# Three-year-olds to be taught about gay relationships



## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I don't see how they need to be taught about them at the age of 3. I guess unless they don't have any gay people in their lives. My almost 3 year old knows all about gay relationships, and makes no distinction between gay and straight relationships, except that she wants to know where her other mama is.









What they mostly need is to *not* be taught crappy things about gay relationships, and to not live in a bubble of heterosexual-only partnerships.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

theres a great family book that we read Jake.

Not about Gay or Lesbian relationships, but about ALL relationships.

One of th lines is "some kids have 2 dads, and some kids have 2 moms"

not teaching perse but definatly breaking down the stereo types....


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

I'm so sick of hearing little boys call each other 'gay' when they don't conform to sexual stereotypes.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
theres a great family book that we read Jake.

Not about Gay or Lesbian relationships, but about ALL relationships.

One of th lines is "some kids have 2 dads, and some kids have 2 moms"

not teaching perse but definatly breaking down the stereo types....


Now see there is the way to teach the child. Leave it in the home.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

I don't think young children need explanations of sexual relationships whether gay, hetero, or unwed. To do so makes the relationships stand out in some way and makes children think something is wrong with it because it was pointed out to them. To battle racism, bigotry and discrimination, you do so by teaching children to love one another, to have respect for others, to be kind, etc. Specifically teaching about an issue such as homosexuality only singles it out. Kids don't think something is wrong or hate unless taught by an adult. Three is way to young to have sexual conversations anyway.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I just left a comment- we'll see if they publish it or not!

I applauded the measure- it's completely appropriate for preschoolers to learn about different kinds of families- some have a mommy and a daddy, some have a single parent, some live with grandparents, some live with two mommies or two daddies, etc.

They're not teaching "sexuality." They're teaching about family structure.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm taking back my opinion and stating that I do think children need to be taught about different family structures. I think my child is just taught about that in an organic way, but not all children have that privilege.


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## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Now see there is the way to teach the child. Leave it to the home.

















This is only appropriate if the children are lucky enough to be homeschooled









If children attend a public school, then it is an essential part of the curriculum. Not getting into the nitty gritty, but learning to accept different household circumstances. It would also be nice if they learned that some kids only had one mom or dad as well.

There are several two-mom/two dad families in our neighborhood and Livi will see them at the park/grocery store/yard. Some day she will ask me why she has one mom and dad. I'm going to keep it simple, but I'm sure going to impose a message of acceptance. It's best to keep young minds open and not closed.


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## Danelle78 (Dec 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
I applauded the measure- it's completely appropriate for preschoolers to learn about different kinds of families- some have a mommy and a daddy, some have a single parent, some live with grandparents, some live with two mommies or two daddies, etc.

They're not teaching "sexuality." They're teaching about family structure.









: GO NUT!









Unfortunately we won't see this in the US anytime soon.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*

They're not teaching "sexuality." They're teaching about family structure.

Well that's probably a poor word choice on my part. Oops. I still think it should be left to the parents to take teachable moments as they come. Simply being aware that there are other types of families doesn't make you have more acceptance or tolerance toward people who are different. Sesame Street has a skit about other families with a song, but it never generates real discussion between my 5 yo ds and I about an issue vs having a friend with two mommies or two daddies. I think that's where the true teachable moments arise - personal associations.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Well I have not known any 5 year olds or younger children who would think there is anything to *discuss* about gay families. Just like there is nothing to discuss about straight families, yk?

Hate is learned.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamanurse*
It would also be nice if they learned that some kids only had one mom or dad as well.

That *IS* part of this proposal.

Quote:

It is particularly important to begin to make three to five-year-olds aware of the range of families that exist in the UK today; families with one mum, one mum and dad, two mums, two dads, grandparents, adoptive parents, guardians etc.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kstsmith*
I still think it should be left to the parents to take teachable moments as they come. Simply being aware that there are other types of families doesn't make you have more acceptance or tolerance toward people who are different. Sesame Street has a skit about other families with a song, but it never generates real discussion between my 5 yo ds and I about an issue vs having a friend with two mommies or two daddies. I think that's where the true teachable moments arise - personal associations.









:


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I don't agree that it should be left only up to parents since as stated in the article a variety of stereotypes and isms are rampant inthe children by the time they reach primary school.

Quote:

But the NUT claims that it needs to go further and early years teachers should be given "the skills and tools to challenge racism, sexism and homophobia" and abusive language
sounds good to me


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

I would be furious if my child were taught about homosexual relationships by someone other than myself or DH.







: I think it's a very personal thing to teach a child. And how about the maturity of the children - not all 3 year olds can handle the concept of a relationship that they don't see on a daily basis.

I don't have a problem teaching about different family structures, but no one should decide that all (insert age group here) is mature enough to be taught any specific thing.

Jenn


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabrog*
I don't have a problem teaching about different family structures, but no one should decide that all (insert age group here) is mature enough to be taught any specific thing.

Are you planning to homeschool all of your children? When parents send their children to school, they give the school some authority on what to teach their children. An educator IS going to decide what's "age appropriate" for each grade level.


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

I am going to homeschool my children, but for many more reasons than this.

If my child were taught about homosexuality in the classroom, I would deal with it at home, obviously. However, I would also let the teacher know I was not pleased (if it were taught too young, IMO). I know I can't stop what is taught in a public classroom, but I can show my displeasure if I don't agree with something.

Jenn


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

And they are also being educated by their classmates as early as possible. 'that shirt is so gay, what are you, some kind of wuss?'


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabrog*
And how about the maturity of the children - not all 3 year olds can handle the concept of a relationship that they don't see on a daily basis.

It seems like you might be making it into a much bigger deal than it probably is to a child.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *kstsmith*
I don't think young children need explanations of sexual relationships whether gay, hetero, or unwed. To do so makes the relationships stand out in some way and makes children think something is wrong with it because it was pointed out to them. To battle racism, bigotry and discrimination, you do so by teaching children to love one another, to have respect for others, to be kind, etc. Specifically teaching about an issue such as homosexuality only singles it out. Kids don't think something is wrong or hate unless taught by an adult. Three is way to young to have sexual conversations anyway.

Why is a conversation about different kinds of relationships a "sexual conversation?"

I can understand people wanting to approach their children with things in their own time and way but I don't agree that all you have to do is to love one another, have respect for others, etc. Children sometimes need explanations of things in order to see them as normal and okay. If they don't get them, they're likely to always see them as different and perhaps negatively so.

For example, I always thought I was approaching race with my son in a healthy manner by letting him just experience and interact with people of different races, talking about the beauty of different skin tones when he brought it up, etc. Until one day when we were talking about marriage and he brought race into the equation for some reason. He said, "I wouldn't want you to marry a brown person, mom." I was shocked by that. It took a bit, but I finally got out of him that he didn't understand that people with brown skin are exactly the same underneath the skin as he and I. He didn't think they were bad, just different - seriously, like a different creature. Obviously, I missed something big. Now he understands and is okay, but he needed more than my organic approach.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabrog*
I would be furious if my child were taught about homosexual relationships by someone other than myself or DH.







: I think it's a very personal thing to teach a child. And how about the maturity of the children - not all 3 year olds can handle the concept of a relationship that they don't see on a daily basis.

I don't have a problem teaching about different family structures, but no one should decide that all (insert age group here) is mature enough to be taught any specific thing.

Jenn

Would you also not want anyone to teach your child about different races or expose your children to people of color?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabrog*
I would be furious if my child were taught about homosexual relationships by someone other than myself or DH.







: I think it's a very personal thing to teach a child.

Substitute "heterosexual" for "homosexual" and ask yourself if you feel the same way.

My son has been actively taught that there are all kinds of different families HIS WHOLE LIFE. He has attended a PRIDE event, and has protested an anti-gay organization alongside me and his father. He has some understanding that some people don't think same-sex partners should be able to be married and have families, and that angers him.
He just turned 4.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna*
I don't agree that it should be left only up to parents since as stated in the article a variety of stereotypes and isms are rampant inthe children by the time they reach primary school.

This runs dangerously close to crossing the boundary of parenting the child. What if the parents don't want their child included in the discussion? Is there an option to opt out (similar to sex ed stuff)?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Are you planning to homeschool all of your children? When parents send their children to school, they give the school some authority on what to teach their children. An educator IS going to decide what's "age appropriate" for each grade level.

There should be an option for opting out for the parents who don't agree. Not all families have the option to homeschool.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I'm so sick of hearing little boys call each other 'gay' when they don't conform to sexual stereotypes.

Me, too.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

If kids that young are tossing homophobic insults back and forth, then whatever is happening organically at home and at school isn't enough. Parents have chosen not to step up to the plate so the schools will. Fair enough.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
This runs dangerously close to crossing the boundary of parenting the child. What if the parents don't want their child included in the discussion? Is there an option to opt out (similar to sex ed stuff)?

GLBT people exist whether you like it or not. That is like opting out of learning there are black people.







:


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Yeah, what about the parents who _want_ their kids to think gay people are bad??








:


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Yeah, what about the parents who _want_ their kids to think gay people are bad??

They should be prosecuted with a hate crime.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

We have always talked about varying forms of family, mostly because we didn't want her to get her info from someone who was ignorant or close-minded. At first - it was "organic" as you say - as she had friends with two mamas. So it was part of daily life.

Later, we got more explicit about the whole concept (not sexually, but you know, that some people were termed "gay" and "lesbian") as we explained why we supported gay marriage to her. And why we don't like GWB.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I agree with the ability to opt out of it. Things like that I will teach my kids at home.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

Later, we got more explicit about the whole concept (not sexually, but you know, that some people were termed "gay" and "lesbian") as we explained why we supported gay marriage to her. And why we don't like GWB.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cielle*
If kids that young are tossing homophobic insults back and forth, then whatever is happening organically at home and at school isn't enough. Parents have chosen not to step up to the plate so the schools will. Fair enough.

Do you really think that will change the kids opinions? I am really interested to see if it would work or not?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
GLBT people exist whether you like it or not. That is like opting out of learning there are black people.







:

I don't recall saying I didn't like GLBT people.

I was providing a viable option to opt out in a similar manner as opting out of sex ed.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Do you really think that will change the kids opinions? I am really interested to see if it would work or not?

It can't hurt to try.

As far as opting it out, it won't be sex ed. so kids shouldn't be able to opt of this any more than they could women's history month or some such.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Yeah, what about the parents who _want_ their kids to think gay people are bad??








:

I am not sure any amount of schooling could counter the hate if it is taught in the home.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies*
They should be prosecuted with a hate crime.

Why?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cielle*
It can't hurt to try.

As far as opting it out, it won't be sex ed. so kids shouldn't be able to opt of this any more than they could women's history month or some such.

I really think there needs to be a balance though for families who have strong opinions either way.


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

IMO, if it is brought up too soon in a child's life it _could be_ a big issue when it doesn't have to be. If it's brought up at an age when they can understand it, I hope the information would just go with the flow.

I know some 4 and 5 year olds that couldn't handle the information! And I know a 3 year old that would just say "that's cool."









Jenn


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
This runs dangerously close to crossing the boundary of parenting the child. What if the parents don't want their child included in the discussion? Is there an option to opt out (similar to sex ed stuff)?


Teachers do parent children. As educators. A large portion of being a parent is educating the child.

I always looked to my teachers much like I looked to my father. A mentor. At least the teachers that earned my respect that is.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I am not sure any amount of schooling could counter the hate if it is taught in the home.

True enough, but it sends the message that Hate is NOT Ok at school, nevermind the crap you're learning at home.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I really think there needs to be a balance though for families who have strong opinions either way.

Why should there be? Should there also be a balance for people who feel strongly that their child should believe that people of other races are different?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
Teachers do parent children. As educators. A large portion of being a parent is educating the child.

I always looked to my teachers much like I looked to my father. A mentor. At least the teachers that earned my respect that is.

Then the educators should be allowed to choose other aspects of teaching another person's child??


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Then the educators should be allowed to choose other aspects of teaching another person's child??









They have been doing that for years!


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
I really think there needs to be a balance though for families who have strong opinions either way.

Gay families exist. I don't see what the two "ways" are. If parents want to teach it's wrong at home, I suppose that's their choice. At school, however, they must acknowlege the legitimacy of all kinds of families, esp. given that some of the children undoubtedly come from "gay families."

No, they should not be able to opt out.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Um, this isn't "sex education." It's "family structure education." What is there to "op out" of? "No, I don't want little Billy to know that Sally lives with two women who both take care of her. It's not appropriate for him to know that."


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Then the educators should be allowed to choose other aspects of teaching another person's child??


Most schools have curriculums. You as a parent of that child are required to take initiative and inspect the curriculum.

I mean seriously, are you going to blame the teacher for saying "1+1=2" if it was in the curriculum? It was available for YOU to look at....

sheesh, i mean seriously. It's not as though you don't have a choice as to what your child learns, either you put them in a school that will teach what you want, or you don't.

However, I don't se why teaching young children about multi status families is a bad thing.

Aside from that, they are talking about pre-schools.... I mean... seriously, those schools DEFINATELY have a curriculum to show the incoming parents. If the parents don't agree, their kids don't have to attend.

By 5 years old kids are old enough to learn hate. Why not teach them acceptance?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
Why should there be? Should there also be a balance for people who feel strongly that their child should believe that people of other races are different?

No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Um, this isn't "sex education." It's "family structure education." What is there to "op out" of? "No, I don't want little Billy to know that Sally lives with two women who both take care of her. It's not appropriate for him to know that."










who said anything about using class mates as examples? and billy would know anyways. trust me, kids talk about their home lives all the time, it is bound to 'come out'.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Um, this isn't "sex education." It's "family structure education." What is there to "op out" of? "No, I don't want little Billy to know that Sally lives with two women who both take care of her. It's not appropriate for him to know that."









To some families I am sure they believe that.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

Children can be taught that GBLT isn't "the way we live" but adults make their own choices and deserve respect.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
However, I don't se why teaching young children about multi status families is a bad thing.

I completely agree with you. I am saying others may not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
By 5 years old kids are old enough to learn hate. Why not teach them acceptance?

I agree with this as well.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

Then they should homeschool. Schools cannot support every religious belief.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Children can be taught that GBLT isn't "the way we live" but adults make their own choices and deserve respect.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
Um, this isn't "sex education." It's "family structure education." What is there to "op out" of? "No, I don't want little Billy to know that Sally lives with two women who both take care of her. It's not appropriate for him to know that."









Hey, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist, right? Also, if you talk about Teh Gay, the kiddies might decide THEY want to marry their same-sex best friend, and get "converted" into the Queer Eye Brigade. We cannot have that. What will happen to ******* fashion sense? _What will become of the mullet_?


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cielle*
Then they should homeschool. Schools cannot support every religious belief.

And for those who can't afford homeschooling?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

That is were my problem lies with teaching them about it.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

It's not about whether or not it's correct, though. It's about what types of families exist in order to counter the assumption that every child has a mother and father in the home. It can be uncomfortable for children who are in single-parent and homosexual homes when other children insist that they every kid has a mom and a dad. So, the other children should be taught that that's not the case.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

There are also families that teach things like being black isn't 'correct' but we don't allow that in schools.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

Religion can only be an excuse for so far in society. You can't kill Doctors who perform abortions because your religion disagrees with it. You can't kill the gays. The truth is that schools have to take an atheistic approach to curriculm. Don't like it? Put your kid in a private religious school of your choice or home school.

Religion isn't getting a free pass for hatred or discrimination.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
And for those who can't afford homeschooling?

Nothing. They'll have to put up with being taught tolerance.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
There are also families that teach things like being black isn't 'correct' but we don't allow that in schools.

So this becomes a catalyst to bring the schools up to where society is.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
So this becomes a catalyst to bring the schools up to where society is.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cielle*
Nothing. They'll have to put up with being taught tolerance.


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## PrettyBird (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
No, I don't. I think there are some families that are raising their children in religious manners that go against the idea that GLBT is "correct."

There are also people who use religion to teach their kids that blacks and whites should not intermarry. They use pretty much the same arguments as the anti-gay people. Religion isn't an excuse for hate.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Much the same as the schools had to address blacks being allowed in the school with whites.


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## Maddy9199 (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
Much the same as the schools had to address blacks being allowed in the school with whites.

Well, yeah. Good idea, right?


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## Einley (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama*
Hey, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist, right? Also, if you talk about Teh Gay, the kiddies might decide THEY want to marry their same-sex best friend, and get "converted" into the Queer Eye Brigade. We cannot have that. What will happen to ******* fashion sense? _What will become of the mullet_?


Oh the horror! Imagine a world without mullets?!! No, no you can't make me! No teaching of anything other than man+woman=love. Please, save the mullet!!!

Honestly, I think it would be fantastic to have this instituted here. I believe that what is learned in school sometimes has a far greater effect on the child than the what the parents teach them. I know this from personal experience and I am sure it depends on the child, of course.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Well, yeah. Good idea, right?











I never said I didn't think it was a good idea.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki*
Religion isn't getting a free pass for hatred or discrimination.

actually it has, for all of time.


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## Anuska (Nov 13, 2005)

Quote:

By 5 years old kids are old enough to learn hate. Why not teach them acceptance?
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.


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## cielle (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anuska*
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.

It's a fine, fine line.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama*
Hey, if you don't talk about it, it doesn't exist, right? Also, if you talk about Teh Gay, the kiddies might decide THEY want to marry their same-sex best friend, and get "converted" into the Queer Eye Brigade. We cannot have that. What will happen to ******* fashion sense? _What will become of the mullet_?


















At least they will all be dressed well, right.









I tried to stay out of this one.







: I would LOVE for them to show more acceptance in the schools towards peoples of varying nationalities, sexual preference, and religion. Even just a book thrown in that has a GLTB family in it once in awhile. Throw in a pagan, hindu, and muslim family, too while they're at it. I think a lot of parents would poop their parents when they find out, but at least the kids will be exposed and be able to make up their minds from two varying opinions by their role models.

And if the parents have a problem, that is just sad. IMHO. Acceptance and diversity should be taught, not homophobia and religious absolutism. Unless, of course, that is the private school/homeschool you want.







:


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

I read the article and think it's a great idea that should be adopted here in the US. I think diversity is always a good thing even when I don't agree with the views of others (I most certainly support gay rights, but there are many say, religions that I don't support but I do support the rights of their believers).

I totally agree that it will be a beautiful day when "gay" is no longer a playground slur.


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anuska*
Thats true, but disagreement or believing something is "wrong behavior" does not have to equal hate.


and acceptance doesn't have to = follow the flow either.

Accepting something does not make you something. Just means you are ok with someone else being whoever they are or whatever they are and they are ok with you.


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## mamamelia (Apr 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kstsmith*
I don't think young children need explanations of sexual relationships whether gay, hetero, or unwed. To do so makes the relationships stand out in some way and makes children think something is wrong with it because it was pointed out to them. To battle racism, bigotry and discrimination, you do so by teaching children to love one another, to have respect for others, to be kind, etc. Specifically teaching about an issue such as homosexuality only singles it out. Kids don't think something is wrong or hate unless taught by an adult. Three is way to young to have sexual conversations anyway.

you have a point.

however, i do think it's wonderful that they are teaching children that the 'normal family' is not neccessarily made up of one mum and one dad.
but the more i think about it, the more i wonder about how much effect it will actually have as it is only taught in school. i think it needs to be taught at home along with patience and respect for everyone no matter what thier family structure is. i think parents need to be educated alongside the kids, because ultimately the parents influence would be greater in the end.

i am intriguied by that book 'jake'. more info please? i would like to get it for my daughter.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

*This is the Daily Mail*, which for those who don't know, is an extremely conservative rag - I would seriously hesitate to call it a newspaper. It spouts popular conservative 'common sense' and twists facts to make teachers (and the NUT) sound like 'Loony Lefties'. A very popular stance in middle class conservative circles. If the paper says it and implies it enough, it becomes true. Ironically, most of these teachers are actually conservative, so it's funny that rags like The Mail have made the public believe that they are lunatic socialists.

Anyway, if you read it carefully, it isnt saying anything about 'teaching about gay relationships.' It goes no further than what teachers in elementary and secondary schools have been encouraged to do for years - make children aware of diversity, and tackle prejudice of any kind when it occurs.

Now that the govt is more involved in preschool education and is rewriting the early years goals, the NUT sees an opportunity to extend the good practice in elementary schools down to early years practitioners. (In the past, many early years classes were entirely privately funded and so each did their own thing, with no cohesive 'curriculum' or policies or standards.)

I would think that what the NUT recommends is really not a big deal. But of course, a rag like the Mail is going to get hold of it and try to use it to further influence the public into believing the fantasy of the lunatic left wing teachers who are turning children gay, along with a million other ideas that they are brainwashing the youth of today with......






























(And of course, if the govt listens to the NUT's recommendations, it will be used as further evidence of the lunacy of the Labour party and Tony Blair.)


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## Yoshua (Jan 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamelia*
you have a point.

however, i do think it's wonderful that they are teaching children that the 'normal family' is not neccessarily made up of one mum and one dad.
but the more i think about it, the more i wonder about how much effect it will actually have as it is only taught in school. i think it needs to be taught at home along with patience and respect for everyone no matter what thier family structure is. i think parents need to be educated alongside the kids, because ultimately the parents influence would be greater in the end.

i am intriguied by that book 'jake'. more info please? i would like to get it for my daughter.


Jake is my step sons name.

I can get the book name for you tonight when I look at it, I hear it more than I read it, he likes his mom to read that one and grabs the bereinstein bears for me :0)

its the Family Book or something like that. I'll get the real name and PM you


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## bjorker (Jul 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrettyBird*
There are also people who use religion to teach their kids that blacks and whites should not intermarry. They use pretty much the same arguments as the anti-gay people. Religion isn't an excuse for hate.

Thank-you! I was going to say something like this as soon as I saw that "religious" argument. Religion has nothing to do with being gay. Being gay has nothing to do with religion. It's easy to contort words of the bible to support your own cause. Look it up. http://www.religioustolerance.org/


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini*
This runs dangerously close to crossing the boundary of parenting the child. What if the parents don't want their child included in the discussion? Is there an option to opt out (similar to sex ed stuff)?

Is there an opt out for all the racism, homophobia ect that the kid is learning on the playground, or from his peers and parents for that matter? no their isn't, other than homeschooling. So no their shouldn't be.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treereach*
Yeah, what about the parents who _want_ their kids to think gay people are bad??








:

exactly that is pretty much what is being implied here, OH NO someone might contradict my homophobia or racism







:


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Maybe there is a difference for my kids living in the city... and having a much older gay sister from dh's first batch. Dh and I treat the whole gay issue thing much the same way as we treat racial and gender issues. We recognize that in many ways people are the same. In other ways people are different. Seriously, I can not imagine a person choosing to be gay anymore than someone choosing to be straight. All that said, I wouldn't want my dc learning about gays at age three unless it wasme and they brought it up. Kids are very observement and open at that age. I'd much rather be the one guiding them...


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

wow, all these parents on this board who want to wait till their kid brings up same sex relationships, or wait till some arbitrary age before they are ready to learn about it? I don't get it, I honestly don't. Don't you see that by you deciding that they are not ready for it, you have already taught them something? What child would bring it up if its obvious its something their praents are uncomfortable with? That was the whole problem with sex education (and btw, teaching your kids about same sex relationships and families is NOT sex ed), wait till you think they are ready, and you have lost an opportunity, and many times you will have waited too long. Kids get that when you don't want to talk about something, its something bad. I anticipate stuff with my kid and don't wait for it to come up naturally. We have been telling him about all kinds of families since the day he was born, and over time he has started to see what we are teaching him.


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## Medusa (Mar 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone*
Maybe there is a difference for my kids living in the city... and having a much older gay sister from dh's first batch. Dh and I treat the whole gay issue thing much the same way as we treat racial and gender issues. We recognize that in many ways people are the same. In other ways people are different. Seriously, I can not imagine a person choosing to be gay anymore than someone choosing to be straight. All that said, I wouldn't want my dc learning about gays at age three unless it wasme and they brought it up. *Kids are very observement and open at that age.* I'd much rather be the one guiding them...

Which honestly why they should be taught about differant family structures at that age.

When my ds was in pre-school, he could tell the other kids "I don't have a dad." and they would accept it without a problem.

At age 5 and 6 kids will _argue_ with him and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about! These kids aren't arguing the biology of it either. I have several times stepped in to back ds up, usually kids will say something about my husband...then I have to explain "No I'm not married."
"but you have to be...your a mom?" Gee THAT'S fun thing to have to try to dance around... since I'm NOT going to go around explaining reproduction to random children.

If people don't teach their children about other family structures _someone else will._ It could be someone like me or my ds explaining it, or it could be the schools.

To be prefectly frank I'm sick to having to explain family structures to other peoples children.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I don't understand this debate at all.

My kid is 2.5. Both of her parents are gay, as are the parents of most of her friends. She knows that some ppl have a mama and a dada, some have two mamas, some have two dads, some have one mom. Etcetera.

So far it hasn't messed her up too badly.









She did go thru a thing where she was wondering where her other mama is, does she have two mamas like her friends? When she plays with her baby dolls sometimes they have a mom and dad, sometimes two mamas.

It really is that basic at this age, people. My child, surrounded by queers, is learning nothing more about sex than your children are.

I really don't get where the controversy comes in.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm not sure how to respond. I go back and forth between the extreems of parents having total say in what their children are exposed to and letting society put their stamp on them.

Everyone has heard of the golden rule- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I don't believe in it. Sure it sounds good and all BUT I find it to take someone else's life journey in a direction they may not want to go. For examply: While I may want help figuring out how to knit a certain pattern- someone please tell me exactly how to do it!!! Another person may feel robbed of the joy of doing it their own way, regardless of how it was suppose to have been done. What I want is often very different than what someone else wants.

I much prefer to go by the silver rule, "Treat others in the way that they wish to be treated."

To tie this back in to the discussion, there is no handbook on how to be a good parent that is "the right one". There is no one right way to raise your dc. I need to respect their boundries as a parent. Obviously abuse not withstanding, that is what I think every parent wishes. So if some parent wishes to talk about different families when their kids are older or younger, fine. Even if they wish to teach hate of another person or goup, that too is protected within their four walls (not to say it is not a crime to physically harm another person). What are you going to do? Censor everything you (in general, not specific to any one person) find objectionable? It might come down to whether you believe in the overall goodness of people or that people deep down are evil. Me, I believe in the innate goodness of people and in the end rely on that to undo or overcome the evil that still exists.


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## pumpkinsmama (Aug 20, 2005)

I didn't read all the replies and don't really feel like getting embroiled in this one... but can't resist sharing my opinion.

IMO...







it is fantastic. If followed in its intent... which is only to educate the children that calling someone "gay" as an insult is dumb and pretty much the same thing as walking around calling someone "heterosexual", both are simply terms used to distinguish what type of life/soul/mate one has... then I am all for it.

I don't believe teaching children fair treatment and openmindedness is "brainwashing". If the parents want little bigots they have plenty of home time to teach that in.

If no discussion of homosexuality is "allowed" then neither should any of heterosexuality. Bias by exclusion is brainwashing too. Goes back to the King and King type thing. Both or none should be allowed.

That is My Opinion. You may go now. Go in peace and prosper.


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## Deirdre (Dec 1, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone*
I much prefer to go by the silver rule, "Treat others in the way that they wish to be treated."

To tie this back in to the discussion, there is no handbook on how to be a good parent that is "the right one". There is no one right way to raise your dc. I need to respect their boundries as a parent. Obviously abuse not withstanding, that is what I think every parent wishes. So if some parent wishes to talk about different families when their kids are older or younger, fine. Even if they wish to teach hate of another person or goup, that too is protected within their four walls (not to say it is not a crime to physically harm another person). What are you going to do? Censor everything you (in general, not specific to any one person) find objectionable? It might come down to whether you believe in the overall goodness of people or that people deep down are evil. Me, I believe in the innate goodness of people and in the end rely on that to undo or overcome the evil that still exists.

I hear what you are saying, but this isn't really about the parents and what they want. Noone is trying to censor parents here. This is about the public school system deciding that explaining diversity in family structures is a good thing.

Whatever parents want to tell their kids is still protected within their four walls









ETA: pumpkinsmama is right - if they aren't going to teach one they shouldn't teach the other. Get rid of all books using the nuclear family as a model.


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## mshollyk (Sep 24, 2002)

i want to prevent LGBT kids from being killed and committing suicide. does anyone have any better suggestions as to how we might begin to prevent this than by teaching kids exactly this sort of thing?

what if that LGBT kid who died was YOUR child? what if you didn't know that they were gay cuz they were afraid to tell you cuz they knew that you "disagreed" with it?


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## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deirdre*
if they aren't going to teach one they shouldn't teach the other. Get rid of all books using the nuclear family as a model.

I like it.









I can never seem to understand how people fail to acknowlege the rampant portrayal of heterosexuality and the families that form around those het unions, yet absolutely cringe at the idea of their kid hearing, for five steenking minutes, about homosexual relationships and the families that form around those unions.


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## jtothej (Apr 12, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Houdini*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


What is the name if the book?


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