# Help with aggression towards younger sister



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

DS is 4.5, dd 26mos. They DO get along at times and play together well, etc. However, DS has always just had this aggression towards her. It seems whenever he is walking or running past her, he finds a way to bump into her and knock her down. He yells in her face to scare her. He hits her and pushes her down when he doesn't want her near her or doesn't like what she is doing.

I just don't know what to do about it. Telling him it hurts, we don't hit, we don't push, keep your hands on your own body, etc etc etc have not worked, and it's been a year since I started. He just plain doesn't care. Not to make him sound like a monster, last week she broke a glass in the living room and he IMMEDIATELY got her on the couch so she wouldn't step in it. So it's not like he truly hates her!!







What do I do about this? It's making me very, very angry at him. I can deal with testiness (which he is good at lol) but when he hurts her over and over and doesn't care...I lose it.


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

seriously? NO ONE?????? My baby is getting hurt by her brother all the time and no one here has even seen it or can lead me to a solution?


----------



## theirmomjayne (Mar 21, 2006)

Can't help you but can sympathize. My 6 yr old son is like this.


----------



## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I have a 7 year old who has for a long time been aggressive toward her 5 year old brother (and at times toward her 3 year old sister). She loves them, they do often play together well, but she does hit. We have been through the wringer here trying to find a solution to this problem. What I have learned is that telling her to stop and telling her it hurts and punishing her (like time-outs) and rewards (for not hitting) do not help. None of that has worked. Kids who are hitting are feeling and needing something, but have no other way (at least in that moment) of saying what they're feeling and needing. Spending so much time focusing on telling dd what *not* to do got really discouraging to her, didn't acknowledge her feelings and needs, and did nothing to help her learn better skills for coping with frustration and resolving conflict. Everyone does what they do for a reason, and they do the best they can given the skills they have. I truly believe that if a kid could do better, he would because no child really wants to be miserable and have such stress between himself and his family.

What we are finally now learning to do is help our dd learn to remain more calm (she reacts with very intense emotion, rapidly), identify her feelings and needs/wants, and work with us to learn other ways of communicating and problem-solving besides hitting. If she hits b/c her brother is too close: "dd, I saw you hit, what's up?" he wouldn't get away from me "you didn't like how close he was" yes "I understand. Thing is, I don't like to see people hitting each other, I need everyone to be safe. Let's see if we can come up with another way for you to tell your brother to move." Or if we see it coming (she has just screamed at him to move, and he isn't moving...): "Whoa. What's up you two?" He won't move, he's bad..... "Oh. You don't want him next to you?" yes, and he's bad! "You're angry because you asked him to move away from you and he didn't. You want some space." yes. "I understand. Let's see if we can work this out together." So our 3 steps, in a nutshell, are 1) empathy and reassurance (it's important to really take our time here, so we really understand what our child is feeling and needing, guess and ask questions until it's clear: what's up? are you feeling/wanting?...) 2) define the problem (this is where we communicate our concern or help the other child involved communicate their concern if needed-not giving orders, just communicating our own feelings/needs/concerns) and 3) invite the child to problem solve ("let's work this out, can you think of a different way to solve this? do you have any ideas how we can solve this?" or maybe "can you think of a different way to tell him you need space?") We've just recently really come to understand that this is what our dd needs, and we're still learning to do it well, but it is helping a lot-we are seeing progress. I wish we'd figured this out a long time ago. It does take time, though. It is important to remember that no matter how you address it, it will take your child time to learn.

It also sometimes helps to talk about how hard it can be to have a younger sibling. Some of that hitting can come from a more general frustration or jealousy, and talking about how it is sometimes hard to have a sibling and how it's normal to love someone and feel angry with them or sometimes even wish they'd go away can be a big relief to a child experiencing those feelings.

And if it's happening frequently, it's a good idea to always supervise them when they're in the same room. And to separate them, for safety, when you can't be right there to prevent aggression or intervene.


----------



## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

mama

While my older dd is not the aggressive type she sometimes hurts her little sister, I have tried everything you mention, what I'm doing now is remove the toddler from the situation and give her tons of attention ignoring my 4.5 year old. Sometimes my older dd whines for a bit other times she just goes bak to whatever she's doing but in a minute or two goes to wherever dd2 and I are and apologize to her little sister.


----------



## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

I really like the Naomi Aldort approach to sibling aggression. She takes the approach that the older child is acting against their sibling as a means of coping with jealousy and to not deal with them by any form of punishment (as in ignoring or time out, removal of priveledges etc) but to take an empathetic caring loving approach. See their aggression as a cry for attention in the best way they know how. So when the older child hurts their sibling, quickly comfort the younger child, but then pull the older child to you and cuddle them, tell them you love them. I personally didn't make an issue of the aggression (by saying we don't hit etc) and just treated the underlying problem (and tried really hard to keep it in mind when all I wanted to do was yell and yank him out of that situation). My ds went through this with dd and I took this approach and within a few weeks we were past it. Then during 'out of the moment' times I talked with him gently and reassured him of my love regardless of what is going on at the time, no matter what he's doing or behaving.

http://www.naomialdort.com/articles4.html

If you don't want to read the entire article, go down to the paragraph that starts "When Lennon was 4 1/2...".

HTH


----------



## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

Oh and I use a lot of the problem solving techniques that Sleg has given in helping DS deal with dd wanting his toys or getting into his space if it's frustration at her that is the issue.


----------



## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

just curious but if you pay attention and give a cuddle to the older child aren't you sending a message like " If I hit my little sister my mom pays attention to me"

not beeing snarky just curious, did it work for your son?


----------



## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mcng* 
just curious but if you pay attention and give a cuddle to the older child aren't you sending a message like " If I hit my little sister my mom pays attention to me

Did you read the article? It will explain it way better than me, I guess my above post didn't convey it properly. I saw the hitting of his sister as a need he was feeling that wasn't being met and the hitting was just the symptom of that - not that he's a bad child. He's not an aggressive child, so once I fulfilled his need then the hitting was no longer required on his part. It wasn't about him being bad, so no I wasn't rewarding him for hitting at all by cuddling, so no punishment required which to me would have driven a bigger wedge into a relationship that was already teetering on being harmed in his mind. HTH


----------



## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:

not beeing snarky just curious, did it work for your son?
See below.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nathansmum* 
My ds went through this with dd and I took this approach and within a few weeks we were past it.


----------



## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

Thanks I did read the article but it sounded a little too good to be true, i could totally see my dd hitting her little sister even more to get the attention as she loooves attention, but I think I'll give it a try.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry? It discusses allowing the "ugly" feelings about a sibling to be voiced and validated. This helps the child work through them so that he can move away from carrying them alone. And then he can gain perspective once these are not such a heavy burden.

Also, have you looked into food and behavior associations? Our son would have aggressive and physical episodes after consuming dairy. Agitation and less ability to hear and consider other's needs after artificial colors and high fructose corn syrup. You might check out The Feingold Diet. www.feingold.org or the book "Why Can't My Child Behave?" http://www.amazon.com/Why-Cant-My-Ch...e=UTF8&s=books
Food sensitivities can also increase sensory seeking behaviors such as the need to bump, push, hit, kick and other large motor movements that create sensory input.

Pat


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Thanks everyone. I knew SOMEONE had to have some help for me LOL!!!

I have read Siblings Without Rivalry. I'm trying to put some things into action, but honestly my two are really young for many of the strategies outlined. I am trying to give him some extra attention, I do feel like he has been a bit shafted lately but these behaviors have been going on forever.

As for Feingold...I have certainly considered it, it's just a big undertaking!! I'm actually inclined to think it might be dyes...I need to take a few days and really eliminate them. Is paying for Feingold really worth it? It's a lot of money. Do you think it's necessary to buy that book and the program, or just one?


----------



## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

Another thing is toddlers can be annoying to a 4 1/2 year old when they are busy doing their stuff I know mine is so sometimes is not attention they are seeking they just want to play alone. Is this is the case I just pick up the toddler and engage her in something else I do not think of this as punishment at all. But we do say we do not hit in our family.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *True Blue* 
Thanks everyone. I knew SOMEONE had to have some help for me LOL!!!

I have read Siblings Without Rivalry. I'm trying to put some things into action, but honestly my two are really young for many of the strategies outlined. I am trying to give him some extra attention, I do feel like he has been a bit shafted lately but these behaviors have been going on forever.

As for Feingold...I have certainly considered it, it's just a big undertaking!! I'm actually inclined to think it might be dyes...I need to take a few days and really eliminate them. Is paying for Feingold really worth it? It's a lot of money. Do you think it's necessary to buy that book and the program, or just one?

We never bought the Feingold "alternative brand" materials. We have a huge EarthFare here which doesn't buy or sell anything with artificial colors, flavors, HFCS, GMO, antibiotic foods, artificial preservatives, etc. It is heavenly to shop there. And actually, their prices are not higher than our Harris Teeter. But, we started Feingold when ds was just starting to eat and I substituted all those contraindicated foods from the start. It is harder to eliminate favorite foods. What I suggest is to just eliminate all artificial colors first. That is easy. Eliminating dairy is harder, but was HUGE for us. And eliminating HFCS was hardest of all, imo. It is in everything, it seems when you look at labels. But, our son would react to the nitrates and nitrites in deli meat and bacon even. Wired and kinetic beyond belief. So, we can even get those from EarthFare now. But substituting other options worked here.

The key is to ADD food alternatives, rather than just limit. Introducing new foods without the additives requires a lot of label reading. Every. single. item. I. buy. I read the label first. When we go out to eat, it is just whatever. But, there are tons of foods that are just brand differences like Lays rather than Ruffles or whatever. The Feingold list provides all that foot work, and even tells you which stores carry which brands (I think). So, that helps a lot to get started.

Doing the elimination diet for salicylates is hard, imo. I just watch for reactions after eating the fruits since our diet is so "clean", I can see which ones cause reactions. For instance, if ds has too many raisins, apples, blueberries, chocolate, grapes, strawberries, orange juice, cinnamon, peaches, tomato, etc. he reacts. "Too much" depends upon what other salicylate loading he has due to the accumulation from several sources. We don't much worry about those foods, since they are all occasional. Artificial vanilla is ubiquitous too (as vanillin). Medicines and multivits often include artificial colors and flavors.

Oh, we also avoid the artificial preservatives *BHA, BHT and TBHQ.*
*

*
HTH, Pat


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Thanks. DS has also never slept through the night, he stirs often talking in his sleep and dreaming, and that could be related as well. We eliminated dairy once when he was a toddler and still nursing to see if it caused his eczema (I have since concluded his eczema is more weather and moisture related) and we saw no major changes in him so I think I can safely keep that in his diet. So apples are bad? That is nuts. Those are his favorite so that would really difficult.


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

My kid on apples or grapes or peaches, etc. is UNREAL!

And I do mean "on"....like "on drugs." Crazy, violent, mean, disconnected, spastic. It's mind boggling to me. Like night and day.

We just went to the Feingold site and used their information to make food choices. Didn't subscribe or buy anything from them.

There is also a nice list of foods and their salycilate content which helped me enormously.


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Dairy and sleep issues go hand in hand for us.

And excema. And bedwetting.

I'm not sure how long you tried the dairy elimination, but it can take weeks to clear your system. And it shows up in trace amounts EVERYWHERE.

I know it's a huge undertaking, but I couldn't imagine how nightmarish our household would be if Sam were having dairy or salycilates on a regular basis.







:


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Thanks...we did dairy for 5-6 weeks when he was a nursing toddler, no difference in his eczema and not his sleep either...and he may have already even been nightweaned at the time. I'm going to have to go play with the Feingold site later and decide on buying or not...I'm thinking it might just be easier to buy it though. So you did or didn't buy the program?


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *True Blue* 
Thanks. DS has also never slept through the night, he stirs often talking in his sleep and dreaming, and that could be related as well. We eliminated dairy once when he was a toddler and still nursing to see if it caused his eczema (I have since concluded his eczema is more weather and moisture related) and we saw no major changes in him so I think I can safely keep that in his diet. So apples are bad? That is nuts. Those are his favorite so that would really difficult.

We found that wheat affects our son's sleep more than dairy. Dairy increased aggression. But we eliminated dairy, casein and whey (common ingredients in prepared foods) before we saw the vast improvement in sleep. It takes 1-6 weeks to eliminate all dairy proteins from the body, as I understand it. Eczema is highly correlated with dairy issues. Soy also; they are similar protein structures. I forgot, we eliminated soy ultimately too.









Apples are not good or bad. Just some people are hypersensitive to salicylates. Those with asthma have the most reactions. But, some people can eat one salicylate and not have issues, but other fruits are more reactive (perhaps higher in salicylates, or just more eaten). It just depends on the individual and the quantity consumed. Like I said, fruits were not our biggest issue. HFCS and artificial colors and preservatives are. If you eliminate most of the culprits, the reactions probably will decrease. Figuring out which to eliminate and which to eat more is the trick.

Pat


----------



## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

It might sound like it's "nuts" but I assure you it is not







The allergist my oldest son went to when he was little told me that she's *never* seen true excema that wasn't allergy related, FWIW. I find that very interesting.

For anyone interested in learning more about Feingold, please check out this Mothering Magazine article









I agree with sledg about the vigilant supervision and minimizing opportunities for the behavior to occur as much as possible. I know it's very challenging


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

LOL I believe it. I meant nuts as in wow never would have thought that!









DS's eczema literally shows up in the super cold dry weather or when we get to Florida and it's really humid. No diet changes.

I'm working on the behavioral stuff too.







He's really not a bad kid...just a bit sprited LOL!! I've been approaching things differently the past couple days and I can see some improvement...


----------



## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Have you read Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka? I'm assuming you have







All of her books, IMO, are must-reads for all parents who are interested in gentle, respectful solutions.


----------



## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Yep, love it!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Bumping.

Pat


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Almost a year later! How's it going, True Blue? Get any better?


----------

