# Who thought it would be a good idea to let Britney Spears design toddler clothes?



## Boadicea (Mar 28, 2004)

Okay, so it's not actually Britney designing them, but it sure looks like it! I keep seeing halter tops, tube tops, twist front (like between the "breasts") short shirts, bikinis (some even with "cups"), skirts with slits up to THERE, etc. I just don't get it.









My baby is TWO not thirty-two! I want her to look like a two-year-old. Her clothes should be fun and functional, sweet, innocent ... not mini versions of rock star chic! I'm not saying cutesy, even, just not suggestive or revealing or freakin' sexy!

Anyone else noticed that the target for this "grown up" look in clothes seems to be getting younger and younger?!?

/End Rant


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I know









That's why i love Hanna Anderson, and Babystyle


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

I agree - who thinks their toddler in a string bikini is cute? I am creeped out by the whole thing.


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## abandbunk (Jan 7, 2006)

I totally agree, it is disgusting


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Yes, disgusting. And then in the little girls' department you see sexy satin underwear!







: WHY on earth would a child need those??? It reminds me of a Saturday Night Live sketch that took it to the extreme and made a fake commercial for thong diapers.









The really sad thing is that people *buy* that crap for their kids, though -- I see 8-year-olds around here dressed like they're going clubbing, and their mothers are walking around in Juicy Couture sweatsuits with writing across the butt and their fake boobs popping out the top -- nice example, mom!







:


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

Here in Europe you find thongs for toddlers it seems to be normal I guess. I really don't like that type of clothes but you don't have to buy it ya know.


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## CountryMom2e (Apr 1, 2005)

The boys clothing is not much better - basketball shirts, droopy pants, grungy, urban hood-like clothes for a 2 yr old! I struggle to find just regular old clothing - thankfully the best clothes in quality are often the best in style, and are the only ones good enough to make it to consignment









One of the mainstream parenting mags I get had a baby in a bikini top on the cover this summer, and I was so offended! I just don't think a baby in a bikini is appropriate.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Can I join you on this soap box








I have to wonder who are the mothers buying this stuff? I mean it must be selling enough or they would stop making it. Curses to those buyers!
I love and hate buying my kids clothes. I know that I'm picky, but I hate waiding through tacky, hippy (orange with pink flowers) or sugestive stuff for my dd. And like a pp grungy clothing for my ds. He's 16 months old! I don't want shorts that slip down his butt and end at his ankles, (how is that cool, and I am talking about the weather here! as it's summer) or sullen skateboarders on his T shirts! I want cute prints and nice colours, not muddy blue and muddy green. I'm sure he will get them muddy enough on his own!


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

The thing that I fnd most alarming about this trend is that it's yet another thing making childhood shorter and shorter - this consumer culture is robbing our girls of their girlhood!

The only purpose of "sexy" clothes is to be sexy - to be attractive to boys. Why on earth does anyone think it's appropriate to start that socalization process so young - why do our girls have to face that pressure (and the self-esteem nose dive that accompanies it) younger and younger? IT makes me FURIOUS. The whole process encourages girls to evaluate themselves and be evaluated on their appearance - rather than their talents, abilities, interests, passions, etc.

And don't get me started on those Bratz dolls - or as we call them in my house, hooker dolls. I'm not a politically or socially conservative person - but I think we can all see that it is harmful to girls to start this consumerism and pressure to be sexy so young. THe thing that really chaps me is that if there wasn't a market for it, it would GO AWAY - but people keep buying this crap.


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## AidansMommy1012 (Jan 9, 2006)

I agree, it's nuts. Our whole culture, the media, the clothes, all of it, is so sex- and appearance-obsessed, and the target audience just gets younger and younger. I saw an article a few weeks ago on the website for Coalition for a Commercial-Free Childhood, where a mom bought a Baby Bratz doll for her preschooler because her dd really wanted one for Christmas, and she figured the baby doll version had to be toned down somewhat (and it looks that way in the box. I've seen 'em.). Anywho, Christmas morning rolls around, her little girl takes the doll out of the box, and shortly thereafter tells her parents that her doll has a carrying strap. The baby doll--yes, the BABY doll--was wearing a black mesh thong. They took the issue to whoever makes those wretched things, and the company staunchly declared that it was not, in fact, a thong, but a strap to keep the doll's skirt on, and whoever thought it was a thong had a "dirty mind". Isn't that crazy? And the thing that bugs me as well is that you look at the playsets and whatnot you can get for these dolls, and all these characters do is talk on the phone and go to the mall! I mean, sheesh, at least Barbie ran for President!!

And then I was talking to a friend of mine from MOPS the other day. She was telling me about how she almost had an aneurysm when she overheard her 8 year old daughter singing in her room about how she wanted to "lick the lollipop" from a song that the local pop station plays constantly.

It's completely insane, and you have to mourn the fact that these people at the head of the marketing chains, who really do, unfortunately, hold sway over much of our childrens' peers, choose to act with such disregard toward our world's children.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

I am picky about my dd's clothes so I feel your pain. We mosly shop in thrift stores and so far I've been able to find things that are ok.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

That's funny you posted this today OP--I was on an eBay forum earlier and the posters were bashing some creep who had a toddler girl's outfit listed w/ "hootchie" in the title. Hello???? Who on earth is in the market to buy their toddler the hootchie look? Is someone actually doing an ebay search for toddler/girl/hootchie???? It makes you wonder...


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Hmmm. Well, I honestly think that these issues have more to do with your perception of adult attire and sexuality and the social context than with age appropriateness. I never went "clubbing" and would consider it degrading to go around wearing clothes for the sole purpose of turning other people on. I do sometimes wear skimpy clothes to the beach, however. Why? Because I love feeling the breeze and sand and water on my skin. Because I feel good and sexy in the best, most meaningful sense: beautiful, unashamed in my body, unashamed to enjoy it. It took me a long time to get there, partly because I heard comments like those in this thread and developed negative impressions and feelings. When I go to the beach -- Orchard Beach in the Bronx, which is one of the most amazing experiences you can have, IMO







--I see women of all ages and sizes showing and enjoying their bodies by wearing bikinis. I can't imagine feeling critical of the little ones, or their moms who bought their suits!!! That would really lessen my enjoyment of the water and music and happiness. I suspect little girls like to wear clothes like their mamas'. Why shouldn't they? Bikinis aren't what hurt girls and their developing sexuality. And underwear should follow the contour of our bodies. When my dd wears briefs, they slip down under her little belly and the extra fabric bunches up. She likes them anyway, and I support her.







But what would be wrong with underwear shaped more like her? And um, shirts that show her cute little belly button...?!

People like all kinds of different clothes, and that's fine. I personally feel a little queasy about girls' clothes that are very frilly, pink, glittery, and adorned with "Disney Princesses". They're not my thing. The difference is that most people wouldn't think it ok to use _shame_ to express distaste about the kind of clothes I don't care for. To me, any comment that could introduce the seed of an idea that sex or the body might be DIRTY or BAD is better off studiously left unsaid. (Actually, I try to avoid making negative comments -- beyond the brief, matter-of-fact, as-neutral-as-possible ones -- about the Princess crap to my own dd, b/c I know she is very impressionable, she likes pink and girly, and I don't want to put her down or tell her what she "should" feel about being a girl in our society.)


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## KarmaJoy (Jan 25, 2006)

Amen! I would rather dress my daughter in a table cloth than in some of the clothes I have seen becoming trendy right now.


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## FitMama (Jul 20, 2003)

I think children's clothing in general does follow trends too much. I don't have daughters, but I've seen very nice, conservative/comfy clothing for girls in Land's End.

My beef with boys clothing is the aggressive nature of so much of it. I know that there is a time and a place for boys expressing their rowdier side, but I don't like it when it comes to clothing. I try to avoid logo'ed Ts and shirts as much as possible.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

I hate hate hate it!! I was trying to find my 6 year old a few nice skirts at the store and they were all these little mini skirts. Ewe!!! I found a few long skirts after digging but what happened to the nice knee length skirts for kids? I dont get it!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

My husband and I comment on this all the time when we are shopping....we also wonder who is buying these clothes? Because if parents weren't buying they wouldn't be selling them!


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## frowningfrog (Aug 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Can I join you on this soap box








I have to wonder who are the mothers buying this stuff?


Ok...before I go further Just to All..... This is in no way an attack on any of you.. obvioulsy I would not be talking about any of you, as you are as outraged by it as I am.

But to answer this question......It is being bought by 20 something parents of toddlers...mostly the younger 20 somethings...
MOST ...wear these types of clothing. ..so I guess they figure well if I can wear it so could my 2 yr old..oh she will be soooo cute...

NOT.!!

My cousin for example ...has a 2 yr old dd beautiful child ...so beautiful she blows all the top models away she is so gorgious....
My cousin...24, dresses in these types of clothing..undines sticking out of the back of her jeans...Paris Hilton skirts....so of course she dresses her 2 yr old like this as well....
I wanna just grab this child and take her away from my cousin ...

So as long as this type of dress is accepted in public and these young ladies that wear this stuff have DDs...this will not stop...and I hate to say it but it will get worse.

I dont get it and I never will...It is not cute to see a 3 yr olds undies out the back of her pants ..or her diaper because her skirt is so short....


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## mammom (Aug 13, 2004)

I don't know what the clothes will look like, but I just read that Charlie Sheen is starting his own clothing line for little girls!







Here's the story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...&entry_id=2948

I just have to add that I cannot stand those Bratz dolls either. Skanky.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frowningfrog*
But to answer this question......It is being bought by 20 something parents of toddlers...mostly the younger 20 somethings...
MOST ...wear these types of clothing. ..so I guess they figure well if I can wear it so could my 2 yr old..oh she will be soooo cute...

NOT.!!

im 23 and i have a 2 year old daughter... yes she has miniskirts but they all cover her diaper/panties. she has halter tops and alot of her clothes are red, purple and black. i never really thought about it as being an issue, it never even occured to me that people are offended. my daughter has a string bikini she chose it herself when she was shopping with her grandma... we kind of laughed at the rediculousness of the top, how small it was, so we dont often put it on her. and appearantly there are alot of people offended at the sight of *gasp* a toddlers nipples. i think its hilarious and take it the same way id take it if someone got all huffy because my 2 year old is wearing a string bikini. i wasnt raised in an overtly clothed household so i guess in my eyes i can say 'hey at least im wearing clothes'








dd has some long skirts but will sometimes get frustrated trying to maneuver and play in them, she has pants too but if shes in a diaper the pants are too small and the bulk annoys her, if shes wearing panties they pants fall down and she gets annoyed pulling them up all the time...
when i was little my mom would nearly have a heart attack because i would wear mini skirts and haltertops in the winter, but to this day too many clothes just get on my nerves, dp is the same he only wears boxers if he can help it. so its really no suprise we have a little girl who prefers string bikinis and mini skirts.
she even has bratz dolls she found some at a yardsale and wanted them... really my only concern was the creepy feet but appearantly they were the big selling point for her. i would have never even known thier image was an issue if i wasnt at mdc, i actually was excited that they now have doll clothes that look like something id wear








im really concerned that alot of people are calling dolls and people in skimpy clothes derogatory names. what is that teaching your daughters?
i really hate the idea that people are dressing 'sexy' for the benefit of others. i dress in things i like, that i find comfortable and pretty *to me* im not thinking of others when i get dressed in the morning, er um afternoon hehe
sandrel's been picking her clothes out since she was able to point and dressing herself as soon as she could figure it out. aside from noting the weather i dont do much styling of her look.








ack...gotta go wake up dp for work...


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:

It is being bought by 20 something parents of toddlers...mostly the younger 20 somethings...
Would be intresting to know, those of us who don't like the skanky toddler clothes are we mainly older mums? I'm 39.


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## monkeybum (Jan 1, 2005)

I can't stand the clothes (I'm 36). The skimpy girls stuff - I just feel it is totally innapropriate. And it does NOT look comfortable. Kids should be climbing trees and playing in the sand and chasing butterflies in the backyard. How do you do that in a miniskirt and wedge heel boots?? My SIL dresses her 2 year old DD in mini skirts and wedge boots that go up above her knee. She looks like a 2 year old hooker. It is awful. She is not feeling the breeze or sun on her skin. She is tripping over her shoes and may as well be naked for the amount of time her skirt is up at her waist. She cannot play comfortably!!

And why do I have to drive to 29 different stores to find things for my 2 year old son that do NOT contain skateboards or spiderman. He is too young to skateboard and does not have a clue who spiderman is. Why is everything for toddler boys spiderman!!!!! It drives me nuts. I just want plain clothing, (like Lands End stuff) that is reasonably priced, with maybe a DOG or TRAIN on it!!!!! Baby stuff is cute, then BAM! Size 2T and up and you're in to complete commercialism.

*steps down off soap box*.

Kathy.


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## abandbunk (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm 26 and i think it's totally sad







so it isnt' just an age thing


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:

why do I have to drive to 29 different stores to find things for my 2 year old son that do NOT contain skateboards or spiderman. He is too young to skateboard and does not have a clue who spiderman is. Why is everything for toddler boys spiderman!!!!! It drives me nuts. I just want plain clothing, (like Lands End stuff) that is reasonably priced, with maybe a DOG or TRAIN on it!!!!! Baby stuff is cute, then BAM! Size 2T and up and you're in to complete commercialism.
lol thats what I said in my first post! Boys clothing isn't scanky but it sure isn't good either. I hate the sullen skateborders and muddy colours it's like everything has had a dollup of grey mixed into it. Over here in Oz that stuff starts at size 1 (we don't have T sizes) in fact I think you will even find some in an 0. Spiderman is pretty popular too








Lucky I like Thomas and Bob, and we have a shop called Pumpkin Patch over here (Do you have that?) and in the boys 1-4 section I can usualy find something nice. I bought a t-shirt with a zebra and a lion on the front from there the other day. There is also a brand called Bright Bots http://www.jumpingjackflash.com.au/category.php?id=16 that carry reasonable stuff too.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poxybat*
im really concerned that alot of people are calling dolls and people in skimpy clothes derogatory names. what is that teaching your daughters?

Amen!


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

well im a 21 year old mother of a 18month old and my dd does not wear miniskirts or halter tops(unless it covers her entire stomach and ties right at the neck)...She has one shorter skirt my mother bought her and when she does wear it its with thick german stockings and a longsleeved top. I will never buy my dd a triangle top swimsuit. DH(hes 20) and I both just shudder at what they have for kids..SO no NOT all young moms dress there kids that way. If we have a son he will wear preppy fitted clothes.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Would be intresting to know, those of us who don't like the skanky toddler clothes are we mainly older mums? I'm 39.

i doubt it. when i was in school id get looks and totally innapropriate comments from my classmates...and that was just for wearing skirts because appearantly only slutty girls wear skirts, respectable girls wear pants. ech
im hearing similar things from some of my younger cousins...
i dont think its likely to stop as children do pick up on the biases of thier parents. i personally dont care what anyone chooses to think but i do wish the namecalling would stop. we should be embracing our bodies not trying to make others feel bad for being comfortable in thier own/raising thier children to be comfortable in thiers.


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## frowningfrog (Aug 25, 2005)

Im 32,

But again I also said I was not refereing to anyone here as I would expect that the majority of you are put off by the clothing that is availible to us in the stores.

and as far as calling anyone who wears these clothing derogatory names...I did no such thing.
And I could care less what a doll is wearing ...Im talking about real children who are wearing these clothes and we live in a different time and little girls should NOT be wearing these things.
In a town in my state a commuter train worker was fired of statements he continuously made to a woman and her 7 yr old child....the child was NOT wearing anything out of the ordinary and this man continued to tell her mother what a nice Arse her DD had and how he would love to "tap" that.
So I only hope that the women who DO find these clothing cute and hilarious to adorn their children with think twice. I do not eve nwant to tink of what may have happened if that man had not been fired.

thats all...sorry like I said I do not mean to offend anyone ...this is MY opinion.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frowningfrog*
In a town in my state a commuter train worker was fired of statements he continuously made to a woman and her 7 yr old child....the child was NOT wearing anything out of the ordinary and this man continued to tell her mother what a nice Arse her DD had and how he would love to "tap" that. So I only hope that the women who DO find these clothing cute and hilarious to adorn their children with think twice. I do not eve nwant to tink of what may have happened if that man had not been fired.

So in sum, you are saying that a child was sexually harassed while wearing non-revealing clothes, and that by the way, you feel that wearing revealing clothes might invite pedophiles (i.e. that the victim's parents might be to blame for making her a target by allowing her to wear revealing clothes)? Of course, that's just "YOUR" opinion and not intended to be offensive.

Nice.


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Would like to add, what stores do you all shop at?! Everywhere I go, there seem to be racks and racks of loose, knee-length dresses, and plain colored jeans/pants, overalls, and T-shirts for both sexes. Guess New York has missed out on the Sexy/Commercial Toddler Clothes Revolution.


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## Altair (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CountryMom2e*
The boys clothing is not much better - basketball shirts, droopy pants, grungy, urban hood-like clothes for a 2 yr old! I struggle to find just regular old clothing - thankfully the best clothes in quality are often the best in style, and are the only ones good enough to make it to consignment











what's wrong with "urban" clothing?

"hood-like clothes" vs. "regular old clothing"???

I'm trying to read your post in the best light possible, but I'm really cringing. Different subcultures in our country have different ways of dressing. That doesn't make one "better." There is nothing inherently wrong with a basketball shirt.


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
. . . you feel that wearing revealing clothes might invite pedophiles . . . .

Oh, I'm SO gonna get slammed for this, but . . . yes, that's how it seems to me. Clothes designed to make one look sexy, adult or child, are inevitably going to make certain people take notice. If your beautiful child may end up in the path of a pedophile in the course of his/her day, wouldn't you rather not do anything to make him/her even more desirable? Let's face it, sexy clothes are designed to stimulate sexy thoughts. I wouldn't want to help anyone have thoughts like that about my kid.

Unless . . . does anyone really know anything about how the typical pedophile operates? My entire base of knowledge on the topic comes from Law and Order: SVU. Maybe pedophiles are so into little kids they get off more on little kids looking really little kiddish. If so, maybe dressing our kids like little grown ups is their best protection????

Oh, I'm just locking my kid in his playroom until he's 40.


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

I just wanted to clarify my personal position -

I have NO problem with a woman owning her own sexuality and dressing however she wants. I LOVE miniskirts and have gotten much teasing (ggod natured) about showing some cleavage. To me, the fashion choices of an adult are very different from the CORPORATIONS who market "sexy" clothes to little girls. I have a big problem with many of the pop icons who set the standard for these fashions (ie Paris Hilton, etc.). I understand that a lot of little girls see images of these pop figures, they go the store and see Bratz dolls,etc. and these types of clothes and, of course, they want them. But what is the core value or basis for this current ideal? It values appearance and sexuality above talent, personality, intelligence, individuality, etc. When little girls have these role models as their ideal - and want the clothes to go with them - what are they learning to judge themselves by? "Shopping" has become a hobby - which is a whole other matter altogether.

I guess my major concern is that children should be allowed to be children - to learn acceptance (fashion encourages judgement - I don't want to look like "that" - and this emphasis on fashion at younger ages moves that judgement to younger ages); little girls need self-esteems that are built NOT on appearance or their bodies, but on something real and substantial that they have control over (sports, talents, hobbies, etc.).

Of course, children need to wear clothing that is appropriate for the weather an activity. But as parents, it s our responsibilty to protect our children from a jaded consumer-oriented society where sex sells - and protecting them when they are young gives them a solid foundation so that when they do grow up they can claim their own sexuality and identity without being beset by insecurities that come from basing your self-esteem on the opinions of others or unattainable standards.

What harm comes from allowing children to be young and innocent and to direct their focus away from early sexualization and conumerism? Now, what harm mght come from failing to protect especially our little girls, who we all know have a life of being judged by their appearance ahead of them?

I am less concerned with the skateboard shirts, as DH was a skater, but I agree that boys should not be encouraged to be "tough" any earlier than society will put those pressures on them.

As for loose/baggy clothes - I agree that is a fashion choice and subject to taste. "thuggish" implies a judgement that sets off warning bells for me.

I'm not getting involved in a snipe war - and I hope we can put aside name-calling and sarcasm on both sides to consider the real "meat" of this topic.


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

PS - on the topic of pedophiles: NO ONE is responsible for the actions of a sexual predator except the sexual predator. I would never tell a woman she "asked" to be raped and I would never blame a child's attire for the actions of a pedophile - let's let the criminals be responsible for their crimes.

But what is happening is that the age at which a girl is considered sexy in an appropriate way is getting younger and younger. I am only 28, but when I was 14, 15, 16 we NEVER saw images of teenagers being overtly sexy - remember Tiffany who was super cool in her jeans and oversized sweaters? Now we think nothing of Brittany Spears wearing a bra and hot pants on a magazine cover at what, 17? It's now normal and socially okay for grown ups to hold teenagers as sexual objects. This is just the reality of our culture - but again, it's a reality I'm going to protect my child from until she's old enough and secure enough to hold her own.


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Would be intresting to know, those of us who don't like the skanky toddler clothes are we mainly older mums? I'm 39.

Not all older moms. I am newly 22 with a 19 month old and think the clothes out today are totally unacceptable, not only for toddlers but for teens and adults as well.

Do I own a string bikini - sure do, but just because I do doesn't mean it's acceptable for my toddler to be in one. We don't do bikinis or string tank tops, halters for our dd- she doesn't wear skirts or dresses either (which is less of a skanky clothes issue and more of a being a kid/playing issue). Kids should be kids and I feel like moms that dress their children like little adults are denying them of that. Makes me sad.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

can some one post some pictures because im seriously not seeing what the problem is with haltertops and miniskirts...


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

This is something my dd will never wear
http://www.oldnavy.com/browse/produc...291&pid=360478
http://www.oldnavy.com/browse/produc...291&pid=360463

There are kids clothes that are just plain hoochie...skirts that barely cover there diaper/butt, tops that are low cut etc


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Just looking through that Old navy shop of yours, at least that does sell mainly regular clothes and the boys are much nicer colours.


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## Bernie (May 5, 2004)

Gee, and I have such fond memories of Shirley Temple! Didn't she wear those cute little short skirts when she dance and sang in her movies? I guess I am just not getting it. I had to scroll back up and look to make sure I was still on the Toddler Forum. I happen to think those two examples of the Old Navy bathing suits are cute, and I would purchase the flowery one for my DD's if I didn't already have UV suits for them. I am 41 yrs old and can remember my very conservative mother (was not allowed to wear jeans to school; I had dress pants, skirts and dresses) purchasing me little shorts and halter tops. I also had my share of short skirts as a toddler that just did cover my diaper and a string bikini. But then again, I was a toddler so who cared? No, I don't think it is a good idea to have these racy messages on clothing for kids, especially for kids that can't even read or begin to understand the innuendo, but as far as a mini skirt, well unless it is black leather or lace, I just don't see the problem. Last I heard, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Rape and pedophilia are illnesses and crimes of violence. If little old ladies are getting raped, then I guess no one is safe no matter what they are wearing.

Everybody has their opinion. And that was mine! Have a great day!







: Adieu!


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Last year I got all into the notion that bikini's "sexualize" young girls and I didn't buy any. Than I did numerous diaper changes and potty runs with a wet bathing suit on a toddler.

This year it will be 2-piece swim suits if she's amenable. I've "matured" in my outlook and I decided I'm not going to let anyone's opinion sway me. I'm dressing her for my convenience!

I thought the halter top on a little friend of DD's was totally cute. I could never find one reasonably priced so I modified a pattern and was going to make one myself. It never happened last year though.

I think the biggest influence on my DD will be myself and some of our fabulous full-figured, gorgeous friends with strong egos and self-esteem. We have some really great friends with very healthy attitudes and I just know they'll be the biggest influence on DD. Not the media. I've told them that too.


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## nfpmom (Jun 4, 2004)

Hmm. I don't believe in "hootchie" clothes for girls at all, but I DO dress my 2.5 year old in "skater"-esque clothing and hoodies and I am always on the lookout for hip non-baby type clothes for my 7 1/2 month old. I'm not talking about bikini cups, but I do have a hippy-esque apron shirt at the ready for her this summer, and my favorite tops for her are yoga-inspired wrap shirts and the like... and I am currently sewing dresses in non-baby prints for her.
So... I always complain about the lack of normal clothing for babies. Who said a toddler needs a clown sweater or an elephant on his shirt? I love that there are some skateboard companies that make toddler-sized clothing.
I am not advocating for stripper-esque clothing on a baby, but I do like something thats a little different... like this for example:
http://www.oldnavy.com/browse/produc...285&pid=360448


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## KariM (Mar 13, 2004)

My issue with the clothing isn't that the styles expose skin.

My issue really is because the clothing seems to be a way for the babies/toddlers to imitate adult styles. I've been trying to figure out why it bothers me and the only thing I can come up with is that I don't want my daughter (or any toddler, really) growing up too soon. I want her to be a child before she's an adult, IYKWIM.

btw- if it matters for the purpose of the discussion I'm 38.









--kari


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

For me, it's not about showing skin - toddler clothes that are functional will expose skin in the summer. And I am all about hip, non-cutesy clothes that are age appropriate (like wrap tops or jeans and hip tees, etc). I don't like children's clothes that are made to mimic the kinds of adult clothes one would wear to got out to a club - a miniskirt can be cute and functional, but tops that are constructed to give the appearance of breasts are not.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yo Becca*
tops that are constructed to give the appearance of breasts are not.

thats my big peeve. My kids are lucky to be wearing clothes (at least in the 3 and under phase) and we don't have air conditioning so skin is in in the summer. but there is a difference between cutsey baby/toddler stuff and hootchie wear. And when she wears a short skirt, it is always with matching diaper cover. For some reason I have always been wigged out by showing the diaper







but with my first I used disposables and it just seemed weird to have a cute outfit with a plastic bag hanging out the back. My other beef is low rise jeans. on what planet is this a good idea on children with diapers? it jsut makes no sence. It isn't like Huggies has a low rise version for your stylish clothes. what's the point. It is almost impossible to find cute jeans for a chunky toddler in a diaper.

My big question is who thought heels were a good idea for toddlers. i had the hardest time finding shoes for my last dd when she was new walker. they all had 1- 1/12 inch heels. what the heck. she barely has mastered walking. why couldn't a mom find a pair of freaking flat sandles in a size toddler 3?!!

fortunately there are some good things out there. OshKosh is showing up everywhere and getting cheaper. Carters makes some really cute stuff, durable, modest and childish while still being stylish. Those are my two favorites. I recently stocked up during summer sales and got oshkosh for $2.50 each and carters for $6.50 each. Not to shabby. and the carters pants had reinforced knees while still being girly. can you dig that? I sure can.


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## dvdsky (Mar 7, 2004)

Im new here and just stumbled upon this thread. I agree with most on the opinion that skimpy clothes for toddlers and children are ridiculous. Not just because they seem innaproriate but also because there are these really insane people in this world. They are called pedofiles. They get off on seeing kids. I cant imagine what runs through their heads when the see a little girl wearing the string bikini that "she looks so darling and grown up in". These people are everywhere and you never know who they are. They could be the perfectly clean cut average looking person in front of you in line at the grocery store, at the gas station, who knows? A toddler or baby is not sexy or should be portrayed as such. They should be children. People are trying to get their kids to grow up too quickly. Whatever happened to the good, old fashioned childhood? As a kid, I was always playing games, reading, playing outside, etc. being a kid. Not trying my damndest to look "cute and sexy". These days, 5 year olds are preoccupied with trying to look like they are in their 20's. It's scary. On top of the world wanting our kids to grow up way to fast, I personally, I dont see a need to attract any type of sexual attention to my child and anyone who would actually think it's ok to attract that attention really freaks me out. Not wearing much around your home is one thing. Hell, I ran around the house naked or half naked all the time. But out in public, Uh Huh, I do not trust people.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

oops--wrong button.....


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

Wow. Have not read all the posts, but I'm surprised to see such a big reaction. So they sell skimpy girls' clothes and thugged-out boys' clothes. I agree that they're targeting the naive young-parent audience, which is a bummer. While I'm certainly not going to be the first one to rush out and buy the Mary-Kate and Ashley toddler bikinis at WalMart, I'm not going to instantly judge some mama whose kids are wearing that stuff either. I don't think that clothing style matters all that much compared to how the kids see their peers/parents *acting*.

I'm 25, and I buy baggy jeans for my 6yo and ruffley tank tops for my 3yo. Is that bad? My 3yo has some of those satiny underwear from the department stores--she picked them out herself 'cause she thought the metallic blue looked pretty!







We talk about modesty and respect. Clothes don't define who you are, after all.

ETA: I totally agree w/this though!! Gimme Robeez anyday!

Quote:

My big question is who thought heels were a good idea for toddlers. i had the hardest time finding shoes for my last dd when she was new walker. they all had 1- 1/12 inch heels. what the heck. she barely has mastered walking. why couldn't a mom find a pair of freaking flat sandles in a size toddler 3?!!


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## nfpmom (Jun 4, 2004)

Hmmm... I personally find clothes like this
http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html
way more offensive than baggy pants on a toddler boy. YMMV though.









take care


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## apmama2myboo (Mar 30, 2005)

as to why the society we live in is in such a hurry to have its girls grow up that we put them in bikinis at the age of two, but when they DO grow up, GOD FORBID they use their breasts for something functional and beautiful as nursing their child?????? just an insight









jen
caitlyn 2/9/04

(ps. i would not put my 2yo dd in a bikini. one-piece or she swims in shorts and a tshirt if she's in public! LOL)


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

For me, it's not about showing skin - toddler clothes that are functional will expose skin in the summer. And I am all about hip, non-cutesy clothes that are age appropriate (like wrap tops or jeans and hip tees, etc). I don't like children's clothes that are made to mimic the kinds of adult clothes one would wear to got out to a club - a miniskirt can be cute and functional, but tops that are constructed to give the appearance of breasts are not.










I have no problem with skin....it's the toddler clothing that looks like grown-up "sexy" clothing that I have an issue with. And I refuse to put a bikini top on my toddler...that is the height of silliness to me and fosters the culture of sexualizing "breasts" from day one. And we wonder why so many people in our (sad) society are "grossed out" by breastfeeding, why moms feel embarassed to NIP or are told to cover up...it's part of the whole issue, for me.

I don't find it cute to see little girls in overtly sexualized clothing - I find it sad...


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Bikinis seem really practical to me. My DD hasn't had any type of bathing suit yet, but isn't it way hard to change a diaper with a one piece suit?

Something like this seems good to me.

I'm not a fan of sexy or excessively trendy clothes for kids though.


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## Shell (Jul 12, 2003)

I'm in a mother-toddler swim class with very mainstream moms. We're the only ones who don't use disposable swim diapers, and dd goes "topless." I swear I get dirty looks. All the other little girls in the class have frilly bathing suits, and yes, bikinis.

If it were allowed, dd would wear NO bathing suit, but that's another story...


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

As a designer of kids clothing, this is very interesting for me to read. Since I became one of the _"they"_ who designs clothing for kids I have chosen to focus on non traditional designs, but it is also very important to me that kids stay kids! It's very hard to find clothing that is non-cutesy and also non-hootchie







it seems that there isn't a lot of choice in between the two.


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## rozzie'sma (Jul 6, 2005)

I am 22 and I dress my daughter conservatively. No bikinis. My sister just got her this top that ties in the front between the boobs and a matching pair of pants that say "berry cute" on the butt. She will not be wearing those. I don't like the logo butt on adults and I really don't like it on kids.


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## boricuaqueen327 (Oct 11, 2004)

I am 19 and I dont like to see toddlers in skimpy clothing. That said, I live in the southwest where it is almost unbearable to walk around with clothes on in the summer. but i do beleive that cool, breathable clothes is not the same as "sexy" clothing. I hate to see shirts with emphasis on the chest area or with sayings on it. DD has a bikini bathing suit as well as one piece and she wears a little Dora cover up over both of them. CLothes can be cute and functional and not look like its made for grown ups. That is what bothers me, when baby/toddler clothes is an exact replica of clothes being sold for older teens and adults.

This is a great thread, lots of great views and thoughts on this subject.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Well, I think there is a big difference between clothes made to sexualise the toddler (including, full covering t-shirts with logos like "sexy" or "bitch") and short or skimpy clothes. I rarely put dd in a long skirt, she usually wears shorts, or dresses that cover the diaper (with a sort of knickers underneath if it seems too short). She has one or 2 tops with halter style. But they are not sexual or sexy and I find it fairly hard to see a toddler as sexual anyway, regardless of what they are wearing.
As for swimming, I find bikinis rather silly on babies, why fiddle and fuss with all those straps and elastic if there is nothing to hide anyway. dd swims in a bottom piece only (if she wears anything at all







).


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I personally think the skater-type clothing for little boys is cute







I love to shop at Naartjie(a South African shop) for ds.DD too, of course.I think it is a really cute variation to all the preppy boy clothes t gap. I love anything that looks a bit unique.

I think to sum up my feelings, I would say this country really tries to push MANY things onto small childrenl, sexuality being one of them. Meaning, things are introduced too early. Such as dolls, clothing, and other situations that small people should just not have to deal with so young.It has been going on for a long time, but there is a recent surge of sexualizing toddlers. It is very sad indeed









I will always dress dd modestly, and like a proper young lady. I went to a pretty conservative University where we were nto allowed to dress inapropriately. Although it was a bit extreme at the time I went(has changed dramatically since then







)it taught me tht even though I did look good in the recent trends that showed alot of skin, I could have enough respect for myself to dress like a lady. I know some here will disagree with the status of ladylike-ness relating to clothing, but this is my opinion.


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nfpmom*
Hmmm... I personally find clothes like this
http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html
way more offensive than baggy pants on a toddler boy. YMMV though.









take care


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Hmm. Call me wierd, but I find all this obsessing about "skimpy" "skanky" "sexy" clothing on toddlers to be another example of how we are manipulated by the culture of fear in the US. If the first thing you think when you see some toddler skin is that someone is getting turned on by it, you are projecting the "every person is a danger to my kid and wants to rape her" media hype onto your own kid.

A toddler's body is not any more sexy in a halter than in a T shirt, except in the eye of the beholder. If you are beholding it that way, perhaps YOU are the one who needs to examine your perceptions.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nfpmom*
Hmmm... I personally find clothes like this
http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html
way more offensive than baggy pants on a toddler boy. YMMV though.









take care

















I like a lot of cute toddler clothes, but that's a little much for me...


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

OPh I wanted to comment on age. Most of the kids i see dressed in really secualized adult clothing is older moms and/or middle upper class and up. Super trendy, right now is expensive. the ones who shop as a hobby and own enough clothes to take care of a small city.

i was 21 when I had my dd and and would never have thought of dressing her all grown up. Not that I could have affopred too. but I still remember our first bag of handme downs and pulling out the prized hannah anderson dress. that thing has ben through 6 kids over 11 years, ha had two buttons ripped violently and has a small hole that was there when we got it 8 years ago and still (beside the three small holes) looks good as new. And is cute, and can be dressed up or down. aaahhhh memories . . . .


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

Ok well IMO, we live in a culture that is way too child-centered, i.e. child-segregating. Little kids have not only their own unique clothes (complete with moronic and random pictoral themes -- 'cause you know how all babies love bears and diaper pins), but also their own bedrooms filled with child-sized, non-functional belongings (why cut real food when you can have "natural" wood food?), and their own workplaces (schools), again furnished with non-functional busy "work", and completely separate from their would-be mentors and role models. Stepping aside from the Cult of Blissful Childhood...what is wrong with kids wearing clothes similar to the clothes adults wear? Are you offended by tiny flannel shirts, pea coats, neckties, blue jeans? Do people really grow up faster for lack of primary colored overall outfits?

Before you flame me, keep in mind that I realize a little wood food never hurt anyone. I'm going for more of a general observation here, not intended to impugn any particular family.


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## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

I saw a size 2T thong once and couldn't believe it! What toddler would be happy with undies stuffed in their little tushies?

Personally, I'd rather buy clothes with a little more coverage than some of what's available these days, but it's every parent's personal choice how to dress their child.


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## MamaPam (Oct 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Would be intresting to know, those of us who don't like the skanky toddler clothes are we mainly older mums? I'm 39.

I am 20 and have 20 month old and 5 month old DDs. I can't stand the clothing easier and wish simple cute childish clothing were easier to find everywhere.

Pam


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

Well the toys my child plays with are totally different then the clothes she wears. My dd wears what I wear. Jeans, coats, button up tops but like me she does not wear mini skirts, hoochie tops etc.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I'm 21 and I have a 1 year old DS, I refuse, REFUSE to let him wear that 'skater punk' style thats so dang popular right now. I do like the 'little man' look, but he wears plain shirts (solid colors, stripes or plaid, no decal or pictures at all) and jeans or kakis. The only 'designed' shirts he has are a handful of NASCAR/Sprint Car shirts because my dh is a huge race fan. I'm appalled at the little girl/teeney bopper styles now-a-days. If I ever have a DD I'm going to have to make her clothes myself because she won't be wearing that stuff!


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
what is wrong with kids wearing clothes similar to the clothes adults wear? Are you offended by tiny flannel shirts, pea coats, neckties, blue jeans? Do people really grow up faster for lack of primary colored overall outfits?

I don't think anyone would argue that *any* item of child's clothing that can also be found in adult sizes is inappropriate (and I think you know that and are just trying to make a point), and I totally know what you're saying about the ridiculously cutesy kids' clothes that are out there -- the earlier poster's comment about "this is more offensive to me than a skimpy outfit" with a link to a pastel, Christopher Robin-type outfit on a little boy was hilarious.

I think the posters who are saying that adult-like clothing is inappropriate for kids are trying to make the distinction that it's not showing skin, per se, that strikes them as "wrong," but rather the *style* of clothing that the kids are wearing. A toddler in a flower-print tank top and a short skirt with a ruffle-butt diaper cover is cute, but a toddler in pleather pants, a criss-cross top, and wedge boots isn't (IMO), despite the fact that the second outfit probably actually covers up more skin than the first.

My SIL dresses my niece in outfits like the second one described above, and I always just feel sorry for my niece because she looks so uncomfortable -- she can't run well in her shoes, and her pleather pants are not stretchy or breathable, so it's harder for her to play. Not to mention that the clothes cost a fortune so my SIL's focus is on not letting her kids get dirty rather than dressing them in such a manner that they can just have fun and move around. I honestly have no idea where she finds these clothes, because, like many other posters here, most of the stuff I see in the stores is either too cutesy or what I would call "normal."


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

This thread has been really eye-opening for me. I am a huge fan of kids clothes, I enjoy shopping and dressing my kids. It's a fun hobby for me.







I have a daughter and a son. I tend to gravitate towards funkier styles for both kids - and somewhere between smocked jonjons and halter tops.

I must say I am totally shocked by how many people think a child's navel exposed in a swimsuit is wrong or inappropriate. Is this really the message we want to send our kids? That their navels are somehow sexual and we must cover them for fear that a hypothetical predator may find it arousing? I just do not get this. I realize there IS no right or wrong answer here, as it comes down to personal beliefs, but like I said, eye opening. My daughter loves bikinis so she can go potty - never once did it enter my mind that her 4 year old tummy bared would be labelled "hoochie." To me...that's just sad. I find it particulary upsetting here, for reasons I probably should not go into.

I'm with another poster in wondering how primary colored animal overalls makes a child look more like a child than "urban" (what does that even mean?) jeans and a baggy sweatshirt...?

I think the problem here is that lots of people associate a style of clothing with a certain ethnicity, a certain socio-economic background, a certain sexual fetish, a lack of religion perhaps, a lack of moral fiber maybe, and they find it inappropriate to see a child (or their child) associated with this. This reeks of prejudism to me, not in the racial sense, but the literal-judge-a-person-by-their-cover mentality that I hope not to pass on to my kids.

This is my 1 year old...in his "inappropriate" skater clothes.








http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/levi...1139796312.jpg
http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/img_0638.jpg
http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/img_0974.jpg

And yeah, those are his black high top Chuck Taylor shoes. LOL! He loves them with all of his little heart.


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

lucy your kid is really cute..some stuff no I wouldn't put on my kid but if dh is no longer allowed to wear that clothes then kid isn't lol..Nothing wrong just not what I want my kid in personally. Its not that its the navel that bothers me its the fact shes wearing a triangle top now if it was a tankini fine.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Lucy, your ds is a real cutie...but I still don't like those clothes. Not because they remind me of gangs, but just because I don't like the look on little kids.
I actualy don't like them at all, but at least they look more like they belong on older boys, more like 8+. They have years and years to wear that stuff so I look for cute stuff as long as possible. To me one and two year olds especialy should have cute clothes. They don't surf or skateboard. You can't point to and say 'oh look at the nice skateborder' when you put it on. Well I guess you could







but that would never cross my mind, were I would point out 'The stripy zebra' which I think is more intresting to a toddler. And yes I'de be the one buying the primary colored animal overalls


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli*
Hmm. Call me wierd, but I find all this obsessing about "skimpy" "skanky" "sexy" clothing on toddlers to be another example of how we are manipulated by the culture of fear in the US. If the first thing you think when you see some toddler skin is that someone is getting turned on by it, you are projecting the "every person is a danger to my kid and wants to rape her" media hype onto your own kid.

A toddler's body is not any more sexy in a halter than in a T shirt, except in the eye of the beholder. If you are beholding it that way, perhaps YOU are the one who needs to examine your perceptions.










and im still finding it hard to see what the problem is...
im hearing that clothes shouldnt look so adult which seems to be narrowed down to shirts that give the appearance of breasts... im assuming this isnt padding or false breast in toddlers clothing but merely a certain cut of the top. which i personally dont see as a problem. and besides theres nothing wrong with breasts, theres nothing sexual about breasts. its not like a heart shaped neckline on a toddler is sexual. i dont understand that logic at all. the fronts of shirts can get boring especially with no topography but somehow its sexual if attention is drawn to it? i understand the fear of pediophiles, i think we all do as mothers, but to blame clothing is absurd. and it really needs to be said. clothing doesnt make children grow up too fast, but i think sexualizing a toddler in a triangle bikini might...
i had more thoughts but dd is demanding we go to bed right now


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Lucysmama I think your ds is adorable and I like his clothes.









I don't have a problem with little girls showing their tummy especially if it's in a bathing suit. My dd has a two piece hello kitty swimsuit and I never even thought about it being to provocative.

The toddler thong is bizarre.







I've never seen one before.

Can't imagine why the heck they'd even make them!?!?

I did see a tiny *training* bra at walmart that was padded. I was like wtf? It was totally the size for a say 10 yr old but it was like a little red push up victoria secret style bra. Hanging right up next to the undershirts and training bra's similar to what my mom bought me.


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## JenJMP (Aug 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nfpmom*
Hmmm... I personally find clothes like this
http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html
way more offensive than baggy pants on a toddler boy. YMMV though.









take care

If you look really closely, you can see the "skater dudes" lurking in the shadows waiting to steal his lunch money!

(Hi, I don't usually post here but I saw this thread and couldn't resist!)


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

JenJMP I can't imagine taking my ds out looking like that either.









This is more what I like http://www.shop.store.yahoo.com/goog...ystshirt1.html
http://store.yahoo.com/hey-baby/120.html


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nfpmom*
Hmmm... I personally find clothes like this
http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html
way more offensive than baggy pants on a toddler boy. YMMV though.









take care
















OK, now THAT's funny. Poor kid. That is offensive.

I don't like "hoochie" clothes on anyone, so I definitely don't like them on kids. However, everyone has a different definition of hooch, from what I can tell. I much prefer tailored, simple clothes without a lot of frills and without characters, cartoons, etc. for me and my kid - soon to be kids.

I'm not into bikinis on most people, because you've got to have a very specific body type to make them look good (IMHO), so I just think they're a lousy swimwear choice to begin with.







Even in my prime when I was in great shape, I still wore one pieces, for that reason (FWIW, I'm 32 now, and NOT in great shape







). And for me, the kind of body that looks good and justifies wearing a bikini is one that has boobs, a slim waist, and hips, which toddlers do not - so it just doesn't make sense to me to put a toddler in one. I can see a tankini for ease of changing diapers, but a 'womanly' bikini just looks silly on a toddler, IMHO.

I agree with many PP that it's not necessarily the exposure of skin that bothers me, it's the presentation of the clothing...I have no problem with a little girl in a cotton spaghetti strap short sundress, but a little girl in a pleather micro miniskirt and sequined tube top, yeah, that would bug me. But, it would bug me on an adult, too, so there you go.

Just another $0.02 from another mom...


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## DoubleOven (Jan 7, 2006)

:


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoubleOven*
Personally, I don't like "urban" clothing. It's not my taste, and I wouldn't put my kids in it. But I don't think that makes me prejudiced - it's simply my own sense of style, and my perception of what looks good and what doesn't. I also don't like sailor suits, double-breasted blazers or dressing siblings in exactly the same outfit, and I positively loathe Gymboree! Aren't we entitled to our own likes and dislikes without being accused of prejudice?

Of course! I was merely throwing it out there as something everyone should consider - WHY don't we like certains styles on our kids? Why do we have that perception that it "doesn't look good?" IS it because it reminds us of certain ethnicities or socio-economic backgrounds? What is style, anyway? I think it is something everyone should think about, including myself.


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Let's face it, sexy clothes are designed to stimulate sexy thoughts. I wouldn't want to help anyone have thoughts like that about my kid.

HYPOCHRITE ALERT!!!







:
Hello, my name is Susan, and I'm a hypochrite.
Hi, Susan!

Is it possible to be sexist in my thoughts about toddlers? Apparently so, because as I sat there imagining cute little girls in "hootchie" clothes, I really did think it could invite dangerous thoughts from perverted strangers. Then I had a sudden flash of memory of my kid (my SON) last summer . . . in his SPEEDO! Oh. My. God! Was he ever cute!! I mean seriously, the cutest damn thing you've ever seen with his lean little golden bronze self squeezed into that teeny tiny little purple bikini bottom (with little froggies all over it!). I guess since he was just so adorable to me, I forgot to worry about how he might be seen by others.


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## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lucysmama*
This is my 1 year old...in his "inappropriate" skater clothes.








http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/levi...1139796312.jpg
http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/img_0638.jpg
http://www.ssb4.net/users/18794/img_0974.jpg

And yeah, those are his black high top Chuck Taylor shoes. LOL! He loves them with all of his little heart.


and you know who to call when he outgrows all his 'innapropriate' clothes! lol I am there


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## Khadijah (Jul 19, 2005)

I agree with you mommas i just hate it. Hubby and i were talking about the the other day. We cant even find shoes for the kids with out some writting like G-Unit or something stupid. Even the walmart shoes have shaq or some crap on it. Cause i dont want my kids growing up thinging that hiphop is in and its cool to be wearing the latest fashions. I dont think a 2 year old needs to be wearing a bathing suit with the naval out thats just wrong and the parents need to have some common sense.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Khadijah*
I dont think a 2 year old needs to be wearing a bathing suit with the naval out thats just wrong and the parents need to have some common sense.









whats wrong with belly buttons now?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Khadijah*
I dont think a 2 year old needs to be wearing a bathing suit with the naval out thats just wrong and the parents need to have some common sense.

Why is it wrong? What is wrong with a 2 year old's navel that it should be hidden from public view?


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## Altair (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Khadijah*
Cause i dont want my kids growing up thinging that hiphop is in


NOW we get to the crux of the argument... 5 pages in. there's a huge racial/cultural undercurrent to this thread.

the very idea of "tailored" "respectable" "professional" etc. clothing is a racial, class-based signifier. That's obvious. Our society uses clothing to *mark* your class/race/personality/etc.

There's nothing objectively wrong with baggy jeans and big shorts.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
OPh I wanted to comment on age. Most of the kids i see dressed in really secualized adult clothing is older moms and/or middle upper class and up. .

I agree, all the little girls I know who wear clothing with words written across the bum or tight jeans or teenager-style have mothers in their late 30s/early 40s.
I'm 23 and my dd has never and will never wear anything that I consider imitative of sexually appealing clothing for teenagers. That said, I don't mind the fancy jeans with the butterflies on them or the little t-shirts with sparkles- to me, extremely girly is fine if that's what she likes when the time comes, as long as it's not revealing or overly mature-looking, yk?


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## Lucysmama (Apr 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Altair*
NOW we get to the crux of the argument... 5 pages in. there's a huge racial/cultural undercurrent to this thread.
There's nothing objectively wrong with baggy jeans and big shorts.

ITA and this was the point I was trying to make. Thank you for stating it that way.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

at the idea of not wanting her kids growing up thinking hip hop is "in"

When they grow up hip hop will be so retro it will be embarrassing, like 80's big hair or padded shoulders are now.

On another note: good point Altair


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## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

What bothers me about sexualized clothing on children is not the skin or the image or whether it might be attractive to a pedophile, but how it is perceived by the kids _themselves_. Do they feel pressure to "fit" an image? Children aren't stupid--they notice that adult women fill out the same styles in certain ways and that they attract sexual attention by doing so. On some level they are getting the message that THAT is what their bodies are for.

I was in JFK a couple years ago on a layover and happened to notice a 7 year old fixing her hair in a bathroom mirror. She was wearing a plunging neckline top, a miniskirt, and heels. Her hair was sleek and sophisticated. She was _so_ concerned about how she looked. She spent more time fussing in the mirror than I ever do. And I just kept thinking, "poor kid". How much time, attention, and anxiety can a seven year old spend on appearance and have a healthy sense of self?


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

ITA UUElisabeth. -- THat's the point I was trying to make about early sexualization - not that others see kids as sexual, but that they base their own self-evaluations on image and physical appearance.

I guess I'm speaking mostly about kids who are old enough to actually be aware of their clothes. But I see the end result of this focus on consumerism and sexual explotation of younger and younger girls at the high school level - early sexual activity, low self-esteem, etc. etc.


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Unless . . . does anyone really know anything about how the typical pedophile operates? My entire base of knowledge on the topic comes from Law and Order: SVU. Maybe pedophiles are so into little kids they get off more on little kids looking really little kiddish. If so, maybe dressing our kids like little grown ups is their best protection????

Oh, I'm just locking my kid in his playroom until he's 40.










ok well i am answering this, someone else might have as well but since i do have the answer to this i just quoted without reading further, although i wil read further.

i saw one of those dateline specials or whatever and they interviewed pedophiles to find what they look for ina atarget. one of the things is children dressed in sexy clothes, they actually go more for that, so in a way you are advertising to the pedophiles by dressing your children in a "sexy" manner. (stating here that pedophiles are the ones to blame here)now i think there is nothing wrong with the human body i don't want to make my dd's ashamed of their bodies in any way. my dd had skirts that end above the knee, maybe some skirts that could be considered "mini" but not really they don't show anything and come below midthigh. (to me this is mini and the ones that end anywhere above thigh are just insane on a woman any age). so before i get falmed for that i wanted to explain. but the thing is the pedophiles are out there and we as parents have a right to protect our children. well it isn't right that females should have to adjust their dress so they won't be a target of some crime that is just the way things are. is it our fault? no! but precaution should be taken even if it is unfair, and not right. i would be happy if woman could walk around topless i have advocated this since i was a child, before i ever understood anything about sexuality. guys could do it and i wanted to as well b/c it's comfertable. as a grown woman i understand why i shuldn't do that. because it's dangerous, even though it would only be fair for me to do that. I mean after all they are just lumps of fat that produce milk. that's it. but that's a little off the subject.

i disagree with shirts on toddlers that end just past their chest, but am ok with belly buttons and ok with naked topped little girls. to me cutting off the shirt up there or drawing attention by making cups or such is turning it sexual in a way, but having no shirt at all is not sexualizing, so it's not the ody that i think should be hidden, but just some of the clothes that attempt to accentuate features that little children do not have. it's innessacary. ok now that i have written a novel on the subject i am off to finish reading the thread where i left off at the question in the quote.

Courtney

also i don't have a problem with kids dressing like grown ups just a problem with kids dressed sexually. when i go to the movies and see 14 year olds in skirts that will show their underwear when they move i think it is wrong. however we are talking about toddlers and smae goes. i dress my dd's like i dress me (well josephine is to little to wear jeans yet they just look so huge on a baby so small) but i have a slightly skater-esqu/hippy style. jeans, t-shirts', hippy shirts, long sleev with a t-shirt over it, and she LOVES LOVES her chuck taylor sneakers, plus they are super cute and super flexiable, and super comfertable i have some myslef. also this is the kind of clothes i have always worn. now my twin wears preppy/proffesional clothes i imagine her kids will wear the same type of stuff, again ok. my friends kid wears what you all describe as "thuggish, hood type clothes" and he looks cute, although i wonder how well he can get around in the shorts that the crotch goes to his knees. which is why o don;t dress dd in long to the floor skirts like i wear it would interfer with her play. my one and onmly qualm is sexualized clothes ok my other one is stuff kids can't play in, move in, or God forbid get dirty. who the hell made dry clean only kids clothes that's what i want to know, and hand wash only?? like a mom has rime for that. c'mon.

yes i have my own opinions and i am fine with that, i respect everyone else's and am willing to listen to discussions and ideas that differ from my own. he he sorry i have never done a disclaimer before it was kind of fun.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poxybat*







whats wrong with belly buttons now?









My babies belly buttons are my favorite part of their bodies. It was where they were connected to me.









Everytime I blow on them, kiss them, or tickle their cute little tummies, I have this huge rush of love and bliss.

My nine year old has a "surfer" look, down to the sun-bleached longish wavy hair that is never neat. My seven year old baby girl dresses from punk to prude and back again, but no high heals, she wears the maryjanes from Landsend in every color. I will not buy her 'hoochie" clothes, but if she earns the money, then she can spend it how she likes. My darling baby boy, only 16 months, wears t-shirts and jeans, just like dada.


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

I dont think a 2 year old needs to be wearing a bathing suit with the naval out thats just wrong and the parents need to have some common sense.








: Nice.

Its the judgmental attitude on this thread that makes me sick, not a baby in a halter top.


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## Genna (Feb 17, 2006)

Well as far as little girls clothes- I think there is a difference between a bikini and a 2 piece bathing suit. A bikini has the triangle top and skimpy bottom, a two piece has a straight across full coverage top and appropriate bottoms that cover everything. If I have a DD, she will not wear a bikini... but MAYBE a 2 piece. Living in Hawaii, I'd actually prefer a one piece, shorts and short sleeve sun protective suit like my son wears, since we are all very fair skinned.

I've always had a "rock/alternative" inspired style, so I do indeed dress my son with little rock/punk clothes. And yes, *gasp* he has a mohawk. Its fun, its adorable, and its not hurting him! I'd most likely dress my daughter the same way- just in girly colors! Of course once they are old enough to pick their clothes out I would not force that style on them... but I've always been an individual and gone against the "norm" and I really do NOT think that is a bad thing to pass to my children!
Here's my cutie: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a25...7/P2081116.jpg


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

genna i love the style you speak of and there are so many cute clothes that i would want to get if i could afford to, if you google punk baby you get some great stuff, but to me i would never pay $18.00 for a kids shirt., let alone a shirt for me.

courtney


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
i saw one of those dateline specials or whatever and they interviewed pedophiles to find what they look for ina atarget. one of the things is children dressed in sexy clothes, they actually go more for that, so in a way you are advertising to the pedophiles by dressing your children in a "sexy" manner. (stating here that pedophiles are the ones to blame here)now i think there is nothing wrong with the human body i don't want to make my dd's ashamed of their bodies in any way.
*snip*
but the thing is the pedophiles are out there and we as parents have a right to protect our children. well it isn't right that females should have to adjust their dress so they won't be a target of some crime that is just the way things are. is it our fault? no! but precaution should be taken even if it is unfair, and not right.

i dont think changing clothing styles is a precaution... i see your arguement but i think it may be harmful to assume you can control the thoughts of dangerous people with something as minor as a wardrobe change, im not trying to minimize your concerns. i feel like maybe some women would think that and it may let them sit in denial and think that children who are victimized did something(or in this case, wore something) that made them targets and thus victims. women tend to do that more, they try to distance themselves, so they can think it can never happen to them. dont dress your dc's 'innocently' and think that equals safety. read 'protecting the gift' and empower your child.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
i would be happy if woman could walk around topless i have advocated this since i was a child, before i ever understood anything about sexuality. guys could do it and i wanted to as well b/c it's comfertable. as a grown woman i understand why i shuldn't do that. because it's dangerous

dangerous? by this logic then breastfeeding in public is just as dangerous.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jewelysmommy*
to me cutting off the shirt up there or drawing attention by making cups or such is turning it sexual in a way, but having no shirt at all is not sexualizing
*snip*
some of the clothes that attempt to accentuate features that little children do not have. it's innessacary.

do you have an example of 'cups' on toddlers clothing? im having a hard time picturing it. i dont really understand how breast=sex somehow but im trying hard to see the argument... i saw a cute shirt that could be construed as having breasts but i didnt see it as sexual and had a really hard time understanding how anyone who isnt a pediophile could. and i dont understand the 'drawing attention' thing, do you think children also should not wear bright coloured shirts? they definitely draw attention to the chest. im thinking it may be a cultural thing. to me there are nice clothes and ugly clothes, warm weather clothes and cold weather clothes... i dont understand what 'sexy' clothes are. im not turned on by fabric
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny*







My babies belly buttons are my favorite part of their bodies. It was where they were connected to me.
























im feeling the belly button love too

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kate42*
I saw a size 2T thong once and couldn't believe it! What toddler would be happy with undies stuffed in their little tushies?

what *woman* would be happy with undies stuffed in their little tushies?







now toddler thongs are very confusing. i cant see anyone wanting a fulltime wedgie let alone a toddler. i so cant understand thongs. and it seems everytime i go looking for maternity underwear all i can find is maternity thongs. the very thought just blows my mind. im huge and pregnant and cranky and i add a wedgie and cold buttcheeks. no thanks! as you can see im biased anti thong though...
after some thought i think perhaps they have them for very small girls in dance class. wasnt there a thread about one mom finding her dd's thongs and turns out she needed them for dance class...

toddlers are babies. by getting all worked up about hiding a baby's diaper, a baby's thighs, ect. youre sexualizing them. its like the arguement of being modest while breastfeeding, if you act like youre doing something wrong youre reinforcing the idea that its wrong and people should be uncomfortable.
when it comes down to it its all about being comfortable in your skin and choices. and respecting people... it doesnt really matter what anyone wears when it comes down to it...


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Altair*
NOW we get to the crux of the argument... 5 pages in. there's a huge racial/cultural undercurrent to this thread.

the very idea of "tailored" "respectable" "professional" etc. clothing is a racial, class-based signifier. That's obvious. Our society uses clothing to *mark* your class/race/personality/etc.

There's nothing objectively wrong with baggy jeans and big shorts.

I have VERY conflicted feelings about this...so prepare yourself for a stream of consciousness...









I have met people in tailored, professional clothing that are obnoxious boors and I don't want to associate with them. I LOVE their clothes, but I don't like who they are.

My DH's sister and her hubby, they are 100% "grunge" clothes, and are kind, intelligent, genuine people. I DON'T like their clothing at all, but I like who they are very much.

My mom dresses very tailored, professional, and is gentle, endearing, and fun to be with. I love her AND her clothes.

My DH's brother dresses "grunge", and is has caused the family MUCH pain by his actions. I don't like him, OR the way he dresses.

Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, or myself too much credit, but when I look at clothes and like or hate them, I don't make snap judgements about the person in them *simply* based on their clothes - I've had too many experiences where the cover does not reveal what is inside, going in BOTH directions (i.e., not everyone in trendy clothes is vain and vapid; not everyon in tailored clothes is conservative and oppressive; not everyone in "grunge" is cool and open minded - life is not that simple). I evaluate people by the way they conduct themselves rather than the clothes that are on their back. Case in point: I was at the DMV yesterday. I am light skinned, light haired, short female and was wearing a black maternity tee and boot cut jeans with sneakers. A guy came in, dark skinned, tall, wearing some FUBU stuff and had a do rag and stood in line behind me. I smiled at him like I would any other person I initially encounter. He smiled back, and struck up a conversation about DS, asked if I was having a boy or girl, and then we complained about the guy at the desk who had NOTHING prepared and was taking forever - then went back to waiting individually. Now, I didn't really like what he was wearing at all, but I didn't assume anything about him until I talked to him, and he turned out to be nice. Then, 2 light skinned people came in, dressed similar to me, and I smiled at the woman in the pair. She stared right through me and scowled the whole time, so that was the end of that. So even though I liked her clothes, I didn't feel any need to talk to her at all. Then, leaving the building, passed by 2 "urban" dressed guys, smiled at them, and they ignored me. So there you go.

_On the other hand_, I do believe that people sometimes choose clothing to make a statement. And, I don't necessarily buy that *our society* uses clothing to mark class/race/personality/etc. I think it's a chicken/egg thing - if a majority of the members of a group that you identify with and share values with, or aspire towards dresses a certain way, you might want to emulate that to feel like part of the group - but I don't blame that on society - because really, if an overwhelming majority of people from a certain way of life dress a certain way, how can you *not* associate that clothing with the way of life? what happened first? Did "society" assign the clothing style to the group of people to mark them, or did the people dress similarly to have a sense of community and belonging, and then the wider group of society recognized this? Who is to say in which order it happens. I think the problem is when certain groups are judged as "bad" or "good" based on their clothes, as opposed to the way they conduct themselves. THAT is the problem, IMO.

I think it's just as unfair to accuse someone who dislikes "urban" clothing of being a racist/classist as it is to accuse someone who doesn't like "professional" clothing of being antiestablishment. Maybe they just don't like the clothes. As I said above, I just don't like grunge clothes. That doesn't mean I don't like the grunge "culture" - far from it - I just really don't like the clothes. I do, however, think a lot of the more trendy clothes are cute, but I don't like the trendy culture....so it can work both ways.

I'm sure I've just talked myself in circles, but as I said, I have very mixed feelings about clothing and images projected versus who a person "really" is.

If you've read this far, congratulations on enduring another one of my rambles! Now, I'm going to go change into a Monty Python tshirt DH got me, and a pair of black yoga pants...what does that say about me?


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## nfpmom (Jun 4, 2004)

Lucysmama-
I love your son's clothes. Thats definitely the style I gravitate towards for my son as well.
take care


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

nak



poxybat said:


> i dont think changing clothing styles is a precaution... i see your arguement but i think it may be harmful to assume you can control the thoughts of dangerous people with something as minor as a wardrobe change, im not trying to minimize your concerns. i feel like maybe some women would think that and it may let them sit in denial and think that children who are victimized did something(or in this case, wore something) that made them targets and thus victims. women tend to do that more, they try to distance themselves, so they can think it can never happen to them. dont dress your dc's 'innocently' and think that equals safety. read 'protecting the gift' and empower your child.
> 
> 
> > it's not that i believe that if i don't dress my child like that she is automaticlly safe, but it is one thing i CAN do to try and protect her, i can also teach her the proper terminology for her privatyes b/c one of the other things pedophiles look for is kids who have cutesy nicknames for their privates. do i think this means my children can'r eb victums? i am not that naive, but i will do what i can and i will check out the book.
> ...


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

Boy, I disagree with you on so many levels here it's hard to know where to start. Good thing I just got a fresh glass of wine.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poxybat*

dangerous? by this logic then breastfeeding in public is just as dangerous [as going topless].

Let's start here. Do you really not see a vast difference between strolling around topless and nursing in public? C'mon. Conjure up an image of, oh, let's say Bo Derek jogging topless along the surf. Now imagine some mom on a park bench with her baby nuzzled in her lap, with maybe a fraction of an inch of skin showing. Maybe it's just the bi in me, but I'm seeing one as far more inclined to stir up a sexual thought or two.

Quote:

i dont really understand how breast=sex somehow
See above . . .

Quote:

i dont understand what 'sexy' clothes are. im not turned on by fabric.
Maybe it's like that old saying about pornography . . . how does it go? I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it. I'm guessing you really do know what sexy clothes are when you see them. Think Beyonce; think Brittney Spears; think the slutty girls you weren't allowed to hang out with in high school; think how you dressed when you were trying to get the attention of that someone special (or just special enough for that night). I'm an old married trout now so the only sexy clothes I wear are hidden under my milk stained tee shirts and Spaghettio smeared jeans. (And yes, I do wear thongs. If you get the kind with the _really_ teeny tiny string in the back you hardly know they're there.)

Quote:

it doesnt really matter what anyone wears when it comes down to it...
Yeah, tell that to Madonna next time she decides to reinvent herself.


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Really smart idea those cloths







: Let the perverts have something else to look forward to SICK SICK SICK


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frowningfrog*
Im talking about real children who are wearing these clothes and we live in a different time and little girls should NOT be wearing these things.
In a town in my state a commuter train worker was fired of statements he continuously made to a woman and her 7 yr old child....the child was NOT wearing anything out of the ordinary and this man continued to tell her mother what a nice Arse her DD had and how he would love to "tap" that.
So I only hope that the women who DO find these clothing cute and hilarious to adorn their children with think twice. I do not eve nwant to tink of what may have happened if that man had not been fired.

thats all...sorry like I said I do not mean to offend anyone ...this is MY opinion.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemy2ds*
Really smart idea those cloths Let the perverts have something else to look forward to SICK SICK SICK

So if a woman gets raped, it's her fault for wearing a short skirt? Because you're using the same logic.

I don't care if that little girl had been wearing pants and long-sleeved turtlenecks, or if she had been wearing a string bikini. IT IS NOT HER FAULT, and IT IS NOT HER PARENT'S FAULT that the guy was making disgusting comments about that. Sex crimes are generally commited for power and control, not for sexual satisfaction. Any person who would make such a disgusting comment about a child is very, very sick. The way that the girl was dressed has absolutely nothing to do with it.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Unless . . . does anyone really know anything about how the typical pedophile operates? My entire base of knowledge on the topic comes from Law and Order: SVU. Maybe pedophiles are so into little kids they get off more on little kids looking really little kiddish. If so, maybe dressing our kids like little grown ups is their best protection????

Not too sure you can generalise about paedophiles any more than you can about any other group, some probably get off on sexualised kids, some on innocents, some on the skater look, some on the preppy look, just like people of "normal" sexualities. As many of us learned recently, some are into diapers, there is no way of knowing WHAT specifically will attract a paedophile to a particular kid and blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris*
. . . blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".

*It's SO scary having a kid.* As if I don't spend enough time obsessing about potential fatal diseases, head injuries from the coffee table, car wrecks, poisonous spiders, choking on grapes, falling out the bedroom window, is that a bump or a brain tumor? Now I have to worry about fashion!

Seriously, I don't worry so much about my son's wardrobe attracting attention (as I said earlier, he is GORGEOUS in a Speedo); what scares me more is his personality. Heading off topic here, but I have raised him (by example) to be incredibly friendly. He says hi to everyone he sees. He'll give a kiss or a hug to a stranger. It makes me very conflicted, because I want him to be friendly and open and loving, but I also want him to be safe.

How do we strike that balance?


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby*
So if a woman gets raped, it's her fault for wearing a short skirt? Because you're using the same logic.

.

it's not her fault, but it is reality. it sucks but these people ARE OUT THERE.they are out there and they are more inclined to go for women or children dressed a certain way. i mean they even interviewed pedophiles and straight for the horses mouth said that they are MORE APT (those being the key words, so it's not always) to go after a child that is dressed in a certain manner. facts of it. is it the child's fault or the parents fault??? NO because if there was n'ty little girls (or women) dressed like this THEY WOULD STILL DO IT , but you can decrease your odds. not by m,uch i suppose but you know what when it comes to MY precious daughter i will do EVERYTHING i can to protect her. so no not her fault not the parents b/c it would still happen if no one was dressed like that, but as long as people are dressed like that it's like a zebra among horses.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

jewelysmommy I agree. If you have a few kids over for a birthday say and you go to the beach you have no idea of who could be watching. If by chance a pediphile is looking ick! Who is more likly to get looked at more, depending on the pediphiles bent. The girls in the itty bitty bikini /boy in the spedo (Sorry Heffernhyphen but I think thats reality) or the kids coverd up more by a sunsuit, trunks, t-shirt etc. Sadly I think it's the less coverd kids.
I hate the thought of some sicko drooling over my kids, so if those people are around there gonna get less to drool over.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
Do people really grow up faster for lack of primary colored overall outfits?

But...but...but...







I love primary colored outfits. I'd buy kid clothes for myself if they made them in my size!


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
If by chance a pediphile is looking ick! Who is more likly to get looked at more, depending on the pediphiles bent. The girls in the itty bitty bikini /boy in the spedo (Sorry Heffernhyphen but I think thats reality) or the kids coverd up more by a sunsuit, trunks, t-shirt etc. Sadly I think it's the less coverd kids.

Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:

"she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".
Never said that, never implied that, never thought that. How could an innocent child want or deserve to be the victom of a pedephile. That IMO is sick!

I guess we can't know the mind of a pedephile, but I still think giving them less to see is better. God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Are you really trying to bring God into this?


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Sure why not







Some of us here are Christians. So yer when I choose clothes God does come into it.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby*
Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.

Exactly. I don't dress my children based on "protecting them" from pedophiles. I protect my children by watching them, knowing who their friends, friends parents, neighbors are. Pedophiles choose children based on availability and because they are children...not because they are dressed in "provocative" clothing.

I personally don't dress my kids in "provocative" clothing because I think children are rushed out of childhood in general. They don't need to dress like teens or college students when they are 4, 6, 8 and 11. Finding comfortable children's clothes, especially for my dd, has been a challenge for me since she left size 6 (so when she was 5). I don't notice the same shift in boys clothing. My dd has always loved comfortable dresses, leggings and t shirts. We made our foray into Limited Too last year as she had been admiring some of the sparkly shirts. You know what, she didn't wear them anymore than her other shirts and she didn't like the overstimulation of the store. It's like anything in parenting, following the child's lead.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

But...but...can we just go back to THIS http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html

and at least reach a consensus on something? That this is just plain WRONG??? Oh man, that poor boy. Someone rescue him from the pageant circuit!!!


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## MamaPam (Oct 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
Sure why not







Some of us here are Christians. So yer when I choose clothes God does come into it.

I think this might be the source of a lot of the conflict in this discussion. As a Christian my view on clothing types and modesty is different then that of others as I would expect it to be. And I don't expect non-christians to understand/agree with my view on this topic.

Pam


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## joandsarah77 (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:

I don't expect non-christians to understand/agree with my view on this topic.
Oh yes, I don't expect understanding or agreement, but it is one of my reasons.

As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff







maybe for a garden party with the queen


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## wintermagick (Feb 19, 2006)

Yuck!!! I've not seen anything like this... but then my little one is still in that stage between baby and toddler. And most of her clothes are given to us by granparents.

Yes... _who_ designs these?


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## Heffernhyphen (May 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff

I'll tell you who, my neighbor. The one who turned us in for child abuse because our parenting styles are about as different as our clothing styles. My husband and I like to joke that they won't let their kid out of his bedroom unless he's in a coordinated outfit with French words on it. Meanwhile, our wild child is in the front yard in a dirty jammie top and cloth diaper.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Let's start here. Do you really not see a vast difference between strolling around topless and nursing in public? C'mon. Conjure up an image of, oh, let's say Bo Derek jogging topless along the surf. Now imagine some mom on a park bench with her baby nuzzled in her lap, with maybe a fraction of an inch of skin showing. Maybe it's just the bi in me, but I'm seeing one as far more inclined to stir up a sexual thought or two.

well of course theres a difference. but i guess im comming from the angle of breasts not being inherently sexy no matter what theyre doing.
the image of bo derek made me thankful for bras, i dont know her or what cup size she is but i cant imagine running topless. ow. its all in the eye of the beholder i guess. what if the person seeing the woman being rediculously descreet is a lactation fetishist? does that make breastfeeding sexy? im not a fan of nursing descreetly so im not really able to pull off the 'fraction of an inch of skin' look but even with boobs flapping in the wind i certaintly dont think thats sexy... this reminds me of my friend. she was nursing her distractable newly toddler daughter and forgot to put her breasts away. then she went outside to play with her daughter in the front yard. eventually she figured out why everyone was gawking at her... maybe some people would but i dont find that sexy...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
I'm guessing you really do know what sexy clothes are when you see them. Think Beyonce; think Brittney Spears; think the slutty girls you weren't allowed to hang out with in high school; think how you dressed when you were trying to get the attention of that someone special (or just special enough for that night).

well i guess this explains it... i wasnt banned from seeing anyone based on fashion choices, my mom didnt make stuff like that an issue. i think beyonce and britney spears wear alot of clothes, well i mean they wear long pants, underwear isnt hanging out, ect. and wow i dont recall ever having a consious thought of wearing something special for anyone's attention. im serious... i may run around in next to nothing sometimes(when im not huge and pregnant) but im deffinitely not doing it for anything other than my own comfort.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Yeah, tell that to Madonna next time she decides to reinvent herself.

my issue is with that womans music not her fashion sense.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris*
there is no way of knowing WHAT specifically will attract a paedophile to a particular kid and blaming the clothes is just another way of sticking your head in the sand and thinking "it can't happen to me".











Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heffernhyphen*
Seriously, I don't worry so much about my son's wardrobe attracting attention (as I said earlier, he is GORGEOUS in a Speedo); what scares me more is his personality. Heading off topic here, but I have raised him (by example) to be incredibly friendly. He says hi to everyone he sees. He'll give a kiss or a hug to a stranger. It makes me very conflicted, because I want him to be friendly and open and loving, but I also want him to be safe.
How do we strike that balance?

there is a section in 'protecting the gift' about teaching children to talk to strangers. its awesome... i must sound like i own stock in this book







seriously though i think everyone should read it, its all about protecting your children. https://www.gavindebecker.com/books-ptg.cfm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.

if god had intended us to wear clothes we would have been born in them









Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby*
Again, crimes of a sexual nature are generally committed for a feeling of power, NOT for a feeling of sexual pleasure. Pedophiles are not looking for children wearing bikinis, they're looking for children. Period.

This line of thinking is the same line of "reasoning" that people use to justify not allowing gay scout leaders. Because people are afraid that they'll lust after helpless children.

In the majority of cases where children are sexually abused, the crime is committed by someone that the child knows - and that person is generally someone who is in a supervisory role over the child (parent, teacher, babysitter, etc.), and about 60% of rapes and sexual assualts occur within the home. As many as 80% of sex crime perpetrators have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder.

This isn't a case of someone seeing a little girl in a short skirt and thinking that it's sexy. It's a serious mental issue that goes far beyond that. I think that when people assume that their children are safter because of the way that they're dressed, then it creates a false sense of security. And I think that it's pretty alarmist to say that someone is going to be more of a target for a sex crime (or any kind of violent crime, for that matter) because of the way that they're dressed. And it just smacks of victim blaming, and it's disgusting. It really reads no differently than, "she was wearing a short skirt, she must have wanted it, so she deserved it".

It is no different, IMO, than to assume that a woman is a slut because of the way that she dresses. Which is misogynistic and ridiculous in the first place. But it gets worse when we start trying to indoctrinate little girls into that same mold, making judgement calls about them based on what they're wearing. Our society gives women enough to deal with when it comes to sexuality and body issues. We don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire.

























Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
As for http://www.strasburgchildren.com/grshse.html who buys that stuff







maybe for a garden party with the queen









ahhh! make it stop!!!


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

All right, I've read through this whole thing, and ....

Wow. Just. Wow.

The judgemental attitudes from some of you really have me wondering how "open-minded" you claim you are raising your children.

"Hootchie", "Skanky", and "Slutty" in the way you women are using them are derrogatory, offensive and down right mean.

A few momma's here have made really good points on *their opinions* both for and against these type of clothing. But I do not and will not be open to someones opinion who insists on using slut, skank, or hootch as part of their reason as to why they don't like the clothing.

Those mama's are sexualizing the clothes themselves by calling it skanky, slutty, and hootchie and then claim that others will view it as such. Well, you are in essance encouraging others to view it that way because YOU are viewing it that way.

**Bolds and inderlines my emphasis**

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eminer*
Well, I honestly think that these issues have more to do with your perception of adult attire and sexuality and the social context than with age appropriateness. I never went "clubbing" and would consider it degrading to go around wearing clothes for the sole purpose of turning other people on. I do sometimes wear skimpy clothes to the beach, however. Why? Because I love feeling the breeze and sand and water on my skin. Because I feel good and sexy in the best, most meaningful sense: *beautiful, unashamed in my body, unashamed to enjoy it. It took me a long time to get there, partly because I heard comments like those in this thread and developed negative impressions and feelings.* *snip* Bikinis aren't what hurt girls and their developing sexuality. And underwear should follow the contour of our bodies. When my dd wears briefs, they slip down under her little belly and the extra fabric bunches up. She likes them anyway, and I support her.







But what would be wrong with underwear shaped more like her? And um, shirts that show her cute little belly button...?!









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucysmama*
I must say I am totally shocked by how *many people think a child's navel exposed in a swimsuit is wrong or inappropriate. Is this really the message we want to send our kids? That their navels are somehow sexual and we must cover them for fear that a hypothetical predator may find it arousing?* I just do not get this.
*snip*
I think the problem here is that lots of people associate a style of clothing with a certain ethnicity, a certain socio-economic background, a certain sexual fetish, a lack of religion perhaps, a lack of moral fiber maybe, and they find it inappropriate to see a child (or their child) associated with this. *This reeks of prejudism to me, not in the racial sense, but the literal-judge-a-person-by-their-cover mentality that I hope not to pass on to my kids.*









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:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *genna*
Well as far as little girls clothes- I think there is a difference between a bikini and a 2 piece bathing suit. A bikini has the triangle top and skimpy bottom, a two piece has a straight across full coverage top and appropriate bottoms that cover everything.

I'm sorry, I know you are trying to decern between two styles, but I just have to say it... a bikini is two pieces of cloth yes? That covers the same portions that the bathing suit "2 piece" does? Both of them are 2 pieces, end of story, some just like a different style than what your 2 piece style it. That does not mean that bikini's are different type of bathing suit at all. What is it called then? A duo piece if not a straight 2 piece?







I'm sorry, I'm trying to throw in a little humor here, not sure if it's getting across what with my mood of the overall thread.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joandsarah77*
God gave clothes as a covering for a reason.

So, why were Adam and Eve born naked? And why did they only use "clothes" after they got thrown out of the Garden? Apparently they were perfectly OK to go clothes free in the Garden. That doesn't tell me that God intended us to wear clothes... IMO...


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