# Sick to my stomach over the whole Babywise thing...



## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm just so sad, angry and even confused that this is still even out there...

A friend of mine is trying to sleep train her four month old. She's reading Babywise, and really thinks it will work if she just gives it enough time. Several of her friends are telling her that it is the best thing they ever did as a parent and she is so hopeful that it will help. I've offered some of my advice but she clearly thinks my parenting style is so out-there because of all the AP things I do. (I'm actually pretty main-stream as far as AP goes!) I know she takes my advice with a grain of salt.

So I did a little internet search of Ezzo and came up with SO MANY recommendations for why not to follow his advice. I just can't believe there are people out there who believe in his sleep advice. And I can't believe he has somehow connected it to religion and made it seem godly.

Ugh ugh ugh. I'm just so sick thinking about all those babies who are being put through this. And sick thinking that there are parents out there who blindly follow the advice. If they follow what Ezzo says, what other things are they doing that feel wrong yet they do because they think it is the "right" thing to do???


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## Vancouver Mommy (Aug 15, 2007)

I know. I sold a baby back carrier on Craigslist the other day and delivered it to the purchaser who lives near me and had a 3 mo old baby. I could hear the babe screaming in another room while I was there and she said "yeah, he does that for 20 or 30 minutes and then he falls right to sleep". I nearly puked. Later I wished that I'd torn up her check and taken the carrier home with me, but I was in such shock that I just left.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

doesn't ezzo have a less than ideal relationship with his kids? maybe buy her a less cruel book on nighttime parenting to give her another option.


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## amberg007 (Jul 15, 2008)

enlighten me...what is this "babywise" theory?


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## Loralz (Feb 20, 2009)

I read through the Ezzo book so that I could see exactly what he said. I must say that SIL and I had a great time with it. AIyiyi! For my friends that are Ezzo happy, I just tell them that I read the book and also found a lot of great info on ezzo.info.


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## sept15lija (Jun 21, 2008)

Babywise is all about scheduling your baby...scheduled feeds, letting your baby to learn to "self-soothe" at insanely young ages...I must admit I haven't read the book though, and I've read that the updated versions aren't quite as extreme, but still. Not good! Most of my friends & family sleep train, it's such a common thing. It makes me so sick. I always think - if their 3 or 4 year old came to them and said "mommy, I'm scared and I need to cuddle with you" would they say "no, go back to bed!!"??? (God, maybe they would...who knows)...but if their infant is crying and basically saying the same things without words, they're trying to manipulate you.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Every time I go into the bookstore, I take the Ezzo books out of the baby section and hide them in some random place where nobody with a baby is likely to be browsing. It's very therapeutic


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## UpsyDaisy (Apr 16, 2009)

so sad


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## UpsyDaisy (Apr 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
Every time I go into the bookstore, I take the Ezzo books out of the baby section and hide them in some random place where nobody with a baby is likely to be browsing. It's very therapeutic

















: woohoo I do the same at the library!! They are sick of me I took the books to the lender and told them to trash them as they were just awful books !!


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## lisavark (Oct 27, 2007)

OP, you should give your friend some of the information that's out there about Ezzo. Babywise is the *only* parenting advice book that's ever been condemned by the AAP. There are lots of statistics on why it's bad for babies and especially for breastfeeding---lots of problems with failure to thrive due to the babies not getting enough milk (read: starving). I think that anybody who sees the information and research will think twice about practicing it. It isn't just AP opinions that go against it; even mainstream peds will tell you not to follow Babywise. It's just plain bad.


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## georgiegirl1974 (Sep 20, 2006)

Can you tell her that the AAP is against it? That is what I tell anyone I know who has mentioned the book.

I've also hidden Babywise at Barnes and Noble.


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## haurelia (Mar 12, 2009)

I love that folks are hiding the book...I'm going to do this from now on too! If for no other reason than snarky pleasure.

I've been reading/posting on another site sometimes; there was a thread about STTN, where a mom advocated Babywise and two moms chimed in that they liked it!! And that it seemed fine to do!! I was aghast, and responded lengthily. I don't think that they understand why it's wrong to even think that just because they possible *could* train a baby to STTN at 6 weeks (or whatever) doesn't mean they *should*.

I think that a lot of non-AP parenting choices seem to be about the dominant cultural expectation that families get "back to normal" (whatever that is) as soon as possible after the birth of a baby. It also seems to be about selfishness on the part of some parents; like, I just need down time without the baby, whenever I decide it's time.

Hello? You signed up to be a parent, that means your kids' needs come first until they're able to meet their needs themselves...especially as newborns.
I realize that we all need to meet our own needs too, but sometimes one has to juggle that, especially with a newborn. Maybe you need 9 hours of sleep per 24 hours...you don't necessarily get that all in one chunk!

I am saddened to think of the vast number of kids that are having harm done to them on purpose in our country...it's even worse to think that some parents are doing unintentional harm while the think they're teaching a lesson, or doing something normal that everyone else is (i.e. CIO, Babywise, etc).

Agh!







:


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## cville-rn (Feb 17, 2009)

I know I am late to this thread, but had to chime in.

A co-worker gave be Babywise when I was pregnant. She warned me that some of the stuff he said was pretty out there but that the info on scheduling was pretty helpful to her. I read the whole thing cover to cover and totally bought into the whole "baby on a schedule" nonsense. I would go on and on to my mom about how great the book was and how I was going to use it when the baby was born.

Then baby came. I instantly became a BF'ing on demand, co-sleeping, baby wearing mama. THANK GOD I listened to my maternal instincts instead of that book. I think it is criminal that he is allowed to print suggestions that are so detrimental to a baby's development. I cringe every time I see it at Barnes and Noble.

Just my experiance with it.


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cville-rn* 
Then baby came. I instantly became a BF'ing on demand, co-sleeping, baby wearing mama. THANK GOD I listened to my maternal instincts instead of that book. I think it is criminal that he is allowed to print suggestions that are so detrimental to a baby's development. I cringe every time I see it at Barnes and Noble.

Thank goodness!

AP seems so instinctual to me but I often wonder how I'd have parented if I had never seen anyone BF or cosleep or practice GD. It is so refreshing to read that despite the fact that you thought it was the best idea pre-baby, your instincts kicked in.

I am totally going to start hiding the book in book stores when I see it. What a great idea!!!!


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

so many people I know use babywise, and have suggested that I do the same..









i would like to read it, just to see what it says, but i refuse to buy it, and i don't want to be seen with it!


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## cville-rn (Feb 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
Thank goodness!

AP seems so instinctual to me but I often wonder how I'd have parented if I had never seen anyone BF or cosleep or practice GD. It is so refreshing to read that despite the fact that you thought it was the best idea pre-baby, your instincts kicked in.

I am totally going to start hiding the book in book stores when I see it. What a great idea!!!!

Ya it was funny. My son didn't even sleep in the bassinet in the hospital. It just felt right to have him next to me in bed. I was SO against co-sleeping before that too.

I think women in our society have this message of insecurity drummed into them by people like Ezzo. This idea that we have no idea what we are doing. That we need step by step instructions on how to mother. It is ridiculous.

If we were just taught to embrace our natural instincts as mothers people like Ezzo would not stand a chance.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

What really makes me sick is that people seem to think it's "what's best" for every baby. My DD1 would likely scream for 24 hours if we tried it, making herself sick in the process. She'd never, ever be able to go to sleep the way that book suggests, she'd only sleep out of shear exhaustion, and she'd be damned sure to let us know immediately upon waking that she did not care for that - it wouldn't be "just" 20-30 minutes, it'd be days on end if we so much as tried a method like that.

DD2 (14 weeks old) on the other hand? Sleeping 6+ hours her first stretch of sleep most nights, and has since about 3 weeks old. Totally different kid, totally different temperment, totally different sleeper. Not that I would ever in a million years consider it, but I can see how she might be the type of kid who could be "trained" to sleep longer using some method. DD1 just needed time, and is a decent sleeper now (2.5 yo). DD2 has always been a decent sleeper. They just came out wired differently. But these types of sleep training methods don't seem tot ake any of that into account at all.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cville-rn* 
;

I think women in our society have this message of insecurity drummed into them by people like Ezzo. This idea that we have no idea what we are doing. That we need step by step instructions on how to mother. It is ridiculous.

If we were just taught to embrace our natural instincts as mothers people like Ezzo would not stand a chance.









:

it is sad that people can't trust their own instincts and instead listen to an 'expert' on how to 'train' a tiny baby.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
Every time I go into the bookstore, I take the Ezzo books out of the baby section and hide them in some random place where nobody with a baby is likely to be browsing. It's very therapeutic









I'm guilty of reshelving ezzo books in the horror section.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

LadyCatherine185;13623965
i would like to read it said:


> I found it at a thrift shop, figured it was worth two bucks to keep it out of the hands of someone that might use it. This is a newer version, not as horrible about feeding as the earlier one that I read at another thrift shop but didn't buy about five years ago. But still, just awful. Awful, awful book.
> Someone on my freecycle list was looking for it lately, said they had used it with their first and now were expecting again and needed a copy. I did not offer my copy! Although maybe I should put footnotes and endnotes and attach some research papers and position statements from the AAP and offer it next time...
> 
> Jen


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## boatbaby (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
I'm just so sad, angry and even confused that this is still even out there...

A friend of mine is trying to sleep train her four month old. She's reading Babywise, and really thinks it will work if she just gives it enough time. Several of her friends are telling her that it is the best thing they ever did as a parent and she is so hopeful that it will help. I've offered some of my advice but she clearly thinks my parenting style is so out-there because of all the AP things I do. (I'm actually pretty main-stream as far as AP goes!) I know she takes my advice with a grain of salt.

So I did a little internet search of Ezzo and came up with SO MANY recommendations for why not to follow his advice. I just can't believe there are people out there who believe in his sleep advice. And I can't believe he has somehow connected it to religion and made it seem godly.

Ugh ugh ugh. I'm just so sick thinking about all those babies who are being put through this. And sick thinking that there are parents out there who blindly follow the advice. If they follow what Ezzo says, what other things are they doing that feel wrong yet they do because they think it is the "right" thing to do???

Is your friend my sister-in-law?







Mt brother and sis-in-law are doing the same with my sweet little 4 month old nephew. I tried to talk some sense in to my brother but I have no credibility b/c I still sleep (willingly and happily) with my 4.5 year old son.

It kills me that first they circ him then they leave him alone to CIO at 4 months old. Seriously makes my heart ache when I think about it.


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## Mal85 (Sep 3, 2008)

When my babe was first born, I was so concerned about breastfeeding. I didn't want to do anything to screw it up and was full of questions for all the breastfeeding women in my family to make sure I was doing it right. My SIL always breastfeeds her babies at least a year, so I figured I'd get the best advice from her. She gave me her copy of Babywise and said that it has always been her lifesaver.

She started using it on her oldest when he was 8 weeks old, saying she wanted him to STTN by the time she went back work at 12 weeks. She works nights and wanted it to be easier on her husband (my brother) during the night. I read through the first few chapters and got a bad feeling about it. So, I did some research on Ezzo and was so glad I did before I tried any of his suggestions.

Scheduled feeding and CIO are both just so against everything I want to be as a mom. I always knew I'd feed on demand, I just didn't want on demand to turn into constantly. Luckily, I have a good, calm-natured baby who usually doesn't go less than 2 1/2 hours between meals. But who am I to turn her down if she is hungry again an hour later? Why should I make my baby remain hungry for another hour when I have the goods to feed her then?

The book is now sitting up on a shelf in her closet going completely unused. And luckily a lot of my anxiety about BF has subsided. I just listen to my baby and my body and do what works for us to have a happy baby. My SIL asks me sometimes how it's working for me, and I just vaguely say something about how some of the suggestions have been enlightening.


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

I didn't read all the posts thoroughly because I have a 2 year old







, but I did read the book before I knew anything about AP and aside from the baby stuff (which I thought was horrid) It was so completely chauvinistic it made me sick. The main thing, I think in like the first chapter, was that you are teaching your child that your husband and marriage come first, and children are to wait until you are done "Connecting" with your husband before you tend to them. No where in the book does it give anything about a man connecting with his children. It's written by a man to tell a woman how to act during her marriage. I can't even believe women even read that book and not realize how demeaning it is.

And then the wonderful sources - co-sleeping is only done in 3rd world countries - then it sites Australia as an example (huh?) and the authors spoke to several woman in 3rd countries (their words) and they only baby carry because they _have_ to and would not do it if they lived in a more industrial country (what woman said that? I want names! LOL)

Ugh that book makes me sick for many many reason!


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## boatbaby (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lillymonster* 

and they only baby carry because they _have_ to and would not do it if they lived in a more industrial country (what woman said that? I want names! LOL)



On that note -- read THIS article about that very thing.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenP* 
Although maybe I should put footnotes and endnotes and attach some research papers and position statements from the AAP and offer it next time...










: EXACTLY what I considered doing about birth with my copy of the awful, _The Girlfriend's Guide to Pregnancy_ I was going to donate it to the library with notes inside. But I wasn't sure if it was too wacky of a thing to do & might actually turn someone OFF to my message. Instead, I just recycled it. Wanted it out of my house!


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## Hokulele (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lillymonster* 
I didn't read all the posts thoroughly because I have a 2 year old







, but I did read the book before I knew anything about AP and aside from the baby stuff (which I thought was horrid) It was so completely chauvinistic it made me sick. The main thing, I think in like the first chapter, was that you are teaching your child that your husband and marriage come first, and children are to wait until you are done "Connecting" with your husband before you tend to them. No where in the book does it give anything about a man connecting with his children. It's written by a man to tell a woman how to act during her marriage. I can't even believe women even read that book and not realize how demeaning it is.

And then the wonderful sources - co-sleeping is only done in 3rd world countries - then it sites Australia as an example (huh?) and the authors spoke to several woman in 3rd countries (their words) and they only baby carry because they _have_ to and would not do it if they lived in a more industrial country (what woman said that? I want names! LOL)

Ugh that book makes me sick for many many reason!























:
















That's even worse than I imagined!!!


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## Calebs_Nanna (Jul 2, 2008)

I am a Grandmother now







But I can honestly say that I NEVER ever let my babies cry. My DD#1 is on here & shes very AP. I guess I was too though I never named it LOL I just could never stand to hear a baby cry. DD#2 slept with me till she was 8 or 9 maybe even 10. it just was right.

What i think of is this. Have you ever cried so hard that you cried yourself to sleep? I mean really cried. If you have you know that next morning how you feel. The head-achey, almost hung over feeling. How in Gods name could anyone want their baby to feel that way? It borders on abuse to let a baby just scream.

New babies can NOT be spoiled no matter what you may be told! Babies cry for a reason! They may be hungry, wet or just lonely!!!!!!!! Just want to be held! That is a normal human need!


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boatbaby* 
On that note -- read THIS article about that very thing.

That's a great article. I wanted to post it on myspace page, but it won't let me









I knew I (and my DD) hated my stroller for a reason. She is 2, and I could count on both hands how many times I have used it. We just carry her every where or *gasp* let her walk if she wants.


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## woodsymommyof3 (Mar 25, 2009)

When my oldest was about 4 months old. I finally caved to my ex-H and ex-MIL and let him CIO. After listening to him cry for the most stressful 30 minutes of my life, he was finally silent. I snuck in to check on him and discovered that he had cried so hard he made himself sick before finally falling asleep.







It was the last time I ever did the CIO thing. He's 16 now and I still feel horrible about that.


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *woodsymommyof3* 
When my oldest was about 4 months old. I finally caved to my ex-H and ex-MIL and let him CIO. After listening to him cry for the most stressful 30 minutes of my life, he was finally silent. I snuck in to check on him and discovered that he had cried so hard he made himself sick before finally falling asleep.







It was the last time I ever did the CIO thing. He's 16 now and I still feel horrible about that.

My friend has a 18 month old and says this happens a lot, her DS cries to sleeps and vomits and then falls asleep. She talks like this is _normal_. He has done it a few times, and it's no big deal (to her).









I can't believe people think it's normal and okay. I remember reading in Ferber book that if your child vomits, just clean it up and don't interact with your child and put them back into bed. I am so sad all those books are out there.


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## mjg013 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LiLStar* 
I'm guilty of reshelving ezzo books in the horror section.

OMG! I love this. I will have to do this from now on. Heaven knows I need some stress relief. Therapeutic and doing a good deed.


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## mjg013 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lillymonster* 
I didn't read all the posts thoroughly because I have a 2 year old







, but I did read the book before I knew anything about AP and aside from the baby stuff (which I thought was horrid) It was so completely chauvinistic it made me sick. The main thing, I think in like the first chapter, was that you are teaching your child that your husband and marriage come first, and children are to wait until you are done "Connecting" with your husband before you tend to them. No where in the book does it give anything about a man connecting with his children. It's written by a man to tell a woman how to act during her marriage. I can't even believe women even read that book and not realize how demeaning it is.

And then the wonderful sources - co-sleeping is only done in 3rd world countries - then it sites Australia as an example (huh?) and the authors spoke to several woman in 3rd countries (their words) *and they only baby carry because they have to and would not do it if they lived in a more industrial country (what woman said that? I want names! LOL)*

Ugh that book makes me sick for many many reason!

Seriously? That is insane. I wrap my baby everywhere and people are always amazed and curious and talk about how much easier it looks than lugging around a stroller. I can't believe that anyone would suggest that baby wearing is the harder thing to do.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

I say "Thank God" for the internet. I researched a bit and luckily picked the Dr. Seras book to read before I had dd instead of some less beneficial book. (I did read The Baby Whisperer but it didn't jive with the on-demand feeding I learned from Sears and my breastfeeding class. Also, even though my mom FF us, I remember my younger brother always being rocked and fed before bed.)

Then I read tons on the internet supporting the AP/breastfeeding position once she came along. There seem to be many, many more schedule/CIO books with unrealistic expectations out there than the AP or APish style. Having the internet gives me support when I'm doubting myself. This site, Kellymom and The Babywearer have helped me tremendously. I've also been on the LLL boards here and here... and received help from them when dd was a newborn (once again - found them on the internet.) All that and a BFig, co-sleeping best friend who understands my position.

My daughter is very lucky mommy has good resources!! I'm not sure exactly where we'd be without them...YK?


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

whenever it comes but i always tell people i believe in things like bfing, co sleeping, baby wearing etc. b/c it i sooo much easier and more convenient than bottles and strollers and baby cries so much less. plus since your boobs are in bed with you why make more work for yourself by putting baby so gosh darn far away when you could just keep baby in bed next to you and not even have to fully wake up to nurse.

i find people respond better to that then to actual information. when you make it seem like your taking the easy way out people suddenly jump on board then you throw in the better for baby thing like its just a happy bonus. if you keep it up conistenty when someones pg and throw in off hand comments about how CIO, ff, etc are so much unecessary work and how "your the whole universe to your sweet innocent baby who would never understand why he cries to be with mommy and she doesnt come. he would feel so scared & alone" it eventually starts to sink in. yeah i know i shamelessly play on the hormones but heck the hormones are there so we do this stuff naturally i figure im just helping them out a bit. my cousin is trying to get pg now and it is working thus far.

i think some peope also don't realize there are other ways. i try to make sure i get pg friends a few ap books early in the pg so they dont go out to buy their own and end up with babywise or something. this is why i like the attached dad book by dr. sears it gives men a frame of reference that extends beyond their mothers advice and its written by a dad for dads so it addresses their concerns better then most books would


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## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sept15lija* 
Babywise is all about scheduling your baby...scheduled feeds, letting your baby to learn to "self-soothe" at insanely young ages...I must admit I haven't read the book though, and I've read that the updated versions aren't quite as extreme, but still. Not good! Most of my friends & family sleep train, it's such a common thing. It makes me so sick. I always think - if their 3 or 4 year old came to them and said "mommy, I'm scared and I need to cuddle with you" would they say "no, go back to bed!!"??? (God, maybe they would...who knows)...but if their infant is crying and basically saying the same things without words, they're trying to manipulate you.

Good point! I always want to ask people who sleep train if they are just picking on the baby in the crib while they are in a padded cell and can't escape. My DH was complaining about sleep this weekend and people suggested CIO, which he then suggested to me. I was furious.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sept15lija* 
I always think - if their 3 or 4 year old came to them and said "mommy, I'm scared and I need to cuddle with you" would they say "no, go back to bed!!"??? (God, maybe they would...who knows)...but if their infant is crying and basically saying the same things without words, they're trying to manipulate you.

Yes, they say "go back to bed." At least, I know parents who do with their toddlers/children. Mom and Dad's bed are for Mom and Dad only. From bed-time to wake-up-time.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:

I think women in our society have this message of insecurity drummed into them by people like Ezzo. This idea that we have no idea what we are doing. That we need step by step instructions on how to mother. It is ridiculous.

If we were just taught to embrace our natural instincts as mothers people like Ezzo would not stand a chance
And here lies the problem, entirely. The first 3 months of DS's life, I was bombarded with information. It came from all directions, my family, my in-laws, my Mama friends, my non-Mama friends, the internet, strangers. I was so overwhelmed, and there were so many moments where I broke down crying, because everyone was criticizing one aspect of my parenting.

How easy would it have been for me, to just go to the book store, pick up a book that LAYS out what I should do, and do it? I felt like the whole world was waiting for me to stop co-sleeping, stop breastfeeding, and for DS to start STTN. I was at a loss.

Then one night, when I was up again, with a wide eyed 3 month old, something clicked. No book could ever compare to the instincts I had with DS. I knew when to feed him, I knew what to do, and I was HAPPY responding to his every whim and desire. I was only miserable when I felt like I was the only one practicing AP, or not doing sleep training.

A girlfriend and I got into a discussion about the benefits of a book about NOT sleep training. There are so many benefits to just letting your child guide you. It's an incredible journey.

Ironically, everyone kept telling me that unless I put DS on a schedule, he wouldn't get on one. Somehow, someway, before his 12th birthday, he figured out a routine nap pattern. Then he started sleeping longer through the night. It was just like he figured out he needed more sleep, and was old enough to comprehend that. None of my mainstream friends believe me when I say I didn't do ANY training with him.

Rambly, sorry. Babywise is sick, and it plays into the insecurities of mothers. It hurts my heart when I hear that mom's use it, and recommend it to others.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teale* 
And here lies the problem, entirely. The first 3 months of DS's life, I was bombarded with information. It came from all directions, my family, my in-laws, my Mama friends, my non-Mama friends, the internet, strangers. I was so overwhelmed, and there were so many moments where I broke down crying, because everyone was criticizing one aspect of my parenting.

How easy would it have been for me, to just go to the book store, pick up a book that LAYS out what I should do, and do it? I felt like the whole world was waiting for me to stop co-sleeping, stop breastfeeding, and for DS to start STTN. I was at a loss.

Then one night, when I was up again, with a wide eyed 3 month old, something clicked. No book could ever compare to the instincts I had with DS. I knew when to feed him, I knew what to do, and I was HAPPY responding to his every whim and desire. I was only miserable when I felt like I was the only one practicing AP, or not doing sleep training.

A girlfriend and I got into a discussion about the benefits of a book about NOT sleep training. There are so many benefits to just letting your child guide you. It's an incredible journey.

Ironically, everyone kept telling me that unless I put DS on a schedule, he wouldn't get on one. Somehow, someway, before his 12th birthday, he figured out a routine nap pattern. Then he started sleeping longer through the night. It was just like he figured out he needed more sleep, and was old enough to comprehend that. None of my mainstream friends believe me when I say I didn't do ANY training with him.

Rambly, sorry. Babywise is sick, and it plays into the insecurities of mothers. It hurts my heart when I hear that mom's use it, and recommend it to others.

I totally agree with that. I think that is why books like that exist. Because there are SO MANY of them, and people think that they can't trust their own instincts. Just like with birth, we are scared into thinking we can't trust our bodies and that we couldn't possibly handle the pain. So we listen to the 'experts' (aka- OB) and do whatever they say. (so glad I had a MW!!!) Instinct is very hard to listen to when culture is telling you the exact opposite.

I am really glad that my mom and MIL are both very AP supportive. But for those who aren't as lucky to have that, and everyone they know tells them to read Babywise, it is very easy to fall into the trap.

ETA: it also comes down to research. but of course, you can research something until you are blue in the face and you will find so many 'studies' that contradict eachother. it is so hard to know what is best. that is why I'm SOOO glad I found MDC!!


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## highsierra (Aug 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *haurelia* 









Hello? You signed up to be a parent, that means your kids' needs come first until they're able to meet their needs themselves...especially as newborns.
I realize that we all need to meet our own needs too, but sometimes one has to juggle that, especially with a newborn. Maybe you need 9 hours of sleep per 24 hours...you don't necessarily get that all in one chunk!

Agh!







:

AMEN! You put that so well.


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## jempd (Feb 27, 2002)

You know what I'm thinking--and I'll probably be scolded for suggesting this but IMO it's better than Ezzo--maybe you could say to your friend, "Ok, you know I don't hold with sleep training at all, but if you feel you must, at least try reading about Jodi Mindell's method, (or other, maybe suggest Elizabeth Pantley's book), which is less harsh than Ezzo."

That infuriates me though, that Ezzo is so disrespectful of actual research and facts.

I remember when dh's sister and her husband first had their baby and SIL mentioned that a friend of hers lent her a copy of Babywise. She tentatively said she thought it was a bit extreme and I quickly told her that they were advised against by the AMA or something like that--I think they were but I wasn't sure of the exact association that did put out something advising parents not to follow Ezzo, but I had to put it that way, otherwise she might have followed it, as many of her friends had. I don't have much credibility with dh's sisters and their husbands either and with some people it always helps to mention the ACOG or something or other like that. In favor of your argument of course. Works like a charm with MIL.


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## jempd (Feb 27, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisavark* 
Babywise is the *only* parenting advice book that's ever been condemned by the AAP. It isn't just AP opinions that go against it; even mainstream peds will tell you not to follow Babywise. It's just plain bad.

OOps, sorry, I didn't read all the posts before I posted. Yes, that's the one. My reasoning is if parents who want to follow mainstream guidelines hear that something like the AAP is against it, they'll hear that it's not only indulgent nuts like myself who are against Ezzo, and for good reason. Apparently some babies were seriously malnourished because their parents were following the Babywise thing to a T. Sorry to double post.


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## Fujiko (Nov 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hokulele* 
I'm just so sad, angry and even confused that this is still even out there...

A friend of mine is trying to sleep train her four month old. She's reading Babywise, and really thinks it will work if she just gives it enough time. Several of her friends are telling her that it is the best thing they ever did as a parent and she is so hopeful that it will help. I've offered some of my advice but she clearly thinks my parenting style is so out-there because of all the AP things I do. (I'm actually pretty main-stream as far as AP goes!) I know she takes my advice with a grain of salt.

So I did a little internet search of Ezzo and came up with SO MANY recommendations for why not to follow his advice. I just can't believe there are people out there who believe in his sleep advice. And I can't believe he has somehow connected it to religion and made it seem godly.

Ugh ugh ugh. I'm just so sick thinking about all those babies who are being put through this. And sick thinking that there are parents out there who blindly follow the advice. If they follow what Ezzo says, what other things are they doing that feel wrong yet they do because they think it is the "right" thing to do???

I haven't read any of the replies, but when I saw this I had to post to say that I've gone through the same thing. These are my church friends (more like my husband's church friends' wives, but we ladies have gotten together a few times, too). It was all I could do to keep my jaw from hitting the floor, although when I thought about it I couldn't say I was that surprised. I think it's just the shock of actually knowing someone who seems like they've got a good head on their shoulders who actually thinks this is a good idea.

One of these friends of mine is about to have her second baby, and she told me that she intends to do Babywise from day 1, and be strict about it, too. It's all I can do to keep from uke every time I think about it.


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

40366141If people want a creature they can "train", why not get a performing dog or circus animal? If people want their lives to be "pre-baby normal" - DON'T have a baby!. YES, I do feel strongly enough to say that. But if you want a baby that screams themslves to sleep - until they'll go blue or pass out, vomit - on which they can choke, damage their brain receptors due to a synaptic attack as a result, destroy their trust in he people they rely on 100% for their very suvival, grow up fearful and learnthat their needs are secondary to the peopole who love thme and will only be met when it suits their loved ones "schedule", yeah seems like the "babywise" nonsense is the way to go. If this offends people well the thought of children being treated like that offends ME. On the so called Godly connection. I am not religious but of those parents who follow this babywise nonsense should ask themsleves if they think Jesus would leave a tiny trusting baby to scream in terror in dark room out of fear of abandonment until it threw up and them only slept from exhaustion. If you did that to an adult, it's called torture.
To parents who use this 'babywise' I would ask this question :
Just imagine for a second that you needed your beloved/partner for a basic human need or nurture and instead they left you in a place from which you could not leave (tiny babies being unable to leave a room on thier own, crying with terror and unaware if they'd return, tothe point were youw were physically sick. Then imagine you had no choice but to stay with them ??


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