# whats a mama to drive???



## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

Hi all...I'm new and I have a question...

We have one little one and are expecting another next spring. We currently have a Toyota Corolla. Great car, but snug to say the least with three people in it. When my DH and I went camping for a week this summer the car was OVER FULL with just the two of us and there was no getting comfortable.

So, we've been considering getting a minivan when #2 gets here.

Today I picked up our towns monthly progressive paper and there was a huge article about the evils of SUVs and Minivans. And the article really critisized people for feeling the need for such large vehicles. It made the comment "what did people do before minivans?".

So...I felt in a hard spot....whats a mama who's short on space to drive?

We aren't wealthy....we are pretty lower/middle class actually. The corolla is right up our ally in terms of what we paid for it.

Idealy, I'd LOVE to get a nice Volvo wagon. I love them. But, we probably can't afford one thats new enough to justify getting it.

When I was a kid, people drove those huge station wagons that had the rear facing row of seats in the back. Remember those? But those are just as gas guzzling as a new minivan it seems.

I don't seen an option for us. We are trying to stay a one car family. We will need room for two car seats for at least a year and a half. We travel on small road trips fairly frequently and need space for luggage and stuff. We have two dogs who ride places with us about half the time.

When that article said to look for other options, what do you think it meant?

We are one car because I'm a SAHM and I can walk most anywhere I need to during the day. But, the weather is extreme here and I will have a newborn again soon.

I don't know......

Are there affordable options to minivans out there that offer the same kind of extra space and I'm just not thinking of them?

thanks







:


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## ~ATenthMuse~ (Mar 16, 2003)

I guess I don't have much of an answer for you but what about a mid-size? Dh and I have decided we'd just about rather have death than a mini-van. We might eventually get an suv but it will be as small as possible. Right now we have a saturn L200 which is a very boring car to me but it is just right for 2 kids, we got it right before our dd was born. It's great on gas and has a huge trunk. I love those volvo wagons as well but I don't really see us putting that much money into something when I detest driving as much as I do and dh will probably be driving something from work. Besides, I can think of a zillion things to do with the extra money saved.

I think you'd have room for two dogs in a mid-size if they were smallish!


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## AmyB (Nov 21, 2001)

Minivans have several distinct advantages over SUVs including

-they get better gas milage
-they are safer for the occupants (they don't roll)
-they are safer for people outside the vehicle (the bumper matches car bumpers)
-they have better handling (SUVs are difficult to drive)

However, if you mainly want the large capacity for camping (and you only camp once in a while) you could probably save a bundle by keeping your small car for daily use and renting a minivan for camping trips.

--AmyB


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## mamabtt (Apr 15, 2003)

We have a 2.5yr old and will start working on #2 soon and we also have a dog. We are waiting for our new Toyota Prius Hybrid to come. This is considered a mid-sized sedan and is comparable in interior size to our Honda Accord. It is pricey starting at 20K but you save on gas and get a 2K tax write off (not to mention, the "green" factor which is why I want it) If you can hold out, there will be SUV and Minivan Hybrids coming out starting next summer. My husband was totally set on a minivan but I convinced him (it took an entire year) to go this direction. After all, my parents had 2 kids and drove a "regular" sized car. Having 2 dogs would be an issue though, if they travel with you frequently. Our dog only weighs about 30lbs and can sit on my lap (while husband drives)

Good luck!


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Hmmm... maybe a Subaru? The Legacy especially gets fairly decent gas mileage, is quite roomy, and Subaru has a great reputation for reliability and safety.


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## dawningmama (Jan 14, 2003)

We have a minivan and I love it, for several reasons. I have 3 children (ds 6, dd 4, dd nearly2) so I will have 3 car seats for at least two more years. (Current recommendations are to have kids in a booster until 8yrs & 80lbs.) Plus, we often drive some of ds's friends---so that's another booster seat. We've recently ditched the big stroller for toddler dd---she now prefers to walk or use the little umbrella stroller. But, when we had the big one, or when I used a double stroller when I baby sat, I needed the extra cargo space to haul those things around. If you are thinking of having more than 2 kids, or think you may want to do some carpool things, a regular car is just really not practical.

I really think most SUVs are kind of silly, unless you are talking the big big ones with the third row of seats. A good friend of mine bought a 2003 Blazer. They just had their first baby and she is already cramped. She knows they will need something bigger before putting a second car seat in there. She has a bunch of big dogs, though, so I think she's probably better off with something huge like a Suburban or Yukon. My problem with those super-sized SUVs is that most of the people in my town cannot drive or park these things to save their lives! lol It gets kind of annoying to spend several minutes each morning in the preschool parking lot waiting for these mamoth mobiles to finish their 23 point turns and vacate their parking spots. And some of them are dangerous because the drivers don't have a good understanding of how large their cars are when they are changing lanes, entering traffic, etc.

Ok, enough rambling. To sum up: minivans rock, small gas-guzzling suvs suck, cars are nice if you've got one kid and no pets.


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## magnoliablue (Dec 29, 2002)

I have to say I love my Suburu.. it is over 10 years old.. a Legacy sedan.. I have three kids.. they all fit, along with any gear they take along..it has 140,000 miles on it now and has only needed minor maintenence.... I will drive it until it goes to car heaven.. and then I will buy another one just like it.. or maybe an Outback...oh.. and I put 10.00 a week in the tank and it lasts all week, and I drive ALL over.. ths , for a car over 10 years old is a pretty good mpg. My mechanic said Suburus have a rep for lasting to 300,000 miles.. and in my driveway sits a piece of $#@! Ford that barely lasted the 5 year length of the loan on it....


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

you could look into biodiesel. we have a vw jetta tdi that we've been running biodiesel in. there are several threads on here about biodiesel. you can also check out www.biodiesel.org for more info. we also have a nissan xterra mid sized SUV. it gets about 20mpg which is not great, but is comparable to some mini-vans. the jetta gets about 45mpg. i've gotta say, though, being due with number 2 in about 4 weeks the xterra is much more comfortable and it does have room for our two dogs. when baby number 2 gets here don't know which we'll drive. dd loves the jetta so we do drive it a lot around town, though we don't really drive around town a lot (dh walks or catches the bus to work). we're looking into a diesel SUV to replace the xterra. jeep is supposed to be coming out with a diesel liberty, but the dealer dh talked to about it didn't know anything about it. i think vw does make a jetta wagon and that would be something for us to consider, too. last time we took the jetta up to the mts, though, we tore up a plastic skid plate type thing on the undercarriage. would've been nice to have the extra clearance on the gravel and unpaved roads.

hth


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

great thread--anothermama, i could have written your op word for word--i even have a toyota corrolla and long for a volvo wagon.







and, we have similar incomes, so i probably won't be getting a volvo!!
my husband is in total denial about our car--it makes horrible noises, we have 2 carseats in the back and there is NO room for anyone else, or even much of anything else. but, it's paid for, and i don't blame him for not wanting another car payment right now. but how i do wish...


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## Bluegrass (Dec 31, 2001)

I'm with you mamas longing for a Volvo SW. I am , though, a proud member of the minivan mafia. My first car at 17 was an actual ~car~, at 19 (pre-kids) I got a minivan (for my show dogs), and I have never gone back. Cars make me feel claustrophobic. I like the space.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

I admit it...I love my mini van. Yes, my single sister and my single friends hollar, "soccer mom" when they see me but I don't care! Things I love; great gas mileage, easy to get ds in and out of his carseat (no hunching over), being high enough to see around all of the SUV's up here, plenty room for everyone's stuff and the dog! There is plenty of room for our dog to stretch out on the floor or the backseat. I really do love it, even though I fought for years not to get one. We got a great deal because they really a a dime a dozen, you can spend as much or as little as you want. Ours is an 03 Grand Caravan with all the trimmings except for keyless entry. That's what I want for Christmas. It's too hard to hold onto a toddler, a dog, a purse, and whatever else we have and unlock the door too!


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## Delilah (Sep 2, 2002)

I don't let any article make me feel guilty because we're the ones having to live with our choices. I wish they were more fuel efficient, but we like having the room for our kids and other family members to travel with us. Otherwise, we'd be taking an extra car on our big family outings, so even with two sedans we'd be using just as much gas.

I read the other day where automakers are looking at building hybrid SUV's starting 2005 or something like that. I have no idea what that means in fuel efficiency, but I'm sure it's a much better deal for the environment.


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## nic (Jan 13, 2003)

SUV and minivan's did not appeal to us. We went with a VW wagon (but there are less expensive options like the subaru or honda). Our dog is in the back and it would fit two dogs easy. For long trips we plan to buy and use one of those storage containers that ride on the top of the car.


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## jcc64 (Nov 11, 2003)

Another Subaru fan here. We've had our Legacy Wagon for 12 years and 175,000+miles and still going strong. Other than replacing the muffler and the brakes, we never have any repairs- ever. Still on the same clutch!!!!!! I have 3 kids and a big dog and we all fit. I have to admit, a third row of seats would be nice when the kids want to bring friends along, but with just 2 kids you'll be fine. All wheel drive is better than 4wd (I live on a mountain). I also have a Nissan Pathfinder, and other than a little extra cargo space, it can't hold a candle to the Subaru.


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## kazmir (Nov 21, 2001)

We just got rid of our old Jeep Cherokee and got a Honda CRV 2 wheel drive. It has worked out great! Lotsa room, good gas mileage and a good ride. I have put 2 car seats in the back seat and still fit an adult next to them.

It took a bit to find a 2 wheel drive. The dealers all wanted to sell the 4WD instread but it was 4 grand more and worse mileage. We got ours thru the Costco Auto program, just called the "Authroized Costco" dealer and they found the one we wanted and drove it to our house. No hagling involved!

We looked at alot of vehicles, but for our lifestyle this fit. I used the Yahoo auto search to compare and it helped alot.

Good luck on your search


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## levar (Jan 28, 2002)

We have/had a Civic sedan [similar to your Corrola?] and *did you know* you can RENT a small size uhaul trailer, or a luggage rack, etc? Uhaul, REI, Rent A Rack, Etc. [You rent a hitch-like thing that attaches under the car, no idea how but it does.] If you are like us and only travel "loaded" a few times a year [even once a month?] it IS more economical to rent a "stuff" option instead of buying a bigger car. Even renting a full size SUV for a week is less than the cost of buying a new car etc.

We did eventually buy an SUV [2nd car] and love it. But it really really is a luxury that sits parked 4-5 days a week. We have honestly only ever used the all wheel drive 2ce [1ce 'just cause we could'] and have STILL rented a luggage rack 2ce for "really big" trips. [And rented a trailer 1ce but that was to move etc]

We do have friends who bought a used Accord. Their trunk is HUGE [bigger than our civic anyway] and so is the back seat. And they have THREE kids in car seats and a Great Dane?!?! [The Great Dane sits in front or stays home if hubby is in the car FYI]

So really SUVs and Minivans are *nice* but mileage is terrible [and therefore so is the cost of gas] and maintenance costs are higher and honestly they *are* a wee bit scary to back up if you ask me!!







:

I am sure you'll enjoy what ever you pick!!

[And. just my opinion again but it always did amaze me when people - like myself







- offer 'advice' on cars. What IS it about cars and everyone knowing what is best? I remember trying to decide between the sedan and 2 seater - single etc - and folks kept telling me I should get the sedan so I could drive other people? My thought was if I got the 2 seater and needed to go with other people THEY could drive?!







And have you ever seen that show with the smooshed cars and the test dummies? NONE of them do well in a 40 mile an hour head on collision?!?! But in a more common fender-bender it is exponentially more expensive to repair an SUV or minivan than a sedan... and ALOT less to insure!!]

OOH!! Last thought, I promise.







Check with cost of car insurance BEFORE you buy!! SUVs are 3-4 times a same-cost Sedan?! And Mimivans are more too. Station wagons are more but only slightly. We learned this because it turns out our SUV is actually a staion wagon because the frame is a sedan not truck frame. Wow the things one learns?


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

Not all family vehicles are created equal...

Among minivans, 2004 models with the best gas mileage are:
Chrysler Town and Country (2WD, 4 cyl) at 20 city, 26 hwy
Dodge Caravan (2WD, 4 cyl) at 20 city, 26 hwy
Toyota Sienna (2WD, 6 cyl) at 19 city, 27 hwy

The worst are:
Ford Freestar (FWD, 6 cyl) at 16 city, 23 hwy
Mercury Monterey (FWD, 6 cyl) at 16 city, 23 hwy
Kia Sedonna (2WD, 6 cyl) at 16 city, 22 hwy)

Among midsize station wagons, good choices are:
Ford Focus (2WD, 4 cyl) at 26 city and 33 hwy
Saturn LW300 (2WD, 4 cyl) at 24 city and 34 hwy
Volswaggon Passat (2WD, 4 cyl) at 22 city and 31 hwy

Other things to keep in mind: gas mileage and efficiency cannot be determined exclusively by how large the car looks. The large-looking Chrysler Town and Country gets about the same gas mileage as the Midsize Mazda 6 (6 cyl), Mitsubishi Gallant (6 cyl), Nissan Altima (6 cyl), or Mercury Sable (6 cyl). While no one would argue that a minivan is going to be more fuel efficient than a Toyota Corolla, you can't arbitrarily decide that sedans are "good" and minivans are "bad."

I have not mentioned SUVs, even though there are a few small ones that get gas mileage comparable to a minivan (such as the Rav4, Buick Rendezvous, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Ford Escape, Honda CR-V, Hyundai Santa Fe, Mazda Tribute, Mitsubishi Outlander, and Saturn Vue, ). But these choices often leave you with much less room than a minivan. And there are other disadvantages as well - I like this article from Car Talk: http://cartalk.cars.com/info/suv/downsides.html

And another vote for the Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon. It gets reasonable gas mileage (22, 28), and Subarus are just good all-around cars. I have a Forester, which I love. The Outback Wagon is roomier than the Forester.

BTW, I got all mileage info from http://www.fueleconomy.gov/index.htm which is a site maintained by the EPA.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

We have a sedan - Honda Civic - and we have one child and are expecting #2. We recently got a soft car-top carrier to use when we go camping. We are trying hard not to "supersize" our lives just because we will have 2 children. Now, it is probably unavoidable when you have five......


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## doulamomvicki (Nov 4, 2003)

Buy a used Volvo wagon if you can! Our is eleven years old and gets great mileage. It has the pullout third seat in the back so it comfortably fits our family of six. If maintained right a Volvo will last forever! Our first Volvo was 14 years old and had 280,000 miles on it when it got creamed by a drunk driver (we walked out of that car without a scratch).


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

SUVs and minivans are worse than cars that get equivalent gas mileage because they are not subject to the CAFE requirements and thus provide no incentive for automakers to improve overall fuel economy. http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles...cfm?pageID=226

Personally, I would take what you read in the article to heart. You aren't the only one who has to live with your choices--every thing that breathes does, too.

We have a Saturn wagon. It gets good gas mileage, fits two car seats and two pets and is reliable. You can get the smaller one used (they don't make them any more) very reasonably or a somewhat larger one new or maybe used if you are lucky to find one.


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## adventuregirl (Nov 22, 2002)

I drive a Subaru Legacy and get 32 mpg, its very roomy, and great to drive.

I am wishing they would make a 4wd wagon in diesel so I could go to biodiesel, the closest is vw, but they have yet to combine the awd with a diesel engine in the us, wah! I couldn't drive anywhere Oct-May most of the time without some form of 4/awd, so will stick with my subie for now.

Good luck in your quest!


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## LambQueen (Mar 20, 2003)

If we can afford it, I am eyeing the VW Eurovan. It looks totally cool. But I think it's pricey. Anyone here have one? We are happy with oir Subaru. Good bang for the buck.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Delilah wrote:

Quote:

I don't let any article make me feel guilty because we're the ones having to live with our choices.
Um, actually, ALL of us have to live with your choices! All of us breathe, and not only does burning more fuel mean emitting more pollutants, but in many states the emissions requirements are not as strict for SUVs and vans as for cars. Also, all of us have to live with the fact that when the fossil fuels are used up, they're used up...and the more you use, the more likely it is that we'll run out of fossil fuels before we have feasible alternatives that fill the needs of enough people.

I like Nursing Mother's idea of having a big vehicle for the times when you really need it and a smaller car for everything else.

What I'd get if I had to accomodate 2 carseats and luggage is a midsize sedan w/roof rack or a station wagon. Two of my friends have station wagons they adore, which get >25 mpg--I think one is a Nissan and one a Subaru.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

I am going to have to back up the pp who said to look at the second hand Volvo wagons. I am from a Volvo family, and my younger brother drove his 1976 into the ground at 685,000 kms, and has just bought a 1982 which runs like a dream with 450,000kms. My mom recently bought a 1995 wagon for $2800. It easily fits 2 large car seats and a Graco Turbobooster across the back. If you keep your eyes open, an older Volvo or even a Passat wagon can be very affordable and safe. the 1976 had lap-shoulder belts in the back seat, unlike, say a 1992 Jimmy.
Corollas are small. My DH can't even get in them.
We really dislike everything about SUVs unless you actually need one for, you know, 4x4ing, hauling trailers and stuff. Of course, we have recently begun looking at lower middle class affordable cars and here are my observations, coming from someone who carries 2 car seats with her to every test drive. I like big cars. At 6'4" and 300 lbs, DH likes to drive big cars. I just like to be able to sit comfortably, and I am 5'11".
1. the Ford Focus is way too small. I could not sit in the back comfortably at all.
2. A mid-90's Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria will run you about $3500 and it is like driving a couch. 2 seats and my rear end across the back? No problem. Trunk space galore, and the one we are considering buying gets about 20mpg.
3. I only like minivans slightly more than SUVs. This probably stems from the time my aunt t-boned a minivan and it flipped 3 times. That, and every minivan I have ever been in has been a gutless wonder. I know the new ones are better, but I detest driving, and cannot imagine myself going that far into debt for something I cannot stand. If we have more than 3 kids, ok.

I have to stop ranting...
in conclusion, check out edmunds to browse at cars. It will tell you about how much you can expect to pay and they rate the cars.


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