# Teenage girl and sex?



## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I have a 14 year old. Or, to be more specific, my fiance has a 14 year old. She's a bit of a wild child, likes to push the limits of what she can get away with.

I honestly don't think teenagers should be having sex, but that being said, I know that it's gonna happen, so for the most part, I try to have a more open mind. My fiance is from a very Christian upbringing- no child of his is gonna have sex outside of marriage!!!

However, my stepdaughter and her boyfriend have been flirting around the idea of having sex for about a month. My fiance found the texts- some of the readings were quite... adventurous.

My stepdaughter will do anything to please her boyfriend. She's not emotionally ready for sex and she really hasn't thought through what would happen if she got pregnant, etc. She's overly knowledgeable about some areas of sex, and extremely naiive about other areas of sex. And apparently she has some odd ideas on birth control that she needs to be enlightened about.

In short, it would be disastrous if my stepdaughter were to have sex now, both for her mental health and for the entire family if she ended up pregnant. I can't go into many details on here, but take my word for it- it would be a very bad idea at this time. Lots of extremely low self esteem, lots of Depression, even some self harm.

How can we avoid this happening as best we can? She won't talk to my fiance about it because he's pretty much implied that he will disown her if she has sex. While I don't agree with his thinking, obviously I can't go against him and hand her a packet of condoms without a major blowup. We avoid letting her alone with her boyfriend unless it's a public place, but I know that's not surefire- when there's a will, there's a way- I lost my virginity while skipping class during school hours. And this is one area I CANNOT talk to my fiance about, one area he will NOT budge on under any circumstances. It actually may be one of the two altercations that could cause a breakup between me and my fiance if I pushed too hard on his daughter's "side" (the other being religion- he has the same views on Christianity, as she's recently begun to question her Faith, with extremely negative reactions from her Dad).

How best for me to keep my 14 year old out of trouble? Besides try to talk to her and give her the knowledge on things- I'm working on that, but nothing so far. Suggestions? Anything I'm missing here?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Does she have a mother? 


She isn't your daughter. She isn't your step daughter. Your fiancé has made it very clear how he feels. 


I think you have some choices:


1. Be very clear with her on everything. Give her a book, provide her with solid information. This might destroy your relationship with her father, but it is an option you have. 


2. Accept that this isn't your child and it isn't your choice what to do. 


3. Have a heart to heart with your fiancé and convince him of your point of view. Explain *why* this is an important issue.


4. Reconsider your relationship with this guy. To me, he sounds very inflexible and like he would be very hard to live with, make decisions with, and raise a step child with. He has created a relationship with his kid that means that she can not be honest with him and feel safe at the same time. He did that. He taught her that. And you know why she feels that way, you can see it. That's what kind of person you are planning on marrying. He is only capable of conditional love with his own child.


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## salr (Apr 14, 2008)

Totally agree with the PP.


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## ecotime47 (Mar 27, 2013)

If this is TMI, please accept my apologies but I'm curious about something... What kind of example is your fiance' living for his daughter? Is he abiding by his own "no sex outside of marriage" rule?


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## AAK (Aug 12, 2004)

I agree with the first person to respond. 

Regarding books, it is easy to say to give her a book. However, not all girls want to read a preachy book about sex. In addition to a book of facts-- or other resource, I suggest "The Pregnancy Project." I thought it painted a good picture of teenage pregnancy. 

Amy


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I might go have a chat with the girl's mom. If she is flirting with the idea of sex I would not only tell her that she should buy her own damn condoms (I'd give her a $20) but I would strongly suggest she needs to be on hormonal birth control as a back up. 

I don't think I could marry someone who wasn't willing to allow his children to make safe choices.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Linda on the move said:


> Reconsider your relationship with this guy. To me, he sounds very inflexible and like he would be very hard to live with, make decisions with, and raise a step child with. He has created a relationship with his kid that means that she can not be honest with him and feel safe at the same time. He did that. He taught her that. And you know why she feels that way, you can see it. That's what kind of person you are planning on marrying. He is only capable of conditional love with his own child.


I'm completely perplexed on this one. My stepdaughter can talk about any other subject with my fiance EXCEPT sex and religion (or lack of). My fiance grew up in a very strict Christian home, child of missionaries, his Dad's an ordained minister, etc. That's the only reason I can think of that would explain the brick wall. But, this teenagers having sex and children questioning religion has just now come up, 3 1/2 years into our relationship, so I'm still trying to bring my jaw up off the floor about his reaction.



ecotime47 said:


> If this is TMI, please accept my apologies but I'm curious about something... What kind of example is your fiance' living for his daughter? Is he abiding by his own "no sex outside of marriage" rule?


Yup, it's TMI, but let's just say my fiance is abiding by his own rules as in, there is absolutely no evidence of anything going on besides kissing, as far as the kids are concerned. I have wondered on this one, too. Plus, she is aware that my first son was born when I was 19 and unmarried, so she knows I'm no saint.



AAK said:


> I agree with the first person to respond.
> 
> Regarding books, it is easy to say to give her a book. However, not all girls want to read a preachy book about sex. In addition to a book of facts-- or other resource, I suggest "The Pregnancy Project." I thought it painted a good picture of teenage pregnancy.
> 
> Amy


I like that idea. The kid loves to read. I'll see if I can get a copy. I don't know if she'll read it, though.



rightkindofme said:


> I might go have a chat with the girl's mom.


Her Mom died 4 1/2 years ago. I've been in the picture for 3 1/2 years. Unfortunately, I'm "Mom".


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hate to burst the family bubble, but shes 14 she can get to planned parenthood, she can get to walmart for condoms, she can get 5 mins between class to have sex.

you might feel like 'mom' but you are not mom. i know it stinks but you don't have any legal ties to this child. and i'd look long and hard before committing any more time to your relationship with your fiance.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

zebra15 said:


> Hate to burst the family bubble, but shes 14 she can get to planned parenthood, she can get to walmart for condoms, she can get 5 mins between class to have sex.
> 
> you might feel like 'mom' but you are not mom. i know it stinks but you don't have any legal ties to this child. and i'd look long and hard before committing any more time to your relationship with your fiance.


I'm somewhat surprised that I came on here asking for advice regarding my 14 year old and there are two subjects (sex and religion) that just became a problem now after over 3 years, and the suggested "fix" for it is for me to break up with my fiance. It never occurred to me to break up an entire family (I've been his children's Stepmother for 3+ years, he's been my little one's "Daddy" since he was a tiny baby) instead of working on the root of the problem, which is, my stepdaughter wants to have sex, I'm not crazy about it, but if she does, I want her to do it safely, and my fiance has completely shut down regarding the subject.

My fiance doesn't like confrontation, but this is the only time I've ever literally come up against a brick wall, something he will not budge on, everything else, may sometimes take time and patience, but everything else, I can get him to talk to me about.

And my stepchildren, yes, I know I'm not their Mother, but I'm the only Mother they've got, likely the only Mother they'll have.

I can on here looking for ideas on how to run interference and help my stepdaughter, not be reminded I'm not the child's Mother and told to just walk away from my fiance, his children. I regret postinghere.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

This may be The One subject (or one of two subjects) on which your fiance is like a brick wall, but it is a terrible subject for that.

Here's the facts: we can't control other people. You cannot change your fiance's very strong opinion on this, only he can do that. And your fiance cannot prevent his daughter from having sex, either now or when she's older. The most likely result of trying is a totally predictable disaster.

You say that as far as the kids are concerned, you and your partner do nothing but kiss. If the kids believe that, they can't possibly believe that their dad is all that into you or you are all that permanent. 

I think Linda makes good points, but if you don't want to go that way, you still need to be firm about this issue, where he's taking a totally inappropriate stance that will cause huge harm to children.

Since I don't believe your arrangement is entirely sex-free, here's my suggestion: Cut him off. There will be nothing but chaste goodnight kisses for him until this issue is resolved. Before you go any further with wedding plans, you need to come to an agreement on some important parenting issues, like how to respond constructively to teen sexuality. "Don't" is not a complete set of sexual ethics, and it's massively insufficient information. Any gaps you leave are going to be filled at random by people who may not have your child's best interests at heart. What values are you actively sharing with your children? What values have you demonstrated? Where are they getting their information now, and where would it be best for them to get it? 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you and your fiance's kids regard you as Mom, if your fiance doesn't also see you that way. If he can't have this conversation with you, and sincerely consider your input, he doesn't see you as a partner in raising his children and you shouldn't consider him your partner in raising yours.


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## farmermomma (Oct 30, 2012)

Geez people. She's way more of a mom than my DS's X step mom. (She was awesome by the way.) The marriage only lasted 3 months. Marriage doesn't solve or define everything. It may not even be the goal. 
Fiancé is going to have some issues wether the child is his hers or theirs. We all have issues. Meet him where he is and explore from there. Don't throw the baby and the teenager out with the bath water.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

kblackstone444 said:


> My stepdaughter will do anything to please her boyfriend. She's not emotionally ready for sex and she really hasn't thought through what would happen if she got pregnant, etc. She's overly knowledgeable about some areas of sex, and extremely naiive about other areas of sex. And apparently she has some odd ideas on birth control that she needs to be enlightened about.


In my experience, young women in these situations are the ones who end up pregnant. I've seen it with my sister and some of my sisters' daughters. One of them didn't understand how she got pregnant because they were using condoms. My sister asked her if she was sure they were using condoms, it was dark, did she see them. To this day I still don't understand that one, but my sister said it was because she was inexperienced.

I think I'd try talking to your fiancé again. It's fine for him to state things absolutely, I think we all do that when we feel very strongly about things. But realistically, if she becomes pregnant, and you two are her only guardians, how will he disown her? I mean would he give her up to the state to be put into foster care? Or does she have aunts/uncles or grandparents? Because I don't think he's putting enough thought into this, and he can't just bury his head in the sand and hope something goes away.

As far as his religion, I'm a Christian married to a non-Christian. I don't know anything of your religious background, but I'm pretty liberal politically and socially, and I engaged in sex before marriage, and your fiancé obviously is as well. So he can't be all that strict, I'm thinking, but it can be a hard pill to swallow with your kids, which is why we sometimes talk in absolutes. What would he do in other situations where there were things that went against his own core beliefs? I mean like if one of your children ended up gay or transgender, how would he handle that? If his daughter got pregnant and wanted an abortion, how would he handle that? Assuming he can't just wash his hands of the problem as he easily thinks.

Sometimes my husband speaks strongly in absolutes, so I wait until he is out of the immediate emotion of the situation and talk to him more calmly, and he explains his thinking. My instinct is to try to get him to keep talking about it and see what is the root of the issue.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

kblackstone444 said:


> My stepdaughter can talk about any other subject with my fiance EXCEPT sex and religion (or lack of).
> 
> She isn't allowed independent thought or control over her own body. These are VERY serious issues. They can wreck havoc over her life and relationship with her father. Don't minimize them by saying they are the only issues.
> 
> ...


So the two of you DO have a sexual relationship, you just are very discreet about it. That is the example he is setting. Keep secrets. As long as no one knows, its OK. Please understand that she isn't an idiot, and she will most likely work at keeping her private life private, rather than work at either keeping herself safe or work at creating an honest, authentic life. This is what she's being taught.


Also, the fact that her father only loves her on certain conditions could easily be related to why she is willing to do anything to try to secure the love of her boyfriend.


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## arwenevenstar (Mar 25, 2005)

Presumably if her own mother is not alive any more, she lives with you? 

I know, I'm English, I probably have different attitudes, but imo, I'd be saying that it would be my responsibility 'AS AN ADULT LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE' and technically as a parent ie In Loco Parentis, that you speak to her about pregnancy.

It IS your responsibility to equip her with the ability (to hopefully) say no to her partner, sex under pressure is NOT the way to go, however she feels about it, and THAT is the first lesson.

Second lesson is, that teens are teens and she may well just decide to butt heads with her father's pov and go and have sex anyway and then there is a baby...and he disowns her...yup, very responsible.

I am a Christian, Quaker actually, and this is VERY important to me. We are the guardians of our children's futures until they are old enough to take it on board and take care of it themselves, if we don't give them the tools then we are neglecting their care and welfare.

You have to speak to him. Harder said than done, I know, and if he is STILL unable to accept this, you have to give him the hard way: if he doesn't speak to her about this then she may well end up pregnant and if he then disowns her, he has a motherless AND fatherless child, with a grandchild on the way, on the streets FFS!!! 

If he is a good Christian he should be able to see that God doesn't want her to be pregnant before her time or for her to be out on the streets with a kid to bring up - that is not christian either imo.

Start by talking to him, maybe he struggles because it's not a conversation he was able to have as a kid himself so he doesn't know how to approach it other than to take it the same way as him parents. My folks were the same. My mother's way of teaching me about sex and birth control was to show me a video of a woman having a baby and screaming!!!!!!!!!!! Really? So sex is horrid, we get pregnant and it cuts us up having babies - that helped - NOT!!

If he still can't talk, then I suggest you have to take on the responsibility of her surrogate parent as you live in the same household (let's be honest if a kid came to you to ask if they should take drugs would you just say 'well, I'm not legally your parent so I can't tell you'?? It takes a village) and talk to her about the consequences, if she's still determined, then you need to equip her. 

Ultimately if it loses the relationship for you all, then perhaps 'that' is god's will, not the rest.

sorry if I'm speaking harshly, I was a midwife for a few years with an interest in teen pregnancy and it cut me up each time a pregnant, alone, deserted teen came in because their parents were unable to talk to them, explain things, hold their hands with decision making etc.

Hugs though, it's NOT an easy thing to do and you sound so wise...xx


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

You are a good and loving mother to this girl. This bears repeating. You are a good and loving person who is in a difficult position.
It's not unusual for men to react in a rigid and seemingly unyielding way to the thought of their daughter becoming sexual. But your fiancee's immediate reaction isn't necessarily permanent - it's just an emotional response to the situation. As an emotion it may or may not change. It may or may not be a deal breaker in your relationship. 
The worst part of the situation is that there is an immediate and pressing need to protect the girl from an unwanted pregnancy. Ideally you will protect her from premature sexual experience as well, but the only irrevocable danger is from a pregnancy.
I think you need to sit down with the girl and remind her of how much you love her. At this point she very much needs to be reminded that somebody loves her and will continue to love her no matter what.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

As an emergency measure you might also consider having the "I wish my mother had told me" talk with the girl. I'd emphasize the difference between oral sex and intercourse and suggest that a clear line be drawn between the two. Obviously there are dangers and emotional repercussions involved with oral sex but the issue of pregnancy is off the table. Ideally she won't become sexually active at all just yet, but if she does it's a lot easier to get over a relationship that doesn't go "all the way." 

I had a discussion about this with a friend who is a very traditional Christian, happily married. He said that he wished that someone had given him this advice when he was in his teens. He felt that there's a much greater emotional intimacy and attachment that comes with intercourse, as well as the possibility of pregnancy, and that this is why it's "forbidden" outside of marriage. It's a line that isn't drawn very much any more and perhaps it should be. Perhaps it's even a line you've drawn yourselves.

If you're really feeling bold you might even talk to the boyfriend.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Your fiancée needs to hear that threatening his daughter with being disowned was cruel. He needs to tell her that he will always love her because he is her father. And she needs to hear this over and over until she believes it.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

arwenevenstar said:


> Presumably if her own mother is not alive any more, she lives with you?
> 
> I know, I'm English, I probably have different attitudes, but imo, I'd be saying that it would be my responsibility 'AS AN ADULT LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE' and technically as a parent ie In Loco Parentis, that you speak to her about pregnancy.
> 
> ...


What a great and thoughtful post. Thanks.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Claudia Chapman said:


> You are a good and loving mother to this girl. This bears repeating. You are a good and loving person who is in a difficult position.
> It's not unusual for men to react in a rigid and seemingly unyielding way to the thought of their daughter becoming sexual. But your fiancee's immediate reaction isn't necessarily permanent - it's just an emotional response to the situation. As an emotion it may or may not change. It may or may not be a deal breaker in your relationship.
> The worst part of the situation is that there is an immediate and pressing need to protect the girl from an unwanted pregnancy. Ideally you will protect her from premature sexual experience as well, but the only irrevocable danger is from a pregnancy.
> I think you need to sit down with the girl and remind her of how much you love her. At this point she very much needs to be reminded that somebody loves her and will continue to love her no matter what.


Thank you. I agree.



Claudia Chapman said:


> Your fiancée needs to hear that threatening his daughter with being disowned was cruel. He needs to tell her that he will always love her because he is her father. And she needs to hear this over and over until she believes it.


I agree. He's eased up, but there's still a LOT of tension between the two.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

*Giving someone room to back down*

He's eased up, but there's still a LOT of tension between the two....

I'm glad to hear that. It's a beginning. It can be hard, when we're in a serious conflict, to give the other person room to back down from an unreasonable position. It's hard to back down from an unreasonable position ourselves.

When you're in conflict with a loved one there are techniques to change the energy between the two of you.

A friend who is a healer once recommended that I take out a photo of my loved one and put it someplace where I would see it when I was alone. Her suggestion was to look at the photo every day for ten minutes and remember a time when he was strong and calm and I was feeling very close to him. She said this would change the energy between us and help us to resolve a serious conflict we were having.

It sounds goofy but it worked.

When we're in a conflict we tend to tell ourselves the story of that conflict over and over again in our own head. We ruminate. This constant retelling of the bad story crowds out the loving memories. We forget that we were once happy and in accord. The distance we feel is reflected in our expressions and body language even if we are trying to be careful of what we say. Even when we are restrained and rational in what we say, our loved ones react to the expression in our eyes, the hint of exasperation in our voice and the tension in our body language rather than our carefully chosen words.

Taking the time every day to remember a different story - one where we were close and in harmony and acting rationally - actually changes our body language and the expressions on our face. It changes the energy flow between us.

Is it possible that your fiance is scared because he doesn't know how to control his daughter's behavior and he's terrified that she'll hurt herself? It's frightening when our teenagers are doing something that could hurt them and we feel powerless to stop it. Sometimes when we don't know what other card to play we do something really stupid like make threats. Have you told him that you know he's scared she might hurt herself and that you are too? That you're both trying to achieve the same goal? That you're on the same side? It might help to remind him of these things. He might need to hear it several times before it sinks in.

I hope that your husband's picture of God is of the infinitely loving, infinitely forgiving father that Christ spoke about. It might help him if you remind him of the image of God as a loving father. Would God disown his children because they made a mistake? This might be a card for you to play. It might work if it's done in a spirit of love not anger.


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't have any suggestions for dealing with your partner on this issue. However, I was once a teen much like your stepdaughter sounds. So there I have some insight:

- If you feel you can, talk to her privately (and regularly) about things like her fertility cycle, STIs, contraception, consensual sex, and non-penetrative sex. If she feels confident in her ability to say no (or yes), knows what to expect of her body and of sex, and knows how to have intimate fun without penetration her chances of unwanted pregnancy are drastically reduced. Try not to make it a lecture, and don't pry, leave room for her to ask awkward questions without judgement.

- give her a book, or preferably books, that have accurate information on the above subjects. Sometimes it may be easier to let her read it on her own and then invite questions on the subject material. Sorry I don't have book recommendations handy for you, but I'm sure there are some.

- make sure she has easy access to contraception _that she knows how to use._ I was on birth control pills for years and no one ever told me that I needed to take them at the same time every day or that consuming alcohol can reduce the effectiveness. I was taught how to put on a condom by my first boyfriend (who thankfully was a very good guy & knew what he was doing). Ideally your stepdaughter should know how to put on a condom on correctly before she has her first sexual experience. One of the smartest parenting choices my dad ever made was to ensure that there were condoms readily available at all times in our bathroom once I was of an age that I might need them. That way I could get them without needing to talk to him about it, or be embarrassed buying them, or go without because I was short of cash.

- try to give her opportunities to earn your trust. The more confident she feels about you and her dad loving her and trusting her the less likely she is to seek positive attention by having sex. And the more likely she is to come to you about it if there's any sort of problem. Also, if her parents aren't *forbidding* her doing something, like sex, the less chance there is of her running out and doing it just to spite you.

I expect that you love this girl and want to keep her from harm. I also agree that you are Mom now, which gives you some responsibility in this area I think. If you can't get your partner on board I think tackling this privately is totally justified, because someone needs to. I know it's very different in a blended family (I have 5 step-parents) but my hubs and I are not on the same page on this subject either, and I've decided that I don't really care. He won't talk about sex at all. I think it's important for our kids to have a good understanding of how that all works before they get to the stage of wanting to try it out. So my 11 year old has basic knowledge of fertility, menstruation, and the mechanics of procreative sex. She also knows there are other kinds of sex, and ways to have sex without getting pregnant, though I've left some of the details on that for later. She's intensely uncomfortable talking about this stuff, but we do it anyway every few months. Often followed by hot cocoa. 

I hope something in here is helpful. And I really, really hope that you and your partner work this out so that your stepdaughter gets the help and information she needs to be safe. I'm happy to answer questions about my own teen experience if you have them. 
:hug


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Great advice LTurtle!
I agree that it's important to suggest to teens that non-penetrative intimacy is an option. I think that teen girls tend not to draw that line anymore. They think it's all or nothing. But there are steps. It's not just protection from pregnancy, it's emotional as well. I've actually heard teens say that they were glad they hadn't gone "all the way" because it would have been much harder to break up. Of corse that's wisdom which was acquired when the inevitable happened and the relationship was over.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

LTurtle said:


> I expect that you love this girl and want to keep her from harm. I also agree that you are Mom now, which gives you some responsibility in this area I think.


Except that she isn't mom. *Dad could dump the OPer if she follows your advice, and then the OPer would never see this girl again. *

Otherwise, I like your advice. If the OPer were asking about her own child, I would agree that its good advice. But I think that to ignore the realities of the situation is foolish. This isn't a mom posting. It isn't even a step mom posting. This is Dad's girl friend, who he won't admit to having sex with. Her relationship to the teen girl isn't based on blood, law, or commitment. It could end at any minute.

Honestly, if I were in her shoes, I would do pretty much what you've outlined. But I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who threatened to disown their child. That is completely unacceptable behavior in my book.


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

It is a bit difficult to post my thoughts on these forums, as my take is not the common one here. It's always difficult to speak when you are alone in something  However, I am sure my view will be respected, and I'm posting it as an alternative to the misconception that "Christian equals terrible teen years". I want to first say that while I'm not "judging", I am called to discern what is true in my faith, and your boyfriend is not representing his supposed faith in an accurate, loving or forgiving light, nor is he leading by example to be a man of character. In general, when young ladies do not have a strong man of character (their fathers) in their lives, they will seek out acceptance, love and affection from other males. Often this means sexually, since that is a great way to share intimacy and be accepted!

I would say the biggest "issue" to deal with in my book is that you and your BF are giving extremely conflicting information to your BF daughter. He tells her the evils of having sex outside of marriage, and threatens to disown her, and then you two are intimate. Teens (and children for that matter) are not stupid or ignorant. They figure it out. If your BF feels so strongly about that, he ought to evaluate his own conduct and decide to marry you. However, in the mean time, it's awfully hard to make the case for avoiding sex outside of marriage, when you've been living it out on the daily in front of the kids.

I feel for this girl. The only message she is likely to receive is, "Have sex, it's fine, here's how you protect your body", or "Don't have sex or you have no family anymore". Unfortunately, most view the latter as how traditional Christian families that practice abstinence outside of marriage operate. It isn't the case. There is no disowning. There is unconditional love. The difference is that in a Christian home, parents are married, and teach from a young age why the child is special enough and created unique and wonderful enough to protect not just their bodies, but their hearts by saving themselves until marriage. What the benefits are. Giving them enough credit they can do it amidst a culture that doesn't think it's worth anything. Children that grow to teens and witness what their parents have, and recognize they want it for themselves is a completely different situation than, "If you get pregnant you are out on your butt". Barking orders at kids and teens with nothing but threats is not going to gain anything but rebellion. Particularly when those orders are not being followed by the family anyway! 

It sounds as if your husband possibly grew up with a lot of "religion" and not necessarily a solid foundation of Grace. In our home, while far from perfect, we do understand Grace, and not only think our children will "screw up", but anticipate it. Our job is to raise them to make sound decisions according to a never changing guidepost, and when they falter, to have a place to land and get rid of the guilt. Kids raised with religion often have an idea of perfection that they can never attain..so they carry guilt and shame. There is no place for that in raising children, AND we must expect that they will either make different choices as adult, or will stumble in their commitments along the way. We are human. God doesn't love us based on what we do or don't do..We, like God, will always take them back!

So, if I were in your shoes I would:

A) Make it clear to the BF that having an intimate relationship outside of marriage is what he is against, yet he is doing the same thing. Marry you to make it non-hypocritical, or drop the whole deal, as convictions are not what you put on someone else, but what you live out by example.

B) You and her father teach the daughter why she is special enough to God and to you and her father, to wait to give her gift of sexuality to someone who will wait for it. Teach her the biblical reasons for waiting until marriage. Show her evidence in your own lives where this was true-positive and negative.

C) Don't expect her to follow your advice. There has been no example, and no demonstration of why, just rules, so at this point it would be unlikely she'd choose abstinence for herself. Let her know you will help her avoid the problems associated with teen sex if she should choose to become sexually active. Let her know you will always love her no matter what her choices and that she always has an open door and friend in you.

D) If the father isn't willing to sacrifice his self a bit and do these things with you for HIS daughter, I would seriously contemplate the relationship value here. You aren't married, and if he has no intention on changing, it would be bad to marry anyway.

Best wishes to you.


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

Linda on the move said:


> Except that she isn't mom. *Dad could dump the OPer if she follows your advice, and then the OPer would never see this girl again. *
> 
> Otherwise, I like your advice. If the OPer were asking about her own child, I would agree that its good advice. But I think that to ignore the realities of the situation is foolish. This isn't a mom posting. It isn't even a step mom posting. This is Dad's girl friend, who he won't admit to having sex with. Her relationship to the teen girl isn't based on blood, law, or commitment. It could end at any minute.
> 
> Honestly, if I were in her shoes, I would do pretty much what you've outlined. But I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who threatened to disown their child. That is completely unacceptable behavior in my book.


I disagree. This isn't a casual dating relationship. With or without a marriage certificate this is a blended family with committed parents. Yes, the relationship could end, as could a marriage. But even should that happen it does not necessarily mean that the OP would never see her stepdaughter again. I'd like to give both the OP and her partner the benefit of the doubt that if they did choose to end their relationship, they could do so respectfully enough to allow continued relationships between children and step-parents.

I have maintained relationships with step-parents after they divorced my biological parents, even after my bio parents remarried. My first stepmother was a better mother in many ways than my biological mother, who was by turns neglectful and abusive. The teen girl in question here does not have another mother figure in her life, the OP has been functioning as a mother to this girl for years now. They have presumably begun building their own individual relationship. I doubt either the OP or her partner would want this girl to lose another mother figure, whatever should happen in their relationship.

I think that the value judgments you are making about the OP's family situation are unkind, unnecessary and not relevant to the original question.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Lturtle, I think Linda's judgments are vital consideration.

We have a number of factors here, and one of them is a man who is being autocratic, absolutist, and inconsistent. It's possible that these factors aren't key parts of his character. Then again, it's possible they are.

It's wonderful to think that people could be reasonable in the event of a breakup, but there are no guarantees. THe OP and the teen in this situation are legal strangers. The OP's partner hasn't formalized their relationship, despite strong religious convictions, and he's threatened to disown his daughter over those same convictions. Why should we believe he'd have any compunction about breaking off his relationship and forbidding contact, which he has the ability to do.

The OP is in a challenging situation. Leaving that piece out would be a mistake.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

MyFillingQuiver said:


> I would say the biggest "issue" to deal with in my book is that you and your BF are giving extremely conflicting information to your BF daughter. He tells her the evils of having sex outside of marriage, and threatens to disown her, and then you two are intimate. Teens (and children for that matter) are not stupid or ignorant. They figure it out. ...
> 
> I feel for this girl. The only message she is likely to receive is, "Have sex, it's fine, here's how you protect your body", or "Don't have sex or you have no family anymore".


I really liked your whole post. Although we don't see this issue exactly the same way due to religious difference, I respect your views. I also think that the above comments are spot on.



LTurtle said:


> This isn't a casual dating relationship. With or without a marriage certificate this is a blended family with committed parents.


 I believe that marriage only means whatever it means to the two people in it. Personally, I never wanted to get married at all because of the very poor examples of it I had seen in my extended family. My DH and I lived together for several years, had our first child, and bought a house together all before legally becoming married. Eventually, it just became too much of a pain to not be married while having our lives and finances completely entwined, and we became legally married. So, I see your point.

However, the OPer's finance doesn't feel that way. He feels that having sex outside of marriage is a sin and is VERY judgmental about other people doing it. He would *disown* his child over it. He is pretending to every one that he isn't in a sexual relationship. He is living a big fat lie because of his beliefs about marriage. This isn't a couple that is living together as a family. This is a couple that is dating and pretending.

I think it is VERY relevant to the OPer's situation, which is why she put it in her first post. This issue could end their relationship.

If he were a good, loving, father, there is a chance she wouldn't be in a big hurry to get laid (14 is really, really young). The advice to have oral sex instead is just sad to me, partly because it completely misses the point that this girl doesn't have a soul in her life who is committed to her. The OPer *could* marry her father and adopt her, if that's what they wanted.

But they don't want that. They want to pretend.

Also, I would really question how a man who I was sleeping with but wasn't married to REALY felt about me if he said it was behavior he would disown his daughter over.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Quotation from LindaOnTheMove: The advice to have oral sex instead is just sad to me, partly because it completely misses the point that this girl doesn't have a soul in her life who is committed to her....

I don't think I missed the point about the emotional needs of the girl. The suggestion of oral sex was made only after discussing the necessity of the family affirming their love for the daughter. It was suggested as a safer alternative than "penetrative sex" for teens who are already starting to experiment because all too often young girls think it's all or nothing. I think it should be on the table when "just say no" just isn't working.

I also think that KBlackstone is clearly committed to her family, her relationship and especially to the girl. 

I'd like to say this in the most gentle, respectful way possible. I don't know the reason K and her intended aren't legally married or what the nature of their intimate relationship is. (She doesn't say.) Without knowing what sort of commitment they've made privately or in the eyes of God, I don't have enough information to draw conclusions.


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

Linda on the move said:


> Also, I would really question how a man who I was sleeping with but wasn't married to REALY felt about me if he said it was behavior he would disown his daughter over.


This quote is amazing. The OP could essentially ask, "If I am OK to have unmarried sex with, then obviously, I'm not valued very highly within the same values. Should my father disown me?"

I agree with you that 14 is really young to be seeking sexuality. It's not wrong to be thinking about it or discovering it's a part of who you will be, but I would think this young lady REALLY needs to be loved. Girls will often be loved any way they can find it, and of course, girls (particularly young/naive) will place sexual relations on the "love" scale, when they don't quite get that sex for males can be entirely different.

I'm just so sad for this girl. While I can't personally write the guy off because I don't know him, what the OP has posted is just really wrecking up this girl. It is natural (as far as I can tell with my own relationship with my father and my husband and daughters and some other close folks) for dad's to have a bit of a struggle with understanding their daughters are now growing and no longer babies..that they are going to be sexual beings, etc. Thus, the whole characteracture (sp?) of a dad with a shot gun. However, a truly loving daddy WANTS to raise his daughter to be an adult and not a perpetual child, being overly vulnerable and put in a place of knowing she'll have nowhere to turn if she disappoints him. :frown:

My husband is having to redefine the relationship with our girls a little bit as they grow. However, he's thankful that they have a mother (that would be me) that has a very open relationship with things we can relate together on-feminine issues, health, sexuality, etc. That way, dad and I are always an aligned parenting unit, and we can roll with the punches that come with parenting a variety of personalities. Dad can still be their soft place to land when their hearts are heavy. No condemnation.

I hope this young girl can have a soft place to land, as well. It's going to have the power to really define her future for a good many years; maybe forever.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

Quote from MyFillingQuiver: It sounds as if your husband possibly grew up with a lot of "religion" and not necessarily a solid foundation of Grace....Kids raised with religion often have an idea of perfection that they can never attain..so they carry guilt and shame. There is no place for that in raising children...

Beautifully put. Thank you for using the magic word: possibly.

C) Don't expect her to follow your advice...

I agree. Kids don't listen to what we tell them to do; they model in their own lives what they see us do in ours.


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## Claudia Chapman (Aug 9, 2012)

People have put forth a number of projections here about the reasons the original poster is not legally married. They've drawn their own conclusions about what her unmarried status might mean. Some of the things which have been said are hurtful.

I don't know if everyone is aware that when a person has children and loses a spouse that he and his children may be eligible for social security benefits. The widower loses his own benefit when he remarries which can put a major hole in the familes finances. I'm not saying that this is the case here. But it's interesting to note that some of our laws and supplemental income systems actually discourage legal marriage. A friend's son and his girlfriend conceived a child while both were still in college. They decided to have the baby and get married, but soon found out that the girl would be bumped off her parents insurance policy if they got married. The policy was low deductible and very comprehensive. It paid for all of her prenatal care plus the expenses for a complicated labor and delivery. The young couple's commitment to one another and to their baby was very deep but their financial situation made it difficult to legally marry. Some people in this situation have commitment ceremonies. Again, I'm not saying that this has anything to do with what is happening here. It's just a reminder that sometimes there are circumstances we might not take in to account.


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## MyFillingQuiver (Sep 7, 2009)

Claudia Chapman said:


> People have put forth a number of projections here about the reasons the original poster is not legally married. They've drawn their own conclusions about what her unmarried status might mean. Some of the things which have been said are hurtful.
> 
> I don't know if everyone is aware that when a person has children and loses a spouse that he and his children may be eligible for social security benefits. The widower loses his own benefit when he remarries which can put a major hole in the familes finances. I'm not saying that this is the case here. But it's interesting to note that some of our laws and supplemental income systems actually discourage legal marriage. A friend's son and his girlfriend conceived a child while both were still in college. They decided to have the baby and get married, but soon found out that the girl would be bumped off her parents insurance policy if they got married. The policy was low deductible and very comprehensive. It paid for all of her prenatal care plus the expenses for a complicated labor and delivery. The young couple's commitment to one another and to their baby was very deep but their financial situation made it difficult to legally marry. Some people in this situation have commitment ceremonies. Again, I'm not saying that this has anything to do with what is happening here. It's just a reminder that sometimes there are circumstances we might not take in to account.


That may very well be true. I know a number of folks who live together rather than get married, because they benefit financially from that arrangement; or would get penalized for being married-however one wishes to look at it. My only reason for bringing this up was that it was a point of issue with the OP's dilemma. Her boyfriend is very against sex outside of marriage for his daughter. If he isn't himself married (for whatever reason) it sends a mixed message to the daughter. Whatever the reason for him not being married, if it's something that has grey areas or reasons for being OK, or various loopholes, then he should say, "It's best to have sex within marriage, but because we have reasons we don't think that's 100% true all the time, I don't expect you to, either". People are free to choose whatever living arrangements that best fit them-but you cannot choose something for yourself, while condemning it for others.

Someone either believes something is truth and then attempts to live it, while accepting others may not always do the same, OR, they half-heartedly live it, giving the appearance that what they believe really isn't important to them.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

It doesn't matter to me what the reasons for this OP and her fiance not being married are. I am interested only in the result, which is: the OP needs to consider the fact that her partner has the ability to break off their relationship and forbid further contact between the OP and his kids.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Claudia Chapman said:


> It's just a reminder that sometimes there are circumstances we might not take in to account.


We would only need to take the circumstances into account if we were attempting to pass judgment on her or the situation, and no one is doing that. I typed up my own personal feelings on marriage just to clarify that point. 
But, when one is trying to PARENT a kid that they are not the parent of, it does matter that they aren't the parent. It changes the options. You can't just pretend that you are a kid's parent and then act the way that you think their parent should act. It doesn't work that way. 
Also, in any partner relationship (married or not) when attempting co-parent a kid, doing the opposite of what the other person said they wanted to happened generally causes a lot of problems. This is true even if it is a married couple raising their biological children.
However, the problems increase exponentially when the child is the other person's child, but your step child. Some of the advice on this thread is basically saying "Forget about dad and say blah blah blah." That is really bad relationship advice.

If you were dating someone, told them how you wanted a situation with your kid handled, and based on the advice of his buddies, he did the opposite, how quickly would you end the relationship? Would you ever trust that person around your kid again?

I think dad is totally wrong and going about this in ways that will make the situation worse, but it doesn't matter, because this is HIS kid. In the end, it's his call how to handle things.


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