# Child Beaten In Store



## pajamajes (Feb 1, 2008)

Yesterday I was in the Wal-Mart. I was in the shoe section. Not that that's really important but... I ramble. Anyway, this lady was there with her two kids. One was a girl about 8 years old and one was a boy probably 6 years old. The mom was helping the girl try on shoes and handed the little boy a drink to hold, and he dropped it. he started crying, visibly upset about it. It was clearly an accident. And the momma jerked him up nearly off the ground and beat the hell out of that poor kid. First of all, can it actually be legal to beat you child in public. BTW, I'm sure she would call it spanking/discipline. It took all I had not to say something to her. But I would have started screaming and probably gotten thrown out of the Wal-Mart. Anyway, I just kinda wanted to vent/share.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Silence...suggests approval.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Why not call the police?


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Why not call the police?









:


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## mamahart (Sep 25, 2007)

What in the hell are you doing?!!? would be an appropriate response


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## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

I have been known to pull a "ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS" when I see stuff like that.

Makes them stop for a second and rethink what they are doing. Or at least give them someone to be mad at in hopes that it deters them from continuing the beating (or picking up where they left off later) because they are too busy telling me to go to hell.


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

Unfortuantely, I know from being the child who was beaten in public, that outside comments just made me get it evenn worse at home. It's always the child's fault for crying too loudly or drawing attention to the abuse.

I'm so sorry you saw this


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## pajamajes (Feb 1, 2008)

My silence had nothing to do with suggesting approval, it had to do with not knowing enough about the law to know if what the woman was doing was illegal or not. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean I'm allowed to force my beliefs on others. And I was with my mother and grandmother, firm believers in spanking. I didn't even want to have that conversation, AKA fight, with them again.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

That must have been tough for you to see.

Regardless of legality, and setting aside the moral issue, it was unbelievably rude of her to have done that in front of you.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Was she spanking him or beating him? It is legal to spank your children on the bottom in most places so long as you don't leave a bruise. It is not legal to hit your kids on other areas of their body especially if you leave a bruise. If she was actually breaking the law and beating him you should have called the police, if she wasn't that is really sad but there is not anything that can be done to stop it and speaking up may make things worse for the child and perhaps for you also if she decides to attack you for questioning her.


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
Was she spanking him or beating him? It is legal to spank your children on the bottom in most places so long as you don't leave a bruise. It is not legal to hit your kids on other areas of their body especially if you leave a bruise. If she was actually breaking the law and beating him you should have called the police, if she wasn't that is really sad but there is not anything that can be done to stop it and speaking up may make things worse for the child and perhaps for you also if she decides to attack you for questioning her.









: From your OP it's difficult to tell exactly what happened.


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## MAMom (Mar 24, 2005)

I've never been in that situation, and in the moment I'm not sure I could think of an appropriate response - I might have just stood there dumbfounded.

But, not having been there and reading about it what comes to mind is I might have just offered to help her clean up the drink to intervene. "Oh, gosh, it's so frustrating when you're trying to buy shoes and things aren't going your way - let me help you clean up the spill!" and to the boy "I'm sure you didn't mean to spill that drink - it's ok, everyone has accidents".

I don't know if that would have caused him to get a bigger beating at home as someone else suggested it might, but I know when I get frustrated/frazzeled out in public interacting with other people kind of defuses the situation.

So sad for that little boy...and the mama too.

=================
Mama to DS 5/03 & DD 2/06 (HBAC!)





























: ICAN "You never know when you're making a memory." ~ Rickie Lee Jones


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamahart* 
What in the hell are you doing?!!? would be an appropriate response









: But I agree that, many times, it will make things worse for the kid later.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I have intervened. You can say "Stop! Hitting hurts. Please do not hit.". You are safe to speak up. It doesn't have to be adversarial.

Pat


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
You are safe to speak up.

Yes, but it doesn't mean it would be safe for the child, unfortunately. Just because we doesn't know what goes on later doesn't mean it should be dismissed.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

I have been in this situation a couple times, and fortunately or unfortunately, I dont know.... but I had visceral reactions both times..

It was basically, "Om my god, please stop! Its not okay to hit!"

and it was once accompanied by my sobbing daughter saying "momma! that momma hitting baby!"
because this woman was smacking a 10-12 month old baby







on the face hands and then butt. it was awful.

and then my sensitive daughter told EVERYONE we saw, "momma hit a baby" and I had to explain that she wasnt referring to me.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

Yes, but it doesn't mean it would be safe for the child, unfortunately. Just because we doesn't know what goes on later doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
I firmly believe the emotional abuse of being told that 'you deserve to be hit', is more damaging than the physical assault subsequent to a stranger speaking up in the child's defense.

As a child, when I first heard an adult say that '_hitting children wasn't ok_', it helped me to know that SOMEONE didn't approve. It was the first time I'd ever *imagined* the possibility of my feelings being validated.

Pat


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## pajamajes (Feb 1, 2008)

She was spanking his butt, but he was squirming a good bit so she got his little legs and popped his hands in the process. I just used the term beating because that's what spanking is to me. But just to clarify, yeah, most spankers would have thought it completely normal and appropriate.


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama* 
Unfortuantely, I know from being the child who was beaten in public, that outside comments just made me get it evenn worse at home. It's always the child's fault for crying too loudly or drawing attention to the abuse.

I'm so sorry you saw this

















'tis true


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## hedgewitch (Jan 24, 2008)

This is horrifying. I agree with pp who stated that sending the message that this kind of abuse is not ok is so important. I don't know that I would have known how to react at the time but it is important to acknowledge that speaking out is valid and necessary. The more we speak out as a society and REFUSE to accept the abuse of children the less likely it is to be perpetuated IMO.

I am so shocked that a child would be hit in public in this day and age. I have never witnessed it and hope I never do (we live in Canada so it seems less likely) but I also hope I have the courage to speak out and perhaps even help if I do.


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## WonderWild (May 13, 2004)

Sorry you were witness to that. It's totally insane that she would be that upset over a spilled drink.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Oh how awful and sad.









I live in the deep south where unfortunately spanking is very, very common. We've run into this a few times ... the first time I was shopping alone, but was so shocked/scared/upset that I let out a very loud *gasp* and must have looked horrified. The Mom then laid in on me saying, "What, you've never seen a parent discipline a child?!"

Another time my son with with me. Another Mom was hitting (spanking, I guess) her child in a shopping cart. My not-so-shy son started asking me at the top of his lungs why that Mom was hitting and hurting her child. I tried to quickly get by so I could talk with him about it .. and as we passed them he asked the Mom directly, "why are you hurting your baby?" This Mom turned bright red and mumbled something.

I've never considered the fact that the kid might get it even worse at home after that.







I feel really bad now.

Honestly, what *IS* the best thing to do in that situation? I've always thought it would be good to let that child know what their parent is doing is not acceptable to everyone, that there are parents who don't hit/hurt. But when I've actually been confronted with it, I go into some sort of shock and don't seem to ever respond right.

What is the right way to handle that sitution?


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Yes, but it doesn't mean it would be safe for the child, unfortunately. Just because we doesn't know what goes on later doesn't mean it should be dismissed.

Very true. From a household with an abusive father, I know this to be the case. When the neighbors could hear/see, it only made him more angry.

But certainly, you need to do SOMETHING, if only to show your own child what was happening was NOT okay. Alerting store security would be appropriate.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Well; let's see. Speaking up takes guts that (let's be honest) not everyone has. It also (as other's have said) possibly puts the child at risk later if the parent is truly violent. So; let's examine the parents actions and stack it up against what we know.

We know that usually people try their best to save face in public; so the odds are; that mother was at her wits end.

We know that people usually spank/hit because they feel backed into a corner without options. They feel unheard. Frustrated. Etc.

This mother hit because the boy dropped the drink; thus making a mess for her to deal with; and most likely it was just the 'straw that broke the camel's back' so-to-speak. This mother is probably overloaded with stress and things on her agenda.

As a passerby; instead of making her feel worse; perhaps it would be best to offer to help her. To come by and say "I see that you're having a really hard time right now; you look like you're overloaded with stress and I bet this just made things harder on you. Can I help you by finding an employee and a mop to clean it up?". Offering her some sympathy and a solution may trigger her to realize that hitting the child is not a solution; and solutions aren't all that hard to find; and that you understand she's stressed. This makes her feel heard and helped.

Should you feel so bold afterwards; you might offer to meet for coffee sometime. If I had to guess; I'd say she feels really alone in life; unheard and misunderstood. Maybe you can be the one who brings positive back into her life.


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

My child spills a drink at least once a day; usually 2 or 3. Imagine if that poor boy is "spanked" (I consider it "deliberate hurting") every time? Yes, this particular mother may have been acting out of stress in a one-time situation (let's cross our fingers) but unfortunately she represents a great number of parents who spank (or worse) for every little mistake.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

I used to work in retail, and whenever we saw something like this, security was called and occasionally law enforcement was involved as well. I would have at least alerted the store that this was happening and possibly called the police.

So sad that this still happens so much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajamajes* 
My silence had nothing to do with suggesting approval, it had to do with not knowing enough about the law to know if what the woman was doing was illegal or not. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean I'm allowed to force my beliefs on others. And I was with my mother and grandmother, firm believers in spanking. I didn't even want to have that conversation, AKA fight, with them again.


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## Bisou (Dec 11, 2006)

Wow! A lot of wisdom in your response! Thanks for sharing.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
Well; let's see. Speaking up takes guts that (let's be honest) not everyone has. It also (as other's have said) possibly puts the child at risk later if the parent is truly violent. So; let's examine the parents actions and stack it up against what we know.

We know that usually people try their best to save face in public; so the odds are; that mother was at her wits end.

We know that people usually spank/hit because they feel backed into a corner without options. They feel unheard. Frustrated. Etc.

This mother hit because the boy dropped the drink; thus making a mess for her to deal with; and most likely it was just the 'straw that broke the camel's back' so-to-speak. This mother is probably overloaded with stress and things on her agenda.

As a passerby; instead of making her feel worse; perhaps it would be best to offer to help her. To come by and say "I see that you're having a really hard time right now; you look like you're overloaded with stress and I bet this just made things harder on you. Can I help you by finding an employee and a mop to clean it up?". Offering her some sympathy and a solution may trigger her to realize that hitting the child is not a solution; and solutions aren't all that hard to find; and that you understand she's stressed. This makes her feel heard and helped.

Should you feel so bold afterwards; you might offer to meet for coffee sometime. If I had to guess; I'd say she feels really alone in life; unheard and misunderstood. Maybe you can be the one who brings positive back into her life.


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## JustOneMore (May 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Silence...suggests approval.


What a horrible guilt trip to place on the original poster or anyone else that has remained silence out of not knowing what the 'right' thing to do is.


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## Evenstar (Sep 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
Well; let's see. Speaking up takes guts that (let's be honest) not everyone has. It also (as other's have said) possibly puts the child at risk later if the parent is truly violent. So; let's examine the parents actions and stack it up against what we know.

We know that usually people try their best to save face in public; so the odds are; that mother was at her wits end.

We know that people usually spank/hit because they feel backed into a corner without options. They feel unheard. Frustrated. Etc.

This mother hit because the boy dropped the drink; thus making a mess for her to deal with; and most likely it was just the 'straw that broke the camel's back' so-to-speak. This mother is probably overloaded with stress and things on her agenda.

As a passerby; instead of making her feel worse; perhaps it would be best to offer to help her. To come by and say "I see that you're having a really hard time right now; you look like you're overloaded with stress and I bet this just made things harder on you. Can I help you by finding an employee and a mop to clean it up?". Offering her some sympathy and a solution may trigger her to realize that hitting the child is not a solution; and solutions aren't all that hard to find; and that you understand she's stressed. This makes her feel heard and helped.

Should you feel so bold afterwards; you might offer to meet for coffee sometime. If I had to guess; I'd say she feels really alone in life; unheard and misunderstood. Maybe you can be the one who brings positive back into her life.

This is a very kind, centered response in this situation, but what would it look like from the child's perspective? If I were 6 and my mom smacked me, then a strange lady was nice to her and offered compassion and understanding (remember I'm 6 and I don't understand the intention behind diffusing a situation), it might reinforce the idea that I was bad and deserved to be smacked.

thoughts?


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## redsfree (Apr 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I firmly believe the emotional abuse of being told that 'you deserve to be hit', is more damaging than the physical assault subsequent to a stranger speaking up in the child's defense.

As a child, when I first heard an adult say that '_hitting children wasn't ok_', it helped me to know that SOMEONE didn't approve. It was the first time I'd ever *imagined* the possibility of my feelings being validated.

Thank you for sharing. I never would have thought about it in that way. DH and I saw a lady give her child a whopping on her rear in a store's parking lot. I was shocked, upset, and dumbfounded. I'm normally someone who would intervene in various public situations, but in that case, I didn't. It was also pretty quick though, and then they drove off. However, from your post WuWei, I don't think I will remain silent next time I witness such abuse. And if it happens, I hope the appropriate words come to me that validate the child's feelings but don't cause a worse beating at home.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evenstar* 
This is a very kind, centered response in this situation, but what would it look like from the child's perspective? If I were 6 and my mom smacked me, then a strange lady was nice to her and offered compassion and understanding (remember I'm 6 and I don't understand the intention behind diffusing a situation), it might reinforce the idea that I was bad and deserved to be smacked.









: I think the woman needs some gentle discipline herself. Maybe taking a more middle of the road approach, so the child also learns that his mom's actions are not OK. Saying something to the mom like "It looks like you are having a very rough day, but please don't take it out on your child. Please let me help you clean up." And then looking at the child and saying "I know you didn't mean to spill the drink. It was an accident, which sometimes happen to everyone..." Etc.

Of course, the woman might not be too thrilled about that approach either...


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## JustOneMore (May 29, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evenstar* 
This is a very kind, centered response in this situation, but what would it look like from the child's perspective? If I were 6 and my mom smacked me, then a strange lady was nice to her and offered compassion and understanding (remember I'm 6 and I don't understand the intention behind diffusing a situation), it might reinforce the idea that I was bad and deserved to be smacked.

thoughts?


I think the most important factor is defusing the mom first.


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## Unconventional1 (Apr 3, 2006)

I saw a father hitting his little girl at the park one day while I was a nanny of two two year olds. As we walked by, I looked the father in the eye and said "that's not okay" and then to the daughter "Sorry that happened to you". Others were watching, but did nothing. The father got very embarrassed, and his daughter went off to play. I feel like I sent the message that what he was doing was wrong to him, his daughter, and the girls that I was watching.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

:

Poor little boy.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

I once got my lollipop stuck on a rack of socks, and pulled down two rows of socks trying to hide it from my mother. Of course, she saw, and proceeded to beat the crap out of me (arms, face, butt, etc). Because I was crying and my mother was making such a scene, a lady came by and offered to help us get it unstuck and was very very kind and great to both my mom and I. When we got out to the car, my mom drove to the next parking lot, said something to the effect of "I cannot believe you embarassed me like that in public, you were carrying on so loudly that that woman stopped by, you're lucky she was nice to you, etc," and proceeded to beat me again.

Sometimes you can't win, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I'll always remember that beating, but always remember that lady too.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
I once got my lollipop stuck on a rack of socks, and pulled down two rows of socks trying to hide it from my mother. Of course, she saw, and proceeded to beat the crap out of me (arms, face, butt, etc). Because I was crying and my mother was making such a scene, a lady came by and offered to help us get it unstuck and was very very kind and great to both my mom and I. When we got out to the car, my mom drove to the next parking lot, said something to the effect of "I cannot believe you embarassed me like that in public, you were carrying on so loudly that that woman stopped by, you're lucky she was nice to you, etc," and proceeded to beat me again.

OMG. I literally gasped out loud when I read this. I'm so sorry this happened to you.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajamajes* 
Yesterday I was in the Wal-Mart.

I think everyone has already addressed everything else... DH and I were talking about this, and when I read it to him he immediately picked up on the fact that yes, indeed, it happened at a Wal-Mart. Every situation we've ever seen involving an adult bullying a child has been in a Wal-Mart and it really makes me wonder what it is about WM that seems to make moms like this. Just a genuine curiosity, not a stereotype, as I also shop at WM on occasion







And it's not just us... in high school, my band director always gave a musical comparison of how quiet and gentle is often more effective than super loud and abrasive... and he called the analogy "The Wal mart Mom" (he GD'd his kids as well).


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## lovesdaffodils (Jul 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
I think everyone has already addressed everything else... DH and I were talking about this, and when I read it to him he immediately picked up on the fact that yes, indeed, it happened at a Wal-Mart. Every situation we've ever seen involving an adult bullying a child has been in a Wal-Mart and it really makes me wonder what it is about WM that seems to make moms like this. Just a genuine curiosity, not a stereotype, as I also shop at WM on occasion







And it's not just us... in high school, my band director always gave a musical comparison of how quiet and gentle is often more effective than super loud and abrasive... and he called the analogy "The Wal mart Mom" (he GD'd his kids as well).

I wonder if it's the bright chaotic nature of a wal-mart. I stopped shopping there about three years ago, but a few weeks back, a friend of mine needed to go into one for something while I was with her. I was really overwhelmed just being in there because it was SO bright, there were so many people scurrying around, etc. It was sensory overload for me!


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## acannon (Nov 21, 2007)

I was "disciplined" in a WalMart, too, when I was in third grade. We were in one of the aisles and I did something obnoxious, I don't remember what. I guess I kept doing it, though, because my dad got upset and put his hands around my throat like he was going to choke me (he didn't squeeze hard or anything, but it was still pretty scary) and this woman who was pushing her cart past us stared. That was when I really understood that the things my parents did to discipline me, past spanking (I didn't like spanking and knew it wasn't a good idea, but I kind of accepted it because everyone else I knew got spanked, too) was bad. So even if you don't say anything, just staring and making eye contact with the child might help him/her understand that it's wrong. Calling the mom out, IMO, would just make things worse. Maybe he'll find a way to deal with it, if it's really bad at home, by calling CPS or telling an adult about it. The way I dealt with it was moving out right when I turned 18, and it was the best way to get myself away from my parents. Then DP and I moved to Tennessee, and I don't talk to them anymore.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnymw* 
I think everyone has already addressed everything else... DH and I were talking about this, and when I read it to him he immediately picked up on the fact that yes, indeed, it happened at a Wal-Mart. Every situation we've ever seen involving an adult bullying a child has been in a Wal-Mart and it really makes me wonder what it is about WM that seems to make moms like this.

I heard verbal abuse at IKEA. The little boy (5?) was sucking his thumb, and his grandma was swearing at him for it. I stopped and stared-- wasn't planned-- I was just shocked. Then the grandma started making aggressive comments to me (and her daughter joined in). I had my baby strapped to me so I backed away. I still don't know what I should have done.


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## joeymama (Nov 6, 2005)

Firm believer in speaking up, here. If I see a child being mistreated in public I speak up , weather it is a parent smoking a cigarette in the car or my favorite while wearing the baby. I say something. I think that in this situation saying something at the very least shows both of the children that SOMEONE thinks that this is not ok, and hopefully when they ar parents them selves they will remember the "crazy lady in the Wal-mart that stood up for them and gave them the idea that kids should not be hit. Some parents would take this out on their kids later and some I truly beleive hear what youare saying and take it to heart.
You could say something like " I know you are frustrated with his spill but ABUSE is not he answer." using words like child abuse, or beating to the mother will help them to get the point. If you don't say something it is easy for everyone involved to turn a blind eye, and you never know maybe there were other people in the store that shared your view and would have followed your lead, proving your point to your mother and grandmother

My favorite thing to say to smokers is " I know you love your baby , maybe you didn't know second hand smoke is bad for babies and causes ear infections, upper respiratory infections, athsma, and heart conditions in babies, if you really need to smoke right now I will hold your baby, or sit with them in your car while you step outside"


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I firmly believe the emotional abuse of being told that 'you deserve to be hit', is more damaging than the physical assault subsequent to a stranger speaking up in the child's defense.

As a child, when I first heard an adult say that '_hitting children wasn't ok_', it helped me to know that SOMEONE didn't approve. It was the first time I'd ever *imagined* the possibility of my feelings being validated.

Pat

I agree completely. I reject the thought process behind "the kid will get it worse when they get home... better keep quiet". Of course, no one wants to think of being the catalyst in that situation -- but the fact is, no one hits their child because *you* spoke up. They might *say* that is the reason... but chances are, the child gets hit anyway for anything if that is the case.

However, speaking up and letting not only the child, the hitter, and people around you know that it is NOT OKAY plants a seed (as in Pat's example) that imo, stays with a child. They have a spark lit inside them that says... _there are people out there who think this is wrong, maybe I am not bad, maybe I don't deserve this._ ... and that hopefully, sticks around a lot longer than the abuse does.

I made a vow a long time ago to always say something, because the times I didn't left me feeling so powerless and like such a coward. Sometimes my approach varies, but I do always say something now.


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I firmly believe the emotional abuse of being told that 'you deserve to be hit', is more damaging than the physical assault subsequent to a stranger speaking up in the child's defense.

As a child, when I first heard an adult say that '_hitting children wasn't ok_', it helped me to know that SOMEONE didn't approve. It was the first time I'd ever *imagined* the possibility of my feelings being validated.

Pat


Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
I agree completely. I reject the thought process behind "the kid will get it worse when they get home... better keep quiet". Of course, no one wants to think of being the catalyst in that situation -- but the fact is, no one hits their child because *you* spoke up. They might *say* that is the reason... but chances are, the child gets hit anyway for anything if that is the case.

However, speaking up and letting not only the child, the hitter, and people around you know that it is NOT OKAY plants a seed (as in Pat's example) that imo, stays with a child. They have a spark lit inside them that says... _there are people out there who think this is wrong, maybe I am not bad, maybe I don't deserve this._ ... and that hopefully, sticks around a lot longer than the abuse does.

I made a vow a long time ago to always say something, because the times I didn't left me feeling so powerless and like such a coward. Sometimes my approach varies, but I do always say something now.


I completely respect and admire both CC and WW, and I want desperately to believe that as an intervening adult, I would do more harm by not speaking up. But I just don't always believe that. The honest to god truth is that there are some really unstable and psychotic parents out there and sometimes saying something really DOES make the parent give it worse at home. I clearly remember being 5 years old and my mother literally pulling me down the sidewalk by my hair, which was always kept long and in a ponytail so that she'd always have a handle. When she got tired of pulling me by my hair she pushed me in front of her and kicked me in the rear repeatedly, as well as smacking me and cussing at me. Of course I cried and screamed, and she hollered at me to shut up. A woman came out of her apartment and tried to make small talk with my mother and she asked if I was okay. When we got home not only did the beating continue, but I ended up with a black eye and bumps on my head from being thrown, by my hair, into walls. The whole time she re-iterated that "I" made a scene. "I" was being dramatic and "I" called attention to us, and how dare "I" embarass her like that.

That woman was trying to help in the only way she could. But she made things worse. At that age, I already knew that my mother's behavior was not okay. I didn't need someone to say anything to her, I needed someone to remove me from her. If they couldn't do that, I wanted them to keep thier mouth shut. A kind look from an outside adult did more good to me than saying anything.

So yeah, I firmly believe that sometimes saying something does some good. And sometimes not saying anything is better, and it's really hard to tell which is the right thing.


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## Septagram (Feb 8, 2008)

When I see this happen (and I see it all the freaking time) I just give the parent the look of a thousand deaths and hug my kids tight. I have yet to see anyone say anything back to me. They can take it as they like, but I'm sure they know that I'm glaring at them for abusing their children.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I'm keeping all of you who posted about your experiences as well as children that this is happening to in my thoughts.

It is just horrible, and I am so very sorry.


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama* 

That woman was trying to help in the only way she could. But she made things worse. At that age, I already knew that my mother's behavior was not okay. I didn't need someone to say anything to her, I needed someone to remove me from her. If they couldn't do that, I wanted them to keep thier mouth shut. A kind look from an outside adult did more good to me than saying anything.

So yeah, I firmly believe that sometimes saying something does some good. And sometimes not saying anything is better, and it's really hard to tell which is the right thing.

Even though I knew my mother's behavior was wrong, i also didn't know what else existed. Yes I could see kindness in a stranger and think, wow, they might not treat me this way...but no stranger was ever going to just take me in. Anytime CPS came over to the house my mother made sure to tell us that if the house was too messy or if we seemed unhappy they would take us away and we would have to live with people we didn't know. That was infinitely more scary than getting pushed around and slapped and not having anything for dinner. Plus, she was so unstable. Yeah she hit. Yeah it hurt. But it also hurt to see her cry and be frustrated with us/her life...which happened just as often as her getting angry. Sometimes she was so sad/angry at herself it seemed okay for her to take it out on us because otherwise how was mommy going to be okay? And if mommy wasn't okay, what was going to happen to us?


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## mom2reenie (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm a very infrequent poster, but a regular lurker and wanted to speak up.

Until recently dh and I spanked. When she was born, we vowed we would never spank, but as she got older we resorted to spanking. Partly because we were at a loss of what else to do, partly because everyone we knew spanked, and partly because it got immediate results. Before DS was born, I realized that there were other ways to discipline.

I remember when were at a store, DD was throwing a huge temper tantrum and I told her she needed to stop or we'd go into the bathroom for a spanking. A lady walked by and made a comment about how I shouldn't spank.

That's all it was-- a comment. She didn't give me other suggesstions to defuse the situation, she didn't give me any sites to look at to get guidance, she just made a rude comment and went on her way.

Did she make me think that spanking was wrong? No, she made me decide that she was a rude women who was very judgemental.

Speaking up and saying it's wrong, itsn't going to stop them from spanking. They need guidance, direction, encouragement, and support.

You wouldn't walk up to a mom holding a crying baby and just say "oh, you should wear her" and walk away without pointing her in the wrong direction, so why walk up to a parent who spanks and say "oh, you shouldn't spank" and walk away?


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## N8'sMom (Jun 25, 2007)

What is it with Walmart and child abuse?
This same thing happened to my husband at our
Walmart. Except this was a couple and the man
was doing the abusing to a litlte girl. My husband
said no one said anything but everyone was staring.
The people apparently were on meth or some type of
drug.
Anyway, to make a long story short, the guy got
aggressive with my husband and they almost got in
a fight, but the couple ended up running out of
the store really fast. Probably for fear of the police
catching them with dope or something.
If you fear for your own safety and don't want to
speak up, just call for security or call the police.
At least that way, you would have done something.


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## annanicole (Dec 18, 2007)

my aunt is a county crisis child and youth worker. in PA you are not allowed to physically attack your children. grabbing a child by the arm and hitting them is considered assault.

While out in public with my aunt, I was sat down on a bench and told not to move, while she went over and took the child from the parent beating them and told the parent that they would stay there until the police came.

but for an everyday citizen it's significantly harder to know what to do. I agree with some of the prior posters saying to the mom stop hitting isn't right. I also would have called the police and the store manager over to get this womans information.

FYI If you ever feel a child is being abused, call 911 demand a child welfare safety check. They will send an officer to hold the situation until a crisis case worker appears.

to the OP, I'm so sorry you were put into that situation. I think sometimes witnessing abuse is as tramatizing as being abused, and sometimes worse!


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## Tinker (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I have intervened. You can say "Stop! Hitting hurts. Please do not hit.". You are safe to speak up. It doesn't have to be adversarial.

Pat

Sure you're safe. But who knows how that child will have to pay for your actions later on.

(You is a generalization here not directed at WuWei personally.)


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## Tinker (Mar 1, 2007)

I how it would have helped diffuse the situation if you (or anyone) had gone up to the mother and said something like, "It sure is frustrating, can I help you clean you this soda?" Or whatever it was. Who knows what their shopping trip had been like up to that point? Maybe the kids had been really difficult and that was just the last straw? (Not that, that makes it ok) Maybe an offer of help and a few seconds to step back and realize how small the incident really was, would have made all the difference. Just a thought.

At the very least you would have interrupted the spanking, without the mama feeling confronted.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

A lot of people shop at Walmart. It is the largest retailer in the US. It is no surprise that a lot of stuff happens there.

And no offense, but it's cheap and a lot of poor people shop there. The poorer you are, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to spank and use physical violence, the more stress there is in your life for many reasons. It is a social issue.

To the OP- I am glad you posted because I also would have no idea what to do.


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## Qerratsmom (Sep 22, 2004)

Reading this post and abuse accounts is making me sob. I am so sorry for those of you who were beat and children who continue to be beat today. I was never spanked as a child but my dh was a child of abuse. It breaks my heart the ptsd that he goes through everyday as an adult. I'm so sorry.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

First let me say I am so sorry you had to witness this. I have seen this and I experienced it many times. My parents would do the same to me and I had many trips (some in a squad) because my parents would shove, hit, pull hair, and one time break arms because I was "not acting right" as they would say. Now as a parent, I DO speak up by offering to help the parent and trying to sound helpful and understanding. It is so wrong to hit a child and many parents don't get it. They are overloaded. I am NOT defending these parents, just trying to understand why they do it.
To ThreeBeans: How horrible to suggest she approved of it! Geez...!!!!!!!


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## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

nak

In this country that woman probably would have been arrested. Spanking/smacking your child has recently been made illegal here.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I don't think anyone should confront a person in public who is abusing an elderly person, it might make the person be meaner to them when they get home.

If you see a dog fight, or a starving dog chained out back, I think you should keep walking because the people may get mad if you call someone.

I think if someone were screaming at and hitting a person in a wheelchair, you should be quiet because that person may be the disabled person's only caregiver and you wouldn't want to mess up that situation.

I think if you find bedsores and bruises on your grandmother at a nursing home, you should keep it to yourself because it took a lot to get her in there and you don't know if you can afford another one, or if it is accepted by insurance.

If you see a person hitting their spouse in public, or holding a woman down to assault her ... it is best not to get involved or call anyone because the women might not want to get her man in trouble and might think the good outweighs the abuse.

See, in those situations I would do something (or call someone if I didn't want to confront myself) because those things go against my moral code in every fiber of my being -- just like spanking.

I will always speak up. A group of people "minding their own business" is how most of the world's worst atrocities have been allowed to be commited.

I just feel very strongly about this... I am not directing it at any one person in particular.


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## Narn (Nov 7, 2007)

I have read all these posts, and I still don't know what I'd do in that situation. I hope it's something I never have to witness.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

I don't know if this would work. I know it wouldn't work long-term, but maybe it would stop the situation without causing more problems.

What if, instead of focusing on talking about the situation (hitting, yelling, etc.), what if you came up to the mom and started asking her about something unrelated? You know . . .start helping clean up the soda, and then start talking to her about something else (like how there is a sale, or boy isn't the weather awful, etc.). Then, focus your attention on the child. Compliment the mom on her child, how beautiful he is, or something else. No mention of hitting, no mention of parenting-- just a human to human connection. Maybe that would stop the situation (at least for the time being) with no repercussions for the child of having "made a scene."


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## APBTlover (Dec 28, 2007)

I've only been in this sort of situation once, where I really WANTED to do something, but didn't have a clue WHAT. For the most part, people who are just spanking their kids (open-handed, on the bottom) are NOT "abusers," in that they are just doing the best they know how, and they are unlikely to punish their child if someone approaches them about the spanking. I was spanked, and almost everyone around here does it. MOST of them may be offended that you would criticize their parenting, but they wouldn't take it out on their child. It can be hard to know, though, can't it?

The one time I had a similar experience was in WalMart, alas. This woman was cussing at her son -- he was maybe 5 or so. I was irritated by this, but I didn't say anything. This woman was very sour and hateful-looking... I was sure this wasn't just a stressed-out reaction. She gave me the creeps. I met up with DH on another aisle and told him about the woman; if we were quiet we could hear her yelling, wherever she was.

A little while later we met up on another aisle. The woman paused to pick something up and talk to the other woman who was with her, and the little boy walked in front of the buggy (or cart... we call them buggies here) to look at something. As soon as the woman (mom, I assume) was ready to go, she said, "Get out of the way!" After about 2 seconds, when he didn't move, she ran the buggy into him. I was so appalled, and I will always, always be angry with myself for not intervening. I felt sick to my stomach; the other woman didn't say anything at all. I told myself I would tell an employee about it when I saw one, but there weren't any around. I know I was just sort of rationalizing why I "couldn't" help. That was the last we saw of them, until we were out in the parking lot. I was at the soda machines, and the women and boy were at their car. It was a station-wagon type vehicle; the boy was sitting in the back seat, while the women put the groceries into the very back of the car. He turned around to ask them something, and the mom (?) started yelling at him to "turn your @$$ around and sit down! You always have to make everything so difficult! Why? God, I wish I'd never f***ing had you!"

I just didn't know what to do...







I knew then that the people would be gone before I could get help, and I felt positive that my own intervention would have just meant more abuse for the child. This was probably 2 years ago. I still think about that day. I am determined never to let anything like that slide ever again, but it doesn't make me feel any better about letting that boy go home with that terrible woman.


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
I don't think anyone should confront a person in public who is abusing an elderly person, it might make the person be meaner to them when they get home.

If you see a dog fight, or a starving dog chained out back, I think you should keep walking because the people may get mad if you call someone.

I think if someone were screaming at and hitting a person in a wheelchair, you should be quiet because that person may be the disabled person's only caregiver and you wouldn't want to mess up that situation.

I think if you find bedsores and bruises on your grandmother at a nursing home, you should keep it to yourself because it took a lot to get her in there and you don't know if you can afford another one, or if it is accepted by insurance.

If you see a person hitting their spouse in public, or holding a woman down to assault her ... it is best not to get involved or call anyone because the women might not want to get her man in trouble and might think the good outweighs the abuse.

See, in those situations I would do something (or call someone if I didn't want to confront myself) because those things go against my moral code in every fiber of my being -- just like spanking.

I will always speak up. A group of people "minding their own business" is how most of the world's worst atrocities have been allowed to be commited.

I just feel very strongly about this... I am not directing it at any one person in particular.

I've read this whole thread, more than once, and I just don't see where anyone even so much as implied that one should NEVER intervene, or that one should "mind their own business" or turn a blind eye to an abusive situation. I have real problem with blanket statements in general, but especially in the vein of _It is always better to intervene than not because at least it sends a message_ or _It will never be worse for the child just because of me saying something_ or even _One should never intervene at all because it will just make things worse for the poor kid._ Sometimes, circumstances call for intervention. I will give you that 100%. However I think it's wise for all of us to aknowledge that though our intentions may be pure and good, that sometimes-sometimes the act of speaking up WILL make the situation worse for the kid. And unfortunately, there's not a solid way of knowing for sure what the outcome for the kid would be. There's only instinct to guide us in this situations. If I felt, instinctually, that the mom was having a rotten day and was just plain old at her wits end, I might say something to try and defuse it. But if I got the abusive vibe from her (and as an abuse survivor, this instinct is pretty keenly honed in me) I would most likely either inform a manager or casually notice which car was hers, take down the plate number and call 911. I would not, under any circumstances, directly speak to the parent or child because I strongly feel that my direct and obvious action would, in fact, make that kid's life worse.


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## Septagram (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APBTlover* 
I just didn't know what to do...







I knew then that the people would be gone before I could get help, and I felt positive that my own intervention would have just meant more abuse for the child. This was probably 2 years ago. I still think about that day. I am determined never to let anything like that slide ever again, but it doesn't make me feel any better about letting that boy go home with that terrible woman.

I certainly hope that there will never be a next time, but take down their license plate and the make/model of their car. You can call the police with that information and they will send someone to investigate. I know what hell CPS can inflict upon a family, and I don't wish that on anyone who doesn't deserve it, but this is a case where THEY DO DESERVE IT!


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
A lot of people shop at Walmart. It is the largest retailer in the US. It is no surprise that a lot of stuff happens there.

And no offense, but it's cheap and a lot of poor people shop there. The poorer you are, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to spank and use physical violence, the more stress there is in your life for many reasons. It is a social issue.

To the OP- I am glad you posted because I also would have no idea what to do.

Sorry, but this is totally offensive classist bullshit. People abuse their kids and spouses in EVERY socio-economic class.


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## acannon (Nov 21, 2007)

True. Upper and middle class people are better at hiding it, or, at least, that's how it seems to me. Parents seem to want other people to think their lives are perfect so they hide what they do/say to their children that are less than perfect (this is especially true if you live in a suburb.) Another factor to take into consideration is that there are "milder" (for lack of a better term) forms of abuse that some people might not even consider abuse. For the longest time, I didn't know what my parents were doing to me was abuse. They would call me names and say terrible things to me. I just assumed every parent did that, because I heard other parents doing it, too. It wasn't to the extent that my parents did, especially my dad, but I assumed that they said worse things at home. I didn't like what they did, but I didn't know that it was emotional abuse.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Actually I _have_ read there is a connection between education level and a reduction in spanking habits.

However I disagree that any one socio-economic class shops at Wal-Mart.


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## acannon (Nov 21, 2007)

My parents both have college degrees and they spanked me. They also emotionally and sometimes physically abused me, beyond the spanking. I personally don't think it has that much to do with level of education. They did it because their parents did it, and their parents' parents did, and so on. They're just perpetuating the cycle of abuse, and, IMO, that's a bigger factor than level of education. And, again, it plays into the socio-economic factor because, more often than not, poorer people don't have college degrees because college is so expensive. DP and I haven't been to college (we both chose not to go) and neither of us are going to spank, but that's because we were both abused and know how terrible it is.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I just meant that objectively, I think studies have shown a strong correlation between spanking and poverty and/or parents with little formal education. Obviously there are many exceptions.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Originally Posted by Mahtob:
A lot of people shop at Walmart. It is the largest retailer in the US. It is no surprise that a lot of stuff happens there.

And no offense, but it's cheap and a lot of poor people shop there. The poorer you are, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to spank and use physical violence, the more stress there is in your life for many reasons. It is a social issue.

My God! What a terrible thing to say. Uhh...I know a LOT of people who are upper class and they shop at Wal-Mart. What the hell does it have to do with spanking your kids or not anyway? Oh, the things people will say.....


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom* 
Sorry, but this is totally offensive classist bullshit. People abuse their kids and spouses in EVERY socio-economic class.

its true that children get abused in every class...physical abuse is definitely more rampant in poor classes though. we live and my husband is a teacher in a "lower" class neighborhood. you can see it in the way the children interact with each other. hitting is acceptable as a form of dominance. its what makes dh's job so hard, a lot of the kids will not listen to people who do not use physical coercion. this is how they survive. people who do not LIVE this have trouble understanding it. i did.

i think in the other classes though (middle and upper) you would see more mental/emotional abuse, and that includes negligence and trying to buy your kids/spouses love.

one is not worse than the other.

i had another point but i forgot what it was.


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## pajamajes (Feb 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Originally Posted by Mahtob:
A lot of people shop at Walmart. It is the largest retailer in the US. It is no surprise that a lot of stuff happens there.

And no offense, but it's cheap and a lot of poor people shop there. The poorer you are, the less educated you are, the more likely you are to spank and use physical violence, the more stress there is in your life for many reasons. It is a social issue.

My God! What a terrible thing to say. Uhh...I know a LOT of people who are upper class and they shop at Wal-Mart. What the hell does it have to do with spanking your kids or not anyway? Oh, the things people will say.....


Yeah. I am poor and I do shop at Wal-Mart. Only I don't spank. Or unfairly stereotype people.


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## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

what is one to DO in such a circumstance. to speak up is easy enough. but, what about follow-up? how DO you change the hardened heart of such an abusive parent enough to ensure their child/ren will never be subject to their ire in these ways ever again? where is a safe and secure space for these helpless children if not at their homes? if i could, i would gather these little ones close to me and from harm, but it's not really possible...i wonder what could be a lasting solution.


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
A lot of people shop at Walmart. It is the largest retailer in the US. It is no surprise that a lot of stuff happens there.

And no offense, but it's cheap and a lot of poor people shop there. *The poorer you are, the less educated you are,* the more likely you are to spank and use physical violence, the more stress there is in your life for many reasons. It is a social issue.

As a doctoral student with an MA and very little personal income, I beg to differ. I could name hundreds of well educated mamas on MDC who are in the same position.

Watch the stereotypes. Abuse happens everywhere. It is a social problem, but it has little to do with income.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swimswamswum* 
Watch the stereotypes. Abuse happens everywhere. It is a social problem, but it has little to do with income.









:

(Can't multiquote so I just copy and pasted this one)

heartmama-" I just meant that objectively, I think studies have shown a strong correlation between spanking and poverty and/or parents with little formal education. Obviously there are many exceptions. "

There are also studies that link high ice cream sales and murder (because both rise in the summer time). It doesn't mean it's true.

I see what you're saying but making a blanket statment which ignores the many MANY exceptions out there is enforcing a stereotype and giving an excuse for the behavior. "They are poor and uneducated so they hit." gives the impression that these people can't help but abuse their children, which is utterly UNTRUE.

Also: Kroger seems to be a hot spot for aggressive spankers. (I don't shop at Wal-Mart....I'm pretty low income but I just freaking hate that company too much to shop there) my general knee jerk response thus far has been, "Oh my God!" with a mortified look on my face.


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## Hannahsmummy (Oct 12, 2006)

It's a terrible thing to witness and I would be especially upset if my daughter saw it. I am not even sure how I would explain.

I have seen a child actually beaten. He was chased by his father, thrown to the ground and punched in the face 3 times. He appeared to be about 11 or 12. This was after watching the father belittle and humiliate his family.
I called the police.

However if I saw a spanking, regardless of how terrible I think that is, calling the police would be a waste of time because unfortunately spanking is legal in many places. I am not sure if I would even say anything. I'd feel horrible and helpless though.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

*pajamajes:*
Uhh...I was commenting on what *another reader* already posted...I did not make that comment. Please read the whole post. Thanks.


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## pajamajes (Feb 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
*pajamajes:*
Uhh...I was commenting on what *another reader* already posted...I did not make that comment. Please read the whole post. Thanks.

Oh, I know! I was just agreeing with you!







Sorry if it seemed like I being a B.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I firmly believe the emotional abuse of being told that 'you deserve to be hit', is more damaging than the physical assault subsequent to a stranger speaking up in the child's defense.

As a child, when I first heard an adult say that '_hitting children wasn't ok_', it helped me to know that SOMEONE didn't approve. It was the first time I'd ever *imagined* the possibility of my feelings being validated.

Pat

ITA with this. IMO everyone has a responsibility to speak up. It's kind of an easy out to say we fear the child may get it worse later so we say nothing. Tacit approval IMO is more dangerous, it validates the parent's behaviour in their minds, normalizes it. And so it continues.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Pajamas: No, I knew were not being a B====, I just didn't know if you knew it was NOT me who made that post.







Whew!


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I just came back to this thread.

If you do not think that economics has to do with violence, fine. But, statistics and sociology studies say otherwise. It is not classist to point out that the murder rate is higher among poor people. I am poor. I grew up poor. The murder rate is higher. Theft is higher. Spousal abuse is higher. It is not exclusive to the poor, but it is more common among the poor.

Why?

Could be something to do with the pressures that come with being poor. At least, that's a going theory, and it is also one of the reasons that we fund all kinds of support programs for the poor.

Though, it is true (I did not realize living outside of the U.S.) that some people who do not have to shop at Wal Mart, shop there (i.e. not poor people) which is something that I had not considered. I just assumed that if you could afford to support a more enlightened company and buy things not made in China, you would.

I stand by my statement that violence is linked to poverty and oppression. It is. That does not mean that if you are poor, you will be abusive, or if you are abusive, you must be poor. But there is a link.


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## Seika (Feb 12, 2008)

My co-worker had a unique way to intervene in these heightened situations. (We worked with teenage mothers and fathers, so teaching parenting and non-spanking discipline happened to be part of our job.)

If she saw that happening in a store, she, of course, wanted to say, "Oh my god--stop it!!!", but she felt that most of the time that would tick off the person more, thus hurting the child more. BTW, how sick is that? Someone says it's not right to hit, and they hit more/harder?) She would simply intervene with concern and offer help. (Yes, sounds crazy, but it's all in the way you do it and also the mental state of the parent.) She would say, "I know how hard it is to shop with children sometimes. Can I help you get to the checkout?... She would just start talking and calming them down and bringing them back to reality. Now, I don't know if I could do that. I just lose it if I see people hurting kids. But it's a hard intervention, that situation. It's in public, a stranger, and you have 30 seconds to change his/her mind about his/her parenting style. Yikes. I don't know really how to handle it. It just sucks.


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## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

Quote:

She was spanking his butt, but he was squirming a good bit so she got his little legs and popped his hands in the process. I just used the term beating because that's what spanking is to me. But just to clarify, yeah, most spankers would have thought it completely normal and appropriate.
I don't think spanking with an open hand can be qualified as 'beating'. And maybe people at MDC don't agree with me, but I don't think spanking is abuse. And the law agrees, right?

Yes, it hurts and smarts (and it's humiliating for the child), but it's not terribly painful or physically damaging. I speak as someone who was spanked 2-3 times daily from the ages of 3-11.

I don't think spanking is an effective means of disipline, and I think it's MEAN, but.. I don't get torn up when I see kids getting spanked in public.


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama* 
Unfortuantely, I know from being the child who was beaten in public, that outside comments just made me get it evenn worse at home. It's always the child's fault for crying too loudly or drawing attention to the abuse.










:


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
Though, it is true (I did not realize living outside of the U.S.) that some people who do not have to shop at Wal Mart, shop there (i.e. not poor people) which is something that I had not considered. I just assumed that if you could afford to support a more enlightened company and buy things not made in China, you would.


Most of my friends are middle-class and they don't understand why DH & I no longer shop at Wal*Mart because "you can get so much MORE stuff there, cheaper!"

Sadly, they have fallen prey to the Wal*Mart mantra, "Instead of teaching your kids to share, buy one for *each* of them."


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## MountainLaurel (Dec 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evenstar* 
This is a very kind, centered response in this situation, but what would it look like from the child's perspective? If I were 6 and my mom smacked me, then a strange lady was nice to her and offered compassion and understanding (remember I'm 6 and I don't understand the intention behind diffusing a situation), it might reinforce the idea that I was bad and deserved to be smacked.

thoughts?

I thought the same thing.


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## mama_y_sol (May 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama* 
I completely respect and admire both CC and WW, and I want desperately to believe that as an intervening adult, I would do more harm by not speaking up. But I just don't always believe that. The honest to god truth is that there are some really unstable and psychotic parents out there and sometimes saying something really DOES make the parent give it worse at home. I clearly remember being 5 years old and my mother literally pulling me down the sidewalk by my hair, which was always kept long and in a ponytail so that she'd always have a handle. When she got tired of pulling me by my hair she pushed me in front of her and kicked me in the rear repeatedly, as well as smacking me and cussing at me. Of course I cried and screamed, and she hollered at me to shut up. A woman came out of her apartment and tried to make small talk with my mother and she asked if I was okay. When we got home not only did the beating continue, but I ended up with a black eye and bumps on my head from being thrown, by my hair, into walls. The whole time she re-iterated that "I" made a scene. "I" was being dramatic and "I" called attention to us, and how dare "I" embarass her like that.

That woman was trying to help in the only way she could. But she made things worse. At that age, I already knew that my mother's behavior was not okay. I didn't need someone to say anything to her, I needed someone to remove me from her. If they couldn't do that, I wanted them to keep thier mouth shut. A kind look from an outside adult did more good to me than saying anything.

So yeah, I firmly believe that sometimes saying something does some good. And sometimes not saying anything is better, and it's really hard to tell which is the right thing.

Rigama, your post had me sobbing, sitting here holding my sleeping son. I am so very, very sorry for what you had to go through. I just couldn't read your story and not post...my heart goes out to you.


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## smartair (Apr 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama* 
Unfortuantely, I know from being the child who was beaten in public, that outside comments just made me get it evenn worse at home. It's always the child's fault for crying too loudly or drawing attention to the abuse.

I'm so sorry you saw this









This was true in my house too... I think the best is to let the abuser know that you are there with out intruding. That way, they will at least "try" to control themselves and not blame the kid.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
Well; let's see. Speaking up takes guts that (let's be honest) not everyone has. It also (as other's have said) possibly puts the child at risk later if the parent is truly violent. So; let's examine the parents actions and stack it up against what we know.

We know that usually people try their best to save face in public; so the odds are; that mother was at her wits end.

We know that people usually spank/hit because they feel backed into a corner without options. They feel unheard. Frustrated. Etc.

This mother hit because the boy dropped the drink; thus making a mess for her to deal with; and most likely it was just the 'straw that broke the camel's back' so-to-speak. This mother is probably overloaded with stress and things on her agenda.

As a passerby; instead of making her feel worse; perhaps it would be best to offer to help her. To come by and say "I see that you're having a really hard time right now; you look like you're overloaded with stress and I bet this just made things harder on you. Can I help you by finding an employee and a mop to clean it up?". Offering her some sympathy and a solution may trigger her to realize that hitting the child is not a solution; and solutions aren't all that hard to find; and that you understand she's stressed. This makes her feel heard and helped.

Should you feel so bold afterwards; you might offer to meet for coffee sometime. If I had to guess; I'd say she feels really alone in life; unheard and misunderstood. Maybe you can be the one who brings positive back into her life.

The best post I've read...I agree with everything you said!


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