# "Indians" and "No way Jose" - what's offensive?



## Perdita_in_Ontario (Feb 7, 2007)

Ok, so I'd like to hear opinions on these two things.

First, DD has just picked up "No way Jose" from the kids at daycare. It feels to me that this might have offensive origins, but I don't know for sure - DH thinks it's from the Ed Sullivan show? I know I said it a lot growing up and she enjoys it from a word-play perspective but if it is offensive, I want to steer her away from saying it.

Also, "Indians" - as in "cowboys and Indians". DD has inherited a lot of kids' books from DH and myself. Lots of mentions of kids playing this, dressing up as "indians" etc. I'm uncomfortable with it when she's a bit young for me to explain why we don't call Native Canadians and Americans "Indians" usually now (she's 2.5). I don't know whether to gloss over it or put the books away. What are other parents doing?

Many thanks!


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## ColwynsMommy (Aug 2, 2004)

I have no idea about "No way, Jose" so I can't help you on that one.

As far as the Indians thing, I would worry much less about the word Indian (since Native Americans and Canadians don't actually mind being called Indians, for the most part), and focus more on what stereotypes are being portrayed in the books and in play.

She's still little for deep discussions or anything, but I would be okay with using the term Indian (the legal term is American Indian, not Native American), but I would make an effort to find books that portray Indians in a good light, if all she's seeing are books with Indians and cowboys fighting.


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## Perdita_in_Ontario (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm almost positive Native Canadians do not like the term Indians. Almost


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## ColwynsMommy (Aug 2, 2004)

Okay, so I did some more googling because I honestly have no idea about indigenous people in Canada.

I've seen several references that some or many people find the term Indian offensive, and that First Nations People is better to use. But apparently that term doesn't include Inuits or Metis.. if you're going to use a term to mean all of them, or are just being vague, it seems that indigenous or aboriginal people is best. But on all the terminology lists I found, Indian is listed as acceptable but only for that segment of the indigenous population. I did learn that Eskimo is definitely offensive. Oh, and legally, I think they're referred to as Aboriginal peoples, Indians, Inuits, or Metis. First Nations isn't a legal term, though widely used.

In the U.S., most indigenous people refer to themselves either as Indians or by their tribal name (Cherokee, Navajo, etc). Generally speaking, they don't use the term Native Americans, and like I said, legally they're called American Indians.

ETA: I also googled the origins of the phrase 'No way, Jose!" and I couldn't find anything on it being offensive. Apparently it was first used in the early 1960's by Brian DiSalvatore in The Village Voice, and the only explanation I saw guessed that it was most likely used just because it rhymes so well.


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## Adele_Mommy (Jun 28, 2007)

I was always taught that Indian is not the best term to use, but not so offensive that I would say never say it or avoid books that used it.

In our house it is mostly incredibly confusing! My dd has a good friend across the street whose parents are from India. My dd went through a time when she thought (reasonably enough) that Indians were people from Indiana, and then when she learned that her friend's family were Indian and from another country, she though Indiana was a country and not a state. I think she has gotten it straightened out in her head now, but we still try to use the word Indian to refer only to people from India and use either Native Americans or, preferably if possible, a tribal name such as Lakota to refer to American Indians.

I have no information on "No way, Jose" except that I remember saying it a lot as a kid and I have not heard anyone say it in a long time. My dd does not use this expression.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

I used to live in very north Texas (like near the Oklahoma border) and the term "Indians" was almost never used to refer to native americans, especially not by natives themselves.

Now that I have moved to California, the tribes here refer to themselves as "Indians" in commercials and it seems completly fine to refer to "Indian Casinos" and we recently had the "Indian Gaming Agreements" come to the ballot. It is very weird to me because in TX this would not be PC, but in the very self-conscious land of California it is just fine.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

As a fellow Canadian, the natives that I know do find the term Indian offensive. They prefer first nations or native.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Also, regardless of terminology, "cowboys and indians" mythology, play, etc is offensive.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

If they are refering to American Indians or Native Americans the term Indian is probably fine. In many areas it's what the Natives call themselves even. I'm in Cali BTW. If your child's books are about Natives from Canada then it's a different issue....generally cowboys and indians books are American books.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/no-way-jose.html
No way Jose' is used because it rhymes most likely. Just like that song that rhymes a bunch of names....
50 ways to leave your lover

You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free


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## Perdita_in_Ontario (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
If they are refering to American Indians or Native Americans the term Indian is probably fine. In many areas it's what the Natives call themselves even. I'm in Cali BTW. If your child's books are about Natives from Canada then it's a different issue....generally cowboys and indians books are American books.


Several books - mostly American but a couple of British books too. But in a way that's a moot point because we live in Canada and she needs to learn how to refer to First Nations (that's the phrase I was searching for last night and couldn't find in my head) here first and foremost.

And yes, it's the "playing cowboys and Indians" that I'm most concerned about - kids dressing up as cowboys fighting kids dressed up as Indians. I think once she's moved on to a new favourite book I'll quietly put that one away again until she's older and we can have a good conversation about it.

Thanks for the comments and the research, everyone. I'll let "No way Jose" stand - sounds like it's not offensive and she is enjoying saying like the "big girls" at the moment.


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