# Stillbirth and SIDS



## NullSet (Dec 19, 2004)

About a month ago the midwife at my OB office mentioned a theory she has heard. She told me that some people believe a baby can basically die of SIDS while in the womb. Normally I would search online to see what others say but I have had issues with anxiety and don't really want to get myself riled up just in case. For some reason reading opinions and posts here doesn't bother me at all, not sure why. I've been thinking of this a lot lately, especially with the matter in which my dd died. Her movements were great the previous days and even that evening. Then while I was sleeping, her heart stopped and she was gone by morning. Never really found out why.

So has anyone else heard this theory and what do you think of it?


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## namaste_mom (Oct 21, 2005)

Amy,

That is an interesting thought to me. In fact, I think that what she said is true. I've been in contact with SIDS mommies also and how they relate how their babies have died, well, I feel like that is how Norah died too. There were no indications that anything was wrong, her movements were great, and then her heart stopped beating. No one could figure out what went wrong. So, I equate stillbirths where no cause is determined to the death of SIDS babies. This gives me some comfort because SIDS is rarer than having a stillbirth. But, then again, still I worry.
Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## Kim&Brooke (May 16, 2007)

There are a great many people who believe in this theory of SADS (sudden antenatal death syndrome). I agree with it personally, it makes sense to me. We may never know what causes SIDS/SADS but I have hope.
While my son died of T18, I have met a lot of women who lost their babies with no explanation. A large percentage of babies pass away and are stillborn with no physical findings that explain it. SADS is a real possibility in my mind.


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## Cuddlebaby (Jan 14, 2003)

we fall into that category as well. I've seen SADS referred to in the searches I've done. Micah stopped moving a day or two before he was born. heart just stopped and no one knows why. I don't have anything to offer you though. except one day we will all know.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

This was the only explanation I could be given too. Sometimes we just do not know why babies pass away, either by SIDS or Stillbirth. Much more research must be done.


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## jessicasocean (Mar 21, 2008)

I have heard of this as well. I thought that is how my darling son died, until I recieved a copy of his pathology reports. I am so sorry for all your losses mamas. It must be really hard to have no explanations.


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## bluewatergirl (Jul 26, 2007)

Amy,
Have you ever looked at the National Stillbirth Society's website?
There is info there about SADS (which is different than SIDS)
and links to other articles and sites.

I did a lot of reading/research & talking to doctors after J.T. died.
We were "lucky" in that we know what caused his death because
his cord was so tightly wrapped 3X around his legs that it stayed
that way as I delivered vaginally.

I think it is believed that many unexplained sudden antenatal deaths,
where the baby is "normal" can probably be attributed to cord compression.
Basically, near or at full-term, the baby is bigger/heavier and there
is decreased amniotic fluid (the fluid volume peaks at about 32 weeks);
occasionally, the cord gets in the wrong place/position and is compressed.

I have talked at length with Dr. Jason Collins, who has researched
cord accidents, and has followed mothers as they were PAL.
He is very passionate about his theories.
He totally advocates "kicks counts" as well as proposing that there
are other risk factors (like cord length and placental placement)
and signs/symptoms that Moms should watch out for that
might be warning signs of potential fetal distress.
I do believe in his research & theories about SADS/cord issues,
because in hindsight, I experienced things with J.T. that might have
worried me had I known then what I know now.
Unfortunately, there is just not enough extensive research out there or
one central database in which statistics are collected and followed.

Sorry if this comes off like a rant







. . . I am just so passionate about
this issue.


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## NullSet (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kim&Brooke* 
There are a great many people who believe in this theory of SADS (sudden antenatal death syndrome). I agree with it personally, it makes sense to me. We may never know what causes SIDS/SADS but I have hope.

Wow, I never even knew there was a name for it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluewatergirl* 
Amy,
Have you ever looked at the National Stillbirth Society's website?
There is info there about SADS (which is different than SIDS)
and links to other articles and sites.

I've never seen their website but I will have to check it out. I haven't done the amount of research I would like to do on this subject. I just wish it didn't stress me out so much!

Thanks for all the info.


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## gratefulbambina (Mar 20, 2005)

I had never heard this theory and it sounds very interesting to me. I regret not having an autopsy for Francis. I feel that we would not of received an answer, but what if we would have.

I'm going to look into this when I can. I have been feeling so raw lately emotionally Im not doing well at all


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## Cuddlebaby (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina* 
I had never heard this theory and it sounds very interesting to me. I regret not having an autopsy for Francis. I feel that we would not of received an answer, but what if we would have.

I'm going to look into this when I can. I have been feeling so raw lately emotionally Im not doing well at all









HUGE HUGE hugs sweetie!!

Rebecca


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## NullSet (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gratefulbambina* 
I had never heard this theory and it sounds very interesting to me. I regret not having an autopsy for Francis. I feel that we would not of received an answer, but what if we would have.

I'm going to look into this when I can. I have been feeling so raw lately emotionally Im not doing well at all









I never had an autopsy for Calliope either.








Sometimes I think I should have, but in reality I don't regret it at all. I just couldn't do it at the time. And I knew that usually in the case of a fullterm stillbirth, the reasons aren't likely to repeat. At least that is what I had learned previous. Maybe if I did some more research I would feel differently now?









And don't push yourself into researching before you are ready. I had some difficulties with that a couple months afterwards. I pushed myself and ended up having some kind of anxiety/stress-related crap that had me in the ER. I think my body just wasn't ready for the information. Take your time.


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## Dalene (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *apecaut* 
I never had an autopsy for Calliope either.







Sometimes I think I should have, but in reality I don't regret it at all. I just couldn't do it at the time. And I knew that usually in the case of a fullterm stillbirth, the reasons aren't likely to repeat. At least that is what I had learned previous. Maybe if I did some more research I would feel differently now?









And don't push yourself into researching before you are ready. I had some difficulties with that a couple months afterwards. I pushed myself and ended up having some kind of anxiety/stress-related crap that had me in the ER. I think my body just wasn't ready for the information. Take your time.









Since it didn't make any sense that Baker's lungs couldn't be inflated when he was born, we were encouraged by the neonatologist to have an autopsy. Although it now looks like his cord may have been compressed during labor, and that is the only likely cause of his death, the autopsy did show that his lungs were underdeveloped. So I guess I'm glad we had the autopsy done--we now know of things to watch out for in a future pregnancy--but it doesn't bring him back. I have a copy of the autopsy report. I have glanced at it, but am making myself let some time go by before I read it in full. It is just too upsetting right now. I should definitely give myself more time before I delve forward into researching.


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## Samaria86 (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *apecaut* 
I never had an autopsy for Calliope either.







Sometimes I think I should have, *but in reality I don't regret it at all*. I just couldn't do it at the time. And I knew that usually in the case of a fullterm stillbirth, the reasons aren't likely to repeat. At least that is what I had learned previous. Maybe if I did some more research I would feel differently now?









And don't push yourself into researching before you are ready. I had some difficulties with that a couple months afterwards. I pushed myself and ended up having some kind of anxiety/stress-related crap that had me in the ER. I think my body just wasn't ready for the information. Take your time.









I dont regret my decision to not get a autopsy either. IDK if it would have told me anything first off it's possible it would ad possible it wouldn't.


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## fuel1316 (May 22, 2008)

i dont have any kids and ive just had my first m/c so myabe im just not understanding how pregnancy and child birth works but isnt sids death due to a child not breathing? if they were in womb thier lungs are filled with fluids and they dont breath with them until thier born right? if im wrong please correct me again im no expert and dont even have bith or motherly experience that is just what ive picked up so far


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I think the critical question in SIDS is WHY did they stop breathing? Maybe they died from something else... which could easily happen in the womb as well.


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## yeahwhat (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuel1316* 
i dont have any kids and ive just had my first m/c so myabe im just not understanding how pregnancy and child birth works but isnt sids death due to a child not breathing? if they were in womb thier lungs are filled with fluids and they dont breath with them until thier born right? if im wrong please correct me again im no expert and dont even have bith or motherly experience that is just what ive picked up so far

Well, some researchers think that something goes on in the brain that causes the baby to stop breathing rather than the brain stopping because the baby stops breathing. Does that make sense? If sids and sads are linked it could be due to something happening with the brain/brain stem of the baby that we don't yet understand.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yeahwhat* 
Well, some researchers think that something goes on in the brain that causes the baby to stop breathing rather than the brain stopping because the baby stops breathing. Does that make sense? If sids and sads are linked it could be due to something happening with the brain/brain stem of the baby that we don't yet understand.

Yes this is true. So much we do not know. An autopsy is automatic in a SIDS baby whereas in stillbirth, it is not. Now, do I think everyone should choose an autopsy, NO I DO NOT! That said, I do believe in access to all. I had wanted a autopsy, but was clearly denied one & told we would have to pay out of pocket for a private one. We could hardly afford to bury our daughter let alone pay for an autopsy. This is why I support the new stillbirth bill, for more funding & access to research.


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## fuel1316 (May 22, 2008)

ok so it doesnt involve the lungs just not infating its the brain stopping the intake of oxygen?


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## Samaria86 (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Debstmomy* 
Yes this is true. So much we do not know. An autopsy is automatic in a SIDS baby whereas in stillbirth, it is not. Now, do I think everyone should choose an autopsy, NO I DO NOT! That said, I do believe in access to all. I had wanted a autopsy, but was clearly denied one & *told we would have to pay out of pocket for a private one*. We could hardly afford to bury our daughter let alone pay for an autopsy. This is why I support the new stillbirth bill, for more funding & access to research.


This is another thing that swayed my decision. I would have had to pay for it. MAYBE, just maybe if we had acess to one I may have done it. But We had to pay for her funeral, had to pay to bury her, and pay to travel. There was no way I could have paid for an autopsy. We're still paying for her funeral.


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## fuel1316 (May 22, 2008)

i thought the state did an autopsy no matter what as long as you were under the age of like 65 (not sure of hte age) they made that point to us when my father died. we knew how he died but they said under a certain age they are required. i didnt know you had to pay for it! thats not cool. if someone dies for no obvious reason you would think medically they would want to figure it out


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## Kim&Brooke (May 16, 2007)

To those of you who couldnt afford an autopsy - I am so sorry. I wish that the US handled stillbirth better. In Australia we have free healthcare, we didnt have to pay for anything, including the autopsy. And we get a bereavement payment from the government to cover the funeral costs. I wish there was more I could do for you all.

If you go to my blog, I have posted a letter from First Candle about the new Stillbirth Bill in the US. Please go there, and write in supporting it.


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## Samaria86 (Jan 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuel1316* 
i thought the state did an autopsy no matter what as long as you were under the age of like 65 (not sure of hte age) they made that point to us when my father died. we knew how he died but they said under a certain age they are required. i didnt know you had to pay for it! thats not cool. if someone dies for no obvious reason you would think medically they would want to figure it out


I thought so too, but the nurses made it quick to be known you will be paying for this. I believed I asked like three times.


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## fuel1316 (May 22, 2008)

oh jees im sorry i didnt know that they treated this kind of situation so terribley. i dont like dealing with the hospital at all after my father died. they brought him in by ambulance and after like 30 minutes the churchy guy (sorry i forget what they call him) came out and said lets pray for your father in heaven and my mom and i were like WHAT? no dr ever came out and told us he died or anything and this guy talk to us like we already knew so i dont like the way hospitals handle things and if i went through a situation like yours i would make it my duty to go around, above, below that person. what ever i have to do to make sure they were correct and not just an idiot.

maybe the autopsy thing is different by state? im not sure but i am very sure they told us they do it on ANY one under like senior age. i would hope that includes full term babies. this whole thing is very upsetting.


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## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

fuel you are right, anyone under 65 who dies w/out a "medical" reason will get an autopsy. But remember, our stillborn babies, were not born. Just a death cert, not a birth cert....so they were never alive, so no automatic autopsy, like in SIDS. Which is so wrong...we lose many more babies to stillbirth than to SIDS. It all has to do with $$$ & politics.


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## fuel1316 (May 22, 2008)

wait, what?? they were born! you birthed them! thats stupid! so they dont recognize that a baby was alive for 40 weeks? scott peterson got convicted for killing his unborn baby so they must cosider it a alive and a person so do they not give you a birth cert??? the laws are so stupid and contadicting i swear! im sorry all you ladies have to deal with that. its like a slap in the face.


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