# Am I being unreasonable? DH and alcohol...



## Sumada (Mar 7, 2008)

Help me put this is perspective...

My dh went out Fri night with his brother who is in town from CA. I had to work early Saturday, and he even said he "knew that he had to watch kids the next day" (we have 2 ds - one is 3 yo and the other 4 mo) so he wasn't going to go overboard. Well sure enough, at 2am he comes stumbling in (I'm a light sleeper) and then I hear him run to the bathroom and throw up. Before I leave for work the next morning I have to poke and prod him to get up because the kids were up and he looks like he's about to fall back asleep any minute. I was so worried at work. I called several times, to his cell and home and he never returned my call. Finally at about 1pm, his brother calls me to tell me that my dh is sleeping while the baby naps and that he (the brother) took the baby all morning while my dh watched the 3 yo, which I'm sure means the tv was on all morning...

I just don't have tolerance for my dh being hung over and in charge of my kids! This is not the first time...I know he has gone out before, gotten trashed and thrown up a handful of times before. I don't care if he goes out, but do you have to get wasted?? So much so that you throw up? When you know you have to watch kids the next day??

I brought this up to him yesterday...pretty much said that he can go out and party and get wasted but don't come back here and that he was being a crappy role model of how a father should behave. He tried to make excuses, like he didn't know how strong the drinks were, he was just buzzed. Then I told him I knew he threw up. He was speechless. He seemed really shocked/embarrassed that I knew he threw up. He doesn't know that I have heard him throw up before.

We had issues in the past with him drinking and treating me bad. He just gets really disrespectful towards me when he's had a couple, more in the tone of his voice, nothing violent. It seems to have gotten better, but now I am dealing with this. Part of me wonders if he has a problem, but part of me knows this is what guys do sometimes...not that it makes it any better.

Am I overreacting to this situation?

His dad is an alcoholic too...


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

No, you are not overreacting, I would not be OK with that at all.


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## McGucks (Nov 27, 2010)

Of course you are not over-reacting. Horrible things could have happened. Children have to be supervised, and supervised well. That's just a basic.

I would advise you to get in touch with a counselor and Al-Anon. You have a serious and dangerous problem in your family. I have BDTD in a couple aspects and am wishing you much luck and love.


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

yes, it is a problem. it's a problem because you need a partner who you can rely on, who can reasonably understand the consequences of his actions, and who treats you with respect and kindness. an adult understands that the consequences of going out late and drinking means that he will be hung-over and sick the next day, and that heavy drinking the night before will impede his ability to take care of important responsibilities. this is not "what guys do"... this is what teenagers and alcoholics do.

i don't think that parents and partners shouldn't be able to go out and cut loose every once in a while. i've come home a little tipsy from girls night out, while my husband was home with the baby. but i do have in the back of my mind that i'm still a parent, and i'd never want to be so drunk that if my husband called and said they had to go the ER, i wouldn't be able to function. and never in a million years would either of us think it was okay to come home drunk when we had childcare responsibilities the next day.

to me, this situation (not to mention the verbal abuse) means that he lacks some serious judgement, and i personally would not want to be partnered to someone like that. if you can convince him that his drinking is a real problem and he seeks help, then fine, maybe things will work out. but unless he realizes that in general alcohol is a problem (i.e not just a mistake in this particular circumstance, but a larger issue), i'm not sure there's much you can do besides finding alternative childcare and deciding what you want to do about the relationship in the longterm.


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## gitanamama (Feb 17, 2011)

First of all--sending some big hugs your way. I know how rough it can be dealing with these issues. You're not overreacting at all. Parenting is a joint responsibility and you deserve to have a partner you can rely on. I agree with the recommendation that you seek counseling and also attend an al-anon meeting. In my experience, it takes serious work to change unhealthy patterns, especially when it comes to alcohol and other substances and most people need professional help (counseling, AA, etc.) to stop. Hopefully your dh will realize that he's putting his children at risk and setting an unhealthy example, and will seek treatment of some sort. Best of luck and lots of supportive thoughts headed your way!


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## Sumada (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks for all your support. I just don't quite know how to proceed from here...there is so much going on. We are suppose to go to his family reunion this weekend, which I feel means more booze...I'm suppose to have knee surgery next month and will need lots of help, plus I am EXHAUSTED with the new baby. I can't imagine doing this alone. But I also know not to take a sh!t from anyone, including my dh. Do I tell him to move out unless he gets help? I highly doubt that he will seek it...much like his father would not go to treatment when he was confronted about his drinking problem.

I can probably count the number of times on one hand this has happened...all since we had kids. Can't remember if it happened pre-kids, I probably just didn't care that much. I like to go out and have a good time too and have had my share of drunk episodes (not purposely getting trashed, just not paying attention to how much I was drinking), but none since kids.

I'm afraid if I give him one more chance, he'll just hide it better. I know there is some sort of problem if this is the way he handles alcohol (not very responsibly!) and want to help him. Crap. This sucks. 99% of the time he is great - a great hubby that makes me laugh when I am sad/angry and helps around the house, deals with my shortcomings.

It would almost be easier if there were physical abuse. That's something I would in no way put up with - cut and dry - I'm out the door with the kids. Does that make sense? This issue just has so many layers...


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

yes, i definitely know what you mean. i think you should be willing to give him another chance if you haven't been clear before on how unacceptable you find this. again, if it were me, i'd tell him that i was still very upset and angry about the situation this week and i would like him to not drink at all this weekend and not go out drinking with his friends for a certain amount of time (not ever again, but 3 months or something?). i don't like ultimatums, i think adults shouldn't be treated like children by their spouses, but this will give you a little insight into what exactly his problem is. if he is willing to agree and can easily follow through, then i'd say this was a bad judgment call. if he's willing to agree but can't follow through or isn't even willing to agree at all, you have a better idea of how serious the problem is.

have you read "too bad to stay, too good to leave"? a good friend of mine used it while working through the break-up of her marriage and found it very helpful. i've read excerpts of it and think it can be a good tool for complicated situations like yours.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caedenmomma*
> 
> Of course you are not over-reacting. Horrible things could have happened. Children have to be supervised, and supervised well. That's just a basic.
> 
> I would advise you to get in touch with a counselor and Al-Anon. You have a serious and dangerous problem in your family. I have BDTD in a couple aspects and am wishing you much luck and love.


I completely agree here. This is not responsible parenting. Your children deserve better.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I completely agree. I don't know your financial situation or specifics of your job, but you might need to let him know that if he's wasted going into watching your kids you'll have to either a) pay for daycare elsewhere (maybe there is a quality drop in place there or a friend you can pay to watch your kids) or b) call in sick because your kids are a priority even if financially that is not the best idea. Looking at it monetarily might make your dh rethink his actions.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Just a thought. No, guys DON'T do this sometimes, not partnered parents. That is, unless they have a substance abuse problem.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

If it only happened once or twice a year (bachelor party/out of town friend visit/etc) I'd say you're overreacting. But this sounds like more than that so yeah I'd be plenty mad.

I've had a few nights since I became a mom where I had too much to drink and was hungover. I didn't mean too, but damn those margaritas are tasty and stronger than I thought. Yes, I woke up hungover and DD1 watched cartoons for 3 hours while I napped. Do I think it makes me a bad mom? No, I think it makes me a human who does dumb things occasionally.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> I've had a few nights since I became a mom where I had too much to drink and was hungover. I didn't mean too, but damn those margaritas are tasty and stronger than I thought. Yes, I woke up hungover and DD1 watched cartoons for 3 hours while I napped. Do I think it makes me a bad mom? No, I think it makes me a human who does dumb things occasionally.


I think you've been very lucky. I have one that could have burnt the house down or made total mayhem if left unsupervised that long. Please don't make a habit of that. Your kid deserves better. If you need to let your hair down maybe you could trade sleepovers with one of the daughter's playdate families.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> I think you've been very lucky. I have one that could have burnt the house down or made total mayhem if left unsupervised that long. Please don't make a habit of that. Your kid deserves better. If you need to let your hair down maybe you could trade sleepovers with one of the daughter's playdate families.


How could house have burnt the house down while I napped in the same room with her laying next to me? I don't see that as any different from cosleeping. There's no way she could have gotten out of the room without me waking up.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> How could house have burnt the house down while I napped in the same room with her laying next to me? I don't see that as any different from cosleeping. There's no way she could have gotten out of the room without me waking up.


Ah, but your post didn't say that. You can sleep through the tv running? I never can.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Ah, but your post didn't say that. You can sleep through the tv running? I never can.


It didn't occur to me to post specific details. And I can half doze, that annoying awake/asleep thing. It's better than nothing.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

OP, how often is this happening?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Document, document, document, document. Something tells me you'll need the documentation once you get sick and tired of his BS.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Ditto. BTDT once. Have I dont it since? NO! Would I do it again? Not on purpose. Im not a bad parent either. I consider myself a pretty great mother actually. HOWEVER, if this has happened a few times a year since your first was born, it may be escalating. Because IMO, he should have learned the first time this was a bad habbit to get into.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> If it only happened once or twice a year (bachelor party/out of town friend visit/etc) I'd say you're overreacting. But this sounds like more than that so yeah I'd be plenty mad.
> 
> I've had a few nights since I became a mom where I had too much to drink and was hungover. I didn't mean too, but damn those margaritas are tasty and stronger than I thought. Yes, I woke up hungover and DD1 watched cartoons for 3 hours while I napped. Do I think it makes me a bad mom? No, I think it makes me a human who does dumb things occasionally.


 Just so you know, physical abuse is rarely this cut and dry. many women still find it very hard to walk away, because the beating usually go hand in hand with emotional abuse and gaslighting. And it *MAY* have started with something as innocent as a great hubby who got wasted occassionally and was to hungover to watch the kids by himself. These situations have cycles and patterns. Just sayin.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> It would almost be easier if there were physical abuse. That's something I would in no way put up with - cut and dry - I'm out the door with the kids. Does that make sense? This issue just has so many layers...


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~*
> 
> Just so you know, physical abuse is rarely this cut and dry. many women still find it very hard to walk away, because the beating usually go hand in hand with emotional abuse and gaslighting. And it *MAY* have started with something as innocent as a great hubby who got wasted occassionally and was to hungover to watch the kids by himself. These situations have cycles and patterns. Just sayin.


Ditto, physical abuse is often _far_ from 'cut & dry'... and feels very different when you're actually the one in that situation.

Just to give you a bit of a comparison point, my DH is from an alcoholic family as well. Since we got married, there was one time he got way too drunk (fortunately it was before we had kids). The next day, he knew he'd gone too far (though at least he's a 'nice' drunk!), and he knew it was completely unacceptable. Several years later, he has never once gotten drunk again. We have a discussion before every event at which there will be alcohol, and he agrees to have only one drink if he'll be driving, and no more than 2-3 (beers) otherwise. I know it is hard for him to turn down the 4th beer but he is doing it because he knows he has responsibilities to others beyond himself. Healthy people learn from their mistakes. I know some people are OK with getting drunk (to me, it's morally wrong), but even then you need to do it in a controlled environment -- i.e. no kids to watch, no driving involved, etc. It concerns me that your DH has made this 'mistake' multiple times, even after planning to not go overboard. It concerns me that he's allowing himself to drink so much when he knows he has alcoholism in his genes. It especially concerns me that he tries to hide it all. Lots of red flags there.


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## Sumada (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilverFish*
> 
> to me, this situation (not to mention the verbal abuse) means that he lacks some serious judgement, and i personally would not want to be partnered to someone like that. if you can convince him that his drinking is a real problem and he seeks help, then fine, maybe things will work out. but unless he realizes that in general alcohol is a problem (i.e not just a mistake in this particular circumstance, but a larger issue), i'm not sure there's much you can do besides finding alternative childcare and deciding what you want to do about the relationship in the longterm.


I don't know if I should have called the situation we had been through before "verbal abuse." It was more like snapping at me, saying things like "don't worry, gosh/you worry too much" and speaking about the situation we were in at the moment. He has never put me down.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilverFish*
> 
> yes, i definitely know what you mean. i think you should be willing to give him another chance if you haven't been clear before on how unacceptable you find this. again, if it were me, i'd tell him that i was still very upset and angry about the situation this week and i would like him to not drink at all this weekend and not go out drinking with his friends for a certain amount of time (not ever again, but 3 months or something?).
> 
> have you read "too bad to stay, too good to leave"? a good friend of mine used it while working through the break-up of her marriage and found it very helpful. i've read excerpts of it and think it can be a good tool for complicated situations like yours.


It's so crazy saying this, but we live in WI and it's like EVERYONE drinks. Social gatherings, whatever, there are always drinks. It's hard to get away from. I grew up totally different then him, Lutheran family, in MN. I never saw my parents drink alcohol. At family gathering we never had alcohol until I was 21, now there is only wine, never hard liquor or beer. When I met my dh, I thought at first it was very odd that everyone always had beer. I kind of think that's the culture around here. Originally where he is from is northern WI and after visiting there and seeing some of his friends (or not, because they are at the bar and we have kids, so we don't really go out to bars there anymore) he will make some comment about how bad so and so's drinking has become. So weird, but I think it's engrained in these people. Anyway, I will tell you right now that I know that NOT drinking this weekend is just not an option this weekend. I mean, I guess I'll mull it over, but I just don't see how that would work for him. I think asking him to drink responsibly is a better option.

Then I meet people like his brother's new girlfriend who carries a 12 pack of beer in the trunk of her car always and I think that his problem is not all that bad...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> If it only happened once or twice a year (bachelor party/out of town friend visit/etc) I'd say you're overreacting. But this sounds like more than that so yeah I'd be plenty mad.
> 
> I've had a few nights since I became a mom where I had too much to drink and was hungover. I didn't mean too, but damn those margaritas are tasty and stronger than I thought. Yes, I woke up hungover and DD1 watched cartoons for 3 hours while I napped. Do I think it makes me a bad mom? No, I think it makes me a human who does dumb things occasionally.


And it probably only happens this often. He is a really social guy and likes to go out with friends. As do I, but my sleep is more important to me right now, so I choose not to go out with friends. But if my brother was in town, I'd probably go out too. I would also make sure that I drink glasses and glasses of water after every drink. Dh told me that his brother was buying the drinks and did not realize how strong they were. Do I believe that? Sure. But I just don't know why you wouldn't stop once you felt buzzed or drink more water.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> OP, how often is this happening?


Right around when ds 1 was the age of ds 2 (4 mo) I remember the issues with him being a jerk to me when he drank started. I was only a couple of times. He apologized and it stopped. I can think of 2 times this year and maybe 1 time last year where I heard him puking when he got home from going out with friends. Those times he didn't have to watch the kids, he was either going to work the next day or it was a weekend I had off.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Document, document, document, document. Something tells me you'll need the documentation once you get sick and tired of his BS.


Thanks for this. I will do so. Hate to do it, but I need to.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~*
> 
> Ditto. BTDT once. Have I dont it since? NO! Would I do it again? Not on purpose. Im not a bad parent either. I consider myself a pretty great mother actually. HOWEVER, if this has happened a few times a year since your first was born, it may be escalating. Because IMO, he should have learned the first time this was a bad habbit to get into.
> 
> Just so you know, physical abuse is rarely this cut and dry. many women still find it very hard to walk away, because the beating usually go hand in hand with emotional abuse and gaslighting. And it *MAY* have started with something as innocent as a great hubby who got wasted occassionally and was to hungover to watch the kids by himself. These situations have cycles and patterns. Just sayin.


Yeah, after I wrote that line about physical abuse, I was thinking more about it. I can see how it's brings up the same things I'm going through right now - "he's a good guy 99% of the time..." Shouldn't have written that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> Ditto, physical abuse is often _far_ from 'cut & dry'... and feels very different when you're actually the one in that situation.
> 
> Just to give you a bit of a comparison point, my DH is from an alcoholic family as well. Since we got married, there was one time he got way too drunk (fortunately it was before we had kids). The next day, he knew he'd gone too far (though at least he's a 'nice' drunk!), and he knew it was completely unacceptable. Several years later, he has never once gotten drunk again. We have a discussion before every event at which there will be alcohol, and he agrees to have only one drink if he'll be driving, and no more than 2-3 (beers) otherwise. I know it is hard for him to turn down the 4th beer but he is doing it because he knows he has responsibilities to others beyond himself. Healthy people learn from their mistakes. I know some people are OK with getting drunk (to me, it's morally wrong), but even then you need to do it in a controlled environment -- i.e. no kids to watch, no driving involved, etc. It concerns me that your DH has made this 'mistake' multiple times, even after planning to not go overboard. It concerns me that he's allowing himself to drink so much when he knows he has alcoholism in his genes. It especially concerns me that he tries to hide it all. Lots of red flags there.


Technically the person he calls his father is not his biological father. I'm just so used to saying it's his "dad." Dh does not know his real father. He met his step dad when he was around 7 yo. His step dad has major problems with drugs and alcohol. It's the reason his step dad and mom got divorced 10 years ago. I see that his dad drinks Windsor and cheap vodka and will finish off a huge bottle of those during the coarse of the day. I'm talking the huge bottles with the handles. Now that is when he has been up with family so maybe he's just having a good time, but I'm sure he drinks a lot when he is alone too. I know dh seems to think so. Huge red flags go off when I see those kinds of liquor at our house. I don't know how else to make a point to dh other than gently bringing up his dad's drinking problem. Do I go down the road of "do you want to end up like your dad?" I know dh sees his dad's drinking problem and knows how much he drinks and is concerned. It just seems like dh is not making the connection while he himself is drinking and having a good time.


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> Part of me wonders if he has a problem, but part of me knows this is what guys do sometimes...not that it makes it any better.
> 
> Am I overreacting to this situation?
> ...


Guys do not all do this. If my husband came home that drunk even once without prior approval (and it being a really special occasion or something) then we would have a serious issue. My Dad was an alcoholic and I'm not willing to live with any sort of alcohol issue. I think with a family history of alcoholism he ought to be being even more careful than an average person.


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## gitanamama (Feb 17, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> It's so crazy saying this, but we live in WI and it's like EVERYONE drinks. Social gatherings, whatever, there are always drinks. It's hard to get away from. I grew up totally different then him, Lutheran family, in MN. I never saw my parents drink alcohol. At family gathering we never had alcohol until I was 21, now there is only wine, never hard liquor or beer. When I met my dh, I thought at first it was very odd that everyone always had beer. I kind of think that's the culture around here. Originally where he is from is northern WI and after visiting there and seeing some of his friends (or not, because they are at the bar and we have kids, so we don't really go out to bars there anymore) he will make some comment about how bad so and so's drinking has become. So weird, but I think it's engrained in these people.


I definitely understand different cultural norms and expectations when it comes to drinking. My husband is from Peru and it's totally accepted (even expected) for men there to drink a TON at any social gathering. I think you're right that it is engrained in many ways--our cultural backgrounds play a huge role in our behavior and beliefs. What it comes down to for me is what behavior I'm willing to accept and what expectations I have of my partner. It's good to recognize that you grew up with very different cultural standards, but in any relationship, both partners have to compromise a certain amount. You have every right to set and hold certain boundaries, especially when it comes to the safety of your kiddos. Hopefully your hubby will understand that drinking to the point of vomiting is unacceptable to you and will do what needs to be done to change that behavior. It sounds like you're pretty understanding and lenient already when it comes to letting your husband go out and have fun, and you have every right to draw the line when it comes to getting TOO drunk. Just my take on it........


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

My take on the "it's the culture, it's what guys do" thing is tempered by the fact that my DH is from Ireland and moved here as an adult. They drink. It's what they are known for.

When Dh was in his 20's, he still sometimes got drunk. He never once said a harsh word to me when he was drunk, he never once drove over the limit, and he never once was unable to meet his responsibilities because of drinking. Getting drunk was a very planned activity that never caused a problem of any sort.

His drinking gradually decreased until now (he's 43) he has a beer or two when we are out with friends, but that's it. He never drinks at home, and never has more than 2, and really doesn't care what other guys are doing. He never goes out to bars without me.

One of my friends who was in AA said the the definition of an alcoholic doesn't include how much a person drinks, but rather, the impact that their drinking has. It doesn't matter if someone only drinks once a year, if when they do, they are out of control and cause problems, then they have a drinking problem.

When your husband drinks, it's a problem. If he cannot see that and change his behavior, it will most likely get worse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> We had issues in the past with him drinking and treating me bad. He just gets really disrespectful towards me when he's had a couple, more in the tone of his voice, nothing violent. It seems to have gotten better, but now I am dealing with this. Part of me wonders if he has a problem, but part of me knows *this is what guys do sometimes..*.not that it makes it any better.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> It's so crazy saying this, but we live in WI and it's like EVERYONE drinks. Social gatherings, whatever, there are always drinks. It's hard to get away from.....
> 
> Right around when ds 1 was the age of ds 2 (4 mo) I remember the issues with him being a jerk to me when he drank started. I was only a couple of times. He apologized and it stopped. I can think of 2 times this year and maybe 1 time last year where I heard him puking when he got home from going out with friends.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

we have a couple rules around DF drinking (I don't drink because of just not liking the taste/smell of alcohol). drinking is always planned in advance, he never drives drunk, he never cosleeps if he's had more than one beer (and then it has to be a couple hours before bedtime), he never gets drunk if there are things he has to do the next day, he's never drunk or hungover if he's going to need to be in charge of the kids, he's never drunk around me or the kids. we set those rules down when our first was about a week old, and he hasn't had trouble sticking to them.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

5-6 times in over 3 years wouldn't bother me. In fact I'd say it serves him right to have to care for kids that young instead of getting to sleep all day like he would have if you were home. If I was mad I'd probably feed the older one some sugar before I left & tell him to go wake daddy.

Would he have cared for both kids if he hadn't had help?

Being hungover & caring for kids isn't fun. Physically it is no different than if you had a stomach virus & were caring for the kids. At 3 there is no reason why he'd have to know dad was sick because he was drinking the night before.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

I want to give you another perspective, maybe it'll help you see things in a different light. My Hubby has Type I diabetes. If his blood sugar gets high he has a hard time being responsible. His doctors have told him its akin to being drunk (we don't drink, never have, so I don't know).

If its his responsibility to have the kids and he allows his blood sugars to get high (eat the wrong foods, not dosing with insulin in a timely manner) I get pretty irate. We've had a lot of discussions about it and he's doing much better. He has a hard time sometimes when I tell him to take care of himself because his mom 'policed' him about his diabetes. In a backwards way he tries to prove he's an adult by acting childish.









Anyways, I'm sorry if this doesn't help, it connected in my mind and I felt like it would be a good thing to share. Basically I see your DH reaction more about shunning responsibility and not facing a problem he has rather than having it be all about the drinking.










Edited for typos. They like to breed.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

It's kind of hard to tell from your posts exactly what's going on. In your first post, he sounded kind of like a mean, possibly abusive, definitely irresponsible alcoholic. In your second one, it sounded more like he just drank a little too much a few times -- which I wouldn't (personally) be OK with but doesn't sound like he gets abusive or anything, and at least he called someone to watch the baby. So maybe you are rationalizing for him in the second post, or maybe I read too much into your first post. I'm sure it's hard for even you to figure things out. I hope you can gain some clarity in this, it sounds tough!!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
> At 3 there is no reason why he'd have to know dad was sick because he was drinking the night before.


I wonder how old kids need to be to figure out that when Dad goes out with certain people, mom is stressed out ahead of time because she knows that dad will come home drunk, be mean, and then vomit. And then be worthless the next day.

I wonder how old kids are before they learn "that's just what guys do."


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Once or twice a year drinking to that extent wouldn't bother me. And I've watched my kids while suffering from severe migraine headaches, and I don't think I was any more "with it" than someone hung over. However, there is a choice involved in being hung over, and none in having a headache, and watching kids while any kind of sick is not ideal. I think the issue is more complicated than either "this isn't as big a deal as it sounds" or "this is entirely unacceptable." It's somewhere between those two but I think only you can probablly figure out just where it is.


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## Sumada (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> It's kind of hard to tell from your posts exactly what's going on. In your first post, he sounded kind of like a mean, possibly abusive, definitely irresponsible alcoholic. In your second one, it sounded more like he just drank a little too much a few times -- which I wouldn't (personally) be OK with but doesn't sound like he gets abusive or anything, and at least he called someone to watch the baby. So maybe you are rationalizing for him in the second post, or maybe I read too much into your first post. I'm sure it's hard for even you to figure things out. I hope you can gain some clarity in this, it sounds tough!!


Well, in my first post I was PISSED! I am not trying to rationalize for him, if you are referring to the other comment by me about how everyone around here drinks. It's just tough for me b/c it's so a part of the culture he grew up in and we are around and I totally didn't grow up seeing people drink hardly at all. It's difficult for me b/c I am afraid I will not know when there is a real problem. For a while I thought it was really crazy that dh would come home and have a beer after work some days of the week. But then I saw lots of others around us do it. And shoot, I have a glass of wine most days with dinner.

And he didn't call anyone to watch the baby. His brother was staying here while he was in town. I know his brother usually sleeps in really late...like until 11am, so I wonder what really went down that morning. My ds 1, who is 3 probably went into the room where dh's brother was and woke him up. Maybe he offered to watch ds 2 b/c he could see dh was really hungover?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I wonder how old kids need to be to figure out that when Dad goes out with certain people, mom is stressed out ahead of time because she knows that dad will come home drunk, be mean, and then vomit. And then be worthless the next day.
> 
> I wonder how old kids are before they learn "that's just what guys do."


I know. I'm really worried about the impact on my children. Even though they are young, they start to pick up a lot. I guess I need to decide if this continues. But is this something I leave for?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Once or twice a year drinking to that extent wouldn't bother me. And I've watched my kids while suffering from severe migraine headaches, and I don't think I was any more "with it" than someone hung over. However, there is a choice involved in being hung over, and none in having a headache, and watching kids while any kind of sick is not ideal. I think the issue is more complicated than either "this isn't as big a deal as it sounds" or "this is entirely unacceptable." It's somewhere between those two but I think only you can probablly figure out just where it is.


I guess I'm just mad too because I know I would never, EVER go out and get so drunk that I threw up and knew that I had to watch my kids the next day. Not to say I wouldn't go out - I've totally done that, even stayed out until bar time, but I drank just a little and drank a TON of water.

This has at least given me the chance to think more about his drinking. I think it may be a problem of he doesn't know when to stop. When I think about it now, he never takes a break to drink some water, or soda or anything else, especially if it's a situation where we are going to be around alcohol all afternoon and evening, like a family gathering. I mean, this is only what I am remembering. I plan to take a closer look from now on.

BTW, we still really haven't talked much since the weekend. I'm still waiting for an apology. It's so hard to talk about our problems when we have kids. By the time the older one is in bed, I am nursing the baby down to sleep and then I am so tired, I usually fall asleep.


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## mkksmom (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crunchy_mommy*
> 
> No, you are not overreacting, I would not be OK with that at all.


I agree.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

OP, you need to talk to your husband. He might not have apologized b/c he doesn't think it's a big deal, he's completely embarrassed, he's hoping that you won't bring it up and he can pretend it never happened, etc. There's a million reasons. I understand you can't talk with the kids around. Put the oldest in front of a cartoon, the baby in a playpen or swing or something and talk in another room. You'll never know why he drank so much, why he didn't answer the phone, his thought son any of this or hear his side unless you do this. He is the person you need to talk this through with, not us. Especially since our answers are all the over the place.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> Yeah, after I wrote that line about physical abuse, I was thinking more about it. I can see how it's brings up the same things I'm going through right now - "he's a good guy 99% of the time..." *Shouldn't have written that.*


.

Why not? It was accurate, right? But it's startling, too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lazurii*
> 
> I want to give you another perspective, maybe it'll help you see things in a different light. My Hubby has Type I diabetes. If his blood sugar gets high he has a hard time being responsible. His doctors have told him its akin to being drunk (we don't drink, never have, so I don't know).
> 
> ...


Excellent post, great point.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Unless you make yourself heard on how unacceptable this behavior is to you, your going to be waiting for a LOOOOONG time.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> BTW, we still really haven't talked much since the weekend. *I'm still waiting for an apology.* It's so hard to talk about our problems when we have kids. By the time the older one is in bed, I am nursing the baby down to sleep and then I am so tired, I usually fall asleep.


I understand the toll a routine of two very small children takes on a marriage. BELIEVE ME. However, if its important to you (and him) to make it work for the long haul, you find a way to communicate. Try to discuss it in a mature, adult-like manner while the older one is sleeping and your nursing the baby. Tell him not to get defensive, and you are fullly aware of your own faults that could use attention. That way he wont feel attacked and that its allllll about his faults, and he may stay calm, receptive, and open to discussion.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I understand how hard it is to find time to talk while taking care of a small child and a baby.









I was thinking about how you posted this thread in Family Safety instead of one of the other forums, such as Parents as Partners. When you posted this, you were seeing your DH's drinking as a SAFETY concern. That, right there, says a great deal. I don' think you were just pissed, I think you are also a little scared for your child's safety.

I was also thinking about how the responses have been all over the board, and while I'm sure each of our experiences effect that, I wonder if that part of the reason is that the situation is *most likely* to change. Either he'll figure out that drinking to the point of vomiting, being extremely ill, fighting with his soul mate, and being unable to meet his responsibilities to his children is pretty stupid so he cuts back, or he'll increase how often he does this.

The amount that he is going over the line is something that is fairly common for younger people when they drink -- something that a lot of people who aren't alcoholics do when they are figuring out how their bodies process alcohol. I think that part of the difference between an alcoholic and a person who drinks but isn't an alcoholic is their ability to LEARN from the experience and modify their future behavior.

When you talk to him, I think you could focus on how his behavior effected you and how it effected the kids. Hopefully, for your entire family, he'll be able to learn from this experience and grow.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

OP, I completely get it about the culture. Around here it's beer, beer, beer, beer, and more beer. I am just as much a beer drinker as my dh. Over the years, though, we've had to learn our limits, and esp. after having children. We've been together a LONG time. I remember when my dh would scare me a bit because he would not drink water between his beers. I got to where I would take him a glass and stand there 'til he drank it. And I would do this often if we were having a bbq or something (if we go out we have our adult dd be designated driver). Over time he started realizing it made him feel much better and he started doing it on his own. Now he's really good about it, and it is esp. important here where we live, considering it's been hotter than heck this year, and we are always working outside. Now, I don't care to act like my dh's mother, but sometimes when someone we care about has trouble finding their own limits/taking care of themselves, it's ok to step in and help.


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## Comtessa (Sep 16, 2008)

OP, you didn't mention anything about your DH's evening transportation -- was he driving that night? IMO, the most significant safety concern here is him getting behind the wheel while that drunk, or getting a car with someone else who had been drinking (i.e., his brother?). We have a pretty big alcohol-centered social culture here, too, and I notice that people who drink often in a social context do not have much concern about getting behind the wheel when they have been drinking. "I'm fine! Don't worry!" Etc.

Most people in our social circles consider it the height of rudeness to question someone else's self-assessment on this point. Here's an example:

DH: "He's a responsible adult. If he says he's ok to drive, I'm sure he's fine."

me: "But he had at least 6 beers tonight. I don't think we should let him drive."

DH: "He can't afford a cab. I'm sure he'll be ok, it's only a few miles away."

me: "Can't we drive him?"

DH: "No, he'll be insulted if we tell him he's too drunk to drive."

Et cetera.

To me, this is a safety issue -- not just for driver and passengers, but for everyone else on the road! To DH, it's a 'politeness' issue. In his world, it's impolite to imply that you think someone has gone over her/his limit with alcohol. I worry about this with my DH, because it makes him far more likely to either a) get behind the wheel when he's had too much (because to do otherwise is to suggest that he hasn't been a 'responsible adult' with alcohol, or that he can't hold his beer) or b) get in a car with someone who's been drinking (because to bow out would suggest that he doesn't trust the other person's assessment of his own abilities/limits/drunkenness. We have had numerous conversations about this and he knows I won't tolerate it. My best friend in college was nearly killed by a drunk driver. I take this very, very seriously.

The reason I bring this up is because it sounds to me, OP, like your DH might be in a similar kind of social situation. I would worry about this more than the hangover. Having a hangover while watching kids is not, IMO, a safety concern -- it's just like watching kids with a bad headache, or a flu bug. It sucks, and the kids probably get more TV time than is healthy for them, but it's not inherently dangerous. If he were getting drunk while caring for kids, that would be an entirely different situation.

The fact that you seem to be contemplating leaving your marriage over this point raises a big red flag for me, OP. Do you seriously think your DH has a drinking problem? Are you so concerned about it that you think you need to get out? If so, then there must be more going on than what you describe, because what you describe sounds more like a few lapses in judgment to me. If you want an apology from him for his behavior, as an OP said, you're going to be waiting a long time. He probably doesn't feel that he's done anything wrong, and that the only one who suffered from his excesses was him. If you have another point of view on this point, you need to be prepared to present that to him, and be prepared as well for him to be absolutely surprised and bewildered by your point of view. IME, in a heavy-drinking culture, what he's doing is not excessive. If it seems excessive to you, and you want him to be more responsible (i.e., NOT drinking to the point of throwing up), you need to make it really clear what acceptable limits look like to you. If he can't or won't agree to stay within those limits for YOUR sake, then I would start being concerned that the problem is bigger than just "social drinking."


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Comtessa*
> 
> I would worry about this more than the hangover. Having a hangover while watching kids is not, IMO, a safety concern -- it's just like watching kids with a bad headache, or a flu bug. It sucks, and the kids probably get more TV time than is healthy for them, but it's not inherently dangerous. If he were getting drunk while caring for kids, that would be an entirely different situation.


Depending on what time he stopped drinking, and what time the OPer left for work, he was most likely well over the line while in charge of the kids. A grown man who drank enough to vomit in the middle of the night has most likely not had enough time for his body to process all that alcohol.

He may also have been closer to being "passed out" than "sleeping."

I would not be OK leaving my children with someone who was legally drunk and half passed out. It isn't comparable to parenting with a headache. Not even close.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

DH drank so much he was unable to care for his children, even though he had made that commitment in advance. That is grossly unacceptable.

It is especially bad that he did so when he had a young infant at the home. A three year old is a lot more self sufficient but a four month old. I would be livid, and I really pretty tolerant of the doing dumb things on occasion when your friends are in town. If he didn't need to take care of the kids the next day I will be annoyed because IMHO that level of hangover is a bit pathetic in a grown bad. I think any behavior that has an adult incapicitate/passed out the next day is not okay. But, totally, totally not acceptable behavior in someone who is committed to carrying for kids, especially an infant.

What kind of transportation was involved? If he drove himself and his brother my level of anger would multiple by a factor of 10. (Luckily DH is a fan of stupid behavior + public transportation.)


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Depending on what time he stopped drinking, and what time the OPer left for work, he was most likely well over the line while in charge of the kids. A grown man who drank enough to vomit in the middle of the night has most likely not had enough time for his body to process all that alcohol.


I completely disagree with this. I know people who can have 2 or 3 drinks and puke b/c of a bad reaction, nasty mixer, the combo of alcohol in the drink or some other reason. 8 hours later they're fine BAC wise, but still hungover. Does anyone even know if OP's DH really did have a shit ton to drink or if he only had a few, but had a bad reaction?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Also, I've passed out while vomiting during migraine headaches before. It isn't that different. OTOH if my headache is that bad, my husband is home from work to watch the kids.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


> Either he'll figure out that drinking to the point of vomiting, being extremely ill, fighting with his soul mate, and being unable to meet his responsibilities to his children is pretty stupid so he cuts back, or he'll increase how often he does this.


or option #3 nothing will change & he'll do it 2-3 times a year. Doing this doesn't not mean he'll increase the amount of times he does it.

Quote:


> The amount that he is going over the line is something that is fairly common for younger people when they drink -- something that a lot of people who aren't alcoholics do when they are figuring out how their bodies process alcohol.


I disagree. As you get older it often takes LESS alcohol to get to that same point, especially if it doesn't happen that often.

Would it have been an issue if he was a person who could get very drunk but NOT puke & not be hungover the next day? Not everyone who gets sloshing drunk gets sick or is hungover the next day


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

OP-- I think his behavior is totally unacceptable. I get the drinking culture. My DH's group of friends was very much into drinking a lot at every social event. DH and I had many arguments over the years about his drinking, but it wasn't until I was pregnant with our first and he came home with a friend (friend covered in DH's vomit), and passed out, totally unresponsive all night long that I had a really serious conversation with him. I basically told him that I found it totally unacceptable to be a parent (or about to be one) and to conduct himself that way. I also told him if he expected to remain married to me, that I expected him to never ever ever come home like that ever again. He hasn't. I realize this wouldn't work with the vast majority of people, but it is probably worth a try to sit down and tell him just how unacceptable this is to you and how you think it is going to affect your kids. Being so hungover that you can't care for your kids the next day isn't okay. Maybe if he was going away for a weekend or something... I'd ask him to either keep the drinking under control at this family party, or not drink at all. See what happens...if he can't or won't agree to keep things in check, I'd find myself a good therapist and start attending Al-Anon.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CarrieMF*
> 
> I disagree. As you get older it often takes LESS alcohol to get to that same point, especially if it doesn't happen that often.
> 
> Would it have been an issue if he was a person who could get very drunk but NOT puke & not be hungover the next day? Not everyone who gets sloshing drunk gets sick or is hungover the next day


but as we get older, we tend to have more judgment and less concern for what others are doing. We have more responsibilities.

How someone's use of a substance effects their relationships and responsibilities is the key. When this guy drinks, he's mean to his wife. He knew that he had to take care of his INFANT the next day.


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Given that he was puking after 2am, and the OP had to work "early" the next morning, I don't see how he could have had 8hrs to recover after that. However, since neither he nor the OP has mentioned a particular sensitivity or an unusual circumstance, I think we can assume he was puking because he drank too much, not because he reacted to something in the one or two drinks he had. And if you're puking because you drank so much at 2am, I can't imagine you're actually totally sober (even if hungover) at 6am.


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## Toposlonoshlep (Jan 14, 2010)

So being a partnered parent means being superhuman and never going out, never making mistakes, never being yourself again? Once you're "partnered" all your problems as a human being just go away and you become a saint? Maybe because I grew up in a Russian family, I was quite ok with men in my life drinking. And Russians DRINK. When they are celebrating, getting drunk is a-ok. I grew up with my grandfather drinking in front of me at gatherings, my father, etc. I feel I'd had a great, rich, happy childhood and am not scarred for life.









The OP's partner might have a problem, but to say that people don't go out and get drunk unless they have a substance abuse problem sounds judgmental and inaccurate to me.

Now with that said, it is not the action of going out and partying that makes me think the man has a problem. It is the fact that he betrayed his family by not being able to follow through with his responsibilities.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maedze*
> 
> Just a thought. No, guys DON'T do this sometimes, not partnered parents. That is, unless they have a substance abuse problem.


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## grassisgreener1334 (Nov 24, 2006)

This post has been removed due to privacy reasons.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

HELL TO THE NO! I have one piece of advice. If this were to every happen again. You don't wake him up. You try to find someone else to watch them. Have some one for an emergency situation and start looking for them now. My DH pulled something similar once and I took the kids that morning to someone else. Can you say flip out when he woke up?! Calling me and my work and everyone short of the police. I did it because he chose to do something unfair, so I did what I thought was best for the kids, and my piece of mind. He didn't think about us or the fact that the kids needed a sober father to care for them. It's not been a problem since... well that and the divorce papers I drew up. I'm dependable and he needs to be too.


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## Viriditas (Aug 30, 2004)

I think it was pretty irresponsible of him not to make arrangements for the kids (especially a baby) when he knew he couldn't take care of them. I think that's serious, and I would make it clear that that was unacceptable. But I'm kind of appalled at the reactions expressed here to a person getting drunk once or twice a year, making assumptions about alcoholism, abuse, and recommending that the OP think about divorce!!! Seriously?

Going out, partying, and even getting drunk to the point of throwing up does not constitute a problem if its done that rarely, IMO. Parents have as much a right to let loose as anyone on occasion IF they're not drunk or puking in front of their kids, and IF it does not become habitual. I'm kind of amazed that some people think "responsible adults" NEVER have more than one or two drinks and that anything more than getting "slightly tipsy" (a subjective phrase if I ever heard one) is immature and irresponsible. Sure, you make arrangements for your kids and you don't drive, obviously, but then who cares?

The real issue here was that the OP's husband was irresponsible about the kids, NOT that he has a "drinking problem."


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viriditas*
> 
> I think it was pretty irresponsible of him not to make arrangements for the kids (especially a baby) when he knew he couldn't take care of them. I think that's serious, and I would make it clear that that was unacceptable. But I'm kind of appalled at the reactions expressed here to a person getting drunk once or twice a year, making assumptions about alcoholism, abuse, and recommending that the OP think about divorce!!! Seriously?
> 
> ...


Thanks for this -I agree completely. Getting drunk a couple of times a year is a big enough problem they should get divorced? He needs to be more careful when he has to watch kids the next morning, but even doing that once or twice a year wouldn't lead me to consider divorce. I'd just yell at him once or twice a year and have a back-up plan. In an otherwise good marriage, irresponsibility and drunkenness a couple of times a year isn't worth divorce. If it were a regular thing? Yeah, I'd consider it then.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Toposlonoshlep*
> 
> So being a partnered parent means being superhuman and never going out, never making mistakes, never being yourself again? Once you're "partnered" all your problems as a human being just go away and you become a saint?


I totally agree. I guess pretty much everyone I know has a "substance abuse problem" because they all still occasionally drink even though they are partnered. Some people go into a partnership knowing that their significant other likes to use alcohol sometimes. DH drinks beer socially and at home and occasionally drinks too much of it, and its just not a problem. Drinking and driving is a problem, drinking and brushing off responsibilities is a problem, drinking and being mean is a problem, but JUST drinking to have fun and getting a little too drunk is not something I consider a problem. Hell, Ive watched my kid hungover. It sucks, and it makes you think twice about having "one last drink" but I dont think its anymore irresponsible than watching my kid with a headache, stomach virus, or after a night of no sleep. (So, basically, my whole first trimester this time







)

I agree with PP, Id pump my kid full of sugar and let him have a blast dealing with that.

Also, how many sober people talking to drunk people DONT think their tone of voice sucks and that their tone is "harsh" or "mean". Most drunk people are excitable, emphatic, or grumpy and want to go to bed. Its pretty hard to be on the same page when one person is totally sober. I dont know many people who think to themselves, "Gee, this drunk is awesome to hang out with when Im stone cold sober!"

Personally, if my DH went out with his brother and got wasted and came home puking and had to watch the kids the next day, I think he was a grown man who is capable of making his own decisions. And if someone else was there to help him watch the kids for the day, what is the real problem other than its not your normal routine? (ie kids in front of tv, junk food, ect)


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

Hmmm.... until the last few posts, I have been really weirded out. Because here, and to be honest, every place I have ever lived in the past, people occasionally get drunk, even parents. I did not drink for several years, as I was either pregnant or breastfeeding or the mother to a young child who needed my constant attention and supervision. I think that the OP's husband was irresponsible and negligent because he was unable to properly for his young children as a result of his binge drinking, NOT because he got drunk. I CERTAINLY would not label him an alcoholic, nor do I think that this happening once is a good reason to suggest divorce. I am pretty sure it'd mess the kids up a titch more to have a broken home than to see daddy hungover.

I also find it foreign that so many of you think that drinking alcohol in front of children is somehow abusive. I have had a few beers in the back yard of my home with my friends and family while children were present. We have family bbq's where everyone of legal age has drinks, and the children are neither neglected nor abused.

I do not think drinking is wrong, and am surprised that so many of you do.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *April*autmaiajude**
> 
> Hmmm.... until the last few posts, I have been really weirded out. Because here, and to be honest, every place I have ever lived in the past, people occasionally get drunk, even parents. I did not drink for several years, as I was either pregnant or breastfeeding or the mother to a young child who needed my constant attention and supervision. I think that the OP's husband was irresponsible and negligent because he was unable to properly for his young children as a result of his binge drinking, NOT because he got drunk. I CERTAINLY would not label him an alcoholic, nor do I think that this happening once is a good reason to suggest divorce. I am pretty sure it'd mess the kids up a titch more to have a broken home than to see daddy hungover.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't have friends who need alcohol to have a good time. We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy.

Also, if you drink.. your kids will. I don't think that I want to send my kids the message that everyday drinking is okay. Or that I need alcohol to be happy or relaxed socially. I want to be the best role model I can be.

Not being able to get up and properly care for your children is a huge issue. Children need adequate supervision.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Have you ever had to watch your kids when you were sick? I get bad migraine headaches - really bad ones, sometimes to the point of passing out. I remember one time I was watching my older dd when she was a toddler, like only 18 months so really little, and I had a headache and ended up having to run to the bathroom to get sick, and then after I don't know how much time, I woke up on the bathroom floor. My dd was completely unsupervised for some period of time, and I don't even know how long. Luckily, because I was sick, the TV was on for her, and that was rare enough that she was interested enough to be sitting and watching it. I called my dh to come home from work, and he did, but what if I'd been a single mom? I have no family to call where I am currently living. I finally got strong enough pain killers to get me through those times, but I don't know if I was in very good shape to supervise kids when I was on painkillers either. Now, thankfully, I'm able to use Imitrex and don't need the narcotic painkillers, but at one point in my life that was all that was available to me.

I've also had the flu where I've been lying on the ground of the living room, not really supervising my kids. It isn't ideal, but it happens. Really, you've never had to watch your kids when you were sick and weren't doing a great job supervising?

So this dad wasn't in good shape when supervising his kid this one day, and he gets drunk like this once to twice a year. Again, not ideal, but it happened. His kids weren't in any more danger than mine when I was sick. This just isn't a big enough deal to start talking about divorce.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Really, you've never had to watch your kids when you were sick and weren't doing a great job supervising?


No. I have called a friend, neighbor or my husband home from work if I was too sick to watch them properly. This is why it is so important to have IRL support system in place. Not just for you, for the kids.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I am considering doing a poll somewhere, but I don't think this would be the right place, but anyway my guess is that you are in the minority, and most people have watched their children when very ill and haven't had another option. Particularly people with ongoing medical issues. If you are sick frequently, there will be times where you can't find someone to come over.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I am considering doing a poll somewhere, but I don't think this would be the right place, but anyway my guess is that you are in the minority, and most people have watched their children when very ill and haven't had another option. Particularly people with ongoing medical issues. If you are sick frequently, there will be times where you can't find someone to come over.


When your parents and in-laws live 5 hours away and your husband is traveling for work you don't have much of a choice but to pray your kids stay safe and that Elmo keeps them entertained while you vomit.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Sorry, I don't have friends who need alcohol to have a good time. We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy.
> 
> Also, if you drink.. your kids will. I don't think that I want to send my kids the message that everyday drinking is okay. Or that I need alcohol to be happy or relaxed socially. I want to be the best role model I can be.


Well I'm a crappy role model then. I want to teach my kids that alcohol in moderation is ok and that seeing mommy have a beer or two while playing bags at a picnic is ok if you're an adult and don't drive. Now I'm not going to be doing body shots in front of them, but if I come home from a night of those and am hungover there will be discussions about how that was stupid, etc.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Sorr*y, I don't have friends who need alcohol to have a good time.* We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy.

Also, if you drink.. your kids will. I don't think that I want to send my kids the message that everyday drinking is okay. Or that I need alcohol to be happy or relaxed socially. I want to be the best role model I can be.

Not being able to get up and properly care for your children is a huge issue. Children need adequate supervision.[/quote]

not everyone who enjoys drinking "needs" alcohol to have a good time. Some people enjoy the taste of fine crafted beer and wine and enjoy the affect it has on them.

And not all kids who have parents who drink will drink, that is just a huge generalization. And fwiw, my parents dont touch alcohol, but I love good beer and will even drink more than one when Im not pregnant.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> No. I have called a friend, neighbor or my husband home from work if I was too sick to watch them properly. This is why it is so important to have IRL support system in place. Not just for you, for the kids.


I'd rather look after my kids when I was sick than have any of my current neighbours doing so. When I was a WOHM, I didn't even know most of my neighbours, and the ones I did know, almost without exception, also WOH, so they wouldn't be there during the day. My mom also WOH full-time. My sister could sometimes come over, but not always, especially after she had my nephew. My friends were also WOH. I have some wonderful homeschool friends who are sometimes available, but many of them adctually work part-time...and they're also not close by. Depending what my husband was doing, I might be able to call him home from work (but this kind of thing can be a major black mark in a lot of companies), but I couldn't have done so with my ex, as he wasn't accessible during the day.

I don't believe I've ever met a mom irl who could count on someone coming over to watch her kids if she was sick, including the moms with quite extensive support networks.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Sorry, I don't have friends who need alcohol to have a good time. We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy.
> 
> ...


Seriously? My dh grew up in a near-teetotal household, and he loves his beer. He's technically a binge drinker (based on how many beer he'll have at one time), although it's never affected his responsibilities. My mom grew up in a completely tee-total house, and she drinks daily, although she didn't when I was growing up. I grew up in a home with an alcoholic father, who missed several famliy occasions, because he was at the bar (or showed up drunk for them), and I'm not a tee-totaler, but I generally have fewer than 15 drinks a year (wine with a special dinner, a nice cooler or cider a few times over the summer - stuff like that) and can't even remember the last time I had more than one drink on any given occasion. I, personally, have known a lot of alcoholics and problem drinkers. I can't think of one of them that came from a home where the parents drank moderately - even daily - and responsibly. They all, to the best of my recollection, came from homes where regular drunkenness (ie. plastered every weekend, and sometimes during the week, usually with pronounced behavioural changes) or tee-totaling was the norm.

Do you have anything to support such a condemnatory blanket statement?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Do you have anything to support such a condemnatory blanket statement?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/8516745.stm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Parents-Who-Drink-Will-Influence-Children-to-Do-Same&id=3897332

http://www.medicineonline.com/news/10/291/Alcoholism-Runs-in-the-Family.html


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

philomom-I have to ask if you even read the articles you linked?

Now of course two of the articles quote the same DCFS study and neither includes data on the participants, who conducted the study, indeed there is no info of any kind (I did a quick Google search and could not find it).

I would definitely wonder if they did the study on children and families in their system or on their radar. Those families are likely to have a higher level of disfunction since they are involved with DCFS.

Secondly no one is debating that alcoholism runs in families-it does and children of alcoholics DO indeed have a higher risk of developing a substance abuse problem. Except the study also found this interesting tidbit:

Quote:


> "One point worth making is that this knocks the idea of forbidden fruit on the head. One of the exceptions is that some children of heavy/problem drinking parents react against it, and drink little or nothing themselves," he said.
> 
> Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3897332


Finally, the study found that children copy their parents drinking behavior good or bad. So children who witness moderate and responsible levels of social drinking go on to be responsible consumers of alcohol.

And you contradict yourself in your own post.

Quote:


> We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy...*Also, if you drink.. your kids will.* ..


Your whole post is a head scratcher because you do drink-therefore your kids will. What exactly is your point other than to come across as holier than thou? Is your point that wine with dinner is ok because that is what YOU do, but a martini on the front porch isn't because that is what those bad parents down the block do?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'm really OK with my kids growing up to become social drinkers, so that issue isn't on my radar.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> 
> Your whole post is a head scratcher because you do drink-therefore your kids will. What exactly is your point other than to come across as holier than thou? Is your point that wine with dinner is ok because that is what YOU do, but a martini on the front porch isn't because that is what those bad parents down the block do?


Splitting a bottle of wine four ways with a meal is WAY different than the previous poster's several beers at a barbecue. I have alcoholics in my family and I want my kids to keep the alcohol on a tight lease in their adult lives. I don't think any of you should forget for a second that alcohol can ruin lives.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Splitting a bottle of wine four ways with a meal is WAY different than the previous poster's several beers at a barbecue. I have alcoholics in my family and I want my kids to keep the alcohol on a tight lease in their adult lives. I don't think any of you should forget for a second that alcohol can ruin lives.


Obviously you don't buy wine by the jug like some of us lol.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

To be entirely fair, there's kind of a lag time with alcohol consumption and effect. If you're drinking steadily, after the time you stop drinking for the night, there is still alcohol in your digestive tract and working its way into your bloodstream, so you're going to end up feeling more drunk than you did when you finished your last drink. This may or may not account for his behavior but I just wanted to point it out.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> But I just don't know why you wouldn't stop once you felt buzzed or drink more water.


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## Care Lee (Feb 12, 2009)

Some of the replies to this post seem rather extreme to me...

As I understand this-
He went out with his brother and had too much to drink. He let his kid watch tv. He had a hangover. He took a nap while his kid napped. Uncle hung out with he baby.

He has had too much to drink a few times over 4 years.

I can't believe people are reacting so harshly. Divorce? Really? I don't think this is a big deal. I don't think the kids were in danger. This is not his usual behavior. Certainly not ideal, but not such a huge deal that some seem to think it is.

You could have a conversation about it, and let him know that you are uncomfortable with
it.

For the record, I frequently drink a glass of wine after dinner. I will drink margaritas when I go out with my girlfriends. My dh drinks and brews his own beer. Our children know this, and they are not scarred for life. This does not make us irresponsible parents.

Also, I watch my own kids while I'm sick. I think most sahm do the same. My kids are also not in danger because they watch tv and eat instant oatmeal and bananas while I lay on the couch clutching a bucket.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

OP, have you talked to your DH yet?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Splitting a bottle of wine four ways with a meal is WAY different than the previous poster's several beers at a barbecue. I have alcoholics in my family and I want my kids to keep the alcohol on a tight lease in their adult lives. I don't think any of you should forget for a second that alcohol can ruin lives.


Who suggested that it can't? My father blew through is entire retirement income in about two years, starting before he'd even retired. Some of that was gambling, but most of it was drinking. My ex-FIL is a hardcore alcoholic, and I suspect he'll be dead within five years, if he lasts that long (he's 60). Several of my best friends were alcoholics, and their lives have been trainwrecks.

That has nothing to do with the gross oversimplification of stating "if you drink, your kids will" as if it's a law of nature.


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## wanderinblues (Aug 14, 2011)

wow! i am shocked by some of the responses here. divorce?? if i took that advice, i would have long ago lost an amazing man.

my DP is a winemaker by trade. he owns a wine making shop (where DSD frequently hangs out) has hundreds of bottles at the house and drinks every day. this does not bother me at all.

i have never been a big drinker, despite my parents drinking wine and beer in front of me (in moderation), sometimes letting me taste, and being allowed watered wine with family dinners since i was about 12.

i firmly believe that modelling responsible behavior regarding alcohol, and demonstrating that a moderate amount/social drinking is not taboo or mysterious will only benefit her later in life. drinking responsibly in front of kids in fine imo. they are going to discover the wonders of alcohol eventually; i would rather model than try to keep it in the dark (which we all know never works).

as for DPs drinking, he does get drunk fairly regularly but never around the kid. when we first met, there was some hung over parenting on both of our parts, but that is less than ideal for me so i have put a stop to it. he tends to not go too overboard when i am not drinking with him  i do not consider him to have a problem because his drinking does not negatively affect me or his DD. he is a sweetheart when hes drunk, never behaves recklessly or unsafely and is usually safe in bed with me before it gets too late. our communication on this subject and others is very open and if i was to have a problem, we would discuss it like adults. he is very respectful and concerned for my happiness.

my advice to the OP is to first acknowledge that going out with friends and letting loose once in a while is important to your hubby, even though you may not be able to relate (as i am not). try to maintain a respectful exchange where you are both treating each other like adults (as it stands, it seems like he is behaving rather child-like, and you are gearing up to take a parent-like role). what i would make clear to him is this: these situations are having a negative affect on his family and he is not being considerate. let him know that there is a way for him to go out and get drunk once in a while, but it needs to be on both of your terms. then (mutually) make plans for next time: he tells you in advance (how many days?), when should he be home, who will watch the kids, how will he get home, etc....


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## Beth DeRoos (Jul 27, 2011)

NO you are NOT over reacting. In fact its scary to think what would have happened if both your husband and his brother had been so hung over they didn't wake up at all. What would your 3 yr old done. What if there had been a fire or other emergency. If someone KNOWS they cannot handle drinking a couple drinks they should NOT be drinking. In fact there is NOTHING wrong with not drinking. Can people have fun without alcohol? I would suggest you have a back up plan, so that you can call someone and have them watch the kids. Am so very sorry this happened to you. Also think about ALL the good things about your husband, so that as you two work this out he feels as if someone cares and wants to help him not just tell him where he was wrong.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

This thread just really drives home the fact that so many people at MDC are SO extreme when it comes to what is "acceptable" and what isnt. Seriously, we arent JUST parents. Sometimes people like to have fun without playing with bubbles and keeping every single thing they do "kid friendly". Being hungover is the consequence of drinking too much, but it doesnt typically mean that someone is unable to watch their kids, still drunk, or "dangerous and irresponsible". To me its not much different than a 16 year old on the phone with her boyfriend while your kid watches tv, which happens almost everyday to tons and tons of kids. So what if a kid doesnt get enough attention three of four times in FOUR YEARS? So what if he or she has to watch tv while dad takes a nap with the other one? Some kids go to childcare places where they watch tv every.single.day. This is SO not worth the OP getting a divorce, trying to tell her DH that he has a substance abuse problem, or really even saying anything other than "Gee, I wish you wouldnt get so wasted when you know you have to watch the kids in the morning."


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## sren (Jun 20, 2005)

OP, apart from his responsibilities as a dad, I see three big red flags in your description of his drinking. He drank more than he intended to, he lied about/tried to cover up the amount that he drank, and he experiences a personality change after a couple of drinks. Alcoholism is not about how often someone drinks or even how much; it is about what happens when they drink-- it comes before relationships. Not to say that your DH is alcoholic. It is a progressive disease so if he is you are likely to be given more information in the future.


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

I assume that since you directly quoted my post, that you are addressing me.

I do not "need" alcohol to have a good time any more than people "need" birthday cake or candy bars. I enjoy it.

I have no problem with my children drinking when they are of age. I think that most observations suggest that when alcohol is taboo or forbidden in a household or a society, the chances of young people sneaking it and abusing it are greater. I also nowhere implicated that we indulge in "everyday drinking", nor did the original poster.

Finally, I believe that I stated that I felt that the OP's husband was in the wrong by being so hungover that he was unable to care for his very young children. My own children are adequately supervised. Always. It is a rather large inference on your part to suggest otherwise. I can't remember a single time when my children have suffered as a result of a hangover. It was the reaction to alcohol in general that I was surprised by. I was not condoning her husband's behaviour by any means. If you wish to be the best role model you can be, perhaps you might consider placing fewer harsh judgements on others.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Sorry, I don't have friends who need alcohol to have a good time. We might share a bottle of wine with a meal but no one gets tipsy.
> 
> ...


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## Alphaghetti (May 26, 2005)

I like how you completely misquoted me for the purposes of your own argument. 

I wrote in my post that I have "a few beers", and you turned that into my having "several beers". How can you see me drinking in my back yard? Creepy. Oh wait, you can't.


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## IwannaBanRN (May 27, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> *One of my friends who was in AA said the the definition of an alcoholic doesn't include how much a person drinks, but rather, the impact that their drinking has. It doesn't matter if someone only drinks once a year, if when they do, they are out of control and cause problems, then they have a drinking problem.*
> 
> ...


This is true for any addicted person. I didn't abuse drugs or alcohol for very long, but they were still abused and my homelife suffered from it. If the guy can't take care of the kids when he knew he had to, there is a problem. Failure to comply because of a current want (him wanting to go out, SAYING he wouldn't be trashed and then getting trashed) is a sign of an addiction problem.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sumada*
> 
> this is what guys do sometimes


Not all guys. My dh has never had more than a beer and a half around me or our kids the entire time I have known him (13 years). I know he drank more than he was a teenager and in college because he's told me the stories. I think he may have drank a bit more when he's been away from home for an extended period but he is usually the DD or the guy who takes care of the completely wasted buddy. while i would say that many do drink more than he, i don't think that most people who drink drink until they puke.


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## Beth DeRoos (Jul 27, 2011)

My Mother would have a drink some evenings after work, my Dad would have a drink a few times per month. No one sat around drinking beer, wine like we see today. It's rare I even have a small glass of champagne,said from a weeding, bris, christening etc. I am always on the go and aside from the fact I don't like the taste of wine, beer, hard liquor,

I would never ever have even a small glass of champagne and then drive. Husband wasn't a drinker, but was hit by a drunk driver, disabled and later died. It's not why I don't drink.

Bear in mind alcohol is high in sugar and that many people in AA from what I have read, stop drinking but then suck on candy, eat sweets to get the sugar rush alcohol gave them. And as with any diet full of sugars, this can create malnutrition issues, that have their own nasty sides.


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Care Lee*
> 
> Some of the replies to this post seem rather extreme to me...
> 
> ...


+1

I'm amazed at the extreme overreactions on this thread. Good grief; divorce your husband for being hungover? That's just crazy.


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## Sumada (Mar 7, 2008)

Wow! Sorry I didn't come back to this thread sooner. I didn't realize it had gained some momentum.

Just a quick update and more later: we talked, said he was fine watching the kids that day, was shocked that I said I would leave him if it happens again (or telling him not to come back here if he does that again) and everything has been fine since.

I think part of the issue is we used to get out a lot and he especially misses those times. And I'm not necessarily talking about drinking. So when he gets a chance to go out, he over does it. Maybe he doesn't know his limits anymore, when it comes to drinking.

I totally sympathize with those of you watching your kids when you are sick, but I think this is different b/c he had a choice to drink so much and chose to drink so much it made him sick.

I think I will be taking the advice about finding backup if he's going to go out on a night before he has to watch the kids. Or I should make him do that.


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

I'm having a glass of wine while reading this thread.


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