# WWYD...Head LICE!!! And Social Issues



## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Sooo...We got a lovely surprise yesterday morning. My 5 Yo (who is home schooled) has been itching his head a lot the last few days. We thought maybe he just got really sweaty and so we washed his hair the first day...well today he was itching again so I looked in his hair and OMG he was INFESTED with LICE





















:

He has been playing with the kids next door a bunch lately, so we went over there to let them know that DS has lice. They were not surprised at all...they said that their kids have had it for a while...they have been battling it...and that they had been thinking about telling us...







:
He has been playing at their house and they have been playing over here.







:

We are dropping everything else and getting rid of the lice. DH is taking the day off so that we can deal with this appropriatly.

We really want DS to be able to play with the neighbor kids...they are great and their parents are really nice. but we can't keep getting lice and it seems like they are not able to get rid of the lice. I would love to help them resolve the problem but I can't think of how I could do that tactfully.
I just don;t know what to do...hoping some of you have BTDB with the lice thing and can offer some advice for how to deal with the neighbor kids.
I am so frustrated because the family is really great and our kids LOVE playing together.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Buy a good lice comb. When he comes home, comb his hair out. If one gets in you will get it out right away. Lice go around all the time here and it's really not the big deal it seems to be in the states. I just comb, comb, comb until they are gone.

HTH


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Holy carp! I cannot believe they let your ds come over when they had lice.

There are a lot of treatments you can use for him. First though, check everyone else in your house. It's likely that he's not the only one with them.

Then go get a good lice comb to use. When my kids had lice (given to us by a "friend") we covered their heads in olive oil and combed until every nit was out. Get a shampoo that has tea tree oil in it, like Jason, or just wash their hair with tea tree oil.

You'll need to wash everything in hot water, blankets, sheets, towels, clothes, etc until all of the lice are gone.

With the boys, we shaved their heads. Dd had them for longer, probably because we wouldn't cut her hair off.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

Once you figure out how you have gotten rid of them, share how you did it with them. Maybe even offer them the left over product you have.

A neem oil mixture is suppose to work really well. It's totally safe also, you should check it out.


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## ~savah~ (Aug 24, 2008)

I just think that is rude not to let you know that they had lice. I know that lice are becoming immune to chemicals and they are harder to get rid of (I just read an article about it), but that is no excuse not to let you know. I would do as the pp said and share with them how to get rid of it, until then if you let you child go over there you will just be passing them back and forth.


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## EllasMummy (Dec 10, 2003)

My DD had lice a couple of months ago. She caught them at preschool.
I treated her hair and combed, combed, combed for hours but we had a really hard time getting rid of them.

DD's wonderful preschool teacher told me to make sure that all the eggs have gone as well as all the lice. The eggs do not all come off with the comb. So I sat for about 1hr 30mins with DD picking by hand all the teeny tiny eggs out of her hair. The lice have not returned.
DD was not keen on this but we put her favourite DVD on and I was very gentle.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

We've had them three times.

We found olive oil most easy and effective -- working it though our hair and using the nit-comb, then coating our hair really good with the oil, then tying plastic bags on our heads for a few hours (four I think) before we rinsed it out, and then repeating this eight days later.

I washed our pillow-cases every day during this time, and that was it. Well, the first time I washed all our bedding daily, too -- but a friend told me the lice really don't get that far away from a warm head, so washing the pillow-cases should suffice. And it did. We haven't had lice for 3 years now.

The first time, we coated our hair with Vaseline for 8 days straight -- but that's a bit extreme, and it's super hard to get back out of your hair. Now I'd just do the olive-oil and nit-comb treatment, rinse, and repeat 8 days later. And just go on about our lives as usual.

I sure wouldn't end a friendship over it. When my oldest played frequently with girls from a family that seemed to "always" have lice, I started using tea-tree oil. Another friend whose girls were always getting lice, just started keeping their hair coated with olive oil. We're out-of-touch with them now (our friends who "always/often" had lice), so I haven't used the oil, but am just quick to check for bugs if anyone's scratching her head.

I wouldn't be so angry about them not saying anything (though they should have). Some people really do freak if they know you've "ever" had lice. A while back, my mom called in a frenzy because her cat had lice, and she had it, too. I told her if the cat had it it was most likely fleas, since cats don't get lice.

But she and my brother (who lives with her) were just sure it was lice, and even though I told her we hadn't had it for a long time, Mom didn't seem to believe me. Since we'd let the family know when we had it before, we were "branded" for life, I guess.

My sister's girls both had it back when they were kids -- but they didn't get branded in the same way, I guess because they used the Rid and didn't "fool around" with homeopathic remedies. Since everyone knew I was using Vaseline (the first time ... we didn't even discuss it with family the other times), and my sister checked with her doctor who said she'd never heard of Vaseline as a treatment, I guess they were just sure we never really got rid of it.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks for all of the replies!

We are well under way with our treatment...we used a product called Lice Freee that came with a really good comb. DS has really curly long hair...it is almost an afro...so combing through has been no fun.

Today we put a Mayonnaise and Tee Tree oil combo on his head, wrapped it in plastic wrap for a couple hours, and now we are back to combing again. We bought him a new Wii game and Grandma has been playing it with him while I comb and comb. It seems that there is no end to the nits.
We also Ironed our mattresses (the heat is supposed to destroy bugs)and replaced our pillows. We are lucky that DS #1 is the only one who has it.

I understand why the neighbors didn't tell us but I do feel like it is really selfish of them. They are also sending all of the kids to school etc so who knows HOW many other families will get infected. They told me that over the counter lice remedies don't work. I am thinking that they are not getting all of the eggs out of their house.

I don't want the friendship to end over this but it does seem like a deal breaker if they can't get it under control. I can't have kids with lice playing in my home, yk? We will just keep on getting it. The whole thing is frustrating! I can't understand how you just let your kids have lice??









.


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## Shaki (Mar 15, 2006)

We got lice several times when I was a kid. My sister went to a fancy private school and many of the parents refused to believe that their children could have lice so it just kept going around the school. My sister still refers to her school as a "lice trap!" So as an experienced lice sufferer may I offer the following advice: OP, don't just treat your DS everyone in your family may have it and if you don't all treat it you'll start giving it back and forth to each other. Also you'd be wise to tell anyone who has been in your house or spends time with your DS as they could have it too. The best way to prevent it from coming back is to make sure every one who could have been exposed treats themselves and cleans their house. In addition to our bedding we also used to clean the tops and backs of any furniture that was covered in fabric. Or put clean towels over the furniture for a few days.

Lice is a bummer! Sorry you're going through this.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

I would definitely speak up and say "I prefer to know when your kids are sick or have lice in the future. I'll do the same for you guys."


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## jellop (Dec 11, 2006)

If your neighbors complaint is that the over the counter remedies are not working, maybe share your alternative ideas that work (mayonnaise, olive oil, even baby oil). How many children do they have? Maybe offer to help (it's got to be hard for a mom to comb all the lice out of her hair - never mind how embarrassing dealing with headlice can be, ykwim?). Do a 'de-licing ' party. _Help_ them get a handle on it. Then it helps BOTH of your households solve a problem and continues a friendship.

And, definitely, add tea tree oil to your shampoo, and suggest they do the same.

Sorry, it sucks, and I'm sorry that they're not handling themselves well.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I'd just be up-front with them -- say something like, "The kids are excited to play again, but it'll have to wait until this lice thing is under control because they were a big pain to get rid of. I came across some tips that seemed to work pretty well -- do you want me to pass them on to you?"

Although it was rude of them not to inform you about the lice in the first place, it doesn't have to be an uncomfortable situation at this point -- just approach it from the standpoint of working together to solve the problem.


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## LookMommy! (Jun 16, 2002)

Baseball caps or bandanas.







There is no reason to end a friendship!









Lisa


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I have to say, I'm shocked at how many people don't routinely check their children's heads for lice. Almost every single parent I know over here wetcombs at least once a week- we do the boys every two days now, Skye every single day. By breaking their legs, it eliminates the possibility of the little blighters breeding. It's not a perfect solution, but prevention is way better than cure.
OP, given that your child's head is crawling with them, the chances are just as good that your kid passed it to the neighbouring family and picked it up at homeschooling group. Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know? Certainly the chances are that the reason the family next door couldn't clear them is because your kid kept reinfecting them.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I have to say, I'm shocked at how many people don't routinely check their children's heads for lice. Almost every single parent I know over here wetcombs at least once a week- we do the boys every two days now, Skye every single day. *By breaking their legs, it eliminates the possibility of the little blighters breeding.* It's not a perfect solution, but prevention is way better than cure.
OP, given that your child's head is crawling with them, the chances are just as good that your kid passed it to the neighbouring family and picked it up at homeschooling group. Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know? Certainly the chances are that the reason the family next door couldn't clear them is because your kid kept reinfecting them.

Can you explain the bit I bolded?


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I have to say, I'm shocked at how many people don't routinely check their children's heads for lice.

Well, I never check because ds has never had them. I know I'd notice pretty quick since ds is always climbing on my lap and his head is in my face half the day. My only personal experience with lice is my sister had them once (one out of seven kids in our family). I occasionally check for ticks, though.









I certainly wouldn't end the relationship if I had a great family next door. The neighbor would probably appreciate some help and suggestions, politely offered. I imagine it's hard dealing with delicing multiple kids, washing all the bedding, throw pillows, and what not,


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## dancingmama (Dec 18, 2001)

ROBI COMB!!!!!

Seriously, check it out. Greatest thing ever, and it totally works. It's a battery-operated comb that zaps the bugs and kills them. You use it daily for about 10 days, to get the nymphs as soon as they hatch. If your kids are over at the neighbors, you can literally run the robi comb through their hair before they come inside and zap anything that climbed in there. It is really diagnostic, too, cuz you can't find every little bug with your eyes (and so it's easy to miss lice early on), but the robi comb will find it even if you have just one bug.

best thing since sliced bread, seriously.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingmama* 
ROBI COMB!!!!!

Seriously, check it out. Greatest thing ever, and it totally works. It's a battery-operated comb that zaps the bugs and kills them. You use it daily for about 10 days, to get the nymphs as soon as they hatch. If your kids are over at the neighbors, you can literally run the robi comb through their hair before they come inside and zap anything that climbed in there. It is really diagnostic, too, cuz you can't find every little bug with your eyes (and so it's easy to miss lice early on), but the robi comb will find it even if you have just one bug.

best thing since sliced bread, seriously.

That looks awesome! I went to a site to check it out, and to get a general idea of the price so that next time we have some extra cash we can buy one to keep on hand (it's not something you want to wait a few days on when your child actually has lice!) - but I can't make much sense of whether the $1.40-something is just explaining that that's how many U.S. dollars equal $1.00 British currency -- or if that's the actual cost of the product?

It would seem that something so wonderful must cost more than one-and-a-half American dollars, you know! Is anyone able to make sense of the pricing -- just so we have an idea and can keep it in mind?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know?

^A big Yeah That!


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## dancingmama (Dec 18, 2001)

http://www.liceguard.com/robicomb.aspx

It's on sale here for $29.95 US. I agree, a great thing to just have on hand especially with school-aged kids.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Thanks for letting me know about the price! I definitely want to get one as soon as we can. I'm glad someone has come up with this product!

And, again, I agree with flapjack that lice are so common now, it's better to just keep an eye on our kids' hair. While people "should" let you know if they're dealing with lice (and I've called parents of children my oldest had just played with, when we've discovered that she had lice in the past), I can fully understand how a parent could just be on overload, and not feel like telling people.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Comb, comb, comb. If you get the varmints off before night falls you will get them before they hunker down to lay eggs.

Keep their hair up or plaited or as a pp said wear a bandana or cap then comb their hair as soon as they come back home.

You can pick out the eggs if you like or just comb a lot to comb out the tiny hatchlings as they pop.

Shaving hair to less than 2cm is also good because they can't survive very close to the scalp as it is too warm and they won't lay eggs there either.

If your child's head is crawling with varmints of all sizes then it is likely that he has had them for a while. Thick or curly hair is what we call a 5 star hotel for lice and my my boys were real holiday destinations when they were younger. Dd on the other hand has very fine hair and if she ever has a nit I can see it!

I would shake out bedding but I don't think a boil wash for everything is necessary. We have experimented with lice and found that if you leave them on a piece of tissue in a jar they don't live for more than a day. Eggs don't hatch off the head either as far as we could see.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I have to say, I'm shocked at how many people don't routinely check their children's heads for lice. Almost every single parent I know over here wetcombs at least once a week- we do the boys every two days now, Skye every single day. By breaking their legs, it eliminates the possibility of the little blighters breeding. It's not a perfect solution, but prevention is way better than cure.
OP, given that your child's head is crawling with them, the chances are just as good that your kid passed it to the neighbouring family and picked it up at homeschooling group. Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know? Certainly the chances are that the reason the family next door couldn't clear them is because your kid kept reinfecting them.

I am not being snobby about it. I don;t think I have said anything that implies snobbishness. I just don't want to have bugs living in my kids heads!! I certainly got lice when I was a kid and I understand that anyone can get them...it is just that MOST people get RID Of them. Also, here in the States our lice are chemical resistant and very difficult to kill. We spent 2 DAYS doing nothing but delousing our child and our home. DH missed a day of work and we have spent about $30 on products. And I know that it is far from being over. WE are going to do everything again this weekend. In the meanwhile poor DS is cooped up in the house because I don't want to expose anyone else. He doesn't get to play with any of his friends.

We have been home a LOT the last month or so. No one else we know has it. The family said they have had it for a long time. I am not sure how that translates into my son giving it to them??
Yes he had a lot of them but they are gone now. Also their there are 5 PEOPLE in the other house that ALL have them, yet DS is the only person in our household who has them. He just started itching a week ago.
These kids have been playing together EVERY DAY for about 5-9 hours each day for the last 6 weeks. That is running back and forth between our houses.
WE KNOW for a FACT that it started with them and I think it is really rude to let your kids go to someone's house every day (and allow their child in your house) and never mention that you have lice.

We don;t go to homeschooling groups, we haven't been on public transportation, airplanes. movie theaters NOTHING.

I would have been checking for lice if I would have known that we were exposed to it. But since we have been home, ds isn't in school and hasn't been going around groups of children I had NO IDEA.
I didn't realize that people think it is okay to just expose others to Lice!

I am planning to try and help them by offering suggestions and help, but I am worried that these people are just kinda okay with having it. Does no one else think it's a problem that these kids are going to school with it too???
I just cannot relate to this AT ALL.

I think it is SELFISH

ETA the other way we know ds didn't have the lice very long is that we only found large adults and small eggs. We didn't find tons of babies etc...


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingmama* 
http://www.liceguard.com/robicomb.aspx

It's on sale here for $29.95 US. I agree, a great thing to just have on hand especially with school-aged kids.

That's kind of cool, but to use that every day when I can just use a tea tree, mint, or rosemary shampoo daily to repel them instead seems like a lot of trouble, yk?

We had a terrible lice problem at school, and when we switched to a tea tree and mint shampoo we never brought them home again.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
That's kind of cool, but to use that every day when I can just use a tea tree, mint, or rosemary shampoo daily to repel them instead seems like a lot of trouble, yk?

We had a terrible lice problem at school, and when we switched to a tea tree and mint shampoo we never brought them home again.

This is what we are going to do from now on.

I am thinking about the ROBI comb for weekly checks for a while. Especially until we know that the neighbors have gotten rid of it.

.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Also, here in the States our lice are chemical resistant and very difficult to kill. We spent 2 DAYS doing nothing but delousing our child and our home. DH missed a day of work and we have spent about $30 on products. And I know that it is far from being over. WE are going to do everything again this weekend. In the meanwhile poor DS is cooped up in the house because I don't want to expose anyone else. He doesn't get to play with any of his friends.









I can understand how, it being your first time and all, you might end up spending a lot of time and money treating this.

But, for future reference, it doesn't have to be such a big expenditure, and your dh doesn't have to miss a day of work or anything. We live in the States, too -- but though American lice are now chemical resistant, I haven't heard of any not dying after being smothered for 4 hours in olive oil -- sealed in with a plastic bag.

And though we used a nit-comb, that probably didn't get rid of all the nits. That's why we waited 8 days and did the olive oil again, to kill all the bugs that would have hatched from any remaining eggs (the new bugs don't mature and lay eggs 'til around 21 days). Again, washing pillow-cases sufficed for us, in that we've been lice-free for 3 years.

We didn't have money to replace pillows, and didn't do any treatment on mattresses or furniture. But now that I know about ironing killing them, that sounds like an effective and easy solution just to be extra sure. Also shaking out the bedding every morning sounds like a good idea.

Maybe one reason the olive-oil worked for us, was that we did all our hair at the same time.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I totally understand what you're saying, dubfam.

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but around here if someone gets lice, it commands the total attention of the family until the problem is taken care of -- it's not something to just live with. I'd be frustrated too if neighbors my kids played with seemed to have a blase attitude about it.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I totally understand what you're saying, dubfam.

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but around here if someone gets lice, it commands the total attention of the family until the problem is taken care of -- it's not something to just live with. I'd be frustrated too if neighbors my kids played with seemed to have a blase attitude about it.

I think it depends on what you've been through with lice.

Back, the summer after I was in 8th grade, our area got hit with a round of lice that were resistant to every chemical on the market. All the kids in the neighborhood had lice, nothing was fully killing it, and this went on for 3 months. We went through all the on-the-market shampoos, all the oil-type solutions, and finally my mom chopped off all our hair to our ears (4 girls) and resorted to using a nit comb every morning and evening to keep the lice limited in number. (Also, we went to the point of only washing our hair once a week.) We washed, steamed-cleaned, dry-cleaned the whole house. And, as I said, we weren't the only family dealing with this.

At the beginning of this all, my mom was in the "keep everyone in house" mode, but you can't sustain that for months on end.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I totally understand what you're saying, dubfam.

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but around here if someone gets lice, it commands the total attention of the family until the problem is taken care of -- it's not something to just live with. I'd be frustrated too if neighbors my kids played with seemed to have a blase attitude about it.

Well, in our case, giving it our total attention actually took care of it pretty quickly. But I've had some friends who for some reason just kept getting it. I'm not saying people "should" get a blase attitude, but maybe they've just come up against so many dead-ends trying to get rid of it in the conventional way.

To the point where they've decided they just don't have the time and energy to devote their whole life and being to lice. I think knowing some easy alternatives would help. I'm so glad I looked into homeopathic remedies when we had our first bout with lice, they're so much more effective.

Years ago, before I had my own family, I had a friend with a large family who finally said, "That shampoo is so harmful, I'm not going to just keep using it over and over." She still went through her kids' hair with nit-combs, and periodically used the shampoo, but for a while she just gave up on ever getting completely rid of it, she just tried to keep it to a minimum, if that makes sense.

I don't "condone" the blase attitude -- but I can still understand it, and have empathy for parents that are just overwhelmed.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
I think it depends on what you've been through with lice...

At the beginning of this all, my mom was in the "keep everyone in house" mode, but you can't sustain that for months on end.

So true!


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
So true!









I only have a boy child, and my reaction to lice nowadays would be "razor, please."

He spent the first two years of his life mainly bald, being bald again ain't going to harm him.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Well, in our case, giving it our total attention actually took care of it pretty quickly. But I've had some friends who for some reason just kept getting it. I'm not saying people "should" get a blase attitude, but maybe they've just come up against so many dead-ends trying to get rid of it in the conventional way.

To the point where they've decided they just don't have the time and energy to devote their whole life and being to lice. I think knowing some easy alternatives would help. I'm so glad I looked into homeopathic remedies when we had our first bout with lice, they're so much more effective.

Years ago, before I had my own family, I had a friend with a large family who finally said, "That shampoo is so harmful, I'm not going to just keep using it over and over." She still went through her kids' hair with nit-combs, and periodically used the shampoo, but for a while she just gave up on ever getting completely rid of it, she just tried to keep it to a minimum, if that makes sense.

I don't "condone" the blase attitude -- but I can still understand it, and have empathy for parents that are just overwhelmed.

I can understand not being able to get rid of it, but it isn't okay to spread it around to other people. These kids have been all over my furniture and in my house a bunch. My son is in their house a bunch. I am frustrated that they didn't tell us, and they weren't treating it. They basically set us up to get it.

Also, my neighbors have said that nothing works to get rid of them..including Mayo, Oil, TTO and lice shampoo. Many times the homeopathic stuff only works if you clean your house and get all the eggs off the infected person. Same with every lice treatment...

This is my whole point of posting this thread. I am kinds skeptical that they are going to get rid of the lice. If my son keeps playing with them he will continue to get it. I am not willing to continuously expose ourselves to lice. We got lucky this time that only DS had it. I want the kids to all play together but not if they are going to be sharing lice.


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

Have you discussed with your neighbour that lice can't live very long when not on a host?

If/when it happens in our house, I might seriously consider treating all family members and then just taking a "mini vacation" somewhere for a couple of days.

If your neighbour has tried to treat them and the family continues to be re-infected, perhaps they are not cleaning the bedding, etc. well enough. That would quickly get pretty frustrating for your neighbour - her efforts are for naught!

On the other hand, our public health officials comment that most people are over-zealous in cleaning the entire house when lice occur - that really, the effort should be devoted to the person and the bedding. So maybe it really is just that your neighbour isn't being diligent enough about treating the family members (and not that lice in the house keep reinfecting them).


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

We had them for 4 months straight. Ds and Dh didn't get them at all. Dsd and I had long hair and could not get rid of them. We tried every lice comb there was and finally got a flea comb.

We vacuumed, washed everything and put it through the dryer, and they kept coming back.

The tto and mint shampoo is what finally did it. All we did was keep using it and using the flea comb. Dsd has more hair than anyone I've ever seen, and I honestly don't think it was possible to find _every_ nit in her hair.

The tto and mint smell on her kept new ones from jumping on her at school so we never got a new infestation after we made the switch. We kept getting the monthly letter from school, but we never saw another bug.

We're going on a year now, I think, without seeing a bug, so I'd say the tto and mint is working pretty well.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Ds had them two weeks ago and after I treated it and it went away here is what I do now for him:

1. check every day, right when he comes home from school, for bugs.
2. wash with tea tree oil mixed in the shampoo
3. hair dryer EVERY night after bath, even if I didnt wash his hair(the heat kills any bugs in your hair, any live bugs, so they cant lay eggs)
4. olive oil in his hair before school, so thats its nice and greasy.

if you have a girl, keep her hair in tight braids, slicked down with olive oil. lice like fly away hair. so keep hair smooth and flat.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I've read very mixed reviews of the ROBI comb, so I don't think everyone finds it to work all that well.

I will admit that if the neighbors showed no signs of being firmly commited to getting rid of the lice, that would be the end of the friendship. No way would I be willing to have the kids get continually reinfested.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
We had them for 4 months straight. Ds and Dh didn't get them at all. Dsd and I had long hair and could not get rid of them. We tried every lice comb there was and finally got a flea comb.

We vacuumed, washed everything and put it through the dryer, and they kept coming back.

The tto and mint shampoo is what finally did it. All we did was keep using it and using the flea comb. Dsd has more hair than anyone I've ever seen, and I honestly don't think it was possible to find _every_ nit in her hair.

The tto and mint smell on her kept new ones from jumping on her at school so we never got a new infestation after we made the switch. We kept getting the monthly letter from school, but we never saw another bug.

We're going on a year now, I think, without seeing a bug, so I'd say the tto and mint is working pretty well.

Your experience is exactly what I am afraid of. That is why we spent so much time over the last few days combing and cleaning. I had a nightmare case one time when I was a kid that took weeks to get rid of no matter WHAT we did. Other times we were able to get rid of it in a week.

I am definitely doing TTO in our shampoo from now on.


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## pillywiggins (Aug 14, 2008)

I thought I would chime in too. My DD had lice as of this weekend. Yesterday we bought a non toxic lice treatment with tea tree and peppermint. We put that on, combed and combed, rinsed with apple cider vinegar (detaches the glue) and as of now she is lice free.
They also suggested to dab a couple drops of tea tree behind their ears before they go to school.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
I've read very mixed reviews of the ROBI comb, so I don't think everyone finds it to work all that well.

I will admit that if the neighbors showed no signs of being firmly commited to getting rid of the lice, that would be the end of the friendship. No way would I be willing to have the kids get continually reinfested.


I haven't read any mixed reviews about the nitty gritty comb (no batteries or anything) so I ordered one today from ebay. We shall see.
Tea tree oil works for us as well. But I would like to really get in there with a good comb after baths and showers for a while. It will help me keep an eye on what's going on and it sounds like this comb is very effective at removing lice and nits without totally ripping out the hair during the process.
Also white vinegar works for loosening the nits! It really really works.


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

My kids have never had lice, but my brothers and i did twice as kids. My dad always used the chemial treatments for hair, so IDk about the olive oil/tree tea, etc... but should i ever need to - i'll be keeping it in mind!

What we did for "stuff" was to hot water wash anything we use on a regular basis (clothing, bedding).. vacuum stuff you can't wash (ie couch), and bag items that aren't being used/cant be washed (ie stuffed toys, spare bedding). keep the items bagged for at least 2 weeks (i always did 3 or more though, esp with stffed animals, as i slept with many so we were never sure if any eggs might have passed onto them).

and good luck!


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## tree-hugger (Jul 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I'd just be up-front with them -- say something like, "The kids are excited to play again, but it'll have to wait until this lice thing is under control because they were a big pain to get rid of. I came across some tips that seemed to work pretty well -- do you want me to pass them on to you?"

Although it was rude of them not to inform you about the lice in the first place, it doesn't have to be an uncomfortable situation at this point -- just approach it from the standpoint of working together to solve the problem.









:

I wouldn't let them play til the neighbors get rid of the lice.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I am planning to try and help them by offering suggestions and help, but I am worried that these people are just kinda okay with having it. Does no one else think it's a problem that these kids are going to school with it too???
I just cannot relate to this AT ALL.

Actually, most of the health organizations are no longer recommending absence from school for head lice.


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## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

I think that by not telling you that their children had lice, letting their kids come into your home and inviting your son into their's when they knew that they had lice, that the friendship would be over. I would simply tell them that you thought that you all were friends and a true friend would never do that to friend. Their judgement can't be trusted and they wouldn't ever be welcome in my home again. I certainly wouldn't let my kids in their home.

If the kids are going to school with lice, I would call the school. Once they know about it, they won't let the kids back until all the lice and eggs are gone and will check. I guess that will encourage them to try a little harder to kill the bugs.

That may sound harsh, but my son brought lice home in kindergarten and we all got it. Anyone who does that to someone else - on purpose - is lazy at best, evil at worst. No friend of mine!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Yes nits are irritating but I think some of the posters are a little over dramatic in their response.

A louse is a parasite and totally dependent on its host. It feeds from your scalp several times a day to stay alive. It cannot jump off your head and fall on a couch, it doesn't want to fall off your head either or it will starve which is why it has grippy claws. If one were to fall off the head it is probably dead and has lived its 30 days and if one gets wrenched off the head (!) how long do you think it takes a louse to crawl off the sofa on to some part of you and up to your head? the eggs are so sticky that they don't even fall off the hair shaft when they are empty.

Seriously, I think the general reaction of such disgust because our modern society is so ultra-clean and ultra-controlled and lice are so out of control and 'like other lice' by which I presume the poster meant the sexually transmitted kind.

I am also slightly shocked that on a Natural Family Living forum people would be so ready to put these chemicals on their families heads







: I'd rather shave their hear really short than expose them to that kind of thing.

Put your revulsion in a jar and just deal with combing the kid's hair without making all sorts of judgements on the other family. Good people can have nits too you know.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:

orangefoot Yes nits are irritating but I think some of the posters are a little over dramatic in their response.

<snip>

Seriously, I think the general reaction of such disgust because our modern society is so ultra-clean and ultra-controlled and lice are so out of control and 'like other lice' by which I presume the poster meant the sexually transmitted kind.

I am also slightly shocked that on a Natural Family Living forum people would be so ready to put these chemicals on their families heads I'd rather shave their hear really short than expose them to that kind of thing.

Put your revulsion in a jar and just deal with combing the kid's hair without making all sorts of judgements on the other family. Good people can have nits too you know.
They are more than irritating. My son's head was BLEEDING from scratching it...and that was only a couple days of itching. He keeps thanking me today and saying how much better he feels without the lice. This has NOTHING to do with "revulsion" and EVERYTHING to do with my child being comfortable and healthy.

Also, I may have missed it but where did anyone advocate for using chemicals? I have seen tons of natural ideas...

Where have I judged the other family for having lice? I am upset that they didn't TELL US they had lice. big difference. Obviously I don't think that we are above getting it. Geez!!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
Actually, most of the health organizations are no longer recommending absence from school for head lice.

That is alarming. It was treated like the plague at school when I was a kid.
I wonder what changed?


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
That is alarming. It was treated like the plague at school when I was a kid.
I wonder what changed?

Schools loose federal and state funding for a student who is absent more than X days.


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## tm2840 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I wonder what changed?

Disclaimer. I'm a school admin and not a health expert! Seems to me that there are three reasons I've seen/heard mentioned for the change in lice policies.

1) Lice is not a public safety issue. Very unpleasant and annoying, but they aren't likely to land anyone in the hospital.
2) They truly *are* very unlikely to spread unless a hat, comb, pillow, etc.
3) Our schools (and therefore state health agencies) are catching up with demographics are are creating regulations that provide more support for dual-income families.

FYI - public schools must follow public policy. Private schools don't. We still have a "no nit" policy at my work-school, while our state allows kids back in school. I'm guessing we're still sending kids home with lice for the same reasons most posters were horrified at the thought of being around someone with lice. No one wants that and parents have more "say" in policy in private school settings.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

You could just only let them play outdoors together for a while. No going into each others houses. Think about it this way if you're sure your DS only got lice about a week ago then he's been around the other kids for months with out getting lice, so it's not like it was easy for him to have gotten them.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

They are also sending all of the kids to school etc so who knows HOW many other families will get infected.
That's pretty messed up too. Lice are something that you're not allowed to send kids to school with here, and I'd assume it's the same policy most places.

Quote:

Put your revulsion in a jar and just deal with combing the kid's hair without making all sorts of judgements on the other family. Good people can have nits too you know.
My kids were extremely upset when they got lice. They were 6 and 3 and freaked out about bugs on their head, upset when they couldn't make the itching, weird feeling stop. Hated having their hair combed out for the amount of time that took. For some children it's not just an inconvenience, it can be hard on them.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
You could just only let them play outdoors together for a while. No going into each others houses. Think about it this way if you're sure your DS only got lice about a week ago then he's been around the other kids for months with out getting lice, so it's not like it was easy for him to have gotten them.

He has only been playing with these kids for about 6 weeks at the most.

I think that he had lice for a couple weeks but just started itching a week ago.

Playing outside is fine for now but we live in a really rainy place so fall, winter and spring we have lots of indoor things going on.

The whole thing is so awkward "Hi kids...did your parents delouse you yet? No? Well, sorry, you can't come in today..."
I would say it nicer but I feel like that is how it will sound. And these kids are really sweet so it makes it that much harder. I don;t want to embarrass them.

Ugghhh!! Hopefully I can help them get this resolved and our kids can be playing together again soon


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
My kids were extremely upset when they got lice. They were 6 and 3 and freaked out about bugs on their head, upset when they couldn't make the itching, weird feeling stop. Hated having their hair combed out for the amount of time that took. For some children it's not just an inconvenience, it can be hard on them.

EXACTLY. We have spent HOURS combing Owen's hair and it STILL has nits in it (I am gonna do it again in a few minutes). To do it thoroughly takes several hours. This will be the 4th time...that will prob equal about 12 hours spent combing his hair in 3 days.

Poor kid









And he was FREAKING OUT about how itchy he was getting. I remember when I got it as a kid the itching would wake me up because it was so uncomfortable.

Only on MDC would my crunchiness be challenged because I don't like lice. I Love this place









.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

All I am saying is that yes, lice are irritating but in the grand scheme of things there are worse things a neighbour could deliberately expose you to and worse things your children could suffer from which cause them upset.

The nits will go and the grand varmint drama will be another family tale to tell.

I may be looking at this from a totally different place though as over here we even let our kids catch chickenpox


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
All I am saying is that yes, lice are irritating but in the grand scheme of things there are worse things a neighbour could deliberately expose you to and worse things your children could suffer from which cause them upset.

Sure, the plague and ebola come to mind.

However, a "friend" doesn't deliberately expose you to something that is annoying, and yes, disgusting.

Nobody has said these aren't "good" people, but in my book they are inconsiderate people.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Nobody has said these aren't "good" people, but in my book they are inconsiderate people.

Okay ... I do agree that they should have said something. But it seemed to me that the OP was asking where to go from here. Some are saying she should end the friendship over it, or at the very least not allow the kids to play together 'til the neighbors' kids are lice-free.

I'm not sure how long it would take to know if they're lice-free. In my book, it would be so precious to have a next-door neighbor with children close to my children's ages, who my children loved playing with, that I wouldn't be so quick to call this incident a deal-breaker.

I'd use the tea-tree-oil, and/or possibly coat my child's hair with olive-oil, and talk with my child about the increased risk of getting lice through sharing hair accessories and brushes and hats and pillows -- basically anything that goes on someone else's head ... and I wouldn't just focus on the neighbors, but talk about how _anyone_ can have lice, and it's just a good idea to take some simple precautions.

Since the OP's son was obviously traumatized by the lice, it sounds like he'll listen and take these suggestions to heart. And if he wanted to keep playing with his friends, I wouldn't stop him. I'd just do what I could to make it less likely for him to get lice, and, as others have suggested, go through his hair frequently.

Ultimately, it's up to the OP to do what she feels is best for her family and child. I don't fault her for not enjoying lice -- we didn't enjoy them either, though I wouldn't exactly say that the only things worse would be the plague or ebola (now I need to go look up ebola ...

Okay, just looked it up ... hemorrhagic fever and can cause death, huh? ... yeah, I stand by my previous assertion that there are lots of things worse than lice, that would be less severe than the plague or ebola ... i.e. tooth decay, severe teen acne, 2 hours of homework every night as young as age 12, etcetera, etcetera).


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## nancy926 (Mar 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
but though American lice are now chemical resistant

Not all of them are.

I think more than anything, consistency is the key. It takes about 7 days for an egg to hatch, and then it's another 8 days before the louse can lay more eggs. So two treatments 8 days apart, plus combing every few days (with a lice comb, not a regular comb) should get rid of them all - but you have to find them ALL. It is hard to get kids (esp those with long hair) to sit still for an hour while you comb, and if this family has a lot of kids, I could see how it would be difficult to eradicate lice. Three or four treatments is probably safer, and then some sort of preventive (tea tree products are good for that).

As for why the neighbors didn't say anything, I imagine they were embarrassed. Having lice is considered really gross by a lot of people. People link it with poor hygiene, etc., even though it has nothing to do with that.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I stand by my previous assertion that there are lots of things worse than lice, that would be less severe than the plague or ebola ... i.e. tooth decay, severe teen acne, 2 hours of homework every night as young as age 12, etcetera, etcetera).









Yes, all these and ... having parents who just let you live long-term with an infestation of parasites on your head.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Yes, all these and ... having parents who just let you live long-term with an infestation of parasites on your head.









Right -- but I don't think the OP's son has that kind of parent!


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Right -- but I don't think the OP's son has that kind of parent!










I think that if you let your kids play continually with lice-infested neighbors, what you end up with is a long-term infestation of parasites on your head.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

this is what i used

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/114/3/e275

blow drier and cetaphil face cleanser once a week for 3 weeks on all of us. not just my daugh. i didnt comb out the nits (when she got it over the holidays) and only put my bed stuff (either drier or HOT wash) and washed the combs.

i just found out about tea tree oil so i now tie my daughs hair in a ponytail and spray tto and water on her hair before she goes to school to avoid reinfestation.

to me it is pointless to spend so much of my time getting the nits. esp. since you dont have to do it. (i did have to do the next time since of the schools 'no nit' policy).

OP if ur neighbours are still struggling then i would just go to the doctor and get the prescription medicine (it works but it is expensive) and use it on everyone in the family.

the KEY with the above treatment is to do it regularly once a week (same day each week) for 3 weeks with EVERYONE in the family.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
I think that if you let your kids play continually with lice-infested neighbors, what you end up with is a long-term infestation of parasites on your head.

That didn't happen with us during our several-year friendship with another family (with several girls) who often had lice.









This mom became somewhat more laid-back about it than I was, I guess because she'd been dealing with it, almost continuously, for such a long time (not totally continuously, but pretty frequently). She was always honest about it, though. I felt that refusing to let my oldest play with these girls (or even saying we'd only play when they were lice-free) would deprive her of some wonderful friendships.

I just kept checking her head. Actually, one of the three times we got lice, it seems doubtful that we got it from that family, I really have no idea where we got it that time. But we never had anything like a "long-term infestation."

I guess it's just a matter of personal values, which each individual weighs differently. I have one friend who's decided her children can never spend the night at their friends' homes, because she let her oldest and then her oldest got lice. So no overnights.

That seems severe to me, and rather limiting for the kids -- but who am I to say what another mother should do? I didn't comment to her because she never asked for my opinion.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

This issue is hard for me. DD got lice from a neighbor last December we STILL are dealing with it. nothing works the OTC stuff doesn't the robi comb the olive oil (seriously these things swim around in the stuff all happy as can be) tea tree oil on and on. The only thing that has helped is me being absoultly villigent about combing lots of conditioner that alt least stuns them for a bit and white vinager rinses (to lossen the eggs) I'd managed to keep her bug free for many month now because I cath it RIGHT at the start before they hatch but if something happens and I dare to not check a few days they come back.. I've told neighbors our stuggle I've told parents of playmates ect but after almost a full year I have to now be carefull on how many truly know. DD school had a no not policy and I'm willing to enforce if shes activly showing an infestation but at the same time if I went by any sign she'd neer be in school and she'd never be allowed outside the house. I don't want to withhold or lie to anyone but its just getting to b a difficult situation all around. When it comes down to it while VERY VERY SUPER annoying lice are not life threatening and I do have to weight this in my overall decession.

Deanna


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
I've told neighbors our stuggle I've told parents of playmates ect but after almost a full year I have to now be carefull on how many truly know...I don't want to withhold or lie to anyone but its just getting to b a difficult situation all around. When it comes down to it while VERY VERY SUPER annoying lice are not life threatening and I do have to weight this in my overall decession.

Deanna









Deanna, Thanks for sharing! I think your story may help some understand why some parents just quit telling people.

I hope maybe you find a solution on this thread that helps!


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## Shaki (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi all, I posted on the first page of this thread. Just popping back in to say that back in the day, when my family was waging a battle against recurrent lice (when I was in high school--uh, can you say, mortifying?). My Mom finally got worried about the chemical treatments (this was in the early 80's--we didn't know from homeopathic) and we put CRISCO on our heads, topped it off with plastic bags and left it on overnight. Kinda the same principal as the olive or coconut oil treatment...smother 'em...and it worked! Deanna have you tried crisco? Maybe the flat out lard would smother those stubborn lice more than the olive oil? I don't know. Could be worth a shot.

Also what brands of tea tree oil and rosemary shampoo are people using? This thread inconjuction with DD starting pre-school is making me want to be pro-active on the lice thing.


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## medaroge (Dec 21, 2004)

Well if the parents just dont care then I dont think there is much you can do. Maybe send them some lice treatment stuff, or say "you know, we are just getting done with lice, this and this really worked well for us"


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 







Deanna, Thanks for sharing! I think your story may help some understand why some parents just quit telling people.

I hope maybe you find a solution on this thread that helps!

Oh, I Understand WHY they didn't tell me. It sure doesn't make it okay, though. I would NEVER EVER do that to someone.

These kids have been playing together EVERY DAY

They could have AT LEAST made sure the kids played OUTSIDE without EVER mentioning the lice...but NO my kid was in their house and their kids in mine EVERY DAY and they never said a word about it. That is completely inconsiderate and irresponsible. In fact, the day before we found the lice all 3 kids had gone somewhere for a sleepover. I am sure their host has a lovely parting gift

They had NO CONSIDERATION for MY family, or anyone else's families in this situation.
I understand being embarrassed...I sure was when I did the right thing and told everyone that ds has lice (including the very people who gave it to him!)
But that is no excuse

I do want to move on from this, continue our friendship if they can get rid of the lice. I will not hold a grudge. But I am also not willing to pretend like it was okay for them not to say anything just because they were ashamed. This wasn't a single playdate...it was weeks of playing every day. I can't relate to that at all.

.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
EXACTLY. We have spent HOURS combing Owen's hair and it STILL has nits in it (I am gonna do it again in a few minutes). To do it thoroughly takes several hours. This will be the 4th time...that will prob equal about 12 hours spent combing his hair in 3 days.

Don't forget the vinegar rinse to loosen the glue, and don't try to comb too much hair all at once. If you try to comb through too thick a lock all at once it will make the prongs of the comb open up and it won't get the nits, so for thick locks of hair divide them into smaller sections and do one _small_ section at a time.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

If this were happening to me I would weigh the factors....

1. They have a longstanding ongoing problem with lice that they are pretty cavalier about.

2. They didn't say a word to you and allowed their children to come and go in and out of your home, and yours at theirs.

3. Their reaction when you told them suggests they don't see it as a big deal.

I wouldn't want friends like this. And I'd have a big trust issue in the future. See I don't even think they lied to you, I just think they didn't even care- which is almost worse.

We avoided my SIL and her two kids for over a year because they had lice. SIL just couldn't seem to bother herself to remove the nits and get rid of it. She kept doing showercaps and goo treatments and then proclaiming they didn't have it (because she'd heard they can't survive xyz goo treatment so they automatically were cured) so I'd go over to her house and couldn't help but stare at the tops of my neices heads and low and behold everytime- lice. On our daughter I nitcombed and had her 100% clear in 2 days zero pesticides, or olive oil or showercap treatments. And then I combed EVERY single day for 2 weeks, and then I did every other day, and then once a week. Because she couldn't get rid of it we stayed away. It's a horrible amount of work to put on someone and I have OCD which causes serious anxiety so for me it's not very negotiable.

I think anything less than telling EVERYONE who was exposed to your child the day you find the lice is seriously rude. Plus why would you want to risk getting it over and over again by not telling those potentially infected? I don't get it.

And I do think it's gross, not the people who have it- the lice themselves. You can say "oh it's nature" all you want, it's nasty. Getting parasites on your person is gross. Having things lay eggs in your hair is gross.

We wouldn't be friends anymore.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

There are several brands at vitacost.com

I think ours is avalon organics.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

You can add the oil to conditioner or shampoo yourself. I would also bet that you could make some sort of a spray that you spritz on before school or a b-day party or whatever.

You can also use TTO for repelling fleas-just don't use it on cats! You can put it in lotion and use it like a bug repellent when you are camping. You can use it in homemade house cleaners. TTO is VERY useful!

We have a Grocery Outlet here and it is only $2.99 for a bottle of TTO.
Another MDC Mama said that Target has it for about $5 which is a good price.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

TTO is VERY useful!

We have a Grocery Outlet here and it is only $2.99 for a bottle of TTO.
Another MDC Mama said that Target has it for about $5 which is a good price.

Can anyone tell me where in Target one would look for TTO?


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Can anyone tell me where in Target one would look for TTO?

I would think that either in the health and beauty area or with supplements and vitamins.
It is sold in a very small bottle...usually only an ounce or two...

Hopefully someone else will know for sure!

.


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Having 2 kids that I couldn't use lice shampoo on (kids with skin conditions), I would have been mightly pissed if one of their friends had lice and their friend's parents didn't tell me.

The last time I had lice as a kid, it took 3 months for my mom to be able to get it under control.


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## melissanc (Jun 24, 2008)

Well we fought the lice battle once and won. To this day I still have no clue where they came from. DS has waist long hair so you can imagine the fun it was to get rid of them. Being a boy it was easy for people to tell me to just cut it off but we kept up with the lice shampoo and the nit comb and hours of combing and finally cleared it up.

Are there any good ways to keep them from coming back and with the really long hair anything we could do with it to protect it when we are out and about? I usually braid it now and was told that helps but wondered if there were better idea...and no cutting it off is not one of them


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Well he is playing outside with the neighbor kids right now. I can hear them shrieking and laughing with joy. I have to comb his head tonight anyway so I will just do it when he comes inside

I hope that they get rid of the lice so the kids can play in the winter

.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

I may be looking at this from a totally different place though as over here we even let our kids catch chickenpox
Yes, but chickenpox has a definite end to it. You don't have to get rid of it yourself.

Quote:

Also what brands of tea tree oil and rosemary shampoo are people using? This thread inconjuction with DD starting pre-school is making me want to be pro-active on the lice thing.
We use the Jason tea tree shampoo.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

So would you dilute the TTO in water and then spray on hair (if wanting a preventative measure)? Would it last pre-mixed in a sprayer?

Reading this thread has made my head itch. I cannot stand lice.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Ugh, I'm fighting the urge to scratch my head reading this thread.

Honestly, after having lice as a kid and being nearly traumatized over it (at my school it was considered the equivalent of leprosy) I wouldn't let my ds play with those kids until I knew they were lice free. Or at least not in my home. And if the parent's seemed really laid back I would call the school and see what the policy is on lice, and report them if need be.

I sound harsh, yes. I just remember the horrible treatments I had to go through. My cousin and I both got lice at around the same time, and as soon as one of us would get rid of it the other would get it (I originally caught it from school). It lasted a while and was awful! My scalp would burn and I'd cry from the treatments. So no, I wouldn't risk my son going through that because other parent's weren't taking it seriously enough. Flame me if you'd like, but lice is NOT a pleasant thing to have.

I never knew about tto working as a preventative measure. I'll look into that some more.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
Ugh, I'm fighting the urge to scratch my head reading this thread.

Honestly, after having lice as a kid and being nearly traumatized over it (at my school it was considered the equivalent of leprosy) I wouldn't let my ds play with those kids until I knew they were lice free. Or at least not in my home. And if the parent's seemed really laid back I would call the school and see what the policy is on lice, and report them if need be.

I sound harsh, yes. I just remember the horrible treatments I had to go through. My cousin and I both got lice at around the same time, and as soon as one of us would get rid of it the other would get it (I originally caught it from school). It lasted a while and was awful! My scalp would burn and I'd cry from the treatments. So no, I wouldn't risk my son going through that because other parent's weren't taking it seriously enough. Flame me if you'd like, but lice is NOT a pleasant thing to have.

I never knew about tto working as a preventative measure. I'll look into that some more.

How much of this is down to the way that it was handled? I'm trying really hard not to get this thread shut down, but treating a child with head lice as if they have leprosy is abuse, plain and simple, and I trust that nobody here would do that to their children. There's a lot of talk about it but nobody is actually picking up and running with the point that Orangefoot and I are trying to make.

1) Lice walk, not jump, from head to head. They are parasitic, and their bites itch. Because it can take months to become sensitized to the bites, people frequently have no idea they've got them- that's why checking is so important. In a way, it's something to be proud of- a kid with no friends doesn't have lice, and it's as simple as that. This also means that it is unbelievably difficult to tell where you got an active infestation from if you aren't checking, because the allergic response (itchiness) develops at different times in different people.
2) Lice do not transmit any known disease. They exist solely for the function of sucking our blood. They are not a health hazard in any other sense of the word.
3) Everyone on the planet has a home remedy for head lice.
4) Treatment is not prevention. If you treat your whole family, the little boy next door also has lice and comes to play the next day, then the whole family is going to have lice again







:
5) Fashion, as much as anything, has led to this. I noticed that my boys had less problems with nits and lice when we went poo-free. Tying girls hair back is a known effective deterrent- so is brylcream on boys. Generally, nobody does either of these things nowadays.

BUT nobody is actually picking up the crucial point here- of asking what damage we are doing to our children's body image and self-confidence of subjecting them to this treatment in the name of lice. What are we doing to our social relationships and interactions with other children? Is it actually justified? A PP talked about comparing lice to leprosy, but that's pretty disproportionate.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
No way would I be willing to have the kids get continually reinfested.

Me either. Absolutely no playdates for a good two weeks minimum, and longer if their mom wouldn't effectively treat her kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
Actually, most of the health organizations are no longer recommending absence from school for head lice.

I don't think that has filtered down to my area. Here you are banned from school until you have treated effectively. They do lice checks in the schools.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
If the kids are going to school with lice, I would call the school. Once they know about it, they won't let the kids back until all the lice and eggs are gone and will check.

This! I would ABSOLUTELY call the school if your neighbor is sending her kids to school with lice - that is really unacceptable!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
All I am saying is that yes, lice are irritating but in the grand scheme of things there are worse things a neighbour could deliberately expose you to and worse things your children could suffer from which cause them upset.

I may be looking at this from a totally different place though as over here we even let our kids catch chickenpox









I'm down with the chicken pox, and would take it ten times over lice. What worse things could a neighbor expose your kids to? I really can't think of anything worse - cold, flu, pink eye, chicken pox, R rated movie, swearing - nope, I'd take any of those over lice.

I'd feel for your neighbor, but I wouldn't let my kids play with hers until it was resolved.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Our dd had lice 4 times last year - a child in her class at school wasn't being treated at home, now when she goes to school I spray her hair with a mixture of sweet almond oil and TTO, and tie it back in pigtails and it works fine, but if I forget to spray on Monday morning you can be sure that by tuesday she's got them!! I use an actual bottle of TTO rather than soaps or shampoos with it in, because you don't really know how much is in there! Every time that dd has had lice I have informed the school and friends I would never think of not letting folk know - I would hate for us to have infected someone else and not let them know - it's just rude really - I understand the frustration and I know how my heart sinks every time I see those little buggers but I think it is important to let folk know. BTW TTO is really great for getting rid of intestinal worms too, yes they come along as well and their eggs are even airborne so you can get it ANYWHERE - yuck!!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Don't you know that you probably have Demodex folliculorum on your eyelashes? And how do you think all those dust mites in your house stay alive all day if they aren't feeding off you?

I am exasperated by the misinformation in some of the posts on this thread and frankly I am shocked that so many people are willing to shun a family who have a few varmints on their head rather than think about how they could cover their child's head to prevent them catching them. THAT is lazy.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

:


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## hibana (Jun 9, 2006)

What orangefoot said. Hat, bandanna, headscarf, etc. Talk to the other mom. Maybe ask about a heads-covered policy for all the kids when playing together. I also liked the de-lousing party idea...


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Honestly, it must be cultural. All the posters who seem to have the highest tolerance for living with lice are from the UK.

Maybe they're extremely common over there and something people are used to just dealing with, but where I live they're something to be eradicated from the home immediately, and parents are cautious about passing them to others. Among my friends and I, it wouldn't be considered a matter of "shunning" a family for having lice -- the family with lice would *want* to limit contact while they dealt with the problem so that it didn't become more widespread.

It sounds like the OP lives in a culture more similar to mine -- it doesn't seem fair to judge her based on the culture of another area.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Honestly, it must be cultural. All the posters who seem to have the highest tolerance for living with lice are from the UK.

Maybe they're extremely common over there and something people are used to just dealing with, but where I live they're something to be eradicated from the home immediately, and parents are cautious about passing them to others. Among my friends and I, it wouldn't be considered a matter of "shunning" a family for having lice -- the family with lice would *want* to limit contact while they dealt with the problem so that it didn't become more widespread.

It sounds like the OP lives in a culture more similar to mine -- it doesn't seem fair to judge her based on the culture of another area.

I'm from the US, but I live in Holland. I don't think anyone has a high tolerance for living with lice in Europe. I think there's just more of realistic, IMHO, approach to lice. Here, they're viewed as an unfortunate part of childhood.

There are regular inspections at school, usually done by parent volunteers who get training from the Health department. If a kid has lice, his/her parents are informed, and all the parents of kids in the class are informed to be vigilant (hair back in pigtails for long hair, combs to inspect, etc.) So there is a definite, concerted attempt to eradicate lice by the schools and the public health officials, which involves parents.

However, I would never not let my kid play with a friend who had lice. All the social issues aside, there really wouldn't be a point, because if the friend has them, they're probably going around school, or swimming lessons, or wherever anyway. To be honest, if you kept your kid away from a kid with lice, you'd probably be viewed as a super-paranoid weirdo!









I don't want lice and, thankfully, DS hasn't had them. But ... you know . . . if it happens, it happens. We've got the comb, we've got the info from the health department, we've got advice from other families who have had an infestation, and we'll just go with it. And, at least my DS will have friends to play with . .. .


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Honestly, it must be cultural. All the posters who seem to have the highest tolerance for living with lice are from the UK.

*Maybe they're extremely common over there* and something people are used to just dealing with, but where I live they're something to be eradicated from the home immediately, and parents are cautious about passing them to others. Among my friends and I, it wouldn't be considered a matter of "shunning" a family for having lice -- the family with lice would *want* to limit contact while they dealt with the problem so that it didn't become more widespread.

It sounds like the OP lives in a culture more similar to mine -- it doesn't seem fair to judge her based on the culture of another area.

Right now I could do with some clarification- are you saying that we (Orangefoot and I) are extremely common because we're British, or are you suggesting that headlice occur with alarming frequency in our lives? I read your post- twice- got outraged, because over here we use "common" as an insult, and reported it







: Must learn to read before I over-react. Sorry, mods








Yes, lice have reached epidemic proportions over here. It's not as bad as in the US, because we haven't yet reached the point where they are drug-resistant- most strains can be polished off with a bottle from the chemist though these days it's apparently taking two or three gos to find the right one. It's got to the point where most pharmacists are actually asking to see a specimen of the lice, presumably so they can sell you the right stuff







: Oh, and the medicated shampoos are available free on prescription for them that go that way, because under-16s get free medicines. Saying that, however, I have two children in mainstream primary school and a toddler daughter and we haven't had a case of head lice in the house in three years.
To clarify, we have missed birthday parties for them, and school (but only once). The preferred strategy is that you send your kid into school and the school sends a letter home that night asking all parents to check and treat accordingly. That way, the whole class will be treated at the same time and as long as the parents keep checking for the next 21 days, the outbreak is over- otherwise, as I was trying to explain to dubfam, your kid would be back in school the next day and would probably get reinfested by someone else. We don't not treat, but we keep it in perspective: it's ONLY lice. Their bites cause allergic reactions and it's horrid to think about parasitic organisms, but that's it.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Don't you know that you probably have Demodex folliculorum on your eyelashes? And how do you think all those dust mites in your house stay alive all day if they aren't feeding off you?
Those things affect people who are allergic to them, but generally speaking, lice itch everyone they infest, not just some.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Right now I could do with some clarification- are you saying that we (Orangefoot and I) are extremely common because we're British, or are you suggesting that headlice occur with alarming frequency in our lives? I read your post- twice- got outraged, because over here we use "common" as an insult, and reported it







: Must learn to read before I over-react. Sorry, mods









I'm from the UK and I didn't read Limabean's post like that at all, I took it as the headlice were really common and not the people.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
How much of this is down to the way that it was handled? I'm trying really hard not to get this thread shut down, but treating a child with head lice as if they have leprosy is abuse, plain and simple, and I trust that nobody here would do that to their children. There's a lot of talk about it but nobody is actually picking up and running with the point that Orangefoot and I are trying to make.



When I said it was treated like you had leprosy, I meant the other kids. It was the big thing in school that could make you an outsider. I did not mean the teachers or parents or that. It's emotionally hard on some kids to deal with lice, knowing the stigma behind them. So yeah, I think that it's really wrong for parent's not to take it seriously and try hard to get rid of the problem.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Right now I could do with some clarification- are you saying that we (Orangefoot and I) are extremely common because we're British, or are you suggesting that headlice occur with alarming frequency in our lives?

Oh my -- I'm so sorry that it read that way! Yes, I was wondering if lice are more common (as in widespread or frequently occuring) there. It made me think of when my friend traveled to Australia and her host family was amused by her fear of cockroaches, because to them roaches weren't a big deal at all.

ETA: Now my interpretation of the word "common" is all skewed and when I read my first sentence above it makes it sound like I think US lice are more high-falutin' than those in the UK.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Don't you know that you probably have Demodex folliculorum on your eyelashes? And how do you think all those dust mites in your house stay alive all day if they aren't feeding off you?

I am exasperated by the misinformation in some of the posts on this thread and frankly I am shocked that so many people are willing to shun a family who have a few varmints on their head rather than think about how they could cover their child's head to prevent them catching them. THAT is lazy.

No, it's not lazy--it's sensible. I've seen lice spread like wildfire through a classroom. I don't believe for a minute that because my kids usually have their hair tied back that they won't get lice. And I know how long a scarf or hat would stay on my kids' head, and it can be measured in nanoseconds.

Maybe you like having bugs crawling all over you and gluing their eggs to your person. If so, that's terrific. Scratch away. Lots of people, however, find it completely disgusting, and have no desire to submit their loved ones to lice.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 

Maybe you like having bugs crawling all over you and gluing their eggs to your person. If so, that's terrific. Scratch away. Lots of people, however, find it completely disgusting, and have no desire to submit their loved ones to lice.











come on . . . i don't think anyone has said that . .. it's all about the approach to dealing with families experiencing an infestation . ...

furthermore, no one is "submitting" their loved ones to lice (which I don't think is possible!







). Some people are just more relaxed about the *exposure* they allow their children to have.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
No, it's not lazy--it's sensible. I've seen lice spread like wildfire through a classroom. I don't believe for a minute that because my kids usually have their hair tied back that they won't get lice. And I know how long a scarf or hat would stay on my kids' head, and it can be measured in nanoseconds.

Maybe you like having bugs crawling all over you and gluing their eggs to your person. If so, that's terrific. Scratch away. Lots of people, however, find it completely disgusting, and have no desire to submit their loved ones to lice.

The OP's child is old enough to be told to keep something on his head to keep lice from crawling on to it.

I don't LIKE lice, of course I don't but catching them is just one of those things. My 15yo recently felt itchy and I found eggs and lice in his hair from I don't know where







He does have a lot of friends who, like us, have older and much younger children in the family so maybe he caught them from one of his friends who caught them from a younger sibling.

His hair is very thick and at the time was shaggy and down to his shoulders but looking how many eggs he had and remembering the last time I had picked eggs out of his hair at age 6 I offered him a severe haircut down to 3mm. He decided he would rather cut and be done with it in one go so off came the hair. His brother went under the clippers out of solidarity and they were both unrecognisable the next day when they went to school.

Perhaps we are just more resigned and less outraged than you Americans are?

Can I politely suggest to the pp who intimated that those of us from other cultures shouldn't judge US citizens that she might like to pop over to the tribal areas and see just how many of us here are not on US soil or have ever been. If you don't want culturally different perspectives then you might be on a very slippery slope. Being British does not exclude me from this forum any more than any other minority I might come from so please think before you say things like that.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Can I politely suggest to the pp who intimated that those of us from other cultures shouldn't judge US citizens that she might like to pop over to the tribal areas and see just how many of us here are not on US soil or have ever been. If you don't want culturally different perspectives then you might be on a very slippery slope. Being British does not exclude me from this forum any more than any other minority I might come from so please think before you say things like that.

That's not how I meant it at all -- boy, I keep sticking my foot in my mouth in this thread! I'm going to get a reputation as an Anglophobe pretty soon! I meant that since the OP seems to be from a culture in which having lice is considered something highly unusual that must be swiftly dealt with, judging her from the perspective of someone living in a culture in which it's thought of as something that is just going to happen from time to time and it's not a big deal isn't totally relevant.


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## joeymama (Nov 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I have to say, I'm shocked at how many people don't routinely check their children's heads for lice. Almost every single parent I know over here wetcombs at least once a week- we do the boys every two days now, Skye every single day. By breaking their legs, it eliminates the possibility of the little blighters breeding. It's not a perfect solution, but prevention is way better than cure.
OP, given that your child's head is crawling with them, the chances are just as good that your kid passed it to the neighbouring family and picked it up at homeschooling group. Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know? *Certainly the chances are that the reason the family next door couldn't clear them is because your kid kept reinfecting them.*


Did you even read the OP's post? The neighbors said they knew their kids had it and had thought that they should have told her about it, but choose not to.
How do you find the time to comb your kids hair with a lice comb everyday? Isn't really time consuming? What methods do you use to keep your kids sitting still for so long, I would love some new tricks in the case I have to comb through my childrens', hair, Do you use TV or video games? Do you have some songs or something? your methods could be useful to the rest of us on this board I am so curious.Does anyone have suggestions for how to get your child to sit still and endure the painful combing out proccess? As a child I remember this being the worst part of lice ...sitting still.
I really like the idea of a de liceing party mabye one parent combs while the other 3 parents de-lice carpets/bedding, what a great idea! What a great way to help support your neighbors in what must be a really hard thing for them right now.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
The OP's child is old enough to be told to keep something on his head to keep lice from crawling on to it.


No...not really. It is summer here and I am not going to expect my son to wear a hat over his AFRO. Do you know how hot that would be???!!
He would certainly end up removing it due to discomfort.

.


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Um yeah put me down for chicken pox too over head lice.

We had a kindergarten that was infested with them badly. AND the little buggers were the pesticide resistant little beasts.

The pediatrician wouldn't give us any more of the lindane shampoo (which is way more harmful to kiddos can cause neuro damage and stroke if applied too much, can't be used on kids under 2.

WE had just got our house free of them when school got out in June after an EIGHT week battle with them and dd got reinfested on the FIRST day of First grade.

I withdrew my child over it and called the board of health. Seriously I spent the entire summer vacation trying to get all 5 of us nit free. Drove me psycho really truly.

And I believe they are a big deal because the bites can get infected. They are hideous. Good Luck ridding your home of them mama.

I ended up steam cleaning everything. Bagging up what I could not steam clean and exposing it to summer Arizona heat outside. Using the nit loosening gel over a towel and then throwing the towel immediately in washer on hot and vaccuuming where I had combed the kids hair and throwing out the vaccuum bag.

We also used vinegar after shampooing and that seems to be an old wives tale that along with some OCD behavior I think did the trick. I can't be sure if it was the vinegar because I did about everything short of setting our hair on fire. I shaved the boys heads. ANd I cut mine to a bob. It was to my behind at the time.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

This topic is hot right now for me because dd2 brought home from school a letter stating that a student in her class had lice.

So i put TTO in their shampoo/conditionner and also in my water bottle that i use when i brush their hair in the morning.

Tonight, we washed all dd's hairs and went thru with a nit comb. I didnt' see anything but healthy scap.

Tomorrow, i think i will do a bun in her hair.

Plus everytime i read about lice or think about lice, my head itches. lol


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
Tsince the OP seems to be from a culture in which having lice is considered something highly unusual that must be swiftly dealt with, judging her from the perspective of someone living in a culture in which it's thought of as something that is just going to happen from time to time and it's not a big deal isn't totally relevant.

Thanks Limabean!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

joeymama, I did read the OP's post. That's why I'm harping on about it- she didn't know, she didn't check and the neighbours didn't have enough sense to think that if they had passed them on to the little boy next door, then he's going to pass them back. Her vigilance could have saved that family, as well as her own, a lot of distress and discomfort. y'know?

Oh, and I use TV or music whilst combing out. To be honest, though, it's a nice chance for some 1-1 time and to talk quietly about our days, and the intimate contact seems to help relax them before bed. I normally follow it with a head massage for the older boys as well.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I had a dream, last night, that I had lice.









I kept combing and combing my hair and getting frustrated ds wouldn't give me some space because they were getting on him!

I think I should reread the ice cream float thread before I go to bed tonight.







:


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom* 
Maybe you like having bugs crawling all over you and gluing their eggs to your person. If so, that's terrific. Scratch away. Lots of people, however, find it completely disgusting, and have no desire to submit their loved ones to lice.

This just sounds so insulting; I didn't hear either of the British ladies say they "liked" lice, or that they'd ever just let their loved ones stay infested.

Again, it's comments like this that help me understand why a mother that's having a hard time getting rid of lice, might feel tempted to just quit saying anything to anyone.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
joeymama, I did read the OP's post. That's why I'm harping on about it- *she didn't know, she didn't check and the neighbours didn't have enough sense to think that if they had passed them on to the little boy next door, then he's going to pass them back. Her vigilance could have saved that family, as well as her own, a lot of distress and discomfort. y'know?
*
Oh, and I use TV or music whilst combing out. To be honest, though, it's a nice chance for some 1-1 time and to talk quietly about our days, and the intimate contact seems to help relax them before bed. I normally follow it with a head massage for the older boys as well.

I LOVE that you are making all of these assumptions.

We have only been playing with these neighbors for about 6 weeks. They have had it since BEFORE we started playing together. MY VIGILANCE could have saved the family that CHOSE NOT TO TELL ME THEY HAD LICE???? What are you even TALKING About???!!!!!!!!!
I know you might be so used to people having lice that you have to check your child's head daily, but it isn't like that where I live. My son is 5 yo and not in school. It is not common practice over here to daily comb for lice. We just don't have that big a problem with it.

My whole point in posting this thread was not to bash this family for giving us lice...it was trying to figure out how my son can be friends with them still yet NOT get lice over and over, because for me that just isn't acceptable, yk?

It seems like you are just trying to be argumentative, and you aren't really bringing anything productive or useful to this conversation. I am just not getting your point AT ALL.

.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I meant that since the OP seems to be from a culture in which having lice is considered something highly unusual that must be swiftly dealt with, judging her from the perspective of someone living in a culture in which it's thought of as something that is just going to happen from time to time and it's not a big deal isn't totally relevant.

See, what I got from flapjack and orangefoot, was that they *do* see lice as something to be swiftly and proactively dealt with.

And, as an American, I think viewing lice as "highly unusual" is actually highly unrealistic. I'm not sure that our infestation-rates are much if any lower than the rates in England or Europe: It seems pretty darned common (as in, frequently occurring







) where I live. I mean, sure, there are a few kids who've never had it, but I think most families have had to deal with it at least once.

I think the British view is much more sensible -- where no one is ostracized but all the parents keep one another informed and do their treatments at the same time. I think this sensible view probably creates a climate where everyone feels comfortable speaking up if their child has lice, because they know their child can still continue with life as usual, as parents diligently work to solve the problem.

In contrast, a general perception of lice as "highly unusual" creates a climate where there's great shame in letting people know that your family has an infestation. Yes, I've stayed true to my conscience and let everyone know when we were dealing with it...

I'm just saying that I'd prefer a climate where it was easier to communicate about this, because I think the shame does cause some parents to cringe away from full honesty, which, as some here have pointed out, is likely to contribute to a situation where kids keep passing it back and forth, because no one's saying anything, and the kids aren't getting treated at the same time.

The British attitude seems a lot more proactive in the long run.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
I had a dream, last night, that I had lice.









I kept combing and combing my hair and getting frustrated ds wouldn't give me some space because they were getting on him!

I think I should reread the ice cream float thread before I go to bed tonight.







:









:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm not being argumentative, you just refuse to see my point. At this point, all I can do is wish you well. Cheers.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
It seems like you are just trying to be argumentative, and you aren't really bringing anything productive or useful to this conversation. I am just not getting your point AT ALL.

Well, I've certainly found her perspective helpful, and I think some others have, too. I'm sorry that you, the OP, haven't felt this way, but it is a public forum, and others come here for help, too, so if anyone else reading the thread is helped by flapjack, it's not a total waste for her to participate.

dubfam, I do hope things are quickly resolved for you guys, and that your little one doesn't have to to go through this again!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

No flapjack, I am not GETTING your point.

It seems that you are really intent on pinning the blame for the lice on my family. It is really strange and I am not understanding WHY you are doing that.

I TOTALLY understand that a kid can keep re-infesting a family with lice, but that WASN'T the case this time.
Even the other family is admitting that they have had lice and WEREN'T TREATING IT. The Never Got Rid Of It. How can my son give lice to a family that already has it???

So It is not that I am unwilling to see your point...I am just baffled as to where you are even coming from.
I understand how lice are spread, and I don;t have judgment for people who get lice. Obviously now that my son has gotten it I will check his head more often. But I had NO IDEA he had been exposed. Had the other family acted responsibly we never would have gotten it. And I still caught it pretty darn early on and I DID save myself a lot of hassle by being vigilant and getting rid of it. Also by letting everyone know that DS had lice.

.


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## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

OT but when I take my DS to get his haircut they sell anti-lice products and it says on the sign that if they find lice that you are obligated to buy the products!

I'm kind of with limabean on the cultural differences. I grew up in the U.S. but all of my adult life I've lived in Europe.
No way would I send my DS to play at someone's house if I knew the kids had lice and no, I wouldn't have them over my house. I wouldn't take my DS to play at a playspace either if he had lice but I'm sure plenty of people do.

I doubt the parents would actually tell me if their kids had lice though, or think it necessary to do so. Just like my SIL doesn't think it's necessary to tell me that her son has conjunctivitis before we go over there.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Well, I've certainly found her perspective helpful, and I think some others have, too. I'm sorry that you, the OP, haven't felt this way, but it is a public forum, and others come here for help, too, so if anyone else reading the thread is helped by flapjack, it's not a total waste for her to participate.

dubfam, I do hope things are quickly resolved for you guys, and that your little one doesn't have to to go through this again!

She keeps telling me that it is my fault my son got lice and that we gave it to the neighbors. She has implied that I am a negligent parent because I wasn't checking my son;s head constantly for lice. I do not see how that has been helpful.









It seems like sometimes people want to throw flames...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
*Just like my SIL doesn't think it's necessary to tell me that her son has conjunctivitis before we go over there.*


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
See, what I got from flapjack and orangefoot, was that they *do* see lice as something to be swiftly and proactively dealt with.

And, as an American, I think viewing lice as "highly unusual" is actually highly unrealistic. I'm not sure that our infestation-rates are much if any lower than the rates in England or Europe: It seems pretty darned common (as in, frequently occurring







) where I live. I mean, sure, there are a few kids who've never had it, but I think most families have had to deal with it at least once.

I think the British view is much more sensible -- where no one is ostracized but all the parents keep one another informed and do their treatments at the same time. I think this sensible view probably creates a climate where everyone feels comfortable speaking up if their child has lice, because they know their child can still continue with life as usual, as parents diligently work to solve the problem.

In contrast, a general perception of lice as "highly unusual" creates a climate where there's great shame in letting people know that your family has an infestation. Yes, I've stayed true to my conscience and let everyone know when we were dealing with it...

I'm just saying that I'd prefer a climate where it was easier to communicate about this, because I think the shame does cause some parents to cringe away from full honesty, which, as some here have pointed out, is likely to contribute to a situation where kids keep passing it back and forth, because no one's saying anything, and the kids aren't getting treated at the same time.

The British attitude seems a lot more proactive in the long run.









:

that's what I was trying to say about my experiences in Holland in my PP.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I offered him a severe haircut down to 3mm. He decided he would rather cut and be done with it in one go so off came the hair. His brother went under the clippers out of solidarity and they were both unrecognisable the next day when they went to school.

That is an easier option for moms of boys than for moms of girls.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot*
Can I politely suggest to the pp who intimated that those of us from other cultures shouldn't judge US citizens that she might like to pop over to the tribal areas and see just how many of us here are not on US soil or have ever been. If you don't want culturally different perspectives then you might be on a very slippery slope. Being British does not exclude me from this forum any more than any other minority I might come from so please think before you say things like that.

I didn't get the impression anyone wanted to exclude non-US moms from any forum - just that we may have different perspectives based on location. I think culturally different perspectives are great, and often quite the learning experience for those of us who have done little to no international travel.

I can understand not calling everyone you know to broadcast the info; it isn't exactly joyful news. But you don't send your child to school or church or someone else's home while infected. You don't allow other kids to come over for playdates without first informing that child's parents. Making the default "the other mom should have been checking her kid's head every day" isn't fair IMO.

I absolutely have SO much sympathy for the kid and parents who have to go through the incessant hair combing/washing process and washing of everything from sheets to clothes to stuffed animals. And I'm not going to sign up for it by sending my kid there for a playdate before it is resolved.

When the OP's kid showed up (unknowing of the lice issue) on the neighbor's front porch, if the neighbor mom didn't want to be up front about the lice issue, the very least she should have done is tell the OP's kid "Sorry, Joey - my kids can't play today."


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I didn't get the impression anyone wanted to exclude non-US moms from any forum - just that we may have different perspectives based on location.

Well, when one poster was saying things like, "Maybe you like having lice crawl all over you ... if so, then scratch away, but some of us think it's gross" ... that's going way beyond just saying, "We have different perspectives based on location."

Quote:

I absolutely have SO much sympathy for the kid and parents who have to go through the incessant hair combing/washing process and washing of everything from sheets to clothes to stuffed animals.
Many of us have got rid of it without doing all that stuff. My family got rid of it (3 years with no recurrence) by treating our hair, hair brushes and accessories, and washing merely pillow-cases (doing nothing to pillows), and of course we washed our clothes -- we do that from time to time anyway.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
That is an easier option for moms of boys than for moms of girls.

Yes but it IS an option

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I didn't get the impression anyone wanted to exclude non-US moms from any forum - just that we may have different perspectives based on location.

Um depends on if they are saying it to you or not I suppose. I get the feeling that if flapjack and I weren't European then more people might be jumping up and down on our behalf.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
Making the default "the other mom should have been checking her kid's head every day" isn't fair IMO.

Perhaps only once a week if you aren't aware of the problem is OUR default and is just one of those things like making sure your child is dressed appropriately for the weather or has shoes that fit properly.

I'm not going to post on this thread again lest I upset even more national sensitivities.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Perhaps only once a week if you aren't aware of the problem is OUR default and is just one of those things like making sure your child is dressed appropriately for the weather or has shoes that fit properly.

I think this is at the heart of a lot of the cultural difference here. It would seem the in the UK a "_good mother_" is vigalent and deals with lice swiftly and efficiently if they should arise. In the USA a child of a "_good mother_" should never ever be allowed to be in the possition of having been exposed to lice in the first place, therefore checking ones child is already an admision of failure.

Now, we here (US MDC moms) know perfectly well that this is just hogwash, but it can be hard to move beyond our cultural baggage. We intellectually know that at somepoint or another our LOs may be exposed to lice, but emotionally we still would like to think that we have choosen the best school where this kind of thing just doesn't happen, or that b/c our LOs are clean they can't get infested. It's just kind of a bitter pill to swallow.

In the UK the reality that it can happen in any school, summer camp, or sports team seem to be less of a disconnect.

It's something I myself am not totally immune from. DS goes to a fairly large preschool with students from several surrounding towns. They recently sent home a flier about lice in a few of the public grade schools. I have to admit I was surpised that the cases happened to be in the wealthier towns and not in the more middleclass ones (happy though since we live in the less wealthy town







.) I know that it was a silly reaction, but it is very ingrained into US culture that lice don't happen to clean wealthy people, so looking feels like an admission that you aren't clean.

So, I think the UK people should get a







for living in reality, and us US moms need to admit to our cultural baggage and move past it. (Though if the UK moms could just accept that US moms come with the baggage and give up trying to understand it, b/c somethings just are hard to explain.)


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
So, I think the UK people should get a







for living in reality, and us US moms need to admit to our cultural baggage and move past it.









Yeah that! And your whole post made me







: inside!


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Yes but it IS an option

not for a girl, it really isn't. I have seen what this technique can do to the soul and the self esteem of a young lady and it is abusive. There are many ways to get rid of lice without shaving your head, and yes I knwo this because I have battled them myself. Shaving a girls head is comitting social homicide on behalf o your daughter. not cool.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I think this is at the heart of a lot of the cultural difference here. It would seem the in the UK a "_good mother_" is vigalent and deals with lice swiftly and efficiently if they should arise. In the USA a child of a "_good mother_" should never ever be allowed to be in the possition of having been exposed to lice in the first place, therefore checking ones child is already an admision of failure.

Now, we here (US MDC moms) know perfectly well that this is just hogwash, but it can be hard to move beyond our cultural baggage. We intellectually know that at somepoint or another our LOs may be exposed to lice, but emotionally we still would like to think that we have choosen the best school where this kind of thing just doesn't happen, or that b/c our LOs are clean they can't get infested. It's just kind of a bitter pill to swallow.

In the UK the reality that it can happen in any school, summer camp, or sports team seem to be less of a disconnect.

It's something I myself am not totally immune from. DS goes to a fairly large preschool with students from several surrounding towns. They recently sent home a flier about lice in a few of the public grade schools. I have to admit I was surpised that the cases happened to be in the wealthier towns and not in the more middleclass ones (happy though since we live in the less wealthy town







.) I know that it was a silly reaction, but it is very ingrained into US culture that lice don't happen to clean wealthy people, so looking feels like an admission that you aren't clean.

So, I think the UK people should get a







for living in reality, and us US moms need to admit to our cultural baggage and move past it. (Though if the UK moms could just accept that US moms come with the baggage and give up trying to understand it, b/c somethings just are hard to explain.)









great post.

As I've mentioned before, in Holland where I live, it's kind of yucky, but a normal part of childhood. "good" school in good neighborhoods get them, poorer gets get them. It's a fact of life, but not a social stigma. Thankfully!


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by limabean
I meant that since the OP seems to be from a culture in which having lice is considered something highly unusual that must be swiftly dealt with, judging her from the perspective of someone living in a culture in which it's thought of as something that is just going to happen from time to time and it's not a big deal isn't totally relevant.
See I find my life the opposite. My hubby is born and bred wiltshirian(from wiltshire, in england) and I am american.

My son got lice a few weeks ago and i pretty much expected it to happen. there was an outbreak. i checked his head daily, dealt with it, its gone.









i did freak out because he had only been in school two weeks and got it, but the lice thing..eh no big deal.

whereas my british hubby freaked out. he was disgusted, etc.

i did tell people, hey , my son has lice lets not play etc, even though i knew he had been treated and stuff, i didnt mind telling people.

youre right, our culture thinks our crap dont stink and when it does they bury their head in the toilet.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Headlice are a constant issue for us here in tropical Australia. I have lost track of the number of times we have had them. In fact, three out of the four of us have a slight case of them right now, & I treat just about continuously when the kids are in school (I use natural oils, no chemicals, & lots & lots of conditioner with a nit comb). So really, they don't even slightly gross me out anymore.... I just deal with it because I have to & suffice to say I have a lot of experience with controlling/managing infestations.

Believe it or not, the local university has spent money & time into researching control of headlice in the school system, & they got some really interesting results which you all might be interested in. Their research cleared up a lot of myths & wrong ideas I had about headlice, & made my life a lot easier when it came to dealing with the problem.

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/headlice/about/default.asp

Quote:

*Myth:* Facts
*Head lice only live in dirty hair:* Head lice have no preference for dirty or clean hair. As long as the scalp is warm and moist and you have blood (their food source), you're a good home... that's all of us!

*Head lice jump and fly:* Head lice do not have wings or grasshopper legs. They have six strong claws, which they use to swing from hair-to-hair.

*Head lice are effectively treated after one treatment session:* Neither chemical or non-chemical treatment kills or removes all the eggs. So young lice will hatch from the eggs after the initial treatment. It is necessary to have more then one treatment to remove the young immature lice before they breed. In this way you can break the head lice lifecycle.

*Head lice live and breed in the house/classroom:* The lifecycle of the lice must be completed on the human head. They die very rapidly off the head from dehydration. The eggs need the warmth and moisture of the scalp to hatch. The lice need the warmth, moisture and food source of the head to live and breed.

*Head lice carry disease and viruses:* Head lice do not carry or transmit disease. They are a nuisance to humans not a health hazard.

http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PH...ce/hlinfo1.htm

This webpage is a really good resource. It is a good place to go when you despair of ever being able to eliminate the dreaded nitties.

My favourite part is this:

Quote:

DO I NEED TO SPRING CLEAN THE HOUSE?
Definately not! Head lice die if they leave the head. The only way head lice can get water and food is by sucking blood from the scalp. A head louse not on the head is a head louse in a desperate situation! Head lice will dehydrate when off the head. The rate at which this occurs depends on the amount of water vapour in the air. *We searched the floors of 118 primary school classroom carpets for head lice while the pupils were out of the classroom. We also checked the children's heads. We found no lice (ZERO!) on the floors and 14,033 lice on the heads of the 2000 or so children using those classrooms. To treat head lice concentrate on the head!*
A small number of lice do move down to pillow slips at night. So change the pillow slip when you are treating your child, or heat it up (hot wash, iron, hot dryer) to kill any head lice that may have walked across to the pillow slip. However, *focus your main efforts on the head, not on the environment. The head is where the action is*!


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## AZChickenlover (Jul 30, 2008)

I am posting a solution that is used to help _prevent_ headlice here in our little bit of heaven. I started working as a kindergarten assistant four years ago at the local elementary school where my daughter attended. It seemed that lice was very prevelent here and had been for over 30 years! The teacher that I was assigned to suggested that I add Tea Trea oil to my shampoo to discourage "head boarders", and after I discovered that I needed to treat our household first (We had already succumbed to the parasites) I have used TTO relgiously. You need to get used to the odor, which is strong, but it does seem to work. After the initial outbreak, we have never had a problem while using it. You can even purchase a commercial shampoo that already contains TTO with a pleasant aroma. I am diligent in it's use, since I regularly hae 60+ Kindergarteners hurling themselves at me daily.


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## miss_sonja (Jun 15, 2003)

aussiemum, that's great information! I'm going to save it and hand it out to friends who need to deal with lice.

This whole thread has devolved a little. The OP was upset, justifiably, because her neighbor failed to inform her that neighbor's kids had lice. Substitute "the flu" and you get the picture.

I've had to stop playdates for over a month due to lice because I wasn't willing to risk infecting another kid. It's common courtesy. Like staying home from work or school when you're sick.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

aussiemum, that sounds like such a great site, and I'll definitely use it if we ever have an infestation in future.

Now I realize I was actually doing the "scientific thing," back when I decided to just focus on our heads and not the whole house. I just did it that way because I was feeling lazy, and then a friend said, "You really don't need to do all that stuff!" -- and I was, like, "Well, I won't! And I'll just be really vigilant to make sure that what I'm doing solves the problem." And it did!

But the "scientific" information I had at that time, basically said you have to treat your whole house. It's good to have this backup.

But, miss_sonja, I don't think the thread has really devolved. When you consider that *the stigma* is what causes some to violate common courtesy by not telling everyone, and this stigma is primarily caused by all the misinformation we've heard about what a Major Task it is to get rid of headlice -- then it makes sense to get the word out that it doesn't have to be such a Major Task.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Isn't anyone worried about the reports that TTO is actually harmful to the hormonal development of young boys? Regular use of TTO has been found to cause breast development in boys.

They're just bugs. They don't pass on diseases, they aren't a sign of poor hygiene. They're just bugs that live on us, and have lived on us for millennia.

For the record, I've never had them, my kids haven't yet had them, and I don't live in Europe. The policy in my school and in every school around us is that you do not have to be nit-free-- just walking-louse-free - to return to school, and that's pretty common. A poster on another board with me is a school nurse (at a private school, I believe) and has repeatedly said that the "Freak out and boil/poison everything" method of dealing with lice is antiquated and has shown not to be particularly effective, and that making kids stay home for weeks at a time is also not effective (and adds to the shame thing that another poster above described).

They're just bugs.

If we do get them, by the way, no TTO for us. I'm trying the Cetaphil treatment, which has a lot of supporters.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
A poster on another board with me is a school nurse (at a private school, I believe) and has repeatedly said that the "Freak out and boil/poison everything" method of dealing with lice is antiquated and has shown not to be particularly effective,

It's good to know that more professionals are starting to practice good science!

Quote:

and that making kids stay home for weeks at a time is also not effective (and adds to the shame thing that another poster above described).
So true!

Thanks for the heads-up about the TTO!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Isn't anyone worried about the reports that TTO is actually harmful to the hormonal development of young boys? Regular use of TTO has been found to cause breast development in boys.
I'm less concerned about the occasional exposure to TTO than I am about having an itchy head.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I'm less concerned about the occasional exposure to TTO than I am about having an itchy head.

That's why I'm glad ds keeps his hair short. I think we'd have to go with rosemary or peppermint alone if it became a regular problem or he had long hair.

We got rid of all soy products to stave off the signs of early puberty in my dsd, and I think starting the tto shampoo because of a big lice problem at school may be what stirred things back up. As it is, we still managed to slow things way down. 10 is _way better_ than 6.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
That's why I'm glad ds keeps his hair short. I think we'd have to go with rosemary or peppermint alone if it became a regular problem or he had long hair.

We got rid of all soy products to stave off the signs of early puberty in my dsd, and I think starting the tto shampoo because of a big lice problem at school may be what stirred things back up. As it is, we still managed to slow things way down. 10 is _way better_ than 6.



















Yeah, when Savithny mentioned about TTO causing breast-development in boys -- I wondered if it might not be harmful to girls, too. I mean, I'm guessing it must stimulate estrogen-production -- and don't high levels of estrogen, especially when they cause puberty to occur early, increase girls' risk for various cancers in later life?

Since I know from experience that an "itchy head" can be totally cured without TTO, I see no reason, now that I know the risk, to set my girls up for possible health-problems later on.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
They're just bugs.

Such great wisdom bears repeating.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Isn't anyone worried about the reports that TTO is actually harmful to the hormonal development of young boys? Regular use of TTO has been found to cause breast development in boys.

They're just bugs. They don't pass on diseases, they aren't a sign of poor hygiene. They're just bugs that live on us, and have lived on us for millennia.

For the record, I've never had them, my kids haven't yet had them, and I don't live in Europe. The policy in my school and in every school around us is that you do not have to be nit-free-- just walking-louse-free - to return to school, and that's pretty common. A poster on another board with me is a school nurse (at a private school, I believe) and has repeatedly said that the "Freak out and boil/poison everything" method of dealing with lice is antiquated and has shown not to be particularly effective, and that making kids stay home for weeks at a time is also not effective (and adds to the shame thing that another poster above described).

They're just bugs.

If we do get them, by the way, no TTO for us. I'm trying the Cetaphil treatment, which has a lot of supporters.

Try having lice on your head, it's extremely uncomortable to say the least. Lice are nocturnal so they inhibit the ability to sleep and you itch, and then you bleed and then you itch and then you bleed and then you itch and then you bleed.... you get the point. Severe cases can cause anemia as well.
FWIW, my kids and I had lice and I tried many things. The cetaphil/nuvo method is the one thing that finally worked.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I guess when we had lice we started feeling better as soon as we'd smothered them with the olive oil -- which we did as soon as we realized we had them -- so by that night we weren't getting bit any more.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 









Yeah, when Savithny mentioned about TTO causing breast-development in boys -- I wondered if it might not be harmful to girls, too. I mean, I'm guessing it must stimulate estrogen-production -- and don't high levels of estrogen, especially when they cause puberty to occur early, increase girls' risk for various cancers in later life?

Since I know from experience that an "itchy head" can be totally cured without TTO, I see no reason, now that I know the risk, to set my girls up for possible health-problems later on.

I wonder too, how much it takes to do this? I react strongly to soy and to estrogen pills (some UAV doc gave me estrogen in error once and I had daily migraines) but the shampoo didn't bother me at all. However, dsd overuses everything, so she may have been exposed to much more tto than I was simply because she uses so much shampoo, and may not have been rinsing as well. I'm going to google, but in the meantime I may look into just adding peppermint and rosemary oils to regular shampoo and skip the tto altogether from now on.

I've been so careful with her diet and had no idea about the tto and hormones.







:


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
Try having lice on your head, it's extremely uncomortable to say the least. Lice are nocturnal so they inhibit the ability to sleep and you itch, and then you bleed and then you itch and then you bleed and then you itch and then you bleed.... you get the point. Severe cases can cause anemia as well.
FWIW, my kids and I had lice and I tried many things. The cetaphil/nuvo method is the one thing that finally worked.

Yeah, we tried everything until we got to the tto, and it was absolutely miserable. The itching was ungodly, and once I'd seen the damn things, every little brush or itch made me think I had things crawling all over me. Dsd has so much hair it was nearly impossible to get all the eggs out, and even though _logically_ you know you aren't dirty, _psychologically_ it's just awful after a couple of months when you can't get rid of them. I think we had them for 4 months before we finally completely got rid of them. I would rather be physically ill than have a parasite for 4 months. ugh.

Dsd had scabs where she had scratched and scratched. She's self conscious almost to the point of being neurotic anyway, and having lice for a long period of time _did not help._


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
However, dsd overuses everything, so she may have been exposed to much more tto than I was simply because she uses so much shampoo, and may not have been rinsing as well.

That seems likely: I remember how I used to slather stuff on my hair and body when I was a kid! And don't blame yourself -- how could you have known? I was planning on using the TTO again soon, too (we'd used it for a little while after our last infestation 3 years ago).

Quote:

I've been so careful with her diet and had no idea about the tto and hormones.







:


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Well, at least I know _now._ Lavender has done the same thing, apparently, so peppermint and rosemary are the way to go.

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/prod...derteatree.htm

And look!

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...sku=sku3790485

http://www.burtsbees.com/webapp/wcs/...0001&langId=-1

http://www.drugstore.com/qxp80683_33...g_rosemary.htm

http://www.vitacost.com/Avalon-Organ...mizing-Shampoo

http://www.vitacost.com/Avalon-Organ...poo-Peppermint

Avalon organics is what we buy anyway, and they make peppermint and rosemary without the TTO! woot!







:


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Thanks for the links!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

yw


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

You know, I had absolutely no idea the tea tree oil could cause hormone disruption- no idea at all.







: So I am going to look into that, & maybe change my treatment protocol.

Here, once you get rid of headlice, a lot of people just comb with conditioner once a week just to make sure the kids stay nit free (it's usually Friday night- end of school week kind of thing).


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yeah, but we tried suggesting that upthread and I got shot down in flames


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

This is completely OT and tell me to start another thread if you wish but can you tell me that if we shouldn't be using tto for our kids, can we use rosemary oil as a prevention as I would have with tto (i.e. a couple of drops in shampoo or in a spray oil to put in hair)? Yes we've just got them ... again ... and I find 4-5 hours of combing just impossible for a 6 year old with long curly fine hair which these little creatures love, do you do the combing even after putting oil in the hair overnight?

On a social issue if you know a child at school is not being treated, the parents do not collect/take to and from school would you inform the school saying that the child is infested (she really is) poor thing, and she really is a lovely child I and my kids like her very much but it's just not fair on everyone if she is continually infecting everyone else - it's getting to be a bit of a dilemma for us.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

ewe+lamb -- the olive oil should kill all the live bugs, then if you do it again 8 days later it should kill all the babies that have hatched, before they mature enough to lay eggs. Then you wouldn't have to nit-comb.

I guess the main concern would be the nits that hatched between the first treatment and the second -- that they could infect other kids. Of course, that's no problem if you live in an area where kids are not stigmatized for having lice, meaning you could tell everyone and all the other parents could do their treatments at the same time you were doing yours, so all the hatchlings would get killed before maturing.

In my area, where there is a stigma, I'd probably nit-comb following both treatments, just to be on the safe-side. At least the oil makes combing a little easier.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Or, to avoid the nit-combing -- how about keeping the hair oiled for the full 8 days?


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## kimiij (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
OP, given that your child's head is crawling with them, the chances are just as good that your kid passed it to the neighbouring family and picked it up at homeschooling group. Lice are nothing to be snobby about, y'know? Certainly the chances are that the reason the family next door couldn't clear them is because your kid kept reinfecting them.

I agree. They probably got it just how your kid got it- kids playing with other kids that have lice.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Two things:

I was under the impression that the primary way that olive oil works isn't b by killing them outright but by making it easier to do the combing that is the truly effective method. I'd always heard that finecombing over and over is the only way to get all the nits.

That said:

Everyone is assuming that the Liceridden Family in the OP is just not taking care of the situation. But as I was contemplating "what would we do if..." i asked myself "Okay, after I fine-comb both kids, WHO is going to do the same for me? I'd have to get DH to do it, right? What if he were travelling for work and not around? What if he were working late every night? Would he even have the Madd Haircombing Skillz needed? I'm thinking that my regular hairdresser would NOT welcome me showing up with a bottle of oil and a nitcomb and asking HER to do it.

So I wonder - people treat the heck out of their kids to get them back into school. I read all these stories about "Oh, I spent hours every night combing and washing and bagging bedding," but they never say how the parents treated thmselves or each other! Are the adults not able to treat themselves, and THEY are reinfecting the kids?


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I know I said I wasn't going to post again

but

Please can it be referred to as INFESTING?

Lice are not inFECTous and carry no diseases and the people who have them in their hair er not infectious either.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

ewe+lamb, I believe in combing, and I'm really sceptical that pouring olive oil on the head is an effective treatment if you don't couple it with combing. After all, with insecticide shampoos you smother the head and it tends to miss a few, I don't see how olive oil is going to have a 100% hit rate.

Savithny, that's why I'm so vigilant. When we had our Big Infestation, I had waistlength hair. It took 9 hours that first night to clear my head, three hours three days later, another three hours three days later... I have masses of fine hair which tangles easily, and the little blighters were not only down at the roots but also living at shoulder-height. It was grim







It took longer to clear me than anyone else and I'm fairly sure I reinfected my kids once or twice, but if we hadn't been checking them so carefully, we'd never have known.
Oh, and this is how you know you have a True Mummy Friend. You know what the nicest thing you can say when your friend tells you their kid has nits? "When you're done with the kids, would you like me to check you over?" It happened once to me, and it's up there with bringing food during a three-month-old growth spurt or cleaning the house for someone whose kid is in the throes of separation anxiety.


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## Mel38 (Jun 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Oh, and this is how you know you have a True Mummy Friend. You know what the nicest thing you can say when your friend tells you their kid has nits? "When you're done with the kids, would you like me to check you over?"

So true! What a wonderful idea!

I haven't taken the time to read the whole thread (so sorry in advance for butting in!) but having just spent the past 3 months dealing with this, I am *convinced* that the manual method (combing & picking) is best. It just always came down to that for our family. I now have a routine that involves sitting with the kids on the front steps of our house (sunlight is great for finding the critters!), combing them thoroughly. The kids complain a bit, because it takes a long time, but it has truly been the one and only routine that eventually rid our family of this infestation!

By the way, I am extremely short-sighted, and I do all my combing without glasses or contacts, with my face just inches from the kids heads. I'm sure I look just like a mama monkey grooming my kids, but it works!!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
ewe+lamb, I believe in combing, and I'm really sceptical that pouring olive oil on the head is an effective treatment if you don't couple it with combing. After all, with insecticide shampoos you smother the head and it tends to miss a few, I don't see how olive oil is going to have a 100% hit rate.

Yeah, we actually did tie plastic bags on our heads over the olive oil.

Quote:

Oh, and this is how you know you have a True Mummy Friend. You know what the nicest thing you can say when your friend tells you their kid has nits? "When you're done with the kids, would you like me to check you over?" It happened once to me, and it's up there with bringing food during a three-month-old growth spurt or cleaning the house for someone whose kid is in the throes of separation anxiety.
Yes, one of my friends went through my hair for me -- and it was just wonderful!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

The idea of the olive oil (or mayonaise, conditioner, etc) isn't that it out right kills them like the poison in the insecticide shampoo. The idea is that the bugs drown in the oil. Supposedly they can only hold their breath for 4 hours.

Since the treatment is harmless to humans, it can be repeated more frequently than the every 8 days and can be left on longer than 4 hours. With toxic shampoos one wants to follow the 8 day rule carefully to avoid over exposure, but one can do oil treatments every night for weeks if they want to. Many people leave the oil treatment on over night while sleeping.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

OK so what I did last night was oil my hair and my kids, dh doesn't have any







, then wrapped the head in clingfilm and clipped tight with barettes, put towels over the pillows and fine combed the kids and then myself this morning (although I have short hair - thanks to my son but that's another thread completely) do I therefore have to repeat the process again tonight, I'm thinking I'm just going to get some rosemary oil, mix with sweet almond oil and put it in our hair for a week - I'll still nit comb (but it takes HOURS with my dd - 5 hours this morning poor thing) I can't imagine doing that every night for 8 days!!!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

The main reason for smothering them again in 8 days, is that I think a nit hatches within about 6 days of being laid (but isn't mature enough to lay eggs 'til about 21 days old) -- so if you smother all the live bugs, no more nits can get laid, so you wait 8 days for all the remaining nits to hatch, then smother all those new bugs -- and then there should be nothing left.

But we did always combine the oil with nit-combing.


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## hsofia (Sep 9, 2008)

I had no idea that lice were so common. I've never had them, nor did any of my brothers or childhood friends. My mom says she got lice once from a girl in grade school who sat at the desk in front of hers; she would flip her hair back all the time, smacking my mom in the face.

Then again, I was raised Muslim and the girls generally wore little head scarves. I wonder if lice spread faster in longer hair, too?


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

Oh yeah I think we can trace dd's neurotic excoriation (picking her head) straight back to those "just bugs." She's 15 and has not had them since she was 6 and when she is anxious Guess what she does? That was probably the only time she ever had unbearable anxiety. When she found out lice were bugs on her head.

It's hard not to panic when your head is teeming with them. I know cuz I was trying really hard not to freak out and pick them off of her. Cuz yeah I'm the mom and it's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.

I'd rather go thru the "Major Task" we had the resistant kind and I'm telling you just combing the the nits out HAHA. No you don't just pluck them off and they are gone. It's VERY hard to get all the little buggers once and for all. Or atleast the strain of them that we had. If you've had them and got rid of them fairly easily good for you count yourself lucky, but if you've had the resistant kind...yeah it's a major PITA but you don't complain cuz it's worth it not to have a head full of 'em.

I think it's both the stigma and the alternative view that they are no big deal that causes ppl to let their kids play with other kids and share head gear and spread them.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ewe+lamb* 
This is completely OT and tell me to start another thread if you wish but can you tell me that if we shouldn't be using tto for our kids, can we use rosemary oil as a prevention as I would have with tto (i.e. a couple of drops in shampoo or in a spray oil to put in hair)? Yes we've just got them ... again ... and I find 4-5 hours of combing just impossible for a 6 year old with long curly fine hair which these little creatures love, do you do the combing even after putting oil in the hair overnight?

On a social issue if you know a child at school is not being treated, the parents do not collect/take to and from school would you inform the school saying that the child is infested (she really is) poor thing, and she really is a lovely child I and my kids like her very much but it's just not fair on everyone if she is continually infecting everyone else - it's getting to be a bit of a dilemma for us.

It is my understanding that there are several oils that will repel them, but tto and lavender have been linked to hormonal disturbance, so you can use the others.

peppermint, neem, eucalyptus, rosemary and I think I saw citronella mentioned on one site, but it was mixed with some of the other oils.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Labbemama* 
I think it's both the stigma and the alternative view that they are no big deal that causes ppl to let their kids play with other kids and share head gear and spread them.

Well, at least I don't think anyone on this thread has said lice is "no big deal." Everyone seems to be in favor of dealing with them swiftly and proactively.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

http://www.licebusters.ca/

And there are companies that will come to your house and can do each person in about half an hour - we had them come here for a foster child once, after dfd got them from visits home at least once a month for 5 months. It was awesome. I think it was these people http://www.licesquad.com


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Labbemama, we're not arguing that they're no big deal. We're actually just arguing for an evidence-based approach to lice, focusing upon early detection, rigorous combing, the use of insecticides both natural and chemical as desired, and sod all panic. I feel for your daughter- I have trichotillomania and have done since I was a child (I'm sure I had lice at least once, don't remember any trauma) and the Big Infestation freaked me out.
hsofia, I think it's easier for lice to walk from long hair to long hair. I had them down biting my shoulders when my adorable children brought them home to me, so that would definitely be a risk for transmission.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Yeah - tie long hair back - that's what we've always been told with dds hair - but she really loves to have it untied and long so that she can feel it down her back so we tend to do it only on school days, and in the holidays leave it loose anyway I'm off to do more combing!!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I am thankful that I never had them growing up since I had very thick very curly hair and getting them out would be nearly impossible.

My mom had them as a child and back then if you had lice you where shunned and always carried that "dirty person" stigma from then on so I was raised that way as well.

Apparently they are going around dd's school but so far no note has been sent home. Actually in the 3yrs dd has been going to school I have never gotten a lice note.







: (no pun intended)

Dh is the one that told me they were in dd's school because a foster child staying with the paster had them and they cut her hair off







he asked me how cutting the hair killed the lice and I had to explain to him that it didnt just made it easier to get them out.

I wouldnt have a problem shaving ds if he got them but there is no way I would ever cut dd's hair.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:

I am thankful that I never had them growing up since I had very thick very curly hair and getting them out would be nearly impossible.

That's not true- you can get rid of headlice no matter how thick or curly your hair is. Truly, perserverance is key.

ANd olive oil is useless, imo. I've tried mayonaise as well. As my DD says so succinctly, 'My head smells like salad dressing & I still itch!'.

Head lice are a pita, & can be a big deal, but it is so not worth social exclusion. Once you have combed your kid's hair, they are not 'contagious' for at least a day, even if they still have eggs attached to the hair shaft.

Crikey, did anyone even read the links I posted to concrete scientific research on head lice control??? Yes, concrete research, & not sponsored by some shampoo corporation either.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Or, to avoid the nit-combing -- how about keeping the hair oiled for the full 8 days?

A woman my dh works with told him a lot of people here spray skin so soft bath oil spray into their hair (it's a nasty oil from Avon) to prevent the from jumping on board. It smells just like bug spray to me, but I don't know if it's the odor or the oil that repels them. I wondered why I smelled that nasty [email protected] everywhere I went. Snopes says it doesn't work as an insect repellent, so it must be the oil that keeps the lice off.

At any rate, oiling the hair seems to work. Is there a way to get a less stinky oil into some sort of atomizer?


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
Actually in the 3yrs dd has been going to school I have never gotten a lice note.







: (no pun intended)









:


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Lice have little claws for feet that cling onto the hair of their host, when oil is on the hair it makes it much harder for the lice to get a good grip!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Slip slidin' away ...


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

The more you near your infestination, the more you're slip slidin' away ...


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
Honestly, after having lice as a kid and being nearly traumatized over it (at my school it was considered the equivalent of leprosy).

omg I just found this thread and







:

Clearly, after reading some of these responses, it still is the equivalent of leprosy.







:


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
We really want DS to be able to play with the neighbor kids...they are great and their parents are really nice. but we can't keep getting lice and it seems like they are not able to get rid of the lice. I would love to help them resolve the problem but I can't think of how I could do that tactfully.
I just don;t know what to do...hoping some of you have BTDB with the lice thing and can offer some advice for how to deal with the neighbor kids.
I am so frustrated because the family is really great and our kids LOVE playing together.

Maybe they're just using the medicated creams when they could be doing a full blown assault?

When we even suspected we were exposed we oiled everyone's hair, washed EVERYTHING, cleaned the furniture, the whole bit. We didn't end up even getting lice but wanted to do something fast...here's a link to some natural lice removal methods:

http://www.wikihow.com/Kill-Head-Lice-Naturally

Good luck!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Someone needs to comb this thread twice a day with a metal fine toothed comb, keep an eye on it then leave it alone. Do not add chemicals to it, do not wash all the other threads around it but do put all thoughts of disgust out of its head.


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## Manessa (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
The more you near your infestination, the more you're slip slidin' away ...

laughup so funny!


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## Babes in arms (Sep 24, 2005)

No time to read all of these replies, but we had them a few years back and got rid of them by mixing tto with olive oil. I saturated my daughter's head in it. Left it on an hour or so and washed. One treatment was all it took.


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