# Has this been discussed? EPA investigating health risks of PFOA, used in Polartec and



## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

any fabric that has been treated with a waterproofing spray, like DWR. I find this concerning...

Do a news search for DuPont and Teflon and you'll find the story.

Here are some excerpts from the Chicago Tribune:

Quote:

PFOA or perfluorooctanoic acid is used in the manufacture of non-stick cookware, rain-repellent clothing and hundreds of other products.
It's used in making Polartec fleece, for example, which means if you use fleece diaper covers for your babe, they likely contain small amounts of PFOA.

Researchers are now finding conclusive evidence that

Quote:

this chemical accumulates in the body, doesn't break down in the environment, and causes ailments in animals, including cancer, liver damage and birth defects.

Environmental regulators are particularly alarmed because scientists are finding perfluorooctanoic acid, or PFOA, in the blood of people worldwide, and it takes years for the chemical to leave the body. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency reported last week that exposure even to low levels of PFOA could be harmful.

Although DuPont says the manufacturing process leaves only trace amounts of the chemical in non-stick cookware and other goods, some researchers think that as Teflon products age they release chemicals that then break down into PFOA.
I can't help but wonder what urine and frequent washing would do to these fluoropolymer coatings and if they might not break down even faster under these conditions?

While the EPA has *not*yet issued a recommendation saying to stop using fluoropolymer products altogether, it *is* charging DuPont with hiding the risks of using this chemical and with covering up evidence of its negative health impact on workers and residents living near its plant.







To me, that says it's *not* safe, or at the very least, not without some significant concerns.

These findings could have far-reaching effects: at our house, we cook with non-stick cookware, some of our furniture has Stainguard on the upholstery, we own several fleece covers and other clothing made from Polartec fleece or Goretex, and for all I know our carpet has been treated with stain-repellent, too. Scary stuff!









ETA: Holy cow! Does anyone know if PFOA is used to make PUL?









Guin


----------



## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Here's a thread in another forum, and here's a link to the full story. I find the whole thing kind of overwhelming right now. It makes me sick.


----------



## jmreinke (Jan 1, 2003)

I saw a 20/20 this summer about teflon and using it with pet birds in the kitchen can actually kill them! It was the first I had ever heard of it.

Is it just the polar-tec fleece that is bad? What about regular fleece and microfleece?


----------



## Guinevere (Apr 17, 2004)

I can't believe I didn't know anything about this before now, I must have been living under a rock (or, more likely, too busy being pg and nursing and parenting my brood to keep up properly with the news







: )!

From what I've been reading, I think it's only fleece that has water-repellant features that is a hazard. And PUL doesn't seem to contain it, either, thank goodness, although I'm not altogether sure how polyurethane is manufactured and I'm sure it's got issues, too, of some sort.

I'm so sad







...I've adored the set of pots and pans we've been using ever since our wedding 7 yrs. ago -- high-quality non-stick -- and now I think I need to ditch them all and get me some cast iron and stainless steel! And guess our fleece covers are out of circulation now, too...

Guin


----------



## lisabc311 (May 18, 2003)

This is exactly why I won't use fleece products against my DS's skin in his diapers...but now I am having second thoughts about fleece covers too.







Scary, scary stuff!!!

As for teflon, I stopped using all of our non-stick cookware about a year ago. I also would not let them put the stain repellant on our new sofa when we bought it. They looked at me like I had 2 heads when I adamantly refused it too! They even tried to tell me over and over that it was "hypoallergenic" and were noticeably irritated when I responded with, "I don't want my child climbing all over something covered in chemicals."

Thanks for the links.


----------



## lisabc311 (May 18, 2003)

Oh, I also wanted to add that I bought my first iron skillet this summer and I LOVE it!!! It is naturally stick proof and cooks food so evenly. It's great!


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

OK...some of my PUL covers are leaking. I was going to re water proof them. Should I? Or is it better to just throw them out?


----------



## Mami (Mar 19, 2004)

Someone mentioned something like this when I was researching mama cloth, I really had never thought of it... scary stuff.


----------



## BCmamaof6 (Sep 7, 2004)

Ah...would that include microfleece lined diapers such as FCB nightlights?


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Need more info!!!


----------



## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:

From what I've been reading, I think it's only fleece that has water-repellant features that is a hazard. And PUL doesn't seem to contain it, either, thank goodness, although I'm not altogether sure how polyurethane is manufactured and I'm sure it's got issues, too, of some sort.

Quote:

Ah...would that include microfleece lined diapers such as FCB nightlights?
microfleece is not treated with any type of water repellant as its made to wick water through it... not repell it


----------



## BCmamaof6 (Sep 7, 2004)

Whew!


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Ack! This is why I have been trying to avoid those products...it makes me sick that people who run companies can do that. <sigh>


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

RRRRRRRRRRRRr

I LOVE fleece. And I LOVE my teflon skillet. DH just had my cast iron skillets seasoned though as a Christmas gift, so I may be dragging those down instead now. I used to have a bird, so I've known for years how teflon can kill birds, which is why we have an insanely expensive stainless cookware set. But some things, like a cheesy egg omelet filled with potatoes, tomato, peppers & onions, just beg for non-stick.









I guess I'll have to stick with microfleece liners and wave bye-bye to the Stacinators I love so much.....
















There's just no way these large corporations can be held accountable BEFORE their actions can cause harm. As a voting American, I want LESS government in my life, so I have difficulty saying that the EPA/government should be more pro-active, sticking their nose into big business yet staying out of my life. It's a double standard. But these large companies cannot be counted upon to regulate themselves. It's the nature of a capitalistic society - to get ahead $$$, the unscrupulous will always find a way to hide behind the mask of social goodwill. DuPont's economic contributions to that area of the country are without question - how can they be expected to act 100% above-board when they have such an easy screen to hide behind?

And one more thing!







: While the EPA regulators are investigating the health risks of PFOA's, could they toss a disposable diaper in, just for kicks? Can we have some lab rats wear sposies for a few years and then do some bloodwork on them, just for kicks??


----------



## papaya rain (Aug 5, 2004)

I think someone needs to email to see if Stacinators are made with Polartec fleece! That would suck for sure! Here is what the site says,

Quote:

All covers are made from luxurious, 200 weight fleece made by Malden Mills


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *papaya rain*
I think someone needs to email to see if Stacinators are made with Polartec fleece! That would suck for sure! Here is what the site says,

Yes, true. I should take a breath before I jump off the deep end, shouldn't I? Where does Malden Mills get their fleece? How is is manufactured? I'm on the hunt......


----------



## jnmom (Sep 16, 2004)

Polartec and Malden Mills are the same thing. MM owns the Polartec name, or Polar Fleece... but then again lots of people keep saying Polar or Polartec because it's like kleenex or band-aids.

This is certainly an eye opener, but I'm thinking it pales in comparison to the gel used in disposables.


----------



## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Not a fleece question, but what about dyed prefolds? Can anyone say for certain that they don't cause cancer as well? The container of dye says "it contains an ingredient that is known to the state of California to cause cancer". Is this not a risk once they are dyed?

That is just awful. Nothing is safe anymore. I want to throw out everything in my house and start all over again. Damn, I hate what is happening to the planet and our children's (and grandchildren's) future!


----------



## Slingin'Momto4 (Oct 1, 2003)

WOW!! That is very scary, I have never heard of this!!!! I guess I will be buying a whole new set of cast iron pots and pans!!


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jnmom*
Polartec and Malden Mills are the same thing. MM owns the Polartec name, or Polar Fleece... but then again lots of people keep saying Polar or Polartec because it's like kleenex or band-aids.

This is certainly an eye opener, but I'm thinking it pales in comparison to the gel used in disposables.

I just bought 2 Stacinators!









At least I can still use microfleece liners, so far nobody has found anything deadly in THOSE yet.......

........thinking about moving to Idaho and raising my kids in an isolated patch of land with no running water and no eletricity. No tv, no radio, no gasoline fumes.......Dare I dream?????????????


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jnmom*
Polartec and Malden Mills are the same thing.

Not exactly. Polartec is a product made by Malden Mills. I know someone that called them this morning, and they said that their 200 wt. is not treated with anything. So apparently, this problem is with the treated fabrics.

That said... I don't/won't use fleece anyway because I just don't trust what other stuff might be lurking in there!

Yuck.


----------



## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337*
I just bought 2 Stacinators!








At least I can still use microfleece liners, so far nobody has found anything deadly in THOSE yet.......

Hey









I think we still need ALOT more information before jumping to a rash conclusion.. I have been researching this today, and what I can tell is that alot of these fleece covers with a moisture barrier actually contain a PUL laminate within two layers of the fleece, so this tells me that if you (not YOU just in general :LOL) have used and are comfortable using PUL well then.......

I know there are some fleece fabrics treated with water repellants and from what I am seeing these are called *goretex* and I suspect thats the main product they are speaking of in that article.. along with alot of the other repellants such as the scotchguard ect... I mean imagine if you have new carpet in your house! my guess is that that is going to be alot risker than some of this fleece.

I am just not feeling so quick to condemn fleece overall, I do not personally own alot or use a ton (we are 95%wool) but I think its prudent to examine this from all angles ya know? I too have known about non stick cookwear for years being a past bird owner and we use nothing but stainless steel anyhow.. I think the non stick is more of an issue because when you cook with it at a certain temperature it can leach toxins in the air.. that apparently were lethal for birds









As far as I was able to find out today the *windblock* fleeces contain the same PUL membrane.I was mentioning earlier... in fact I pulled a piece out of my fabric stash today to have a look and pulled it apart and there is definately an inner or something in there!

I also know some people treat fleece with a product called nikwax? or what have you and that sounds to me again like it might be in the same family as this repellant..

So I think from my studying this matter today I have concluded that not all fleece products are created equal.. and it might warrant further investigation.. but better than sposies?? heck ya!









I just hope this thread does not leave mamas feeling like they have caused their kiddos irreperable harm or something by way of fleece.. because I think its just waaay preliminary for a statement like that.

To each their own.


----------



## morgainesmama (Sep 1, 2004)

Polartec is the name brand for Malden Mills fleece. There are strict requirements prohibiting small biz to use Polartec in their product description.

Microfleece is the same at 100 wt fleece is the same at 200 or 300 wt fleece -- microfleece has almost identical properties to 200 wt in wamrth, etc., same fabric content, just much denser weave so it's thinner while keeping the wicking properties and warmth.

All MM fleece is manufactured in Lawrence, Mass; it's a good factory that treats its people well. It's the highest quality fleece you can buy. Most polar fleece available is a knockoff of the 200wt or microfleece. Microfleece is no better than 200wt in terms of chemicals, manufacturing, etc.

Windbloc uses a laminate layer for the waterproofing, wicking, windproofing, not a spray.

Windpro is not treated either. It's woven to create water repellant properties, not treated with a spray.

It's still plastic, don't get me wrong -- some of it recycled plastic made from soda bottles.

But just because one person suggests that Polartec is toxic and microfleece is better, doesn't make it true. Just wanted to clarify this misconception.


----------



## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Yeah, I know. I was thinking more slowly about it later today and there's only so much we can do to protect ourselves. Even if we eliminate every trace of toxin in our homes, we're exposed to all kinds of stuff the minute we step into a public place. I've always been suspicious of PUL but do use it (Fuzzi Bunz, prefold covers) but would gladly switch to a nylon or vinyl pull-up if I knew it was chemically safe.

And yes, just about ANYTHING is better than a sposie!


----------



## leosmama20 (May 26, 2004)

Polartec is Malden Mills' trademarked name for fleece. Polartec in no way refers to what type of fleece it is. Malden manufactures several types of micro fleece, 100wt, 200wt...etc. You would need to contact the diaper manufacturer directly to see if they are using a fleece (whatever kind it is) treated with one of these potentially harmful fabrics. Even a microfleece can be treated.

And, not to be snarky, but I think it is very, VERY wrong to single out a cloth diaper maker especially when you don't even know what kind of fleece they are using.

Emily


----------



## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337*
Yeah, I know. I was thinking more slowly about it later today and there's only so much we can do to protect ourselves. Even if we eliminate every trace of toxin in our homes, we're exposed to all kinds of stuff the minute we step into a public place. I've always been suspicious of PUL but do use it (Fuzzi Bunz, prefold covers) but would gladly switch to a nylon or vinyl pull-up if I knew it was chemically safe.

And yes, just about ANYTHING is better than a sposie!

Your so right! funny thing about PUL, is that I read it contains some questionable compounds as well, I have not used it in years because it gives my kids rashes and I find it makes them feel clammy??? but what IS safe then? wool? well think again because not all wool is organic and unprocessed you know? so then we could say only organic wool! :LOL

mmm yummy! but hardly practical or the best choice for all mamas and babes.
Morgainesmama thanks for reiterating was I was trying to say in a slightly more coherant manner.. :LOL


----------



## SEEPAE (Feb 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmuma*
Your so right! funny thing about PUL, is that I read it contains some questionable compounds as well, I have not used it in years because it gives my kids rashes and I find it makes them feel clammy??? but what IS safe then? wool? well think again because not all wool is organic and unprocessed you know? so then we could say only organic wool! :LOL

yeah but then you get into those who cant use wool for allergies/sensitivities and before you know it everyone is naked and running around outside in an organicly grown field using the potty(and thats only those who dont have plant allergies)







: we could keep going :LOL


----------



## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Emily is right....You can treat ANY fleece if you wanted to... My post earlier was just speaking in general/common terms. Most WAHMs would not use microfleece treated with water repellant chemicals (DWR) beacuse then it wouldnt wick properly if it was made water repellant, lol. Sorry for not being clearler


----------



## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SEEPAE*
yeah but then you get into those who cant use wool for allergies/sensitivities and before you know it everyone is naked and running around outside in an organicly grown field using the potty(and thats only those who dont have plant allergies)







: we could keep going :LOL









:







:







:







:
oh man couldn't we? what a sight that would be..


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *morgainesmama*
All MM fleece is manufactured in Lawrence, Mass; it's a good factory that treats its people well. It's the highest quality fleece you can buy. Most polar fleece available is a knockoff of the 200wt or microfleece. Microfleece is no better than 200wt in terms of chemicals, manufacturing, etc.

Actually, the Polartec fabrics are manufactured in China. I remember a while back there were several stories in the news about them moving much of their manufacturing overseas. And this is on the MM site: http://www.maldenmills.com/contentmg...ils.php/id/863

Quote:

Windbloc uses a laminate layer for the waterproofing, wicking, windproofing, not a spray.

Windpro is not treated either. It's woven to create water repellant properties, not treated with a spray.
In addition to being specially woven, both Windbloc and Windpro are treated with DWR. Again from the MM site: http://www.maldenmills.com/contentmg...ils.php/id/214 and http://www.maldenmills.com/contentmg...ils.php/id/214 (All of the Polartec fabric info pages make mention of the durable water repellent outer finish.)


----------



## morgainesmama (Sep 1, 2004)

Hi Melanie! (Good to "see" you!) I stand corrected ... a lot! (Incidentally I knew nothing at all about fleece before talking with you about it this summer ... ) I know there was recently a scare of a strike at their factory in Lawrence, and I've talked so much with the ladies there and been to so many classes they teach, that I thought I had a pretty good handle on their stuff! Turns out they're as misinformed as I.







:

Ok, so those inconsistencies notwithstanding ... I still say they're a good company; they continued paying workers after a fire ravaged their factory several years ago. I know I got the bit about micro vs. 1, 2, and 300 wt right too.

Now to go ponder my beloved Windpro ....


----------



## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Does anyone have any evidence that PUL is safer than certain types of fleece (the ones with an alleged coating?)
Something in my gut tells me that fleece is safer than PUL...

However I just located this!

http://tinyurl.com/4k6l6

So basically according to this article if we condemn one, then we need to condemn the other?

I do have a question though, for the people who are adamantly opposed to the use of fleece due to the *DWR* in some varieties, did you leave repellant coated furniture and carpets in your home?

I am just wondering where one draws the line on ecological responsibility.

Genuinely curious


----------



## AnnMarie (May 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KoalaMama*
Actually, the Polartec fabrics are manufactured in China. I remember a while back there were several stories in the news about them moving much of their manufacturing overseas. And this is on the MM site: http://www.maldenmills.com/contentmg...ils.php/id/863


They have closed two of their mills because of the big fire they had. The others are still open and producing fleece. My ex works at the one in Lawrence and said they are still making fleece with the Polartec name there. They even have a store right there that sells the materials that they make.


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *morgainesmama*
Hi Melanie! (Good to "see" you!) I stand corrected ... a lot! (Incidentally I knew nothing at all about fleece before talking with you about it this summer ... ) I know there was recently a scare of a strike at their factory in Lawrence, and I've talked so much with the ladies there and been to so many classes they teach, that I thought I had a pretty good handle on their stuff! Turns out they're as misinformed as I.







:

Ok, so those inconsistencies notwithstanding ... I still say they're a good company; they continued paying workers after a fire ravaged their factory several years ago. I know I got the bit about micro vs. 1, 2, and 300 wt right too.

Now to go ponder my beloved Windpro ....

Hey Kristi! How are you? Gosh, was it that long ago we had our chat? Wow, time certainly does fly...

I haven't heard anything to suggest MM is a bad company either. And as much as I like products to be made (or not made) in particular countries, I do understand why it is that companies move their manufacturing overseas. It's a sign of the times. (I may not always like it, but I understand it.) Besides, saying that something is MIC doesn't always make it bad.

BTW... No way I would have known that stuff either if I hadn't spent a large chunk of time reading through the MM web site today!


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmuma*
However I just located this!

http://tinyurl.com/4k6l6

So basically according to this article if we condemn one, then we need to condemn the other?

Thank you!!! I was talking to someone about this article today, but couldn't find it in my links. I had read it ages ago, and some of this information was nagging in the back of my mind and probably laid the foundation for my "no-fleece" rule.

And I have no problem condemning both if that's the right choice (which I believe it is). Unfortunately, this means I have to give up some products that I really, really love.

Quote:

I do have a question though, for the people who are adamantly opposed to the use of fleece due to the *DWR* in some varieties, did you leave repellant coated furniture and carpets in your home?

I am just wondering where one draws the line on ecological responsibility.
I'm not sure about my couch, but I suspect it might have been treated. We're thinking of having it re-upholstered in any case. I do have one carpet in my living room, but am planning to get rid of it within the next week or so. I just need to get some washable rugs to throw down in it's place.

Today I went through the bathrooms and researched all of our bath/body products - eek! - and I'll be listing our non-stick bake ware on Freecycle with a disclaimer about why. (Unfortunately, Adam bought me a whole set of this stuff for Christmas! Wish I'd read all this two weeks ago before I pulled the labels off everything.)

Also implementing new "rules" about eco-friendly clothing, organic foods, getting rid of as many paper products as possible, moving to natural cleaners, etc.

So yeah, I'm making moves to detoxify my home in whatever ways I can.


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

More things to worry about. Did you know that the air has more polluntants in it then any fleece could ever compare?


----------



## Lizzie3143 (Feb 27, 2003)

gosh kathleen i love you!


----------



## elyice (Apr 7, 2003)

I am in shock. All I use are chemical laden cloth diapers. Malden Mills Fleece with PUL. Should I have just used sposies?????
I know the answer, just venting out loud.


----------



## Boobiemama (Oct 2, 2002)

Well, since there are so many harmful things in the cloth diapers we use, lets just all use disposables to avoid that. (roll eyes here)

Oh pleassssseeee.........


----------



## girlfactory (Nov 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teddybearmom*
Not a fleece question, but what about dyed prefolds? Can anyone say for certain that they don't cause cancer as well? The container of dye says "it contains an ingredient that is known to the state of California to cause cancer". Is this not a risk once they are dyed?

That is just awful. Nothing is safe anymore. I want to throw out everything in my house and start all over again. Damn, I hate what is happening to the planet and our children's (and grandchildren's) future!


I live in Texas, so I guess I'm safe from cancer in dyes


----------



## lovemygirl (Feb 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KoalaMama*
Not exactly. Polartec is a product made by Malden Mills. I know someone that called them this morning, and they said that their 200 wt. is not treated with anything. So apparently, this problem is with the treated fabrics.

That said... I don't/won't use fleece anyway because I just don't trust what other stuff might be lurking in there!

Yuck.


Delurking to say that actually...it depends... Malden Mills makes tons of fleece products. Some have the DWR on them and some do not. What makes the fleece covers water (pee) resistant is this DWR coating... and actually some microfleece has it on it as well. The buyer must specifially request the fleece not have the DWR on it or buy some that doesn't have it on it, but then, the fleece would not repel. Lands End and LL Bean and many many other clothing manufacturers make clothing using Malden Mills fleece or a polar fleece that has DWR on it.

I have purchased fleece from Malden many times and sometimes I get fleece with DWR and sometimes I do not; it depends on what the fleece is being used for.

I think though, at least for me that its far better than the risk disposables pose to babies health. Let's face it everything has risks. Heck the computer you use to type on offgases too from the plastic that it is made from... I don't see any natural fiber computers coming out anytime soon...







or the plastic/PVCs in the cars we drive etc. The pipes in my house that are PVC that carry my water... Its everywhere though. I am not saying that I like it but I don't see anyway to avoid some of these things. So for me, I am not going to freak out over fleece or avoid it.

JMHO.


----------



## saharasky (Dec 20, 2002)

It's all about making educated and informed choices ... there are benefits and risks to most things ...and each of us individuallly have to weigh them out to determine what path we choose to take. What I appreciate about this article being posted here is that it puts more information on the table allowing each of us to make a more informed choice. No one has to run out and sell all their fleece diapering products but at least now those who read the article can weigh the options with a bit of knowledge to back them up (either way).


----------



## bratmobile (Jun 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlfactory*
I live in Texas, so I guess I'm safe from cancer in dyes










damn. i guess i'm screwed. can we come live with you?

:LOL


----------



## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

Sometimes I think it's better NOT to know. I mean, here we are, a group of mamas doing what many would consider an insane sacrifice to keep our kids away from any nasties lurking in disposables (though we all have our different reasons and there's debate about sposies, too







) - and yet we're faced with info that may mean some of our "safe" stuff isn't. Just how "safe" can you get? Not very, in this day and age, I think. My guess is that there's *something* bad in *everything*, whether it's carcinogenic french fries or bugs crawling on my brussel sprouts - or chemicals in fabrics in my beloved diapers.

Anyhow, I personally love SEEPAE's theories about how to get away from everything.







: I'm personally content to say, "Oh, well," and just do the best I can. At some point, the effort is just NOT worth the reward.


----------



## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Heather--I totally agree with you.

This whole thing just makes me sick to think about. I hate that some of us are feeling bad because we feel like we are doing something wrong by using fleece, or PUL, or anything non-organic. I think we are doing the best that we can. It is crazy for me to think of switching to all organic clothing for my kids (not to mention DH and me). My in-laws send us a lot of our kids clothing so we take what they give us (and much of that is fleece!). My diapers include a mixture of fleece, pul, and wool and it is going to stay that way. Almost everything in this world has something bad about it, whether it be cleaning supplies, art supplies, the furniture we use, the pots and pans we use or our diapers. It is very saddening to think about but we just have to do our best with the info we are given.


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:

Let's face it everything has risks. Heck the computer you use to type on offgases too from the plastic that it is made from... I don't see any natural fiber computers coming out anytime soon... or the plastic/PVCs in the cars we drive etc. The pipes in my house that are PVC that carry my water... Its everywhere though. I am not saying that I like it but I don't see anyway to avoid some of these things.
Actually, some computer and television manufacturers are making steps to change the plastics that they use in their products so that it isn't an issue. Sony is one example. Find out more here: http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/Products/Toxics/index.cfm

I know it's hard to avoid everything that's bad for us, but there are things that can be changed if you want. There are (almost) always alternatives... In the case of diapers, it's use wool, or only use covers when you absolutely have to, or go diaper free! Regarding clothing, you can buy used to save on the environmental impact and buy organic if/when you can. You can use glass, cast iron, or stainless steel instead of non-stick, you can make different choices for when you *have* to replace things... and on it goes.

Not saying everyone should toss their fleece diapers, but just because bad things are everywhere doesn't mean we should all throw in the towel and not try to change anything. Yes, ignorance is bliss, but making a choice to change something in your life for the better is very empowering!


----------



## lestouffer (Jul 2, 2002)

Naked in an organic field for all of us! Sorry to those with plant allergies, no party for you!

You guys make me laugh....


----------



## sweetladyaz (Aug 27, 2003)

umm.... this is news? I mean, I thought everyone understood that fleece and PUL are both plastics? I mean, it's definitely not natural or organic.

And as stated before, it's hard to get around these things. Winter coats, gloves, clothes, diaper covers, blankets, fabrics, baby bottles, shampoo bottles.... it's everywhere nowadays.









Sorry, just my two cents on it.


----------



## Aherne (Jun 26, 2003)

This is not a new revelation. (search the threads, some brilliant moms or those with brilliant husbands have beat this subject to death for us too)

PUL or fleece are not going to kill you.

But before you burn it... PM me for my address


----------



## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

Wow! I think this thread pops up about every 3 months or so.

Yes, fleece is plastic. Yeah, plastic isn't wonderful stuff. Okay. Well, some people don't use wool, can't use wool, etc. Wool, if not organic, is usually treated with chemicals too. The sheep are dipped in insecticides that can be quite toxic, and the wool itself is processed.

At one point, I wanted my whole house to be organic. I wanted all organic cotton clothing for us, all organic diapers, no plastics, no plastic toys, etc. Then I realized that I can't purchase my goods in glass bottles. My organic shampoo comes in a plastic bottle. I step out my front door and breathe in toxic fumes.... exhaust, etc.

Then, I go to my friends house... it's cold out... he has a fire going in the fire place.... it's wood, so it's safe, right? Nope. That fire in the fire place can cause cancer faster than my fleece coat.

I would look at more stuff.... soda, poor eating (no, mac and cheese is NOT healthy!), the new carpet, the car you drive, when and where you drive (exhaust is worse for your babe to breathe than many, many things that we stay away from), cleaning supplies, etc.

If you want to prevent cancer, your best defense is a healthy diet. There is so much debate on what is healthy, but I think as close to natural with as little processed foods, and as much veggie matter as possible is a good start. Drop the soda altogether.

If you walk by a person who is smoking, your baby probably just breathed in more toxic fumes in that few seconds than he/she would ever get from using fleece and PUL. Same goes for a campfire and bbq.

Did you know that BBQing puts serious gasses into the air that are very toxic for you to breathe? The fat that drips into the fire actually creates a carcinogen. Wow, and we thought BBQing was natural!

Even some of those nice wood toys might be coated with polyurithane, etc. Same stuff as PUL. They could be coated with more nasty stuff than that.

Where do you draw the line?

Teri


----------



## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:

Not a fleece question, but what about dyed prefolds? Can anyone say for certain that they don't cause cancer as well? The container of dye says "it contains an ingredient that is known to the state of California to cause cancer". Is this not a risk once they are dyed?
Only if you live in California.

For real... no. There is the most minute trace amounts of a dangerous chemical that can cause cancer. It is released into the air while the person dying the garment is dying. So, the person doing the actual dying is at risk if they don't use a ventilated area, dye often (very often), and don't use a mask, etc.

What isn't evaporated out of the garments, is washed out and evaporated in the hot wash. So, dyed garments are quite safe to the best of my knowledge. I looked into this extensively before dying stuff.

Teri


----------



## Rebecca (Dec 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *morgainesmama*
Polartec is the name brand for Malden Mills fleece. There are strict requirements prohibiting small biz to use Polartec in their product description.

Microfleece is the same at 100 wt fleece is the same at 200 or 300 wt fleece -- microfleece has almost identical properties to 200 wt in wamrth, etc., same fabric content, just much denser weave so it's thinner while keeping the wicking properties and warmth.

All MM fleece is manufactured in Lawrence, Mass; it's a good factory that treats its people well. It's the highest quality fleece you can buy. Most polar fleece available is a knockoff of the 200wt or microfleece. Microfleece is no better than 200wt in terms of chemicals, manufacturing, etc.

Windbloc uses a laminate layer for the waterproofing, wicking, windproofing, not a spray.

Windpro is not treated either. It's woven to create water repellant properties, not treated with a spray.

It's still plastic, don't get me wrong -- some of it recycled plastic made from soda bottles.

But just because one person suggests that Polartec is toxic and microfleece is better, doesn't make it true. Just wanted to clarify this misconception.

Malden Mills specifically labels its products that contain DWR as having DWR. Rest assured that your Stacinators and other MM fleece products don't contain this chemical unless they are specifically labeled as having such.

And it ISN'T the DWR in fleece that makes it water-repellent... it is the hydrophobic nature of polyester fibers. DWR can inhance the repellency though.

What about flame-retardant clothing? Gortex outerwear? Teflon-coated rain coats? Like Teri said, so many pollutants are more dangerous than wearing fleece/PUL, both of which are much more inert than say, your off-gassing made-in-china shoes and whatever mattress you sleep on all night. And since much of MM fleece is recycled soda bottles, are you all avoiding drinking any liquid that comes bottled in a recyclable bottle? It seems logical that the phosphoric acid found in sodas would cause more plastic polymer leaching than wearing an article of clothing.


----------



## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rebecca*
What about flame-retardant clothing? Gortex outerwear? Teflon-coated rain coats? Like Teri said, so many pollutants are more dangerous than wearing fleece/PUL, both of which are much more inert than say, your off-gassing made-in-china shoes and whatever mattress you sleep on all night. And since much of MM fleece is recycled soda bottles, are you all avoiding drinking any liquid that comes bottled in a recyclable bottle? It seems logical that the phosphoric acid found in sodas would cause more plastic polymer leaching than wearing an article of clothing.

If I pinch my finger in a drawer it hurts. If I cut it off with a knife, it hurts more. So should I run around slamming my finger in drawers because I know it's not as bad as cutting it off?

I understand the point that not everyone wants to/can throw out xyz product, and as long as it's an informed choice I really don't think the reason matters. But I don't get this argument that there are worse things out there so we shouldn't be concerned about the less-bad stuff.


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~* (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamingMama*
More things to worry about. Did you know that the air has more polluntants in it then any fleece could ever compare?

No kidding Kathleen..

this is almost as shocking as DHMO (dihydrogen monoxide) being linked to so many deaths.. this is scarey stuff! http://www.dhmo.org/







: this chemical is everywhere! No one is safe


----------



## lisabc311 (May 18, 2003)

Okay, the more I read in this thread the sicker I feel....auuggghh!!!!

Yes, there are dangerous chemicals everywhere. But I personally feel that avoiding the ones that I can is the best that I can do!

I'm not throwing in the towel. I'm doing what I can....and maybe as a result my family and I will be exposed to less of these chemicals. Every little bit counts.


----------

