# What is wrong with Target?



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

I visited the thread about tshirts and target and found it interesting. Some mamas made comments that they boycott target already. What is wrong with Target? I am aware of the Salvation Army issue but is there something else? I already avoid Walmart and Sam's Club and would really like to know if there are reasons Target should be avoided.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

I like target, and since it is based in Minneapolis it even a "local" shop for me









What is the salvation army issue, btw?


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

I like Target, too! The Salvation Army issue is that Target does not allow charities to solicit for money on or outside their stores. That means no bell ringers at xmas. That started last year and some people got upset and boycotted Target.


----------



## bellee (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
I like Target, too! The Salvation Army issue is that Target does not allow charities to solicit for money on or outside their stores. That means no bell ringers at xmas. That started last year and some people got upset and boycotted Target.

This is why I boycott Target.


----------



## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I'm with bellee....that ticked me off!







:


----------



## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

See, and I boycott the Salvation Army because of their discriminatory hiring practices!


----------



## Rhonwyn (Apr 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
I like Target, too! The Salvation Army issue is that Target does not allow charities to solicit for money on or outside their stores. That means no bell ringers at xmas. That started last year and some people got upset and boycotted Target.


That is one reason why I shop at Target. No anti-gay bell ringers. They give a lot of money to charities including the Salvation Army, unlike WalMart who lets you give your money but they don't give much of their corporate money.


----------



## bellee (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder*
See, and I boycott the Salvation Army because of their discriminatory hiring practices!









They are a private, no profit institution, can't they hire whoever they want?


----------



## myjulybabes (Jun 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellee*
They are a private, no profit institution, can't they hire whoever they want?


Discrimination is discrimination no matter who's practicing it. Of course, legally, yes, they can hire whoever they want. They just can't expect donations and support from those of us opposed to their practices.


----------



## Rhonwyn (Apr 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *myjulybabes*
Discrimination is discrimination no matter who's practicing it. Of course, legally, yes, they can hire whoever they want. They just can't expect donations and support from those of us opposed to their practices.

Exactly. They can keep out whomever they want but they won't get my money. Jesus was a pretty inclusive guy, too bad some of his followers aren't.


----------



## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I'm very pleased not to have to politely smile as I walk past Salvation Army colllectors outside their store.









But I'd like to know why Target is bad - I never shop at Walmart but do use Target every so often.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
I like Target, too! The Salvation Army issue is that Target does not allow charities to solicit for money on or outside their stores. That means no bell ringers at xmas. That started last year and some people got upset and boycotted Target.

Well, that's not a boycottworthy issue for me.


----------



## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I know that besides the epidural t-shirt issue, other people have had problems with their returns policy.

Here is a link to some other issues:
http://www.responsibleshopper.org/ba...m?cusip=239753


----------



## Eaglevoice (Nov 30, 2004)

Wow, I didn't know that Target owned Mervyn's too. It's a crazy corporate world in which we live.


----------



## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I don't know if I would boycott Target if I lived near one but I would probably support a more locally business. I worry that Target, Ikea, H&M and stores like that are going to take over the world.

I realize, fully, that in some areas you really lack for options in regards to locally owned stores.


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
I don't know if I would boycott Target if I lived near one but I would probably support a more locally business. I worry that Target, Ikea, H&M and stores like that are going to take over the world.

I realize, fully, that in some areas you really lack for options in regards to locally owned stores.

Oh, I totally agree with this one. However, trying to live on one salary is tough and Target, combined with coupons, really saves us money on household items, like dish soap and diapers. This is why I was hoping that there were not issues with Target like there are with Walmart. I need to read the responsible shoppers website again to fully digest what it says. We try to not buy clothes and toys there as they are pretty cheaply made. DD, dh and are all all a bit pear shaped and their clothes don't fit anyway.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
We try to not buy clothes and toys there as they are pretty cheaply made. DD, dh and are all all a bit pear shaped and their clothes don't fit anyway.










Yep,that's true.I get clothes much cheaper and at a better quality at the outlet center anyway, so I don't have to desperately try to find something not adult-like for my 7-year old.I don't want her to look like J-Lo!


----------



## mama ganoush (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellee*
They are a private, no profit institution, can't they hire whoever they want?

what if they refused to hire mothers? or women at all? or blacks?

or is it only ok to refuse to hire gays?


----------



## erindaugherty (Jan 17, 2005)

I agree with the boycott...the epidural t-shirt was totally out of line. If you live near a Target, there's got to be a Wal Mart or K Mart you can go to.


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellee*
They are a private, no profit institution, can't they hire whoever they want?

Yep. Which is why Target, the corporation, can choose not to have groups that discriminate soliciting outside their stores.


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erindaugherty*
I agree with the boycott...the epidural t-shirt was totally out of line. If you live near a Target, there's got to be a Wal Mart or K Mart you can go to.

You don't actually think an epidural T-shirt is boycott worthy compared to the insanely long list of horrible things Wal Mart does?


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erindaugherty*
I agree with the boycott...the epidural t-shirt was totally out of line. If you live near a Target, there's got to be a Wal Mart or K Mart you can go to.


Well, walmart is much, much worse than Target, by far. In fact, there is a thread about them in this forum. In my state, they are in the news right now because our state is trying to pass a law mandating that any business with more than 50 employees must provide health care for it employees. Walmart has sent in a bunch of lawyers to fight it.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
Well, walmart is much, much worse than Target, by far. In fact, there is a thread about them in this forum. In my state, they are in the news right now because our state is trying to pass a law mandating that any business with more than 50 employees must provide health care for it employees. Walmart has sent in a bunch of lawyers to fight it.

There is always some wal-mart thread somewhere...rightfully so, I say.target is like an angel compared to the devil wal-mart.


----------



## mamapixie (May 30, 2002)

Target is 100x better in my book than Walmart. I was quite grateful for not having to walk past the bellringers this year, as I never donate to them anyway(I'd rather donate my money other places).

Their clothes are nicer and better made, yet still inexpensive(especially if you hit the clearance racks) So they have a strict return policy, in this day and age, I believe it's necessary. It's cleaner, less crowded, and just plain nicer than Walmart.


----------



## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

If i wanted to, I could find something wrong with every single store I could possibly shop at. I guess you have to pick the lesser of two weavels.
I say we boycott the whole world








Just kidding.







I totally respect the reasons of everyone here for boycotting target, but I choose not to. I am more oppossed to Walmart, and loathe that place with a passion. I am oppssed to Salvation Army bellringers though, who expect people to give and bug them going in and out of a store.I give to charity, but I also give to those I know in need,and to my church, and through my church.We also support local freinds and missionaries.I like to know exactly where my money is going and I don't like people EXPECTING me to give it.


----------



## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

is what an email I got is saying, here is the message~

_I was at Target today- and I was APPAULED!! They had TWO huge carts
full of beautiful roses-with baby breath, in a glass fishbowl- do
you know what they were doing with ALL of it!!??? THROWING IT
AWAY!!! They would not sell it(they marked them out of stock after
they could not sell them at $12.49) - nor donate it- as I suggested-
there is lots of retirement communities within a block!! I was
astounded- this was direction they got from their corporate office.
Now I understand that flowers get thrown away everyday- however-
most of it is from flower shops and growers- they RECYCLE! Not only
that- but do you know how many glass vases they were throwing away?
MANY!! And worst of all- this is ONE Target- they are a nationwide
company!!!
WANTED: Call in to Targets Corporate office- if this makes you as
mad as it did me. Target is so into the community- or are they???
1-800-440-0680

Other part of post: (Not Freecycle):

....Also someone just informed me that now Target is not allowing their
employees to purchase display furmiture- they are trashing it. Dumpsters
are locked and enclosed..._

boycott worthy?


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Perhaps that's a local issue myticmama. My dh stocked for a target a few Xmas's for a few years. Employes always got first dibs on whatever they were getting rid of. He was always calling askuing me if I wanted "such and such". As far as donating it usually it's about taking the inituative. I wonder if an employee had volunteered to take it somewhere if there would have been an objection.


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mystic~mama*
is what an email I got is saying, here is the message~

_I was at Target today- and I was APPAULED!! They had TWO huge carts
full of beautiful roses-with baby breath, in a glass fishbowl- do
you know what they were doing with ALL of it!!??? THROWING IT
AWAY!!! They would not sell it(they marked them out of stock after
they could not sell them at $12.49) - nor donate it- as I suggested-
there is lots of retirement communities within a block!! I was
astounded- this was direction they got from their corporate office.
Now I understand that flowers get thrown away everyday- however-
most of it is from flower shops and growers- they RECYCLE! Not only
that- but do you know how many glass vases they were throwing away?
MANY!! And worst of all- this is ONE Target- they are a nationwide
company!!!
WANTED: Call in to Targets Corporate office- if this makes you as
mad as it did me. Target is so into the community- or are they???
1-800-440-0680

Other part of post: (Not Freecycle):

....Also someone just informed me that now Target is not allowing their
employees to purchase display furmiture- they are trashing it. Dumpsters
are locked and enclosed..._

boycott worthy?

Flower shops don't recycle flowers.

And the wastefulness issue is not even remotely limited to Target. Nearly every business would engage in practices considered wasteful -- throwing out food, etc. One of the reasons they do that is because of accounting and bookkeeping -- items that are donated have to be carefully recorded and accounted for, which is just not possible when you're dealing with hundreds of items every day.

Is wastefulness good? No. But it's a systemic issue in the North America that reaches far beyond Target.


----------



## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

Am I to understand.....Target (as well as walmart kmart and many other dept. stores) don't allow soliciting at their stores. Target refuses to make an exeption to this rule for the salvation army.

Is that it in a nut shell?

Cause if that IS in fact, the case... I would be more inclined to boycott the stores that make exceptions to their policies for certain solicitors and not others. Whats right about that? ( There are alot of really worthy organizations out there...)

(Whats the epidural t-shirt issue???!!)


----------



## chalupamom (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
One of the reasons they do that is because of accounting and bookkeeping -- items that are donated have to be carefully recorded and accounted for, which is just not possible when you're dealing with hundreds of items every day.

Yep. Given that consumers and shareholders are demanding (and receiving, largely) greater oversight and management of financial information I'm not surprised that anything that cannot be strictly managed on a regional or national basis - like donations from one store to a single retirement center, for example - is being limited. This is not to say that they may not do it in the future, once systems and the paperwork are in place to handle it. Target and other retailers use complex logistics software that may not at the moment, under current accounting rules, be able to accommodate the kind of non-waste we'd prefer to see. Again, this isn't to say it might not happen in the future. The companies that write the packages would create the systems to do it if asked by Target and Target would ask if we demand it. So...

There are also liability issues. The sale of merchandise constitutes a contract of sorts under commercial and trade laws. That is, there are assumptions made about the buyer, seller and product that dictate the relationship and offer some level of protections for everyone. Giving something away may not be covered under those statutes and could open the store to liability that they are not able to manage. This could be why you see clearanced Target stuff at Goodwill, but not other places - they may have chosen Goodwill as a single outlet because the relationship could be managed.

Finally, can you imagine the outcry if one retirement place found out that another got free flowers when the first did not? Talk about boycottable! It seems to me that Target's overriding goal is to not play favorites - they have a set of rules that applies across the board and while we might not like the outcome we can't argue that it's not fair to all. They have their corporate charitable interests they adhere to and I can't say as I disagree with their approach.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I still say we "boycott" the epidural t-shirts and not worry so much about the rest of the store.

Let's face it, if nobody bought the t-shirts, they'd stop making them. Why do we need to boycott the entire store for this?


----------



## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reader*
Flower shops don't recycle flowers.

And the wastefulness issue is not even remotely limited to Target. Nearly every business would engage in practices considered wasteful -- throwing out food, etc. One of the reasons they do that is because of accounting and bookkeeping -- items that are donated have to be carefully recorded and accounted for, which is just not possible when you're dealing with hundreds of items every day.

Is wastefulness good? No. But it's a systemic issue in the North America that reaches far beyond Target.










you all made great sense, I really didnt put much thought into it, I just told the lady I would post this for her since she didnt get a good response on the freecycle board...honestly, I thought she was being pretty dramatic about it but....I was trying to be nice and posted it here for her because it seemed to mean a lot to her....Ginger, if you are reading this I mean no offense, just being honest
















blessings~


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BAU3*

(Whats the epidural t-shirt issue???!!)

Target had a maternity tshirt with something on it about wanting or planning for an epidural. It caused a big stink in many areas, not just on mothering, so they pulled it.


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
I still say we "boycott" the epidural t-shirts and not worry so much about the rest of the store.

Let's face it, if nobody bought the t-shirts, they'd stop making them. Why do we need to boycott the entire store for this?


Ah! A very reasonable point! Good idea.


----------



## chiromama (Dec 29, 2003)

I have always loved Target.... However... their political contributions are much redder than I'd hoped for. http://www.choosetheblue.com/main.php I have shopped there once since findingthis out, and intend to shop there on an as need basis... IOW... only when it's the last place I can find what i need. I decided after the election, that if my vote doesn't count, my dollars do.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mystic~mama*
is what an email I got is saying, here is the message~

_I was at Target today- and I was APPAULED!! They had TWO huge carts
full of beautiful roses-with baby breath, in a glass fishbowl- do
you know what they were doing with ALL of it!!??? THROWING IT
AWAY!!! They would not sell it(they marked them out of stock after
they could not sell them at $12.49) - nor donate it- as I suggested-
there is lots of retirement communities within a block!! I was
astounded- this was direction they got from their corporate office.
Now I understand that flowers get thrown away everyday- however-
most of it is from flower shops and growers- they RECYCLE! Not only
that- but do you know how many glass vases they were throwing away?
MANY!! And worst of all- this is ONE Target- they are a nationwide
company!!!
WANTED: Call in to Targets Corporate office- if this makes you as
mad as it did me. Target is so into the community- or are they???
1-800-440-0680

Other part of post: (Not Freecycle):

....Also someone just informed me that now Target is not allowing their
employees to purchase display furmiture- they are trashing it. Dumpsters
are locked and enclosed..._

boycott worthy?

That might be a single store+ I tend to trust official sources more than hearsay. But even if it is true, I'd be suprised but don't really find that to be a reason to boycott Target.


----------



## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chiromama*
I have always loved Target.... However... their political contributions are much redder than I'd hoped for. http://www.choosetheblue.com/main.php I have shopped there once since findingthis out, and intend to shop there on an as need basis... IOW... only when it's the last place I can find what i need. I decided after the election, that if my vote doesn't count, my dollars do.

That's interesting.I don't avoid Target but found other stores more convenient for me.I also think that the fresh produce qualityTarget has sucks and their remaining selection is very limited...I can get more what I want at Aldi than at Target, go figure!


----------



## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Target is no longer selling the epidural shirts, btw. There was another thread around here somewhere with a letter from officials at Target explaining that it was removed from their website.


----------



## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

I havent shopped at Target for a very long time...I never liked it, they have some nice things but are expensive....I boycotted Walmart this past summer & have no need for these stores except occasionally when I need lightbulbs or tape but thats only every 3 months or Most of the time I go to no other stores other than the food co op, thrift store & used bookstore anyway just clarifying that the message I posted was not coming from my own experience....blessings all~


----------



## EmsMom (Dec 13, 2001)

I don't really shop at Target, or Kmart or Walmart for that matter! I guess I never really shop for much at all. However, I was reading about the flowers they were throwing away and it reminded me of one time I was shopping at Trader Joe's (I do shop for food!) and they had a whole display of flowers that were "past their prime" and every one who was leaving the store was getting some, for free. Made my day. Stuff like that sure makes me want to keep shopping there!


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

In my area, SFV in LA, TAHR-SHAY is in stiff competition with Wal-mart that has just entered this area. They just knocked over one near me only to upgrade it to make it more UP-scale for all of us angelenos.

I really never shop there or anywhere else. I shop Coldwater Creek and LLBean on line or on the phone.


----------



## simply me (Dec 26, 2004)

i am like many other SAHM 's, i shop where i can get great deals & still have nice things. i shop all over & i do activly go to walmart & target. with coupons & price matching i do ok . and with 1 salery, 3 kids, mortgage, 2 car payments & the rest of the bills saving money is great!!!

no on a money note.. my hubby is active in the Special Olympics 7 he heads anual fundraisers threw his police dept to 100% donate all proceeds to SO & both target & walamrt are VERY generous. Target this year alone has donated clothing/household things for auctions, free gift cards to raffle off & a generous 500.00 donation. Walmart this year alone donnated $1500.00 plus all the food for the 2 day events & many auction items. I think all places companies etc have good & bad points. We just all have different ipinions on what is acceptable & what isn't. Hey isn't that why we live where we do... We live where we can feel & express our opinions. Thats why i love places like This MDC, it gives us all a chance to let our voices be heard, even if it;s only by other members.


----------



## simply me (Dec 26, 2004)

pardon all my grammer mistakes, wow its late here!!!


----------



## radish (Sep 19, 2002)

I shop at Target peridoically, boycott Walmart.

Another reason ppl boycott Target is b/c of RDIF tags
http://www.ncsl.org/standcomm/sctech/MA-RDIFact.htm


----------



## OMama (Feb 18, 2005)

I have to admit, I shop at Target, but would never even set foot in Wal-mart. (As a side note . . . has anyone noticed how they are now advertising their "community fund" on NPR? What's up with that!) Anyway, I have concerns about Target vis-a-vis the epidural shirt, their marketing of formula, the fact that they sell products like the "bababib". Check this out: http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B00024FTC8
I posted a negative review but it hasn't shown up yet. The person I contacted said it can take up to 10 days. They've got 3 more and then I'm callin' em back.

OMama


----------



## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

Holy Smokes!! That bib is one of the laziest things I've ever seen! If you are bottle feeding, the least you could do is hold the baby and the bottle....


----------



## heldt123 (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mystic~mama*

....Also someone just informed me that now Target is not allowing their
employees to purchase display furmiture- they are trashing it. Dumpsters
are locked and enclosed...[/I]

boycott worthy?

I used to work at a "high class" department store and if something got damaged we had to destroy it and throw it out. (like one Christmas bulb in a box of 12). It used to make me just sick at the stuff that gets thrown out! They write this off as a loss on their taxes, so the company doesn't lose. They don't sell stuff to employes because they don't want them going around damaging stuff to get a discount. It is probably similar with displays. If they let employees buy display items, they might have people taking stuff out of the boxes and setting it on display to get a discount. Also, the company probably profits more damaging it off than selling it at a discount...


----------



## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

Just chiming in here... Target is , IMO, much better than Wal Mart, for many reasons, not the least of which they have a great selection of breast feeding support (supplies such as pumps, nursing pads, and LANSINOH!), their clothing for children is some of the best made (according to Consumer Reports), and their household items are beautiful (most of the time). The store is clean, well lit, well presented. Wal Mart often looks like the hell hole it is. I DESPISE WALMART. I refuse to have anything to do with it and actually tried to give away a GC to Wal Mart my brother gave us. My Dh used it to put gas in his car...







I will not support a company that treats its employees like dispensable garbage and doesn't give anything back to the communities. Walmart also sees fit to supersaturate a market with it's hideous box-like stores, not giving a damn about anything else. Target, OTOH, only has two within a reasonable driving distance from my house. There are approximately four in the same radius. And, they are thinking of building another, despite community protests.







:


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

A small reason, but a reason none-the-less that I prefer Target over Walmart is that in all the Targets I have been in the formula is in with the soap & medicine (Health & Beauty) maybe







rather than in Walmart where it is in with the baby clothes, car seats, stuff like that. I like the distinction.


----------



## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

yeah we have like four targets but seven or so walmarts and they're trying to build another. It is a large city but come on. Target has one in everycorner(you know n, s, e, w) while walmart has one everyocrnera dn every croos corner. It's annoying.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I boycott WalMart. There is no Target here, but I would boycott it too after the epidural shirt and bababib. Sure, you can boycoot a product, but stores also have a responsibility too, and one way to get them to accept responsibility is through a boycott. Maybe an epidural shirt isn't a big deal to you, but it is to me because of the largely unknown risks (and I had an epidural- not knocking anyone that has one). What is they carried a shirt that advocated something risky for other groups?


----------



## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

I prefer to give to The Salvation Army because I see what good they do in my community, I know how large their homeless shelter is and it's always full, I've volunteered there and I see what they do. As far as I know they don't discriminate in their hiring practices. If you know of a specific story, please post.

I think what some may be refering to happened three or so years ago when they decided to not offer health benefits to domestic partners (I think it started in California?). The press blew it all out of proportion as did the far right saying that it was a gay issue. It wasn't directed at gays/lesbians -- it was a decision to not offer benefits to any domestic unmarried partner whether you were homosexual, heterosexual, or any adult dependents such as an eldery parent.

I know plenty of companies that have the same policy and are not seen as discriminatory. I think the Salvation Army was singled out because they are a church. Now, I'm sure there are isolated incidents as with any large organization where ugly things have happened (and hopefully dealt with so they aren't repeated) but overall the dealings I've had with them have always shown them to be caring and nondiscriminatory.

I know The Salvation Army isn't perfect but where I am they do a lot to help my community. I also know Target isn't perfect and they have every right to decide to not have solicitors at their stores. I miss the bell ringers, always made it feel like Christmas, but I still love Target and will shop there.


----------



## athansor (Feb 9, 2005)

I know I should stop shopping at Wal-Mart for a variety of reasons (there's no Target nearby, and the town where I work just got a super Wal-Mart). It usually takes something more direct to get me to actually quit shopping somewhere, though, but this week, Wal-Mart did it for me.

We live 25 miles out of town, so we try to be efficient and get as much out of a trip into town. We needed a few things, so we though we would go to the Wal-Mart to save on trips. As usual, they have one of the wheels with the plastic bags attached, so they stick your stuff in a bag, then spin it around for you to pick up and put in your cart. No matter how many times we request that they put as many items in the bags as possible, they persist in putting one or two items in a bag. So, this time, we had two very small items (and one of them was the main reason we made the trip). They put each of these items in a seperate bag, and the items were so small you couldn't see them. We drove all the way home, only to discover we didn't have the stuff. (this has happened to us before also). For some reason, that really annoyed me, so I think I'm done with Wal-Mart.

I was talking to a friend, who also theorized that the quality of stuff at Wal-Mart was somewhat less than the quality of the same items when purchased at another store. She figured that it might be that with the pressure Wal-Mart puts on its suppliers, they may have to manufacture a slightly different product for Wal-Mart so that they can do it cheaply enough. I don't know if that is true or not, I'd be curious if anyone has experienced something like that.

The times I've made the trip to Target, it's been a positive experience all around, and I was impressed with their selection of breastfeeding supplies.


----------



## loftmama (Feb 12, 2004)

Good Will Hunter - you brought up a good reason to not like Wal-Mart

Quote:

Walmart also sees fit to supersaturate a market with it's hideous box-like stores, not giving a damn about anything else.
My dh used to be a commercial realtor. In the town where we used to live, there is vacant big box building that used to be a Wal-Mart that sits right next to freeway in a prominent part of town and in one of the growing nicer parts of town. It has been vacant for probably 10 years now, ever since they built a newer, bigger, super Wal-Mart just down the street. When I asked my dh why why why this huge box-like building with ugly parking lot isn't being used for something else, he told me that Wal-Mart makes it very, very, very difficult for anyone to buy their building and use their property. Something about a no-competition thing and since they sell just about everything, no one can come in and use it. So it sits there, an ugly blight, in a community that is really trying improve its looks, an easy target for graffitti, vandalism, etc. Before anyone lets a Wal-Mart, or Target for that matter, come into their town, they should really look at what will happen if/when the retailer should decide to move/enlarge, etc.


----------



## BoxOfRainMama (Jan 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathipaul*
I like Target, too! The Salvation Army issue is that Target does not allow charities to solicit for money on or outside their stores. That means no bell ringers at xmas. That started last year and some people got upset and boycotted Target.

Im late jumping in on this thread and have not read all the way through but I wanted to mention I love target. I shop there weekly (sometimes more) the target stores in my area give a ton of dead merchindise to Goodwill and Salvation Army... also places I shop on a regular basis.


----------



## pilesoflaundry (Dec 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RothMommy*
Im late jumping in on this thread and have not read all the way through but I wanted to mention I love target. I shop there weekly (sometimes more) the target stores in my area give a ton of dead merchindise to Goodwill and Salvation Army... also places I shop on a regular basis.

I was going to say this, anything that goes "salvage" meaning if it didn't sell after the lowest price they wanted for it, it goes to goodwill/salvation army. (although I heard they pay per. lb. for it. it's not free but only heard this from one person) Anyway, they don't allow anyone to solicite for donations, not just the salvation army. They give to a lot of charities and schools though on their own







.

I think Target is a ton better than walmart, any store can have "something" about them to boycott but either way I need to buy some things and if I have a choice I always choose target over walmart. (if there isn't a small indy store to buy from instead, in my town it's all big box







)


----------



## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

I'm a big Target supporter. My dh has worked for them for the last 9 years and I have no complaints at all. They pay a good wage to all levels of team members and offer insurance at a reasonable cost.

My dh claims that the RDIF don't work outside of their own warehouses/stores. I don't know anything about them, but could find out more or make my dh post if anyone was interested.







They also give so much back to the community. Habitat for Humanity, reading groups for kids, basketball tournaments for charities, grants to local law enforcement.

Ds and I stopped at the Goodwill store by us today and found TONS of Target merchandise there. All the Valentine's day candles were 50 cents! Lots of winter gear, gloves, hats and stuff. Also a few pieces of assemble-yourself furniture. I was really surprised to see so much!

Most retailers don't sell damaged or display merchandise to employees. Too many people try to cheat the system and ruin it for everyone. It sucks and is so wasteful but not selling it cuts down on a lot of "accidents". I worked for Eddie Bauer for a long time and my store stopped selling damages when someone cut an $800 leather chair to get it at the "chip and dent" sale for cheap.


----------



## mainegirl (Jul 13, 2004)

I didn't see any mention here about these large chain stores offering a majority of international cheap-labor merchandise, often made by minors for pennies a day. Does that bother anyone when they shop at these places?


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

It bothers me, Mainegirl. I have been chainstore-free since December!


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

It kinda bothers me that minors might make some of the stuff we buy when we buy cheap stuff but I am not sure what the conditions they work in or even if they are making the stuff I buy. I would need to do more research. In many countries in the world, children have to work to help support the family. I would not want children to work as slaves, in dangerous or unsafe conditions, nor in conditions that put their education or health at risk. But if the family cannot get by without them working, what right do I have to say they cannot work. It breaks my heart to think of little kids working instead of going to school or playing but if it is part of the culture that children have to help support the family, then boycotting any products they make are actually hurting kids, not helping them.

Is there a way to find out if products are made by child slaves versus children working in reasonable conditions? I would boycott anything made by anyone who is enslaved, but boycotting products made by all children is just hurting them rather than helping them. It might actually lead to enslavement because if families cannot find legal work for their children, they might sell them to not starve to death.

We are lucky to live in a country where most of our children can wile away their days learning and playing. Most of the rest of the world does not share that luxury.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I cannot agree Kathipaul (though I am a large user of child labor, I know).

The US used to "need" child labor. Until it was illegal. Then they started paying a higher wage to women and men--- enough to support a family on and allow their children to go to school. In many of these countries, there is mass unemployment, it is just children who get the employment because they are easily taken advantage of are paid less.


----------



## sistermama (May 6, 2003)

Just wanted to add about Target, if you notice around Christmas they take all the display trees down about two weeks before Christmas. That's because they donate them fully decorated to local nonprofits like the one I work for, who in turn give them to low income families. Just a little insignificant thing, but nice none the less.


----------



## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Check the undersides of things. See where it's made. Check out the environment & pay of the workers. Then decide where you want to shop.


----------



## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:

Is there a way to find out if products are made by child slaves versus children working in reasonable conditions?
Just check the tags. You know good and well if it were made in USA that children didn't suffer in a sweatshop. Buying US made items also helps our economy and send the message to companies who are outsourcing their labor that we don't need them! It's getting harder and harder to find stuff made in US anymore, though....


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*
Just check the tags. You know good and well if it were made in USA that children didn't suffer in a sweatshop. Buying US made items also helps our economy and send the message to companies who are outsourcing their labor that we don't need them! It's getting harder and harder to find stuff made in US anymore, though....

I've read that there are still (illegal of course) sweatshops in the U.S. on some kind of investigative tv show.


----------



## MamaFae (Sep 24, 2004)

Wow there are so many things in this thread I want to comment on I don't know where to start!! Warning







ahead!

First I believe we do more of a service by speaking out to companies about the products they carry and they way they market them that we feel our in poor taste, harmful, or put people at risk (the epi shirt and bababib are just two examples). If we as consumers speak out and get those products removed from sale then we have shown the companies in question where our values are and what we expect from them and if they pull the products we are being heard! That is much more powerful than silently refusing to spend your dollars at that store. The company doesn't know why you are boycotting, unless you write them a letter every time you chose to buy something at another store because of your boycott (being dramatic here I know that isn't realistic!). Or at least write letters on a regular basis letting them know your opposition to their practices.

Do you realize how quickly Target removed that epidural shirt from their website? Within a week of the information being spread about on the internet and after all the letters we and others sent it was GONE! That is power ladies!







Circulate the info about the Bababib and I bet we get the same response if the same amount of letters go to corporate.

As for the waste issue. I have worked so many places many of them retail. It is standard practice at just about any major store. Like was said before the only way that will change is if it becomes more profitable to donate than to trash damaged items. That is an unfortunate byproduct of the consumer driven lifestyle our culture has. There are ways to start that change and communities like Freecycle are a part of that. And many many local Target and other chain like stores do donate to Goodwill and other thrift stores. I have even helped sort out end of season stuff that was to go to our local Goodwill.

I worked for Target for a few months until I found out that I was pregnant with this baby, and the MS got too bad to keep working. I enjoyed it for the most part. The pay was better than any other entry level retail I had ever worked, they offered benefits to their parttimers as well as their fulltimers, and they were always giving away stuff to the employees.
I do agree that their return policy is stiff, but they unfortunately have to be sticklers because of the problem with shoplifters and employee theft. It is much higher in places like Target due to the sheer size of the stores. Trust me that return policy helps keep prices low.

I do my best to avoid Walmart/Kmart because of the same reasons many have stated here, but like others who have posted the bottom line well being of my family is paramount to some of the other issues. If I only have $10 for the week and I am out of milk, I will go to the chain store rather than Trader Joes because I need to stretch that money as far as it will go. Same with Target vs Walmart.

As for the Salvation Army issue, my values keep me from giving to them, and if I go to a store that allows bell ringers I will tell them why they aren't getting my spare change. I believe that charities that limit their giving and employment based on religion and sexual preference wrong. But that is my belief. Again if SA requests donations from me I have no problem saying no, but I don't just say no. I tell them why. I figure the only way they will change is if they understand why they aren't getting my money.

In closing I believe that Target is a far better company and does a lot more for their employees and the community that Walmart does. I think that if you choose to boycott anything because of your principles it is important that you let the person/company/maker of the product that you are boycotting that you are doing so and why otherwise it is not nearly as effective as you may think. I agree that it is important to stand on your principles and on your values by taking action, but simply avoiding a place you don't like without any other actions, isn't taking action. Write letters, stand in protests, and spread the word that is how we get change.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaFae*
I agree that it is important to stand on your principles and on your values by taking action, but simply avoiding a place you don't like without any other actions, isn't taking action. Write letters, stand in protests, and spread the word that is how we get change.

We all do what we can. I would never presume to tell someone that they aren't taking action because they "only" choose to boycott.


----------



## MamaFae (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

I would never presume to tell someone that they aren't taking action because they "only" choose to boycott.









I agree that we each should do what we can to work toward positive change, and I am not _telling_ anyone anything I am only stating my opinion of what works. I truly believe that a boycott only works if the company being boycotted knows it is happening and why that is what boycotting is to me. Perhaps my wording was a bit harsh and I wasn't clear that _what I typed was only my opinion_.







Let me clarify, _I believe_ you have to go farther than not shopping at walmart to get the policies changed.









I have heard so many people in my lifetime say they boycott this place or another, and yet they have NEVER written a letter to the company to tell them so. So tell me how does that effect the company? If they don't know why they aren't getting your money they can't change the issue you have a problem with.

It has happened so many times and there are many situations where I don't see any change as a result. I can think of one boycott that was all the rage when I was in high school. Many of the local Christian churches were encouraging their members to boycott their local burger king because of that companies advertising during some of the more violent programming on network TV. I asked my pastor at that time if he had bothered to write BK and tell them why he was boycotting and that he was encouraging his congregation to do so. He said no. Think of the impact he could have had. If he had written BK and told them that he and his 500+ memeber congregation have chosen to boycott them. Have you seen any change in BK's advertising? NO. Just a little example I know, but it is part of what formed my opinion about boycotting methods.

Again I am sorry if I offended. It is truly just my opinion. Not spending your dollars somewhere you don't agree with the policies is indeed better than doing nothing at all, I would just like to see it go one step farther.

Sincerely,


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I think I understand what you are saying.








It's just that we all have different ways and styles of activism- if I wriote, picketed, or otherwise actively protested every single group that ticked me off, I would be one busy mama with no time for my kids. I pick and choose where to direct my fiercest mama energies!


----------



## MamaFae (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:

I would be one busy mama with no time for my kids. I pick and choose where to direct my fiercest mama energies!
Oh I soooooo totally get that!


----------



## kathipaul (Sep 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa*
I've read that there are still (illegal of course) sweatshops in the U.S. on some kind of investigative tv show.

That is absolutely and unfortunately true. The direction this thread has gone prompted me to do some research. I found the following organization:

INTERNATIONAL LABOUR ORGANIZATION
ILOLEX: the ILO's database on International Labour Standards

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/st...ntion/text.htm

They have some interesting information on child labor worldwide, including the following definitions:

Child labor vs. child work

Child work: Children's participation in economic activity - that does not negatively affect their health and development or interfere with education, can be positive. Work that does not interfere with education (light work) is permitted from the age of 12 years under the International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention 138.

Child labour: This is more narrowly defined and refers to children working in contravention of the above standards. This means all children below 12 years of age working in any economic activities, those aged 12 to 14 years engaged in harmful work, and all children engaged in the worst forms of child labour.

Worst forms of child labour: These involve children being enslaved, forcibly recruited, prostituted, trafficked, forced into illegal activities and exposed to hazardous work.

I also found the following organizations which have specific information on child labor and companies like Target.

http://www.sweatshops.org/

http://www.greenpages.org/

http://www.responsibleshopper.org/

I agree with some writers that Target is not as bad as some companies. I do intend to still shop there for certain items. However, I will balance it out by shopping at our local grocery co-op.

I would also like to note that recent laws state that US companies can put "made in the us" on their products if they are made in part in the us. So, made in the us does not necessarily mean better. For example, I used to work in the bridal industry and it was standard practice for beading and lacework to be done overseas and have the final garmet put together in the us so it could have the "made in the us" label.

Thanks for continuing this very interesting discussion!


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

What I've read and saw on tv has had to do with illegal sweatshops with illegal immigrants. I am not necessarily saying it is true, but I don't know how you could prove that it is categorically untrue.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Oops sorry. I thought you said it was absolutely untrue. I'm s-m-r-t.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

If there are sex shops in America with illegal immmigrant children, I have no problem believing there are sweat shops as well. It makes me so sad to think of people who come here thinking it is the land of opportunity, and end up in just-as-bad or worse conditions than where they left.


----------

