# my daughter scowls at strangers



## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

My problem is this. My DD #2 just turned 4yo. She is extremely small for her age (about 30lbs) and has these crazy ringlets all over her head. Very cute kid.

Unfortunately, she also HATES being the center of attention. Everywhere we go, and I do mean every single place I take her, someone wants to comment on her hair, or talk to her, or touch her. Every single time this happens she either says "go away!" or growls or spits







at them. The last time this happened she told a woman she wanted to cut her head off. Obviously, she feels very strongly that she does not want to be looked at or touched by strangers.

I just don't know what to say to her or to them.

I've really tried to come up with some kind of canned response like "my daughter doesn't enjoy attention" or whatever. The problem is I get so flustered every time, some people are really offended, that I get really apologetic and say things like "I'm so sorry, no, no, that's not polite" etc.

My daughter needs me to help her learn to navigate social situations and I'm failing her miserably. I really don't care what the people around us think, but I have a hard time mediating the situation.

I could really use suggestions if anyone has them.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

I like your dd.

You don't have to make people feel better, esp strangers.

I just want to give you/remind you of freedom to trust your mothering instincts.

MAybe you could talk with her, with some distance from such interactions, about what people like about her hair so much and how that makes her feel. You'll know where to creatively go from there.









But just so you know, I smiled when I saw the title.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Abi does the same thing, if it makes you feel any better. She's 4 years 3 mos. and 33.5 pounds. Looks a lot like her East Indian daddy so she does get a lot of stares and "wow she's beautiful" comments. She will put her head down and scowl at them.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

My ds doesn't like attention either. Fortunately, he doesn't have your dd's ringlets! He tells me all the time that he doesn't want anybody to look at him when we are in stores. Frequently, he says this when he is creating a spectical of some kind (not misbehaving, just acting 3 1/2). He sometimes hides his head in my shirt. Sometimes, when he says this, I'll somewhat loudly repeat what he said ("Oh, you don't want anybody to talk to you or look at you?") and hope people get the hint. I hate it when people try to make him say hi to them.

If I were you, I would go with your idea of just saying something along the lines of "Sorry, my daughter doesn't enjoy attention from people she doesn't know very well." Just practice saying it so it rolls off your tongue even when flustered. The people will just get the impression she is shy if interactions are nipped before the growling stage. Your dd is really just defending her personal space which is bigger than other kids. If you help her with defending her space, she may be less likely to act the way she is. (My ds has similar ideas of punishment, cutting people up in many pieces). Maybe she would like to wear ugly hats for a while







.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

My kid hates that kind of attention and used to get a lot of it. Now *I* scowl at people when they start the intrusive looking that precedes the intrusive comments. If someone touched my child I said, "Please do not touch my child." My kids is going on about her day and honestly doesn't owe those strangers anything. Usually they are interrupting her 1000th question of the day....

ETA: My kid is gorgeous and huge for her age. She always looks unkempt and like she's rolled in hay. She stands out in a crowd. She's 4.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Well, I feel much better just knowing I don't have the only 4yo that doesn't like to smile at just anyone. I get so mad at myself when we get home and I think about it. It's as if people think her job is to be cute and entertain anyone that comes along.

I have tried to get her to wear a hat :LOL with no success. I told her that if she doesn't want to talk she can always cover her eyes and sometimes that works.

I like the idea of addressing my response to her, not to the other person. Something like "Oh, you don't want to be looked at right now" would be good. I do need to practice it so I don't get flustered.

THank you very much for your replies.


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## darkstar (Sep 8, 2003)

My dd does the same. She growls at people and says"Dont look at me". I feel no need to apologize, as she is 3 and grown ups should no better than to touch a strangers child. You are not alone.








darkstar


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Sorry if this is redundant but your post just caught my eye and I had to respond - because my daughter used to do the same thing. And I had totally forgotten about it until my mother visited recently and we were reminiscing about when my daughter was a toddler. She also hated the attention she often got because she wore a "Dorothy" (Wizard of Oz) dress *all the time*. She also had red shoes. And I must say she's pretty cute







She would yell at people - I remember once this very kind man said "Hi Cutie!" and she yelled at him "I'M NOT CUTIE - I'M ELLIE!!" and also spit at him. I was mortified. It's okay when people understand but when they don't it makes it that much harder, I know.

At one point I was convinced she had a sensory integration disorder. She went nutso when anyone even tried to talk to her. Going to the grocery was dicey, I tell you.

But she doesn't do that anymore. She doesn't seem to need the space as much.

I don't know if I did anything that actually helped. But here's what I remember doing (remember my memory stinks!







):

1. I insisted that she speak politely. I expected her to say, politely please!, "I don't feel like talking right now". Most people were supportive of this. But of course the (in retrospect mind you!) hilarious situation often arose when people wouldn't understand that that meant they should instantly cease all communication and cease to look in her direction or even seem to look in her direction - people would, in a well meaning way, want to reassure her that it was okay not to talk, etc., which would just exacerbate the problem.

2. I tried to point out to her how good it made other people feel when she was friendly. Like when she would smile at some old lady instead of scowling I'd say "Boy I bet that made her day - there's nothing like a child's smile to brighten up someone's day!".

3. When she had a long-ish solid positive interaction with someone I'd walk her through it again later in the day. Going over what everyone said and how they felt and what the other person might have thought.

But my mom and I both agree my dd was just really searching for control. Recent moves, sibling on the way, and just plain growing up a little made her clamp down a bit for awhile. And her interactions with other people was where she chose to exert her need for control. Well, other areas too







Also, I know I go through stages myself when I just need a break from people and don't feel like talking! But I don't have to worry about people accosting me because of my ringlets so it's a lot easier for me to get space when I feel like that then it is for your daughter, kwim? It must get pretty darn annoying.

Just try to keep your sense of humor and know she's totally normal! You are doing a great job!

Eve


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Whoa, I just would never ever want to imply to my daughter that it was her job to make people (random strangers!) "feel good' by being polite to them.

OP, I'm so glad you're understanding about your daughter's situation! Girls have it hard because there is a subtle but very pervasive social code that they're supposed to accept attention graciously, accept being "admired" and having their personal space violated.

A pedestal is still a narrow place to stand, and it's still an awfully exposed position. KWIM?

I really admire your daughter's spunk in standing up for her boundaries (granted, she isn't doing so in the most, mm, tactful or socially graceful way, but what 4-yo is a master of social grace, right?).

ITA with hotmamacita and I smiled when I saw the thread title too!


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## Dodo (Apr 10, 2002)

Hi, I didn't read all of the replies, so I hope that I'm not repeating.

My dd does this too. We tell her before we go out that she can say hi or nothing, that it is her choice, and then I remind her again when anyone starts talking to us. Usually, she says, "Nothing." Other possibilities: I give her something to drink, I give her gum to chew, I put her in a stroller with the shade pulled, so that she's in a private space and doesn't have to interact.

These strategies have really helped us. Hope that you find something that works for you.


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## our veggie baby (Jan 31, 2005)

I used to be a scowling "don't look at me" child, so that's the perspective I come from!

I think it is great that you don't make your daughter engage in converstations etc that she isn't comfortable with....if people have a problem with that, well, they can @#$#@ off in my humble opinion.

Of course, I don't want to be hurtful towards people, but people need to respect your daughter's wishes...people have this idea that children are just everyone's property and there for the entertainment of them and should dance when someone says dance etc, and that is crap. It impresses me that your daughter has such a strong will and I think you should nurture that (not saying you aren't!!)

I read an article about "manners" which I loved...where the author says she simply says to people on her child's behalf..."I'm sorry, he doesn't seem to want to talk to you right now, but I would be happy to talk to you if you like"...which I thought was polite but just snooty enough to get a point across LOL...

People want to admire cute kids, or any kids for that matter....they mean no harm...but on the other hand, your daughter is not some show pony and it is perfectly acceptable for you to repsect that and NOT feel rude at all politely telling someone she doesn't care for attention/to talk right now/staring makes her uncomfortable etc...

This made me ROLL LAUGHING!!!

Quote:

The last time this happened she told a woman she wanted to cut her head off. Obviously, she feels very strongly that she does not want to be looked at or touched by strangers.
I don't know if you meant it to be funny, but the wording of "obviously, she feels strongly" made me DIE LAUGHING...it read so dry and hilarious....lol....she's a cool little girl!!


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Can you give her some words that you feel good about her using? role play adn talk about what she can say when people talk to her and she doesn't want to. There are positive ways for her to assert herself, and she is learning a great tool for life that way. The book "raising strong daughters" has some great tips on giving them the vocabulary to assert themselves tactfully.

My oldest (almost 4) is so shy, she will sometimes get near or to tears from the attention of strangers. She is to shy to say "please don't talk to me" She just melts in front of me. I'm scared to label her by speaking for her, but people just don't get the hint to leave her alone. It makes me so irrate that people don't know how to read her and just leave her alone. What we've come to is when someone begins to speak to her and asks her a question I just speak to her and say "It looks liek you don't want to talk right now, would you like me to talk for you?" and she manages a nod- and I take over the conversation. The people seem to get the idea that I'm not going to push her to talk and they can ask me whatever they want. Taht way I'm not apologizing "Sorry, she's shy" while labelling her and I'm not leaving her to hang by herself either. But the most help was having another child, the baby always gets the most attention you know? lol.


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## mamalita (Jun 5, 2003)

Hi! We're in the same boat. DS (32 mos) sometimes does a kind-of scream at people when he gets unwanted attention, etc. I taught him to say "No thank you" to people if he wanted to; and like the other posters, I totally admired/respected that he seemed to be in touch with his own boundries.

The thing that really gets me is those people who kind of take a step back in an overly-dramatic shocked way (as if to say "that's rude"). I feel like these are the same type of people who (sadly) think that a child should always be "respectful" to adults







.

p.s. I agree that your daughter sounds very cool!


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

Wow, it's so refreshing to discuss this with people that find it amusing! I thought it was kind of funny myself, but DH's family acts like there's something wrong with DD. I really don't know where she gets the wanting to cut someone's head off, but when she said that it occurred to me that she has very strong feelings and she's trying to let me know.

Quote:

The thing that really gets me is those people who kind of take a step back in an overly-dramatic shocked way (as if to say "that's rude").
This is what always gets me. I guess the little girl in me that feels like she has to be polite takes over and I end up trying to reassure the lady in the grocery store instead of reassuring Sophie that she's ok.

Role playing would probably be good for both of us since these situations always catch me off guard. I really want her to feel like she can assert herself, and giving her some more acceptable words to use is the key I think.

I could use some practice asserting myself as well, it seems.


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Whoa, I just would never ever want to imply to my daughter that it was her job to make people (random strangers!) "feel good' by being polite to them.









Somehow I knew someone would say that!

I think it's okay to expect politeness. Not for the sake of making someone else "feel better" - but because it's just not okay to spit on someone because they are trying to be nice to you. To me politeness means being firm instead of yelling. It means using words instead of screams. It gets results way better than yelling or screaming too. I guess I look at it like a "treat others how you'd like to be treated" kind of thing. And I think it's a good thing that my daughter can put herself in other people's shoes and see how the way she acts makes other people feel. It's called empathy!

And I plan to raise my son the same way







.

I like my approach because I see so many people treating others like total crap, being rude and insensitive - that sort of thing. Or just not aware or caring at all. And hey, just as much as it's annoying when someone invades our space, mental or physical, it can also make us feel good when we make someone else feel good - by being friendly or helping someone out. So that's why I point out to my daughter how she might be making someone else feel. It doesn't mean one has to be a door mat - I don't *make* her "talk nice" and be chatty or smile or anything. Just polite. "I don't feel like talking right now".

And - maybe this puts our situation in perspective a little too - I think for my dd the "scowling" became kind of a habit. I wanted to help her move away from yelling and spitting at people. And I can imagine how I would feel if someone treated me the way my dd was treating other people. I also tried to help her understand how she was feeling. And (I know this will not sit well with some







) one of the things we do is try to let her know we understand how she feels - but also feelings don't justify certain behaviors. For instance, I tell my daughter that even though she feels like hitting someone it doesn't mean it's okay to DO it. I tried to let her know that I understood *why* she felt like yelling at people, that everyone feels like that sometimes, and I'd do all I could to help her avoid the situation and help her understand the times when she would likely feel this way, *but* I also expected her to be polite if the "I'm in the spotlight" situation arose. For me that's about self control - not making someone feel "better".

I totally understand if someone doesn't choose to do things the way I did - every kid is different! But I also don't think the way I handled our situation taught my daughter to put herself second or stuff her feeling in favor of making others feel better. In fact, I have living proof of it!









Enough already!
Eve


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Strange that these threads, which basically say whohoo for the cool kid asserting him/herself by scowling at the well-meaning smiles and words of strangers, exist next to threads complaining about about how strangers give mothers with kids bad looks when their kids are too loud in restaurants or on planes.

What is it exactly that we want?! We want strangers to treat our kids like little adults (we don't usually smile and wink and say sweet hellos to adults standing in line at Target) at the same time that we want strangers to not expect kids to be act little adults.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
What is it exactly that we want?! We want strangers to treat our kids like little adults (we don't usually smile and wink and say sweet hellos to adults standing in line at Target) at the same time that we want strangers to not expect kids to be act little adults.

Yes. I see no conflict with that.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom*
Yes. I see no conflict with that.










yea, I knew someone was going to say that


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## our veggie baby (Jan 31, 2005)

I understand your point mamawanabe, seriously I do, but I think it is a bit different and I will tell you why I think so..

I expect people to respect my daughters space, boundries, body and instincts. I don't care if she is 5, 15, or 35...it really has nothing to do with treating her like an adult or "child" because I believe that there is no distinction when it relates to basic human rights (respect for body, personal space etc)...you have to believe that somehow children are inferior if you believe that adults deserve respect in their personal space, bodies, etc and children don't...know what I mean...and when a stranger, though however well meaning, walks up to a 3 year old in their face with a "HIIIIIIIII!!!!!" ...perhaps touching their hair or trying to shake their hand or whatever else, and the said child is like, terrified because they don't know this person, or they don't like attention, etc that is clearly sending the messege ---I don't feel you are deserving of your personal space--- (this doesn't apply to children who have no problem engaging with strangers etc...as it is their choice)

Where the conflict comes in, is when people expect children to act like "adults" as it relates to impulse control and self control and what takes years of growth and maturity to achieve (I am almost 28 and I still don't have impulse control down completely!!)....whereas instincts are instincts...I don't believe most scowling children are trying to be rude/mean etc....they are simply following instincts that they are feeling uncomfortable at the moment for whatever reason...and that should be respected imo...
similarly, I don't feel most children are being rude and obnoxious purposefully when they are tired/hungry/bored or just plain too young, in a restaurant and they are acting out or like "children"...it is a whole different issue if the said strangers give the parents a disapproving look because as crunchy and AP and everything as I am, I don't expect you to have your hungry/tired/bored 2 year old in a quiet nice restaurant at like 10 at night...but again, that is the issue with the parents, not AT ALL with the CHILD...and has nothing to do with the child being expected to act like an adult ....but I digress...

Anyway, I hope my personal perspective clears up why there is a paradox...it is all whether you see children as equal persons deserving of equal rights as it related to basic human rights...in a restaurant for example, it is not your *right* to be there, it is a privledge, so like, if an adult was running around going mental and screaming, I would expect them to be asked to leave, but we give children more allowances because of what I described above--lack of impulse control, lack of control over where their parents take them/hunger/boredom etc...whereas it is a fundamental RIGHT in my opinion, of ALL humans, to be safe and comfortable in their personal space, body, etc...

HTH see where I at least, am coming from!


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## Staceyhsmom1 (May 7, 2002)

I am so grateful for this topic!

My dd just turned 2 and she has THE cutest scowl face ever! lol
She bends her head down, frowns, wrinkles her forehead and looks up giving you 'evil eyes'......it's adorable! lol
It's also a huge signal she is not happy or it showing her displeasure.

She spits too, and screams, or growls, or yells 'Raaaaaaaahhhhh' like a dinosaur.

When she spits I tell her 'we spit in the sink' and leave it at that...we do spit in the sink when we're brushing our teeth









The hardest lesson is realizing I have no control over this being, that I cannot make her 'be nice and appropriate' I have no control. I can only guide. This lesson is hardest to learn when you are not around like-minded people, and I too, find myself apologizing, but do so less and less lately. I usually tell her we don't yell at our 'friends' even if we just met them.


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## kayjayjay (Jul 15, 2003)

ITA with our veggie baby. I think the problem with Sophie is that she is this little moppet of a kid that everyone wants to treat like a doll not a person, and at the same time she has the social skills of a shy little barely 4yo girl. I honestly don't blame her sometimes, if I were her I think I'd scowl at people too. I have three little girls, and they're all very pretty, and they are all always with me, but people don't bother my 8yo or even the 8month old. They zero right in on Sophie, the poor kid.

The problem with us is really me, and how I've been handling it. I feel bad for the nice older ladies that just want to talk to her, but my job as Sophie's mom is to help her feel safe, not to make sure she doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. It would be nice, of course, if I could do both. Which is why I asked for suggestions.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

My ds who will be 5 in May has been doing this same thing for years. While he is not small for his age, he has a sweet round cherub face and now with his new glasses he gets talked to all the time. I have just taught him that it is ok to not want to talk to strangers. But that he must be polite, so I either tell him or he remembers and will say:
Please don't talk to me
Please don't touch me
Please leave me alone
Please go away

I figure as long as he is polite he has the right to not want anyone he is not comfortable with talking/touching/looking at him.

Honestly I am super glad that he hates strange ppl, much less chance of him going off with someone unlike his brother who will tell anyone our whole family history :LOL


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Wanted to add that when this happens I usually tell ppl that he is just shy and that I am sorry he just does not like ppl he does not know. Ppl usually understand and honestly if they don't I really don't care.


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