# "Is there a father?"



## GreenGranolaMama (Jul 15, 2009)

Blowing off steam... DS and I went to a new playgroup today, although we already know many of the families there because we also attend story time at the library. Another Mom (that I've never met before) asked me ' so is there a father ?' today, in conversation, and I couldn't help but be insulted!

Yes, of course there is a father, thanks to genetics we all have fathers, so the proper way to ask would be 'is his father involved' which I find to be highly intrusive and rude in a "Hi I'm new here, I'm so and so, how old is your baby?" kind of conversation!

And yes, I'm married, so yes, his father is very involved! Maybe it's because I'm 25 and in jeans that folks feel like it is appropriate to ask questions like this? Would people be asking me this if I was 40 and in a suit?

Am I weird to think this might be a rude question? Am I being defensive because I am, in fact, younger than the majority?


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Was there "a father" with the asker's kid? Where i lived when i was a single mother seriously 90% of the ladies at the groups were also alone, so it was a normal thing to be asked early on (i too was a bit shocked the first time, but realised after i stammered, "yes, but we're not together, but he's very involved" and she launched into her story that she was looking to bond rather than judge). Also it might, sadly, be to do with your age, or rather how old you appear to be. I met a girl in the street last month who was chatting away to me as if i was one of her direct peers and it eventually transpired (when she said "WOW, you OWN your house, you must have worked HARD before you had the babies!") that she had taken me to be 22 or 23 (i'm 30!).

Try not to be offended. It could be that the person was judging and mean, but in that case there's no point wasting energy on feeling hurt by them, and it might be that she was trying to connect and it was just a bit weird.


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## jksmith (Nov 17, 2010)

Yes, that's very rude. I have had similar things happen to me, probably because I'm 27 but look younger and dress pretty casual (like you have a choice with a giant belly!). Mostly it's been people referring to the baby's dad as my boyfriend even though I am clearly wearing an engagement ring and a wedding band! (we've been married for three and half years).

I've also had a lot of people, including family, strangers, and friends, ask us if it was a planned pregnancy. I feel like this is a very personal piece of information and nobody's business, but have felt compelled to answer anyway that we did plan for it. For a lot of people it was the first thing they asked after we told them. Does anyone else think that's inapppropriate?


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

People ask all sorts of stupid things, trying to make conversation. Try not to let it get to you!


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

People ask stupid questions. I try to remember that when I get assinine comments. Doesn't always work, but I do try.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I think it's a very rude question to ask, and I probably would have told the person so, nicely. She may not have mentioned it maliciously but IMO she needs to know it's not nice. Some people really are socially clueless and don't get why people are offended by very pointed questions.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

I wouldn't view it in any other way than someone's unartful way of inquiring about your family structure.

Quote:


> Would people be asking me this if I was 40 and in a suit?


I've seen a general pattern on here that somehow old people (like myself) are immune from randomly inappropriate or inartfully worded comments. Not true. Us old people have our own issues.







Given divorces, number of single parents and same sex couples in my area, it is not so unusual for a father (biological or otherwise) to be absent or relatively missing from the immediate family unit. Should people express themselves better? Yes. Would I spend too much time thinking about it? No.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

It's very rude and I would have been very bothered by the question. I have a big mouth so something sarcastic would have come out of it like "the baby daddy put a ring on it" and rolled my eyes. Half the time I don't think people mean to be rude but really don't know any better.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Its rude. Why is she so interested?

How about this, 'do they have the same father?', when and/or if you have another child...it could get worse


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## 5gifts (Nov 16, 2005)

Yeah, I guess if your young - I was once a 20 yo mother - they wonder if 'there's a father'

Now, being old with 6-8 kids in tow at any given time...'Well gosh! Do they all have the same father?!?'


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Oh I've had this happen. I even was hit on at a church event







. Granted I haven't been wearing my wedding ring. My fingers swelled at the end of my pregnancy with DS, then I lost a lot of weight and now being pregnant again I don't want to risk it getting stuck (smaller one I have) or lost (larger one)

I think the oddest way asked was pointing at Dh "is that the father?" I answered "yes that is my husband" then the person asked "Oh was this planned" meaning did we get married because we were pregnant. Um no, we'd been married for almost 3 years when DS was born.

People can be rude, but then I think there are a lot of people now a days who aren't married or got married because of pregnancy. So maybe its just morbid curiosity. I'm hoping now that I'm having more the questions will stop. (like they all look the same so must be the same dad kinda thing)

ETA: I also look young...I was asked once about being a teen mom was I was 26 (she was polite I forgot about that until now...)


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

it could have just been the person awkwardly trying to feel out your situation and whether you had a partner who wasn't a father-- there seem to be lots of same sex couples in some areas more than others (not implying this is you but is another situation that could lead to a question like that)


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Team, "it's rude". It's far too personal a question, leaving aside the way she worded it! Genetics, indeed, LOL! "No, it was an immaculate conception."


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I wouldn't view it in any other way than someone's unartful way of inquiring about your family structure.
> 
> ...


Right. Like, "did you have IVF?"


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

My ballet teacher from high-school goes to the church my dad and younger sisters go to. DD and I go with them for special occasions, and if she's there and always starts talking to me and probing to see if DF and I are still together. I guess in her mind if you have a kid together you get married, and since DF doesn't come to church with us, he must not be in the picture.


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## Mommy2Austin (Oct 10, 2006)

Yeah rude and obnoxious...just let it roll off your shoulders.

I went to a breastfeeding mom's group at the local health department and was asked if my children have the same father. My oldest looks like me and my middle child (who was about 4-5 mo at this point) looked and still is the spitting image of his father. Being the environment I was in and who "normally" use the resources at the Health Department, they expected that since they didn't look the same they had different fathers. I just told them the truth and rolled my eyes about it later.


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## cyclamen (Jul 10, 2005)

Yeah, I'm in my late 20s and when my daughter was born (she's not even 2 yet), people kept asking me if I was a teen mom. I get a lot of questions when we're out and about on public transport about if the dad is in the picture.

And on Monday, I had a guy on the street ask me in the middle of the day ask me where my daughter's father was. "He's working," I told him. You know, where you'd want your kid's father to be in the middle of the day, as opposed to at the bar or something.

"Oh that's too bad. I was hoping I could help you out."

Ye-haw, what? Now there's a pick-up line if I ever heard one.

That said, whenever people call my boyfriend my husband, I find myself automatically correcting them with, "Actually, we're not married." No real reason. I love my boyfriend, we plan on being together for life, but we're not married.

Forget kids, adults say the darndest things.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

yep its rudeand I usually have a smarta$$ comment too. When i was pregnant with ds I had a lady in the store ask me if I knew who the father was (she followed mefir several aisles before asking me this) I was married but separated due to his abuse, and pretty sensitive about it so what ended up coming out my mouth was, "as long as we're sharing personal information, what size bra do you wear?" she turned beet red and that was the end of that.

now that I have 2 people usually tell me, "good you have one of each so you should be good and done now." I usually reply, "why would I make that decision at 23? I have my whole life ahead of me." I really don't get it. A lor of people think I'm a teen momand an equalnumber seem to assume that I'm unemployed/on welfare. I always enjoy setting them straight, lol.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

"Nope, no father. You may refer to him as Lord and Savior. Thanks."


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## A_Random_Phrase (Mar 27, 2008)

Most definitely rude.


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## jammomma (Nov 17, 2008)

What an incredibly rude comment.And it had nothing to do with how you dress, or how old you are, or anything else like that. It had everything to do with someone who lacks tact and maybe even was trying to make you feel bad in some way. Avoid that woman, she sounds toxic.


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## A_Random_Phrase (Mar 27, 2008)

Blizzard babe and waiting2bemommy, hilarious!


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blizzard_babe*
> 
> "Nope, no father. You may refer to him as Lord and Savior. Thanks."


You've made my day!


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## Attached2Elijah (Jun 27, 2004)

I don't know... she might be the kind of person that just didn't think before she chose her words.... she might have meant "Are you married?" but it came out completely wrong and she might be doing a palm/face over said question right now.  I know I've done that on more then one occasion... I'm not good in public settings and meeting new people. I get nervous and say dumb things... I'm actually very well-educated but you wouldn't know it upon first meeting me, lol.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think it's sort of a weird way to ask the question, but I wouldn't be offended for people to think I was a single mom - any more than if I was a single mom and someone assumed I was partnered.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I think its kind of weird to ask about the father at a first meeting. Like pp suggested, I usually have some sort of fun comeback when people ask about our kids mothers.

The last time someone asked if my kids had a mother I told the person "They hatched from eggs we found in the chicken coop."


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

It's only rude if you assume there's something wrong with not having a father in the picture, or if you think information about who is in your household is so personal that you might not want to share it with someone you've just met. It sounds like a lot of people posting on this thread do think one or both of those things, but I don't, so it doesn't seem terribly rude to me. She probably just wanted to give you the message that she didn't necessarily expect you to have a husband, and wasn't going to judge you if you didn't. Maybe she knows a lot of moms who have female partners, or who are single by choice. (Maybe she's one of those moms.)


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I think it's rude to assume something about a family, and a question like "is there a father?" assumes that there is not father. Which as someone all ready pointed out, is not actually logical. There has to be a father somewhere. Unless we want to get into some fairly complex theoretical but not proven ideas of what is possible with human reproduction. And really, what is wrong with learning things about people by just spending time with them?


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> I think it's rude to assume something about a family, and a question like "is there a father?" assumes that there is not father.


I don't think it assumes there's not a father - it just recognizes that there might not be. Which is perfectly reasonable, because there isn't always one. (I mean, of course, the sperm came from somewhere, but there isn't always someone the baby is going to call "father.")


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that question is very rude and I think you should have called her on it. When I was pregnant one of people at my church asked me if I knew who the father was after walking into half of my conversation and hearing I was pregnant and I chewed him out for it. Ironically he got his girlfriend pregnant not very long after that. I also get probing questions about how my dd was conceived at work because I look about 10 years younger than I actually am. The assumption is that I had some kind of tryst and accidently conceived my child. I find it very offensive and I make that very clear. If I want to share with someone the circumstances around my marriage and divorce that have led to me not caring to mention the jerk I married I will volunteer the information. It is a painful and sore subject normally and I don't go around wanting to relive it to people who are nearly strangers to me.


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

When my oldest was a year old we moved to the town dh grew up in. I had just turned 24. People didn't ask if I was a single parent when dd and I were out. They ASSUMED and proceeded to treat me as if I'd done something wrong. Some of them even asked what school I went to. I finally got tired of it and just answered with the name of the school I worked at. A co-worker walked up just then and people asked him if he'd met me. He said "Yes, I work with her" It turned some faces red. I'd much rather be asked than treated in a way that NO ONE should be treated just because people are judging.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Rude.

I like the term "inartful" that someone else used.

People are inartful all the time. I'm sad to say, I've said stupid stuff myself sometimes. I hope I'm not the only one.

Who knows what was behind the question, but malice is only one of a zillion possibilities.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

It is rude. I have 5 kiddos and have probably heard it all. I was asked by a nurse if I wanted my boyfriend to be in ther delivery room when I had my oldest. I told them no...that my husband might get upset. I have been asked if all of my children have the same father. And recently a woman a my children's new school looked and my baby (who has dark hair) and said I sure hope your husband has dark hair.... It gets old. I have been married for almost 16 years and all the kids are my husband's, but how that is anyone business but mine and his I do not know. Actually, I hanged up on the census worker for asking if my 5 year old was related to my husband biologically or by adoption??? How in the world would that matter to them....


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

it is very rude and I do not think your age has anything to do with it. I was 21 when I had my first and looked about 12. No one ever asked me where her father was or if she had a father. however, being a single mom does not have the stigma it used to. Maybe, being a single mom is a perfectly valid choice from her perspective and that would make it a very matter of fact thing to ask and would imply no judgment and not be rude. I guess it would all depend on ow she asked and why.

However. Now that I am single (and 36) I get the whole "do they all have the same father" grrrr like that is anyones business..


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## Mrs.Music (Jun 15, 2010)

I have 2 kids... I seriously had someone (at a party I was at WITH MY HUSBAND) ask if the kids were both his. They are only 2 years apart, and I'd been married 3.5 years at the time... It was odd. That is nothing compared to the stuff I have encountered at hospitals. When I had my DD, they didn't even bother to ASK if I was married. So later when someone came in to get some info for the birth certificate and such, they said something about my being single so I'd need to get a paternity test... And I had to correct them. I was pretty offended. Same hospital, some weeks later in the NICU, my husband was asleep in the chair next to my daughter's isolette and I was standing up right next to it on the other side and some woman came over and started making sure I had support from my family and what-not... I didn't have the heart to tell her I wasn't an unwed teenage mom. I was only 19 and I look young so it wasn't really her fault. And there are several similar stories, in and out of that hospital. It gets more amusing than offensive after a while because you just realize that people don't know how dumb they are being, and most of them don't even mean to be rude. Generally, being corrected puts them in their place. They are embarassed.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm 22, was 21 when DD was born, and I could easily pass for 12-14, so if I go somewhere with DD and my mom people automatically assume DD is my mom's baby. I also was grocery shopping with DD a few months back and had been walking back and forth a bit (forgetting to get stuff while I was in that isle) and this woman who works there, who had seen me walk past her at least 4 times asked me if I "was pushing the cart for [my] mom?" I told her I am the mom and she said "you don't look old enough to be a mom". um, I know I look young for my age, but people basically telling me I shouldn't have a kid because they think I'm too young without knowing how old I am really gets on my nerves.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I was asked that once at Mainly Music. It was worded rather more tactfully though - "Do you have a partner?", I think. The woman who asked was young, like me, and I wasn't offended - just said "Yeah, I'm married" and vaguely waved my wedding ring at her. (I should stop doing that, actually. It tends to unnerve people.) But if I got the vibe someone was asking in a salacious or disapproving way, yes, I'd be offended. And "Is there a father?" is definitely not the best way to phrase it!

I love the bit in Children of Men where the first woman to conceive a baby in however many years... who happens to be a teen mum - is asked about the father. She looks all dreamy and says "There was no father", and when they gape at her she bursts out laughing. It's awesome.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I do! I definitely think inquiring about family structure is too personal for small talk. In the hospital, or elsewhere if needed (I'm having a hard time thinking of where but I'm sure there are times) "I need to ask you a few questions about your marital status and family structure for the paperwork," will suffice as a polite introduction to such questions. Outside of it, people will explain when they're ready.

Quote:


> if you think information about who is in your household is so personal that you might not want to share it with someone you've just met.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I think it is an odd question. I don't think it would matter if you were older and dressed conservatively.

I suppose the person may just be awkward and wanted to make conversation.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Yeah, its rude, and yeah its obnoxious, but trust me, being a young mom it happens a good bit. I was 22 when DS1 was born and 25 when DS2 was born, and I've gotten those sorts of questions more times than I'd care to remember.


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## pranava (Aug 11, 2007)

It depends on the reason for asking if it was rude or not. My DS was donor concieved and has two moms - no father. Frankly, I would rather get that question than have others just assume there MUST be a father. I'd say, give her the benefit of the doubt until you get to know her better. Maybe she was trying to be really open minded and not offend you by assuming there was a father.


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## MissMaegie'sMama (Jul 27, 2006)

IMO, asking this question of someone you've just met is in poor taste. However, I also understand that some people are given to verbal diarrhea, so the question isn't necessarily snarky or judgemental. No matter what, it's an inconsiderate question that would make a lot of (perhaps most) people feel uncomfortable and/or offended.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jksmith*
> 
> Yes, that's very rude. I have had similar things happen to me, probably because I'm 27 but look younger and dress pretty casual (like you have a choice with a giant belly!). Mostly it's been people referring to the baby's dad as my boyfriend even though I am clearly wearing an engagement ring and a wedding band! (we've been married for three and half years).
> 
> *I've also had a lot of people, including family, strangers, and friends, ask us if it was a planned pregnancy.* I feel like this is a very personal piece of information and nobody's business, but have felt compelled to answer anyway that we did plan for it. For a lot of people it was the first thing they asked after we told them. *Does anyone else think that's inapppropriate?*


Yes! My MIL loves that question.







So, so, so rude, and so, so, so none of their business.


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## HeliMom (Jan 14, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> It's only rude if you assume there's something wrong with not having a father in the picture, or if you think information about who is in your household is so personal that you might not want to share it with someone you've just met. It sounds like a lot of people posting on this thread do think one or both of those things, but I don't, so it doesn't seem terribly rude to me. She probably just wanted to give you the message that she didn't necessarily expect you to have a husband, and wasn't going to judge you if you didn't. Maybe she knows a lot of moms who have female partners, or who are single by choice. (Maybe she's one of those moms.)


Yeah I like to attribute the best possible intentions. I'm also trained by my non nuclear family friends to not assume that any parent i meet is a heterosexual in a committed relationship.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I was asked by a nurse if I wanted my boyfriend to be in ther delivery room when I had my oldest. I told them no...that my husband might get upset."

That is an awesome response.

I have been known to ask "do you have a partner?" and I think that that's an OK question for the new member of the playgroup or the preschool to have to answer. (Not so much the lady you are standing behind in line at the grocery store.) But honestly, usually it just comes up in conversation whether they do or not...

I HATE any family structure question that uses the word "father." All children have fathers, duh. There is no useful information that can be extracted about a new friend's home life by asking her to affirm the biologically obvious. Same goes for asking the two gay dads about the mother. WHAT KIND OF ANSWER ARE PEOPLE EXPECTING TO THIS QUESTION?


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## AngelsNPrayers (Dec 30, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom*
> 
> Rude.
> 
> ...


I like inartful too. I at first thought it said infartful whick also works lolol


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I wouldn't view it in any other way than someone's unartful way of inquiring about your family structure.
> 
> ...


One of my friends had a baby at 41. She also had a daughter who was 21. She said someone asked her whose baby it really was, as if she faked being pregnant to cover up the fact that the baby was her daughter's, not hers.

So yeah, I think everyone gets their share of weird/rude comments about a number of topics! Who knows, maybe that lady has a single parent support group she wanted to invite you to or something. Or maybe she just is rude. Don't let it get you down!!


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I got that alot as a teen/young mum. And it is not appropriate.

And the answer was always yes, right up until I got divorced. And then people felt it was fine to start saying "Those kids need a new father." or "I dont envy you being a single mum"

And I know I woudlnt have faced those comments if I looked older then I do.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I'm 38. My daughter is five. My husband and I have been married for about a hundred years (not really, just feels like it some days).

People ask me some version of this all the time. I don't wear a wedding ring, I guess they are looking for a polite way to ask.

I guess a lot of people have figured out that a father is not always a given and assuming every woman with a child is also happily married to a man is rude, but they haven't quite worked out what to do with that information.


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I am going to be 30 this year (look young for my age). I have a 4yo and a 20mo. Here I don't get too many comments, although occasionally people assume I am the au pair not the mother (lots of au pairs here). But in the US, I find people just assume so much and don't censor. People here probably make assumptions too but have stricter social politness codes. =)

Regarding the "was it planned?" Hate that question. Dd1 was in fact a surprise. This was apparently taken for granted by all who knew me. But my dad's gf asked if dd2 was planned. I think this question is so intrusive. I makes me want to reply with "no just having sex for fun and ooops!"

And love the pick up line some one got. Hilarious. Also love the Lord and Savior comment =P


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## shnitzel (Jan 6, 2010)

People`s assumptions can be so funny at times. I had my daughter at 22 but because of how I dress I look very religious and people have constantly asked me since the day she was born "how many other children do you have?" I was 22 with a newborn, why would you assume I have at least another 2 kids!


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> One of my friends had a baby at 41. She also had a daughter who was 21. She said someone asked her whose baby it really was, as if she faked being pregnant to cover up the fact that the baby was her daughter's, not hers.


Soap operas aside, how feasible would that be?? I mean, not only would the mother have to pad her tummy, take time off work and so on, but the daughter would have to do some serious corseting and then disappear for 4-5 months, if they were serious about nobody finding out. I mean, all it would take to let the cat out of the bag would be for someone to see the pregnant-looking daughter out shopping... It would be quite an impressive feat to pull off, let's just say. Anyone know anybody who's done it? 

Quote:


> People`s assumptions can be so funny at times. I had my daughter at 22 but because of how I dress I look very religious and people have constantly asked me since the day she was born "how many other children do you have?" I was 22 with a newborn, why would you assume I have at least another 2 kids!


Heh. I am religious, and had my first daughter at 21. Now I'm nearly 25 and expecting number 2. Ran into a "quiverfull" guy the other day at a church event; he's the one who told us it was "about time" when we got pregnant with DD (after five months of marriage). He noted approvingly that I was pregnant again, and said "So how many kids do you have all up?". I admit it was kinda fun to say "This is baby number two" and watch his obvious disapproval/disappointment/curiosity.  Yes, a lot of people in our social circles are quiverfull, but that doesn't mean we all are! And it's his business why, anyway? (Not to mention that even QF couples can have big gaps between kids. Another QF-ish lady at our church was sympathetic about my "infertility" problems at one stage... sigh...)


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

When I get a question that I see as rude or inappropriate, I usually just look at them with a curious look on my face and instead of answering say, "That's an interesting question, why do you ask?" I get all ranges of answers, but mostly people don't seem offended by me asking because I don't seem pissed or defensive, just curious. But what they ALSO get is the underlying msg of "You're gonna have to explain that question, cuz so far I ain't feeling like answering!" but in a "nice" way! 

And sometimes there really is a good reason they ask, and I'm fine with that and willingly answer. Other times it's based on a bunch of presumptions or biases and I either just wrap up the conversation or I keep saying "That's an interesting assumption, but it doesn't apply to me. Wow, that kid over there is really good on the jungle gym!" (Re-directing is often good too, if you totally feel like it's way out of line).


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

I get asked 'intimate' questions being that I'm a ****.

"Who's sperm did you you?"

"Did you use a turkey baster?"

"Who's the real mother?"

"Did you cheat on your parnter with a man?"

"Where did you get the baby?"

And then when they find out we got pregnant via IVF, they keep asking.

I admire people's curiosity and their gumption. The more power to them!

If I'm uncomfortable, I say so. That usually shuts them up. But more often than not, I'm game.


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

I would think rude,but maybe the lady just worded it wrong.Similar to when people ask," Can I go to the bathroom?" instead of saying may I. Some people are twits and they really are trying to be rude.Hard to believe some want to be,because it pleasures them to cause others discomfort. The moment always passes for me(to respond well),but if you are good at snappy comebacks then go for it!


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## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

It's probably rude but I've been asked so many rude questions that I've just given up on caring.









For example, here it's a VERY common to ask strangers almost immediately if they are planning on having more kids... the thing is I was getting most of these questions less than a month after I had a miscarriage. NOT a fun time.









I've also gotten asked more than once if I was DD's nanny. Yes, I'm "young" (I had DD when I was 26 so I'm not THAT young but we live in a nicer neighborhood where almost all the moms work outside of the home so I think most of the moms are quite a bit older than me) but it's still not very polite...

I've also gotten asked about 5 minutes into the conversation if I'm still nursing DD (extended nursing is very common here). I don't find this one quite as rude but it still seems pretty personal to me considering DD is 2...

I don't know, I've just gotten over it. Some of these things bug me for a bit but normally I forget who even asked them in the first place and go on with my life. I haven't been asked if I'm a single parent ever (I think most people assume I'm a SAHM because I work from home and am around with DD sometimes during the day plus I dress pretty casually too).


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

LOL, I would have cracked up. And totally given that answer, "well you see, to make a baby one needs a father (well, generally speaking)."


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## spedteacher30 (Nov 20, 2005)

my son doesn't have a father--he has two moms and a donor. We are usually pretty open about what we tell people, and we tend to correct people who ask about his father by just using the term donor when we answer the question. When they ask about my husband, I just correct them and say, "actually, I don't have one. I'm married to a woman."

In regards to the census question about biology/adoption, they asked that question because they use the census to anticipate social service needs and both adopted children and blended families access certain types of social services in greater numbers than children being raised by their biological parents.

We actually called the national census office to correctly answer that question--my partner is not biologically or legally related to our son (we live in a state with no second parent adoption law) and it felt weird to say he was adopted since I birthed him.

Anyway, the office told us to say their relationship was biological since he entered the family (we listed ourselves as married--which we are) via biology, not adoption, fostering or random moving in ("other non-relative" is the one our homophobic census taker suggested!)


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

Once at the park a little boy who was about 8 or 9 asked me why my daughter had light hair and I had dark hair. I told him because her father had light hair and she looked just like him. He then asked "do you see him?"







I told him yes, we were married. This was in an area of town where most of the kids probably had absent fathers so I guess that's normal to him. He himself had come with his elderly grandmother who was sitting in her car while he played. He was very sweet, but obviously hungry for attention.

Anyway, I do think that's not a very gentle way to ask such a question though...particularly coming from an adult who should have more tact.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I think its likely that the woman at the playgroup is single and she was looking for some way to see if you were too because she wants to make a friend. Honestly, I probably would have responded with a simple, "yes, DH and I have been married for x amount of time. What about you?" She would realize that her question was rude, just by the fact that you DO have a partner.

As far as this whole "all babies have a father" thing...no. All babies (hopefully) have a parent that cares for and loves them. Wheather or not that person is a "father" or a "mother" is irrealvant. Just because you put some sperm somewhere does not mean that you are a "father."


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> I think its likely that the woman at the playgroup is single and she was looking for some way to see if you were too because she wants to make a friend. Honestly, I probably would have responded with a simple, "yes, DH and I have been married for x amount of time. What about you?" She would realize that her question was rude, just by the fact that you DO have a partner.


I don't get this. Why is it rude to think someone who does have a partner might not have one? Would it be rude to ask, "Do you have other children?" I can't imagine anyone would think so - whether the answer turned out be yes or no. It's a neutral question that doesn't imply any assumption about the other person. I see "Is there a father?" as pretty much the same kind of question. Why would you be insulted by someone thinking it was possible you didn't have a male partner? Is being a single mom or a lesbian shameful?


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> I don't get this. Why is it rude to think someone who does have a partner might not have one? Would it be rude to ask, "Do you have other children?" I can't imagine anyone would think so - whether the answer turned out be yes or no. It's a neutral question that doesn't imply any assumption about the other person. I see "Is there a father?" as pretty much the same kind of question. Why would you be insulted by someone thinking it was possible you didn't have a male partner? Is being a single mom or a lesbian shameful?


I'm totally with you Daffodil. I would not have taken offense at this question because I would have assumed it was genuine interest and perhaps a desire not to offend by assuming one way or the other. It kind of feels like you're darned if you do and darned if you don't in this situation. In a baby playgroup the topic of partners, fathers, etc. are bound to come up, so I totally understand some one asking ahead of time so they don't misspeak later. I get asked a lot of somewhat personal questions, often by total strangers. Especially the "do you plan on having more kids?" It doesn't bother me. Usually it's just other mothers looking for commonalities. The only question that would really feel too personal is "was the pregnancy planned" I wouldn't want to talk about it with anyone except very close friends.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes, her question was rude and nosy. That said, I horrified myself some months ago by asking a mom I'd just met if she was renting or buying her home. She said she was renting, because she was a single mom and couldn't afford to buy.

I couldn't believe that I'd let something so nosy slip out of my mouth! I'd just started attending our area homeschool co-op and, after thinking that it seemed like everyone was way out in the suburbs (we live in the inner city), I was excited to meet this other mom who lived in the city, too. Then I recalled that a lot of folks will rent here for a while, then, when they're ready to buy, they head to the suburbs. I found myself wondering if she was committed to the "hood" like we were, and before I knew it I'd blurted out my question.

I quickly apologized and tried rather awkwardly to explain, and she said something like, "Don't worry, its' impossible to offend me."

Of course it was silly and rude for me to try to gauge her committment to the neighborhood by categorizing her as "buying" or "renting." We ourselves rented here for five years before we bought here.

So, I was rude, too, and I'm ashamed of it. I'm just saying that sometimes people aren't asking questions to judge us in the way that we think they are -- sometimes they may be trying to judge us in a different way, if that makes sense. Whereas my stupid question probably came off as trying to categorize her economically, I was really trying to categorize her in terms of how likely she was to stick around, which, I'll admit, was still wrong.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Can I trade someone a "are you a single mom" type of question for "Are you babysitting your grand-daughter". Um, no, this is my daughter. And yes, I was nearly 40 when I had her, but she's 8 so I'm really not THAT old. Am I?


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> I don't get this. Why is it rude to think someone who does have a partner might not have one? Would it be rude to ask, "Do you have other children?" I can't imagine anyone would think so - whether the answer turned out be yes or no. It's a neutral question that doesn't imply any assumption about the other person. I see "Is there a father?" as pretty much the same kind of question. Why would you be insulted by someone thinking it was possible you didn't have a male partner? Is being a single mom or a lesbian shameful?


Not at all, but some people still think it is.

I am a single mom by choice, so my kids are donor-conceived. There is no father. Yesterday we were on a bus, and a lady sitting next to us asked my five year old what her name was. She answered, then the lady asked what her brother's name was. Then what mom's name was. Then what dad's name was. My daughter answered "momma" to that. It was hilarious.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyclamen*
> 
> And on Monday, I had a guy on the street ask me in the middle of the day ask me where my daughter's father was. "He's working," I told him. You know, where you'd want your kid's father to be in the middle of the day, as opposed to at the bar or something.
> 
> ...












OP: yep, rude question. People are rude all over, no matter what you look like.

She may have had good intentions, as pointed out above. You could always turn around rude questions by saying, "why do you ask?" If she said, "I'm a single mama hoping to connect with other single moms, you look so young I thought you might be..." then you could, if you felt like being helpful, let her know that her question sounded invasive and too personal, and a better way to connect might be to say, "you know, I'm a single mom and looking to connect with other single moms. Let me know if you or any of your friends are single and would like to chat, thanks!"

Or maybe she was just another nosy person asking intrusive personal questions like the people above mentioned.... "did you have IVF?" "do they have the same father?"...sheesh!!!


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## Mommel (Apr 16, 2010)

I have two ways of dealing with questions that I see as rude or potentially offensive.

The first is to answer directly, but I only use this if I am feeling rather amused and not offended or sensitive. For example, a complete stranger at the train platform asked me the other day if I was pregnant. I said yes and left it at that. She went on to ask how old I was, to which I bemusedly replied that I was 38, giving no more information. She then remarked that was pretty old to be pregnant!! I just laughed and said, "yep!" Some days I just prefer to be in awe of rudeness as a novelty... but others?

I've been asked about the father. He and I did plan this pregnancy, but once it was real to him , he bailed under the pressure. I blame him less and less these days, as I am starting to realize how much better off I will be without having to mother him in addition to my son... but still, it hurts. And I would find the question you asked to be somewhat offensive, because the mommy groups here are made up primarily of married stay-at-home moms.

The *best* response I can think of to rude questions is a simple question asked with a BIG smile:

"Why do you ask?"


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## AngelsNPrayers (Dec 30, 2010)

I was asked in the ER last night /morning by the OB Chief if the father was still in my life. I said "no". I was too tired to care but I guess she thought most fathers would be there since I was in pain and 13 weeks preg.

I was half asleep and was thinking "huh? father?"

Later I laughed . I was thinking "oh him" the one who gave me the sperm.lol

I was fortunate that it took in one try with him-awesome!

Baby is fine. I have bum ovary.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

It does seem like a rude way to word a question.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> I don't get this. Why is it rude to think someone who does have a partner might not have one? Would it be rude to ask, "Do you have other children?" I can't imagine anyone would think so - whether the answer turned out be yes or no. It's a neutral question that doesn't imply any assumption about the other person. I see "Is there a father?" as pretty much the same kind of question. Why would you be insulted by someone thinking it was possible you didn't have a male partner? Is being a single mom or a lesbian shameful?


ITA. I might be amused to get this question but certainly not offended.

And for those who are saying that this is a 'rude way to phrase the question,' I'm wondering how it could be phrased so as to be less 'rude'? The question as asked seems pretty assumption-less, any other way I could think of to phrase it would probably be less polite, or else kind of equivalent (eg, "do you have a partner?").


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> I don't get this. Why is it rude to think someone who does have a partner might not have one? Would it be rude to ask, "Do you have other children?" I can't imagine anyone would think so - whether the answer turned out be yes or no. It's a neutral question that doesn't imply any assumption about the other person. I see "Is there a father?" as pretty much the same kind of question. Why would you be insulted by someone thinking it was possible you didn't have a male partner? Is being a single mom or a lesbian shameful?


I don't think it was a rude question so much because of any assumptions behind it (i.e. that it is shameful to be a single or lesbian mom), but just for the simple fact that it is pretty prying and personal for someone you Just met to be asking. Stick around, get to know me, the subject of our household structure may later be appropriate to discuss. But not on a first meeting.


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## teraze (Apr 6, 2011)

OP: I know context is everything, but for me personally, I'd like to think I wouldn't be offended. Perhaps she wanted an invitation to begin talking about her life? I'm new to a group, and I remember what a relief it was to finally be among a group of women with young children and infants and that they just *understand*. About everything. Also, members of mom groups tend to be really good listeners too, so maybe she really needed a vent session? I don't know. I tend to play devil's advocate... It's also totally possible she's rude and clueless! 

I'd give her another chance for sure though.


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## tooraloora (Oct 15, 2010)

I view it as a little rude, but because it's a prying question about one's personal life. I usually respond that my children are the result of immaculate conception.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jenP*
> 
> I don't think it was a rude question so much because of any assumptions behind it (i.e. that it is shameful to be a single or lesbian mom), but just for the simple fact that it is pretty prying and personal for someone you Just met to be asking. Stick around, get to know me, the subject of our household structure may later be appropriate to discuss. But not on a first meeting.


So would it also be rude to ask about whether you have other children then? If not, how is that different from asking about the partner?

For the record, this is the kind of question that I would avoid asking myself on a first meeting because I do recognize that some people are going to find it intrusive. But I have to say that such a reaction does not make sense to me - and I have found myself avoiding entire topics of baby-care conversation in order not to come close to the partner question. It puts a big roadblock in the conversation.

It's mainly because this is the kind of thing that immediately comes up when you are talking about babies (bc what else are you going to talk about when that's what you have in common) - the partner issue is just such a huge part of the picture of baby care.

eg, Mom 1: "I can't figure out when to take a shower!"

Mom 2: "Why don't you have your husband hold the baby while you do that?"

Mom 1: "I don't have a husband..."

Bad move Mom 2, should have asked first! Wouldn't "Do you have a partner" have been a better response?


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## princesstutu (Jul 17, 2007)

I always want to ask women a similar question, b/c I'm a single mom and I'd like to meet other single moms.

But, it's hecka rude, so I never say it.


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## princesstutu (Jul 17, 2007)

And, for the people who are asking why it's so rude:

1. The way the question was asked was, well, rude. If you have different manners, you will have a different opinion.

2. The timing was rude. You don't usually ask personal questions right after meeting someone. You wait to see what the person divulges.

3. You don't even ask if people have other kids. That's rude, too, when you've just met someone!

I feel like I'm in an alternate universe, reading some of these replies. Since when is it appropriate to ask personal questions that are not directly related to the topic and when not giving advice...upon first meeting someone? Good manners dictate that we allow some sort of personal connection to take place before we start asking personal questions. By then, these sorts of personal questions (about children and partner) will have been answered, anyway.

The Facebook Generation. lol!


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> And, for the people who are asking why it's so rude:
> 
> 1. The way the question was asked was, well, rude. If you have different manners, you will have a different opinion.


Hm, I actually disagree with this. My manners reflect, not what *I* think is rude, but what I think *others* may be likely to find offensive or upsetting or what have you. I am incredibly difficult to offend so if I based my manners on my own low level of tetchiness I'd probably be offending others all day long.

Quote:


> 2. The timing was rude. You don't usually ask personal questions right after meeting someone. You wait to see what the person divulges.


(Sideline - Actually this depends on your cultural background, but let's assume North American because most of the posters on this site seem to be.)

Do we know what the timing was? All I got was that it was in the first conversation - maybe I missed some detail upthread. If it were something like "Hi, I'm Jane Doe - by the way, are you partnered?" then yeah that is a bit unexpected. However if it were related to something else that came up in a more extended conversation (as it very easily might be), I maintain that there are many circumstances (as I illustrated in my last post) when it is better to ask than to assume.

Quote:


> 3. You don't even ask if people have other kids. That's rude, too, when you've just met someone!


Really! This I actually am surprised at. It would never have occurred to me that this would be considered a rude question. So what are you supposed to talk about with another mom you've just met if you can't talk about your kids?

Quote:


> Good manners dictate that we allow some sort of personal connection to take place before we start asking personal questions.


How is it possible to form a personal connection without sharing any information? Getting-to-know-you conversations typically involve people sharing some level of personal information about themselves, don't they?


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## Mommel (Apr 16, 2010)

I have something to add to this question of rudeness, for you married ladies, or those who are single mamas by choice and/or have adjusted to their singledom.

Put yourself in the position of a pregnant woman, who is alone, and not by her own choice. She is likely going through a very difficult time and in the process of accepting that she will be going through this alone without support from a partner who she thought would be there and has ditched her for whatever reason.. then add to that the societal shame of being a single pregnant woman (whether or not it should be there, it IS), a single motherhood looming in her future, frightened, alone, likely ashamed, but possibly conflicted for feeling that way when everyone tells her she should be feeling joy, but who also give her pitied looks and gestures of charity, which she may or may not need but probably feels hesitant to accept in order to take responsibility for her own part in getting her to this place... struggling to maintain a positive attitude, but dealing with hormones she has never dealt with before, constantly questioning herself as to whether or not she's taking things too personally, and terrified to offend anyone, but trying to grow into the strength of her own maternity.

THEN... ask yourself if that question from a relative stranger might push a button or two.

I know first-hand how this question feels to a woman in this position, because I am one of those women. Whether or not it is right, single mothers, especially single pregnant mothers, no matter their age or ability, are discriminated against in attitude and reception by the general public, in some geographical areas more than others. If I am out in public with my pregnant belly, many eyes head straight from my pregnant belly to my left ring finger. Some days I wear a ring there, some days I don't... and the difference in reactions is significant. Even if this question is asked of a married woman (as I believe it was to the OP), it elicits a certain degree of defensiveness in those who are aware of this societal prejudice. It is NOT a neutral question. A neutral question might be to ask if you know the sex of the baby... but perhaps in China that would not be neutral either, given their society's wide-spread gender preferences.

Let's face it ladies, our society at large has not evolved the way some of you here have.

I would guess that the questioner had no ill intent, but you might try see how this could hurt, nonetheless... or at least add to someone's stress, if only inadvertently. The question may not have been rude, all by itself, but it is a classic example of how people speak first and think later. If you have not been in the position of a single pregnant woman, you cannot BEGIN to pass judgment on whether or not she should or should not see the question as hurtful or rude.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Interesting conversation. Lots to think about.

Quote:


> I've also gotten asked more than once if I was DD's nanny. Yes, I'm "young" (I had DD when I was 26 so I'm not THAT young but we live in a nicer neighborhood where almost all the moms work outside of the home so I think most of the moms are quite a bit older than me) but it's still not very polite...


Seriously, that's amazing. Maybe because I was 26 y.o. when I had my first. No one questioned my age. But it's kind of funny because on the one hand I was much older than my own mom, my oldest sister, my MIL or all of my husband's sisters. They all had their first children in the 17 to 22 years old range. Mother-in-law worried we'd never have children. On the other hand it turns out I'm the youngest mom of my daughter's friends' moms. So dd thinks I'm a 'young' mom.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't know if it has to do with you being young or not. I think people are just rude regardless. My mom has been asked several times if all four of her kids have the same father - and this was when she was in her 40's (after she divorced my dad). So rudeness at any age. (and yes we do)


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## lovingmylife (Nov 1, 2009)

Yes that really is rude and not her business. I got pregnant with my son when I was 22 and in college and I have been asked the same thing before as well as other rude comments.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mambera*
> 
> So would it also be rude to ask about whether you have other children then? If not, how is that different from asking about the partner?
> 
> ...


Yes, I think it also rude to ask about other children. Basically any questions about your family structure are out of line on a first meeting. Somehow I found plenty of baby-related stuff to talk about without asking about partners or siblings.

and the shower example? I think it is terribly rude EITHER way! I, for one, am incredibly offended by questions that start with "Why don't you..." They always seem to assume that I was too dumb to think of the thing they are going to say. Like, really, who hasn't already thought of trying to have someone else (whether it is a partner or not - and the question can easily be made less intrusive by simply saying, "Why don't you have *someone else* hold the baby while you do that?" - but it is still rude to me because of that "why don't you....") hold the baby so they can shower?? That was about the first thing I thought of! And let me tell you, it NEVER worked! I would just assume they have already thought of that and that for whatever reason it didn't work, otherwise why would they be saying it is difficult to figure out when to take a shower? And the second version -"Do you have a partner?" is, again, rude because it's just a rude question to ask on first meeting. I would have answered "Mom 1" by commiserating and sharing some of my own stories. "Oh, I know! It's just amazing how the simplest little thing like a shower can become such a big deal once you have a baby! I tried everything - handing baby off to my husband or my mom if she was visiting, putting her right in the bathroom so she could see me while she was in the vibrating bouncy seat with toys above it, the exersaucer when she was old enough.... nothing worked. She just screamed bloody murder if I tried to shower. Even if she was napping and I tried to hop in, she seemed to have a sixth sense kick in and she'd wake up screaming! Only thing that ever worked for me was to shower in the dead of night when she was asleep next to my husband, or to hop into the tub with her and try to wash as best I could while holding a baby in one arm."

So how DO you get to know someone without asking intrusive, prying personal questions? Well, I start with small-talk questions about things that don't involve assumptions. If we are at story time at the library, I'll ask how they like this library or how they liked the story. If I see she has a stroller or sling, I'll say something about how pretty or cool it looks and ask how she likes it. I'll compliment her baby for having a sweet smile. I'll tell her how interesting her necklace looks. All of these innocuous things could lead to the other person opening up *if she wants to*. (as in, "thank you, my partner brought this sling back from her trip to Guatemala," or, "this stroller is great! This is my third baby and I only now found a stroller I like!," or, "yes, he has my smile but his daddy's eyes" or, "my ex bought me this necklace and I still love it and wear it even though we got divorced before the baby was born.") (Or- she can just smile and say, "thank you.")

THEN, and this is the important part, I volunteer information about myself. ("we used to go to story time at the other library when my older daughter was little, but my husband got a new job so we moved to this neighborhood." or the whole example above about showering.) So, she just learned a lot about me without having to outright ask, and I opened the door for her to share about herself if she wants to.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I think the question could definitely be rude, depending on the intent of the asker. Often there is implied criticism there. Asking do you have a partner or husband makes more sense, because you are asking about the relationship status of the person to whom you are relating. Asking about the relationship status of the child seems a little more intrusive, not like you are trying to establish a rapport with another adult. On the other hand, I could definitely see someone just thinking about saying something about the baby's father and then thinking, "oh wait is there a father involved, I should establish that."

I've read posts here where people were offended if someone thought she was pregnant, offended if someone thought she wasn't pregnant, offended if someone used the term husband in place of boyfriend, offended if someone assumed they are heterosexual or didn't assume that. So it can be kind of tricky. I ask the questions I think need to be asked, I try to be neutral, if someone is offended I apologize and accept that they don't feel comfortable answering that question. I think that's all you can do.

FWIW, I am over 40 and have had people ask if I was a single mother, and I would laugh and say, "I know it seems that way, but my husband is just really antisocial." Then they are apologizing to me, and that makes me feel bad because honestly, it's not like I've given much in the way of clues that my husband is still alive or involved or whatever.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viola*
> 
> I've read posts here where people were offended if someone thought she was pregnant, offended if someone thought she wasn't pregnant, offended if someone used the term husband in place of boyfriend, offended if someone assumed they are heterosexual or didn't assume that. So it can be kind of tricky. I ask the questions I think need to be asked, I try to be neutral, if someone is offended I apologize and accept that they don't feel comfortable answering that question. I think that's all you can do.


ITA.

Far be it from me to tell anyone they should or shouldn't feel a certain way. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.

On the other hand, we've all got two choices. We can choose to get our knickers in a twist over others' minor infractions, or we can choose to be forgiving to our fellow human beings and try to take things in the spirit in which they are meant.

I submit that when we choose the former route we do more harm to ourselves than to anyone else. If anyone wants to steam and fume over the perceived rudeness of others that is certainly their prerogative, but personally I find my own happiness and serenity are much higher when I don't choose that path. (By the way, FTR I have indeed had it assumed that I was a single mother - lord knows why since I am in my 30s and wear a wedding ring - and I chose to find it more amusing than anything else.)

I see threads on here all the time along the lines of 'Wasn't this so rude?' with lots and lots of people submitting that they are SO OFFENDED. And sure, it's their right to be offended; but again, I wonder: whom are they helping, and whom harming, with all of this offense-taking?


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> 3. You don't even ask if people have other kids. That's rude, too, when you've just met someone!


I can't even imagine that being considered rude. It's just small talk, most of the time, and really just requires a yes or no response if you don't want to give more.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Yeah, the idea that asking anything at all about someone's life is rude is. . .completely baffling to me. I don't even think asking if someone is married/otherwise partnered is rude. I think it can be asked in a rude way, but as long as the asker isn't attaching any sort of positive/negative judgement to it, it's just a request for information that helps people get to know each other better. I'm generally a pretty shy person and don't ask a lot of questions about people I meet, and even I might ask about a partner or children. The best conversationalists I know are the ones who ask lots of questions about the person they're talking to.


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## mambera (Sep 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jenP*
> 
> Yes, I think it also rude to ask about other children. Basically any questions about your family structure are out of line on a first meeting...
> 
> ...


So, very good. This what you have been taught about politeness and that is fine.

Now consider also how this may come across to someone who has been taught the opposite - that it is polite to show interest in the other person, and rude to talk excessively about oneself without directly expressing interest in the other person's experiences. One could imagine that they might feel overwhelmed, or that they hadn't been given a chance to talk about themselves (if they are waiting for a direct invitation to do so in the form of a polite inquiry, rather than realizing that your talking about your own experiences is meant as an indirect invitation for them to do so also).

I have to say that I do not myself usually intuit that people who talk a lot about themselves are actually trying to give me an opportunity to talk. I usually think it is the opposite - that they simply like to talk about themselves - and (assuming that I don't mind listening at the time) I will either stay quiet or ask supportive/interested questions.

I'm not saying either of these approaches is 'right' or 'wrong' - actually I would say there is no right or wrong about this, just people's differing and sometimes conflicting expectations. I think the only approach that really is destructive is assuming that one Knows The Way It Should Be and getting offended when others don't comply.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mambera*
> 
> Now consider also how this may come across to someone who has been taught the opposite - that it is polite to show interest in the other person, and rude to *talk excessively about oneself without directly expressing interest in the other person's experiences.* ....they might feel overwhelmed... they hadn't been given a chance to talk about themselves
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry I didn't make myself very clear! That is not at all what I meant, nor is it remotely what I do in real life! Absolutely it is most important to show interest in the other person, talk about them, and ask questions about them. That was the first thing my mama taught me!

I know my post was a little bit long - I do tend to run on once I get typing! - but I believe I did point out that the first thing I do is show an interest in the other person, give them compliments, and ask lots of (innocuous) questions:

"Well, I *start* with small-talk questions about things that don't involve assumptions. If we are at story time at the library, I'll ask how they like this library or how they liked the story. If I see she has a stroller or sling, I'll say something about how pretty or cool it looks and ask how she likes it. I'll compliment her baby for having a sweet smile. I'll tell her how interesting her necklace looks. All of these innocuous things could lead to the other person opening up *if she wants to*."

Of course, I can see how it would look as though I do blather on about myself from the little example I gave about responding to someone's statement about the difficulty of showering. That WAS a big run-on paragraph, LOL! But that is only because it was a forum post, which is one-sided, and can't show the natural give-and-take of a real-life conversation. In real life I would just start with agreeing - "Oh, I know! It's just amazing how the simplest little thing like a shower can become such a big deal once you have a baby!" - and then let it proceed naturally from there. I only wrote all the rest to demonstrate how I could drop little tidbits of my personal life into conversation so she can find out what she may be wondering (i.e., do I have a partner - now she knows without having to ask, because I just casually mentioned my husband!) without having to outright ask, as well as how to share what solution worked for me without smugly saying, "Oh, you should just do this!!" (I DO realize that being offended by the "Why don't you just..." thing is really just a "me" thing, and that people usually are saying that type of thing from a place of wanting to offer helpful advice. But sometimes people are a little smug which is why I am a bit sensitive about how the advice is framed - is it more, "I know all the answers and now I'm going to share my great wisdom and superior parenting skills with you," or is it, "here's something that worked for me, or for a friend...maybe it will be useful to you?".....and I try to make sure I am not coming across as the former.)

As for, "what good is it to go around getting all offended?" - actually I am NOT offended by personal questions. I don't mind answering them at all. But I do realize that it is rude to ask very personal questions on a first meeting. The potential for making the other person very uncomfortable is just too high, and manners are all about making the other person feel comfortable. That's why I don't ask if she has a partner. She may be going through a divorce and feeling raw about it, or not sure if others may judge her for it, or she may be single or with a same-sex partner and not sure if she may be judged for it. She may just need a little more time to scope me out and see if she wants to share that part of her life with me, and asking her point-blank is going to put her on the spot and make her feel uncomfortable. For instance, there was a woman I had been seeing pretty regularly in a business capacity. She knew I was married with one child and another on the way. She never said a word about her personal life, though we made lots of small talk. Then one day I mentioned how fun square dancing is, and that I was greatly enjoying dancing with our local gay square dance club. Almost immediately she started talking about her same-sex partner! It was just a matter of her feeling that the time was right and she had the comfort level around me to share that information about herself. And I'm all about giving people the space they need for that. Until they want to open up with personal details, I'll just keep on noticing and asking questions about other things about them, like, "those shoes sure are cute! Are they comfortable?" and "Oh, I see you're returning books about landscaping and gardening, are you planning a project? ..You are, how exciting! What plants are you putting in?" and so on and so on....


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I think you're being overly sensitive. Small talk isn't rude. It's ok to ask some of that stuff, even during a first meeting.


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polliwog*
> 
> I think you're being overly sensitive. Small talk isn't rude. It's ok to ask some of that stuff, even during a first meeting.


How about, "They look nothing like you! Are they adopted?" or even "Where did you get him?"


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MittensKittens*
> 
> How about, "They look nothing like you! Are they adopted?" or even "Where did you get him?"


Why don't you let us know how these lines work out for you before we try them, LOL?


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> Why don't you let us know how these lines work out for you before we try them, LOL?


The first happens to me quite often, as my kids look different to me. I also get asked if they are twins, even though one is much larger than the other, LOL. The second, I experienced once when I was babysitting my friend's son, who is Indian. The neighbors knew I hadn't just given birth to a two year old and asked "Where did you get him?" as if I had adopted him. It didn't occur to them that I was just babysitting.

I obviously (to me, anyway!) was not suggesting someone actually ask these questions. I was asking whether being offended by them would make one oversensitive or not.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Just came across this thread.

While the original question may be a bit rude, I would certainly not waste time & energy being offended by it.

And I've been a single (not by choice) pregnant woman!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MittensKittens*
> 
> The first happens to me quite often, as my kids look different to me. I also get asked if they are twins, even though one is much larger than the other, LOL. The second, I experienced once when I was babysitting my friend's son, who is Indian. The neighbors knew I hadn't just given birth to a two year old and asked "Where did you get him?" as if I had adopted him. It didn't occur to them that I was just babysitting.
> 
> I obviously (to me, anyway!) was not suggesting someone actually ask these questions. I was asking whether being offended by them would make one oversensitive or not.


It was obvious to me, too. You seemed to be lumping all these comments in with the "is there a father?" comment. I definitely agree that all those comments are rude in the sense of being things that were better left unsaid. There are certainly better ways of starting a conversation and making small talk.

However, as I mentioned further upthread, I have, on occasion, caught myself blurting out some crazy thing that I wished I could take back a moment later.

So, yes, comments like this are rude -- but, having erred myself, I try not to choose to take offense too quickly when someone says something to me that gets my back up. "Rude" doesn't necessarily mean mean-spirited. Maybe this person could still be a friend someday. Maybe I'll be glad I that I didn't choose to stay offended. I'd rather give people a chance than just x them off my list over one unfortunate comment.


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> It was obvious to me, too. You seemed to be lumping all these comments in with the "is there a father?" comment. I definitely agree that all those comments are rude in the sense of being things that were better left unsaid. There are certainly better ways of starting a conversation and making small talk.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, I have said some crazy stuff before myself! Full disclosure - I am a single mother living in a country where that is apparently not socially acceptable. I don't think I am being overly sensitive if I get annoyed by the latest comment after several in one day about "where the father is". Neighbors really harassed me over it, and asked my very young kids why they don't have a daddy. I have been tempted to say that he died in a tragic accident and starting to cry loudly. I am not a hooker, like some of my neighbors seem to suggest. I CAN pay my bills, thanks - and given the general economic situation in my country of residence, probably more easier than the neighbor asking. I don't want pity, hate, or any of that stuff







.

Sure, a person who makes an unfortunate but not malignant comment is fine. That happens all the time.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

MittensKittens, I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with all that! Where I live, people are not at all suprised about single mothers.

I can see how questions like that would be tiresome and even hurtful. I don't blame you for being sick of it!


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## BrascosPrincess (Jul 14, 2011)

i understand how you feel, i am a little younger than you, 22, and i have 2 children and people look at me all the time like im 16 and have two, and most of the time i go places with my kids alone because my husband works overnights and hes sleeping all day, and they look at me like i dont know who the father is or like hes gone when he is very much involved as well. it annoys me too. and it is very rude and offensive when those questions are asked and dont need to be.


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