# my spirit has been broken by my 3 year old



## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

I don't know if it's harder because she's three now, or because I have a baby as well... but DD1 has just pushed me to my utter limits lately.

I try to be as gentle as possible with her, and I think I'm pretty patient. I offer lots of choices and try to be fun. None of that seems to be working.

Today's example (one of many): I cannot get her dressed. In anything. Her grandparents are going to be here any minute and they simply cannot take her naked. (They are going to either the library or the playground, neither option is appropriate for nudity, period.) They have to take her out of the house because I have something I must do here. Up against these absolutes, DD1 must get dressed.

So, here I am, in a battle of will with my three year old.

I feel that, since I don't "punish" (we don't do time out or, obviously, spank) I don't have an "ultimatum" I can bust out in these kind of circumstances. "Get dressed or..." or WHAT? Or you aren't going to be allowed to go somewhere fun with your grandparents? Not an option. Or you'll have to go naked? Again, not an option (please don't tell me it is, I do not feel 3 year olds should be nude in public situations). Or I'll take something away? What? that doesn't even fit, it has nothing to do with getting dressed.

Help! Short of forcing her into her clothing, which I don't wish to do, I have NO ideas. I'm basically keeping myself in a time out right now because I'm so frustrated.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Make it fun, funny, silly, relax into the time of her _living in the moment._ Only *now* exists for her. (and try some rescue remedy all around). Maybe dress to go blow bubbles outside and race to the mailbox and pet the dog, eat popcorn outside, do somersaults together. Connect with her desire to have fun and she'll go with you, rather than against you.

Pat


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Make it fun, funny, silly, relax into the time of her _living in the moment._ Only *now* exists for her. (and try some rescue remedy all around). Maybe dress to go blow bubbles outside and race to the mailbox and pet the dog, eat popcorn outside, do somersaults together. Connect with her desire to have fun and she'll go with you, rather than against you.

Pat

Pat, I have already pitched a tent in my livingroom ("let's go camping...") in an attempt to be fun!









I have also worn her pants on my head (let her put them there) and talked up all the many, many joys of going outside. I've asked if she wants to hop like a bunny and bark like a dog. It's all fun and games until we bring up the idea of doing the thing she doesn't want to do again (get dressed, this time). Then we hit a wall.

My fun-o-meter is currently dragging, though... Also, the idea of having to go through this level of calesthenics to get through Every. Single. Thing. Every. Single. Day. has me teetering on the brink right now...


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Will it make any difference when her grandparents are there? Maybe they can entice her to get dressed? Or maybe it will hit her (uh, not literally) that if she gets dressed they can go do something fun?


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparkprincess* 
Will it make any difference when her grandparents are there? Maybe they can entice her to get dressed? Or maybe it will hit her (uh, not literally) that if she gets dressed they can go do something fun?









Grandparents aren't really the "enticing" type... they won't say it out loud, but they will wonder why I'm not just stuffing DD into her clothes.

They are great with her but aren't really on board with some of the more consensual stuff, if you know what I mean.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

What about putting out two outfits and telling her, "_You need to put on this or this. Your choice. If you need my help, I will be in the kitchen._" and just let it go? It lays out the expectations clearly and puts the ball in her court. If she chooses not to get dressed, then the logical consequence of that is not leaving the house.

And I agree, Grandma and Grampa showing up may help speed it along.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

At this age kids really, really feel strongly about getting and keeping control over themselves and their lives. So they will naturally oppose any perceived effort to persuade them or compel them - even if it's illogical (as in, it's something they would like or enjoy).

I try to recognize that a power struggle is brewing and head it off before it develops, because they're so hard to reverse once they are full steam.

You know they do those studies about patients in doctors' offices. They videotape the encounter and then question each person. The patient will say 'I never got to talk, he interrupted me right away, I don't think he heard a thing I said." The doctor will say "The patient talked for at least 20 minutes. I didn't think he'd ever stop. I finally had to interrupt or we would never have been done."

But when they measure the time the patients actually talked, it averages something like 43 seconds before they were interrupted by the doctor and shut down.

When they educated the doctors, they found that if the doc sat there listening and nodding instead of tappiing his foot and interrupting, that the patients always completed what they had to say in under 3 minutes. Always. Then the patient felt satisfied that he was heard, the doctor usually learned something he needed to know, and they could move on to a more recipricol conversation.

I think it's like that with our kids. We pull up in the driveway and dd wants to play in the car. I wait - forever it seems - and then tell her we have to get going. But when I really looked at it, she'd only been playing for about 20 seconds before I forced her to move on. Same thing when I'm trying to get her to put on her shoes, or come to the dinner table, or whatever.

Once I recognized that, I started really listening to her and paying attention to her needs in a way that made her feel satisfied. After all, to a 3 yo finishing playing with your doll is just as important of an agenda as getting dressed for grandma.

So I let her know we need to get dressed because grandma's coming. She resists and says she wants to keep playing with babydoll. I say okay, sure honey, we'll get ready here in just a few minutes. Then I really do give her 3 minutes of time to herself - which is a long time to a child. When I come back in to get her dressed, she's feeling like her needs were met, she was heard, and she's a lot more willing to cooperate with my agenda.

Hope that helps in some way.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
What about putting out two outfits and telling her, "_You need to put on this or this. Your choice. If you need my help, I will be in the kitchen._" and just let it go? It lays out the expectations clearly and puts the ball in her court. If she chooses not to get dressed, then the logical consequence of that is not leaving the house.

Tried that. She ignored the clothes.

Not leaving the house is not an option today, so my hands are tied there.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

My DD is a nudy-butt too. Sometimes I can pursuade her to put on a loose dress with no undies because it's the "closest" to being naked. Sometimes dress up clothes help (hopefully something you don't care about getting torn or dirty). Would she wear one of YOUR t-shirts as a dress?

Have you tried the ol' "can you put this on yourself or do you want mamma to do it for you?" (and not choosing means you do it for her) - not exactly consensual but if you are in an unusual circumstance (pressure from grandparents and getting them out the door so you can do something alone) then you might see this as your "drastic" measure?

good luck - hope you get some more ideas!
peace,
robyn


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Okay, sometimes when there's something I really need to do, in order to do it I need my 3 year old to get dressed/shoes on/other, and I can't get my 3 year old on board no matter how fun or present or patient/slow/on her timetable I try to be, and I'm getting _really_ frustrated, and time is running out, I will say "you know, as soon as you're dressed/whatever you can have a cookie/candy."

I never did that with my oldest two kids. I swore I'd never, ever do that. But I do sometimes now with my littlest. And it has saved us (on many levels) on several occasions. And I even think that doing this once in awhile (not every day) is really not going to ruin her or our overall discipline thing.








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I feel that I must edit to add that bribery is so NOT our normal m.o. around here. It's one of those rarely used emergency measures that we pull out only rarely.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

No ideas, but I found that 3yo + newborn was the hardest I've ever had it as a parent.

What with the screaming, throwing train tracks at me while nursing, the screaming, the hitting - have I mentioned the screaming?Honestly, I could barely stand to be around that kid, he made my life so miserable. It was a sad, sad time but it got better. Especially seven months later when he started preschool and finally had something that was all for him, no baby involved. (Not to say this should necessarily be your solution, but it really helped us.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say, hang in there.


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## astrophe27 (Aug 27, 2007)

I do the option thing with a 3 strikes you are out.

"Here are the choices: You can pick the yellow dress, or the red dress, or mommy picks."

She usually pulls out something out of the blue like "I want to wear the purple dress."

"Purple dress is not a choice. Here are the choices: Yellow dress, red dress, or mommy picks."

"I want to blow bubbles!"

" THIRD time. Here are the choices: yellow, red, or mommy picks."

"Yaaaaahhhhh!"

"Ok, mommy picks yellow. Let's go."

The she usually fusses about not getting to pick and I calmly tell her next time she can choose answer more promptly. This time she did not, we got to three times, and after that mommy picks.

The first time will be a stinker, but as she got used to it she knows. So it isn't even an issue any more, and sometimes she wants me to pick because making a choice in that moment is overwhelming to her.

HTH!
A.


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## Ione (Jul 22, 2002)

I went through something similar with DD. What eventually worked for us (and I still have to use it sometimes now too--still works) was to play being stupid.

I'd get her clothes together and go over to her and say: Time to get you dressed. Let's see, how does this work again? [pick up a pair of pants] Oh, right! This is your shirt. It goes on your head.

She'd laugh and either let me try to put it on her head or correct me. When she laughed, I'd try to put it on her head and then act all confused about why it didn't work. Then she'd correct me. I'd then pretend I didn't believe her. (Big, over the top, "no, can't be that" etc.) Then, she'd have to put it on or let me put it on to convince me.

Repeat with as many articles of clothing as needed. Sometimes I'd be confused about which piece of clothing went where (like above, or socks on ears, etc.). Sometimes I'd get the body parts wrong: hands would get called feet, legs would get called arms.

It would take longer than just getting dressed (it takes about the same amount of time now because we can do a short version--at first we did a full version for all bits, now when I need to use it, usually only one piece of clothing works then she's over the "refusing" phase). But less time than fighting about getting dressed. And, best of all, it became a very fun game for both of us.

Good luck finding something that works for both of you.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

All I can offer is Jedi Mind Control..... "that's not the droid you're looking for.... move along....."

Believe with your whole being that she will go along with you and then approach it.

Seriously, this sometimes works for me, maybe it changes my tone or my appraoch. Anyway, it can't hurt your efforts!


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

My ds doesnt dress himself yet, at age 3, so I just dress him. I really do not give him the "choice" to start with.. i am getting you dressed you are leaving to go have fun with grandma and grandpa, yay!!


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

maybe you have a costume or dress up clothes she could get dressed in?


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Ds isn't a nudist, but he does have strong tastes in clothes. Today he wanted to wear shorts. It was 50 degrees. Shorts were not an option. I told him he could pick out a pair of pants or wear the ones I had brought him. Tantrum ensues. I asked him to just go ahead and wear pants for my sake. It worked. I was dumbfounded.

Other things that have worked have been having his socks attack him in a playful way, and giving him two options, this one or that one. He can't dress himself yet, but I can see myself using the PP option of "you can wear this or mommy can dress you" as we do it when he goes boneless "you can walk or mommy can carry you". It IS giving him a choice after all. Sometimes people need to get dressed!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Three is so, so tough. When my dd was three, I would try all of the above listed. However, I couldn't just dress her. I've always been totally willing to just resort to physically doing something for my dc.

Won't come with me? Okay, I've asked a couple of times, now I'm picking you up.

Don't want to wash your hands? That's okay, I'll help you!

Not getting off the table even though I asked? Let me swing you down.

But when she was three, she could take her clothes right back off. And she absolutely would not be distracted into getting into her carseat. And was way, way too strong for me to make her, even if I wanted to.

So my advice would be to wait until her g-parents get there, then say, "Well, dd, if you want to go to the zoo, you have to have on your clothes." Then wait expectantly. If they can't remember what it was like when their dc was three, it's not your problem!


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
No ideas, but I found that 3yo + newborn was the hardest I've ever had it as a parent.

What with the screaming, throwing train tracks at me while nursing, the screaming, the hitting - have I mentioned the screaming?Honestly, I could barely stand to be around that kid, he made my life so miserable. It was a sad, sad time but it got better. Especially seven months later when he started preschool and finally had something that was all for him, no baby involved. (Not to say this should necessarily be your solution, but it really helped us.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say, hang in there.

I totally agree - Oh, God, the screaming!









Seriously I have no advice. My son will not keep his clothes on either. In the OP's situation I would just force him into his clothes. Once they see that the clothes are on, the grandparents are here, and they're going somewhere FUN, they stop screaming. Maybe that's not the popular thing to do around here but I'm just saying that *sometimes* you just have to get.it.done. Not consentual, I know.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBecks* 
All I can offer is Jedi Mind Control..... "that's not the droid you're looking for.... move along....."

That's not the droid we're looking for.

Move along.

Hey, what just happened?


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tinas3muskateers* 
My ds doesnt dress himself yet, at age 3, so I just dress him. I really do not give him the "choice" to start with.. i am getting you dressed you are leaving to go have fun with grandma and grandpa, yay!!

Yup. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried a lot of them.

But I'm a GD failure today, I guess. I got her dressed. I didn't like it. Neither did she.

I agree with what some of the PPs said -- sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody finds it very fun, though.

I console myself by thinking that if I'd never heard of MDC most of the above suggestions would never even have been on my radar, though. I might be coercive with DD some of the time -- when I don't feel like I have a choice -- but we do manage to find a happy solution *most* of the time.

Sigh. Three is going to be fun, isn't it? She's usually a mellow kid and I'm a mellow mom, but lately we really seem to be butting heads. Maybe I need to do some reading and refocus my efforts.

Man, I was really at the end of my rope today.


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## Greensleeves (Aug 4, 2004)

Another option is to put her to bed in the clothes she will wear the next day.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

nak

i have this problem, though less often now than a few months ago when ds2 was new.

we tried everything listed above and more. the thing that will sometimes work for us is a kitchen timer. i ask ds1 how long he needs to play before he gets dressed. i then put that amount of time on the timer, and also, put today's clothes next to where he's playing so we can start right away when the timer goes off. that way he has some control. often i will also have to read a book to him while i help him dress, too.

g/l

An aside:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama*
No ideas, but I found that 3yo + newborn was the hardest I've ever had it as a parent.

thanks for writing that... gives me hope


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## lachingona1 (May 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ione* 
I went through something similar with DD. What eventually worked for us (and I still have to use it sometimes now too--still works) was to play being stupid.

I'd get her clothes together and go over to her and say: Time to get you dressed. Let's see, how does this work again? [pick up a pair of pants] Oh, right! This is your shirt. It goes on your head.

She'd laugh and either let me try to put it on her head or correct me. When she laughed, I'd try to put it on her head and then act all confused about why it didn't work. Then she'd correct me. I'd then pretend I didn't believe her. (Big, over the top, "no, can't be that" etc.) Then, she'd have to put it on or let me put it on to convince me.

Repeat with as many articles of clothing as needed. Sometimes I'd be confused about which piece of clothing went where (like above, or socks on ears, etc.). Sometimes I'd get the body parts wrong: hands would get called feet, legs would get called arms.

It would take longer than just getting dressed (it takes about the same amount of time now because we can do a short version--at first we did a full version for all bits, now when I need to use it, usually only one piece of clothing works then she's over the "refusing" phase). But less time than fighting about getting dressed. And, best of all, it became a very fun game for both of us.


I will definitely have to do that! I have a three y/o and an 8 week old. Getting dressed can be a night mare.


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## lilsishomemade (Feb 12, 2005)

When mine are in that mood where they just don't want to, I pick out two outfits, tell them they need to get dressed in x amount of time or I'll help them, then set a timer. And walk away. Even if they ignore them, I don't mess with them until the timer goes off. Then, I say, "Oh! you must need some help!" and dress them. Sometimes when I set the timer they act like it's a race. But, at least, it gives them a chance to do it themselves and if they still haven't done it, well, it needs to be done so I do it.


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## Swandira (Jun 26, 2005)

Sometimes three-year-olds need to be babied, and babies have to be dressed by others when they can't be naked. Sorry it was no fun! But you did the right thing, IMO. If it helps, my firstborn was three when his little sister was born, and he did some regressive behavior at first too. I'm pretty sure it's normal, and it's going to go away. My son is four and a half now, and I can't remember the last time I personally dressed him (other than helping him tie his shoelaces.)

Nealy
mama to Thales, 4 1/2, and Lydia, 18 months


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## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
No ideas, but I found that 3yo + newborn was the hardest I've ever had it as a parent.

What with the screaming, throwing train tracks at me while nursing, the screaming, the hitting - have I mentioned the screaming?Honestly, I could barely stand to be around that kid, he made my life so miserable. It was a sad, sad time but it got better. Especially seven months later when he started preschool and finally had something that was all for him, no baby involved. (Not to say this should necessarily be your solution, but it really helped us.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say, hang in there.

Add me to THAT list. I cried almost as much as my child did. I felt like a rotten parent for a while there. It got better, but for a while, it just sucked right out loud.

The thing I tried to remember was that her world had gone crazy and that she needed as much consistency from me as I could possibly muster, including consistent limits.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

It's incredibly helpful to learn that other parents have had similar difficulties with the 3yo/new baby combo.

She's really taken well to her little sister -- thus far, she's been nothing short of lovely to her.

However, I think the fact that she's no longer the precise epicenter of the universe is beginning to take a toll on her general behavior. Poor kid.









Oh, heck. Poor me!


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

I have a two year old whose mantra seems to be, "dress up with no undies or nakey or nothing!" Rock on, sister!

When I need to get her dressed and she has to wear undies, I just put her clothes at the bottom of the stairs, get myself all ready and say to her, "here we go!" and literally dress her on the way out the door. I find that the less attention and tension I draw to the situation, the easier it is to get her to consent to clothing.


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

You could always do this one

"Dont you dare put those clothes on" and she will get dressed beacuse you told her not to lol


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## zzwhitejd (Jul 5, 2005)

Oh yeah... the 3yr old and baby... soooo there. Worst tantrum ever this morning. Bad couple of days all around, Dh away on a business trip... This thread was something I needed. Thank you.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Just wanted to add, Chinakat, that lately my dd2 has explained to me that she does not like it when I cringe. It is a vicious circle, that has always always been there with her, but at last, I can see it. When I ask something, she says no, then looks at me and sees that I am not happy. She does not like me being unhappy. Really not. So, her solution is to run away from unhappy mom. Of course, another solution would be making mom happy by complying, but the urge to run away from unhappy mom is so strong it takes precedence on anything else... So, it is difficult... I need to really really keep positive attitude not just outside, inside too. Keep thinking about how much I love her and the rest is not important. Our issue is getting ready for bed. She does not like it and I know that... so... it is important for us to get a nice game going, and make getting ready for bed part of the game... but it has to be a real game that she is engrossed into, not a little trick like putting trousers on your head...ktmama idea about dressing on the stairs sounds fun! one item on each stair..need to try that on a difficult morning


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
It's incredibly helpful to learn that other parents have had similar difficulties with the 3yo/new baby combo.

She's really taken well to her little sister -- thus far, she's been nothing short of lovely to her.

However, I think the fact that she's no longer the precise epicenter of the universe is beginning to take a toll on her general behavior. Poor kid.









Oh, heck. Poor me!









the SMAE thing is happening in our home. dd1 is absolutely a DOLL to dd2, loves her wants to snuggle her kiss her hug her hold her, sing to her, etc.
but no longer being the center of ALL attention, having to wait for things, being told no, etc are really really hard for her and so she acts out for attention.
and omg the noise and bouncing! its like i went from having such a rad calm lil kid to a ball with noise! she hasnt sat still other than sleeping for a few weeks now. and NEVER stops talking.
or telling me i am evil and stupid and mean.







: having a three year old and a newborn is harder than i EVER imagined!


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## SwissMama (Sep 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried a lot of them.

But I'm a GD failure today, I guess. I got her dressed. I didn't like it. Neither did she.

I agree with what some of the PPs said -- sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody finds it very fun, though.

I console myself by thinking that if I'd never heard of MDC most of the above suggestions would never even have been on my radar, though. I might be coercive with DD some of the time -- when I don't feel like I have a choice -- but we do manage to find a happy solution *most* of the time.

Sigh. Three is going to be fun, isn't it? She's usually a mellow kid and I'm a mellow mom, but lately we really seem to be butting heads. Maybe I need to do some reading and refocus my efforts.

Man, I was really at the end of my rope today.

You are NOT a failure.

I am a huge Alfie fan - don't do punishment/reward/etc. The whole premise is to work together to accomplish something. Give choices, etc. Here was a situation where she needed to do something - she needs to have clothes on. Period. And since we are not really supposed to just boss our kids around to constantly tell them what we want to do, we have to also look at the flip side of that - she is also not the sole boss. You work together. In this situation, where she refused to work with you, you don't have much of a choice. You have to do what you have to do. You showed her (guided her) that its simply not an option in life to stay naked. Keep on keeping on with your resolve to parent the way you have been and show her all the wonderful choices she gets to make - even if one of them is not to stay naked every day all day.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ione* 
I'd get her clothes together and go over to her and say: Time to get you dressed. Let's see, how does this work again? [pick up a pair of pants] Oh, right! This is your shirt. It goes on your head.

She'd laugh and either let me try to put it on her head or correct me. When she laughed, I'd try to put it on her head and then act all confused about why it didn't work. Then she'd correct me. I'd then pretend I didn't believe her. (Big, over the top, "no, can't be that" etc.) Then, she'd have to put it on or let me put it on to convince me.

I have used an approach much like this and it's worked really well. I also have used the kitchen timer method, but DS doesn't like the sound of the alarm, so I bought an old-timey 3-minute hourglass, with the sand. It's a way he can visually see that time is passing and he pretty much always cooperates at the end of it.


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## moneeleann (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SwissMama* 
You are NOT a failure.

I am a huge Alfie fan - don't do punishment/reward/etc. The whole premise is to work together to accomplish something. Give choices, etc. Here was a situation where she needed to do something - she needs to have clothes on. Period. And since we are not really supposed to just boss our kids around to constantly tell them what we want to do, we have to also look at the flip side of that - she is also not the sole boss. You work together. In this situation, where she refused to work with you, you don't have much of a choice. You have to do what you have to do. You showed her (guided her) that its simply not an option in life to stay naked. Keep on keeping on with your resolve to parent the way you have been and show her all the wonderful choices she gets to make - even if one of them is not to stay naked every day all day.

I agree with this. Children need freedom to be themselves, as well as freedom to express themselves. However, they also need to learn to live in the world outside. There are times when, like it or not, we have to force them to comply. I think they will learn, eventually, that there are certain times when not everything is debatable.


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Can she go to bed in her clothes the night before? Just an idea. We've done this once or twice and it worked like a charm!

Other times I use the 5 steps and then "help" DS.

Usually, we just have our CL talk and we can work out a solution...maybe more naked time after bath later...maybe set the timer for another few minutes and then get dressed. DS is great about this now that he knows we really mean it when we say we will keep our part of the agreement. Both our needs are met!

good luck


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried a lot of them.

But I'm a GD failure today, I guess. I got her dressed. I didn't like it. Neither did she.

I agree with what some of the PPs said -- sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Nobody finds it very fun, though.

I console myself by thinking that if I'd never heard of MDC most of the above suggestions would never even have been on my radar, though. I might be coercive with DD some of the time -- when I don't feel like I have a choice -- but we do manage to find a happy solution *most* of the time.

Sigh. Three is going to be fun, isn't it? She's usually a mellow kid and I'm a mellow mom, but lately we really seem to be butting heads. Maybe I need to do some reading and refocus my efforts.

Man, I was really at the end of my rope today.

See, I really, really don't consider this a GD failure. A CL "failure"? I guess, because she was not agreeable to being dressed. But you weren't agreeable to her being naked, and you were at a stalemate. Did you shame her? Punish her for not wanting to get dressed? Or did you empathize with her and validate her feelings, explain the situation and then get her dressed as quicky as possible? Cause that seems pretty GD to me.







Not CL, but within the GD spectrum for many of us.

Then again, "making" my kids do stuff sometimes when I run out of ideas to make things agreeable and they are unable/unwilling to come up with ideas of their own is not un-GD to me. I'm clearly not completely into CL.

I think you need to cut yourself some slack. Sorry it was a stressful situation, but I wouldnt' say you're a failure in any sense.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

You know, I would never in a million years describe myself as CL... I *do* try to come up with consensual solutions to problems if I can (thank you MDC for introducing the concept to me), but I am totally okay with sometimes saying "because I'm the mom and I said so", setting finite boundaries about things that are not okay, etc.

Nonetheless, I am really not big on _physically_ forcing DD to do stuff. The whole "I am big and you are small so I can MAKE you do this" power dynamic feels almost as bad to me as spanking. I don't mean picking DD up and redirecting her somewhere else, I mean the kind of thing where you make the child do something while she is strongly verbally and physically protesting. That doesn't feel gentle in any way to me.

So, that's an area I really do try to work on. Not to say I've never put an unhappy kid into a carseat or changed a protesting baby's diaper or hauled a crying kid home from the playground... but IF I can avoid the physical coercion I really prefer to, providing I have the time to do so and I'm not totally inconveniencing others around us.

Still, I have NOWHERE NEAR the patience some of the mamas here have for negotiating mutually agreeable solutions!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
but IF I can avoid the physical coercion I really prefer to, providing I have the time to do so and I'm not totally inconveniencing others around us.

I still think from your OP that you did this, based on what you described about trying to make it a game, explaining to her, etc. etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying, "hurray, you held your kid down and stuffed her into her clothes!" - I just think sometimes we're WAY harder on ourselves than we need to be when we don't meet our ideals, and that when a child is respected and their needs and desires considered the vast majority of the time, that on the occasion when they're compelled to do something (intellectually or physically...and I'm talking about the carrying out of a store, or redirecting, or getting them dressed or whatever - NOT deliberately using force with them to cause pain or 'teach a lesson', which is a whole other thing IMHO and NOT ok) that the relationship will not be compromised and for whatever reason they were unable or unwilling to work with you will soon pass and things will get back to 'normal'. Now obviously if it becomes a recurrent and frequent occurrence then you probably need to look into deeper reasons, but I don't always believe there's a deep-seated reason behind everything - I know sometimes I just don't wanna do stuff, so why not my kids too?

So yeah - I still think you did OK - I'm not applauding you, but I'm not faulting you at all, either. You did a lot more than a lot of parents would do.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
You know, I would never in a million years describe myself as CL... I *do* try to come up with consensual solutions to problems if I can (thank you MDC for introducing the concept to me), but I am totally okay with sometimes saying "because I'm the mom and I said so", setting finite boundaries about things that are not okay, etc.

Nonetheless, I am really not big on _physically_ forcing DD to do stuff. The whole "I am big and you are small so I can MAKE you do this" power dynamic feels almost as bad to me as spanking. I don't mean picking DD up and redirecting her somewhere else, I mean the kind of thing where you make the child do something while she is strongly verbally and physically protesting. That doesn't feel gentle in any way to me.

So, that's an area I really do try to work on. Not to say I've never put an unhappy kid into a carseat or changed a protesting baby's diaper or hauled a crying kid home from the playground... but IF I can avoid the physical coercion I really prefer to, providing I have the time to do so and I'm not totally inconveniencing others around us.

Still, I have NOWHERE NEAR the patience some of the mamas here have for negotiating mutually agreeable solutions!

It sounds like a day at my house, except you have it much harder(I don't have a baby to contend with).

Is going with her grandparents something she really likes?

Ds went through a period where he almost outright refused to be dressed. I could care less in the house, but outside we gotta be dressed(mostly because I want the rule to be pretty black and white, we step out of the door, we need to be dressed).

I would stress it and it became a very stressful situation until finally I followed the advise of dh. Instead of stressing it, if he didn't get dressed when I asked, I would gather his outfit, set it by the door. When things are very exciting and it's time to go, oh lo and behold we still have to get dressed, but because he is so excited to go, he forgot he was protesting before and gets dressed willingly.

By waiting until right when the grandparents there I suspect she's going to forget she was refusing to dress before and get dressed willingly, or you have an extra pair of hands to get it over very quickly and as gentle as possible.

I think three is just a tough age anyway(my friend calls it the terrible two's and the therapy three's), but with a new baby it's even tougher, hang in there mama, it's a tough job, but you can get through it!


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## Cian'sMama (Jan 28, 2005)

Hey, I just wanted to add my support and empathy. I cannot remember a time in my life when I felt so relentlessly defeated as when i had a 3 month old and an almost 3 y.o.

This to shall pass, and in the meantime, congratulate yourself for parenting mindfully, and forgive yourself immediately for the times you don't get it right.

i occasionally have to get DS dressed (now 3.5) because there is no other option. BUT I make it a lesson, saying with excitement, NOT patronizingly, "what is going on here? oh my!! you seem to have forgotten how to get your clothes on!" then I take him on my lap, dress him all the while explaining what I am doing. And we all get out the door with our bums covered.
hang in there!
peace,
Molly


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
You know, I would never in a million years describe myself as CL... I *do* try to come up with consensual solutions to problems if I can (thank you MDC for introducing the concept to me), but I am totally okay with sometimes saying "because I'm the mom and I said so", setting finite boundaries about things that are not okay, etc.

Nonetheless, I am really not big on _physically_ forcing DD to do stuff. The whole "I am big and you are small so I can MAKE you do this" power dynamic feels almost as bad to me as spanking. I don't mean picking DD up and redirecting her somewhere else, I mean the kind of thing where you make the child do something while she is strongly verbally and physically protesting. That doesn't feel gentle in any way to me.

So, that's an area I really do try to work on. Not to say I've never put an unhappy kid into a carseat or changed a protesting baby's diaper or hauled a crying kid home from the playground... but IF I can avoid the physical coercion I really prefer to, providing I have the time to do so and I'm not totally inconveniencing others around us.

Still, I have NOWHERE NEAR the patience some of the mamas here have for negotiating mutually agreeable solutions!


I don't really see this as an "I'm big and you're small" issue. I see it more as one of you has to take action in this situation and you, being the rational adult, is the one to do so. In my mind I don't see it as being mean to put her clothes on. You're choosing something for her that she cannot, or will not, choose for herself.

When my dd doesn't want to do something like get dressed, put her shoes on, or whatever I will say, "Do you want me to put those on for you or do you want to do it yourself?" If she ignores me, screams, throws a tantrum, whatever I'll just calmly say it again & typically she says she wants to do it herself. If she doesn't comply then I may end up saying something like, "That's fine if you don't want to put your shoes on yourself but we need to wear our shoes in the store so I will put them on for you."

Give yourself a break. There are lots more parents out there who never even think first about situations like this, they just act. And you are not one of those parents. You're aware of your dd's needs & feelings and that is very commendable.


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## mommyliz (Aug 22, 2007)

This thread has been so what I have needed to read! I only wish that I read it 4 months ago. I have a 31/2 year old and 10 month old and to echo the wise mommies of this thread it truly was the hardest thing I have ever done, to try and meet the needs of both kids. My son, the 3 1/2 yr old was truly driving me crazy as he has been presenting all new kinds of 'no' behavior. I am hopeful that the pre-school beginning will help as it has others in this conversation. But really, I have felt so defeated as in my fatigue I resorted too often to telling him what he has to do instead of my usual creative repertoire of negotiation. I know that we can all be too hard on ourselves and it helps to read others frustrations and triumphs. Lately my favorite has been the timer to help him play for a bit, then go use the toilet so we can get out the door! My silly side is coming back these days which helps too cause for a while there it was hard to bring that out because of feeling so overwhealmed. But at the end of the day, when I fall asleep with my beautiful little boy, he snuggles into me and says 'i love you to the moon and back mommy' and I realize that we are doing okay, whether he has the shirt on backwards or not.....


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Oh I needed this thread thank you!!


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