# Activism to protect children from parents who subject them to 'Passion'



## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

What is everyone doing to advocate for children who's parents are abusing them by bringing them to 'The Passion'?

I've heard of families organizing to intervene when a child is at risk of being exposed to this ultra gore. But I haven't yet heard of advocacy for those poor children who already were brought to this film by their parents.


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

I think this type of idea is overstepping your bounds. I know parents who let their children regularly watch many R rated movies that I would never allow in my home. Are you going after these parents as well?


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

No, not those parents.

I'm not 'going after' anyone, btw. There are bigger groups who work to protect children and there isn't nearly enough money or activism for those groups in this country. The children can't speak up and refuse, often times and some sort of intervention or at least, dissemination of information is needed.

It might be that parents take their child to this movie because they think the child is able to process this sort of violence as an adult brain would and that is not supported by child research. So communicating this to parents could be a start to help the children.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

ITA with Rebecca.

And when you say "children", what age group are you specifically targeting?

I think it's a reach to call it "abuse" when you don't know specific circumstances. Especially when so many young children are appearing at "R" rated movies (I've seen them there) - not to mention what they are watching at home









Personally, I'd rather my kids see "The Passion of the Christ" rather than, say, a Quentin Tarantino movie. However, they are too young/sensitive either way so it's a non-issue at our house. I think my two older kids could handle "The Passion" at 15-16 yrs.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Sorry, what do the other R rated movies have to do with viewing 'The Passion' as a young child?







:


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## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

Sorry, what do the other R rated movies have to do with viewing 'The Passion' as a young child?
I think it has everything to do with it. Why single out one R rated movie over another? Yes, from what I have heard "Passion" is an intense experience and quite gory. But so are alot of other movies I would not take my young children to see. Hell, I won't let my kids watch the LOTRs. But that is my choice for my children because I know them.

R Rated = anyone under 17 must be accompanied by an adult. The movie will involve sex, violance, language, nudity or a combination of any of the above. R rated doesn't mean people under 17 are legally prohibited from seeing it or that parents who do opt to allow their children to watch it with their supervision are "abusive". I think it is a pretty far stretch and minimalizes the impact of true child abuse.

Do I think it is wise to take a child you know will be emotional incapable of understanding what is going on in any movie (regardless of rating)? No, but only a parent is really going to know that.


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

Ok, I wouldn't show this movie to my preschooler but come on!

How about some activism to save children from MTV!


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Oh, that makes more sense, thank you! Yes, there are a lot of horrible movies out there, including 'The Passion'.

I do think it is psycholgically abusive, though. Sorry.

I disagree that only a parent is going to really know that. There is science that tells us pretty darn well what a small child's (or adolescent)'s brain does with media violence, such as viewing 'The Passion' and it isn't good.

A child could grow into an adult and choose to see R rated films. Why can't parents let the child mature first is what I'm wondering. Why the need to show the child this type of violence now?


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Paxetbonum, I am fully in support of protecting children from Mtv!

As Bill Cosby said, those videos on Mtv are 'like a nightmare put to music'.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:

*Yes, there are a lot of horrible movies out there, including 'The Passion'.

I do think it is psycholgically abusive, though. Sorry.*
So, you've seen the movie, then?


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

I've seen the movie and I would be hesitant to let a child under 14 see it. On the other had I've seen movies with content and language much more offensive than The Passion.

Sorry if I came out to strong. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of other people trying to intervene with others parenting styles.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

gardening mom, welcome to MDC. Activism is a tough board. Put on your thickest skin!

I could see that you might have seen movies with more cuss words than the Passion. But content? Roger Ebert says it is the most violent movie he has ever seen and would have ben NC 17 if it were about anyone other than Jesus Christ.

So what feature film have you seen that is more violent than this one? This movie is 120 mins and has 100 mins of torture. Just curious.

playdoh, I have read some churches that take busloads of kids to see this, then have a discussion period afterwards wherein they emphasize the Jew's "deicide." The children then go to school and abuse their Jewish classmates. This compounds the problem. What can be done?


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## zealsmom (Nov 22, 2001)

My sister took her 11 yo to see this and I gave her absolute hell for it. In the end, it is her decision, but I still feel like I can let me position be known.

For the record, I would much rather have my child hear a few "bad" words or see a loving sex scene than be subjected to violence.


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## MaryKate (Dec 6, 2003)

A friend of mine saw "The Passion" and said(she is a christian) it was not the most violant ever to come out of Hollywood! But then another friend of ours said she had to close her eyes through most of the movie. So it all depends on what kind of movies you seen in the past and what kind of person you are(sensitive etc,.).
I think once you seen quite a few of the war movies that come out violence doesn't bother you as much. Personally I would not let a child go see The Passion just because of the level of understanding they have , they would not even be able to comprehend what is going on. jmho!


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## Knittin' in the Shade (Feb 14, 2003)

I think there are a lot of other, more important, activism stands you could take then to worry about *saving* the kids who are exposed to THePassion. It's obvious your disdain for this movies, and the religion it signifies, runs deep. But it's no worse that grand theft auto, or any number of other violent images kids are xposed to. Are you going to try to help those kids as well?


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## kanpope (Mar 12, 2003)

You seem to be making a strong judgement, I have not seen a very important question answered...

*Have you seen The Passion?*


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

Daryll









I'm embarrased to admit some of the movies I've seen. Okay here it goes Platoon, Saving Private Ryan, BlackHawk Down, when I was young Halloween (UGH, I've never watched another), you get the picture. There was one recently and I can't remember the name where these goon captured people and ate them







. I guess I didn't really know what that one was about till I got there. My dh loves movies so I see more than I need to.


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## honey (Nov 28, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kanpope_
*You seem to be making a strong judgement, I have not seen a very important question answered...

Have you seen The Passion?*

I am just wondering why it matters wether she has seen it or not?

If Roger Ebert says it is the most violent thing he has seen, I certainly don't want to see it. Geez, Titanic traumatized me.

I think that Playdo's point is valid. Violent movies, about Christ or war, or whatever have no place in children's lives. Does anyone disagree with that????

With all due respect, please tell me how any person, child or adult, will benefit from watching The Passion.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Haven't seen it, don't plan to, will not send our children to see it either--DS decided on his own he doesn't want to(nice to know he's listening when we talk







).

That said, it's not my job to protect other kids from something their own parents have decided for them to see. I don't have to agree with it, but it's not my place to parent others' children. I think raising a child in a hyper-legalistic, guilt-inducing, bigotry-encouraging church is abusive too, but that's not my decision is it? I'm sure the neighbors doing that consider our raising our children to be liberal, accepting of others' differences, and NonChristian to be bordering on some level of abuse too. That's part of what the freedoms of this country are all about, whether we agree with the different decisions made or not, we all have the freedom to make them.

I think it's the theaters' job to remind parents of the ratings and why the rating is what it is. It's not like there hasn't been any warning about the violence and gore in this movie. Any parent who claims not to have known before taking their child has had to have their head in the sand up to their navel to not know what they're getting into.

I don't see how the subject matter or source material makes this gore acceptable while stuff like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers would not be, but that's just me.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

So, gardeningmom, you are saying all of those movies are just as violent as The Passion?

I saw Saving PR and the first 15 minutes were horrifying. But the Passion has 100 mins of torture. More quantity, see?

The 2003 movie Cold Mountain was decried for its violence as well. But it had more love/friendship and humor and cheerful beautiful music interspersed in it. Yes, I took my 12yo, 15 yo and 17 yo to see it, after seeing it first w/dh. I did think it would be a good Civil War lesson. It was balanced.

I am not so sure the love factor in the Passion comes thru as it did in Cold Mt.

My born again Christian co-worker said she saw it, had to close her eyes for most of it, and cried for 2 days afterwards. She also said she and her dh of 2 yrs took his 23 yo gay dd to it, as her dh feels responsible for what is bad about her, the dd. They interpret gayness as bad you see. I guess they hoped she would get the gayness scared out of her or something. This dd is also a Christian. She told them, "Thanks for doing the Jesus thing on me,







: " afterwards.

At least she is an adult and can articulate her feelings of resentment. What about an 8 or 12 yr old who can't?


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## gardeningmom (Mar 4, 2004)

I guess I'm saying seeing those other movies, that I didn't finding it shocking. They had flashbacks of Jesus's life that showed his kindess intermixed. I was standing in line at Wal-Mart and a magazine front page said it was the most shocking violence, and I thought you've got to be kidding. I've seen some of the garbage that has come out of hollywood.

I haven't seen Cold Mountain yet or Monster, but they were mentioned a lot at the Oscars.


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## kanpope (Mar 12, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by honey_
*I am just wondering why it matters wether she has seen it or not?
If Roger Ebert says it is the most violent thing he has seen, I certainly don't want to see it. Geez, Titanic traumatized me.
I think that Playdo's point is valid. Violent movies, about Christ or war, or whatever have no place in children's lives. Does anyone disagree with that????
With all due respect, please tell me how any person, child or adult, will benefit from watching The Passion.*
I do agree that violent movies nor those with strong sexual content belong in the live's of young children. I would not take my children to see The Passion but I can see why some might take older children (beyond the age of reason).
When you ask who will benefit from seeing it, I have to know first...Are you Christian? Are you a practicing Christian?

I am comfortable answering the question but I would like to know from which perspective you are coming from?

IMO, if you are not Christian, you would not understand the core, spiritual reasons for seeing this movie. At the same time, there are lots of people that will go see this movie for the same reason they went to go see Saving Private Ryan or any of those grotesque war movies ~ they like it. For Christians, it is more than that.

My 2c


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

I did not see the film, yes. Wasn't avoiding the question, just didn't see that skellebelle finally edited her post to let us all know to whom her question addressed.

DaryLLL, had no idea that was going on (children brought by the busload to this horror film). I'm even more distressed! To your question, I don't know what can be done, sadly.

I do not disdain the 'religion it signifies' because, frankly, I don't know which religion Mel Gibson drew upon for this film. I'm pretty sure I know which religions he didn't care to consult, but like I said, as far as 'the religion' for this film, it isn't clear to me at all.

To say, there are bigger fish to fry' is patronizing. Activism for protecting children is always worthy. At least Jesus seemed to think so.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:

IMO, if you are not Christian, you would not understand the core, spiritual reasons for seeing this movie.
Then it will be an abysmal failure as an evangelical tool to bring non believers to Christ, from this POV.


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## Journey (Jun 12, 2002)

Uhhhh.... yeah. And how about an activism attempt at protecting children from parents who subject them to the Bible?







:

I wouldn't let my kids see it because they don't understand yet why Jesus died, and what a crucifixtion entailed. If they did, I wouldn't have a problem letting them see it.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Journey_
*Uhhhh.... yeah. And how about an activism attempt at protecting children from parents who subject them to the Bible?







:
*
The dreaded eyeroll.

What I'm discussing is media violence in the form of this '100 minutes of visual violence' film.

NOT the Bible story read to kids.


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## Journey (Jun 12, 2002)

The movie is the same violence portrayed in the Bible. The Bible is even more violent at times. Am I the only person who visualizes what is read?

This is violence with a purpose, not random violence with no rhyme or reason. There's a BIG difference.


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kanpope_
*I would not take my children to see The Passion but I can see why some might take older children (beyond the age of reason).
*
IIRC, the "age of reason" is considered to be 7. Do you honestly think this an appropriate movie for a second grader?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Anyway, back on topic of organizing activism to protect kids from this movie:

What do you think we should do (directed to anyone who thinks we SHOULD be doing something)

I think we could call local theatres and discuss our concerns with the manager and also point out the age guidelines for this film and ask if they are being/will be enforced.


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## PurpleBasil (Jan 28, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Journey_
*This is violence with a purpose, not random violence with no rhyme or reason. There's a BIG difference.*
Then why is there a post war trauma syndrome? First hand witnessing of a rhyme & reason violence in war.

Why is there PTSD for rape victims? Why do children witnessing consistent, repetitive violent imagery have emotional fall-out?

Does the AAP warn against only 'random violence' witnessed by kids or all violent images?

I can see it now: 'AAP says violent images with rhyme or reason pose no emotional risk to children'.

BTW, I found that my visualization of the Bible story of Christ didn't match Mel Gibson's visualization of the same. What are the odds of that?


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## Journey (Jun 12, 2002)

Is there actually rhyme or reason to war or rape? Does that violence always make sense?

If the child is too young to make sense of the violence behind Passion, then they shouldn't see it, sure.


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## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

I have very mixed feelings about this movie, but I will say "HANDS DOWN" that it is *the most* violent movie I have ever been exposed to in my life. Now, I say that, but understand I also do not see movies like Pulp Fiction and the like, because I can't handle very well even the portrayal of the cruelty that we actually do see IRL. In the instance of movies of substance ... I go and view it ... like Saving Private Ryan, for instance. There are some things I feel I 'need' to see ... which is why I chose to see The Passion.

In response to the OP, I do not feel that there should be a movement to keep parents from being able to take their children to the movie any more than any other violent Rated R or NC 17 movie that is released. I WOULD NOT take my oldest (she's 7) and I recommended to my best friend not to take her 11 year old son. I am not quite certain what age is appropriate though ... couldn't set that standard. Heck, I wouldn't see it again - couldn't possibly see it again and I'm 31.









I do know that our youth group director and others in other faiths are taking the youth to see it. And they are requiring signed consent from parents - as well, the movie theaters here require it in groups. They are following it up with conversation as well. It has been explained that this is a question/answer time and for those of the Protestant and Catholic faiths, I believe it is also a time to reveal what scripture they believe the movie is based upon.

If I had a teenager that wanted to see this movie and I felt could handle it ... I would feel that taking them myself (me and my dh) would be best. I do not know if I feel that it is a good idea to bus teens to this movie - I know that kids feel the need to be 'cool' or 'accepted' in larger groups at times (that is a 'stereotype,' I recognize ... but ykwim) and what if they wanted to leave ... but were too embarrassed? Or what if it was too overwhelming and they internalized it with no means of expression? I just think this movie, if viewed by young adults, teens, whatever ... that needs to be in the comforts of their family or trusted friends.

My head was BURIED in my husband's arm during the scourging. From the first hit to the last. I left twice for release and to wipe my face from all the tears. Why did I go see it? Well, I am a Christian and there are times when I feel the reality helps pull me out of my "Sunday School" picture of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is my faith. It is what I believe and therefore, I exposed myself to it. But would I expose my children without knowing they fully understood the cross and its meaning? No, wouldn't do it. Would I advocate for others to lose control of this decision for their own families either for or against? No, I wouldn't do that either.


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## IslandMamma (Jun 12, 2003)

ARGH, computer just ate my long, passionate post. Grr.

I totally agree with the OP that forcing children to watch T.P.O.C. is cjild abuse. And the argument that they see other violent movies doesn't hold water IMO, either-- you don't see groups of parents sending busloads of children off to see Tarantino's "Kill Bill", do you?

Do we really need to burden our children with any more grief, guilt, and confusion? As if the world they live in isn't troubling enough? If you want to re-inforce the message of Jesus, then for goodness sake teach them about tolerance, unconditional love, and compassion. Don't send them to a 120 minute flogging session.

I just visited my folks in upstate NY (why I've been unusually quiet here on activism for a week







), and their town has special screening of T.P.O.C..... I asked about the children viewing policy, and was told that they were making a special allowance due to circumstance. I have contacted Regal Cinemas and expressed my displeasure (to put it mildly) and questioned the legality of such a move.

The utter hypocrisy of the media and the so-called devout Christians on this issue has me stunned. I cannot, for the life of me, see anything loving and good about insisting a child watch this movie.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Well said, Heather. Thank you for a more comprehensive point of view.

Our Youth Group director has talked about taking the kids (aged 12-16) to the film. I spoke up and said that, based on what I'd heard about the movie so far (I haven't yet had the opportunity to see it), I didn't think that was a good idea; and wouldn't let my ds (13) see it - he is mature enough but just waaaaaayy too sensitive to be able to handle it.

I wouldn't want anyone else making that decision for me, though.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Some of my children have watched it, some have not.

I wouldn't advocate *forcing* anyone to watch the film but my older children really wanted to watch it so they went with their dad.

It provoked a lot of conversation afterward.

I won't watch the film because I cannot watch Jesus being tortured, it's too much for me emotionally.

I wouldn't want my children to watch it without one of us along for the ride. I think it's good for older children but I cannot envision Julianna watching it, not now no need for her innocence to be lost she will likely face harsh realities in due time.

DB


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

Just like I'm more offended by priests that abuse than little league coaches, taking a kid to see Passion worries me because I'd hate for that to have a negative impact on a child's faith (assuming they're christian of course)...I just don't believe in messing with someone's faith, you know? And I just think focus on the resurrection is more appropriate for young people until they gradually learn more about the realities of life and death. It just seems more old testment to me to focus on the blood-drenched Christ than the resurrected Christ. (a recent Washington post article pointed out that the former is more catholic and the latter more protestant, generally...) Confronted with the scale of the sacrifice involved seems too much before a child is ready...and the resurrection is what really separates that death from many other similar events. For a child of other faiths, I group it like any other violent movie. I'd advocate restricting all R movies to under 1yo and over 13 or so with parent, and in between not at all parent or not. Seeing young children 4-6 at Kill Bill really disturbed me. (mother is slaughtered in front of young child, twice!) Fine, they'll see it on DVD, but that's in a private home. I don't think I as an audience member I should have to tacitly agree that having young children see this stuff is ok.


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## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Clarity_
*It just seems more old testament to me to focus on the blood-drenched Christ than the resurrected Christ.*
I would have liked for more than a 60 second 'recognition' of the resurrection after the grueling experience of the sacrifice.

Interestingly enough... a Jewish friend of mine I respect recently pointed out to me that "Old Testament" can be somewhat of an offensive descriptive as those of the Jewish faith do not consider that collection of books to be the "Old Testament," but THE Testament. So, I can see where this idea of the blood-drenched Christ being "Old Testament" could come across very anti-semitic. (to CLARIFY Clarity







I am not calling YOU anti-semitic) But then, that is a topic for Spirituality, eh. Sorry.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

I have not read the entire thread. I will go back and read it though.

I am so upset over this situation. I agree you cannot dictate what people let their children do... BUT (there it is) I do think that the word needs to get out that it is not appropriate.

MY NEIGHBOR TOOK HER 9 YEAR OLD SON TO SEE THIS MOVIE!

I have lost complete and total respect for her and her parenting. (There is more to than just this movie obviously). I mentioned this to my sister and she said - Did she not read about the movie? Of course not! My point is that if the information is more available, regarding the violence and unsuitable content, then maybe people would be more willing to make an intelligent decision. Education - that's it - we should educate people.

HAHHAAHAHHHA --- I just cracked myself up - who am I kidding - the information is out there - people are just stupid!

And you can't change that!


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Journey - JMHO but I really feel like your sarcasm is a little over the top!

Playdoh mentioned that she would protect children from violent stories and not the Bible. You responded that the Bible WAS violent....

.

Quote:

The movie is the same violence portrayed in the Bible. The Bible is even more violent at times. Am I the only person who visualizes what is read?

I don't know about you - but my children (and most kids for that matter) read a children's Bible - which is FAR cry from any adult version that I would read


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

Heather - it is offensive when you say old testament to mean Jewish, so I see your point, ...however, I don't mean jewish, since what's included in the old testament is not the same as Jewish holy writings, or jewish religion. Abraham was a prophet for muslims too. but I don't think the OT is Islamic either.. What Christians choose to look as as God's word before the coming of Christ has a lot of blood and violence and vengeance. And some christians stay stuck there - thats the attitude I mean. A Christian attitude. Since I don't think, from my limited knowledge of Judaism that a christian interpretation of the OT has much of anything to do with actual Judaism. And if you're Jewish, you don't think the Messiah has come yet. So it would make my whole statement kind of nonsensical.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I, too, believe it is emotional abuse to allow a child watch 100 solid minutes of torture and gore. If it affects us grown-ups to the point where we cry and shake - sometimes for a couple of days - can you even imagine the sheer horror a little one would experience?
Sorry, but a youth group going to see this movie....... how can I word this properly?...... it's not okay to terrorize little ones to push your agenda - religious or not - down their throats. It's revolting. Watching a man being tortured for 100 minutes and letting children watch to further your religious agenda is not okay. JMO.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Speaking from a non-Xtian POV in a Xtian country...

We can hardly protect our pagan and Jewish kids from Xtian images of a dead and bloody Christ. I resent this. I avoided the subject of the crucifixion even tho I knew my young children had seen crucifixes here and there. In fact, my 8 yo dd's girl scout troop met in the Sunday and private school wing of a Catholic church and there was a half life size one in the hall. And a dark and gloomy life size saint statue of some sort in the stair well leading up to the bathroom.

She told me if she had to "go" during girl scouts, she just held it.

The day they asked me point blank what the deal was with this guy on a cross, I remember with sadness. I did not enjoy telling them this was a common toture instrument from the olden days and was the central symbol of our country's leading religion.

So yes, I do think kids should be protected from violent images in the Bible, including the Noahs Ark story that is made to seem so cute but isn't.


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## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Clarity_
*What Christians choose to look as as God's word before the coming of Christ has a lot of blood and violence and vengeance. And some christians stay stuck there - thats the attitude I mean.*
Oh heck yea ... I'm following you.







I agree that the death was a 'part,' but certainly not what I like to focus on. Which is another thing I'm in disagreement with regarding the movie, b/c it really does FOCUS on JUST the death. Of course, to me the death is meaningless without the resurrection.


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## kanpope (Mar 12, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Arduinna_
*Anyway, back on topic of organizing activism to protect kids from this movie:

What do you think we should do (directed to anyone who thinks we SHOULD be doing something)

I think we could call local theatres and discuss our concerns with the manager and also point out the age guidelines for this film and ask if they are being/will be enforced.*
There is being something done! *It is rated R!* Children under the age of 17 should not view this film. Parents that decide to take thier children are only accountable to themselves and thier children.

In regards to the whole religion topic, it is soooooo







T. Are we debating the Bible and Religion or are we discussing parents allowing thier children to view movies inappropriate for thier age and/or maturity level?

Let's take it away from the Passion and discuss parents allowing thier children to see movies rated R for graphic violence, drug use, mature situations, and nudity instead! Is this a discussion on the generalities of poor decision making on the part of parents in regards to movies or are we talking about Christianity?


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## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Arduinna_
*Anyway, back on topic of organizing activism to protect kids from this movie:

What do you think we should do (directed to anyone who thinks we SHOULD be doing something)

I think we could call local theatres and discuss our concerns with the manager and also point out the age guidelines for this film and ask if they are being/will be enforced.*
In our theater, there was a strong enforcement of signed consent forms from any underaged children not with their parents (as in... were driven in by a church group or like organization).


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

I, for one, addressed both. So pick your poison.

And I think signed consent forms follow the letter but not the spirit of the R regulations. With parent supervision is not the same as "in a group of 30 kids with a youth leader" or "mom bought ticket, will be back in 2 hours."


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## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Clarity_
*And I think signed consent forms follow the letter but not the spirit of the R regulations. With parent supervision is not the same as "in a group of 30 kids with a youth leader" or "mom bought ticket, will be back in 2 hours."*
Yep, exactly what I voiced too ... not sure at what age I would be comfortable allowing this movie to be seen by my teen (if I had one), but it would most certainly be with me and Jeff and not in a youth group.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kanpope_
There is being something done! *It is rated R!* Children under the age of 17 should not view this film. Parents that decide to take thier children are only accountable to themselves and thier children.
I agree. Since when is it enough for a kid to just bring a consent form? Now can any kid just get a consent form to any old R rated movie any old time they want and just go? Shoot, kids can forge those suckers with ease.

Why are theater owners making an exception for this moive, much more violent than most R rated films? Is it legal? Are the theater owners doing it for the good of those Xtian children's souls, or for the $$$? Easy question, right?

Quote:

In regards to the whole religion topic, it is soooooo







T. Are we debating the Bible and Religion or are we discussing parents allowing thier children to view movies inappropriate for thier age and/or maturity level?

Let's take it away from the Passion and discuss parents allowing thier children to see movies rated R for graphic violence, drug use, mature situations, and nudity instead! Is this a discussion on the generalities of poor decision making on the part of parents in regards to movies or are we talking about Christianity?
We are talking about both. Why is this movie being made an exception to the rule of "must be accompanied by parent or legal guardian?" B/c most people must think, well, if its about Jesus, it is good. For everyone. Which is, excuse me, bullsh!t.


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## RowansDad (Mar 27, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Clarity_
*And I think signed consent forms follow the letter but not the spirit of the R regulations.*
Just an FYI.

The movie ratings system is not promulgated law. It is a voluntary system put together by the Motion Picture Association of America (aka "MPAA"), a sort of self-regulating policy the movie industry adopted to keep the government out of the censoring bidness: http://www.mpaa.org/movieratings/.


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

that's why I didn't use the word "law"...I am well aware they are voluntary regulations. They self-regulated so it would not be codified in law, as was done recently with video games, television, and music labeling. By not being a law, I can't see how that changes my statement...the industry, in my opinion, intended for parental supervision, not just permission.


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## RowansDad (Mar 27, 2002)

Sorry, didn't mean to impy you specifically did think it was "law." I had notice in the thread in general that there appeared to be a belief by some that the rating system is "law."


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## honey (Nov 28, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by kanpope_
*When you ask who will benefit from seeing it, I have to know first...Are you Christian? Are you a practicing Christian?

I am comfortable answering the question but I would like to know from which perspective you are coming from?

*

I am not a Christian.


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## Snowy Owl (Nov 16, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by honey_
*I am not a Christian.*
I quite disagree with the statement someone made earlier that non-christians wouldn't/couldn't undertand the religious significance of this movie, or the meaning that it has. Many people who were once christian no longer consider themselves as such. It doesn't mean they don't 'get' it...I really don't think criticism of this film stems from 'not getting' the significance of Christ's suffering.
I think it's pretty obvious that his cruci-fiction has a bit of significance...after all, it's the central symbol of the religion.
To say that this film has anything to do with descriptions in the bible is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion.
Anyway, I don't think we can really expect to stop parents from taking children to see it... how would that work?


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

I agree that people seem to think it is ok for children to see this movie because it is about Christ and therefore the violence is necessary and not as bad as "Natural Born Killers" and "Platoon", etc.

I don't get it. And I don't know what to do. The movie may never come out here where I am though I know a lot of Christians on base have started a petition to get it here (not that it will help!). If it does come here I am sure a ton of kids will be "forced" to see it. I don't know if there is anything I could do... because I certainly can't stop parents from letting their kids watch other violent films. Would these same parents force their kids to see other violent films? I just think the hypocrisy of the whole situation is hilarious!

I know one thing... I don't ever want to hear a Christian say a movie is too violent again! EVER. I don't want to hear people say that violence in youth today is because of violent video games and movies and music and music videos. I mean, if this is supposed to teach people about Christ, why not teach about his love and his teachings? Not his horrific death.


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

a 6th grade public school teacher in DC just showed 60-90 minutes of excerpts, presumably from a pirated DVD, to his classroom without parental knowledge. Not the first time I'm aware of a teacher showing R movies at school.


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## RowansDad (Mar 27, 2002)

Story here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer


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## IslandMamma (Jun 12, 2003)

Oh good grief. How totally outrageous and inappropriate. This is *EXACTLY* why we need activism on this sort of thing.

Again, I'm just stunned by the hypocrisy.

Not only was it wrong to show the movie b/c of the violence, but it's a public school-- religion has no place in the classroom.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Thanks Clarity and RD for letting us know.

I'm honestly appalled at this. I am so glad that my child is HS'd.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by spatulagirl_
*people seem to think it is ok for children to see this movie because it is about Christ*
macchiavelli put it much more succintly: those people are saying the ends justify the means.


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## RowansDad (Mar 27, 2002)

Wonder how many of these scenes are being repeated across the country:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=e...na=1&l=&ns=&t=


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## Snowy Owl (Nov 16, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by RowansDad_
*Wonder how many of these scenes are being repeated across the country: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?p=n...l&ns=&l=&m=&c=*
uke uke uke uke


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## K&JsMaMa (May 26, 2002)

While I've seen the movie and (I can't say *enjoyed* it because that is definately the wrong word) was deeply moved by it, I would NEVER recommend this for a child.

I had a friend who is a pastor's wife ask if she thought it was ok for her 12 yr old, I told her not really. 14 probablly.

My mom went and said there was an 8 yr old there. TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE!!!

It saddens me to think that some parents are taking their young children to this movie in the name of religion. And I am deeply religious. Granted, there are much worse things parent subject their children to, but I think children should learn of the love of Jesus and His teachings first.


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## RowansDad (Mar 27, 2002)

Note that the link in my previous post no longer directs to the intended photo, which was one of a father consoling his clearly shaken son as they headed out of a showing of the subject film. The snap can be seen here: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8040555.htm


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Shame on that father.









I don't understand why this movie isn't NC-17. What is the NC-17 rating for if not for this level of violence?


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## IslandMamma (Jun 12, 2003)

NC-17 seems to be reserved for that most awful of cinematic sins, the dread nekkid booty.

120 minutes of torture and you have a blockbuster, but you show one penis.....







:


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## honey (Nov 28, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by RowansDad_
*Note that the link in my previous post no longer directs to the intended photo, which was one of a father consoling his clearly shaken son as they headed out of a showing of the subject film. The snap can be seen here: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8040555.htm*

I am just furious after seeing that traumatized boy. I'm disgusted with these parents who are deliberately hurting their children. How is this not abusive?
Legal, sure. Moral? NO.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, I wrote an e-mail to Icon Productions with a link to that picture. I don't imagine it will do much good, but it never hurts to try.

Blah... where is the common sense?


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

I am astounded that people bring children to this movie. I did not even want to see this movie, violence for over 80% of a movie gives me pause. Even if I was alive when Jesus was killed I would not have wanted my daughter to watch the event.

I think the only thing that would help children after seeing this movie is a follow-up movie explaining other aspects of Jesus and the Bible. ( even if not a Christian there is more to it then all the gore)

At least this violence was not "cool" violence. I for one was more disturbed by Kill Bill than the Passion. Not because it was less violent but because of how the violence was handled.

I cannot believe that parental consent slips count when the groups get large.

I like self policing for movies but I do think that children under a certain age even if with an adult should not be allowed in some movies. I wish theatres (not the gov't) would have this sort of rule. It makes watching those movies uncomfortable for nearly everyone else in the theatre.


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## Sean (Feb 22, 2004)

I saw _The Passion_. I would not take a young child to see it. My oldest child is three, so it wasn't even a consideration for me. I might have taken a teenager, though, if my kids were that old. And I definitely have no desire to 'protect' teenagers from a movie their parents take them to see.

But that boy in the photo was too young. No way. What was his dad thinking?


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## shine (Nov 20, 2001)

Sean... it's my opinion that he was thinking of himself and his motives and his belief system and WASN"T thinking of his child or his child's perspective or his child's developmental level. Pure, unabashed self-absorption.

For my part, I am Christian (in my own way) and I don't get why people need to recreate the last 12 hours of Christ's life. My feeling is that Christ came to teach us a manner of living that is ethically sound -- *non-materialistic, compassionate, insightful, reflective, non-judgmental* -- but that isn't what is left for us in "Christianity". We have confused the messenger with the message, I believe. In our childlike magical thinking, we have minimized what he had to say (The Word) and magnified the horror of his death as somehow the most important aspect of his life (that and all the editorialized verbosity of the folks who wrote the story). I think it's a sad perspective, and I think we miss the point entirely.

sandi


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

That picture made me







Poor little boy. That is horrendous.


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