# Non-Flaming Mommas! Tribe



## Salihah

Join our ranks! Make a pledge to our fellow mama-sisters and a commitment to ourselves, to keep our posts flame free!

Add the "Non-Flaming Momma!







" badge to your sig-line. (or if anyone has a better suggestion, speak up!







)

Read this post for the background to the start of this tribe:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=790344

Thanks to mama Jeanne D'Arc for suggesting this tribe!


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## QueenOfTheMeadow

I am perfectly happy to give support when asked for. I can be honest and true to myself without belittling and hurting someone elses feelings. I will always post with respect and knowledge that I am actually speaking to a real life person with real life feelings.

Can I join?


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## DaughterOfKali

I think it's a good idea to strive to remember that we are dealing with real people, with real feelings.

I sometimes fall off the Nice wagon but I try not to let that happen very often.
Like my former sig said "*Be kind. If you can't be kind, then be Quiet*."


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## Jeanne D'Arc

Hi!

This is great, LOVE the idea.

I think first we should define what Flaming is and what it looks like.


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *race_kelly* 
I am perfectly happy to give support when asked for. I can be honest and true to myself without belittling and hurting someone elses feelings. I will always post with respect and knowledge that I am actually speaking to a real life person with real life feelings.

Can I join?

Beautiful! Of course you can join!









Defining flaming...great idea. Does MDC have a statement on it?


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## dolphinkisser

I'm in.


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## eco_mama

Um. Can I join? PLease??







:


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## Salihah

No need to ask, mamas! We want everyone to be a non-flamer!









Welcome, welcome, welcome!


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## Salihah

eco_mama... "The problem with political jokes is that they get elected."


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## eco_mama

:

So, Live4Today (great screenname btw) where in the Blue Ridges do you live? I used to live in VA...I miss that area.


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Live4Today* 
eco_mama... "The problem with political jokes is that they get elected."




















I know. It's funny, yet unfortunate!

I decided to use the Peace sign in the sig cuz i think it works equally good.







:


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## QueenOfTheMeadow

You're probably going to laugh, but how do I put the link in my sig. I know how to change my sig, just not link it to this thread.


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *race_kelly* 
You're probably going to laugh, but how do I put the link in my sig. I know how to change my sig, just not link it to this thread.









Ok, go up to the url link (for this page), copy it, then go to edit sig. Type in what you want "non-flaming mama" then highlight it and click on the little earth/attachment icon, and then paste the url link in it. then check your sig and it should be there!

i hope i explained that right!


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## Maela

I'm joining!


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## mom2PJS

Another member One Happy Mama has a sig that reads
"Judgment + Criticism = Alienation / Education + Support = Change - What a concept"
To me that says it all.

We don't all have to agree, but lets be nice


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2PJS* 
Another member One Happy Mama has a sig that reads
"Judgment + Criticism = Alienation / Education + Support = Change - What a concept"
To me that says it all.

We don't all have to agree, but lets be nice


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## Paddington




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## JamesMama

Thanks for starting this!


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## Valkyrie9

I vow to uphold the peaceful principles this tribe holds true. I also vow to update my signature to include the link...just probably not tonight.


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## milosmomma

I love this idea


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## Paddington

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Valkyrie9* 
I vow to uphold the peaceful principles this tribe holds true. I also vow to update my signature to include the link...just probably not tonight.









I cheated.







I hit reply with quote on the original thread and just copied the link info from it.


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## Jeanne D'Arc

I am wondering what everyone thinks flaming is, specifically?

Is it being hostile? Is it arguing? Is it provoking or baiting people?

Just curious.


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## User101

Hey mamas! I'm just popping in with a gentle reminder that the FYT Guidelines state that tribes ae=re not to be used to criticize or otherwise negatively reference other threads, posts, or posters. I would c and p and quote, but I'm on my hubby's laptop and I don't know how,







.

Anyway, I applaud your desire to post peacefully and hope you find this a safe place to encourage one another, but you need to do it without referencing other threads, posts, forums, or members.

Peace, ladies!


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## Paddington

For me I think it is when you see that mama who lost it on their child and forgot their GD and feels horrible about it, you shouldn't start in on her about what a crappy mom she is and she should have CPS called on her. Instead give her that hug and if she needs to regroup and have better coping ideas offer her some suggestions.

I think using less attacking language is important. This is probably where the "please use "I feel" statements" come in....


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## Paddington

I should add: I made up that scenario, I did not see it today or recently.


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## Kitsune6

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
"*Be kind. If you can't be kind, then be Quiet*."

I so need this to be a bumper sticker!!

I want to join too!!


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## CorasMama

Count me in!


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## Imogen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I think it's a good idea to strive to remember that we are dealing with real people, with real feelings.

I sometimes fall off the Nice wagon but I try not to let that happen very often.
Like my former sig said "*Be kind. If you can't be kind, then be Quiet*."









:

Subbing here!!!


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## mothertoall

I'm in....I hate flaming....I try very hard to never say anything negative , and only give support....my mom also taught me "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything".


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## daekini

me!


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaughterOfKali* 
I think it's a good idea to strive to remember that we are dealing with real people, with real feelings.

I sometimes fall off the Nice wagon but I try not to let that happen very often.
Like my former sig said "*Be kind. If you can't be kind, then be Quiet*."

Beautiful. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said,

"Open minds come with mouths that close. Closed minds come only with mouths that open."

Sort of the same idea and made me think of the quote you shared.

Remember to update your sig lines, mamas, if you want to!


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I am wondering what everyone thinks flaming is, specifically?

Is it being hostile? Is it arguing? Is it provoking or baiting people?

Just curious.


I was trying to define that, too. I found this quote online, I am looking for the source again...

"Flaming is hostility sans content or relevance. Flaming is inflammatory, vicious, gratuitously nasty, malicious, spiteful diatribe. Flaming is not only bullying manipulative provocation against the target, but also manipulative intimidation and aversion more widely, for the purpose of online Relational Bullying,"

To me, flaming is when one purposefully comments on another's situation or words with the conscious intent to belittle or insult them, put them down, and/or pass hostile judgement without any attempt or feeling of mercy, empathy, or compassion. To me, flaming is the opposite of merciful, empathetic, compassionate, and friendly conversation.

I also think that making statements in reply like, "you think _____ " (telling others what they think or feel) are hostility provoking and bound for argument.

What do you all think?


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## eco_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I am wondering what everyone thinks flaming is, specifically?

Is it being hostile? Is it arguing? Is it provoking or baiting people?

Just curious.

I would say that I see it the way Wikipedia describes it here.


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## Paddington

This totally says it for me: *"Flaming is hostility sans content or relevance."*


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## mamasgroovin

OK. I promise not to flame.


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## Salihah

Sending a big hug to you all!










Hope your day is great!


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## Salihah

Corasmama...CONGRATULATIONS on your marriage!! I just saw your sig line!

WELCOME to all the mamas joining us!!


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## Salihah

This discussion is really insightful, mamas, thank you so much!

I am wondering, what things can we do to prevent flaming? We've talked about "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content. But do you think there are ways of posting/writing that possibly invite flamming responses more so than other ways? My idea is that maybe it isn't always the one that responds, but perhaps also the original post? I have no idea or specifics in mind, but it just came up when I was thinking, if maybe there are ways to even head off a mama giving a flaming response more so than others? What do you think?

I also want to add, I hope this thread doesn't turn into a MDC bash or a place to voice complaints about other threads, as the mod gently mentioned. As we all know flamming happens all over the www, sadly. I'm glad we're all coming together here in a positive way to work for solutions, understanding to this common internet communication plague, and to pledge our commitment to productive and positive posting online.


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## summerbabe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Live4Today* 
This discussion is really insightful, mamas, thank you so much!

I am wondering, what things can we do to prevent flaming? We've talked about "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content. But do you think there are ways of posting/writing that possibly invite flamming responses more so than other ways? My idea is that maybe it isn't always the one that responds, but perhaps also the original post? I have no idea or specifics in mind, but it just came up when I was thinking, if maybe there are ways to even head off a mama giving a flaming response more so than others? What do you think?

I'm not sure about the original post question, but I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement. Expressing disagreement is fine, as is lively debate, but both can be done respectfully. The dynamic that I think is so pervasive and destructive here is the underlying theme in so many posts not of "I disagree" or "here's another way to look at it," but rather "OBVIOUSLY (you idiot), you're doing it all wrong." People often point out that tone is easily misunderstood in internet discussions, and that can be true at times, but I think more often than not tone can be and is pretty clearly conveyed by the written word. And of course, blatantly judgemental and belittling language is crystal clear regardless of "tone"







.


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## Jeanne D'Arc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summerbabe* 
I'm not sure about the original post question, but I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement. Expressing disagreement is fine, as is lively debate, but both can be done respectfully. The dynamic that I think is so pervasive and destructive here is the underlying theme in so many posts not of "I disagree" or "here's another way to look at it," but rather "OBVIOUSLY (you idiot), you're doing it all wrong." People often point out that tone is easily misunderstood in internet discussions, and that can be true at times, but I think more often than not tone can be and is pretty clearly conveyed by the written word. And of course, blatantly judgemental and belittling language is crystal clear regardless of "tone"







.

I agree, we should be able to disagree just... in a civil manner.

I also think it might be a good idea if someone does flame you
after you have been as polite and diplomatic as you can the
best thing to do would probably either leave the conversation
or ignore the poster. Of course depending...if the person
genuinely thinks you are in error you can try explaining yourself
but, like I said if it becomes just some excuse to smear you then
I would leave it be.

I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe. I think we might see some turn around here
if there were several mommas who spoke out, and reprimanded flaming.

Now, the job for us is to discern the line between truly warranted
flaming ( which I, so far have rarely seen here ) and someone who
is getting attacked undeservedly. It's also important to address
TRUE concern when it is apparent, but I can usually tell
true concern from blatant castigating.


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe.

Great perspective and idea!


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summerbabe* 
I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement.

I agree!







That's why I mentioned "to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content" in the same sentence. I've learned so much about myself from discussion from another's perspective, and there is a whole world of perspective out there, as unique as each of us. Like the PP have been saying, nice and respectful can be done in many contexts of discussion, even debate.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 
I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe. I think we might see some turn around here
if there were several mommas who spoke out, and reprimanded flaming.

Now, the job for us is to discern the line between truly warranted
flaming ( which I, so far have rarely seen here ) and someone who
is getting attacked undeservedly. It's also important to address
TRUE concern when it is apparent, but I can usually tell
true concern from blatant castigating.

This would actually be against the User Agreement:

Quote:

Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
and

Quote:

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands. Let us try to resolve the situation. Simply alert the moderator of the forum or the Board Administrator.
Also, we're coming close to crossing the line about discussing other threads negatively and discussing the behavior of other members, even though we're not naming them. That needs to stop, please. Thanks!


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## User101

I was thinking about this last night and want to clarify.

You may discuss your own behavior here. You may not discuss other members' behavior, named or not. Feel free to PM me with any questions.


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## Salihah

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 

Also, we're coming close to crossing the line about discussing other threads negatively and discussing the behavior of other members, even though we're not naming them. That needs to stop, please. Thanks!









Thanks so much annettemarie! Could you please tell us which posts here in this thread have talked negatively about other threads or members specifically? From what I've read, we're just been discussing the issue of flamming in general as an issue unique to online communication across the www, how to understand it, and solutions to prevent or turn such conversation back to productive and beneficial discussion. I personally am interested in this as a communications major, seeing online communication as a relatively new phenonmenon with its own dynamics unique from communication as we've known it in the past. I personally have never had a flamming issue here at MDC.

I was wondering where we had mentioned specific members or threads in our discussion here? That way we can prevent doing so in the future.









Thank you for checking in with us and helping us stay on track with MDC.


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## mamasgroovin

I do not think that any infractions have occurred just yet, it is my thought that AM is saying that we cannot confront one who is flaming as a PP suggested or support someone who is being flamed, as that would be taking a direct issue with a member, YK? It kind of all goes back to the whole idea of _If you can't say anything nice..._

I foresee this as a problem with this tribe. While we can make all the promises and pledges we choose to be nice and considerate, we can't tell anyone else what to do. _*I*_ make a pledge not to flame, but beyond that, I don't believe I nor anyone else should interfere with another's issue. Should someone need support, I can do that. But isn't unflaming really just another form of flaming?

If a poster is having an issue, perhaps she needs to bring that to the attention of a mod.

I don't mean to bring negativity here, it's just my thought that I am willing to not flame and support that movement but interfering is another issue. Perhaps just by having an anti-flaming tribe, folks will get the idea, YK? I like the idea of the non-flaming mamas insignia. The power of positive thinking.

Just some random thoughts here!


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## mom2PJS

Trying to see if I added this to my sig line. If not I promise not to flame myself, but I am feeling a bit uh challenged


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## mom2PJS

OK that's not quite it and I'm afraid I might be breaking some taboo rule or something. I tried to follow the instructions earlier in this thread but I guess I need some help.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow

We can come here to discuss things that we are concerned about that may be flamable on other threads. Basically, we can support each other in a non-flaming environment (as long as the topics don't fall under a UAV). What we can't do is to talk about other threads or other posters actions or our own actions on other thread. The part about promising to come to the aid of someone being flamed is in essence crossing that line, because it is talking about our actions in other threads. Confusing I know!







:









I have a question. Do people practice non-flaming IRL? I am really good with most people, but I occassionally flame my dh.







I'm working on it though! Why is it so much harder to not flame people that we love and are so close to than it is to not flame posters here that we don't know IRL?


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## Jeanne D'Arc

I do my best to not flame IRL, but sometimes i do get really pissy









The best thing to do ( and I know it can be hard for us women ) is
to apologize when we do this if it is unwarranted. Admit we were wrong
and do our best to prevent it next time. Be prepared for an awestruck
DH !

I am doing allot of glandular and hormone support so it doesn't happen
too often.

However there are times when you need to "chew" out someone. If
it's bad enough.

For example, my husband sometimes forgets to feed our daughter...
one night I came in and went to give her some crackers to snack
on and her little hands basically ripped the crackers from my hands
and shoved them into her mouth with her hands shaking horribly.

I almost cried and asked her if she was hungry and she answered
affirmative. That wasn't the first time that has happened. So yes
he got chewed out.

However if someone were to say , leave a dish on the table I don't
think that would be a warranted flame-fest.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

I do my best to not flame IRL, but sometimes i do get really pissy









The best thing to do ( and I know it can be hard for us women ) is
to apologize when we do this if it is unwarranted. Admit we were wrong
and do our best to prevent it next time. Be prepared for an awestruck
DH !

I am doing allot of glandular and hormone support so it doesn't happen
too often.

However there are times when you need to "chew" out someone. If
it's bad enough.

For example, my husband sometimes forgets to feed our daughter...
one night I came in and went to give her some crackers to snack
on and her little hands basically ripped the crackers from my hands
and shoved them into her mouth with her hands shaking horribly.

I almost cried and asked her if she was hungry and she answered
affirmative. That wasn't the first time that has happened. So yes
he got chewed out.

However if someone were to say , leave a dish on the table I don't
think that would be a warranted flame-fest.









Yup! Dh would definately get an earful if he did that. I have lost it on him, occassionally, when I'm just in a super cranky mood and he does something like leaving the plate on the table that I just cleaned off. Definatley not a horrible thing, just bad timing.









Then there are the times that I really have no remorse. Like when I came home and was listening to my 8,6, and 3 year old playing and I hear my 3 year old say, "I'm juggernaut, b*tch!" and run headlong into a wall.







It seems that he thought it was absolutely okay to let them watch X-men 3. He's done the same thing with Ghost Busters and a few other movies. sigh. Though, to be honest, he only stopped when we sat down and had a long talk about what was and was not appropriate for the children, regardless of what he watched when he was younger. But I did feel a bit better after chewing him out!


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## jamsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamasgroovin* 
But isn't unflaming really just another form of flaming?

I think you might be onto something here. I guess I didn't really get the definition of non-flaming, because my non-flaming came across as flaming.


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## redsfree

Rock'n idea; I'm in!

Can we also pledge to support by sharing our experiences as oppose to telling other people what to do? Just because something works for my family doesn't mean it will always work for another family. When posting a response to a question, I try to share my own experience with the problem, and the OP can either take it or leave it. It bothers me when I see posts that are basically a To-Do list.

I think people learn (and teach) better through example (experience).


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## menomena

This is a great idea. I'm in.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow

For those who celebrated it, I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving. It was great, but I'm sure glad it's over.







Now the buld up to the winter holidays. I'm trying to go as stress free as possible this year. I'm doing my shopping on line, as much as I can. I'm just trying to enjoy the season without falling into the impending doom feeling I get when I get overwhelmed at this time of year.

I think the the stress of the season often rears it's head on MDC too. So it is something to be aware of.


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## gingerstar

I'm in! Now to try to fit it in my siggie.....


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## melissakc

What a wonderful idea. Count me in!


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## Peacemamalove

I would LOVE to join too!!! Awesome idea!!


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## jsmith2279

I want to join as well! You don't need to be nasty to speak a differing viewpoint!


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## ilikethedesert

I agree with lots of what has been said above and love the pp about offering your experiences. Others don't need to necessarily agree, but stating something that happened to you is a nice way to say what you need to without hurting someones feelings.

So many mamas, (and pops) open their hearts on these boards and talk about things they may not be able to in person. I think it is important to feel safe here and know no one is going to say something hurtful.

Great thread!







:


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## mom2PJS

OK it has taken almost a month, but I got my sig right... finally.


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## Jeanne D'Arc

Just sending a renewal of non-flaming commitment for '08~!!


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## *LoveBugMama*

Fantastic idea!








I`m in!


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## Dr.Worm

I want to join but how come when I tried to click on the link to the thread that started it all it said I don't have permission to see it? WWWAAAHH


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## mom2PJS

Serenity now. Serenity now. I just had to work really hard to reword something and delete all flaming inuendos so that I could stay in this tribe. Thank you for lending me strength to not flame a flamer, and just lend support to the OP.


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## Jeanne D'Arc

It is hard isnt it?

I always find myself wanting to flame back a flamer.
And some of us will slip up, just because you flame back doesnt
mean you would be banished from this tribe. If you find yourself
flaming just dust yourself off and recommit









I do think some people need a gentle reprimand now and then , though.







:


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## RedOakMomma

Rock on non-flamers!







I'm saving my siggy space for Obama, but I'm definitely a fan of sharing and feeling the love!!


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## Jeanne D'Arc

:bump

We need some more non-flaming sisters!


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## kalisis

I want to join!


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## FREEmom1120

I want to join. I said something mean on a thread yesterday about someone not on MDC, but I've repented now







and would like to be considered a non-flamer.


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## abiyhayil

loving parents can be loving people!


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## SeekingSerenity

I've promised myself a long time ago not to flame in posts, because it (kind of) happened to me and even though it was nothing really major, it did hurt. So although I am out of room in my siggy, I still would like to join your tribe!


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## redsfree

Let's choose to focus on our similarities as oppose to our differences. Even if we make different parenting choices, we are all still parents trying to figure out our path and do good by our family.







:


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## Indigo73

I'm in.


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## fullhandsfullheart

Count me in!


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## crunchyconmomma

I'm certainly in.
I have in years past, been part of flaming and it has always left me worse for the wear.
I have come to a new place in life and seek to promote peace. This most certainly is a promotion of peace. I may never see your face, but I feel your energy and you mine. As one humankind, there are no new thoughts or ideas, so I too have had the ones from you with which I may disagree and I therefore, have no place flaming you for being me.


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## luckysam

Love it! I am happy to join! I think respect is the key to joy and peace







:














:


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## brightonwoman

hey, what an awesome thread to
















And i'm in. i'llh ave to see if i can fit it into my sig.


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## Miss 1928

: Don't we agree not to flame when we sign the UA?


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## AFWife

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfTheMeadow* 
I am perfectly happy to give support when asked for. I can be honest and true to myself without belittling and hurting someone elses feelings. I will always post with respect and knowledge that I am actually speaking to a real life person with real life feelings.

You said it really well!

I've been on the receiving end of "flame parties" on a different board (I actually left because of constant attacks on my belief system and personal integrity) so I'm totally in!


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## loovagreevy

.


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## lovbeingamommy

Ok, I just joined and added to my sig. I am in support of positive, supportive conversations that maintain _respectfulness_ for all.


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## BennyPai

Adding this to my sig! I think it's a great reminder for us all.


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## Meggitty

_*I want to join your tribe, I believe in the same way of living!








:~Meg

Pregnant with new sweet baby due in April, momma to DS (3,) and wifey to DH*_


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## LabileLotus

Subbing


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## MittensKittens

I'm in!


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## euro

I'm a non-flamer too! Sign me up!


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## AutumnAir

Count me in too!


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