# Have you not slept in years? Come join me for a cry.UPDATED..



## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Because I'm done. Just done. I've given up over and over and we just can't function this way.

I have no answers for you, dear mama, if you are reading this for info, I"m here for commiserating..... I'm just lost.

We are at 20 months old and still going strong....NO SLEEP. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine how we can keep going this way.

My marriage is falling apart.

Our on the spectrum DS keeps asking us to take DD away.

DH only gets 2 - 3 hours of sleep a NIGHT.

I'm now the bitch mother I never wanted to be and on xanax to try and keep my cool (please don't recommend natural stuff, I'm doing it all just to SURVIVE)

I day dream about the wonderful, hazy, lovely days with my DS before our little beast came along. And oh my word I love her so much.

We wanted 4 children, now I won't have sex with DH till he gets a vasectomy.

I feel like all my dreams of a wonderful family life are gone and aren't coming back.

But I'm done.

Please. I beg of you. PLEASE does anyone have a success story of surviving a baby/toddler who never sleeps?

And yes, I've read all the right books. Nothing helps. Nothing.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

I feel your pain, all I can say as cliche as it is around here is that this will pass. The other night was the first time in almost 2 years that dh & I slept in the same bed alone and both slept. Our dd is 2.5 yo and we co-slept from day 1 but until 2 weeks ago she needed someone to sleep with her or else she slept on us. Up until 18 mos I bore the brunt of sleepless nights then dh took over and by the we were in seperate rooms but due to night nursing I was still up 2-4 times a night, though with her not next to me I could fall back to sleep a little easier.

Dd is my 2nd child so this was so unexpected, we recently nightweaned and in some way it seemed like we turned a corner doing that, dd started sleeping through the night and a couple weeks ago asked to sleep in her own bed alone.

Its been a long exhaustive journey so I can indeed relate to how you are feeling.

Shay


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

I thought my dd#1 was a pretty terrible sleeper. In retrospect, it wasn't so bad...she was a (typically) terrible sleeper from about 7 months until about 22 months, at which point we nightweaned her and she began sleeping better, and I began both feeling more human and able to contemplate having another baby.

DD#2 has been, um, a really bad sleeper. Partly due I think to an undiagnosed dairy allergy, as an infant it wasn't unusual for her to wake 10 times at night, usually screaming. Although things are much better now, at nearly 3-1/2 she is still far from sleeping through the night. We've tried a few things (nightweaning, juggling our sleeping arrangements) that have helped not one bit or have made things worse, so at this point I've resigned myself to just hanging in there until she is really ready to sleep on her own for longer stretches.

Things that have helped me cope:
-not trying to fix it...honestly I think the struggle to fix things consumed more energy than just riding it out. And it's not like anything really helped anyway.
-having friends who are also nursing 3 y.o.'s through the night
-sleeping separately from my dh, so at least one of us is getting some sleep. I really resisted this, and still sort of hate it, but I think it is a big factor in easing the overall sleep-deprived stress in our family.
-going to bed earlier--this is still a hard one for me to make happen, but making myself go to bed by 9:00 a couple nights a week really helps keep me sane.

In my experience, there are also windows when the nightwaking and sleep-deprivation seems unbearable, and then things shift a little and I've been able to settle back in. If anyone would have told me that I could be at all sane after 3-1/2 years of chronic sleep deprivation (I did have about a year of decent sleep between my two kids), I never would have believed it.

I'm sorry that you're having such a hard time, and I hope you can make it over this hump soon.


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## ed_tricia (Feb 12, 2007)

I wish I had tips! Just wanted to sympathize. My DD just turned 2 and after three weeks of only waking 2x/night, she's had several rough nights in a row. We get more sleep than you and poor DH though! I'm sorry! Like PP said, this too will pass. My SIL and a few close friends that night nursed and co-slept all had their kids sleeping better, alone, and through the night by around 2 or 2 1/2, so we can have hope! Good luck!


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

A great big







to you, mama.

As of this week, I have "celebrated" exactly two and a half years of not sleeping.

My ds is 10 months older than your dc, and I can honestly say that it has improved...his first year was 8-10 nightwakings per night. We're down to 2-3 lately. Occasionally 1-2, some weeks.

It is slowly improving, and I have hope that *someday* he will sleep through the entire night and wake up happy in the morning. And so will I. But for now...I've got two who are waking up at night.

Someday....


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

It gets easier the older they get, although not perfect.

My DD1 was a *very* frequent night waker until she was 3y old, she barely napped, would wake up for hours in the middle of the night. She is 5y now and I still still living!







She sleeps a lot more now then she did as a toddler, she is usually in bed between 8-8:30 and wakes up at 7, versus 10pm-5:30am. She still wakes up in the middle of the night for hours sometimes, but that is infrequent. DH and I also do not sleep together anymore, I got DD1 until she was close to 4y old, now it's his turn with her.


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

I AM SUCH A BAD MOMMY!

I went out and bought Healthy Sleep Habits....blahblahblah

Two very dear AP mommies I love told me to go get it, that it changed their lives. I should have known better.

I read for a few minutes the chapter for my daughters age and really started to cry.

I could never, and I mean never, lock my door to keep my children out. Not respond to their calls at night for me. Never.

I guess I can live with this a little longer...because the alternative is just cruel.

Thanks for the hugs and for listening to me vent!!!!


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

OMG - IT SAYS "YOU'LL NEED EARPLUGS IN ORDER TO IGNORE THE BANING, CRYING OR YELLING."

I need to just stop reading it. How very, very sad


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## S.Lee (Jan 27, 2007)

Big hug. We are right there with you! Ok I am there with you, dh is oblivious and ds wakes up all smiles and rearing to go.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

OH mama...























Nobody is sleeping in our house either (DS was the world's worst sleeper, then he slept well for about 6 months, now he's back to sleeping like garbage again)... I haven't had a decent night's sleep for 4 years, that's when I got pregnant with DS. I had horrible insomnia while pregnant and DD has NEVER (I mean NEVER) even given me 5 hours. We co-sleep and do everything "right" but it never works.

Some days I just want to die. Or I think my kids must want me dead. I don't know how I'm going to get through this. If DS is still sleeping this badly at 3 years old, what am I going to have to live with down the road? What did I do to deserve this...







:

She is teething right now but I'm walking such a fine thread that all it takes is one bad night or two and I'm a raging a**hole of a human being. I was never this awful before kids, not ever. And I love mine every bit as much as you love yours. But I cannot have more children after all this. No way. They have cured me of wanting more. I can't believe how much this sucks. Your post sounds exactly how I feel today. I'm in a long string of really bad sleep, colds, travel, now more ****** teething. It never ends. Being a mother is awful. I never thought I would hate it this much, but I hate this so, so much.


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

our dd has very recently started sleeping several hours at night (like over a week now!). before that the *only* thing that worked for us was to sleep in shifts. hubby would go to bed supa early (as hard as it was for me to let him go!) and get up super early. also, on the weekends we trade off sleeping in - sometimes one of us will really cath up and sleep until like 4 in the afternoon.








it is really hard. if you want a list of other little tips that have helped us/her i can share. our dd's are about the same age and i also have an older boy on the spectrum, so i mean it when i say i have totally been there!


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

I literally have not had one uninterrupted night's sleep since before DS1 was born. He was 5 in October. He is a terrible sleeper for reasons still unclear to us... and believe me, we have tried _everything_. We even had a sleep study done last summer with a specialist.

He is clearly sleep deprived during the day, every day. He hasn't napped in about two years. He stays awake long past bedtime. he wakes in the night and can't/won't go back to sleep, for hours, or else he'll just stay up until morning. He has bad dreams and night terrors and thrashes around in his sleep all night and wets the bed once every few weeks.

DS2 is 18 months, and I'd consider him an average sleeper, meaning he still wakes several times a night to nurse, unless something like teething or a growth spurt is going on, in which case he wakes way more.

And then, there are the occasional nights like last night: we got the kids to bed by about 8:30. DS2, who is cutting a molar, woke every half hour until about 1, when he finally fell into a deeper sleep. DS1 woke at 2, calling me because he needed to pee and he won't go do it by himself at night. I took him to the bathroom, put him back to bed, could hear him talking to himself in his room as I drifted off...

At 3ish DS1 came into our bed, kept talking and messing around until he woke DS2 up. When they started playing together I knew it was all over... I just got up and took them into the living room. I did get to sleep a little bit with DS2 when he fell asleep around 5am, but I have no idea whether DS1 slept anymore or not. He was certainly awake at 7, and wanting breakfast.

DH is rather unhelpful. I am beyond burned out. I don't know what to do. I'm considering getting an RX for an antidepressant just to get me through my days, as the chronic sleep-deprivation is taking a serious toll on my energy and emotional stability.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh dearest mamas!









I have had 3 nights of 7 hours uninterrupted sleep since October 2002. I know that because those nights were events! The first one happened when ds2 was 4 months old and I woke up in a panic because he hadn't woken me to nurse. Ds1 slept 10 out of every 24 hours, and never more than 60 minutes in a row; I slept 40 minutes for every hour he slept; it was torture. He carried on like this for 6 months, then slept 2 hrs at a time 5x every 24 hrs. until he was 10 months, then he slept in his own room because being pg, I was big and sore, and he kicked like a jackrabbit. He started sleeping through, or at least not requiring me, except rarely, just about 6 months ago (he's 4.5 now). Ds2 wakes every night at least once, but usually 3x/night. Ds3 wakes only a few times per week at night, so now we're only cs with ds4 and he wakes 5-6x/night. Dh has taken over helping the others so that I can sleep some of the night.

I cannot figure out how to better deal with this than pp's have written; share the burden, or you'll end up like me. I am suffering with adrenal exhaustion causing heart, liver, kidney, circulatory system and other health problems because my dh didn't share the load with me, citing that he had to work in the morning (yeah, and I have to convince myself not to throw myself off the balcony in the morning, but no bother...







). Now he's had to take parental leave because I have sleep paralysis, dying feet, no energy, hypoglycemia, degenerated eyesight and hearing, nearly no reflex or fight or flight response and can pass out suddenly and the list goes on (for about 4 pages). It is no longer safe for me to be left alone with dc in case I die or become incapacitated, which can happen suddenly and without warning. This is all to do with a total exhaustion of my body. I have had very extreme circumstances, granted, but please find a way to relieve yourself- you must. I was warned by a dr 3 yrs ago, and here I am, and it sucks- even more than before; I wouldn't have known that was even possible, but now I'm living it







. Making sure I have enough rest is literally a life and death issue now.

Mamas, MAKE someone hear you and DEMAND a response, PLEASE!!!







Now I look at my babies and hope that I can recover faster than I degenerate into poorer condition. Somedays it seems hopeless- like when I have trouble even walking- other days I hope that our move to a warmer climate and gaining access to whole organic foods will give me some vitality. I hope the stress of the move won't literally kill me, but we have to go where I have a hope of recovering (isolated in the extreme north of ontario isn't going to help).

I used to play volleyball and badminton competitively. I used to paint, sculpt and draw. I used to have a shower every day, but now I can't. I can't run or jump, or wrestle with my children. I wish I had done something more drastic to convince dh that my will was only a good facade for how sick I was becoming. It's expected that if all goes well, it will take about 3 years for me to recover. Booo.

Learn from my mistake if you can...


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
Mamas, MAKE someone hear you and DEMAND a response, PLEASE!!!







Now I look at my babies and hope that I can recover faster than I degenerate into poorer condition. Somedays it seems hopeless- like when I have trouble even walking- other days I hope that our move to a warmer climate and gaining access to whole organic foods will give me some vitality. I hope the stress of the move won't literally kill me, but we have to go where I have a hope of recovering (isolated in the extreme north of ontario isn't going to help).

I used to play volleyball and badminton competitively. I used to paint, sculpt and draw. I used to have a shower every day, but now I can't. I can't run or jump, or wrestle with my children. I wish I had done something more drastic to convince dh that my will was only a good facade for how sick I was becoming. It's expected that if all goes well, it will take about 3 years for me to recover. Booo.

Learn from my mistake if you can...









:









When DS2 was born, DH was supposed to take over with DS1 at night. He only followed through on that for about six weeks.

When he does get up in the night with DS1 anymore, he seems to resent it so ferociously. He is nasty and snarly and antagonistic with DS1 and usually works him into hysterics. And then I'm left with a screaming five-year-old, a woken-up and crying toddler, and a surly 31-year-old who goes to sleep on the couch.

DS2 only wants to nurse when he wakes.

DH will occasionally get up with the kids in the morning, but 1) he apparently cannot remember to do things like change DS2's diaper first thing, or let the dogs out, or feed the kids breakfast *and* give them something to drink with it, and 2) he apparently cannot engage them sufficiently to keep them from coming to find me at least every half hour, and I can either shut the door and listen to them cry in the hall, or just let them wake me...

I'm sorry. Now that I've started complaining about it, I can't seem to stop. Mamas, I hope none of you feel so alone and resentful as I do in this.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sylith* 
We even had a sleep study done last summer with a specialist.

Just lurking in this thread. My son is not that bad a sleeper (I mean he wakes a lot but he just nurses back down). But I'm curious about the sleep study and what it revealed. I read something recently about RLS being a major cause of infant sleep disturbance and was wondering if things like that have made their way into the sleep lab. I am hoping they have instead of there being a behavioral focus.


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
Just lurking in this thread. My son is not that bad a sleeper (I mean he wakes a lot but he just nurses back down). But I'm curious about the sleep study and what it revealed. I read something recently about RLS being a major cause of infant sleep disturbance and was wondering if things like that have made their way into the sleep lab. I am hoping they have instead of there being a behavioral focus.

Yes, the study was for things like RLS and other possible physiological causes. They hooked him up with a bunch of electrodes, etc.

results did not show anything our specialist considered unusual or significant. He said DS does move around a lot in his sleep "for some reason," but it was not RLS. The specialist concluded it is a behavioral issue and we need to work on it from that angle. Of course, he had also told me prior to the sleep study that we were doing "everything right." I'm trying to find a therapist to work with us, but it's tough to find anybody good, and there isn't much hope of getting it covered by insurance. We will be hard pressed to afford to pay out of pocket.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I am new to sleep deprivation. My son was a great sleeper. My 4 month old, however, is driving me crazy. I recognize that I have nothing on you guys. I hope this doesn't sound cruel but it makes me feel better to know that it could be so much worse.

Once every one or two weeks, my husband takes over at night and let's me sleep 6 hours straight. If I wasn't nursing right now, I would sleep longer. I don't understand the husbands you guys have. Why can't they do this for you? It makes me very angry at them. I have an interesting idea. Hire a "babysitter" to stay overnight at your house once per week. You would have to let your kid(s) get used to the person first, of course.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Mostly wanted to come with super hugs. DS has never been a great sleeper and was quite terrible between birth and about 2yrs.

Wanted to list a few things that have helped somewhat:

1. Nightweaning made a really big difference. We did this around 16mo. He started sleeping MUCH longer stretches.
2. Being REALLY rigorous about naps. NCSS helped us most in thinking about naps and starting them before any tired signs.
3. Allergy testing. He's allergic to tons of stuff, so eliminating them helped what had been bad belly pain and reflux/silent reflux.
4. Occupational therapy -- he also has some sensory processing issues (SPD), and those get in the way of him regulating his body well, which takes a toll on being able to relax into sleep. Doing OT has definitely helped with this self-regulation.
5. Early bedtime. EArlier than might seem necessary. Earlier to sleep=better sleep for us.

Best of luck!!!!!
megin


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 
I AM SUCH A BAD MOMMY!

I went out and bought Healthy Sleep Habits....blahblahblah

Two very dear AP mommies I love told me to go get it, that it changed their lives. I should have known better.

I read for a few minutes the chapter for my daughters age and really started to cry.

I could never, and I mean never, lock my door to keep my children out. Not respond to their calls at night for me. Never.

I guess I can live with this a little longer...because the alternative is just cruel.

Thanks for the hugs and for listening to me vent!!!!









s !!

We did the same thing. We just "survived" with our non-sleeper until he outgrew his wakefulness, because the alternatives were far worse, IMO.

My LO didn't respond to any of the gentle sleep training, either, and that just frustrated me. Eventually we just accepted that this was him, and when he was ready, his sleep would improve. For us, that was around 14 mos, although I've heard 2 - 3 years old is a big time for maturity in sleep patterns.


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## fawny (Jul 25, 2007)

I just wanted to send you tons of


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## TonyaW (Dec 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *megincl* 
Mostly wanted to come with super hugs. DS has never been a great sleeper and was quite terrible between birth and about 2yrs.

Wanted to list a few things that have helped somewhat:

1. Nightweaning made a really big difference. We did this around 16mo. He started sleeping MUCH longer stretches.
2. Being REALLY rigorous about naps. NCSS helped us most in thinking about naps and starting them before any tired signs.
3. Allergy testing. He's allergic to tons of stuff, so eliminating them helped what had been bad belly pain and reflux/silent reflux.
4. Occupational therapy -- he also has some sensory processing issues (SPD), and those get in the way of him regulating his body well, which takes a toll on being able to relax into sleep. Doing OT has definitely helped with this self-regulation.
5. Early bedtime. EArlier than might seem necessary. Earlier to sleep=better sleep for us.

Best of luck!!!!!
megin

Megin, I wanted to ask how you night weaned? What method did you use and did it involve crying? I need ideas!


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## YouKnowMe (Feb 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 
I AM SUCH A BAD MOMMY!

I went out and bought Healthy Sleep Habits....blahblahblah

Two very dear AP mommies I love told me to go get it, that it changed their lives. I should have known better.

I read for a few minutes the chapter for my daughters age and really started to cry.

I could never, and I mean never, lock my door to keep my children out. Not respond to their calls at night for me. Never.

I guess I can live with this a little longer...because the alternative is just cruel.

Thanks for the hugs and for listening to me vent!!!!

I had that exact experience!!! It made me just cry! I still cry when I think about it! I read half a page and wanted to burn the book. Some really respectable mothers suggested it to me too!

I'm so sorry Mama! I'm right along there with you, so I have lots of for you no advice, but many hugs!


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## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 
I AM SUCH A BAD MOMMY!

I went out and bought Healthy Sleep Habits....blahblahblah

Two very dear AP mommies I love told me to go get it, that it changed their lives. I should have known better.

I read for a few minutes the chapter for my daughters age and really started to cry.

I could never, and I mean never, lock my door to keep my children out. Not respond to their calls at night for me. Never.

I guess I can live with this a little longer...because the alternative is just cruel.

Thanks for the hugs and for listening to me vent!!!!

I can't offer much else to you, but I need to dispute your first sentence. Buying and/or reading the book does NOT make you a bad Mommy! I'd say that choosing to ignore the (bad) advice in the book even though it promises a "quick fix" (at what cost?) makes you a really wonderful Mommy.

I'm in the sleep-deprived camp, but I can't really say that either of my girls are notably horrible sleepers. Problem right now is they are both waking at night, both at different times, so even if they both only wake once or twice, I am getting up 2-4 times and end up with two 2-year-olds in a queen-sized bed with my husband and myself. They take short naps and lately have started fighting bedtime, which used to be their only saving grace as far as sleep went - they went to bed without a care in the world and without a single tear or protest. Not so much anymore.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

We have two boys - the older one is almost five, and the younger one is almost 2.5. And I feel that I have been sleep-deprived for about five years. I know it has affected my mental state, my health, our marriage, and had a negative effect on the other aspects of my parenting. And now I've come to the point of thinking I have sacrificed too much in the other aspects of our lives in order to live up to some external idea of what is "kind" regarding sleep and not feel guilty about doing something "unkind" to the kids at night. For us I know it is time for some balance, so I can be the mommy I want to be during the day, and DH and I can be in better moods with each other and our children and feel better about how our family functions as a whole.

DS1 weaned just past four but we night-weaned him at age two, a couple months before his brother was born, because I HAD TO SLEEP. Basically DH took over him at night. I had tried to night-wean him myself but we would both literally be up all night, not getting even 15 minutes of sleep, for several nights in a row, until I gave up and went back to night nursing from sheer exhaustion. So I gave it over to DH. Yes, there was crying. He was mad and he screamed and cried for me for a long time the first couple nights, and then went to sleep with DH and slept soundly the rest of the night. After that, he accepted not getting me at night anymore and went to sleep easily with DH. He still sleeps with DH now. He's become a pretty good sleeper - he just doesn't like to be alone. He's a snuggler and I hope he stays that way !

With DS2, he has become an all-night-no-breaks nurser and I can't sleep through it. I've decided at this point there is more benefit to him and our whole family for me to get more sleep than there is for him to nurse at night. I can't give him over to DH at night because DS1 wouldn't sleep well then. So I'm taking him to sleep in our fold-out bed in our finished basement, where the noise from his upset won't wake up DH or DS1. Last night was night 3. We snuggle and nurse at bedtime and I tell him he may have ma-mas again in the morning, and water and a binky and snuggles all night, but the ma-mas go to sleep. Yes there is crying. But he's not alone, and he's old enough to understand the limit I'm setting. He gets it, he just doesn't like it. His angry spells at night are getting shorter in duration. If he wants me to touch him I rub his back. He snuggles up with me and falls back to sleep.

I don't like him being upset but I know this is what we need to do. I need to get enough sleep so I'm not the yelling bitch-mom I never wanted to be. So I have the patience to allow our boys to explore the world in creative, messy, time-consuming ways and be cheerful about it and enjoy it with them. So I have the energy and creative spark to make the mundane fun. So I have the initiative and inspiration to "strew their path" with interesting things. So we can all handle doing many things each week that make life interesting and fun and a learning experience for them. Without the sleep, our days are filled with TV and fighting and grumpiness and barely surviving. With sleep, they are a rainbow of color and fun and imagination and creativity and silliness and joy and love. So I know the sleep is worth the nightime "ideals" I am giving up for it. I really don't believe a 2.5 yo needs to be nursing all night. I know that I do need to be sleeping at night, and my whole family needs for me to be able to function on that higher plane I can only reach by sleeping. He is not enjoying the process of changing the habit. I'm supporting him through the change, and doing my best to keep in mind the benefits for all of us after we get through this.


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm sorry to sound bitter, but what if you sacrifice your ideals and your kid still sleeps like crap?


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Then we will need to look for another solution. But I don't think it's going to be the case. Because it's not him sleeping like crap. He sleeps great while attached to my breast all night. It's me who can't sleep though it. It's me who needs more sleep, so I can take care of everyone else. I can't sleep with someone sucking on me all night (and kicking and pinching while nursing through his sleep). When he was an infant and much smaller and gentler, I could sleep through it, but he's grown and now I can't. So now he has to learn to sleep without sucking on me all night. I have the experience behind me that with DS1, once he got past his initial resistance to not being able to nurse all night long, he slept fine without it. And our nursing daytime relationship was not disturbed by our nighttime changes. So I believe we will get to the other side of this and we will be fine.

As for sacrificing ideals, I'm not completely giving them up. But I've realized I can't have them all at the same time, not with this child, at this age. I can't be the mom they need me to be during the daytime with him keeping me up all night with expectations to nurse. If I could do both, I would, but I can't. It is one or the other at this point and giving up my ability to function during the day is hurting all of us. So I'm choosing what I believe is most beneficial for everyone.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sylith* 
I'm sorry to sound bitter, but what if you sacrifice your ideals and your kid still sleeps like crap?


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

I'm here to tell you that I'm going to eat some crow...(DD is 20 mos. for your reference) NO, I'M NOT A BAD MOMMY! or maybe I am, read on!









I read the entire book. And while his tone leaves much to be desired, he is not the complete *ss I thought he was.

After 2 very simple changes our lives have done a 180* in 2 days. Two days. And no CIO.

The book brought to my attention 2 things that I just didn't connect on my own. He also gave some very good ideas on soothing that involve NO CIO.

#1 being that my DH has brought about a HABIT in our DD of being up all night or getting up early for the day. I mean 2 am, 3am, or 1 - 6am...for the DAY. My DH, God bless him, and I do mean that, in trying to be gentle, has literally, for months, gotten her up to play with her, read her books, let her watch Sesame STreet, drive her around for an hour... you name it he does it. Will even get her on the jungle gym.... (she had been horribly sick and we had done anything to keep her from crying) Dh is good time charlie and she doesn't see him very much so DD has worked this like no tomorrow. And he gives in.

Solution #1: She woke up at 1am and fussed, I immediatly got up and got her out. She said "Sank you Mama! PLay! Play!". Ummm, NO. I tried again. I loved on her, gave her a baba, laid down next to her crib and waited. Flame me if you will, but shortly after she went to sleep. She fussed, but there were no hysterics. Please, let's not play with semantics here - each mama knows her own babe. You know when your babe is fussing and when your babe is terrified. My babe was _fussing._ And nothing wrong with her except she wanted to go to PaRtY and our entire family hasn't slept in 20 months.

She slept the longest she has ever slept in her life. LIFE.

#2 - going to bed too late. I didn't believe that whole sleep begets sleep crap. Not in a million years. DD would stay up till 9, 10 - 11.... hoping she would sleep till 4 or 5.

Solution #2: We put her to bed at 7pm with no fussing or crying. I was very loving, gave her a baba, tucked her in and put her to bed...turned off her music and her night light. I had no idea that those things were contributing to her not sleeping well but we would leave music on all night. The only thing we left on was the fan for white noise.

Again, she got up once, I loved on her, changed her, gave her a baba, then laid her down and that was it. She cooed, cuddled up with her baby doll and went right back to sleep. Again, no nightlight, no music, just white noise. No crying.

Today she took a 3 hour nap. She did that during the first 2 weeks of her life and then never since. Same thing, I loved on her, changed her, gave her a baba, she curled up with her baby doll and cooed. Nite-Nite Mama!

This book has changed our lives and NO MY BABY DID NOT CIO. And if you think so then walk a mile in my *^$^T&*# shoes and tell me you wouldn't try something, ANYTHING to be normal again. _(sorry for the defensive attitude...I'm just tired but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel)_

So, I'M HERE TO EAT CROW...THIS BOOK IS WORKING FOR US! I agree with the PP - use what will of this book and leave his crappy attitude and all. Use what you can.

there are no emoticons to put in this post to express the relief our entire family is anticipating with bated breath......


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34* 
Then we will need to look for another solution. But I don't think it's going to be the case. Because it's not him sleeping like crap. He sleeps great while attached to my breast all night. It's me who can't sleep though it. It's me who needs more sleep, so I can take care of everyone else. I can't sleep with someone sucking on me all night (and kicking and pinching while nursing through his sleep). When he was an infant and much smaller and gentler, I could sleep through it, but he's grown and now I can't. So now he has to learn to sleep without sucking on me all night. I have the experience behind me that with DS1, once he got past his initial resistance to not being able to nurse all night long, he slept fine without it. And our nursing daytime relationship was not disturbed by our nighttime changes. So I believe we will get to the other side of this and we will be fine.

As for sacrificing ideals, I'm not completely giving them up. But I've realized I can't have them all at the same time, not with this child, at this age. I can't be the mom they need me to be during the daytime with him keeping me up all night with expectations to nurse. If I could do both, I would, but I can't. It is one or the other at this point and giving up my ability to function during the day is hurting all of us. So I'm choosing what I believe is most beneficial for everyone.

Hugs mama.









Big, huge hugs to you.









You do the best you can with what you have. Please let us know how you are.

And thanks to all you other mama's for letting me know I'm not alone. It gave me courage to think outside the box I had put myself in.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 
Hugs mama.









Big, huge hugs to you.









You do the best you can with what you have. Please let us know how you are.

And thanks to all you other mama's for letting me know I'm not alone. It gave me courage to think outside the box I had put myself in.









Yep. I've been psycho screaming crying scaring the crap out of both kids enough to know that if you figure out a gentle way to get more sleep, DO IT.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I am very happy for you that you are feeling some relief and some hope of enjoying real sleep soon !









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Joseph* 

there are no emoticons to put in this post to express the relief our entire family is anticipating with bated breath......


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

Sorry, mama. I'm glad you've found ways to take good care of your family. Really, I'm glad for you, and I don't think you're doing something "wrong." I was talking about myself.

Night weaning, moving him into his own room, being a total hardass about bedtime, leaving him alone in his room to scream... we've gone through all that at one time or another. My 5 year old still doesn't get good sleep, and neither do I. So, I'm exhausted and cranky, and not the kind of mother I want to be during the day, and I've given up on the ideals I had about nighttime parenting too.

And I have a five-year-old who goes around every day with dark circles under his eyes, and a giant load of angst, and generally resembles the world's smallest emo kid. and I feel like I have failed him. If I knew for a certainty that hardcore Ferber CIO as an infant would have led to good sleep for him in the present, and I could somehow go back in time and do that, I would, in a heartbeat. But I have no real reason to think that would make a difference, even if I could change the past.








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:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34* 
Then we will need to look for another solution. But I don't think it's going to be the case. Because it's not him sleeping like crap. He sleeps great while attached to my breast all night. It's me who can't sleep though it. It's me who needs more sleep, so I can take care of everyone else. I can't sleep with someone sucking on me all night (and kicking and pinching while nursing through his sleep). When he was an infant and much smaller and gentler, I could sleep through it, but he's grown and now I can't. So now he has to learn to sleep without sucking on me all night. I have the experience behind me that with DS1, once he got past his initial resistance to not being able to nurse all night long, he slept fine without it. And our nursing daytime relationship was not disturbed by our nighttime changes. So I believe we will get to the other side of this and we will be fine.

As for sacrificing ideals, I'm not completely giving them up. But I've realized I can't have them all at the same time, not with this child, at this age. I can't be the mom they need me to be during the daytime with him keeping me up all night with expectations to nurse. If I could do both, I would, but I can't. It is one or the other at this point and giving up my ability to function during the day is hurting all of us. So I'm choosing what I believe is most beneficial for everyone.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Hugs, mama!

I haven't slept through the night in 6 years. Let's see . . . I was pregnant with dd around this time and you know how sleep goes down the toilet then . . . she was a terrible sleeper who didn't sleep through the night til she turned three, when I was already pregnant with her brother. He will be two next week and is an awful sleeper -- worse than her!! He has me up several nights a week for multiple hours at a time, or he wakes a few times during the night and is up for the day at 5.

I have never needed much sleep, so I am still doing ok, but it would feel so good to sleep for more than a couple hours at at time!! I figure I've got a year or so left.


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## abi&ben'smom (Oct 28, 2007)

I went about 6 years without sleeping through the night. It was terrible. Both my kids were bad sleepers. Neither one would sleep through the night until they slept in their own beds. My ds was almost 3, and my dd was almost 4. My ds adjusted really well, but dd had a really hard time. I must admit that we threatened her with locking our door if she wouldn't stay in her room. (This was after trying everything else humanly possible--she is very, very stubborn.) It was a last resort, and it actually worked. I just couldn't take the lack of sleep anymore. Basically, we showed her that our door would stay open as long as she stayed in her room. She could get up and talk/look at us if she stayed in there. After a couple of days, she actually slept all night!!! It felt like a miracle. It was such a relief, I can't even tell you. I swear I thought I was doomed to never sleep for more that 2 hours at a time forever. I wish we would of done it sooner.


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## bottomsup (Jul 6, 2007)

Sylith,

If you have already looked into food allergies or medical causes, etc., I would try a couple of books (if you have not done these already).

The one I found most helpful for children your son's age is Kurchinka's Sleepless in America. It is not a sleep training book, but I can say with confidence it has helped so many of my friends with tired, cranky kids (the subtitle is Is Your Child Misbehaving or Missing Sleep).

Finally, Ferber's suggestions for older children are mostly fabulous. I was surprised when I read through his first edition how compassionate he was to the child, and irritated with the parents for having unrealistic expectations. I think some of his suggestions and explanations may also be very helpful.

I am so sorry things are so rough for you. I can't even imagine five years of sleeplessness..


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## adamsfam07 (Sep 9, 2006)

Another sleep deprived momma here! My little guy has never been a very good sleeper and I'm just so freaking tired!







: He'd now @19mo and tosses and turns, and fusses, some nights he'll wake up in the middle of the night and stay awake for hours. I'm 27wks pregnant and had to wean him about a month ago because I lost my milk supply, the first week was heaven, he slept for 5-6 hrs before waking up. But the last 2 weeks has been horrible. I don't know what to do and I'm so worried that I'm going to end up being up all night with both him and our newborn in May. How am I going to function, how am I going to make it? My dh doesn't get much sleep either, he tries to sleep on the couch or in the other room on the floor in hopes that the extra room in our bed will help ds sleep but that's not working either. People keep saying it will pass and to just wait it out....but I think I may loose my mind before that.


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