky eater. So this morning I made some chicken in the oven with honey drizzled on it and he ate it like it was the best thing ever. I am hoping the honey is ok since you can have the cheesecake which has honey in it.

When do die-off symptoms usually start? I don't really have any symptoms yet other than I haven't had a BM and I have what feels like indigestion. DS hasn't had a decent BM yet either just a really small one yesterday. He usually has at least 3 massive ones a day.

Do you usually give the supplements right from the start or wait until you are through intro?

I put shea butter w/ EPO in it on DS for his eczema, is it OK to keep putting this on him or should I not since shea is a nut?

Sorry for all the questions I just want to make sure I'm doing this right!

Anybody?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
Hullo. Sometimes I feel out of place on this board cause I'm not following SCD. I'm seeing an ND and just trying to do everything she tells me to. I haven't asked her about SCD, but I doubt that I could do it given that I'm a vegetarian, have been allergic to eggs, and have old ED issues that make home cooking way more of a struggle. Not to mention the low energy from poor digestion, I dunno how you guys do it!

In an ideal world I'd like to undertake SCD, but given the way things actually are, I'd rather approach it in other ways. Is there anybody else around here working on healing their gut without SCD, or just somewhat guided by it?

My ND has come to the conclusion that what I have is mainly a parasite. Because I got a major YI despite being on significant probiotics, and am still having problems but my food allergies have diminished. So I'm starting a anti-parasite black walnut herbal combination along with my detox support meds. This is all over my head! Especially since the time I can ask questions is limited. I could email her a lot of questions but I would rather just follow her perscriptions.

My energy level is back to normal, with occasional dips. I had a month where it was really low most of the time, so that's finally over. My skin is a million times better, and my joints are quite reasonable, though I still have a ways to go. My digestion seems much better, as long as I avoid spicy foods and the (possibly rancid) oily-creamy things that have always bothered me.

Um, that would be my tummy-level-digestion which is better... on the poop level, it ain't so good. What exactly is causing the problem? My DP eats the same food as me, and he poops fine! (I'm still not quite used to discussing these things!) I'm not really sure what it is but it's as though it's too soft but with a hard core, or just random hard parts. And very small amounts. Hrm, TMI, whee. I'm taking a couple things to get it better for the time being, but when can I expect it to improve on its own?

I also have to keep working on drinking enough water. I do drink a lot more than I used to, though.

Has anyone gotten into juicing for this stuff? Now that my weight's back up, I'm considering it, but IME juicers are really hard to clean. Although the juicers I used were all old. Have things improved?

ETA: After saying that I checked a document on an anti-candida diet my ND sent me and it's remotely similar to SCD, mainly about getting lower carbohydrates. Oh boy!

It sounds to me like you may have yeast issues, if you had yeast infection problems. Is your ND recommending any yeast treatments for you?

I am doing an anti-yeast diet--I was doing the SCD but it didn't help me so I switched. If you are vegetarian you would not be able to do an anti-candida diet, though, because they rely pretty heavily on meat.

Your digestion (poop included) is a reflection of your overall health, so as you heal your poop issues should improve.

Do you do any cooking from scratch at all? Coconut oil should help you if you can include some in your diet--it's also an anti-fungal to help kill yeast. Also, high vitamin cod liver oil would be beneficial if you can get yourself to take it. Have you tried any naturally fermented foods (they contain natural probiotics) like homemade yogurt or kefir, homemade sauerkraut or salsa, things like that? They are quite easy to make and will probably do you more good than straight probiotics.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Yea We're back!

Lots to post but I can't right now.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

I hope you don't mind me asking a quick question here ... we are working on yeast/candida/thrush here with my 1 month old and me. I was wondering if he was too young to start slipping some enzymes into him. We are giving him probiotics 3x a day, and I am taking them too. Plus I have some Candizyme to start taking, and was wondering if there was a reason why I couldn't put some in his mouth at night too ...


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh, my goodess, it has been a long 5 days or so w/o MDC!

Wondering if you can help me troubleshoot my issues that seem to be worse.







Constipation is still quite an issue. I have been taking magnesium and now also have sodium ascorbate. While I think the vit c is producing some loose stools (which is how I am gauging how much I need), I still feel constipated, if that makes sense. Also, from when I started the diet, the scale now says that I am almost 10 lbs heavier.







I feel heavier -- bloated, distended, etc. I have also been having some serious fatigue, like bone tired, sleeping in the afternoon tired, which I normally never do.

The only things different are the sodium ascorbate and running in the morning for about 20 min, which I started up again 1.5 weeks ago. I used to run regularly, but feel off the wagon not that long ago, so I am not really inclined to think that the fatigue is from that. Course, it has been a billion degrees out, but again, I don't really think that is it. Plus, it doesn't explain the set back of other symtoms.

Is this more die off? It does rather feel like detox, but w/o any relief. I never really did feel die off when starting SCD, so not sure what to make of that.

Whether or not it is connected, DD2 (nursing) has had some red rash like spots on her face and most recently on her vagina. Originally I thought it was from the heat. This morning I saw something long and white in her vagina. She had worms last summer, wondering if it is that again. I wouldn't think that it is yeast because we have never had an issue with that. And she was itching her vagina too. Sigh. I feel so clueless about all of this.

Oh, and depression/stress/anxiety seems to be worse. Not sure what is the chicken or the egg here.







:

ETA: Just remembered another thing different -- have been eating raw milk yogurt since Sunday.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I got dd's stool results on Sat, ran to my puter and discovered that mcd was down







Her results were extremely confusing. No yeast and no lactobaccili and only half the level of bifidous they think is right. Nothing else. After doing some more reserch I have come to the conclusion that the results mean nothing. I fed dd some fruit after reading that result (after nearly a week of no fruit) some cherries at one point and some rasberries at another. Her behavior was awful! Hitting us, fighting sleep even after skipping her nap (usually no nap guarentees a quick and easy bedtime, just lots of night waking) pushing the little girl from up the street. Behaviors I only saw in her when we weren't restricting her fruit. I cut fruit out again after that nightmare. I then posed on pecanbread and found out that the stool test can have false negatives for yeast and that something called the OAT test from great plains is much better.

So she and I are back to no fruit and no honey. (man I hate the taste of stevia







) Not sure how long we will keep this up. I'm thinking 3 months if we can manage it. I'm also going on nystatin assuming my liver function test comes back fine. I should hear about that today. Of course I'm not supposed to do that if pg and we are ttc so I'm not sure what I'll do if I get a bfp in the next couple of months. We aren't working real hard at ttc right now but we aren't ready to quit trying either.

And the third big thing. She was adjusted by a new chiro last thurs. She fought it like crazy, in general a bad experience (not the chiro's fault she was terrific, dd was just not wanting to be messed with). After that adjustment she was just off all the time. She did not nap Friday or Sat. DH forced a very late nap on sun and she didn't nap mon or tues. Tues I got her adjusted again. We did some work on processing everything so she went into the appointment seeming much more positive, plus she is getting to know this chiro so that really helps. She just lay on my stomach for the adjustment and quietly let her work on her back for as long as she wanted. We thought she might have fallen asleep she was so still and calm. Last night, she fell asleep in no time. She slept pretty deeply last night and I know nursed less than normal. At 5 ish she woke up (in her own bed) and wanted to come to our bed. I reached to grab her and realized she had peed (slept a bit too deeply







) so I got her up and changed her. By then it was nearly time for dh to get up for the day and we never really got back to sleep so she got up 2-3 hours earlier than normal but in all I think it was a major leap forward. I am just so releived! Oh did I mention that she is now napping??? Went to sleep for this nap in 5 min too. I didn't finish the first song before I realized she was asleep.

So, I'm not thrilled about no fruit. It really makes portable meals much, much harder to figure out. (ideas are welcome, right now we do mostly carrot sticks and cheese) I need to make some bread again I think. It is just so hot here that I don't want to bake.

Has anyone made those sunflower seed crackers from that woman's NT recipe site? I'm thinking about making those. I've got some crispy sunflower seeds in my fridge... But I don't want to bother if they aren't that good.

I almost forgot! While I was researching trying to figure out my dd's test results I came across a study on pub med that said that excess cortisol has a detrimental effect on the good bacteria in the gut. Not sleeping causes excessive cortisol! I'm thinking it is a bit of a chicken and egg thing right now. I'm also considering using fos for dd. I know Elaine didn't like it cause she didn't beleive that it didn't feed bad bacteria as well as good but I'm thinking it may be worth a shot. Anyone know something I don't about this?


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Nolansmum, thanks







I ask my ND the really important questions. I definitely appreciate the approach that she's working for me. But even aside from time and politeness issues, I'm trying to limit the amount of information I need to assimilate! There's already so much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
It sounds to me like you may have yeast issues, if you had yeast infection problems. Is your ND recommending any yeast treatments for you?

Boy do I ever have yeast issues. I did a test last december that said I didn't have systemic yeast, but this ND thinks that I must if I am **** having YIs. I'm on probiotics--a weekly packet of HMF Replete--and an anti-candida diet...

Quote:

If you are vegetarian you would not be able to do an anti-candida diet, though, because they rely pretty heavily on meat.
She actually has info on vegetarian anti-candida diets, and sent me a weekly menu. It's mainly low-carb veg foods, as well as the usual forbiddens. I started it a couple days ago. I love the meals, mostly, but my god, I haven't had cravings in years and these are intense. I'm planning to start cooking meats a couple times a week as well, until my health balances out. I was never a purist veg, it's just my favorite basic diet, and I really can't handle non-organic meats.

Quote:

Do you do any cooking from scratch at all? Coconut oil should help you if you can include some in your diet--it's also an anti-fungal to help kill yeast. Also, high vitamin cod liver oil would be beneficial if you can get yourself to take it. Have you tried any naturally fermented foods (they contain natural probiotics) like homemade yogurt or kefir, homemade sauerkraut or salsa, things like that?
I do some cooking from scratch. While I basically enjoy it and have some ability, it can quickly become a stresser. In particular I have a hard time getting the schedule right; so often I don't think about food until I'm starving and then it's too late. I'm working on that one step at a time. Nowadays, I don't think it's possible to eat healthily without cooking from scratch 90% of the time. But it doesn't come easy to me.

Thanks for the information on coconut oil! I'm taking cod liver oil. I would LOVE to make kefir. The stuff from the store is yummy but goes bad extremely fast, usually in the store, so we have stopped buying it. I just haven't found someone who could send me a kefir starter. Fermented veggies aren't my thing though.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
I just haven't found someone who could send me a kefir starter. Fermented veggies aren't my thing though.

You can PM xenabyte and she'll put you on her list, or galeforce might have some. Have you tried posting for some in the nutrition forum? Or you can also get some on eBay.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders*
I hope you don't mind me asking a quick question here ... we are working on yeast/candida/thrush here with my 1 month old and me. I was wondering if he was too young to start slipping some enzymes into him. We are giving him probiotics 3x a day, and I am taking them too. Plus I have some Candizyme to start taking, and was wondering if there was a reason why I couldn't put some in his mouth at night too ...

I personally would not give enzymes to a baby that young. They can be hard on your system, especially ones with proteases. The probiotics should help him, and as you fix your issues his will be fixed, also. Do the probiotics you are giving him contain bifidus/bifidum only? 99% of an EBF baby's gut bacteria is bifidum so they should only have probiotics containing that until they start solids. (If you are giving him bifidum-only probiotics, would you post the brand? I can't find any to give my DD.)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I almost forgot! While I was researching trying to figure out my dd's test results I came across a study on pub med that said that excess cortisol has a detrimental effect on the good bacteria in the gut. Not sleeping causes excessive cortisol! I'm thinking it is a bit of a chicken and egg thing right now. I'm also considering using fos for dd. I know Elaine didn't like it cause she didn't beleive that it didn't feed bad bacteria as well as good but I'm thinking it may be worth a shot. Anyone know something I don't about this?

I've read more negatives than positives about FOS...didn't save any links, unfortunately. If I remember I'll see if I can find any later today.

If you can do raw veggies, salmon salad on lettuce or celery sticks might work okay for a meal on the go (if your DD will eat it, of course).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--I came across a couple of things the other day that you might be interested in. One is the optimal diet--a Polish doctor is supposed to have cured a ton of people from various chronic & terminal diseases with it, basically you eat a ratio of 1 gram/protein to 2.5-3.5 grams/fat to .8/gram/carbs (basically only veggies for the carbs). The other is hydrogen peroxide. This website says it is effective for bacteria problems. http://www.familyhealthnews.com/27.html


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
(If you are giving him bifidum-only probiotics, would you post the brand? I can't find any to give my DD.)

Natren Life Start, I believe is one.


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I personally would not give enzymes to a baby that young. They can be hard on your system, especially ones with proteases. The probiotics should help him, and as you fix your issues his will be fixed, also. Do the probiotics you are giving him contain bifidus/bifidum only? 99% of an EBF baby's gut bacteria is bifidum so they should only have probiotics containing that until they start solids. (If you are giving him bifidum-only probiotics, would you post the brand? I can't find any to give my DD.)

Thank you! I didn't know that about probiotics for infants ... I had been giving him the same I was taking. I'm going to order the one that chasmyn posted.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I think that the yogurt is contributing to my malabsorption (I'm on SCD). I'm giving it up for a couple of weeks to see if it makes a difference.

I am now down to only a few foods I can eat: meat, nut butter (but not almond), cooked fruits and veggies, butter, good fats, eggs.

I've been eating cooked cherries lately and I think they are giving me the big D. Heartbreaking!







:

I would give anything to be able to eat a sub sandwich from Giorgio's.

This is all so frustrating! I also upped the eggs recently because of giving up the yogurt and that could be the issue as well.

Oh, I almost forgot the reason for posting: I need recommendations for a good supplemental probiotic in case it is the yogurt. TIA!







:







:







:







:







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Natren Life Start, I believe is one.

Oh yeah I forgot about that one...but it contains powdered milk & whey and DD has problems with dairy.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*

Oh, I almost forgot the reason for posting: I need recommendations for a good supplemental probiotic in case it is the yogurt. TIA!







:







:







:







:







:

You could try making cabbage rejuvelac (it's a drink)--it's supposed to be a great probiotic, and very cheap (and easy to make). I can post the recipe if you're interested.

I did take some really really strong probiotics a while ago but unfortunately I've forgot the name...if I remember I'll post it.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I think you posted it not too long ago, I'd forgotten about that - is it tasty?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Natren Life Start, I believe is one.

My DS is 7.5 months old and mostly BF do I need to give him probiotics? Is there an SCD legal baby probiotic? I am eating yogurt. DS's eczema came back with a vengeance, could be me eating the yogurt or the fact that my DH fed him some yogurt for a few days







: . Will have to wait several days for it to subside. Meanwhile I guess I should stop the yogurt and find a legal probiotic. I feel like the yogurt has really been helping my yeast problem.

So glad to have MDC back!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
You could try making cabbage rejuvelac (it's a drink)--it's supposed to be a great probiotic, and very cheap (and easy to make). I can post the recipe if you're interested.

I did take some really really strong probiotics a while ago but unfortunately I've forgot the name...if I remember I'll post it.

I would be interested in the recipe! I hope I am ready for cabbage.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Logansmoms: constipation can be a sign of die-off. Usually die-off starts right away, or at least by the second week.

I started some supplements right away.

I would think that topical shea butter would not be the same as ingesting nuts -- the main problem with the nuts is the fiber, along with the carbs. These things probably wouldn't get absorbed, would they?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
I would be interested in the recipe! I hope I am ready for cabbage.

The cabbage just ferments and then you strain it out, so I think it would be okay.

Coarsely chop 3 c. cabbage (preferably organic). Put in blender with 1 3/4 c. of non-chlorinated (not tap) water. Blend until cabbage is finely chopped but not pureed. Pour into covered jar and let sit for 3 days (may take less if your house is very hot). After 3 days, strain off cabbage. Reserve 1/4 c. of liquid for next batch. Drink 1/2 c. of remaining liquid 3x a day. Refrigerate any liquid left in the evening and throw out after 24 hours.

Subsequent batches: same as above but only use 1 1/2 c. water and add 1/4 c. liquid from previous batch. Subsequent batches only take 24 hrs to ferment.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

checked the cheat sheet.......but where's a clear easy recipe for making yogurt with raw milk (i'm going to use goat.........). dang lack of search function......

thanks!
megin


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl*
checked the cheat sheet.......but where's a clear easy recipe for making yogurt with raw milk (i'm going to use goat.........). dang lack of search function......

thanks!
megin

Is there a recipe for yogurt making? Raw milk is the same, just don't heat it past 110 degrees.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

For me, a migraine trigger is usually the same day, but sometimes there is a delay, especially if I continue to consume the food over several days. I can eat walnuts (organic only) every few days, but several days in a row, and I get a migraine. My migraines are milder, and they are fewer, but they are not gone away.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Logansmoms: constipation can be a sign of die-off. Usually die-off starts right away, or at least by the second week.

I started some supplements right away.

I would think that topical shea butter would not be the same as ingesting nuts -- the main problem with the nuts is the fiber, along with the carbs. These things probably wouldn't get absorbed, would they?

I think when true allergies are present, it's the proteins that cause the reaction. In this case reaction would come from the skin, too. That's why they doa skin prick test, sometimes...I think.
However, I woudln't think shea butter would be the same as peanut oil, for example. Ithink it's actually a tuber, not a nut?
Mty kids and I didn't have problems with shea but nobody has true nut allergies eaither. Shea butter was OK but CO seems to help more for our eczema/yeast issues combined with diet.

OK, so I'm gaining weight, too!
Can it be the enzymes? I try to be as low-carb as I can, no fruit and lots of fat. I only have honey with oatmeal every once in a while.
I've been taking Digest Gold for a while and I was thinking maybe the enzymes are causing weight gain by making too much glucose? Anyone has heard of this?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Re: weight gain. I don't feel that mine is "true" weight gain. By that I mean that I am hugely bloated and constipated, although constipation is getting _slightly_ better, and it came on all of the sudden. Also with this heat...

As of this morning, I am actually down a few pounds. Still about 5 more than where I was, but at least I am going in the right direction!

So to ask my previous question, is it possible to have die-off (that I didn't have when started SCD) a month in and from switching to raw milk yogurt? It seems to me that it is, but just curious on your opinions, especially if it could mean that SCD isn't quite working for me???


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Another question: I have a tender spot in my lower rt stomach area, like where my large intestine starts. I don't feel it really other than when I press there. I have had this pretty much all along. Now, however, it seems to have moved up my intestinal tract and I have a tender, somewhat painful spot a bit higher, below my liver. I can actually feel it without touching it and it gives me a dull ache. Thoughts? Should I be hugely concerned?

When I did go see my regular doc, he was convinced I have IBS, which I don't agree with. He did give me a referral to a GI specialist, but that person ended up not taking my insurance. It was all such a hassle that I didn't persue anything further. My therapist, who has heard of my saga all along, really thinks that I need to get to a specialist and get scoped. I would sort of like to know what is in there, but I am also wary that convential docs can help me (since they thought I have IBS, even my midwife).


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I think its' a good idea to see a specialist, even if you don't want to go with the conventional treatrment, you can at least get a diagnosis.
Your insurance company should have a list of providers on their website. That's how I find doctors. But I haven't had success with allopathis docs lately...

I think i's possible to get a die-off that late, especially that you introduced raw milk yogurt. Whenever I do something new (like add yogurt, or probiotics or kefir or enzymes etc.) I always get a new die-off cycle. I guess as long as I have candida I'll get die-off every time I do something new to kill it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

EBG--did you say that at one point you were eating several cloves of raw garlic a day? If so, did you find that it affected your nursing babe at all? My DD's sleep issues are getting worse and worse and my DH suggested that maybe all the raw garlic I'm eating is upsetting her stomach. She's never reacted (as far as I can tell) to anything I've eaten with behavioral changes, colic, or that sort of thing.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
However, I woudln't think shea butter would be the same as peanut oil, for example. Ithink it's actually a tuber, not a nut?

A peanut is a legume, not a nut. I think that's what you meant to say.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

oops! asked an unclear question above.....actually I need ANY yogurt making recipes, strategies, supplies, etc. I've never done it. I'm hoping to use raw milk but wanted to get a sense of the process first.

Thanks again!
megin


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

We use our oven light and half gallon jars. We heat the yogurt to about 110 degrees (for raw), then add the Yogourmet starter (2 packets for a half gallon jar). Pour into the jars, put the lid on. Wrap the jars with a towel and put in the oven with the light on (do NOt turn on the oven, just the light) for 24 hours (we make the 24 hour yogurt. You can also only do it for 8 if you want to). Then put in the fridge for another 8 hours and done. Very very easy.


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## krankedyann (May 28, 2005)

I posted this over in the traditional foods forum, then thought it might be better suited here, so I decided to X-post. Can anyone offer any help?

I'm getting ready to start SCD combined with NT, a low-glutamate diet, and possibly will need to look at a candida diet as well. I'm currently gluten-free, and we're awaiting test results to see if I'm celiac or gluten intolerant, and also checking for allergies to soy, egg, caesin and yeast.

I've been reading BTVC, and I'm seeing mentions of the 24 hour yogurt. Does anyone substitute this with kefir? Anyone know anything about doing it that way? Since I know kefir is loaded with many more probiotics than yogurt, I'm sure it's a better choice, however how do you know all of the lactose has been consumed?

I realize neither will be a choice if I do have to go caesin-free, but it's another 3 weeks or so before we ge the test results from Enterolab.


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## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

:


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## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

:


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mynn*
*So, since search is down, googling this place isn't helping, but you guys have great memories - anyone seen this friggin problem with citrus and apples or pears? I was figuring it was just "too much juice" but cutting way back on the fruit is helping tremendously. As is keeping him on one brand of one specific type of milk.*

I am still trying to figure out our problem foods but I'll tell you what I have discovered so far. I have been on SCD for a month now for my yeast problem and my son has eczema(he is BF and we have been trying to introduce solids). His Eczema flairs when I eat apples, pears, peaches and that was as far as I got I am now avoiding all fruit. When he ate them he basically spit them all up over a 2 hr period after eating. I can eat bananas. I am not going to try any citrus. It sounds like your son with his irregular bowels may do well on SCD. At least you could use the diet to find out his intolerances? SCD suggests watering down all juices (half juice/half water), maybe this would help keep total juice consumption down.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann*
Since I know kefir is loaded with many more probiotics than yogurt, I'm sure it's a better choice, however how do you know all of the lactose has been consumed?

Not necessarily. Kefir contains more types of bacteria/yeast than the usual 3 strains in yogurt. Kefir has more bacterial count in number than store bought yogurt. But 24 hr. yogurt made at home is just as strong in bacterial count:

*The Great Yogurt-Kefir Conspiracy:*
http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

It might be your individual gut flora that responds better to one or the other. The beneficial yeasts in kefir really make some people react negatively. Perhaps it's strong die off too.

It's also harder to eliminate all lactose in kefir as I understand it. You have to culture with grains 24 hours, then strain out grains and ripen another 24-48 at room temp. This was from Dom's site or Yahoo group I think.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders*
I hope you don't mind me asking a quick question here ... we are working on yeast/candida/thrush here with my 1 month old and me. I was wondering if he was too young to start slipping some enzymes into him. We are giving him probiotics 3x a day, and I am taking them too. Plus I have some Candizyme to start taking, and was wondering if there was a reason why I couldn't put some in his mouth at night too ...

I would not do enzymes for any infant under 6 months at least.

I think Natren makes a dairy free Life Start. And Country Life MAXI BABY-DOPHILUS is dairy free too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So I got dd's stool results on Sat, ran to my puter and discovered that mcd was down







Her results were extremely confusing. No yeast and no lactobaccili and only half the level of bifidous they think is right. Nothing else. After doing some more reserch I have come to the conclusion that the results mean nothing. I fed dd some fruit after reading that result (after nearly a week of no fruit) some cherries at one point and some rasberries at another. Her behavior was awful! Hitting us, fighting sleep even after skipping her nap (usually no nap guarentees a quick and easy bedtime, just lots of night waking) pushing the little girl from up the street. Behaviors I only saw in her when we weren't restricting her fruit. I cut fruit out again after that nightmare. I then posed on pecanbread and found out that the stool test can have false negatives for yeast and that something called the OAT test from great plains is much better.

So she and I are back to no fruit and no honey. (man I hate the taste of stevia







) Not sure how long we will keep this up.
...

I almost forgot! While I was researching trying to figure out my dd's test results I came across a study on pub med that said that excess cortisol has a detrimental effect on the good bacteria in the gut. Not sleeping causes excessive cortisol!

Yep. That is the "vicious cycle" we are in now too re: sleeping and cortisol. I would love that study if you can pinpoint it b/c I'm *constantly* saying this to DH when he is fed up with DS and his sleep problems ... that making DS cry or get agitated only makes him worse.

DS can really only do bananas and cooked pear and it's becoming a nightmare food wise. It's been too long on this very restricted diet.

I also think that he has yeast problems despite 2 stool tests saying it's only bacteria. He just goes completely nuts on juice or raw fruit, just like you describe.

He also just had some virus or reaction or huge die off or something, the poor kid pooped 9x the other day and had a fever. So I don't know what is going on. We've been rotating probiotics lately.

We are seeing a DAN dr. on Monday and I will ask for the OAT but I don't know if it can be done while he is still in nighttime diapers (do you know if it's first AM urine?) Or perhaps we will just treat for yeast and see what happens.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I would not do enzymes for any infant under 6 months at least.

I think Natren makes a dairy free Life Start. And Country Life MAXI BABY-DOPHILUS is dairy free too.

If Natren makes a dairy-free one I haven't been able to find it. I guess for my DD I'll just have to wait until she starts solids to start her on a probiotic.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't go ahead and start her on solids in a few weeks? I was planning on starting after Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months old. She sits up alone, has teeth, and is very interested in food, she just doesn't have the pincher grasp yet, but I'm sure she will by then.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--I came across a couple of things the other day that you might be interested in. One is the optimal diet--a Polish doctor is supposed to have cured a ton of people from various chronic & terminal diseases with it, basically you eat a ratio of 1 gram/protein to 2.5-3.5 grams/fat to .8/gram/carbs (basically only veggies for the carbs). The other is hydrogen peroxide. This website says it is effective for bacteria problems. http://www.familyhealthnews.com/27.html

What kinds of fats where they eating?

I'm hugely in favor of fats and try to get as much into DS as possible, but I'm finding it hard to plan a daily diet around them with other restrictions.

The H2O2 thing is interesting... I know vitamin C, and certain probiotics, like Reuteri, are known for producing it. DS has been calmer on higher doses of C, we are up to almost 2 grams/day. But then that virus or whatever last week threw us all off.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Question about enzymes...
I just got my bottle of Candex (enzymes). How shall I start taking them? The bottle says morning 1 hr before food and then again at night 2 hrs after food. But I know with other enzymes you can take them with a meal. I am Breastfeeding a 7 month old and we have already been through 2 bad die-off cycles (starting SCD and then again starting yogurt)

JaneS-I am going to try your cashew butter cake today...I am really looking forward to it!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If Natren makes a dairy-free one I haven't been able to find it. I guess for my DD I'll just have to wait until she starts solids to start her on a probiotic.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't go ahead and start her on solids in a few weeks? I was planning on starting after Labor Day, when she'll be 8 1/2 months old. She sits up alone, has teeth, and is very interested in food, she just doesn't have the pincher grasp yet, but I'm sure she will by then.

Yep, you are right, they recommend their Bifido Factor dairy free instead:
http://store.natren.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=002

I don't see why not solids. It's just practice anyways for first few months. I would just go carefully and do a combo of SCD and WAPF principles (no grains).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
Question about enzymes...
I just got my bottle of Candex (enzymes). How shall I start taking them? The bottle says morning 1 hr before food and then again at night 2 hrs after food. But I know with other enzymes you can take them with a meal. I am Breastfeeding a 7 month old and we have already been through 2 bad die-off cycles (starting SCD and then again starting yogurt)

JaneS-I am going to try your cashew butter cake today...I am really looking forward to it!

Yes, follow directions to take on empty stomach. (With a lot of water.) This is a crucial part of using cellulase and protease enzymes to kill yeast/bacteria in gut. Otherwise if you take them with food, they are working on the food.

I personally did not see bad die off with Candex when I had thrush while bf'ing but that's just me. Maybe you want to start with one capsule only.

Enjoy the cake!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Mynn,

The gas means you are not digesting your food fully and it's fermenting in the intestines. I would start on digestive enzymes pronto.

You might want to check on pregnancy safety but since your body produces them anyways, I would personally take them. You can also check around at www.enzymestuff.com or their Yahoo group for any info on pg issues or call Dr. Devin Houston at Houston Nutraceuticals for advice.

Fermenting foods also means intestinal flora imbalance. Because the bad gut bugs like yeast/bacteria eat the unabsorbed food (usually grains and sugars) and grow out of control. They also produce toxins that are just like alcohol that go into your bloodstream and this is the cause of the foggy head, fatigue and dizzy symptoms (adding: and rage and sleep issues) that are known to accompany yeast/candida.

I would also boost your probiotics and your DS's probiotics to 3x day. Sounds like neither of you got a good start on healthy gut flora!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What kinds of fats where they eating?

I'm hugely in favor of fats and try to get as much into DS as possible, but I'm finding it hard to plan a daily diet around them with other restrictions.

The H2O2 thing is interesting... I know vitamin C, and certain probiotics, like Reuteri, are known for producing it. DS has been calmer on higher doses of C, we are up to almost 2 grams/day. But then that virus or whatever last week threw us all off.

They want 90% to be animal/saturated fats. They don't specifically mention CO but since it's saturated I don't know why that wouldn't be acceptable (or just tweak the diet to fit your needs







).

Does your DS like herbal teas? I've been able to put about 1 Tbsp of CO in a cup of herbal tea...I also put quite a bit in bone broths but I seem to recall you mentioning it was hard to get those into him.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Saturated fats are right up my alley!

Yes, DS does like herbal teas with or without stevia. I make those in summer cold but never thought of using them warm for CO, hmmmm.

He is very spotty on bone broth consumption. I found that he does really like chicken broth made with rosemary lately. And of course I burned an entire batch of it, dontcha know. Sigh. So I started all over again and that is what he's been using to recover past few days. Usually I do his banana or nut butter pancakes in CO. But goat butter also is supposed to have high amounts of caprylic acid and he eats a lot of that too.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

DS has been taking ascorbic acid (chewable), which is really really helping him deal with die-off as he's on antibiotics for yeast and too many anaerobic bacteria in the gut....but, folks here say that he should really be on sodium ascorbate.

i'd love suggestions on sodium ascorbate for kids, if there are chewable varieties (getting him to drink dissolved stuff will be HARD), and how much he should take. he's been taking at least 1500mg of the chewables right now and they are serving him well.

thanks!
megin


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
EBG--did you say that at one point you were eating several cloves of raw garlic a day? If so, did you find that it affected your nursing babe at all? My DD's sleep issues are getting worse and worse and my DH suggested that maybe all the raw garlic I'm eating is upsetting her stomach. She's never reacted (as far as I can tell) to anything I've eaten with behavioral changes, colic, or that sort of thing.

Yes and I still do if I don't forget it. Anywhere between 2-6 cloves. I usually add it to my food but sometimes just chew it up and chase it down with water, now that I try to take enzymes between meals.
It never affected my nursling.
The Candidase enzymes and kefir did-her skin and poop - but not the sleeping patterns. The smell didn't seem to bother her either...

Do you see any benefits from garlic? It did give me a huge die-off initially but it's not doing anything any more. Nothing is is helping at this point.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
A peanut is a legume, not a nut. I think that's what you meant to say.









I meant that shea nut is a tuber not a nut. I'm not sure, though.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Oh! Shea!

It doesn't look like it (I Googled to check). It looks like it is a fruit, called a nut, and the butter is extracted from the seed. (Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shea

I couldn't find any mention of it being a tuber anywhere.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Just two comments that may already be common knowledge: there are many fruits that are high in salicylates that have a behavioral response of aggitation, hyperactivity, interrupted sleep: The Feingold program also identifies additives in non-food sources such as aspirin, toothpaste, medicines, and gums. Some of the salicylate foods are:

• Almonds • Apples • Apricots • Aspirin • Berries (all) • Cherries • Cloves • Coffee • Cucumbers • Currants • Grapes/raisins • Nectarines • Oil of wintergreen (methyl salicylates) • Oranges • Peaches • Peppers (bell, chili) • Pickles • Plums • Prunes • Raisins • Rose hips • Tangerines • Tangelos • Tea • Tomatoes • Vinegar (cider, wine) • Wine

Of course, articifical colors and flavors have a similar stimulant affect for our son too.

Also, we use CO 1:1 in most all baking recipes for any oil.

Pat


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I would like to make some bread on occasion, but almond flour will break the bank for us







Can I use a cheaper nut and make my own flour by putting in the food processor? Would walnuts work for the bread as well? I can get walnuts a bit cheaper here than almonds. Any thoughts?


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm checking out yogurt makers. Can you make 24 hr yogurt, using one of them?


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## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

Thanks so much for the thoughtful response.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
I'm checking out yogurt makers. Can you make 24 hr yogurt, using one of them?

I bought the Salton 1 qt maker as other people had said it worked well and was easy. It kept the yogurt at 122 degrees which is too hot. So I then used a heating pad to make the yogurt and it was VERY easy. Just test on top of the heating pad with whatever containers you will be using to make the yogurt and fill them with water. Keep checking the temp over several hrs adjust the temp to stay between 100-110. You don't have to spend any money (unless you don't have a heating pad at home.)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am using the 1 qt Salton with a glass mason jar w/o a lid on, and it is keeping the temp quite well.


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## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
I'm checking out yogurt makers. Can you make 24 hr yogurt, using one of them?

i'm also using a Salton, very inexpensive and works well. Just leave it on for 24 hours instead of what's in the manual. Only makes a quart, though. I bought it at bedbathandbeyond.com for under 15 dollars plus shipping.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Any money saving tips? We are so broke lately, it's tempting me to quit SCD (that and the lack of progress, and all the time spent cooking). Help!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Maybe it would help money saving: I have started concentrating a bit more on vegetables (and fruit, which of course is not cheap). Veggies are certainly cheaper than pastured eggs and meat, raw milk cheese and raw milk. I have also been skimping a bit on organic because our money is tight too.

My progress has also been spotty at best. I think that the raw milk yogurt helped, but I have gone through the gallon I had and won't be able to get more until next weekend. (It kills me that I could get it at the source for $1.50 a gallon, and to get it here, from the same locale, is $9/ gallon.







, what are you gonna do.)

I think that I may have gotten a bit too cavelier about eating raw fruits and veggies. It is just such _PAIN_ to cook it all the time, as I am sure you know. I am considering finding a doc who does alternative treatments and letting the acupuncture go, since that hasn't been helping so much. If I have to pay out of pocket, I can't afford both. My acupuncturist suggested a food log with symptoms, which is probably a good idea, I just hate the tediousness. He thinks that I have inflammation (of my colon) due to food intolerances. Sounds reasonable, I guess.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We have been w/o power for 4 days (I'm in St. Louis if you heard about the storms.)

I've had no time to read but I had to share that last night dd slept from 10 pm ish till 5 am ish w/o waking ti nurse!!!!!

I attribute this to two things. Chiro and no fruit or honey in either of our diets. I also think I am having some die off myself. We'll see... Ok off to read.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Sleep issues....
I am conducting an experiment... We have been using night lights ever since the kids were born, so I can see what I'm doing in the middle of the night like changing diapers and bfeeding etc. Also my older DD likes to have a light on. Anyway, I came across a few articles about lights disrupting sleep so I decided to quit using night lights. And voila. My 1 yr-old is sleeping through the night! It's been only two days, though. I haven't changed her diet so I think the dark really helps.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Also, mamas with yeast and eczema issues...
Is anybody getting better? I'm very very itchy......arghh
Last week after starting culturelle again after 6 months, it started getting better, I had like two spots altogether, now I'm covered again and it's as bad as it was before the diet and supplements. If it's die-off again,why is it coming back? Why I can't I get rid of this stupid yeast since last December?
I have tried:
candida diet, SCD, NT, combination,
probiotics - culturelle and SCD yogurt and kefir
enzymes -Digest, Digest Gold
taking CLO, butter, CO, garlic, multivitamin, extra zinc, vitamin C, folic acid, B12, cal-mag dolomite, glutamine,
No sugar, grains (except NT oatmeal occasionnaly), no fruit, honey, no raw veggies except occassional tomatoes, no cheese
lots of eggs, meat, veggies, butter, broth

I can't do EPO or borage or flax- they give me hives

please help!!!! I'm going crazy!!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

It sounds like a few of us are having some bad days.








This diet is very expensive, as are chiro's and acupunturists! Then if you are not seeing improvement it is hard to justify the expense.

EBG-have you investigated enviornmental stuff already? Soaps, laundry detergents, cleaners, pets, mold in the house? Are you seeing any sort of doctor for help in trying to figure these things out?

I am having one of those days when I really want to go out to dinner and eat anything, topped off with a BIG dessert. All the cooking and cleaning the dishes is getting to me and Nolan's eczema is bad again right now so I need to step back again and cut out the yogurt (which I love) and the red peppers that I added this week.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

EBG-have you investigated enviornmental stuff already? Soaps, laundry detergents, cleaners, pets, mold in the house? Are you seeing any sort of doctor for help in trying to figure these things out?

Yes, I did that before going the diet route. I threw away my detergents, cleaners, shampoos etc a year ago and have been using castile soap for showering and bath, hand washing, natural dish soap (Trader Joe's right now) and laudry soap. I quit using baby wipes and have been using only paper towels and I always wear gloves for dishwashing.
All this didn't make a difference. The diet did in the beginning, then for months it was mild and now it's back to horrible and I didn't change anything since last week when i thought it was going away.








Yes this diet is expensive, so are the supplements. So my DH said I'm not allowed to go grocery shopping any more and use a credit card. The problem is we don't have any cash. So I guess we're going on a new diet: nothing.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I've been on SCD for 25 days now, and while it was going great for the first two weeks, in the last week or so, I've regressed quite a bit. There's a perfectly good explanation for that:

LIttle over a week ago I developed a very sore tail bone. It got progressively worse over the week till I was barely able to sit or lie without pain. I even started partially night weaning my DS because every time he wanted to nurse, I'd end up in pain from lying in one position too long, and then have trouble going back to sleep.

I was getting so sleep deprived that I wasn't paying much attention to my food choices (still sleep deprived). While everything I ate was SCD legal and certainly for the starting stages, my aim during that time was to just eat something! Who knew rapid introduction of new foods wasn't a good idea?









So currently my back is a lot better (after I played soccer a few days ago) but I feel like a mess otherwise







So drained and sleep deprived, like before SCD. I feel I have to go back to the intro. diet (or something close to it), to repair the damage I've done, but I feel impatient. I know what I have to do, but don't feel motivated despite every reason to be motivated







:

Perhaps I just need to vent again!









Oh and my DP is being an asshat again... must grow used to it I guess. He's my financial backing







(he's not terrible, but when I feel down, I get very sensitive - shouldn't he recognize that and be gentle?! I still think he's an asshat though







)


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Sleep issues....
I am conducting an experiment... We have been using night lights ever since the kids were born, so I can see what I'm doing in the middle of the night like changing diapers and bfeeding etc. Also my older DD likes to have a light on. Anyway, I came across a few articles about lights disrupting sleep so I decided to quit using night lights. And voila. My 1 yr-old is sleeping through the night! It's been only two days, though. I haven't changed her diet so I think the dark really helps.

You know what? I've been wondering about the very same thing - we use a nightlight, too. But then what do you do when you need to nurse, change diapers, whatever? Turn on a small light?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I missed a lot.

I am finally having sucess, I think. DD is sleeping better and I can see it clearly is associated with fruit intake. So far no safe fruits but we'll see. I'm going to try to keep her fruit free for another few weeks at least, then probably try some cooked fruits and see how that goes. It was so clear in her behavior and sleeping this weekend which days she had fruit and which ones she didn't. My chiro and Dr assure me that her going 3 months or more w/o any fruit won't be detrimental, esp since she eats a wide variety of veggies.

I have been feeling lousy for nearly a week now. It started last wednesday. About 10 days after I cut out fruit and I'm not sure how long since I started the newest herbal antifungal. I haven't found anything that seems to help me feel better. (Lightheaded, exhausted, spacy). I've tried cheating on the diet. Pascalite clay. And increasing my other antifungal foods (garlic, coconut oil, yogurt) It actually reminds me of when I was trying to quit zoloft cold turkey a few years ago (at the advice of a Dr.







: ) I just now have put my finger on that. Not sure what that means since I have been zoloft free for years.

Anyhow, I just got my script for nystatin filled. I'm feeling comfortable taking it in a pg if I should get so lucky in the next few months. I think the benefits outweigh the potential risks. (none documented but also not well studied) Esp since it supposedly goes into the blood stream in such miniscule ammounts. Hopefully it will help me get over the hump.

I just can't beleive how much the chiro is helping dd. She is like a different child. Really. It is very, very good. I do think that no fruit is helping just as much. With the power out I decided to compromise and let her have some watermellon one day and man it was obvious! (chiro had recomended I try mellon next)

Ok we are going to be out of town next week.







: I need to precook most and bring all our food for the week. Me, DH and DD. I will have a refridgerator and stove to use but I'm not sure about what will be there for pots and pans etc. So... ideas??? I'm scrambling to get us recovered from the storm and now prepared for next week. I have a mothers helper coming on Wed so I hope to get some cooking done then while she is here. I figure I can freeze stuff. So, nothing with honey or fruit. I'm really struggling to figure this out. Thanks!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Sleep issues....
I am conducting an experiment... We have been using night lights ever since the kids were born, so I can see what I'm doing in the middle of the night like changing diapers and bfeeding etc. Also my older DD likes to have a light on. Anyway, I came across a few articles about lights disrupting sleep so I decided to quit using night lights. And voila. My 1 yr-old is sleeping through the night! It's been only two days, though. I haven't changed her diet so I think the dark really helps.

We killed our nightlight when dd was about 12 months old. It did seem to help a little but not very much. But I know there is much more going on with her now.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Also, mamas with yeast and eczema issues...
Is anybody getting better? I'm very very itchy......arghh
Last week after starting culturelle again after 6 months, it started getting better, I had like two spots altogether, now I'm covered again and it's as bad as it was before the diet and supplements. If it's die-off again,why is it coming back? Why I can't I get rid of this stupid yeast since last December?
I have tried:
candida diet, SCD, NT, combination,
probiotics - culturelle and SCD yogurt and kefir
enzymes -Digest, Digest Gold
taking CLO, butter, CO, garlic, multivitamin, extra zinc, vitamin C, folic acid, B12, cal-mag dolomite, glutamine,
No sugar, grains (except NT oatmeal occasionnaly), no fruit, honey, no raw veggies except occassional tomatoes, no cheese
lots of eggs, meat, veggies, butter, broth

I can't do EPO or borage or flax- they give me hives

please help!!!! I'm going crazy!!

What are you currently doing to kill your yeast? I think that this new herbal yeast killer is a key for me. You need something to attack the yeast directly. How much garlic are you doing? Also this new chiro said that you need to change up your yeast killer every few weeks cause the yeast will mutate and become resistant pretty quickly.

I think that for me the kefir was making things worse so I have quit making it. Plus it was just one more thing to keep up with.







:


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Also, mamas with yeast and eczema issues...
Is anybody getting better? I'm very very itchy......arghh
Last week after starting culturelle again after 6 months, it started getting better, I had like two spots altogether, now I'm covered again and it's as bad as it was before the diet and supplements. If it's die-off again,why is it coming back? Why I can't I get rid of this stupid yeast since last December?
I have tried:
candida diet, SCD, NT, combination,
probiotics - culturelle and SCD yogurt and kefir
enzymes -Digest, Digest Gold
taking CLO, butter, CO, garlic, multivitamin, extra zinc, vitamin C, folic acid, B12, cal-mag dolomite, glutamine,
No sugar, grains (except NT oatmeal occasionnaly), no fruit, honey, no raw veggies except occassional tomatoes, no cheese
lots of eggs, meat, veggies, butter, broth

I can't do EPO or borage or flax- they give me hives

please help!!!! I'm going crazy!!

I feel like I am in a similar boat...A friend of mine was telling me that if you really want to kill the yeast, you have to take an antifungal like diflucan or something. OR she mentioned flagyl? IT's an antibiotic







She said the only way for her to re-balance her own gut (she has had weight loss surgery so has chronic malabsorption) is to take flagyl and then massive doses of probiotics afterward to repopulate her gut.

I am neither advocating nor not advocating this, but I did want to put it here as a topic of discussion.

I am thinking that my own problems stem from the yeasties not being at bay enough, even though I'm not having any "yeast" symptoms...other than craving carbs and inability to control myself around fruit. Sigh...Wondering now if I need to go on the anti-candida diet.







:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

So, those who don't allow their kids to have fruit -- how do you do it? DS clamors for fruit every time we are at the store, and I end up giving in to him because otherwise I can't get out of the store without a meltdown. He's clearly addicted to fruit, and in fact that's almost all he eats. It makes him hyper, which even dh recognizes. Problem is, dh says that it's because he's not allowed much else besides veggies (which he won't eat) and meat. So his solution is to introduce grains!







What else can I do? Just leaving him at home is not an option, as he freaks out whenever he's separated from me (major separation anxiety, still, and dh feels that I can't leave him with him (dh) when he wants to come with me). Sometimes I could strangle dh!

As far as yeast killers, what about capryl? Or ginger?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What about skipping the fresh produce part of the store and doing frozen veggies for a while, at least untill you help him break his addiction to fruit. I think that over time his obsession with fruit will lessen.

DD does get the ionic fizz and that is a little sweet. Other than that though she really eats well so I don't have to worry too much. She eats a wide variety of veggies, eggs, meat, dairy etc. I worry about her developing a complex about food cause I keep telling her no but she seems to really be taking it in stride lately. I think feeling better helps. I also try to help her make those connections between how she feels and the food she eats but it is tough at her age and I don't really expect it to click just yet.

I personally wouldn't give in to giving my kid something I knew was bad for them because they had a tantrum over it. I might look strange to another mother telling my dd no apples, they are bad for your, but oh well. I know what she needs for her body right now and I'm hoping that being super strict here in the short term will pay off big time in the long term in her health and happieness in life.

I'm assuming you can't do nuts or eggs or dairy?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Do you see any benefits from garlic? It did give me a huge die-off initially but it's not doing anything any more. Nothing is is helping at this point.









Some stomach rumbling







I guess it's die-off. I think I'm going to try Candidase again in a couple of weeks and see if that increases the die-off.

How weird is that--I wish for die-off to show me that all this stuff is working!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
You know what? I've been wondering about the very same thing - we use a nightlight, too. But then what do you do when you need to nurse, change diapers, whatever? Turn on a small light?

well since it's going great- DD-s don't wake up at night, I don't have to turn on the light for anything. I guess you could put a light (small lamp?) in a way that you find it in the dark, and turn it on for changing, and then turn it off again when you're done and find your bed, it'll work.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What are you currently doing to kill your yeast? I think that this new herbal yeast killer is a key for me. You need something to attack the yeast directly. How much garlic are you doing? Also this new chiro said that you need to change up your yeast killer every few weeks cause the yeast will mutate and become resistant pretty quickly.

I think that for me the kefir was making things worse so I have quit making it. Plus it was just one more thing to keep up with.







:

I quit kefir for the same reasons.
I am only doing garlic, been eating 2-6 cloves a day but I think the candida is resistant now. Although I read somewhere it can't be resistant to allicin, but I guess it can.... so what do you use?
I'm afraid to try GSE for contamination problems, or collodial silver, it's just sounds scary and I've seen pictures of people with gray skin.
maybe OOO? It's supposed to give you a huge die-off which I can't handle right now. First I have to wait until things calm down a bit...
Is olive leaf effective?
I have tried Candidase which did nothing so I'm thinking I'll try Candex and kombucha. I'm also taking Culturelle but not sure how strong it is against yeast.
Also thinking about Fungal defense-it has cellulase and herbs including OOO, together with probiotics.
All this after the next paycheck....


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Pookietooth said:


> So, those who don't allow their kids to have fruit -- how do you do it? DS clamors for fruit every time we are at the store, and I end up giving in to him because otherwise I can't get out of the store without a meltdown. He's clearly addicted to fruit, and in fact that's almost all he eats. It makes him hyper, which even dh recognizes. Problem is, dh says that it's because he's not allowed much else besides veggies (which he won't eat) and meat. So his solution is to introduce grains!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
What are you currently doing to kill your yeast? I think that this new herbal yeast killer is a key for me.

What is the new herbal yeast killer you are using?


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

We started SCD almost 2 weeks ago with our DS. So far the only food we "think" he tolerates is cauliflower, green beans and bananas. I say think because how do you tell a reaction to the food from die off?

He can't digest carrots, walnut flour or boiled raisins(they showed up in his BM's) and he had a very itchy reaction to DCCC.

His reaction to the boiled raisins was interesting. He was up itchy all night, then he peed so much the next day he leaked 3 times and then finally the next day he pooped them out. Was this a die off reaction?

He doesn't like the meat anymore. He will sit and chew and chew the chicken and then won't swallow it. He keeps saying get me something I like.

He has eaten so much squish(cauliflower) at this point that his breath smells sulfer.

He is uncharacteristically moody and difficult(this started a couple of months ago). He has always been the happiest, most active child. Now everything is a struggle. Some days we can't stand to even be around him. Which really hurts because he is 3. This is supposed to be the fun time. We walk around on eggshells around him. Something can be perfectly fine one minute and then the next he is throwing a fit.

Should I be expecting any improvement in the eczema yet? It is awful. His legs from top to bottom are covered. The tops of his feet are raw, cracked, flaky and just so sore and horrible looking. His arms and hands. His belly itches and it has never been on his belly. He is getting spots behind his ears again and they have broken out for more than a year. He is miserable









Is the fact that it is moving around a good sign? Is there light at the end of this tunnel?

He doesn't sleep more than 2 or 3 hours at a time. He has maybe slept all night 5 times in his life but at least we were getting 4 and 5 hour stretches at a time. Being tired all the time makes it so much harder to deal with for all of us.

Am I right in thinking that if his eczema were a food allergy related thing then since he has been on such a restricted diet for two weeks shouldn't it be improving? Or does die off interfere with this?

How long can he continue on this restricted diet and be healthy?

He is taking kirkman everyday vit. twice per day and carlson's clo 1/4 teaspoon twice per day.

How do you keep a child who cant tolerate eggs, nuts and fruit full on SCD?

What kind of testing is suggested for metal toxicity(he was vaxinated) vit/min deficiency, bacteria, etc?

So much I would do over if I could.....He was fed soy formula(I tried to BF but my milk never came in) and he was vaxinated. one month after his round of 4 month shots he got eczema. I have had it since a teen but only a very mild case. He is highly allergic to eggs and modertely allergic to a host of other things....just a little of his background.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
What is the new herbal yeast killer you are using?

http://www.modernherbalist.com/products/sf-722.html

This isn't where I bought it but where I googled first. I take 3 3x a day.

DD's sleep was terrible last night. At least she wasn't upset in the middle of the night, she just couldn't sleep. She even asked me to rock her back to sleep at one point. Luckily we have another adjustment for her today.


----------



## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

OT: *Search function is enabled*








:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Pattyla said:


> http://www.modernherbalist.com/products/sf-722.html
> 
> Oh that's the one derived from castor beans... let me know how it goes.
> I'm a little leary about castor oil but at this point I don't care, if it works. I'm not BF-ing any more, so I'm willing to take risks to get rid of the yeast beast.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Logansmom,

Have you tired giving him enzymes with the problem foods. A 3-yr old should eat more than cauliflowers and bananas. Proteins and fats are very important!
My DD has eczema and it was very bad last December (all over her tummy) after a round of abx for ear infection. That's when we started the diet and it's going really well. It's working for her and we never really did the induction. We don't use nut flours, though. I think nut flours and butters are a problem because they weren't soaked.
She is not allergic to eggs, so that's great. She also eats meat.

Have you tried serving the meat in a different way? Like in a casserole with cauliflower, (maybe broccoli as it's similar?). Can he eat cheese? I guess not if DCCC is a problem. Does he tolerate butter? Just drench everything in butter.
Have you tried the jello made with fruit juice? Chicken broth?

Eczema will get a lot worse (die-off) in the first few weeks. The worst part lasted about 2-3 weeks for me and I still get die-off cycles. I'm having a hard time with my hands right now.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

DS will not eat avocados, it's a texture thing I think. The only veggies he will eat are peas and carrots, and those only occasionally. He does sometimes eat yogurt or cheese. Some nuts too, but they are so expensive! He does like peanuts, but of course those aren't really nuts. I will try to avoid fruit as much as possible, but the only veggie dh will eat is lettuce (and some raw veggies). The pickiness is catching!


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Have you tired giving him enzymes with the problem foods.

I haven't tried enzymes because I am a little leary of them. Still researching.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Have you tried serving the meat in a different way?

Yes, we have tried it everyway we can think. He wasn't much of a meat eater before.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Have you tried the jello made with fruit juice? Chicken broth?

Yes, he tired of the jello early on. We started the intro on thursday, july 13th and he had stopped eating the jello by saturday the 15th. He wouldn't eat the soup and can't say that I blame him its not very good, besides he had a bad experience once with some chicken noodle soup, my mom fed him a heaping bowl not thinking that the noodles had eggs in them and he got sick and threw up everywhere. Of course everyone got the READ THE FREAKING LABELS lecture. I mix his juice with 1/2 broth every so often and he doesn't notice it.

He has been eating the meatballs until this weekend. So he has been getting some protein but one by one he's not wanting to eat the few foods that he can tolerate.

I can live through a few more weeks of this if I know it'll get better. I'm just having trouble deciding whether I should continue a food if it seems to make him itchier.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Is he OK with tomato paste? You could get the Muir Glen(??) or any organic one with no sugar or additives to make fake spaghetti with the meatballs and spaghetti squash. Squash is very well tolerated, have you tried it?

Do you know how to make Puerto Rican pasteles? It's made with bananas and they put raisins and meat in it and cook it for a long time wrapped in banana leaves/wax paper. That's another way to hide the meat.

Don't be afraid of enzymes, they are the safest thing you can do. Besides the die-off they have no side effects. Enzymes have been widely used for various ailments. I'm sure you read the sticky and what enzymestuff.com has to say. I know my daughter would break out all over if I didn't give her enzymes at MIL's. She can also tolerate oatmeal now.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

AHEM.

*<-------------- Ok Who Did This???*

I realize I've been posting a lot about poop lately!!


----------



## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Is he OK with tomato paste? You could get the Muir Glen(??) or any organic one with no sugar or additives to make fake spaghetti with the meatballs and spaghetti squash. Squash is very well tolerated, have you tried it?

I haven't tried anything involving tomotoes yet, he was sensitive to them before and I wanted to give him time to heal a little before trying them. We haven't tried squash but zuchinni is on my list this week. Actually in the morning.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Don't be afraid of enzymes, they are the safest thing you can do. Besides the die-off they have no side effects. Enzymes have been widely used for various ailments. I'm sure you read the sticky and what enzymestuff.com has to say. I know my daughter would break out all over if I didn't give her enzymes at MIL's. She can also tolerate oatmeal now.

I finally found some legal yogurt to use as starter so hopefully he doesn't react to it. If he does I found a local source of goat milk to try next. I'm going to get the yogurt started first and then the enzymes.

Also, one thing I forgot about is he is ok with onions and garlic. I have added those to the meatballs.

I'd like the recipe for the pasteles.

Thanks


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
AHEM.

*<-------------- Ok Who Did This???*

I realize I've been posting a lot about poop lately!!








May I direct everyone to page # 14, Post #280??????


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Hello, new here, hoping to get some ideas for healing my own gut. Before I intro more, may I ask about the enzymes taken between meals? What are they and where are they sold? Sorry if this is semi-redundant to other posts on here, I just saw the one post and it sounds like it might help me.
Anyhow, I recently went to a gut doc who ordered a bunch of lab tests; I spoke with the nurse yesterday and she said all results are normal except one of the three indicators of celiac is slightly elevated. I really don't think what I have is celiac. However, I am desperate for a diagnosis and even moreso for something, ANYTHING, that will help me. As it stands now, I might have IBD, or IBS, or celiac. Or none of these.







: Waiting for the doc to call with his official take on my results.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Hello, new here, hoping to get some ideas for healing my own gut. Before I intro more, may I ask about the enzymes taken between meals? What are they and where are they sold? Sorry if this is semi-redundant to other posts on here, I just saw the one post and it sounds like it might help me.

Enzymes between meals are mainly for clearing up yeast overgrowth (they may have other uses, too, which I can't think of right at the moment). Common ones used are Candex and Candidase, among others. You can find them at most HFS's or online (cheaper).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Logansmom*

I can live through a few more weeks of this if I know it'll get better. I'm just having trouble deciding whether I should continue a food if it seems to make him itchier.

IMO, if he's not digesting a food, he shouldn't be getting it because it's not doing him any good and might actually be doing more damage to his gut. As far as die-off/healing symptoms go, I was told that symptoms are okay as long as they don't make your child too uncomfortable. So if you/he are willing to deal with the itching for a bit, then it's okay to keep giving him the food. But if you think it's too much, or it causes behaviors that you don't want to deal with, don't give that food. Hopefully that makes sense...


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

I was just looking at and reading through some of the sticky info. This intrigued me in that it describes me:
12. *White specs in stools*:
1. Rice (may cannot even digest rice)
2. They've been eating paper
3. or, something else they can't break down. For my daughter this would include *any kind of bean, nut, seed, grain, vegetable, popcorn, etc*. She initially was ok with rice but later on (about 10 mos.) stopped being able to digest pretty much anything. Eventually found white little seeds from the Mesa Sunrise Waffles.

However, there was no explanation of what the daughter's diagnosis is. Can someone clue me in? Pretty please







?


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## Logansmom (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
IMO, if he's not digesting a food, he shouldn't be getting it because it's not doing him any good and might actually be doing more damage to his gut. As far as die-off/healing symptoms go, I was told that symptoms are okay as long as they don't make your child too uncomfortable. So if you/he are willing to deal with the itching for a bit, then it's okay to keep giving him the food. But if you think it's too much, or it causes behaviors that you don't want to deal with, don't give that food. Hopefully that makes sense...

Yes that makes perfect sense.

When I say really itchy I mean to the point of bleeding and sores that last for days because he won't stop scratching to let them heal. It really is horrible. Horrible that he has to go through it and equally horrible for us to watch. It is totally not worth him eating the food even if he loves it









He has had 5 BM's today(not runny, formed) and they all had bits of carrot in them. He hasn't had any carrots since sunday morning and those were pureed in some meatballs. Should he still be pooping carrots after that long?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

It seems like I always have many question!!

As I was reading the last few posts I wonder If Nolan's flair up of eczema is due to die off? I Started the yogurt about 2 weeks ago but the first 2 batches were not that great (yogurt got too hot) and finally this weeks yogurt is good. I also started the Candex about 4 days ago. Die-off? I was considering doing the intro diet for a day and sorta starting again.









should I consider taking enzymes with meals to help digest food as well as the Candex I am taking at the beginning and end of the day?

Logansmom- have you checked out the pecan bread yahoo group? A lot of people there are going through similar SCD issues with their children.

EBG-do you think you and your husband pass the yeast infection back and forth? What about it living on your sheets? This would be a HUGE pain but what about washing your sheets everyday? YOu could use GSE, I have heard it kills the yeast in the laundry. Have you been away from this area for any length of time, does it get better/worse? Is it possible that there is some allergen that exasterbates your symptoms? Just brainstorming...


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

I have not taken CS (when finances get better I am going to buy a machine and make my own), but I have heard such wonderful things about it. There are also negative things said about CS--kind of like the soy controversy--but I am almost positive it has to do with whomever funded the study. From what I understand, good CS should be clear or very light yellow.

One thing I have not heard was treating yeast with it, and I find that very interesting prospect. Thanks, EBG, for pointing that option out!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
It seems like I always have many question!!

As I was reading the last few posts I wonder If Nolan's flair up of eczema is due to die off? I Started the yogurt about 2 weeks ago but the first 2 batches were not that great (yogurt got too hot) and finally this weeks yogurt is good. I also started the Candex about 4 days ago. Die-off? I was considering doing the intro diet for a day and sorta starting again.









Very possible. My DD weho has no xema got a rash from me taking candidase.

should I consider taking enzymes with meals to help digest food as well as the Candex I am taking at the beginning and end of the day?

I think you would benefit from enzymes taken before meals.

EBG-do you think you and your husband pass the yeast infection back and forth? What about it living on your sheets? This would be a HUGE pain but what about washing your sheets everyday? YOu could use GSE, I have heard it kills the yeast in the laundry. Have you been away from this area for any length of time, does it get better/worse? Is it possible that there is some allergen that exasterbates your symptoms? Just brainstorming...

I rinse the laundry with vinegar. I wash the towels after one use. I scrub the tub before any of my kids take a bath, we take only showers. I don't wash the sheets every day but we don't sleep in the same bed (jimmy leg problems). It's possible that we pass it back and forth but he would never admit that he has yeast issues (I know he does because of digestion problems). He thinks this is quack science.
And even if we abstain for a period like several weeks, it doesn't get any better.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I have not taken CS (when finances get better I am going to buy a machine and make my own), but I have heard such wonderful things about it. There are also negative things said about CS--kind of like the soy controversy--but I am almost positive it has to do with whomever funded the study. From what I understand, good CS should be clear or very light yellow.

One thing I have not heard was treating yeast with it, and I find that very interesting prospect. Thanks, EBG, for pointing that option out!









I think it's mostly used for bad bacteria but I think I've heard it's also used for yeast. I'm not sure.....


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I have not taken CS (when finances get better I am going to buy a machine and make my own), but I have heard such wonderful things about it. There are also negative things said about CS--kind of like the soy controversy--but I am almost positive it has to do with whomever funded the study. From what I understand, good CS should be clear or very light yellow.

One thing I have not heard was treating yeast with it, and I find that very interesting prospect. Thanks, EBG, for pointing that option out!









I have taken cs for mastitis and given it to my cat for a bladder infection. It was like magic for both things.

I have been considering taking it for the yeast but haven't wanted to spend the money... In the past my m/w has offered to just give it to me (she has a generator) but I hate to impose... I need to just suck it up and buy a generator I think. It really is amazing stuff. I have a friend who treats all her kids illnesses with it.

I wouldn't drink a cup of it daily but to treat an acute illness it is great imo.

FWIW my m/w had me taking 1 tsp daily for the mastitis divided into 1/8 tsp doses.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Finally found MT's gut flora 101 study cites:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=15

(added to Cheat Sheet as well)


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

I am so frustrated today I could cry. THREE weeks ago I finally went to a gut doc, despite TWO YEARS of this hell; I have been afraid to go fearing the tests they would run (invasive) and the prospect of being told (as I was in the past on an unrelated problem), "There is nothing physically wrong with you" when there is VERY MUCH SO something VERY WRONG. Ok, so doc I happen to get seems to actually listen to me (shock!) and actually does not immediately toss prescription orders at me to be filled (shock!), orders up a plethora of lab tests (I am so afraid to get that bill....), even gives me his card and tells me to call if I have questions or have a bad attack. Oh and gave me some advice to try something over the counter (that seems to be helping marginally).

Monday I got tired of waiting to find out about my tests, so I called. Spoke with a nurse who said all the tests look normal, that she's not sure why the doc hasn't 'signed off' on them, but that he's not in, she'll have him call me Tuesday. He didn't. Yesterday I realized I am rather depressed about hearing those tests were all normal- here we go again, "There is nothing physically wrong with you.....", so I start reading and researching more, and lo and behold, leaky gut sounds really really like I should be looking into that avenue. This morning I get a call from another? nurse asking, "Just calling to see how you are doing." WTF?!?! How am I doing? I am wondering what the hell all my tests say and mean, first off, I am wondering why the doc won't call me second off, no, I am not miracurously cured after 2 years of hell just by a simple office visit and some over the counter goop, third off. I asked her about Leaky Gut. _*"Hmmm. I have worked here for just about a year and I've never heard of that."*_ WHAT?!?! A gastroenterology group, a nurse who stands in for a doc on calls to patients, and SHE'S NEVER EVER HEARD OF LEAKY GUT?!?!? WTF is going on?!?!? So I patiently (haha pun) explain that some of the symptoms sound a lot like me and I am curious what the doc's stance on leaky gut might be. At this point the conversation got sort of weird and strained, not overtly so, but enough that I felt I was carrying the whole conversation. They have me scheduled for a sigmoidoscopy in a few weeks. At the time he mentioned it during my appointment, I reminded him I'm pg, and he assured me that it was only a sig, that he'd be careful, that he wouldn't endanger my baby. Then I got home and read all the preparations I would have to do for that procedure, and it just really scares me with all the purging and enemas and other stuff that I've heard women do to INDUCE labor- I'm just not sure I want to do this while pg, YKWIM? I indicated to the nurse that I am not 100% sure today, at this moment, considering my pregnancy, that I am going to have that procedure next month. Oh my gosh I just finally remembered why she called- it was to ask me if I wanted to move that sig appt up sooner, per the doc, since 'you're not doing much better'. So I am leaving that appt as it stands, giving myself time to decide, but in the meantime I want to know if maybe we could do some testing toward the leaky gut aspect. She had no idea. She said for me not to be dismayed about my results, that she's pretty sure the doc will just order more blood tests so we can maybe find one that comes back abnormal and we can then look in that direction (wheeeee! more money I get to pay the lab).

So my main question after all that is: *do mainstream docs view leaky gut as one of those wacked-out, fringe, granola-type "explanations" that they won't lower themselves to even mention let alone entertain or (forbid!) pursue????* Right now I am frustrated that the doc can't bother himself to call me himself- just seems rude to me. It seems I completely baffled the nurse with either my knowledge or my worry (oh, excuse me for wanting to know what's wrong with me and for being very very tired and fed up with having to deal with it and no one having a clue what it is). She acted like the next step is the sig and other than that we're at a standstill. Who knows if this reflects what the doc thinks, since I'm not speaking with him, only his proxy. Just seems all my fears of bastard mainstream docs (of which I've had quite a few experiences, thus my reticence to go to any doc) are coming true in this case as well, meaning money and time down the drain and no answers, just humiliation and frustration, feeling like I'm screaming into a void.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Yes, sierratahoe, leaky gut syndrome is pretty much an alternative thing, some naturopaths and chiropractors believe in it, but it's definitely not accepted by the mainstream medical establishment (nor is candida overgrowth, except with AIDS patients).


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I got dd1's CDSA results just a bit ago. Boy are they difficult to interpret. I'll try to post them later.

Patty, did you have your naturopath interpret for you or did you read them yourself?


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

: I have been reading about enzymes and and I think I am going to start with a broad spectrum enzyme and go very slowly and then work my way up to taking the candex on an empty stomach. It looks like I tried to jump in far into the healing process and I need to start at the beginning. Poor Nolan, I feel like he is my guinea pig. But I know that breastmilk is still the best for him.

Nolan is grabbing for our food! Think it would be ok to give him bone broth with sodium ascorbate? He actually screams for our food if we eat around him.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Anyone in UK or ROI here?

I'd love to have The Inside Out Diet book and packet from Gut Week:
http://www.gutweek.org.uk/


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sierratahoe,

just google "gut flora". It's amazing how much current researchers know that hasn't trickled down to "regular" doctors yet.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Bristol Stool Scale*

Quote:

The Bristol Stool Scale or Bristol Stool Chart is a medical aid designed to classify the faeces form into seven groups. It was developed by Heaton and Lewis at the University of Bristol and was first published in the journal Scand J Gastroenterol in 1997. Because the form of the stool depends on the time it spends in the colon, there is a correlation between the colonic transit time and the stool type.

The seven types of stool are:

Type 1: Separate hard lumps, like nuts (hard to pass)
Type 2: Sausage-shaped, but lumpy
Type 3: Like a sausage but with cracks on its surface
Type 4: Like a sausage or snake, smooth and soft
Type 5: Soft blobs with clear cut edges (passed easily)
Type 6: Fluffy pieces with ragged edges, a mushy stool
Type 7: Watery, no solid pieces (entirely liquid)
Types 1 and 2 indicate constipation, with 3 and 4 being the "ideal stools" especially the latter, as they are the easiest to pass. 5-7 being further tending towards diarrhoea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Stool_Scale


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I got dd1's CDSA results just a bit ago. Boy are they difficult to interpret. I'll try to post them later.

Patty, did you have your naturopath interpret for you or did you read them yourself?

I haven't seen her yet but all I got tested was yeast and bacteria and that was pretty easy to intrepret.


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Sierratahoe, I am so sorry to hear about all this stuff you're going through!









My theory is that they don't _want_ to believe in Leaky Gut, because if the cause is eliminated so are the symptoms. And if the symptoms are eliminated, so is the need for the doctor...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I haven't seen her yet but all I got tested was yeast and bacteria and that was pretty easy to intrepret.

What were the results?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What were the results?

I posted this a few pages back. No yeast, no bacteria and no lactobaccili and lower than optimal levels of bifidus (or however those are spelled). I think the test was useless. DD obviously has yeast. I'm sorry we wasted our money on the test.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I found this article on the dangers of soy:
http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html

I am going to pass it on to many of my friends. I ate a lot of soy before going on SCD, I was convinced it was a healthy food.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
do mainstream docs view leaky gut as one of those wacked-out, fringe, granola-type "explanations" that they won't lower themselves to even mention let alone entertain or (forbid!) pursue????

I lucked out and found a family physician who actually reads the alternative medicine literature. When I mentioned leaky gut to her, she asked if I was taking glutamine for starters. She also offered to arrange for lab tests if my ND thought I needed some.

You might print out the following articles and give the relevant ones to your doc:

http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/9-...sbiosis9-2.pdf
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/9-...disease9-4.pdf
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/8-...disease8-3.pdf
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/2-3/dysbiosis.pdf
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/2-4/probiotics.pdf
http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/2-...rmiability.pdf

I'd also suggest you peruse their back issues for others - they're free.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I posted this a few pages back. No yeast, no bacteria and no lactobaccili and lower than optimal levels of bifidus (or however those are spelled). I think the test was useless. DD obviously has yeast. I'm sorry we wasted our money on the test.

IS this test useless? My 4 yr old still has soft mushy poops w/o form and I was going to call the Dr and get a CDSA for him. Are there some better than others? And the million $ question, will insurance pay for it?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
IS this test useless? My 4 yr old still has soft mushy poops w/o form and I was going to call the Dr and get a CDSA for him. Are there some better than others? And the million $ question, will insurance pay for it?

The gold standard for yeast/bacteria is the OAT, but it uses first AM urine... hard to do in little ones.

My ins. pays for the CDSA. We have BC/BS PPO which is the best one can get I think, fairly liberal with allowances.

Whether it's useless I don't know. The Environmental/DAN dr. we are seeing now thinks they are helpful but he always does the full CDSA, not just bacteria/yeast. So I'm actually doing one on DS this week.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The gold standard for yeast/bacteria is the OAT, but it uses first AM urine... hard to do in little ones.

My ins. pays for the CDSA. We have BC/BS PPO which is the best one can get I think, fairly liberal with allowances.

Whether it's useless I don't know. The Environmental/DAN dr. we are seeing now thinks they are helpful but he always does the full CDSA, not just bacteria/yeast. So I'm actually doing one on DS this week.

Both my boys are out of diapers, so it is a non issue. Should I request both, or is that overkill?

ETA:both tests, not both boys


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
I lucked out and found a family physician who actually reads the alternative medicine literature. When I mentioned leaky gut to her, she asked if I was taking glutamine for starters.

Thank you, bluets, I am buying some glutamine today! And thanks for the articles- they will certainly be of help to me, and we'll see if I even keep seeing this a$$ gut doc (who still hasn't called me, btw







: ) if I have the ovaries to hand him a bunch of info. (I've had really bad experiences with 'overstepping my boundaries' with docs and other medical staff [the whole lot of them are idiots, I'm convinced].)

Glutamine glutamine off to buy some glutamine....

ETA: Forgot to ask- *what dosage is recommended??*


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
My theory is that they don't _want_ to believe in Leaky Gut, because if the cause is eliminated so are the symptoms. And if the symptoms are eliminated, so is the need for the doctor...

Great minds.... I was thinking this exact thought!!

Thank you for the hug, I needed that!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Anyone in UK or ROI here?

I'd love to have The Inside Out Diet book and packet from Gut Week:
http://www.gutweek.org.uk/

Found the diet here:

*The Inside Out Diet*
(free if you register)
http://www.insideoutdiet.co.uk/

Will be reading today... download with me and let's discuss.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Both my boys are out of diapers, so it is a non issue. Should I request both, or is that overkill?

ETA:both tests, not both boys









I think so re: overkill, follow the links to both tests from the Cheat Sheet.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Greeeeat... DS is off enzymes for testing this week... just woking up screaming from his 1 hr. short nap.







:


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

So my yogurt failed again!

One issue is that my oven thermometer is not as accurate as I thought. It seems to make the best yogurt at ~95C. Also, it takes a long time to register the temp.

Going with 95C however, I find it a pain in the arse to get my oven to stay at that temp - I tried propping the door open, turing the light off or on depending. The stove/oven is one of those models where if I wanted to replace the bulb temporarily, it would be a laboured process







:

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do now.
Plan A: Buy a new oven therometer
Plan B: Buy a yogurt maker (apparently Yougourmet has a great one).

In the mean time, can I take this yogurt and add kefir grains to it and ferment it at room temp.? Any reasons why I shouldn't do this?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Found the diet here:

*The Inside Out Diet*
(free if you register)
http://www.insideoutdiet.co.uk/

Will be reading today... download with me and let's discuss.

I skimmed it...I'm not too impressed. Seems to be the traditional "healthy SAD"--low fat (especially saturated), little red meat, whole grains.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I skimmed it...I'm not too impressed. Seems to be the traditional "healthy SAD"--low fat (especially saturated), little red meat, whole grains.









:


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
In the mean time, can I take this yogurt and add kefir grains to it and ferment it at room temp.? Any reasons why I shouldn't do this?

Do that. It should work.

Short of buying a yogurt maker, you can try the cooler method. Just add some warm water to the bottom of the cooler and keep the cooler in a warm place (but not too hot in summer). I cover it in a blanket for further insulation. You might need to change the water once for 24 hour yogurt.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I finally figured out my yogurt situation for the summer.

Heat raw goat milk to 110 degrees. Add starter (I ran out of progurt so I've been using buffalo milk yogurt available at my co-op). Place in mason jars & place on top of wool army blanket. Place heating pad on LOW on top of jars & wrap the wool blanket around. It is working great.

Note, keep the heating pad on low unless you want 6 quarts of goat cheese







: Use high setting in the winter


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OK, this is OT, but DH is getting deployed at the beginning of next year. He will probably be required to get some vaxes before being deployed. Anyone have any suggestions on things he can do before and after the vaxes to minimize any damage? Anything to be done before needs to be something that can be done long-term as he may not have any advance notice, so he would just have to do whatever every day. He eats somewhat healthy (mostly whole foods, but lots of diet pop). I was thinking I would have him take some sodium ascorbate every day (maybe 5 grams?) plus extra after the vaxes. And maybe some CLO afterwards...I don't think I can get him to take it every day before.
(I did post this in the vax forum but thought I might get some answers here, too.)


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi,

I'm interested in possibly fermenting some veggies for Evan to see if he'll eat them that way, and I am also interested in trying water kefir. I don't know anything about this. I read the cheat sheet but I have some questions.

For the veggies, can anyone recommend where I can get a starter culture that is casein-free, and was not grown in any dairy medium ? (And how is the starter culture different from a capsule of probiotic that contains 3 lactos, 4 bifidos, and streptococcus thermophilus ? Is is possible to just use probiotic as a starter culture ?)

For the water kefir, grains don't sound very appealing. Is there any sort of powder I can use that is casein-free and can work for water kefir ?

I'm hoping that including cultured foods can get us off this plateau we are stuck on with DS's healing, and also maybe reduce the amount of money we have to spend on his probiotics. I need everything to be casein-free because he is so incredibly allergic and reactive to it.

Thanks !

Linda B.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

My dd's CDSA results said borderline yeast. The reference range goes up to 7.0. Hers was 7.0

I did not take her off of yogurt or enzymes for 3 days prior to testing though even though the test said to do that. I figured I wanted a picture of what's happening right now, not what WAS happening before we've made this little bit of progress.

Here's what I can't figure out:
Under Analyte - Digestion/Absorption

Putrefactive SCFA's (simple chain fatty acids) she's waaaay out of reference range. Hers is 11/3 (range is from 1/3-8.6)

I don't understand this at all. I mean I know what putrefactive means and I know scfa's are related to the digestion of protein but that's it. The test results do not explain anything but they do give lists of anitbiotics that can be considered "helpful or not to much."









She has lots of e.coli bacteria (under beneficial bacteria) so that's good - has enough bifidobacerium but *NO* lactobacillus species *AT ALL*. What do I do about that? Shouldn't the 24 hour yogurt be giving her this too?????

I'm so confused.







:

Jane, want some practice interpreting dd's results so you'll be an expert at ds's when his come back?









I actually found out about a naturopath in this area I didn't know about before and am going to call tomorrow to see if he'll see dd and perhaps help me interpret. Don't know if he sees kids though. It's slim pickin's in my area.

Oh and no for the yeast. Well, actually borderline as a "Potential Pathogen" so I'm guessing that means we've gotten it under control somewhat.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

BTW Linda,
There is a fermenting thread under nutrition somewhere. Now that the search function is working you ought to be able to find it. Lots of good info there.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Hi,

I'm interested in possibly fermenting some veggies for Evan to see if he'll eat them that way, and I am also interested in trying water kefir. I don't know anything about this. I read the cheat sheet but I have some questions.

For the veggies, can anyone recommend where I can get a starter culture that is casein-free, and was not grown in any dairy medium ? (And how is the starter culture different from a capsule of probiotic that contains 3 lactos, 4 bifidos, and streptococcus thermophilus ? Is is possible to just use probiotic as a starter culture ?)

For the water kefir, grains don't sound very appealing. Is there any sort of powder I can use that is casein-free and can work for water kefir ?

I'm hoping that including cultured foods can get us off this plateau we are stuck on with DS's healing, and also maybe reduce the amount of money we have to spend on his probiotics. I need everything to be casein-free because he is so incredibly allergic and reactive to it.

Thanks !

Linda B.

You don't actually need a starter culture for veggies, just the veggies, filtered water, and salt (and seasonings if desired). Some recipes call for whey, but you can omit it or use liquid from a previous batch of fermented veggies (ie liquid from sauerkraut made w/o whey). There is a powder for making water kefirs. I don't know if it contains casein or not--if you google it, or check the Body Ecology website, you should be able to find it. The water kefir grains are actually really cool--they look like little clear jewels. They're not all slimy like the milk ones if you've seen those.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I skimmed it...I'm not too impressed. Seems to be the traditional "healthy SAD"--low fat (especially saturated), little red meat, whole grains.

Yeah









Sorry I should have checked it before posting. I was just so thrilled to see some other diet for gut flora.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Also, mamas with yeast and eczema issues...
Is anybody getting better? I'm very very itchy......arghh
Last week after starting culturelle again after 6 months, it started getting better, I had like two spots altogether, now I'm covered again and it's as bad as it was before the diet and supplements. If it's die-off again,why is it coming back? Why I can't I get rid of this stupid yeast since last December?
I have tried:
candida diet, SCD, NT, combination,
probiotics - culturelle and SCD yogurt and kefir
enzymes -Digest, Digest Gold
taking CLO, butter, CO, garlic, multivitamin, extra zinc, vitamin C, folic acid, B12, cal-mag dolomite, glutamine,
No sugar, grains (except NT oatmeal occasionnaly), no fruit, honey, no raw veggies except occassional tomatoes, no cheese
lots of eggs, meat, veggies, butter, broth

I can't do EPO or borage or flax- they give me hives

please help!!!! I'm going crazy!!

What about enzymes between meals? Candex, Candidase... ?

Whoops, I just saw in another post you did Candidase with no effect. One hour before or two hours after eating? Morning and night? I've never used Candidase but it seems pretty high in proteases.

What about environmental issues? Mold in home?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
I found this article on the dangers of soy:
http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html

I am going to pass it on to many of my friends. I ate a lot of soy before going on SCD, I was convinced it was a healthy food.

_Mothering_ actually had an article not too long ago:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html

More info at www.westonaprice.org too.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Found the diet here:

*The Inside Out Diet*
(free if you register)
http://www.insideoutdiet.co.uk/

Will be reading today... download with me and let's discuss.

I took a quick look. They want you to buy their probiotic product, that is the most important part of the diet







. Not too much different from what everyone touts as the 'healthy diet'-low fat, whole grains, low fat milk products, lean meats, and lots of fruits and veggies. Ho-hum.

They did have nice pictures of poop


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
(jimmy leg problems).

this is sign of magnesium deficiency.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
I was just looking at and reading through some of the sticky info. This intrigued me in that it describes me:
12. *White specs in stools*:
1. Rice (may cannot even digest rice)
2. They've been eating paper
3. or, something else they can't break down. For my daughter this would include *any kind of bean, nut, seed, grain, vegetable, popcorn, etc*. She initially was ok with rice but later on (about 10 mos.) stopped being able to digest pretty much anything. Eventually found white little seeds from the Mesa Sunrise Waffles.

However, there was no explanation of what the daughter's diagnosis is. Can someone clue me in? Pretty please







?

This looks like it was a post from the Enzymes and Autism Yahoo group. Because Karen DeFelice has 2 DS's no DD's. You can post over there and ask, not just for autism and not just for kids.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Hello, new here, hoping to get some ideas for healing my own gut. Before I intro more, may I ask about the enzymes taken between meals? What are they and where are they sold? Sorry if this is semi-redundant to other posts on here, I just saw the one post and it sounds like it might help me.
Anyhow, I recently went to a gut doc who ordered a bunch of lab tests; I spoke with the nurse yesterday and she said all results are normal except one of the three indicators of celiac is slightly elevated. I really don't think what I have is celiac. However, I am desperate for a diagnosis and even moreso for something, ANYTHING, that will help me. As it stands now, I might have IBD, or IBS, or celiac. Or none of these.








: Waiting for the doc to call with his official take on my results.

Then they are not doing the right tests... what tests were they?

I'm highly suspect of any mainstream gi healing guts. Only if you can find one who is really top in their field. Bacterial overgrowth is being studied now in mainstream medicine but it's going to take a LONG time for it to trickle down. Did he test for SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth?

I *would not* do any sort of enema, etc. for testing while pg. That is ridiculous. Besides, what are they going to see and what are they going to tell you it's caused by. And what are they going to offer as treatments for lets say... inflammation? Steriods? No thank you.

Sorry I'm not being helpful with these thoughts, but I have less than any respect for the way medicine is practiced. Mainstream medicine generally doesn't cure disease, they only treat symptoms with drugs.

Oops, sorry I'm so distracted lately...

See link entitled Yeast/Bacteria at www.enzymestuff.com for info about taking them between meals and for what purpose.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The IBS Bulletin Boards might be helpful as well: http://ibsgroup.org/groupee/forums


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Logansmom*
reaction to the boiled raisins was interesting. He was up itchy all night, then he peed so much the next day he leaked 3 times and then finally the next day he pooped them out. Was this a die off reaction?

Not likely as dried fruit is very hard to break down and should not be at the beginning part of the diet.

It's hard to discern die off in another person. In myself, I knew that gas/bloating/maldigestion meant I wasn't tolerating something. Die off was more nausea, dizziness, headache.

Quote:

[Should I be expecting any improvement in the eczema yet? It is awful. His legs from top to bottom are covered. The tops of his feet are raw, cracked, flaky and just so sore and horrible looking. His arms and hands. His belly itches and it has never been on his belly. He is getting spots behind his ears again and they have broken out for more than a year. He is miserable








I'm so sorry!!! It is awful to see your child suffer like this, I know.
Have you tried cod liver oil and evening primrose oil? EPO is good topically as well. Also natural antihistamine is quercitin. But high doses of vit. C might be very helpful as well in neutralizing toxins and modulating histamine reactions. Also might help with sleeping.

I wouldnt feed him so much sulfur foods, that can indeed throw body chemistry off. What about green beans (cooked until soft), zucchini, yellow squash, avocado? DS tolerates those well and he is stuck in beginning stages still.

The latest favorite veggie dish is peeled yellow squash made into strips like noodles with a vegetable peeler. Cook over high heat in lots of butter until just starting to turn brown on edges. Stir constantly. Sea salt. Taste just like real noodles.

Quote:

What kind of testing is suggested for metal toxicity(he was vaxinated) vit/min deficiency, bacteria, etc?
Metals, do a Hair Elements test
www.noamalgam.com and Yahoo group that Cutler posts on:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ (see testing info there)
[/QUOTE]


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sorry Logansmom....

For vit/min deficiency and bacteria see testing links in Cheat Sheet sticky.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Putrefactive SCFA's (simple chain fatty acids) she's waaaay out of reference range. Hers is 11/3 (range is from 1/3-8.6)

I believe these are the toxic metabolites from bad bacteria or possibly yeast.

Quote:

She has lots of e.coli bacteria (under beneficial b acteria) so that's good - has enough bifidobacerium but *NO* lactobacillus species *AT ALL*. What do I do about that? Shouldn't the 24 hour yogurt be giving her this too?????

I'm so confused.







:

...

Oh and no for the yeast. Well, actually borderline as a "Potential Pathogen" so I'm guessing that means we've gotten it under control somewhat.
I'm confused, you said yeast was 7.0 and here you are saying no?

What yogurt starter are you using? None is surprising. Your poop is half bacteria. Some of it should be good. I dont' know much about e. coli.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What about enzymes between meals? Candex, Candidase... ?

Whoops, I just saw in another post you did Candidase with no effect. One hour before or two hours after eating? Morning and night? I've never used Candidase but it seems pretty high in proteases.

What about environmental issues? Mold in home?

Yes there is mold in one of our bathrooms and I can't really do anything about it. Around the tub the caulk is black. I've tired various cleaners, bleach, vinegar, mold-zyme, everything. Remodelling is out of the question right now.
The other rooms seem to be mold-free. I think the air is actually too dry but I don't want to encourage mold-growth.

I know I'm nickel sensitive (snaps on jeans, jewelry) so I got rid of nickel-brushed handles, stainless steel pots, etc. It didn't make a difference.
I don't know why my hands are affected.

I'm pretty sure it's yeast related becuase of the huge die-off I had at first. Rash everywhere on my upper body, ears, headaches, leg pain, fatigue...
i also have (*WARNING TMI) pruritus ani.









I took Candidase for only a week, I got the 7 day-dose and it did nothing but give DD a pimply rash. Although I didn't take it with a killer herb. I can't stomach garlic without food, so I didn't take it with candidase, and at that time I was bfing so no OOO, GSE and the like. I'll give it a try again after the next paycheck... maybe Candex...

Jane, you seem to know a lot about enzymes. I could not find any info about this but I think I've been gaining weight due to high potency enzymes. I have not changed my diet and I have gained weight since starting Digest Gold. My theory is that as the amyleses convert carbs into glucose it raises blood sugar and causes weight gain... Does this sound crazy?
I just don't know why I'm gaining weight on a high-fat, low-carb diet. Maybe thyroid? I've been using sea salt and Elaine says it has no iodine. although NT says unrefined sea salt has. I'm not doing kelp because of the oligosaccharides or di-? Whatever.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
For the water kefir, grains don't sound very appealing. Is there any sort of powder I can use that is casein-free and can work for water kefir ?

See water kefir grains thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=440795

They are yummy. The grains don't smell or anything, very easy to use.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Edina,

Are parasites or some other thing like that a possiblity given the p.a. issue? Not that it couldn't be yeast as well but just trying to think of another factor that is suppressing your immune system.

I'm so sorry you are having such an awful time!!









I have no idea about the enzymes, but I do know that gut flora has a LOT to do with weight gain. I've just read some things recently about this but didn't save. Google obesity and gut flora. Also Elaine said something about it with respect to toddlers and the short chain fatty acids/alcohol they produce if they have gut flora issues causing weight gain. At Healing Crow website I think.

The thyroid is so delicate and I know less than nothing about it. Gale Force might have some ideas? That can effect immune system too. And it could be something other than iodine that is causing your issues with it.

NT also suggests fish broth made with fish heads for iodine. I haven't quite gotten that far myself though!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Terri,

Go here for CDSA explanations: http://www.gdx.net/home/education/da...documents.html

I haven't read yet, my eyes are crossing...


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ignore that part where I said the yeast reference range goes up to 7.0. That's something else. (Eosinophil Protein X) Another thing I haven't a clue about.

DD's yeast results are listed as a "potential" pathogen and isn't in the "red" zone. It's borderline though so








does this mean she's got it or not?

I'm betting that if I had taken her off of the yogurt before testing that it would've been in the red. Don't know for sure though. She had been showing less signs of yeast imo before the test and has actually been poopying on the potty for over 2 solid weeks now EVERY day!









and one other thing "in the red': Beta-glucuronidase. Whatever that is.

Gotta do some more research . . . If I knew how difficult this was going to be I would've talked dd's ped into ordering the test and insurance could've paid for it to boot.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ah, we cross posted. Thanks for the link.
My eyes are crossing too. Will read tomorrow.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

OK, I read it, the whole thing. I still have a basic question....do Ijust let the stuff sit at room temperature, and should the container be sealed shut or left to vent a little ?

And a more curious question - the engineer part of me keeps asking, why can't I just take a cup of cranberry juice and open a probiotic capsule into it and mix it and let it sit in a jar for 24 hours and see what happens ? Is it possible that my expensive Kirkman's probiotics could multiply like that ? Would it taste awful ? Would I land myself in the hospital if I try it ? If it could be this simple, that would be wonderful....

Linda B.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
See water kefir grains thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=440795

They are yummy. The grains don't smell or anything, very easy to use.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Edina,

Are parasites or some other thing like that a possiblity given the p.a. issue? Not that it couldn't be yeast as well but just trying to think of another factor that is suppressing your immune system.

I'm so sorry you are having such an awful time!!









I have no idea about the enzymes, but I do know that gut flora has a LOT to do with weight gain. I've just read some things recently about this but didn't save. Google obesity and gut flora. Also Elaine said something about it with respect to toddlers and the short chain fatty acids/alcohol they produce if they have gut flora issues causing weight gain. At Healing Crow website I think.

The thyroid is so delicate and I know less than nothing about it. Gale Force might have some ideas? That can effect immune system too. And it could be something other than iodine that is causing your issues with it.

NT also suggests fish broth made with fish heads for iodine. I haven't quite gotten that far myself though!


I was also thinking about parazites but I see no "worms" in the feces. Also, I eat so much garlic it would kill them... but still, I have no idea. I can't have a test done for financial reasons. Should I just try wormwood and see if something happens?
I also find that yogurt gives me relief, I was thinking parazites wouldn't be affected by it. TMI: And the itching is all over down there except inside the v. More like around it and tha a. Sounds more like yeast to me, but who knows.

Weight issues:
In the beginning I lost weight, by February or March I was down to 98 lbs. I haven't changed anyhthing except for some supplements and now I'm back to about 115. It's still not a lot, I know but I don't want to gain more. I was also thinking because I stopped breasfeeding, maybe that's why... but I didn't gain weight after I stopped nursing DD #1.


----------



## Mynn (Nov 18, 2003)

Thanks


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
OK, I read it, the whole thing. I still have a basic question....do Ijust let the stuff sit at room temperature, and should the container be sealed shut or left to vent a little ?

And a more curious question - the engineer part of me keeps asking, why can't I just take a cup of cranberry juice and open a probiotic capsule into it and mix it and let it sit in a jar for 24 hours and see what happens ? Is it possible that my expensive Kirkman's probiotics could multiply like that ? Would it taste awful ? Would I land myself in the hospital if I try it ? If it could be this simple, that would be wonderful....

Linda B.

Yes just let it sit at room temperature. You should have at least an inch of space at the top of the container. Some recipes say to screw the lid on and some say to just set it on the container without screwing it on.

I have no idea about the probiotic thing--I guess you could try it and see what happens. I don't know what probiotic need to multiply. But if you have water kefir grains you can just add them to juice and let them sit for a while to make juice kefir, which would be just as easy once you get the grains.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks ! I still haven't figured out where to get the water kefir grains though, other than that German website, which sounds very expensive, and also appears to be in German, which is another issue. Is there anyplace else to get them ?

Linda B.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
But if you have water kefir grains you can just add them to juice and let them sit for a while to make juice kefir, which would be just as easy once you get the grains.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

*Recipe for Cultured Veggies*
http://bodyecology.com/cveggies.php
Make sure the liquid covers the veggies. Someone made some for me once and the liquid did not cover the veggies-so aerobic bacteria, not justs anerobic bacteria, probably multiplied. Not knowing that this was any big deal, and even though the veggies smelled questionable, I ate some. Bad idea! I had horrible cramping and diarrhea for two days. So in trying to cure yeast, I had introduced bad bacteria into my system. Things definitely got worse for me after this happened.

Sometimes in the refrig section of health food stores you can find raw sauerkraut. Expensive, but at least you know it probably isn't contaminated.

*Linda*-I've wondered about just using a probiotic capsule too. Why do we need all these "starters?" My undergrad degree is in microbiology!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Thanks ! I still haven't figured out where to get the water kefir grains though, other than that German website, which sounds very expensive, and also appears to be in German, which is another issue. Is there anyplace else to get them ?

Linda B.

If you post in the Nutrition forum looking for some, someone usually has some to share. Or you can get them on eBay--that's where I got mine (I think it was around $12 including shipping, maybe a little less).


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









*Bristol Stool Scale*

The Bristol Stool Scale or Bristol Stool Chart is a medical aid designed to classify the faeces form into seven groups. It was developed by Heaton and Lewis at the University of Bristol and was first published in the journal Scand J Gastroenterol in 1997. Because the form of the stool depends on the time it spends in the colon, there is a correlation between the colonic transit time and the stool type.

The seven types of stool are:

Type 1: Separate hard lumps, like nuts (hard to pass)
Type 2: Sausage-shaped, but lumpy
Type 3: Like a sausage but with cracks on its surface
Type 4: Like a sausage or snake, smooth and soft
Type 5: Soft blobs with clear cut edges (passed easily)
Type 6: Fluffy pieces with ragged edges, a mushy stool
Type 7: Watery, no solid pieces (entirely liquid)
Types 1 and 2 indicate constipation, with 3 and 4 being the "ideal stools" especially the latter, as they are the easiest to pass. 5-7 being further tending towards diarrhoea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Stool_Scale

For weeks now I have had type 1, and if I am lucky, type 2.







I had run out of SA, and got a new supply last night and took some. It is most likely what contributed to actually having some type 4 this morning. (I swear I can't discuss like this on any other thread.







) I am now prone towards some upset, as in nausea, which I am hoping is a good thing, re die-off? I am also feeling more tenderness all along my large intestine, not just one spot. I have no idea what that means, other than the inflammation is spreading.

I have been feeling really discouraged lately. My stomach reached some of the huge proportions (distention/bloat) that I had before starting anything to heal. I have also been back to my old tactics of self-mediating with food for my latest plunge into a further depression. Mostly SCD legal, if advanced, some not.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Interesting...I read that link - my probitic has L. Plantarum, the same stuff that's in their starter culture.

Thanks for the tip on getting everything covered ! I definitely don't want to go through what you did !

I just got home from buying some cabbage, quart jars, and pickling salt. (Can I use quart mason jars to do this ?) I found a sauerkraut recipe that doesn't need a starter. ( I forgot to buy the distilled water though - doh !)

This morning I put a little juice in a glass salad-dressing shaker and put a capsule in it and shook it up, put the lid on, and I'm watching it to see if it bubbles at some point. (mad scientist at work - LOL !)

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
*Recipe for Cultured Veggies*
http://bodyecology.com/cveggies.php
Make sure the liquid covers the veggies. Someone made some for me once and the liquid did not cover the veggies-so aerobic bacteria, not justs anerobic bacteria, probably multiplied. Not knowing that this was any big deal, and even though the veggies smelled questionable, I ate some. Bad idea! I had horrible cramping and diarrhea for two days. So in trying to cure yeast, I had introduced bad bacteria into my system. Things definitely got worse for me after this happened.

Sometimes in the refrig section of health food stores you can find raw sauerkraut. Expensive, but at least you know it probably isn't contaminated.

*Linda*-I've wondered about just using a probiotic capsule too. Why do we need all these "starters?" My undergrad degree is in microbiology!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I just got home from buying some cabbage, quart jars, and pickling salt. (Can I use quart mason jars to do this ?) I found a sauerkraut recipe that doesn't need a starter. ( I forgot to buy the distilled water though - doh !)

Linda

Yes you can use quart mason jars. You don't need distilled water, just non-chlorinated water. You can boil tap water for 30 minutes to remove the chlorine.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What yogurt starter are you using? None is surprising. Your poop is half bacteria. Some of it should be good. I dont' know much about e. coli.
I've been using regular Dannon all along. I never did try anything else but will now.

Guess I'll try yogourmet though.

BTW Jane, thanks so much for that link re: CDSA analysis - it is very helpful! Dunno why I didn't think to look there.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Oh, excellent, thank you ! I'm boiling water now









Also, my probiotic experiment is doing something - there is a small ring of little foamy bubbles gathering around the edge of the top of the liquid. I can't see the bubbles rising, but the foam is building up slowly. If nothing else, maybe this is a way to get more mileage out of the probitics I buy - let them multiply a bit in juice and then have DS drink the juice ? Would this be a bad thing to do ? I was thinking maybe it would be good for them to be more awake and active when he takes them, and that he might get more this way if they have multiplied in the juice ?

Of course I'll try it on myself before I give it to him.

Linda

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yes you can use quart mason jars. You don't need distilled water, just non-chlorinated water. You can boil tap water for 30 minutes to remove the chlorine.


----------



## Manonash (Jun 2, 2006)

Mind if I join in? I'm pretty new here.

I was doing SCD for 9 months very strictly until I was about 3 mths pg with DD. Then, I was getting pretty nauseated and eating complex carbs helped. I tolerated them pretty well while I was pg. Since delivery, I've sorta gone back to feeling badly again (food sensitivities, nerve pain...), and really need to go back on SCD but am having a hard time making the decision to do it again. It just takes so much time. Anyone modifying it a little (using bottled spices, etc.)? I know Elaine said not to. I know people who have severe reactions to things could have lifethreatening rxns if they don't follow it exactly, but I'm not one of those. Has anyone here successfully done any modifications of it?

Hi Patty! Thanks for telling me about this group!


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I need help from those of you who are educated on all this stuff! My daughter is 8 weeks old, and so far I know she has an intolerance (through my bm) to dairy, soy, bananas, apples, and cantaloupe. She seems to handle wheat, brown rice, squash, sweet potatoes, carrots, green peas, basil, garlic, olive oil, turkey, pork, & chicken. That's all I know since that's as far as I've gotten on an elimination diet. She is (and always has been) exclusively breastfed and had no abx (or any kind of drug) at birth. I did eat a lot of dairy when I was pregnant and probably didn't eat as many raw foods as I should have.

When I eat an offending food, she vomits large amounts with accompanying crying (this is no happy spit-up scene!) right after eating and every few minutes for up to an hour afterwards. We're talking LOADS of laundry. She also acts very colicky and cries. Any mama could tell this a pained cry - not just normal fussing. At first I thought it was all just related to gulping air (and thus gas) due to an abundant supply and fast let down with my milk, but when that started correcting itself and the yakking continued, I figured something was wrong.

I have wandered through the healing the gut thread, read many of the links on the cheat sheet, looked at the enzyme and probiotic info, but I still have a few starter questions (needless to say, this is all very overwhelming and I'm trying to do my research without neglecting my 3 yr old and newborn!)

1)Just looking at myself and reading about symptoms, etc, I would not tend to say I have a leaky gut. But if dd has food intolerances and is exclusively bf, does that mean that I obviously do?
2)What do I need to be doing right now while she is still exclusively breastfed? I know to not give her (or me) abx, no vaccines, and keep exclusively breastfeeding, but what beyond that? It seems to me that a probiotic for me is a good idea. What about directly for the baby? My main goal is to fix this problem (if its fixable) as soon as possible for the baby's sake.
3)I've read a lot about the enzymes, and that seems promising, but a little daunting. Should I do some of these (and are they even passed through bm?) or just eat more raw foods? If so, what is a good starter enzyme treatment?

TIA!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinlivilou*
When I eat an offending food, she vomits large amounts with accompanying crying (this is no happy spit-up scene!) right after eating and every few minutes for up to an hour afterwards. We're talking LOADS of laundry. She also acts very colicky and cries. Any mama could tell this a pained cry - not just normal fussing. At first I thought it was all just related to gulping air (and thus gas) due to an abundant supply and fast let down with my milk, but when that started correcting itself and the yakking continued, I figured something was wrong.

Lovin, This sounds exactly like ds at exactly that age. The pained spit ups ONLY with offending food, and severe crying until I could burp the gas away did go away when I ate a pure diet. So did the spit up. I did find that I could burp a lot of the gas free by applying pressure directly to his abdomen either with my thigh and patting his back very vigorously (supporting head upright, of course), or placing him up high with his belly on my shoulder and burping hard. His crying would be so severe, that I was nearly in tears myself wanting to do *something* for his obvious pain.

I too ate a lot of dairy in pregnancy, I really believe this is a variable.
As we are exposed to an allergen our immune system becomes more and more reactive to it. BTW, I wonder if you have many mercury fillings in your teeth? We seem to all believe that this is a huge variable.

The ladies here can help with some additional ideas like Vit. C, CLO, CO, Magnesium to maximize your nutrition too. Have you tried "Gripe Water" for the baby? It really helped when I accidently ate something new or offending. Carrying ds in the sling helped to keep him upright and apply pressure to his abdomen also.

I'll just mention that the offending foods increased over time. Some that were ok early on (it seemed), became issues. Specifically all corn products, soy, WHEAT, tomatoes, onions, cabbage family, cinnammon (!), garlic, etc. You might continue to avoid the common intolerances in advance of symptoms. I believe that is a huge variable in how well ds was able to overcome the intolerances. I identified the culprit foods very early and didn't introduce them back to either of our diets until well after age two when his immune system was more fully developed. Extended nursing, no vaccines and no anx, of course.







Now our son can eat most all of these foods without issue. The SCD is reported to address the underlying gut leakage so that all foods are tolerated eventually. We just did the elimination diet, I hadn't heard of SCD then. Ds is 5 now.

Best wishes. It is hard.

Pat


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I've been using regular Dannon all along. I never did try anything else but will now.

Guess I'll try yogourmet though.

BTW Jane, thanks so much for that link re: CDSA analysis - it is very helpful! Dunno why I didn't think to look there.









I don't think the problem is dannon if you are getting super tart yogurt at end of 24h. I was just curious if you were using the l. casei starter (ProGurt). Although I'm sure diff. companies use diff. strains though now that I think of it.

YW re: link. Let me know if it sparks any thoughts.

boy do I *hate* squishing poop in those little vials!!!!!

And dontcha know DS's poop has been solid all week so we have to start all over again b/c I opted not to do the laxative. Gave him applesauce and strawberries today, that should do it.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Anyone have a vote on a fruit to try? I'm so sick of no fruit.

So far watermellon was a bad choice.

As was either cherries or rasberries (not sure which one).

The bananas actually didn't seem to be bad but then that was a really hard day so perhaps the fruit contributed and I missed it.

Ideas???

Of course even w/o fruit we are having a very 2 year old time of it lately so who knows if I'll even be able to tell a reaction from a normal day.







:

I think I have the menu planned for next week. Wish me luck.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I almost forgot to mention.

I can take enzymes again!!!









I try them every couple of weeks and they always have given me a stomach ache but not today. I'm so excited!!!


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Lovin, This sounds exactly like ds at exactly that age. The pained spit ups ONLY with offending food, and severe crying until I could burp the gas away did go away when I ate a pure diet. So did the spit up. I did find that I could burp a lot of the gas free by applying pressure directly to his abdomen either with my thigh and patting his back very vigorously (supporting head upright, of course), or placing him up high with his belly on my shoulder and burping hard. His crying would be so severe, that I was nearly in tears myself wanting to do *something* for his obvious pain.

I too ate a lot of dairy in pregnancy, I really believe this is a variable.
As we are exposed to an allergen our immune system becomes more and more reactive to it. BTW, I wonder if you have many mercury fillings in your teeth? We seem to all believe that this is a huge variable.

The ladies here can help with some additional ideas like Vit. C, CLO, CO, Magnesium to maximize your nutrition too. Have you tried "Gripe Water" for the baby? It really helped when I accidently ate something new or offending. Carrying ds in the sling helped to keep him upright and apply pressure to his abdomen also.

I'll just mention that the offending foods increased over time. Some that were ok early on (it seemed), became issues. Specifically all corn products, soy, WHEAT, tomatoes, onions, cabbage family, cinnammon (!), garlic, etc. You might continue to avoid the common intolerances in advance of symptoms. I believe that is a huge variable in how well ds was able to overcome the intolerances. I identified the culprit foods very early and didn't introduce them back to either of our diets until well after age two when his immune system was more fully developed. Extended nursing, no vaccines and no anx, of course.







Now our son can eat most all of these foods without issue. The SCD is reported to address the underlying gut leakage so that all foods are tolerated eventually. We just did the elimination diet, I hadn't heard of SCD then. Ds is 5 now.

Best wishes. It is hard.

Pat

Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury). Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine! I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously. Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.

thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury). Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine! I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously. Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.

thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!

Sorry about the LO having such a hard time. We had problems with spitting up and I kept asking the doctor if it was a normal amount of spit up because DS was not complaining about it and did not seem in pain. The dr said it was normal







: . I was on SCD for about a week when ds all but stopped spitting up. Now he spits up when I eat a food that I don't digest well (adding a food too early). He has eczema flair ups to foods that he is sensitive to (most fruit so far.) You can do SCD without dairy, although you may find that since the dairy foods you eat do not have lactose they may not bother your DD. SCD is worth a try. Enzymes could also help here is a link to the low and slow method of starting enzymes:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm#5

Also there are some allergens in foods (ie birch pollen allergy) that are minimized when the offending food is cooked. Cooked foods are also easier for the body to digest.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
boy do I *hate* squishing poop in those little vials!!!!!








Oh man, the other night all I dreamed about was poop tests and hair tests. I really am







:







s


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.

Have you tried raw goat milk? My older DS & I cannot tolerate cow milk whatsoever (cramping, stomach upset, constant & extreme congestion, etc) but we have no issue at all w/goat milk.

hth


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I have some supplements that I am not going to use anymore. I hate to just throw them away if someone else wants them, especially since I know how expensive these diets/supplements are. They have all been opened, but if someone wants them, they are free for shipping (DH says I have to ask for shipping costs). I have NOW brand MSM powder (8 oz bottle, roughly 1/4 remaining), NOW brand L-glutamine 1000 mg capsules (120 ct, roughly 1/2 remaining), NOW brand zinc picolinate 50 mg capsules (60 ct, roughly 1/3 remaining), and Liquimin's Trace Minerals ionic zinc liquid (this one is almost full--apparently I am not zinc deficient as it tastes so nasty I could not get it down). If anyone's interested, let me know...

ETA They're all taken


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou*
Thanks. Luckily, I have no mercury fillings (I only have one filling, and it's not mercury).


Ok, you are blowing our theory! Although, I am very glad for you not to have the mercury exposure. I probably did eat some tuna (considered high in mercury) while pregnant, maybe, I think, I am not certain. Which could be another variable for us.

Quote:

Your gas relieving techniques pretty much describe our nightly routine!
Yes, it is so stressful for your baby to be in pain.

Quote:

I've tried gripe water, and it seems to help some, but not tremendously.
There is some homeopathy for specific allergens too. For wheat, dairy, grass, pollens, etc. My friend used them when her children had food intolerances and it helped with the symptoms. I don't know the name of it. I'll try to find out. We are all on classical homeopathy, I believe that is a big part of ds's tolerance to foods too. I honestly don't know if it is all elimination diet or mostly homeopathy or the combo.









Quote:

Thanks for the heads up about avoiding other potential allergens. It's just so dang hard with so few foods to eat! I haven't finished my research on SCD, but so far I'm not seeing how to do it with her dairy intolerance. I know you can technically eat offending foods while healing the gut, but I honestly don't think I can take the pain that it causes dd.
Can you add salmon? I believe fish is allowed on SCD. Wild Alaskan salmon (not farm raised) is supposed to be low risk of mercury and it is high in essential fatty acids. I lived on salmon for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Or eggs? I would hard boil them and peel them and have them in a baggie for middle of the night snacks. Egg salad, chicken salad, salmon salad. I found that eating protein was less of an issue than eating enough fats and calories. (I hope I didn't miss that you are vegan.)







We use rice milk as a substitute. The Rice Dream milk substitute (Vanilla Enriched) is tolerable and invisible in recipes. But, probably illegal SCD??? Almond milk is another option. Goat's milk is possible too. We like it, but ds had issues with it until about age 3-4. It is very similar in the protein structure to dairy. Of course, avoid soy. I believe that smoothies are the easiest way to add fat calories (w/flax and coconut oils). And eating nut butters adds calories. I just eat a tablespoon of nut butter whenever I am hungry. That is quick and easy. (although I'd avoid peanut products until after age 2, minimum!!) And avacados are high in fat, as is coconut.

Quote:

thanks for the info about your kiddo - it gives me hope that this isn't a forever thing!
It won't last forever. Her immune system will get stronger with the avoidance of the allergens and breastfeeding is critical.

Best wishes, Pat


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
She has lots of e.coli bacteria (under beneficial bacteria) so that's good - has enough bifidobacerium but *NO* lactobacillus species *AT ALL*. What do I do about that? Shouldn't the 24 hour yogurt be giving her this too?????

I'm so confused.







:

Oh and no for the yeast. Well, actually borderline as a "Potential Pathogen" so I'm guessing that means we've gotten it under control somewhat.

I had a CDSA a few years back and it came back with all sorts of nasties. I'm in the throes of a brand new gut/genito-urinary crisis after being in something of a remission throughout my pregnancy and one year post partum (dd is almost 3 now) so I'm trying to get back into the swing of dietary eliminations and gut healing. It's no easy trip, I'll tell you, after thinking I was forever cured only to find out I'm back where to square one.
Anyhow, I used Trent Nichols for my CDSA and subsequent protocol. He's a gasteroenterologist who does phone consults, which is nice because you don't need to be a scientist to desipher your results. He co-authored an amazing book called Optimal Digestion and is a firm believer in Leaky Gut, food intolerances, etc. etc.

Annikate, IMO any pathogenic yeast regardless of amount is not right. Plus, your dd is lacking any lactobacillus which means that her ecosystem is not balanced. Without that balance all sorts of bacteria and yeast can become a problem. If this is correct, she's going to need more intervention than supplementary probiotics. I apologize for jumping in without knowing much background but I couldn't help but post since I can totally relate to feeling so overwhelmed by all of this. It's me who's going through this (not my dd, thank goodness) so I can only imagine how much harder it would be to see my sweet lovey suffer. Sending healing vibes your way. And if you or anyone else has further questions about Dr. Nichols or anything else - just say the word.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, I misplaced my copy of BTVC WEEKS ago and can't find it and cannot find this on the pecanbread site either:

What type of strain DOESN'T the 24 hour yogurt contain? I forget.

I'm wondering if this could be why dd has NO lactobacillus.?????


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

ericaz - thanks for the info on that doctor. I like anyone who will do phone consults.









I actually happened upon this healing process in January when researching dd2's issues (a whole other story). I started healing myself, working on dd2 who wasn't even eating solids yet and now I'm on to healing dd1.

Whew! It's tough sometimes. Just when I think I have one thing figured out, it's on to something (or some*body* else.) My whole family is an experiment. (Including dh.)


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Then they are not doing the right tests... what tests were they?

I'm highly suspect of any mainstream gi healing guts. Only if you can find one who is really top in their field. Bacterial overgrowth is being studied now in mainstream medicine but it's going to take a LONG time for it to trickle down. Did he test for SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth?

I *would not* do any sort of enema, etc. for testing while pg. That is ridiculous. Besides, what are they going to see and what are they going to tell you it's caused by. And what are they going to offer as treatments for lets say... inflammation? Steriods? No thank you.

Sorry I'm not being helpful with these thoughts, but I have less than any respect for the way medicine is practiced. Mainstream medicine generally doesn't cure disease, they only treat symptoms with drugs.

Oops, sorry I'm so distracted lately...

See link entitled Yeast/Bacteria at www.enzymestuff.com for info about taking them between meals and for what purpose.

Thank you Jane!! I am not even sure what tests he ran. I am going to request that the results be sent to me, then call again and have the doc explain what he was looking for with each. I am dismayed that he hasn't called at all yet. He did not test for SIBO, only really basic stuff such as CBC and parasites, etc. Some tests for celiac.

I talked to DH about this and he was adamantly supportive of me that I not do the sig or anything while pg. That is a great point that you made: what would the doc find on the sig that he would have to know right now while I'm pg, and what would he do about it that wouldn't also endanger the pg. This aspect actually just makes me even more disappointed and angry at the way I'm being treated by the doc and office.

While I was talking to DH I was choking back tears the entire time. Now that I've delved into the 'alternative' side of the gut issue, I feel so utterly overwhelmed. There is so much out there (here?







) that I've never heard of about which I have to learn, apply to myself, and figure out. I completely agree, Jane, that the focus of mainstream is just to put a bandaid over the symptoms(with plenty of hefty kickbacks in the doc's pocket); I want this HEALED doggone it! Or as close to that as I can get.

I believe I have intuited a help for myself already in that I have begun taking zinc supplements and that is making a significant difference. At least I hope so; I have learned to be cautious with attributing any temporary (because it is always only temporary...







) improvement to anything. I'll post about the zinc thing another time: I think it is an interesting story in addition to being one of the points about which I am not thrilled about this doc. I will be starting glutamine next week (as soon as it arrives). I tried some kefir this morning and I will be monitoring that effect. Meanwhile, I'll keep taking baby steps in learning about healing the gut. One thing DH said the other day was, "I hope this isn't contagious." I told him it has been going on long enough with me that if it was I would think he and DC would have caught it. But my other fear is that my DC will have a propensity to develop it later. I want to already have it all figured out for them by then!!

I figure one thing going to the gut doc has done is propelled me to more action. As long as I'm trying _something_ I feel like I'm making progress. And that is certainly better than just wasting my life away while the problem gets worse.


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## Emilie (Dec 23, 2003)

hello... i have huge poop issues with ds- who is 3..... since he was just a small baby....8 months or so...
he is on medication from medical doctor- myrcolax- which i am not a fan of- tho it does help him poop.
he is constipated all the time. all the time. his poop comes out in sticky stains- not hard, dr or black- just mushy sticky....
we have tried candida diet- and i must say i am not good at keeping with it. i desperately want to help my boy.... any advice orbook reccomedndatoins, websites much appreciated!
thanks


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Totally off topic.....

but has anyone heard from firefaery? Her lil' one was due this month


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I was wondering how firefaery's doing, too. I saw in another thread a while back that her family was moving, so maybe she's just really busy between that and the new baby.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I've been wondering about her too. I pm'd her weeks ago.

Firefaery, We Miss You!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Emilie, Have you looked at the sticky at the top of the h&h page? That should help.

LovinLiviLou, This is exactly what brought me here. My dd had very similar issues. I did not think that *I* needed healing so I came here learning in hopes of helping dd. (When I started she was about 4 months old and, of course, ebf.)

The more I learned, the more I realized that I needed to heal in order to help her.

Yes, you can do this while b'feeding and when your babe does start solids you can use enzymes directly. They are safe for you to take while b'feeding too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, I misplaced my copy of BTVC WEEKS ago and can't find it and cannot find this on the pecanbread site either:

What type of strain DOESN'T the 24 hour yogurt contain? I forget.

I'm wondering if this could be why dd has NO lactobacillus.?????









We are not supposed to use a yogurt starter that has bifidus in it.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Constipation has improved, but now if floats again.







What to do about that? It occured to me that I might have to start over with the intro again. Any one try that?

I do a colon massage every night in bed. I can see what is tender, full, etc and hopefully help move things along. Throughout all of this, I have had a tender spot in my lower righthand abdomin, where the lg intestine starts. This is where my acupuncturist though I had inflammation, at one time the size of my fist.







It is now not so tender to the touch, but this area is majorly "squishy" and actually makes noise when I massage it. You can hear liquid like stuff there. Working on it last night, I found that this liquidy area was quite big. It started getting me a bit concerned. Anyone have any thoughts on this?? JaneS, Galeforce, you guys around? And of course anyone else who might have a clue.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Throughout all of this, I have had a tender spot in my lower righthand abdomin, where the lg intestine starts. This is where my acupuncturist though I had inflammation, at one time the size of my fist.







It is now not so tender to the touch, but this area is majorly "squishy" and actually makes noise when I massage it. You can hear liquid like stuff there. Working on it last night, I found that this liquidy area was quite big. It started getting me a bit concerned. Anyone have any thoughts on this?? JaneS, Galeforce, you guys around? And of course anyone else who might have a clue.

Does it hurt when you press, or when you release the pressure? If it is "rebound" discomfort, it could be appendix pain. An abdominal ultrasound could discern any anatomical pockets, blockages or inflamation. Certainly, one can have bulging pockets of inflamation in the bowel, sort of an aneurysm-type balloning of the intestine. I don't think I would be pressing on it if that makes it hurt.







Any MD would do a complete diagnostic work up which could include invasive examination. If you could get an alternative guy to just order an ultrasound, the tech does the diagnostic test, a radiologist reads it and reports any abnormal findings. The alternative guys are not as apt to insist on further search and discovery invasion into your body so that they can CYA with a Full Diagnosis.

If the pain is severe, I'd consider more extensive work up. You also might watch to see if it is related to your menstrual cycles. Ovulation can cause a tender area in the abdomen, also endometriosis. MT had some issues with too much oxilate, or something related to raw green foods. Jane??

Pat


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sierratahoe,

Great post! I think this journey will take you to a new level of health for you and your family. I know it has mine, and I'm very grateful for it even though it was (and still is) long and frustrating. You will never look at food and nutrition the same way again. And truly to have that view, is to know one of the great secrets of being healthy and building healthy bodies for your children.

BTW bone broths naturally contain glutamine to rebuild gut lining and are a great source of minerals for pg. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/broth.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Constipation has improved, but now if floats again.







What to do about that? It occured to me that I might have to start over with the intro again. Any one try that?

I do a colon massage every night in bed. I can see what is tender, full, etc and hopefully help move things along. Throughout all of this, I have had a tender spot in my lower righthand abdomin, where the lg intestine starts. This is where my acupuncturist though I had inflammation, at one time the size of my fist.







It is now not so tender to the touch, but this area is majorly "squishy" and actually makes noise when I massage it. You can hear liquid like stuff there. Working on it last night, I found that this liquidy area was quite big. It started getting me a bit concerned. Anyone have any thoughts on this?? JaneS, Galeforce, you guys around? And of course anyone else who might have a clue.

Floaters are not digesting fats well enough I thought... ?

I would go get an ultrasound to make sure it's not an ovarian cyst.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
We are not supposed to use a yogurt starter that has bifidus in it.

This is not to you in particular, just thinking out loud...

I'm questioning this, but have little to go on right now. One thing that bothers me is that Elaine has said that she was not an expert in probiotics. Basically she was just following Dr. Haas' diet and just studied basically how it works.

However, our kids now have many more assaults on their gut flora than in Dr. Haas' day. Steriods, Antibiotics, Vaccines. Messing with their initial colonization especially as most births are medicalized. I'm currently of the mind that DS never had a good mix of gut flora to being with, so he needs many more strains than just the dairy strains in yogurt.

Just before I started stool testing and removing all supplements with DS, I put him on some different probiotics. Mt. Capra makes a goat's milk probiotic (which is now being hawked by Mercola under his own brand for more $.) And some small amounts of Primal Defense powder (ingredients are just probiotics and grasses.)

I have been putting Nature's Way Reuteri in his yogurt culture for a while now as well. But he is reacting a bit to the dairy in them I think.

But what I've found is that all of a sudden he's tolerating much more fruits. It took quite a while for me to induce diarrhea for his test even though he's been off of enzymes for a week . He's had perfect poops. I gave him rice and applesauce. Perfect. Raw strawberries finally did it though. Poor bunny, he was up 3x last night and is sooo tired. I probably should have just od'd him on magnesium in hindsight.









But anyways, the SCD is not working for DS because he obviously needs more strains of probiotics in order to heal. He was already on 1-2 gallons of 24h SCD legal goat yogurt/week for many months to no effect. My current theory is that he never had good gut colonization to begin with. He probably doesn't have the nascent good bacteria to regrow like an adult who goes on SCD to good effect.

What do others think? MT told me this a while ago, but I've had a hard time finding dairy free full spectrum probiotics and we were trying other things.

It's very distressing that there is STILL so little that is known about probiotics and gut flora.

My current fantasy is getting his bowels implanted with full spectrum of healthy gut flora from an Amish child raised on BM/raw milk and no drugs/vaxs. Called Human Probiotic Infusion: http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/









But for now, I cannot wait to get him done with testing and back on tons of full spectrum probiotics in addition to yogurt.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This site is very interesting for their descriptions of the bowel flora as an organ unto itself. Adding several links to Cheat Sheet.

http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/p...s/concept.html
http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/p...concept_2.html

Quote:

It is useful to compare the human faecal flora to a living organ because its major component is a complex mass of living cells. Furthermore, it interacts with the human body and the human body interacts with it.

Given that the human body is made up of approximately 1014 cells - while 1 x 1013 are body cells, about 9 x 1013 cells are bacteria contained within the bowel. Hence, purely on cell count *we are 10% human and 90% stool!*


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
My current fantasy is getting his bowels implanted with full spectrum of healthy gut flora from an Amish child raised on BM/raw milk and no drugs/vaxs. Called Human Probiotic Infusion:








http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/








Wow!

A little OT but speaking of the Amish:
VERY INTERESTING. Imagine what this will do to big pharma when it's all said & done?
http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDai...8-111605-3532r


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi Emilie,

First I would consider his history. What happened prior to the start of his problems ? Had his digestion been healthy until then ? Was he happy or fussy ? What happened right before ? Was that when he started eating solid foods ? Was there a vaccination around that time, or was he treated with antibiotics for some reason ? Was there some other change in his food and drink intake, like a change in breastfeeding habits or a switch of some kind ? Examining his history might give you some clues as to the cause of his problems and where to start.

Besides considering the history of his problem, I would recommend looking for a food allergy or intolerance. There is a very good book called Is This Your Child by a doctor named Doris Rapp. You could start with the top allergens or common problem foods - perhaps dairy, wheat, corn, or soy - and eliminate one of them *completely* from his diet for a couple of months and see what happens - if he still nurses, you will need to eliminate it from your diet too, then if you see no change, put it back, watch for a reaction, and then try eliminating another suspect food. Doing this, you may find certain foods that cause him problems. Besides common allergens, other foods to try this with are anything he eats a lot of, or wants to eat all of the time, as some people are somewhat "addicted" to the very foods that cause them a problem.

Another thing I would do, at the same time, is start him on a good probiotic. Healthy gut flora is essential for healthy digestion. Even one course of antibiotics can wipe out a child's gut flora and cause problems for a long time unless they are re-established with a probiotic (or cultured foods with live probiotics in them).

This is a place to start - food allergies/intolerances and probiotics. This is something you can work on while you read your way through the stickies, the thread, etc. that might start to help him now.

Linda B.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emilie*
hello... i have huge poop issues with ds- who is 3..... since he was just a small baby....8 months or so...
he is on medication from medical doctor- myrcolax- which i am not a fan of- tho it does help him poop.
he is constipated all the time. all the time. his poop comes out in sticky stains- not hard, dr or black- just mushy sticky....
we have tried candida diet- and i must say i am not good at keeping with it. i desperately want to help my boy.... any advice orbook reccomedndatoins, websites much appreciated!
thanks


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I would go get an ultrasound to make sure it's not an ovarian cyst.









I forgot about this. I had one of those!









Pat


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

emilie,
I forgot to add: dd1 has had constipation issues almost her whole life as well. (She actually goes from mush to severe constipation.) Our ped had her on a stool softener as well & I gave it to her for longer than I really should have until I finally got her completely SCD legal.

SCD, combined with the yogurt EVERY day has helped her. I'm still trying to figure out if she's got a lactose intolerance though. I think she does so I may have to switch to goat yogurt. (?)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Question re: lactose intolerance:

I am learning (through studying dd's stool analysis results) that people w/lactose intolerance do not produce lactobacillus.

This makes sense. DD has NO lactobacillus.

Does this mean she should not be having the 24hr. yogurt? Should I switch her to goat yogurt? OR . . should I get her some L. acidophilus too?

DD actually was HIGHLY sensitive to dairy in my diet when she was ebf.

She has not had cow's milk in forever but eats cheese EVERY day.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







Wow!

A little OT but speaking of the Amish:
VERY INTERESTING. Imagine what this will do to big pharma when it's all said & done?
http://www.upi.com/ConsumerHealthDai...8-111605-3532r

Yeah, wow is right! I just found out you can do the "implantation" yourself.
http://nexusofsteve.com/News/news_102204.html

It's not all that crazy, he's been published, just a couple refs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Full articles:
http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/toyingmotions.pdf
http://www.cdd.com.au/html/expertise/publications.html
http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/p...cs/119891.html

And one of those articles mention they are working on fecal flora capsules.

*Anyone want to hole up in a PA hotel for 5 days with me and DS and split an Amish child's poop ...?*









You see that DDDC must have just inspired me.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

maybe. . .


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Question re: lactose intolerance:

I am learning (through studying dd's stool analysis results) that people w/lactose intolerance do not produce lactobacillus.

This makes sense. DD has NO lactobacillus.

Does this mean she should not be having the 24hr. yogurt? Should I switch her to goat yogurt? OR . . should I get her some L. acidophilus too?

DD actually was HIGHLY sensitive to dairy in my diet when she was ebf.

She has not had cow's milk in forever but eats cheese EVERY day.

???
24 hr yogurt does not have lactose and does have acidophilus if you are using a yogurt culture with it included.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*









maybe. . .









We'll see how the next year goes.

I betcha AmyD would do it... !


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
24 hr yogurt does not have lactose
oh yeah. Well, that's confusing then. Where in the heck is all dd's lactobacillus going?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
We'll see how the next year goes.

I betcha AmyD would do it... !
Now that would be fun(ny).

Anybody here a filmmaker? We'd have to make a documentary out of that one!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Haven't a clue!! These kids are some tough nuts to crack.
How much yogurt is she eating?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Now that would be fun(ny).

Anybody here a filmmaker? We'd have to make a documentary out of that one!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

She eats at least 1/2 c. a day. Then again, she wasn't eating it EVERY day right before the test. I was supposed to have stopped it all together before testing but didn't want to put her through another bout of painful constipation (which is what would have happened.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

RE: Yeast

For those of you who are battling yeast, here's a very interesting link.
Read on the front page under "About Me" and at the bottom is a picture of what it can look like in the stool.

I'm posting this because I swear dd2 has had these before and I just thought they were undigested grapes. ( I cut them into tiny little pieces for her since she only has a few teeth.)

YIKES! Looks like we're dealing w/this form of yeast.









Here's the link:
http://www.sashasrecovery.com/about_me.html


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## Emilie (Dec 23, 2003)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.... I am off to the health foods store tomorrow for some proiotics,,, and I am just so confused....
I am sure ds hasencopresis....
I am so sad for him,.... I am addressing this is a whole new way ASAP.
Thanks so much...
Emilie


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Annikate- DD had the same result. I have decided that the result means nothing since it also said that she had 0 yeast and she obviously has a yeast problem. We have decided to not do the oat test but instead rely on the symptoms that all point to yeast for her and me.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
We'll see how the next year goes.

I betcha AmyD would do it... !









:







:







:







:

Oh man, do you know me or what









Me: Honey, I think I've figured out a way to heal our DS's gut
DH: the diet?
Me: Well yes, but more than that
DH: the probiotics right?
Me: yes, probiotics. But not via mouth, you see.
DH: intravenous probiotics? I've never heard of that.
Me: No dear, actually inter-anally. You see, JaneS and I are going to kidnap a lil' amish kid, you know there is a whole community of them around Lancaster, PA, and we are going to take his poop and put it into each of our children. I've read its a pretty messy procedure, but we'll rent a hotel so we don't have to get our stuff dirty and we'll rent some DVDs to keep them intertained and I'll make some of that cashew cake for us all to enjoy while the procedure is happening.......








:

But seriously, there is a community of people in my neighborhood. The Twelve Tribes. All healthy, organic, WAP people, yk? No vaxes and such. A good friend of mine was a member for some time and we talked about the autism connection. They have tribes all over the world and talk frequently and such and really know the general ongoings w/other members worldwide. She knows of 2 autistic cases. TWO.

So maybe I could recruit some of them for a fecal donation, I'm sure they would help me out, we are on friendly terms and all, and then Jane and I wouldn't have to do that whole kidnapping thing....


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

So DH just came home. I told him about the transplant.

DH: So you are going to stick s*** up your a**.
Me: No, we are going to stick s*** up DS's a**.
DH: And you wonder why I go out after work


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## bigknitwit (Sep 2, 2004)

Can I join the conversation here? I've been hesitant to join because the 26 pages of reading in this thread is a little daunting. Forgive me if this has allready been covered many times.

I am frustrated, angry, and worried all at the same time for my oldest ds. He is chronically constipated. We have been treating him with miralax for a few months, and yet I don't feel like the situation has gotten much better. I'm worried about taking him off the Miralax, as his ped-gastro doctor assures us he must stay on it or he will regress. His rectum is somewhat stretched, and so the doctor says that once it returns to normal shape, he will be ready to be taken off the laxative. He has bowel movements daily, but they are more indicative of a blockage/impaction (which is what he had to begin with). He has had 4 abdominal x-rays and while I'd like to get another one to see what's going on in there, I'm hesitant to do so. Too much x-raying is not good either...

Looking back, his constipation started around the time he was no longer getting milk while nursing (I was pregnant and we tandem nursed later). Before that we had no issues. I hate giving him the Miralax. I'm considering giving him a magnesium supplement instead, but too much magnesium has it's consequences too, doesn't it? I am truly at a loss as to what to do next, and it's literally keeping me awake at night (that's why I'm up right now).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
So DH just came home. I told him about the transplant.

DH: So you are going to stick s*** up your a**.
Me: No, we are going to stick s*** up DS's a**.
DH: And you wonder why I go out after work








We are all







here aren't we?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Kirsten,
Read a couple of pages back - - I posted about dd1's constipation issues. She's had it for almost her whole life and was on a stool softener for TOO LONG.

When I started her on the SCDiet and 24 hour yogurt things improved. BUT she can have NO "illegals". I mean not a trace or she'll regress.

Read the sticky at the top of the health and healing page that JaneS posted about healing the gut. That will help a lot.

It IS a lot of information to take in but the ladies here are great and will help you along.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

I posted a biggy last night and then mdc wouldnt put it through - ARGH.

I read the cheat sheet yesterday and now would like to find people to talk to who have actually done some of the things. MY problem is candida. 2.5 wks ago I miscarried and had a d&c







: which I now horribly regret b/c I apper to have a yeast overgrowth problem now. Never have hadone before. I certainly ate and craved a lot more carbs during those 2 wks, but I figured it was depression begging for sugar. Then I started noticing last week my abdomen pooching out quite a lot, sometimes with cramps sometimes not. I looked on the web and diagnosed myself with yeast (antibiotics for a week following the d&c, and high levels of estrogen/progesterone which apparently yeast like, and all those carbs). I did take some acidopholus last week, but not until I realized what this could mean did I crank that up several notches, and cut the carbs wayyy back. yesterday was my first day of no carbs at all and it was hell. I was (AM) hungry, cranky, and SAD about all this. I saw my accupuncturist friday and she prescribed an herb combination anti-fungal after seeing the yeast on my tongue. I have definitely had headaches and felt not myself, but then again, I have been seriously grieving so its just too hard to tell what is coming from what.

My questions are about the specifics of the anti-yeast regimine. What has your experience been with specific probiotics (Ive read that lactobacillus S.... [cant remember the wor except its the only one starting with S] is the best for taking the place of the yeast). Ive *just* been taking acidophillus which seems to be not nearly enough - is this true? My candida diet does not allow yogurt.... And haev any of you ised enzymes that you've noticed a difference with. I have never had food allergies (knock wood) or digestion problems or immunity problems, so otherwise ont think I need them, but I read that a certain kind help break the shell of the yeasts in the gut to then make the AF's work better. How do these enzymes even make it to the gut? How do they make it through the stomach and pancreatic acid? Do I believe this b/c I want to or has anyone had experience? That FAQ sheet also mentions that it takes about a month for every year you've had it to get rid of. Is this one of the things *JaneS* you dont believe? How long should I expect to do this so hard core if ive been infected for 2 weeks? I wish there were an answer like the diet, af's, probiotics, enzymes and diet hard core for 2 wks







Its really not funny. If we do want to ttc again, I dont want to with this. Your thoughts? And the last thing is the diet, I guess. I can suffer through this, but for how long? The Yeast connection (which Ive only read blurbs of on the web) says you can introduce fruit again in 2 weeks.

Anyway, I just really want personal help. How do I wade through all the *theories* and choose a protocal that I can have faith in? Why dont I just take lamisil with all the other stuff and knock this sh** out? Ugh. Im about ready to go to pennsylvania with you!

Thanks
jess


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Who's going to Pennsylvania?? Must've missed that post







I'm in PA!

Sorry to hear about your m/c, saskiasmom. I can relate...I had one in Feb/March (I didn't go in to have a D&C and I ended up having a missed abortion meaning that the entire embryo didn't come out all at once....it went on for an entire month!) and can relate to feeling depressed and crappy and frustrated. My symptoms also came back after the m/c (I suspect because I took pain killers which caused leaky gut which caused the yeast) but I have experience with conquering yeast/leaky gut in the past. It's a hard pill to swallow having to completely revamp your diet/lifestyle and it can be sooooooo overwhelming.

As for the beneficial yeast, are you talking about Saccharomyces Boulardii?

Eliminating sugars, carbs and any other yeast-promoting foods usually can last for months, if not years. I can't imagine anyone with a true yeast overgrowth simply eliminating them for a few weeks and feeling better for any stretch of time.
Do you have any other symptoms aside from the bloat and cramps?


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Not really, but its hard to tell. I actually allowed myself forbidden food on thursday and friday b/c I was so pissed and just didnt care, and didnt feel bad, I just get a big belly. Ive actually been more depressed in the past two days than in the last week. I felt like I was coming along well in mourning and moving on and then this, and it brings it all back again. "If only..". So the symptoms I have are too hard to separate from the loss, because when I read that yesterday about taking a month, suddenly I felt great. My tongue looks better, so Im using that as a guide too. I dont know. Thanks for responding. Ironically (is it irony?) my dh is an md, and he isnt too worried about this, he says to have faith in my immune system. I wish I could and go get a bran muffin for breakfast instead of eggs eggs and more eggs (hurl). So what have you done to heal it in the past?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
I posted a biggy last night and then mdc wouldnt put it through - ARGH.

I read the cheat sheet yesterday and now would like to find people to talk to who have actually done some of the things. MY problem is candida. 2.5 wks ago I miscarried and had a d&c







: which I now horribly regret b/c I apper to have a yeast overgrowth problem now. Never have hadone before. I certainly ate and craved a lot more carbs during those 2 wks, but I figured it was depression begging for sugar. Then I started noticing last week my abdomen pooching out quite a lot, sometimes with cramps sometimes not. I looked on the web and diagnosed myself with yeast (antibiotics for a week following the d&c, and high levels of estrogen/progesterone which apparently yeast like, and all those carbs). I did take some acidopholus last week, but not until I realized what this could mean did I crank that up several notches, and cut the carbs wayyy back. yesterday was my first day of no carbs at all and it was hell. I was (AM) hungry, cranky, and SAD about all this. I saw my accupuncturist friday and she prescribed an herb combination anti-fungal after seeing the yeast on my tongue. I have definitely had headaches and felt not myself, but then again, I have been seriously grieving so its just too hard to tell what is coming from what.

My questions are about the specifics of the anti-yeast regimine. What has your experience been with specific probiotics (Ive read that lactobacillus S.... [cant remember the wor except its the only one starting with S] is the best for taking the place of the yeast). Ive *just* been taking acidophillus which seems to be not nearly enough - is this true? My candida diet does not allow yogurt.... And haev any of you ised enzymes that you've noticed a difference with. I have never had food allergies (knock wood) or digestion problems or immunity problems, so otherwise ont think I need them, but I read that a certain kind help break the shell of the yeasts in the gut to then make the AF's work better. How do these enzymes even make it to the gut? How do they make it through the stomach and pancreatic acid? Do I believe this b/c I want to or has anyone had experience? That FAQ sheet also mentions that it takes about a month for every year you've had it to get rid of. Is this one of the things *JaneS* you dont believe? How long should I expect to do this so hard core if ive been infected for 2 weeks? I wish there were an answer like the diet, af's, probiotics, enzymes and diet hard core for 2 wks







Its really not funny. If we do want to ttc again, I dont want to with this. Your thoughts? And the last thing is the diet, I guess. I can suffer through this, but for how long? The Yeast connection (which Ive only read blurbs of on the web) says you can introduce fruit again in 2 weeks.

Anyway, I just really want personal help. How do I wade through all the *theories* and choose a protocal that I can have faith in? Why dont I just take lamisil with all the other stuff and knock this sh** out? Ugh. Im about ready to go to pennsylvania with you!

Thanks
jess

I would guess you probably had yeast issues before, but maybe they weren't apparent, and the antibiotics just made things bad enough for them to be apparent. That's just a gues, though, since it seems the vast majority of people have gut issues (not necessarily digestive problems, but things related to gut flora imbalance) these days.

Enzymes for in between meals for yeast killing contain cellulases (for breaking the outer yeast coating) and usually proteases, also (for mopping up the dead yeast and reducing die-off symptoms). Some common brands are Candex, Candidase, and Candizyme.

There is a yahoo group specifically for yeast with a specific protocol--it's called candidasupport. That the protocol I am doing right now. It has four steps--diet, supplements (vitamins basically), anti-fungals, and probiotics. It uses a natural probiotic food, cabbage rejuvelac (made with cabbage and water--really easy to make).

As far as how long you'll have to do an anti-yeast diet, you kind of have to go by personal experience. Get to a point where you feel kind of stabilized (ie not so awful and your symptoms are better or gone--BTW you sound like you're having die-off, which is a good sign). Then after a bit try adding something like a little fruit and see how you feel. If you feel terrible or yeast symptoms return, you aren't ready for that food.


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
So what have you done to heal it in the past?

God, what didn't I do?








What was key for me (after spending $$$ on massive amounts of supplements and practitioner appts) was to have a CDSA through Trent Nichols (I posted about him with a link a few posts up). From there I took prescribed antifungals (had been on long term Diflucan before but apparently my yeast was resistant to Diflucan) in conjunction with anti-fungal herbs. I had already been on a refined carb-free/dairy free VERY pure diet for months so I'm sure that gave the treatment a kick start.

While CDSAs are not always accurate, I think it's a good idea to have one done, especially if your main problem is digestive.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Erikaz - So why was that key? Because you realized you werent responding to diflucan? Did you use enzymes, probiotics, etc through this, and what is your opinion? Also, by *pure* diet, what do you mean? Before this happened, I *never* (i.e. strongly try to avoid) ate white flour, white sugar, white food in general. I dont drink juice, just water with lemon or emergen-c ... my *junk food* was chocolate, in the form of vegan, barley malt sweetened chocolate chips whatever. So I dont consider my diet horribly impure before, until those 2 wks where I just craved carbs (had some white bread, ben and jerry's fro-yo, etc). Anyway, now I am eating eggs, meat and nuts, and some veggies, although im finding them not appealing. Im not craving carbs, but im never sated, more importantly, im never full. I feel hungry all day because there just isent enought kinds of food I want to eat (one can only eat so much meat eggs and nuts before you just cant stand it anymore - I was forcing chicken last night because of hunger, but it was so unappealing). I drink lime in water by the buckets, as my accu also recommended this since yeast hates lime. And that's it. When Im hungry, I drink a lot of water. Its crazy. Im a thin woman to start, I literally dont know how long I can do this before i start to look emaciated. And as for die-off effects; its so hard to tell if I just feel like sheit b/c Im starving and have no blood sugar, or am I depressed b/c this brings back the loss so accutely, or is it die-off.

So once you had the consultation and figured this out, how long did it take for you to feel like you were cured? What does cured even mean? You dont react to trigger foods anymore? Can you say overwhelmed on all fronts!!!!!

Caedmyn - I understand that protease is *supposed* to help with killing the yeast and with die-off, but how do we know this is true? There are so many claims out there nd products to go with them ya know. I will definitely check out the yahoo group. Thanks

Thanks again ladies


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Annikate- DD had the same result. I have decided that the result means nothing since it also said that she had 0 yeast and she obviously has a yeast problem. We have decided to not do the oat test but instead rely on the symptoms that all point to yeast for her and me.
Actually the things I saw were in dd2's poopy.







And maybe they were just grapes.









Since I know so little about yeast I only suspected it in dd1 and her CDSA showed *borderline* yeast. (I suspect the yogurt has helped some.)

DD2 onthe other hand, may have a lot (?) I guess I'll know when her results come back.

Weird how your dd's did not show any.









I'd hate to think I'm wasting my $ this way yk!?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*
Erikaz - So why was that key? Because you realized you werent responding to diflucan? Did you use enzymes, probiotics, etc through this, and what is your opinion? Also, by *pure* diet, what do you mean? Before this happened, I *never* (i.e. strongly try to avoid) ate white flour, white sugar, white food in general. I dont drink juice, just water with lemon or emergen-c ... my *junk food* was chocolate, in the form of vegan, barley malt sweetened chocolate chips whatever. So I dont consider my diet horribly impure before, until those 2 wks where I just craved carbs (had some white bread, ben and jerry's fro-yo, etc). Anyway, now I am eating eggs, meat and nuts, and some veggies, although im finding them not appealing. Im not craving carbs, but im never sated, more importantly, im never full. I feel hungry all day because there just isent enought kinds of food I want to eat (one can only eat so much meat eggs and nuts before you just cant stand it anymore - I was forcing chicken last night because of hunger, but it was so unappealing). I drink lime in water by the buckets, as my accu also recommended this since yeast hates lime. And that's it. When Im hungry, I drink a lot of water. Its crazy. Im a thin woman to start, I literally dont know how long I can do this before i start to look emaciated. And as for die-off effects; its so hard to tell if I just feel like sheit b/c Im starving and have no blood sugar, or am I depressed b/c this brings back the loss so accutely, or is it die-off.

So once you had the consultation and figured this out, how long did it take for you to feel like you were cured? What does cured even mean? You dont react to trigger foods anymore? Can you say overwhelmed on all fronts!!!!!

I only have a second because I need to get out of the house but you sound so much like me...I can totally relate. I'm also on the thin side and having such a limited diet I was on the verge of looking/feeling too thin. I'm also ttc and I don't want to go off the deep end limiting too many food groups. It's way too easy to just stop eating much at all because you feel like you're reacting to everything.
I think the key for me was working with a gasteroenterologist who happens to know a heck of a lot about gut permeability/yeast overgrowth. He put me on the right antifungals for my specific yeast. Prior to that I was feeling much better than I had before any treatments but once I started this regimen it was 100x better.
As for my diet being *pure* - what I meant by that was I didn't eat any possible foods that might be yeast friendly and did not eat or drink anything processed. Occassionally I'd eat some sprouted grain tortillas or something like that but I tried to eat as simply as possible. Like you I was hungry all of the time and never felt sustained. It sucked. This is why I'm having a hard time sticking with it this time around.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom*

Caedmyn - I understand that protease is *supposed* to help with killing the yeast and with die-off, but how do we know this is true? There are so many claims out there nd products to go with them ya know. I will definitely check out the yahoo group. Thanks


I don't know if there have been studies or if it is just based on people's experiences with proteases. I know JaneS said that enzymes in between meals helped her and I believe she had some yeast issues.

Lots of fats (coconut oil, butter, olive oil) will help you with the low blood sugar/hunger issues.


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## bigknitwit (Sep 2, 2004)

I'm so overwhelmed with everything I've read so far about the gut. It's going to take a while before the whole thing begins to take shape in my mind, I suppose. Much like when I researched nutrition. That said, has anyone (here) ever been "cured" of their stomach ailments via conventional approaches? At what point do I decide ds' gastroentenologist isn't helping us solve the problem? The thing is that the laxative he's on may very well "fix" him, especially if his issues are mostly the result of a stretched rectum (therefore not "feeling" the need for a bowel movement until he's all stretched). I would like to possibly substitute magnesium for some of his laxative doses, since I think he could use it anyways.

So, at what point did you give up on your (conventional) gastroentenologist?


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Ok, so I tracked down the only (?) alternative health place in my area. I check out their website and I only see references to overall health, better sleep, weight loss. I called to find out if they work with IBS-type problems, healing the gut, that sort of thing, and the receptionist tells me, "Colonics." Huh? She says for me to go on the internet and look up that colonics would be all I need for that. They do colonics, they are good for everyone for everything. "It is just like washing your car, washing out your carburator (sp): they are good no matter if your car is new or old, broken or fine, they are good for you."

So tell me is it true (sarcasm)? All this discussion here on bacterial overgrowth, yeast, etc., can all be canned because we all just need to run out and have a colonic done? My gosh, it is so simple!!!

Back to reality: Ok, *now* what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't _need_ any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called _healing_ the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?


----------



## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigknitwit*
I'm so overwhelmed with everything I've read so far about the gut. It's going to take a while before the whole thing begins to take shape in my mind, I suppose.

So, at what point did you give up on your (conventional) gastroentenologist?

Hi and







!! I am brand new to this tribe, too, and feeling much the way you are, overwhelmed with all the info. May our journey to full enlightenment be quick (and painless LOL)!

To answer your second question, I believe I have already given up on mine, as well as all conventional gut doctoring; and this after only my first-ever visit only three weeks ago. I actually wish I had come here first before scheduling an appt with him. But, alas, what is done is done, and it was actually my frustration with him that gave me the final kick to click on here in addition to finding new avenues for making myself better that seem to be working.

Best of luck to you!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quick question,

Presently, I am taking 1T high vit CLO, and my boys are both taking 1/2t each. With it being summer, should we decrease our levels?

Thanks
Amy


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Ok, so I tracked down the only (?) alternative health place in my area. I check out their website and I only see references to overall health, better sleep, weight loss. I called to find out if they work with IBS-type problems, healing the gut, that sort of thing, and the receptionist tells me, "Colonics." Huh? She says for me to go on the internet and look up that colonics would be all I need for that. They do colonics, they are good for everyone for everything. "It is just like washing your car, washing out your carburator (sp): they are good no matter if your car is new or old, broken or fine, they are good for you."

So tell me is it true (sarcasm)? All this discussion here on bacterial overgrowth, yeast, etc., can all be canned because we all just need to run out and have a colonic done? My gosh, it is so simple!!!

Back to reality: Ok, *now* what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't _need_ any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called _healing_ the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?

Are you pregnant (can't remember)? Colonics are NOT recommended during pregnancy.

Honestly, IMO unless you find a doctor who really really knows what they are doing, you are better off trying to fix things yourself. Yes, it will be way more time consuming, confusing, overwhelming, etc (I've been there!). But you will learn a ton (I know I have) and you can heal yourself (I'm still working on that part of it, although my DD has shown some definite improvements).

Hopefully JaneS will post in answer to your question--I believe she had IBS or some sort of major gut problem and is now cured with no problem foods. There is a thread somewhere in this forum called "SCD Success Stories"...if you search for it, I believe her story is on there.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Actually, I just got a referral to see a GI specialist. I am curious to hear what he has to say, although it better not be IBS, as I don't think that is what I have. I would like to know what is my tender/squishy spot. I am pretty certain it is not an ovarian cyst. I had an ultrasound of all my feminine parts and they all checked out fine.

I have started feeling icky after eating, kind of nausous. What does that mean?

This would not be the first time that I get a Western diagnosis (from an allopathic doc) and then treat it alternatively. But who knows, maybe the GI doc would actually be helpful, although I am really not holding my breath.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I have started feeling icky after eating, kind of nausous. What does that mean?
Could mean gallbladder troubles.








Hope you find some answers soon.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

What do you all think of this product:
http://worldnutrition.info/vitalzym_enzyme.html

My new homeopathic dentist recommended it for dd.

I haven't read it over yet & one thing we did not discuss was enzymes (one of the ONLY things we didn't discuss -







) so it may just be another broad spectrum product.

He also recommended this for me to take while b'feeding dd:
http://www.luminahealth.com/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Serrapeptase - read about this at enzymestuff.com. Was this the one that had a controversy?

Otherwise it looks like a pretty normal digestive enzyme mix. The rutin and amla are natural bioflavoniod and vit. C that you could get elsewhere if this product is too expensive.

Is the product Cellfood? An oxygen thing? Reading the ingredients and processes are giving me a headache. I don't know what it's supposed to do.

Do a search at www.Onibasu.com. Andy Cutler has mentioned and the WAPF Chapter Leaders group too.


----------



## Cullens_Girl (Feb 6, 2005)

Hi everyone - new to the thread...and IBS. I think I have just about every symptom - but I know that it's "rule-out" thing... I'm just wondering how long it will take them to *rule-out* everything... and also other than the IBS dietary changes I've read about online - do you have any tips?

Subbing to the thread although tomorrow is 8/1 so there will probably be a new one anyway.







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I see my name and plans for sticking poop somewhere where the sun don't shine is being taken in vain... but I'm exhausted from hell week w/ DS tonight. Will be back ...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Do a search at www.Onibasu.com. Andy Cutler has mentioned and the WAPF Chapter Leaders group too.
Yep, I knew I had seen this somewhere before. I'm still studying it.

Get some rest. I should too as dd was up EVERY hour and 1/2 last night (after making BIG BIG progress too.)


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
Ok, so I tracked down the only (?) alternative health place in my area. I check out their website and I only see references to overall health, better sleep, weight loss. I called to find out if they work with IBS-type problems, healing the gut, that sort of thing, and the receptionist tells me, "Colonics." Huh? She says for me to go on the internet and look up that colonics would be all I need for that. They do colonics, they are good for everyone for everything. "It is just like washing your car, washing out your carburator (sp): they are good no matter if your car is new or old, broken or fine, they are good for you."

So tell me is it true (sarcasm)? All this discussion here on bacterial overgrowth, yeast, etc., can all be canned because we all just need to run out and have a colonic done? My gosh, it is so simple!!!

Back to reality: Ok, *now* what do I do?? What kind of a doc should I be looking for? I simply cannot afford to have an appointment with every gut doc in town hoping against hope for one who has his/her head out of his/her arse and has heard of leaky gut or anything else slightly alternative. Nor can I afford to visit with every 'naturopathic' nutcase who just wants to rinse me out or give me a rubdown or stick needles in me (no offense to any who might find acupuncture helpful for their gut; I just doubt a session or two is going to heal me, nor is a massage or two). Should I aim for calling every D.O. in town and ask if they have experience with healing guts? Or just scrap getting help and focus on helping myself? What about tests? Could it be that I possibly actually don't _need_ any testing and just need to experiment with what works for me?

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called _healing_ the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?

You crack me up.








What I would do if I were you is to find someone who can order and translate a CDSA (comprehensive diagnostic stool analysis). When I did mine a bunch of years ago Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab were the gold standard but their might be a better lab now. Usually the practitioners who can get one for you are progressive MDs/DOs, chiropractors, and acupunturists.
As for colonics - I had one when I was in the midst of my first crisis with all of this stuff and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. It was so ungodly uncomfortable because I was so impacted with so much crap (literally) that it basically backfired - it just hurt like a mother and she was unable to get anything out. I was left completely embarrassed and frustrated. The woman who did the colonic came highly recommended - and she was so comforting. She basically said I had a huge problem and that colonics were too invasive for me. So, I went home and began doing fasts and enemas. That REALLY worked. The enemas RULED. I know people fear them but they are so beneficial. Of course...not to be done if you are pregnant!!
As for eating trigger foods - you should one day be able to eat them in small amounts every blue moon. There might be foods that you can never eat again. I should know...I went gangbusters when my symptoms went away throughout my pregnany and post partum and now I'm paying the price.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm all reading about that cellfood and thinking about incorporating it into my cancer plan. I can't really find any info on it at that website you mentioned, Jane. Any thoughts?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*

Now for the million dollar question: I know this is called _healing_ the gut, but, will there ever be a day when I don't have to fear certain foods? Will there ever be a day I can eat trigger foods without paying the price? Is it truly possible to make this all better and move beyond it, looking back at the experience and laughing nervously?

Yup, this is how I feel too. Except that not only is it me having reactions to certain foods/suppliments it is my baby who is getting everything through my breastmilk. I don't feel like anything is a 'safe' food right now. It makes me want to give up. I know this sounds horrible but if I gave DS formula at least he would be having the same thing every meal.









I forwarded my Mom some articles about the negatives of eating soy. Her response today was, "I gave you soy milk and formula, maybe that is why you were so small at a year old."


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is not to you in particular, just thinking out loud...

I'm questioning this, but have little to go on right now. One thing that bothers me is that Elaine has said that she was not an expert in probiotics. Basically she was just following Dr. Haas' diet and just studied basically how it works.

However, our kids now have many more assaults on their gut flora than in Dr. Haas' day. Steriods, Antibiotics, Vaccines. Messing with their initial colonization especially as most births are medicalized. I'm currently of the mind that DS never had a good mix of gut flora to being with, so he needs many more strains than just the dairy strains in yogurt.

Just before I started stool testing and removing all supplements with DS, I put him on some different probiotics. Mt. Capra makes a goat's milk probiotic (which is now being hawked by Mercola under his own brand for more $.) And some small amounts of Primal Defense powder (ingredients are just probiotics and grasses.)

I have been putting Nature's Way Reuteri in his yogurt culture for a while now as well. But he is reacting a bit to the dairy in them I think.

But what I've found is that all of a sudden he's tolerating much more fruits. It took quite a while for me to induce diarrhea for his test even though he's been off of enzymes for a week . He's had perfect poops. I gave him rice and applesauce. Perfect. Raw strawberries finally did it though. Poor bunny, he was up 3x last night and is sooo tired. I probably should have just od'd him on magnesium in hindsight.









But anyways, the SCD is not working for DS because he obviously needs more strains of probiotics in order to heal. He was already on 1-2 gallons of 24h SCD legal goat yogurt/week for many months to no effect. My current theory is that he never had good gut colonization to begin with. He probably doesn't have the nascent good bacteria to regrow like an adult who goes on SCD to good effect.

What do others think? MT told me this a while ago, but I've had a hard time finding dairy free full spectrum probiotics and we were trying other things.

It's very distressing that there is STILL so little that is known about probiotics and gut flora.

My current fantasy is getting his bowels implanted with full spectrum of healthy gut flora from an Amish child raised on BM/raw milk and no drugs/vaxs. Called Human Probiotic Infusion: http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/









But for now, I cannot wait to get him done with testing and back on tons of full spectrum probiotics in addition to yogurt.

There are many things you mention here that are relevant for DS and me.
*Ds and I had antibiotics at his birth, so I know that he didn't start out having the best gut flora. What is the best way to get a broad spectrum of flora in there, without kidnapping an Amish child?







I am eating SCD 24 hr yogurt but am not currently giving him anything.

*I know we are fighting yeast, but I feel like whenever I try to step up yeast fighting measures (tried Candex, too harsh made eczema flair, I think) now am starting with V-gest (.5 capsule with meals) his eczema flairs again. I cannot tell what the eczema flairup is from. I honestly do not think I have the will power to start SCD all over and stay on the intro (for weeks?) and go to the bare minimum (not even any suppliments) I am not convinced that his eczema is all diet based anyway.

*does fermenting foods bring about different strains of bacteria than the 24 hr yogurt has to offer?

*If I heal my gut (who knows how long that will take) will he get good bacteria from my breastmilk? Will it be enough to counteract the poor start?

* How did you go about healing your DS's eczema?

I feel very discouraged, I have been on SCD for about 6 weeks and although I feel like my yeast is getting a little better on the diet DS's eczema keeps flaring up. I need more yogurt ( I currently have a few tablespoons a day) and probiotics to help with the yeast as well as some yeast fighters but they all seem to bother DS (eczema flare ups)

Thanks JaneS for all of your wisdom.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

After my daughter turned a year old, she started drinking cow's milk. She had been eating yogurt and cheese, and cottage cheese for a while. She started getting painful, burning diaper rashes. I was told it could be diet related. I have allergies, just none to food. Abigail hasn't had any milk in about two or more weeks, she just one day refused to drink it, but she's continued to get diaper rashes on and off, about once to twice a week. then I realized that was about how often I was feeding her 4 oz of Activia yogurt. Could she be allergic to the yogurt? ACtivia has 17 grams of sugar in it, could the problem be the sugar?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
oh yeah. Well, that's confusing then. Where in the heck is all dd's lactobacillus going?

I was also wondering why the yogurt is not effective for some people.
I think the lactobacilli like a slightly lower temp than the other two guys so you really have to be careful not to overheat it. Maybe you're killing them by the heat. But if not, then I don't know...
sometimes I wonder why my yogurt is not doing anything except for being a healthy treat. I wish I could do the kefir.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Abi's Mom*
After my daughter turned a year old, she started drinking cow's milk. She had been eating yogurt and cheese, and cottage cheese for a while. She started getting painful, burning diaper rashes. I was told it could be diet related. I have allergies, just none to food. Abigail hasn't had any milk in about two or more weeks, she just one day refused to drink it, but she's continued to get diaper rashes on and off, about once to twice a week. then I realized that was about how often I was feeding her 4 oz of Activia yogurt. Could she be allergic to the yogurt? ACtivia has 17 grams of sugar in it, could the problem be the sugar?

Oh yes. Commercial yogurt is loaded with lactose and other sugars, not to mention the artificial flavors and colors. And who knows if the bacteria are really alive in it.
What kind of diaper rash? Raised spots could mean yeast. Also red ring around the anus.
If it's just raw and red it could be juice or too much fruit. These make the stool acidic, and they also feed the yeast. Yeast likes all kinds of sugar.

Home-made 24-hr. yogurt not only gets rid of the lactose, the bacteria also pre-digest the milk proteins that are hard to digest for little ones.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Caedmyn, how is your candida protocol working for you? Are you getting better or still having die-off....

Is anybody getting better and healed besides Jane?

Well I'm about to give up.

Also, our budget is SO tight, that I won't be able to keep buying ANY supplements. We can't afford to have a normal diet. 40 dollars a week for groceries won't even get enough meat and eggs to feed 4 of us.

So I have to stop the SCD-candida-NT. it's not helping anyway. I guess I'll just have to live with it.

Sorry for complaining.... I guess I'm just having a bad morning.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBG
I was also wondering why the yogurt is not effective for some people.
I think the lactobacilli like a slightly lower temp than the other two guys so you really have to be careful not to overheat it. Maybe you're killing them by the heat. But if not, then I don't know...
sometimes I wonder why my yogurt is not doing anything except for being a healthy treat. I wish I could do the kefir.








No - my temp's not too high so







I don't know. And I think kefir is









BUT,

Quote:

Is anybody getting better and healed besides Jane?
Well, I'm reluctant to use the that term but yes, this diet has been amazing for me. I've been eating *illegals* for a while now (sometimes w/o enzymes.) I never overdo it though & still can't do grains. - (even soaked.)

ONe thing though that I find interesting is, the people who talk of yeast don't seem to be having the same results. I was not battling yeast. I often wonder if the SCD just doesn't work for those issues.

ETA:







EBG I know this process has probably tripled our grocery/supplement spending.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Caedmyn, how is your candida protocol working for you? Are you getting better or still having die-off....

Is anybody getting better and healed besides Jane?

Well I'm about to give up.

Also, our budget is SO tight, that I won't be able to keep buying ANY supplements. We can't afford to have a normal diet. 40 dollars a week for groceries won't even get enough meat and eggs to feed 4 of us.

So I have to stop the SCD-candida-NT. it's not helping anyway. I guess I'll just have to live with it.

Sorry for complaining.... I guess I'm just having a bad morning.










I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. Hopefully your financial situation will improve soon.

Have you tried beet kvass? There was an excerpt in "Eat Fat Lose Fat" about someone with candida who didn't get any better with diet, etc, until she tried beet kvass. At least it would be cheap...

I'm not having much die-off at all. I feel like this diet is going to work for us, but I haven't actually seen improvements yet. I've decided to stick with the diet without cheating until Labor Day--it's allowed to cheat once a week on this diet, but I sort of went overboard with the cheating and binged. Last time I cheated we went out to eat for DH's BD and besides my meal I had about 8 cornbread muffins, 3 big bowls of ice cream, and a giant chocolate cookie







If neither DD nor I are improving by Labor Day I'm going back to eating "normal" NT foods.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*

*I know we are fighting yeast, but I feel like whenever I try to step up yeast fighting measures (tried Candex, too harsh made eczema flair, I think) now am starting with V-gest (.5 capsule with meals) his eczema flairs again. I cannot tell what the eczema flairup is from. I honestly do not think I have the will power to start SCD all over and stay on the intro (for weeks?) and go to the bare minimum (not even any suppliments) I am not convinced that his eczema is all diet based anyway.


perhaps it flairs up because you ARE dealing with the yeast. that is, as they die off, their toxins leak into your lymph system and into your milk. could you stick with it long enough to get over the die off?

have you tried evening primrose oil supplements to help with your dc's eczema?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*

ONe thing though that I find interesting is, the people who talk of yeast don't seem to be having the same results. I was not battling yeast. I often wonder if the SCD just doesn't work for those issues.


I've been thinking that for a while now, too. Although I'm pretty certain firefaery had yeast issues, and it did help her, but she also did a ton of herbs and other supplements besides the diet, so maybe it was those more than the diet for her.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

CHIROPRACTORS--anyone besides Pattyla tried chiropractic for their baby's sleep issues? DD woke up about 10 times last night. I have no idea why she is waking up so often. I've got to do something to get her sleeping better.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Yup, chiropractors, craniosacral therapist, allergist, LOTS of other things.
nak so I'll post more later.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum*
*does fermenting foods bring about different strains of bacteria than the 24 hr yogurt has to offer?

sauerkraut is yummy and (the raw kind my mom makes) is loaded with good microbes.

Quote:

*If I heal my gut (who knows how long that will take) will he get good bacteria from my breastmilk? Will it be enough to counteract the poor start?
my intuition says that he will but you might intervene and boost his system in the meantime. why not start giving him an infant probiotic? we use maxi babydophilus (only occasionally though







: ). i did discover that the easiest way to get it into ds was kinda gross. i sprinkle some on his butt and privates during a diaper change and, just like a guy, he grabs himself. only not like a big guy, he then shoves his probiotic-coated fingers into his mouth. yuck.

Quote:

* How did you go about healing your DS's eczema?
caveat: my ds's eczema was very mild. in our case, eliminating all dairy for about 2-3 months showed the biggest improvement. then i started adding supplements (omega 3-6-9, epo, probiotics). then i started with homemade kefir and raw fermented foods (my mom's sauerkraut, for starters).

i think our problem is also somewhat yeast based. when i get lazy and increase my sugar intake, i get a mild yeast flare-up. i also notice a difference in ds's butt by the end of a week at daycare. i think he is sensitive to sugar and to wheat as well. i'm in a quandary there because the center is a nut-free center so i have limited options for packaged snack items (any suggestions would be helpful!).

we were at my mom's house last week and i decided to experiment. i had 2 small scoops of organic vanilla ice cream - and then an hour later had post-nasal drip with even more the next morning, accompanied with sneezing. no more uncultured pasteurized dairy for me. i'm letting my system clear before i try raw milk cheese.

annikate: to make kefir more palatable, adding a bit of honey and vanilla extract to room temperature kefir makes it yummy (though i'm not sure if those are scd legal). xenabyte has a thread that has recently become more active "got kefir?" that has other smoothie recipes.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I posted the new thread









http://www.mothering.com/discussions...72#post5658272

I've also got a couple questions that I'm waiting for an answer to, so I'm going to repost them. I'd encourage everyone to do the same.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just want to say to the newbies that I will be copying a lot of posts over to the August thread and adding my 2 cents...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoops... meant that to go to August's thread.


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