# Neverending Nipple Yeast



## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I have had a yeast infection on my nipples for three months now. I have tried Gentian Violet (twice), Nystatin, Lotrimin, Monistat, two different steroids, Diflucan 100 mg for 2 weeks, and am now trying Diflucan 200 mg for 2 weeks after a 400 mg. loading dose. I am on an antiyeast diet. I'm taking acidopholis/bifidus (sp). I'm wearing cotton bras and washing them in hot water with vinegar every day. I'm going braless as much as possible. I have one week left of the Diflucan and so far the pain has only become worse. I have several deep cracks in one of my nipples that is excruciatingly painful to nurse from. Any suggestions or advice for me?


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

My mw recomended for my mom who has yeast breakout everywhere Mycostatin or Nystatin at 500,000 unit 2-3 times a day.

Not sure how units measure up to the mg you are taking/have taken.









Just was wondering if you where taking enough?


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I was prescribed 100,000 units and I used it after I nursed throughout the day. I didn't know there was a stronger one.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

My mw told my mom to ask for the 500,000 when she called her dr for a prescription.

I have no knowledge in any of this just what I have heard and been told.

Sure hope you get rid of those yeasty soon


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

I just came online to see what I could find on this very topic. My ds and I have had thrush since mid October 2003 (yes! 5 freakin' months!). I am so sick of this. I too have tried Nystatin, Diflucan, and something similar to Monistat - all multiple times. I too have just finished a THREE week dose of Diflucan only to have my son show up with it and now I have it worse than ever. AAAAAAHHHHHH! I'm losing it. But I am determined to make this better. My thoughts...something in me is out of balance. I am planning on going through the archives and then doing some of my own research to see what I can come up with. One thing...I know that acidopholous is good for helping cut yeast. This may sound strange but I was thinking maybe I could sort of bathe my nipples in live culture yogurt and take some acidopholous. Have you tried anything like this?

The only thing I'm concerned with increasing the Diflucan mg is what are the effects on the babe? Lastly, I had my yeast cultured to see if it was anti fungal resistant or if it was actually something other than yeast. The test showed it's just a plain old strain of yeast. Why doesn't the Nystatin cream work AT ALL?

This is long, I know. I don't have any answers yet-- but I was thinking if you find something that works or if I do - let's message each other with the solution. What do you think?


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

I've had thrush and nystatin didn't work for us either. We did have success with Diflucan ( it took two courses though). I didn't find that the diflucan had any side effects for ds.

I do know that probiotics are recommended topically via douche for vaginal yeast, so I don't think it could hurt to apply a probiotic rinse to the yeasty nipples. And maybe some by dropper into baby's mouth, too. There is a strain of bifidus that is commonly given to babies and I've used it for ds during GI troubles due to antibiotics with very good results. I haven't used it for yeast personally though, thankfully we haven't had a recurrence.

Other than that the only thing I can suggest is to do pain management while you are waiting to heal - it really helped me to take pain reliever and also to apply a cold compress after nursing - That was the best pain relief tip I ever got. It feels so good. Just make sure you air dry very well afterwards.

HTH!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

This may be a silly question - but are you treating your baby at the same time? Otherwise you pass it back and forth.

And after that....is your partner getting treated? It's also possible to pass yeast back and forth that way.

Have you checked out all the yeast links at www.kellymom.com ?

And have you tried grapefruit seed extract?

I'm sorry, I wish I could think of something else for you to try.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Wow! Thanks everyone for your advice. Thank you especially for the link to Kellymom. What a terrific website! I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow and hopefully will find something that works. I think I'll try the grapefruit seed extract again. I tried it in the beginning, but didn't use it every hour like the article on kellymom said to do. My daughter was treated in the beginning with Nystatin, but hasn't been treated since. She is two years old and I need to find a new doctor for her. Her doctor thinks she is too old for me to nurse her and doesn't want to prescribe medication to make it easy to continue.


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## Konur's Mom (Jun 28, 2002)

GSE is wonderful stuff! A friend of mine had yeast so bad she had to go to a dermatologist. She used the GSE and it cleared right up. http://www.drjaygordon.com/bf/thrush.htm

I used the topical and the strongest dose.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Lexymama_
*Her doctor thinks she is too old for me to nurse her and doesn't want to prescribe medication to make it easy to continue.*

Doesn't that violate the Hippocratic Oath, since his decision not to treat her is causing you harm?!

And since when is personal opinion equivalent to medical knowledge!!! GRRRR!!!


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## cdahlgrd (Sep 4, 2002)

I agree, it is time for a new Doctor, ASAP!!

I have been fighting yeast for 3 years now. I have done everything in these articles. I thought I had it kicked, but it just came back again. sigh. I will be calling my doc tomorrow.

I used tons of yogurt and dophiluous, garlic, astiligus root, echinacea, goldenseal, pau'd'arco, b vitamins, etc. and monostat, and diflucan sevearl times. Vinigar, diet, etc. It is getting to be a real miserable problem for lots of new mom's!!

Ds hasn't had a problem, but he eats tons of yogurt. Perhas I need more, I don't know.

Good luck and keep trying!!


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Lexymama -- and others suffering from torturous thrush -- I have the solution you may be looking for.

I have posted about it numerous times -- it's called Candex and I used it in conjunction with the candida diet and all the other stuff you are all doing (I battled thrush for almost 4 months and the Candex worked within 48 hours). I even told my gynocologist about it last week so that she could surpass Diflucan altogether.

I too went through several rounds of Diflucan until my homeopath turned me on to this stuff -- he told me to stop Diflucan IMMEDIATELY.

I am amazed that it hasn't become a more widespread therapy for breast yeast -- but then again, it is a natural product that ou can buy at health food stores so major pharmaceutical companies have nothing to gain...but I digress.

I recommend getting it through www.iherb.com for the best deal if you can wait the few days it takes to ship.

It has worked for a number of mamas here too. Sometimes I call myself the Candex Crusader.

Do a search of my username and "candex" if you want more info, or PM me please.

I feel your pain!!!!!! HTH


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to everyone! It is so nice to have support! I have been the only extended nursing woman I know and have felt very isolated at times. It is so nice to finally have found a supportive group! Thanks.









I went to the doctor today and she prescribed Nizoral 2% cream to put on my nipples and another 2 weeks of Diflucan. I haven't filled the Diflucan yet because I still have several days left of the first dose. I'm definately interested in the Candex. I'll check out the link. I'm going to keep using the GSE too. My doctor is going to send a note to my daughter's doctor and let her know that prescribing my daughter the medication is necessary for my care. My doctor is terrific.


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## bilbo333 (Aug 13, 2003)

definitely take the second 2 weeks of Diflucan, air those nipples as much as possible and add the Candex if you can get your hands on some. Make sure you're washing all your bras, towels, sheets, etc. in hot water and consider adding some vinegar to the rinse cycle. Sun light will kill yeast, so hang your clothes out and your boobs out if possible!

If you're also experiencing tissue damage, consider getting some of Jack Newman's all purpose nipple ointment - it requires a script and a compounding pharmacist, but really helps with healing and has an antifungal in it too.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

Sorry, gave you some diet info. and then realized you were already on a yeast-free diet


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Just wanted to put an update on here. The yeast is going away!!!!!!!! I am still on the anti-candida diet, taking acidophillis/bifidis, Diflucan, Yeast-Cleanse (caprylic acid, pau d'arco, grapefruit seed extract, tea tree oil), and Candex along with treating my DD with Nystatin and putting 2 antifungals, an antibiotic and steroid on the nipples. Not sure what is finally kicking it, but it is working!!! Thank you to everyone for your terrific advice.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I am going through the same thing and am so miserable that I am considering weaning. I have had the thrush for at least 6 weeks (DD is 9.5 weeks old). Was given 5 doses of antibiotics in labor because I was GBS positive, so I'm sure that's where it originated. ARGH!!

I am 10 days into my first course of Diflucan and things are not better. I was getting a lot better after about day 5 and then it came back in force on day 7 or so. Baby is getting Nystatin, thugh she shows no signs of thrush herself. We are doing all the boiling, sunning, vinegar, hot water washing. I have just started the anti-yeast diet. I have tried Monistat and the all-purpose nipple ointment (finished the tube, though, and ins co won't cover it).. I am taking grapefruit seed extract, lecithin, acidophilus, garlic, and flaxseed oil.

WHY ISN'T THIS WORKING??? I am so frustrated and in so much pain. I guess I can try the Candex but I am losing hope. Lexymama, what specifically are you using on your nipples? Is it OTC or prescription?


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP UNTIL YOU TRY CANDEX!!!!!!!

go to www.iherb.com IMMEDIATELY!!!!

please please please order some today!

pm me for extra info
-amanda


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I feel for you so much!!!! I am so sorry this is happening to you. All of the cracks in my nipples are gone, I am just dealing with itching now, which is no problem. I've been using Nystatin with 1% hytone (steroid) mixed in it (from the doc) and I mixed in Ketoconazole (Nizoral 2% cream) and Neosporin Plus antibiotic/pain relieving ointment. I've also started putting Acidophilis directly onto my nipples and I feel like it's doing something to heal them . I'm taking 6 acidophillis capsules per day. Maybe ask your doctor for another 2 weeks of the Diflucan too. I think when it's really bad it takes longer than expected to get rid of the yeast. Incidentally, about 2 days after I started the Candex my nipples started healing. I'm not positive that is why, but it is certainly worth it to see if it is.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Thank you for your posts! I am sending my husband to the health food store today to buy the Candex. The LC came today and we think it is probably a combination of thrush plus some latch issues. We are trying a nipple shield for 24 hours to see what happens and will go from there. I'm still keeping up with the diet (gad I am so hungry, though!) and the other supplements. It helps to know that other women have beaten this monster.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

You can eat almonds on the anti-yeast diet. They taste great and have quite a few calories in them. When your husband goes to the health food store ask him to buy some raw almonds and then soak them in water and a little salt for about 6 hours and then roast them in the oven overnight at about 150 degrees and they taste crunchy and delicious. (They digest better this way too). Just an idea for some more calories in this crucial time where you need them so much. Take care!!


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Not sure about this but my Mom mentioned to me after doing a bunch of searching that Candex can only be bought online









Anybody know if this is true or not?


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

That's the only place I found it...


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

I have purchased it at the local health food store but it was VERY expensive and totally worth the 2 day wait to buy it online.

At the store, it was $57/60 caps
At www.iherb.com, it was $42 for 120 caps (only needed the first bottle -- still have 10 caps left -- but I like to keep some onhand in case any more problems eveyr arise. I sold the 120-cap bottle to an MDC mama, who also beat thrush with it!!! )


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Waiting impatiently for my Candex to arrive (it should be here tomorrow)...

Did anyone have their nipples cultured to be sure it was yeast and/or find out what strain it was? The LC suggested this because she is still not 100% sure it's thrush. (Don't know what else it could be, though!!) But no one knows how to find someone who will do this.

I am just doing this one day at a time right now. I have set myself a goal of continuing to BF to at LEAST 12 weeks. That sounds pathetic compared to my pre-birth goal of "till she self-weans," but at this point...


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

I did have a nipple culture because the doc didn't "believe in breast yeast". I expressed some milk onto a swab and it was indeed...breast yeast







: Didn't ask about the strain.

My babe was born in Sept and by Oct. I had committed to bf'ing til the last of the year (after that, I was going to pump til the thrush cleared and formula feed until I could bring baby back to the breast) and the yeast was gone by x-mas (thanks Candex -- shameless plug AGAIN)

PS. While on the Candex (follow the directions exactly -- you take 2 caps 2 hours after eating at night and 2 caps one hour before eating anything in the morning), try to follow a sugar/yeast free diet and drink plenty of green tea. It will work faster the more exactly you can control your diet. PLus keep us with all the washing, etc.

Wishing you the best of luck
,amanda


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Started the Candex yesterday--no improvement yet, but it's only been 24 hours. Yup, I am continuing the diet and all my supplements.

I too am thinking about going to pumping exclusively for a while in hopes of getting this to clear up. Does anyone think this would work? Pumping is mildly painful but not as painful as nursing.

So, Karma, who cultured you--your OB or regular doc?

Also, would love to hear everyone's thrush symptoms described. At times I wonder if I am crazy and this is something else, just because nothing is working and my baby has never shown signs of thrush. Here is what I am experiencing:

Nipples are bright pink and often very hard
Nipples are very sensitive--can't stand to have anything brush up against them or to go without a bra; it's even painful to hold my baby against my chest
Pain is at a consistent level through the whole feeding and lasts for about 1/2 hour afterwards
Pain is burning, stinging, and itchy in nature
No cracks, damage or fissures evident on nipples (I did have a persistent sore from early bad latch, but it is gone now)
Occasional brief, sharp, shooting pains deep in breast after or during a feeding
Tips of nipples sometimes are blanched (white) after a feeding and then become purple, then pink


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Your symptoms sound exactly like my experience with yeast, other than the cracks!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Loraxc, your symptoms actually sound more like vasospasm of the nipple/Raynaud's to me. Read here:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/...blanching.html


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Were you taking fluconazole? Because that causes vasospasm, which is why I have it. I also have yeast, which your other symptoms sound like.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Yes, I just finished my fluconazole yesterday. I also think it sounds like I have vasospasm/Raynaud's but maybe in addition to thrush? Or because of the meds, huh? Argh. Lexymama, are you off the fluconazole now? Is the vasospasm gone?


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I just took my last dose of it this morning, so the vasospasm's not gone yet. I'm hoping it will be soon! Glad to be done with the Diflucan!!! Still have a few symptoms of the yeast, but no pain so hopefully I can get rid of the last of the itching and redness and I will be a happy girl!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

My vasospasm is really getting much better. I think it WAS the fluconazole! Lexymama, how about you?

I am very cautiously reporting *some* improvement. Afraid to say anything because I might jinx it.







: I have been taking the Candex, sticking to my diet (I've lost 5 pounds--now I know what diet works for me, huh?) and using clotrimizole on my nipples. No more vinegar--I think all the dunking was drying my skin. I'm not a Candex miracle yet, but maybe I will be???


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Yes, mine is beginning to get better too! My nipples are not quite as red as they were either. I am like you and don't want to jinx anything, but it certainly seems as if I'm on the road to recovery. Candex, hmm, maybe we'll all be spokeswomen for them...


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Unfortunately, I seem to be relapsing.







This is really a pattern with me--a new treatment works for a few days, I get really excited, and then BAM--it comes back. I am still doing the diet but am really SICK of it and considering modifying it or going off it. It's very hard for me to get enough to eat on this and I am losing weight fairly rapidly--okay for now, since I had about 8 pounds of leftover baby weight to lose, but it won't be okay for much longer, you know?

I am going to start a new thread asking about exclusive pumping, but if anyone has any other ideas, I'd love to hear them.


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## bilbo333 (Aug 13, 2003)

has your SO and dc been treated when you're being treated?? It really sounds as though someone is carrying and re-introducing it - or you don't have a yeast problem, but something else is going on ....


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Hi Loraxc, we seem to be on the same schedule. I'm relapsing too. LAME!


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Argh. Lexymama and loraxc...I am so sorry you guys are going through this. How old are your babies? I wish I could help you more. I was really really hoping you would find your miracle in Candex. I am glad you tried it and experienced a little relief at least. That is really such a shame you are finding yourselves back at square one.






































I don't know what else I can do to help. Please keep updating...I actually think about you guys (and everyone battling thrush) often.


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## Quaniliaz (Oct 11, 2002)

loraxc, I'm so sorry you are having such an awful time w/ yeast while your baby is so little - I've dealt with thrush - though never a case so bad that it really bothered either of us very much. I would encourage you to do a lot of research before you start to pump bm to give to your baby - I've heard that yeast multiplies quickly in pumped bm - and that only scalding the bm will kill it - but also kills a lot of other good stuff in bm. I think pumping actually triggered yeast for my dd and I...

I'd say - go see a homeopathist, and hang in there, if you can. Your body will evenually overcome...

Ohhh--- one more thing...get some Kefir, from the dairy section at the co-op/grocery store... And definately put acidophalis on your nipples and in babies mouth.... (either disolve in water, or directly...)

Marisa


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

How are you doing, Lexymama? I am on the upswing again. I actually stopped most of my topical treatments (in case something else was irritating the nipples) and am just using the Lotrimin a few times a day. I am still on the yeast elimination diet. Definitely not all the way improved, but I'm at a tolerable pain level for now.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Lexymama & loraxc: I posted previously in this thread. My ds and I have also had Thrush, now going on SIX months.







It eases up and comes back. I've considered weaning because I feel like my ds is suffering! He's only 9 months old and he's had thrush for most of his life. I have not tried the Candex. That sounds like it could be promising. We've done or are still doing all the same treatments you all have: diflucan, topicals, nystatin, anti yeast diet, washing in vinegar, boiling toys, etc.

I have two questions: At my bf'ing support group someone suggested that it was really my ds who had the thrush and he keeps re-infecting me. I'm not sure about this because he's been treated all along with me. What I wondering, is when you do the candex do you use it on your baby as well? If not how do you treat him? I would think my ds and I need to be treated concurrently.

My second question is the diet and the washing. I follow the diet but not so faithfully. Also, I change towels, but sometimes I just can't stand to do another load of laundry and I blow it off and use the same towel, etc. Has anyone found that not really following through causes another outbreak or do I REALLY need to be super strict on this?


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

My yeast is back full force with the cracked, bleeding painful nipples. I went off the diet for a few days. I stopped using anything topical on them. Probably the reason it is back so horribly. DEPRESSING! I will begin everything again and see if I can get rid of it. I refuse to go back on Diflucan because I was beginning to get ill with it.

Jacksmama ~ my advice is do EVERYTHING and don't stop. Treat your baby too. Grapefruit seed extract can be used in baby's mouth too.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Lexymama, I am so sorry! I guess I'd better keep up with my topical stuff. Today I'm worse again anyway.







: It just is so cyclical. I don't want to take the Diflucan again either--the vasospasm is much better since I've been off it.

Jacksmama, yikes, six months. You're scaring me! Why is this stuff so hard to get rid of? It seems like persistent yeast is a newly emerging problem--my LC has never dealt with a case as bad as mine before and my midwives seem to think it is really bizarre, but here you all are, too.

Like you, I am finding it hard to keep up with the laundry and the diet. I screwed up and ate a hoagie roll tonight when we had guests--I wasn't thinking. It's all such a lot of extra work and trouble.

As to Candex, I don't know if you can give it to the baby. I didn't. Everyone keeps telling me my baby must have thrush too, but she has *never* had any patches in her mouth and only occasionally gets a a few spots of diaper rash that go away with ointment. We did give her the Nystatin, but that's all.

It's such a bummer that I really don't even know what it is like to nurse without pain. First couple of weeks, I had the typical cracked and bleeding nipples...that resolved, but then I got mastitis...then the thrush. Sigh.


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## whitecrew4 (Dec 28, 2002)

My Dr mentioned that she's culturing more cases of yeast and finding staph and strep along with the yeast.
So what may seem like a super resistant strain of yeast may be something else as well.
Never hurts to check things out.
Nancy


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## schatz (May 6, 2003)

One year ago today I had a plugged duct, majorly cracked nipple, mastitis and a wicked case of yeast on my breast - ack! It was horrendous. I read the posts here but can't recall if you've tried gentian violet. That's what worked for me. Put some on your nipple and your babe gets it too. I also did GSE, probiotics, anti candida diet, newman's all purpose ointment, pau d'arco, goldenseal - probably other things but it's a blur now. I battled the yeast from the end of April until August when I found out that I had actually kicked the yeast but had in turn acquired nipple eczema. My nipples actually felt better after I stopped all of my anti yeast treatments and used an ointment twice per day prescribed by the derm.

Just wanted to share my situation and suggest the gentian violet if you haven't tried it.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Has anyone tried ThreeLac? It sounds good, but wanted to hear from someone who actually used it before I waste more money on yeast treatment.


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## AppleOrangePear (Apr 17, 2004)

HI all I think IM in the same boat as all of you.DS is 6 months







:







: Since I was pregnant I began having white scaly patches on my legs ( resembled ring worm kinda) I figured it must be yeast as all growing up when id lay out in the sun you could see alll the white spots.. well currently and since hes been born my nipples are bright pink(however not sore) and i have lil dry patches on legs and stomach. This sounds really nutty but I have 3 dogs and think they alll ahve a yeast problem also ( yeast ear infections licking etc) UGH im beginiing to think our whole family is an OUTBREAK! Ive been ignoring my spots and nipples hwover im making an apt with dr. Im now noticing simlar lil dry patches on DS .... Im neurotic as it is but I think in the back of my head that Some Drs are trying to link some autism cases to overgrowth of yeast..AHHHHH so i really want to get a hold of this. SO does anyone else have patches on there skin or white spots? Ill also let you know what my DR says when I get in for an apt can a regular MD do a skin scrape?


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

My son and I have been suffering from thrush for a few months now. We've tried Gentian Violet(took it away for a few days), vinegar, washing everything in hot water, sugar/yeast elimination, Goldenseal & Echinacea, Capryllic acid, Nystatin, Lotrimon cream, raw garlic, acidopholis, boiling. The list goes on!

Our thrush isn't that bad. My doctor didn't even think it was thrush until she did a culture and it just came back positive. I knew it! My nipples are red, sore and I have sharp shooting pains in my breasts when letdown occurs. My son has white patches in his mouth that come and go. It seems to have gotten better now that the weather is warm, but it is still there.

My doctor suggested taking Diflucan for 1-2 days and supplimenting with formula, or pumping beforehand and supplimenting with that. I am definitely not open to formula and I can't even imagine my son taking a bottle for 2 days. He nurses for comfort and to go to sleep, I just won't break his heart by not allowing him to.

My question is this, those of you who have been on Diflucan for weeks, did you nurse while on it? My doctor says this is absolutely not recommended. She said it's dangerous. I don't know what to think. I don't wholely trust the medical community, but I have to go to this doctor because it's what my insurance will pay for. I am desperate to get rid of this yeast problem for good. I just ordered the Candex and hopeflully that will help. I am also going to get some GSE because we haven't tried that yet. Does it come in a powder? How am I supposed to use it?

I'm so glad I found this board and this post! It's good to know I'm not alone in this. The doctor treated me like I didn't know what I was talking about and like we didn't have thrush, and she seems less educated about all of it than I am. It's frusterating!


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

I also wanted to add that we have been seeing out chiropractor also and she said to just keep taking acidopholis, but it hasn't taken the thrush away. I feel lost and like nobody has a solution that works!


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

It sounds like your doc is misinformed. Diflucan is even approved for infant use now. Read this article by Jack Newman regarding Diflucan. http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/20.html I took it for six weeks and noticed no side effects in my daughter and she nursed the entire time. Taking it for 2 days will most likely not help. It takes quite a while to get rid of the yeast. GSE comes in a little bottle and you mix it with water and then use a q-tip to put it on your nipples and in the babies mouth.


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Vegan Sculptor...your thrush sounds a lot like mine...not super painful but definitely super persistent.

I had my MD say NO to Diflucan, but I had a Lac.Consultant say it was okay,. So I went to a homeopath and he said NO NO NO. I had already done two week-long rounds of Diflucan by this time, so I decided a third would be torture. It seemed to agitate baby';s tummy too.

I am SO glad to see you are going to try Candex. Do this before you even consider taking Diflucan.

Once you start the Candex, be faithful to all your washing routines and supplements...moreso than ever before. If you are going to beat this thrush, it is going to be everything all at once. You have to starve it right out of your system. DOn't forget to do the candida diet for two full weeks while the Candex works its semi-magic.

I am rooting for you!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

That link didn't work









I TOLD my doctor that I had even read that they give it to infants now and she looked at me like I was CRAZY! She said that anyone can say something on the internet, but it doesn't mean it's true!







: I just don't get it. How can she be so misinformed? Do you have anymore websites that say it is okay? Thanks


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Oh, Lexymama and I posted at the same time. I agree with her that if you take only a couple days of Diflucan, you might as well not take any at all. That is not nearly enough to kill breast yeast.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I edited that link. Try it again. Did it work?


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

Thank you Amanda, I am weary of taking Diflucan. I think I will just wait and get the Camdex and try to get back into taking all the suppliments. It is so hard to go without sugar because I know my body is dependant on it, but I am going to do this once and for all! I went off sugar for awhile, but it didn't seem to make a difference. I think I am going to also juice and sprout a lot and try to eat mostly raw for awhile.


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

The link worked this time, thanks! It is the same information I had read some time ago. I wonder if I showed this website to my doctor if she'd think I was nuts? I don't know if it is worth the effort. I would like to educate her though even if I don't end up doing a round of Diflucan.


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## schatz (May 6, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by VeganSculptor_
*My doctor suggested taking Diflucan for 1-2 days and supplimenting with formula, or pumping beforehand and supplimenting with that. I am definitely not open to formula and I can't even imagine my son taking a bottle for 2 days. He nurses for comfort and to go to sleep, I just won't break his heart by not allowing him to.
*
If you give your son bottles and/or use a pump, you will have to boil all of the parts that come in contact with the milk after each use. It is royal pain!!! There is no need for you to give your son a bottle now if it is not part of your lives already. I had to boil bottles and pump parts for weeks and weeks while I beat the yeast because I worked outside the home. Your doc doesn't know what she's talking about. Also, 1 or 2 days won't have an effect.

Are you giving your son the acidophilous too? He should be getting it to balance out his system. Break open a capsule, wet your finger, dip it in the powder and let your son suck it off.

BTW, Jack Newman is one of the most educated people when it comes to bf (IMO) and he's a doc. It's not as if you're reading some random website.

Good luck and just wanted to add my $.02 about the bottles/pump.


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Vegan...I KNOW how hard it is to go off sugar. And it's not just sugar, either. You need to cease all foods that encourage the yeast and give it a nice place to multiply, including cheese, mushrooms, some nuts, all sugar, most fruits, etc. You have to even drink distilled water if you want to go hardcore (which I totally advocate b/c that is the best way to beat the yeast).

The hardest part about giving up sugar is that the yeast is making you crave it b/c it wants to survive. So it sends a message to your brain/stomach for you to consume more sugar so it can thrive. Total mindf*** if you ask me.

I battled thrush physically, but I also felt my sanity slipping and depression was impending. I beat it just before i got to teh end of my rope.








I sympathize.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I have mixed feelings regarding the Diflucan. Before I took it I was having excruciating pain. Now I have cracked and bleeding nipples again, but it is nothing like the pain I had before the Diflucan. I wish it had completely cured me of it, but I guess I'm glad I took it so that I am not in the pain I was before (which I compared to labor pain!!!)


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

VeganSculptor, you could buy Jack Newman's book and then bring it to your doc. Maybe she would be more influenced by a book, than a webpage.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by VeganSculptor_
*
My question is this, those of you who have been on Diflucan for weeks, did you nurse while on it?

.....The doctor treated me like I didn't know what I was talking about and like we didn't have thrush, and she seems less educated about all of it than I am. It's frusterating!*
VeganSculptor: I too nursed while on 2 separate rounds of Diflucan and all the while my ds was also on his on prescription of Diflucan as well. We had no problems with it _except_ I got the worst bout of diarrhea after both times. The first time it happened I thought it was a bug. I was sick for 10 days! The second time after 3 days of diarrhea I figured it was the diflucan. I broke down and took a half dose of immodium, loaded up on pro-biotics and prayed that all this suffering was not in vain and that our thrush had gone for good. Which btw, it did not go away. My ds had no diarrhea or no noticeable effects from Diflucan.

As for the doc...my doc doesn't even own a bf'ing & medication book. Do none of her patients BF?? I've had to educate her on this whole thing as well! Also, she treats me like a bit like an annoyance since my thrush won't go away. She told me last time that if the Diflucan doesn't work then she's sending me to a dermatologist. I don't what he's going to do!

Keep the faith!


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Jacksmama, Beware of the dermatologist. When I went they had me put vasoline on my nipples and a super strong steroid. After I had a plugged duct I learned from my lactation specialist that one must NEVER use vasoline on nipples. Plus, the steroid made the yeast worse!


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

I'm glad you told me that. The tone in my dr's voice when she said that was one of exasperation - and I felt she was just shluffing me off to a derm because she didn't want to deal. I think I'm either going to a Naturopath MD (which my insurance will cover partially) or a great lact consult in my area (which my insurance doesn't cover). I have to think about this.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Whichever poster it is whose doc won't prescribe Diflucan - the doc is dead wrong. Yes, Diflucan does have risks and side effects but the amount your baby would get through your milk is not even close to the dose your baby would get if prescribed it. My midwives and my pediatrician had zero problem with me taking Diflucan for 4 weeks. Take the Newman book to the doc (you could probably get it through your library, although it is worth having!)

Or you could always refer the doctor to the AAP approved list of drugs for nursing mothers; fluconazole (Diflucan) is on the list. http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/...ml#Antifungals (you can link to the AAP site from there). Tell your doctor from me that she's an idiot.









Quote:

This sounds really nutty but I have 3 dogs and think they alll ahve a yeast problem also ( yeast ear infections licking etc) UGH im beginiing to think our whole family is an OUTBREAK!
There is another mama (lexbeach) on the boards who battled thrush for months and only got it cleared up when she gave her two cats away. I know her story is on here somewhere, or you could PM her.


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## KarmaChameleon (Aug 25, 2003)

Someone I know laughed when I was using Gentian Violet on my baby's mouth because that's what she used on her dogs' ears...???


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

Thanks for all your help girls. I had my doctor read Jack Newman's article about Diflucan and she didn't even call back, instead she had her nurse call back and say she was going to prescribe it,but that she still didn't recommend nursing while taking that. I think she just doesn't want it on her back if he does have side effects. She expects me just to stop nursing for 9 days and give my son formula(we are vegan and there is no such thing as a vegan formula anyway) and I told her that I will not do that. For one thing it would traumatize him to stop nursing for that long or just suddenly. It makes me sad to even think of it!

I don't know if I'll get the prescription or not. I did get the Candex in the mail yesterday so we'll see how that goes. She said to give my son Gentian Violet again so mabye I'll treat us both with that again. I'm just tired of this thrush! I don't even think I could permenantly give up sugar. I already don't eat any meat or dairy. I don't even eat much sugar, but a piece of fruit here and there or a muffin with fructose in it is nice once in awhile.

How much is Diflucan anyway? I do have pretty good insurance, but I'm still scared of how much it will cost.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I gave up the fruit for several weeks, but honestly don't think it made a difference, except that I felt less healthy and started really craving it. Personally, I don't think it is necessary to give up fruit, and a little fructose isn't going to hurt you. I have a friend who is a nurse and said to me, "It all turns into sugar during digestion anyway."

With my health insurance, which only pays 50% of the prescription, my payment was $150.00 for two weeks of Diflucan. It is expensive.

Don't give up the nursing. My lac specialist said that the little bit of Diflucan that gets to the baby is good because it will help rid the baby of any that he/she might have. I never noticed any side effects in dd. Hopefully the Candex will work for you and you won't have to use the Diflucan.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I absolutely continued nursing while on my 2 weeks of Diflucan. My midwifery practice prescribed it and they are a very medicalized midwifery practice (good in some ways, bad in others). My pediatrician also knew I was on it, and they all thought it was fine.

I would, however, be somewhat wary of the Diflucan because of its potential to cause Raynaud's syndrome of the nipple. Both Lexymama and I got this as a side effect. Mine is pretty much gone now--is yours, Lexy?

Anyway, I'm still on this damn merry-go-round too. The yeast waxes and wanes--I have bad days and better ones--with no apparent pattern or relation to what I do or don't do, or eat or don't eat. I am still avoiding sugar and white flour but am eating small amounts of cheese, fruit and whole wheat flour. I was miserable on the strict diet, and I don't notice anything getting worse now that I am off it. I'm also slacking off on the supplements.

Honestly, so much money and emotional energy has gone into fighting this...I am just tired of it, and willing to cope with this pain level for now. I have to confess that my dreams of nursing till self-weaning are long gone. I will be happy if I make it to nine months. I am hoping that introducing solids at 5 months or so (again, not part of the original plan, but you do what you gotta do) will help me out somewhat.

Here's one danger of yeast you all may not have thought of: burning down your house.







I spaced out and left pacifiers and pump parts boiling on the stove till the pan went dry. Completely melted the pacis and destroyed the pump parts. Fortunately, the Isis comes with an extra of one of the parts, and the other (the "massager cushion") is not necessary for the pump to work (who knew?)

I am still looking for new miracle cures if anyone finds one, of course. I still wonder if I have dermatitis. There is a very obvious pink region on the tip of each nipple. It's not the whole nipple anymore; just the tip. That part of the nipple is also flecked with tiny purple dots.


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## VeganSculptor (Apr 20, 2004)

Lexymama, I wouldn't give up nursing for anything







Even if I had to have thrush till he self weans. I am with you though, I gave up sugar for quite awhile and it didn't do anything. Diflucan is so expensive. I'm waiting to hear how much they'll charge me.

Is Raynaud's Syndrome the white things in the nipple? I think I read about that once. I do have those already and have since I started nursing. I had to use a nipple shield to get my son to latch on and it took 2 months to get him weaned of that and onto my bare nipple. So yes, I will do anything to bf









Loraxc I melted some of my son's toys that I didn't realize couldn't be boiled..lol. Oh well. They weren't his favorites and he never noticed. Your nipple does not sound like mine at all. Mine are very bright pink and get flaky sometimes. It flares up and then goes away. I'm not even in much pain. I just hate that our bodies are out of balance.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I think you were talking to me, not Lexymama, vegan, right?

It's not even so much the pain that is bothering me directly anymore...it's the fact that coping with the pain for hours/day (DD nurses 30 minutes, generally) takes so much out of me that I feel I really am not at my best as a parent.







I have had days where I even wondered if formula and a happy mama were better than BFing and a miserable mama. But the truth is that I would NOT be a happy mama if I were using formula, so...

I only paid $30 (my brand-name copay) for my two weeks of Diflucan. I have been waiting pessimistically for them to somehow catch on and bill me, but the pharmacist said that wasn't possible.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by loraxc_
*Honestly, so much money and emotional energy has gone into fighting this...I am just tired of it,....*
loraxc: You took the words from my own heart. I feel frustrated and a little po'd because I can't heal myself. I'll get all fired up and I'll tell myself, "You ARE going to be healed. You ARE NOW in balance..." and I work like crazy to boil every nipple, wash every towel, avoid any flour etc. but usually after four weeks I'm deflated and I stop being so vigilant about treatment. I feel so terrible that my ds who is 9 mos old has had thrush since he's been 3 mos. His body has been overgrown with yeast for 6 months. How awful that is. I wonder if I'm setting him up for a lifelong problem with yeast.









Lexymama: I can't believe your Diflucan was $150.00. Holy Guacamole! I had no idea. My dh has great work sponsored health insurance. I didn't realize I was so lucky. My four week supply was $20.

I did want to add that my ds's pediatrician, although a very conventional doctor, is also very wise and willing to think new thoughts...said that she went to a convention this past week where they discussed various drug resistant maladies that are cropping up. Yeast infections came up and there was a discussion about treatments. After hearing all the points of view at this convention, she told me that since we had done 2 courses of Diflucan she did not want to treat us with conventional medicine any longer. She told me to really concentrate (physically and mentally) on achieving a balance in our bodies. We talked a bit about the different things all of you have talked about here at MDC. So, my point in this is our pediatrician thinks we're all doing the very best we can - and that the medical community is somewhat amiss when they just throw thoughtless medicines over and over at this problem (or tell you to use vaseline on nipples, etc!).

You know, I'm not sure where any of you stand religious-wise / spiritually but I've begun praying - in earnest - for this thrush to go away and for health for my ds and I. I'll let you know how that works.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

How's everyone's yeast doing? Do you all still have it? Mine has never gone away, but fluctuates along with my cycles in how much pain it causes.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Hi ladies,

I've been lurking for a short time and this thread just blows me away. I've had thrush for about 4 months and can't get rid of it. I should have come here sooner - you guys have some great information. I'm going to look for candex right now! I am already gluten free, dairy free and soy free so sugar has been my only vice. I've been avoiding it for about 2 weeks and when I cheat I can really tell the difference. My OB has prescribed diflucan 2 pills 2 separate times but my ins co won't cover a 2 week supply. We've sent in an appeal. fyi - When I called around to local pharmacies a 2 week supply for 150mg costs from $180 - $280 without ins coverage. I have no idea what my copay would be if it is covered but for each set of 2 pills it was $25. My 9mo DS shows no signs but I'm an itchy and sometimes bloody mess. I'm currently taking gse, echinacea, garlic and acidophilous. I'm using nystatin all day and cortisone cream over night as DS sleeps pretty well these days once he goes down.

I hope we can all beat the yeasty beasty soon!

Susan


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

lexymama: Glad you checked in! I was just thinking of doing the same yesterday. But I was feeling a little shy.








My yeast is still there, just very low grade. I have almost no pain, just a little redness on each nipple and occassionally I have tenderness when nursing. My son is an extremely quick nurser. A full fledge feeding for him average only about 5 - 7 minutes in total. My thrush might hurt more if he took longer?? My ds also still has low grade thrush in his mouth. It's just a slight white haze all over.
Right now I'm on my second tube of terazol. I've been putting it on each nipple after feeding. Ds and I still take pro-biotics daily. Other than that I've just stalled in my treatment - we're not trying anything new at the moment. I've yet to try the candex. I'm weary and pissed and I'm of the mind set that if the yeast stays this low grade then we'll just live with it. Although talk to me in a few weeks...I might change my mind.


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## Tupelo Honey (Mar 24, 2004)

This thread has gotten too long for me to read all of it. I assume Dr. Newman's handouts have been covered? I also have ongoing yeast that cropped up after my dd was a year! All of the sudden the nipple got deep cracks where it meets the aereola and it HURT! It's not as bad now but my nipples peel and itch to varying degrees. The vinegar rinses seem to help. I use monistat cream during the day some--since dd is 1 1/2 she goes long stretches without nursing. I'm going to try the GSE next. Even though it's mainly recommended for yeast in the ducts, it can't hurt, right? I think it is as effective as Diflucan and works the same way--systemically. The closest I have come to getting rid of it was when I took 3 cloves of raw garlic to get rid of a sinus infection. But dd just gave it to me again. I figured out a way to get some garlic in her now so I am going to dose us both really well. But with a little baby you can't do that.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I have such mixed feelings regarding the yeast and all of you other mamas suffering. On the one hand I am so glad that I am not alone in this. On the other I am extremely sad that others are going through the same thing! I'm also amazed at how hard the yeast is to get rid of. Thank you to everyone for your stories and support. I hope we all can beat this someday (maybe when our babes are weaned).


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tupelo Honey*
The closest I have come to getting rid of it was when I took 3 cloves of raw garlic to get rid of a sinus infection. I figured out a way to get some garlic in her now so I am going to dose us both really well. But with a little baby you can't do that.

Tupelo Honey: When you say you took 3 cloves of garlic, do you mean you swallowed whole raw cloves? Were there any side effects from this?

Also, how can you dose your dd? Are you putting it in her food?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I also have not kicked the thrush. Mine is very cyclical--it improves, then gets worse again. I went off the diet a couple of weeks ago and haven't noticed that it matters. I was losing my mind (and too much weight). I don't really eat any sugar, though.

For treatment, I alternate Monistat and Lotrimin on my nipples a few times a day. I have tried cutting those out but it seems to have an impact. I am off all the supplements. I used them all up and can't stomach spending another $60 when I don't even know if they worked.

I have noticeable changes on the tips of my nipples that can be seen at all times. It is a purplish pink area. I am pretty sure the pain is all localized in those areas. They have gotten smaller, so I guess I am hoping they will just disappear some day.

I have also been concentrating really hard on positioning in hopes that perfect positioning might help. I actually have a call in to the hospital LC just to see if she has any more suggestions. My private LC seems to be out of ideas.

It has been a hard week pain-wise and I have found myself contemplating exclusive pumping again. I really don't know that I can bear this for another 9 months.









I think thrush is really emerging as a problematic resistant infection and we are on the "front lines," so to speak. I post on another parenting board and am noticing an increasing # of moms and babies there with resistant thrush as well.


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## Tupelo Honey (Mar 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jacksmama*
Tupelo Honey: When you say you took 3 cloves of garlic, do you mean you swallowed whole raw cloves? Were there any side effects from this?

Also, how can you dose your dd? Are you putting it in her food?

I take garlic medicinally for my twice-yearly sinus infections. In the past I would just cut it into pill-sized pieces and swallow it with orange juice, which masks the taste pretty well. Lately, I mince it very fine and mix it with about a tsp. of honey, just enough to coat it and make it go down smoothly, and scoop it up in a spoon to take like medicine, swallowed down with water. The only side effect is a few hours of garlic breath. I find that if I do it late in the afternoon/early evening, by the next morning I smell fine (believe me, dh will let me know, lol). It works great and besides killing yeast and other yukky things (it's great for the sore throat you get from sinus drainage), it is also very good for your heart because it helps cleanse the blood of impurities. I wasn't even thinking about the yeast when I did it recently, but I noticed a few days later that my nipples were looking and feeling very normal!

What I did for dd was put two peeled garlic cloves (I knew I wouldn't get much down so I was going for concentration) with about an ounce of orange juice in the blender and completely liquified it. I gave it to her in a medicine dropper. I got one whole dropper in and it really was no worse than giving her any other meds. She has had a nasty cold for weeks so that was my motivation, really. Within 24 hours, her nosed stopped its constant running and the inside of her bottom lip, which has been all bubbly-blistery looking for months, looks almost completely normal.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Loraxc, I am so sorry you are going through this with such a young baby. Mine is extremely painful again this morning, but it is always painful for me during the week or so before my period. One of my nipples is cracked and bleeding again. I stopped the diet too and didn't notice any difference in the yeast. I'm avoiding sugar too. I wish someone would figure out a cure for us with this resistant yeast!


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## punky123 (Nov 3, 2002)

Ugh, I just discovered that my baby and I have thrush/yeast infections. I can't tell you how upset I was 'cuz I know how intractable yeast can be. My aunt has been battling systemic yeast infection since September!

I just wanted to add a treatment that has really helped my nipples and breasts. I found it at this site: http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/bestfeed.html

Here's the excerpt:
" In my practice, I rely on essential oil of rosemary when treating thrush & coincident candidal infection of a nursing mom. An herbalist who I'd taken care of told me about this. It has been reliable, pleasing to the infant's taste buds and not messy. I have the mom dilute 2 drops of essential oil of rosemary in 1/4 tsp. olive oil, mix well then swab the tongue & buccal mucosa with this three times a day. Mom can just use her finger to do this. I also ask that the mom purchase cocoa butter and add 2 drops of rosemary to 1/4 tsp. cocoa butter (warmed in the hands to soften it). This mix massaged into the nipple and 1 1/4 inch radially of the surrounding breast up to 6 times/day has both addressed the candida infection and helped heal up the raw areola in my experience."

I started using the cocoa butter/rosemary oil treatment yesterday and almost immediately my breasts felt better--they were starting to hurt pretty bad and had small cracks around the nipples. I haven't tried the olive oil/rosemary yet.

Also, I just ordered a formula called "Beat the Yeast" from
http://www.theherbalist.com--I'm hoping it helps, maybe it's similar to the Candex.

I know I'm in for a long haul and had to go through a lot of emotions yesterday before settling on the one day at a time idea.

Best of luck and healing to all the rest of you who are dealing with this as well.

BTW, my son is 13 months old, any mothers with children this age dealing with yeast infection for the first time?


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Punky....I've seen that "Beat the Yeast" stuff in my local health food store. Let us know how it works. My ds and I have had thrush since he was very small so I have no comments on an older baby getting it.

I did have a question for all out there.....I was wondering if any of you have a history of vaginal yeast infections? I know that when I was younger in my 20's I always seemed to have a yeast infection. They are very common in my family. I went to the dr. for them often. Even when I didn't have an active overgrowth frequently it would be a little painful after being intimate -- and I suspected that I always had a low grade yeast invasion. However, as I've gotten older it's seemed to subside. Although I do seem to get them once a year or every year and a half. I'm just wondering if some of us are more prone to them than others - and if maybe I've had this overgrowth of yeast even before I had my ds. Anyone else have this?


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Big news flash:

I don't have thrush anymore--and may never have had it at all. I went in for my fourth LC consult today, and she finally diagnosed a congenital problem: my baby has a high "bubble" palate, meaning my nipple is constantly scraping across her hard palate. I probably have secondary Raynaud's as a result of all the damage from this. I can't believe no one checked for this before, but it does make sense. Unfortunately, there is no solution, except for aggressive positioning and time. I now am going to have to decide whether I want to go to exclusive pumping or how many feedings I want to replace with pumped milk.

This is worth checking into if anyone thinks they are not entirely sure their prob is yeast. I think I did have it, because my pain used to be a lot worse and a lot more itchy, but that I did get rid of it. This however is why the pain NEVER resolved.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Loraxc ~ Wow, I'm so happy they finally figured out what is really going on, and that you don't have yeast anymore!! Yay for you!!!!!!


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## kofduke (Dec 24, 2002)

Mamas, I just wanted to say how impressed I am that you are working through this. My DS is 16 months old, and only nurses 2X/day, and I just came down with my first case of thrush...it is so painful when he nurses that I'm having to limit the time he's at the breast. I can't imagine what it would be like with a littler one who nurses all the time. My hat is just off to you.


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## punky123 (Nov 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jacksmama*
Punky....I've seen that "Beat the Yeast" stuff in my local health food store. Let us know how it works. My ds and I have had thrush since he was very small so I have no comments on an older baby getting it.

I did have a question for all out there.....I was wondering if any of you have a history of vaginal yeast infections? I know that when I was younger in my 20's I always seemed to have a yeast infection. They are very common in my family. I went to the dr. for them often. Even when I didn't have an active overgrowth frequently it would be a little painful after being intimate -- and I suspected that I always had a low grade yeast invasion. However, as I've gotten older it's seemed to subside. Although I do seem to get them once a year or every year and a half. I'm just wondering if some of us are more prone to them than others - and if maybe I've had this overgrowth of yeast even before I had my ds. Anyone else have this?

I got the Beat the Yeast set in the mail a couple days ago, but it has such a large mix of herbs that I think I may not use it. I'm not really sure of the safety of that many herbs with nursing.

When I have time I'll do some research about the particular herbs.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I was going to come on today and ask about the beat the yeast because I've got the stuff in my ducts again.







: Bloody, painful nipples.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

punky123 said:


> I started using the cocoa butter/rosemary oil treatment yesterday and almost immediately my breasts felt better--they were starting to hurt pretty bad and had small cracks around the nipples. I haven't tried the olive oil/rosemary yet.
> 
> Is this working for you?????? I'm desperate for a cure once again.


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## punky123 (Nov 3, 2002)

The rosemary essential oil and cocoa butter is AWESOME. I'm serious, it stopped the pain within 24 hours. I'm using breast pads to keep from getting all my bras and shirts oily.

As for the Beat the Yeast, maybe I'm being overcautious but here's the list of stuff that's in the bottles:
Herbal-Biotic has: oregan grape, golden seal, and yerba mansa (I know nothing about yerba mansa or oregan grape)

Astragalus Plus has: astragalus, echinacea, lomatium, wild indigo, myrrh, poke, yarrow, and cayenne

Anti-Fungal has: thuja, spilanthes, usnea, pau d'arco, echinacea, calendula, and cayeen

Since I really don't know the effect or what some of these herbs are (yet) I'm not comfortable taking them while nursing.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Thank you for the information! I'll go to the health food store today and try and find the rosemary essential oil and cocoa butter.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I went to my first Le Leche League meeting yesterday. It was so terrific! Anyway, I talked to a leader there about the Beat The Yeast Triple Care kit (which I received today) and she looked in her book about herbs and said that it is fine to take while breastfeeding. I just took my first dose and am so excited and hopeful to see a change.

P.S. the rosemary and cocoa butter made my yeast worse very quickly. After discontinuing use of it for the day it has gotten some better. I guess different things work for different people!


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Beat The Yeast Triple Care Kit works. I am in awe as my nipples are in less pain every day.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Hooray! I'm sooo happy for you!







Mine is also fading. Although I'm not doing anything really. It's still there...but just a smidgeon.

Glad to hear you're feeling better!


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## CherylE (Oct 9, 2003)

Well I think I posted on this thread back pages ago about my doctor not prescribing diflucan. I found a clinic that would - went through a month's treatment, combined with doing Gentian Violet, no sugar/dairy/breads, GSE and Acidophilus. The Yeast seemed like it was almost gone.

Then I got mastitis 2 weeks ago - ended up on Antibiotics and now am back to ductal yeast again (also have the Reynaulds going on too) as well as pink, shiny very sore crack nipples.









I'm just so tired of this and it's so, so painful. With 2 babies who are nursing all the time - it's really tough. I don't know if the clinic doctor (if I can even catch the same one) will prescribe more Diflucan or not. I'll try when I can get out - but I've been housebound because the kids have chickenpox and nothings open when dh is home.

Anyway I think I"m more prone to it - had a history of vaginal infections and have had some degree of thrush with EVERY baby.







: This time is the worst though.


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

You definately need a







! I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. Having two little ones so young who constantly need to nurse on your poor sore nipples. Ouch!! I feel for you.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

CherylE:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherylE*
This time is the worst though.

I just wrote you this nice, long reply and somehow the page just vanished and I lost my post!







I hate when that happens.

Basically the gist of what I said was that I know how hard it was to nurse my son with raging thrush and cracks. I can't imagine having TWO nursing!







: I doubted if nursing was really for us. But I kept at every remedy I could find, that sounded reasonable. In the end I think a combination of a 2 mo dose of terazol cream on my nipples, a four week diflucan course for ds and I, cutting back on yeast promoting foods, acidopholous for both and earnest prayers of healing, all worked. We are mostly cured. I still have this stubborn patch of red on one nipple that won't go away. After a long nursing session it can be a bit sore, but I wouldn't call it real pain. I have no cracking or anything like that.

So, there is hope! And who knows, maybe none of that worked and it just ran it's course! In the meantime I send you healing thoughts and vibes of strength!


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

Jacksmama ~ Did your ds take Diflucan too? If so, what was the dosage and everthing. I'm back with the yeast again and have never really treated my dd for it and think that's why I keep getting it back.


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## punky123 (Nov 3, 2002)

Cheryl--If you can get a hold of some essential oil of rosemary and cocoa butter--mix two drops of oil into a dap of cocoa butter for each nipple and apply once or twice a day--this REALLY REALLY (if I could make the font bigger and bolder I would) helped with the pain and cracking. I seemed to help keep things under control after we did the liquid nystatin for baby and just a little bit of diflucan for me.

I can't imagine how tired you are, especially with two nursing babes. My best wishes to you.


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## punky123 (Nov 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lexymama*
I went to my first Le Leche League meeting yesterday. It was so terrific! Anyway, I talked to a leader there about the Beat The Yeast Triple Care kit (which I received today) and she looked in her book about herbs and said that it is fine to take while breastfeeding. I just took my first dose and am so excited and hopeful to see a change.

P.S. the rosemary and cocoa butter made my yeast worse very quickly. After discontinuing use of it for the day it has gotten some better. I guess different things work for different people!

Yikes! That's so weird (about the rosemary/cocoa butter). I guess so. At least the BTY mixture is doing its job. I got over my fear of the herbs and started taking it and I really feel like it along with the rosemary have healed things--I'm pretty much back to feeling normal and my baby's mouth only has occasional small white patches. We did a course of liquid nystatin for my son that cleared up the really bad stuff and not it's just maintenance.


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## Tupelo Honey (Mar 24, 2004)

I'm so sorry for those of you having such a hard time still with this. I had posted to this thread, and then I posted a few days ago a new trhread about how I got rid of it (so far so good still).

I think with all the problems we are having with stuff being resistant to treatment, there are new, weird strains of yeast and other fungal infections out there. It may be worth it to have your OB or a dermatologist do a culture to see exactly what is growing on your nipples. I lways prefer to use natural remedies, but none of them were working for me. Then the Bactroban/Elocon combo I did worked so fast it made my head spin. The tips of my nipples were about to gall off for 6 months! I wish I had gotten Dr. N's APNO made up sooner, as it has the same type of components as what ended up working for me.

Also, here's a link for herbal safety while breastfeeding:
http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/index.html


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lexymama*
Jacksmama ~ Did your ds take Diflucan too? If so, what was the dosage and everthing. I'm back with the yeast again and have never really treated my dd for it and think that's why I keep getting it back.

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. I finally was able to access ds's records at Walgreens. He had a couple of prescrips - but the thrush kept coming back because our meds were never coordinated properly. We finally had to take diflucan at the same time for about 2 weeks. His prescrip was DIFLUCAN 10MG/ML ORAL SUSP 35ML . He took 10 ml the first day and then 5 mls for the next 10 days. You should note that he finished his diflucan before me and the thrush has still not cleared up so I called his ped and asked for another round which she gave me - and he took all of it. I was taking diflucan as well and using terazol cream on my nipples, rubbing it in very thoroughly. So far he has not had a reoccurence of thrush, although I just started another bout of it last week. He is showing no signs of it. I've been using the terazol cream only and it seems to be working.


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## lovemygirl (Feb 22, 2002)

Hey all,

So sorry you all are dealing with this...I too dealt with it for SEVERAL months with dd...she is 3 now and we still go through the vaginal yeast symptoms every once in a while. My breast yeast and her gassy/fussy/colicky symptoms went away a long time ago, but it still is present in our bodies and goes nuts sometimes. Her diaper rash went on for several months/years...would go away and come back etc.

What I wanted to touch on is what we did. If you are doing Diflucan(flucanazole) there is a specific regime/aka dosage that needs to be taken. Many docs have no clue about how much to prescribe and then they say oh I can't do too much its dangerous.







:

The pediatrician and lac consultant (husband and wife team in Greensboro, NC) that I worked with (AWESOME!) explained that its not dangerous for you and baby to take Diflucan for a while---we were on it for 4 months. Baby takes the oral suspension of Diflucan and you take the pills (however I found Diflucan to work well for my breast yeast but not for my vaginal yeast--ever).

They looked up in the medical book and showed me the half life of the medicine, ie. how much was in my body and how long before its in baby and the levels, and its not toxic to either.

A few suggestions that helped me:
1) baby MUST be treated when you are being treated no matter if they show signs. My daughter did not EVER have the white spots in her mouth. She had cradle cap (yeast related), diaper rash, gas, colick etc. That's how we knew...plus the excruciating pain in my nipples when she was 1-2 weeks old.

2) DH must be treated, *especially*if its recurring and you are having
intercourse with him--but even if you aren't yet... just him touching baby can transfer it... he doesn't have to have any symptoms either. Athlete's foot, jock itch are caused by overgrowth of yeast---even major gassiness/farting by dh, I was told, is a sign









3) Someone mentioned that they think their pets had yeast and were contributing to it--YES! this doc and wife team said they had a family who was treated---even the DOG, :LOL because the dog had yeast so bad. They couldn't get rid of the yeast till they figured out that they needed to treat the dog. This is an extreme case but I guess it can happen!

4) I tried all of the natural remedies, GSE, anti-yeast pills, garlic, etc in the beginning months and they didn't work. Its only now that GSE pills help me "maintain" my system...

5) I did 4 rounds of Diflucan but it kept coming back









6) the ONLY thing that worked, and has worked and I resort to every time the yeast comes back (the best for curing my vaginal yeast) was something the lac consultant and pediatrician team suggested and do recommend to their mom and baby patients with yeast---*Dioxychlor.* Its made by American Biologics. Its prepared like a homeopathic remedy, however its a liquid form and you do not need a prescription. http://www.americanbiologics.com/abset.htm Click on Dioxychlor. Its ingredients are NaCL---sodium chloride---(salt). They have a PDF file about a study they did with Dioxychlor and yeast.

7) There is a specific dosage that you follow with this Dioxychlor.
Email/PM me if you want the doc/lac consultant contact info and/or the dosage I took for the Dioxychlor.

8) Jack Newman's book is also great for yeast...he has dosage info in there too about Diflucan I beleive and for his all-purpuse nipple ointment. I used kerrysherbals.com 's Miracle Salve Plus for my nipples and baby's diaper area. I loved it...worked really well in addition to the oral stuf we took.

Hugs to all! I hope you nip it in the bud!

OH! And to the post about recurrent vaginal infections and being more prone to breast yeast...i think so. I grew up on antibiotics it seems and every time I went to the gyn she'd say, Oh you have a vaginal yeast infection. I never knew...well sometimes I did but I lived with it...it was systemic at the point when I gave birth to dd. The pregnancy hormones and then your hormones changing after brith really screw up your body's flora and deifnitely kicked my yeast up a notch and gave me so many problems.

I have to say that some people get rid of it and its gone but for others its about daily maintence, IME. I haven't had breast issues since dd was 7 months old (she is 3 yrs now) but the vaginal yeast in me and in her and her rashes around her anus always keep me on my toes and so we have to be careful. I take GSE extract & acidolphilus now that I am pregnant with #2 as a maintenence, and dd takes primadolphilus for kids (chewable tablets of acidolphiulus) and it mostly keeps her yeast in check. Sometimes if we have too much dairy it will flare up and then I give her a drop of the Dioxychlor.

HTH! And sorry so Long!


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Jennifer: No need to apologize for the long post. I welcome your information.







Thanks for all your insights and experience. As you know, this is such a frustrating, annoying issue! After you've rinsed your 200th load of laundry in vinegar, the whole "positive attitude" thing can be hard to attain, KWIM?

This is one of the best thing I've read with new info in a long while. I will definitely try your suggestions and see where that leads!

-Sandra


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## lovemygirl (Feb 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jacksmama*
Jennifer: No need to apologize for the long post. I welcome your information.







Thanks for all your insights and experience. As you know, this is such a frustrating, annoying issue! After you've rinsed your 200th load of laundry in vinegar, the whole "positive attitude" thing can be hard to attain, KWIM?

Good luck to you! I know it completely SUCKS! I was SUCH a tortured mama in the beginning few weeks. I cried everyday for 4 weeks...no lie. It was just that difficult. My dd also did not want to suck all that much in the beginning and she didn't poop for 10 days, so not only were my breasts in excruciating pain when she latched, but I was going insane from the other stuff going on--plus having to do all of the crazy ass treatments. I just want to say that if I can get through it and continue with breastfeeding anyone can. Dd and I still enjoy our nursing relationship and I will tandem nurse (if she wants to) when baby #2 comes around in September.

Oh and you might want to switch to adding tea tree oil in the wash. For me that seemed easier to do then the vinegar. Probably about the same in cost but I got a huge bottle of tea tree oil from a wholesale supplies place that sells soap and candle making products. That bottle has lasted me over 2 years now. I throw a couple of drops in the laundry with the towels, sheets and underwear/bra washes---and of course the cloth diapers. I did forgot to mention that if you use cloth diapers you need to get the yeast out of the cloth dipes each and every toime you wash by either adding white distilled vinegar or tea tree oil to the rinse.
Here is a link...I think it was the 16 oz bottle---whichever is that brown bottle shown on the site is the one I have---you might have to email them and ask.
Tea Tree Oil It will get better! Hang in there!


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## Lexymama (Mar 14, 2004)

I appropriately named this thread when I started it back in March because apparently I will be dealing with this until my dd stops nursing!


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## Tupelo Honey (Mar 24, 2004)

I'm happy to say the Bactroban/Elacon combo did the trick for me. My nipples haven't had their daily full-layer-of-skin peel since I used it! I'm so sorry for those of you still dealing with this. Have you had an actual culture? there is a story in the book Fresh Milk by Fiona Giles about a woman with terrible, on-going thrush, and finally a yeast culture revealed that there was no yeast left, but all the treatments had caused a severe case of contact dermatitis!


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## missy-d (Aug 18, 2004)

I too have had a neverending nipple yeast infection. For about the last 3 weeks - I would like to thank you all for the suggestions as I will be trying some of them out.

Melissa


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## eksmom03 (Dec 31, 2003)

My DD is 18 months old now and those first 3 months, which are difficult in and of themselves, were only made worse by our dear friend yeast. I had NEVER had any yeast problems prior to Ella's birth and breastfeeding. The pain was horrendous and only made the calls of the free formula sitting in my kitchen cabinets even louder. BUT I made it through, thanks to the help of my angel lactation consultant. I took ProBiotics, 3 pills 3x/day (bought at GNC or at Whole Foods), made a paste with the powder from the caplets to put on my nipples as well as put on Ella's tongue after each feeding. (Note: make sure paste is dry on your nipples before putting on a shirt b/c it will stick to the shirt and then rip off when you get undressed--VERY PAINFUL!) In addition, I ate 10 yogurt pills each (I don't care for regular yogurt unless it has fruit and then it has high sugar--which only promotes yeast as well from what I understand). After one horrible event (the paste pulling a chunk out of my nipple), I decided to take the plunge and do 2 shots of white vinegar 3x a day. My understanding is that the vinegar gets in your system and takes care of the bad bacteria which promotes yeast and helps add to the good bacteria which fights it off. It was not the most tasty thing but it was well worth it. I have never had a reoccurance and at one time thought maybe it was coming back and I did the shots of vinegar for about 3 days again and there was no pain anymore. I knew of other mommies that were doing the Rx route and it kept coming back since the Rx creams don't actually address the problem which is the bacteria your body is producing. Also watching your pasta, dairy and sugar intake is important too, although I did not quit any of those for good. I did cut down.

That's my 2 cents. I know how horribly horrible it is and b/c of my experiences and troubles with bfing in those first few months, I'm now studying to be a lactation consultant to help other moms.

Good luck!

PS--I'm still nursing and loving it! I'm so glad that I stuck it out but I certainly have an understanding of why women decide to stop. If I hadn't had the support of my LC and other moms, I"d have been up the creek.


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