# justifying family bed



## mamarsupial (Mar 20, 2002)

i need to vent a bit. my mil was just in town for a visit (actually helping us out since dh is sick). i forget that she is not as privy to our parenting choices as my parents are. it took some time and explaining for my folks to understand some of our choices, so i should be more patient. anyway, she was really shocked that dd is still sleeping with us. i tried to explain, but was met with "you need your own lives...you can't let a baby make choices for you...it just would take a couple nights of crying and she would learn..."

why is it so hard to understand that dd IS our life at the moment and that makes both dh and i amazingly happy. our child isn't a burden to us, she is a joy. watching her fall asleep at my breast, and wake to reach for dh and me in the morning, are joys that i would have never known if i had stuck her away in a crib. plus, it is pretty obvious that dd is thriving. so i'm hearing "you're doing such a great job...but you should really change what you are doing" all in the same breath.







:

what is more, i can dig my heals in on things when i begin to get defensive example: i'm 30 and have never had a drivers licence. main reason is i believe strongly in alternative transportation. the other reason though is if everyone tells me i'm nuts for not driving or that i 'have' to drive then i feel more stongly about NOT driving. anyway, i'm worried that as i encounter more comments like this re: family bed, extended breastfeeding, etc. that i will start digging my heals in. this could effect my ability to be really balanced in my parenting choices. i embrace ap, but i try and keep an open mind and do what ever works within our own family dynamics, regardless of what other people think (ap or not). so, any thoughts?


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## mtn. mama (Jul 30, 2002)

I couldn't pick just one, so I guess the last option fits best. When dh and I started having children and making choices about how to create the type of family we wanted we went for what worked for us. And piece by piece the majority of what we chose led us down the ap path. As we have gone along this path three babies later I have grown to love our style of parenting and therefore it trickles out in my conversations. I often find myself sharing my ways with other parents I contact. I am not trying to create a statement but how one lives is a statement. And it is reflected in the child. If your mil can't see how healthy and happy your child is and your home as a whole, she is missing out on enjoying her time amongst your family. Sometimes I will share and find that it doesn't get through so smiling and letting it be has to sufice. You don't have to respond to her if you don't want to . It is your home! You should not make your decisions to or not to based on her or anyone else. You obviously are confident in your way, why let her shake or unnerve you? I think that sharing, in a nonconfrontational way is a good thing but if it ends up like a debate then stop. Don't let her goad you. Maybe the root of all this is that she DOES see what a great thing you guys have, and she is jealous! Keep the faith!


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

My husband and I both come from APing families. Both of our parents co-slept with us and our siblings. It really was just natural for us to cosleep with our children as well.

I voted that it works for us, and we feel the responsibility to educate people about cosleeping. It hurts me that so many people don't do it because they think they need to 'teach their child good sleep habits' (rubbish!!) or they think that the family bed is a dangerous situation.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I'm not really sure what to vote. We chose AP because it made the most sense and fits in well with our family dynamics and our laid-back, do-what-comes-naturally approach. But I also get excited about it, about how "freeing" it is to ditch the mainstream advice and go with what you want (i.e. no guilt here for snuggling with DD every night!). So I like to take advantage of opportunities to educate others. I also know that there is an element in me that would "dig my heels in" just to prove a point. I think I was determined to cosleep, BF, etc no matter what, in part to prove to everybody that I was right in my pre-birth expectations. Of course I would not extend this to the point of not doing what is best for DD. If she slept so much better in a crib than in our bed, I would move her. But I know a part of me wouldn't want to b/c it would "prove" the others right. So far, I haven't been tested in that way. I hope I won't be, lol.

As far as your MIL goes. I have thought and thought about what to say to comments like this, and I think the one thing that helps the most (when trying to educate them falls on deaf ears) is this:

"Why should we change anything? We're all happy the way things are". And say it in a tone that sounds final.

Much easier said than done, I know! so big hugs to you!!!


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## tabitha (Sep 10, 2002)

we made our AP decisions long before our babe was born. my mother in particular disagreed w/ our choices. (she still does... mostly) every thing was "the worst decision of your life!" especially cosleeping. she also resisted cloth diapering, assured me i would never be able to labor w/o drugs, and kept buying us polyester/ plastic/ toxic stuff even after we let her know we would only be giving it to Goodwill.

(in fact, i was ABLE to labor w/o drugs partly because of her. she wasn't there, of course, and i asked for drugs during transition. my dh said, "Ok, Tabitha, but first we're going to call your mom and let her know she was right." and I never mentined it again! Ha!)

She also let us know we would need a crib and stroller eventually... when our "plan" had fallen through! she has partly changed. she's really on the cloth diaper bandwagon now... buyin' them up left and right!

Anyway, we made our decisions proudly. I really only want what's best for ds, and AP fits the bill. But i think i was determined to do it in part because everyone told me it wouldn't work. for instance, i had a lot of nursing problems in the 1st month, but i know i would never have given up, Never! how stubborn!  I am very open to others about our parenting style, and do not hide or soften my beliefs about it. if someone asks me, why do you sling your babe everywhere, instead of saying, "it works for us", i say "it works because...insert factual data here." i want other people to know, because it might change their opinion a bit. a lot of parents out there are really into what is best, they just think their pediatrician/ mother knows it! i have found that a lot of more "conventional" moms are impressed and swayed by "scientific" studies. they just got the wrong books, you know?

also, i have a beautiful example in my ds. he is so healthy (naturally born & exclusively breastfeeding, on demand) and happy (slinging not strollering, cosleeping, held all day). sometimes AP just speaks for itself!!!!

My mom is returning from NZ (permanently) this week! wish me luck!!!

love, tabitha


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## cosmos (Nov 22, 2001)

I have the good fortune to have both sides of the family not say one word to our faces and then turn around and







to all their friends. The look on their faces coming in to our apartment and seeing the queen bed with the bed rail and no crib was...well...priceless. I can just say what I feel and know they are slowly trying to wrap their little heads around it. My mil is better about it but she likes all the "baby" crap marketed and tried to buy dd a $70 crib bumper (on *sale* for $70)







: It must be hard to have people in your face and disagree with you. Rest assured, you are a sensitive soul who can recognize the needs of your children and will be open to them. The one hard one for me was when dd started really eating meals and relied less on bm for nourishment. It just becomes obvious, kwim?


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## cumulus (Jul 17, 2002)

Hi:

So much of parenting is, I think, cultural - having to do with ideas so deeply held that we never question them as anything but the absolute truth. I think common sense would lead one to believe as you do yet to move someone to delve deep and question their cultural assumptions is no easy task. My new plan is to ask questions when confronted about cosleeping. Why is sleeping alone good for the baby? or maybe, Why, when pairs of married, self-sufficient people sleep together and enjoy being cozy and together would I deny that same comfort to a totally dependent, helpless baby still new to the world and what things mean.

Plan B is to mention how a scientist who filmed mother and baby dyads while they slept found that though they changed positions during sleep most pairs spend the whole night face to face with their heart rates, breathing, sleep levels, and other parameters moving up and down together in an intimate dance. I think that's so beautiful that I'm afraid to mention it in conversation because if I still get an argument I fear I will become hardened or angry. I'll probably just try to avoid the whole issue like I usually do.

And talking about cars and culture, traffic accidents are the leading cause of death among teenagers. I think parents would naturally be quite reluctant to put cars and teens together. Just the opposite is usually the case. Many parents I know have purchased cars for their kids. Cars are so much a part of our culture they're a right of passage and symbol of all kinds of things - these things that destroy lives and the environment are referred to as "sexy."

I think you're right on in worrying about becoming hardened to the opinions of others when so many disagree. You've inspired me to try to keep open. It's important to do just for the children's sake - to listen and get the "good" in what people say so my parenting grows and adapts. But how? My immediate thought is the kids. They are so open to thoughts and experience - a daily lesson they can teach me


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I believe in doing what works, not in making statements. But I do things based on theories that seem sound to me, even if they are not the easiest things to do. There have been times where I've worried if I did the non-AP thing, it might mean I was somehow discarding the values that had been important to me. It seems like we all do what works for us, however, so I don't worry about it overmuch. The only thing I really feel bad about is the Weissbluth sleep training I tried when dd was 14 months old, but I at least feel confident in saying unequivocably that I tried it and it was a dismal failure.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Good points, Cumulus. The other night (Halloween) I got a little spooked around right before going to bed because I heard a loud noise outside. When I went up and got into bed with my husband, it felt so nice. But the thought of my little girl down the hall all by herself really bothered me. I'm glad that she sleeps in her own bed now, because it is more comfortable and easier. We stopped having a family bed when she became a toddler and hubby moved to his own bed, but she and I slept together regularly until she was over 3. Last night she told me how warm and comfy her bed is and that she loves it, and the way she likes to sleep makes it easier for her to be on her own. But on a different level I also really wish the family bed was more a part of our culture so that any little difficulty associated with it would just be seen as something to get over and work around, not seen as a sign that the whole practice is bad. Oh well, when she calls to me in the night, I go and lie down with her, so that is our work around for separate bedrooms not being all they are cracked up to be.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

(in fact, i was ABLE to labor w/o drugs partly because of her. she wasn't there, of course, and i asked for drugs during transition. my dh said, "Ok, Tabitha, but first we're going to call your mom and let her know she was right." and I never mentined it again! Ha!)
:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL


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## sozobe (Aug 5, 2002)

I have a little saying, since the doubters do think dd is just wonderful and smart and sweet and healthy and...

"The proof is in the puddin'. Right, Puddin'?"


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## Gagesmom (Dec 11, 2001)

My sister (who has no children














tried to tell me when my son was 2 weeks old that if I didn't lay him down and let him cry himself to sleep that he'd "never" sleep without me. I asked her if perhaps she was envisioning a 16 year old boy coming home from a date and climbing into bed with my DH and me? She is now married to a man who AP'd 4 children.








Of all people, my HOUSEKEEPER decided to advise me that we "couldn't" let our DS sleep with us or he'd "never" sleep in his own bed. IMAGINE THE NERVE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told her that we didn't want him to sleep apart from us til he was ready, so it was no problem and she didn't need to worry about it. She got the hint.
My DH has a DD who is 15 going on 25 and he knows full-well how quickly kids grow up and away from us. He is more than happy to have our children in arms and in our bed. Co-sleeping is a joy that only we can understand! I feel badly for those who don't share sleep with their babies.


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Before my ds was born,
My Mom couldn't understand why we didn't have"all that baby stuff" for our soon-to-be-arriving baby....and why was our 4 yr olds bed pushed up against ours??? My response? PUHLEEEZE, Mother....research has shown that it's *better* to sleep with our kids...makes them smarter,more secure,happier,and more independent!!! The Lord wants us to give our children US... not equipment!!!!!

I really only feel the need to justify my lifestyle to my family(and only slightly)and to my closest friends(who pretty much parent like I do)...everyone knows we take our parenting VERY seriously,read books,etc...

For everyone else, if the person inquiring or judging seems to actually be openminded about learning, I will inform with the intent of educating. Otherwise,my children and our relationship with them speaks volumes to those who can hear.

In the end, it is our children whose voice we really need to answer to...I will always advocate for them and their desire to be on the breast or in our bed.








mamapoppins


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## Bearsmama (Aug 10, 2002)

I, too believe in doing what works, and I'm not usually comfortable with making statements. The bad news there is that I FEEL like I have to justify some of my parenting decisions even if no one is really questions. The good news is after having DS I have gotten bigger *#$%$ and I now feel like I have to speak up more. I'm his advocate and I now feel even stronger about co-sleeping, breastfeeding, etc. My problem is NOT the digging the heels in thing (although I sometimes wish it was)-it's the opposite. I have a tendency to get sheepish and self-doubting. DS is making me stronger and taller every day, though!









sozobe-I will gladly steal your great line. The proof IS in the puddin. And my ds is a happy, healthy, fearless, confidant snuggler!!


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I try to do what works.. but I think our decisions do inherently make a statement, whether that is our intent or not.

We decided to co-sleep because it felt right.. not to make a statement. But it does make one anyway, doesn't it?
It says we ask questions and think for ourselves and go with our gut, even if that means going against cultural norms.

I don't think that's a bad statement.. even though we aren't purposely or consciously making it.

I don't automatically reject things just because they are mainstream.. I consider many sources of information.. some mainstream, some not.. and then I do what feels right.

And I'd get flack here from ap-ers for some decisions.. just like I get flack from "mainstream" parents for some decisions.

So we just do what works for us... and work on trying not to be bothered by the flack from whoever. That's easier said than done though, especially when the flack comes from SIL!


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

I didn't even realize that the way that I parented was any different from anyone else until a fellow AP mom told me! I couldn't believe it! I thought everyone understood that a babe needs to be to breast and bed. How else are you going to get any sleep. Then I heard (one of the few times I have ever watched Ophra? (spelling?)) Dr. Phil talking about co-sleeping and how it made really sick kids regress when their parents slept with them at the hospital. The more I got to thinking about it, the more I realized GOOD!! It is showing that their kids can let their guards down so that the parent can protect them. Don't you ever feel like regressing when something traumatic happens? I do! And what better place then in my moms arms.... I have to say that I do it for my family and no-one else. Although now I am more then happy to spread the word!


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

I don't think it's anyone's business, really. Frankly I don't really care what anyone thinks.

My dad's new wife came to our apt once and saw the two mattresses on the floor and she said, "oh, I threw my matressess on the floor when my kids were little too."
So a little support from an unexpected source. Let's see what the inlaws say when we go to visit next march..


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I do what I want, and could care less what anyone else thought. I never justify anything, because I am not doing anything wrong.
I have a sil that told me to put a lock on the outside of my 3 yr ols door, lock it and not open the door till morning. I didnt even answer her, i mean, whos the nut? I make choices based on what works for us, and i feel that that in and of itself makes a statement. but, no, i am not on a soapbox, i just live my life, and leave the others to think.


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## theedswife (Oct 17, 2002)

We do what works best for us as a family. Period. We get flack from both of our moms and probably always will. I've heard over and over that we'll regret this or that, but here we are, 15 months later, and we have a healthy (**Never** been sick!!), happy, thriving, and secure son. I get so weary of defending our parenting choices to people who choose to remain uneducated about it .... over the holiday weekend I told my MIL that the main reason I'm still bf'ing is because I know it bugs her







: (not the truth, but she gives me the "You're STILL doing that?!?! It's time to stop!!" For an otherwise educated woman, she opts not to read anything about the benefits to mother or child on EBF'ing. As for cosleeping, she swears DS will still be sleeping in our bed when he's 18. My response is always the same. "I sure hope so! We love waking up to his smiling face!"









Jennifer


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## Serenity (Nov 19, 2001)

just wanted to add anoither ridiculous mil comment. over theholiday mil said i should put 6 mo old ds in a crib in another room and come back 10 hours later. You could be getting 10 hours sleep a night! she exclaimed. like i was stupid for not having considered the option of ignoring him until it was convenient for me. i tried to explain why we would never do cio and she became increasingly mocking of our choices so i had to leave the room. i kept thinking that night though of how anyone could take such a callous attitude towards a helpless baby!


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## Juelie's Mom (Nov 19, 2002)

I can totally sympathize. Seriously, the only people I have met who haven't had something negative to say about co-sleeping and AP are my midwife and doula. I have gotten to the piont where I simply say "my daughter is clearly exceptionally happy and healthy, so I must be doing things right". I get too angry trying to defend my chioces, and thats not that kind of parent I want to be. I KNOW I'm doing the right thing, and I wouldn't change it for anything in this world. I really feel for all the parents and babies who don't get to nurse, wake up together in the morning, or cuddle all night long. Its the most wonderful thing.


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## Jenny G (Feb 25, 2002)

I just hate the feeling that EB and co-sleeping is something I don't talk about to my neighbors with kids, most other parents I meet, etc. My husband says I should not care about what other people think but I guess I do. We are lucky in that our family is mostly supportive.

We started out with the crib, separate bedroom, all that, but it just evolved into what is is now. I just assumed baby would have no problem moving into his own room! I just could never fathom letting him cry, I love him so much. And to be so little and depend so much on us!


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## AutumnMoonfire (Dec 29, 2001)

Phooey on Dr Phil! As long ago as the '60's Dr Spock was saying that ill children will regress somewhat while they are ill and they will generally return to the former level of developement as they feel better! Hospitalized children who co-sleep at home need a parent sleeping with them in the hospital. If the child is so ill as to be hospitalized asking them to sleep alone just seems so cruel, I can't get my brain around it!


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## adb252001 (Nov 19, 2002)

We used the crib from six weeks till five months. babe was sleeping through the night and would do what I call a power nurse from 9-10:30 at night and in the morning so we let her sleep. Her crib is in our room. At the end of five months she began waking up. A lot. So she moved into bed with us. It's easier. We all sleep. Usually for 7-8 hours at a time. She goes to sleep btw 8-9 and goes to the crib. No crying and totally asleep. When we go to bed at 10-11 she wakes and joins us. It works for us and we love to snuggle with her. The only thing a little bothersome is when she feels rested at 4 am and we don't. I don't like it when people tell me how to do or not do something when it involves my child. So I don't really promote the family bed. But, when asked if babe sleeps through the night I say yes, because she is warm and cozy with her daddy and me.


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

My DH is so oblivious to the political issues about APish stuff that he is a great advertisement. He BEAMS, and is so enthusiastic about how wonderful co-sleeping is, or mostly, just how normal it is. he acts like that's how everyone does it. I have to remind him some people use cribs. He's such a big extroverted guy, nobody's really had the guts to say something to him about it. he talk to everyone about it. Strangers, pregnant moms, elderly people, doctors, other dads. My grandmother even asked after my sis and I both co-cleep with our kids..."doesn't anyone use cribs anymore?" Dh loves the together time we get in the mornings and that DD always wakes up smiling. But when she's really inconsolable, either cranky, or trying to get her to sleep, he has suggested CIO on occasion...he feels like if we can't "debug" it that she must just want to cry. And diaper changes and meals aren't something that really occur to him. We were picking up our share in the in organic commuinty supported agriculture program we get and pulled in next to a car with a free tibet bumper sticker. He says, "this place really attracts the earthy-crunchy people." I looked at him and said, we ebf, cd, co-sleep, nonvax, and have a CSA share... We ARE the earthy-crunchy people. He was shocked. doing "what works" has sucked him in and he had no idea. For co-sleeping critics I always point out that the people i know with sleeping problems are parents who insisted on cribs, and then once the kids could get out, were right down the hall in their bed as pre-schoolers...and very hard to get out. so crib-use is no guarantee! I usually respond to critics positively, but I usually don't argue with them. I'm just firm about what I believe and why.


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## Dana (Nov 28, 2001)

Sorry, but I haven't finished reading all the other posts yet, but wanted to add before dd wakes up:

mamarsupial, your second paragraph:

Quote:

... dd IS our life at the moment and that makes both dh and i amazingly happy. our child isn't a burden to us, she is a joy. watching her fall asleep at my breast, and wake to reach for dh and me in the morning, are joys that i would have never known if i had stuck her away in a crib. plus, it is pretty obvious that dd is thriving. so i'm hearing "you're doing such a great job...but you should really change what you are doing" all in the same breath.
is beautifully put.







Have you told this to your MIL? (or had your dh tell her? or let her read it?)

I worried a bit about my MIL and FIL doubting our choices, but dh told me that FIL commented that we "take parenting more seriously than other people" which I take as a compliment. I think everyone we know now understands that dd is our life right now and even though we're sleep deprived, that's our choice.


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

As a teen-ager I was so wild and acted out with such vigor, that my mom thinks the fact that I am still ALIVE is a blessing. The fact that my girls are delightful,smart,and amazing has shown her time and agian that I take this VERY seriously and LOVE LOVE LOVE my babies. My 17 year old is so cool and our relationship is so strong and healthy that the proof is in the pudding! I love that btw!!! Even our dog gets upset when someone in the house cries, how could a parent not? Pooh to people who have convinced mothers that they should ignore their instincts and let baby cio.


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## mamatanya (Jan 29, 2003)

I kind of fell into AP as all of it made the most sense and was, to me, what the human animal does. All of the facts are conveniently on my side. When someone wants to argue with me I give them the response that most people give us, I just look at them like I'm really trying to see it their way but am utterly confused. Then I don't further the conversation. Just continue to give one word answers or simplified explanations. If they seem at all receptive I will share what I know but I won't get myself into a defensive stance. One, I feel like they just dig in their heels further if I argue but if I leave it open, maybe they'll think about it? Two, I don't need the adrenaline. I'm pretty pacifistic so no offense to those who do argue their stance. Just what works for me. Also, I find that with older people, even when you convince them, the same words and sayings are so ingrained that it's like trying to stop saying hello. I get annoyed with my mom's constant worry about when he's going to sleep on his own (even though she "understands"). I also think it's funny that all of these people think that you can only have sex at night, in bed.


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## padomi (Dec 28, 2002)

We do what works for our family and what makes us happy and dd happy. My MIL doesn't like it, but it's none of her business and I think I've politely made that clear, so we don't hear much about it. I just try to let things "go in one ear and out the other".


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## AnnaReilly (Mar 8, 2003)

I said:
We do what works, but feel a responsibility to educate others about ap and family bed.

DH and I are fairly young and are the first of our friends and siblings to have children so I kind of feel like we need to pave the way. I am SO glad I came across AP, and got validation for the way I chose to parent. So I feel like if I can prompt some one else to look into AP or make some one else feel like they can "come out of the closet" with their parenting beliefs then that is AWESOME!









I don't argue with people who disagree with my parenting choices but I do my best to educate them in a calm manner. I feel like I have the upper hand when it comes to any parenting debate because I have done more research on the way I parent than anyone I have met. And most of the words of opposition that I have encountered are nothing more than unfounded cliches and ignorance. So I don't make a big deal of it, but if someone wants to question my beliefs or is curious I have no problem standing up for what I feel is right.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

We do what works - kind of a modified co-sleeping like described above - goes to sleep in crib then joins us when we go to bed (then we have time and space to talk and get our love on if we want to). This works for us, our son is happy with it.

My position is this: I will extoll the virtues of what we do and say it works for us, but I won't make other's feel that they have to be like me. I am certainly not the most AP mom in the world, but more than the general public. I feel that if I tried to push the whole enchilada on people who just weren't with it, it would be a waste of time and alienating. I have a very good friend who had terrible ppd, and just could barely hang on not breastfeeding and not sharing a bed, that it would be cruel to suggest that ebf and cosleeping are the only way to go.

To people who genuinely want to know, I show them how to use a sling and talk about the up and down sides of it, explain what my breastfeeding experiences were like (longer than a year, but not EBF, and often unpleasant) and say that I'd do it all over with a second child in a heartbeat, and hopefully longer. And talk about our sleeping arrangements and give them "permission" to ignore people who tell them to use CIO. Many people believe it is the only way to get sleep (I was almost convinced, too), and don't know the alternatives.

So, the short version is, I'd love to have everyone be as AP as they can be, rather than have the "totally AP" -vs- the "totally traditional".

H.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I don't really know where I fit in, as I'm not really *challenged* on the family bed issue that often. My friends and I all have the same kind of parenting philosophies, so that makes socializing a lot easier








My sister cannot really understand why my DS cannot fall asleep on his own, why he cannot stay asleep when he is put down on the bed without me, etc. etc. So when I have sleepless nights and days where I feel like I have had a baby clung to me 24/7, I simply keep my gripes to myself (most of the time







). That way, she sees a happy, respectful, thriving family and does not have the "ammo" to question our parenting choices. I have found that by really listening to people and acting like their comments and opinions really matter to me, even if I totally disagree with them, is the best way to avoid power struggles. Yes, mom (or mom in law, or dad, or whoever), I hear exactly what you are saying. Maybe in a couple of months, I'll try those wonderful ideas you keep mentioning. You are so helpful... blah blah blah







They shut up when they think you are listening to them


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