# Is this common?



## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

I grew up in a culture where mom has babies/kids and she takes them everywhere she can. If kids are not with her because she can't bring them along they are with dad or other relative and she picks them up as soon as she's done. If both parents work family care for kids, the parents pick the children up as soon as the leave work. Basically, a parent, usually the mom, has has their kids with the as much as possible when they are young. I'm only talking infant to preschool age.

I've come across a few friends who drop off their babies with other people so they can "get my shopping done" "have a day to myself every week" "have a day off with my wife every week". Is that common? These people are co-workers so they weren't raised in the culture that I was. I have co-workers who grew up like I did and they find it odd also.

One woman took 8 weeks off after having her baby. She could have taken FMLA and extended it but decided to take it later in the year when swim season started because she's the coach. Her baby sees a great baby sitter three days a week (there are no set days the babe has to be there) even if both of the parents aren't working just so they can "get stuff done." She grocery shops that way because she finds it to be less of a hassle.

Another guy said that he and his wife (both do shift work) only have monday's off together so they have his MIL watch the baby so they can do whatever they want that day. Every week. He also drops off his baby to his mom on a separate day so he can have "four hours to myself every week".

Is this common or just the people I'm running into at work?


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## kristi96 (Mar 31, 2009)

I have three kids at home and DH and I try to have a date night once a week. Even if only for an hour. I don't need someone to watch my kids while I go grocery shopping. We do however, need some adult time to keep our relationship going. We try to go out to dinner or a movie once a week after the little ones are asleep.


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

Yes, it's common. I think people need varying amounts of time to themselves, to recharge, in order to be good parents. There is a point where I think it definitely goes over the line, but it's hard to say exactly where that is. I'm not sure about any of the situations you mentioned. And of course it's more a money issue than anything else- it's certainly more common among people who have enough money to afford other luxuries as well as extra childcare. I also have known people who are not as into the infant part, so would definitely do something like take the time later in the year, when they see the baby as needing its mom more, especially if she could also do something special with an older child.

I don't have a lot of extra childcare right now, though I have had some in the past. I love my kids, and I love being around them. But I am much better with some recharge time.


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

I know I need a break here and there! Mil comes up to visit (we live three hours away) once a month or so and we have a date night, plus we have a close friend who is also a child-care professional, who occasionally keeps dd (still an infant- 5 months old) for a couple of hours so dad and I can go out. We usually go to a rock concert- something we used to do a lot but is pretty incompatible with our parental life.







Additionally, dad and I each have one night a week to ourselves, during which the other parent takes over baby care.

He has a home business and I am a student, so we are both home with dd all day. And I love that! I'm so happy about the bond we've formed as a family. But I do also enjoy having time alone with my partner; sometimes it is nice to be "just a couple" for an hour or three. It allows us to clear our heads, so to speak. We don't do anything crazy or irresponsible, so why not?

We're also always very happy to return home to our sweet lo.

I also leave dd to go to the gym most days, and to go to class (although she is with her father). And while I do miss her, I'm also glad I have these other things in my life.

I almost always take her with me to do the shopping, though- she loves to grocery shop! And she put smiles on so many faces, it really gets me.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

In our circle of friends, it's common for children to be with a parent as much as possible. DH doesn't "keep" the kids in the sense that you're mentioning (putting him in the same category as other relatives). He's their dad; he's equal to me in terms of ability/desire to care for the children. Whichever one of us has something to do where we can't take the kids, the other has them.

As for shopping and the like, I do the grocery shopping on Friday nights after the kids are in bed. They usually go with me for other shopping and errands. I do go to therapy, and they don't go there with me. DH and I go out once every 3-4 weeks for a date night, but we spend most of our couple time after they're in bed.


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

It is most certainly common. I think Mothers' Day Out is a prime example of parents leaving their children in a day care to "get stuff done". I can see this being a good option for parents who don't have relatives or friends nearby who have appointments and things that need to be attended. I take the fact that we live near to both sets of grandparents for granted, not to mention the fact that they are all generally responsible and mindful babysitters. It's easy to forget about those isolated families who don't have that support system or safety net.

There have been occasions, mind you few and far between, where DH and I have left DS with a set of grandparents to do something. It was either a special date or rarely something that wasn't kid-friendly, though I can only think of one occasion in which the kid-friendliness was an issue. But the in-laws watched him then, and grandparents have been the babysitters every other time too.

I don't see my child as a hinderance to "getting stuff done", though it does take more energy and time to do it with a toddler. I can imagine it's harder the more kids you have.

I will say that I am very attached to DS, and I don't feel comfortable leaving him for more than a couple of hours or so at a time, with a few months in between each occasion.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Not only is it common, it is encouraged.

I have been truly surprised by all the people in my life that have suggested that I take some time to "get away" from the kids. It seems like the first thing anyone will say to you if you are having any challenges in your life is, "Why don't you get a baby sitter and take some time for yourself." It's the modern day Mother's cure all.

Not only that, in this culture, it seems that people truly believe that you are doing yourself harm if you are around your kids 24/7. Surely I must be headed for a mental break down since I have not had a weekly "day out" in 6 years. Nobody could possibly survive that intact.

OP, I am glad to hear that it is a cultural thing. It's nice to know that I'm not abnormal for feeling more comfortable with my kids in tow.


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## seaheroine (Dec 24, 2004)

DD went to MIL's house a few days a week while I was still working PT. Now that I'm not working anymore, MIL still wants her to come over two days a week. She is very attached to DD and finds a lot of meaning in watching her. So, those two days she's over there about 9:00 - 4:00 and I can do whatever I need to do -- gardening, resting, homework during the school year, grocery shopping, etc. I feel really blessed in this situation. I've been feeling so sick during this pregnancy and to be able to just lie on the couch is such a relief. DD absolutely adores MIL, sprints to see her when she comes over, it is really sweet.

My parents live further away will come over and let us go out to the movies once in awhile, something DH and I love and very rarely get to do since DD's arrival. It is such a treat to be able to have alone time with DH, especially watching a movie together in the theater.

I wouldn't leave DD with a non-relative babysitter right now, except possibly our wonderful next-door neighbor, but I really value my rare alone times and feel grateful that DD is so comfortable with our parents. I'm a much better mama when I get to recharge, too.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

IDK, DS is with DH or I most of the time. Twice a week we took Tae Kwon Do classes together (well, I'm basicly instructing now as I got my black belt finally last january), and my mom would come down on tuesdays to watch DS (my dad was OK watching him on thurs when he doesn't have to work the next day, but when he has to be up at 4:30, not so much







. Other than that DS is with us pretty much all the time. Occasionally we'll go up to canton and drop DS off with my mom and go out to dinner or go see a movie or whatever. And about once or twice a month I'll stop by my mom's and she'll offer to watch DS for a couple hours while I do running around up there by myself - which is a ncie treat. But its not something that *needs* to happen or happens much. But it is nice every now and then to go shopping without DS!!


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

I can't answer from personal perspective, as I've never had a baby. I do believe that different moms need different amount of "me" time. Health, quality of partnership, family network, work, how easy the baby is, all are factors in how burned out a mom can get.

I want to think that I'll be one of the stay at home moms that never tires.







I think I was born to be a mama, and I have a lot of patience and stamina. However, I won't judge those who need more time to themselves.

I agree that some might take it to a whole new level when the baby seems like a burden, but I DO think there is a great value in babies spending time with their grandparents, and I don't think it's that unusual culturally-wise. Multigenerational living is part of many cultures, and surely children historically were raised in households where mom did not spend the whole day alone with the children, yk?


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

DS is with me most of the time when I am not working. I like being with him since we are apart during the week. He normally comes shopping with me and when DH and I go out to eat he is always there too. Sometimes I do need a DS break and I'll drop him off with a friend so I can get my hair done or get grocery shopping done, but that's once in a blue moon.


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## darien (Nov 15, 2005)

I do in-home childcare, and homeschool. I'm often about town with my kids _and_ other moms' kids in tow.









I do feel the irony when someone drops her kids off at my house so that she can have "me" time. Due to my line of work, lack of family in the area, and a stbx who thinks he's still a bachelor,







: I don't really get "me" time. I'd like some! But, I take my kids everywhere, because I want to (usually







).


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I think there are a few things going on with this.

One is the effects of the idea that kids really don't need their parents around much, whereas parents really need their space. I know a couple, for example, who both work full time. They also have a part-time nanny so they can do things on weekends. They like to live baby with the in-laws so they can take a week long vacation to recharge their marraige. As a society, we don't learn that childrearing will really cut into our personal time. A lot of people find being tied down to kids really hard at first, and society doesn't support them in becoming comfortable with that - rather, it encourages them to find other solutions.

Another is that especially in some places, a lot of things aren't very kid-friendly. So it is more difficult for parents to take their kids to those places.

Then there is the fact that with two full time working parents, the time to get other, necessary things done, is limited. Running a household, raising kids, and two full time jobs is honestly more than is reasonable in a lot of ways.

Many families have not got the option of extended family watching kids, or being around a lot with the parents at home even, to ease the burden. The only option is hired childcare.

And we have to "watch" our kids so much more than parents of earlier generations. As young kid I spent a lot of time running around the neighborhood on my own, and other kids parents kept an eye out, as did my mom. If I went to the playground, certianly by the time I was 5, my mom didn't come with me, and my little sister might well tag along. So parents could actually do more than one thing at once. Also, some parents really feel kids need to be entertained at all times. So child-care can actually take their full attention much of the time they are engaged in it.


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## notjustmamie (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I want to think that I'll be one of the stay at home moms that never tires.







I think I was born to be a mama, and I have a lot of patience and stamina.

That's what I thought before I had a baby. I was completely shocked at how HARD it was for me. I hope your expectations are closer to reality than mine were!! (That's sincere, by the way, not sarcastic--I know sometimes it can be hard to tell







)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
Many families have not got the option of extended family watching kids, or being around a lot with the parents at home even, to ease the burden. The only option is hired childcare.

This has certainly been the case for us. My dad lives 1,000 miles away and my in-laws live 10,000 miles away. I have one brother who lives nearby, but he and his wife both work full time plus are involved with a lot of volunteer projects that require time during the evenings and weekends. We've lived here for 8 months and they've watched DD once.

Now, we tend to take DD with us wherever we go, but that's partly a factor of wanting to spend time together and partly a factor of not having the money for a sitter.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oriole* 
I can't answer from personal perspective, as I've never had a baby. I do believe that different moms need different amount of "me" time. Health, quality of partnership, family network, work, how easy the baby is, all are factors in how burned out a mom can get.

I agree totally. I need more me time than I ever expected I would. I know what caused it...it's hard to process the birth trauma, let alone the loss of my son, when my kids are constantly around and in my face, needing attention. I simply don't have the emotional energy they need from me.

I'm fortunate, because I have both dh and ds1. During the day, while they're at work and school, my mom watches the little ones, if necessary (for an OB appointment, for example). But, if I just need to get out and recharge, my little ones get their dad or big brother. Actually, right now, dh has the kids at the aquarium, to see the new baby beluga...and I slept in until 10:00. It was wonderful.

I don't know how common it is, though. I don't really know that many people with kids irl, and the ones I do know, I don't know that well, for the most part (a few local MDC mamas, and some others from the local homelearning community). I know little or nothing about the details of their lives.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

I'm not really sure how common it is. I don't have any family around here or I would jump on the chance to go to the grocery store without 3 kids in tow. When I had only my firstborn, I loved taking him everywhere. Now, it's hard. I feel like the poor baby spends half her life in her carseat, with me running errands and the older boys' various activities. I think it would be good for her to be able to just stay home sometimes with a sitter, so she could actually get a regular nap schedule and not have to be carted all over town.(Of course, I'll probably never actually hire a sitter, b/c I'm a cheapskate and as a SAHM I feel like it's my job.)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

OP: I just realized that you said these people were co-workers. Honestly, when I WOH, I was pretty much always with ds1 when I wasn't at work. About every six weeks or so, I'd meet a friend for dinner after work (and vent - my marriage was in _bad_ shape). Other than that, ds1 was _always_ with me. I did have co-workers who got a lot of time away from their kids, but I didn't want it. I begrudged every hour I was at work away from him as it was.


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## majormajor (Nov 3, 2006)

we don't do it, but i think it is at least somewhat common. by which i mean, i know a few people who do things like that. sometimes it's because they have a nanny that they've promised 40 hours a week to, but if they aren't actually working that much they use the hours for something else.

i'm more like you OP. when i first heard about people doing this kind of thing, i was kind of surprised. but, to each their own and all!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Not only is it common, it is encouraged.

I have been truly surprised by all the people in my life that have suggested that I take some time to "get away" from the kids. It seems like the first thing anyone will say to you if you are having any challenges in your life is, "Why don't you get a baby sitter and take some time for yourself." It's the modern day Mother's cure all.

Not only that, in this culture, it seems that people truly believe that you are doing yourself harm if you are around your kids 24/7. Surely I must be headed for a mental break down since I have not had a weekly "day out" in 6 years. Nobody could possibly survive that intact.

OP, I am glad to hear that it is a cultural thing. It's nice to know that I'm not abnormal for feeling more comfortable with my kids in tow.











I do have "me time" and sometimes I need more of it than at other times but what I see a lot of is "me time" turning into hours a day of it which seems like a lot. But to each their own!


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

I haven't read all the responses, but where I live, it is highly encouraged. However, the difference with my neighborhood/area is we are all military spouses and there are many times we are alone without our husbands for 6 months to a year at a time. It is encouraged that all moms or dads who are left behind with the kids take some time to just be alone, regroup and be better parents. Many of us aren't around family so friends are all we have (or paid childcare).

When my boys were young, I had family who would come play with the kids for a few hours so my ex and I could get out. Now we don't have that, so I expect to take the baby with us everywhere but still leave the older kids at home. I can still have more "alone" time with DH with just a baby then with 3 older kids.

I can't say it is a bad thing to have some time, but I do think people can do anything in excess and that is where I worry, how much is just staying away from the kids and how much is just a small break.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

If I lived closer to my parents, it's highly likely they would take my kids on Saturdays. Since my kids adore spending time with them it would be a win/win kind of deal. Children completely taking over the lves of their parents isn't _always_ in the best interests of the children or the parents.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

What culture are you from? Certainly, growing up, my mother carted us around most places. As for me, i do the same. I find it more of a nuisance to organise a babysitter, and the whole 'pickup' thing annoys me, because then i am constrained by a time. I' rather just have my kids with me. If they need to nap, they nap in the stroller or on me. Sometimes, this allows me to go to a ...gasp...cafe.

I like spending time with my kids, because basically thats all of think about now anyway. Everything is about them.

I find ways to do other things i like, with them. For eg, i like to read, so i read in the playground.

I find i dont really need a 'break' from them, other than i get already with naps etc.
There are some things i just dont do anymore, like to go the movies. But that can wait.

Maya with ds1 3.75 and ds2 14m


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## angelachristin (Apr 13, 2007)

I think it's pretty common, but I almost NEVER leave my DS, simply because number one I have no one local I could leave him with (no family here except MIL, whom I DO NOT trust, and a few friends who don't parent the way I do so I'd be uncomfortable leaving him there) and secondly, I really enjoy my son and being with him. I am uncomfortable if I am away from him. I do not like it. It makes me nervous. I work from home and I get a break when I'm working while DH takes over. if DH has to work late (when he was working at all, that is!) then MIL comes over to watch DS while I work, but I am right upstairs and can hear everything that goes on and intervene as necessary. I would never leave my DS alone with her unless it was an emergency.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

I did it rarely when my first born was little, but do mother's day out now that I have three. If I had family around it probably wouldn't be necessary.

For shopping, I usually go in the evening when dh is home. I find it really stressful to go to a regular grocery store with three in tow, but Aldi is ok b/c its smaller and only one choice of each thing so I can get through really easily.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I don't know. I swore up and down I'd never be the mom that needs to grocery shop alone. But, 2 very active, very precocious kids later... They just don't do well at the grocery store. Of course, we don't have a babysitter, so they DO go with me, but if I had someone I trusted 100% I might leave them once a week to run my errands for 2 hours. It's no fun for them to be strapped in the car in the FL heat, running errands. I'd much rather them stay home with a fun sitter and PLAY during that time... not to mention that *I* would be less stressed out if I didn't have to chase them like crazy and could just get done with the groceries.









As for a date night, we do that when ever possible, about 2x a month. My mom lives close by and she is very supportive of our parenting ways and the kids adore her. She can put them to sleep, so that's not an issue. I love my dh, and love spending time with him, just talking and being a couple. When we are at home, the kids are our priority and US gets lost in the shuffle. When we try to talk together at home, the kids interrupt, the dogs need to go out, dinner needs to be cooked, ect. If we take 2 hours every other week, we reconnect, recharge and fall in love all over again. We have a very strong marriage.









I love being with my kids. I chose to stay at home so that we CAN spend every waking minute together. They are the light of my life and I am totally devoted to them. That doesn't mean though, that I don't also love to hang out at the bookstore and read a book all alone. Or go grab a drink at happy hour with my good girl friends every now and again.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

It's fairly common.

In general dd goes where I go but once a week a friend comes and pick up dd and takes her to story time at the library along with her own dd. I then meet them for lunch somewhere with a playground. I get about 2 hours without dd then my friend and I get to hang out wile our kids play.

Then on another day of the week I take that same friend's dd and do something for a few hours.

I'm sure someone has said it already (haven't read all the replies) but with how spread out we are these days many people don't have family around to leave kids with.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

I drop off DS next door at the sitters house alot.

Its just myself and DH and we both work full-time (I work nights, he works days). I have her watch ds so I can sleep, cook, clean and get ready to go to work.

I think from an outside perspective it looks like I drop him off alot and then stay at home, but its stuff I really can't get done with him home (or without me getting stressed and late).

I do drop him off to go out with DH (maybe once every 2 weeks), and sometimes for an hour if I just need to decompress and do yoga at home, or whatever. I think its important to know my limits; my life is usually going at a manic pace these days and I need some time to recharge in order to be a better mom. Sometimes I do feel like others might judge me for it though, as if I'm not doing a good enough job as a mom because I don't want to be with my child 24/7.

I think it depends on so much:

a wild 2 yo
no yard
small apt.
100 degree heat that you can't just go out and play in.

I think its too much to assume that a mom should be cooped up all day with a toddler screaming at her that he needs to go out and do something.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I have seen it quite a bit. I think it would be nice to have relatives close enough to be able to have a break from time to time.
I think people can get burnt out from their kids, same as they would at there paid jobs if they are there too long.
I have three very energetic boys that the only real down time I get is after my DH gets home from work and we put the two oldest to bed. He will take our youngest so I can grab a quick shower.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

nak

well dd is only 7 months so i am green behind the ears.

but up to now we have had no problem enjoying a night out w/ dd along.

that being said, i know from experience w/ my siblings that dd is very mellow. if i had a kid like some of my siblings, i might be inclined to drop him/her off w/ a babysitter for a night out, too.

in fact, i remember very clearly the day i turned 13 and finished my babysitting program w/ the local hospital. my mom practically







:







: her way out the door lol.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

I do lots without my kids in tow. I do not shop with my kids. That includes groceries, household, clothing, etc. We have dedicated shopping trips where they bring their own money to spend, and I occasionally bring my kids to the grocery store to pick up a few things, but as a rule any shopping that requires concentration and thinking is not done with my kids. I think this has a lot to do with my kids' temperaments. We are all happier this way.

We need space.

We also have limited time, and I don't want to spend our time being miserable and managing everyone's needs while trying to run around town doing errands. I'd rather get the stuff done much more quickly while enjoying the peace of not worrying about everyone else's immediate needs are, then coming home to spend quality time together.
We also do not have family around, so my partner and I rely a lot on each other to watch the kids while we each have time to do things we need to do.


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## madsommer (Aug 22, 2008)

It is very common....but some people genuinely need the time to recharge. I do most of my recharging at night after DS is in bed or I'll sneak in a nap while he's also down. Like a few other posters though, I can't stand being away from DS for more than an hour or two. It just makes me uneasy. And I don't like leaving him with ILs so I prefer to just take him with me wherever I go. He's always pleasant and enjoys running errands with me so I don't mind so much. Even if my parents lived here, I probably wouldn't drop him off for long extended periods of time...just not my style.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

I think as with most things its a balancing act. I know when I first went back to work after DS was born (he was 9 weeks old...I didn't have paid leave and I took 10 of my 12 fmla weeks) I found after a few months that I NEEDED some grown up time on occasion. I worked day care... so I did babies/toddlers all day long and then I came home and did baby all evening and all night long. It was completely exhausting, and I honestly think I bordered on PPD. Anyway, I would from time to time arrange for dh to stay home so that I could go out with the girls. Or arrange for my parents to watch DS so that DH and I could go do something. Then I quit the daycare thing and got a job teaching in the public schools. It's summer and I'm able to be home every day... and I'll admit that if I really need to "get something done" I'll arrange to have someone watch DS... for example, we were having someone come to our home for an appointment and the house was a horrible mess (I have a toddler and it was my first week home after the school year). I had all of 2 hours to get things in shape and my brother was available. So I called him up to come over and take care of DS so that I could focus on getting the house in order quickly. Because let's face it, doing chores with a toddler in tow is not a fast process. And next week, I will arrange to have someone watch DS so that I can go get a pedicure with my mom. I just don't think that doing that every once in a while is harmful to children. As a matter of fact, I think that it's a healthy thing to make sure that, as a parent and a human being, I have some down time for myself so that I can have the energy to be a good mom.
All that said, I think it's one thing to arrange for this kind of down time or "to get things done" every so often. Even a regularly scheduled break every week is okay. However, I think it's another thing to work all week, plus have nanny on the weekends so you can "get things done" plus go on regular week long vacations without the kids plus schedule a babysitter one night a week so that you can get some time to yourself. I understand the rationale behind it, but I think that this kind of situation is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard.


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## ex_voto (Feb 11, 2009)

I have not had a chance to read all of the responses, but I read most of the first page.

It may be very common to take time to oneself, but I don't find time away from DD necessary at all. I have only one infant, 7 months. We are nursing exclusively, she does not accept a bottle or cup. I am happiest this way and I believe she is too. I believe the mother-child dyad evolved in this way for a reason.

When she gets a little older and is physically able to be away from me for more extended periods of time (a few hours) then I may not mind leaving DD someplace for a play date, or with family to visit.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

It's really common, unfortunately.

Quote:

I think it's one thing to arrange for this kind of down time or "to get things done" every so often. Even a regularly scheduled break every week is okay. However, I think it's another thing to work all week, plus have nanny on the weekends so you can "get things done" plus go on regular week long vacations without the kids plus schedule a babysitter one night a week so that you can get some time to yourself. I understand the rationale behind it, but I think that this kind of situation is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard.
THat's more or less how I see it.

I drop my toddler off to shop because I CANNOT shop with her. I was able to up until recently, but not now.

I drop my infant, a tiny, vulnerable baby off at an on-site facility so that I can take my daughter to swimming. I really don't like to, but the only other option is no swimming for my daughter for the next five months and I can't tell you how much she loves that activity. It's a special time for us, time she really needs, and she just thrives in the pool. Even the instructors noted how much she seems to love it. I could never deny that to her because her sister has to be on me 24/7. Especially when her sister seems to do fine in the nursery!

I do think it's normal and natural to share child-care duties, and for children to spend lots of time with their grandparents while their parents work. I don't think it's normal for people to spend all their time off away from their kids.

Though, I don't think pacifiers are normal and my daughter actually prefers one to nursing at times because, well that's a different story but let's just say, I never thought I'd use one but she really likes it and she'd be on her thumb otherwise!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I've always tried to get a break/time to myself here and there. It was harder when the kids were tiny, but I still needed a bit of space -- whatever I could I could manage while keeping everyone happy.

I also worked part time for a bit and my MIL babysat.


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## sarhaj (Jun 14, 2009)

I do not do that. I take my baby everywhere. If I can't take her I may not go or my husband watches her. I have never left her with someone. I don't feel comfortable leaving my baby with someone. She is 7 months old. Do you think thats wrong? Should I leave her with someone?


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## battymama (Jan 15, 2008)

I think it is quite common, dh and i have just started to let mil take our little one a day a week for a few hours. But honestly that is work time as we both run a small business, and we get a lot of stuff done in that time so we can be more focused on her when she is home.

I think it also depends on the person, i grew up an only child with one parent, so i am used to a lot of me time. I get touched out really easily and was going a bit nutty trying to get photos and filing and all that stuff done with a baby in toe. Mine is the sort that is fine with others out and about, but if she knows i am near then thats where she wants to be, trying to get good lighting and line up a goot shot outside while she is screaming inside with dh is not so awesome. The few hours a week since she has been 12 months has been really great.

sorry this is long, but sometimes it is for the best to have a break, i know i have really needed it, my mental health has suffered because i was trying to do it all. But i know up until recently it was the oposite way, it was more stresfull for me to be without her.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarhaj* 
I do not do that. I take my baby everywhere. If I can't take her I may not go or my husband watches her. I have never left her with someone. I don't feel comfortable leaving my baby with someone. She is 7 months old. Do you think thats wrong? Should I leave her with someone?

oh, no, not at all! I think that doing what you and your baby are comfortable with is the best thing to do. There's definitely nothing wrong with keeping her close. It's all about your limits and your comfort zone, imo. Your daughter is lucky to have a devoted mama










If you guys decided you wanted to structure some time apart, I think that would be okay, too, and you'd still be a great mom. But I don't think there is any reason to, if it isn't something you want or need.


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## greenmamapagan (Jan 5, 2008)

It's very common here too (Australia) but it's not for me. When I was working I hated every second that I was away from DD and I certainly wouldn't have left her with anyone if I wasn't being paid to do something without her. DH cared for her while I worked and once his work arrangements changed so that he couldn't do that anymore I quit. Now that I don't work I'm with her 24/7 unless DH takes her out. IMO since I'm not woh it my _job_ to have DD with me until she is old enough to actually want to be with someone else. As for my two week old, well I can't leave him for long enough to have a shower


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## boringscreenname (Sep 26, 2007)

DS is with one of us all the time. It's really not that big of a deal, we still go out and do stuff, we just take him along. My family all lives out of state and DP's family is unacceptable for various reasons (drug users and alcoholics, plus domestic violence issues).

For the most part he's really well-behaved in public. Once I took him to a bookstore alone, and I just bought him a little toy/book, and he entertained himself for awhile so I could get a cup of coffee and read a bit.

We also both work full-time, and on our off days we always give the other person a break, and some alone time. Plus my job is easy and there's very little to do so I get plenty of alone time at work. I don't feel stressed out or overwhelmed very often and this situation is working out wonderfully.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

When my daughter was under a year, I rarely left her at all. Dh and I had maybe a handful of date nights while my mom or Mil watched dd, and occasionally I would leave dd with Mil for a couple of hours while I ran an errand that needed to be done without dd (shopping for clothes for myself was difficult with dd because she hated the stroller at that time and you can't try clothes on with a baby in a sling or mei tai). I also went out once a month for a mom's night out with friends while dh watched dd. But frankly during the time she was exclusively breastfeeding (until about 13 months) leaving her was stressful for me. However when dd was about 11 months dh started working out of town 3-4 days a week and I was on my own. I started leaving dd with my mil more regularly because I really needed the break during the times he was away. The truth was though that when she was little I could go almost anywhere with her. She enjoyed being worn on my body. She could easily nap in a stroller or sleep on me. She still napped several times a day so if we were out and about during one nap and it was lousy there was always another nap to make up for it.

Then around a year and a half our lives changed. We moved 400 miles away from family and friends. DH no longer traveled, but was now working from an office instead of at home, so running to the store without dd was never an option. Neither was leaving her with a trusted grandparent. Also at the this time dd became increasingly difficult to take out on errands. She started fighting to get down when I'd wear her. She would scream to get out of the cart or stroller because all she wanted to do was run. It was obvious that taking her on errands was frustrating and exhausting for both of us. That's when I decided to look for some alternative care. I now have dd in a great home daycare 2 days a week. It's small and loving, and dd is so happy there. Sometimes I do feel guilty, but I know she is having a great time and I use that time to do things she wouldn't be enjoying like grocery shopping, haircuts, and doctor's appointments. I'm 7 months pregnant now and it is really nice to know I have a 2 days a week where I can take it easy and rest a bit if that's what I need.

I don't think I would have put her in childcare if we still lived near family who could help out occasionally, but we don't and where we live now finding occasional day time hired help is hard. Most babysitters/nannies in our area understandably want regular hours, likewise the home daycares. The situation we've worked out is what is most affordable for us, plus I really think the consistency has made it easier for dd. I think she'd have a harder time separating if she was being left with someone she only saw occasionally. I'm also looking forward to the one on one time the new babe and I will get to have while dd is at daycare. Dd had so much one on one attention, I really think it's nice that this baby will get at least some of what dd got in that respect.

Dh and I also have the occasional date night, but they are pretty few and far between. We have made friends with a younger couple who doesn't yet have kids, but they love Jules and have watched her for us on several occasions. Also when we do go home to visit dh's parents usually watch dd a bit for us as well.

Honestly though I think that age has a lot to do with it. I think that babies under a year should be with their mom's as much as possible. They need to be near their source of nourishment and comfort and they're usually happy to hang out in the sling doing whatever mom is doing. But as they get older not only are they capable of spending a few hours away from mom they also (depending on temperment) may not want to be worn or brought along on mom's errands. Of course every child is different. I know many children who aren't ready to be away from their parents at 2. I think it's really about what works for individual families. There are so many variables. But it's funny because there seems to often be a mixed message. Many times in other forums (often the sleep and discipline boards) mom's are advised to seek outside help so they can catch up on sleep or so that they can run errands without having to fight battles with children who hate the cart or run away in stores. Yet here I'm hearing an awful lot of voices saying that it shouldn't be necessary. For me having a day or two to myself is a luxury, but one that does make me a better parent when I am with my child.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

In my circle of friends, family and others, it's not common.
We take our kids everywhere.
I'm away from them for a few things that I can't bring them too, and the rest of the time I really want to be with them. My dear works out of the house, so he wants to be with them all the time when he's not at work of course. He rarely does stuff after work w/o them.
Spending time together is the most important thing to us.
We get "me" and "us" time after the kids are in bed, there's some hours there when kids are asleep that we can spend time together just the two of us. And we enjoy that too, but don't need to be away from the kids to do it. We sit around the kitchen table talking a lot, we love that. Or watch an episode of something together, or whatever.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

You know what else is common?

Mothers judging other mothers.


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
You know what else is common?

Mothers judging other mothers.

No doubt. These "I'm a better mom than you" threads are getting tiresome.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

For me it isn't a judgement, it is literally a "I can't wrap my mind around it". I worked when my oldest was a baby. Working *was* my time away from him, working *was* my "adult time". And as hard as it was to be away from him, it is equally hard for me, if not harder, to be *with* him (and his now two sibilings) all of the time. It isn't judgement to not *understand* how someone who already has to be away from their child would purposely choose even *more* time away from their child. I don't understand how a house that isn't really lived in most of the waking hours can really get all that dirty. I can't understand wanting weekings away from your child when you already spend every week day away from him. It isn't judement...I just don't *get* it. I understand having to work - I was in the same situation. It's the being with your child only when it is convenient that I don't get. Children aren't accessories, only to be pulled out when they look nice.

*And before I get jumped on - I am not referring to a once a month date night, I am not referring to a girl's night out for a single mom. The situation I am referring to is one like that was described in the OP.*


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## Mbella (Apr 5, 2007)

Just last night we left dd and ds with my parents for about seven hours so we can go to a wedding and last month we did the same so my dh and I could go out for a few hours on my birthday to celebrate. If we had more money we might go out more often together. Usually the kids are with me or both of us.

Once a week my MIL takes 3 yo dd out or plays with her at our house while I take 13 mo ds with me to Weight Watchers and grocery shopping. I don't like taking both of them grocery shopping with me unless I have to. I don't see anything wrong with it. I have never left ds alone with her and still don't feel comfortable with that yet. He is almost always with me, but sometimes dh will take him to the store with him to give me a break.

When I was a working mom I would pick up dd right after work. I wanted to be with her as much as possible and if I had an errand to do I would take her with me. It really bugs me that my working mom friend won't pick up her ds right after work EVERY DAY so that she can go shopping or get a manicure or something for 2 hours.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Is it common for a parents to leave children with trusted adults in order to get things done more easily or to take time for themselves?

In a word: yes.

I'm really befuddled that the scenarios described by the OP leave her at such a loss. The one guy and his wife only have Mondays off together. One day a week! The grandmother takes care of their baby so the parents can spend time with each other on that one day. To me that spells "prioritizing my marriage" not "neglecting my child."


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I also wanted to add something that I was thinking about the other day (and I think it was actually mentioned earlier). My family likes to tease me when my kids get "unruly" and say "Just imagine how your granny did it when she had three kids in four years and her husband was away at war and she was only nineteen years old". While I would never try to take away from her experience...one of the differences is that she (A) lived with her parents and had her mother's as well as her sibiling's help in getting things done and (B) when the girls were old enough to walk, they would basically leave out in the morning, play all day and come in for supper. We have turned into a society of helicopter parents and we don't do thinks like that anymore.


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## rhubarbarin (May 2, 2008)

The majority of people with kids I know do this.

It didn't happen in my family, but it was because my parents couldn't afford childcare and we didn't have family nearby - my mom would have preferred to shop, etc without us along.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Is it common for a parents to leave children with trusted adults in order to get things done more easily or to take time for themselves?

In a word: yes.

I'm really befuddled that the scenarios described by the OP leave her at such a loss. The one guy and his wife only have Mondays off together. One day a week! The grandmother takes care of their baby so the parents can spend time with each other on that one day. To me that spells "prioritizing my marriage" not "neglecting my child."









:


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Is it common for a parents to leave children with trusted adults in order to get things done more easily or to take time for themselves?

In a word: yes.

I'm really befuddled that the scenarios described by the OP leave her at such a loss. The one guy and his wife only have Mondays off together. One day a week! The grandmother takes care of their baby so the parents can spend time with each other on that one day. To me that spells "prioritizing my marriage" not "neglecting my child."

Amen!

My DS thrives when his father and I have a strong, loving marriage. We left him with my MIL yesterday at 2 PM and picked him up at 8:15 PM. We met a friend, chatted with friend, and went to dinner alone. We had a great time and reconnected after all the busyness of the last few weeks. DS didn't want to go home from his grandparents and had a great time.


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## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

It's common, and healthy.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
You know what else is common?

Mothers judging other mothers.











It seems like MDC supports the 'village' community to raise a child, yet there's always a condescending attitude towards the mamas that utilize outside help.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PPK* 









It seems like MDC supports the 'village' community to raise a child, yet there's always a condescending attitude towards the mamas that utilize outside help.

Meh. Yes and no. Like I said it is a good idea to an extent. There are, however, parents who are spending more time away from their children for themselves then they are with their children. It can be overdone and as far as I can see that's all a lot of these moms are saying. Not "why are you doing this?" but "why are you doing this so much?" Just what I am seeing on this thread...


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

It is totally dependent on the family. I get a day now and then to do what I need to do by myself, and it does make me feel much better and recharged. Shopping with a "spirited" almost 3 y/o can be _extremely_ challenging. I have family who offer to take care of her so I gladly accept, plus I am pregnant and it is nice to have a day to chill at home and rest.

My SIL however *always* has the kids, she takes them everywhere, driving them all over the place. She never gets a break, but honestly she likes to have the appearance of that frazzled time crunched mom who does it all for the kids because that's what you have to do. I don't agree with that for my own sanity and I just wouldn't be like that.

Recently I ran into a woman who has a DD who is about a year younger than my DD, I saw her at the farmer's market 3 weekends in a row. My DD didn't want to go with and wanted to stay with daddy, this woman made a comment saying "Oh you just never have your daughter with you." Uh yeah I do have her all. the. time. I am a sahm, I have her everyday during the week 8 hours a day and she as I said before is a very spirited child. She is busy, busy and yes I do need a break, so does her dad. So I did take her to the farmer's market yesterday, did I run into the same woman, uh no of course not. Whatever, to each their own.

I think it comes down to what makes your family function the best-if you need a break by golly take one if you have the support of a family or a great sitter. If not, and you don't need that, that's great too. For us we do need a break from our DD every now and hen, and she needs one from us too.


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## UhOhWhatNow (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't know what's common as I don't really know people with kids. But, I have a hard time leaving my son. DH and I go on dates all the time (like bowling night, ball games at Tropicana Field, etc) and we take our baby with us. We even took him to a Frank Zappa tribute band concert. We had a lot of fun, and when he naps we have our mom and dad time







I wouldn't have much fun if baby was somewhere else. I'd worry.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:

It isn't judement...I just don't *get* it
Why do you need to *get* the way someone else's family works?

You don't know what these mothers and fathers do inside their houses or with their families. You don't know their children. You don't know the way their family works. And it's absolutely none of your business anyway.

Personally, I don't *get* nursing beyond toddlerhood, unschooling, or elimination communication.

And since I don't *get* those philosophies, I don't follow them. But I sure as heck do not care who else does.


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## granola_mom (Jun 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Not only is it common, it is encouraged.

I have been truly surprised by all the people in my life that have suggested that I take some time to "get away" from the kids. It seems like the first thing anyone will say to you if you are having any challenges in your life is, "Why don't you get a baby sitter and take some time for yourself." It's the modern day Mother's cure all.

Why not? You make it sound like a bad thing to be away from your kids at all.

Honestly I think it's so different in this cultural because the culture *IS* so different. It is far more common elsewhere for lots and lots of extended family to live _together_ or close by to each other, so everyone helps out, it's just second nature. There may also be a much greater sense of community. In our culture, it is much more common for people to live far from their parents and extended family, and there is definitely less of a sense of community and communal support. IME it's a big deal to arrange for a friend to watch your kid while you want to quickly run an errand- and if you have no family around or very little, and a husband who works all the time, when do you get any time for yourself unless you have a babysitter? And that shouldn't be a bad thing.

Sure, it's fine to want to spend lots of time with your kids and bring them along whenever possible, but it's not always possible. Sometimes it's inappropriate or even dangerous. Honestly if I didn't have any paid help for dd I would never be able to do things like get my hair cut, go to the doctor or dentist, go to appointments, get banking done, etc. If I had any family at all nearby, then it would be possible but like many many other people in this country I don't. I would love to be part of the type of culture you are describing where there's lots of family and friends around willing to help but we don't. And honestly, how can you say that you don't go a little crazy without some help sometimes? If you're one of those posters, you probably have a partner who helps a lot or something similar.


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## babymommy2 (May 14, 2009)

In my experience people I know who have fmaily near by use family to go out more, and people who don't have family have their kids with them all the time. There is some exchanging of watching kids for appointments that are better without kids. It is hard to find teenage sitters because they could easly get a better paying job at Tim Hortons or anywhere else. I fall into the no family catergory, also had babies who didn't take bottles so my big highlight alone when I had an infant were hair cuts. I didn't leave my children overnight at all until the oldest was 4 years old and I had to drive 9 hours to take them to their grandparents to do it. If they lived closer I definately would have done this at an earlier age. I would take advantage of help from family if I could. There are just somethings that are hard with kids intow. Banking appointments, dentist, buying christmas presents for your kids.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
You know what else is common?

Mothers judging other mothers.

Yeah. I feel like this thread is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Obviously the OP already knows it's common enough, since so many of her co-irkers are doing it. This smells like a big old pile of judgement. Sorry, but that's how it reads to me.


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## Teenytoona (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PPK* 









It seems like MDC supports the 'village' community to raise a child, yet there's always a condescending attitude towards the mamas that utilize outside help.

You know, I don't think MDC as a whole does this, but I believe I've seen it here and there. It saddens me because I know growing up (and even now, still) my extended family was priceless to me. I'd hate to deny my children the same experiences. I understand some folks don't have anyone reliable around them to have this "village" but I see nothing wrong with people who do have a village taking advantage of it. In fact, I wish I could grant anyone who wanted it a village of trustworthy adults to spend time lovingly with their kids. I'm happy to know that my kids are well loved by many and that plenty of people think nothing of spending a few hours together with the kids.

Some of us (like myself) just aren't the best day-to-day momma material. I love my DD, I love my DSC, but you know what? If I had to be with them 24/7 we would have a horrible horrible relationship. I'm not the best very-involved, day-to-day mom type. I do far better as a WOHM than I ever would being a SAHM. Nothing wrong with a person knowing their own weaknesses and doing their best to work within those parameters. That way it benefits both kid(s) and the parent(s).


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Why do you need to *get* the way someone else's family works?

You don't know what these mothers and fathers do inside their houses or with their families. You don't know their children. You don't know the way their family works. And it's absolutely none of your business anyway.

Personally, I don't *get* nursing beyond toddlerhood, unschooling, or elimination communication.

And since I don't *get* those philosophies, I don't follow them. But I sure as heck do not care who else does.

Umm...well - because we were discussing it in a thread online? I never claimed it to be "my business" nor do I walk up to strangers and ask them how they parent to make sure that I "approve". You sound rather defensive.


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

I need lots of me time but I usually get it in the morning before everyone gets up







. Plus my kids are at independant ages, which is good. Their grandmothers often take them, like once a week or a couple times a month, because they want to do things with them. Like MIL is taking the kids tomorrow night to see a movie.

A few times a month I have obligations in which I can't take the kids but in those cases, family watches them (usually DH is he's not busy or I arrange something with the kids grandparents). For example, I have appointments in the afternoon tomorrow I can't bring the kids along to tomorrow so FIL is watching them. They have never ever been in the care of someone who is not family.

However I bring them everywhere with me. Dentist/doctors appointments, shopping, well, basically anything! Since we unschool they learn a lot but it is amazing how many people are shocked the kids are always with me. It is not common here as far as I can tell.


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## 2pinks (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snuzzmom* 
Yeah. I feel like this thread is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Obviously the OP already knows it's common enough, since so many of her co-irkers are doing it. This smells like a big old pile of judgement. Sorry, but that's how it reads to me.

I agree. I have three children. One a "tween" doing ALL the "tween" attitude things and a little girl in the throes of "terrble two's" as well as a 4mos who nurses very frequently. You bet your butt I'm gonna take help that is offered and get some "me" time. It's so much easier and faster shopping by myself than getting 4 people ready, in and out of vehicles, wraps, buggies, stores, etc. Shopping by myself is the only time I have for "me" time and even that is rare. I refuse to feel guilty or allow myself to be judged because I'm-gasp!-human and need my batteries and my MARRIAGE to be recharged once or twice a month.


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

I often wonder about why some people seem to need that extra time without their child in tow. I don't think about in a put down the other mother sense- rather for me to figure out why I don't find having me time a priority. DH and I spent over a decade working towards having a child. Now that we finally have a child, there is nothing I rather do than spend time with him. He's almost four and I know the time goes by fast. We already had years and years of time to nurture our relationship and do stuff for us. Now our priority is our son and for us it works that we are with him. If we had had a baby year two or three into our marriage it may have been different. People are at different places in their lives hence the need for different lifestyles.

I sincerely hope this does not come across as judgement towards those who do things differently. We get a bit of flack for not doing stuff without our son and I don't like feeling like I need to justify our choices. I don't really care what others do- so long as no kids are hurt in the process.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Well...

When I had 3 children under 2, I didn't go much of anywhere, because I was sitting down with 2 children on my teats 24/7 for the first 6 months and a little less frequently after. Unlike the tirelessly good mothers out there, sometimes I felt...burnt out. I did not go skipping through the grocery aisles with pure joy at being surrounded with my childrens presence (either in 2 grocery carts or in a triple stroller that was a pain in the donkey to haul around), I really kind of wanted some alone time so that I could get the shopping done in 45 minutes instead of 2 hours (15 minutes for 3 diaper changes/pottying, 5 minutes loading everyone in the car, 5 minutes to take apart the freakin' triple stroller and arrange it in the trunk, 15 minutes to drive sometimes with at least 1 wailing baby the whole time, 5 minutes to set up the triple, 5 mins to transfer everyone, 15 minutes of shopping, and then the reverse to get home--this is assuming no blowouts in the car, not needing to stop to nurse at some point, ect.)

Now, I was lucky. All three of my kids are pretty easy going and laid back and have been that way from birth.

When I was a nanny, and when I had one easygoing kid, oh boy did I look down upon people who dared to offend my sensibilities by implying that someone might want to do something by themselves even though they COULD take their child/ren with them. You see how stubborn I am and how the universe chose to enlighten me on this subject.

There are lots of things I don't get in this world. There are lots of things I'm not going to get in this world. I frankly don't expect anyone who doesn't get why someone might actually feel they need some kid-free space to ever get it. I know I certainly don't get why people can't get that some people are different from them and you're not going to get what other people get all the time anyway, it just seems natural to me. But oh well.

If you want to have your kids everywhere, that's lovely. If other people don't, then ya know, just leave them alone. Maybe your kids will someday tell you, "Jeez, mom, did you HAVE to DRAG us EVERYWHERE all the time?!?" And maybe mine will say, "You ripped me off, because you didn't take me to your dental/gynecological appointments/the bank/the grocery store all the time/to wait in line at the post office." Or maybe all of our kids will be just fine. Or it might depend on their mood that day.

You're always going to be able to look at someone else and see how they're screwing up, and how they're selfish. Guess what. There's other people who think they see how YOU are screwing up and selfish.

Who cares if it's common or not. That has no relevance to what YOU or anyone else does. Just enjoy your family. If you need to have them all close by all the time, or you need some quiet time to yourself to make that happen, so be it.


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## battymama (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah i kinda got that vibe from this thread here too. I just wanted to add that you dont know the full story. i know a few examples of these.

One was when i was working in childcare, we had a 6 week earliest that children could start, but one mum arranged for her baby to start at 2 weeks by special arangement. Do you feel your judgment rising? your outrage? Well this mother had to do so, she had fallen pregnant and she and her husband had decided she would be a sahm, he was a very well paid business man so no probs right? so she went on maternity leave early as the pregnancy was hard, then she had a miscarrage. And then fell pregnant again before she went to work, again it was hard so she stayed on maternity leave. Well her hubby was diagnosed with cancer not long after, and had to go on some pretty heavy duty treatments, and not long after that he lost his job. So it came to 2 weeks after baby was born, her maternity leave run out, hubbie still recovering from chemo and trying to find a gob and in danger of loosing their house, she went back to work and put the child in childcare so her hubbie could recooperate and work on getting a job. 6 months later her hubbie found another job that enabled her to be a sahm, it took him awhile to find one that paid enough.

Dont judge people, you dont know the whole story, you may think you do but you dont, especially something like this.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

We have friends that work full time and have their baby in daycare - but nearly every single moment outside of daycare she is with them. When they have tried to have a date night or something, they were unhappy and missed her. So they have decided until she's older, they will do things together. I can totally understand.

I had to work part time when ds was younger and my Mom watched him. Otherwise he was pretty much with me, except for a few nights when I would put him to bed, let my sis sleep with him and go out on a date with dh.









Now that ds is older, we feel just fine being away from him - and he's fine with it too. A few nights with my Mom and Dad here and there and we are looking for a babysitter to set up a regular date night every other week. Dh and I need time alone - ds is great and fun, but also Aspergers and sometimes we just need some US time.

I don't fault anyone for needing more "me" or alone time. I think that is very individual and a very real need for some people.


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## RunnerDuck (Sep 12, 2003)

I've always wondered if anyone else looked at "Am I that weird?" or "Is this really common?" type threads and saw the actual statement as being, "Behold the ways in which I am both a superior mother yet utterly modest because I am not even aware of it, even though I really am!"

I guess now I know.









I don't know how "common" date nights and such are. To be honest I don't really have any desire to go out with DH and pretend we are just a couple - I really feel like our biggest thing in common now is our kids, which is kind of worrisome. I wish I had a desire to just go off and be a couple and be all excited about just each other like we did when we were dating but ... oh well. I'm kind of jealous of people who still feel that way. I can see myself saying "Can you believe they are getting a sitter for a week while they go to Hawaii? Don't they realize once you have kids, you don't get to go those things?" as if I were all superior for always being with my kids... truthfully I'd be thinking "I have no interest in getting our own room and getting it on for the sake of getting it on any more, what is wrong with me?"

Maybe that means we NEED a vacation together before it's beyond hope, LOL.

As for leaving the kids somewhere to get things done... I generally don't. I don't know many people I could really ask, for one thing... for another I don't like to burden other people! I don't even like to leave DH in charge of the babies which drives him nuts, he thinks it means I think he is not capable. But I will say grocery shopping with a 5 year old is a royal pain in the ass. The babies are easy - one rides in the cart, one rides on my back, they don't ask for much. (Though the one on my back did once try to shoplift at Trader Joe's...) But my son will run ahead, hide behind displays, beg and whine for things "It's not NICE to not let your son have a donut!!!!!" or "You never let me have caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaandy" and so on... I recently discovered the Giant Eagles with "Eagles Nests" where you can leave your kid for an hour while you shop - they can color, play on the computer, play with other kids - he LOVES it. He begs to go. We have to drive further to get to those stores but if I have a big trip, we do it.

We also go to Ikea JUST so he can play in child care, LOL.

So I see no problems with leaving your kids somewhere while you get things done. I don't think doing so makes one a bad mom. I don't think the kid being with mom 100% is necc. best for the kid in all cases.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

I think it's fairly common in general, but not where I live and definitely not with DH and I.

Our kids are always with us and we're almost always together as a family. We're the weirdos who are all together at every lesson, camp, activity, school function, practice, game, wedding, birthday, Scout function, vacation, etc. All 4 of us go to everything. I know it's not common but it's just the way we do things and it works for us. We love being together and we know that in 10 years, both kids will be out of the house so we're all taking advantage of it while we can.

When the kids were smaller, I'd color my own hair, cut my own hair, take them to the grocery store, mall, dentist, whatever. Now I do all of that while they're in school. Also, with them in school, I volunteer there 2-5 times/week just to be near them.

The first time they were away from DH and I for a night, was this year when DH and I went away for 2 nights (for our 10 year anniversary) and they stayed with my their grandma and grandpa.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
Who cares if it's common or not. That has no relevance to what YOU or anyone else does. Just enjoy your family. If you need to have them all close by all the time, or you need some quiet time to yourself to make that happen, so be it.









:

Of course, to each his own.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

I burned myself out badly doing the 24/7 on duty thing for years on end. I missed weddings and other "adults only" events. I couldn't spend 15 minutes browsing for a library book (reading is my great love) without somebody emptying one of the lower shelves. My husband coming home from work was no respite and there were times when he was working out of town for months.

I would not choose to parent that way again. I have no need to leave babies who are still in-arms, but once they get mobile, I have got to be able to meet my own needs (like that 15 minutes browsing for books!) without having to "pay" for it.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Believe it or not, there are some freaky children who actually enjoy spending time with people who are not their parents.

Each of my three kids spends a part of the summer with my large, extended family. They love it. They also enjoy camp and sleepovers. And yet somehow they manage to still love me too.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *battymama* 
Dont judge people, you dont know the whole story, you may think you do but you dont, especially something like this.

Boy, is that ever true. You NEVER know what is going on in people's lives.

I am a work-outside-the-home mom; the ONLY one of my social friends who is. The only other WOTH moms I know are the ones I work with. My non-work friends are awesome and supportive and we manage to communicate/ commiserate quite well, given the differences in our daily lives.

Since my child is in daycare all day, my husband and I really want to spend as much time as possible with our son, because our "me" time is already built into our day-to-day existence. We don't need or want more. If I were home with my son all day, I would absolutely need time away to recharge, get persepctive, etc. I have no idea whether I would put him in daycare once a week or wait until my husband got home or what, and it doesn't really matter because I'm just not in that situation.

Having said that, my DH and I are having bi-weekly date nights since DD-to-be will be born soon, and we really won't have the opportunity to be together just-us for quite a while. We miss DS's bedtime when we do this, but that's it. And anyway all we end up talking about on date nights is DS and parenting.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

I am sooo confused here! I am just not seeing the horrible judgment in this thread. What I am seeing is moms trying to understand something different from what they do and really what is so wrong with that? Aren't open discussions more beneficial than assumptions? I'd much rather someone ask me why than assume. Understanding our differences is so essential to understanding each other and building that bridge. The "mommy wars" are fed by insisting we all need to just mind our own business and pick a corner and helped by reaching out.

I do see lots of defensiveness in this thread though.

I am not one of those moms who goes out a lot or even not at all. Weekly date nights are important to DH and I , I shop alone, and DH and I trade time during the week to be all by ourselves. I just really am not offended by the OPs question at all nor do I think it's so outlandish and wrong to point out that yes one can over do it.

I dunno we keep talking about to each their own and giving the benefit of the doubt and I can't help but wonder what the OP and some posters said to get accused of some of this. I just think maybe even in the case of this thread we need to follow the "you just don't really know" preaching.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Believe it or not, there are some freaky children who actually enjoy spending time with people who are not their parents.

Each of my three kids spends a part of the summer with my large, extended family. They love it. They also enjoy camp and sleepovers. And yet somehow they manage to still love me too.

My three year old think today is the most awesome day. He has a field trip at school with all his friends and tonight he gets to spend time with GRANDMA! Despite the intense competition, mom and dad still remain tops. We feel blessed to have loving grandparents on both sides to dote on the kids and who the kids love spending time with while we do some self care. I never thought that that was a strange/bad thing until I came here. I still don't, I guess I just don't "get"







those who think that it's not cool.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

I haven't read the other replies, but it does seem to be common.

I work ft, my 3 year old goes to daycare 4 days a week for roughly 7 hours a day. My 7 year old stays home with dh 2 full days a week and goes to a sitter 3 days for around 4 hours per day for the summer.

I do go grocery shopping once a week while my 3 year old is at daycare. That may make me a bad mother, but I feel like taking both my kids with me and losing my patience and snapping at them doesn't make me a good mom either. My kids do go to their grandparents' houses probably once a month so dh and I can go shopping or go on a date. I really don't see that as all bad. Obviously some people go overboard but sometimes, there are ways to make things a tiny bit easier on yourself. And you shouldn't feel guilty about that.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Isn't it great how in some cultures, people have the option of a family network for child-care? Frequently, parents in the west do not have that option, and end up doing a lot of child-rearing themselves, there are also more single parents out there. You know what, it is a lot of intense, hard work, caring for children, especially in the early years. I have a lot of respect for parents who are doing it in the absence of a family support network. Personally, I am a bit wary about leaving babies under a year, in outside care. But, there are always exceptions such as PPD, financial/work pressures, etc.

There are those who do it more than necessary, but, there is nothing wrong about needing to keep a portion of time for yourself. There are many factors that come in to play here- the child's temperament, number of children, grandparents' health, spousal support (or lack of it). I say, look at the overall picture. And, remember that pros and cons are part of every culture.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alicia622* 
I often wonder about why some people seem to need that extra time without their child in tow.

Well, fo rme, I just need time without _anybody_ around. Right now, ds1 (16) is the hardest one for me to deal with. He's a total extrovert, and recharges by talking to people and interacting...and when I'm the one he's interacting with, I can't get _my_ recharging done. I need to be alone, to think, reflect, etc. in order to recharge. I can't do that with ds1 talking Marvel (we're both comic fans) at me, _or_ with the younger ones demanding constant attention. When you need to be alone, even kids are too much company. (I can generally have a newborn/infant around all the time - it's the serious social interaction that drains me.)

Quote:

DH and I spent over a decade working towards having a child. Now that we finally have a child, there is nothing I rather do than spend time with him. He's almost four and I know the time goes by fast. We already had years and years of time to nurture our relationship and do stuff for us.
There's also the circumstantial side. It took me 10 years to have my _second_ child. DH isn't ds1's father. When we got together, I had a 7-8 year old (7 when dh and I met, and 8 when dh moved in). We've _never_ had time alone to nurture our relationship, except what we grab in short bits here and there, and an occasional date night. So...totally different dynamic, yk?

The upside to our situation is that ds1 _is_ 16. So, if dh and I are out for a date or something, dd and ds2 are usually with somebody they already live with.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
I am sooo confused here! I am just not seeing the horrible judgment in this thread. What I am seeing is moms trying to understand something different from what they do and really what is so wrong with that? Aren't open discussions more beneficial than assumptions? I'd much rather someone ask me why than assume. Understanding our differences is so essential to understanding each other and building that bridge. The "mommy wars" are fed by insisting we all need to just mind our own business and pick a corner and helped by reaching out.

I think it's the disingenuousness of the OP's question that sticks in folks' craws here.

If the OP is seeing so many examples of the behavior that befuddles her, she ought to realize that it's common. Furthermore, you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that parents - especially mothers - needing and taking time for themselves is a huge topic in parenting books, magazines, websites, blogs, newspaper articles - everywhere! If she were asking about a truly obscure topic - say the parents in her immediate circle all believe in scattering grass clippings on their children to promote growth - and she just wanted a reality check, that would be understandable.

But to ask "Is this common" about a topic so ubiquitous, it comes across as, well, simply disingenuous.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now* 

Is this common or just the people I'm running into at work?

It's very common indeed. People have always shared the childcare burden among member of the tribe, sometimes to the point of sharing the nursing as well as the childcare.

It's common in the animal kingdom too - even many species of wild animals and birds consider it beneficial.

Elephants in particular
http://features.csmonitor.com/books/...t-reflections/
" In the wild, elephants live in highly developed, matriarchal societies with group parenting and baby-sitting available 24/7."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...laltruism.html


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I think it's the disingenuousness of the OP's question that sticks in folks' craws here.

If the OP is seeing so many examples of the behavior that befuddles her, she ought to realize that it's common. Furthermore, you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that parents - especially mothers - needing and taking time for themselves is a huge topic in parenting books, magazines, websites, blogs, newspaper articles - everywhere! If she were asking about a truly obscure topic - say the parents in her immediate circle all believe in scattering grass clippings on their children to promote growth - and she just wanted a reality check, that would be understandable.

But to ask "Is this common" about a topic so ubiquitous, it comes across as, well, simply disingenuous.

Yet she stated it wasn't common in her culture hence her confusion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now*
I grew up in a culture where mom has babies/kids and she takes them everywhere she can. If kids are not with her because she can't bring them along they are with dad or other relative and she picks them up as soon as she's done. If both parents work family care for kids, the parents pick the children up as soon as the leave work. Basically, a parent, usually the mom, has has their kids with the as much as possible when they are young. I'm only talking infant to preschool age.

As well as rereading her OP you see that she is not saying all moms should be with their babes all the time. She gives examples of children being left with other family members. I think she also may have been asking more than is it common for mom to give her kids to someone else and have been asking is it common for family not to be involved as she stated in her OP that the people watching their kids were co-workers, etc and not family. Again being from a different culture this could easily be something odd to her. She could very well be asking why families aren't more involved as well. So again why not give her the benefit of the doubt here?

Also it being done left and right in one area of her life does not mean it is common everywhere.

As for living under a rock- not all people are subscribing to all the magazines and reading all the parenting books. Some folks are homebodies whose internet is their window to the world. So she asked. Who knows what her situation is which is my point. I think it's more than a little leap to jump all over her for her questions especially when she stated it was odd to her since she grew up in a different culture.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I have been truly surprised by all the people in my life that have suggested that I take some time to "get away" from the kids. It seems like the first thing anyone will say to you if you are having any challenges in your life is, "Why don't you get a baby sitter and take some time for yourself." It's the modern day Mother's cure all.

If time for yourself is being offered as a cure-all, it isn't necessarily a reflection of a culture that doesn't approve of spending time with children. I think it's more reflective of a culture where mothers of young children often find themselves isolated with very little support.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
I am sooo confused here! I am just not seeing the horrible judgment in this thread. What I am seeing is moms trying to understand something different from what they do and really what is so wrong with that? Aren't open discussions more beneficial than assumptions? I'd much rather someone ask me why than assume. Understanding our differences is so essential to understanding each other and building that bridge. The "mommy wars" are fed by insisting we all need to just mind our own business and pick a corner and helped by reaching out.

I do see lots of defensiveness in this thread though.

I am not one of those moms who goes out a lot or even not at all. Weekly date nights are important to DH and I , I shop alone, and DH and I trade time during the week to be all by ourselves. I just really am not offended by the OPs question at all nor do I think it's so outlandish and wrong to point out that yes one can over do it.

I dunno we keep talking about to each their own and giving the benefit of the doubt and I can't help but wonder what the OP and some posters said to get accused of some of this. I just think maybe even in the case of this thread we need to follow the "you just don't really know" preaching.


This X20!

I get a little help, I have a mother's helper that comes every other week one day. My parents take the baby twice a month for a date night for me and dp, but it doesn't offend me at all that the OP asked about some moms getting WAAAAAAY more help than that. I personally don't need much more help than I get. If I did, I would seek it out, I would also probably not have more kids if I saw that I needed a ton of 'me' time or personal recharge time or whatever you want to call it.
And I don't feel bad at all for getting the help that I do, but I didn't see the OP asking about occassional help, she was asking about TONS of help, practically avoiding you LO's. There is a big difference that a lot of posters seemed to miss. I guess a lot of people just didn't read well today or something?


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## jlobe (May 1, 2009)

Quote:

It's very common indeed. People have always shared the childcare burden among member of the tribe, sometimes to the point of sharing the nursing as well as the childcare.
I think this is very true, but I also think it was in the context of the mother working (around the home or some caretaking responsibilities) or looking after other kids, etc. I think the original issue is also a bit of a generational thing.... my generation feels more entitled to leisure time than my parents generation. I don't think it has to be a bad/good question. There are pro's/con's to each. People used to have more kids, and taking care of the basic necessities required much more time, so time for yourself went out the window. We are more self-indulgent as a generation and yet we are also probably a bit healthier physically and emotionally.


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## UhOhWhatNow (Jul 21, 2008)

I sure wasn't being judging- just sharing my experience. I take my baby everywhere and I never leave him. I don't have any outside help, though, and I never have. I was alone with my baby starting the night I had him, figuring out the night time parenting and so forth. DH can watch him for a few minutes here and there, but he doesn't really know what to do with him when he cries, and he hasn't got boobs so... yeah







And I don't have other relatives close enough or with enough free time to help. I can say I would not leave him with a sitter as of now. That's subject to change later, maybe.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
If time for yourself is being offered as a cure-all, it isn't necessarily a reflection of a culture that doesn't approve of spending time with children. I think it's more reflective of a culture where mothers of young children often find themselves isolated with very little support.


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

It's pretty common in the states I think. I see it all around me even with my "crunchy, overachieving"" friends. Now that we have 2 children DH does the shopping, with list in hand, because it's easier. If we all go and it's a short quick trip, I'll leave the kids and DH in the car. On the weekends DH and I do go out on a Fri. or Sat. night but again, after the kids are in bed and then my MIL hangs out for a bit in case they wake up.

My "me time" is when the kids are in bed







And even then it's not "me" time, I barely ever get time ALONE. And if I did, I wouldn't know what to do with myself, I might wake the baby!! LOL!!

After reading some of the posts I agree, this whole "nuclear" family thing hasn't been around for a while. Usually, it really is/was a village that takes care of the children. It's just not possible alone or is very hard to do it alone, someone suffers along the way be it child or parent. I think we should get back to the old ways of raising children where EVERYONE is looking out for the young ones, not just their parents.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now* 
I grew up in a culture where mom has babies/kids and she takes them everywhere she can. If kids are not with her because she can't bring them along they are with dad or other relative and she picks them up as soon as she's done. If both parents work family care for kids, the parents pick the children up as soon as the leave work. Basically, a parent, usually the mom, has has their kids with the as much as possible when they are young. I'm only talking infant to preschool age.

Well, I worked full-time when my kids were little, and I was in the military, too. They went to a home daycare. I'm not sure what you think people should do with their kids if there is no extended family to care for them while their parents are at work....? Even if my mom lived nearby, she was only 38 when my oldest was born and still worked full-time, herself.

As for leisure-time....no, I didn't drop my kids off so that I could have a free day. When I needed a haircut or something, a friend might watch them for me for a couple of hours if their dad wasn't available (he was military, too....sometimes not even on the same continent). Rarely did their dad and I go on dates.

Anyway, the USA is so big and spread out that many people don't have family nearby to help out. Some kids don't like being dragged everywhere. I know my oldest didn't. He started begging to stay home when I went on errands by the time he was 7yo.

Personally, I think quality of time spent together matters more than quantity.


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## patronia (Nov 28, 2007)

It's more common around here for people just to start dumping their kids with people when they turn like, 1.5-2. Which I don't get either, like my cousin, she seemed like a really involved parent to her girls, but since they stopped being "babies" you barely ever see them, they're always with their grandmother/grandfather or their dad. She's a SAHM, so it's not like she NEEDS to leave them.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

It's more common around here for people just to start dumping their kids with people when they turn like, 1.5-2. Which I don't get either, like my cousin, she seemed like a really involved parent to her girls, but since they stopped being "babies" you barely ever see them, they're always with their grandmother/grandfather or their dad. She's a SAHM, so it's not like she NEEDS to leave them.
Well "dumping them" is not a word I would use. Many of us are ebf'ers here and it is at this age that grandma's and grandpa's and cousins can finally spend a little one on one time with my baby. When he was an infant in arms I coulsn't really leave him as he would need to nurse.

As to being a SAHM so she doesn't need to do it-all the more reason sometimes you DO need to do it. It gets pretty lonely only talking to little ones all day every day.

Until you have kids you have no idea how draining some days can be and how some days you just need some adult time.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *patronia* 
It's more common around here for people just to start dumping their kids with people when they turn like, 1.5-2. Which I don't get either, like my cousin, she seemed like a really involved parent to her girls, but since they stopped being "babies" you barely ever see them, they're always with their grandmother/grandfather or their dad. She's a SAHM, so it's not like she NEEDS to leave them.

How do you know that she doesn't NEED to leave them?

You know what? I stay home as well. And my anxiety/depression issues coupled with the fact that I have a spirited 6 year old and a 2 year old who is just simply nuts means that I do in fact NEED to take a few hours or if I am lucky enough (which is once in a blue moon) a day once in a while to recharge and have a mommy "time-out". That time alone can make me feel like a sane person again, which benefits my relationship with my kids greatly. Being a SAHM in a rural area with no family/friends can be very isolating.

I just didn't know that if one is a SAHM parent than that negates their need to ever be without their children. Different families, different circumstances.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Well "dumping them" is not a word I would use. Many of us are ebf'ers here and it is at this age that grandma's and grandpa's and cousins can finally spend a little one on one time with my baby. When he was an infant in arms I coulsn't really leave him as he would need to nurse.

As to being a SAHM so she doesn't need to do it-all the more reason sometimes you DO need to do it. It gets pretty lonely only talking to little ones all day every day.

Until you have kids you have no idea how draining some days can be and how some days you just need some adult time.

But I think about 99% of the people on this thread do have kids so they do know how it is and about half of them are saying that they just enjoy spending time with their kids and don't feel a real need to have all this me-time. I feel like it's almost if any of us says we just genuinely don't like to be away from our kids then the other half of moms(who do like the me-time) feel like we are campaigning for the MDC-mother-of-the-millenium award or something. I think the moms who are saying they don't want/need all this time away from their kids are simply saying, as nicely as possible despite the seeming discrimination from the pro-me-time-moms-camp, that it is just who we are, we are wired this way, we just like to be with our kids all the time and it is not a judgement statement on anyone, just a fact about ourselves.

I don't feel the understanding coming from the other side like they are demanding should be afforded to the moms who use outside help for childcare. Where's the love? All i'm seeing is defensiveness.....


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

I was referring only to Patronia's post-hence me quoting only her.









I frankly don't care what other Mama's do with their time. For 99.99% of us we are doing our best with what we have.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
I was referring only to Patronia's post-hence me quoting only her.









I frankly don't care what other Mama's do with their time. For 99.99% of us we are doing our best with what we have.

Yep. I have enough going on dealing with my own parenting and family, I don't really need to speculate about others.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 

I don't feel the understanding coming from the other side like they are demanding should be afforded to the moms who use outside help for childcare. Where's the love? All i'm seeing is defensiveness.....

Well, when people are using terms like "dumping" and insinuating that people who want some time away "don't like to be around their kids", it's a LITTLE hard not to be defensive. I can understand that, and to be honest aside from school I don't do a whole lot without my kids and pretty much don't have a babysitter these days (I don't count my WAH DH as a sitter).


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Well, when people are using terms like "dumping" and insinuating that people who want some time away "don't like to be around their kids", it's a LITTLE hard not to be defensive. I can understand that, and to be honest aside from school I don't do a whole lot without my kids and pretty much don't have a babysitter these days (I don't count my WAH DH as a sitter).

Well, I can understand that. But I wouldn't say that overall the predominant position has been a rude one. For the most part this thread has remained civil and in the beginning of the thread there was A LOT of defensiveness that wasn't even related to the OPs questions and then on top of that assumptions about the OPs motives! Can't we just ignore the few truely innappropriate remarks?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Why are any of them inappropriate? They illustrate very real assumptions and problems that moms in particular face.

People who need some time away are accused of "dumping their kids" or that it's all some latest cure-all, real moms would always take their children everywhere.

People who do take their children everywhere are asked stupid questions by strangers, and whenever they might open up about feeling frustrated or whatever are automatically told to "get a sitter".

That is life for most mothers in the US at least. No matter what you do, you're screwed AND screwing up.

If you're going to call out people for making rude remarks, then it should be directed at everyone who has, not turning it into yet another contest of who's been wronged more.

I don't really "feel the love" from the people who have said that they spend all their time with their kids. There DOES seem to be quite a bit of superiority/judging going on there. I'm sure it's not intentional with most people. And the only person I see in the thread who has said that there might be a negative consequence for spending every waking moment with their children was ME--in the context that pretty much children (and everyone else) could find fault no matter how much time you spend with them, so why not just do what works best for you and your family instead of worrying about what other people think (on any side).


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Why are any of them inappropriate? They illustrate very real assumptions and problems that moms in particular face.

People who need some time away are accused of "dumping their kids" or that it's all some latest cure-all, real moms would always take their children everywhere.

People who do take their children everywhere are asked stupid questions by strangers, and whenever they might open up about feeling frustrated or whatever are automatically told to "get a sitter".

That is life for most mothers in the US at least. No matter what you do, you're screwed AND screwing up.

If you're going to call out people for making rude remarks, then it should be directed at everyone who has, not turning it into yet another contest of who's been wronged more.

I don't really "feel the love" from the people who have said that they spend all their time with their kids. There DOES seem to be quite a bit of superiority/judging going on there. I'm sure it's not intentional with most people. And the only person I see in the thread who has said that there might be a negative consequence for spending every waking moment with their children was ME--in the context that pretty much children (and everyone else) could find fault no matter how much time you spend with them, so why not just do what works best for you and your family instead of worrying about what other people think (on any side).


Tigerchild, I'm loving you on this thread. A big







: to everything you've posted.


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## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

Huh, didn't know my question would spiral into a "discussion." I hate when this happens on MDC, people accusing others of not understanding where they are coming from bla, bla, bla. Accusations of judgement. This is also why I don't post often, I love the message of the community as a whole but man things get out of hand sometimes.

I'm first generation Mexican-American, my parents came here as pre-teens. Everyone worked as field workers or packing house workers until they could get enough education to find a better job. I grew up in a city that was predominatly Mexican on the poor side of town, chickens in the front yard and everything. I didn't see much of any other cultutre until my late teens/early 20's and parenting was not something I paid any attention to.

Now I live in a city with a smaller number of Mexicans and I live on the "white" side of town. Mexicans here are assimilated into the American culture which I'm trying to do myself. When the subject came up at work a couple people agreed so I wondered if it was common. Where I come from kids aren't dropped off for "me" time. I was taken care of after school and summers by my grandparents but mom picked me up right after work. I went everywhere Dr appointments, haircuts, shopping, worksites with my grandparents.

Call me jugemental if you will I couldn't care less. I know my intentions, it was an honest question.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

Now I live in a city with a smaller number of Mexicans and I live on the "white" side of town. Mexicans here are assimilated into the American culture which I'm trying to do myself. When the subject came up at work a couple people agreed so I wondered if it was common. Where I come from kids aren't dropped off for "me" time. I was taken care of after school and summers by my grandparents but mom picked me up right after work. I went everywhere Dr appointments, haircuts, shopping, worksites with my grandparents.
OP, I've been following this thread but didn't really attempt to comment because I didn't know what type of culture or cultural thing you were referring to...but now it makes much more sense.

I can only speak from my own experience and perhaps that of my parents, but I have seen a lot of resistance to the presence of kids in a wide variety of places. I live in a big city, so maybe it is different in more rural areas, but generally, parents are discouraged from bringing their kids to the doctor's or dentist's office, hair cutting places, certain restaurants, etc. Not saying that there are rules posted outside the offices, just saying that I have that perception. I'm not particularly excited about having my child in the doctor's office while I'm having a GYN exam, and the last time I was at the dentist, I was in so much pain that there was no way I could have watched my child whilst getting an extraction. People who work in many doctor's offices and the like tend to get annoyed in having to watch someone else's kid while they are doing their own job. I can understand that to an extent...it's not what they are paid to do.

When I do see people bring their kids to doctor's offices, etc., they are almost always accompanied by a spouse or a grandparent or a friend...someone who can watch the children during the exam or meeting. I have zero family in this city, so if DH can't assist with these issues, I have to find someone else. This is rare, as I try to do everything like this during my work hours. My parents have their own lives, and their attitude is that they raised their kids and now they can do what they want to do. Nothing wrong with that, but the concept of extended family, grandparents, etc. is almost non-existant in my life. That makes me pretty sad.

Now knowing a teeny, tiny little bit more about where you are coming from culturally-wise, I assume that a lot of emphasis is placed on extended family. And, I think that perhaps in Mexican culture and other non-US-type cultures, kids are more valued as part of the community. All you have to do is go on other non-MDC forums (parental and non-parental) and hear the complaining and whining about other peoples' kids. There is an overwhelming sense of self-entitlement in this society...as in...get your kid out of my face! It's like, if someone can hear a crying baby over the music on their I-Pod, then you've invaded their imagined "constitutional right" to space and silence in public settings. I'm saying this tongue and cheek (partially) but living around a lot of people day in and day out has led me to a lot of such conclusions!


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now* 
Huh, didn't know my question would spiral into a "discussion." I hate when this happens on MDC, people accusing others of not understanding where they are coming from bla, bla, bla. Accusations of judgement. This is also why I don't post often, I love the message of the community as a whole but man things get out of hand sometimes.

Call me jugemental if you will I couldn't care less. I know my intentions, it was an honest question.

Communication is a two-way street. If you (general sense) don't want a discussion, better to not start it. If not one, but, several posters comment on my OP, *I* would step back and think if I could have worded my post in a more clear manner. Now that you have included more details we have a clearer picture of where you are coming from and how child-care was a shared responsibility.


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## jlobe (May 1, 2009)

Quote:

the last time I was at the dentist, I was in so much pain that there was no way I could have watched my child whilst getting an extraction.
My favorite was the time I had my 3 year old and 18month old at the dentist (couldn't get a sitter) and at one point the 18m ds spilled the cheerios and ended up lying at the foot of the dentist chair on my legs







However, the dentist and the staff were very gracious and helpful, and I got mine and my child's teeth checked and cleaned.







However, for the following cavities I made sure my husband could stay home with them...


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RunnerDuck* 
I've always wondered if anyone else looked at "Am I that weird?" or "Is this really common?" type threads and saw the actual statement as being, "Behold the ways in which I am both a superior mother yet utterly modest because I am not even aware of it, even though I really am!"

I guess now I know.









.











Even _if_ this isn't one of those threads, there sure are plenty of them!


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## JennTheMomma (Jun 19, 2008)

I think taking a "day off" is common and ok. My mom would always take me every where. She does in home daycare, so she was always home. I work from home and take my son everywhere. But usually once a week or once every other week I let my mom watch him so she can have some grandma time and he can play with the other kids, which he really loves. I don't think parents need to be there 24/7. I think its perfectly fine for the grandparents or maybe aunts/uncles have some time with the kids too. I have and will never use a babysitter, like the teenage kids. I always use my parents or my in laws.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 









Even _if_ this isn't one of those threads, there sure are plenty of them!

I found that comment a lot less funny than you did and pretty rude.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seawind* 
Communication is a two-way street. If you (general sense) don't want a discussion, better to not start it. If not one, but, several posters comment on my OP, *I* would step back and think if I could have worded my post in a more clear manner. Now that you have included more details we have a clearer picture of where you are coming from and how child-care was a shared responsibility.

But this wasn't a discussion it was a "discussion"- you know when people bash and say they are discussing. Hence the quotations.

Thanks for clarifying, OP!


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## tarajean56 (May 2, 2007)

It seems this thread has taken a bit of a turn, but I've been thinking about it since I first read it the other day, and when I logged on it was on the front page. So I decided to post late in the game









When I was little, my mom didn't leave us until I was 4 years old, mainly because she couldn't afford a sitter and had no trustworthy free babysitting. Because we had no family or close friends until I was much older, I had major anxiety that my mom would die and I'd be left with no one, or worse - my alcoholic father. I was sick every single day for portions of my young life, until I finally met a youth group leader who I really clicked with. I felt like I finally had a safety net beyond my mom.

Not saying all kids would respond that way, but I hated feeling like all my eggs were in one basket. I didn't want my kids to feel that way. I'm a SAHM, and my kids spend just about every Wednesday evening at my mom's house, and usually one other chunk of time with another grandparent or church friend (all four grandparents are remarried and live close, so that's four sets). They love their time there, and I love that they have so many people who they can depend on. I also LOVE the time to get things done or just to chill. Our extensive and reliable support network is an enormous blessing and I use it often!

*I did always want to keep my babies with me when they were 6 months and under (or so), so I did. When I felt like I wanted to leave them, I did. I'm a better mama for it, believe me!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

But this wasn't a discussion it was a "discussion"- you know when people bash and say they are discussing. Hence the quotations.

Thanks for clarifying, OP!
I don't think there was any bashing. Defensiveness, maybe, as previous posters mentioned, but not bashing. I think what started as an innocent question, evolved into huge assumptions (on both sides of the issue). Like: "yes, it is common...because [insert view]" and "well, if it is common it is because of [insert view] and there's nothing wrong with that!". I do think the original post was very unclear and I was very hesitant to make any comment because honestly, I wasn't able to ascertain if the culture referred to was the culture of AP, the culture arising out of conservative religious practices, culture relating to a specific ethnic upbringing, etc. People often use the term "culture" to describe a wide variety of practices and moral leanings *or* to take a moral high ground, so I certainly understand if people felt a little prickled.

Point is, the OP clarified and now we can all bring our thoughts and experiences to the table without feeling the need to defend them and validate our own choices.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *not now* 
Where I come from kids aren't dropped off for "me" time. I was taken care of after school and summers by my grandparents but mom picked me up right after work. I went everywhere Dr appointments, haircuts, shopping, worksites with my grandparents.

So....

in Mexican culture, are grandparents supported by their children? Are they generally very old by the time they become grandparents? Or are they able to retire early?

I'm asking seriously, because I know an awful lot of grandparents who are employed full-time. None of my kids' grandparents would have been able to do after-school and summer care for my children. My kids are teenagers and my mom still has a mortgage to pay.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

well I'm one of the ones who got defensive, because the whole tone seemed to me to be "well I love my children and love spending time with them, so I never leave them with anyone, not even their father, because no one can love them the way I do".

Implication being that anyone who doesn't do that doesn't love their children or love spending time with them.

And words like "dumping" or "more than necessary" or "too much" don't help. I mean who gets to decide if some other mother is spending "too much" time away from her children?

I guess the reason I feel defensive is that I think that an entire side of the argument is discounted - that children are perfectly capable of being happy and content without their mothers' constant presence. (and it doesn't mean that they don't love their mothers or didn't bond properly with them).

My oldest is a teenager and old enough to watch her younger siblings. They are thrilled to death to NOT have to come with me on errands and appointments.

Leaving them at home while I return something to a store, or get my driver's license renewed, or see the dentist, isn't depriving them of my presence and love, it's doing them a big favor. They would much, much rather be at home than sitting on a hard plastic chair at the DMV.

That these errands are easier for me to do without them is a bonus.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

A lot of what was being said about "too much" etc was just that- about those who do it excessively. Yes it is a good idea to have a break but that doesn't mean it can't be overdone. I think some posters were just scratching their heads at parents who over do it and then there were those who were simply stating they do not and don't understand it- no harm in that. There are plenty of things I don't get and it in no way means I am looking down my nose and those who do it.

Yesterday we moved and my 3 littles went to a friends for a few hours and I was having a mixture of "thank goodness they are gone because this would be impossible with them here!" and "ok they can come home now"







Anywho I thought of this thread and I thought of it for a specific reason- my mother lived not a 3 minute walk from us at our old place yet she would not lift a finger to help with the move or the kids (one of the reasons we have decided to cut her out). So we had to get help from church. I can see where this might look odd from the outside- my mom is RIGHT THERE and yet I have another woman taking my kids and others helping. To people close to their family this is odd as I have been told to me it is normal because my mom has always been like this. So I guess from the other side I can see the OPs confusion. I wonder how common it is for granmothers to help out with their grandkids. I scratch my head at it all the time. Do people really do that? Must be nice!


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
well I'm one of the ones who got defensive, because the whole tone seemed to me to be "well I love my children and love spending time with them, so I never leave them with anyone, not even their father, because no one can love them the way I do".

Implication being that anyone who doesn't do that doesn't love their children or love spending time with them.

And words like "dumping" or "more than necessary" or "too much" don't help. I mean who gets to decide if some other mother is spending "too much" time away from her children?

I guess the reason I feel defensive is that I think that an entire side of the argument is discounted - that children are perfectly capable of being happy and content without their mothers' constant presence. (and it doesn't mean that they don't love their mothers or didn't bond properly with them).

My oldest is a teenager and old enough to watch her younger siblings. They are thrilled to death to NOT have to come with me on errands and appointments.

Leaving them at home while I return something to a store, or get my driver's license renewed, or see the dentist, isn't depriving them of my presence and love, it's doing them a big favor. They would much, much rather be at home than sitting on a hard plastic chair at the DMV.

That these errands are easier for me to do without them is a bonus.

And I think tha no one on MDC could or would fault you for leaving the kids at home in that manner for those reasons.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:

A lot of what was being said about "too much" etc was just that- about those who do it excessively
But "excessively" is a subjective term. That's why it is judgemental to say a mother leaves her child "too much". It's judging someone else's behavior based on what you find acceptable.

What you consider "too much" is not what every other mother would consider "too much".

There are mothers who would say that leaving your child one time is excessive.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
A lot of what was being said about "too much" etc was just that- about those who do it excessively. Yes it is a good idea to have a break but that doesn't mean it can't be overdone.

I agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
But "excessively" is a subjective term. That's why it is judgemental to say a mother leaves her child "too much". It's judging someone else's behavior based on what you find acceptable.

What you consider "too much" is not what every other mother would consider "too much".

Obviously, people disagree on this, or there would be no discussion. Everyone would leave their children only for amounts of time that others also found acceptable, because everyone would agree on what that meant.

I will say that I do think there's such a thing as "too much" on this topic. When you take someone's child for 3 hours (long walk, playground, picnic), and less than five minutes after you come in the door with him, the mother is telling you that she "never" gets a break from her kid, and wishes someone would take him, so she could have some "me" time, I think that's excessive. (Apparently, she spent half the time he was gone on housework, and half playing cards with friends, neither of which counts as "me time", in her opinion.) I've seen many cases of this kind of thing from the mother in question, and I know her kids very well. They don't think their mother wants them around...because she doesn't. That's excessive. Even if she did want them around, they don't feel like she does, and she makes no effort to change that. (Can you imagine being so wrapped up in an online conversation that, when your 11 year old came home after _10 days_ and tried to tell you what he'd been doing, you brushed him off?)

IMO, that's excessive. I don't think I've ever met a parent who would disagree. At some point, it's definitely possible to leave your children too much...and if the kids are feeling unwanted, I'd say that point is, at the very least, being approached.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

: to SB.

I seriously doubt any of the "too much" moms were meaning parents who leave their children to run errands or have some time alone.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

The vibe I always get from these threads is that those "other" moms are enjoying themselves to much instead of martyring themselves in the currently fashionable way.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
The vibe I always get from these threads is that those "other" moms are enjoying themselves to much instead of martyring themselves in the currently fashionable way.

All I can think reading this is "really"? I mean by this logic a mothr has no real role in child's life that can't be filled by someone else and I DO not believe that AT all.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
The vibe I always get from these threads is that those "other" moms are enjoying themselves to much instead of martyring themselves in the currently fashionable way.

I can understand that, but...I do think some parents are away from their kids too much, and I'm no martyr. I joined a choir when ds2 was only 14 months old - and still nursing. That required being away from him for over two hours, at bedtime, one night a week. I don't think that's a big deal or that I'm a horrible mom or anything. Heck - I went back to work when ds1 was only 5 months old, and was away from him all day. So, it's not like I think a child is going to wither away if mom isn't around.

Mind you, it's easier for me than a lot of moms, because I really don't have many things I want to do that necessitate being away from my kids. My favourite recreational activity is reading, and I can do that on the couch while my kids play. If I really loved to go out dancing or clubbing or something, that would be a lot more difficult.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
All I can think reading this is "really"? I mean by this logic a mothr has no real role in child's life that can't be filled by someone else and I DO not believe that AT all.

That logic does not relate to what I said at all.

Some of my best memories from childhood were the times I spent with my godmother or godfather or other babysitters. I gained a lot from those interactions and I never missed my parents when I was with others, though I loved my parents very much. My kids gain a lot from interactions with other adults, and I don't feel that it is detrimental at all for kids to have attachments to people outside the immediate family. It's certainly better for kids than having a burned out resentful mother.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
That logic does not relate to what I said at all.

Some of my best memories from childhood were the times I spent with my godmother or godfather or other babysitters. I gained a lot from those interactions and I never missed my parents when I was with others, though I loved my parents very much. My kids gain a lot from interactions with other adults, and I don't feel that it is detrimental at all for kids to have attachments to people outside the immediate family. It's certainly better for kids than having a burned out resentful mother.

To be fair, the OP didn't give me any impression that she thinks there's something wrong with children having relationships outside the immediate family. I got the feeling she was talking about something quite different. I've definitely met a few people who don't seem to be even remotely interested in interacting with their kids, and it just seems really weird...


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Ok, I agree that there can be situations where a child is left for excessively long periods when he or she shouldn't be. Neglect exists, we know that.

But the situations in the OP _were not excessive_. Remember, we're talking about the co-worker and his wife who only had one day off in common, and who used it to nurture their marriage while the child was at the grandma's. The mother who used childcare now and then to do errands alone. That kind of thing.

These are not crazy, outrageous instances of neglectful parents "dumping" a kid for exessive amounts of time. These are the kinds of strategies most parents I know employ.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

IMO, that's excessive. I don't think I've ever met a parent who would disagree. At some point, it's definitely possible to leave your children too much...*and if the kids are feeling unwanted*, I'd say that point is, at the very least, being approached.
And the answer lies right there in the bolded part: how do the kids feel about it? We can analyze this into eternity and discuss (in a circular fashion or otherwise) what we think or observe about parents and their activities, but how does the child feel? Does the child feel or look happy? Loved? How does he treat or respond to others around him? Obviously a baby can't articulate what it feels in any known language, but it sure can cry and look miserable and exhibit other non-verbal signs of unhappiness and discomfort. This sense of abandonment or feeling unwanted will then surely exhibit itself in other ways as the child grows, even if internalized at first.

And to get back to the OP's original question, I don't think some of the isolated examples of excessiveness cited in the previous posts are common, at least in my experience.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

For myself, I'd find several examples in the OP to be excessive. But, I was a WOHM who _didn't want to be_ for a long time. I spent a ton of time away from my son, when all I wanted was to be with him. So, the idea of volunteering for another day a week (or whatever) without him just...feels really weird to me. We were pretty much attached at the hip when I wasn't at work, and I wanted it that way. I just have to keep in mind that everyone is different...maybe I would have seen things differently, if I'd been getting something out of WOH, aside from my paycheque.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
Ok, I agree that there can be situations where a child is left for excessively long periods when he or she shouldn't be. Neglect exists, we know that.

But the situations in the OP _were not excessive_. Remember, we're talking about the co-worker and his wife who only had one day off in common, and who used it to nurture their marriage while the child was at the grandma's. The mother who used childcare now and then to do errands alone. That kind of thing.

These are not crazy, outrageous instances of neglectful parents "dumping" a kid for exessive amounts of time. These are the kinds of strategies most parents I know employ.

I know I personally was referring to other posters as the conversation seemed to evolve into the more excessive, if that makes sense. I also don't feel the OPs examples were excessive as given and I don't think she was saying they were. The thread went on a different course as usual.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
The vibe I always get from these threads is that those "other" moms are enjoying themselves to much instead of martyring themselves in the currently fashionable way.

So wait are you saying moms who stay with their kids all the time aren't enjoying themselves and are martyrs? I am lost in this statement. Firstly I don't get that vibe and secondly who says anywhere any of us have to be martyrs? I think it's too much of a generalization. Moms can be happy with their kids 24/7, with some breaks, or even gone all day. On the flip side moms can be the real martyrs who are gone all the time, with some breaks, or with their kids 24/7. I think it's just the stereotypical "if you are with your kids you are miserable" in order to combat the stereotypical "if you are away from your kids you are selfish". Neither are right.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 

But the situations in the OP _were not excessive_. Remember, we're talking about the co-worker and his wife who only had one day off in common, and who used it to nurture their marriage while the child was at the grandma's. The mother who used childcare now and then to do errands alone. That kind of thing.

These are not crazy, outrageous instances of neglectful parents "dumping" a kid for exessive amounts of time. These are the kinds of strategies most parents I know employ.

I just want to say that I did read the examples in OP and think that for me that would be excessive and out of the question. I didn't have a baby to then turn around and not spend time with her. I waited until I was very ready and wanting a baby very badly and I *want* to spend most of my time with her, she is only young once and I want very much to be around her to experience everything.
I also agree that having family in LO's lives is VERY important. I don't get a long with my mom, but that hasn't stopped me from moving across the country to be nearer to her so that my dd could have more than just me and her dad in her life, y'know?
I enjoy the occassional date night with dp, but our relationship has changed since having her and I am ok with that, it's a new faze and I expect that as life evolves there will be many new fazes to our relationship.
What I don't understand is the idea that in spite of having a child, people expect to continue doing all the things they did in their pre-baby days. To *me* that seems ridiculous. Having me time to decompress makes sense, having time to continue the lifestyle you had before baby does not, again, to *me*.
I also don't know a lot of parents that do that kind of thing or even want to, but again, that's just me.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
So wait are you saying moms who stay with their kids all the time aren't enjoying themselves and are martyrs? I am lost in this statement. Firstly I don't get that vibe and secondly who says anywhere any of us have to be martyrs? I think it's too much of a generalization. Moms can be happy with their kids 24/7, with some breaks, or even gone all day. On the flip side moms can be the real martyrs who are gone all the time, with some breaks, or with their kids 24/7. I think it's just the stereotypical "if you are with your kids you are miserable" in order to combat the stereotypical "if you are away from your kids you are selfish". Neither are right.

I thought I was the only one who thought that was a ridiculous thing to even throw out there!
I am thoroughly offended at the idea, esp on a forum called _mothering_,that a mom could not enjoy her kids company enough to want to spend much of her time with them.

For the record I could be working outside the home, what's to stop me? I was running a gallery before I had dd and *loved* it, but it wasn't where I wanted to be anymore, I wanted to leave that life and _stay home with my dd_. And I love it! I don't feel in any way cheated. My life is just as good now, just different.
I also don't susbscribe to the "having it all" mentality. And I think a lot of women are realizing that that was an illusion from the start.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

For myself, I'd find several examples in the OP to be excessive. But, I was a WOHM who didn't want to be for a long time. I spent a ton of time away from my son, when all I wanted was to be with him. So, the idea of volunteering for another day a week (or whatever) without him just...feels really weird to me.
I understand what you're trying to say, StormBride, I'm a WOH mom myself, and I desparately want to spend every available moment when not at the office with my DD. But, maybe its my training as a lawyer (which may be a negative in itself...ha, ha), but there is not enough information or enough facts stated in the OP for me to reach any conclusion that any of those examples are "excessive." Maybe the OP's co-worker has three days off a week, one in which he spends with his DW. Maybe the person who tries to get shopping done before she picks up her child after work is in my situation (has to ride subways and buses to get to DD, then has to ride more subways and buses to get home; shopping is on the way to DD; DD and I have a few blocks to walk home that is not near the grocery store; I just want to get home to spend time with DD and economize my time doing errands...which I find highly unpleasant even without DD in tow). In essence, we don't know those individuals' work schedules, we don't know what they do when they are at home, we don't know what their approach is to childrearing. Thank goodness our legal system requires a little more proof and a little more fact digging before people are thrown in jail.

I'm lucky enough to have flex-time schedule which allows me to come and go as I please in order to pick up DD from school. In addition, many parents in my firm utilize a work plan that allows them to work 4 days and have 3 days off. There are many parents at my DD's school, however, who have to employ part-time nannies to pick up their children, as they do not have the flexibility to leave work when school lets out every day and have few relatives in the city to help out. Someone from the outside looking in might think: "Whoa! These people send their kids to pre-school AND they have nannies. They must really not want to spend time with their kids!" Point is, they do what they have to do to make it work.

The OP contained no other relevant facts that would lead me to believe that anything about the co-workers' behavior was excessive. So what if the guy and his wife spent one day of the week together without their DC? We don't know anything else about them. We assume they are working some other days of the week. But how many days and during what time periods? Do they live next door to work with no commute time? Does the grandma live with them? These types questions are all terribly relevant to how much time I spend with my own DD. That's why I'd like to know more.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

I want to add that I think this thread has turned into a situation where posters are starting to take a lot of comments out of context and building arguments on those particular statements. It's called a strawman argument: taking another's position, turning it into a different position, and then attacking that position.

I wish the OP would come back and talk to us!


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Hmm, coming in quite late to the conversation.... anywhoo

In the past I have given up days with my DS specifically so he could spend time with his grandparents or other family members. Yes, I did use that time to run errands like shopping, getting my hair done etc but the main focus was HIM spending time with other people who loved him. I think that the more people who love my son and who he loves the better. IMO, it makes him a more confident person. "Wow, look at all these people who love me and I feel secure and safe with". He and I will always have a special relationship (I hope - haven't hit the teenage years yet!) but I don't want to be the 'be all and end all' of his life. Does that make any sense?

As well, I think its important that these relationships grow without me or my DH being there. My mom and DS have developed such a special relationship because she watches him for one day a week while I work. I don't think that would have developed to the level that it has if I was always around.

Yes, there are parents out there who sadly don't spend enough time with their kids but I think the opposite is true as well. Sometimes there are parents who don't let their kids form special relationships with other adults as well. I think that a healthy balance between the two is key.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

CatsCradle: That's a good point about flex-time and/or part-time hours. I hadn't even thought of that. I don't really think the things in the OP sound all that excessive, anyway. They just would have felt like a lot to _me_ when I was WOH. I met my bff for dinner about every six weeks, and sometimes, I even begrudged that small amount of time away from ds1 (but I didn't begrudge it enough to actually skip meeting her). DS1 loved it when I came home, but he was fine when I was gone, too. _I_ was the one who hated it.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

I don't really think the things in the OP sound all that excessive, anyway. They just would have felt like a lot to me when I was WOH. I met my bff for dinner about every six weeks, and sometimes, I even begrudged that small amount of time away from ds1 (but I didn't begrudge it enough to actually skip meeting her). DS1 loved it when I came home, but he was fine when I was gone, too. I was the one who hated it.
StormBride: I totally know what you mean! I think it all comes down to how WE FEEL as moms/parents. Intellectually I know that DD is fine when I'm not there. Deep down I'm like, dang, I miss that kid! When I'm away from her but look at her photo, I just want to squeeze her and tell her that I love her. I even get that way when she is off running around with her dad. They will call me on the phone and she will prattle on about what they are doing, and I'm feeling "arrrggghh...I wish I had gone too!" There is a bond between parent and child that I think most parents can't deny. Unfortunately there's a few out there who never bond or feel that connection, and hopefully the kids of those parents will come out on top. I don't think it's a new thing...I think the world has always been this way in some respect.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
I didn't have a baby to then turn around and not spend time with her. I waited until I was very ready and wanting a baby very badly and I *want* to spend most of my time with her, she is only young once and I want very much to be around her to experience everything.
I also agree that having family in LO's lives is VERY important. I don't get a long with my mom, but that hasn't stopped me from moving across the country to be nearer to her so that my dd could have more than just me and her dad in her life, y'know?

I understand your viewpoint, but the way you say it seems to imply that all babies are planned.

I love my 17yo dearly, but he was not planned. He was conceived while I was on the pill. I was in the military. So, my choices were to terminate, give him up, or be a full-time (and then some) WOTH mom. I was only 21 when he was born, and had never really given thought to having kids prior to learning of my pregnancy, because in my mind, kids were something that was going to happen "some day."

And seeing as I was in the service, moving near my family wasn't an option. The "needs of the Navy" come first. And since my boys' dad is a career Navy guy, we've _never_ lived near family, since we spent years moving from place to place after he and I got married. That doesn't mean they've never had anyone else in their lives besides me and their dad. They've had awesome caregivers, and the children and spouses of their caregivers were equally awesome. Friends and neighbors. Lots of visits to the midwest to see grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins.

No, I didn't have a baby just to turn around and not spend time with him. I did the best I could with what I had. On the rare occasion that I left with with a sitter to go out with friends, it was after he'd been put to bed for the night.

Believe it or not, those of us who have to work to put a roof over our heads often would prefer to spend all our time with our babies, too. I never _wanted_ to leave my kids in daycare. Stuff happens.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

I haven't read all of the replies, but I will happily go shopping without dd when I have the chance. For example, if I am out at a meeting in the evening, then I will go to the store after that. It takes a lot less time and dd and I don't get into a fight about the things that she wants. She has been (rather frequently) known to have screaming meltdowns in the grocery store. However, most of the time she goes shopping with me.

Last year I trained for a marathon. Most of the time, I ran with dd in the jogging stroller during her nap. However, I also left home 15 minutes early on work days to get a short run in. I think that's logical self care, since she was going to grandma's house anyway.

For financial reasons, in the fall I am increasing my work hours slightly. I am going to use 1 day per month to do medical appointments and have breakfast with my mom. Dd can't stand coming to my appointments, so the two of us discussed it and agreed that this new arrangement would be fine with her.

I WOH part time and WAH part time, and often I take dd to meetings and on work-related errands or programs. I think that she comes to "adult" activities more than most kids I know. While that's fine with her, I pick and choose what she comes to, and we make it (mostly) fun, I also find that it's nice to have times when it's just the two of us doing the things that we enjoy. Having childcare during the work / errand times facilitates this by allowing me to do errands and work more quickly.

By the way, I love the Continuum Concept and want dd to experience coming with me to things rather than being left behind. However, this also requires an understanding of how your child will react to certain activities, how you'll make sure that she's engaged (she no longer fits on my back, even though she'd love to be there), and what activities you choose to do together.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

2xy said:


> I understand your viewpoint, but the way you say it seems to imply that all babies are planned.
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry it came across that way, it's not how I meant it at all. I was just relating how *I* came to be a mother. I actually did not include my first pregnancy in that story because it ended in the first trimester, but it was when I was 17. It taught me a lot about myself and what would be the best for me and that turned out to be waiting to get pregnant again until it *was* a planned pregnancy. That was about 10 years later.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

I think the OP is absolutely right that there is a _cultural context_ here.

Now I don't know a lot about Mexican culture, but typically US/Canadian culture is not family-friendly as a whole. As a broad generalization (flame away...) adults and children socialize separately, with their peers. Extended family is a smaller part of our life than in many cultures. A lot of public places are not designed for children or with children in mind. At least where I live, if you DO bring your child everywhere, it invites comments and looks. Our entertainment is primarily age-targeted and oriented towards individual activities.

So if US/Canadian parents are using babysitters more often than is typical in a family-oriented culture, why are we surprised? I think that has more to do with the answer to the original question than trying to come up with a universal formula for what constitutes excessive babysitting.


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## olliepop (Jun 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sisteeesmama* 
What I don't understand is the idea that in spite of having a child, people expect to continue doing all the things they did in their pre-baby days. To *me* that seems ridiculous. Having me time to decompress makes sense, having time to continue the lifestyle you had before baby does not, again, to *me*. I also don't know a lot of parents that do that kind of thing or even want to, but again, that's just me.

Sadly, I do know a few. One mother told me that when they had their baby, their lives weren't really going to change. That they weren't going to change their lives to fit the baby, but rather train the baby to fit their lives. For them, that meant continuing to do ALL the things they did before, frequent dinners, movies, vacations, shows -- all w/o the baby. Which meant that baby was now spending lots of time with her grandmother and babysitters. And they refuse to take her to places like the zoo or children's museums b/c THEY have no interest in it, but right now they feel that she is too young to enjoy adult art museums so they go alone and leave her home. Now that, to me, is excessive!


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## isabchi (Sep 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
What culture are you from? Certainly, growing up, my mother carted us around most places. As for me, i do the same. I find it more of a nuisance to organise a babysitter, and the whole 'pickup' thing annoys me, because then i am constrained by a time. I' rather just have my kids with me. If they need to nap, they nap in the stroller or on me. Sometimes, this allows me to go to a ...gasp...cafe.

I like spending time with my kids, because basically thats all of think about now anyway. Everything is about them.

I find ways to do other things i like, with them. For eg, i like to read, so i read in the playground.

I find i dont really need a 'break' from them, other than i get already with naps etc.
There are some things i just dont do anymore, like to go the movies. But that can wait.

Maya with ds1 3.75 and ds2 14m

This is us. I really enjoy my kids most of the time. I can go everywhere with them. They love go to restaurants, my older one loves to order from the menu. She makes her deposit tickets when we go the bank. Always is something fun to do.
Sometimes I get tired that people assume that I need time away from my children. I wish that the same people some day will offer to make some boring errand for me.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olliepop* 
Sadly, I do know a few. One mother told me that when they had their baby, their lives weren't really going to change. That they weren't going to change their lives to fit the baby, but rather train the baby to fit their lives. For them, that meant continuing to do ALL the things they did before, frequent dinners, movies, vacations, shows -- all w/o the baby. Which meant that baby was now spending lots of time with her grandmother and babysitters. And they refuse to take her to places like the zoo or children's museums b/c THEY have no interest in it, but right now they feel that she is too young to enjoy adult art museums so they go alone and leave her home. Now that, to me, is excessive!


Yeah, to me that is what the OP was saying, but maybe I read it wrong. That, to me is such a sad scenario and those kinds of parents don't know what they are missing out on...


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olliepop* 
Sadly, I do know a few. One mother told me that when they had their baby, their lives weren't really going to change. That they weren't going to change their lives to fit the baby, but rather train the baby to fit their lives. For them, that meant continuing to do ALL the things they did before, frequent dinners, movies, vacations, shows -- all w/o the baby. Which meant that baby was now spending lots of time with her grandmother and babysitters. And they refuse to take her to places like the zoo or children's museums b/c THEY have no interest in it, but right now they feel that she is too young to enjoy adult art museums so they go alone and leave her home. Now that, to me, is excessive!

??? Makes me wonder why they had a baby in the first place.


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## sisteeesmama (Oct 24, 2008)

Yeah, me too, but I think a lot of other moms would be offended by that question, right?


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

Yeah, me too, but I think a lot of other moms would be offended by that question, right?
Not if I have all the facts to reach an informed conclusion. I like to weigh all the factors before jumping on the bandwagon, because I've learned some hard lessons in the past about reaching conclusions before I know the whole story. Given this set of facts, there's a high probability that I would have thought the same thing. Operating on assumptions creates a lot of division, that's why we have that nasty little thing called the mommy wars.


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I've read through most of this thread and I was hoping to find more people who regard having a whole 12 hours a week to themselves as more of a luxury rather than a necessity (one which I would love to have, but for the past seven years and indefinite future don't see it happening), so I definitely don't see the judgement happening here.

I guess for me as a SAHM to 3 kids with another on the way, homeschooling with no outside support, I feel a little jealous/resentful/whatever when I have no choice but to take my three kids with me to pee in a cup so I can get a script for a UTI and I get looks, comments and virtually no accomodation. Would my doc's office be out that much money if the nurse kept an eye on my kids in the hallway while I took literally 2 minutes to pee in a cup? Leaving your kids with someone else while you try and do anything other than entertainment seems to exacerbate the un-family-friendliness of our culture.

To keep kids out of the grocery store, IMO, only encourages further intolerance of kids IN the grocery store. I would love one day a week to clean my house, grocery shop, and get a haircut without my kids in tow, but financially and logistically it is simply not an option. So, when I do all of these things with my kids in tow, it seems to take even longer because G*d forbid I block the aisle with one of my kids running around while the 50-something in the next aisle can park her cart smack in the middle and nobody blinks.

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but I think it does a disservice to our kids to not have to wait in line at the bank or learn how to sit quietly while mom renews her license. Life isn't about being able to play constantly. Perhaps we are sheltering our kids from some of life's necessities that aren't all fun and play? What happens when they become adults or parents and have a hard time adapting to family life because they never knew about dealing with a misplaced shirt at the dry cleaners or having to bring 2 kids and a dog into the veterinarian's office could literally take up an entire morning?

My SIL just had her first baby. She was hoping a child would change my bro's behavior (no longer out with the boys and throwing back a six-pack every night). And of course, he didn't change. Rather than try and adapt to life as a family, my SIL decided that if his life shouldn't have to change, then neither should hers. She leaves her 3 mo old with sitters so she can go tanning or out with the girls, in addition to the time she leaves him to work. She also has her mom take the baby on weekend mornings so she can sleep in until noon. And lucky me, since she is parenting this way, any empathy that might have existed for me is all but gone because why can't I just drop off my kids with a sitter while I run out?

I don't care if you leave your kids with a sitter, but let's also show some empathy for those who don't have that option. If you're grocery shopping by yourself and you see me trying to corral my three kids, rather than roll your eyes or sigh with irritation give me or my kids a friendly smile, knowing I'd relish the opportunity to shop by myself, it would be a *luxury* for me...


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## isabchi (Sep 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snuzzmom* 
??? Makes me wonder why they had a baby in the first place.

I'll not say that moms don't need "me" time in a variety of range,but some times it's too much.
I have a friend who was follow me in a party the other day. She was talking and talking about that She's planning to get pregnant soon and She already talk with her mom.The grand mom is going to be in charge of the baby during nights, plus at the time she'll be working (FT),plus errands,etc.
After She insist it many times trying to get from some kind of approval, I just can't handle it anymore. I try to very kindly say that She probably need to rethinking about the decision of have a baby. I add..everybody wish to some day have somebody that love us unconditionally and when this somebody is here, we're planning to get away for!..uhmmm


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I don't care if you leave your kids with a sitter, but let's also show some empathy for those who don't have that option. If you're grocery shopping by yourself and you see me trying to corral my three kids, rather than roll your eyes or sigh with irritation give me or my kids a friendly smile, knowing I'd relish the opportunity to shop by myself, it would be a *luxury* for me...

I would never roll my eyes as someone grocery shopping with kids. I do frequently leave the two little ones with dh while I shop on a weekend...but not always. I'll probably take them with me and do the weekly shopping on Monday this week, as I have for the last two weeks. I'm spending next Friday in the hospital, having another c-section, and I don't want to lose out on our last good family weekend just to go shopping alone, yk? Besides, my kids love the grocery store, especially the seafood tanks (crabs, lobsters, mussels, clams & oysters). While it's nice to be able to get the job done in half the time, without constant interruptions and distractions, it's kind of fun to see people who are so enthusiastic about _grocery shopping_. (I remember being that way myself.)








mama. Grocery shopping with kids in tow can be tough.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isabchi* 
I'll not say that moms don't need "me" time in a variety of range,but some times it's too much.
I have a friend who was follow me in a party the other day. She was talking and talking about that She's planning to get pregnant soon and She already talk with her mom.The grand mom is going to be in charge of the baby during nights, plus at the time she'll be working (FT),plus errands,etc.
After She insist it many times trying to get from some kind of approval, I just can't handle it anymore. I try to very kindly say that She probably need to rethinking about the decision of have a baby. I add..everybody wish to some day have somebody that love us unconditionally and when this somebody is here, we're planning to get away for!..uhmmm

Just to be clear, I was responding to the specific post where the parents unwiling to change ANY aspect of their lives to accommodate their child.

I totally get why a mom would need some personal time in almost any other circumstance.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
While it's nice to be able to get the job done in half the time, without constant interruptions and distractions, it's kind of fun to see people who are so enthusiastic about _grocery shopping_. (I remember being that way myself.)








mama. Grocery shopping with kids in tow can be tough.

Yeah, I hate grocery shopping... UNLESS my son is with me. He makes it fun. Having said that, I have ONE child and he sticks pretty close. I am due with #2 in late July and the perspective I now have about this may be changing very, very quickly.









Good luck next Friday, BTW. I'll be thinking about you.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snuzzmom* 
Yeah, I hate grocery shopping... UNLESS my son is with me. He makes it fun. Having said that, I have ONE child and he sticks pretty close. I am due with #2 in late July and the perspective I now have about this may be changing very, very quickly.


















I loved grocery shopping with ds1 a lot. He and I would walk to the grocery store, and then walk back, and we used to make up games on the way home. I remember one evening when it was just starting to rain, and I knew it was going to get really heavy, so I made it our "quest" to get home with our food before the storm. By the time we got back, we'd incorporated an evil wizard, an endless stairway and I can't even remember what else.

With dd and ds2, it's a bit different. It was fine for a couple of years, but they're _so_ prone to squabbling now. As long as they don't start to fight, and they stay with me okay, it's great. I just never know what I'm going to get ahead of time...

Quote:

Good luck next Friday, BTW. I'll be thinking about you.
Thank you. I'm getting really excited about meeting this little one.


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## Jenifer76 (Apr 20, 2005)

I wholeheartedly admit that I do like some "alone" time. Typically, its the kid staying with my DH while I go out or vice versa. This week, both kids have been at camp from 740 to 520 p.m. Going was their choice.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:

Would my doc's office be out that much money if the nurse kept an eye on my kids in the hallway while I took literally 2 minutes to pee in a cup?
It's not a question of being out of the money. It simply is not the nurse's job to act as babysitter for anybody, period.

Sometimes I have no other choice to bring my children with me but I wouldn't dream of asking or expecting the staff of whatever place I am going to stop doing their job to babysit my children, no not even for literally two minutes.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
My SIL just had her first baby. She was hoping a child would change my bro's behavior (no longer out with the boys and throwing back a six-pack every night). And of course, he didn't change. Rather than try and adapt to life as a family, my SIL decided that if his life shouldn't have to change, then neither should hers. She leaves her 3 mo old with sitters so she can go tanning or out with the girls, in addition to the time she leaves him to work. She also has her mom take the baby on weekend mornings so she can sleep in until noon. And lucky me, since she is parenting this way, any empathy that might have existed for me is all but gone because why can't I just drop off my kids with a sitter while I run out?

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I don't love the idea that "_she_ needs to adapt to life as a family" and "_she_ is parenting this way." Surely her husband carries some of the responsibility too. If he was really co-parenting with her, he'd be covering some of her time off and maybe she wouldn't need so much time off if she had more support in the home.

Sorry to nitpick, but I think the choice of words is revealing. Our culture does seem to expect women to take on the full responsibility of home and family and that's incredibly unfair.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I don't love the idea that "_she_ needs to adapt to life as a family" and "_she_ is parenting this way." Surely her husband carries some of the responsibility too. If he was really co-parenting with her, he'd be covering some of her time off and maybe she wouldn't need so much time off if she had more support in the home.

Sorry to nitpick, but I think the choice of words is revealing. Our culture does seem to expect women to take on the full responsibility of home and family and that's incredibly unfair.

Yeah...but it also makes no sense to expect someone to change when you have a baby. From what the poster you're quoting said, it sounds as though she's playing tit-for-tat, because she thought he'd change and he didn't. The baby is the one who ends up with both parents being absent all the time.

I've known quite a few women who pushed through hard on the having a baby thing, in the expectation that their partner would change his ways when the baby arrived. I've seen it actually work out _once_. If one's partner isn't good parenting material, then maybe it's not a great idea to decide to be a parent with them, yk? I didn't see anything in that post that ever suggested he _would_ co-parent with her, so why would she expect him to? Sure - it would be the right thing to step up to the plate and do the job of being a parent...but when I want someone to do a particular job (be that cooking, gardening, cleaning or fixing the washing machine), I pick someone who knows how....or at least shows some willingness to learn. Parenting is no different.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

I've known quite a few women who pushed through hard on the having a baby thing, in the expectation that their partner would change his ways when the baby arrived. I've seen it actually work out once. If one's partner isn't good parenting material, then maybe it's not a great idea to decide to be a parent with them, yk? I didn't see anything in that post that ever suggested he would co-parent with her, so why would she expect him to? Sure - it would be the right thing to step up to the plate and do the job of being a parent...but when I want someone to do a particular job (be that cooking, gardening, cleaning or fixing the washing machine), I pick someone who knows how....or at least shows some willingness to learn. Parenting is no different.
Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate here again.

DH is the prime example (by our society's standards) who never should have had a kid: 1) he didn't become a father until he was 58 (he's practically elderly for cripe's sake!); 2) he travelled the world and hung out with the less "desirable" types of our society; 3) he went to the original Woodstock...O'LAY!; 3) he was arrested by federal agents and spent time in federal prison (won't go into the reasons but I can assure you it didn't have anything to do with children or theft or any other thing I find morally reprehensible; 4) he is a nutcase, but sort of brilliant; 5) he's Jewish but doesn't believe in g-d.

But guess what, he's a great dad! He loves DD more than anything in this world. By society's standards, and by logic, DH would have been the worst choice. He's even been to prison! When I found that we were pregnant, I sort of panicked...more because of me than him...but our ability to do it either individually or together seemed, well, questionable.

So here we are, at the happiest moment in our lives! I don't think you can shop for the perfect dad. It's a little more hit and miss than we'd like to admit. People don't train to be parents like they train to be electricians or gardeners. It is something that it handed to you and you do it the best you can. Some fail miserably but others step up the plate. Maybe I've been surrounded by the "dredge" of society who happened to have incredible human/humane qualities. I know there are a lot of crappola people out there...it just hasn't been my experience.

That being said, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect co-parenting. I don't care what your background is...you got a job...now do it. No excuses.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't see anything in your post that suggests good or bad parent to me. I'm not sure why any of that would mean he wouldn't be a good dad. Almost everything you mentioned (aside from his age and being a Jewish atheist, neither of which have any relevance to parenting, imo) is about things he did in his past. What on earth does having gone to the original Woodstock, or having hung out with "less desirable" types or _having been_ to prison got to do with _anything_?

I'm talking about people who are into their own lives, in a very "single" kind of way. The post I was talking about (the one about the SIL) described a guy who was off hanging with buddies and drinking six-packs. _That_ doesn't scream "I really want to have a baby with this guy" to me, yk? A guy who _is_ throwing back a six-pack every night is not the same thing as a guy who _used to_ do so...or used to do drugs, or just about anything else. Do I think the poster's brother _should have_ shaped up when he had a baby? Definitely. Do I think it was even remotely reasonable to have a baby with him _in the expectation_ that he would so so? Not so much. As I said, I've seen that work out _once_, despite seeing a _lot_ of women try it.

(IME, that particular foolish life choice is more often a woman thing than a man thing - maybe because a woman is less likely to be talked into a baby she isn't really interested in, since she has to go through the pregnancy?)


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:

I don't see anything in your post that suggests good or bad parent to me. I'm not sure why any of that would mean he wouldn't be a good dad. Almost everything you mentioned (aside from his age and being a Jewish atheist, neither of which have any relevance to parenting, imo) is about things he did in his past. What on earth does having gone to the original Woodstock, or having hung out with "less desirable" types or having been to prison got to do with anything?
Histories mean a lot to many people. My parents were horrified when they met DH. Horrified at his potential to be a good husband and parent. Horrified that he wasn't religious in the way that they felt was appropriate. Btwn: one is not an "atheist" just because you don't believe in the Judeo-Christian concept of g-d...DH is agnostic...which comes with its own problems...but he is not an atheist. Religion means a great deal in some circles and cultures. Religion can define who you are. Age can define how you parent according to some. My parents and kin were horrified that I would marry someone from that excessive, liberal and unrepentant generation who went to Woodstock and marched on Washington in various protests. I guess it is hard for someone who is not of that generation to understand the significance of the rebellion and distain that young people of that generation had for their superiors. It is significant to me in the fact that I married someone who was not the straight arrow that I was expected to marry. My familial relationships have suffered as a result. For people who are not judged on their religious, political or cultural choices, I can understand that this would NOT BE A BIG DEAL.

My dad was the example of the perfect match: a professional who never did anything wrong or unethical in his youth. My mom married him on those principles. And guess what, he was the most distant, unloving person and uninvolved person I've ever known....and he came home every night after 5 pm and never had a drink that I'm aware of. I never had a father, in my opinion. Never one that cared or loved, so to speak. So I guess what they say is true: you can never judge a book by its cover. Exteriors are so deceiving.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CatsCradle* 
Histories mean a lot to many people. My parents were horrified when they met DH. Horrified at his potential to be a good husband and parent. Horrified that he wasn't religious in the way that they felt was appropriate. Btwn: one is not an "atheist" just because you don't believe in the Judeo-Christian concept of g-d...DH is agnostic...which comes with its own problems...but he is not an atheist.

Whoops. Sorry. I'm agnostic myself, so I don't know why I took your post to mean he was an atheist.

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Religion means a great deal in some circles and cultures. Religion can define who you are. Age can define how you parent according to some. My parents and kin were horrified that I would marry someone from that excessive, liberal and unrepentant generation who went to Woodstock and marched on Washington in various protests. I guess it is hard for someone who is not of that generation to understand the significance of the rebellion and distain that young people of that generation had for their superiors. It is significant to me in the fact that I married someone who was not the straight arrow that I was expected to marry. My familial relationships have suffered as a result. For people who are not judged on their religious, political or cultural choices, I can understand that this would NOT BE A BIG DEAL.
I get all that. However, it has nothing to do with someone's current stance on parenting issues. If people are horrified by someone's politics, worldview, etc., then, yes, in some cases, that's going to translate into "this person should never have children". That's not the same thing as choosing to parent with someone who is _currently_ showing no signs of willingness to take on the responsibilities of parenting. The latter is what I was addressing.

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My dad was the example of the perfect match: a professional who never did anything wrong or unethical in his youth. My mom married him on those principles.
And, none of that says "this person will be a good parent". Those things have _nothing_ to do with parenting.

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And guess what, he was the most distant, unloving person and uninvolved person I've ever known....and he came home every night after 5 pm and never had a drink that I'm aware of. I never had a father, in my opinion. Never one that cared or loved, so to speak. So I guess what they say is true: you can never judge a book by its cover. Exteriors are so deceiving.
Sure. Exteriors are deceiving. But, you haven't described anything about your dh _or_ your dad that actually says anything about what kind of parent they would make. Basing a person's parenting on what their politics are, or what their religious beliefs are, or what kind of people they hung out with years ago, or what they do for a living, is a disconnect with what parenting is. There are _tons_ of people who can describe exactly what you did...professional, ethical people who are distant and unloving. How on earth does what mistakes someone may or may not have made in their past or what job they have carry any bearing on what kind of parent they'll be?

Sure - lots of crappy parents don't drink. But, I wasn't talking about them. I simply don't understand why anyone looks at a guy who has a party hearty lifestyle and who is all about what's fun for _them_...and thinks, "he's not a great dad now, but I bet if we have a baby, that will all change". It happens a lot. It virtually never actually works that way. It's not about politics, or religion, or Woodstock, or a person's career...it's about whether or not they demonstrate any ability to put someone else first.

ETA: I'm going to drop this, though - we're going way OT.


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

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Originally Posted by *pjs* 
To keep kids out of the grocery store, IMO, only encourages further intolerance of kids IN the grocery store. I would love one day a week to clean my house, grocery shop, and get a haircut without my kids in tow, but financially and logistically it is simply not an option. So, when I do all of these things with my kids in tow, it seems to take even longer because G*d forbid I block the aisle with one of my kids running around while the 50-something in the next aisle can park her cart smack in the middle and nobody blinks.

Also, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet, but I think it does a disservice to our kids to not have to wait in line at the bank or learn how to sit quietly while mom renews her license. Life isn't about being able to play constantly. Perhaps we are sheltering our kids from some of life's necessities that aren't all fun and play? What happens when they become adults or parents and have a hard time adapting to family life because they never knew about dealing with a misplaced shirt at the dry cleaners or having to bring 2 kids and a dog into the veterinarian's office could literally take up an entire morning?

I think these are good points. I think kids should be involved with the mundane aspects of life in an age-appropriate and personality-appropriate way, and this will vary a lot depending on individual situations. I agree that it is a disservice to a child to only experience child-centered environments (child care, school, grandparent time, etc.) where the child has 100% of their parents' attention because the parents did everything else they needed to do while the child was elsewhere. The world doesn't work this way. Kids need opportunities to learn how to behave in the grocery store and other public places. I plan on teaching my kids these important skills just as soon as they turn 18. (just kidding! Maybe when they are 15...)

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Originally Posted by *churndash* 
It's not a question of being out of the money. It simply is not the nurse's job to act as babysitter for anybody, period.

Sometimes I have no other choice to bring my children with me but I wouldn't dream of asking or expecting the staff of whatever place I am going to stop doing their job to babysit my children, no not even for literally two minutes.

I agree that babysitting isn't the nurse's job, but doesn't it make sense to provide family-friendly health care services? The problem here is with the system, I think. (I just want to point out that the midwivery practice with whom I had my children were very kid-friendly; there were toys in the waiting room and exam rooms, and the front desk staff cheerfully assisted in holding/playing with young children when needed.) Until I find other family-friendly services, I avoid bringing my kids to medical offices and let the scheduler know in advance if I do need to bring my children with me, like if I have an emergency dental appt. or something.

But that's a tangent to the original questions of the OP. My opinion is "no".

One part is: No, I don't think it is common for grandparents/other relatives to provide bonus childcare on a weekly basis, but I think it is a wonderful idea for grandparents to spend time with grandchildren, and I think it promotes bonding for the kids/grands to be on their own after a certain age that's probably different for everyone. I agree with the PP who pointed out that it is stressful for a child to be solely dependent on one parent. It's great when extended family can be involved.

Another No for the question of whether it is common for parents to NOT want to spend time with their kids, therefore overusing childcare options. I don't think this is common, but I do know it happens and I think it's sad when it does. I have friends and family members who have worked as childcare providers at centers/privately, etc. and they have seen some kids who are in childcare for any and every hour they are available, which for a center is about 55 hours per week, including many holidays. No, I don't know the details of *why* these kids are in childcare for so many hours even when their parents have the day off, but that is beside the point. I'm not trying to judge or tell people how they should run their own life. I just feel sad when I think about what those families are missing.

I do think it can be a slippery slope into overuse; I had a friend who needed part time child care and had to pay for a full-time slot anyway and I could see that the temptation was there to drop the child off more frequently than necessary for the work schedules of the family, since they were already paying for the time and it would make 'free time' for the parents. They did what they needed to do.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

You know, I don't think anyone thinks that parents NEVER need time away from kids, either as individuals or a couple, or that there are NEVER places that parents have to go that are inappropriate for kids, or that the kids might even just really dislike. And everyone realizes that there will be different things that work for different families.

But there are families that don't seem to put any priory on time spent with kids, or which seem to assume that kids shouldn't change things. A good friend of mine grew up in a community where many kids went to boarding school. Then they went to summer camp - all summer. And it was considered normal, because parents need time to themselves, to work, to have a strong marriage (although divorce was really common in that community too.)

There is a part of our culture that says "You must take care of yourself first, and meet your own needs first, that is your first priority." And I think that is subtlety different than "It is important that each person in the family/community/state gets their basic needs met and then gets more as more is available, in a way that is fair and takes into account the individual nature of each person."


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

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ETA: I'm going to drop this, though - we're going way OT.
I agree. I'm sorry I can be so adversarial sometimes. And I apologize to the OP. I love to argue, which is a flaw in some respects and gets me in trouble more often than not. Although I admit, StormBride, that it is fun! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to rant! I enjoy it and I like to hear others' viewpoints.









Edit to say: congrats on the very near birth of your DC, StormBride! I know this must be extremely exciting and I hope all goes well.


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