# Family spanking in your home



## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I know this has been discussed before, but I don't know if my particular issue has been. I have a sister who has a baby born in August of 2007. She isn't spanking him yet but she plans to. I am extremely anti-spanking and have never even considered it for either of my children.

Anyway, I have told my sister she is not allowed to spank at my house. She told me I was being ridiculous. She asked what she's supposed to do if her son decides to throw something at my son. I told her she can handle it gently. She told me that stuff doesn't work.

I feel very strongly that she can't spank here. This is a hit-free house. I don't believe in hitting the children, the dog, the husband, the wife. I don't believe in hitting, period. I know this will be a problem with her. I know it will come up again, as she comes over several times a week and she believes very strongly in spanking.

I have told her if she spanks him here, she will be asked to leave. I'm wondering if this has worked for anyone else and what has happened? I don't want to cut my sister out of my life. I love her dearly and am very happy we recently moved close enough that we can hang out again. So any success (or failure







) stories of asking someone not to spank in your home?


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## CUTESYDOOO (Feb 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I have a sister who has a baby born in August of 2007. She isn't spanking him yet but she plans to.

oh my... at just 5 months old I hope to God she's not spanking the poor baby!!!









I applaud you for being upfront with your sister. Just be sure you stick to what you say. If it puts a strain on your relationship, it's for good reason. HOpefully it won't come to that. I hope she respects your wishes and wish she would follow your lead.

Good luck.

D~


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CUTESYDOOO* 
oh my... at just 5 months old I hope to God she's not spanking the poor baby!!!









This has nothing to do with my current "issue" but I wanted to say that someone already spanked my sister's baby.







She left him with her boyfriend and a friend of theirs while she went out to see a movie with some friends. When she came back the friend told her that the baby wouldn't go to sleep for her boyfriend, so the friend took the baby, spanked him, and put him to sleep. He went to sleep easily after that, she said. I was so horrified. My sister doesn't believe in spanking this young either, so she was upset too, but not as upset as I was.









Quote:

I applaud you for being upfront with your sister. Just be sure you stick to what you say. If it puts a strain on your relationship, it's for good reason. HOpefully it won't come to that. I hope she respects your wishes and wish she would follow your lead.

Good luck.

D~
Yeah, I'm definitely going to enforce this one. I think if it happens once and I actually tell her she must leave and why, she won't do it again. She might decide not to come over after that, though. She also told me today "Well, my house *is* a spanking house, so if you come over here, I'm going to spank my son." It just makes me feel so sad.

Everyone in my family is pro-spanking. My mother thinks I should be slapping my son's hands when he pushes his brother.







I don't understand how people can honestly do that to their children.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Yeah, hit your son for hitting his brother- what will THAT teach him?









In addition to enforcing this rule, you may need to help your sister discipline her child when they're over. She honestly may have no clue how else to curb unwanted behavior.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Give your sister a set of books on alternatives to spanking (even ones that recommend timeouts since those might be more accessible) and tell her "If you decide to spank, you will need to learn these techniques too if you ever want to visit with your child. I'd love to have you over, but you will *not* hit a child in my home."


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

In our situation, it's very simple: I am not "allowed" to breastfeed my child in front of her children, and she is not "allowed" to hit, yell at, or spank hers in front of mine. Not ideal, but she doesn't want her kids to see normal feeding and I don't want my kids to see bad parental behavior... so we compromise.

FWIW, if there is NO changing her mind at all, even after you've tried to redirect her child, etc, and talk to her... I would let her know that you don't want that to be done where you or your child can see it--go to another room. It depends on your relationship with your sister and how much it's worth, IMO.


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
She left him with her boyfriend and a friend of theirs while she went out to see a movie with some friends. When she came back the friend told her that the baby wouldn't go to sleep for her boyfriend, so the friend took the baby, spanked him, and put him to sleep. .

What the hell? This makes me want to cry. Are you kidding me? I hope she doesn't leave the baby with those people any more! That is disgusting. Spanking a 5 month old... what a great sleep solution. Poor baby must have just screamed and cried.


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## bubs8 (Jan 1, 2008)

I agree with the PPs, but I also think that you should only have her over to your house. You certainly don't want your child to see her hitting. If she insists on hitting in her home, don't go over.

My parents think spanking is fine as well. Its mainly because they used to hit us and if they admitted there was anything wrong with it they might feel bad and heaven forbid they admit they weren't perfect parents.

The next time someone tells you to hit your child because he's pushing or hitting you should tell them that you're trying to STOP aggressive behavior, not perpetuate it.


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## yoginisarah (Dec 20, 2007)

I think that is totally reasonable. I don't want my child witnessing violence in our home either. I would certainly ask someone to leave who was creating violence in my house. I think it could really scare my son.


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## robinCBN (Jan 22, 2008)

AKK! spanked a 5 month old for not sleeping?! Thats abuse. This stuff really gets my blood pressure up. I want to save every child from violence, and I can't and makes me cry. That hitting children is horrible and awful is one of those truths I am so convinced of that I cannot understand how others with children can think that it is okay, or even good. I just can't understand it.

I absolutely would not allow it in my home. Helping her dicipline her child in your home with other methods may help convince her that its not necessary.

I hope so.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
When she came back the friend told her that the baby wouldn't go to sleep for her boyfriend, so the friend took the baby, spanked him, and put him to sleep.

Please PLEASE tell your sister that one of the most common perpetrators in _fatal_ child abuse cases is mom's boyfriend. They are often not bonded to the child and have far less invested in not hitting and/or abusing. This is a HUGE red flag. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. But stick to your guns, you are in the right, IMNSHO.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I don't have a story in my home... but I would just say, "My home. My discipline." So.. if her DS throws something at your son, then you model gentle discipline.

And you might want to throw in a "Hands are not for hitting" type phrase.

Spanking a 5 month old baby for not sleeping? OMG.







:


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## Astoria (May 27, 2004)

I just wanted to say that you sound like you are doing great. Sure its uncomfortable, but you are having good conversations about this now, ahead of time. She sounds like she hears and is processing your point of view. She is asking not to be judged, which sounds like where she is right now. People are more likely to move positions when they are not feeling overly defensive. So it seems good to me. She seems to understand that yours is a non-violent house and it sounds like she's going to respect that. (?) And you'll have to see how hers seems. I've known "pro-spanking" families that actually rarely/never do it. I've known others that do it a lot and we need to avoid their space. You'll figure that out as you see the situation evolve. She may model you more and more as you handle things in front of her, especially if you aren't overly judgmental or condescending. She's your sister, so your relationship matters, and I've seen people learn from watching gentle discipline in action. Good luck! And of course, don't allow your child to witness violence, especially against children. This is very very disturbing to kids.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I've said it before & I will again, NOONE hits in my house, ever. If you do you will not be given a second chance, you will leave. And not be invited back. Period. My kids will NOT be exposed to that violence, certainly not in their own sanctuary!


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## lesmac (Dec 17, 2006)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell your sister, if she's at the end of her rope, or needs a break & wants to go out w/ friends, to please call you first. I think that a PP already said it, but your nephew is in danger. My heart breaks for him.

My sister & brother-in-law let our nephew CIO. When he comes here to visit, we hold, rock & cuddle him until they arrive.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Thank you, everyone. I knew I was doing the right thing, but since my mom agrees with my sister, it sometimes makes me question my feelings. I was questioning whether it was right to make her leave if she spanks here, or go with her suggestion which was to let her spank her child in my bathroom. I am so glad you all agree that it's alright to ask her to leave. I am so grateful to have MDC.









And thank you for your good suggestions. I'll keep modeling peaceful, gentle behavior and I've already told her she can feel free to borrow my gentle discipline books anytime she wants to.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I am pregnant with my first, and my sister just had her first about 3 months ago. While she was pregnant, or perhaps even before that, I remember having a discussion with her about spanking, and she thought at that time that there was nothing wrong with it and she planned to spank her children. (I have not spoke with her about this since, so I am not sure if she still feels the same). But anyhow, I don't agree with it, and I dont want it in my house either. But I am SURE that if I told her that she would simply respect my wishes for what I did or didn't want to happen in my home. Your sister should do the same.


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## wildhoneypie (Feb 22, 2008)

In my experience people who normally hit their children will be uncomfortable doing so in your house, and usually even in your presents if they know you are firmly anti "spanking". It may be different with someone as close as a sister but I think many people who hit their children feel bad about it on some level and knowing that you don't approve makes them even more uncomfortable with their own actions. I agree with pp about modeling GD, and maybe even post a sign in your home about hitting. I'm not even touching the spanking of a little babe, I'm too new to get a UV already.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I agree with wildhoneypie. A lot of my friends spank their kids but they know how I feel about it and it has never even come up as an issue in my home. Usually they won't even threaten their child loud enough for me to hear them even when I am in their home. It is good to make your house rules really clear up front and it is good that she is making hers clear up front also so there will be no misunderstandings between the two of you. I think it would also be a good time to make sure she is not going to hit your kids if you go to her home or leave the kids with her to watch if you have not already done that. Sometimes family think they can do whatever they want because they are family.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I think it would also be a good time to make sure she is not going to hit your kids if you go to her home or leave the kids with her to watch if you have not already done that. Sometimes family think they can do whatever they want because they are family.

Yeah, they won't be babysitting my children. My mother might be able to because I know she would refrain from spanking (she babysat for years and though she spanked her own kids, she used time-outs for babysitting) but my sister definitely won't be. She's too liable to lose her cool.

Thanks for the advice.


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## hedgewitch (Jan 24, 2008)

I am just so aghast that someone would strike a baby. Does this not constitute child abuse? I am utterly shocked. As for spanking in my home. Not a chance. As I say to my son 'We don't hit each other in our family.' Nothing else is defensible.

I know it isn't GD but would it be worth looking at giving her something like a supernanny book? She tries to get people away from spanking but is mainstream enough that it might be acceptable rather than 'hippy' stuff your family would reject out of hand. I've witnessed a real turnaround in attitude from family (in-laws!) because something was on television. This makes it a real 'authority'. Odd but true.

I weep for your niece and sincerely hope this hideous abuse ends soon.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat* 
Please PLEASE tell your sister that one of the most common perpetrators in _fatal_ child abuse cases is mom's boyfriend. They are often not bonded to the child and have far less invested in not hitting and/or abusing. This is a HUGE red flag. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. But stick to your guns, you are in the right, IMNSHO.









:

This is so, so serious. For the love of God, do something. If you do a google search on moms and boyfriends and child abuse, you'll get a lot of hits. If you have to, PLEASE CALL CPS AND TELL THEM THAT THE BOYFRIEND IS HITTING THE FIVE MONTH OLD!!!


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

I agree with the pps, no hitting in your house period. Its simple, and yes you should help her learn how to gently discipline, maybe it will sink in.

As far as hitting a 5 month old, you should call CPS, I know CPS is looked at as evil by many on MDC but that baby is in danger.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

There is not hitting in our house. Period. No threats of violence in our house, either.


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## Septagram (Feb 8, 2008)

There was a baby here that died of being beat to death by a Mom's boyfriend just two months ago. Please help that child. Please.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 







:

This is so, so serious. For the love of God, do something. If you do a google search on moms and boyfriends and child abuse, you'll get a lot of hits. If you have to, PLEASE CALL CPS AND TELL THEM THAT THE BOYFRIEND IS HITTING THE FIVE MONTH OLD!!!

The boyfriend did *not* hit the five month old. A friend of theirs did and even though I disagree with spanking, I am pretty sure that CPS would not consider that abuse. The baby is okay. No bruising, no scars, nothing. I would not call CPS over something like this.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
I agree with the pps, no hitting in your house period. Its simple, and yes you should help her learn how to gently discipline, maybe it will sink in.

As far as hitting a 5 month old, you should call CPS, I know CPS is looked at as evil by many on MDC but that baby is in danger.

The spanking was a one time incident where she left the baby with a friend (and her boyfriend was there but it was not her boyfriend that did it) and I know spanking is not against the law. I would not have my sister's baby taken away for that. I am not going to call CPS.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Right, it was the boyfriend's friend.









Even better. Is this boyfriend the child's father? I would advise your sister to not leave the baby with him since he lets his "friend" beat him. You say spanked, I say beat. Hitting a five-month-old is beating them.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
The spanking was a one time incident where she left the baby with a friend (and her boyfriend was there but it was not her boyfriend that did it) and I know spanking is not against the law. I would not have my sister's baby taken away for that. I am not going to call CPS.

Spanking is not against the law, you are right, I am thinking that spanking a 5 month old would be looked at differently then say, a 5 year old.

Who said CPS would be taking your sister's child away? She wasn't even there when it happened. That person needs to never be left to care for a baby again.


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## cycle (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Right, it was the boyfriend's friend.









Even better. Is this boyfriend the child's father? I would advise your sister to not leave the baby with him since he lets his "friend" beat him. You say spanked, I say beat. Hitting a five-month-old is beating them.

ITA. The boyfriend let someone else abuse (thats what it is) his baby, thats just as bad.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Right, it was the boyfriend's friend.









Even better. Is this boyfriend the child's father? I would advise your sister to not leave the baby with him since he lets his "friend" beat him. You say spanked, I say beat. Hitting a five-month-old is beating them.

Yes the boyfriend is the father.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
Spanking is not against the law, you are right, I am thinking that spanking a 5 month old would be looked at differently then say, a 5 year old.

Who said CPS would be taking your sister's child away? She wasn't even there when it happened. That person needs to never be left to care for a baby again.

My sister has said she won't leave the baby with that friend again. She also thinks it is wrong to spank a 5 month old.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cycle* 
ITA. The boyfriend let someone else abuse (thats what it is) his baby, thats just as bad.

The boyfriend says he did not see the spanking because the friend took the baby into the other room.

I agree with you all that spanking is horrible, that it is abuse. I just don't think calling CPS to investigate my sister (who was not there) and her boyfriend/the baby's father (who says he did not see the spanking happen and I have no reason to doubt him) would be helpful at this point. I don't know the friend's name and that person does not have children. I don't think CPS would investigate this one incident. If it continued to happen, I would certainly reconsider.

Thanks for your concern.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

If I knew of someone hitting a 5 month old I would be calling CPS so fast it would make their head spin.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
If I knew of someone hitting a 5 month old I would be calling CPS so fast it would make their head spin.

Who would you call CPS on? My sister? Her friend who doesn't have children?


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I would tell my sister it is her responsibility to keep her baby safe, and if she doesn't, then I would call CPS.

It is illegal here to spank a 5 month old.


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## nhapmom (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
This has nothing to do with my current "issue" but I wanted to say that someone already spanked my sister's baby.







 She left him with her boyfriend and a friend of theirs while she went out to see a movie with some friends. When she came back the friend told her that the baby wouldn't go to sleep for her boyfriend, so the friend took the baby, spanked him, and put him to sleep. He went to sleep easily after that, she said. I was so horrified. My sister doesn't believe in spanking this young either, so she was upset too, but not as upset as I was.







.

i would be calling the cops of this "friend" and having him arrested for abuse. He has admitted to abusing a 5 month old. Regardless of state law re: spanking, it doesnt apply to those who are "hanging aroudn the house" with a friend who decides to just beat a baby. thats just ridiculous.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I would tell my sister it is her responsibility to keep her baby safe, and if she doesn't, then I would call CPS.

It is illegal here to spank a 5 month old.

I agree that if she left her baby with this friend ever again, then she would be responsible for it. I am 100% certain she did not know the friend would do this or she wouldn't have left the baby there.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

That's good to know.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat* 
Please PLEASE tell your sister that one of the most common perpetrators in _fatal_ child abuse cases is mom's boyfriend. They are often not bonded to the child and have far less invested in not hitting and/or abusing. This is a HUGE red flag. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. But stick to your guns, you are in the right, IMNSHO.

All of that, and...

Someone spanked her 5 mo old and she didn't call teh police? WHy? Clearly spanking an infant is a very dangerous thing. (I'm sick as I write this!) Realy, shake her until she gets a clue.

There is not now, nor has theere ever been hitting in my home. My house, my rules. I also don't visit people who are abusive.

Tell her this: If she isn't bright enough to out-smart or out-think her kid, she shouldn't have any. All you have to do is think it through and hitting is wrong.

*sigh* Send her an issue of Mothering. Think about how you too are responsible for this baby. If someone spanks him and he dies or is injured, you are responsible, you'll FEEL responsible.

All that said, years ago, I had three kids and my bff was preggers for the first time. SHe told me she was going to spank, return to work when the babies (twins) were 6 weeks old, bottle feed, and they'd sleep in their cribs from day one, in the nursery scross the hall. She even asked if she could board tehm with me Monday to Friday, and take them home weekends.
















Ha!~ SHe went back to work whe tehy were 15 and still felt guilty. She said the other day that people that have a baby and want (not need) to return to work when they're 6 weeks old ought to just get a puppy. (she said it, not me) She NEVER hit either of them. THey were bottle fed, but she had no choice. (they were premature, there were complications) They slept in their very expensive cribs only a few hours...ever. They slept right between mommy and daddy.

So, show your sister the way. And protect taht precious baby.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I agree that if she left her baby with this friend ever again, then she would be responsible for it. I am 100% certain she did not know the friend would do this or she wouldn't have left the baby there.

I would tell your sister to call the police and report this person. My blood is boiling at the thought of anybody doing that to my child let alone my five month old. I'm really glad your sister is going to protect this child from now on.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
If you have to, PLEASE CALL CPS AND TELL THEM THAT THE BOYFRIEND IS HITTING THE FIVE MONTH OLD!!!

Except that it was the sister's friend who hit the baby not the boyfriend. (Come to think of it what the heck is up with the friend being over with the boyfriend when the OP's sis isn't home? Oh wait,







male friend, nvm)


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

While a parent or legal guardian spanking a child in their care is not illegal in some states, a non related person spanking a child, and definitely a baby is considered assault.


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## amiemarie7 (Feb 25, 2008)

i read your post and was so disturbed, i registered just so i can reply. as i sit here next to my 1 month old, i am ready to cry. you have 2 separate issues in your life. i think you should first address your mother. explain to her the way she disciplined has stuck in your mind all these years, and is the sole reason why you feel so strongly against spanking. go into details of why it is wrong, depending on what you think will reach her, whether it be studies, magazine articles, dr phil, whatever. you cannot help your sister if your mother is in her corner giving her approval.
as for your sister, i am quite confused on why she is so adament about spanking the baby in the future. normally, spanking doesnt start out so thought out, its more out of anger, like the child misbehaves, parent smacks them. you usually dont hear someone deciding that to be their method of discipline at such an early. usually there would be other methods and physical discipline would be for greater offenses, or as a last resort. i dont understand why she is so pro spanking without having experience as a mother. although it sounds like she will be defensive, you could try to show her all the info out there on spanking and it negative effects. show her this thread so she knows how others feel, maybe since she was raised that way, she doesnt understand its not the norm. get her as many informational parenting things as possible such as books, websites, pamphlets- whatever is most appealing to her personality. give her as many other options as possible and as much support and help as you can.
for your specific dilema, i agree with the PP. only have her at your house, and tell her why. make her realize how big of a deal this is. i can guarantee if she feels so strongly about this, she would have no problem spanking in front of you in her home. it is very difficult to tell someone how to act in their own home. maybe she will see your position and surprise you by promising not to do use spanking in front of you. if she disregards you just once, you have to take a stand and remove yourself for awhile because if you allow it even once, it will again be saying that its okay and people do accept. you cannot be one of those people, as you are her sister, the child's aunt, but more importantly, you own children's mother. you cant let them think its okay.
now for the second thing. i am sickened that someone, anyone, would spank an infant for not going to sleep. first of all, we all know that babies cry, they are supposed to. and you cant make them do anything, they have no understanding. the baby has no idea why you are hurting them, and i would assume would cry louder, resulting in the person spanking more. for them to say the baby went to sleep fine, i would have to only think they are lying to cover thier a--, or they hit the child so hard it caused him to lose consciousness. it is child abuse no matter what anyone tells you. there is no understanding in a baby that you, therefore it is not discipline, just abuse. but what takes it a step further is the "friend". i think someone is lying to someone. STORY- father holding baby who is crying and wont go to sleep. father hands baby to friend. friend leaves room with baby crying while dad says nothing. friend decides it is their right to hit baby to make him go to sleep. friend hits baby while dad has no idea. baby just goes right to sleep. friend then tells dad he hit his baby and baby went right to sleep (can we say b---sh-t) and dad has no problem about this. then they both tell mom. i have to say i cant imagine anyone, male or female, taking someone else's 5 month old and hitting them while the parent is in the other room, and then would go tell them. no one would do that unless dad was right there or gave permission. it just doesnt make sense that this friend would think they had that right, kwim. how did they not know that the dad would flip out at someone hitting his baby. you should anonamously call child services to put it on record so they will start a file, at the least, it will show them both how serious and wrong hitting a baby is. if you do nothing, and something happens, it will be your fault. i think you are really scared that something will happen, and you should not ignore it. if they spanked this time, next time the baby will cry louder, and they might pick him up and shake him. they usually say a shaken baby gets quiet and goes to sleep after. i hope this didnt happen already, but i dont see a baby being spanked and going right to sleep. these types of things escalate.
it sounds like you are a good person, who loves her children, and tries to make educated decisions about parenting. i know its hard because she is your sister, but please do something. if you need to lie to her face saying it wasnt you who called, thats okay. just dont let this child be in danger. if everything is in order, it wont be a problem. but if something happens, you will never forgive yourself. good luck to you. i will be thinking of you.


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## hedgewitch (Jan 24, 2008)

The previous post echoes so many of my own thoughts...

I also was wondering why the friend being childless is somehow an excuse for hitting a baby? I can think of no one, with kids or otherwise, who would think this is ok. And why didn't the father address this with the 'friend'? I know what my dp would do if someone struck our son and it would go beyond not letting them babysit.

I know this thread is focusing a lot on the abuse and I don't want the op to feel 'got at' or pushed into reacting a certain way, but the horror expressed here is a reasonable reaction to the situation.

I hope that this situation is resolved and that your sister is able to deal with what appear to be control and anger issues.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Is she familiar with the recent, horrific tragedy of Baby Grace? She was a two year old who wouldn't say "yes sir," to her dad so he spanked her. She still wouldn't, so he spanked her more... and more... and more... and eventually beat her to death. That is how well spanking works. She haunts me, that poor little lost one! Ask your sister what she will do if spanking doesn't work... where does she go from there? Hit harder? Longer? More?

*sob*

I am not holier than thou on this subject, FWIW. I have very strong impulses to spank and slap all the time. I don't remember being spanked very much as a kid, but for whatever reason... it is in me. I fight it. It is worth fighting!


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## saturnfire16 (Jan 8, 2008)

Several people have suggested calling CPS, and I just want to say don't. You risk having the child taken away from what sounds like a loving, yet young and confused mother for something that neither she nor the father did. Foster care can be just as abusive, and being moved from home to home, separated from the mother, subsequently bottle-fed, possibly made to cry it out ect. This can cause just as much if not more physical and emotional danger, then what the child is currently in.

Of course, spanking a 5 month old is horrible and hopefully your sister will be more careful in the future to avoid letting this happen. Talk her her, don't let her spank in your house, and try to gently, lovingly teach her a different way.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saturnfire16* 
Several people have suggested calling CPS, and I just want to say don't. You risk having the child taken away from what sounds like a loving, yet young and confused mother for something that neither she nor the father did. Foster care can be just as abusive, and being moved from home to home, separated from the mother, subsequently bottle-fed, possibly made to cry it out ect. This can cause just as much if not more physical and emotional danger, then what the child is currently in.

Of course, spanking a 5 month old is horrible and hopefully your sister will be more careful in the future to avoid letting this happen. Talk her her, don't let her spank in your house, and try to gently, lovingly teach her a different way.

Thank you. I agree with everything you said.

I appreciate everyone's concern. I will not be calling CPS. I will stand my ground on the No Spanking In My Household rule and we'll go from there.


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## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
The boyfriend did *not* hit the five month old. A friend of theirs did and even though I disagree with spanking, I am pretty sure that CPS would not consider that abuse. The baby is okay. No bruising, no scars, nothing. I would not call CPS over something like this.

You are wrong!

Hitting a 5 month old baby IS ABUSE. And CPS would take it VERY SERIOUSLY.

Don't make excuses for this. It is flat out unacceptable. That baby is in danger. If the kind of people your sister brings areound her baby just spank her baby without thinking about it, imagine what other things they could do.












































What kind of animal would hit a 5 month old? I swear give me 2 minutes in a room with that person and they would have a new understanding of why hands are not for hitting!


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## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
Thank you. I agree with everything you said.

I appreciate everyone's concern. I will not be calling CPS. I will stand my ground on the No Spanking In My Household rule and we'll go from there.

I think it is great that you are doing the "no spanking zone" thing in your house.

But you need to think about something. That baby is completely dependent on the people around it to provide a secure and loving environment. You are the Aunt to this little one. It is also YOUR job also to take care of this harmless baby.

What was your sisters reaction to the spanking? Did she beat the living bejesus out of that animal for what they did to her baby? Or did she just say "don't do that again" and move on?

I ask because if she was providing a safe and secure loving home for this child she would have called the police and had that person arrested for what they did. Or at a minimum beat the crap out of them and banished them from her home forever.

Just from what you posted, it sounds like you and she do not think it is a big deal. The fact is, IT IS A HUGE DEAL. If I were in your shoes there would be some skull cracking going on.

YOU DON'T HIT A 5 MONTH OLD BABY. THAT IS NOT DISCIPLINE. THAT IS ASSAULT.

Has the baby been taken in to check for shaken baby syndrome? Because shaken babies stop crying too.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawn1221* 
I think it is great that you are doing the "no spanking zone" thing in your house.

But you need to think about something. That baby is completely dependent on the people around it to provide a secure and loving environment. You are the Aunt to this little one. It is also YOUR job also to take care of this harmless baby.

What was your sisters reaction to the spanking? Did she beat the living bejesus out of that animal for what they did to her baby? Or did she just say "don't do that again" and move on?

I ask because if she was providing a safe and secure loving home for this child she would have called the police and had that person arrested for what they did. Or at a minimum beat the crap out of them and banished them from her home forever.

Just from what you posted, it sounds like you and she do not think it is a big deal. The fact is, IT IS A HUGE DEAL. If I were in your shoes there would be some skull cracking going on.

YOU DON'T HIT A 5 MONTH OLD BABY. THAT IS NOT DISCIPLINE. THAT IS ASSAULT.

Has the baby been taken in to check for shaken baby syndrome? Because shaken babies stop crying too.

I am anti-violence. I am not going to advocate beating someone, regardless of their age.

I am sorry you think it sounds like I think it is no big deal. I do think it is a big deal. If I thought it was no big deal, I wouldn't have mentioned it at all. If I thought spanking was ever okay, I wouldn't be making the No Spanking rule.

We have talked about it together. She was upset that it happened.

I'm sorry my responses are not what people think I should be doing. I am done talking about this.


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## nhapmom (Jan 25, 2008)

i never suggested calling cps. i dont think taking the child away is the answer.
my suggestion was to call teh police on teh person....that is a clear indication that the mother cares and is protecting her child.


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## amiemarie7 (Feb 25, 2008)

calling cps isnt to get the child taken away(they wouldnt under these circumstances), its just to get a file started, so the pro-physical discipline family members realize how important all this is. maybe the thought that they would be checked up on would be enough. and your sister esp, but bf also, should be told that if they allow abuse(which really just means not stopping it), not themselves doing it, they could still held accountable. they might not know that. sometimes, esp the moms, dont realize they could lose thier kids for letting dad hit them, kwim(just an example).

the way i always think of things is "would i ever be able to forgive myself if
(blank) happened." it really helps to put things in perspective, esp regarding how responsible i am for a certain situation. it may help you in deciding how involved you want to get in your sister's family. something else you might want to do is to make other family members(esp your mother even if she did spank im sure it wasnt when you were 5 months) aware of what happened. it will take some pressure off you to be the sole one worrying as well as build a support system to be looking out for the baby. also, i would really be concerned that friend didnt shake the baby. please mention it to your sis so she can at least contemplate it.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawn1221* 

What was your sisters reaction to the spanking? Did she beat the living bejesus out of that animal for what they did to her baby? Or did she just say "don't do that again" and move on?

I ask because if she was providing a safe and secure loving home for this child she would have called the police and had that person arrested for what they did. Or at a minimum beat the crap out of them and banished them from her home forever.



Oh, Honey, I wish you and I knew who this 'friend' was! My BFF of 10 years TRIED to hit my 5 yo ONCE while she was babysitting. I never left her alone with my kids again. Not for a second. And we weren't friends anymore either.

If my dear, loved DH had hit one of my kids, never mind a baby, I'd have beaten HIM with my metal baseball bat and _then_ called the cops.

This isn't a friend. It's a criminal. A child abuser. SOmeone should be calling the cops. If I knew ANY info, I'd do it in an instant.

If my friend hit ME, I'd call the cops! Why is that because an infant, a tiny baby doesn't have a voice, it's ok to hit it. Why aren't you (the op)freaking out? It's not your fault, of course. ANd you probbaly feel caught between a rock and a hard place. But you could call anonomously. YOu could PM me and I'd be happy to call, and leave you out of it completely. I'd never mention that I heard it from her sis.

God, I want to throw up. I can't imagine hitting a baby. (And I fought the urge too!







It's hard to be alone with a crying baby.)

Please, reconsider. Protect teh baby, not your sister.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I second SappireChan's answer.


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## purple_kangaroo (Feb 20, 2006)

Can the mother get a restraining order against the friend so that he's not allowed to be around that baby, since she would not necessarily be there to protect the child when the boyfriend has him?

The other thing I would want to know is what the boyfriend's response was. If he allowed his friend to spank that baby and put it to bed (we're probably talking an extended period of time that he was leaving a screaming baby unsupervised with a friend, and then apparently NOT checking on it when he heard the crying escalate and then eventually stop???) then what else is he going to allow his friends to do to the child?

If he thinks it's horrible and it was a wake-up call to him to supervise the baby better and he intends to not let that person be around the baby again, then that would at least be a little more reassuring.

Most people, even people who advocate spanking, would consider spanking a 5-month-old to be abuse.


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## mrslinkous (Feb 12, 2008)

If know someone feels so strongly against what you are doing you have to at least give it a second's thought. Just continue to be very vocal about it. Make sure she knows where you stand. This child needs your help. Doesn't her reaction to the situation frighten you? That the baby could be left alone with her boyfriend at any time? If he would let that happen once do you really think he is trust worthy enough to not let that friend over again? I mean if he was there then he to had to condone it. If did nothing that is condoning it. There is no telling what else he considers to be OK. They very seriously need help. That child very seriously needs YOUR help.


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
This has nothing to do with my current "issue" but I wanted to say that someone already spanked my sister's baby.







She left him with her boyfriend and a friend of theirs while she went out to see a movie with some friends. When she came back the friend told her that the baby wouldn't go to sleep for her boyfriend, so the friend took the baby, spanked him, and put him to sleep. He went to sleep easily after that, she said. I was so horrified. My sister doesn't believe in spanking this young either, so she was upset too, but not as upset as I was.









That makes me sick to my stomach. There are so many words I could say but I can't think any more about it or I might actually be physically sick.

I think you are totally right and should stand up for your house rules. Furthermore, I would refuse to go to her house if she insists that it's a "spanking house." I wouldn't take a child into a crack house or whore house or slaughter house, why would I take a child into a spanking house?


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## Lily Eve (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dawn1221* 
What was your sisters reaction to the spanking? Did she beat the living bejesus out of that animal for what they did to her baby? Or did she just say "don't do that again" and move on?

YOU DON'T HIT A 5 MONTH OLD BABY. THAT IS NOT DISCIPLINE. THAT IS ASSAULT.

Good grief, I have to wonder what kind of "friends" her sister's boyfriend has. That alone would make me call CPS. A foster home would be better than a home like this. Hitting a 5 month old baby? Boy, if I were the mother OR the sister I would find out what "friend" did it and then pay them a nice little visit with a sharp object or something very heavy indeed. They'd think twice before hitting a baby again after I was done with them.

Where's the protection here? I don't see any. The poor baby. It's stories like this that make me pray that reincarnation doesn't exist. I would hate to come back with caretakers/parents/relatives that let other people abuse me and don't call CPS to report it.







:


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## Lily Eve (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saturnfire16* 
Several people have suggested calling CPS, and I just want to say don't. You risk having the child taken away from what sounds like a loving, yet young and confused mother for something that neither she nor the father did. Foster care can be just as abusive, and being moved from home to home, separated from the mother, subsequently bottle-fed, possibly made to cry it out ect. This can cause just as much if not more physical and emotional danger, then what the child is currently in.

Of course, spanking a 5 month old is horrible and hopefully your sister will be more careful in the future to avoid letting this happen. Talk her her, don't let her spank in your house, and try to gently, lovingly teach her a different way.

I disagree. This woman's sister has already said she will spank in the future and allowed her boyfriend's friend to hit a _5 month old_. Foster care would be the logical answer as it's already a given the baby is suffering abuse in its own home and will in the future also by the sister who agrees with spanking. With foster care, you don't know what you'll be getting. But since the home the baby is already in is abusive, it'd be much better to take a chance with foster care and hope that the baby will having loving foster parents who aren't dreadfully misguided and abusive people. If I were a CPS worker I would do my utmost to take this child away permanently from the sister, never to return it again.









Stories like these make me sick. Also, I would not be on speaking terms with a sister or relative who believed in spanking. End of story. They would get an earful and then be cut off completely, no ifs ands or buts.


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## Mama_Michelle (Mar 15, 2006)

OMG! I feel sick over the thought of a 5 month old being spanked. It is hard for me to imagine a 5 month old being spanked and then falling asleep easily afterward. How hard was this poor baby hit? The whole story sounds off to me (not as told by the OP but what the boyfriend and friend told the OP's sister). To the OP, please talk up the possible horrible outcomes that can happen when people abuse babies to your sister. Use this upsetting situation to try to educate her about gentle discipline. And I applaud you having a hit-free zone in your house.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lily Eve* 
I disagree. This woman's sister has already said she will spank in the future and *allowed her boyfriend's friend to hit a 5 month old.* Foster care would be the logical answer as it's already a given the baby is suffering abuse in its own home and will in the future also by the sister who agrees with spanking. With foster care, you don't know what you'll be getting. But since the home the baby is already in is abusive, it'd be much better to take a chance with foster care and hope that the baby will having loving foster parents who aren't dreadfully misguided and abusive people. If I were a CPS worker I would do my utmost to take this child away permanently from the sister, never to return it again.









Stories like these make me sick. Also, I would not be on speaking terms with a sister or relative who believed in spanking. End of story. They would get an earful and then be cut off completely, no ifs ands or buts.

*Bolding mine*

Whoa, how did this mother ALLOW the friend to her hit baby? She wasn't there when it happened, she had left her child with it's father. She didn't had the babe over to this supposed friend and say take a few whacks at my baby if you feel the need. From what the OP has posted it's not even clear the mother knew the friend was over at the time.

Children get taken away from their parents all the time, it isn't pretty and it's horrible for the child. Anyone who would condone taking an infant away from it's mother because that mother has considered spanking in the future is not only being unreasonable but they are trying to punish someone for 'THOUGHT CRIME' (ie: the sister of OP is saying she will spank her child and hasn't yet....I say I'm going to wash my car: how do you KNOW for a fact that I actually will?)

It's nice when people figure out that hands are NOT for hitting before they have kids, but cutting people off and out of your life for considering something that is most unfortunately completely accepted in this society will teach them NOTHING and make you look like an extremist crazy person, which will not help their children AT ALL.

I think the OP is right for stating her position, setting firm boundaries in her home and modeling GD behavior for her sister. This way her sister may have a change of heart long before she considers her babe "big enough to be spanked."

However I WOULD call the cops if someone hit my child. But if the OP doesn't know who the friend is, she can't really do that.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lily Eve* 
I disagree. This woman's sister has already said she will spank in the future and *allowed her boyfriend's friend to hit a 5 month old.* Foster care would be the logical answer as it's already a given the baby is suffering abuse in its own home and will in the future also by the sister who agrees with spanking. With foster care, you don't know what you'll be getting. But since the home the baby is already in is abusive, it'd be much better to take a chance with foster care and hope that the baby will having loving foster parents who aren't dreadfully misguided and abusive people. If I were a CPS worker I would do my utmost to take this child away permanently from the sister, never to return it again.









Stories like these make me sick. Also, I would not be on speaking terms with a sister or relative who believed in spanking. End of story. They would get an earful and then be cut off completely, no ifs ands or buts.

*Bolding mine*

Whoa, how did this mother ALLOW the friend to her hit baby? She wasn't there when it happened, she had left her child with it's father. She didn't had the babe over to this supposed friend and say take a few whacks at my baby if you feel the need. From what the OP has posted it's not even clear the mother knew the friend was over at the time.

Anyone who would condone taking an infant away from it's mother because that mother has considered spanking in the future is not only being unreasonable but they are trying to punish someone for 'THOUGHT CRIME' (ie: the sister of OP is saying she will spank her child and hasn't yet....I say I'm going to wash my car: how do you KNOW for a fact that I actually will?)

It's nice when people figure out that hands are NOT for hitting before they have kids, but cutting people off and out of your life for considering something that is most unfortunately completely accepted in this society will teach them NOTHING and make you look like an extremist crazy person, which will not help their children AT ALL.

I think the OP is right for stating her position, setting firm boundaries in her home and modeling GD behavior for her sister. This way her sister may have a change of heart long before she considers her babe "big enough to be spanked."

However I WOULD call the cops if someone hit my child. But if the OP doesn't know who the friend is, she can't really do that. HITTING is ABUSE and SPANKING an infant of 5 months would go without question as abuse in the eyes of the law due to shaken baby syndrome.

It sounds like the mother of this baby loves her child and doesn't know how to be a mom yet. I second the SuperNanny suggestion and hope that her sis rubs off on her.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Even if the mother had allowed the spanking, I don't think foster care should be the next step. I think education and support should be.

You don't always know what you are getting with foster care either. There are abusive foster homes.


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## ShareBear (Sep 14, 2007)

I just have to say that I am very disturbed by the suggestions by several previous posters that the friend who spanked the baby should be beaten up in retribution. I assume this is just talk and not serious--that no one here would advocate violence--but in my opinion saying "She should beat that guy up for spanking the baby" is no better than saying "You should whip that kid's behind for hitting his brother," even if it's just threatening talk and not followed through with a spanking. I must say that I did not expect to hear such violent suggestions on a gentle discipline board, even if they were not serious.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

ShareBear, you're right, of course. Violence is bad, period.

But does someone who would 'spank' a five month old deserve gentle disipline? I don't think so. THey deserve to go to jail. (Bad, BAD things happen to child abusers in jail. No GD there!)


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## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
Children get taken away from their parents all the time, it isn't pretty and it's horrible for the child. Anyone who would condone taking an infant away from it's mother because that mother has considered spanking in the future is not only being unreasonable but they are trying to punish someone for 'THOUGHT CRIME' (ie: the sister of OP is saying she will spank her child and hasn't yet....I say I'm going to wash my car: how do you KNOW for a fact that I actually will?)

My sisters and I were taken away from our mother. It was the best thing that could have happened to our family. I know this isn't always the case. But if someone is being so IGNORANT as to allow their 5 month old to be spanked they need some sort of intervention and education.

And yes it is ignorant of them to only tell someone "don't do that again". Their child was assaulted. The police should be involved. It is called protecting your child. And if you don't know how to do that...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShareBear* 
I just have to say that I am very disturbed by the suggestions by several previous posters that the friend who spanked the baby should be beaten up in retribution. I assume this is just talk and not serious--that no one here would advocate violence--but in my opinion saying "She should beat that guy up for spanking the baby" is no better than saying "You should whip that kid's behind for hitting his brother," even if it's just threatening talk and not followed through with a spanking. I must say that I did not expect to hear such violent suggestions on a gentle discipline board, even if they were not serious.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Red* 
ShareBear, you're right, of course. Violence is bad, period.

But does someone who would 'spank' a five month old deserve gentle disipline? I don't think so. THey deserve to go to jail. (Bad, BAD things happen to child abusers in jail. No GD there!)

I agree! Hearing things like this makes me wonder what is really going on in someone's home. To allow something like this...

I would put money on the bet that there is a whole lot more questionable parenting going on in that household.

And you can bet I would make sure I put the hurt on someone who spanked my 5 month old. Mama bear would be out in full effect!


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