# Should we ff or rf the car seat on the plane?



## SiobhanAoife (Jun 10, 2008)

My 34" 23lb 18mo daughter and I are flying coast-to-coast next week. She has her own seat and I'll be flying with the Scenera carseat because it's so much easier to lug about than her TrueFit.

Should she forward face or rear face?

In the car she has only ever ridden rear facing. But I do not know if there are other concerns with airplanes - is it hard to fit the seat in rear facing? is there a direction that is easier to secure correctly with the seat belt? I've only ever used latch and only ever rear faced so I don't really know about this stuff.

If she is forward facing, can the tray table come down effectively or will the car seat block it from coming all the way down?

Is one direction safer?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Rear facing is always safer, in both the airplane and the car. But while the dynamics of take-off and landing are similar to those in a plane, during the "cruise portion" of the flight, the biggest threat to safety is turbulence, not forward impact. Although I'm not aware of any studies, the direction of the seat logically, is not a factor when cruising.

The FAA supports your right to use your seat rear-facing, as long as it's per the manufacturer's instructions. You may want to bring your manual along. Having said that, there are aircraft with very narrow pitches that make rfing certain seats next to, or impossible. The FAA says this is reason to move the passengers.

Also, I keep getting reports on problems with F/A's. Here are some documents you may want to print up and take along.

Addressing rfing;
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../info09002.pdf

Longer document you might want to read through first;
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/60d70126cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC%20120-87A.pdf

You may want to bring a towel to roll up to get the correct angle rfing the Scenera. Some people prefer their children rfing on the airplane simply because they can't kick the seat in front and also toys don't get thrown and lost as easily.

Parents also have managed to fly ffing and then rf again in the car, without incident. Children seem to sense that it's different.

About the tray table, the Radian ffing is the only seat I know of which the tray table can be used. Otherwise, just take out the inflight magazine and use that (or whatever you want to bring).

Here are my non-commercial flying tips;
http://flyingwithchildren1.blogspot.com


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Personally, I'd RF her. I put my then-22mo FF for a flight and she was NOT happy about it. Her legs dangled and she complained about that, and she didn't sleep at all. Also, she kept kicking the seat in front of her.

We also use the scenera for travel, and I think it would fit in most plane seats RF (it's a small seat) though the person in front may not be able to recline. However, they won't have their seat kicked the whole flight....

The install with the airplane seatbelts is super easy. Much easier than, say, a lap & shoulder belt in a car. Probably easier than LATCH Just buckle it up and tighten the strap. Sometimes the buckle ends up in the kids back FF though. It didn't bother my kiddo, but I could see it being a problem for some. Maybe a seatbelt extender would solve this?


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Do whichever you can get a better recline with.

I dont worry at all about carseats on the plane, the point of bringing them on the plane is so they dont have to be checked in (and destroyed by baggage people). And to keep the kid contained and comfortable.

Is her head below the 'red line' on the TF? If it is, I would bring the TF and install it rearfacing without the headrest (weight isnt much of a concern on the plane). It fits really well. If you strap it to a rolly bag its easy to carry through the airport.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leighi123* 
Do whichever you can get a better recline with.

I dont worry at all about carseats on the plane, the point of bringing them on the plane is so they dont have to be checked in (and destroyed by baggage people). And to keep the kid contained and comfortable.

Is her head below the 'red line' on the TF? If it is, I would bring the TF and install it rearfacing without the headrest (weight isnt much of a concern on the plane). It fits really well. If you strap it to a rolly bag its easy to carry through the airport.

She'd still have to lug the headrest through the airport, and I certainly wouldn't be advising anyone to use the seat against the manufacturer's instructions









Luckily, the Scenera RF's great on planes. I too would RF her, mostly due to the fact that if she were FF she'd be kicking the seat in front of her constantly (or at least my kids did).


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## dmpmercury (Mar 31, 2008)

I am going to install mine foward facing on the plane even though they are rear facing in the car. The longer flight is a red eye and I am hoping they will sleep. I want the person in front of us to be able to recline their seat on a red eye flight. I am taking bigger seats and I don't know how well they will fit rear facing and if we will get a window seat. I wouldn't want the person next to us to have a hard time getting out if they need to. I don't think it matters to much on a plane. Foward facing they could kick the seat maybe and rear facing the person in front of you might not be able to recline.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dmpmercury* 
I am going to install mine foward facing on the plane even though they are rear facing in the car. The longer flight is a red eye and I am hoping they will sleep. I want the person in front of us to be able to recline their seat on a red eye flight. I am taking bigger seats and I don't know how well they will fit rear facing and if we will get a window seat. I wouldn't want the person next to us to have a hard time getting out if they need to. I don't think it matters to much on a plane. Foward facing they could kick the seat maybe and rear facing the person in front of you might not be able to recline.

Just FYI I believe that they legally have to reseat you so that a carseat won't block anyone in. Just going from what I've been told about where the carseat had to go when there were 3 of us in a row--carseat could not go between the parents and had to go closest to the window. Not sure what happens if there are 2 carseats.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Yes, they will reseat you as the car seat has to be by the window. Just let them knwo when you check in (or call the airline ahead of time).


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## dmpmercury (Mar 31, 2008)

Ok cool I wasn't sure about that. We have two adults and two children so we can't all sit together.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Why not? Check the aircraft but red eye's are usually on wide-bodies, with two aisles and often there are 4, even 5 in the center section. The car seat just can't go in an aisle seat.

Someone I think here posted that on their airline they could, but only certain models. I can't comment on that because both airlines I worked for didn't allow car seats on aisles.


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## dmpmercury (Mar 31, 2008)

It is not a two aisle wide plane. I would rather install in the middle if possible. My ds is 18 months and nurses before bedtime and I worried I'll be next to someone who has a problem with that. I would of been better off with both kids by me but thats not the tickets we have.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Using the car seat Rf is theoretically safer on a plane usually also more complicated. In real life RF or FF on planes makes no difference while it makes a huge difference in cars due to totally different forces. Safety on planes for kids is not an issue, even with lap belt or no belt. This has been shown many times by FAA stats.

Install your seat in a way that is fast, and allowed, and enjoy your trip! As a side note I'm flying Mexico City to Stockholm, Sweden tomorrow alone with a 3.5 and 6 year old. It's about a 20 hour trip door to door


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Just be prepared to deal with flight attendants who are not familiar with carseats. We were hassled mercilessly by a flight attendant when we RF our carseat because it prevented the seat in front of us from reclining. Luckily we were two adults and one child then, so my dh just switched seats with the person in front of the carseat.

If you are FF, be prepared to have to block your child's feet from kicking the seat in front of him or her for the entire flight.







There is just not enough room on most planes for anyone--adult or child!

Sorry about the negative tone . . . I just find that the airline industry in general goes out of their way to make flying for families as inconvenient as possible!


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## NorthernPixie (Dec 14, 2007)

I've had very mixed results with RF (or attempting to) on flights, with various airlines. I've been "made" to turn it FF a few times, even though I knew I was within my rights and had the manual with me. I was traveling alone though and decided not to risk getting kicked off the plane for something that I knew was fine, just not my preference. Ditto to having to prevent seat-in-front kicking the entire.freaking.flight though if you do end up FF. Fun times. Good luck!


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dmpmercury* 
if we will get a window seat. I wouldn't want the person next to us to have a hard time getting out if they need to. I don't think it matters to much on a plane.

It has been a while since I have flown...but all the times we did, the carseat had to be installed in a window seat for safety purposes. Otherwise in an emergency it would make it too difficult to for passengers on the other side to get in/out of the row of seats.


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## Skippy918 (Jul 15, 2008)

DS is 20 months and still RF in the car but in the plane we were on, I had to FF the seat cause it did not fit RF. I have a True Fit and we were in a Embraer regional jet. His feet were able to touch the seat in front of him, so after we reached cruising altitude, I reclined his seat and then pushed the carseat further back, thus preventing him from kicking the seat. He napped on both flights.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Just to clarify;

-a pp said it doesn't matter for safety. Not true. For take-off and landing, rfing is safer because the forces are similar to those in a car. It could make a difference but during "cruising", when the plane is at altitude, the concern is turbulence, not forward impact (like it is on take-off and landing) so at that time, no it doesn't make a difference. I've turned a seat around once in the air and turned it back rfing for landing. Do this if it works for you.

-Your right to rf is now confirmed by the FAA. Here is the document you may want to take with you;
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../info09002.pdf

-If you do run into problems, don't get paranoid about being kicked off the plane. Yes, it could happen but before things get heated, ask to _talk to the purser_. I used to hate to get called when an incident had already gotten out of hand and tempers were fired up. Trust me, the purser _wants_ to know what's going on, and wants to fix it. Just don't "get into it" and get who is in charge! I used to beg my crews, please call me, get me over and _I'll_ talk to them!

-Please write the airline and let them know about these incidents. This will not get fixed until we parents (notice how I switched hats) speak up and _let them know_. This is a customer driven industry and although they seem to forget that (and trust me, I get mistreated too!) it is their bottom line. There is also competition out there and they make money off of families too. Don't let one uneducated Flight Attendant ruin the whole experience or compromise your child's safety. Not worth it!

P.S. Do you think that some of you who are car seat techs can write the individual airlines and ask them to keep their employees better informed? Send them the above and ask them to make sure it's applied?? We used to get updates all the time for our manuals. This letter above was prompted when some of the techs over with the KDM foundation got upset over this and contacted the FAA.


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