# Ultrasound today, they are talking induction UPDATE: NOW THEY WANT TO DO A C-SECTION



## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

I was due this past Saturday (so, 40w3d), I had my appointment with my midwife on Monday, No dilation, but cervix soft and about 60% effaced. I had the ultrasound today to look at fluid levels. My fluid level was a little high, but what concerned them was that my baby was measuring 9lbs11oz according to the ultrasound. I am only 5ft2, I was 7lbs and DH was 8lbs7oz at birth (although now he is 6ft3 and 225lbs!) I don't know how I could have grown such a large baby. I do know that the measurements can be quite off, and in my gut I feel that my baby is around eight and a half pounds.

My midwife wasn't around, so they talked to one of the doctors in the practice, and they said to go home tonight, and they would talk to the midwife and we would get a call tonight or tomorrow morning, and they might have us go in tomorrow night for an induction, if we haven't gone into labor by then.

So, in the meantime we just got back from a two mile walk, and of course there is sex (which we have been trying since are appointment last week, but come on, how many times a week can you have sex when you are 40 weeks pregnant!?). I called my doula (also my hypnobirthing teacher) for a pep talk and an update, and she suggested that tomorrow I might want to pull out the big guns and try castor oil. I also talked to a friend who was induced last year (cervadil, then cytotec, then pitocin) due to pre-E and she hypnobirthed just fine. So, I got some pep talks, but I could use some more. I plan to refuse cytotec if possible, that stuff just scares the crap out of me.

Any words of encouragement, anyone???


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

Unless there is some medical indication for an induction I would not even consider it before 42 weeks. Those end of pg ultrasounds are notoriously inaccurate. When I was pg with ds2, my 3rd child, I stopped going to visits after 38 weeks so I didn't even have to deal with the pressure. I delivered at 41w4d, just barely on the 4th day though he was born just before 2am.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I'd strongly suggest you not worry about it. Find something to do to keep your mind off it. Whatever it takes, gardening, reading a good mystery, scrubbing the ceilings, whatever.









Forget what the u/s said. They estimated my DD1 at 8.5 lbs the day before she was born weighing less than 5.5 lbs!! That was an entire THREE pounds off! Plus, i was measuring ahead my entire pregnancy. Refuse induction, forget the castor oil, it's nasty and do you really want to crap your brains out? Nothing will get labor started if your body is not ready, not sex, not castor oil, not even pitocin, and especially not cytotec. That stuff nearly killed my baby FWIW, and there is an FDA alert warning women against its use to induce labor! I would just not show up for their suggested induction appointment. Enjoy this last bit of time as a beautiful pregnant woman, and don't let their fears intimidate you or talk you into anything you do not feel is in your own best interest.









ETA - the only way I would ever consider induction would be if I were beyond 42 weeks, and nonstress/stress tests were showing that there was something wrong with the placenta or that baby was having difficulties, AND/or if I just had one of those gut feelings there was something terribly wrong (but then, I'd imagine it would be too late to attempt to induce). See, that's what I don't understand. If it were truly an emergency, then baby would need to be born ASAP, not go through all the stress and time it takes to induce labor, so why not just wait until your body does it on its own?


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## rozzie'sma (Jul 6, 2005)

Unless the babe is in trouble don't induce. My ultrasound placed DD at 9 1/2 pounds and she was 8 lbs 2 oz. i kept telling them she was an 8 pounder. Trust yourself not them.


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks! DH and I have been talking, and we are wondering if our midwife will even want an induction, because from talking to her it seems like she is pretty hands off on that unless there is a problem. We are hoping that this is why the doctor said to go home tonight, and someone will call us in the AM to talk about induction. The techs were pretty sure I was going to be induced, but they are used to working with doctors.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Ultrasounds are NOTORIOUSLY inaccurate for determining the baby's weight. I absolutely cannot believe that doctors are still pulling this crap! They're always wrong. Almost always. And even if your baby is ten pounds, what difference is another few days going to make? You can deliver a 9 lb 11 oz baby but not a 10 lb 1 oz baby? Bullcrap. You grew it, and unless you have been in some kind of bone-crushing accident or severaly deformed through illness it will fit through your pelvis, almost guaranteed. Deliver in a squat or some similar position to maximize the pelvic opening, and I would believe the 10-pound-baby line when I saw it with my own two eyes.

Don't worry, you'll be just fine! Hang in there!


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## MamaChel (Mar 28, 2003)

My DS1 was "expected" to weigh over 10 pounds, he was born 3 weeks later weighing a whopping 7 pounds, 6 ounces. I would not induce based on a u/s alone.


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## JanetF (Oct 31, 2004)

Just say no









You're not even postdates! Unless I was 43 weeks and unsure of my baby's health I wouldn't even discuss induction with anyone. The size of a baby cannot be accurately determined by u/s and is no reason to induce anyway! Your body will only grow a baby perfect for you to push out. I say go home, ignore everyone until you're in strong labour and then call whoever you have to, if you really want to...

Try these for more info.
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/biophysical.asp - why biophysical profiling is a crock.
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/pelvis.asp - why the idea of the large baby is a crock.
http://parenting.ivillage.com/pregna...,,8nbq,00.html - the ludicrous notion of inducing because of a large baby... (perceived large baby!)


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Personally I wouldn't induce because baby might be big. There needs to be a more compelling reason than that for me. Especially, like you already know, ultrasounds that guesstimate weights are usually way off. They did one the day before son was born that said he was 9lbs, he was 8lbs 2oz. So much for that. I know it's hard to trust your instincts when the "professionals" start trying the scare tactics. Do you have diabetes or some other condition that would lead you to grow an unusually large baby? Because other than that your body is capable of birthing a large baby, as long as you're allowed to keep moving and changing positions and all that other good stuff. I'm sure you already know this but being induced does increase your risk of c-sect quite a bit. And you're right, there is no way in heck I'd touch Cytotec with a 20 foot pole. Especially considering that the FDA and the drug's manufacturer have both issued warnings about it's use in labor. Have you read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin? I know a lot of people that really gained a lot of confidence and strength from it, me included. I wish you all the best luck in the world!!!!!


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I agree with everything everyone else has said. Just say no. I will repeat my mantra to you like I have to many women here before: FAT IS SQUISHY. Babies are not heavy because they enormous skeletons, newborns weigh more or less based on bodyfat. And fat is squishy. You will not have a hard time delivering a baby because they are chubby. You can have a giant head and broad shoulders on a six pound baby, or you can have an average-sized head on a ten pound baby. (In fact, my sister recently had a 9lb 9oz boy with a 13.25" head -- that slightly below average.)

Also, your height has nothing to do with your pelvic outlet. And there is no way of predicting how much room your body can make if you are relaxed, have an unaugmented labor where your tissues and ligaments have the chance to move apart, and if you birth in the position of your choice without directed pushing.

You CAN do this. You can be strong enough to refuse induction. You know in your heart it's not what's best for you or the baby. And keep telling yourself: FAT IS SQUISHY.


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## BensMom (May 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs Dimples*
And even if your baby is ten pounds, what difference is another few days going to make? You can deliver a 9 lb 11 oz baby but not a 10 lb 1 oz baby? Bullcrap.

I agree with this! Your baby will only gain a few ounces a week this late in the game. So why try to force your body to do something it is not ready for (and seriously risk a Csection that they will blame on a "big baby") when you can wait for your body to start doing what it needs to do on its own?

Don't induce for this reason alone.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

Just say no. I will repeat my mantra to you like I have to many women here before: FAT IS SQUISHY
I agree with the others and this is an excellent way to put it.


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

No No No! My ds "weighed" in at around 6lbs+ via an u/s...induction follwed 2 days later - he was born via C-SECTION at just under 9lbs - They were nearly THREE POUNDS OFF! - plus I ended up with a c--section that could have been 100% prevented. They blamed it on the fact that he was "big" - but my dd#3 was born intervention free and her head was an inch bigger and she weighed more...soooo....







:

As for your size...my aunt gave birth to twin girls - *each* weighing in at 9 pounds - she is five feet tall - it was a 100% drug free, vaginal birth! whoo-hoo!


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## crunchyconmomma (Feb 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn*
we are wondering if our midwife will even want an induction, because from talking to her it seems like she is pretty hands off on that unless there is a problem. We are hoping that this is why the doctor said to go home tonight, and someone will call us in the AM to talk about induction. The techs were pretty sure I was going to be induced, but they are used to working with doctors.

okay...whose birth is it? do not turn YOUR birth over...do it yourself in your own (and your baby's own) way and time.

and about the hypnobirthing...try the mind sweep trick (i did hypno classes, read books not associated with the class, found this in one and did this myself and liked it alot)
get into that place you learned about in hypnobirthing and then
imagine the worst scenario, colorful, as if it were a movie scene in your mind. for me this was getting all out of control and letting pain and craziness preside and being mean and ugly to DH and my MW. and get detailed with it. i imagined what my hair and forhead would look like and how i would sound and how i would feel. and i made the lighting in the room seem unpleasant to give more of the feel of "wrong." then in the lower corner (like picture in picture TV) imagine the best scenario, as detailed as you can be. for me this was remaining calm and centered and having a blissful, spiritual birth and keeping focus. i was graceful and the baby slipped out into my arms. the lighting was soft and we all looked like angels from a painting. then you "swish" the bad image and replace it with the good image. you do it over and over, making the good image bright and vivid and large as life. eventually, the bad image is hard to conjure and the good one becomes your reality.

this is a pretty simplistic way, but you can get the idea. it's really just a specific technique for "thinking positively."

it's also pretty important at this point to get centered in your mind with the hypnosis and talk to the baby and tell yourself and baby about how the birth is going to happen - naturally, in it's own time, yadda, yadda.

good luck! can't wait to hear the story!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Just say no. That's exactly why I didn't do ultrasounds at all... you don't get any useful info, just scare tactics.

-Angela


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

Ultrasounds are usually way way off for body weight - by an average of 2 pounds. 2 pounds is a lot, you know?


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

My mom is 5'4", and I was 10 lbs 2 oz.

My VBAC baby was 9 lbs 4 oz.

*Someone* has to give birth to babies who are heavier than average. We shouldn't be penalized for it.

I agree with the "fat is squishy" sentiment. Z had an average sized head, even though he was "heavy" and long.

It sounds like everything else is healthy, and that perhaps (*perhaps*) your baby will be tall.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

http://www.birthlove.com

It is a paid membership site, but they have a great 10-month mama area, with a few articles. Some very good information on why it's normal to go over 40 weeks, what can be done to minimize the possibility of problems, why you should definitely NOT use castor oil, etc.


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## Full Heart (Apr 27, 2004)

How big do _you_ think the baby is? Moms have a pretty good guess I think. Not that I think size is a reason to induce.

A great trick I learned from Spiritual Midwifery was to keep telling yourself, "I'm going to get huge." With #5 I was expecting a big baby (he just ended up being really tall with a huge head lol) but I was reapting that mantra in labor. When it came time to push he flew out of me. Pushing took less than a min, all in 1 contraction from zero station to out. He had a 14 1/2 in head too.

Michelle


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## Mallory (Jan 2, 2002)

I agree that fat is squishy. My boys were 7'12 and 9'9, but their heads were about the same size. My midwife also thought the 9'9 baby was only going to be 5 or 6 pounds









I mean really how much bigger are the head and shoulders going to grow in a week or so?


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

I talked to my midwife this morning and I am in total shock. So, not only are they concerned because the baby is big, she has a large chest circumfrence, and there is too much amniotic fluid. Also, the baby hasn't dropped into my pelvis yet (one of the things they use an indication of a big baby) My midwife told me that she recommends a scheduled c-section. She told me the office would call me back to schedule the c-section. I asked my midwife how often these things are off, and she told me that they can be off by a pound. She said that if I tried to go vaginally, she would not deliver me. I got off the phone and started bawling.
I talked to my doula and a friend who hypnobirthed last year. My friend suggested going in for a consultation with one of the doctors, so I can feel better about this.
The midwife just called, DH talked to her and told her that we want to talk to a doctor. She said to call the office, the one on duty today is notorius for being a c-section pusher, so we are going to go in tomorrow and talk to the doctor who is in then.

I just don't know what to do, this seems totally ridiculous that this perfectly healthy pregnancy has turned into this (I passed my one hour glucose test, could I have had developed gestational diabetes in the meantime?). I am also blaming myself for not eating healthier and eating too much ice cream. I am scared, I feel helpless, I don't know what to do. I want to say no to the c-section, but if something does happen to the baby, I would never forgive myself. If I say yes to a c-section and this baby comes out a normal size, I will be so livid.


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

Can they really accurately assess chest circumference via u/s?

I'm a cautious person; I don't like to take chances. But I really feel like what you've been told doesn't make a lot of sense and that they're trying to scare you into this, and that's just not fair.

Can you just take the day to relax, try not to think about it, and meet with the more reasonable dr. tomorrow? And hey--this is not about you doing something wrong. Not at all.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

I see absolutely no reason to have a c/s. My mom, a CNM, says have your baby at home. Your midwife & doc are avoiding liability and it's assinine. She feels that you will be sabotaged if you try to deliver vaginally with these people. Try to transfer if you can to anyone else that will allow you to labor. Otherwise, stay at home as long as possible. Go to the hospital at the last possible moment. Like when the baby's crowning.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Deep breaths, deep cleansing breaths.

Your body knows how to grow and birth a healthy baby, listen to it.


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## aprilushka (Aug 28, 2005)

A large baby is not a medical indication for a c-section, especially without a trial of labor. That's assuming they even know it's large, which they don't, since ultrasounds in 3rd trimester are plus or minus 2 pounds of the estimate typically. I can't even count how many women have come to ICAN with huge regrets and bitterness having been sectioned for "large" babies that turned out to be 2 or more pounds less than estimate. I would read empowering birth stories of mamas who gave birth to 9lb + babies-- lots of women give birth to 10lb + babies even with no problem, even after they were sectioned for a smaller baby.

BTW, it's pretty unlikely that anything you ate has anything to do with the size.

This practice sounds like poison to me. I would really try hard to find another care provider. Get on every list you can and try to get a good recommendation for your area.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

From what I have read before, too much fluid is a problem which can cause pre-term delivery and that obviously hasn't happened!

http://www.umm.edu/pregnancy/special...ydramnios.html

I don't know the 'legal' position over where you are but over here in the UK they can make appointments for induction and ceasarian but you are not obliged to show up or sign for consent if you don't want to.

Do all the walking you can, talk your baby down, eat food that you fancy and go to the movies or somewhere else that you won't be going to for a while.

Then
Hide out at home, dance a round all afternoon and keep warm, snuggly and love your belly a bit longer.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

All I'm going to say is, you can do this. A baby who has not yet dropped is a baby who is not yet ready to be born- if they try an induction, you WILL end up with a section, especially with a first.
My firstborn weighed in at 14 lbs, was born vaginally at home with the aid of a good midwife and as near as dammit fell down the toilet







He did, admittedly, have a relatively small head (50th centile- for length and weight he was off the scale) Fat is squishy, as has already been pointed out, but IME a long baby will take longer to engage fully in the pelvis- this is based entirely on anecodotal evidence, because as far as I know there's been no studies done BUT the later babies were the long ones.
So, the question is, how stroppy are you prepared to be? Are you going to fight with this midwife, or are you going to go looking for a replacement?
OH- fwiw, I don't believe in the existence of gestational diabetes, at least not in terms of producing large babies (if, otoh, you had any symptoms, that would be different). If some stupid doctor trying to defraud insurance companies by ordering unnecessary tests chooses to think that a GTT is a good idea, let him- there's a reason why most countries with state-funded healthcare don't bother with them (i.e. they're inaccurate.) I have big babies because I have a big bottom and child-bearing hips (i.e. a fat ass), inherited from generations of down-to-earth, baby-birthing, hard-working women who didn't have time for all this namby-pamby nonsense with ultrasounds and medicine because they had lives to lead and jobs to do, unlike dumb quacks. Oh, and I'm only 5 ft 3.
I'm really sorry this is happening to you, but somewhat angry on your behalf.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, and when your normal sized baby is delivered vaginally (preferably by someone else) find out if you can sue them for breach of contract. Their excuses are pitiful.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

First, it appears that you actually have a MEDwife instead of a midwife performing your care. I had the first with DD (too bad you can't identify them until it is almost too late).

Secondly, error w/weight on a u/s is not measured by lbs but by percentage of body weight. So saying that u/s is off by 1 lb doesn't even make sense.

Thirdly, my sister had a planned c-section on 9/9 and gave birth to a 7lb 3 ounce, 19", 14" head (no engagement so actually would have been closer to 13" after l&d) baby girl. A full 9 days earlier the baby had been estimated to be at least 10 lbs with close to a 15" head. The baby was breech but the doctor decided to not even try to turn her because she was just too big to turn and probably wouldn't anyway--- since she was SOOO huge and stuffed in there







:

Not as extreme (but possibly more damaging) my niece was born by scheduled c-section at 36 weeks. Estimated weight of 7lb 15oz lbs on Friday. On Monday she was born weighing 6lb 12oz. That meant after weight loss they had a 6lb baby on their hands instead of the 8lb one they were expecting.

Personally, I would not schedule a c-section. At the very least, I believe babys should get to come when they are ready--- not when it makes a doctors vacation easier or gives them an easy three day weekend. Labor has many positive effects on the baby I would not easily pass over.

I would also take the time and look into the possible complications and risks of a c-section. You mention not being able to forgive yourself if the baby was actually harmed. Do your homework. Do you really think that *statistically* the baby would be better off w/a planned c-section? Do you think you would be? (at this point you would be almost guaranteed no vaginal births).

Lastly, if ice cream intake determined baby size I would have had 15lb monsters instead of the 7.14 & 8.2 perfectly sized babies I got. During DDs pregnancy I craved pie and ate it at every opportunity I had. I always eat a lot of ice cream (seriously, I have been known to eat two pints of Ben & Jerry's in a single sitting).

Good luck with your decision.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

And read Pamamidwife's post at the bottom of page 1 here which is about babies 'getting even bigger by next week.'

Darn docs where do they get off? Having a caesarian is the least best option.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've had one scheduled c-section without labour, and two sections with labour (one "emergency" and one scheduled, but I went into labour the night before). I would never again, under any circumstances (well, obviously if my baby was in serious distress), agree to a section without going into labour first. It was an awful experience for me.

I can't tell you what to do, and the "what if I don't have the section and something happens to my baby?" issue is terrifying. But, the doctors really do use scare tactics. They've got you in a position now where they want you to agree to a scheduled section or induction right up front. They _know_ that once you've agreed, even if only verbally, you're much less likely to back out later or not show up.

_Don't_ let them schedule a section for you until/unless you're sure you're okay with it. I've done it twice now, and I've never regretted anything more in my life!!

Oh - and these reasons sound like bs - my dd was 10lb., 2oz, and her head was, if anything, _smaller_ than average!!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

RUN. Seriously. Find a homebirth midwife or go unassisted. These are crazy people. You will end up with a section if you stay with them and it is for no good reason.

-Angela


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

I was in your shoes about 18 months ago...41 weeks NST(who are they kidding non stress test is a stress test to me)

I am 4 11 and weigh 100 lbs when not pregnant.
I had a U/S where they determined my son was 9 8 oz at 41 weeks and that there was no way I could ever deliver him vaginally...so recomended a C-section without delay..as well my son was high quite high at this point.
I was also told they are never ever off by more then half a pound...hmm.

They pulled the Shoulder getting stuck routinue which I know no is a bunch of hogwash.

I declined the c-section as there was no reason for it but they scared the crap out of me as a first time Mother..I went straight away to my wonderful midwives who assured me yes they felt baby was bigger then the avg. size baby but I could do it.

Time did run out when my water broke several days later and after a 24 hour wait for labour to start I did have to head to the hospital for an induction
A whole 5 days after the est. of my 9 8oz...he was born vaginally(with a little help from a vaccum but that was due to my not being allowed to labour in the proper position as I had had a epidural) at 8 10oz after 2 and half hours of pushing.

Medically I had no reason to have a C-section so why would I accept one..I am lucky that my induction was sucessful and did not end in one as their were whispers to that effect towards the end..DF said that made me push harder then ever.

They later told me that it was wrong becaus his femur lenght was long so they take all the meaurements and take the weight from a standard model based on that..well I guess I did not fit in with their standard model. :LOL

Good luck..and I hope you are in labour right this minute...


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Again, you've gotten great advice from everyone here. Here's what I would do: Get a new doctor or midwife IMMEDIATELY. As in, this very second. Do not show up for any scheduled induction or cesarean appointments with old providers. Go into labor naturally, call your doula when you need her to come over, and go to the hospital when the baby is about to be born.

Another option would be to find a homebirth midwife who has some sense in her head and have the baby at home.

Do not listen to the "your baby will die" arguments that medical professionals are going to pull. Your baby is more likely to die after having a C-section. YOU are more likely to die after having a C-section.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

I measured small with dd#1, gained about 18 lbs total and was told that she would be 5-6 lbs. She was born at 42 weeks after a terrible induction weighing 8lbs.1oz. I have to agree with everyone else who said that trying to guess the size of a baby based on measurements and u/s is quite frequently wrong. First babies are also frequently "late." I would never be induced again and certainly would not schedule a c-section based upon their belief that your baby is large. My cousin was told the same thing, went ahead w/ the c-section, and delivered a 6 lb. baby boy. I would have been furious!

With dd#2, I was determined to avoid another induction due to being post-date, so I was all ready with herbal remedies in hand (and a different midwife!). I found Susun Weed's book, The Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year to be very helpful. With dd#2, my water broke, but contractions didn't begin and I wanted to avoid all of the interventions that they were threatening if I didn't start labor w/in a certain time frame of my water breaking, so I tried some of her suggestions for herbal contraction inducers (cohosh, I believe). It worked wonderfully and she was born w/ no interventions at all weighing 8lbs.3ozs.

I would absolutely refuse a c-section without a good trial of labor first. Don't go into the hospital until you are well into labor. If you show up too soon, they will determine that you are taking too long to progress, give you pitocin and then say that it isn't working fast enough and push for the c-section anyway. Labor at home when your body is ready to -- the hospital is only for the end of labor and the delivery IMO (unless you are delivering at home in which case hospitals are totally irrelevant).


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Something else to keep in mind is that it is often the stress of the pressure put on when "overdue" that can prevent a woman from going in to labour. It puts the body in a "fight or flight" situation, which is definitely something that can stop any mammal from birthing.
I don't know how you can prevent the stress from getting to you, though. It's not like you can say "stress, leave me alone" and it disappears.
I had a friend who was also overdue and threats of induction were looming, even though she was adamantly opposed. She read the info on the birthlove site and it cemented her stance NOT to be induced and actually relaxed her quite a bit. The next day she went into labour. There may or may not be a connection, but it's certainly possible that there was.
I don't know what to say about the threats of C-section. I don't know what I would do in your shoes, because while I tend to follow my instincts, sometimes fear can mask those instincts. I can say that it's not helping your stress to have to worry about it.
I strongly agree with Christa about a trial of labour being important. At the very least, you may want to push for that.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

It's the end of the month. I have heard that the hospital around here with the highest level NICU has a certain quota to fill every month, and if you go in towards the end of the month your baby is more likely to be NICU'd so they can make their $$$$$. Perhaps your hospital has a similar thing with sections. If they don't do a certain number every month, they can't keep the cash flow where they want it. Possible?


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annakiss*
I see absolutely no reason to have a c/s. My mom, a CNM, says have your baby at home. Your midwife & doc are avoiding liability and it's assinine. She feels that you will be sabotaged if you try to deliver vaginally with these people. Try to transfer if you can to anyone else that will allow you to labor. Otherwise, stay at home as long as possible. Go to the hospital at the last possible moment. Like when the baby's crowning.









:

My SIL got railroaded into an elective c/sec for her u/s estimated 'macrosomic' 9 lbs.+ baby that turned out to be 6 lbs 12 oz. You see this all the time in L&D, yet the OB's still insist that the u/s can 'only' be off by a pound. At least in Europe they will own up to it being +/- a kilo (2.2 lbs) at term. Bleh.


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

Perhaps - just to help you see things more clearly you set up an appt. with a midwife - one that is seperate from any Dr.s ASAP - let her examine you - let her talk to you....Ask her questions....You might just feel like swithcing at this late date would be worth it for you and your family - at the very least you will be more informed. She could serve as your 2nd opinion - which you absolutely should get.

C-sections are MAJOR - they are not to be fooled around with. After having had one - I thought with my next 2 - If I ever did have another c-section I would never forgive myself if something happened. to my baby - not the other way around

Quote:

A cesarean section poses documented medical risks to the mother's health, including infections, hemorrhage, transfusion, injury to other organs, anesthesia complications, psychological complications, and a maternal mortality two to four times greater than that for a vaginal birth
and here:

Quote:

An elective cesarean section increases the risk to the infant of premature birth and respiratory distress syndrome, both of which are associated with multiple complications, intensive care and burdensome financial costs. Even mature babies, the absences of labor increases the risk of breathing problems and other complications.
(these all came from Childbirth.org)


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## starbarrett (Jun 16, 2004)

Gosh, I'm so sorry. I know exactly how stressed out you are 'cause I went through this at 36 weeks. I had too much amniotic fluid, baby is big, and he wasn't engaging and my hands-off midwife started mentioning the dreaded c word. After bawling, I flew into action and here is what helped:

The problem with high fluid and a baby that isn't engaged is that they are afraid of baby turning breech in labor. It seems breech these days equals c-section. So two things have to happen-- you have to lower your fluid and make baby engage. Then they'll stop talking c-section. And you may have the time.

Lower fluid level:
* cut all sugar immediately. I think you have the same hunch I had about the gestational diabetes link and the high fluid and big baby syndrome. I passed my test too, but I still think my diet may have gotten me into this mess. I cut sugar out immediately, as well as simple sugars like white flour and white rice. Balance all carbs with protein and healthy oils at each meal and snack. This will lower the glycemic effect of the carbs. you can do this, it's only for a couple weeks.

* drink pregnancy tea-- equal parts alfalfa, oat straw, nettles, and red rasberry leaf. I read of a woman that "cured" her GD by drinking red rasberry leaf consistantly.

I did these two things, and my fluid levels dropped within a week. I was amazed at how fast it worked considering nutritional changes usually take months and years before you see results.

Engage baby:
There's a great site spinningbaby.com that has great exercises for getting baby in the correct birth position. I think they may help for getting baby lower and engaged as well. I personally did it with yoga-- the standing poses with the open legs really did the trick. As does squating.

There's really nothing you can do about the size of the baby (if it really is that big). But if you can lower your fluid and get baby to engage, then your midwife will no longer have a good reason to push you into interventions. You may have to find another midwife, though, if she is unwilling to wait a bit to see if you can change your circumstances. My midwife was completely dumbfounded that I was able to lower my fluid levels. She said she'd never seen it before, and I honestly believe her 'cause I couldn't find anything on it online or even on MDC.

Good-luck, mama. You'll be fine! please keep us updated.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annakiss*
I see absolutely no reason to have a c/s. My mom, a CNM, says have your baby at home. Your midwife & doc are avoiding liability and it's assinine. She feels that you will be sabotaged if you try to deliver vaginally with these people. Try to transfer if you can to anyone else that will allow you to labor. Otherwise, stay at home as long as possible. Go to the hospital at the last possible moment. Like when the baby's crowning.

Totally right.

A c-section is silly, there is no real positive 100% way to be sure of anything until you go to deliver. Period.

I cannot count how many tiems I have heard this line of BS on that Birth Stories show - only to see too big to birth C-Section babies delivered at 7 pounds. Ya, some big baby.

http://www.scienceblog.com/community.../20022197.html

As far as baby not dropping, in some cases, babies don't drop until right before a mother goes into labor.

Quote:

The study, featured in the September 2002 issue of the Journal of Reproductive Medicine, examined 244 nonhypertensive, nondiabetic Caucasian women who delivered full-term, singleton babies at Duke University Medical Center between August 1998 and August 2000. Women were excluded if they delivered prematurely, smoked cigarettes during pregnancy or had medical complications

Characteristics used to estimate fetal birth weight included thegestational age at delivery, maternal height, maternal weight, third-trimester weight gain rate, number of priorchildren and fetal sex. Using these six variables, the researchers could predict birth weight within an average of plus or minus 8.1 percent of actual birth weight. Ultrasound accuracy rates are typically not as good, while abdominal palpitation rates can differ as much as plus or minus 10.3 percent from the actual birth weight, said the researchers.

Another link regarding accuracy of ultrasounds determining weight of baby:

http://forums.obgyn.net/pregnancy-bi...0204/2617.html

Quote:

Usually give or take 10-15% but wider variability the later in pregnancy you do this.

Dr. Harvey S. Marchbein, M.D


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

This must be so tough on you, Mama!

I truly believe that in this circumstance I would refuse induction for awhile longer and go at the very last minute to the hospital (maybe even a different hospital than my practitioner used, and feed them some line about "we were out doing X, and this just happened soooo fast!") By the time they got your records, your baby would be in your arms. I think that's what I would do, but I'd be scared as hell while I was doing it. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

I am SO sorry you are being put through this!







Is your baby showing *any* signs of distress? I just cannot believe that a midwife is actually recommending a section for s supposedly "big" baby that is perfectly healthy. You are NOT overdue yet! First time babies are usually "late" if they are given the chance to be, and lots of babies don't engage until labor! What the hell is the problem? If you can't get this current practice on the ball (which it sounds like will be impossible - you don't need anyone to "let you try" to labor - you need someone who believes in you and is confident in your abilities as a birthing woman) then you need to find someone else, which I sincerely hope is possible where you are. I know not everyone has access to lots of different practicioners in their area. I hope you are able to find someone who is trustworthy and will give you and your baby a shot at a normal birth, which I truly believe you can have with no problem.

Please keep us posted, I am just so angry for you. No one should have to go through this. First do no harm my ASS.







:


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

We have refused to schedule a c-section without talking to a doctor first. DH had to schedule the meeting (I was too upset) and it is amazing how difficult it was, they apparently expect me to schedule major abdominal surgery with only a phone consultation. We are coming up with a list of questions to ask him. Including where can we go for a second opinion. I am frustrated because I feel trapped by my HMO, I wouldn't even know where to begin to find another place, and I doubt they cover homebirth midwives. Also, DH was very against a homebirth, although after this wonderful interaction with the medical community he might feel different.

My doula is talking to a homebirth midwife that she knows to see what she thinks of the situation.

My friend who is a PA also thinks this is absurd, so it feels good to hear her opinion.

I find it bizarre that my baby would even turn breech now (as a poster suggested could be their concern), she has been head down for the past 10 weeks for pete's sake.

We spent the afternoon at the mall and went to a movie and now I am going to work on my hypnobirthing relaxation techniques, drink pregnancy tea, and hope that this baby goes into labor on her own. I will try some of the other suggestions as well.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

I very much doubt that at this point breech is the concern. The concern is big baby = shoulder dystocia, which shouldn't be a problem if you're not pushing on your back. Like everyone said, end-of-pregnancy u/s are notoriously inaccurate. Your lots of fluid shouldn't be a major issue. You're going to have this baby within the next 2 weeks certainly, so unless the baby starts becoming distressed, I'd just wait it out. Don't go for either the induction or the c/s. Go for a natural birth, listen to your body, move around and do what feels right during your labor.

You can do this. Don't let them practice their fears on you. If you go much longer, get a non-stress test, count kicks when you go to bed - it should help ease your mind that your baby is well. Have you looked at spinningbabies? Try to sit in positions that aid in a baby ripe for labor as opposed to those that lead to posterior babes. Anything to aid a shorter, c/s free birth is good.


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

How horrible that they're trying to throw all this on you now when you're so emotionally and physically exhausted anyway.

Unless there are real signs that your baby is in distress, DO NOT induce and for God's sake, DO NOT schedule a c-section.

As difficult and frustrating as it may be, finding a different provider RIGHT NOW may be a good thing. It sounds like the practice you are with has you pegged for a c/s and will try everything they can to get you to agree.

Read some positive stories. There are LOTS here on mothering.

If you can, find a homebirth midwife ASAP and have a homebirth. You said your DH doesn't want that...but at this point what is more important? A healthy birth and avoiding abdominal surgery or your DH's feelings?

Please keep us updated. It sounds like you do know what you want and are confident. Don't let the practice bully you into something you don't want, especially if there's no reason.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

s

From my understanding most full term babies have a head that is between 13 and 15 inches. It doesn't matter what the baby weights really. You could have a 6 pound baby with a 14 3/4 head or a 10 pound baby with a 14 inch one. So really looking at the weight of a baby says nothing about how easily it will come out.

You can NOT let me say it again ....you can NOT tell a woman by looking at her how big of a baby is "too big" for her. some tiny ladies birth 10 pounds with a little bit of pushing. SOme larger ladies have to work hard to get out a 7 pounder. You just can't tell. And well it looks like the dr and midwife are telling you. You do not know how much a pelvis will open up or how much the skin will stretch. Putting a weight limit on a baby based on sometihng that is KNOWN to be off it just silly. It makes me want to









I think you should talk to homebirth midwives. Because you are due anyday you might not have to pay full price. She also might work something out with you (payment plans, barter etc) Forget the HMO I am sure they won't pay for a homebirth but you paying $1,000 -$2,000 for a healthy birth is worth everything. People take out loans for things like trips, TVs, cars, etc. Having a healthy baby and a safe birth is far more important than a vacation or a big screan TV.

I really believe that if you do go into labor that this dr. and midwife will not treat you the way you deserve. Medical people HATE it when you say "NO" to their advice. I don't wnat them to take it out on you and your birth.

once again







s


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn*
We have refused to schedule a c-section without talking to a doctor first. DH had to schedule the meeting (I was too upset) and it is amazing how difficult it was, they apparently expect me to schedule major abdominal surgery with only a phone consultation. We are coming up with a list of questions to ask him. Including where can we go for a second opinion. I am frustrated because I feel trapped by my HMO, I wouldn't even know where to begin to find another place, and I doubt they cover homebirth midwives. Also, DH was very against a homebirth, although after this wonderful interaction with the medical community he might feel different.

My doula is talking to a homebirth midwife that she knows to see what she thinks of the situation.












Okay- do NOT let them bully you into anything. You can always refuse ANYTHING no matter what they try to tell you otherwise. You're in FL- they have pretty good laws so far as requiring insurance to cover midwives- post on the finding your tribes forum and see if anyone knows a homebirth midwife near you who would speak with you who might take your insurance.

They can NOT make you have a section OR an induction. You can say no. They are not making any sense. It is absurd to schedule a section for a baby that's "too big"

Hang in there.

-Angela


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## chrissy (Jun 5, 2002)

mama!!

i would NOT have a c-section. i am sorry that they are putting all this on you at the last minute. this is why the stinkin medical establishment has no place in normal birth- because they have no clue that birth is normal.

i fell for this kind of junk science when i was due with my 1st. the u/s (at 40 weeks) suggested that he would be "too big." that u/s ended up being wrong- almost 2 whole pounds wrong. turned out he was much BIGGER than they thought and he was born vaginally. the sOBs said things to the tune of "if we had known he was going to be THAT big, we'd never have let you deliver him vaginally."







: and "don't worry, next time we won't let you go that long[meaning til 40 weeks].

to make an already long story shorter, the induction totally sucked because he was NOT ready to be born. my labor was hellish and he had a small bit of trouble early on.

don't let their "birth is scary and dangerous" attitude bring you down mama. it is just not true. your body is growing the perfect sized baby for you. you can do it mama! i am so sorry you are having to deal with all this right now.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annakiss*
The concern is big baby = shoulder dystocia, which shouldn't be a problem if you're not pushing on your back.

Most hospitals - this is how they make you push. - flat on your back.


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## aguacates (Sep 17, 2003)

First of all,







s mama.

Second of all, just a little btdt story. I am 5'2". My dd (first born) was 9lbs14oz. She did not drop until I was in labor. The day before I had her, people were telling me I had wks to go, because she hadn't dropped yet. I had an easy six hour labor, pushed for an hour, and she came out with a 14.5 inch head and her arm above her head. I pushed her out fine. I was convinced I was having a 7 lb baby. Dh and I were both 7 lbs. Your body will do fine. Try to ignore scare tactics, and listen to your inner voice. I am sorry that you have to go through this right now.


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

sending you lots of hugs, mama... wish you weren't having to deal with this as you are preparing to meet your babe face to face for the first time...

i, too, would consider a homebirth since it is unlikely you will feel completely safe enough if you go to a hospital. ask your doula for referrals, and at least meet with one or two homebirth midwives to see if you click with them.

if you do choose to continue your care with this group of care providers, be sure to request a nurse at the hospital that is supportive of natural childbirth and laboring without medication. it sounds like you have a wonderful doula who may help you labor as long as possible at home before heading into the hospital.

wishing you a peaceful end of pregnancy and a safe and beautiful birth...

warmly,
claudia


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## nadine (Oct 22, 2004)

deleted


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

It is midnight, and I can't sleep. I was hoping she might decide to come out on her own, and I had a couple of contractions, but nothing yet.

Family is being irritating. DH's grandmother called yelling at him telling him that we need to go get a c-section right away (gee, if it was such an emergency, why did they send us home overnight after the U/S to be called in the morning, and in the morning I actually had to call the midwife to find out what was going on) and that he needed to watch the baby move all night long to make sure she was ok. She has shown no signs of distress, we passed the non-stress test just fine, she moves all the time.
A family friend of theirs put off a c-section however for two weeks and ended up with a dead baby due to I believe the umbilical cord tightening around the neck, so I see why she is reacting this way. It seems like all of our family just thinks we should do what the doctor says, no matter what.

DH might even be wavering, he told me that what is most important is a healthy baby, not how she gets here. I reminded him that he wasn't the one facing major surgery and he backed off.

Well, I better try to sleep again.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn*
DH might even be wavering, he told me that what is most important is a healthy baby, not how she gets here. I reminded him that he wasn't the one facing major surgery and he backed off.

Well, I better try to sleep again.

Oy. Big hugs to you







.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Don't let anyone pressure you. They don't know what they're talking about.

-Angela


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## chrissy (Jun 5, 2002)

oh mama, it is so totally absolutely unfair that you are having to deal with all of this right now. it makes me so angry that they are using all these scare tactics with you. rub your belly and talk to your baby and she will tell you what to do.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

mama, it's really ultimately up to you, but you need to do what is right for you and your baby and not let people pressure you into doing something that is statistically much more dangerous for you both. You do not have medical cause for a c/s. More









Good luck.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

:


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

hotmamacita has the right idea.








:







:







:


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

How about getting proactive - have you researched Evening Primrose Oil, perhaps some of the diff labor prepping herbs - I know there are many mamas here that can offer that sort of advice up.

Did you figure out what your Bishop Score was? If it was favorable you might want (I know I mentioned it before) castor oil. It's cheap - if you mix it in something frozen in the blender you really can't taste it. If you take 1 oz- at best, you'll go into labor - at worst - you'll go to the bathroom (but at this late stage in a pg - thats not such a bad thing!







) I actually took 1 oz on 2 seperate occasions about 5 days apart. 1st time labor started and stopped after 3 hours - next day midwife checked me and I was at 5cm. The next time, I again took an oz and she was born later that same day!

I'm just thinking if we can get you into labor before they can get their hands on you - there won't be any "decision" to be made!

(I don't know...what do you think mamas??)


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## LadyMarmalade (May 22, 2005)

Good luck, mama.

I've got two friends of similar build - they're both short and petite, and they both gave birth to 11 pound babies. One was in labour for 24 hours and ended up having a rotten delivery ... the other had a 30 minute labour and the baby slipped out easily. They can't predict your labour/birth based on your body.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Lots and lots of good advice here, and I see you and your DH and doula are working hard to be sure your wishes are honored...good luck!

You will not be pregnant forever, keep us posted. Hope everything goes well and goes your way...

Take care of yourselves, you deserve it! You are going to make a fine family.

G-d Bless







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

* Chance of a baby dying after some degree of shoulder dystocia: 1 in 24,390.
* Chance of a baby dying where shoulder dystocia was the probable cause: 1
in 39,024.
(based on 1994/95 UK figures.)
I'm doing my research atm because shoulder dystocia is one of my midwives pet hates and worries, and I had a 14lber (born at home. I'm 5 ft 3. That said, a 37 week ultrasound didn't pick up his size, and neither did any of the midwives or consultants who saw me.)
I had a very positive castor oil induction with said large baby, but it sounds like you're in fight or flight mode which will slow down your birthing until you can finish nesting. Those jerks are standing in your way.
Good luck- can you find a medical lawyer who would give you a phone consultation?


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## crunchymamatobe (Jul 8, 2004)

I was just reading last night (in this book, which is an amazing resource, but I don't think it's published in the US







: ) that there's no evidence that *too much* amniotic fluid is a problem. No little runs the risk of the cord being compressed too much during labor, but too much is a fiction of a problem.

Stay strong, mama! Don't let them bully you into anything!


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## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

Turn off the ringer on your phone. Get your families out of your business. Tell the doctors to go screw themselves. Stay at home if you possibly can. At the very least, labor at home as long as you can, and make damned sure your husband will back you up in saying no to a c-section when you do go to the hospital. Remember, you've got a legal right to refuse any intervention. Of course, the hospital _can_ refuse to treat you, but they're going to be far too concerned about their potential liability to turn you away. Decide now that you WILL NOT have a c-section. Get that clear in your mind, that it WILL NOT happen. Strengthen yourself now, in case you have to go to the hospital to give birth.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I'm also thinking that one of the reasons they're talking c-section is simply because with a baby that isn't engaged and a lot of amniotic fluid, AROM is more likely to cause cord prolapse. They are probably making a decision based on the assumption that they would _have_ to induce.


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## davidah (Apr 16, 2003)

One of the biggest reasons to avoid c-section is because of the risk to your future fertility. With the VBAC climate so bad these days, you may end up with multiple c/s, with increasing risks to you and your baby each time.

Tell the Dr. you meet with that you're thinking of wanting a large family (4 or 5 kids), and you're worried about the struggle to VBAC and the risk of multiple c/s.

I went 41w6days with my first, and we had AFI checks every 2 days at the end. I was shocked at how variable the fluid level estimates are. In my case, my fluid measured "low", so my supportive midwife had a Dr. re-measure the fluid, and it came out "normal." If she had been pushing induction, she would have taken the first measurement and said "we need to induce right now, low fluid is dangerous."

If you end up getting pushed into induction, there are things you can do to limit risk:

Do *not* allow your water to be broken
Find out your bishop score, and start with cervidil if necessary to ripen your cervix. Do not allow cytotec ever.
Ask if you can have a "physiological" pitocin protocol (lower doses), and try lowering the dose when ctx are well-established. You can't just "turn it off', but you can wean yourself to a lower dose. If the ctx fizzle out, you can always turn it back on.

GL!
Davidah


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

The last two posts brought something to mind. In regard to your "excess" of amniotic fluid and lack of engagement, do not let them strip or rupture your membranes. My sil had her membranes ruptured during an induction before her son was engaged and his cord prolapsed necessitating an emergency c-section. She was so glad that she was in the hospital b/c they 'saved the baby's life,' when the interventions were actually what caused the problem to start with!

Secondly, if the baby is not ready to be born, an induction may be wildly unsuccessful. That is what happened w/ dd#1 for me. They used a gel to ripen my cervix and then put my on pitocin. After nearly 3 days of the max dosage of pitocin and them manually forcing my cervix open by running a catheter up to it and filling it with saline, she was finally born w/ a ton of interventions that I didn't want (epidural, episiotomy) and she and I both had problems as a result (huge blood loss, meconium aspiration). She just wasn't ready to come. If we had waited longer, I strongly suspect that labor would have been a much easier endeavor.

You're only just past your EDD. I'd be inclined to wait at least a week longer before I started intervening at all. My grandmother called me with all kinds of concerns about babies dying from co-sleeping, etc. just like your dh's grandma. Her generation trusts doctors completely and was not raised to question. The baby that she is citing that died b/c they didn't schedule a c-section is not your baby. The circumstances may have been totally different, and babies don't usually die due to the cord entangling their necks in-utero. They are not yet breathing - oxygen is coming through the cord. If there was a lack of fluid and the cord got compressed, that could have caused the death, but that doesn't sound like the problem you have.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Here's a link to the free part of the section on birthlove for 10-month mamas
http://www.birthlove.com/free/ten_month_mama.html
About halfway down the page, there's a great list of tips.
HTH


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Another good link:
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/datesppr.html


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## party_of_seven (May 10, 2004)

I'm so sorry that the doctors are pulling that crap on you. I can't even encourage you enough to just throw in the towel and have a homebirth. You will never regret spending the extra money. Having a good safe and healthy birth helps to set the tone for your parenting. It helps to get bonding started right. It will put you in control instead of spending your entire labor defending yourself.

At the very least I recommend that you refuse all intervention and stay home as long as possible. Having a great doula will make things even better. If you show up at the hospital 9cms dialated there isn't much they can do to you.

I wish you lots of luck! No mama should have to put up with that kind of crap.


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

I wanted to suggest acupuncture to get labor going. My friend recently did that and went into labor after 2 acupunture sessions. I may be worth a try at this point and it's gentle. So if it doesnt' work, you know your baby and your body are not ready for labor.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn*
It DH might even be wavering, he told me that what is most important is a healthy baby, not how she gets here.

It's really amazing how many people feel this way, when they're not the ones facing the scalpel.


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## mamabutterfly (Jun 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlpolzin*
I wanted to suggest acupuncture to get labor going. My friend recently did that and went into labor after 2 acupunture sessions. I may be worth a try at this point and it's gentle. So if it doesnt' work, you know your baby and your body are not ready for labor.

A recent homebirth client of mine went twice to the acupuncturist & then twice to the chiro (she was 42 weeks), and she believes the baby was able to get well-positioned and labor began.

I don't think it's worrisome that a baby hadn't dropped but you'd definately only be helped by visiting a chiropractor before labor.








I'm so sorry you're getting all this hassle from every side, mama. I'm sending gentle birthing vibes from here...

mb


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## gottaknit (Apr 30, 2004)

Turning off the phone is an excellent idea.







I'd also recommend not spending too much time online, either.







It can be wicked stressful to read all sorts of scary scenarios and conflicting advice at a time like this (not that that's what you're reading here, but that kind of thing does tend to pop up when you're doing research online).

I opted for a castor oil induction, and I don't recommend it. Some people are very sensitive to it. The cramps were horrible and lasted for days, and I think if I'd left well enough alone I might have had a less exhausting labor.








Good Luck Sweetie. You can do it!!!


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## baby*by*the*sea (Sep 8, 2005)

Hind sight is 20/20. That being said I can say that don't let the doctors pressure you to be induced. I went to 41w 2d and was induced using cervidil.
I felt in my gut that I was going to have a large baby. My doctor assured me that she would be 8 lbs tops. I went for 3 NSTs and her heart was decelerating. I was worried and really confused and I let the doctor pressure me to have an induction. I spent 18 hours in labor and pushed for 3 hours, nothing went how I wanted. The doctor started talking C-section and I freaked out. I delivered vaginally and was really proud of myself. In the end a healthy baby was what really matters. I delivered a 10.2 oz baby and I am only 5'1. You can do this mamma!!! Nature would never give you a baby that your body couldn't handle!! I will be thinking about you!!


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

You need to rest and nest to let your baby come. RElax, and have some tea.







make love, and wait ...







... baby will be here soon.... and you and DH will someday laugh about all of this....:LOL


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

I have been afraid to post this update, because I know that many of you will be unhappy with my choice (although why do I care what a bunch of people on the internet think???). It is the right choice for us.

We went in and talked to the doctor. He sat down with us and talked with us for 45 minutes. He also didn't talk down to us, I think he knew that we were intelligent, educated, and had informed ourselves on the issues. I explained to him all our hopes for a natural birth, and that we chose this practice because it had a midwife. He pretty much said that midwifes that deliver in hospitals are still bound to the same rules as the doctors in their practice, which of course are largely created to avoid lawsuites (damn our litigious society!!!). He did trash home midwives, saying they aren't safe because they might not have the training, but I bit my tongue. I don't agree, but I do feel that if you go that route you should definitely check their credentials. He explained to us that due to the estimated weight, the chest circumfrence (he cited papers that found this to be more accurate measured on ultrasound) and the increased level of amniotic fluid, they suspected (could not confirm though) that I had gestational diabetes that was missed during the glucose screening. He explained the risks of shoulder dystocia. He said that there was no way they would induce me, because my body is not favorable for that (closed cervix, baby not engaged) and it would most likely just end in a c-section anyway. He said that he suspected that the baby had not engaged yet because she was too big, and my uterus had only been doing half strength contractions because my body knew something was wrong. He said he believes in trusting the uterus. Because of this, he was recommending a scheduled c-section. He did say that if we went into labor on our own, he would be willing to let us attempt a vaginal birth at the hospital but he would be following the Friedman's curve and pushing for a section at the first sign of trouble. He did admit that yes, ultrasounds can be off, and this baby could come out at 8 lbs (I told him I would be so angry if we went for a section and that happened, and he nodded). He also said that now-days if you have a section once, it usually means sections for the rest of your births (this was the only point where I started crying during the discussion). My doula assures me that she does know some good VBAC docs in the area, but that birth (we only plan to have two children) is several years away, and I can't worry about that now. After talking to the doctor though, we both felt much better about everything that we ever thought we would.

We decided to shedule a c-section for Monday morning. I know that many here have said just sit at home an wait for labor, but I don't feel that is the correct choice for me. I know that my body wouldn't grow a baby too big for my body, but if I have had untreated gestational diabetes, then that could change things (my doula feels that this is one thing that could cause a baby to grow "too big"). I have felt this baby try to wiggle her way down several times, yet she is still floating above my pelvis, so maybe there is something wrong.
I have felt in my gut for a very long time that she was planning to come out this weekend. I feel that if it is safe for her to come out naturally, she will chose to do so before Monday. I don't feel safe trying things like castor oil, but I am going to relax this weekend and practice my hypnobirthing techniques, visualize good things, and tell her she is safe, and let her know her choices. My contractions seem to have been getting stronger, so I am hopeful. I have also been following someones recommendation to cut out sugar, to lower the amniotic fluid level. On monday my levels were 25, and I ended up with an ultrasound again yesterday, because the non-stress test didn't work because baby was kicking too much, they couldn't keep the monitor on her. The tech (who has become our friend over the course of this pregnancy) told us the baby is healthy, and that the fluid levels have dropped slightly to 21 (12 is considered normal). Maybe that doesn't mean anything (measurements can change greatly), but maybe cutting sugar has made a difference. We also plan to labor at home (if it happens) for as long as we feel safe.

If monday comes and she still isn't out yet, I know that I will be sad, and will mourn the loss of my natural birth. However, I no longer feel like I am being railroaded into making a bad decision. I was really scared that my feelings about the birth would overshadow the joy of meeting my daughter, and I no longer feel that way.

Of course, DH's mom wanted to know why we didn't schedule it for today. He had to tell her several times that the Doctor was OK with our decision, and so she should be too.

We are very upset with our midwife, and we even told the doctor so, he said he can't control his colleagues, but she does lack people skills. We had chosen to see her because we didn't want medical interventions pushed on us with no explanation, and that is exactly what we got from her. Looking back, maybe we should have seen it coming (she was always late for appointments, never took the time to talk to us - but I just felt that it was because I didn't ask enough questions). I felt it was strange that our midwife just told us over the phone that we needed to do a c-section (and she even told us not to bother to go in and talk to a doctor about it, because it wouldn't change things), while a doctor actually bothered to sit us down and talk to us about it.

So, now we are going to go enjoy our last weekend of being a couple before we become a family. Please send good labor vibes and hope that the baby can come out on her own. I am not going to check back right now, because I am afraid of what some people might say about my decision. Perhaps I will come back to tell you about the birth after my baby is here.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I hope you will have a wonderful birth experience.


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

Mama, it sounds like you have made a thoughtful and informed decision about what is best for you and your baby. I hope you have a wonderful birth experience!


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## Kerlowyn (Mar 15, 2002)

turtlewomyn









You have made an informed decision, that's what is most important. You looked for the reasons why, asked for info, found someone to respectfully sit with you and discuss...and made a choice that is right you you.

Blessings to you as you become a family, not long from now!!


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## J-Max (Sep 25, 2003)

Hi, as a fellow c-sec mom, I just want you to know that you can have a good c-sec. Please come check out the support thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=336680
Hope you have a wonderful birth!


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

I wish you all the best. I'm glad that they waited until Mon. to schedule the section. Like you said, if it's meant to happen you've given her plenty of time to come. I wish you all the best and I hope you have a wonderful babymoon when your sweet little girl gets here!!


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I think if anyone were to say something against your choice, it would not be out of disdain for you, but out of concern.







I, too, hope that it all turns out for the best and that you can come to a place of peace about your experience, whatever that may be.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

i understand your concerns, and you certainly have made an Informed decision, even if it is not what you wanted. I did want to reassure you that even a baby grown "extra-big" by diabetes can be healthy and happy, becaise mine is!! I have type 2 diabetes (PCOS-related) and i was completely unable to keep my sugars down during pregnancy (long story), and grew a quite big baby myself...only 9 poundsish, but a HUGE 15.25 inch head and even larger shoulders......but if it makes you feel better, this "huge" baby came out of little barely 5 foot tall me!! I hope all works out for you.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Hopefully your feeling of peace and calmness about this now will allow your body to go into labor this weekend if it's meant to be.

I think it's very important to trust your gut feelings on this kind of thing. If you have a calm feeling, then it's good.

Wishing you all the best, and glad you got someone to talk to you respectfully!


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I'm glad that the doctor was willing to tell you his motivations and answer your questions. You might ask (in writing, in your birth plan, plus verbally to the surgeon right before the procedure) that your uterus be sutured with a double layer of stitches. This can increase your chances of a successful VBAC later.

I'll be thinking you, Mama. Come on, babyturtle! Time to come out!


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

I am worried about the Friedman curve bit. It allows for very little wiggle room. If you do go into labor this weekend







: then I wouldn't go rushing into the hospital with the first twinge!


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

I will be thinking of you this weekend and on Monday especially. I look forward to hearing about you new baby - please share pictures if you are comfortable putting them on the web! Every birth-day is something to celebrate.


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn*

I find it bizarre that my baby would even turn breech now (as a poster suggested could be their concern), she has been head down for the past 10 weeks for pete's sake.


This is always a possibility until the head is well engaged. My Abigail had been vertex for 3 months and then turned the day my water broke. I had a c-section as she was completely transverse and there was no way to turn her after ROM. She was only 4 lb 15 oz and I could have freaking sneezed and shot her out if she were breech or vertex.

So there is always that possibility until engagement.


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## IansMommy (Jun 14, 2005)

turtlewomyn... your situation is almost IDENTICAL to mine back in April. When I read all of your posts, all of the feelings came back. I, too, consented to the Monday c-section. I then cancelled it, and eventually was sectioned that Wednesday. Like you, words cannot describe the frustration--pray, relax, walk. Whatever happens, it is your beautiful baby's birth. If the c section is what happens, do something nice the day before it. I did--took my older dd to the park, had a picnic, fingerpainted...I wanted to be able to remember the good day before my ds's birth--not all of the stress. I hope you go into labor. Peace in your delivery.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Iansmommy, How big did your baby turn out to be at birth?

Turtlewomyn, I hope that things go well. I think that the main thing is to not feel like you weren't an active participant in making your labor decisions. I believe that I was so disappointed with my first labor b/c I felt that many of the decisions were made without adequately informing me of the consequences and reasons. Some were also made without my consent. However, it sounds like you are at peace with the choices that you have made, so I hope that your daughter's birth is empowering.


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## IansMommy (Jun 14, 2005)

ChristaN...my son Ian was 8 lbs, 7 ounces (long and skinny). I was coerced into the section with him--a VBAC attempt--because 1. his projected size of 10 lbs, and more importantly 2. he was 14 days past EDD with "nothing going on" with my cervix. ALL of my NST's were great. I caved because of the stress.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IansMommy*
2. he was 14 days past EDD with "nothing going on" with my cervix. ALL of my NST's were great. I caved because of the stress.

Except that mine was only 12 days, I could have written this...

Best wishes, turtlewomyn...the important thing is that you're okay with this. I'm sending you labour vibes for this weekend, and if that doesn't work out, I hope your section isn't a bad experience for you.


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## littleteapot (Sep 18, 2003)

About the turning breech thing: I have read many stories about babies turning breech in times when mom's delivery is threatened, she's stressed out, etc. Your body will close up if you feel unsafe to birth and baby may flip out of a favourable position...
Of course, this is far from a clinical diagnosis, but it's something to consider.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I'm sorry that you've been so stressed and pushed by so many in this process. I hope you have a good birth experience and come out on the other side still feeling like it was a good choice.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Peace.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I hope everything works out for you and you'll hold your healthy baby girl in your arms soon.


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

Thinking good - hopeful thoughts for this mama today!


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Okay this is me









I've got a plan







:

I'm planning to visit (metaphorically, don't worry, no stalking mama) *turtlewomyn*

I've lit my candle









and I'm sending thoughts her way today









Wanna come too?









Here we go









Be very quiet, we have to sneak in








:

OK - I see her! There's our friend







:

Hi Mama!







:

What a cute baby!







:

Hey, now, no crowding!









We brought you some cake







:

There are so many people in here. It's a room full of celebration!











































































































Alright, we better get outta here, the nurse is coming









Goodbye new family!














:


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## chrissy (Jun 5, 2002)

Kristen, I am so sorry that you worried that people would make you feel badly about your decision. YOU are the mama and you know what is right for you and your family. I am thinking lots of happy, sweet baby smell thoughts and hope you do come back and let us know how you are all doing.
Congrats on your baby girl, who I am sure you are now holding in your arms!!


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Please do check back in with us and let us know how your delivery went and all about your new baby.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Apricot: I love your post!

Turtelwomyn: We're all thinking of you today. Best wishes to you and your new little one!


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Thinking of your family today, hoping all is well.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Yes, please post here with your good news! I hope that your birth was wonderful and that I won't miss your happy post!!!


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

Welcome to the world, Little One!


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

I suppose I should go post a birth story, but I just thought I would update quick. We got home today from the hospital, and I just nursed (she has a super strong suck and my nipples are all bruised!!!!)

Savannah was born on Monday morning at 8:09 am. She was born via cesarean. I think that we made the most of it. We got to the hospital when we were supposed to, they put us in the room. DH and I cried together, knowing that this wasn't what we planned. A nurse came in and patted me on the back and said "I know what you are going through honey, I had four c-sections." We had really great nurses for the operation and the first day in the hospital, this helped. They did the procedures (oh my god, I don't ever want to have a catheter again, ow ow ow!). One of the surgeons came in to talk to us, I explained what we had been planning (she remembered me and the hypnobirthing) and asked for a double layer of sutures so that a future VBAC would be more likely. She was really cool about that. The surgery was no fun, the anesthesiologist was telling his assistant in Spanish how to put the needle in me. Since I speak Spanish (but am a gringa, so most latinos don't have a clue that I speak it) I could hear him giving her directions, I was thinking what the heck is someone doing sticking a needle in my back who doesn't know how to do it? Finally the nurse holding on to me asked if I spoke Spanish, and I said I did. At that point the lead anesthesiologist came and put the needle in. I did not like not being able to move my legs. I used my hypnobirthing breathing and some of the visualizations to help get me through it all. They put the curtain up and I guess they started the work. I asked where my DH was, and they brought him in (I think they wait until last minute so that it goes quick). He sat beside me behind the curtain and held my hand. Very quickly we heard her beautiful cries. We cried together, DH got some gory pictures of it, but I guess I am glad we have that. They cleaned her up and checked her out. They brought her around to me and I touched her, kissed her, and told her I loved her (this is a bit of a blur as I was a bit out of it due to the pain killer in the spinal).







She went back to the room with DH. When I got to the room my MIL and SFIL were there, but I was the first non medical staff to hold her besides DH, and that was good. For some reason our midwife was there, which was not good, since we are still mad at her for totally violating the concept of informed consent. She got our vibes and left (at this point I was also yakking into one of those little pans they have for that purpose). It seemed like once our daughter was here, the way she got here didn't matter quite as much, we were just so happy to have her. I also got to breastfeed her within an hour of her being born (it seemed so easy at first, but has been difficult still). By the way, she was 9lbs, 8.5 oz (ultrasound the week before guessed 9lbs10oz, so close) and had a 15 inch head circumfrence, and 14.5 inch chest circumfrence. So, she is a big baby at least, I would have been so mad if their estimates had been way off (the doctor told me that their particular ultrasound techs are really good) and she came out small.
I have been recovering very well, I kept refusing to take the percoset they wanted to give me, and am just taking motrin, my nipples hurt more from the nursing than the incision! (but I think we got the latch down now, so that should get better soon!!)
I am so happy and so in love.







This has also brought DH and I so much closer together, not only having to deal with the last minute plan changes, and our feelings, but I just love watching him ( a big 6ft3 tall cop) turn into mush when he is cuddling and talking to his daughter. This whole experience has just reinforced that I picked the perfect partner for me to go through life with.









Life is good!!!!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

*Welcome Savannah!!*
















I'm so glad that you're happy with your little girl's birth. Congratulations!!


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## BumbleBena (Mar 18, 2005)

Congrats Kristen! Happy Birthday, Savannah!


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## Spark (Nov 21, 2001)

Oh, Kristen!







Congrats on your sweet little girl. I'm sorry you did not get to birth her in the way you planned. And, I'm so glad she's here and you are healing.

Happy, blessed babymoon!


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## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

Congratulations! I am so hjappy to hear that everything went as well as it did. Hang in there with the breastfeeding - and if you're still having that type of pain be sure to call someone sooner than later!
Sending happy family thoughts your way!!


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

cool!!! beautiful story.


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## Mrs Dimples (Apr 17, 2004)

Oh, thanks for the update.







I have been thinking about you a lot, and I am so glad that you had a happy birth even though it wasn't what you had hoped and planned on. Life throws us curveballs sometimes, YK? Parenthood especially is chock-full of them.







Glad nursing is going pretty well - hang in there, it will get easier and PLEASE call someone if your nipples don't start feeling better very soon. It doesn't have to hurt. Enjoy your new beautiful daughter and your husband and your new family. It's absolutely incredible.


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## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Congratulations!!!! Enjoy your new baby.


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## IansMommy (Jun 14, 2005)

Congratulations!!!
Ditto on the catheter...that was the worst part of the c-section! Enjoy every moment!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

CONGRATS!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Congratulations and best wishes for many happy times together!


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Welcome to the world little Savannah!


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Welcome to the world Savannah!!!! Enjoy your babymoon!!!!







:














:


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## Raynbow (Aug 2, 2004)

Me too! T was supposed to be over 11, even 12 lbs. He was 8lbs 15,5ozs.


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

Congratulations on your precious little girl!


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Congratulations Kristen!!! Welcome Savannah (what a beautiful name!)!!


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