# give her pop and candy or let her cio?



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

help help help







:

its so frustrating taking kissa out in public. she crys for everything. yesterday she cried for like 20 minutes for some candy, keep in mind i already gave her 2 quarters to buy candy in the store and i dont know if she ate it or dropped it when shewas refusing to hold my hand in the parking lot but anyway she cried all the way to the next store for the candy. actually this was the second time yesteday she was crying for a long time. we left the house and i gave her crayons snd a book and she wanted some leaves off the ground we gave her leaves but she kept crying. you ask her what she wants and it's unintelligible. i figured out she wanted her crayons that fell down so we stopped the car and i went in teh back seat to get the crayons and she stopped crying. at the 3nd and 3rd stores she also cried. iw as going to buy her more candy but dh said she cannot learn to cry to get what she wants. so i was so emarassed by her crying and this is where i work which makes it even worse!

i dont understand how you people use gd. the only way i can somewhat get her to behave is to say i'm going to take something away from her or send her to her room or make her stay home or something. not to mention i'm trying hard not to spank and trying harder to get dh not to spank. he doesnt even understand that spanking doesnt work. any suggestions for easy books for dads on why NOT to spank?


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I never buy or give them something when they are crying for it. I just can't seem to understand a word they are saying. She could be doing the whole crying thing because that is how it works for her. If she cries, you get her what she wants, she will keep doing that. But, if you give her what she wants (within reason of course) BEFORE she needs to have a meltdown, she will not need to cry to get what she wants.

I think it's mostly trying to be in tuned to your kids, and understand what they want before they get frustrated.

Sometimes, they aren't really crying because the crayons fell down. They are just frustrated anyway, and this was the last straw.

What I would probably do is say yes, as much as possible. Even to candy, or to share a soda with me... but I would do it BEFORE she cries. That way, she will learn other ways of communicating besides crying.

You shouldn't give your children everything they ask for of course. But, for a little while, try to hear everything she says, and try to say "yes" (if you can) before the word "no" comes out of your mouth. Sometimes acknowledging that she wants something is good enough for the child.

If the answer is "No candy" maybe it's really "No candy, but you can pick a water bottle" Substitutions can be pretty handy too.

Again, I am not saying you should give her what she wants every time. I just think that until she can use her words instead of crying, you might try to give it to her for a while. Kind of a training session for all of you.

And, for a frustrated child, two quarters is a lot of responsibility. Maybe you can tell her before you go.. "one candy or drink" and then you be responsible for the money.


----------



## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
but dh said she cannot learn to cry to get what she wants. so i was so emarassed by her crying and this is where i work which makes it even worse!

But don't you think she's already learned to cry to get what she wants? That's the first thing a baby learns, right? They cry, you feed them, change them, whatever. So now you want her to UN-learn to cry to get what she wants.

If it's unintelligble, maybe you could try getting down on her level and saying, "I can't understand you. Can you take a deep breath and tell me what you want in a calm voice? Like this?" while demonstrating. Then, if she says she wants her crayons, you can say, "Okay, I'll go get them. I'm glad I could understand what you wanted."

If she says, "I want candy," you could repeat to her that she wanted candy so she knows that she's been heard, and then calmly repeat your reasons for denying her candy, and then try to distract her.

Also, I can't imagine that there's a parent out there who hasn't been embarrassed by a screaming child. So at least you're not alone!


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I also have a policy of you don't get anything you throw a fit for.

Also- we just don't get candy while out. It's not done, so it's not expected.










-Angela


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

I agree that giving her candy when she's in the store screaming for it is only encouraging her to scream to get candy.

My 5 year old asks for candy every time we go into a store. And he never gets it. Partly because I limit his candy intake anyways and partly because he doesn't need it. He knows this but he keeps trying.

I also do the "I can't understand you, you need to calm down so I can help you" line when he's upset and crying. Over anything.

The one thing I do when I take my kids into a store is make sure they're fed and not overly tired. When I do have to hit the grocery store at 5 with both of them, I'm sure to hear whining and crying over everything they see. They're tired and hungry and not happy about being in the store. Which I completely understand, neither am I!

You might have to make a couple trips to the store with her crying before she really understands that the crying won't necessarily get her everything she wants. Try talking to her before you get into a store about what you expect of her. And definitely, like a pp said, give in on something that is ok to you. A bottle of water from the store is way better than a bottle from home to my boys.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I also have a policy of you don't get anything you throw a fit for.

Yep. There's a book for this, too. The Bearenstian Bears get the Gimmes.


----------



## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Three years old is such a hard age for this because they really do not have the capacity to understand why they can't have something. It makes no sense. If you wanted something very badly and someone denied you for what seemed to you no good reason at all, wouldn't you be frustrated and upset? And then say you expressed that -- which you would be well within your rights to do -- they hurt you as punishment for being "bad"? What would that teach you? Maybe putting it in that context will help your husband to see why spanking isn't right.

The thing is, kids just are going to cry, because they have so little power. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to not be able to make your own decisions about even the most basic things, not to be able to control the course of events? There is so much that adults take for granted in terms of personal autonomy, that they don't have any idea what it would be like to be to not have it.

There are some things you can do to make the crying less likely -- with anticipating needs, and creating a feeling of abundance. Slowing down and allowing yourself lots of "escape" options, so you're less likely to get stressed; stress breeds stress. If your child senses that you're tense and preoccupied, she's going to be more likely to flip out when she loses her candy or whatever. As someone else said, it's not necessarily about that thing in itself; it's just the last straw in a long chain of events that the parent may not even be aware of (because parents do tend to be in their own little worlds.)

About creating that feeling of abundance -- When you're saying 'yes' a lot, there isn't the desperate obsession with getting things. This is a basic psychological principle. A lot of people recognize it with their eating habits -- if they are constantly telling themselves they can't have this or that "bad" food that they really want, they're eventually going to binge on it or compensate for that deficit in some other way. I've found that when I allow to have whatever it is that I want, with no feelings of guilt or remorse, eventually (actually usually very quickly) just the opposite happens -- it works itself out of my system.

But these things will only mitigate the level of conflict. You will still have a three-year-old who at some point will get frustrated and upset because of some perceived loss or injustice. I try not to bring my three-year-old shopping with me, frankly. When she's with me I avoid the candy aisle and shop at stores that don't have candy at the check-out. At the same time, I'll get her something to make the trip less boring. I mean, she doesn't have a reason to be there. Surely I can't be the only one who regards it as painfully boring to be dragged along for someone else's shopping trip. And although as an adult I have tools to deal with that, I don't know how long my patience for it would last if it was a regular occurance. So when I sense that she's starting to get fidgety I'll say something like, "hey, would you like [such-and-such that I'm comfortable with her having]?" Head her off at the pass.







It's not about bribing her; it's about making her more comfortable. Why shouldn't I do that, if I can? And when someone is in a place of comfort to begin with, there's going to be less likelihood that they'll flip out if something happens, because it won't be the last straw.


----------



## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

What kind of crying is it, usually? Is it fall-on-the-ground-kicking-and-screaming temper fits? Is it angry crying? Or is it sad, frustrated, maybe overwhelmed crying?

My first thought after reading your post, is that your daughter sounds _tired._ Do you think she gets enough sleep? She sounds like she just has no resources for coping with strong feelings. Also -- the candy thing -- often kids will crave sweets intensely when they are tired and worn, because they have learned that it gives them a little pick-me-up. Crying jags over candy is often an indicator that a kid needs more sleep.

My approach to tantrums is to be very understanding and empathetic with my words, "_You are sad about the candy, you wish you had some more."_ And then I hold firm with my decision in terms of my actions. I just comfort and be understanding for awhile, and then indicate that it is time to move on. I try not to say, "but" -- as in _"but we aren't going to do that..."_ But I might say something more positive like, "_We'll have candy again tomorrow."_ Or next week. Or whenever.

I don't think that crying is "misbehavior." I think it is just expression of strong feelings. I agree with the other posters and your husband that "giving in" will make things worse in the long run. You don't want to reinforce the behavior. But I do think its really important to be kind and gentle, and understanding -- at the same time holding firm to your decision.


----------



## dulce de leche (Mar 13, 2005)

You've gotten some great advice already. I especially agree with mamaduck and fourlittlebirds.

My dd had a couple of episodes where she started crying and soon became totally unglued and was sobbing, "I can't stop crying, mommy!". I told her that sometimes sad feelings get stuck inside if we don't let them out and held her while she released them. It took a couple of times. I think that we often let little hurts and disappointments build up, especially when we fear disapproval of the people around us.

The other thing that was extremely helpful for my dd was story-telling about a little girl in a similar situation. In the story, the little girl learned how to take deep breaths to help calm down, among other things. Dd really latched on to that and started doing it without prompting.


----------



## Evenstar (Sep 20, 2007)

I recommend _Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child_ by John Gottman. It explains what is going on in a child's mnd when these meltdowns occur and gives ways to pre-empt these meltdowns, so that we can be Emotion Coaches for our children. The reviews at amazon say it better than I can http://www.amazon.com/review/product...owViewpoints=1

It would probably be worth supplementing with another GD book.

also... in the book, spanking is categorized under the authoritarian style of parenting and it explains why not to go that route and offers the emotion coach style as an alternative


----------



## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Three years old can be sooooo not fun!!

You've gotten some good advice!! We've ALL been those parents who have screaming kids in the store...

She has been able to learn that when you say you're going to spank her, you really mean business. She will just as quickly learn that when you say no to her, you really mean business. The transition will probably take a while, that's all!!

She does need to learn that when she cries/pitches a fit that she won't get what she wants...but that'll take time too.

Good luck..the part where they have to learn that you mean what you say without any hitting/threats is definately the hardest hurdle!


----------



## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
My approach to tantrums is to be very understanding and empathetic with my words, "_You are sad about the candy, you wish you had some more."_ And then I hold firm with my decision in terms of my actions. I just comfort and be understanding for awhile, and then indicate that it is time to move on. I try not to say, "but" -- as in _"but we aren't going to do that..."_ But I might say something more positive like, "_We'll have candy again tomorrow."_ Or next week. Or whenever.

My DD is 2.5 and this is what we do too. After communicating that I understand her frustration, I also offer a hug. I may also ask her if there is something else she'd like to have, "I understand that you're frustrated that you can't have candy. I have some crackers in the bag, would you like some of those instead?" These tactics work for the vast majority of the time.

My DD usually goes downhill in a hurry when she's either a) tired or b) hungry. Offering a snack and giving her her favorite blankie works wonders until we can get home and properly fed/rested.

But as a rule, I do not give in to crying. Obviously if she's crying because she's hungry, I give her healthy food and water, but do not give in to the demands for candy/soda/whatever.

I see the tantrums as DD's inability to cope with her strong emotions, not necessarily as intentional misbehavior. Although they can be embarrassing out in public, I see them as a learning experience for her -- essentially that strong emotions do happen but there are better ways to deal with them. And the best way for her to learn better coping skills is to see me model them.


----------



## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

someone briefly mentioned it, and I find it so very helpful. But before we go in somewhere I xpleain what we are doing and why, then i tell her what type of behaviour is ok.

Couple that with reading their clues about how things are going and getting ready to divert often help.

oh and everything else that has been said so far is right on too.


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I suppose I am the minority here (which is the case most of the time in this forum







)

I teach dd that she doesn't have to cry to get what she wants... she can get what she wants and we can come to solutions together that meet all of our needs -- it doesn't have to get to the point of crying.

To me when a child is that worked up, barring other issues like being tired/hungry etc -- they are most likely feeling not heard, or feel very strongly about something -- or they feel as though they have to cry and get all dramatic because calmly telling you what they want or need doesn't get them heard and they know pitching a huge fit will at least get your attention (even if it is negative).

DD would have gotten candy. I would have made all attempts for it to be a candy I felt good about (things like fruit leather, a bit of organic chocolate, something she loves and we don't purchase often due to budget issues) but if it wasn't a candy I felt good about, she would have gotten it too. Barring allergies, accessive and unhealthy use (candy all day every day forever







) or health issues (type one diabetic that might die) -- why in the world can't a child have something that they enjoy? Because *we* have determined it isn't something they *should* have and because we want to teach them that feeling strongly about something or getting upset about something that is important to them is not worth a hoot unless we deem it important to us?

Nah, not how we work. We have very few fits around here because dd knows she doesn't have to have a fit to be heard or to get what she needs... or _wants_.

Wants are only a hair below needs around here and I am amazed at dd's (and other children's I have known) ability and desire to work with their caregivers when they know their caregivers are willing to work with them.

Good luck mama, some tantrums you absolutely cannot avoid though even if you are doing everything you think is right. There are times dd just needs to get it out, no matter what I am doing or not doing, offering or whatever... it is healthy to express herself although we do use the "it is hard for me to understand you when you are so upset.... I want to help you, can you please tell me what you want/need/why you are upset" this is not AT ALL done as a manipulative move. If she is tantruming but I can literally understand her words I don't tell her I *can't understand her* -- only when I literally can't.

Take care and congrats on your commitment to stop spanking. Big first step.


----------



## 93085 (Oct 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
DD would have gotten candy. I would have made all attempts for it to be a candy I felt good about (things like fruit leather, a bit of organic chocolate, something she loves and we don't purchase often due to budget issues) but if it wasn't a candy I felt good about, she would have gotten it too. Barring allergies, accessive and unhealthy use (candy all day every day forever







) or health issues (type one diabetic that might die) -- why in the world can't a child have something that they enjoy? Because *we* have determined it isn't something they *should* have and because we want to teach them that feeling strongly about something or getting upset about something that is important to them is not worth a hoot unless we deem it important to us.

This is currently being discussed on the thread called "Daily Gifts?"

Personally, my daughter does not get candy or gifts every time we're out, for one, because our household budget simply cannot shoulder that kind of daily expense. DH and I don't waste money on Starbucks and snack machines for ourselves, either. This is just the way our family works. Any kind of "fun" money we have goes toward things we do together as a family; this is a priority for us. Our kids get lovely, wonderful gifts, sometimes even silly, frivolous ones, on birthdays, Christmas, and Easter, but not just for making it through a shopping trip. Further, I don't want to send her the message that you get a material reward every time you a) accompany someone to the store, or b) throw a hissy fit.

I'm all about giving the girls what they need to be happy while we're shopping. We always bring toys and snacks. They simply do not need me to purchase something from the store inventory to be comfortable or entertained.

So my advice is, bring a big ol' tote bag full of anything you could imagine your child could need and tell her ahead of time that you're not buying candy or toys. Then stick to it even if she screams. If she screams either leave right away, or finish your shopping in a hurry and then leave. Repeat the next time. She'll catch on. In the meantime, let her help you with shopping choices to the degree possible. Nothing wrong with letting her get the pretty paper towels or Dora Band-Aids.


----------



## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

Well, what are you trying to use GD FOR? I personally do not use it so that my kids will never cry. I think one of the biggest misconceptions of GD is that if you are using it right, your kids will never cry (I am exempting TCL here- you do not seem like you are going for TCL at the present moment.). I don't really use it so that they will be obedient, but I do enforce personal boundaries, and one of them is certainly not being ordered to buy whatever the child wants, whether or not I have the budget or inclination.

If mine wanted candy, and I said no, for a good reason, even in the most respectful possible way, they may well cry. But that's OKAY. I get frustrated when I can't have what I want, too. I have learned to process my disappointment in less disruptive ways, and to learn to seek happiness despite the fact that the world does not seem to bend to my incredible will at all times. One of my more important jobs, as I see it, to help my DC's learn those same lessons in a respectful, loving environment. This means setting them up for success(trying to run errands when they are at their best, if we do experience a meltdown, stopping, sitting on a bench and talking it through), but it does not mean expecting that they will never be frustrated, and possibly even appear out of control.


----------



## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I also have a policy of you don't get anything you throw a fit for.

Also- we just don't get candy while out. It's not done, so it's not expected.










-Angela

Thats our rules, too.







:


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with limiting treats. I will sometimes get my daughter a balloon when we're out, and other times, she doesn't get one. I will sometimes get something she pulls off the shelf (if it's reasonably healthy - or occassionally, not), and other times I don't. I explain why or why not to her...she's 16mos old, so I'm sure she doesn't always get it, but, she will.

I want ice cream every time I go into the store, but I DON'T get it every time because 1) it's not in the budget and 2) it's not healthy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with some limits. I acknowledge her desires, but, we can't always get what we want. It's a fact of life. I'm not trying to be mean; I'm trying to raise a daughter who understands that, while she will ALWAYS get what she needs, so long as I'm alive, sometimes her wants will have to take a backseat.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
DD would have gotten candy. I would have made all attempts for it to be a candy I felt good about (things like fruit leather, a bit of organic chocolate, something she loves and we don't purchase often due to budget issues) but if it wasn't a candy I felt good about, she would have gotten it too. Barring allergies, accessive and unhealthy use (candy all day every day forever







) or health issues (type one diabetic that might die) -- why in the world can't a child have something that they enjoy? Because *we* have determined it isn't something they *should* have and because we want to teach them that feeling strongly about something or getting upset about something that is important to them is not worth a hoot unless we deem it important to us?


Well for us it's a couple of things- 1. I don't want the "Tradition" to be always getting candy (which for my dd things quickly become an always thing







) and 2. it's a budget thing. I'm often trying to stick with just what I *had* to get.

-Angela


----------



## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

We set ground rules when we go in and leave if need be. It tends to a)let them know you mean what you say and b)limit the crying, because they know you mean what you say.

Granted, it's been a few years since we've needed to do that, but definitely saved my sanity.


----------



## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
i dont understand how you people use gd. the only way i can somewhat get her to behave is to say i'm going to take something away from her or send her to her room or make her stay home or something. not to mention i'm trying hard not to spank and trying harder to get dh not to spank. he doesnt even understand that spanking doesnt work. any suggestions for easy books for dads on why NOT to spank?

I don't think using GD and modifying behavior always go together. For me, GD (in these kinds of situations) means that I won't resort to certain things (spanking or yelling, for example) and that I will validate my child's emotions and try to be there with him while he has them. The point isn't necessarily to change the behavior. I think the behavior often changes as a result of just riding the emotions out with him, but it isn't the focus of my role in the relationship. If there's a limit (like no candy today) then there is a limit. He might be angry and I can validate that and help him move on. He has the right to be disappointed and that's ok.

Just today, the board game my ds and I were playing didn't go the way he wanted it to go. He got very upset and my typical reaction when tired and grumpy might be to find this very irritating and to get annoyed with his poor sportsmanship and desire to have every move go his way. Instead, I simply validated that he felt disappointed and then we hugged for a long time while he cried. I told him that I remember feeling just the same way when I was a kid...he loves this, btw. Whenever I can relate to him from my own childhood experiences, I think it helps him to feel that I really do get it.

Another thing that struck me was your post's title. I don't think CIO fits this situation. CIO really has more to do with sleep-training...I only bring this up because I don't want you feeling that you're abandoning your child and traumatizing her if she cries or has tantrums over limits that you set. It's hard to hear crying (especially when it's of the whining or tantrum variety) but it's normal. If you figure that the alternative is stuffing the emotions, it can be a little easier to take knowing that it's a healthy discharge of emotion.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

A couple of things occur to me. First, do you need to take dd to so many stores? At that age, seeing candy and toys and not getting them is really hard. Going to stores is hard. Going to more than one store without losing the plot is well-nigh impossible! Can you avoid shopping with her for a while, or at least, cut it down to one store max per day?

I discuss our purchases before we enter stores with my dc. I often tell them that we're buying x, y and z, and have no money left over for any extras, so there is no point in asking. We can admire stuff, and we can decide to write it on our Christmas list, but there is no point in nagging me to buy it, as I can't afford extras today. That's the end of it, there is no negotiation. It's important to me that my children understand that I have a budget, and that I can't be wasteful.

Even my 2 yo understands the terms 'expensive' and 'can't afford.' He will often tell me something is cool but we don't have money for it.







Truth is, often I _could_ afford to buy some item they decide they want, but I won't because I don't want to endorse impulse-buying or blind consumerism. I want my kids to know that there are limits to what is reasonable to buy. Right now, I keep it simple, like 'can't afford', but in time I plan to have them understand that we may be able to afford something, but our family values mean that we won't buy it. Like some cheap yucky plastic made-in-China toy, or some candy that costs 10 x as much in a pack at the checkout than it would if we bought a big bag and made it last us a few months.

Personally, in your situation I would tell my child that we no longer buy candy in stores, period, and I'd stick to it, no matter how much crying. I might buy a bag and keep it at home, so that if she starts asking, I can say no, but we have some at home and you can have a piece when we get back. But I"d put an end to the impulse buying. I think it sets you up for endless demands, and some children respond better to a blanket rule.

Once she has grasped that you just don't buy candy or toys when you are out, you can start making exceptions, but make it clear that it is an exception. (I wouldnt do this for a matter of months or maybe even a year or so though!) My kids know that when dh is with us, the rules may change, because it is a weekend or something. They also know that I might occasionally say something like, "You know, I think we could all do with a treat today, so lets' do it!" or "We have that $10 from grandma, so I guess we could do ice cream," or whatever. But I always give an explanation as to why we can fritter a little money, so that they understand that it is not something we do without thinking about it carefully. That's just how I want my kids to view money when they grow up - to appreciate what they have and spend it wisely.


----------



## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
Even my 2 yo understands the terms 'expensive' and 'can't afford.' He will often tell me something is cool but we don't have money for it.







Truth is, often I _could_ afford to buy some item they decide they want, but I won't because I don't want to endorse impulse-buying or blind consumerism. I want my kids to know that there are limits to what is reasonable to buy. Right now, I keep it simple, like 'can't afford', but in time I plan to have them understand that we may be able to afford something, but our family values mean that we won't buy it. Like some cheap yucky plastic made-in-China toy, or some candy that costs 10 x as much in a pack at the checkout than it would if we bought a big bag and made it last us a few months.

ITA. I would only add that I think even two year olds can understand "I'm choosing not to buy...". I found myself saying "We can't afford...." out of habit because I grew up very poor and heard that all my life. I think it's important not to get this notion in a kiddo's head. It can be anxiety-provoking and it becomes an easy default for the adult to say. I think getting into the habit of talking about choices is better. Just my opinion, of course!


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
ITA. I would only add that I think even two year olds can understand "I'm choosing not to buy...". I found myself saying "We can't afford...." out of habit because I grew up very poor and heard that all my life. I think it's important not to get this notion in a kiddo's head. It can be anxiety-provoking and it becomes an easy default for the adult to say. I think getting into the habit of talking about choices is better. Just my opinion, of course!

Good point! I tend to think of 'can't afford' meaning more that we can't afford it if we are going to be able to afford other choices, rather than we are so poor that we couldn't blow 50 cents on a candy bar. With my older kids, I explain in detail that we aren't spending money on junk, because we need to save for x y or z, or because we have a lot of expenses coming up, or because if we did spend 50 cents too many times, we'd not have money left over for bigger items that we all like to buy. With the 2 yo I tend to say "Can't afford' or "Don't have money for that." I'll experiment with "choosing not to buy", but I'm wondering if that leaves them with the idea that you are controlling them at your own whim, which may feel more unreasonable. "Can't afford" seems less personal and more factual.

Hmm, good point, and that gives me food for thought! Thanks!

I did have my 5 yo tell someone a while ago that Mummy couldn't afford some really cheap item, which raised eyebrows, as it made us sound either really poor or really cheap.


----------



## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I don't think caving in to unreasonable requests can be considered CIO. And for me GD is not doing something potentially harmful or unhealthy just to keep my child happy.
I agree with other posters who said that you can try to prevent the meltdowns by not taking her shopping to often, or making sure she is well rested and had a healthy snack just before you go shopping.
We can't prevent/stop all meltdowns. Sometimes it's OK to cry.
My favourite GD book is "Kids are worth it!" by Barbara Coloroso. It doesn't offer specific "techniques" à la Supernanny, but it shows what a parent's goal and accomplishments can be in using GD.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

thanks everyone for the replies, i think this mignt need to go to nightime parenting but it's quite possible she is tired. but its hard for me to believe when it takes numerous hours for her to go to sleep now, and it only started being like this recently when she turned 3. say i start putting her to bed at 11 and she doesnt go to sleep till 1 or 2. if i put her to bed at 8 she might be prolonging it 6 hours instead of 3. and i've just started laying down with her after her being so independant for her whole life

when shes crying its on the floor flailing arms and legs. even if i tried to get down on her level and talke to her calmly she wouldnt hear me, i cant even hear myself think! she's only recenlty started talking and i cant understand everything she says and other people, dh brothers understand even less

it's all so frustrating, thanks so much for the support ladies


----------



## mama-meg (Nov 30, 2003)

So, just to address your night time sleep comment -- my three year old doesn't want to go to sleep either. Especially when he most needs it -- the more tired he gets, the longer bedtime lasts! So what we did was set up a routine that starts with dinner. We eat dinner, as soon as dinner is done we get into the bath, from bath to PJs, to teeth brushing, to stories, to lullabies. Now that he's going to bed at 7:30 he falls asleep much quicker - before we had the routine he used to stay up much later. Now I do everything in my power to put him to bed before he gets noticably tired.

Before he weaned, I could just nurse him to sleep any old time and it always worked. Now that he is weaned, we depend on the routine.


----------



## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh, sweetie -- she must be tired! And you must be too. I really believe that 80% of these issues will dissapear if you can get a handle on her sleep problems. It sounds like you need to put some planning and effort into her routines and her schedule, and try to get control of that aspect of her life so that she can be more rested in general.

Eliminating soda and candy will be a part of that, btw. They can really screw with a child's ability to rest. Also, look carefully at her television viewing habits. Having the tv on can stimulate her and keep her wired/awake. You may want to start waking her up at a consistant time every morning, if you don't do that already.

I strongly recommend the book "Sleepless in America," by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. You can order it used from Amazon for a few dollars. The ideas in that book *really* made a big difference in our children's lives. The biggeest concept is consistancy and routine.


----------



## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Posting again -- about her speech -- if she has speech delays this could also contribute to tantrums. She may be frustrated that she can't express herself effectively. I would call your school district ASAP, and arrange for her to be assessed for speech by early intervention or childfind, or whatever your state calls it. It will be free -- and yes, the school district does evaluate and provide speech therapy for children as young as 3.


----------



## Adasmommy (Feb 26, 2005)

I agree with those who don't give a thing that a fit is being thrown about. And that consistency is everything--if you always stick to your 'no' when you say it, she will learn that screaming about it is useless. It's not just easier for you, consistency is easier for children to live with too!

Some ideas:

Bring snacks to the store, or open something you're buying, for her to snack on while you finish shopping.

Engage your dd's help. "Which bananas look good to you?" and "Let me know if you see the apple juice," as if you don't know exactly where it is!

If you want to, pick something to be a regular store treat at that store. When we shop at the health food store, we always get a twenty-five cent lollipop from the checkout at the end. She likes to talk about the lollipop she's going to get. Keeps her optimistic







It's something I don't feel is unhealthy or too expensive so I have no problems with this routine. I don't think that it's necessary or good to buy a treat for a child everytime you go out. But make sure you aren't buying yourself frivolities either so you can explain yourself without hypocrisy!

Candy is a really popular thing to try to tempt our children with. Aside from the healthy lollipop at the one specific store, we don't buy candy, and that saves us a lot of discussions about it!

Also, sometimes my days seem to become a series of adult errands that she is forced to accompany me on. When I realize this is happening (usually because she is becoming unhappy, and unhappy three year old on errands sucks big time), I try to schedule a playground stop next!

Or you could have a routine where you regularly do coloring together at home after a shopping trip. Maybe discuss with dd at the beginning of the day that you need to do x and y errands, and what important thing does she need to do today. Then schedule it in (within reason







).


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I remembered another technique that works well- when we shop we have a list. The candy is not on the list. Once in a blue moon (I think it's happened twice total) she asked me ahead of time to put candy on the list. I did. We got it.









-Angela


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Also, I can't imagine that there's a parent out there who hasn't been embarrassed by a screaming child. So at least you're not alone!









Isn't that the truth!

I find it's helpful when I tell ds in advance "We aren't getting any candy today." He usually negotiates in advance to get something else, and I agree on something kinda healthy. Fruit and veggies are not limited, so he can pick out any of that he wants.
This is for the grocery store. As for other stores, I don't have any answers!

I read once (and love) the advice that giving our kids what they want doesn't spoil them. The problem is when we give them things we don't want to give them, in order to stop a scene, or placate them.
ah, it's said better here- http://ponderingparenting.com/2007/08/08/saying-yes/

Quote:

I've recently been considering the idea that it isn't saying yes to kids that spoils them. It isn't even giving them what they want when they want it. It's saying yes grudgingly.
I agree that it's not CIO if they are crying because you refuse to give them candy. It's not abandoning (though I imagine they're not too happy about it).


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
when shes crying its on the floor flailing arms and legs. even if i tried to get down on her level and talke to her calmly she wouldnt hear me, i cant even hear myself think!

When ds does this, it gets overwhelming for me too. I feel pressured, and tensions get high and all that. Not only for crying in a store, but when fighting/crying with a friend over a toy or something, and it's getting heated. Loud sounds affect me a lot anyways.
I tell him that I need him to chill so I can think of a solution. He knows from experience that I'll do what I can to figure something out, so he's willing to work with me. I also think that, by saying that to him, he knows that I'm paying attention and I care, so that probably helps his feelings.


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
...i already gave her 2 quarters to buy candy in the store and i dont know if she ate it or dropped it when shewas refusing to hold my hand in the parking lot ...

I noticed you have a younger child too, so I understand that keeping track of the two of them is a whole other level of difficult.

But this part caught my eye. In looking at my relationship with my own 3 yo, whether or not she was successful in getting and eating some promised candy would be HUGE in her world. Huge. If she had to take some money and go off by herself to make the choice of candy, without sharing that 'important' decision with me, it would be very sad and lonely for her. And then if she lost her money or candy so that she never got to eat the candy? Catastrophic. Of course she would be upset.

It seems as though there might be some level of disconnect between you and her. I imagine it has a lot to do with being a frazzled, overworked parent on your part. But I would think that it is the bigger picture of what she is upset over.


----------



## burke-a-bee (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I remembered another technique that works well- when we shop we have a list. The candy is not on the list. Once in a blue moon (I think it's happened twice total) she asked me ahead of time to put candy on the list. I did. We got it.









-Angela









:

I've convinced my kids that breakfast bars are cookies. If we put cookies on the list ahead of time, then we get "raspberry cookies" (cereal bars) instead of other sugary stuff. Maybe you could count fruit roll ups or another more nutritional snack as candy. Call it "fruit candy" and put it on the list before you leave.
We also call vitamins "treats". They beg for them.


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 
But this part caught my eye. In looking at my relationship with my own 3 yo, whether or not she was successful in getting and eating some promised candy would be HUGE in her world. Huge. If she had to take some money and go off by herself to make the choice of candy, without sharing that 'important' decision with me, it would be very sad and lonely for her. And then if she lost her money or candy so that she never got to eat the candy? Catastrophic. Of course she would be upset.

It seems as though there might be some level of disconnect between you and her. I imagine it has a lot to do with being a frazzled, overworked parent on your part. But I would think that it is the bigger picture of what she is upset over.

Add to that a new baby in the family and very recently stopping hitting (if I recall correctly??)--and there's going to be a *huge* (as in lengthy and difficult) period of adjustment as you work to build up trust and attachment.

And I'm with Capt. Crunchy in terms of what works for our family. When we can't, it's not an issue, b/c when we can, we do. It's all about the trust!


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
and i've just started laying down with her after her being so independant for her whole life

Oh YAY!!! I was following your other thread, and am so glad that you're laying down with her to help her sleep. I KNOW it's difficult, and I think it's wonderful that you're trying to help her in the ways that she's asking for.

Quote:

she's only recenlty started talking and i cant understand everything she says and other people, dh brothers understand even less
Oh goodness, that reminds me of what I apparently was like. I would talk and talk and talk, but NO ONE could understand me. My mother says I would get *so frustrated* trying to communicate, and eventually just break down and lose it. DD occassionally has this problem too, although not as badly as I did. And it really helps me to try to imagine what it would be like to want to tell my loved ones something that feels direly important to me, and they don't get it at all, eventually get tired of trying to GUESS, and start ignoring me. How awful!!

I try really hard to get DD to explain in ANOTHER way what she's trying to say if I can't decipher her words. "I don't understand what word you're saying, DD, but I want to know what you're trying to say. I know you want me to look at something. What color is it? Does it make a sound? What does it look like?" Anything to get her to use _other_ words to describe the word I can't hear clearly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I remembered another technique that works well- when we shop we have a list. The candy is not on the list. Once in a blue moon (I think it's happened twice total) she asked me ahead of time to put candy on the list. I did. We got it.









That's brilliant, and I'm gonna do it.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *burke-a-bee* 







:

I've convinced my kids that breakfast bars are cookies. If we put cookies on the list ahead of time, then we get "raspberry cookies" (cereal bars) instead of other sugary stuff. Maybe you could count fruit roll ups or another more nutritional snack as candy. Call it "fruit candy" and put it on the list before you leave.
We also call vitamins "treats". They beg for them.

please please please dont get me started on teh vitamins again. she thinks they're candy yes, but she wants a bottle a day, and crys all day long for vitamins. io dont even want to buy them anymore! unless i crush them and hide them in her food or something


----------



## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
please please please dont get me started on teh vitamins again. she thinks they're candy yes, but she wants a bottle a day, and crys all day long for vitamins. io dont even want to buy them anymore! unless i crush them and hide them in her food or something

This is where setting the expectation before giving them to her can make a big difference. My kids get the gummy vitamins that look (and taste!) like candy. Before I open the bottle, I say "You can have only three. Do you want to take them out of the bottle or do you want me to?" They usually ask to take them out themselves and do a great job of only taking 3, although every once in a while they will sneak a 4th. If they ask for more, I explain that eating too many vitamins will make them sick. And I offer something else to eat.


----------



## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

Three year olds were put on this earth to make us want to lock ourselves in the bathroom and cry. They are soooo hard, and you have my deepest empathy on this.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Oh, sweetie -- she must be tired! And you must be too. I really believe that 80% of these issues will dissapear if you can get a handle on her sleep problems. It sounds like you need to put some planning and effort into her routines and her schedule, and try to get control of that aspect of her life so that she can be more rested in general.

I strongly recommend the book "Sleepless in America," by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. You can order it used from Amazon for a few dollars. The ideas in that book *really* made a big difference in our children's lives. The biggeest concept is consistancy and routine.


I have to say that MSK changed our lives as well. We did a phone consult with her for my son, she immediately indentified sleep deficit, and within a week, he was a totally different kid.

When I read your original post, my first thought was that the errands may be too much for her. I never plan for more than two stops with my younger ones. It is too many transitions and too much time for them to feel out of control with their little lives. For our family, a third stop is begging for a tantrum.

I always have snacks in the car. I head off candy discussions by being able to say, "You just had a fruit leather, I know you are not hungry" or "There is an apple in the car if you are still hungry when we finish."

Good luck. The beauty is that being three is temporary.


----------



## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

People have already commented with most of what I was going to say:

* three is a hard age
* too many errands in a row will ruin their ability to cope
* she sounds overtired
* sugar doesn't help good behavior
* stick to your shopping list and don't provide treats

okay. I have one more: the quiet voice. Before the tantrum is underway, get down to her level, get close up, and speak in a low and very calm, not angry voice. Either give her some piece of information she doesn't have about what you are doing next, or tell her that you are proud of the way she's been holding up--or as a last resort, a calm reprimand like, "even if you cry, I'm not going to buy candy."

The low quiet voice is a secret weapon. They have to drop their own voices to hear you, and it can get you both really serious and calm. AND, the only reason i can do it at all is that I'm imitating my grandmother! I'm a natural yeller. I just fake it until I make it with that voice.


----------

