# Snack or starve - what do you do when your kids won't eat dinner?



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've got a 4-year-old doing this lately. She claims she isn't hungry, and then as soon as I've cleaned up after dinner, she claims she's starving and needs something to eat. It's driving me crazy. I don't want her to suffer, but I don't want her to replace healthy meals with (reasonably healthy, but not as healthy) snack food.

What would you do or have you done?


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

Save a plate of dinner. When she says she's hungry, offer that to her.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I did that with my 11-year-old at this age, but it becomes a huge battle of wills. I'd love to find something to do that doesn't devolve into a power struggle, but I realize that my dream might not exist. Sigh!


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

It really depends on the age and the food offerred. We don't force eating but she would need us at the table. And the food would stay out for awhile. Snacks per se would be offerred but we do whole milk yogurt before bed usually so I know whe wouldn't be starving in her sleep. We ususally leave the leftovers out for awhile and sometimes the kids return to dinner right before they go to bed at 7., We also allow other, fairly boring options before bed and someone claims to be hugry like toast with butter or string cheese.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

I know reheated food isn't as nutritious but as part of the later meal you could insist on veggies and proteins like hard-boiled eggs. That alone might get some t 4-year-olds to stop being so wishy washy. Whatever the consequence is, it needs to be consistent.

I don't like to start enforcing rules unless I'm sure I can be consistent which would never happen when it comes to food anyways because whenever my son is sick he just gets really finnicky. But he is two.

If I had a whole gang of kids, I would probably go ahead and enforce rules for the sake of sanity/ability to keep everything running. Right now I have the luxury of giving in to my mommy instincts pretty much whenever I feel like it.

There is no one right answer.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I would also save a plate of dinner and not engage in a conversation. When my DD was six we had a significant drop in income and the leftover dinner was literally all we had most of the time. Working in preschool where there are not choices I have found that kids eat best when they are slightly hungry, all the food goes on their plate, everyone sits for fifteen minutes before seconds are served, and teachers stay completely uninvolved in the children's decision to eat or not. Truly and completely uninvolved is hard for some people but it really works wonders.


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## Cathlin (Apr 4, 2012)

Mealtimes are important to us, and they can't snack right before and they have to eat some of everything served. If they don't "finish" (don't need to clean the plate, but need to have a bit of everything) then they don't get to eat the next meal til they do. So they'll have dinner for breakfast. It's a gratitude issue.


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## amber3902 (Dec 2, 2011)

I offer the reward of desert as an incentive to eat their food. If they don't eat all their food and are hungry later, they only get crackers to eat.

But if they eat all their food and are still hungry later on they can get whatever they want to eat. I also try to serve age appropriate portions so they're not overwhelmed.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *demeter888*
> 
> I know reheated food isn't as nutritious


It's not?? I'm super curious about this.

Mamazee, if a kid isn't hungry at dinner, but is hungry right after, I'll offer dinner. Maybe I'll offer one alternative (which would also have come up when she turned down dinner in the first place). I sometimes get decent mileage out of asking for proposals - "What would you like to eat, keeping in mind that you can't have treats until you've had dinner?" - and I can often arrange to tack a vegetable on to something the kid says she's willing to consume. (Yes, you may have microwave tacquitos for dinner, if you also have three greenbeans. You may not have chocolate milk until dessert.)


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Our 3yo does this often as well. We use the It's Not About Nutrition blog approach. If she doesn't want her dinner she may have plain yoghurt (the blog author uses cottage cheese). She often chooses this option.

If the dinner is something I know she usually enjoys then I keep it for the next day. If it was something new or something she's equivocal about then I don't keep it.


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## EarthyLady (Jul 15, 2005)

I've never heard that reheated food is less nutritious. Granted anything coming from a microwave is going to be less nutritious, but not if you reheat in the oven or on the stove.

We offer 3 square meals a day and no snacks...usually. Due to tooth decay issues, I can no longer allow grazing. So when it's time to eat, they are usually hungry enough to eat whatever is put in front of them. However, if one of my kids (I have 4) don't want it, then it can be saved for later, or breakfast, whatever. Now if I were to make something that they just didnt' like, then I wouldn't force it. I don't make food they don't like, so that's not the issue.

But, not eating dinner, then wanting something later would get them their dinner plate back.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I also try to solve this type of problem by having a regular alternative. You could have a standing dinner alternative that meets your definition of a balanced meal and is at-the-ready. You could have a regular pre-bed snacktime that she has to wait for if she doesn't eat supper. Is she complaining that she doesn't like the food, or just claiming not to be hungry?


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## Maria Van (Apr 12, 2012)

i don't make a big deal about it, but my 3 year old does not get to snack if he hasn't eaten a meal. whatever he didn;t eat gets saved until the next meal, if he's hungry he can have his plate back, but at the next meal we move on. I never make substitute food because i feel like that opns the door to a grilled cheese sandwich at every meal for who knows how long. I make one meal for the whole house, he eats what he wants, i don't fight about it, just don't give treats until the real food is eaten.


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## LeighPF (Jan 20, 2010)

We have a big snack mid afternoon and dinner later. We make sure that there is something on the table my four year old likes (thank you Ellen Satter). If he eats a reasonable amount, he can have a snack later if he likes. If not we remind him once that this is the food that I made, he can choose to take it or leave it, but there will be nothing else. If I think it will be an issue, I keep the plate on the counter for a bit and he has asked for it to be heated up or eaten it. He has also not and thrown a fit (which is so four).

My rule with kids generally is that you need to say the same thing 10000 times before it starts to sink in and they realize you mean it. It has taken a few months, but now he gets it.

We do this for the rest of the day too. You can eat this now, or not. The next food is at X (lunch, afternoon snack etc). No emotion, no fuss, just this is.


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## RachS (May 13, 2007)

To me a power struggle means parent is allowing the child to argue and the parent if arguing back. There is no need for this. My daughter knows (she is now 6), you eat what is on your plate, or you don't eat. Its not a power struggle. Its a simple rule. If she were to throw a fit about it, she would go to her room. Once a child sees a rule consistently enforced, its not a struggle. I never force my daughter to eat (although I do make her taste everything). If she chooses not to eat, thats ok, but other options will not be given. If you explain this to your four year old in a kind and simple manner, then enforce it, she will catch on really fast. Maybe she won't take you seriously the first night, but she will after that.

Also, make sure you aren't giving her any snacks in the couple of hours prior to dinner. Make sure she is hungry when dinner time arrives. Try offering some healthy preferred foods the first few times try out this new plan. Also, allowing your child to help plan the menu as well as helping to prepare the food and table settings may make her want to eat with the family.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Earthylady*
> 
> I've never heard that reheated food is less nutritious. Granted anything coming from a microwave is going to be less nutritious


This one is news to me too. Seriously, where's this coming from? We do most of our cooking on weekends, and pack it up to microwave on week nights so that we can feed the kids after work, but before they melt down.


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## Moonridden (Mar 12, 2012)

Eating is pretty casual in my family, partly because I feel like my upbringing contributed to my later struggles with food and body issues. I offer a couple of choices at mealtimes. Unfinished food is saved, and if someone gets hungry later, that's what is offered. Life is way too short to get into power struggles over eating. I don't bribe with desserts, mostly because the concept of 'put more food in your stomach than you want to, and _then_ you can have some empty calories to put on top of it' makes no sense to me.


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> This one is news to me too. Seriously, where's this coming from? We do most of our cooking on weekends, and pack it up to microwave on week nights so that we can feed the kids after work, but before they melt down.


isn't it obvious that it is most nutritious (and yummy) when fresh?

not that we always eat fresh either, but we know it has lost something over time.


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## Pinkbruise (Jul 8, 2005)

My rule is "you may have this, or you may make yourself a sandwich or an apple". Even for my 3 yo.

They have to try 1 bite before they declare they don't like it and won't eat it. My 7 yo usually then discovers that it is delicious and asks for seconds.

If they still won't eat I give them water and off to bed with the promise of a big breakfast.

They will eat it they are hungry. My boys area little overweight so I don't worry one bit about them getting some they like to eat or not.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

IMO, this is not the real question. If you offer food and the kid is hungry, they won't starve. I can assure you of that.

I don't believe many of us have seen starving kids. I don't think this can compare with kids who ask: oh, I won't eat my broccoli, I want a cookie instead. Or: I don't like sauce on my pasta, I want it on the side.

With my 4 y/o, we don't have the option of dinner or snack. It just never was offered. We also don't have a snack about two hours before dinner, so my kids are hungry (but not famished) when I call them for dinner, and they are happy to come to the table.

With my 8 y/o, I can reason more. I tell him: don't have a snack just before dinner, I don't want you to ruin your appetite. And: please make sure you are not hungry when you leave the table, I'm not setting the table again tonight. So he understands and eats as much or as little as he is hungry for.

I think that they benefit most by having a meal structure, but not strict rules. Not eating whatever, whenever, but also, not being forced to have X number of bites, or no dessert unless you eat your vegetables. I think there is a happy medium between the two.

The parent is responsible for which foods to offer, where and when to eat.

The kid is responsible for what foods to eat, and how much.

It works out pretty well for us.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rumi*
> 
> isn't it obvious that it is most nutritious (and yummy) when fresh?
> 
> not that we always eat fresh either, but we know it has lost something over time.


There are actually a lot of soups and stews that improve with a little age (like, 1-3 days), and are tastier on reheating then they were in the first place. And I know that some vitamin content is lost when you cook vegetables, regardless of cooking method. But if, say, we make a big batch of chicken tikka masala on Sunday, and sling some into the microwave on Wednesday, I don't think there's a nutritional difference between that serving, and the serving eaten straight from the cooking pot on Sunday, and I don't think there would be a nutritional difference between putting that serving into a pot on the stove and putting that serving into a bowl in the microwave.

I tend to be pretty minimal on cooking vegetables, and some of those do suffer a lot from reheating (limp broccoli, yeuch), but I'll hand that over cold.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> It's not?? I'm super curious about this.


Here is just a quick reference about food nutrition loss from cooking off the internet:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/processing#cooking

Not my favorite source but it conveys the point: the more heat a food is subjected to the more nutrients it tends to lose. That site is not very reliable tho... One exception is a nutrient found in tomatoes and a few others. So, yeah the fresher and more local the food the better.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeepyCat*
> 
> This one is news to me too. Seriously, where's this coming from? We do most of our cooking on weekends, and pack it up to microwave on week nights so that we can feed the kids after work, but before they melt down.


I was going to say the link below explains why microwaving isn't great, but then I actually ready the article. LOL The last time I read about any of this was few years ago.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/Microwave-cooking-and-nutrition.shtml

Either way, I still microwave veggies often because I am too busy to prepare them on the stove. That and we just eat raw when possible. If it weren't for nukers we'd have far fewer veggies on the table.


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## AutumnLili (Feb 16, 2011)

In our home, we have decided that eating is simply not a big deal. I think this all started with nursing my children on demand. Whenever they were hungry, even if it felt off to me (too much, too little), I obliged! When they started eating solids, it just made sense to us to keep that same attitude. I think the real question should be why is your snack food not considered worthy of a meal?

Most of the time, we eat very healthy foods and we give our son a lot of opportunities to express his wants and preferences. For example, breakfast here is generally one of 4 options: oatmeal, eggs in various forms, fruit and yogourt parfaits, or a smoothie. Sometimes we have organic cereal but we don't often have milk in the fridge, so that is very limited as well. Every morning my 3 yr old choses what he wants to eat and the quantity he eats varies greatly. Some days, he'll have 2 eggs and 2 toasts (no kidding!). Others, he won't even finish 1 egg and leaves his toast. We think of it as encouraging him to be in tune with his body, and to eat as much or as little as he feels he needs. If I think he hasn't eaten quite enough and I have the time, I offer him an all-fruit smoothie to take to daycare with him. He never turns down a smoothie LOL!

It's the same for dinner really. Some days I'll make a full sit-down dinner (like shepherd's pie with salad), some days we all snack for dinner (a plate of strawberries, cucumbers, cheese, boiled eggs, hummus, etc) when the kids are playing outside and no one wants to go in or stop to eat.

If he doesn't want to eat *what* we're eating, we respect that and always try to encourage him to have a taste. He never wants to at first but often comes around and has a bite, which he doesn't like. We praise him for trying and move on.

If he doesn't want to eat *when* we're eating, we allow him to eat later in the evening when he is hungry. At that point, we offer any of the fresh, whole food we have in the house - never junk food, rarely processed food like crackers or bread. Most of the time, he wants a piece of fruit, which I will never refuse, and try to give him a few nuts to eat along side it to regulate his blood sugar before bedtime. Besides, don't experts claim that eating smaller meals consisting of fresh, whole foods more frequently during the day is the healthiest was to eat?

I've struggled my whole life with food and food-related issues, and frankly, one of my biggest pet peeves is how much importance our society places on food. Food as a celebration, food as a reward, food as comfort, food as an activity... the list goes on and on! The dinner table doesn't have to be the end all, be all of family life!

Point is, I wouldn't worry about it. Just make sure you only offer fresh, whole foods and it will not matter when or how your child eats it!


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pinkbruise*
> 
> My rule is "you may have this, or you may make yourself a sandwich or an apple". Even for my 3 yo.
> 
> ...


I do this, exactly. The reason I give for having to try a bite is that their tongues are growing and one day they will like foods that they didn't before. My daughter who is 9 was super, super selective about what she would and wouldn't eat for a while, but this strategy got her through it and she even takes some pride in being brave enough to try new foods.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

One of my kids has sensory issues that include food issues, and my other kid has some food sensitivities that have caused her to be a picky eater. When they were 4ish, we always had simple things on hand, like yogurt and fruit, that they could have instead of dinner.

Parts of my parenting are based on doing the opposite of my patents. They had major control issues with food, and my sister and I both have issues with food. So I just decided to keep all the options in our house healthy and not get worked up over what they eat. I later added the caveat that I will not be a short order cook!


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## inconditus (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm a green smoothie fanatic so that is the only alternative for me, H, and most likely LO when/if she starts being a fussy eater. We have a good blender so it takes like 2 minutes. It has veggies (whatever leafy green on hand), fruit, and protein (milk and maybe PB). Pretty balanced in my book and not a huge issue to make if dinner doesn't turn out/isn't palatable to someone.


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## rachelann1 (Dec 2, 2007)

We used to reward our 5 year old with a small dessert if he ate a good dinner, but this turned into a power struggle. We started to have a "How many more bites do I need to eat" negotiation, which drove us nuts. So we discontinued all treats, except on Friday. If he claims he is not hungry at dinner, we don't force him to eat, but we don't prepare him anything different (as long as it was something we expect him to enjoy). We save the dinner until he wants it. If we make something he doesn't like (if it's accidentally too spicy or something) we have peanut butter and jelly for him, which he always likes. No power struggle. Your child won't go hungry by his/her own will. They figure it out soon enough.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

As a parent, it's my job to see that healthy food is served/available at reasonable times. This includes breakfast, lunch, and dinner served about 4-5 hours apart. Depending on age, morning and afternoon snacks are available midway between meals and consist of fruit, whole grains, and/or dairy. Water is available at all times. Milk is served for breakfast unless we are having a spicy meal for dinner. Juice is a rare occasion. My children's job was to eat what and how much of what I served. If they insist that they are truly hungry, fruit is offered. If they turn down fruit in favor of junk food, I figure that they really aren't hunger but just need something that they are interpreting to be hunger. My attention, a suggestion of what to do next, etc. If nothing I suggest is accepted, then they are allowed to deal with the problem themselves.


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## ada1 (May 13, 2008)

It might help, or not (each case is different), but this is what we do:

We do allow fresh fruit and veggies ANYtime, even 5min. before dinner, even if it "spoils" their appetites. How do you spoil an appetite with healthy food? I consider it equivalent to the "salad" that some adults eat at the beginning of dinner. Fill up on the healthy, have less room for the sugary/salty/starchy -- it is a great deal! If they get hungry 5min. after dinner -- guess what snacks might just be available?

We rely on the power of hunger, and the kids' desire to be self-sufficient. Baby carrots and "broccoli feet" (the stems) taste delicious when a kid (or myself) is hungry. I leave acceptable snacks in the fridge or on the kitchen table, such as veggies, nuts, cheese sticks, or sliced fruit, and the kids love to wander in and help themselves. Note, this became easier after I cleared out the fridge crap -- the chocolate yogurt, the leftover cake, the chocolate milk, the lemonade. Now, unless they want to dig into the squash casserole, baked beans, or the raw onions, they have to pick snacks I leave for them. But they have choices. And they know that, if they don't finish what they started, they need to put it back in the fridge so it doesn't spoil.

(Side note -- I loathed being in the kitchen around the clock, serving kids and cleaning up after their crumble-making butts. I used to spend my WHOLE day there, either prepping, feeding or cleaning up, then the cycle would start all over again for the next meal. I do want them to be nourished, but I have no desire to be their waiter for 12 hours out of 24, especially when they didn't get hungry simultaneously. Snack-wise, they got self-sufficient when the oldest was three or four, and got strong enough to pull the fridge door open. Now, we have time for counting games and reading books, and if it's not a designated meal time, they take care of their snacking by themselves, then come back to play or read.)

Additionally, when I cook something "iffy", I involve them in the cooking process. Not to say that they clear their plates as a result (I wouldn't want them to feel like they have to anyway), but it increases the chances of them taking a bite from that squash casserole or the baked chicken-and-salsa. If nothing else, we do the guess-the-spice game (for example, they can smell rosemary when it is fresh, but can they recognize the scent on the baked potatoes?)

I guess I want them to be fed, and be adventurous about food. When they turn their noses up at some new dish, I encourage them to at least SMELL it. A kids' nose is finer than that of an adult, anyway. Because much of our appetite is aided by the sense of smell, I consider the sniff test to be the first step, instead of the obligation to take a bite. (As an adult, if something smells repulsive to me, why the hell would I want to take "just one bite, one single bite, dearie?" Conversely, if it looks ugly but smells like heaven, like some casseroles do, I might be tempted into tasting it.)

HTH. As they say, your mileage may vary. Good luck to you!


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## blessedbyblues (Oct 11, 2012)

We eat a grain-free, organic, whole foods diet, so whatever I have in the house is okay for LO to eat. He's on the spectrum and we previously restricted dairy, but now he eats local, raw milk cheese, drinks grassfed, raw milk, and enjoys an almost daily serving of local grassfed yogurt. Sometimes, he will only drink a glass of milk or have yogurt with salt and pepper for dinner, and ask for meat or veg later. His small, growing body is obviously on a different hunger-energy burning cycle than our bodies. He sometimes eats six good sized meals in a day, and other times I am "lucky" to get two snacks in him.

I try to remove the struggle and my own childhood conditioning about food, let him eat when he's hungry, and allow him a pass when he isn't. I allow him Larabars (or the homemade equivalent) only when he needs quick energy when we are out of the house. That cuts down the requests for snacks in place of actual meals. He will only eat chicken in the form of legs on the bone, or cooked in small pieces. He likes burger patties, broccoli, and tomato salad as a favorite meal, so I find I default to that for lunch about three times a week. Paleo pancakes and chickpea pancakes are fun and nutritious for him, and easy enough to prepare that I don't usually mind putting them on the side of whatever meal I make. I readily admit to sneaking extra vegetables into sauce and soup when he's in a picky stage, and I also help my cause by adding coconut oil, grassfed butter, or veg to mashed potatoes or a smoothie when he is just being stubborn about not eating, yet I can hear his stomach growling (he has some disorder-related control issues). We live in north Florida so we have access to fresh local produce all year. I think my feeding plan might be a little different if we move somewhere else.


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## mommatodee (Jul 23, 2005)

My younger daughter did this for awhile. She would sit down to dinner and seem, all of a sudden, to not have an appetite only to ask for a "snack" afterwards. What we discovered, through some processing with her, is that she was overwhelmed by a full plate of food in front of her. Once we started serving her much smaller portions, or even one thing at a time, she ate much better and now she only occasionally asks for some yogurt before bed, which I'm ok with.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I was kinda bendy on this issue for littles. But once they were physically capable of making their own PB and J or getting their own bowl of cereal, I figured the "one meal for all" was best for us and my sanity. Like most kids, they would have eaten a constant stream of plain chicken with a side of carrots. I and my hubby, need a little variety. And strangely, most of the time they ate what I served, they were simply to lazy to make their own dinner and would try what I had prepared.


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## MissAnthrope (Jan 31, 2011)

At 4, it is totally normal for kids to "graze". We have a 3.5yo and a 2.5yo right now ourselves, so we are deep in the grazing valley! To cut down on waste and my own frustration, I serve them small portions-- sometimes they have seconds, thirds, and fourths, and sometimes they barely touch what's on the plate to start with. In the latter case, I leave their food out until we start cleaning up for bedtime, and they almost always return to the table and eat more, albeit slowly over the course of the evening. In my experience, lots of kids-- even most-- settle down and start eating bigger meals at more regular times at age 5-7, as long as that's the eating pattern modeled by the other people in the household.

It's also totally normal for little kids to reject offered things (dinner, bath, etc.) as a way to experiment with their growing independence. When my smalls reject dinner, I offer a set of cold food alternatives: yogurt and granola, cheese, bread, nuts, fruit, pickles (beet, cucumber, or carrot). That way I don't expend extra effort on their meals, because I've already made dinner. They usually accept one of the options, and often when they've finished their alternative food they eat their dinner-- which is what tells me it's an independence thing, because it's not that they don't want dinner, it's that they want to be in control.

I also don't worry about striving deliberately for balanced eating. I figure that, in the presence of good choices and the absence of bad examples, children will eat what their bodies tell them to eat-- which, for kids under 5, often means lots of dairy, fats, proteins, and starches (they are growing really quickly, after all, and their brains are still developing), but also lots of fresh fruit and pickled veggies. If there's something I really want them to try, the best way to achieve that is to serve it only for myself and make no comment to them about it; they quickly ask for a taste, and then usually some for themselves.


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## brennag (Aug 3, 2006)

my 6 yr old is like that all day long. I ask him if he's done eating & remind him that this is meal time & his last chance to eat for the night or till the next meal. He often wants to eat later, depending on how much he ate sometime I tell him no & he'll have to wait for the next meal or morning or I let him have something that needs minimal prep like a bowl of cereal, an apple or carrots. It doesn't always work but it's a constant struggle for me & I have to pick & choose my battles & minimize my load at the same time. I know for my son if he doesn't eat enough he will not fall asleep an I don't want that either.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

mamazee, what time is dinner?

Do you think she really isn't hungry right then? Maybe move dinner later by 30 minutes or so.

If you think she is skirting dinner entirely, no matter the time, and it is driving you crazy, then set aside some dinner to serve when she is hungry.

If you still want the family mealtime, insist that she sits with the family, even if she isn't hungry. No big deal, but let's talk about our day! Have her pick some flowers from the garden to place on the table, pretty the table up. Use the wine glasses to drink fizzy apple juice from. Sing a thank you song, make a toast, light some candles, make a wish when you blow them out. Have some stock questions that always get asked as a way to get the conversation going. Make sure dinner is about light conversation, not lectures.

It seems like making a snack instead of dinner, or making different things with dinner bothers everyone but me. I don't feel like it's a big deal.


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## moonjunio (Feb 1, 2009)

To me it sounds like "not hungry" means "I don't want what you served," if she's asking for a snack right after you clear up. Snacks are so much easier to like!

We went through something like this around age 2 with DD1. We were firm about meal times, and would let her know multiple times that dinner was her last chance to eat...when mommy and daddy are done eating, it's too late for the kid to start eating. I only offered milk if she refused dinner and threw a fit later. Reheated (or cold, whatever) dinner might actually work fine for you, but we eat late, bed is usually just minutes later so our DD didn't have a long hungry evening. Whatever it is, it should be extremely low effort and not too interesting. Talking about the rule should be matter-of-fact and not too terribly interesting either.

Anyway, this was our DD's major phase of limit testing in general, and I think she just needed to "check" that we really would stick to the mealtime rule.

Ellyn Satter does have great tips, she is my guru. For instance, serve at least one easy-to-like food, then as best you can, try not to care about how much or -whether- she eats, as long as it's at a designated meal time. So simple but it takes serious parental discipline to just serve good food and "lay off." According to Satter kids eat better in the long run when they sense that their parents aren't eyeballing their plate. I'm still working on it, I need to stop nagging them to eat enough of their chicken, but they are rarely picky so something must be going right.

TLDR version - give boring leftovers or a drink, not a nice "snacky yummy" food and remind them to eat with the family next time.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

There are so many variables with food, meal time, preferences, and snacks vs meals. I agree, simply making somethings a Rule, instead of arguing or negotiating it, is more effective. That worked particularly well with homework and the after school routine: the rule is no tv on school nights. No more of, Mom reminds the kids over and over to turn the tv off and do homework. It's simply the house rule. I know, this might be obvious to some but it wasn't to me. Anyway, I think this can be effective for some aspects of the dinner meal. Parent-participation preschool clearly demonstrated this, as well. My kids, at least, responded well to the routine and the rules. It took me a while to realize I could apply the same routine and impersonal rules at home, and it was nothing like being a dog trainer.

I agree that kids preferences should be accommodated to some extent. My mom served eggplant often but the stuff made me gag. Finally she decided I wasn't just being a pill for the hell of it, and let me skip the egg plant. But I also agree no one should have to be a short order cook. Ugh. No thank you, I don't have time for that.

A girlfriend of mine had a rule, 'the kitchen is closed after 7pm (or 8pm or whatever)." No making messes after the kitchen is cleaned up. And her dh would share fruit with them every single night before bed if they wanted it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *demeter888*
> Either way, I still microwave veggies often because I am too busy to prepare them on the stove. That and we just eat raw when possible. If it weren't for nukers we'd have far fewer veggies on the table.


Exactly. That's what I figured about 'ranch' dressing as well: if it gets them to eat veggies that they wouldn't eat otherwise, then so be it. But fortunately my kids just don't like the stuff and are fine with plain cooked veggies with salt, pepper and butter. Frequently cooked in the microwave because that's all I've got time for.


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## Oread (Aug 12, 2012)

I think it's ok for a kid to decide not to eat what we are eating for dinner, but I'm also not going to make them whatever they want whenever they want it, or I'd spend all day making various snacks that they decide they don't want 5 minutes later.

So this is the best idea I have heard so far - if they refuse dinner, have one specific, fairly healthy snack that they can get themselves. If you don't want dinner or are hungry later on, get a yogurt. Yogurt is healthy and my daughter usually likes it, but its not like a cookie or a special treat either. So whenever she doesn't want dinner, that's fine (no one is allowed to tell me what I do or not want to eat, so I allow her that same autonomy), then get yourself a yogurt. I don't have to prepare anything extra or do any more chores, and she is making her own decision and feeding herself.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

weather has an affect on dd's eating habits.

on super hot days we eat many small meals - light and cool.

you are talking about your 11 year old right.

i just have dd make dinner. she does anyways most of the time.


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## greenkri (Jun 10, 2013)

We had this problem with my now 4 year old when she was about 3. She learned that if she didn't eat her dinner, she could ask for something later and get something more snack-like (still nutritious). I was very flexible with her eating when she was a toddler, because I don't think too much structure is necessary at that age as long as you're providing nutritious options. Once I figured that out, I'd leave her plate out and it stayed the rest of the night in case she got hungry later. It only took a few days for her to figure out that she wasn't getting anything else. She'd go and eat her dinner just before bed so she wasn't hungry. Eventually she figured it out and started at least eating a little bit of her food. I also work really hard to make foods I know they'll like, or at least provide multiple options.

I should add this wasn't without whining and crying. I just calmly stated the situation and stayed firm and things _eventually_ worked out, mostly.


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## featherstory (Jun 7, 2010)

For me, I pay attention to how many calories the kids have eaten throughout the day and their activity level so I usually know if they are really hungry.

Since we eat a mostly raw vegan diet and other than that we eat all whole foods, I can eyeball their calorie intake really easily, or sometimes I prepare their meals and plates based on how many calories they should or normally eat for each meal.

I also make sure they've had plenty of exercise so I know they really feel their hunger. I offer a lot of water, because a lot of times kids mistake thirst for hunger. Boredom can also seem like hunger, as can emotional distress or anxiety. Also sometimes being excited to do something else makes them feel like they aren't hungry anymore.

I don't make them eat something they don't like...but I stress that it's very important to eat enough food. I figure if they don't eat it, it must not be very good...as sometimes happens with food...I offer them another "piece or plate" of the same we thing, or I taste their food or I might add something to it...maybe.

Usually we don't have a problem with them eating all their food...I like to offer 3 meals a day and I allow them to eat fruit that is available by getting it on their own...I don't care when they eat it or how much, as long as it's not too close to bedtime, so typically after dinner I don't like them snacking, but sometimes I'll let them eat lettuce, carrots or an apple.

I usually give them some very low-calorie food, like veggies while or before I make dinner to hold them over but not to fill them up before dinner.

Again, all of this is flexible...the vast majority of the time they eat 3 meals a day really well and ask for seconds and thirds. I experiment with giving them small containers and large containers to see how much they will naturally eat or ask for and how they react to having a lot or a little food. It's all very interested when you understand their needs and preferences. It does depend on the age as well though.


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## eloise24 (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwish*
> 
> IMO, this is not the real question. If you offer food and the kid is hungry, they won't starve. I can assure you of that.
> 
> I don't believe many of us have seen starving kids. I don't think this can compare with kids who ask: oh, I won't eat my broccoli, I want a cookie instead. Or: I don't like sauce on my pasta, I want it on the side.


This. Most Americans have never seen a true starving person. Not a hungry person. Not a person who has one meal a day. But true starving people. I used to feel "so sorry" for my kids when they were "so hungry" before bed and often caved and let them have a snack (and usually that hunger is due to not eating their dinner) and then I finally 'got tough" and stopped. Oh amazing how they suddenly started eating their dinner . . . and some nights they just aren't hungry. That's fine. They will have breakfast in the morning


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## LilyKay (Jun 28, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I did that with my 11-year-old at this age, but it becomes a huge battle of wills. I'd love to find something to do that doesn't devolve into a power struggle, but I realize that my dream might not exist. Sigh!


I really feel things become a power struggle when I'm not sure about my stance and fighting/negotiating with her. DD started "misbehaving" at the table (putting feet at the table, not wanting to use a plate) after a week at Grandma, also saying she's not hungry and then wanting a snack later. First couple of days I went through the power struggle and tried to reason which left me feeling drained. Finally I realized how things are: I am the mother and she is the child. I am the one responsible for enforcing the rules that are not up for discussion. The moment she started throwing a fit, I replied very calmly "you know the rules, if you can't follow them, I'll take you to the bedroom until you calm down". Two days and the whole testing phase stopped.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

I may have brought this up before but are the childhood eating issues/struggles we see talked about on MDC unique to the US? Is it our culture and/or abundance of cheap food that has cause this?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eloise24*
> 
> This. Most Americans have never seen a true starving person. Not a hungry person. Not a person who has one meal a day. But true starving people. I used to feel "so sorry" for my kids when they were "so hungry" before bed and often caved and let them have a snack (and usually that hunger is due to not eating their dinner) and then I finally 'got tough" and stopped. Oh amazing how they suddenly started eating their dinner . . . and some nights they just aren't hungry. That's fine. They will have breakfast in the morning


My father was a child/teen during WWII Germany and that caused a giant amount of food issues because he was (sadly) a person that knew starvation. To say "I don't like X" or "I am not hungry now" at the dinner table was cause for an epic flip out and endless lecture about wasting food.

My maternal grandparents both came from Depression Era farming families and the "picky" behavior of the past two generations completely baffles them. They (and the great aunts) would talk about how "back in the day" people ate because they were hungry at meal time, snacks and not liking something didn't exist in their worlds.

My husband falls into the category of thinking our DS will starve if he doesn't have a serving of protein, veggies and starch at each meal. I can see DS starting to eat just to please DH and it disturbs me greatly as DH and I were both basically forced fed as children and swore we would never do the same to DS.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I think that it's possible the relationship styles between parents and children are different. Far more rigidly hierarchal in the past, and also that hierarchy was maintained (sometimes liberally) with corporal punishment.

I've also heard that one cause might be too much variety in our modern N American diets, making it more difficult for children, who tend to prefer more predictable fare.

I believe both contribute.

I also think that we are currently rich enough to indulge our own memories of hating the way we grew up in relation to food. My Depression-era/WWII-era grandmother served us lima beans for breakfast when we didn't eat them off our plates at dinner. My parents were a bit kinder, but I still got plenty of grief from not eating what was on my plate.

I also think that the double-whammy of depression and war led to nearly 15 years (depending on location, country, etc.). That's a long period of austerity, and that generation seems particularly sensitive to the whims of today.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> I may have brought this up before but are the childhood eating issues/struggles we see talked about on MDC unique to the US? Is it our culture and/or abundance of cheap food that has cause this?
> 
> ...


Personally, I think that both extremes can cause eating issues. Being strict with feeding and forcing food on kids, as well as eating whatever, whenever can have negative results, imo.
If you take enjoyment out of eating, nutrition suffers.


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## LilyKay (Jun 28, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Caneel*
> 
> I may have brought this up before but are the childhood eating issues/struggles we see talked about on MDC unique to the US? Is it our culture and/or abundance of cheap food that has cause this?


Not necessarily. I grew up in the Middle East in a middle class family and while lack of food was never an issue, we did not have as many options back then when it came to cheap food (read processed food). Most of what we ate was prepared fresh from scratch. Still, I was as picky as they get. My strict parents struggled a lot too. I refused so many foods based on weird reasons (e.g. strawberries because they had "points" on the outside). Picky eating among children back then (nowadays diet is a lot more Western so to speak) was also relatively common, though parents were not as accommodating as nowadays. There was a lot of "you're not leaving the table until that plate is done".

I'd say eating struggles are there where ever there is no lack of food and a decent variety regardless of the quality. It's very logical if you think about it "I know A and B are available, I like A better than B, why can't I have A all the time?!"


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Mine are 6 and 8. If they don't eat dinner, then too bad, they can wait until breakfast. If they eat dinner, then sometimes we even have dessert. When something is new, I do insist on trying a bite though. I always like buying something new, so this happens a lot. I just found black quinoa, and solid black rice, not wild rice but totally black. So this week we had both of these, and the kids had to taste. Sometimes they even like it!

I hate outright bribery, but I have been known to say If you eat X, then you can have dessert. Then it is still a choice. They can chose to leave it on the plate and skip dessert, or eat it and get dessert.

I was more flexible when they were toddlers. I was more concerned about them getting something, not having to wait 12+ hours for the next meal. I think their moods varied much more with lack of food when they were young.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwish*
> 
> Personally, I think that both extremes can cause eating issues. Being strict with feeding and forcing food on kids, as well as eating whatever, whenever can have negative results, imo.
> If you take enjoyment out of eating, nutrition suffers.


I have eating issues because I never feel full. The amount of food I was forced (as in you will not get up from the table) was ridiculous. Same with my DH, who used to hide food in his pockets and throw it out his bedroom window. I don't eat junk but I still struggle with my weight because it is like the switch in my brain that tells me I should be full is broken.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LilyKay*
> 
> Not necessarily. I grew up in the Middle East in a middle class family and while lack of food was never an issue, we did not have as many options back then when it came to cheap food (read processed food). Most of what we ate was prepared fresh from scratch. Still, I was as picky as they get. My strict parents struggled a lot too. I refused so many foods based on weird reasons (e.g. strawberries because they had "points" on the outside). Picky eating among children back then (nowadays diet is a lot more Western so to speak) was also relatively common, though parents were not as accommodating as nowadays. There was a lot of "you're not leaving the table until that plate is done".
> 
> I'd say eating struggles are there where ever there is no lack of food and a decent variety regardless of the quality. It's very logical if you think about it "I know A and B are available, I like A better than B, why can't I have A all the time?!"


Interesting to know it exists in other cultures as well. I also agree with your second statement.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

My kid is 10 now. When he was 4, he was never hungry at the time we ate dinner and he was incredibly picky about his food.

I did everything people say is wrong. I never made him eat things that looked unappetizing to him, though I insisted he must say "No thank you." I asked him whether he was hungry before he went to bed, because I thought he hadn't eaten enough at dinner. If I made a dish with the vegetables mixed together, I steamed his veggies separately. I bought the vegetables he would eat and didn't buy the ones he wouldn't. He never had to eat sauce. I got plates with dividers so his food didn't touch. I let him eat fruit in the bathtub before bedtime. (I still do that.)

Now, though he still tells me that he's picky, he seems to me to have gradually outgrown the awful picky stage. He eats a wide variety of foods. He will eat foods mixed with other food. He even mixes foods together! He doesn't turn up his nose at new food. He eats lots of vegetables. He says please and thank you and excuse me, and he clears his place most nights without being asked. (I'm still working on the napkin in the lap.) He eats well and politely. He is healthy. He has energy. He doesn't catch every cold. He's growing. He's not underweight or overweight. Everything is fine.

I think you should do what feels comfortable for you. If you feel put-upon as a short-order cook, don't be one. If you don't mind making food to please the child, go ahead and do that. Either way, the pickiness is a phase that most people outgrow and it's not worth arguing.

My feeling is that your crucial task is to give the child the good manners to make polite requests and demurrals, not to enforce eating specific foods. If you purchase the ingredients of a generally good diet, then all the things the child eats, including snacks and desserts, will be nutritious. There is no need for you to argue at the table about what the child will eat.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

It's really becoming clear to me lately that my 3 year old doesn't have the forethought yet to eat enough at mealtimes to "last." She eats until she no longer feels hungry, but definitely not to fullness or even what I would see as contentment. I actually think it's kind if great, since I have issues with portion control and very rarely am actually hungry. Anyway, I've been struggling over the appropriateness of giving a snack, and decided that this is not about discipline. She is eating what she thinks she needs at mealtime, which happens to be so little that she's hungry at bedtime. Shrug. I assume her appetite will increase naturally over time.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
> 
> I think you should do what feels comfortable for you. If you feel put-upon as a short-order cook, don't be one. If you don't mind making food to please the child, go ahead and do that. Either way, the pickiness is a phase that most people outgrow and it's not worth arguing.
> 
> My feeling is that your crucial task is to give the child the good manners to make polite requests and demurrals, not to enforce eating specific foods. If you purchase the ingredients of a generally good diet, then all the things the child eats, including snacks and desserts, will be nutritious. There is no need for you to argue at the table about what the child will eat.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

We do one snack a day - breakfast (8-9ish), lunch (12-1ish) afternoon snack(4ish), then dinner (dinner is usually 7:30)

NO snacks in-between. The afternoon snack is usually something light such as fruit.

He eats at meals no problem, but isn't "starving" at any point during the day. Sometimes he is hungry, and I just tell him when his next eating time will be.

The few times he doesnt eat, when the meal is over, food goes away, and thats it. If he says he is hungry, again, I will tell him when his next meal will be.


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