# What options do you offer when kids refuse main meal you cook?



## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

What do you allow your kids to eat if they are refusing the dinner you cooked? And how old are your kids? Will you get up and reheat leftovers (allowing your own dinner to get cold)? Or is it strictly something that they can grab themselves?

My kids are 3 & 5, and I really don't want this battle. I know they won't starve. But I do finding myself saying that they have to eat dinner (3-5 more bites, or whatever) if they want to have the dessert that FIL brought over.

My DD would eat yogurt every meal for days on end, my DS would just eat apples for each meal. I know there are worse things in the world, but it does get old buying tons of apples and yogurt. At least DD is getting protein. My son loves the carbs, and would be fine just eating crackers and apples all the time. The straight carbs thing bugs me, especially since I like to have white crackers in the house. So I don't let white carbs be the alternate food.

Some days they eat great, and some days they don't. Even though I cook dinner with them in mind, some days they just don't feel like eating something they loved last month.

What are your acceptable meal alternatives?


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I know lots of families say cereal or a sandwich or whatever the kid could get themselves, but we got burnt out on even that idea going on at our house, when my kids were similar in age to yours. We had a series of conversations about food, food as fuel and food as fun, and talked about how you *don't* have to like everything you eat...for instance, my DH does not like rice (which baffles me, but whatever :lol, but when I make a dish with rice in it, he eats it. Or, he makes chili totally different than I do and I like mine a lot better, but when he makes it, I eat it. We have plenty of opportunities to have foods we love throughout the week, so that when foods we're not crazy about come along, we just eat them anyway because they are good for us in a well rounded diet. The kids each get to choose their breakfast and lunch, and each kid gets to plan one dinner a week. The other 5 dinners are DH and my choice (keeping in mind everyone's preferences), and it's eat what's there, eat what's there as a snack before bed, or wait until morning (because not eating dinner then having a yogurt before bedtime is a pretty good trick, dontcha think?  ). My kids have no sensory issues, and will not starve themselves or make themselves sick, so this is a pretty straightforward thing for us - I understand other people have issues to contend with, but for us it was just pickiness, basically created by us over a long period of time. There is always at least one item they like on the table, even if it's just the salad; but that's the only option, there is no getting up from the table to get something else. The only time now we make the kids separate items is when it's something they find truly objectionable (they both nearly gag when they see casserole/stew/soup consistency foods and it's a texture/flavor blend thing I totally get, so those we don't push - we'll give them maybe one or two bites of it and then something else they do enjoy, so we're slowly working them into it).

I think, *for kids that don't have actual medical/sensory reasons to reject things*, it's kind of an entitlement kind of thing to get to make yourself a separate meal from everyone else just because you don't want what's being served....it's a real privilege to be able to do that, and it makes me feel kind of squicky. I understand everyone has things they truly, truly do not like and that's fine, and we meal plan around that (for instance, DH and I cannot stand seafood so we don't have it in the house - we keep trying it a couple times a year, but none of us like it at all) - but largely, not being "in the mood" or "not liking" something isn't enough of a reason to not eat it, to me. Having a few things you really can't stand eating is one thing; wanting a sandwich 4 nights a week because you "don't like" dinner is completely another IMO.

I imagine if I put out the "if you don't want this, you can make yourself something else" my kids would live on the same 4 or 5 foods, and then wouldn't have started liking all the wonderful things they truly do like now. Sometimes, giving a gentle but firm nudge past comfort zones really does work out well.

*** When we started this "this is what's for dinner, take it or leave it" thing after a few days of conversations/prep, I started slow and easy - like, 2 bites of the things they weren't used to on their plates and plenty of stuff they did like. Then I just worked the "new" stuff up and brought the old reliables back so that the portion sizes of each were reasonable. For us it was mostly veggies that were the problem, and we slowly worked from 2-4-6-8 bites to normal serving sizes for both of them. We don't usually have a problem with meats or starches in this house (though DS isn't crazy about mashed potatoes, likely a consistency thing, he still eats a small portion of them usually together with whatever meat we're having). I had to teach the kids basically to pick around whatever it is they didn't like, a skill I developed apparently on my own as a kid - I could leave a pile of diced sauteed onions on my plate after a meal that would amaze my mom, they were all rooted out and I'd eat everything except those onions in a neat little pile to the side.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

My son is now 9 and he is welcome to grab something out of the fridge if he doesn't like/want what is being served. The only "rules" are he must be polite and if he cooks he need to clean up. We don't bribe, beg, cajole, one-more-bite, etc.

At 3 and 5 it might have been a bowl of cereal, a yogurt, peanut butter crackers, fruit or cut up veggies. I don't short order cook so it had to be something they could do by themselves. These days it might be scrambled eggs, some soup, leftovers. At 9 he much more involved in the meal planning so it is pretty rare that he doesn't eat what is served.

Quote:


> Some days they eat great, and some days they don't. Even though I cook dinner with them in mind, some days they just don't feel like eating something they loved last month.


That is pretty normal. Most nutritionists say to judge based on a week not a meal. Most kids eat a pretty balanced diet when you look at it over a period of time. And think about it-doesnt you desire for certain foods change? I *love* spinach/onion pizza but I don't really want to eat it every month.

I highly recommend the books by Ellen Satter. Here is her website:

http://www.ellynsatter.com/


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I've never really made other options available. Dessert is fruit 99% of the time (we don't eat dessert except on rare, special occasions) and dd has always been welcome to eat as much fresh fruit as she likes after meals if she doesn't feel like filling up on the main course. She is 8 now and has never been a picky eater. We've lived and traveled a lot around the world and we've often been in situations where an alternative just didn't exist. She's learned to adapt. Even if she's not particularly in the mood for a food, she'll eat enough to no longer be hungry and wait for the next meal. She does help prepare meals and has done so since she was about 4 yo. so she usually has some say in what is being put on the table. We've never had major power struggles over food.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

eat what I made or go hungry.

I always make at least 1 thing that I know they'll like. If they refuse that well too bad, they can eat at the next meal. none of them have gone hungry since they were 3-4.

We've never made them eat everything that I served or everything off their plates.

If they want dessert they have to eat something but we rarely have dessert(2-3 times a year).

If it is something new they need to try a bite, if they don't like it they don't have to eat anymore of it.

I agree with looking at what they eat over a week, not a day.


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## *clementine* (Oct 15, 2004)

Want to know some thing even worse? It's my DH who won't eat our dinner- almost, oh, I'd say 4 nights a week. When the kids don't like dinner they are out of luck. Dh has been super picky since childhood and his parents enabled him. Anyway, The4OfUs, I am copying your response to this thread and sending it to him in an email because you worded it in a way that I've not been able to. The gist of it being the entitlement part. I'm dumb struck by his behavior. I've pretty much ignored it, and made him fend for himself, which means he lives on cheeseburgers, but meh....

I'm sick of the extra expensive.

Oh and also, the part about food being fuel, I don't think he's ever heard that before. He wants every meal to be this golden experience. (I could GO ON and ON..............







)

Anyway, he's getting an earful from me today.

Thanks.









(Mutters to self in disgust.)


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## lucyem (Apr 30, 2005)

My boys are 8 & 5. I am the pickiest eater of the family. My worst memories are of my father forcing me to sit at the table until I ate things I despised. To this day I cannot smell cooked corn or I gag. Because of this I have made an effort to keep food interesting and not a battleground. I would never say "eat this or go hungry".

I try and make sure some of the the meal is liked by all. I also have them help with food selection, ask them what veggies they want etc. If I make a new item they have to try a real bite. I have always made sure they have seen me do this as well and when they were little made a real show out of it. If they do not like it they can have something else within reason. They can always have an egg for example. But honestly I cannot even think of the last time one of them asked for something else. Sometimes I do make a meal for me and DH and another meal for the kids because I know the kids hate our meal. I just make their meal less involved. My kids eat a lot of veggies and love salads and have a very good diet.


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **clementine**
> 
> Want to know some thing even worse? It's my DH who won't eat our dinner- almost, oh, I'd say 4 nights a week. When the kids don't like dinner they are out of luck. Dh has been super picky since childhood and his parents enabled him. Anyway, The4OfUs, I am copying your response to this thread and sending it to him in an email because you worded it in a way that I've not been able to. The gist of it being the entitlement part. I'm dumb struck by his behavior. I've pretty much ignored it, and made him fend for himself, which means he lives on cheeseburgers, but meh....
> 
> ...


i totally dated someone like that. luckily my dh will eat anything... at least once LOL. but as a kid he did have more than his fair share of going hungry (no money for food) or eating the same food for weeks on end. so food really was just fuel. i think he still views it this way even though he is a chef. i tell him all the time that i want him to teach our kids to be the same way. he also has this amazing ability to make food out of leftovers or just whatever he has on hand. i am a huge food waster, not picky but i do hate meal planning because it never fails that what i planned a week ago i no longer want.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Food is something DH and I decided to not make a battle over early on. I make sure there is something everyone likes on the table, but for DS who is two I will give extra options and DD is very much allowed to make her own meals. It would be incredibly disrespectful to force another adult to eat something they don't want to eat and we consider it just as disrespectful to make a child do the same. Sure food is fuel, but that is no reason to have to choke down something you think is gross just because it's there. We also believe in listening to what our bodies tell us. Which means if you aren't hungry when dinner is laid out, you don't have to eat and you're allowed to have something a little later when you actually are hungry.

Like Lucy, my kids eat plenty of stuff that is good for them and let to their own devices get all of what they need without anyone having to make them eat it. Maybe not on any one day, but over the course of a week definitely.


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## sillygrl (Feb 10, 2008)

When I make a meal, I keep them and their likes in mind. They are welcome to as much or as little of each item they want. I don't stress eating it all or anything like that. I do ask them to try a bite of new things, but only a bite.

I don't offer alternatives and never have. I do let them use toppings if they want. Like some shredded cheese, ketchup, whatever they think sounds good. Personally, I think cheese makes anything better, lol.

My kids are good. They eat until they're full, they don't complain (well, not all the time), and they're not picky eaters. And if there is a food they're really not liking, I try and find another way to prepare it. Like me and spinach. My whole childhood, my mom only got canned spinach which was soooooo gross to me. It wasn't until I was an adult and tried fresh spinach that I started liking it.

I like the idea of having them help in the kitchen with cooking! Even littles can stir or dump something from a measuring cup to a bowl, etc.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

My children are generally fine about eating what I fix. I make sure there is one thing on the table that all children will eat. DD1 who will be 8 next year is finally discovering food preferences being dislikes and likes, not just being picky. So I am finding that some nights she isn't all that fond of a food she used to eat. She is capable of making her own sandwich or cereal, but I do not cook another other food. My 4y for that matter can fix those things herself. The bigger issue I have at my house is my children will eat a good dinner and then hungry again 30 minutes later but do not want more dinner. They are offered popcorn, fruit or cheese but it usually still involved me quickly making or cutting up something.

I never EVER force a child to eat solely what I cook or go hungry. I remember for years as a child forcing down meals because that was all we got, and it was eat or be hungry. I am not overly picky but did not like red meat, pork or seafood which was basically all my mother fixed and meat always was the main dish and in almost everything she cooked. A bowl of rice just doesn't quite cut it when you are a growing child. By the time I was a pre-teen I had learned how to survive off of very small portions of food, it was not healthy. It took me years to learn how to eat properly and I truly feel that it stunted my growth, while I never fully starved, I never ate enough either. And while on the subject of not truly disliking something, DH has a hatred of sauces and all things yellow (don't ask me why) once were at dinner at a friend's house, everything was yellow or in a sauce, seriously. He tried one bite and actually puked on the dining room table. Yes, they actually did invite us back! Sometimes it is much more then a simple dislike, I think I would do something similar if I ever tasted meat again.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I offer kid-friendly food and do not force anybody to eat anything. But anybody who is not hungry enough to eat what's on the table can certainly wait until the next meal or snacktime without incurring permanent damage, and anybody who is inclined to complain at the table can find somewhere else to be where they are not ruining dinner for the rest of the family. My kids are 6, 4 and 1.5.

My DH was raised in a family with really terrible food habits (chronic overeating, eating lots of junk, criticizing food, demanding three different entrees instead of agreeing on one), and I was raised by people who gardened, hunted and couldn't financially afford to serve three entrees at one meal, so we've decided that my food culture is the one we want to perpetuate in the next generation. It's much cheaper, easier and healthier. DH works HARD to live up to his acquired food values at the dinner table, and after 10 years of effort he's doing quite well. He still can't control the overeating, so if I make too much of something or buy a bunch of junk I have done him a disservice and I feel bad about it later, but he can model good manners for the kids. His brother still counts the side dishes and comments on the texture of every piece of meat he is served and pouts if there are not multiple dessert courses, so I'm really pretty pleased with how far DH has come. It was a total revelation to him when the older two started talking and he heard the ugliness and ingratitude coming out of their mouths at the table and realized that he had taught them that. Before that, he regarded pickiness and complaining as morally neutral issues.

For as hardline as I am about good food manners, though, we don't talk much about it day-to-day. I know what my kids enjoy, and I make it for them.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I did cook meals with little kids in mind when the kids were small. It's easy enough to keep part of a meal plain and kid friendly. However, once my kids were old enough (more than 6) to get their own cereal or PB&J, they had to eat what was in front of them or get their own. No *itching, griping or slandering the cook. I love myself too much to be treated badly. You'd be surprised how many meals they tried because they are too lazy to make their own dinner. Another thing that helps? Have them come to the table hungry. Give scant afternoon snackage and take those kids out to play at the park before dinner. Increased appetite also increases the likelihood that they will try something new. I got my kids to eat tacos this way.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Well I mostly cook to make everyone as happy as possible. My kids are very involved in meal planning and food prep. I think knowing that they have a say in what we eat helps alot. And every meal has something that everyone likes.

I do sometimes make them a totally separate meal when dh and I want something they can't eat because of food allergies.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

I try very hard to not have a situation where dd would refuse what is served. If I know I'm making something she isn't likely to eat I'll make something else too that I know she will. I make a point to not even let on that any one item is specifically so she can opt out of another--there are just options for everyone and we all can eat whatever we choose from them. She makes enough choices in her day--she is not going to dictate that too. Her input is welcome in the meal planning stages, but not so much once it's served. If she's being a grump about the meal, I'm not going to force the issue and she can not eat much. But I might "conveniently" have a healthy snack available later when she's probably going to be hungry.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lucyem*
> 
> I am the pickiest eater of the family. My worst memories are of my father forcing me to sit at the table until I ate things I despised. To this day I cannot smell cooked corn or I gag. Because of this I have made an effort to keep food interesting and not a battleground. I would never say "eat this or go hungry".


this. My son is only 15 mos, and will randomly turn up his nose at a favorite. I can usually find something in the fridge, leftovers, etc.


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## kgianforti (May 22, 2009)

My dad used to make us eat everything growing up - I used to have to sit and eat whatever was in front of me whether I liked it or not. And I used to have to eat it all. I was definitely not traumatized or anything. I understood his reasons - he grew up in WWII Germany and was often starving, so he does.not.waste.food. now.

With my girls, they eat what I make but I don't make them eat every crumb on the plate. If they don't want to eat it, they don't get any snacks and I often just tell them it will be dinner if they don't eat it now.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

My son eats what we eat and I am a good "Mom" cook. I make mashed potatoes form scratch, mac-n-cheese, meatloaf, etc. Nice normal meals that most people like. I serve him small portions so as not to overwhelm him and he is free to eat or not. There is never any force or pleading on our parts-he is free to make his own decisions from the choices on the table. And dessert is usually a cookie that we all enjoy and is available regardless of what or how much was eaten.

But I am not a short order cook and I do not make an extra meal. I serve bread and butter or pb and crackers at every meal so there is always something he can eat if he decides that on Tuesdays he doesn't like mashed potatoes.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> But anybody who is not hungry enough to eat what's on the table can certainly wait until the next meal or snacktime without incurring permanent damage,


That depends on how often it happens. If it's a common occurrence I can result in a problem with overeating when someone has access to food they do like and ignoring hunger cues.


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## no5no5 (Feb 4, 2008)

We believe that it is healthiest to listen to your body and eat what you feel like eating, so there is no pressure in this house to eat something you don't want to eat. That said, no, I do not fix DD alternative meals, and I haven't pretty much ever, unless I'm cooking something I know she won't like (e.g., something spicy). Then I will ask her what she wants and fix it if it's not too complex. She can always grab a carrot or an apple or some crackers and cheese. She can pour herself milk or water. We typically have other fresh fruits and veggies that she likes easily available as well (e.g., bananas, oranges, sugar snap peas, mushrooms, celery). We also usually have nuts available (cashews are a big favorite). Sometimes she just goes for a few pickles, but whatever. I'm not worried about it, and generally she does very well for a 4-year-old.







She probably has a better diet than most adults, actually.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Mine are 6, 3, and 3. I don't cater to pickiness, but I don't force people to stay at the table and eat, either. I don't fix alternatives. I plan meals that include foods I know each person typically enjoys. If they, on that particular day, don't feel like eating those foods, that's fine. There's no forcing. My rules state that you can eat, or not eat, to please yourself, but you may not sit at the table and whine or complain about the food. Anybody who does that is asked to leave the room. If they still want to eat, I'll give them their plate in the kitchen, after everybody else is finished. But I don't offer alternatives like yogurt and sandwiches. If I did that, DD1 would live on nothing but the alternatives, which won't do a thing towards helping her broaden her food horizons. There will be another meal or snack in a few hours, and nobody's going to starve in that interval of time.

That said, we've modified our policy just a bit lately. My DD2 has a migraine condition called cyclic vomiting syndrome. One of the triggers of her symptoms is low blood sugar. If she sleeps on an empty stomach, she wakes up in a terrible condition. So if she doesn't eat her dinner, I will pull her aside before bed and offer her some bread and butter, milk, and raw veggies-- so that at least she eats something. She has a special need, and that needs to be accommodated.

And there is always a plate of raw veggies and fruit on the bottom shelf of my fridge, to which anybody is able to help themselves, whenever they want. So nobody's going hungry, in any case, unless they choose to go hungry, which is not my problem.

I don't start doing it like this until they're two years old, though. Younger toddlers do sometimes find adult foods difficult to manage, and so when I had one year olds I frequently offered more accessible alternatives. So like if we had pork chops for dinner-- DS as a baby couldn't chew those, no matter how finely I cut them. He tried, but he just couldn't. So I'd make a little ground beef, and dress it with the same sauce as the pork had, so he'd feel "included" in what we were all eating, but he had something he could eat without choking.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **clementine**
> 
> Anyway, The4OfUs, I am copying your response to this thread and sending it to him in an email because you worded it in a way that I've not been able to. The gist of it being the entitlement part. I'm dumb struck by his behavior. I've pretty much ignored it, and made him fend for himself, which means he lives on cheeseburgers, but meh....
> 
> ...










Thanks. Awesome.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> 
> But I don't offer alternatives like yogurt and sandwiches. If I did that, DD1 would live on nothing but the alternatives, which won't do a thing towards helping her broaden her food horizons. There will be another meal or snack in a few hours, and nobody's going to starve in that interval of time.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this. If either of my kids showed true distress at being "made" to eat family meals and it seemed to be a genuine problem or a medical issue, then we'd modify things...and when they were little we made things very friendly to their palates and abilities. As it stands, it's just pickiness. I know picky. I was a picky kid; if you would have asked me I would have lived on mac n cheese and bologna and green beans. But I still ate almost all of what my mom made, because I would never think to as for something else, it seemed ungrateful to me. So I didn't really like it? Oh well. It was nutritious, well planned, and well cooked, and my mom made it for me and she loved me and I ate it. I had food that was my favorites at breakfast and lunch, and at many dinners...so when we had things I didn't like, I just ate around them and got what I did like in me, but I didn't ask for a sandwich or something completely different (even if I made it myself).

And the whole, "you wouldn't force an adult to eat something they didn't want" thing just seems weird to me. Adults have been going to dinner parties for centuries and I'm sure that there are regularly adults who are served things they don't like but they eat anyway - it's called good manners. My husband makes several dishes that I wouldn't pick out to make myself, but I eat them anyway. I make several things he doesn't care for, but he eats them anyway. I have never had an adult ask at my parents' house, or ask at my house since I've lived on my own, to get them something different from what I'm serving. I ask guests if there are allergies or intolerances, and ask if they have any favorites, and then plan things from there. I can't imagine a person saying, "can I have a bowl of cereal instead? I'm not in the mood for that." And so within the parameters of age appropriateness, we expect the same of our kids. They get input, we don't force them to eat things they truly, truly dislike and are grossed out by, but "I'm not in the mood for that" isn't a legit response in our house, for *anyone*. We all eat the family meal that was prepared by either me or DH.

As I said before, I can understand having a few true dislikes that make you grossed out; I do, my husband does, and my kids do, and we don't force anyone to eat those kinds of things. But the run of the mill "I don't wanna" kind of thing done regularly just seems soo.....privileged to me, it rubs me the wrong way.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I thank my lucky stars that I have bountiful food supplies in my house to share with my children, and therefore I'm always happy to give them an alternative. I do insist that they eat some sort of protein if they're not eating dinner--so cheese, yogurt, soup, whatever.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

No alternate meals at dinner here (lunch is/was a la carte--now they get what's made for their lunchbox, but they have input on that and it tends to be different for each kid).

I do however have a main dish, a side dish, and a starch. We don't always have dessert at every meal, so if dinner is eaten they get a portion, if they don't eat main dish and veggies they get a "no thank you bite" of dessert anyway. I don't care what they eat at dinner, and after toddlerdom they serve themselves. The only stipulation is that you may not serve yourself seconds if you've not eaten what you were served for firsts (of that specific item--so if you want second helpings of salad, you need to have eaten your first helping of salad) and that habitual offenders of wasting food are only permitted a specific size serving until their eyes are better gauges of what their stomachs are hungry for. (IMO that is a learned skill, so it's not done in a puntive way).

Leftovers are eaten for lunch around here, but we strive to not have leftovers period (except for rice, since the kids love fried rice for lunch) so they are minimal.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

And this is a really fascinating show about the genetics of picky eating:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/science-picky-eaters.html


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## no5no5 (Feb 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> And the whole, "you wouldn't force an adult to eat something they didn't want" thing just seems weird to me. Adults have been going to dinner parties for centuries and I'm sure that there are regularly adults who are served things they don't like but they eat anyway - it's called good manners. My husband makes several dishes that I wouldn't pick out to make myself, but I eat them anyway. I make several things he doesn't care for, but he eats them anyway. I have never had an adult ask at my parents' house, or ask at my house since I've lived on my own, to get them something different from what I'm serving. I ask guests if there are allergies or intolerances, and ask if they have any favorites, and then plan things from there. I can't imagine a person saying, "can I have a bowl of cereal instead? I'm not in the mood for that."


I guess we have pretty different ideas of manners. Or perhaps it's the fact that I spent the last 2 months suffering from major food aversions (and morning sickness) that leads me to disagree. There are things I just could not eat, and I would not eat them, and I would expect anyone with whom I would eat to understand that and not be offended. Normally, I don't have strong food aversions, though I do have dietary restrictions that often require that I decline food served at another person's house. I've never felt that doing so was rude. Of course I wouldn't moan and groan about how icky it is, but I certainly wouldn't eat something that I didn't want to eat just to be polite. I don't normally ask for something else, but if I was unable to get something else for myself later in the day (e.g., if I was staying the night), I would bite the bullet and do it. I have done it, at my parents' house and even at the inlaws' house.

Also, as a host, I would be pretty upset to find out that I'd served a guest something he or she did not like but he or she had eaten it anyway. I'd much prefer my guests feel comfortable enough to eat what they like and not what they don't, and ask for something else if nothing fits their needs. I have had this happen (a guest with a mushroom aversion, for example) and I've never been offended. I've just worked with them to find an alternative meal.


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## Swandira (Jun 26, 2005)

I don't do any forcing or insisting related to food. I always make sure there's something on the table that's a preferred food of my pickier kid -- I have one with a sensory processing disorder who will sometimes refuse certain stuff. I don't offer anything else other than what we're all having, nor do I let them leave the table and get something different. Meals, except for breakfast, are communal here, which encourages them to try new stuff. What's served is what's served, but I would never serve only stuff they don't like or aren't comfortable with. If I put something on the table just so we can have something everyone likes, I'll put some of that thing on my own plate too, just to show that we're all eating together. Sharing food is an important social skill and an important motivator for eating.

Just having a food on their plate or even on the table is a way of interacting with it, and the more a kid interacts with a food, the sooner they'll decide to try it, unless they have a severe medical problem of some sort that's preventing them from learning about food normally.

Nealy

Mama to Thales, 12/02; Lydia, 2/06; and Odin, 12/08


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> Also, as a host, I would be pretty upset to find out that I'd served a guest something he or she did not like but he or she had eaten it anyway. I'd much prefer my guests feel comfortable enough to eat what they like and not what they don't, and ask for something else if nothing fits their needs. I have had this happen (a guest with a mushroom aversion, for example) and I've never been offended. I've just worked with them to find an alternative meal.


That's my way of hosting dinner guests too. I would never be offended if someone asked for an alternative. No matter what the reason. If it's a big fancy meal I make sure I know what everyones dietary preferences/needs are.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I would hope if a person had an aversion to a food, and were dining with me and I had asked if they had any allergies/intolerances/dislikes or preferences, they would mention that - it's not hard: "I'm actually not crazy about mushrooms" - I've said it numerous times to people about fish when I'm invited and they ask - "I keep trying, but I just don't like fish; any other meat is fine!". If they're uncomfortable saying it after being directly asked by the host, then that's on them. I've been served foods I'm not crazy about (not an aversion, but don't like), and I take a very small portion of it. That, to me, is good manners. Not liking something is different than being averse to it. I had a strawberry and pineapple aversion while pregnant the first time, I couldn't even look at it - and they are some of my favorite non-pregnant foods. I get aversions. This is not what I'm talking about.

I TOTALLY understand allergies/intolerances/sensory issues, and aversions, and am not offended by them; I ASK people when I invite them if they have any of the above...so, they have ample opportunity to mention it. What I'm talking about is NOT this. What I'm talking about is someone being served something they're not particularly in the mood for or isn't a "favorite" food, and asking for something different...which is what I'm getting at with my kids, too - true dislikes or aversions, I won't force them to eat. But "I'm not in the mood for that" or even "that's not my favorite" isn't an option for anyone in our house, kids or adults.


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## no5no5 (Feb 4, 2008)

The thing is, when I am pregnant, I often adore a food for a few days and then can't stand the sight of it for a few months. In other words, I can't always predict what I'll like and what I'll hate. And I think most of the time it's the same for kids. A child may even specifically ask for a certain food and then, when given that food, realize that it doesn't taste how they'd expected--and that, instead of being delicious, it tastes disgusting. I don't think that child is being inappropriate or greedy or rude. They just don't always have good insight into what they like. And I don't think they should be punished for having changing tastes or having poor insight. Now, I also don't think that I should be punished by having to cater to a child's every whim, which is why we have a variety of healthy alternatives for DD to choose for herself.

Now, if I had a child who refused to ever eat anything other than his or her favorite, that might be different. I guess if that were the case, I would wonder if there was some sort of genuine problem (medical or psychological). At any rate, I don't think that is the norm or what most people are dealing with.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I gotta say I'd consider a pregnant woman in the same category as a 'special need' as far as food goes and would give a pregnant woman a total pass on a day by day food aversion. But really, for a neurotypical, no medical or sensory issues, past a preschooler age person, the whole, "I like a food today but I won't tomorrow" can get a little old. Aversions are one thing - something not being what you thought it was going to be is another. I guess I just feel like it's food. It's good for you, it's not totally grossing you out and making you gag, just eat it even if it's not what you really wanted. I do it all the time without feeling resentful or upset about it. I get plenty of opportunities to eat plenty of foods I love, so I don't sweat it when ones I'm not thrilled with crop up.

It's probably just going to have to be an agree to disagree thing. I'm really a kind person in real life, I feel like I'm coming across as a hardass jerk in this thread. I'm not, I promise. I've happily made special foods for guests at my house based on their stated preferences and dislikes. I've stated my own personal aversions to hosts when asked. But on the every day, "oh, you made that? I wasn't really in the mood...." or, "huh, I'm not crazy about that" dishes, I'll contentedly eat it anyway instead of making something else.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

There are no meal alternatives. There is one dinner, with a few sides, and they can eat it or not eat it, their choice. They may not go foraging for something else. There is always something that they can eat, like rice, bread, salad or raw veggies on the table, and there is always fruit after the main meal. My kids are great eaters and we don't have power struggles. They are now 13 and 10, but I've gotten many comments from friends' parents about how nice they are to deal with at the table.

I just had to deal with a niece over the holidays. Her parents let her have PB&J or yogurt when she turns her nose up at just about every meal. She's a major league whiner about food, and I think they've created that monster. She wanted to stay at my house one evening, but I let it be known up front to her and her parents that my food rules wouldn't change for her. Oddly, she managed just fine without the alternative meal when she knew that the issue was non-negotiable.

SIL asks me all the time why my kids are so pleasant at mealtimes. Then she plugs her ears and hums loudly when I tell her.


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## no5no5 (Feb 4, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> I gotta say I'd consider a pregnant woman in the same category as a 'special need' as far as food goes and would give a pregnant woman a total pass on a day by day food aversion. But really, for a neurotypical, no medical or sensory issues, past a preschooler age person, the whole, "I like a food today but I won't tomorrow" can get a little old.


And I guess I was thinking of preschool-aged (or perhaps K-aged) kids. I thought that's what the thread was about. I have absolutely nothing to contribute wrt older kids, as I've not yet parented one.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

I no longer give meal alternatives. I used to, but my DS became used to demanding exactly what he wanted when he wanted it and never touched vegetables. It was always soup or PBnJ or hot dogs etc. The closest he got to healthy was sugared yogurt.

So I no longer buy the foods that are the worst offenders, limit the sugared yogurts and I started telling him that he could eat what was served or wait until snack time/next meal. I also never make him sit at the table and eat if he says he isn't hungry.

Since doing this, he now eats salads which is a *major* breakthrough. I found a sweet dressing he enjoys and will eat raw veggies. He eats roasted veggies and has even commented that he likes some veggies. Broccoli, roasted brussels sprouts, corn, carrots.

I think some kids might need to be catered to, but in other kids, it only encourages unhealthy eating patterns.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

In our home there was never any food or meal requirement. You ate when you were hungry, and if the meal that had been made wasn't your deal there was likely something in the kitchen that suited better.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I have 2 LO the oldest is 8.. The youngest is 9 months obviously she is not food restricted like my older for her I simpily no longer make alternitives. Shes always been a severly picky eatter. There is some medical history to why I acknowlege it Ihave some understanding and even grace and sympthy but I no longer kill myself trying to keep her "happy" the way she assumes things should be. I make meals that are aprropiate in nutrution and portion I consider prefrences and always try to incorporate something that pleases all keeping the first 2 in mind.. Still despite this at least 10 meals or so a week I get whine whine whine..

I dont force food I dont force tastes cause its pointless I do have rules on manners and thankfully now that shes is older she is a LOT better on atleast attempting certain things, but its encouraged not required...

Dinner (or any sit down) meal rules are basically.

1) we sit poliety we dont go Eww point and say this is gross or anything else

2) you will be given a little bit of everything unless I'm SURE its something you don't care for where as it will be offered verbally but not forced upon your plate.. If its a food I KNOW you love a little extra might be given if appropiate (see mamas not all mean)

3) If you finish an appropiate amount of whats on your first plate you may ask for seconds of any portion if however you choose to ingnore the majority then you must wait or ask others before serving more of something.. example tonight we had fish (just enough for each to have 1 serving) wild rice spinach and rolls. DD did fine with the fish kinda pushed the rice around ingnored the spinach and ate her roll before everyone even got served.. She wanted another I told her she needed to wait that she still HAD the rice (which she normally loves) and spinach and it was her choice not to eat it... In the end she did get another roll but shes did have to wait. I do this to prevent her from jsut eatting up all of one thing and preventing anyone else from having any.

I also do not allow her to jsut get up and get a bunch of food on her own its rude and wastefull BUT she is also not locked out of the kitchen we keep fruot out on the table at all times and that is free range shes is capable of opening things if she REALLY wants. She jsut knows better than to tell me I NEED to make her something else or shes going to starve or to refuse a meal then raid a cookie jar.

Her eatting has gotten a LOT better since we started this a huge part is simpily age another is consistancy shes understands what to expect.

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I will say though

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> There are no meal alternatives. There is one dinner, with a few sides, and they can eat it or not eat it, their choice. They may not go foraging for something else. There is always something that they can eat, like rice, bread, salad or raw veggies on the table, and there is always fruit after the main meal. My kids are great eaters and we don't have power struggles. They are now 13 and 10, but I've gotten many comments from friends' parents about how nice they are to deal with at the table.
> 
> ...


I will say though. we have ALWAYS had the no meal alternitve when my DD was maybe 2 I'd sometimes make sure shes got in something before bed if shes didn't eat at a meal but we never made seperate meals and what shes got was say an apple or a bannana which my kid can today have free range of at any time..

Yet we still get whinning its better yes but even 8 years latter it is there..its imporved 10 fold with age but honestly its not made her a great eatter....

Her sister is going to be the clear opposite shes is my happy eatter there is very little in which I offer shes refuses to at least try and enjoys most anything... Doesn't care for things with heavy garlic and really dislikes peaches as I found out today LOL but thats about it. So I think a LOT of it is just personality.

Deanna


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

The other thing I thought about this morning is that we don't force cleaning plates, people are welcome to stop eating or not eat whatever they want to or don't want to....but there is no alternative until the next snack or meal. And the serving sizes we give htem are very small, so as to not overwhelm them - everyone is welcome to refills when they're done. So it's not like my kids are being forced to sit at the table and clean a mountain of food that makes them gag every night or go without anything. They always have *something* available in the meal that they like/will eat (because that's how we plan our meals), and they don't have to clean everything we serve them...theyr'e just not allowed to decide that's not what they're in the mood for and fix something else....but then again, neither are DH or I, we eat whatever the person cooking made. This way of doing things has significantly broadened their food horizons such that my son asks to pack sushi to school for lunch (and getting all sorts of weird looks from friends, but he doesn't care), and my daughter's new favorite vegetable is roasted zucchini.....if you would have known these kids a year ago, this is huge. When we started this a little over a year ago, my kids were in fact choosing alternate meals every night. And DH and I were just burnt out on it. It felt rude and entitled, so we made some gentle but firm boundaries and it has improved our dinnertime greatly...we were actually starting to dread dinnertimes, and now they are enjoyable again. And the kids are happily (as in, definitely enjoying and taking seconds) foods they would have cringed at a year ago.


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## sublimeliving (Dec 21, 2010)

I never force feed my children (one or two more bites). Also, my youngest is seven years old and has many allergies to food. I noticed that she didn't want to eat those foods (before we found out she was allergic). I can't imagine if I'd have forced it upon her. One thing that we do is have the kids help prepare the meal and help with the menu.

Things to never say to your child at a meal

http://www.creatinghealthyeaters.com/articles.html

*"One more bite.* I hear this phrase a lot. A parent requires that a child take one more bite of something before they can leave the table. Is this requirement made to insure enough calories or nutrients that the child needs? That may be the intent, but the reality is that the amount of calories and nutrients in that one last bite will not make or break a child's health. So what this decree of one more bite says to the child is: I (the parent) know how much you need to eat, not you, but I (the parent) am in charge here and you don't leave until I say so, or perhaps, I (the parent) have the power here, so eat if I tell you to. All of these messages leave a child with mixed messages about food and an opening for a power struggle with a parent."

"*You need to eat your vegetables before you can have more bread. *Many parents believe that certain foods need to be eaten at each meal. Some of us are concerned that if we let our children fill up on one food, they won't eat the other foods offered. There is some truth to this, but if all of the foods offered are healthy foods, why do we care which foods they eat more of? Even if they choose to fill up on bread, don't worry. They will eat vegetables or fruits another time. You can also discourage over eating of a fun food by only put enough of the fun food on the table for everyone to have a serving. When the bread is gone, it is gone. If your child says that they are hungry and they want more bread, calmly point out that the bread is gone but there is still chicken and carrots. If they are hungry they will eat, they may even try a new food!"

"Are you a food micro-manager?"

"We all want our children to eat healthy foods and there are many ways to allow this to happen. Our first job is to offer healthy foods often. A hungry child will eat, so the more often healthy foods are offered, the more of them will be eaten. But children are sometimes fearful of food, not hungry, or more interested in trying to get you what they want instead of eating. All of these actions can lead to the same disastrous result: a power struggle of over who gets their way.

We can avoid this struggle by not over managing how much and what our child eats. Remember, you offer what you would like your child to eat. Then the rest is up to them. They can eat and nourish their body or choose not to eat with the consequence of hunger coming very soon. The beauty of this is that you were not the "bad guy" in this scenario. Hunger caused the discomfort, the result of them choosing not to eat.

But some parents can not let go of this managerial stance and let hunger and fullness do it's job without them. They micro-manage a child's eating. These are the parents that you see deciding for the child what food should be eaten first. Supposedly this ensures that nutritious foods will be eaten first when the child is most hungry. Perhaps, but a child given a variety of food over time will in fact choose foods that meet their nutritional needs. Telling a child what they need to eat first undermines their need for some independence and their reliance and confidence in their own internal cues that guide them naturally.

I often hear "you need to take one more bite", as if that last bite guarantees the exact amount of calories or nutrients necessary at that moment in time. Or a parent who requires that a child finish a certain amount of a food. A child instinctively knows how much food they need, the more we trust them the more they will make good decisions.

Interestingly, there have been several studies that show that the more we manage our children's eating decisions, the more likely they are to become over weight and have emotional problems with foods. The study observed parents eat a meal with their child. Immediately after the meal the children were put in a room without parents. There were activities in the room as well as a variety of snacks. It was observed that the children whose parents had over managed their child's lunch where more likely to eat again, right after lunch. These children where also the ones who where already over weight."

Taken from http://www.creatinghealthyeaters.com/articles.html

I hope that article helps. : )


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

Eat what's there or you're just out of luck. When my kids can buy and prepare their own foods, then they can have alternate meals. Until then, it is what it is.

I do usually plan meals around what it is I know they like and will eat. But I refuse to make spaghetti more than once every couple of weeks and I won't make lasagna frequently(DH hates it). If the kids got to plan what they ate, it would not end up being a well-rounded diet at all.

They do have autonomy to choose snacks and breakfast most of the time. But dinner is my domain. I do make a meal plan each week and it's posted on the fridge so they know what's coming. If they say, "But I don't want ____," well, oh well!


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Ditto to a PP's recommendation for Ellyn Satter. We used to get into major food battles with my picky eater DS, and we tried everything- bribing with desserts, forcing, a reward chart. Now we follow Ellyn's plan, which is basically....

-Follow a division of responsibility for eating. Parents decide what will be served and when. Kids decide whether to eat each item served, and how much.

-No cajoling, bribing, no pressure of any kind on the kid to eat any item.

-Serve healthy meals and snacks at regular times, and make sure to include at least one thing you know the kid likes (like bread).

-No alternatives if the kid doesn't want to eat what's served.

-No eating between meals. If he doesn't care for what's served at lunch and is hungry an hour later, he has to wait til snack to eat more. But with snacks coming at regular times 2x/day, he doesn't have to wait long. This part is crucial because it ensures they come to the table hungry and ready to eat the healthy stuff you've made. DS used to fill up on cereal and crackers between meals and wouldn't eat at mealtimes.

That's pretty much it! So to give an example, this is how dinner worked at our house last night. I served a Moroccan vegetable stew (







), chicken, brown rice, and bread. DS didn't want to try the stew, and doesn't care for brown rice (sigh), so he had chicken and bread. DD had some of everything. We all ate together, made conversation, and didn't focus at all on who was eating what- we didn't comment on how DD ate the stew when DS didn't, though it was tempting. Not the most balanced meal for DS, but he will make up for it at another meal. And he woke up really hungry this morning because he ate so little, and had a lot of eggs and toast this morning.

I love it. I think it will really help him develop into an enthusiastic eater, and it keeps me from going insane at mealtime. At our lowest with this stuff, I remember having to leave the table and go to my room to cry and jump up and down, I was so frustrated. So happy to have a better plan now!


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## tabrizia (Oct 24, 2007)

Generally we don't offer an alternative at dinner, but both mine are young. When they are older I don't have an issue with them getting themselves a yogurt or peanut butter sandwich if they don't like dinner. We always offer a before bed snack though so if DS doesn't eat much dinner he does have something he has eaten that evening. Normally it is something like a couple of slices of cheese, to give him some protein to help him go to sleep.


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## eunytuny (Jan 19, 2007)

My son is 4 and like all kids, he goes through phases. My rule of thumb is not to take things day by day. I take it week by week. If he had a good enough variety of food over the last week, I'll let him slide on a meal. I dont often offer alternatives. If he doesnt want dinner, that's fine, but if he gets hungry, I will reheat. About a month ago, he told me he wants to be a chef. Now, if he doesnt want to try something, I'll tell him that a chef always tastes new things and he likes that idea. I require one taste of anything new. After that, he can reject it.


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## full of boys (Jan 4, 2011)

With our boys they are opposites. One will eat salad and veggies over meat and bread any day. The other one will frown (literally) with every bite of "healthy" food.

Their ages are 3 (salad eater) and 2.5 (meat eater). We foster/adopt, explaining the closeness in age.

Given that we need to keep them eating balanced meals and not just carbs then we do monitor the intake of their foods. I cook most all our foods and keep them as rounded as possible and within the child realm of good.

I make a meal and the children are given their plates. If child no 1 eats his salad and vegetables first we congratulate him and ask him to have some bites of his meat (we don't want to push it if he really does not like to eat meat). He doesn't have to eat it all either just a few bites. If he likes it he can finish it. If he doesn't he doesn't have to.

Child 2 is a bit more stubborn. He will want to eat all his bread or meat but never anything else. So with him we make him eat his healthy foods first (even if just a few bites of each) and then if he has done so he may have the things he desires. IF he is being stubborn about it and making awful faces he can get down from the table and go sit in his room until dinner is over. His plate is then saved until next meal time. He will be presented with the foods again and asked to eat a few bites of the foods. Eventually he will eat the foods presented to him. We explain to him that you do not have a choice in what you are served but you do have a choice of how much you eat. You will not turn up your nose at anything that is not grilled cheese or pb&j so you will eat what is given to you or you will opt to not eat for that meal.

I do keep a mental note of things that they do and do not like and I try not to repeat offensive foods within reason.

He is learning that foods re-heated are NOT fun.


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## redpajama (Jan 22, 2007)

What The4OfUs and nono5 said resonates with me, and some combination of the two best reflects my feelings about food and kids.

In general, if I prepare a meal (which is how dinner happens and how lunch occasionally happens), it is what is served. To everyone. For lunch, I'm more likely to ask what they want--if one wants a turkey sandwich, and another wants a salad, I'll make them each what they want. But if I happen to make a pot of soup or pasta or something for lunch (as I'm more inclined to do on the weekends when my husband is home) then I expect everyone to eat it.

That said, I don't like forcing kids to eat, and I don't. If they don't want to eat what is being served, I don't mind them eating raw veggies. It almost never comes to that, though. One of my children doesn't care for tomatoes, but has agreed to try them every time I serve something with them and then pick around them. Another doesn't like onions (well, she doesn't *think* she likes onions--I think what she really doesn't like is *raw* onions, but whatever), and so she picks around those when necessary.

We don't have a lot of food battles, and I'm not sure if that's because we've always exposed the kids to a lot of different foods and have never offered alternatives, or if it's because...we're lucky. =)

If I am making something particularly spicy (which my husband and I enjoy, but my kids do not) I typically offer them a way to offset it--more rice in proportion to their spicy Indian food, for example, or a little milk/cheese to add to a spicy corn chowder I make. Or no jalepenos on their half of the pizza. Things like that. If there wasn't a way to do that, I might offer an alternative.


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

My girls are 15,13 and 5 yrs, I do allow them to choose something else if they don't like what I've made.

the teens are old enough to cook/grab something else.

I don't "force" them to just try a bite,clean their plate,use food as a reward or punishment,etc.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I just make enough of a selection for each meal. It's never just one thing on the plate, so they can eat more of what they like, and less or none of what they don't like.

I'm not one to offer only what they LOVE. They can like it less or more and still eat some of it. If they HATE it, or even dislike it, that's fine... don't eat that. But, I'm not making something else instead.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geekgolightly*
> 
> I no longer give meal alternatives. I used to, but my DS became used to demanding exactly what he wanted when he wanted it and never touched vegetables. It was always soup or PBnJ or hot dogs etc. The closest he got to healthy was sugared yogurt.
> 
> ...


I think I agree with you, I have 2 kids, my eldest is almost 19 and was never a picky kid. I have a 5 yo and while I have tried to avoid power struggles over food I have reached the point where I think allowing her to have a choice has created unhealthy eating habits. Her entrees of choice are meat, Annie's Shells and Cheese and scrambled eggs...that is it. Getting vegetables into her if they are not disguised takes negotiations, etc. Yet at school (she is in kindy) on the days she eats lunch at school she eats what is served yet offer the same thing at home (grilled cheese is a perfect example) and its a sudden and emphatic no.

For the past year I was willing to offer yogurt, cheese, fruit if she didn't like the dinner but that is turned into every night if she doesn't like dinner she wants one of those alternatives. So we are slowly moving away from offering alternatives at meal time. Even having her help me in the kitchen often does not result in her wanting to eat the food she helps cook. I think some kids are truly picky with no underlying reason.


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## mizliz72 (Sep 15, 2010)

No alternatives here. I don't mind if someone else does it with their kids, I just choose not to do it with mine. When SD was younger and lived with SO and his parents, she only ate mac and cheese, chicken nuggets, pasta, pizza, Chinese take-out, ramen noodles. When she was 3 1/2 the three of us moved in together and we began eating the same meal as a family every night. Often we argued over food and her not wanting certain things we made. I deal with SD the same way my mom dealt with me (and I was such a picky eater!): we really want her to eat what's in front of her. If she doesn't, fine, but she doesn't get any "snack" or desert, and if she's hungry later she can finish her meal. We will however say "Eat half of what's there" or "At least eat A and B and leave C" while most times my mom didn't give an inch. We also often don't give her the sauce something is cooked in if she doesn't like it, and give her ketchup instead. She's a LOT better about it now, as she's gotten a bit older and I'm sure her palette has developed more - she LOVES broccoli as long as I steam it and serve it with butter and lemon juice the way my mom did (and I LOVED it growing up) when a year ago I'd only be able to get her to eat one bite, and that might take all night. What makes this a sensitive topic for me is that SO's grandmother totally butted in and actually took me aside one day after we'd discussed "making" SD eat things she didn't want to, and tried tell me that I shouldn't do that and should even offer her a bowl of cereal or something if she didn't want what I made. I was pissed and insulted and felt that she should butt out and keep her thoughts to herself because SO is the only person who has the right to question how I help him raise his child. No kid died from going a little hungry if they refused to eat what was put in front of them. SD rarely puts up a fight anymore, and when she does turn up her nose, she either eats it anyway or we might bargain with her and get her to eat some or most of it. I also tell her to eat what she likes least first to get it over with and save the yummy stuff for last, and use milk to wash down the yucky stuff; that's what I used to do and that's what I still do!


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgianforti*
> 
> With my girls, they eat what I make but I don't make them eat every crumb on the plate. If they don't want to eat it, they don't get any snacks and I often just tell them it will be dinner if they don't eat it now.


So you just put their lunch in the refrigerator if they don't eat it, and then 6 hours later you pull it out and serve it to them for dinner? That doesn't sound kind...

If my kid didn't eat something substantial (protein) every few hours she would melt down into a blob of screaming goo, so I don't think I ever considered not helping her find something she liked for a meal. When she was 6 she had an extremely limited culinary repertoire but it expanded again. I remember reading something at the time about how children between about 4 and 6 were very vulnerable to food poisoning, biologically speaking, because they were usually weaned but their immune systems were not mature. Therefore, it was adaptive for them to stick to a few trusted foods, to reduce their chances of getting sick. This may or may not actually be true, but it made me feel better at the time.









Today she eats lots of stuff, by the way... pretty much anything, really, and lots of veggies.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgianforti*
> 
> With my girls, they eat what I make but I don't make them eat every crumb on the plate. If they don't want to eat it, they don't get any snacks and I often just tell them it will be dinner if they don't eat it now.


 Does breakfast becomes lunch and if they don't eat it then does it becomes dinner? What about dinner? Does it become breakfast the next day? Where do you draw the line?


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## maisiedotes (Jan 2, 2005)

I love the idea of unlimited fruit for dessert. I need to try that- DH has it in his head that dessert has to be cookies or ice cream.







DS (1) will eat anything as long as it is pureed, but DD is 3 and is quite difficult. She, as a PP said, will decide one day she doesn't like potatoes, and another day she doesn't like broccoli. We usually ask her to at least have a few bites of each thing on her plate, or to just try something if she has never had it before, and if she doesn't want that, DH tells her no snack. I am not a fan of that because I always was forced to eat everything on my plate- I hated HATED meat, I would gag on it, spit it out, drop it on the floor, stuff my mouth with it and run into the bathroom and spit it out... I don't want to do that to her.

So I will offer her oatmeal, yogurt with granola, fruit or cereal. Sometimes she can have a peanut butter and jelly- but I offer her one option only if she won't eat dinner. Depends on what we have in the house. At least it is something healthy so I know she is not going to bed hungry...

I am enjoying this thread and getting great ideas. I came to the board to post this exact question.


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *A&A*
> 
> I thank my lucky stars that I have bountiful food supplies in my house to share with my children, and therefore I'm always happy to give them an alternative. I do insist that they eat some sort of protein if they're not eating dinner--so cheese, yogurt, soup, whatever.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I'm feeling that way about this, too. And I'm one of the "inflexible" mamas, too, and this still doesn't sit right with me. For one, I've had food safety training, and most experts will recommend against warming-over a dish multiple times. Secondly, I wouldn't ask a child to eat something that I find disgusting, and I find certain dishes that have been warmed-over to be disgusting. Thirdly, I don't think we achieve anything by making food into a battleground. I think it's too harsh. I don't offer alternatives, or beg, or bribe, or bargain, to get my kids to eat. I just put good healthy food on the table at regular times, and put my attention on teaching reasonable table manners and social behavior at the table-- what they eat, from the choices offered, and how much, is up to their individual appetites.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I always make sure there's at least one thing DD likes, and I'm fortunate that there are many foods that she does like. Then is she tries whatever unusual food I've cooked it's a bonus.

One thing that helps us is that we eat later--dinner is usually around 6:45-7pm when my DH gets home. She goes to bed at 8, so there's not really time for her to "be hungry" afterward. I also usually give her a snack at 5pm when she's doing her homework, so if dinner's not a hit, I know she ate something just a bit ago. She is 5 years old and slender--her stomach is just not that big. She's pretty good about eating when she's hungry and turning down anything (even ice cream) if she's not hungry so I really trust her to know her body and what she needs at this point.

That said, she's a pretty intense little girl and I definitely see a link to food and mood with her. So I do press her a bit to eat protein and have a full belly so she doesn't get cranky.


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## Tumble Bumbles (Oct 15, 2009)

I happily provide alternatives because I treat my daughter how I would want to be treated. I'm fortunate that my husband will eat virtually anything I prepare, but I don't take it personally if people communicate they don't care for ____ or they don't eat ___. I don't make dinner guests "take one bite" of everything or deny them desserts if they don't eat my vegetables. If I am serving dinner for anyone else in the world, I ask them what they like, what they prefer, what they don't care for, if they do/don't like spicy food, etc....I extend the same consideration to my children, who I love far more than any dinner guest (no offense dinner guests lol). I don't see it as much different than providing an alternative for a child with an allergy. A physical inability to eat something is no different in our opinion than a psychological/sensory/aversion etc to eating it. The difference is, people think children with the latter are "bratty" or "spoiled" or whatever, when in most cases it's simply not true.

It takes NO more time for me while I'm in the kitchen anyway to get her some yogurt/pb&j/cheese and fruit or whatever if I know she doesn't like what I am making. Many of my dishes are casseroles and such with lots of ingredients and intense flavors and for a 5yo with sensory issues and a fairly bland palate, it's just too much for me to expect her to eat the way we eat at this point. Yes, I did everything "right" - her first foods were avocado/mashed sweet potatoes .. I even recall black beans as being a favorite finger food -- but slowly her palate became more limited and it is what it is. I refuse to make food a battle/punishment/reward/bribe or give it any negative power over our lives. Mealtimes are for connecting as a family, not fighting over one-more-bites or refusing desserts (which are rare anyway) or whatever.

That having been said, I won't whip up an entirely separate meal, though I will reserve some plain pasta before adding other ingredients or whatever (as that takes no time or effort). The other things she can mostly get herself, and are generally healthy although not as varied as I would like. Today she ate 2 apples and some organic yogurt for dinner. Again, not ideal but I'd rather her eat that than what some families consider "meals". Again, it takes virtually no more time or effort for me to do this, so to deny her that would be for nothing other than a battle of wills or to display some "power" over her and her body.

We do encourage her to try new things, without pressure or coercion and I've noticed her willingness lately to at least try it, even if she decides she doesn't like it.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

I try to make sure there is something everyone likes at every meal. If its not on the table and its not a vegetable/fruit then its not going to be ate at that meal. My family doesn't have the money for my girls to decide at random moments they won't eat what I prepared and want me to prepare something totally different for them. Also, I know if I let my oldest have the alternative of a PB&J or yogurt then that's all she would eat. To me that isn't healthy. I want to guide the girls to eating a healthy diet, which includes fruits and vegetables. My parents never did that for my brothers and I (we ate veggies maybe once a day, canned, heated in the microwave) and my brothers refuse to eat anything that's fresh other than apples and bananas.

I don't make them eat anything, they are given the option of not eating what they don't want to, however I'm not making them a special meal. The only time it differs is if there is a medical reason why. If they aren't feeling well, hurt, taking a med that makes them sick to their stomach etc just getting them to eat ANYTHING is hard so they get whatever it is that I can get them to eat within reason. But when they pick something I'm not going to make a second meal because they decided they didn't want the first. My oldest is bad about this when she isn't feeling well, she will change her mind about what shes wants 10-20 times if you let her and I really don't have the resources/time to make 10-20 different meals at each meal time.

I also have times where the kitchen is closed with the exception of special occasions. My daughters started getting into the habit of waking up at 2-3 am and wanting me to get up and make a meal for them. The first few days I did because i figured they were growing. After 3-4 days I stopped because I just couldn't do it anymore. Now both girls know that the kitchen closes at 9pm and opens back up at 6am, if they want anything between those times they are welcome to help themselves to the fresh fruit on the counter and get themselves a drink. Might sound mean but I am already sleep deprived, getting up and making food in the middle of the night isn't going to happen. I need to sleep sometime.


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## K1329 (Apr 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SubliminalDarkness*
> 
> Eat what's there or you're just out of luck. When my kids can buy and prepare their own foods, then they can have alternate meals. Until then, it is what it is.
> 
> ...


Dd may voice discontent with the meal - we just had chicken last night, but, she is not a TRUE picky eater. She loves all, literally all foods. But, ds is another story. He will go hungry, doesn't like pies, cakes, sweets, most meats, most veggies - you get the idea. If I didn't offer him an alternative - he would just choose to go bed hungry. His alternatives are peanut butter sandwich (doesn't like jelly) or cereal. Luckily, he loves fruits and vegetable juices, and some protein sources, or, I would be worried.

Just wanted to point out the obvious, lol. That there are varying degrees of pickiness and what works for some children will not work for others.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *full of boys*
> 
> Child 2 is a bit more stubborn. He will want to eat all his bread or meat but never anything else. So with him we make him eat his healthy foods first (even if just a few bites of each) and then if he has done so he may have the things he desires. IF he is being stubborn about it and making awful faces he can get down from the table and go sit in his room until dinner is over. His plate is then saved until next meal time. He will be presented with the foods again and asked to eat a few bites of the foods. Eventually he will eat the foods presented to him. We explain to him that you do not have a choice in what you are served but you do have a choice of how much you eat. You will not turn up your nose at anything that is not grilled cheese or pb&j so you will eat what is given to you or you will opt to not eat for that meal.
> 
> ...


That's a shame...we love leftovers at our house. However most of the people I know who were re-served meals until they ate them hate leftovers and buy their lunches, etc.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *redpajama*
> 
> We don't have a lot of food battles, and I'm not sure if that's because we've always exposed the kids to a lot of different foods and have never offered alternatives, or if it's because...we're lucky. =)


We do allow (boring) alternatives, but my son doesn't avail himself of them very much...and I think a good part of that is luck, and some is keeping the pressure down (and the alternatives healthy and boring). A different child might need a different approach. He's kind of veggie-oriented anyway.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the love!


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


> > We do allow (boring) alternatives, but my son doesn't avail himself of them very much...and I think a good part of that is luck, and some is keeping the pressure down (and the alternatives healthy and boring). A different child might need a different approach. He's kind of veggie-oriented anyway.


What kind of boring alternatives do you offer? thanks!


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

My son has autism and sensory issues so food is a fun one around here







He's been in feeding therapy on and off for years (is currently in it again after taking a break due to behavior issues). As part of the feeding therapy we never ever force him to eat anything. Food is fun, not a chore







There is a whole step by step process we do with ds and food. The first step being "allow the food to be in the same room". The last step is chewing a swallowing the food. Needless to say, there are dozens of steps in between! DS is at the point where he can handle most foods in the same room as he is. There are still a ton of foods he cannot stand to look at or smell. After the food is in the room we put it on the table on the side opposite ds. Slowly, over time (days, weeks, months- not all in the same meal!) we move the food closer to ds's plate. Eventually we put a small portion on his plate. When he's handling that well we ask him to touch it. Then there's a whole series of touching, smelling, licking, biting, spitting out, etc that we go through.

So, for the original question- ds always has a separate meal than we do. Since the number of foods ds eats is so small, everything is easy to prepare. Actually, most foods are simply eaten the way they are bought- apples are sliced, bananas are whole, celery is cut into 2-3 inch pieces, baby carrots (raw- never cooked), yogurt, peanut butter on a spoon, cheese sliced a certain way, mandarin oranges out of the can, applesauce, etc. Foods cannot be mixed in any way (the only exceptions to this is he will dip potatoes- fries, etc- into ketchup and he will eat a certain restaurants breadsticks dipped in their sauce. Other than that- no foods ever touch). While he will eat bread and he will eat peanut butter- he will not eat a peanut butter sandwich. We have finally gotten him to use a regular plate at some meals instead of a plate with the separate areas for different foods at every meal. While we always offer ds whatever we are eating, and sometimes one of those foods even gets put on his plate, he always has different food than dh and I have. We have too many other battles to fight. Food is not one of them


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Steph has just described the thoughtful, compassionate, eminently appropriate way that she deals with food aversion issues in a child with a pervasive developmental disorder.

When I see a non-disabled child of six or seven being treated in the same way, it makes my skin crawl. Your foods are touching? Really? Well, let's take the focus off that minor issue and put it on the MAJOR issue of you whining and complaining at Aunt Sally's table! Eat it, don't eat it, I don't care, but in a social context, the only words I want to hear out of a school-aged neurotypical child's mouth WRT her plate of food are "thank you."

In the privacy of the home, I'm willing to entertain more food commentary because I can use the information to alter my recipes or menu selections in future. But the choice is still eat it or don't eat it. Demanding alternative entrees from the chef is hideous behavior at any age. Any person who is mentally mature enough to know that temper tantrums in the middle of the grocery store are a no-no is old enough to comprehend that family meals should not be an endless procession of nothing but their favorite foods, because they are not the center of the universe.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

We make 1 meal for dinner, usually with more than one component to it.

If you dont want it, take one small "no thank you" bite, and you can choose to sit at the table and enjoy the conversation, or ask to be excused and do something on your own (no 'back and forth' to the table allowed, you are either joining us, or not).

If he is hungry later, he can have the rest of his dinner, any veggie, or any fruit.

He helps cook most of the time, and most of the time he will eat what is in front of him. He rarely doesnt like something (so far, only really spicy things). He doesnt eat much to begin with, but he tries everything which is fine with me.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> Steph has just described the thoughtful, compassionate, eminently appropriate way that she deals with food aversion issues in a child with a pervasive developmental disorder.
> 
> ...


I've always felt the same way.









I practice with DD1-- she is my big one for this. We talk, often, about how she has two things she can say upon arriving at the table: "Thank you," or "No thank you." Even the smallest children can learn to not whine and complain at meals, if they're patiently redirected. And while my DD1 does have these picky-picky issues, like preferring the contents of her sandwich on the side, rather than in the bread, she's learned to say things like, "May I have the cheese on the side, please?" or "Can I have the potatoes with no sauce, please?" Or even, "may I serve myself, so that I can keep things separately?" I've talked to her extensively about how yeah, sure, everybody has preferences and little things they're picky about-- let's face it, we all do-- but that it's rude to expect other people to cater to those preferences- either see to it yourself, politely and without drawing an enormous amount of attention to yourself-- or let it go.

We even practice more appropriate ways to offer commentary on the meal-- we practice saying things like, "I think I liked this better when we had it with the broccoli," or "How about we try this with chicken next time, instead of beans?" Those are much easier on the ears, and much more respectful to the cook, than "EWWW, yucky, I don't WANT chicken."

I don't even ask for "just one bite." What they eat, from the meal I've served, and how much, is purely their own business. I don't get involved in discussion about that. (Other than with DD2's special health issues, as I've described.) But picky-picky rudeness and whining and complaining are absolutely unacceptable at our table.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


> When I see a non-disabled child of six or seven being treated in the same way, it makes my skin crawl. Your foods are touching? Really? Well, let's take the focus off that minor issue and put it on the MAJOR issue of you whining and complaining at Aunt Sally's table! Eat it, don't eat it, I don't care, but in a social context, the only words I want to hear out of a school-aged neurotypical child's mouth WRT her plate of food are "thank you."


It's interesting to me. I think that's respectful to everyone but the eater. I think I fall more into what Llyra mentioned her kids saying. Things like: "Cheese on the side, please" or "I'd prefer no sauce on my noodles".

I think that the right to refuse something to eat or to request to eat it differently (as much as is doable) is important. I am totally on board with teaching kids how to politely do that though.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HappyMommy2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


It's varied over the years but it's rarely varied by month, if that makes sense? The most common one is the nut butter sandwich.

He knows he mostly has to substitute group for group, like main dish for main dish, beets for some other veggie, etc.

We pretty much always have carrot sticks and broccoli and cauliflower around washed and raw, and we often have cucumber.

Leftovers from a prior meal are usually just fine. We will heat them up but he actually eats a lot of things cold that I wouldn't, and prefers it that way. They may or may not be stuck in a WW tortilla as a wrap.

Almond or peanut butter on whole-grain bread with a side of raw carrots/broccoli/cauliflower/cucumber (assume this side with everything). No dip on the veggies. (He doesn't like it anyway, but that seems unfair.)

Cheese or yoghurt and a piece of whole-grain bread with butter (or more usually, brown rice that's leftover)

Hummus and flatbread, or whole chickpeas and flatbread, depending on what's made.

Beans on toast.

Also I should have mentioned the timing - we won't do it at the start of the meal. About midway the fastest eater will get the substitute if it's not something my son can get for himself...probably 1/3 of the time, by then he's dug in anyway.


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## Snowflake777 (Jan 6, 2011)

For us, it depends. We used to do the offer-a-boring-alternative thing, but DD nearly always chose that, which meant she'd reject the perfectly nice dinner knowing she'd get something "better" later.

Nowadays, if I've made something I know DD likes at least somewhat, then it's that or nothing. I know she likes chicken casserole just fine, so she doesn't get to reject that because she'd prefer to have a sandwich. Also, she doesn't have to eat with us if she's not hungry, but if she gets hungry later then it's still the same meal, re-heated.

I do make exceptions on the rare occasions when dinner is something she genuinely struggles to eat. I encourage her to try it, but if she really dislikes it then she can have something else instead. I'll keep offering her the same things again and again, and sometimes she warms up to them after a few tries.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Well, this just came up tonight. DD, about 30 min after dinner "I am hungry" Me "well, then you should have eaten more dinner" DD "I want something else" Me "It's after dinner now. You have to wait until breakfast. Do you have any fives?" (We were playing Go Fish. This happens occasionally with both DS and DD. They know this is going to be my response, so there is no long discussion. I guess they still try though, to see if the response will magically change?

I don't cook anything separate. But I will occasionally make slight variations for them if it is extremely easy to do. (Like tonights very spicy cabbage dish they don't like, but it takes no time for me to leave a few slices of raw cabbage out and put on their plate as is). They can chose to eat or not to eat. We generally have 3 items at the table, and I make sure that they like 1 or 2 of the 3 items.


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## Abraisme (Mar 8, 2009)

I don't offer anything else unless the meal is very spicy. My DS went without dinner 2-3 times before he learned that it was better to eat a meal he didn't like than to be hungry all night. My DS always has to eat his veggie first, then he can eat as much or as little of anything that he wants. If he doesn't finish he can't have anything else for the night.


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I'm similar. I have no problem setting up each plate according to the kids' preferences, I just will not be making them a different meal. The exception is if we're having something spicy or leftovers. Then I will allow them to chose a different dinner, but it has to be something in the fridge or simple to make (PB&J, grilled cheese) because I will not be cooking two meals regularly.

And about the other comment re: neurotypical child...
I have a "highly sensitive child" and according to the book by the same name, roughly 20% of the population fits that description. A common issue with these kids/adults is food preferences. They can be picky about tastes, textures, or mixed flavors. I have realized that my 4 yo doesn't like dishes with too many ingredients--it is like a taste assault. Overwhelming and unpleasant for her. When we make something like a stew or stir fry, I will choose a limited number of veggies for her plate and separate them into different piles. She is much more open to trying them when she can eat one thing at a time. It's the way her brain/nervous system works. Yet she is neurotypical. So that distinction is not always as clear as some people think.


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## BubbleMa (Sep 24, 2007)

At meal time, if they're not hungry or don't like it they don't have to eat, but they don't get a special meal. I usually give them very small portions unless it's something I know they love. That way if they don't like it I haven't wasted an entire plate full of food. Usually, there's at least one or two things they like and they're free to have as much of those things as they want.

I encourage them to try new foods, but never force them to eat things they don't like. Personally, I *hate* potatoes and I'd probably cry if someone tried to force me to eat them. I try to be understanding of their preferences, but I'm not going to be a short order cook either.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


> I encourage them to try new foods, but never force them to eat things they don't like. Personally, I *hate* potatoes and I'd probably cry if someone tried to force me to eat them. I try to be understanding of their preferences, but I'm not going to be a short order cook either.


Right. This. I think this is a concern for so many people... the "short order cook" worry. It was never an issue for us even while allowing food freedom for our kids. There are so many easy, instant even, options for a kid who isn't down with the dinner or just isn't hungry when it's served. We kept things like dry cereal, crackers, yogurt, bread, fruit, veggies, nut butters, and string cheese all down low so they might grab it. My son had his own tiny drawer in the fridge. Easy peasy.

It just strikes me as entirely disrespectful to require someone, big or small, to eat something they don't want to eat or to eat at a time they don't feel like eating.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> And about the other comment re: neurotypical child...I have a "highly sensitive child" and according to the book by the same name, roughly 20% of the population fits that description. A common issue with these kids/adults is food preferences. They can be picky about tastes, textures, or mixed flavors. I have realized that my 4 yo doesn't like dishes with too many ingredients--it is like a taste assault. Overwhelming and unpleasant for her. When we make something like a stew or stir fry, I will choose a limited number of veggies for her plate and separate them into different piles. She is much more open to trying them when she can eat one thing at a time. It's the way her brain/nervous system works. Yet she is neurotypical. So that distinction is not always as clear as some people think.


I have a highly sensitive child, as well. And while he is neurotypical, he does need some food considerations. Of course, I encourage him to decline food politely. I just peeled the inner membranes from each individual orange segment for him and was thrilled he ate some fruit. I do a lot of PIA food prep for him and find the concept of other people being judgmental about that to be pretty darn obnoxious.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> I have a highly sensitive child, as well. And while he is neurotypical, he does need some food considerations. Of course, I encourage him to decline food politely. I just peeled the inner membranes from each individual orange segment for him and was thrilled he ate some fruit. I do a lot of PIA food prep for him and find the concept of other people being judgmental about that to be pretty darn obnoxious.


Not to be obnoxious or judgmental, but can't he peel the membranes himself? This is, to me, a perfect example of the type of behaviour that, when indulged over a long period of time, leads to the pickiness (i.e. "I won't eat the orange... it has strings on it!!!!!!!!!!!!"). I would draw the line there and tell a 10 year old that if s/he wanted the orange perfectly clean they could do it themselves. If that's what it takes to get a child to eat fruit, perhaps a different approach is needed?


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Ah, you're assuming that refusing to eat something is a whim on the kids part and that going along with it is what causes the pickiness. You've got it backwards. The pickiness it what started the whole thing! You are biased about it from the start, just by your use of the word indulgence. that may be true for some kids, but highly sensitive kids are different, and deserve tolerance and understanding.

Like I said, many kids are _hardwired_ to be picky about tastes or textures. Their own brain is the cause. The kid just will not eat it otherwise. A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods. You work with what you've got, and you accept your kids for who they are.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods."

Well, they can. I'm not saying that one has to, or even that one should, but people did reach adulthood quite reliably in the days when an orange was a Christmas-stocking treat that one wouldn't dream of complaining about, and criticizing your mother's cooking was a punishable offense. I'd rather listen to the criticism (at home, in private) than have my kids be quietly gagging over my meals, but I also really, truly think it's better for a kid to not eat oranges for a few years than to watch his mother painstakingly strip off the membranes (and then be all happy that he's eating - that's a whole 'nuther thread). I have a four-year who doesn't care for the "white stuff" on oranges. No problem. Oranges are never, ever the only thing offered at a meal. I'm fairly certain that she'll eat oranges someday - assuming that I can keep those mandarins-in-a-cup nastiness out of my house and make sure that her palate isn't keyed into the fake, processed, sanitized version of a whole food.

It's OK not to like some foods. It's even OK not eat at a meal if nothing on the table appeals to you. I think we're all agreed about that. But I don't have time or money or patience to waste on preparing invalid fare for my healthy children, and I don't think "picky" or "highly sensitive" in developmentally normal children is a condition that is helped by doing such meal prep. Remember, what we are trying to get out of all this is an adult who can eat in a way that is socially neutral. Spending ten minutes massaging their orange is not the way to get there IMNSHO.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I don't make entirely separate meals, but I do make a lot of things that can be customized by the person eating it at the table--tacos I make spicy beans, mild beans, grated cheese, sour cream, salsa, and avocado. The kids do mild beans and DH does the spicy with extra salsa. He likes the kick. Neither kid will eat tomato, and since I didn't either as a kid, I see no reason to push it. They wolf down avocado. As long as they eat, and I don't have to plan and make two separate meals, I'm good with [email protected]

If they don't want something that's offered, they can skip it and I take preferences into account, but they still have to eat something that's on offer. Just lately they also have to come to terms with the pasta bowl not being endless, and they have to move on to their second favorite thing on their plates. I make extra, but when that's gone, it's gone. (If they ate second servings and everything else on their plates, skipping only their true dislikes, I'd make another batch of pasta; they don't go hungry!) I make cauliflower because DD and I like it, DH and DS don't, that's fine. They just skip the veggie that night, won't hurt them!

I did some things with DD like crust-less sandwiches and peeled apples that I don't do with DS. They both leave the crust though, and I don't see a reason to make a fuss about it.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Bolding mine. We are talking about kids who are *neurotypical*. What you are describing is *not* neurotypical. Neurotypical kids who do not have SIA or other issues... having the parent take every little string off of the orange when the child is 10 years of age and perfectly capable of doing it themselves... yes, I call that indulgence. My dd doesn't necessarily like the strings on the orange, but since she was about 2.5 years old, she was free to take off as much of the string as she wanted. She learned that it wasn't really worth it and after a couple of years stopped taking the strings off and got used to them... but she's neurotypical and not picky.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "A parent can't just wait for their kid to get old enough to fix all their own food the way they like it, and in the meantime only eat a handful of foods."
> 
> ...


Word.

I am neurotypical, and was a picky kid. I learned from an early age to modify foods to fit my texture and taste preferences, scraping, shoving to the side, picking off, etc. becasue the alternative was....well, not eating. Self preservation and hunger are motivators, for sure - and I have ZERO resentment towards my parents at all; it would never even occur to them to offer me an alternative for the dinner my mom made for all of us. I could leave piles of stuff on my plate after eating around them or cleaning them off or whatever that would make my mom laugh out loud in bemusement, I was so thorough in separating what I wanted from what I didn't want - and there was a realtively substantial list of things I didn't want (or didn't want mixed together). And here is further anecdata: I am having to actively teach my kids this skill because *I have been doing it for them for several years and they don't know how*. They are entirely capable at 4 and almost 7 to pick stuff apart and leave what they don't want. I had to actually explain to them how to dissect a lasagna so they didn't have to eat the ricotta. But now that I've started explaining it to them, they've started doing it on their own to other casserol-y/stew-y combination foods (which is really their only objectionable food type right now). I could scrape sauce off a chicken breast like a pro, and weed out diced onions from a meal like nobody's business. Should I feel mad at my mom for forcing me to do that? I'm actually pretty glad she didn't cater to my neurotypical neuroses (that everyone has) and just let me do my thing to make my meals acceptable. For a neurotypical kid, there's NO reason they can't learn to take stuff apart on their own to suit their tastes...and if they don't want to do that, then they can just eat whatever they find acceptable that's been served until they're ready to take apart whatever it is. I believe that all of us have agreed that there's always *something* on the table that the child likes, so nobody is being forced to eat a plateful of foods they don't like.

I think *everyone* has their "things". Neurotypical neuroses and pickiness and sensitivities, I just, I don't feel like everything needs to be catered to. People with diagnosable medical issues, YES. Absolutely with a capital A, should have accommodations. But neurotypical people with garden variety quirks and pickiness? Meh, everyone has quirks. If you would cry eating potatoes, don't eat potatoes if someone serves them to you - I don't see anyone on here saying they'd force a kid to eat an entire serving of something that would make them cry. Take a small polite serving, push it around, and then eat whatever else is on your plate and be thankful that someone cooked something for you. Then eat again at your next snack or meal. I have to be honest, and will put on my flame-proof suit here, but a lot of this conversation, when pertaining to neurotypical but quirky people sounds like speshul snowflake syndrome to me. And to be clear, I am guilty of having the syndrome myself sometimes, but I'm working on it. How does that saying go? "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> It just strikes me as entirely disrespectful to require someone, big or small, to eat something they don't want to eat or to eat at a time they don't feel like eating.


It strikes me as unusual that you wouldn't want to have people on basically the same eating routine if there are regular snacks and meals available. If you have a smaller appetite, eat less at each meal and snack so you still want to eat every few hours; if you have a larger appetite, then eat more at each sitting so you can go longer until the next snack or meal. It just seems weird to me to have people living in the same house on different eating timetables on a regular basis. If you're talking about a one-off, then sure, we all have times when something is up that we don't want to eat and the person is excused....but not as a regular thing. We all need and want to eat at regular intervals, so we've tweaked it so those intervals coincide and we have as many meals and snacks together as we can. Sharing food together at a table is an important thing to both DH and me, so it's something we're teaching the kids as well. I guess some of it might just be the personal values on meals and food in general.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...










Lest people think I spend hours a day with tweezers preparing my ds's food, he hadn't eaten oranges in a year. Sure, I could not do these things and have him never eat fruit or vegetables. But I like to keep his palate exposed to the variety of things he will eat so he can continue to expand them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


My ds is as neurotypical as the next person who thinks wool is scratchy or whatever. If he isn't neurotypical, then no one in my family is, lol. Being discriminating about tastes and textures is very much a natural way to be. It's a strong self preservation instinct that isn't as important when we get our food from grocery stores as it is when we forage for it. It's especially common in kids and becomes more minimal as they age. Ds also has a strong gag reflex which I suspect he protects with his food texture preferences. Sure he could peel the fruit himself if he was interested enough in the results. He isn't. And I feel an odd obligation to encourage him to eat a little fruit or vegetables every once in a while. Crazy, I know. And we are getting exactly where we want to be with ds developing into a well adjusted polite adult who will be invited back to meals. I don't care if others would take a more forceful approach. I just think they should manage to be mature enough and polite enough to accept people are different and not have visceral reactions to it (unless they aren't neurotypical







), especially when they aren't even responsible for the person in question.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"but I do make a lot of things that can be customized by the person eating it at the table..."

Oh, me too. I feel like I'm coming off as the Food Nazi here, but in reality, my meals are very, very friendly to picky folk. I am, in fact, surrounded by picky adult eaters, which is one of the reasons that I am so gung-ho about food manners and refuse to be made miserable at the table by a litany of what's wrong with the food and how it could be improved by increased effort on my part.

WRT the neurotypical issue - it's a continuum. My son has ADHD with heightened anxiety. In one sense, he is not neurotypical. But I don't think that lowering my expectations around food manners would help him in any way. He's much better off skipping the entree and just eating the bread or fruit or whatever he finds inoffensive than complaining about "touching foods" or "yucky vegetables on my plate" and having a positive social experience turn into a negative one as the entire family/class/restaurant turns their attention away from their conversation, and towards DS and his "special needs."

(DS is almost 7, BTW. I didn't expect this kind of social restraint and consideration of others when he was a toddler!)


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## Brendalee (Jan 12, 2011)

I think in some ways, timing plays a part. At least in my experiences.

The older boy was never a particularly picky eater, but sitting down to dinner at 5pm or later was a setup for trouble. He could have his most favoritestestest food on the planet, and would be whiny & not eat it. Sit him down at 4pm with a food he'd never seen before & he'd gobble it right up. He just wasn't hungry later in the day; he could eat a snack at 3pm and still eat dinner at 4pm, but not at 5:30pm. It took me a WHILE to figure this one out. In a similar vein, naps earlier in the day (10-11am) were far more productive than a nap at 1pm. *shrug*

This *did* create a small problem, in that the family wanted to have dinner together, but when it was just a whinefest (and not about the food in particular, but anything in general), the solution was offering the boys dinner earlier, then when Daddy came home everyone still sat at the table together. The boys could have a snack if they wanted, but OB usually just played with a car toy or two while engaging in the family conversation that happened at the dinner table.

And everyone got the same food. I wasn't cooking 2 meals! *LOL* I was also super-flexible about what was served; sometimes there was steak for breakfast & sometimes yogurt and eggs for dinner. I also found out that serving their "biggest" meal (which most people leave for dinner) at lunchtime worked better overall. So, lunch might have been a nice stew & dinner a sandwich or wrap & a little salad. They seemed to sleep better with the lighter meal later in the day.

~Brendalee


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "but I do make a lot of things that can be customized by the person eating it at the table..."
> 
> ...


Yes, I expect my ds to politely decline any foods he doesn't like. He has always had good social awareness so I'd have been taken aback by him complaining (and would have assumed he was way too hungry to keep it together) at a meal with anyone other than just me. I don't pick apart his food for him when we are at a meal. I do think having his food preferences respected makes it easier for him to be polite. He never had to get whiney or loud to be heard... I imagine he might have resorted to that if I didn't figure out his texture issues and tried to coerce him to eat things that made him feel like gagging. So not knowing other people's kids as well, I'll assume they have reason for their behavior and simply be glad it isn't my child.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

Quote:


> I am, in fact, surrounded by picky adult eaters, which is one of the reasons that I am so gung-ho about food manners and refuse to be made miserable at the table by a litany of what's wrong with the food and how it could be improved by increased effort on my part.


My boss took a bunch of us to a really nice restaurant. Some of us got a great seafood platter and a few of the other people just went on and on about how "gross" it was, or how it "smelled yucky." And these were grownups!! And neurotypical grownups at that.

So, I am sorry if it makes me a food Nazi but my son is not going to act like that at the table. Of course I have age appropriate expectations and I do consider strong dislikes. But, he is being taught that we expect good manners at the table regardless of what is served.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

My kids are 3 and 5 and they pretty much eat what I make. I'm not a short order cook. I already make 3 meals a day for 4 people plus at least one sometimes 2 snacks a day. That's more than enough! That said I am the picky eater out of all of us. Dh will eat anything and the kids are good about eating all kinds of food. I try to add more veggies into meals and such though so that we get more of them. I just try to plan meals that we all like. I don't force them to eat everything on their plates but I don't make them anything different either. They usually eat what was made. I think most of the time they are just testing me or they may not be ready to eat yet. I do try to make meals with a variety of things we all like though and just let them eat what they want of it. Like the soup I made last night. DD ate two bowls of it but not one piece of meat out of it and ended up leaving most of the potatoes too. Nothing else left in the bowl either time. DS ended up eating some of everything but leaving a few veggies left over. Over all they get a good balanced diet. I have noticed at this age some days they seem to not eat much of anything. Even if I offer something I *know* they love. I'm afraid they must be going hungry and worry all day but they just don't eat much. The next day they may eat huge helpings at every meal and maybe even seconds. Their appetites definitely seem to come and go so I think that changes how much of a dinner they eat most of the time, not whether or not they really liked it.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


> It strikes me as unusual that you wouldn't want to have people on basically the same eating routine if there are regular snacks and meals available.


Hmmm. We didn't have a schedule for meals (or much of anything else really lol). We did fall into something of a loose routine or pattern of sorts though. For years we didn't even have a dining room table. We've never required communal eating, though we often did eat together. It was never "breakfast at 7, lunch at 11, snack at 2, etc". Before we pulled the kids out to unschool we'd offer some breakfast in the morning if they wanted it. When the children were young I always made them meals, and when they got older the one standard meal of the day was dinner... usually around 6 or 7 pm. Essentially though? We ate when we were hungry to the extent that option was possible. 

Quote:


> Sharing food together at a table is an important thing to both DH and me, so it's something we're teaching the kids as well. I guess some of it might just be the personal values on meals and food in general.


That's a good point; how each family or person values food. Every family has an "eating culture" and that's got to play a large role. The eating culture of our family is what I would call half and half: very communal and very individual. Our kitchen has always been the hub of activity. It's where you'd find everyone naturally gathering to talk, where parties both planned and impromptu happened, etc. Often during food prep my kids would just appear and help, it's where my Ds and I would talk for hours in the middle of the night when he was a young teenager while eating some leftover thing. But regularly scheduled dining hasn't ever been part of our culture. The individual aspect is that we all just ate when and what we want. And where. Often my kids would choose to eat in their room, outside in good weather, or not at all.


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> It's OK not to like some foods. It's even OK not eat at a meal if nothing on the table appeals to you. I think we're all agreed about that. But I don't have time or money or patience to waste on preparing invalid fare for my healthy children, and I don't think "picky" or "highly sensitive" in developmentally normal children is a condition that is helped by doing such meal prep. Remember, what we are trying to get out of all this is an adult who can eat in a way that is socially neutral. Spending ten minutes massaging their orange is not the way to get there IMNSHO.


As I said above, I don't make special meals. I'm just talking about setting up a child's plate according to their own preferences, like being more careful with corn or orange strings on one plate, or separating the vegetables, or making sure the foods don't touch, that sort of thing. I don't make separate meals. But I see nothing wrong with making some alterations to the meal everyone else is eating, according to my kids' preferences. We've also learned a lot about nutrition and health in the last few generations, and I know that if I can get my kids to try and like a variety of foods at ages 0-5, that will have an enormous influence on their taste throughout life. Waiting until they might want to try it later just doesn't cut it for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Bolding mine. We are talking about kids who are *neurotypical*. What you are describing is *not* neurotypical. Neurotypical kids who do not have SIA or other issues... having the parent take every little string off of the orange when the child is 10 years of age and perfectly capable of doing it themselves... yes, I call that indulgence. My dd doesn't necessarily like the strings on the orange, but since she was about 2.5 years old, she was free to take off as much of the string as she wanted. She learned that it wasn't really worth it and after a couple of years stopped taking the strings off and got used to them... but she's neurotypical and not picky.


I'm sorry, my kids ARE neurotypical. Maybe your definition doesn't take into account the full range of typical. It doesn't sound like your child is as sensitive, which is fine and must make it easier for you. But there are plenty of neurotypical children that are more picky about those things. If you don't have a highly sensitive child, aren't highly sensitive yourself, and have no knowledge of it, then it's coming off as awfully judgemental to tell people here that their kids are neurologically atypical.

As far as the other poster's orange example, I can only say that my child is 4.5years old and able to take the strings off herself, but when she was younger I, too, peeled the membranes for her. She decided she liked them and we worked up from there. With some kids it takes more effort to get them to eat a variety of foods.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> As far as the other poster's orange example, I can only say that my child is 4.5years old and able to take the strings off herself, but when she was younger I, too, peeled the membranes for her. She decided she liked them and we worked up from there. With some kids it takes more effort to get them to eat a variety of foods.


Yup. And guess what ds asked for as a snack today? Oranges. I can count on one hand the number of times he has asked for fruit or vegetables so that was worth it. Btw, I don't peel grapes anymore







.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Same here (right down to the lack of dining room table). I suppose if I had more than one child, I might want to prepare their food at the same time. We are together so much of the time, what with homeschooling and all, that a meal time is not as important of a time to be together. I also prefer that people eat when they are hungry rather than when food is served. I always hated waiting for meals as a kid. They invariably weren't ready when we were told they would be and I'd be hungry yet discouraged from having a snack. Also, I don't think ds is naturally a regular person. Some people naturally have a sleeping, waking, hunger, bathroom schedule. My ds has always been all over the place with all of those things... Sit down meals are not a priority. I'll make big batches of things for dh and me to minimize cooking since it isn't really something I enjoy.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Family "food culture" does make a big difference.

I have 3 children in 4 years. The oldest is just at the point of getting some of his own snacks. So, that means, every time it's snack time, it is ME getting the snack out, helping them to eat it (by cutting it up or peeling fruit or whatever), then cleaning up. Sure, they help, but I do the bulk of it. It only makes sense that we all snack/eat together to leave just a little bit of time for other stuff.

So, for me, eating to hunger is a good, admirable thing. But, in our house, it was at the cost of leisure time and reading books time and time to just play with mama, so it wasn't a good enough goal to endure the cost.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

SpringLily - I *WAS* the "highly sensitive" child that was a picky eater... with a mother that indulged me and made excuses for me. It wasn't until I moved away from home to go to college that I learned that it was indulgence and that my parents never taught me that food cannot be EXACTLY as you want it to be EVERY single time you eat. I was taught that I was entitled to have my food perfectly to my tastes at all time and the result was a very, very, very picky Velochic. I had to learn the lessons on my own and I swore I'd never let my children (child, as it turns out) grow up that way.

My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college. The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on. If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry. I've had many of those situations in my life over the 25 or so years since then.

What I'm talking about is teaching children to be *adaptable*. If they have to have something exactly a certain way each time... no, I don't think that's neurotypical. Neurotypical kids can be taught to adapt to different situations - it's not "hardwired into the brain" that a food has to be exactly the way they want it every single time. But they have to be taught instead of indulged. I see SO many families where the kids dictate what is put on the table at night instead of learning that the whole family has tastes and everyone gets input into the meals. I think that is a disservice to the kids because they are not being raised to be comfortable in a variety of culinary situations.

We travel a lot around the world and have done so for dd's whole life. We've been in situations when there was quite literally no other food available than what was offered and what was offered was not exactly what we would consider to be very appetizing. If dd had not be taught to be adaptable to these situations, she would have just gone hungry. People who are indulged all their lives and are not taught to be adaptable with their food, grow up to be picky adults... and often that sense of entitlement spills over into other areas of life. I am teaching my dd to NOT be me as a child. It is working.

I'll also just gently remind people that approximately half of the world's population does not have a choice in the food they eat. To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives. I have seen these people. Teaching children to be adaptable and appreciate what we have is part of growing up, IMHO. Donning my flame-proof suit now as I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

I do agree with much of what you say Velochic. I see this kind of behavior in my nieces. Both were catered too and indulged when it came to food-their Mom would even jump up from HER dinner to make them something else if suddenly what was offered wasn't good enough. But one developed Celiac Disease and suddenly there went the nightly dinners of plain spaghetti and mac-n-cheese. She realized that salmon is actually good. She adores sushi. She HAD to adapt if she wanted to eat and she did. Her sister by the way still eats plain chicken.

I suspect that most of the differences really do come to down to cultural values about food. A few months ago I posted a thread about how my MIL brought over "used" dip. I thought it was really gross, but many here thought it perfectly acceptable.

There are many ways to get to the same place with our kids and we aren't going to agree on all of them. I think most here want to raise polite kids who simply say "no thank you" rather then "ewwwwwwwwww."

Here's where you lose me though:

Quote:


> To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives


I can appreciate that there are many people who lack the most basic resources that I take for granted. I am not going to make my kid eat every bite because "there are starving kids in China who would kill for that food." And I guess I feel like that you are rephrasing that age old argument. I don't think allowing some pickiness leads to entitlement. Would I destring an orange? Nope, not on your life. Cutting the crusts off of bread is about as far as I'll go-the dog loves crusts anyways. Do I think it is a slap in the face to starving people? No.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oaktreemama*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


It has nothing to do with "cleaning your plate". What I am saying is that it is important for people in wealthy western countries to keep in mind that we're privileged to have the variety that we have. An orange is an orange is an orange. And there are a lot of people in this world that would love to just have the orange - not to stave off starvation, but just to have the pleasure of a juicy sweet orange dripping down their chins. I guarantee you that they wouldn't be worrying about the strings in the orange!! Letting our kids turn up their noses at an orange that has too much "string" on it (as the ongoing example) is, IMO, really... I don't know a kind way of saying it. Horrible, I suppose. I think that we need to teach our children to appreciate what they have instead of going so far that it has to be so exact and perfect. Some adults still need to learn this. It's like people who won't eat an apple unless it is pristine or a banana unless it's without any brown spots. We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that. It's not about "starving kids" anywhere else. It's about respecting our abundance in the West.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

Quote:


> We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that.


We are terribly privileged. We can try to help our kids understand that. I just don't agree that we can do it through food preferences. We'll have to agree to disagree because I still think your analogy about being grateful for that orange is still going down the same road as being grateful for having food you really dislike because so many kids don't even have that choice. And I don't think that is a way to teach appreciation. I think it might be a good way to teach resentment though.

But as I said before I think food issues are loaded with many cultural biases/expectations/experiences and where I am coming from is not where others are coming from.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

But you could say that about so many things that we in the West enjoy... we have the privilege to chose our fancy clothes and bottled water and perfect vegetables and big houses. There are many things that would thrill people in some developing countries that we would reject, all of us. I like my carrots peeled and my coffee with cream and sugar (and my daughter makes it for me this way), and I don't think there's anything wrong with preferring this.

If a mom is happy to de-stringify an orange for her kid, or cut a sandwich into triangles, or give him salt to dip his radishes in... great. Why shouldn't we have foods prepared for us the way that we like them? That just seems like a loving thing to do...


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
> 
> It was never "breakfast at 7, lunch at 11, snack at 2, etc". Before we pulled the kids out to unschool we'd offer some breakfast in the morning if they wanted it. When the children were young I always made them meals, and when they got older the one standard meal of the day was dinner... usually around 6 or 7 pm. Essentially though? We ate when we were hungry to the extent that option was possible.


 Our meal/snack routine is pretty loose as well - breakfast is before school, then snack is some time after we get home, and dinner is usually between 5:30 and 6:30, so it's not like a rigid, dinnerbell type of thing, but if someone is hungry an hour before dinner what Ill do is ask them to wait just a few minutes and when I start dinner I'll cut up their veggies for them and have them munch on those while they wait, but I don't want them having a sandwich or a meal-quality food separate form the dinner we're all having together in an hour. On weekends, breakfast is when everyone is awake and hungry, snack is a couple hours after that when someone mentions it or I think of it, lunch is somewhere around noon, another snack around 2-3pm, and then dinner between 5:30 and 6:30. At least that feels loose to me, I don't watch the clock to be sure things are timed perfectly or anything, just a general, 'every 2-3 hours, we eat something and it's either a snack or a meal'. I just don't have people eating meals in between the major ones we eat together, I'll give them something really light to tide them over in teh afternoon or morning if they need it.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Letting our kids turn up their noses at an orange that has too much "string" on it (as the ongoing example) is, IMO, really... I don't know a kind way of saying it. Horrible, I suppose. I think that we need to teach our children to appreciate what they have instead of going so far that it has to be so exact and perfect. Some adults still need to learn this. It's like people who won't eat an apple unless it is pristine or a banana unless it's without any brown spots. We are absolutely the most privileged country on the planet and I think it's important that kids learn to appreciate that. It's not about "starving kids" anywhere else. It's about respecting our abundance in the West.


Um, I don't know how preparing a food so a kid won't gag turned into an all food must be perfect and unblemished entitlement issue. My skin free orange eater eats the broken crackers and the bananas with brown spots because we do our best not to waste food and he knows full well the cost of it with money being tight and all. He already sounds like a more well adjusted eater than you describe yourself when you left home so don't go projecting how you were at 18 or 20 on him at 9. I outright tell him food doesn't need to be "good" to eat, just ok is fine. We eat things that are healthful sometimes because they are healthful, not only if we love them. I'm not sure how taking the inner skins off orange segments is that different than say, chopping vegetables for a stir fry. Those veggies don't need to be in attractive bite sized pieces to be cooked and plopped on a plate, either.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Those veggies don't need to be in attractive bite sized pieces to be cooked and plopped on a plate, either


But they do need to be cut up into bite sized pieces ("attractive" is relative) to cook properly and be easily picked up with chopsticks.









I don't know any reason why an orange needs to have the strings taken off for any other reason than personal preference. I have nothing wrong with that preference but I do agree that at the age of 10 ( and as young as 3 or 4) a child should be able to do it themselves.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Phew, I'm so glad my ds isn't 10 yet and still has some grace period left in this horrible failing of his.









Yes, cut up veggies cook more easily. Just as skinless oranges can be swallowed more easily by a person with a gag reflex. How is that more of a personal preference than evenly cooked vegetables? Ya know, you can eat vegetables that aren't cooked perfectly. Some people sure are picky...


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> SpringLily - I *WAS* the "highly sensitive" child that was a picky eater... with a mother that indulged me and made excuses for me. It wasn't until I moved away from home to go to college that I learned that it was indulgence and that my parents never taught me that food cannot be EXACTLY as you want it to be EVERY single time you eat. I was taught that I was entitled to have my food perfectly to my tastes at all time and the result was a very, very, very picky Velochic. I had to learn the lessons on my own and I swore I'd never let my children (child, as it turns out) grow up that way.
> 
> ...


I think this is blowing the situation out of proportion. Because some kids gag or are repulsed by certain textures does not mean they are indulged. It certainly has nothing to do with the amount & quality of foods available in other countries. (And btw, I'm sure there are people within a mile of my house that don't have anything to eat, so you don't need to use other countries as an example.) *4evermom* and I have both already explained that we've helped our kids with it and they do better now because they're eating more foods than they would have. Surely you can't be suggesting that we should have forced them to eat whatever they were served, regardless of whether they gagged or screamed? That seems very unMDC-like. Or let them chose to eat only the handful of foods they like (like bread, rice, pasta, applesauce, and banana!) and leave the rest? Now _that_ would be indulgent. Surely what I'm talking about is the middle ground, to help them learn to like new flavors and textures, why is that concept wrong?

What I have been trying to explain is that you are generalizing that allowing for any of your children's food preferences is indulging them and creating the pickiness.

That is not ALWAYS true. Sometimes it is.

I have also seen kids be indulged about being picky and have seen the results of that when they become adults. That is not what we're talking about here.

I'm simply pointing out that for *some* kids, there's more going on than them just being picky and spoiled. It sounds like you're making blanket statements based on your own upbringing, but it just doesn't hold true for all families and situations. I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with that.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> My greatest lesson that food can't be perfect every time I eat was quickly learned when I moved to Moscow, Russia right out of college. The country was in upheaval and food was not always easy to come by and when it did, it was completely different than what I was raised on. If I didn't adapt, then I would go hungry.


So when you needed to adapt to eating different foods you were able to do so quickly, even though you were an adult at the time. How was the way you were raised a problem, then?

FWIW, my daughter, who was pretty much "catered to" as a child, as far as food, was able to adjust to food in Russia just fine as a teen.... and she was hundreds of miles from Moscow. Well, she missed things like fruit and vegetables and she never really loved pasta with ketchup or mayonnaise with... well, *everything* , but she certainly got enough to eat, and she learned to love raw tomatoes.

I, on the other hand, still have a lot of trouble with food in most countries... I don't adjust well. I was never allowed any options if I didn't like what my family was serving. I missed meals and hoarded food and wound up with eating disorders, and while I know my family's eating rules aren't the cause of all of that, I don't think they helped, either...


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## wahm (Dec 13, 2009)

None. I'll respond to this question with a question ...*Why does one cater to a child? What lies beneath catering to a child?*


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wahm*
> 
> None. I'll respond to this question with a question ...*Why does one cater to a child? What lies beneath catering to a child?*


Respect for the child as a human being would be my guess since that is why I give my dd choices when it comes to meals and allow her to choose other healthy alternatives on the rare occasions when she doesn't like what is offered.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I have respect for my husband, but I don't offer him alternative entrees either.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> I have respect for my husband, but I don't offer him alternative entrees either.


Presumably your husband can go into the kitchen and prepare something else if he wants it, though, or drive to the store. If you're fine with your kids doing the same and they're able to do so, then I don't think you'd need to offer...


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


First of all, Russia now is not NOT Russia during the upheaval and the beginning of democracy. It's a completely different country. Your dd had it EASY compared to the way life was when Yeltsin became president. The months around the fall of the Soviet Union (August 1991) were nothing like most anyone here has ever experienced. The few years following were the most painful the country has every experienced. Thrown into democracy with no experience being democratic turned the country on its ear. Also, I was there as a working adult, supporting myself. I was not a student. Another huge difference.

Secondly, I *didn't* adjust well. It took a year and I became anemic and was undernourished from a lack of variety. I lived off of bread and cheese for the first year. Food was still government issued for a while after 1991. I didn't have access to the foods you mention above. Everything was new to me. Eventually things like pasta became available, but not at first. I was lucky to make a friend in my apartment that started to teach me how to cook. It was cooking like I had never experienced before, and I still had to get used to the flavors. It took a very long time. I suffered for my lack of adaptability.

Nope, I did NOT adjust easily. It was one of the most difficult things I ever did in my life. And it wasn't just food that I had to adjust to. I was a spoiled American. That move really opened my eyes. I've been back since then and Russia is completely different. Life is easy there now. No comparison between when I lived there in the early 90's and when your dd was there. None.

My dd, OTOH, had no problem when she was 4 to eat the generous, yet pitiful offerings in the small Turkish village where we were visiting. Foods we'd never seen and sounded unappetizing (tripe soup) were no problem for her. She just ate without a second thought. She enjoys trying new food (duck tongue, anyone?) If I had had even a fraction of her adaptability when I moved to Russia, it wouldn't have taken me nearly as long to learn to just eat what I could find. My dd has traveled all over the world in her 8 years and she's never had a problem adapting... she adapts better than I do even now. I think my parents did a disservice to me by indulging me. I refuse to raise her the same way. It works for my family.


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

We had a really bad period last fall where every night, no matter what we made, dinner was a battle with our older daughter. What is in place now and what is working for us is first and for most make sure she is eating lunch and snack during the day. it turns out she wasn't liking hte lunch at school and wouldn't eat enough and would just have break downs by dinner time here. So I make sure to go over her lunch menu with her and see what she ate each day and I give a decent snack after school with protein.

That said, what is on the table is dinner. We are careful to always have at least one thing on it we know she will eat. Otherwise, we eat fruit for desert and she can always have fruit. People who don't eat veggies can't have any special deserts (occasionally we have cake or cookies or something). Things are going much better so far. We are keeping our fingers crossed. FTR, Eva is almost 4. I think some it may be age related too. But really, we just couldn't do the daily battle anymore, ruining everyone's evening.

The lo is 16 months. If she refuses food she gets cereal, leftovers or crackers with peanut butter because I don't want to wake up at 2am because she is hungry =)


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## laneysprout (Aug 5, 2006)

Getting kids to eat is a two-way street. It's our job to provide healthy, nutritious foods and their job to eat it. While my DD may not eat what we prepare for any given meal, when I look at what she eats over the course of a day, week, or month, I worry less. I think it's important for kids to learn to regulate their appetites, and I encourage her to listen to her body. Sometimes, this means she doesn't eat when *I* want her, too. I just keep reminding myself that I'm doing my part and I need to trust her to do hers.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> I'll also just gently remind people that approximately half of the world's population does not have a choice in the food they eat. To indulge our children to the point that they won't eat an orange if we don't take every string off is kind of a slap in the face to the people who will never have an orange to eat ever in their lives. I have seen these people. Teaching children to be adaptable and appreciate what we have is part of growing up, IMHO. Donning my flame-proof suit now as I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree.


I don't disagree about the worldwide hunger/choice issue.

But I am raising my child here where learning to navigate the choices available is actually one of the food issues.

To provide another story, I grew up in a home where food was absolutely controlled by my mother. Portions were set out before everyone sat down to dinner and if you happened to have been active all day and hungrier than usual, too bad - even when there was food left, because the leftovers were controlled as well. Even vegetables. Although it wasn't one of those "clear your plate or you will eat it tomorrow" homes, my mother's investment in her cooking was such that if you said you didn't care for something (even when asked) there was an emotional storm that often hit wildly. ("I don't know why I bother" and then two days of a strike where perhaps almost no food was available.) We were not that poor; we definitely had a strict budget but it was self-imposed.

My mum also went through health phases and then junk phases, so one year everything with sugar would disappear and it would all be carob and soy nuts (70s ), And then another year she might be on a feminist phase of not "cooking" so it would all be Hamburger Helper and Chef Boy-ar-dee and tv dinners and take out.

You can add to this that my mother is not a gifted cook, and she has some OCD issues so that for example, all chicken would have to be cooked way past what most people would consider to be done. Like dessicated.

I will say that my palate probably was slightly more expanded than it would have been otherwise because of the emotional atmosphere, but I wasn't naturally that picky anyway. But my relationship to food was a disaster. Because of the portion control when I hit my teens I was hungry all the time, and dreaded each meal, and would get yelled at for taking crackers out of the cupboard. I'd say though that it was feeling that I was not allowed any preferences at all that drove me emotionally.

I started to buy food on the way home from school pretty early on and hide it and gorge - probably around grade 5, although I didn't have much money until I was babysitting more, so grade 8. It wasn't just about hunger, but also to be kind of numbed out on food. I ate fast food and I would shop discount stores for huge bags of cookies. I got an extra job at the school library to buy food. Occasionally I would even take change from my dad's dresser top to feed my habit. I was pretty active, so I wasn't hugely overweight but as my growth slowed it started to show.

In university we still had the old unlimited food meal plans and I went. nuts. The industrial cafeteria food had more taste than a lot of my mum's food, and there was no tension, but good conversation with friends. I probably gained about 25 lbs my first year.

When I moved out on my own, I had food hoarding issues. In my first apartment after marriage I filled two closets with canned food and wasted so much that would go bad in the fridge. I still start to feel nervous if we have fewer than 5 cans of pasta sauce, etc. Between my husband, who's a great cook, and me, we both ended up gaining weight. It was only in my late 20s that I realized I had a problem (after a tower of cans fell onto my toe) and started to downgrade my 'stash' and when I was in therapy later on it was one of the things we worked on

So although I do agree that we can and should guide our kids with different flavours and meals and I'm not a fan of the "make the kids nuggets" mode, the fact is that if I'm going to err I would rather have a slightly more indulged and pickier kid who knows his own tastes and body than anything like how I grew up.

Now as I said, though, my son is naturally a pretty reasonable eater in terms of breadth (he eats tiny portions). If I had a child who was down to three foods I'd have to reconsider a bit and get some more advice.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

You make a good point, GuildJenn. Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options. Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here. Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues. They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat. There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> You make a good point, GuildJenn. Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options. Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here. Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues. They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat. There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.


Well I know picky eating Indian and Chinese raised adults, so I don't know if it's just a Western issue, but I can speak to my perception of the Western issue. 

I think some cultures actually kind of support picky eating - like if you have rice with every single meal, that's a kid-friendly staple for your culture.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> My dd, OTOH, had no problem when she was 4 to eat the generous, yet pitiful offerings in the small Turkish village where we were visiting. Foods we'd never seen and sounded unappetizing (tripe soup) were no problem for her. She just ate without a second thought.


It sounds like you started out with a naturally adaptable child who enjoyed eating food in general. I suspect you're giving your child raising techniques full credit when some is due to your dd's genetic input on her father's side. In contrast, I was like your dd. I ate anything and assumed ds would be similar. But I had a child who had essentially no interest in putting anything but my breast in his mouth. He didn't really start eating food beyond a few bites until he was three and I began figuring out his texture issue. Other than food, he's a pretty adaptable kid, too. I didn't start with a child who would eat much variety of food and "indulge" him to the point where he eats fewer foods prepared in more specific ways like you imply. I started out with a child hesitant to eat anything that wasn't dry and crunchy or breastmilk and "indulged" him to the point where he will eat most common to our culture non-spicy foods. He is much like his father.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GuildJenn*
> 
> I think some cultures actually kind of support picky eating - like if you have rice with every single meal, that's a kid-friendly staple for your culture.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> You make a good point, GuildJenn. Learning to navigate food choices is more difficult when you have more options. Perhaps over-abundance is the root issue here. Because in my dh's very large family in Turkey, there isn't a single picky eater and not one person has food issues. They have a much more narrow range of choices, though, and over-abundance isn't something that they know - just whatever is available, they eat. There is no chance of getting mom to make something different.


That is how my family was and both my brother and I are very picky eaters, we will go hungry rather than eat something we don't like the look, smell, taste, or texture of and that has always been the case. I think it can go either way whether your family respects your desire to have an alternative healthy food or not. Personality probably has a lot more to do with it than being forced to choose between gagging something you can't stand down or going hungry.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Of course I'm giving our child-rearing techniques credit. But like your ds, my dd did not even want to taste solids until she was over a year old. She was still getting most of her nutrition from BM at nearly 2 yo and didn't wean until she was 4 (although the last 6 months were few nursings far between). She was picky as hell her first couple of years. You are saying your ds has a texture issue. Therein lies the difference. That is not what I would consider to be neurotypical. That's a sensory integration issue. My dd was just lazy - she has no sensory issues. BM is sweet and was instantly available and that was her preference. But once she started eating, I never fed her processed or fast food and the food she ate was not the same thing all the time (and she was exposed to world cuisine from the age of eating solids). Heck yeah, I'm going to give my child raising technique credit. I could have given her crap McDonalds all the time and she would have gotten used to the processed, salty, fatty food instead of healthy home-cooked, from scratch with lots of spices food. She would have ended up picky. The factor of her father's side of the family is that they live in a 3rd world country and have no luxury for pickiness. It has nothing to do with genetics, it has to do with what's available. And again, we're talking about kids who do NOT have sensory issues.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Oh, OK. Thanks for the diagnosis.









Now it sounds like we parent exactly the same way and are getting different results due to something that isn't genetics.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Oh, OK. Thanks for the diagnosis.
> 
> ...


I guarantee you that we don't parent the same way. Everybody parents differently. As for the "diagnosis", as you put it, were you not the one who said that your child has texture issues? Is that not sensory? So many here say that their child isn't picky, but have sensory issues and texture is one of them. I'm just echoing what I've learned here - texture issues are due to sensory input, not pickiness.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


> Presumably your husband can go into the kitchen and prepare something else if he wants it, though, or drive to the store. If you're fine with your kids doing the same and they're able to do so, then I don't think you'd need to offer...


Yes, this. ITA.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Sure he's sensitive but according to you he is out of the realm of neurotypical. As I must also be for not liking to wear wool. And my dad for not liking to go swimming and having to wear a wet suit. And my brother for throwing up after eating tough meat. And my mother for not being able to watch scary or emotional movies. And my other brother for being very aware of smells. It's all part of being highly sensitive. Or maybe I just don't know enough neurotypical people to recognize that we aren't.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


You're putting words in my mouth, as I have not said anything regarding you, your father, your brother, your mother, or your other brother, now have I? You are making these leaps of generalization on your own. You said your son has texture issues. Fine, don't use the word "neurotypical". He still has an issue with food. We were talking about children who do *not* have sensory issues with food and who are picky. Period. I've made my point, and I will move on. We will never agree on this.


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Velochic, I already explained to you that there is a range of what "neurotypical" means.

You obviously went through a very difficult time related to food, and of course that is going to influence how you see this. But unless you are a doctor, please stop telling other parents what diagnoses their kids have.

You can't earn a medical degree from reading message boards.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *velochic* 


> You're putting words in my mouth, as I have not said anything regarding you, your father, your brother, your mother, or your other brother, now have I? You are making these leaps of generalization on your own. You said your son has texture issues. Fine, don't use the word "neurotypical". He still has an issue with food. We were talking about children who do *not* have sensory issues with food and who are picky. Period. I've made my point, and I will move on. We will never agree on this.


Just like you are making leaps of generalizations such as picky kids are that way because they are fed McDonalds. I label ds have having texture issues. The next person would just say he was picky. Much of it is how it is viewed. There isn't a hard and fast line between personal preferences, texture preferences, taste preferences, and a lack thereof. To me pickiness has more to do with being in a power struggle or wanting to assert independence. There can be other reasons for having a selective palate . It could be due to having sensitive tastes, a gag reflex that makes swallowing certain textures difficult or unpleasant, or perhaps a subtle allergic reaction or food sensitivity causing something difficult for a parent to notice like an itchy mouth or a vaguely upset stomach. My only reason in posting on this thread was to advocate that it can be more than a power issue and simply being firm and insisting the child eat what is served can be cruel in such situations. Then my points kept getting discounted because either I created his pickiness by indulging him (by expanding his food palate to include fruit







) or he wasn't neurotypical to start with.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> Velochic, I already explained to you that there is a range of what "neurotypical" means.
> 
> ...


And I already said, "fine, don't use the term". I was just using the term used in this thread, and I never "offered" a "diagnosis". I was using common terminology. My point is that there is a difference between "issues" (or whatEVER term you want to use) and plain old pickiness, which can be a learned behavior. This thread was about kids with no physical reason to refuse certain foods. (Is it O.K. to phrase it that way, or it that implying that I'm acting as a doctor and giving diagnoses??







)


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *4evermom* 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> 
> > You're putting words in my mouth, as I have not said anything regarding you, your father, your brother, your mother, or your other brother, now have I? You are making these leaps of generalization on your own. You said your son has texture issues. Fine, don't use the word "neurotypical". He still has an issue with food. We were talking about children who do *not* have sensory issues with food and who are picky. Period. I've made my point, and I will move on. We will never agree on this.
> ...


I absolutely think that kids can become picky from being indulged with McDonalds all the time and it's not a generalization because I've seen it happen to several children in my family. These are mostly grown adults now that still eat fast food once or twice a day every day. I didn't say that it applied to ALL picky children.


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

You do keep bringing up "sensory issues" and qualifying your statement about kids who do and do not have them. But the problem is that MANY people have those issues, to varying extents. So you can't just rule out all the people who are picky for those reasons as having "issues." Sensitivities are not "issues" in the way you're suggesting.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

The trouble is not all parents are omniscient and know how their children experience food at all times. Addressing "pickiness" as being only a learned behavior to be discouraged leads to a closed minded approach which does not allow for other possibilities. Food sensitivities can develop at any age. Sometimes allergies have a threshold that must be reached before a reaction occurs. For instance, I react to feta cheese during rag weed season but can eat it without a reaction at other times of the year (unless I'm around cats, lol).


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *velochic* 


> and plain old pickiness, which *can* be a learned behavior.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4evermom*
> 
> The trouble is not all parents are omniscient and know how their children experience food at all times. Addressing "pickiness" as being *only* a learned behavior to be discouraged leads to a closed minded approach which does not allow for other possibilities.


I did not say that pickiness is *only* a learned behavior. I said that it is one way kids become picky. Please reread my post.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"Presumably your husband can go into the kitchen and prepare something else if he wants it, though..."

He can. But he doesn't, because that would be disrespectful to me, the cook, and to our family time, which is what is happening at the dinner table. Dinner is for nourishing your body and talking about your day, not for discussion of the relative merits of the food served or interrupting the social interaction for field trips into the kitchen to find foods other than what's on the table - or destringing a 3rd grader's orange.

I'm glad we've gotten over the "clean your plate" phase of American food culture, but there's a whooooooooole lot of gray area in between that 50s approach and a mindset that "dinner" is whatever you want, whenever you want it. Especially in our world of caloric superbundance and processed junk everywhere, grazing on only-your-favorites isn't a coherent food culture. It's an absence of culture. ("Culture" is this instance meaning "behavioral guidelines that sustain personal and social health," not "classy behavior." I'm sure that grazing can be done in a very classy manner.








)


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smithie*
> 
> "Presumably your husband can go into the kitchen and prepare something else if he wants it, though..."
> 
> ...


I'm curious, do you take into consideration what your husband likes when you're shopping or meal planning?

I know that if I make a new recipe that I like and DH isn't into it, I don't make it again. Unless he's out of town. There are certain foods he doesn't like, so I substitute for those or chose recipes without them. The kids don't get that level of respect; if we like it, they're expected to eat it, too. They're expected to try new foods. If they're a little picky about _how_ I'm serving it, that's fine with me and I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

Control issues are a big factor in eating disorders, so I think it's fine to set limits and let them have a say so within that framework.

Also, I don't think it's quite fair to compare adults and children, because adults have a very different palate and more developed taste buds, besides a better understanding of nutrition and health.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> I did not say that pickiness is *only* a learned behavior. I said that it is one way kids become picky. Please reread my post.


Oh my last post was just a general pulling some final thoughts together. Just trying to encourage people to keep a balanced approach and an open mind to the possibility that other people don't experience food the same way as they do. Enough people advocate the "they'll eat what I serve if they get hungry enough" approach that I feel compelled to balance it with another pov.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spring Lily*
> 
> You do keep bringing up "sensory issues" and qualifying your statement about kids who do and do not have them. But the problem is that MANY people have those issues, to varying extents. So you can't just rule out all the people who are picky for those reasons as having "issues." Sensitivities are not "issues" in the way you're suggesting.


I disagree. I don't think that MANY people have sensory issues. I think that people have preferences for food. If an entire class of food is discounted for a physiological reason (texture, color, food group, for example), then I would call that a food "issue". I do see a difference between picky and sensitive. You are splitting hairs for the sake of argument. Please leave me out of that argument. I agree to disagree and leave it at that.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I do the grocery shopping and the cooking in my house. I make sure that I buy healthy stuff-no twinkies, pop tarts, etc. And I try to cook things that most of the family will eat. For example, DH and DD1 don't like chili, I love it, so although it's perfect for this time of year, no chili for us. But, I never want food to be a big deal for my kids, so, I don't make it a big deal. That means that anyone can have access to anything at any time. The only exception is if I have bought something I don't normally buy, specifically for a specific recipe. For example, I only buy enchilada sauce if enchiladas are on the menu for a dinner, that means DD1 (who is 15) cannot use it to make her lunch for school.

DD2 is only 2 and has the verbal abilities of most 12 to 15 month olds. She can't tell me if she likes something or not. I have only seen her react with active dislike of anything a few times. However, she regularly takes just a few bites and is done. It's hard to adjust my "system" to her because I can't tell why she wants out of her chair...if she doesn't like the food all that much, if she is full, if she is just more interested in playing, I dunno.


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> I disagree. I don't think that MANY people have sensory issues. I think that people have preferences for food. If an entire class of food is discounted for a physiological reason (texture, color, food group, for example), then I would call that a food "issue". I do see a difference between picky and sensitive. You are splitting hairs for the sake of argument. Please leave me out of that argument. I agree to disagree and leave it at that.


I agree, "many" people do not have sensory issues. I did not say they did, if you read my post.

What I have said in this thread is that 20% of the neurotypical population has sensitivities, though. Which to me is "many" people. We do not need to argue. You obviously have your mind made up about what everyone is like and what categories they fit in, whether that is indulgent or with a sensory disorder. I'm done trying to help you see that your view of people is over simplistic on this topic. I did not want to get into an argument on it in the first place, I just don't like hearing that you think my kid has a sensory disorder because she doesn't seem to fit into your schema.


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## PrettyButterfly (Sep 17, 2010)

I've got to say I love this "The4of us"!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> I know lots of families say cereal or a sandwich or whatever the kid could get themselves, but we got burnt out on even that idea going on at our house, when my kids were similar in age to yours. We had a series of conversations about food, food as fuel and food as fun, and talked about how you *don't* have to like everything you eat...for instance, my DH does not like rice (which baffles me, but whatever :lol, but when I make a dish with rice in it, he eats it. Or, he makes chili totally different than I do and I like mine a lot better, but when he makes it, I eat it. We have plenty of opportunities to have foods we love throughout the week, so that when foods we're not crazy about come along, we just eat them anyway because they are good for us in a well rounded diet. The kids each get to choose their breakfast and lunch, and each kid gets to plan one dinner a week. The other 5 dinners are DH and my choice (keeping in mind everyone's preferences), and it's eat what's there, eat what's there as a snack before bed, or wait until morning (because not eating dinner then having a yogurt before bedtime is a pretty good trick, dontcha think?  ). My kids have no sensory issues, and will not starve themselves or make themselves sick, so this is a pretty straightforward thing for us - I understand other people have issues to contend with, but for us it was just pickiness, basically created by us over a long period of time. There is always at least one item they like on the table, even if it's just the salad; but that's the only option, there is no getting up from the table to get something else. The only time now we make the kids separate items is when it's something they find truly objectionable (they both nearly gag when they see casserole/stew/soup consistency foods and it's a texture/flavor blend thing I totally get, so those we don't push - we'll give them maybe one or two bites of it and then something else they do enjoy, so we're slowly working them into it).
> 
> ...


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## Tumble Bumbles (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't know why people even care so much what other people's kids are eating and what other parents do with their children. It's ridiculous.

Don't worry, if my kid ever becomes friends with your kid and comes to your house for dinner and says "I find sauce too spicy, can I please have some pasta before you've put the sauce on? Thank you." (which is pretty verbatim to what she says now at 5), you can feel free to berate her about starving children in Southeast Asia, tell her how spoiled and indulged she is, tell her she gets no other food until she eats what's there, and that her horrible mother created her pickiness because she actually respected her preferences. If that would make you feel better, that is.









Until then, I'll continue to offer easy, healthy alternatives, teach her to listen to her body/belly/palate, model consideration for those we love, teach her polite ways to advocate for her preferences without offending people, and take virtually NO time or extra effort at ALL to reserve some pasta free from sauce while also gently encouraging new foods with no pressure or coercion. Additionally, mealtimes will continue to be pleasurable times of connection for all involved with very little extra work on my part. How terrible.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

I used to offer alternatives but it was resulting in my child refusing anything healthy and only eating what we consider to be junky food. So we stopped that. And he adapted quite nicely. He now eats salads, all sorts of vegetables, meats of all kinds. I try to serve mostly what I know he and my husband like and tolerate, but I am also continually introducing new foods. We require that he tries the food, and he can absolutely refuse the food, but he no longer receives an alternative and can wait for the next meal or snack. He won't dry up and blow away for refusing one side or entree of one meal.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geekgolightly*
> 
> I used to offer alternatives but it was resulting in my child refusing anything healthy and only eating what we consider to be junky food. So we stopped that. And he adapted quite nicely. He now eats salads, all sorts of vegetables, meats of all kinds. I try to serve mostly what I know he and my husband like and tolerate, but I am also continually introducing new foods. We require that he tries the food, and he can absolutely refuse the food, but he no longer receives an alternative and can wait for the next meal or snack. He won't dry up and blow away for refusing one side or entree of one meal.


This is what we've had to start doing, as well. My kids got to the point where they wouldn't eat a single thing we cooked. I don't make them eat all their food by any means, and we eat meals often enough they won't starve. But they can't live off of Boca chick'n patties and pb & j forever.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> First of all, Russia now is not NOT Russia during the upheaval and the beginning of democracy. It's a completely different country. Your dd had it EASY compared to the way life was when Yeltsin became president. The months around the fall of the Soviet Union (August 1991) were nothing like most anyone here has ever experienced. The few years following were the most painful the country has every experienced. Thrown into democracy with no experience being democratic turned the country on its ear. Also, I was there as a working adult, supporting myself. I was not a student. Another huge difference.
> 
> ...


I never said anything about the country being the same - that would be silly - but you, as a working adult, had the ability to shop for and prepare the meals you wanted from the things that were available, limited though they may have been. Rain was there as a dependent child whose only option was to eat what her host family or school cafeteria prepared. Apparently you had regular access to cheese, anyway, which just for the record is something Rain rarely found where she was living last year, and when she did it was a particular kind of cheese that was like nothing she'd eaten before. It's a huge country, and what's happening today in Moscow and Petersburg isn't necessarily what's happening in the rest of it. I know she would have preferred bread and cheese to pasta and ketchup, anyway, and she did come back to me pale as a ghost (her whole group was) and unhealthy. No, she didn't have it easy, in more ways than food, but that's a whole other post.

It seems sort of ironic today that I took her to Tunisia for the next month and she was able to eat lots of good healthy Tunisian food and sit in the sun and get healthy again...

Maybe the real problem is that you went as a "spoiled American" and Rain didn't. She grew up understanding that we do what we can to help people out and make things better for them when we can, and deal with it when we can't. Being sensitive to a child's food preferences doesn't equal spoiling them.



> Of course I'm giving our child-rearing techniques credit. But like your ds, my dd did not even want to taste solids until she was over a year old. She was still getting most of her nutrition from BM at nearly 2 yo and didn't wean until she was 4 (although the last 6 months were few nursings far between). She was picky as hell her first couple of years. You are saying your ds has a texture issue. Therein lies the difference. That is not what I would consider to be neurotypical. That's a sensory integration issue. My dd was just lazy - she has no sensory issues. BM is sweet and was instantly available and that was her preference. But once she started eating, I never fed her processed or fast food and the food she ate was not the same thing all the time (and she was exposed to world cuisine from the age of eating solids). Heck yeah, I'm going to give my child raising technique credit. I could have given her crap McDonalds all the time and she would have gotten used to the processed, salty, fatty food instead of healthy home-cooked, from scratch with lots of spices food. She would have ended up picky. The factor of her father's side of the family is that they live in a 3rd world country and have no luxury for pickiness. It has nothing to do with genetics, it has to do with what's available. And again, we're talking about kids who do NOT have sensory issues.


So, what about those of us who offered our kids a variety of foods and didn't do McDonalds and didn't wind up with 4 year olds who enjoyed new foods and would eat anything? Because I'd venture to say that a lot of us fall into that category... and I'm also throwing in a kid who was prone to meltdowns if she didn't eat, so not having a backup food that she would eat would have been basically setting her up for a crisis. I think you were lucky to end up with a kid who eats a variety of food without a fuss, but with one data point it's easy to assume that your good luck is because of something you did.

The thing with most kids in developing countries is that they don't eat a wide variety of foods - they generally eat the same things day after day, maybe changing a bit seasonally but basically the same, because that's what they have available. Actually, some of the aid programs have run into problems for exactly this reason - the food they've brought into countries isn't what the people are used to eating.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I had to slightly giggle at all the refrences earlier to orange slices. I've hated those dumb strings and skins on oranges for as long as I can remember they taste super bitter to me DH says they are tasteless but I don't think so.

SO the ONLY way I've even served an orange to my kids is by sectioning it which removes all skin and white stringy things I can section an orange in the same time it takes my DH to peel one. SO I dont do it cause I'm catering I do it cause it is how I happen to make it for ME. LOL


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *octobermom*
> 
> I had to slightly giggle at all the refrences earlier to orange slices. I've hated those dumb strings and skins on oranges for as long as I can remember they taste super bitter to me DH says they are tasteless but I don't think so.
> 
> SO the ONLY way I've even served an orange to my kids is by sectioning it which removes all skin and white stringy things I can section an orange in the same time it takes my DH to peel one. SO I dont do it cause I'm catering I do it cause it is how I happen to make it for ME. LOL










They are super bitter! I happen to like bitter, however. Ds... not so much. So I understand what he is tasting and that he doesn't like it. It surprised me how many fruits have a bitter undertone once I started paying attention. Plus some of them have tough parts and he doesn't like trying to swallow a glob of fiber. It's really a multifactor thing with the taste, the gag reflex, and possibly teeth issues since he has had a lot of dental work and recently broke a tooth while eating (though maybe I should use the word concern, rather than "issue" since that seems to be loaded with extra connotations of diagnoses when I merely mean this definition: "a misgiving, objection, or complaint"). Running into a hard bit, like a small seed, is disturbing. If it was just texture, he'd happily eat canned mandarin oranges, or those "cup of fruit" things. But he thinks they have a strange flavor and I have to agree with him.


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## onyxravnos (Dec 30, 2006)

my rule is : eat it or don't.

DSD wont eat anything with a vegetable in it on it or near it (and I'm a vegetarian) so we had this fight a lot. in the end i ended up pretty much cutting out all snacks and very rarely is their desert at all because i didn't like how it turned out to be a tit for tat with the veggies eaten but only if there was desert.

if you don't eat what i make you can wait until the next meal.

I do always offer cereal for breakfast because i know she will eat that so at least she eats once a day but often she chooses to skip lunch and dinner. I just repeat to my self "eat it or don't" & "she'll grow out of it"


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

If the kids won't eat what's for dinner, they can have an apple and a peanut butter sandwich.


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## frugalmum (Nov 5, 2009)

My kids are EXTREMELY picky, to the point you would all be shaking your heads and clucking your tongues.

The alternatives we offer cannot require much, or any, effort from me if I have already cooked.

cereal with milk (rice krispies, cheerioes, corn flakes, nothing ultra sweetened)

plain homemade (white) bread that is always on hand

slice of cheese

piece of fruit

any non-dessert leftover that is lying around (I might heat up homemade pizza after I am done eating)

when we had a working toaster-- toast

veggies (most don't eat them)

We tend to always have homemade dessert on hand so there are times they sneak that in, instead of something non-dessert, if I am not paying attention.

crackers, apples, yogurt all day doesn't sound bad.

I am a very picky eater too and I regress during times of stress-- right now I have eaten the same thing for every meal for nearly a month and it doesn't look like I'm going to change any time soon. It's fairly healthy with the exception of including the homemade white bread.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

Our recent alternative has been a sandwich or cereal that my stepdaughter makes herself. I work more than full time, my husband's running for office, and we have a 6-month-old. We do not have time to cater to her pickiness (which, she is neurotypical and does not have textural issues--I think it's mostly peer pressure and control issues), nor do we want to be eating nothing but pizza and macaroni all weekend and all summer.

And what happened this weekend? She refused to eat anything we served (we made a shrimp stir fry, rice, and pineapple, and she didn't even touch the rice or pineapple), AND she refused to make anything herself. (She's 8, not sick, injured, or otherwise disabled. She's capable.) So, she went hungry, and started demanding her dad make her macaroni and cheese right before bedtime. He refused, told her she could get herself a small bowl of cereal if she was hungry, and she grumbled about liking Mom better and decided to moan about starving to death. This repeated all weekend. I'm not sure what else we could have done.

We're down, pretty much, to white carbs, ground beef, and tomato sauce, but not if there are any chunks in it. "Pick them out." "No, YOU pick them out. I didn't ask for them in the first place."


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I used to be a short order cook for my family, but now..I tell them if they want something different, they have to make it themselves..meaning PBJ sandwich or bowl of cereal.


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