# Difficult situation at daycare re: inappropriate touching



## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

This is a tough one to explain and I worry that I may come out sounding less politically correct than I want to. Please know ahead of time that I realize this is a complicated situation, and there isn't a simple answer -- what I'm looking for is some opinions on how you all would handle it.

DD is almost three and goes to a large day care center 2 days a week for about 10 hours each day. We like the place a lot; even though it's big, she is in a class room with two wonderful loving teachers and about 15 kids, has a great time, they're very gentle and accomodating and attentive. We are very happy with the care and attention she gets there, and she seems to have fun. She absolutely loves her teachers and talks about them all the time.

There is a little boy there who is usually there early in the morning for about 30 minutes and then again from 3:30pm until the end of the day (he spends the middle of the day at a special school of some kind)...we'll call him Joe. Joe is a special needs child; I believe he's about 3.5. I don't know specifically what his developmental issues are, but just from observation, I can tell that he has a hard time with impulse control and that he is just barely able to communicate verbally. He has to be watched constantly because he will grab food out of other children's hands or off their plates, pull things from their pockets, etc. He also has very little sense of personal space, and will get right into people's faces, grab hair, and pull on hands. DD is clearly scared of him and clutches her breakfast to her when she sees him coming. We've talked wit her in the past about how Joe has a harder time remembering to do certain things, and that she has to be a little more patient with him, but that if he hurts her or doesn't listen when she asks him nicely to stop something, she should get a teacher right away.

This last couple of weeks, dd has been potty learning pretty well. She's been going to school in underwear. Around the same time, she started to cry HARD every morning when I dropped her off. I attributed it to the stress of this developmental leap, and just kept assuring her of the fact that we would come back and get her in the afternoon, etc.

This morning, as she was getting dressed, she said, "I don't want Joe to take my underwear."

DH and I tried not to overreact. I said, "Did Joe take your underwear? That's pretty silly! That's YOUR underwear."

She said, "He tries to take my underwear away and touch me!"

I said, "Wow. How does that make you feel?"

She said, "It makes me feel very angry!"

I said, "Well, what do we say when someone tries to touch us somewhere we don't want them to touch us?"

She said, "That's MY body! You can't touch my body! Go away!" (which is what I taught her a few months ago, without ever discussing any specific body part should be off limits -- just whatever she didn't like).

I said that was right, and that Joe was not allowed to take her underwear, and that if she asked him to stop and he didn't, she should go get a teacher. She repeated, "I don't like Joe to touch me under my underwear."

I reiterated that it was NOT ok for anyone to touch her where she didn't want to be touched, and I promised I would talk to her teachers this morning to ask them to watch Joe carefully and make sure he didn't take her underwear. And when we got to school, I set DD up eating her breakfast at the table and told her I was going to talk to her teacher about her underwear being just for her. She watched as I went over to her teacher and talked about it quietly. Joe was not there this morning. Before I left DD (howling in her teacher's arms), I pointed out that Joe was not there today. The teacher said she'd be sure to tell the other teachers what DD said, and to watch Joe when all the kids were together in the bathroom (they sometimes go in little clusters to the bathroom, where there are 6 little potties).

Add to the difficulty that Joe is the son of the director of the center, who is currently out on maternity leave.

My question is: have I done everything I should have? Should I do more? Should I be asking dd regularly if Joe is still trying to take her underwear? Am I overreacting? underreacting? WWYD?


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## hallesmom (Oct 27, 2003)

I didn't want to read and not post-but I don't know if my contribution will be so helpful.

I'm very protective about these sort of issues, for personal reasons-and I probably would've freaked out on the center and pulled her-
I think you handled it very well, with your daughter and center-but I'd probably take it a step futher if you are going to leave her there and not count on just the one teacher you talked to to relay the message, you know? Go to the assistant director/etc

Keep us updated.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Set up a meeting with the director and the teachers. That is absolutely not ok. I don't think the boy is being malicious, but may need more attention than such a setting can give.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyV*
Set up a meeting with the director and the teachers. That is absolutely not ok. I don't think the boy is being malicious, but may need more attention than such a setting can give.


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Hmm... Sounded pretty traumatic for your dd!

I would definately make a big deal out of it with the center.

(Well, actually I would probably pull my dd out- but I hate confrontation.)

The thing is that your dd is really freaked- and for good reason. You definately need to address what it is she needs in order to feel safe again, whether that's taking some time off from that daycare, leaving altogether, counseling, moving to a different class. I know it's important to move through tough stuff and not run away all the time, but I wouldn't want to have to go back to a situation where I felt violated right away, nomatter how much assurance I got that it wouldn't happen again.

She's had her boundaries crossed - Big Time. Just stopping it from happening again doesn't feel to me like it is enough.

It is not blaming anyone if you decide to make a change to her daycare sitch. Your first priority is to protect your daughter's sense of safety. It doesn't matter if it was no one's fault she got hurt. Intent in this situation is less important that your dd's perception of what happened.

If, in her mind or in reality, this boy actually removed her underwear from her- that is BIG! That involves a big struggle- or big perceived struggle.

Anway- I'm not trying to be alarmist, but there's my take.


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## diamond lil (Oct 6, 2003)

I admire the way you have taught your daughter to respect herself. I don't think you overreacted at all. I think what you did is exactly right. Your daughter has a right to go to daycare (where she obviously is happy and has a wonderful time) and not be scared or threatened by another child REGARDLESS of his disabilities or who his mother is.

I would schedule a meeting with the assistant director or whoever is next in command. Leave Joe's mom out of it because she may not be objective. If you are not satisfied and your daughter remains frightened/angry/upset, I'd pull her and start looking for a new daycare immediately.


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

awww. After all your struggles with your last daycare. I think you've handled this well so far, but I would totally push further. If this kid, joe, is doing this with your daughter is he doing it with other kids too? How many kids need to be traumatized into not wanting to wear their panties? there's enough issues with the potty as it is, I think being afraid to wear underwear is something a kid shouldn't have to deal with.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Could Joe be placed in a room where all of the kids are older than he is? Older kids will probably be more able to protect themselves.

Namaste!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

The fact that this was allowed to happen at all says there is a serious lack of supervision going on! The staff-to-child ratio should be such that the teachers know what is going on with all the children!







:


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
The fact that this was allowed to happen at all says there is a serious lack of supervision going on! The staff-to-child ratio should be such that the teachers know what is going on with all the children!







:









:

Or maybe the teachers just dont care


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

I agree with Greaseball. 2 teachers to 15 kids does not sound like enough to me at that age. The preschool where my dd will go is 3 adults for 10 kids- 2 teachers and one adult volunteer, everyday.

nak


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

I just got off the phone with the Assistant Director.

I told her everything that happened, and that I was really uncomfortable with Joe's behavior - specifically this incident, but also his lack of physical boundaries with her in general. I said I understood that he had special needs, but that I didn't really care *why* someone would touch my daughter in an inappropriate place -- I would not tolerate or excuse it. I wanted to know that Joe would not be allowed in the bathroom with DD, and that if the teachers felt they couldn't attend to him in such a way that would guarantee he couldn't invade her space or make her uncomfortable, I wanted to know about it up front so I could make a decision.

I told her I loved the school and the teachers and wanted to work on a way to make this work, but that I was going to take my daughter very seriously and not stop until I felt satisfied that she would never have to worry about this happening again with Joe.

The assistant director really listened, apologized, explained that Joe is even more developmentally disabled (I'm not sure if that's the right term) than I had suspected, and that he doesn't understand what he's doing most of the time. From the way she was talking, it was clear that she was trying to convey that most people overestimate what he's capable of, mentally. She apologized that the teachers had missed times when he had made dd uncomfortable, and she said would talk to them as soon as the kids were all down for a nap. She said that he's actually almost never in the bathroom, since they were not making an effort to potty train him, so it's possible that a teacher may have turned her back for a moment and he wandered in -- but he is not "sent" to the potty the way the other kids are when a teacher notices that someone hasn't gone in a while. She said she would talk to DD's teachers and find out if they had noticed anything specific about DD and Joe lately, if they thought DD seemed more withdrawn or unhappy lately, and if Joe had been (as apparently he has done in the past) taking spare underpants from the cubbies of other kids and playing with them. (Side note: When she mentioned that, it made me wonder if that was what DD was talking about -- that Joe had taken her underpants from her cubby and put his hand inside them (she does often confuse "inside" and "under"). His cubby is next to hers.) Anyway, she promised to find out what the teachers knew and get back to DH and I by the end of the day today.

The point I left the assistant director with was that, while I understood that Joe's intentions are not malicious or driven by any sense of right and wrong, it didn't matter to me. I needed my child to feel comfortable, and we'd decide how we wanted to proceed once we heard from her and the teachers. She was very understanding, said she was glad I'd called, and that she would definitely work on this right away.

I feel heard, which is good, and my next step is to make sure that DD knows *she* was heard. Any ideas on how to approach this with her? How can I talk about it without putting ideas in her head that will either scare her further, or suggest things that may not have happened, but letting her know that we take her seriously?

Thank you all for all your good advice so far.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*







:

Or maybe the teachers just dont care










I have to say that I resent this particular sub-thread here. Based on what I've told you, there's no reason to suppose that the teachers aren't paying attention or worse, that they don't care about something like this. I have just one child, and sometimes I turn my head for a second and she's got the tv remote dangling over the garbage can. I don't need to assign blame here -- just want to resolve the problem so it won't happen again, and find a way to help my daughter deal with whatever fear she has.


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## ellemoon (Mar 19, 2003)

Well I think you did everything right. Good for you to be so proactive for your daughter.

Well done!

ellen


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyV*
Set up a meeting with the director and the teachers. That is absolutely not ok. I don't think the boy is being malicious, but may need more attention than such a setting can give.

Ditto. And I know this is just me, but since you are asking for opinions, I would not make my kid stay there without me until it was resolved.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Glad that you feel like the school heard your concerns, I hope things work out for you and your dd. I think you handled the situation the same way I would.

I just wanted to comment on the teacher/child ratio, I am guessing that the ratios are different based on state, law, etc because when my son was 3-4 and in daycare (that was 10 years ago) I seem to recall smiliar ratios as far as teacher/child ratios and we also were in Chicago at the time.


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Just wanted to post that I didn't realize he may have taken her undies out of her cubby. Totally different, though it seems like she's still vey perturbed.

Sorry if *I* overreacted.

I wish I had better advice for how to mend her feelings.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

I think you handled it well. Goo also has issues when people touch her (in her case, a 5 year old was tickling her) and we taught her to say "don't touch me, I don't like that"

We also brought it to the attention of the center who talked with the girl about asking people about touching...

I think you did the right thing. I would sit down and talk with your daughter again. Let her know that you talked to the teachers and that they understand that she isn't happy when Joe takes her underwear. Let her know that she can talk to the teachers anytime that Joe makes her uncomfortable. Then let the teachers know you told her this.

I have found, in my daycare, that the teachers are very happy to help, especially in situations of touching...


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

random thoughts, sorry pg brain, no particular order:

I think you're doing great so far. that teacher/kid ratio is common around here too.

re: what to do with your daughter -- maybe another chat with her that it is totally ok for her to tell people not to touch her. That you've chatted with the teachers at school and they are going to try their best to make sure joe (and the other kids) knows she means it when she says don't touch me.

I might also ask her if she wanted a bag for her undies -- meaning if he did grab them from the cubby then she might feel more protected if she kept them in a tote bag in her cubby.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

I was reading along, thinking all was going to be resolved easily for you, until I read the last line of your first post--the fact that "Joe" is the son of the director.
Now my mind is working with many possibilities--but the biggest thing that comes to mind is this:
If "Joe" has some special needs (that sound like-am I right here?--mostly behavioral--as opposed to something like a physical disability, i.e., wheelchair, etc.) then it sounds like the teachers need to be equipped with appropriate training when handling this particular child (like a background dealing with ED/LD kids, something along those lines)...
and I guess I am not sure that that is going to happen.
I think you handled it well, as far as what you said--but I am also thinking: Joe has a special place there, and your child will certainly be trumped by Joe should his behavior continue, or G- forbid, escalate.
I hope this works out for you, but to me, Joe sounds like a big red flag--even if the panties were just taken from a cubby. Who knows what Joe's future behavior will bring; and if I were a teacher there I'd worry about losing my job if I had to talk to the director about his own kid.
Something to think about.


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## nomadmom (Mar 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fiddledebi*
Any ideas on how to approach this with her? How can I talk about it without putting ideas in her head that will either scare her further, or suggest things that may not have happened, but letting her know that we take her seriously?

You could ask dd to *show* you what Joe did that upset her. That might be easier for her than trying to put it into words.


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## Mama Bee (Aug 20, 2003)

I read this thread earlier w/o posting. Went away... have been thinking about it and have come back to post. As the Mama of a child with Special Needs, one who has trouble understanding personal space, likes to pull hair, take food out of the hands of other children, and cognitively is well below his age level- I feel I should chime in.









Above anything else, I would want to know if my child was doing things to make other children or adults drastically uncomfortable as you describe. I am ultra sensitive to the fact that we have trouble in large groups and tend to only hang out with other Mamas and kids who I know and trust because I KNOW they will tell me if things get out of hand. When in social settings- playgroup, playground, religious education at church, etc. I tend to hover more than other Mamas because I KNOW for a FACT that DS is going to pull hair, going to take away a pretzel or other things such as that. We rarely, rarely leave DS with someone not his Mama or Da because we know he has issues and we are unsure how others (teachers, other parents, etc) will react because he does have Special Needs and it is a sensitive, difficult 'politically correct'-type situation.

Do I think accommodations should be made for him- yes. Do I think others should take into account that even though he is 3, cognitively he functions at about an 18 month level- absolutely.

However, I would be mortified to find out something such as your DD described had happened while I was out using the restroom or preparing snacks or whatever. I would want to know immediately. And I would want us (the parents and teachers) to be able to work together to find a solution equally fair to both children and acceptable to both sets of parents.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I am very sorry you are going through what you are. Please keep us posted- I'd really like to know how the situation is resolved.


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

fiddledebi-I don't have much advice, just







BUT, I just had to reply and tell you how impressed I was with how you handled this situation with your daughter. Your words, actions, everything, seems right on target. I think sometimes it's easy to forget that not all parents use their words in this way with their kids. You were compassionate, loving, attentive, and yet didn't upset her.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

MamaBee, thank you for your thoughtful and honest post. I had really hoped someone like you would post your thoughts, honestly. As concerned as I was (and am) about my dd, I also feel for the mom of "Joe," and for Joe himself. It must be terribly difficult to be in that position, and I am happy to hear that you have found a good group of understanding friends and fellow mamas. I did (and do) see the presence of Joe in dd's school as a good opportunity to teach her gently about tolerance, different types of kids with different learning styles and abilities, and am just sad that any kind of incident may have occured between them.

DH spoke with the assistant director last night when he went to pick dd up. She said she spoke with dd's teachers, and they had not noticed any kind of specific incident between dd and Joe lately. They did make a commitment to be more vigilant about watching Joe with dd and all the other kids, to be sure one of the teachers had him in her sights at all times, and to keep him out of the bathroom where all the kids sit on potties in reach of each other. DH said that the assistant director seemed very serious, was very appreciative of our candor and our concern, and asked us to keep her posted on anything else dd said about the situation.

DD herself seemed fine, and even pointed out what Joe was playing with at the end of the day, with a smile on her face and no apparent fear or discomfort, and said goodbye to him (and all the other kids) voluntarily before she left.

DH and I plan to talk to her about the situation this weekend (we didn't want to do it in the evening too close to bedtime). Our plan right now is to ask her to show us what Joe did (GREAT suggestion nomadmom), and then tell her that we talked to all the grownups at school about how Joe's behavior made her feel upset. We'll tell her that everyone now knows that she doesn't like Joe to touch her underpants, and they're going to be careful to see that he doesn't do anything she doesn't like, but that it's ok for her to tell him to stop as loudly as she wants, and that she can tell any grownup right away when Joe is bothering her. Hopefully she'll direct the conversation a little herself, but we just want to get across that she is in charge of this situation, and we'll help make sure she gets what she needs to feel comfortable.

Thank you all for your wonderful advice and your ideas. You are all right that Joe isn't going anywhere (because of who is mom is), but I feel really confident that the teachers and the assistant director are taking this seriously and are going to work hard to be sure all the kids feel safe and listened to.


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## HoneymoonBaby (Mar 31, 2004)

I'm not sure I understand why they're sending kids the the potty in groups where they can see/have access to each other. Especially kids of different sexes.

I'm glad this is being resolved to your satisfaction, though.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HoneymoonBaby*
I'm not sure I understand why they're sending kids the the potty in groups where they can see/have access to each other. Especially kids of different sexes.

I'm glad this is being resolved to your satisfaction, though.

Just to respond to your concern: they have a big bathroom with half a dozen little potties on the floor; it's part of the classroom (i.e., no one leaves the room, the door is permanently open to the potty room). This way, when a kid has to go, there's almost never a need to wait. Also, there's the peer influence thing. I think it's cute that some of the kids choose to go together (don't we all do that with our female friends too?







), and they do teach the rules of hygiene, so no one is really mucking around in anyone else's potty.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HoneymoonBaby*
I'm not sure I understand why they're sending kids the the potty in groups where they can see/have access to each other. Especially kids of different sexes.

I'm glad this is being resolved to your satisfaction, though.

that's how every daycare I've worked in does it. The children are not ashamed of being seen a little naked, the ones who have potty training down pat go into stalls, the ones who still need help pulling up and down pants and wiping need help from the teachers, and it would take 2 hours to individually take each child into the bathroom- it's better for them to be on a schedule anyways (life after snack, lunch, and naptime, and then any other time they ask for it) and it helps them tremendously to be "in it together", it's great motivation for them.
but absolutely someone needs to be paying closer attention that the chidren aren't touching each other inappropriately.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momto l&a*
Or maybe the teachers just dont care









How is this comment helpful?

I think it needs to be clear whether "Joe" was taking the extra pair of undies in her cubby or the ones on her body. And exactly where he was touching her. Him sitting too close or grabbing her arm is a great way for her to learn that her body is her own and she can stop touching she doesn't want. But if it is something else, that is more than a child that age should be made to fix on her own, even with the help of watchful teachers. The stress of hoping it doesn't happen again is too much for a child that age IMO.

"Joe" won't be leaving no matter which it is - if it is the latter, I'd pull her as the teachers can't be everywhere all the time. If it is the former, definitely stay and role play how she can make him stop, get help, etc.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I hope it all works out asap.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I've done a little bit of work on the issue of peer sexual harassment (most of my work is with domestic violence victims), and I have to say that I think you handled this beautifully, with the center and, most importantly, with your daughter. I'm sorry to say that the most recent research on peer sexual harassment in grade schools (i.e. children in grades 1-6) shows very high rates of peer harassment-- in some cases, upwards of 50% of girls (and sometime boys) are sexually harassed by peers. I think you empowered your daughter with a skill and an attitude that she will be able to take with her as she grows up (and, unfortunately, will probably be inapropriately touched or spoken to again).

If I were in your shoes, I would not initiate talking to her about this incident again, whatever it was. I think it is clear from her behavior that she has processed her feelings about this incident, and I think that's because you hit is just right in your reaction and conversation with her. What I would do is listen carefully for her to talk about things at school and then try to follow up any comments she makes with open ended questions that ask generally how things are going at school. Questions like "what was the most fun thing that you did at school this week" or if she talks about a classmate, ask generally "and how about the other kids in your class, did they like playing that game too?"

I say this because IF this incident with Joe was traumatic to her, trying to get her to talk about it before she is ready might drive her feelings further underground. If it was traumatic and/or she wants to talk about it some more, it's likely that she will start talking around it, drop subtle clues about Joe or her underwear or her cubby or touching. You should be ready to pick up on those cues and ask gently probing questions. It's also possible that she might mention it again like a verbal softball and hurl it right at you. Given how wonderfully you responded on the fly the first time, I think it's likely that you'll do great in this situation, too.

But I would wait for her to bring it up again, rather than trying to force a discussion on her. This applies to adult victims as well-- it's best to be patient and allow them to talk in their own time and on their own terms.

Karla


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## Bitter Green (Feb 17, 2005)

Quote:

fiddledebi-I don't have much advice, just BUT, I just had to reply and tell you how impressed I was with how you handled this situation with your daughter. Your words, actions, everything, seems right on target. I think sometimes it's easy to forget that not all parents use their words in this way with their kids. You were compassionate, loving, attentive, and yet didn't upset her.
ITA!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

I say this because IF this incident with Joe was traumatic to her, trying to get her to talk about it before she is ready might drive her feelings further underground.
If he traumatized her, even if it was not sexual in nature, she should not be at the school! No one should be forced to attend school or any other place where there are people who scare them.


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## fiddledebi (Nov 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
If he traumatized her, even if it was not sexual in nature, she should not be at the school! No one should be forced to attend school or any other place where there are people who scare them.

I agree with you, Greaseball, honestly. Please trust me when I say that I am watching my daughter carefully. I just have no way of knowing yet whether this experience was a) traumatic for her, b) upsetting but not more than, say, when she bonked her head on a coffee table at a cousin's house and talked about it on and off for a week or c) already out of her mind. She hasn't brought it up again. If I felt more sure that this little boy's presence was haunting her, I would definitely think harder about pulling her out of the environment. However, she actually didn't seem frightened of Joe on Thursday afternoon when my dh picked her up, and waved goodbye to him, on par with the goodbyes she waved to her other classmates.

I am treading a line here -- and surely one I and other moms will tread their whole lives -- between fiercely protecting my child from any possible harm in every possible situation, and admitting that I may be allowing my imagination to run away with me sometimes. It's wise, I think, to err on the side of caution and to be more vigilant, be prepared to act quickly, and ready myself for the possibilities I fear. On the other hand, if all that happened is that Joe took her panties out of her cubby and, in the delicate state that is "almost-potty-trained," this really bugged her and that's the extent of it, is it really grounds for pulling her out of school?

As far as being somewhere where people scare you, I don't think it should be necessary either, but sometimes facing fears is reasonable. For a toddler, mostly I agree that if, for example, s/he is frightened of clowns, being forced to go to the circus is cruel. There's no purpose in it. If, however, a child is frightened, as my friend's child was once, of people with dark skin, does the parent avoid all public spaces in case an African American or Pakistani person might be there? Or, would it be better to show that child ways to conquer that fear?

I want dd to feel empowered -- and thank you, Karla, for seeing that the way I hoped it would come across -- to face her fears and turn them to dust when she can. If she would think that the only way to stop Joe from touching her underwear is to not go to the school where he is, I don't know if I like the lesson that would become. Heaven forbid she was ever anywhere she could not leave where someone tried to touch her -- if the solution she learned was that she could only stop it by leaving, and she couldn't leave, I would have done her a terrible disservice. However, it is known that people are less likely to molest a child who knows the names of her body parts, who says no right away, and who is assertive and protective of her body. I would have rathered never had the need to teach dd these things -- but here is an opportunity to do so in a context where I can be confident she is safe.

Now, that said, if I felt the school was going to ignore my concerns and brush me off, I'd leave anyway, because that does indicate a wider problem. I just still think she's safe there. I think Joe will be watched more carefully, and I also think she is learning, as well as she can, that she has the right to stop the things she doesn't like.

I can't thank everyone enough for all their thoughtful support on this. I'm so grateful!


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
If he traumatized her, even if it was not sexual in nature, she should not be at the school! No one should be forced to attend school or any other place where there are people who scare them.

I think the OP did a very good job at answering this for herself, but I just wanted to add a couple of small points. One is that this would be a totally different situation if the "scary" person was an adult rather than a peer, and/or if the center wasn't responding and trying to eliminate the possibility of a reoccurance.

But there is also a big difference between a kid doing a scary thing and a scary kid. I think it is impossible for kids to be in any environment without being afraid (home being a prime example, especially if your kid is at the stage where they are afraid of monsters or the dark). There is also a difference between a scary kid and a scary place.

Based on the OP's description of her daughter's behavior, this situation seems to be a kid doing a scary thing. The OP gave her daughter the tools to cope with this experience and anything that might happen in the future. In doing exactly what she's doing, I think that the OP (sorry to talk about you in the third person like you're not here) sent the message to her daughter that both she and her parents will help protect her. If the child was pulled out of the center, the message sent is you are such a helpless victim and you have to leave the place you love where your friends are because this terrible thing happened to you.

Karla


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I think you handled it superbly in every way.


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## Yummymummy74 (Jun 7, 2004)

Am I the only one here who finds it odd or notices that it was mentioned that this boy has played with other kids underwear before? and now allegedly your dd's? Where is this coming from with him? Maybe I am not as forward thinking here but this would REALLY disturb me and I would question this little boys personal history... In fact I don't think I could have my child be near him period.

Just my confused opinion on the issue.. goodluck tho!


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

I also this you handled this situation wonderfully!

Do I think it is weird if she has played with underwear before. I guess it depends. Isused to teach pre school, and most kids had a change of clothes or two in their cubby. This included undies. If another kid was taking clothes out of cubbies, it would make no difference to me if it was socks, undies, or a shirt. To most kids clothes are clothes.

NAK


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## Laziza (Jan 19, 2005)

Just a note to the OP: I don't have any kids yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think you have handled this superbly. Honestly. I've found myself nodding in agreement with everything you've posted and hoping I can handle these sorts of situations as well as you have when we do have kids. Nice job, Mama.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmuma*
Am I the only one here who finds it odd or notices that it was mentioned that this boy has played with other kids underwear before? and now allegedly your dd's? Where is this coming from with him? Maybe I am not as forward thinking here but this would REALLY disturb me and I would question this little boys personal history... In fact I don't think I could have my child be near him period.

Just my confused opinion on the issue.. goodluck tho!

Maybe he is interested in underwear because the other children his size are wearing them and using the restroom and he does not and is not. I think it sounds pretty normal that seeing the differences between himself and the other children he might want to touch the underwear. If he is taking them out of cubbies it is still an invasion of her dd personal space but doesn't seem "creepy". JMHO

Great job mama!!!!!!!! It is great when parents can address an important situation while being respectful of everyone involved.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

OK, but is it too much to ask that all children at a daycare are treated equally? Meaning, a director's kid should not have more rights?


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
OK, but is it too much to ask that all children at a daycare are treated equally? Meaning, a director's kid should not have more rights?

In a perfect world.....

To the OP- I think you handled it excellent. I can't think of anything I would have done different. Great job mama, thinking on your feet!


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

If she would think that the only way to stop Joe from touching her underwear is to not go to the school where he is, I don't know if I like the lesson that would become.








I think you have done an excellent job of giving this situation the concerned followup it deserves without making it scarier for your daughter.

Of course the director's kid should not have more rights. If Joe were not the director's kid, I don't think this situation would warrant removing him permanently from the class. He just needs to be watched more closely by people who are aware that there MAY be a problem. One incident does not constitute a problem. Everybody behaves inappropriately sometimes, especially little kids, especially disabled ones.


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