# Mother's Against Spanking ....



## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

First off let me say, I am not trying to start an Argument nor am I trying to judge anyone. I am simply asking opinions and/or beliefs and the reasons behind those beliefs.

I haven't been on Mothering this time very long, but I was for a while when my son was younger, I have started back recently and done quite a bit of reading. I haven't seen any threads on spanking whether good or bad however in a lot of the posts I have been reading about children's behavior, most of the one's that are having issues with their kids either don't believe in Any kind of punishment or spanking. I would just like to know what the reasons or logic behind some of these are. 

Thanks :grin:


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you may find more insight in the Gentle Discipline forum. My own views are fairly simple - I don't believe in using violence to solve problems (it doesn't) and I don't believe in hitting children. Spanking seems to be defined differently than hitting by those who use it, as if being traditional made it into something other than striking a child. It isn't.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

I realized after I posted this I should have probably put it in the gentle discipline section .. Thanks :smile:


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

Moved to Gentle Discipline for you.


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## luckiest (Apr 29, 2009)

So many reasons why I believe spanking is never okay...hard to even know where to start!

I don't want my kids to hit people, and they won't learn that if they think that hitting is a way to solve problems. I think it is the peak of hypocrisy to hit a child as a punishment for hitting. 

I think it's seriously twisted to tell kids that you hit them out of love for them (this is for your own good/if you didn't misbehave I wouldn't have to do this - that is the language of an abusive relationship).

Similar to above, I think it primes kids to accept and/or use violence in their adult relationships, using the same justifications that they heard from their parents as a kid. 

It isn't acceptable to hit someone in any other situation, so why is hitting a child okay? If you hit your partner, it's spousal abuse. Hit another adult, it's assault. Hit a kid and it's...discipline? I don't think so. 

It doesn't work. There is always an alternative. 

I always hear the justification that someone never spanks out of anger, that they always explain what they're doing and why they're doing it. I actually think that's worse that lashing out in anger. If you lose your cool and lash out at your child, you can apologize, say you were wrong to do that, and ask their forgiveness. When you justify it to them, they learn that it's an okay thing to do, or that it's some bizarre expression of love and care. 

I mean, how do we feel when our kids hit us? Angry, powerless. Why do we think they would feel differently? It drives a wedge between the two of you and prevents future cooperation. 

And I don't think that "milder" spanking is any more acceptable - spanking, swatting, slapping, smacking - whether or not it leaves a mark, doesn't matter, it's still violence and it's unacceptable to treat people that way. Kids are people. It's sad that that needs to be said. Being a person's parent does not give you some magical right to treat them badly. 


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

It doesn't teach anything to spank.

Whenever a child is in need of correction, the thing you wish them to do must be taught. This is sometimes called a Replacement Skill. If they had the skill they needed, they wouldn't engage in the wrong/disruptive behavior. Taking a teaching approach is much more effective than punishment for the sake of instilling fear.


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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

The most important reason to never spank is that there is plenty of evidence that spanking is not needed because there are more effective discipline methods.

And there is evidence that excessive spanking causes harm. But some spanking advocates try to get around the implications of this evidence by advocating just a little bit of kid-beating.

As far as I know, there are no non-religious parenting gurus that are still advocating spanking, but the advocates are not all out front about the religious connection, some pretend to be secular. These religious types are simply immune to reason and evidence.

Back to the key reason for not spanking: Evidence from scientific studies to determine the best parenting methods shows that spanking is never the best reaction to unwanted behavior, therefore it is never needed.

Jbuck2013, if you have a specific scenario where you think spanking your kids is the best method, please post about it.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

Scientific methods?? How exactly does that work with spanking? And what are other methods? One suggested the thing you wanted them to do must be taught. What about the kids that are "taught" or told several times and keep doing or not doing that specific thing? Do you just let it go and say they are "spirited" because I hear that word being used a lot. As far as an example, how about, your child is playing a video game and gets mad at the game, fusses etc, is told if they cannot control their temper they will have to get off the game, child loses their temper again and told to get off the game, turns to the mother and SCREAMS no to the mother. Said child got a spanking and has Never as much as raised his voice to his mother again. I am not trying to sway anyone either way. I have my views, some of you have yours. However, I tried to start this out by being non judgmental, however it is Obvious that I will be judged and that's ok because everyone is entitled to their opinion on how to parent. I am just honestly trying to get actual methods and explanations. I personally don't want to parent my child based on "scientific" information, other than the vaccinations issue. That makes sense for the scientific argument in my opinion. So before you blast away, I am only inquiring, not judging like I am Sure I will be :smile: For the record though, I Rarely do have to spank my child so I'm not one that thinks spanking is the Only answer and has to be done for every little infraction for lack of a better term. I was spanked growing up and don't have any ptsd or other issues and I have nothing but love and respect for both of my parents.


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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

If you ever decide that beating your kid is not working out for you and are looking for some help with turning it around, check back here.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

In the scenario you describe with the video game, I wouldn't do anything because I don't think having emotions warrants punishment. If the child expressed anger in a potentially destructive way then I would address that, not the anger. I would tell them that they couldn't damage the game console (for example) but that they could stamp their feet or thump a cushion or something. I would also empathise with their frustration .

If my children use an unpleasant voice with me, whether it is a scream or a whine or a rude demand I remind them that we don't speak like that and offer them a retry. If they decline that offer :lol I suggest that they need some quiet time either with me it on their own to calm down. If screaming persisted at that point I would remove myself from the situation until they could speak nicely. Unless I could see that they needed my help to recentre themselves, in which case I would deal with that. I can tell with DD1 when she's just being a 4yo and pushing boundaries and when she is overwhelmed and needs help to wrestle with big feelings.

If you are interested in a different way, I like www.ahaparenting.com

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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

I basically agree with you katelove. If my kid merely got mad at a video game I would do nothing in response to stop that specific behavior and give the kid a chance to learn self-regulation on his own. If he evidenced better control in any situation I would give him positive feedback for that.

Jbuck2013 tried to stop something not worth stopping, and he set off a pattern called the Patterson Coercive Cycle. This coercive cycle and ways to avoid it were discovered almost 50 years ago, probably before Jbuck2013 was born.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

muddie said:


> If you ever decide that beating your kid is not working out for you and are looking for some help with turning it around, check back here.


As I stated before, I don't judge you so I would appreciate the same respect. I don't "beat" my child although your type thinks any touching other than petting is beating and that's fine because I know better. I Doubt I will be asking for Your help.As a matter of fact I have an Amazing child that is very well behaved and has great manners. And I very rarely have to "beat" him as you like to put it. I find it amusing almost that your kind judges me for my parenting ways although I'm not the one on here complaining that my child is horrible, hits me, throws things, is disrespectful and I just don't know what to do because the "time outs" and psycho babble letting him explore his feelings isn't working.So when you decide however you parent isn't working out for you, maybe you could contact me for some pointers because I have a happy, healthy, smart, loving, respectful, amazing kid.

Now what I said was probably out of line but so were you. So if you can't say anything nice, how about just not responding and don't expect me to play nice back. Thanks for playing!


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

katelove said:


> In the scenario you describe with the video game, I wouldn't do anything because I don't think having emotions warrants punishment. If the child expressed anger in a potentially destructive way then I would address that, not the anger. I would tell them that they couldn't damage the game console (for example) but that they could stamp their feet or thump a cushion or something. I would also empathise with their frustration .
> 
> If my children use an unpleasant voice with me, whether it is a scream or a whine or a rude demand I remind them that we don't speak like that and offer them a retry. If they decline that offer :lol I suggest that they need some quiet time either with me it on their own to calm down. If screaming persisted at that point I would remove myself from the situation until they could speak nicely. Unless I could see that they needed my help to recentre themselves, in which case I would deal with that. I can tell with DD1 when she's just being a 4yo and pushing boundaries and when she is overwhelmed and needs help to wrestle with big feelings.
> 
> ...


Thank you Katelove for actually offering an explanation and a good one at that and not judging me for my parenting style. I do appreciate it. As I stated before, I do several different "styles" if you will. I don't think All of one style works, not for us anyway. I would say the few times I have spanked my son, maybe Half of those times it actually inflicted pain. He is more concerned that he disappointed me. Regardless how he is disciplined, I always talk to him after we have both had time to regroup about what happened, why and what we can do to change it etc. He knows his feelings are very much important, but he also understands boundries and of course as any kid still pushes them sometimes :lol, but he knows the "look" or the "voice" as he calls it and backs up pretty quick. I think each child is different, or rather I Know each child is different so I think different things work for each. My husband and I May have a baby together and our views are a little different on discipline. He was raised very "old school" and raised to believe spanking was the answer for everything and there was no way around it. He used that method for his son whom he raised on his own and had not so great circumstances. His son is almost 20 now. Anyway, he use to tell me I needed to spank DS more but then the more he saw how I dealt with him, I think he realized there really are other ways to dealing with kids and that each one truly is different. I think the fact that he and I were both single parents for the most part and did pretty much everything on our own with our kids vs us doing it Together this time will make a HUGE difference all around. Anyway, not to ramble, but just a little background and reasoning as to why I came here in the first place. Thanks again for being kind and not judgmental


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

muddie said:


> I basically agree with you katelove. If my kid merely got mad at a video game I would do nothing in response to stop that specific behavior and give the kid a chance to learn self-regulation on his own. If he evidenced better control in any situation I would give him positive feedback for that.
> 
> Jbuck2013 tried to stop something not worth stopping, and he set off a pattern called the Patterson Coercive Cycle. This coercive cycle and ways to avoid it were discovered almost 50 years ago, probably before Jbuck2013 was born.


He didn't merely get mad, he Screamed and me and was Very disrespectful. To me and many other responsible parents, stopping that kind of behavior is definitely worth stopping. Don't know if you caught that part or you still don't think that was a valid reason, if not, I would hate to see how you allow your kids to talk to you and act. Self regulation? I think sometimes people expect too much from their kids. Yes they can be very smart, but they are still KIDS and learning and it's our job to help them and teach them, not just let them "self learn" everything. I am a firm believer that if you don't teach consequences at a young age, that is when you end up with criminals, deadbeats that won't work and live off the government. My husband and I especially see it EVERY day in our line of work. So I'm not just some sheltered idiot that has no clue what I am talking about. Just for the record :wink:


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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

Jbuck2013 said:


> He didn't merely get mad, he Screamed and me and was Very disrespectful. To me and many other responsible parents, stopping that kind of behavior is definitely worth stopping. Don't know if you caught that part or you still don't think that was a valid reason, if not, I would hate to see how you allow your kids to talk to you and act. Self regulation? I think sometimes people expect too much from their kids. Yes they can be very smart, but they are still KIDS and learning and it's our job to help them and teach them, not just let them "self learn" everything. I am a firm believer that if you don't teach consequences at a young age, that is when you end up with criminals, deadbeats that won't work and live off the government. My husband and I especially see it EVERY day in our line of work. So I'm not just some sheltered idiot that has no clue what I am talking about. Just for the record :wink:


At first, he got mad at a video game right? So, you initial goal was to somehow encourage him to not get mad at games, foster his maturity, right? But you took action that got the coercive cycle going with evolved into a yelling match with your kid. And say that you think that you taught him not to not yell at you by spanking him.

Actually, you most likely unwittingly taught him to yell at you in the past. Also, *you completely lost track of your original goal* which was to teach him self-control with respect to frustrations like those that can arise from a video game.


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## luckiest (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm not sure I'm understanding the point of this thread - OP, are you looking for alternatives to spanking? If so, I'm sure myself and lots of others could offer lots of suggestions. You have asked for parents to explain why they don't spank, and on a forum dedicated specifically to gentle parenting, so of course you will get some passionate responses. Asking a bunch of parents who have chosen other methods to explain themselves, then defending your own very different methods, just seems like stirring the pot to me and is at best unproductive. 

Was there something that prompted you to make your post? Is there a more specific question you had about gentle parenting or how to resolve conflict without corporal punishment?

Here are some of my favorite book titles about gentle parenting -

Peaceful Parents, Happy Children
Unconditional Parenting
Playful Parenting
Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves

My siblings and I were raised in a non-punitive household. Never yelled at, put in time out, grounded. All five of us are well adjusted, successful and happy adults. My 4yo has never been punished except for some parentally imposed logical consequences, and I get regular positive comments from strangers about his behavior, especially about how well he plays with other kids. 


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I think you could take how your husband felt about your discipline methods and then apply that to how you see many of us. In other words, he thought that discipline could not be effective unless you spanked a lot, but you showed him you could use other methods effectively. I think you can take that one step farther and eliminate the spanking altogether. It's ironic that you seem to assume that because we don't spank we must be permitting bad behavior when that's exactly what you were trying to show your husband. I do not permit bad behavior and nor do I spank.

I believe that any number of discipline methods can be effective if applied consistently. I think spanking "works" because it imposes fear in the child (not so good in my opinion) and because it is generally a swift, obvious response to a child overstepping a boundary. With some forethought and creative thinking you can provide the second part in other ways. 

In the video game example, I also would have ignored the behavior. Not the part where he screamed at you - the part before that where he was fussing at the game. To me that would have worked itself out. 

But of course sometimes when I do impose consequences my daughter gets mad and screams and sometimes even hits. I find that I can predict these times because they're not a simple response to the consequence. It's more similar to how a parent will snap and yell at a kid for something innocuous because it's just the straw that broke the camel's back that day. My DD balks against consequences on days where I've been too busy for her, when she's had a lot of denials from me, when I've been nitpicking her. At that point, I believe you're absolutely right that it would be too much to expect self-regulation at her age. But why discipline something you don't believe the child can control? So if the response to a consequence is just a loud, rude expression of anger, I turn away and calmly go about my day. If there's destructive or aggressive behavior she goes right to her room. I don't argue about it or engage in discussion with her. And the behavior stops quite quickly. On the rare occasions that it doesn't stop quickly I assume she's overwhelmed and actually encourage her to let it out and cry. That usually solves the problem. 

Anyway, I guess my point is that many parents spank when they're at the end of their rope with their kid. So why are they getting to the end of their rope at all if their discipline is so effective? I believe that it's lack of consistent focus on a child's behavior that compounds the problems.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

muddie said:


> At first, he got mad at a video game right? So, you initial goal was to somehow encourage him to not get mad at games, foster his maturity, right? But you took action that got the coercive cycle going with evolved into a yelling match with your kid. And say that you think that you taught him not to not yell at you by spanking him.
> 
> Actually, you most likely unwittingly taught him to yell at you in the past. Also, *you completely lost track of your original goal* which was to teach him self-control with respect to frustrations like those that can arise from a video game.


I didn't get into a yelling match.I never raised my voice, he screamed, I spanked him and sent him to his room for a little bit. I'm not sure how one could teach their kid to yell at you unless you allow it to happen in the past, which has not. That is the first and Only time it has happened. But I guess the discipline he got for it didn't have anything to do with it ??


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

newmamalizzy said:


> I think you could take how your husband felt about your discipline methods and then apply that to how you see many of us. In other words, he thought that discipline could not be effective unless you spanked a lot, but you showed him you could use other methods effectively. I think you can take that one step farther and eliminate the spanking altogether. It's ironic that you seem to assume that because we don't spank we must be permitting bad behavior when that's exactly what you were trying to show your husband. I do not permit bad behavior and nor do I spank.
> 
> I believe that any number of discipline methods can be effective if applied consistently. I think spanking "works" because it imposes fear in the child (not so good in my opinion) and because it is generally a swift, obvious response to a child overstepping a boundary. With some forethought and creative thinking you can provide the second part in other ways.
> 
> ...


You also have good points, and again let me point out that I don't group YOU ALL into the same category. I guess I just get defensive and it irks me when I hold my tongue and don't downgrade someone elses way of parenting but then those same people don't show the same respect. I could have ignored my son's outburst. However, without giving any attention, whether good or bad, that would have shown him it's ok to act that way and disrespect me or anyone else which is exactly what that was. And that is Not ok! I personally think ignoring something like that is counterproductive and can encourage that behavior just as much as saying "it's ok to scream at me because you are mad". Nope! I can't tell you how many times I get calls ( I'm a 911 dispatcher and my husband a police officer) from parents who cannot control their kids because they have tried Everything besides spanking and want the police to deal with them now. These calls range from kids age 4-17, no joke! I feel like allowing disrespectful behavior, whether it be encouraging it or ignoring it, only sets you up for bigger problems later that are so much harder to get a handle on by that point. Can I ask how you deal with your daughter screaming and especially hitting ? And why do you not think spanking at all works? Honest question, not being snarky. It obviously works for some kids and like I said before, not all of us have ptsd or issues from being spanked as a child. And yes I do believe there is a difference in Beating your child and spanking/swatting your child. Thus why it really irks me when someone says I Beat my child because I do not.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

luckiest said:


> I'm not sure I'm understanding the point of this thread - OP, are you looking for alternatives to spanking? If so, I'm sure myself and lots of others could offer lots of suggestions. You have asked for parents to explain why they don't spank, and on a forum dedicated specifically to gentle parenting, so of course you will get some passionate responses. Asking a bunch of parents who have chosen other methods to explain themselves, then defending your own very different methods, just seems like stirring the pot to me and is at best unproductive.
> 
> Was there something that prompted you to make your post? Is there a more specific question you had about gentle parenting or how to resolve conflict without corporal punishment?
> 
> ...


Because I have read so many posts about parents that practice "gentle discipline" and SO many are having So many issues with their childs behavior. Hitting, biting, yelling etc., which to me is unacceptable and setting your child up to be a disrespectful adult. I Totally understand passionate responses and that's ok. However, people being judgemental and saying if beating my kid doesn't work anymore to come back here, is just someone trying to make themselves feel holier than thou and quite frankly pisses me off. Anyway, back to your original question. No I am not trying to stir the pot, I am on a forum of people who talk amongst themselves about parenting, sooo, I truly wanted to inquire about how other people do things. I couldn't ask for a better kid, so I'm not on here begging for advice on what to do with my out of control kid. Just a discussion that I Tried to start out as being just that, even a debate is fine, but accusations don't sit well with me. I don't get on here and say I think you are neglecting your kid for allowing them to be brats and do what they want. Which is Not what I think about you all as a whole, but what a lot of people I know or my family would say. Just pointing out I give respect so I don't feel like it's too much to ask the same in return. It's the same concept as vaccinating or not. Idk if that all made sense but I tried lol.


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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

Jbuck2013 said:


> I didn't get into a yelling match.I never raised my voice, he screamed, I spanked him and sent him to his room for a little bit. I'm not sure how one could teach their kid to yell at you unless you allow it to happen in the past, which has not. That is the first and Only time it has happened. But I guess the discipline he got for it didn't have anything to do with it ??


A typical way parents unwittingly teach there kids to yell is to allow defiance to get the parent off track from parent's original intentions. The kid's defiance is reinforced by the repeated instances where it serves to get the parent off track. If the parent consistently follows through in the face of defiance then defiance never pays off. That's not to say that a parent should never change course, but changing course in reaction to defiance can be counterproductive.


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

Ok muddie, call me ignorant, or maybe just sleep deprived, but u lost me on that one lol. Care to explain in dumb person terms  . Please ...


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## muddie (Nov 10, 2014)

Jbuck2013 said:


> Ok muddie, call me ignorant, or maybe just sleep deprived, but u lost me on that one lol. Care to explain in dumb person terms  . Please ...


This is an example:



> Step 1: Mom scolds Toby. (Mom is an irritant to Toby)
> Step 2. Toby attempts to ignore Mom. (Toby attempts to extinguish scolding)
> Step 3. Mom increases scolding. (First trial extinction leads to escalation of
> scolding, which is also punishing to Toby.)
> ...


http://www.pendletonpsych.com/doc/parent-child-coercive-cycle.pdf

This is a typical example of how moms can train their kids to argue or yell.


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## luckiest (Apr 29, 2009)

Jbuck2013 said:


> Because I have read so many posts about parents that practice "gentle discipline" and SO many are having So many issues with their childs behavior. Hitting, biting, yelling etc., which to me is unacceptable and setting your child up to be a disrespectful adult.


I think the reason you're seeing so many posts about parents who use gentle methods having behavioral issues, is that this is a forum specifically about gentle parenting, and the only people who are going to post are going to be people who need help or are having issues. You don't tend to hear from the people who are having success, so I guess I could see how one could scroll through this forum and get the impression that there are just loads of parents trying to use gentle methods and having problems. I don't believe that this is the case; you just are only seeing the times parents are having issues and not the times it's successful. I'll also reiterate what someone else said upstream - that gentle/non-punitive parenting is NOT at all permissive parenting.

But moving on -

In your scenario about getting frustrated with the video game, like others have said, that isn't something that would have warranted correction to me. If there were continuous outbursts directed at the game and it was getting irritating to me, then I would have asked for quiet. If he was destructive (threw the controller, etc), then I would stay calm, turn off the console, and give him space until the storm blew over and we could talk about what had happened. There is always a teaching moment in misbehavior - this one would be how to appropriately express frustration. Stomping feet is okay, throwing is not. Saying, "I'm so mad!" is okay, hitting is not. Learning how to express frustration is BIG, slow to develop skill, and the goal is to help kids learn how to express their emotions in a *healthy* way, not to stuff them down entirely. I don't think that swift, reactive punishment is effective in teaching kids how to manage their emotions.

I would guess that the reason your son screamed at you was that he was already in a state of extreme agitation from the game, and simply shifted that anger to you. Again - what needs to be taught is how to manage those extreme emotions. What is being taught when spanking is involved, is the lesson, "When you scream at me, I will hit you, so you better not scream." I don't want my kids to be frightened into not screaming; I want to help them find a better way to be angry.

I think what leads a lot of parents to gentle parenting methods is a fundamental difference in approach to parenting. When debates like this are started up, part of what makes it hard to talk about is that we're asking different questions. Most conventional parents practice some form of behaviorism - that is, using some system of rewards and punishments to either eliminate or encourage a certain behavior - and that is how they view discipline. The success or failure of their method is measured by how well it eliminates or produces a behavior.

Most gentle parents (although I'll start speaking for myself here), take a long view approach to parenting. The goal isn't necessarily to manipulate certain behaviors, but to grow a well-adjusted, emotionally literate, happy, self-motivated person with good relationship skills and a solid sense of judgment. I don't look at a misbehavior at face-value - I look for what skill is lacking that allowed that misbehavior to occur. I believe that kids WILL meet our expectations IF they are able, and if they aren't meeting our expectations, what is preventing them from doing so? Do they need help learning to express emotions in a healthier way? Do they need help navigating conflict with a peer? Do they need food, rest? Are they overstimulated? Do they need to decompress and just get some tears out? Do they need their cup filled in some way - play time with me or Dad, more connection? If you take a step back it's usually pretty easy to see the "why" behind a certain behavior, and I usually find that it wouldn't be helpful to punish a child for being tired, for acting their age, for having limited impulse control, for just not having been on this earth for long enough to know the ins and outs of our cultural expectations. I view my role as a parent as more of a mentor or teacher than a boss.

Another big issue for me with behaviorist approaches to parenting is that it hinders self-motivation. Children who are given rewards for good behavior and are punished for bad behavior are motivated externally - they want to know what's in it for them before they do something (like kids who are paid to do chores), or they avoid doing something because they're afraid of the punishment that might come (like the kid the other day at the park who accidentally knocked another kid down, and ran away to hide from his parent rather than helping the other kid up).

I think that kindness teaches kindness, that peace teaches peace, that grace teaches grace, that acceptance teaches acceptance, that respect teaches respect. I think that kids are inherently good and are always acting their best at any given time.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

When my daughter is rude or hits and I ignore it I'm not ignoring the behavior itself at all. I am deliberately withdrawing attention in the moment of fervor. If there's hitting or throwing she goes to her room for a few minutes. The withdrawal of attention IS the consequence. I will often sit quietly by, or do some quiet tidying, etc. 

In that moment of calm (for myself) I analyze the situation and make a plan for teaching better responses in the future. I ask myself what would have been an appropriate way for her to express herself in that moment and why couldn't she do it? When she is calm we address what happened and I reiterate the rules. We talk about what she can do the next time and practice. I try to keep the same rules as I give her and I "impose consequences" on myself so she can see self control in action.

My daughter has always been "high needs." She's tends to be defiant, emotional, and frankly kind of a grump. It's a tricky temperament to deal with, but I absolutely do not feel out of control with her because her behavioral issues are absolutely always addressed in some way, be it consequences or lessons. And it works. She is still grumpy and emotional, but she knows the boundaries, accepts the consequences, and willingly participates in finding solutions to repeated problems. No 911 calls over here!


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## Jbuck2013 (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks ladies! You gave me what I asked for an it makes sense. I have never actually had it explained in detail like that. It also makes sense what you said luckiest, that most people post things when they are having issues. I appreciate you being honest and not flaming me for my choices. I apologize if I came across a little harsh but I was being defensive I suppose because I don't "beat" my child. I suppose some people's opinion's differ on the definition of it tho. I do appreciate the input and will definitely be looking into your methods etc. I am not the type that is black or white and only sides one way or the other. If it makes sense to me, then I will agree with it regardless.


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

Nice to hear your open spirit!

Yes people rarely post to a forum to say "things are going great in my life and with my child and I just thought I'd tell you all about it!!"

Everyone hits bumps in the road, especially at certain stages of the parenting journey. I can remember feeling great about my first baby--he nursed well, slept well, I felt o.k. I thought, what's the big deal, why is everyone complaining about life with an infant. Suddenly he hit a colicky spell for a few months. Life turned upside down. OH, this is what people are talking about! When he turned two things really shifted--he was very spirited and nothing like the two year olds I read about in books!! So we all come to this with different perspectives, needing different types of help. 

Dr. Brazelton wrote a book called Touchpoints--how children and parents go through sensitive periods together and how they can grow through it. Even if your child is not "spirited" there will be times when things go well in synch and other times when things feel really dysregulated for everyone. People come here at those times, even if they generally are finding a gentle (no spanking or hitting) lifestyle to work for them.

Gentle Discipline also doesn't mean No Limits or no guidance. It is a balancing act. Folks who are just committed to teaching their children without using hitting or spanking are here to learn together. 

Thanks for being with us.


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## MeltCandy88 (Jul 1, 2014)

LTurtle said:


> I think you may find more insight in the Gentle Discipline forum. My own views are fairly simple - I don't believe in using violence to solve problems (it doesn't) and I don't believe in hitting children. Spanking seems to be defined differently than hitting by those who use it, as if being traditional made it into something other than striking a child. It isn't.


Love it! Extremely well said


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