# Did your child start talking 'late'??



## ejsmommy (May 14, 2004)

Dd is 20 mo. and basically doesn't say anything although she can and does on rare occasion and it always seems accidental. She signs and communicates by physically, demonstrating what she wants etc. I would love to hear from mamas of older kids who didn't talk till 2 or beyond to hear how/when they did begin talking and how they are now.
Thanks for your help!!!


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## SagMom (Jan 15, 2002)

My youngest didn't talk until he was two. Once he started, of course, it was constant! :LOL He had trouble with the "L" sound, which isn't unusual, and still has some trouble with a few blends, but otherwise he's just a chatterbox.

My older two spoke early, and I don't remember them having any particular trouble with sounds, so this was a new thing for me.


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## Sneezykids (Feb 24, 2003)

my ds didn't was only putting two words together at 3, we thought he was a late talker. My dd, (oldest), was an early talker. We think he just was sponging everything up and big Sis said alot for him too :LOL
We were a little worried and he qualified for a special preschool program through our public school. But, now that the year is over, I don't attribute his non stop talking to school really, I think he just didn't have much to say. And of course, I heard the comments "he's a boy, they are slower to speak"







:
Poo on them. He is fine fine fine!! He'll be four in September and is not only speaking clearly, but has quite the vocab too!
It's hard not to worry, esp. if you have others that did speak earlier.
HTH.


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## cool_mom (Mar 20, 2005)

Albert Einstein didn't start talking until he was 3. I didn't speak until I was 10...One day, my mom gave me a bowl of soup. I took one taste, and I told her that it was cold. Mom was shocked and asked me why I didn't speak earlier. I told her that there wasn't anything worth saying before then. :LOL


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

My ds1 had 3 words at age 18 months. His hearing was fine and he communicated well otherwise. We could tell he was very bright, but he just wasn't talking. In addition, he had very few sounds. He basically was quiet, except for whining and grunting.

We felt something was wrong and had him evaled by a speech pathologist. Turns out he had a very tight frenulum. At age 20 months, we had it surgically corrected and by age 24 months with the help of speech therapy, he had about 20 words, and more importantly, he was begininning to make different sounds.

After age 2, he progressed quickly and was appropriate for age level by age 2.25 and was d/c'd from therapy. And today, he's 3.5 and has amazing speech and vocabulary.

Personally, I think there was more to his speech delay then just the frenulum.

If you are concerned about your dd, then read up on what is normal for a child her age. If she is well below what is considered the norm, then I would have her evaled. I know some here take more of a 'watch and wait' approach, but imo, speech development or the lack thereof is an important issue and a simple speech eval is non-traumatic and non-invasive. And truthfully, I think 24 months is the cut-off for the 'watch and wait' approach anyway. I think most peds automatically eval (or at least order evals) for all 2 year olds with little to no speech.

Quote:

I didn't speak until I was 10...One day, my mom gave me a bowl of soup. I took one taste, and I told her that it was cold. Mom was shocked and asked me why I didn't speak earlier. I told her that there wasn't anything worth saying before then.
Hmm, I wasn't under the impression that the OP was looking for jokes here. That's the oldest speech pathologist joke in the book. 10 years old and not talking, yeah right.


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

my son had one word when he was about that age - more (only it sounded like moy). By the time he was 2 1/2 he had a huge vocabulary and wonderful pronunciation - like that of a child at least a year older than he. Even now (he's 3 ) people ALWAYS comment on how well he speaks and think he's 4 or 5.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Have you had her hearing checked?


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I wouldn't worry too much at 20 months. If she can understand what you say to her, uses language even if it's not spoken, gets her point across in ways other than speaking aloud, and follows simple, two-step instructions, she's still well within the range of normal development.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

My oldest didn't talk until he was 22 months. And it turned out that he's advanced, which we weren't paying attention to due to his lack of speech. I'm not saying that late talkers are all advanced in other areas. But in my son's case, people assumed that he wasn't as smart because he didn't speak, and it turned out that he's very advanced, particularly in visual-spatial areas. I hate the assumption that speech is linked to intelligence.

With my son, up until 22 months, he said, "Dad", "dissie" (nursie), and "dissis?" (this is?). He knew a few signs, but I had been somewhat lazy about introducing them. He had fantastic receptive speech, i.e. he could understand and follow directions, point to a variety of requested objects in books, etc. He made his needs known through lots of grunting and pointing. He made a lot of eye contact and sometimes would animatedly babble to other people, which always sounded like, "Da da da DAda DA da dada DA". He didn't even say, "Mama".

One day, when he was 22 months, I gave him some water and he said, "Tay-too....". And he said, "wa-bwa", which was "water". That incident seemed to open the flood-gates for him. He started repeating any word we'd offer to him. He started using words to communicate what he wanted (e.g. "shoo?" /shoes for going outside). Within 3 months of this, he basically sounded like any other boy his age. And at some point, he spoke very well (by 3 maybe). He just turned 4 and he has great speech. He creates long sentences, uses big words and just manages to express himself well. People easily understand what he is saying and he is very chatty with adults.

Our ped really pushed for an evaluation, but we opted to skip it. DS was only 15 months at the time and we felt he just was operating on his own timetable. I read an insane amount of material on late speech, autism, hyperlexia (he knew all the letter sounds), everything you could name, and I worried myself a fair bit. I had read that most kids have a jump in speech around 18 months and around 24 months. So we decided to wait until age 2 to give him a chance to develop on his own. It seems like most people do the eval and intervention these days, but based on our gut feeling and what we observed with ds, we decided to wait and see instead.

You asked for anecdotes. I hope this helps in some way.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

I also wanted to say that you should go with what you gut instincts as a mother are telling you. Those are very strong, but we often don't listen to them. In my heart of hearts, I really felt that nothing was "off" and I was right. A PP said that she had a gut feeling that something was wrong and her child ended up having a tight frenulum. Your gut can really lead you in the right direction, but it can be hard to hear with all the messages that everyone gives us.

I heard a lot of those messages when my son didn't speak. I heard, of course, the boy explanation. The most annoying one I repeatedly heard from people was that it was basically MY fault, because I spoke to him too much and met too many of his needs. He's not speaking, they said, because you're doing so much for him and he doesn't *need* to say anything. The implication was that I was hurting him in some way and that he was being lazy.







: On the other side of that coin, I heard that he didn't speak, because he wasn't with enough children so he couldn't copy them. In that case, it was also a "blame the mother" deal, because he was an only child and why wasn't he in a preschool program? Someone subsequently told me that research shows that children acquire speech primarily through adults rather than other kids and that they use lip-reading to learn a lot of it.

So, try to go with your gut feelings on your child, rather than what well-intentioned but usually misguided people tell you. You know your child best.


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

ds1 barely talked before 2. He is almost 4 now and talks almost nonstop. I think it was around 3-4 months after he turned 2 that he started speaking more. He knew the words and was just waiting it out I guess.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cool_mom*
I didn't speak until I was 10...One day, my mom gave me a bowl of soup. I took one taste, and I told her that it was cold. Mom was shocked and asked me why I didn't speak earlier. I told her that there wasn't anything worth saying before then. :LOL

Are you serious, or just poking fun??? Really!









My dh didn't speak until he was about 3. He was raised bilingual, which often has an effect on speech. He started talking in full sentences and it was a pretty abrupt beginning. Not overnight, but it was within a few weeks that he went from pointing for something to verbally asking for it. When he started speaking, as my SIL once told me (well... not me because I don't speak Armenian or Turkish... translated through my husband) he was speaking both languages and was fully comprehensible from the beginning. None of this babbling business.

It sounds like with signing to help her out, your dd is able to get her point across. Good for her!!







I'm sure she'll start speaking when she's ready and you'll be surprised by how well she speaks.


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

My DS didn’t really start talking (beyond a single word here and there) until 2 1/4- 1/2 or so. Now he is 3.2 and yaps NON STOP. :LOL He has a huge vocabulary now with some very impressive words and has no problem at all speaking in paragraphs/conversations. He sings, tells stories, jokes around, etc. I was a little worried at one point but he has caught up and them some.


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## movingon (Mar 25, 2005)

I vote for the idea to go with your internal system. I had a nephew who didn't talk until about 3, and something is wrong, as even at almost 9, he doesn't speak very well. However, they're not sure what is the cause. They certainly have a whole list of what isn't wrong with him.

However, my m-i-l says my husband didn't say much until 5, and he's clearly intelligent enough. My ds said exactly what was required to get his point across and no more in a most stubborn way until last year (about 4.5) Now, he's 5, and sometimes he wakes up talking and doesn't stop until he falls asleep at night. I went with my gut on him, and not what the books or anyone else had to say about how little he verbalized his needs.

And definitely a pooh-pooh to the ones that think it's the mom's fault for responding to all his needs without "making" him learn to ask. That just puts the parent and child in a "Who's more stubborn than whom?" situation. I know, because I bought that crudola for a couple months, and it didn't "encourage" him to ask at all!









Pyra


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## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

My kids have always seemed to be "late" talkers whatever that is.. but by three they do not stop yapping.. my youngest has been my earliest talker yet.. I can make sense of her at 18 mos! :LOL

My 4 yo is still pretty garbled but hes getting there.. I think all kids just develop at their own speed.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

putting in my 2 cents as a speech & language pathologist. the average baseline looked for in a speech & language evaluation is 50 words by age 2. that said, there is truly huge variability in speech & language development across the board. a main factor in seeking therapy is if she's frustrated by not communicating effectively. frustration is key- if she's not frustrated, it's not an issue for her & that's that.

i do have to say that overall, the developmental norms for boys' speech & language development are a bit later than girls' but not by a lot.

ITA to trust your gut!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
Are you serious, or just poking fun??? Really!











The previous poster (to whom you were referring) was using an old joke. I don't find it funny, either.


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## therdogg (Jun 8, 2004)

My son started really talking at 23 months. Nearly four now, he speaks in full sentences non-stop.

But he does have autism, and I am very grateful that we intervened early or he would have even more difficulties. IMO, "wait and see" does nobody any favors.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *therdogg*
IMO, "wait and see" does nobody any favors.









:


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm reading this thread with interest because my 16mo is not talking (2-3 words maybe) and my first two were definitely talking more by now. I think I understand the advantages of early intervention, but there are also obvious disadvantages. It's really difficult to think about taking my child in for some kind of treatment when he might be just a late developer. He has done pretty much everything later than his big brothers.

Is it just me? I feel really torn because obviously I don't want to set him up for more problems later by not having him evaluated, but that is just NOT my parenting style so far, at all. What kind of "larger problems" could a child have from not getting speech therapy at ONE year old?


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cool_mom*
I didn't speak until I was 10...One day, my mom gave me a bowl of soup. I took one taste, and I told her that it was cold. Mom was shocked and asked me why I didn't speak earlier. I told her that there wasn't anything worth saying before then. :LOL

That's the tale they tell about Einstein.

Ds1 didn't talk much at all until 3yo. At 2yo I don't think he had any words whatsoever. By 2.5yo, I think he had a couple. By 3yo, he was talking, but could not be understood by most people.

We had numerous speech evaluations, hearing test, etc. No one could figure out why he wasn't talking. They couldn't find anything "wrong" with him, but insisted that something was wrong if he wasn't talking at 2.5yo. We decided to enroll him in preschool, as that was the only thing that all the experts could agree on that might be beneficial. Of course, by the time school started (he was almost 3.5yo) he was talking fairly well, but still some problems with grammar and pronunciation.

He is now 4yo, and I'd say he is almost totally caught up. He has trouble with back of the throat sounds, like "k," "g," and "ng." However, we found out he has incredibly huge tonsils, and they are obviously impeding the way his tongue moves and forms sounds. Of course, even though we saw our pediatrician, a hearing specialist, a developmental specialist, and 4 different speech therapists, no one looked at his tonsils until I asked them to.

I do disagree that "wait and see" is never of benefit. I really am not a believer that every kid who isn't talking by age 2yo needs to be in speech therapy. If you have the means, then no problem going to get them checked. But just be aware that there are a lot of speech therapists who are very quick to diagnose, often incorrectly, and find that a problem exists simply because it doesn't match up with what their manual says. I'm not bashing all speech therapists, but it's kind of the same as the way so many peds will automatically give you a script for antibiotics when an ear infection may heal itself.

I don't think I'm being very clear - I'm being pressured by dh to walk out the door for dinner! Definitely get her checked, go with your gut, do your own research, and don't blindly accept what the "experts" have to say. If you question and challenge them enough, you will be able to sort out the ones who know what they are talking about vs. the ones who are just reading the manual. Heck, anyone with a baby book can do that!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *benjalo*
I'm reading this thread with interest because my 16mo is not talking (2-3 words maybe) and my first two were definitely talking more by now. I think I understand the advantages of early intervention, but there are also obvious disadvantages. It's really difficult to think about taking my child in for some kind of treatment when he might be just a late developer. He has done pretty much everything later than his big brothers.

Is it just me? I feel really torn because obviously I don't want to set him up for more problems later by not having him evaluated, but that is just NOT my parenting style so far, at all. What kind of "larger problems" could a child have from not getting speech therapy at ONE year old?


Does it offend your sense of pride or something? I don't get why parents wouldn't want to know exactly what's going on. It doesn't necessarily mean "speech therapy" at this point....... but it's DEFINITELY in your best interest to get your son's hearing checked ASAP.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Um, no, it is not about pride that I don't want my son to be labeled and treated with unnecessary therapies. It hurts my feelings to be even asked that. (Do you think I would say, oh yea, my son needs help but I'll neglect him because I'm too proud?) As I said above, it's not my parenting style to seek professional help at the first sign of my child taking an unusual developmental course.

Getting his hearing checked is obviously a good idea - that's done with all my children regardless. I was referring to speech therapy.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

My daughter was talking at 10 months. One evening night while she was in bed sleeping (I was a single mom - we shared the bed) when I went to bed, I started to cry. I had a HORRIBLE day. Well, I woke her up. She rolled over, and looked me straight in the eye. She was by the way, 10 months. Anyhow, she grabbed my face, looked into my eyes, rubbed my cheek and said "Oh... Mommy," then she began to cry. It may not be a "real sentence," but I consider it one. Now while I realize my daughter would be considered to be an early talker, if my child weren't speaking well and I was at ALL worried, I would get my child checked. If my child couldn't use or say words at nearly 2 years of age, I would surely have my child checked, just to be safe.









As far as speaking, the early childhood developmental center where I used to work (I did accounting) suggested to parents WHENEVER in doubt, get your child evaluated. Sometimes, a child is fine and it really sets the parents at ease. Sometimes, there is an issue, and the earlier it is caught, the better it is for the child.

My ex's son was barely speaking by age two. And the words he did speak were not easily understood. He also had issues with diarrhea. It turned out he had Chron's Disease, and this was the cause of his mild developmental delay.


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## SagMom (Jan 15, 2002)

Benjalo, I think I understand where you're coming from. I usually take a "wait and see" stance with myself as well as with my kids. This stems from my general belief that nature knows what it's doing.

This would not prevent me from seeking help if I thought there was a problem, of course, but over the years, I've been told by doctors and educators that there was something wrong with my child when nothing was, and I've been told they were perfectly fine when there *was* a problem. I've learned to trust my gut. Also, even if a diagnosis is agreed upon, often the treatment options are up for discussion. It's all opinion and recommendations--it's not an exact science where there's one right answer. And yes, a speech therapist may have specialized knowledge and experience, but you still know your own child better and you have to do what you think will be best for them.


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## ejsmommy (May 14, 2004)

Wow, I'm thrilled with all the responses...thanks so much mamas.
I think I understand where everyone is coming from and what they think.
Our ped. did say to wait till the 2 year check up to begin any evaluation etc.

My gut says that there is nothing wrong, and she is hardly ever frustrated because she can definitely get her point across almost every time.

But I have to admit hearing about tight frenulums and large tonsils has me now thinking that maybe I'm missing something...

I'm not opposed to evaluations, so if that's the road we go I will pursue it.

Dd's situations actually is most similar to the mom of the advanced child.
Dd makes the some DadadadDa sounds a lot. I'm not saying dd is advanced but she is a bright STRONG-WILLED little girl.

Thanks so much to everyone!!!


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

DD1 is/was a late talker as well. We have never had her evaluated, as my "gut" told/tells me that she fine, just progressing at a slower rate. She did everyone slower, sit up, crawl, walk, throw temper tantrums, everything except for grow. She has always grown super fast, and is easily the size of a 5 or 6 year old at age 3. My mom says that if they put so much effort into one area (in her case physical growth), other areas lag a little behind. She has always caught up on everything so far (motor skills, language etc), just reached milestones at a later age.

For us, the key thing is that her speech is getting progressively clearer and she is talking more and more. We see improvement every day, so while she doens't talk as well as other 3-year olds, she is talking more and clearer all the time. She correctly identify's colors, knows thousands or words, can count well, recognize letters. Her language is still more immature than other 3-year olds in that she can't tell a story yet or speak more complicated ideas, but she can tell us what she wants/needs, how she feels, what she sees, describe things, etc.

The other thing, from my (albeit limited) experience the children I have known who have been early talkers, ahead in the language department had mothers (most cases, I don't really know the fathers) who talked A LOT. Dh and I are both pretty quiet and in our case, she just heard less speech


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

My gut says that there is nothing wrong, and she is hardly ever frustrated because she can definitely get her point across almost every time.
That's exactly how my ds was. I don't think the tonsils affected the age at which he spoke, but they definitely seem to be affecting his clarify of speech.


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## blissful_maia (Feb 17, 2005)

I'm just wondering. With all this talk about late and early talking, what is average. Like what is expected from a child at 18 months? 2? 3? JUst curious, so I have something to compare to make judgements like "late" and "early".


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsMoe*
My daughter was talking at 10 months. One evening night while she was in bed sleeping (I was a single mom - we shared the bed) when I went to bed, I started to cry. I had a HORRIBLE day. Well, I woke her up. She rolled over, and looked me straight in the eye. She was by the way, 10 months. Anyhow, she grabbed my face, looked into my eyes, rubbed my cheek and said "Oh... Mommy," then she began to cry. It may not be a "real sentence," but I consider it one.

Not meaning to be snarky, but how is this relevant to a thread about late-talkers? Your daughter spoke early. Good for her. But I'm unsure of why you're sharing it in this particular thread.









It reminds me of when someone posts a question about their child's development, looking for reassurance, and people instead post about what advanced things their kids did at that age. It doesn't make anyone feel good, except for the person contributing it.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blissful_maia*
I'm just wondering. With all this talk about late and early talking, what is average. Like what is expected from a child at 18 months? 2? 3? JUst curious, so I have something to compare to make judgements like "late" and "early".

*average* is 5-15 words at 18 months & 50 words at age 2, starting to put them together into simple phrases. Not sure about age 3.


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## edamommy (Apr 6, 2004)

My ds is only 27 months but he didn't start talking until 20+ months. Really only a handful of hardly understandable words up until then. THEN BAM he was talking in full sentences and he's a verbal mastermind now! No worries mama!


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby*
I do disagree that "wait and see" is never of benefit. I really am not a believer that every kid who isn't talking by age 2yo needs to be in speech therapy.

I would heartily 2nd that. I did not have my son evaluated (other than to check hearing, just to be sure) for speech delay. I _knew_ nothing was "wrong" and I was very concerned that if I took him to be evaluated a well-meaning person would slap a label on him that would be incorrect. I knew my son was 'different' than a lot of kids, but I also knew that he was almost a carbon copy of my dh. (his development anyway) I also knew my son would pick up on people thinking something was wrong with him and I knew that would affect him far longer than any label ever could. So, I went with gut instinct and just learned everything I could so I could make sure he wasn't displaying symptoms that needed to be evaluated.

At 2, he had no words that I can recall. I didn't even hear "mama" until a few months ago. A few weeks before his 3rd birthday he seemed to begin to be interested in verbal communication, almsot exactly when my dh started. (He wrote the alphabet long before he said it. lol) The verbal development was pretty slow at first. One of the first times he spoke in public it was to read a sign on the wall of the shoe store to us (Little Feet), just like my dh's first words in public were reading the 'emergency' sign in front of his mom's family. Within the last few weeks he has suddenly ramped up his verbal development as he is learning to read. He just needed to have a dang good reason to talk I guess :LOL.

A book that really explains my dh and my son's development and thinking style (and mine to some degree), beyond just verbal development, is Upside Down Brilliance; the visual-spatial learner that also has a website here


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z*
I did not have my son evaluated (other than to check hearing, just to be sure) for speech delay. I _knew_ nothing was "wrong" and I was very concerned that if I took him to be evaluated a well-meaning person would slap a label on him that would be incorrect. I knew my son was 'different' than a lot of kids, but I also knew that he was almost a carbon copy of my dh. (his development anyway) I also knew my son would pick up on people thinking something was wrong with him and I knew that would affect him far longer than any label ever could.

Wow, that sounds like us! My late-talker is just like my husband was, in terms of personality and quirks. Well, dh didn't talk late, but he was also a perfectionist and extremely cautious as a child. And we didn't do an eval for the same reasons. Besides the fact that our gut was telling us that nothing was wrong, ds acted really really different with other people. He's an introvert, cautious in general and he's not a performer. He tends to hide parts of himself around strangers. So, he could make letter sounds at home, because I "tested" him to see if he was having a problem making those sounds. But when I took him to our really nice ped, he'd just stare at the man's tie and act all inhibited. I was nervous about someone getting the wrong idea about him, based on how he acted with other people, and then giving him a label that didn't fit; labels are really in abundance these days.

Hey, I have that book you reference. I only got it in the last year, however, when I knew more about my son's learning style, interests and tendencies. I only say that, because it wouldn't have helped me at the late-talking stage. But it sort of fit all the puzzle pieces together after the fact, after he developed more into a child. It's a great book, however, and there's a questionnaire on her website for anyone who is interested.

Now, I did have, "the Einstein Syndrome: Late talking children". That book was slightly controversial, because there was concern that parents of children who did need help would ignore their gut and convince themselves that their child was Einstein (or so some reviewers said). I think the author, Thomas Sowell, has a website somewhere. Anyway, the big things that I remember from that book were: proficiency with advanced puzzles, interest in how things work (and come apart) and having multiple close family members in highly technical, musical or math-related fields. The book was more along the lines of reassurance when you have a child with good hearing and no signs of autism or PDD, only the absence of speech.

Again, the big things for me that I noticed were an abundance of eye contact, the ability to understand what we were saying (i.e. receptive speech), animated babbling (voice goes up and down), and a willingness to communicate through babbling, grunting or pointing.

Good luck!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobica*
*average* is 5-15 words at 18 months & 50 words at age 2, starting to put them together into simple phrases. Not sure about age 3.

Are you sure this is average. Recently I read the "50 words at age 2" not as average, but if the child had not attained that they needed to be evaluated.

This chart cites 5-20 words at 18 months and 150-300 words at 2 years:
http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...elopment.shtml

It's not a big deal for most kids but it might effect some.

As for three year olds (36 months) it said:

Quote:

Use pronouns I, you, me correctly
Is using some plurals and past tenses
Knows at least three prepositions, usually in, on, under
Knows chief parts of body and should be able to indicate these if not name
Handles three word sentences easily
Has in the neighborhood of 900-1000 words
About 90% of what child says should be intelligible
Verbs begin to predominate
Understands most simple questions dealing with his environment and activities
Relates his experiences so that they can be followed with reason
Able to reason out such questions as "what must you do when you are sleepy, hungry, cool, or thirsty?"
Should be able to give his sex, name, age
Should not be expected to answer all questions even though he understands what is expected


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField*
Besides the fact that our gut was telling us that nothing was wrong, ds acted really really different with other people. He's an introvert, cautious in general and he's not a performer. He tends to hide parts of himself around strangers. So, he could make letter sounds at home, because I "tested" him to see if he was having a problem making those sounds. But when I took him to our really nice ped, he'd just stare at the man's tie and act all inhibited. I was nervous about someone getting the wrong idea about him, based on how he acted with other people, and then giving him a label that didn't fit; labels are really in abundance these days.

My turn to quote you. :LOL I had exactly the same experience. It even took a while for ds to warm up to Grandma & Grandpa, who he sees fairly often.

Quote:

Anyway, the big things that I remember from that book were: proficiency with advanced puzzles, interest in how things work (and come apart) and having multiple close family members in highly technical, musical or math-related fields. The book was more along the lines of reassurance when you have a child with good hearing and no signs of autism or PDD, only the absence of speech.
When I read the thing about family members being in those fields, Zach and I laughed, because we couldn't think of anybody in either of our families that wasn't in one of those fields (except my mom, who is talented, but never had the education...she was a SAHM who married right out of high school). In our families we have several engineers, a few drs & nurses, professional operas singers, professional organists/pianists, a CPA, and dh is a computer scientist (who does musical theater, writes music, minored in math & psychology, and is an artist). Everybody in both families plays an instrument, dances (ballet, jazz) and/or sings, both as amatuers and professionals. He was doing 60 peice puzzles by himself at 2.5 or so, and only had problems with bigger puzzles because we couldn't find any with big enough pieces. (although he will do 100 piece puzzles, but we help by turning over the peices and sorting them a bit for him).

He was also very visually oriented and could draw happy faces by 18 months, and is now drawing people...the bodies look a bit off, but he compeletly skipped stick figures and went immediatly to trying more realistic bodies. He also draws a lot of maps. He can't say his name clearly yet, but can write it out, and he appears to understand math and can do computer games that require being able to add and subtract numbers, although you can't get him to respond verbally to math questions yet. He also responds to music very strongly, sings, has good rhythm, and will draw the staff with notes on it...not perfect, but you can tell what it is.

A very uneven development is typical of these kids, and it is certainly true of this one. A few weeks after he started speaking, we realized the reason we could understand almost none of it was that he started speaking in sentances, just ran them together really fast so it came out a jumble of sounds. We had to get him to slow down until we could catch the noun to understand what he was saying. lol.

He has some sensory issues, but they are exactly what dh and I deal with, so we have learned coping strategies just by living, so we don't really feel like we need help with them. (if he hates the shoes, we don't buy them, if the tag in his shirt is making him crazy, we rip it out, and I can't stand the feel of a lot of clothes, so I never buy them in the first place. If he doesn't want to eat the food I made, no biggie...I refuse to punish him for not liking something...I will just present it in a different form to see if it is a texture thing)

That got a lot longer than I intended. He is busy building something and I had more time than I thought. :LOL


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

A few weeks after he started speaking, we realized the reason we could understand almost none of it was that he started speaking in sentances, just ran them together really fast so it came out a jumble of sounds.
Yep, that's exactly what happened with my ds too!


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z*

That got a lot longer than I intended. He is busy building something and I had more time than I thought. :LOL

Wow! Our kids sound SO much alike!! I got a kick out of the building thing, because mine gets immersed in stuff like that and then we don't hear from him for a while. :LOL He also has some sensory issues, although they are a bit less now. He still is very sensitive in general to noise and texture. He doesn't eat any mixed up food. He was also doing 60 piece puzzles at about 2.5, actually I think it might have been a bit later. I know he had mastered some 49 piece Thomas the Tank Engine puzzles the month before he turned 2 1/2. And he did 100 piece puzzles at 3ish, although he seems to have lost interest in the last 6 months. He didn't draw as early as your son, but he draws very detailed, mechanical sorts of things. He taught himself to write shortly after age 3.

Our family was not as clear-cut as yours, mostly due to education (i.e. lack of) in the older generations. FIL dropped out of school before high school, but he ended up being a financial manager; he loves numbers and is great with them. My Dad also dropped out of school, but he can fix anything; he's a mechanic. My sister is similar in that she's very good at understanding mechanical things and fixing them without prior knowledge. My dh is a computer scientist. My SIL plays lots of instruments.

It's a good book (Sowell's book), but you might be past that point, since you know your child turned out fine. But it was an interesting read, for all the anecdotes and everything. If your library has it, you might enjoy it.

The visual-spatial book has been fantastic, once I figured out that it was ds's learning type. When I read that vs learners learn in an unconventional order and seem to take learning leaps, I reflected back on how that was true in so many areas for ds, even walking (he never cruised or took steps; he just walked one day). With the speech, I think that he was working it out in his head first before doing it. He doesn't do trial-and-error very much; he likes to be able to do things all at once. Once he did start speaking, he caught up in a few months time. I think that fit with the visual-spatial style of waiting and then doing it all at once.

Sorry to sidetrack so much.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField*
With the speech, I think that he was working it out in his head first before doing it. He doesn't do trial-and-error very much; he likes to be able to do things all at once.

We are really sidetracking this discussion







: but I am going to do it one more time.

This also really describes my son. He often won't attempt things for quite a while, but when he does, it is like he has been doing it all along. I have often felt like he is working it out in his head first before doing it.

I guess I am really stoked because I just don't run into many people with a child in the same age range with such similar characteristics.

Oh..and I put my dad in the 'engineer' category, although he doesn't have that education. He is a farmer by trade, but he designs and builds his own equipment from scratch and can fix everything. (including taking apart two trucks to make one truck that works, combines, road graders, building cars from scraps, and designing specific use equipment that doesn't exist anyplace else). He often finds very unique solutions to problems.

The food mixing thing...dh and I are both like that. When dh was a child, he went as far as using a different eating utensil for each food on his plate. Neither of us like our food to touch. It has only been as an adult that I am able to start tolerating casseroles...and then only if I make them. My dh still won't put the dessert on his dinner plate...he has to have a new plate and fork for dessert, but grew out of the 4 forks a meal thing in childhood.


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

i agree w/the others who said go w/your gut. i do think if your dd has good receptive language (the fact that she signs and communicates physically illustrates that), that chances are there's going to be a massive verbal explosion sometime in the next few months. that said, if you feel there might be something wrong, earlier is better than later in getting assistance.

my ds had his verbal explosion at about 22-23 months, on the later side of normal. he is 25 months now and speaking in sentences. chances are, your dd is fine, but like i and others said, don't hesitate in getting an evaluation if your gut tells you to.

good luck.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *benjalo*
Um, no, it is not about pride that I don't want my son to be labeled and treated with unnecessary therapies. It hurts my feelings to be even asked that. (Do you think I would say, oh yea, my son needs help but I'll neglect him because I'm too proud?) As I said above, it's not my parenting style to seek professional help at the first sign of my child taking an unusual developmental course.

Getting his hearing checked is obviously a good idea - that's done with all my children regardless. I was referring to speech therapy.


I'm sorry I offended you. Getting speech therapy isn't about putting a "label" on your son (especially if you get help outside the school system); it's about getting him the help he potentially needs. My son (who is almost 3) loves speech therapy and I can tell he thinks that it is helping him. I don't feel like we/they have put a label on him. We have decreased his frustration level greatly.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

A & A, I don't want to put words in other people's mouths, but let me tell you what my feelings are with speech therapy.

I totally agree that it is appropriate and helpful for most kids. I suspect that later down the road we will be in speech therapy for my ds because I am wondering if he has a bit of a lisp. (which several family members have).

However, I don't think talking late is an automatic ticket into "you must get speech therapy". It isn't about pride, or labels, it is about meeting that specific child's needs. My child was just on a different developmental path than a lot of other kids, but just because it is different, does not make it wrong for him. Speech therapy would not have been enjoyable or productive for my child because his brain wasn't wired to begin speaking yet. It would have been an exercise in frustration.

Taking him to speech therapy would be similar to saying he is too bowlegged, so let's put braces on him to help his legs straighten out. They will eventually straighten out on their own as he grows, but we want to feel like we are doing something now. Meanwhile, people will be treating him like there is something wrong with him and he is very receptive to emotions, so that will harm him much more than having bowlegs for a while. (They used to do this to almost 50% of kids in the 40s-50s, so that is where my example comes from)

I agree that if your instincts are saying 'something isn't quite right' that you need to do everything you can to get your child evaluated, and keep pushing to get him the services he needs to have the best possible outcome. What I think some people forget is the instinct that 'nothing is wrong' is just as valid of an instinct. It should not automatically warrent a accusation of 'being to proud to get help' or that we are in denial. Maybe that is just our life experience.

I had a rant about this on my blog a while ago after one of these kinds of threads. I find it ironic that on a NFL board, where I was expecting to find support for going against the medical norm to have him tested, evaluated, and labeled when my instincts were so strongly in the 'just give him time', but instead I got told over and over again that it 'doesn't hurt anything' and lots of pushing to get him tested. I would have thought that this community would put as high a value on mama's intution as they do in mainstream medicine, at the very least. Somehow, on this subject, you can't have an intution that everything is OK, because no harm can come of treatment. CIO is a valid practice, supported by mainstream medicine and 'no harm' can come of it too, but many here would say that too much emotional harm would result. (and I would agree). I wish people could see that unneccessary treatment for speech delay could also cause emotional harm.


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## umefey (Sep 10, 2004)

I'm a little late to this thread but wanted to chime in anyway.

My DD is two and a half now and doesn't talk much at all. She can say some words and very rarely sentances (for example if she wants food she will point to the fridge and say "Hungee.. Hungeeeeeee!! Fooooooood!!").
Honestly I think it's because she doesn't want to. I've heard her say complete coherent sentances since she was just over a year, however she does it only very very rarely.
Sometimes I get a little worried about it, but I know that she will start being more vocal when it's her time.

Kids go through all sorts of interesting things growing up, don't they? You know your child better than anyone, and if they are responding in all other ways, bright and fantastic I don't think you need wory about anything.. Someone else on this thread allready mentioned Einstien being a super late talker, but it's worth repeating.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z*

What I think some people forget is the instinct that 'nothing is wrong' is just as valid of an instinct.

This is the gist of it, for me. I get gut feelings that something's not right or something's risky, and I act on those. Likewise, I sometimes have the feeling that things are totally OK, even if they're not what I expected.

I'm not sure what the risks of unnecessary speech therapy would be. I guess I just don't see the point of it with an under-2 kid, since SO many toddlers talk around 2 and "catch up" with their peers easily. That's just not a problem to be treated. I'm not even convinced it's a problem if the child's frustrated. If he were frustrated because he couldn't crawl by 9 months, would we seek therapy for that? Obviously, he'll learn soon enough and we parent him through the frustration.

anyway, I'm blabbing.


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

I just want to point out that there is a Special Needs forum here at MDC. Because of that, there are many mamas here who have children who are in many different therapies. We know the risks of not getting early help if there *is* a problem, and that is why there is a higher rate of "it can't hurt to check it out" than many of you would like. I certainly agree that a mama should follow her instincts -- and in fact, I think it's wrong to use services if you don't think your child needs them, because sometimes, there *aren't* enough services to go around if you can't pay for private therapy. When I first came to MDC, I made the assumption that someone who was concerned enough about this issue to post wanted to hear feedback from those of us inside the world of special needs. I've since learned that feedback with a special needs focus is mostly unwelcome outside of the Special Needs forum. For that reason, I don't usually post on threads such as these. But I have grown weary of hearing how so many parents don't "respect" their child's unique development. I'm sure someone will say that I am not being addressed if my child really *does* have issues. That is ridiculous. Who gets to decide which issues should be taken seriously and how severe they must be -- the same people who get to decide who is AP enough to be here? To every person who complains about being pressured to evaluate a child who they think is fine, I invite you to walk on the other side, where many of us couldn't get someone to take our concerns seriously until our children were suffering. I am not pushing anyone toward an evaluation -- I am merely asking that you try to be a little less hateful toward those whose experience has not been has fortunate as your own.


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## cedoreilly (May 21, 2005)

Both my twins are late talkers. THey are almost two and are just starting to take off saying single words. My DS was not saying anything at 18 months and the ped was pushing to get him evaluated by Early Intervention. We were already receiving services for my DD at the time because she is totally deaf in one ear (surpisely, her speech is the better of the two). I talked with the speech person who came for her and we waited until 22 months when he was still not really talking BUT was starting to get really frustrated communicating with us. At that point we got him evaluated and officially recieving services.

I am convinced the reason for their delay is that they had a "twin language" between the two of them. THis is not uncommon for twins and often causes a temporary delay. I would not considered getting my son services if it was not for the fact he was gettting so frustrated (he had daily tantrums on the floor of the kitchen because he could not tell me what he wanted for lunch!!).


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
I am merely asking that you try to be a little less hateful toward those whose experience has not been has fortunate as your own.


















who was hateful? In this thread? I'm sorry mama, I don't think anyone here said it's wrong to get help when you know you need it. I can imagine it's horrid to want help and not be taken seriously.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My dd was 2yo before she said mama she was prolly about 18mo before she started to use even 1 word. She is 4 1/2 now and talks but it is not something that can be understood easily if u do not know her. Sometimes some people can understand it. At first I was worried that she didnt talk much but it seems to run in her dad's family his gramma didnt talk till she was 3yo and her dad was a "slow" talker to but he was tounge tied and had a stuttering problem. It didnt worry me and still dosnt that she dosnt talk "normal" because she is super smart in other ways her problem solving skills and listening skills(when she chooses to listen :LOL ) are phanominal. She does on occasion get frustrated now when we dont understand what she is saying but that dosnt happen often. I went with my instincts telling me not to worry.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
Who gets to decide which issues should be taken seriously and how severe they must be -- the same people who get to decide who is AP enough to be here? To every person who complains about being pressured to evaluate a child who they think is fine, I invite you to walk on the other side, where many of us couldn't get someone to take our concerns seriously until our children were suffering. I am not pushing anyone toward an evaluation -- I am merely asking that you try to be a little less hateful toward those whose experience has not been has fortunate as your own.

I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be a situation where there are special issues as you describe.







But, respectfully, I ask, where has anyone been hateful to you here?

Wrt to the first question posed in the quote above, the parents are the ones who get to decide what issues should be taken seriously. I haven't walked in your shoes, but I'm just not seeing anyone in this thread being hateful or otherwise intolerant of those who do have kids with special needs related to late speech. In my own personal experience and perception only, people seem very quick to suggest a child has serious issues for not following a carbon-copy developmental path straight out of, "What to Expect...". Recently, just as an example, I know that someone suggested a child might have autism, because he didn't like birthday parties; others IRL had apparently already shown concern because of this.

Again, I haven't walked in your shoes and I have great respect for you. But, I can understand some of the "wait and see" suggestions in this thread, because, in the absence of other warning signs, I think the parents know the child best and have instincts regarding whether everything seems Ok or not Ok. I'm not seeing how this translates to intolerance or disrespect of those who have children with special needs.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField*
Not meaning to be snarky, but how is this relevant to a thread about late-talkers? Your daughter spoke early. Good for her. But I'm unsure of why you're sharing it in this particular thread.









It reminds me of when someone posts a question about their child's development, looking for reassurance, and people instead post about what advanced things their kids did at that age. It doesn't make anyone feel good, except for the person contributing it.

I was wondering this too but I think the poster was trying to show the vast difference between children while all being completely normal.

I have seen what you refer to happen but I don't think that's what this poster was doing..I may be completely wrong...I have been following this thread because I have a friend whose child isn't talking much yet at about the same age as the OP...I have lots to share with her now


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z*
I wish people could see that unneccessary treatment for speech delay could also cause emotional harm.


How do you differentiate between unnecessary and necessary treatment?

I'm pretty non-interventionist myself --natural birth, selectively vax, no circ, etc. But my son NEEDED speech therapy. I'm also frustrated with people whose kids have never been to speech therapy tell me that speech therapy is a label, or emotionally damaging, etc., and I see my son loving it every week and asking to go there!!


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## AdoptChina (Dec 7, 2003)

my youngest is a late talker. I have noticed a big difference between 20 mths to now at almost 24 mths, so give your child some time still. My son has several words, sometimes puts 2 together and also signs....but most of it only family understands. I plan on talking to the Dr about it at his 2 yr old check up but Im not really worried.....in our case I just think DS takes things slower.

If you have any concerns I would definitely look into it...


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
How do you differentiate between unnecessary and necessary treatment?

I guess I would say that neccesary treatment is one a child would benefit from, and unneccessary is one that a child would either gain nothing or be harmed by it.

Quote:

I'm also frustrated with people whose kids have never been to speech therapy tell me that speech therapy is a label, or emotionally damaging, etc., and I see my son loving it every week and asking to go there!!
I understand the frustration. I get frustrated when people tell me I am being shortsighted and damaging my son because I haven't had him evaluated. I know the group of kids who would not benefit from help is small and I am glad the special needs moms share their experiences and I apologize if I made them feel angry. It was not my intent.

In fact, I have a great deal of respect for special needs moms. I understand the frustration of special needs parents when they don't get to add to the 'cute things kid's say' threads and have never heard the word "mama". I feel very fortunate that I finally have gotten to hear that word. I have gone to the special needs forums in hopes of some guidence in how to deal with some discipline issues with a non-talking child, since that would be the area with the largest population of moms that have dealt with those issues. Unfortunaly, the times I have gone there, my question has been totally ignored and the fact he isnt talking is what is focused on. I wasn't asking for help with a dx....there is no good way to say that the 'not talking' isn't the problem I am seeking help for, it is how to deal with a particular behavior when he doesn't respond to verbal requests. Where else am I going to ask the question? I have felt very alone because I haven't been able to get help from the more typical developmental parents, because they just talk to their kids, and SN parents were so focused on the not talking that they didn't help me with any strategies for the discipline issue. I am just beginning to be able to feel like the GD suggestions might actually be helpful to me now that he is catching up to the norm.

My son reacts very badly to people asking him to do anything. He clams right up as soon as anybody is around, including grandparents sometimes, even though he knows them very well. Where at home, he is lively and spirited, outside the house, as soon as somebody talks to him he gets super shy and withdraws. Waitresses, clowns, performers, sales clerks, dh's colleages / profs. (many of them with PhDs in Psychology), Drs, nurses, even other people in play groups and other parents and kids we see often and he knows.

We are also low income and on Medicaid. Once you are dx with a 'problem' you lose your power of choice when you are in this system. If somebody dx with with something and I refused treatment, it would be fast tracked through SRS. The services here are understaffed and underfunded. Alhtough it _might_ be fun for him, I seriously doubt it given his personality. I really have to push to help him deal with YMCA classes and often have to hang out during Sunday School for him to feel comfortable and interact with the other kids.

I also just don't feel right getting treatments when it isn't warrented. I am the first to jump on anything I feel isn't right. I have no problems seeking treatment when i feel like it is neccessary. (I am currently experiencing a very medicalized pregnancy...I HATE it, but my instincts tell me it is very neccessary for me.)

I guess this thread really demonstrates how difficult it is for people just to take my word for it that I know my son is fine for this particular issue. What people say here really doesn't bother me...it is what people say to me IRL and in front of ds that makes me really upset. As soon as somebody questions if there is something wrong with him, he gets clingy. I know it affects him. I wish people would just keep their mouths shut if they can't say something nice.


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## anhaga (May 26, 2005)

Speech therapy is the best example of early intervention success that the school systems can offer. Once a child is 3yo they get served in the school system, at least in my state. And its not a label b/c almost everyone graduates. Its such a common thing for kids anymore and even somewhat in the old days. The real danger is an untreated problem where the child gets so angry and frustrated at not being understood. I've had 2 children in speech. One was started in kindie and she stayed in speech for 2 years and you'd never know.

My other child with speech is a different story. We had him evaluated at 27mo because he didn't talk. They gave him a thorough evaluation for physical and cognitive skills, hearing, etc. He had the comprehension of a 4yo and the spoken skills of a 14mo. He had 6 "words" (which were really monosyllables that we knew what stood for; they did not count his 5 animal sounds). He has been in speech for a year and I can actually understand him most of the time now. You know how a mom is supposed to be able to translate for her child? I couldn't do that with him.

He loves speech. He loves his speech teacher. He has some physical issues with his throat she says. I don't completely understand it, but she told us not to pressure him too much because he'll clench his throat and then he can't pronounce anything. There are some other things going on too, physically, with his mouth and tongue. She can help him with that. I can't. My mama-instincts can't solve his speech issues.

Not all kids need speech therapy. And even our child who had the most trouble didn't start therapy until he was 4yo. (logistics mainly, but we weren't that worried until he just wasn't outgrowing it.) Knowledge is power. I was reassured just knowing my son's hearing and comprehension were fine. And when the pieces fell into place, I was grateful for his being able to do speech therapy.


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## kitty waltz (Mar 23, 2005)

Just chiming in here as another special needs mom. I got a bit of advice here a while back to 'wait and see'. Since my instincts said she was fine, I waited and didnt get her evaluated until she was 3. *I really wished I had doubted my gut.* She is learning well now, but we just started on speech therapy and she still can hardly be understood by anyone other than me. But at least she makes herself understood to me verbally now,as well as sign language. This is our slow progress. When I finally decided to get her checked out it took me several months and it wasnt until she was 3 1/4 that she was dx'd autistic. Now I guess she's 3 3/4 and many of the things/ strategies Ive learned about autism have helped immensely, but I really think she could have benefited greatly from an earlier dx and speech therapy.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I guess based on my dd's speach therapy, I can't imagine not trying it.

It was soooooo much fun for her. The therapist NEVER pressured her to speak. Taught her to sign, which she loved and which reduced her frustration levels.

For her, speach therapy involved having a nice, sweet, friendly adult give her 100 percent attention while playing all kinds of fun games with her and bringing her a suitcase full of toys to play with every week.

Why wouldn't you try it and see if it IS frustrating or bad for your child?


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I guess based on my dd's speach therapy, I can't imagine not trying it.

It was soooooo much fun for her. The therapist NEVER pressured her to speak. Taught her to sign, which she loved and which reduced her frustration levels.

For her, speach therapy involved having a nice, sweet, friendly adult give her 100 percent attention while playing all kinds of fun games with her and bringing her a suitcase full of toys to play with every week.

Why wouldn't you try it and see if it IS frustrating or bad for your child?

I know people who have had really positive experiences like you describe. But for my son at 1 or 2, this would have been VERY uncomfortable for him. He's getting better at it now, at 4, but back then, he would have not cooperated. The idea of an adult he doesn't really know trying to give him lots of attention would have upset him; I know that sounds weird. Even with grandparents, it took a long time to warm up. I doubt any well-intentioned professional could have gotten anything meaningful out of him, to be completely honest. What you described, as wonderful as it sounds for most kids, would be upsetting for my toddler back then. That's partly why the "wait and see" approach worked for us, because a "what do we have to lose" eval would have freaked him out. And then I worried that they would misunderstand him. I used to tell our ped about all the other things ds could do, but the fact that ds only blankly stared at him undermined the validity of what I was saying; he couldn't see it so he didn't believe me.


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## faythe (Oct 2, 2003)

An alternative is to do the evaluation yourself. That's what I did with my late talking twins. At 24 months they had very few words, but when I did the eval I realized it was more than I thought, and they scored out of the "needs a professional evaluation" zone. Our local parents center provides the Ages and Stages Questionnaire for free:

http://www.brookespublishing.com/sto...s/bricker-asq/

It's very quick and easy to do. Our parents center says to turn it in to them for scoring, but the scoring is pretty straight forward, imo. There's a sample of the 48mo questionnaire on that web site.

I found doing the questionnaire at home to be the best solution. I didn't want to do a full eval if they didn't need it, for various reasons. I knew the girls were delayed, but this eased my mind (and agreed with our doctor's assessment - behind, but still within the range of normal). They are 4 1/2 now and still a little behind, but have caught up a lot. Their biggest problem now is diction, they have wonderful vocabularies, they just sound like 3yo's.

Anyway, my point is that there is an alternative, and that I have been where you are, wondering if an eval is the right thing to do.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

DS 8 did not start talking until he was 5 y.o. We had his hearing tested at age 2. He had about three sessions of speech therapy as a toddler, but his refusal to cooperate made them suggest psychiatry and Ritalin. We stopped speech therapy. He started using two word phrases at age 5 and by age 6 was fluent. Now at age 8 his speech is slightly garbled but he is very eloquent, talkative, and understandable. He is also very smart, has been reading at an adult level since age 6.

I now have a 20 month old who doesn't really talk. My other 2 were early talkers.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField*
Now, I did have, "the Einstein Syndrome: Late talking children". That book was slightly controversial, because there was concern that parents of children who did need help would ignore their gut and convince themselves that their child was Einstein (or so some reviewers said). I think the author, Thomas Sowell, has a website somewhere. Anyway, the big things that I remember from that book were: proficiency with advanced puzzles, interest in how things work (and come apart) and having multiple close family members in highly technical, musical or math-related fields. The book was more along the lines of reassurance when you have a child with good hearing and no signs of autism or PDD, only the absence of speech.

yup, the idea is that in these otherwise normal but late talking children, the development of analytical function in the brain is so intense that it temporarily usurps the hemisphere used for speech. Later the speech development catches up. With my DS, who as I said above did not talk till age 5 and had basically no intervention, what was key for me is that he had excellent eye contact, was very snuggly, and he did make effort to communicate with grunts, pointing, and made-up sign language. We also taught him sign language which was supposedly a bg no-no. :LOL Also key is how much your child understands. If their understanding of speech is more or less on target, even if their output of speech is not, there is less need to worry.

This topic does get those geared toward inervention in a huff, that's for sure. My mom is a specialist in early child education. It was sheer torment for her that we did not get DS intervention. But as I said, he talks and talks and talks... and talks some more... today.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Leftfield, thank you. You articulated our situation exactly. I know people have great experiences with speech therapy, but it would have been a disaster for us too. I wish we lived close by to eachother...I bet our son's would get along well....just give them a bunch of building supplies. :LOL


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z*
I guess this thread really demonstrates how difficult it is for people just to take my word for it that I know my son is fine for this particular issue.

I take your word for it. Completely. You are the mama and he is your son.

What bothers me about these types of threads is that all of the talk about "overdiagnosing" and parents running to therapies implies that *their* word shouldn't be taken. It says that these nameless people are too gullible to question doctors or that they are too driven to see their child succeed to respect the child's development. By claiming the problem is exaggerated, a problem is created for those who *do* face the problem. When I tell someone new that my son has autism, they say something along the lines of, "Oh, well, that's the latest thing, isn't it?" They don't see or care about the problems. They just think I'm jumping on some perverse bandwagon. It gives them permission to discount the problems.

And regarding your lack of help at the Special Needs forum -- again, I repeat, many of us there know the dangers of *not* getting help because we are living with children who *do* have issues. And in many cases, lack of speech was either the tip of a larger problem, or it was a problem that continued to get worse rather than better. That is our experience, so that is the perspective we can give you. We can't give you insight we don't have. And if you have felt pressured there about getting an evaluation, it may be because our experience also includes acquaintances who didn't get help when they should have, and now they live and cry over that guilt. Again, I'm not doubting you, but if you don't want to hear special needs input, then that isn't the place to ask. With my kids, sometimes discipline issues *are* special needs issues, and sometimes they are not -- when I don't want special needs feedback, I don't ask on the Special Needs forum.

Once again, I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. But the dismissive statements about developmental issues, specialists who work with special needs ("ch-cha-ching"? or was that another thread?), and parents who are "too eager" to head for therapy seem to be much more rampant lately. Or maybe not. Maybe it's just time for me to hide out in the Special Needs forum again.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

TiredX2 said:


> Are you sure this is average. Recently I read the "50 words at age 2" not as average, but if the child had not attained that they needed to be evaluated.
> 
> This chart cites 5-20 words at 18 months and 150-300 words at 2 years:
> http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...elopment.shtmlQUOTE]
> ...


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *benjalo*
I'm not sure what the risks of unnecessary speech therapy would be. I guess I just don't see the point of it with an under-2 kid, since SO many toddlers talk around 2 and "catch up" with their peers easily. That's just not a problem to be treated. I'm not even convinced it's a problem if the child's frustrated. If he were frustrated because he couldn't crawl by 9 months, would we seek therapy for that? Obviously, he'll learn soon enough and we parent him through the frustration.

Under 2, speech therapy is typically provided to children with diagnosed conditions, feeding difficulties, etc. It is not the "norm" to have a child under 2 evaluated & given treatment for language development concerns on their own, KWIM?

Most DO catch up at some point, if that's the only "issue". I understand parenting through the frustration but there's a big difference between 9 months & a 2 year old being frustrated b/c they can't communicate as effectively as they want to.


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