# Small living space: Mini Crib??



## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

_ONLY HELPFUL COMMENTS PLEASE_









our family is small, dh, me, dd who is 4 mo, and 2 kitties (who seem to have the run of the place ) and our living space is small too, about 600 sq feet. dd's "room" is what used to be a murphy bed closet. A traditional sized crib will just barely squeeze in there width wise, and will stick out 3" or so depth wise. Since she's so little, and will be for a very long time, we were thinking of getting a "mini crib" for her.

Pro: it's smaller, will be easier to wheel into our room when necessary, more cozy for her

cons: won't be easy to find bedding (but did find one site), can't find where to get a mattress (one comes with it), won't convert into toddler bed

this is what I've found:
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B000BXT07A

http://www.shop.com/op/~Davinci_Emil...-prod-16999560

http://www.netkidswear.com/minibabycrib.html

Any other suggestions?! Pro's and cons are welcomed and encouraged!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Why do you need a crib at all? Skip it all together and enjoy the extra space.









-Angela


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## Robin926 (Jun 25, 2005)

: We never even bought a crib because we cosleep and will until DS is ready for his own (probably twin size) bed.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
Why do you need a crib at all?
-Angela

We _want_ a crib for dd. It's what dh and I decided is best for our family.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

mdc is probably not the best place to get well-informed crib advice, as most of us have never had one. you would probably have better luck at babycenter.com


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Yeah, I can't imagine you'd get much good good advice on that here.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, I was hoping I would, as I've seen other mamas talk about cribs before...

I suppose anyone not interested in helping me out could just not reply.

to all readers:

no judgements please, and only helpful comments.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

um, actually i was trying to help.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

I see that you all were trying to help, thanks. I was hoping to get some useful info on this from this community...

maybe not


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Oooh, I love to shop!

I like the second one...prettier, nice handle and great color!

But, please, if you use a crib (I didn't, we cosleep), don't let your baby cry in there. No cying alone in the crib allowed.

All of these are rocking cribs...if the space is so small, won't they hit the wall? If baby sleeps away from you, how are you going to keep the kitties out of baby's bed?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

hhmmm .. .I like the first but it has pretty bedding which may be swaying me









I have never understood the need for a full sized crib. How long are people keeping thier kids in these things? My chidlren were out of thier crib by 12-18 months. with our last we had an oversized cradle (which I am thinking is about the same size as what you are looking at.) that she fit into until she was about a year and then went right to a futon. i don't remember the details (except for it was impossible to find bedding anywhere but babies r us). It looks like it was about 18 x 36, same as our changing table. If I think about it I will go up and measure for you. it is 3 floors up being used for storage. not fit for kids anymore







I think it looked like the one in this .

crib bedding is super easy to make. Do you sew at all. I would be happy to give you a little tutorial. If you don't sew at all I know someone who could make it custom for not too much money.

have you checked Ikea? they are the champs of small living spaces. I couldn't find anything on thier site though. You wold think they would be all over that.

as for a mattress, if you want something more substantial or more natrual than what it comes with I would check with a custom company. I saw a lot at babies r us. in several odd sizes.

and to the previous poster - every rocking crib/cradle I have seen has a lock out feature. we never used the rockers on ours, they are annoying and I htink sorta dangerous - but may be paranoid. and why do you assume she needs a warning to avoid CIO? I used cribs and co-slept with all of my chidlren (wouldn't leave them in bed unattended as they were all movers and shakers) and I have never let my child cry alone in a crib. lots of my friends have cribs/infant beds for whatever reason and none of themn wouldever consider CIO. There are lots of reasons to have a crib/co-sleeper/infant bed. and lots of ways to combine gentle attentive parenting and co-sleeping. owning one does not equal detatchment or CIO. generally I would rock mine to sleep and lay them down. they weren't going to fall on the floor, get stepped on or bounced on by sibblings. It also gave her a quiet little sanctuary in which to sleep. Quite a blessing in our home. i also know co-sleepers who do cio. It is just as easy to leave your baby in your bed screaming as it a crib. where your child sleeps has no bearing on how they get to sleep.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

We are wonderful loving APparents whose children don't CIO...and we use a *gasp* crib. I don't feel the least bit guily about it and certainly don't think you should either. Different things work for different people. and you can be a loving mom and not share a bed with your baby.

That said...I think I would just get a pack and play! They don't take up much space, and you can easily find sheets for them. They also are great for travel.

My kids slept in their pack n plays next to my bed for the first 5 or 6 months. They have a bassinet feature too.

My daughter could still sleep in it very comfortably when she was almost 2 and we would travel.

Both my kids moved to their own rooms at 6ish months and had a normal crib in there...they never cried and my 15 month old still nurses 3 or 4 times a night.

Good luck!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I was trying to be helpful







How about a crib mattress on the floor with some small barrier? That could work for awhile to come. I would not have been comfortable with my dd in a mini-crib size wise after 5 or 6 months.

-Angela


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

not being snarky, i swear...how do youknow your 15 month wants to nurse? And do you get up 3 or 4 times and keep putting the 15month back into his/her own bed?


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Where is she sleeping now?

We co-sleep but I would think that a "mini-crib" isn't going to last you very long, especially where she is already 4 months old. Seems like a waste of money IMO.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
and to the previous poster - every rocking crib/cradle I have seen has a lock out feature. we never used the rockers on ours, they are annoying and I htink sorta dangerous - but may be paranoid. and why do you assume she needs a warning to avoid CIO? I used cribs and co-slept with all of my chidlren (wouldn't leave them in bed unattended as they were all movers and shakers) and I have never let my child cry alone in a crib. lots of my friends have cribs/infant beds for whatever reason and none of themn wouldever consider CIO. There are lots of reasons to have a crib/co-sleeper/infant bed. and lots of ways to combine gentle attentive parenting and co-sleeping. owning one does not equal detatchment or CIO. generally I would rock mine to sleep and lay them down. they weren't going to fall on the floor, get stepped on or bounced on by sibblings. It also gave her a quiet little sanctuary in which to sleep. Quite a blessing in our home. i also know co-sleepers who do cio. It is just as easy to leave your baby in your bed screaming as it a crib. where your child sleeps has no bearing on how they get to sleep.

I do not wish to derail this thread because the poster is looking for information. I do believe we at MDC support and encourage cosleeping (wherever possible) and thi being a new poster, I felt compelled to advocate for gentle sleeping. I do not believe "it is just as easy to CIO in a shared bed as in a crib", that is my opinion, I have seen many parents use the crib as a way to "separate" from baby at night. I commend Abigal'smomSarah for breastfeeding all through the night with a baby in the crib, I just haven't seen much of that. In my experience it is easier to separate from the baby at night with the baby _physically_ separated through the night.

I truly hope this poster finds a comfortable sleeping arrangement for herself and the baby.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
I do not wish to derail this thread because the poster is looking for information. I do believe we at MDC support and encourage cosleeping (wherever possible) and thi being a new poster, I felt compelled to advocate for gentle sleeping. I do not believe "it is just as easy to CIO in a shared bed as in a crib", that is my opinion, I have seen many parents use the crib as a way to "separate" from baby at night. I commend Abigal'smomSarah for breastfeeding all through the night with a baby in the crib, I just haven't seen much of that. In my experience it is easier to separate from the baby at night with the baby _physically_ separated through the night.

I truly hope this poster finds a comfortable sleeping arrangement for herself and the baby.









:


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

I've seen and touched a number of mini-cribs but the biggest thing I noticed was that they seemed to be so shoddy, poorly made and unsafe (it freaks me out when you shake a crib and it seems like it's going to fall apart - mind you, many normal sized cribs do that, too) BUT the third one looks and sounds like it is probably a high quality product.

One thing to consider is that on the mini and portable cribs that I have seen, the mattresses were just made of 100% foam, which means that plenty of harmful dangerous chemicals are wafting up into your babies face. I don't know if there are any futon companies or natural baby mattress companies who would custom make a small sized mattress for you, but I'm guessing that might be pretty expensive.

We used cribs when our DC were young and when they were infants, and they also co-slept with us. I found the bassinet, the cradle and the crib to be extremely useful for naptimes. We also had cats and were more confident putting sleeping babies in cribs than onto our bed when we weren't in there with them. That said, one of our babies was a light sleeper and by 6 months, seemed bothered sleeping in between us, would always be waking up, yet when he was put in the crib next to us, he'd sleep happily. I did nurse throughout the night for both children (every two hours, for years! I was exhausted!), and I would immediately wake up when I heard my son wake, it would rarely if ever get to a cry before I got to him. I'm a light sleeper too. On the other hand, our daughter has still not left our bed (she had her moments) at almost 5. It's much easier to nurse through the night when baby is in the bed with you. Sometimes you don't even need to wake up, your baby feeds him/herself. That is so great.... And all that getting up even to go get my son just a couple or few feet away (never more than 10, often 1) really is much harder than co-sleeping while nursing.

You could always try getting a co-sleeper and put it right beside your bed at night. http://www.armsreach.com/ You could always move it into the murphy bed area during the day.









ETA: Oh look at that, a mini-crib Arms Reach cosleeper! http://www.armsreach.com/product_sleigh.asp


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## francesca'smom (May 24, 2005)

we had a small co-sleeper crib that attached to our bed. It was actually a pack-n-play with a special higher-up mattress holder. see: http://co-sleeper.babycatalog.com/co...t-liner-8133bs
I didn't have any trouble finding bedding for it, and I think it was about 40 X 28. So you may want to choose one that will use the standard size bedding for co-sleeper beds. I loved this co-sleeper arrangement because dd was close, but not in my bed, which I preferred due to space limitations.

ETA : I had my browser window open for a while, so missed the last post. The arms reach co sleeper is the one we had. It's hard to tell in the photos, but there is actually a little wall separating the crib from the bed. A little disappointing for me, I thought it would be flat all the way across. But it still worked out great if you want something attached to the bed. It would not work as a stand-alone crib, if I recall correctly, but again bedding was easily available for that size.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

:

I'm tempted to list all the ways I'm an incredible mother, but should I?! No.

There are aspects of AP that don't fit in with everyone's lifestyle. Co-sleeping is that aspect for us.

To answer a valid ?: our cats haven't gotten into her bassinet yet, so I'm not worried about the crib. Putting a mattress on the floor with a barrier would make me worry about the cats. Crying it out: I did mention we live in 600 sq feet, even if I did allow dd to CIO, we'd go insane!









Please just know that not all families subscribe to the same principles as you might, but if I'm a member for this board, there's a chance I'm a pretty damn good mom.

thanks to all of you for your advice!


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
Where is she sleeping now?

We co-sleep but I would think that a "mini-crib" isn't going to last you very long, especially where she is already 4 months old. Seems like a waste of money IMO.

Now she sleeps in a bassinet. Why do you think the mini crib won't last very long?
Thank you!


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

They had those mini cribs at bru. It might help you to see the dimensions in person. Those things are really very tiny. Depending on the height of your baby s/he might be hitting her body parts on the side of the crib before s/he's ready to sleep in a toddler bed.

Anyway, if you've seen them in person and like the size, I like the 2nd one. It's pretty.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

I did notice how small they are, which honestly didn't make me like it less, but like it more, since when dd does sleep with us, she's practically on my face. She certainly doesn't feel like she has to stretch out!! But I know a crib rail is _not_ her mommy









My main concern is that she will not be able to climb out til she is in her own bed, and ready for that.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I'd wait until she's a little older and go straight to a twin bed on the floor. You may buy a crib and realize you don't like having her away from you as much as you thought you would.


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## leximom (Jul 4, 2005)

Holy smokes! The thing that caught my eye were the prices







If I were in your position I would get a pack-n-play. I know they are unpopular here, but it's a heck of alot cheaper and it has the option to use it higher up for a fairly immobile baby or really low for a climber. I think the mini cribs (which I have never heard of up until this thread) look cute, but are not practical.

If you simply _must_ get one of these models I like the target one


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Some one asked how I know my baby wants to nurse...he wakes up and I go get him. Our rooms are 2 feet from eachother and I can hear every move he makes. I hear when he wakes because he says mama, or starts to babble. Yes, I go get him, nurse in bed (or sometimes in his room) and then put him back in his bed. Some nights he nurses 6 times, some nights 4, and some nights just once (but those are few and far between!).

I have fibromyalgia and have a very difficult time sleeping to begin with. Having my husband in bed with me was hard because he would move, touch me, make noises etc. We got a king bed and now he sleeps in the far other corner and I have the rest of the bed to myself, which helps. Having a baby touch me or be near me is disaterous for my sleep, and it is far better for me to get my baby to nurse him. This results in better quality sleep, which quite frankly allows me to move during the day...much better for the whole family!

We have a small blow up bed/sleeping bag next to our bed that many nights my daughter will come sleep on, and she is welcome to do that when ever she likes.

I know AP promotes shared sleep, and for many families that works wonderfully, but it is not the right choice for everyone. It makes me sad when posters feel the need to defend their choice and state why they are asking about something like a crib...

There is a big difference between CIO in a crib and sleeping in a crib when alseep and being taken out as soon as they are ready!


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbigailsMomSarah*
Some one asked how I know my baby wants to nurse...he wakes up and I go get him. Our rooms are 2 feet from eachother and I can hear every move he makes. I hear when he wakes because he says mama, or starts to babble. Yes, I go get him, nurse in bed (or sometimes in his room) and then put him back in his bed. Some nights he nurses 6 times, some nights 4, and some nights just once (but those are few and far between!).

That's exactly what I do. I hear dd as soon as she's up. Sometimes I lay in bed with her to nurse her, sometimes I sit in the rocker. If she's very needy she stays in bed for awhile.

[/QUOTE]I know AP promotes shared sleep, and for many families that works wonderfully, but it is not the right choice for everyone. It makes me sad when posters feel the need to defend their choice and state why they are asking about something like a crib...

There is a big difference between CIO in a crib and sleeping in a crib when alseep and being taken out as soon as they are ready![/QUOTE]

*AMEN AND THANK YOU!!! I couldn't agree more!!!*


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## Thystle (Feb 7, 2006)

I second the Arm's Reach cosleeper... it is the best of both worlds if you have space to fit it in next to your bed. You can find it in regular stores and not just the internet. Plus they have a good resale value on eBay!

Some people just need space.

Some people have health issues that make it hard or painful to cosleep.

Some people have spouses or SO's that would not be safe to cosleep with. VERY heavy sleepers and ones that like to roll alot and use people as pillows.

Some have SO's that are TERRIFIED of cosleeping, thinking they will somehow hurt the baby.

Some eventually just cannot sleep with being constantly touched or kicked.

And I say this as a cosleeper...
The world is not perfect and everyone can't be the same. Not cosleeping at this point in her daughter's life is not the end of the world. Things can change later on.

*Being a sane mom during the day will be more important if that is what it takes to make that happen!*

LOVE in the end is the most important thing!


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## rsps (Nov 20, 2001)

If you don't mind a foam mattress. You could just get a big peice of foam and cut to fit (from an upolstry supply store?)

And if the mattress that comes with it is good enough, then no problem.

As for bedding you don't need much. (espcially in a small space) one sheet on the crib and one or two spares are plenty, with a few blankets. (and a water proof pad or two. -- I would just cut a regular crib size one down to fit.)
BTW, we are 4 in 700 sq ft, so I know what it's like to deal with small spaces.

rebecca


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## Snowdrift (Oct 15, 2005)

As far as the bedding issue is concerned, what about just using a big towel (like bath-sheet sized) and tucking it in well? Plenty of very short pile velour ones designed for beach towels, soft and nice and absorbent even.

I'm making covers for the pad in my baby basket from towels I got for cheap--but if you don't sew, you could just tuck in.

I'm still pg tho and haven't tried it irl; it just seemed like a good idea.

Can I also just say i'm kinda jealous...we're in a trailer and out our options are co-sleep or have the baby forty feet away--across the main room with the bulk of the house between. To my mind not an acceptable arrangement until she can come get us if she needs us. So we're planning on cosleeping, but I wish we had a way to be close but not *that* close *all* the time. 600 sq. ft. must be pretty tight, but remember that in some ways it's a blessing!


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cynotgirl*
Now she sleeps in a bassinet. Why do you think the mini crib won't last very long?
Thank you!

Well they are really pretty small, not much bigger than the bassinet you are using now probably. Babies grow so fast that it may seem like she could use it for a long time but in reality you would probably only get a couple months out of it. Right now I'm sure she doesn't move much but soon she will be sitting up, rolling around all over, squirming when she sleeps and if the space is too small you are going to have issues with her constantly being squashed against the top or the sides I would think.


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## Mybabymommy (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cynotgirl*
Well, I was hoping I would, as I've seen other mamas talk about cribs before...

I suppose anyone not interested in helping me out could just not reply.

to all readers:

no judgements please, and only helpful comments.










Why not just get a foldable playpen? That way you can just put it away during the day?


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## Mybabymommy (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thystle*
I second the Arm's Reach cosleeper... it is the best of both worlds if you have space to fit it in next to your bed. You can find it in regular stores and not just the internet. Plus they have a good resale value on eBay!

Some people just need space.

Some people have health issues that make it hard or painful to cosleep.

Some people have spouses or SO's that would not be safe to cosleep with. VERY heavy sleepers and ones that like to roll alot and use people as pillows.

Some have SO's that are TERRIFIED of cosleeping, thinking they will somehow hurt the baby.

Some eventually just cannot sleep with being constantly touched or kicked.

And I say this as a cosleeper...
The world is not perfect and everyone can't be the same. Not cosleeping at this point in her daughter's life is not the end of the world. Things can change later on.

*Being a sane mom during the day will be more important if that is what it takes to make that happen!*

LOVE in the end is the most important thing!

















:

With my dd 14 months old and a cosleeping newborn, I moved dd to a "nest" on the floor beside our bed. That way she was right there, I could reach and touch her and she could find me to nurse at night if she wanted. That was the newborn was safe with me, dh was comfortable and Lori was happy!

Sarah







)


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

I have used a "mini-crib" they work just fine. It is very hard to find bedding for, so good luck with that. ds2 is 14 months and he still naps in one at my moms. he sleeps just as much there as he does at home.


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
mdc is probably not the best place to get well-informed crib advice, as most of us have never had one. you would probably have better luck at babycenter.com









Not all of us are exalted ap snobs btw. Most of us are humble folks, so I do say sorry for the reception you received.

I have a crib- oh no take away my ap snob club card!! It coverted into a tot bed when dd1 was 24 mos. She slept in the crib from 16 weeks on after she kept rolling around in the bassenet next to our bed. She did the same in her crib and now does it in her twin bed. She is welcome anytime she wants in our bed and always has been. Usually she does not like it- just like when she was a baby she said no to cosleeping! So after she doses, right before her active rolling around starts, we put her back in her bed.

Our dd2 is still in the nicu and will be for a while but we have a cosleeper mini for her. She will be there for a while and then we will see where she will sleep
after and go from there.

I cannot believe ikea would not have something since my bil found a great mini crib that they kept next to their bed (again small space to work w/)
and their dd slept in it for months. She could eventually climb out in in between them.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amys1st*
Not all of us are exalted ap snobs btw. Most of us are humble folks, so I do say sorry for the reception you received.

Yes, how dare anyone come to a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING website and advocate cosleeping over cage sleeping! Snobs, every one of you!


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
Yes, how dare anyone come to a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING website and advocate cosleeping over cage sleeping! Snobs, every one of you!

please don't be rude, and stick to the topic.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
Well they are really pretty small, not much bigger than the bassinet you are using now probably. Babies grow so fast that it may seem like she could use it for a long time but in reality you would probably only get a couple months out of it.

they are considerably bigger than bassinets. my dd fit in her cradle for a year/25-30pounds (the cradle was bigger than a bassinet - I had a bunch of sheets that regardless of what they said on the package prove that the cradle was far and away bigger







) at a year she was capable of getting in and out of a low bed herself. the mini-cribs look even bigger than the cradle. they sound like the perfect size to take them up to that point where they are capable of getting in and out of a toddler bed. regardless of how much you use it it just seems nice to have a quiet private place to let baby sleep peacefully if you need it. I think that would be hard in 600sq feet.

gees I can't believe how judgmentalthis thread has gotten. heaven fobid someone uses the wrong bed for whatever thier own reason are. I am still not sure why the controversy between leaving your baby on the couch to sleep vs the floor vs the swing vs the big bed vs a small crib in a quiet corner.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amys1st*
Not all of us are exalted ap snobs btw.


are you actually calling attachment parents nasty names, at a website dedicated to attachment parenting? see folks-when us oldies bemoan the current state of mdc, this would be a stunning example why.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cynotgirl*
please don't be rude, and stick to the topic.

Rude? If I recall, you got a little testy when others poibnted out that advice on cribs, "mini" or not,, may not be forthcoming on MDC. People gave you a variety of opinions, on your choices and on coslepping as an alternative.

A poster comes on and suggests those of us who advocated cosleeping as "exalted ap snobs"...huh. I didn't know cosleeping was now so radical.

my~hearts~light again reminded you where we are at, MDC. I hardly see that as rude, but REALITY.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

You know, if you want only support about your question, instead of a DISCUSSION on a DISCUSSION board, maybe start a tribe for crib sleeping babies and ask there. You asked a question and we are giving our own answers. You cannot dictate what we say.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
they are considerably bigger than bassinets.

Well they must come in different sizes - my mother has one at her house that she has dolls in, it was hers when she was a baby and it is quite small, about the size of a bassinet so I assumed this is what the OP was talking about. My mistake. I was trying to be helpful I'm not sure where your judgmental comments are coming from.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...eep/sleep.html

On topic.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amys1st*
Not all of us are exalted ap snobs btw. Most of us are humble folks, so I do say sorry for the reception you received.

I have a crib- oh no take away my ap snob club card!!

You need to calm down.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:

If she's very needy she stays in bed for awhile.
You seem to be missing the point. Babies are inherently very needy!
Support doesn't always come in the form of sugar coated BS. Who's supporting the babies left in wooden arms down the hall?


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Ok, I'll be on topic!

DS was also a crib sleeper, due to health issues and his general preference for having tons of space.
Community Playthings has some great cribs, solid maple, made by a co-operative in Georgia. Really, how much crunchier can you get?







http://www.communityplaythings.com/c...ribs/index.htm

Their cribs are 26X40" and incredibly sturdy (made for daycares) I don't know if they sell sheets for their cribs, but it never hurts to ask.

As for sheets, can you sew at all? Crib sheets are the simplest things on earth to make.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

A couple of quotes from the _Baby Book_ by Dr. Sears. "Our advice is to choose whatever sleeping arrangement works best for all members of the family. Don't feel pressured into a nighttime-parenting style that you don't believe in simply because your friends endorse it" and "No one sleeping arrangement works for all families all the time."

I'll never understand why some people on MDC can't just read a thread and move on if they don't have anything helpful to say. Jeez.

To the OP, I also suggest looking into a Pack-n-Play. They are smaller than traditional cribs but not so much the baby will outgrow it quickly.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
You know, if you want only support about your question, instead of a DISCUSSION on a DISCUSSION board, maybe start a tribe for crib sleeping babies and ask there. You asked a question and we are giving our own answers. You cannot dictate what we say.

Amen Kathryn! (See we can agree on some things


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbigailsMomSarah*
Some one asked how I know my baby wants to nurse...he wakes up and I go get him. Our rooms are 2 feet from eachother and I can hear every move he makes. I hear when he wakes because he says mama, or starts to babble. Yes, I go get him, nurse in bed (or sometimes in his room) and then put him back in his bed. Some nights he nurses 6 times, some nights 4, and some nights just once (but those are few and far between!).

I have fibromyalgia and have a very difficult time sleeping to begin with. Having my husband in bed with me was hard because he would move, touch me, make noises etc. We got a king bed and now he sleeps in the far other corner and I have the rest of the bed to myself, which helps. Having a baby touch me or be near me is disaterous for my sleep, and it is far better for me to get my baby to nurse him. This results in better quality sleep, which quite frankly allows me to move during the day...much better for the whole family!

We have a small blow up bed/sleeping bag next to our bed that many nights my daughter will come sleep on, and she is welcome to do that when ever she likes.

I know AP promotes shared sleep, and for many families that works wonderfully, but it is not the right choice for everyone. It makes me sad when posters feel the need to defend their choice and state why they are asking about something like a crib...

There is a big difference between CIO in a crib and sleeping in a crib when alseep and being taken out as soon as they are ready!

I would think the up and down all night would be very disruptive to one's sleep.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
are you actually calling attachment parents nasty names, at a website dedicated to attachment parenting? see folks-when us oldies bemoan the current state of mdc, this would be a stunning example why.

mama ganoush...i didn't take your comment as rude at all...I took it as you trying to help the mama find a place with more information, since its true "most" of us don't use cribs, therefor we woudlb\n't have much advice about which one is best...


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
You seem to be missing the point. Babies are inherently very needy!
Support doesn't always come in the form of sugar coated BS. Who's supporting the babies left in wooden arms down the hall?


----------



## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Amen Kathryn! (See we can agree on some things

















I guess there's always at least one topic to agree on.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I'll never understand why some people on MDC can't just read a thread and move on if they don't have anything helpful to say. Jeez.

.


I think mama ganoush was trying to be helpful by directing the op to a place where "more" people would have info on cribs...


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*







I guess there's always at least one topic to agree on.









More than one...I agreed with you on the diapering thread in q&s a while back! Lets be friends







I'm done with that other thread anyhow


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

hello kitty - I wasn't trying to be snippy - just pointing out that these are not all that small. the standard bassinet is very tiny and will only last a few months. the larger cradles and mini cribs are about half the size of a crib and will offer plenty of room up to about a year. i too thought they were about the same size until I tried to buy sheets for mine. much to my dissapointment there was quite a difference between the tiny bassinet sheets and my apparently large cradle. they didn't even come close to fitting. I ended up using changing table covers (*oh to the OP, if you are still bothering, that is something you might want to try. they were pretty much the same thing just different size and a bigger choice of fabrics. I could get coton terry sheets.*)


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
I think mama ganoush was trying to be helpful by directing the op to a place where "more" people would have info on cribs...

I doubt it. It just seems like more passive aggressive snark. This whole thread is a prime example of why AP has a bad reputation. Someone comes on asking a legitimate question and she gets told she should co-sleep, she gets reminded not to let her baby CIO (because, of course, anyone who uses a crib automatically does CIO, right?), gets told that her baby will be sleeping in a "cage," and told she should go to that bastion of all that is wrong with parenting today, Babycenter. Give me a break.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I doubt it. It just seems like more passive aggressive snark. This whole thread is a prime example of why AP has a bad reputation. Someone comes on asking a legitimate question and she gets told she should co-sleep, she gets reminded not to let her baby CIO (because, of course, anyone who uses a crib automatically does CIO, right?), and told she should go to that bastion of all that is wrong with parenting today, Babycenter. Give me a break.

No, I disagree..and I take people at their word...mamaganoush - where you being snarky? If I needed advice on something, I would go to where 90% of the people have used whatever it is I am looking for advice on, rather that go somewhere were 1% of people use it.

I wouldn't go to babycenter and ask for sling r ecommendations, and would be grateful if someone on babycenter directed me to mdc.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
I would think the up and down all night would be very disruptive to one's sleep.

*Nursing multiple times a night is disruptive to ones sleep* (If you can nurse while you sleep, more power to you. I have tried, I can't. Nursing is often uncomfortable for me and it is very difficult for me to nurse laying down).

*Waking to cuddle a 3 year old is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to pee is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to get a drink is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to change a diaper is disruptive to ones sleep.*

Having children is a 24 hour responsibility. Reguardless of where we sleep...my husband and I parent all day and all night, not just during waking hours.

It works best _for us_ if while we are actually sleeping, we are in our own beds. If a child was in my bed I would not sleep well (or at all) all ngiht. By getting the baby to nurse I wake to feed him, but then go back to sleep untill he needs me again. Many times my husband will go get him and bring him to me or will take him back. He literally nurses for 5 min or less and goes right back to sleep.

Any other questions?


----------



## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
hello kitty - I wasn't trying to be snippy - just pointing out that these are not all that small.

Sorry if I misunderstood you - your post had some comments about judgmentalism that I thought were directed my way since you had quoted me.

I didn't see anyone being snarky up until someone started bashing AP moms... which is quite frankly just bizarre on an AP board


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I doubt it.

i would appreciate you not speaking for me. this post had lots of views, but very few replies. the op is relatively new here, so i kindly suggested that this might not be the best place to get good advice on cribs.

and exactly where does ap have "a bad reputation"? among folks who think cio and spanking is just dandy? if that is the case, then in the immortal words of joan jett-i don't give a damn about my bad reputation.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
I wouldn't go to babycenter and ask for sling r ecommendations, and would be grateful if someone on babycenter directed me to mdc.


exactly.


----------



## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
if that is the case, then in the immortal words of joan jett-i don't give a damn about my bad reputation.









Sing it loud and sing it proud!!


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
and exactly where does ap have "a bad reputation"? among folks who think cio and spanking is just dandy? if that is the case, then in the immortal words of joan jett-i don't give a damn about my bad reputation.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
i would appreciate you not speaking for me. this post had lots of views, but very few replies. the op is relatively new here, so i kindly suggested that this might not be the best place to get good advice on cribs.
and exactly where does ap have "a bad reputation"? among folks who think cio and spanking is just dandy? if that is the case, then in the immortal words of joan jett-i don't give a damn about my bad reputation.

I'm not speaking for you. I found your comment (and the comments of others) to be snarky. Whether you meant it that way or not, I don't know. Just stating how I read it.

As for AP's bad reputation? Lots of people think AP parents are judgmental know-it-alls. And these are not people who spank or CIO or ff by choice. Just average parents who have been turned off AP because of threads like this or drive-by comments about bfing, etc.

And the comment about bashing AP moms? No one was bashing AP moms. They were criticizing snarky, judgmental moms.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

gee, exalted ap snobs sure sounded like a criticism of ap parents.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
gee, exalted ap snobs sure sounded like a criticism of ap parents.

Maybe exalted MDC snobs would have been a better choice?


----------



## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Actually, there was no need to call names, especially since it's against that little user agreement you signed.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amys1st*
Not all of us are exalted ap snobs btw. Most of us are humble folks, so I do say sorry for the reception you received.

I have a crib- oh no take away my ap snob club card!!

Dude - read it. Certainly sounds like bashing AP Moms to me. As does this:

Quote:

Lots of people think AP parents are judgmental know-it-alls. And these are not people who spank or CIO or ff by choice. Just average parents who have been turned off AP because of threads like this or drive-by comments about bfing, etc.
I'm like scratching my head trying to figure out how these comments are considered acceptable when suggesting that someone reconsider the use of a crib are not.


----------



## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

And I saw very few people being snarky other than yourself criticizing people and their perspectives.

Quote:

And the comment about bashing AP moms? No one was bashing AP moms. They were criticizing snarky, judgmental moms.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
Maybe exalted MDC snobs would have been a better choice?

if you dislike it here so much, and hold us in such obvious contempt, there's a simple solution.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

How is it acceptable when someone comes here to ask for suggestions about a crib to tell her that she shouldn't be putting her baby in a "cage" or letting dc CIO? She wasn't asking whether or not to co-sleep. She's made the decision she feels is best for her family and was just looking for suggestions on how to implement it. Why is it so hard on MDC to accept that there is more than one way of lovingly raising a child? She flat out says at the beginning of her post that she only wants helpful suggestions because, I'm guessing, she's been around MDC long enough to know that certain members will jump all over someone who has made different choices than they have.

It's a crib for crying out loud. She wasn't asking for suggestions on how to let her dc CIO. If someone doesn't have something to suggest regarding a CRIB then maybe they shouldn't have posted on this thread to begin with?


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

maybe you aren't Hall Monitor of the Internets and don't get to dictate what threads people choose to respond to, or how they choose to respond.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
if you dislike it here so much, and hold us in such obvious contempt, there's a simple solution.

And that is always the response when someone dares to suggest that maybe there should be less snark on MDC. No, I don't plan on going anywhere. There are enough people here who are capable of giving constructive advice support without the other garbage that I do get a lot from being here.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

She didn't say that at the beginning of her posts. She edited to ADD that after she didn't like what we were saying. Once again though, no one can dictate what we say and if it's "support only" unless they have their own tribe. I suggest forming one. Maybe call it "the non-exalted AP/MDC mom tribe" and make yourself feel at home?


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Ist of all, I've read the original post and No she didn't ask for support only. THAT was added after people made other noncrib related helpful thoughts.

Quote:

Pro's and cons are welcomed and encouraged!
Was in the ORIGINAL OP before editting.

2nd SUPPORT ONLY Posts aren't allowed anywhere but in the tribal area and spirituallity.

3rdly

This is MOTHERING.COM. THE Natural Family Living Site. Look at the banner, that's what it says. OF COURSE women (and men) on this board are going to advocate for the NATURAL way before a crib, especially since that's what a boatload of them have done.

Seriously, don't like all the NATURAL LIVING families here, there are other websites that might suit you better.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

I see the other ladies have said all this while I was posting. I guess I'll just be redundant.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki*
I see the other ladies have said all this while I was posting. I guess I'll just be redundant.


always appreciate your thoughts, redundant or not.


----------



## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

There is a big difference between suggesting there should be less snark and adding your own snarky insults.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
And that is always the response when someone dares to suggest that maybe there should be less snark on MDC.

yeah, if you repeatedly bash a community and its members, well it is no wonder you have been shown the door before.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki*
Ist of all, I've read the original post and No she didn't ask for support only. THAT was added after people made other noncrib related helpful thoughts.

I didn't read her OP before it was edited but isn't it sad that she had to add any such message?

Wow, you guys are really missing my point. Even Dr. Sears says that the family bed doesn't work for everyone. Why should someone who has made a decision about how her family is going to sleep have to put up with all the anti-crib comments? That is NOT being helpful.


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## BBerryBliss (Sep 20, 2004)

The family bed may not be for everyone. But don't go looking for support of non co-sleeping on a NFL AP website and expect people to welcome you with open arms and a pat on the back.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
yeah, if you repeatedly bash a community and its members, well it is no wonder you have been shown the door before.

How is suggesting that we try to be a little less judgmental of others' choices bashing MDC? As I said, there are lots of people on here that I learn a lot from. There are others, however, who could be a lot more effective advocates of AP if they would stop sitting in judgment of others and responding harshly when someone needs help.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Just have to jump in and be redundant too. I responded in what I thought was a helpful way - a lot of people never considered NOT having a crib. AND this is MDC, like it or not. There was no need for the OP or anyone else to be offended that people suggested not using a crib. In the OP there was no indication that a crib was a sure thing for them, just a question with a request for input.

-Angela


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I respectfully ask that people go back and READ THE THREAD! There were no snarky comments made and only people trying to give advice and then someone comes along and bashes AP Moms for apparently not being the first authority on crib information. The fact is this thread was fine and dandy until people started dictating what answers were appropriate. Give me a break.


----------



## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
How is suggesting that we try to be a little less judgmental of others' choices bashing MDC? As I said, there are lots of people on here that I learn a lot from. There are others, however, who could be a lot more effective advocates of AP if they would stop sitting in judgment of others and responding harshly when someone needs help.

Where do we draw the line? Is it only ok if _you_ say it is? Should we not be "judgmental" to spanking, CIO, formula feeding by choice, circumcising, etc.. parents? Why do _you_ get to dictate what _we_ think is appropriate to ask about on an AP site?


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I didn't read her OP before it was edited but isn't it sad that she had to add any such message?

Wow, you guys are really missing my point. Even Dr. Sears says that the family bed doesn't work for everyone. Why should someone who has made a decision about how her family is going to sleep have to put up with all the anti-crib comments? That is NOT being helpful.


well then, are mdc members required to be 'helpful' when people ask for advice on cio or spanking, cause they have decided that is what is best for their family? the very huge and sophomorically obvious point that you are missing is that MDC stands for something. At least it used to. And the people who threw the snark are the ones who clearly don't really support what mdc stands for. which begs the obvious question.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
There are others, however, who could be a lot more effective advocates of AP if they would stop sitting in judgment of others and responding harshly when someone needs help.


how is nicely telling someone, with a smile no less, that they might find better information at another website responding harshly?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
Where do we draw the line? Is it only ok if _you_ say it is? Should we not be "judgmental" to spanking, CIO, formula feeding by choice, circumcising, etc.. parents? Why do _you_ get to dictate what _we_ think is appropriate to ask about on an AP site?









: I love you.... sniff....







I was going to post something about this, but I couldn't get it down to a reasonable and moderately on topic bit....

so allow me to







:

-Angela


----------



## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

holy moly, I'm really sorry I started anything this disruptive!!

I do know that co-sleeping is an aspect of AP, and I guess I ignorantly thought it'd be okay to talk about a crib... since I've seen other threads about a crib, and disposable dipes, and formula feeding.

I think this should stop now, it's not healthy for anyone, and makes me sad and uncomfortable, and embarrased.

I'm sorry, and thank you all for your useful input and opintion.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
well then, are mdc members required to be 'helpful' when people ask for advice on cio or spanking, cause they have decided that is what is best for their family? the very huge and sophomorically obvious point that you are missing is that MDC stands for something. At least it used to. And the people who threw the snark are the ones who clearly don't really support what mdc stands for. which betgs the obvious question.

No, advice shouldn't be given on how to spank or CIO because those things are not AP. I think, though, rather than jump all over someone asking about those things it would be good to gentley tell them MDC doesn't advocate these things and why. How else would someone learn why these things are harmful.

As for crib sleeping, I included those quotes from Dr. Sears to show that cribs *can* be a part of AP/NFL. The assumption that cribs can't be AP is my main problem with some of the posts on this thread.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Are you cosleeping right now and looking to get a crib? I would suggest borrowing someones pack and play and seeing how well the non cosleeping thing will go over before investing a lot of money on a mini crib. We started out non co sleeping with DS2 as he wouldn't sleep in our bed, then once he turned about 4 months he wouldn't sleep anywhere else.


----------



## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
As for crib sleeping, I included those quotes from Dr. Sears to show that cribs *can* be a part of AP/NFL. The assumption that cribs can't be AP is my main problem with some of the posts on this thread.

Might I suggest starting a new thread about this topic then instead of coming into an existing thread and telling people what kind of advice you think is appropriate.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
Might I suggest starting a new thread about this topic then instead of coming into an existing thread and telling people what kind of advice you think is appropriate.

Might I suggest that when someone asks for advice about a crib, advice about CRIBS should be given rather than co-sleeping?


----------



## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
Might I suggest that when someone asks for advice about a crib, advice about CRIBS should be given rather than co-sleeping?

Ummm... I did.


----------



## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
Are you cosleeping right now and looking to get a crib? I would suggest borrowing someones pack and play and seeing how well the non cosleeping thing will go over before investing a lot of money on a mini crib. We started out non co sleeping with DS2 as he wouldn't sleep in our bed, then once he turned about 4 months he wouldn't sleep anywhere else.

that's a good idea, I think I will try that out...

right now we cosleep sometimes, she sleeps in her bed sometimes, it varies night by night. She is in bed with us some of the time every night, so trying something new out first is a good idea, especially since she's at an age when sleeping changes so much anyway. thanks!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

You know, call me crazy, but I think when mam g wants to be snarky, there would be no mistaking her comments as helpful, like most people did here.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
are you actually calling attachment parents nasty names, at a website dedicated to attachment parenting? see folks-when us oldies bemoan the current state of mdc, this would be a stunning example why.

It really irks me when someone dislikes another member's answer and blames it on their "newbie" status here - length of time as a member does not always equate to amount of knowledge to share!

And FWIW, Mama Ganoush, Amy's1st (hope I got that right!) has been a member for approximately 1 year longer than you so I guess that she would be an "oldie" too.


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

actually, i've been here alot longer, changed my name for security reasons. and, i said nothing about amy's length of time, nor did i call her a newbie. there have been several threads here lately bemoaning the current state of mdc, with alot of people not understanding what people were talking about, and i used her very nasty, and against the ua, comment as an example.


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
You know, call me crazy, but I think when mam g wants to be snarky, there would be no mistaking her comments as helpful, like most people did here.


really. diplomacy has never been my strong suit.


----------



## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
How is it acceptable when someone comes here to ask for suggestions about a crib to tell her that she shouldn't be putting her baby in a "cage" or letting dc CIO? She wasn't asking whether or not to co-sleep. She's made the decision she feels is best for her family and was just looking for suggestions on how to implement it. Why is it so hard on MDC to accept that there is more than one way of lovingly raising a child? She flat out says at the beginning of her post that she only wants helpful suggestions because, I'm guessing, she's been around MDC long enough to know that certain members will jump all over someone who has made different choices than they have.

It's a crib for crying out loud. She wasn't asking for suggestions on how to let her dc CIO. If someone doesn't have something to suggest regarding a CRIB then maybe they shouldn't have posted on this thread to begin with?

I feel the need to respond, as I admonished the op against CIO. As Pynki clarified, the op was slightly different from the edit. I felt the need to speak up because I feel strongly about cosleeping and although I was answering the op's question re: a mini crib, I did not want to be mistaken as "recommending" crib sleeping. That is different from judging her. The truth is, I do not know her, I don't see very many posts for cribs, sposies or which formula is best. Doesn't mean they aren't there, just that I don't see them.

I meant the op no ill will, but to recommend a crib and NOT caution against CIO seemed irresponsible to me. Just my opinion.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
I meant the op no ill will, but to recommend a crib and NOT caution against CIO seemed irresponsible to me. Just my opinion.

I'm sure you meant no ill will, but I think it's an awfully big leap from cribs to CIO. Lots of kids sleep in cribs without ever being subjected to CIO.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
really. diplomacy has never been my strong suit.


That is one of the many reasons why I love you.


----------



## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I'm sure you meant no ill will, but I think it's an awfully big leap from cribs to CIO. Lots of kids sleep in cribs without ever being subjected to CIO.

And many many many children are.


----------



## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
I feel the need to respond, as I admonished the op against CIO. As Pynki clarified, the op was slightly different from the edit. I felt the need to speak up because I feel strongly about cosleeping and although I was answering the op's question re: a mini crib, I did not want to be mistaken as "recommending" crib sleeping. That is different from judging her. The truth is, I do not know her, I don't see very many posts for cribs, sposies or which formula is best. Doesn't mean they aren't there, just that I don't see them.

I meant the op no ill will, but to recommend a crib and NOT caution against CIO seemed irresponsible to me. Just my opinion.

Just so you know, since I wrote the op, I didn't take offense to your statement about CIO. I don't mind hearing people's opinions, when they are presented politely and with respect. When I'm accused of putting my child in a "cage", that bugs me, because that is, in my opinion, passing judgement on my parenting. But for another mama to say, "I found co-sleeping to be best, I'd recommend that." is great! How else are we supposed to tell others about the aspects of AP that are important? (I know all apsects are important, and clearly, some more so than others to individuals.) I'm passionate about BF, so when I see someone fixing formula, I don't jump on thier case, being rude and argumentitive. That will always turn someone off, I think. But saying something kindly and with genuine love and concern might just teach somebody somethin'.... I learned about AP from my best friend, who just gave me some Mothering mags, some Dr. Sears books, and told me why she thought it was the right thing for her, and I've seen her as an example for her son's 3 years. She co-sleeps with her toddler, and when I told her we weren't co-sleeping, she asked why, I told her, and we moved on. But she knows me, knows I'm a kick ass momma, and I suppose none of you know me and some assume the worst... Rest assured, baby E never ever will live a moment of her life without passionate love and commitment from her father and I.... don't we all wish all babies had that!! (Living in the city makes it all too real, ya know!?)


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
And many many many children are.

But it's not a cause and effect relationship. To assume someone will do CIO because they use a crib is unfair.


----------



## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

And... I didn't post this in the night-time parenting/family bed catagory, because it's a SPACE IN MY HOME ISSUE, not where dd will sleep issue....


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
But it's not a cause and effect relationship. To assume someone will do CIO because they use a crib is unfair.


hmm, not sure about cribs and cio, but cio and early weaning/ff'ing actually does have a strong cause and effect relationship. studies show that people who cosleep have a better and longer breastfeeding relationship.


----------



## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I'm sure you meant no ill will, but I think it's an awfully big leap from cribs to CIO. Lots of kids sleep in cribs without ever being subjected to CIO.

I'm sorry, I really didn't think it was.


----------



## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
hmm, not sure about cribs and cio, but cio and early weaning/ff'ing actually does have a strong cause and effect relationship. studies show that people who cosleep have a better and longer breastfeeding relationship.

Studies also show that women with higher levels of education bf at a higher rate than those with less education. Would it be fair to lecture a mama on here about how she should bf when she mentions that she only has a high school education? No, it wouldn't because we shouldn't ASSUME that she won't.


----------



## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
But it's not a cause and effect relationship. To assume someone will do CIO because they use a crib is unfair.


True enough I suppose, but I'd say it's fairly impossible to CIO while co-sleeping. Most mainstream-ish sources are telling you to both put the baby in a crib (back to sleep) and leave said baby in own room with a monitor, and let them cry themselves to sleep. (No really it's good for them.)

Much harder if the baby is in the bed next to you.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Crib sleeping isn't AP and Dr. Sears damn sure isn't the end all of AP. He's a good middle of the road at best. There in nothing bonding about a crib which is just a nice frosty sugar coated word for cage. It's a baby cage. I have 2 of them in my own house btw. It's nice to have a safe confinement to sit a baby to play when you need to so something that you can't do in a sling. They can be useful for things like that but I'm honest enough with myself to call it what it is. You don't call a dog crate a puppy hotel, it's a cage/kennel.

I don't understand why it's all the sudden not alright to advocate for a child's best interest? If you don't want opinions, a message board is a really bad idea.

ETA: The OP has actually been more open and understanding then some of the other anti cosleeping posters on this thread.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cynotgirl*
that's a good idea, I think I will try that out...

right now we cosleep sometimes, she sleeps in her bed sometimes, it varies night by night. She is in bed with us some of the time every night, so trying something new out first is a good idea, especially since she's at an age when sleeping changes so much anyway. thanks!

I'm so glad that you are feeling this way!


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm not anti-co-sleeping.

I'm anti-forcing-something-that-just-ain't-right-for-you-and-your-family.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
It's a baby cage.I'm honest enough with myself to call it what it is.

it's the _*intention*_ behind the word.... not the word itself. Was your intention not to indicate I put my child into a box, leave her all alone to scream and kick, and to abstain my love from her, to not get up and nurse her, and to allow her to feel deserted in this contraption... isn't that what a cage is?


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I'm sorry but you don't get to decide what my intentions are.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

that's true, but you have to realize when someone will get out of using language.

Just like you don't get to decide what is best for my family, right?


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Mama G, your sig!


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

That's right. You didn't ask what was best for your child. You asked what crib to buy. And yet, your suprised that people aren't supportive?

ETA: I'm HERE because I strongly believe that what's natural is best.


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## cynotgirl (Jul 6, 2005)

I would love to go round and round all day long, but finally, I'm done working, done being tempted to see how far this would go, and now I get to spend my time with my baby, out of her crib.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
Crib sleeping isn't AP and Dr. Sears damn sure isn't the end all of AP. He's a good middle of the road at best.

And you aren't the end all of AP, either.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
ETA: The OP has actually been more open and understanding then some of the other anti cosleeping posters on this thread.

I haven't seen anyone on here who is anti-co-sleeping. All I see is people who think that there is more than one way of being a loving parent and at least one person (me) who is sick to death of the snark on MDC.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I'm not? Thank God you came along to tell me that.

For someone so sick of snark you sure do beg for it.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I'm not? Thank God you came along to tell me that.

For someone so sick of snark you sure do beg for it.

Yes, I'm sure to you having my own opinion means I'm just asking for it. What a healthy way of looking at things! Now, I'm off to have dinner with my dh and my attachment parented dd who slept in a crib.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
And you aren't the end all of AP, either.


Actually, she is
















to the snark comment.


----------



## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

whatever you need to believe.


----------



## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Actually, she is









Finally, someone who knows what's up!


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbigailsMomSarah*
*Nursing multiple times a night is disruptive to ones sleep* (If you can nurse while you sleep, more power to you. I have tried, I can't. Nursing is often uncomfortable for me and it is very difficult for me to nurse laying down).

*Waking to cuddle a 3 year old is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to pee is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to get a drink is disruptive to ones sleep*

*Waking to change a diaper is disruptive to ones sleep.*

Having children is a 24 hour responsibility. Reguardless of where we sleep...my husband and I parent all day and all night, not just during waking hours.

It works best _for us_ if while we are actually sleeping, we are in our own beds. If a child was in my bed I would not sleep well (or at all) all ngiht. By getting the baby to nurse I wake to feed him, but then go back to sleep untill he needs me again. Many times my husband will go get him and bring him to me or will take him back. He literally nurses for 5 min or less and goes right back to sleep.

Any other questions?

Yeah...why are you being so snotty????

Wow. LIKE I SAID BEFORE>>>>I was not being snarky...truly just curious. But gee, thanks, for kindly clearing things up for me on a discussion board...you know, where people come to discuss things.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

nevermind.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*

As for crib sleeping, I included those quotes from Dr. Sears to show that cribs *can* be a part of AP/NFL. The assumption that cribs can't be AP is my main problem with some of the posts on this thread.

there is nothing "natural" about cribs. So, maybe dr. sears has to be pc and say its okay to use cribs (although he never used them), but mothering is the magazine for natural family living. Cribs do not fit in there.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
Might I suggest that when someone asks for advice about a crib, advice about CRIBS should be given rather than co-sleeping?


Ok. Here's some advice about cribs: They are dangerous. They don't promote healthy mother/infant sleep cycles. They interfere with ecological breastfeeding. Some babies have died while in cribs.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I'm sure you meant no ill will, but I think it's an awfully big leap from cribs to CIO. Lots of kids sleep in cribs without ever being subjected to CIO.

Not that big of a leap, unfortunately. More babies cio in a crib than in a family bed.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Some babies have died while in cribs.

And some babies have died while co-sleeping. Does that mean we should condemn co-sleeping across the board? Of course not. There are safe and unsafe ways to co-sleep just as there are safe and unsafe ways to use a crib.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Not that big of a leap, unfortunately. More babies cio in a crib than in a family bed.

I disagree. You cannot assume anything about whether a child will be subjected to CIO by whether or not they sleep in a crib. Parents are capable of being responsive whether they are in the same bed or not. Whether they choose to be responsive or not, is another story.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I disagree. You cannot assume anything about whether a child will be subjected to CIO by whether or not they sleep in a crib. Parents are capable of being responsive whether they are in the same bed or not. Whether they choose to be responsive or not, is another story.

Yes, I can assume that. THe only people I have ever known to let their babies cio are those who put the babies in a crib.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
And some babies have died while co-sleeping. Does that mean we should condemn co-sleeping across the board? Of course not. There are safe and unsafe ways to co-sleep just as there are safe and unsafe ways to use a crib.

you said, how about some advice on cribs. Thats what I was giving. more babies die alone in cribs than they do in a family bed.


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## calicokatt (Mar 14, 2005)

tbarthauer~
You know, Dr. Sears, while a good introduction to ap, is actually considered rather mainstream here, which you should know, having been here for nearly a year.
You should also know, having been here for nearly a year, that a number of your statements are against the user agreement, not to mention just outright rude. It is quite clear that you can't resist the urge to get in an argument just now, so may I suggest that you do what you were planning to and log off for now, til you cool down?

Kathy


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calicokatt*
tbarthauer~
You know, Dr. Sears, while a good introduction to ap, is actually considered rather mainstream here, which you should know, having been here for nearly a year.
You should also know, having been here for nearly a year, that a number of your statements are against the user agreement, not to mention just outright rude. It is quite clear that you can't resist the urge to get in an argument just now, so may I suggest that you do what you were planning to and log off for now, til you cool down?

Kathy

I'm actually quite cool. I just really don't understand why someone asking for advice about a crib, in *Mindful Home Management*, is lectured about co-sleeping and told she will be using a "cage." That isn't helpful or productive. If she was going to the Family Bed forum and talking about how horrible co-sleeping is, then I would say it's appropriate to extol the virtues of co-sleeping. That's not what happened.

Yes, I realize some on here believe Dr. Sears is mainstream. I also know that a lot of folks find his advice very helpful (myself included) and he IS one of the authorities on AP. Whether you (general you) think he goes far enough is another thread.


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## knittingmomma (Jun 5, 2004)

With our fifth, we didn't use a crib, port-a-bed, or any type of containment system. She is almost two now, and still sleeping on our bed which is a mattress on the floor. She nurses to sleep still and we are fine with that. If we are out and about, she falls asleep in the Ergo carrier.

Warm wishes,
Tonya


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## raleigh_mom (Jan 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cynotgirl*
Now she sleeps in a bassinet. Why do you think the mini crib won't last very long?
Thank you!

I have to say, my first thought for the OP was "This will last such a short time!" Now, granted, I have big kids, but my bassinet lasted all of two months. Babies actually grow really fast - of course you and your DH may be very petite in which case your kids may stay small longer. And as soon as your child learns to sit up/pull up, this probaly won't be safe. So you may be looking at a big investment for something that will only last a couple months. I wouldn't recommend it. I'd spend your money on something that will last longer.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

When my son was an infant, I set up a crib in my bedroom and jokingly refered to it as "his cage." He slept in his crib sometimes (after falling asleep in my arms) and slept in my bed sometimes.

My parents bought a mini-crib to use at their house. He fit into it until he was over a year old- and my then 5yo DD used to climb in for fun- she couldnt' stretch out but she could fit inside fairly comfortably! We stopped using it when he was old enough to sit up because the crib she bought didn't have a side that could go up and down, and once we lowered the crib my Mom couldnt' get DS out easily.

I suppose it's nearly impossible to CIO without a crib, but it's certainly possible to be AP and use a crib part of the time. Just because a crib is being set up doesn't mean that the child will be left to cry or will never be allowed to snuggle next to mama in bed.


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Mama ganosh- I love your sense of humor- changed your title and all!







that is awesome.

Peace!


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## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

i'd love to claim credit, but it wasn't me.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I can't imagine what is further from attachment than spending 8-12 hours seperated from your baby.


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## Amys1st (Mar 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
i'd love to claim credit, but it wasn't me.


I guess it was me then!


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## momof2tadpoles0104 (Sep 26, 2004)

just pipping up to say that my youngest was/is a crib sleeper. when he was still nursing he slept in his crib right next to my bed. i did this becuz i had another child in my bed who was/is the king of moving around and i was afraid that the baby would get squished.

im a little surprized at some of you. crib sleeping doesnt not automaticly equal bad parenting or CIO. ive NEVER (ok twice and damnit it was that or hurt my kids so what would you have prefered??) cio, and consider myself to be very attached as are my kids.

my hearts light, your last comment was a little harsh no? i need to work therefor im awya from my kids for long periods of time. am i no longer AP my kids?

And to the OP i 2nd the idea of a playpen. WAY more versaitle, not alot of space when its up and can be taken down quickly. plus they are cheaper and easier to find "bedding" for.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
That isn't helpful or productive.

How exactly are your comments in this thread being helpful and productive?

It seems to me that overall the discussion has been quite helpful because in a previous post the OP she said she is putting off buying anything for now to see how things go. That's quite productive!


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I can't imagine what is further from attachment than spending 8-12 hours seperated from your baby.


Yeah that.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
crib sleeping doesnt not automaticly equal bad parenting or CIO. .


Nowhere in the thread does anyone say that crib sleeping automatically equals cio.


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## momof2tadpoles0104 (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Nowhere in the thread does anyone say that crib sleeping automatically equals cio.

actually it was. more than once.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Since the thread seems to have calmed down a little, I wanted to offer the OP a bit of small living space advice since I life in about the same amount of space (bit less, actually). One of the big things in making a small space work is stuff that does double duty. *If you want a crib,* I would really advice either something like a pack and play that can serve other purposes/be used for travel, or go ahead a do a full size crib even though it will stick out a bit. I would do a crib that has a a changing table attachment and converts to a toddler bed eventually. That way, you will get more use out of it, and you won't have to switch to a bigger crib earlier. A small crib is going to be outgrown sooner, is only going to serve one purpose, and is going to be more expensive in the long run with sheets, the need for a bigger crib/bed sooner, etc. in my opinion.

(I co-sleep with my daughter, but I found a folding playpen useful for things like camping/visiting in-laws who live on a boat where I needed a safe confined space for the baby while setting up the tent and such.)


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
actually it was. more than once.

please///show me exactly where....
you may have readi into what someone said, but there is nothing that says cribs=bad parenting.


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

When we lived in an 800 sq ft apartment, we just had the four kids... my daughter slept in a toddler bed in her brother's room, and her twin and younger brother slept with us.

We tried a crib route for our boy twin, but it just didn't work. He didn't sleep well, and, to be honest, neither did we. Our girl twin was much more independent and preferred sleeping by herself.

I can't see how adding a crib to your already crowded home will help. We still co sleep with our fifth child (almost two) and our fourth child (4 1/2). Our twins (five) finally have chosen to sleep separately from each other in their own rooms now.

I guess, in the end, it's important to look at what your child needs, rather than what the adults want. Children's _needs_ should come first. We have invited our children into our lives and they are honored and treasured parts of our family. Before mom, before dad, before anyone. Their needs are important. If the humongous needs for safety, security, trust, etc are met at an early age, they will be so much more independent and willing to be separate.

All of my children are independent children. My husband and I attribute that to cosleeping and breastfeeding. Their needs were met almost instantaneously when they were very young. Of course, as children get older, you can expect them to wait a bit (not long!) to have NEEDS met.

We haven't had a crib in years, but when we did, it was a laundry holder. I just hope you don't spend a lot of money on a very expensive laundry basket.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoodWillHunter*
When we lived in an 800 sq ft apartment, we just had the four kids... my daughter slept in a toddler bed in her brother's room, and her twin and younger brother slept with us.

We tried a crib route for our boy twin, but it just didn't work. He didn't sleep well, and, to be honest, neither did we. Our girl twin was much more independent and preferred sleeping by herself.

I can't see how adding a crib to your already crowded home will help. We still co sleep with our fifth child (almost two) and our fourth child (4 1/2). Our twins (five) finally have chosen to sleep separately from each other in their own rooms now.

I guess, in the end, it's important to look at what your child needs, rather than what the adults want. Children's _needs_ should come first. We have invited our children into our lives and they are honored and treasured parts of our family. Before mom, before dad, before anyone. Their needs are important. If the humongous needs for safety, security, trust, etc are met at an early age, they will be so much more independent and willing to be separate.

All of my children are independent children. My husband and I attribute that to cosleeping and breastfeeding. Their needs were met almost instantaneously when they were very young. Of course, as children get older, you can expect them to wait a bit (not long!) to have NEEDS met.

We haven't had a crib in years, but when we did, it was a laundry holder. I just hope you don't spend a lot of money on a very expensive laundry basket.

very nicely put, gwh


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

Why thank you! It took me almost 30 minutes to type that out... what with the kids and the puppy and and and....


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
I just really don't understand why someone asking for advice about a crib, in *Mindful Home Management*

The ideals of NFL and this site dont get suspended based on what forum you post into. Most people here read from many differnet forums and are going to respond with AP/NFL advice or ideals no matter what forum the thread is posted in. It would be irresponsible of members not to.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatchyMama*
The ideals of NFL and this site dont get suspended based on what forum you post into. Most people here read from many differnet forums and are going to respond with AP/NFL advice or ideals no matter what forum the thread is posted in. It would be irresponsible of members not to.

My point was that she wasn't looking for a debate on co-sleeping, just some info. on a piece of furniture, ie a crib.

Just because cribs don't fall into your (general you) definition of AP/NFL doesn't mean they don't fall into someone else's. To me, the essence of AP is listening to your baby and doing what is best for him/her. Some babies like a little more independence and sleep better on their own. Others need to be near mama to sleep well. If a baby sleeps better on his/her own, isn't it un-AP to force co-sleeping? AP is not some checklist. Each child is different and respecting those differences is very AP, IMO.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Jill.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

I got a portable bassinete it kind looks like a playpen but it not for playing.

Our youngest slept in till she was over a year.

It was right next to my side of the bed and she could crawl out and sleep with me at night if she needed.

My oldest slept in a crib onmce she moved out of our room. But with my second and third
I realzed that they are not needed at all. My baby (16 months) sleeps on the floor or our room. Its too cute as when she wants to nurse at night gets up and comes to me


----------



## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
my hearts light, your last comment was a little harsh no? i need to work therefor im awya from my kids for long periods of time. am i no longer AP my kids?


Jill, I think we can agree that anyone working out of the home, doing what they have to do in order to provide, is doing what is best for the entire family. Putting a 4 month old in a crib, alone is a choice and it does not further bonding or attachment. That doesn't mean that it's abusive either but IMO, it's not ideal for the child.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
crib sleeping doesnt not automaticly equal bad parenting or CIO.

ITA, some babies don't like cosleeping. I know DS2 absolutly would not sleep in my bed until he was older. I don't like the way some of the posts hint that if a parent chooses to use a crip she isn't practicing AP, I think following your child's cues and doing what is best for them is what AP is all about.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
My point was that she wasn't looking for a debate on co-sleeping, just some info. on a piece of furniture, ie a crib.

Just because cribs don't fall into your (general you) definition of AP/NFL doesn't mean they don't fall into someone else's. To me, the essence of AP is listening to your baby and doing what is best for him/her. Some babies like a little more independence and sleep better on their own. Others need to be near mama to sleep well. If a baby sleeps better on his/her own, isn't it un-AP to force co-sleeping? AP is not some checklist. Each child is different and respecting those differences is very AP, IMO.

Cribs are not part of natural family living. Yes, you (general) can choose to use one, but it doesn't make it more natural. And personally, I don't believe that any baby prefers to sleep alone. Maybe you (general) can talk yourself into believing that, but babies, biologically speaking, need to be near mom.


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## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbarthauer*
My point was that she wasn't looking for a debate on co-sleeping, just some info. on a piece of furniture, ie a crib.
.


REally, if someone asks about something that does not generally fall into the nfl/ap category, people here are going to offer alternatives. Sorry if you don't like it.


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## Spock (May 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Cribs are not part of natural family living. Yes, you (general) can choose to use one, but it doesn't make it more natural. And personally, I don't believe that any baby prefers to sleep alone. Maybe you (general) can talk yourself into believing that, but babies, biologically speaking, need to be near mom.

Then how do you explain babies who have fitful sleep and wake up tired and grumpy when they sleep in the family bed yet sleep soundly when placed in their own bed? Babies can also be near mom and not be in the same bed. You may not believe it, but there are lots of moms who can tell you otherwise, myself included. Until dd went in her own bed, neither of us got any sleep. Once she was in her own bed, she slept between feedings and so did I. I really don't think anyone would have benefitted from continuing co-sleeping.

Every child is different. What is unnatural about respecting those differences and parenting accordingly?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

a bed is a bed. would it have been Ok if she was asking about which co-sleeper to get? if she was asking about setting up a sleeping area on the floor? a hammock perhaps?

a crib is just a bed with saftey rails. any sort of bed/sleeping area can be misused. any can be used in a natrual baby friendly way.


----------



## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
any can be used in a natrual baby friendly way.

Perhaps gentle but not natural.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
I don't believe that any baby prefers to sleep alone. Maybe you (general) can talk yourself into believing that, but babies, biologically speaking, need to be near mom.

Maybe not prefer, but in my situation while trying to co sleep from the beginning, and ds1 was not like this at all, ds2 would wake up every single time I even moved vs when he slept in the crib he was able to actually get some sleep and would wake when hungry. Some babies just don't sleep well with other people in the bed with them.

It's not tricking myself into believing anything, the proof was there, in my bed, up all night, poor sleep quality vs in crib, slept soundly, better sleep.


----------



## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

That's why arms reach type cosleepers are so wonderful!


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## momof2tadpoles0104 (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
please///show me exactly where....
you may have readi into what someone said, but there is nothing that says cribs=bad parenting.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
But, please, if you use a crib (I didn't, we cosleep), don't let your baby cry in there. No cying alone in the crib allowed.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
I can't imagine what is further from attachment than spending 8-12 hours seperated from your baby.

know i know mom4tot and MHL fairly well but these comments are what i mean. Everyone automaticly assumes crib = CIO here. or crib = bad mama. it like the whole formula thing. Some moms cant BF and therefore need to use forumla. are they automtaicly bad moms? no. Am i letting my kids CIO becuz 1 sleeps in a crib? no. FTR my oldest refused to sleep in a crib much to my dismay, where as im GLAD my youngest did. becuz i would have woken up to a dead baby if the 3 of us coslept.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
Jill, I think we can agree that anyone working out of the home, doing what they have to do in order to provide, is doing what is best for the entire family. Putting a 4 month old in a crib, alone is a choice and it does not further bonding or attachment. That doesn't mean that it's abusive either but IMO, it's not ideal for the child.

i agree but also need to respectfully disagree. i have a stronger bond with my crib child than i do with my co sleeper. i agree its a choice, which may or may not be ideal but then again it depends on the situation. I think alot of people ASSume things around here. my crib sleeper didnt leave my room untill a few months ago, and even know hes in the same room as his big brother. he was never more than a few feet (like arms reach) at all times untill "the move" if he woke, he nursed, if he cried, he nursed. driving cut into his nursing time not my lack of cosleeping.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla*
ITA, some babies don't like cosleeping. I know DS2 absolutly would not sleep in my bed until he was older. *I don't like the way some of the posts hint that if a parent chooses to use a crip she isn't practicing AP, I think following your child's cues and doing what is best for them is what AP is all about.*

i think your my new friend mama. bold words are me.


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## momof2tadpoles0104 (Sep 26, 2004)

and FTR i havend responded becuz i spent the day with my kids. something i havent been able to do lately. But i guess im no longer AP now so my spending time with them was worthless right?


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Oh, Jill









Let me clarify my comment you quoted above (I actually did earlier), I didn't know this poster at all. As I said before, I wanted to be clear that even though I was helping her select a crib, I support cosleeping and I hoped she wouldn't consider CIO. I still don't believe that is such a leap with a new (to me) poster and the kinds of posts we have all seen re: cio.

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. That's all I can really say.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
Everyone automaticly assumes crib = CIO here. or crib = bad mama.

Jill, I tried to be clear that I do not feel that way. I really don't believe that. I just don't believe that it's *ideal*. I would never hurt your feelings intentionally but i'm sorry if I did.


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

I am Angie's (cynotgirl) best friend. I feel the need to speak up for Ang, I'll keep it short. Angie and her husband are both 6 ft. +...they have a queen sized bed in a room that is the size of a cal. king!! An arm's Reach co-sleeper won't work for them, as there is no place to put it, or any other sleeping system. The closet that she's speaking of is literally on the other side of her bedroom wall, which is about 5 steps from her bed. I assure you all, Angie and Ellie have a beautiful strong attachment to eachother, regardless of their sleeping arrangements. Ellie also LOVES her daddy, and has a strong attachment to him as well, regardless of their sleeping arrangement.
Angie and Mark made their decision with thought and consideration for their family as a whole, not what was best for one or the other. Angie is a WONDERFUL momma, and I'm not just saying that because she's my friend. Mothering Ellie is what she does best........and she's a phenominal clothing designer!








I have to say I'm very surprised by some of the comments in this thread. While most of them seem supportive, some of them are downright thoughtless and totally inconsiderate. I hope this isn't the over all climate of MDC. I think the gentleness of AP should reflect in how we speak and interact with all people, not just with our children.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

frenchie - you sound like a great friend and Angie is lucky to have you







I'm sure no one meant to imply that she is a bad momma, just expressing different beliefs when it comes to baby's sleeping arrangements.


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
frenchie - you sound like a great friend and Angie is lucky to have you







I'm sure no one meant to imply that she is a bad momma, just expressing different beliefs when it comes to baby's sleeping arrangements.

Thank you







I understand, however, beliefs can be expressed without being cendescending....and I'm not directing that at you. There is lots of helpful information in this thread, if one can weed through all of the arguements.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama ganoush*
hmm, not sure about cribs and cio, but cio and early weaning/ff'ing actually does have a strong cause and effect relationship. studies show that people who cosleep have a better and longer breastfeeding relationship.

You might want to tell that to my dd, who crib slept and nursed until four. Maybe I could have nursed her to ten if she she coslept consistently.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
You might want to tell that to my dd, who crib slept and nursed until four. Maybe I could have nursed her to ten if she she coslept consistently.

Would you like help relactating?


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

No thank you. But I would like her to sleep in the middle when she joins us, it hurts my back when I'm in the middle!


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
You might want to tell that to my dd, who crib slept and nursed until four. Maybe I could have nursed her to ten if she she coslept consistently.

So, crib sleeping is the ideal now?


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Wow. Just...wow.

Thread closed for review.


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