# I'm Too Pretty To Do Math Tee



## Jumblepuff (Nov 10, 2004)

Long story short we were visiting my DH's Aunt and Uncle and his teenage cousin had a catalog with THIS in it. WTF?! It's a magazine called Alloy that targets pre-teen and teenage girls. It's full of crap, but this is just beyond anything that I have seen in it before. Just what every girl needs, a shirt that advertises sexist stereotypes.







It makes me feel physically ill that there are probably girls out there wearing this.







Here is their contact page, I am sending them a letter via snail mail, already sent an e-mail to their editorial staff.







I am trying to find the contact info for the shirt manufacturer now. If anyone else wants to give them an earful that would be great.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

JMHO, but I think it's called satire. Math was my best subject in school, I work in accounting now, and I'd love to order a shirt like that.

JMO again, but one thing I've noticed about the next generation of feminism is that whereas the generation I was raised with in the 70s/80s took themselves very seriously and very competitively as equals, the next generation seems to take the attitude "whatever tactics win the game". I was sort of the in-between generation and DID use my sexuality to get ahead but I felt like a traitor for doing so. (But it worked!) I see this as using sexuality and humor to their advantage.

I worked for a male CPA, a recent widower nearing retirement and although he knew I was in school taking financial classes, and he knew what I was capable of when it came to crunching numbers for our clients, he would give me his wife's issues of House Beautiful and Home and Garden, but when he finished his financial magazines (which interested me much more) he would go out and put them in the downstairs lobby







where I would fetch them and take them home. (Not in our lobby where it might be logical mind you, the one of the general building). I would have LOVED to show up to work one day wearing that shirt!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Oh, I think I see a Birthday present for DP. :LOL He *totally* wants one of those "I kissed Ashton" or "Mrs. Pitt" shirts but they just don't come in men's XL.


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gendenwitha*
JMHO, but I think it's called satire. Math was my best subject in school, I work in accounting now, and I'd love to order a shirt like that.

JMO again, but one thing I've noticed about the next generation of feminism is that whereas the generation I was raised with in the 70s/80s took themselves very seriously and very competitively as equals, the next generation seems to take the attitude "whatever tactics win the game". I was sort of the in-between generation and DID use my sexuality to get ahead but I felt like a traitor for doing so. (But it worked!) I see this as using sexuality and humor to their advantage.

I worked for a male CPA, a recent widower nearing retirement and although he knew I was in school taking financial classes, and he knew what I was capable of when it came to crunching numbers for our clients, he would give me his wife's issues of House Beautiful and Home and Garden, but when he finished his financial magazines (which interested me much more) he would go out and put them in the downstairs lobby







where I would fetch them and take them home. (Not in our lobby where it might be logical mind you, the one of the general building). I would have LOVED to show up to work one day wearing that shirt!

I'm sure he just meant that as a satire.


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## Jumblepuff (Nov 10, 2004)

Here is a link to an article about the manufacturer, seems they have an entire line dedicated to sexism and some lovely racist ones as well: YUCK
Other companies have yanked the products from their catalogs and stores so maybe with enough outcry ALLOY will follow.

Seems a bit contradictive to say things like this are 'satire' then complain about being a victim of gender stereotyping. I am sure that wearing this to work would have helped your case though







.


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## guest9969 (Apr 16, 2004)

If someone starts a new thread (outside Activism), PM me the link please.


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## Jumblepuff (Nov 10, 2004)

If you think this is a great shirt and want to buy it please start your own thread in another forum rather than trivializing the opinion of those of us who take issue with its message by posting here. Thanks!


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## CindyC (Mar 22, 2002)

I'm an engineer, did very well in Math, and I'm offended by the shirt as well.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

My first thought when I read the title of the subject was : Man, I wish I was! (too pretty to have to do math)

Trisha, I don't know if you are going to find tons of women here who find insult with this tee-shirt. A while back, a bunch of members were praising a "Formula is for Pussies" tee shirt a mom made for a baby, others who took insult with it were told to lighten up.
It's a personal thing, some people are going to love these kinds of tee-shirts and others (obviously) are going to hate them.

I don't think you can post in a public forum without hearing other peoples opinions. Just my humble 2 cents.

Katie


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

I think it's funny. I am horrible at math, and that's what is keeping me from getting my college degree.

Kristi


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darsmama*
I don't think you can post in a public forum without hearing other peoples opinions. Just my humble 2 cents.


Except it's part of the rules of the activism forum (see sticky at top of forum)

Quote:

In addition - if you do not agree with a call to action/rally/protest, please do not post to the thread. Instead begin a thread in News & Current Events, or other appropriate forum, for discussion or the topic. Do not discuss the thread, or the original poster of the thread. If you find a counter cause of one posted here to be worthy, please start a new thread in Activism. THIS IS NOT A DEBATE BOARD.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jumblepuff*
If you think this is a great shirt and want to buy it please start your own thread in another forum rather than trivializing the opinion of those of us who take issue with its message by posting here. Thanks!

Just to clarify... I would hope my DD would never want to wear this shirt. I think my DH wearing this shirt (slightly overweight, nerdy tech guy that he is) would be HILARIOUS! Additionally, I am sorry if my previous comments were seen as non supportive--- I fully agree with making Activism posts SUPPORT only. Jumblepuff, if you would like me to edit out my previous comments just PM me. You might also not know what the "!" in the triangle button is--- it is to report "bad" posts--- you can use that too.


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## Jumblepuff (Nov 10, 2004)

Quote:

Except it's part of the rules of the activism forum (see sticky at top of forum)








Thanks AnnetteMarie! Any other forum I wouldn't care, but I put this here specifically for anyone who might want to write a letter or e-mail, not to debate if it is funny or not.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Except it's part of the rules of the activism forum (see sticky at top of forum)

Um, while we are talking about 'the rules', isn't there one about how you are supposed to leave 'forum discipline' up to the moderators?


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## ma2maya (Jun 12, 2003)

So I saw some of this company's products(hats) at the dollar store the other day, so they must be doing well for themselves with these types of products









Kathy


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

here is the company's website.
http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/

it's pretty bad

Court


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2six*
Um, while we are talking about 'the rules', isn't there one about how you are supposed to leave 'forum discipline' up to the moderators?

How is stating a rule part of forum discipline?


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Am not surprised that these are the same folks who put out that "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" shirt.

And remembering the brouhaha here over that one ...









And I still think it's horrible, and am very thankful to the previous posters for posting the tolerance.org link with the information about company contact/activism.

You go, mamas.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GriffinsMom*
I think if you are going to take the stand that it is unacceptable for us to post that it is funny (for us math-type girls) then you have to find it unacceptable of everyone. I mean, that is the point, isn't it?

Quite simply, I would have no issue w/my DD wearing it because she would understand the irony/sarcasm behind the statement. Young teens in general, though, do not have a find grasp on irony/sarcasm and I would not want *them* to feel like their inner feelings of sexism were being supported.

For example, I do not consider it acceptable for people to tell sexist/racist (please, lets not go into how they are *never* appropraite, okay) jokes around my BIL (who is 24, btw) because he actually is sexist and racist. When I realized that when he was a teen, I felt he was thinking, "See, everyone really does agree with me." Well, they don't. And, honestly, I feel like the shirt on a preteen/young teen would be welcomed w/the same perception by a lot of people.

And no, in general, just because I find something appropriate for one group of people does NOT mean it is appropriate for all. If a woman is in a highly technical field (math/computers/etc...) and she wore this to work probably everyone would "Get it." If a teen girl is wearing it to the mall, some may "get it" and some may think "gosh, she sucks at math." Now, I know that my DD & I are not responsible for all of peoples perceptions but I think we do a great disservice to children WHILE THEY ARE STILL FORMING THEIR OPINIONS to introduce them to things that are supposed to be TIC that they use to form a backbone for their belief system.


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## guest9969 (Apr 16, 2004)

Well... I would agree with you about the teenage girls. But that is ***completely*** outside the point I made.

And, if you are going to take issue with me (a grown woman in a highly techinical field) saying I think its funny to wear it (on ME) then you should also take issue with saying its funny for your husband to wear it (in Activism anyway). I would state my opinion on seeing your husband wear it but this IS Activism and we DO know the rules by now, don't we? I mean, they have been pointed out and everything...







:

And, for the record, I said you should consider it uniformly INAPPROPRIATE (***not*** unifomly appropriate). There is a BIG difference there.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Hmm, well even if everyone else didn't appreciate it - Thanks AM for pointing that out. Now, where in this topic can I add a bunch of sex talk? Hmmmmmm.

:LOL


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## chiromama (Dec 29, 2003)

I'd counter that "i'm too pretty to do math" t-shirt with a "I'm too smart to sleep with you".


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I think the main difference between a woman and a man wearing the shirt is how it challenges or promotes gender stereotypes.

Thanks for the link, I will write... it is crazy that our society expects women to suck at technical fields sinply because of their genitals.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Oooh I like that Chiromama or how about :

"I slept with my math teacher and all I got was this t-shirt"


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Ok, ok...I'm done. Jum, keep on it


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Wait, I have to add as a disclaimer: I hate math, but I feel that part of the reason is because I had a teacher who treated me like because I was a girl, I couldn't ever 'catch' it. Add in the fact I was overweight and to her, I was pretty much lazy and unteachable.

I would never, ever, wear this tee or anything like it and I would pitch a fit if my 10 year old dd came home wearing it. Almost as bad as the "You need a Tutor" tee.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, I hate the shirt and find it offensive, but I almost find myself thinking that it only makes sense as satire. I mean, it is too blatant to be anything else right? But then I figure that is what the anti-feminists want us to think and they have no problems with being blatant.

The only way I think it would be funny was on a man or a woman who clearly was not very pretty and who worked in a mathematical or scientific field.

I have always been bad at math and this shirt brings up bad feelings for me. I feel like darsmama. I had teachers who probably didn't think I could grasp certain things, so just didn't even try. Now, to be fair, I've always been math impaired, but I think with maybe a different teaching method, I might have done well enough.

I diagnosed myself with a math learning disability based on the fact that I was always behind everyone else in school, I had a low math SAT score compared to my verbal score, and I only got through Algebra 2 in high school (instead of trig/pre-calc or calc like most people in my peer group). Even so, I have found that I have a higher grasp of some math concepts than some people who are considered really bright and good students (yet who can't figure out what 10% of something is). It's kind of scary!


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## Louma (Mar 30, 2005)

Oops. Nevermind.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

OT, but there is a great book called "Overcoming Math Anxiety" by Sheila Tobias. I highly recommend it to anyone with math phobias, especially if you are homeschooling and are going to have to teach math.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

I could see how that would be funny Louma.

Viola, I am the same way. I can figure out something as long as I know it isn't math I'm dealing with. Take recipes for instance. But give me the same problem dressed up as math and I'm useless.
I think if I would have had teachers who cared, and a different teaching method - I could be math smart. Sorry for going so off topic Jum


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanks AM, I'll have to check it out.


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## Louma (Mar 30, 2005)

Ha, I went back and deleted what I wrote because I finished reading the thread and thought I might be offending people, and it didn't seem worth it. I had said that I have a friend who teaches math and that I thought it would be pretty funny if she wore it to work. It's only funny if you clearly do know how to do math, in my opinion.

I guess I just figure that you can make your point by making fun of people who actually believe that intellectual abilities are tied to gender or level of attractiveness by using their own slogans as punch lines to sarcastic jokes. On the other hand, I am not particularly interested in supporting a company that intends those shirts to be worn by teens, as this one seems to intend.


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## alliegad (Dec 8, 2004)

I find it quite sad that impressionable teenage (and worse- pre-teen) girls think that somehow this kind of shirt is "cool." It is disgusting, and it is the society that we life in. It saddens me.


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## guest9969 (Apr 16, 2004)

OK... really. We have got to start a NEW THREAD. The OP asked us not to state our opinion about it being funny and I want to respect that but feel like I can't say ANYTHING here now. Here's a thread (where you all may state anything you want) regarding this t-shirt:

New thread

If you want to state support for the OP, please post there. If you want to "discuss" its merit/lack of merit, please join the new post. Hope to see (ALL) opinions over there!


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## Jumblepuff (Nov 10, 2004)

Thanks for the new thread GM. My main problem in the OP here is the place I saw the shirt and the audience it was marketed to. I don't know a lot of 12-15 year old girls who would see this as a satirical message. Really we are talking about the same demographic that makes Jessica Simpson and her "dumb blonde" persona so popular. I hate the message that it send to girls and young women who are still trying to establish an identity. As an aside look how many replies my thread got...I feel so loved


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Just thought that some of you might be interested in the letter I wrote:

Quote:

Dear Customer Service of Alloy.com,

I just was shown your t-shirt that reads (in pink) "I'm Too Pretty To Do Math".

Although I see how FUNNY it would be if worn by one of the partners of my firm, I cannot begin to imagine what kind of mind would market such blatant, pseudo-ironic, sexist crap to young teen girls.

I can assure you that not only am I "pretty", I "do" math by choice, I can do calculus and program and tell a construction contractor how to build his/her foundation. There are not enough people, let alone women, who seem willing to try and learn the "hard stuff". Discouraging them or, even worse, encouraging them to disregard math and all the subjects a nodding acquaintence with math makes accessible, is shortsighted and BORING.

Do you realize that nearly everything of what you sell would not be possible without engineers and, horrors, math? And your web site? Do you think that sprung out of the ground fully-formed?

And, I can assure you, I am not only pretty, I would probably blow you away without even brushing my hair. And I never have to wear make up.

Sincerely,
And I sent it from my e-mail account at work. The signature shows my firm and gives a link to our website.


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