# You think I should do what?!?! Looking for a little support here.



## cahwilson (Jan 24, 2007)

SO...this is how I found this site...

I have an almost 6 month old daughter and have been struggling with sleep issues for the past 4 of them. My daughter is "high needs" and I have an ap parenting style. I was unaware of these things until everyone else let me know by telling me how wrong I was doing things and how I needed to let my baby cry. LOL How many times I have heard that!! Well I believe with my duaghter being high needs she thrives on ap parenting. We have not been co sleeping however because dh has to sleep on the couch and mommy gets no sleep with little one poking her eyes.







I am always there for her at night nursing and cuddling until about 1 month ago. I hadn't found anyone who understood what my daughter was like and why I wanted to be there for her all the time. Everyone had me somewhat convinced that she would have to cry and I admit with no support I let it get to me and tried not nursing her as much during the night and letting her cry (in my arms) for a week.







:

There was no change in fact things got worse and she started banging her head into mine. We were both miserable and I feel so guilty no but I really let everyone get to me. Desperate for some good advice I called the pediatrician and this is what the nurse told me to do..."Put some padding in her crib close the door and let her cry, bang her head, kick herself, an d scratch, just don't respond to her." That caused me to start balling...it sounds like child abuse to me and the thought makes me sick to my stomach. I decided right then that I know my daughter best and I was right to be there at night if she needs me. I don't care if she sleeps through the night if that is the price to pay. After that in seeking support (and someone else who thought this was crazy!) instead of critiscm someone directed me to this site.

So last night she was up her usual 20 times and ended up kicking dh out of bed so mommy and baby could try to sleep around 5am, but the eyeball poking is making co-sleeping difficult! I would like to help her sleep a little better (w/o crying) and the pedi called back and reccomended a consultaion with a sleep center. Anyone tried this? I think co sleeping (and ALL night nursing) may be the only way she will sleep. I just wonder if I will get any sleep with her nursing all night?? How do you find a pedi that supports your nightime parenting style? I am new at all of this!!!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Just put her in your bed and nurse as needed. Talk to her about they eye poking. Do what you need to do to be comfortable while she nurses (so you can sleep through it)










good luck!

-Angela


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

My dd is almost 6 months as well, and this past month her sleeping 'needs' have really changed for us. She'll fuss around, need to get burped (while sleeping) after most nightime feedings. Wants to nurse 4-5x at night (we'd gotten a little break at 2-3 for a short while). I don't know about sleep consultation, but I would suggest that around this age she's facing teething (like we are...) and that can influence her sleeping as well. After co-sleeping a few nights did/do you think she might calm down at that time - knowing you'd be there? Or does it not make any difference?
Another thing that's happened for us is that certain nights dd wants to be real snuggly close, other times all spread out and not touching me. And if I can pick up which one she is wanting, she'll wake less during the night.

The eyeball poking sounds like no fun. What about having a stuffed animal inbetween you after nursing to take that instead of you? Could help her recognize 'night sleep time' as well?

As for finding a 'friendly' ped, I'm not sure. We've actually been upfront with ours & expected a continuation of the 'you should get a crib' we got her first two visits to continue every single one - but we haven't. Ask around in the forum for your region? Someone might know someone?


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## mama k nj (Dec 18, 2006)

All i can say is I know what you are going through. I also have a "high needs" babe and have been struggling with sleep issues.
He was borderline colic in the beginning and about a couple weeks after that died down we started w/ the teething and all night nursing. I have also been told that CIO is the only way to get them to sleep through the night. Well I think they are right, but it is at a cost IMO. So I'm NOT going to let him CIO. I'm just learning to accept that he won't sleep through the night anytime soon. I also just ordered the book "The No Cry Sleep Solution" and hopefully that will give me some tips to survive this. By far this has been the most challenging part of life w/ my new little one. OH and the swing has helped for naps.
Hang in there.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

My dd was a bed hog--wiggling and scooching over to my space and turning sideways--so I have done a few things to keep her still. First, I made a little bolster pillow to put between us. It is a firmly stuffed fleece tube with a piece of fleece coming off the side that dd sleeps on. She doesn't roll over this, so I don't end up creeping into dh's space. Also, I started swaddling her again about 2 months ago, but only from the armpits down. It keeps her warmer in our cold bedroom and keeps her from moving around too much. She'd get mad if I swaddled her arms, too, but the legs she doesn't mind at all. In fact, I think it helps her not wake up all the way sometimes.

As for nursing, I have found that if I lay on my side and dd is on her back, when she turns her head toward me a little my top boob is right there for her. I can easily fall back asleep like this. It took a few weeks of practice and experimenting, but now we have a pretty good system. Once or twice a night I sit up with her in bed and keep her awake enough to eat a lot; this seems to help her sleep a little longer until the next one. To keep myself awake enough to do this, I sometimes open up my laptop and read MDC! (The font and colors are more gentle on nighttime eyes than most websites)

Good for you for questioning your ped's advice. You are right--only YOU know what works for you and your baby in the middle of the night. I'm certainly no expert (my dd woke up 7 times last night!), but I have figured out ways to adapt to her night wakings. You will too.


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## bauchtanz (Nov 15, 2005)

I would find a ped that supports co-sleeping. They are out there.
If you go to the tribal areas, click the state you are from and put a call out.

I have also found GREAT support in breastfeeding support groups, and laleache league meetings.

More people co-sleep than admit it, just remember that you are standing up for your daughters needs. I have DD play with one of those blankets with ribbons to keep her hands busy while she nurses at night....


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## Minerva (Jul 7, 2005)

Try putting a washcloth or rag across your eyes while you're lying down. Abby stopped poking at my eyes when I did that (and switched to pinching my shoulder and arm, but we're working on that ...).


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## Valian (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm glad you found us and hope you stick around.

Ds is a high needs sleeper. Needs lots of sleep, and needs lots of help to stay asleep. We don't talk about it with people who don't need to know the details and come here when we need support. I'm glad you've decided not to limit nursing and give your Dd what she needs! For some evidence of peds who support this type of nighttime parenting you can visit the Web sites of Dr. Sears or Dr. Jay Gordon.

Don't forget 6 mo is an age for another growth spurt. Ds suddenly started nursing A TON and I thought what the heck! I mean he suddenly stopped unlatching and wanted to stay on the nipple all night. This was super new for him so I actually worried for a few days until he suddenly grew completely out of his size 6-9 mo clothes (the ones he'd only been wearing for a few weeks). Then I felt silly for not considering the 6 mo growth spurt sooner. D'oh!


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

We nursed on demand, round the clock for at least the first 18 months. I started putting some limits after that, but at night that was impossible. We nightweaned at 22 mo, because I'm pregnant and WOH so I needed to sleep. Plus we had numerous signs that ds was ready, or else I wouldn't have attempted it.

So I too, know what you're going through. The best thing I did was be there for my baby, 24 hrs a day. I still am, of course, if he needs me, he sleeps mainly in his crib in our room and comes into bed with us whenever he wants.

They are babies for such a short time and this is a crucial time in their development. They need to know they are loved and that they can trust you to meet their needs.


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## DigitalSuze (Dec 20, 2005)

You could try wearing a nursing necklace. My ds is the same age as yours, with a similar temperament. We cosleep and nurse on demand also. Ds doesn't poke at my eyes at night, but during the day the necklace has distracted him from pinching and pulling at me, so it might be worth a try. (OTOH, he sometimes wants to suck on the necklace instead of nursing, LOL!)


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## calla&elsa (Jan 19, 2007)

Yey for trusting your motherly instincts with not wanting to cry it out! I have found that "experts" don't always know what is best.

As for the sleep issues, I agree with DigitalSuze about the nursing necklace, my DD was constantly gouging me and that helped distract her hands from me. As far as sleeping and nursing, my DD is 9 months and I am starting to realize that I have to just get used to waking all night and hope this will eventually stop. I have tried several things to no avail but I will NOT resort to CIO. I will just keep dreaming of sleep. Best of luck to you and you came to the right place for support!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Another piece of information that might be helpful: when I took a prenatal breastfeeding class, they said that most babies have a growth spurt around 6 months. So of course she'll want to eat more, maybe even nurse more during the night, about now. Then she's going to calm down on the nursing a bit. So it's a good time to let her nurse a lot.


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

Well, seems like you already know you're doing the right thing so good for you...just keep her in bed and find a way to sleep through nursing as much as you can like others have said.

I didn't want them sticking me in the face so I let them twiddle with my other boob...which led to other bad habits that ended up driving me







: I wouldn't recommend encouraging the nipple twiddling like I did








but you've got some good ideas here already


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

I can't believe the advice that nurse gave you. It sounds like you stopped the night nursing and cuddling and after that she started banging her head? To me, that suggests she's stressed out and is trying to find a new coping skill to replace the coping mechanisms that were taken away. What that nurse told you is pretty much the opposite from an AP approach. You need to do what is right for you and the baby, and it sounds like neither of you is doing well with the way things are going right now.

I'm not sure if your DH is supportive of cosleeping, but if you go back to that it will reduce your DD's stress levels and I bet she'd stop banging her head. Habits like poking at your etc can be dealt with, and IMO are much less of a big deal than what would happen if you CIO now. Your DD is showing you that she can't handle that, she's not ready for such a big step yet. And most of the CIO "experts" say 6mos is the _youngest_ you should CIO, anyway! So even from that perspective, she's very young!

Keep listening to your instincts, you *know* what's right for your baby. You obviously are attuned to her and are strong--you've made it this far without caving to the pressure around you!


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## cahwilson (Jan 24, 2007)

Those are all good suggestions!!! I can't believe I forgot about the 6 month grwoth spurt! About the nursing neckalces...are those just a regular necklace or is there actually a product called nursing necklace? I think that would be very helpful as dd also likes to pinch while shes nursing. Dh always laughs about the red marks on mommy.

Tried cosleeping again last night and I have to admit the eyeball poking can be cute. Its like she is saying "you awake momma?" I don't mind as much when I open my eyes and there she is right in my face with a huge smile. She has however taken to feeling (smacking) my face while she is sleeping. It seems like she is just checking to make sure I am still there. I feel like that might get better as she has more nights in bed with me.

I couldn't agree more that the head banging was probably a result of stress. I was there for her, but not in the way that comforted her the most. She is much less frustrated when she wakes now. She still cries a little but it is usually fixable.

Thanks for all the support and good advice. I will continue checking in. Right now I am working on silencing that voice in me that keeps saying that fancy crib cost HOW much?!lol


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## calla&elsa (Jan 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cahwilson* 
About the nursing neckalces...are those just a regular necklace or is there actually a product called nursing necklace?

Yes, they are made with bright and chunky beads that are also all different textures, perfect for baby's hands. They also have a special clasp that is for quick release, for when baby pulls too hard. Just do a Google search and a ton of WAHM sites will pop up.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Something you might consider similar to the nursing necklace: I gave my DD a 'lovey' at around 5 months. I was tired of her hitting me in the face, so I gave her a soft blanket to stroke while nursing and falling asleep. She went for it, stopped smacking me in the face and I find it is a great comfort to her now as a toddler; she sleeps on top of it and strokes it in the car, too.

People have different feelings about attachment objects and some children take to them and some don't, but it works great for us and doesn't in any way interfere with or replace the mama/baby bonding. It just gives her something *else* to twiddle


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Tell everyone - family, friends, doctor - that your DD suddenly started sleeping great at night, and that it was probably just a growth spurt. And that you're glad you didn't resort to CIO, since now it's going so well and she's so happy, blah blah blah.

It's none of their business and they aren't helping you.

Consistent cosleeping MAY eventually move your DD beyond the eye-poking thing. It's up to you and your DH if you want to do it.

In my house, we have a queen-sized master bed. Sounds roomy, right? Well, I have this thing where I can't sleep touching someone. And a queen-sized bed isn't big enough for me to sleep comfortably with DH and DD. So, DH sleeps in the guest room for now. He's happy there. He goes to bed much later than we do anyway. When DD is a little older (maybe 2 years old, who knows) we'll move her to the guest bed and DH and I will have the master bed back. Anyway, I just share this so you know that alternative sleep arrangements, if mutually agreeable, are perfectly fine. There's no law saying you have to sleep with your husband.

I want to also commend you on following your parenting instincts. It's so hard when everyone is pressuring you to do otherwise. But you owe it to yourself to be the mama you want to be, and nobody else knows your DD like you do.

It's such a short and precious time, when our babies are babies. So few people these days are willing to enjoy it. Not only does my DD feel secure and happy sleeping with me, I also feel the same way. Occassionally I try to have a nap or something without her, and it's often difficult, because I don't feel quite right without her there. That must be the way our babies feel, too, when their mamas aren't there.


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## josh&davesmomme (Feb 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cahwilson* 
About the nursing neckalces...are those just a regular necklace or is there actually a product called nursing necklace? I think that would be very helpful as dd also likes to pinch while shes nursing. Dh always laughs about the red marks on mommy.

we love our nursing necklace we got it here my ds pinches like crazy and the necklace gives him something to do with his hands other than pinch mommy

Quote:

Right now I am working on silencing that voice in me that keeps saying that fancy crib cost HOW much?!lol
LOL I know many moms who feel the same way! depending on your situation and room size, you could side car your crib like this to give you more room in bed- some people I know, end up just using the side carred crib as a place to keep toys, diapers, or blankets but for some, like us, it gives a little more space...anyway just tossing out the idea.
Glad you're here!


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

I sold my crib for a pretty nice chunk of change.









Who cares what the pedi says. Don't talk to him about sleep. He isn't there for that. Trust your instincts!! You know your daughter. If she needs you, be there for her.

Welcome, welcome, welcome!!


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## cahwilson (Jan 24, 2007)

Wow that was a great idea for the crib. I'm not sure what we will do, dh seems pleased to sleep on the couch. Maybe I snore...or maybe it's that I'm not jumping out of bed sighing 20 times a night!

We tried giving dd a "lovey" but she holds it so tightly over her nose and mouth. It worries me. Thats another I keep struggling with is all the horror stories of sleeping with your baby at night. I have looked up a lot about co sleeping and I believe that it is safe and works for so many people, but I can't shake the fear that has been programmed into me. It is not helping me get any sleep either. I don't know...blame it on the nurse that visited our house and showed us a video of a couple who co slept for one night and lost their baby to SIDS...or my dh when he reminds me not to smother dd every night.







:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

there's a "parents of crappy sleepers tribe" in the nighttime parenting forum, and a "parents of fussy/high-needs babies and children tribe" in finding your tribe. come find support and vent!

also, look into vaxes as a source of nightwaking, and allergies (to foods passed through in breastmilk, like dairy, wheat and soy).

welcome, and good luck.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I tend to read this any time I've been having tough times









Quote:

*
Once we become parents it is easy to blame ourselves when our children's behavior seems out of control. The pervasive idea that we should be able to control sleep habits leads us too quickly to call night waking a "sleep disorder" and to wonder what we are doing wrong to cause it. Research gives no indication that anything parents do causes night waking. Babies whose cries are responded to rapidly are not more prone to it. Assuming that there is some method out there to treat sleep "disorders" undermines a parent's confidence. Despite the notion that "healthy, normal" babies sleep through the night, surveys of parents show that most babies do not sleep through the night, at least until all their teeth are in.

While waiting for our children to develop physically and emotionally to the point where they can realistically soothe themsleves to sleep, we need to work on our own development toward tolerance, patience, and acceptance of those aspects of parenting that are beyond our control. What remains in our control is the ability to continue to care for our children even though they are keeping us awake at night; to continue to hold to our own integrity as feeling people.

To embrace a philosophy that takes into account the individual needs of each child is not to ignore the unfortunate reality that we need sleep. We need to nurture ourselves in this process of raising children. The key to tolerance, and the natural passge through the nightwaking years, is to observe, accept, and work with your child's own inner rhythms and timetables, which can lead to the understanding that nurturing your child and nurturing yourself are not mutually exclusive enterprises.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara*
My first born was a *high needs* up-every-hour to two hours his whole first few years of his life....but, he's an amazing fellow and the most sensitive and adorable creature I could ever imagine getting to spend my days with







I'm so glad I didn't give up on him and trusted myself and him to show me what I knew deep down to be true. You are your baby's expert. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, says, cares or does....you've gotta believe in your very special, inherent ability to respond and take care of her. IMO, pediatricians are for medical advice--and remember they are trained to detect pathology/disease/problems---not dispense AP-friendly parenting advice.

IMO, you *must* listen to your instinct and your heart---not your head and all the "programmed" carp that's been jammed in there. Your BABY will show you what you need to do. Just follow









I like to also remember that a need met goes away. When needs go unmet---they have a nasty way of cropping back up.....so, do whatever you can to find a rhythm and flow that feels right with her for you both....trust yourself---you're gonna ride this through


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## CalBearMama (Sep 23, 2005)

You've gotten a lot of great ideas already, and I second the recommendations to always keep in mind that issues like teething, new skills (crawling, walking), growth spurts, and food sensitivities will affect your baby's sleep (and yours as well) from time to time.

I just wanted to add one more thing. I found that our nights got a whole lot more restful after someone suggested that my DS's restlessness at night might have to do with the fact that he had to pee. When I paid attention to his elimination needs, I discovered that was true. He would sleep a good block of time at the beginning of the night, but when his bladder got uncomfortably full, he would wake up. I would nurse him, and he would fall back asleep without peeing, and then 45 minutes later, he would be awake again, and we would repeat this over and over again until he finally peed in his diaper and could sleep more comfortably for another longer stretch.

So, when DS was about 10 months old, I started night-time EC (Elimination Communication) with him. At his first waking of the night, I would hold him over a potty or toilet, he would pee, he would nurse back to sleep, and we would all get another solid chunk of peaceful sleep after that. This success led me to do EC during the day as well, and DS was out of diapers at around 16 months (when he was with me) and around 19 months (when with his nanny). If you're interested in more information, a great web site is www.diaperfreebaby.org, or you can check out the Elimination Communication sub-forum of the Diapering forum here at MDC. I won't say that night-time EC was always easy (sometimes I had to get creative and nurse him while he peed or before taking him to pee, that sort of thing), but it definitely improved our family's sleep.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

Re: eye poking

How about wearing goggles.









We considered options like this when our cat Enki was a kitten, since he would put his paws in our eyes and nostrils.


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## schatz (May 6, 2003)

I don't think I saw this mentioned - what about making your crib into a side car? That's what I did when dd was about 7 months. She hit the growth spurt and teething and was waking all the time (at that time she was sleeping in the crib in our room but not attached to our bed). She needed the closeness and more nighttime nursing. So I took off the side of the crib that slides up and down and clamped it to my bed frame. I had to put some rolled up towels on the far side of the crib mattress to keep it snugged up against ours. Voila - more space for everybody but dd within arms reach. We now have ds in the side car and dd in the middle of the bed (ours is a king size).

Also, like someone else said, could you possibly be ingesting foods that make her more sensitive at night?

Good luck! It will get better! And you are so right not to listen to that ped!


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## cahwilson (Jan 24, 2007)

Just wanted to post a happy ending to this...for now. I started bringing dd into bed agian after she had woken up repeatedly one night, then the next night I brought her into bed sooner, and the next night I tried going to bed and realized that I didn't want to go to sleep without her in bed! I am so glad I finally feel more comfortable with co sleeping. Things are going much smoother...no crying fits in the middle of the night and no mean mommy from getting up out of bed every 20 minutes.

I was desperate for so long to get some rest at night. I really believe dd needs me at night (she reaches out for my face constantly) and nightime nursings have become peaceful and pleasant. Mommy and baby are much much happier during the day. I would say her nightwakings have gone from about 20 to 5 (which makes all the eye poking and face smacking okay with me for now)









As far as making the crib into a side car...I'm not sure it would work with the type of crib we have. It's a convertible crib that has a solid headboard and curvy posts and it's HUGE. Definitly something to look into though. I do miss having dh in bed, although dd doesn't hog it quite as much. lol Oh and as far as the 6 month growth spurt that has definitly come into play. I think Dd has gained 2 lbs in 2 days and I have gained a cup size from all the nursing. There is no filling her up!! I know here in a couple days she will wake up and have grown 4 inches. I appreciate all the advice and support, everything has helped so much. I have also been telling everyone that I have just been going with the flow and she is sleeping much better...I'm not going to set my self up for the critiscm!


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

glad you figured something out that works for you! everything is so much easier when baby is happier! don't I know it!


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Pediatricians are not parenting experts. I know they think they are, but they're really not. Unless there is a medical issue behind why she isn't sleeping (and if there is, it's probably something like food allergies that most peds wouldn't know how to deal with anyway) quit discussing it with him/her. I respect my ped's medical opinion, but I think she is whacked when it comes to parenting advice, so I don't ask for it. I don't mention our sleeping arrangements at all, and if she asks I just say everything is fine.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Yay! Thanks for the update....one of my biggest things as a new mother was letting go of my preconceived expectations.....I never expected to have a little baby who did NOT just lull off to sleep, who did not ever want to be put down, who didn't want to be away from me. Hey, this isn't what parenting looks like on TV or in the movies







I finally had to learn to trust the baby and accept that this is what it is







---and follow my own personal compass and ignore all the outside buzz of naysayers or "experts." I was very selective in whom I confided nursing/co-sleeping/parenting "problems" with because I didn't really want how-to advice---I wanted to feel heard and supported in following what felt right to me.


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## Fiddlemom (Oct 22, 2003)

great news!!!
I'm a huge fan of co-sleeping IF it makes life easier / more manageable for everyone....which it certainly did for us!!! glad you found us!! keep on those instincts!

in case someone hasn't mentioned...you might check out www.attachmentparenting.org, they may have a support group near you; La Leche League is also an excellent place to find other co-sleeping families to support each other and share ideas.

Co-sleeping, not being generally supported in wider American culture, also means that you have to go hunting for the people who really understand it and can help you sort through the challenges (there are pros / cons in every sleep situation with a baby!).

Jenny


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## Cate (Oct 2, 2005)

Is it possible that your baby has silent reflux? This can make for babies that want to nurse all night, since they find it soothing, and high needs during the day, since they're uncomfortable.


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

So glad to hear it's working out! keep us updated!


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## napua (Feb 1, 2006)

Awesome Update!!!! Enjoy your sweet baby. Some of my most precious times with my children have been during the middle of the night while we were snuggled up together.


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