# Boys asking dd out



## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

I am somewhat worried that dd11 is hurting boys' feelings. Over the course of the past year, she's had three boys who are interested in her and two of them have asked her to "go out" with them. One, in particular, apparently gave her a flower and tried to give her an inexpensive necklace, which she refused. She told him that she'd need to "ask her mother."

I don't know if she is just not interested in boys yet or just not interested in the ones who like her. I also don't need to have her "going out" with boys yet if she doesn't want to. I don't want her to hurt their feelings, however.

Two of these boys were at least a year or so older than dd b/c she is young for grade due to a fall bd and a grade skip. She'll be an 8th grader in the fall and will turn 12 a few weeks after school starts. The age difference may be making a difference here b/c the boys are at a different place in terms of their interest. However, I do know other kids who are a grade below her who are "going out" with boys which seems to entail saying that said person is your boyfriend/girlfriend and not much else.

What can I tell her to say to these boys that is likely to leave them not hurt but doesn't force her to "date" someone she doesn't want to?


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

She could always blame you. "My mother won't let me go out until high school."


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

I guess that my worry with that type of a response is that, if she does meet someone she wants to "go out" with, she will look like a liar or that the message will have gotten around that she is unavailable across the board. That does seem to be the approach she's going with for now, though







!


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## rhiOrion (Feb 17, 2009)

Crashing in here...

As a teenager I "went out" with anyone and everyone. Of course, that meant holding hands and maybe kissing at the skating rink.

But as an adult I was picky. I knew right away who I was and was not interested in, and I didn't bother going out with those who didn't interest me. As an adult there have been three guys who interested me. I went out with all three of them (not at the same time). I married one of them.

I just didn't bother with the rest. I tried to gently tell them no, but some guys just don't get the hint!

Anyhow, maybe your DD has already learned what it took me so long to learn- sometimes you just know when a person is someone you want, and sometimes you know when they're not.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

From a male perspective. I don't think you really have to worry too much about her responses hurting the boys feelings. True, it doesn't feel good to be shot down, but her saying she has to ask her mom is not going to be anymore hurtful than just a "no". And honestly, some guys need a good ol' fashioned "ew, not if you were the last man on earth and we had to choose between re population and letting human kind die out!"

On the other hand if she is just not interested in boys at the moment, she could also tell them that she is simply not interested in dating right now. DD did that last year and the boy took it really well. Or at least he stopped doing weird things to get her attention.


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

there is nothing in your description that would lead me to believe she is being unnecessarily rude or cruel. obviously, if you think she is saying or doing cruel things, you should talk to her about that. but not wanting to go out with someone, how is it not ok for her to say no, even if it hurts their feelings?

i'd be really annoyed if my mom suggested i go out with someone just "to be nice" or suggested i need to put someone else's feelings before my own when it came to romantic attachments. i think it's great that she knows what she wants and isn't conforming to peer pressure. at most, i would have a talk with her about how to be assertive yet gracious, which is a very VERY important life skill, especially for a girl. far too often, girls are brought up to be unfailingly polite and "nice" and it certainly doesn't do them any favours when not everyone they are going to come in contact with in their lives is going to respectful and "nice" themselves.

anyway, i would be very careful in how i addressed this with a girl this age. she is obviously not interested in romantic attachments yet, but she will be eventually, and her self esteem and feelings of self worth are still very much developing and changing. anything that makes her think her mom thinks she's weird for not going out with boys could be quite damaging. really though, why do you need to say anything (aside from addressing outright rudeness and cruelty)?


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

DD 14 y.o. just came home from school very relieved after a good talk with a boy in her grade. Last week he asked her if she wanted to see a movie. She wasn't sure if it was a date. We talked about it. She likes him as a friend. She doesn't think she is ready for a romantic relationship (she did "go out" with a boy when she was 12, which basically meant they sat together at lunch and breaks and on field trips, and she's had crushes before).

So today she talked to him and told him she'd like to see a movie together, but just as friends. She said she wasn't ready for anything more romantic or serious. He felt the same way. They laughed a little about their classmates' attitudes and crazy behaviour.

So far, honesty (with sympathy and good humour) has been the best policy. I think she handled the whole thing well.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm not the mother of a teenager, but as a woman who was once a teen, I think it was be a very bad idea to give her the idea that she needed to be "nicer" about letting a boy down.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do not support girls making sport of boys. There is no need to crush anyone for fun. I didn't read a single thing in your description that was cruel or unusual. All she did was decline the date. If you think about it, the implication there is - whether you meant this or not - that merely turning a boy down is not nice, and she should be going out with them. This is a bad idea.

Like MusicianDad said, boys don't enjoy getting turned down but they do deal with it. It's kind of part of being a boy, I'd even venture to say. Interestingly, I've heard from more than one male that the hardest part of this interaction is mixed messages from the girl. A boy who has been told clearly but without humiliation "no" can understand it and move on. What drives them crazy is when a girl is all wishy-washy - "nice." She'll try hard to let him down easy but he's trying to figure out what the hell she's really saying. She'll say stuff like "oh, I do like being friends with you" and the boy is going "ok, I guess that means I've got the green light." And it drags out and nobody is happy.

So that sucks for the boy, but unfortunately there's a worse possibility: that a girl who is taught to be "nice" will be taken advantage of by a boy. I'd venture to say that's so common it's happened to nearly all of us to some degree or another.

It's terrific that your daughter is not fazed by this pressure, and that she's able to clearly and reasonably express her position. There is no need for her to go out with any boys she doesn't actively want to. There is no need for her to worry about letting them down easy either; as long as she's clear and direct and not playing games with them, everyone will be the better for it.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverFish* 
there is nothing in your description that would lead me to believe she is being unnecessarily rude or cruel. obviously, if you think she is saying or doing cruel things, you should talk to her about that. but not wanting to go out with someone, how is it not ok for her to say no, even if it hurts their feelings? ?

This is what struck me about your post, too. I'm curious where you get the idea that she's refusing in a way that's designed to be hurtful.

I can well imagine that a boy who musters up the nerve to ask a girl out will be hurt if she says no. But that's just part of life. It's something for _him_ to deal with. If your daughter is saying "No, thanks," what's the problem?

She's declined to go out with three boys. It sounds like she knows what she wants and it's either not to date now (I'd be thrilled with that, as the mother of 12yo) or not to go out with these particular guys.

In your shoes, OP, the only thing I'd have to say would be to commend your daughter for following her instincts and not giving in to peer pressure (which I imagine there must be plenty of).


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I think you need to reinforce to her it is ok to say NO.

I do have to question why you think her saying NO is hurting the boys feelings? If she is being mean to them then yes you have to teach manners other than that saying NO is ok.

My son is 15 years old. There are many kids in his group that are simply not interested in dating. The same with my 12 year old daughter.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

I absolutely don't think that she is intentionally hurting anyone's feelings. I am more concerned that she is giving them indirect answers like, "I have to check with my mom," which isn't actually "no" and may leave him still hoping. She is then never getting back to the boys, which seems unfair.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
I absolutely don't think that she is intentionally hurting anyone's feelings. I am more concerned that she is giving them indirect answers like, "I have to check with my mom," which isn't actually "no" and may leave him still hoping. She is then never getting back to the boys, which seems unfair.

Oh, well that clarifies things. Yes, in this case you need to tell her that it is absolutely ok - and in fact, imperative, if she doesn't want to - to say NO.

Also tell her that if a boy pesters her for a reason, the response is "I don't need to give you a reason." Because she absolutely doesn't.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm also struck by the fact that even though your dd and the boys are in the same grade they are a year or more older than she is. I personally think that if it were me, I'd feel quite strongly about supporting my dd in her feelings and actions. The age difference is not insignificant in my mind, although I understand that's my own perspective.

Your dd sounds like a young woman who knows her mind. Her responses seem not only developmentally appropriate, but on par with most of the 11 y/o girls I know, including my own! I always, always, tell my dd that she can use me as an excuse for any situation in which she needs an out, feels pressured, unsafe or uncomfortable.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Do you really want to teach your daughter, on the cusp of womanhood, that she should be _more_ worried about hurting a boy's feelings by turning him down than about listening to her own heart and gut?

That's the kind of internal rules that lead women to ignore their gut instincts about dangerous situations and get them assaulted.

If you're worried about the way she's doing it, then I'd *maybe* talk to her about how she's doing it (ie, no laughing or mocking). But girls have no obligation to "let them down easy" or come up with fake excuses. "That's sweet of you, but I'm really not interested in you that way," or "No thank you, I don't want to go on a date" are perfectly acceptable answers to "wanna go out?"


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

I'm wondering if "I have to ask my mother" is your daughter's way of saying to these boys, "I am uncomfortable with this type of attention and I don't feel old enough/mature enough to navigate these waters alone."

If you'd rather she said something else, I think encouraging her to say, "No, I don't have time," or just, "No, thanks," is plenty for this age.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Honestly, I'd be far more worried about these boys who seem to be so intent on pursuing a romantic relationship with a child.

Eleven is a child. There is absolutely no reason for an eleven year old to be going out with anyone. Boys and girls can be friends without "going out". When my daughter was that age, she had plenty of friends, but no "dates".


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Do you really want to teach your daughter, on the cusp of womanhood, that she should be _more_ worried about hurting a boy's feelings by turning him down than about listening to her own heart and gut?

I never suggested that she should go out with boys she doesn't want to go out with nor did I ever say that I want her to be more concerned with the boys' feelings than I do her own desires. What I _do_ want her to do is say "no," when she wants to _and_ find a way say it that is not nebulous, leaving the boy hopeful, or embarrassing to the boy. One of these boys apparently asked her to "go out" with him in front of the entire drama class. That is a hard one to respond to in a way that doesn't leave either one of them embarrassed.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Honestly, I'd be far more worried about these boys who seem to be so intent on pursuing a romantic relationship with a child.

These boys range in age from 11 to 13, so they are basically children too.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
These boys range in age from 11 to 13, so they are basically children too.


Then none of them need to be "dating".


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *churndash* 
Then none of them need to be "dating".

Probably not, but the reality is that having a "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" is fairly ubiquitous in our middle schools starting in 6th grade. Like I said earlier, I don't think that it entails much more than just saying that someone is your girlfriend around school and maybe going to school dances together.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think that whatever way she chooses to say no, that she is comfortable saying no, is fine, assuming she's not being cruel (as in, not saying something like "Are you kidding me? You are so gross! I would never go out with a stupid, ugly boy like you!"). I would just have a conversation with her to let her know that if the attention makes her uncomfortable, that she really should give a direct, polite (assuming the boy was polite in the first place) "No, thank you." Otherwise, as you said, the boy could decide to ask again and again, thinking she's really just making up her mind. However, I think even at 11-13, most boys would be able to understand a subtle deflection. In any case, I don't think there's a way to not hurt someone's feelings if they are expressing romantic interest and you don't share those feelings. There's going to be some let down on the other person's part. A "no thank you" could be just as crushing as an "I don't know." I think you need to encourage your daughter to answer in a way that she feels comfortable with - ideally, that's directly. But if she's not comfortable being direct at this point, I don't think there's any harm in letting her rely on you as the "bad guy." She can just say "My mom won't let me have a boyfriend yet." I also think you're overthinking it when you say you are worried people will think she's a liar if she says something like that and then later has a boyfriend - parents change their minds and it could be as simple as that.


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## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

Maybe just give her a lesson on how to let a guy down easy? What's the big deal - feelings are going to be hurt in a situation like this no matter what. She just needs to not be a UAV about it. If she doesn't like a guy, she can say thanks but no thanks.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

11 - 13 is not the same as a child. It is more of a pubescent youth. Which means that as much as the parents things "they don't need to be dating/having a boyfriend/girlfriend/thinking about these kinds of things" what is really happening is they are starting to become aware of the fact that yes, members of the opposite (or same) sex are attractive in "that way" and they want to test the waters. And yeah, part of that is having someone you say is your boyfriend or girlfriend to other people even if you two only hang out at school.

Again 11 - 13, not children... youth in the transition from childhood to adulthood.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

If dating is so ubiquitous, then you should understand how much harder it would be for her to say no. To be able to say that you wouldn't let her, would actually be kinder to her and to the boys, because it's no longer about her or him. If there is a lot of pressure, and she just says no, her peers are going to push her more and more because there isn't a good excuse.

Be thankful your daughter doesn't want to date, and be her excuse. It's one of the few things my mom did right for me, allowing me to say "My mom won't let me". She was willing to be perceived as the mean mom, rather than trying to be everyone else's friend.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

When I was 15 years old a 29 year old man asked me out on a date. I was terrified to say no, even though I knew a 29 year old guy that wants to date a 15 year old has something wrong with him. So I told him, "I have to ask my mom." as my way of getting out of it. I knew it wasn't safe to date him. So we went over to my mom and asked... I just knew she'd say not on you ever loving life. ... She said "okay, have her home by 10 pm." thankfully nothing happened, but it was probably the most terrifying date of my life.

I was 15 I was not sexually active and I was raised in a culture that was all about "letting a guy down easy" Date rape basically didn't exist as a punishable crime in the 1980's. I was totally unprepared with how to deal with a worst case scenario and my mom basically handed me to this guy. Your daughter is 11, let her be a kid as long as she wants and let her use you as an excuse.


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
11 - 13 is not the same as a child. It is more of a pubescent youth. Which means that as much as the parents things "they don't need to be dating/having a boyfriend/girlfriend/thinking about these kinds of things" what is really happening is they are starting to become aware of the fact that yes, members of the opposite (or same) sex are attractive in "that way" and they want to test the waters. And yeah, part of that is having someone you say is your boyfriend or girlfriend to other people even if you two only hang out at school.

Again 11 - 13, not children... youth in the transition from childhood to adulthood.

Well, I just don't agree.

I have a 16 year old. When she was that age, she was most definitely still a child. My son is 11. He is absolutely still a child. He plays with Hot Wheel Cars and plastic dinosaurs for goodness' sake. It's not just his choice of toys. I know him. His thought process, his decision making - he's still a kid.

When my daughter was in junior high, she had lots of friends, some boys and some girls. What's wrong with just letting kids be kids and have friends? Why must they be paired off the minute they hit double digits in age?

There is nothing, IMO, to be gained by having a boyfriend in 6th grade. But there is a lot to lose, including just the fun and freedom of being a kid and not having to deal with relationships and breakups and all that drama.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I still play with hot wheel cars... They're fun...

The fact that you still consider him a child doesn't mean he is still 100% a child. He's not an adult, but he's not a child either.

I didn't say that they have to be paired off once they hit double digits, but the assumption adults have of 11, 12, 13 year olds being "children" bugs me a lot, and I see the effects often enough. 12 year old who behave like 6 year olds when their parents are around because their parents treat them like 6 year olds who are otherwise very much capable of behaving in a more mature way. And guess what... All those parents will tell you "I know my child and he/she is still too young/too immature/too much a child" for them to respect the fact that said child is in the process of growing up.

I dunno what to call them, pre-teens, tweens, a 13 year old is a teenager that much is clear. But they are _not_ still children.


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

No sense borrowing trouble. You have your dd to deal with and help through the trials of adolescence. That's your job. The boys have parents of their own, all of whom probably have some personal insights into dealing with rejection. That's their job. Your job is big. Don't go worrying about theirs.

It sounds like your dd is using you to set her own boundaries and maintain her personal comfort zone. Middle school is tricky. It's great that she's found a way. (Especially when someone asked her out in front of the entire drama class - by middle school standards, that's like proposing on live TV during the Super Bowl. No one should be put on the spot like that.)

Since she's been open with you about it, this might be a great opportunity for you to have a heart-to-heart with her about the circumstances under which she would want you to give her "permission" to "go out" with someone - what kind of person would she want to consider being involved with in that way?


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## caudex (Dec 7, 2007)

I dunno. My parents always said, about ANY situation, boys, being asked somewhere I don't want to go, bad party situation, that their job was to protect me if I needed them and they were fine with being "the bad guy." I was free to say, at any time, "My parents won't let me/ don't like/ prefer me to..." with no hurt feelings, and all of my peers accepted that. I probably used that excuse til I went to college.







If you want her to be able to change her mind, she can say, "well, they changed their minds," or "maybe if they meet you, they will," and you could have a 5 minute conversation with the kid picking her up somewhere and give her an "okay."

It's hard to rise above the pressure to "date" at that young age. I did it, and I often was not nice about it. But when the situation warranted it, having the safety net of knowing that I wouldn't hurt my parents' feelings by using them helped a lot. I could explore new things and then pull back when I was uncomfortable. Your daughter sounds like a good kid. I bet as long as she knows you've got her back it will be fine.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
Probably not, but the reality is that having a "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" is fairly ubiquitous in our middle schools starting in 6th grade. Like I said earlier, I don't think that it entails much more than just saying that someone is your girlfriend around school and maybe going to school dances together.


I see this too in our middle school, and while to us it looks like pairing off doesn't entail much, I don't think that's quite right. I know from the teachers that there is often huge drama, tears, and anxiety related to the pairing off/breaking up cycle. Enough so that they are incredibly protective of the kid's space to just be kids and try to downplay the drama as much as possible. It's not always as simple as it seems.

There is a difference between an 11 y/o and a 13 y/o which has to be acknowledged for the OP's dd as well.


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

I'm with churndash. I know I'm old as dirt, but good grief, have things changed that much since I was a kid? If I'd asked my parents at 11 (or 12 or 14) if I could go out on a date, the answer would have been "absolutely not." You started dating at 16; 15 if your parents were really lenient. I'm just shocked at the idea of 11 & 12 year-olds "going out," and I've heard too many stories in recent months about younger and younger kids being sexually active to think that that just means sitting together at the lunch table for all of these children who are "dating."

Just call me old-fashioned, I guess. That's okay, I LIKE being a throw-back to the olden days. LOL

And HOLY CRAP artgoddess.







What an awful experience!


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I think it's awesome she's honoring herself and not more worried about hurting the boys' feelings. I hope she doesn't get that taken from her because it's a lesson it takes many of us our whole lives to learn.
I'm not sure why be concerned the boys might get hurt feelings. She doesn't want to go out with them and at 11 GOOD FOR HER!!! She seems to be handling it well and I hope she continues to have the self awareness and ability to say "NO" for the rest of her life.









Soposded, EXACTLY and thank you!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I think it's awesome she's honoring herself and not more worried about hurting the boys' feelings. I hope she doesn't get that taken from her because it's a lesson it takes many of us our whole lives to learn.
I'm not sure why be concerned the boys might get hurt feelings. She doesn't want to go out with them and at 11 GOOD FOR HER!!! She seems to be handling it well and I hope she continues to have the self awareness and ability to say "NO" for the rest of her life.









Soposded, EXACTLY and thank you!

But the OP said that her daughter was NOT saying "no" clearly, and that was the problem.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I think some posters have not read all the way through, considering what the OP is concerned about is her daughter's _inability_ to say no. I don't think this came through clearly in her first post, but she definitely clarified it in her further posts.

Also, I don't think it's unreasonable to want her to consider the boy's feelings. Not in choosing whether or not to say no, but in how to say no. (And I think if she needs to use her mom as a reason right now, that's fine, if it helps.)

Communicating "no" firmly but kindly is a good life skill to have in general, not just regarding dating. Certainly, some requests don't deserve kind responses, but I don't know why there is an assumption that being kind, as well as firm, makes you a doormat.

Maybe I just look at my little boy and feel sad that in 10 years people are going to be looking at him as a potential rapist when he likes a girl, instead of as a kid who is learning to navigate social waters like the OP's daughter is as well.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
But the OP said that her daughter was NOT saying "no" clearly, and that was the problem.









I misread. Then my advice is to tell her to say "no" and get comfortable with it.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

In our culture (which is a rape culture) I wouldn't be as concerned with the boys' feelings as much as my daughter's ability to say no directly and firmly.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
Probably not, but the reality is that having a "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" is fairly ubiquitous in our middle schools starting in 6th grade. Like I said earlier, I don't think that it entails much more than just saying that someone is your girlfriend around school and maybe going to school dances together.

I thought that too at 13 when a guy I didn't mind hanging out with asked to be called my boyfriend and I his girlfriend. Then he pressured me to kiss him and I did, then not long later he talked about wanting to have sex, and showed me the condom he'd acquired. I ran off embarrassed and next time I saw him I dumped him.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
I never suggested that she should go out with boys she doesn't want to go out with nor did I ever say that I want her to be more concerned with the boys' feelings than I do her own desires. What I _do_ want her to do is say "no," when she wants to _and_ find a way say it that is not nebulous, leaving the boy hopeful, or embarrassing to the boy. One of these boys apparently asked her to "go out" with him in front of the entire drama class. That is a hard one to respond to in a way that doesn't leave either one of them embarrassed.

That was a risk that the boy choose to take. I don't feel like it should be your DD's responsibility to come up with a way to turn him down without embarrassing him.

I worry that telling your DD she can't use you as an excuse "My mom doesn't let me date." will send her the message she can't rely on you to protect her. Sure it would be ideal if she could say, "no way dude, not interested." But if she's having trouble with that don't take away the tools she does has for saying no.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

I'm' just going to repeat the OP's post here, because I think not everyone is getting what she's asking:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
I absolutely don't think that she is intentionally hurting anyone's feelings. I am more concerned that she is giving them indirect answers like, "I have to check with my mom," which isn't actually "no" and may leave him still hoping. *She is then never getting back to the boys, which seems unfair.*


Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
That was a risk that the boy choose to take. I don't feel like it should be your DD's responsibility to come up with a way to turn him down without embarrassing him.

I worry that telling your DD she can't use you as an excuse "My mom doesn't let me date." will send her the message she can't rely on you to protect her. *Sure it would be ideal if she could say, "no way dude, not interested." But if she's having trouble with that don't take away the tools she does has for saying no.*

Of course she should try to be fair. I do think she has some responsibility, as a decent human being, to try to not embarrass another human being. But, as you point out, she's only eleven years old. She's doing the best she can. It's perfectly acceptable that she's using mom as an excuse to turn a boy down. The boys will be fine.

It's a learning experience, for both her and the boy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 
Maybe I just look at my little boy and feel sad that in 10 years people are going to be looking at him as a potential rapist when he likes a girl, instead of as a kid who is learning to navigate social waters like the OP's daughter is as well.









Yup.

And not everyone feels this way. So far dh and I are pretty pleased with 15 y.o. dd's 15 y.o. boyfriend. He's a nice kid/guy/young man.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I forgot to say that I would let her use you as an excuse OP, I really think that's a good compromise for her right now. She needs to know that you are there for her and that's more important imo than her not telling a lie in this situation. And you could also decide 11 is too young for 'going out' and then it's not a lie at all.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 
Maybe I just look at my little boy and feel sad that in 10 years people are going to be looking at him as a potential rapist when he likes a girl, instead of as a kid who is learning to navigate social waters like the OP's daughter is as well.

I'm not sure most people think that way though. I don't view boys as predators and I definitely don't view my own sons that way even though I acknowledge our rape culture. I do however realize I have a responsibility to teach my sons to respect others and their boundaries because our culture certainly doesn't. And on the flip side to teach my daughter that her boundaries matter and she has a right to be heard and say no even if it does hurt some one's feelings.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 

Maybe I just look at my little boy and feel sad that in 10 years people are going to be looking at him as a potential rapist when he likes a girl, instead of as a kid who is learning to navigate social waters like the OP's daughter is as well.


Actually, from what I can see, some of the boys need their "no" skills as much as the girls do! Because my dd is older than my ds I tend to focus on her empowerment, but really this is about all young people learning the skills of self knowledge, clear communication, and the ability to stand up for what they feel is right for them.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I'm not sure most people think that way though. I don't view boys as predators and I definitely don't view my own sons that way even though I acknowledge our rape culture. I do however realize I have a responsibility to teach my sons to respect others and their boundaries because our culture certainly doesn't. And on the flip side to teach my daughter that her boundaries matter and she has a right to be heard and say no even if it does hurt some one's feelings.

I certainly acknowledge the male privilege, sexism, and violence toward women in our culture. However, I don't like the phrase "rape culture" because I think it sets people up to view men as predators and women as victims. I want both my daughter and son to respect other people's boundaries and to protect their own. I want both of them, but especially my daughter, to exercise safety and caution, but not live in fear. I want her to trust her instincts but not view all men as potential predators. I'm not saying that you feel this way, but I do see this attitude in real life and on these boards, and I think it harms women and men.

Yes, I think it's important for girls to know they can (and should) say no even if it does hurt some one's feelings. But a kind no can soften that hurt, and I don't see any reason not to teach that as well.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The fact that you still consider him a child doesn't mean he is still 100% a child. He's not an adult, but he's not a child either.

I didn't say that they have to be paired off once they hit double digits, but the assumption adults have of 11, 12, 13 year olds being "children" bugs me a lot, and I see the effects often enough.

Agreed, and the parents who are convinced that their children are too young to be thinking about these things end up knowing the least about what is going on in their kids lives. I know lots of 11 and 12 year olds who aren't allowed to have boyfriends who none the less have had several!

According to my popular 12 year DD, the best thing to say to a boy who has asked to be a "boyfriend" is:


> "You are a good friend and I like you, but I don't think of you in that way."


Being asked "out" doesn't necessarily involved going anywhere, and at DD's school there is a kind of relationship referred to as "dating at school" which means the kids have agreed to be a couple, but doesn't involve anything beyond that agreement.

And both my kids have me full blessing to say that they aren't allowed to do anything that they don't want to. If that ever makes it easier for them, fine by me.







However, many girls this age aren't allowed to have boy friends and yet have them anyway, so I doubt that it will work very well for her.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

This blog entry pretty much sums up why I use the term rape culture and why it no doubt applies to our culture (I'm in the US). http://shakespearessister.blogspot.c...lture-101.html.
Rape is an ugly word and it's an ugly act but I think it's important we are real about it and call it like it is so that hopefully we can change things.

Going out meant more than just a label back when I was in middle school and I'd gather it's at least the same now. I remember being in middle school and I know what a lot of kids were up too and I doubt less is happening now. I remember being shocked when my younger cousin told me what she and her friends did in middle school and that was 15 yrs ago. She was a part of the popular crowd and peer pressure played a big part in all of it.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 
Be thankful your daughter doesn't want to date, and be her excuse. It's one of the few things my mom did right for me, allowing me to say "My mom won't let me". She was willing to be perceived as the mean mom, rather than trying to be everyone else's friend.

I'm fine with being her excuse and last year I was. At this point, though, I'm not so sure that it is b/c she isn't getting interested in boys at all. I think that the larger issue has been that she isn't interested in the boys who are asking her out.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

That is where the age old "I think you're nice, but I don't really like you like that." comes in.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
I'm fine with being her excuse and last year I was. At this point, though, I'm not so sure that it is b/c she isn't getting interested in boys at all. I think that the larger issue has been that she isn't interested in the boys who are asking her out.

I'm not getting why this is an issue. I really think that if she needs your help, I think most 11 year olds need their parents help, it's okay for her to ask for it. Sure encourage her to be honest if she can, but really at 11 her moms job is to be in her corner, and if that means making you the bad guy so be it. Why does it bother you?


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## paulamae (Jun 8, 2010)

im worried with the boys..


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## Delilah83 (Jun 7, 2010)

I think the learning how to say "no" nice but firmly to unwanted advances is an incredibly important thing for a young girl to know. If that means making mom the bad guy then so be it.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I'm not getting why this is an issue. I really think that if she needs your help, I think most 11 year olds need their parents help, it's okay for her to ask for it. Sure encourage her to be honest if she can, but really at 11 her moms job is to be in her corner, and if that means making you the bad guy so be it. Why does it bother you?

It sounds to me as if she may be concerned that her DD will say, "No, my mom doesn't let me date" to one boy and then the next week will want to say yes to another boy and feel awkward about it, or the other boy's feelings will be more hurt as a result.

Or, OP, is it that you want your DD to feel able to say no without using you as a reason? It seems to me you may be able to help her find other ways to say no while still being just as supportive of her right to say no.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 
Or, OP, is it that you want your DD to feel able to say no without using you as a reason? It seems to me you may be able to help her find other ways to say no while still being just as supportive of her right to say no.

No, I'm fine with being her excuse. I want two things:

1) her to be direct and not leave the boy hanging or hopeful; and
2) her to be honest.

If she isn't interested in a _specific_ boy that is different from not being interested in boys at all. I don't want her to tell a boy that she isn't ready to be "going out" and then, like you mentioned, change her mind when it is a different boy. I feel it better to be direct and honest than to make up excuses. If it is something like, "my parents don't want me to have a relationship at this point. If I find myself wanting a relationship, I will discuss it further with them, but for now I'm not interested," I'd be good with that b/c it leaves the door open for _her_ to change her mind when the circumstances/boy are different.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Honestly, I think that's much too long winded and complicated. I think the "if I fond myself wanting" stuff is just as likely to leave a guy hanging as what she's already saying. I don't really think there's a problem with her saying "My mom doesn't want me to." I mean, you don't want her to "go out" with a guy she's not interested in, right? So if she's not interested in the guy, she's not lying. I think you're asking too much of a not even 11 year old.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I think you're asking too much of a not even 11 year old.

She's almost 12.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Sorry! I thought you said she was about to turn 11. Still, I think it's a lot to ask. She's clearly having a hard time navigating this - and it's not like she's chosing to put herself in this position. THe boys are putting her on the spot in a way that she clearly isn't comfortable with. I think that however she can deflect the attention, even if that involves saying something that might not technically be true, should be fair game to her.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

ChristaN, it might be worth it to sit down with her and come up with a list of things she can say, and practice saying.

I don't think she's too young to be able to speak up for herself, but she may feel unprepared.

Personally I agree with you. I do think that it would potentially cause problems, if she is interested in boys but not that particular boy, for her to say "my mom doesn't want me to".

DD's line is "I really like spending time with you, but I really just want to be friends." It's short, sweet, to the point and doesn't directly or indirectly put the boy down. Or even imply a blanket ban on relationships. I think there is another good one earlier in this thread too. The best part is, she gets to practice now when boys are generally more inclined to listen to her and will give her more confidence later on when guys can get a little... Self-absorbed...


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

OP, I have to say that I think that you are overthinking this, and expecting too much of your dd. It's entirely possible that she might do exactly as you're worried about--not feel ready to say she's interested in a boy one day, and change her mind the next. She's a pre-teen. This happens all the time. I have heard of "relationships" that last all of two days, and then the kids are moving on. I don't really understand why you are so concerned about this. Your dd is very young. She is learning, experimenting and her feelings may change week to week. I guarantee she won't be the only one.

I might take a step back here, make sure you've talked about some good "tools" to use (including using you as an excuse), and let her manage her relationships. She'll learn more through trial and error than through your desires about how she acts.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
If it is something like, "my parents don't want me to have a relationship at this point. If I find myself wanting a relationship, I will discuss it further with them, but for now I'm not interested," I'd be good with that b/c it leaves the door open for _her_ to change her mind when the circumstances/boy are different.

That's very stilted and not how kids talk.

"I like you as a friend but I don't think of you in that way" is clear.

Besides, what she says shouldn't be about you, and it shouldn't be a lie. There's a good chance that when she does like someone and they like her back, those feelings will happen first and it won't have a thing to do with you.

The reality is that when those feeling hit, they hit. We don't ask permission for them. They just naturally develop.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Sorry! I thought you said she was about to turn 11. Still, I think it's a lot to ask. She's clearly having a hard time navigating this - and it's not like she's chosing to put herself in this position. THe boys are putting her on the spot in a way that she clearly isn't comfortable with. I think that however she can deflect the attention, even if that involves saying something that might not technically be true, should be fair game to her.









11 almost 12 is still pretty young especially when we're talking about relationship stuff. And of course there's also a possibility she'll never be interested in boys at all.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
OP, I have to say that I think that you are overthinking this, and expecting too much of your dd. It's entirely possible that she might do exactly as you're worried about--not feel ready to say she's interested in a boy one day, and change her mind the next. She's a pre-teen. This happens all the time. I have heard of "relationships" that last all of two days, and then the kids are moving on. I don't really understand why you are so concerned about this. Your dd is very young. She is learning, experimenting and her feelings may change week to week. I guarantee she won't be the only one.

I might take a step back here, make sure you've talked about some good "tools" to use (including using you as an excuse), and let her manage her relationships. She'll learn more through trial and error than through your desires about how she acts.

This.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I still play with hot wheel cars... They're fun...

The fact that you still consider him a child doesn't mean he is still 100% a child. He's not an adult, but he's not a child either.

I didn't say that they have to be paired off once they hit double digits, but the assumption adults have of 11, 12, 13 year olds being "children" bugs me a lot, and I see the effects often enough. 12 year old who behave like 6 year olds when their parents are around because their parents treat them like 6 year olds who are otherwise very much capable of behaving in a more mature way. And guess what... All those parents will tell you "I know my child and he/she is still too young/too immature/too much a child" for them to respect the fact that said child is in the process of growing up.

I dunno what to call them, pre-teens, tweens, a 13 year old is a teenager that much is clear. But they are _not_ still children.

I agree. Also, I sometimes pick up an implication that there is something rather shameful about growing up, and something virtuous about artificially extending childhood, that I find unhealthy.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
This.

Double ITA. I think now is a good time to start practicing letting go. I'm not saying stop parenting, but our kids learn and practice their social skills all the time and I don't think it's a good process to micro-manage. And it's great that she talks to you about this stuff; I'd focus on reflective listening. Rather than jump in with your advice, you might understand more what she's thinking and feeling by just listening and probing why she feels and acts the way she does - that way you help her sort through and figure out her own feelings; knowing your own feelings is one of the most important skills for then figuring out how to act on them.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
DD's line is "I really like spending time with you, but I really just want to be friends."

Thank you, I like this.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

ChristaN what you want her to be able to do makes sense to me for an adult. But she's not an adult. Countless studies have been done showing that the teen brain is not fully developed and I agree with the pp's. That she is still young, 11 or 12 or 16 even, be in her corner, and let her use you as an excuse. You may like I just want to be friends line, but she may not. Don't force it on her.


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## ell (Jan 3, 2009)

I do think you're over thinking this. Whatever answers she gives to one boy has no bearing on the answers she gives to the next boy. If what you're trying to do is help give her language to be clear, then by all means do that. But I am wondering about what your motivations are - for example, you seem to be worrying about what will happen "when" she wants to go out with a boy and whether her previous responses will affect her chances with the next boy or something. She's 11. Her relationships with boys will be evolving over the next, well, 30 years or so. And the one message I would *not* want to be hammering in to an 11 year old's formative brain when it comes to relationships with men is that "their feelings are more important than yours". That's an excellent recipe for dysfunction over the next few decades.

Tell her to be honest, not to compromise what she feels to save someone else's feelings, and let her be.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
Thank you, I like this.

MD's answer is cool if she really does like spending time with the kid, and wants to be friends - but what if she doesn't? I think giving "reasons" is sort of a recipe for a boy to keep pushing it. Aside from that, "Let's just be friends" isn't really something that ever comes out sounding genuine.


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