# Three "perfect" kids in church on Easter



## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

On Easter Sunday dh and I sat behind a couple with whom we attended our new member class to join the church. We were both pregnant with our second during the class (our babies are 15 mo and our older kids are both about 4) and I was surprised to see that they had a 5-month-old as well. I just thought the 15 month old must be small for his age when I first saw them carrying in a baby carrier









Anyway, All. Three. Boys. sat perfectly silently throughout the 75 minute service. The five-month-old was wide awake and staring at his dad the whole time in his carrier. He never rooted or sucked on a paci or his fingers or anything. The mother held the toddler and he also just looked around the whole time but didn't wiggle or try to get down or babble or anything. She did end up reading him a couple of books toward the very end. The older boy sat and colored in the children's bulletin and played with some small toys he had brought but never got up and never said a word.

How in the world does someone get their children to act like that? Dh said, "What are we doing wrong?" I said "nothing" but I couldn't help but have just a tiny bit of self-doubt.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

It's just personality. Some kids are more adventurous than others. Some are more talkative. They might just be really quite kids.

We are not a quite family and Kailey definitely is not aquite kid. She listens well in public but could never sit silently for so long. She wants to explore too much.

You aren't doing anything wrong, and neither are we. We just have different families with different personalities, ya know?

Relax









PS- love your sig and wish the people around me understood the dangers of forward facing to early.


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## OboePlayerMom (May 23, 2005)

I aspire to be that family!







My 3.5 yo sits with me in church, and some Sundays he's completely captivated by the books and coloring I bring along, and other Sundays he'd rather crawl around under the pew. I think it depends on the child's personality (DS is usually pretty mellow), what the child has to be entertained with, and what mood the child is in that morning. And it's really hard not to compare ourselves to the families around us, but I bet everyone's spent some time comparing themselves to the quiet family - even the quiet family isn't always the quiet family!


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Potty Diva* 
PS- love your sig and wish the people around me understood the dangers of forward facing to early.

Thanks. A thread inspired me to change it last night and it has already impacted one member (that I know of) so that alone was worth it!


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

Everybody's got their challenges. Maybe that mom will say to her DH, "What are we doing wrong?" when her shy, quiet kids refuse to speak or even look anyone in the eye when a teacher asks them questions in class, and your gregarious, adventurous kids are shooting their hands up to be called on. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything...


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

A lot of it has to do with child temperment, absolutely. As well as what the family values and how much the kid's desire to please their parents weighs against their need to move or explore. With such young kids, its hard to know what they are "doing" to make it so perfect.

But, I learned the hard way a few months back not to make assumptions. There is a family at our church that does not agree with the schedule that sends kids off to Sunday School during the regular Sunday service (ie. the kids start with parents in church, go to Sunday School, come back for communion). So they keep their kids in the pews. Which is fine, of course. I marveled at how well behaved their seemingly 4 and 6 YOs were. Until one day I was sitting behind them and I heard the mother say to the dad, "X gets a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service." Awful all in itself, but even worse because I, sitting behind them, had never heard her make a sound and she barely moved! In fact, the parent's comment was far more disrubtive than the child was!


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:

The older boy sat and colored in the children's bulletin and played with some small toys he had brought but never got up and never said a word.
That sounds like my 4 yo. He is *really* good with church. Give him a pen and paper, and he's happy.

My two-year old still once in a while will babble but a simple reminder is enough. If he gets too wiggly and starts distracting people, I take him out.

I don't have naturally quiet boys, so getting to the point where my 4 yo does as well as he does took a loooong time. I'm usually out at least twice during the service for at least the first year with each of them so far.

Maybe they just have really laid-back kids?


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
A lot of it has to do with child temperment, absolutely. As well as what the family values and how much the kid's desire to please their parents weighs against their need to move or explore. With such young kids, its hard to know what they are "doing" to make it so perfect.

But, I learned the hard way a few months back not to make assumptions. There is a family at our church that does not agree with the schedule that sends kids off to Sunday School during the regular Sunday service (ie. the kids start with parents in church, go to Sunday School, come back for communion). So they keep their kids in the pews. Which is fine, of course. I marveled at how well behaved their seemingly 4 and 6 YOs were. Until one day I was sitting behind them and I heard the mother say to the dad, "X gets a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service." Awful all in itself, but even worse because I, sitting behind them, had never heard her make a sound and she barely moved! In fact, the parent's comment was far more disrubtive than the child was!

True, don't make assumptions. That poor child! I am thankful for my spirited children and wouldn't trade them for the quiet ones even on thier worst days!LOL It also sounds like this mom brought plenty of entertainment for her children.

If you haven't already watched it, Alfie Kohn's dvd "unconditional parenting"is great at explaining what our society thinks of as "good"behavior and why it's not always the best.
Lisa


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Until one day I was sitting behind them and I heard the mother say to the dad, "X gets a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service." Awful all in itself, but even worse because I, sitting behind them, had never heard her make a sound and she barely moved! In fact, the parent's comment was far more disrubtive than the child was!


Seriously?!?!
Okay, while I don't approve and haven't done it myself, I do understand when a parent loses it and swats a kid. I do not think it's right--it's a mistake that I understand. (Again, I've never done it myself and don't approve.) But planning on hitting your child two days in a row so coldly? How sad. And she didn't cry or anything? She must be so beaten down to have no reaction.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Some kids are just mellow. And some kids are spanked into submission







:


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Some kids are just mellow. And some kids are spanked into submission







:

Yeah, the spanking thing did cross my mind while I was sitting there. I really hope that's not it though. The kids just seemed very, I don't know, trained. The oldest did have a sparkle in his eye when I caught his eye, but the younger two didn't smile at all.

I agree that some kids have "easier" personalities than others because I have one of each. My ds (4) is pretty active and has always been a challenge. My dd is very mellow and a very "easy" baby but still, she's a baby (15 months) and I don't think it would be developmentally normal for her to sit in church like that. So, for their own reasons, neither would behave like that unless, I supposed, they were spanked into submission







And neither would have sat in a baby carrier for 1 hr and 15 minutes wide awake. In fact, neither would have gone that long without nursing.

Dd actually went to the nursery for the first time on Sunday. I used to keep her in the sling and about halfway through she'd fall asleep. But now she wiggles to get out and babbles very loudly, so I figured she'd rather go play with the toys and the other kids, and I was right. She loved it and didn't want to leave


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

That is So unfair.









It is common knowledge that God has only a few of "those" kids, and he only gives each family ONE. (some families don't even get one)

My daughter is/was like that. She could sit and play quietly for hours on a plane, in church, etc. Even as an infant. As long as she wasn't tired, she was one of "Those" kids. However, when she was tired, she was a bear.

So, I stopped at one kid.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

It may be the children are mellow. It may be they aren't mellow but had an unusually quiet morning. It may be the children are trained to be compliant and first-time obedient from birth. There is really no way to know unless you ask the parents. In any case I would ask before making assumptions, and I definitely wouldn't aspire to be like them without knowing how they got there, kwim? If it's temper/personality, you cannot do anything about that, and if it was just a lucky day for them, you can't control that either. If they are baby trainers, you'd need a whole other mindset about parenting to justify the fallout from that kind of approach.

Really, you don't know, so don't assume, and let it go....


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I kind of worry about kids like that myself... a baby that doesn't seek out interaction? - doesn't sound developmentally appropriate.

When we are at synagogue I'm trying to corral dd to her seat and ds is crawling all over me - I don't think threatening a spanking would do a lick (pardon the pun) of good. The older people in the synagogue complement us that the kids are well behaved - so it has never occurred to me to want them to sit like little zombies.


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
But, I learned the hard way a few months back not to make assumptions. There is a family at our church that does not agree with the schedule that sends kids off to Sunday School during the regular Sunday service (ie. the kids start with parents in church, go to Sunday School, come back for communion). So they keep their kids in the pews. Which is fine, of course. I marveled at how well behaved their seemingly 4 and 6 YOs were. Until one day I was sitting behind them and I heard the mother say to the dad, "X gets a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service." Awful all in itself, but even worse because I, sitting behind them, had never heard her make a sound and she barely moved! In fact, the parent's comment was far more disrubtive than the child was!

Yuck, yuck, yuck. I hate spanking at all, but even more so to enforce chuch behaviour. It seems more likely to turn the kids against the church than anything else.


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

Don't worry about kids like that when you see them, 2blue. My two both act just like the OP quiet kids in situations like that, and have since birth. They are both very shy, and are just taking in everything around them- there's plenty to watch in a church service- fans, the people in the next row, what your siblings are doing- if you've got one of those kids who likes to observe.

I just hate to think someone would see my kids out and about and think a)we spank them or b) there's something wrong with them I haven't noticed.







We're just a mellow little tribe. It comes with its own challenges, for sure, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hempmama* 
Don't worry about kids like that when you see them, 2blue. My two both act just like the OP quiet kids in situations like that, and have since birth. They are both very shy, and are just taking in everything around them- there's plenty to watch in a church service- fans, the people in the next row, what your siblings are doing- if you've got one of those kids who likes to observe.

I just hate to think someone would see my kids out and about and think a)we spank them or b) there's something wrong with them I haven't noticed.







We're just a mellow little tribe. It comes with its own challenges, for sure, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it.









:

We're the same way. DS is 2.5 and he's just now wanting to start participating in stuff. Before, he was totally happy to lounge in our laps and observe, then talk about everything he saw on the way home -- he doesn't miss a thing! I'd hate for someone seeing us to think that we hurt him to "make" him be that way, or that he's an unthinking zombie or something. He's incredibly bright, delightful, energetic, playful, silly, inquisitive, observant, sweet, nurturing, and funny. But he will also sit still with us for long periods when we're in a large group of people.

And it kind of hurts for someone to say "I'd take my spirited kid any day over one of those quiet ones." I mean, obviously you'd want your kid any day over *any* other kid, but I can't imagine you'd like me to make the opposite comment. When I see kids being loud in public, I don't think, "Geez, can't those parents control their kids?" and I'd like to think that other parents don't see my DS and think, "Geez, doesn't that mom let her kid have any fun?"


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hempmama* 
Everybody's got their challenges. Maybe that mom will say to her DH, "What are we doing wrong?" when her shy, quiet kids refuse to speak or even look anyone in the eye when a teacher asks them questions in class, and your gregarious, adventurous kids are shooting their hands up to be called on. Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything...










Amen to that! I've got one of each - one child who never said a peep and one who insists on singing right along with the pastor.







My reserved introvert is much harder for me to watch in classroom or interactive settings because I KNOW he can do the things they ask and yet he never says boo. He won't sing along, he won't do hand motions. Heck, he didn't say a word to his Sunday School teacher for 2 years! Since I was the kid shooting my hand up in the air to be called on, it's hard for me to watch him not participate. I have to keep deep breathing and reciting "the world needs listeners too."


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

I had that same temperment as a little one. My mom could bring a bag of toys, and I'd sit quietly with my stuff. My son likes to get up and run around.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

All my kids were capable of behaving like that but my youngest in particular was able to sit for long periods being perfectly quiet.

I did nothing! It was just personality! DS#3 was very, very mellow. The older two were shy and very attached so they wanted to be near me. They were quiet because they wouldn't leave my lap.

you can never tell. It may just be the kids.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Well, I guess I should put in a caveat - I have never actually *seen* kids behave like that - never. That's why I'm imagining some creepy zoombie kids!









I do think it is odd for a baby to sit through a whole church service and not need any interaction - if she's not sleeping. I think it's weird - but I've never had anything but high interaction kids who look me in the eye at birth and start making themselves known. No way in a million years would either of my babies sit in a baby carrier and watch a ceiling fan.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I know you're trying to be lighthearted, but several posters have mentioned that they have kids who behave that way sometimes, so it's rather insensitive to continue to use words like "creepy zombies" and "weird" to describe them.


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## Mama2 '05'06 (Mar 5, 2006)

Dd sits in church w/o much fuss. Sometimes she forgets and starts talking. Ds, well, he yells and jabbers so loudly that you can hear him above the singing. Dd never did that. Ds smiles and jabbers at anybody. Dd hides her face and/or cries if anybody looks at her.


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## cuddleluvinma (Jun 6, 2006)

Lynn6 and hempmama--
It seems that you are thinking that Even&Anna'smom was just guessing that the children got spanked. But she was only commenting on a situation that she had seen. She had heard the mother say to the father "she get's a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service". Which is soooo sad.







:

Other than that...as far as the OP. You never can be sure about why those children sat there so quietly and there is definitely nothing wrong with that or for not being like that. Neither wrong or should be changed. Its people, we're all different. Thank goodness!


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts but I am going to guess that mine will be the dissenting opinion. I do not think that YOU are doing anything wrong. I too would love to know what these parents have done to get their kids to pretty much go against the grain of being a child. It is not wrong for a four year old to not be able to sit silently for 75 minutes. It is certainly not wrong for a 15 month old to not sit silently for 75 minutes. It most absolutely definitely is not wrong for a 5 month old to make any semblance of noise or have any needs at all for 75 minutes.
I have strong suspicions when it comes to things like this. Almost all kids I know are physical little creatures, that is how they learn and how they live and how they experience the world. I see nothing wrong with not expecting young kids to not sit quietly during church. In my mind that is far too much to expect.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
Some kids are just mellow. And some kids are spanked into submission







:

I have a friend who has two boys and one was mellow and one was not. She never spanked them and they both act decently in church. Go figure.


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## BundleFishMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I agree that temperament is a factor, and that there are probably some parents who use non-gentle discipline to enforce compliance, and also that some kids go through easier and harder phases at different points in their development (I know mine have been better or worse in church and other "sitting quietly for long-ish periods" settings such as nice restaurants, etc.)

But one thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is just habit and practice - for us a big part of our gentle discipline is teaching correct behavior and modeling it and reinforcing it through practice. I know this is a generalization and I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, but many of the people I know who complain about how their kids behave in church/temple/etc. go irregularly and it doesn't seem to be all that important to them.

For our family, the Mass is the center of our lives and the most important thing we do all week, so we make sure the kids know that. They know that (unless someone is very ill) we go to Mass every week (sometimes more than once a week) and there are no exceptions. We make a big deal about getting dressed up in the morning, planning a special family lunch or activity for afterward, letting the kids pick which pew we sit in and greet the priest before or after Mass, put money in the collection baskets themselves, light a candle (with our help) and decide whom they want to pray for, etc. We talk to them about what our expectations are and why (because we believe Jesus Himself is there). There is no food or drink or pens or crayons or anything like that allowed in our church, so they look at religious kids' books etc.

Are our kids always perfect? No, definitely not - but I think they are usually pretty great, as much as can be expected for their ages. And I really attribute a lot of that to simple habit, that since they were born, literally, they have consistently been to church every week and they see how important it is to their parents. I think lots of us often underestimate our kids and if we're consistent, they can learn to conduct themselves nicely in almost any situation!


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

I have to agree with BundleFishMamma- I think patterning is a hige part of this.
Teaching them by example is a good goal in every part of life- and I think church is no different.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
so it's rather insensitive to continue to use words like "creepy zombies" and "weird" to describe them.

Hmm, I was explaining why I used those words the first time - in an attempt at sensitivity.

But really, I don't know why anyone would care what I thought of their kids in church - like it's any of my business!


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## Thalia (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:

I have strong suspicions when it comes to things like this. Almost all kids I know are physical little creatures, that is how they learn and how they live and how they experience the world.
If you had read the thread, you would have seen that several mamas here have already explained that their children were quiet like this on a regular basis simply due to their own little personalities. Yes, exploring is one way of learning and experiencing the world, but observing and listening is another. In my own experience, I've seen babies and kids do plenty of both. To me, there is nothing suspicious about a child who enjoys listening and observing what's going on without feeling the need to interact once in a while, especially when there is a voice and music to listen to, and faces to look at.


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

I was a child who was able to sit through a service, meeting etc at a fairly young age. My parents were not freaks who threatened constant physical punishment, independent of my parents I would have sit quietly. I liked it, still do. I have a child who at 6 (as of yesterday!) is completely unable to sit quietly and with minimal moving through a drive-thru.

Seriously. The child talks, wiggles, looks everywhere with full body movements all of the time. If she is completely engrossed in something she occasionally has amazing powers to be still but if not watch out. There is no way a "normal" or typical service would be an activity that would result in my daughter sitting still. If she is interested she talks, if she is not-interested she lets you know, if she sees something that she wants to learn about she wants to walk over to it, if she observing something she wants to share it etc.

I think I have a kid who is on the far side of active or very verbally moved it is odd for ME to see kids who sit quietly. It isn't bad obviously! I don't think there is anything wrong with the child or the parents. I am just in awe of the fact that some parents can in fact, sit down with their child and actually pay attention to something other than their child. It is such a foreign idea because I have had nearly 6 years of not being able to do such a thing.

When I see other kids sitting I probably do seem a bit judgmental. I am not judging, I just have been so busy following my child around that I haven't had a moment to see that not everyone else is doing the same thing. Remember I SAT as a child so my child is a bit of a shock to me. I also only have one at the moment so I don't have a lot to compare the mothering experience with.

This past year has been the first time that I have had a moment to look around because there are a few places dd will actually go do thing without interacting continually. I have seen tons of kids who do like to quietly observe, or "hang-out." I am hoping some of them play with my dd!









OT: I have friends who bring their babies to lunch, their children to coffee etc and expect to be able to chat. They are just now seeing my dd come with me because she is able to sit for longer periods without direct interaction. I was not able to have a conversation with another adult if my dd was with me for years. (and I am not talking about an hour long conversation either I am looking for 10 minutes while she plays with an activity bag) And yes I have brought her to a coffeeshop or the equivalent nearly EVERY DAY for her entire life,modeling the appropriate behaviour, showing her people who are having conversations that are not 100% focused on their child, having other people meet us, etc. It isn't that my dd is completely self centered she just wants to be 100% verbally included in everything. Oh, and she has a tendency to wander, explore and otherwise examine her environment physically and in very methodical manner that may be prone to using actual experimentation. You would NEVER see my child at a church service were quiet was a requirement. I am the epitome of modeling quiet, polite, reserved behavior in such situations but that doesn't mean my child is the same sort of person at this age. You can have perfect modeling and still have children who just aren't modeled by the modeling.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Until one day I was sitting behind them and I heard the mother say to the dad, "X gets a spanking today and tomorrow because she was disruptive twice during the service." Awful all in itself, but even worse because I, sitting behind them, had never heard her make a sound and she barely moved! In fact, the parent's comment was far more disrubtive than the child was!

After I had a bit of time to recover from the utter shock, I would have leaned forward:

"Excuse me madam, but I am trying to concentrate on God's love for his children, would you please refrain from discussing hitting your own children? It is far more disruptive than whatever you have imagined your child has done. Thank you so much."

And then made certain to never ever ever sit anywhere near that family again.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Once in a blue moon all 3 of my children seem "well behaved." When this happens and I hear another child having a tantrum and the family sees us, I want to run over to the parent and say, "Look, we are just having a good moment right now-- normally it is NOT like this!"









But yeah, I know a family like that. They are absolutely AP and the mom is super, super gentle. She has 4 children and the youngest are very close in age but she never seems flustered, even out and about alone. I want to follow her around to learn!


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
It is common knowledge that God has only a few of "those" kids, and he only gives each family ONE. (some families don't even get one)











I see this has turned into a bit of a debate. I didn't intend to seem judgemental about the family, even though I admit the training thing did cross my mind







I guess I was just mostly surprised because it kind of seems like, from what I see IRL, nextcommercial is correct that God equally distributes kids among families









So I guess my main surprise was that _all three_ of the boys sat that way.

But heartmama is absolutely right that they could just all be mellow, all be having a good day, or be trained to be obedient. Or Bundlefishmama could be right that it is just practice.

You guys are right, I don't know the whole situation. I guess I was also a little jealous that they can worship with their kids, because I truly think that is ideal, for a family to worship together if you attend a service--I guess we could try it one Sunday.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisa49* 
If you haven't already watched it, Alfie Kohn's dvd "unconditional parenting"is great at explaining what our society thinks of as "good"behavior and why it's not always the best.
Lisa


Ooh where can I get this? I checked amazon but couldnt find it. admittedly, i havent read any of his stuff but I've read about him on this forum and I'm intrigued. I've worried about dh and I being inconsistent and him not having the time to read a book, but I think I could get him to watch a dvd with me!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I am curious now--were they doing *anything* to keep the babies quiet? Any patting? Snuggling? Nursing? Rocking or swaying?

When others say their children were "just like this"...what do you mean?

Do you mean that you had very mellow, quiet babies, but you were doing subtle things during events like this which your child's mellow temper accepted easily and without protest? Such as having a quiet toy you were holding, or rocking to lull them, or patting your baby's back, or a quick nursing, or very subtle interactions here and there that you offered based on cues that your child was restless? Essentially, that your babies were naturally mellow, but you were also watching their cues and meeting needs, but they were of the quiet, easy-to-comfort type of need?

Or do you mean you could literally have zero interaction with your baby in public for a full 75 minutes--no nursing, rocking, patting, subtle games or distractions, but simply put the child down, pick up a hymnal, and do anything further?

These seem very different to me. I wonder which the OP meant?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I am curious now--were they doing *anything* to keep the babies quiet? Any patting? Snuggling? Nursing? Rocking or swaying?

When others say their children were "just like this"...what do you mean?

Do you mean that you had very mellow, quiet babies, but you were doing subtle things during events like this which your child's mellow temper accepted easily and without protest? Such as having a quiet toy you were holding, or rocking to lull them, or patting your baby's back, or a quick nursing, or very subtle interactions here and there that you offered based on cues that your child was restless? Essentially, that your babies were naturally mellow, but you were also watching their cues and meeting needs, but they were of the quiet, easy-to-comfort type of need?

Or do you mean you could literally have zero interaction with your baby in public for a full 75 minutes--no nursing, rocking, patting, subtle games or distractions, but simply put the child down, pick up a hymnal, and do anything further?

These seem very different to me. I wonder which the OP meant?

That's a good distinction. I typically experience the former with DS (subtly comforting although there are no outward cues that comfort is needed). I think it's more just because I like touching and connecting with him, though -- it feels more natural to have my hand resting on his tummy or patting his back than just placing it in my lap, you know?

But there were times, particularly at crowded or loud restaurants, where DS would really just sit there and chill out long enough for us to have a 40-minute dinner without needing to pick him up or anything. I think, for him, part of it was a coping mechanism to deal with all the stimulation of people and noises -- he just kind of quieted himself and took it all in.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I am curious now--were they doing *anything* to keep the babies quiet? Any patting? Snuggling? Nursing? Rocking or swaying?

When others say their children were "just like this"...what do you mean?

Do you mean that you had very mellow, quiet babies, but you were doing subtle things during events like this which your child's mellow temper accepted easily and without protest? Such as having a quiet toy you were holding, or rocking to lull them, or patting your baby's back, or a quick nursing, or very subtle interactions here and there that you offered based on cues that your child was restless? Essentially, that your babies were naturally mellow, but you were also watching their cues and meeting needs, but they were of the quiet, easy-to-comfort type of need?

Or do you mean you could literally have zero interaction with your baby in public for a full 75 minutes--no nursing, rocking, patting, subtle games or distractions, but simply put the child down, pick up a hymnal, and do anything further?

These seem very different to me. I wonder which the OP meant?

Well for me, my youngest you could "literally have zero interaction with in public for a full 75 minutes...no nursing, rocking, patting, subtle games or distractions, but simply put the child down and pick up a book..."

She would look around or seem to zone out but would remain totally quitet. She was NOT restless.

So that's what I would mean by having a child just like this. Maybe unusual but not unheard of or anything. I have alot of friends whose third (or fourth) kid is like this.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I am curious now--were they doing *anything* to keep the babies quiet? Any patting? Snuggling? Nursing? Rocking or swaying?

When others say their children were "just like this"...what do you mean?

Do you mean that you had very mellow, quiet babies, but you were doing subtle things during events like this which your child's mellow temper accepted easily and without protest? Such as having a quiet toy you were holding, or rocking to lull them, or patting your baby's back, or a quick nursing, or very subtle interactions here and there that you offered based on cues that your child was restless? Essentially, that your babies were naturally mellow, but you were also watching their cues and meeting needs, but they were of the quiet, easy-to-comfort type of need?

That's exactly what I did. My youngest especially was very easy to comfort. He was happy to be held and nursed. Sometimes he would even sit on the floor and play with a toy for a while.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44* 
So that's what I would mean by having a child just like this. Maybe unusual but not unheard of or anything. I have alot of friends whose third (or fourth) kid is like this.

Hmm, maybe I'll be blessed with this one then. Pretty please,







:


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Wow, I'm glad I don't go to church, since I'd hate to think that people sitting around me were wondering if I spanked my child because she could sit through the service without being disruptive!!!!!

I am sure that the next time we are in public and DD is coloring or otherwise sitting quietly I will remember this thread.

Boy, you can't do anything without being judged for your parenting these days...


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Benadryl?
I'd say personality but for all 3 to be like that? Wow









My oldest loves church and is thrilled to watch "the guy in the costume" do "all the stuff." He's always loved church. My younger son would rather rock climb up the stained glass windows and swing, yodeling, from the ropes.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Wow, I'm glad I don't go to church, since I'd hate to think that people sitting around me were wondering if I spanked my child because she could sit through the service without being disruptive!!!!!

I am sure that the next time we are in public and DD is coloring or otherwise sitting quietly I will remember this thread.

Boy, you can't do anything without being judged for your parenting these days...

The general consensus seems to be that some kids are just like this. Those of us that have kids on the other end of the personality spectrum find it hard to believe, but I guess its possible. Some of us have pointed out that you don't know what's up and its best not to assume anything -- either positive or negative, because you don't know. Having heard what one family did to control their children, I learned not to covet someone else's kid's behaviour because you don't know what it took to get it.

But you are right about one thing -- it's been well documented here many many times that we are very quick to judge!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

We don't do church, but I have two who have always been able to chill for long periods of time. (We don't spank, we don't punish.) They go into their heads. They are both artistic personalities. One is a writer and one is an artist. Dh and I still remember the time we drove to FL from MA with the writer. He had just turned two years old. At one point, we just looked at him in total amzement-- we realized we had driven for 4 striaght hours and the child was perfectly content. He had not napped, even. We still chuckle about that trip. We were totally blown away.

He's 18 now, and really creative and introspective. He started out that way and he's still that way. Same for my artist. She can play with dust. It was as true at 5 months (when she could amuse herself with ceiling fans and her own hands) as it is at nearly age 15. She can go into herself, and later there are amazing drawings. Some people do that have these rich inner lives that aren't distracted by the outside world.

My other two children...not so much.







But they other gifts and strengths.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
He's 18 now, and really creative and introspective. He started out that way and he's still that way. Same for my artist. She can play with dust. It was as true at 5 months (when she could amuse herself with ceiling fans and her own hands) as it is at nearly age 15. She can go into herself, and later there are amazing drawings. Some people do that have these rich inner lives that aren't distracted by the outside world.

My other two children...not so much.







But they other gifts and strengths.










When we fly or do long distance trips, it's like I have one child. My oldest is so serene and self-entertaining. I wish I could blow a little bubble around him to protect him from his brother's poking & prodding & loving games.


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## myjulybabes (Jun 24, 2003)

Another thing is, it could just be the time of day when these kids are naturally less active and noisy. My mom and brother take my 10 mos old nephew to Sunday morning Mass with zero problems. He won't sit in a carrier the whole time, but as long as someone holds him, he's quiet and content and just checks everything out. So they thought, surely they could take him to Easter Vigil (a much longer Mass, late at night, for those who don't know). Yeahhhhhhhh...not so much. He didn't even make it halfway through. Same church, same people, same toys/bottle/etc that work at 10am were NOT gonna work at 10pm for this lil guy.

My kids have times of the day when they're naturally less active too, even now that they're older.


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## kokonutmama (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm coming in late here, but I'd like to second a couple of things that have already been said.

First of all, temperment, yes, can make a huge dif. I was one of those kids who could entertain myself forever, fell asleep unassisted, was quiet all the time... Looking back I'd call it a problem, quite frankly, but as a child I was constantly praised in comparison to my little brother who was more rambunctuous. I guess it's the feeling of being slightly crippled by my own introversion that's led me to the point of view that "rambunctuousness" should be nurtured, instead of discouraged, and therefore resturaunts, churches and the like are no place for little kids.

Building on that, the habit bit seems spot on to me, too. since I don't think little kids (particularly active, noisy ones like mine) belong in churches my ds doesn't go, except on Christmas and Easter when his granny would have an absolute cow if we didn't go. I think if we went every week, he might get the hang of the quiet thing and not constantly be asking "What's that guy doing, mommy? What's that sound mommy? Haha, I got all wet, mommy!"


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## MaryCeleste (Jun 11, 2004)

Just to add another possibility... I've heard (though I've never done it myself) that it's possible to gently "train" a baby or young toddler to sit quietly on your lap, for fairly long periods of time, if you start at a very early age. I realize that this is a loaded concept, and probably wouldn't fit with most people's concept of GD, but it's something I can imagine happening in primitive cultures (including AP ones).

Anyway, the method is basically just to sit them on your lap with your hands around their middle (with or without small toys or books), go on with what you were doing -- having an adult conversation, participating in a church service, etc. -- and ignore/calmly shush little movements and noises. In other words, unless there's an emergency of some kind, sitting in the lap is non-negotiable. If something urgent does need to be taken care of (e.g., potty), it's done without fuss, and then back to sitting in the lap again.

To me, this kind of seems like "teaching them to view mom's lap as a car seat." My little ones have almost always been very content and quiet in their car seats (or carriers, or strollers, or high chairs), even for long trips.... but they won't hold still for more than a few minutes in my lap. I can only figure that this is because, in my lap, they know there's a very strong chance they'll be played with, let down to run around, etc., whereas these sorts of things wouldn't normally happen in the car. (No, I'm not one of those mothers who pulls the car over every time the baby fusses a little.







: )

Again, there are probably some people who think this whole idea is horrendous. I guess it's a question of perspective, since most people do accept the idea of their babies and toddlers being "restrained" in vehicles, even when the trip isn't, strictly speaking, essential. For some families, communal worship is by far the most important event of their week, and -- especially if there's only one service -- it can be extremely burdensome to have one parent stay home with the small children.

As I've said, I haven't tried this myself, but I do acknowledge that it's crazy-making when our children will sit in their seats and read/play/look around quietly all the way to church -- and all the way home -- but start acting like little monkeys as soon as Mass starts. I always thought it would help if we could install our car seats in the pew. (Or maybe our Fisher-Price booster seats, to give them a better view.)


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Good grief, I can't see why gently teaching your child to sit on your lap quietly would be "horrendous" in any way. What's wrong with it?

I love sitting and reading, playing stickers, using finger puppets with DD in my lap. She gets my full attention and enjoys the close time as well.

If she gets restless I let her stand next to my seat and play. If that isn't enough freedom for her, we get up and leave.

There is nothing horrendous about this. Nothing.


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## Realrellim (Feb 1, 2006)

The stars were aligned right for that family that morning.









Seriously--there are Sundays we go to church and DD sits and colors nicely and is great. And then there are Sundays where we spend most of the service walking down the hallway so we don't disturb everyone else. On Easter she was a perfect angel--mostly just sat in DH's lap. (!) I think she was tired. But the week before, when DH was on a business trip, she couldn't sit still for anything and decided to start a tantrum when we went up to communion. Usually going up helps her settle down because she wants to kneel at the rail herself. This time, nope.

Now if I could only predict the good times and bad times....







:


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I am curious now--were they doing *anything* to keep the babies quiet? Any patting? Snuggling? Nursing? Rocking or swaying?

Sorry it took me so long to respond!

Or do you mean you could literally have zero interaction with your baby in public for a full 75 minutes--no nursing, rocking, patting, subtle games or distractions, but simply put the child down, pick up a hymnal, and do anything further?

These seem very different to me. I wonder which the OP meant?


They were doing nothing with the baby as far as I could see. He had no paci and no toys. He definitely did not get out of the carrier and he made no sounds that I heard. The dad was right in front of me and may have been smiling at him or something but I didn't see him holding any toys either.

The middle child was quiet too. Toward the very end the mom did read some books to him.

I did not hear a peep out of the older boy and I didn't see the parents reminding him to be quiet or talking to him. But he did have a children's bulletin and some toys to distract him, so I think his behavior was age-appropriate, especially if he had been to church a lot.

They were in the row right in front of us and we were out in the fellowship hall watching the service on TV because the service was so crowded. It was hard to hear the TV so I was bored, which is probably why I paid so much attention to this family


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## Realrellim (Feb 1, 2006)

I forgot to add this about our own Easter experience: not only did DD sit shockingly quietly as compared to her usual church behavior, but my 3-month-old niece, attending her first church service, was quiet too. The only time she was upset was when the trumpet was playing, and then my bil just carried her over to the door and she was fine.

That was the same niece that screamed for an hour when my sister and bil came over for dinner just a week or two earlier and who generally just prefers to be at home and protests any change of location.

*shrug*

It's all in the stars.


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## CaraNicole (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DQMama* 
On Easter Sunday dh and I sat behind a couple with whom we attended our new member class to join the church. We were both pregnant with our second during the class (our babies are 15 mo and our older kids are both about 4) and I was surprised to see that they had a 5-month-old as well. I just thought the 15 month old must be small for his age when I first saw them carrying in a baby carrier









Anyway, All. Three. Boys. sat perfectly silently throughout the 75 minute service. The five-month-old was wide awake and staring at his dad the whole time in his carrier. He never rooted or sucked on a paci or his fingers or anything. The mother held the toddler and he also just looked around the whole time but didn't wiggle or try to get down or babble or anything. She did end up reading him a couple of books toward the very end. The older boy sat and colored in the children's bulletin and played with some small toys he had brought but never got up and never said a word.

How in the world does someone get their children to act like that? Dh said, "What are we doing wrong?" I said "nothing" but I couldn't help but have just a tiny bit of self-doubt.


totally OT but momma thanks for your siggy...i never knew...wow...my ds will be rear facing till he's in his 30's...thank you so much for having those links!


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## Farore (Apr 3, 2007)

This is an interesting thread. My son is 10 months old, and loves to babble during church. I used to be afraid that it was distracting, but I've had many people comment to me after service that they love to hear babies in church.


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## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

Just another perspective ... when I was in school a teacher I had told a story that a family with 4 kids sat in front of her at church. They sat perfectly quietly, didn't fidget and followed along when appropriate. These kids were older at the time - past toddler age. My teacher was so amazed that she decided to ask the mom after the service how she accomplished this. The mother told her that she started when the kids were very young and if they moved or disrupted the service she would pinch them very hard. Thankfully, my teacher was not impressed with this method or no longer amazed by their behavior but just sad for the kids.

Maggie


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Some of it is temperament, absolutely. However, I see far more frequently that some parents are not willing to exercise reasonable respect for other people in situation such as church and in doing so, communicate to their children that they themselves do not need to exercise reasonable respect for other people.

To wit, speaking of church, we had some visitors to our service last week. They brought their adorable 9-month-old baby with them, and to her credit, she was mostly silent. However, when she began to be bored and was not so silent -- and as a matter of fact, was quite loud and visibly disruptive to others who were trying and failing to worship in silence, the mother did not do what I believe most reasonable and considerate people would, which is leave the room with her child immediately, because the child is obviously not old enough to have any idea of when it's appropriate to make noise and wouldn't, obviously, be expected to keep quiet. Instead, the mother let the child keep crying for a very long time, which in my opinion was not only rude to other people, but problematic as a course of action taken over several years: if her daughter keeps seeing that one's own disruption is something that other people are forced to tolerate, what message is this action sending to her?

I don't believe in the validity of spanking, humiliation, or any physical punishment, nor do we practice these methods as parents. However, I strongly believe in the idea of communicating the notion that disruptive or rude behavior is not socially acceptable. If that means leaving the church in mid-service, so be it. If that means leaving the restaurant in haste, throwing down enough to cover the bill and the tip, so be it. If that means not participating in an activity where you know, because of your child's inherent temperament and history, that she or he will be disruptive to others, so be it.

Over time, the child certainly does get the message that if she or he is disturbing others, the activity will _end then and there_. It tends to sink in over time and be a relatively effective internal motivator to behave appropriately according to the time, context, and place. Moreover, and there are those who may disagree, I find it a natural consequence, one that accurately reflects real-world reactions to adults who do not "behave" in public: they are asked to leave (and sometimes removed if they do not agree to moderate their behavior or leave).

Again, others may disagree. Please feel free. However, speaking only for myself (although hopefully not exclusively), I find that there is a happy medium between getting your child to behave using physical punishment and letting them do as they choose under the guise that some (OBVIOUSLY not all) people use of being gentle disciplinarians.


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