# My kids are not fat!!! Rant and question!



## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok, so I am the breastfeeding counselor for our WIC office, though I don't work directly for WIC. I also spent a third of my time programming in our nutrition program last year.

With DH laid off, things are super tight so I decided to go on WIC myself. I made my appointment in a neighboring county. Not being pridefull, our WIC office is filthy and appointments take about three hours. I won't even use the office provided for me there.

DD is 2, 30 lb and 34 inches. She is still nursing on demand, which is fairly often. She is also SPD and possibly ASD and nursing is her main, and until recently, only coping mechanism.

DS is almost 5, 43 lb and 41 inches tall, though he seems thinner than DD.

We never, and I mean never eat out. I do not buy juice. They don't go to daycare. We buy only unprocessed foods. They drink 2% milk a couple of times a day. Snacks always include a piece of whole fruit or vegetable. They love hummus and crackers and eat it almost daily.

I don't really watch what they consume as far as caloric content and nutrients because I feel like they grow so much at this age that it's hard to gauge what they really need, no matter what the USDA says. I do plan their meals and my older kids and DH follow a written menu while I am at work, so I know they are getting well rounded meals and snacks.

So, at our WIC appointment, the nutritionist informs me that they are both just over the 95th percentile and she's concerned about their BMI. She starts lecturing me about the growing rate of childhood obesity. I said yes, but they are both exclusive, extended breastfeeders (DS weaned a year ago) and they've always been in the 95th percentile. So, she charts them on the WHO chart, which was better, but it didn't really change dd's numbers. Then she goes back to their BMIs. First of all, the BMI is a tool, not an absolute indicator. It's part of an entire picture, for everyone, and I doubt using it even as a tool in toddlers is even wise. I then explained where I work and their diets and that, yes I get it and no, they don't sit in front of a TV eating chips all day.

We don't even have TV, not even an antena! I was so tired of the commercials brainwashing my kids. We have a trampoline, a sandbox, bikes for everyone, balls and a huge garden all of the kids help tend. They spend most of their time outside!!! Maybe DS is that weight because of muscle. He wear a size 5T, and sometimes needs a belt. He is not overweight. DD is a little chunky, but just a little and she's TWO!!!!

I'm so offended. I know I shouldn't be. Still, it's now in their system, and that bothers me. It's a strike against my parenting, in my eyes. Anyone else have this experience? More importantly, anyone feel like they were doing the "right" things with their children's nutritional needs only to change their mind later? I'm really doubting myself now. I mean, they get treats, like ice cream and homemade coffee cakes once or twice a week. Is serving them well rounded meals enough these days??? I totally don't trust the USDA stuff I am provided with at work, so what's a mom supposed to do? Maybe 100% fresh, clean eating is the right way. What a challenge that will be!!!


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## painefaria (Jul 4, 2007)

I think that those charts should be burned... They really can not take into account ALL children. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. If they eat well, which they obviously do, get lots of excercise, which they obviously do the "chart" is wrong! A friend of mine has a son that will be 10 this year. He is at least 5'10" and 120lbs. The school nurse approached her last year and stated that he needed to lose weight. He plays sports year round (basketball and Football) and is not Obese like the nurse stated. He is all muscle. Why can't they take that into account. Keep doign what you are doing momma!


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think the charts are ridiculous. You know your children are eating healthy foods and getting plenty of exercise, so I think they are fine. I also think there's something weird about your DD being labeled 95th percentile, because my DS just turned 2 last month and is 28 1/2 pounds, and he's only 50th percentile.


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## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Sounds to me like you're doing a fab job!


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## MommyKelly (Jun 6, 2009)

Neither of them seem overweight to me. I have found sometimes some of the people at WIC to be a little "over zealous"

A year ago I took our new ds in there, he had just turned 2, and I had him a whole 2 weeks at that point. He was 49lbs! She totally went off on me, and not giving me a chance to tell her I just got custody of him. And we are fully aware he weighs too much. When I finally was able to get in this infomation, she just said "oh" all bothered.


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## neko (Jul 10, 2007)

There is a large range of normal. My LO has had an amazing growth curve and is now in the upper percentile at 19 months. 33 inches tall and over 30 lbs. I consider it partly due to her viking genes and partly due to nursing and excellent nutrition. She gets several hours of vigorous outdoor play everyday, and goes through picky food periods like other kids, but she's still so big. Some kids are truly larger, regardless of occasional snacks and home cooked meals. Some kids get the same good nutrition and are still skinny string beans. Since when did we need special diets for kids to be healthy? An old fashioned balanced diet with veggies, fruit, protein, carbs and fat should be enough for anyone without special dietary needs.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Yes, if your kids are over 80th percentile for weight (REGARDLESS of height) you will have people talk to you about the BMI. I even asked the pediatrician about this at my DD's well child visit last time (at 6). DD has been off the charts for height and consistantly at 90 to 97 percentile for weight since birth. I even brought in 6 years of little pediatrician office forms (this was a new practice). And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile." When I asked her if this was the same recommendation even for kids off the charts in height, she paused, but then admitted that they don't even consider height, it's all based on the the weight.

So honestly, I am not even sure that a lot of them are even using a real BMI index (which DOES take into consideration height). When plugged into a traditional BMI calculator, my DD's height and weight actually give her a BMI of just over 19, which is on the low side of average. And yet, every time she is weighed because of her weight percentile we still get the lecture.

I view it largely like I did the lecture about supplementing with vitamins while breastfeeding or giving iron supplements while breastfeeding (when they didn't even think a test was warranted). Generic advice, put out because the computer says that's what you do/when you do it, with no consideration for the individual case (or using outdated information). But it's still a bit on the humiliating side, because I AM fat, and I can pretty much tell what the doctor/nurse is thinking, judging my kid based on my appearance. But since I don't like to just say, "Hey, my kid doesn't have an eating disorder like I do yet, why don't you keep on harping on a kid who is normal like my dad did and let's see if SHE can develop one just like I did as a young adult?" when it's easier to just grind my teeth and smile and nod--that's just what I do.


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## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile."


By definition, that's not even statistically possible.







:


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Ds was always a pound an inch from 2 or 3 until about 5. It was right about 50% for both height and weight so that's really weird that they thought they were over weight. All I can figure is that they weren't taking height into account.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile." .

This has me laughing. Does the ped not realize that if all children stay under the 80th percentile, then the 80th becomes the 100th. By definition the 80th percentile means 80 percent weigh less than this.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Yes, if your kids are over 80th percentile for weight (REGARDLESS of height) you will have people talk to you about the BMI.

It depends on your ped. Our dd has been at the 85th percentile for height and the 90th-95th percentile for weight since birth. She was in for her 5 year old check up a couple of months ago. I could see our ped look at the 'difference' between height and weight percentiles and become momentarily concerned. Then she looked back at dd's chart and said "85th percentile for height, 90th for weight. That's where she's always been." End of story. No lectures, no dire warnings about BMI. (And my dd's diet sounds a lot less healthy than the OPs!)

Quote:

"We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile." When I asked her if this was the same recommendation even for kids off the charts in height, she paused, but then admitted that they don't even consider height, it's all based on the the weight.








: That makes NO sense whatsoever. In fact, it's statistically impossible! If everyone is below the 80th percentile, then the 80th percentile is no longer the 80th percentile, because there are no longer 20% of kids above that weight.

Height and weight need to be roughly proportional. If the child eats healthy foods and gets an hour or two of large motor movement a day (minimum), they should be fine.


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## firewoman (Feb 2, 2008)

This could have been my post! I have four children and the oldest three all are labeled overweight by those charts. The only reason our youngest hasn't been labeled yet is because she is only two years old and while she is in the 95th percentile, the ped told me that they don't worry about children under three having high BMI's. We eat very similarly to you and they are VERY healthy. Hardly ever get sick.

I just took my boys in maybe three months ago. My oldest son will be eight on September 6th and weighs 65 pounds. He is tall and lanky and his pants have to be slims or they are too big in the waist. My 4 year old (will be five in a week) weighs 40 pounds and is 40.5 inches. He is TINY. I have a few different pairs of shorts that are from Gymboree that are a size 18-24 months that he can still fit in comfortably. Both boys have ripply little abs and no extraneous fat. Unfortunately both my husband and I have extremely dense bones. They aren't big, just heavy. This is a good thing because we passed extremely stong bones onto our children. Neither of us have ever broken a bone despite some pretty big crashes! We are also heavily muscled people. Muscle weighs more than fat, hence a heavier person.

However in today's world of pediatrics, body composition is ignored. I was told simply that children with high BMI's have a higher incidence of developing diabetes. Well, they need to go back and start doing some kind of body fat testing and apply that to their protocols if they really want to find at risk kids. The way they determine if a person has a high BMI and, therefore a risk for diabetes, is by comparing height to weight. If a child's weight is at a higher percentile than their height then they are automatically labeled as OVERWEIGHT. Period. There is no actual looking at the child to see if they look fat. If they did that then there is no way that they would label my children that way.

I know it is aggravating. You just have to put it in perspective. You know your kids are fine so the WIC lady can go ahead and lecture you. You probably feed your kids a lot more healthfully than many of the children she sees coming through with "normal" BMI's.


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## bugginsmom (Aug 4, 2005)

That is ridiculous. Your children sound fine to me, and I would bet the older one is a lot of muscle. My 4.5 (5 in Oct.) ds is 49.5 inches tall and 56lbs, yet you can still see his ribs sticking out when he takes his shirt off, to the point that family commented on it at the lake last week! He is pure muscle, and I know that. The kid is as a strong as an ox, but if you charted him he is way over the 100th percentile. Seriously how is he going to get fat from eating natural foods, no junk/processed foods, and drinking water with minimal milk. Seriously? I'm sorry you were made to feel so bad. I would be angry too!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks for the support mamas. It's really tough to be on this side of things. Aside from frustrating for me, it makes me really feel for my clients, all of whom are also on WIC.

I think they are actually taking into account the mother's height and weight in the new WIC system, as she asked me and input it when she was entering each child's information. She never asked me for DH's and declined when I offered. He's 6'2", 190lb and all muscle. His waist is like 31 inches. He's a big guy but no fat at all. Our older kids (14 and 16) favor him in stature. I'm 5'2" and 160 lb. I'm by far the most overweight person in my immediate and extended family. So basing solely on me is totally unfair. She did say that kids who have overweight parents are more likely to be overweight themselves. NO WAY! Like I was friggin unaware!

One of the other reasons this bothered me so much is dd who is 16 came with to help me manage the two little ones. She overheard all of this. She already has serious weight issues. She's 5'8" and 160 lb. She is a competitive cheerleader 9 months out of the year and trains year round. She's got a frighteningly amazing body, frightening as a parent, lol. Her waist is tiny and she has awesome abs and she's got more booty than is fair! Still, the image being portrayed by EVERYONE and EVERYTHING as healthy and attractive is skinny, no curves.

DD's BMI was 19 and apparently for a toddler, this is "alarming". I can't believe that is acceptable?


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 

So, at our WIC appointment, the nutritionist informs me that they are both just over the 95th percentile and she's concerned about their BMI. She starts lecturing me about the growing rate of childhood obesity. I said yes, but they are both exclusive, extended breastfeeders (DS weaned a year ago) and they've always been in the 95th percentile. So, she charts them on the WHO chart, which was better, but it didn't really change dd's numbers. Then she goes back to their BMIs. First of all, the BMI is a tool, not an absolute indicator. It's part of an entire picture, for everyone, and I doubt using it even as a tool in toddlers is even wise. I then explained where I work and their diets and that, yes I get it and no, they don't sit in front of a TV eating chips all day.

I had a very similar post a few months ago, except the nutritionist is also the lactation consultant, she just started working with my WIC office this past spring. Anyway my DD is big and always has been, she is in the 95% also, that has been great....that is up until now that she is almost 3 the same BS about the BMI came into play. I was fully prepared at my meeting in June to have my BMI brought up(due to my being pregnant), according to that yes, I am overweight







, I think the BMI is a bit of a load of crap, but that's another vent entirely. So anyway my DD who has always been a head taller than most girls her age was all the sudden not ok because she is in the 95% and has been her whole life. Suddenly she is going to be prone to weight issues for her entire life. I then got the lecture of how I should quit giving her starches and offer her fruits and veggies instead, ummmm I do that. Then I was told with her veggies to not offer ranch dressing, ummmm I don't. It peeved the crap out of me. the worst part I think was that I've been told how awesome she's doing, but now she's fat and her life will be ruined if her BMI isn't in the normal range by age 3, which I don't exactly know what that is







. I mean someone is the biggest and someone is the smallest. It is frustrating, I also tried to not take it personally, but I did.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Yes, I know that it's impossible, but to be blunt I found that whole topic of conversation to be so jaw-droppingly ridiculous that it really wasn't worth talking about it further with her.

We never received this harassment at our former ped's office. Probably because that office had seen DD from birth until 5.5. And also, frankly, they'd seen me when I wasn't as fat as I am now.

I think if I have yet another incident with the weight percentile, I'll bring up the statistical angle just to rub it in. But weight has become yet another thing I just smile and shrug off. Luckily the new ped is extremely competant otherwise, and I can get into the office immediately. Every doctor I've ever hired has one or more things that really annoy me about them (I'm sure I annoy plenty of doctors too), so this is the one thing that mine has a burr up her butt about.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norasmomma* 
I had a very similar post a few months ago, except the nutritionist is also the lactation consultant, she just started working with my WIC office this past spring. Anyway my DD is big and always has been, she is in the 95% also, that has been great....that is up until now that she is almost 3 the same BS about the BMI came into play. I was fully prepared at my meeting in June to have my BMI brought up(due to my being pregnant), according to that yes, I am overweight







, I think the BMI is a bit of a load of crap, but that's another vent entirely. So anyway my DD who has always been a head taller than most girls her age was all the sudden not ok because she is in the 95% and has been her whole life. Suddenly she is going to be prone to weight issues for her entire life. I then got the lecture of how I should quit giving her starches and offer her fruits and veggies instead, ummmm I do that. Then I was told with her veggies to not offer ranch dressing, ummmm I don't. It peeved the crap out of me. the worst part I think was that I've been told how awesome she's doing, but now she's fat and her life will be ruined if her BMI isn't in the normal range by age 3, which I don't exactly know what that is







. I mean someone is the biggest and someone is the smallest. It is frustrating, I also tried to not take it personally, but I did.

You said it so well!!! That's part of my frustration I think, but didn't realize it. My clients who go in there with babies under the 50th percentile get told their kids are starving, they need formula!!! Those of us with chubby breastfeeders, HIGH FIVE....and now, oh no, that chubby breastfeeder, who has the nerve to go beyond a year, which is insane to most WIC people, is FAT! There's no winning. It's insanity. Thank you, I knew I would find peace for myself here. This is exactly what was upsetting me. It's just an impossible situation.

Oh, and it sucks that the nutritionist is also an LC, no offense to anyone here but I'm not an LC because the easiest route would be to become a nurse or a nutritionist, neither of which I have the desire to do. Those are almost always the only two paths into a medical facility as an LC, though there are other paths for cert. I have yet to meet an LC who is also a nutritionist who hasn't "sold out" in my eyes. I don't know if it goes back to the whole not being able to measure amounts and nurtirents or even calories or what but they all seem very rigid, which IMO, doesn't work for an LC.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Yes, if your kids are over 80th percentile for weight (REGARDLESS of height) you will have people talk to you about the BMI. I even asked the pediatrician about this at my DD's well child visit last time (at 6). DD has been off the charts for height and consistantly at 90 to 97 percentile for weight since birth. I even brought in 6 years of little pediatrician office forms (this was a new practice). *And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile."* When I asked her if this was the same recommendation even for kids off the charts in height, she paused, but then admitted that they don't even consider height, it's all based on the the weight.

So honestly, I am not even sure that a lot of them are even using a real BMI index (which DOES take into consideration height). When plugged into a traditional BMI calculator, my DD's height and weight actually give her a BMI of just over 19, which is on the low side of average. And yet, every time she is weighed because of her weight percentile we still get the lecture.

I view it largely like I did the lecture about supplementing with vitamins while breastfeeding or giving iron supplements while breastfeeding (when they didn't even think a test was warranted). Generic advice, put out because the computer says that's what you do/when you do it, with no consideration for the individual case (or using outdated information). But it's still a bit on the humiliating side, because I AM fat, and I can pretty much tell what the doctor/nurse is thinking, judging my kid based on my appearance. But since I don't like to just say, "Hey, my kid doesn't have an eating disorder like I do yet, why don't you keep on harping on a kid who is normal like my dad did and let's see if SHE can develop one just like I did as a young adult?" when it's easier to just grind my teeth and smile and nod--that's just what I do.

That (the bolded quote) is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while, and I've been listening to the health care debates on NPR.

No consideration for height? I guess mine are fatties, too, although they are in the 15th percents for weight for height.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Ignore her, get your checks, and keep doing what you've been doing.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
DS is almost 5, 43 lb and 41 inches tall, though he seems thinner than DD.

My DD is 3.75 and is the exact same weight and height. So she's 95 percentile on weight and height for her age. As long as the percentiles are the same rather than the weight one is a lot more, there's not a problem. Some children have to be 95 % just like someone has to be 5%. My DD was 33 lbs. and 36 inches when she turned 2, also 95 percentile. My DD's doctor has no problem at all with her size. I just calculated her BMI and it's too high according to this site http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/dnpabmi/ . Doesn't muscle weigh more than fat, so wouldn't a very active child have more muscle than less active children. Anyway it seems that some WIC nutritionists have to find something wrong. Don't you or your child have to have some kind of health or nutritional risk to qualify for the program? We were on WIC briefly when my DH was unemployed a couple of years ago. When looking at my DD's list of things she' had eaten in the last two days, the nutritionist said my DD hadn't had enough carbs. I didn't get a lecture or anything though. My DD was about 90% on height and weight at her birth. What matters is your DCs growth curve and activity level. Of course you know that.

Try not to let it bother you. Sorry about your negative experience. Some people are just pushy and rude.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

I'm having the same argument with my pedi. DS1 is in the 50% for height but the 80% for weight, so she claims he's overweight and that we need to reduce his tv time from two hours a day to one.

The thing is, this kid has muscle definition that DH is envious of. I even had him take his shirt off to prove that he's not fat.

Then, she had the nerve to mention that DD is only in 7%.









Both kids eat the same diet and have the same activity level. But one takes after his 5'10" dad and the other takes after her 5' mom.

We're going to change pedis during DH's open enrollment period.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

From what I understand, one of WIC's objectives is to give services (food vouchers) to children who are at risk for malnutrition. So if they can show that they are serving children who are (overweight/underweight/low blood iron, etc) it helps them prove that they are meeting their objectives. So they are very strict in their interpretations of height/weight/etc.

I don't know if that is 100% correct, but before I was a mom I worked at a family resource center where the WIC held office hours. A lot of moms left WIC appointments upset about hearing that their child was overweight or underweight, and when I mentioned this to the WIC worker, she said they needed to prove they were serving children at risk of malnourishment and so they interpreted height/weight as strictly as possible in order to do that.

HTH! Please feel free to correct me if anyone knows that this is not correct.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

There's convincing evidence that it's very unusual for mothers to perceive their obese children as obese- generally, they're described as being "about right." The centile charts are not accurate tools (and correlating the two growth curves isn't, either) but the BMI of a young child can be an accurate predictor of BMI in older children.

Also, with total seriousness, a BMI tells you nothing other than the relationship between someone's mass and their height. It does not give indications of overall health or fitness. It gives no clue as to someone's muscle mass, or body fat percentage. Neither does looking at someone- that's why we live in such a fatphobic society and why so many people on this thread seem absolutely outraged by the idea of their children being classed as one of "them." It is *just a number*. Not all of us fatsoes live on a non-stop diet of krispy kreme doughnuts and deep fried mars bars, washed down with 2l of coke, y'know?


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ProtoLawyer* 
By definition, that's not even statistically possible.







:


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
This has me laughing. Does the ped not realize that if all children stay under the 80th percentile, then the 80th becomes the 100th. By definition the 80th percentile means 80 percent weigh less than this.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
It depends on your ped. Our dd has been at the 85th percentile for height and the 90th-95th percentile for weight since birth. She was in for her 5 year old check up a couple of months ago. I could see our ped look at the 'difference' between height and weight percentiles and become momentarily concerned. Then she looked back at dd's chart and said "85th percentile for height, 90th for weight. That's where she's always been." End of story. No lectures, no dire warnings about BMI. (And my dd's diet sounds a lot less healthy than the OPs!)








: That makes NO sense whatsoever. In fact, it's statistically impossible! If everyone is below the 80th percentile, then the 80th percentile is no longer the 80th percentile, because there are no longer 20% of kids above that weight.

Height and weight need to be roughly proportional. If the child eats healthy foods and gets an hour or two of large motor movement a day (minimum), they should be fine.

My thoughts exactly! And I thought I wasn't that good at stats . ....

OP, I've not had a real lecture, but DS has always been around the 25th percentile in height and the 80th percentile in weight (for the last 2-3 years . ... he's 6 1/2 now). The doctors always look a bit concerned, but never really say anything, thankfully. That's just who he is. He's not overweight, he plays *a lot* and also has swim lessons, and we eat very very little junk food or processed food. DS loves hummus, veggies, fruit, etc.









I know it's infuriating, but you're on top of your kids health. It really doesn't matter what the WIC people think.


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

I think those charts are good for trending, in so far as that most kids maintain the same growth pattern throughout their childhood. If you see a big jump or a downward trend, then you know to look at the reasons why.

Otherwise, I think it's absurd to track BMI in children. DS was weighed and measured during a growth spurt, which put him in the "Obese" category. As soon as he grew taller, he was "No longer obese". It's ridiculous.

I understand that childhood obesity is becoming a huge issue though, so I try not to get too frustrated with it. Some of the most important times for nutrition and development are when they are small children, so it feels like a big balancing act.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

I had a WIC experience like that.

I literally offered to pull up my kid's shirt and show the nutritionist his very visible ribs.









In my case, I think they look at *me* (I am morbidly obese) and project that onto my kids (who are lean and wirey). And the charts mean very little. My youngest was 125% on the charts during his first year.







It was *all* breastmilk. And his height was proportionate to his weight, so it really didn't matter.
Mine are all close to or above 80% in both height and weight. IOW, they're tall for their age and that means "heavy" for their age as well.


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## hookahgirl (May 22, 2005)

Yep there needs to be something "wrong" to get WIC, fear of becoming obese is one of them. Its a PITA but just ignore them.


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## sparkygirl74 (Jun 1, 2005)

There was actually an article recently about BMI's and how they don't work....
http://www.lifewhile.com/health/20401501/detail.html

We get WIC and actually get a little bit of the opposite end of that talk. DD is going to be 5 in December and she is 35 lbs and 45 inches, which gives her a BMI of <5%. A PP is right in that one of the requirements of qualifying for WIC is to show that the child "needs" the healthy food because they are at some kind of risk, so I think they like to see kids like ours because it helps their numbers. For the most part I just smile, nod and answer their questions so I can get my checks and leave. Everyone at my WIC appt's is very nice though and I think that helps me take it a little better.

We have moved a few times in the last few years so we have seen 6 or 7 peds for well visits and some of them look at her records and then look at her and say what a healthy little girl she is and some jump right into the lecture about nutition and making her foods more "calorie heavy". These are also the ones who have had a problem with our vax schedule and would tell me to wean so they would eat more "real food". I have learned to just act like I am taking in the lecture and considering everything they say and find a new DR. Of course you can't do thet with WIC, lol.

I do believe there is a childhood obesity problem though. There are a lot of parents who feed their children horrible food and let them zone out in front of the TV or with video games. A lot of the time those kids will score a lower BMI than the kids playing soccer and climbing trees to eat apples because of their bone density and the fact that fat weighs less than muscle.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

This is a great thread and I hope the OP doesn't feel like I'm taking advantage for her situation by saying this, but I was going to make a similar post about navigating different sized kids in this Obesity-crazed world!

What used to be considered "baby fat" is now "regular fat". My kids are all skinny and/or terribly lean. But I would be devistated if I were told they were fat because I am fat and I would think it was automatically my fault.

When not pregnant, I am on the permanent Weight Watchers diet, but I feel I feed my family well. We eat homemade meals 95% of the time. I don't use a lot of convenience foods.

My point is that anyone who's been looked at funny or told or assumed that they're feeding their kids wrong has to feel like a punch in the stomach!


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

My kids were roughly the same sizes at those ages. We don't do well checks so I never hear from a doc about their size. But from others, I absolutely do. My youngest is big for his age and people tell me constantly. My oldest is skinny as can be and I hear about that all the time as well.

I'd let it go. You know you're doing the right thing and that charts and BMI aren't the only indicators of health.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MSUmama* 
They don't go to daycare.

I'm assuming you mentioned this because of the quality of food at some daycares, but I just have to point out that not all daycares serve unhealthy food.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

It goes both ways, both my boys are healthy and normal but they are way low in the charts (like 3%) and I get that they need supplements etc. It's really annoying.


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## maberrysx5 (May 11, 2008)

when we were on WIC, I was told that my oldest son was very short for his age. I am 5 ft tall, and son seems to take after me. I don't expect him to be a tall man, but who knows?

anyway, the nurse scared me to death. I took son to the dr. later in the week for a regular check up and asked him about it. he said that son was within "normal" limits and, while he was short for his age, it was nothing to be concerned about. from that point on, I just grit my teeth and took it when the nurse started some rant about son's height, or his sister or brother's weight.........thank goodness I don't have to do that anymore!

I feel for you.....it's tough.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

While it is true that WIC needs to provide some kind of assistance to families who are at some nutritional risk. The largest factors are income, being on state funded medical, and then nutritional risk.

My biggest problem was the way it was addressed to me, like I am a degenerate mom who just feeds her kid french fries and ranch dressing all the time, yeah we do have that once in awhile-it's called a treat.

It's funny because my last check pick-up I was supposed to talk with the same nutritionist and that day she said she didn't need to talk with me because we had talked before and I am obviously very educated on feeding my family and such







. Next month I am ready for a battle due to it being my DD's 3 year check up and who knows where she'll be at with her BMI, I find it funny that a child who grows on the same curve since birth is suddenly a marked risk for being overweight, so I guess she's been since birth?! I'm not fat phobic, I personally find all of this obsessiveness about weight rather off-putting, it's either we're obese or bombarded by actresses who are anorexic, it's all just so sad-no wonder kids grow up with body issues, because there are people making issues out of a toddler being in the 95%, ugh.

My younger sister just graduated as a nutritionist and she told me that the BMI is very flawed way to look at someone's overall health. There are people(like her friend) who has a 3% body fat, and yet because his build is entirely muscle his BMI is off the chart, he is considered obese-in fact morbidly so. She said it only really works for a tiny percentage of the population. Even she is considered overweight-and if you saw her you'd think she needs to eat another sandwich or something and put some meat on her bones. She found the statement of a small child's BMI to be ridiculous.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Wait, they were basing this just on weight %iles?

I mean, my DD was off the charts for weight from 4 months to ... well, the present! But she was off the charts for length/height as well.

There are weight for length charts, and she was never over the 75th percentile on those charts even when she was 99.999 percentile for weight.

And my ped never said a dratted thing, either. Just ocmmented on how healthy she was and how fast she was growing.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I just looked up my DD's BMI. I'm not sure if she weighs 42 or 43 pounds and I'm not sure if she's 42 or 43 inches. Anyway, I noticed that a difference of ONE pound makes the difference between "healthy" and "overweight."

BTW, she doesn't look even slightly overweight--in fact, her pants and skirts all fall off of her!


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## JavaJunkie (Jan 16, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
This has me laughing. Does the ped not realize that if all children stay under the 80th percentile, then the 80th becomes the 100th. By definition the 80th percentile means 80 percent weigh less than this.

I was chuckling, too. Do they even THINK about what comes out of their mouths sometimes? LOL


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I went through this at our ped's office recently with DD1, who's almost 5. She's always been over the 90th for height, and roughly 50th for weight. Anyway, this time around I guess she creeped up to about 75th for weight, maybe a bit higher, and is literally totally off the charts for height-- possibly 120th, maybe? Dunno. Anyway, the ped starts in (very gently, very courteously) about how it's worth keeping an eye on the weight, and checking in about TV, junk food, etc.

The whole thing was patently absurd, because when DD stands naked, you can see her hipbones and ribs sticking out. To look at her, you'd call her skinny. She's high in the percentiles because she's so tall; she'd be positively scrawny if she was 50th for weight for her age, at this height. I could tell even the ped thought it was absurd she had to go through this little spiel, but they'd made it a policy in her practice to go over this stuff with any child over around the 75th for weight.

I guess it's good that parents who need this information, and aren't getting it anywhere else, get it. If that means a few of us who really don't need it have to sit through it, that's okay with me. It doesn't hurt me any, when I know I'm doing fine. But I can see how if the person's attitude is not that polite, it might be really irritating.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

We're on it. My baby has not been in since he was newborn I think. DD and DS both had appts. recently though.

*I* have been informed that both my kids are borderline UNDERWEIGHT. DS is almost 5, needs adjustable pants or a belt, I think his weight was 38 lbs? He's 42 inches if that's what they have to be to ride the carousel at the zoo







(that's the last height thing I remember, he was exactly as tall as he had to be LOL)

DD is 2 and barely a half. I honestly can't remember if her weight was 25 or 29 lbs,







She is I think 36 inches? She is tall. EVERYONE thinks she is 3, nobody guesses that she is *barely* 2 1/2.

My kids eat a healthier-than-average diet in terms of I refuse to buy sugar-coated candy cereal. If I do buy fruit snacks, I treat them as the CANDY they are. (and I rarely buy them) I do not buy Twinkies and the like.

As far as the 'underweight' thing, they DO eat mayo on sandwiches, I serve avocado with all things Mexican, they DO eat occasional fast food meals. They eat butter on toast and love ranch as a dip to well, anything. They get ice cream when they want it. (well, not at 7 AM LOL) They eat cheese, both as a snack with crackers and on foods.

Basically I don't restrict any of their fat intake, calorie intake, etc. I also don't ENCOURAGE junk-food eating. I'm not, for example, going start buying them Twinkies instead of fruit, just because the Twinkie might put more weight on them.

AND to me your kids sound normal. I would not worry and I wouldn't stop serving things they like sometimes. I think you'd have more of a problem later if you started restricting things they like now. Don't introduce the concept of "forbidden" food!

I don't think BMI sounds like a thing to be worried about with a 2 year old either.,

I basically think the charts are garbage. With my kids, I told the WIC lady that their doctor is not worried, I don't restrict their diets in terms of amount of food or fat content, and *I* am not worried. Their dad is over 6 foot and weighs less than 175 lbs. for sure. In other words, he is tall and thin and so are my kids. (and like a friend of mine said, hmmmmm how many of them listen to their own advice and put down the doughnut?







)

The thing that did it for me on listening to WIC's advice was the day the lady pointed out in the flyer she gave me where it warned against feeding more than 6oz juice daily and then she writes on the back of it cautioning me against giving more than ELEVEN OUNCES of juice daily! ??!?!







drop

crazy stuff.

Anyway the point is take whatever WIC has to say with a grain of salt, do what you have to in order to get your checks, and know that you only have to hear it every year....


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
"We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile." When I asked her if this was the same recommendation even for kids off the charts in height, she paused, but then admitted that they don't even consider height, it's all based on the the weight.

I am afraid this is when I would get the giggles.







:

I am sure this is not at all funny in reality, I am sorry you are dealing with that









I would probably try and point out what they are saying isn't based in reality.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alyantavid* 
My kids were roughly the same sizes at those ages. We don't do well checks so I never hear from a doc about their size. But from others, I absolutely do. My youngest is big for his age and people tell me constantly. My oldest is skinny as can be and I hear about that all the time as well.

I'd let it go. You know you're doing the right thing and that charts and BMI aren't the only indicators of health.

I'm assuming you mentioned this because of the quality of food at some daycares, but I just have to point out that not all daycares serve unhealthy food.

Not at all! Some of my dearest friends are DCP and work hard to serve healthy foods. I pointed it out because I can say with confidence what they do and don't consume. Nothing more.


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Speaking to everyone who feels like there has to be something "wrong" with your child, or they have to be at some sort of risk in order to receive WIC...that's somewhat accurate but given that ALL of my clients have to be on WIC to qualify for my program and WIC money helps fund my program, and therefor we often answer the same questions on the same reports...she didn't "need" to place my children on an obesity watch list in order to qualify them.

There are lots of ways to qualify. DD has SPD and is possibly on the spectrum. Autism isn't even a health risk option in their brand new paperless enrollment software. To me, that alone just screams at how out of touch WIC is. Particularly since being on medicaid is an automatic in for WIC. Being on SSI is an automatic in for medicaid, in most kids. Being on the spectrum is often an in for SSI. Pretty direct line of service connections there, and it's not even an option. She had to health risk dd as "other".

If every child on WIC had a legitimate nutritional risk, the health care crisis would be the least of our worries.

Now that I've slept on it, I honestly think she was just assuming that because I am overweight, the kids will be. I suppose that's where we are in this country right now. Nobody wants to talk about what GMOs have done to our overall health. Nobody wants to face the fact that our food sources are more like food like substances. Organic doesn't really mean what we'd once hoped it did, aka better, healthier. The govt and it's many helping hands, like WIC, are going to find another source to blame, because Monsanto and Big Food and Pharma own Washington.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I feel for ya! I posted a rant about this last school year. DS was in kindy, and they sent home a letter _with the children_ stating their BMI and indicating if they were "underweight", "normal", "at-risk" or "obese" in black and white - based only on a very flawed test. Frankly I think the BMI calculation should be illegal because it is so inaccurate. DS came back as "at risk" and I was told to eliminate all soda (um, what soda?), etc. and that I was strongly urged to take him to the dr for an evaluation. If it hadn't been for the fact it would have embaressed him, I wanted to haul DS back to the nurse, show off his ribs that are in full view, and show her the size slim on all his pants! I also couldn't help but think that was a great way to give people body image issues and eating disorders!


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## Dahlea (May 15, 2008)

Ha, I'd hate to hear what they say about my kid, he's 10 months and 32 lbs!


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I find this conversation amusing, because 2 months ago at the WIC appt for my youngest, the nutritionist told me that the chart said that my baby was "overweight" but she wasn't worried because she was almost exclusively breastfed (10 months). When I went last week, she is perfectly fine, and she qualified my baby by using the option that she's at risk for obesity because her mother is obese. That was the only way she could give me checks.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

UGH, my question will forever be, "what if there were no







chart?"

My first one is skinny and self-weaned 3 weeks ago (two weeks before the arrival of my second)....that earned me two years of being accused of starving her for the sake of BF. This one's a chunker...I think I see what's coming now.








:


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

This is a really interesting thread.

I firmly beleive there IS an obsesity epidemic in this country and that it is impacting children. I mean recently, there was this whole vitamin D thing out there and it says that one of the contributing factors is that kids don't get enough sunlight. Turns out, "enough" is something like an hour outside A WEEK (on face and hands, without lotion, during the middle-ish parts of the day). Kids are not spending enough time outside, moving their bodies. The average child in the US watches 4 hours of TV A DAY. Kids today (as compared with 20 years ago) eat out more, eat far more junk and soda. More parents are obese and pass on eating and exersise habits to their kids. I think that it is important that childrens' weight be addressed as significant excess weight can harm body and spirit.

However, this thread is filled with the wrong ways to do it! Clearly!

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think it would probably be helpful if doctors would consider actually looking at the chart in front of them and looking at the history. However, that's not always available since most people these days have to switch providers due to lack of insurance/changing insurance/moving around, ect.

I think also that it would be nice if doctors tried (hey, we're all human) to not totally judge people who are fat. I've actually grabbed the bull by the horns on that one, and caught my doctor making those assumptions (because I came right out and said that my obesity is due to my own rather sick eating habits, and not because I've stocked our pantry and fridge with ding-dongs and moutain dew. I think I might have embarassed her, but you know--maybe she'll actually ask questions about family dinner/breakfast/lunch instead of assuming things). One of the things I've noticed, as a fat person, is not only do I have to fight for adequate and non-dismissive care for MYSELF (some doctors assume that any symptom you have has nothing to do with any illness and it's all because you're fat...which can be really dangerous when there's something else going on), I often have to fight for good care for my children (since again, the doctor looks at me, and assumes that I'm feeding my kids the same thing I used to feed myself).

Conversely, you've got some thin parents who feed their kids crap all the time. Asking about family food choices in a neutral way might be more useful. Because let's face it, probably someone who is a thin-to-normal parent may be given the benefit of the doubt if their kid looks borderline, but perhaps those families COULD benefit from nutritional counseling.

I think a better measure should be used than the weight percentile in and of itself. I am not even that opposed to using it in the context of tracking it over time (has there been a sudden jump either direction? has it been the same since birth?) and keeping in mind other factors like height and fitness tests (for older kids).

I get concerned as a parent, when the doctor goes on and on about my proportionate kid needing to watch her weight *in front of her* at 6 years old. To be blunt, while we do have a problem with obesity in this country we ALSO have a HUGE problem with eating disorders that are claiming kids younger and younger and of both genders now. I used to think that little 6 year old girls who talked about how "fat" they were or asked if they needed to go on a diet were just influenced by TV or maybe mama or daddy engaging in a little too much open diet obsession (for themselves) that the girls were mimicking. After what took place at the last well child visit, it would not surprise me if that thought could also be planted by well meaning (if tactless and slightly inappropriate) pediatricians or health workers.

I think though that this just shows how a formula (if the child is in the 75th percentile or above, then you must give this lecture) will be helpful in some cases, but can actually do harm in others.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

We were hassled a lot at the beginning about our tiny baby, and since I had some supply issues early on, I got really sensitive about anything regarding babies' weight. In particular, I hated hearing mothers boasting about how well they fed their children, showing off their 95%-er or off-the-chart baby (comparing them to mine).









On the other hand, I will never ever accept _anyone_ talking about wether or not my daughter is a healthy weight, bmi, size etc in front of her. I have struggled with my self image (weight, size, body) since I was quite young. I'm actually not that big (possibly slightly overweight at the moment in regard to bmi, but as a breastfeeding woman that doesn't really worry me), but even at my smallest, in the years before DD was born, when I was at the bottom of my "healthy weight range", I still looked like I could loose a few pounds. My body shape didn't change, even now, after birth and all, with a really flabby tum, my waist is still tiny, and at my smallest, my thighs still "stuck out" below my hips. It is just my shape, and I will probably always feel fat, as I always heard growing up that I "needed to sort out my thighs". Worries over my weight and body shape has caused a very unhealthy realationship with food, fluctuating weight, bouts of depression.

I am adamant to teach my daughter to love her body, and have a healthy relationship to food.

Slim doesn't necessarily mean healthy, or that you eat less fatty food and exercise more, just like fat or big doesn't necessaily mean unhealthy. We are just built differently. My husband is skinny. He can eat whatever he wants and is still more likely to loose weight than gain any at all. My cousin is actually of a similiar build to him, tall and skinny, as she's been since she was little. She eats, probably, twice as much as I do, loves fries, coke, chocolate and sweets and eats it all when she wants. She never exercises at all. She's not healthier than me. We're just built differently, with bodies that work differently.


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## hughlin (Oct 20, 2008)

There was an interesting piece on npr a few weeks ago http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=106268439. For me it sums it up nicely.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
This is a really interesting thread.

I firmly beleive there IS an obsesity epidemic in this country and that it is impacting children. I mean recently, there was this whole vitamin D thing out there and it says that one of the contributing factors is that kids don't get enough sunlight. Turns out, "enough" is something like an hour outside A WEEK (on face and hands, without lotion, during the middle-ish parts of the day). Kids are not spending enough time outside, moving their bodies. The average child in the US watches 4 hours of TV A DAY. Kids today (as compared with 20 years ago) eat out more, eat far more junk and soda. More parents are obese and pass on eating and exersise habits to their kids. I think that it is important that childrens' weight be addressed as significant excess weight can harm body and spirit.

However, this thread is filled with the wrong ways to do it! Clearly!

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. I guess this is aimed at most MDCers who feel they are very "in tune" with their parenting and havce no rebuttal to the "accusations".


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hughlin* 
There was an interesting piece on npr a few weeks ago http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=106268439. For me it sums it up nicely.

Points 3, 4 and 5 are exactly why Joy's PE teacher in high school was harassing her and calling me at work about Joy's weight. At 5' tall, according to the charts, she "should" have weighed 115 pds. She weighed 135 in high school. She also had 2 swimming workouts a day for a total of about 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. And frequently walked home from school after that (2.5 miles). We had to request her dr. to write a note to the PE teacher to get her to stop picking on Joy. And I had to yell at her over the phone. The girl was all muscles. And it didn't help that she had broad shoulders on top of her short frame.


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## firewoman (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
This is a really interesting thread.

I firmly beleive there IS an obsesity epidemic in this country and that it is impacting children. I mean recently, there was this whole vitamin D thing out there and it says that one of the contributing factors is that kids don't get enough sunlight. Turns out, "enough" is something like an hour outside A WEEK (on face and hands, without lotion, during the middle-ish parts of the day). Kids are not spending enough time outside, moving their bodies. The average child in the US watches 4 hours of TV A DAY. Kids today (as compared with 20 years ago) eat out more, eat far more junk and soda. More parents are obese and pass on eating and exersise habits to their kids. I think that it is important that childrens' weight be addressed as significant excess weight can harm body and spirit.

However, this thread is filled with the wrong ways to do it! Clearly!

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?

I have to disagree with you on the whole vitamin D thing. I live in SUNNY San Diego and get WAY more than an hour of sun a week unfiltered and my vitamin d was LOW. You need about 15 minutes of unfiltered sun per day with at least 80 % of your body exposed to get enough vitamin D from the sun. My kids don't usually run around playing outside in full sun mostly naked. Add to that the fact that peds want your kids slathered from head to toe with chemical sunblocks and it is no wonder that children are low in vitamin D. They aren't all TV zombies.

I agree with you that there is an issue with obesity, but I think it is WAY overblown, because just like so many of these women my kids have ribs sticking out and rippling muscles AND still are classified as overweight.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

That article was interesting...

Also, not a surprise if the different expectations of boys and girls. I have 2 sons. The youngest is a crazy chunky baby (but again, no worries- just bm and whole foods) the older is almost 5. He is a solid little guy, but because he is really strong and healthy. He eats really well (we do have some treats too, but we are talking homemade pie and ice-cream or lemonade and not twinkies and soda). He plays outside every day. He rides his bike regularly with his dad on the local trails. We don't have a tv and live 2 blocks from an amazing playground. Both dh and I exercise and also eat well. We have a garden.

But he is a solid kid and is always hovering in the 75%-80% tile (he's the same in height). He is clearly not fat.

People always COMPLIMENT me. The idea is that seeing a "sturdy and strong little boy" is good. They are always talking about "football players" and atheletes when they say it.

*sigh* I bet if he were a girl, things would be different *sigh*


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
People always COMPLIMENT me. The idea is that seeing a "sturdy and strong little boy" is good. They are always talking about "football players" and atheletes when they say it.

*sigh* I bet if he were a girl, things would be different *sigh*

Yeah. I'm glad for my children's sake that dd1 is the slimmer one, and ds2 is the heavier one. I don't think it matters at all, but I know they're both much less likely to be on the receiving end of negative commentary with the physiques they were born with, than if they were the other way around.

I also agree that a lot of assumptions are made about parents and family diets. I'm obese. But, I can remember taking ds1 and his four friends out to the park (walking there and back - probably about a km each way) for an hour or two on more than one occasion. The other parents all thought I was "brave" for taking them to the park. None of the kids were overweight, and I'm the only one of the moms who is large. But...I was the one taking them to the park, while the rest stuck them in front of a videogame? Plus, I had, and still have, the best diet of the lot. I just eat too much of it. I do have treats, and I have an intermittent (emotion based) problem with sugar, but we're not a family that lives chips, donuts and candy bars, and we don't keep pop in the house. Yet, out of the four families involved, we're the ones who would be on the receiving end of that kind of assumption, because I'm the fat mom. Ugh.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

DS was in kindy, and they sent home a letter with the children stating their BMI and indicating if they were "underweight", "normal", "at-risk" or "obese" in black and white - based only on a very flawed test.
This is one of the things that terrifies me about putting my daughter in school. That's just so damn intrusive, what gives them the right? Putting my child in a classroom does not give them any kind of ownership over her. They need to teach her to read and do math and other wise STFU and stay out of it!

My 3.5 year old IS overweight. She's also tallish and just big, but I swear she woke up on her third birthday and said, "I'm hungry" and has not been full since. I don't know what to do. She's beautiful and has a wonderful healthy attitude towards her body (in that it's just a thing she lives in, not a thing she thinks about) and food (in that when she's hungry, she eats and when she's full she stops). She eats good things, we don't have junk in the house (that she knows about, my husband has some of his junk stashed away in his office). I don't feed her to keep her entertained or force her to finish her plate. I don't punish or reward with food. I don't know what's going on and I HATE it because I've lived it. She's so happily unaware now but oh God, what will we do when she starts school?

At her last WB visit, her two year old well baby check up, her ped (who I used to love) started in on her weight and not letting her have cake and pie and soda. What? Who is feeding a two year old cake and pie and soda every day? Thank goodness she hasn't been sick yet because I just have not been able to bring myself back for her three year old WB check (um, 8 months ago). I just can NOT have her hear that kind of stuff.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

In regards to Vit. D, if you live in certain areas (such as the PacNW of the US, and other areas of similar latitude), most people are deficient in Vitamin D NOT because they are Tubby McLaziness who hates the outdoors (I'll grant you that here in Microsoftland many of us love our computer screens well enough) but because A) we get LESS light in the winter, B) it's not as strong in any season, and C) most people are going to wear a raincoat when it rains, instead of strutting around in tees and shorts when it's drizzling so we can still get our sun radiation required for Vit. D manufacture (it still works on cloudy days I understand).

I garden year round and except for hot days always forget my hat. I've got a farmer's tan well into the winter. I never had problems with vitamin D when I lived in MN, but I became so deficient here that even my allopathic non-crunchy doctor was alarmed at my deficiency level, and it took me 10 months of high dose medically supervised supplementation before I got back into normal range (with monthly blood draws, since the amount I was taking would have been dangerous to someone not deficient). 

I am a HUGE proponent of being aware of vitamin D. It probably saved my life a few years ago! HOWEVER, to just sniff that gee, ALL you have to do is be outside for a few minutes every month is patently false. I got 15-90 minuts of outside time EVERY DAY during the time I was deficient (and I can't use chemical sunscreen because my skin reacts to it). It took supplementation for a long time, now things seem to be fine with just a regular multi now that I've "caught up" again.

This illustrates part of the problem with lecturing people about how they're straying from the norm though. It's so easy for people to absorb a generalized statement and then think it applies across the board. It really doesn't. This is why I think blanket tsking sessions based on weight percentile is an atrocious idea. It causes far more problems than it solves, either by singling out MANY kids who don't have a problem and letting MANY kids who are at risk for health problems due to dietary deficiencies slip through the cracks. It's way too heavily influenced by the lecturer's biases (either fat parents are stupid, girls should be more closely monitored for Teh Fat than boys, ect.). I'm all for fighting obesity (I'm doing that on a personal level, after all!) BUT I am very very concerned about the skyrocketing rate of eating disorders just as much--and until a person can figure out how to do the former without triggering the latter (and it's not really THAT hard, if one uses an ounce of common sense and compassion and forethought) then they should keep their mouth shut.


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## Deir (Aug 19, 2005)

I am also considered almost obese according to BMI. I am hovering at or over the "normal" line. I am a professional chohreographer/performer and I wear a size 4. (well- not right now because I am pg)


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## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

At DS's 2yo WBV, he was off the chart for both height and weight. He's bigger than most 3yo I know. I was worried that I was going to get this lecture as well. All I got was a lot if very polit questions about his diet, incl. how much milk and juice he drinks. She then asked me to describe a normal day of eating for him, and about how much outside time he gets. Then she said, "I would be concerned if you were feeding him junk, but it sounds like his diet is great and he's proportional, so just keep doing what you're doing."

I miss my ped. She supported co-sleeping and BLW too, although she did lean more mainstream.

I really do think that the healthcare system SHOULD be trying to educate people about healthy habits as part of preventative medicine, not just telling people that they are overweight, etc. If you don't know anything about eating right (and that was me a few years ago), unless you are a research oriented person (and I don't know what percentage of people are, I would imagine not that many) you need your doctor or a nutritionist at school to be teaching you this stuff from the beginning. And I don't mean just "Don't eat cake every day". Good nutrition goes so much farther in depth than that.

But getting people to be healthy from day one isn't that beneficial to big pharma, so I'm probably dreaming about this actually happening.


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile." When I asked her if this was the same recommendation even for kids off the charts in height, she paused, but then admitted that they don't even consider height, it's all based on the the weight.

...where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children _are above average_."









Kind of reminds me how everybody seems to think that their own IQ is "over 100", when in reality, the definition of "100" is that half the population falls below that imaginary mark...


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
This is a really interesting thread.

I firmly beleive there IS an obsesity epidemic in this country and that it is impacting children. I mean recently, there was this whole vitamin D thing out there and it says that one of the contributing factors is that kids don't get enough sunlight. Turns out, "enough" is something like an hour outside A WEEK (on face and hands, without lotion, during the middle-ish parts of the day). Kids are not spending enough time outside, moving their bodies.

However, this thread is filled with the wrong ways to do it! Clearly!

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?

Ummm there also is a serious problem with kids not getting sun exposure due to our sun phobic society. The use of sunscreens is also leading to vitamin D deficiency.

This is the same thing that was brought up when I posted a similar thread awhile back. I personally just find it ridiculous that a child who has always been the 95% since birth is now approaching the age of 3 is all of the sudden going to be obese.


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

DS is 95 percentile in height and 75 percentile in height. He looks even skinnier than that. And at our last ped visit (new ped because we moved) I got lectured about giving my kid orange juice. It was completely obvious that this was a standard childhood obesity epidemic lecture. It really pissed me off. Was he even looking at my kid? He's not anywhere near obese. In fact, he's skinny.

So sometimes they don't even look at the numbers before they go off on the lecture. . . .


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

your children sound perfectly healthy to me some kiddies are small some are big i think centille charts a waste of time my children are on the lower end my eldest dd was sent to failiure to thrive when she was a about a year old cos between the age of 6-12 months her weight went from the 50th centile to the 9th she has stayed at that line ever since.
someone is always going to have something to say don't let it bother you your obviousley doing a great job and should well proud of your self.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

We have the opposite problem. Our kids have always been small and every time we go to WIC, they tell us about it like it's new information and want to talk to us about how to fatten them up.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
This is a really interesting thread.

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?

I think that looking at BMI as an indicator is helpful, but not as an instant diagnosis! I think that having a dialogue with the parent is useful, asking what the child eats and about activity and following up with recommendations if it seems there's a deficiency or a potential problem....


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

:


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
I think that looking at BMI as an indicator is helpful, but not as an instant diagnosis! I think that having a dialogue with the parent is useful, asking what the child eats and about activity and following up with recommendations if it seems there's a deficiency or a potential problem....

So true, and not attacking the parents like they are losers is helpful too. I was treated like all I do is let my DD eat french fries and drink ranch dressing all the time. I was told to cut her starches(she eats some but not much) and when I give her veggies not to offer a bunch of ranch dressing, or to make my own with yogurt(which I do). Then I got the don't give her juice because it is just full of empty calories, which really peeved me because I only have juice in the house most of the time because WIC _gives it to me







!!_ Also bring up what the kid does, and may look at the kid. My DD has muscle definition and has since she was a tiny baby, people used to think she was this little munchkin and then would hold her and realize that she was super strong, I don't remember how many times I heard that when she was a baby.

I guess the biggest factor are those thing, BMI is a highly flawed example of an overall picture of health. My DD can seriously run across our yard 50xs a night-I know because I make her, or when we go for a walk down our road she runs and I walk the mile to our neighbors and back. So obviously she is not out of shape. I still just don't get how a child is *supposed* to be in such bad shape when she's following the exact growth curve of her entire life







.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

The problem is that they lump everybody together. Like has been said, they don't account for genetics, muscle, patterns, etc. It's just a chart and the gov't says they have to do x,y,z for each family. I'm sure there are families who use WIC (and pedi office) who've never heard of BMI and actually NEED the lecturing about BMI. I mean, we've all seen a toddler with a 12 oz bottle or sippy cup full of apple juice, right (or is that a southern thing)?








I totally feel your frustration mamma. In fact, I posted a thread here not too long ago about DD having a "poochy" little belly that people comment on. At 4 she was like 43 lbs and 42 in., not fat, but over 18 BMI. So frustrating when she's obviously so healthy (hasn't had a sick doc visit in 2 years), happy, and extremely active- swimteam, parks, biking, soccer, etc.







: Don't change a thing!


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## mesa (Aug 19, 2006)

If it makes you feel any better, my ped just told me a couple of weeks ago that I need to watch Noah's weight. He's 6 years old, 3'9" tall, and 50 pounds. His BMI is 17.4. He is at the 16th percentile for height, and the 56th percentile for his weight.







:

When I told him that Noah is NOT fat, and I think he's just right (the kid is stocky, pure muscle), he told me (and I quote) "He has some extra in his belly and bottom"

Whatever, dude. OP, just keep on the way you have been...I've been there with the WIC counselors before, when Noah was much younger. it's stupid.


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## Right of Passage (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm disturbed that a HCP would call a 3/4/5 year old fat/obese/too big, talk about creating self image issue and self confidence issues which could lead to over eating, or under eating and potentionally damaging eating disorders.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:

And still the pediatrician said, "We're concerned about that national obesity epidemic, so the recommendation is that ALL children stay under 80th percentile."
and

Quote:

By definition, that's not even statistically possible
All children MUST be above average!!!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
This is a really interesting thread.

I firmly beleive there IS an obsesity epidemic in this country and that it is impacting children. I mean recently, there was this whole vitamin D thing out there and it says that one of the contributing factors is that kids don't get enough sunlight. Turns out, "enough" is something like an hour outside A WEEK (on face and hands, without lotion, during the middle-ish parts of the day). Kids are not spending enough time outside, moving their bodies. The average child in the US watches 4 hours of TV A DAY. Kids today (as compared with 20 years ago) eat out more, eat far more junk and soda. More parents are obese and pass on eating and exersise habits to their kids. I think that it is important that childrens' weight be addressed as significant excess weight can harm body and spirit.

However, this thread is filled with the wrong ways to do it! Clearly!

So, what DO you think should be done/monitored/discussed?

While I completely agree with you about there being an epidemic, part of what bothered me about this is that I work with the WIC clients in my own county, this was at a neighboring office. Part of my issue is, if she's treating me like this, after she knew who I am, what's she saying to people who can't/won't/don't know how to stand up for themselves and really question what's being said? I don't want to make it sound as though I think she shouldn't have said these things because I am special in some way, but she also said things to me about "other types of families" that lead me to believe she was looking at me as someone on the inside of the circle, kwim?

It made me doubt myself enough to talk to my co workers and post here. I'll be honest, we don't get out much and I see mostly babies, so I did think, maybe what I see as healthy, isn't. DD is SN so that is VERY time and energy consuming.

I hold a mother's self esteem in the highest regard. I firmly believe that good self esteem in all moms is the key to good parenting. I get irrate anytime I find out that one of my clients is questioning herslef because of something WIC said.

As far as what should be said, it's so far beyond what should be said, it's what should be done. Have any of you seen Food, Inc yet? There's a start. WIC is still giving out an enormous amount of juice, which is just stupid in my eyes. They are giving our kids the very things that are making them overweight and then yelling at us?!?!? I need WIC right now. I am feeding my family things I never would have in any other situation. Many, many moms are in this position. The conversations that need to be had need to start with policy. If the govt is going to take our money and help those that need help, shouldn't the help be truly helpful? That statement goes to so much more than just WIC, but it's a good start.

The television issue is just something I wouldn't even know how to tackle. We have four kids, two of whom are teens. They aren't freaks, they are cheerleaders and popular, Holister (bought second hand) wearing, hair straightening, texting machine teenagers. We haven't had any kind of input into our television excpet for our DVD player for almost a year. They didn't implode, neither did we. Why people think they NEED TV is totally beyond me. My biggest worry was that changing our lives in the ways that we have would cause my teenagers social pain. It hasn't. Not one bit. In fact, their friends want to know why we do what we do and are very open to it.

I absolutely believe the obesity epidemic is caused by our resistance to change. Our kids are like putty, like open minded putty. It's we parents who don't want to let go completely. We are hurting our kids in the process. We as a society don't want to give up anything, but want different results. It doesn't work that way.

At this point, I don't know if anything WIC or most peds could say would be productive. Peds generally don't fully understand or support breastfeeding, which is the first step in preventing obesity, and frankly most WIC offices don't either, in spite of WIC policy. These conversations should be had among moms. Unfortunately, women aren't good at giving/receiving critical information from other women. Sorry if that sounds rude, but we just aren't. Most moms today don't have the kind of parental support previous generations had in raising their children. Kids aren't going to grandmas to play, they are sitting in front of the tv. This is such a bigger issue than hours of play or how much high frutcose corn syrup our kids are consuming....this is a national crisis based on our lifestyles and the disconnect of families as a whole, IMO.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

When we were on WIC the only juice my DD would drink was veggie juices, V-8 included. I was relieved it was on the WIC list of juices. We weren't on WIC very long because my DH was employed again before our 2nd appointment. At least a lot of the cereals didn't have corn syrup in them.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 
This is one of the things that terrifies me about putting my daughter in school. That's just so damn intrusive, what gives them the right? Putting my child in a classroom does not give them any kind of ownership over her. They need to teach her to read and do math and other wise STFU and stay out of it!

I agree with you that the school should not be involved in this. It makes me insane when the school wants or needs to practice medicine on my child. We have a perfectly good pediatrician, thankyouverymuch.

However, this BMI thing is generally NOT the school's idea. The schools, in my state and in many states, are mandated to do this by the legislature. So, if this ticks you off as much as it ticks me off, the people to contact are your state legislators, not the school nurse.


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## soxthecatrules (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't have time right now to read all of the posts....but, IMHO...BMI charts need to be burned. I don't take them seriously at all....when I was a competitive distance runner in college I weighed an average of 132 lbs, 15% body fat, ran anywhere from 70-95 miles a week, and was a size 4....these charts would have had me as overweight b/c I'm short. I was far from it.


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## Bellabaz (Feb 27, 2008)

I know all WIC offices are different and there are good ones and bad ones. When I was on WIC I would laugh when I would hear them giving nutrional advice to people b/c out of the 6 or so workers that were there, one was a healthy looking weight. All of the others were blatantly obese.

It sounds to me like you are doing great. America is in a dismal state when it comes to nutrion and I wouldn't stress too much. I know it is insulting because they don't take into account the whole picture but its the system and thats hard to change. Maybe next time you could take in the correct way to calculate BMI and if it should be used for toddlers or not.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellabaz* 
I know all WIC offices are different and there are good ones and bad ones. When I was on WIC I would laugh when I would hear them giving nutrional advice to people b/c out of the 6 or so workers that were there, one was a healthy looking weight. All of the others were blatantly obese.

You know, I'm blatantly obese, and I have a pretty good handle on nutrition. I also have disordered eating, and emotional issues with sweets when I'm upset about something. I know most of the things I eat that contribute to my weight...but I'm still obese. Someone's size doesn't really tell you anything about their knowledge of nutrition.

I really do hate getting unsolicited dietary advice, and it's even more annoying when the people giving it jump to conclusions about what I'm already doing. Fortunately, I only have to deal with my family doctor and he's known me since I was 11 or 12 (when he joined my _old_ family doctor's practice). He's not jumping to weird conclusions about what I feed my kids, based on _my_ weight, yk? This WIC thing some of you are dealing with would drive me around the bend!


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## MSUmama (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellabaz* 
I know all WIC offices are different and there are good ones and bad ones. When I was on WIC I would laugh when I would hear them giving nutrional advice to people b/c out of the 6 or so workers that were there, one was a healthy looking weight. All of the others were blatantly obese.

It sounds to me like you are doing great. America is in a dismal state when it comes to nutrion and I wouldn't stress too much. I know it is insulting because they don't take into account the whole picture but its the system and thats hard to change. Maybe next time you could take in the correct way to calculate BMI and if it should be used for toddlers or not.

I've heard this same complaint from my own clients. The people at our local WIC office are also very obese and usually out back smoking between appointments, which is obvious not only while you are parking, but in the appointment, it can be dectected by smell quite easily. MANY people get upset at the idea that the person offered to them to provide nutrition assistance is overweight.

One of the nutrition educators in our office does all of the WIC nutrition ed for our county and honestly, she has a hard time walking because she's so overweight. She knows what she's talking about, and she's a sweet person, but people take one look at her and dismiss what she says because she's not practicing what she preaches. This is such a complex issue.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
Yes, if your kids are over 80th percentile for weight (REGARDLESS of height) you will have people talk to you about the BMI.

For what it is worth, my DS just had a checkup. He is 26m and is 38 inches tall and 34 pounds. He is somewhere in the upper 90s now and has been since 2 months. My pediatrician never even comments on his weight or height. She did say that if was drinking milk it would be fine to switch to 2%.

Actually, I take that back. She occasionally has joked that he is the biggest bf baby she has ever seen and I got the same comment with DD2 recently (3 weeks).

Sort of ironic because in my preparation for bf'ing I was armed with statistics about why DS would be small and the WHO charts should be used and how the charts were blah-blah bad for bf'd babies.


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