# Who made the circumcision decision for your child?



## Tesla (May 23, 2002)

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## Tesla (May 23, 2002)

sorry, the balnk post was a screw up lol








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## Carmen (Nov 19, 2001)

My husband and I both made the decision not to circumcise our older son Sam. We were living in the States at the time and I remember us having discussions about it. My husband had a concern about DS looking "different" from him, but then we talked about it being such an uneccesary procedure. Our doctor told us that the insurance would not pay for it and that she did not like to do them, but it would be her who would have done it. I remember us having to sign a paper in the hospital before he was born saying what we wanted to do. We decided not to.

Our younger son was born in Norway and it just isn't done at all there except for religious reasons.


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## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Neither of us made a decision, just like we didn't decide to keep our girls intact.







It's something I always knew I wouldn't do. I do remember one conversation about it, but I don't remember how it started. My husband wanted it done so the child would look like him







: and I said no way, and that was that. No decision to make because it was never an option for me in the first place.


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## SagMom (Jan 15, 2002)

I knew I wouldn't have it done to my son. I told dh, he said "okay." (Which really was the only response I would have accepted!







)


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## rubylark (Nov 18, 2001)

I voted "other" because the one who will make the decision is the owner of the penis and nobody else.








Jolene


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

I was the first to say no, even though DH is not circumcised







: and originally he wanted it done. I never had any intention of allowing it to happen, but didn't argue the point...instead I pointed DH to literature and let it go for awhile. I brought it up again as I got closer to the due date, and at that point he'd come to the same conclusion as me.


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## lisamarie (Nov 19, 2001)

When I was pregnant, my doula/lmp gave me alot of info. on circumsion. After reading it and deciding for myself not to circ. if we had a boy, I had to talk w/my dh about it. Believe this or not, he didn't even know he was circd'!!!!!!!







Anyways, after reading the info. he too agreed w/me not to circ. We have a beautiful, intact little 5 yo boy!

Warmly~

Lisa


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## jonathonsmom (Dec 13, 2001)

Our Bradley instructor lent us a video. That was all we needed, and our son is intact!

- Dawn, mom to beautiful, intact Jonathon


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## Sarah (Nov 20, 2001)

I'm one of the "other" votes because there was no decision that was made. I will confess that I was the person who put my foot down and said "this is not an option" but voting "me" would have meant that "I" was the one who made a decision... and I didn't make a decision- I never considered the alternative.

Why is it that MY answer is never an option on a poll? Yesterday I saw a breastfeeding poll on americanbaby.com... there were about seven reasons listed for

"Why did you stop nursing"

Not a single reason listed was, "we were both ready to allow our nursing relationship evolve into something else." or even anything even remotly related to child led weaning- the reasons were like:
it hurt
I didn't make enough milk
I had to go back to work
It was time for other food

etc etc... all really bad seeds to be planting into a woman's mind to be sure that her fear of failure grows into an insurmountable mountain.

Aaargh. Sorry for the OT vent.
love Sarah


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## Mommy StormRaven (Jan 21, 2002)

With my first ds it was my husband who made the decision and I will regret allowing him to do that to my sone for the rest of my life. With DD (before we knew she was a she) and this PG DH and I (a new husband) decided taht we would not circumcise under any circumstance.


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## sahm (Nov 19, 2001)

Actually it was not something that I thought about until I was close to the end of my pregnancy. My dh is circumcised, figured we'd probably go that route, but hadn't discussed it yet. Then my brother and sil mentioned something about it (they had a boy 5 months earlier) and I started to do some research on the internet. From that, I formed strong opinions on not circumcising, talked to dh about what I had learned, and he agreed, though his opinions were not as strong as mine. So we kind of both made the decision. I'm so glad that someone opened my eyes to the truth before I made a mistake. Now I'm passing on the favour to pregnant women everywhere.







My sister is pregnant, her dh is circ'd and is hard headed so I'm passing on as much information as possible. The funny thing is, when I first asked her if she would circ (before she was even pregnancy), her immediate response was "No way!!!" Then I asked if her dh was circ'd. She said "No" in a rather matter of fact way. Then she asked her dh and he is (she has only been with dh, how she's supposed to know what any other penis looks like...). So he's using the typical ignorant arguments. Hopefully I can enlighten them before December (due date).


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## mamapixie (May 30, 2002)

Both DH and I made the decision. Luckily, it was an easy one, we're not circumcising this baby. We both regret having had DS #1 circumcised, and didn't want to make that mistake with this son, especially after doing all the research about circumcising.


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## Megs Mom (Mar 19, 2002)

T Carmen, I love LOVE the Dr. Suess quote! Where did it come from?


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I voted "other" because it was a total non-issue -- it never came up. And because we had a homebirth, and didn't see a pediatrician until a couple weeks after the birth (midwife did the first exams), there was no one else to bring it up for us.

It wasn't until well after the birth that I started to become informed about circumcision -- and I was VERY grateful that we hadn't done something dumb before we really knew anything about it.


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## rsps (Nov 20, 2001)

We had been discussing it mostly leaning towards no, and then at our last day of childbirth class, the teacher showed pictures, and that decided it.


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## irishgreengables (May 25, 2002)

I put "other" because our decision was made by our son's birthparents and the country where he was born -- since they do not do circ there at all (THANK GOD!!) DH and I had already decided we would not circ. and were so thankful to discover that the good people of Haiti like to keep their boys nicely in tact. And -- nw -- when MIL makes a comment about it, we can jsut say, "Oh well... WE didn't make the decision." One less arguement to have (You should have heard the one about cloth diapering.)

Peace,
Paula


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## joyful_mamma (Mar 22, 2002)

My partner and I made the decision together, and it was a very easy one to make. He's not circumsiced, and I couldn't imagine letting someone do such a thing to my little baby, so we quickly and effortlessly agreed-absolutely no circumcision for our boy!


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

It was discussed before we even got engaged! I wouldn't have stayed with him if he was adamantly pro circ. However, being Irish, dh is intact, and is as adamantly anti circ as I am. Then it became a moot point because we had girls!

We have two foster sons, one intact, one circed, and there is no comparison as to which looks better!


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## familyman (Jun 1, 2002)

me and my two boys like to call it "intact". uncirc sounds like we are without when we are definatly with. when you have something of value, dont you usually keep it wrapped?


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## KatieAline (Jul 22, 2002)

That's hard to answer because I knew from when I was about 10 and learned what circ. was that I wouldn't do it. DH didn't even know what it was which could have been a recipe for disaster (he's VERY opinionated!) except that he was born in Korea and they don't do it. So he was intact and very apalled that people actually do something like that. I think he would have personally beheaded anyone who tried to do that to his son's penis. *sigh* I knew there was a reason I married him LOL

Katie


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## rubylark (Nov 18, 2001)

familyman, I'm with you...I prefer *intact, whole,* or *natural* to uncirc'ed. IMO, using the term "uncirc'ed" is like saying somebody is "unsick" when they're healthy. KWIM?

Love, Jolene


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## Teresa (Jan 25, 2002)

DP is intact and even were he not, it is something that I would never have considered doing. What is there to decide?

<<me and my two boys like to call it "intact". uncirc sounds like we are without when we are definatly with. when you have something of value, dont you usually keep it wrapped?>>

LOL!

I agree completely with you, 'familyman.'
We use 'whole, intact & natural' and I encourage everyone to do so.
I once encountered a woman who took great offense at the word 'intact' arguing that her circumcised son was intact!

Your comment that the word 'uncircumcised' sounds like one is 'without' when they are 'definitely with' is spot on.
Imagine how the unquestioning types would view a baby referred to as "un-whole, not-intact and unnatural" (instead of 'circumcised')?

Maybe a humorous approach could make some inroads, much like "So That's What They're For!" does with breastfeeding.

Can you imagine a public-service campaign with comedians (and comediennes) talking about the benefits of being whole, intact and natural?


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## fummy mommy (Jun 22, 2002)

When I was pregnant with my second, I found this really cool magazine called Mothering on the newstand at a Wild Oats. On the cover was a baby boy, a nd the caption was "A Case against Circumcision". That opened my eyes and I shared what I read with my dh. We decided that being intact was the way to go. We both mourned alittle for his loss. And that was the first time I noticed his scar.

I figure if your born with something then it has a purpose


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## EMomma (Jun 6, 2002)

Our son is intact. My husband is circ'd and wanted our son to be circ'd as well. I tried to discuss it with dh while I was pregnant, but it never turned into much of a discussion. I knew it needed to be resolved, but when the baby was born the doctor asked if he would be circ'd or not and my husband said Yes and I said No. It came up a few times after that, but we never really truly got into the discussion and our son stayed intact. I figure if I wouldn't pierce my baby daughter's ears why in the world would I cut off part of my son's body? That's not my decision to make, besides I firmly believe that evolution is a heck of a lot 'smarter' than any one person. It's made to work that way...don't mess with it. That firm belief got me through natural childbirth. The less you fiddle with things, the better!


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## Chloe (Aug 13, 2002)

I responded "other" because initially, dh left it up to me, and I was going to do it for the typical reason- dh is circ'd, so he wanted his son to look like him, etc. Well, I didn't actually "decide" until the doctor was actually getting ready to scrub up, and the nurse came in to take him. I looked at my husband, and my parents (my mom or dad didn't want me to circumcise him)







Go mom!!! Go Dad!!! And I asked the nurse what happens. When she explained about the procedure, and how they strap him down and he'll cry because of that, i thought...what about the PAIN? And I asked, "is it too late to change my mind?" And she replied, "no honey, it's too late when it's done" So I told her we would not be circumcising. And she wasa ok with that. So the nurse kind of helped me make the final decision.

I am so glad that I did not go through with the circumcision!! After researching circumsion after I had him, I became more aware that I could not think of ANY reason to circumcise. And that baby boys must be born with a foreskin for a reason, as girls are born they way they are for a reason. And here I was with a beautiful baby, perfect in every way, and I could not have someone hurt him like that. And though I wasn't doing the procedure, I couldn't be part of that. I did a bit of research before he was born, but much more after he was born!!!


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## Pdxmommy (Aug 13, 2002)

We both did!


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

I have come so far on this topic! Like breastfeeding, co-sleeping, slinging, gentle discipline, etc., becoming a mommy has opened my eyes!

Growing up in my little naive sheltered world, I never even knew about circ! By the time I first saw a penis (circ'd), I thought that's what they all looked like - naturally. Then I found out about the real thing, and I was not amused. "No way would I let my baby go uncirc'd!". Then in my 30's I dated an uncirc'd guy - I didn't mind, but still thought I'd circ any sons I had.
Fast forward 10 years to being preggo with DS and the lovely world of the internet and all it's info. I researched circ, and how it was unnecessary, and the pain, and the complications, and all the nerve endings being chopped off. "No way would I let anyone circ MY son!" I shudder at the thought!! My partner didn't care, he is circ'd. He asked what to tell DS when he asks about why they are different, and I said we'll just tell him the truth. When I hear women say they circ so their sons look like their dads I want to smack them. What if the dad has blond hair and the son has brown hair? What if the dad is missing an arm? Do they amputate the son's arm? Why does a son's penis have to "look" like his dad's? I just don't get it. But then I don't get it when people name their sons "Junior" either, LOL.
Anyway, I told Daddy-O that no way are we circ'ing, and he said fine, and that was it. And he now proudly tells anyone and everyone that DS is not circ'd and why I wouldn't do it.
Melanie


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## Chloe (Aug 13, 2002)

good for you, Shanleysmama! You also have a point- if dad was an amputee, would we amputate our sons, too?

We need bumper stickers- proud parents of Uncircumcised sons!!!! :LOL

or, whole, or natural...

Francine


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## javamama (Dec 5, 2001)

I shouldn't have clicked on this poll...... I did not want to circ my son. DH did. I showed him literature, links, books, pictures and we fought alot







. In our marraige, I usually make the parenting decisions b/c I do the research etc. This issue was so different. In the end, I let him win. I held my baby boy as he was circumcised and I will regret it until my last day. I will not have any more children because I do not want to go through that again. I have seen some of you post that you would leave a husband over this. He is the father of my children and we are a happy family. This is a sadness I will hold forever.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

My sister actually was the one that first started to inform me about circ(my nephew is intact). Then I got preg for the first time and read some on it and decided no way. We had a girl that time. Oh yea I discussed all the info I had read with my dh and he agreed we shouldn't do it. 4.5 years after dd we had our son and he is intact. Now I realize it was never our choice anyway.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

All of the male members in both sides of our families have been uncircumcised for as many generations down the male-side lineage as we can reasonably figure. None of them have ever had problems with it. Dh is perfectly happy uncircumcised (as I am sure almost all uncircumcised men are). It was pretty much a null point for us.

I did, though, have a rather unsubstantiated fear that when I gave birth the hospital would circumcise my son without my permission. I had this fear because unlike my first, I was delivering in a large hospital rather than in a small birth center. It was all so clinical that I was frightened that things would just happen without my consent.

I never let my son out of my view while I was there. The nurse brought me the "circumcision paperwork" and I said no, so she went away, and then came back to talk about "arranging the circumcision" at which point I actually yelled at her "I DON'T WANT HIM MUTILATED!!!" because she was actually substantiating this fear of mine.

Anyway, enough of my weird story that probably doesn't belong in this post anyway.


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## Christy1980 (Jul 7, 2002)

I'm so glad you yelled at that idiot nurse, nikirj!! good for you!!









If this happened more often, med. professionals would think twice before walking in the room expecting to get that stuff signed...."is she gonna go ballistic on me this time?"









HA!

Lots of hugs to you and your kids....


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## somemama (Sep 25, 2002)

javamama, I'm so sorry for your pain! Perhaps you could turn it into a positive by speaking out to others?

I notice you're in Utah--and I'm starting to think I'm the only one in Utah with an intact son!! LOL, but seriously, I've found a lot of , "Yes, I circ'd my son, but I regret it....." in Utah, but I've only actually found ONE PERSON who did not circ her son!! If you could help me find more, I'd appreciate it!!

Anyway, at my son's 2-week checkup, the ped asked, "How is his penis healing?" Both dh and I busted up laughing, and my dh said, "You know, doc, it healed so well that he still actually has his foreskin!"

Isn't there some irony there? Like, if the doc actually cared about the health of his penis, he wouldn't have suggested a circ in the first place?


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## somemama (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by rubylark_
*familyman, I'm with you...I prefer intact, whole, or natural to uncirc'ed. IMO, using the term "uncirc'ed" is like saying somebody is "unsick" when they're healthy. KWIM?

Love, Jolene*
I always call my son intact. People give me blank stares. Then I have to explain what intact means.

BTW, I'm not "unmascectomized."

And.....if it were any other part of the body, (Like, "we're going to cut the top of your son's ear off") parents would be screaming bloody murder!!!!!

I love you guys!!! You understand me and make me feel sane!!!!!!


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## rubylark (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:

You understand me and make me feel sane!!!!!!
DITTO!!!!!! I couldn't agree more









I love this place.


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## ragdoll (Aug 28, 2002)

Sadly my midwife AND doula tried to talk me INTO getting my sons penis mutilated! Their arguement was that when he gets really old and unable to care for himself that noone will clean it for him...........my son is intact. My husband is actually po'd that he, personally, was circed at birth - he feels robbed, I guess.
Tamara


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## ragdoll (Aug 28, 2002)

[ This is a sadness I will hold forever. [/B][/QUOTE]

Javamama,
I'm sorry you have to hold onto this pain. Remember that you are a great mother and you do your best to make the right choices for your child. This one instance you cannot change, but think of the lifetime of love and knowledge you have to offer your son and the myriad of wonderful choices you have made for him!
Gently,
Tamara


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## Phishgal (Feb 28, 2002)

I am the proud new mamma of a boy; Alexander. Initially my dh wanted to have him circ'd (he is). However, after I showed him web sites and discussed the risks, etc. my dh was in total agreement with me. I am so happy that it was not made into a bigger issue (with my parents, inlaws) and that my dh made an educated decision. I am very proud of him; I have friends who's spouses would not even discuss the issue and demanded the circumicision. So glad that I am not married to someone like that.


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## Chloe (Aug 13, 2002)

That is sad- not even discussing the decision. Poor little boys.


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## Jenmom (Dec 6, 2001)

he's intact. It took two pregnancies to convince DH that leaving his penis alone was the best thing to do. I believe our disagreement on the matter is why we had two wonderful girls before our precious boy.


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## rubym (Dec 13, 2001)

I guess i made the decision because I had the info. It wasnt something that dh ever thought about. I didnt really have to convince him though. Now he is totally anti circ.


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## MorgnsGrl (Dec 14, 2001)

I chose "we both did." In reality, I would have refused to let it be done even if DH had wanted it done, but that wasn't an issue for us because DH himself is intact. Thank goodness.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

We don't have a son (yet) but if/when we do, HE will make that decision for himself. Period.

My dh is not circed either, so we both are in full agreement to leave it alone because it would be our son's penis, not ours. Therefore it should be his decision.

BTW my dh and I are Hindu and in that faith you do not circumcise.

Darshani


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## naotalba (May 29, 2002)

Before I got preg, dh was insistant. Dh is circ'ed, his son (from a previous relationship) is circ'ed, everybody's doing it, etc. Then a) I got preg, and b) I visited my newborn nephew in the hospital, and listened to my brother proudly tell me his son was about to get "snipped". I corrected his word choice (my understanding is "crushed" is more accurate). I didn't vomit. I'm proud of that.

When I got home, I told dh that if anyone aproaches our children's genitals with a knife, I'm calling the cops.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

It was a mutual decision for us. Mike is intact, I am intact,







and our children will be too.


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## Mommasgirls (Nov 5, 2002)

When I was pregnant my DH was very for it. I told him there is NO WAY anyone would do that to our child. I was prepared for a battle and let my midwives know. Luckily we have two girls. My DH said he wanted his son to look like him....grrrrrr...some things he just doesn't get. If we decide to have another child I am going to look for a videotape of the procedure and force him to watch it.He gets sick when the girls get a cut-that will change his mind.

Laura


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## Christy1980 (Jul 7, 2002)

if you go to
www.nocirc.org
then click "Books, Videos, and Websites"
then click "Videos"
there is a list of circumcision videos that you can buy

*****OR*****

Go to
Intact of Canada's web site to download a free video
http://www.intact.ca/vidphil.htm
You need speakers on your computer to fully understand what is going on. This video is quite graphic, but it definately gets the point across that circumcision is awful...I cried the first and only time I watched it, my pregnant cat jumped on the desk and began meowing and pawing at my speakers trying to comfort the baby









Things to notice in this video:
1) The doctor's description to the father of the boy about the "'look' he's going for," basically stating that this is a cosmetic procedure.
2) The green stuff put on the boy's penis is betadine...a disinfectant, NOT a pain reliever.
3) The father's nervous attitude and the doctor's jokes about how the anti-circumcision movement says circ is bad but "we know it hasn't hurt anybody, haha."
4) And the father's uneasy laughter at the doctor's jokes.

Yes, I remember all that from seeing this video ONE TIME because it hurt me so deeply and is now burned into my brain. TRUST ME, YOUR DH WILL NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT CIRCUMCISION AGAIN AFTER SEEING THIS VIDEO! That's what usually convinces fathers not to circ their sons.

I hope this helps, and I don't mean to scare you, I just want to be honest with you so you aren't mad at me later for sugar-coating it or something.








in advance


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## 3boys4us (Mar 7, 2002)

I had to reply to this although I am probably late - none of mine are circ'd. It was my decision alone. Beleive it or not ( and I am SO lucky) dh had no opinion. Dh is circ'd but really didn;t fall for that "to be like daddy" attitude. When ds#1 was born, I couldn;t imagine having him circ'd. It looked painful and I didn;t even know about Mothering or AP parenting then. Dh didn;t even question it. It helped that our dr. was from the Carib. (and we were living there at the time) and few men there were circ'd. And beleive it or not (it is pretty amazing now that I think about it) no one ever said anything different to us. It never came up with the other two boys and to this day no one (kids, drs. grandparents etc..) has ever discussed it with us.

After reading some of your stories I can't beleive how lucky I am. I guess it did come up one time and that was when ds#1 was being potty trained. He was having a problem with a little "extra" drippage. Dh just told him to shake a little longer and that was it.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I decided. While we do not have a ds yet dh and I have discussed it as we are planning TTC in the next year. He has agreed to go with my decision.


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## bunny's mama (Nov 19, 2001)

this was a BIG decision for dh and i, as we are jewish. i feel so strongly that i could never cause physical harm to my baby for any reason, and dh feels the same way BUT also feels equally strongly about the tenents of our faith. a serious difficult situation...perhaps the hardest decision we have ever made in our 12 year relationship.

in the end, the decision was made to keep any boys we may have intact. dh still doesn't feel "good" about it, but he understands (BTW, if we were not jewish, he would absolutely have no problem or thought whatsoever in keeping our sons intact, it is the spiritual aspect that causes him difficulty).


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## Envision (Dec 6, 2002)

I had really mixed feelings about it because many of the boys that my mom had babysat had horrible problems not being cir. so I didn't know what to do...

I finally told dh to make the decision because he has the parts and knows all the "male feelings" about it. I really didn't care either way and felt relieved that I didn't have to make the decision.
He decided to not get it done and of course, so far so good!!

Oils


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

A lot of the problems in not being circumcised stem from an innacurate knowledge of the intact penis.

People have been told by doctors and well-meaning Mothers, etc. to retract the foreskin to "clean" underneath when in fact this can cause a lot of problems.

The head of the penis is self-cleaning and should never be retracted except by the owner.

It can take up to about eighteen years for the foreskin to be able to retract.


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## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

1 the Creator

2 the mommy

3 the daddy

4 the baby









My DH was convinced that the pregnancy was peaceful and the baby entered the world peacefully because the baby knew that no matter what, he or she would remain in tact. There was no energy to be decided based on gender.


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## shanetedissac (Apr 26, 2002)

I have read all the research and listened to many people about circumcision. We circumcised our sons because my dh is Jewish. I know that there are many jews that don't do the ritual circumcision these day but my dh wished to do this tradition. The only way that I agreed was that we used a mohal (sp?). After watching my first son as his bris and then reading about what a circumcision was like for a baby boy at the hospital I don't understand why anyone would want to put their baby through that in the hospital. My son's bris (the surgical part) took no more than 30 seconds. I hear in the hospital it can take up to 20 minutes!!!! Other than the Jewish thing we would not have circumcised and I commend anyone that chooses not to.









Shane
mom to Theodore (3) and Issac (1)


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I voted that we made it together but dh was rather ambivilant about it. My midwife was very against it and her lecture was all I needed to move over to the other side.


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## solekat205 (Mar 3, 2003)

regrettfully I did in the end. I wish I could take it back that we had him circ. My hub didn't want to and then the DR walzted in and said if we didn't he would be plagued with constant UTI's and the foreskin is dirty and I would always be cleaning it & pulling it back. How sad & stupid I was. To make it worse when they took him off it was almost 2 1/2 hours before they brought him back to me. They said they thought I needed my sleep. It was aweful he clawed his lil face up and at 9 weeks still has a scar on his cheek from one deep cut. I often wonder if this trauma is what made him my lil high needs baby that only wants me and noone else. I will never have any future boys circ. I learned the hard way at my sons expense.
Kat


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Christy1980_

Things to notice in this video:

1) The doctor's description to the father of the boy about the "'look' he's going for," basically stating that this is a cosmetic procedure.
2) The green stuff put on the boy's penis is betadine...a disinfectant, NOT a pain reliever.
3) The father's nervous attitude and the doctor's jokes about how the anti-circumcision movement says circ is bad but "we know it hasn't hurt anybody, haha."
4) And the father's uneasy laughter at the doctor's jokes.
Don't forget when the baby is screaming so hard he is choking on his spit and/or vomit and his screams turn into silent shrieks- all the while his arms which haven't been strapped down, are flailing wildly-, the doctor shoves the binkie in the kid's mouth and says "Shush shush shush..." and then to the father "He's gotten himself all worked up..." Continue the cutting, clamping, etc.....


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## solekat205 (Mar 3, 2003)

why would you post this as a reply to me after I said I already felt bad for being misinformed? I think this was cruel of the poster. My feelings were extremely hurt by this.


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Kat:

I noticed that the post was addressed to Christy. I don't think that it was aimed at you or even realized that you would be offended. I have been seeing Nathan1097 on several boards for a long time and that is not her normal modus operandi.

I feel for you and for your sons and I think that feeling is shared by everyone here. I think we all feel you are a very brave woman to face up to what has happened and bring it to this forum to be shared. We all benefit from your honesty and openness as well as millions of men yet to be born. Thank you!

Frank


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## solekat205 (Mar 3, 2003)

thanks frank- I am new so I got confused and thought it was a reply to my post.







It was just so descriptive it really upset me.I apologize to the poster. I am still trying to figure me in & outs of the board.
Kat- keeping my mouth shut, lol


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Kat:

Welcome to the board! We're a very forgiving gang here!

Frank


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## Chloe (Aug 13, 2002)

Kat- I am sure Jennie didn't mean for the post to be offensive







I know it's hard, but try not to feel bad about your decision. Like you said, you do not need to have your future children circ'd...

Take care!

Francine


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## somemama (Sep 25, 2002)

I also made the decision for my daughter. I decided not to let anyone cut her genitals, either. So BOTH my children are intact! (My girl and my boy.)


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Kat:

I saw more of your story on another board and I feel so sorry for you. It is evident that the doctor did not know about intact little boys and did a horrible thing that was not necessary. I certainly hope you are not using this same doctor anymore.

Frank


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

i made the decision. I had intended on discussing w/dh, but never did. DS came 5 weeks early- the nurse asked if we were going to. I said I still needed to discuss w/dh. The next day, nurse asked again and I said no, still haven't had a chance to discuss. I told DH on the way home from the hospital. He was a little weird at first, I told him I watched the video and he could to, and if he still thought it was necessary, he could take him to the ped to have it done. DH wouldn't watch it.

I haven't really mentioned it to anyone. I don't think that's the kind of thing that needs to come up in general conversation, but DH has told his family and friends- about everyone he knows- most think it's weird, but I don't care and he doesn't either.

I found out after the fact they really shouldn't do it on preemies anyway- so not sure why they offered.

sorry for typos- nak


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by solekat205_
*why would you post this as a reply to me after I said I already felt bad for being misinformed? I think this was cruel of the poster. My feelings were extremely hurt by this.*
I posted it in reply to the post I quoted above it. I didn't see your post. It was only about the video that is mentioned. That's it. My opinion of what's on that tape.


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## solekat205 (Mar 3, 2003)

Jennie,
Im sorry I know that now. It was the first time someone replied to any of my posts so I thought it was a direct reply to me, I was just confused.







Plus it was so descriptive & I am already upset that I had it done I guess it got me rattled & flustered.
Kat


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## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

We both made the decision, but I was the one who did all the research. Wish I had done it before we circ'd our first son, but you can't turn back time







. When I told dh that it was important to me that he not be circ'd and for what reasons, he agreed with me. He is pretty pro intact now, even though he is circ'd.


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## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

Kat, I know exactly how you feel







. Three years later, things like that still make me tear up and cringe every time I read them because we had our first baby circ'd. As a new mommy, I know it makes you feel even worse.







I only wish I knew these things *before* it was too late







. The best we can do is learn from our mistakes and never repeat them. The moment my poor ds (who was also a colicky, high needs baby, and I do wonder if the circ was why) came back from getting it done, I knew I'd *never ever* do it again.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by solekat205_
*Jennie,
Im sorry I know that now. It was the first time someone replied to any of my posts so I thought it was a direct reply to me, I was just confused.







Plus it was so descriptive & I am already upset that I had it done I guess it got me rattled & flustered.
Kat*
Sorry. I wouldn't have said that about it had I known how it would affect you! I had seen the video a couple years ago when I was email the VHS copy and I guess it was burned into my memory. (That and I watched it several times just to figure out what they were saying!)


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

I voted "other" because the one who will make the decision is the owner of the penis and nobody else.
I was just going to say...I would have to vote as "my son made his own decision."

Even though I don't have a son, if I did, I would just have to guess what he would want as a newborn. And I bet I would guess right if I guessed that he wouldn't want a piece of him cut off.


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## somemama (Sep 25, 2002)

I actually know someone who said to me, "He will want this done to him." (So he won't be 'different' was the argument.)

Can you imagine the ignorance? After I gave this guy/his wife all kinds of information. Oh, my heart aches for that baby, who is due any day now.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

i said i did, but dh agreed with me, so i didn't have to convince him. it was basically "no son of mine will ever have that done to him" and he was like "okay." hee. he's like that with most of my parenting decisions. now, two years later, he is as anti-circ as i am.


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

We both did. My husband has a bunch of funny little things he likes to say. Long before we even had kids, he would say "Circumcision is not your decision." Obviously, once the time came and we had a son, the "decision" was already made. Oh, not to circumcise, that is.

Laura


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I was uninformed. Family, the doctor, dh and I, all decided our son's fate. No going back now. It has been almost 3years since he was cut. I wish I knew then what I know now.


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## Miss Kitty (Jan 30, 2003)

After reading this thread I feel I was a very fortunate mother. First, I was 39 when I had ds and was already well-informed on the debate of circumcision. While all the males in my family (that I know of) were circumcised I was the lone stand out against it. I actually got into quite a heated argument with my sister for circumcising her two sons years ago.
My husband is intact which meant no argument or convincing there.
We were also completely supported in our decision by my OB and our family practitioner. No one even questioned our decision. It was just "Do you" "no" "ok" and that was the end of it.
Man, do I feel blessed!


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Miss Kitty. your post is so refereshing. Thank you.


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

It's really nice to know someone who already had information concerning making a knowledgeable decision. This is what these boards are all about.


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## RaisingCaine (Apr 6, 2003)

I voted I did, but it was more like we discussed it, I told dh I was against it, he wanted to do it, I dug my heals in untill he finally gave up









I had made the decision a long time before I met dh and had ds, it's not my penis and it's not my choice. Luckily for me my father and one of my two brothers are intact (the other was circed for "medical reasons" my mother told me why the doc told her she should have him circ'ed but I've forgotten, he was one when it was done







), my mother is very anti circ and I was around for a few circ debates with her friends while I was growing up. I think that if it hadn't been for that I would have just went along with it. I tried to be civil while discussing it with my dh (even though it's a very touchy subject for me), I went online and did a lot of research hoping to get him to change his mind and agree with me, he never did read any of the stuff I printed off but it sure strengthend my resolve. When ds was born we still hadn't had the "disscusion" the one where the final "decision" was to be made.

When the ped came to the hospital for the first time to examine ds he asked us if we where going to circumsise, I imediatly said no, dh said we hadn't decided yet. Well the subject was never brough up again and ds is now 6 months old and happily intact.


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## MelissaEvans (Jan 9, 2003)

I did the homework and decided I didn't want it done; but I left the final say up to DH. He decided not to have it done. For a long time I thought it was to appease me (as I'm sure you've noticed, I can be quite opinionated). Now he says he went with my wishes, not to keep me quiet, but because he trusted my analysis. That made me feel better.

I've been really lucky, none of my family members have been upset by "our" decision (I love the concept that it's really the son's choice). MIL was talking to my birth-mom and was a bit surprised that we didn't have it done. Birth-mom said, "well, hasn't he been through enough?" (c/s, possible GBS infection, low oxygen levels, IV, monitors, tons of pricks and pokes, poor guy) MIL agreed and that was that. =) It's funny, now I talk to all three of my moms (MIL, birth, and step who raised me) and give them all the reasons I find (and keep finding!) not to have it done and they agree. This is odd becuase MIL had her son, my DH, circ'd and step mom had both her sons circ'd. I try very hard not to "you should have" them, I know that when DH was born it wasn't really an option not to. Not unless you were *very* concerned, it simply wasn't really questioned. Now it is and I feel so lucky that information is out there and people are thinking twice.

My OB/GYN didn't really push either way which was nice. The ped asked at our first visit if we were going to have it done there (because of course we're going to have it done) and we told him no. He didn't push either; but his expectation bugged me. Whatever.

All these stories of, "I didn't know at the time," tells me doctors are failing to do their job of informing patients. It's not your fault. You did the best you could at the time, that's all anyone can ask of you. If you've learned and grown, then you've proven yourself to be strong and should be commended. My respect is very high for you moms! *hugs*

~Melissa


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MelissaEvans_
*All these stories of, "I didn't know at the time," tells me doctors are failing to do their job of informing patients.*

The disturbing thing about this is that the AAP's statement has remained essentially the same for 30 years and there has been little new research and nothing ground breaking since the first statement but the doctors are using the same old justifications. The only thing that is changing is a better informed patient thanks to the internet and parents talking to parents. This has caused many doctors to re-assess their position and become educated. It's got to be embarassing when the patient knows more than the doctor.

Frank


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

The final say went to my Jewish DH.


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## vein (Mar 7, 2003)

My brother (20) is not circumcised, and I thought it was kind of sick to do it to poor babies in the first place. (And also thought it was very wrong that some of the same people AGAINST female circumcision were FOR male circumcision - it just didn't make sense to me)

In the end, my SO (who was circumcised) and I didn't even really discuss it. I told him I didn't want it done, he said okay, the midwife asked at his 3 day check up, I said no, she said good (and said that the dr she consults with will only do it very hestitantly if the parent insists on it) and that was that. Gavin's dr has never mentioned it and has never asked if we were planning on it. The IL's have never mentioned it (they know it's none of their business hehe) and my mom was relieved at our decision.

If he wants it done when he's an adult, all the more power to him, but we're not making that decision for him.


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## intensity_too (Nov 21, 2002)

It was important that my husband and I agree on this issue. Lucky for us, it wasn't an issue at all. Even though my husband was circumsized as a baby he felt no need for or son to be. My husband says he wants or son to enjoy what he has missed. LOL I've always felt why cut it off if it's supposed to be there. I mean really . . . do you think little boys would be born with something they didn't need??

Jaime


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## doulamoon (Mar 17, 2002)

We agreed but even if we hadn't it would not have happened. No one is cutting anything off a child of mine.


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## Fletchersmama (May 23, 2003)

Originally, DH wanted it done. Same old sad reasons:
it's cleaner
...want him to look like me
etc, etc
I told him all the reason these thoughts were untrue.
He still thought we should do it.
I said if you think you could hold your boy when they cut off a part of his penis I will consider it. The image put an end to DH's wish to circ. If he had agreed to hold babe while someone did this, I would have put my foot down. But I knew he needed to come to same conclusion as me. Now he tells friends and family why it's wrong to hurt little boys this way.
After DS was born, DH's mom says having her boys circ'd was something she would always regret. She can still hear his screaming down the hall when it was done.
Makes me cry to think of the pain he went through.
I smile everytime I change DS's diaper, bath him or just plain air out his butt - So does Dad!: )


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

We both desided to it becuase of the religious contect and because of what happened to my brother. It all went well, in the Temple with me nursing immediately. I think it is a personal deision and people should do what makes them happy


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Totally Off Topic - but I was wondering "what happened to your brother" ??


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

Infections upon infections. Despite good hygene, homeopathy, antibitotics, spells, herbs etc etc etc. He was cirked at 7 with anestesia. He has no regrets.
My cousin, at the age of 6 insited on being cirked for religous reasons. He pestered his very reluctant parents will they gave in. He had it done int he hospital. Says he has no regerets


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

I'm so sorry...


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## bloodrayne (Mar 5, 2003)

We both made the decision not to circumsize. We didn't discuss it with anyone, not the doctor, our families, or the midwife, other than to let her know we had decided not to.


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Excellent !!


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## Mahaylea (May 30, 2003)

Well I actually we never disgussed whether it hsould or shouldn't be done..I assumed it wouldn't..One day it came up in convo and d/f said he thinks boys should be done..Well I flew off about it because I can not believe can agree with them removing something from our sons when they are born with it..I put my foot down right then and that was that..I would have booted him out before circ. my sons..


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## Frankly Speaking (May 24, 2002)

I suspect the 7 yo had been retracted prematurely and that was what caused his problems. It appears that even though this has been done and there have been infections caused by the retractions and over concern with hygiene that they boys out grow it in most cases between 8 and 12 years old. What a shame that at just the time it was about to be over with, he decided on the surgery.

Frank


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## earthpapi (May 29, 2003)

dw and i new not to get it done to ds. i never cared about ds looking like me. i would rather have him make that choice on his own, and i will never put ds through that much pain. a co worker was telling me i was stupid and that my ds would get infections and everyone would laugh at him and he would not be like me. i looked at him and asked if he would laugh. he said maybe, then i ask what the hell would you be doing looking, everyone looked at him and he felt really really stupid and just sat down. then i told him that ds will make everyone feel as bad as he did or worse if anyone laughed at him. i would make sure of it.(i know this is just the tuff dad thing coming out but hey thats dads for ya







) after that i could not beleive how some people can actually say that and believe that. the only way kids would laugh is if thier parents made that issue into an issue. and this guys was one of them. hopefully i shot him up for a little bit. well agian this is my $0.02 adios


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Frankly Speaking_
*I suspect the 7 yo had been retracted prematurely and that was what caused his problems. It appears that even though this has been done and there have been infections caused by the retractions and over concern with hygiene that they boys out grow it in most cases between 8 and 12 years old. What a shame that at just the time it was about to be over with, he decided on the surgery.*
Of the world's population only 10 to 15 percent of men are circumcised. The vast majority of whom are Muslim. Thanks to expert medical advice we are now learning *not to ever retract* because of the problems this can cause by introducing germs directly into the urinary tract, that the foreskin is self-cleansing much like your eyelids, the presence of smegma is not indicative of infection, and that penile surgery is an extreme measure and should be reserved for life-threatening situations.

http://mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-...rcson103.shtml

http://mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-...cision85.shtml


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## muldey (May 8, 2002)

I say we both made the decision,even though dh Billy took a little convincing.He's circed, and has a horrible scar from it. I did tons of research on the internet,and just after seeing one picture I had made up my mind.I couldn't even imagine watching a video,I would be hysterical. When Gabrion had his open heart surgery,the nurses were surprised becuase we were very scared that they would circ him while he was under.(we have heard of this happening) They said they usually get the oposite,parents usually ask them to circ! We were told they do not do that,the child is going through more than enough,they couldn't see putting them through any more pain.This was at Children's Hospital in Boston.

Lisa in RI
SAHM to homeschooled Kasia(who will be 5 2 weeks from today!)







,Gabrion(22 months,unvaxxed,intact,TOF(tetralogy of fallot,congenital heart defect)







,wife to Billy


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## rose (Oct 9, 2002)

Our baby is due next month. DH and I decided that if it's a boy, we will not circumcize...


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## quantumsarah (Mar 23, 2002)

I made the decision first and my (former) partner agreed, even though he was circumcised. He was willing to go along with my decision from the get-go, but it took very little research to totally convince him that circumcision was definitely not something we wanted to do to our sons.


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## EmmaJean (Sep 26, 2002)

I didn't vote b/c I'm not sure who's decision it really was. I never really thought much about circumcision until I was pregnant and found out it was *probably* a boy. For somewhat religious reasons, I was ok with it, but I didn't really want to do it. The main issue was "who is going to do it?" We had our ds at home, and isn't vaxed, so didn't know how docs handled it, and our midwives weren't helpful. And any book I'd read would say it basically didn't matter either way--whatever the parents thought was right. No mention of risks or anything. Given, I didn't seek out anti-circ lit, but still...

Anyway, I went to meet with the ped and he told me all about circ. and drew pics and all, and it looked like torcher! I didn't want my baby boy to go through that, even though he'd be numbed up. But my dh was unphased when I told him about it.

So long story short, I cried the night before the procedure and MIL comforted me saying it was the right thing to do... It went really well--ds slept through it! And dh was in the room with him. But I sobbed the first time I saw it and couldn't change his diaper for the rest of the day. MIL couldn't understand why I thought it was so unnatural. She asked me where I got that idea from!!

Well, I still regret the decision, and since the postpartum hormones are way gone, I feel calmer about it. I am pretty at peace with it--I won't blame myself for the rest of my life. I'm pregnant again, so I don't know what will happen. I pray I can convince my dh not to do it. He even mentioned the other day that he hopes it's a girl so we don't have to circ--Well, we don't *have* to!

I wish I would have stood my ground more and been more educated about it. But it's the past, and I can't change it! He's a happy, healthy boy, inspite of being circ'ed!


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

I wasn't sure how to vote as, like others have already said, there wasn't much of a decision to be made. Oddly enough, I was clued in to this "issue" through the Babycenter discussion boards (before I had heard of MDC) - it's the one time I can recall that my attraction to debate has proved especially helpful, as I was just haphazardly running through their "Great Debates" section. I started researching and after a very few articles determined that circumcision was not an option. I continued to research, anyway - just for kicks I even asked some guys I knew about their experiences. Of course, they were all circumcised and insisted that it was ridiculous not to







:. And then there was the brilliant office full of nurses I worked with who all told me that I should go ahead and "get it done" so I wouldn't have to deal with the inconvenience of retracting ds' foreskin every diaper change







. (These were the same ladies who told me that I *must* have an epidural as there was just no way to make it through labor without it - though most of them had never even experienced childbirth as they had their children in the "knock 'em out and wake 'em up when it's over" days. Sorry.... rant over







).

I did all of the research and shared the info with my husband. He was a bit unsure at first but has my never-ending respect as he put his baby before any insecurities he may have had (about addressing differences, that sort of thing) and went along for the ride. He generally does with my parenting decisions, but I've been especially impressed with this one as he's now a true advocate for keeping little boys intact - quite a step for a circumcised man who has self-esteem issues! He even came up with a little speech for our son if the "Why am I different than Daddy" question ever surfaces - chock full of great things about people being more enlightened now and how fortunate our son is to be as nature intended. I'm hoping he'll get a chance to use it as he's put so much thought into it







.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I voted "I did". We did not do any U/S with either of my pregnancies. As I got closer to my due date, I simply stated, "You do know that we will not circumcise, right?" He huffed and puffed on and on about how he wanted any sons to look like him, how it was up to him, since he had a penis, not me... huff and puff, huff and puff...







:







:
And I said, nope, I would divorce you and move to another country before I would let you or anyone else EVER touch him. And I did not budge. He'd get upset, and I'd freak out at him like a madwoman. No way was I giving in!
Well, number one turned out to be a girl, anyway







Number two was a boy, and by that point he had run out of arguments. Now, our best friends just had a boy, and thanks to us, they are as anti-circ as I am! They were originally planning on it, but during a party I went to change my son's diaper and invited everyone in to view the "perfect penis"







I gave a lesson on the history of circ., the pain and trauma it entailed, etc. etc... everyone at the party was sold. Geez, if only anti-circ. parties were as popular as Mary Kay and tupperware....








Yup, even though I was 20, I knew what I wanted!


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## PurplePixiePooh (Aug 5, 2003)

I voted we both did. I did the research and then sent dh the most descriptive - a web page that actually showed the circ procedure in pictures and had a link to the SOUND of the infant crying. He decided no, we both feel that well its his penis and therefore is his decision. Not ours!


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