# spanking



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

ok i know i'm going to yelled at but i want to know why i'm being yelled at for spanking or talking about spanking my child. its like you think i invented it and im the first person to do it. if youre trying to get people to switch to a gentler form of disclipline it seems youd be more friendly about it. like tell people spanking isnt good because of x y and z, these are other options u can use. i was raised on spankings, i'm only thirty and most of my generation or community and later was too. its not easy to make a 360 like that plus it probablt works for some people. i can count the spankings i got on 2 hands, and i was a wellll behaved child, no sex before 18, no teen pregnancies, drugs etc


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## myrrhmaid (Aug 20, 2002)

Spanking is self-indulgent, lazy behavior. As a parent you need better tools than that. You don't get out of the car and spank someone who has rear ended you, do you? No, you would be arrested.
Slapping a child's hands makes them inhibited and less willing to reach out into their world. That is a sad thing. In a healthy world the impulse to explore should be encouraged. This leads to greater love for life, higher IQ's and greater personal satisfaction.
It is up to you to create a safe place for your child to explore and live. A place that is nurturing, creative and stimulating. Spanking does not fit this criteria of important developmental tools for success, self esteem or self worth.
I hope that sheds a little light and gives you some insight on why so many of us don't indulge in this behavior.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Simply put, because it's against the rules:

Quote:

We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out, *physical punishment*, formula feeding, elective cesarean section, routine infant medical circumcision, or mandatory vaccinations.
Mothering.com has a pretty specific agenda, and while you may or not agree with it, this ain't freedom-of-speechville; it's a site with rules, and the users have to abide by those rules.


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

Can I recommend this URL ebony?

http://www.nospank.net/pt2007.htm
Plain Talk About Spanking.

Gentle discipline is the prefered form of behaviour on this forum ebony... While support is given towards parents who have spanked, or are fighting the urge to spank. The promotion, or any claim that it is an effective form of discipline will not be tolerated here ebony, it's against the User Agreement.

And you're right ebony, it's not easy to break behaviour like spanking, but the first step in the right decision is to research the negative effects that it has upon children.

Can I also recommend Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting to you?

I have no interest in judging you, I was raised in the spanking environment too and I realise how difficult it to to overcome the belief that it is effective discipline.

Maybe checking out the Consensual Living thread will help to provide some insight into alternative methods of working with your children towards mutually agreeable solutions to problems.http://www.mothering.com/discussions...sensual+Living

Peace


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
if youre trying to get people to switch to a gentler form of disclipline it seems youd be more friendly about it. like tell people spanking isnt good because of x y and z, these are other options u can use.

Mothers who come here asking for help with understanding gentle discipline and who _want_ to find alternatives to spanking are given many loving gentle answers to their questions and much help advice and help to make the "360". If you come here trying to defend spanking, you are not welcome. The user agreement states that clearly.

As far as the "I was spanked and I'm fine" argument, and all the other "look that happened to me and I'm fine" crud. It's getting really old. That's just a cop-out. It says, "if I'm fine, then I don't have to do the research to see if it is really alright for my child." The Romans drank and ate out of lead cups and they were fine...until they weren't.







Teflon was fine, until they discovered it isn't. Plastic was great...until they found out it's not.








Step out of the box, ykwim? Hitting another person is abuse and they learn nothing from it but fear. All you have to do is stop.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Ebony, I'm not going to judge you because I too understand what it's like to be raised in an environment where spanking is a totally normal form of discipline. I know how hard it is to break away from that idea.

And ultimately, after much thought, I concluded that if it assault for an adult to hit another adult, then surely it must be assault if an adult hits a child. I know that is not recognised in the law, but why are the two situations treated so differently?

Anyway, like pps have said, spanking is not up for debate here- & it's certainly not to be advocated for.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Ebony, just because something works, it isn't necessarily something that I'm going to do. I could give my child sedatives every night to make him fall asleep, and that would work, but I'm not going to do it, kwim?

When I was a child being spanked, I decided that I would never do that to anyone.

Are you interested in alternatives?


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

i want my children to look at my hands as helpers...filled with love. i never, ever want my kids to fear me.

punishment doesn't make sense, and it doesn't work. positive and negative reinforcement are MUCH more effective...

my child is being mean, so i HIT her. what does that teach? that hitting is okay? that...being mean is only okay when mommy does it? that...when someone does something wrong, we strike out physically? LOOK at it...because that's exactly what physical punishment reinforces.

in some countries, corporal punishment is illegal. i wish it were, here, as well...it's illegal for me to strike another adult, why not my child?

not to mention, it's lazy parenting. there are so many more involved ways of discipline that work better and foster a better relationship between parent and child, they just take a bit more thought.


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## EvansMomma (Mar 7, 2006)

You know what?
I am not trying to sound mean or anything.
But I come HERE because it's where I dont have to convince someone that GD is the way to go...where I don't have to feel like I have to defend my beliefs....where I can feel safe knowing that I probably won't read that someone spanks their children or allows spanking in their homes.

If you really do want other alternatives, then the mamas here are the best in the biz....but if you just want to prove us wrong, then this is not the place for that.


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:

and i was a wellll behaved child, no sex before 18, no teen pregnancies, drugs etc
well I was/am a teenage mother and did quite the variety of drugs and was also spanked as a child and what changed my point of view was:
One night when dd was 3mo my dad and I were having a conversation and he suddenly started crying and it turned into sobbing and I asked him what was wrong and he said when he looked into dd's eyes he saw his little girl and then he saw every time I would scream in fear and run like hell to my room when he was about to spank me and as he held my dd he realised how everytime he had spanked me it had been for something trival like me pouring all the hand soap on the floor to "clean" it or lighting matches in the bathroom and now he saw how wrong he was he was seriously sobbing and caling himself a monster........ and trufully instead of acting like a stupid teenager I have decided to learn from my fathers mistake and never abuse my daughter because all hitting is abuse no matter how you try to sugarcoat it....


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Ok, does anyone see the Google ads at the bottom of this page? It reads: "Hair brush spankings" and "Exotic Spanking Paddles: Highest quality exotic woods Boutique level finishing kittysexoticpaddles.com"








:

Too freakin funny. THAT is also why spanking is ridiculous.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myrrhmaid* 
Spanking is self-indulgent, lazy behavior.

I'll take the T-Shirt and the bumper sticker, thanks!


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Ebony,

There are LOTS of parents on this site that understand being raised with spanking. All of us survived. This doesn't make it okay.

I understand the reflex. The twitch. The itch/urge to hit or strike out when angered or under stress. I too, was taught this is the way to deal with "wayward" children. In this case however, the end doesn't justify the means.

There are so many resources and so much reading you can do. SO many alternatives that will give you options other than striking your children physically. I want my children to KNOW that I love them, even if I'm having to discipline them. I do not want them to feel shamed, embarrassed or small. I don't want to bully my children into obeying me. This is what hitting our children does. Mom becomes a bully. I refuse to do this.

Hitting hits home for so many of us on this site, that it is difficult to see posts like yours without responding emotionally. I firmly believe that if you are hitting your children, you are doing them harm. Period.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

(((Ebony))) it is a hard switch I still struggle with both thinking in a punitive way and even with spanking even though weve never been spankers. I've slipped and have swatted my DD and its never been justified. We move on and do better.
I like others though come here because of our very strong real feelings against punishment and spankings. Its very nice to be someplace where I dont have to explain why I didn't punish or spank or yell at ect my DD. Its a safe place tus the board rule against promoting physcial punishment.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

This is a forum devoted to learning about and practicing gentle, respectful and non-violent discipline. Honestly, to advocate hitting children, in addition to violating the forum guidelines, is a little like going into the Case against Circumcision forum and defending circumcision or going into the Lactivism forum defending formula-feeding by choice as equal to breastfeeding (i am not saying you are advocating hitting kids -- just that it happens periodically here and is very disheartening and inappropriate in this forum).

I think most people here understand the culture of violence we live in, many were hit as children and many struggle with resisting the impulse to hit their children. We are here to support those who are trying not to hit and to brainstorm other more effective and respectful ways to teach our children.

If you want reasons not to hit, I'd suggest checking out some of the stickies at the top of this forum. A simple google search will yield tons of research and reasons why hitting children is not a good idea. Even mainstream publications like Parents magazine agree that the vast majority of experts and studies conclude that hitting kids results in more anti-social behaviors in the long-term (see the November issue). In fact, other than some extremist resources (like the baby-whipping websites), it is virtually impossible to find studies that support hitting young people.

Finally, many of us see this as a human rights issue. Just as we do not hit adults when we are angry, or to try to "teach" them through pain, so should we refrain from hitting young people.

I hope you stick around and that you learn lots in this forum. There is a ton of collective wisdom here. I know I've learned a ton!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

As far as the "I was spanked and I'm fine" goes, my mom smokes 2 packs a day, and has for years, and she's fine. So...ymmv

Spanking is hitting, and we are all well aware that hitting an adult is not legal (unless its consensual stuff, yk). So why is it not ok to hit a 150lb adult, but it is ok to hit a 30lb toddler?
I imagine that it was/is viewed as ok because kids are seen as possessions, and not as people in their own right.

On a more practical level, I'd say that spanking isn't right because it interferes with connection, which imo is one of the most important parts of (gentle) discipline.
It seems that a lot of kids get sucked up into that power struggle just as much as parents do. It becomes a me vs. them type thinking, and in that type of situation its hard to come to a win win solution, yk? So they are more likely to do the offending action again, or to "act out" in other ways.
I can't imagine wanting to be on the opposing team to my ds. I think life is much easier when there is cooperation most of the time.

We want kids to end up self-disciplined, and spanking isn't going to help with that! Punishment makes kids behave for self centered reasons (at best- sometimes it makes behavior worse). So you punish dc for hitting the dog- his reason for not hitting the dog is that he doesn't want to get punished. Where if you don't punish, it might take a little bit longer (in my case it was about 2 days) and he's not hitting the dog, and his reason is that he knows that the dog doesn't like to be hit, and it hurts her. And he knows what he can do instead to tell her to move out of his way.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
ok i know i'm going to yelled at but i want to know why i'm being yelled at for spanking or talking about spanking my child. its like you think i invented it and im the first person to do it. if youre trying to get people to switch to a gentler form of disclipline it seems youd be more friendly about it. like tell people spanking isnt good because of x y and z, these are other options u can use. i was raised on spankings, i'm only thirty and most of my generation or community and later was too. its not easy to make a 360 like that plus it probablt works for some people. i can count the spankings i got on 2 hands, and i was a wellll behaved child, no sex before 18, no teen pregnancies, drugs etc

This sounds like more than one question.

If the question is, "why shouldn't I spank?" then boy, do we have links and arguments for miles against spanking around here! It's part of the ethos of the board so most of the members are really passionate about it.

If the question is, "why are you YELLING about not spanking?" well, that's because in spite of our desire to be good at this gentle discipline stuff, we just aren't yet. Also, it's the internet and not everyone can control his or her tone in writing.

If the question is, "help me figure out what to do instead of spanking"--this is the right place to ask. There is a lot of good discussion here of what discipline is effective, what discipline is ethical--all those good questions.

I want to say that I think what sometimes works about parenting _with_ spankings is not the spanking, but the other things that go with it, that contextualize and ameliorate it. A loving family that pays a lot of attention to children is the place to develop good behavior, whether or not there is punishment. I believe you get the best results without punishment, but with guidance. It was the moral authority of our parents and grandparents, and not the hitting, that enabled them to guide us.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

As for the "I was hit and I am fine" argument:

In addition to the fact that this argument fails to prove that hitting is beneficial/not wrong (think of all of us who never rode in carseats and are "just fine" or all of us who never breastfed and are "just fine"), please consider this:

There is abundant evidence out there that parents do not need to hit kids in order for kids to grow up to be disciplined, law-abiding, happy adults. Look at all of the countries that have already outlawed hitting kids. Juvenile crime rates do not soar in those countries after such a law is enacted. Personally, I have never been hit in my life and I am a law-abiding adult -- in fact, I am a prosecutor!

So if the fallacy of the "I am fine" argument doesn't persuade, please at least consider that violence in childrearing is entirely unnecessary (in addition to being harmful)! Those of us who never have been hit may be in the minority, but we are fine too! In fact, I always think that my parents' decision not to hit me was one of their greatest gifts to me.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

If you hit your spouse- it's assault.

If you hit your grandma- it's assault.

Why on earth would it be okay to hit your CHILD?

Hitting is wrong. It is not an acceptable parenting tool.

It is abuse. It is assault. There is no excuse.

-Angela


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I was hit and I'm not fine.


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## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

Just because we "turned out ok" doesn't mean we can't do things to help our children turn out even better.

If you are working toward doing a 180 (and turning to the other direction) please read:

http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
As for the "I was hit and I am fine" argument:

In addition to the fact that this argument fails to prove that hitting is beneficial/not wrong (think of all of us who never rode in carseats and are "just fine" or all of us who never breastfed and are "just fine"), please consider this:

And that my grandpa actually played with mercury- many times. He's fine at 78 years old.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Ditto all the pps.

I think you have a point, ebony, about the tone around here sometimes. It always strikes me as odd that we are talking about gentle discipline with our children but it's often not followed through here or with other women. I always wonder how this works with kiddos since modeling is so hugely influencial on them. I know they can't read our words here but I wonder if the tone I see around here is carried over IRL.

I empathize with your feelings of not being gently responded to. It sounds to me like your OP was a bit of a vent about this? Anyway, it is a long, hard journey and the issue of spanking is really worth looking into deeply and carefully.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Ebony, in another post you mentioned the Black community so I am making an assumption that you are Black. The reason I am bringing that up is because I am Black and I know culturally our discipline has always been more towards the coroporal end of things and not hitting is viewed as indulgent or should I say white







:.

That said when I first came to MDC almost 3 years ago I was like of course I will spank, did it with my eldest, I was spanked, so what's the big deal??

Well the big aha moment for me was the fact that in a moment of weakness when dd was a little over 1, I popped her on the hand and well long story short it was ineffective. Also with my dd's personality I could see that she would be the type of kid who would turn it on me so I was forced out of my zone to learn other ways to discipline. Honestly I have not looked back and when I realized that in fact I had been harmed by being spanked.

See in my family growing up it was dad who meted out the spankings and to this day I am not that comfortable around my Dad, he was a strict disciplinarian.. I'm sure you know the type, old school from the south that would make you pick your own switch to get hit with














:.

Yet my Mom never hit me and I never was scared of her like my father, I love my Dad but to this day, I am certain his spanking left a gap between us. I don't ever want my children to feel that way about me.

I had my eldest at 18 and sadly fell into spanking because I thought it was what I had to do but looking back it never felt right and the last time I spanked him was when he was 4, he will be 16 in a couple months.

I say all this to say that I think its easy to hold onto spanking but its so harmful, especially for me, my Mom died 3.5 years ago and I have a very tenous relationship with my Dad but how the hell do you feel comfy with someone who broke trust by hitting.

The reason people here are so adamant against speaking aside from the fact its against the UA but that its harmful to kids. Whatever momentary sense of control is gained by spanking means harm to the overall relationship so what good is it to get the child to do what you want when it means the overall relationship is broken? Hopefully I am making sense.

By the way I think the reason people may be so agressive and less than gentle is that we all just want what's best for kids.

Shay


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## catchthewind (Jan 11, 2006)

I think I've read through all the posts here so hopefully I don't repeat anything. My baby is not yet at an age where spanking has been an issue (not that it will be for us, neither of us believe in it), but I thought I'd add a little more insight into why we're not doing it. I hope that you are asking because you truly want to know and are interested in alternatives.

First of all, it "works" because your child is afraid of you. I know it is a hard concept to get past, not only if you were spanked as a child but because that is how government often tries to rule people too. Vaccinate your children or they will die of dreadful diseases, the global warming issue, etc. Fear is a very common way of controlling people and it "works" as long as that fear exists. However, take away that fear, and the child's reason for not doing something is taken away too. I don't want to control my child.

I love my father and am very close to him now, but when I was a kid he did spank us. He also often told us how much he loved us and did all sorts of things with us. I can count on one hand the number of times he spanked me. BUT some of my most vivid childhood memories are of him yelling at me and spanking me. Do you want your child to be an adult and thinking back to her childhood and remembering cringing in her room in fear listening to her dad/mom yelling at her and then finding her and spanking? What if you're wrong? One of the times, he was wrong, and it was actually my sister who had done whatever he spanked me for. I was crying and saying it wasn't me, it wasn't me. To give him credit, he apologized after when he found out I was telling the truth and it wasn't me, and I think that was the last time I or my sisters ever got spanked.

It also doesn't set an example for your kids. How can you teach your children not to hit when you do it? Do as I say and not as I do does not work for kids. My parents fought constantly. Screaming, yelling matches, and quite often (weekly or more, they should have got divorced but that's a different thread entirely). One day in high school a friend of mine was upset because her parents had yelled at each other the night before for the first time. I was shocked, I didn't know until I was 16 years old that people could settle disagreements without yelling. My sister handled every argument or upset by flying off the handle and screaming at everyone around her until she was 21 and realized how insane she looked. She told me recently she didn't know there were alternatives.

And like others have said, it is abuse. Maybe a slap on the hand or a swat on the bottom don't seem like it, but to me it is. If you don't agree with me, I read a scenario once that stuck with me and I really like. Line 1000 kids up in a row. The first one gets a little tap on the hand when he/she does something wrong. The 1000th kid gets a real beating/needs to be hospitalized. The kids in between get varying degrees in between. Where do you draw the line and say that this kid is getting abused and this one is "just" getting disciplined?

Good luck, I hope the fact that you are in this forum means you are looking for gentler alternatives for disciplining your children and that you get some great information from the mamas here. I sure do.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

Cherrybomb and youngmama08


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Ibtl...


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

There's nothing wrong with coming here and saying "I want to learn about gentle discipline so that I can stop spanking" or even "I spanked my child today- help me figure out another way to handle this situation so I don't resort to spanking in the future." It's even OK to post that repeatedly, if you're working hard to overcome using physical discipline on your children and slip up from time to time. The point is understanding that hitting children is wrong and trying to stop, even if you can't stop all at once.

This forum is anti-spanking. You're not allowed to post about "discipline techniques" that involve an adult hitting a child on purpose. It's simply not what this forum is about.


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## debbieh (Apr 22, 2007)

I agree with the others here. And besides, how does it make YOU feel when you hurt your child? I know that when my oldest 2 were little, I spanked them a couple of times. I spent the next several days crying about it. It made me feel terrible, like a big bully. And then I had to ask myself, "did I have my babies so that I could hurt them?" and the answer was a big fat NO! I figured that anything that made me feel that bad surely couldn't be good for them either. So I learned other, more effective disciplining methods, which worked far better on them and my youngest when she came along.

I too was spanked as a child. Does that make it ok? No. My dad has since told my mother that he feels guilt every day for "being so mean to" his kids. I want my children to have good memories of their childhood, of me...not to live with the fear that I lived with, everytime I expressed myself, spilt milk or anything else that would bring on the spankings. And I certainly do not want to spend my "golden years" feeling sad that I spanked my children.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

like tell people spanking isnt good because of x y and z, these are other options u can use.
Did you see the sticky's at the top of the Gentle Discipline forum:

*Alternatives To Punishment*
_Copy this list and post it where you can see it, as a constant reminder._

*Use positive reinforcement.

Create a positive environment.

Say yes as much as possible.

Save no for the important things.

Use natural consequences.

Use logical consequences.

Use restitution.

Leave it up to your child.

Compromise.

State your expectations, and get out of the way.

Give specific instructions.

Give a reason.

Offer help.

Give a choice.

Redirect your child.

Remove your child.

Make positive statements.

Give in occasionally.

Give your child time to agree.

Simply insist.

Make rules.

Ignore some behavior.

Avoid nagging and threats.

Distract your child.

Use humor.

Make it a game.

Be willing to admit your mistakes.

Stop and think before you act.

Don't make a big fuss over little things.

Stick to routines.

Don't hurry your children too much.

Get to the root of the problem.

Correct one behavior at a time.

Give yourselves time.

Use the golden rule.

Model appropriate behavior.

Think of your child as an equal.

Always keep your love for your child in mind.*

From the book Natural Family Living by Peggy O'Mara, editor and publisher of Mothering Magazine









*Anti-Spanking Resources*
*Websites:*

http://www.nospank.net

http://www.neverhitachild.org

http://www.nopunish.net/

http://www.naturalchild.org/

Ten Reasons Not to Spank

http://www.stophitting.com/

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/homepage.html

http://www.stoptherod.net

http://www.parentinginjesusfootsteps.org

http://www.ezzo.info

http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/0405/Sept13_04/24.shtml

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/childhealthmonth/spank.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin4.htm

Alphie Kohn

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...s/rodstudy.php

*Helpful Books:*

The Truth Will Set You Free by Alice ******

For Your Own Good by Alice ******

Thou Shalt Not Be Aware: Society's Betrayal of the Child by Alice ******

Without Spanking or Spoiling by Elizabeth Crary

***The Long-Awaited Gentle Discipline Book List!***
*Gentle Discipline Book List 
Compiled by your GD Forum Friends, February 2004
*
~Please PM a moderator with any suggestions/concerns/additions to this list! Some titles still need summaries and sponsors!!~

Support Mothering and buy these books through Powells!







You can see reviews for the books at Powells too - links placed.









*Becoming the Parent You Want to Be by Laura Davis and Janis Keyser.*
*suggested by captain optimism*
Takes a developmental approach to parenting according to your values. Emphasizes honoring your child's impulses and feelings and creating situations in which they can learn to become the child they want to be!

*Link from Powells: http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0553067508

Website for book: http://www.becomingtheparent.com/all/hp.html
*
*Biblical Parenting by Crystal Lutton
suggested by phathui5*
Based on biblical teachings, GBD (grace based discipline) is a nurturing, God-centered approach to parenting your child from birth to adulthood. Taking the stand that parenting is a covenant and not a burden, GBD insists on the formation of loving bonds of trust and mutual respect that begin at birth and will carry on throughout a lifetime.
Her website: http://www.aolff.org/

*Link from Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/193058668x*

*Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline by Becky Bailey, Ph.d.
suggested by LoveBeads* 
This book starts with the premise that you have a choice in how to raise your kids so that they cooperate with you: you can raise them with fear, or you can raise them with love.

I think this book is wonderful and I hope you all do to! From discussions of age appropriate behavior to the intolerance of spanking or otherwise humiliating a child, this book covers it all! The thing about it that is unique is that it forces you to address ALL aspects of your life, not just child-rearing since the way you ARE is intrinsically linked to how you parent.

Any questions, I am more than happy to answer!

*Link from Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0688161162*

*Giving the Love that Heals by Harville Hendrix
suggested by Piglet68*

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0671793993*

*How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber
suggested by Piglet68*

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0380570009

Website about the author:

http://fabermazlish.com/about.htm*

*Kid Cooperation by Elizabeth Pantley
suggested by mamasan*

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1572240407*

*Kids Are Worth It : Giving Your Child The Gift Of Inner Discipline by Barbara Coloroso
suggested by akirasmama and journeymom*

Journeymom writes:

Quote:
Coloroso says that there are three types of parents--Jellyfish, Brickwall, and Backbone. The first two muck it up royally by being too wishy-washy or too firm. The parent with a backbone, however, can be stern when necessary and provide structure yet have the flexibility that children and families need. Coloroso applies these models to a variety of parenting situations, from toilet training to curfew setting.
I especially like how she clearly defines the "brickwall" parents (authoritarian, oppressive, do more harm than good), the "jellyfish" parents (permissive, wants to be their child's friend, do more harm than good) and "backbone" parents, who find a sane, sensible, loving, accepting and firm middle ground. I knew there had to be parents out there who parent this way, but all the parenting books I was reading were too much of the Brickwall style (I'd put Ezzo at the end of the spectrum here) or too much of the Jellyfish way. Or just didn't give specific advice on what to do when your child does thus-and-such.

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0380719541*

*Parenting from the Inside Out Daniel J. Siegel and Mary Hartzell
suggested by water*

This is a book for those of us, like ME who are dealing with our own sh*t from childhood and how it is affecting us as parents. Especially with regards to my anger, I have found it very helpful in explaining some of the possible underlying reasons, and what I can do about it. It is fairly technical in places, but I like that. It also has good exercises for you to do to understand your own reactions to your child and where those reactions are coming from.

*Playful Parenting by Lawrence J. Cohen
suggested by mrzmeg*

Explains the idea that play is necessary to children and provides a unique way for them to connect and bond with their parents, and can also be used as a valuable tool to help prevent conflict and discipline problems.

*Link from Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1585422959*

*Positive Discipline and Positive Discipline A to Z.
by Jane Nelsen, PhD
suggested by journeymom*

I love and use regularly as a reference Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen, PhD. I took a class based on this book last summer, through dd's school district. It picks up where Kids Are Worth It leaves off, in that -she helps you get into your child's mind to figure out why s/he is misbehaving. They do this when "they are thwarted in their need to feel they belong and in their need for love and attention".- Then she advises how to respond to your child's specific needs based on each situation.
I highly recommend as a referrence along with it, Positive Discipline A to Z. It's even more specific, kind of like a dictionary how-to. Everything from "aggression" to "zits".

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0345442865*

*Raising Your Spirited Child and Kids, Parents and Power Struggles both by Mary Sheed Kurcinka.
suggested by Elphaba*

Quote:
In Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles, she offers unique approaches to solving the daily, and often draining, power struggles between you and your child. Kurcinka views these conflicts as rich opportunities to teach your child essential life skills, like how to deal with strong emotions and problem solve. With her successful strategies, you'll be able to identify the trigger situations that set off these struggles and get to the root of the emotions and needs of you and your child.

Quote:
Spirited kids are, in fact, simply "more"--by temperament, they are more intense, sensitive, perceptive, persistent, and uncomfortable with change than the average child.Through vivid examples and a refreshingly positive viewpoint, Mary Sheedy
Kurcinka offers parents emotional support and proven strategies for handling their spirited child.

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0060923288*

*Relational Parenting by Dr. Ross Campbell
suggested by heythere heather*

I actually read this when Erik was a newborn, but it changed my perspective, and got me looking forward to positive discipline. Here's a quote from an article he wrote about it:
Quote:
As parents, we all have a mental and emotional picture of what we want for our children. As we think of the many facets of their lives, we know in our hearts that we need to prepare them for life. This means reaching out to their emotions and their spirits, as well as to their minds and bodies. We must learn to raise positive, strong kids in a troubled world.

Parenting is about much more than just controlling behavior. It takes a whole different approach to parenting to help your child eventually take responsibility for her own behavior. Positive, relational parenting is based on four important foundation stones.

And here's a link to the whole article, a very good summary:
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_...3D50018,00.html

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0802463932*

*Smart Love by Martha Heineman Pieper and William Pieper
suggested by mamasan*

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1558321829*

*
The Discipline Book by Dr. Sears

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0316779032

The Continuum Concept : In Search of Happiness Lost
by Jean Liedloff

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0201050714

Website:

http://www.continuum-concept.org/

Attachment Parenting: Instinctive Care for Your Baby and Young Child
by Katie Allison Granju, Betsy Kennedy

Link from Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/067102762x

Natural Family Living : The Mothering Magazine Guide to Parenting
by Peggy O'Mara, et al

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0671027441

Our Babies, Ourselves : How Biology and Culture Shape the Way We Parent
by Meredith F. Small

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0385483627

The Mother Trip : Hip Mama's Guide to Staying Sane in the Chaos of Motherhood
by Ariel Gore, Ellen Forney (Illustrator)

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1580050298

The Baby Book : Everything You Need to Know About Your Baby from Birth to Age Two
by William Sears, Martha Sears

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0316779059

Becoming the Parent You Want to Be : A Sourcebook of Strategies for the First Five Years
by Laura Davis, Janis Keyser

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0553067508

The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding
by Gwen Gotsch, Judy Torgus

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0452285801

Magical Child
by Joseph Chilton Pearce

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0452267897

Natural Learning Rhythms : Discovering How and When Your Child Learns
by Josette Luvmour, Sambhava Luvmour

Link to Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...82445?v=glance









The Path of Parenting
by Vimala McClure

Link to Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...82445?v=glance









When Your Child Drives You Crazy
by Eda Leshan, Catherine Whitney

Link to alibris:

http://www.alibris.com/search/search...r6bM0VlwTKXI2w

Love and Anger : The Parental Dilemma
by Nancy Samalin, Catherine Whitney

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0140129928

Why Can't I Be the Parent I Want to Be? : End Old Patterns and Enjoy Your Children
by Charles H. Elliott, Laura L. Smith

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1572241713

The Aware Baby
by Aletha J., Ph.D. Solter

Link to Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...82445?v=glance









Helping Young Children Flourish
by Aletha Jauch, Solter

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0961307315

Everyday Blessings : The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting
by Myla Kabat-Zinn, Jon Kabat-Zinn

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0786861762

Laughter and Tears : The Emotional Life of New Mothers
by Elizabeth Bing, et al

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0805041575

Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles : Winning for a Lifetime
by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0060930438

Raising a Thinking Child : Help Your Young Child to Resolve Everyday Conflicts and Get Along With Others : The 'I Can Problem Solve' Program
 by Myrna B. Shure, et al

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0805027580

Parenting Young Children : Systematic Training for Effective Parenting (Step) of Children Under Six
by Don C. Dinkmeyer

Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0785411895

The Whole Parent : How to Become a Terrific Parent Even If You Didn't Have One
by Debra Wesselmann

Twenty Alternatives to Punishment (this is just a list, not a book)
http://www.awareparenting.com/twenty.htm
by Aletha Solter, Ph.D.

The Natural Child Project
at www.naturalchild.org

*

*The Family Virtues Guide by Linda Kavenlin Popov
suggested by Mamasan*

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0452278104*

*The Five Love Languages of Children by Gary D. Chapmafn
suggested by HeatherSanders*

*Link from Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/1881273652*

A quote from Powell's:
Quote:
According to the authors, each child expresses and receives love through one of five different communication styles. A parent's love language may be totally different from that of his or her child, which causes hurt feelings and misunderstandings. With the help of this book, adults can discover their child's primary language and learn what they can do to effectively convey unconditional feelings of respect, affection, and commitment that will resonate in their child's emotions and behavior.

Jeff and I took this course when I was still pregnant with Meredith and loved it. There was much food for thought and it really even started helping me understand more about Jeff's love language too (they have this book for teens, wives and husbands, etc. . . too).
The Power of Postitive Parenting, by Glenn Latham

*Powerful Struggles--managing resistance, building rapport--by John Maag
Parenting without Punishment-by John Maag
suggested by scoutycat*

http://www.proedinc.com/store/index....detail&id=9684

*The Secret of Parenting: How to Be in Charge of Today's Kids--from Toddlers to Preteens--Without Threats or Punishment by Anthony E. Wolf
suggested by TranscendentalMom*

This is the perfect book that explains how to discipline gently and firmly. The main quality that is unique about this book is that the advice is so practical. So many books I have read on GD are so theoretical...its hard to understand how to apply the ideals to everyday situations. In Wolf's book he gives scripts...which show the logical way that conversations and arguments go based on the way you respond to your child. His idea of "disengaging" is so simple and yet so effective. Every parent should OWN this book...so you can highlight and go back and read again and again.

*Link to Powells:

http://www.powells.com/partner/26121/biblio/0374527083

* *Gentle Discipline Forum Guidelines*
Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children.

Quote:
Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.

Hitting is never the best way to teach a child. Even in the case of real danger - as when a child runs out into the road - you can grab him, sit him down, look him in the eyes, and tell him why he must never do that again. The panic in your voice will communicate your message much more effectively than any spanking. You can be dramatic without being abusive.

'Natural Family Living' by Peggy O'Mara
Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children. Personal preferences for and encouragement of use of physical punishment are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.

Please feel free to discuss your problems and needs with the intent to learn more about Gentle Discipline.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

: I guess that's about it then.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shayinme* 
The reason people here are so adamant against speaking aside from the fact its against the UA but that its harmful to kids. Whatever momentary sense of control is gained by spanking means harm to the overall relationship so what good is it to get the child to do what you want when it means the overall relationship is broken? Hopefully I am making sense.

By the way I think the reason people may be so agressive and less than gentle is that we all just want what's best for kids.

Shay

Yes. Exactly. Thank you, Shay, for beautifully expressing my thoughts as well.

Now, back to read the replies....


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
Ditto all the pps.

I think you have a point, ebony, about the tone around here sometimes. It always strikes me as odd that we are talking about gentle discipline with our children but it's often not followed through here or with other women. I always wonder how this works with kiddos since modeling is so hugely influencial on them. I know they can't read our words here but I wonder if the tone I see around here is carried over IRL.

I empathize with your feelings of not being gently responded to. It sounds to me like your OP was a bit of a vent about this? Anyway, it is a long, hard journey and the issue of spanking is really worth looking into deeply and carefully.

I completely agree with this, it is something that I have considered many times during my time @ MDC.

And a big thank you to WuWei for providing all of those links, she makes me feel lazy in comparison









Peace


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
well I was/am a teenage mother and did quite the variety of drugs and was also spanked as a child and what changed my point of view was:
One night when dd was 3mo my dad and I were having a conversation and he suddenly started crying and it turned into sobbing and I asked him what was wrong and he said when he looked into dd's eyes he saw his little girl and then he saw every time I would scream in fear and run like hell to my room when he was about to spank me and as he held my dd he realised how everytime he had spanked me it had been for something trival like me pouring all the hand soap on the floor to "clean" it or lighting matches in the bathroom and now he saw how wrong he was he was seriously sobbing and caling himself a monster........ and trufully instead of acting like a stupid teenager I have decided to learn from my fathers mistake and never abuse my daughter because all hitting is abuse no matter how you try to sugarcoat it....









: That is so heartwarming.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
Ditto all the pps.

I think you have a point, ebony, about the tone around here sometimes. It always strikes me as odd that we are talking about gentle discipline with our children but it's often not followed through here or with other women. I always wonder how this works with kiddos since modeling is so hugely influencial on them. I know they can't read our words here but I wonder if the tone I see around here is carried over IRL.

I empathize with your feelings of not being gently responded to. It sounds to me like your OP was a bit of a vent about this? Anyway, it is a long, hard journey and the issue of spanking is really worth looking into deeply and carefully.


I agree with this. I'm guilty of it myself!


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
ok i know i'm going to yelled at but i want to know why i'm being yelled at for spanking or talking about spanking my child. its like you think i invented it and im the first person to do it. if youre trying to get people to switch to a gentler form of disclipline it seems youd be more friendly about it. like tell people spanking isnt good because of x y and z, these are other options u can use. i was raised on spankings, i'm only thirty and most of my generation or community and later was too. its not easy to make a 360 like that plus it probablt works for some people. i can count the spankings i got on 2 hands, and i was a wellll behaved child, no sex before 18, no teen pregnancies, drugs etc

Well all I gotta say is I was flamed for mentioning something forbidden too







:and I was peeved







:about it. But, it all boils down to UA,UA,UA. Don't sweat it...it's just the way it is. I think for all the good stuff that goes on here at MDC I can overlook certain differences of opinion, and talk about other things that won't get me in trouble!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magali* 
I think for all the good stuff that goes on here at MDC I can overlook certain differences of opinion, and talk about other things that won't get me in trouble!









Hitting children is not a difference of opinion.







:

-Angela


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Hitting children is not a difference of opinion.







:

-Angela

If someone has an _opinion_ that it is ok, and someone has an _opinion_ that it is not..... be it abuse or what have you, opinions are opinions.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magali* 
I think it is if someone has an opinion that it is ok, and someone has an opinion that it is not. Be it abuse or what have you, opinions are opinions.

No. There are things that are right and wrong. I should hope that no one here would say that it's okay to have the "opinion" that burning children with cigarettes and locking them in closets is okay.

Same thing. Hitting children is simply wrong. That's fact. Not opinion.

-Angela


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magali* 
If someone has an _opinion_ that it is ok, and someone has an _opinion_ that it is not..... be it abuse or what have you, opinions are opinions.

I agree.
What someone believes to be fact can be opinion to one and vice versa.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

There ARE universal rights and wrongs. I don't think anyone would argue that murder (not self defense etc) is okay.

This is a universal WRONG. Yes, it's tragic that so many refuse to see it. Doesn't change it.

Hitting children is WRONG. Period. Forever. Always. By anyone. Wrong.

Black and white.

-Angela


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

There's this big movement of post-modernism lately. What is the truth for one might not be truth for another. But I agree with angela. There are simple rights and wrongs in the world - there are objective truths. One of those simple truths is that it is wrong for an adult to hit a child in every circumstance.


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## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
No. There are things that are right and wrong. I should hope that no one here would say that it's okay to have the "opinion" that burning children with cigarettes and locking them in closets is okay.

Same thing. Hitting children is simply wrong. That's fact. Not opinion.

-Angela

According to YOU. Last time I checked though (*thank God*) Angela wasn't the be-all end-all of fact vs opinion, even though its very clear you fancy yourself to be.


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## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

OP, i hope you can look beyond the self-righteous tone adopted by many and reach for the insight that is provided by mothers with wisdom and sensitivity.

when you say people turn out okay, inspite of having been spanked, you may need to consider that there are variable factors and types of environment which contribute to a child's sense of well-being. there is NEVER a guarantee that EVERYONE will emerge unscathed from the experience of being spanked. would you really want to take that chance? SOME wise mamas on this thread have provided lots of useful information which i hope will enhance your understanding about changing parenting styles (that one has grown up with) for the better. after all, a happy child is every parent's goal.


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
No. There are things that are right and wrong. I should hope that no one here would say that it's okay to have the "opinion" that burning children with cigarettes and locking them in closets is okay.

Same thing. Hitting children is simply wrong. That's fact. Not opinion.

-Angela

I gotta say I agree with you...a little. In my _opinion_ hitting children is wrong. I have evaluated my _opinion_ and in my mind it is fact. At MDC the fact is all forms of child hitting are wrong. Now, not everybody in real life agrees with this. People have different views of spanking, and while here at MDC spanking is in the same category as the horrific acts mentioned above, not all parents see it that way. We can only hope that mom's who come to MDC and maybe never thought about the damage spanking is doing to their kids, might come to change their _opinions_ of spanking through the communication here. That is all, I'm done with this.


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## Penelope (Jul 22, 2003)

Closing this thread until the GD mods have a chance to look it over. Thanks for your patience, everybody.


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