# EMERGENCY POST- 15 year old boy doesn't want to be circumcised. NEED HELP NOW!!



## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

There is a currently a 15 year old boy in Texas who contacted me through my anti-circumcision tumblr account. He has a tight foreskin, and contacted me because his Dad wants to have him circumcised because of this problem. He was excited to find out he could stretch it, so it will open normally, and could keep his foreskin. 

His Dad is circumcised, his two brothers are circumcised. The only reason he is not is his Mom actually watched his last brother get cut and was horrified by it. So she refused to allow it to happen. I have gotten the sense this very much one of those "Father is king of the land" kind of household, and they seem to be quite religious. 

He contacted me again today, saying he was crying hysterically because despite his Mom sticking up for him in the past, his Dad "put his foot down" and now is demanding he get circumcised. They set up an appointment Thursday Nov 24th, with a doctor who is a family friend- to allow him to heal over the holiday weekend. 

I don't know what to do for this kid anymore. Does anyone know any resources I can provide him? Can people spread this message and link it back here? 

To oppose circ on a conceptual level, but to have a minor begging for it not to happen, but has no laws to protect him and his body is just horrifying on a whole other level. 

Is there any support network for him? Please help if you can!!


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

It's normal for the foreskin to take up to 18 years to become lose enough to retract. Also retraction is only for sex. At 18 the young man can go to a doctor and get some steroid cream and do some stretching. Why on earth do the US make a big deal out of retraction. Also its none of his fathers business its this boys on private affair. This boy needs to contact the doctor himself and tell him he does not consent to a circumcision. In fact there are some grown men who can't retract and they have sex just fine, its their choice not to pursue something to help them with this issue. Again none of their parents business. I think this boy need legal aid. Surly the US has some form of free legal aid or even a call to social services might be in order.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

He is getting circed on Thanksgiving? 

Why? This reads like a joke. 

As a teen, he has a right to have a say in this, and I am sure he can enforce his options.


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

joandsarah77 said:


> I think this boy need legal aid. Surly the US has some form of free legal aid or even a call to social services might be in order.


He has no legal option, because he has no rights. He is 15 and 11 months shy of 16 when he could apply for emancipation. Before that age a boy in America has no rights protecting their genital integrity like girls do. Social services can't do anything, because there is nothing going on that the US government would define as abuse.

He is from a small town in a conservative, religious family. It did seem weird that he had surgery on that day. But apparently the doctor is a close family friend, and trusts in the fathers opinion more than the boy. Also they wanted to pick a time so he would have the most time off from school to heal.

He contacted me today and said the surgery happened, and it was the worst thing that happened in his life. He felt vulnerable, and humiliated. His uncle wants to give him money and his Dad a computer. I told him he should show how he feels by refusing both and ask them to be donated to a human rights organization. He said thats a bit too much to deal with, as he is just dealing with how everything feels now.

I put him in contact with a few people who I trust online who I think would be a good emotional support as he doesn't have that at home. He got angry with his Dad about all of it before hand and apparently punched him, and then that Dad grounded him after that. He had no one else to go to, run to, escape to. I am just trying to support him now and make him feel good about himself, his body, and make sure he still feels empowered and not voiceless despite the dehumanizing act of a forced circumcision.

I am going to keep up with him, and see if he will be interested in actually sharing his story on youtube and other places. I won't bring that up now, but later when he gets to that stage where he feels like he needs to DO SOMETHING to feel better. It might be really helpful to have examples of boys for the public to see who are having their own boldly integrity pushed aside, and traumatized like this. Our culture is horribly, horribly messed up and more people need to understand what that really means. This kid is a prime example of that. More than anything I just hope he can heal from this emotionally.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Well that's terrible. At 15 a boy is strong enough to resist, so unless they held him down, stripped him and knocked him out he must have agreed to go along with it. I admit the US leaves me open mouthed, do children there have no rights at all?


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

joandsarah77 said:


> Well that's terrible.  At 15 a boy is strong enough to resist, so unless they held him down, stripped him and knocked him out he must have agreed to go along with it. I admit the US leaves me open mouthed, do children there have no rights at all?


I agree! Technically a 15yo can't consent to surgery in Australia but I cannot imagine a circumstance where a 15yo would be forced to have cosmetic surgery against their wishes. It is common over here for older children to co-sign consent forms with their parent.

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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

joandsarah77 said:


> Well that's terrible. At 15 a boy is strong enough to resist, so unless they held him down, stripped him and knocked him out he must have agreed to go along with it. I admit the US leaves me open mouthed, do children there have no rights at all?


Thats the thing about marginalized groups- they DONT have other options. You could make the same statement you just made to a wife who is being beat and raped by her husband. "They must have wanted to go along with it, they could just leave."

But the reality is when you don't have any money, when you don't have any other support network. What can you do? This boy would have to run away from home, from his small family, and his community. Then he faces living on the streets, fending for himself. For anyone, but especially a child thats an impossible choice to make, even if they are desperate to get out of it.

This is a perfect example of how people are allowed to be subjugated and marginalized. Because they really don't have an alternative. Its why most countries have so many laws protecting children, hell its why the US has a federal that prevents any 15 year old girl from going through this same situation.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Well someone over there needs to do something about it. Was there a call to the media, a letter to parliament, a protest, anything? I know I have seen pictures of groups that protest in the US, could they not at have been contacted? How fast did this go through?It seems like one day there is talk and the next this boy is mutilated. How long is the statute on being able to sue? How about going to the media now. The US acts like it's a brain washed cult chanting as they walk over a cliff when it comes to the circumcision of boys.


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## Cherry_Blossom (Nov 7, 2009)

katelove said:


> I agree! Technically a 15yo can't consent to surgery in Australia but I cannot imagine a circumstance where a 15yo would be forced to have cosmetic surgery against their wishes. It is common over here for older children to co-sign consent forms with their parent.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've heard a story from a pediatrics nurse that there are teenagers that have needle-phobia. They literally physically hold them down, like wrestling, and vaccinate them if the parents wish.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Cherry_Blossom said:


> I've heard a story from a pediatrics nurse that there are teenagers that have needle-phobia. They literally physically hold them down, like wrestling, and vaccinate them if the parents wish.


While I completely disagree with this as well, from a health care providers perspective, there is a big difference between cosmetic surgery and vaccinating on schedule.

I also wonder, in this scenario, whether the teenager was opposed to the idea of vaccination itself or just the needle. For example, would they have objected if it was an oral dose? As I say though, I don't agree with the approach and I think as a general rule older teenagers should have health autonomy with guidance from their parents as needed

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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

joandsarah77 said:


> The US acts like it's a brain washed cult chanting as they walk over a cliff when it comes to the circumcision of boys.


I take issue with this stereotype. Newborn circumcision rates in the U.S. have been steadily declining over the past 35 years, and hover only a little over half. In my neck of the woods, the Western half of the U.S., it's a lot less than half. Here is what my regional hospital says about circumcision.

Actually, the freakiest thing I've heard on the issue came out of Australia, when Brian Morris declared that circumcision should be "offered" just like vaccines. But I'm frankly _impressed_ with the intactivist movement in both countries.

As for the topic at hand, the OP doesn't add together. But for the sake of argument, this issue should have been handled by an attorney and not crowd-sourced on a public forum. I'm no lawyer but know that in these cases, one court case has ruled in favor of bodily autonomy.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Turquesa said:


> As for the topic at hand, the OP doesn't add together. But for the sake of argument, this issue should have been handled by an attorney and not crowd-sourced on a public forum. I'm no lawyer but know that in these cases, one court case has ruled in favor of bodily autonomy.


I agree but, if the original story is true, it doesn't seem like the child would have had either the means or opportunity to access that sort of assistance.

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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Turquesa said:


> I take issue with this stereotype. Newborn circumcision rates in the U.S. have been steadily declining over the past 35 years, and hover only a little over half. In my neck of the woods, the Western half of the U.S., it's a lot less than half. Here is what my regional hospital says about circumcision.
> 
> Actually, the freakiest thing I've heard on the issue came out of Australia, when Brian Morris declared that circumcision should be "offered" just like vaccines. But I'm frankly _impressed_ with the intactivist movement in both countries.
> 
> As for the topic at hand, the OP doesn't add together. But for the sake of argument, this issue should have been handled by an attorney and not crowd-sourced on a public forum. I'm no lawyer but know that in these cases, one court case has ruled in favor of bodily autonomy.


We all know and disown Brian Morris. He's an embarrassment to our country; but as much as we would like to deport him to the North Poll, we are stuck with his brand of nonsense. So lets leave him out of it. I'm talking about the average American who thinks circing newborns is 'normal, healthy and cleaner' without research, they just follow along without thought handing their son's over to be cut. Bring it up that boys should have the same rights as girls, that they should have body autonomy and they get angry. They defend their decision to take knives to healthy boys. Sure sounds like they are brainwashed to me. I've been on this for over 20 years now and while the rate is coming down it is agonizingly slow. We still hear women going "eww I wouldn't be with an uncut guy" One on a Baby Centre board posted a picture showing a cartoon turtle with the words 'uncut guys turn me into a lesbian' The US is improving but it has a long way to go.

Of course it should have been an attorney but it sounds like it was done quickly by railroading.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

joandsarah77 said:


> I'm talking about the average American who thinks circing newborns is 'normal, healthy and cleaner' without research, they just follow along without thought handing their son's over to be cut. Bring it up that boys should have the same rights as girls, that they should have body autonomy and they get angry. They defend their decision to take knives to healthy boys. Sure sounds like they are brainwashed to me.


I agree but don't see the case that this mentality represents "the average American." You've left out a huge region of my country the where well over 2/3 of parents eschew the practice, about 3/4 in my state. It's not enough, I agree, but statistically, "the average American" can't be boxed up and labeled as "brainwashed."  Our medical establishment is another matter. :eyesroll But it's encouraging to me to see so many Americans questioning it.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I'm absolutely horrified that this teenager had genital mutilation forced on him. 

My neighbor years ago had her grandson circed when he was about 7-8, I discussed with her that it wasn't medically necessary. The only reason they didn't circ him at birth was that is wasn't paid for by their insurance. I wish the world would wake up to how wrong it is to do this against someones wishes. Frankly I wish it was illegal.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

It boggles my mind that an adult thinks it's okay to surgical alter a child genitals. Don't they even question if that could leave lasting emotional scars at that age? I think it can leave mental scars at any age, but at 7 or 8? They think that won't cause the child to feel violated? To feel long term anger at the person who signed off on it?


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

I am coming to this discussion way too late, however I do find this story absolutely horrifying.

First, I wonder how the father even knew that his son had a tight foreskin. Most of us don't see our children naked past the age of 7 or 8, never mind know any details.

I suspect that this father has wanted his son to be circumcised for all of the boy's life, and maybe realized time to force the issue was running out.

There was obviously collaboration between the father and the doctor because any doctor worth his salt would know that there are many methods to fix a tight foreskin that do not involve amputation. From steroid cream and stretching to various techniques of preputioplasty. What this doctor did might have been legal, but was definitely highly unethical.

I believe that there is a narrow window of opportunity to sue that lasts a year after the boy turns 18. There have been successful lawsuits, although I do not have links handy.

I agree that the most important thing now is for the boy to heal emotionally, if that will ever, even be possible.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

joandsarah77 said:


> It boggles my mind that an adult thinks it's okay to surgical alter a child genitals. Don't they even question if that could leave lasting emotional scars at that age? I think it can leave mental scars at any age, but at 7 or 8? They think that won't cause the child to feel violated? To feel long term anger at the person who signed off on it?


There is mounting evidence that there are often emotional scars. Everything that a baby is exposed to, from in utero onwards, leaves a trace on their implicit memory. I would think that at 7 years old, there would be huge emotional turmoil directed at the person responsible because that is a recallable event imprinted on their explicit memory.

Ronald Goldman has written some most interesting articles on the psychological effects of circumcision. I have read that there is evidence of some men exhibiting symptoms of PTSD that traces back to their circumcisions.

On a personal level, as a man circumcised in infancy, I think it has affected me in many ways. I have always been terrified of doctors and can't even walk into a hospital to visit a patient without my blood pressure going up by 50%. I don't feel anger toward my parents as they were working on bad advice and had no access to the facts, although I do wish that they had used a bit more common sense to realize what a bizarre and pointless operation they planned for me. I do feel anger at the doctor because he could easily have said "This is not necessary, you know", and it probably would not have happened. Instead he opted for the easy money.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Yes I am aware of the link to PTSD. I tend to think with infant circumcision that this is probably due to those cut without adequate pain management since such a traumatic experience would be etched onto the sub conscious. Again this is only my own thoughts, but those given adequate pain management probably do not not have PTSD since newborns do not have explicit memory. When people say they won't remember this is the type of memory they are referring too, but no thought is given to sub conscious memories when it should be. I don't know how any doctor circumcises newborns let alone circumcise them without 'full' pain relief.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

You are quite correct. I have had three people in the medical field tell me that those memories etched in the subconscious (implicit) memory can and do come out to haunt those afflicted later in life.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Found it: www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

Turquesa said:


> I take issue with this stereotype... I... don't see the case that this mentality represents "the average American."


As a man who has been circumcised, who lives in a country that on a wide scale cultural level doesn't value any male of any age right to boldly integrity- no this isn't a "stereotype" this is reality. A reality remembered whenever you see yourself naked. (Even if you mentally have learned to move on from it). You may have the ability to distance yourself from this issue, or feel like "well not in my part of America!" but as long as your part of America still doesn't legally protect boys in the same way we protect girls bodily integrity, then it IS still your part of America. We as communities of companioned adults cannot pat ourselves on the back for having forward thinking values but stop short of the kind of passion that comes from realizing the problem, the dehumanization is still taking place on your doorstep. And its a mistake to think so- because it still is.

Members of this forum represent one of the many splintered cores of the body integrity movement in America, and to ever win we have to always remember we are not close until we are there. Until all children are protected.

After that boy sent me that last message he seemed to have stopped responding. I don't know if its because he was trolling me, or if he was a sad kid who just went through something horrible and is shutting down. All I can say is that from talking to him he certainly seemed like a young man that was scared and being pushed into something he didn't want. And not someone having a fun time. Those conversations were too in-depth, her concern and questioning to detailed. The comfort I provided seemed to help him. To be honest the whole thing haunts me a bit too much to think about now. The truth of the matter is, what happened to him can legally happen to ANY boy in America, I have a friend who I grew up with who was pressured into circumcision when he was 12 and regrets "letting" it happen. This kinda stuff happens regularly in our country- all over our country. And to stop it we cant be focused on numbers, or rates but changing the very values our culture has- to values that value the natural male form, instead of one that at best looks at it as excess tissue or at worst looks at the foreskin as body deformity.


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## Hunter (Aug 3, 2006)

Turquesa said:


> I take issue with this stereotype. Newborn circumcision rates in the U.S. have been steadily declining over the past 35 years, and hover only a little over half. In my neck of the woods, the Western half of the U.S., it's a lot less than half.




Behind every stereotype is its origin. Those rates are hospital neonatal circumcisions. When a state stops insuring circumcision and rates go down, clinics sprout to cater to parents who didn't have insurance or money when their son was born.

Then you have demographic change. Have 50% more Hispanics this year? Well, you will likely see a drop in circumcision rates.

I fear the actual drop is considerably less than those statistics imply. Survey white 21 year old men and see for yourself the real numbers.


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## Your Mom (Feb 16, 2017)

Cindy boyle said:


> Actually no, I don't love the Bible. I know why you assumed what you did, but I am not a Christian. I'll forgive you for that..
> 
> Masturbation from a physical standpoint is NOT as healthy as the medical establishment makes it out to be. For those over 40, yes, they should flush the pipes because the prostate is not as flexible as it once was, but for men under that age there is absolutely nothing unhealthy about celibacy or sexual restriction. Semen is the most valuble physical essence of your body.. the only tissue it has more in common with is neural tissue (the brain). It contains a lot of vitality.. it has to, what with its job to create life n all. If you constantly masturbate or release, you drain yourself of vital chemicals.. for the woman this is great as she absorbs it all through her vaginal walls, but for the man.. they don't call it the "little death" for nothing you know. Constantly draining yourself of those vital chemicals puts a strain on your body because semen production is the culmination of your inner alchemy/body process.
> 
> ...


The Jedi Lords do not allow masturbation


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