# UGH!! MIL rant! Update post #79



## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

So dh and me have not discussed Circ in a while. He wants it, I dont. Found out insurance wont cover it unless its done at the hospital. We are having a home birth so we would have to pay out of pocket for it. DH's hours have been cut really bad so I know we cant afford it and figured the issue would just die away and pretty much has. Until today!! DH stopped to see his mom this morning and she asked about Circ. he told her that I wont even talk about it with him any more. He told her we cant afford to pay out of pocket for it so she told him to find out how much its going to be and of course she will pay for it!!! "Its something that just has to be done" I am so insulted!!! I knew thats what she would say. I dint discuss it any further. DH knows where I stand. She babysits a lot, its not possible for her to find a doc and get this done behind my back, is it??


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

I don't think any law-abiding doctor would circ a baby if the grandparent tried to arrange it. That sounds like grounds for a Big Time lawsuit.

But if your MIL is going to be babysitting your son, you need to make SURE she won't retract!


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
So dh and me have not discussed Circ in a while. He wants it, I dont. Found out insurance wont cover it unless its done at the hospital. We are having a home birth so we would have to pay out of pocket for it. DH's hours have been cut really bad so I know we cant afford it and figured the issue would just die away and pretty much has. Until today!! DH stopped to see his mom this morning and she asked about Circ. he told her that I wont even talk about it with him any more. He told her we cant afford to pay out of pocket for it so she told him to find out how much its going to be and of course she will pay for it!!! "Its something that just has to be done" I am so insulted!!! I knew thats what she would say. I dint discuss it any further. DH knows where I stand. She babysits a lot, its not possible for her to find a doc and get this done behind my back, is it??

It might be possible but would be really stupid on her part. It would also be a significant liability for her and the Dr you might need to make it clear the repercussions such a move would create.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

does she know your stance on this?

I would be uber irked. To the point of 'we need to have a talk' and pulling her aside to tell her to butt out.

I'm angry for you.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Unfortunatly yes it is possible for her to have it done without your concent. All she has to do it make the appt. and take him in it is as simple as that. She can give any story about you she wishes and since your dh isnt on board with not circing he might even go with her.

If you have no other choice but to let her babysit you need to sit down with her and explain it in a way you know she will understand that if she where to do something like that she would never see her grandchild again and any other "facts" that might befall her should she even consider it.

In all honesty I would be terrified to leave my ds with her. What if she decides to retract him so that it causes damage so he will "have" to be circed. Even if she backs off on the circ issue.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this but please mama talk to your MIL dont let their be any doubt in her mind where you stand on circ.

We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.


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## bezark (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.











Wow. That kind of deception would be grounds for divorce for me.


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## LadyMage (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bezark* 









Wow. That kind of deception would be *grounds for divorce* for me.

Here, here!

My DH and I only have a 12mo DD, but we've fought over the circumcision 'decision' off and on since I discovered more about it AFTER DD was born. Thank GOD I didn't have a boy first, or he may be cut right now! DH wants to circ if we have boys- he is, and wants his sons to be, too. We went through the rounds of 'oh, it's cleaner' and 'insert other circ myth here' but I finally just wore him down to he 'just thinks it looks better'. I, of course, hadn't bridged the gap to speak to MIL about it, and if I ever were pregnant with a boy, should she give me any advice on the subject, I would most certainly bite her head off. Anyway, yeah, if DH went behind my back and had our future son/s mutilated because he has hangups about his own penis, I wouldn't need a divorce- I'd need a wooden box and shovel.









~LM


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
We had a poster here years ago who's MIL made the appt and the father was in on it with her. They where going to take the baby to give mom a break and take him to have it done. Lucky for the mom the MIL gave the dad's address as contact and they sent a letter to sign for concent and the mom got it or her little boy would have been circed.

Wow, what happened with that woman. Did she divorce that guy?

To the OP- I think thats a more unusual case, but you do need to sit down with your MIL and let her know that you and her son are the parents. Tell her, you understand she is just trying to help, but as parents, this is an issue you and your husband will figure out, and ask her to butt out until AFTER a decision is made.


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

Well I went to her house today just to hang out and I wasnt there 2 min. before she brought it up. She was at physical therapy today and brought it up to her therapist, who has two boys. I stopped her there. Just told her I refuse to talk about it. Thats that. I think before we even knew we were having a boy she asked if we would do it and I said no and we got into about it, so she knows where I stand. I am just too hormonal right now to discuss anything with out breaking out crying. There was no way I was going to talk about it. DH wants it done but I dont think he would go behind my back like that and do it.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

To the best of my memory she is still with her dh. They did get into a big fight about it though but she decided since he backed down after her finding out he would just let it go.

That is the only story like that I have came across here that extreme thank goodness.

She never thought that her dh would do something like that either but he surprised her


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

Well dh and me just got into a huge argument about it agian! I dont know what to do any more!! He left for work and I am left crying. Argument put on hold until another day!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Just let it go mama it isnt good for you or the baby. If you are having a hospital birth dont let the baby out of your site and anyone that enters the room gets the "he is not to be circed" lecture.

I hope your dh comes around but putting your foot down and saying it isnt happening might be the way it has to be. I didnt like doing it but oh well ds is intact and dh is still not anti circ. But all that matters is ds is whole.


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## Papai (Apr 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
Well dh and me just got into a huge argument about it agian! I dont know what to do any more!! He left for work and I am left crying. Argument put on hold until another day!

What are his reasons for wanting it done?


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

What kind of insurance do you have? If you're going to have a regular pediatrician, make it quite clear to him/her that under no circumstances do you consent to your son being circumsized, and that if one is performed on your child anyway (with father's consent), you will take any necessary legal action.

Also make it quite clear to your MIL and DH that if they try to do it behind your back, there will be hell to pay. Period.

Honestly, most doctors won't even see a child for the first time without a parent or legal guardian present, let alone perform a procedure like a circ on them without parental consent.


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## needhelpplease (Sep 18, 2007)

I know this sounds extreme, but you might consider sending letters to paediatricians in your area notifying them not to perform the procedure without your consent. Just in case.

Good luck. I hope you can convince him, or if not, just have it at the point where he can't/won't do anything.


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## serenekitten (Nov 20, 2008)

s

I was told by my DPs that boyfriend's mother says it (circ) WILL be done. I couldn't form a coherent response at the time -- that this is not her baby to decide what "will" be done and what won't.

Hang in there. I hope things work out positively.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

I would tell my MIL that it can't be done without mother's permission and presence and if it was in any way attempted that you would call the police, file charges, and sue. Not to mention divorce her son in a heartbeat and then she will *never* get visitation.

That is pretty extreme. If it were me, I would just look her straight in the face and tell her that your son's penis is none of her business and it is unhealthy and making you uncomfortable that she is taking such an interest in it.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Well, you have recieved some good advice about preventing the deed from taking place, and I would not take that lightly. Definitely talk to your Dr. However, I feel that , if possible, you need to somehow educate your DH and your MIL to get them off your back. Maybe print our the article on circumcision that was published in "Men's Health" some years ago. That should have credibility enough for your DH. For MIL, how about the article published by Dr Christianne Northrup (very well respected female Dr) entitled " How circumcision may have ruined your sex life" - or something like that.
Good luck - and don't give up. We are all here for you!


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Maybe your MIL feels so strongly about it because she doesn't want to admit that she did it to her son unnecessarily?

Just tell her you know she made the best decision for her son with the information she had at the time. Now that the medical community knows that circ is not medically necessary you will make the best decision for your son that you can. Tell her you expect her to respect your decision and you would appreciate if she'd quit meddling in your marriage by discussing it with your husband - this is a decision between yourself and your husband, not her. She really needs to drop it. Tell her you know she doesn't want to cause harm to her son's marriage.

Also, ask her if she will have a problem following your care instructions for your son's intact penis. This opens the door to explaining that she should never retract, wipe it just like a finger, etc. Her answer and reaction will tell you if you'll be able to trust her with the care of your son.

By explaining it to her that you are making the most informed decision you remove her from the debate. She can't argue if you won't argue with her. Also, by talking to her about it point blank and showing that you aren't going to argue or be swayed by her it should send a strong message that this is not a battle she will win and she is also possibly harming your marriage.

As far as DH is concerned - I'm sorry he is still not in agreement with you. Have you tried to agree to disagree and let your son make the decision when he is old enough to consent to plastic surgery? What are his arguments for having it done?

Hugs to you. You'll get through this, have a beautiful baby boy and it will all blow over as he grows up.


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

i am afraid that if my mil made this offer knowing how i feel i would not allow her to be alone with my child, as her lack of respect for me would not be something that i would be happy for my child to be exposed to.


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

I'm sorry.









Don't you think the reason to do such a thing on an innocent person is kind of shallow?

He will come around. Protect your baby. He will thank you for it later.

I didn't fight hard enough and my husband won that battle. Now that we both know better we both terribly regret what happened and are very VERY ANGRY at the American Medical Community for doing what they did to our precious newborn. We won't ever give birth in a hospital again.

The difference between you and I is, YOU KNOW BETTER! If you give in and allow something so terrible to happen to your intact son YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF! Trust me, your guilt will be worse than mine! Guilt is poison. It will ruin your life. You will carry this to your grave.

Hang in there. This will soon be a non-issue between the two of you. If it does happen, you can never get it back and he will be robbed of that choice over his own sex organ. Once its gone its gone forever. You CAN give him that choice over his own body. I'm not saying you or your dh should ever present to him that choice but rather if he decides on his own he wants to undergo this surgery AFTER experiencing what its like to have an intact penis as an adult then he will have the greatest pain medication available, he will feel empowered over HIS CHOICE, and his surgeon will have a grown organ to work with which is MUCH BETTER than something that hasn't grown into his potential yet.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Don't let him win because you will resent him for it for the rest of your life. Talk about harming a marriage.

Instead, tell him that since you are at a crossroads you both need to go to a counselor. Get some recommendations from friends (and from this board) and go talk about it.

As you said, you love him and it isn't worth ruining your marriage over but what type of marriage will you have if you feel like you didn't protect your son from harm and grow to blame your husband for it?

This is tough, but as parents and partners you'll have to work it out.


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## dancindoula (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:

I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks.
Would he be pushing for this if he didn't like the look of his _daughter's_ sex organ? Probably not. Would he be pushing for cosmetic surgery if he didn't like the look of his son's perfectly healthy nose/eyes/ears? Doubtful. Keep reminding yourself and him that this is only cosmetic surgery. You both love your son dearly and only want what's best for him so surgically altering him to make him meet some random ideal of beauty is beneath either of you. Send your son the lasting message that you love and accept him as he is, and that surgery is for helping sick people not for giving in to peer pressure about beauty. You can do this, Mama! Stay strong for your son - he will thank you for it.


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## Munki'sMom (Aug 25, 2004)

Um this is your baby! Over my dead body would somebody do something to MY baby I didn't want done!

Tell your DH to hold off on getting anything done until you both reach a compromise. Afterall, it CAN be done later, but it can't be taken back. kwim?

GL to you! My lil guy is intact and I'm so so happy we left it that way!!!!!







:


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!









can you honestly live with yourself if you allow this to happen?

This is your ds's life it is not yours or your dh's Dont give up mama just say NO. The one who has the most to loose here is your ds.

Your dh will learn to live with it but what if your ds is one of the ones that has major complications later on. What are you going to tell him when he asks you why? Your answer will be that you just gave up on fighting for him.

How do you think he will feel about that?


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!

I know this is tough, but forget about your husband and your MIL for a second and think about your son. I am a young guy who was circumcised, and wished I wasn't. This is not about the pressure you feel, this not about your feelings, or your husbands feelings, this is about your son. What if your son also feels violated like so many men in america? What will you tell him then? As a parent your number one job is to protect this baby, and this is your first test.
Remind yourself that in the end this is NOT not a choice between you or your husband. This is about allowing your son to make this choice for himself. Tell your husband that your not trying to "go behind his back" with this decision. You are saying this is your son decision, not "ours" its his body, let him decide.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

You are not alone. Many mom's here have faced this very issue. Some decided to not allow it no matter what. Some allowed their dh to "win" their stories of guilt and regret can be found in the "If you regret having your DS circed" thread there are several hundred stories there. Have you read it?

If not take the time and read it now. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=112410


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## jocelyndale (Aug 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants.


My husband didn't think too much about it, just assumed it was something that was done. Since I felt so strongly about our son not being mutilated, he was willing to go along with my feelings. I didn't think that was enough and made sure he had plenty of access to information about circumcision, parental attachment, etc. And *on his own*, he realized that he never wanted to inflict something like this on his child. I wanted him to realize how barbaric and horrible it is and to not just "go along", but to wholeheartedly agree with our decision to leave our son as nature intended.

My husband is a creature of logic, often to a fault, but it worked out in my son's favor.









Anyhow, if he'd been ruled by emotion, instead, I'd have just told him that the mere presence of his penis didn't necessarily qualify him to make this decision. After all, he has no prepuce. As an intact female, I DO have a prepuce. It's functional and I shudder at the thought of *not* having it. Therefore, I know what an intact prepuce can be and my experience holds more weight and there would be no amputation of a tiny newborn's genitalia.

I suppose it helps that I'm the crazy passionate one in our relationship. He's not emotionless, he's just not ruled by his heart quite as much. He prefers that I not be a harridan and I try not to steamroll him too often. I would *never* let him strip my child of his genital integrity, however. Fortunately, it became a non-issue.

There used to be information in this forum that was VERY useful and informative and that information made a HUGE difference in his feelings regarding circumcision. Sadly, I think those threads are now gone.







I haven't been able to find them in awhile.


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## bezark (Mar 17, 2009)

If you feel very strongly about this (and you should), please don't give in. It may be tough now, but it will be worth it for your son in the long run. And like others have said, the guilt will be unbearable.

My best friend had my God-son when she was very young. She didn't want to cut him, but her son's father felt very strongly that they should, and she did give in. After the circ, she cried uncontrollably every time she changed his diaper, and really, *really* resented her boyfriend for insisting on the circ which caused a lot of issues in their relationship.
When his penis started to heal, it was obvious that there was a problem. Gavin is 8 years old now and has had 11 surgeries to try to correct his botched circumcision (I haven't seen his penis since he was still in diapers, but at that point after 4-5 surgeries, it was still pretty heartbreaking), and my friend still has *horrible* guilt over allowing it to happen; so much so that when DH and I were arguing about whether or not to circ, she threatened to end our 23 year friendship if I gave in.

This is not to say that something like this would definitely happen to your son, but if it did, could you live with your decision? Just something to think about.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

OMG your poor nephew







: That much pain and the effect on his future sex life is so not worth a cosmetic proceedure.

BTW OP the numbers say that 10% of circs will result in complications either at the time of the circ or later in life. The number is higher than that considering they dont count some of the most common complications.


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

he has a penis but NOT a foreskin.
Watch this video: 




PLEASE, please protect your son. YOU are his mother and you are the one carrying him for 9 months in the womb. Ask him to tell you at least 3 valid reasons to get him circ'ed. If he seriously wants it done, I really hope he stands next to him while getting him mutilated, holding his hand, comforting him from the excruciating pain







Please, make sure he knows that most babies don't receive general anesthesia, some defecates and go into shock even with some topical anesthetic, some don't return to nurse or can't be held too close because of the wound. There has been studies that show that these babies don't look at the mother's face for some time. Please protect your son from genital mutilation, PLEASE...







:


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Ask your DH why your son should be deprived of the body he was born with, and the choice to change it as HE sees fit WHEN he becomes an adult. There is absolutely NO rational reason to perform cosmetic surgery on a newborn.

Hang in there and do not give in. As others have pointed out, the regret and guilt you will feel will be with you for the rest of your life, as will be the feeling of resentment toward your DH.


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## latinalonestar (Jan 26, 2008)

If she ever watches him make sure she knows not to manipulate his foreskin for any reason!


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## becca_howell (Jan 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Munki'sMom* 
Um this is your baby!

*It takes two to tango, and this is his son too. If I were you, I would continue to show him intact information and not go down without a "fight", but in a loving way.

If I were in your situation, I would bring up the thought that you are taking your son from a peaceful homebirth to the doctor's office to expose him to risks such as bleeding, infection, and difficulty breastfeeding.*


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

We talked about it again, more calmly, last night. He told me a lot of why he wants it done, which is mostly bc he is cut and he doesn't know what to say when his son asks him why they dont look the same. He would have to admit that something was wrong with either his or his sons penis. I keep telling him to let his son make the decision to have it cut. DH had to have the doc look at his penis once bc he thought he had an STD and he said he was soo embarrassed, he thinks that his son will be too embarrassed to see a doc and have it cut later in life, if he wants it done. In his mind our son is going to want it done. He cant imagine him growing up and being happy uncut. I kept asking him how he could look at his son right after he is born and not think everything about him is perfect. We finally ended on what I feel is a pretty good note, he wants to talk to the doc that would perform the surgery. I know that there are no medical communities that support so I am hoping that is what the doc will tell him. I talked to our ped about it, and he was neutral. Would not say if one way was better. He said that the only benefits are lowered UTI's but that is only during the first year of life and he mentioned it may lower the chance of penial cancer but that the risk is so low its not considered a benefit. Im hoping seeing the doc will help. We have at least agreed on that.


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## Ann-Marita (Sep 20, 2003)

Ask him if he's ever seen his father's penis, and if he did, did he worry about whether his looked like his father's.

Honestly, this doesn't usually come up. Adult humans have parts that look different from young humans - breasts, beards, our heads are smaller for our bodies, etc. That's normal. The kid, if he notices at all, will most likely notice that daddy has lots of HAIR in that area, and that he doesn't.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Do they (your DS & DH) plan on spending a lot of time naked, comparing each other? I think the "look like father" argument is just ridiculous, and not a vaild reason to circ. What if they have different eye color? Hair color?


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

show him this: 



 this was from Fox


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## ScootchsMom (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ann-Marita* 
Ask him if he's ever seen his father's penis, and if he did, did he worry about whether his looked like his father's.

Honestly, this doesn't usually come up. Adult humans have parts that look different from young humans - breasts, beards, our heads are smaller for our bodies, etc. That's normal. The kid, if he notices at all, will most likely notice that daddy has lots of HAIR in that area, and that he doesn't.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama~to~my~bunch* 
Do they (your DS & DH) plan on spending a lot of time naked, comparing each other? I think the "look like father" argument is just ridiculous, and not a vaild reason to circ. What if they have different eye color? Hair color?











Men and boys are not standing around comparing their genitals! Just as I am not going to sit and compare my genitals to my mother's or my daughter's.

If, for some reason, your son did ask why daddy's is different, why couldn't you just say that "doctor's used to tell you to circumcise, but that they don't anymore because it isn't necessary". I guarantee the kid won't care after that!

My mom got cut with all 4 of her births, and I won't with my birth, that doesn't make me feel like less of a woman, nor does she. Times change, science changes all the time, and we can't be afraid to admit that what was done in the past was incorrect.

As for your MIL, why is she so interested in your son's penis? This is between you and your husband and you need to tell her to butt out. What happens when she starts telling you to wean and give formula because SHE thinks its a good idea? Or she puts baby to CIO in a crib because that is what she thinks is best?


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ScootchsMom* 









Men and boys are not standing around comparing their genitals! Just as I am not going to sit and compare my genitals to my mother's or my daughter's.

If, for some reason, your son did ask why daddy's is different, why couldn't you just say that "doctor's used to tell you to circumcise, but that they don't anymore because it isn't necessary". I guarantee the kid won't care after that!

My mom got cut with all 4 of her births, and I won't with my birth, that doesn't make me feel like less of a woman, nor does she. Times change, science changes all the time, and we can't be afraid to admit that what was done in the past was incorrect.

As for your MIL, why is she so interested in your son's penis? This is between you and your husband and you need to tell her to butt out. What happens when she starts telling you to wean and give formula because SHE thinks its a good idea? Or she puts baby to CIO in a crib because that is what she thinks is best?

Lots of great points you've got there!

I don't understand the "Look like daddy" argument AT ALL!

I'd be traumatized if my mother came to me as a child and said, "Hey look at me (down there). We look alike don't we?"

That would be REALLY CREEEPY!


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## dancindoula (Jun 20, 2005)

Read this post again! *Seriously.* We'll wait.....................

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ScootchsMom* 









Men and boys are not standing around comparing their genitals! Just as I am not going to sit and compare my genitals to my mother's or my daughter's.

If, for some reason, your son did ask why daddy's is different, why couldn't you just say that "doctor's used to tell you to circumcise, but that they don't anymore because it isn't necessary". I guarantee the kid won't care after that!

My mom got cut with all 4 of her births, and I won't with my birth, that doesn't make me feel like less of a woman, nor does she. Times change, science changes all the time, and we can't be afraid to admit that what was done in the past was incorrect.

As for your MIL, why is she so interested in your son's penis? This is between you and your husband and you need to tell her to butt out. What happens when she starts telling you to wean and give formula because SHE thinks its a good idea? Or she puts baby to CIO in a crib because that is what she thinks is best?

ScootchesMom is absolutely correct. *IF* your son were ever (and that's a pretty darn big IF) to be in a comparison situation with his daddy's penis (







: ) the only answer necessary is the truth: "when your daddy was a baby doctors used to think foreskins should be cut off, but now we know that's not needed so we left yours alone." The end. No blame, no shame, no trauma. Just the simple truth.


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancindoula* 
the only answer necessary is the truth: "when your daddy was a baby doctors used to think foreskins should be cut off, but now we know that's not needed so we left yours alone." The end. No blame, no shame, no trauma. Just the simple truth.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Ya know...if it's really important to your DP that his son look like him, your DP can always restore...he would need to wear an ice pack at all times though in an attempt to shrink his penis down to size and he would of course need to man wax all his pubic hair...or you could get the babe a pubic hair toupee

Do you see how ridiculous the look like daddy argument is? Except the restoring part...that could be a good idea.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Have him watch the ben and teller video. I think it's on Youtube. I have a friend who was convinced not to circ her 3rd son after having both of her first son's circed. That video did the trick. Aparently, it's about how much money is made on circ's and the risks, pain, procedure, etc. I haven't watched it, but heard a lot about it.

Dont' give in...especially not to your MIL. You're going to have to set boundaries with her and giving in here will make it much, much harder to set those boundaries. Your husband shouldn't have you pitted against his mother...that's setting you all up for a horrible relationship for the rest of your lives! You're husband made a huge mistake bringing in his mother.


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## jocelyndale (Aug 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancindoula* 
the only answer necessary is the truth: "when your daddy was a baby doctors used to think foreskins should be cut off, but now we know that's not needed so we left yours alone." The end. No blame, no shame, no trauma. Just the simple truth.


I suggested this option to my husband, in case our son ever asks.

My husband said, "No way. I'm claiming it was a tragic ice skating accident. That way I don't have to discuss it OR take him ice skating."

My husband is normally graceful, but a complete klutz on skates.


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## becca_howell (Jan 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jocelyndale* 
I suggested this option to my husband, in case our son ever asks.

My husband said, "No way. I'm claiming it was a tragic ice skating accident. That way I don't have to discuss it OR take him ice skating."

My husband is normally graceful, but a complete klutz on skates.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jocelyndale* 
I suggested this option to my husband, in case our son ever asks.

My husband said, "No way. I'm claiming it was a tragic ice skating accident. That way I don't have to discuss it OR take him ice skating."

My husband is normally graceful, but a complete klutz on skates.











That is awesome!


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## super mamabug (Oct 29, 2006)

Arguing this and protecting your child is never going to hurt your marriage more than allowing this to happen. I would always see it and think of my husband as someone who hurt my son and that would destroy me over time. Even if it wasn't a I'll leave him if..... kind of thing, over time it would destroy us.
Seriously, I asked my DH if he knew if his father was cut or not, he has no idea. I wouldn't worry too much about that. Plus it's more and more uncommon. It's more likely for your son to ask why you did it, then why you didn't.
Good luck, I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but this is THE issue that you cannot back down on. It's looking the other way through abuse. I hope you can bring him around, but if you can't please protect your child anyway.


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## JJ'sMom (Mar 11, 2005)

I love the information and advice you have received here already. I am glad that your hubby is wiling to listen and the fighting is less.

I do not buy into the "Look like Dad" argument.

DS was asking about his penis last night and I mentioned that he would be able to retract it one day just like Daddy can and he was shocked that he might look like daddy one day. Kinda grossed out too.

As for MIL...I wish you all the best in your relationship with her. Especially with these sensitive issues.


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## Munchkinmaker (Jun 8, 2005)

DH is is circumcised but his dad and 2 brothers are not. (He was born in the 70's and MIL didn't question the procedure, it was routine at that point around here... She heard him screaming and saw the aftermath and didn't allow it to happen to another one of her boys). We chose to leave our boys intact. None of our boys have ever compared what they have to their father but my oldest did see my nephew get changed once and was horrified and had genuine concern "EEEE! What happened to Nate's penis!!?!??". I told him he was circumcised and asked him to leave it at that until later since my nephew and sister were sitting right there (I don't agree with my sister's choice but at the same time, it's done and I don't want my nephew to feel bad about himself). When we got in the car it was the first thing he asked me about. I explained that some people feel it's better to circumcise their baby after they are born. He asked what that meant. I said the Dr. forces the skin off the tip (this bothered him because he isn't retracted yet and understand that this would in fact, REALLY hurt) and cuts it off (I thought he would faint when I said that LOL)... He was mortified. I asked him if he was happy we decided to leave his alone and he said he was very very happy


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
Well dh and me just got into a huge argument about it agian! *I dont know what to do any more!*! He left for work and I am left crying. Argument put on hold until another day!

You protect your son at all costs! For me this would be a make or break issue. No way would I ever let my DH have cosmetic surgery performed on my son just because he wants to. I would leave before that happens. Please do NOT back down on this!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

edit


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## super mamabug (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
So you will sacrifice your son for your marriage. Wow. That's cold. Have you even showed him ANY info about it. Or is your son's genital integrity just not that important to you?

Hold on, she obviously came here for support. Attacking her is not going to change anything. She is going through a difficult thing and a little respect would be nice. Even wives of men who hurt their children take a while to come to see it that way. You'll have make of a difference by supporting and offering advice than attacking.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

edit


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## super mamabug (Oct 29, 2006)

I agree with you, but unfortunately not everyone does and it will be easier to win them over with kindness (when possible







)

ETA Thank you for your clarification, I appreciate your points and I know we are on the same side here. I jumped to conclusions.


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## CellarDoor (Nov 22, 2005)

Has your dh seen a circ video yet? I think that is mandatory before you can proceed.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

One more thought - I would much rather explain to my son why he was left intact , and how , when he was an adult, he could get circumcised if he wanted. How would one explain to him why you let the Dr cut off the most sensitive part of his penis, and his foreskin was gone for ever?


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

My almost 5 yo has never noticed a difference between him and his dad. He didn't even know there was a difference until he developed a UTI and each doc I took him to kept suggesting circumcision.

I had to explain to him that he was intact and what circumcision was. He didn't even ask why his dad was circ'd and he wasn't. He just said "thanks mom and dad for not letting them cut off my penis."







: (for the record after he said that I told him circ didn't mean cutting off the whole penis but cutting off the foreskin - he didn't see a difference and was just glad to have it all whole.)

If you make an issue of dad and son being different then it is an issue. If you just do as others have said "when daddy was born circ was recommended and when you were born we know now that it isn't medically necessary" the kid just thinks "okay" and goes on to doing something else. No big deal.

Sounds like DH is coming around - keep up the good work and I wish you both the best.


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## angelachristin (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New_Natural_Mom* 
I would tell my MIL that it can't be done without mother's permission and presence and if it was in any way attempted that you would call the police, file charges, and sue. Not to mention divorce her son in a heartbeat and then she will *never* get visitation.

That is pretty extreme. If it were me, I would just look her straight in the face and tell her that your son's penis is none of her business and it is unhealthy and making you uncomfortable that she is taking such an interest in it.

This. If I was in your shoes, I would honestly sit down with MIL and tell her calmly, "I am going to tell you this one time. My son's penis is none of your business. If you continue to try to make it your business and attempt anything without my consent, I will call the police and have you arrested. I am 100% serious about this, so please listen to me and leave it at that."


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## Twinklefeet (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
Ya know...if it's really important to your DP that his son look like him, your DP can always restore...he would need to wear an ice pack at all times though in an attempt to shrink his penis down to size and he would of course need to man wax all his pubic hair...or you could get the babe a pubic hair toupee

Do you see how ridiculous the look like daddy argument is? Except the restoring part...that could be a good idea.
























OMG!!! I can't stop laughing after I read that!!!! May I use that argument with friends??!!


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefeet* 






















OMG!!! I can't stop laughing after I read that!!!! May I use that argument with friends??!!

Absolutely...A friend of mine actually put together a kit for her DH with a TLC tugger, a waxing kit and an Ice pack.


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
Absolutely...A friend of mine actually put together a kit for her DH with a TLC tugger, a waxing kit and an Ice pack.

laughup







:


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
He told me a lot of why he wants it done, which is mostly bc he is cut and he doesn't know what to say when his son asks him why they dont look the same. He would have to admit that something was wrong with either his or his sons penis. I keep telling him to let his son make the decision to have it cut. DH had to have the doc look at his penis once bc he thought he had an STD and he said he was soo embarrassed, he thinks that his son will be too embarrassed to see a doc and have it cut later in life, if he wants it done. In his mind our son is going to want it done. He cant imagine him growing up and being happy uncut.

With a lot of guys, the circ issue is uncomfortable to discuss because they think about their own penis during the discussion (be that intact or cut). What you need to clearly express to your husband is this is not about what is "better" but simply about offering a choice to your son.

If your son REALLY wishes he could be circumcised, he will find a way of talking to a doctor. (because I sure as hell would find a way of talking to a doctor if there was a way I could completely undo my circumcision).

Also tell your husband, if your son ever asks him why their penises look different he can say, "well we wanted you to have control over your own body, and for you to make choices for yourself" or "we had no reason to, because you are perfect as you are, but when I was born they thought otherwise"

This is not about "better" just about noticing that their is nothing wrong with differences, and about celebrating choice


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## SilvanaRose (Feb 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!

I was at this point the other day. I got into a huge arguement over circ with my DP. We don't even have a son yet. I basically told him in the coldest most disturbing voice and manner I could muster up that "There's no ****ing way I will let you chop off our sons penis. You will have to pry him from my arms and do it yourself.....I bet you couldn't watch it!"

I told him every reason I could think of not to. He is just as stubborn as me for wanting it done but for what he says is his belief. I said "I think it's disgusting that we are even argueing over this. You will not win this one with me. It's not your penis, you can't decide and that's that."

We finally agreed to disagree. He says fine we will let him decide when he's older. He's trying to tell me we will have to compromise on other parenting practices then too. I can't wait to find out what else I have to stand up for lol....I'm not allowed to bf lol lol lol jk


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
When dh got home this morning we argued about it again. He has no reason for wanting except that he is a man with a penis and thats what he wants. He feels I have gone behind his back and made the decision with out him. I have tried to tell him its not medically needed, not one medical community recomends, he doesnt care, he wants it done, and I think its pretty much because of looks. I tired of arguing about the whole thing so I just said fine, you and your mom win, and walked away. I dont know what to do. I have tried imagining what it would be like to change his diaper every day and look at it and it just tears me up!!! I hate what this is doing to our married and relationship. I will not leave my dh for this like some have suggested they would do, I love him but Im dont know what to do!

No, he and his mom do not win, you get to decide this one, period. Unless both parents want it, it's a no. Be firm, tell him, it is not going to happen. He doesn't have to agree. Tell him it is fine to have an intact boy, your son will be healthy and great, end of story.

Do not compromise yourself, it's not about making other people happy, it is about what is right for your baby.


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

Well things between us have been much better. Much less stress between the two of us. I havent made any appointment to meet a urologist yet, but we have been busy. Today we were at his moms and our girls saw him pee standing up for the first time. He usually sits at home. It was very funny to see the looks on their face that daddy could stand and pee. Well when we all came out of the bathroom his mom started getting snotty and just said "I dont want to talk about it" Meaning there was something she would like to say about our son and circ. but wanted to act like a b****. She was kind of snotty the rest of the time we were there, which wasnt long. DH didnt catch on to what she was saying but I did. Any way when we got in the car I told him what his mom meaning and all he said was "Oh ok I get it know" I told dh that now matter what we decide its none of his moms business and he needs to tell her that. I dont feel like its my place, although I will say something if I have to. I also told dh that I dont expect him to agree with me that circ is wrong, just to allow his son to decide for himself. I had been wanting to say that to him over the last couple of days but didnt know when.

I dont understand why his mom is sooo for this. I feel like if we dont get it done she plans on treating us and the baby badly as a way of making us want to get it done. dh thinks his mom is afraid our son will get made fun of and not fit it. I told him the only way our son will feel different is if she makes him feel that way and if she does she wont be allowed around him. Thats not fair to him. I didnt think it would be a big deal after he is born and diaper changes but now I am really afraid to allow her to change his diaper. I have no trust for her that she will pay any attention to me on how to care for it.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm sorry hon. This lady sounds like she's got some issues...

I would never let her change your son's diaper - she might just try to sabotage things, you know.

I sure hope you get this worked out with dh and she butts out.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 

I dont understand why his mom is sooo for this.


Is it possible that she feels that by not cutting your son you are saying that she made a bad choice?

If your son is intact and fine, she just might have to come to the realization that she mutilated her own child for no reason.


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

I really dont know what her issue is. She grew up with two brothers and they were not cut. She once told me that her brothers would walk around with their penis's hanging out and that it was gross. She told dh that her brothers were in a swim class in school and they had to swim naked (I find this soo far fetched) and all of her brother's class mates made fun of him. (She says she also had to take said naked swim class, I think she is mixing dreams with reality)

Part of me would like to just go talk to her brother and see how happy he is. But we are not close with that family and it would be very ackward, and I am afraid that if he was retracted too soon and had problems they will think he had problems bc he was intact not bc of improper care.

I have an uncle that is intact and talked to him once and he was uncomfortable but told me he has had issues and would have rather been circ. My aunt later said that there were times he could not perform in the bed room bc it was painful and he saw docs for it. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was retracted too soon causing problems later, and makes me wonder if problems were that bad why didnt he choose to get circ???


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Please show this to both your MIL and your DH.

It's a PSA by Dr. Dean Edell and I just LOVED it. I can't imagine too many people could watch it and not be totally re-educated.

I'm really loving the one that a PP posted, too:




It talks about a law on the Canadian books that probably shows that infant circumcision is actually against the law and why (because there are no medical benefits and therefore the baby himself should get to decide). Fascinating!


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

It is possible for her to find a doctor to do it. My MIL did this. I would highly recommend not having her as a baby sitter. My MIL tricked people in to thinking she had custody of neice when she did not. Also, she tried it with my son. She wanted him baptised in her church so she told the church that my son, a newborn, was living with her. The priest fell for it I have been told. But I never ever left him alone with her so she never got away with it. But she did have a whole baptism planned and scheduled and everything.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
It is possible for her to find a doctor to do it. My MIL did this. I would highly recommend not having her as a baby sitter. My MIL tricked people in to thinking she had custody of neice when she did not. Also, she tried it with my son. She wanted him baptised in her church so she told the church that my son, a newborn, was living with her. The priest fell for it I have been told. But I never ever left him alone with her so she never got away with it. But she did have a whole baptism planned and scheduled and everything.










She planned to have your baby circ'ed behind your back?

Oh, heads would roll.


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
I really dont know what her issue is. She grew up with two brothers and they were not cut. She once told me that her brothers would walk around with their penis's hanging out and that it was gross. She told dh that her brothers were in a swim class in school and they had to swim naked (I find this soo far fetched) and all of her brother's class mates made fun of him. (She says she also had to take said naked swim class, I think she is mixing dreams with reality)


Actually its true, that as late as the 1950's it was not uncommon for boys to swim naked in gym classes. And its not surprising they made fun of her brothers, not only was that a time where nearly all boys were circumcised, there was no "gay fear" like exists today for American teen males. Although American culture has changed A LOT in the last 50 years, and not surprisingly, so has conditions in the boys locker room.

Quote:

I have an uncle that is intact and talked to him once and he was uncomfortable but told me he has had issues and would have rather been circ. My aunt later said that there were times he could not perform in the bed room bc it was painful and he saw docs for it. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was retracted too soon causing problems later, and makes me wonder if problems were that bad why didnt he choose to get circ???
The problems boys and men face is not only avoiding circumcision, but also trying to find medical care which would not do them more harm then good. Especially when your uncle grew up the American medical establishment knew nearly nothing about the foreskin, and most of the male doctors never remember having a foreskin themselves. Unfortunately, your uncle's situation is not surprising.
But its clear this is an American problem, not a foreskin problem. When you look at men world wide (the vast majority of who are intact) they live completely healthy lives with no problems with their foreskins.

Protect your son from all these problems he does not need to ever face, and HIM decide if he wants to be circumcised when he can make the decision for himself, because in the end, no one else's opinions matter.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

I don't have any advice, but I would like to say that I think it is down right creepy that she is so obsessed with her grandsons penis. Can you imagine if the tables were turned and a grandfather was so obsessed with what was happening with his granddaughters vagina? It is time for her to mind her own business. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how invasive and in your face she will be when ds is born.
Your job as a mama is to protect your child. I know it sounds extreme, but if you need to keep him away from those who want to harm you baby (MIL) you do it! She is too into this and I wouldn't put it past her to try something (which will more than likely be arranging with your hubby to get it done behind your back...you better warn him what will happen if he does that.)


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## journeyq (Mar 28, 2007)

be really really careful! my mother took my daughter into her local health dept and had her "caught up" on her vacs by saying she was her mother, and giving and signing my name, within 2 weeks journey stopped signing talking walking eye contact, everything, i found out and went to the police, but of course I was the one doing something wrong by not vaxing. If someone could do that then they can have your son circ to. luckily with alot of time journey is a perfectly functioning 9 yr old and my mother hasnt been around in 7 yrs.


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## becca_howell (Jan 3, 2009)

*I worried about my mother trying to retract behind my back until I told her that's what my doctor said to do. Sometimes well-meaning grandmothers can be nasty little.... anyway. I wouldn't trust my MIL to change DS's diaper because she still retracts her intact 5YO grandson! (despite all my telling her it's not what to do).

I'm glad things are better with your DH. Hopefully he can see behind his mother's conniving, backbiting, vengeful attitude. She does not seem like a very happy person to be around! Good luck!!!*


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## heamae (Nov 9, 2005)

Good news!!!! I accidently left this thread up Sat. night and dh happened to read it. Sun he told me he was upset and felt very attacked by everyone on here and that it is our decision. He also said he had some questions but the kids were around and he didnt want to bring it up with them around. Well I prayed about it a lot last night and then the kids were busy and I asked him what he wanted to talk about. He said he looked at some of the videos that were on here and didnt understand retracting and how pee comes out. I went over things with him. Explained that we need to do nothing until our son can retract on his own. He worried what would happen if our son retracted it on his own. I said it would hurt and he would stop. He understand that, like bending your arm back, you will stop when it hurts.







He agreed that the main issue would be making sure others dont retract him and I agreed we would just make things very clear to any one that changes him that they do NOTHING. I am usually the one that does 90% of diaper changes any ways so I dont think that will be a problem He finally AGRRED we would leave our son intact. He says he is not happy about it but he doesnt want to fight. I told him I understand and I dont expect him to be anti circ but allow our son to decide. I feel in love with him all over again and he has no idea!!! Im so happy and really feel praying about it last night before talking helped soo much and opened his heart!!! Thanks for all of your support!!!!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Great update







Usually the man will come around in most cases. Only a few are so closed minded they just cant make the leap.

Enjoy the rest of your pg


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Congratulations for your son! Be sure and tell DH how proud you are of him and that you know it was difficult for him.

And, be prepared if there ever are any problems for your son to find the info you need to keep him whole. My son has had a yeast infection that was easily treated but looked AWFUL. Cleared up within 10 days but if I didn't know any better I can see how I would have freaked out and listened to any old doc that he needed to be cut. He's also been through a UTI that's taken forever to clear up. After many docs said to cut him we've finally been able to treat it just fine without resorting to surgery.

Sometimes there are problems and it is a never ending battle with most of the medical community. Preparation is the key - I guess I'm saying don't let your guard down.


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## super mamabug (Oct 29, 2006)

Ok, I'm a little weepy. I'm so happy for your son and you. Good job mama. The hardest part of parenting is these battles. When we know what is right for our children we can't back down. You will fight in ways you didn't know you could. You have faced your first battle. And go DH! It isn't easy to give in. Make sure he gets credit for that.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

GREAT NEWS







!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heamae* 
I really dont know what her issue is.

I bet she feels that if you leave your son intact it will automatically mean that she had done something very wrong to her son (which she did) and she just doesn't want to face that. Instead, she'd rather had her grandson mutilated as a proof that it *has to be done* and therefore, what she did to her son was right.


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

That really is wonderful news!


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

:







:







:







:







:

I am so happy for you, you have no idea!!!


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

oops double!


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm a Little late to the party....lol. I'm so happy for your outcome! I think it's awesome that you were able to communicate well over this issue, and come to a resolution that you both can live with! How exciting for your baby to be added to the growing number of intact boys! Woo Hoo!

Make sure you tell DH how happy us MDCers are for him! Maybe he won't feel quite so attacked here lol.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

hazzah!

And for when you leave the thread open again.

Thanks for coming around DH! Your son will love it.


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