# Diapering Reorganization, please read



## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

For the past few months, spurred by your suggestions, we have been formulating a plan to better organize the Diapering forum and to suit all of your needs. We have taken input for those of you who wanted to give it and have decided that the best way to do this would be to have the main Diapering forum as a place to discuss general Diapering subjects. There is a new subforum that we have placed that has been initially titled "Stocking and Show Off." The Diapering Archives will be sifted through, the most helpful threads will be moved to the FAQ subforums and the rest will be merged into Diapering. All of the other subforums will remain as is at this time but we are hoping to make a couple of other useful changes in the coming months, including creating a central review forum for Diapering, Babywearing, and all other WAHM products that really do not have a place to be reviewed right now.

We would like to poll the users of this forum for thier suggestions in forum naming. We were thinking of changing Diapering to something like Diapering Basics or Diapering 101. We would also like input as to a final name for the new Stocking and Show Off forum. After we have received your request we will create a poll to select the names.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

nak

Diapering 101 for main forum
Diapering Chat for sub-forum

i don't think newbies would have any problem figuring out what to post where.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

So one forum would be for "diapering 101" threads and the other forum would be for stockings & show-offs? Where would all the other threads go?

I think it would be much better to have the main forum be for diapering chat (including stockings & show-offs & everything else that isn't "Diapering 101") and have a Diapering 101 sub-forum for newbie questions or whatever.


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

The sub forum will be for showing off and stocking tpye threads. Everything else will fall under the main forum.


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## Oh the Irony (Dec 14, 2003)

Yay!!









I like Diapering Basics

I'm not sure about the subforum, but am not wild about the term "show off". just has some negative connotations for me.


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## Marco Esquandolas (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wolfmama*
but am not wild about the term "show off". just has some negative connotations for me.

agreed. just call it fluffymail or whatever...


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trishshack*
The sub forum will be for showing off and stocking tpye threads. Everything else will fall under the main forum.

In that case I don't think the main forum should be called "diapering 101" or anything similar. I think it should just be "diapering chat" or something broad like that. I would also like to go on record as being opposed to segregating stocking threads.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

I don't like the term "show-off" either, but I wanted to say that those types of threads (along with the stocking threads) tend to take over the regular diaper chat, and then people's real problems & questions don't get answered or are ignored. So I think a separate sub-forum for the "show-off" threads & stockings is a good one.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I have to strongly disagree that questions aren't answered and problems are ignored. This is a very helpful board and I have seen SO many questions get answered and SO many problems get addressed or solved.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I am so happy about this- thanks for all the time and thought that went into the split, as well as for soliciting our suggestions and opinions!


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

Oh how cool! Thank you mods and thank you Cynthia for listening to our thoughts & concerns and for implementing a solution to benefit everyone.


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

Oops so excited that everything will be that much easier to find, that I forgot to say I like a name like *Diapering 101*, or *Everything You Wanted to Know About Diapers* for the larger forum. Maybe something like *She Shops. She Stalks. She Scores!* for the stocking and showing forum? :LOL


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## Undercover Hippie (Sep 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fullofgrace*
Oops so excited that everything will be that much easier to find, that I forgot to say I like a name like *Diapering 101*, or *Everything You Wanted to Know About Diapers* for the larger forum. Maybe something like *She Shops. She Stalks. She Scores!* for the stocking and showing forum? :LOL

:LOL I like those names!

I personally can not decide whether it is more organized to have all the categories, or just more confusing. I guess it depends on how you are using the board. For those who come for info, this will be a good move. For those who come just to hang out as a community, this will make it more difficult.


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

I liked everything the way it was


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## jaye_p (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was

















:

I agree w/Sustainer, questions ALWAYS get answered on this board, usually by many people. I don't see a problem with having a different show-off subforum, but could you please put the stockings back in the main diapering forum?


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Maybe it's just me that gets ignored then.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fullofgrace*
Oops so excited that everything will be that much easier to find, that I forgot to say I like a name like Diapering 101, or Everything You Wanted to Know About Diapers for the larger forum. Maybe something like She Shops. She Stalks. She Scores! for the stocking and showing forum? :LOL

I like these names!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

On the rare occasion that a post doesn't get replied to, it's almost always simply because no one who's on the board at the moment happens to have an answer to the question. If that happens, just wait until a later time when there are different people on the board, and bump your thread.

I have to say, though, I'm starting to feel like it's supposed to be our purpose in life or something to answer the questions. There seems to be an attitude that people have a "right" to have their questions answered.

We all answer questions all the time here and we are happy to do it, but I for one am afraid that I might start feeling a little less happy about it if I feel like I am *obligated* to do it, or like I'm being *forced* to focus on the questions.


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## kymholly (Jul 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teddybearmom*
I don't like the term "show-off" either, but I wanted to say that those types of threads (along with the stocking threads) tend to take over the regular diaper chat, and then people's real problems & questions don't get answered or are ignored. So I think a separate sub-forum for the "show-off" threads & stockings is a good one.









:


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
There seems to be an attitude that people have a "right" to have their questions answered.

I thought that was sort of the purpose of having a "discussion" board?









Newbies have questions, so unless you want the board to become a clique for experienced CD'ers only, questions are kind of a fact of life. And even the experienced CD'ers have occasional questions.

I'm a newbie, and I'm very thankful for all the questions that get posted and answered on this board. And if questions were to go unanswered, it would make the newbies feel like we're not wanted - we're not part of the clique. I would hate to see that happen on this board, because it's such a friendly and helpful board. And isn't the ultimate goal to have more babies successfully CD'd, regardless of if it's in a flat or a super duper hyena diaper?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
I might start feeling a little less happy about it if I feel like I am *obligated* to do it, or like I'm being *forced* to focus on the questions.

I haven't seen any mention of requiring people to answer questions in order to be allowed to post? If you don't want to answer questions, you don't have to. No one is forcing you to post in question threads. The types of posts you do shouldn't change due to the addition of subforums.


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## emmalala (Dec 3, 2001)

I like the idea of dividing the info!

I agree with PP about not giving any kind of name to the forum that is going to have a mix of info in it. If you name it Diapering 101 and someone who is not new to diapering asks a question, how will they know it is OK to post it there? Sometimes a quite experienced diaperer can have problems and questions, too.


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## My3babes (Jun 29, 2004)

I have to agree with Alice *yea thats right alice I am agreeing with ya :LOL*

I like it all together and I think the segregation is going to make it harder for the existing members. It is hard enough to keep up with one forum let alone TWO now.....


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Newbies have questions, so unless you want the board to become a clique for experienced CD'ers only, questions are kind of a fact of life. And even the experienced CD'ers have occasional questions.

I certainly never said that people shouldn't ask questions or that questions bother me (and I'm definitely aware that experienced CDers also ask questions, since I ask them myself on the board all the time). Please read my post(s) again. I love that people ask questions. I think it's great! And I have always been more than happy to answer them.

The only thing that's bothering me is this attitude that I'm seeing now that if a question isn't answered to the poster's satisfaction, that we (the diapering regulars) have somehow neglected our job.

Quote:

And if questions were to go unanswered, it would make the newbies feel like we're not wanted - we're not part of the clique.
As has been said, the questions do get answered here.

Quote:

I would hate to see that happen on this board, because it's such a friendly and helpful board.
I would hate to see it happen to, so I hope the attitude I'm seeing changes to a more appreciative one, so that we all continue to be just as happy about answering questions as we always have been.

Quote:

And isn't the ultimate goal to have more babies successfully CD'd
That certainly is one of the goals of this board, and I for one am of the opinion that the WAHM stocking threads do not hinder the accomplishment of that goal.

Quote:

regardless of if it's in a flat or a super duper hyena diaper?
It certainly doesn't matter to us whether someone uses a flat or a hyena diaper. Both choices are equally honored. Anyone who thinks differently should spend more time on the board.

Quote:

I haven't seen any mention of requiring people to answer questions in order to be allowed to post? If you don't want to answer questions, you don't have to. No one is forcing you to post in question threads. The types of posts you do shouldn't change due to the addition of subforums.
That's not what I meant. What I meant by being forced to focus on the question threads is that threads that are of interest to experienced regulars (as well as to many inexperineced newbies in my opinion) including stocking threads, are being moved off of the main board for the purpose of focusing more attention on the question threads. In my opinion, the question threads already get tons of attention.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
I...threads that are of interest to experienced regulars (as well as to many inexperineced newbies in my opinion) including stocking threads, are being moved off of the main board for the purpose of focusing more attention on the question threads. In my opinion, the question threads already get tons of attention.

And, I will probably start to hang out more on the Stocking page and less on the main Diapering board, since the Stocking page will have what interests me. So it could have the unintended effect of less questions being answered.

When I was a diapering newbie, if the boards had been divided up in the manner they will be now, I would have been so intimidated by the "Stocking and Show Off" board (so much lingo I don't understand, etc.) I probably would never ever go there, and I would miss out on so much neat stuff.

But, whatever. I hope since we now have a "Stocking" board, we can have a sticky that lists the regular stocking times of some of our WAHM's, especially the congos, since I can never remember them.


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## ShabbyChic (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was


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## fullofgrace (Nov 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
But, whatever. I hope since we now have a "Stocking" board, we can have a sticky that lists the regular stocking times of some of our WAHM's, especially the congos, since I can never remember them.

Oooh. Now that would be cool!


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was



















I don't have the time to go thru posts at 2 boards.. I liked the one stop shopping - I found out about stockings and saw beautiful new things and asked and answered questions... I'm sure I'll be posting a lot less if I have to do it on 2 boards....







:


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## momof2tadpoles0104 (Sep 26, 2004)

guess im weird but i like the idea of seperating. I for one have had a few posts go unanswered or 1 or 2 replies with "sorry cant help ya" only to see the rest of the board with "look what i just got" or "what should i buy with my $200 dh gave me"
When i was a newbie i had tons of questions and your right i probly wouldnt go into the "other" section because i didnt need to. IF i ever decided i wanted to show off or something im sure i would have figured it out though!
p.s. love the sticky idea!!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momof2tadpoles0104*
guess im weird but i like the idea of seperating. I for one have had a few posts go unanswered or 1 or 2 replies with "sorry cant help ya" only to see the rest of the board with "look what i just got" or "what should i buy with my $200 dh gave me"

You know sometimes we just genuinely don't know the answer to a question. The two people who posted that they couldn't help bumped the thread and gave others an opportunity to help if they could. But if someone asks a question that no one knows the answer to, what are we supposed to do?


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## bunnyhatanpaa (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*









I don't have the time to go thru posts at 2 boards.. I liked the one stop shopping - I found out about stockings and saw beautiful new things and asked and answered questions... I'm sure I'll be posting a lot less if I have to do it on 2 boards....







:


very well said. i didnt even know the other board was up until i read this thread!


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*









I don't have the time to go thru posts at 2 boards.. I liked the one stop shopping - I found out about stockings and saw beautiful new things and asked and answered questions... I'm sure I'll be posting a lot less if I have to do it on 2 boards....







:


I am on dial up now and can't imagine having to wait for more then one section to load. As it is I already post less then I used to.

I wonder if we could have a vote about the change.


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## navygirl (Jun 3, 2005)

That is the same thing that I asked the last time that this was bought up and I got told that it had already been decided and there was nothing to vote on. However, my point was then, as it is now, that the as the membership increases the dynamics of the board changes. So I agree and think there should be a vote, but I don't think that is going to happen.


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## MamaTT (Aug 29, 2003)

Quote:

Oops so excited that everything will be that much easier to find, that I forgot to say I like a name like Diapering 101, or Everything You Wanted to Know About Diapers for the larger forum. Maybe something like She Shops. She Stalks. She Scores! for the stocking and showing forum?
*IF* the board must be divided, I love these name ideas. That said, I think it would be for the best to leave it together.

PErsonally, when I come here, I come because it is fun to see what is new and hot in the diapering world, and then _while I am already here_, I try to answer some questions. But I do that as an afterthought, after the hyena topics have brought me here.

Just my experience.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was









Yeah, me too.


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## yaM yaM (Nov 9, 2003)

Great idea (the reorganization)!

I like fullofgrace's suggestions, as well as:

*Diapering Discourse* for the talk threads
and
*Diaper Exhibit* (or Diaper Display) for the 'show off' threads.








:


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## JasonsMom (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was









Me too.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

I like the idea of splitting the forum.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

I like the idea of splitting the forum.


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## BCmamaof6 (Sep 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaTT*
That said, I think it would be for the best to leave it together.

PErsonally, when I come here, I come because it is fun to see what is new and hot in the diapering world, and then _while I am already here_, I try to answer some questions. But I do that as an afterthought, after the hyena topics have brought me here.

Just my experience.









Exactly!!! (I'm on dial-up too! And it takes F O R E V E R to load each page!) I'd prefer it was left as it was.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I like the idea of splitting the forum. As an impoverished international mama, there's a lot of stuff that comes up on the diapering forum that I either can't afford, or can't get posted out to me- and while most of the time I can look and be happy for other people, there are times when I'd chew a (snappi) leg off for a credit card and a US postal address.
Surely, as splitting the forums will make it easier to find what you need (either the fluffymail stuff, or the how-to information) this would be a benefit to people on dial-up? Or am I missing something?


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack*
Surely, as splitting the forums will make it easier to find what you need (either the fluffymail stuff, or the how-to information) this would be a benefit to people on dial-up? Or am I missing something?

You're missing something. I'm not on dial-up but I remember those days cleary. Everytime a mama on dial-up clicks on a new _forum_ it takes forever to load. Individual threads don't usually take so long unless there are a zillion responses. I think what the mamas on dial-up are saying is that they'd prefer to visit a single forum that touches on a variety of topics, selecting for themselves what threads they'd like to read, rather than having to forum hop to view all the different subject matter.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

We don't get a vote. The change is happening whether we all agree to it or not. The main point is some people (and most NOT diapering regulars) disagree with how consumerist the diaper board is or has become. The brunt of many complaints and jokes and it all came to a head when a mama posted about receiving a prefold and snappi. Some hyenas thought they were being made fun of and it turned into a huge deal.

I for one am also against the split but am so thankful it isn't being done in the frugal/hyena manner that was previously suggested. If it was done in the way I would have left the board.

I will stick it out and see but personally I tend to ignore subforums. I don't think it takes a lot of effort to scan a page or two to see what is up or what's new. And I agree with Alice that questions are answered. I think most people think that if they ask a question it isn't truly answered unless they have 10 or so responses. I know I have though like that :LOL


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

I have some questions just so I understand it properly:

1 - a person has a question about diaper auctions or the TP or selling something in general. That goes in the main forum right?

2 - A person has a question about a specific diaper auction. That goes in stocking and show off forum?

3 - Instock questions go to the stocking and show off forum? Or are they considered Diapering 101 because it is technically generic if they ask for Very baby or fitteds or dyed prefolds and not one specific brand?

I know I will think of more :LOL


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## QueenSheba'sMom (Feb 4, 2003)

What about questions about the fit or absorbancy of diapers that may be hard to get a hold of?


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

I think generic questions about fit and absorbency go in the mail forum. And I see they are moving all the instock questions to the stocking showoff page. Which seems silly to me. Because if a newbie comes asking for info on where to buy stuff that goes into the stocking section? Even though it's a Diapering 101 question?

So all we can talk about here is: um.... washing? poop? Pee? Can we talk about fit? Or is that show-off /stocking info?


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
We don't get a vote. The change is happening whether we all agree to it or not.

The moderators have had at least a couple previous threads about this where they asked for input, and while it wasn't a "poll", I think they were reading the responses to get a general feel of what the board thought?

Anyway, I don't think you'll get a decision made that "we all agree to". I'm all for a split (and really would love to see the main forum removed and just have subforums). That would be easier for me. Obviously, keeping it one forum is easier for some other people. There's no way to make everyone happy, KWIM?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
The main point is some people (and most NOT diapering regulars) disagree with how consumerist the diaper board is or has become.

I wasn't around when this happened, and it's a shame that it did. I'm new here, and I don't mind consumerism - it's what keeps our economy going.







I just want to be able to read the threads that interest me and skip the ones that don't. For ME, that's easier if the forum is split. I have trouble keeping up if I only get to check once a day. This weekend, I was outside working with our goats all day, and when I came in, there were like 3 pages of stuff I hadn't read. There was no way I could go through all those threads, and probably half of them didn't apply to my diapering situation anyway. I'm sure I probably missed a topic or two that I wanted to read about.

Also, with the subject lines, it's often difficult to tell what the topic is. :/


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack*
I like the idea of splitting the forum. As an impoverished international mama, there's a lot of stuff that comes up on the diapering forum that I either can't afford, or can't get posted out to me- and while most of the time I can look and be happy for other people, there are times when I'd chew a (snappi) leg off for a credit card and a US postal address.

I'm a low income mama myself, and I usually can't actually buy anything mentioned on hyena threads, and all I can do is window shop and live through other people's purchases vicariously, which I enjoy. Even if I didn't enjoy it though, and even if my income were even lower than it is, I would consider it selfish and unfair to suggest that threads that are of interest to others should be moved simply because they don't apply to ME. All diapering threads should be allowed in the diapering forum.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
it all came to a head when a mama posted about receiving a prefold and snappi.

One of the things that bothers me the most about all this is that these changes are the result of a complete misinterpretation of what occurred on that thread. People claimed that simpler, less expensive diapers (and the mamas who use them) were being looked down upon, and that simply was not what happened at all.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
I for one am also against the split but am so thankful it isn't being done in the frugal/hyena manner that was previously suggested. If it was done in the way I would have left the board.

I think that it IS being split according to frugal vs. hyena. The stocking and showoff threads are the ones that are considered hyena threads. They are the threads that certain frugal diapering mamas (the ones who want the split) are bothered by, either because they're bitter about not being able to afford the diapers, or because they have a self-righteous attitude about "consumerism." So because of their negative attitudes, none of us get to enjoy such threads on the main diapering board. This is the impression I'm starting to get, and I'm getting more and more blunt about how I state it, because I'm getting more and more upset about this. If the main diapering forum gets renamed "diapering101" or "simple diapering" or anything along those lines, I *will* leave the board. And since this is pretty much the only board I come to anymore, it basically means I would be leaving MDC.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
And I agree with Alice that questions are answered. I think most people think that if they ask a question it isn't truly answered unless they have 10 or so responses. I know I have though like that

Questions DO get answered, which is why I'm starting to think that the whole "questions don't get answered because they are drowned out by all the stocking & showoff threads" thing is just a red herring, and that the real issue is that certain people are bothered by stocking and showoff threads for the reasons that I stated above. I'm going to start calling a spade a spade!







:


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## Oceanone (Oct 24, 2002)

Questions do get answered. I think so too. This split is supposed to elicit more question answering? When half the board are looking at another whole set of posts at any one time?

I'm willing to give it a go, if people really want it. I tend to agree with Alice though.

Also until a permanent name is found perhaps it could be renamed "Stocking and Showing" for a while. I agree that "showing off" has negative connotantions and most members are not posting pics etc to show off but to share and enjoy.


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## navygirl (Jun 3, 2005)

: to Alice's post. I have to agree. I think you hit the the nail on the head with that one. I wish that it didn't have to be that way but I can't see any other way around it but to leave it alone and we all know that, that is not going to happen, even if a lot of the regulars want it to stay the same.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
The moderators have had at least a couple previous threads about this where they asked for input, and while it wasn't a "poll", I think they were reading the responses to get a general feel of what the board thought?

I'm sorry but I don't think that they were listening because I read the posts and I kept reading over and over again how people want it to stay the same, except for a few that kept saying change it. It doesn't matter because it's been done and now nobody will be happy except for the people that wanted it split so that the hyena threads were off by themselves.


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## Marco Esquandolas (Feb 4, 2003)

Maybe the split will now encourage lurkers to c'mon out and post! I usually only see them post when they say they wanted a split. Now that it is split, they can post freely without fear of having posts burried or having to look at pics of gorgeous fluff!









ETA: I don't think that came out *quite* the way I wanted it to.







I wasn't trying to be a smart tail. I meant like not having to sift thru 10 threads of pics to get to a wash q or a rash q or whatever.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *navygirl*
I'm sorry but I don't think that they were listening because I read the posts and I kept reading over and over again how people want it to stay the same, except for a few that kept saying change it. It doesn't matter because it's been done and now nobody will be happy except for the people that wanted it split so that the hyena threads were off by themselves.

I think we need to keep in mind that this is a board run by a COMPANY. They have goals for their company which may or may not have anything to do with what we want.

Whenever a change is made, regardless of whether the owners of the board admit it, what's best for the company is always going to be taken into account. It's not only the goal of running a business, it's just human nature.

So, regardless of what *we* want, there could be business motivations for doing it this way. It would be very foolish of us not to take that into account. It would also be very foolish for us to think that we're going to be told that.









As for my part, I've seen things happen on MDC that annoy and anger me far worse than this particular change. I stay here because of several people that are here, and it will take more than splitting forums for me to leave at this point.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
If the main diapering forum gets renamed "diapering101" or "simple diapering" or anything along those lines, I *will* leave the board. And since this is pretty much the only board I come to anymore, it basically means I would be leaving MDC.

















Please don't leave!


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
I'm a low income mama myself, and I usually can't actually buy anything mentioned on hyena threads, and all I can do is window shop and live through other people's purchases vicariously, which I enjoy. Even if I didn't enjoy it though, and even if my income were even lower than it is, I would consider it selfish and unfair to suggest that threads that are of interest to others should be moved simply because they don't apply to ME. All diapering threads should be allowed in the diapering forum.

One of the things that bothers me the most about all this is that these changes are the result of a complete misinterpretation of what occurred on that thread. People claimed that simpler, less expensive diapers (and the mamas who use them) were being looked down upon, and that simply was not what happened at all.

I think that it IS being split according to frugal vs. hyena. The stocking and showoff threads are the ones that are considered hyena threads. They are the threads that certain frugal diapering mamas (the ones who want the split) are bothered by, either because they're bitter about not being able to afford the diapers, or because they have a self-righteous attitude about "consumerism." So because of their negative attitudes, none of us get to enjoy such threads on the main diapering board. This is the impression I'm starting to get, and I'm getting more and more blunt about how I state it, because I'm getting more and more upset about this. If the main diapering forum gets renamed "diapering101" or "simple diapering" or anything along those lines, I *will* leave the board. And since this is pretty much the only board I come to anymore, it basically means I would be leaving MDC.









Questions DO get answered, which is why I'm starting to think that the whole "questions don't get answered because they are drowned out by all the stocking & showoff threads" thing is just a red herring, and that the real issue is that certain people are bothered by stocking and showoff threads for the reasons that I stated above. I'm going to start calling a spade a spade!







:

I think you said it better than I could







I guess the whole hyena vs frugal thing, I am trying to look/think positively about it. But yeah.. the show-off threads, stocking threads, etc are indeed being shoved off in a sub forum because the consumerism bothers certain people.


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## bunnyhatanpaa (Jun 16, 2005)

i had to change the title of one of my threads saying "show off"

it bugged me so much,, so i just put "pics" . i dont want people to think i was showing off... i just wanted to share and thank the Wham who made the dipe by showing my pictures. thats all.

im new here and really liked having everything together,,,it made it nice to look at a thread that i may not have other wise. and i was able to learn alot by reading all different threads too. i do admit at first i just read. and never posted because it seems like we have a tight group of mamas...but as i started to post i found that people were very kind and anwered my questions and were friendly to me as well....i think the only time people didnt relpy to my post was if i listed something to share that wasnt hyena....but thats ok i guess. people are still very nice and friendly other wise.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
the show-off threads, stocking threads, etc are indeed being shoved off in a sub forum because the consumerism bothers certain people.

As I said on another thread, I'm as anti-overconsumerism as the next environmentalist, but to target cloth diaper users is so ridiculous! Why not target sposie users, who support places like Wal-Mart and chemical companies and the petroleum industry? Why target cloth users, who are supporting WAHMs and organic agriculture?? To say nothing of the fact that half the time a diapering item sells for an over-the-top price it's because it's a charity auction!


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
They are the threads that certain frugal diapering mamas (the ones who want the split) are bothered by, either because they're bitter about not being able to afford the diapers, or because they have a self-righteous attitude about "consumerism."

Um... not ALL of the ones who want the split are this type. I'm sure not. I have the money to buy hyena diapers if I really wanted to. I also think it's great that people buy them if they want them. I have no problem with consumerism.

I just prefer that any board be split into different topics so it's easier to navigate. So please don't lump all of the pro-splitters into a pile and label us all self-righteous.

I'd be happy to have the stocking/showing threads all be in the main forum and have the other stuff be in subforums (I hate scrolling down to see the main forum anyway). At least then I could easily find the stuff I want and not have to wade through the stuff I don't want. It's not that the stuff I don't want to read is bad. It's that it just doesn't apply to me, and I don't have all the time in the world to read every thread on the board. If I've read the threads that apply to me, I might go see some nice showing threads to see what someone has gotten. I think people should keep on posting all of these threads, and they're great threads. I just don't have time to read them all myself. That's all.

If all of MDC were one big forum, I wouldn't even be here. I don't have time or the inclination to read every single thread that gets posted. It's just too much. There are also MDC topics that I'm not interested in (because I'm really not all that crunchy). So I'm glad there are different subforums, so I can read about diapering and not have to read about some aspect of natural living that doesn't apply to me. THAT's the reason why I'm pro-split. Of course, whatever the moderators decide is what I'll live with.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

I agree with alice & kate .... and am completely confused as to what goes where now


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Um... not ALL of the ones who want the split are this type. I'm sure not. I have the money to buy hyena diapers if I really wanted to. I also think it's great that people buy them if they want them. I have no problem with consumerism.

I just prefer that any board be split into different topics so it's easier to navigate. So please don't lump all of the pro-splitters into a pile and label us all self-righteous.

I'd be happy to have the stocking/showing threads all be in the main forum and have the other stuff be in subforums (I hate scrolling down to see the main forum anyway). At least then I could easily find the stuff I want and not have to wade through the stuff I don't want. It's not that the stuff I don't want to read is bad. It's that it just doesn't apply to me, and I don't have all the time in the world to read every thread on the board. If I've read the threads that apply to me, I might go see some nice showing threads to see what someone has gotten. I think people should keep on posting all of these threads, and they're great threads. I just don't have time to read them all myself. That's all.

If all of MDC were one big forum, I wouldn't even be here. I don't have time or the inclination to read every single thread that gets posted. It's just too much. There are also MDC topics that I'm not interested in (because I'm really not all that crunchy). So I'm glad there are different subforums, so I can read about diapering and not have to read about some aspect of natural living that doesn't apply to me. THAT's the reason why I'm pro-split. Of course, whatever the moderators decide is what I'll live with.









I agree that not all moms are bothered by the commercialism. I think the split would be better & easier to navigate through. The Diapering board moves pretty fast, and lots can get lost in the shuffle.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

I don't know anything about a certain thread. Speaking for myself, I'm glad about the split because I just wasn't interested in the stocking/showing threads - and there were/are a LOT of them. It'll be great not to have to wade through them all to get to the threads I'm more interested in. I don't see what the big deal is, I guess. The board was clearly being used for 2 different purposes, it makes sense to split it. * shrug*

It seems to me some people here are struggling with the change. That's cool, I just hope this thread doesn't degenerate into an 'us vs them' war.

As for 'regular' posters being less likely to respond to questions - nice implied threat here - well, I have a feeling other posters will take their place. I also disagree with the inference that new posters are always new to cding. I might not have posted here much, but I've been cding for 15 months. I can offer advice. I guess







:

I've also received great advice here. I am grateful for that. THANK YOU!!!


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I just prefer that any board be split into different topics so it's easier to navigate. So please don't lump all of the pro-splitters into a pile and label us all self-righteous.

I'd be happy to have the stocking/showing threads all be in the main forum and have the other stuff be in subforums (I hate scrolling down to see the main forum anyway). At least then I could easily find the stuff I want and not have to wade through the stuff I don't want. It's not that the stuff I don't want to read is bad. It's that it just doesn't apply to me, and I don't have all the time in the world to read every thread on the board.

If all of MDC were one big forum, I wouldn't even be here. I don't have time or the inclination to read every single thread that gets posted. It's just too much. There are also MDC topics that I'm not interested in (because I'm really not all that crunchy). So I'm glad there are different subforums, so I can read about diapering and not have to read about some aspect of natural living that doesn't apply to me. THAT's the reason why I'm pro-split. Of course, whatever the moderators decide is what I'll live with.









I should have just quoted you and said "yeah that!" So yeah. YEAH THAT!


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

I know I personally am wondering where this overabundace of stocking/show off/consumeristic threads are. Over the last 3 pages of the main forum there are only 6 moved threads... and only like 15 threads total in the stocking forum that has been open since 09/02


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tapioca*
I'm glad about the split because I just wasn't interested in the stocking/showing threads - and there were/are a LOT of them. It'll be great not to have to wade through them all to get to the threads I'm more interested in. I don't see what the big deal is, I guess. The board was clearly being used for 2 different purposes, it makes sense to split it. * shrug*

Obviously it makes sense to you to split it, since you personally weren't interested in the threads that are being moved. Most of us, though, didn't perceive the board as being used for 2 separate purposes. We are interested in talking about diapers: whether they're being stocked, bought/sold, shown, used, advocated, whatever. I doubt that most of us click on every single thread. We click on the ones that interest us. But I don't go around saying that all the threads that don't interest me should be taken away so that I don't have to wade through them.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tapioca*
As for 'regular' posters being less likely to respond to questions - nice implied threat here

It was not a threat. I meant exactly what I said, no more, no less: my fear is that if we are upset by what is being done, we might not be as happy about answering questions. We simply won't be able to help the way we feel. Also, some people have mentioned that they might hang out only in the stocking/showing forum, and will not be available to answer questions for that reason. Obviously, if I'm so upset that I leave the board, I will not be available to answer questions.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tapioca*
The board was clearly being used for 2 different purposes, it makes sense to split it. * shrug*

AND

Quote:

It seems to me some people here are struggling with the change. That's cool, I just hope this thread doesn't degenerate into an 'us vs them' war.
You are wise, grasshopper. This sums up my sentiments exactly. When I first came to MDC I hung out on the diapering boards a LOT, but the show-off and $200 ebay auction stuff got more and more prolific, and I felt less and less comfortable and welcomed.

Personally, I think you nailed it with the "two purposes" thing, and I feel the split will meet everyone's needs. Change is hard, but I am sure we will all adapt.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

But see, that means that "hyenas" are tucked away in a corner so no one can see us. I hate these impliations that those of use who are against the split are crazy consumerist evil-doers who spend our DH's money friviously and ONLY shop the newest diapers while bragging how cool we are.

Comments like that make me think Alice is right on. That it really is an "us" vs "them" instead of letting us all get along like we did before.

If you aren' interested in stockings or show-offs what are you interested in? Flat shopping and prefold shopping have to go into the show off forum too right?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
But see, that means that "hyenas" are tucked away in a corner so no one can see us.

I guess I just don't get this. I don't see the people who are trying to get the diaper porn sites shut down complaining that they are being stuck out of the way, or the diaper sewers, or the EC folk. Why is this different? Why do you feel it's so important that this stuff be part of the main forum? Is it just because that's the way it's always been, or is there another reason? Because I don't get it, and, believe it or not, I would like to understand.

Quote:

Comments like that make me think Alice is right on. That it really is an "us" vs "them" instead of letting us all get along like we did before.
I don't know what to say to this- no where has anyone said anything remotely like this

Quote:

I hate these impliations that those of use who are against the split are crazy consumerist evil-doers who spend our DH's money friviously and ONLY shop the newest diapers while bragging how cool we are.
I hear you saying that you are feeling targeted, but, as you stated below, the "new rules" apply equally to everyone, so what's the big deal?

Quote:

If you aren' interested in stockings or show-offs what are you interested in? Flat shopping and prefold shopping have to go into the show off forum too right?
I don't use flats or prefolds actually. I think this is great- if I want to look for a good deal on a dipe, or who has my preferred diaper in stock (which, if you really want to know, are Lucy's Hope Chest fitteds, Absorbitalls, and Luke's Drawers, and I like mama-made covers or the Re-Use-Ems) it will now be much easier to find that info in one place. If I am having a wicking problem, or looking for a nighttime diapering solution, or want an opinion on the best fitted, I can post them in one forum.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
When I first came to MDC I hung out on the diapering boards a LOT, but the show-off and $200 ebay auction stuff got more and more prolific, and I felt less and less comfortable and welcomed.

Whether you understand it or not, this change is making some people feel just as you did, uncomfortable and unwelcome. I think it's pretty easy for you to say that the split will meet everyone's needs since it's a change that you're in favor of.

I don't lump together all of those who want the split. I see differences among you but I do think that there is an undercurrent of self-righteousness among _some_ of those advocating change, a sense that those people who choose to make all of their diapers or use only prefolds and flats or do things in a more "frugal" way are somehow better. You may not see it or feel it but that doesn't mean it's not there.

I do see that some people want the split because they believe it will be easier to wade through the massive amount of information that gets posted in the diapering forum. I just simply disagree with that notion and that's it. I don't believe that it's ever been difficult to find what I'm interested in reading about and I think it's pretty ludicrous to believe that moving only two types of threads into a subforum is really going to cut down on the number of posts and the amount of information that people will have to sift through in order to find what they're looking for.

I also don't like the idea because I think it's yet another opportunity for the mods to start moving stuff around. Don't get me wrong. I think there is a real need for moderators. That said, MDC is the only online community that I belong to where the moderators "intervene" on such a regular basis.

When I posted several months ago asking if there were other CDing mama's in the Twin Cities who wanted to hang out over coffee, my thread was moved to the "Finding Your Tribe" section of the board. A few good things came out of that for me but regardless I never saw any real difference between my thread and the "diaper party" threads that I see regularly in the diapering forum and the move irked me. Also, recently there've been a number of threads moved to the TP. One mama was offering up a soaker or pair of longies that she'd knit herself and wasn't going to be able to use. She wasn't selling them, she was offering them to anyone who wanted them. By moving the thread to the TP, the mod who did so made it impossible for anyone without 60 days and 50 posts to take that mama up on her offer. I know that the user agreement states that it's against the rules to question moderators but when things like this are done, I _do_ question them regardless of whether I do so "out loud" or in print. I dislike that the changes being made will create another reason for this kind of shuffling and micromanaging to occur.


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
I hate these impliations that those of use who are against the split are crazy consumerist evil-doers who spend our DH's money friviously and ONLY shop the newest diapers while bragging how cool we are.

The only people I've seen imply this is you yourselves? I've said again and again that consumerism is GOOD (I think Walmart is good too though - :LOL ). Separating a topic just means that that topic is an important enough part of the board to have a special place for it!

Maybe instead of thinking of yourself as being tucked away in a corner, you should think of yourself as being glorified enough to have your own special subforum? I think this is all a perception problem. Maybe some people in the past have said nasty things about you, but I haven't seen any posts in THIS thread even implying that there's anything wrong with hyena shopping. Did I miss something? And as annettemarie mentions, the EC folk, the diaper sewers, and others have their own subforums - not because they're being tucked away somewhere, but because the topics are important enough to be in their own special place. I read the diaper sewing forum myself, and am glad it's a separate forum because I know that I can go there for specific diaper sewing help. I also know that people who aren't interested in sewing their own diapers don't have to read all the diaper sewing threads (and there aren't alot of those either... I think there's probably been more stocking/showing threads in the last few days than there have been in the sewing forum).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
If you aren' interested in stockings or show-offs what are you interested in? Flat shopping and prefold shopping have to go into the show off forum too right?

Sure! Honestly, when I see "show off" (although I agree that that's a bit of a negative connotation... there needs to be a better name for displaying recently purchased fluff), I think of showing the new diaper you scored, whether it be the hardest to get diaper in the world, or a common diaper that everyone has. It doesn't matter. It's just showing your fluff. Stocking probably wouldn't apply to flats and prefolds just because they're usually in-stock everywhere. And I'm not sure if the new forum is supposed to be just talking about stocking or if it's talking about all shopping? But I think if the forum name/description gets clarified correctly, it can be done in a way that it will be easily understood, IMO.

I can certainly understand why some people don't want to split the forum, like the dial-up concerns and such. And that's ok. We can't all agree on everything! Let's just try to keep a good perspective though. I don't think pro-splitters are out to get the hyenas (honestly, hyenas and hyena-related threads don't even factor into my opinion of having different subforums). I think most of the pro-splitters I've seen post have just wanted it for organizational purposes.


----------



## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
I do see that some people want the split because they believe it will be easier to wade through the massive amount of information that gets posted in the diapering forum. I just simply disagree with that notion and that's it.

And I agree to disagree on that.







I have had trouble finding things at times, usually if I am not able to check the board all day, when I come back to 3+ pages of stuff.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
I think it's pretty ludicrous to believe that moving only two types of threads into a subforum is really going to cut down on the number of posts

I agree with this. I think the last thread on this had some suggestions of multiple subforums (which is what I would like to see). One of the new subforums hasn't been posted to yet, but then again, the moderators haven't really said that things have to be posted there either.









I'm pro-splitting of the forum in general, NOT pro-splitting just the hyena stuff from the non-hyena. Let me get that on the record.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
That said, MDC is the only online community that I belong to where the moderators "intervene" on such a regular basis.

I'm on some lists that are much more heavily moderated than this! I actually have rarely seen moderation in action on this board. But I've only been here about 6 weeks.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
A few good things came out of that for me but regardless I never saw any real difference between my thread and the "diaper party" threads that I see regularly in the diapering forum and the move irked me.

I agree that either both should stay or both should go. Perhaps the moderators just missed the diaper party threads? I don't know. As a moderator myself on some e-mail lists, I know that sometimes things get overlooked, especially in such a large forum. And humans are only human. Perhaps when you see a diaper party thread, you should report the post to the moderator to let them know it should be moved? There's a "report this" icon on the left side of a post... I assume that that can be used to report that a thread is off topic for a forum?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
By moving the thread to the TP, the mod who did so made it impossible for anyone without 60 days and 50 posts to take that mama up on her offer.

This one is probably a gray area - does offering for free belong on the TP or not? I don't know. I think the TP access restrictions are harmful to the TP in general, since new CD'ers building a stash to use right now or lurkers who read but don't post often can't make use of it. I also see why the rules are in place, and I don't really have a good recommendation to fix the problem, KWIM? I still have 11 days before I can access it, and now my stash is built. Oh well.


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## momof2monkeys (Nov 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I liked everything the way it was









Me too! This segregation saddens me.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
But I don't go around saying that all the threads that don't interest me should be taken away so that I don't have to wade through them.

I never said that. I did say that I agreed with the split for that reason, but I didn't agitate for the change to happen. But it's happening, and it makes sense to me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
It was not a threat. I meant exactly what I said, no more, no less: my fear is that if we are upset by what is being done, we might not be as happy about answering questions. We simply won't be able to help the way we feel. Also, some people have mentioned that they might hang out only in the stocking/showing forum, and will not be available to answer questions for that reason. Obviously, if I'm so upset that I leave the board, I will not be available to answer questions.

This seems passive aggressive to me. And btw, who is this 'we' you speak of? I see people answering questions right now who don't seem particularly upset.

Otherwise, I agree with annettemarie. I'm seeing a lot of defensiveness here, and I don't understand why.


----------



## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
AND

You are wise, grasshopper. This sums up my sentiments exactly. When I first came to MDC I hung out on the diapering boards a LOT, but the show-off and $200 ebay auction stuff got more and more prolific, and I felt less and less comfortable and welcomed.

Personally, I think you nailed it with the "two purposes" thing, and I feel the split will meet everyone's needs. Change is hard, but I am sure we will all adapt.









If I could use smilies, I would say *wink* he he


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tapioca*
This seems passive aggressive to me.

Again, you're assigning meaning to my words that is not there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tapioca*
And btw, who is this 'we' you speak of? I see people answering questions right now who don't seem particularly upset.

I'm one of them. The only place I've expressed my upset feelings so far is on this thread.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
Whether you understand it or not, this change is making some people feel just as you did, uncomfortable and unwelcome. I think it's pretty easy for you to say that the split will meet everyone's needs since it's a change that you're in favor of.

So what I am hearing (and I am not trying to be a smart alec, just sincerely trying to understand) is that by splitting the forum, you feel unwelcome, because you feel like a certain type of cloth diapering mama is being shooed away from the general public? If this is what you are saying I just don't see that since, as someone else pointed out, mamas showing off their simple stash also need to go to the new forum. To me, it's more like sorting the "fluff" (pun intended) from the serious questions.

Quote:

I don't lump together all of those who want the split. I see differences among you but I do think that there is an undercurrent of self-righteousness among _some_ of those advocating change, a sense that those people who choose to make all of their diapers or use only prefolds and flats or do things in a more "frugal" way are somehow better. You may not see it or feel it but that doesn't mean it's not there.
Honestly, I don't see that. The only people I see making that claim are the ones against the split.

Quote:

I also don't like the idea because I think it's yet another opportunity for the mods to start moving stuff around. Don't get me wrong. I think there is a real need for moderators. That said, MDC is the only online community that I belong to where the moderators "intervene" on such a regular basis.
OK, this cracks me up. Believe it or not, the mods are not sitting around looking for opportunities to move things. I appreciate all the time these volunteer mamas put into the often thankless job of keeping the board organized and safe.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
The only people I've seen imply this is you yourselves?

A lot of the threads have been deleted b/c they got nasty, but here and here are two of the more recent ones.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
A lot of the threads have been deleted b/c they got nasty, but here and here are two of the more recent ones.

Keeping in mind, of course, that the first linked thread refers to an incident where a number of senior member mamas were referred to as "trolls" and worse when one of them posted a picture of a new prefold and snappi as a score.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

I know--I read the thread before it was deleted. Just trying to answer the questions of some people who are wondering what some of the complaints are about.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
I know--I read the thread before it was deleted. Just trying to answer the questions of some people who are wondering what some of the complaints are about.

Oh, I know. I guess my point was that tempers were running hot and there were a LOT of hurt feelings on that thread all around.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
So what I am hearing (and I am not trying to be a smart alec, just sincerely trying to understand) is that by splitting the forum, you feel unwelcome, because you feel like a certain type of cloth diapering mama is being shooed away from the general public? If this is what you are saying I just don't see that since, as someone else pointed out, mamas showing off their simple stash also need to go to the new forum. To me, it's more like sorting the "fluff" (pun intended) from the serious questions.

Well, that may be what you're hearing but that's not what _I_ said. Go back and read what you quoted from my post. I simply said, whether you understood it or not, there are some mamas here who feel alienated by the spilt. I didn't include myself in that group nor did I try to explain why they felt that way. I think you've got the gist of their argument and I've gotta say your dismisal of it is pretty, I don't know, offensive? cold? insensitive? If I read you right, your discomfort with "show off and $200 auction stuff" somehow takes precedence. Why?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Honestly, I don't see that. The only people I see making that claim are the ones against the split.

Again, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I've seen it and felt it and I've never even paid big bucks for either of my kids' fluff.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
OK, this cracks me up. Believe it or not, the mods are not sitting around looking for opportunities to move things. I appreciate all the time these volunteer mamas put into the often thankless job of keeping the board organized and safe.

Holy condescending, Bat Man! I appreciate that we have people willing to volunteer their time to moderate these boards. Believe it or not, I know that it's a time consuming and often thankless endeavor. And while I think that much of the work they do is under appreciated and very good, I also think that some of it is unnecessary. Since I'm not in favor of splitting the forum, at least in the way described, I tend to think of the moderating involved in doing it as unnecessary. I also see it as an opportunity for bad moderating decisions. You have every right to disagree. However, it'd be nice if you didn't address me like was clueless and ill informed.


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## My3babes (Jun 29, 2004)

I guess right now it seems to *me* you are taking all the "fun" CD'ing topics and moving them into a forum that newbies may not know to visit....

Whether posters/CDers buy expensive diapers or cheap diapers, seeing a fellow CD'ers post their excitement or enthusiasm over receiving/finding/scoring fluff is EXCITING!

If other newbies are anything like me the "show off", "fluffymail", "stocking" threads are what got me excited about CDing.. It wasnt the "diapering 101" discussions about how you wash them, how to get rid of a rash, etc. that drew me in.... although they were necessary too.

Either way, I will adapt as many of us will but I didnt think it was broke, hence didnt know it needed a fixin'


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
A lot of the threads have been deleted b/c they got nasty, but here and here are two of the more recent ones.

Thanks, Jennisee! Scanning those threads, I still don't think that most people are making the implications that Sustainer was talking about. I'm sure there are some that think that, but you'll always have bad apples, right? I'm one that doesn't care how much you spend on a diaper. If you want to spend $200 on a diaper, then you're either helping a WAHM stay home with her children or you're helping a charity that the WAHM is auctioning for. Either way, it's all good.

I just like the idea of splitting into multiple forums, not just hyena vs. frugal or whatever. And both of those threads had alot of people that were pro-splitting into multiple subforums, and many expressed that they didn't want it to be hyena vs. non-hyena/frugal, but they did want subforums in general.

So again, I think we all need to step back and get a new perspective on things. No one is trying to target anyone or get rid of anyone. We're all trying to make the forum easier to navigate. Unfortunately, what's easy for one person isn't necessarily easy for another. For some, it's easier to have everything in one big forum, and for others, it's easier to have it in multiple subforums. I just don't like seeing the negative attitude of some towards those who are pro-split, especially calling us "self-righteous", etc. There's no need for that, period. I don't think anything bad about those who are against the split. Why are some (and it's just a few!) thinking bad about those who are for it?


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
And I agree to disagree on that.







I have had trouble finding things at times, usually if I am not able to check the board all day, when I come back to 3+ pages of stuff.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I agree with this. I think the last thread on this had some suggestions of multiple subforums (which is what I would like to see). One of the new subforums hasn't been posted to yet, but then again, the moderators haven't really said that things have to be posted there either.









I'm pro-splitting of the forum in general, NOT pro-splitting just the hyena stuff from the non-hyena. Let me get that on the record.









After reading and participating in several of the threads regarding a reorganiztion of the Diapering forum I do see the merit in _some_ of the arguements that have been made. I'm not in favor of splitting the main forum in the way that has been described but I might be in favor of a simplification of the diaper forum so that the subforums that existed were pared down and better utilized.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I'm on some lists that are much more heavily moderated than this! I actually have rarely seen moderation in action on this board. But I've only been here about 6 weeks.

Okay. I mispoke. I've been on boards that are more heavily moderated too. It's not that I think these boards are over moderated. It's that I think there are more incidents of what I consider strange and/or unecessary moderation and that this split will provide more opportunity for that kind of strangeness.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I agree that either both should stay or both should go. Perhaps the moderators just missed the diaper party threads?

I don't think that was it. It think some sort of distinction was made--one I neither saw nor agreed with.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
This one is probably a gray area - does offering for free belong on the TP or not? I don't know. I think the TP access restrictions are harmful to the TP in general, since new CD'ers building a stash to use right now or lurkers who read but don't post often can't make use of it. I also see why the rules are in place, and I don't really have a good recommendation to fix the problem, KWIM? I still have 11 days before I can access it, and now my stash is built. Oh well.

On this, we agree. I think this particular move that I referred to was a bad call but I do see the answer was neither black nor white. I do think it tended more toward black though. Perhaps it was charcoal.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *My3babes*
I guess right now it seems to *me* you are taking all the "fun" CD'ing topics and moving them into a forum that newbies may not know to visit....

Whether posters/CDers buy expensive diapers or cheap diapers, seeing a fellow CD'ers post their excitement or enthusiasm over receiving/finding/scoring fluff is EXCITING!

If other newbies are anything like me the "show off", "fluffymail", "stocking" threads are what got me excited about CDing.. It wasnt the "diapering 101" discussions about how you wash them, how to get rid of a rash, etc. that drew me in.... although they were necessary too.

Either way, I will adapt as many of us will but I didnt think it was broke, hence didnt know it needed a fixin'









:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Keeping in mind, of course, that the first linked thread refers to an incident where a number of senior member mamas were referred to as "trolls" and worse when one of them posted a picture of a new prefold and snappi as a score.

As I said before, that is NOT what happened. Someone posted a picture of a white prefold and said things like "Check out this incredible dipe -- I can't believe I got it -- you won't believe how amazing it is..." and so on and so forth. And then the next few posters followed suit, saying things like "WOW, those are really RARE! I've never seen one quite like it..." I don't believe any of these first few posters were people who generally post in the diapering forum. Then someone asked what was rare about the diaper, and one of the original posters responded by posting an 'irked' smilie and saying that something didn't have to be rare to be nice. Then ONE person who understandably thought that the purpose of the thread was to mock hyenas, referred to the first few posters as trolls from TAO.

As I said before, anyone who spends any kind of time in the diapering forum should know that prefolds and prefold users are not looked down upon at all. People talk about how much they love their prefolds all the time and we all celebrate their love for their diapers. Many people here have stashes that are half hyena fitteds and half prefolds. I have never seen anyone put down a simple system.


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

Who's idea was this anyway? More and more I think it sucks and I don't know why it couldn't be voted on. I was offline for a month. Did I miss something that led up to this?


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
I'm not in favor of splitting the main forum in the way that has been described but I would be in favor of a simplification of the diaper forum so that the subforums that existed were pared down and better utilized.

I definitely think that would be a good idea. I really think the biggest problem with the main forum vs. subforums is that people either go to the main forum and ignore the subforums or they go to the subforums and ignore the main forum. I honestly think that it'd be easier if it were either one main forum with no subforums (although that'd be huge), or if it were just subforums with no main forums (essentially, what is currently the "main forum" would be a subforum). But it doesn't look like the mods are planning to do that, so oh well.









And I really really really hate that I have to scroll down to see the main forum. That's my whole thing against the main forum. I don't like to scroll. :LOL

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
I don't think that was it. It think some sort of distinction was made--one I neither saw nor agreed with.

Is there a mechanism for discussing where a distinction is made when it comes to moderating stuff like this? I don't mean telling a mod that moving a thread was wrong (that's obviously against rules), but just getting clarification on what makes one thread on topic and another off topic? And possibly suggesting the modification of that distinction where it makes sense (again, not pointing at the mod and saying anything bad about their decision, but just making constructive criticism on how things could be improved in the future)?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
Perhaps it was charcoal.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I just don't like seeing the negative attitude of some towards those who are pro-split, especially calling us "self-righteous", etc. There's no need for that, period. I don't think anything bad about those who are against the split. Why are some (and it's just a few!) thinking bad about those who are for it?

As I've said in previous posts to this thread, I've felt a self-righteous attitude coming from _some_ of the people who are pro-split. Not all. Some. Even though it may be coming from a relatively small number of people, it's a strongly negative vibe and difficult to ignor.


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## ShabbyChic (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
Who's idea was this anyway? More and more I think it sucks and I don't know why it couldn't be voted on. I was offline for a month. Did I miss something that led up to this?

I have been here and this is news to me as of this thread.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

no offense boscopup --- as i really feel you have valid reasons for wanting the split. But you havent been here that long.... there is quite a bit of "history" of righteous people putting down mamas for spending money frivilously (in their opinion) on diapers. Most of the threads however get deleted....But the negative undertone that Alice and others are talking about is around and has been for a while now. I think you are just lucky enough that is hasnt been brought up lately. :LOL

And FWIW .... I dont spend big money on diapers, I make my own, but I still see it









ETA - my coment about you not being here long isnt to discredit your opinion or anything like that... as I said you have valid reasons for liking it. It was just to point out that there is more history to it that may not be obvious to anyone who has joined in the last 5/6 months, kwim?


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
I've been on boards that are more heavily moderated too. It's not that I think these boards are over moderated. It's that I think there are more incidents of what I consider strange and/or unecessary moderation and that this split will provide more opportunity for that kind of strangeness.

I have personally not been on any other boards that are this heavily moderated at all. This board has quite a heavy hand. That isn't the moderators' fault... I'm sure they are getting instructions from TPTB on how closely they need to handle/monitor things.

But, anytime you have someone moderating so much, there are going to be some missed calls. Just like a referee... a referee has to essentially micromanage, say, a basketball game. Because the ref is just standing there making all of these decisions, some calls are going to be missed/blown.

ANYhow... currently it appears that "show off" and "stocking" threads are simply being relegated to the subforum, which doesn't have a lot of activity (and if those are the only threads that it's for, I can't see it changing). So it looks like it may just end up being a dead subforum, like some of the other ones. Only now we can't just post a pic of your stash in the main diapering forum like we used to.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
there is quite a bit of "history" of righteous people putting down mamas for spending money frivilously (in their opinion) on diapers.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. I've not posted much in the 2+ years I've been a member but I've read quite a bit. That sentiment exists.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Thanks, Jennisee! Scanning those threads, I still don't think that most people are making the implications that Sustainer was talking about.

You went to this thread and you still don't think that the agenda is to banish the hyenas? Everyone who is reading this thread right now, please click on the above thread and judge for yourselves. I want everyone to know what is really going on here!


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
Who's idea was this anyway? More and more I think it sucks and I don't know why it couldn't be voted on. I was offline for a month. Did I miss something that led up to this?

There was a thread late at night that got very nasty and was deleted. I don't want to go into details and dredge up hurt feelings, but if you're interested, feel free to PM me. Then there was the first thread I linked to. Then there was the second thread I linked to. If anything else happened, I either missed it, or my late-night brain has temporarily forgotten it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
ANYhow... currently it appears that "show off" and "stocking" threads are simply being relegated to the subforum, which doesn't have a lot of activity (and if those are the only threads that it's for, I can't see it changing). So it looks like it may just end up being a dead subforum, like some of the other ones. Only now we can't just post a pic of your stash in the main diapering forum like we used to.

Honestly, I think that was the whole point.


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## Oceanone (Oct 24, 2002)

Alice, I remember that thread. It was very insulting and it felt disappointing to be made fun of on my own home ground so to speak. The mama who started it was a cder I respected too. I was very surprised. I have never and I have never seen simple diapering/ prefolds etc put down in this forum at all. The prejudice all runs the other way. I think that's why people are taking the change as a judgement call to an extent.

However, if people are staying away from the diapering forum because of stocking and showing threads then that's a shame. I hope they all jump on the new abbreviated forum, the more the merrier.

My immediate thought re moderaters is that this is an awful lot of extra work for them. But their time and efforts must be considered worth this change.

I'm happy to give it a whirl, will continue to answer questions and still compliment the cute babes, each in a different sub forum.


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
no offense boscopup --- as i really feel you have valid reasons for wanting the split. But you havent been here that long.... there is quite a bit of "history" of righteous people putting down mamas for spending money frivilously (in their opinion) on diapers.

No offense taken. It's obvious that alot has happened in the past that newcomers like me don't know about. And I think everyone needs to realize that this board is going to change out members over time, so the community from 6 months ago is not necessarily the same community as now. And I think if people are putting down mamas who stalk, maybe they should be reported to the moderators?

I was referring to Sustainer's particular comment where she seemed (at least to me, and she can correct me if I'm wrong in reading this) to be saying that all of the people who were pro-split were of this type of momma:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
They are the threads that certain frugal diapering mamas (the ones who want the split) are bothered by, either because they're bitter about not being able to afford the diapers, or because they have a self-righteous attitude about "consumerism."

Maybe she didn't mean it the way it sounded, but when she says "the ones who want the split", it sounds like she's saying that all of those who want the split are frugal mamas that are bothered by particular threads. This may very well be a misunderstanding of what she's saying, but the way I read it, it's kind of hurtful to those who are pro-split, yet not anti-hyena. KWIM? Especially since no one in this particular thread has posted anything anti-hyena.


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## sewingbarbj (Jun 15, 2004)

I don't like the idea of spliting the forum. I think it is already moderated enough without spliting every one into two camps.


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## My3babes (Jun 29, 2004)

Alice that is one powerful thread!! I couldnt even read past page one...









Really It is sad that everyone cant get along... no matter what our diapering preferences maybe...


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

*


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
You went to this thread and you still don't think that the agenda is to banish the hyenas? Everyone who is reading this thread right now, please click on the above thread and judge for yourselves. I want everyone to know what is really going on here!

All I have to say is, "Damn!" There's venom in those words, no doubt. Vicious. And sad, very sad.


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## My3babes (Jun 29, 2004)

A segregation is here.. alive and well..

We all assume too much about others by the type of diapers they buy...


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
Honestly, I think that was the whole point.

Exactly.

You know what I don't get? Why isn't this controversy happening in Babywearing? Lots of people spend $150 or more for a baby carrier. There are babywearers who collect and for whom (who?) it's a hobby. Why isn't everyone getting their dander up over there? (why isn't it being split into subforums?)


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## Sugarwoman (Mar 12, 2004)

I hate the idea of splitting it up. It takes all the fun out of the diapering forum IMO.


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## mom2orionplus1 (Sep 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
And, I will probably start to hang out more on the Stocking page and less on the main Diapering board, since the Stocking page will have what interests me. So it could have the unintended effect of less questions being answered.

ITA. I think that the splitting of the forums is going to have the opposite effect than intended. Speaking as a born and raised consumerist, I really do not like the idea of splitting the forums up. I don't know what belongs where and it's a PITA to have to check so many boards. Since the "show off" board has been implemented, I have found myself over there way more than the actual diapering board. A vote would be nice as I feel that the majority is NOT in support of this change.


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## SEEPAE (Feb 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *My3babes*
We all assume too much about others by the type of diapers they buy...

mmmmmmmmmhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2orionplus1*
ITA. I think that the splitting of the forums is going to have the opposite effect than intended. Speaking as a born and raised consumerist, I really do not like the idea of splitting the forums up. I don't know what belongs where and it's a PITA to have to check so many boards. Since the "show off" board has been implemented, I have found myself over there way more than the actual diapering board. A vote would be nice as I feel that the majority is NOT in support of this change.


I know for me now that school has started and we have more actitvities I'll be here less as it is and if I have to search around then it's not worth my time to be here at all and I'll take my subscription money with me - I'm sure that was not their intent but it may be the eventual outcome.....


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
You went to this thread and you still don't think that the agenda is to banish the hyenas?

Well, it started out as a prefold person feeling hurt by non-prefold people (and she refers to the thread that is gone, so I can't judge that thread specifically - sorry!). She then suggests creating a subforum for simple diapering like prefolds. So was she trying to banish herself? Looks like she didn't feel safe in the main forum, and wanted a place where she could feel safe - a subforum.

And as I keep reading through that thread, it's obvious that people don't all want to read hyena threads, and some are uncomfortable with consumerism, but banish hyenas? In the end, several people mention splitting into subforums, but specifically not hyena vs. frugal. Lots of love and happiness is shared, and chocolate eaten. :LOL

What I see in that thread is that prefold lovers have been hurt and hyenas have been hurt. And both have felt uncomfortable by certain threads. I'm not in either group (I use FBs right now). So maybe I can see this with a different perspective than people of both those groups? I just don't see how having a subforum makes you banished or unwanted. ECers and diaper sewers aren't banished or unwanted, are they? And nowhere in the new forum does it even mention "hyena" or say that it's only for hyena diapers. If the moderators wanted to banish hyenas, I would think they'd just disallow such posts, wouldn't they? I also don't see any reason why you can't post anything about hyena diapers in the main forum. You just wouldn't post stocking info or posts that display your new fluff (which again, it looks like that could be a prefold and a snappi or the elusive elbee).

I can see where you've been hurt by things said in the past, but it also seems to be a very few people who said or agree with those things. The diapering forum is not out to get anyone or banish anyone, and I'd say that the majority of the people that are pro-split aren't anti-hyena. At least, that's the feeling I get from reading this thread and the thread you mention.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Maybe she didn't mean it the way it sounded, but when she says "the ones who want the split", it sounds like she's saying that all of those who want the split are frugal mamas that are bothered by particular threads. This may very well be a misunderstanding of what she's saying, but the way I read it, it's kind of hurtful to those who are pro-split, yet not anti-hyena. KWIM?

No, I didn't mean that everyone who is pro-split is anti-hyena. I said that there are certain frugal diaperers who are bothered by stocking/showing threads. My reason for using the phrase "the ones who want the split" was simply to make it clear that not all frugal mamas are anti-hyena.

There may now be a few people, like yourself apparently, who are happy about the split simply because they think it will be more organized or whatever. However, I think that the driving force behind this change was/is an anti-hyena sentiment, as evidenced by the thread linked above.

Oh, I have also now been accused, several times, of saying that everyone who is pro-split is self-righteous. I never said that, either.


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
No, I didn't mean that everyone who is pro-split is anti-hyena.

Ok, I get you now.







And I'm sorry about the accusation of calling pro-splitters self-righteous. That came from the misunderstood quote. So I hearby say that you did not call all pro-splitters self-righteous.









Btw, the current description of the new subforum is:

Quote:

Share news of WAHM stocking, show off your new fluff, let us know what you've scored!
I don't see any reason why you can't show off a prefold, a kissaluv, a FB, a Bummis SWW, or any other non-hyena diaper in that forum. It also doesn't say anything about talking about hyena diapers. It just mentions stocking news and what you've scored, wrt hyena diapers. Seems like if you want to talk about a hyena diaper in particular, you'd still do that in the main forum. So I think the way it's been done is not separating hyena topics from non-hyena, but just separating stocking news and "show-off" threads (again, bad term) from other stuff. And the only hyena part there is the stocking, simply because non-hyena diapers don't require stocking news (scoring too, but then again, you could score a prefold too, IMO).


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

I am against the split.

We are mothers for gods sake. We dont have time to read 6-7 different sub-forums, I can see how a review forum and such is necessary as a sub-forum, but we all diaper. Its gonna get way too confusing as to what should I post in this forum or that forum. I liked it the way it was too.

I have like 6 other forums that I visit, one for each child, other CDing board, etc, and this is gonna get too confusing. I dont think the split is a good idea.


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## tarakay (Aug 17, 2004)

Quote:

And, I will probably start to hang out more on the Stocking page and less on the main Diapering board, since the Stocking page will have what interests me.
Honestly, I hope that's what happens. Unfortunately, I think the other scenario is that the Stocking and Show Off forum (I also have issues with the phrase "show off") will eventually die down and become pretty much defunct. The reason threads like that are fun is the conversation that goes on in them. Now that they're in a separate little corner, they're not going to be seen by nearly as many people, and the conversation will most likely suffer. I think that eventually people won't even bother.

It's plainly obvious from the number of posts over there that the "stocking and show off" threads were NOT overrunning the main diapering forum, and I fail to see the need for the separation. I think the overwhelming majority of people on the board enjoyed both kinds of posts.

The whole thing is just a shame.


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## SEEPAE (Feb 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tarakay*
It's plainly obvious from the number of posts over there that the "stocking and show off" threads were NOT overrunning the main diapering forum, and I fail to see the need for the separation.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(is that all I say now? LOL)


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I don't see any reason why you can't show off a prefold, a kissaluv, a FB, a Bummis SWW, or any other non-hyena diaper in that forum. It also doesn't say anything about talking about hyena diapers. It just mentions stocking news and what you've scored, wrt hyena diapers. Seems like if you want to talk about a hyena diaper in particular, you'd still do that in the main forum. So I think the way it's been done is not separating hyena topics from non-hyena, but just separating stocking news and "show-off" threads (again, bad term) from other stuff.

It's true that the subforum doesn't contain the word 'hyena,' but it is also true that the stocking and showing threads are the exact threads that the anti-hyenaism crowd keeps complaining about and saying that they don't want to see.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
And the only hyena part there is the stocking, simply because non-hyena diapers don't require stocking news

Exactly! "Stocking" = hyenaism/evil consumerism, etc. And it is the stocking threads I am most concerned with and that I most want returned to the main forum (although it also seems ridiculous to me to ban pictures of diapers from a diapering chat board).


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

No offense to anyone but it seems like those that want the split are not even people I recognize as big posters in diapering. I think those of us who have spent so much time here and got to know and love each other are the ones who are being made to feel banished. I don't see how it is fair that a few complaints from people who don't hang out here very often can make all of us have to deal with a split.

And the whole prefold thing makes me crazy. Some of our biggest posters in diapering are prefold fans.I have never seen anyone looked down on for using prefolds. And for the last two years I used to be here what seemed like 24/7 so that complaint just doesn't fly with me.


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## Just*Lindsay (May 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
No offense to anyone but it seems like those that want the split are not even people I recognize as big posters in diapering. I think those of us who have spent so much time here and got to know and love each other are the ones who are being made to feel banished. I don't see how it is fair that a few complaints from people who don't hang out here very often can make all of us have to deal with a split.


Yea That!


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just*Lindsay*
I am against the split.

We are mothers for gods sake. We dont have time to read 6-7 different sub-forums, I can see how a review forum and such is necessary as a sub-forum, but we all diaper. Its gonna get way too confusing as to what should I post in this forum or that forum. I liked it the way it was too.










:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

For those who haven't made it to the end of the original thread:

I've been re-reading the entire thing (had to pause for a cry when I got to Amy's post), and toward the end of the thread there is a post by one of the diapering mods that says:

Quote:

Re: making peace with hyenas vs. non-hyenas. We have actually been discussing that for awhile and are just working out the details. We too, feel that there needs to be a place for simple diaper talk and another place for hyena talk. Please be patient, changes are coming.
So in case there's still any doubt in anyone's mind as to whether or not this is about "simple diapering" vs. "hyena diapering"...








:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

After the mod's post, several "simple diaper" members suggest (a couple of them in a rather condescending way) that stocking, purchase and picture threads should be removed from the main forum to a seperate "hyena folder."

Hmm...


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Remember when they tried the daily show-off thread? Where we all had to show-off our fluff in one thread? And all the responses got all gumbled (as my 4-year-old says) together?

After a week or two every stopped showing off pictures and no one responded to the thread.

So.... is that what they are hoping to do with the show-off forum (and oh god how I hate that word!).


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## imgr8ful (Feb 25, 2005)

i don't like it - i thought everything was fine the way it was.

but if it has to be - can i suggest "stocking and sharing" as opposed to "show off"? because i don't think anyone is 'showing off', we just like to share our love of cd'ing!

eta - i think a vote on this would have been nice...

and also - there was a thread in the wahm forum about what this means for wahms - the stocking and sharing threads are what bring a lot of wahms business! i mean, when i first started cd'ing, if i read a post about a wahm that i hadn't heard of yet, i immediately went to her site to check things out!


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Hey, so I think they should do the same thing to the babbywearing forum too! it's too confusing! All the information, weeding through the pages and pages of posts that don't interest me, the stockings and bragging and carrying on about something your baby just sits in.

(totally tongue in cheek because I also own a ton of different baby wearing devices)


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## boscopup (Jul 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
No offense to anyone but it seems like those that want the split are not even people I recognize as big posters in diapering.

Are you referring to me? I do take offense to making the diapering forum be like an "old boys" (girls) club, where you can't have an opinion if you haven't been around long enough or haven't posted enough (there are probably plenty of people who have been lurking for YEARS, and they should have an opinion when it comes to how to read the forum too). And looking back at previous threads, there are several long time members that liked the idea of the split, as well as several that didn't (and I respect everyone's opinion on splitting vs. not splitting - we all have valid reasons for our opinions).

But the feeling I'm getting here is that I'm not welcome to an opinion that differs from some of the "old girls", and that makes me feel unwelcome in general. I'm done with this thread. It seems to only be producing hurt in people on both sides, whether intentional or not.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Are you referring to me? I do take offense to making the diapering forum be like an "old boys" (girls) club, where you can't have an opinion if you haven't been around long enough or haven't posted enough (there are probably plenty of people who have been lurking for YEARS, and they should have an opinion when it comes to how to read the forum too). And looking back at previous threads, there are several long time members that liked the idea of the split, as well as several that didn't (and I respect everyone's opinion on splitting vs. not splitting - we all have valid reasons for our opinions).

But the feeling I'm getting here is that I'm not welcome to an opinion that differs from some of the "old girls", and that makes me feel unwelcome in general. I'm done with this thread. It seems to only be producing hurt in people on both sides, whether intentional or not.

hugs mama!! I can't speak for Jamie but I don't believe this was about you at all. There have been a few posts in the past few months that have been deleted that got really ugly and and a fair amount of the posters were MDC'ers that do not normally post in diapering. They are concerned that the diapering forum does not go along with the NFL values because of the consumerism aspect of diapering. They may or may not CD but their voice that has been heard and it feels like the people who hang out here regularly have been told what to do and not given a voice in our own "home". I've been feeling this myself as I've watched this change evolve. Nothing I've said has ever made a difference ........


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## emmalala (Dec 3, 2001)

OK, just to identify myself, I am a mostly-lurker who has been here a good long while, and a cheapskate. I have a strong desire to see this forum offer support to CD users who need to troubleshoot, I don't care about the hyena threads one way or another, I do like the threads where people describe new products although I have always wished they would write reviews instead.

This issue comes up again and again and the moderators have tried to address it with other options before. I remember at least one occasion when a split was mooted and rejected.

Instead of getting mad at each other, can someone think of a creative solution that addresses the needs of all the community members? Would diaper-shoppers be happy if everyone was in a subforum? What would happen to new users? To folks who are thinking about CD? To experienced diaperers who had problems? Can anyone think of other audiences whose needs have to be addressed?


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## LoveBaby (Jul 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
And the whole prefold thing makes me crazy. Some of our biggest posters in diapering are prefold fans.I have never seen anyone looked down on for using prefolds. And for the last two years I used to be here what seemed like 24/7 so that complaint just doesn't fly with me.

I







you!!!

I've been here for over a year, posted a *lot*, done the hyena thing and now have nearly an all prefold/flat simple stash. And not one time have I *ever* felt "looked down" on, made fun of or otherwise. So..I'm not for the split either, but I did think it was cool to be the first poster in a forum!







:









oh..btw..it's me Jesse, just in case you didn't know I changed my user name!!


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## Oceanone (Oct 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emmalala*

Instead of getting mad at each other, can someone think of a creative solution that addresses the needs of all the community members? Would diaper-shoppers be happy if everyone was in a subforum? What would happen to new users? To folks who are thinking about CD? To experienced diaperers who had problems? Can anyone think of other audiences whose needs have to be addressed?

I think the feeling is that these "audiences" aren't as divided as some people think, that you can skip threads not of interest and that there is a lot of cross-over. It's a lot of work for moderators too, keeping everything seperated. However the decision has been made and I think we should give it a go and see how it works for people.


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## kath (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveBaby*
I







you!!!

I've been here for over a year, posted a *lot*, done the hyena thing and now have nearly an all prefold/flat simple stash. And not one time have I *ever* felt "looked down" on, made fun of or otherwise. So..I'm not for the split either, but I did think it was cool to be the first poster in a forum!







:









oh..btw..it's me Jesse, just in case you didn't know I changed my user name!!

nak

i've been here awhile and never felt out of place and i do diapers very cheap. i love looking at expensive items (and have recently bought a few) but don't buy them. i've ever felt excluded. just my 2 cents.

that said, i do like things the way they were in one big area since time is limited now.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

I don't see how it's that hard to sift through the board the way it has always been, to click on threads that interest you. Especially since you can just point your mouse to the title of the thread and it gives you the first line or two of the OP, so you really have a decent idea of what the thread is about.


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## Moon Faerie (Aug 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2orionplus1*
ITA. I think that the splitting of the forums is going to have the opposite effect than intended. Speaking as a born and raised consumerist, I really do not like the idea of splitting the forums up. I don't know what belongs where and it's a PITA to have to check so many boards. Since the "show off" board has been implemented, I have found myself over there way more than the actual diapering board. A vote would be nice as I feel that the majority is NOT in support of this change.

Yup, that's what I think too. I'm taking a pretty heavy course load this semester, and I barely have time to pop in at all, let alone in 2 separate forums about diapers. The stocking/"show-off" threads are what interest me. I like trying new stuff and seeing what everyone has. Not to mention, it's super helpful to see pics of the diapers on babes, so I can get an idea of fit. With all the posts in one forum, I will reply to questions, since they're right there. If I have to go to a whole other forum, I'm probably not gonna be answering too many questions. The questions I do have, I'll just be taking to the other board I post on, where I *gasp* talk about what diaper fits best on one thread and then offer support to a momma having a bad day in the next and then rant about my ds eating crayons again in the next.

I think having things so separated are one of the reasons it takes mamas so long to feel comfortable here, esp if they are not TAO regulars. I'm a Sr member; I've been here for over a year; I post in many of the different forums. Yet I still feel like an outsider most of the time. I'm not saying that I feel that my posts are ignored or not answered quick enough. It's that the responses are missing the personal touch that I see in some of the other people's posts. I think that's because posts are kept so on topic that it's hard to get to know each other.

ETA: I'm not crazy about the subforum being named as stocking and show-off either.


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## SEEPAE (Feb 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
I don't see how it's that hard to sift through the board the way it has always been, to click on threads that interest you. Especially since you can just point your mouse to the title of the thread and it gives you the first line or two of the OP, so you really have a decent idea of what the thread is about.

ugh this option for some reason doesnt work for me anymore







: I use to love to be able to do a preview and see if the threads with unrevealing titles had good stuff in them, LOL


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
I do take offense to making the diapering forum be like an "old boys" (girls) club, where you can't have an opinion if you haven't been around long enough or haven't posted enough (there are probably plenty of people who have been lurking for YEARS, and they should have an opinion when it comes to how to read the forum too).

If I were new at a message board or if I had only/mostly lurked at it, and I thought the board would be better if it were reorganized in a certain way, but it was obvious that most of the people who had regularly posted on the board for a long time preferred the current organization, I would never insist that my "vote" should be taken into consideration just as much as the "votes" of those who had been the actual regular posters on the board for a long time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
There have been a few posts in the past few months that have been deleted that got really ugly and and a fair amount of the posters were MDC'ers that do not normally post in diapering. They are concerned that the diapering forum does not go along with the NFL values because of the consumerism aspect of diapering. They may or may not CD but their voice that has been heard and it feels like the people who hang out here regularly have been told what to do and not given a voice in our own "home". I've been feeling this myself as I've watched this change evolve.

Exactly. This is something that is being done TO us. It is not something that WE have asked for.


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trishshack*
We would like to poll the users of this forum for thier suggestions in forum naming. We were thinking of changing Diapering to something like Diapering Basics or Diapering 101. We would also like input as to a final name for the new Stocking and Show Off forum. After we have received your request we will create a poll to select the names.

Have been spending my time preparing for our new baby who will be here soon







so have not been to the diapering forum much the past few weeks or read anything other than the OP in this thread, so my apologies for missing others' comments.

-I like Diapering Basics better than Diapering 101. To me Diapering Basics is broader. To me, 101 sounds like a forum for people who haven't started CDing yet. DB, on the other hand, could include the problem-solving aspects of CDing that can come up at any stage of the game.

-I think Stocking and Show Off sounds fine.

Hope everyone is doing well and had a good Labor Day weekend!


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveBaby*
I







you!!!

I've been here for over a year, posted a *lot*, done the hyena thing and now have nearly an all prefold/flat simple stash. And not one time have I *ever* felt "looked down" on, made fun of or otherwise. So..I'm not for the split either, but I did think it was cool to be the first poster in a forum!







:










oh..btw..it's me Jesse, just in case you didn't know I changed my user name!!

There you are!!!







I kept looking to see you post and was wondering where you went :LOL

Good thing you told me who you were because I was getting ready to make fun of your prefold stash. You're so 70's Jesse







:


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## LoveBaby (Jul 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
There you are!!!







I kept looking to see you post and was wondering where you went :LOL

Good thing you told me who you were because I was getting ready to make fun of your prefold stash. You're so 70's Jesse








:

















:

I know..I should really get w/ the times and overhaul my stash to something a bit more "modern"!









I've missed seeing you around!! There's been tons of good drama you'd have just loved! :LOL


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## nakagain (Feb 12, 2004)

I think all the different boards are annoying. Having a basic diapering FAQ page is great but if I want to talk about diapers, I don't want to figure out which board to post on. If I get an awesome diaper in the mail, I don't want to feel as if I'm wrong in posting my excitment because I didn't post it in the brag section.

Keep it simple!!


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## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boscopup*
Are you referring to me? I do take offense to making the diapering forum be like an "old boys" (girls) club, where you can't have an opinion if you haven't been around long enough or haven't posted enough (there are probably plenty of people who have been lurking for YEARS, and they should have an opinion when it comes to how to read the forum too). And looking back at previous threads, there are several long time members that liked the idea of the split, as well as several that didn't (and I respect everyone's opinion on splitting vs. not splitting - we all have valid reasons for our opinions).

But the feeling I'm getting here is that I'm not welcome to an opinion that differs from some of the "old girls", and that makes me feel unwelcome in general. I'm done with this thread. It seems to only be producing hurt in people on both sides, whether intentional or not.

No I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to many of the posters in that thread that Alice linked from Q&A. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt









This is a general thought , not about you either







:

I don't think diapering should be run like the old girl's club.That is not what I meant at all. I just think that when you are new to a place you don't see that everything actually does flow and run smoothly. I think people who don't hang out here much would not see that unless they started spending more time here. I can't imagine just showing up in another forum here and complaining and requesting changes to please me.

I don't know why it is so hard to just not click on a "hyena thread" if you are not interested. There are a few people who I don't like here and I just don't click on their posts.I didn't know I could just ask that they be banished to a different forum


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
I don't know why it is so hard to just not click on a "hyena thread" if you are not interested. There are a few people who I don't like here and I just don't click on their posts.I didn't know I could just ask that they be banished to a different forum

















: I







you Jamie! I'm glad you're back mama!!!


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## Oceanone (Oct 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nakagain*

Keep it simple!!











I agree that simplicity is lacking in the new layout. There are lots of crossover threads and grey areas and a greater need for moderators to step in, decide and move etc.








Jamie, we miss you!!!


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSugarKane*
. There are a few people who I don't like here and I just don't click on their posts.I didn't know I could just ask that they be banished to a different forum

















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:







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But secretly







: that she isn't thinking of me when she says that.







:


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

I have to say that I think the split is total BS! We've talked about this before and the people who post regularly on the diapering board DID NOT FAVOR a split and yet here we are! Like Kate said...I guess our voice and our votes did not get counted here.

I like simplicity...I liked the way things were.

Believe it or not...the "SHOW OFF" threads HELP our fellow WAHMs! I buy fluff and wool from show off threads. I see products on babes and see how they fit. I love it when someone brags about something because it must be GREAT! And guess what? It makes me want to try something out!

The WAHMs are the ones that are going to take the brunt of this by "hiding" away the stocking announcements and the "show off" threads.

Do what you want, but this makes a lot of people upset...including me! And from what I'm reading here it's making the regular posters upset as well. I'm not alone here!

But it doesn't really matter because our opinions obviously don't count for very much.

Ask the WAHMs what they think...they are the ones who are trying to make a living so they can stay at home with their children.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nohomama*
Well, that may be what you're hearing but that's not what _I_ said. Go back and read what you quoted from my post. I simply said, whether you understood it or not, there are some mamas here who feel alienated by the spilt. I didn't include myself in that group nor did I try to explain why they felt that way. I think you've got the gist of their argument and I've gotta say your dismisal of it is pretty, I don't know, offensive? cold? insensitive? If I read you right, your discomfort with "show off and $200 auction stuff" somehow takes precedence. Why?

Believe it or not, I was honestly trying to understand the other "side" of the argument, but I am not inclined to listen to anything you have to say when you are being insulting and rude.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
As I said before, that is NOT what happened. Someone posted a picture of a white prefold and said things like "Check out this incredible dipe -- I can't believe I got it -- you won't believe how amazing it is..." and so on and so forth. And then the next few posters followed suit, saying things like "WOW, those are really RARE! I've never seen one quite like it..." I don't believe any of these first few posters were people who generally post in the diapering forum. Then someone asked what was rare about the diaper, and one of the original posters responded by posting an 'irked' smilie and saying that something didn't have to be rare to be nice. Then ONE person who understandably thought that the purpose of the thread was to mock hyenas, referred to the first few posters as trolls from TAO.

I have a completely different perception of what happened on that thread. I was called a troll, and have posted in the diapering forum. That mama had bravely left her marriage, was dirt poor, was expecting a new baby any day, and was proud of her dipes, and was made to feel like crap. Maybe we could agree that there was enough misunderstanding and blame to go around on that thread?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
Exactly! "Stocking" = hyenaism/evil consumerism, etc. And it is the stocking threads I am most concerned with and that I most want returned to the main forum (although it also seems ridiculous to me to ban pictures of diapers from a diapering chat board).


Really? I am looking forward to having one place to look to discover if my favorite dipes are being stocked somewhere.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I have a completely different perception of what happened on that thread. I was called a troll, and have posted in the diapering forum. That mama had bravely left her marriage, was dirt poor, was expecting a new baby any day, and was proud of her dipes, and was made to feel like crap. Maybe we could agree that there was enough misunderstanding and blame to go around on that thread?


You honestly don't think she was mocking any of the women here in any way??? I know my feelings were hurt when I read the first few posts...


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
If I were new at a message board or if I had only/mostly lurked at it, and I thought the board would be better if it were reorganized in a certain way, but it was obvious that most of the people who had regularly posted on the board for a long time preferred the current organization, I would never insist that my "vote" should be taken into consideration just as much as the "votes" of those who had been the actual regular posters on the board for a long time.

I cannot begin to tell you how much this attitude pisses me off. You do not own the forum. No one person owns this forum. There are many voices to listen to here. Some of us post only when we have a cloth diapering "crisis," some of us post all the time, and some of only lurk, but that certainly does not mean that any one person is more worthy of listening to than another.







:


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
You honestly don't think she was mocking any of the women here in any way??? I know my feelings were hurt when I read the first few posts...

I personally know that mama, and no, I don't. She was looking for a little joy in a joyless situation. That's all.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I personally know that mama, and no, I don't. She was looking for a little joy in a joyless situation. That's all.

That's the problem with the internet in general isn't it?? Words on a message board are not real communication - you can't see the facial expressions, or hear the voice inflections or even "know" the person to understand their background. I know I was not the only woman to feel mocked and berated yet I do not recall her trying to explain things as the discussion got completely out of hand. The women on this board are extremely generous and compassionate when given the chance


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
That's the problem with the internet in general isn't it?? Words on a message board are not real communication - you can't see the facial expressions, or hear the voice inflections or even "know" the person to understand their background. I know I was not the only woman to feel mocked and berated yet I do not recall her trying to explain things as the discussion got completely out of hand. The women on this board are extremely generous and compassionate when given the chance









Well, if you're feeling generous, say a quick prayer for us- we're off the the ER for my baby boy.


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## Moon Faerie (Aug 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *threeforme2005*
Believe it or not...the "SHOW OFF" threads HELP our fellow WAHMs! I buy fluff and wool from show off threads. I see products on babes and see how they fit. I love it when someone brags about something because it must be GREAT! And guess what? It makes me want to try something out!

The WAHMs are the ones that are going to take the brunt of this by "hiding" away the stocking announcements and the "show off" threads.

I agree. I know there are tons of dipes I wouldn't have tried if people hadn't posted them.

It doesn't seem to matter though. It appears the choice is made, and those of us against the spilt just aren't doing a good enough job expressing why we are against it. Have fun. I need a break from this nonsense. What we put on our babies butts should not cause this much drama and frustration.


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## zexplorers (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Well, if you're feeling generous, say a quick prayer for us- we're off the the ER for my baby boy.










Absolutely mama!! Absolutely!!!







: Update when you can


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zexplorers*
That's the problem with the internet in general isn't it?? Words on a message board are not real communication - you can't see the facial expressions, or hear the voice inflections or even "know" the person to understand their background. I know I was not the only woman to feel mocked and berated yet I do not recall her trying to explain things as the discussion got completely out of hand. The women on this board are extremely generous and compassionate when given the chance









Exactly exactly exactly!







And boy do I sure know all about communication issues via a text only forum...it's really hard to relay what you really mean online. And yes also to feeling mocked and berated on that thread. Funny how so many women feel that way and yet it's not really what was going on? Very hard to relay emotions...indeed!


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## boricuaqueen327 (Oct 11, 2004)

wow i kinda missed this thread...but i like the idea of the regular diapering area being called diapering chat or "everything you want to know about diapers" and the stock/diaper display subforum to be called "fluffymail" or "Diaper Exhibit/Display".


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## HRC121799 (Aug 8, 2003)

I'm against the split. And I was a new-to-mothering poster 2 years ago and I don't think the Diapering board is as "hyena" driven as it has been in the past. I definitely think it had a good mixture lately of posts. And I don't like the split. Just my two cents, not like it's going to change anything. I'll just be scarce.


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## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

I am quite shocked at some of the negative language used here. I do not think it leads to compassionate communcation. It seems to be a matter of perception--I am an avid diaperer, I love to talk diapers, but I also love to help others to find that. I do not see reorganization as banishment or as segregating, I see it as taking an overwhelmed, busy forum and making it more user friendly and accessible to everyone--not just the regulars.

To the person who insinuated some lurkers only come out on these threads, that is quite unfair. I have made a large number of my posts in Diapering, but I felt it did not serve the purpose in which I needed it for so I posted here less and less. But I bet my overall totals show a high level of posts here, as others would probably too. Not to mention, recently my son has learned to the use the toliet and my passion lies with Diaper Advocacy and Support rather than about buying.

I agree, people are using this forum for 2 purposes. What is wrong with organizing it as such? I see it merely as an organizational tool--not one to segregate, banish, hide or deter consumerism. I am against rampant consumerism, but that does not mean I need the forum to cater to my life philosophy. However, this is a Natural Living Community, and part of natural living is being conscious of consumerism and how what you buy and use effects the earth and others around you.

I think it is wonderful we support WAHMS, that diapers are becoming more and more labors of love and gorgeous creations and that there is a market in which we can have products that run the gamut. But some contend it does not overwhelm the basics, the questions and the threads seeking advice, but it does for me and clearly it does for others. For me it is not about hyena versus basic, consumption versus conscious buying--it is about promoting and supporting the use of cloth diapers as a real, viable diapering option.

I do think there are _way too many_ subforums, and that they could easily be more streamlined and organized as not to have so much to wade through. And I think that moving reviews in a central location will help, as well as combined the archives. Also, rethinking the FAQs might be helpful as well.


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## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nakagain*
I think all the different boards are annoying. Having a basic diapering FAQ page is great but if I want to talk about diapers, I don't want to figure out which board to post on. If I get an awesome diaper in the mail, I don't want to feel as if I'm wrong in posting my excitment because I didn't post it in the brag section.

Keep it simple!!


I'm a day late and a dollar short but this is my opinion too. I love the idea of a FAQ page because there is so much great info on questions that come up over and over again that gets "lost". Other than that, I really don't want to be switching back and forth between forums trying to find out where to post stuff. I wouldn't know the difference between "diapering 101" and "diapering chat". The "show off" board would be pretty self explanatory I guess, but since I'm not a hyena diaper user I'd probably never go there and I'd probably miss some good stuff.


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## *Devon* (Aug 9, 2004)

I don't think separating the "stocking and show-off" thread will be hiding it away at all!!!

I don't even have kids, but I check the Diapering board a few times a week just to see what new adorable things people have scored!! If they are divided, I would check the subforum more than the main forum. JMHO.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
That mama had bravely left her marriage, was dirt poor, was expecting a new baby any day, and was proud of her dipes, and was made to feel like crap.

If the diapering mamas thought that someone was simply expressing genuine enthusiasm and pride in her prefold, we would NEVER say anything negative. I really wish you would stop describing the incident by saying that someone posted a picture of her prefold and was met with negative comments. You keep leaving out the crucial fact that the only reason anyone said anything negative is because we felt we were being made fun of, as a result of several of the comments that accompanied the picture.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
I cannot begin to tell you how much this attitude pisses me off.

Why does it tick you off for me to say what I personally would or would not do on another message board? I'm sorry you're upset that I wouldn't go to TAO and say 'anyone here who wants to talk about xyz should do it on a subforum from now on, because then this forum will conform to my standards better.' Keep in mind, I did not say anything about what anyone else should or should not do. I simply said what I wouldn't do. I also didn't say that there's any voice that shouldn't be listened to.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I think that buying cloth diapers is fully in line with NFL, conscious buying, environmentalism, and responsibility to the community.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

but my little guy is fine- he had nursemaid's elbow- he has a bad habit of making his feet go slack and drag when we are walking through parking lots, and I feel like a crappy mama right now, but he's fine.

Meco, you're right and I apologize- I won't contribute to the negativity any longer. I am truly sorry some mamas here are hurt, and I hope it all works out for the best.


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## Oceanone (Oct 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*







but my little guy is fine- he had nursemaid's elbow- he has a bad habit of making his feet go slack and drag when we are walking through parking lots, and I feel like a crappy mama right now, but he's fine.


Thank goodness your little one is OK.







Hope your evening gets better.


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## LoveBaby (Jul 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*







but my little guy is fine- he had nursemaid's elbow- he has a bad habit of making his feet go slack and drag when we are walking through parking lots, and I feel like a crappy mama right now, but he's fine.

Meco, you're right and I apologize- I won't contribute to the negativity any longer. I am truly sorry some mamas here are hurt, and I hope it all works out for the best.











Glad your buddy is ok. We've been to the ER for the same thing..then I learned how to reset it myself and had to about 3 more times. Apparently once it happens once, it's easier to have happen again, just an FYI. And my kids do the same thing in the parking lot..they thinks it's a hysterical game (until DS's elbow pops out of place!)


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I guess I'm still confused about the separation of the forums. There are many threads in the main Diapering forum, relating to "what's your baby wearing" and posts about fluffy mail and such, that have many posts, and weren't moved to the "Stocking and Show Off" forum? I thought that was what it was supposed to be for.

Maybe the mods just haven't stopped by yet this afternoon.


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## nohomama (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meco*
I do think there are _way too many_ subforums, and that they could easily be more streamlined and organized as not to have so much to wade through. And I think that moving reviews in a central location will help, as well as combined the archives. Also, rethinking the FAQs might be helpful as well.

I heartily agree with this.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Meco,

I think why tempers are a bit flared is because while the PTB are saying the split is for organization it was born out of a call for a seperation of frugal vs. hyena. I have read every single thread from the very first snappi and prefold thread that turned nasty to the several threads talking about splitting up diapering. All of the earlier threads stated that those in favour of the split wanted it so that the expensive version of diapering was apart from the frugal version of diapering.

Plain and simple.

Now the split has occurred and everyone is spouting off about how organized it is, etc. But it wasn't split because people were complaining that it was confusing. It was split because people were complaining about hyenas vs. frugal diapering.

I have never seen a hyena mock anyone for their diapering choices. Most of the crazy hyenas on this board (and oh man I am one of the top ones) have always supported any diapering choice any mama has chosen to make. When LoveBaby decided to completely simplify we all cheered her on. No one mocked her.

And yet we get mocked all the time. From stupidity comments for spending $200 on a diaper for our kids to $h!% in to overconsumerism comments (as though we are buying our diapers from Walmart!) to.. well the list goes on and on.

The point I am trying to make is if the mods had come to the diapering board and said, "Listen, we think things are a bit confusing here and we want to make it easier to navigate. Got any suggestions?" well I am pretty sure we would all have some great suggestions.

But they didn't. Instead non-diaperng board posters complained they didn't like the hyena aspect of the board (and I admit we have a lot of hyenas here but we have a lot who aren't) and they wanted it split. Not for easier navigation or organization but for a frugal vs. hyena. WITH the hyenas off in a sub-forum.


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## apmama (Jul 22, 2004)

Kate, I just couldn't agree more. Well said, kudos and all that crap. The whole thing has left a very nasty taste in my mouth.


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## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, I read the threads too, and I fully understand what you are saying.

Overconsumerism does not mean buying sposies at Wal-Mart. Consumption means we are using goods and services. Overconsumption would be using more resources than you need. Of course, everyone perceives their needs to be different. I realize not everyone here is NFL or mindful of what they buy, resources they use and how it effects the earth. But this still is a community with does promote mindfulness. This is not our agenda, but the mission of the entire website.

I have spent my fair share of dollars on diapers. I have done hyena diapering, and I have done prefolds. For me it is not about the money spent because well, like art, clothes, food and hotels there are definitely many quality and price levels. Different people have different preferences and ideals. I am not one to tell you what you can and cannot buy. I totally support buying diapers from WAHMs. And I am all for them earning a fair wage for what they create. I am more concerned about myself and how much I consume.

But rampant consumerism is a huge problem in our society. I think it is important to acknowledge it and be aware of it. I can see why some are concerned about the overtone being all about showing off, stalking, what I bought, what got what, etc. It is not as simple as hyena versus basic to me. Show offs, stalkings, fluffy mail threads, etc are not all hyena threads. They are non-hyena as well.

I also do not think hyenas or any more active diapering posters mock people. I know diapering mamas are kind, generous, helpful and always step up to the plate. They never leave their community members behind. I agree with you there. And I do not think any of them are intentionally trying to ignore or exclude anyone. But posters have said they feel like their posts go by unnoticed, that they do not get help. I have heard the reasons why some say this happens--the people who read it may not be able to help, what you would say has been said, whatever. But the fact is, some people feel like there is a problem here. I would hope as a community we would work towards finding a way to help these people. As a CD advocate, I want to promote the use of cloth, and show people it is easy, affordable, convenient and worthwhile. But roadblocks happen and we need to offer them support.

Tangent there. You said hyenas are mocked. I have seen judgement passed, and that sucks. Again, for me it is not about the dollar amount spent. But bringing up a very real issue, like consumerism and overconsumption, is not being mocked, it is someone who is passionate about something posting to share their piece with you.

But I remember a thread where possible solutions were discussed. So it is not as if people could not have offered other, better solutions. And the "non diapering posters" is part of what I am talking about, so much for community. I do not post here all that often anymore (as I explained above), but I lurk all the time and read many threads. In my earlier days here, I too spent most of my time in this forum and have posted here a lot. I love Diapering too, and part of the reason I do not post is because of the direction of the board. It does not fit my needs. But as I mentioned, I do not expect the board to fit me. I expect it to be the best it can be to as many people as possible, hopefully an endless resources for those who want to CD, already CDed or have CDed.

I also see there have been various reasons for this split/reorganization, but to me this is nit picking, For whatever the reason, there was some unhappiness with the direction of the board. As a community, I think it is great we are working to solve that issue by trying new ways of connecting people to diapering. I am more focused on making the change positive rather than dwelling on the past.

We are your potential posters, your possible sisters. You are here, so it works for you. Others are not here because it does not work for them, _why can changes not be made in the attempt to bring more people in?_ Maybe it could work for more people, and that would be a good thing.

Anyway, I really just would like to try to make any changes with a positive spirit, and hopefully build a beneficial community for all. I think there is more work, the revamp is not complete. Perhaps in the end it will work for us all. What do you think are some possible strategies for reorganization? I think brainstorming positive solutions is a good place to start. SInce input is still being taken, we all could offer other ways to do it.


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

Ok, I think that there has been just about enough speculation and accusations about why this is happening. The change was suggested and being discussed before the infamous prefold thread. Cynthia, Megan, Darshani and I have been doing our best to try to find a solution to this that makes most everyone happy. We tried to make a Basics subforum and that was met with much resistance and plenty of suggestions that we do the show off forum instead. So we decided to do that. And now it seems that y'all don't want this either. The Diapering forum is the most heavily trafficked forum on MDC. The subforum is being implemented to make Diapering more user friendly to everybody, hyenas, simple stashers, newbies, old timers, and whatever other groups are out there.

I am a mod of this forum and I am also a person. I have been a member here for almost 3 years and care a lot about the community and its members. My feelings are hurt by many of the comments made in this thread. If any of you has any helpful suggestions for a solution that will be amicable to most everyone I would love to hear it. The implication and accusations that we are doing this to segregate the hyenas is personally offensive to me and preposterous. If you have a better idea of what subforum(s) could be added to make it more user friendly to _everyone_ let's hear it. The speculation about why "they" are doing this stops here.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

We have made the decision to reorganize the forum so this is not a thread to debate the split or post why you think it is being done or why it is wrong or what else can be done. This is not the first time the issue has been raised nor was the heated thread referred to the impetus for the reorganization. The mods, both past and present Diapering mods, have long seen the need for a better organization of the forum, have had to deal with the issue themselves, had fielded many inquiries from newbies and other members about the thread flooded forum that prevented them from getting basic diapering questions answered well. We made a few attempts in the past to organize without creating more subforums hoping to resolve the issue. It didn't work well, and really, not at all. We would like to try a different setup. Yes, TRY. We will try it out and see how it goes. If we see it is more detrimental to the forum as a whole rather than a benefit, we'll step back and reconsider. It's not that difficult to do.

I realize this may not be a comfortable or convenient change for some. But we ask that you work with us in giving it a try. If you can't do that then we apologize for whatever difficulties we may create for you in these changes and hope you can manage to visit and contribute as a member whenever and however possible for you.

As we got little response to our OP question about titles for the forum and subforums. I'll close this thread now and we'll work with prior suggestions to get the new set up started. As for questions about what goes where, all that will be worked out as we implement the new organization and make decisions as we move ahead. I'm sure the mods will do their best to keep you all informed. This forum means a lot to them as it does to all of you. So let's please give it and them a chance to improve things and make it a beneficial reorganization, even if you do personally disagree with the changes.


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