# Am I crazy...I just threw out sandbox sand out?



## girlsmamma2 (Jul 12, 2005)

Ok, I woke up at 3 am this morning because I had made my kids their annual sandbox they have had ever since they were small. Something suddenly made me feel uneasy about it when I was dumping the sand in yesterday. They loved it, especially my 3 yo ds, and played in it for 3 hours. I felt so horrible not having it this year but I couldn't stop worrying.

For years I've seen the sand (from toys r us) say "safe, non toxic , pure, clean, natural" blah blah blah. But then it's made with silica. No asbestos, gee thanks, but I still don't like the silica. I realize every sand is silica but I remember when my husband was retiling our bathroom he used a board made with the same stuff and he had a mask and made the kids stay far from it and it's dust. So how can they play in the same stuff? When I dumped it in, you feel a fine powder rise up and it just didn't feel right. I know it's a known carcinogen, and I got up at 3 am and did a few hours of research on it only to find myself as soon as the sun came up, shoveling it out of the sandbox into yard waste bags to be hauled off today.

Am I overreacting or is there a real danger in this stuff? I know in California there would have been a carcinogen warning label on the stuff but not in our state. I just don't want to have to worry about my kids having black lung miners disease from years upon years of playing in a sandbox. I feel horrible for taking it away from them, they love it so much every year. We keep it covered and very clean and I don't let them play in the park sandboxes, just ours. So did I overreact or was I right in not wanting them to play in it all summer long, for hours on end, be it in open air or not? what do you all think?


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I think you're over reacting.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't worry about playground sand, but there are safe (non-silica-containing) sand sources available online if you Google it. Taking the whole sandbox away isn't the only option.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

I've never been concerned about my daughter using play sand outdoors. I'm quite certain she will not get black lung from it.


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## Red Pajama (Jun 11, 2007)

I don't worry about play sand. If it worries you, keep the sand moist, as it's the dust one would worry about, if one was to worry.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Given that sandboxes are not exactly a new invention, and neither is sand, I think we would already know if it caused black lung. Trust me, some lawyer would have a lawsuit going in a nano-second if it did! (My husband does asbestos litigation -- I can say this very tongue-in-check but seriously too). Silica is a natural substance. It is dangerous to breath as a small particulate. But so is chalk, coal, and flour for that matter. But last I checked sand box sand was too large to breath. Even the the dust from the bottom of the bag isn't really small enough to breath in. Different from the small-particle dust produced by industrial processes (including home renovation). I think banning sandboxes for the sand part is probably over-reacting a bit.

That said, I stopped because I couldn't keep it clean from animal waste, and that did bug me.


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## babymommy2 (May 14, 2009)

I think you are completely over reacting. Children have been playing in sand forever, how many cases of black lung do you know of? I am curious, will you also ban going to the beach? Think of it as risk vs. benefit. All the benfits of sand play, the fun, the pouring, the dumping, the use of imagination, the endless lessons in physics, vs a pretty miniscule chance of it making you sick. I personally think the benefits FAR outweigh the risks


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I think you're overreacting, but then anything that you're worried about and I'm not must be overreacting, right?







.

What about beach sand? That's what's in our sandbox. It's finer than the ToysRUs sand and gets EVERYWHERE. Or you could spring for the safe sand super expensive, but free of the kind of silica people are worried about. Warning: it's $60 for 50 lbs. and to fill up our sandbox, we'd need about 300 lbs. That's why we have beach sand.


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't like sand.







If you don't want to have sand because of your concern, I know that a big pile of dirt is just as much fun. You can have organic, sifted compost delivered. Then, as it dissipates all over the yard, it is just a good thing. Mud is a problem, but I prefer mud to gritty sand in the house.

And, you ARE probably overreacting, but we all have our quirks. (Mine happens to be an abhorrence of plastic toys; my relatives think I'm nuts.







)


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

I don't worry about it. The people who get silicosis are people who work with the dust for years and years, doing things that put a lot of dust in the air, like dumping and mixing large volumes of sand, sand blasting, cutting materials with power tools that put a lot of dust in the air, etc.

When our kids play in the sand, they are outside and not sitting in clouds of it. They're pushing it around not tossing it in the air to breath in, and half the time they wet it down to built sand castles.

A lot of play sand is a complete rip off. The only real difference is that it's sterilized, which is may be reasonable if you're using it indoors with very small kids, but it's silly if you're going to dump it in your backyard. Safe sand does have all of the fine dust removed, but I just don't think it's worth it.

Every inch of this state seems to labeled with those proposition 65 labels about cancer and birth defects known to the state of California. If the labels bother you it's pretty difficult to leave your house here. The parking garage at Disney has one, and so do some of the food pavilions at Sea World because the process of cooking the food produces trace amounts of chemical on the list of those "known to the state of California."


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

As a geologist I don't worry about it. The "safe sand" is made from feldspar which is a mineral that still has silica in its composition as opposed to most other sands which are made of quartz. Beach sand is no better, it is still made up mostly of quartz (silica). I don't know that breathing in feldspar dust is any better than breathing in silica dust. I keep the sand wet to minimize the dust. Have you thought about pea gravel as an option?


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snoopy5386* 
Have you thought about pea gravel as an option?

I would think hard before you get pea gravel if you don't want little pebbles all over the yard. Also, when I was a teacher, it was always the pea gravel that got put up the noses.


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## vegemamato (Jul 4, 2007)

I thought your post was going to say that you made the sandbox at 3am...







I was thinking "this is one crafty mama!"

eeenyway.

I like the dirt idea









I've never worried about sand, but we've also never had our own sandbox. If there is a health concern, however, I'm sure some green companies would sell 'good' sand (like another pp mentioned)..

What do the kids think?


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I think you're overreacting, since you asked, but hey, if it worries you it worries you.

There are other options. Keep the sandbox. Research new filllers.


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## bugginsmom (Aug 4, 2005)

Since you asked, yeah I think you are over reacting. It's sand...and outdoors...not like it is in a small enclosed room with no ventilation, kwim?


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I get safe sand at a local store. It's cheaper that way since the shipping costs so much. We only need a little though since we just have a small sand table to fill.


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## Princess ConsuelaB (Apr 11, 2008)

I too think you are overreacting, just a bit







Step off the pavement and look below your feet. Walk on the beach, and look below your feet. Take a gaze into the air in a sunbeam.

If this were a problem we'd all be dead and our race would no longer exist.







Kids have been playing in sand a loooong time.

And then there's this, anymore can we name anything that DOESN'T "cause" cancer? Very little. I'm one to keep my family safe, but there is almost a thing as "too much" knowledge.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Princess ConsuelaB* 
I too think you are overreacting, just a bit







Step off the pavement and look below your feet. Walk on the beach, and look below your feet. Take a gaze into the air in a sunbeam.

If this were a problem we'd all be dead and our race would no longer exist.







Kids have been playing in sand a loooong time.

And then there's this, anymore can we name anything that DOESN'T "cause" cancer? Very little. I'm one to keep my family safe, but there is almost a thing as "too much" knowledge.









The play sand from places like Toys R Us is *not* the naturally occuring sand that has been around since the dawn of man. It is man made, and differs from natural sand.


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## BellaClaudia (Aug 1, 2008)

I can feel your pain. I am in the same exact mental spot as you are...

I have my sand box empty waiting for some other soutions.

I do not feel you are overreacting because what happened to us last two seasons was really strange.. every time my child would play in the sand box
I would worry abou inhaling dust knowing that it is no too kosher thing in any case silica or not.. jsut because it is a dust.. and once in the lungs no way out..

so I would add water to the sand box at liberty and so let the kid add just as well as much as she wanted till the point of making mud..

effect: every time there was a mud.. kiddo ended up with the rash..
??? I relly thought it was some coincidence so we did trial and error..
and guess what.. like a charm!

I red some more and found info that the silica is only part of the porblem.. actually they also add some pesticides and whatever so the sand won't get spoiled so to speak.. and that bugs will keep away or whateve.. some nasty stuff.. in whatever mintue amounts..

so dry was not an option.. and wet was not an option.. we went back to dry..and every time she played with for extended periods as she loved it she would throw up sand in the air as try and stop her .. yeah..
so she would cough a lot that day.. and why? no asthma no ANY lungs problems ever.. jsut then and on those summer days when she would play in the box.

so now summer is upon us.. I just don't have any sand yet.

I want some beach sand because whatever people say I tend to think that it is made by nature and not grainded and so if it rolls in the ocean it has just even different size and shape.. I used to spend tons of time on the beach as we used to live 5 inches from it  so the feel of the beach sand is just not as dusty as the toysrus version period.

I guess that might have something to do with the sand grains size as nature has maybe some mixed sizes not one size? so no those tinny tinny ones?
or maybe they are more friendly as they rolled against each other in the wet water for millions of years not were grinded yesterday, washed once and packaged?

whatever it is I am going to go with nature and I will try to find company that sells beach sand certified as this is he only one I will feel good about,
I trust nature more then safe sand company just as well because
I think that nature has longer traditions that is all and better testing.

that is at least what I will do so bottom line is I don't think you are overreacting and if you are then I am too.. so you are no alone..
and guess what there is tons of mamas just like us... we would be rather
wrong then risk something that can't be undone and we would rather
look for some natural alternatives then simple handy solutions that
come with false sens of security coming from the fact that this has been around for so long and that everbody is using..

for one - this has been around for so long - maybe, maybe not..
the manufacturing techniques change all the time so just as welll
if we assume that the modern man made sand is just as safe as the
one 40 years ago we all might be wrong.. just because they might
started adding something, using something else.. doing it differntly,
making it smaller.. dustier.. or whatever.. just as your kithen
tools look not as your mama's did .. and just as the food is not the same
as 40 years ago.. althoug it still looks like cucumber and carrot..
just more pesticized.. but you won't know till it kills you ...

for two.. how any of us can be sure altogether that we are overprotective?
or not? after all nobody did any reserach how much really an average kid is inhalling this stuff per play and how much it adds.. there is so much asthma cases going around and yet nobody really connect it with sand box play yet we know that there is fine dust with silica.. so maybe not but then again..
did we check it scientifically?

and thenf or three... all bad things take years and years to develop like cancers and lungs conditions and stuff.. and so if someone will get it in 19 years from now.. afer long gone the sand box.. how one can even track it back to the sand box?

so.. I would rather be wrong then sorry..

Hugs


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellaClaudia* 
or maybe they are more friendly as they rolled against each other in the wet water for millions of years not were grinded yesterday, washed once and packaged?

It like the difference between sea glass and a broken beer bottle in the park. Though both are made from the same thing, one is harmless and we would all happily let our kids play with it (sea glass,) the other (broken beer bottle) is very dangerous.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

Does no one here live at the beach? Play in that sand daily?

I mean, I grew up going to the beach and playing in the sand daily. I live 2 steps from the beach (and sand) precisely because I think it's a great place not only for me, but for raising kids. I mean - lots of fun sand to roll around in.

I haven't seen anyone who grew up at the beach have any issues.

Or am I missing something? Is sandbox sand, different sand than the beach sand?

I always thought silica was a natural component in sand. Including the beach stuff. But, maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_mojo* 
And, you ARE probably overreacting, but we all have our quirks. (Mine happens to be an abhorrence of plastic toys; my relatives think I'm nuts.







)

I agree.

I'm trying to get around to also emptying our sand box and getting rid of the box.







We have woods all around us and see spiders everywhere. My 7 y o rarely uses it anymore and I don't feel comfortable with it because of the chance of spiders, snakes and other creepy crawlies getting in it.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I put a small sandbox in our house over the winter and filled it w/ rice. It made an unholy mess, of course, but was very fun and non-toxic.

I agree that the play sand is nasty. We have to constantly replace ours due to animals and the elements. The rice is much nicer for sure.


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## jlovesl (Dec 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sailor* 
Does no one here live at the beach? Play in that sand daily?

I mean, I grew up going to the beach and playing in the sand daily. I live 2 steps from the beach (and sand) precisely because I think it's a great place not only for me, but for raising kids. I mean - lots of fun sand to roll around in.

I haven't seen anyone who grew up at the beach have any issues.

Or am I missing something? Is sandbox sand, different sand than the beach sand?

I always thought silica was a natural component in sand. Including the beach stuff. But, maybe I'm mixing it up with something else.

Yeah, I agree with you....I think play sand and beach sand are all the same. I would want to fill my sand box up with store bought sand before going and getting sand from the beach. Beach sand may be more natural but it also could have 1000 peoples dirty feet through it and animal feces and who knows what else. But REALLY no kind of sand every stopped me from playing in it. It's fun and as a child the dirtier I got the happier I was ha ha.......I think the world is making everyone paranoid of everything. The sun will kill ya, the air will kill ya, the water will kill ya, fat, calories, sugar.....where does it end????


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

birdseed in another option if you can keep the box well covered.


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## ArtsyHeartsy (Nov 11, 2008)

As other options....beans? Corn kernels? Rice? I know those things aren't buildable but I have seen kids play with all for a long time, just pouring and it actually feels cool to run your hands through it. There are probably issues with keeping them dry etc...but maybe something worth looking into?

How about some of that colored sand they sell by crayola!? lol That stuff seems really weird to me.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

I would keep the sand.

I did the research you did ... and found out how bad sand is .. then checked out the 'safe' sand ... saw how much it cost ... and went back to the regular playsand from Lowe's.

That sandbox gets more play time than any other thing in our yard, with my two and four year old and their friends.

Only if I noticed my kids had lung issues/coughing while playing would I consider banning the sand. It's just so much fun.

Liz


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## tylerdylan (Aug 29, 2007)

Ok, so I didn't even think of the kids breathing in the dust, but I hate our sand because it covers the kids clothes in dust and they are in and out of the house so much during the day that I am doing way too much laundry. But now you've got me thinking about their health....(DS1 has asthma + a brain tumour). But, the kids LOVE their sandbox. They spend hours a day in it and I can't imagine taking it away from them. I have looked everywhere for "real" sand because I feel like what we have is crushed rocks. There are no grains in it like real beach sand has. But, now I see maybe that is all you can buy for a reasonable price. That sucks!!! My parents actually have sand as their yard (naturally - under the grass). I think maybe I will just have to steal a bag each time we see them (only a few times a year unfortunately).
Also, DS2's eczema is out of control right now especially on his face, neck and arms which are what would be exposed to the sand dust. All winter it was fine and as soon as spring came it's been crazy. I wonder.....


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

So can you get beach sand somewhere or do you have to steal it from the beach?


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## lucyem (Apr 30, 2005)

I found this article which I think covers the issue well:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n16510689/

Basically it recommends play sand because it is screened/washed to get rid of more of the dust. It also recommends keeping the sand damp. I had asked my DH about all of this before I found the above article because we are getting some sand for our sand box. He spent a lifetime in the construction industry and thats what he said to do - buy screened & washed sand.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

We live in the woods surrounded by mountains. There is sand everywhere. And rich, smooth clay. And pea pebbles and big rocks. And humus.

Our boys spend all day playing in all of it. When there's a breeze, there's dust, and that I could sweep five times a day and still gather a handful of dust each time from the floor of our 24'x26' cabin tells me that even when there's no breeze, there is lots of dust.

People who have grown up here are generally taller and healthier than average. People come here to gain health (like me) and find they regain or become for the first time robust and vital. I have had more healing here in 8 months than 31 years in cities and towns- with far less dust.

I understand not wanting to breathe in singular element dusts like that from plain silica, but from natural unsifted sands, the dust is composed of many elements.

Where I live it is posited that during the last ice age, it was the particularly nutrient-dense dust that made lush fields for foraging animals to survive when elsewhere was covered in ice.

I have no doubt that I ingest a lot of dust, but it is mineral-rich and if all of the wildlife here can be so enormous and we can have next to no endangered and threatened species because while they are in peril elsewhere, and they thrive here in large quantity, even with the dust, then I am not concerned. Better, I am reassured.

It may be like the difference between refined iodized table salt and unrefined sea salt. If you want sterile, then the table salt is the one, but if you want health, then the unrefined salt is the default.

I would find it naturally occurring locally and be glad for the microbes and bits in it.


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## SweetPotato (Apr 29, 2006)

Rinse the sand to get rid of the fine particles and then don't worry about it. Seriously. If you really want to be certain, get the "white play sand" - which is pure quartz- and rinse that- it's lovely! I really think playing with sand is such a great, consuming, sensory experience that it's a real shame people are trying to scare folks in order to scam them out of $$ (and I'm a geologist, so, really, trust me!)


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Sorry OT but DD used to have a sandbox when she was little and saw some pink sand(her fave color)and now wants one again but she is worried the little girls on her street who are the same age would make fun of her..what would YOU do? She is 9 and going to Fourth grade next year. My mom and my uncle played a long time in theirs because she said they would do fancier things as they got older such as build fancy towns and roads. My mom thinks she did it until around 10. My mom said I didn't play in mine as long, though..only a time or two when I was around 6 or 7. Kids don't seem to want to do kid things anymore and I do want her to act like a kid and not feel pressured to grow up so fast but of course I also don't want the kids to treat her like a baby. Sorry to hijack the thread OP...I wouldn't worry about sand, as you can see.


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