# Would you ever own a gun?



## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Alrighty, then. My DH is going to have to start traveling a lot for work. He says he is concerned for the kids and I to stay in the house alone, and there is no where else for all three of us to stay while he is out of town.

He wants to purchase a gun and get some shooting lessons for me so that I could use the gun for home defense. He also wants to get one because we are getting chickens in the spring and there are lots of possums (which can be pretty mean) and raccoons (which really love fresh chicken) around here and he would like to have one for poultry protection.

I have never fired a gun, and I used to think that I never would. But, I think I might be starting to change my mind. I mean, if I get chickens for pets, it will be my responsibility (or DH's) to keep them safe. And, although I can never see myself shooting anyone, I suppose if it came to someone hurting or taking my child, I could do it.

So, would you ever consider having a gun? If you have one, where do you keep it?

***I am really not trying to start a huge ugly discussion, but I know this is an emotional issue. Please try to remain as civil as possible.***


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

No way, for me. I lived in a house filled with guns and was nervous b/c of that growing up. That is just something we don't and won't consider here for our family now. Not even for pretend play or as toys. I teach my children what I know, that guns kill people and animals. Imo, that is what they are made for and used for, not for "protection".

I have a dp who travels a lot. We live in an area that isn't so great, not so bad either (compared to a mile down the street) and I have not thought about needing a gun for protection at all. I keep lights on inside and out and feel safe enough doing that. I have also lived in different states from him while he was at a new job. Last year I lived 2 months alone and this year (in April/May) I lived 2 months alone and never felt I needed a gun to keep my children and myself safe. As for poultry, we had many when I was young and the guns were not for keeping them safe (father was a hunter and had some for "protection" that never needed to be used for "protection", ever.) We did have a rooster who protected the hens and kept them safe. I grew up on 10 acres (surrounded by others who also had 10 acres...and lots of nothing behind us but acres upon acres) and we had coyotes, badgers, racoons, opposums, snakes, etc. We never needed to keep them safe with a gun either. While I know most people would not want a rooster for obvious reasons...if you feel you must keep the chickens safe a rooster seems like a much safer alternative than getting a gun.

Good luck with your choice, mama.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

We have a gun, but it's not for protection use. My Dh inherited it when his dad died and it just sits in our closet now locked up. I'm not sure I could get a gun for protection purposes, that just scares me w/ young children. You're supposed to keep ammo seperate from the gun and them locked up etc, what good does that do if you need it for protection, kwim? I hate being here alone w/ the kids, I do it once a week b/c of DH's work schedule. Hopefully I won't feel as apprehensive when we move in a few mos to a better (hopefully) area. I have no idea about the chickens, that's too country for me. lol


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Yes, absolutely. We have lived in areas with fairly high crime, and we had a shotgun which we kept under the bed (we had no children and didn't even know anyone with children at the time. No children were ever in the house, and we would have moved it if there had been). I knew how to shoot it, but honestly I hoped that the sound of the racking-- a very loud and distinctive sound!!-- would be enough.

We have a 20 mo now, so we have changed our method.

We keep one, in a case, with a trigger lock (the key hidden elsewhere, shells elsewhere) out of her reach and sight in the closet. You also have to hold down the safety to rack the shells. She has never seen it, and guns are NOT ever, will never be, toys for her. We don't do bb guns, either. When she's older, we educate her age-appropriately.

Just today the dog started barking oddly while I was in the shower. I got out to see what was up, and noticed that the front door was unlocked and looked slightly ajar. I immediately--in a towel-- went through a plan in my mind-- send dog to check/distract, get the baby, lock the bedroom door, rack the shotgun, hope all is well. I never got beyond sending the dog downstairs; As it turned out, I think the wind blew open the door and the dog was freaking out about that... but I have to say, I was skeptical about the gun until I thought someone was in the house, looked in the closet, saw the case, and thought, "Okay--- I can defend my baby." Seriously, that's exactly what went through my mind.

I am not sure what we will do about the guns as she gets older/more explorative. I think we will probably invest in a locking gun cabinet that we keep in our bedroom closet. It needs to be accessible for home defense but obviously not accesible to children...

Shot guns look scary, but one "good" thing about them is that it would be basically impossible for my DD to shoot *herself* with it (or probably even lift it)--it is a lot longer than she is tall. It is *difficult* to shoot (coordinating pushing the safety, the difficulty of racking, etc) I actually feel *much* better about that than a pistol.

ETA-- I will prob. delete this post in a few days just bc we don't publicize the gun thing, much-- they are popular items for thieving.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't have a gun, and I never will. My thoughts are this - you need to keep the gun locked up to keep it safe. If there's a home invasion, chances are you won't have time to unlock your gun and load it. Plus if the invader got your gun, that would be really bad. And it seems like there have been a number of children killed by guns lately, one a two year old of a police officer. I'm not willing to take that risk.

We have an alarm system we set when we're gone, and at night. It provides me a sense of protection knowing I'll be alerted if someone comes in.

Regarding the chickens - I have no idea. A gun seems sort of drastic, though, but that's just me.


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## ladybugzz (Aug 4, 2004)

Nope - just no reason for it as I see it.

Good luck with your decision momma. It's a tough one.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

no.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Yes, absolutely. But I know without a doubt that if someone comes into my home with the intent to harm my children or I, I will shoot them. If I didn't truly believe that, I wouldn't allow one in the home.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
Yes, absolutely. But I know without a doubt that if someone comes into my home with the intent to harm my children or I, I will shoot them. If I didn't truly believe that, I wouldn't allow one in the home.

Yes.

Honestly, I probably would not have one _just_ to protect chickens. I agree that a dog would be better for that.


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## midnightmommy (Apr 14, 2008)

I grew up with guns, and I am comfortable with them in the house. We don't have any, but we don't hunt. My husband is gone for work several nights. I personally like our security system. My 76 pound, well trained black lab. She is way scarier to a potential burglar than the possibility that we might have a gun. The dog is a constant reminder of teeth and an instant burglar alarm. They also keep raccoons and possums away pretty well. My mom has six dogs and several guns. She never locks the doors to her house, but it has nothing to do with the guns.

I grew up to believe the same a PP guns are made for killing animals and people. If your going to shoot a gun it is with the intent to kill. So if your not comfortable the fact that you could potential kill someone a gun is not for you. Gun should always be stored with a trigger lock, in a locked case, and unloaded. Ammo should be stored separately from the gun. These safety measure make it less useful to protect your home, but they protect you kids. Not to mention it gives you time to identify exactly what is going on before you stroll out there with a loaded gun. That brings up more questions...Do you feel that you could keep that gun under your control if ambushed? Are you going to be too scared when you walk out there to clearly identify who is in you home? More accidents happen when people shoot first and ask questions later. I'm sorry I just get nervous when I here people are getting weapons to protect their homes. Like I said I don't take issue with guns in the home. I just worry about people getting them for the wrong reasons.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 
I never come to Family Safety but I will post here for this, I'm kinda nuts about this topic.

No.

Never in a kazillion years.

You can kill (or scare off) a possum with a pellet gun. Or a dog, honestly, the dogs work better.

When someone shoots their face off don't act surprised.

First of all, dogs kill chickens. They don't usually protect them.

Secondly, I think I asked for people to be civil.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veggiemomma* 
First of all, dogs kill chickens. They don't usually protect them.

Secondly, I think I asked for people to be civil.

Post edited


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## midnightmommy (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veggiemomma* 
First of all, dogs kill chickens. They don't usually protect them.

Actually, that's not true of all dogs. We had a husky growing up that used to nap with our rooster, and our Australian Shepard used the heard them to the pen every night but never hurt them. Just stay away from hunting breeds that are supposed to kill birds.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Thank you all for posting. This is a hard decision for me. I appreciate the idea of a dog, but seriously, any dog that I have ever known has considered chickens to be feathery toys for them to hunt. I'm not sure how to train a dog not to chase chickens, but to chase possums...this is something I need to look into.

I realize that there are a lot of people, children included, who are accidentally killed by people misfiring guns every year. That is part of why I feel conflicted about it. To post links about children mishandling guns is beating a dead horse, so to speak.


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## Artemnesia (May 13, 2007)

No. I guess I won't state my reasons!


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## S.Lee (Jan 27, 2007)

If you decide to get one, definitely take the classes, especially the advanced ones with emphasis on self defense. And practice practice practice! When you aren't comfortable handling a weapon is when accidents are most likely to happen. Shop around til you find an instructor you are comfortable with. And the answer is yes we actually own several. I second the pp's thoughts on teaching the children age appropriate info. about guns.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Owning a gun for anything other than the fun of shooting targets would make me scared.


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## mamatoakd (Jun 11, 2008)

No.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

S.Lee said:


> If you decide to get one, definitely take the classes, especially the advanced ones with emphasis on self defense. And practice practice practice! When you aren't comfortable handling a weapon is when accidents are most likely to happen. QUOTE]
> 
> This is very good advice.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artemnesia* 
No. I guess I won't state my reasons!

I never said you couldn't post your reasons.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

MaterPrimaePuellae said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *S.Lee*
> ...


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## libertymom (Jul 1, 2008)

We have 4 guns in the house. All loaded ready to shoot. They are kept high where kids can't reach and the shotgun (which, like pp said, is too heavy for the kids to even lift) stays under the bed and I can hardly rack it so I know it will be a long time before the kids can. The kids know not to touch the guns, but they also are not scared of them. All 3 of the kids learned to shoot last Thanksgiving. We didn't shoot anything but a tree stump, but we feel it is important to not be afraid of guns and not be curious about them either. That is when kids accidently shoot themselves or others. They know all the rules, kwim? And they know if they want to shoot, we will take them.
Yes, occasionally a kid gets a hold of a gun and shoots himself and the media makes a huge deal about it. Just like when a baby dies of SIDS and they were in bed with their parents they want to say co-sleeping is bad.

Anyway, an armed society is a polite society.

I also carry one whenever I am going to be out after dark. Or when I go running early in the am. How many times have you heard of women being killed while out jogging? I hear that ALL the time.


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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

No. Quite honestly, I think I would be more likely to hurt myself or another person I did not intend to hurt if I were to handle a gun in the event of a home invasion.

I have 2 dogs that make a ridiculous ruckus if anyone even comes near the house. It is not fool proof protection obviously, but it does help me feel better.

I keep doors locked and I don't open the door for anyone I don't know well.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Yes & we do.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veggiemomma* 
So, would you ever consider having a gun? If you have one, where do you keep it?

No, never would. When we lived in rural Maine, before children, it crossed our minds. Still decided against.

if you're really concerned about home security - get a home security system, motion sensor lights outside, a fence, & a dog. In order for your gun to be reachable in an emergency, I'd think it would be too accessible for children.


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## MommaShark (Oct 23, 2007)

We own 2 hand guns and several shotguns....I love to shoot things (inanimate objects)! Everyone around here has guns and we have no home robberies - you'd get shot! I live in a rural area so it's a little different. I am scared about letting my kids go over to other people's houses because of guns - not knowing how they are locked up etc....though.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I wouldn't own a gun. I certainly wouldn't own a gun with children in the house. Most of the studies I've come across have told me that you are more likely to get shot by your own gun then by someone breaking into your house with a gun.

I have nothing against gun owners, provided they are responsible. If someone has a gun in their home, DD won't be going there until I know for sure the guns are safely locked away. To many people think it's ok to keep a gun on the top shelf because "The kids can't reach it."

And despite all that, we still teach gun safety because you can never know.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

nope and like other's have said I wouldn't even consider it with children in the home. But then I have no reason to be afraid and can't imagine using a gun anyway, for any reason actually. They kinda freak me out to be honest.

We live in a area with very low crime, have a security alarm that's set for all doors and windows as well as motion detector lights in the front and back yard. Also, I live across the street from a cop and here they drive their squad cars home so his sits in his driveway.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

I have a gun. Actually, I have two.









I grew up around guns. I was at the shooting range by age 5. And could shoot properly and quite well by age 8. I could recite you gun safety and responsibility backwards and forwards by age 4.

Until I was 18, I had NO idea where the guns were kept in the house. The guns and bullets were kept separately. In separate safes.

I have followed the same protocol with which I grew up. I keep my guns in one safe. I keep my bullets in another. ALWAYS. I am NEVER lazy or lax about this - despite the fact that we have no kids yet.

I was taught that there is NO such thing as an accident with a gun. Only irresponsible use. And I think this is 100% true. A gun will not harm you, unless you use it in an ignorant way or in a way that lacks responsibility.

I have never had an accident, no one in my family has had an accident, and no responsible gun owner that I know has ever had an accident.

But, this takes vigilance. So, when I come home from the gun range (it's a good stress release, lol), if I'm tired or worn out or want a shower or am hungry - doesn't matter. I ALWAYS put the guns away in the safe, the bullets in the other safe. That is the first thing I do, and I've never forgotten.

I can't stress that enough. Guns can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

So, I would DEFINITELY take lessons first before purchasing a gun. First, it's pointless to own a gun if you don't know how to shoot a target. Second, guns require proper handling, storage, and cleaning. Improper use can result in accidents ... so definitely take the lessons first.









Otherwise, you sound like you're being smart about this. So, go to the shooting range, try out a few guns, and see how it feels. If you don't like it, don't feel comfortable - don't get one. If you're OK with it - get one. Remember, a gun, alone, can't hurt you. Only you can hurt yourself or another with the way you use it. So, if you're safe about it - there's no danger.

In fact, more people and kids get stabbed with knives in the kitchen than harmed with a gun. Statistically speaking, of course.


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## skai (Apr 21, 2007)

Never ever. Don't even want to touch one. If I lived in an area dangerous enough to make me consider guns, I would move.


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## FiddleMama (Feb 27, 2007)

No. I would never purchase a gun. I would never allow a gun in my home.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Yes, we own several. DH and I shoot them on a regular basis, DH carries one concealed. He also carries one on duty.

They are all kept loaded and ready in our gun safe (which is locked and bolted to our bedroom floor right next to our bed). We realize that guns are tools and can, and should, be used for specific purposes. It is when people are ignorant of that fact that "bad things" happen.

I would also NEVER leave a gun out where it was accessible to my children. I don't care how high or how well-hidden, I believe it's irresponsible.

I would NVER have an unloaded gun with ammo elsewhere. People seem to think that it's "safer", but if you actually need the weapon, you can't run and get it, then run to where the ammo is and then load it properly under stress in any reasonable amount of time. Pointless.

I am very straight-forward to others (my kids' parents, friends, family) and also inquire about houses that my own LOs go to.


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## ~mermommy~ (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks Libertymom! I completely agree!
The sound of breaking glass when you are alone with the kids is a bad time to wish you had a gun. Teach the kids to be safe! But don't make it a mystery; thats when things go wrong! To further libertymom's point...we drive cars everyday, even though we might get in an accident. But we had a lot of practice and education before we got behind the wheel!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *libertymom* 
We have 4 guns in the house. All loaded ready to shoot. They are kept high where kids can't reach and the shotgun (which, like pp said, is too heavy for the kids to even lift) stays under the bed and I can hardly rack it so I know it will be a long time before the kids can. The kids know not to touch the guns, but they also are not scared of them. All 3 of the kids learned to shoot last Thanksgiving. We didn't shoot anything but a tree stump, but we feel it is important to not be afraid of guns and not be curious about them either. That is when kids accidently shoot themselves or others. They know all the rules, kwim? And they know if they want to shoot, we will take them.
Yes, occasionally a kid gets a hold of a gun and shoots himself and the media makes a huge deal about it. Just like when a baby dies of SIDS and they were in bed with their parents they want to say co-sleeping is bad.

Anyway, an armed society is a polite society.

I also carry one whenever I am going to be out after dark. Or when I go running early in the am. How many times have you heard of women being killed while out jogging? I hear that ALL the time.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

A friend of mine's husband owned a gun store. he used to say something that always stuck with me.

"No person should ever purchase a gun for protection if they are not fully prepared to kill a person"

I think if you are not 100% comfortable with the idea then it's not a good one for your family.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I would consider it if we moved to a rural area in the mountains for protection against bears and other wild life. But staying in the city, probably not.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *libertymom* 

Anyway, an armed society is a polite society.


I disagree so vehemently with this idea.

No. I do not own a gun. I don't want to predict the future so I cannot honestly say that I will NEVER own a gun. I do not want to own one, however, and I don't foresee that changing anytime in the near future.

I'm not against kids learning about guns. I'm against guns.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
I have a gun. Actually, I have two.









I grew up around guns. I was at the shooting range by age 5. And could shoot properly and quite well by age 8. I could recite you gun safety and responsibility backwards and forwards by age 4.

Until I was 18, I had NO idea where the guns were kept in the house. The guns and bullets were kept separately. In separate safes.

I have followed the same protocol with which I grew up. I keep my guns in one safe. I keep my bullets in another. ALWAYS. I am NEVER lazy or lax about this - despite the fact that we have no kids yet.

I was taught that there is NO such thing as an accident with a gun. Only irresponsible use. And I think this is 100% true. A gun will not harm you, unless you use it in an ignorant way or in a way that lacks responsibility.

I have never had an accident, no one in my family has had an accident, and no responsible gun owner that I know has ever had an accident.

But, this takes vigilance. So, when I come home from the gun range (it's a good stress release, lol), if I'm tired or worn out or want a shower or am hungry - doesn't matter. I ALWAYS put the guns away in the safe, the bullets in the other safe. That is the first thing I do, and I've never forgotten.

I can't stress that enough. Guns can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

So, I would DEFINITELY take lessons first before purchasing a gun. First, it's pointless to own a gun if you don't know how to shoot a target. Second, guns require proper handling, storage, and cleaning. Improper use can result in accidents ... so definitely take the lessons first.









Otherwise, you sound like you're being smart about this. So, go to the shooting range, try out a few guns, and see how it feels. If you don't like it, don't feel comfortable - don't get one. If you're OK with it - get one. Remember, a gun, alone, can't hurt you. Only you can hurt yourself or another with the way you use it. So, if you're safe about it - there's no danger.

In fact, more people and kids get stabbed with knives in the kitchen than harmed with a gun. Statistically speaking, of course.









Very well stated. imo guns are tools & therefore not inherently "bad" or automatically dangerous, but need to be treated with respect & knowledge.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

No.

If I were ever to have a gun, in order to feel safe with kids in the house, I'd have to (a) have a trigger lock (b) keep the key somewhere else (c) keep the ammunition locked up somewhere else.

So, what are the chances, if there's an intruder, that I'm going to be able to unlock the trigger, unlock the ammunition, and put the 2 together in order to be able to defend myself? Logicistically it doesn't make sense.

Add to that the fact that I'm absolutely opposed to handguns, and no, I wouldn't.

If I hunted (and would eat the meat) that would be one thing. But we're not a hunting family and never have been. (My dad used to hunt, and quit after a friend of his nearly blew off my dad's foot. My dad grew up on a farm in a rural area and so it wasn't because he was opposed to killing animals, he just didnt' think it was safe!)

So for us, a gun would be a source of danger, not protection.

If I were worried about my physical safety in the house, I'd get an alarm that was linked to an alarm service.

For chickens, I'd build a chicken coop with a sturdy fence around it and either hope that was enough or get a dog (if the chickens are in the fenced area, the dog will stay out, and the possums/raccoons will be less likely to come in). Don't farm dogs learn not to chase chickens?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
A friend of mine's husband owned a gun store. he used to say something that always stuck with me.

"No person should ever purchase a gun for protection if they are not fully prepared to kill a person"

I think if you are not 100% comfortable with the idea then it's not a good one for your family.

See that I don't totally agree with. If your fully prepared to kill someone then you need to rethink whether or not you should have a gun. They scariest thing I ever hear in relation to guns is "If someone breaks into my house I will shoot to kill without a second though."

The only way to be fully and completely prepared to kill another human being is if you can do it without the emotional consequences. Otherwise, your simple prepared to fire and accept that death may happen as a result and you will likely (and hopefully) experience an emotional backlash for it.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

No, we live in a fairly rough area of the Paris suburbs but even then it wouldn't really dawn on me to have one? but I guess that we don't really go out after sundown or things like that - so by some ways we are curbing our activities; although my father had one when we lived out in the back of beyond lol, he gave it up when the new gun licencing laws came in, in the UK, guns across here in europe aren't as widely kept as in the US I think, or at least it sounds - they scare me a bit, however, having a dog might not scare them off either if some one is intent on breaking into your house, my uncle's two black labs were drugged and the theives only robbed the ground floor of his house, he slept through the whole thing.

Anyway for the chickens, we had chickens and had a slight problem with foxes, and my mum bought guinea fowl which screeched and squawked at anything, geese too are quite good guard dogs, but we did lock up the poultry every night just before sundown to eleviate any problems; so I think an air rifle would be my choice in that you would frighten them off - I mean the possums and racoons - (or at least I would hope that it would) without actually having a serious weapon around - although a friend of my brother's shot my brother by accident in the back of the leg - he just wasn't gun aware - and wanted to see if it would hurt







!


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## feelinghealthy (Sep 23, 2008)

Of course NO









i prefer someone to shoot me that to kill somebody.
hopefully in greece where I live we don't have very high criminality


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Absolutely. Like others have said, be smart about it. Take lessons. Take the kids to gun safety classes (if they are old enough) and so on.

Guns are not scary in the least, IMO.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skai* 
Never ever. Don't even want to touch one. If I lived in an area dangerous enough to make me consider guns, I would move.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *FiddleMama* 
No. I would never purchase a gun. I would never allow a gun in my home.









: DH brought it up once, I told him I would leave him before I would live in a house with a gun. I do not visit anyone who I KNOW has a gun (and I realize that I can't know about everyone, but once I know I can make a choice) I am far more worried about my child getting into a gun and getting hurt (I have two friends who have lost cousins this way) than I am about dying in a home invasion. (Which is incredibly rare in my area. I think there have been 5 in the whole province in the past year - deaths not home invasions.)

But I live in Canada and on every thread I've ever seen about guns, we have different opinions.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

we own guns. however, we are very safety conscience, which i believe is a requirement for gun ownership. to each his own.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I'm pretty sure that the laws on home invasion in some states require you to run away if possible. So before deciding about getting a gun for protection, make sure you look up exactly what would happen if you fired it.

On another topic, I learned it as "never point a gun at anyone you aren't prepared to kill."


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

There is one scenario where I would at least consider some kind of gun. My parents moved to the woods for retirement. Their property is absolutely packed with all sorts of animals. For the most part this is just a great show. Its like living in an enchanted forest. However, they do have bears and wolves. Having at least one shotgun is considered a requirement.

My Mom once got trapped out in the lake where she was floating when a bear decided to stop by the shore for a snack. A neighbor spotted what was going on. He just hung out with his gun while my Mom stayed in the water until the bear went on its way.

For this reason, I'm ok visiting their home even though they have a weapon. However, when kids are around I expect it to be put away instead of sitting by the back door.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I think the only way I'd consider it is if I lived in bear/cougar country and had livestock to protect. I might even consider it just to protect the children. That said, I don't think I'd ever live rurally, so it's a city life for me. And no, I'd never consider a gun, even in the most crime ridden areas of the city. I grew up in a high crime area, but no way, no how.

I do have to add my voice to the dog camp. There are plenty of dogs/breeds that are great for chickens. You don't even need a protecting breed, a great big Newfoundland (yes, I love these dogs) should be good with the birds, a huge visual deterrent, will bark for you and a great family pet.


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

My dad is a hunter and always had guns around when I was growing up. It was never a secret- he taught us about gun safety, never kept a loaded gun in the house EVER, and we just knew not to touch them. I hunted with him, and definitely have a respect for them...

However.

I don't feel that I would ever keep a gun in my house with children. If its not loaded, then the purpose to shoot a home invader is pretty much null and void. PLus, I remember from Criminalistics 101 in college that you are a ton more likely to have your gun taken and used on YOU. I really think a nice heavy baseball bat is the better option. And an alarm system.

MAYBE if my husband hunted and had a few rifles or something I would be ok with keeping them out of sight and under lock and key UNLOADED. Maybe.


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## MommaShark (Oct 23, 2007)

I posted earlier that we own guns - but didn't mention that while we have mountain lions visit regularly and bear, coyote, bobcat, etc.... I don't take them out on the property when walking with my LO and the goats....I just hope they go for the goats







If we had a home invasion - I would never be able to get the safe open in time.......before the LO came along - it was by the bed side.....we've had a mountain lion come up on our back deck......
My kid is also the only one not allowed to pretend shoot people in this town.....it's a hunting/gun toting Sarah Palin kind of place.

For home robbery protection - you'd have to keep the gun practically under your pillow.....and that's how accidents probably occur......I'd stick with dogs (although mine have slept through people coming in the house at midnight (after a long car trip) so who knows....... a fancy alarm system?
We keep our goats and will keep our chicken behind an electric fence for their safety......that might work for you too?


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Never.


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## KaliShanti (Mar 23, 2008)

*Yes*. We own several.


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## Jezzy (Sep 20, 2006)

No way! I HATE guns. My cousin shot himself in the head on thanksgiving 24 years ago. I *know* that the gun didn't shoot him on its own. I know that he killed himself and if he didn't have a gun he would have done something else.... but I just hate guns.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feelinghealthy* 
i prefer someone to shoot me that to kill somebody.
hopefully in greece where I live we don't have very high criminality

I mean this seriously, not snarkily-- would you prefer they shoot your kids? I know there are some religious belief systems (like Quakers) who do in fact feel this way; but I definitely do not.

I SO agree with libertymom. I also believe that the ultimate (and by ultimate, I mean last) defense against a bad government is an armed citizenry. Our family is one mandatory vaccination/mandatory public schooling/mandatory "government guardianship"-type law away from moving to the Ozarks. I mean that very seriously. When and if we get there, I think we'll want more than a home alarm system.

ETA, more children under 5 die by drowning in swimming pools than in gun accidents.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah and do you think that citizens with guns can do anything re: the government? This isn't the 1700s any more.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

yep, we have a few. dh keeps his handgun in his car hidden, and a rifle in his trunk because it was a gift for ds and he is too young for it but kept bringing it out in the living room to show ppl.









and we have one other in our closet up high.

ALL the ammo is locked in a safe ds doesnt know we have.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
Guns are not scary in the least, IMO.

they are if no one knows the safety rules! and if they are a forbidden fruit.


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## Authentic_Mother (Feb 25, 2007)

We do own a gun and probably will get another one. I also thought I would NEVER have a gun in our home as it scares me to death the amount of stories you see people gettnig shot with their own weapons. However - my husband is gone 2 weeks a month and with the way things are in this world you can never be to safe.
I know how to shoot and our gun has the right kind of ammo that I only have to aim in the right direction to kill. When it comes to protecting my family I will do so.
Do I like it - not really. But it does make me feel a little safer.
My husband also uses his gun to hunt with and NEVER leaves ammo with the gun. Nothing like truly organic meat for almost free!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Never. And if DH wanted one (he doesn't) I'd move out with the kids.

I support the right to own a gun and grew up in a home with loaded guns on the wall. It was all alright.







: But at this time, with my children in the home, I cannot wrap my head around having one...not gunn'a happen.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Yes we have lots. My dh hunts, as did I in the past. My dad collects guns so the boys already have several. They are all locked, with trigger locks (except the boys guns which are in a closet in boxes), the ammo is in a box in our storage room.

We don't have them for protection, we have them for hunting. I highly doubt someone would break into my house with my extremely massive and protective dog anyways.

Quote:

I teach my children what I know, that guns kill people and animals.
No, they don't. People kill people and animals. The guns don't do it themselves.

My boys know guns are dangerous and they aren't toys. We will not make guns a huge mysterious taboo thing, I believe that only makes kids more interested.


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## tatangel19 (Sep 16, 2006)

Could and do. Like anything else, safety is 1#. I think with the proper precautions, it is no more dangerous than knives, and we all have those. And yes, I HAVE needed it.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Yes. We have started to get some gang and drug stuff trickling into this area from the city. And we also have bears around, which are getting increasingly more displaced and distressed from the land development explosion around here. So there are certainly threats to our safety. And I have no qualms about shooting anyone or anything necessary to protect my family.

A compromise that many consider reasonable for having a gun loaded and ready but reasonably safe from kids is a fingerprint lock safe so that no one but you can open it.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

I've been struggling iwth this myself and have actually considered asking here. I hope this discussion stays civil. I am really valuing the input.


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## tatangel19 (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
I mean this seriously, not snarkily-- would you prefer they shoot your kids? I know there are some religious belief systems (like Quakers) who do in fact feel this way; but I definitely do not.

I SO agree with libertymom. I also believe that the ultimate (and by ultimate, I mean last) defense against a bad government is an armed citizenry. Our family is one mandatory vaccination/mandatory public schooling/mandatory "government guardianship"-type law away from moving to the Ozarks. I mean that very seriously. When and if we get there, I think we'll want more than a home alarm system.

ETA, more children under 5 die by drowning in swimming pools than in gun accidents.

I agree wholeheartedly.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Yes. I do not currently own a gun, but I would purchase one without hesitation if I felt the need.


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## brackin (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
"No person should ever purchase a gun for protection if they are not fully prepared to kill a person"

I think if you are not 100% comfortable with the idea then it's not a good one for your family.

This, exactly.

I'm not someone who is at all comfortable with owning a gun; they scare me even when used recreationally. Really I don't even want to look at one.

However, if someone entered my home with the intent of harming my family, I would not hesitate to protect them using whatever means necessary.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

When I lived on an organic farm, before ds was born, we had a 22 rifle and a bb gun. They were mostly to ward off chicken killers (opossums, raccons, other dogs, and copper heads). We killed a couple of opossums after they killed some chickens and a copperhead.

Now i live in the city, and I would not have a gun. Yes we have a very high murder rate in my city (philadelphia) but I have no interest in having a gun in my house. I do have a dog and there are 6 adults and ds in the house.

My inlaws have guns in their house because they live rurally (they are in a gun safe, unloaded, bullets elsewhere etc) it doesn't bother me in the country.

It bothers me more in the city, because of the high gun violence.

Also I have to say I am not really afraid of home invasion. nor do I think that if my partner was home somehow I would be infintely safer and if he was gone, somehow I would need a weapon. That doesn't compute for me. If someone is watching me enough to know that I'm home alone (then they'd problem wait until the house is empty anyway) then I think having my gun lock in a safe, with a trigger lock, with my ammo in another safe, isn't going to do much for me.

However, if the issue is protecting livestock, I can get more behind that.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Also if the issue is just protecting chickens, *fire crackers* work very well for that (as they sound like gun shots and scare animals away)


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

yes...

DH is a police officer and I used to be and we are very comfortable with guns. My "mom" instinct is still stonger than my comfortableness with guns so I do check and double check and triple check that our guns are not accessable to our DD.

OP - I think in general it would be safest for you to have a good 'ole shot gun. It can take care of larger animals that would cause harm to you/and or your live stock, IT WILL TRULY take care of business if there was someone in your house attempting to hurt you, and it is not easy for a child to get a hold of- they are heavy and it is difficult for smaller hands to open and load the bullets.
Having a shot gun also gives you the option of using different ammo- bird shot- which is usually less lethal, would be my choice.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I haven't seen this posted yet, so here ya go:

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

Whether or not you own guns, I think it's incredibly important to teach your children what to do in case they come across a gun. This is a good program, even for those who are opposed to the NRA.


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## FullMetalMom (Aug 27, 2008)

Your child is WAY WAY WAY more likely to be killed by a swimming pool than a gun. I have guns, but my personal belief is that they should not be kept for personal defense. I second getting a baseball bat (a billy club is a great option too).

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but the person who said they keep their guns loaded (and its ok because they're out of the children's reach and the kids "know better") is being extremely irresponsible. That kind of thinking could end you up with a dead child (or neighbor's child).


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Yeah and do you think that citizens with guns can do anything re: the government? This isn't the 1700s any more.

This is perhaps OT, *but*--

Will it make a difference for one family to have a gun? Um, no, definitely not. Will it make a difference is 50% of Americans have one, are trained to use it properly, and are prepared to defend their families? Possibly.
What I think more likely, though, is that (if the government seriously oversteps its boundaries.... like, more than it already has) individual states would secede. It's not like it hasn't happened before. One of the purposes of a state militia (I know SC has one) is to protect the state from the federal gov't should the need arise. So... we would probably join the militia. My understanding is the members of the militia provide their own weapons (?). This is something I've only studied a bit.

Wow, this comes across as so crazily paranoid.







I definitely hope none of this ever happens-- sadly, I suspect we're more likely to just lose our Constitutional freedoms one bit at a time until my great-grandchildren live very differently than we do now.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

I don't know the stats but it is pretty widely published that people are very likely to get killed with their own gun should violent crime occur in their own home. Unless one was very properly trained (I am talking about police or miltary type training) I would think buying a gun for self protection would be a bad idea.

My family and dad owned guns, my family would target shoot for sport as well as hunting. My family is (for the most part) miltary trained and comfortable with all sorts of firearms.

Our household guns were very easily accessible but I never, ever, ever would have considered touching it with my dad present. Unfortunately, I don't think kids now a days have a health level of respect for such things and that worries me greatly.

We currently own three guns; an inherited shotgun, another shot gun I won in a raffle and a hunting rifle. These are kept locked and there is no ammo in the house.

DH is fairly anti-gun in some ways but sees merit in teaching DS about guns.

We recently bought a property close to a shooting range. DH and I discussed getting a handgun for target shooting. I learned about guns and gun safety at my uncles' hips growing up and I think my son should learn the same way. It is also an activity I enjoyed. DH has expressed interest in this. If we do get a hand gun, we would both attend classes and keep it properly stored.

My feelings are influenced by where we live. Gun ownership is very common and I want DS to be *very* educated as he grows and visits other people's homes.

All that being said, I can understand the feelings of people who were not raised in similar situations. I had college friends who absolutely didn't understand hunting or gun ownership. (city dwellers







) They were totally freaked out about everything surrounding the issue and thought any person that owned a gun was a half step away from being a mass murderer.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
This is perhaps OT, *but*--

Will it make a difference for one family to have a gun? Um, no, definitely not. Will it make a difference is 50% of Americans have one, are trained to use it properly, and are prepared to defend their families? Possibly.
What I think more likely, though, is that (if the government seriously oversteps its boundaries.... like, more than it already has) individual states would secede. It's not like it hasn't happened before. One of the purposes of a state militia (I know SC has one) is to protect the state from the federal gov't should the need arise. So... we would probably join the militia. My understanding is the members of the militia provide their own weapons (?). This is something I've only studied a bit.

Wow, this comes across as so crazily paranoid.







I definitely hope none of this ever happens-- sadly, I suspect we're more likely to just lose our Constitutional freedoms one bit at a time until my great-grandchildren live very differently than we do now.









I can follow your reasoning here. In WV, there is a state militia that has always maintained a good level of coordination. I have no first hand knowledge, but it is rumored that our state militia would be armed and "ready to fight" in a matter of 4 hours. I hope they are never needed, but I can see a future in which the militias might be necessary.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

the government talk reminds me of Jericho. I was surprised by how many guns and ammo everyone owned. I know, tv and the whole small town thing.

I think I'll just count on my state militia to arm me then.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FullMetalMom* 
Your child is WAY WAY WAY more likely to be killed by a swimming pool than a gun. I have guns, but my personal belief is that they should not be kept for personal defense. I second getting a baseball bat (a billy club is a great option too).

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but the person who said they keep their guns loaded (and its ok because they're out of the children's reach and the kids "know better") is being extremely irresponsible. That kind of thinking could end you up with a dead child (or neighbor's child).

I prefer my cast iron frying pan...

I agree about keeping the guns loaded. Kids don't have the understanding of cause and effect that adults do, and they climb.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

I wouldn't, but I am glad that some of my neighbors do. It's handy to have someone to call if you hit a dear and need it to be put down (I've never needed that but other neighbors have) and I'm sure there's other instances as well. But even if I didn't have someone to call if I needed to, I wouldn't own a gun.

OP: I'm a little confused.... are you tying to protect your chickens from animals or people? I've had lots of poultry through the years and a gun would have never been helpful that I can imagine. We have so many raccoons that I could not even come close to making a dent in their population. A good fence and coop is really what you need, in my opinion and experience


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm here's a great page for training dogs to be around chickens, works for any dog not just anatolian, I have pyranees mixes.
ETA I wouldn't try it with a lab or other retriever like someone else said, although it's probably possible to train those dogs to be around chickens it'll be a lot more work.

Thing is having dogs hasn't stopped the neighbors free range dogs from killing my animals, I've lost more chickens to other dogs then coyotes or anything else so for those instances I'm glad to have my guns. I'm in the country so there isn't really any animal control and the dogs that have come around weren't catchable, were usually a pit or rottie mix, and I wasn't going to wait for them to come back when my kids are outside playing (I'm not allways outside when my kids are) One of our neighbors even told us to make sure our daughter didnt get too close because their pit didn't like kids. They kept them in a radio fence and the dogs were often wearing out the batteries, so when I saw their dog out yet again it was shot. Wasn't too long after that their other pit got out and attacked our goat, that dog was also shot. Scaring them off doesn't work, there was one dog that dh shot a 12 gauge shotgun at from a distance we think a few of the pellets might have even hit it, it still came back and killed chickens. Another dog was shot with the deer rifle in the chest it managed to get away before I could get to it and it still came back!!! For the record I haven't shot every dog that's come around, if it has tags or I can figure out the owner I'll take it back to them assuming I can get it to come to me or if not then I'll let them know it's out and where it is.


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## veggiemomma (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 

OP: I'm a little confused.... are you tying to protect your chickens from animals or people? I've had lots of poultry through the years and a gun would have never been helpful that I can imagine. We have so many raccoons that I could not even come close to making a dent in their population. A good fence and coop is really what you need, in my opinion and experience









We would be trying to protect the chickens from animals. Possums, foxes, raccoons, and the neighbor's dogs are all very adept at burrowing under fences, so your ordinary fencing is not going to be working here.

We also will have to have a top on our chicken coop like a giant cage with nothing open because these animals can also climb and because of a large raptors population. We wanted a movable coop and chicken house so that the girls can get fresh grass to peck around on every day or so, so burying several feet of fencing is not realistic.


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## Staciemao (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks to everyone who is replying on this thread. My hubby wants a gun for Christmas and I have been struggling with how I feel about it.

I have been very pleased to see how much thought people put into their responses. So thanks again.


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

if the cage is small enough would a wire bottom work (although I realise the chickens would only be able to peck at the grass and wouldn't be able to scratch the ground)


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

I would never have a gun in my home. I refused to marry my dh until he got rid of his. Having a gun-free home would be much more important to me than having chickens as pets.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veggiemomma* 
We would be trying to protect the chickens from animals. Possums, foxes, raccoons, and the neighbor's dogs are all very adept at burrowing under fences, so your ordinary fencing is not going to be working here.

We also will have to have a top on our chicken coop like a giant cage with nothing open because these animals can also climb and because of a large raptors population. We wanted a movable coop and chicken house so that the girls can get fresh grass to peck around on every day or so, so burying several feet of fencing is not realistic.

Oh yes, I know it's not that simple.

What I think of as a "good" fence is pretty extreme but I still think it is worth the effort, for me anyway, because of the peace of mind. My dream coop/ chicken yard has: a buried fence (to prevent digging under), a netting to cover the top, a central coop, four separate fenced areas to rotate through, and a very secure outdoor "patio" area that the chickens could access from the coop so I wouldn't have to have someone letting them in and out if I was gone for a weekend.

Whoa, I can see that seems extravagant but a friend of mine has just that set up and she adding the fencing gradually and her chickens always have green grass







I'm personally not a fan of the mobile coop. I am in theory, but everyone I know who has one looses several chickens every year







I'm just not sure what good a gun would do you for protecting chickens. If your area is similar to mine, you would have to keep watch all night, every night because there are just so many chicken-loving critters.

Also, would you warn the neighbors that they should start being more watchful of their dogs (keeping them in their own yards) because you will be protecting your chickens?


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

Hopefully your neighbors will be better about it then mine. I've had at least two that told me to shoot their dogs if they came messing around my house.








Also most of the dog attacks were during the day, but I definetly agree with having a secure coup for night time, nobody wants to stay on watch all night.


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## CattiBrieDourden (Nov 11, 2008)

I grew up in homes with guns, mostly rifles and shotguns. We knew not to touch them and none of us ever did without my dad present.

My husband has a .45 handgun. It is locked up right now, so even if we needed it for home defense, it's pretty useless. I'm much happier with my big ol' hickory stick I keep by the side of my bed.









I would get a pellet gun if you are concerned about possums/raccoons getting into the chickens.


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## MamaJenese (Aug 14, 2006)

Could not live with a gun in my house. Just couldn't the idea of it makes me shake with fear.


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## laurelg (Nov 27, 2007)

(I haven't read most of the replies to this thread, so I am not responding to anyone in particular, just stating my position.)

DH and I own many guns. We are active in gun safety training, hunting, concealed carry, and general shooting sports. We own guns for self and home defense. We also believe in gun ownership as a political issue - but I am not going to discuss that here!









Our children will be raised around guns. I very much recommend the NRA's Eddie Eagle approach for _any_ child, raised in a home with guns or not. If you do not own guns, please do not make the mistake of assuming you can shelter your kids from them by ignoring the topic. Teach them to do the following if they ever find a gun: *STOP! Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.* Though we are avid gun owners and do not believe guns are "bad," we will teach our children the same lesson.

We will also allow them access to guns with adult supervision - we want to demystify guns and ensure they are not a taboo thing the kids feel like they have to try to sneak a peek at. As they get older and demonstrate their grasp on responsible gun handling and safety rules, they will earn the privilege of using their own guns. (Again, with adult supervision.)

We believe guns are tools, and just like any other tool, there is a learning curve, skill set, and responsibility associated with it.

I see a lot of fear and misinformation about guns and gun owners, and I work hard to change peoples' perceptions. I have helped several people get over fear of firearms just by showing them how, mechanically, the weapons work. I have helped diffuse misconceptions about people who own guns just by being who I am and being willing to discuss the issue rationally. It's obviously a hot-button issue for both "sides," and that often results in a tragic divide where educational and conversational opportunities are lost.

I do not think everyone should own a gun. While I think we all have a _right_ to, I don't think exercising that right should be considered unless you are aware of the responsibilities associated with what you're doing. This includes everything from ensuring safe storage and handling within your home, to undergoing proper training prior to carrying a weapon to ensure compliance with the laws, understanding of deadly force, weapon retention, etc., to proper care of your firearms to ensure their safe operation. It is a lot of work.

It is, however, also very rewarding and often a lot of fun. I am proud of the fact I am capable of defending myself, my family, my pets and my home. I am proud of the knowledge I have acquired and the work I have done to share that with others. I am proud of my ability to put food on my table (and as an omnivore, I do believe I should be willing to hunt if I am willing to consume meat). I enjoy the feeling of honing a skill and participating in activities that expose me to the great outdoors.

Yes, I am a gun owner, and proud of it.









*Last but not least, I would like to extend an offer to anyone who has questions about guns - from the very basics to where you can find safety training to laws to what models I recommend - to please, please contact me. I will be more than happy to share what I know, help you find information, or point you at those who can be of greater assistance. Thanks!*


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## KurumiSophia (Nov 28, 2007)

Absolutely. I've owned a gun before and I would do it again. When we lived in crackhead central, the knowledge that a.) I had that gun and b.) that I could get to it and use it kept me much calmer than when we didn't have it. As it was, I had already gotten in the habit of answering the door with a machete in hand.

Even now that I have a child, I'd own a gun all over again esp. since the bad elements are filtering into our neighborhood.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

First, I just want to say that though there is clearly some radical disagreement here, everyone thusfar has been very civil; I appreciate that very much.

Great post, Laurel! I will probably be taking you up on your offer for some gun info.

I also totally agree about the "willing to hunt if willing to eat meat." This is relatively new for me (so I have not participated in the actually hunting yet), but I have helped with butchering both deer and wild boar. The respect/appreciation I have for that meat in my freezer is SO different than what i "felt" (if I felt anything) back when I bought 10 lbs of Tyson whenever it was on sale.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
I SO agree with libertymom. I also believe that the ultimate (and by ultimate, I mean last) defense against a bad government is an armed citizenry. Our family is one mandatory vaccination/mandatory public schooling/mandatory "government guardianship"-type law away from moving to the Ozarks. I mean that very seriously. When and if we get there, I think we'll want more than a home alarm system.

ETA, more children under 5 die by drowning in swimming pools than in gun accidents.

This is why I own a gun.

Everyone speaks of home safety. I don't expect to ever be in a position to defend myself with a gun in my home. It could happen, but statistically is unlikely. Plus, we have an alarm system.

I own a gun because I believe in gun ownership. I think if the government takes away our right to bear arms, it means THEY are the ONLY ones with guns. Which means if they become corrupt, become a police state, citizens have NOTHING with which to defend themselves.

People say it can't happen in America ... look around, is my answer. Look at the laws that are being passed. Look at the military commissions act.

The constitution gives Americans the right to bear arms AGAINST an unethical government that is not serving the needs of the people.

This is why I have a gun.

Although, the gun and bullets are in separate safes, the safes are right next to one another. If I don't care about noise, I can load everything in under 2 minutes. I timed myself.







Always be prepared, I say.

Re: I also learned it as don't buy a gun unless you're prepared to kill someone. By this, they mean, it's pointless to own a gun in defense if all you're going to do is stand there while the "opponent" takes your gun away.

I took target practice, and keep up with it, because I don't want to kill anyone. But, I will shoot to injure in such a way that they can't get off the ground. And, if there's more than one, I am prepared to shoot to kill. In the area of self defense - your body naturally goes into flight or fight response. If you can't flee ... you only have one option: fight.

I hope I NEVER have to use it. But, if there ever comes a time where the government becomes so corrupt (as in way more than it is now, lol) and takes away the rest of our freedoms ... I'd hope there would be a few citizens to stand, armed, with me against such a possibility.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Sailor and Laurel and libertymom, maybe we should have a 2nd Amendment Supporters "tribe"


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## Contrariety (Jul 16, 2007)

I grew up in a house with guns for hunting and HATED them. My dad tried to teach me to use one and I was terrified of them. I was raised to respect them, though, and I knew *never* to touch them. I still am terrified, but I'm thinking about asking my dad for one of them to keep in storage for if the SHTF, I can have a source of protection and to... oh... I dunno... rustle cattle or something.









I am not wholly against guns. I am wholly against assault weapons. I see little/no place for hand guns... but I'm down with hunting rifles and shotguns for hunting and in extreme cases for protection. If you asked me three years ago, I would been in favor of an all out ban, but I'm changing my mind about that.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

oh, wanted to add, our local police department has free gun locks. They just give them to you.


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## laurelg (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
Sailor and Laurel and libertymom, maybe we should have a 2nd Amendment Supporters "tribe"









I was JUST going to say that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
oh, wanted to add, our local police department has free gun locks. They just give them to you.

A word to the wise: Be careful with those - I would not use them on anything you want rapid access to. If you are going to lock a self-defense weapon it is well worth the investment in a higher-tech safety device.

I say this because we picked up a few of those "free" gun locks at our local sheriff's office, and put one on my hunting shotgun. It would not unlock and had to be cut off with a Dremel tool. The lock was made in China, go figure!


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## Jesskathand (Dec 30, 2007)

My DH and I had a huge discussion about this 6 months ago. He wanted a gun to feel safe and to target shoot. I had never even seen a gun and the thought of having one in my house scared me.

We talked. A lot. Eventually I understood DH's view and he now has a gun and it is locked in a safe, and he goes target shooting with his uncle once a month.

I don't think I ever want to try shooting it. I am just not comfortable with it.

We are also fostering a huge dog who weighs 148 pounds. That makes me feel safe.

OP, I would do research and see what feels comfortable to you! Good luck!


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

ew no. i hate guns.


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## southernmommie (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurelg* 
(I haven't read most of the replies to this thread, so I am not responding to anyone in particular, just stating my position.)

DH and I own many guns. We are active in gun safety training, hunting, concealed carry, and general shooting sports. We own guns for self and home defense. We also believe in gun ownership as a political issue - but I am not going to discuss that here!









Our children will be raised around guns. I very much recommend the NRA's Eddie Eagle approach for _any_ child, raised in a home with guns or not. If you do not own guns, please do not make the mistake of assuming you can shelter your kids from them by ignoring the topic. Teach them to do the following if they ever find a gun: *STOP! Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.* Though we are avid gun owners and do not believe guns are "bad," we will teach our children the same lesson.

We will also allow them access to guns with adult supervision - we want to demystify guns and ensure they are not a taboo thing the kids feel like they have to try to sneak a peek at. As they get older and demonstrate their grasp on responsible gun handling and safety rules, they will earn the privilege of using their own guns. (Again, with adult supervision.)

We believe guns are tools, and just like any other tool, there is a learning curve, skill set, and responsibility associated with it.

I see a lot of fear and misinformation about guns and gun owners, and I work hard to change peoples' perceptions. I have helped several people get over fear of firearms just by showing them how, mechanically, the weapons work. I have helped diffuse misconceptions about people who own guns just by being who I am and being willing to discuss the issue rationally. It's obviously a hot-button issue for both "sides," and that often results in a tragic divide where educational and conversational opportunities are lost.

I do not think everyone should own a gun. While I think we all have a _right_ to, I don't think exercising that right should be considered unless you are aware of the responsibilities associated with what you're doing. This includes everything from ensuring safe storage and handling within your home, to undergoing proper training prior to carrying a weapon to ensure compliance with the laws, understanding of deadly force, weapon retention, etc., to proper care of your firearms to ensure their safe operation. It is a lot of work.

It is, however, also very rewarding and often a lot of fun. I am proud of the fact I am capable of defending myself, my family, my pets and my home. I am proud of the knowledge I have acquired and the work I have done to share that with others. I am proud of my ability to put food on my table (and as an omnivore, I do believe I should be willing to hunt if I am willing to consume meat). I enjoy the feeling of honing a skill and participating in activities that expose me to the great outdoors.

Yes, I am a gun owner, and proud of it.









*Last but not least, I would like to extend an offer to anyone who has questions about guns - from the very basics to where you can find safety training to laws to what models I recommend - to please, please contact me. I will be more than happy to share what I know, help you find information, or point you at those who can be of greater assistance. Thanks!*

Very well said. It is a _right_ even when not everyone can without their own beliefs about them. Education about them is key.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

We have a rifle. I don't know how to use it, but my husband goes hunting once in a great while.

It did come in handy when a raccoon was repeatedly breaking into our upstairs neighbor's apartment this summer. We chased it out one night, treed it, and then he got the gun and killed it. No more wild animals in the same apartment as toddlers.


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## blazer (May 6, 2007)

Yes, and Yes, but please take the time to educate yourself completely about your desciion and the responsibility of being a gun owner. I am usually a poster of few words but i did appreciate the information some of the other posters shared.


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## caiesmommy (Feb 26, 2007)

NOPE! NEVER...not even going to state the million reasons why


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## ashleep (Jul 20, 2004)

I totally agree with Laurel.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

interesting thread. i don't know if i would or not. i do believe that if you own a gun you have to know how to use it and be prepared to do so. I do not think owning a gun for protection alone is a good idea unless you go to target practice regularly. I do not think a gun is is like 'riding a bike' and i wouldn't want to test the theory.

i do think you need to take lessons.. and lessons past the basics. i think self defense is its own lesson when learning to use a gun. You really need to be comfortable with it. you also need to be confident that you would in fact shoot someone. it will do you no good at all to be standing there not shooting your gun while the guy you are pointing it at takes it from you. and pp musician dad i think said that statistically more people will have their guns taken from and used against them then the other way around.. this is true for people who have hand guns solely for protection.

i would make sure you and your husband know how to use it... well. i would also make sure the kids are familiar with it. If they are not familiar with it if they did happen to come across it they would be more curious. when kids now how to use guns safely they are far less likely to play with one. if they are familiar with guns and are able to use them safely they will have much more respect for what it can do. If you have a gun in your house i really do not think how and when to safely use a gun should be an abstract idea to anyone living there.

so basically that was a long winded way to say if your going to do it make sure your educated and safe!


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## libertymom (Jul 1, 2008)

I NEVER thought I'd own a gun, but knowing that if someone ever tries to hurt my children that I can protect them, is very comforting! And since our government has passed the Military Commision Act and The Patriot Act, I really feel safer with them







BUt that might be for a different thread!

I think it's funny how people are saying I am irresponsible for keeping loaded guns in the house yet the people who are saying they aren't afraid of guns and knew not to touch them growing up and knew how to be responsible with them are the ones who grew up with loaded guns in the house.


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## ashleep (Jul 20, 2004)

I have an honest question for those that are opposed to any kind of guns except for hunting.

Say a bad guy breaks into your home with the intent to harm you or your children. What is your plan to protect them?


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ashleep* 
Say a bad guy breaks into your home with the intent to harm you or your children. What is your plan to protect them?

Well, I'm not at all opposed to people owning guns for protection, I just don't want to myself.

My plan is pretty much the same as my plan for an alien abduction of my children- that is, I'll sit there and go "WTF is going on?????".

I'm not real worried about bad guys breaking into my house and trying to hurt me. Really. The odds of something bad happening to my children because of a home invasion are smaller than the odds of something bad happening to them because of a gun in the home. (and again we do have a gun in our home, so I'm not anti-gun at all)


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## skai (Apr 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
Well, I'm not at all opposed to people owning guns for protection, I just don't want to myself.

My plan is pretty much the same as my plan for an alien abduction of my children- that is, I'll sit there and go "WTF is going on?????".

I'm not real worried about bad guys breaking into my house and trying to hurt me. Really. The odds of something bad happening to my children because of a home invasion are smaller than the odds of something bad happening to them because of a gun in the home. (and again we do have a gun in our home, so I'm not anti-gun at all)









:

Where I live, it doesn't really happen. I don't think I've ever heard of a home invasion in my area. (And if it was common enough to warrant worry, I'd definitely move. Don't want to live with fear.)


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i live on the 3rd floor of an apt building that you need a coded thing to wave in front of a little box to unlock any door into a building. we have a lock on the door handle, a dead bolt, and a door chain. we always always always lock all three when we are home. (mostly b/c what the point if you don't lock them) the odds of someone breaking in are slim. our walls are paper thing so the neighbors not hearing is almost impossible.

If someone did break into my house with the intent to hurt DS i would probably lock us in the bedroom and push the dresser in front of the door them call the cops. if this was not a possibility it would depend. if he was armed with anything but a gun i would fight like hell. If someone is threatening my baby there is nothing i wouldn't do.. so i would either do what he wanted, talk to him and try to distract him (not as far fetched as one would think), or fight his sorry butt. it would depend on his intentions and what he wanted.. it would also have to be in the middle of the day b/c dp gets home around 4ish.


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## laurelg (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skai* 
Where I live, it doesn't really happen. I don't think I've ever heard of a home invasion in my area. (And if it was common enough to warrant worry, I'd definitely move. Don't want to live with fear.)

I just wanted to address this, because it's one of the common misconceptions I run into about gun owners/carriers.

I _don't_ live in fear. However, I also don't have some sort of false confidence gained from owning/carrying a gun. I don't usually do things I wouldn't do without a gun just because I have a gun - exceptions being things like going hunting, camping in bear country, etc.

But when it comes to day-to-day life, you'll never catch me saying - hey, I'll leave all the doors unlocked at night because we have a shotgun! Or - I'll walk through that dark parking garage alone and not paying attention, because I'm armed. I've actually found that my situational awareness and consideration of my surroundings is heightened when I'm armed - not to a point of paranoia by any means, but just being cognizant of what is going on around me, what possible threats might be, and how I would deal with them. As many have pointed out, introducing a firearm into an attack can be a very dangerous choice if you are not properly prepared to retain and use it - which means constant vigilance on the part of the carrier.

But, you have to understand, these things do become second-nature with proper practice and training. It is a mental and muscle memory thing, just like how you and your children buckle up whenever you get into a car, or you keep batteries in your smoke detectors, a fire extinguisher under your sink, and baking soda by the stove.

For me, and those I know who own and carry guns, they are just another tool we have chosen as a safety precaution, to make us better prepared for an unlikely event. It becomes as much a part of our normal routine as checking those smoke detector batteries or buckling that seatbelt is for you.


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## ~girlsmum~ (May 10, 2008)

I've almost been shot by a young boy who was a friend and went gun happy on a few people, that freaked me out! I was shown how to fire a 302 and it had a scope mount on it and when I fired it the gun recoiled and almost cracked my skull at my right eye. So with those 2 experiences I will never own a gun. I hope I can find another way to protect my children if the need should ever arise because it won't be a gun.


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## Freefromitall (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes.
We do. For home protection, and because dh is a marksmen and enjoys collecting antiques alongside the newest and best-est







lol

ETA: I would only get one if you are comfortable with the thought of using it. Not overjoyed at the thought, I don't think anyone ever is, but if you know that you can IF you HAVE to, kwim?
I would also take it out on the range, take a class, *know* how to use it and use it safely.
And last, but not least, I would get a shotgun. They are a very efficient weapon for someone who is not a talented/trained marksman.
A policeman friend of ours likes to say that the sound of a shotgun being racked, in his experience, makes more criminals surrender than a highly trained negotiator. I have no stats to back that up, it's just his opinion


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

The only guns in our house are hunting rifles and a shotgun. They all have trigger locks and live in a locked gun cabinet. The ammunition lives in a locked box elsewhere. My children know where the guns are kept and they know that if they want to look at them, they have only to ask. They are never, ever loaded in my home. When they are old enough, if they show an interest, dh will teach them how to care for and shoot them and will take them hunting with him.

I can't think of a situation in which I would own a handgun unless I suddenly decided to take up shark hunting







.

You don't need an armed society in order to have a polite society.

I have deadbolts and lights on motions sensors for home protection. If I was more concerned about it, I'd install a security system. Studies have shown that a loaded weapon is more likely to be used against a homeowner in the event of a break in.

This works for me. I don't think it's a one size fits all sort of thing.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *libertymom* 
We have 4 guns in the house. All loaded ready to shoot. They are kept high where kids can't reach and the shotgun (which, like pp said, is too heavy for the kids to even lift) stays under the bed and I can hardly rack it so I know it will be a long time before the kids can. The kids know not to touch the guns, but they also are not scared of them. All 3 of the kids learned to shoot last Thanksgiving. We didn't shoot anything but a tree stump, but we feel it is important to not be afraid of guns and not be curious about them either. That is when kids accidently shoot themselves or others. They know all the rules, kwim? And they know if they want to shoot, we will take them.
Yes, occasionally a kid gets a hold of a gun and shoots himself and the media makes a huge deal about it. Just like when a baby dies of SIDS and they were in bed with their parents they want to say co-sleeping is bad.

Anyway, an armed society is a polite society.

I also carry one whenever I am going to be out after dark. Or when I go running early in the am. How many times have you heard of women being killed while out jogging? I hear that ALL the time.

Wow. I live in a country where most of what you describe is illegal.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Air rifles and BB guns work very well for small vermin as well as raccoons, possums, foxes.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

No, I don't think I would ever have guns. I have had friends where a child was shot by a gun that was kept in the house and I could never take that chance. My kids are grown, but I have grandkids running around our house, playing hide and seek, etc., and I would be too afraid they would find the gun. I can't believe people have loaded guns in their homes with children. Do you guys tell your child's friend's parents that you have loaded guns when they come to play? My dad had a gun while I was growing up and while me and my sisters wouldn't go near it, my brother was fascinated and would sneak in and handle it frequently. I don't know if it was loaded or not, but my parents had no idea he did this, because they told us all to leave it alone. I guess that doesn't always work. In respect to home invasion, I'm 53 and have never had a problem come up that I would have needed a gun to protect myself, so I feel pretty safe with my gun-less life.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:

I think it's funny how people are saying I am irresponsible for keeping loaded guns in the house yet the people who are saying they aren't afraid of guns and knew not to touch them growing up and knew how to be responsible with them are the ones who grew up with loaded guns in the house.
I'm very comfortable with guns and have been around them my entire life. My dh knows I check his guns when he comes in and he always unloads them first. We do not bring loaded guns into our house. Ever. That was a rule my parents had and its a rule we will always have.


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## Sijae (May 5, 2006)

We have guns in the house. My DH has a concealed carry permit and wears a firearm every day. I have my own gun and keep it loaded near my bed and take it on trips if my DH is not with me. My children each own their own rifle (even the 6 year old) and know how to shoot them although they do not have access without supervision. I trust my kids around guns and feel comfortable having them around. We live an hour from town right now but when we move back to the city and my kids start having friends come over I will not keep my gun loaded and accessible (because I don't trust other people's kids). Although I'm certain my DH will continue to keep a loaded gun in a holster on his belt.

Laura


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## jtbuko (Sep 28, 2006)

No, they freak me out.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ashleep* 
I have an honest question for those that are opposed to any kind of guns except for hunting.

Say a bad guy breaks into your home with the intent to harm you or your children. What is your plan to protect them?

I leave. I take my kids and get out. So far, so good







.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laurelg* 
I just wanted to address this, because it's one of the common misconceptions I run into about gun owners/carriers.

I _don't_ live in fear. However, I also don't have some sort of false confidence gained from owning/carrying a gun. I don't usually do things I wouldn't do without a gun just because I have a gun - exceptions being things like going hunting, camping in bear country, etc.

I could be wrong, but I think what the other poster was saying wasn't that gun owners live in fear. But rather that if she lived somewhere where home invasion was a concern, she would just move instead of continuing to live somewhere where she needed to be afraid of/make plans for that situation.

Someone coming into my house to hurt me just isn't on my radar. I mean, heck, we never lock our door. We don't actually own a key for it.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Do those of you with lots of guns (especially with loaded guns) tell parents of your children's friends about them?

When I was little our neighbors had loaded guns in the house and I remember their son showing them to me and shooting one. Nothing happened, thank God, but I know my parents would have been livid if they knew about our neighbor's irresponsibility. These people were fairly wealthy and well respected in our community, by the way. Thinking about playing with a gun at their house sends shivers down my spine. I would be irate if my children played at someone's house who had loaded guns and I didn't know about it.

My dad hunted growing up and kept his guns separate from his ammo in a locked ceiling vault that he built. I know that most people aren't like my dad. There are too many fearful folks out there, too much paranoia. . . I don't want guns in my house now. I know that having a gun makes you more likely to be shot and that's enough for me. FWIW, I live in a not so great neighborhood and I still feel this way.


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## bodhicitta3 (Jun 19, 2006)

I feel confident I could use one if necessary but I worry about my young children getting it even if it is locked and unloaded. and really how practicalis it to have for protection if it is locked up an ammunition is locked up seperatly?

guns frighten me so they arent in our house.


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## Brown Nipples (Sep 27, 2007)

As some of you may already know I am a huge supporter of the second ammendment. Alas this thead is not at all what I was hoping for. Lol. I belive it is a very personal choice as to who should own a gun.

IMO if your not sure if you should and are the least bit concerned then you should not own one. As the old saying goes... Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

As for my family we own several rifles and shotguns. We do not own a handgun. If we did it would be a hunting type and not for personel defense. We keep them locked in a gun safe unloaded.

If you feel you need a gun for protection please take the time to learn about the weapon and its limitations. You owe it to yourself and others. Take a ccw class if your state offers it not only so you can carry it but so you can learn from other experienced gun owners. Thanks for reading. I'm always up for a clean 2nd ammendment debate if your interested. Just start the thead and ill be there. Lol.

Just so you know I am typing this via my blackberry perched in a tree bow in hand. So please forgive any spelling or grammer errors. Josh


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## gromero (Apr 14, 2008)

Yes....in fact we own several guns and shot guns.

Before I met dh I was very much against guns...I was terrified of them. But once I met dh, and he started teaching me about them and taking me to the range, all that fear left me. I was afraid of the unknown...I know it's cliche, but knowledge is power. I have taken several safety courses, self defense classes, we go on a frequent basis to the range, and dh is planning his first hunting trip for hopefully next year.

Just a little story here.....we used to live a bad neighborhood (wasn't bad when we moved there....but went downhill fast). Dh worked nights, so the gun was kept loaded at nights for me.....when he got home in the morning we unload it and lock the ammo up in seperate place. I am so grateful we did this about 2 years ago. I was sleeping in my room when all of a sudden I heard some pounding noises....it was someone slamming full force into my front door. I ran and got the kids and put them into my room, grabbed my gun and waited in the hallway with it pointed at the door, while on the phone with the police. I was terrified but at the same time I felt safe knowing I could protect my kids. I did yell that I was armed but I don't know if he heard me or not. The police showed up but he had ran off before they got there. Long story short......turns out that we weren't the first apartment that night he tried to get into (he did get in 1 other).....they found the guy, and he was a known gang member that had a history of breaking into homes....armed. I am beyond grateful that dh made sure we had a plan in place in case anything like this happened, grateful that I had a gun and that I knew what I was doing, and grateful that the police got there as quickly as they did. We moved that very week to a new place, but that memory will stick with me for a very long time.

Our dc know gun safety inside and out. We have even 'tested' them on gun safety. While at a family gathering at sil's house, we left a toy gun that looked very real, in the play room. We had one of those baby video monitors in there so we could watch what they did.....not only did my dc but my sil's kids did the very thing we taught them to do.....do not touch it, step away, and call for an adult. BUT....dh's twin sister, who is VERY against guns and has never taught her son any gun safety what so ever, kept trying to pick it up, even while my and sil dc told him not to. It was a forbidden fruit so to speak. That little test prompted sil to take a different stance on gun safety, thankfully.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

No. I think it's too dangerous to have them in a house with young kids. If I were in a dangerous area, I would consider other options.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *libertymom* 
I also carry one whenever I am going to be out after dark. Or when I go running early in the am. *How many times have you heard of women being killed while out jogging? I hear that ALL the time.*

Really? All the time? I _have_ heard some stories like that over the years, hardly all the time. But in the last couple weeks there have been at least 3 stories in NC&E about small children accidentally shot by their parents.

And I hear far more often about a husband shooting his wife in anger than I do about joggers being attacked and killed.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Actually, I have never heard of a woman getting killed while jogging in my area. Almost all shootings in my area are either domestic disputes, or drug related.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah I have never heard of it either.


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

Maybe jogger killing is worse in libertymoms area while gun accidents/abuse are worse in your area


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

No thankfully, gun accidents and deaths are *hundreds* times more likely in any similar sized U.S. city than where I live.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Around here it's the same, and our city is not a low crime area. But still, no joggers getting murdered, unless you could the man a few years back who was beaten to death for being gay.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I honestly have never heard of any murders in my city (Rio Rancho) and most of the death that makes the news in Albuquerque seems to be domestic violence.









Now, I've lived in some shady areas of Denver (Federal & Colfax) but the crime there related mainly to drugs. Never would have I dreamed of opening the door with a gun in my hand... (so, I wouldn't open the door to strangers there but still). If I felt like my family was truly in danger there, we would have peaced the F out!


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## sarafi (Feb 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gromero* 

Our dc know gun safety inside and out. We have even 'tested' them on gun safety. While at a family gathering at sil's house, we left a toy gun that looked very real, in the play room. We had one of those baby video monitors in there so we could watch what they did.....not only did my dc but my sil's kids did the very thing we taught them to do.....do not touch it, step away, and call for an adult. BUT....dh's twin sister, who is VERY against guns and has never taught her son any gun safety what so ever, kept trying to pick it up, even while my and sil dc told him not to. It was a forbidden fruit so to speak. That little test prompted sil to take a different stance on gun safety, thankfully.

This really spoke to me. I am very comfortable with guns, grew up with them in the house, took courses on safety, etc. When we stay with my parents, I know they are all over the house and my children know not to touch them. (They are kept locked, with ammo seperate for the most part, but there are some "show" guns that are not loaded and are out of reach)

My nephew on the other hand, has been taught that guns are "bad" and yet his mother still allows him to play with toy guns at my inlaws house. So guess which child pretends to shoot my children and terrorizes them every year? My daughter still talks about the last visit.









Even if you shield your children from all "real" guns, they are going to learn about guns and shooting from their friends and from school. I would encourage all who are afraid of guns, to please take the time to teach your children gun safety--and to educate yourselves as well! Do it online or go to a hunters safety course.

I can guarantee that if there is a gun "accident" in my family it will be on the side of the family that is afraid of guns, and has allowed their children to view them as toys rather than weapons. I have already had one niece shoot herself right above the eye with a BB gun, that she had no business playing with. (She healed fine, but this side of the family still doesn't seem to have learned the lesson about letting children play with guns.)


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:

Even if you shield your children from all "real" guns, they are going to learn about guns and shooting from their friends and from school. I would encourage all who are afraid of guns, to please take the time to teach your children gun safety--and to educate yourselves as well! Do it online or go to a hunters safety course.
My thoughts exactly. My sil won't allow guns in their house, even though my brother hunts fairly often, and both of their children have already taken a gun safety course.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I wouldn't allow guns in my house not b/c I'm "afraid of guns" and hiding or sheltering my child, but b/c I don't think it's safe to have guns and kids in the same house. Period. It's not as if kids haven't gotten to guns their parents thought they surely couldn't.


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## alaskaberry (Dec 29, 2006)

First of all, what kind of gun is he getting for you? Personally I think that something like a rifle is more likely to strike fear into someone than a handgun...But I also live in Alaska and the common response to someone coming onto your property with malicious intent is to grab a shotgun. I never thought about owning a gun until I got one for Christmas (a rifle, which dp uses more than I do) a few years back. My DP is also gone a LOT (he works in Prudhoe Bay), and we don't even have a dog... The guns just make me feel safer... Yes you can laugh, but I do.

The benefits (imho) of a handgun:
*can be stuffed under the mattress or locked bedside drawer for faster, um, operation. Bullets can also go in the drawer. Put the key somewhere safe and out of reach of the kids.

We keep ours locked away but when DP is gone I sleep with his .38 under the mattress just in case (unloaded). DS is too little to care. When he is older I will have to come up with another option but until then I do what I can.


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## ashleep (Jul 20, 2004)

A link for your viewing pleasure. Complete w/ sources for stats.









http://www.tincher.to/myths.htm


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## ashleep (Jul 20, 2004)

Also. if you want to dbl check some stats, enter your search criteria here. Under advanced options at the bottom, you can check specific age groups.

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

in all races the number one cause of death is people 35-44 is unintentional poisoning. wtf?


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ashleep* 
A link for your viewing pleasure. Complete w/ sources for stats.









http://www.tincher.to/myths.htm

from that link

Quote:

MYTH: Twelve children are killed with guns each day.
*FACT: Half of the people that politicians count as "children killed with guns" were actually legally adults.* The gun murder rate started falling when crack cocaine started going out of style in 1990. In 1997, 2284 children aged 0-17 years were killed with guns, most of them teenagers. That is 6 per day. In 1998, the number dropped to 1971, still mostly teenagers. That is 5 per day. The age distribution of child gun deaths tracks the age distribution of child drug dealers.
Source: Centers For Disease Control
Ahh well 5 kids a day. That's OK then eh?


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## laurelg (Nov 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
Ahh well 5 kids a day. That's OK then eh?










I think we'd all agree that _any_ child killed with a gun - either by accident or violent design - is tragic. But, the reason that statistic is disturbing to _me_ is because of the propaganda implications of skewing statistics - especially when they involve children.

To put it in perspective: Not too many people around here on MDC appreciate it when ACOG or the AMA skew homebirth statistics and pull the 'dead baby card' to suit their purposes.

While firearms and child safety is absolutely an issue _every_ gun owner and parent should consider - whether or not the gun owner and parent are one and the same - I think it's an issue that should be examined honestly. Including an armed 18-year-old gangbanger killed in a shootout and an 8-year-old killed in a preventable gun accident in the same set of statistics _isn't_ honest.


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

Haven't anything but OP but no, no, no.

My father was cleaning his gun in another room, with the knowledge that it wasn't loaded (he is former military so you'd think he's know) when it went off through his wall into mine as I innocently studied for a chemistry final. It missed me, barely. I thought he'd finally lost it and was going to do us all in. heh....heh...cricket... *ahem*

Now, I am a single mom living in a fairly urban neighborhood. I've never even considered a gun. I do, however have a big baseball bat in my closet.

IMO, for a gun to be effective, it has to be fairly close at hand. If it is, it's a danger to my children. And not at all worth it.

Carry on with your discussion.


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## PTmorgan (Oct 23, 2007)

Wow! Lots of interest in this topic. A couple thoughts:

1) I'd recommend a variety of methods for ensuring your family's safety, not just one method. A dog, alarm system, gun if you wish, security lighting, self-defense classes, fences, effective locks.

2) I second a PP's suggestion to go to a gun range. Do a lot of shooting. See how you feel. You may have a reaction you haven't anticipated.

3) If you do choose to have a gun, do ALL the safety things. Classes, gun safes, locks, unloaded, children trained. PPs have said a lot of good ideas.

4) Have a gun only if you are willing to kill someone. I know that if I were faced with protecting my baby, "mama bear" would have no problem choosing. I don't mean to sound flippant. I'm a black belt in karate, and have had to do a lot of thinking about the consequences if I'm forced to defend my family.

5) If you can possibly manage it, I'd recommend martial arts classes as well. Many times we are so taken unaware that we wouldn't have time to prepare the gun, or we are not in the same area as the gun. Martial arts also teach you to work WITH adrenalin, and not freeze up.

6) Growing up on a farm with chickens: If a predator comes along, let the chickens go. You can try scaring them off. Simply by turning on a light or yelling at them will work. Besides, if the predator doesn't flee, you are more likely to shoot a chicken than the predator! In my experience, of all the times the raccoons go into the chicken house, we were unaware anything had happened until the morning.

BTW, we don't have any guns. I'm not sure we have the discipline to maintain all the required safety procedures that I would place on us. Becasue I'm not sure, that means we're not ready for it! Good luck!


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

As long as you're responsible about it, I have no problem at all with guns. DD's dad is a cop and he has a gun on his hip all the time. I keep guns in the house. I live alone and I get really freaked out sometimes.

OP, if you're still considering a gun:

1.) Get yourself some shooting lessons. Don't be afraid of guns. Learn to clean them, shoot them, etc. Become familiar with them. If your kids are old enough (sorry I can't remember), take them to the shooting range with you and teach them about safe handling, etc. As soon as dd's old enough (whenever she shows interest, I guess) her dad and I will teach her about guns, how to handle them, safety, etc.

2.)Select an area (or areas) in your home to keep the gun(s)--high, out of reach from kids. Just like a fire escape, plan a "burglary" plan of action. If you/kids are suddenly awoke by someone breaking the glass on your kitchen door, have a plan of where/what to do. The fears you have--whether it's someone breaking in though the kitchen or living room or whatever--have a plan of action for each situation. It could be as simple as running out the front door to a neighbors house or heading for your safe spot inside the house where the gun is kept. Just have a plan of action.

DD's dad is a cop and I'm going to school to be a cop (re-enrolling this spring to finish degree). He's paranoid. I'm paranoid. Having a plan of action isn't a bad thing. Cops practice life saving strategies by playing situations over in their heads all the time. They role play different scenarios of things that could happen (or things that have happened to fallen officers) and make a plan on how they will win the battle. I do the same, but different circumstances. I will probably never have to use my guns...but if I do need to, I'll be glad I have them.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BugMacGee* 
My father was cleaning his gun in another room, with the knowledge that it wasn't loaded (he is former military so you'd think he's know) when it went off through his wall into mine as I innocently studied for a chemistry final. It missed me, barely. I thought he'd finally lost it and was going to do us all in. heh....heh...cricket... *ahem*

Who was at fault here, the gun or your dad? Your father misused, horribly, a tool and that leaves only him to blame. If I'm chopping veggies and I lop off my finger, I certainly don't blame the knife.

Again, please do NOT leave guns where they are accessible to anyone, no matter how "well-hidden" or "out of reach" you may think they are. Invest in a gun safe and use it. *PLEASE*.


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## Annalisa84 (Nov 18, 2008)

No, but they're as good as illegal here. I can't imagine owning one and know nobody who does.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum* 
Do those of you with lots of guns (especially with loaded guns) tell parents of your children's friends about them?

We don't have a kid yet. But, we plan on saying that we have guns.

We're both a bit reclusive, and don't really enjoy other people's kids ... so we're actually hoping this will deter parents from bringing their kids over.










No ... actually, I'm ashamed to say, that we are hoping it will deter play dates and all that jazz. I just hope we don't get one of those extroverted, social kids. It would be just our luck!

Re: injuries with guns, kids getting into guns, people shooting each other, etc., .... NONE of these incidents are accidents or mistakes. They're prime examples of lax or irresponsible gun ownership.

A gun is a tool. Just like a knife is a tool. Just like a car is a tool.

I have read quite a few newspaper articles on parents running over their children while backing out of the driveway. Or parents leaving their newborns in the car, and suffocating them in that way.

Yet ... most of us are OK with cars.

Conversely, look up the statistic on knife injuries. Yet, we all have knives in the kitchen.

A gun is just like any other tool. And it is NOT the gun, alone, that will injure or kill. It is the person or child who gets their hands on it. And, that, my friends, is NEVER an accident. It is, as I said, ALWAYS a lack of responsibility (or just plain laziness) on the part of the gun owners.

In fact, I would say, kids playing with toy guns just increases the risk of a gun accident. If they were to ever come across a real gun - they would point and shoot it just as they do with toys.

I was never allowed to play with toy guns as a kid precisely for this reason. Because guns are NOT toys ... even fake ones. They do not teach the seriousness of life/death when it comes to such a tool.

Incidentally, I wasn't allowed to play with fake knives either. Because it teaches a false sense of security ... then a kid sees a real knife and starts playing with it.

Generally, I find the idea of weapons as toys abhorrent. More so than owning a real gun responsibly, and teaching children about guns - safety, responsibility, and target practice (for those of us who own).


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah and car owners are required to be licensed and insured. I think gun owners should be as well.

I've looked at the actual raw numbers of gun injuries and deaths in the U.S. in an academic setting. It is chilling.

The knife comparison is silly. It would be pretty difficult and rare to accidentally kill yourself or someone else with a knife, difficult to kill many people at once with a knife, and intended victims would have a much better chance at getting away, defending themselves, or recovering from a stabbing.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum* 
Do those of you with lots of guns (especially with loaded guns) tell parents of your children's friends about them?

we dont qualify for the loaded gun ownership category b/c the guns we own are unloaded (most are in a safe downstairs in the basement...a very large safe) and one is in our bedroom in a safe.

as far as telling other parents...yes, almost everyone taht comes in our home knows that we are gun owners (really, its DP who is the gun owner..i am only by extension).

it used to be the first Q i would ask parents before allowing my children to visit w/o me. I feel I owe it to parents to inform them of that issue, as I would have liked to have been informed myself (even though most do not ask).


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
Who was at fault here, the gun or your dad? Your father misused, horribly, a tool and that leaves only him to blame. If I'm chopping veggies and I lop off my finger, I certainly don't blame the knife.

Again, please do NOT leave guns where they are accessible to anyone, no matter how "well-hidden" or "out of reach" you may think they are. Invest in a gun safe and use it. *PLEASE*.

Funny question. I would say the gun. Or at least the presence of a gun. If he had been sharpening a knife, it would hardly have gone off, gone through a wall and almost hit a child, now would it?

He made a mistake, but had he not had a gun, it would not have been so dangerous.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Guns are tools yes, but what are they for? What is their purpose? To kill, to injure, to maim, to destroy. The purpose of knives is a bit more diverse.

I'm not anti-gun, but I can't deny what the purpose of a gun is.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
Guns are tools yes, but what are they for? What is their purpose? To kill, to injure, to maim, to destroy. The purpose of knives is a bit more diverse.

I'm not anti-gun, but I can't deny what the purpose of a gun is.

Just this. And for the first person who says 'Well, and target practice', well - that's still destroying something.

And no, I will never, ever allow a gun to enter my home.

All this talk of home invasion, and what would you do... perhaps I live in a sheltered small town life, but that's never even crossed my mind. I can't imagine living with such fear or concerns or thoughts.

So glad I'm in Canada. And before this ends up like threads of the past - no we don't need the US to protect ourselves.


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
Who was at fault here, the gun or your dad? Your father misused, horribly, a tool and that leaves only him to blame. If I'm chopping veggies and I lop off my finger, I certainly don't blame the knife.

Again, please do NOT leave guns where they are accessible to anyone, no matter how "well-hidden" or "out of reach" you may think they are. Invest in a gun safe and use it. *PLEASE*.

I don't care who's fault it was. It wouldn't have happened in the absence of a gun, bottom line.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:

Do those of you with lots of guns (especially with loaded guns) tell parents of your children's friends about them?
We don't keep loaded guns in our house. Guns get unloaded before they come inside and get put away. In this area, I assume everyone has guns in their house. My kids go to a very select few homes and I feel comfortable with the safety measures they have taken. If someone asks, I'll tell them where the guns are, locked with trigger locks. Ammo is stored in a box in our storage room. It would take quite some time to get a gun out and loaded, not to mention getting past the trigger lock.


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

We have guns in the house because DH grew up on a farm and shot vermin with them, and his dad would go deer hunting. They are in cases, locked with trigger locks, stored unloaded in the attic. DH keeps the ammunition completely separate from them on another floor of the house. If a burglar came in, they would be 100% useless.

Guns have ONE purpose: killing things. When our son is older, DH will take him to a local shooting club, go to gun safety classes, and supervise his learning. For now though, we keep them in a place where they aren't easily accessible.

If you don't feel totally comfortable with having a gun in the house, why not get a couple dogs and a sturdy chicken coop instead of a gun? The dogs can guard the chickens and the house, and dogs are the #1 deterrent for burglars.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I absolutely would.

I don't have one now, but in the future I probably will again. At the moment don't trust the kids to stay away from one. I got rid of mine when my ds was starting to crawl. They haven't exercised good judgment with their _cell phones_ in the past year, so I hardly think having a _firearm_ in the house would be an intelligent choice on my part.

My ex-dh bought it for me when I was working nights, and in later years after we were divorced it gave me a feeling of security when I had a stalker. On one occasion I scared off a guy who was following me when I turned around with my hand on it inside my purse...I didn't have to say a word, or even show it to him, just the gesture and the way I was standing made my point and he spun on his heels and walked back the way he'd come. He had followed me for quite some time from store to store in the mall, (sometimes standing right behind me while I stood in line to pay for items) and when he followed me out to the parking lot, _that was it,_ I wasn't going to wait until we got all the way to my car, or to a dark corner.







: This was during the same time I was being stalked, and let's just say I had little patience for that sort of thing. In approximately 12 years of gun ownership that is the only time I can recall having it in my hand with the intention of possibly having to use it to defend myself (other than keeping it by the bed until I moved far far away from my stalker. And I had 2 chows)

I feel like where I live now, there is _very little_ need for a person to carry a gun, but I'd like to have one on hand at home since I live in a sparsely populated area and you never know how long it might take for the police to arrive. We only recently got phone lines, so for a while there was the problem of not being _able_ to even call 911 because our cells didn't have reception at our house.


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## filiadeluna (Oct 2, 2007)

Nope. My husband owns one, and I'm not entirely comfortable with it even though his dad was a police officer, so he's well trained. I would never have one for myself. I am very against guns, mainly because I feel that if we did have an intruder they may use it against us. Also, I don't want it to be anywhere near where children can get a hold of it.

I _second_ the dog thing, unless you are allergic or don't have time to take care of one. Dogs with loud barks (even if they aren't the biggest dog) will often frighten away intruders.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Yeah and car owners are required to be licensed and insured. I think gun owners should be as well.

You have to be licensed and registered to own a gun. If you carry it as a concealed weapon, it requires additional licensing.

Quote:

I've looked at the actual raw numbers of gun injuries and deaths in the U.S. in an academic setting. It is chilling.
So is the amount of teenage drunk driving accidents. Actually, so is the number of car accidents in general. Far surpasses the amount of deaths by guns.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
Guns are tools yes, but what are they for? What is their purpose? To kill, to injure, to maim, to destroy. The purpose of knives is a bit more diverse.

I'm not anti-gun, but I can't deny what the purpose of a gun is.

Well, the purpose can also be to get food.







:

My personal purpose is to support the constitutional right to bear arms. I think there will come a day when the government has taken away ALL our freedoms ... and the only recourse left will be to defend yourself against that which was supposed to protect you.

Re: target practice (I forgot who mentioned that this is destroying something) - I meant target practice with an inanimate object!!!! I don't go to the gun range to shoot at live things. In fact, most gun ranges have inanimate objects ONLY.

The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.

This is, of course, an extreme example. He can go for less fatal parts of the body.

But, my dog and I, also do awareness programs (in terms of rescues, buying pets, etc.) in schools. There, he's the most gentle dog ever as children come up to pet him.

He's also in SAR, and I'm hoping we'll be the second youngest dog ever to qualify. Point is, one day, he could find lost people.

My point is - the choice is up to YOU on how the tools in your life are to be used.

You can use them lazily and without responsibility. It only takes ONE bout of laziness for a tragedy. I repeat - no such thing as mistakes here. Only lax ownership. And this includes pet ownership as well, incidentally. Same parallels really. Or you can choose not to use some tools - which is cool.







Unless we start campaigning to end our right to bear arms, of course, lol.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
You have to be licensed and registered to own a gun. If you carry it as a concealed weapon, it requires additional licensing.

So is the amount of teenage drunk driving accidents. Actually, so is the number of car accidents in general. Far surpasses the amount of deaths by guns.

Well, the purpose can also be to get food.







:

My personal purpose is to support the constitutional right to bear arms. I think there will come a day when the government has taken away ALL our freedoms ... and the only recourse left will be to defend yourself against that which was supposed to protect you.

Re: target practice (I forgot who mentioned that this is destroying something) - I meant target practice with an inanimate object!!!! I don't go to the gun range to shoot at live things. In fact, most gun ranges have inanimate objects ONLY.

The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.

This is, of course, an extreme example. He can go for less fatal parts of the body.

But, my dog and I, also do awareness programs (in terms of rescues, buying pets, etc.) in schools. There, he's the most gentle dog ever as children come up to pet him.

He's also in SAR, and I'm hoping we'll be the second youngest dog ever to qualify. Point is, one day, he could find lost people.

My point is - the choice is up to YOU on how the tools in your life are to be used.

You can use them lazily and without responsibility. It only takes ONE bout of laziness for a tragedy. I repeat - no such thing as mistakes here. Only lax ownership. And this includes pet ownership as well, incidentally. Same parallels really. Or you can choose not to use some tools - which is cool.







Unless we start campaigning to end our right to bear arms, of course, lol.

What does licensing entail? I've never heard of it. Does it vary state to state?

I still think there should be insurance for the same reason we have car insurance.

The point about the gun accidents and deaths in the U.S. is that it is disproportionately high compared to most other developed countries. It is sickening.

Do you actually think that you could protect yourself or your family from the government of the United States with a gun? Seriously? This is 1776. If the government comes to the point of taking away all your freedoms, do you think you can overcome that with a gun? I don't understand that paranoia.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 

Well, the purpose can also be to get food.







:


I'm curious as to how you'd do that without killing something.

Even of you're shooting apples off a tree, you're still destroying something. I wasn't solely referring to living things. The purpose of a gun is to cause damage. This is not exclusive to things that are alive.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 

The dog thing - it's an interesting point. My dog is more dangerous than my gun when it comes to an intruder. I have a GSD who has been extensively trained by me. If I give the command, he'll go for the throat. He'll stop ... holding his mouth open over a person's throat. And then he'll wait. If the person struggles ... one word from me, and it will end very badly for said person's throat.



I know someone who couldn't use her dog as protection from her violent ex, because it had been 'their' dog...so the gun sort of became a necessity in her eyes.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I know someone who couldn't use her dog as protection from her violent ex, because it had been 'their' dog...so the gun sort of became a necessity in her eyes.










Why?

We used to have 2 border collies. When my son was a newborn, I locked myself out of my parent's house with him. I was really upset and agitated and the dogs milled around me whining, upset. When my father finally showed up with the keys to let me in the dogs wouldn't let him near me. This man raised these dogs from pups, but it didn't matter to them. In my agitated and vulnerable state their only thought was to protect me and my baby. If he'd grabbed for me or had tried to harm me in any way (not that he would havem but if he had) I know they would have attacked him. Dogs are smarter than guns.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
Why?

We used to have 2 border collies. When my son was a newborn, I locked myself out of my parent's house with him. I was really upset and agitated and the dogs milled around me whining, upset. When my father finally showed up with the keys to let me in the dogs wouldn't let him near me. This man raised these dogs from pups, but it didn't matter to them. In my agitated and vulnerable state their only thought was to protect me and my baby. If he'd grabbed for me or had tried to harm me in any way (not that he would havem but if he had) I know they would have attacked him. Dogs are smarter than guns.

This one wasn't, either that or he was afraid of him. He used to beat the [email protected] out of her while the dog was there. And this was a pitt.

My female chow, otoh, knocked my stalker right to the ground once, but she was so unreliable/unstable I still felt safer with my gun.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
What does licensing entail? I've never heard of it. Does it vary state to state?

I think it does vary from state to state.

To cary a concealed weapon (CCW), some states require a training course. You learn to shoot, clean, arm, disarm, and various common sense rules for gun ownership. And you have to pass their qualifications, which means you need to actually hit the target, as opposed to firing wild shots every where.

I believe Vermont and Alaska are the only states who let just anyone carry a concealed weapon - no qualifications necessary.

You also have to do a background check to even own a gun - at least in the state where I got mine this was true. But, I think it must be true across the board as felons can't own guns. And how would they know you're a felon without a background check?

And you have to apply for a permit to own a gun (I think this is where they do the background check).

Quote:

Do you actually think that you could protect yourself or your family from the government of the United States with a gun? Seriously? This is 1776. If the government comes to the point of taking away all your freedoms, do you think you can overcome that with a gun? I don't understand that paranoia.
No, of course not. But, I could shoot enough of them to escape out of my home, and out of the country.

Conversely, I'd go down fighting - which is better (in my mind) than going down by hiding in the closet.

A better scenario would be for me to get together with other gun owners - then, we'd stand a chance against an unconstitutional government. Hence why a lot of people who are members of the NRA feel strongly about gun ownership. When the government ends our freedoms ... we'll all get together.









It's not paranoid - it's smart thinking. If you don't keep the government accountable, and working for YOU - the government becomes someone who passes the military commissions act, or PATRIOT.

It's also the principle of the point - we have the right to bear arms against a corrupt government. This is given to us by the constitution. When the government is the only one with guns you have 2 things happen: good people have no guns, bad guys have lots of guns (black market, much like the drug situation now), and the government can do whatever they want with their guns. And that doesn't necessarily mean protecting its citizens.

I'm cool with people not wanting to own guns. It's not for everyone. I just don't want to see my freedom to do so disappear.









Re: destruction (I forgot the poster who mentioned this) ... sorry, I thought you meant killing humans. I don't see the difference between buying a piece of steak at the supermarket and going out and using your own "tool" to get the food. Or picking an apple versus shooting an apple (applesauce anyone? lol).

Which is why I didn't connect your destruction idea. As when I think of destruction .. I think of killing another person. Whereas using your gun as tool for food seems normal/natural to me. And pretty much the equivalent of eating meat from the supermarket. It's just that someone else has done the "dirty job" for you there.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.


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## sept15lija (Jun 21, 2008)

Nope, I'd never ever ever own a gun. I'm uncomfortable around them, and don't want to be around them. At all.

I don't feel I need a gun to keep my family safe...we live in a safe community. And I don't feel I need a gun to keep my government in line, either.

OP - Hope you find a good solution to keep your chickens safe, whether it be with a gun or not!


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead* 
I'm curious as to how you'd do that without killing something.

Even of you're shooting apples off a tree, you're still destroying something. I wasn't solely referring to living things. The purpose of a gun is to cause damage. This is not exclusive to things that are alive.

If you're going to define "damage" that broadly, then everything you can do with a knifes qualifies as well.


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