# My DC called a girl at school "Stupid Jew" .....WWYD?!?!



## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

I am completely







!!!!

There is absolutely NO excuse for such words from any of my children! I am baffled, truly sad! I know that many use the word "Jew" and it is accepted that Jewish ppl are called "Jews"... but I am not one to believe that it is okay. IMO using that word is not okay! *I* feel it is wrong! I have never known my child to ever use language like this!

He has been out of school for the past few days (had 102-103 temp). Today was his first day back since Monday. The assistant principle called me couple hours ago, said he was in the office. She told me that my son was using these words to this girl on Monday and followed up again today upon his return to school.

I guess that either this girl was kicking him and he called her this, OR, he called her this and she kicked him. IDNK which way it happened, I am at a loss.

No parent wants to think their child could be capable of saying/doing something they have been raised NOT TO DO/SAY, but well this is proof it happens.

What would you do?

I will be having a lengthy talk with him when he gets home, in about 20 minutes. I have already taken the PS2 down.

I want to be gentle with this, and would LOVE some suggestions on what other mothers would do in a similar situation.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to read this post, and thank you even more for any replies!


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

I'm at a loss, because my first reaction is "I wouldn't be gentle about it." -- I come down very emphatically and vehemently with people of any age who demonstrate attitudes of bigotry/intolerance toward people of different religions, races, etc.

I understand that kids do/say things that they have been raised not to do and say -- I've told my children a thousand and one times not to push each other, for instance, and it still hasn't taken.









However, a comment like this needs to be understood by a child that it will not be tolerated in any uncertain terms, under any conditions. I would take punitive actions - PS2 away, privileges lost, etc. -- and preventative actions: why would he say that? What does he understand Judaism to be? He needs to understand that using a religious term to insult someone is absolutely verboten and will not be tolerated. In my opinion, there are absolutes in the world and this is one of them.

Good luck, mama.


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## MissRubyandKen (Nov 2, 2005)

I would have a very serious talk with him. You don't say how old your son is. This could make a big difference. Perhaps he really doesn't understand what a phrase like 'Stupid Jew' means. I would find out from him exactly what happened and exactly where he has heard those words spoken. If the girl did kick him prior to him saying that I would walk him through how he should have dealt with the situation. Give him appropriate options to choose from in case it happens again, or somewhat similar. Once you find out where he heard that expression you will be able to better talk to him about not saying it. I would explain in very clear language what that means and why it is not okay to say it. I would then point out that calling someone stupid in itself is not appropriate either. Lastly I don't think I would punish my son for this. I'm not sure what taking away a video game will teach him. I would have him either call the girl, write a letter to her, or you call the parents and arrange for them to meet at her home or at a public place where it is possible to have some privacy, like an uncrowded park with adult supervision, but also some space. He needs to express an apology to her. Not a forced one necessarily, but hopefully after you explain to him what he said, a willing one. This is the first time your son has said anything like this that you know of and hopefully it will be the last so try not to go too overboard, yk? If you punish him he may just focus on being angry and feel it is unfair, rather than absorb the lesson he needs to learn here.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

I don't know what I would do.

I know that in my classrooms I have encountered bigotted speech and behavior that I found unacceptable. One of the things I started doing was working with Teaching Tolerance sources available on tolerance.org They used to have a section for parents...anyway, you might consider looking through some of the projects and assignments on the matter.

I am not a fan of making homework punishment as it makes homework feel like prison rather than fun (







), but in this case I would (and in cases like this with my students I have done this) assign a research project into the issue. Perhaps a little depth of understanding into the power of prejudice might make him think twice about referring to people as their religion...I particularly like this kit: http://www.tolerance.org/kit/writing-change There are lot of shorter activities and longer ones that might help, and I think they could be adapted to a parent child activity with some tweaking. ETA: one of them (I think in section 1?) is about reducing people to one element of who they are and how this serves to dehumanize them, and asks the students to "put the people back into the language".

It's really good and also gets my students thinking about ways they are encouraged to forget about the humanity of others on a day to day basis.


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
I am not a fan of making homework punishment as it makes homework feel like prison rather than fun (







), but in this case I would (and in cases like this with my students I have done this) assign a research project into the issue. Perhaps a little depth of understanding into the power of prejudice might make him think twice about referring to people as their religion...I particularly like this kit: http://www.tolerance.org/kit/writing-change There are lot of shorter activities and longer ones that might help, and I think they could be adapted to a parent child activity with some tweaking. ETA: one of them (I think in section 1?) is about reducing people to one element of who they are and how this serves to dehumanize them, and asks the students to "put the people back into the language".

It's really good and also gets my students thinking about ways they are encouraged to forget about the humanity of others on a day to day basis.

That's a great idea.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

The reason I don't punish is because I don't think punishment works. If I punished just for really important things, then it would mean that I thought punishment was the only thing I could count on to work so I would at least use it in those cases, but that's not a belief of mine. Also, I don't like to assume the worst possible motivation, in this case that he has internalized discriminatory feelings. It sounds to me like maybe this is something he's heard other kids say, and thought it sounded cool or tough, but didn't really understand how serious and hurtful it is.

How old is he? If peer pressure is involved, then he needs to learn that it isn't okay to follow everything peers do and say, which is an issue that goes beyond this particular problem.

Finally, I would take this as an educational opportunity about discrimination in general and specifically Nazisim and the Holocaust so that he understands the history behind what he said. Books, movies, etc. If he hasn't learned about this, he might be clueless and not understand why it's so wrong. I have to think that most children, if they understand the history, would never ever talk like that. I try to assume the best practically possible motivation when there's a problem so that's where I'd start.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith* 
I'm at a loss, because my first reaction is "I wouldn't be gentle about it."
Good luck, mama.










This is exactly why I have come here to post this thread in hopes for other ideas. My very first thought was "OMG, I AM GOING TO TO KICK HIS @$$" Of course, that is an extreme thought and I would not, but holy crap, what now?!?!

I think I am going to sit him in front of this PC (me beside him) and make him research the Jewish religion and write an essay... OH, maybe I will just print things out for him and make him sit at the table to do it, that would be better!

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it!


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

HOw old is he? I would really chat with him and explore why he used those terms. It may not be as bad as you think it is.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Peer pressure is a huge thing for him. He is 14! So yes, he knows better! I love the ideas of 'teaching him' vs 'disciplining' him. The PS2 is not being hooked back up regardless, he knows if I ever get a call from the school about some trouble that he has gotten into that the game is taken away. He received Saturday school for this incident.

Thank you for the link!!!!

Asked him about his day, he said he did not mean to be hurtful towards this girl, that he was saying it as a joke, but how on earth can ANYONE ever think something like that is funny, HOWEVER there were kids laughing after he said it.
In that situation, *I* probably would have kicked him also.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

Further talking to him....

He does not know if she is Jewish or not, this is something that he and her have been doing between themselves for a couple months, today was NOT the first time he called her a Jew, oh - and he called her a "Jew" not a stupid one {not any better} it was another child/schoolmate telling the teacher that started the discipline action in school.

I asked him why would he think this was okay, he has no good answer. Did say that it is not okay for someone who is a NAZI to call someone a Jew, so yes...
I MUST EDUCATE MY CHILD.

This is one of those educational 'trying times as a parent', for parent and child. I do not even want to know what my partner is going to think/say!


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I would first want to know what context it was said in, because that would change how I'd deal with it.

It may not be so much as him saying "You're a stupid Jew," just out of the blue, for the purpose of being cruel or funny, but perhaps there was something more. Somehow, somewhere the "Jew" part had to come into the conversation, likely initiated by her.

Simple example, _probably far fetched_, but it does change the context:

Girl kicks, boys get mad, perhaps someone says "That's not very Christian" or "What would Jesus do?" to which she responds "I'm a Jew." As in, I'm exempt. So your son responds, "Well, then you're a STUPID Jew." (She has classified herself as a Jew, thinking that somehow exempts her from the rules of polite behavior, and he tells her she's stupid to think that way.)

KWIM? It changes how it was used and isn't so horrific.

And yeah, it probably didn't happen this way. But it MIGHT have. Find out first what happened.









Just read your lastest post. Hmmmm. So he doesn't even know if she's a Jew or not. Well, then disregard my thoughts.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Ouch. I just read your latest post.

It sounds like some education is in order. It reminds me of when I was that age, I once called my sister a 'waste of skin'. I think I heard it on a tv show, and it got a lot of laughs. Someone near me was horrified, and said-- that's so mean! And I thought about it, and it was.

I still feel bad about it, obviously.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Also, slightly OT, but is the word 'Jew" in itself considered offensive? I thought it was the same as saying Christian, or Hindu?


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

What popped into my mind reading your post is the TV show _South Park_. There is a little fat boy who calls the Jewish boy things like that. You may not be letting your child (I hope not, anyway!) watch it but the girl's parents might let her.

My point is that it is important to discover from where this is coming so as to address the problem and not just a symptom. Also I think explanation of the term and why it is an inappropriate usage would be good though I might focus more on the "stupid" part and less on the "Jew". I mean, he might not have that division in his mind already but he KNOWS calling someone stupid is not polite. It's a good way to introduce the idea of bigotry but I would focus heavily on what he already knows is wrong as well.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Minxie* 
What popped into my mind reading your post is the TV show _South Park_. There is a little fat boy who calls the Jewish boy things like that. You may not be letting your child (I hope not, anyway!) watch it but the girl's parents might let her.

My point is that it is important to discover from where this is coming so as to address the problem and not just a symptom. Also I think explanation of the term and why it is an inappropriate usage would be good though I might focus more on the "stupid" part and less on the "Jew". I mean, he might not have that division in his mind already but he KNOWS calling someone stupid is not polite. It's a good way to introduce the idea of bigotry but I would focus heavily on what he already knows is wrong as well.

this!! it is the first thing i thought of when i read your op, then when you stated he just called her a jew with no stupid, i knew it sounded like SP. he may or may not watch it but im sure that age group (so perhaps he and his peers throw it around) does and he probably does not understand the context and what is funny to some (ie SP as a whole) is not funny to others and it sure isnt okay at school!







SP imo shouldnt even be viewed by anyone under 18.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I haven't read any responses.

But, I'd ask him (until he could give me an answer) "What does that mean? What did YOU mean when you said that?" He wouldn't get away with "Idunno". He'd have to either have an answer, or FIND an answer.

Then, I'd make him watch some age appropriate movie with me about what it means to be a "stupid Jew".

I just can't think of a single movie that's age appropriate.... But, I know there are some. My teenage daughter and I watched "In the arms of strangers" http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Into_...3?trkid=438403 It was VERY good... but, it's a documentary, and I don't know if it's appropriate for a young child.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

There's one about a group of kids who collect paperclips, one for every victim of the Holocaust. You might check into that one.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I haven't read any responses.

But, I'd ask him (until he could give me an answer) "What does that mean? What did YOU mean when you said that?" He wouldn't get away with "Idunno". He'd have to either have an answer, or FIND an answer.

Then, I'd make him watch some age appropriate movie with me about what it means to be a "stupid Jew".

I just can't think of a single movie that's age appropriate.... But, I know there are some. My teenage daughter and I watched "In the arms of strangers" http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Into_...3?trkid=438403 It was VERY good... but, it's a documentary, and I don't know if it's appropriate for a young child.

The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas is a good one. Also Life is Beautiful and Jacob the Liar would all be good.

ETA: I am not sure though that I would stress so much the point about anti-semitism in specific (though not a bad thing to learn about at the moment since he's not sure about it) but more from the angle of what happens when we take one part of someone's personal life and use it as a noun to _define_ who/what they are. What happens to our brains when we call someone A jew, or A black, or A gay. How does it change the meaning of what we are saying? How might it make that person seem slightly less human in our minds? How does it allow us to go from describing each other to categorizing and discriminating against one another? Because today it's Jew tomorrow it's Gay, and the root is the same, even if the background for the hatred in society is different.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
Also, slightly OT, but is the word 'Jew" in itself considered offensive? I thought it was the same as saying christian, or Hindu?

AFAIK, the word Jew itself is not offensive. However, it sounds like he was using it as an expletive/insult, which would make it offensive.

I have no idea what I would do in this situation. It would be a lot easier if your son were younger - I think I could handle it with my 9 year old, because I'd assume he heard someone else say it and didn't realize how or why it's so offensive. With a teen, though, I just don't know.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I do want to say, however, that I don't think focusing on the Holocaust would be the way to go. What he did was absolutely offensive, but it certainly isn't on the same scale as genocide. I think it would be easy for a teenager to rationalize away that what HE did as entirely unrelated to what Hitler did, and therefore "not that bad." It also boils down the whole Jewish experience/history into one tragedy, and I think that's problematic in a lot of ways. As well, I don't think the fact that he chose "Jew" as an insult is the point - unless there is an indication that he's hanging out with neo-Nazis, the Jewish religion/culture was probably just the handy target - he could have just as easily picked gay people, women, hispanic people, disabled people, etc. It's the mindset behind it that needs addressing, as opposed to this specific use of this specific word - unless, as I said, there's an indication that he actually has a specific prejudice against Jewish people.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I do want to say, however, that I don't think focusing on the Holocaust would be the way to go. What he did was absolutely offensive, but it certainly isn't on the same scale as genocide. I think it would be easy for a teenager to rationalize away that what HE did as entirely unrelated to what Hitler did, and therefore "not that bad." It also boils down the whole Jewish experience/history into one tragedy, and I think that's problematic in a lot of ways. As well, I don't think the fact that he chose "Jew" as an insult is the point - unless there is an indication that he's hanging out with neo-Nazis, the Jewish religion/culture was probably just the handy target - he could have just as easily picked gay people, women, hispanic people, disabled people, etc. It's the mindset behind it that needs addressing, as opposed to this specific use of this specific word - unless, as I said, there's an indication that he actually has a specific prejudice against Jewish people.

It isn't comparing what he did to genocide, it's to give him perspective, help him see the history behind using langage in that way.

I agree though that the bigger picture of discriminatory language in general needs to be addressed. But this is what he specifically said and it's an entry point to that discussion. "Talking to people in that way hurts, and here's an example of why."


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
It isn't comparing what he did to genocide, it's to give him perspective, help him see the history behind using langage in that way.
."

Yes. I just think if he knows where these words came from, he'd understand that they aren't appropriate.

When I was five, a friend taught me "Eenie meanie Miney Moe.. catch a N**** by his toe." I tried to teach it to my mom.... cuz it was such a catchy little rhyme. My mom slapped my mouth before I finished it! I couldn't believe it! That was back in 1967. Back when I was cute! What the heck??? I had NO idea what the word N**** meant.

A little history lesson would have been enough. I doubt I would have ever said it again.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
It isn't comparing what he did to genocide, it's to give him perspective, help him see the history behind using langage in that way.


I wasn't saying anyone would be comparing it to genocide - I just meant that I could see a teenage boy internally giving a big







and thinking "Yeah, my mom thinks I'm Hitler, whatever."


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
Also, slightly OT, but is the word 'Jew" in itself considered offensive? I thought it was the same as saying christian, or Hindu?

I'm sure this was a typo, but if you're going to capitalize Jew and Hindu, then you should also capitalize Christian. [/being anal]

OP... By 14 (8th grade?), they have likely studied the Holocaust on some level (my kids did in 7th). I find it hard to believe that, if they did in his school, he didn't know that what he was saying was beyond the pale. In that case, I would be more inclined to punish than if they hadn't. And if they hadn't, it would be time for some research and reading.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Honestly I think I'd approach this in a different way. First off, simply referring to a Jewish person as a Jew is not offensive afaik. It's a legitimate term used to describe people of a certain faith. Calling a person _any_ name in a hurtful way is an issue, but I see that as a bit separate than getting after him for using the word "Jew". That he used the word as an insult is an issue, and one that should be addressed as well, but if that's all you do then I think the message is one that being a Jew is a potentially bad thing in itself - kind of like the "n word" in the previous example. I'd certainly have a nice discussion about name calling and using race and religion as a basis for insults as being particularly bad, but I'd also go further than that. Look up what the Jewish religion is about. Not necessarily have him write a 10 page essay on it or anything, but just a good, overall description. The next thing I'd do though would be to research Jewish people who have made a difference in the world, from comedians and actors to scientists, mathematicians and bankers. Let him see firsthand that being Jewish or referred to as a Jew isn't a blanket insult the way the n word is for black people, and indeed is a postive thing for many people.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
I'm sure this was a typo, but if you're going to capitalize Jew and Hindu, then you should also capitalize Christian. [/being anall

you are absolutely right. thank you for pointing it out. I will edit my post, and I assure it is just one of many, many, many typos I've made on this board.

(but I should be more careful)


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
First off, simply referring to a Jewish person as a Jew is not offensive afaik. It's a legitimate term used to describe people of a certain faith.


Actually, no. It is often used as a slur by tossing it out just like it was described in the OP.

Many Jewish people prefer not to use it for that reason. Someone is "Jewish" not "a jew," because there is a long history of using it as an attack, either alone or with other words (like, in the OP, "stupid."). Neonazi groups have a history of using it not as a simple descriptor but as a slur.

I'm trying to think of examples that will illustrate how it has been twisted to the point that it is not really the same as Christian or Hindu or Muslim, and I can only think of some not-quite the same ones.

Think about "Communist." It just means "someone who believes in the teachings of Karl Marx," right? But if someone on the street calls you a "Filthy Commie," its not the same as calling you a Republican or Whig, right?

Or think about "Hippy." Peace, love, rainbows and VW buses, right? The equivalent of "preppy," really. Now hear someone saying "Sheesh, what a bunch of stupid hippies." Slur.

Neither of these examples capture, really, the gist of it. But the gist is that becuase of history, you cannot say "Jew" is entirely parallel to "Christian" or "Hindu" or "Zoroastrian." It's just not the same.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

My son will be 14 next month.

I don't understand from your posts what your son did. At first you said he used the word "stupid" but now you said he didn't say "stupid". I can't tell who used the word "Jew" first...him, or the girl, or whether she was kicking him (and if so, was she kicking to be funny, or angrily kicking?). At any rate you might want to change the title of the thread if your son did not, in fact, use the word 'stupid', because that really changes the tone of what happened.

Before I did *anything* in terms of discipline, I would find out what happened. Most kids won't tell you what happened if you are putting them in the hot seat. You need to let emotions calm down, sleep on it, then revisit the issue when you are both clear headed.

Now, if it turns out that what happened was that this girl, and your son, developed a consensual 'banter' back and forth that was crude or insensitive, but nonetheless mutally created (meaning she and he were both tossing around the word "Jew" and thinking it was funny) , then I'd focus on how and why that blew up in his face.

One of the really tough lessons for a teenager to internalize is the concept of 'staying true to your values' when the activity going on is totally consensual. What I mean by that is that you could count on your son to refuse to join in, say, punching a girl or kicking a dog--even if someone else did it trying to be funny. However if a person initiates a consensual conversation, giving him tacit permission to use a word he wouldn't otherwise use, then the lesson you want him to learn is a subtle one. Even if this girl was 100% comfortable with the conversation, and your son was only following her lead, his behavior looked bad to other people. Even if she was okay with using the world "Jew" as a joke, others are _not_ okay with it. And even if the girl is okay with it, and nobody can hear them talk, he needs to think about why it still is a mistake to use a racial slur as a joke in this way. That is tough for a 14 year old to remember. But that is the lesson I would focus on him learning. Focusing only on educating him about Jewish history and Jewish faith is of course important so that he has a firm foundation for his own choices. But the broader focus that I think will help him is talking about how we as individuals regulate our behavior regardless of peer decisions.

I would not 'punish' a 14 year old for the situaton I am guessing happened here--unless you consider conversations and education a punishment, which I do not.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"Now, if it turns out that what happened was that this girl, and your son, developed a consensual 'banter' back and forth that was crude or insensitive, but nonetheless mutually created (meaning she and he were both tossing around the word "Jew" and thinking it was funny) , then I'd focus on how and why that blew up in his face."

I would really try to get to the bottom of this aspect. Sure, your son SAYS this is how it all played out. I would want to hear from the girl, and her parents, about this. Because a) your son is not being honest and there's a Jewish family out there that deserves an apology directly from him, and from you as the adult responsible for instructing him on the boundaries of acceptable human behavior, or b) there's a family out there who has a daughter whose own behavior at school is wildly unacceptable, and they need to hear about it.

I'm Jewish, and my 6 y.o. has announced loudly in several public venues that he "doesn't like brown people," so believe me I feel your pain and shame. I hope it turns out that your son and this girl where engaged in a well-trodden South Park-style interaction, and that the big lesson you need to teach here is one of good taste and self-editing.

But if that's not the case, then honestly, after I had dragged him over to the girl's house to apologize in person to her family, I think I'd drag him into the rabbi's office for stern interview. If your son has verbally assaulted somebody for being Jewish, he needs to feel some extreme and drawn-out anguish as a consequence - because he needs to _break this habit_ before it lands him in even more serious trouble. I think you'll find that if you ASK for help from the Jewish community (the family, the rabbi) in adjusting your son's attitude, you will get it. The world doesn't need another adult Jew-hater. Childhood is the time to fix this stuff.

You just need some more information. IMO, it matters hugely whether this was tasteless banter between friends, or a gentile kid attacking a Jewish kid with an anti-Semitic remark. You need to interface with the other set of parents and find out what story THEIR kid told.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I haven't read the replies so someone might have mentioned this, but has you child ever watched South Park, or does he have friends who do? In that show there is an evil anti-semite who is constantly spewing bigoted language. In fact, this hateful kid's anti-semitism is a huge part of the show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cartman


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

IMO, you needed to know the entire picture. I would find out if the girl kicked him first.

1. If the girl was kicking him. What is the school going to do to stop that? Why is it ok for her to kick him?

2. I wondered if he knows this girl (girls) can get away with being physically abusive and he did what he could to stop and protect him. -- What would have happen if he had hit her?

What would have happen if he was kicking the girl and she called him a slur?

There is a huge double standard on what a boy has to "take" and a girl does. So I think this needs to be brought to the attention to the school. She has no right kicking your son.

I think I would work on ways to empower my son to protect himself. IMO, Your son might have said it more out of trying to stop being kicked, than hate. It doesn't make it right but your son could have been in a bad situation and he did something stupid to gain control (stop being kicked).

I would address that issue then I would work on ways to handle it properly.

I would also ask him to think about, and later discuss why stupid Jew is wrong. Dealing with 14 year olds -- he didn't think before he spoke.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
Before I did *anything* in terms of discipline, I would find out what happened. Most kids won't tell you what happened if you are putting them in the hot seat. You need to let emotions calm down, sleep on it, then revisit the issue when you are both clear headed.

Now, if it turns out that what happened was that this girl, and your son, developed a consensual 'banter' back and forth that was crude or insensitive, but nonetheless mutally created (meaning she and he were both tossing around the word "Jew" and thinking it was funny) , then I'd focus on how and why that blew up in his face.

One of the really tough lessons for a teenager to internalize is the concept of 'staying true to your values' when the activity going on is totally consensual. What I mean by that is that you could count on your son to refuse to join in, say, punching a girl or kicking a dog--even if someone else did it trying to be funny. However if a person initiates a consensual conversation, giving him tacit permission to use a word he wouldn't otherwise use, then the lesson you want him to learn is a subtle one. Even if this girl was 100% comfortable with the conversation, and your son was only following her lead, his behavior looked bad to other people. Even if she was okay with using the world "Jew" as a joke, others are _not_ okay with it. And even if the girl is okay with it, and nobody can hear them talk, he needs to think about why it still is a mistake to use a racial slur as a joke in this way. That is tough for a 14 year old to remember. But that is the lesson I would focus on him learning. Focusing only on educating him about Jewish history and Jewish faith is of course important so that he has a firm foundation for his own choices. But the broader focus that I think will help him is talking about how we as individuals regulate our behavior regardless of peer decisions.

I would not 'punish' a 14 year old for the situaton I am guessing happened here--unless you consider conversations and education a punishment, which I do not.

This seems very wise. Just throwing my 2 cents in, as I have no perspective from which to offer advice.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Huh. This whole idea of the word "Jew" being offensive and one Jews don't like to use? Does. Not. Compute.

I am a Jew. I am happy to be described as a Jew or to call myself one. I use "We're Jews." and "We're Jewish" interchangeably. It is no more an insult to call Ruth Bader Ginsberg a Jew than it is to call Sister Prejean a Christian or my friend, Fatima, a Muslim.

Now, using "Jew" as an insult is different story. That's not right. And that is where the OP needs to focus, in educating her son. But the attitude that the word "Jew" in itself is bad or dirty - that's really wrong and is conveying a very misguided impression to this boy.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Please find out the whole story.

I still feel bad for calling my best friend <insert derogatory name for Italian person> in class and horrifying our teacher. But the fact is, that was his preferred nickname in our close group. And, while I understood it was somehow related to his Italian heritage, I actually didn't know it was a derogative term. I'd never heard anyone use it in a negative way. Yes, I was extremely sheltered and naive.

Poor guy was trying to calm down the teacher "Aw, Mr. E....she meant it as a term of endearment!"







That one embarrassing incident was enough for me to learn _very quickly_ how loaded that term is.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Actually, no. It is often used as a slur by tossing it out just like it was described in the OP.

Many Jewish people prefer not to use it for that reason. Someone is "Jewish" not "a jew," because there is a long history of using it as an attack, either alone or with other words (like, in the OP, "stupid."). Neonazi groups have a history of using it not as a simple descriptor but as a slur.

I'm trying to think of examples that will illustrate how it has been twisted to the point that it is not really the same as Christian or Hindu or Muslim, and I can only think of some not-quite the same ones.

Think about "Communist." It just means "someone who believes in the teachings of Karl Marx," right? But if someone on the street calls you a "Filthy Commie," its not the same as calling you a Republican or Whig, right?

Or think about "Hippy." Peace, love, rainbows and VW buses, right? The equivalent of "preppy," really. Now hear someone saying "Sheesh, what a bunch of stupid hippies." Slur.

Neither of these examples capture, really, the gist of it. But the gist is that becuase of history, you cannot say "Jew" is entirely parallel to "Christian" or "Hindu" or "Zoroastrian." It's just not the same.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make a lot of sense. If someone is a hippie, then the simple identifyer of that is not offensive. It's the added insult that makes it offensive. Our family follows Asatru. First off that means we're Pagan, second off though, a very common term for our faith is a "Heathen". Believe me, I totally get the idea of a word being used frequently as a slur. How often have you heard the term "godless heathen"? (Which is ironic really, as we actually have several gods we worship!) Or just wild kids running around referred to as heathens? But that does not negate the fact that being referred to as a "heathen" is a perfectly acceptable term and not an insult, implied or otherwise.

I would never assume that a group of individuals were insulted or offended by a legitimate identifier without confirming it first, and I wouldn't presume to speak for another group of people. In the case of the word "Jew", there was a discussion about a year ago iirc, on this board I'm thinking, as to if that term was offensive and the overwhelming response by those who were Jewish and not Jewish, was that it was not. I personally think that it's dangerous to start treating an identifier as a "bad word", as then it soon becomes a bad word. I saw that just a few years ago with the word midget, when the Little People of America made a stink about it. Funny, for a long time I was classified in that group, as are many of my friends, and to this day we don't get offended by it - yet one group made that decision for everyone and now it's an "offensive term", just like that.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I haven't read the replies yet. My son once called a handicapped and deformed child "frankenkid." I was horrified. When I found out about it, we had a long talk about special needs, feelings of people, especially disabled people. I talked to him about how much his mother loves him and how she's probably just grateful that he's alive and able to go to the park and to have someone say something so mean to him would hurt her so much. How much I love him and how I would love him and what I would want for him if he were disabled. He also wrote a letter to the boy (never to be sent of course) about how sorry he was. I think he really got how powerful and hurtful his words were.

If I were you, I'd get him some information about the Jewish faith, what it means and why Jewish are so persecuted. I might go into the haulocaust a little, but it wouldn't be the focus. I'd focus on just making Judaism more known to him. Where would he even hear that anyway?


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I don't have teenagers yet, but I would be as appalled as you are. But the way you describe it, I don't think it was intentionally anti-semitic. I would put it in the same category with other ignorantly hurtful things people say like calling each other "retard" or "gay". It's not said with forethought, it's just "something people say". I would focus on the power of language to hurt, to marginalize and shape opinions.
If she were Jewish, and this was said to specifically target and hurt her, I think I would handle it differently. But teenagers tend to say things without thinking about the larger implications. He needs a lesson in larger implications!


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## yokosmile (Apr 22, 2007)

He most likely picked up the insult from South Park. That was my first thought. It was a crappy thing, but he's a teenage boy and he made a mistake. I'm sure he'll grow into a fine young man, totally not racist. I'd just explain to him (calmly and without hysteria) why such a remark is harmful. Definitely can't imagine making him write an essay. That is not a natural consequence.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hopefulfaith* 
I'm at a loss, because my first reaction is "I wouldn't be gentle about it." -- I come down very emphatically and vehemently with people of any age who demonstrate attitudes of bigotry/intolerance toward people of different religions, races, etc.

I understand that kids do/say things that they have been raised not to do and say -- I've told my children a thousand and one times not to push each other, for instance, and it still hasn't taken.









However, a comment like this needs to be understood by a child that it will not be tolerated in any uncertain terms, under any conditions. I would take punitive actions - PS2 away, privileges lost, etc. -- and preventative actions: why would he say that? What does he understand Judaism to be? He needs to understand that using a religious term to insult someone is absolutely verboten and will not be tolerated. In my opinion, there are absolutes in the world and this is one of them.

Good luck, mama.









This.


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## Lasater (Jan 27, 2008)

Does your son watch South Park? I ask because that is a term that it is frequently used between the characters on that show. And no, I do not watch South Park.









Has this topic ever been a problem before? Have you ever had to talk to him about different religions and why you should not voice hatred towards anyone for their religious beliefs?

In my opinion, this is a case where kids/teens talk differently, joke differently, and do not have the same respect and maturity that adults do. _(Example: The adults involved are shocked and appalled - his friends laughed)_ That is why we adults/parents are supposed to teach them what is acceptable, unacceptable, and taboo.

I would not shame or punish your son. I think your point can be made pretty easily in fact.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I don't have teenagers yet... but one thing that occured to me would be having him call up the girl (and her parents) and apologize. Even better would be to make him go to their house and say it in person (because it would be humbling.)

I think you've gotten a lot of good ideas from PPs.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"There is a huge double standard on what a boy has to "take" and a girl does. So I think this needs to be brought to the attention to the school. She has no right kicking your son."

I think that when a child does something unequivocally wrong and gets called on it, the absolute LAST thing you want to tolerate (let alone advocate!) is whining about "the other kid" who committed some other infraction on the same timeframe and got away with it.

Teach him how to deflect irritating behaviors more acceptably in future? Sure. Take the focus off his own bad judgment and set an example of blame-shifting and buck-passing by going to the school and attempting to get the girl in trouble? Nu-uh. If the OP wants to involve the girl, which I think is a good idea, she should go directly to that set of parents and get to the bottom of all of this, and all parents involved can draw the line that leaves South Park banter waaaaay outside the boundaries of school.


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## Tummy (Feb 24, 2005)

WOW, so many replies and opinions on this subject.

Thank you to everyone!

The S.P. issue, yes, he has watched it. Perhaps that *is* where it came from. Dude (my son) had a long talk with dad, it was a good talk!

I do not believe that he meant anything insulting by his words. He said he missed 2 periods over this being brought to administration. He was sent from Prin office to the guidance counselor because of how upset HE was over this. He is not a very open child (a cancer) and I have not gotten out of him exactly why he was physically sick over this. He was truly upset though. I know it was NOT because of getting in trouble and Saturday school, not the first Sat school he will have attended! UGH! I am going to get in contact with the school on Monday morning and get an apt with the guidance myself to see what she has to say!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
"There is a huge double standard on what a boy has to "take" and a girl does. So I think this needs to be brought to the attention to the school. She has no right kicking your son."

I think that when a child does something unequivocally wrong and gets called on it, the absolute LAST thing you want to tolerate (let alone advocate!) is whining about "the other kid" who committed some other infraction on the same timeframe and got away with it.

Teach him how to deflect irritating behaviors more acceptably in future? Sure. Take the focus off his own bad judgment and set an example of blame-shifting and buck-passing by going to the school and attempting to get the girl in trouble? Nu-uh. If the OP wants to involve the girl, which I think is a good idea, she should go directly to that set of parents and get to the bottom of all of this, and all parents involved can draw the line that leaves South Park banter waaaaay outside the boundaries of school.

Maybe I am coming from being bullied point of view, and why I think it needs to be brought up. Especially when it comes to physical violence.

What if it was her getting in trouble for kicking, and him not calling her a bad name?

Maybe, I come from having the son that got in trouble because the girl wasn't being held just as responsible. -- it came to a head when she got up and kissed him in class, he had to sit out for recess and she didn't. It was some how his fault, even though his butt was in the chair the entire time.

Maybe, it comes from seeing a boy punished for my girls miss deeds. Then not apologize when I was able to try to correct the situation. I saw my child misdeed.

Would I bring up the situation (if it was) in front of my child, NOPE!! But I would ask for fairness.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
Also, slightly OT, but is the word 'Jew" in itself considered offensive? I thought it was the same as saying Christian, or Hindu?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Actually, no. It is often used as a slur by tossing it out just like it was described in the OP.

Many Jewish people prefer not to use it for that reason. Someone is "Jewish" not "a jew," because there is a long history of using it as an attack, either alone or with other words (like, in the OP, "stupid."). Neonazi groups have a history of using it not as a simple descriptor but as a slur.

I'm trying to think of examples that will illustrate how it has been twisted to the point that it is not really the same as Christian or Hindu or Muslim, and I can only think of some not-quite the same ones.

Neither of these examples capture, really, the gist of it. But the gist is that becuase of history, you cannot say "Jew" is entirely parallel to "Christian" or "Hindu" or "Zoroastrian." It's just not the same.

Well, as a Jew, I have to say that I disagree strongly with the second post I quoted. I see nothing wrong with the word "Jew," in and of itself. That's what I am. "Jewish" is an adjective, not a noun. I don't know any Jews who object to the use of the term, per se, and it is used in all kinds of situations, including in synagogue. I really don't think that my rabbi is using a slur when he tells the story of how the Jews escaped from Egypt or talks about what it means to
be a Jew in contemporary America.

Of course, it CAN be used in as a slur, but the negative connotation isn't simply the "default." In fact, I have to say that I find offensive the idea that the word "Jew" is, in and of itself, offensive.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Of course, it CAN be used in as a slur, but the negative connotation isn't simply the "default." In fact, I have to say that I find offensive the idea that the word "Jew" is, in and of itself, offensive.

I'm sorry you found it offensive. I have known many Jews/Jewish people/whatever who did strongly prefer "Jewish" to "A Jew." And I don't know of anyone who would just say, in regard to the OP, that it was *not* a problem that the child tossed out "Stupid Jew" at another child.

The fact remains, that you can't just blithely say, as others above have done, that "Jew" is exactly the same as "Christian" or "Hindu." It just isn't, because there's too much history of people using it as a slur where the others have not been used as such. The OP describes someone using it as a noun and a slur, and this needs to be addressed, not excused because its just like calling someone "A stupid Christian." The two are not the same.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
I'm sorry you found it offensive. I have known many Jews/Jewish people/whatever who did strongly prefer "Jewish" to "A Jew." And I don't know of anyone who would just say, in regard to the OP, that it was *not* a problem that the child tossed out "Stupid Jew" at another child..

I was absolutely not suggesting that calling someone a "stupid Jew" was not a slur. If the word was used as suggested in the OP, it was absolutely hate speech. I was merely pointing out that neither I nor, to my knowledge, any of the many, many Jews I'm related to and know consider the word Jew IN AND OF ITSELF to be offensive.

Being a member of the LGBT community, I often use that word "queer," as do many other LGBT people--in a positive and affirming way. That doesn't mean I don't realize that "queer" can be use a slur.


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