# 21 year old loves at home, no rent



## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Please bear with me.
DH and I have a 3y DS and a 10 month DD. And DSS, 21, who lives in our basement. He is a "normal" 21 year old - goes to university, gets decent grades. He works weekends and makes good money, which he uses to buy computers, music, clothes..... He occassionally has friends over, but they are not roudy. He doesn't play loud music, do drugs.....

So, what's the problem? DH grew up on a farm and had huge responsibility as the oldest of 5 children (milking cows, cleaning, babysitting the younger ones...) So he does not want his children having too many chores. I grew up a chushy life but had small chores to contribute to the family (ie dishes). I have made clear to DH that "our" children will not get the total chusy ride DSS is getting - they must contribute to the family unit. Not up at 6am to clean a farmhouse, but cleaning their owwn rooms, and later dishes or laundry or lawn mowing.... DH is on board with this.

Problem is DSS has No chores, and pays no rent. Because I am not his mother, I feel I can not impose chores on him, esp. since DH does not like assigned chores. And DH won't ask him to do non-assigned chores. Maybe once, then the next day he forgets. I ask DSS, and he will do what I ask, pleasantly, but only the once. For example if I ask him to do dishes during dinner, he will. Or take out the trash, he will do it right away. But only that one time. DSS does not babysit, ever. He does not clean, make meals, do laundry... nothing. He literally puts his own dishes in the dishwasher after dinner, and he will do his own laundry if I am not doing the rest of the households, in which case he just adds it to that pile.

He knows he has it chushy. My friends all say he needs a serious girlfriend, then he will move out. I'm still waiting. In the meantime, I don't mind him living here. We have the space. I do mind him not contributing. Ideas?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm not sure what you are looking for here since your dh doesn't like assigned chores and it is his son? I guess you could just keep asking dss to do stuff as you need it? It sounds like he has a lot going on with school, work and it sounds like he is taking decent care of his own personal stuff


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Wow, he sounds like a great young man! If the only problem you have with him is that he doesn't contribute to the family household chores, then I would suggest that you may have a frustration or resentment that goes deeper than this particular issue. Is it the inequality that bothers you? The seeming double standard? That your children will be expected to do chores, and your SS is not?

You mention that he is happy to complete tasks upon being asked. If it's really bothering you that he doesn't pitch in more, then you may try asking for more from him at those times you are together. If you ask the same thing each time you have dinner together, perhaps he will start to do it as a matter of routine?

No matter what, it seems that your frustration, no matter the legitimacy or reasons, is arising from a situation that isn't going to change. You can either continue to be frustrated, or you can change your feelings somehow. I don't pretend to understand the complexities of a blended family, so I hope my advice isn't out of line.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

I think if he is not adding extra mess to your home and taking care of his own things and space, then let it be.

Are you cooking his dinner every night? and doing other family things for him? if so then yes he should contribute to chores that help the family.

It's calling pulling your weight, but if your DH isn't on board I don't know what to tell you.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I don't think a young man who is in school should be paying rent. He's a good student, not rowdy or disrespectful in the house, yes? Good enough, IMO. Count your blessings.

I think it's fine to ask him to do things as you need him to, like dishes, etc. Not really sure what the problem is here...


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

While I totally get how your husband feels about not making kids do hard chores (like he did on the farm) we are NOT talking about a child but a MAN contributing to simple everyday stuff. Personally I'd have a very casual chat with SS asking him if he'd mind taking on a few regular responsibilities in the house without being asked each time.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

thismama- I agree with a student not paying rent. and this is the rule we have here (although I wish it applied to me







)

Kailey's first priority is school. If she keeps her grades up she can work (this is for high school) but once they drop she mst quit work.

For college the same rules apply about not working while attending school unless she wants extra spending money. and yes, we'll supply living needs and do what we can with providing gas money, within reason.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I think it's fine to ask him to do things as you need him to, like dishes, etc. Not really sure what the problem is here...

I *think* and this is only what I got from the OP is that she wants something a little more consistant and doesn't want to ask each time...a teamwork sort of houshold and not so much an every man for himself sort of household.

Just my interpretation of her post but I could be way off base







.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh adn I didn't respond about the *rent* thing because I think I made it pretty clear in my own post here that if they are schooling I wouldn't request rent.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

He is your DH's son; unless DH is willing to assign him chores, I don't think you have the right to do it yourself.

If he's happy enough to do what you ask, when you ask him, that's good. I think an adult might be a bit put off at being assigned regular chores, anyway. Ask for what you need, when you need it, and be happy that he is so happy to comply.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

It seems like you have the perfect arrangement! He's respectful of people and spaces and is going to school. He's kind and does what you ask. I am with the others not really knowing what the problem is.

Perhaps there's more going on? Do you want him to be more a part of your family?


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Your DSS sounds like a really reasonable guy. I think that, given everything you describe, he'd probably respond well to a request that he take on some chores on a regular basis.

Actually, in your shoes, I'd be tempted to lay it out for the entire family: list the things that need to get done every day, note what you do and what other people do, and ask if people could agree to take some specific things on. I'd be inclined to let DSS keep dumping his laundry in with everyone else's (hey, whatever, we make up the loads based on colors and fabrics and one more person's stuff is no big deal), but I'd also want to make some basic rules concerning, say, how the person who cooks dinner for everyone should not also have to do dishes afterwards.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

If it doesn't bother your husband and doesn't disrupt your household, I see no problem. In many cultures, adult children stay in the house long past 18.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
If it doesn't bother your husband and doesn't disrupt your household, I see no problem.

I don't understand your response....your response comes across as all about her DH's wants and nothing about her's which is crazy IMO. It can't be all one sided and work can it?

Honestly I can't believe I'm the only one who doesn't think it's weird that she feels she can't talk to a grown man living in her home without going through her husband! Yes, I realize he's her DH's son but he is living in *thier* home and again HE IS AN ADULT. I totally respect and understand the reasoning when children are young but when the *child* is an adult not so much.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Thanks for all the replys. Some things to think about - mainly that I ought to be happy with what I have, and that if I want him to help I ought to just keep asking every time.

The issue as I see it is that we need to work as a family unit. That means people do their share. A 3 year old can not mow the lawn, but he can help put his toys away. A 10 year old can help do dishes. A 21 year old can make dinner once a week, or watch siblings, or mow the lawn. He doesn't do anything, unless specifically asked. If he is a non-contributing member of the family, then I feel he ought to pay rent. He is like a renter, with someone to cook and clean and do his laundry, then he ought to be treated like one, and pay rent. Frankly, I would prefer if he contributed instead.


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## astrophe27 (Aug 27, 2007)

Quote:

He is your DH's son; unless DH is willing to assign him chores, I don't think you have the right to do it yourself.
I disagree. He is another adult roommate in the household. You have every right to ask adults in your home to chip in where possible to help keep the home running smoothly.

It's fine if he's a student and you don't ask for rent. But if he's living there, I think it is fair to ask him to contribute more to the house in terms of regular chores. After all, if he were living alone in a flat, wouldn't he take out his trash? Do his dishes? This isn't brutal work here.

Since he adds his laundry to the pile when you do it, can't he take out your trash when he takes his out?

Just sit the adults of the household down, tell them you need more of a hand and ask them where they can help.

A.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *<~*MamaRose*~>* 
I don't understand your response....your response comes across as all about her DH's wants and nothing about her's which is crazy IMO. It can't be all one sided and work can it?

Honestly I can't believe I'm the only one who doesn't think it's weird that she feels she can't talk to a grown man living in her home without going through her husband! Yes, I realize he's her DH's son but he is living in *thier* home and again HE IS AN ADULT. I totally respect and understand the reasoning when children are young but when the *child* is an adult not so much.

He is her husband's child, what exactly is confusing about that?

ETA: He's not a roommate, he's her husband's son, and unless he is causing some disruption, it is between her husband and his son, period. It may seem unfair, but it's between them.

BUT I think it is entirely reasonable to expect him to do his own laundry, dishes, cleaning of his space, et cetera. I wouldn't do his laundry for him.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

He is going to school and working and generally taking care of himself and from what you have posted isn't creating much additional work for you. Occasional additions of laundry isn't really a big deal to me. So I'd be thrilled that he is a good kid working on getting a higher education and has a job. And I'd do everything within my power to make getting that education as easy as possible.

For me my kid working and attending college and generally picking up after themselves is their share of contribution. Especially since I'm not in a situation where we are struggling to put food on the table or keep a roof over our heads. If I was a struggling family then I could see how a rent contribution at that age would be needed. Otherwise no.

I still don't get why you just don't ask for what you want from him? Are you just mad that he isn't volunteering? Is it an issue with your dh? If that is the case then it's really a PaP issue and not a kid issue.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I would just ask him to help you with this or that.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

The rule in our house is that any of our kids who are in school don't pay rent. I told my DS that he can stay here as long as he wants as long as he stays in school, even if that means he's here till he's 50 (although lets hope thats not the case, lol) I don't see these as all one issue though.

In regards to helping around the house... the agreement we have here is that anyone who can completely take care of their own portion of household stuff can stop helping everyone else with theirs. i.e. when my DS (hubby's step son) wants to stop helping with other stuff, he's more than welcome to as long as he takes care of his own things. i.e. he feeds himself, does his own dishes, his own laundry, etc without my harping on him or otherwise asking him to do it. That goes for any member of the family, including DH, DS and our girls when they get older (DD is 2 and our other isnt even born yet... its just our "house rule")

Needless to say, DS chose to help me out rather than do all of his own "stuff". Its not "chores" either, its just about putting in what you get out. DH has things he does, I have things I do, DS and DD have things they do...all tailored towards their abilities/time/personalities.

If your step son has no problem helping out when you ask, I dont think it would be out of line to just ask him to handle X. It could be something like swapping laundry or taking out garbage or mowing, or just some single task that is tougher for you because you have little ones to look after. Not because its a "chore" for him, just asking him to help out.

My DH won't do "chores" either, but he has no problem getting things done on the weekend if I ask him to, and he handles specific things around the house NOT because they are "chores" but because it just makes more sense for someone who is not me to do them. Plus we both came from houses where we didnt have any chores ever, and we lived in a pig stye for a large part of the start of our marriage (and our single years before that) because we had no clue how to do anything.

And as for the "step son so I cant ask" part... my DH is more than welcome to ask DS to do something. I really believe that it is part of him being treated like part of the family, and I think he'd feel less like that if he was treated differently because he's the "step son" and not just the son, ya know?


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## Meg_s (Apr 13, 2006)

Have you talked to him one on one about the situation?
A previous poster said he's your husabnd's child, you have no right to ask him anything, but imo he's part of the family, you know? You all live together, why is he isolated with no communication or expectations? If my sister (for example) came to live with us, my husband would have as much right to ask her things as I do. You are the mother (figure) of the family, not just some servant who does things for everyone with no rights or wishes. It's OUR home.
I'd talk to him one on one, give your husbands point of view, tell him how much you appreciate that he is going to school, and the stuff about his friends not being rowdy and so on, and ask if he would mind OR tell him that you would appreciate if he contributed regularly a few things so that you didn't have to ask him. Ask him if he has any idea of what he would want to do, and if he doesn't you can have your own ideas. I don't know what you would want from him - dishes? trash? babysitting?


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## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Some things to think about - mainly that I ought to be happy with what I have, and that if I want him to help I ought to just keep asking every time.

Instead of asking every time, can you just ask him if he'd be willing to do a certain job on a regular basis, like babysit on Thursdays, or mow the lawn once a week? You wouldn't be demanding chores, but making a request of what sounds like a reasonable person. I don't see the harm in that.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

my mom came from a large family where she basically gave up her childhood to do housework and provide childcare. she felt the same was your dh does- she wanted us to have a much easier life. i have to say when i got out in the real world i was very ill prepared. my first boyfriend, who i left home to live with at age 20, was a huge influence on me becoming self sufficient. he'd cared for himself from a young age and had tremendous confidence in his abilities to feed, clothe and shelter himself. eventually, because he refused to wait on me hand and foot, i got there too.
i've always admired young adults who know how to pay their own bills, fix things, create a home and cook a nourishing meal. they have a certain "capableness" about them that is much different than book smart knowledge.
you and your husband should definitely sit down with his son and agree on some things he could do around the house on a consistent basis. if he were just a renter he'd be responsible for more than just keeping his room clean. he sounds like a good guy so i'm sure the conversation could be handled in a friendly way.
i wouldn't ask him to babysit- that makes it a bit personal, but how about lawn care, grocery shopping, errands, laundry (he could do all of it instead of piling his with yours), car care, cooking a meal. all stuff he would have to do in real life if he were on his own. pitch it as real life preparation.
re; no rent while in college. while i think it's fine to not charge young adults rent while they are pursuing higher education i think in some ways this can create a very entitled world view. i don't think kids should be constantly reminded of how grateful they should be but it would be nice if when given such opportunities they would realize just how fortunate they are. most young adults aren't given a free college education let alone a rent free place to stay. i don't plan on charging my child rent while he's in college but i'd want him to realize that not everyone has this opportunity. and i don't think it helps anyone to use school as an excuse to avoid "real life". just my .02.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I think you should talk to your ss about taking on some kind of regular responsibility, be it mowing the lawn or cooking one night a week or whatever. I disagree completely that you have no right to ask because he's your dh's son...unless your dh and ss are okay with it if you quit cooking for your ss, for example. He's part of the family unit, and you are providing housework (not sure how much, but cooking, at least) for him. Therefore, I think you have the right to have some say in how much he does around the house.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies. I want to point out something that I think is coloring people's views. Denmarks education is totally different than the USA. DSS higher education is FREE - all of it paid by the state. He also gets a stipend - a monthly allowance, because he is studying, to pay for food/clothing/shelter. None of this is a loan either - a freebie paid by taxpayers. His expenses are maybe a few hundred dollars a year for books - which he buys new, but he could choose to buy used for even less.

With all that, I still do not expect him to pay rent. Both DH and I work, and we can always put food on the table. It's more a view that he should EITHER help out, as a family member, OR do not contribute, but then pay rent.

As one poster said, he might look down on assigned chores, like a small kid. I need to either have a face-to-face discussion with him about what I expect (*I* because DH is not on board), or I need to ask him to do more specific things more often. This is probably what I will do. I will hope that after 30 times of saying please wash up, that he might start to do it himself, but if not, then I will ask 31 timees, or forever. Aggrivating for me, but I am aggrivated already without doing this, so I think I should try.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

I totally think everyone living in a home should participate in the care of that home. It sounds like your SS has a busy and productive life, and he sounds like a pleasant and easy to live with sort of guy, too. But like most 21 year olds, he's probably not thinking too much about what he can contribute to the home. "Can you take the trash out?" doesn't translate to "Will you take the trash out every night before you go out/go to bed?" You have to be specific. I don't see a problem with asking him to take care of certain things that will make everyone's life easier, like taking out the trash every night, sweep the kitchen floor, wash the dishes every other night, whatever.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
He is your DH's son; unless DH is willing to assign him chores, I don't think you have the right to do it yourself.

If he's happy enough to do what you ask, when you ask him, that's good. I think an adult might be a bit put off at being assigned regular chores, anyway. Ask for what you need, when you need it, and be happy that he is so happy to comply.

This is a grown man, living in a house that is hers too.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
This is a grown man, living in a house that is hers too.

Yes! Yes! Yes!







:


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 

As one poster said, he might look down on assigned chores, like a small kid. I need to either have a face-to-face discussion with him about what I expect (*I* because DH is not on board), or I need to ask him to do more specific things more often. This is probably what I will do. I will hope that after 30 times of saying please wash up, that he might start to do it himself, but if not, then I will ask 31 timees, or forever. Aggrivating for me, but I am aggrivated already without doing this, so I think I should try.

I think a less aggravating solution would be to, one time, say something like, "Hey DSS! Thank you so much for washing up after dinner last night - I really appreciate the help and it makes our evening run so much more smoothly when all the adults pitch in for dinner. Would you mind continuing to wash up on the nights you eat with us? It will help me get the little ones in the bath/ready for bed/etc more easily. Thanks a bunch!"

Continuing to ask him every single time when what you really want is for him to take the initiative and do it without asking seems passive agressive. Just ask for what you want - you're both grown ups.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

I think that you should be glad you are not paying for him to live in a dormitory and leave it at that.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Wow he works and makes good money. Well that's a start I guess. Sorry but being a married 22 year old mother of 3-to-be, hearing of someone who is a year younger than me living that kind of freeloading lifestyle is just not respectable, and if I were single I wouldn't have anything to do with someone that unmotivated. But, you say you're fine with him living with you, so there's no problem, right? At some point you have to start encouraging children to live their own lives. I'd rather live on the street than have to ever live with my parents, and unless there is some kind of major crisis my children will not be welcome to live here when they are 21. I expect them to be working or in school and making their own way in the world.


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## cpop (May 3, 2006)

I guess what I would wonder about in this situation is this:
Does your Dh do his fair share of the chores? I think if you don't believe that families should operate with one (or two) adults doing everything and the children having no responsibilities, and your DH does, the obvious solution would be for DH to pick up his son's slack.

But it doesn't sound like your problem is with the amount of work you have to do but more so with a matter of feeling respected?
I think if I lived with any other adult, sibling,grown child, spouse, etc who is healthy and capable I would feel a little bit disrespected if I was expected to do everything around the house. And I would feel disrespected by my DH if he asked me to do this for another adult, even though he knew I wasn't comfortable with it.

Maybe you could talk to your DH about this issue if it is imortant to you and explain that it is particularly imortant for a YOUNG MAN to understand that it is normal for all adults in a family to pitch in, since he will soon enough find himself in a situation where this message may be communicated to him in a much harsher way by a live-in-girlfriend.
My husband was brought up like this and had a pretty rocky adjustment period when we first started living together.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

i agree that if asking him everynight to do the dishes when you reeally want him to just do it w/o being asked...well you have to make that clear to him. He sounds like he'd be okay w/ it. Let him know how much you appreciate it.

Maybe ask him to do the occaisional load of of laundry...or add some of your things to his loads???

Babysitting I'd think would be something to ask about on an as needed basis. Unless you're wanting to set up a regualr date night for you amd your husband.

If my husbands friends were half as helpful as your dss seems to be i'd be thrilled. (granted they don't actually live with with us) But they are 23-25 year old men who seem unable to throw their beer cans in the recycling.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
...say something like, "Hey DSS! Thank you so much for washing up after dinner last night - I really appreciate the help and it makes our evening run so much more smoothly when all the adults pitch in for dinner. Would you mind continuing to wash up on the nights you eat with us? It will help me get the little ones in the bath/ready for bed/etc more easily. Thanks a bunch!"...


BINGO!!!
That was definitly the best solution here!! He's a co-operative person and he is obviously okay with helping out. What's missing (and what's frustrating to you, OP) is that he lacks the ability to see what needs to be done on his own. Assigned chores is pretty much the only way to go; but it doesn't mean you have to be a "slave driver" about it (which I don't think you'll do, I just think that's what your DH is concerned about). I think the above suggestion finds the middle ground between you and DH on this subject. Coincidentally, middle ground on this one happens to have DSS's name on it. Letting him make the decision to help on his own will eliminate the problem for both you and your DH. It's the perfect solution!

(PS: You didn't ask, but it's my unsolicited advice that if you're looking to better create a family unit; you should stop calling DSS a "step son" and start calling him "son". You should also stop referring to him as "DH's child" and your other kids as "our kids". I'm not sure if you're using that in reference here only, but if you find yourself saying that in real life; consider how your excluding words are going against your intentions to create a whole family that includes him







)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
(PS: You didn't ask, but it's my unsolicited advice that if you're looking to better create a family unit; you should stop calling DSS a "step son" and start calling him "son". You should also stop referring to him as "DH's child" and your other kids as "our kids". I'm not sure if you're using that in reference here only, but if you find yourself saying that in real life; consider how your excluding words are going against your intentions to create a whole family that includes him








)

That also depends on how her stepson feels about it. DS1, for example, adores dh and hasn't seen his bio-dad more than once a year since he was about 8. However, he would never call dh "dad", and doesn't want dh calling him "son". He doesn't mind dh referring to "our kids" in a way that includes ds1 - but he doesn't want dh calling him "my son". I find this is an area where it can be a good idea to tread carefully.

My mom got together with my step-dad when I was 24. My sister was 22. If my stepdad had referred to either of us as his daughter, I think we'd have laughed in his face. I love him - he's a wonderful man who has been great to and for my mom, and he's a terrific grandpa to our kids, and an integral part of our family...but he's not my dad.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
That also depends on how her stepson feels about it...

True.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
Wow he works and makes good money. Well that's a start I guess. Sorry but being a married 22 year old mother of 3-to-be, hearing of someone who is a year younger than me living that kind of freeloading lifestyle is just not respectable, and if I were single I wouldn't have anything to do with someone that unmotivated. But, you say you're fine with him living with you, so there's no problem, right? At some point you have to start encouraging children to live their own lives. I'd rather live on the street than have to ever live with my parents, and unless there is some kind of major crisis my children will not be welcome to live here when they are 21. I expect them to be working or in school and making their own way in the world.

How is he freeloading? He works and goes to school, he's not loafing around.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
How is he freeloading? He works and goes to school, he's not loafing around.

How is he not freeloading? He's working, but the money isn't going to the household. If someone is living in my house, and not helping out financially _or_ with housework, they're freeloading.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
How is he not freeloading? He's working, but the money isn't going to the household. If someone is living in my house, and not helping out financially _or_ with housework, they're freeloading.

If he and his father agree that it's okay for him to live there, how is that freeloading? He keeps his own space clean and cleans up after himself, so he's not creating extra work - why is that freeloading?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Wow. Eh it's just part of the old American way of turn 18 and get the F out of my house. I prefer the concept of families supporting each other and my dd can live here as long as she likes. And to me working and going to school are not freeloading. She is furthering her education and options in life. All good things IMO. She is a respectful kid just like the OPs dss appears to be, so I don't see a problem with them living at home. And I'd never expect rent unless we were a family struggling to pay to the bills, which we aren't.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
If he and his father agree that it's okay for him to live there, how is that freeloading? He keeps his own space clean and cleans up after himself, so he's not creating extra work - why is that freeloading?

If dh made an agreement with anybody - son or otherwise - that it was okay for that person to live here, without reaching an agreement with me about their contribution to the home, all hell would break loose. The OP's dh isn't the only one in the house, and he doesn't get to unilaterally decide what's a fair contribution for someone else.

Doing his own laundry "if [the OP] isn't doing the rest of the households" and putting his own dishes in the dishwasher is hardly cleaning up after himself. She cooks dinner (at least that's the impression I get), does the community laundry (to which he adds his own), etc. Cleaning up after yourself in a household also includes a certain amount of effort towards the community chores - laundry, garbage, general pick-up. The OP cooks and cleans for him, and he's not doing any kind of chores in return.

I can't see any way in which it's not freeloading, so we obviously see things differently. IMO, when someone is living in a home, and someone else is cooking for them, cleaning up after them (taking out trash, cleaning supper dishes, etc.) and doing their laundry and getting nothing in return, it's freeloading. I can't imagine any circumstance, except a bailout (eg. a friend leaving an abusive spouse or something), wherein I'd tolerate an adult living in my home and having me do all the housework...actually, even with a bailout, I don't see any reason why the person can't help out, yk?

I don't think the OP's stepson should have to pay rent, if they don't need the money. But, I think it's pretty ridiculous that he's able to leave the housework to his stepmom. And, I don't see how or why the OP's dh should be able to make a unilateral decision about that, as it affects everyone in the house.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Wow. Eh it's just part of the old American way of turn 18 and get the F out of my house. I prefer the concept of families supporting each other and my dd can live here as long as she likes.

I don't think anybody said he should "get the F out of the house".

Quote:

And to me working and going to school are not freeloading. She is furthering her education and options in life. All good things IMO. She is a respectful kid just like the OPs dss appears to be, so I don't see a problem with them living at home. And I'd never expect rent unless we were a family struggling to pay to the bills, which we aren't.
I just want to understand this, because I don't. You think that it's okay for someone to have another person cook for them, clean for them, etc. without having to pitch in, as long as the person receiving this service is earning money for themselves and/or going to school? If ds1 wants to go to university and live at home, he's perfectly welcome to do so. But, I can't see any way in which becoming an adult means not having to pitch in at home. Hell - dh works, too - he still has to do his share on the homefront, just as I did when I worked...and his money is, and my money _was_, supporting the household, not just the person earning it.

I really think I must be misunderstanding something you and MamaWindmill are saying, because it sounds like you think it's okay to make family members into your unpaid servants...


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't think anybody said he should "get the F out of the house".

I just want to understand this, because I don't. You think that it's okay for someone to have another person cook for them, clean for them, etc. without having to pitch in, as long as the person receiving this service is earning money for themselves and/or going to school? If ds1 wants to go to university and live at home, he's perfectly welcome to do so. But, I can't see any way in which becoming an adult means not having to pitch in at home. Hell - dh works, too - he still has to do his share on the homefront, just as I did when I worked...and his money is, and my money _was_, supporting the household, not just the person earning it.

I really think I must be misunderstanding something you and MamaWindmill are saying, because it sounds like you think it's okay to make family members into your unpaid servants...

Well, I mean I can definitely see what you're saying, but I think some of the family dynamics here are making this situation more difficult. I think it's unreasonable for the OP to feel resentful toward her stepson if he's not creating extra work for her - I see nothing wring with him living in the house and not paying rent, and frankly, it's not just "her house" and she married a man with a child. The final decision about that child lies with his father.

If, however, he's creating extra work, then certainly it makes sense to ask that he pitch in. I guess I don't see what is so terrible about an adult child living at home.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *<~*MamaRose*~>* 
Honestly I can't believe I'm the only one who doesn't think it's weird that she feels she can't talk to a grown man living in her home without going through her husband! Yes, I realize he's her DH's son but he is living in *thier* home and again HE IS AN ADULT. I totally respect and understand the reasoning when children are young but when the *child* is an adult not so much.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *astrophe27* 
I disagree. He is another adult roommate in the household. You have every right to ask adults in your home to chip in where possible to help keep the home running smoothly.

It's fine if he's a student and you don't ask for rent. But if he's living there, I think it is fair to ask him to contribute more to the house in terms of regular chores. After all, if he were living alone in a flat, wouldn't he take out his trash? Do his dishes? This isn't brutal work here.

A.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids* 
I totally think everyone living in a home should participate in the care of that home. I


Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
This is a grown man, living in a house that is hers too.









: to all those I quoted, and to everything storm bride said, too.


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## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't think anyone is saying that adult children shouldn't live at home...in fact I see the majority of people being supportive of adults living at home. But there has to be an expectation of contribution, be it financial (rent) or in-kind (working around the house). Regardless of whether he is clean, quiet and courteous, he is still someone to clean-up after and care for. And as an adult, he can contribute in some way.

And I have real living experience with this. We had a roommate for 8 years, who was clean, quiet and courteous and didn't lift a finger to clean the bathroom, vacuum or cook (he did his own dishes and laundry) without being asked. He would do it if asked, but felt no compulsion to help unsolicited. He paid a minor amount of rent, which was helpful in the beginning, but over the years was more of a ceremonial gesture. It drove me nuts for years, but DH felt that because the roommate paid "rent", we couldn't ask him to contribute more. And despite liking him very much, I finally put my foot down and kicked his butt out.

This "child" is an adult and even if he is a student and working he can help out. A load of dishes or 15 minute mowing the lawn every once in a while, is not going to substantially impact his social/work/school life, but it will go a long way toward good will and peace in the home.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
Well, I mean I can definitely see what you're saying, but I think some of the family dynamics here are making this situation more difficult. I think it's unreasonable for the OP to feel resentful toward her stepson if he's not creating extra work for her - I see nothing wring with him living in the house and not paying rent, and frankly, it's not just "her house" and she married a man with a child. The final decision about that child lies with his father.

If, however, he's creating extra work, then certainly it makes sense to ask that he pitch in. I guess I don't see what is so terrible about an adult child living at home.

I've done the roommate thing. I've done the going from one child to two children to three children (and soon four children). I've done the having a new dh move in thing. Every single person added to a household makes more work, even if it's just a little more veggie chopping when making dinner, or a few extra plates to clean. If the stepson is adding laundry to the pile, then he's definitely making more work. Everything he eats needs to be replaced more quickly than if he weren't there (okay - just realized that I don't know if he buys his own food/toiletries/whatever).

I just really disagree that the final decision about that "child" lies with the father. He lives in the home. If the father says "he can live here", he's basically, in the circumstances, saying "you can cook for him and do his laundry". No way. That's just not reasonable.


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## wanderinggypsy (Jul 26, 2005)

Oh I don't know.. university is a lot of work in itself.... I get where you're coming from but like some past posters have said, it could be soooo much worse!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Sorry, can't help responding, again.

University being hard is no excuse to not help out around the house.

If that were true, every mom going to university wouldn't ever clean their house or cook, or watch their own kids.







:

I'm being a bit sarcastic, but my point is, since when is that an excuse?

When I was in college, and living at home, I was expected to help around the house because I LIVED THERE.

If I lived alone, I would have had to do the same thing.

Not to mention, he doesn't have any financial stresses associated with university as most americans do, since his education is paid for.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I've done the roommate thing. I've done the going from one child to two children to three children (and soon four children). I've done the having a new dh move in thing. Every single person added to a household makes more work, even if it's just a little more veggie chopping when making dinner, or a few extra plates to clean. If the stepson is adding laundry to the pile, then he's definitely making more work. Everything he eats needs to be replaced more quickly than if he weren't there (okay - just realized that I don't know if he buys his own food/toiletries/whatever).

I just really disagree that the final decision about that "child" lies with the father. He lives in the home. If the father says "he can live here", he's basically, in the circumstances, saying "you can cook for him and do his laundry". No way. That's just not reasonable.

Certainly true, too. I wonder how much he's taking care of himself (truly taking care of himself) and how much the OP is doing for him. I really believe that it's between the son and the father to decide, as long as it's not making life harder for the wife, but I haven't been in a step-relationship, so I will accept your superior knowledge on the subject as truth.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
Certainly true, too. I wonder how much he's taking care of himself (truly taking care of himself) and how much the OP is doing for him. I really believe that it's between the son and the father to decide, as long as it's not making life harder for the wife, but I haven't been in a step-relationship, so I will accept your superior knowledge on the subject as truth.









EEK! I think I'm coming off a little more snooty than I intended to. I could be wrong, for sure - just got a strange vibe from the original post...like the OP and her dh were in disagreement, but it's the OP who has to deal with most of the fallout...

I could be off base.


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## chezlyryan (Mar 1, 2005)

I agree with the general consensus that this is a good guy who will probably respond well if you sit him down and tell him what you want from him. Since he does what ever chore you ask him to do, maybe he figures when you don't ask that means you don't need his help.

Just so you know what point of view I am coming from, I stayed at home while going to university and my mom usually made me a list of chores she wanted me to do that week. I guess I never could figure out what she wanted to do and what she wanted me to do in the household since I wasn't a kid anymore but still wasn't a fully independent adult.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

He sounds like a busy person if he is attending college AND working some. He must be busy with studying, too. If he stays out of trouble with the law and isn't coming home drunk/roudy,I personally wouldn't say or do anything. I only hope my kids are like that when they are 21.

If it really bothers you that much, you can ask him to start doing his own laundry and own dishes. That isn't a lot to ask, and shouldn't interfere with his studies/work to do his own laundry and dishes. Doing laundry for one person isn't bad, especially when you know what is clean/dirty and what you will need for the next few days. He can do it around his work/school schedules. That way no one else is getting mad b/c they don't have clean underwear. I wouldn't want to see him having to wash everyones clothes when he has school work to do. He can wash his own dishes when he is finished eating. I would NOT ask him to babysit or do regular chores, cook, or clean. (other than cooking specifically for himself, or cleaning his own living area)

I wouldn't want to do anything that would take real time away from schoolwork/work. Sometimes even doing a sinkful of dishes or several loads of laundry IS too much when it is Sunday, you have to go to work, and have a test the next day.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

maybe you can rotate chores amongst all the adults and older kids??? so that no one person does every thing every day.

one week you wash, hubby cooks, dss does dishes, the kids do the bathroom. the next week you cook, hubby does dishes, dss does the bathrooms, the kids wash. the 3rd week you do dishes, hubby does the bathrooms, dss washes, and the kids cook.

thats just an example and of course you could switch out when say a test or sickness or whatever comes up. naturally there would be more than cooking and dishes and laundry and bathrooms but you get the idea.

(not what we do in my current home but kind of what we do at work)


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I just want to understand this, because I don't. You think that it's okay for someone to have another person cook for them, clean for them, etc. without having to pitch in, as long as the person receiving this service is earning money for themselves and/or going to school?
I really think I must be misunderstanding something you and MamaWindmill are saying, because it sounds like you think it's okay to make family members into your unpaid servants...

If I'm already cooking dinner for myself, my partner and the other people in the home ( my other kids ect) then I'm not cooking "for him". It's not like I'm making a meal only for him to eat. It just isn't a big deal to me that 1 more person will be eating the food I'm already making.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have to "pitch in" ever but I don't agree with the indignation I'm hearing that the kid isn't mind reading and automatically doing x,y,z around the place.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
If I'm already cooking dinner for myself, my partner and the other people in the home ( my other kids ect) then I'm not cooking "for him". It's not like I'm making a meal only for him to eat. It just isn't a big deal to me that 1 more person will be eating the food I'm already making.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have to "pitch in" ever but I don't agree with the indignation I'm hearing that the kid isn't mind reading and automatically doing x,y,z around the place.

I'm not indignant about that at all. What I'm indignant about is that the OP obviously feels that she is in a position where she can't really address this, because her dh is okay with the situation. IMO, if she's the one cooking his meals and doing his laundry, then she has every bit as much input in this as her dh does. It's one thing to say, "I don't think my son should have to have chores (household responsibilities - whatever)" and another to say, "_you_ can do this stuff for him, because _I_ don't think he should have to".

ETA: I see the cooking thing from a different perspective. I've always found it more work to cook for more people. I realize that's not true of everybody, though.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the OP.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

I wouldn't charge rent, but I wouldn't do his laundry anymore. My mom stopped doing my laundry when I was a teen, maybe even a preteen. I would never have dreamed of asking her in college!

The snarky side of me would ask dh to do dss's laundry, but in reality a respectful conversation would work better!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
I wouldn't charge rent, but I wouldn't do his laundry anymore. My mom stopped doing my laundry when I was a teen, maybe even a preteen. I would never have dreamed of asking her in college!

That one kind of blows my mind, I must admit. We were all doing our own laundry at 12. Mom still did the sheets and towels for several more years, but we were responsible for our own personal laundry.

I don't think it's uncommon for college students to have someone else (usually mom) taking care of that kind of thing, though. I remember when mom went back to university (when I was 12, hence the "you guys do your own" thing) and she was juggling full-time studies, a part-time job, three kids and two invalid parents. She heard two boys in front of her talking about the "crisis" one of them had going on...he had two social engagements that weekend, and didn't know how he was going to get his laundry to his mom's, so that she do it for him. Mom said she didn't know whether to laugh or cry.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

he will do his own laundry if I am not doing the rest of the households, in which case he just adds it to that pile.
Are we reading the same thread?


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

It would be a cold day in hell before I did a single scrap of laundry for an able-bodied adult stepchild. Particularly a male one, whose father insisted I had no "right" to opt out? Ew. Just ew.

I wonder how interpretations would change if this were a young woman, and/or if it was the wife's child rather than the husband's.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Are we reading the same thread?

Yes. When someone adds their laundry to "the pile", that generally means at least one more load, ime. We're reading the same thing, but interpreting it differently. I read the laundry part of the OP as "he'll do his own if he has to, but if he doesn't, he gives it to me". You obviously get something different from it.

I certainly can't see any reason why I'd be expected to do laundry for an adult child living in my home. Heck - I don't do ds1's laundry now. I certainly won't be doing it when he's 21!


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Yes. When someone adds their laundry to "the pile", that generally means at least one more load, ime. We're reading the same thing, but interpreting it differently. I read the laundry part of the OP as "he'll do his own if he has to, but if he doesn't, he gives it to me". You obviously get something different from it.

I certainly can't see any reason why I'd be expected to do laundry for an adult child living in my home. Heck - I don't do ds1's laundry now. I certainly won't be doing it when he's 21!

OT: I'm in the process of teaching my oldest to do his own laundry - it'll be better for everyone, and he needs me to teach him self-sufficiency!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
OT: I'm in the process of teaching my oldest to do his own laundry - it'll be better for everyone, and he needs me to teach him self-sufficiency!









:
It's one of my strategies to hopefully avoid ever being the subject of a "My MIL made dh useless" threads.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

I'd like to thank all of you for the replies and opinions. Even if I disagreee with some of it, it is stuff for me to think about.

I call DSS that, not DS, because I met him the first time when he was 17, and he lived with his mom at the time. He knows darn well I am not his mother. If he had been 5 and living with us, I am sure circumstances would be different.

I don't think that working/studying "is good enough". If he was living in a dorm or on his own, he would still have to cook his food, wash it, take our his trash, and clean the toilet seat when it gets really gross.... Basics. Every member contributes to the common mess, if you kwim? Therefore, I think everyone should contribute, based on age and ability. Doing your 1 dish, when someone else is cooking, washing all the rest, taking out the trash... is not enough. Yes, I would still have to do all of these things otherwise, but he is adding more, even if not a ton more.

He *chooses* to work. His education (plus a monthly salary so he does NOT have to work) come from the State. He chooses to work to have extra money to buy a 40" flatscreen TV, Wii, Laptop.... guy things he wants. What he buys with his own money is his own business, IMO. However, if he is "burdened" by work he can quit, with no ill effects.

DH contributes - a lot. If I am making dinner, he is with the kids. We both clean, put kids to bed.... perhaps I take out the trash more often, but then he pays all the bills. We don't count it all up, we just assume it is pretty even overall.

What drives me nuts is DH never asks DSS to do anything. I ask 100%. Though I still don't ask that much. I should ask more, that is my problem - I am working on it. Last night I asked him to sweep or take Lea, and he swept.

What drives me even more nuts is DH does the extra work DSS should do. For example Sat. I needed to edit/print photos to send to my parents and DH needed to mow the lawn and someone needed to watch the kids. So I said to DH "I will ask DSS to mow the lawn, so I can print out the photos whilee you take the kids." and he said "NO, I will do it." I said "That does me no good. If you are mowing the lawn, then I have to watch the kids; I can't get the pictures done." So he says "I can mow the lawn and watch the kids." I say "That's not realisitic. After 15 min I will still need to come out and play with DD." Him doing DSS's share only puts more work on me, because then he is not avaliable to help me.

Yes, I have talked with DH about this - a million times. It is the ONLY thing we FIGHT about. Only thing. Even his friends say it is unrealistic, yet he maintains that DSS does his share - he does dishes. Yes, I reply, once a month, when I ask, otherwisr just his one dish and cup.

Everything else we agree, or compromise, on DS and DD, on parenting, school, on housework, on finances.... Why this? It is just such an uphill battle.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
I don't think that working/studying "is good enough". If he was living in a dorm or on his own, he would still have to cook his food, wash it, take our his trash, and clean the toilet seat when it gets really gross.... Basics.

When I lived in a dorm, university staff (and the local pizza places) cooked all my meals. They took out my trash (from the common dumpster, I had to bring any room trash to the dumpster in the dorm.) They cleaned the toilets. They did everything but the laundry.

Quote:

Everything else we agree, or compromise, on DS and DD, on parenting, school, on housework, on finances.... Why this? It is just such an uphill battle.
His ds always lived with the mom for many years, you said. Maybe your dh is afraid his ds will go back to her if dh is "tough" and asks ds to do chores? I don't know, this is just a thought.


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## hellyaellen (Nov 8, 2005)

have either of you asked your dss how he feels about helping out more, either on scheduled or self-motuivated time table? It sounds like your husband is more against the idea than your dss is.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh, gosh, Allison, I think you need to let your Dh off the hook by taking him out of the middle. In that situation with the grass, the kids, and the photos -- wonder if you could have just gone straight to dss and asked him to mow the lawn, without first clearing your plan with your DH.

In terms of the general problem, I feel like you should be able to handle a frank 1:1 disscussion with a 21 year old responsible man who you have known well for 4 years. You should be able to tell him that you care for him, like him, respect him, etc... and that you find yourself wishing he would do more to pull his weight around the house.

You need to tell him how you feel.


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## duckling (Feb 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
Thanks for all the replys. Some things to think about - mainly that I ought to be happy with what I have, and that if I want him to help I ought to just keep asking every time.

The issue as I see it is that we need to work as a family unit. That means people do their share. A 3 year old can not mow the lawn, but he can help put his toys away. A 10 year old can help do dishes. A 21 year old can make dinner once a week, or watch siblings, or mow the lawn. He doesn't do anything, unless specifically asked. If he is a non-contributing member of the family, then I feel he ought to pay rent. He is like a renter, with someone to cook and clean and do his laundry, then he ought to be treated like one, and pay rent. Frankly, I would prefer if he contributed instead.

Well, then maybe propose that he either contribute x amount of his time to family contributions or he may pay money equivalent to that time in rent each month. (Ex: He devotes 20 hours over the course of the month, which is only 5 hours a week, to family chores, or he may pay you (6 dollar/hour salary *20 hours/month) $120 a month in rent.) I don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect him and ask him to contribute. It doesn't matter that he's not your kid--he is living in your space and you're cooking and doing laundry for him. I think asking something like doing the dishes nightly or mowing the lawn weekly or taking care of siblings one night a week or a combination of the above is 100% reasonable and fair. I'd bet if you set the rent at the right price--enough to be inconvenient to his spending habit but not enough to be cost-prohibitive and thus coercing him into chores--he'd rather choose to do the chores and still have money for whatever.

If he lived on his own, which he's old enough to reasonably do (I don't mean he should move out, just that he could.) he would have to pay rent and do his own chores. He's living a pretty plush life and that's not fair to you.

I'm a college student and I live away from home. I devote easily more than 5 hours a week to the maintenance of my apartment--cooking, laundry, dishes, cleaning, repairs--on top of a full course load and two part time jobs. If I lived at home rent free, I would totally expect to have to contribute. (I figured it might help to have a perspective from someone in a similar situation to your dss.)

I'd also have a talk with your DH about this--if he opposes having his son contribute to your household economy in some meaningful way, point out that it's unfair to you to have to take care of another adult member of the household who isn't pulling his weight. Maybe asking him to take on all the chores you would reasonably ask your dss to do would point out that it's a lot of work for you on top of laundry, cooking, raising kids, etc, but is not enough to wildly inconvenience a grown man who has his rent, food, school, and expensive technology paid for.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
He doesn't do anything, unless specifically asked. .

I think this pertains to all men









Just keep asking....maybe you can give him a checklist on Sundays for the week to keep him on track as far as contributing to the family & home.


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *duckling* 
Well, then maybe propose that he either contribute x amount of his time to family contributions or he may pay money equivalent to that time in rent each month. (Ex: He devotes 20 hours over the course of the month, which is only 5 hours a week, to family chores, or he may pay you (6 dollar/hour salary *20 hours/month) $120 a month in rent.) I don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect him and ask him to contribute. It doesn't matter that he's not your kid--he is living in your space and you're cooking and doing laundry for him. I think asking something like doing the dishes nightly or mowing the lawn weekly or taking care of siblings one night a week or a combination of the above is 100% reasonable and fair. I'd bet if you set the rent at the right price--enough to be inconvenient to his spending habit but not enough to be cost-prohibitive and thus coercing him into chores--he'd rather choose to do the chores and still have money for whatever.

If he lived on his own, which he's old enough to reasonably do (I don't mean he should move out, just that he could.) he would have to pay rent and do his own chores. He's living a pretty plush life and that's not fair to you.

I'm a college student and I live away from home. I devote easily more than 5 hours a week to the maintenance of my apartment--cooking, laundry, dishes, cleaning, repairs--on top of a full course load and two part time jobs. If I lived at home rent free, I would totally expect to have to contribute. (I figured it might help to have a perspective from someone in a similar situation to your dss.)

I'd also have a talk with your DH about this--if he opposes having his son contribute to your household economy in some meaningful way, point out that it's unfair to you to have to take care of another adult member of the household who isn't pulling his weight. Maybe asking him to take on all the chores you would reasonably ask your dss to do would point out that it's a lot of work for you on top of laundry, cooking, raising kids, etc, but is not enough to wildly inconvenience a grown man who has his rent, food, school, and expensive technology paid for.

They're not paying for his schooling, he works and buys his own perks, and he keeps his basement living area clean. Most of the time, he does his own laundry. He was almost an adult when the OP met him, and he and his father agree that this is an amenable situation. He can do his own laundry, be told to buy and cook his own food and clean up after himself (or get a microwave and dorm fridge for the basement). Beyond that I think is unnecessary and petty.

I think the OP is misdirecting her resentment toward her husband to his son. I also think that pushing this issue is going to do nothing but cause bad feelings. Honestly, I think this is one of those "just let it go" situations.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
Most of the time, he does his own laundry.

It's interesting how differently we interpret the same posts. I didn't get that he does his own laundry "most" of the time. I got that he does it if the OP isn't already doing laundry. As she has two small children in the house, I'm guessing she's doing laundry quite a lot.

Quote:

He was almost an adult when the OP met him, and he and his father agree that this is an amenable situation.
Okay - let's take the fact that he's the OP's stepson out of the equation. He's an adult living in the OP's house. Would anybody think it was okay for the OP's dh to make an agreement about an "amenable" living situation with another adult without talking to his wife about it? I doubt anyone would think it was okay if this was a roomie or something...why is it okay just because the adult in question is the OP's dh's son?


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

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Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
It's interesting how differently we interpret the same posts. I didn't get that he does his own laundry "most" of the time. I got that he does it if the OP isn't already doing laundry. As she has two small children in the house, I'm guessing she's doing laundry quite a lot.

Okay - let's take the fact that he's the OP's stepson out of the equation. He's an adult living in the OP's house. Would anybody think it was okay for the OP's dh to make an agreement about an "amenable" living situation with another adult without talking to his wife about it? I doubt anyone would think it was okay if this was a roomie or something...why is it okay just because the adult in question is the OP's dh's son?

We may be reading it differently. I don't think you can take the fact that this is her husband's son out of the picture - that's a crucial point. He's not just some adult guy, he's her husband's child. I would be interested to know when this arrangement was made - did the OP move into her husband's home, where the son already lived? Did he move in because his school was nearby? What was discussed at the time this arrangement was made?

Since every one of these issues seem to be either nominal - an extra load of laundry (occasionally), an extra serving of food to prepare, no financial hardship for the OP - it seems to me that this issue is really one of ethics for some of the people on this thread, and it is not the OP's place to instill her ethics and morals on her husband's adult son. "Why should he 'get away' with not having to do chores around the house? This is his family!" Well, honestly, he may not see this as his family - he may see it as his dad's new wife and their kids. I think people should try seeing it from this guy's perspective a little more - he's in school full time, works, doesn't ask for money from his dad, cleans up after himself, politely does things for his stepmother when asked, doesn't cause trouble, et cetera - why should he be made to feel bad because he's not "watching the kids" a few hours a day or doing housework for a house he's not messing up? I think it's needlessly petty, as I mentioned previously, and will lead to trouble down the road. Don't do his laundry, don't make him any food, and don't take out his trash - beyond that, forcing him to act like he owes something to the OP is unfair, in my opinion.

ETA: I see what you're saying:

Quote:

DSS does not babysit, ever. He does not clean, make meals, do laundry... nothing. He literally puts his own dishes in the dishwasher after dinner, and he will do his own laundry if I am not doing the rest of the households, in which case he just adds it to that pile.
As I mentioned previously in the thread, don't do his laundry. Don't make his food. As far as asking him to watch his step-siblings, ask him, but don't expect him to spontaneously offer. If he has a separate living space and stays there, he shouldn't have to clean the rest of the house.

If this is not a "basement apartment" type living situation, and he's using the house like everyone else, then of course he should pitch in. Would the OP mind clarifying? I may have a totally different picture in my head than what the situation actually is.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
We may be reading it differently. I don't think you can take the fact that this is her husband's son out of the picture - that's a crucial point. He's not just some adult guy, he's her husband's child.

I don't think that it is. If the OP's dh was doing _everything_ for his son, and that wasn't impacting the OP at all, then maybe. But, since she is doing housework that benefits her dh's son, then I don't see the fact that it is his son as being relevant. My dh does not have the right to make arrangements with someone else - son or otherwise - that involve my time and energy to honour.

Quote:

Since every one of these issues seem to be either nominal - an extra load of laundry (occasionally), an extra serving of food to prepare, no financial hardship for the OP - it seems to me that this issue is really one of ethics for some of the people on this thread, and it is not the OP's place to instill her ethics and morals on her husband's adult son.
I don't see it as nominal. Is there _any_ reason why she should have to do an extra load of laundry for someone because her dh says so? I'd be pretty annoyed if I found myself doing laundry for an able-bodied 21-year-old because he and his dad agreed that was an okay arrangement! How can they (the dh and his son) have an amicable arrangement about _someone else's labour_?? I don't see it as an ethical issue in the sense of "why should he get away with" something. I see it as an ethical issue in that he and his dad are deciding what the OP should be doing.

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I think people should try seeing it from this guy's perspective a little more - he's in school full time, works, doesn't ask for money from his dad, cleans up after himself, politely does things for his stepmother when asked, doesn't cause trouble, et cetera - why should he be made to feel bad because he's not "watching the kids" a few hours a day or doing housework for a house he's not messing up? I think it's needlessly petty, as I mentioned previously, and will lead to trouble down the road. Don't do his laundry, don't make him any food, and don't take out his trash - beyond that, forcing him to act like he owes something to the OP is unfair, in my opinion.
I really don't get the feeling the OP is trying to make him feel bad. She'd like him to do a little more than put his own dish in the dishwasher, is all. I think it's obvious that the issue is with her dh, not with his son. OTOH, I don't care that he's in school full time or that he works. That has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. DH works full-time - he still has to do his share around the house. DS1 is in school, and will probably get a job next year...and he'll still be expected to do chores. When I worked full-time, and took night classes, I didn't get to have someone do my laundry and cook my meals and wash my dishes. Quite aside from the fact that the OP shouldn't have to do everything for her ss, I think this is teaching him a _terrible_ lesson about life.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, sort of unsure about how I feel about it. But at this point, it seems to me the root of the issue is that both the OP and her DH are projecting their own childhood experiences, and trying to help the 21 year old avoid feeling the negative things they felt about their own upbringings. The DH doesn't want the young man to have to do all the hard work he had to do. The OP doesn't want the young man to think that life just gets handed to you on a platter. The ebb and flow and teamwork of a household doesn't seem to even be in the conversation. They seem stuck in reaction mode, and that is making it difficult to strike a compromise, or to even have the conversation that needs to be had. This is not about the OP or her DH. It's about the 21 year old and what is a reasonable expectation of him in the household he lives in, not the one the OP or her DH grew up in.

I think the OP and her DH need to have an honest, non-defensive conversation about the issue and then maybe a family meeting is in order. The 21 yr old should be participating in finding the solution to the problem IMO. And yes, there is a problem even if the DH and the 21 yr old don't think so. One member of the family feels there is a problem, so there's a problem. That's how it works in a family. One person should not be told to "let it go" just because they are the only one who feels there is an issue.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

It seems your DH is harboring some issues about your stepson. He either feels glad to finally have him around or just doesn't want to scare him away. Perhaps he simply wants him to focus only on his studies I don't know but there's seems to be something missing.
That said I don't see the problem with him helping out sometimes. Have you pulled him aside(without your dh) and flat out asked him if he minded helping out around the house with simple things? He is living with you both so you do get a say in what he does, IMO.


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## Lissacamille (Oct 25, 2007)

If your stepson will do things when you ask, just ask him to do things rather than have a "chore chart" or some such. We just ask our grown kids to do things for us on a contingency basis. They are usually okay with helping. Is that the case with your stepson?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

The OP pretty much described me when I was a college student -- still lived at home (our family philosophy is that kids are welcome to live at home for as long as they're in school -- this would have included graduate school if I'd wanted it to), ate the food my mom prepared, didn't contribute much to housecleaning (with the exception of laundry -- I always did my own), had a job and used the money as spending money/saving for when I moved out, etc.

After 6 months or so of this, my mom just had a lighthearted chat with me where she said something like, "Honey, I love having you here while you're in school, but I need a little more help around the house. Why don't we choose a few things that can be your responsibility?" I was completely fine with it -- I hadn't been purposely lazy or refusing to help; I was just still in a "kid" mindset and it didn't occur to me that now I was a grown-up and needed to contribute more. But once she spelled it out for me, it was no problem!

It really sounds to me like the OP's DSS will be amenable to her ideas if she has a similar frank discussion with him, but I don't think it's fair to resent him for not doing something that he's not aware is expected of him.


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## Toady (Oct 12, 2006)

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As I mentioned previously in the thread, don't do his laundry. Don't make his food. As far as asking him to watch his step-siblings, ask him, but don't expect him to spontaneously offer. If he has a separate living space and stays there, he shouldn't have to clean the rest of the house.
Wouldn't they be his half siblings?

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Is there any reason why she should have to do an extra load of laundry for someone because her dh says so? I'd be pretty annoyed if I found myself doing laundry for an able-bodied 21-year-old because he and his dad agreed that was an okay arrangement! How can they (the dh and his son) have an amicable arrangement about someone else's labour?? I don't see it as an ethical issue in the sense of "why should he get away with" something. I see it as an ethical issue in that he and his dad are deciding what the OP should be doing.

Yeah, that.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm not sure what you are looking for here since your dh doesn't like assigned chores and it is his son? I guess you could just keep asking dss to do stuff as you need it? It sounds like he has a lot going on with school, work and it sounds like he is taking decent care of his own personal stuff









I agree. But I can see where the original poster is coming from as well. If her DSS is there and having dinner then why not be able to ask him to wash the dishes or help prepare dinner or take out the trash? I think he should actually "want" to contribute. But if he hasn't been raised to do chores around the house it is going to be a lot harder to start him on it now at age 21. Yes, he is doing great by going to school and work and taking care of responsibilities but I'm 39, going to school, I work, have 3 kids and a hubby and I still do the brunt of the household chores. Such is life.

All I can say is that this young man will have a rude awakening when he gets married and has a wife that expects these things from him. I'm sure she'll be on these boards one day complaining about a lazy husband that watches t.v., plays video games and works all day so he doesn't want to do housework.







So I can totally see where the original poster is coming from. What she expects from this 21 y o is not "that" unusual, plus it would help him in the long run.


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