# Concerns about Health Care



## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Has anybody read the real details of the Health Care bill themselves? The government will have full say over what care we legally get for our bodies. Much of it is undefined and left open to be dictated by an appointed official. From what I understand, care providers will no longer be able to take out of pocket payment if they take health care plan patients, that would drive anybody who chose only OOP out of business. So if we disagree with what the government insurance tells us we need, we have no recourse. I'm fine with learning how and caring for myself as far as that's possible, and with hiring a care provider practicing illegally if that's what alternative care comes to (CPM's in the current situation for instance). But if that grows it would become a sort of black market for getting health care under our own terms and the cost may be exorbitant. I want a say in my own care, and I may not get it. Not a pretty picture, but it's what it's left open to should those administering the system chose to do. This bill needs a rewrite. Anyone agree? What do we do to be heard? Letters and calls to legislators, right? Any particular angle they would respond to?


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

I don't know how to respond to this within the UA. Mods can you help me out? There is a lot of falsehoods here but are we allowed to share information on the Bill/reform in general or anything like that?


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## isabellamirac (Sep 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamieCatheryn* 
Has anybody read the real details of the Health Care bill?

I have a suspicion your 'real details' are distortions from the right. Here is a link to a good breakdown of what the plan actually entails:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...56/-1/SPORTS09

In any case, no matter how you end up feeling about the bill, yes, phone calls and letters to your reps would be a prudent way to have your voice heard.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

OP where are you getting this misinformation? Which section of the health care bill supports anything you have claimed?


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## amayhew (Feb 11, 2008)

http://www.opencongress.org/bill

I'm leaving it open on my computer to read when I have a spare moment.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

I was excited to see this thread, until I read the OP.

Please don't spread false scare tactic info. People need to know the truth, the government isn't planning on putting people to sleep or telling them they can't get care.

There will always be limits to what health conditions/issues are covered, but that isn't any different than any health insurance we have right now.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amayhew* 
http://www.opencongress.org/bill

I'm leaving it open on my computer to read when I have a spare moment.

server unable to access.


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## amayhew (Feb 11, 2008)

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

Here it is sorry...I had c&p'd what I was looking at.


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## amayhew (Feb 11, 2008)

wow, they are really busy today!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

OP~ Maybe we can take it from this angle-

What are your concerns with the bill? Why?
What would you like to see with regards to healthcare in this country?
What would you like to see your Reps do for you and the nation?

I think it would be helpful to answer these questions and then go from there with regards to contacting your Reps. Be specific and use fact based evidence to support your wants, needs, and own suggestions.

And of course do share!


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## dachshundqueen (Dec 17, 2004)

I simply wrote my elected representatives on this issue, as I do with all other issues that I would sincerely appreciate my elected representatives taking my concerns into account prior to supporting a bill or enacting legislation.

Liz


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

Propaganda is meant to scare all of us.
I agree with the sensible level headed approach magstphil has suggested, discuss with us the questions she raised, we can help dispel some of the misinformation that is being fed to the public by paid lobbyists.

No one is going to pull the plug on grandma, you will not be denied midwifery care, or have to use a doctor besides the one you already like and who already takes care of your family, you will not have to seek out black market health care for operations or advanced cancer care or routine medical screening.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Most of my concerns are based on my husband's take on it after his skimming the actual bill. After reading much of the social security act and the health care bill, it seems to me out of pocket treatments are protected from interference unless they decide to move in on that in the future. My only concern left is that I have enough money after tax increases to establish an emergency fund in case we need something the gov't appointed folks deem unneeded. They already regulate things to death and I have to hire illegal people and pay out of pocket for any decent care for most stuff, like midwifery, it can't get that much worse except the taxes to pay for all this.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Since this is an Activism thread and not for debating your post





















, I will say that the fastest and most efficacious way to express your concerns is to call your Reps and Senators.

As a PP stated, make sure to find specific references in this colossal bill to your concerns so that you can cite them when you talk to your Congressperson's staffer. (They probably aren't aware of the entire content of the bill, and you'll sound much more credible if you can point out the section and read it ver batim).

Staffers are employed to take diligent notes about your concerns and convey them to your lawmakers. And it really, truly is effective. Staffers for my Rep have been great about calling me back.







: Also, with all of the anger circulating around the country, they will welcome a polite and pleasant voice on the phone, even if you end up disagreeing.









I recommend calling and not writing. Normally when I send emails, I just get an auto-generated form letter on the issue. A phone call will compel them to provide specific answers to your specific concerns. Handwritten letters used to be the way to go, but somebody from my Rep's office told me that it can take over a month for them to arrive, no thanks to the anthrax scare from a few years ago.

Although I don't share your particular concerns, I still have a number of my own issues with this bill, (e.g. individual mandates that blame the victims and pump more money into an already-failing insurance industry). In short.....it's time for me to go practice what I'm preaching.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I have a couple of concerns as well. I haven't read the bill, but I've watched the senators debating this on c-span a lot. Mandated end of life counseling is in the bill. The senator who put it in there was defending it to his colleagues and his explanation left a lot to be desired. He was saying that because everyone isn't as savvy about end of life issues, it's important to have end of life counseling so that everyone knows how to deal with their affairs. It doesn't say that you have to learn to accept death (as has been reported) but still, it's mandated because SOME people aren't as savvy?? Not cool.

Also, they're planning to pay dr's based on performance. This isn't good. It means that dr's will be pushed to push gov't agendas...such as the p4p incentives currently being used in most states to get dr's to push vaccines. I want my dr. to give me his true advice, not his pocketbook advice.

I'm leaning towards being against this particular bill. Not only that, but the constitution says that this is a states issue...and I think it should stay there.

Of course you think "everyone needs healthcare" just like they passed H.R. 2749 because "everyone needs safe food." Well, the details about this are important. H.R. 2749 is passed and will damage many small farmers' businesses and gives the FDA police powers. Off subject I know, but I'm wary of these things since I saw how they passed that bill. I watched the senate debate for several days and watched them pass various bills. Yeah, it would be nice if everyone had healthcare, but there's more to it than that.
Also, did anyone else watch the talks about giving the Federal reserve the power to Regulate? As I understand it, the Reserve is a private company and has no business having regulatory powers. I'm just now paying attention and not liking what I'm seeing. Just watch one day of C-span and you'll see how uninterested in us our representatives really are. I watched one guy stand up and say how a bill that they were about to vote on was filled with 1.5 billion dollars of "pork" going to private companies...the other senators told him to stick to the subject....Really! I don't put any trust in them. I Love Obama, but this bill will be irreversable and it needs time to get it right.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I have a couple of concerns as well. I haven't read the bill, but I've watched the senators debating this on c-span a lot. Mandated end of life counseling is in the bill. The senator who put it in there was defending it to his colleagues and his explanation left a lot to be desired. He was saying that because everyone isn't as savvy about end of life issues, it's important to have end of life counseling so that everyone knows how to deal with their affairs. It doesn't say that you have to learn to accept death (as has been reported) but still, it's mandated because SOME people aren't as savvy?? Not cool.

can you explain why this bothers you? I'm not clear. Do you find it insulting that some people are not clear? What action do you think should be taken instead?


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## nerdymom (Mar 20, 2008)

I think there are two important steps we need to take on this subject. 1) read the darned bill. Yeah, read it. Ourselves. And not accept what we hear on any news program as truth UNTIL we've read it. There is misinformation and manipulation on both sides here. 2) Then, armed with the information we need to take our representatives to task for the parts of the bill we disagree with. How can we be angry with our elected officials if we don't let them know what we're thinking?

I know it's not easy as this is a gigantic bill, but it is possible. I haven't yet done it myself. But it's open in my browser now, so I guess I'd better take my own advice!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I have a couple of concerns as well. *I haven't read the bill, but I've watched the senators debating this on c-span a lot.*

Read the bill. I have also watched Senators debate and not all of them are being truthful about what is in there. Case in point we had one today at a townhall continuing the flat out lie about the elderly being put to pasture per the bill. Out of the mouths of Senators or any other elected official can sadly not always be trusted as factual. If nothing else seek out and read the parts of the bill you are concerned about to see what it really says.

With all the misinformation, spin, and misunderstanding surrounding this whole thing I think it is just better to go to the source and really look at it and also look at the current situation we are in with regards to healthcare.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Read the bill. I have also watched Senators debate and not all of them are being truthful about what is in there. Case in point we had one today at a townhall continuing the flat out lie about the elderly being put to pasture per the bill. Out of the mouths of Senators or any other elected official can sadly not always be trusted as factual. If nothing else seek out and read the parts of the bill you are concerned about to see what it really says.

With all the misinformation, spin, and misunderstanding surrounding this whole thing I think it is just better to go to the source and really look at it and also look at the current situation we are in with regards to healthcare.

Watching a town hall meeting is not the same as seeing the writers of the bill defend it to other senators. The things I mentioned were not denied by the makers of the bill, just explained. I've been watching all the proposed amendments being passed or not passed on the health bill. I can keep up with that, but even reading the actual bill (I've skimmed it a few times), I'm sure I can't understand all of it, it's long and it's ever-changing depending on the amendments that get added to it. Watching the senators defend it to their colleagues is a way to get to the objectionable parts. I'm not talking about town hall meetings and Rush Limbaugh here. I could read the bill twice and not completely understand it and it's implications (and I have a near genius IQ). Many senators are about the same, I'm afraid. Just reading the outline is hard enough. Looking through the text, there are numerous references to other bills and see this amendment, etc. To read it and understand it, you have to go look up each of those amendments and other bills mentioned...as well as keep up with the newest version of the bill and it's amendments....which as we've seen in the passing of H.R. 2749, can change literally overnight. You'd also have to go through and put all of the last minute "and", "or" and semi-colons into their proper place which could be on a completely different bill...confusing.

So, when you say you've read it, I assume that you've read it all, understood it, placed all those ands, ors and semi-colons where they belong and have become familiar with the other bills referenced in it and have kept up with and placed all of the amendments into their appropriate spots. And if that's the case, you should run for office. I've looked up words in the text in order to better understand what people are talking about, but cannot truly say that I read it and understand it.

As for what to do about mandated end-of life counseling, Artgoddess, I think it should be available and not mandated. Don't treat people as incapable idiots. I guess that's the Republicans' problem with democrats and I'm starting to see that. Don't legislate based on the assumption that people are stupid. Don't mandate things "for their own good." As far as I've seen, that hasn't been amended out of the bill. Reading the bill defenders responses and looking at the bill, it does say "pay for" and not mandated, but the senator defending it did not point that out and instead, defended the mandate. So, maybe it's in some other part of the bill..some amendment or something that makes it mandated. I don't know. They're not saying "it's not mandated." Why not? Just debunk it if it's not true.

I lived in France and thought the health-care system there was nice. It's more invasive than I'd like, but it wasn't too bad. But, when I see talk of paying dr's based on performence, it sets off alarm bells. I'm a non-vaxxer and use natural healthcare that I already have to pay cash for....and I'm sure I'm not alone here, considering the board we're on. I don't want anything mandated. Make it available, sure, but don't mandate it.

I'm still feeling very betrayed by the senators over H.R. 2749 and trying to figure out where I really stand politically. I always thought I was a left/democrat and I'm all confused now. I voted straight democrat and the democrats pushed this bill through.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

My point was and is simply this- Senators whether on the floor, at a townhall, on Hardball, or whatever else are not always presenting facts. Might as well go to the source. Of course reading the entire bill is a feat and may not be something we can manage and of course it's hard to completely understand but one can at very least arm themselves with the facts from the bill itself in a particular area of concern/interest.


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## Leta (Dec 6, 2006)

Maggie, I think I love you.

Congratulations on the birth of your twins!


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
My point was and is simply this- Senators whether on the floor, at a townhall, on Hardball, or whatever else are not always presenting facts. Might as well go to the source. Of course reading the entire bill is a feat and may not be something we can manage and of course it's hard to completely understand but one can at very least arm themselves with the facts from the bill itself in a particular area of concern/interest.

True. It's frustrating that it's so hard to understand. I hope the senators do understand it.

You can vote on it at the congress website...I'll go find it. I haven't voted yet because honestly, I don't know how to feel about it and reading it doesn't really help.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text Place your vote here in addition to your phone calls.


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## Epona (Jul 20, 2009)

I used to read things of import...


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Something to keep in mind whenever you look at this sort of law, is that usually 'mandated' means a service must be made available, not that people have to accept a service.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Something to keep in mind whenever you look at this sort of law, is that usually 'mandated' means a service must be made available, not that people have to accept a service.

THANK YOU!!!!!

Mandated means the provider MUST pay for it, IF the person wants it. As in "mandated" hospital stays after giving birth. you don't have to stay, you don't have to give birth in a hospital etc, but if you do and you want to stay then the provider MUST pay for it.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
THANK YOU!!!!!

Mandated means the provider MUST pay for it, IF the person wants it. As in "mandated" hospital stays after giving birth. you don't have to stay, you don't have to give birth in a hospital etc, but if you do and you want to stay then the provider MUST pay for it.

Yup. And IMO this is a very good thing. This could prevent more Terri Schiavos.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Good point about the mandates. That should reassure a lot of people hesitant about the end-of-life counseling. Most recently, I heard that the Senate is planning on nixing that portion, anyway.

To clarify on my particular post, the bill _mandates_ that individuals purchase their own insurance if they can't get it through their employers and fall through the safety net for Medicaid. _That's_ what I'm against. I may be more amenable to it if the public option were offered on a sliding scale basis.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

http://www.factcheck.org/

Non-partisan, researched information up there at the link I just posted.

I'm actually more concerned here that NOTHING is going to be done or that nothing is really going to change. We are here, at a crucial point in american history, where it is so clearly obvious that the system is failing most except the uber wealthy and here I am scared that the special interest groups, lobbyists and insurance companies are going to get their way (aka keep it like it is or only get something lukewarm). Because when you're well off, and have excellent coverage healthcare isn't an issue to you.

I have a cousin that died as a result of his lack of healthcare...and know way too many people that make barely too much money to qualify for medicaid, but can't afford their employer's insurance.

Here we pay very high insurance costs for our family. We're weird, even when we could barely afford it we paid. Sigh. And, that's because we do without pretty much everything but the basics. And, insurance is very high--about $7,500 per year. That's before deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance. Yep--so even if you get sick with insurance you still have to pay a percentage.

Many people at his office can't afford it and go without insurance alltogether. And, I've seen myself, my husband, my sister go without insurance. My sister couldn't afford to pay cobra after she lost her job for the second time. I also have friends who've had serious family tragedies (one of whom was a mom who discovered she had breast cancer when she was pregnant) and the family--not only did they have to deal with losing her...but they had to deal with the enormous amount of medical bills. And, that was WITH having insurance.









I have family and friends in the medical field, I also at one time thought I would become a doctor (still debating here, honestly the system rather disgusts me so I don't know if I will go back to school for it). I actually had all my children at home with midwives (except the accidental UC, though midwife was on her way LOL) and I'm a big believer in evidence based care.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
I'm actually more concerned here that NOTHING is going to be done or that nothing is really going to change. We are here, at a crucial point in american history, where it is so clearly obvious that the system is failing most except the uber wealthy and here I am scared that the special interest groups, lobbyists and insurance companies are going to get their way (aka keep it like it is or only get something lukewarm). Because when you're well off, and have excellent coverage healthcare isn't an issue to you.

Amen.

I am really tied up in this. I usually follow our country's workings but healthcare reform is something I am invested in more so than anything else I can remember. I'm praying for real reform but I am terrified nothing will come of it that really helps those in need. I read this morning they yet again are questioning a public option and are thinking of ditching it altogether.







:

I get that people want to keep their healthcare as is I really do and under this bill that is a possibility but really even if it wasn't it comes down to everyone being able to be insured and insured well vs only a few. I'm sorry but a few people having to change their doctors just doesn't keep me up at night- the amount of people without quality care does.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

What I don't understand is why we have to have this kind of plan (which is already ridiculously expensive in the amount of time, etc. it's taking to prepare and debate) when all they need to do is loosen up Medicare and Medicaid. If the problem is that there are too many needy/poor/unemployed/underemployed people who can't afford coverage, offer Medicaid to them! The requirements for Medicaid are so ridiculous that it's a wonder anyone benefits from it. Wouldn't simply expanding those benefits (and making copays/premiums for it on a sliding scale so it's not cost-prohibitive) be cheaper and less scary to the masses than overhauling an entire system?

And I'd love to read the bill, but even my college education and stellar reading skills from toddlerhood don't allow me to understand it. I can't imagine half of Congress being able to comprehend it all, nevermind the rest of us.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Because health insurance is expensive and often times doesn't cover squat when you think you are covered. Then there are those who make a decent amount but find they can't be insured because of a pre existing condition. So on one front we need to have a less expensive public option to bring down the costs of the others (they need competition as not having it allows them to hike up prices and create impossible policy at our expense as we have to buy into it because we have no other option) and on another side of it we need to allow people coverage without discrimination. If we drive prices down more people will be able to afford healthcare and not have to rely on a gov't system and the same goes for putting a cap on the limiting policies.

Simply put that is. Hopefully it made sense.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Health Care Explained On The Back Of A Napkin


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
Health Care Explained On The Back Of A Napkin

Thanks for posting this, I think it's a pretty decent break down of what is being debated(and not debated).


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## Belle (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
http://www.factcheck.org/

Non-partisan, researched information up there at the link I just posted.

I'm actually more concerned here that NOTHING is going to be done or that nothing is really going to change. We are here, at a crucial point in american history, where it is so clearly obvious that the system is failing most except the uber wealthy and here I am scared that the special interest groups, lobbyists and insurance companies are going to get their way (aka keep it like it is or only get something lukewarm). Because when you're well off, and have excellent coverage healthcare isn't an issue to you.

I have a cousin that died as a result of his lack of healthcare...and know way too many people that make barely too much money to qualify for medicaid, but can't afford their employer's insurance.

Here we pay very high insurance costs for our family. We're weird, even when we could barely afford it we paid. Sigh. And, that's because we do without pretty much everything but the basics. And, insurance is very high--about $7,500 per year. That's before deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance. Yep--so even if you get sick with insurance you still have to pay a percentage.

Many people at his office can't afford it and go without insurance alltogether. And, I've seen myself, my husband, my sister go without insurance. My sister couldn't afford to pay cobra after she lost her job for the second time. I also have friends who've had serious family tragedies (one of whom was a mom who discovered she had breast cancer when she was pregnant) and the family--not only did they have to deal with losing her...but they had to deal with the enormous amount of medical bills. And, that was WITH having insurance.









I have family and friends in the medical field, I also at one time thought I would become a doctor (still debating here, honestly the system rather disgusts me so I don't know if I will go back to school for it). I actually had all my children at home with midwives (except the accidental UC, though midwife was on her way LOL) and I'm a big believer in evidence based care.

Amen to this. We have insurance. But its crap insurance. We are swamped by our medical bills and will be unable to buy a house because we've gone to collections for a miscarriage and two emergency room visits. We have the "wonderful" HSA with the high deductible that some politicians rave about. It doesn't cover squat. Our premiums are just as high as they used to be before we got on this awful plan. We still pay $400 a month and we get zilch from it. If we didn't have insurance then we could have got government help for the miscarriage.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

I sent my letter to my senator telling him that I support a public option. I prefer it to be on a state level, but whatever gets it done, I suppose.

But, I still don't like the idea of paying dr's based on performance. It seems demeaning to dr's and it's already messed up the relationship between dr's and patients when it comes to vaccines (p4p incentives).







:

I'll be watching and writing as much as I can throughout the process. The senate doesn't even have a bill yet from what I'm reading, so we'll see what happens there.


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## Leav97 (Oct 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
But, I still don't like the idea of paying dr's based on performance. It seems demeaning to dr's and it's already messed up the relationship between dr's and patients when it comes to vaccines (p4p incentives).







:

How would you like to see Dr's paid? Right now they are paid by the # of proceedures. That doesn't seem to work either.


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## meganbarr (Jun 20, 2008)

The big thing everyone needs to keep in mind here is that there are actually 5bills being discussed. Even on TV you hear pundits say "the healthcare plan" but as of right now there is not 1 plan. Each plan is a little bit different. A bill with have to pass the House then be sent to the Senate for revisions then passed in the Senate, then passed in the House with revision. We still have a long way to go and a lot of small changes until we have 1 bill that is going to be "healthcare reform."

The bill that has everyone upset about killing grandma is the bill that is currently being marked up in the Senate Finance Commitee. Originally, it did have a mandate for end of life counseling for Medicare recipients. Now however, it has been changed to voluntary end of life counseling for Medicare recipients. There are no death panels or government buraucrats deciding who lives or dies. Just a patient and the doctor of their choice having a conversation about choices. Some of the Senators in the 6 person panel working on the bill have even thought about scrapping the idea altogether since all of the misinformation has caused such controversy. This would be tragic because I think it is important for everyone be well educated about their healthcare choices at every stage of life. This used to be a completely non-partisan issue with pretty much everyone thinking it was a good idea until someone decided to make a political game out of something very important.


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## cagnew (Oct 1, 2007)

I am of a very different opinion then pretty much everyone that has posted so far. I do not support any government run insurance (look at how screwed up Medicaid and Medicare are!), or socialized health care. I think there needs to be reform, and I don't claim to know how to go about that (although TORT reform and dropping state boundaries for insurance co. seem to be good ideas). I just know what I don't want. I have researched health care in other countries and I don't want health care in the US to end up like... Canada, England, Russia, Australia, etc. The stat's for those countries and their systems are not good.

That being said... I thought political dicussions were not allowed on MDC. I hate to think the their censorship applies only when certain views and debates take place. Maybe I need to go re-read the rules....


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