# Protecting Child from Domestic Abuse WWYD



## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

: Mamas,

Yesterday my coworker confided in me that her DH is physically abusive to her and her DS (4 YO). At first she had told me that a busybody in our office was starting rumors about her DH because her DS is very active and he gets lots of bumps and bruises. I believed it because this other coworker is very anti-male and angry. But then yesterday she told me that he had attacked her the night before because he found out that she was cheating. She said that she was in therapy and that she had a list of shelters to got to.

We are from the same hometown that is about 1000 miles from where we live now. We both have 2 kids and no other family besides our DHs here. It's very expensive to live here and she earns about 1/2 what I do. I would not feel safe being here alone with two kids. I encouraged her to go back home so that she has some support. My fear is that she will go back to him or find another abuser when money gets tight and she feeels trapped by the expensive of everything.

But I'm really just sick about knowing that her DS is getting hit. She said that her DH said that he needs to be tough with the little boy because he knows how boys will be. Although there's nothing I can really do to help her, I feel responsible to do something about the little boy since I know what's going on. I don't have any extra money or space. I don't know her well enough to take her in even if I did have space. I've never met her kids. I couldn't sleep last night. I asked my DH should I call CPS. The trouble is that CPS is a joke here. Plus I don't think it will be any better for her son to be taken away from her just to go to some strangers to abuse him more.

What would you do?


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I don;t know what I would do. That is so sad







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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
I encouraged her to go back home so that she has some support.

That sounds like the best she could do, actually.
What did she say to that idea?
Could you help her scrape up the money for the trip, help her get organized?


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

She said that she did not want to go back because she had worked so hard to get the job she has and to move here. She said that she didn't want to uproot her kids again. I wonder if her mom knows what's going on because I think her mom would invite her back in an instant. She always talked about being close to her mom.


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## Rhiannon Feimorgan (Aug 26, 2005)

I know you said that CPS is a joke there but that's really what I would do. This child is being abused. As tough a situation as his mother is in, I've been in an abusive relationship and I know how hard it can be to see a way out, if she is letting it happen and not removing him from the situation than she shared a part in the abuse. That boy need an adult to stand up for him. He need someone to say that what is happening is not ok.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rhiannon Feimorgan* 
I know you said that CPS is a joke there but that's really what I would do. This child is being abused. As tough a situation as his mother is in, I've been in an abusive relationship and I know how hard it can be to see a way out, if she is letting it happen and not removing him from the situation than she shared a part in the abuse. That boy need an adult to stand up for him. He need someone to say that what is happening is not ok.









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She has the choice to get out and get away from the person who is BEATING HER CHILD. If she refuses to take the choice because of a JOB (?!?!?!?!?!), someone needs to alert the authorities. Talk about misplaced priorities







:


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## ktbug (Jul 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
She has the choice to get out and get away from the person who is BEATING HER CHILD. If she refuses to take the choice because of a JOB (?!?!?!?!?!), someone needs to alert the authorities. Talk about misplaced priorities







:

Easy, now. In the middle of a situation like that it's really, really hard to think straight, to prioritize, especially if you have psychopathology of a longtime victim. Sometimes it doesn't feel like much of a choice.

I would encourage her to go to a shelter immediately and figure out what to do from there. Well, hell, I mean, if it were me, I'd tell her to bring her son and come sleep on my kitchen floor, but I'm crazy.

I guess this is one of those situations where a call to cps is warranted, but that might just compound the problems for the woman in question, and it also might enrage the abuser, since custody is likely to be taken away. He might become so angry that he harms her seriously for taking away his child.

Maybe the two of you could speak to your boss together? A female superior, most hopefully. Help her not to give up and to see that she has to get out, for herself AND for her son.















ech. teh suck.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I never get involved in these CPS threads because I don't have any experience at all with them, and don't really know at all how they work.

But what I do know is that poor little 4 year old boy needs SOMEONE to stand up for him and protect him. His Mother is obviously unable right now, and yes, because you know about the abuse, that responsibility falls to you.

Are you good enough friends with his Mother to talk with her? To tell her you can't allow this to happen and that if she does not leave/go back home/whatever that you will be forced to call CPS? Maybe give her the chance to act on her own first?

What a heartwrenching story.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

How would you feel if a week, 6 months or a year from now that child is taken to the hospital?

CPS does not automatically take a child away. They do too often yes, but if a 4 year old child is being BEATEN by his father, then he needs help. He cannot call for help. His mother is in an abusive relationship, and not able to help him either. Right now, she's trapped in the domestic violence cycle, and can't see past her own needs to help her son.

You need to call the authorities. One phone call alone probably won't get something done, but if there's a police report of domestic violence, it might get something started that will help them both.


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## ktbug (Jul 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
You need to call the authorities. One phone call alone probably won't get something done, but if there's a police report of domestic violence, it might get something started that will help them both.

Yes, indeed, that's another thing. Try to convince her to file a police report, contact a lawyer, look into a restraining order. Police documentation can serve her well in the long run.


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

I just talked to my own mother and she suggested that I encourage her to file a police report. I don't know this woman very well. I just say hi to her at work and swap gossip about home. I don't feel comfortable calling CPS because I don't even know where she lives let alone what the full story is in her house. I would feel really bad if her son ended up in the hospital in 1 month, 6 or a year, but I'd also feel really vulnerable if I took some action and she turned on me for butting into her business. I'd feel like shit if her kid got taken away and ended up beaten by some stranger who was supposed to take him in.

I can't call the police because I don't know her DH's name. I don't know her DS's name, all I know is that she calls him a nickname. I don't know what school he attends or much of anything other than his mother's name and her employer. God knows that we work in a very unforgiving place. She needs to keep her job if she's going to get away. I don't want to jeopardize that.

I'm going to follow my mom's advice and tell her that I think she should file a police report and document the violence, she should get a restraining order and encourage her to move to the shelter until she can get back home to her family. (But as my mother said, there's no guarantee that her family wasn't abusive, too.) I'm going to tell her that if she doesn't do something that I will feel compelled to tell someone who can help her kids. She will either make a move or stop talking to me about it.

Her DS is in preschool, so undoubtedly his teachers notice bruises. They are in a better position than me to help him.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

You'd be better off giving her the number for the local domestic violence shelter and suggesting she call them to make an escape plan. If she's still with the guy, no way she's going to file a police report.

The preschool may not notice the bruises - if they're on the body or buttocks, they may not see them.

Look up the info for domestic violence or go to http://www.childhelp.org/ for more info. You can also call 1-800-4-A CHILD to get information on how to proceed.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
But as my mother said, there's no guarantee that her family wasn't abusive, too. I'm going to tell her that if she doesn't do something that I will feel compelled to tell someone who can help her kids. She will either make a move or stop talking to me about it.

It is true, no guarantee that her family was not abusive, and then it becomes very important that she keeps her job and finds a way out of this situation on her own. I just feel you may be the only person she talks to about this, so I am thinking, let her talk as much as she likes, encourage her to talk to you. By talking she will build more strength and feel that you care, and that will have some time to reflect on her choices. I am afraid if you say "if you do not do something, I will feel compelled to report" she may shut down and stop confiding in you. You may still choose to report, or ask for a confidential meeting with the pre-school teachers or principal. I have no experience with any of this, I am talking common sense and I hope no offense taken.


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

Gaialice: I hear what you are saying about letting her confide in me, but the truth is that I can't handle listening to this stuff. I was so anxious yesterday that I couldn't sleep. My hands are shaking. I'm not in a good place to be a confidant right now. I have my own minor in comparison, but still difficult things to deal with.

I thought yesterday that I can talk to someone in HR about EAP for her anonymously. Then I can give her all of the resources that you guys have provided along with that. I'm going to talk to her today. I'm going to ask her to have lunch so that we can talk.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Mowilli3, I cannot imagine, hearing this kind of stuff must be ever so hard. Jsut reading about it, without having ever seen the victims is hard enough. It is very, very courageous what you are doing already to help this lady. Most people would have turned a deaf ear.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilly3*
But then yesterday she told me that he had attacked her the night before because he found out that she was cheating.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilly3*
But I'm really just sick about knowing that her DS is getting hit. She said that her DH said that he needs to be tough with the little boy because he knows how boys will be.

Is this what you're going on, or did she give you more details than this? I'm not saying it's acceptable, but I can understand a man getting violent at the discovery that he wife has been cheating. A one-time violent outburst at such a discovery does not mean that he has a pattern of abusive behavior. Also, did she tell you more about her ds being hit? Because, again, in your OP her dh said he needs to be tough with the little boy. That does not equal abuse. Hitting a child is not always abuse, (according to the law, I mean.)

I would not go to any authorities. I would listen and encourage her to get somewhere safe with her child. If she chooses not to do that, I would continue to offer support and leave it at that.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I agree with abac. A child "hit" by a father, doesn't meet the definition of abuse in most states. Bruises are a concern, however. But, children get bruises from playing and rough housing also. I am certain hearing her description must have been very upsetting, especially if you have hot buttons about being hit as a child, as I do.

I believe that *empowering* the mother with resources, since she has options: job, going back home, therapist, shelter, new boyfriend, would be my next step. Disempowering her with interventions by "helpful authorities" who are going to increase her fear of isolation from her child, and suspicion on her are a concern to me. If she has these resources and is in danger, I believe that she could choose one of them. It sounds like she was needing empathy, not "fixing".

She could certainly choose to file a legal complaint for assault against her husband, also.

Pat


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

No she explicitly told me that he was abusing her and has been since they were dating. She told me that the bruises were becoming more evident on her son. I'm not prone to exaggeration and I didn't ask her for any of this information. I only stopped by to ask if she wanted to have lunch and she called me and unloaded.

I emailed her this morning and asked her to have lunch. I attached a doc to the message with all the information that I found and was provided her, numbers and such. She wrote that she wanted to have lunch, but that she did not get the attachment. I got to work before 1. I called her, no answer. At 1:30 I went down to meet her as planned, and she had left. I did my best and I feel very helpless. I've got to let this situation go because I feel terrible and I don't think she's receptive to any help I can give. I want to help, but this is way out of my league.


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who offered advice and resources. I passed on the resources to her. I pray to God that she uses them.


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## ktbug (Jul 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
Is this what you're going on, or did she give you more details than this? I'm not saying it's acceptable, but I can understand a man getting violent at the discovery that he wife has been cheating. A one-time violent outburst at such a discovery does not mean that he has a pattern of abusive behavior. Also, did she tell you more about her ds being hit? Because, again, in your OP her dh said he needs to be tough with the little boy. That does not equal abuse. Hitting a child is not always abuse, (according to the law, I mean.)

I would not go to any authorities. I would listen and encourage her to get somewhere safe with her child. If she chooses not to do that, I would continue to offer support and leave it at that.

eeeeek.









What?

Cheating doesn't give someone a pass to hit you. YMMV, but it doesn't give anyone a pass to hit me. Not once, not ever, not for any reason, same goes for my kid. And I'd look pretty suspiciously at anyone that needs to "be tough" with a 4 year old.

no.more.mdc.today


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## Mom2Joseph (May 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac* 
but I can understand a man getting violent at the discovery that he wife has been cheating.









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To the OP: I would offer information she can use, hot lines, shelter information, etc. I would not go to her boss, as some employers see this very negatively, wondering if the violence could carry over into the work place. (the husband coming in the work place to hurt the wife).

I hope they find a safe solution soon.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
Thanks to everyone who offered advice and resources. I passed on the resources to her. I pray to God that she uses them.


I think you should at least call CPS. It's anonymous, and she'll probably suspect the preschool teachers more than you. You know her name and last name, I presume. That's enough for them to find the kid. I've worked as a CASA in a county with one of the best family court systems in the US, and I still usually advocate against calling CPS, EXCEPT IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS!

That child's life is in danger.

I strongly encourage you not to chicken out. If he were a toddler standing in a busy parking lot alone, would you just walk away because you had too much to deal with?


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ktbug* 
eeeeek.









What?

Cheating doesn't give someone a pass to hit you. YMMV, but it doesn't give anyone a pass to hit me. Not once, not ever, not for any reason, same goes for my kid. And I'd look pretty suspiciously at anyone that needs to "be tough" with a 4 year old.

no.more.mdc.today










Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac*
*I'm not saying it's acceptable*, but I can understand a man getting violent at the discovery that he wife has been cheating.

Quoting myself here. There is a difference between something being understandable and being acceptable. I think it is more likely than not that finding your spouse is cheating is going to invoke some pretty strong emotions in just about anyone. I think it is an exceptional case that is not indicative of everyday life.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
No she explicitly told me that he was abusing her and has been since they were dating. She told me that the bruises were becoming more evident on her son.

This is more explicit than I understood you/her to convey. You could contact CPS and report the incident. She can also. It would be more accurate for a caregiver who has observed the child to report a concern, than you. I would emphasize that she needs to contact a shelter or CPS herself urgently to protect the child further.

Pat


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

It is possible she told you because she is hoping you will take action. I would go ahead and make the call with whatever information you have. Her name, at the very least.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
It is possible she told you because she is hoping you will take action. I would go ahead and make the call with whatever information you have. Her name, at the very least.

My friend and I were discussing this possibility also. This would "absolve" her from "being the one who reported him" and protect her indirectly. Could you ask her if she wants you to report. The main issue is to facilitate and empower her to take action to protect herself and her child.

Pat


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## Iris' Mom (Aug 3, 2007)

I agree that you should encourage her to file a police report and get a restraining order. Also let her know about any domestic violence resources you know of.

I would not at this point call CPS on her -- she is looking for shelters and is in therapy. Do what you can to help her get out; reconsider calling the authorities if you feel she's decided to forgive him, as unfortunately victims of abuse often do. Calling CPS can really complicate things. They can be life savers to someone really trying but unable to turn themselves around, but they can also overlook abuse in some cases, or come down hard and take kids away when it's not really warranted. I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I thought I child was in danger and nobody to protect him, but when she's trying to get out, I wouldn't do it. That said, you could suggest that she call CPS herself; you might get a sense of if she's really hoping you'll do it for her as others have suggested, and she'll probably get off on a better foot with the case worker if she's initiated the complaint.


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
I think you should at least call CPS. It's anonymous, and she'll probably suspect the preschool teachers more than you. You know her name and last name, I presume. That's enough for them to find the kid. I've worked as a CASA in a county with one of the best family court systems in the US, and I still usually advocate against calling CPS, EXCEPT IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS!

That child's life is in danger.

I strongly encourage you not to chicken out. If he were a toddler standing in a busy parking lot alone, would you just walk away because you had too much to deal with?

I appreciate your advice, but your tone is way out of line. I am not chickening out of anything. I'm trying to be responsible and weigh what I think would be useful ways to intervene for the mother and the child. I am not responsible for this child's life. His mother and father are. I'm just trying to do the right thing, whatever that is, to improve a situation that could easily get worse. All I know is what she called and told me out of the blue one day. I don't know her well enough to even be able to judge her credibility. I'm assuming you aren't a troll, but things are much more complicated on this side of my computer than your summary suggest.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
I appreciate your advice, but your tone is way out of line. I am not chickening out of anything. I'm trying to be responsible and weigh what I think would be useful ways to intervene for the mother and the child. I am not responsible for this child's life. His mother and father are. I'm just trying to do the right thing, whatever that is, to improve a situation that could easily get worse. All I know is what she called and told me out of the blue one day. I don't know her well enough to even be able to judge her credibility. I'm assuming you aren't a troll, but things are much more complicated on this side of my computer than your summary suggest.

Well, I'm sorry you were offended. My intention was to embolden you. The reason I inferred you were "chickening out" is because of these statements:

"I did my best and I feel very helpless. I've got to let this situation go because I feel terrible and I don't think she's receptive to any help I can give. I want to help, but this is way out of my league."

and this:

"I'd also feel really vulnerable if I took some action and she turned on me for butting into her business."

I guess it sounded like you were scared. And I would probably be too, or at least very anxious. But, it is very easy to call CPS and file a report of child abuse (not sure if that's a good thing or not). I'm sure it's more complicated than I can see, but on the other hand it's more simple as well. It's simple in that a woman that you know told you that her husband was abusing her child. In my opinion, you now have the responsibility to do something with that information. This is your responsibility as part of humanity. I guess I feel like it is my responsibility to encourage you.


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

I sympathize with you because your coworker put you in a tough situation and it is hard to decide what to do. However...you have been placed in a situation where you are now responsible for this child's life. You know he is being abused and it is your obligation to report it. I'm not talking about 'mandated reporter'...it is your obligation as a human being to actively do something to save this child's life. Of course the child's parents should be responsible for the child's life but when the mother is also being abused and the father is the one doing it, he really doesn't have parents to protect him. You may be the only one who knows what is going on, and you need to contact CPS. It is great you gave a list of resources to the mother, but since she has been abused for so long already it is very likely she will not contact them on her own. Perhaps all she could get the strength to do was to confide in you and hope and pray that you could alert the police and/or CPS. Please please please reconsider and make a call to CPS.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiorio* 
I sympathize with you because your coworker put you in a tough situation and it is hard to decide what to do. However...you have been placed in a situation where you are now responsible for this child's life. You know he is being abused and it is your obligation to report it. I'm not talking about 'mandated reporter'...it is your obligation as a human being to actively do something to save this child's life. Of course the child's parents should be responsible for the child's life but when the mother is also being abused and the father is the one doing it, he really doesn't have parents to protect him. You may be the only one who knows what is going on, and you need to contact CPS. It is great you gave a list of resources to the mother, but since she has been abused for so long already it is very likely she will not contact them on her own. Perhaps all she could get the strength to do was to confide in you and hope and pray that you could alert the police and/or CPS. Please please please reconsider and make a call to CPS.

Yes! You said this so well.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ktbug* 
Easy, now. In the middle of a situation like that it's really, really hard to think straight, to prioritize, especially if you have psychopathology of a longtime victim. Sometimes it doesn't feel like much of a choice.


I want to clarify, I in NO WAY 'blame the victim' when it comes to domestic abuse. My heart goes out to this mama







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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
I emailed her this morning and asked her to have lunch. I attached a doc to the message with all the information that I found and was provided her, numbers and such. She wrote that she wanted to have lunch, but that she did not get the attachment. I got to work before 1. I called her, no answer. At 1:30 I went down to meet her as planned, and she had left. I did my best and I feel very helpless. I've got to let this situation go because I feel terrible and I don't think she's receptive to any help I can give. I want to help, but this is way out of my league.

I so, so hope that she and the kids are all safe. Did you at all hear from her since then? There are a couple of things I cannot understand from your posts. Is this kid the husband's child or is it a child that she has from a previous relationship? Is there another child (a baby) in the picture? I am asking this to understand what kind of rights this man has on the kids. If she decided to simply leave with the kids - would he be able to fight this decision? If he has no rights on the kids, it is way better for her to leave rather than getting CPS in the picture. As I see it, CPS would protect the kid, but then also take them away from their mommy, and leave this woman with her violent husband. Maybe this line of reasoning would convince her that she needs to leave him before worse happens, and that worse may happen if the kid talks about what is going on at home in preschool.


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## MamaRainebeau (Mar 2, 2006)

Just because a report to CPS is made does not mean that a child will be taken from his mother and father. Generally, all other options are exhausted first prior to putting the child "in the system" unless the abuse is so agregious that it is without question a requirement to protect the child's safety. For instnace, if the father is the abuser, CPS will usually institute a safety plan that includes the mother removing the child from the father's home or having the father removed (like per a protective order) and no allowing any contact with the father, etc. and ensuring the child's physical safety/no bruises, etc. and on and on. If the abused mama can't help herself and allows the father back around, then CPS can use that action or inaction to take things further if need be. And a child is only removed from a mother in a situation like this if she refuses to distance herself from the abuser.

I am generally anti CPS intervention, but this sounds like the type of situation that requires it. An abused woman only makes so many attempts at self help and her reaching out to you may well be as much proactivity as she is capable of right now. Please do something.

Lisa


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

there was a child here that was recently killed by his abusive mother. a neighbour of the family said she always heard the child crying, all day, and the parents screaming. she always but wondered if she should call authorities, but never did.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

If she's already in therapy, and already has the names of shelters, it sounds like she has things pretty well under control. All I would do if it were my co-worker is encourage her to call one or more of the shelters and start making plans to get out. Contacting CPS at this point could do more harm than good if she's just about ready to make changes anyway.


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