# Too young to be by themselves at night? WWYD?



## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

I just discovered a 'friend' leaves her 11 year old daughter alone in their apartment at night so she can go out to a bar - "only for an hour" (granted, it takes her at least 30 minutes to get there, so likely 2-3 hours hours in total. It's in an apartment in one of the crummiest neighborhoods in the city, and I believe she leaves after her daughter has gone to bed.

I'm just stunned that she seems to think this is okay, I would have been terrified to wake up and discover I was all by myself at 11 years old. Even if I knew my mom would be leaving. I don't know, maybe this is an acceptable thing? I didn't think this was even legal...

What would you do?


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I would say it depends on the situation and unless you feel she would be better off being cared for by someone else I would leave it alone. I was home babysitting at that age and my kids are home alone at night if we go for dinner or out for a drink and my oldest is 11. They are fine. They know what to do in an emergency and they have a phone.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 
I just discovered a 'friend' leaves her 11 year old *daughter alone in their apartment at night so she can go out to a bar* - "only for an hour" (granted, it takes her at least 30 minutes to get there, so likely 2-3 hours hours in total. *It's in an apartment in one of the crummiest neighborhoods in the city*, and I believe she leaves after her daughter has gone to bed.

I'm just stunned that she seems to think this is okay, I would have been terrified to wake up and discover I was all by myself at 11 years old. Even if I knew my mom would be leaving. I don't know, maybe this is an acceptable thing? I didn't think this was even legal...

What would you do?

Flashback. This was me when I was 9-10. My mom would leave me alone, at night, in apartments in the crappiest neighborhood to go to the bar and I would be absolutely *terrified*. 20 years later, I still remember, in detail, the nightmares I used to have.

Sadly, it is legal, unless there can be a proven safety issue (which I'm sure there can be).

And, no, I don't think it is acceptable whatsoever, having lived it firsthand. I have huge issues w/ my mom and this is only one of the reasons. How sad.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Can you make it clear to the girl that if she is ever scared or worried she can call you? Not to take the responsibility on yourself but to give her an adult she can trust.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama* 
I would say it depends on the situation and unless you feel she would be better off being cared for by someone else I would leave it alone. I was home babysitting at that age and my kids are home alone at night if we go for dinner or out for a drink and my oldest is 11. They are fine. They know what to do in an emergency and they have a phone.

I agree. I think it would depend on the kid.

But I would worry. It's not only the fact that the child is home alone and might be afraid if something were to happen, but someone could break in the house and try to hurt the child.







Plus, what if something happened to the mother like she got abducted or had a car accident. Then what would the child do when mom never comes back? So bad things can happen all around. I worry sometimes when I go to the store and leave the kids home with DH that if something happened to me and they never saw me again.







I could never leave them alone at night like that with no other adults around.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

It wouldn't have bothered me at 11. I doubt there is much more danger when the kid is in bed at night than there is during the day. As long as she has her mom's cell phone number, and another number to call if she needs help or is scared for any reason, I think it's fine.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

I was home alone, even babysitting, but that age. I think it really depends on the kid---there is a vast range of maturity among 11 year olds. How does the kid feel about it? If you are worried, maybe you can ask her and/or offer to have her come to your house every other Friday or something.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanks so much for your responses, I feel a lot better about it. My kids are still tiny, so I really don't know what the world of 10/11 year olds is like.

Some times, I think that this girl is 10 times more mature than her mother







I guess if anyone would be okay on their own at night, she would.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 
Some times, I think that this girl is 10 times more mature than her mother







I guess if anyone would be okay on their own at night, she would.

That's not the worry, though. Sure, she probably won't do anything to cause harm (start a fire, for example), but what about someone else harming her? I was a very mature child but I was scared of people breaking into my apt. and hurting me, especially being in a horrible part of town.

Maybe that's just me, I wouldn't leave my children alone at night unless it was their house, LOL.


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

I have two points of view. When I lived in town, on the "east" side, a busy pretty scary neighborhood- I would NEVER leave my kids alone, probably even at 15 yrs old.
Now I live in a very rural area, and although we do have to be aware of wildlife, I feel 100% confident leaving my 11.5 yr old alone at home for a few hours as long as I am by a phone. The safety issue is definitely a factor for me and I feel grateful I live where I do. She has called me home at times, and I always come home immediately.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I've let my kids stay home alone during the day for an hour or so at a time, starting around age 10. I let my kids babysit by age 12.

There's a huge range of maturity for preteens. Some kids can handle being alone for a couple of hours, some can't.








SAHDS. I'm curious though- did you tell your mom you were scared of being left alone? Did she ignore your fears?


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

I would talk to my friend. Ask questions....is the DD aware that her mom is leaving her alone? Is there a way for the DD to get ahold of the Mom AND another safe adult? Does the DD FEEL safe in this situation? Does the Mom and DD have a written,practiced emergency plan worked out? Does the DD know what to do if something tragic happened?

IMHO, this situation raises huge red flags for me. An 11 yo,alone in the middle of the night,in a dangerous neighborhood,in an apartment building,with a mom going to a bar?






















:





















:t sk


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## Nautical (Mar 4, 2008)

I don't know, I was doing overnight babysitting by age 11 and had been for a while.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nautical* 
I don't know, I was doing overnight babysitting by age 11 and had been for a while.

Yep.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nautical* 
I don't know, I was doing overnight babysitting by age 11 and had been for a while.

Yep me too.

What do you mean by a "crummy" neighborhood? Is it actually dangerous or just lower income?


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## 2goingon2 (Feb 8, 2007)

Eleven year old children are too young to be left alone while mom bar hops. Does this happen on a routine basis? Does the little girl know that she is alone at night? This raises so many questions and concerns. What if she gets sick? What if she has a nightmare? What if she hears something that scares her? And overnight babysitting at that age? I wouldn't let an 11 year baby sit my kids during the day let alone over night. An 11 year old is what, 5th or 6th grade? Way too young to be left alone at night regardless of the neighborhood. Why can't mom find a babysitter? If she has money to go to the bars then she should have money to pay someone to be with her child. Where is the father? Grandparents? How is this even legal? Even if she is a mature 11 year old, she is being forced into a situation she shouldn't be. It is a parent's responsibility to care for their child and not leave them alone to go drink. Sounds like mom needs some help. I'm probably going to sound like the bad guy here but I would seriously consider calling CPS.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Have no idea what it's like in Canada, but where I live there are no laws stating at what age kids can be left home alone.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I don't know if it varies by province, but where I live, 11 is the legal age for leaving a child home alone. Well you can leave your kid home alone earlier if you are running to the store or something small.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

As long as the girl is OK with this, I would stay out of it. Many kids are mature enough to handle this type of responsibility by 11. And sadly, mom in the next room is not going to stop someone breaking in and hurting both of them, or adducting the kid and/or the parent. Mom could get knocked out getting out of the shower and slipping. All sorts of bad things can happen all the time -- there is no perfectly safe world.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2goingon2* 
Why can't mom find a babysitter? If she has money to go to the bars then she should have money to pay someone to be with her child. Where is the father? Grandparents? How is this even legal?

My thoughts exactly! The gas to drive to the bar, the drinks(unless bought for her







),the clothes to wear-if she's able to pay for all that, absolutely she should be paying for a sitter.

I live in the US, and in my state, it is legal to leave a DC HOME alone,regardless of age. Now, not in a CAR however. DC must be at least 6yo, or with a DC 14yo and older to be left alone in a car.









IMHO....it sounds like this momma has her priorities backward.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

There's an awful lot of assumptions being made about this mama. Especially when you consider only one person on this thread has actually ever met her.


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## mjg013 (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't see what the big deal is. Depends on the maturity of the child. My dd is 11 almost 12 and I have left her here with the other kids to go pick dh up from the airport late at night. Of course we live in a great neighborhood and know all our neighbors very well. We have a firefighter across the street and a policeman 2 doors down and there are lots of people she can call if she got into trouble. We also have an alarm system and a 130 lb guard dog that would eat anyone alive that tried to break in or die trying. She's in 7th grade and she is very comfortable with it. The other kids are usually already in bed or ready to be put into bed. I pay her to watch the other kids and she enjoys the extra money. She also stays home alone sometimes when we run out somewhere and she doesn't want to go. She has been staying home for short stints during the day since she was 9 or 10. I did too as a child. But my sister was never allowed to be home alone and I wouldn't let my 2nd dd who is 9 stay home alone for any period of time. Maturity varies greatly and age isn't a deciding factor imo for when a child is ready to be home alone.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2goingon2* 
Eleven year old children are too young to be left alone while mom bar hops. Does this happen on a routine basis? Does the little girl know that she is alone at night? This raises so many questions and concerns. What if she gets sick?
Call Mom on her cell phone.

What if she has a nightmare?
Call Mom on her cell phone, or just go back to sleep. She's 11 years, not 11 months.

What if she hears something that scares her?
You guessed it, call Mom on her cell phone.

These days it is easy to stay in touch. It's not like she is gone for days with no way to get in contact. Obviously, I am going on my own experience of maturity at that age, and that of my dds, but you seem to be expecting the maturity level of a much younger kid.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm not sure what I would do, other than tell the girl that you are nearby if she needs something. I would have been terrified to be left alone at night at that age, but that's probably part of my personality. I still don't like being alone at night.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

It depends so much on the kid and other circumstances.

We live in an apartment building and are friends with our neighbors. We occasionally take a walk around the neighborhood by ourselves or run to the corner store, leaving dd home alone. She's totally comfortable with it. We leave her one cell and take the other and she knows she can go to our neighbors in the building if she needs help.

My BIG concern though is if something happened to ME while I was away, so I always let someone know. DH was visiting his family a couple of towns away last night. I was making lunch for DD for camp after she had gone to bed and I realized we were out of bread.

I left a note for dd and called DH and had him stay on the phone with me while I walked the two blocks to the store and back until I was safely back home (I was gone for about 13 minutes).

So, it depends on the kid and the circumstance. I'm sure, with dd's maturity level now, she will be more than comfortable and ready by the time she's 11 to be left alone for a few hours while DH and I go on a date. However, we'd stay within walking or extremely short driving distance, definitely not 30 minutes away.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawningmama* 
There's an awful lot of assumptions being made about this mama. Especially when you consider only one person on this thread has actually ever met her.

I totally agree.


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

I know this probably comes up a lot on mdc, but I really think it is important to remember that we all come from very different places in terms of background, customs and culture and definitely INCOME! It's lovely that so many folks are well off, but I think important to remember thats not all of us.
I'm not sure why this is coming up for me in this thread, but it really is.
And it's not that because you are poor you don't take as good of care of your kids, it just sometimes means you have less resources or options.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamahart* 
I know this probably comes up a lot on mdc, but I really think it is important to remember that we all come from very different places in terms of background, customs and culture and definitely INCOME! It's lovely that so many folks are well off, but I think important to remember thats not all of us.
I'm not sure why this is coming up for me in this thread, but it really is.
And it's not that because you are poor you don't take as good of care of your kids, it just sometimes means you have less resources or options.

This gets to me sometimes here as well. But even if she does have money for a sitter, it doesn't mean the girl needs one. Some kids would be just fine in this situation. For all we know, the child had a sitter and begged to be left without one! Not enough information here to judge one way or the other.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

I don't see the issue. Like other people said, I was babysitting other kids at that age. And who cares that it's so the mama can step out and have a drink at a bar.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber* 
I don't see the issue. Like other people said, I was babysitting other kids at that age. And who cares that it's so the mama can step out and have a drink at a bar.

I think the bar is what really bothers a lot of posters.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nautical* 
I don't know, I was doing overnight babysitting by age 11 and had been for a while.

It's different in this day and time though.









And yes, I for one think it bothers me more that the mom is leaving her to go to a bar and party.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
It's different in this day and time though.









And yes, I for one think it bothers me more that the mom is leaving her to go to a bar and party.

What's different about it in this day and age? Apart from the obvious, that the kid could contact her mother at any time by cell phone if she needs to.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Have no idea what it's like in Canada, but where I live there are no laws stating at what age kids can be left home alone.

In Alberta, at least, there are no laws about this either. I think it really depends on the child. I was a latchkey kid, making lunch and dinner at the age of 11 for myself and a younger sibling week in, week out....and we did ok.

I know some children much older than 11 that shouldn't be left on their own. And I think my daughter at age 10 is probably mature enough (though I don't leave her alone yet). I see a wide range of maturity in her friends --one 11 yr old who is very easily distracted -- I'd be afraid she'd burn the house down making toast somehow. Another little one, 9, has a mom who works shifts as a nurse and she is on her own, apparently happily, for hours during the day when her mom is sleeping and her dad is at work. Mom IS in the house, though, but asleep, and not to be woken unless there is a dire emergency. But this kid makes dinner for her family, does homework by herself, etc. I'm sure she'd do fine even if mom were physically out of the house instead of asleep.

I know the Red Cross offers a safety training course for babysitters as young as age 11. I am going to sign my daughter up for it after her next birthday. I'd hire a sitter if we were going out for hours at night, I think, but it would be lovely if she could stay with one of her brothers for 20 min while I go to pick the other up at an afterschool activity....

I do think that letting this child (and her mom ) know that she can call you anytime if she is afraid or can't reach mom, as a pp suggested, would be a good idea.


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## mjg013 (Jul 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
What's different about it in this day and age? Apart from the obvious, that the kid could contact her mother at any time by cell phone if she needs to.

Yeah, I don't see anything different about this day and age compared to when I was 10-12. That was 18-20 years ago not 100 years. And even so, I don't perceive this day and time as any more dangerous. There have been thieves, murderers, child abductors, and the like since the beginning of civilization. If anything, modern times provide faster and easier access to help in the case of an emergency. I lived 15 miles from the nearest neighbor growing up and even farther from a fire department or police station. Had something happened while I was home alone there was no one to call on a cell phone and it would have taken fire and rescue an hour to get there. At my house it would take less than 5 mins.


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Do you know the child well enough to befriend her a little? Just to get a sense of her own knowlege about "what to do if...". And to gauge her confidence. I think an 11 year old is okay for an hour or two alone IF you know they have someone to call in the event they needed company. And at night is easier because at least the child is not tempted to be out with friends.

I guess, to me, 11 years old is pretty borderline. My oldest was okay alone for an hour at 11 but my 2nd,,,NOOO WAY! He's almost 13 and I'm just starting to leave him for an hour here and there. Different kids, yanno?


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I think it's safer now to be home alone than it was when I was younger and home alone. If I was to hire a babysitter I wouldn't be able to afford to leave my house and my kids don't need one anyway so it would be wasted money. I enjoy having a life outside of my kids and sometimes that involves having a drink with some friends or heading out for a late dinner. I also live in the "bad" (read low income) part of town and if you look at vehicle breakins you would say we are high crime but many many "bad" areas have little to no "person crimes". People will say they don't even like to eat in my neighborhood and I just laugh. I'm glad not be so sheltered and I'm glad my children are so sheltered either.


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## Pancakes (Jan 22, 2008)

I have an 11 year old and have left her home alone before without worry. I'd probably not leave her alone while I went to a bar, but that's just not my life. I would however, leave her alone while DH and I went out to dinner. Well, probably not because we do everything as a family, but I would feel comfortable doing so.

My DD is 11, going into the 7th grade and is incredibly mature. She knows what to do in case of an emergency. She knows how to use a phone, she knows the places to hide if someone breaks in, she knows how to call 911, she knows not to use the stove when adults aren't present.

There is such a HUGE difference in children at this age and an even bigger difference in children just a year or two younger. The only issue I have is that mom is leaving her alone to go to a bar. It has nothing to do with leaving the child home alone, it has more to do with why she is leaving her alone. But that is my perspective on life, and I can acknowledge that I have a different view than other people.


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

Sometimes even mothers want to go out and drink and dance and party. Sometimes this can rejuvenate a weary spirit.







:


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## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

I think it totally depends on the child, but no matter how responsible the child is, or what age they are (when you leave your 18-year-old at home there's a chance someone will break in and kill her, and you'd still probably feel awful for not being there), there is always a risk involed.

I was babysitting my younger sisters for up to 4 hours at a time when I was 11, never had a problem. We stayed in the house, we didn't answer the door, we always had a number to reach parents/neighbor/friend, and we knew about fire safety and how to call 911.

Quote:

Yeah, I don't see anything different about this day and age compared to when I was 10-12. That was 18-20 years ago not 100 years. And even so, I don't perceive this day and time as any more dangerous. There have been thieves, murderers, child abductors, and the like since the beginning of civilization. If anything, modern times provide faster and easier access to help in the case of an emergency. I lived 15 miles from the nearest neighbor growing up and even farther from a fire department or police station. Had something happened while I was home alone there was no one to call on a cell phone and it would have taken fire and rescue an hour to get there. At my house it would take less than 5 mins.
ITA. I do think there's a tendacy in everyone to start bemoaning how 'things are different now' but it's mostly all in the eye of the beholder. Crime rates now are lower than when I was a kid. There's simply a lot of media hysteria, which can fool people into thinking there's some sort of pedophile epidemic, etc. And cell phones have increased safety enormously.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
What's different about it in this day and age? Apart from the obvious, that the kid could contact her mother at any time by cell phone if she needs to.

Well, I am in my 40's,so imho, a lot has changed. There was not the perverted,violent society that invades most homes and streets(all the more if "crummy"-as stated-otherwise,why the label,"crummy"?),like there is today.There wasn't a CPS,eagerly awaiting parents to slip up and make the tiniest mistakes...to get in,and prove a case against the parents. God forbid something bad should happen to this Mother or her DD,THE FACT that the Mom is away at a bar,drinking,would just fuel any fire under CPS. Just look at the tragic case down in Florida,now that the Mother has pics plastered all over the news,of her out partying,she is being made to look all the more guilty-and protrayed as a HORRIBLE Mother. 11 year olds have access to so much cr*p these days,or their friends do. So,what if the DD seems like she is asleep,but is eagerly awaiting for her Mother to leave,so she can carry on herself. That "carrying on" may look *very* different today,than 30 yrs ago.

Does this DD have a cell phone? Does her Mom have one? Would her Mom be driving home drunk? Would she be sober enough to properly guide her DD through something gone bad?

As for the suggestions of pps re discrimination due to socio-economic differences. I guess I am seeing it different. In todays society,if a Mom,who is single(?),and lives in a crummy neighborhood(stated)leaves her 11yo DD alone at night, is much more at risk of being discriminated against. She already has two strikes against her-she is a(single?) woman,and she is (presumably) poor. A stranger,the police,or CPS, could all view the Mom as being neglectful,unable to make responsible decisions when it comes to her parenting. If the Mother is poor,rarely gets a brake,and wants to go to the bar to relax,or enjoy herself-she probably has less choices in obtaining affordable and/or trustworthy childcare.(I'm thinking of a pp who said she leaves her DC alone,but has trustworthy neighbors,policemen,firefighterws-all living on her street-IOW-she has extraordinary support system.YK?)


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Well actually violent crime rates are way down, so your assertion that our society is more perverted and violent is way off.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I think the bar is what really bothers a lot of posters.

Absolutely.Is the Mother getting smashed?*If* she had a cell phone, would she be able to hear it? Is she driving home drunk? Would her drinking cloud her parental judgement,should something go bad?

If something went bad,or the DD spoke to someone about the situation,many,many people in places of authority could view the Mother as just horrible. Now, if the Mother was leaving her DD to go work the overnight shift somewhere,and something went bad, I could see the reactions of those judging the situation, to be much more forgiving.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
Well, I am in my 40's,so imho, a lot has changed. There was not the perverted,violent society that invades most homes and streets(all the more if "crummy"-as stated-otherwise,why the label,"crummy"?),like there is today.There wasn't a CPS,eagerly awaiting parents to slip up and make the tiniest mistakes...to get in,and prove a case against the parents. God forbid something bad should happen to this Mother or her DD,THE FACT that the Mom is away at a bar,drinking,would just fuel any fire under CPS. Just look at the tragic case down in Florida,now that the Mother has pics plastered all over the news,of her out partying,she is being made to look all the more guilty-and protrayed as a HORRIBLE Mother. 11 year olds have access to so much cr*p these days,or their friends do. So,what if the DD seems like she is asleep,but is eagerly awaiting for her Mother to leave,so she can carry on herself. That "carrying on" may look *very* different today,than 30 yrs ago.

We are the same age. And yes, the world did *seem* safer then. But the statistics don't bear this out -- it was worse, it was just not as widely publicized and not as widely known. The case in FL has no bearing here -- that child was 2, this child is 11. Assuming that in the OPs state 11 is above the legal guidelines for leaving a child alone, I don't think CPS would have any standing here. Of course, if 11 is below the limit, then this wouldn't be advisable. Yes, IF something happened the press would have a field day. But I'm not going to live my life worried about what public opinion would say if so many if's strung together.

In San Diego a few years ago, a child of about this age was kidnapped from her home while her father was in the house. Just goes to show that parents in the next room aren't necessarily any defense.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamahart* 
Sometimes even mothers want to go out and drink and dance and party. Sometimes this can rejuvenate a weary spirit.







:

Absolutely! Over my almost 12 yrs of parenting,I have had 100's of nights,where I would have LOVED to let my hair down and have fun!
Unfortunatley, until this February,I haven't had family live w/i 60 miles of me. I am not a very trusting person when it comes to childcare,nor could I afford it-And - the cost of going out. My friends who take care of my DC when I need them to,have DC of their own-with earlier bedtimes than my DC,making it all the more difficult to have it workout. We have paid one babysitter,in all of these yrs,and my DH was generous enough to let me be the one to have more thaan one drink.(IOW-designated driver)

I realize that I am in the minority here. I am the first one to admit,that I need to get out more!
















For me, I wouldn't have a good time-wouldn't be worth it, if I wasn't as positive as possible,that my DC were safe.

Not all of us have the luxury of family,friends,or cheap,trustworthy childcare.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
We are the same age. And yes, the world did *seem* safer then. But the statistics don't bear this out -- it was worse, it was just not as widely publicized and not as widely known. The case in FL has no bearing here -- that child was 2, this child is 11. Assuming that in the OPs state 11 is above the legal guidelines for leaving a child alone, I don't think CPS would have any standing here. Of course, if 11 is below the limit, then this wouldn't be advisable. Yes, IF something happened the press would have a field day. But I'm not going to live my life worried about what public opinion would say if so many if's strung together.

In San Diego a few years ago, a child of about this age was kidnapped from her home while her father was in the house. Just goes to show that parents in the next room aren't necessarily any defense.

I *think* the OP is from Canada.

Is the world safer? In the US, I guess I am thinking of violent school and church shootings.Mall shootings. Violent musical lyrics and video games. The extreme sexualization of females,getting younger and younger. Terrorists attacks-from US citizens and Non US citizens. People getting messed up on harder drugs like meth-and either getting violent while high,or while trying to get the drug. The evils and ease of the internet. Violent gangs in most towns and cities. Sure,they were there before-but because of the lack of parents attaching to thier kids,they turn to the gangs as their family. I just spoke with a man from Mexico,he was so upset,as his DS was involved in drugs and crime,refused to be a part of the family anymore,all becsause the DS wanted *stuff*,meaning material things. Kids are not playing ball at the sandlot,or playing outside,because the parents or the kids themselves don't feel safe.Kinders bringing guns to school.More DC and women in homeless shelters.

Does this sound safer than the childhood of the 60'sw and 70's?

Where are these stats coming from? And what are the comparisons? To the 30's,40's,50's,.60's,70's,80's,90's?

The OP came here asking when it's okay for an 11 yo to be left alone in the middle of the night. Sure,i think we all try to live our lives not considering all the what ifs-but the OP asked,and these are mhos.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
I *think* the OP is from Canada.

Is the world safer? In the US, I guess I am thinking of violent school and church shootings.Mall shootings. Violent musical lyrics and video games. The extreme sexualization of females,getting younger and younger. Terrorists attacks-from US citizens and Non US citizens. People getting messed up on harder drugs like meth-and either getting violent while high,or while trying to get the drug. The evils and ease of the internet. Violent gangs in most towns and cities. Sure,they were there before-but because of the lack of parents attaching to thier kids,they turn to the gangs as their family. I just spoke with a man from Mexico,he was so upset,as his DS was involved in drugs and crime,refused to be a part of the family anymore,all becsause the DS wanted *stuff*,meaning material things. Kids are not playing ball at the sandlot,or playing outside,because the parents or the kids themselves don't feel safe.Kinders bringing guns to school.More DC and women in homeless shelters.

Does this sound safer than the childhood of the 60'sw and 70's?

Where are these stats coming from? And what are the comparisons? To the 30's,40's,50's,.60's,70's,80's,90's?

The OP came here asking when it's okay for an 11 yo to be left alone in the middle of the night. Sure,i think we all try to live our lives not considering all the what ifs-but the OP asked,and these are mhos.

Crimes, especially violent personal crime is way down since the 70s, at least in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

From the above:

Quote:

Crime in the United States has fluctuated considerably over the course of the last half-century, rising significantly in the late 1960s and 1970s, peaking in the 1980s and then decreasing considerably in the 1990s.

The year 2005 was overall the safest year in the past thirty years. The recent overall decrease has reflected upon all significant types of crime, with all violent and property crimes having decreased and reached an all-time low.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

From the same wikipedia link you gave....

>>>>>The likelihood of committing and falling victim to crime also depends on several demographic characteristics, as well as location of the population. Overall, minorities, the young, and those in financially less favorable positions are more likely to be victimized by, as well as commit, crimes.[8] Crime in the US is also concentrated to certain areas. It is quite common for crime in American cities to be highly concentrated in a few, often economically disadvantaged areas.<<<<<

And really, the stats vary considerably-across the board, especially when you consider the reported vs. unreported.

Honestly, I know what goes on in my own city. Crimes from adults against adults and DC, and crimes from DC to adults and other DC.

I guess it all comes down to what we feel is safe for our DC. And obviously, the OP is questioning this in regard to her friend.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Well actually violent crime rates are way down, so your assertion that our society is more perverted and violent is way off.

No, I don't think I am way off,actually. I think there are lots of factors to add in, when figuring it all up.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah and adding up all the factors, I still think you are way off. We are safer than we have ever been in the past 30 years, but our culture of fear tells us differently.

All the examples you gave above have nothing to do with children home alone, and if anything, are a good argument for staying home.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I REALLY hope the mama who is being villianised on this thread doesn't have internet access









I'm a single mama with no money and a 2 year old DD. Do i go out and leave her alone? Of course not.

Do i relish the idea that i will not get a break for over a DECADE? Um, no.

I don't believe the OP intended to be as judgemental as many on this thread have been. Clearly if you are single or poor you don't DESERVE to have any fun that isn't directly related to your child, and every parenting decision needs to be scrutinised (by strangers who do not know you or your child) because after all, what fit mother would be single and poor anyway!?


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Yeah and adding up all the factors, I still think you are way off. We are safer than we have ever been in the past 30 years, but our culture of fear tells us differently.

All the examples you gave above have nothing to do with children home alone, and if anything, are a good argument for staying home.


Again, I don't think I am way off, as I think it depends on where you live. I think this is why there are such varying answers to the OP-we all live in different parts of the world, in different neighborhoods, some with readily available support for childcare, some not.

If the OP asked when it's okay to leave the 11yo DD home alone in the middle of the night-but described a situation where the neighbors were dear and trusted, firefighters and police officers right down the street. I may think,well,sure. But she didn't. She described the DD home alone overnight, in an apt. building,located in a "crummy" neighborhood, and the Mom driving far away to a bar. Perhaps the OP left out some more helpful details, but going on what she gave, she didn't paint a very safe picture.

I agree, the description I gave of the US, tends to make one want to never leave the house.







But also, makes me wonder how safe of a choice it is for the MOM TO BE LEAVING her precious DD home alone, when she is so far away.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

None of those things you listed are going to be any safer if the mother is there. If a plane flies into their building or someone opens fire in a school, it is not going to make a difference if the mother is beside her.

I know Toronto well, and would have no problem leaving an 11 year old child home alone in any neighbourhood.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

Also, aparment living, even in "crummy" neighborhoods (possibly, more so) is a much more communal way of life than suburban detached house living. Most buildings have a busybody or two who kind of keeps his/her ear out for things out of order and most children who live in apartments have a few go-to adults if they have an issue.

Not knowing the full situation of tis particular family, I can in no way pass judgment on whether or not this mama is making a safe choice. The information given doesn't even raise a red flag for me.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yeah me neither.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I REALLY hope the mama who is being villianised on this thread doesn't have internet access









I'm a single mama with no money and a 2 year old DD. Do i go out and leave her alone? Of course not.

Do i relish the idea that i will not get a break for over a DECADE? Um, no.

I don't believe the OP intended to be as judgemental as many on this thread have been. Clearly if you are single or poor you don't DESERVE to have any fun that isn't directly related to your child, and every parenting decision needs to be scrutinised (by strangers who do not know you or your child) because after all, what fit mother would be single and poor anyway!?

Whose being judgmental?

We are poor, but while I deserve to have fun, I wouldn't do it at my DC's expense-and FOR ME, leaving my DD(11.5) alone in the middle of the night, under the OP's described situation, would make it unbearable.... and soooo not worth it. The operative words here are: FOR ME.

I am a $$ poor woman, judged by others for many parenting decisions(doesn't it come with our job?







),but noone could scrutinise(sp?) my parenting more than me.

Why feel bad for the friend of the OP? The OP came here to ask for opinions-that is what most of us are doing-giving her opinions-and-some, personal examples. The OP sounded concerned-actually, sounds like a caring friend,and wants a variety of opinions to hopefully take back to her friend to discuss.


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## Rebecca (Dec 4, 2002)

I too was babysitting at 11-12 until the wee hours. I think for many kids, particularly girls, it's fine to be alone at night. I would have been really resentful if my parents tried to hire a sitter when I was that age.

How do we know a neighbor isn't keeping an eye on her? Or they don't already have something set up for emergencies?

And it's better than the mom bring creepy guys home to the apartment, doncha think?


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## Pancakes (Jan 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamahart* 
Sometimes even mothers want to go out and drink and dance and party. Sometimes this can rejuvenate a weary spirit.







:

OMG, I by no means meant to state that going to a bar was bad!!! We do need to get out and let our hair down. I'm just saying that I'd probably not let that be the reason I left my kid home alone. Sure, going to the store, a close by restaurant, the bank, etc. But going out to a bar, not so much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 

For me, I wouldn't have a good time-wouldn't be worth it, if I wasn't as positive as possible,that my DC were safe.

Not all of us have the luxury of family,friends,or cheap,trustworthy childcare.


I'm in the exact same situation of not having family around or reliable babysitters. I don't want to leave my kids with friends as I want my friends to go out with me!

I also wouldn't have fun if I were constantly worried if my kids were ok. I want a babysitter so that I can let my hair down, have a couple of drinks and then dance on the table. Hrm, maybe not that last part.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
None of those things you listed are going to be any safer if the mother is there. If a plane flies into their building or someone opens fire in a school, it is not going to make a difference if the mother is beside her.

Why do DC need a parent or trusted adult then?







If any of the above horrific things played out, a grownup or even just another person present could make a huge difference. People are more powerful in numbers.

IMNHO, an 11yo would *need* a parent or trusted adult with them, to help them with the emotional and physical trauma they would experience. Having a parent present could mean a lot emotionally.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawningmama* 
Also, aparment living, even in "crummy" neighborhoods (possibly, more so) is a much more communal way of life than suburban detached house living. Most buildings have a busybody or two who kind of keeps his/her ear out for things out of order and most children who live in apartments have a few go-to adults if they have an issue.

Not knowing the full situation of tis particular family, I can in no way pass judgment on whether or not this mama is making a safe choice. The information given doesn't even raise a red flag for me.

ITA! We have not been given enough info to know the kind of communal support the apt. has. Some are awesome,some are horrific. The OP sounded concerned, therefore I saw red flags.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rebecca* 
I too was babysitting at 11-12 until the wee hours. I think for many kids, particularly girls, it's fine to be alone at night. I would have been really resentful if my parents tried to hire a sitter when I was that age.

How do we know a neighbor isn't keeping an eye on her? Or they don't already have something set up for emergencies?

And it's better than the mom bring creepy guys home to the apartment, doncha think?

To this last sentence-probably most definitely!

Gee, I sure wish the OP would check back in, and possibly say thanks, or give more info.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanks ladies, I've been out of town for a couple of days, this has really given me a lot to think about, and certainly validating my red flags!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
None of those things you listed are going to be any safer if the mother is there. If a plane flies into their building or someone opens fire in a school, it is not going to make a difference if the mother is beside her.

I know Toronto well, and would have no problem leaving an 11 year old child home alone in any neighbourhood.

We're in Toronto (Canada, so CPS, US stats don't apply)
She's in an apartment building in Parkdale - where there is the highest density of 'rehabbed' child abusers/pedophiles. etc. in Ontario. That's what bugs me. The crime rate in that neighborhood is quite high. I lived in that neighborhood for 5 years, and I wouldn't walk around by myself at night.

Other things I want to clear up, because yes, there are WAY to many assumptions about the mother here:
-she isn't going out to drink, much less get smashed. She may have one drink, but it's more to see friends and dance.
-she takes the bus, she doesn't drive - certainly not drunk
-the mom is in a long term relationship and not bringing strangers home from the bar
-I don't think she has a cell phone, but if she did, I don't expect she could hear it at the bar.
-there aren't any neighbors watching out for the daughter

I know a lot of us were left alone at that age for an hour or two, but a lot of us were allowed to play "down the street" unsupervised at 6 years old for hours on end, and I don't see a lot of us comfortable allowing our own kids out of our sight at that age. Especially in a crime-heavy downtown core of a metropolitan city. That said, I figured the mom knows what her daughter can handle, and as I said, I really don't know what the world of 10/11 year olds is like (I can't remember if she's 10 or 11) but it does raise flags. I will chat with her and try to find out what her thoughts are on it.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
My thoughts exactly! The gas to drive to the bar, the drinks(unless bought for her







),the clothes to wear-if she's able to pay for all that, absolutely she should be paying for a sitter.

I live in the US, and in my state, it is legal to leave a DC HOME alone,regardless of age. Now, not in a CAR however. DC must be at least 6yo, or with a DC 14yo and older to be left alone in a car.









IMHO....it sounds like this momma has her priorities backward.









Whoa! This last sentence was very judgemental of me! I'm sorry OP!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 

We're in Toronto (Canada, so CPS, US stats don't apply)
She's in an apartment building in Parkdale - where there is the highest density of 'rehabbed' child abusers/pedophiles. etc. in Ontario. That's what bugs me. The crime rate in that neighborhood is quite high. I lived in that neighborhood for 5 years, and I wouldn't walk around by myself at night.

While it would not bother me to walk around alone at night, I think there is a big difference between walking the streets alone and being alone in an apartment.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 
I just discovered a 'friend' leaves her 11 year old daughter alone in their apartment at night so she can go out to a bar - "only for an hour" (granted, it takes her at least 30 minutes to get there, so likely 2-3 hours hours in total. It's in an apartment in one of the crummiest neighborhoods in the city, and I believe she leaves after her daughter has gone to bed.

I'm just stunned that she seems to think this is okay, I would have been terrified to wake up and discover I was all by myself at 11 years old. Even if I knew my mom would be leaving. I don't know, maybe this is an acceptable thing? I didn't think this was even legal...

What would you do?

Depends on the state or jurisdiction you're in. In some states in the U.S., this is illegal.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

11 is legal in ONtario.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
11 is legal in ONtario.

AHA!! Thank you!! I tried googling for it, but got distracted (and I was away for a few days). Thanks for finding that. While the mother tends to make some poor choices in some areas of her life, she doesn't seem like the sort of person to do something downright illegal when it comes to her daughter.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

UNder 11 is not illegal per se, but it is a judgement call, so social workers saying like running to the store for a few minutes, that kind of thing, depending on the maturity level of your child under 11 is not illegal.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

Dianna11, have you talked to the daughter? How does she feel about it? If she's not comfy, can you offer to have her spend a night with your family every now and again? 11 is a fantastic age to be a mother's helper---she could probably get up w/ your little(s) in the morning and you could sleep in, pay her a couple of bucks or just trade the time w/ her mama.


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## medicmama (May 5, 2006)

I don't think I could leave a 11 y/o home alone. I have a friend that dose leave her 11 ds alone *imo very inmature* all night. leaves after he's asleep in just an hour or so before he wakes. I myself can't do it. I don't think it's safe.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

Sounds fine to me. Re: not being able to hear her daughter call her on her cell phone when she's at the bar, the mom can put the phone on vibrate. When I go out and leave my kids at home (they're older now, but I used to leave them when they were younger--sometimes to go to a club), I can also text them.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennyfur* 
Sounds fine to me. Re: not being able to hear her daughter call her on her cell phone when she's at the bar, the mom can put the phone on vibrate. When I go out and leave my kids at home (they're older now, but I used to leave them when they were younger--sometimes to go to a club), I can also text them.

...have you ever tried to have your phone on 'vibrate' in a bar? Especially a dance club bar? Everything vibrates, it's impossible to feel or hear. Furthermore, I'm reasonably sure she doesn't have a cell phone at all. Her daughter certainly doesn't have one to text her with.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 
I'm just stunned that she seems to think this is okay, I would have been terrified to wake up and discover I was all by myself at 11 years old. Even if I knew my mom would be leaving. I don't know, maybe this is an acceptable thing? I didn't think this was even legal...

11? Sounds fine to me!
I was babysitting overnight for other people's toddlers by age 11. I think most 11 yos, especially girls, are mature enough to be alone by that age.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

I just found this Here. It's from an Ontario Canada website (where we live)
_
Children aged 10 to 11 years old may be occasionally left alone at home for up to 1 - 2 hours provided they have no fear or anxiety staying home alone and the child's level of maturity matches this arrangement. *Children in this age group should not be home alone for any period of time during overnight hours* or be expected to take care of younger siblings or friends. To ensure a child's safety, parents should teach them general safety rules (for example, who to contact in an emergency, how to use the telephone, how to react in case of fire, etc.).

Children 12 and older should not be left alone overnight. Children in this age group are often able to babysit younger children. They should be able to demonstrate that they can follow safety rules. A babysitting certificate is a great idea to help learn basic health & safety procedures. A 12 or 13 year old babysitter should not be left in charge of more than 2 children; should not be responsible for cooking; supervising swimming of, or the bathing of, children. It is generally recommended that they do not babysit for periods longer than 4 hours per day.
_

So there it is, I guess.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

That's the opinion of a gov't Early Years website, not the law. It is just a guideline. It is a group partially or fully run by Public Health.

From the Ontario Children's Aid

http://www.oacas.org/childwelfare/faqs.htm#alone

Supervision & Care does NOT need to be someone standing in the same room as the child. It is purposely vague because they recognize that age does not define ability.

While what the mom is doing is not something everyone would do or that the op herself would do, she is not doing anything illegal.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
That's the opinion of a gov't Early Years website, not the law. It is just a guideline. It is a group partially or fully run by Public Health.

From the Ontario Children's Aid

http://www.oacas.org/childwelfare/faqs.htm#alone

Supervision & Care does NOT need to be someone standing in the same room as the child. It is purposely vague because they recognize that age does not define ability.

While what the mom is doing is not something everyone would do or that the op herself would do, she is not doing anything illegal.

Awesome! Thanks for looking that up, I couldn't find anything about the law regarding the situation. As I said, the mom tends to not make the best choices all of the time, but I didn't think that she would do anything outright illegal when it comes to her daughter.


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

I just got finished reading Gavin De Beckers book, Protecting the Gift". If the kid knows what to do in an emergency, if they know what to do if someone is trying to force their way into the house, what to do if someone is knocking at the door (should they answer it/what if they claim they are a repairman, etc), if they know their address, phone number, etc, and know the escape routes in case of fire (*and* are clear thinking enough to remember to grab their sibling if there is an emergency instead of just running out of the house by themselves), if they know to never leave their sibling alone and unattended to, then sure, they can be home alone with their younger brother or sister.

You wonder if the parent has thought to tell the older kid all those things, however.

I personally would not trust a kid that young to take care of a young child, unless they are close in age that is. I wouldn't let an 11 or 12 year old baby sit my child either.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammyswanson* 
I just got finished reading Gavin De Beckers book, Protecting the Gift". If the kid knows what to do in an emergency, if they know what to do if someone is trying to force their way into the house, what to do if someone is knocking at the door (should they answer it/what if they claim they are a repairman, etc), if they know their address, phone number, etc, and know the escape routes in case of fire (*and* are clear thinking enough to remember to grab their sibling if there is an emergency instead of just running out of the house by themselves), if they know to never leave their sibling alone and unattended to, then sure, they can be home alone with their younger brother or sister.

You wonder if the parent has thought to tell the older kid all those things, however.

I personally would not trust a kid that young to take care of a young child, unless they are close in age that is. I wouldn't let an 11 or 12 year old baby sit my child either.

She's not babysitting anybody, she's just by herself from about 10:30pm to 1:30am


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammyswanson* 
I just got finished reading Gavin De Beckers book, Protecting the Gift". If the kid knows what to do in an emergency, if they know what to do if someone is trying to force their way into the house, what to do if someone is knocking at the door (should they answer it/what if they claim they are a repairman, etc), if they know their address, phone number, etc, and know the escape routes in case of fire (*and* are clear thinking enough to remember to grab their sibling if there is an emergency instead of just running out of the house by themselves), if they know to never leave their sibling alone and unattended to, then sure, they can be home alone with their younger brother or sister.

You wonder if the parent has thought to tell the older kid all those things, however.

I personally would not trust a kid that young to take care of a young child, unless they are close in age that is. I wouldn't let an 11 or 12 year old baby sit my child either.

I just wanted to put a plug in for de Becker's book! Two







's up. It's a must read for every parent!


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

While I know many people think children should be glued to mom's hips until they are 18, many others know their 11 year olds are plenty mature enough to sleep for an hour alone. In the state of Oregon, children 10 and over can be left alone for longer periods of time. That said, my 11 year old DS would not be left alone without another more mature child because he has SN and isn't mature enough to call the police or ask for help if he needs it. While untested, I know my DD(13) could do just fine for 2-3 days, even longer if I kept enough food stocked up and she had internet access!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
Why do DC need a parent or trusted adult then?







If any of the above horrific things played out, a grownup or even just another person present could make a huge difference. People are more powerful in numbers.

IMNHO, an 11yo would *need* a parent or trusted adult with them, to help them with the emotional and physical trauma they would experience. Having a parent present could mean a lot emotionally.

Under this logic, you should never let a child out of your sight, because some horrific thing might happen to them. Horrific things are incredibly rare. Home invasions are rare. Stranger abductions are rare. Most child abuse is perpetrated by people the child knows. That was true 30 years ago when I was 11 and no one talked about child abuse and it's true today.

Now, in the OPs situation, I would not be comfortable leaving MY child alone in those circumstances, but that's because MY older child (7) is prone to anxiety, and he's 4 years away from that anyway. He would not be ready at 11. He probably won't be ready until about 14! Our dd might be, but she's only 4, and it's too soon to tell.

But, I was babysitting at 11. Many 11 year olds are quite competent. I'm assuming the apartment is locked, the child knows how to use the phone in case of emergency, and the mother doesn't have the money for a sitter/have a sitter she can trust, or she'd choose that option.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Under this logic, you should never let a child out of your sight, because some horrific thing might happen to them. Horrific things are incredibly rare. Home invasions are rare. Stranger abductions are rare. Most child abuse is perpetrated by people the child knows. That was true 30 years ago when I was 11 and no one talked about child abuse and it's true today.
.

I am aware of these things.When reading all of the posts, one can see, I was replying to a pp, saying how much safer our world is today. I was simply giving examples of things that were *not* around in the 60's-70's. Hmm..not sure I would have even listed child abuse, as I know it was happening-in my own home.

Sounds like the OP got some answers she needed. Yay! What a good friend!







:


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## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
Is the world safer? In the US, I guess I am thinking of violent school and church shootings.Mall shootings. Violent musical lyrics and video games. The extreme sexualization of females,getting younger and younger. Terrorists attacks-from US citizens and Non US citizens. People getting messed up on harder drugs like meth-and either getting violent while high,or while trying to get the drug. The evils and ease of the internet. Violent gangs in most towns and cities. Sure,they were there before-but because of the lack of parents attaching to thier kids,they turn to the gangs as their family. I just spoke with a man from Mexico,he was so upset,as his DS was involved in drugs and crime,refused to be a part of the family anymore,all becsause the DS wanted *stuff*,meaning material things. Kids are not playing ball at the sandlot,or playing outside,because the parents or the kids themselves don't feel safe.Kinders bringing guns to school.More DC and women in homeless shelters.


I think you're really off with these assumptions. We surely hear about all these awful things a lot more than we did 20 years ago. However, statistically, life is safer in the US now than at any other time. Statistics are factual; personal opinions and experiences aren't indicative of the big picture.

Things have surely changed over time, but not nessesarily for the worse.

I think part of being a parent is thinking that your own childhood was much safer/more wholesome than what your children are exposed to. My older aunts (11 yrs older than my mother) heard it from my grandmother, mom my heard it from my older aunts, and now me and my cousins with little children are hearing it from my mom's generation.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhubarbarin* 
I think you're really off with these assumptions. We surely hear about all these awful things a lot more than we did 20 years ago. However, statistically, life is safer in the US now than at any other time. Statistics are factual; personal opinions and experiences aren't indicative of the big picture.

Things have surely changed over time, but not nessesarily for the worse.

I think part of being a parent is thinking that your own childhood was much safer/more wholesome than what your children are exposed to. My older aunts (11 yrs older than my mother) heard it from my grandmother, mom my heard it from my older aunts, and now me and my cousins with little children are hearing it from my mom's generation.

Again, I don't think I am really off with these assumptions. It's true that because of the click of a mouse, we have the world's bad news at our fingers.

As was stated in pps,THE STATS REALLY DEPEND ON DEMOGRAPHICS. It's right there on the wikipedia website. Actually, I don't see how we can really compare violent stats-when the violence is on the scale of blowing up buildings(Oklahoma City and World Trade Towers), the crimes used via/motivated by the internet,music and video games. These are things that did not exist when I was a kid(60's/early 70's).

And, going waaay OT.







.......perhaps some people believe their own childhood was more wholesome/better/safer than their DC's childhood. For me, I can confidently say that my DC have a much,much more wholesome/better/ and safer than my own childhood. Then again, my own childhood was riddled with drug raids to my house by police(no CPS stepping in then














),attending 5 different grade schools, 4 different middle schools, and finally! just one high school; a Mom who put bfs in front of her job as a Mom, being molested for three yrs in my teen yrs, more than a few of Mom's bfs hitting on me, an abusive stepdad,and the best....witnessing my dad try to blow his head off.

VS.....I've been married 18 yrs,offering stabilty, homeschooling(well, till this fall),no abusing drugs or alcohol,practicing AP. And I am an uber mama bear! Though I do have chronic illnesses,which has been no bed of roses for my DC.

Not saying this to pour out a pity party, just to let you know, that lots of us mommas have very different backgrounds-mine was a HUGE motivator to parent the way i do,and strive for something better for them.

I think it may be a more accurate statement(and more appropriate to a variety of people) to say that MOST parents want a better/safer life than they ,themselves, as parents,had.


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## mar123 (Apr 14, 2008)

I agree with the posters who have said it depends on the child. I have three children; 12, 10, and 7. This summer they stayed home alone during the day for three hours while I taught summer school. My 7 year old is NOT the average 7 year old; she is very mature for her age. IF she had been like her brother at 7, I would have never done this. We also went over rules and safety issues. We also have family who live close by and dh works 5 minutes away. Honestly, I have said that I feel safer leaving them alone at these ages than I will when they are 15, 13 and 10. At this point, my kids have no clue about the internet, they would never invite friends over, they have no desire to drink, smoke or any interest in the opposite sex. In 3 years, it will be a whole different world.









I also think if this mamma was going off to work, etc. responses would be different. When dh and I want to go out late at night, we get a sitter or arrange sleep overs for the kids. We might go out to dinner in the early evening and leave them at home together, but we do not go out late at night while the kids are sleeping.


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## my2kidz (Mar 25, 2008)

My 11 year old babysits her younger brother (6) occasionally for an hour or so while I run to the grocery store or a quick errand. We always have emergency phone numbers posted and have gone over safety rules several times. I have never left her alone at night and wouldn't do that because I would be too worried, even though we live next door to a cop and have two extremely protective guard dogs.

But I remember at 9 years old, I babysat at night with my infant sister who was around 6 months old at the time. I did just fine. It totally depends on the maturity of the child and how comfortable they are being left alone.

They have classes here that kids can start taking at 11 and it covers everything from what to do in an emergency to becoming CPR certified. I plan on enrolling her in that soon. But I still wouldn't leave her at night until she's older, it's not that she is not mature enough, it's just for my own peace of mind.

She does absolutely wonderful watching her brother while I run fast errands during the day though. They even surprised me once and washed dishes and cleaned the entire house while I was gone.







:


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

i not only babysat my brother at that age but i was paid to babysit other people's children. now however it is not done so much and at any rate would constitute child neglect in my state.


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## chiromamma (Feb 24, 2003)

I agree with it depending on the kids. I just reconnected with a friend of mine who absolutely has to work every day. Her kids are 13, 11 and 9. They are home alone all day (7:30am-3pm) this summer. The kids grocery shop, keep the house in decent shape, go to the library and pool and have a blast.
I could never do this with my kids because of their temperments.
Both 13yo DD and 11yo DS1 compete for power and arguments frequently erupt. I can leave them alone for 3-5 hours at the most.
My younger friend's kids listen to and defer to their big sister.


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