# dont want son going to hooters..am i wrong?



## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

i need help asap! my son is 15 and his friends are all going to hooters this evening. i really dont want to allow him to go and have denied him permission. of course he is putting me through a guilt trip. i dont like what the place stands for...can others please share their opinions of my decision?
thanks
Rach


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Umm, it's a restraunt. It has waitresses in tight tops and short shorts. He sees that every day at school, if not WORSE, from the girls there.

They have great wings.

But yeah, he sees the female form in tight tight shirts and short shorts/miniskirts every day at school. So unless you plan on pulling him from school so he doesn't see that.....

Anyway, they wont serve him alcohol anyway. He's only 15


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## ZachsMommy (Aug 29, 2005)

:

And while they have a less-than-covered dress code I knew a few girls that worked there and to them it's just another waitressing job 







They're not there to devour the men (or boys







) - they're there to make money(and get good tips







and unfortunately they make tips because they're pretty and not wearing a lot of clothes.) Some of them are moms (single or otherwise) just trying to make it!

And I agree - he's going to see a LOT worse on in school and on the streets.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

FWIW I wouldn't let my son go to Hooters.
Yes, you do see alot of women/girls who dress that way anyway, but you're not paying them to do so like you would be in a Hooters restaurant









Just my opinion, but I agree with your decision.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

i know he sees the same thing at school and on the street, etc. and i know the women there are not there to attack men/boys; and i know about the alcohol my prob is that if i permit it, i am basically condoning it. i dont deny him permission for much but the idea of this restaurant (only hiring women with short shorts and low cut shirts) is demeaning to me. im not trying to be holier than thou but arent i giving in to pressure and condoning the treatment (and my own values) if i say no? wont the lesson learned here be impt? maybe not now but some day?
rach


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Well he's 15.....I'd tell him how you feel about it, and allow him to make his own decision. He'll either come home agreeing with your, or not.

-Heather


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## rozzie'sma (Jul 6, 2005)

I wouldn't let him go. I think that place is gross. The food is overpriced as well.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I wouldn't care if he went.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I would have a problem with it, but not because I'd be afraid of him seeing women in tight short and tops. I wouldn't like it because I think it is degrading to women and exposure to this stuff and 'condoning' it would perhaps desensitize him somewhat?

But having said that, I would tell him he has to convince me he should be able to go there. I would talk to him about why I choose not to support that restaurant and why I would hope he'd not support it, but ultimately the decision would be his after he explained why it was important he went *there* and couldn't just go to any other restaurant.

I think a good discussion beforehand and maybe a follow up discussion would make this more of a 'teachable moment' than simply exerting my authority and not allowing him to go would, you know?

(for the record, I'd probably handle a trip to McDonald's and WalMart the same exact way.







)


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I think a good discussion beforehand and maybe a follow up discussion would make this more of a 'teachable moment' than simply exerting my authority and not allowing him to go would, you know?









:


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers*
Well he's 15.....I'd tell him how you feel about it, and allow him to make his own decision. He'll either come home agreeing with your, or not.

-Heather









: If I were you I would explain my position, and let him decide. He is definately old enough IMO. To be fair though, I would have no issue with my son going. Best of luck with whatever you do. I am sure it's not an easy situation.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

At 15 it wouldnt occur to me to refuse permission to eat at a restaurant.
I would tell him how you feel and why you object. But a 15 year old shouldnt have to say to his friends "My mommy wont let me.".
Now if he wanted to go to Hooters if he was grounded, or after curfew, or whatever that is one thing. But I think that it is because of your opinion of the restaurant that is going to seem extremely arbitrary and unfair to a 15 year old.
joline


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Sounds like a good opening for an honest discussion. Sure, you could forbid it now. But what good is that going to do in 2 or 3 years when he's on his own? Then he will be REALLY eager to see what the fuss is about.

-Angela


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

I think our job as parents is to make sure our children grow into responsible teenagers that can tell right from wrong and appropriate from inappropriate without us denying them priveleges. I think if you have always assured your son that women who dress this way are subjecting themselves to certain critism and scrutiny and that you want him to think of women as respectable human beings, then you can be sure he has picked up these veiws from you. More importantly, how does your husband treat other women, especially you? If your son has always been taught by men in his life to be respectful of women, then you should be confident allowing your teen to use his own judgement. You have to remember though that not all women are deserving of respect, and a woman that is okay with being paid to use her body as a selling point may be insecure or have low levels of self-worth. Maybe that is something else to share with him; to remind him that patronizing their restaurant may encourage these women that their behavior is okay. But ultimately, it may be time to let him start making his own decisions on things like this.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

I agree with pp who said to use this as a teachable moment. I would simply explain to him how I feel about it (the restaurant encourages patrons to view women as objects rather than as intelligent human beings and that, as a woman, I object to this and won't give them my money) or however you want to phrase it. I'm sure he'll decide to go anyway, but, ya know, he'll have something to think about while he's there. I think it's an excellent opportunity.

When he gets back, don't push him for info, just see if he brings it up some day and shares what he thought of the experience.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

i wouldn't let my son go to hooters. it's one thing to see women walking around in practically nothing, as it happens on the street and in school all the time... it's another thing to give your buisness to a place that uses women as a commodity. hooters is hooters so that men can oogle the young women in short shorts that are serving them food. if it was about the wings, why not go somewhere else with better food and a more appropriate uniform? (um, pretty much everywhere else)

i wasn't allowed to do a lot of things my friends were allowed to do, and while i hated my mom for it then, i THANK her for it now.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

thanks for everyone's replies. they helped me sort out my own position and some of them affirmed that i am not being a "bad" mom for saying no. i rarely say no...really i don't. i just really saw this as being put in a situation where i had to either grant permission to do something that i was really against (the theme of the restaurant not the idea of eating out with friends) vs. making my position known to him (not that he doesnt know it already).
everything is funny to a 15 year old...and Hooters is definitely on that list. but the mom who was taking these boys was getting permission from each of them...i dont know how many moms said yes and how many said no, but i just couldnt come down on the "its ok" side.
its not the sex that i dont condone...i am really open to talking to him about sex and risks, etc. I am very open minded regarding those things...but i am not open minded when it comes to businesses who condone treating women like sex objects (ok in the b/r, not in a restaurant). its just not something i want to support. we as a culture get bombarded with it all the time and its generally something that is forbidden...sex is not the issue with this, although i have to admit i dont know how this differs from a playboy magazine which is in business to do the same thing. i dont know...i just wanted him to think about how women should be viewed (for this mind, sense of humor, etc.) in addition to the sexual aspects perpetuated by Hooters. sure he will look at the legs, etc. when he's looking at women (just like we look at physical aspects of males) but hopefully he will look further than that...at least that is what i am hoping.
it turned out pretty well...he isnt complaining about not going.. he has a few friends over and everything seems fine.
thanks again!
Rach


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Is this a mom that's taking them? That's kind of weird, if you ask me. I assumed the boys were getting there on their own. I can't put my finger on exactly why but that affects how I feel about the issue. I mean if she's TAKING them that puts it onto a whole different level of an adult woman who is in some ways a role model or authority figure condoning the trip. I feel like it's different if they just felt like going on their own...I could sort of put it down to curiosity/exploration that DS would want to just go one time to see what it's all about.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

:


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I would take my son to Hooters. I would eat at Hooters. Perhaps the mom taking them feels the same way?


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

But the mom asking permission for a bunch of 15 year olds almost seems to show that she thinks she is doing somethign cagy or forbidden.
And giving explicit permission to go to that restaurant and just letting your ds go to a restaurant of his choice are two different things.
That does shed a little new light on it


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## ernie (Jun 2, 2005)

You cannot kept your child from going out to eat with his friends at Hooters, when a boy is 15 years old a mother needs to let her son make some of his own decisions. Give your son some freedom and be understanding with him, and in return he will be more open and willing to communicate with you. If you are to strict with your son he will rebel against you! If a mother is too strict children will go wild, but also if a mother is too lenent a child will go wild. There needs to be happy medium. Be respectful and understanding of your son and let him make choices. Hey many teens are engaging in sex, drinking and during drugs, if deciding to let your son go to Hooters is the biggest thing that you have to worry about RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
But the mom asking permission for a bunch of 15 year olds almost seems to show that she thinks she is doing somethign cagy or forbidden.
And giving explicit permission to go to that restaurant and just letting your ds go to a restaurant of his choice are two different things.
That does shed a little new light on it


I disagree. I think the mom is being respectful. I would be agravated if my 15 year old didn't ask for permission to go to the movies or out to eat (ok, at 15 maybe more of notification of other plans). If I am going to take kids out I will ask them to get permission whether they are 5 or 15. There might be more reasons that not feeling Hooters are appropriate. What if the 15 year old parents have other plans or obligations? What if the 15 year old needs to study? There is a lot of reasons for a 15 year old needing permission/parent informing.

I see no problems with Hooters. I would let my child go. I also think their food taste ok. I think Wing Stop has better wings and I would tell that to my kids.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
... it's one thing to see women walking around in practically nothing, as it happens on the street and in school all the time... it's another thing to give your buisness to a place that uses women as a commodity. hooters is hooters so that men can oogle the young women in short shorts that are serving them food. if it was about the wings, why not go somewhere else with better food and a more appropriate uniform? (um, pretty much everywhere else)...

So he can ogle women as long as they don't give him food that he has to pay for? Ooookay.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
So he can ogle women as long as they don't give him food that he has to pay for? Ooookay.

that isn't what i meant.







:

the problem with hooters is not that there are women there that wear short shorts and tight shirts. you don't have to go to hooters to see hooters. that doesn't mean i think someone can or should ogle anyone in any other circumstance. i just have a problem with using the female body as a commodity, as hooters does. hooters wouldn't be hooters if they were just about the food.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
If I am going to take kids out I will ask them to get permission whether they are 5 or 15. There might be more reasons that not feeling Hooters are appropriate. What if the 15 year old parents have other plans or obligations? What if the 15 year old needs to study? There is a lot of reasons for a 15 year old needing permission/parent informing.









I would get the go ahead before I took someone elses child/teen anywhere.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
that isn't what i meant.







:

the problem with hooters is not that there are women there that wear short shorts and tight shirts. you don't have to go to hooters to see hooters. that doesn't mean i think someone can or should ogle anyone in any other circumstance. i just have a problem with using the female body as a commodity, as hooters does. hooters wouldn't be hooters if they were just about the food.

The women at Hooters are there voluntarily. At least they are getting paid to be looked at, they get a benefit out of it.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
The women at Hooters are there voluntarily. At least they are getting paid to be looked at, they get a benefit out of it.

that's certainly their perogative... but that doesn't mean i have to be OK about hooters' hiring process, or with the whole idea of hooters in general. it certainly doesn't mean that i have to allow my children to hang out there.


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## leahr (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunRayeMomi*
You have to remember though that not all women are deserving of respect, and a woman that is okay with being paid to use her body as a selling point may be insecure or have low levels of self-worth.

This statement blew me away. every one deserves respect wether you agree with what they do for a living or not. A women who is insecure or has low levels of self-worth needs respect more than anyone else.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

I would let him go. I mean, it is a restaurant, not a strip club.


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## Luke'N'Mom24/7 (May 21, 2005)

You're not wrong in not wanting him to go. You're trying to do what's right in bringing up your son, and you don't want him to have the idea that women should be oggled and treated as objects. I feel the same way, my DH took our DS to Hooters a few times (hey, we're just going to watch the game and have some wings, geez, lighten up!) and I pitched a fit about it, but they still went. It doesn't seem to have had much of an affect on him (tho he was much younger than your son--definitely not interested in girls at that time).

Just keep the lines of communication open with your son and he'll hopefully learn from you how a woman deserves to be treated.


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

oh this thread makes me so glad my son is only 6 months old! :LOL

I would be very disappointed in my son if he chose to go there- I wouldn't forbid it but I would let him know that I thought he was better than that- I thought he was the type of guy who saw through the societal bull$#%* that makes Hooters such a popular thing anyway. I hope he has more respect for women than that- although I know how persuasive friends can be- I guess I would just tell him I thought he was classier than all that crap. The "you're better than that, why are you doing that?" bit always worked better on me than strictly forbidding something.

Yeah the girls are there voluntarily but IMO this is just a societal problem- part of the same problem that makes breastfeeding so taboo- because breasts are so hyper-sexualized. Grown men going to a breast-themed restaurant


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leahr*
This statement blew me away. every one deserves respect wether you agree with what they do for a living or not. A women who is insecure or has low levels of self-worth needs respect more than anyone else.

Not meaning to "blow anyone away" here. Ya know, maybe I am being biased here, but I have friends that do or have worked at this restaurant. I have friends that do or have worked at strip clubs as strippers or waitresses. Some of these girls have done it for the money, and hey, more power to them. I'm not judging if they're going to be smart about the way they run their life. They grew up, and are done with it. They've moved on. I have one friend though, who happens to be my _best_ friend actually, that just can't seem to learn from the mistakes she has made that are directly correlated to these places. I won't bore you with all of them, but rest assured there have been enough and they have been sever enough to where you would think that she would have gained some knowledge and sense and learned a lesson or two. I love my friend. But I do not respect her decisions over 50% of the time. And being her best friend, I have to take the time to help her set her mistakes right, which happens to be emotionally draining for me sometimes. So perhaps what I was really saying is that we don't have to respect the _decisions_ of all women, or anyone for that matter. I think maybe you took me a little too literally. After all, I didn't say anything about _showing_ disrespect to anyone. I of course don't condone that kind of behaviour.


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## LDSmomma6 (Oct 31, 2003)

I have a big problem with it. I am raising my children, and my 15 yr old son, to have high standards with morality and modesty, which Hooters have none of those. True, the girls wear worse in school, but in all honesty, our school don't allow short shorts like that, and they aren't allowed to show their belly, or have low-cut shirts. As long as my son is living in my house, he has to obey the rules, and if he doesn't there are consquences. If he chooses to go without me knowing? Well, then I would be disappointed, and maybe have to limit his "goings" with friends. Besides, there isn't a Hooters here anyway (yet) so I'm not worried about it.


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## mlsantarem (May 4, 2004)

I just couldn´t resist adding my two cents.
I remember years ago visiting with my husband´s family (when he was my BF) anyway we went for a very long walk and ended up and this reformed boardwalk that had all sorts of cafes and bars it was late afternoon and we wanted a beer. We see a sign for Hooters. I think that it has something to do with Owls...So we go in...sit down and the waitress asked us for our order and my husband and I just look at each other and say OH THOSE HOOTERS. It was very uncomfortable to see women displayed as such obvious sex objects and a comodity. I don´t think I would be confortable telling my son he couldn´t go though I would tell him my opinion and definately have my husband weigh in but not refuse. (I say this now my kids are 8,6,2). I don´t know how comfortable we would be bringing our children to a place that sold great frys called ´big balls´.... What can I say there are lots of places to get french fries and chicken wings.
Good luck
MLsantarem


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## LizD (Feb 22, 2002)

A lot of families go to Hooters. I have never gone there, but I'm a vegetarian, so it's moot.

In a couple of years he can and will go to a strip club (which I personally have no problem with; I've known a lot of strippers and have been to some decent clubs myself. They are not necessarily the degrading scene so many make them out to be), and won't need to discuss it with you. Of course you can forbid him anything while he lives in your house and is supported by you (up to a point), but I have to agree that a 15 year old has absorbed whatever of your values he is going to, and shouldn't have to say "I'm not allowed," and isn't going to want to hear your reasoning right now. Anything completely ordinary that my mother forbade me to do (and whether you like it or not, Hooters is quite mainstream for most people; it's just a restaurant) only made me resentful, deceitful, closed, and I *don't* thank her for it now. This is the time for him to stretch and bend a little, and be one of the gang no matter what you think. Better he does that now, and the "scandal" is going to Hooters, than need to go completely nuts when he's out of the house, as many young people do. Just my two cents, of course, and please no flames on my opinions; the OP asked for our opinions. I haven't bashed anyone else's so please don't bash mine.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

The OP said she told her son to stay home. He was okay with that, and had a few friends over.

~Nay


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I think this is a "boy" thing. My ds, also 15, had been talking about Hooters for a year, but the nearest one is 2 hours away. He finally had the chance to go with friends. I don't know what he expected in there, but his only comment when he got home was "The wings were all right." He has not mentioned it again, and when we go to that town, he always suggests another restaurant when it's time to eat. I think the Hooters "experience" is blown up in their minds to be bigger than the reality.


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## momma2finn (Sep 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *enkmom*
I think this is a "boy" thing. My ds, also 15, had been talking about Hooters for a year, but the nearest one is 2 hours away. He finally had the chance to go with friends. I don't know what he expected in there, but his only comment when he got home was "The wings were all right." He has not mentioned it again, and when we go to that town, he always suggests another restaurant when it's time to eat. I think the Hooters "experience" is blown up in their minds to be bigger than the reality.









:
My mom raised my brother and I alone, and when he was about 15, the SAME thing happened. He is now one of the most sensitive and caring men I know. He does not have a bad opinion of women(and he certianly is not impressed with Hooters!), if anything, going to Hooters at a young age and having it demystified opened him up to understanding what's wrong with the way we treat women.


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## Bethanydear (May 14, 2003)

Oh, heck NAH would my 15 yr old ds be going to Hooters. Just NOT my family's style.


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## Curious Me (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leahr*
every one deserves respect wether you agree with what they do for a living or not. A women who is insecure or has low levels of self-worth needs respect more than anyone else.

Absolutely!


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## pjlioness (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I would have a problem with it, but not because I'd be afraid of him seeing women in tight short and tops. I wouldn't like it because I think it is degrading to women and exposure to this stuff and 'condoning' it would perhaps desensitize him somewhat?

But having said that, I would tell him he has to convince me he should be able to go there. I would talk to him about why I choose not to support that restaurant and why I would hope he'd not support it, but ultimately the decision would be his after he explained why it was important he went *there* and couldn't just go to any other restaurant.

I think a good discussion beforehand and maybe a follow up discussion would make this more of a 'teachable moment' than simply exerting my authority and not allowing him to go would, you know?

(for the record, I'd probably handle a trip to McDonald's and WalMart the same exact way.







)

I like your ideas.

There is one thing I keep thinking about doing - having a nurse-in at a Hooters, filling as many tables as possible.














If that were going on, I'd be perfectly happy to drag a 15yo son along.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

Yeah the girls are there voluntarily but IMO this is just a societal problem- part of the same problem that makes breastfeeding so taboo- because breasts are so hyper-sexualized. Grown men going to a breast-themed restaurant
Thank you!









I think breasts are beautiful, but we're always complaining when folks think we're doing something indecent when we're simply feeding our children. THIS is one reason why folks think we're doing something indecent.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

When I was younger I had a friend who had been a waitress for 10 years and rocked at it. She wanted to work at Hooters. She applied and was called in for the interview. She said that almost immediately upon arriving for the interview she was told that she was perfectly qualified but they couldn't hire her because she didn't fit their image because she was too fat. I won't support a company that discriminates like that... no way, no how. I don't care about how good their wings are. I won't even buy their products in the store.


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## Whisper (Jul 12, 2002)

I guess I would agree with those who said that they wouldn't forbid your son to go to Hooters but he would know your views and then would make his own judgement.

I felt your pain, though, with this.

I do not say no often, either but occasionally you just feel so strongly about something.

But my ds, who is a freshman in college this semester at a college not far from home -- about an hour away -- but a college which was voted one of the top "Party" colleges in the U.S. -- recently told my dh and I over dinner when I asked him if Madison was living up to its big-time-party reputation that the kids who are running around partying like crazy there are kids who have never been allowed choices in their lives. They were never given freedom, he said, and now they are running around like fools because they don't know how to handle it.

Then he said, you did a good job in raising me. I hade frredom to make choices and now I have nothing to prove.

At this point my dh and I were sitting with our jaws hanging open!

I mean, just to have him say that so matter-of-factly...I wanted to cry!

This from a boy who has said hurtful things to me in the past when he was angry or frustrated.

I'm not sure exactly what freedom he meant though. You know, I was never big on curfew, everything was always preety much negotiable, when he did "get into trouble" -- which was rare, but -- he would tell me and we'd talk.

I'm not sure if he has ever been to Hooters. I HOPE not. But if he did, he's still a nice boy who respects women (despite his mother on a few occasions)and he makes overall good choices.


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## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

Um...I used to work at a place very much like Hooters many many moons and incarnations ago







:
I am also a mom of son (although he is only 4).
A couple of comments:

1) I was constantly being reminded about my weight if I gained. I heard comments from co-workers and one owner said, "You're a really pretty girl, now if you'd just lose 10 lbs). I was also reminded to "doll-up" the hair and make-up.

2) I think that people who go into those places don't necessarily support ideas that women have to look like barbies or "doll-up" to be beautiful but if you support those kind of businesses with your money, you are supporting owners who support those ideas.
Even if it is a restaurant, they know what sells and promote sales using women in short shorts and "dolled-up" hair/faces.

Maybe it is a teachable moment. Admittedly, I don't have as many years of experience as a parent as most of you.
Just thought to add a little persective from a different angle.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel*
Um...I used to work at a place very much like Hooters many many moons and incarnations ago







:

So did I. when I was 18 I figured out that I could make a lot of money working as a waitress in a strip club. It was a learning experience that's for sure. I think having been on both sides of the situation (also many moons ago I was a radical feminist) helped me really understand the greater concept. As far as the sex industry goes, I support some aspects but not others. Hooters is one thing that I don't really care if it exists. I dont oppose it. And I wouldnt take my children there. But if I had a teenaged son who wanted to see it, I'd possibly support that as a learning experience. Though I'd want my SO or someone else who I know respects women to take him.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomiEilis*
i wouldn't let my son go to hooters. it's one thing to see women walking around in practically nothing, as it happens on the street and in school all the time... it's another thing to give your buisness to a place that uses women as a commodity.









:


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## Girl In The Fire (Apr 6, 2005)

Quote:

She said that almost immediately upon arriving for the interview she was told that she was perfectly qualified but they couldn't hire her because she didn't fit their image because she was too fat.
I wonder if that depends on the management. My husband and I used to go to the Hooters by us. They had one girl that worked there that was definitley "pleasantly plump" she was a pretty girl just much heavier than the other girls there... She worked there for atleast 2-3 years we havent been there in a while but I wouldnt be suprised if she was still there. There were also girls that worked there that were very flat chested or just not good looking. I would think if this particular Hooters was hiring based on a certain "look" they would not have hired many of the girls that worked there.

Not hiring girls based on weight or a certain look doesnt just happen at places like Hooters. I used to waitress years ago at family restraunts, many of them would only hire thin pretty women, some even asked your weight on applications!


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit*
When I was younger I had a friend who had been a waitress for 10 years and rocked at it. She wanted to work at Hooters. She applied and was called in for the interview. She said that almost immediately upon arriving for the interview she was told that she was perfectly qualified but they couldn't hire her because she didn't fit their image because she was too fat. I won't support a company that discriminates like that... no way, no how. I don't care about how good their wings are. I won't even buy their products in the store.


I won't support a company like that either, but we weren't talking about *us*, we were talking about our theoretical 15 year old sons. I don't really know that it's OK to dictate what your 15 year old should boycott, yk? At that point he is old enough to start learning about these things for himself and you have to trust that your values have rubbed off on him enough. I don't think forcing him to not support a business is going to work, it will likely just make it that much more alluring to him.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I won't support a company like that either, but we weren't talking about *us*, we were talking about our theoretical 15 year old sons. I don't really know that it's OK to dictate what your 15 year old should boycott, yk? At that point he is old enough to start learning about these things for himself and you have to trust that your values have rubbed off on him enough. I don't think forcing him to not support a business is going to work, it will likely just make it that much more alluring to him.

Well, that's fine then if that's how you feel, but my family knows that I feel VERY strongly about this and no one in my family is allowed to go to Hooters or buy their products. Right now my oldest DD is only 9, but if when she moves out on her own she wants to go to Hooters that'll be her right... until then she follows my rules, and that means no Hooters. I feel that giving permission for her (or my hypothetical son) to go to a place that I feel very strongly against would be hypocritical of me and weaken my stand.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
I won't support a company like that either, but we weren't talking about *us*, we were talking about our theoretical 15 year old sons. I don't really know that it's OK to dictate what your 15 year old should boycott, yk? At that point he is old enough to start learning about these things for himself and you have to trust that your values have rubbed off on him enough. I don't think forcing him to not support a business is going to work, it will likely just make it that much more alluring to him.

Word.


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## HaveWool~Will Felt (Apr 26, 2004)

I am finding it really interesting reading this thread.


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## bunnyoven (Nov 2, 2005)

That's a hard one. I wouldn't want mine going, but I could also understand why he would want to, plus there's the whole fitting in with his friends and all that. I might just use my veto power to explain why Hooters was a horrible place and let him decide. At least I'd have gotten my two cents in without a huge fight.


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## paganmommy (Nov 9, 2004)

YOu see, we live in a patriarchal society and it would seem absurd that someone would open up a restaurant called " Big Penises" but if it's a restaurant demeaning women then it's fine, normal, ok. I know there are girls in tight skirts, shirts, t-shirts and everywhere we look our children are bombarded with sexual images but that doesn't mean we give up, that we condone it. I'm not a prude, I am a woman who has two boys and I see already the effects of this society is having on my children. I use these opportunities constantly to remind them that my breasts are beautiful, and are for feeding my children as well. Listen to your heart, you already know what feels right to you and your family.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I wouldn't let my 15 year old (male or female) do that and as a parent I have no problem telling a 15 year old what they can and cannot do.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paganmommy*
YOu see, we live in a patriarchal society and it would seem absurd that someone would open up a restaurant called " Big Penises" but if it's a restaurant demeaning women then it's fine, normal, ok.


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## paganmommy (Nov 9, 2004)

You liked that huh? Yeah, this crap pisses me off.


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## 13moons (Aug 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paganmommy*
YOu see, we live in a patriarchal society and it would seem absurd that someone would open up a restaurant called " Big Penises"

Oh come on, you know it couldn't be called by the actual name for the body part...you'd have to call it, like, Cocks or something and the logo could be a rooster with a great big beak.....

Seriously though, I do agree with you and while my son is only 5.5, I hope he too will grow to have far more respect and admiration for the female body than society as a whole does. I am glad it worked out well for the OP and that it sounds like her ds was okay with the way it turned out.

And FWIW, I never as a teen experienced that whole "my parents said no so then I must partake of it " phenomenon so I will not accept the idea that just because I've said no to something, it is automatically going to make my dc want to do it more. My parents respected my ability to make good decisions for myself. I knew what their values were and that if they said no to something it was because it was truly important to them and not just arbitrary. I hope I have the same mutually respectful relationship and open communication with my kids as they grow older.


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## chiro_kristin (Dec 31, 2004)

I was thinking something like "Pythons" but I think Cocks is better.

I agree, 13moons, about not all children not being allowed to do something go crazy when out on their own. I definitely experienced the "rules" of my parents' household, but any limitations were always in the context of discussion and mutual respect. Since that dialogue started in early childhood, as a teenager I made pretty good decisions and didn't need to be told "no" very much. For example, I had no curfew because my parents found that I came home at a reasonable time. I didn't attend many parties in my small town because I knew that if the party got broken up, I might lose potential scholarships I needed to afford college. When I went to college, I could see the difference between the kids whose parents held them under a dictatorial thumb and those who had a home with good communication.

I'm glad the OP made the decision she felt was right for her family. And judging by her ds's response, she must have an open relationship with him, which is great with a teenager.


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## marycatlumom (Oct 21, 2003)

I would let my son go to Hooters with one condition: that I go along with him. Maybe he would be less likely to want to go, or maybe he would think about the fact that all those women using their tits for tips are someone else's mothers/daugthers/sisters. Ask him how he would feel if his mother or sister worked there!


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## paganmommy (Nov 9, 2004)

I agree that communication is key when it comes to anything going on in the family but there will be times when our children, teenager, etc. will not agree with our decisions and that is where being a parent comes into play. It is also the hardest part I believe in being a parent. I am already dealing with this with my 12 year old. He is constantly pushing the envelope with me and I am having to decide frequently when to back down and when to put my foot down. Good luck to all of you and please wish me good luck too, this stuff is hard.


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## jensoko (Jan 29, 2002)

I'd definitely use it as a teachable moment. Parental influences are strong enough that one visit to Hooters will not remove years of training in respect. And I can understand the boycott aspect as wel. However, as long as Hooters is in business, I will have a handy comeback for people who have a problem with me breastfeeding in restaurants. Because I can helpfully point out that if people really had a problem with breasts and food, Hooters would not be permitted to serve wings. 

I know the OP already made her decision and it turned out to be no biggie, which is good news. But if I were in the same position, I now know what I'd do. In fact, my DS is four, and I expect in ten or twelve years, I'll be in the same position, and I hope I remember this thread. I'd tell him I wasn't forbidding him to go, but that I felt the company's discrimination policy was prohibitive and offensive, and the power of using my money and my feet to register my approval or disapproval, and how I choose not to patronize places that behave so towards their employees, and let him absorb that.

However, I also understand that Hooters, in spite of prohibitive employment practices, does, in fact provide people with jobs, and some of those people may not have jobs otherwise, and may need the money to support families. To be quite honest, if I had the body and I needed the money badly enough to support my kids, then yeah, if some guy wants to slip me an extra ten-spot because I wear a tight t-shirt, and that meant my kids got shoes, then great.


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## beeflie (Jul 10, 2005)

My knee jerk reaction was that I wouldn't let him go. But then I would rather him (thinking of my son in the future) be able to see behind the "T 'n' A" to a real person. I think I would allow him to go, say why the place bothers me and ask him to bring back some information for me. I would ask him to find out something "human" about one of the waitresses, such as, what she's studying at college and maybe what kind of a career she plans to get.

A small thing, maybe, but then it would allow us to have a conversation about it later.


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## BamBam'sMom (Jun 4, 2005)

I agree that it's really strange that a mom is taking them.

One of dh's friends was married to a woman who, IMO, is very degrading to women. She bought him a really trashy Carmen Electra calender for the bathroom he shares with her 12-year-old son. It's one thing for curious boys to look at women like that, but it's completely different for his own mother to condone something like that. She's sending him a really bad message.

At 15, boys and girls are very desensitized to women being treated as objects. I think it's great that you're discussing these things with him. I think he will at least understand your point of view and see things your way when he's older.

Good for you for setting a good example.


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## assenavadnama (Oct 10, 2005)

As someone said above, he definately sees worse at school, on TV, and everywhere else he looks.

Ironically, my son's father is a chef there, and he regularly takes my son there to eat. He even has a Hooters T-shirt. My son is THREE. Doesn't bother me at all.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

As far as I am concerned, Hooters is a noxious symbol of a culture that objectifies and exploits women, and it makes me sick.

I would tell my son that, and I would tell him why.. and it would be his decision whether to go or not.
I imagine most 15 year old boys would choose to go.. but I would hope my words stayed with him and that he pondered them as he ate his wings.

I think it is very important for teenagers to be given the opportunity to work these things through for themselves.
The teen years are for deciding who you are.. for finding out what does and doesn't resonate with you.
I think 15 is too old to be forbidden to eat at a restaurant because of a parent's personal belief system. It is the age where you are developing a belief system of your own.. and such experiences are necessary to exercise those muscles.

OP, I don't think you are a bad person or bad parent for making the choice you did. But I think you missed an opportunity to guide your son in learning to make those choices for himself.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

I would have done as the OP did.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
I think it is very important for teenagers to be given the opportunity to work these things through for themselves.
The teen years are for deciding who you are.. for finding out what does and doesn't resonate with you.
I think 15 is too old to be forbidden to eat at a restaurant because of a parent's personal belief system. It is the age where you are developing a belief system of your own.. and such experiences are necessary to exercise those muscles.

I agree with the basic sentiment here, and I agree with the pp's who would use this as a teachable moment. (I think the OP did this by the way -- she hardly ever forbids things, so her ds knows that this is a *big* deal to her as a woman, and seems to be content to respect her in this situation. A successful outcome, IMO.) But I would peg the age a bit older for most boys, that's all. I think kids grow up way too fast in our culture. I think it's asking too much of a 15 y.o. boy to throw him and his raging hormones into Hooters and ask him to see past the boobs to the objectification of the women there and in our culture at large. I think he'd come home feeling shame more than anything, and I don't want my son to associate breasts with shame. Some 15 y.o. boys may be able to handle this kind of reality lesson, but I wouldn't ask it of my son at that age. I think he'd be better equiped to do it later, when he's closer to being a man than a boy; when he is better able to understand that his instinctual reactions to a woman's body are normal, and it's his rational and conscious choice to respect women that determines his character and morality.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

thanks for all the comments, and the support.
my ds is a wonderful son, but he is also a bit immature at this age, and i agree that i dont think he would have contemplated my issues while eating at Hooters. it really isn't even mentioned at this point, other than he and his friends now have a bunch of jokes about how commercials "objectify" women. they do it to get my goat, so to speak, but as far as i am concerned, they at least understand the concept now (they asked me what it meant and i tried to explain). as 15 year old will, they joke and laugh about it (as well as breasts, homosexuality, etc.) but i have to believe that something is sinking in here and there is no hard feelings by my son toward me for this (he is too busy hating me for making him do chores (which of course, no other kids in our neck of the woods have to do).
rach


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

anyone remember this...?

Quote:

As an eighth-grader in Ames Middle School in Ames, Iowa, Erin Rollenhagen spoke out against sexism in her school. In response to the Hooters restaurant t-shirts the boys in her school were wearing, which showed an owl whose eyes resembled women's breasts and the words "More than a Mouthful" written on the back, Rollenhagen and several friends created their own parody t-shirts, "Cocks--Nothing to Crow About," with the graphic of a rooster on the front. Several of the Ames students were suspended when they refused to turn the "Cocks" shirts inside-out while they are at school. Eventually both shirts were banned from the school, and the suspended students were allowed back to school. The incident received national attention and Rollenhagen was asked to write an account for Seventeen magazine.


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## Avocado (Oct 4, 2005)

I go to Hooters every Sunday with my family and friends (I love the grilled cheese, my dh loves the wings), we've made it our Sunday thing. I think if you say no, all it does is make him more curious, and he will go there anyway, he just won't tell you next time.


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## oldfashionmama (Feb 6, 2003)

SOMEONE WROTE: As far as I am concerned, Hooters is a noxious symbol of a culture that objectifies and exploits women, and it makes me sick I SO AGREE!!!

but i disagree that a child of 15 should be allowed to make his own decision about this. they are under our care and guidance til they are adults and in our country that's 18. he needs more time to learn the right way of thinking rather than just his peers - who are in the same muddled mess of teen years he is.
a child needs to be taught to respect others and hooters isn't the place to do that.


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## fugeeo (Apr 23, 2005)

I am a fellow in my mid thirties. I grew up with a single mom and an older sister, so I have been around women most of my life. Even my childs momma has only sisters and very few males in her family.

I have had a chance to visit other parts of the world. Like India, China, Mexico, South America ...

You don't see things like Hooters. You may find something similar in Europe. Where I live now, in the Caribbean you don't see this either. There is more discussion about sex. Caribbean people are fairly explicit, but they do not show off.

I find this around the world except in the US and Europe.

I was raised in the US, in California, in New Mexico ...

Let me just say this, a place like Hooters plagues the mind, it deteriorates the soul. It churns body consciousness, and spoils soul consciousness. It may be "fun" because lust is an attraction of the senses. The senses like things "fun". But there are other things in this world with alot more pleasure. There are true joys ...

Yes, girls wear skimpy dresses to school, and that indeed is a problem. These attitudes are destroying people in multitudes, causing people to waste hard earned money on frivolities, instead of raising children with a united family, today in the US there is a divorce rate greater than 40%. You think that when people see these things repeatedly, that the "average" population does not lose self-esteem. As long as these things continue, people will always choose the senses over doing the right thing.

Wise up america and europe and those that want to be "american". America is not what it used to be, and it now chooses to spend without virtue, and so, there is no virtue.

A country that acts without virtue will suffer for its own debilitation.
That is what the revelations discuss, or any other religion, this is the era of deterioration of virtue, and the only way to get it back is through self-discovery.

turn off the tv, and learn to see a life of pure values. after a month without tv, you will see a great difference in your mental energies.


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## karinasusy (Jul 12, 2005)

I see there are tons of replies here, but I couldn't resist tagging on one from myself.

Hooters is just one of many restaurants where women are barely dressed. It's stupid and pathetic. Almost naked women are also readily seen on the cover of most magazines at the grocery store or local news/snack shop on every street corner. There is a horrendous cover on the current FHM magazine. It's disgusting. Not to mention all the lingerie shops, where blown-up women lean seductively in their super-sized bras and barely-there panties in shop windows.

It's not only a bad scene for our boys to see, but horrible for all the girls out there too.

Bottom line is, you can't hide from it. Talk about it: What are their values and morals? Don't go over the top; that will only push them in the other direction.

I might not be happy about my son going to Hooters, but I'd be thanking God it's not the all night crack house.


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## mamastar (Oct 29, 2005)

Yikes, I don't think I had any money when I was 15! HOwever, if I were you I'd let him go because he knows how you feel. I'm a mom now and I've turned into my MOM!!! She was totally granola. When I was 15 through 19 my goal was to eat as much sugar, junk, soda, etc as I could, along with try to buy as much designer this and that. Now, I'm even more militant than she is about food to my family. My little ones aren't ever allowed to watch TV. So, don't worry. He knows your values. He has to find them and he will!

;>


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## SAHMinHawaii (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ZachsMommy*







:

And while they have a less-than-covered dress code I knew a few girls that worked there and to them it's just another waitressing job







They're not there to devour the men (or boys







) - they're there to make money(and get good tips







and unfortunately they make tips because they're pretty and not wearing a lot of clothes.) Some of them are moms (single or otherwise) just trying to make it!

And I agree - he's going to see a LOT worse on in school and on the streets.










Little known fact..i worked there before i got married.


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## SAHMinHawaii (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjlioness*
I like your ideas.

There is one thing I keep thinking about doing - having a nurse-in at a Hooters, filling as many tables as possible.














If that were going on, I'd be perfectly happy to drag a 15yo son along.

















I have nursed in hooters too many times to count. I had them all smiling at me and talking to me. They all know what they are there for. There were two pregnant girls when i worked there (18 yrs) and they quit because they wanted to bfed their babies full time.







Breastfeeding isnt prohibited in hooters..in fact is in very supported.


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## SAHMinHawaii (Jun 2, 2004)

Just to clarify..its isnt "nothing" they are wearing. It is body forming, but it is shorts, a tank top(long sleeve in winter) and panty hose..how is that almost nothing?

Also..you may not agree with the "idea" of hooters, but you have no right to judge ladies you have never met. You are not in their shoes and its their choice. You would be more of a lady to not throw out such rude judgements about them.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I have nothing against the women who work at Hooter's, I've had friends work there.

However, I would not let my son (if I had one) go, and I don't "let" dh go, either (obviously, he's an adult and can make his own decisions, but he knows how much it upsets me and does not go out of respect for me).

The whole point of the place is to stroke men's egos (pun intended)- they get to drink and be loud and have buxom women in skimpy clothing *serve* them with a smile on. I would never go to a place that degraded men in such a way, but of course it's perfectly acceptable to do it to women.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlsantarem*
I don´t know how comfortable we would be bringing our children to a place that sold great frys called ´big balls

Well that's the thing, most people who think Hooter's is "no big deal" would certainly not take their children to a place called "Nutz" where oily, strapping young men served you in nothing but tight tank tops and itty bitty speedos with their "members" prominent and thrust in your child's face.

The point is moot anyway, a place like that would never be allowed to open.


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