# "You're lucky he's easy"



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I got back from visiting family a few weeks ago, and this comment is still bothering me. My cousin was telling me this, that I was lucky that ds was so easy. All the while, she's yelling at her kids, threatening them, and just downright not being respectful to them. She was making a big deal out of things that I wouldn't make a big deal out of (her 5yo was intentionally fake burping, and she threatened to wash his mouth out with soap. I'm fairly certain it was an empty threat, and he knew it and she knew it).

Like, really, do you not see a difference between the way I discipline my ds, and the way you discipline? And there are things that I do that others wouldn't consider "easy"- I still cosleep, I do a lot of things just because ds wants to, he's not as independent as a lot of kids his age are, he wants a lot of my attention, etc. In other words, he gets his fill of attention. But it's things that I generally don't mind doing.
He makes up for it by being pretty easygoing and agreeable a lot of the time, especially when we're out visiting people.

I'll admit that his personality is a great fit for the way dp and I parent. But I will say that I'm pretty darn sure that if we were punitive, he would NOT be the easy child that he is.

Gah. I think its just so irritating that she'll never take it past that thought- that I'm lucky and just somehow got an easy child. She won't ever stop and think "huh. maybe life would be easier if I tried some of her ideas."


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

That is annoying. She is most likely quite jealous that you are doing such a good job of parenting, and is no doubt impressed with your parenting and how "well-behaved" your ds is. However, it is much easier to blame that all on some innate characteristic than actually give you credit, which would possibly in turn cause her to question her parenting. And, you never know, maybe when she's home and not feeling threatened and embarrassed and like she better make her kids "toe the line", she'll think about some of your parenting and actually incorporate it.

I think that was rude thing for her to say, but if you can, I'd take it as a compliment!


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Well, as someone with one of each...

One "easy" child and one "challenging" child -- children with whom I have used pretty much the same techniques and have recieved the same treatment....

I kind of get what she was saying.

You know what? Your child would probably not turn into a trouble maker if you were punitive. ANd her child will not suddenly become easygoing and laid back if she were less so. Having seen a fair number of very differently-parenting children by now and had two very different-temperamented children, I have to say that discipline styles do have an effect - but they are not the be-all and end-all.

If my younger child had been my first, I would have gone around thinking I was the best parent in the world and it was all because of my wonderful technique with her. But because I had my older child first, a child for whom all the positive attention, explaining, and negotiating just didn't make happy and easygoing (as a preschooler, anyway), I don't really take credit for #2's behavior.

I think its dangerous to suggest that if you do GD "perfectly", your child will automatically be an easygoing, happy little angel --- because if that's what you use to sell it to others, to convince them that nonpunitive parenting is a better choice -- then when their children *aren't* perfect little angels, they're going to _think its not working_. WHich will make them more open to the suggestions of others, the idea that maybe they should be spanking, or shaming, or any of the other tools that other people will be telling them will work.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Well, as someone with one of each...

One "easy" child and one "challenging" child -- children with whom I have used pretty much the same techniques and have recieved the same treatment....

I kind of get what she was saying.

You know what? Your child would probably not turn into a trouble maker if you were punitive. ANd her child will not suddenly become easygoing and laid back if she were less so. Having seen a fair number of very differently-parenting children by now and had two very different-temperamented children, I have to say that discipline styles do have an effect - but they are not the be-all and end-all.

If my younger child had been my first, I would have gone around thinking I was the best parent in the world and it was all because of my wonderful technique with her. But because I had my older child first, a child for whom all the positive attention, explaining, and negotiating just didn't make happy and easygoing (as a preschooler, anyway), I don't really take credit for #2's behavior.

I think its dangerous to suggest that if you do GD "perfectly", your child will automatically be an easygoing, happy little angel --- because if that's what you use to sell it to others, to convince them that nonpunitive parenting is a better choice -- then when their children *aren't* perfect little angels, they're going to _think its not working_. WHich will make them more open to the suggestions of others, the idea that maybe they should be spanking, or shaming, or any of the other tools that other people will be telling them will work.

I am really relating to what you wrote, except that my eldest was the easiest and when I had him 16 years ago I was a lot more into mainstream parenting. So with dd who is only 2.5, I really thougt things would be a cakewalk especially since I was committed to being GD... OMG, she is a challenge and that is saying it politely, I love her but she tests me on a daily basis in fact as I joke had she been the first one there really would not have been a 2nd one.

That said I have come to realize that GD is still the best way to go, the results as far as your kids bahavior depends a lot on the child. Some kids are just mellow, some are not. Kinda in a rush but hope that makes sense.

Shay


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Here is my take...

You are lucky in that you can handle your childs behavior. Whatever that behavior is, easy or hard. I notice that whenever I lose my temper with DD, people are looking at me, not at her. Kids act like kids and being able to understand that helps TREMENDOUSLY.

My cousin is very punitive, and most of the time it her behavior (the mom!) that stresses us when we are out. If a kid is blowing bubbles in their drink or gets up from the table and does xyz--it's not good manners but honestly, it's not that remarkable. But a mom losing it in public certainly makes everyone uncomfortable.

I'm also not entirely sure that my cousin's kids wouldn't become more easygoing if she were less punitive. To me, it seems like they know they only way they are listened to is if they either cry or melt down. And that the answer to whatever they ask for is always no. For little kids, they seem pretty angry to me and I think their mom's attitude behavior feeds this.

I have an "easy" kid, too. I give her a lot of credit for being a sweetheart and making mothering pretty fun--but I also think attitude influences attitude and very often, you get back what you put out there. So, ou're lucky in a lot of ways, but you're also thinking about what you are doing, and that helps, too!


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Hugs, I know what you mean.
I've been told I'm lucky I "don't have to" spank my then one y/o ds.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 

If my younger child had been my first, I would have gone around thinking I was the best parent in the world and it was all because of my wonderful technique with her. But because I had my older child first, a child for whom all the positive attention, explaining, and negotiating just didn't make happy and easygoing (as a preschooler, anyway), I don't really take credit for #2's behavior.

Well, I am a slow learner, too, I had my challenging one first







and ITA with the above.

Quote:

I think its dangerous to suggest that if you do GD "perfectly", your child will automatically be an easygoing, happy little angel --- because if that's what you use to sell it to others, to convince them that nonpunitive parenting is a better choice -- then when their children *aren't* perfect little angels, they're going to _think its not working_. WHich will make them more open to the suggestions of others, the idea that maybe they should be spanking, or shaming, or any of the other tools that other people will be telling them will work.
Excellent, excellent points. The truth is that parent/child temperament differences influence the relationhip in both directions. I also think it's important to rethink the concept of what "works" because what is usually really meant by that statement is what is intended to "work" for the parents, not the child KWIM?.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I got back from visiting family a few weeks ago, and this comment is still bothering me. My cousin was telling me this, that I was lucky that ds was so easy. All the while, she's yelling at her kids, threatening them, and just downright not being respectful to them. She was making a big deal out of things that I wouldn't make a big deal out of (her 5yo was intentionally fake burping, and she threatened to wash his mouth out with soap. I'm fairly certain it was an empty threat, and he knew it and she knew it).

Like, really, do you not see a difference between the way I discipline my ds, and the way you discipline? And there are things that I do that others wouldn't consider "easy"- I still cosleep, I do a lot of things just because ds wants to, he's not as independent as a lot of kids his age are, he wants a lot of my attention, etc. In other words, he gets his fill of attention. But it's things that I generally don't mind doing.
He makes up for it by being pretty easygoing and agreeable a lot of the time, especially when we're out visiting people.

I'll admit that his personality is a great fit for the way dp and I parent. But I will say that I'm pretty darn sure that if we were punitive, he would NOT be the easy child that he is.

Gah. I think its just so irritating that she'll never take it past that thought- that I'm lucky and just somehow got an easy child. She won't ever stop and think "huh. maybe life would be easier if I tried some of her ideas."

My son exactly! - And the comments I get all the time as well!







'I am just lucky he is easy'..... And it always does amaze me that they dont see a difference in how I treat my son to how they treat their children either!
Yes I know personality plays a factor - but so does how we 'parent' our children, otherwise it wouldnt matter as much as I feel it does!... Its very annoying, so I do feel you!!!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I do understand that his personality does play a part in this. But no one will ever convince me that my parenting has nothing to do with it, yk? I work really hard to make GD easy! lol

I also know what I saw, and her kids were most definitely "acting out" in response to her. I think they were acting like normal kids! I wouldn't have considered any of the things they did to be "difficult behavior" yk?

I was also saying, that easy is in the eye of the beholder. Its not like I have this child who just sits and looks cute all day long, and does everything my way so my life is easy. He's pretty demanding about a lot of things. He needs a lot of attention, etc. He whines and cries about things.
It's just the things that other people see, that he's the "easiest" about.


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## IdahoMom (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Well, as someone with one of each...

One "easy" child and one "challenging" child -- children with whom I have used pretty much the same techniques and have recieved the same treatment....

I kind of get what she was saying.

You know what? Your child would probably not turn into a trouble maker if you were punitive. ANd her child will not suddenly become easygoing and laid back if she were less so. Having seen a fair number of very differently-parenting children by now and had two very different-temperamented children, I have to say that discipline styles do have an effect - but they are not the be-all and end-all.

If my younger child had been my first, I would have gone around thinking I was the best parent in the world and it was all because of my wonderful technique with her. But because I had my older child first, a child for whom all the positive attention, explaining, and negotiating just didn't make happy and easygoing (as a preschooler, anyway), I don't really take credit for #2's behavior.

I think its dangerous to suggest that if you do GD "perfectly", your child will automatically be an easygoing, happy little angel --- because if that's what you use to sell it to others, to convince them that nonpunitive parenting is a better choice -- then when their children *aren't* perfect little angels, they're going to _think its not working_. WHich will make them more open to the suggestions of others, the idea that maybe they should be spanking, or shaming, or any of the other tools that other people will be telling them will work.









:


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

All of my kids have had the same preschool teachers. My first, as I've mentioned here, is my extremely challenging child. I remember sitting with the preschool teacher, hearing her say that my dd was so easy, so kind, so generous and gentle. The teacher thought she'd grow up to be "a gentle leader, like Buddha." For a moment, I was offended that the teacher had apparently forgotten which child was mine (of course, and my dd does have these wonderful qualities too-there is more to her than "challenging"). Every single year, several times, I hear these teachers say "gosh, it's so nice that you have 3 easy children," sometimes with an added "what I would give to have just _one_ easy kid." And every time I hear it, I'm a little stunned.

The thing I don't like about hearing things like this (we sometimes hear it from certain family members also) is that not only does it not at all match my experience of parenting (well, okay, I do have one very easy kid), but I feel as though comments like this are dismissive of all the hard work I have done as a parent. Not that anyone outside of me and dh knows the extent of our hard work, or how challenging (or easy) each of our children are--and I don't expect other people to know it or get it, they just don't see it because they don't live with us. So they aren't at all trying to be dismissive of my hard work, I know. But at the same time I have this automatic, visceral, annoyed reaction to being told that my kids are easy and it must be nice. There's a part of me that wants to hear not just "they're so easy" but "you are clearly a very good mom, to be raising such wonderful children" or to in some other way have my hard work acknowledged along with the admiration of how "easy" my kids are. I find myself wanting to launch into vivid, lengthy descriptions of both my childrens' behaviors/issues and my hard work in response to comments about how easy my kids are. (I don't. I smile, and I say "yeah, they're great." Because they are.)

It is nice being their mother. It is not easy.

I agree with what savithny said, too. I have one very challenging child, one very easy child, and one spirited child who falls somewhere in between easy and challenging. While I know that the effort I put in matters, and that how I interact with them can make a huge difference, it's not my parenting that makes them easy-going or challenging. Their temperament plays an enormous role. I can parent in ways that work with their temperaments, or in ways that work against their temperaments. I can't change their temperaments.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Seems we all want to have it both ways:

*In mainstream society:* when a child is meeting society's expectations for "good behaviour" we say that they are "easy" as if the parent had no effect on the child. OTOH, when a child is difficult and behaving in a way that isn't socially acceptable (even if it is age-appropriate) then the parents are criticized.

*in the GD world:* those of us with difficult kids are told that it's not us, it's their natural temperaments and we shouldn't feel guilty that we are "ruining" them. BUT then at the same time we are supposed to tell GD mamas with more "socially acceptable" children that it ISN'T about temperament but all the hard work the mother has put into it.

I've thought about this for some time as my children have gotten older and revealed their often difficult (but wonderful all the same) temperaments. Wondering how much discipline really matters...I think ultimately we have to stop thinking of GD as a way to produce a certain kind of child. Instead, perhaps we should think of it as a moral issue - it's just not right to be coercive, violent, or domineering over another human being. Perhaps GD is just _the right thing to do_ even when it is difficult and even when the results aren't immediately apparent.

_(note: I do think that GD produces children who are more "emotionally intelligent", but I think this process takes a long time and the results aren't always clearly visible until the child is much older thus giving the impression that it's not accomplishing much)_


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
I've thought about this for some time as my children have gotten older and revealed their often difficult (but wonderful all the same) temperaments. Wondering how much discipline really matters...I think ultimately we have to stop thinking of GD as a way to produce a certain kind of child. Instead, perhaps we should think of it as a moral issue - it's just not right to be coercive, violent, or domineering over another human being. Perhaps GD is just _the right thing to do_ even when it is difficult and even when the results aren't immediately apparent.

_(note: I do think that GD produces children who are more "emotionally intelligent", but I think this process takes a long time and the results aren't always clearly visible until the child is much older thus giving the impression that it's not accomplishing much)_









Well said!

I have also found myself wondering lately how much discipline matters, how much influence we actually have over how our kids behave and who they grow up to be. What I've found myself focusing on more and more lately is on the kind of relationship I want to have with my kids, and on how my interactions with them promote or prevent connection and harmony in our family. I've been thinking parenting is all about a relationship, and much less about a behavioral outcome. And when I think about that, I do think about gentle discipline as more of a moral issue-how I treat other human beings, how I treat human beings who are more vulnerable than I am, who have less experience and less power than I do, and who have feelings and needs just as I do, and who deserve the same respect and dignity every human being deserves. I also do keep in mind the idea of helping my kids learn skills (communication, emotional, social, cognitive), which is a long-term thing with few or no immediate behavioral results. And this all reminds me of the comment someone here made recently, that GD is not about producing well-behaved children but guiding children who will become well-behaved adults.

It is hard to let go of those assumptions, though, that how we parent strongly determines how our kids behave. Those thoughts creep in so automatically, which is what I was trying to convey before.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Well, I lost a long post yesterday saying that my problem with the "easy" child thing is that it's negating all the hard work that you do as a parent, and the fact that you're mindful of how you parent. And it's particularly grating from people who don't appear to be mindful of how they parent.

The problem is that we want, of course, our good qualities of our children to be due to our good parenting, and the difficult qualities to be due to natural temperament!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
_(note: I do think that GD produces children who are more "emotionally intelligent", but I think this process takes a long time and the results aren't always clearly visible until the child is much older thus giving the impression that it's not accomplishing much)_

Funny, part of my post that never got posted was a comment that while I don't take credit for my kids' relatively easy temperaments (they are relatively easy, though that doesn't meant they don't have challenges), I WILL take credit for the fact that they're getting to be pretty good at articulating their feelings and emotions. In particular for ds, who has been a bit slow at emotional development, the fact that he can now say "I am really really really really really really really really really angry at you." or "I need more attention from you" is huge. But it took me 6 1/2 years to get there.

For me, GD is less about not controlling another human and more about teaching my children the consequences of their actions and their words. I want them to be thoughtful.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
I WILL take credit for the fact that they're getting to be pretty good at articulating their feelings and emotions. In particular for ds, who has been a bit slow at emotional development, the fact that he can now say "I am really really really really really really really really really angry at you." or "I need more attention from you" is huge. But it took me 6 1/2 years to get there.









That's awesome! That's huge! And it _did_ take a lot of hard work from you to help him get there. Congratulations to you and to him! (This isn't coming off snarky is it? BTDT, I seriously know what a huge thing that is, and how much work that takes on both your parts, and I am very happy for you both.)


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## Blueena (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transylvania_mom* 
Hugs, I know what you mean.
I've been told I'm lucky I "don't have to" spank my then one y/o ds.









I've been told the same thing "you are sooo lucky your kids are so good that you don't have to spank them", um, we don't spank, "what do you mean you don't spank, you mean you haven't had to spank them right?" and its like, nooo, we made a decision before my son was born that there would be no spanking because we knew that spanking had more to do with our own frustration and little to do with what's best for the child.

And I feel like telling people that my kids are not easy, they just play easy kids in public, ha ha, no, but really I don't think there is such a thing as an easy kid, all kids have their challenges, it really is up to us to see how we react to the challenges. I mean isn't the idea of easy really in the eye of the beholder?


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

First, my apologies for posting so much. This is a fascinating topic for me at the moment.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I was also saying, that easy is in the eye of the beholder.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
Seems we all want to have it both ways:

*In mainstream society:* when a child is meeting society's expectations for "good behaviour" we say that they are "easy" as if the parent had no effect on the child. OTOH, when a child is difficult and behaving in a way that isn't socially acceptable (even if it is age-appropriate) then the parents are criticized.

*in the GD world:* those of us with difficult kids are told that it's not us, it's their natural temperaments and we shouldn't feel guilty that we are "ruining" them. BUT then at the same time we are supposed to tell GD mamas with more "socially acceptable" children that it ISN'T about temperament but all the hard work the mother has put into it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *laoxinat*
The truth is that parent/child temperament differences influence the relationhip in both directions.

I wonder if the problem is that we tend to talk about these issues as if either the parent or the child were a passive recipient: the parent a passive recipient of an easy or difficult child, and the child a passive recipient of parenting. In the GD world, we don't want to blame parents and we don't want to blame the kids either--though we will blame the kids' temperament or unmet needs, or suggest a different parental approach that might be more "effective". In the more mainstream arena, we tend to want to blame either the parent (not parenting well) or the child (choosing to misbehave, wanting to be naughty). And I think we "blame" in both the "negative connotations" way, and in the more neutral "assigning cause" kind of way.

In parenting, both parent and child are active participants (this is true of any relationship, both people are participants). Each influences the other, each responds to the other. Neither is simply a recipient. A child is not a blank slate, a parent isn't blessed with either a child who is simply easy or difficult regardless of parental actions. Not that some kids aren't born "more difficult" or "more easygoing," but that how difficult or easy-going a child is also depends on their fit with the temperaments of their parents. And parental experience counts too. My difficult child might be easy for someone else.

I'm thinking of my oldest, who is finally able to talk about her feelings more than ever before and who is starting to really develop some emotional skills-and this has dramatically improved her life and made life easier for all of us. Our therapist went on and on about how dd's improvement was due to all of our (the parents') hard work. And we did work hard, we do deserve some of that credit. But dd was no passive recipient of our hard work. She was an active participant who also worked very hard-and her improvement had, imo, at least as much to do with her efforts and her maturing as it did with whatever dh and I did. Whether things are going well or are extremely difficult, we're both active participants. Most of the time I think that it's not us, it's not our kids, it's us _and_ our kids--it's the kids' temperaments bumping up against ours, it's our actions having an effect on them, it's our perspective/understanding bumping up against their (different to some degree or in some way) experience of reality, it's their actions having an effect on us, it's our stress affecting them and their stress affecting us, our expectations matching or not matching their actual abilities, their needs conflicting with or meshing nicely with ours, and so on.

So I guess I think that parents do deserve the credit, and so do the kids. Sometimes that credit isn't wanted, but it's ours anyway.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
The problem is that we want, of course, our good qualities of our children to be due to our good parenting, and the difficult qualities to be due to natural temperament!











And now I will leave you all alone, and spare you from enduring more of my rambling thoughts.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 
In the GD world, we don't want to blame parents and we don't want to blame the kids either--though we will blame the kids' temperament or unmet needs, or suggest a different parental approach that might be more "effective". In the more mainstream arena, we tend to want to blame either the parent (not parenting well) or the child (choosing to misbehave, wanting to be naughty). And I think we "blame" in both the "negative connotations" way, and in the more neutral "assigning cause" kind of way.

To riff off your rambles...

If we're going to use the word blame, here, I have to say that I see, a lot of times, the _desire_ in the GD world to blame -- in that there is a drive to put the blame outside GD, on mainstream parents. The children of mainstream parents are "difficult" _because_ of that mainstream parenting.

I put difficult in quotes because I"m using it in the way it typically comes up: A child pitches tantrums/cries/is disrespectful/is a bully/is a picky eater/talks back ... because of mainstream discipline.

And as much as we'd all love to believe that's true, sometimes it isn't. Much of the time it isn't.'

to flitp it around a bit:

Quote:

So I guess I think that parents do deserve the credit, and so do the kids. Sometimes that credit isn't wanted, but it's ours anyway.
The very idea that there is "credit" -- for what? What are we being graded on, exactly?

If a child is *not* one who ...pitches tantrums/cries/is disrespectful/is a bully/is a picky eater/talks back...
(which, again, I'm using as the commonnly accepted sign for "you're doing the right thing")
But the parent has achieved this through spankings, do they get credit for that? Meanwhile, if the child *is* doing all that.... but is self-aware and able to discuss it all in detail because of parents who are trying to live consensually ... do those parents "get credit?" And for what? For the behavior, or the thoughts? The words or the actions?

Credit as parents is a slippery slope. I would never argue that parents actions have no consequences, because they do have vast consequences. I would never argue that children have no responsibility for the people they become or the behavior they show along the way.

But I would argue that, in the end, there's no magic way to ensure that it all "comes out right" or even a way to tell what "right" may be beyond huge brushstrokes.

And so I just caution against anyone painting ANY discipline as some kind of magic, or like some kind of diet - if you follow it to the letter 100% never diverging you will "succeed." There are so many variables, not all of them in a parent's control, and you will never, ever control every variable in order to be able to "take credit" for your children's success in life in some stars in your crown in heaven kind of way. The same, incidentally, goes for failure. Not all that goes wrong with your children will be your fault. And I see any number of MDC posts full of dread and worry that the opposite is true - everying bad can be blamed on parental (usually maternal) failure.

We need to learn to give ourselves a break.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

So many excellent posts. I just wanted to add, on the subject of GD 'results' that one of our ingenius MDC mamas recently posted something to the effect: "GD is not necessarily intended to produce well behaved children, so much as well behaved _adults_" I just love that because it tells the truth: kids will be kids, and maturation is a process that takes time, effort and patience on the part of caregivers. Well, in some cases, patience on the part of kids, as well







When mainstream America talks about their expectations for well behaved kids, it seems what they really mean is kids should act like adults. I hope this makes sense, I was at a street fair today, and I am







:


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Ok, I understand what many of you are saying- that GD doesn't = easy dc, and that personality plays a big part. I get that. I'm very aware that there are many different types of personalities, and that people who are GD can easily have more difficult dc.
But a lot of you seem to be implying that discipline doesn't really have much effect on a child's behavior. And that makes no sense to me.

I see it in ds. A couple months ago, I made a "one candy a day" limit, because I thought he was eating too much candy. After I made the limit, he started demanding his candy every day, then some. He started whining and crying to get more. We decided to stop the limit, and just not have candy in the house at all (except the chocolate chips I use for baking). 2 of the last 4 days, ds has asked for chocolate chips, I give him some, and he leaves some in the bowl. No asking for any more candy, no whining, no crying.
The fact that he was whining and crying for candy, and now is not, is directly related to our discipline, in both cases. right?
(I also have no issues seeing the relationship of my parenting to his more difficult behavior too)

Him not whining and crying about candy isn't simply because he's just really easygoing about everything. It's because we reevaluated what we were doing, and changed it. (and I know that changing it might not have made life easy peasy)

A bunch of months back, he hit me. I hit him back







. He hit me back. Of course, right? lol. (I must add that these were all taps on the head.).
When I give him information, explain my boundaries, and give him acceptable alternatives, his reaction is MUCH different than that. Sometimes, I see him thinking through acceptable alternatives instead of doing things he shouldn't be doing. So obviously, he is behaving differently in different situations, in response to how *I* act.

I was visiting a friend of mine. Her ds did something "wrong" (I didn't see it- he either hit or grabbed something I think). She sent him up to his room to sit on his bed- he went by himself, crying the whole way. (He's 3.5) She didn't explain WHY what he did was wrong, I'm not sure she even told him WHAT he did that was bad, and she definitely didn't tell him better ways to deal with his feelings in the future.
Surely, someone who explains, gives acceptable alternatives, etc, would have a different relationship with their child, which I'd have to imagine would lead to both parties reacting differently toward each other. A child with information about why something isn't ok, is more likely to internalize that, and make better choices at some point in the future.
Wouldn't it make sense that a child who felt respected and accepted would behave differently than if that same child felt coerced and no respect?

How I react to dp is quite related to how he treats me. I'm naturally a fighter in relationships. Dp and I have fought a handful of times in our 7 year relationship. That's because you can't fight with a man who doesn't give you anything to fight about. It just totally makes sense to me that people's behavior (including kids) would be affected by those around them, the information they receive, how they feel, etc etc etc.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

And ftr, I would not consider either my cousin's dc, or my friends dc to have had difficult behavior when I was there. My cousin and my friend both found their childrens' behavior difficult, and got upset about it.
All the kids were just acting like...kids. They needed a little guidance perhaps, but everything that happened seemed very much in the developmentally appropriate norm. yk?


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## kungfu_barbi (Jun 6, 2006)

this is a fascinating thread, very deep. i may come back and post more when i've had a chance to ponder a bit. however, i just want to say, in response to the quote below...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
How I react to dp is quite related to how he treats me. I'm naturally a fighter in relationships. Dp and I have fought a handful of times in our 7 year relationship. *That's because you can't fight with a man who doesn't give you anything to fight about.* It just totally makes sense to me that people's behavior (including kids) would be affected by those around them, the information they receive, how they feel, etc etc etc.


this is profound truth, with endless the life (relationship) applications!

i'm so curious, though, what do you mean "he doesn't give you anything to fight about"?

peace


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

I have to admit that this sort of offends me as I have one "easy" child and one "difficult" child. Meaning, one who challenges me at every turn and never goes with the flow. We parent them the same and we don't spank. So, I guess I can't really figure how that works.









If your cousin's statements offended you you should've told her "Actually I don't think my DC is easy. I'm just a better parent than you."


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

For me a big part of GD is getting to know your child's temperament and working with that.

My DS I've found is very stubborn when talked to when he's angry, but rather more lax when he's had a cooling off period. He doesn't do well with abrupt transitions but with preperation for them, it's suddenly no big deal... etc etc etc.

I don't think any child is "easy", sometimes the parent and child's personalities mesh better. Sometimes you have to work really hard to find balance and MAKE life easier for both parent and child.

I found there was a big transformation when I found GD and gave up my expectations of how DS _should_ be, and started working with how he _is_.

I just think it's about perception, but I also think that how we treat our children affects their behavior, for example parents who disrespect their children and get angry because their kids disrespect them. Kids truly learn by example.

Afterthought: I don't plan to parent my children "exactly the same way", our core beliefs of GD will remain intact, but we are fully prepared to be presented with a whole new human being, with a completely different temperament than DS1 when his brother arrives. We'll have to find new strategies to make his personality what ever it may be 'mesh' with the rest of the family's.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kungfu_barbi* 
i'm so curious, though, what do you mean "he doesn't give you anything to fight about"?

peace

Well, first because we agree on most of the things that I feel strongly about (discipline, racism, respect for women, kids, animals, etc etc).

But more importantly, because of the way he communicates, and how respectful he is to me. He's pretty much along the lines of non-violent communication, without ever reading it or knowing it exists.
When I say something that's kinda fight picking-y, his response just kills any fight desire I had. There's nothing to fight back when I say I'm sick of spending so much time cooking, and he says "Well, don't" and genuinely means it. I know that if I really didn't feel like cooking, he'd find some solution. If he's hungry, he won't even *ask* me to fix something for him, because he says it's not my job to feed him.

When I wanted pet rats. He told me that he *really* didn't want them, but that he knew that I was going to do what I wanted to do. I chose to get rats. They STUNK, and pee'd everywhere, and chewed a hole in the wall, and took a lot of my time. He NEVER NEVER said anything remotely like "I told you so" and never balked when I asked him to help me with them, or when he had to patch the wall. (I would SOOOO have said I told you so if the situation was reversed. lol)

He's very much not judgmental in his talk (even when he's trying to give me discipline advice, he very careful to say it in a "oh, I've noticed that when I do X, that ds responds Y, so I'm going to try Z in the future.") He's very accepting of feelings, and says that feelings are always ok.
He's never yelled at ds. Not once ever. And he spends a lot of time with him. He's never said anything negative about the fact that I have yelled (even though I can tell he's appalled by some of the things I've done). He does have some supportive comments, and some suggestions, but like I said, he's really nice about it when he says it (I think he knows I'm very sensitive about parenting).

Basically, he's just a great guy who knows how to communicate well, and that in turn makes me more receptive to his suggestions, and makes it easier for me to express myself without the sarcasm and "bite" behind it. Our relationship is not perfect, but when I talk to him about my issues, he listens and genuinely hears my concerns. He does what he can to fix things on his end.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
If your cousin's statements offended you you should've told her "Actually I don't think my DC is easy. I'm just a better parent than you."









Ah come now. I don't mean that. I'm sure there are things that she does that are better than what I do.
The way she reacted to her kids for those few hours I was there, was certainly less than ideal, and I'm fairly certain that most here would agree that threatening to wash his mouth out with soap was probably NOT the best way to respond to fake burping.

Gah. All I was saying in this thread was that I find the statement "You're lucky he's easy" to be totally dismissive of the fact that I work hard to keep our relationship working well. AND I'm talking about what I saw at my cousins house. It was plain as day that her ds continued to fake burp BECAUSE of her reaction to it.

I think there's a combination of nature and nurture working here. Not just one or the other. She seems to think that it's totally nature, that he was born "easy" and is easy no matter what parenting decisions we make. And he's not!
Some parenting decisions I make result is a decidedly less than easy child (like when he laid on the floor in the middle of the grocery store and screamed that he wanted a toy. That was definitely in response to how the entire trip was going, and my first reaction when he said he wanted a toy in the first place.) No one would have said "You're lucky he's so easy" at that particular moment. lol.

I don't know. Maybe some kids are less affected by parenting decisions. MY child is very affected by the parenting/discipline decisions we make.
My cousin's child was, in that situation, clearly affected by the parenting decisions she was making.

But I have to imagine that if most of the people here felt that their parenting/discipline decisions made no difference at all, that this board wouldn't be as popular as it is.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I think the thing to say when someone tells you that you are lucky that your child is easy is to say, "I sure am."

(I sure am lucky. I do parent carefully, but I know that I'm fortunate in the extreme in this kid.)

The next thing to say to your cousin is, "You must have a lot of fun with them. It's very advanced to know that burping trick when he's only five. Wonder if he can burp the alphabet?"










She's got to emerge from her frozen position of embarrassment about their behavior to be able to do GD. Show her you think they are wonderful.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism* 
I think the thing to say when someone tells you that you are lucky that your child is easy is to say, "I sure am."

(I sure am lucky. I do parent carefully, but I know that I'm fortunate in the extreme in this kid.)

The next thing to say to your cousin is, "You must have a lot of fun with them. It's very advanced to know that burping trick when he's only five. Wonder if he can burp the alphabet?"










She's got to emerge from her frozen position of embarrassment about their behavior to be able to do GD. Show her you think they are wonderful.

I love that.
Seriously. I just read thru entire thread and there were so many great things about it, fascinating read. But your post really resonated with me. The OP's cousin is embarrassed by her children's behaviour and she needs to get over it.
By telling her that her kids are great, you would make her feel more relaxed.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

This may be a too much of a tangent but reading some of these posts brought a couple of things to mind for me. One is that mothering is really a thankless and often unnoticed job in our culture. What we put ourselves into with so much conviction, love, energy and time usually is not recognized by anyone else.

Then related to this issue of being invisible in society, it seems that the anger swells up when our children's behavior is not related back to the enormous amount of work that goes on at home and in our mothering.

I can't say I can relate to the anger part. I often feel hugely satisfied and relieved when other people tell me how well behaved my child was with them or how lovely he can be at school with his friends and teachers. For me, this is a huge reward and it doesn't matter to me that anyone believes it has anything to do with me. We are a family and I think how we all are doing in the world in our social relationships is what's important.

It reminded me of a song by Sweet Honey In The Rock that was adapted from a poem. Whenever I hear it I cry...it's so moving and I think is so true. Our children are their own people...our job is to help guide them and, for me, help their childhood be as wonderful as possible in all of what that may encompass. Below is the song...I find it a good reminder that while this is about me, it also very much is not. So far, it's been a very humbling journey for me. I see myself grow and change as a result of being a mother and I'm so grateful for that. My child will also grow and change as a result of me. But that tendency to "take credit" for behavior is a dangerous one, IMO. The credit is very much my children's as well.









On Children

Lyrics by Khalil Gibran, Music by Ysaye M. Barnwell

Your children are not your children
They are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself
They come through you but they are not from you and though they are with you
They belong not to you
You can give them your love but not your thoughts
They have their own thoughts
You can house their bodies but not their souls
For their souls dwell in a place of tomorrow
Which you cannot visit not even in your dreams
You can strive to be like them
But you cannot make them just like you
Strive to be like them
But you cannot make them just like you


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## kikidee (Apr 15, 2007)

I haven't read all the posts, just skimmed them, and I saw a couple other people say something similar to this. I just wanted to add that to me, this is like any situation where someone says, "Oh your life is so easy" or "It must be nice to have nothing bother you..." etc. Any comment on your situation, being presumptive in saying that something is easy, can come off the wrong way. Flip that around, and what would you think if someone said "Man you have a difficult child!" That isn't okay, so why is it okay to tell someone their child is easy?

Beyond that - the main reason comments like this bother me is because it's a judgment that other moms can hear (not the case in the OP, but I'm speaking in broader terms), and it makes me uncomfortable because they may see that as saying that their kid is NOT easy, or that they haven't done a good job, or something like that. This happened to me in a Kindermusik class, where the teacher commented to me how "good" (ugh) my daughter is, and it really surprised me to hear her say that during class, and I was taken aback at how uncomfortable it made me feel. I think comparing kids can be dangerous and can create bad feelings and situations all around. I appreciate the sentiment behind it, yes my DD is usually a very even-tempered sweet child, but that just is what it is. She also has her moments, as any child does. As parents, we would like to think that our children are a product of our masterful parenting techniques, but the reality is that each child is so unique and wonderful in their own way; while I would love to take credit, the truth is that my daughter was born with the personality she has now. I hope that as time goes on, I can help her develop into a wonderful human being, and give her the tools to express herself and help her be confident in who she is -- but that is just a supporting role. I'll do my best with that, but the majority of all of this is in her hands, well and God's hands, too


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
Seems we all want to have it both ways:

*In mainstream society:* when a child is meeting society's expectations for "good behaviour" we say that they are "easy" as if the parent had no effect on the child. OTOH, when a child is difficult and behaving in a way that isn't socially acceptable (even if it is age-appropriate) then the parents are criticized.

*in the GD world:* those of us with difficult kids are told that it's not us, it's their natural temperaments and we shouldn't feel guilty that we are "ruining" them. BUT then at the same time we are supposed to tell GD mamas with more "socially acceptable" children that it ISN'T about temperament but all the hard work the mother has put into it.

I've thought about this for some time as my children have gotten older and revealed their often difficult (but wonderful all the same) temperaments. Wondering how much discipline really matters...I think ultimately we have to stop thinking of GD as a way to produce a certain kind of child. Instead, perhaps we should think of it as a moral issue - it's just not right to be coercive, violent, or domineering over another human being. Perhaps GD is just _the right thing to do_ even when it is difficult and even when the results aren't immediately apparent.

_(note: I do think that GD produces children who are more "emotionally intelligent", but I think this process takes a long time and the results aren't always clearly visible until the child is much older thus giving the impression that it's not accomplishing much)_









:


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kikidee* 
Beyond that - the main reason comments like this bother me is because it's a judgment that other moms can hear (not the case in the OP, but I'm speaking in broader terms), and it makes me uncomfortable because they may see that as saying that their kid is NOT easy, or that they haven't done a good job, or something like that.

Maybe that's my problem with her saying that. She said it like she was almost going to add "because mine are truly a pain in the butt."
1. I don't really like to compare kids IRL (here is a little bit different). It just can't be good. Especially when they can hear it.
2. Because she was contributing to the situation that she was implying was difficult.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

It's a judgement. and people don't like to be judged.

I really dislike it when people say my children are "easy" and they often do. I work like a slave, I spend hours on MDC







researching how to work out a difficult situation, I am right in there with them, my children aren't easy but they are pretty likeable. And they are cute. I guess they are easy to be around.

One thing I have learned to do is to not worry about the judgement of others when my children are "misbehaving" and I've learn to make comments as I'm yet again carrying my tantruming 2year old out of the play place "Ya think she's 2" with a wink and a laugh. I just find that lightening my mood in direct proportion to her intensity really gets me through. And hopefully that person I just commented to will be less judgemental of the next person she sees struggling as a parent.

I think your friend is commenting more on her own self-judging when she says that. And she thinks you are judging her. That's when I'd make light hearted jokes about what they are doing and I also let people know that things are standard behaviour.

Almost everything I see a child do I have seen one of my own do. So I relay that "I get it" but a lot of the reactions of the parents are not reactions I would have which is when I do the "the thing I found that worked for that" or "what worked when Sophia did that was.." to help give them tools that I have found useful through trial and error.

I think what happens with gd...and I see it now because I have older kids...because of the relationship you have cultivated with your child often you are able to relate better to them what you are expecting and because of the trust they have for you they listen to what you have to say(I'm not saying obey, I'm saying listen) even though they might say "I'm doing it this way" and you let them without judgement.

What this does is remove the power struggle. Letting children fail is empowering. It's how they learn to handle things. Depending on temperament some children learn to handle failure more quickly than others.

I firmly believe that they will all learn it faster under the gd umbrella than a punitive one though, no matter what the temperament of the child.

I know my 2year old will leave play places easier when she's older. So I don't sweat it.

I was reminded of a favourite saying of mine the other day. I don't know where I originally heard it but I hadn't used it in a long time.

"What others think of me is none of my business"

If parents take that into consideration when parenting their children in front of others things might go a little more smoothly.


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## um_hanna (Nov 3, 2004)

I think parents that dont have difficult kids dont realize the force I have to reckon with lol. I have 2 very um, strong willed spirited children







I do my best to gd, cl etc. and sometimes all my resources get depleted lol. My niece is very mellow and my sister comments all the time how she couldnt deal w/ mine lol. but I am always within human possiblility respecting their needs and space and trying to prepare them for their journeys. Just try, when you are around her to send love and peace. maybe she can eventually soften up also on her children.
Blessings!
Heather


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *um_hanna* 
I think parents that dont have difficult kids dont realize the force I have to reckon with lol. I have 2 very um, strong willed spirited children







I do my best to gd, cl etc. and sometimes all my resources get depleted lol. My niece is very mellow and my sister comments all the time how she couldnt deal w/ mine lol. but I am always within human possiblility respecting their needs and space and trying to prepare them for their journeys. Just try, when you are around her to send love and peace. maybe she can eventually soften up also on her children.
Blessings!
Heather

That's just it I think. I have a super spirited 2.5 year old. I also have a nearly 14 year old that was super spirited as well. Strong willed, defiant, busy, very physical, very very impulsive etc.

However I still get the "easy comments" because as a teen I have very little trouble with my 14 year old and while I don't get the "easy comments" so much with the little one I do get the "she's so happy" comments a lot.

However, my own kids aside I am going to give an example. My daughter's roommate has a 13 mos old. She was eating icecream out of a little plastic dish. Mom decided she was done even though baby was still "pretending" to eat the icecream, but mom was afraid it would drip and make a mess. She took the bowl and the baby had a complete and utter meltdown. Mom said "that's it, you have to learn, you can't have everything you want" and then went on to complain about how she does that every single time, 100 times a day etc. and she's so difficult.

What I would have done differently. I would have let baby have the bowl. If I was concerned about the mess I would have said "let's go wash the bowl" and maybe got her involved in cleaning up the bowl. I'm guessing she might have wanted to continue playing in the water at that point but either way she would have been able to have the bowl. Or maybe I would have switched the bowl for another clean one like it. One thing I would not have done was just take the bowl from her. So I think I would have avoided that tantrum. And if she does this kind of thing a lot her child would appear difficult even though she's really just exhibiting age appropriate behaviour to having something taken from her.

This is an example of different parenting styles. Some would say that my method pampers to the child. I say it shows respect for the child. Whatever, I likely would have avoided the tantrum which lasted for 30 minutes btw. So in an overall day I avoid tantrums and meltdowns a lot. And when the child is melting down, that's when I find them the most difficult.

Now there might be mild-mannered, easy-going children that you could take the bowl from without incident and others that would have tantrummed for an hour or gotten violent and bit mom etc. That's allowing for temperament.

Either way, all things being equal I am pretty sure that I avoid most tantrums that make my child "appear" easier. But I am doing the work. It just doesn't look like it.

Anyway I babysat the little girl above. She had one meltdown the entire day and was the happiest,easiest, busiest, little girl. She melted down at the end of the day after having too short a nap and I was changing her diaper. She was scared on the change table I think. I won't change her up there again.

I know it's easier for others to take care of a child than the mom sometimes but I also think that what is often described as "difficult behaviour" can be avoided.

I am not talking about the difficult child who melts down no matter what you do. I am talking about the regular child who melts down because it's age appropriate for him to do so.

gtg...must avoid a tantrum..lol


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## kungfu_barbi (Jun 6, 2006)

thank you for replying, deva. i didn't mean to go off on a rabbit trail, but your whole post was a beautiful tribute to your dp.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
... a great guy who *knows how to communicate* well, and that in turn makes me more receptive to his suggestions, and makes it easier for me to express myself without the sarcasm and "bite" behind it. Our relationship is not perfect, but when I talk to him about my issues, he listens and genuinely hears my concerns. He does what he can to fix things on his end.

this is the kind of person i aspire to be in all of my relationships, and it's the type of person i want my dc to be too.

peace


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh man I love this comment. My kids are "easy" because my DH and I are busting our butts taking care of them and responding to their needs!!! If only people could look behind the scenes...


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I think it is definitely a balance between nature and nurture.

And I absolutely think GD makes a difference. I do not believe it changes a child's temperament, though it can tweak it in one direction or the other within the limits set by genetics.

I think, in the moment, the way you respond can certainly affect a child's behaviour in that moment. But again that is different than temperament.

Whether it's GD or outright spanking nobody gets immediate results. I think temperament plays a role in how long it takes to see those results. A strong-willed, stubborn child will fight harder when threatened. A quieter, more peaceful child will submit more readily. With respect to GD some children will exhibit an immediate positive response to how the parent responds to a behaviour, whereas others will need to have that repeated over and over again before they are able to respond (self control, impulse control, empathy, etc).

I love what sledg wrote about GD being about *relationships*. Because ultimately our Life, every aspect of it, is about relationships with others and with ourselves. Happiness, success, all of it is about relationships.

So while one might argue that discipline style does not have much affect on temperament, and even to some degree behaviour, I think it is definitely true that discipline style has a significant affect on a child's relationships with those around him (parents and siblings in the early years) and how well the child creates and maintains relationships as a teen/adult.

(awesome thread, Becky!







)

Those are goals worth striving for, IMO!


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

When I get the 'easy' comment I try to take it as a compliment. Because when someone would say that my child was difficult I would probably take that as a critical comment. We got the comment that my DD and DS don't cry much and are easy often when were/are a baby. But I think that was also due to me nursing them on demand. When they are hungry, tired, or not feeling well, nursing always helps.
But indeed if they knew how it was at home (a lot of night parenting, cosleeping, etc.), they would not say they were easy









Carma


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Yes, allgirls. What you're saying is very similar to what I'm thinking. I'm glad I'm being understood! lol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kungfu_barbi* 
this is the kind of person i aspire to be in all of my relationships, and it's the type of person i want my dc to be too.

Me too! I'm far from it at this point. lol.

oops! Lots of posts happened before I came back to post this. (I was having server issues or something)
I have to go watch a "big bad wolf" show because it's too scary for ds to watch alone, and not watching it is evidently not an option for him. lol


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I'll admit that his personality is a great fit for the way dp and I parent. But I will say that I'm pretty darn sure that if we were punitive, he would NOT be the easy child that he is."

I agree.







I think you reap what you sow to some extent.

It's also the age-old nurture versus nature debate. How much of a child's behavior is intrinsically the child's nature and how much is coming from how the child is nurtured?

You can do what you can with GD, and it will certainly help any child, but some children respond differently.

I have a high intensity, strong willed, special needs child. My application of GD results in a different situation than when I see other parents use it...the benefits are still there...it's just different.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

This is a great thread, and I realize it's all been said and done and is now a dead thread but I did want to add something.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I think what happens with gd...and I see it now because I have older kids...because of the relationship you have cultivated with your child often you are able to relate better to them what you are expecting and because of the trust they have for you they listen to what you have to say(I'm not saying obey, I'm saying listen) even though they might say "I'm doing it this way" and you let them without judgement.

What this does is remove the power struggle. Letting children fail is empowering. It's how they learn to handle things. Depending on temperament some children learn to handle failure more quickly than others.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68* 
I think it is definitely a balance between nature and nurture.

And I absolutely think GD makes a difference. I do not believe it changes a child's temperament, though it can tweak it in one direction or the other within the limits set by genetics.

I think, in the moment, the way you respond can certainly affect a child's behaviour in that moment. But again that is different than temperament.

Whether it's GD or outright spanking nobody gets immediate results. I think temperament plays a role in how long it takes to see those results. A strong-willed, stubborn child will fight harder when threatened. A quieter, more peaceful child will submit more readily. With respect to GD some children will exhibit an immediate positive response to how the parent responds to a behaviour, whereas others will need to have that repeated over and over again before they are able to respond (self control, impulse control, empathy, etc).

Because ultimately our Life, every aspect of it, is about relationships with others and with ourselves. Happiness, success, all of it is about relationships.

So while one might argue that discipline style does not have much affect on temperament, and even to some degree behaviour, I think it is definitely true that discipline style has a significant affect on a child's relationships with those around him (parents and siblings in the early years) and how well the child creates and maintains relationships as a teen/adult.









: This (all of the above) is what I was trying to get at.

I really think that GD makes an enormous difference, or I wouldn't do it and keep trying to learn to do it better. I just think that GD makes a difference primarily with regard to the _relationship_ between me and my kids. I don't think it impacts temperament much if at all, and I think it's impact on behavior is...well:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
She took the bowl and the baby had a complete and utter meltdown. Mom said "that's it, you have to learn, you can't have everything you want" and then went on to complain about how she does that every single time, 100 times a day etc. and she's so difficult.

What I would have done differently. I would have let baby have the bowl. If I was concerned about the mess I would have said "let's go wash the bowl" and maybe got her involved in cleaning up the bowl. I'm guessing she might have wanted to continue playing in the water at that point but either way she would have been able to have the bowl. Or maybe I would have switched the bowl for another clean one like it. One thing I would not have done was just take the bowl from her. So I think I would have avoided that tantrum. And if she does this kind of thing a lot her child would appear difficult even though she's really just exhibiting age appropriate behaviour to having something taken from her.

Either way, all things being equal I am pretty sure that I avoid most tantrums that make my child "appear" easier. But I am doing the work. It just doesn't look like it.

This is a good example of the way in which I think GD affects behavior. And the way I see it, this is still all about relationship. Letting the baby keep the bowl or switching bowls shows respect for the baby-for her feelings, her drive to explore the bowl, her ability to understand. This isn't changing baby's behavior. This is working in relationship with baby, this is creating a particular quality of relationship between parent and baby.

For me, at this point in my parenting journey, the idea of GD is to see past the behavior to the person. To see the feelings, needs, wants, and abilities that led to the behavior. And then to respond to the whole person, not just the behavior. GD to me means nurturing a relationship with my kids that allows us to better connect, to better work together, to communicate better. It helps us build trust, and it helps us live in harmony with each other while my kids try out behaviors and make mistakes and do all those messy things that are part of growing up. Sometimes it means learning to relate to my kids in new ways, but it always comes down to relationship. There is a quality of relationship that allows us to work together for change (however slowly that change may come) or meeting everyone's needs and allows each of us to give freely, and for me creating this quality of relationship is what GD is about.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

I got a real earful on this forum when I suggested that my daughter's "easy" behavior was due to my parenting style.
I really thought it was, but apparently, I was wrong


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Hey! I got told I was lucky DD (3) was easy yesterday morning--I brought her to a fundraiser event and she helped out. I kind of giggled, thinking of this thread. Then we went out for chinese food last night, and her behavior was atrocious and I got the stinkeye from the table next to us! So, we hit all the bases in one day.

I agree with this, from Sledg



_Quote:_

For me, at this point in my parenting journey, the idea of GD is to see past the behavior to the person. To see the feelings, needs, wants, and abilities that led to the behavior. And then to respond to the whole person, not just the behavior. GD to me means nurturing a relationship with my kids that allows us to better connect, to better work together, to communicate better. It helps us build trust, and it helps us live in harmony with each other while my kids try out behaviors and make mistakes and do all those messy things that are part of growing up. Sometimes it means learning to relate to my kids in new ways, but it always comes down to relationship. There is a quality of relationship that allows us to work together for change (however slowly that change may come) or meeting everyone's needs and allows each of us to give freely, and for me creating this quality of relationship is what GD is about


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

You know I have been thinking about this a bit - the whole nature/nurture thing.

In the way of 'nature' - I think we need to look a bit deeper.

I have friends who truely believe that my sons nature is to be 'easy' - and their childrens nature is to be manipulative and seek out, desire, enjoy even - hurting others.

What I am trying to say - what my point is...is that yes, there is both nature and nurture to a child. Some of that 'nature' they are born with. But some nature is also learned and then some 'nature' I think is due to circumstances. Both the learned nature and cirucmstance nature can also be connected very much with how we 'parent' our child/children. The kind we are born with is something we do not have control over - but I think people are getting some of that nature mixed up with other types of nature...becuase I do not believe for a minute that a child is just born 'manipulative' - that is a learned behaviour.

I know my sons nature is 'sensitive' - I suppose thats the best way to round up all who he is 'nature' wise. So that does make 'parenting' him more easy for me but life could be hell for him if I didnt respect him and his needs and you would probably be able to see this through his behaviour and think he wasnt so 'easy' after all.

Also, what is 'easy' is going to be different for everyone. Its like when people ask you if your newborn baby is 'good' - what they mean is if they are quiet and sleep through the night! lol.... When people say 'easy' what do they really mean? Perhaps even how we as the parents, interact with our child can make them look 'easy' or 'hard' as well? If I were stressed and flustered all the time, I bet my son wouldnt look so 'easy' - because people make assumptions based on what they see, if you didnt know my son or what his behaviour was but I gave off the appearance of him being 'hard' you might think so too.

From my own personal expeience, I have yet to see a child who isnt 'easy'...even if their parents think otherwise, but I know this has everythign to do with how I interact with them and if they lost my respect and trust, they would act differently towards me as well.

The way we parent our children does matter. But I think someone on the first page summed it up well saying you cant win either way because if a chid is 'easy' its automatically assumed down to their nature and the parent had no hand in that and if a child is 'hard' its automatically assumed its down to their nurture nevermind their nature...etc etc.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Ann...good points. Especially the last part which I think is why for me one of the most important things I have learned about parenting is to not worry about where we are, what others think etc. but to always focus on what the child needs at that moment. Because the moment you worry about the audience then your behaviour becomes different...like some people are when they realise they are on video camera..lol.

If you nurture a child's nature I think you will get the best out of any child.

and completely off topic but I have to say..I am so completely excited because Sledg quoted me







:


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

well with my first I was more mainstream, and he was easy.... with my second I had learned a lot about GD and was determined to do things in a more gentle way, and she was sooooooooooo hard!!!

I used to think I was a perfect parent until I had her. Boy have a learned a lot about being a parent and being tested with her.. she has taught me so much and humbled me... My mainstream ways just made things so much harder to parent her, so she almost forced me to research more about GD and learn more and change my parenting....

I think I get what you are saying, but I think that temperament does play a part, and we dont always know what its like for THAT parent and THAT child. Instead of judging we need to be good examples and offer helpful advice.
It works. I have a friend with a 4 year old and by example she is finally taking up some of my ways and advice with him.

And its so true that often times parents are so harsh in public bc they fear what others think, I try very hard to offer kind words to a stressed out mom.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I get told my son is easy and actually... he is in a lot of ways.

So I was thinking about why it might be that it upset you to be told that and why it doesn't upset me. Maybe it's that you do work harder than I do, or the relationship btw you and the person who said it or a variety of things. But I'm guessing a little bit that it might be because you were kind of judging her (not necessarily a bad thing to exercise judgment in your mind) against your methods.

When we judge other people's parenting I think we tend to get sensitive about getting our own "rightness" and effort recognized.

Anyways I just wanted to share that I don't think a statement about ease is necessarily an insult to your effort.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
Also, what is 'easy' is going to be different for everyone. Its like when people ask you if your newborn baby is 'good' - what they mean is if they are quiet and sleep through the night! lol.... When people say 'easy' what do they really mean? Perhaps even how we as the parents, interact with our child can make them look 'easy' or 'hard' as well?

Yeah, I imagine some people would have thought ds was easy as a baby. Sure, he was happy most of the time, and rarely cried. But he needed to be held ALL THE TIME! When we were visiting other people, he was constantly held, so he seemed easy. lol.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think you should read to much into the "easy" comments. Most children are "easy" when they are three and in a new environment. If you went there everyday and your child was comfortable in that environment she probably wouldn't have said that. I also don't think you should judge her parenting based on what you saw when you were visiting. Kids love to show off for relatives and new people in the most disgusting ways they use to show off for friends and this often throws parents off and a lot of parents tend to feel self-conscious about their parenting and try to come of as more in charge than they normally feel the need to be when they have guests judging them. Probably she could see that you were judging her but not in what direction the judgement was going and that added to her nervousness and threats. She may have just told you your child was easy because she wanted the attention off her children and she needed that excuse to make herself feel better as a parent.

I also agree with the other posters who said basically that if your child was difficult you would be incredibly pissed off if someone told you your child was difficult and it was your fault and you would find support here to absolve you from that blame.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Ugh, I get this all the time, mostly from my MIL. Since he was a newborn she's talked about how calm and sweet and "easy" he is. The truth is he was borderline colicky as an infant and needed to nurse or be held 24/7. I met his needs and had him on the boob or in a sling all the time, which is why he hardly ever cried. If I were a different or less responsive or lazier mom, I think he would have ended up much more high-needs and hard to deal with today. And as a toddler, I also feel like the way DH and I have raised him has greatly contributed to his generally agreeable personality. It's annoying not to have that recognized.

Apparently this is part of the deal with motherhood though. Any undesirable traits are your fault; any good traits are a gift from heaven for which you should be eternally grateful.


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## That Is Nice (Jul 27, 2007)

As for nurture versus nature, I think it is highly dependent on the child. I am a huge supporter of GD, and I really, really want it to work for my child, but I am being tested again and again and again.

My child is high energy, high intensity, high needs. I am fairly well read on GD and I try very hard to use suggestions I read in books, but not much seems to work.

My husband uses more traditional means of discipline (somewhat harsh) that I don't fully approve of. However, the point gets across better and has more tangible results. Honestly, I think it is less discipline and more my child being scared of consequences.









Also, my child sees several professionals and they do not think the GD approach will work with my child.







They encourage gentle discipline, but they accurately identified that we have other issues impacting behavior that make it very challenging.

So, while I think the nurture aspect certainly makes a huge difference, I really see that nature may play an even bigger role.


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