# Carseat straps...



## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

I can't remember, are they supposed to be at or slightly above shoulder level for rear-facing, or at or slightly below shoulder level? And front facing?

Right now, my three year old is forward facing; her straps are just above shoulder level. My 4 month old is rear facing; I just pulled her carseat to adjust her straps and had a brain fart. I remember thinking I may have re-threaded the straps on my 3 yo's carseat incorrectly the last time I washed them.

Neither girl will be in the car for the next 2-3 days, so this isn't uber urgent.

Thanks!!!


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Forward facing at or above shoulders

Rear facing at or below shoulders.

Your kids are almost the same gap as my last two (July 05 & Feb 08) isn't it a nice gap (sorry side note







)


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RachelEve14* 
Forward facing at or above shoulders

Rear facing at or below shoulders.

Your kids are almost the same gap as my last two (July 05 & Feb 08) isn't it a nice gap (sorry side note







)

Thanks! And, they're the same age gap...lol - Aug 05 & Mar 08! It is fun.


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## cognito (Nov 30, 2007)

Did you machine wash the straps or soak them? You' re not supposed to do either.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yep. Rf- straps at or below shoulders- ff at or above shoulders.

And if you washed the straps you will need to order new ones







:

-Angela


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Why are the straps not supposed to be washed?


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Because the process of washing them can cause the nylon to deteriorate to a point where it would no longer withstand the same forces it's been crash-tested for.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Hmm.

Well, I don't think my washing them once will cause them to deteriorate that badly. Certainly no more than leaving the gunk on them would have done.


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## UberMama (Feb 27, 2007)

It's not just the water necessarily. See this:

http://boards.babycenter.com/n/pfx/f...s9421&tid=2214

Cut and paste..

Quote:

Why can't I wash my harness straps or soak them in water?

Soaking the straps will remove the chemicals that make the harness fire resistant. The water won't damage the fibers.

Using detergent on the straps can weaken the harness fibers. Also, putting them in the washing machine can stretch the fibers if they get caught around the agitator. Never iron the straps to try to flatten them or use any other chemicals such as a fabric softener, bleach, starch, etc.

If in doubt about how to care for the harness, use a damp wash cloth and wipe it down. A toothbrush is great for getting in the little crevices of the straps.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Well, I didn't use detergent, nor did I put them in the machine.

I get being serious about the safety of your kids, but there comes a point when it feels like we're being told to live in plastic bubbles. I am not gonna spend money we don't have to replace straps I washed once (by hand in lukewarm water). To me, that's about as ridiculous as being told cell phones cause brain cancer or you shouldn't live within X miles of power lines.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
Well, I didn't use detergent, nor did I put them in the machine.

I get being serious about the safety of your kids, but there comes a point when it feels like we're being told to live in plastic bubbles. I am not gonna spend money we don't have to replace straps I washed once (by hand in lukewarm water). To me, that's about as ridiculous as being told cell phones cause brain cancer or you shouldn't live within X miles of power lines.









That's your choice...

But it will say VERY clearly in your car seat manual that, at most, you can wash the straps with a damp cloth.

If you soaked them - then some of the gunk can easily work it was deeper into the straps and weaken them.

It's normally a good idea to read the manual for you car seat BEFORE you do anything. It's just kind of common sense.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
That's your choice...

But it will say VERY clearly in your car seat manual that, at most, you can wash the straps with a damp cloth.

If you soaked them - then some of the gunk can easily work it was deeper into the straps and weaken them.

It's normally a good idea to read the manual for you car seat BEFORE you do anything. It's just kind of common sense.

Amen to that. It is expressly prohibited in the manual.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Hmmmm...considering how nasty some of the fire retardant chemicals are, soaking the straps sounds like it might make the carseat safer in some ways.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
Hmmmm...considering how nasty some of the fire retardant chemicals are, soaking the straps sounds like it might make the carseat safer in some ways.

Not at all. You want your child to be protected from fire in the car. It's not there to make your kid sick. Soaking will weaken them, so you'll have a car seat that will burn with straps that might not hold your kid in a crash.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Not at all. You want your child to be protected from fire in the car. It's not there to make your kid sick. Soaking will weaken them, so you'll have a car seat that will burn with straps that might not hold your kid in a crash.

According to what UberMama posted, soaking doesn't weaken the fibres, only removes the fire repelent. I wonder if the chances of a child ending up in a position where fire-retardent straps is a lifesaver is worth the prolonged exposure to chemicals. I'm running through scenarios in my mind, and coming up with a lot of ways that the fire-retardent in the straps would be irrelevant. Are there any good studies on that specific issue?


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
That's your choice...

But it will say VERY clearly in your car seat manual that, at most, you can wash the straps with a damp cloth.

If you soaked them - then some of the gunk can easily work it was deeper into the straps and weaken them.

It's normally a good idea to read the manual for you car seat BEFORE you do anything. It's just kind of common sense.

Wow, snarky much? I don't really see any reason for you to be *quite* that rude.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
According to what UberMama posted, soaking doesn't weaken the fibres, only removes the fire repelent. I wonder if the chances of a child ending up in a position where fire-retardent straps is a lifesaver is worth the prolonged exposure to chemicals. I'm running through scenarios in my mind, and coming up with a lot of ways that the fire-retardent in the straps would be irrelevant. Are there any good studies on that specific issue?

That's my thought as well. If the carseat is on fire or near enough to flames for the fire repellant chemicals on the straps to matter, chances are, her clothes would be on fire too.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
According to what UberMama posted, soaking doesn't weaken the fibres, only removes the fire repelent. I wonder if the chances of a child ending up in a position where fire-retardent straps is a lifesaver is worth the prolonged exposure to chemicals. I'm running through scenarios in my mind, and coming up with a lot of ways that the fire-retardent in the straps would be irrelevant. Are there any good studies on that specific issue?

Either way (whether it weakens the fibers or not) it is expressly prohibited in the manual. If your child is wearing clothes, they are not directly exposed to the chemicals in the straps.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Amen to that. It is expressly prohibited in the manual.

Wow. I had no clue.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
If your child is wearing clothes, they are not directly exposed to the chemicals in the straps.

Hands. Going from mouth to strap to mouth to strap.... and my kids don't always wear clothes

As for the manual, how do you distinguish between the statements that are for your child's protection, and the ones that are for the legal protection of the manufacturers?


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
As for the manual, how do you distinguish between the statements that are for your child's protection, and the ones that are for the legal protection of the manufacturers?

My thoughts are this: You don't.

If you choose to use a carseat - then you choose to follow the instruction.

If I wasn't comfortable following the instructions - I would not use a carseat. I would use other means of transportation. Since, in our case, that option sucks - I follow the instructions.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
My thoughts are this: You don't.

If you choose to use a carseat - then you choose to follow the instruction.

If I wasn't comfortable following the instructions - I would not use a carseat. I would use other means of transportation. Since, in our case, that option sucks - I follow the instructions.

Exactly.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

My thoughts are this: You don't.

If you choose to use a carseat - then you choose to follow the instruction.

If I wasn't comfortable following the instructions - I would not use a carseat. I would use other means of transportation. Since, in our case, that option sucks - I follow the instructions.










Since none of us can reliably predict how much damage is caused by going against a manufacturer's instructions, it doesn't make any sense to guess. Your child turns into a crash test dummy that way.


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

Well, then, I guess I don't love my kids and I am using them as crash test dummies. WOOT!!!


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
Well, then, I guess I don't love my kids and I am using them as crash test dummies. WOOT!!!









Me too


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

Well, then, I guess I don't love my kids and I am using them as crash test dummies. WOOT!!!
And that's something you can be sarcastic about? Wow.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

this cant be jsut about the flame retardant stuff though.

our car seats expressly allow washing the covers, which i do b/c i want to remove teh chemicals (yes, i know some disagree but my manual does permit it and thus i am still following my manual).

however, teh manual expressly states you cant submerge the straps or do anything other than wipe w/ a damp cloth (our seats are BVs).

logically, that leads me to believe there are OTHER reasons besides the flame retardant chemicals causing the manuf. to recommend against submerging the straps.

of course i have a friend who washes hers all the time and doesnt replace them. so i know its done...i just dont agree w/ it. My rule of thumb is simply not to do anything expressly prohibited by the manuf.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

logically, that leads me to believe there are OTHER reasons besides the flame retardant chemicals causing the manuf. to recommend against submerging the straps.
I've heard many techs say that washing (submerging in water) straps can weaken the fibers and change the way they behave in a collision; if they stretch more than they should, the child's body excursion could exceed what is safe.

Techs onboard here, does that sound right?


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

this is the same thing that is going on with our troops in the Persian countries (bear with me, I have a point) Their "bullet proof" vests are made of woven fibers, they are not meant to get completely "submerged" wet, but it's hot in Iraq and such and they sweat profusely, thus "fluffing" up the fibers, thus making them less "bullet proof" thus more of our troops are dying.

It's the same premise. It makes sense in my head that if the bullet proof vests are becoming less bullet proof because they have gotten wet, then our car seat straps will be less strong if they get wet. If the instructions say not to wash them, don't wash them, it's as simple as that.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyJoia* 
this is the same thing that is going on with our troops in the Persian countries (bear with me, I have a point) Their "bullet proof" vests are made of woven fibers, they are not meant to get completely "submerged" wet, but it's hot in Iraq and such and they sweat profusely, thus "fluffing" up the fibers, thus making them less "bullet proof" thus more of our troops are dying.

It's the same premise. It makes sense in my head that if the bullet proof vests are becoming less bullet proof because they have gotten wet, then our car seat straps will be less strong if they get wet. If the instructions say not to wash them, don't wash them, it's as simple as that.

That is very interesting. If the carseat straps are as vulnerable to damp as the bullet proof vests are, that's pretty dreadful/poor design considering the drool/vomit factor (in which case most kids are little crash test dummies







).


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
That is very interesting. If the carseat straps are as vulnerable to damp as the bullet proof vests are, that's pretty dreadful/poor design considering the drool/vomit factor (in which case most kids are little crash test dummies







).

The testing of the straps is pretty interesting, but one thing they do is test when the straps are dirty (sticky with juice, etc). The straps do pass the tests with a certain amount of gunk/liquid on them but it's not known whether they'd continue to pass with repeated washings/submergings. That's why it's not the end of the world if your kid drools on the straps.

Now, for all we know the straps will be fine after 1 or 2 or however many washings. But we _don't_ know at what point they will catastrophically fail. So the manufacturer says not to wash _at all_. Safer that way. Certainly more cut and dry (and likely to be followed) than "Only wash straps twice in their lifetime", which is more likely to not be followed due to forgetfulness, etc.


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## Astoria (May 27, 2004)

I actually think this is a fascinating thread.

I had no idea about not washing straps, though I never have done it myself. But I'm glad to know. Thanks everyone for sharing and for sharing possible reasoning behind it.

I actually don't let my children eat or drink in a carseat because I'm afraid in a choking situation I couldn't safely stop the car and reach them to perform first aid. So our straps don't really get so dirty. (Though I know spit up / throw up happens!!!) Do other people let their kids snack in carseats? Am I being uptight about that. It sure would make things easier. Especially on longer trips. But it doesn't sound like it could be safe to me, you know?


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## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

we have limits on what they're allowed to eat in a car (I'd never let a little one eat grapes, for instance - and there are no open cups allowed), but I never thought about it much. Choking is something that can happen anytime with anyone, so maybe I'm being naive about it.

We travel a lot by car, and I am always snacking/hungry, so I don't see a way for *me* to not eat in the car. I know I'm the boss, and I make the rules, but I don't see a way to say that it's ok for mom to eat, but not "you". I'll definitely do some thinking.

I do think that some behaviors are more risky than others, and I refuse to turn around while driving - or let my kids ride without appropriate restraint.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
I've heard many techs say that washing (submerging in water) straps can weaken the fibers and change the way they behave in a collision; if they stretch more than they should, the child's body excursion could exceed what is safe.

Techs onboard here, does that sound right?

thats my point.







(although i didnt make it very well i guess).

i have had a day from he** w/ car seats today though. i had to install one in a truck RF'ing then came home and took it out to install in my car. for some reason my car is not "recognizing my keY" so i tried to install another seat in the truck (we have a dr. appt) and couldnt get a proper fit. argh!!!! so i had to uninstall the one in my car and reinstall it in the back of the truc again. omg i am going to scream!!!!

but....i still did it..and did it correctly...as much as i HATED DOING IT!!! LOL!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
I've heard many techs say that washing (submerging in water) straps can weaken the fibers and change the way they behave in a collision; if they stretch more than they should, the child's body excursion could exceed what is safe.

Techs onboard here, does that sound right?

That's what we have been saying throughout this entire thread, so yes.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

That's what we have been saying throughout this entire thread, so yes.
haven't had time to read every single post- sorry. i have 6 kids here for 14 hours today, so i'm a bit rushed


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo* 
haven't had time to read every single post- sorry. i have 6 kids here for 14 hours today, so i'm a bit rushed









It's all good, I meant that in a non-snarky way


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I daresay someone else has already mentioned this, but today I learned that the goal with rear facing is to keep the baby pressed *down* into the seat. So it's at or below because that holds them *down* better.

Front-facing the straps are, as with adults and seat belts, for keeping the child from being thrown forward.

My carseat only allows for "at" in either direction not above or below.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
i have had a day from he** w/ car seats today though. i had to install one in a truck RF'ing then came home and took it out to install in my car. for some reason my car is not "recognizing my keY" so i tried to install another seat in the truck (we have a dr. appt) and couldnt get a proper fit. argh!!!! so i had to uninstall the one in my car and reinstall it in the back of the truc again. omg i am going to scream!!!!

but....i still did it..and did it correctly...as much as i HATED DOING IT!!! LOL!

I hear you, I don't own a car, so on those rare occasions that I need to use car seats it almost always need to wrestle them into a vehicle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
I daresay someone else has already mentioned this, but today I learned that the goal with rear facing is to keep the baby pressed *down* into the seat. So it's at or below because that holds them *down* better.

Front-facing the straps are, as with adults and seat belts, for keeping the child from being thrown forward.

My carseat only allows for "at" in either direction not above or below.

Okay, that makes sense, now I'll have an easier time remembering that.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I've studiously read my Radian manual cover to cover, and have posted questions here regarding different issues.

Having said that, I have also washed the straps on my carseat in lukewarm water to remove vomit and baby slime.

Do I know better now? Sure. Would I do it again? I hope not, but a damp cloth does not/will not remove my seven month old's projectile vomit.

I really, _really_ understand the inherent seriousness regarding car seat safety, and have received numerous kind and helpful responses in this forum.

For which I will continue to be thankful, and continue to visit here for assistance.

Having said that:

Quote:

It's normally a good idea to read the manual for you car seat BEFORE you do anything. It's just kind of common sense.
This was really unecessary; specifically the jab about common sense.

OP, I'm sorry this turned into a huge deal.


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