# My DD is getting very violent. I dont know what to do anymore.



## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

I came here to quickly tell you what just happened. My DD`s are 3.5.
They just had a fight,and I heard a scream, NO! NO! NO! NO! shriek. By the time I got there,DD~J had DD~T by the hair and was tring to throw her down the stairs! I picked up T and held her close. DD~J kept yelling, NO! I WANT TO PUSH T DOWN THE STAIRS! I took her and brought her into the laundry room with me for a time out. Something we have had to do alot lately. Then after she calmed down a bit,we talkes about it and she said, NO< I want to push T down the stairs,and she will get a big owie and she will have to go ot the doctors. " well my dd`s are petrified of the doc and this talk upset dd~t so bad!

Mamas,I did not know what to do! My instinct was to protect T from the verbal abuse as wel as the physical. She is being attacked in her own home.









I told dd~j that I beleive in her and that I believe that she does not want to really want to hurt she sister so she has to get a big owie and that its OK for her to feel mad or even angry but it is not ok to hurt. To use her words then walk away.
She does use her words,but it doesnt help her to stop the hitting. She just then insteads has a running commentary about what she is going to do ot her,and the very same second she is doing it.

This is getting more and more(everyday) and it has gotten our family so borken up.

P.S
NO wthey are playing as happy as before!

These moods are so UP and down!

Help please!


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## China white (Mar 29, 2004)

What a difficult (and frightening!) situation to find yourself in!

First of all, take a deep breath, and congratulate yourself for responding so quickly and calmly. I *know* for a fact that I would have been so scared for my daughter, that I probably wouldn't have been clear headed enough to hold my anger in check. You deserve a big pat on the back for that one.









I wish I had some wise words with respect to siblings fighting, except to say it is a universal occurance. I would tend to chalk it up to the age, and not really understanding the consequences of their actions, although I don't know the dynamics of their relationship, so that may not apply. I found 3 to be such a difficult age (2 was a breeze in comparison!).

For what it's worth, I think you handled it perfectly, and although you may have to repeat it for what seems like an eternity, eventually your children will "get it". You gave your daughter permission to feel the way she felt, and modeled the correct way to express those feelings with words instead of hands.

I know this doesn't solve the problem, but I just wanted to let you know I think you did a great job in this situation, and hopfully I'll remember to keep my cool the next time I'm in your shoes!

Cw.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

wringer as of late
with the fire, moving etc
is it possible that now you have some stability they are a little nervous of the other foot dropping/
I am the first one to holler play therapist but not run out and say get counseling
but I am wondering if all you have been through that maybe some would help all of you?

maybe the owie with the dr makes her feel lthat out of control she can feel back in control?

Just keep doing what you are doing I know that is tiring..maybe see if dh can take one one night for a few then the next night is yours with the other girl then switch?


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Thanks for the encouragement girls.









Yes, we have been through alot lately, so I do know where this is coming from and quite frankly I almost cannot blame her for feeling so out of control and acting this way. Yes, councelling is happening righ tnow in this house as my dh`s health insurance has kicked in. The therapist has warned us of this,but she also thinks that locking her in her room is a good action to take. NOT ME! What has got me is _HOW_ do I deal with the situation right then and there?! ?! I want DD~T to know that she can feel safe in her own home(especially now), AND let DD~J know voilence is NOT OK, while trying to be understanding and comforting to her all the while not causing any animosity between the two or jealously feelings.
OH BOY I have my hands full dont I?

It is a great idea having one on one time and we do it when ever possible,but see I am now a married, single parent. My husband is a paycheck. This new boss of his has broken every part of his contract except dh`s wage. Unfortunately we see way to less of him. Yet another reason my DD~j and T are out of sorts.

ANY more ides or thoughts would be so greatful!
Please even if you think it is silly chances are its not to me.!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

okay. first of all, you handled it EXTREMELY WELL.

well my children get consequences if they intentionally hurt ot attempt to hurt each other or themselves. the consequence depends on the child. i think you could introduce this to the girls but be prepared to have to follow up a lot in the next few days or so...

call me if you want chica. you still have my number?










Peace,


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

I think you should be watching your children all the time if terrors like that happen! What if you didn't arrive in time and dd had actually thrown dd down the stairs?

Be always in the same room as them so you know what problem triggers the anger. Then you could offer them help if a conflict arises before it becomes extreme. Try not to take charge but asking questions on how they can solve their problem so everyone is happy and giving little hints on how they can get along without hurting one another.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Leonor~ this morning I am too tired to deal with you properly, but I just needed to say this. If you think I can be in the room with my two 24/7 then you need a quick reality check!

Hotmama~







Thanks! yes, I do still have your number. I was thinking of calling ya lastnight but didnt see ya here so I thought Id better not!









Now with the two of my babies, I have gotten 1 hour of sleep in total. I came here for a quick break of nursing and now I must go back. I will return later.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by charmarty_
*Leonor~ this morning I am too tired to deal with you properly, but I just needed to say this. If you think I can be in the room with my two 24/7 then you need a quick reality check!*
I disagree. Yes you can be in the same room with them every waking moment. I have a daycare and when there is a child acting agressive that child is my constant copanion. That child has to follow me from room to room, moving the object(s) he/she is playing with along with us. You do whatever it takes to keep your children safe, even if it's difficult, tiring or unpleasant. Even if it means you can't potty by yourself. With my daycare kids the longest I've had to do it is a week. I'm open 11 hours. If I can do this for 11 hours while taking care of 7 other children as well, I'm sure you can find a way to do it with your own 2 children. Baby gates are your friend. If it's truly only one child being agressive, that is the child that needs to shadow you. If your other child breaks her neck and dies from getting thrown down the stairs you won't think I or the PP needed a reality check.

I'm frustrated for you. We've had similar probs with our son, but luckily his sister is almost 4 years older than him. He's had to shadow me a few times though because of acting out to the daycare kids. He's learned that watching me do all of my chores isn't nearly as fun as playing with other kids.

-Heather

-Heather


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

ok, I am NOT going to make this into a debate. I CANNOT be in the same room as them! You do not know what kind of house I live! You do not know what goes on in my day. Please dont think I dont want to be in the same room as them cuz I do,and I know it would help,but it also has hapened with me right there! Even if I am in the same room, I will have my attention averted to somewhere else like cooking. So, can we all just stop the topic of ME always being in the same room as them. I am happy for you if you say you can. I could then use your extra arms and legs here.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

so you really don't want advice then? because more supervision is the best advice you'll get in a situation like this.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Hi there

Sorry to hear about your problems. You might consider taking her to see a homeopathic practitioner, homeopathy can really help when emotions are out of balance whatever the cause. Well, thats what I would do, and it is helpful, in addition to working with the child of course. There are some helpful books out there too if taking her to see someone is not an option.

Anyhow just a suggestion!

Destinye


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

Aw, guys, let's stop ganging up on the OP, ok...

I was thinking that maybe J really did want T to be hurt. Think about yourself. Have you ever been so mad at something that you think that you want another person hurt? You never act on it because you're an adult and you know how to control that urge. Unfortunately, anger and violence are part of human nature and one of the ways we release our angry emotions.

You might want to explain to T that, yes, sometimes we get so mad that we want to hurt someone, but we NEVER try to do it. It's even ok to feel that way, but we don't act on that.
IT sounds like she got overwelmed with anger and needed to take it out on someone. I am very impressed she could explain to you why she wanted to hurt her sister. That's quite mature.

Can you set up another way for her to get out her anger? Maybe a punching doll or something? Or when she gets that angry and wants to hurt her sister, do jumping jacks to get the energy out?

As an adult, I started making bread to get out agression. The kneading of the dough took alot of energy and I put all of my anger into the dough and then I felt much better...

I also agree with you, you cannot always be in the same room with your kids. Some people may be able to do it, but I sure can't and I only have 1!


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

moondance, Id say you need one based on that one scentence. HOW could you say that? To anybody!?! You know, I had a friend whos baby FELL OFF the balcony while her mom was right there. She died.I just cant wrap my head around HOW you could say that to another mother! You dont even know me.

Quote:

If your other child breaks her neck and dies from getting thrown down the stairs you wont think I or the PP needed a reality check.
Destyne~that is agreat idea! My girls are treated by a HP right now. I just never thought of putting the two together!Thanks.

Foo~ Yes, I agree 100% In fact, I tried th ejumping Jax thing today. I told her to say namaste over and over. She did and it got her to laugh! We do Yoga here for kids and they always laugh but it seems to center them. Helped me too.

Thank you everybody for you r wonderful pm`s as well. warms my heart to know I have sisters here.

I think play hterapy is a great way to help as well and I was on the phone to the town councelling center today. They also mentioned hypnotherapy again. Its worth a try although I have to look into it more and providing they are at a place to fell comfortable enough with the elected person.

Today (although they had very little sleep) was an Ok day.Our vans transmission blew and they thought htat was so cool it kept htem preoccupied talking about it and fixing thier broken cars. :LOL!


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

I think you are handling this wonderfully!!!!








And I agree with giving ddJ something to take her anger and frustration on. Soleil learned to yell into her pillow, and sometimes hit it a few times. She hasn't had to do this for a while now, she's 41/2.
Just keep validating, and giving other ways of expressing anger!!!
Hugs to you.
Keep on keeping on.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

Is OT part of their therapy? THe compressions might help a bit

when ds was doing OT and needed to learn diversions
he ended up picking out a gorgeous set of wind chimes wahen he was at the point that it was partially put on him

When he could realize a meltdown coming on or in the middle of one before it got severe he would get his chimes and gently swing them

This may be totally off base but I just thought of it

moondiapers if the one child is your shadow where are the others during that time> do they all be your shadow? I know a lady that used one of the handle ropes to keep them with her at all times but it made br breaks and making lunch hard,,,


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:

moondance, Id say you need one based on that one scentence. HOW could you say that? To anybody!?! You know, I had a friend whos baby FELL OFF the balcony while her mom was right there.
I'd say she wasn't there enough or the balcony wasn't protected well enough. I'm sorry for that mother and her baby, but neglect has to be called neglect!


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

son do the same?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Charmarty -- Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry?" You might want to get ahold if it -- its a quick read and has lots of helpful suggestions.

I also think you handled the situation beautifully.

One suggestion in the book that comes to mind for your sitation: Lots of listening... and no judgement. With a 3 yo. -- listening has to be reflective, I think. _"You are so angry with your sister. You are angry enough to hurt her!"_ No judging her feelings -- just hearing her out and letting her *get it all out.* (Never in front of T, of course! Privately.) Its *really* hard for a mother to listen to one child saying hateful mean things about another. I can hardly stand it sometimes. But I have learned that sometimes they just need a safe person to "vent" their feelings to. And that once they feel "heard" and understood, then they no longer feel a need to act on those feelings. I've been surprised at how well it works for us.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

CL~ OT? for the life of me I cant figure out what it stands for







: NEEDS SLEEP...........

mamaduck~Yes, I used to own it. I must get another copy! I use some of the suggestions but I really could use a refresher.

I LOVE your suggestion about just letting her let it out. What I think I would find hard about that is refraining from saying, Its ok to be mad, its NOT ok to hurt. I feel like I have to keep driving that message home to her. I will refrain from doing that and see how this works!

Thanks mamas


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Hi again

At my infant massage class this AM the teacher was telling us about an aggressive child, about your daughter's age and how massage helped totally turn her around so maybe worth considering along with everything else.

Destinye


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

occupational therapy


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

CL~







Thanks! Great idea.!
I will look into that.

Destyne~ Massage is a great idea and I used to do infant massage, but they dont care much for it now(too busy ya know!) for them to get the full benefits. hmmm I wonder if I did lots of mini massgaes during th eday? I wonder if it would be as effective????
P.S







T
We used to have an African Grey named Buddy and a Moloccuan Cockatoo named Bella. They were my first babies and I love them an dmiss them VERY much. We had to give them away when my girls were about 3 months old due to thier prematurity and breathing difficulties as well as I coul dnot offer to care for them and give them the attention they so deserve and need. I still keep in touch with th eppl who have them and I knwo they are very well cared for. It still breaks my heart though.
You Grey is soo cute! Is he a Timneh (SP?) Grey?


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Hi there

I am sure doing mini-massages when you get a chance would help her. I cannot imagine having twins! They thought I was for a while but turned out to be one.

Solo is a Congo African Gray. I can imagine you miss your birds a lot, Moloccuan Cockatoo's are wonderful and so sweet. But birds DO need a lot of time and attention that's for sure!

Destinye


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## MaWhit (Jan 5, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamaduck_
*Charmarty -- Have you read "Siblings Without Rivalry?" You might want to get ahold if it -- its a quick read and has lots of helpful suggestions.

I also think you handled the situation beautifully.

One suggestion in the book that comes to mind for your sitation: Lots of listening... and no judgement. With a 3 yo. -- listening has to be reflective, I think. "You are so angry with your sister. You are angry enough to hurt her!" No judging her feelings -- just hearing her out and letting her get it all out. (Never in front of T, of course! Privately.) Its *really* hard for a mother to listen to one child saying hateful mean things about another. I can hardly stand it sometimes. But I have learned that sometimes they just need a safe person to "vent" their feelings to. And that once they feel "heard" and understood, then they no longer feel a need to act on those feelings. I've been surprised at how well it works for us.*
Yes, what she said.









Also, rule out food allergies or sensitivities to food dyes, both of which can exacerbate agressive behavior.

When the violence occurs, do not give any of the immediate attention to the offender. Save that discussion for later. Instead, go straight to the victim, smothering them with loving and sympathy.


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

I have no advice, I have one child and no experience with this situation from a parent perspective.

I just wanted to say, hang in there. I tried to rip my brother's hair out on several occasions, once tried to drown him in the tub, I was horrible at times. I yelled horrible things etc. I also loved him fiercely. We are very close in age. My mother did separate us in the intense moments etc. but we shared a room until I was 6 and he was 5. We are very close and laugh over some of the growing up moments. I have no idea why I reacted the way I did to him, I remember just feeling amazingly frustrated. We did not have a violent home or anything, my mom was very gentle etc. My mom did work with me on this and yes I did stop the insanity. I do not have any rationale as to why your daughter is doing this etc but you sound like you are checking all options and your concern alone will help both daughters feel safe. just my opinion.

lula


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

T

Congo African Greys -one of the few animals that I will never be able to think of without shuddering....


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Whit~ good idea too! But I am very strick with what my dds eat. We are trying to help them to recover from vaccine damage









lula~ Thank you! you helped me feel better!









destinye~ Buddy is a congo too. You grey just looked a little smaller.







I really do miss them.

CL~ :LOL WHY? preytel. I hope we didnt freak you out too much!

I dont know if this has anythign to do with it but since I posted this DD~J the next day went off and running with potty training. Usually its her sister who is interested, but DD~T has kinda stopped and then all of a sudden DD~J is doing it and really going for it too! Since then, her agressiveness has really slowed down and the last 2 days there has been 0% fighting. Maybe a developmental thing? I know when they were ounger and they would face a challenge like eg: learningot walk, they were up all night for a few days, cranky teh next days amd then, boom it stopped and the very same time they would judt get up and walk! So maybe?????


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

Quote:

dont know if this has anythign to do with it but since I posted this DD~J the next day went off and running with potty training. Usually its her sister who is interested, but DD~T has kinda stopped and then all of a sudden DD~J is doing it and really going for it too! Since then, her agressiveness has really slowed down and the last 2 days there has been 0% fighting
Maybe the frustration of her sister succeeding before her? Sounds like a strong possibility!!!!!
Keep up the mindful parenting mama!!!!


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

Thanks mama!









Today she had dropped the whole thing! I am very laid back and I am letting them take the lead with the potty training since there is so much going on in our life right now. But today still NO fighting and I have had to let them be on thier own so to say cuz I have been handling alot of Insurance stuff today.


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## LaLa (Nov 18, 2001)

well, my bean is not aggressive like that, but she has her own issues and having different spaces for the two girls really helps them both at times.

I have gates on certain rooms, primarily to prevent my girls from falling down our wooden staircase, but also it gives the children time on their own to play ever day. If bean gets to a certain point she wants to work on her own, and her sister being there just gets her so mad. So then she plays in her room and comes back down in a fantastic mood.

And when bella has the living room to herself, she really enjoys exploring and playing, but when bean is there, she hardly plays at all...just follows bean around wanting whatever toys bean is using.

So, it does help us to have time apart.

Also, active play helps get those aggressions out!
We broke down and got a bounce round for bean to jump in daily so regardless of the weather, we get plenty of jumping!

The active play helps her quite a bit.

She is also seeing an OT for sensory issues, and that ties into the need for active play for her.

I'm not sure if that helps at all.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

*


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

lol LaLa, we`ve been through 3 Bouncy castles in our house! We love them here too.

They share a room, but we have bought them a tent each for pirvacy, and they each have a large closet they hang out in whne they need thier space. Both places are called thier time out rooms. They go there all on thier own free will.

It was funny, in this house we talk alot about having space. needing space ect....when dh even comes home in a grumoy mood or we are grumoy with each other, I will say to him in front of the kids I need my space right now.So you get the picture we use it alot. So the other day, they are playing in thier play room and the door closes. So I go to open it again. DD~T quiclky comes to the door to say " Mama, I need some space. You need to get out." They spent an HOUR playing in there.







Not one fight, not one scrabble. Every thing that came up as a conflict they TALKED about! ON thier own!!!!!! They came out of there even closer than before. (if that is even possible)
This is how one conversation went in there
T~ NO I want this car to drive over there
J~NO I want it to drive here
T~ you made me sad today
J~ I made you sad today?
T~ya
J~sorry sister
T~but thats ok

and they went on playing.









where did my babies go?


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

That's beautiful I have a feeling you will be dealing with a lot of passion between these two. How can they not be passionate, about each other, in each and every sense of the word!!!








Keep being the best mama, they'll continue to grown forever, it never stops!!!


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

that bird was EVIL !!
She also thought she was exdh's MATE.
She would attack me at the desk and swoop my head.
Then she would peck the snot out of my feet -after me not knowing he had let her out and she would prowl around and hide
then
WHAM

Pulled my hair , bit my fingers

All while idjet brain telling me "she likes you ( NOT) she just has to get used to you "

after that I didn't want to be around a Congo grey ever again ! and I love animals !


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