# Say no to bumbos & bjorns?



## tigress (Nov 14, 2005)

i forget where i've seen this phrase--"say no to bumbos and bjorns", but i'm wondering: for those of you who say no out there, i've read the bumbo debates, but did a search and couldn't find any bjorn debates--what is meant by bjorns? are we talking the carriers, or is it another product they make?


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## tsfairy (May 19, 2004)

I think they're referring to the carriers. Bjorn, Snugli, etc. put all the baby's weight on the crotch area, which can cause problems with the hips and spine if used frequently/long term.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tsfairy* 
I think they're referring to the carriers. Bjorn, Snugli, etc. put all the baby's weight on the crotch area, which can cause problems with the hips and spine if used frequently/long term.









:

-Angela


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## celestialdreamer (Nov 18, 2004)

I believe its under kidspiration's title, but I could be wrong. I remembered it cause I agree that they are things I have said no too also


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## aynaffitq (Jul 5, 2006)

I don't use on because I like slings way better but... are they bad for all babies or just the little ones?


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

They're bad for all babies considering they just get heavier and taller. The spine is *still* growing and developing rapidly, so I wouldn't put my baby in one.


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## lmkirche (Jun 7, 2006)

What about holding babes on the hip and supporting their crotch? Now that ds is older, and cannot decide if he prefers being held or on the floor practicing crawling and walking, I ditched the carrier around the house and just hold him.

Is that bad for him?????? He is almost 11 mo.


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

when he's on your hip, is your hip the only thing holding him up? No, usually your arm is behind their back, or for me, my arm is under dd's butt.


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lmkirche* 
What about holding babes on the hip and supporting their crotch? Now that ds is older, and cannot decide if he prefers being held or on the floor practicing crawling and walking, I ditched the carrier around the house and just hold him.

Is that bad for him?????? He is almost 11 mo.

This is a natural way to hold a baby, so I can't see it being bad.
A sling would be easy to use, if he's going in and out frequently.

Dawn


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## lmkirche (Jun 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AutumnBreeze* 
when he's on your hip, is your hip the only thing holding him up? No, usually your arm is behind their back, or for me, my arm is under dd's butt.

Yeah. . .I am trying to picture how I hold him. . .maybe I do jsut support his bum with my arm around him. . .


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *celestialdreamer* 
I believe its under kidspiration's title, but I could be wrong. I remembered it cause I agree that they are things I have said no too also









Yep, it's *Kidspiration*'s senior "title". (She's my hero.







: ) I get in trouble every time I talk about this subject, so I'll say no more.


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## JeanineTheOT (Sep 25, 2006)

Im confused. What is the difference in support between the mei tai's and the baby bjorns? Dont they both support the baby in sitting? Or am I wrong? I did receive a bjorn from my shower, but havent used it yet, but I have been thinking of getting a mei tei (sp?)


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## camomof5 (Oct 13, 2006)

What about the Ultimate baby wrap? I just tried mine today and liked it but it does have fabric that goes under the legs.

http://www.theultimatebabywrap.com/ubw-product.htm

http://www.breastmilk.com/the_ultima...ap_carrier.htm


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeanineTheOT* 
Im confused. What is the difference in support between the mei tai's and the baby bjorns? Dont they both support the baby in sitting? Or am I wrong? I did receive a bjorn from my shower, but havent used it yet, but I have been thinking of getting a mei tei (sp?)

The mei tai has a wider base for the baby to sit in. It's more like a seat. Also, and someone on here probably has more specific knowledge, it is more natural for a baby to sit with their legs spread apart and their hips turned out. Think about how a newborn sleeps (legs in the "butterfly" position with legs turned out and knees almost touching the mattress) or how an older infant sits (again, legs turned out, knees spread).

I have a Babyhawk mei tai and love it. I had a hard time using it when dd was smaller but I got it back out at around 9 months and now she loves it--front, side, and back.


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Edited because I asked what is wrong w/ Bumbos. I read the other thread and saw the opinions shared, and now I know how everyone feels! No need to answer my question


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## calicocj (Oct 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeanineTheOT* 
Im confused. What is the difference in support between the mei tai's and the baby bjorns? Dont they both support the baby in sitting? Or am I wrong? I did receive a bjorn from my shower, but havent used it yet, but I have been thinking of getting a mei tei (sp?)

I think that the MTs have a wider 'base' (of fabric under the butt) that positions the baby so that their hips are more open and legs are more spread out, like a more natural position (I hope that makes sense). But the bjorn only has a base of fabric that is like 4 inches wide in the crotch, so that the baby is positioned where the legs just dangle down, not naturally. I think that puts pressure on the hips and spine.


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## JeanineTheOT (Sep 25, 2006)

Gotcha!! Thanks!


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## mama_at_home (Apr 27, 2004)

In a MT the baby is seated (usually with bottom a bit lower than legs) and resting against mom or dad. In Bjorns and Snugglie's they are dangling and all their weight is going on their crotch.


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## Mrs.PhD (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DQMama* 
Meant to ask--what is technically wrong with bumbos? I never got one because I thought it was a waste of money, and I thought it was unnatural for 3-month-olds to be sitting up unless in mom's lap. Is there something else?

My thoughts too. When I needed my baby to sit with out me she reclined in a "bouncy seat" for lack of a beter word. This helped with not as much spit up after feedings.

Bumbos were rather new when my youngest was a baby.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Ack, try searchng for the most recent looooong thread on bumbo's. You will find people will say they arrange baby's legs and hips in a bad way. One of those "developed for premies and then mass marketed" products...


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## Mrs.PhD (Aug 6, 2006)

I found it. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=bumbo

if anyone else is intrested.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gemelos* 
In a MT the baby is seated (usually with bottom a bit lower than legs)

The same is true for bumbos, so why is a MT ok and bumbo isn't?


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## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camomof5* 
What about the Ultimate baby wrap? I just tried mine today and liked it but it does have fabric that goes under the legs.

http://www.theultimatebabywrap.com/ubw-product.htm

http://www.breastmilk.com/the_ultima...ap_carrier.htm

Wraps need to be used the right way and that means that the material doesn't bunch up in the crotch area but supports the whole bum and upper thighs.... It is hard to use a wrap the right way in the facing out position... but this is one of the reasons that the facing out position isn't optimal...
I can't find the link right now about the other worries about the sumo carry but maybe someone else here can....


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## grumpyshoegirl (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeanineTheOT* 
Im confused. What is the difference in support between the mei tai's and the baby bjorns? Dont they both support the baby in sitting? Or am I wrong? I did receive a bjorn from my shower, but havent used it yet, but I have been thinking of getting a mei tei (sp?)

In general, IME, the baby faces you in the Mei Tai, so his hips are "raised" a little. I don't know how to explain it any better than that but in seeing babies in both and doing reading on the subject, something about having the baby facing you while being carried is a big plus in their spine/hip developement, something about the angle of the legs in that position. For some reason the Germans in particular seem obsessed with making sure babies' legs are in this correct position while being carried or worn.

Babies in Bjorns, on the other hand, always look so awkward and wrong. Their legs just hang there.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Ooops.. I responded instead of starting a new thread.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Is there any actual research to support the concerns about baby hips and spines, or is it all hypothesis?


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## tigress (Nov 14, 2005)

so, since it is the baby bjorn _style_ carriers we are talking about saying no to (if i understand correctly), i am wondering this: does anyone know of a carrier that is good for both mom and baby's back? i like my sling for short periods, but find my neck and back begin to protest and use the first journey for walks (or in the case of the poopoo lake in my sling), or when i need to feel he is more secure in there. combining my sling use with bfing, wonder if i am going to come out of this being able to stand up straight, or even walk??? i also wonder about the facing in thing, because ds says a lot more than "no" if i try to put him facing in anymore








! any knowledge, info, or experience on carriers for baby _&_ mom's spinal health?


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

That is when I use my Mei-Tei. I can either put her on my back or my chest. I see that your ds is almost 4 months old,

nak now

check out the tp or www.babywearer.com


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## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigress* 
so, since it is the baby bjorn _style_ carriers we are talking about saying no to (if i understand correctly), i am wondering this: does anyone know of a carrier that is good for both mom and baby's back? i like my sling for short periods, but find my neck and back begin to protest and use the first journey for walks (or in the case of the poopoo lake in my sling), or when i need to feel he is more secure in there. combining my sling use with bfing, wonder if i am going to come out of this being able to stand up straight, or even walk??? i also wonder about the facing in thing, because ds says a lot more than "no" if i try to put him facing in anymore







! any knowledge, info, or experience on carriers for baby _&_ mom's spinal health?

Personally, I think the best is a wrap..... it supports and hugs the baby everywhere and the weight is distribted over the whole back or front (depending of course of the hold that you use)

The two main holds I use are wrap cross carries (back and front) I can have ds on my back for hours without hurting (with the material spead across my chest) and because they are held so close and the center of gravity is pretty much the same the weight just almost dissapears...


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## tigress (Nov 14, 2005)

oh no!! i've been wondering for months what 'nak' means--i know it's ot, but i don't know what 'nak now' means...please explain


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## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

nak (nursing at keyboard)


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

I love my Babyhawk Mei Tai. They can face in, sit on your hip, or ride on your back. Dd is 16 lbs and I walk 3-4 miles with her in it (briskly) and my back, shoulders, and neck never hurt. It is kind of a pain to put on but if you get it tight enough it really distributes the weight evenly. I know people who can BF in them but I haven't tried it.

The Bjorn hurts really bad after walking about a mile. I had one w/ ds and I never realized how uncomfortable it was until I tried the Mei Tai.


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## ~*~MamaJava~*~ (Mar 7, 2004)

nak = nursing at keyboard
nak now = nursing at keyboard now







would be my guess!

What's the issue with bumbos? Making baby sit before they're developmentally ready?


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## ~pi (May 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigress* 
i am wondering this: does anyone know of a carrier that is good for both mom and baby's back?

Have you tried an Ergo?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tigress* 
oh no!! i've been wondering for months what 'nak' means--i know it's ot, but i don't know what 'nak now' means...please explain









nak = nursing at keyboard (which usually means no caps, more typos, etc.)


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## anyuka (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paxye* 
nak (nursing at keyboard)

















Now I get it!! I've always wondered what that meant too!! Well then I nak all the time!!


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## Maxine45 (Oct 29, 2005)

since we're talking about frequently seen acronyms, can someone tell me what ETA means?


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## MsGrizzle (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:

), i am wondering this: does anyone know of a carrier that is good for both mom and baby's back? i like my sling for short periods, but find my neck and back begin to protest and use the first journey for walks (or in the case of the poopoo lake in my sling), or when i need to feel he is more secure in ther
I have never been able to get a handle on the sling - and my babe hates them. I find them uncomfortable. Might be my body type. I always liked my Bjorn







: but I know they are bad - I just like that style. So for that reason I got an Ergo. i've had it 3 weeks now. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is so comfy and fits me perfectly. I have worn it for hours without any issue at all. I have only done the front carry - no hip or back yet. Looking forward to trying them though!

ETA = Edited to add


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## Maxine45 (Oct 29, 2005)

Thanks!

My cousin gave us her used Bjorn and I use it sometimes when I'm shopping, it's faster than the Moby Wrap but it feels about 100 times less comfortable. It's really worth the time to set up the Moby.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I've heard all this before, and as a dedicated bjorn user whose kids are now 3 and 6, (with no hip/leg problems whatsoever), I really have to say: I think that you'd have to be carrying your kid around for some humongous amount of time for any sort of damage to occur. That is, if this is even true.

The bjorn was the only carrier (beside the Tough Traveler backpack) that really felt comfy for me. And easy and speedy to put on! Didn't work for my husband, so I certainly understand that it's not best for everyone. But I would never rule it out or tell someone not to try it because of - to my knowledge, anyway, and I may be wrong - unsubstantiated rumors.

Also, not that this pertains to this thread in particular...but has anyone noticed that crunchy mamas seem down on the bjorn in general? (And not for this reason). That there seems to be this attitude that "mainstream" people use that yuppie, trendy bjorn, so we can't possibly approve of it? Not when we can use a sling made from Guatemalan fabric!

I don't know. That's the vibe I get.


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I've heard all this before, and as a dedicated bjorn user whose kids are now 3 and 6, (with no hip/leg problems whatsoever), I really have to say: I think that you'd have to be carrying your kid around for some humongous amount of time for any sort of damage to occur. That is, if this is even true.

The bjorn was the only carrier (beside the Tough Traveler backpack) that really felt comfy for me. And easy and speedy to put on! Didn't work for my husband, so I certainly understand that it's not best for everyone. But I would never rule it out or tell someone not to try it because of - to my knowledge, anyway, and I may be wrong - unsubstantiated rumors.

Also, not that this pertains to this thread in particular...but has anyone noticed that crunchy mamas seem down on the bjorn in general? (And not for this reason). That there seems to be this attitude that "mainstream" people use that yuppie, trendy bjorn, so we can't possibly approve of it? Not when we can use a sling made from Guatemalan fabric!

I don't know. That's the vibe I get.


Just FYI, most mama's here DO wear their babies for most of the day. From about 2 weeks-8 months I was wearing my dd for at lest 5 hours a day. So yes, in that instance, I think a Bjiorn would be very harmful to my childs rapidly growing spine, hips and ligaments.

I would suggest you check out some of the information in the babywearing forum









Edited to add:

For what it's worth, I, a lower-middle class, crunchy mama, bought my husband a Baby Bjiorn during the 6th month of my pregnancy. I had already orderd and recieved my sling. Then after reading a bit of the research on it all, decided not to let him use the Bjiorn until a certian age, and by then, she hated it.

Mei Tei's are a slightly similar carrier, and it's actually easier to get the baby in and out of it.


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## musemor (Mar 19, 2004)

I don't think Bjorns are healthful for babies' hips, but I doubt that many Bjorn-users wear their babies enough to cause problems. Why? Because front carriers are really hard on your back once a baby gets to be a certain size! That's really my biggest problem with Bjorns...in addition to being somewhat uncomfortable for babies (imagine being dangled by your crotch and bounced up and down!) they aren't versatile compared to other types of carriers. I want to be able to carry my baby on my back or hip (and be able to nurse in the carrier).

I don't really have a problem with Bumbos. Obviously, they shouldn't be used as a babysitter, but my daughter really liked hers. We used it for situations when I needed both hands (say, for cooking) but she was too young to ride on my back (I should have had a wrap! Then it wouldn't have been an issue). At around two months, she INSISTED on being upright at all times, so the Bumbo was a great tool. She could be happy, near me, and safe from boiling water and sharp knives. By six months she was too strong for it and could pop herself out of the seat, so it got passed along.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

But seriously, is there ANY research to support the claims that these carriers/seats cause orthopedic problems? I've searched and been unable to turn anything up, besides one non-scholarly article on the continuum concept site. I looked at the journal articles referenced there, but they seemed to suggest that spondyloisthesis is probably congenital and secondary to walking when it occurs in children.
I do think the prevalence of objections has something to do with the mainstreamness of them. I'm happy that parents are carrying their babies. I've not had a bjorn, wouldn't have fit my babies past a couple months from the looks of them. Love my Ergo, love my Ellaroo. But I am really skeptical of the claims that millions of parents are damaging their children's spines and hips, without some evidence to support this.


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## musemor (Mar 19, 2004)

I haven't found any scientific studies, either. The closest to a medical opinion is a Dr. Feder article.

The Ergo site references a Dr. Hull, saying that "the best hip and hip joint position is with the knees up and away from the centerline, also called the frog leg position," but I can't find any of his journal articles/published papers online.

I probably would have gotten a Bjorn (in addition to other carriers, not instead of) if I felt like they were healthy for J's hips and my back...I think J would have liked to be outward-facing. We did outward facing in a pouch sling instead, but it didn't feel quite as secure (I couldn't bend over with her in it, for example).


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

The way that I understood it was, the bebe's knees are supposed to be higher than their hips ( like in a MT) rather than lower (like in a snugli)


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AutumnBreeze* 
Just FYI, most mama's here DO wear their babies for most of the day. From about 2 weeks-8 months I was wearing my dd for at lest 5 hours a day. So yes, in that instance, I think a Bjiorn would be very harmful to my childs rapidly growing spine, hips and ligaments.

Just FYI, I _did_ wear my babies for most of the day. In a bjorn. They were both pretty small, so it wasn't hard on my back at all. And like I said, they were happy in there, and they are happily running around now.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paxye* 

The two main holds I use are wrap cross carries (back and front) I can have ds on my back for hours without hurting (with the material spead across my chest) and because they are held so close and the center of gravity is pretty much the same the weight just almost dissapears...

Do you have a link on how to do a back cross wrap? I have a Moby and I think it's just too stretchy, because it NEVER feels secure on my back. I end up using the MT on my back but the straps aren't as comfortable as the Moby could be.

I need some good direction on how to do it!!

TIA!


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## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Do you have a link on how to do a back cross wrap? I have a Moby and I think it's just too stretchy, because it NEVER feels secure on my back. I end up using the MT on my back but the straps aren't as comfortable as the Moby could be.

I need some good direction on how to do it!!

This is the way that I do it....

http://www.mamatoto.org/videos/bwwnochestbelt.MPG
http://www.kantoliinakanava.fi/sidon...kietaisuxreppu

with a stretchy wrap like the moby (I have a cuddly and a Maman Kangourou) you have do it tighter then you would think to get it to feel really secure... (unlike a woven that doesn't have much stretch to it)
Make sure that the fabric (the middle of the wrap) is really high on the back and when you are doing to the cross make sure that the fabric is high on the babe's back also... that will make it feel a lot more secure since babe can't try to lean back as much...

It does take a while to get to get the hang of it but once you do it is really easy and it doesn't take long to get into... it is SO comfy!!


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

My oldest was in the BJORN all the time. He is perfectly healthy, legs & hips are great. I think it's a shame that people are trying to give the Bjorn a bad name. At least some mainstreamers are carrying their babies, can't we just be happy with that and not launch a crusade, further alienating them from AP??


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
My oldest was in the BJORN all the time. He is perfectly healthy, legs & hips are great. I think it's a shame that people are trying to give the Bjorn a bad name. At least some mainstreamers are carrying their babies, can't we just be happy with that and not launch a crusade, further alienating them from AP??

I'm glad your son has a strong body







But knowing what you know now, will you be slinging your next babe, or using the Bjiorn again?

Not all AP parents are on a crusade against mainstream practices.

"When you know better you do better" is seen around here often. And from a parent who did not know any better with her first, I like very much to stick up for all the "better" crunchy things I do for my family.


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## KBug (Sep 8, 2006)

Gotta say, I love my bjorn too. I have a sling as well. DS did not like being constricted in the sling when he was too small for the hip carry. I have the bjorn with extra lumbar support and it works well for several hours at a time. DS loves to switch between facing out and in depending on mood/tiredness and it's so easy to do a quick switch. The sling he tolerates for awhile, but he's not nearly as happy as he is in the bjorn. I have to agree that we should just be happy that people are wearing their babies instead of leaving them in car seats and strollers. Besides, computers and the internet are SO mainstream.


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

Here is some information, and then I suggest looking in the babywearing forum for even more information.

Continum Concept on Babywearing

this is just a review, but it speaks volumes. If it's uncomfortable for this mother, then how comfortable is the baby?

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Baby_Bjorn_Bab...Review_5528777

ICPA Article about Baby Wearing

Some other good general information

http://www.midasword.com.au/mwconten...27&pageid=2275


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Mamas, since this thread mostly centers around babywearing and many people are looking for some facts, I'm going to pop this over to our babywearing forum. Hold on tight, cause here you go!


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Not so much interested in 'information' as in the personal opinions of mothers or chiropractors, but actual medical research showing that these problems actually happen due to carrier/seat use?
Most if not all of those articles just quote the same (nonscholarly) essay from the continuum concept site by way of documentation.


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## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

Cassidy, if that is what you are looking for I suggest you check out the ICPA link I posted above. Also, there are a few mama's here who are either married to or are chiro's themselves. If you do a search for them I'm sure if you PM them they would be MORE than happy to address your questions with the medical research you are seaking.

I only wish I could have helped you more.


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## littleteapot (Sep 18, 2003)

I have seen actual research regarding spine development and crotch carriers but it was long ago and I don't remember where... it was a referenced article. I know I saw it online. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I do know it's out there somewhere.


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

I don't see bjorn type carriers as not 'crunchy' enough. It has nothing to do with an AP style for me.

Even without the articles I've read, I still would not wear a baby in them. The crotch is not a weight bearing area of the human body, it was never intended to be. The buttocks are. If we were meant to sit on our crotch then our legs would not be at the angle they are. Knowing that and that babies bodies are growing and fragile in so many ways, and that there are so many carriers out there that are more ergonomially correct (not mention easier to nurse in), I choose not to use them.


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## aja-belly (Oct 7, 2004)

i stopped using my bjorn because the straps caused clogged ducts for me. not fun. my son loved the ff carries, but spit up in the kangaroo carry in a sling or pouch.







we did a wrap with him ff alot, but honestly in the texas heat i did the stroller alot.

however, dd does not mind facing in, so we do that with her.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

As much as I ADORE wearing my baby in a beautiful, comfy and super healthy (for him) carrier, the way I see it, as long as the parent is holding the baby close to her/him, that's what matters









I'd much rather see a baby happy in a Bjorn than screaming his little lungs out in a car seat









DD and I saw two babies crying desperatly for the moms in car seats the other day while the moms just kept on shopping and tried to ignore the cries! It broke DD's heart!!









I used a Bjorn briefly with my first two children (I did not know there were other options). I had to stop using it after just 7 - 8 weeks because it was killing my back, but it did help me appreciate how wonderful it was to hold the baby close at all time and still keep my hands free









I have introduced Bjorn-parents to MTs and wraps though. I made sure to explain why they are not the best option for the little one, but the fact that MTs and wraps are soooo much prettier also helped







They were really thankful!


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
Not so much interested in 'information' as in the personal opinions of mothers or chiropractors, but actual medical research showing that these problems actually happen due to carrier/seat use?
Most if not all of those articles just quote the same (nonscholarly) essay from the continuum concept site by way of documentation.

what about good old common sense? why can't a mother like me, who's studied anatomy and physiology and human development, look at a certain device, observe a child's alignment and determine from knowledge and experience whether it is appropriate or not? too bad but i doubt that anybody is going to get the funding to do a long term study on the physiological/orthopedic effects of certain devices.

anyways, i'd like to put the burden of proof back on the original designers and companies that are making $$ off of these things. i'd LOVE to see a study that compares adults that were worn in bjorns vs. not...and take a look down the line in 10-20-30-40-50 years of how many end up with issues such as chronic low back pain, spondylolisthesis, scoliosis, djd, hip surgeries or arthroplasties.

in the meantime and until those studies are done (good luck with that














...if there's even a QUESTION whether something might be safe or have long term effects, my advice is to stay away or find an alternative. better to err on the side of caution is my motto.

my other motto is...THE CROTCH IS NOT A WEIGHT BEARING AREA OF THE BODY.









and







...my senior title is working!!


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
what about good old common sense? why can't a mother like me, who's studied anatomy and physiology and human development, look at a certain device, observe a child's alignment and determine from knowledge and experience whether it is appropriate or not? too bad but i doubt that anybody is going to get the funding to do a long term study on the physiological/orthopedic effects of certain devices.

Interesting, so there is none?
You can make whatever decisions you feel are appropriate for your children, of course. No problem with it. I'm not a bjorn user myself, as I said. They don't look very comfy to me, either.

I do have something of a problem with authoritatively stating that something causes physical medical problems (and by extension that people are damaging their children) with no physical medical evidence to support the claim. Lots of things are 'common sense' that aren't actually true. I recall hearing that at one time it was common sense that traveling at the totally unnatural speed of 40mph would cause humans' blood to boil.


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## mother culture (Oct 19, 2004)

I think for tiny babies doing some Bjorn time is better that car seat time and I hate to see little babies in an ergo, they really have to spread their legs. I think a Bjorn is fine, at least they can comfortably sit in it without having to spread so wide. In my experience 5 mos is about max for the bjorn. I am not sure what a Bumbo is.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

I feel like i need to weigh in here with my experiences. I used lots of different carriers from day 1. I had the Maya Wrap, which was great but I never got the hang of using it with a newborn, I felt much more comfortable with the Bjorn at that stage. The babe was pulled nice and tight next to me, I felt that very little weight was put on babes crotch. I think my babes maxed out with the Bjorn around 4-6 months or so. It was really handy! My DD loved her backpack. She was in that thing for 4-5 hours a day. She had a great time. When they got to be 6 months the Maya wrap made so much more sense. I used it as a kangaroo carry, hip carry, back carry, shoulder carry...I loved it!

I think that if we use moderation with any device we use, whether it be a wrap, Bjorn, etc., everything will turn out just fine. Using any device too much, no matter how wonderful, is not healthy for any body or baby. Moderation is the key.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

The Snugli/Bjorns are really great for reflux babies. I know they are not ideal carriers, but refluxers cannot be held in a cradle position and they can't be tummy to tummy with the sling pressing them into mom, either. The Snugli/Bjorns don't put that same pressure on the baby's tummy.

That being said, you all know slings are the best.







And really, I am so happy to see moms with their babies in Bjorns vs. the stroller travel systems. A lot of those moms don't know about slings at all.


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
and







...my senior title is working!!









Can you change it to "Say no to Bumbos, Bjorns, buckets, bouncers, and buggies?"







Or maybe we can do a thread with that title?

(I do own a bouncer and stroller, I just thought the alliteration was funny







.)


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## Mrs.PhD (Aug 6, 2006)

I just thought of one important thing I liked about my Bjorn. My DH liked it. He would wear her in it all the time, especially when we were out for the day. We tended to take both the stroller and the carrier with us.

My best friends DH was the same way too. Men can be intimidated by alternative carriers. DH did like the hip carrier at all, that is what I used. Both men were good the Bjorn, in fact they loved it.

What do people mean by buckets? Car seat carriers?

I agree with 2crazykids, moderation is the key and listen to you child.







(and your own body too.)


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs.PhD* 
Men can be intimidated by alternative carriers. DH did like the hip carrier at all, that is what I used. Both men were good the Bjorn, in fact they loved it.

What do people mean by buckets? Car seat carriers?


My dh is definitely intimidated by anything he considers to look even slightly "crunchy," like my Mei Tai or sling. So he will also only use the Bjorn. He used it w/ ds, but we haven't used it w/ dd, for the reasons listed above, plus it's just not as comfy as my other carriers.

Yeah, bucket is the term sometimes used on here for car seat carriers. I had one until dd outgrew it. Again, something else to be used in moderation IMO.


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## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs.PhD* 
I just thought of one important thing I liked about my Bjorn. My DH liked it.

OMG! So true!

My DH did not even have to be asked to wear our first two children when all I knew was the Bjorn. He has never wanted to wear any of the nice carriers I have now though







Maybe if I had an Ergo??


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paxye* 
This is the way that I do it....

http://www.mamatoto.org/videos/bwwnochestbelt.MPG
http://www.kantoliinakanava.fi/sidon...kietaisuxreppu

with a stretchy wrap like the moby (I have a cuddly and a Maman Kangourou) you have do it tighter then you would think to get it to feel really secure... (unlike a woven that doesn't have much stretch to it)
Make sure that the fabric (the middle of the wrap) is really high on the back and when you are doing to the cross make sure that the fabric is high on the babe's back also... that will make it feel a lot more secure since babe can't try to lean back as much...

It does take a while to get to get the hang of it but once you do it is really easy and it doesn't take long to get into... it is SO comfy!!

Now I remember why I had such a hard time with this carry. Me have ginormous boobies.







They either get squished (not good for the milkies) or they stick out (not good for out in public).

It certainly is more comfortable - she's on my back now - but it's gunna be a "'round the house" thing.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

when it's all said and done, everyone does their own risk-benefit analysis and figures out for themselves whether a certain device is safe and appropriate for their own use. my contention is that bumbos should not be an item on every baby's registry and certainly shouldn't be as popular as they seem to be getting. of course there are situations where it is appropriate to use them. but imho it shouldn't be as common as it is.

same thing with the bjorn. with my professional background as well as my addiction to babycarriers







:, i would never put my own children in a bjorn as i feel as if there are better, more comfortable (for both mama and baby) and certainly more beautiful baby wearing options out there. if you have a baby with reflux and have no other options...by all means use the bjorn of course!! and if you have a dh that wouldn't be caught dead using a maya wrap or meitai, then the bjorn might be an option. i'm lucky that i have a 'reversible' meitai so that when i wear it, i can do so with the pretty embroidery facing out, but when dh wears it, he can put the plain black side facing out. that's the only sling he'll wear, though...he won't come near my blue silk zolowear ring sling







. point is there are better options that don't put nearly as much stress on the baby's developing spine and don't put any pressure through the crotch area at all.

anyways...

dqmama-


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
Not so much interested in 'information' as in the personal opinions of mothers or chiropractors, but actual medical research showing that these problems actually happen due to carrier/seat use?
Most if not all of those articles just quote the same (nonscholarly) essay from the continuum concept site by way of documentation.

This is often referenced:
http://www.storchenwiege.com/babycarrierresearch.htm

And here's the explanation I've seen on thebabywearer.com:

"This is the basic argument:
1. Certain Eskimo and Athabascan populations use babycarriers that resemble the Baby Bjorn for carrying their babies
2. The adult populations of these groups have a high incidence of spondylolisthesis, a spinal problem that can be quite painful.
3. Researchers who have analysed these cases believe the causes are most likely a mixture of the genetic and the environmental.
4. Casses believes that the position in which a baby is held in a Baby Bjorn style carrier is not developmentally sound.
5. Therefore she surmises that the cause of the spondylolisthesis in these populations is most likely environmental and specifically, due to the use of these babycarriers."

But, I don't have a link to the research on Inuit populations. Someone at thebabywearer.com must have it. This is a topic that's discussed quite a bit over there. That is the only population-based study I've ever seen. Obviously, more research needs to be done, and all we can do is use what information we have for now to make what we feel is the best decision for our kiddos.


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