# Aluminum vs. Stainless Steel- The water bottle/sippy conversation continues...



## michellemk (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm just starting to search out new alternatives to plastic sippy cups. I've noticed a lot of discussions about Sigg and Klean Kanteen. The difference I noticed today is that Klean Kanteen is made out of stainless steel, and Sigg is made out of aluminum with an enamel baked on the inside.

Now, isn't aluminum known to cause alzheimers? I know that it's in deoderant, and some baking powders, and it's something that I generally try to avoid. But they say it's safe...

I think I'd rather buy stainless steel for my kid to drink out of.

Anybody have any thoughts on the subject.


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## sara_m (Jul 12, 2004)

Wow, and here I thought my Sigg was the best option! I'd love to hear opinions from all the metal-educated folks out there...


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## L'lee (Dec 6, 2005)

The coating on the Siggs is supposed to prevent aluminum from being in contact with the water. Personally, I think it's a matter of preference between the two. We have a couple of each and I think they're both good options.


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## Blue Lotus (Jun 16, 2006)

Unless you are trying to avoid companies who have their products made in China (like Kleen Kanteen do), so it is Sigg for us...


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Hmm ... I had been considering the Sigg, but after looking at both sites, the Sigg recommends hand washing because of the narrow opening while the Klean Kanteen says the dishwasher is okay and also that the wide opening accomodates ice cubes. Also, the Klean Kanteen has no inner lining to worry about. I think we'll pick one up for DS's stocking!


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## L'lee (Dec 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blue Lotus* 
Unless you are trying to avoid companies who have their products made in China (like Kleen Kanteen do), so it is Sigg for us...

Ugh, OK I should have realized that. Thanks for the info.


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## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

I read on one of those site that their bottles are made "reasponsibly in china",,I'm curious, if stainless that are made in china (all of them it seems?), what alternative to polluting plastic would you use?


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## jumpincholla (Feb 23, 2005)

We have Kleen Kanteen for my dd with the sippy lids and I love them...so does she! Just a question are you mamas boycotting every product made in China or just ones which are made with harmful substances and/or in horrible conditions for the workers?


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## Blue Lotus (Jun 16, 2006)

(Warning! Not trying to hijack the thread, just wanted to explain our reasoning a little better)

For us, the whole China thing is a more complicated issue than just "Boycott everything made in China". We are trying really hard to purchase locally-made items as much as possible, and try to support local economies first. Whether that is in our town, state, region, or country depends on the goods. To be honest, it is really tough to find products that are american made anymore! Labor is just so much cheaper overseas. That said, if we had the time to research every. single. product that we use, sure, I would avoid those just made in factories with deplorable conditions, no matter the country they are produced in. But I just don't have the time or resources to do that. I have to trust the companies that say their workers are treated and paid well (which, wouldn't you say the same thing as a company, so people keep buying your product?







), and try to support local businesses before global ones. For us it was a personal decision as part of our goal to be more self-sustaining and living "greener", or with less of an impact to the earth. For someone else, the decision may be entirely different depending on what is important for your family AND lifestyle.

DH and I really love the feel and usability of the Kleen Kanteen, but we are generally trying to NOT support businesses that manufacture in China, so we decided to stick with the SIGG until we can find a replacement that we are happier with. We are trying to phase out the majority of the harmful plastics we have and stick with the 2, 4, and 5 plastics for things we need/use more often. It is an imperfect choice, but it is what we can live with for now.









ETA: Plastics numbers fixed thanks to my faulty memory!














:


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## Ms.QsMama (Nov 2, 2006)

We have the SIGG bottles and _love_ them! I feel the company is trustworthy and has a lenghthy record to show for. They boast 0% leaching, so I'm not worried about toxins. I know they recommend hand washing, but I've always used the dishwasher and they come out clean every time. Also, they're cuter! DD has really enjoyed picking out different designs which gives her a sense of pride and ownership over her choices. It makes trying to get her to drink fluids (something she's usually too busy playing to do) much easier since she loves her cups. Anyhow, just my $0.02.


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

where do you get SIGGS and kleen kanteens? only online?


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## BethSLP (Mar 27, 2005)

we have SIGGs but DD has a Klean Kanteen simply because she needs a sippy top for travel (not the sport cap lid). I prefer the KK. The Siggs are safe, but they look like HELL in a short period of time from being dropped and dented. The KK stands up to a beating.

Also, I find the KK easier to clean.

FYI, we clean our Siggs with denture cleaner if they get left closed with water in them too long and get stinky. We just drop one or two in the bottom, fill it with warm water and let it sit. Then rinse it out. Good as new.

I believe they actually sell Sigg cleaner, but its similar to denture cleaner (like Efferdent). Not sure where I got that info, but DH found it somewhere online.

We got all our bottles online, but they do sell siggs at Whole Foods and places like that. I got the KK at reusablebags.com

XOXO
B


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## Blue Lotus (Jun 16, 2006)

I know you can get both of them at REI stores. I am sure there are other retail stores as well...


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

I have bought SIGGS and KK and will only buy SIGGS from now on. If you read on the reusable bags site, they say they've shot SIGGS with guns and it still hasnt cracked the epoxy. They do dent, but I dont think it looks that bad, unless you're studying it. Also, for us my son refuses to drink out of the KK with the leak proof thing in it, so when thats taken out it leaks EVERYWHERE. With the sports top we can close it and it travels really well. And they are cuter!

Most importantly for us, I will not buy something for my son where he will be eating or drinking off of or in made in China. He doesnt have any toys MIC except some old Melissa & Doug puzzles bought before all this drama. When it comes to DS's safety I just cant feel comfortable giving him something that could be dangerous when there are viable other options.


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Can anyone tell me how a toddler drinks from a SIGG? I went on the website but i am not understanding how the opening works. is it just a big hole? He is mostly used to drinking from a straw cup, and also has a sippy cup of milk at bedtime.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

We have Siggs and love them. We got them at reusablebags. They come with three lid options and my 4 year old has her fave, the twistie one. I like the one you push with your mouth while drinking and dh likes the sports bottle lid. For baby dd, I got her a thermos sippy which is stainless and made in china but at least better than a plastic sippy (which dd1 is addicted to for her milk for some reason).


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## MsGrizzle (Jun 3, 2005)

We've used KK for over a year now and love them. We have SIGG too but I always seem to go for the KK, especially since it is so much easier to clean. The 12oz with the sport cap firsts really nicely in my ds's lunch box.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

We use KKs around here. I like the "cute factor" of the SIGGS, but we keep our bottles in neoprene carriers so that my hand doesn't freeze when i load it up with ice water.... so I'd never see the cute. And the neoprene keeps the bottles from getting beat up.


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## michellemk (Nov 2, 2005)

Thanks for all of your responses. I have a clearer picture of the options. I personally do not have a dishwasher, so being able to get a dish cloth in the opening is imporatant.

A question for the pp, where do you get the neoprene carriers? I'm sure ds won't want to hold freezing cold metal.


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## BethSLP (Mar 27, 2005)

neoprene carrier sounds like a good idea.

However, another reason I like the KK is that there is a smaller ring around the top that your DC can hold on to. I just don't fill it all the way to the top (too heavy) so even when the bottle is cold, the part she holds isn't. I find them to be easier for a little one to hold than the Sigg.

XOXO
B


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

The Siggs also come with little holders that slip around the outside. They make it a lot easier for the lo's to hold.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michellemk* 
Thanks for all of your responses. I have a clearer picture of the options. I personally do not have a dishwasher, so being able to get a dish cloth in the opening is imporatant.

A question for the pp, where do you get the neoprene carriers? I'm sure ds won't want to hold freezing cold metal.


I got ours from reusablebags.com

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/re...s-c-19_21.html

I like to snap it around the strap of my diaper bag so that it's easy to get to.


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## LeslieB (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm another person who has both a Sigg and a KK for my DS. I really like both of them. I do find the Sigg tends to get stinky if I don't rinse it out often enough, and I did find the Sigg bottle brush to be a necessity for us. But I like the twisty cap and the "sippy cup" handles. I really like the stainless steel aspect of the KK. DS doesn't like the "sippy" cap with the rubber stopper so I took that off so it will come pouring out if he turns it upside down.
He seems to like both equally. I really wanted to have two bottles for him, one for the car and one for home so that's why I ended up with each.
I think you'll like either one.
And oh yeah, I also got mine at reuseablebags.com


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

We use Thermos Foogo straw cups and they work great for us. They are insulated and stainless steel inside and out. We ordered them from Target (instead of driving an hour to the store where they sell them). DD needs the straw and the Thermos is the only non-plastic straw cup I've found. They can leak out the vent if left on its side with the cap open, though.


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## bellabear (Oct 16, 2007)

We have KK's because it's steel and I was afraid of the aluminum in Sigg's. I recently found out out that kk's are made in china, though.


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## BundleFishMama (Jun 1, 2005)

: Glad to see this thread!! I've been wanting to toss our plastic sippies and replace them with something safer, so I'm glad to get everyone's opinions here....


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## mariamaroo (Aug 15, 2004)

We're Kleen Kanteen users over here, and I was really happy with them until I found out they were made in China. Does anybody have reliable information about how safe their manufacturing process really is? I seem to have lost mine, so maybe I'll replace it with a Sigg and do some compare-and-contrast.

DD uses the sippy top with the KK and we both love it, and I take the whole thing apart and throw it in the dishwasher, no problem.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

We have KK's here. I decided against the Sigg because of the epoxy coating inside.
My KK is pretty banged up though.


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## mystic~mama (Apr 27, 2004)

oh, my KK is so banged up too! they last such a long time


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## TeaLeaf (Jun 19, 2007)

I just want to post a link which is only one of the many sources that states that plastics 2, 4, and 5 are the safest; specifically 5 is the best if I recall correctly -- easily googled I suspect. #1 PET or PETE should not be reused; that's all the water bottles you buy out there on the market and "may release di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate, an endocrine-disrupting compound and probable human carcinogen." If you search the following keywords on the site, you'll get more: "plastic bottle"

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/114/picnic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blue Lotus* 
We are trying to phase out the majority of the harmful plastics we have and stick with the 1,2 and 4 plastics for things we need/use more often.

In terms of aluminum, here is another link; however, here is something interesting: "While aluminum cookware can corrode slightly into very salty or acidic foods, such as tomato sauce, the amount ingested is minute compared to that from other sources, such as antacids and buffered aspirins."

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/60/cookware

Personally, I use SIGG b/c of the China issue; I try to stay clear of it, especially with toys, and Walmart, too, and start with local vendors/manuf. as far as our wallet will take us. It's getting harder and harder though ...







:

FYI: National Geographic Society took over The Green Guide. Not sure what that means yet, but this info predates the take over.


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

Most Whole Foods Markets now carry SIGG bottles in all sizes


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## Bay Area Babe (May 15, 2006)

We use Siggs - the main reason is we've been avoiding stainless cookware as there are health reasons not to be using stainless steel (don't have the time to get into all of the reasons right now but you can Google it).

We also occasionally use the Born Free sippy though DS has never quite gotten the hang of it - he's had maybe 5 small bottles of EBM in his life and so I wonder if this is the reason. Anyway, the twisty sport top on the Sigg isn't hard to suck out of - it's sort of like a straw - though you have to keep it tipped up of course.

I just make sure to empty them out at night and just let them air dry. I used to work for a major internet company well known for environmental responsibility and they provided us with these to reduce plastic bottle and cup use. They just had denture cleaner in the micro kitchens and we would throw a tab in every once in a while. They also had the brush but I didn't use it as I would want to make sure it was clean itself. I think the brush would be good for cleaning the plastic top, especially as DS likes to rub food on the top of his Siggs.







:

Really unless you're in a super hot area I doubt you'll miss the ability to put an ice cube in the top. And don't forget that neoprene is a synthetic rubber - if you're conscious about natural products.

I think this site has a nice review of the safer sippys: http://zrecs.blogspot.com/2007/05/si...ree-sippy.html


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## berkeleyp (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks for this thread - I too am hoping to start replacing my plastic with better alternatives. Dd can drink from a regular glass but she always wants one of the plastic ones - probably because they are cuter. I heard that SIGG may leach from the liner but I can't remember where I read that. Thermos sounds like a nice alternative too. Oh btw, SIGG is sold at EMS too.


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## geckoed (Jul 9, 2005)

we have both. this week I prefer my KK. What about these http://www.thesafesippy.com/features.html?


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## monkeymimi (Jul 16, 2005)

We use a "coozie" like you put on a beer can on my dd's KK. Found a neoprene one while at the beach. Makes the KK slightly less destructive when thrown - sounds like "koonk" instead of "crash" when it hits the ground.


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## Blue Lotus (Jun 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TeaLeaf* 
I just want to post a link which is only one of the many sources that states that plastics 2, 4, and 5 are the safest; specifically 5 is the best if I recall correctly -- easily googled I suspect. #1 PET or PETE should not be reused; that's all the water bottles you buy out there on the market and "may release di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate, an endocrine-disrupting compound and probable human carcinogen." If you search the following keywords on the site, you'll get more: "plastic bottle"

http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/114/picnic

I just wanted to post this bit about plastics and Bisphenol-A:

Substance: Bisphenol A (BPA)

Have I been exposed to it? Probably. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found BPA in 95 percent of people it tested.

How the hell did that happen? It's used in polycarbonate plastic products like water bottles, shatter-resistant baby bottles, sunglasses, and CDs; epoxy resins typical of food and beverage can linings; and dental sealants.

Risks: Animal testing has shown that fetal exposure to even small amounts of BPA -- lower than the levels found in the typical human -- can lead to prostate cancer and breast cancer. Studies on rodents have shown reduced sperm counts.

Especially for you gals! BPA is implicated in polycystic ovary syndrome, which affects 1 in 10 U.S. women and is the leading cause of women's infertility. This syndrome can also cause the growth of skin tags and excess hair, irregular periods, and obesity.

*Scary! So how do I avoid this crap? Difficult. Canned foods are a big source of exposure, with beverages the lowest, pastas and soups the highest. So opt for glass packaging for these foods, or cook from scratch. Cut back on prepackaged infant formulas for the ankle-biter. Until manufacturers get the BPA out of polycarbonate (#7 plastic), switch to glass, polypropylene (#5) or polyethylene (#1, #2, #4) containers; trade out that polycarbonate water bottle for a stainless steel model; and don't heat liquids or foods in polycarbonate containers or plastic wraps.*

Here is the link this snippet is from. There is a lot more on the article about other problematic chemicals we are exposed to. http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/09/18/chemicals/

In a later article there is a note dealing with the problems of the #1 plastics ( http://www.grist.org/advice/ask/2005...es2/index.html ) so really the best choices are indeed the #2, 4, and 5 bottles. It was my memory that was off in my original post.







That's what happens when I try to respond to a post while chasing my little one around, without checking my files first!







:









There was an article I found recently that said SIGG reformulated their liner to address the possible leaching issue. I'll try to find the link first this time...

ETA:

OK, here is the link. The entire text is LONG and the leaching is discussed in the first half of the article.
http://www.reusablebags.com/news.php...details&id=144


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## anamama (Sep 9, 2003)

We use SIGG bottles. I have no qualms with the liner, etc. We have the SIGG bottle brush, and it works great! We love it for milk bottles, too.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

gee...but how in heck do you AFFORD these suckers...?


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## Blue Lotus (Jun 16, 2006)

We buy one or two at a time, or use a coupon from recyclebags.com for a better deal. Our local MDC moms just bought a bunch of SIGG bottles with a 20% off coupon recently. The bottles seem more expensive in the long run, but we believe that our health and LO's health are worth the higher cost.


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## SunRayeMomi (Aug 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loriforeman* 
gee...but how in heck do you AFFORD these suckers...?


Co-ops!!!! I just bought 5KKs for about half price each








: Find a co-op, or start your own.









About stainless steel - what's worse, that or aluminum? I've heard more about aluminum, and now here I am seeing that ss has issues too?







: And about China - I am really into supporting local economies too, but my local mamas have painted a picture about the KKs holding up better. I'm just as concerned about quality as I am about economy.


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## L'lee (Dec 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bay Area Babe* 
We use Siggs - the main reason is we've been avoiding stainless cookware as there are health reasons not to be using stainless steel (don't have the time to get into all of the reasons right now but you can Google it).

If you get a chance sometime, I'd love to hear about this, this is new to me. I tried googling it and only came up with a little bit about how US SS has more nickel in it than European SS and some people have allergies. I have special interest because we JUST invested in a new set of SS pots and pans and it was disappointing already that I saw that they are MIC.







:







: I'd hate to return them but I though I was actually doing something healthy for the family! Aluminum is BAD, nonstick is BAD, Iron is BAD for men and Post-Menopausal women...







:


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## Nekawa Ma (Jul 28, 2006)

I'd like to know why the epoxy lining in an aluminum bottle is considered safer than plastic. Epoxy IS plastic.


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## *Robin* (Aug 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L'lee* 
If you get a chance sometime, I'd love to hear about this, this is new to me. I tried googling it and only came up with a little bit about how US SS has more nickel in it than European SS and some people have allergies.









:


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L'lee* 
If you get a chance sometime, I'd love to hear about this, this is new to me. I tried googling it and only came up with a little bit about how US SS has more nickel in it than European SS and some people have allergies. I have special interest because we JUST invested in a new set of SS pots and pans and it was disappointing already that I saw that they are MIC.







:







: I'd hate to return them but I though I was actually doing something healthy for the family! Aluminum is BAD, nonstick is BAD, Iron is BAD for men and Post-Menopausal women...







:

OK why is Iron bad?







: I just spent way more money than I wanted too ditching all my non-stick cookware with SS on Mother's day. Now that is bad? I think we just can't win for loose. I do have a few cast Iron but I don't like to cook starchy foods or meat in them. (DH is vegan)

As for sippy cups, we use this:

http://www.newbornfree.com/ DS at one though would just prefer I hold a glass of water for him.


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## andisunshine (May 2, 2006)

From Klean Kanteen's website:

Quote:

What is stainless steel?
Stainless steel is an iron-containing alloy made from some of the basic elements found on earth: iron ore, chromium, silicon, nickel, carbon, nitrogen, and manganese. Properties of the final alloy are tailored by varying amounts of these elements. There are more than 57 stainless steels recognized as standard alloys on the market. Klean Kanteens are constructed from high quality sanitary grade 304 stainless steel which has a low nickel content. Stainless steel has excellent resistance to stain or rust due to its chromium content making it a material of choice among the food processing, dairy and brewery industries. Stainless steel is easy to clean, durable, inert and sanitary.

What is nickel and how can it affect my health?
Nickel is a naturally abundant element found in the earth's crust, soil and ocean floor. It is generally resistant to corrosion and is therefore used to make metal alloys such as stainless steel. Approximately 10-15% of the population is sensitive to nickel. The health effects of nickel are highly dependent on the manner and degree of exposure, according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), a department of the U.S. Dept. of Public Health and Human Services. The ATSDR warns that environmental exposures may arise from wearing costume jewelry, handling coins or from inhaling dust near nickel industries. The most common reaction to handling nickel is a skin rash at the site of contact. Less frequently, those sensitive to nickel have asthma attacks after inhaling dust containing nickel. Klean Kanteens are constructed of high quality, sanitary grade 304 stainless steel. 304 has a low nickel content and is preferred by breweries and dairies.
It looks like they are very aware of the issues with nickel.


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## michellemk (Nov 2, 2005)

Now this is the conversation I was looking for.

Is there a sippy that is made of high quality stainless steel that is not made in China? Maybe a European one? Because that is the one that we would purchase.


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## confidentpregger (Aug 23, 2006)

BTW....I bought a Sigg for my then 6 month old and he figured out how to use it in less than a 1/2 hour. He loves it and doesn't even understand how regular sippy cups work now! He's dented it but it holds up good. We bought the twisty top.


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## L'lee (Dec 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
OK why is Iron bad?

I have read that excess iron can increase the risk of heart attacks in men, but I just went searching for more info and it looks like Harvard did a study that disproved that. In your case, iron is probably not a problem since vegans get less heme iron anyways.


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## ecoscapeleah (Aug 31, 2007)

I decided not to take chances with my child's and my family's health. I just went with stainless steel, since it is safe and aluminum is linked with neurological disorders. And how do we know for certain that the enamel coating inside the Sigg aluminum container is safe and will not wear with use? Unless there are many different third party testing agencies testing the product over time, it is really impossible to know. And that's probably why you have chosen not to use plastic cups, even the "safe" kind. Better truly safe than sorry.


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