# Spinoff from Non Negotiable: Dinnertime



## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Respectfully, I ask this: Why is it non-negotiable for your child to sit at the dinner table and eat with the family and not get up? Is this because you feel its the only time the family is all together? What other reasons might a mom have for this?

(Note: The first word I typed there reminded me of an old disco song and I started singing..."Respectfully, I say to thee..." LOL)

edited: cuz I wrote "you" instead of "thee."


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## Drewsmom (Jan 12, 2002)

I wasn't involved with the other thread so I shouldn't be budding in but the title caught my attention. We have two boys and I never pressed the issue to sit at the table mainly b/c I have *such* a strong willed oldest son that by the end of the day came I wasn't willing to try and make up another game or force something...also my dh was working all the time and it was just us anyway.

However, I regret not trying b/c now that he's 4 1/2 almost 5 it is very difficult (and now that dh _can_ and does have dinners with us) to get him to sit down. I guess he does for a short time and when he's finished then he's off but I do think that it's OK to teach some manners like saying, "May I please be excused?"...which I am trying to implement now.

I don't think anything needs to be hardcore do or die..I also never wanted to create any eating issues which I don't think I did, he's a very diverse eater and doesn't overeat.

Just my thoughts.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Wow Hi Karaboo!! I haven't seen you in so long.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

First, let's talk about what non-negotiable means.

For our family it means that me and/or dh has made a decsion that something is the right thing for our family. We are not going to negotiate something different. We thus have an expectation as to this "rule" that it will be followed.

We do not however punish if this rule is not followed. No consequences are used at all unless they are necessary to protect the child or the person or property of another. (Which would of course never be the case as to sitting down for dinner)

So as for sitting down for dinner, dh and I have decided that we want this every night. We feel that the family table builds bonds and is very, very helpful with respect to healthy eating habits.

We have found this to be true. We find our family dinner time one of joy.

So that is the rule: You must sit down at the table til all are finished (of course their are exceptions for illness or something that might take priority such as a ton of homework to do).

If you do not do this, you have not met our expectaions. You get a "next time we want you to sit at the table with us. That is what we do in our family." and that is it.

I can count on one hand the times I have had to say this to one of my dd's.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

(Hi, Heartmama!!!







)

Thanks for the replies, mamas.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

In our family we sit down and the table and eat together, but if one child finishes first they may ask to be excused and more likely than not it's not a problem. What drives me crazy is when they then want to hang around at the table but not in their seat and bug the rest of the family. That's just annoying. If they've been excused they need to get away from the table.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Just a question: do YOU ask to be excused when you are done?

I've been tossing around the idea of sitting down to a family meal. We've never bothered for several, well-thought out reasons. But we always said when the kids were old enough to handle it without too much discipline on our part that we would. DS is still too young (and doesn't fit in a high chair anymore) so there's the issue of him running around and distracting DD. But anyways, I digress....we've just been brainstorming about ideas to implement this (btw, I also don't believe that a 4 or 5 year old is going to have a hard time with it just because it wasn't done earlier).

itSo I ask that question not sarcastically, but seriously. Why do kids have to ask to be excused? HOw long is reasonable to expcet them to sit?


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Well, yes, if I am eating with someone else (anyone else, usually, even just lunch with a co-worker) I either pace myself so no one finishes first or wait and chat politely until they are done. Only very rarely would I excuse myself before they are done. Even with my DH we wait for each other to finish; if one of us did need to leave the table we'd excuse ourselves, not just walk off.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

We all sit at the table together every night. We think this is important for our family and a good way to stay connected as the kids get older and life gets busier. It really has been a non issue for us. They have always sat at the table with us. Even as babies, they sit in the high chair and eat Cheerios or whatever while we eat, or sit on my lap. It is an expectation, but I don't ever recall having to "enforce" it in any way. I set the table and put out the food. I call everyone to dinner and they come and sit without complaint. I honestly can't remember a time when they haven't done it. They tell us about their day and anything funny/sad/interesting that happened; whatever they want to talk about. Since the older two are in school every day, we like this time to hear about their day. Sometimes we talk about the weekend and what we might like to do. It's an enjoyable, relaxed family time. I really do think the reason it isn't an issue is that we've always done it.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

Frankly Piglet, that is a total non issue. By the time I'm finished getting everything that I've forgotten to put on the table, and refilled everyone's drinks over and over, then gone back to the fridge for the ketchup that never got brought to the table, everyone else is finished eating almost before I've begun.









May I be excused is just verbage. It's a polite way to leave the table. Rarely do I ever say no. The exception being if one child is finished eating and the other has been dawdling and just wants to go play. I then remind them that this is dinner and if they choose not to eat now, I will save their plate and they can have it later rather than having a snack. I'm not going to force them to sit at the table staring at their fork. If for some reason I do finish before them I do say "excuse me" as I get up and start clearing the unneeded things from the table. Again, just polite verbage. I don't think that there's anything wrong with showing polite respect with manners. I also don't see any problem with that going both ways, thus the reason I excuse myself.


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

There is an abundance of studies/research that supports the benefits of family meal times, a biggie for me was that teens who regulalry share meals with their families are 50% less likely to do drugs but numerous other studies have showed that kids who sit down to meals with their families tend to eat better nutritionally, and to eat more diverse diets. Of course there are a zillion exceptions to the results of these studies, but in my opinion, there is plenty of known benefits to having family meals together, there is no proven detriment that I am aware of, or believe the validity of.

In our family, sitting to dinner every day that we are all together is something that we place great value on. It's not a time of anger or stress of lectures or anything, it's a time when we laugh, eat food, talk, even sing songs. It's not been much of an issue so far, though getting a plate/bowl of dessert does hinge on sticking around through dinner so there's some incentive. There's been the very rare time that Emma doesn't want to stay at the table, and we've let her go, but its not approved of, and it's now the way our family does things.

Similarly to maya we don't punish for it or force it, but there is a strong expectation of it, we have a typical routine every night, happy dinners together are followed by rough housing and wrestling play sessions with daddy while I clean up, then bedtime preps begin. For us its a nice thing, it's not negotiable, but that doesn't make it some terrible thing that we all dread or anything.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

We sit down as a family for meals. However, it is not "non-negotiable". Dd does not have to sit if she does not want to. it has never been an issue thus far. Dd likes our meal times, enjoys eating and conversing. Occasionally she finishes before we do and wants down. That is fine. I think forcing it defeats the purpose.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to know WHY parents enforced this rule. I always imagined it was a rule for busy families. A rule parents enforced because they wanted everyone to slow down and be together and mealtime just suited that purpose. I wanted to know if what I imagined was true and what other reasons families might have for the rule.

My husband is semi-retired. We homeschool. So the three of us are around each other quite a bit. We talk, hang out, interact all day long. Dinnertime is a time to eat at our home. (Of course, conversation is welcome and encouraged. I like to chat and eat LOL) Actually, my daughter, 7, eats when she's hungry and isn't accustomed to the three-meals-a-day routine. My husband and I are, therefore I cook dinner regularly for us.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Soundhunter I have never seen evidence that the act of putting food in our mouths at the same benefits kids. The act of spending daily time together seems to be what matters.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

Just because it is. Family dinner time is important to us and we will pass that on to our kids by incorporating into our daily routine just like our parents did with us, quite succesfully. Additionally, for our ds who isn't much of an eater, if we didn't require him to sit with us at meal time, he'd rarely eat. He isn't required to eat his dinner but he is required to join us, and as a result he typically ends up eating.

On weekends we often have a meal in the family room while watching a movie, do picnics in the nice weather (in the yard or away from home) eat out a lot, etc. Point being we try to make family dinners enjoyable for everyone.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I grew up sitting down to dinner with my family in the evenings. We talked about the day, the news, our plans... It was good family time. That said, we don't sit down every night and have dinner as a family, but it is something that I am trying to make happen more often.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

KaraBoo, your reasons are similar to ours. DH has been working from home, mostly part-time, for a couple of years now and so we are around each other all the time, too. Also, DD likes to graze and would probably not eat as much if she had to sit at the table to eat, but prefers to eat while she plays. Also, DH and I found it stressful to try feeding her and us at the same time, we ended up never eating in peace. We found life much easier when we just sat in the living room and ate while DD played around us. There was also quite a time when we didn't even have a dining table (we moved around alot, and sometimes in temporary abodes where we only got what furniture was essential).

Anyways, I suspect it won't be a big deal as it won't be something we "enforce" either. Just a nice idea to share (we're expecting DH to be working out of the home soon). Also, I am hoping that it will help DD eat more of a variety of foods - I've heard that if things are 'laid out there' she will eventually try them.

Anyways, thanks for the great replies.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:

We sit down as a family for meals. However, it is not "non-negotiable". Dd does not have to sit if she does not want to. it has never been an issue thus far. Dd likes our meal times, enjoys eating and conversing. Occasionally she finishes before we do and wants down. That is fine. I think forcing it defeats the purpose.
This is what we do too. Although once in a blue moon dd1 won't want to sit with us and will want to go play..so we just let her. By the next night, she is back to eating with us.

Although an interesting spin-off is what do you do if you are eating dinner with another family (at their house) and they make their same-age child sit at the dinner table while you let your child get up? We had this happen. It was kinda an awkard situation, since we didn't feel we should enforce rules we don't believe in, but yet we were in their house and I can certainly sympathize with the problem of other parents letting their kids do things I don't allow my child to do, and how difficult that is.


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## quidditchmom (Jun 18, 2005)

We sit down together as a family every night and have for as long as I can remember. I've never considered it as non negotiable, it's just the way things are. I've never had to coerce my kids to join us. In fact the only one I've had to use force with is my dh









We're together an awful lot of the time but it seems like we're always going. When we're home our house is a whirlwind of activitiy and dinner time is a time for us to just sit and relax and spend some quiet time together. When my kids were babies they just sat (usually slept







) in my lap while we sat and ate. When they were old enough, they joined us. Now, I put dinner on the table (usually with their help) and everyone just comes and sits down. My kids sit for 30 to 60 minutes for the most part. Every now and then they'll jump up for a hug or get something or if they get really into telling a story. If they get too distracted I'll ask if they're done because they don't like to eat dinner on their own and if they are, that's fine. They're welcome to sit some more and be good company or find something else to do - whatever suits them. They almost always sit with us though.

What keeps them there? Maybe it's anticipation of desert. I know some families don't do desert but we do it every night. Sometimes it's a raw apple pie (nuts, dates, apples, honey and spices), italian ice (frozen fruit juice), or 'ice cream' (usually just some frozen fruit that's gone through the food processor). Other times it's some other brilliant idea I've come up with that's yummy and healthy. Since they love junk food and I'd rather they eat nothing but vegetables all day







this is our way of comprimise.

But anyway, they're free to come and go as they please, and they can eat dinner whenever they feel like it, but they choose to sit with us and eat.

Diana


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia*
This is what we do too. Although once in a blue moon dd1 won't want to sit with us and will want to go play..so we just let her. By the next night, she is back to eating with us.

Although an interesting spin-off is what do you do if you are eating dinner with another family (at their house) and they make their same-age child sit at the dinner table while you let your child get up? We had this happen. It was kinda an awkard situation, since we didn't feel we should enforce rules we don't believe in, but yet we were in their house and I can certainly sympathize with the problem of other parents letting their kids do things I don't allow my child to do, and how difficult that is.


It can be really difficult to eat with other families with different rules. I've never really dealt with this exact situation, but I don't think I'd make my dds sit. I've eaten with families that make kids, "clean your plate". This really irritates me. I want my kids to stop eating when they aren't hungry anymore, not feel they must eat everything on their plates. I don't make my dds clean their plates when we are with these people. I just won't do it. I think it is wrong. IMO, it isn't right to force mine to eat, just because others force theirs. This is also an issue from my own childhood. We were told to clean our plates.







:


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

DS (5) and i were at a friend's house, for a couple days, just after Yule. they have different eating styles than we do. they do small bits of food at a time (courses) but we eat all ours on the same plate. my DS was totally not used to this arrangement. the kids sat at their own table. they were served first a bluefish (like tunafish) thingy on a big cracker. my DS didn't finish his, but almost. my friend was trying to force him to eat the whole thing before she gave him any more food, till he was nearly crying!

later, i told him that mostly if we are in other people's houses, we try to follow their rules, but in this case if he wanted to eat the way we always do, he had the choice of sitting separate from her girls and sitting with me. i was trying to make it fair for my DS, while not upsetting the routine of their kids' dinners. he chose to sit separate from them for the rest of the time he was there, and their kids had no problem with our explanation when they asked why he wasn't sitting with them.

that said, i usually let him down from the table when he is done, but i prefer the manners of "may i please be excused" and take his own plate up. i will not excuse him if he scarfs down a couple bites only to rush back to his video game. because later he will expect ice cream and if he doesn't eat dinner, he can forget that.

anyhoo....that's how we do it here. most of the time we sit together for meals. all of the food is eaten in the kitchen with the exception of popcorn with movies in the tv room.

pamela


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KaraBoo*
Respectfully, I ask this: Why is it non-negotiable for your child to sit at the dinner table and eat with the family and not get up? Is this because you feel its the only time the family is all together? What other reasons might a mom have for this?

(Note: The first word I typed there reminded me of an old disco song and I started singing..."Respectfully, I say to thee..." LOL)

edited: cuz I wrote "you" instead of "thee."

Well, I am not about the not getting up part. My kids can get up and leave the table when they are done, even if I havent finished yet.
But to me family dinners are about families eating dinner.
Food belongs at the table because it is both messy and unsociable to eat away from the table.
We travel in the car, go to the bathroom in the bathroom, brush our teeth at the sink, sleep in our beds. We also eat at tables.
In our house it is just matter of fact like all of the other appropriate places to do things.
If my child wanted to sleep in the car I would not let her. If he wanted to use a potted plant as a toilet, I would not let her. We dont brush our teeth while being pushed on the swings either.


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
Soundhunter I have never seen evidence that the act of putting food in our mouths at the same benefits kids. The act of spending daily time together seems to be what matters.

There's plenty of evidence, if you are interested in seeing it









Research on the Benefits of Family Mealtimes

Family Mealtimes: More Than Just Eating Together

The Benefits of Family Meals (pdf)

Making the Most of Family Mealtime (pdf)

Family Mealtime

family benefits from family mealtime (pdf)

Mealtime Magic

Consolidated, here are some of the benefits that research indicates:

A Harvard study published in the March 2000 issue of Archives of Family Medicine shows that eating family dinners together most or all days of the week is associated with eating more healthfully.

The study showed that families eating meals together "every day" or "almost every day" generally consumed higher amounts of important nutrients such as calcium, fiber, iron, vitamins B6 and B12, C and E, and consumed less overall fat, compared to families who "never" or "only sometimes" eat meals together.

Another University of Minnesota study published in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association found that children who ate family meals consumed more fruits, vegetables and fewer snack foods than children who ate separately from their families.

Children who frequently eat meals with their families tend to do better in school as well. A 1994 Lou Harris-Reader's Digest national poll of high school seniors showed higher scholastic scores among students who frequently shared meals with their families. And a survey of high-achieving teens showed that those who regularly eat meals with their families tend to be happier with their present life and their prospects for the future.

Other benefits I have seen cited include less mental health problems, less depression, less suicide, and less obesity.

I believe there is much wisdom to this ancient tradition of breaking bread together


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Soundhunter*
I believe there is much wisdom to this ancient tradition o f breaking bread together









Right. Not to say that eating together is the only way to get the positive health and family benefits Soundhunter reviewed, because obviously there are going to be a lot of different ways that families can achieve the same effects.

But every culture I've ever heard of has placed emotional and social importance on whom one receives nourishment from and whom one shares it with. So I figure there's got to be something there.


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## LaughingHyena (May 4, 2004)

For us it's mostly practicallities rather than any goal. DD is 18 months so eating can be quite messy, the table and dinning room floor are easy to clean. Also DH and I find we are much more likely to do the pots promptly when we eat at the table.

However it's turned into a nice family routine, DH gets in from work and we can all have some time to relax and catch up together. It also means I get a break without feeling I've "handed over" DD as soon as DH walks through the door.

It's also important to us that DD is familiar with the food we eat, she is free to choose to eat it or not and we will supply alternatives if she doesn't seem interested. We both dislike what we see among friends that when children eat seperatly they seem to eat far more unhealty foods.


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I remember going to friends houses when I was a kid and being scared about dinner and the whole saying the right thing (we never had to ask to be excused.) LOL I HATED going to people's houses where you had to "finish your plate." LOL My parents never made us "finish" our plate. We ate until we didnt want anymore.

My ds hardly ever wants to eat dinner. It's hard to get him to eat anything at all some days. I figure hey, if he was hungry, he would eat. But there are "consequences." If you dont eat, no you arent getting chocolate chips (or whatever else he does decide he wants, its always weird stuff, LOL) for dinner later. I dont make what he dislikes though either. I dont eat what I dislike and I dont expect him to eat something he thinks is disgusting either. Sometimes if I say "just take one bite and see if you like it" then he will decide it's good and sit and stay for dinner. Other days not so much. I'm also not going to sit and have a screamfest at dinnertime by forcing him to sit there. LOL


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Sorry, off-topic; Johub wrote:

Quote:

If my child wanted to sleep in the car I would not let her.
I was confused by this at first, but then I realized that you must mean if your child wanted to go out to the garage and sleep in the (not moving) car instead of in her bed you would not let her do it. Just wanted to clarify, if your child were to fall asleep while in the car on a long outing, you would allow that, right?


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

Thanks for posting the links to all the studies, soundhunter. I think, though, as with most studies out there, especially the ones that have many newspaper articles written about them for mainstream publications, these studies are not as conclusive as they advertise themselves to be.

There are too many variables. Maybe the families who don't "eat together" are watching more television instead of interacting. Maybe the family just is never home at the same time, or just involved in too many extracurricular evening activities, or the parents are working too many hours. Those could be the true variables relating to family closeness, not the actual breaking of bread together.

My husband comes home too late to have dinner with the small children all together. I feed the children and "sit" with them ( I am actually meeting various needs and getting up several times). When my husband gets home, they have intense daddy time, he gives them their baths, wrestles with them and reads them stories, and then we both take one and do bedtime, which includes talking about their days. Once the kids are in bed, we have dinner together, talk, and reconnect. I don't see how this evening ritual is leading my kids down a road of drugs and crime.

I think these studies create a familiar and cozy image that people think they can emulate, and that is why these studies are popular. It gives people a false sense that this one activity provides a cocoon of safety for their family. My family of origin always ate dinner together, and we were/are a mess, because nothing else was right.

L.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Soundhunter, thanks for pulling up those studies. You saved me alot of effort.

We eat together;that's what good families do. I think it "shows" even more on kids lately because so many kids eat dinner out of bag on their way to the next activity. My kids can really have some amazing dinner conversation. They always have something new to tell me and I them. I love the chance to connect this way. Even as babies, we pulled them up to the table with us so they could "eat" with us. Don't underestimate this simple act!


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom*

We eat together;that's what good families do.


I do not think a family has to eat together to be "good". In fact, I think forcing a child (or anyone) to sit through a meal when they do not want to is asking for trouble. There are plenty of other ways families can spend meaningful time together if dinner is either logistically impossible (due to say work schedules) or impractical due to preference limitations. We do eat as a family, but in no way do I think it is going to prevent drug use and criminal behavior......spending meaningful time togther as a family *might*. I am willing to bet that if one were to take a close look at those "studies" they would find that the families that eat together also are more likely to have more open schedules, are better at organizing family times, or are more likely to make an effort to spend "quality time" together. I would not force dd to eat with us if she did not want to.


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

"That's what good families do."

Guess I was raised in a "bad" family then. My mom worked nights and my dad worked days so that we werent raised by babysitters. We usually only ate with one parent (until we were much older and their financial situation improved and my mom didnt have to work anymore.) Not always at the table either. They spent time with us otherwise and it didnt have to revolve around a table or food.

Quote:

I don't see how this evening ritual is leading my kids down a road of drugs and crime.
It's not. I have never done drugs, never even tried a smoke, and have never been drunk or commited any crimes. Never even had a speeding ticket. LOL


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

main reason i prefer to eat together is that we eat more slowly, dd is more likely to eat everything on offer if she sees us eating it as well, and, as far as DH & I are concerned, we know exactly what /how much each is going to eat - otherwise if i eat first i end up saving stuff for him that he doesnt eat or vice versa.

in general dd and i eat together simply because we have gotten used to eating at regular times. i have eaten along with her since she started eating - i never "fed" her so i didnt have to eat at a different time. this has worked so well for us and maybe it will have become such a habit that she will not want to depart from it even when she is older and has more varied interests. dh is not always present for all meals but we try. :heart


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Soundhunter thanks! I think we misunderstand one another. I do not doubt families that eat together can benefit~but objectively none of those studies show that a meal together for half an hour in the evening has a greater impact than, say, living and homeschooling together 24 hours a day, while growing your own veggies and preparing meals as a family that all are free to intake as they choose. There is no study for *that* because it isn't a cultural norm, but objectively, it applies the same principles behind 'family mealtime', perhaps to a greater degree, without actually looking like a traditional "7pm is dinnertime" meal.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

The reasons for primitive societies to eat together are varied but not necessarily sacrosanct. Predators, limited natural light, and spiritual rituals that mandated silence and honor of the daily yield are just a few reasons for group meals around the world.

Many things which are universally and historically sound are, well, you know... (spanking, male superiority, racial superiority etc.)

I am *not* comparing a family meal to that of course, but responding to the idea of historical precedent.


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

Oh, heartmama, I agree with you, in general!

However, regular family meals are not just a tradition amongst primitive societies, they are the family standard in every modern culture that I am aware of. My background is mostly Polish, my DH's is mostly Italian, and eating together is just the way things are done, food is very important, sharing food together is tradition and culture. Every family-centric culture that I'm aware of dines together as the norm. So, it wouldn't be accurate to look at this as simply a primitive thing, though it appears to originate there. It seems to be one of the few human traditions that is shared equally among so many otherwise very different cultures, and that has endured from primitive times.

I think the important part is having consistent family traditions of some kind, that of course can be unique to different families. I personally, feel that tieing tradition with family meals is very wholesome, and I admire it as a trait practised by all of the families I have ever admired and hoped to emulate.

I grew up in the family from hell, was abused etc, and no, family meals are not the be all, end all of "good families" (we where screamed at through our family dinners), however every family that I have admired as being very functional and the kind of household I'd want to be a part of did have regular family meals that where comforting, warm, and it's one of those things that did seem to keep the household stable and glued together. I sure there are other ways to do this, but in my opinion, family dinners when done as a loving family tradition are the way to go to accomplish this, works for millions around the world, works for us too







And in our case, we intend to homeschool, and I grow much of our non-winter produce in our organic garden, but still I think we benefit from having a consistent thing that we participate together in amost every day that involves nourishment, and the good feelings that this usually brings upon us all. When we have chaotic, stressful, crazy days, we have this preditable family time of calm that we can always count on because it happens every day and has a predictable flow to it, it's a very comforting thing.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I see where you are coming from, and I'm not challenging the real benefits you've gained from your choices. I am only saying, we are seeing two sides of the same coin. And we can both find cultural comparisons to support our choices. Personally, it seems neither of us remember family meals making us feel closer or safer with our parents.The dysfunction in my family, for example, did not go away at the dinnertable. If good food can be served in a way that makes everyone miserable, (which was my experience) the food is not the glue holding the family together. I can honestly say dysfunction made mealtimes that much more awkward when I was a child. We were there in the name of "family togetherness", and while all were present at the table, with food, which we ate, we spoke and felt like strangers, uncomfortable and tense as always. Worse, really, because the close proximity brought closer scrutiny. This is what I meant in my first post.

What was missing at my childhood meals, I found with my own child. But it really has nothing to do with whether we eat at the same time...it is just, so much more than that! If that makes sense....


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

In our case, we where forced to be together when us kids wanted nothing more than to be miles away, but there was a demented forced togetherness happening. (they used to ground me from my books and make me be part of the family by watching tv for hours too, in the name of togetherness







) I figure in a dysfunctional family, any time together is going to be screwed up, even times motivated by some deep rooted best intentions. I can't imagine many families who are only dysfunctional at meal times, ya know? (well, of course there's people who make eating in general about power strugges, but I see those parents doing it with every eating opportunity, not just sit at the table family meals) I agree that we agree, I don't think family dining is the only way to accomplish what I'm describing either, but I do think it's a good one, and an easy one for most families, especially ones where both parents work in mainstream society, to strive for. Thanks for hearing me, I've enjoyed bantering with you







(and good luck with your pregnancy! We're due mid August







)


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## cheery (Jul 29, 2004)

Quote:

The reasons for primitive societies to eat together are varied but not necessarily sacrosanct.
and let us not forget limited availability of the food. If you missed mealtime, you might just miss the meal! This is still the case for a lot of families today, unfortunately.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

We are just starting to request our 3.5 yo to sit in his seat while he is eating, rather than standing next to his chair to eat (which sometimes gets really messy) or taking a couple of bites and getting out of the chair to go check out his reflection in the window or run around the room. Our current motivation is to keep the mess down as well as to get him to eat enough so he's not hungry 30 minutes later because he was so interested in doing other things that he didn't really eat. But the long-term goal is for pleasant family meals where we sit together. If my kids aren't hungry at dinner time, then they don't have to sit at the table. We only ask them to sit when they are actually eating (any time of day, actually). When the kids are done eating they get out of their chairs and go play or often want to come sit in my lap or DH's lap, which is fine by me.

Our kids like to be with us, doing what we're doing, so it really isn't an issue. But having a family dinner, with all of us eating and sitting together, is a habit that we're creating because it's important to us.


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## PennyRoo (Dec 7, 2004)

Our goal is to have a family meal with everyone seated. If DD feels she is done with her food she can leave the table at any time after asking to be excused. If she does not want to eat with us, that's fine - - I will keep her plate ready for later when she is hungry. This has happened only a handful of times, when she is very absorbed in play; generally she wants to be with us as much as possible. Often she will return to the table with drawing materials and sit and keep us company while we finish eating. There is absolutely no requirement that she finish what's on her plate or eat more than she is comfortable with. I have no interest in forcing a fidgety 3 year old to remain after the table after she is through, nor in creating food issues - I want our table to be peaceful, enjoyable and family-centered. I grew up in a household where there were lots of wierd food issues and odd rules about being forced to remain at the table for agonizing amounts of time and I do not wish to duplicate that. Peace, mamas!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

We don't plan on enforcing meals together (but then those who know my posts could have gathered that







)

I do enjoy meals together with my husband and daughter (when she is not napping)...and hopefully it will be a pleasant experience for all involved, so that more times than not she will choose to eat with us and partake in conversation etc... but I am not about forcing someone to sit and eat when they don't want to, or when they are not hungry, or when they would rather be playing or reading or whatever --- to me it defeats the whole positive aspect of sharing a meal together if you know someone is basically sitting there against their will (even metaphorically speaking).


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom*
Sorry, off-topic; Johub wrote:

I was confused by this at first, but then I realized that you must mean if your child wanted to go out to the garage and sleep in the (not moving) car instead of in her bed you would not let her do it. Just wanted to clarify, if your child were to fall asleep while in the car on a long outing, you would allow that, right?









Yeah that is exactly waht I meant. I wouldnt wake a sleeping child during a car trip. But at home we sleep in our beds, not in the car.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Just thought I'd stick my own personal update in this thread, since it's apropriate.

This past Monday we went and bought a dining table and chairs, deciding that it's time to start the "family sit down dinner". Now that DH will be working OTH, I'm getting ready to be in full charge of meals (he's really the cook in the family) and I thought Valentine's Day would be a good place to start.

DD was happy to join us at the table. She didn't like what I served for dinner (quel surprise, as they say). But she did sit with us for a few minutes. When she left, I told her that when people want to leave the table they can say "excuse me". This was done in a very informative voice, as though passing on new information, not the least bit scolding. She was not forced to stay, nor forced to eat.

It was really nice. DS stayed in his high chair with us for quite a while, but that kid will eat anything! Then we let him down, and DH and I finished our meal together. I served desert (for V-Day) but told DD that she needed to eat "some" dinner before desert. She did try, bless her heart, but I guess fish and rice was just too much for her incredibly limited palate. Later that evening we made her some mac 'n cheese, and she had a few bites of desert after that (which she forgot to ask for right away, lol).

I'm making it a point to serve salad and/or veggies at each meal. I am sure hoping that DD's tastes will expand. She'll get a small serving of whatever we are eating. If she doesn't want it, she can wait until we're all done and then we'll get her something else. But she did at least try the last meal before deciding she hated it. And it was just really nice to sit down together.

Thanks for the encouragement, all of you! (and thank you IKEA, for having a solid pine table and 4 chairs for a measly $170!!!)


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
Just thought I'd stick my own personal update in this thread, since it's apropriate.

This past Monday we went and bought a dining table and chairs, deciding that it's time to start the "family sit down dinner". Now that DH will be working OTH, I'm getting ready to be in full charge of meals (he's really the cook in the family) and I thought Valentine's Day would be a good place to start.

DD was happy to join us at the table. She didn't like what I served for dinner (quel surprise, as they say). But she did sit with us for a few minutes. When she left, I told her that when people want to leave the table they can say "excuse me". This was done in a very informative voice, as though passing on new information, not the least bit scolding. She was not forced to stay, nor forced to eat.

It was really nice. DS stayed in his high chair with us for quite a while, but that kid will eat anything! Then we let him down, and DH and I finished our meal together. I served desert (for V-Day) but told DD that she needed to eat "some" dinner before desert. She did try, bless her heart, but I guess fish and rice was just too much for her incredibly limited palate. Later that evening we made her some mac 'n cheese, and she had a few bites of desert after that (which she forgot to ask for right away, lol).

I'm making it a point to serve salad and/or veggies at each meal. I am sure hoping that DD's tastes will expand. She'll get a small serving of whatever we are eating. If she doesn't want it, she can wait until we're all done and then we'll get her something else. But she did at least try the last meal before deciding she hated it. And it was just really nice to sit down together.

Thanks for the encouragement, all of you! (and thank you IKEA, for having a solid pine table and 4 chairs for a measly $170!!!)









Piglet, I have found that my dd's are much more likely to EVENTUALLY try something new, if they don't feel that they are getting a sepearte meal later.

By this I do NOT mean that she should have to eat the fish and rice or nothing. What I mean is that she might be more likely to eat those things if she sees them as being served as part of "her meal".

So maybe I would have served mac' n cheese as another side dish with the fish and rice.

And I would not give her a serving of ANYTHING until she asks for it. So if bowls of rice and mac n cheese are on the table, she can then ask for the mac and cheese, and thus feel that she is fully participating in your meal. YKWIM??

I think that psychologically kids become better eaters when they don't see themselves as needing a seperate meal. This is not a matter of what she is getting but just how it is served.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

One thing I do for dinners (rather than make something different later) is to offer something that is an easy standby at every meal.
Usually that is cut raw veggies and a piece of cheese. These things are always availible at our house with no extra prep. And it saves the short order cook issue.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I agree that a table full of new foods is likely to make her balk. Just thinking out loud, but when I go to a buffet, I tend to have basic familiar things I depend on, and then I add this or that new thing to try as I go back. Makes sense a child would do the same.


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