# Musings about reselling items bought from charity auctions...



## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

As the charity auctions are fast approaching (can't wait!







), I got to thinking about them, and there is a phenomenon I have never quite understood...

Occasionally, when reading through TP or eBay auctions, I'll see reference made to items that were originally bought in a charity auction and therefore usually the seller, understandably, paid a great deal of money for them. So far, so good, right?

Except then the seller uses this explanation to justify why THEY should now get roughly that same amount of $ BACK for the items they are re-selling.







Am I the only one who finds this assumption a bit confusing?







:

When you originally buy something in a charity auction, the higher price you pay is to benefit the charity in question. That's fabulous -- you get great fluff AND the charity benefits at the same time!







But....when YOU resell it, you're the only one benefitting from the sale, so why should you expect buyers to want to pay what you originally paid (usually well above market price)? Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems a strange expectation to have...how is it, for example, any different from re-selling something you originally bought and accidentally (say, in the heat of an eBay auction frenzy :LOL) paid far too much for? You wouldn't expect to get your "overbid" investment back, so why the extra $ you paid for charity?

Just random musings, feel free to tell me I'm weird...









Guin


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## Trishas Tribe (Nov 4, 2003)

ITA and have wondered the same myself.

The buyer paid so much to benefit the charity not simply for the item. In essence if you ask above retail for the item when selling, you are asking the second hand buyer to pay some of what you donated to the charity.


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## RebeccaL (Jul 20, 2005)

I simply refuse to pay more than what it would cost me to either order that item or buy from the store or website. If it's a hard to get item, I _might_ pay a bit more than the regular price, but I'd definitely have to think about it.

And, about used items. Why on earth do we see auctions going for same as new or even more than new? The only thing I can understand this for is if they are pre-washed only.


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

I actually found an item on the tp that was more than the original cost. I asked if it was new, no. I told the mama what the price went for new, and she said she ended up paying more for it during a frenzy on ebay. I quite frankly told her that if she was willing to go down in price for what a used whatever SHOULD be (I suggested a $) then i would be willing to buy it. She said she would rather sell it on ebay, where she knew she would get her money back.

Good point. For that PARTICULAR item, I bet she would get her money back. Not that that is fair either.

To further your line of questioning...

What if you get an extremely good deal on a used item on an overlooked auction (let's say it had a bad pic or something). Is it unethical (when you are done with it) to resell it at half of its initial VALUE (even if that is more than you paid for it?) You were the one that took the chance on the item, right? AND, no one HAS to buy it from you for what you are asking...


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## Moon Faerie (Aug 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RebeccaL*
And, about used items. Why on earth do we see auctions going for same as new or even more than new? The only thing I can understand this for is if they are pre-washed only.

There are certain dipes that are so hard to come by and are wonderfully fabulous dipes, that people will pay more simply because it's the only way to get them. There are a few things like that that I'd pay top dollar for, even used. Like maybe a pair of nb/sm MM longies in chai latte.

Bidding that high on a hard to get item or offering to pay that much is different to me than being expected to pay it though, just because the prior owner paid more for it.


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## vkberes (Jun 26, 2004)

I think for some it is a hard pill to swallow if you paid $300 for something and then you can only resell it for maybe a little over resale value. With that being said, I think that you need to accept this fact when you do place such a generous bid. You are doing it in the name of the charity and you should feel proud you were able to contribute in such a way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RebeccaL*
And, about used items. Why on earth do we see auctions going for same as new or even more than new? The only thing I can understand this for is if they are pre-washed only.

It's all about supply and demand.


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## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

Good points and questions, all...

I suppose it all comes down to what the market will bear, doesn't it? For certain hyena items, you can pretty much ask whatever you want, $-wise, and there will be someone out there willing to pay it. But it always leaves me with a bit of funny feeling when I see that happen (with re-sold items) b/c the WAHM-mama isn't seeing that extra profit, nor is the charity (if it was a charity auction item). Just doesn't seem right somehow...

In the case of the hypothetical used item you got a great deal on, I see fewer issues with re-selling at market value; after all, people do that with every item under the sun on eBay all the time, don't they? If it isn't worth that, no one will bid on it. The market regulates it pretty effectively...

Ah, the interesting microcosm of fluff economics :LOL -- someone should teach a course on this







...

Guin


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Maybe you read my post in the TP about some stuff I am about to sell?

I have a ton of stuff I bought in charity auctions. I have a Fussybutt set I paid $400 for! I would NEVER list it for $400 (and who would pay me that!). I usually email the WAHM for a normal total and go from there. I think charity auctions are usually special sets too which does make them a bit higher.

Look at it like this:

Say MM and Baby Bloomrs do a regular auction at WAHMChicks. The sets go for an average of $150. Then they do a set together for charity. The sets go for almost $300. They never ever do sets for purchase through their store so you have only the regular past auctions to base your asking price on. In the end you still donated a lot of money.

Now I also have a ton of stuff I got in personal or regular auctions. I have a pair of BBB pants I paid $150 for. It was sort of a charity because the mama used the cash to help fund her upcoming adoption. But, it was never officially a charity auction. I feel ok asking what I paid for those.


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## Marco Esquandolas (Feb 4, 2003)

Welp, if it makes anyone feel any better, I do exactly what was asked by a pp-if I buy something below retail, like on a fluke, when I'm done, I resell based on the lowered price I paid to begin with. I remember being asked why and what had I done to nb and smalls oakers to be able to sell them for only $6-$10 bucks each. I stated that I got them for a deal so I was passing along my savings. Wish I saw more of that kinda deal than the other one. Some mamas are in it to see what they can get for it-profit. Others just want to recoup as much as they can. I won't own plenty of things b/c I won't pay over retail for stuff, esp used. Oh well. I have the choice to buy or pass, just as they have the choice to sell for whatever they think they can get. It used to really bug me, but after seeing holey, stained elbees go for over $60 on ebay, and 3+ owners used bbb's go for over $100, nothing phases me anymore. People will pay it if they want it badly enough. fluff economics, indeed.


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## nicandboys (Mar 21, 2002)

I have seen people say they paid a lot for something on auction, and therefore are asking a lot for it when they resell it. But that doesn't mean it was a charity auction, and in that case, I don't see why they shouldn't ask for whatever they want for it. Heck, even if it was for a charity auction, it's their perogative to ask for however much they want for it. No one has to buy it, if they felt that the extra the original buyer paid should be considered a donation.


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## Nada (Oct 27, 2003)

If people are willing to pay, I don't see a problem with it. If you are bothered by the price being asked, don't buy it. I have GLADLY paid wayyy more than retail for items (one was a charity set) that I truly really wanted.

Nada


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## Mama K (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nada*
If people are willing to pay, I don't see a problem with it. If you are bothered by the price being asked, don't buy it.









ITA.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Technically speaking, I think all that matters is that the buyer and seller agree on the price. However, my personal feeling is that if I paid above retail on eBay or for charity purposes, when I resell the item, I should sell it for retail and chalk the rest up to a charitable donation...or to my overzealous bidding. :LOL


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

It would be nice if all the cool charity auction fluff, after being used and loved by the original winner, was then offered into fluffland (via our TP







) at something a bit less than what that item would cost new, retail. (The Baby Bloomrs/MM sets that Kate referred to are a good example of how it's a bit trickier to put a retail price tag on, since they are only ever offered at auction---but figuring out what the individual prices would have been at retail and adding up the totals isn't that tough.) It's a good point that if the seller is asking for more than retail when they resell the item, they are in essence asking for (at least part) their donation to charity back, which isn't exactly very honorable or in the giving spirit of things.















Usually I feel the seller should go to ebay if they want more than retail for an item. (Although sometimes if I've paid X amount for hyena fluff on the TP and then it didn't work out, I'll find someone ISO the same thing on the TP and offer the item to them for just what I paid, and sometimes this figure is over retail for really low-supply, high-demand stuff....that's different, though, than wanting your excess $$charity donation back, that's just hobby-TP-behavior and trying not to lose out $ -for once- in exchange for sampling some fluff that didn't work out.)


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## amysuen (Dec 7, 2004)

Does anyone have experience with other charity events? What happens to those items? I don't have experience, but I know lots of charity dinners exist - can't really resell a charity dinner, now can you?:LOL I assume some dinners have items for auction, what do you think happens to these items when the winners are done with them? For instance if you won a (insert favorite sports star's name here) jersey (or whatever) at a charity auction, would you try to resell it? What price would you try to get? Is charity fluff any different from other charity items?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

As far as I'm concerned, the ending bid of a charity auction is the value of the item. I think of it as the WAHM being the charity donor rather than the bidder. So it makes sense to me that when the bidder re-sells it, they would try to get close to that value back.

Even if you wanted to think of it as the bidder being the charity donor, there's no way to determine how much of their bid was "for the item" and how much of their bid was "for charity."

And, of course, when non-charity auctions go high, I would clearly also expect the winning bidder to try to get as much of their investment back as they could when they re-sold it.

If everyone could just go to the El Bee website (for example) and buy a diaper for $25 whenever they wanted, then naturally when people sold used ones they would always ask less than that. But since it's impossible to just go to the El Bee website and buy a diaper, the retail price becomes meaningless, and the fair market value of the diaper becomes whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. So it is perfectly reasonable for a person to ask higher (even MUCH higher) than the retail price for a high-demand low-supply used diaper. It's perfectly reasonable for them to try to get as much as they can for it. If the price isn't worth it to you, then don't buy it! If the seller can't find anyone who will pay their asking price, they will either reduce their price or decide they'd rather keep it. If someone IS willing to pay that price, though, then there's no reason the seller should have to sell it for less than that.


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## Trishas Tribe (Nov 4, 2003)

Sustainer said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the ending bid of a charity auction is the value of the item. I think of it as the WAHM being the charity donor rather than the bidder. So it makes sense to me that when the bidder re-sells it, they would try to get close to that value back.
> 
> Even if you wanted to think of it as the bidder being the charity donor, there's no way to determine how much of their bid was "for the item" and how much of their bid was "for charity."
> 
> ...


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Thank you for bringing this up. I never know what to do with my charity stuff.

One thing that I've seen on the actual listings is "Please do not sell this item but trade it away" or something like that. Like the FAA auctions. I got the sun shorts/luxe/miniwonder set from the last round of auctions. The sun shorts just do not fit my babe so I wanted to trade them. How do I put a price tag on just the shorts? The set cost me over 300 dollars! According to the actual auction I was not allowed to sell the item afterwards but I could trade it so that is what I did.

It does sting to pay 300 dollars for something and find out it won't fit your child. That was stupidity on my part, but what's done is done. So I traded away my shorts for a custom pair of longies. Good trade? I think so, but it's not worth dollar for dollar what I paid for them. KWIM?

It's just a tricky subject to begin with. It's touchy too. I don't have the balls to put these items on ebay. I don't want to step on anyone's toes or piss off the WAHM. It's not fair to her. It's not fair to any of the crafters.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on.


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## jennyriver (Jul 17, 2004)

most of what i think has already been said but to just add...i don't think it should matter - and isn't unethical - if someone tries to ask the same amount for what they paid for a charity item. if it was an auction item that means several people were in a bidding war for it, which drove up the price. that money has been donated and like sustainer said, was actually a donation by the WAHM, not the auction winner. but even so, let's say i was bidding against kate for a MM/BB set and lost. now, a few months later she is asking somewhere around what my last bid was for the item. if i wanted it then, i probably still want it now and will gladly pay what i would have anyway, had i been the winner of the auction. if the buyer is thinking of herself as the one making the donation, in my mind i'd be thinking, AH...now *I* won the auction and made the actual donation.

and how is any of this unethical if both parties come to an agreement???? i just don't see how an outside party can make any judgement on it. there is no money being lost by the WAHM because she originally did it as a donation (so from the start there was probably no profit anyway). if i agree to pay someone the same as what they paid for an auction item, unless she held a gun to my head, how could that be wrong??? what's wrong with someone ASKING a price for something and someone else AGREEING to pay it????


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## momof2monkeys (Nov 7, 2004)

I agree with Alice, I think that when I pay tons of money for an item, whether it is charity or ebay or whatever, that is my perogative to determine the price I want to sell it for as it now belongs to me. I also consider the WAHM the one that is being generous and giving to charity. For example, when I purchased a pair of shorts from Wonderful Woolies for the FAA charity and I had to pay and put who the donation came from, I put Susan from WW's name as the donor, not mine. It was her generosity that provided the money for the charity. Now these shorts are mine as well as many other items I have bought for charity, and if I want to sell them for more than retail, that is my business. If someone doesn't want to pay it, then don't and if I don't get the price I want, then I will keep them if I choose.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trishas Tribe*
IMO it is totally unfair to the WAHM who made nothing off the item for the second hand seller to make such a profit off of her hard work that was for a good cause.

I think the WAHM is happy that the item was purchased and that the charity got their money. How does it affect anyone what the buyer does after that? If it weren't for the resale value, the item might not have sold for as much and the charity wouldn't have gotten as much, so the WAHM should be grateful for the high resale value. Also, it doesn't do the WAHM any harm for her goods to be valued so highly, ykwim?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trisha Tribe*
There is a way to determine how much was for charity and how much was for the item...ask the WAHM...pretty simple

There is no way the WAHM could possibly know how much the item would have gone for if it had been a regular auction instead of a charity auction.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trisha Tribe*
The Mamas making these items aren't making them so that we as consumers can turn around and fill our pockets with $$ when they donated all of the proceeds to Charity. That just seems so wrong to me.

As I said, I'm pretty sure they're making them so that people will buy them and the charity will get money. And that's what happens.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyriver*
if the buyer is thinking of herself as the one making the donation, in my mind i'd be thinking, AH...now *I* won the auction and made the actual donation.

Ah! Good point! Nothing wrong with people sharing in or assuming the honor of supporting the charity auction!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I want to say something else. Obviously we all appreciate the WAHMs who make these items for charity. What I would like to see is more appreciation for the buyers as well, who shell out a lot of hard earned cash for the items with no guarantee that they will ever be able to re-sell them for anywhere near what they paid for them. Obviously the charity wouldn't get any money if it weren't for the WAHMs, but they wouldn't get any money if it weren't for the buyers, either. So what do you say we don't criticize the buyers and scrutinize their actions. How about we thank them instead? They didn't have to pay all that money for the item in the first place, you know. I think everyone is glad that they did.


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## jaye_p (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
Technically speaking, I think all that matters is that the buyer and seller agree on the price. However, my personal feeling is that if I paid above retail on eBay or for charity purposes, when I resell the item, I should sell it for retail and chalk the rest up to a charitable donation...or to my overzealous bidding. :LOL









:

That said, I did pay (slightly) over retail for a pair of MM longies that the original owner had bought in a charity auction - and was glad to pay the price, b/c they're so beautiful & well-made.


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## daysofelijah (Dec 4, 2004)

I personally don't sell an item for more than I paid for it ever. I haven't ever won a charity auction, but I would probably ask retail if I was going to sell it.
It would leave a bad taste in my mouth to make money off of a wahm. I sold a fussybutt fitted for less than retail and someone commented that I could be asking much more, but I don't think it's right to make money off of a wahm. Jmho


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

You what really bugs me? None of the above bothers me all that much...but when I see someone selling say a used fussybutt for more than retail or more than they paid at an auction and saying "they have to charge more so they don't experience seller's remorse"

Seller's remorse? Why do we have to pay them for that? To me that's just bizarre and just plain wrong.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

You don't *have* to pay them for *anything*. You don't have to buy it at all if you don't think it's worth the price. But if they're afraid they're going to regret letting go of the item if they sell it for less than a certain price, why on earth shouldn't they ask that price?? The price that the item is worth *to them*?

That said, I would never ask more than I paid for something (although if it went higher on ebay I wouldn't mind).


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Alice they can ask anything they want...but I know for myself I refuse to pay them for their seller's remorse. A lot of people get turned off by that.

Like I said...to each their own. I just watch my back so I don't develop a bad rep on the TP or ebay or any place I sell stuff...just my 2 cents


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## vkberes (Jun 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
I want to say something else. Obviously we all appreciate the WAHMs who make these items for charity. What I would like to see is more appreciation for the buyers as well, who shell out a lot of hard earned cash for the items with no guarantee that they will ever be able to re-sell them for anywhere near what they paid for them. Obviously the charity wouldn't get any money if it weren't for the WAHMs, but they wouldn't get any money if it weren't for the buyers, either. So what do you say we don't criticize the buyers and scrutinize their actions. How about we thank them instead? They didn't have to pay all that money for the item in the first place, you know. I think everyone is glad that they did.


I think this is really what is important. What the OP posted about is something that many will continue to disagree on but I love when buyers are very generous with these charity auctions.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *threeforme2005*
I know for myself I refuse to pay them for their seller's remorse. A lot of people get turned off by that.

Like I said...to each their own. I just watch my back so I don't develop a bad rep on the TP or ebay or any place I sell stuff

Like I said, if you don't think a diaper is worth the price, don't buy it. That's fine. I would never hold it against someone for not being willing to pay a certain price for a diaper, just as I would never hold it against someone for asking a certain price for a diaper. If they can get that much for it, more power to them! And if you can find one for the price you're willing to pay, more power to you!

I just don't see why anyone should be "turned off" by someone asking for the amount that an item is worth *to them.* Why should someone get a "bad rep" for selling their item at whatever price they need to sell it at to make sure they don't regret letting it go? I think it would be better to leave emotionalism out of it and just decide whether an item is worth it *to us* (as buyers) or not to pay the price for it. If it's worth the price, pay it. If not, don't. It's unreasonable to resent the seller. Do you think that if they aren't willing to sell it for less than it's worth to them then they simply shouldn't offer it for sale? I think it would be unfortunate to deprive people (who might be willing to pay the price) of the opportunity of obtaining the item. I for one am always happy when one person gets an amount of money that's worth it to them and another person gets an item that's worth the price to them and a different baby gets to use a lovely piece of fluff. Everyone involved in the transaction is happy and I can't imagine anything more RIGHT.


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## MuhajibahMama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikel1979*
There are certain dipes that are so hard to come by and are wonderfully fabulous dipes, that people will pay more simply because it's the only way to get them. There are a few things like that that I'd pay top dollar for, even used. Like maybe a pair of nb/sm MM longies in chai latte.


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## Boadicea (Mar 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daysofelijah*
It would leave a bad taste in my mouth to make money off of a wahm. I sold a fussybutt fitted for less than retail and someone commented that I could be asking much more, but I don't think it's right to make money off of a wahm. Jmho

Okay, I don't get this whole concept, in relation to the issue of selling things for more than retail. How is that making money "off of the WAHM"? Yes, she put the work into the original piece. And then I spent my money (whether through her retail store, via regular auction, or as part of a charity benefit) to purchase the item. The item is NOW MINE to do with as I please. Yes, it irks me when people are OBVIOUSLY stalking a hard-to-obtain item and then turning right around and selling it brand new on ebay with a BIN way above retail. Even auctioning it with the whole "I overspent" excuse annoys me, I'll admit. But once the item is paid for by me and in my possession, it is mine, and no longer the WAHM's.

If I buy a piece of Fiestaware pottery (I used to collect it, hence the example), and I use it for three years, and then Fiestaware retires that particular piece or that color, I wouldn't feel like I was obligated to sell the piece for less than retail. Would you? If I list it on ebay and it sells for a much higher price than I paid for it, does that obligate me to send the extra money to the Homer Laughlin company (makers of Fiestware) so that I am not "making money off" of them?!? I purchased the piece, the piece was then mine to do with as I pleased, no? How is this different than a diaper I purchased, used, and then resold for a fair market value ... fair market value being a price the market will support? If the market's not there, and I can't sell the diaper for nearly what I purchased it for, so be it. If it is, so be it. As long as I describe the condition of the piece accurately, and as long as there is someone else willing to pay for the item, then I see it is a fair exchange.

Having said that, I recently sold several pieces that I won at the February Fluff Factory auctions. One of them, I paid more than $300 for ... and paid gladly, mind you. It was a one-of-a-kind KSS soaker and I fell in love with it, and yes it was for charity, but I was IN LOVE WITH THE SOAKER which is why I bid that much. So when I sold it, I explained the situation, and listed it without a price. I stated that I wasn't sure how to value it, what price to ask, but that I was loathe to part with it and was only doing so because of financial hardship, so I wanted to recover as much as I possibly could for it. I asked interested parties to make offers. I ended up selling it for $125 -- considerably less than what I paid for it, but considerably more than the last KSS soaker on the site sold for. Do I feel that it was a fair price? Yes, because I was willing to accept it, and someone else (several someones, in fact) were willing to pay that for an exquisite, hard-to-obtain, one-of-a-kind work of art.

If I had the original of Vincent Van Gogh's Starry Night tucked away in my basement, and my great-grandfather had originally purchased it from Vince for $200, you can bet your bupcus I'd still be asking millions for it now. And I wouldn't be hunting up Van Gogh's long lost relatives to split the profits with them, either, you can be sure.


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Like a PP said: We will never agree on this subject. To each their own


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## deliarose (May 30, 2005)

I took my share of college econ classes and totally understand the whole supply and demand. If someone is offering an item about retail, others will be more likely to purchase it if it is a rare thing. With that said I appreciate the cd moms that have sold used items at or a bit below retail to those diaper virgins. I think it is quite considerate, especially when it is a hyena item.


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## LoveBaby (Jul 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *springmama*
Okay, I don't get this whole concept, in relation to the issue of selling things for more than retail. How is that making money "off of the WAHM"? Yes, she put the work into the original piece. And then I spent my money (whether through her retail store, via regular auction, or as part of a charity benefit) to purchase the item. The item is NOW MINE to do with as I please. Yes, it irks me when people are OBVIOUSLY stalking a hard-to-obtain item and then turning right around and selling it brand new on ebay with a BIN way above retail. Even auctioning it with the whole "I overspent" excuse annoys me, I'll admit. But once the item is paid for by me and in my possession, it is mine, and no longer the WAHM's.

If I buy a piece of Fiestaware pottery (I used to collect it, hence the example), and I use it for three years, and then Fiestaware retires that particular piece or that color, I wouldn't feel like I was obligated to sell the piece for less than retail. Would you? If I list it on ebay and it sells for a much higher price than I paid for it, does that obligate me to send the extra money to the Homer Laughlin company (makers of Fiestware) so that I am not "making money off" of them?!? I purchased the piece, the piece was then mine to do with as I pleased, no? How is this different than a diaper I purchased, used, and then resold for a fair market value ... fair market value being a price the market will support? If the market's not there, and I can't sell the diaper for nearly what I purchased it for, so be it. If it is, so be it. As long as I describe the condition of the piece accurately, and as long as there is someone else willing to pay for the item, then I see it is a fair exchange.

Having said that, I recently sold several pieces that I won at the February Fluff Factory auctions. One of them, I paid more than $300 for ... and paid gladly, mind you. It was a one-of-a-kind KSS soaker and I fell in love with it, and yes it was for charity, but I was IN LOVE WITH THE SOAKER which is why I bid that much. So when I sold it, I explained the situation, and listed it without a price. I stated that I wasn't sure how to value it, what price to ask, but that I was loathe to part with it and was only doing so because of financial hardship, so I wanted to recover as much as I possibly could for it. I asked interested parties to make offers. I ended up selling it for $125 -- considerably less than what I paid for it, but considerably more than the last KSS soaker on the site sold for. Do I feel that it was a fair price? Yes, because I was willing to accept it, and someone else (several someones, in fact) were willing to pay that for an exquisite, hard-to-obtain, one-of-a-kind work of art.

If I had the original of Vincent Van Gogh's Starry Night tucked away in my basement, and my great-grandfather had originally purchased it from Vince for $200, you can bet your bupcus I'd still be asking millions for it now. And I wouldn't be hunting up Van Gogh's long lost relatives to split the profits with them, either, you can be sure.









So *that's* where that painting has been hiding! You shouldn't have said anything April...I am his long lost relative and I've been waiting for that ship to come in.... :LOL so split the profits...lets say50/50...but that's just 'cuz I :heart you!


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## Boadicea (Mar 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveBaby*
So *that's* where that painting has been hiding! You shouldn't have said anything April...I am his long lost relative and I've been waiting for that ship to come in.... :LOL so split the profits...lets say50/50...but that's just 'cuz I :heart you!

You know what, if it were you, Jesse, I'd split it with ya! :LOL And I'd still have millions to spend on a new house ... instead of trying to scrape together several thousand to repair this one. That would be a win-win situation, in my opinion, just like reselling items for higher than retail!


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## Mach5Mama (Dec 30, 2003)

Hmmm, in regards to charity auctions (not overbidding, not scoring hyena stuff then reselling it): as a buyer, I would never dream of selling something for more than it would retail for normally, even if I spent hundreds of dollars on a $25 dollar item. To me, that would be negating the generousity I felt when I bid or bought. Can you have overspending remorse from buying something which will benefit a charity? Sure. Though it's my opinion that if you do, you have no business being generous. If it's conditional, if you want to pass the price of your generosity on to someone else, it's not generosity at all.


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## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:

If it's conditional, if you want to pass the price of your generosity on to someone else, it's not generosity at all.








That's how I see it, too...

Guin


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I don't think it is unethical at all.I mean, really, it is just an exchange. One person pays a good amount, sells to the next person for the same..and so on....It's just the same as if that person paid money alot of money for charity.And really, once you own something,noone can tell you how much to sell it for. The charity has been paid for already, it is now a normal sale.


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## Mach5Mama (Dec 30, 2003)

Ah, that's good to remember. I'll bid really generously for something on the charity auctions next week, take the credit for being a kind, generous human being (since you can't bid anonymously), then ask someone else to pay the same amount for something I used in a couple months!!! What a fantastic idea!!

NOT.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

I agree with that it is *totally ethical* for the person who bought the charity fluff to then do whatever they please with it, ask whatever they want from it. It's theirs, it's bought and paid for, they are the ones who are taking the risk that it may be worth quite a bit when it's time to resell or not worth much, based on the fluctuations of trends/fads in this marketplace. If they find a seller happy to pay the price that they are asking, which is what it is worth *to them* and therefore totally to their discretion what the value is, then both parties win and there's nothing wrong with it.

When I said, "It would be nice if...." I was just speaking about the spirit that our little community TP operates under, in most circumstances, not what is *ethical* or not. For the most part, if you have a seller who is primarily interested in top dollar for her hyena good, she lists it on ebay and ensures that the person willing to give her the most $$ gets the item. If you have a seller who is interested in passing the item along to another MDC mama via our TP, there seems to be some unspoken rule of ettiquite that prevents most mamas from listing the used item out on our TP at a price above retail....







That's just what I've noticed. For the hyenaest of items, I've noticed that most mamas are just trying to recoup their expenses, not make a profit, and that seems to suit everyone quite nicely. (And of course for other items, taking some loss for using an item is standard. ) I think most of us enjoy that you can get some nice things on our TP without paying eBay-auction-driven-up prices, if you are there at the right moment and happen to PM the seller first. It's fun, and a community spirit comes from that, along with all the other nice parts of trading on our TP.

I think it's pretty transparent when people say, "I paid hundreds of dollars for this item from a (possibly charity) auction and I don't know what to ask for it..." Or, "This/these are *really* hard to get and from a custom order I waited a long time to receive, so I really don't know what to ask....." They are simply hoping for someone to PM them with a big $$ offer so they won't have to 'ask' a price way above retail but still be able to liquidate the price for a pretty penny without the trouble and possible MDC exposure/behavior-critiquing of auctioning it via ebay. However, this is against the TP rules, ---all items must be listed on our TP with an asking price, no exceptions. Like it or not, if you can't play by the rules, then you can't use the TP.

I think if you have a very hot used item (Charity or non-Charity) and you'd like a price above retail for it,and don't want to list it on ebay, you sholud start PMing all the people who have posted that they are desperately in search of the item, and ask them to make you an offer, or tell them what price range you are looking to liquidate the item for. Seems more fair to reward those who have tirelessly begged for the stuff on the TP, and let them (who are likely to be the most willing to give you the price you seek) negotiate a sale price with you privately.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:

If it's conditional, if you want to pass the price of your generosity on to someone else, it's not generosity at all.
Well there was *some* generosity there.... I mean the original bidder/buyer is putting the money up first, and taking a chance that she won't be able to get close to what she paid back for it. There are no guarantees playing the hyena game. :LOL

But in general, I do kind of agree that if you are trying to get part or all of your charity donation back when you resell it, you are changing your mind about wanting your money to go to the orphanage or wherever, and asking that the secondary buyer reimburse you and thus, in fact, becoming the *true* , generous charity donator. Which is fine, but something that I don't think the seller always realizes when they are asking a high price for their expensive charity item on the secondary market. I think it's good that we have started this thread and kind of 'got it out there' and said out loud that anyone who is trying to get their donation back via reselling their charity fluff is doing just that--trying to get their donation back.


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## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

Some things to consider...

Charity auctions items are usually "one of a kind" things that the wahm spent extra time and money on just for the charity auction... so they are worth more to begin with. I remember a set done where mm knitted some longies, then it came with a t-shirt dyed by tdd to match, and a diaper dyed by tdd and sewn by fmbg to match. That set is worth more $$$ as a set than those items are worth individually.

And about the charity part.... do keep in mind that wahms almost always donate the amount over retail to the charity too. So, if wahm's items sold for $150, and the auction said that the wahm would give 10%. Well, the items in this auction retail in her store for $75 normally, so when she goes to total up her donations, she donates $90 from that auction. Then, when she is done calculating her donations... she has the number of $163.00.... she'll just round it up to $200.

So, that extra money paid for the item is usually going directly to the charity... and then some.

Teri


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mach5Mama*
Hmmm, in regards to charity auctions (not overbidding, not scoring hyena stuff then reselling it): as a buyer, I would never dream of selling something for more than it would retail for normally, even if I spent hundreds of dollars on a $25 dollar item. To me, that would be negating the generousity I felt when I bid or bought. Can you have overspending remorse from buying something which will benefit a charity? Sure. Though it's my opinion that if you do, you have no business being generous. If it's conditional, if you want to pass the price of your generosity on to someone else, it's not generosity at all.

Again, you're assuming that the difference between the retail price and the winning bid is "the donation." To me, that's like saying that if this one-of-a-kind hyena item were sold in a regular (non-charity) auction, it would only sell for retail price. That's ridiculous. It wouldn't.

The difference between what it would go for in a non-charity auction and what it goes for in a charity auction is the "charity amount." And there's no way to determine what that amount is.

Even if you *could* determine what that amount is, nothing can change the fact that the person has paid it and nothing can "undo" that. If they sell it for the same amount later, maybe it's because the item is worth more several months later than at the time of the auction. These items can appreciate in value. Or maybe the "charity amount" was zero for that person. Meaning, maybe they would have bid exactly the same amount for the item in a regular auction. (It's still good that they bought it, right? The charity still got the money.) It's just so silly to think that you can know what all these variables are. It all comes back to the fact that it's good that the person bought the charity item, the charity got the money, and if someone else wants to buy it from them for a lot of money later WHY NOT? Why should it be anyone's concern what they do with it after they buy it? If people are going to decide to *make* it their concern for some reason, you're going to see a lot fewer charity bidders. And that's not good!


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

I agree with Alice and April, among others.

What if I am all rich one month and I spend $500 on a MM/Fussybutt/Luxe set at Fluff Factory. 50% of the money goes to the charity. Maybe the WAHMs put in more, I dont know. All I know is the auction said 50% goes to charity and the WAHMs get the rest (and I don't think this is wrong at all!). Now I have a tough month and need some cash. I decide to sell the set. What is it's worth?

Seperately the items are worth less than as a set. So do I break it all down and ask for the total plus shipping and handling? Do I sell it for $250 because that was the 50% marck? Or do I ask for $450?

Well, it's up to me isn't it.

What if there was a similar auction for a similar set that wasn't for charity. The set went for $500 too. Does that mean that the set I bought really is worth $500 and I can ask that much for it? Who decides?

I get to decide.

Not all auctions are 100% donations either. THe WAHMs do get retail for their items. Of course lots more donate any money they may have made and that is awesome!

Soooooo.. I have two MM/BB sets. One for charity and one not. I paid X amount for the one for charity and Y amount for the one not for charity. Really, it is up to the seller to decide how much to ask and the buyer to decide how much they are willing to pay.

I don't get why it is different for charity auctions and not for items bought directly from the WAHMs. I see tons of stuff go for more than retail all the time on the TP. Some I wouldn't pay extra for, some I might. That is between me and the seller right?


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

Really, it is up to the seller to decide how much to ask and the buyer to decide how much they are willing to pay.

I don't get why it is different for charity auctions and not for items bought directly from the WAHMs. I see tons of stuff go for more than retail all the time on the TP. Some I wouldn't pay extra for, some I might. That is between me and the seller right?








:








to the OP from a fellow New Mexico mama


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## Boadicea (Mar 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
I think it's pretty transparent when people say, "I paid hundreds of dollars for this item from a (possibly charity) auction and I don't know what to ask for it..." Or, "This/these are *really* hard to get and from a custom order I waited a long time to receive, so I really don't know what to ask....." They are simply hoping for someone to PM them with a big $$ offer so they won't have to 'ask' a price way above retail but still be able to liquidate the price for a pretty penny without the trouble and possible MDC exposure/behavior-critiquing of auctioning it via ebay. However, this is against the TP rules, ---all items must be listed on our TP with an asking price, no exceptions. Like it or not, if you can't play by the rules, then you can't use the TP.

I think if you have a very hot used item (Charity or non-Charity) and you'd like a price above retail for it,and don't want to list it on ebay, you sholud start PMing all the people who have posted that they are desperately in search of the item, and ask them to make you an offer, or tell them what price range you are looking to liquidate the item for. Seems more fair to reward those who have tirelessly begged for the stuff on the TP, and let them (who are likely to be the most willing to give you the price you seek) negotiate a sale price with you privately.

Well, look, I'm transparent. (I always thought it was rather difficult to see through a 180 pound woman, but what the hell do I know?) And in violation of MDC rules, too. Pretty rotten person all around, huh?

Whatever.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spatulagirl*
I see tons of stuff go for more than retail all the time on the TP. Some I wouldn't pay extra for, some I might. That is between me and the seller right?

You'd think so!

Sometimes I think some of the posts on these threads are simply based on certain people wanting to be able to pay only $20 for items that are actually worth a lot more than that.







:

I remember someone once saying that she listed a hyena item on the tp and was immediately swamped with PMs begging her for it. She said that a few of the PMs were demands that she sell the item to them for a lesser price. At the time, it was difficult to believe that anyone would have the gall to send such a pm. It's a little easier to believe now.







:


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## Staceyhsmom1 (May 7, 2002)

geez....I have a knitted item I bought in a charity auction that no longer fits my dd. I know what I paid for it, but don't know the regular price, nor do I have the paperwork to contact the wahm anymore. so if you see me trying to sell it on the tp, it's not me trying to get the best price, it's a homenest mom trying to sell something for a fair price.

I think people can sell for any price they want, but I wouldn't pay about the regular price, unless it was unique, or matched perfectly with something I own, etc. I would 'cover' the monies spent to the auction. I would expect the seller to accept a loss(the charity part).

Also, some charity items don't sell above the cost of the item, so the wahm loses out as well as the charity :-(


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
But in general, I do kind of agree that if you are trying to get part or all of your charity donation back when you resell it, you are changing your mind about wanting your money to go to the orphanage or wherever, and asking that the secondary buyer reimburse you and thus, in fact, becoming the *true* , generous charity donator. Which is fine, but something that I don't think the seller always realizes when they are asking a high price for their expensive charity item on the secondary market. I think it's good that we have started this thread and kind of 'got it out there' and said out loud that anyone who is trying to get their donation back via reselling their charity fluff is doing just that--trying to get their donation back.









That's an incredibly judgmental way of looking at it.

The money they paid to charity has gone to charity. Nothing the person who owns this unique item does will change that - nothing.

So what if they need/want to sell the item?

Maybe it doesn't fit... maybe they don't use it... maybe they used it and want to pass it along.

There's nothing wrong with getting the best price you can for something.

Especially a one of a kind item.

From what I've seen on the TP, I seriously doubt many mama's are getting their money back out of those items. What people will pay for something one of a kind in a heat of the moment auction atmosphere, and what they'll pay for a used unique item afterwards, are two different things.

Personally, I think whoever bids on charity auctions is doing a wonderful favor by usually paying far above retail on an item with the knowledge that the money will be donated.









As far as what they do after that - who the hell cares?

I've never even bid on a charity auction yet. But count me as one who doesn't think there's anything the least bit wrong (or counter to the "spirit" of the TP) with selling charity stuff for whatever you want. OR selling stuff for more than retail.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I remember someone once saying that she listed a hyena item on the tp and was immediately swamped with PMs begging her for it. She said that a few of the PMs were demands that she sell the item to them for a lesser price. At the time, it was difficult to believe that anyone would have the gall to send such a pm. It's a little easier to believe now.
This happened to me, not once, but twice. If I had saved the pm's I'd be happy to forward them to you







Now, my hyena stuff pretty much only goes to ebay. I just don't like the begging, demanding and "please take pity on me, i never got a custom, never got to try this, my life sucks right now" pm's







I just sold a nb/sm MM soaker on ebay, only worn 3 times, for $30-something. When you post on ebay, you take your chances, too, but I'd rather have a simple transaction on ebay than all the drama from some tp transactions I've encountered







:

And I'm still in the "if you don't like what someone is asking for an item, don't buy it" camp


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## organicmommy (May 16, 2005)

The only way I think that the mamma should not ask for what they paid for it is if they use the amount they paid as a charitable donation on their tax's. They have reaped a benefit of having put that money towards charity and now they are going to ask for that money back to me is not right.

But if it is the wahm that gets the charitable donation on the tax's then I think it is totally fair to ask what the mamma paid for the item to try to recoup at least part of what she paid.

I for one have a hard time spending more than retail, but I also am not a huge HYENA fluff person. I love my mutts and prefolds and harleyz. That is about all we use.
Although I will be watching a couple of those fluffy factory auctions as well because they are just Super cute adn I think that I may need one of them!

I think that each is gonna do what they feel is right for them and you don't have to pay that amount if you don't want to spend that. That is your choice just as it is theirs to pay it originally and it is their choice to offer it up for sale in the end!


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayleeZoo*
This happened to me, not once, but twice. If I had saved the pm's I'd be happy to forward them to you







Now, my hyena stuff pretty much only goes to ebay. I just don't like the begging, demanding and "please take pity on me, i never got a custom, never got to try this, my life sucks right now" pm's







I just sold a nb/sm MM soaker on ebay, only worn 3 times, for $30-something. When you post on ebay, you take your chances, too, but I'd rather have a simple transaction on ebay than all the drama from some tp transactions I've encountered







:

And I'm still in the "if you don't like what someone is asking for an item, don't buy it" camp









I hope you're not saying it bugs you when people OFFER you less for an item. If so, you would probably HATE me!









I frequently make offers on stuff to people... especially if it's been on the TP for a while.

But, I don't DEMAND less or anything... and I hope I've never given anyone a sob story...


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Charity or not,and whatever the origional intent for buying the item was~~~~~~~~~i can do whatever I want with my stuff. I can sell it to get full reimbursment if I want, I can give it away, I can sarifice and sell it for way below what it is worth on the TP for people who think everything should be cheap.....It's my item.Period.
I think there is a common courtesy and understanding on the TP. Mamas want a great deal.I love the TP. I love getting things cheap, and selling cheap. But not everything.

That aside, when the origional charity auction is over, it doesn't matter what happens to the "stuff".Thats a mere byproduct of the charity. Which is why most of us bid in the first place.

I don't think mamas here should be made to feel like they have to be martyrs and never get their money back on stuff. I mean, selling on Ebay, or selling for the real worth of the item is simply being smart.


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## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

: back to Brandi -- hey, are you in my neck of the desert?







I'm in northern NM...

Now, as to the topic at hand...

I agree with much of what Angelica said. I think it's worthwhile to draw some distinction here between *ethics* and the *social morés* of re-selling charity items here at MDC. Is it unethical to ask to be fully reimbursed for your charity auction purchase? Arguably not -- as many posters here have expressed, the selling price is ultimately between the seller and the buyer; if a buyer is willing to pay the price, then the laws of the market deem it to be a fair price.

But does this practice go against the unspoken (and occasionally spoken, like in this thread







) morés of this particular community? Perhaps so...there seem to be quite a few people here, like myself, who find the idea of profiting from what was originally supposed to be a generous act a little strange.

I wouldn't (and didn't) expect us to all agree on this topic, btw -- diversity of opinion is what makes the world interesting, no?









One last thing: I don't see this question as inherently criticizing the buyer or saying that anyone should be able to buy anything for nothing, but simply more as exploring an issue of MDC diapering economics. And to whomever suggested that bringing this up will dissuade anyone from bidding on the upcoming fluff auctions, I respectfully have to :LOL -- let's face it, the diapering world isn't exactly in danger of losing its hyenas, and if the thought of not recouping your entire investment on a charity auction is enough to prevent you from bidding, then you obviously weren't very interested in being charitable in the first place, were you?

Guin


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## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

These threads just get more and more interesting...

Honestly, if somebody wants to pay $400 for a wet that somebody else purchased on an auction... charity or not... that's totally cool. I mean, it keeps the market good and all.

If somebody gets $400 for the MM/FMBG/TDD set, then the next charity auctions that come around have a similar set with completely different colors... people are more likely to bid high anyway... because they see that it is worth more.

I dunno that there is even a moral or ethical issue in how much you sell something for.... If buyer wants to pay that much, and seller wants to sell for that much... who cares? Both parties are happy. The wahm is happy that an item is being passed on and getting used.... because that is the whole idea, to get as many uses out of the items as possible and keep from using disposable items. The wahm is also happy to see that people like her stuff so much that they are willing to pay that much for it.... It's a huge compliment really.

I dunno... I guess I just don't see why it's even an issue.









Teri


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

well, when I first looked at this thread, I thought that it perturbed me a bit too.But after thinkin gabout it,I think here we are just conditioned to think about it that way.I mean, we are used to mamas selling things cheap to other mamas on the TP.








But not everyone does it that way.I mean, I think it is great that that is not our only option either.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I hope you're not saying it bugs you when people OFFER you less for an item
Nope, I've even offered people less than the asking price on the TP a couple times.







I'm talking about PMs literally demanding that they be the recipient of a certain piece of fluff, but that they can only pay X amount, etc. (And the sob stories turn me off, too, but that's another thread







)


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *organicmommy*
The only way I think that the mamma should not ask for what they paid for it is if they use the amount they paid as a charitable donation on their tax's. They have reaped a benefit of having put that money towards charity and now they are going to ask for that money back to me is not right.









:
I forgot to say that out loud in any of my posts, but in terms of donating to charity, I sort of assumed people would then deduct the amount as a charity donation on their taxes, and then to get the donation back later, well....
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
I mean, selling on Ebay, or selling for the real worth of the item is simply being smart.

I totally agree, Leila! I wish people didn't totally gloss over the fact that in terms of what is right, and what is ethical, I totally agree with Alice, Kate, and others who say they can do whatever they want with their items and get whatever price someone is willing to pay! We've discussed selling hyena fluff on ebay often enough for my standpoint on that to be obvious, as a very vocal libertarian on this forum.
What was taken as my being 'horribly judgmental' was the side point that I was trying to make that our little TP is a place where friends come and mingle and swap, and where in general, it's not the best avenue for trying to get the absolute maximum price for an item that the market will bear. That is what ebay is for.

I also want to add, that I *far prefer* selling fluff on ebay--less hassles, higher prices for the seller, bigger audience, stuff actually sells that would NEVER sell on the TP.... so much easier all around!!! Iand of course I enjoy when something goes for over retail!!! That's awesome because it helps to offset all the times I've sold stuff for dirt cheap and barely gotten the shipping amount for it, being in Finland.) I like to use the TP for transactoins that I consider 'amongst friends' and often include gifts along with the purchases... the TP is so fun for that kind of thing so I do use it, but in general if I have to raise some $$ and move some fluff, I like the no-hassle aspect (and higher $$proceeds raised) of eBay.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*







:
I forgot to say that out loud in any of my posts, but in terms of donating to charity, I sort of assumed people would then deduct the amount as a charity donation on their taxes, and then to get the donation back later, well....
















I totally agree, Leila! I wish people didn't totally gloss over the fact that in terms of what is right, and what is ethical, I totally agree with Alice, Kate, and others who say they can do whatever they want with their items and get whatever price someone is willing to pay! We've discussed selling hyena fluff on ebay often enough for my standpoint on that to be obvious, as a very vocal libertarian on this forum.
What was taken as my being 'horribly judgmental' was the side point that I was trying to make that our little TP is a place where friends come and mingle and swap, and where in general, it's not the best avenue for trying to get the absolute maximum price for an item that the market will bear. That is what ebay is for.

I also want to add, that I *far prefer* selling fluff on ebay--less hassles, higher prices for the seller, bigger audience, stuff actually sells that would NEVER sell on the TP.... so much easier all around!!! Iand of course I enjoy when something goes for over retail!!! That's awesome because it helps to offset all the times I've sold stuff for dirt cheap and barely gotten the shipping amount for it, being in Finland.) I like to use the TP for transactoins that I consider 'amongst friends' and often include gifts along with the purchases... the TP is so fun for that kind of thing so I do use it, but in general if I have to raise some $$ and move some fluff, I like the no-hassle aspect (and higher $$proceeds raised) of eBay.









I know I am planning on selling a bunch of stuff on Ebay soon. My reasoning as of late is that it simply doesn't sell lately on the TP unless it is like $5. Or brand new.IMO.
And I have some not so hyena-ish stuff to get rid of and I am tired of listing it repeatedly.......

I also want to donate some to a goodwill, and the donation threads though.

I mean, I love EBAY. Nothing wrong with being shrewd when it comes to money.I mean, people are shrewd when they try to be frugal,no?


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
There's nothing wrong with getting the best price you can for something.

I wholeheartedly agree with that, and I hope you'll go back through and see that I was trying to make a difference between the ethics of this question and simply the atmosphere most of us have come to enjoy and expect of our TP, and what types of asking prices seem to surprise us and not seem quite in the spirit of our TP. I don't think anything bad for a mama who needs to get the most money out of the fluff she needs to move for whatever reason--I just don't see why she doesn't head to ebay with the stuff so she *can* get the highest price the market can bear and everyone is happy.









Oh and April, I'm so sorry I offended you.







My opinion is not that there's anything wrong with you or that you are a horrible person for needing to sell charity fluff for a nice price--I wasn't trying to say that at all! Just that I think it's probably a lot easier and more seamless to use a wide-audience auction site like ebay to get the most you can, and it also gives the most mamas a chance at the item, so as a buyer I prefer ebay as well because everyone has a fair shot at something. And that I, like a few others, was sort of under the assumption that stuff generally isn't listed out in the open for over retail on our TP (I guess I just haven't seen that happen, perhaps I was being totally naive and wrong about that).


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Guinevere*
I agree with much of what Angelica said. I think it's worthwhile to draw some distinction here between *ethics* and the *social morés* of re-selling charity items here at MDC. Is it unethical to ask to be fully reimbursed for your charity auction purchase? Arguably not -- as many posters here have expressed, the selling price is ultimately between the seller and the buyer; if a buyer is willing to pay the price, then the laws of the market deem it to be a fair price.

But does this practice go against the unspoken...morés of this particular community? Perhaps so...there seem to be quite a few people here, like myself, who find the idea of profiting from what was originally supposed to be a generous act a little strange.











Thanks so much for getting what I was trying to say, Guin!









But as others pointed out, chances of getting ALL their investment back is slim once the item is used, and they are the ones who were willing to put the money up to the charity to start with, taking the risk that they may not be able to get much of it back on the secondary market. So their act of charity was still generous to put up the chunk of cash with no guarantees on seeing much of it again.








Just seems so much more simpler to let the buyers duke it out and set the market price, which is why I love eBay.


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Well I guess people here really don't mind if someone sells their charity auctions at full price. I always assumed people got turned off by that. Shows how much I know. I guess in the future I will remember this thread and just offer up my stuff for as much as I want to make. I learn something new every day. This thread has been a huge eye opener for me


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Guinevere*
if the thought of not recouping your entire investment on a charity auction is enough to prevent you from bidding, then you obviously weren't very interested in being charitable in the first place, were you?

I'm not saying that thinking they might not be able to recoup their entire investment is what will deter people. That would be a pretty unrealistic expectation, and I think people know that. What I'm talking about is people being criticized in advance for even considering the possibility that they might want to *try* to get back *close* to what they paid for something. This thread just isn't a very good way to encourage bidders. They're going to be afraid that they don't dare try to sell anything once it's outgrown for any amount above retail. And, therefore, they might not bid as high, or they might not bid at all.









Oh, and by the way, I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with offering less for something if you aren't willing to pay the asking price. As long as you aren't nasty about it! I mean, it is just completely uncalled for to say something that implies that the seller has no business asking the higher amount in the first place. I'm totally on the side of anyone who replies to such a pm by saying that she'd rather put the item on ebay and get more for it!

Speaking of ebay, it's fine if you want to use it for the times you want to get more money and only use the tp to sell things cheap, and it's fine to recommend that others do the same if they want to get the highest price they can get on certain items. However, some people don't want to use ebay for whatever reason, and it should be fine to try to get as much money as they want on the tp. I don't think that a group of people who think the tp should be for buying things cheap should be the ones who get to dictate what the "spirit" of the tp is supposed to be. The tp is for *everyone* -- those who want to sell things cheap AND those who want to try to get more money for their items. I don't think higher asking prices "spoil" the spirit of the tp. If you see a price you don't like, just pass the item by (or offer less, or wait and see if the seller drops the price).


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## Pinoikoi (Oct 30, 2003)

Sustainer said:


> Oh, and by the way, I agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with offering less for something if you aren't willing to pay the asking price. As long as you aren't nasty about it! I mean, it is just completely uncalled for to say something that implies that the seller has no business asking the higher amount in the first place. I'm totally on the side of anyone who replies to such a pm by saying that she'd rather put the item on ebay and get more for it!
> QUOTE]
> 
> I don't think anyone was suggesting anything *nasty* I think a lot of momma's just really don't KNOW what something goes for retail.. and then they end up getting nailed on ebay (or wherever) and they need to know what retail really IS. It is a matter of fluffy education, right? The mama I was dealing with looked up the retail price after I POLITELY asked if it was over retail (I thought it was more, but wasn't CERTAIN), and she made a big deal that she was glad it was not. When another mama corrected her that she was looking at the wrong product, and that her item actually WAS more than retail, then all of a sudden it didn't matter, she was sticking to her price.
> ...


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Ooops, never mind.


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## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

and paid way over the retail price which is reasonable because it is for charity then I would not turn around and sell it at the charity auction price but rather at the retail price because that is morally correct in my opinion. The whole reason for the price to be high was for that money to go to the charity and not any other reason.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamingMama*
and paid way over the retail price which is reasonable because it is for charity then I would not turn around and sell it at the charity auction price but rather at the retail price because that is morally correct in my opinion. The whole reason for the price to be high was for that money to go to the charity and not any other reason.









I agree, but I couldn't find a way to say it as succintly as you did. :LOL


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## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
I agree, but I couldn't find a way to say it as succintly as you did. :LOL

Doh, what does succintly mean? Sorry, not good with them crazy words.









Okay, I looked it up. I think you meant this.
*Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; concise and terse: a succinct reply; a succinct style.* :LOL
Gee thanks.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Charity might be *one* reason for bidding to go higher, but it is not the only reason. Another reason is that it's a one-of-a-kind piece of hyena fluff whose market value is well above retail.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Well, good grief. Not only am I not succinct, but I can't even spell succinctly today! :LOL


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Trishas Tribe said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
> ...


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Couple things:
1. Some auctions are a split between WAHM and donation. So the WAHM is not being ripped off and again, the seller isnt making ant sort of profit. Either way, the money went to charity (and WAHM) and that is what matters.

2. I have an item on the TP and said I wasnt sure how to price it, I am not trying to lure in a high offer, just asking.

3. Is it just me or the only people saying it is unethical the ones who have *not* shelled out hundreds of dollars for fluff?


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
I don't think anything bad for a mama who needs to get the most money out of the fluff she needs to move for whatever reason--I just don't see why she doesn't head to ebay with the stuff so she *can* get the highest price the market can bear and everyone is happy.









Speaking for myself, I like to give MDC hyenas (or virgins) a chance first. Plus, if it went for $300 on ebay, I would probably feel guilty. I think there is a fine line between asking what is fair and taking advantage of having high-end fluff.


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## Mach5Mama (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee*
I'm with Angelica on this one, but the main reason I'm posting is to offer up a litle PSA about US taxes. You cannot deduct a "charitable contribution" if you received anything for it in return. It has to be a straight financial donation. So, something that you buy in a charity auction cannot be deducted.

Just didnt' want anyone to get audited. :LOL

Hmm I was under the impression you could if you subtracted out the retail value of the item you recieved. Like when I buy a 30 dollar (retail) cookbook during the PBS fundraising drives and pay 100 for it, I can write off the 70 dollars.


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## Mach5Mama (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
Couple things:
1. Some auctions are a split between WAHM and donation. So the WAHM is not being ripped off and again, the seller isnt making ant sort of profit. Either way, the money went to charity (and WAHM) and that is what matters.

2. I have an item on the TP and said I wasnt sure how to price it, I am not trying to lure in a high offer, just asking.

3. Is it just me or the only people saying it is unethical the ones who have *not* shelled out hundreds of dollars for fluff?


I think it's unethical, and I have shelled out hundreds of dollars for fluff.


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
3. Is it just me or the only people saying it is unethical the ones who have *not* shelled out hundreds of dollars for fluff?

Well I shelled out 316 dollars for the FAA set and I thought asking for that back was unethical.







:


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

I guess it is just a difference of opinion b/c I read all 4 pages and dont see how it is unethical. If the seller isnt making a profit, the charity and/or WAHM got paid, why would it be unethical?

Also, I think there is a difference between saying "I choose to sell auction items at retail." as opposed to saying, "It is wrong/unethical/etc." Making it an absolute makes people feel guilty YK?

This conversation reminds me of the "Why would anyone pay $100 for a dipe"

PHP Code:

```
[CODE]<span style="color:#000000;"><span style="color:#0000BB;">I think its unethical</span><span style="color:#007700;">, and </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">I have shelled out hundreds of dollars </span><span style="color:#007700;">for </span><span style="color:#0000BB;">fluff</span><span style="color:#007700;">. <br></span> </span>
```
 [/CODE]

I meant auctions not just fluffy items. I think it is easy to say "I would never do that" when you havent spent $400 on an auction.


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Okay, my theory is wrong







:LOL


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
Also, I think there is a difference between saying "I choose to sell auction items at retail." as opposed to saying, "It is wrong/unethical/etc." Making it an absolute makes people feel guilty YK?

.


I agree. I don't htink anyone should ever have to feel guilty for selling something at or near the price they paid for it!It' s silly, really. I think some people just have money issues?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mach5Mama*
Hmm I was under the impression you could if you subtracted out the retail value of the item you recieved. Like when I buy a 30 dollar (retail) cookbook during the PBS fundraising drives and pay 100 for it, I can write off the 70 dollars.

Even if this were the case, are you sure all you would have to subtract is the retail price? Even if the market value is significantly higher than the retail price? (In other words, if you had bought it in a non-charity auction, it still would have cost much more than the retail price. Wouldn't *this* be the amount you would have to estimate and subtract?)


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## bunnyhatanpaa (Jun 16, 2005)

ok so all you mams have made really good points, i dont really know were i stand..

i guess if it was an item that i really wanted i would buy it.
but i think if you donate money then others should not be able to see your name, then its like more for show or something. I love giving but it makes it hard to donate if others can see you much eveyone is paying. because then its like my little donation is worth less or something

but i do kind of think once someone has bought the dipe then it is up to them to sell it for however much they want (if at all). but at the same time it is kind of like the next buyer is paying your donation. but whatever.. as long as both the seller and the buyer are happy right?


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
Is it just me or the only people saying it is unethical the ones who have *not* shelled out hundreds of dollars for fluff?

There's a lot of us who are saying that it's *entirely ethical* to ask whatever price you want for your property, but that in terms of how we feel about our community TP, trying to recoup your charitable auction win *there* seems a little 'off' to some of us. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to pay the asking price, which is why I totally see nothing wrong with asking whatever you want to ask for it....but it just _feels funny_ to see someone wanting _a lot_ of $$ for a *used* item on our TP because the price of it went really high for charity to begin with. (Yes, some of the items are very special and one-of-a-kind, but let's be straight, I've never seen anything auctioned off for charity that was so unbelievably alien-in-nature to _anything_ previously stocked/sold at retail directly from the WAHM. So, a ballpark retail price isn't impossible to come up with.)

And no, I have never, unfortuantly, found myself in the cushy financial situation to be able to afford to spend 400 dollars on a single hyena fluffy item, for charity or not.







We have a certain standard of living that doesn't change drastically from month-to-month, and that does allow for my WAHM-supporting purchases to keep cloth diapering fun for me, and I _have_ won charity fluff, but not for insane-bidding-war-driven end prices, since we are not wealthy so my husband would never agree we have the means to spend those kinds of amounts.


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## bunnyhatanpaa (Jun 16, 2005)

one more thing...

i think that once someone wants to sell something that it is no longer worth the price of what it was new!! even if it was only used a couple of times.
the exception would be if it was tried on but didnt fit. but i dont like when someone says...

EUC i paid 60.00 dollars so im only asking for 60.00 dollars.

I think on a diper that get used to poop and pee in that the value does go down. unlike other things like fine china that never gets used and its a retired item or something. i dont know but thats what i thimk


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
There's a lot of us who are saying that it's *entirely ethical* to ask whatever price you want for your property, but that in terms of how we feel about our community TP, trying to recoup your charitable auction win *there* seems a little 'off' to some of us. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to pay the asking price, which is why I totally see nothing wrong with asking whatever you want to ask for it....but it just _feels funny_ to see someone wanting _a lot_ of $$ for a *used* item on our TP because the price of it went really high for charity to begin with. (Yes, some of the items are very special and one-of-a-kind, but let's be straight, I've never seen anything auctioned off for charity that was so unbelievably alien-in-nature to _anything_ previously stocked/sold at retail directly from the WAHM. So, a ballpark retail price isn't impossible to come up with.)

And no, I have never, unfortuantly, found myself in the cushy financial situation to be able to afford to spend 400 dollars on a single hyena fluffy item, for charity or not.







We have a certain standard of living that doesn't change drastically from month-to-month, and that does allow for my WAHM-supporting purchases to keep cloth diapering fun for me, and I _have_ won charity fluff, but not for insane-bidding-war-driven end prices, since we are not wealthy so my husband would never agree we have the means to spend those kinds of amounts.

I hear you I just think it is a slippery slope. I mean does this apply to all acution items (non-charity)? what about used diapers in general. I mean, when I sell used lcothing (DD or mine) I am lucky to get 30% of retail value. Selling used diapers for retail or a few dollars less could be deemed uneuthical or questionable YK??


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Plus, taking hyena fluff to ebay can result in a worse reputation - (IIRC a certain BBB soaker seling for $300 was a huge deal and people wondered why the seller didnt just sell on the TP.) Sort of a damed if you do, damned if you dont situation.

So, I got an ebay FCB for $45, sold it on the TP for 440 (?), is that questionable? The WAHM gets her money, I am not making a profit but I hate to think any MDC mamas think my behavior is shady. I try to be more than reasonable with my TP sales and I dont want ppl to think otherwise.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
Plus, taking hyena fluff to ebay can result in a worse reputation - (IIRC a certain BBB soaker seling for $300 was a huge deal and people wondered why the seller didnt just sell on the TP.)
.

It was a shady huge deal, but for other reasons... the end price was bogus and a MDC friend of mine reported that although she bowed out of the auction long before the end-price-hiking, she was offered the purchase as a secon d chance offering, just minutes after the auction ended, and actually bought the soaker for less than one hundred dollars.


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## JohnnysGirl (Dec 22, 2003)

Oh, and Regina, I don't think you have to sweat ten dollars here, ten dollars there. We are not talking about a diaper that retails for 30 going on ebay for 45, and a mama trying to recoup as much of her expenses as possible when she sells it since it's so popular and hard to get. We are talking more about the items that go sky high, usually for charity purposes, and whether the items are really worth that on the everyday secondary market (with the charity aspect then removed) later on, once they've been worn, used, and peed in. :LOL


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## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Butterflymom*
It was a shady huge deal, but for other reasons... the end price was bogus and a MDC friend of mine reported that although she bowed out of the auction long before the end-price-hiking, she was offered the purchase as a secon d chance offering, just minutes after the auction ended, and actually bought the soaker for less than one hundred dollars.

Interesting, I never heard how that story ended









Okay, I feel better about my $45 FCB story


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

the main problem with trying to decide whats ok to resell at is this. How do you know whether someone bid $400 for a charity auction because a partion or all of it was going to charity OR because they really wanted teh set and would have paid it even if it was not a charity auction? You can not possible read sellers/buyers thoughts and know this... therefore you cant make judgement calls about what they are allowed to sell it for.

Also... to deduct charity items from your taxes you have to be donating to a non profit organization directly ( i believe) and have a receipt from such organization.... since you are buying from the WAHM and the WAHM is donating it would seem she would be the one getting the receipt/deducting thigns from their taxes if that were possible.


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## kath (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
Even if this were the case, are you sure all you would have to subtract is the retail price? Even if the market value is significantly higher than the retail price? (In other words, if you had bought it in a non-charity auction, it still would have cost much more than the retail price. Wouldn't *this* be the amount you would have to estimate and subtract?)

it depends on the tax rules for the item. for charity auction items, you have to take the value of the good out of the amount you can deduct. now, what is the value of the goods? that is the gray area of the irs tax code (i'm not up to date on foreign tax codes so...). there are always going to be rough estimates for these things because as has been stated, you can't buy a mm soaker with a luxe diaper, lets say, in general. only charity auctions. so the retail might be $55 for the soaker and $40 for the diaper or $95 for the deduction but since it is a set, it's market value might be say $150. so if you paid $300 for it in the auction, you should really only get a write off of $150. that said, many people will use a write off of $205 (using just $95 as the basis or value of the goods), since it is easier to prove to the irs. also many people do not even take out the value of the items and just write off the full $300. again, ethics and taxes, a strange mix.

my opinion is always supply and demand. you can ask anything and someone can pay you anything. i'm okay with it.

now personally, i wouldn't ask for my total donation or anywhere near it (probably just ask for retail on the items (so for a mm soaker just $55 and the luxe diaper $40 in my above example or maybe $150 since it is a matching set but even that, i'm not sure), since i do take the tax write offs for chairty auction goods. my reasoning is that i would be "double dipping" if sold the items for my donation and took the tax write off. again, my choice though. if i never took the write off on their taxes, different story since no double dipping. again, just my 2 cents and my opinion.


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## kath (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2kyla*
Also... to deduct charity items from your taxes you have to be donating to a non profit organization directly ( i believe) and have a receipt from such organization.... since you are buying from the WAHM and the WAHM is donating it would seem she would be the one getting the receipt/deducting thigns from their taxes if that were possible.

oh yes, this is true. i was assuming the faa auctions where you donated directly to the non-profit and had confirmation of it. most charity auctions are set up that way (at least in the non diapering community. not sure how the diapering community does it since i've only bought a purse in a ffa auction.).


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## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sustainer*
Charity might be *one* reason for bidding to go higher, but it is not the only reason. Another reason is that it's a one-of-a-kind piece of hyena fluff whose market value is well above retail.

Very True.








I was just stating how I do things not pushing that on others. I cannot always participate in auctions because the one of a kind value is higher then I can afford.


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## threeforme2005 (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *radish*
Plus, taking hyena fluff to ebay can result in a worse reputation - (IIRC a certain BBB soaker seling for $300 was a huge deal and people wondered why the seller didnt just sell on the TP.) *Sort of a damed if you do, damned if you dont situation.*

So, I got an ebay FCB for $45, sold it on the TP for 440 (?), is that questionable? The WAHM gets her money, I am not making a profit but I hate to think any MDC mamas think my behavior is shady. I try to be more than reasonable with my TP sales and I dont want ppl to think otherwise.

This is exactly what I am saying. I've read countless posts on the whole reputation topic of selling diapers. I've seen mamas berated for buying an item only to place it on ebay to make a profit (remember a certain wool cover...ahem?) So I'm just going on what I've read about how MDC works. The bolded quote above says it all. Lots of mixed messages on here.


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## luv2*b*mom (Mar 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nada*
If people are willing to pay, I don't see a problem with it. If you are bothered by the price being asked, don't buy it. I have GLADLY paid wayyy more than retail for items (one was a charity set) that I truly really wanted.

Nada










ITA! There is always gonna be someone doing something that someone else doesnt agree with. If thats the case, dont buy it.


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## wildthing (Feb 16, 2003)

Just a little FYI about some of the charity auctions.....the WAHM does not always get the retail price for the item they put up. For a 100% auction, the entire amount is donated to the charity. Baskets also are typically completely donated by the WAHMs involved. Often if it is a percentage, the WAHM will still donate a larger portion of anything above retail (often 100% of anything above retail). Nothing else to add, just thought I'd mention it.


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## sovereignqueen (Aug 5, 2004)

Just wanted to chime in my 2 cents from working at 501 (c) 3s

Quote:

Donors who purchase items at a charity auction may claim a charitable contribution deduction for the _excess of the purchase price paid for an item over its fair market value_. The donor *must* be able to show, however, that he or she knew that the value of the item was less than the amount paid.
(from the IRS website)

you still have to deduct the fair market value from the price you paid before you claim it on your taxes, even if the item is donated.

The whole topic of acutions can be quite sticky. One one side, its now your personal property, but on the other hand its a matter of personal ethics.

If you won a Vera Wang one-of-dress at a chairity auction for the Philharmonic, at a much above the retail price you'd pay if you atually managed to obtain a custom spot with her, and then wanted to sell it after you'd worn it a few times, should you sell it at a high price simply b/c you paid alot for it?

You could. Alls fair in a market driven economy. It is your property. And there just might be someone willing to pay that much. I personally wouldn't. I might ask a high price b/c of the rarity or uniqueness of the item, but I would keep it on par with what other similarly unique items were going for. KWIM?

Whoever said it was a slipey slope is absolutly right. Hmmmm....I think we need a slipery slope smily.


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## Smullarkey (Mar 31, 2005)

I would have to agree! And if you get your donation back, is it ethical to still claim it as a tax write-off? I've only won one charity auction but I paid over $120 for a wool soaker.







The only reason I paid that much is because every year we donate $100 to a breast cancer research fund so I justified it as my charitable giving for the year! IF I sell that soaker used, I can't imagine asking more than $20-30 for it! Of course I'll never sell it! :LOL


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## sovereignqueen (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smullarkey*
I would have to agree! And if you get your donation back, is it ethical to still claim it as a tax write-off?

Well if you sell it, its technically income, right? So I guess if you claim both, it would be ethical. Not sure, this is just my guess and I could be wrong...as no one ever resold anything (to my knowledge) that the non-profit I worked for auctioned off...I am not an acocuntant, nor to I play one on TV :LOL


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:

may claim a charitable contribution deduction for the excess of the purchase price paid for an item over its fair market value. The donor must be able to show, however, that he or she knew that the value of the item was less than the amount paid.
That's what I thought. You can only write off the amount above the market value. NOT the retail price. And there would be no way to prove that the value of the item is less than the winning bid anyway.


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