# What's your view on sex?



## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

This is one of those "WWYD" type threads for when our children are older but how do you feel about sex? Do you plan to teach abstinence until marriage, or are you going to follow a more non-traditional approach and educate but not practice abstinence? My dh and I don't believe that abstinence works nor is it the best solution so we plan to educate our girls on safe sex, etc. and let them make their own choices. We are not a shy family when it comes to sex so I know we will follow through with this.

I believe that people need to have more then one sexual encounter in their life. I could not imagine not having mine. Granted, I don't have very many but I'm grateful that I got to "test the waters" sort a speak







Same with my dh. We also believe that you should live with someone before marriage so that kinda blows the traditional way of thinking out of the water too.

So, what do you think?


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I pretty much agree. I don't know if my kids are going ot have sex or not, and I certainly can't forbid them. So if they are planning on doing it, at least I am going to give them the necessary information so they can protect themselves, especially since I have two daughters.


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## Mama2 '05'06 (Mar 5, 2006)

Abstinance until marriage. No living together before marriage. But then we're from and in a very religious community where that isn't hard to teach b/c that's what everyone teaches. Sure, there are a few couples who step outside those boundaries and have sex before marriage but they are not many and end up marrying very soon after that happens. So I believe that a healthy sex life doesn't have to include several different partners, and that it should occur only within the bounds of marriage.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

I teach that love, marriage and babies are three independent decisions.

So, right now dd says she wants to marry her (female) best friend. Usually she says she doesn't want children, but some days she says she'll "go to the doctor and buy sperm for a baby."









I have suggested strongly that she wait until after college - until she can support a family - before having any children. And I hope she'll wait almost that long for sex, whether with a male or female partner. But I do plan on giving my "approval" for contraception pretty early, just in case.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I plan to teach abstinence and safe sex. I don't have a problem with sex or having sex, but I do think that abstinence or safe sex are very important because there are so many STD's.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
I do think that abstinence or safe sex are very important because there are so many STD's.









Yeah. I will support her no matter what, but I really hope my dd is lesbian (if sexual with anyone) because of the much lower risk of STDs and unplanned pregnancy.


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## momma-d (Feb 2, 2007)

Well, my children are very small, so this is a long way off...but...I personally don't think expecting or teaching abstinence is either realistic or effective. We plan to educate our children about safe, consensual sex and let them make their own decisions. I hope that by having an open, honest and respectful relationship we will always be able to talk about anything and everything, including sex, when the time comes. I do want them to love the people that they have sex with, though. That would be my caveat...


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Abstinence till marriage. In my family, there is no promotion of "safe" sex, because that would be promoting something we believe is wrong. For us, the only acceptable safe sex is abstinence.

No living together before marriage. As parents we won't approve of that.

And as someone who had several sex partners before marriage, I highly resent and regret that period of my life. It's the one thing I wish I could redo, so I'm of the other opinion (opposite the OP) that multiple partners isn't ideal or healthy.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

We will teach our children the principles of our religious beliefs, which include the principle that sex is AWESOME but designed to be enjoyed only between people married to each other. What my children choose to do with that information is their own choice and not really my business. I will always support them and be there to talk to them about their decisions. In my church and in our church culture, most of the teens adhere to the abstinence/marriage guidelines and it's not abnormal in our miniculture. At the same time, some teens choose a different way and they are still loved and accepted.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

i will teach abstinence. I was a virgin on my wedding night. I am far more against contraception and ABC than I am sex outside of marriage though so I will definitely not allow them to take birth control. So i will be sure to reinforce the fact that sex(even with birth control) leads to babies. and let them know what a huge responsibility both are. and i hope they will understand Gods wisdom in people being married before having sex and creating children.


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## Mommaof 4 (Jul 14, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
We will teach our children the principles of our religious beliefs, which include the principle that sex is AWESOME but designed to be enjoyed only between people married to each other. What my children choose to do with that information is their own choice and not really my business. I will always support them and be there to talk to them about their decisions.


Very well put, this is what we believe as well.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

You know, I'm not entirely sure.

I know that we'll provide tons of information and be very very clear that we expect him to use condoms - not just any form of birth control, but condoms, unless he is in a committed and monogamous relationship. I'm pretty open and not all that into linking sex with sin or marriage or putting a value on virginity, and I don't care if my son is gay or bi or whatever.

That said, I really do hope that we also teach my son a lot about respecting himself and respecting his partner(s). I hope that we can teach him to proceed with life's many pleasures and ways of connecting in a loving and thoughtful manner. I'm not sure biology will be on our side here, but that's still what I intend to try to teach him.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Another vote for abstinance being unrealistic & impracticle. We have two boys, and I definetly see me/us handing them condoms at some point (14? 15?) and saying 'look, we know your going to have sex. Just don't be an idiot and wear one of these, OK?'. DH & I lived together for virtually our entire relationship (met in the bahamas, he essentially moved into the girls' cabin (3 girls in one cabin, 6 boys in the boys' but same side... all the other guys were jealous but very understanding; then we lived in the dorms & I had a nutty roomate, his was cool and we all got along great (especially after he realized *I* was a computer geek too and we'd sit and chat about computer stuff...), then we rented a house together for the next year; then I moved to spain for a year, came back and worked at the same YMCA camp together, where I got pregnant with DS1...). Heck, we're only married really cause' we wanted to be able to live together on camp, and the requirement for THAT was that we get married... So. Yeah. I just don't see 'absitance only' as being the least bit realistic for ANYONE. I mean, really. I can't imagine marrying someone, and expecting to spend my whole life with them, w/o having had sex with them. Sex is such a HUGE part of any relationship... to have not had sex with the person I was planning to spend my whole life with just seems... counter productive, almost.


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## katiesk (Nov 6, 2007)

i think there is a big benefit to talking about the ideals of having a sexual relationship: waiting for emotional maturity, relationship stability, love, commitment, age, etc. and helping kids understand why those things are important. however, i think that it is also important to be smart. even if a kid has abstinence as their ideal, it does not mean that they won't make a different choice in one moment, therefore having an awareness of safe sex and how to obtain bc should be a priority.

for me...i think that i would make sure i always had condoms in my house and that my kids (and their friends?) knew where to find them without having to awkwardly ask.

i would expect that my relationship with my children would be such that they would be able to talk to me frankly about such things...but regardless, i would be smart enough to realize that whether i know it or not, they probably have the opportunity to have sex, so i'll give them the opportunity to easily make that safe sex.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

We believe that sex belongs inside marriage. It is a spiritual matter for us and like all spiritual decisions it is ultimately their choice. I will educate them about sex, safe sex, reproduction and different birth control methods. What they choose in their life is there own.


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## SarahGuinn (Mar 6, 2002)

I plan on continuing the course that we've begun with the fundamentals of procreation, science and anatomy based facts. When they're older, they'll know that without a doubt, sex makes babies, so if you're going to have sex you run that risk. We will provide them with information out their ears as they grow and protection before they ask for it, probably at 13. We're always talking about respecting people's bodies now (and earlier) in that we don't wrestle with friends when they don't want to and you don't spar with tai kwon do partners until their ready, etc, and the respecting bodies conversation will just adapt as they age.

I was sexually active at 12. While I wish I had waited until I was a little older and familiar with my body so I had enjoyed it more, there's not much I would change because it's part of who I am today.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

We're not teaching abstinence; we're teaching about safe sex. I have no doubt most, if not all, of my kids will have sex before marriage...because the overwhelming majority of people do. I want them to know the precautions they need to take to avoid diseases/unplanned pregnancy. I personally think it's pretty silly to assume your kids won't have sex before marriage just because you tell them not to.


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## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

How do I feel about sex? I am a pretty big fan of safe, consensual sex that is pleasurable for both people for people that are old enough to engage in it responsibly.

What does that mean for my children? It means that they will get the straight talk about sex, we will have frank discussions about safety, readiness, the risks, and how to listen to one's heart. When the time comes that my children plan to be sexually active they will have access to birth control and a safe place to have sex.

For me, waiting until marriage was absolutely not a choice that i was interested in. If my children would like to wait then I am fully in support of that, but I will definitly not be pushing them in that direction. I know too many "good Christian kids" from my youth group that were very, very sexually active without their parent's knowledge, and a lot of mistakes were made because they did not have the education and access to safe birth control and safe spots. I don't want that to happen with my children.


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## LaLaLaLa (Oct 29, 2007)

I want my kids (one DD, one DS) to love and revere their own bodies. A healthy body is a fabulous thing that can do so many great things for you. Sex is one of those great things, and I want my kids to know that sex is, and should be, amazing.

I'm not religious and I absolutely don't believe that sex is something that should happen only within marriage. I'm so glad I'd already had some sexual experience when I started dating DH, and I'm glad he had some experience, too. Really glad.







If my kids want to live with someone before getting married, I'm fine with that. If they want to have babies without being married, I'm okay with that, too.

I do think that sex should be something a person shouldn't look back on with embarrassment. For that reason, I'd encourage my kids to think carefully about their sexual choices and not make any rash decisions. I hope to stress to them that there is always a choice and they should neither pressure a partner nor allow themselves to be pressured. When they do decide to engage in sexual activity, I'd hope they will own that decision proudly.

I'll discuss and help to acquire contraception. Unlike many people, I will stress to my son more than my daughter the ultimate consequences of action. Both kids have similar risk of STDs, which we'll discuss. However, if a pregnancy were to result, DD would have choices. I'll point out to DS that he would have NO choices. If his lover becomes pregnant, she is the one who will decide whether to keep a baby or not. And if she decides to keep it, DS will be paying child support and providing emotional support for eighteen years. I'll try to impress upon him that it's a very long time to deal with what might be a very short and hormonal decision.

My kids are currently 5 and 3.5, though, so I have plenty of time to revise my views, if I choose.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Seasons* 
I teach that love, marriage and babies are three independent decisions.


I agree. I think it is so important to keep an open dialogue. I want my children to be able to come to me. If they feel they can't come to me for whatever reason, I hope they have a good support person who would take them to teh doctor for birth control or abortion, if necessary.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

No, we will not be teaching abstinence. Not only do I think abstinence is unrealistic, I don't think it's a desirable goal.
I plan to teach my kids safety and responsibility. DH and I are pro-life, so a big part of our teaching will be that sex shouldn't happen unless the people involved are prepared for and able to be parents to the product that can potentially be created by having sex.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
How do I feel about sex? I am a pretty big fan of safe, consensual sex that is pleasurable for both people for people that are old enough to engage in it responsibly.

What does that mean for my children? It means that they will get the straight talk about sex, we will have frank discussions about safety, readiness, the risks, and how to listen to one's heart. When the time comes that my children plan to be sexually active they will have access to birth control and a safe place to have sex.

Yep. That is us to a T. I hope my kids meet other kids raised like this. Guilt, shame and such should never, ever, cross paths with sex. Lots of consensual safe sex is great with us.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I agree. I think it is so important to keep an open dialogue. I want my children to be able to come to me. If they feel they can't come to me for whatever reason, I hope they have a good support person who would take them to teh doctor for birth control or abortion, if necessary.

I think about that too!







Especially as a solo parent. I have literally introduced my dd to the counselor and nurse at school (one male, one female) and told her a few times that they are her safe people to tell ANYTHING to: someone bothering her at school, something confusing at daycare, mad at me. And I've even described how to tell her teacher she needs to go to the school office, and then at the office just say "I need to talk to the nurse." It's a K-8 school so those folks should be in place for her for a while, and they are mandated reporters in case it's real trouble.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
We're not teaching abstinence; we're teaching about safe sex. I have no doubt most, if not all, of my kids will have sex before marriage...because the overwhelming majority of people do. I want them to know the precautions they need to take to avoid diseases/unplanned pregnancy. I personally think it's pretty silly to assume your kids won't have sex before marriage just because you tell them not to.

This is pretty much how I feel.

Also, I would likely encourage them to live with their partner BEFORE making the huge commitment of marriage. It actually seems backwards to me to vow to spend the rest of your life with another human being when you haven't even lived under the same roof for a good amount of time. JMO, of course







.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Safe sex talks here. I believe everyone should have the choice and the education to decide for themselves. I'm not above handing out condoms or getting my DDs on BC if that is what they want. I was never able to have an open dialogue with my parents, instead the exact same week I turned 16 and was able to drive, I drove myself to the health clinic and got put on BC.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
Also, I would likely encourage them to live with their partner BEFORE making the huge commitment of marriage. It actually seems backwards to me to vow to spend the rest of your life with another human being when you haven't even lived under the same roof for a good amount of time. JMO, of course







.

Yes, to that!


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Per our faith, we believe that sex is reserved for marriage, and we believe there are many reasons that is a good rule of thumb even outside our religious beliefs.

We will teach our children our moral reasoning for reserving sexual intimacy for marriage. We will teach them that sex is a wonderful gift from God, but like anything, if misused or abused, can cause tremendous damage.
As dh and I were both virgins when we married, and we have many friends who were even stricter in their relational limitations before marriage (and have lovely marriages now







) we feel that it is a reasonable, attainable, and desireable goal.

We will also teach our children the facts of reproduction, what contraception is, why people use it, what it doesn't protect against, and what the consequences of contraceptive failure are. And what abortion is, why people do it, and what the potential repercussions are. My parents are doctors and my husband is a nurse, so they will very likely get the ugly, gorey details (pics included) about venereal diseases, probably over the dinner table in random doctor-family conversation rather than a sit-down lecture. You wouldn't believe the stuff my family discusses over curry and rice.

We will answer questions that are asked, age appropriately.

We will teach and model a healthy love relationship, teach them what consititutes a healthy person and what kind of character qualitites contribute to lifelong and stable loving relationships, teach them how to spot red flags in a relationship, and I *hope* we will be able to instill in them enough self-respect and self-confidence to be able to acknowledge when they've picked a not-healthy match and move on quickly before they even get close to getting entangled as far as living together or marriage.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I'm going to have a hard time with this. DH is the only person I've been with and I love that. I love knowing that we've been each others first and only's in everything (we've been together since we were 14), but I also know that expecting my child to find her partner at 14 is pretty unrealistic. So I'm assuming we're going to teach safe consensual sex in a committed relationship. I doubt DD will end up waiting until marriage, but I don't want her to be having one night stands. I guess I'm hoping for her to not regret any sexual encounters she'll have and the same goes for any boys we may have.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
You know, I'm not entirely sure.

I know that we'll provide tons of information and be very very clear that we expect him to use condoms - not just any form of birth control, but condoms, unless he is in a committed and monogamous relationship. I'm pretty open and not all that into linking sex with sin or marriage or putting a value on virginity, and I don't care if my son is gay or bi or whatever.

That said, I really do hope that we also teach my son a lot about respecting himself and respecting his partner(s). I hope that we can teach him to proceed with life's many pleasures and ways of connecting in a loving and thoughtful manner. I'm not sure biology will be on our side here, but that's still what I intend to try to teach him.

This. Except that I think I would encourage him to use condoms even if he were in a monogomous, committed relationship that wasn't marriage. I mean, what if he'd been dating a girl for a few years, and she missed a pill or something? Or what if he was with someone and it was monogomous/committed but that person had an STD they were unaware of?


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I've tried to be open about sex, while still being age-appropriate. I think kids need to know more than just "have safe sex", although that's a start. We've talked about the risks of sex (protected and unprotected), types of sex, types of birth control and their efficacy...

I'm a fan of sex in close, committed relationships with someone you trust, although I can respect the idea that my child may not share that value. I also talked about sex as a skill, and the importance of understanding how your body works and how your partner's body works.

For me this is not hypothetical, at this point, and I have to say that some of this was easier to say than to do. We didn't have one "big talk", and there were times my daughter was embarrassed and there were times it was awkward. Sometimes it was just a sentence or two, in response to a TV show or something. I first handed her condoms when she was 13 or so, and I've told her a few times since that where they're kept in the bathroom. I bought the morning after pill last summer, for her to have around, because I was going to be away from her for a few weeks and she was in a relationship.

And if she does choose to be abstinent until marriage, that's fine too.


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## Seasons (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.


Accidentally-on-purpose leave books ("Our Bodies, Ourselves" and the like) in the house in accessible places?


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex?

Really, a lot of it for us has been random comments, like picking up a couple of condoms from a giveaway display and offering her one, just in case she ever needs it, while also mentioning that condoms do degrade over time and if she doesn't use it within the next 2 or 3 years she should probably toss it. And then I'd stop...


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

This is a really tough issue for me. I was taught one thing, but knew full well that my parents did something else. My mom taught me the traditional Catholic views, to abstain until marriage and to never ever use contraception. I knew, however, that she was sexually active with all three of her husbands before their marriages, and that she had had a tubal ligation after she had my sister.

When the time came for DH (then my boyfriend) and I to make the decision, we were so sure that we were ready to be intimate with each other, that we would welcome a baby if that was the result, but that we SHOULDN'T use BC, we spent the whole 2.5 years we dated confused as hell and trying our luck by having unprotected sex (although I knew alot about FAM) and feeling miserably guilty about it all the time.

This is not what I want for my kids. I think that what my parents told me and what I knew they did made it hard for me to decide what I thought was right. But now I'm in the same spot! I still hold those teachings dear, and agree with them whole heartedly, but I didn't follow them, so what should I tell my kids? Do as I say, not as I do? That doesn't typically work.

So I think I'm planning on educating the heck out of them. They should know all the possible options and risks and make the decisions for themselves. I will teach them what I think is right, but emphasize that it is a personal decision and that I love them and that God loves them no matter what they do. And I will always always be there to talk to about anything.

Argh, I still don't feel like I've reached a good place about this.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

I still hold those teachings dear, and agree with them whole heartedly, but I didn't follow them, so what should I tell my kids? Do as I say, not as I do? That doesn't typically work.
Usually it doesn't work because the parent is *not* following the beliefs while telling their children *to* follow those beliefs that they don't really believe in.

A parent who believes they made a mistake, admits it, and explains why they believe what they did was a mistake (for instance, what the painful consequences were) is not a hypocrite, but someone who has learned from their mistake. That's a lot easier for a kid to swallow than "You're supposed to believe this and live this, even though I don't really believe it myself and have never made an effort to live it myself"

In your case, it would not be "Do as I say, not as I do", but "Do as I am doing now, and let me explain to you why I so regret what I did in the past...."


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## Kismet_fw (Aug 7, 2009)

I have to admit, I taught my son that he should respect his partners and himself, but also to care enough about any future children that he should avoid making them until he is in a situation to be a responsible parent (including caring for a partner through pregnancy, if that is what the relationship leads to.)

DD had one 'almost made it' pregnancy and miscarriage before marriage, then her ds and another of the 'almost made it' that we were praying for during marriage, before her current pregnancy - same partner turned spouse.

They both know that I will love and accept them no matter what their future relationships might be.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.

DS1 also reached that point a year or two ago. I basically said, "I'm telling you this, and then I'll shut up" and told him a few things I hadn't told him before (mostly about the way sex can create feelings of emotional intimacy that are far more intense than one might expect and to watch out for that). Since then, we've dropped it. He knows he can talk to me if he wants to, but I don't see any benefit in pushing against his comfort zone about his own sexuality. Frankly, I don't think he wants him mom to know he's a sexual human being, and I can understand that.

We had an ongoing, intermittent dialogue about sexual issues while he was growing up, and I'm just going to have to hope it "took". I do believe that watching me go through the hell I've gone through with the c-sections and the stillbirth has created an awareness of the possible ramifications of sex that goes _way_ beyond what most of his peers possess.


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## nikkiethridge (May 6, 2008)

we will talk about safe sex...but not pressuring to wait until marriage. that is up to him.


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

Haven't read all the replies yet but I will soon.

My DS is 7 and we've already talked about sex quite a bit. We're not a shy family and so far my DS has been very comfortable talking to us about sex and relationships and we've just been following his lead and answering his questions. I've been teaching, and will continue to teach, respect for his body and the bodies of others first and foremost, and for us that is teaching about safe sex. Beyond that, his sex life (whenever he feels he is ready) is his choice. I haven't given him "restrictions" for sex as far as age or relationship status goes. When he is ready will be up to him to decide.

From the conversations we've had so far, beyond where babies come from, he knows that sex can make you sick if you don't protect yourself, and we've talked a little bit about ways people can protect their bodies. He knows that anyone can have sex, married or not, but I've also told him that it would be ideal to wait until he is with someone he loves, respects, and trusts, and he does understand what that means for the most part, but of course he won't truly understand it all until he is older.

So I guess we're pretty non-traditional. I just answer his questions as they come up, and give him the all the knowledge that I feel he'll need to make wise choices about sex when the time comes. I won't pretend that he's going to wait until marriage to have sex, nor do I personally believe that is even the best choice for everyone, I simply want him to be safe AND respectful to himself and future partner/s.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm going to encourage my children to live with someone before they get married. I think it's a wonderful indicator of how life will be if you decide to commit to get married. I'll tell my kids about safe sex and will always have money available for condoms. I don't think sex should wait until marriage and I won't be teaching that. I will teach them that I think sex is something special shared between two people who are in love. If they choose to wait, I support that. If they choose to have sex younger, I support that too. As long as it's between two consenting people, I don't have a problem with sex.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.

Do you think she's done research on her own?

The few times my mom tried to give me the the "sex talk" I basically gave her the "you've got to be kidding" look. But, that was due to my family giving me a realistic grounding in the facts of sex when I was so young that I don't ever remember NOT knowing about it, and me satisfying my own further questions by seeking out and reading a bunch of books on sex/sexuality when I was 10-11. (I didn't check them out of the library, but nobody pays attention to the kid sitting on the floor in the stacks.)


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

I think it's fair and right for my children to have complete and accurate information about sex. How else can I show that I respect them? How else can I hope that they will make educated choices for themselves?

I'm not going to lie and say abstinence is the best, because studies have shown that approach to be horribly ineffective. I'm not going to tell them condoms are a life-saver that prevent all STDs, because they don't. I'm not going to tell them the withdrawal method is never effective, because that's a lie (sure, it's not the best method, especially for inexperienced non-monogamous youngsters, but it's certainly better than nothing!).

I don't believe my children will receive adequate sex ed in school (unless we homeschool, ha!), so it's my responsibility to help them learn how to enjoy and protect their bodies. I'm actually looking pretty forward to those conversations, and I hope they won't be TOO weirded out.

No matter what, it has to be better than what my mom did for me, which was to toss me a pair of books called _Where Did I Come From?_ and _What's Happening to Me?_, and then mutter that I should come and find her if I have questions. Thanks, Mom! Sheesh.


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## Kismet_fw (Aug 7, 2009)

rebeccajo said:


> and will always have money available for condoms. QUOTE]
> 
> I will surely burn in hell (or at least, someone will think I should
> 
> ...


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

Quote:

All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.
Irishmommy, you know what I'd do if she just isn't open to talking with you right now? (And it may be temporary--gads, 15 was SUCH an awkward age for me.) I'd send her somewhere that she can get the info.

One place she could find both personal experience and evidence-based information sharing in a safe space is at VaginaPagina.com. There is also a wiki with all kinds of very carefully researched (and fully cited) info, as well. Almost as good as VP is Scarleteen, although I admit to coming across misinformation there from time to time. They're very different places, but both quite active and full of smart young women with a positive approach.

Both of the forums/sites I linked would allow her to talk honestly and openly both with her peers and more experienced, smart women who can help her learn about this crazy new world. Maybe after she does some exploring and info-gathering on her own, she'll be ready to unplug her ears with you and slow down on the la-la-las.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

We believe that sex is beautiful and natural and a truely wonderful part of a committed relationship. We do not intend to teach abstinance until marriage. We do intend to teach abstinance until ready. When they are in a relationship with someone that is based on love, respect, and all those other wonderful things and they feel the time is right then they are well with in their rights to enter into an intimate relationship.

We also plan to educate about STD's, and pregnancy and contraception and all those other important things.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

I have been able to say that if she's not comfortable talking about it, she's not ready to do anything about it, but that's as close as I can get.

And yes, other than talking about sex, we have a great, close relationship.

Teaching is not all about talking either though. Young children aren't the only ones who learn through seeing.


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## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

I will educate as much as I can and hope they listen.







I will NOT push abstinence...in fact I hope my kids *don't* wait for marriage. People need to know they are compatible before they tie the knot, and that includes sexually. I probably wouldn't be happy if I found out they were doing it at 14, but really 16+ I don't think is an issue at all. If I found out, I would just remind them to be safe and ask if they need help getting what they need.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
We believe that sex is beautiful and natural and a truely wonderful part of a committed relationship. We do not intend to teach abstinance until marriage. We do intend to teach abstinance until ready. When they are in a relationship with someone that is based on love, respect, and all those other wonderful things and they feel the time is right then they are well with in their rights to enter into an intimate relationship.

Well said. If my children do engage in recreational sex (and I find out about it), I'm not going to hypocritically freak out or anything...but I do kind of hope they don't. That ground _can_ be successfully navigated, imo - but it's hard to do when you're a teenager.

Quote:

We also plan to educate about STD's, and pregnancy and contraception and all those other important things.
Yup. That's been ongoing with ds1 for a long time, and is creeping into discussions with dd1, as well.


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## pers (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
All this "I teach this" "I teach that" is all very well, but what if you have a 15 year old who puts her fingers in her ears and goes lalala when you talk about sex? Okay, not literally, but she won't talk at all, or listen. She also is not interested in dating, so I hope it's okay (she was chatted up by two boys yesterday when we were climbing, and she was oblivious to the chatting up part, she just chatted).

Ha - that was so me. No way would I talk about sex, and I also pretended to be a lot more immature around my parents than I really was because I was still immature enough to be embarrassed at the thought of them being aware I was noticing guys. No way would I talk to my mom about sex.

Thank goodness I went to a school with a decent sex ed class, or I might have found myself in trouble. I hope my kids and I have a more open relationship and talk about stuff like that, but still, I also hope they have decent sex ed classes at school to just in case something doesn't get mentioned at home that should be.

My mom also gave me a copy of "Our Bodies, Ourselves," which absolutely horrified me because it was about sex and it was from my mom. But once I had it and it was in my room, she had no way of knowing if I read it or not, so that made it okay to read without being embarrassed.

So, giving her educational books that say what you want to is one possible route since there is a decent chance she would read them out of curiosity all the while pretending she'd set them aside in her room without a thought. Or, another idea, you could even write her a letter on the subject and leave it with her in her room to read or not (or at least pretend not to) as she chooses. If it is embarrassment over talking about sex with you that is making her cover her ears, conducting the conversation through writing rather than being face to face might help.


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## Mirrormonkey (Jan 6, 2009)

Hmmm.... I worry about this topic and drug use as well, how honest will I be with my kids about my youth and the things mommy got in to.

I hope I am able to instill a sense of selfworth in my children as they grow up, I don't want sex to be something they feel they have to do to be cool. If they are going to have sex I want them to know what they are getting into. I like the condoms around the house idea, but I would say I will go a step further if my unborn one is a girl and get her on birth control when it seems like she is becoming interested in any sort of sexual activity. (besdies preventing pregnancy, the pill is also great for acne and light periods!)

I just know I am going to be the irritating mom who is too open and honest about sex and drugs and alcohol. But that is how I was raised and even though I started young on all fronts, I knew what I was doing and have no regrets.

And for the record, my kids had better have lots of sex and live with the person they plan on marrying for a good while before they get married!


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

I plan to teach the anatomy and physiology of sex and reproduction from a factual standpoint - including different forms of birth control, how they work, how effective they are. I will let them know how I feel about it from an emotional/moral standpoint, as well as other common beliefs on the topic. Finally, I will let them know that I want them to use that information to make educated choices - and that I will support them in whatever path they take.

I went to a small Catholic high school - there were about 25 girls in my graduating class. Between our jr and sr year, 5 of the girls got pregnant (4 of the 5 had abortions) - that is about a 20% pregnancy rate. If that doesn't say that abstinence only education doesn't work, I don't know what does! I really believe that kids will ultimately do what they want to do, and that the safest thing we can do is give them facts, let them know our beliefs, and love and support them (even if they don't make the choices we would hope they would).

On the topic of living together before marriage, I know it was important for me to do. I needed that clarity before I could go ahead and make the commitment of marriage. But, I feel there is no way I could say what is the best path for others. It is so personal. I know what worked for me. I could never presume to know what would work best for someone else. My best friend felt very strongly about not living together before marriage. We have both been married for almost 6 years, and are both still happy with our choices.


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## KMK_Mama (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crystal_R* 
I'm going to have a hard time with this. DH is the only person I've been with and I love that. I love knowing that we've been each others first and only's in everything (we've been together since we were 14), but I also know that expecting my child to find her partner at 14 is pretty unrealistic. So I'm assuming we're going to teach safe consensual sex in a committed relationship. I doubt DD will end up waiting until marriage, but I don't want her to be having one night stands. I guess I'm hoping for her to not regret any sexual encounters she'll have and the same goes for any boys we may have.









I agree! Only I was 15, DH was 18 when we started dating.


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## sebarnes (Feb 2, 2005)

Our children are very young, but we have been as open with them about babies, etc. as is possible in an age appropriate manner. We plan to explain to our children why we think abstinence until marriage is the ideal. I had several partners before dh and I married, and he was a virgin, so we have both had varying experiences but have both reached the same conclusion.

HOWEVER, what is ideal is not always what happens, so whether dh agrees with me or not on this (we really need to have a conversation about it), I also intend to be very open and thorough with them about safe sex, contraceptive options, the emotional and physical ramifications of sex and the difference between casual sex and sex in a committed (even if non married) relationship. And you bet your bottom that if dd came to me and asked to be taken to get bc that I would have her at a care provider to do that lickity split. And yes, I'd help ds OR dd navigate the condom choice issue as well. Although depending on age and job status I might require them to actual purchase their own choice of contraceptive. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I think the bottom line is that one has to be realistic that despite what you believe or tell a child, they will choose to make their own choices and as a parent, you need to arm them with as much information as possible so that they can make as informed a choice as they can.


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## CorasMama (May 10, 2002)

We're part of a religious community that emphasizes abstinence, and I do believe it would be best if DD waited until marriage, and I teach her that. _However_, I also recognize the reality of young adults and teens, so I will also teach her about safer sex. (I've tried to teach her a little bit so far, but she's way too young, emotionally, and it embarrasses her, so we are easing into it.) I know how well abstinence-only teaching _doesn't_ work, and while I'd prefer she wait, I don't want to have my head in the sand, and end up with her pregnant before she's ready, or worse.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

To me, sex resulting in babies is the positive outcome of sex. At least it is something that can be turned into something positive. Sex resulting in an STD is WAY different. I am all for condoms, rather than the contraceptive pill for this reason. Simply, I find it quite awful if I would put my DD on the pill, or insist she is not allowed contraceptives, and she would end up not pregnant, but with an STD.

I hope to teach DD that sex belongs in a committed relationship, with a partner who truly cares for his/her partner's best interests. Whenever this may happen. And that pressure and "everyone else does it" belongs nowhere, but especially not in sex. I plan to teach her to look after herself and her body, that she and her body are important and amazing and extraordinary. That it is important for her to know herself and her body well, and make responsible decisions from that. For example, I'll teach her to record her cycle, something I wish I'd known when I was younger. For one thing, I know that I'm a lot more keen when I'm ovulating, which I think can be a very useful thing to know.

This said, I certainly wouldn't encourage her to have a baby young. I wasn't young, but I had a terrible pregnancy and a difficult birth, and a very long recovery period (the first 6 months were very hard), and DD is therefore likely to be an only child. The baby's not the difficult part, nor to support it (and I say that despite having a high need baby, and being in quite a difficult place econimcally), with some support it can still be fine. DH and I have a number of degrees between us, and many years of working experience, and still not much better off than if we'd had none.


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## seasiren (Mar 3, 2009)

Being that I am just expecting my first in a matter of weeks, I honestly haven't thought much about this topic. (Still working on diapers and breastfeeding issues). I have however lived 33 years and have been having sex for nearly 20 of those years at this point.
My husband also lived a long time before we found each other and both of us had many sexual experiences, all of which we would not change.
In our spiritual community sexuality is something to be held sacred, however, sex is not reserved only for marriage.
I think spirituality and sexuality are two different subjects. The "traditional" concepts are meant to keep children safe before they have developed their characters. And yet if you really want to keep your kids safe I think teaching them good values, self respect, and kindness is better than teaching them to just say no to sex.
Young people should all be empowered with knowledge about the reality of sex and should have access to ways that can protect them from getting pregnant too young. People should have the chance to figure out who they are before jumping into a marriage. All of my friends and family who got married young did so because they were taught it was the right thing to do, or they had unsupportive families and were desperate for love. All of them are divorced now or still together but with many regrets. Not saying this will happen to my child, but odds are not good.
I was a pretty normal teenager who was confused and trying to figure out love.. I am so grateful my mom put me on BC so I didnt have to make an adult decision like having a baby before I could even figure out trigonometry. There was no way my mom could have stopped me from being sexually active, nor would she have wanted to. She taught me safety first.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Feeling kind of judged about the abstinence only education comments.









From what I have observed, there are two forms. One of which is useless, and one works. The way I was taught about reserving sex for marriage worked for me, and for my friends who were taught the same way, and for my dh. I have observed, though, the other way, and that the people who were taught that way did indeed go on to suffer from being poorly educated and from damage done because of that.

Just want to put it out there that not all of us who teach abstinence as the ideal are naiive and stupid. And we probably don't teach it in the way most people here seem to be imagining we would.


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
I'm going to encourage my children to live with someone before they get married. I think it's a wonderful indicator of how life will be if you decide to commit to get married. I'll tell my kids about safe sex and will always have money available for condoms. I don't think sex should wait until marriage and I won't be teaching that. I will teach them that I think sex is something special shared between two people who are in love. If they choose to wait, I support that. If they choose to have sex younger, I support that too. As long as it's between two consenting people, I don't have a problem with sex.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
This is pretty much how I feel.

Also, I would likely encourage them to live with their partner BEFORE making the huge commitment of marriage. It actually seems backwards to me to vow to spend the rest of your life with another human being when you haven't even lived under the same roof for a good amount of time. JMO, of course







.

I agree with these two... I became sexually active at 15 and have lived with several boyfriends... some of that has saved me from likely more divorces, as my one boyfriend did not become physically abusive till after we lived together.

I also feel it is very very important to be sexually compatible with someone.

I am hoping that DD and I can have a very open relationship that we can discuss these things... but if not, I'll keep the Planned Parenthood info on the fridge. LOL

I took myself at 15 to Planned Parenthood to get on the pill and get condomns... though I wish someone would have educated me that the pill can screw you up reproductively after long term use... so I do plan on educating DD about that as well and other contraceptive, FAM methods to choose from.


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

My views on sex have changed a lot through the years. When I was a teenager I was all for waiting till marriage. Then that all went out the window when I started traveling. Way too much sex fun to be had while traveling. So my early 20's were spent sleeping with many (many







) different partners. Some were special, and some were not. I did have a committed 3 year relationship in the midst of all that too, but I truly do not believe that sex belongs in a committed relationship. Sex takes on many forms and there are so many options. But all was fun and exciting and I don't regret any of it. I always played safe and never got pregnant or a disease.
Then I met my dh, settled down and now the thought of having multiple random partners, or even someone other than my dh, really isn't all that appealing. But I don't believe in waiting till marriage. And well, if you shouldn't live with someone and have sex with them before becoming legally married...well then I'm screwed







. Jeez, I slept with my dh a few hours after meeting him. And we've been together now for 7 years. I think people should do whatever makes then happy. Above all I will encourage my ds to use condoms and be careful about accidental pregnancy and disease. But I'm not uptight about sex in the least. I just think you need to take care and protect yourself in however you choose to enjoy sex.


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## russsk (Aug 17, 2007)

We plan on being open with DS (and any other children) about safe sex, and will encourage him to live with a partner before marriage. I don't have a problem with sex before marriage at all. I also think its ok to make some mistakes. I look back at some of the partners that I had, and I have to laugh. What was I thinking!? I don't have regrets though (and there was nothing like abuse involved). It's part of who I am and how I figured that out.

I really hope that I do a better job than my mom did - that's my goal. I love her to death and we have a great relationship now, but the sex stuff left a lot to be desired. When I was 16 she found a condom in my stuff. She came to me crying, saying "please tell me this isn't yours." So of course I told her it wasn't mine. She just pretended that sex (like so many other things, including makeup and menstruation) didn't exist for me and needed no discussion. This led to problems (and I'll just leave it at that).

For my brother, though, she was open. She told him about safe sex, encouraged him to come to her with any questions, bought him condoms, etc. She even allowed his gf to sleep over, so that she knew where he was and he wasn't out g-d knows where late at night. Years later, when I brought my now Dh to meet her, we had to sleep in separate rooms, because we weren't married (we lived together, though). (My dad even called my mom last year to ask if she thought it was ok if dh and I shared a room when we visited him. We are married with a kid! At least she thought that was ok.)


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JSMa* 
I wish someone would have educated me that the pill can screw you up reproductively after long term use... so I do plan on educating DD about that as well and other contraceptive, FAM methods to choose from.

THIS. And that certain methods such as depo have VERY serious side effects.


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## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

We will be teaching that absinence is best. It's part of our religious beliefs. We believe that sex is a beautiful and sacred thing that can be more fully enjoyed between a husband and wife. That's not to say that we'll say, "Don't have sex till you're married" and just leave it at that. My children will have information as to why we feel that abstinence is better.

Sex isn't just about feeling good, connecting with someone. There are consequences. It would be irresponsible of me to not make her aware of some of the possible consequences. Several of her friends were born to teen moms so she has seen first hand some of the struggles they have that we don't. I'm not saying that teen moms are bad mothers but statistically speaking, there's less stability, financial and otherwise. It's also much harder for the moms to pursue education and other life goals with a child, it's not impossible but defiinitely more difficult. Then there's the risk of STDs and emotional/spiritual regret.

Also, if any of my children decide that absitinence is not for them, while I'll be very disappointed, I will still love them and cherish them.

The fact is that the only truly safe sex is abstinence. Yes, there are things that one can do to reduce the risk of pregnancy and STDs but there is always an element of risk. Children deserve to know that there are risks involved, even in 'safe' sex. This isn't the same as guilt-tripping them or using fear to make them not have sex, it's simply making them aware of the information. For example, condoms cannot entire prevent herpes transmissions. It isn't fair to say to use a condom to prevent STDs when it's still very possible to get herpes even while using a condom. It gives a very false sense of security. What will their response be when they find out they have herpes even though they always used condoms which were supposed to be safe? I'm not saying that everyone who becomes sexually active before they're married will end up with herpes, obviously that's not the case, but it is a risk that kids should be aware of before they become sexually active.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
Feeling kind of judged about the abstinence only education comments.









From what I have observed, there are two forms. One of which is useless, and one works. The way I was taught about reserving sex for marriage worked for me, and for my friends who were taught the same way, and for my dh. I have observed, though, the other way, and that the people who were taught that way did indeed go on to suffer from being poorly educated and from damage done because of that.

Just want to put it out there that not all of us who teach abstinence as the ideal are naiive and stupid. And we probably don't teach it in the way most people here seem to be imagining we would.

This is how I have felt while reading this thread. Thank-you, cappuccinosmom, for expressing it so well.


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## seaheroine (Dec 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katiesk* 
i think there is a big benefit to talking about the ideals of having a sexual relationship: waiting for emotional maturity, relationship stability, love, commitment, age, etc. and helping kids understand why those things are important. however, i think that it is also important to be smart. even if a kid has abstinence as their ideal, it does not mean that they won't make a different choice in one moment, therefore having an awareness of safe sex and how to obtain bc should be a priority.

for me...i think that i would make sure i always had condoms in my house and that my kids (and their friends?) knew where to find them without having to awkwardly ask.

i would expect that my relationship with my children would be such that they would be able to talk to me frankly about such things...but regardless, i would be smart enough to realize that whether i know it or not, they probably have the opportunity to have sex, so i'll give them the opportunity to easily make that safe sex.


ITA, great post!

No abstinence expectations here. For us, open dialogue and frank discussion about safe sex are far more important. I will also provide birth control for sons or daughters. I've rehearsed sharing some pretty candid moments of my own...I don't know how those conversations will come about but my mother did the same and I feel I learned a lot from her experience. Raised Catholic, I received a lot of teaching about abstinence at catechism and it caused quite a bit of personal guilt and internal struggle when I decided to become sexually active as a young adult. I'm not going to do that to my daughters.

I also don't mind if my children choose to live with someone before marriage. I have a lot of good conversation about the responsibilities and liabilities that come along with sharing a home and hopefully I'm able to convey it effectively. DH and I lived together eleven years before we married...it worked out fine for us.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I have an honest question about teaching abstinence till marriage. What if your child is gay and therefore can't get married in most states. Can they just never have sex?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't own my children's bodies and therefore am not the one to decide if they wait until marriage. I don't believe waiting for marriage is an ideal to be achieved. I'm afraid that can sometimes lead to people getting married before they are ready/to the wrong person because the desire to have sex is part of the decision-making process. Also, I feel it's my duty to be realistic about the world and the fact that most people simply don't wait.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Not an abstinence-only type here, but most religions that teach pre-marital abstinence, also teach celibacy for gays. So I don't know what the specific posters here on MDC plan to teach, but in general, yes, that's the official line for those particular religious beliefs. That's why gay marriage is not recognized by many religious groups-- because they wouldn't want to create a ceremony which recognizes a sin, and in their religion gay sex is a sin.

My religion permits premarital sex, and performs and recognizes gay marriages, but I have belonged to groups in the past which believe as I describe above. (Which is one reason I left those groups.)


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## sebarnes (Feb 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FoxintheSnow* 
I have an honest question about teaching abstinence till marriage. What if your child is gay and therefore can't get married in most states. Can they just never have sex?

As I said above, abstinence is our ideal, although we recognize our children may make different choices. I would personally encourage my child to be in as legally committed a relationship as their sexual orientation would allow before they chose to have sex. My hope is that when my children are adults this will be marriage regardless of sexual orientation.

(I realize the above is worded awkwardly, but I hope my meaning/intent makes sense)


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

I will teach and highly encourage abstinence until marriage, that's how I did it and it was the right choice for me for a lot of reasons (and I will share this reasoning with my kids), but I will also teach the ways to prevent pregnancy and STDs. That way my own children can make their own fully informed choice like I did and anyway knowing how to prevent pregnancy is certainly important information after you are married too







I hope they make the same decision I did as I think it's the best way to do things, but it is their decision.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

I am going to teach my children that sex is one of the most intimate, spiritual and important experiences that you can have in life. And that, it's like you are sharing a piece of your soul with someone else. Therefore, you need to be very picky and wait for the optimum situation where you are emotionally and spiritually ready and that you in addition have a secure, committed, monogomous relationship and a high level of maturity to handle such responsiblity.

I want them to have high standards, as a matter of protecting their own spiritual/emotional states. We've already been stressing to them and living by example that choosing your life partner (spouse) is the most important decision you make in your life. We tell them all the time about some of the most special aspects about how we met, our relationship. They love looking at pictures, one of our DC gest silly and teases me about wanting to kiss Daddy. The kids are really cute, but I know that they love the fact that they know Mommy and Daddy adore eachother!

I saw the same thing in my parents (married 40+ years when my Dad passed), and came away with the feeling that marriage and family would be the most important thing in my life. And, by golly it is!









I teased DH the other week when he was away. I said to him, 20 years and 4 kids later I still miss you when I'm away from you (and he agreed). I figure that's a good sign







.

As for waiting for marriage, sure I think that is the ultimate in terms of intimacy. I'm one of those who met my DP really young, and just knew from the start. Meeting him was like meeting family, we are eachother's soft place to fall so to speak, with all the stress of this life. We did wait for years here. Occasionally I'll joke that we passed up on some of those 'peak teenage hormone years' to dtd but I have to say that I have no regrets about waiting. Of course, I did get married young (20). And, the first time is likely one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had, spiritual, beautiful, highly orgasmic too. I'm not anti-birth control either, I didn't have our first until I was 27!

I hope that my children develop their moral/spiritual beliefs in a way that keeps family and interpersonal relationships safe and healthy.


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## sebarnes (Feb 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 

I hope that my children develop their moral/spiritual beliefs in a way that keeps family and interpersonal relationships safe and healthy.

I think this is a fabulous way to look at it.


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## Deefodil (May 25, 2009)

I think that sex is an entirely different thing than baby-making, and both are separate issues from marriage.

I plan on keeping condoms and Plan B's in the house for my children and their friends. I plan on encouraging my children to make wise decisions about having sex - which includes health decisions and emotional decisions. I plan on giving my children a safe place in which to enjoy their relationships.

For those of you who are teaching abstinence only, here's a link for you:

Teen Birth Rates Highest in Most Religious States

Quote:

U.S. states whose residents have more conservative religious beliefs on average tend to have higher rates of teenagers giving birth, a new study suggests.

The relationship could be due to the fact that communities with such religious beliefs (a literal interpretation of the Bible, for instance) may frown upon contraception, researchers say. If that same culture isn't successfully discouraging teen sex, the pregnancy and birth rates rise.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
Feeling kind of judged about the abstinence only education comments.









From what I have observed, there are two forms. One of which is useless, and one works. The way I was taught about reserving sex for marriage worked for me, and for my friends who were taught the same way, and for my dh. I have observed, though, the other way, and that the people who were taught that way did indeed go on to suffer from being poorly educated and from damage done because of that.

Just want to put it out there that not all of us who teach abstinence as the ideal are naiive and stupid. And we probably don't teach it in the way most people here seem to be imagining we would.

Well put.

Have to say I'm feeling a little uncomfortable about the political/spiritual aspect of this conversation on the parenting forum. Everyone is entitled to hold their own beliefs, be informed, and make choices for them and their own children. That does not mean that those of us who teach abstinence WILL have daughters who get pregnant.

I don't think any of us are proposing locking our children in a closet or putting chastity belts on them. Just teaching them the sacredness of their bodies and the act of sex in relation to that.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deefodil* 
I think that sex is an entirely different thing than baby-making, and both are separate issues from marriage.

I plan on keeping condoms and Plan B's in the house for my children and their friends. I plan on encouraging my children to make wise decisions about having sex - which includes health decisions and emotional decisions. I plan on giving my children a safe place in which to enjoy their relationships.

For those of you who are teaching abstinence only, here's a link for you:

Teen Birth Rates Highest in Most Religious States

Yep. I grew up in the deep South. So many of my girlfriends left high school to get married because they were pregnant.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Well, my abstinence only education sucked and I got it from parents who 'practiced what they preached'. I got all my sex ed from friends and Teen Magazine. I think sex is A-OK as long as you have consenting individuals who fully know and take responsibility for all potential physical and emotional outcomes and contraception. I am 100% against abstinence only sex ed.


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deefodil* 
I think that sex is an entirely different thing than baby-making, and both are separate issues from marriage.

I plan on keeping condoms and Plan B's in the house for my children and their friends. I plan on encouraging my children to make wise decisions about having sex - which includes health decisions and emotional decisions. I plan on giving my children a safe place in which to enjoy their relationships.

For those of you who are teaching abstinence only, here's a link for you:

Teen Birth Rates Highest in Most Religious States

I wanted to point out that this study says that teen _birth_ rates are higher. The author even admits that this may be because religious teenagers are less likely to get abortions.

It also states that the link is not necessarily causal and that there are a lot of variables that cause controversy about making that kind of statement. It says that the type of religiosity they are talking about is Fundamentalist Christian....which is not the only religious group discussing here.

I also wanted to mention that, when you look at the chart, Utah, which is considered conservative and Christian, is rated 6th for religiousness and 34th for teen pregnancy. Not much of a correlation there.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

One problem with teen birth rates statistics is that they don't exclude married teens... so if one posited that religious teens are more likely to marry young, that could also help explain these numbers. A married 18 or 19 year old with a child is a different ball o' wax than a pregnant 13 year old middle schooler, IMO.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Dh and I believe that sexual intimacy is best when shared between 2 people who've covenanted to spend their lives together, and of course our children will grow up knowing our beliefs. We also don't use any birth-control. We believe when we have sex, it should be with an opennes to God creating life from it if He so chooses.

At the same time, I see the point made by many that total abstinence isn't realistic. These days, young people reach sexual maturity YEARS before being ready to marry and raise a family. I did remain a virgin until I married at age 35 -- but for years before that, I suffered a continual, nagging guilt for "entertaining" sexual fantasies, masturbating, and so on.

My religious upbringing had me thinking that it was sin to have these feelings outside of a committed relationship. Women were supposed to remain "unawakened" until marriage.

I'm not sure if current abstinence programs allow room for young people to explore their own bodies and meet their sexual needs on their own while waiting for marriage, or not. I want my children to know that sexual feelings are a wonderful gift from God, as well as indications of their health and fertility.

And I plan to communicate that our culture has an unrealistic situation in that physical readiness for sex comes way earlier than emotional, social, and economic readiness. So maybe it was realistic to expect young girls to remain sexually-unawakened in Biblical times when they were married by around age 12 -- but most young women, these days, are going to start having sexual feelings many years before marriage.

So I want my girls to know it's okay and healthy to get to know their own bodies, go with their sexual feelings, and experience orgasm before marriage. I also want them to know that even though I'd prefer that they not be sexually-intimate with someone before marriage, I will still love and support them if they decide to do this.

And I also want them to know about the various options for making pre-marital sex safe-er -- especially condom use. And of course I'll also communicate that sometimes sperm, as well as disease-causing microorganisms, can get through the pores of a condom (and sometimes condoms can tear) --

But still and yet, the risk of pregnancy and disease is much lower when using condoms than it is when using nothing. It's kind of like wearing seatbelts -- seatbelt-wearers will sometimes suffer death or severe injury, but it happens at a much lower rate than to non-seatbelt-wearers.

And while the best way to avoid car crash injury is to not get into a car at all, most people don't find this to be a workable solution -- so they just do what they can to minimize the risk and get on with it. But some folks really are car-free and happy. You just have to find the best situation for yourself.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm not sure what I'm going to teach at this point but I will definitely include safe sex. I also hope to teach my child that he can come to me with _any_ questions, concerns or problems, etc.

My mom made a big mistake when I went to her to talk about birth control... I don't want to make that mistake with my son.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
As for waiting for marriage, sure I think that is the ultimate in terms of intimacy.

That really depends on a lot of factors. My ex and I were together for 15 years. For most of that, we were very close, and the best of friends, and almost inseparable (we had the same group of friends, right down to his bff, and my bff being a couple for about 4 years). And, honestly - our sexual intimacy never reached the level that dh and I reached the first time we had sex (which was before we got married, and after we had both already stated - to ourselves, each other, and everybody else - that we weren't going to do that). There were just too many underlying issues, many of which I was completely unaware of until years later.

Quote:

And, the first time is likely one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had, spiritual, beautiful, highly orgasmic too.
The things is...I feel the same way about my first time with dh - and it was in his hotel room while he was visiting from out of town (we met online and were "friends"). That was 9 years ago, and we've got a great sex life, but that first time was...special.


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## imagine21 (Apr 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Seasons* 
I teach that love, marriage and babies are three independent decisions.

I agree, but I would add, "I teach that sex, love, marriage and babies are all independent decisions."

As the mother of a 13 yo dd and a high school teacher (history and government mainly but sex ed credentialed) I have seen WAY too much to not include a discussion about sex/lust in the mix.

Cappaccinosmom: Regarding the discussion about abstinance only education the "right way" and the "wrong way," I'd love to know what differentiates one from the other. Thanks.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

A pp said something about abstinence until marriage, so that their children are protected from STDs (I can't find the post now). The only guaranteed way to be safe from STDs is celibacy for life. More than one person has caught something from a cheating spouse, so waiting until marriage is no guarantee, yk?


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

I have an honest question about teaching abstinence till marriage. What if your child is gay and therefore can't get married in most states. Can they just never have sex?
Our faith requires celibacy outside of a covenanted, heterosexual marriage.

People can and do live celibate lives because they have chosen their faith/God over their bodily desires.

People also leave their faith in order to do what they want to do without the restrictions of that faith.

Just because I may not agree with my children's choices when it comes to sexuality does not mean that I would not continue to love them and relate to them.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

More than one person has caught something from a cheating spouse, so waiting until marriage is no guarantee, yk?
Which is why teaching our children to spot character flaws and red flags, and how to conduct a healthy relationship before sex is even in the picture is an essential part of their education no matter what your views are on the matter of sexuality.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

I think another problematic aspect of this discussion is defining what sex is. I knew a lot of girlfriends who came from religious families and so believed that sex before marriage was wrong, yet they did a lot of physically intimate (and to me, more intimate than the general heterosexual idea of "sex"). These activities are JUST as unsafe--if not moreso--than "sex" (I don't want to name/describe the acts out of respect for the UA).

To be fair, not all abstinence-focused sex ed is equal. I think it's totally valid to teach that abstinence is the ideal, but to leave out all other information seems dangerous. It's one thing to say "Sex is a sacred act and your body is sacred and important, so we feel it's best to wait until you're partnered for life to have sex" but still give info on how to protect oneself, and to say, "Abstinence is the only option" and leave kids to find out the rest themselves... often to their peril.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
Which is why teaching our children to spot character flaws and red flags,

Yeah...and when I look back to when I first got together with my ex, I still can't see the red flags. There were a few by the time we got married, but not many, and they were _very_ easy to overlook in the context of over 6 years with no actual problems between us, yk? Character flaws can't always be seen and the "red flags" are sometimes very small and barely pink.

I'm not arguing for celibacy forever or anything. I just have trouble with the idea that if you wait until marriage, it's some kind of guarantee. There are no guarantees.

Quote:

and how to conduct a healthy relationship before sex is even in the picture is an essential part of their education no matter what your views are on the matter of sexuality.
How to conduct a healthy relationship? I hope I'm misinterpreting this, because it sounds a lot like "he wouldn't have cheated if she'd been a better wife" reasoning.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

We're not believers in abstinence until marriage, and we are not disapproving about same-sex relationships. I will encourage my children to wait until they are mature and in a safe, caring relationship with somebody who is also mature and responsible. I will also equip them with all of the facts, and make sure they have access to condoms or whatever else they need, in a way that minimized hesitation and embarrassment. I will also make sure they have access to sources of information other than myself, because it's true that once they reach the age where this stuff is important in an immediate sense, there is often too much awkwardness for kids to talk to their own parents. We do start sex-education in the toddler years, though







so that hopefully they'll have a great deal of information before the age of embarrassment arrives. The one thing I will definitely require of them is participation in our UU church's OWL program (Our Whole Lives). (http://www.uua.org/religiouseducatio...cula/ourwhole/) just in case you're interested. It's what they call Lifespan Sexuality Education.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

How to conduct a healthy relationship? I hope I'm misinterpreting this, because it sounds a lot like "he wouldn't have cheated if she'd been a better wife" reasoning.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Part of having a healthy relationship is being able to acknowledge when it is a bad match, having eyes open to possible problems, and being able to either step away immediately if there is a one-sided problem, or take part in healing if it is a two-sided problem. I shouldn't have worded it the way I did.


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## punkrockmomma (Jan 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLaLaLa* 
I want my kids (one DD, one DS) to love and revere their own bodies. A healthy body is a fabulous thing that can do so many great things for you. Sex is one of those great things, and I want my kids to know that sex is, and should be, amazing.

I'm not religious and I absolutely don't believe that sex is something that should happen only within marriage. I'm so glad I'd already had some sexual experience when I started dating DH, and I'm glad he had some experience, too. Really glad.







If my kids want to live with someone before getting married, I'm fine with that. If they want to have babies without being married, I'm okay with that, too.

I do think that sex should be something a person shouldn't look back on with embarrassment. For that reason, I'd encourage my kids to think carefully about their sexual choices and not make any rash decisions. I hope to stress to them that there is always a choice and they should neither pressure a partner nor allow themselves to be pressured. When they do decide to engage in sexual activity, I'd hope they will own that decision proudly.

I'll discuss and help to acquire contraception. Unlike many people, I will stress to my son more than my daughter the ultimate consequences of action. Both kids have similar risk of STDs, which we'll discuss. However, if a pregnancy were to result, DD would have choices. I'll point out to DS that he would have NO choices. If his lover becomes pregnant, she is the one who will decide whether to keep a baby or not. And if she decides to keep it, DS will be paying child support and providing emotional support for eighteen years. I'll try to impress upon him that it's a very long time to deal with what might be a very short and hormonal decision.

My kids are currently 5 and 3.5, though, so I have plenty of time to revise my views, if I choose.

I totally agree!!









I don't agree with the abstinence only approach to sex, even if you are a very religious person/family. Kids have minds of their own, and I think, especially teenagers, a lot of times they will go through a period of rebellion against the way they've been raised, I'm not saying all kids, but A LOT of them do. I feel that not teaching teens about safe sex is irresponsible in the society we live in. Teenagers are so susceptible to peer pressure, your family is very lucky if your kids get through high school, and college without exposure to sex, and drugs, for that matter.

Our family also doesn't believe you have to legally married to be in a life long committed relationship. My DH and I are not married, and we have a 2 year old DD, and we plan on having one more someday. We find no benefit in something our society does not make equally available to all it's citizens.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Just another vote for celibacy until and within marriage, though I am fully cognizant of the complications and difficulties involved in that choice.

Dh and I dated for five years and did wait until we were married to have sex. We're glad we waited now, but sometimes it seemed really ridiculous. We knew we wanted to get married, and the only reason we didn't was because we were both students and on our parents health insurance. So... the only reason we weren't having sex, really, was because of health insurance.

I will work very, very hard to prevent such a situation for my children. If one believes that abstinence before marriage is right and best (which I ABSOLUTELY do), then I think one also has to accept the reality of earlier marriage, which can sometimes effect your entire life-plans (college, housing, advanced degrees, etc). That's all very unpopular in our society, but IMO, our society and the people it's producing are not, in general, all that great. Just my .02, of course.

I will definitely be teaching my children that marriage, sex, and babies are connected, and I will be extremely upset if any of my daughters choose oral contraceptives. I believe them to be very unhealthy. No one I know IRL has _not_ suffered undesirable side effects from them.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't believe in marriage. I am not married to dp and most of my friends (with and without kids) are not married to their partners. We are also part of large queer community and so "marriage" isn't an option for a lot of people in our lives.

The most important things we will be teaching ds about sex are consent and safety.

Also that "sex" does not have to equal "intercourse" I think that is a huge flaw in a lot of reasoning. I think teaching my kid that there a lots of things you can do sexually and intercourse is one thing is important. It seems like "sex" is always presented as "there is kissing and then the who-who goes in the who-who" What about everything else????


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
Dh and I dated for five years and did wait until we were married to have sex. We're glad we waited now, but sometimes it seemed really ridiculous. We knew we wanted to get married, and the only reason we didn't was because we were both students and on our parents health insurance. So... the only reason we weren't having sex, really, was because of health insurance.

I will work very, very hard to prevent such a situation for my children. If one believes that abstinence before marriage is right and best (which I ABSOLUTELY do), then I think one also has to accept the reality of earlier marriage, which can sometimes effect your entire life-plans (college, housing, advanced degrees, etc). That's all very unpopular in our society, but IMO, our society and the people it's producing are not, in general, all that great. Just my .02, of course.

I actually have no problem with early marriage, or having children early, for that matter. The only reason I waited until I was 23 to get married was because of my ex-FIL. While that marriage didn't work out, it was for reasons that had very little to do with our age. I've seen couples marry in their late 20s or 30s and have very similar problems. I would have _happily_ had children sooner, too, but I had to get off the pill first...which brings me to:

Quote:

...and I will be extremely upset if any of my daughters choose oral contraceptives. I believe them to be very unhealthy. No one I know IRL has _not_ suffered undesirable side effects from them.
It seems a bit ironic, but the major side effect they had on me was to almost completely kill my libido. I _thought_ my ex and I were on about the same level with respect to sex drive, until I went off the pill. Oops. I also think the pill caused some weight gain. I'm actually heavier now than I was when I was on the pill, but I know _why_ now. Back then, it was a mystery.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Ok, I've only skimmed the replies.

Sex is a fine thing between consenting ADULTS. The problem with having sex too early, in addition to the obvious risks of STDs and pregnancy, is that it's an intense relationship that many teenagers are not ready for. I've seen too many teenagers plunge into sex before the relationship is 'ready' and then not be able to develop the relationship further because it becomes all about sex and not about a relationship.

I can't say that I will tell my children to abstain until marriage. That is what I was raised with, but I'm not sure it's what I believe. I will teach them to abstain until they're mature enough to handle raising a child, and possibly even until they're done with their education. I will make sure that they get plenty of time around infants/toddlers to make sure that they understand just how much work they are.

I will definitely teach them about birth control and that if you're having sex, it's YOUR job (whether you're male or female) to make sure that you and your partner are safe.

I'm of the opinion that all children need accurate, timely information about sex, birth control and STDs. On top of that, then parents should discuss their moral values concerning sex. If you strongly believe in abstinence until marriage, then please teach that. If you don't, then make sure you teach morals regarding sex. Teaching facts without morals or teaching morals without facts can be equally harmful for children.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deefodil* 
I think that sex is an entirely different thing than baby-making, and both are separate issues from marriage.

See, I don't think this way. Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be.

Quote:

For those of you who are teaching abstinence only, here's a link for you:
I don't understand. Why would this info change our ideals? I could also quote studies to those who will teach it's good to live together before marriage that show cohabitation increases the divorce rate significantly. But I didn't think we were here to argue others' opinions.

ETA: I didn't read it but I do agree with another poster's comment that it's on BIRTH rates, not pregnancy rates. That's a big difference.

As for me, I have no problem with my dd getting pregnant outside of marriage, but still I will teach abstinence because I believe sex is meant for marriage and when it is saved for marriage then it can be freely shared. (In other words - it's not dangerous, or has repercussions, or is risky...I don't think sex should be like that. It shouldn't have to be made "safe." It's one of the most amazing and wonderful things that has been given to us to share with our spouses, and using words like dangerous and risky cheapens it, IMHO.)


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Seasons* 
Accidentally-on-purpose leave books ("Our Bodies, Ourselves" and the like) in the house in accessible places?

I don't have that particular book, but I do have books, I have found them in her room, so she is reading.


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## Centura (Jul 15, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinuviel_k* 
How do I feel about sex? I am a pretty big fan of safe, consensual sex that is pleasurable for both people for people that are old enough to engage in it responsibly.

What does that mean for my children? It means that they will get the straight talk about sex, we will have frank discussions about safety, readiness, the risks, and how to listen to one's heart. When the time comes that my children plan to be sexually active they will have access to birth control and a safe place to have sex.

For me, waiting until marriage was absolutely not a choice that i was interested in. If my children would like to wait then I am fully in support of that, but I will definitly not be pushing them in that direction. *I know too many "good Christian kids" from my youth group that were very, very sexually active without their parent's knowledge, and a lot of mistakes were made because they did not have the education and access to safe birth control and safe spots.* I don't want that to happen with my children.









EXACTLY what I feel, know, and have experienced.

Children of all classes/religions/backgrounds end up having sex during their teens and early adulthood. And it is very sad that many of them have NO education about safety and risks. If they choose to do it out of spite, or other reasons and have knowledge, is one thing, but not teaching your kids about safety and risks about sex, is like telling them "you don't need a seat belt in the car, God will protect you"


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
Really, a lot of it for us has been random comments, like picking up a couple of condoms from a giveaway display and offering her one, just in case she ever needs it, while also mentioning that condoms do degrade over time and if she doesn't use it within the next 2 or 3 years she should probably toss it. And then I'd stop...

She would die if I handed her a condom, and my dh would probably kill me. I know she is so not ready for that, but when she is, I will.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
DS1 also reached that point a year or two ago. I basically said, "I'm telling you this, and then I'll shut up" and told him a few things I hadn't told him before (mostly about the way sex can create feelings of emotional intimacy that are far more intense than one might expect and to watch out for that). Since then, we've dropped it. He knows he can talk to me if he wants to, but I don't see any benefit in pushing against his comfort zone about his own sexuality. Frankly, I don't think he wants him mom to know he's a sexual human being, and I can understand that.

We had an ongoing, intermittent dialogue about sexual issues while he was growing up, and I'm just going to have to hope it "took". I do believe that watching me go through the hell I've gone through with the c-sections and the stillbirth has created an awareness of the possible ramifications of sex that goes _way_ beyond what most of his peers possess.


I did bring it up this morning. "Mom, you've been talking about this since I was this high". With the eyeroll.







And when I said we never talked about how she could protect herself I got "Mom, I'm trying to EAT".


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## Deefodil (May 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
Did I say that? No.


then I must have misunderstood. Could you please elaborate?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
See, I don't think this way. Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
Do you think she's done research on her own?

The few times my mom tried to give me the the "sex talk" I basically gave her the "you've got to be kidding" look. But, that was due to my family giving me a realistic grounding in the facts of sex when I was so young that I don't ever remember NOT knowing about it, and me satisfying my own further questions by seeking out and reading a bunch of books on sex/sexuality when I was 10-11. (I didn't check them out of the library, but nobody pays attention to the kid sitting on the floor in the stacks.)

Almost certainly, but it's things like how to get bc if needed, how to protect herself, how to know if it's right, that kind of non book stuff. I think after this morning I'll back off again.


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## Thisbirdwillfly (May 10, 2009)

Quote:

Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be.
Thanks for that. It's always nice to be reminded that my inferility makes me incapable of having sex the way it was meant to be.

I live in Texas. We are a strongly Abstinence only sex-ed state. We are in the top five in unplanned teenage pregnancy and number one in teenage girls having a second unplanned pregnancy. Not to metion the rate of STDs.

In my opinion, it should be criminal to make ignorance the basis of sexual education in public schools. In my experience of attending a Catholic high school, we most certainly had sex and had abortions, inspite of our parents and educators fervent belief that both were extremely rare events. Some of my classmates even believed it. Denial is very powerful.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
See, I don't think this way. Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be.

Don't you mean "Leave out one aspect and it is no longer sex the way I believe it was meant to be"?

Cos I can tell you for sure I've left babymaking out of sex for years now, and it's way better than when babymaking is a factor for me. Of course, I believe sex should be enjoyable, not just a way to populate the earth.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
See, I don't think this way. Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be.

I don't understand. Why would this info change our ideals? I could also quote studies to those who will teach it's good to live together before marriage that show cohabitation increases the divorce rate significantly. But I didn't think we were here to argue others' opinions.

ETA: I didn't read it but I do agree with another poster's comment that it's on BIRTH rates, not pregnancy rates. That's a big difference.

As for me, I have no problem with my dd getting pregnant outside of marriage, but still I will teach abstinence because I believe sex is meant for marriage and when it is saved for marriage then it can be freely shared. (In other words - it's not dangerous, or has repercussions, or is risky...I don't think sex should be like that. It shouldn't have to be made "safe." It's one of the most amazing and wonderful things that has been given to us to share with our spouses, and using words like dangerous and risky cheapens it, IMHO.)

So will you not teach her about STDs and if she does choose to have sex, how to lessen her risk of contracting them?


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## Thisbirdwillfly (May 10, 2009)

As for my own son, we believe that sexuality is simply one of the many things we needed to be open, honest and up front about. We've taught him that his body is his own, that he needs to respect his own body and soul. That he should show that same respect for his parnters body.

Instead of teaching him that sex* is right or wrong in certain situations, we've taught him that he is responsible for himself and that we hope he'll make choices that respect his values and not just spur of the moment decisions. Lastly, we have taught him that what he does with his body is no ones business, including ours.

*I think the whole notion that only the act that can create another life is sex to be, well, out-dated to say the least. Sex can mean nearly anything. Again, it's something for my son to decide for himself.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Interesting to find out I've been doing sex wrong for years too...


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Elaborate? Okay.

I believe sex is meant BOTH to share an expression of love for the purpose of uniting couples AND to be open to new life. If one of those aspects is gone, then sex is...how do I say this?....used wrongly? That's what my kids will learn as well.

That's the Catholic Church and supposedly Catholics such as myself don't believe in sex before marriage, because it removes the unitive act. (There is no spouse to unite to further with sex). And that's why the Catholic Church allows only the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy. (NFP still allows the act to be open to life if it so happens, whereas other contraceptives create a physical barrier.)

But you quoted me wrong. I said: _Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be._

And you quoted me as saying: _sex is only for babymaking?_

Of course it's not.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *To-Fu* 
Irishmommy, you know what I'd do if she just isn't open to talking with you right now? (And it may be temporary--gads, 15 was SUCH an awkward age for me.) I'd send her somewhere that she can get the info.

One place she could find both personal experience and evidence-based information sharing in a safe space is at VaginaPagina.com. There is also a wiki with all kinds of very carefully researched (and fully cited) info, as well. Almost as good as VP is Scarleteen, although I admit to coming across misinformation there from time to time. They're very different places, but both quite active and full of smart young women with a positive approach.

Both of the forums/sites I linked would allow her to talk honestly and openly both with her peers and more experienced, smart women who can help her learn about this crazy new world. Maybe after she does some exploring and info-gathering on her own, she'll be ready to unplug her ears with you and slow down on the la-la-las.










Thanks for the links.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thisbirdwillfly* 
Thanks for that. It's always nice to be reminded that my inferility makes me incapable of having sex the way it was meant to be.

OPEN to life. You don't have to physically have babies to be OPEN to life during the sexual act, and all that means is barrier-free.

Quote:

So will you not teach her about STDs and if she does choose to have sex, how to lessen her risk of contracting them?
Of course my kids will learn about STDs, and the ONLY moral way for us as Catholics to prevent them is through abstinence.

I don't really appreciate everyone picking on me because I shared what I think sex is, just as everyone else here has done. I haven't jumped down the throats of anyone here who thinks differently. Religious discrimination? Apparently.









I am entitled to my own beliefs, and calling me narrow minded or old fashioned seems to me very uncharitable, considering I haven't said anything unkind in regard to your own views.

Furthermore, I wasn't of the mind that this thread was a debate thread or a pick-each-other apart kind of thread, but a thread to share thoughts. Which I've done.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
Elaborate? Okay.

I believe sex is meant BOTH to share an expression of love for the purpose of uniting couples AND to be open to new life. If one of those aspects is gone, then sex is...how do I say this?....used wrongly? That's what my kids will learn as well.

That's the Catholic Church and supposedly Catholics such as myself don't believe in sex before marriage, because it removes the unitive act. (There is no spouse to unite to further with sex). And that's why the Catholic Church allows only the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy. (NFP still allows the act to be open to life if it so happens, whereas other contraceptives create a physical barrier.)

But you quoted me wrong. I said: _Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be._

And you quoted me as saying: _sex is only for babymaking?_

Of course it's not.

Ok, so... DH and I are doing it right cause we are open to children being produced no matter how unlikely it is them.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I want to remind everyone to be respectful of differing opinions on this subject.


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## Thisbirdwillfly (May 10, 2009)

Quote:

Interesting to find out I've been doing sex wrong for years too...
And yet you still have children. Will wonders never cease?









I do believe that the way we raised our son in terms of sexuality is part of why he was very casual about it when he came out. Looking back on it, I am so thankful that we were careful to include all different kinds of families in our definition of it.

Someday, I hope, I'll be a grandmother. I do not know how my son someday will build his family but I do know that they will be a family because it will be built on love. And I am fighting to make sure that where ever they live, they will legally be a family as well.


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## Deefodil (May 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
Elaborate? Okay.

I believe sex is meant BOTH to share an expression of love for the purpose of uniting couples AND to be open to new life. If one of those aspects is gone, then sex is...how do I say this?....used wrongly? That's what my kids will learn as well.

That's the Catholic Church and supposedly Catholics such as myself don't believe in sex before marriage, because it removes the unitive act. (There is no spouse to unite to further with sex). And that's why the Catholic Church allows only the use of NFP to avoid pregnancy. (NFP still allows the act to be open to life if it so happens, whereas other contraceptives create a physical barrier.)

But you quoted me wrong. I said: _Sex and babymaking (being open to life, anyway) are equal. Sex both unites and creates. Leave out one aspect and it's no longer sex the way it was meant to be._

And you quoted me as saying: _sex is only for babymaking?_

Of course it's not.

I quoted you correctly, Sancta. But then I also paraphrased you, in a way that you disagreed with.

Thank you for elaborating. I think some of the other posters have expressed how I feel about that opinion well enough that I don't need to.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Ok, so... DH and I are doing it right cause we are open to children being produced no matter how unlikely it is them.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I am teaching my kids that sex is best delayed until they are physically, mentally, and emotionally ready for it--ideally until college and in a serious relationship, IMO. I'm stressing contraception in a major way, as I certainly hope my children don't get pregnant until they have completed their educations and are financially prepared to raise children. I'm not raising grandchildren.

Virginity means nothing to us and I would expect (and sort of hope) that my kids are not virgins when they get married. While I don't think sex before marriage is a guarantee of anything, it's another big piece of information about a potential partner that I think is better to know before being wed.

I've got three neighbors in my development who have children who had children while they were in their teens. All three families are fundamentalist Christians who stressed no sex until marriage. I guess that didn't work out so well.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Again, please be respectful of other people's opinions whether you agree or not. Respectful discusion is encouraged, but religious bigotry and baiting posts are not. Further posting in this manner will lead to alerts and the thread will be closed for good. Thanks for your cooperation.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
I believe sex is meant BOTH to share an expression of love for the purpose of uniting couples AND to be open to new life. If one of those aspects is gone, then sex is...how do I say this?....used wrongly?

I don't know why people are jumping on you, as everyone has their own beliefs. I will say that the way this is phrased actually felt like a punch in the gut. I had a tubal three months ago, partly because dh and I really don't feel that we can afford any more kids, financially or emotionally...but mostly because he and i were both terrified for both my health and my _life_ if I got pregnant again after all the problems I've had around my births and my babies. It's kind of hard to hear that I'm using sex wrongly because I don't want to die, yk?


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't know why people are jumping on you, as everyone has their own beliefs. I will say that the way this is phrased actually felt like a punch in the gut. I had a tubal three months ago, partly because dh and I really don't feel that we can afford any more kids, financially or emotionally...but mostly because he and i were both terrified for both my health and my _life_ if I got pregnant again after all the problems I've had around my births and my babies. It's kind of hard to hear that I'm using sex wrongly because I don't want to die, yk?

Listen, this thread is called WHAT'S YOUR VIEW? I'm as equally ticked about the mockery going on about those of us who want to use abstinence education as some of you may be ticked about me sharing my views.

Somewhere, somehow, someone's views are probably going to offend someone else. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't know what else to say.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Further discussion regarding religious beliefs should be taken to the Religious Studies forum. In order to be within the User Agreement, any new discussion started should not reference this thread or members' posts, attitudes, behavior, etc. Please PM me or any Parenting forum moderator with further questions, thanks!

Quote:

The Mothering website is the gathering place for the reading and discussion of issues of interest to our magazine readers and online community members. We have been in print since 1974, and on the web since 1998. The magazine is read in over 70 countries. Our community is made up of many nationalities, religions, ages, colors, ethnicities, philosophies, affectional orientations, economic groups, lifestyles, and family structures. This is reflected in our magazine readership and in the online community of the MotheringDotCommunity.

Mothering celebrates the experience of parenthood as worthy of one's best efforts and fosters awareness of the immense importance and value of family life in the development of the full human potential of parents and children. At Mothering we recognize parents as experts and seek to provide truly helpful information upon which parents can make informed choices. Mothering is both a fierce advocate of the needs and rights of the child and a gentle supporter of the parents, and we encourage decision-making that considers the needs of all family members. We explore the reality of human relationships in the family setting, recognizing that raising the heirs of our civilization well is the prerequisite for a healthy society.

Mothering advocates natural family living, including the ancient way of being with babies and children that is known today as attachment parenting. This way is reliant on the inherent integrity of children and the inviolate intuition of parents. The family is the dominion of parents and children and authoritative knowledge rests with them. This website is a place to safely explore all the aspects involved in such a parenting philosophy.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Sex should be safe and consensual. That is basically it to me.

I am all about safe sex because it isnt only for after marriage, I cant count the people that have had issues with having pregnancies or STDs that could have been avoided if they had more information on HOW to even within a marriage.

My children have the right to chose what they do with their body. I hope that I have taught them enough so that they can prevent any issues or that they trust me enough to come to me if they ever have any issues that so arise.

I guess to us sex is not that big a deal. I do not put great value on virginity and my children are worth more than their status as virgins or not.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't know why people are jumping on you, as everyone has their own beliefs. I will say that the way this is phrased actually felt like a punch in the gut. I had a tubal three months ago, partly because dh and I really don't feel that we can afford any more kids, financially or emotionally...but mostly because he and i were both terrified for both my health and my _life_ if I got pregnant again after all the problems I've had around my births and my babies. It's kind of hard to hear that I'm using sex wrongly because I don't want to die, yk?

I had the same reaction with the first quote in question because (for very obvious reasons) there is no creation going on and barring a miracle, there never will be. It's equally hard to hear that you are using it wrong because of who you fell in love with. And for some PP just as hard to hear it's being used wrong because of what can only be discribed as an act of God.

As I have (hopefully) explained my reaction, I will now bow out of the actual conversation.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I am closing this thread.


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