# Help Please



## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

*cant post in Parents as Partners yet*

I don't want to get into details on why, but what do you do when you have three kids, no money, no job, and no where to go, and you want to get away from your husband. It is not an emergency situation, so going to a shelter would do more harm then good, but my husband isn't going to let us stay here if he knows I want to leave, and so getting a job to keep the money or trying to get set up somewhere else isn't going to work. I just need to go straight from here to somewhere else, but obviously you can't do that without money.

Maybe there is no solution for a problem like this, but if you've been in these shoes please let me know, even if you rather do it by PM.


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## valerie mom of 4 (Jul 9, 2009)

could you go to a family member's or friend's house?


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

no family, and honestly my family is worse thn my husband. and only 1 friend who I don't know if I could go there or not, but I guess I could ask,


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## IntrovertExtrovert (Mar 2, 2008)

Could you get a job and tell your husband a different reason why you want a job? Even if you won't save as much money, when you're ready to leave you'll have a job history to show potential landlords, and maybe a kindhearted one will waive the security deposit.

How old are your kids? Depending on how old they are and how much training/skill/job experience you had pre-kids, it might take a while of working to get to the point where you're making more than your childcare costs. If you start now, you have a better chance of being at the point before you're ready to leave.

If your kids are very young and you have very little job experience or training, maybe you could take care of other people's kids in your home. It won't give you a leg-up on a rental application, but you'll be able to save more money and maybe use the experience to get a job at a preschool or daycare when you're ready to leave.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

For a period of time I had debated leaving dh (we worked on things though, so right now it's ok) and I had two young ones and no money and nowhere to go. Since he wasn't abusive etc. I had time to make a plan.

I looked into temping. Temp to hire is an easy way to find a permanent job and you can build up your skills. You can just say that you miss being able to work and really would like a job. It may raise red flags to your dh but just keep on the path that you need.

Save every.single.dime from your job. Save some money on groceries and pocket a stash. Open up your own checking account (he will never know you did that until the divorce). Find a cheap one bedroom apartment once you have a month of savings in place.

When you do divorce there will be some alimony and childcare payments to you that will help fill the gap from your employment.

Don't rush things, it is too easy for SAHM's of small kids to fall through the cracks. Have support in place as well for back-up childcare and emotional support.

Look into foodstamps until the divorce is through to help with groceries? I don't know about that, but it is something to look into.

Good luck and hugs.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IntrovertExtrovert* 
Could you get a job and tell your husband a different reason why you want a job? Even if you won't save as much money, when you're ready to leave you'll have a job history to show potential landlords, and maybe a kindhearted one will waive the security deposit.

How old are your kids? Depending on how old they are and how much training/skill/job experience you had pre-kids, it might take a while of working to get to the point where you're making more than your childcare costs. If you start now, you have a better chance of being at the point before you're ready to leave.

If your kids are very young and you have very little job experience or training, maybe you could take care of other people's kids in your home. It won't give you a leg-up on a rental application, but you'll be able to save more money and maybe use the experience to get a job at a preschool or daycare when you're ready to leave.

1) if I'm being honest I will absolutely need child support because the pay rate for what I do down here will not cover the bills for me and 3 children.
2) if I get a job he will expect the money from that job, considering once we pay for child care it would only be me making $50

My kids are 4, 3, and 1. I used to make $13 an hour, but now where I live I would only make $9. Here, its over $800 a month just for a 1 bedroom. Though, no one is saying I have to stay in the area, but I do want the kids to be able to see their dad easily, and if I don't have the money to move in town I sure don't to move out of town.

If I'm making any money, he's going to want it to help pay our bills.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
For a period of time I had debated leaving dh (we worked on things though, so right now it's ok) and I had two young ones and no money and nowhere to go. Since he wasn't abusive etc. I had time to make a plan.

I looked into temping. Temp to hire is an easy way to find a permanent job and you can build up your skills. You can just say that you miss being able to work and really would like a job. It may raise red flags to your dh but just keep on the path that you need.

Save every.single.dime from your job. Save some money on groceries and pocket a stash. Open up your own checking account (he will never know you did that until the divorce). Find a cheap one bedroom apartment once you have a month of savings in place.

When you do divorce there will be some alimony and childcare payments to you that will help fill the gap from your employment.

Don't rush things, it is too easy for SAHM's of small kids to fall through the cracks. Have support in place as well for back-up childcare and emotional support.

Look into foodstamps until the divorce is through to help with groceries? I don't know about that, but it is something to look into.

Good luck and hugs.

I know once I'm on my own I will be fine. I can get temporary assistance if I need it. Getting to that point is th hard part. He gives me a credit card for grocery shopping, so there is no cash to pocket there either..


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## Marcella_Moxley (May 6, 2009)

Well, if you are trying to be clandestine about things...

How about doing something else to make money other than a job- something you can do while he's gone all day and doesn't really "know" you are making money?
Things that come to mind are selling things on E-bay, or consignment shops, Craigslist, newspaper, ect. Consider selling plasma or White blood cells as well.

"Most" people are clutterbugs- they have tons of stuff laying around that can be sold- even if it's only for a few bucks. It's the letting go and the organizing of said stuff that can be hard. Act like you are decluttering and taking stuff to goodwill when you are in fact selling it instead. Sell baby swings, baby clothes, - figure out what you can make do without- and sell if. Like a changing table, most people can change diapers on the floor- sell yours. A 1 year old can sleep in a toddler bed or on a mattress on the floor. Tell hubby that 1 year old is climbing the crib and you are afraid he will fall and hurt himself and you want to donate it or give it to a friend. Sell the crib. Keep the dough.

Other things you may or may not be able to do to "make" money without hubby knowing are upping your deductible on car insurance, and homeowners insurance, or consolidating credit card debt into one account, canceling subscriptions to gyms, magazines, and other services that he won't miss, and you pocket what you save on these. For example, call waiting on my phone, I have it, but DH would never notice if I canceled it and thus paid less on the phone bill -This depends on who pays bills in the house though.

The best way to handle this is figure out, before you leave, how much money you will need- go as far as finding an apartment, and saving the money for first month's rent, deposit, ect before you leave. Also, go to the public library computers ( no record of your activity) and research income requirements and paperwork required to apply for food stamps, WIC and other such assistance.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
I know once I'm on my own I will be fine. I can get temporary assistance if I need it. Getting to that point is th hard part. He gives me a credit card for grocery shopping, so there is no cash to pocket there either..

My grocery store is supposed to return your money however you paid when you return something. But they always give me cash instead of putting it back on my credit card. Possibly they would be more careful with a bigger ticket item but that's what they do at my Giant with $5 and $10 dollar purchases.

I guess it is probably debit cards, not credit cards, where I see people asking to get charged a greater amount and get cash back...

Good luck figuring things out.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marcella_Moxley* 
Well, if you are trying to be clandestine about things...

How about doing something else to make money other than a job- something you can do while he's gone all day and doesn't really "know" you are making money?
Things that come to mind are selling things on E-bay, or consignment shops, Craigslist, newspaper, ect. Consider selling plasma or White blood cells as well.

"Most" people are clutterbugs- they have tons of stuff laying around that can be sold- even if it's only for a few bucks. It's the letting go and the organizing of said stuff that can be hard. Act like you are decluttering and taking stuff to goodwill when you are in fact selling it instead. Sell baby swings, baby clothes, - figure out what you can make do without- and sell if. Like a changing table, most people can change diapers on the floor- sell yours. A 1 year old can sleep in a toddler bed or on a mattress on the floor. Tell hubby that 1 year old is climbing the crib and you are afraid he will fall and hurt himself and you want to donate it or give it to a friend. Sell the crib. Keep the dough.

Other things you may or may not be able to do to "make" money without hubby knowing are upping your deductible on car insurance, and homeowners insurance, or consolidating credit card debt into one account, canceling subscriptions to gyms, magazines, and other services that he won't miss, and you pocket what you save on these. For example, call waiting on my phone, I have it, but DH would never notice if I canceled it and thus paid less on the phone bill -This depends on who pays bills in the house though.

The best way to handle this is figure out, before you leave, how much money you will need- go as far as finding an apartment, and saving the money for first month's rent, deposit, ect before you leave. Also, go to the public library computers ( no record of your activity) and research income requirements and paperwork required to apply for food stamps, WIC and other such assistance.

That might work, but my husband works from home









I don't have a car, my husband does all the bill paying, my name isn't even on our bank account. I can research from home no problem, I have my own computer. I will figure out how much I need, then I'll just have to find a way to come up with the cash. Maybe somehow I could borrow some from family... but they are all usually broke.


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

online revenue possibilities include article writing for Helium.com, mechanical turk (mturk.com) or adsense through blogspot. All of these I have toyed with and they are slow revenue builders unless you can dedicate the time... but you could have the earnings deposited to paypal or a bank account of your own which you could set up online.... and all notices could come to you through an email account.


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Call a local shelter and talk to them. You don't have to actually go there, from what I understand you can talk to them about your options and see what info they can give you. Also, here's a link on safety planning and steps you can take while you're still living with your spouse.

http://www.ndvh.org/get-help/safety-planning/


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

thanks so much for all the great advice









Ideally, we could work out our problems, but its been years and the problems keeping coming back and its worse every time.


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## DianeMarie (Jul 7, 2009)

Maybe you could look in the paper or online for someone who is looking for a roommate. Perhaps you could borrow the money for the first month and then get a job or have one lined up by the time you move. It would certainly be easier to share rent than to pay it all by yourself----and, furniture and cooking supplies and things would most likely would already be there, except a bed for you and your kids.

You don't want to get into details, BUT----plotting and planning and sneaking away and just not being there one day when he shows up isn't a good thing to do, especially with 3 children. Unless you can prove that he is abusive to you or the children and is a danger to you or them, it is just a BAD IDEA. He can allege that you kidnapped them. If "things" have been bad for a while, and they don't get better, then he must know it too. "Things" in a marriage usually are not bad for just one party----both people are usually miserable and want out or want to work on things. Your husband CAN'T kick you out if you have been living there legally with him and the kids. Just upping and leaving is not a good thing to do, IMHO. If things are THAT bad, and you are THAT unhappy, he obviously must know. And, if you sneak away and leave one day without any notice, he's is going to be PISSED, and it won't make things easy for you when it comes time to talk about temporary child support or alimony. And, once you "leave", do expect that the locks will be changed and you won't be able to get back in. He can't "kick you out", but if you leave, he can certainly "keep you out". It is always my policy that things are always better if they are talked out, no matter what the end result is.

Open a bank account in your name only----or better yet, if you can open a bank account under a family member or friend that you can trust, do that. This way---he has no claim to any of the money in it. And, remember---just because your name is not on anything (the house, bank accounts, etc.) doesn't mean that you are not entitled to any of it in a divorce. I don't know what state you live in, but in *most*(some being more "liberal" than others), you are legally entitled to up to half, sometimes more, of whatever income has been generated and saved during the marriage; you are legally entitled to half of what the house is worth if it was purchased after your marriage (no matter whose name it is in) and if it was your husband's house before you got married, you are entitled to at least 50% of the equity that the house has gotten since you got married; you are legally entitled to half of what the car is worth----pretty much, anything and everything that you and your husband have, you are legally entitled to half of (sometimes more, depending on the state you live in). Your work in the home/household---although, perhaps, your husband does not appreciate it or think it is worth much---is looked on in a court of law as an "occupation", and your "contribution" to the household is definitely taken into consideration in a divorce proceeding. Men hate it---but, that's what happens. I read your other posts, and you were pretty clear that you do everything in the house and your husband works at home. Taking care of a house and 3 children is quite a responsible "job", and in the "real world", it would garner a very sizable salary!!

I guess I shouldn't be asking this, but---why, and more importantly, HOW, have you gone so long without a bank account of your own? I understand you don't have a job so you wouldn't have any income to deposit into it......but, do you get an "allowance" to spend? You mentioned having a credit card for groceries----can you use that credit card to do things that you want to do? How have you gone so long without your own car, bank account---it sounds like you have allowed him to control you for a good many years. It is time to take back the control of your own life. And, just MAYBE if you talked to your husband about this, you would actually be able to get some of your independence back and feel better about yourself by having a job.

In one way----you are actually very lucky in that you get to stay home with your kids and your husband makes the money to support the family--you must realize that if and when you leave, you will have to work and put your kids in some sort of daycare when you are working, and you are STILL going to have to do everything in the house!! Your time with your children will be greatly reduced, and if your husband wants to be a PIA, he can give you a REALLY hard time as far as child support and alimony goes----and he could fight tooth and nail that you should not get any alimony because you are young enough and able bodied to get a job so he should not have to support you. I don't know what he does, but I get the feeling that all the bills are paid for and you don't need/ want for anything, even though you don't have your own car or bank account or anything. Have you ever talked to him about having your own checking account and putting some money in it every week or month--you know, "mad money"? Or, have you ever talked to him about getting a job? You mentioned that you worked before.......maybe you could work again and make your own money. It is only fair that if you were working that you contribute toward the household expenses....you would expect it if he worked that he would contribute to the expenses, so it is the same for you...but, he can't "make" you do anything, and he certainly can't steal your money. If you had a job, you could have direct deposit and he wouldn't be exposed to how much you make or anything. He would have *NO* control over that money whatsoever. But, it sounds like he has a whole lot of control over you, for whatever reason that may be.

Without any "resources", like family or friends that can help you, you are pretty much left to go to a shelter---and, if you can avoid that, you probably should. Like I said---you haven't given much information on the why's and how's, so it is hard to give "advice"...........if you are just generally unhappy in the marriage, then chances are, he is too. Maybe he is afraid to talk to you about it--I don't know. For the most part, just sneaking around and all of a sudden leaving is a pretty lousy thing to do---and, your ability to qualify for any "emergency" assistance would probably be slim unless he is abusing you or the children. I don't think that just because you were unhappy and felt like leaving would qualify as an "emergency". However--abuse does.

It's hard to answer when you don't want to give an "explanation" about your siituation........however, I think everybody on here would agree with me that if he is abusing you or any of your 3 children, you have to get out of there IMMEDIATELY, no matter what----and staying with your parents or a friend or even a shelter is better than enduring any sort of abuse from ANYONE!!


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 

You don't want to get into details, BUT----plotting and planning and sneaking away and just not being there one day when he shows up isn't a good thing to do, especially with 3 children.

dont worry, that was never part of the plan. I just don't want to tell him we are splitting up without having the money to leave if he says "fine then get out" (which he has said before and I ended up staying because I'm not going to take the kids to the streets obviously) He would have no desire to keep the kids, this I know, unless it was to spite me, but honestly I don't think he would even do that because i doubt spiting me would be worth the amount of money he would have to pay to have someone take care of them while he works and the amount of diapers he would have to change and just the whole "parent thing" that he isn't doing right now.

Quote:

I guess I shouldn't be asking this, but---why, and more importantly, HOW, have you gone so long without a bank account of your own?
About 5 years ago, I overdrew like $30-$40 from the bank. I was broke and didn't get to pay it back until two months later. By then they had reported me to check systems or something like that (which by the way, they are not supposed to do in such short time over such a short amount of money) But I paid it back and still I have to wait 7 years from that time before they will let me open up an account, which is again, NOT how its supposed to be done according to the laws I looked up, but I'm not exactly going to pay to hire a lawyer for it, it's never been a big deal... but I can get a friend to open an account for me I think, like you suggested if I can get some money.

Quote:

I understand you don't have a job so you wouldn't have any income to deposit into it......but, do you get an "allowance" to spend?
he lends me the card for groceries, then I give it back. If I want something, I ask for it and he buys it for me. Sometimes he gives me money to go to lunch or something with my friend, and my friend usually ends up paying, and then I give the money back. I could start hanging onto the money - but this only happens like less than once a month because for me to go he has to watch the kids and it always causes a fight because he doesn't like to.

Quote:

In one way----you are actually very lucky in that you get to stay home with your kids and your husband makes the money to support the family--you must realize that if and when you leave, you will have to work and put your kids in some sort of daycare when you are working, and you are STILL going to have to do everything in the house!! Your time with your children will be greatly reduced, and if your husband wants to be a PIA, he can give you a REALLY hard time as far as child support and alimony goes----and he could fight tooth and nail that you should not get any alimony because you are young enough and able bodied to get a job so he should not have to support you. I don't know what he does, but I get the feeling that all the bills are paid for and you don't need/ want for anything, even though you don't have your own car or bank account or anything.
I know you are right, but I feel like thats the ONLY reason Ive been staying with him at this point, and that is not fair to anyone involved. See to him, he realizes he does these things and thinks that is "enough". But he talks down to me, he acts completely uninterested in me and the children, and he is rude to the kids if I ask him for help, its like he is mad at me so he is mean to them so that I wont ask him for help again. And to be honest, I very rarely ask him for help. Once a week I ask him to help so I can take a nap on one of his 3 days off. Today he took a nap and told me to wake him up in 45 minutes. I woke him up an hour later. We were outside for at least half that time. When we came in I needed his help and it had been time to wake him up anyway. He was SUPER mad, walked into the room, took a toy my son was playing with in the living room (he says the toy annoys him) and tossed it into the playroom. It wasn't violent, but he did it because he was mad I woke him up (he said he never fell asleep because we were too loud - but we had been outside most of the time) and when he threw the toy it broke the window.







: It was just the last drop. My son walks around saying "daddy scare me daddy scare me" and "daddy broke the window. no throw daddy." He was once a wonderful husband and father. I don't know what happened, I feel like he doesn't even care to try anymore. Don't get me wrong I know he loves our kids, thats why he works so much. I know work stresses him out. I get stressed out too. I don't think either of us are especially nice to each other lately, but I'm tired of turning the other cheek. Today he told me he needs me to either be nice to him, leave him alone, or for our son to stop being retarded







:







:







: I can't tell you how much that hurt and how angry it made me, as you can imagine. I told him NO I can't do that for you, that I was NOT willing to be his emotional punching bag and that NO I am not going to treat you with respect when you talk to me the way you do. I can't explain it but he is just very argumentative even when we are agreeing?? He's always on edge, I'm afraid to ask him anything because I don't want to fight. And at this point, there are *no* good moments to balance all this out. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, it's just true. He has no interest in me in ANY way, he is not nice to me, he is not nice to the kids. Where is the man I married? Where is the man who I used to stand smiling, watching him play with the kids, or snuggle with them on the couch watching a movie. Who the heck is this guy sorry im just so upset talking about it even though I didnt want to, I just... I dont want it to sound worse then it is, but it's still bad. I feel like it sounds worse on paper.

Ideally I would like this to work. I would like to go to counseling but he wont go. Or he doesn't have time. It's just a lot. I feel like I've put up with a lot over the years. I'm just at my breaking point. I stayed with him even after he cheated on me with someone who was supposed to be a friend ON MY SONS FIRST BIRTHDAY none the less. I stayed with him through times where he was heavy into alcohol - peeing in dresser drawers and closets when he was drunk, not coming home until 9 or 10 the next morning and missing work sometimes. God, I should have left THEN. But I stayed because there were good times too, and because I knew he loved me, and because when things got bad he tried to change or he got better. But this, this I can't do. I can't be with someone who I can't even trust loves me or my children. Part of me knows he does, but then I wonder if it's just because it would hurt to much to know otherwise? The kids don't even want to be around him much anymore, not that he makes any effort to be around them anyway. Maybe I'm dreaming, but part of me hopes if me and the kids leave that when he visits with them that he will make the most of it, like they might get more out of his father if we lived apart then together. I've even considered trying to stay married, just living separately. IDK anymore...


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

From what you have described, I would advise you to go to a shelter. Now.

Your husband cannot throw you out on the street just because tell him you want out of the marriage. The fact that you believe he will/can actually do this says a lot about how intimidated you are. Call a shelter and get out.


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

Go to a shelter. Get counseling. Get your kids out of there. This is not a healthy situation for you or them! I speak from a place of love. I left my first husband because he was abusive. I did not want to get a divorce but he was never going to change. I left, and I left all my furniture, things I had worked hard for before I married him..everything but my clothes and photo albums stayed. I did not tell him I was divorcing him. I told him I was going for a trip to see my mom, out of state. And then I called him when I got there and told him I wasn't coming back. Granted we did not have children. But my advice to you is to just leave, as quickly as you can. Call the shelter, the police can even come and escort you in an unmarked vehicle..or someone from the shelter. You wont have to do it alone. Just go. You deserve better and your children deserve better. You know it. So do it.


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## trinity6232000 (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 
*In one way----you are actually very lucky in that you get to stay home with your kids and your husband makes the money to support the family--you must realize that if and when you leave, you will have to work and put your kids in some sort of daycare when you are working, and you are STILL going to have to do everything in the house!!* Your time with your children will be greatly reduced, and if your husband wants to be a PIA, he can give you a REALLY hard time as far as child support and alimony goes----and he could fight tooth and nail that you should not get any alimony because you are young enough and able bodied to get a job so he should not have to support you.

(bolding mine)

As a single parent, yeah I do everything on my own, and most days it's overwhelming. BUT there is no price for being in control of your own life. In a good loving relationship a woman would never be told "fine then get out". I'm sorry that's not being "lucky" that's being controlled.

Last month I had shut off notices for all my utilities, and was close to being evicted, and I still feel blessed that I'm on my own.

Talk to a shelter, even thought your not in a physically abusive relationship they will be able to tell you what you can do to get on your own feet. They might be able to help you make a plan.

Being kept as a SAHM sometimes is made into a trap, and nobody is lucky to be trapped. Mama you deserve to be valued, if your husband can't, then you will have to do it for yourself.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

mama

I've just PMed you. It's tough, it's really tough. In your shoes, if you know in your heart it's time to go, then I don't think taking time to build an exit plan is an option for you. I think that the control that he is exerting, financially and physically, is such that your best option is the shelter and a lawyer. Are you in a joint property state, btw?

Whilst you do this, however, I'd talk to different banks. After five years, I would anticipate that an alternative bank would give you a basic account, which allows money to be paid in and out and an ATM card. That's all you need.


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## Cativari (Mar 26, 2007)

While you said you weren't being abused(physically) there are other kinds of abuse. Mental, emotional, financial, sexual, verbal . It sounds to me you ARE at the very least being emotionally, and financially taken advatage of. I view these kinds of abuse just as bad as physical and you need to get out. Please take your kids and yourself to a shelter.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

I have just heard such horror stories about shelters, I really don't feel that is the best option for me. I will talk to them though, and look into my options. Not to mention, he is so UNINVOLVED and uninterested that I rather just deal with his crap for 5 or 10 minutes a day then risk the effect a shelter would have on my kids.

I tried talking to him about it last night - not about leaving just about our problems- and he seemed really upset and said he was trying and I told him that I've seen him try before. Really all he did was make excuses, some of which involved blaming me. He says he does want to spend time with the family but can't figure out how. I don't know whats wrong with him, really. Thanks for all the kind words and support.

We'll see what he is like today, I am going to talk to him about working. I asked my friend if i could stay with her for a bit if I needed, which I didn't want to, but she said yea for a little while. Thanks again.


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## Unconventional1 (Apr 3, 2006)

Yikes momma!

If you want something he buys it for you???? He gives you a credit card to use then you have to give it back????

I am a SAHM and my husband is the money provider, but we each get a monthly budget of spending money for ourselves. He values that I work hard every day.

You are definitely in an abusive relationship. Maybe you could find another momma in a similar situation needing a roommate? I have seen ads in craigslist like this before. They usually trade childcare when working opposite shifts.

Good luck-


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## Cativari (Mar 26, 2007)

Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
I have just heard such horror stories about shelters, I really don't feel that is the best option for me. I will talk to them though, and look into my options. Not to mention, he is so UNINVOLVED and uninterested that I rather just deal with his crap for 5 or 10 minutes a day then risk the effect a shelter would have on my kids.

I tried talking to him about it last night - not about leaving just about our problems- and he seemed really upset and said he was trying and I told him that I've seen him try before. Really all he did was make excuses, some of which involved blaming me. He says he does want to spend time with the family but can't figure out how. I don't know whats wrong with him, really. Thanks for all the kind words and support.

We'll see what he is like today, I am going to talk to him about working. I asked my friend if i could stay with her for a bit if I needed, which I didn't want to, but she said yea for a little while. Thanks again.

A shelter saved my life. I didn't stay there, they got me in touch with a lawyer who helped me get a restraining order against my husband and an occupation order which required him to leave the house. They provided play therapy for my sons, a listening ear for me, and so much besides. Please don't make assumptions, give them a chance.

OK, if that's out what happens if you tell him you're getting a job because you want some financial independence?


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cativari* 
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?


I wonder the same thing. OP mentions that things weren't always like this and there had been good times.

Were the times really "good" and something changed? If so, maybe there are mental health issues going on.

Or were those times just better when compared to the current situation? Which leads me to...

OP also mentions her husband's drinking. I would consider peeing in drawers to qaulify as a serious alcohol problem.

Is he still drinking or did he stop? Addiction comes along with lots of undesirable behaviors and in my experience, abuse and control are two biggies.

If he never addressed his other issues, quitting drinking solves very little and in a way, may magnify other issues that formerly hovered below the surface.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cativari* 
Playing devil's advocate here for a moment... Could it be that your DH is depressed or has another issue of the like going on? And from his prepective he really is trying?

I really think so, but I don't know what to do if he wont get help for it?? I don't even know that divorce is the answer, but I think we need time apart until he can get himself back to normal.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
A shelter saved my life. I didn't stay there, they got me in touch with a lawyer who helped me get a restraining order against my husband and an occupation order which required him to leave the house. They provided play therapy for my sons, a listening ear for me, and so much besides. Please don't make assumptions, give them a chance.

OK, if that's out what happens if you tell him you're getting a job because you want some financial independence?

It's not the shelter I'm worried about, its the other people staying there. I have no apprehensions about calling them, I just really don't think that going there is better for my children. If I thought it was, I'd go there for sure. If it were just me, I'd probably just up and go, but I have to do what I know is best for them, which makes the issue harder.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Caneel* 
I wonder the same thing. OP mentions that things weren't always like this and there had been good times.

Were the times really "good" and something changed? If so, maybe there are mental health issues going on.

There were REALLY good times. He has also played a huge role in healing me from my past. This is not the man I married right now. I do think he is depressed or something. Also he hasn't been eating well and his weight it really up, and he's really tired all the time... so I think depression is a possibility.

Quote:

OP also mentions her husband's drinking. I would consider peeing in drawers to qaulify as a serious alcohol problem.

Is he still drinking or did he stop? Addiction comes along with lots of undesirable behaviors and in my experience, abuse and control are two biggies.
He doesn't drink anymore. Sometimes he has the occasional drink with me, but honestly I drink more then he does and he's always very pleasant when he drinks. We drink at home.. it was only when he went out drinking that he got carried away. At the time he had the drinking problem he was really depressed too. And I haven't been a perfect angel to him either, after what happened with my friend and him (which was at the same time as his drinking problem) I was really hurt and I was hurtful back towards him. We got through it, he doesn't drink anymore, but it's definitely not a fully healed situation on my part I must admit. But, anyway, he did stop drinking and it's been about 3 years since that all occurred, so I'm pretty confident it's in the past. his dad is an alcoholic and I know he doesn't want to be like that.

Quote:

If he never addressed his other issues, quitting drinking solves very little and in a way, may magnify other issues that formerly hovered below the surface.
this could be it. I know this sounds crazy, but I think he has post partum depression. He always is at his worst after we have a baby...


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
Ideally, we could work out our problems, but its been years and the problems keeping coming back and its worse every time.

I have read the whole thread. I think your name should be on the checking account and the house, but other than that this is within the range of normal (crummy, bummer situation end but still) for a family with three kids so close in age and so young on one income. Not good, things need to be worked on, but not anywhere NEAR divorce him time IMO. If you didn't have kids, sure - walk anytime you want. But when you make babies, I think you have a responsibility to work a lot harder to get through the hard times. And raising a 4, 3 and 1 year old - that is tough.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
From what you have described, I would advise you to go to a shelter. Now.

It is so interesting how our personal experiences affect our perception. I read the same words in this thread and thought "definitely can work this out" and someone else reads the same words and thinks "shelter. Now." He threw a toy (she admits not violently; the window breaking was an accident). What else are we basing the shelter rec on?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
There were REALLY good times. He has also played a huge role in healing me from my past. This is not the man I married right now. I do think he is depressed or something. Also he hasn't been eating well and his weight it really up, and he's really tired all the time... so I think depression is a possibility.

He doesn't drink anymore. Sometimes he has the occasional drink with me, but honestly I drink more then he does and he's always very pleasant when he drinks. We drink at home. At the time he had the drinking problem he was really depressed too. And I haven't been a perfect angel to him either, after what happened with my friend and him (which was at the same time as his drinking problem) I was really hurt and I was hurtful back towards him. We got through it, he doesn't drink anymore, but it's definitely not a fully healed situation on my part I must admit. But, anyway, he did stop drinking and it's been about 3 years since that all occurred, so I'm pretty confident it's in the past.

I know this sounds crazy, but I think he has post partum depression. He always is at his worst after we have a baby...

This is the first thing I thought (not PPD but hard after another baby). Three kids so close together is a LOT of stress. He is solely responsible for keeping a roof over your heads. I'd assume you are pretty busy taking care of kids, so no time for each other. You admit you are not fully healed from his cheating (which clearly is wrong on his part - but again, not shelter now worthy IMO).

In your first posts, it sounds like you'd rather be right than happy. You said you weren't going to be nice to him if he isn't nice to you. Someone has to be nice first. I know it is hard when you are mad at him. I've been where you are - really. It can turn around; it really can.


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## DianeMarie (Jul 7, 2009)

Today he told me he needs me to either be nice to him, *leave him alone*, or for our son to stop being retarded

Okay---tell him that by leaving, and taking the kids with you, that you are "leaving him alone", exactly what he wants. He can't argue with that, can he?

In listening to all of this, I can't help but wonder if he is clinically depressed. The history of alcohol abuse, his increasingly aggravated behavior and disrespect toward you are all signs of depression. (Did he go to rehab, or AA, or did he just stop drinking? If you don't know what a "dry drunk" is, Google it. You can quit drinking, but if you don't deal with the underlying issues that made you drink in the first place, the only thing you did was stop drinking---but you're still a miserable person and nothing has changed.) You say that you married a wonderful man, and what happened to him? Perhaps he is totally stressed out with having to work so much and not being able to do anything he likes to do either. Maybe the finances are bad, and since you don't pay bills or balance the checkbook you don't know about it. You are seeing things from your side of the fence---things may be completely different on his side of the fence. I don't know how long you have been married, but there is truth to things like the "7 year itch"---not that I condone having affairs or anything else---but, it seems that after a certain amount of time both parties become unhappy and unsatisfied with their relationship and marriage, especially when kids come along. When a man is no longer a woman's priority, and suddenly children are, it can make them act very bizarre. Also, when a woman loses her identity and a mother is all she is, and she "loses" her sexuality and her feeling of being "productive" in society, it affects her too---I have seen this A LOT with SAHM. A relationship takes effort and work---that infatuation and passion you had when you first met and got married can't last without some work on both sides. And, as much as we hate it, relationships do change. Maybe he is suffering from major stressors too, and you just don't know about it. Perhaps his coping mechanisms just aren't there and he needs some help---we all need help sometimes. And, as much as I hate to say this---how are you acting in the marriage? Are you kind? Are you patient? You say that you "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't mean that you are being the person that you want him to be, and often we don't see in ourselves what other people see. It sounds like he is very unhappy too--and you need to find out WHY he is miserable. Maybe he is uncomfortable confronting you about something. Maybe he is embarrassed about something. Who knows? There are all kinds of reason that people are unhappy.

HOWEVER---the other things, like having complete control over the money, "lending" you the credit card for groceries, you having to "ask" him for something and then having him buy it for you.......this is a VERY controlling situation, and also a form of abuse. Why should you have to ask him for ANYTHING, unless it is a major purchase like a car or furniture or something? You have to "ask" him to buy you underwear or bras? Makeup? Shoes? These are the very things that a woman needs "mad money" for!! What about stuff for the kids? Do you have to "ask" him to buy clothes and shoes for the kids? I don't know how you do it---I could NEVER live like that. Good Lord---I would freak out, as a matter of fact. NO MAN is going to tell me that I can't buy a new pair of shoes or a tube of mascara!! And, I am certainly not going to ASK him if I can.

I suspect you have "marred" credit......however, if that incident of the bank overdraft happened 5 years ago, you should be able to open a checking account now. Some banks require that you open savings and checking accounts, but 5 years should be enough time. Maybe not for the "big" banks, but there are smaller, regional banks that are not as tough as the "big" banks. There are also other ways to open an account---there are VISA cards that are "secured" that you can open up online. You might bot be able to pay rent with it, but it can act like a checking account if you want to buy something. If you can find one that reports to the 3 major credit bureaus, you can begin re-building your own credit. Having him controlling the credit cards and money is not going to help you build your own credit.

If he really does love you , and wants to make it work and wants to "try", then ask him to help you start building your own credit profile. It has ALWAYS been my own belief that even if you are happily married, in a stable relationship or whatever, you should always maintain your own "independence"---have your own bank accounts, maintain a good credit profile, be able to manage your own "money", whether that be money you make from working or just your own "mad money". You need to maintain some sort of financial independence to feel good about yourself---having someone else controlling every penny you spend is not a good way to live (unless you are completely out of control with money and can't go out with any money in your pocket or else you spend it, and usually on stupid stuff, and then it might be a good idea to have someone "monitoring" the spending). I see women do this pretty often---they leave the financial stuff to their husband, thinking that it is one less stress they have to deal with. However---if you ever have to leave for whatever reason, you are suddenly in a bind with no money or credit cards or any ability to "get away". And, your husband knows you have no money and can't go anywhere. Maybe that is his way of "holding on" to you. And, I don't have any idea what your sexual life is like, and frankly it is none of my business, but think about how he is when it comes to that----and you will quickly be able to see if he is just "controlling" you and manipulating you for his benefit. If it were me, I know that I wouldn't be so willing to have sex with my partner if he was rude and disrespectful to me, mean to my kids or just generally an a**hole all the time. That doesn't make me want to be with someone, and claims of "I love you, I'll try harder, I was just in a bad mood" only go so far and can only be used so many times in the bedroom for him to get what he wants. That kind of stuff doesn't fly with me. However---you need to re-gain some of who you "are", and not be "controlled" and have your identity defined by your husband and your kids.

And, from what I have read, you have "threatened" to leave before---and his "fine, get out" response was based on the fact that he knows he controls the finances and he knows you don't have the means to "get out". Plus---a response like that I assume came during or after a fight. Discussing splitting up is usually one that should be done with a level head---or as level a head as you can have when you are talking about separating, not yelling at one another and threatening to leave and then having the other person yelling "GET OUT"..........that never results in a good situation.

Furthermore (and I am SOO sorry that this has turned out to be such a long-winded post), waiting to see what he is going to be like "today" or "tomorrow" is not the way to live your life either. You want to be able to count on what he is going to be like 20 years from now. Everybody has bad days, too. But--waiting and anticipating what his mood is going to be like is stress inducing in and of itself------I lived with something like that in a relationship. You should not have to wonder what his mood will be on any given day, if he is going to wake up pissed off, sad, happy, whatever.

If you are so miserable that you think there is no hope whatsoever, then the only thing to do is discuss a separation with him---with level heads. Discuss the how's and why's. Talk about WHY you want to leave, and let him say his part too. Maybe if you sit him down and tell him that you want to leave will induce him to talk, because he will be up against the wall, so to speak. And, don't let him say "I'll try". "I'll try" is a lame copout---what is he going to "try" to do, exactly? You need to lay down EXACTLY what you want changed and what you want help with. You need to tell him EXACTLY what behaviors of his make you want to leave him and what behaviors you ABSOLUTELY will not tolerate. You need to tell him what YOU need help with--you posted about "marital pet peeves"---so, nothing speaks faster than not having clothes to wear because the clothes did not get into the hamper. Your job is not to pick his clothes up off the floor, his job is to make sure he gets his dirty clothes into the hamper. Your job is not turning his clothes right-side-in, that is his job to make sure his clothes are put on the right way and not backwards. NOTHING speaks louder than actions. Acting like a maid is not your job either. Being a SAHM to 3 young children is a lot of work---you don't need a husband that is a child too. My policy is that I say something once, and if he doesn't listen, I tell him once more in a more forceful way. After that, if the behavior doesn't change, then MY behavior changes!! No more picking his clothes up off the floor to wash them--they stay on the floor, and when he has no more clean clothes to wear then he will put them in the hamper--and when he asks why he doesn't have clean clothes, then you say "Well, there were no dirty clothes in the hamper to wash". When he gets sick of turning his clothes from inside out to the right way, he will learn to not put them in the hamper inside out.

He needs to get to the bottom of why he is so unhappy and he needs to deal with it and cope with it in healthy manner, whether that means counseling, seeing a psychiatrist, whatever. Having 3 young children is tough--it is tough on a marriage, it is tough on the people themselves, it is it's own stress. But one thing is for sure---you are not his whipping post, and he has no right to take his misery out on you. AND YOU NEED TO BE STRAIGHT WITH HIM AND TELL HIM THIS FLAT OUT. But, you can't just tell him---your actions need to support your statements. Set up something where you can stay with a friend, and when he starts his crap, pick yourself up, pick your kids up, pack a bag with clothes and whatever the kids need (or have one already pre-packed so you don't waste time), take the car keys and go to your friend's house. Don't say anything like "I'm leaving" or anything like that. Just get up and go. When you don't come back to make him dinner, and then don't come back at night, then perhaps that will make him think about what he did to force you to leave, and your statements will now have actions to back them up.

Again. I'm sorry this is so long, but it's hard to make things quick sometimes (and I am pretty long-winded anyway.......LOL)


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks so much Kirsten I appreciate your kind words. It's not that I never try being nice. I try but after a few weeks I just am at my wits end. I KNOW he has to be stressed, his work has been so slow (hes commission) that we've spent $5000 in savings in the last 2 months to cover what he hasnt been making towards bills. And then one of our cars got repod. And honestly, he's never been a "kid person" though he loves our kids, he just doesn't enjoy hanging out with them, and he really struggles with our oldest's special needs, which is hard on me too, but I'm also a more patient person than him, I am around the kids all the time so I know the best way to work with them, and I like all kids, even ones that aren't mine.

Sometimes I know I give him a hard time, but it's kind of tough because its like if he's going to make things harder to try to get me not to ask for his help, I rather he just say no. At the same time, then he wouldn't help me at all, which also bothers me, but that just brings me back to square one where I don't need help if its actually more a hinderance.

To make matters work, he is going to have to go back to working more days to make up for our income problems.

The thing is, I need him to see me as someone he can talk to about things, not someone he can dump his emotions on. He keeps everything to himself and shows his stress by how he treats me instead of talking to me. I think he is jsut trying to be strong and not stress me out by talking about the problems, but at the same time, I rather be stressed about that than upset when he takes it out on me.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 
(Did he go to rehab, or AA, or did he just stop drinking? If you don't know what a "dry drunk" is, Google it. You can quit drinking, but if you don't deal with the underlying issues that made you drink in the first place, the only thing you did was stop drinking---but you're still a miserable person and nothing has changed.)

I'll look into that, thanks!

Also, when a woman loses her identity and a mother is all she is, and she "loses" her sexuality and her feeling of being "productive" in society, it affects her too---I have seen this A LOT with SAHM. [/quote]
As for sex - I have no decrease in sex drive since becoming a mother. He is the one who never wants to do it anymore. I have other things I work on too, while it took me a while, I have found myself again as a person other than "mom"

Quote:

And, as much as I hate to say this---how are you acting in the marriage? Are you kind? Are you patient? You say that you "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't mean that you are being the person that you want him to be, and often we don't see in ourselves what other people see. It sounds like he is very unhappy too--and you need to find out WHY he is miserable. Maybe he is uncomfortable confronting you about something. Maybe he is embarrassed about something. Who knows? There are all kinds of reason that people are unhappy.
you are right!

Quote:

HOWEVER---the other things, like having complete control over the money, "lending" you the credit card for groceries, you having to "ask" him for something and then having him buy it for you.......this is a VERY controlling situation, and also a form of abuse. Why should you have to ask him for ANYTHING, unless it is a major purchase like a car or furniture or something? You have to "ask" him to buy you underwear or bras? Makeup? Shoes? These are the very things that a woman needs "mad money" for!! What about stuff for the kids? Do you have to "ask" him to buy clothes and shoes for the kids? I don't know how you do it---I could NEVER live like that. Good Lord---I would freak out, as a matter of fact. NO MAN is going to tell me that I can't buy a new pair of shoes or a tube of mascara!! And, I am certainly not going to ASK him if I can.
one of our past problems, which was my fault, is an addiction to shopping. I get everything I want in the end as far as "stuff" goes, so I don't complain, but he likes to know what and have me wait a while before buying it so my spending doesn't get out of control. Serious shopping problem here, and not talking about the kind that comes with the 'x' chromosome.

Quote:

I have thought about telling him that I think we would both feel better if I had the money to leave. Because then he would know I stay because I want to. But at the same time I dont want him to treat me better just because he knows I could leave if I wanted to. I want him to treat me better because he wants to. I don't want to say "hey do this this and this and I'll feel better" maybe im being silly, but I just feel like the things I want him to do are the things that only mean something if I dont have to tell him to do them...

Quote:

And, from what I have read, you have "threatened" to leave before---and his "fine, get out" response was based on the fact that he knows he controls the finances and he knows you don't have the means to "get out". Plus---a response like that I assume came during or after a fight. Discussing splitting up is usually one that should be done with a level head---or as level a head as you can have when you are talking about separating, not yelling at one another and threatening to leave and then having the other person yelling "GET OUT"..........that never results in a good situation.
yep. we have also separated once before, but that wasn't his fault or because of anything he was doing at the time.

He tells me I don't do anything for him and I've thought of showing him what nothing would look like, but I worry that would result in then him not doing anything for me, and I know he does a lot for me. I don't want to turn it into some stubborn battle thing...
But one thing is for sure---you are not his whipping post, and he has no right to take his misery out on you. AND YOU NEED TO BE STRAIGHT WITH HIM AND TELL HIM THIS FLAT OUT.
I've sad this, but I'm having a hard time showing him...

Thanks for taking the time, your words meant a lot to me


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
It is so interesting how our personal experiences affect our perception. I read the same words in this thread and thought "definitely can work this out" and someone else reads the same words and thinks "shelter. Now." He threw a toy (she admits not violently; the window breaking was an accident). What else are we basing the shelter rec on?

I am basing the shelter recommendation on the fact that the OP is afraid to tell her husband she wants to leave because he will throw her out on the street.

He is not entitled to do this. But she believes he can and will. To me this indicates a level of intimidation on her part that is completely unhealthy. (Not to mention the fact that he does not allow her financial independence).


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.

Oh, I wasn't debating, just clarifying to Kirsten.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
just no debate please. I understand why some of you recommend shelter and why some dont. we all don't have to agree, its good for me to hear both sides.

Couples therapy really probably should be your first step. I do realize that is easier said than done...


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## amis2girls (Mar 2, 2005)

It sounds familiar and it's not easy


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## Cativari (Mar 26, 2007)

The more I read the more it looks (at least to me) the recent issues are rooted in finanical issues. Money is the number one reason for divorce. Money issues bring out the little cracks in a relationship. I don't know the specifics of your situation with money but it sounds like your money resources are starting to run low and it's causing your husband increased stress and is triggering some major problems. (it's a reason not an excuse for his actions)

Is there anyway you can sit down with him and talk about the posibility of seeking finanical help (foodstamps, temporary money assitance, help with affordable childcare, medical assitance) and maybe having you return to work until business picks up a litttle? I know ideally staying at home would be what both of you might want but in tough times you need to make adjustments even if they are for the short term. Maybe by lifting some of your finanical burdens you and your dh might be able to work on things in a civil way.

Bottom line something needs to change, you and Dh need to communicate calmly and rationally.


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
I know once I'm on my own I will be fine. I can get temporary assistance if I need it. Getting to that point is th hard part. He gives me a credit card for grocery shopping, so there is no cash to pocket there either..

Is it a credit or debit card? If it's a debit, start embezzling!







Get cash back from each and every transaction. It won't show up on your statement. Those 20s will add up.

And my other advice is to NOT leave your house. If your DH tells you to leave, don't. You and the kids deserve to stay in your home. He should be the one to leave and call the police if you need to. I mean, in the situation where you are arguing and he's yelling at you to leave.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

like flapjack said, if you aren't in physical danger, you may be able to get an attorney to represent you and ask the court for your husband to pay the legal fees later on. you could start with child support and figure out how to get a job as you go. It is probably a one-way road though, no coming back if you find it difficult


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Oh, I wasn't debating, just clarifying to Kirsten.

oh I know







I just didnt want it to start heading that way so I thought it better to say something before it did, thats all. probaly would have anyway, but im sure you can understand why id like to avoid the chance of it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cativari* 
The more I read the more it looks (at least to me) the recent issues are rooted in finanical issues. Money is the number one reason for divorce. Money issues bring out the little cracks in a relationship. I don't know the specifics of your situation with money but it sounds like your money resources are starting to run low and it's causing your husband increased stress and is triggering some major problems. (it's a reason not an excuse for his actions)

Is there anyway you can sit down with him and talk about the posibility of seeking finanical help (foodstamps, temporary money assitance, help with affordable childcare, medical assitance) and maybe having you return to work until business picks up a litttle? I know ideally staying at home would be what both of you might want but in tough times you need to make adjustments even if they are for the short term. Maybe by lifting some of your finanical burdens you and your dh might be able to work on things in a civil way.

Bottom line something needs to change, you and Dh need to communicate calmly and rationally.

Thank, you are right. We would qualify for those things, but DH wont use them. Too much pride. We have been here before though and do always make it through. He doesn't want to take from someone who needs it more... We have spoken about me working an opposite shift of him, and I may end up doing that, even though I prefer not to (still nursing my youngest) but obviously some things are more important. After we spoke last night things seem to be a lot better, but I'm not just going to go with it this time. Something needs to be done so that things stay good, so communication needs to be better, and I feel like I would feel better if I had a get out plan.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Down2Earth* 
Is it a credit or debit card? If it's a debit, start embezzling!







Get cash back from each and every transaction. It won't show up on your statement. Those 20s will add up.

And my other advice is to NOT leave your house. If your DH tells you to leave, don't. You and the kids deserve to stay in your home. He should be the one to leave and call the police if you need to. I mean, in the situation where you are arguing and he's yelling at you to leave.

well, he isn't exactly yelling at me to leave. its more like this.

"Things are not getting better. Me and the kids are going to leave when I have the money." I say.
"Why should I pay the bills and give you a free place to stay while you save up to leave me."he says.
"It's not just about me, its about the kids too."
"Yeah, and they can stay here." he says
"You know I'm not going to leave the kids here. You wouldn't watch them." I say.
"I can hire a nanny." he says.

its more like that. it usually comes up after a fight, not during. we dont yell when we fight. but he can be really rude with his words


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

It sounds like you and your DH have been trapped in a gilded cage for a while. The gild is waring off and things are getting ugly.

It sounds like he has been using alcohol to self medicate for some kind of mental issue, and that you used shopping for similar reasons. You are now both trying to be sober with no support but each other. So I would make step one be:
*Get help for your addictions.*
Since your addiction is one that directly affects your ability to be financially independent, I think it is critical to work on it before you start getting too involved in your next goal:
*Working towards financial independence.*
Since you like children and you will need child care for your own children, I would say you should look into doing child care. You could either get a job at a nearby child care facility, or you could consider starting one at your home.

Instead of giving your DH you paycheck to pay towards bills, use it to start paying for groceries etc. You can probably use the excuse that having a bank account and handling money is part of you therapy for your shopping addiction. This will both ease some of his financial worries and take the burden of his being you keeper off him. It's a win win situation that should allow you to work on building a bit of savings if you are careful and frugal.

You may find that once you have started to build an independent, your marriage will start to improve. Since neither of you will feel like you are trapped anymore (I'm pretty sure if you ask your DH he will say he feels just as trapped as you do right now) you may be able to start being partners again, instead of inmates. If it hasn't improved though, then you final step is:
*Ask him to leave.*
For all kinds of reasons it makes much more sense for him to go than for you to go. You have the kids, he is just himself. He can rent a room at the YMCA if he needs to, you don't have that option. If he refuses to go, then decide what to do, but don't just willingly take your kids off to some one bedroom apt.

I know this may sound odd, but the best thing I ever did for my marriage was to leave my husband. We are now back together, and though things aren't perfect, they are better. DH is in counselling now for one thing, and we no longer see his mother (I know that sounds terrible, but the only times he's been violent towards me are with her around.)


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Did I miss the shopping addiction?


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Did I miss the shopping addiction?

It's in post #32.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
It's in post #32.

Thanks. I totally missed that post.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

i haven't read all the pages but first i want to tell you to be very very careful online. your husband is very controlling. you never know, he may be monitoring your computer. mine had a key stroke reader and he not only read everything I typed (including the stuff I deleated) but my user names, passwords etc....

secondly there are lots of ways to squeeze a few pennies here and there. although your husband sounds so tight with money. what would happen if you insisted on using a cash system for your budget. there are several financial advisors who advise this. it is really easy to sqeeze money from here and there if you are on a cash system.

what kind of friends do you have around? can they watch your kids? can you open a paypal account with their checking account. if you can get them to watch your kids one day a week could you sell your blood/plasma? its garage sale season. not to mention ebay. start selling everything that is not nailed down. a little here and a little there. are you crafty? can you start an etsy store. even if you sell stuff so cheap you don't turn a profit, it would be a way to convert your husbands tightly controlled money into your money.

I saved cash. I didn't want it in the bank because i didn't want him to find it. I was fortunate enough to have a job. I also had access to our bank account.

think outside of cash. I hoarded groceries. I was able to go two months without buying groceries. I also hoarded supplies for my etsy store. that covered christmas and birthday presents. if you need to buy the kids some clothes buy an extra pair of jeans or pack of undies in a bigger size. Anytime you go shopping buy a few extra things you will need (clothes, gifts, non-parishable food) anything that he won't fight for and will ease the expenses later. also if you have friends who who will go shopping with you pay for some of their stuff and have them give you cash for them. if you write a check write it for $10 or $15 over (so long as he doesn't check the reciepts).

What can you do with the kids? can you deliver papers? babysit? mow lawns?

you are going to need someone to help you out. do you have friends who will help you get out?

definitely talk to a shelter. if nothing else they can direct you where you need to go. you are completely at your husbands mercy. This is fine if things are good but not so fine if he is using it to keep you in your place.

I also put my lawyers retainer on my husbands credit card. right before I served him with papers.

while you can count on child support (look for an online calculator online) you likely will not get alimony or spousal support of any kind.

avoid do it yourself stuff that costs money. they suck.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
while you can count on child support (look for an online calculator online) you likely will not get alimony or spousal support of any kind.

I think it is a bit naive to believe you can count on child support. I have never seen a penny in 16 years. My cousin gets sporadic checks.. like maybe a grand total of 100 a year. NEVER count on child support.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

I've never read it but people on "parents as partners" seem to really like the book "how to improve your marriage without talking about it". Worth a look. I admire how you weigh both sides of the issue- you seem like a very smart person (relationally and intelectually). I have no doubt you will find your way through this- whatever that path may be.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I hear a struggling marriage in financial trouble when I read your post. I have BTDT to most of what you said.

I can understand why he keeps control of the money (you having a shopping problem in the past that caused a lot of trouble), it seems like his way of "keeping you honest" and keeping you from making the same mistakes again. It really does not seem like he is just trying to be controlling but actually trying to help in a backhanded way.

I was wondering something though. Do you think there may be any signs of self destruction on his part?

The situation sounds very similar to others I have heard in the news over the last couple of months and years where the finances fail, depression sets in, and in the end you have a suicidal husband (sometimes taking the family with him).

Now, if you do not feel like he is any danger to himself or you, then, personally, I would try my hardest to fix it. A marriage (especially with children) is not something that should be given up without a fight. And if it were me, I would do everything within my powers to fix it. OTOH, if you feel like there is any danger, get out NOW.

Anyways, that is just MHO. I do hope you find the solution that is right for you.

One last comment. You behaviour will have an effect on him. It is possible that if you truly change your behaviour (and keep it changed for the long haul) it could bring back the man you married. It is just as likely that he is asking where the woman he married went. There seems to be a circle going with you two, and if you are interested in fixing it, one of you will have to break it. It takes humbling yourself and doing all the "right" things even when he is not. (This does not mean being a "doormat", but it does mean treating him with respect even when he has not earned it, treating him how you would like him to treat you, in spite of his behaviour.) It takes keeping it up even when he does not reciprocate. And it usually gets darker before the dawn, as they say. But in the end, if you really change yourself, you may just get your husband back even better than before.


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

I don't think this has been mentioned - you can look into co-abode.com (something like that, googleing it should work) for a cheaper place to stay. Then you split the rent, utilities, etc with another single mom. HTH.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lilyka*


i haven't read all the pages but first i want to tell you to be very very careful online. your husband is very controlling. you never know, he may be monitoring your computer. mine had a key stroke reader and he not only read everything I typed (including the stuff I deleted) but my user names, passwords etc....


I am not concerned about this at all (IDK maybe I should be but I feel like I don't need to be] he has never been one to go through my things, he is extremely good about respecting privacy.

Quote:



secondly there are lots of ways to squeeze a few pennies here and there. although your husband sounds so tight with money. what would happen if you insisted on using a cash system for your budget. there are several financial advisors who advise this. it is really easy to sqeeze money from here and there if you are on a cash system.


we used to do cash but Im so bad at estimating cost that I'd end up up asking for less money then what it costs to buy a weeks worth of groceries. I've enjoyed being able to just go and buy what we need and not have to worry about being short. When we did use cash if there is money over he tells me to keep it so I have some money on me like if I want to go out for lunch or something or just to have some cash on me. I can start saving that money but it wont be from grocery shopping since if I brought cash there would be nothing left and not enough food lol. I'm no good with money really. I might do that cash back thing someone suggested though with the debit card.

Quote:



what kind of friends do you have around? can they watch your kids? can you open a paypal account with their checking account. if you can get them to watch your kids one day a week could you sell your blood/plasma? its garage sale season. not to mention ebay. start selling everything that is not nailed down. a little here and a little there. are you crafty? can you start an etsy store. even if you sell stuff so cheap you don't turn a profit, it would be a way to convert your husbands tightly controlled money into your money.


I have only one friend, but yes she would watch the kids... not regularly because she works and goes to school but sometimes. I don't think I can sell my blood/plasma because I had leukemia when I was younger. I'm actually trying to sell some things now though - clothes, cloth diapers, toys, etc that the kids are done with - my husband is expecting me to keep that money. Etsy is a no go for me, I am not artistic at all unfortunately... and I envy those who are!

Quote:



I saved cash. I didn't want it in the bank because i didn't want him to find it. I was fortunate enough to have a job. I also had access to our bank account.


I think cash would be best for me as well for several reasons, glad to hear someone else used that method.

Quote:



What can you do with the kids? can you deliver papers? babysit? mow lawns?


I dont think I could handle more than my own brood to be honest. I love kid, but I'm at my max with them. When I just had one I used to babysit though. Never thought of delivering papers... mowing lawns is a no go - I dont know how and its so hot out I worry about overheating - I've had heat stroke

Quote:



you are going to need someone to help you out. do you have friends who will help you get out?


I will have someone help me if I need help, I'd need help no matter what probably, but I think if I was actually moving he would help me.

Thanks for all the advise and insight









Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*


I've never read it but people on "parents as partners" seem to really like the book "how to improve your marriage without talking about it". Worth a look. I admire how you weigh both sides of the issue- you seem like a very smart person (relationally and intelectually). I have no doubt you will find your way through this- whatever that path may be.










I'll look into it, sounds like what I need.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty*


I hear a struggling marriage in financial trouble when I read your post. I have BTDT to most of what you said.


that is really encouraging to hear









Quote:



I can understand why he keeps control of the money (you having a shopping problem in the past that caused a lot of trouble), it seems like his way of "keeping you honest" and keeping you from making the same mistakes again. It really does not seem like he is just trying to be controlling but actually trying to help in a backhanded way.


I understand why too. It makes things hard if I want to leave, but I wasn't wanting to leave I was wanting to stay before, and it was easier for me this way. I still get what I want and need, I would even say I'm "spoiled" in that way. Especially if its things for me (he doesn't like when I buy too much for the kids because I get carried away, but he likes to see me do nice things for myself - I know sometimes even HE will give me money he shouldn't when its something for me...) ... Right now I think we can find a way to make this work, but I think at the same time I need to have money aside and a plan for getting out...

Quote:



Now, if you do not feel like he is any danger to himself or you, then, personally, I would try my hardest to fix it. A marriage (especially with children) is not something that should be given up without a fight. And if it were me, I would do everything within my powers to fix it. OTOH, if you feel like there is any danger, get out NOW.


no, I don't think there is danger. I think are two really stressed out people who are both feeling underappreciated and he is just worse about handling it than I am.

Quote:



One last comment. You behaviour will have an effect on him. It is possible that if you truly change your behaviour (and keep it changed for the long haul) it could bring back the man you married. It is just as likely that he is asking where the woman he married went. There seems to be a circle going with you two, and if you are interested in fixing it, one of you will have to break it. It takes humbling yourself and doing all the "right" things even when he is not. (This does not mean being a "doormat", but it does mean treating him with respect even when he has not earned it, treating him how you would like him to treat you, in spite of his behaviour.) It takes keeping it up even when he does not reciprocate. And it usually gets darker before the dawn, as they say. But in the end, if you really change yourself, you may just get your husband back even better than before.


you are right. thank you so much.

The other thing is he is terrible with relationships and talking and stuff in general. He was raised with that whole heavy handed men don't cry or talk about feelings because thats "gay" etc thing, and it's so far ingrained in him it's very hard to get around and I'm just glad he isn't doing it to our own children... He doesn't know what functional looks like. He came from an unbelievable upbringing... and I think considering that he turned out really well. I know he really wants to provide for his family, and if it came down to it I really think he would pay child support without it being a problem... Things may not seem to workable during and argument, but we separated once before and things were very amicable.


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## DianeMarie (Jul 7, 2009)

I agree with Cativari---it seems that most of the problems are coming from major stress about money, and that is completely understandable. If you are worried that you are going to lose your house, then that can cause enough stress to give you a heart attack.

And, now there is a bit more understanding as to WHY you are given a credit card to use for grocery shopping and asking for things........in your prior postings, you made it sound like it was an abusive situation as far as money goes..........but that isn't the case. If you have shown that you are irresponsible with money, it is only right that your husband has to "control the reins" so to speak. I think anybody in the same situation would do that same thing. If your shopping and spending caused major problems last time, and you had your own bank account cancelled and are unable to open a new one, then that is a good indication that your spending was out of control and your husband has to do whatever he has to do to keep things in a positive credit situation.

Now that one major stressor has been identified, there is a VERY GOOD reason to get a job. That would help a lot of things all-around: You'd be making money to contribute to the household, you'd have a job that would make you feel productive, and it would get you out of the house----and I think that may be a HUGE help. I suspect, although I may be wrong, that some of your unhappiness MIGHT have to do with the fact that you are cooped up in the house all the time, watching the kids, doing laundry, cleaning the house, etc. I think that getting out of the house and not feeling like a handmaid all day, every day, may do wonders for your own psyche. It is tough to stay home all day, with 3 young kids, and have to do housework and take care of those children and then deal with your husband who is stressed out and unhappy too. Getting out of the house, away from the kids, and doing something COMPLETELY different than household chores may help your mind and body. Perhaps you are being more sensitive and easily aggravated by your husband's actions too?

Now that I have read more of your postings, I can honestly say that I do believe you are going over a rough spot in your marriage. You have had rough spots before, and you and your husband have made it through---so, I have faith that you can do it again. What it takes for that to happen is COMMUNICATION. You and your husand MUST, MUST, MUST sit down and get everything out on the table so you can discuss things and come to a solution that is mutually agreeable to both of you. And, once you do that, maybe divorce will be the furthest thing from your mind. But, I think you are confused by the tone of your postings. In one line, you say that you want to save cash because you don't want him to find it and that you asked to stay with a friend, and then in the next line you say that you think that there are just "2 stressed people feeling underapprerciated and he is worse at handling it" than you are. You admit that you are "spoiled" to a degree as far as money and him wanting you to do nice things for yourself. Maybe instead of HIM handling it worse than you, YOU are handling it worse than him!!

It sounds to me like you are just in a bad place in your marriage right now, stemming from financial woes. Instead of plotting and sneaking around to try and save money and have a "backup plan", instead of using that negative energy to think about all the ways you can get away, why don't you change your thinking into a positive direction---and think about SOLUTIONS. The very first thing you MUST do is communicate with your husband. From what I hear, and granted, I could be very wrong, but from what I hear you are not in danger, your needs are being provided for (and MORE if he wants you to do nice things for yourself), your kids needs are being met----you are unhappy because your husband is unhappy and cranky and he is acting unhappy and cranky. I would almost guarantee that you are presently no bed of roses to live with now either. I think your husband has had to deal with a lot of financial issues from your crazy spending in the past and may be dealing with the aftermath. I am sure that in your history there has been a lot on both sides that has been faced and conquered---it seems that there is too much of a history to throw it all away because you both are facing a rough time and both of you are cranky. You say that you love him and he loves you---the reason to get a divorce is because the love isn't there anymore and the turmoil is outweighing the happy times, and has been for a long time---especially with 3 kids. What would walking away (and the way you are talking, "sneaking away" and lying about things so you can one day just "disappear") teach your children about dealing and coping with difficult times? Do you want your kids to lie to you and sneak around on you instead of being honest and talking to you and confiding in you? Even though they are young, they will eventually know what happened and HOW it happened, and how will they feel when they find out that you were lying and one day just took off without your husband knowing? How would YOU feel if your husband did that to you? You don't have just yourself to think about now---you've got 3 young children that you are responsible for teaching and raising with the proper priciples and morals in life.

I also think that you may be "bored", and could be seeking happiness on the other side of the fence. Take it from me---the grass is NOT greener on the other side, if you are having your needs and wants met, if your kids are having their needs and wants met, it you or the kids are not in physical danger, and if this just happens to be a "bad time", there is no reason to "escape" or sneak away. Everybody has bad times, whether financial, health-wise or other, and life isn't without its problems. The way to solve problems is to identify them and come up with solutions---not to run the other way and hope they disappear. There is a saying---"No matter where you go, there you are." Your problems follow you wherever you go--running away or moving to another state will not abolish your problems.

My feelings when I read your comments about not mowing lawns because it is too hot out and you are worried about "overheating"........and that you have not really thought about or considered a lot of things that people are suggesting that are NOT difficult things to do, and that if you went back to work you wouldn't make much so it doesn't make sense to do that.............let me tell you something, and I don't want to sound like a hard ass here, but: If you were in a desperate situation and REALLY wanted to get out, you would do ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING and probably EVERYTHING possible to make money to save to be able to leave. In the beginning, you made it sound like your husband was "controlling" you by "lending" you a credit card to go shopping with and not giving you any cash.............but now you are saying that he would give you cash but you don't want it because you are terrible at estimating costs......so, if you wanted to tuck away some cash here and there, you could. He is not "controlling" the money at all like you came across saying at first. He is only keeping track of what is coming in and what is going out---like anybody does who lives within a budget!! It sounds like you may be unable to budget, so actually you are lucky that he does that! Maybe you should sit down and try to make a budget yourself----make a grocery list of things that you commonly buy every week and how much those items cost. Look through the weekly grocery store circulars and see what is on sale that you need or would like to eat, write it down and how much it costs. Keep track of anything and everything you buy in a week and in a month, and how much you are spending weekly and monthly. Maybe if YOU show some motivation to want to help the financial situation it would reduce the stress on your husband's part and he would have a different attitude. Have a yard sale!! Summertime is the best time to do this---and I am sure our house is chock full of stuff that you no longer need or want. (I had a yard sale once, and I made a cool $2100 in cash, selling crap that was still in excellent condition but that I didn't want anymore because I was sick of it!! Clothing, pocketbooks, vacuum cleaners, cameras, lots of books that I read and no longer wanted I sold for .50 and .25 each!! Old CD's and DVD's, sheets, towels...........hard to believe that my "junk" made $2100!! And, when I moved 5 years ago, I had a moving sale/estate sale.........instead of just throwing stuff away..........and I made $11,000 CASH in 2 days. Unbelieveable.) There are LOTS of ways to make money, and if you really were desperate you could think of a lot more ways, probably!

Just because he is "terrible at relationships" doesn't mean he doesn't love you or love his children. Men like that close up very easily, and the more aggravated and angry at him you are, the more he will shut down. Make yourself available to communicate in a calm, rational manner. Be nice. Make him feel good---about working hard to keep the home afloat, mainly. Reassure him that things will be okay, and that you will do whatever it is necessary to help out with things. Instead of antagonizing him (and just abandoning him), show him that you will stand by him and support him and support your belief in yyour family. Lots of men were raised with the idea that they have to be "strong" and not show emotions, but that doesn't mean they don't feel emotions----and holding them in is sometimes more hard than letting them out. Everybody gets mad. Everybody gets sad sometimes. Everybody feels stress. However---everybody has different tolerances for things, and what throws him over the edge may not throw you over the edge. It sounds to me like he knows what the financial situation is and you don't. ASK HIM. Find out exactly what the financial situation is and SHARE the burden!! Maybe if you really knew what was going on, your mindset would change. Sit down with him and make a budget together. Figure out what you are going to do---TOGETHER---to improve the situation. Maybe if he felt like someone was on his side, on HIS TEAM, so to speak, or "HAS HIS BACK", he will relax a bit and won't have to carry the financial burden all by himself, and that will make him feel better. Hey---times are tough, there is no denying that. People are losing their jobs, losing their houses, going without health insurance...........count your blessings and be grateful for what you DO have and the positives in your life. I can guarantee you that if you sneak out of the house one day and take off, your life is going to become a whole hell-of-a-lot harder than it is now. Plus, I think it would devastate your husband---I really do. What your husband needs now is SUPPORT, not for you to walk away when times are tough. If you are truly just so unhappy that you can't take it anymore, then that's a different story. But, honestly, that isn't what I am getting from you now. (In the beginning, you were much different and made it sound like a totally desperate situation, which I am finding out now, is not.) I am getting the story of someone who is frustrated, cooped up, and angry that her husband is angry. Shoot, if I just had a car repossessed and used up $5,000 out of my savings to live I'd be stressed out and pissed off too!! But, to be plotting your escape and planning on how much child support and alimony you'd get is a really sh***y way to think. (Sorry for the language) You leave because there is no hope---and you don't leave based on how much child support he'd pay. If you are unhappy, you just leave!! Or, you talk to your husband like a rational adult, with the same respect you would want from him, and discuss who is going to leave and how--and included in this discussion whould be a plan of how you will tell your children that they will not be seeing Daddy every day, etc. You say your husband respects your privacy........Honestly, I don't see a desperate situation here. If he wanted to be a sh**head to you, God knows he could----but he doesn't sound like the type!!

I think right now, what you need to do is change your own attitude---and you'll find out that the old adage rings true: What comes around goes around. If you're nice, then you'll get nice back. If you're understanding, then you'll get understanding back. If you are an angry, unhappy witch, then guess what you are going to get back??? You are a smart woman, and I am sure I don't need to tell you that when you are feeling down or feeling defeated, what you want is someone to listen, someone to help, someone to support you. Why would your husband not want the same?


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Please do not pass judgment on my physical condition. I really cannot do things mow lawns. I think staying alive is moer important for my children than anything, and with a long list of medical conditions (thankfully some only part of the past) I do have to be careful with what I do.

I've thought of cleaning houses though, or businesses after business hours. If I do businesses I can bring the kids with me... my friends mom used to do that, and I don't have to worry about getting sick.

I wish that I was getting back what I put out there, but that is really not the case here, and the problem really is that I am communicating and he is not. And I've asked him many times not to throw things. It wasn't done in anger, but it was done to show he was annoyed I asked for his help and so he was going to help in the least helpful way possible, which resulted in a broken window this time. I am not the one saying unkind words about or to our children or being short tempered with them. I am very well capable of handling my emotions, and of course I am confused. That doesn't mean I handle it worse then him, it means I love him but at the same time I love myself and my children, and I just want to make sure that whatever I do it is the best thing for everyone involved. My husband has it very good, and it's very hard to say something nice to someone and then their response to that very statement be rude or unkind. I am willing to support whatever he is going through, but not in such a way that involvesme being an emotional punching bag.

If I made him sound controlling over the money issue that was not my intent. I was trying not to get into detals, but when I realized not getting into details was making it look that way I cleared the air. At no point was I like oh poor me oh woe is me he wont give me money. I've said from the beginning that I have it good in that regard.

What do you suggest I do when everyhting turns into an arguement, and I keep trying to be nice even in those moments but he just keeps going.

Here is an example from a few weeks ago.

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want

this went on and on causing a fight, and I'm just trying to pacify him the entire time because I think its a stupid thing to fight about. He puts me in a position where either I am the inconsiderate one who makes all the decisions, or I'm the one who wont "just answer his question already" as he puts it, but he isn't answering my question either. So to not be doing the same thing I would have to just decide without consideration to him. If I say never mind I'll cook what do you want that causes a fight with him too. He's harder then a 2 year old! So finally he is on the phone ordering food and I say, oh where are you ordering from so I can tell you want I want. and he goes, what do you want. and I say, well where are you ordering from so I know.

Why couldn't he just tell me he was on the phone with the chinese food resteraunt. Why does their need to be strife? As a abckstory, he is WAY pickier with food then I am, so I always just say you pick the place and I'll find something I like, but it's like he is choosing to put him in a place where he is going to end up miserable. I don't know what else to do in these situations, but I don't want to feel forced into making decisions that will cause him to blame ME for him being miserable, when all he had to do for EVERYONE to be happy is to just talk to me. He turns a 2 minute conversation in a half our long argument - and its him arguing with me while I'm trying to just be agreeable and make him happy.

I think I have been careful here not to paint him as some total monster, because he's not. As I said, he's not abusive. When others were getting that vibe I always cleared it up right away. But now it seems its just going to be swung the other way to say I'm the bad guy. Why does someone have to be the bad guy? I'm here for support saying 1) if I do need to get out, which is something only I can decide, what are all my options? and 2) if I'm going to stay, how can I work on things when he isn't willing.

I didnt say hey do you think my husband is a monster or hey do you think actually im the problem here. I know what our problem is. I know my role that I play in it. And I also know that even when I try to change my role it doesn't help and I also know that he is unwilling to work on things and I am, and so I think YES it is that he is the one having a harder time working on this relationship.

PS- I did "run away to another state once" had nothing to do with DH, and guess what? Got rid of at least 95% of my problems. So sometimes, getting away does help. I'm not convinced it will in this situation, and I wouldn't leave state anyway because I want the kis close to their dad even if I do leave. and it's not like the kids would get less time with him. He spends MAYBE 5 minutes a day in their presence, not to speak of how much of that time is even directed towards giving them positive attention. He probably is depressed. Not living with him might not be the answer, but at the same time, it wouldn't be much different then the situation is now except the few minutes he spends with me and the kids might be a bit more positive, I don't know. He says they are loud and so by time he sees them he is already annoyed with them for making noise.

I'm not sure what more you suggest I give my husband. I come up to him, kiss him on the cheek, tell him I love him. I rub his shoulders. I offer to make him meals. I cook his favorite desserts just to show I am thinking of him. When he talks about the things he likes I listen actively and I take joy in the fact its something he cares about even if its not something that interests me personally. But he doesn't want to hear 1 sentence about my day or my interests.

Also I am not "plotting" on alimony and child support. For one, I wouldnt even go after alimony because I don't believe in it (for me personally, nothing against anyone who gets it) child support I wouldn't even have to ask for her would give. And if he didn't I'm not going to take him to court for that because its not worth the stress, and I've seen it caused too many problems. I was raised just fine without my dad ever sending child support, and I feel confident that once I was on my feet I could do just fine. Wouldn't be easy, but I've also seen men unable to support themselves because they got a pay cut one way or another but their child support didnt go down and I wouldn't do that to my husband no matter how we ended up splitting up, if we ended up splitting up.

It's not a desperate get out this minute situation and i'm sorry it sounded that way. Of course when I wrote this post I was emotional and hurting and crying as I wrote and now I have calmed down and I see that there is still a problem, and its a problem we keep having, and that at some point it's not going to be healthy to stay here if things dont change and I would be wise to have a plan in advance for what to do. Because there was a time I SHOULD have left and didn't, even if it was only temporarily, and I wasn't able to. I should be able to leave if I need, even if its not permanent.

I'm sure you didnt mean your post as an attack but from this side it really came across that way.


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

He sounds a lot like my ex







. He never let me touch the money, and the few times he did give me money, it'd disappear. When I'd confront him on it, he'd say it was my fault for not spending it fast enough.







:

He also had a bad habit of twisting anything we were arguing about into being my fault somehow. No matter what it was. It really starts to get old...

Anyway, we had a lot of other issues as well, and despite what a pp said, my ex was oblivious to my unhappiness-even when I'd tell him directly. I tried to leave repeatedly and then chickened out-due to money and due to him making promises of changing, which he never kept.

So yeah, I left him, found a new guy that I love more than anything, and although I am still horribly broke, I'm so much happier. On top of that, I found out after we split up that my ex gave me an STD, which means he was cheating on me, something I never knew (and I know this isnt the same, but he also decided he was bi and wanted to do things with men-I have no problem with gay/bi people-just not when its my husband!). Ew.

It does sound like your dh might have some mental health issues, as did my ex. Mine was seeking help, so that wasnt the whole issue for us (a lot of it was just his personality I think, coupled with a great ability to lie), but well, if he wont seek help, there isnt much you can do









Good luck!! I gotta take my kids to the park.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
ok my marriage was a collasal failure so take this for what it is worth but you do seem to be the one picking a fight here (and I used to do this all the time). why not stop reading into his tone and just take him at his word? He says fine what do you want you say "chinese sounds good to me. but I am open" he says he doesn't care. you say " I am ordering chinese what do you want? should I just order a little of this and a little of that?" he says I don't care. you say "ok I will just a get a variety of stuff and we can pick and choose....." end of discussion. I know my husband spent all day at work making descisions about very important stuff. when it came time for supper he just wanted it in front of him. he wanted someone else to make the descisions every now and then and stop putting everything on him. next time your husband says he does not care try believing him.

and i really think you guys should get some counseling. certainly wouldn't hurt. maybe make it a date night and go out before or after the counseling session.

and perhaps you hsould look into getting a job. kids are resiliant. if he does a crappy job watching them they will not die and him and the kids will find their own way. you could use that money to contribute to the expenses or maybe save up for a car. it sounds like it would be good for you to be able to get out of the house every now and then.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
Here is an example from a few weeks ago.

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
Me: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
Me: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, well either of those is fine with me (I'm trying to let him give me some say since I know he didnt really even want to order out in the first place)
Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
Me: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want

Ok, here is MO on your "argument".

you: want to order dinner?

him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
At this point you should have just taken his answer as a "yes" since he did say "sure".

you: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
This sounds like you are trying to pick an argument by being contrary to him

him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
So now he is definsive

you: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
This was good.

Him: whatever you want.
This was good.

you: okay, well either of those is fine with me
This sounds like you are deliberatly trying to start an arguement.

Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
He sounds frustrated

you: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
You sound like you are pushing for a fight now

I don't want to sound mean, but I have had similar arguments with my DH and it never came out well. This was us for years, and we struggled with communicating and just being in the same room at times. Finally I had had enough. And this is what I said.

"I am tired of fighting. I am no longer going to take responsibility for your answers and reactions. This is what I am going to do. If you say something, I am going to take it as your word. If you say yes, I take that as a yes. If you say no, I take that as a no. I will not take responsibility to try and read your mind and figure out if you are really meaning yes or no. And I will not accept it if you use me as an excuse for your answers. You are man enough to make your own decisions and choices, if you pass that choice to me, don't complain when I make it."

So, in the spirit of the above decision, our conversations would have changed to:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.

This removes the probability of an argument.

Perhaps you should give something like this a try.

It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
*It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.*

*
*

I agree completely. Take his words at face value and politely go from there. There is a lot you can do on your end to improve your marriage if you do this. The argument you posted actually gives me a lot of hope that your marriage can make it if you learn a different style of communicating.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

I may be missing something, but it doesn't seem like your husband is abusive at all. The money issue makes total sense to me given the additional details.

Like some others have stated, he does sound like he is in a funk. (Not an excuse!







) I base that on the financial stress, your admission that it seems to get worse after a baby (added pressure), and the fact that you mentioned he works from home (which can be isolating).

If your hubby is not willing to get counseling with or without you...what about reading a book together that may help strengthen your marriage? Or, what about reading a book together that you both might enjoy (regardless of the subject matter)? What about seeing if hubby is interested in taking a (often reasonable!) local class in something he enjoys? Then, perhaps you can take the next session of classes so you can get out and away for a little while? I think a PT job is also a great idea for you - it may give you some autonomy.

Good luck in whatever you decide.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kidzaplenty* 
Ok, here is MO on your "argument".

you: want to order dinner?

him: sure what do you want. (said in the no I don't tone of voice.)
At this point you should have just taken his answer as a "yes" since he did say "sure".

you: If you don't want to order out it's okay, I don't mind making something.
This sounds like you are trying to pick an argument by being contrary to him

him: Geesh I said yes we can order out!
So now he is definsive

you: I don't want to argue. Okay so we are ordering out. I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
This was good.

Him: whatever you want.
This was good.

you: okay, well either of those is fine with me
This sounds like you are deliberatly trying to start an arguement.

Him: well I can't order if you dont tell me what you want.
He sounds frustrated

you: Ok, where are we ordering from so I can think about what I want
You sound like you are pushing for a fight now

I don't want to sound mean, but I have had similar arguments with my DH and it never came out well. This was us for years, and we struggled with communicating and just being in the same room at times. Finally I had had enough. And this is what I said.

"I am tired of fighting. I am no longer going to take responsibility for your answers and reactions. This is what I am going to do. If you say something, I am going to take it as your word. If you say yes, I take that as a yes. If you say no, I take that as a no. I will not take responsibility to try and read your mind and figure out if you are really meaning yes or no. And I will not accept it if you use me as an excuse for your answers. You are man enough to make your own decisions and choices, if you pass that choice to me, don't complain when I make it."

So, in the spirit of the above decision, our conversations would have changed to:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.

This removes the probability of an argument.

Perhaps you should give something like this a try.

It took DH a bit to understand that I would not accept responsibility for his words and choices and that he could not blame them on me. But he finally did. And our marriage improved a great deal.

and the reason why I dont do it this way:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.

several days later:

Me: any ideas what you;d like for dinner
Him: why do you even bother asking? you don't care what I like anyway. You don't like anything I like.

How am I supposed to know what he likes when he wont tell me and I can't ask him, and then he throws it in my face a few days later. If you have any advice for how this is still my fault I'd love to know, because I've tried atleast 20 different approached over the same issues, and it always comes down to him finding a way to make me the bad guy, and make me wrong, and according to you all here that is the truth. Maybe I just suck as a person and I'm some kind of idiot who after many many tried of several different things, including things others have suggested, in the end I am the bad guy and its all my fault.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

I can read a book. He won't read a book. He wont do anything. The only thing he would be willing to do is tell me all the things I can change. Then I do exactly as he says and he still isnt happy, and makes no changes of his own. I'm really tired of pretending to be someone I'm not and trying to be "perfect" for him and then it's still not enough.

Maybe my examples are bad, but there is nothing I can say or do that is good enough these days. I've even tried not taking to him (I DONT 't mean ignoring him/cold shoulder, I just mean giving him space and letting him come to me) and you know what happens? We dont talk for days and he wont even notice. I've tried writing him sweet notes and hiding them in places he goes into freqeutly, like one in his wallet, one in his sock drawer, etc. I try to do things to SHOW him I love him, as well as tell him. He changes what he wants too as often as he tells me he wants it though, and I can't keep up and its tiring. He'll say how I changed because I don't get dressed up for him anymore for example. So I start dressing up and doing my hair and he doesn't even notice. Not that he takes great care of himself, I would never say this to him but I'm still 110 lbs after 3 kids... you'd think he was the one who'd been pregnant 3 times, and he's telling me what *I* need to do to get his attention. Of course now I' taking about physical things, which is another issue. I work on myself as much as I can, but his response about himself is basically "I know I can be a real jerk sometimes, but thats just who I am." or "I can't help it, I'm just not as patient as you so its hard to be around the kids" as an excuse for NEVER spending time with them. Okay, so maybe you cant spend 24 hours a day around them, but so little patience that you can't even sit down for the time it takes to read one story?

Today for example:
Me: Can you put the baby in the carseat (the one thing I've asked him to do in the last few days) If you can't it's cool I can get it, it would just make it easier
Him: (huffing) - fine!
Me: Thanks, I really appreciate the help. I'm going to make up a plate of dinner. You want?
Him: (annoyed and edgy) Of course, I'm starving
Me: Okay I'll make you some. Was just checking, didn't notice if you'd had a chance to grab a plate or not yet.
Him: How could I?! I'm was starving and I couldnt get food because I had to help you with the baby!
Me: Im sorry I didn't realize, next time itd be better if you just said no when you feel you can't help.
Him: Yeah right, like I can say no.

And where is this coming from? I don't know... He can say no. He is doing this now because I've said it's hard for me when he ALWAYS says no. I am not a confusing person though. I say up front I really need your help or I say I'm only asking because it makes it easier but I can do without the help. And even then, we've been over this - that I rather him just keep saying no every time then to say yes and help with a grudge.

which often the grudge gets taken out on the children.

Me frazzled - please come out here for a minute I need a hand!
Him - (storming out of room) (says to kids) okay you are all going to time out.

They didn't do anything wrong, I just need help. if I wanted to just lock them up in a room I could have done that myself. I was asking for his help because I wanted to do what I needed to do and not lose my cool with the kids... instead, it ends up with him losing his cool with the kids. defeats the purpose. And lately anytime he goes anywhere near the kids they say "daddy scare me! daddy scare me!" he has never physically hurt them, but to a small child his huffing and short fuse make him come across as unpredictable and things happen to fast when he is around and I understand why that scares them.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

And it's really hard NOT to take his tone into account when he is talking, because its not so uch that im reading his tone of voice as it is that he is flashing big red and yellow signs saying "LOOK AT ME. IM ANNOYED. IM MAD. IM NOT SAYING WHAT I MEAN RIGHT NOW AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW IT EVEN THOUGH IM GOING TO DENY IT!" like you REALLY can't ignore his tone. He wont let you. and when you manage to, then he gets even more mad at you for ignoring his obvious "hint". can't win. It's one thing to say, when looking at dialog, oh just say it this way, but when you are there in the moment its hard to detach yourself that far emotionally... in fact, if I did that I think it would come across as creepy and trying to kill him with kindness, which would really does just piss him off more.

He is honestly nice to me only long enough to ask me for a coffee (gives me a big cheesy smile hold out his coffee sup, and says in a silly voice "cofee pleeeeeeeeeeeese hunny?!", and then immediately turns on me if I ever say no to getting him one, which I almost never do because its really cute when he asks like that, how could I say no? but sometimes I can't do it fast enough and he makes a big production out of going to make it himself.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
and the reason why I dont do it this way:

Me: want to order dinner?
him: sure what do you want.
Me: I'd like Chinese food or cheesesteaks. Either one. Or maybe you have another idea.
Him: whatever you want.
Me: okay, I want Chinese. Here is what I want.

several days later:

Me: any ideas what you;d like for dinner
Him: why do you even bother asking? you don't care what I like anyway. You don't like anything I like.









at that point I would say cheerfully without accusing "I asked you what you wanted, you told me to choose. would you like to choose this time?" eventually he will grow up. and if he doesn't at least you will have tried everything.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks I will try that next time. Maybe sometimes I just try too hard to be nice.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Maybe he's not abusive but in some of your examples he is acting abusively. I read your whole dinner conversation and knew before you came back and clarified that he plays the game with you, the one you can't win (typical abuser game btw). It could be that he's depressed and that's turned him into a verbally/emotionally abusive person but if he's not willing to get help what options do you have, what can you live with?

www.drirene.com


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## OboePlayerMom (May 23, 2005)

My DH was not entirely comfortable with our children when they were babies, so I took on more responsibilities then in caring for them. But I also made a point to include him when I was playing with them so he could see how to do it. I wanted to be sure he was a capable person to care for them if I wasn't available. I remember us all sitting on the floor rolling a ball back and forth. We also played with a train set or cars and trucks. he needed to learn how to play with little ones - he had no idea how to do that on his own. Maybe you could help your DH figure out how to interact with your children. It sounds like the only thing he really knows how to do when you ask for help is to isolate the children. Which kind of helps you, but not really the way you want. He may not know how to interact with the children, so he takes the easy way out.

My DH is great with the kids now that they're older. It's been fun to see that relationship develop.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
Maybe he's not abusive but in some of your examples he is acting abusively. I read your whole dinner conversation and knew before you came back and clarified that he plays the game with you, the one you can't win (typical abuser game btw). It could be that he's depressed and that's turned him into a verbally/emotionally abusive person but if he's not willing to get help what options do you have, what can you live with?

www.drirene.com

thank you for understanding. I do agree it is emotionally abusive at times, though I dont think he does it intentionally - so more about how I'm affected not something he tried to do to me. And thats just it, I need to figure out where I draw line (which is hopefully on the side that ISNT hurtful towards me) I think he just has no people skills, which he admits, but instead of using that as a sign he needs to change he uses it as an excuse that I should accept it the way it is.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

btw, it's a very clever situation at times, because even when *I* explain what happens it makes me sound like the bad guy. Imagine when I'm trying to work with him. I've tried focusing on what I do wrong only - but then it just gets turned into YEA thats what you do wrong and IM so perfect. (he doesn't say that, but thats what happens) he doesn't see me changing nd feel inspired to do the same.


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## DianeMarie (Jul 7, 2009)

mommysarah---First, please let me apologize. In no way was my response an "attack", and I am sorry if it came out that way. I was just being honest and trying to get a grip of the situation to be able to "help" as best as possible.

I still think the money is the main issue here, and I find it interesting that you only touch on that topic briefly. Your main beef is his tone of voice, impatience, bad attitude...........if I just had a car repossessed and spent $5,000 in savings, I'd have a bad attitude too!! Are you at all concerned about your financial situation? You don't seem to be.

Overwhelming stress over finances can certainly cause depression and bad moods, which end up being manifested as anger, impatience, bad tone of voice, etc. YOU need to find out what the underlying cause of all this is. Perhaps if you showed an interest and concern about resolving the financial issues his attitude would change. Working together instead of bailing out will do a world of good----because I think you two have a long history, and that shouldn't be thrown away willy-nilly. You admit that your initial post was a lot of emotional grief, and once you calmed down you could think better. That happens with everybody. I have a feeling that you get upset quickly as well, and then you and your husband feed off of each other, so to speak. I notice an antagonizing and passive-aggressive nature about your remarks to him, and they are confusing as well----you can't yell for help and then say you can do it and it is cool. You either need help or you don't! Going back and forth, tit-for-tat, is enough to drive anybody crazy-----and your argument over Chinese food or cheesesteaks was ridiculous. Be assertive, make a decision and stick to it----don't be upset if you keep lobbing the ball back in his court and he is apathetic about the whole thing. (What I couldn't believe, actually, is that you were ordering out at all, based on your financial situation. If you are having cars repossessed and spending thousands in savings, you should not be eating out and/or ordering in!! You should be SAVING MONEY!!) When you give him a choice, say something like "Do you want chicken or spaghetti for dinner?", not "Any idea what you'd like for dinner?" Even I find some of your remarks confusing, and that is just from your descriptions of the situations.

I also think you are feeling lonely and cooped up. You need to find some friends so you can get out of the house---whether that be through finding some groups to meet with regarding your children(you mentioned you had a child with special needs), or finding some people to hang out with who share some of your interests---but, interests that are not SHOPPING. Again----I think that getting a job would be a GREAT thing: You would be getting away from the 24/7 housewife/ child-care thing, and doing something that will give you some autonomy and feelings of productivity. I sense that you don't want to work based on your statements of having medical problems and still nursing your youngest child----in my opinion, saving your marriage and keeping your family together by lightening the financial load on your husband is the most important thing. Lots of women who are still nursing work out of the home and they make it work. But---you have to show some initiative and motivation to actively want to contribute and make things better, instead of running away and bailing out. You definitely have a major part in the financial demise situation, with your addiction to shopping and overspending, and then having your bank account closed and hurting your credit situation. In your response regarding your bank account being closed and reported 5 years ago, and that "they aren't supposed to do that over such a small amount of money and that short of a period of time...."----ANY creditor can report a one dollar payment that is one day late!! There is no rule or law about that!! And of course, if you overdrew an account $30 or $40 for 2 months, they are going to close the account and report you to ChexSystems and you aren't going to be able to open another account because you are a credit risk to the bank and banks don't like to lose money. They view that as a default, to not put that money back immediately and bring your account into a positive standing. For $30 or $40, I would have begged, borrowed and stolen to get that money and get your account back into a positive status! You are blaming the bank for something that YOU did!! They didn't do anything wrong by closing your account and reporting to ChexSystems---I am sure if you read about the rules and regulations of having an account, you would find this written in there. (Is there a pattern being formed here? I did notice that in one of your posts that you said that you had talked to him about things, and he did some "blaming" on you.....Did you "blame" him? I suspect you did. Blaming someone else takes the burden off the "blamer" and relinquishes responsibility of having any contribution to the situation.) Unless you have overdraft coverage (which you aren't going to have if your credit is crappy), overdrawing an account is a MAJOR bad sign to a bank. You have shown your irresponsibility with money and creditors don't like that----and, it sounds like your husband doesn't like it either if your name isn't on a joint bank account!! Apparently, he doesn't want to co-sign or guarantee an account with your name on it, because he can't trust you with money and because he doesn't want his credit ruined, which is totally understandable. Your thing now should be showing him (and banks and creditors) that you are willing and motivated to MAKE money and BE RESPONSIBLE with it!! As a "friend", I would NEVER open an account for any of my friends unless they could show me their credit reports, so I could see if they have defaulted on anything and the chances I was going to get "stuck" with any negative balances or overdraws. (Then again, if their credit was good, I wouldn't need to open an account for them...) What you should do is get a job, and then get a secured credit card that reports to the big 3 credit reporting agencies to work on your credit. You put however much money you want into the credit card, and it works like a debit card---it is not a "credit" card, because it is using youe money that has already been deposited, or "secured". You should forget about asking a friend to open an account---you should concentrate on getting an account opened in your own name. If it has been 5 years, go to a bank and see if you can open an account----and BE HONEST!! People like it when you are honest instead of hiding things and not being upfront. If you tell the person you are talking to that you made some mistakes in your past with an account, but it has been 5 years and you really want to open an account, they have "ways" of bypassing the rules. Bank managers can over-ride a "rule" and help you out, but you have to be honest with them---don't let them do a credit check and find out that you defaulted on something and make yourself look like a liar and credit risk. Let them know you accept responsibility for your past actions which resulted in negative action from the bank---DO NOT BLAME THE BANK FOR CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT AND REPORTING YOU TO CHEXSYSTEMS!! You will not only look like a fool, because they can look into it and find out exactly what happened, but they won't trust you and they'll see you only as a risk. Also---avoid the "big" banks---Chase, Bank of America, etc.--and try a smaller, regional bank. They often aren't as strict and as stringent as the larger banks. Plus---nowadays, the big banks are in serious trouble and won't want one iota of risk to be "signed up". Banks WANT to open up accounts for clients---they want more customers, this way they are able to get more money to use. Try opening a savings account as well---banks look more favorably on people who have savings accounts and they see that you make deposits regualrly and that you leave that money in there. Even if you deposited $20 a week, it will make you look better. But---the idea is that you have to deposit the money and LEAVE IT THERE!!! Don't deposit $100 in a month and then withdraw $99 on the 30th of the month to buy a pair of shoes........

If you got a job, of course your husband is going to want you to contribute toward the household expense---and, quite frankly, isn't that fair? You make it sound like if you worked and made money that he is the bad guy for expecting you to give him the money to help pay the bills......Why should he work his ass off, carry the load, and then let you pocket all the money you make? If he would expect you to give him money toward the expenses, it sounds like he WANTS you to get a job. Showing a serious interest in the financial situation, and a willingness to WORK TOGETHER to resolve it, would go a lot further in improving the relationship than complaining that he has a bad tone in his voice or that he is impatient or that he doesn't spend time with the kids. How many hours a day or a week does he work? I can't remember if you said he works at home----but I do remember you saying you thought about getting a job for the opposite shift that he works. You say he has 3 days off a week----so I suspect he work 10-hour days. Could you get a job 2 days a week, part-time, and have him watch the kids, leaving one day for you to spend as a famly? And, just because he "doesn't like" watching the kids, tough s**t---he'll have to get used to it!! Sitting down with him expressing your interest and motivation to make a budget and stick with it would probably make him feel a whole lot better too. Keep a record of every single dime that goes out every day, every week, every month. Keep a record of what your income is. Work out a budget that is acceptable for both of you----and, for right now, make that budget TIGHT, TIGHT, TIGHT. Don't go blowing money that you don't have, on stuff you don't need or don't need to do. Look for sales in the grocery store and use coupons. There are lots of "free" activities that you can find to do with the family---there are coupons everywhere for free admissions and/or discounts for the circus, movies, zoo, etc. A park is free. Playing outside is free. A Blockbuster night is relatively inexpensive. Every dollar counts!

There is A LOT of information that I don't know, so it is hard to "advise". For example----if your husband is working double shifts and juggling to get the bills paid and is the sole person taking care of the finances, it is absolutely understandable that he would be cranky. Why doesn't he like watching the kids? Does he work nights and needs to sleep during the day, but can't because you are going out to lunch with your friends? You say that he "works so much". Is he simply exhausted? I don't have to tell you that when we are exhausted, our patience is shot, we get cranky and nasty and all we want to do is sleep and not be exhausted. Many times, it gets taken out on the people around us---and, it is not meant to be, but it is. Another question I have is: What was his feeling about your youngest child being born? Was it a planned pregnancy, or a surprise? A newborn/infant exhausts you, between round-the-clock feedings, crying, colic, teething, etc. etc. etc.

You want him to be nicer. And, I bet he wants you to stop spending money. I am certainly recognize that taking care of 3 very young children and a house is not a difficult job, because it is. However, I think you are "babied-out". You are becoming overly critical, and are looking to your husband to meet all your needs---and he can't do that because he is exhausted from working so much. We cannot expect another human being to meet ALL our needs---we have to work on meeting them ourselves in order to be happy. If you had other things to focus on, such as your own job, your own friends, your own interests, you probably wouldn't be so bothered by your husband's actions, and you may very well be a bit more understanding about what he is going through. I suspect that you really have no idea about what the REAL financial situation in your house is----and if he is carrying that load himself, that is enough to kill somebody with the stress. The nap situation reminds me of someone who is going through Chinese water torture---wanting to take a nap, being exhausted, and not being able to sleep because the kids are being noisy is terrible---it would cause aggravation that just goes up and up and up, and makes him think that you do not care about him because if you did, you would keep the kids quiet. You say that you were outside "half of the time"---just because you were outside doesn't mean you were being quiet. And, yes, there are toys that make certain noises that can drive a person batty!! Should he have throw it through the window? Absolutely not. And of course something like that would scare the kids----but you know what? They'll get over it!! An explanation and apology for throwing the toy through the window should suffice for them. It sounds to me like he has reached the end of his rope---put yourself in his shoes. If it were you, what you would want/need to make you feel better?

He has a past history of alcohol abuse and infidelity. Why do you suppose he was drinking? Why do you suppose he was unfaithful to you? What was he mad at? What happened after that whole thing? I am not condoning anything---but I believe there are underlying issues here that need to be revealed and dealt with ON BOTH YOUR PARTS. You stayed with him during these times---but what about times that he may have "stayed with you" when he didn't want to? Perhaps during the spending sprees where you spent all the money? Do you think the fact that he can't trust you with money is contributing to the stress that he is feeling? There is definitely something wrong when he cheats on you on your son's 1st birthday. You guys are skating on top of thin ice---with a sea of issues under that thin ice that, sounds like, have never been truly dealt with and there has been no "closure" of those issues. Those issues need to be put to rest, and not resurfacing in other places where the ice has cracked. Don't overwhelm yourselves either. Address one issue at a time---don't lay out a laundry list to each other and expect the other person to work on all those things at once. One thing at a time----baby steps. I am sure that you have just as much that needs working on as he does. Plus--you want your kids to grow up being honest with you, not pointing fingers and blaming others for their problems, being able to talk to you and communicate with you when they need help or support, and you certainly don't want ot teach them that it is okay to run away from their problems and/or abandon the people they love for dumb reasons. Don't you want to teach them how to be part of a team, how to watch each other's backs and be there when somebody asks for help? I'm sure you do.

You have a certain sense of "security" with him, because he is making the money that enables you to stay at home and feed yourself and your children. He has a sense of security because you are at home, cleaning the house and doing his laundry and taking care of the kids. But, deep down, you don't trust each other.

What do you think you identify most with as a woman? For example--being a mother, being a wife, or something else? A lot of women, when they have children, lose the ability to be the woman they were before----all they see themselves as is a mother and forget that they have a husband and in a lot of cases, a career. Their husbands feel that they have "lost" the woman they fell in love with, and constantly talking about diapers, naps, nursing, carseats, school, etc., is more than they can take, sometimes. There has to be balance in your life---that is why you cannot rely on your husband to meet ALL your needs. You have to identify what your needs are, and then think about ways you can get them met. And, don't say your husband just needs to be nice and everything will be fine. There is a lot more to it than that---but you have to find the time to sit down for a period of time and COMMUNICATE with your husband. You can't have a 2-minute conversation and expect everything to be solved. You have to either put the kids down for a nap, or have somebody watch them so you can have UNINTERRUPTED time with your husband to COMMUNICATE about what is going on and why he is so unhappy and why you are so unhappy---and not when both of you are already exhausted and would rather sleep for 4 hours than talk. Both of you should write things down---like what your needs are, what the other person is doing (or not doing) that is driving you crazy, what you both need to make you happier and bring the stress level down. You should endeavor to do this at least twice a month, preferably once a week, and "check in" with each other and record your progress. No kids, a quiet house and you and your husband sitting across from each other truly COMMUNICATING!!! Both of you, most likely, have a laundry list of stuff to talk about. Once stuff is laid out on the table for both of you to see, you can being to tackle things. Marriage and relationships are a lot of work on both sides---people get complacent, people fall into bad habits, and they become apathetic. You will not get anywhere if you are getting into fights over if you want Chinese or cheesesteaks for dinner...........plus, that isn't even the issue. There is a REASON that you two are fighting over stupid stuff over and over again. Get to the bottom of it.

One more question that begs to be asked----If you moved out of state (which you admit was not his fault---whatever that is about I don't know, but you side-step that issue which could be one of the underlying problems) and 95% of your problems went away, then why did you go back? I doubt that anybody drives away from a tornado in their town toward safety right into a tornado in the next town over. And, what "problems" can go away just with an interstate move? And how long did you stay away before you went back? I'm just curious.

Again, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't take this as an attack. If you went to see a counselor, any psychologist worth their salt would be direct and address the issues---which is what I am trying to do, just be direct and address the issues. I don't pussyfoot around and I say it as I see it. Some like that, some don't. At work, they love it because everybody knows where they stand with me, and nobody has to wonder what's going on. Trust me--they know. And we have an excellent working relationship. Do you know why? Because I COMMUNICATE with them. I don't yell, I don't throw stuff, I don't intimidate them in front of their co-workers. If I have a problem, I let them know face-to-face and in private. This gives them the opportunity to think about it and make whatever changes are necessary. The same should hold true in personal life too.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

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Originally Posted by *DianeMarie* 

I still think the money is the main issue here, and I find it interesting that you only touch on that topic briefly. Your main beef is his tone of voice, impatience, bad attitude...........if I just had a car repossessed and spent $5,000 in savings, I'd have a bad attitude too!! Are you at all concerned about your financial situation? You don't seem to be.

if this was ONLY an issue during times of financial stress then I would understand that. No, im not concerned with our financial situation, because 1) we always come out on top 2) he is freaking out and one of us needs to stay level headed about the situation. He CHOSE not to pay the car, wanting to use the money for other things, thinking he could just "catch up" in a few months. It was foolish on his part.

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YOU need to find out what the underlying cause of all this is.
I WANT to find out. but I don't think it's really MY responsibility to find out what is wrong with someone else.

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Perhaps if you showed an interest and concern about resolving the financial issues his attitude would change.
you mean saying things like "You must be really stressed about work being so slow lately. I have some ideas for ways to keep the bills down I'll start working on. Let me know if there is anything I can do."

because that's the kind of stuff I say. and then regret saying because he gets upset about me bringing it up.

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Working together instead of bailing out will do a world of good----because I think you two have a long history, and that shouldn't be thrown away willy-nilly.
im not throwing it away willy nilly

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You admit that your initial post was a lot of emotional grief, and once you calmed down you could think better. That happens with everybody. I have a feeling that you get upset quickly as well, and then you and your husband feed off of each other, so to speak.
it takes a lot to get me to the point of emotional grief, so it's not like he just says one ting and I get upset quickly. This has been going on for months, probably almost a year now (even when we were doing financially great) and I'm just not at my breaking point.

re:food: there would have been no right way to handle that situations. passive or assertive would not have mattered. in the end, I'll end up the bad guy.

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I also think you are feeling lonely and cooped up. You need to find some friends so you can get out of the house---whether that be through finding some groups to meet with regarding your children(you mentioned you had a child with special needs), or finding some people to hang out with who share some of your interests---but, interests that are not SHOPPING.
I did. PS- haven't had the shopping problem since before I got pregnant with my now 1 year old. I was talking about a past problem that explains the current situation. I agree with how he handled the money issue for this reason, but its not like it's a problem I still have. My friend and I go to the beach a lot, sometimes with the kids, sometimes without.

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Again----I think that getting a job would be a GREAT thing: You would be getting away from the 24/7 housewife/ child-care thing, and doing something that will give you some autonomy and feelings of productivity. I sense that you don't want to work based on your statements of having medical problems and still nursing your youngest child----in my opinion, saving your marriage and keeping your family together by lightening the financial load on your husband is the most important thing.
actually I DO want to go back to work. i love working. i used to be a workaholic before I had kids and can't wait to go back. I am just looking for a job that will not interfere with my health and will not cause more stress (if im working away from my kids for 50 hours a week only to bring home $50 after child care and transportation then that causes more stress then it relieves.) there are things I CAN do, thats what im looking into. Really, at this point it's upsetting to read your posts. When you overcome lukemia come talk to me. it's not so easy to just say "oh well who cares about my medical problems" and throw it to the wind. Count your blessings, I count mine. I have a long list of medical conditions because you are just never the same after having cancer. It's not someting that they just fix and then everything is kay and you can go on life as if nothing ever happened. maybe thats the case for some people but I had a lot of other "body failures" in consequence to my previous condition.

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Lots of women who are still nursing work out of the home and they make it work.
I know, I used to be the sole provider in our home after both my son and daughter were born. It wasn't until our third child that I became a SAHM.

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But---you have to show some initiative and motivation to actively want to contribute and make things better, instead of running away and bailing out.
It's not what I want to do, I am just being practical and wanting to have a plan in case one day its what I need to do. Because its been a while and things are getting worse not better. I've shown a lot of initiative. Maybe I was wrong to try to get support from strangers. I didnt go to the people I know in real life because they are so close to it, they see how I kill myself trying to make this relationship work and I don't want to tell them I don't have much left in me anymore.

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You definitely have a major part in the financial demise situation, with your addiction to shopping and overspending, and then having your bank account closed and hurting your credit situation.
This was YEARS AGO. seriously. We've been WELL back on our feet - mostly thanks to the money I HAVE MADE - NOT HIM. And even before that the shopping problem (which occurred during and after the pregnancy of my second child) was me overspending the money I was making. Not saying its okay but instead of assuming whatever you think is going to make me a monster (then claim you are just trying to understand) ask instead of making assumptions and assuming the worst of me.

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In your response regarding your bank account being closed and reported 5 years ago, and that "they aren't supposed to do that over such a small amount of money and that short of a period of time...."----ANY creditor can report a one dollar payment that is one day late!! There is no rule or law about that!! And of course, if you overdrew an account $30 or $40 for 2 months, they are going to close the account and report you to ChexSystems and you aren't going to be able to open another account because you are a credit risk to the bank and banks don't like to lose money. They view that as a default, to not put that money back immediately and bring your account into a positive standing. For $30 or $40, I would have begged, borrowed and stolen to get that money and get your account back into a positive status! You are blaming the bank for something that YOU did!!
SHOW ME. SHOW ME WHERE I BLAMED THE BANK! I DONT BLAME THEM IT WAS SOMETHING I DID I KNOW THAT. I WAS YOUNG AND VERY VERY STUPID. I wouldn't have stolen to put the money back but I would have worked harder to get it back. The fact is THE BANK told me it was weird that I got reported to chexsystems so soon for such a small amount and THEY told me that really wasn't the purpose of chexsystems. maybe they lied to me. I didnt exactly go looking into it BECAUSE EITHER WAY I SAW IT AS MY FAULT SO IT DIDNT MATTER IF IT WAS THE NORMAL OR NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

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They didn't do anything wrong by closing your account and reporting to ChexSystems---I am sure if you read about the rules and regulations of having an account, you would find this written in there. (Is there a pattern being formed here? I did notice that in one of your posts that you said that you had talked to him about things, and he did some "blaming" on you.....Did you "blame" him? I suspect you did.
your suspecting is not really showing you to be a good person on the inside right now.

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Blaming someone else takes the burden off the "blamer" and relinquishes responsibility of having any contribution to the situation.) Unless you have overdraft coverage (which you aren't going to have if your credit is crappy), overdrawing an account is a MAJOR bad sign to a bank. You have shown your irresponsibility with money and creditors don't like that----and, it sounds like your husband doesn't like it either if your name isn't on a joint bank account!!
my name CANT be on the account because of what happened. thats why its not on the account. and im not BLAMING anyone. GEESH YOU ARE LIKE THE QUEEN OF BAD ASSUMPTIONS!!!

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Apparently, he doesn't want to co-sign or guarantee an account with your name on it, because he can't trust you with money and because he doesn't want his credit ruined, which is totally understandable.
he ruined his own credit and my own long before he became the financially wise one of the bunch









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What you should do is get a job, and then get a secured credit card that reports to the big 3 credit reporting agencies to work on your credit. You put however much money you want into the credit card, and it works like a debit card---it is not a "credit" card, because it is using youe money that has already been deposited, or "secured". You should forget about asking a friend to open an account---you should concentrate on getting an account opened in your own name. If it has been 5 years, go to a bank and see if you can open an account----and BE HONEST!! People like it when you are honest instead of hiding things and not being upfront.
I AM FREAKING HONEST. GEESH DONT IMPLY IM FULL OF CRAP OR ANYTHING. I TOOK MY KIDS TO THE AMUSEMENT PARK LAST SUMMER AND I COULD HAVE GOTTEN THEM IN FOR FREE AND I TOLD THEM "NO THEY ARE OVER THE AGE SO I HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM" AND GAVE THE $60 TO COVER BOTH THEIR ADMISSIONS even though my friend thought I was crazy because they obviously didn't care.

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DO NOT BLAME THE BANK FOR CLOSING YOUR ACCOUNT AND REPORTING YOU TO CHEXSYSTEMS!!
OKAY I WILL *CONTINUE* TO DO THAT.

As for looking like a fool, my husband lied on an application for a place to rent once and it caused us a lot of problems and I told him he should just be honest about our financial situation but he didn't want to. So I know all this. you aren't telling me anything new but maybe you are ripping the wrong persons head off. It was my calm attitude and honesty that got us a place to live after he pulled that stunt.

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If you got a job, of course your husband is going to want you to contribute toward the household expense
of course thats fair and I wouldn't have it any other way if we are staying together and i have an income of COURSE its going to go towards the house. You are putting words into my mouth and honestly im sick of it so if you are going to continue on this path then please just stop trying to "help" me (ie judge me without having an inkling of what the hell you are talking about)

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There are lots of "free" activities that you can find to do with the family---there are coupons everywhere for free admissions and/or discounts for the circus, movies, zoo, etc. A park is free. Playing outside is free. A Blockbuster night is relatively inexpensive.
and that's all we do. free and cheap activities (now that money is tight, when we had money we did do more expensive things) anyway, we do those things, of course its more ME doing those things with the kids (the playground and the beach a lot) because DH doesnt do anything that involves the kids.

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There is A LOT of information that I don't know, so it is hard to "advise".
hard to advise, easy to pass negative judgement though.

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For example----if your husband is working double shifts and juggling to get the bills paid and is the sole person taking care of the finances, it is absolutely understandable that he would be cranky.
he works 4 days a week.

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Why doesn't he like watching the kids?
they are loud and uninteresting to him.

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Does he work nights and needs to sleep during the day, but can't because you are going out to lunch with your friends?
I dont often go out to lunch with my friends but when I do we bring the kids or her mom babysits for us. Like tomorrow we might go to the beach (we havent had a day out together in 3 or 4 weeks) and her mom is going to watch the kids at her place.

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You say that he "works so much". Is he simply exhausted?
yes hes exhausted. and he should be. but not as much as he is and that doesn't excuse his days off. He gets more sleep then I do.

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What was his feeling about your youngest child being born?
it was planned, and it was the first child that was his idea to have.

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A newborn/infant exhausts you, between round-the-clock feedings, crying, colic, teething, etc. etc. etc.
sure does, but that affects me, not him.

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You want him to be nicer. And, I bet he wants you to stop spending money.
cool, so he got what he wanted - YEARS AGO- and I still haven't.

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We cannot expect another human being to meet ALL our needs---we have to work on meeting them ourselves in order to be happy.
honestly, i dont care if he does NOTHING at all to help me or does anything for me, I just want him to BE NICE TO ME.

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If you had other things to focus on, such as your own job, your own friends, your own interests, you probably wouldn't be so bothered by your husband's actions, and you may very well be a bit more understanding about what he is going through.
I am an avid reader, I just wrote an entire full length novel (rought draft) in 6 weeks which has been my major focus over the weeks (of which he has shown no interest in reading even one part of it - even though he knows this was one of my lifes biggest ambitions) I show total interest in the things he does, even things i am not interested in I find awe in his enjoyment of those things.

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I suspect that you really have no idea about what the REAL financial situation in your house is----and if he is carrying that load himself, that is enough to kill somebody with the stress.
I know he made about $1500 this week, which more then pays our rent. About the same last week, which pays the rest of our bills, and still has 2 weeks pay left for other things. Where the money is going that he couldnt have paid for his car I dont know. The two weeks before that his work was really bad and we had to use savings to pay. We are not totally screwed - he just had a few bad weeks and realized that we have to work on our finances more so we don't end up tight on money again. we've been in worse situations and been happier. Im not going to let a drought of money excuse his being unkind to me for the last year when most of the year has been good financially

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makes him think that you do not care about him because if you did, you would keep the kids quiet.
good luck with that. What should I do, remove their vocal chords? I do my best, thats why I took them outside, where he couldn't hear them unless he has some kid of supersonic hearing and if thats the case the sound of the refridgerator running would have been just as loud as the kids outside and that would have kept him awake too.

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Should he have throw it through the window? Absolutely not. And of course something like that would scare the kids----but you know what? They'll get over it!! An explanation and apology for throwing the toy through the window should suffice for them.
an apology from my husband is not going to happen. and I don't want him to share the excuse either (since his excuse was that my son made one of his twitchy faces and it pissed him off because he can't deal with the gestures of a special needs child - which he did not say even remotely as nicely as I am saying here, but it hurts to think about his word choice)

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It sounds to me like he has reached the end of his rope---put yourself in his shoes. If it were you, what you would want/need to make you feel better?
obviously i dont know because ive been trying and trying and even asking what he wants and then doing everything he says and still no luck.

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He has a past history of alcohol abuse and infidelity. Why do you suppose he was drinking? Why do you suppose he was unfaithful to you? What was he mad at? What happened after that whole thing?
Whole story: We lived in an apartment complex and he used to like to barbeque. I would go down to the barbeque with him but I didnt stay outside because there was an old guy who kept coming to join us who creeped me out. (my husband says the guy offered him money to do sexual things and my husband declined) I couldnt stay out there with the kids and this guy becuase he was giving me a bad vibe. DH was mad that I wasn't "hanging with him" I was also pregnant at the time. So, because I didn't want to "party" with him, him and my friend left after my sons birthday. I was in bed sleeping already. I woke up to the sound of her baby crying (hey thanks for letting me know you were leaving your baby at my house while you went out to cheat on me with my husband!) the baby had fallen out of the stroller. So my neighbor (not the creepy guy of course) watched the kids while I looked for them. I didnt know what time it was yet, I thought they were still at the pool. but they weren't. so i looked in the parking lot, no car there. Tried calling them both - no answer. they came back around 5 that morning. That was the first time he cheated on me. It continued for a while, and thats when my shopping problem started, partly to make myself feel better but mostly it made me feel worse. Eventualy I became completely withdrawn from the relationship. I couldnt get past that he cheated on me. At that point he had already stopped. Then he started trying to make it up to me. At the time he was still denyng cheating on me. He didn't admit the truth until after we separated, and only because the ex-friend finally admitted it to me. they said they didnt want to tell me because it was a mistake (that happened many times) but im not an idiot... they weren't exactly too bright about it. there are a lot of finer details involved as well about their get togethers but this post has been long enough. We did end up getting back together, obviously. things were good for a while, now back to this.

now I understand why he doesn't trust me with money - but by the same token, I don't trust him all the time either. We have to rebuild that trust if this relationship is going to work. I know that stresses him out that I don't trust him. It's hard to trust him because he lies a lot - to everyone - and he's good at it, so sometimes i wonder if he is lying to me again too.

I've been jumping through hoops for some time now. Now I feel like you are holding the other side of my husbands hoop. I guess you can relate to him, but what you say isn't helping me understand that kind of person more, its just showing me my husband isnt the only person like that.

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But, deep down, you don't trust each other.
at least you got something right









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What do you think you identify most with as a woman? For example--being a mother, being a wife, or something else?
hard question - i dont think about myself as a woman more of as a person. I see myself as a wife, a mother, a sister, a daughter, a friend, a writer, a photographer, and sometimes even a philosopher of sorts









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And, don't say your husband just needs to be nice and everything will be fine.
I don't think that, but I do think that if he was nice, but if he was nice then we'd be able to deal with the things that arent fine together.

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There is a lot more to it than that---but you have to find the time to sit down for a period of time and COMMUNICATE with your husband.
been there done that. many times. we usually sit at our computers and send emails back and forth because we both express ourselves better that way then when we try to talk and then no one can be tempted to interrupt. The thing is that when we communicate I try to only focus on what I do. and he only focuses on what I do. so that doesnt work. So then I try to explain some of the things that are hard for me with his behavior. He wont be accountable. I just get excuses. Excuses that range from "if you would only" (and then I do what he says and nothing changes) to "well I cant help it" but I know he can because he has in the past.
Communication takes two people. I am willing. If he isn't willing I cant MAKE hi. please try to wrap your mind around that.

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One more question that begs to be asked----If you moved out of state (which you admit was not his fault---whatever that is about I don't know, but you side-step that issue which could be one of the underlying problems) and 95% of your problems went away, then why did you go back?
I didn't, I still live here, and it's gloriously wonderful!









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Again, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't take this as an attack.
easier to do if you aren't attacking me.

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Do you know why? Because I COMMUNICATE with them. I don't yell, I don't throw stuff, I don't intimidate them in front of their co-workers. If I have a problem, I let them know face-to-face and in private. This gives them the opportunity to think about it and make whatever changes are necessary. The same should hold true in personal life too.
I do the same thing, only I don't make assumptions assuming the worst of people before communicating.

***beyond this, I am not going to debate my life with you anymore. I don't blame you for being unable to understand the situation, but so far the posts have been an irrelevant interrogation that helps no one. If you need to reply beyond this to provide your rebuttal about who I am, what my situation is, and what my problem is, then you go ahead, but I felt it necessary to tell you this now, because part of me feels bad if you are really taking the time out for my sake to type those long replies, I don't want you to waste any more time. If you are doing it for your own sake for whatever reason, feel free to rant on, just know I can't justify anymore of this ridiculous nonsense with any further replies of my own. It's just way to far off base and if you don't get it by the end of this post then you're not going to and you probably don't want to.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Anyway, all that aside, an update on the situation:

I am going to go back to work and my husband picked up a 5th shift at work. My friends mom will babysit for cheap if I work nights because the kids would all be in bed. I'm still going to keep working on the relaitonship - im going to look into that book on how to fix relationship when the other person doesn't want to do anything to change themselves. I'm going to save up some money so that if things don't change I can leave. Nothing has changed on what I would do if I left - I'd stay nearby, he could see the kids whenever he wants, and I wouldn't be going after to him for money. I still need to think about things though... I have to decide where it is I draw the line, because if I don't it's too easy to find yourself in a situation that is unacceptable but not do anything about it, so I think I need to know ahead of time what I think it just taking it too far on his part. I know we both need to work on ourselves in the relationship - the hard part is when you are the only one willing to do that.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I'm sorry you got slammed. It happens as there are all types here. Some get your situation some don't. It never helps to argue point by point with someone because if they dont' get it, they just don't. If it doesn't apply to you and you know it, just move on to the next post. I get that you're stressed and looking for help and it hurts to be so misunderstood, but it's just part of online advice.









There has to be a way for you to get a bank account. Have you gone into every bank around and tried? A local credit union? Maybe a distant small bank? ING orange account? If my brother has an account, I know it can be done, his checks bounce on a regular basis and some were even sent to the prosecutors office. I've bounced plenty and have an account.

A tip for dealing with your husband...maybe it'll work. My husband is one of those people where if you apologize to him, he gets riled up. It's like "Ok, I've got justification and I'm going to run with it." He's a wonderful husband/person/father, but he has that weird quirk. So, I never apologize. If he mentions something that he thinks I did wrong, I change the subject or somehow find a way to blame him. It's wrong, I know, but I do it so we can get along. If I were to apologize and he would say "oh,no biggie" or something, that would be nice, but that's not how he works. I don't know which one you are in this equation, but maybe you can figure that out. I also never answer a question directly. I answer every question with a question until I know all I need to know to give an answer. It drives him crazy, but protects me from him being aggravated that I don't understand what he wants, which usually starts an argument. It also gives me time to think about what I want to say. My husband is french and so we have different ways of approaching things.

It seems like your husband is passive aggressive and you are set on defending yourself. Next time you feel that he's about to ask you for coffee with his "cute" face, ask him first. Just as an experiment. Don't get into a fight over it, just see how it's handled. Start dealing with your relationship and the conversations, arguments as an observer. Make a plan to absolutely NOT defend yourself. Even if you're wrong, don't defend. Use many less words when you feel an argument coming on. Read up on how to deal with passive aggressiveness.


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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

I hope things get better for you. I don't feel like you were slammed. People are giving their opinions about your situation and trying to help you. I hope you don't take what I am about to say the wrong way. IMO, You don't seem to be able to see your DH's side at all. You're blaming everything on him. You have an answer for everything and are coming off seeming very defensive. I know it's hard to get tones across on the internet so I may be way off. But if you are acting like *this* at home, maybe he's just as disappointed in your behavior as you are in his. And maybe he is just as sick of you as you are of him. I went through a similar thing after my 3rd child was born. For some reason she really changed the dynamics of our home and money needed, responsibility, stress levels, noise levels... We worked through it and all is well now. Packing up sneaking money and running away with the kids wouldn't have helped my situation at all. I think you need to figure out how to communicate. There are things bothering both of you and you need to know what each other is thinking whether you stay together or not.

Anyways, hang in there. I think getting a job is a good step in what ever ends up happening.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

On getting a job.

think outside the box of your training. is there just some silly part time job you can do while your husband watches the kids? I work at a grocery store. while I was married hubby watched them or his mom. even as a single mom I have only had to pay child care2-3 in tha last 12 months. but lets go back to when I was married since you are married.....

I got a job at a grocery store 2 miles from my house.

clothes were an initial expense of about $150. i needed things I didnb't normally wear but certainly could wear other places. casual and easy care. and that much money bought several sets.

I made $8 a hour starting. worked 15-20 hours a week. that was about $600 a month. that covers gas for the car. groceries and other consumables and fun stuff.

Since it was close I didn't spend much on groceries. also I could do almost all my errends at the store, kept up on sales and specials, got new ides for food etc. this saved me quite a bit.

Once a month I get 10% off my groceries. this works out to about $40 a month. for 10 months.

have I mentioned there was no child care and since I am not bringing in a lot I was tax exempt. woohoo.

I have worked there for 3 years, landed a sweet position as starbucks barrista or greeter, both super easy, i get tips at starbucks (averaging a $1 per hour in unreported income) and milage when I deliver groceries and work as a greeter (I went 28 miles and got $15 and my expense for driving was about $4). I make $10 an hour. and do almost nothing. flexible schedule, have become a social butterfly, and get to do my shopping without my kids. yeehaw.

there are lots of other jobs that are handy, have flexible hours and offer some sort of incintive like a discount (something like target or walmart would be a good place to work for the discount.) and allow you to dress casually.

so these sorts of jobs may pay less or be less than your dream job but in the end you may end up clearing a lot more money because of the flexability and convinience they offer.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I'm sorry you got slammed. It happens as there are all types here. Some get your situation some don't. It never helps to argue point by point with someone because if they dont' get it, they just don't. If it doesn't apply to you and you know it, just move on to the next post. I get that you're stressed and looking for help and it hurts to be so misunderstood, but it's just part of online advice.









thanks







:

Quote:

There has to be a way for you to get a bank account. Have you gone into every bank around and tried? A local credit union? Maybe a distant small bank? ING orange account? If my brother has an account, I know it can be done, his checks bounce on a regular basis and some were even sent to the prosecutors office. I've bounced plenty and have an account.
I'm sure there is, it's really only my fault I haven't done it already. I think the whole idea is overwhelming and I need to just focus on one thing at a time instead of looking at a long list.

Quote:

A tip for dealing with your husband...maybe it'll work. My husband is one of those people where if you apologize to him, he gets riled up. It's like "Ok, I've got justification and I'm going to run with it." He's a wonderful husband/person/father, but he has that weird quirk. So, I never apologize. If he mentions something that he thinks I did wrong, I change the subject or somehow find a way to blame him. It's wrong, I know, but I do it so we can get along. If I were to apologize and he would say "oh,no biggie" or something, that would be nice, but that's not how he works. I don't know which one you are in this equation, but maybe you can figure that out. I also never answer a question directly. I answer every question with a question until I know all I need to know to give an answer. It drives him crazy, but protects me from him being aggravated that I don't understand what he wants, which usually starts an argument. It also gives me time to think about what I want to say. My husband is french and so we have different ways of approaching things.
I hear what you are saying. its a weakness of mine. I always apologize, even when things aren't my fault... it took a long time for me to get to the point where I feel like no, I don't have to take on everything. No, it's NOT *ALL* my fault. My husband is the same, say you are sorry and he runs with it. nice that someone understands.

Quote:

It seems like your husband is passive aggressive and you are set on defending yourself. Next time you feel that he's about to ask you for coffee with his "cute" face, ask him first. Just as an experiment. Don't get into a fight over it, just see how it's handled. Start dealing with your relationship and the conversations, arguments as an observer. Make a plan to absolutely NOT defend yourself. Even if you're wrong, don't defend. Use many less words when you feel an argument coming on. Read up on how to deal with passive aggressiveness.
I do offer him coffee first sometimes, it's one of the things he does respond well to. Then of course, he makes it sound like the only thing I ever do for him is get him coffee. there are attempts to make me feel inadequate. I feel like I spend a lot of effort trying to build up his esteem and he uses the confidence to knock mine out of me









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ackray* 
IMO, You don't seem to be able to see your DH's side at all. You're blaming everything on him.

actually, the entire situation is a result of taking the entire blame on everything. I took that class in grade school too seriously. The whole "I" statement thing. So I'm always looking for what *I* did wrong in the situation and I'm just getting to the point where I realize this is NOT working in this particular relation ship.
If he lit a match and set the couch on fire and I tried to put it out and failed, and I apologized for not getting the fire out in time he would let me take the whole blame on the fire without batting an eye. I just can't be that person anymore that shoulders all the blame. Account needs to be put where it is due. I am accountable for what role I play. I know I am not perfect. I work hard on myself. I work to communicate, to understand his needs. When he tells me what he needs I do it. And I should. But that doesn't mean he should just keep being mean to me or that when I accept accountability for what *I* have done that it means that I am accountable for the whole kit and kaboodle.

As for at home, I rarely call him out on what he does. I think that is the problem. And when I do I always start with what I did wrong first and in a non attacking manner. I say things like

"I know you must be exhausted, but a helping hand would be great right now. If you can't it's not big deal." I'm walking on eggshells. Why do I do that? because I've tried not walking on eggshells. In the end, the results are the same though, so I don't know why I bother either way.

Or I say,
"I understand how you feel. I get really really frustrated with the kids sometimes too. I really need you to be the calm one when I'm at the end of my rope though. I ask for your help because I feel like I'm the weaker link at the moment."

I never, ever, say anything about anything he has done without first saying what I did wrong. and often times, I don't say anything about what he did at all, but sometimes yeah, I will say, "I know I'm stressing you out when I keep asking you to do this. I don't mean to nag you but it still hasn't been done yet and I just want to make sure you haven't forgotten." anytime i remind him of something , I am "nagging" him, and I kid you not I MAYBE hand out a reminder after at least 2 weeks has gone by and he hasn't done something he said he'd do tomorrow. then another month goes by im afraid to get chewed out for reminding and I say something and get chewed out again and promised another tomorrow. Then I DO start nagging him, and it gets done, and he's all grumpy I nagged him telling him I only have to tell him once.

Him forgetting? no big deal.
him not wanting to be nagged? no big deal.
him forgetting and chewing me out every time I remind him when he obviously isn't remembering on his own: big deal - especially the way he choose to chew me out.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Then there are things like this:

He wants me to wake him up for work each day.
Everytime I wake him up he gets pissed, because it takes several tries and he's mad I am nagging him to get up.
If I don't wake him up, then he gets pissed. If he missed work because he didn't wake up, then it would be my fault that he missed work.
His take is that it's my job to wake him up because the whole reason he has a job is to pay for me and the kids and if I don't care if we end up homeless because he loses his job for missing work then it's my fault because I should have woke him up.

I have no problem waking him up. I just don't like being forced into doing something that makes him be mean to me.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm just going to say it again he is acting abusively. Here's another website that might be helpful www.youarenotcrazy.com


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

thank you, I am looking at that site now.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

the link is really informative so far - I can relate to so much I just don't think he does these things on purpose.

some of it makes sense too... like if I am talking to him about the weather instead of responding to what he knows I am talking about he will correct me for pronouncing a word the wrong way when he knows im already having a hard time expressing myself and instead of just putting that aside and having the conversation with me he is laughing at me. In a serious conversation I think content is more important to focus on then whether or not someone is saying potato or patoto.


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## Rosedotcom (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:

I have no problem waking him up. I just don't like being forced into doing something that makes him be mean to me.
This is easily fixable. Get an alarm clock. Don't set yourself up every morning.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommysarah5* 
Then there are things like this:

He wants me to wake him up for work each day.
Everytime I wake him up he gets pissed, because it takes several tries and he's mad I am nagging him to get up.
If I don't wake him up, then he gets pissed. If he missed work because he didn't wake up, then it would be my fault that he missed work.
His take is that it's my job to wake him up because the whole reason he has a job is to pay for me and the kids and if I don't care if we end up homeless because he loses his job for missing work then it's my fault because I should have woke him up.

I have no problem waking him up. I just don't like being forced into doing something that makes him be mean to me.

Yeah, you can't reason with this...it's just not reasonable. Refuse to wake him up, or insist that you will only tell him once and that's it. Some people love to be "wronged" and there's nothing you can do that will make them think that you haven't wronged them somehow. Everyone knows people like this, you just happen to be married to one. Just out of curiosity....does he send his food back at restaurants often?


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rosedotcom* 
This is easily fixable. Get an alarm clock. Don't set yourself up every morning.

yes but the alarm doesnt wake up and he blames me. I can not do it, and I know I am not wrong, but that doesn't mean hes going to be nice to me.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

no, actually, he doesn't do this to many people. mostly just me. everyone else it seems the opposite - like they can do no wrong in his eyes.

Thank you so much Lavendar - now I know I'm not crazy. That site, it was like reading about my husband in so many parts...

This example:

Abuser: Why is it taking so long to get out of the house?
Partner: I think the kids are still searching for their mittens.
Abuser angrily: I didn't ask you!
Partner: What are you angry about?
Abuser with rage: You knew it was a rhetorical question!

I could have written that!

And the thing about "bad jokes"

and just a lot of the info on there, it's weird...


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## Rosedotcom (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:

yes but the alarm doesnt wake up and he blames me. I can not do it, and I know I am not wrong, but that doesn't mean hes going to be nice to me.
Yes but he isn't being nice to you either way. Let him wake up on his own a few mornings with the alarm clock. He'll learn.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rosedotcom* 
Yes but he isn't being nice to you either way. Let him wake up on his own a few mornings with the alarm clock. He'll learn.

no, he'll just blame me for losing his job and try to "stick it to me" but probably still find a way to buy his cigarettes. I'll try this once I have a job and we can afford for him to lose his. I really don't want it on my shoulders that there is no money for groceries or rent. I realize he knows this, and this is why he does that, but I kind of feel backed into a corner right now.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Okay.... Eileen must have dated my husband before I married him. I'm reading the conversations, but I really suck at the whole "reveal abuse" thing.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Lavendar- is there a section on the site that tells you how you should respond to these things? It's hard to rehash what happens here clearly, but some of you seem to understand... He controls the conversation... I don't know what else to do? If I ignore him he's mad I'm giving him the cold shoulder, if I take all the blame he just shines on the opportunity to rub in how its all my fault, if I point out what he does he just turns it back around to be about me again. We could be talking about elephants and somehow he'll make it about confetti. I know I'm not explaining this well, but you seem to actually understand the situation, so if you have any advice on how to respond to him in these situations I'm all ears.


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## Rosedotcom (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:

no, he'll just blame me for losing his job and try to "stick it to me" but probably still find a way to buy his cigarettes. I'll try this once I have a job and we can afford for him to lose his. I really don't want it on my shoulders that there is no money for groceries or rent. I realize he knows this, and this is why he does that, but I kind of feel backed into a corner right now.
Can you set the alarm earlier than normal so he has a chance to be woken up by the alarm and you can be the back up? You might give yourself a little more power if he's forced to wake himself up.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

That's a good idea. I'd still end up waking him up every time (we've done this before) but it's worth a try. though, then he'd probably tell me it's fauly he doesn't get good sleep because the alarm goes off to early...

One time he was supposed to pick me and the kids up from the airport. I was 16 or weeks pregnant, and had 2 toddlers with me. I ended up trapped at the airport for several hours because he was sleeping. I called and called and called and called but he didn't answer. Even my family tried called when I realized my phone was going to die (they lived too far to get me themselves - they were the ones I had just taken a plane home from visiting) He ended up mad at me for having my family call him.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rosedotcom* 
Can you set the alarm earlier than normal so he has a chance to be woken up by the alarm and you can be the back up? You might give yourself a little more power if he's forced to wake himself up.

But it's not really about the alarm or how to do it better. There's no way to do it right in her case. He's not going to wake up for her and he's not going to take that responsibility on himself and he will blame not waking up on her. There's no getting around it or doing it right.

OP, I don't think your husband can kick you out. He can refuse to pay the bills and rent, but that hurts him too. He can refuse to leave and you'll have to deal with the divorce that way. Worst case scenario is that you all get evicted and get another ding on your credit report. You keep taking this all on yourself saying your backed into a corner. He's bluffing. He can't kick you out. If you're worried about it, ask the police if he can kick you out. Even if you're not on the lease, he can't kick you out. Get a legal separation and temporary custody orders. You can go to your states supreme court site and search for link until you get to how to file for all of these things. Look at how to do it and see if you can do any of it yourself. Delete all downloads and history, Clear your trash. Clear cookies afterwards. OR do all of this at the library.

The moms over on the single mothering board have all been here and done this. You should ask some questions over there.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

thanks, its hard to get out of the habit of not trying to figure out what I can do differently... I know he's capable of having a good relationship, i just wish we could get back to that, i wish there was something I can do. Im not trying to be impossible though - it just seems like there really is nothing I can do sometimes, like no matter what, I could take the best advice from this thread that some people are so sure would work - but he's still find a way to be mean


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm so sorry you got some rather...not so nice responses. I know where you're coming from since I've been through it myself. Heck, even now that I'm divorced, I STILL hear it-my ex keeps making a big deal out of the fact that he has no furniture (I kept the kids furniture and the living room stuff; he took the bedroom stuff and most of the kitchen stuff), yet he makes $30 an hour, works full time...and guess what? He just bought a big screen plasma TV. But its my fault he still doesnt have furniture.







: Nevermind that we're sleeping on the floor, on a futon mattress, and have NO other bedroom stuff-and no income at the moment. The sad thing is, we'll most likely replace the stuff he took well before he gets himself stuff.

Some people absolutely refuse to see themselves as having any fault in anything. He's one of those people. I understand learning to get around and work with someones personality-I mean, even my fiance has this quirk where something small will make him mad and its like...wow, why? But I've learned how to get around it-I just go in, kiss him, and tell him to stop being so emo, until he smiles.







But it sounds like your husband is really LOOKING for something to start. He wants to fight. He wants conflict. Or, at the very least, he wants to make you feel like crap, which is definately abusive behavior.

I'd definately get yourself a job. Even if you cant save any money up for moving, you can at least already have a job if you do leave him.

My fiance told me once that when a guy feels guilty or is doing something he knows is wrong, they'll get snippy over everything. They try to belittle you, because they dont like knowing they're wrong. Obviously he's home most of the time right? So, I doubt he's cheating on you now, but maybe he kept cheating longer than he admits? Perhaps he is just thinking about doing something, which makes him feel guilty? I dont know...I never, ever thought my ex cheated on me until I found out I had an STD last week. How humiliating...even moreso that I had zero clue.

Anyway, if I were you, I'd start making plans to leave, but just hold off saying anything yet. Keep trying to make it work if you can. Maybe he needs you to just become an uncaring UA violation for him to see what you do for him. I mean, trying to be caring hasnt worked, right? (By the way, I tried that and all I got was complaining, it didnt make him see anything different)

I dont know what else you can do. Good luck~


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Thank you so so much Cari. For sharing with me and for offering support and understanding. Your advice on getting the job just in case even if I can't save money you are right, thats a really smart move


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## aiccerb (Dec 25, 2006)

s:


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

i read your conversations....stop apologizing. he is abusing you and you are laying yourself on a platter for him.

your replies drag out. you trip over yourself in your rush to be the bad guy.

instead of going all drawn out, try:

'take the baby' period.

'do you want food?" period

he is grabbing at everything you are giving him. obviously he is responsible for his behavior and it is wrong no matter what others have said on here, but you can do a lot for yourself by not playing into it.

you are doing the verbal version of flinching before being slapped. he knows he has you.










me, personally, i would tell him to get out and come back when he has signed up for help of some sort. again, even your original question comes from a perspective of being the bad guy...you and your innocent children shouldn't even consider being tossed onto the streets. he needs to get his butt out of there.

here's my take: he's abusive, always has been abusive. you are just now learning from this thread what 'abusive' means. he has you emotionally under his thumb b/c you had an issue. he is twisting your mistake to abuse the heck out of you. you feel like you were in the wrong and you are taking it. you've hit your limit for tolerating it, but you believe he is the winner in this game so you are trying to run away.

change your perspective. i guarantee he won't change his.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks claddaghmom. I know they say, the first act of war is defense.. it's hard not to try to "show him" that im not the bad guy he thinks i am. I am going to take your advice of just giving simple statements and dropping it.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I agree with everything Claddaghmom wrote. I hope you understand that a lot of people really have no clue about abuse and so their advice although well intended is not going to be helpful and could in fact be more damaging to you.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

I see that Lavendar lol. Thanks though, because there were still a lot of people who gave me great advice and direction. I feel a lot better, now I just have some habits of my own to break... the habit of letting myself be the bad guy.

Thanks again to everyone who took the timeto reply and to those who offered support, encouragement, and great resources and information. I feel better and I don't want to clog up the parenting board with this post anymore. Great group of peopel here


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