# Should I have minded my own business? Drama



## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm good friends with two women and we all spend a decent amount of time together. One mom and her family are vegans. Me and the other mom aren't. We've been taking turns watching the vegans son for her twice a month while she and her husband have a date night. All three of us are often at the other persons home and have what I thought was a good relationship. During the other moms turn to watch the son I was there dropping off a DVD I borrowed and hung around to chit chat when she offered the vegan child a piece of hamburger. The mom and her husband always bring his own food and snacks for him to eat if we're watching him. It works out great because our food is non vegan but on occasion I've gone to a vegan bakery to pick him up a treat all of us can eat. FYI- I checked with my friend to make sure this was okay. Anyway, I asked her if the vegan mom started eating meat again and forgot to tell me and she said "no but a little piece of hamburger isn't going to hurt him. it's what all kids get" and offered him a piece again. When she held it out for him to take I told him I think his mom brought something for him to eat and he should probably eat that instead. The mom rolled her eyes and when the little boy left the room (he's 3) she told me he needs meat and went on a tirade that really had nothing to do with the other moms rules and regulations for her son. I mentioned this to the other mom but waited until the next day to do so. I told her casually. "I just wanted to let you know so and so offered him a piece of burger while I was there." She was really upset, contacted the other mom for disrespecting her feeding choices and asked me and DH if we'd mind taking on the other moms night to watch her son. The mom who offered him the burger is P.O'ed with me for saying somethng to her about it. I told her I would have wanted her to do the same if I were in her position and that we may not like each others parenting choices but we have to accept them especially if we consider each other friends. The other mom isn't talking to her and she's not talking to me. I hate drama but I think I did the right thing my saying something. Would you have just stayed out of it? I would be highly upset if I found out the person I was trusting to watch my DD was feeding her items I specifically asked her not to.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

You did the right thing.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Wow. I used to be vegan and I would have really been upset if someone offered my kid meat without my permission.

I think you handled it well. You tried to say something to the other mom about it first and she clearly expressed to you that she didn't respect vegan mom's choices, so then you let vegan mom know.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I think you did the right thing. I would absolutely want to know if someone were breaking my trust like that, especially when it comes to my children.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

You did the right thing.

I love meat, but I can't imagine not respecting a friend's philosophy regarding vegetarianism/veganism. And if your other friend's concern is that the boy "needs" meat for health/development reasons, does she really think that a couple bites of burger once a month are going to have an effect? She was just making an "I know better than you" statement about the other mom's parenting choices, and I think it's good that she was called out about it.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Normally I'm a mind your own business kind of person, but I TOTALLY agree that you did the right thing. That's not right at all. Makes you wonder what she's doing to your kid on date night, doesn't it. She just can't be trusted to respect your choices.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

You totally did the right thing. the other mom is entitled to her opinion that the child needs meat, but to go behind the child's mom's back and sneak the kid meat against specific requests, and then basically lie about it- the vegan mom needed to know that. Sometimes drama is just unavoidable and you did the right thing.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

You absolutely did the right thing. I'm a meat eater, and I would never give a vegan kid meat. That's awful. IMO it's along the lines of disrespecting a family's religious choices, which is also absolutely off limits.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

I think you absolutly did the right thing, and I am a DIE HARD red meat lover.









That was just morally WRONG of the other mom. It is NOT up to her to decide what someone elses child NEEDS, especially if he is in a well cared for, well nurished environment. Now if he was emanciated and withdrawn, clearly starving to death, that is one thing. But this mama was being all high and mighty. To me it is the same if I asked my friend to take my kids to the doctor for me cuz I had to work, and she decided they needed their shots because "thats what all kids get". There would be HADES to pay, I can tell you that much!


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## Jaxinator (Dec 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
Normally I'm a mind your own business kind of person, but I TOTALLY agree that you did the right thing. That's not right at all. Makes you wonder what she's doing to your kid on date night, doesn't it. She just can't be trusted to respect your choices.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

You absolutely did the right thing. If I can't trust my friend to feed my kid what I feel is the right thing for them to eat they aren't my friend.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

You did the right thing. There was both disrespecting the parent's lifestyle going on, and even possibly causing some minor health issues for the 3-year-old, since some people's digestive systems have to go through a adjustment period (read: the runs, gas pains, digestive discomfort) if they haven't been digesting meat products and eat some.

You don't feed kids things you've been specifically told not to feed them.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

You were in the right. The mom that is PO'ed at you should realize that its not about weather or not she thinks the child needs meat, its about the fact that she totally disrespected her friends parenting choices. Im sure that there is something that she doesnt allow her child to do. How would she feel if she found out that you were letting her child do whatever it was she had said no to?


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I think I might have insisted that the meat feeder tell vegan mom first, but otherwise I think it was the right, if uncomfortable thing to do and I'm largely MYOB type too.


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## dakotablue (Jun 21, 2009)

You did the right thing. I mean this is something that the mom has specified as important and the other mother knows this and is choosing to ignore.

If she's not respecting a mom wishes on this, what else isn't she respecting?

I'd be very happy to be told this. I'd want to know.

this is why MIL will never watch DS. He is allergic to wheat yet she doesn't get what's wrong with cake.


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## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

i agree with all the PP. you did the right thing, shes just pissed someone found out!


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
You did the right thing. There was both disrespecting the parent's lifestyle going on, and even possibly causing some minor health issues for the 3-year-old, since some people's digestive systems have to go through a adjustment period (read: the runs, gas pains, digestive discomfort) if they haven't been digesting meat products and eat some.

You don't feed kids things you've been specifically told not to feed them.









I know a lot of people who get sick if they have food *prepared* too close to read meat. (Like on the same cooking surface.) I would never give a vegan child meat. You totally did the right thing!


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I agree you did the right thing. And like PPs, I would be wondering if she doesn't respect my parenting choices when I'm not around. I probably would not let her watch my kids again.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

You definitely did the right thing. One of the reasons I trust a friend here with my kid is because she doesn't give my kid ANYTHING without asking me first... she has been known to ask if my kid can have the same thing on different occassions. She knows my parenting beliefs and will follow them to her best ability.

Also why I won't trust another person to watch my kid. She couldn't care less about food and her husband thinks its NORMAL for small children to have tastes of alcohol. I mean, I literally physically pushed his hand/beer bottle away from my BARELY ONE YEAR OLD'S mouth because he kept insisting that a TASTE wouldn't hurt her and 'all my kids have been drunk from sneaking drinks when I wasn't watching.' His youngest child is 3.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

You did the right thing. The other friend is upset because she knows what she did was wrong and she got caught.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barbie64g* 
That was just morally WRONG of the other mom. It is NOT up to her to decide what someone elses child NEEDS, especially if he is in a well cared for, well nurished environment. Now if he was emanciated and withdrawn, clearly starving to death, that is one thing. But this mama was being all high and mighty. To me it is the same if I asked my friend to take my kids to the doctor for me cuz I had to work, and she decided they needed their shots because "thats what all kids get". There would be HADES to pay, I can tell you that much!

Totally. If nothing else, imagine how sick the poor kid could have gotten! His body isn't used to meat and it's a shock to the system.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
Normally I'm a mind your own business kind of person, but I TOTALLY agree that you did the right thing. That's not right at all. Makes you wonder what she's doing to your kid on date night, doesn't it. She just can't be trusted to respect your choices.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm a very MYOB kind of person, and you definitely did the right thing. The other mom was being really, really disrespectful of the vegan mom's choices. Plus, if the little guy did eat it, and did have any kind of health issue from it, his mom would have had _no_ idea what was wrong!


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

you did the right thing. if the meat-giver is going to be dramatic about it...oh well.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm seriously appalled that a "friend" would give a vegan kid meat on purpose. Or find it appropriate to hold a belief system that includes the thought "all kids do/get ___".









You totally did the right thing. You know these ladies...how do you think this is going to play out?


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

You did the right thing...and the hard thing. You proved your character..as did the other mother. She's probably embarrassed, as she should be.

I know it hurts that there's anger and hurt between all of you right now, but you didn't do it.

I hope all goes well with the babysitting thing. It sounds like it may be complicated and uncomfortable for awhile. I don't think I'd trust the other mother with my child anyway. She apparently thinks that her way is the only way.


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## PretzelMama (Apr 19, 2009)

This:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaS* 
You did the right thing. The other friend is upset because she knows what she did was wrong and she got caught.

...and this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ellien C* 
Makes you wonder what she's doing to your kid on date night, doesn't it. She just can't be trusted to respect your choices.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
I'm seriously appalled that a "friend" would give a vegan kid meat on purpose. Or find it appropriate to hold a belief system that includes the thought "all kids do/get ___".









You totally did the right thing. You know these ladies...how do you think this is going to play out?

Thank you and everyone else for responding.

To answer your question, it's not playing out well at all and I don't see a happy ending here. The vegan mom is a very relaxed and easy going mama and from my experience it takes a lot to tick her off and she is very hot right now. The other mama is hot with me but I can live with that. She called me again today to air out her issues and I let her have her say. She says as a friend I shouldn't have "ratted" her out. I told her another friends child was involved and if the vegan mom was feeding her son something she clearly knew she shouldn't, I would have done the same thing and as mothers we have to understand how important it is for us to respect each others parenting choices even when we disagree. I'm surprised and extremely annoyed that she's not getting this!

The vegan mom wants nothing to do with her. She's wondering if her son was given meat before and she feels violated and is extremely hurt.

I'm happy to take on the extra day of babysitting for the evening she and her DH need it if she still wants it. She may be uncomfortable about leaving him with anyone at this point and I can't blame her.

This is a very touchy situation because all of our kids get along and we've enjoyed some great times together but there is a major lack of trust going on here. Vegan mom for obvious reasons, meat mom doesn't trust me and I can't trust a person who can't respect her friends choices about child feeding. It's so easy to feed the child what his mom and dad have sent with him. I'm careful to not fuel the fire when vegan mom talks about what happened. I listen. This is just a not good situation. I hope someone would say something to me if the situation were reversed. Meat mom's what's the big deal, you ratted me out thing is juvenille and it's just making me







and









Oh, I think another poster asked if the vegan child is emaciated. He is a very healthy child. The other mom would have no reason to think he's unhealthy or needs to eat differently.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

You did the right thing. I personally would have told meat mom that she had X amount of time to tell her or I would be telling her myself, but that's just me. Either way, vegan mom needed to be told. This isn't drama really, it's about trust and respect for other people's parenting choices. Meat mama needs a lesson in boundaries.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Ya know, if it was just absent minded then I wouldn't have worried about it. People don't always think. Even if she was like "meh, one or two bites won't kill him" I probably would have rolled my eyes and minded my own business (but only because I hate conflict). BUT she was clearly on a mission. She thinks his mom is a bad mom and making bad choices and is intentionally undermining her. Not at all ok and something definitely had to be said. It was just going to continue getting worse. I wouldn't worry about her being mad. I mean heaven only knows the ways she would undermine you if your child was alone with her. What ways does she secretly think you are a bad mom? And what did she expect you to do? Side with her against Vegan mom?


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## WTHamI? (Jul 29, 2009)

I think you did the right thing too, she needed to know because obviously with the other mom's attitude that he "needed" it she was just going to continue doing it. We eat meat but there are plenty of other things we'll probably be outside the mainstream on as parents and I would definitely want to know if someone was doing something to contradict my choices for my child behind my back. Even though personally I do worry about the nutrition of kids who eat vegan diets (I was never less healthy than when I was a vegetarian, I just couldn't get enough protein that way) I would still respect the parents' decision on that since it's not my kid.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Meat Mom was completely in the wrong and she knows it and was embarrassed she got caught. You did the right thing--the only thing--and Vegan Mom is very lucky to have you as a friend.

I suspect Meat Mom's boundary issues are not limited to food, so it's probably best that you learned about her unfortunate lack of respect for others' parenting choices in such a relatively harmless way.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I applaud you for speaking up.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh my gosh, I am just livid reading your post. The other mom is angry that you told the truth to vegan mom about what she was doing with vegan mom's child? Even if were just playing in the backyard, parents have the right to know the truth. It is clear the other mom was trying to be deceitful and horrid. I hope you completely cut off that friendship and never ever leave your children alone around her ever again. You never know what she would do. Don't fool yourself in to thinking this would be an isolated incident. Maybe the next time, it will be a toddler unsupervised around water, or a little benedryl to get your child to be sleepy instead of running around. God only knows what she will do. If she was really that ok with what she was pulling, she would have had no problem with the vegan mom knowing. People like this do this all the time. I would not ever believe she is not pulling things on you with your children behind your back. Or anyone else's.

You completely did the right thing!


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## bestjob (Mar 19, 2002)

You did the right thing. If you were my child, I'd ask if you stood up for repectful behaviour.

The mum who offered the meat is now asking you to respect her actions. She's asking you to back her up on a moral issue but she acted unethically. It isn't about whether eating meat is wrong or right... it is about whether or not you can trust someone.

I feel sorry that you have to tell her she broke the bond of trust that the three moms had.


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## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

It would have been one thing if she had made a mistake and not realized that a food had something non-vegan in it...but to OFFER meat to the child?! You did the right thing by telling the mama!


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Yup, you're totally in the right and the meat mom is totally in the wrong. We eat veggie at home, and a friend we exchanged childcare with were big meat eaters. She asked me if I minded DD having some because it's hard to keep toddlers from wanting one another's food. But she asked in advance! (For the record, I said poultry and fish were okay, but no beef or pork.) DD tried some, but very little did she like.

What meat mom did is exactly like feeding a Jewish child pork. It's just morally wrong. I can't imagine how anyone could do that on purpose! If she had held out a piece, and when you called her said "oh, shoot! What was I thinking?" and got the kids' actual food, then I would probably not have told, even if the kid ate a bite of the burger first. That to me is an accident, and when it's not an anaphylactic allergy, I think saving the friendship would be more important.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 
Meat Mom was completely in the wrong and she knows it and was embarrassed she got caught.

I agree! Her embarrassment is probably what's fueling her anger, but I think you're handling it wonderfully. You didn't try to avoid her, you didn't deny it, and you explained your reasoning. Kudos!


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

Im not vegan and im po'd for that mom







Like another poster said I really dont think that its just a "little piece of meat" but a sign of a bigger problem that that mom has w/the vegan mom.

I see it as someone who has made that choice (to be vegan) is doing so for whatever reason just as I dont give my children certain foods (family allergies) and I would be LIVID if I knew someone else thought it was their right to undermine my say as their parent and give it to them anyway.

the other mom is just mad she got caught and really your a good friend for telling the vegan mom. I knwo that I would want to know if I were in that situation


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
Oh, I think another poster asked if the vegan child is emaciated. He is a very healthy child. The other mom would have no reason to think he's unhealthy or needs to eat differently.

I didnt ask, I used that as a for instance situation where perhaps someones food choices could be QUESTIONED, but still not completly defied in such a sneaky way.


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## Iucounu (Jul 25, 2010)

People are animal protein eaters by nature, and I have serious doubts that a vegan diet is best for a three-year-old. Still, I don't think you were wrong-- and like someone else pointed out, a bit of hamburger every so often is not going to really change things.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

It would be one thing for the meat mom to bring it up in a friendly "I'm concerned" sort of way. Another way totally for her to go behind her friends back and feed the child meat knowing its not something that she should be doing. I don't mind (and at times even appreciate it) when a close friend questions something I'm doing because they are worried about me/my children/whatever because even though I might not agree we are friends and they were just looking out for me.. HOWEVER, if something ever blatantly violated something they knew I believed in then I would be ticked. You don't go behind someone's back and violate their parenting philosophy like that.

OP, you were totally in the right by telling the Vegan mom about the incident. I hope that if a friend were to do something against my parenting philosophy in front of another one of my friends then my friend would have the courage to do what you did.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Here's the question to ask Meat Mom if she rants on you again:

If you didn't do anything wrong, why weren't you willing to tell Vegan Mom what you were doing yourself?


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Anyone else kind of hoping the Meat Mom (*lol* love it) wanders in here and sees how universal the opinion is that she made an unethical choice? That it's not just the OP and Vegan Mom being uptight? If Meat Mom keeps her current attitude, she's going to keep running into problems. Time for her to admit she made a mistake and change her thinking a bit.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think you did the right thing. People are sometimes vegans for moral and religious reasons and it would really tick me off if someone was actively pushing my dd away from our moral values or religion behind my back. That is not what friends do.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
Anyone else kind of hoping the Meat Mom (*lol* love it) wanders in here and sees how universal the opinion is that she made an unethical choice? That it's not just the OP and Vegan Mom being uptight? If Meat Mom keeps her current attitude, she's going to keep running into problems. Time for her to admit she made a mistake and change her thinking a bit.

Yeah really. How often does everyone in a thread agree? LOL. This is one of the most clear-cut WWYDs I've seen.


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I think that in this case it was the right thing to do. For me its comparable to a Christian friend trusting you to watch their child and you telling them there is no God. To be vegan you have a very strong beliefs against using animal products and for the woman to just disregarg that is huge.


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
What meat mom did is exactly like feeding a Jewish child pork. It's just morally wrong.

YEP.

I am in no way vegan, we love meat, but the vegans I know are, for the most part, vegans for moral/ethical reasons and strongly held beliefs.

What the "Meat Mom" (love the nicknames) did was basically an attack on someone's moral/religious belief. That's really shockingly reprehensible.

Like others said... it's not even a case of "oh, that vegan mom is silly, hamburger won't hurt," [although it probably would in a kid not used to it] it's a case of "what I say about kids goes, and their moms are wrong."

And there is no way in HELL I'd want to leave my child with someone who held that attitude.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

It couldn't have been easy to do the right thing. It's too bad that things are so uncomfortable right now, but I hope you don't feel responsible in any way for the bad feelings. That's entirely on the other mom who doesn't respect other people's choices. I really admire your actions.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
You did the right thing.









: I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to say that you did do the right thing. I wouldn't be friends with someone who did this to another child, because what *else* will they do that is against the parents wishes? And what might they do to my child?

Sometimes doing the right this is hard, but you did the right thing.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
Thank you and everyone else for responding.

She called me again today to air out her issues and I let her have her say. She says as a friend I shouldn't have "ratted" her out.

Well, I agree with everyone else, and you should point out to this woman that you wouldn't have to rat her out if she wouldn't do things she clearly knows are wrong. If she thought it was okay, she would have told vegan mom herself.


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

You did the right thing. I am a new, mostly-vegan & DH and DS are not. But my jaw dropped when I read your story. That mom was WRONG. And if she really wanted to make the case that the child needs meat or something, she should take it up with the vegan mom. To be sneaky is morally wrong, it's lazy and shows lack of character on her part. So there. 

You know (you see, now I'm thinking of another angle) there was recently a story about how most mainstream hamburg contains creepy pink slime and I think ammonia or some such thing. Whatever. But the point is, there are things out there that ARE or CAN BE harmful if they're made in a crappy way (like how almost half of tested samples of commercial high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) contained mercury), so absolutely unless she has done her homework AND talked to the mom first, she should stay the hell OUT of that other kid's dietary decisions. I feel a rant coming on. Time to go....


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I think you did the right thing too. I wouldn't trust her to watch my child, because she doesn't respect the rights of other parents.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
Anyone else kind of hoping the Meat Mom (*lol* love it) wanders in here and sees how universal the opinion is that she made an unethical choice? That it's not just the OP and Vegan Mom being uptight? If Meat Mom keeps her current attitude, she's going to keep running into problems. Time for her to admit she made a mistake and change her thinking a bit.

Eh, you're all over reacting. What Meat Mom did was A-OK.









OP, regarding drama, this mom created it all herself when she pushed the meat on your friend's child, and then complained to you for ratting her out. Sad.


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## whoanellie (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm vegetarian and so is my very healthy, organic eating, off the charts for height and weight, DD. I have been vegetarian for 18 years and I consider it akin to religion, based on my personal morals and ethics. When my daughter is old enough to weigh the facts, she can absolutle decide for herself. I understand I am in a minority and I would never criticize anyone for eating meat, but these are MY decisions for MY family.
In my view what meat mom did was akin to offering a Jewish child bacon. It was disrespectful, and futhermore, completely morally reprehensible.
You did the right thing. If she can't follow and respect simple instructions from a parent, she has no right to be watching anyone's child.

I am a very easy going person and parent but if I were vegan mom I would have seriously lost my cool.

Good for you for being a good friend.


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## bonamarq (Oct 18, 2006)

My question to YOU , OP, all the drama aside, given this type of behavior is she someone you REALLY want to be friends with? I know it's hard and we sometimes connect with other moms on alot of different levels or just really enjoy their sense of humor/company. I can sometimes compartmentalize things and maintain a friendship despite what I see as a major difference/character flaw - I hate that term b/c it sounds elitist & judgemental but in some cases it fits - case in point a friend/co-worker and I get along well and have kids the same age - but she is a terrible gossip and on top of it usually just has really nasty or complaining things to say about EVERYONE - but she's funny and often fun to be with and her son is one of the few kids my dd plays with...

This could be a thread all it's own - but what do you all think - how much 'difference in values' do you/can you tolerate?

In Meat mom's case it would be hard but I could get past it - but if SHE continues with the drama then I would consider myself better off without her in my life


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

I also agree you did the right thing. It might be different if "Meat Mom" had put down her hamburger and "Vegan Child" had come up and, of his own volition, managed to grab and eat a piece of burger before anyone could stop him.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bonamarq* 
My question to YOU , OP, all the drama aside, given this type of behavior is she someone you REALLY want to be friends with?

This could be a thread all it's own - but what do you all think - how much 'difference in values' do you/can you tolerate?


She stole my post
















You were absolutely, totally, completely in the right. You can say to her, what if Vegan family were Jewish/Muslim and she was slippin' 'em bacon on the side? No difference in the wrongness of it all.

I'm horrified. All friendly feelings towards this woman would immediately disappear. I wouldn't trust her with my own kids.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

My best friend is a vegan and though she doesn't have kids if she did I absolutely would tell her if someone did that, it's morally wrong.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

You did the right thing. A friend of mine is veggie and I respect that when I watch her kid. Occasionaly she'll ask me to offer her kids meat if they're staying over meal time (her parents do and since her son has food allergies, she's let go of some of her rules), but I do NOT do it unless she asks!


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Wow, you definitely did the right thing. I'm sorry meat mom is just not getting it, if she keeps pressing you and you want to try and explain, think of something she feels strongly about (religion, politics, etc.) and ask how she would feel if you went completely against her wishes behind her back? Not sure if this friendship will be salvageable since she isn't understanding why what she did is a big deal. Just because eating meat is not a big deal to her, it doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to others. Some folks have a harder time then others understanding that, though I think it is something we all struggle with to some extent.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent here -- just kidding.







I agree with everyone else that you totally did the right thing.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

you were right!


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## butterfly_mommy (Oct 22, 2007)

You did the right thing and you are a great friend! I am sorry there is drama.


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Did Meat Mom say anything about whether the 3 year old likes meat? If not, you could say something like "If it's any consolation, I don't think he's accepted any meat, he didn't seem very interested and I think Meat Mom would have used it as a defense of her actions if he had." to Vegan Mom. That might help smooth things over?


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## JamieB (Apr 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent here -- just kidding.







I agree with everyone else that you totally did the right thing.









LOL

You did the right thing OP! They are lucky to have a friend like you and hopefully meat mom will realize that


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I think it's funny that she's been dubbed "Meat Mom"


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Add my vote to the "you did the right thing" category.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
What meat mom did is exactly like feeding a Jewish child pork. It's just morally wrong. I can't imagine how anyone could do that on purpose! If she had held out a piece, and when you called her said "oh, shoot! What was I thinking?" and got the kids' actual food, then I would probably not have told, even if the kid ate a bite of the burger first. That to me is an accident, and when it's not an anaphylactic allergy, I think saving the friendship would be more important.


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## babygirlie (Jun 4, 2009)

Were that my child, I would have been beyond livid.


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## happy1nluv (Apr 1, 2005)

You did the right thing.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

what makes me angry OP is her reaction after you pointed out should she be feeding him meat. and even after you pointed it out she continued feeding him.

has she ever brought up her concerns about being vegan to the other mother. as much as i respect her concern for the little boys diet she has no right making the decision. the rolling of hte eyes totally shows disrespect towards the other mom's parenting rights. i mean just the fact that she is angry with you and calls you a tattler just shows what a fanatic she is - how stubborn she is.

however i dont 'blame' her for what she has done. there is soooo much misinformation in this meat based culture. to be vegan is just unimaginable by them. we rarely eat meat, and i hear this all the time. even though one is aware of people from india who have been vegetarians for generations - milk being the only animal product they eat and drink, people still dont trust that it could be a healthy choice. i just dont get that.

the best part about all this is it shows up her character. and there is no way i would trust her with respecting my wishes as a parent.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthmama369* 
Anyone else kind of hoping the Meat Mom (*lol* love it) wanders in here and sees how universal the opinion is that she made an unethical choice? That it's not just the OP and Vegan Mom being uptight? If Meat Mom keeps her current attitude, she's going to keep running into problems. Time for her to admit she made a mistake and change her thinking a bit.

So true.









I kinda want a "Meat Mom" t-shirt though. I can't stop saying it. MEAT MOM!


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Sometimes it's not easy to do the right thing, and the results aren't always pleasant - but the true mark of character is that a person does indeed do the right thing. I commend you for this, as you surely knew this wouldn't go well.

I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama. Clearly this is a load of bunk, and you did what any responsible friend would do.

What continues to strike me about this whole thing is that the Vegan Mom sent acceptable food with her child. I could see it if the other mom didn't realize something had meat in it or just didn't have anything else to feed him, but the food was already provided. That alone speaks of the dedication the Vegan Mom has to this diet, and to blatently disregard that is rude, insulting, potentially dangerous and very dishonorable. Her continued defense of her actions says that she doesn't get it and probably never will.

Speaking from experience, I doubt the 3 of you will be friends again. The Vegan Mom may move past it, but it won't be the same. This is not your fault for speaking up, but the fault of the Meat Mom who's actions and attitude were unacceptable. ((Hugs!)) I know this can't be an easy situation to be in the middle of, but you definitely did the right thing!


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

FWIW: My DH (who is a HUGE carnivore!) agrees that you're in the right.


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## smeep (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gbailey* 
The vegan mom wants nothing to do with her. She's wondering if her son was given meat before and she feels violated and is extremely hurt.

That's how I felt when I found out my sister gave DS meat. He had been vegetarian his entire life and I saw her give him chicken nuggets when he was 2 1/2. I FLIPPED out. I was absolutely hurt and felt extremely violated that they would ignore such a simple thing. Really, it takes a few SECONDS extra effort to order a kids meal with just cheese and bread, like a cheeseburger with no meat. Sometimes you have to spell it out for the people because not everyone has the brains to understand what "no meat" means, but it's not THAT hard. I still wonder if they give him any. For me it wasn't just that they gave DS something that I didn't want him to have, it was that they completely and utterly disrespected me and a choice I made as his parent.

FWIW, I think you did the right thing, 100%. That's an incredible amount of disrespect, IMO, and I would want to know if someone was doing that.


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## smeep (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!

Nor do the cases of non-vegan parents with sick, unhealthy kids make it into the news. I once watched a child whose mom fed him SO poorly (he at fast food at LEAST once a day and the rest of his meals were processed crap, he seriously ate maybe 2% fruits and his only veggies were ones I purchased myself and stuck in a blender with eggs until they were finely chopped and mixed in and then made scrambled eggs so he didn't know). This child was sick at LEAST once a month (2-3 times a month was not uncommon at all)...his whole diaper area was raw from the constant diarrhea, he was always on antibiotics for one thing or another...this poor baby was being set up for a life of sickness and/or eating disorders. It broke my heart. And of course you NEVER hear stories like that on the news because everyone who eats like that turns out "just fine."


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!

Well, the only one I've heard of is where this tiny newborn died because the parents were soooo vegan they didn't feel they should feed Baby any animal milk, including human milk. I can't remember what vegan liquid they were feeding the baby, and I can't remember why they didn't at least do something like soy formula...

But this was just a case of complete idiocy, and it's so weird how cases like this become the "standard" thing some people think of when they hear that someone is vegan. I would imagine that most vegans would be very pro-natural living and pro-breastfeeding.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Well, the only one I've heard of is where this tiny newborn died because the parents were soooo vegan they didn't feel they should feed Baby any animal milk, including human milk. I can't remember what vegan liquid they were feeding the baby, and I can't remember why they didn't at least do something like soy formula...

But this was just a case of complete idiocy, and it's so weird how cases like this become the "standard" thing some people think of when they hear that someone is vegan. I would imagine that most vegans would be very pro-natural living and pro-breastfeeding.

I think I'm thinking of the same story...they were giving the baby nothing but soy milk or something...


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

I think you did the right thing.I would want to know.I am pretty lax with restrictions,so if the kids have anyone over I ask the parents what food is ok.I also restrict tv/games that many parents would probably not allow.

I am wondering how meat mom(I see now someone coined it already!) would feel if the vegan toddler got ecoli from the meat and died.Eating meat totally changes the gut flora.

I am not a vegan/veggie but I did stop eating meat for 3 months and it TOTALLY changed my blood test results.Diet DOES affect your health.

I would probably cut my ties with the mom as I would not feel comfortable leaving my kids with her even if she did apologise.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mattemma04* 

I would probably cut my ties with the mom as I would not feel comfortable leaving my kids with her even if she did apologise.

Me too. It's unfortunate, but once trust is an issue it's really hard to get it back. I cut ties with a lovely babysitter who my kids adored...she was supposed to pick up my son from preschool and bring him home, she was really late and made an excuse when I called to find out what was taking so long. But then my son told me later that she had stopped at the McDonald's drivethrough. She didn't feed him anything (she was just starving and wanted to get lunch before coming to our place) but she took him to a location I hadn't authorized and lied about it when I called wondering where they were. If she had simply kept me in the loop it would have been OK, but once I knew about the lying and going behind my back, I could never trust her again. What if she was letting my almost 2yo cry the whole time and telling me she was fine? What if she was feeding them stuff I'd said wasn't OK? Talking on the phone the whole time and ignoring them? It opens up pandora's box of paranoia and it's hard to close it again.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
You know, i mentioned this thread to a friend (who i consider to be very intelligent) and she said "but don't you remember those kids that starved because their parents made them be vegan!?" and i vaguely did, so i looked it up. I notice that many stories of vegan children who starved their children make it into the news (and of course NONE of the thousands and thousands more who raise healthy, normal children on a vegan diet). Perhaps Meat Mom genuinely believes the child is suffering and needs the meat? Obviously that doesn't make it right that she would do it behind his mother's back!

I remember a case like that as well. It happened in NY. The mother was a vegan but I believe they were living in filth and the mom was just not feeding the children at all.

The child in question though is definitely not a victim of poor nutrition especially not from looking at him. He's a healthy child, active, etc. If I thought he was malnourished I would say something to the mother myself especially since he's left in my care on occasion and we're friends. I've never had any concerns about his health based on the way he's fed.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
Sometimes it's not easy to do the right thing, and the results aren't always pleasant - but the true mark of character is that a person does indeed do the right thing. I commend you for this, as you surely knew this wouldn't go well.

I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama. Clearly this is a load of bunk, and you did what any responsible friend would do.

What continues to strike me about this whole thing is that the Vegan Mom sent acceptable food with her child. I could see it if the other mom didn't realize something had meat in it or just didn't have anything else to feed him, but the food was already provided. That alone speaks of the dedication the Vegan Mom has to this diet, and to blatently disregard that is rude, insulting, potentially dangerous and very dishonorable. Her continued defense of her actions says that she doesn't get it and probably never will.

Speaking from experience, *I doubt the 3 of you will be friends again.* The Vegan Mom may move past it, but it won't be the same. This is not your fault for speaking up, but the fault of the Meat Mom who's actions and attitude were unacceptable. ((Hugs!)) I know this can't be an easy situation to be in the middle of, but you definitely did the right thing!

You're right and I'm not sad about it. Here's an update. Over the weekend meat mom called me. When I saw her number on the caller id I hoped she was calling to claim temporary insanity and be apologetic.

Instead she wanted to know why vegan mom won't talk to her and doesn't see the big deal. I told her that's the reason why no one is interested in talking to her and told her I can't trust someone who would do that. She made some less than kind comments about me that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation







so I said good bye and hung up.


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## BarefootScientist (Jul 24, 2007)

OP, I am sorry you had to deal with all this. Losing friendships sucks.

I of course agree that you were right to tell Vegan Mom.

And, I have to say, I don't think I have EVER seen a unanimous thread in Parenting before!


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

you were absolutely right in telling the boy's mom. a child who has been raised completely vegetarian, especially one who has been raised vegan, cannot digest meat, it can actually make the kid really, really sick depending on how much they eat. so not only was offering him hamburger disrespectful of his parents' choices, it could have been really dangerous.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Deceptive, passive aggressive, manipulative, disrespectful. Hmm, congratulations on getting a chance to drop her as a friend!

10 to 1 when she tells this story to other people she claims the 3 yo asked for the burger.


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

I also agree that you did the right thing.

A friend of mine was raised in a vegetarian household. Her mother and father were already vegetarian hippies when she was born in the early 70's. The grandparents didn't agree with their lifestyle. The grandparents secretly fed my friend meat whenever they watched her. It always made her unwell. Her parents didn't put two and two together until my friend was 3 and my friend ended up so sick that she ended up in the ER. The grandparents had fed her beef and she had a severe reaction to the antibiotics in the meat. She was OK in the end. And the tremendous guilt the grandparents felt for making the child sick stopped that behaviour. Although, they only agreed to the vegetarianism for the grandchild because of her allergy.


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## dbsam (Mar 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
I am going to disagree with the observations that Meat Mom is embarressed. People only get embarressed in situations like this if they were caught doing something they felt was wrong, and she doesn't believe that her actions were improper. I'd guess that in her mind she was doing the "right" thing to "save" this child and you ratted her out and caused the drama.










Unfortunately 'Meat Mom's' actions do not surprise me. So many people feel raising children vegan or even vegetarian is unhealthy and it is their responsibility to convert the family to become meat-eaters. My veggie children are nutritionally healthy but I still hear comments about their diet. I do not believe anyone has ever fed them meat but I have had people try to entice them to eat meat, tell them how much they are missing by not eating meat, etc. I have one friend who brings a jello dish to our house every time she is invited for dinner. I've explained the gelatin issue but she feels it is horrible my children are missing out on Jell-O!

OP...I agree w/the pp's; you did the right thing.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BarefootScientist* 
:
And, I have to say, I don't think I have EVER seen a unanimous thread in Parenting before!

















I was thinking that too....

OP, you rock. Thanks for standing up for vegan mom's right to make choices for her son.


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