# alfie kohn got negative applause today



## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

last night, I attended a parents night with alfie kohn. all went well, several babes in slings hanging out with parents.

then today, he spoke to educators and they were not happy with his message. neither was I, the first time I heard it...but I obviously took something from that initial experience because I have come along way...and adored meeting and chatting with him.

in several weeks I am speaking to parents about alternatives in discipline and we are watching a snippit of his unconditional parenting dvd...I know it is hard to question yourself and your beliefs but sheesh, to totally close yourself off to any possibility of hearing that you can do "working with" even with babies was sad. sorry but being a parent or careprovider is supposed to be work....not that it isn't rewarding, it is, but it also requires alot of work on the part of the parent to actually work through a conflict, concern or problem.

sorry for the rant but even more than parents using gd, i find it even more important for care providers to becuase they don't know your child (they will or hopefully will, over time). they have to do a working with apporach to begin to learn about your child...


----------



## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

sorry i have had several glasses of wine and may have mnissed the main point of your post but wow - you met alfie kohn!!!!


----------



## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

SIGH-- educators can be so closed minded and resistant to change sometimes! And then there are the educators who are SO open, which is why they are educators....

And ditto the wow! you met him!


----------



## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

brendon, found this thread. Wow, they booed him. That in itself seems kind of disrespectful.


----------



## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pam_and_Abigail*
brendon, found this thread. Wow, they booed him. That in itself seems kind of disrespectful.

They booed him? Yikes, that's sad. What state??

Where did he speak? What did he say particularly that made them booo?

Did they boo *everything* he said?


----------



## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Was it b/c of his new book re. homework?

Details! Details!


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

: I'm trying to imagine what negative applause sounds like.


----------



## themamamama (Jul 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *famousmockngbrd*
I'm trying to imagine what negative applause sounds like.









I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## traceface (Feb 17, 2003)

Is negative applause when people all clap over and over in unison?

I think I've been at performances before where that happened in a negative way...


----------



## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *traceface*
Is negative applause when people all clap over and over in unison?

You mean like one person clapping in a sarcastic way? Like - Clap. Pause. Clap. Pause. Clap. A bunch of people doing that, in unison?

That is so intimidating. That's worse than being booed. That requires coordination and purpose! Booing is just hollering.


----------



## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oliversmum2000*
sorry i have had several glasses of wine and may have mnissed the main point of your post but wow - you met alfie kohn!!!!























Yeah, can you tell us more? (and I even did not have any alchohol














)


----------



## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

sorry, I was tired and not totally with it yesterday,
so anywho

it was a conference in ny for infant and toddler teachers/educators

I know the lady who helped to bring him to the area....she totally believes in his message and wanted to share the alternative to praise and punishment with a larger body of people, so she brought in alfie.

the saturday keynote with alfie started off well. we chatted in small groups about what "doing to" looks like in daycare and what "working with" looks like in daycare and then he worked into what punishment, consequences and positive reinforcement and praise does to children. this is when a women spoke up about and confronted him about "some children need to be pushed to be big kids or they will never grow up and or potty train". "they need to be told what and how to do things becuase they do not have the good sense to do it themselves."
so people actually applauded this women (which is how i saw it as negative applause, as it wasn't geared toward him and his message but at this women for going against him)

I know change isn't easy but I am also a person who looks for certain types of change...i like to confront those things that may be uncomfortable...it can only make for a better world...i know many people either disagree with confrontation and change.

He didn't back down from his stance...he said this would be hard and it would make you confront things that may make you feel uncomfortable. he talked about the research and what it showed....just as a reminder that he "didn't just make this all up once morning" but that there is lots of evidence that backs up his beliefs. he is not asking us to be little alfie kohns but to at least be willing to question why we do what we do with young children. and i think that is what bothered this woman so much.

Yes, I met and spoke with Alfie. Very fun! easy to talk to and well, neat to meet. he admitted that he isn't even as "working with" as some other people who use his methods/beliefs are...neat guy!


----------



## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

My carefully constructed idol is gone







:

Just joking.

But on the serious note this kinda goes against the belief *I thought* he held...


----------



## Drewsmom (Jan 12, 2002)

Wow, to hear Alfie Kohn in person! I just emailed his website not expecting that I would get a personal response. I wanted to see what the process would be to have him speak to the educators in our school district (which is huge). Incidentally his speaking engagements usually cost quite a bit which is understandable, he is trying to cut down on travel to be with his family more.

I really love the books that i've read and I always tell people that the first 4 chapters or more just commit yourself to finish reading it. I was almost upset myself thinking how off his ideas were and then I finally started to understand 3/4s of the way through. I *love* his ideas and they are _so_ diff. from most everyone else and so respectful towards children. It has helped not only my parenting but my marriage as well to apply these principles of trying to not to do "to" but to work with and also trying to show unconditional love.

I admit that if I worked in a daycare it would be extremely difficult to apply these principles but the preschool that I sent ds#1 to used them, that's where I found out about the book in the first place.


----------



## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

He didn't back down from his stance...he said this would be hard and it would make you confront things that may make you feel uncomfortable.
Did he really say _"things that may make you feel uncomfortable_" or were you paraphrasing? Just curious because studying the concept of "making someone feel a certain way" is a hobby of mine


----------



## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

paraphrasing. he actually replied by stating the stats/research about punishment and rewards. from what he said I believe he said "change".

I have been thinking about what happened at the conference and wondered how often he is confronted while speaking. what he proposes is, for many people, very radical. most parents I know would/have never spanked but they use praise alot. i never thought I was a controlling person until I watched the dvd.


----------



## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *irinam*







My carefully constructed idol is gone







:

Just joking.

But on the serious note this kinda goes against the belief *I thought* he held...

???


----------



## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SugarAndSun*
???

I admire Alfie Kohn's work and he gave me lots of insights on child rearing. Hence I jokingly refered to him as "my idol"

I disagree with the stance he took (as described by OP). Hence I said "idol is gone", jokingly implying that the idolized image of Alfie Kohn that I constructed in my head can not exist anymore.

Hope this makes a little more sense.

ETA Just re-read. So did the woman confronted him when *he* said "some children need to be pushed to be big kids or they will never grow up and or potty train" or were those *her* words?
May be I misuderstood?







:


----------



## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

ETA Just re-read. So did the woman confronted him when *he* said "some children need to be pushed to be big kids or they will never grow up and or potty train" or were those *her* words?
May be I misuderstood?
I understood them to be her words..


----------



## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *famousmockngbrd*
You mean like one person clapping in a sarcastic way? Like - Clap. Pause. Clap. Pause. Clap. A bunch of people doing that, in unison?
.

OT: wasn't that a SNL skit? The sarcastic clappers? Seriously, I remember, maybe in the late 80s...

The NPR (Diane Rehm show) interview I heard with him, most of the callers disagreed with him (i.e. Homework Fanclub). He holds his own very well. My husband, an ex-debater, wondered if Kohn was a debater when he was younger as well.

The dude messes with your head. And likes it.


----------



## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama*
OT: wasn't that a SNL skit? The sarcastic clappers? Seriously, I remember, maybe in the late 80s...

The NPR (Diane Rehm show) interview I heard with him, most of the callers disagreed with him (i.e. Homework Fanclub). He holds his own very well. My husband, an ex-debater, wondered if Kohn was a debater when he was younger as well.

The dude messes with your head. And likes it.

I listened to that too and thought the same thing







He likes it.


----------



## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flyingspaghettimama* 

The dude messes with your head. And likes it.

I love that in a man


----------



## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

My sons teacher went to see him, and she LOVES him. (YAY for my son) but she too stated that he was beat up on verbally and his ideas were not welcomed by most.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

This just reminded me that I have the Unconditional Parenting DVD out on loan from a friend and need to watch it.


----------

