# Umbilical cord stumps...



## Mama K (Jun 7, 2004)

I have a theory that the purple dye they put on stumps in the hospital makes it take longer for the cord to fall off. I've had this theory for a while, and now DD#3 seems to support that...

DD#1 was born in the hospital. They used a standard clamp and the purple dye and her cord fell off when she was around 3 weeks old, I think. DD #2 was also born in the hospital, with clamp and purple dye. She was closer to a month old when she finally lost her cord. DD#3 was born at home. They used a cord bander and no purple dye, of course. Her cord is hanging on by a thread and she is 11 days old.

SO...

1. How long did it take for your baby's cord stump to fall off?

2. Did they use a clamp, a bander, shoe lace, or what to tie it off?

3. Did they use the purple dye?

4. Did you clean the cord with anything, or did you just leave it alone?








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## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

All of my kids were different. One was a week, one was 2 weeks and one was a little more than 3 weeks. None of them had that purple dye stuff. They all had yellow clamps. And we used alcohol wo clean them when we felt like it which wasn't often.

I'd pull it off if it's just hanging there. But I tend to be a picker.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Alcohol is a preservative, that's why alcohol-treated cords take longer to fall off.

Cord fell off within 3-4 days for all my babies. I can't remember what the midwives used to tie off the cords, but I know it wasn't a clamp. For the ones I did myself, I used sterilized shoelaces. Didn't treat the cords with anything. If they needed to be cleaned (i.e. if they got poop on them) I just used water and let air dry.


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## ckhagen (Sep 6, 2004)

My m/w believes that to be true as well (the bit about alcohol too).
IIRC she actually convinced the NICU to stop using it and just leave well enough alone.

My first babe had it and it took 28 days for his cord to fall off!!!
The second, I didn't mess with it at all and it only took like 4 or 5 days.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

i think part of it, too, is that in the hospital the cord is clamped right away, so there is more volume to dry up and rot off. if the cord is left intact longer, it tends to fall off faster.


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

1st DS was 2 weeks to the day. Hospital with clamp and all that. Yuck. We cleaned it a little tiny bit with alcohol (didn't buy into it even then). Got a little worried when it got stinky right before his two week check-up, but turns out that was just 'cause it was done! Found it caught in his outfit that evening.

With the 2nd, homebirth and was tied with some sort of string, I think. They did apply goldenseal but that's it. I don't think we did any alcohol. I just checked my pictures for verification, but I think it came off in a similar amount of time. He had it still at 9 days old but not at 13.







So it was a little shorter but not a ton, for us.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

My DD was less than 2 weeks old when her cord fell off. I wanna say like 10 days. I remember the pediatrician was surprised that her cord was gone already by her 2 week appointment and it'd been gone for a few days by then. She was born in the hospital and didn't do anything special to her cord... no blue stuff, no alcohol, nothing. Just clamped off. I had a theory that if they had let the cord go longer before they cut it, it would have come off earlier, but who knows.


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## Mama K (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pamamidwife* 
i think part of it, too, is that in the hospital the cord is clamped right away, so there is more volume to dry up and rot off. if the cord is left intact longer, it tends to fall off faster.

nak
hadn't thought about that, but it certainly makes sense...


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

This purple dye thing is new to me. What is it's official purpose? What is in it?

I always figured they looked purple for the same reasons bruises look purple. I haven't actually seen a newborn in 23 years -- just pics and videos.


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## AuntG (Apr 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
This purple dye thing is new to me. What is it's official purpose? What is in it?

I always figured they looked purple for the same reasons bruises look purple. I haven't actually seen a newborn in 23 years -- just pics and videos.

I have never heard of the purple dye either. They all look purple to me, whether treated or not.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Both mine were born in hospital and niether had their cord treated with anything. They were clamped with the standard little off white clampy thingie, which were removed before we left. I gave both of them full baths from the get go, didn't treat the stump with anything other than the occasional wipe with warm water and both fell off at around the 10 day mark.

My boss treated her son's the exact same way and his had to be treated with silver nitrate at 4 weeks to get it to fall off.


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

cords that are still plump with blood take longer to dry and in looking at the studies probably have a greater need of antiseptics-- places where they wait to clamp and cut the cord and then use air to dry the cord stump dries faster and falls off quicker- where they clamp and cut quickly the use of an antiseptic regime seems to keep the cord from being infected- but it also keeps it from rotting off as quickly-
my home born children 3 days so all and all pretty quickly just air dry-- and even with my hospital born children the first I used alcohol but #2 no- he was born in 1 hour total and I think that he shunted quickly after birth so even though his cord was cut quickly it was done just as quickly and dried out fast- 4 days or so.
with our clients over the years I think 10 days was the longest I have seen a cord take- and maybe one or 2 babies who had some sort of weeping cord where the stump had fallen off but there was an area in the belly button where it still weeped/sloughed --


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## Mama K (Jun 7, 2004)

Could there be a genetic factor to how long it takes for the cord to fall off as well?

Meaning, could some babies be genetically predisposed to have their cord fall off quickly; whereas, other babies are genetically predisposed for it to take longer?


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama K* 
Could there be a genetic factor to how long it takes for the cord to fall off as well?

Meaning, could some babies be genetically predisposed to have their cord fall off quickly; whereas, other babies are genetically predisposed for it to take longer?


I think there definitely could be being as this is something that is also dependant on how quickly a baby 'heals'. I don't think it's the only factor, but I do think it plays a role.


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## polishprinsezz (Dec 31, 2006)

my sons cord fell off after 4 days. it was summertime. we cleaned it occasionally with rubbing alchol. it was origanally clamped with that yellow hospital clamp. i was kind of sad when cord fell off, he wasnt my " newborn " anymore.


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## ustasmom (Jan 12, 2004)

Do they use Triple Dye again?







:

My first 3 babies had triple dye but that was in 1986, 1989 and 1992. Then the next 3 they changed over to alcohol. (My baby towels were spared from stains). But then on the last one, they said that tests proved that triple dye or alcohol didn't work any faster than doing nothing. So we didn't use anything and everything was fine.


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## XanaduMama (May 19, 2006)

I don't know-- it took ds's at least 2 weeks (maybe slightly more?!) to fall off. His was clamped, but no purple stuff and we didn't do anything to clean it. We tried not to get it wet, but that was about it.


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## stacey2061 (Feb 1, 2006)

1. How long did it take for your baby's cord stump to fall off?
i think it was a week or so

2. Did they use a clamp, a bander, shoe lace, or what to tie it off?
a clamp

3. Did they use the purple dye?
uh, what? i've never even heard of this dye, and no, they didn't

4. Did you clean the cord with anything, or did you just leave it alone?
just water


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## XanaduMama (May 19, 2006)

So ds wanted to look at pictures of himself this afternoon, and we were scrolling through his newborn pics on the computer. We got to one of him as a brand new newborn, in the hospital warming bassinet thing, where they took him while trying to stop my bleeding. I thought they just diapered







: and hatted







: him there, but now I noticed (thanks to this thread) that he got the PURPLE DYE STUFF!!!!!!!







:







:







:







:

I'm furious and sad, bc it's one more thing they did (minor, admittedly, but still) that I asked them not to do. Plus maybe it supports the OP's theory: as I posted earlier, it took 2 weeks for the stump to fall off.

Grrrrr.

Sorry--I know the thread's pretty much done, but I had to post an update.


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## GatorNNP (May 17, 2004)

I guess my question here is , are we assuming faster is better? If the cord stump covers a hole through which bacteria and other crap can enter the newborn baby and set up a lovely infection then why are we in such a hurry? I think skin can only grow so fast to cover up the hole so whatever time it takes maybe we shouldn't try to speed it up. You don't really know if the underside is healed over until it comes off so there is not a good way to peek.

1st kid= c/sec, cord clamped with hospital clamp immediately, one or two alcohol rubbies, then goldenseal powder. Took about 16 days.

2nd kid= vag, cord clamped after several minutes no pulsing, and goldenseal powder. Took about 2ish weeks to come off. I did give her a real tub bath at 5 days old.

One good point that one of my mw students examined in newborn class is, are we sure that the goldenseal powder is free of botulism since it is a root and roots grow in the dirt? I don't think safety has been examined. Nor the safety of putting goldenseal on a newborn.

Alcohol doesn't really kill that many germs these days anyway.


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

goldenseal I am not so worried about dried having botulism because it is a dried plant, botulism likes moisture- could have tetanus on it though
alcohol and goldenseal as well as triple dye are all going to change flora- the studies in places where the cord site gets infected alot skin to skin contact is protective, as well as hand washing of the person caring for the baby- mom/grandma and having a cord that is cut short- longer cords tend to become infected easier.
having something fall off sooner as well as heal up sooner is most likely better in the sense of not having a source of infection / dead tissue not still attached to the body-


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## AKmoose (Jul 25, 2003)

dd1's cord came off within 3-4 days (we think...hard to remember). She had a metal clamp, but born at a fsbc so nothing else done to it. I bathed with her in a big-person tub the 2nd day...including some perineal healing herbs. We thought maybe the herbal bath(s) helped the cord heal faster.

dd2's cord stayed maybe a day or two longer, but still off within the first week. We didn't bathe her (I wanted to keep the vernix rubbing into her skin) for longer, and didn't do any special care either. She had a plastic clamp if I remember correctly, and was born at home...

Actually, I think we did use a little rubbing alcohol on q-tips when the cord was a little stinky...


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

We have used dental floss to tie the cords after they have stopped pulsing. We put nothing on the cords. It has taken 3-4 days to fall off.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mwherbs* 
having a cord that is cut short- longer cords tend to become infected easier.
having something fall off sooner as well as heal up sooner is most likely better in the sense of not having a source of infection / dead tissue not still attached to the body-

I'm curious if there are any actual studies that prove either 1. cord length related to incidence of cord infection or 2. cord length related to length of time it takes to fall off. I am trying to decide how long we want to leave the cord stump and I'd like to make an informed decision, but there doesn't seem to be any proven information out there. Also does an antiseptic cord dressing prevent cord infections? Wouldn't a longer cord dry out faster, especially on babies that have a deep innie belly button?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

My first two kids were born at home with a MW. The cord wasn't cut until it stopped pulsing, and then it was clamped. I didn't put anything on it at all, and both times the cord stump fell off in about 4 days- just when my milk was coming in and we used up that first box of disposable newborn sized diapers. DD1 was put into cloth at that point, DD2 was put into size 1 at that point (she was HUGE for a newborn and CDing two was simply too much for me at that time in my life.) I think I used alcohol on the spot one time after the cord fell off and there were a few drops of blood at the separation site.

DS was born at home, but we stupidly transfered to a hospital after his birth. The cord wasn't cut until an hour or so after his birth. The nurses in the hospital put alcohol on the stump at every diaper change, but when they "let" me change him, I skipped that step, knowing what I did with the girls. His cord fell off when he was a week old, much to the surprise of the NICU staff.

I was very shocked when a friend told me that the stump didn't fall off her DS until he was 3 weeks old.


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
I'm curious if there are any actual studies that prove either 1. cord length related to incidence of cord infection or 2. cord length related to length of time it takes to fall off. I am trying to decide how long we want to leave the cord stump and I'd like to make an informed decision, but there doesn't seem to be any proven information out there. Also does an antiseptic cord dressing prevent cord infections? Wouldn't a longer cord dry out faster, especially on babies that have a deep innie belly button?

well yep- that is some of what I have been talking about- the studies in Nepal- and I will pull them up again tomorrow and post- and Thailand and several other - longer cords make for more likely to get tetanus-- probably more area exposed to contamination --
the studies in the US are in hospitals different protocols and things like cutting and clamping quickly-- so more blood-


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

DS was born in the hospital and his cord was clamped and cut after about 2 mins - not really delayed but not as soon as most OBs cut it either. We did not put anything on it and it fell off in about a week.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

My last baby, my 2nd hb, took forever to have his fall off. I did nothing, it was clamped by the mws and nothing else. It was over 3 weeks.
I think that might have been the problem, I don't bath my babies at all for a few weeks. It wasn't until he had a 2nd bath and got the cord stump wet that it started to come off. It was too clean on it's own, I guess to come off.








I used Golden Seal powder 2X as it was coming off.

My 3rd baby, 1st hb, took a while as well, if I recall correctly.

My 2 hospital babies had theirs off in 2wks. I don't recall if they put purple dye on them or not. I do know back then I did the alcohol thing with the 1st as instructed, not so much with the 2nd.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Clostridium botulinum is an obligate anaerobe which means that it can only grow and produce toxin in the absence of air. C. botulinum spores are found everywhere in soil but those spores are how the bacteria survive in hostile conditions. They can only germinate and grow in something with an available sugar source, is fairly alkaline and absolutely no air, which is why it is a risk in home canning of vegetables.

The only way it would be a risk with cord stumps would be if there was somehow a deep puncture that went anaerobic, or if the cord healed over some of the powder kind of like Clostridium tetani which causes tetanus.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GatorNNP* 
I guess my question here is , are we assuming faster is better? If the cord stump covers a hole through which bacteria and other crap can enter the newborn baby and set up a lovely infection then why are we in such a hurry? I think skin can only grow so fast to cover up the hole so whatever time it takes maybe we shouldn't try to speed it up. You don't really know if the underside is healed over until it comes off so there is not a good way to peek.

1st kid= c/sec, cord clamped with hospital clamp immediately, one or two alcohol rubbies, then goldenseal powder. Took about 16 days.

2nd kid= vag, cord clamped after several minutes no pulsing, and goldenseal powder. Took about 2ish weeks to come off. I did give her a real tub bath at 5 days old.

One good point that one of my mw students examined in newborn class is, are we sure that the goldenseal powder is free of botulism since it is a root and roots grow in the dirt? I don't think safety has been examined. Nor the safety of putting goldenseal on a newborn.

Alcohol doesn't really kill that many germs these days anyway.

This is so true - though it seems most lotus birth cords fall off within that first week. And I know that thicker cords, including the cords clamped right at birth (*before the birth of the placenta*) seem to take longer. So when looking at the question "is faster better?" I'd have to say it doesn't matter - but delayed cord clamping DOES matter. So in that instance, I'd say if it's taking a long time I'd venture to believe that either it was a very thick cord (with tons of Whartons Jelly) or clamped right away at birth.

I don't recommend goldenseal for many reasons, some of which you addressed. First off, it's a foreign substance. If we're going to use anything other than water it should be breastmilk. Goldenseal is also an endangered plant. Next, the powder is fine and can be aspirated by babies.

I think it goes along with bulb syringes - we just can't seem to get away from the ritual of "doing something", even if it isn't helpful and could be harmful.

Also, cords that take longer smell - you know, it IS rotting off the body. It should smell a bit. I think most people start getting worried when it smells and prolong it releasing with alcohol applications.

I also find it interesting that if the cord is left intact for three to four hours you don't need a clamp before cutting. The umbilical arteries and vein start to close down with the babies first breath - and inside they shrink pretty rapidly. I think it would take ALOT to get an infection from the cord stump, especially if delayed cord clamping is involved.

Do I praise delayed cord clamping enough?


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

I wanted to get back to you because I said I would- I have been looking at so many studies and articles lately- and I don't remember the search I did to find the study - it was epidem study I do remember and it has a small list of things that increased risk in a place and it stood out to me because it has been long presumed but not studied that cord stump length does increase tetanus risk- I have looked on pub med but haven't read them all and yahoo- which is where I think I might have found this one- I was looking at cord cutting practices and ancient ways - it was probably within the first 2 pages when I was searching- just not finding it now and little time-- sorry


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