# Bubble Wrap Generation



## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

This is what I keep calling it in my head.

I find this phenomenon so interesting, and saddening. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts about it. What have you seen, and what are your boundaries for your own kids. Maybe I'm completely off base here and I'm the one who's out of line (which may totally be the case since I seem to be in the minority everywhere I go!)

We were at a fun, new playground this weekend and every parent there was completely micromanaging their kids' play and following them around with a steady patter of "be careful! watch out! don't run! don't touch the mulch, it's dirty! oh, you want to climb, no, that's too high! don't push the swings with no one on it, it's only for kids to swing on! OMG DON'T GO NEAR THAT WATER! (one inch deep stream in the middle of the park) no, no, no no, and no" and on and on and on. Seriously, I couldn't figure out what _would_ be ok to do.

One little boy came up and patted my baby's head in a totally normal way and the parents FREAKED out, yelling at him that he was NOT GENTLE, we never TOUCH PEOPLE- I played dumb and was like, what's the problem here? and they went on about him being a boy and not knowing how to play nice. I felt so bad for the little boy getting yelled at when he was being friendly and I didn't mind him coming to see my baby at all. I mean, wouldn't one rather have them stand there and be sure he is being gentle and show him how to touch nicely rather just just drag him away and act like he's bad







One dad was following a little girl around, I'd guess ~2 1/2 yrs old, nonstop telling her to slow down, be careful, every single thing she did he was giving directions, and "helping". She wasn't allowed to run outside because she might fall (then when CAN kids run???)

These were kids of all ages, and I run into this at parks and in playgroups and at kids' classes and just about everywhere with all types of people. So it's not like it's an isolated occurance or certain "type" of people. I left feeling exhausted by listening to it, and frustrated on behalf of the kids, and wondering what are the long term effects of kids not getting to direct their play, or play freely without constant adult interference.

I totally get that I may not know the whole story- some kids may have special needs, or parents know what kind of help their kids need, or that they perhaps have gotten really hurt in the past doing certain activities so may need an extra warning. I get it. people may see me at times cautioning my kids or getting upset about something they may not understand, because I know their past history and others looking in may not.

But I let my kids play, freely, running, jumping, climbing, getting dirty, testing their limits, trying new things, and let them be creative and lead the play and am there to help if they need it. Sometimes in the process of that, if they get a bump or bruise or cut or muddy clothes or wet shoes in the course of playing or learning, that's fine, and it's part of life. Obviously if they are going to do something truly dangerous or harm someone else I redirect them. I'm a huge safety stickler, even to the point of serious anxiety- as far as things that could truly injure them or be deadly, like carseats, staying within eyesight, crossing streets, water safety, etc. But I teach them how to use knives, scissors, tools, at an early age, I don't prevent them from using those things because they're "dangerous".

So I'm just wondering if you know of any articles or other online discussions on this, or what are the long term consequences as this generation of kids becomes teens and adults. Or maybe I'm just nuts and that is normal parenting and my kids are just wild and dirty.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Check out http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/

Me, I'm too lazy to do all that micromanaging. Even my 18 month old doesn't get managed that much. I do tend to move him, since everything at the playground is too big for him to get on by himself.


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## echospiritwarrior (Jun 1, 2006)

I haven't read anything about this but I have to agree to an extent. I also let my children use knives/scissors etc. and in fact I'm pretty exhausted at other parents anxiety over my children climbing things like jungle gyms (isn't that what playgrounds are for?)

The only place I don't see so much of this sort of thing is at our home school play groups









I *am* one of these parents when my younger daughter (not quite three) wants to play in the shallow part of the river without a flotation device, but she can't swim yet and I think that's a pretty good time to trail your kid!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I see this all the time lately. It bugs me too.

I have an in home daycare. In my playroom, I have a jungle gym/slide thing that is about 4 1/2 feet tall. A three year old who had been climbing it for almost two years stood up on it (it has side rails) And her dad FREAKED out. He lunged for her to stop her from falling.

I looked at him like he was insane I think. I said, She can do backflips off of that thing, and has been scaling it in every possible way for two years. She's fine. I promise. But, he stood there with his hands behind her waiting for her body to hurl it'self off the side.

I have my weird fears though. Mine is stairs. I was always positive that my daughter would fall down the stairs. It was almost an obsession.

On the other hand, some parents use absolutely no common sense. I saw a girl (three-ish) standing on the wall of Glen Canyon dam. NO protection, NO adults holding her, and it's over 700 feet to the bottom. An elderly man pulled her down and yelled at her for making him old. LOL Her parents were shocked that anybody would be upset by that.

I encourage climbing, jumping, and other things that COULD hurt, but I stop behaviors that could cause actual injury.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I hear about this A LOT, but I can't say I've ever witnessed it. If anything, i wish people would pay more attention to their kids at the playground, instead of nonchalantly chatting with their friends while standing right nextto their 6ish looking year old throwing woodchips at my 18mo and taunting him (as happened today). Overall, I see a lot more kids who could use a bit more supervision.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Well, you only saw one part of it. Could be the parents had a really bad day or something traumatizing happened to make that trip stressful. Like, people probably think I'm an overbearing nut when we're near water. But seeing how I had a near drowning experience while holding my firstborn and pg with #2, drowning is the leading cause of death in males in my family, my two oldest almost drowned last year at a birthday party, I feel justified in being a total neurotic mess near bodies of water and insisting on safe play, holding hands, and no messing around.

Other than that, I'm usually laid back.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

My toddler still doesn't have the best balance, and can easily climb up but not down. More than once I've literally caught him as he started to tumble backwards or fall headfirst off a four-foot-high ledge on the playground.

It might look like micromanaging to some parents, but I know his limits and how to keep him safe during play. I do encourage him to run, explore, get dirty, etc. but other parents might have different boundaries for their children, and that's okay too. They're not my kids, so I try not to worry about it.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I tend to see extremes here depending on the park. The park in the nice neighborhoods tend to have a lot of parents shadowing their kids and some neurotic parents blended in with the rest of us. That isn't to say that it isn't something that happens at all parks, but it seems like it is more likely to happen in the parks with nicer houses around. My dd invites kids to play with her and says hit to them at the park and she has been asked by several parents at our usual park if she knows their kid. It is frustrating to take my dd to a park where it is suppossed to be safe enough for kids to play with friends without interference only to have her quizzed like a possible child abuser. We tend to hang out more at the parks that aren't in the higher end neighborhoods lately because it is a problem that is getting worse rather than better.


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## NightOwlwithowlet (Jun 13, 2009)

I work in an ER and ICU. I see what can and does happen. My urge is to micro manage my 8 yo, I do my best not to do it. When he was three and had NO sense of fear or danger, I'm sure I appeared like one of those parents. But, once he developed age appropriate caution, I backed off.

Recently, I've had people with same age children (7 to 8 yo) question the following;

allowing DS to use a single stall bathroom alone in a public place
to play in the stream (knee deep) without life jacket
play outside in the yard with his friend in a safe and nosy neighborhood
jump feet first into deep water (he can swim well and not head first) with adequate supervision
go down slides at the water park
go on roller coasters
to play out of my line of sight with his cousin in the woods near my dad's house within ear shot

Seriously?


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i am not up with all the terms but isnt this what helicopter parents are all about.

i see these parents around too. it makes me smile because i see for most of them its their first child. i see it mostly with dads than moms. with us too i am the laid back mom and ex is the OMG father.

however on the other hand the other side bugs me too. those who completely ignore their kids.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

It also totally depends on the kid. My DD has always been veeeery cautious. You know that mom that everyone makes fun of because she's saying "Good sliding honey! Yay! You did great on the slide! Ooh the slide is so fun!!!"? That was me, for about a year. Because I wanted to encourage her to actually go down it... or, at least go down it not inching down on her tummy holding onto the sides for dear life! And this was the little toddler slide that came up to about my shoulder. On the other hand, this extreme caution means that I've never worried about her. She climbs very high structures and other parents are like "Um, you know your DD is all the way up there?" and I get to be neglectomommy and say "Oh, yeah. She's fine." Because she is.

My son only just started walking, so I don't really know how much of a daredevil he is. However, he's still a pretty new walker, and he falls a lot. So even though he looks old enough to do a fair amount on his own, yes I do shadow him closely when he's climbing or up high. Especially since he just wants to follow his sister and she's wiggling up the tallest structure. I already know that he's not as extremely cautious as his sister, but I don't know how much I can trust him yet not to jump off the 10' climbing structure if he gets up there. If it turns out that he is a little stuntman, then I'm not going to keep him from exploring and climbing... but I will be shadowing him closely until I know that I can trust him.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

It takes me time to get comfy with a new feat my kid can do, so at first I followed her around a lot, but she wasn't great at climbing and was timid so I worried she'd back off of a structure if another kid got in her face. But we're talking baby/toddler time, and I think that's reasonable. Then when she recently got great at ladders, I stayed close while she was learning (at first she needed help), and now I mostly let her at it, unless she's doing the endless curvy one, because sometimes she still needs help coming back down if she goes up the curve (she's 3 and still a tad timid). It takes time I think for new parents to get used to the idea of wilder play-- but the AP playgroup with kids exploring the muddy creek, climbing trees and jumping down with ropes and whizzing about on bikes helped me









I agree, there are parents who just immediately shut down their kids, from types of playing or interacting. I guess some days you might have already changed clothes and really not want kiddo going in the stream, that's okay. But I get a lot of parents grabbing their kids away instead of ever letting them interact (unless... that's just me? I don't think I look scary,







). Then there are the parents who never stop their kids from throwing sand on mine over and over. But I think I've seen a nice majority in the middle. It would be exhausting and disheartening to see the bubble wrap type all the time!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I was probably one of these parents for about a year. DS is tall and big and strong for his age, and a bit of a daredevil, so when he was one, he had the strength and speed of a two-year-old but the judgment of a one-year-old. I aged 10 years that year. So it would have looked as though I was ridiculously shadowing a two-year-old, but I was actually trying to keep a giant one-year-old from leaping to his doom.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

oh i have to add this. i just remembered.

with my dd you HAD to stay at least 2 feet away from her. she could not stand hovering. so when she was first crawling up the stairs at 10 months i would be at least 4 or 5 steps below all ready to catch her. if i got any closer she would turn and look and frown at me. and trip. she has never, ever fallen or even tripped on the stairs when i was around, as long as i maintained the distance. but her dad just ignored her looks and was always one step behind her. she always tripped or fell when he was around.

i noticed that about my friend too. she who was laid back her son was completely different with her. confidently strutting around the playground. but on the days when her dad brougth him for the playdate he was just barely inches from him stopping him and he was a completely different child with him. nervous, shy tripping scared child. the very thing he could do confidently with his mom, he was tripping over.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

If you mean was I tripping DS up, no, I mean I was staying a couple of feet away from him instead of sitting and chatting on a bench. I wasn't any closer to him than most people stay to their one-year-olds, it just would have looked too close for a two-year-old, and he appeared to be two.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

I personally think there is a happy medium to helicoptering them and letting them try new things out and yet all I ever see are the extremes. Sat we spent the day at the park and it was a major bubble wrap experience to the point where my 3.5 yr old DS cried three times because there was no one to play with. The park was packed but none of the parents would let their kids play with anyone. The last 20 mins out of a three hour trip he played with a sweet little boy though, so it wasnt all a bust.

I also witnessed something that is still bothering me. Under the structure there is a little play area with counters and seats, like a diner, where you can use the mulch to make stuff. DS and I went under there to make a 7 layer cake and some pizza. A 2 yr old sweet girl was under there putting mulch on the counter and her mother was screaming at her that it WASNT HAMBURGER IT WAS MULCH and to put it back on the ground and it was so sad I could cry. To squash creativity like that.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

My kid won't play unless I'm right there with her and encouraging her. In fact, if I don't remind her to be cautious she also won't do anything. She seriously will just look at me like 'uh... what do I do?' When I'm right there with her and gently reminding her to watch her step or go feet first down the slide, she WILL climb the ladder and go down the slide.

I've had people I micromanage and that i'm a helicopter parent. These are the same people who let their two year old play in the pool alone with no one watching... and often don't have a clue where he is because they trust their 8 year old to take care of him just fine. I AM cautious with my daughter and certainly moreso than many of the people I know around here... but its exactly what she needs right now. If I don't follow her somewhat closely, she will just turn around and cling to my leg. She IS my first child so I can't say this bothers me that much. I happily let her do all sorts of things that some would probably not allow... but with me right there next to her. She doesn't play on playground equipment alone.

I do let her run though... in fact, I encourage it!


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

I hover by mine until after age 2 and after I've seen them climb whatever without a single slip a few times. Most of the parents I see at the park do the same but until like 3.5 I guess, but my boys are both rather strong and careful though adventurous. We mostly play in public at the zoo playground and the park the yuppie/hippie area of town. Any play with sticks is (oddly IMO) forbidden a lot of times though.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Oh, this drives me crazy. But DS is a pretty cautious, laid back kid so I don't really worry about him getting ahead of himself (or me!) by being a daredevil.

What really gets me is my mom- she's always saying "Be careful! Be careful! Be careful!" every 20 seconds when she's with him. That is just a spectacularly unhelpful thing to say IMO. Most of the time *I* can't even tell what she's cautioning him against.... how is a 2-year old supposed to figure it out?

I wish she would at least be specific in what she tells him. "Keep your fingers away from the door!" or something similar. But, of course, the vast majority of the time there is nothing specific to worry about, which is the point.

*sigh*


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
Under the structure there is a little play area with counters and seats, like a diner, where you can use the mulch to make stuff. DS and I went under there to make a 7 layer cake and some pizza. A 2 yr old sweet girl was under there putting mulch on the counter and her mother was screaming at her that it WASNT HAMBURGER IT WAS MULCH and to put it back on the ground and it was so sad I could cry. To squash creativity like that.









This reminds me of something that bothered me at a couple of public pools we went to this summer. The RULES they had were unbelievable! At one, you couldn't sit on the gutter at the side of the pool. No idea why. You could sit on the side, but not a half step down in the gutter. You couldn't block the water flow while there... it was just weird.

But what really got me was in the kiddie pool (you know, 1 ft deep max) they had a slide structure thing, and underneath the slide was a tunnel. And they didn't allow any kids (or grownups







*me* ahem) to crawl through the tunnel.

Ummm.... WHY do you have a tunnel if no one is allowed to go through it? I mean, really!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I am pretty hands off.

But to be blunt with you, my 8 year old broke her ankle in July and is still not totally out of a cast (she is in a walking boot now thank god). She did it jumping off the top of a playset in order to "ambush" someone (she says the lesson was not to do it in her high heeled boots "next time." *sigh*).

That one accident will cost us more than $3000 before we're done, not to mention blowing her summer, blowing already paid for lessons, lots of time spent with a super cranky kid who got her ability to run free through our woods taken away during the best part of the summer, who I will now have to watch closely for months to make sure that she does not push the edge too hard and reinjure herself.

To be honest, I might actually remind her to be careful and not jump off of things for awhile. Not saying that everyone who seems a bit nervous has had a kid go to the ER for their injuries--but you never know. I've dealt with a broken leg. I know others who have had to pick gravel out of road rash that exposed raw tendons, still others who have had to deal with concussions, scalp wound gory blood explosions, ect. Granted, we tend to have to do that because we don't wrap our kids in bubble wrap, but try to be compassionate with people you don't know--you don't know what they saw last.

I wouldn't get too cocky thinking that the people who are a little on edge are only worried about a few "scrapes and bruises". My kids get banged up all the time--but I don't have 3k lying around willy nilly to patch up broken limbs, and you didn't see my kid turning grey from shock from the pain, I don't know if the parent who's freaking out over their kid standing up on the slide didn't see someone take a 6 foot fall straight on their head from doing the same thing the week before. If you free range your kids (like me) more power to ya, but you never know what other people have experienced and sometimes it's nice to just let other people do their own thing.


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2004)

My friend's DH is a bubblewrap dad. He and his son (5 yrs now) argue a lot because of it. The dad is now starting to consciously give his son some freedom. My friend says that they are getting along so much better now. (The dad was pretty much left on his own from a young age so that was his helicopter motivation.)


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

I think this is totally kid and parent dependent. I see extremes of the micromanaging you describe and the way too hands-off parents who don't pay enough attention to what their kids are doing.

It's odd that you only saw one extreme at that park. Were the kids very young? I ask because I think there's a huge difference between micromanaging a toddler and micromanaging a school-aged child. Toddlers bite, yank toys away from one another, misjudge their abilities, etc.. I tend to think kids under three or so do need a careful eye and an adult close by, some more than others. But if that micromanaging were happening among older kids, yeah, that's weird; I'm surprised the kids were tolerating it.

About the baby-touching. I don't let my kids touch babies at all, especially very young ones. Babies immune system's aren't all that well developed, and some babies startle easily. I figure parents of babies have enough to worry about without my kid frightening them or passing on some germ, so I have a strong 'look but don't touch rule' around babies, especially ones we don't know. I've gotten some pretty strange looks from parents when I stop my kid from touching their infant, but some have also been grateful.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wild Lupine* 
About the baby-touching. I don't let my kids touch babies at all, especially very young ones. Babies immune system's aren't all that well developed, and some babies startle easily. I figure parents of babies have enough to worry about without my kid frightening them or passing on some germ, so I have a strong 'look but don't touch rule' around babies, especially ones we don't know. I've gotten some pretty strange looks from parents when I stop my kid from touching their infant, but some have also been grateful.











This too. DS is a curious little guy and while he can usually be trusted to be very gentle, sometimes he gets carried away with the grabbing and touching. When it comes to other people's babies, especially strangers, I tend to err on the side of caution. I'd rather they think I'm a helicopter parent than freak out because my son touched their child's face too hard or tugged on her lip and made her cry or something else that is completely, totally preventable with a little bit of careful supervision.


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## Tway (Jul 1, 2010)

I guess people may think I micromanage DD. I tend to stay close to her, and watch her a lot--especially now that she's starting to climb stuff and stand and test out the walking a bit. I mean, she has no idea what she's going to be capable of next--and she also has no fear. So I hover a little to make sure she doesn't go crashing into anything. Last month I got out of bed for a second and she landed on the floor on her nose. Not fun for either of us.

I think it's also cause she's my first, and I'm still learning my own boundaries with DD as well as with myself. I find that, with each new skill she learns, I learn to step back as she gains confidence. I do try not to say "no" and instead redirect her. I also catch myself micromanaging and make a conscious effort to let go and let her explore.

Being a baby is a learning game--and so is being a new parent. I think as long as we remember that we're trying to raise happy, adjusted, independent kids, we'll learn to give them the space they need.

ETA: A few weeks back, a kid about 4 or 5 was wandering around the park with his bike, alone. A few parents asked him where his Mommy or Daddy were, and he replied that he had to wait there for them to come back. They dropped him off and went who knows where. So there are extremes on both sides, I'd say.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

It doesn't drive me crazy, except when other parents freak out at my DS1 for doing something, often giving me the evil eye (cause' I'm not, you know, freaking out at him for climbing up a slide or whatever). But I do see it... I assure you, I'm not one of those parents. I sit back'n let ds1 play. I keep an eye on him, but mostly on ds2 (whose learning to walk, atm...), or else sit'n read my book


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

You know, I think I'm a little bit of both, depending on the situation.

My kids spend *hours* out of my line of site in our yard and the neighbors yard. I can hear them, and I do regular yell-checks--if they want to keep playing they all have to answer immediately when I call.

But, there's a large play structure that I really hate to go to (of course they love it) because I can't see them when they're running around in there. It's a public place, lots of parents and kids go there. But to me it doesn't feel safe. I tend to follow them around and make sure I can see them when we're there.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Ultimately for me it boils down to this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 









but other parents might have different boundaries for their children, and that's okay too. They're not my kids, so I try not to worry about it.

Why belabor other people's parenting in the absence of safety issues and abuse?

Different kids, different parents, different personalities equal a number of different approaches. Add to that that yes, it is only a snapshot that you're seeing.

What I find odd is that while you're not busy micromanaging your child, you are, in a way, busy trying to micromanage (or unmicromanage) other families.

I don't get the judgment surrounding parents whose parenting styles are different from your family's.


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## SashaBreeze (Apr 18, 2009)

Just the other day I was going through some old photos and found one of my oldest child's first snow. I laughed my tushie off. There was my little girl, right at 1 year old) not only with a snow suit on AND a coat AND mittens with hat AND a snow mask but I had also put a blanket on the ground for her to sit on top of the snow!








I'm sooo not that parent anymore, and do find myself sometimes feeling sorry for kiddos that their parents are doing that sort of thing. But sometimes it can be hard to learn that balance between keeping our kids safe and going overboard. Some of us, including myself, have a steeper learning curve than others.


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## HappilyEvrAfter (Apr 1, 2009)

Lol. This title made me think of that commercial (maybe it's a CEC commercial) where the mom wraps her kids in bubble wrap and then sends them off for a bike ride.

I'm totally NOT that way. Go, play, get some scrapes. I think mine has learned his limitations because he's had the chance to test his abilities within certain safety restrictions. I mean, I'm not gonna let him jump off a roof, but he's free to jump off the top of our playground slide.

I let him climb the tree in our front yard and the lady across the street looked at her son and said, "Don't even think that I'm gonna let you do that."
Hm, ok, no problem, no issue....until she looked at my son (with me there) and said, "You should get down too cause you might break your arm."

I'm all for freedom of parenting, but when another parent tries to apply their restrictions on my kid (with me standing there!) then I'm gonna speak up....otherwise, have at it your own way.

I do sometimes giggle inside because some of the things parents restrict their kids from doing, but then I have to realize that from the outside my "freerange" parenting is totally odd to them...so, in the end, we're even. Lol.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

And that, is why I stopped taking my kids to playgrounds!









I had one near hysterical woman yell at me " Your son! He's on the rock! He's on the rock!!Get him!! Quick!! OMG!!!
(the 'rock' in question being a three foot high boulder placed in the park, most likely for climbing/sitting on, the child in question, a three year old pistol who had been climbing sailboat masts since before he could walk, and was, at that moment sitting placidly on this rock picking his nose- not his best moment, true, but he was in no danger)
Me - oh, ya, he's got it, no worries.....hey, what the??? is that a DIRTY NEEDLE your little guy is holding???"
I'm awful like that though.

I must admit though, even though I allow, and teach my kids to do things that may be considered dangerous, or may make me look negligent, there are some things I'm stickler on.
Like walking on the road/sidewalk....people might think I'm a lunatic for herding my kids to the inside, away from traffic constantly,(even though they keep to the side anyway) I'm just so paranoid that they'll stumble and fall under the wheels of a truck. Or lifevests at the beach, I probably appear overprotective. But on the flip side, I had my 7 y/o chop up the fallen tree on our land last week, with the big ax (not his little hatchet) and we let them row their boat all over the bay alone for hours with just the handheld radio to contact us.
So while walking down the road I might have the other parents out for a walk thinking "what a lunatic, lighten the heck up lady" and rolling their eyes, they'd probably not think me the same person if they saw me doing yardwork while my kid chopped up a tree. It's just what they saw and when they saw it, a small glimpse of a huge picture.

Also....maybe with playgrounds is that parents do/act how they 'think' they should act. KWIM? Maybe at home they're child is as free range as the chickens who roam the hills but they're afraid of looking bad in front of other parents so they go overboard on being protective? Just a thought....


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'm very free range, but I see a lot of people saying they don't freerange their kids,and the kids are like 1.5 or 2 or something. I think it's totally appropriate to helicopter a toddler. Preschoolers, not so much. School-age kids need even more space. For me, it's something that happens as kids get older, not something that starts at birth.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
Why belabor other people's parenting in the absence of safety issues and abuse?

I wouldn't belabour it, but I do think the scenario in the OP would drive me crazy. That kind of energy just wipes me out.

Quote:

What I find odd is that while you're not busy micromanaging your child, you are, in a way, busy trying to micromanage (or unmicromanage) other families.
How on earth can having an opinion, that one isn't _acting_ on in any way, be perceived as trying to micromanage anything? She isn't trying to make all these other parents lighten up, yk?

Quote:

I don't get the judgment surrounding parents whose parenting styles are different from your family's.
Most - I'm tempted to say "all" - people judge parenting that they consider harmful to children. Many people consider the kind of extensive "helicopter" or "bubble wrap" parenting described in the OP to be harmful to children. It may not be where you would draw the line, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid concern for some people. For me, I accepted a long time ago that many people think I'm negligent in my approach ("my baby's eating rocks? Oh, I know - she does that a lot - thanks for letting me know, though"), and I accepted a long time ago that other people worry more - or at least about different things - than I do. I roll with it okay. But, the overall scene described in the OP would still wear me out, and probably kill my enjoyment of the playground.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Most - I'm tempted to say "all" - people judge parenting that they consider harmful to children. Many people consider the kind of extensive "helicopter" or "bubble wrap" parenting described in the OP to be harmful to children. It may not be where you would draw the line, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid concern for some people. For me, I accepted a long time ago that many people think I'm negligent in my approach ("my baby's eating rocks? Oh, I know - she does that a lot - thanks for letting me know, though"), and I accepted a long time ago that other people worry more - or at least about different things - than I do. I roll with it okay. But, the overall scene described in the OP would still wear me out, and probably kill my enjoyment of the playground.

Totally. I am a laid back mom, I know what my kids can and can not do and generally don't stress about the rest. I know people think I am bad mom at times, I can't tell you how many times neighbor of mine while we are standing there watching our two kids playing has told me "to go get my kid" because she is climbing on something or just generally playing in a way that I am ok with. I get it at the park, at gymnastics, I allow my kids to take risks, not ones I see as unsafe, if they get some bumps and bruises then so be it. I ahve had a child get a severe burn, break an arm, and knock out several teeth and every single incident occured while doing something so tame that 99.9% of people never would of batted an eye at the behavior. Did you know sneezing at the table while eating breakfast can cause a child to whack their head so hard on the table that teeth fly everywhere?









I had more thoughts but must go work.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappilyEvrAfter* 
I'm totally NOT that way. Go, play, get some scrapes. I think mine has learned his limitations because he's had the chance to test his abilities within certain safety restrictions. I mean, I'm not gonna let him jump off a roof, but he's free to jump off the top of our playground slide.

This! DS and DD have had some minor scrapes, and they have had the opportunities to test themselves, test their boundaries, test their environment.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappilyEvrAfter* 
I do sometimes giggle inside because some of the things parents restrict their kids from doing, but then I have to realize that from the outside my "freerange" parenting is totally odd to them...so, in the end, we're even. Lol.

And this.









The original posters scenario would have annoyed and depressed me, so I would have taken my kids and left to find something more pleasant to do. I agree, if I don't know the other parents, and even if I do know them, I can't judge - I don't know their kids personality, how their day has been, anything about their lives. But it would be depressing and I can change my environment, by leaving if needed.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm a nutcase about car and traffic safety. It's cars that are the number one danger to children in this country, after all, and so I am very comfortable being extremely over-careful about all things related to vehicles. And so many parents of young kids are so extremely casual about car seats, for instance, to the point of breaking the law. And it drives me nuts, because in so many cases that I can think of, the parents with the four year old riding with nothing but a lap belt are the same parents who are anxiously hovering over their kids at the playground.

I think too many parents worry about the wrong dangers. And I hate it when I hear car seats used as an example of "bubble wrap" parenting. I see that sometimes in articles about this issue.

Anyway, other than cars, I'm really very hands-off. Probably hands-off enough to make even the generally free-range parents uncomfortable.







My three year olds play outside alone. My babies were the ones allowed to taste the dirt and paddle in the mud. My six year old walks herself home from the bus stop. It's how I was raised, I guess. DH and I argue about it all the time, too, because he was raised by a helicopter mom-- good grief, she STILL helicopters, and he's 34 years old for crying out loud. So even though philosophically he agrees more with me, his gut-level reactions are more like how his mom was.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peony* 
Did you know sneezing at the table while eating breakfast can cause a child to whack their head so hard on the table that teeth fly everywhere?









I hope you'll forgive me, but I almost spit kale on the keyboard when I read that. I'm sure it wasn't funny at all, as knocking out teeth is pretty major, but it was awfully funny to read!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra* 
Anyway, other than cars, I'm really very hands-off. Probably hands-off enough to make even the generally free-range parents uncomfortable.







My three year olds play outside alone. My babies were the ones allowed to taste the dirt and paddle in the mud. My six year old walks herself home from the bus stop. It's how I was raised, I guess. DH and I argue about it all the time, too, because he was raised by a helicopter mom-- good grief, she STILL helicopters, and he's 34 years old for crying out loud. So even though philosophically he agrees more with me, his gut-level reactions are more like how his mom was.

I'm very free range by the standards in my neighbourhood, and I still feel as though I stifle my kids a bit when I remember how I grew up. I was catching the bus across town (about a 20-30 minute ride) to watch movies when I was 6...although I did have two friends with me. I can't imagine letting dd1 do that.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Some here have said this is totally kid/parent dependent. While there is no question that individual kids of the same age can have totally different skill sets, sense of risk and caution... (and then their parents understandably differ in how much they helicopter because of those differences), I also truly believe and have seen that sometimes parents' anxieties about little tiny stuff really affects their kids and can make their kids more anxious and maybe sometimes even stifle their abilities.

I'm not saying that because of that, then we should be at the playground worrying about all these other kids or assuming we can tell which kids need the helicoptering and which don't, because we can't and we don't know. But I agree with OP and several others here that sometimes you DO see enough in a small interaction to at least think "Wow, barring some crazy past tragedy with mulch, it is really hard for me to see why a little girl who *obviously* knows it's mulch and not pizza, has to be yelled at by her parent to stop pretending it's play pizza!"

For me and my parenting choices on this, I was totally affected by a child I met before I had kids. I was at a wedding and met this 2 yr old - both his parents are Outward Bound instructors. Not only was this kid BRILLIANT and had a great disposition, he could play with the older kids, run around, dodge furniture and foliage and all sorts of other stuff with the most agile older kids, but he was also one of the most confident & sweet toddlers I'd ever been around (and it was a 4 day wedding, so we were together a lot).

Of course who he was (and is now) is a combo of many different factors, but his parents' parenting style really stuck with me. They said "Yeah, he had to hit his head on furniture a couple times to figure out he didn't like hitting his head, but never any real serious injuries and we knew he'd figure out how to be careful." There were several times over the 4 days other parents could be seen watching in great concern as he did something... but I totally could see that he was good, he had this, and he never faltered.

I'm definitely not *as* free range and adventurous with my child's risk taking as they are (they now have 2 kids, still 2 of the smartest, secure, social, sweetest kids I've ever met), but I made a point of really letting my DD teach ME what she was and wasn't capable of, and having that be my guide to what she's allowed to try and what I helicopter about.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
What I find odd is that while you're not busy micromanaging your child, you are, in a way, busy trying to micromanage (or unmicromanage) other families.

I don't get the judgment surrounding parents whose parenting styles are different from your family's.

I'd like to add to Stormbride's response to you that also, for me OP's post was *very much* written from an observational, conversational point of view, and NOT an "OH MY GOSH WHY ISN'T CHILD WELFARE PATROLLING THESE PLAYGROUNDS AND FIXING THIS?!"-type of judgement that this has to be stopped immediately. OPs not talking about *doing* anything, just wondering whether others see what she's seeing and what they think.

There's a difference between pointing out something you've noticed and asking others what they think/what they do, and saying "I've seen this and it is simply WRONG and I want to know what to do about it".


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm both a helicopter parent and free range. I let my 20 month old dd touch anything as long as it isn't hot, poisonous or poop, and I let her climb pretty much anything as long as I am close enough to catch her (although I drew the line when she tried to climb a twenty foot playground structure last week). I think it is very important to let kids explore. I try to avoid saying "no" too much because I think in the long run it will discourage exploration and curiosity. I feel like curiosity is one of the most important features of a happy person, so I really want to encourage it.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

I have a 14 year old and an almost 2 year old. I was very free range with my teen, on purpose. And so far I think I have done ok with her.

However, I find I am having a hard time finding the balance with the two year old. My toddler is FEARLESS. She is 100% confident that she's totally safe in whatever situation she is in. We take her in the neighborhood pool and she "jumps" off the side into our arms...and she will do this over and over, without ever waiting to see if we are ready or paying attention to whether or not we are looking, or even THERE. She will take off running for the stairs, knows they are there, and will just run head first down them, not caring if anyone is there to catch her or that she doesn't have the balance to run down them that fast. Heights don't scare her, she will walk to the edge of a playstructure and just stand there staring down, sometimes even trying to take a step off. When she was about a year old, occasionally loud noises or being in water would scare her or at least give her a pause, but now, absolutely nothing scares her in the least and she has no caution.

That makes it very hard to know just what she can do on her own and what she needs hovering for.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

DS2 is fearless like that. It's scary - really scary. This kid will bolt into a parking lot, with cars pulling out everywhere, and do so not 30 seconds after telling me all about the car safety stuff they learned from "Elmer the Safety Elephant" at preschool. He wants to run into a bear (we had one in our complex a couple weeks ago), so that he can "beat it up". He's just not getting it, yet...constant work in progress. I don't think having a daredevil older brother is helping. DS2 can't see that ds1 actually has a _very_ good grasp of his own abilities and knows what he can handle - he's not just jumping on/climbing stuff without having a good idea that he _can_.

ETA: After reading the two posts below, I'll also mention that I'm about 99% sure ds2 has sensory processing issues - sensory seeking...it would explain a _lot_ about why the last 3.5 years have been so...insane (although there have been other factors, too).


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I also have a fearless 2 year old. I've always been very laid back about exploring and bumps and bruises, but she seems to be an extreme. I mean completely 100% fearless unless it's a loud noise. She is injured at least once a day and looks like she's been run over by a car a good deal of the time with bruises and scrapes. I've gotten to not letting her go on walks unless she's in the stroller going down hills or crossing roads because she's almost had her teeth knocked out and has had some huge bumps on her head from just running into stuff or falling face first down a hill. It scares the crap out of me how much she hurts herself. I'm starting to wonder if it's sensory related.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittywitty* 
I also have a fearless 2 year old. I've always been very laid back about exploring and bumps and bruises, but she seems to be an extreme. I mean completely 100% fearless unless it's a loud noise. She is injured at least once a day and looks like she's been run over by a car a good deal of the time with bruises and scrapes. I've gotten to not letting her go on walks unless she's in the stroller going down hills or crossing roads because she's almost had her teeth knocked out and has had some huge bumps on her head from just running into stuff or falling face first down a hill. It scares the crap out of me how much she hurts herself. I'm starting to wonder if it's sensory related.

dd is like that too. She is impervious to pain. We had her looked at by an OT, and yes she has sensory issues.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

The injuries on my 2 year old, yeah, same thing. Often, unless she knows that we have seen her fall (ie she wants the attention for it) we don't even realize an injury has occured until we see her with the fat lip or the bruise. There's not a day that goes by without a new bump or bruise or scrape appearing.

ETA: I am sure my dd does not have sensory issues, as she does react to pain. She just apparenly has a high pain tolerance. A couple of weeks ago, she tripped (on nothing) while running in the house and took a header right into the corner of a box of diapers. She hit hard enough in just the right spot that she got a cut within millimeters of her eye and her whole eye blacked up. That for sure caused a genuine reaction to pain. And within days of it healing, she bounced off the corner of the wall and cut and blacked the SAME eye. Again, genuine pain reaction. She also has no other real symptoms of a sensory issue, so I am not worried about that. She just seems to have a high pain tolerance and no concern for her own safety.


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## marimara (Jan 31, 2008)

I'll admit I do some helicoptering with my almost 4 year old. I hate it but I have to do it at the park. I do restrain myself from saying "be careful" "watch out", "hold onto the railing". I really really try. And I let her wander all she wants to and go on whatever equipments she wants to, but I have to be pretty close.

Why? Because she is sooo clumsy. She nearly drowned in 1 foot of water at age 2.5 last summer at the baby pool. She could stand up easily but she panicked when her face was in the water. I was next to the pool (about 3 feet way). She panics in close quarters, especially with other kids around. Like at the indoor playgrounds at fast food joints.

Just _last week,_ she was climbing up a ladder at the park, luckily I was close, because she slipped on the rung above her and I caught her 5 five feet off the ground. Then she was climbing a faux rock wall mountain thingie, more horizontally than vertically, and she slipped completely off and would have fallen 4 ft to the ground had I not been close enough to grab her by the leg before her head hit the ground.

A couple months ago, she left the steps of the pool (where she's allowed to play when I am not in the actual water with her-she has for months and months faithfully played on the steps and never once wandered into the pool without me, though I am watching her from about 3 feet away) and went into the water and started flailing. Her 7 year old friend in the pool actually pulled her out before I could get there. She forgot she couldn't swim. Now she has to wear a flotation device to play on the steps. This happened at 3.5 years of age.

I mention how far away I am in all of this because it goes to show you how she gets into danger even when I am close! The child can read and is smart as a whip but she does not have a lot of body awareness. She is enrolled in dance and soccer this fall in the hopes of her becoming more body aware and helping with motor skills.

ETA: and I question whether my being close is encouraging her to be careless and I try to take that into account. I felt like such the horrible mom during the pool incidents, of course. And I'm really hands off at home, she chops veggies, has 5 pairs of her own scissors, helps me sewing, etc.
Oh, but I also wanted to add that I, myself, am really really clumsy. I'm always dropping things or hurting myself. My dh makes fun of me constantly for it, since he's very athletic/coordinated. I once tripped while hiking downhill and eating a granola bar at the same time. I went tumbling down the trail, granola bar in hand







So I wonder if it's a genetic thing, or if maybe she needs to be evaluated, now that I think about it....


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LROM* 
Some here have said this is totally kid/parent dependent. While there is no question that individual kids of the same age can have totally different skill sets, sense of risk and caution... (and then their parents understandably differ in how much they helicopter because of those differences), I also truly believe and have seen that sometimes parents' anxieties about little tiny stuff really affects their kids and can make their kids more anxious and maybe sometimes even stifle their abilities.

ITA. IMO, a lot of kids fall, wreck... specifically because their parents are interfering with their concentration by telling them to "be careful. Slow down. Woa - watch your step...." If the parents step back, hold their breath and let their child concentrate fully on the activity, then they don't fall.

When my 3 yo is racing down the hill on her bike on a rainy day (like today), and I hold my breath and just watch as she whizzes past a car, she is fine. She knows when to slow down, when approaching the turn to school to drag her feet to break.... She is concentrating where her body is, what it is doing, and on the things around her, how to avoid them (by an inch!). But.... if I say "stop DD. Slow down" then she is NOT paying attention to her body in space; she has turned her concentration to me. And then she is much more likely to fall or wreck. This goes for just about everything she does. So unless it is really critical (like biking off a cliff), then I hold my breath a lot and trust that she has built up the experiences to be in control of her body. And she has.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marimara* 
Oh, but I also wanted to add that I, myself, am really really clumsy. I'm always dropping things or hurting myself. My dh makes fun of me constantly for it, since he's very athletic/coordinated. I once tripped while hiking downhill and eating a granola bar at the same time. I went tumbling down the trail, granola bar in hand







So I wonder if it's a genetic thing, or if maybe she needs to be evaluated, now that I think about it....

I'm not exactly clumsy, but I'm not very coordinated, and have always been _really_ challenged by athletic pursuits. It's funny you say that about tripping. Two weeks ago (yesterday), I went down hard enough to leave most of my shin, both knees, and one forearm covered in "road rash", and I also smacked my cheek during the fall. The scabs are mostly cleared up, and the shin and one knee (same side) are mostly just itchy, but there's definitely some scarring. What was I doing when I fell? "Hiking", which, in this case, meant walking along a flat, dirt trail, with virtually no tripping hazards. I seem to have just stumbled over my own feet.

And, honestly, after reading "The Out of Sync Child", I think I have a touch of SPD, focused in the proprioceptive area. I suspect ds2 also has this to deal with (as well as a fairly significant case of sensory seeking tactile issues). I always thought I was just an uncoordinated klutz...


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marimara* 
I'll admit I do some helicoptering with my almost 4 year old. I hate it but I have to do it at the park. I do restrain myself from saying "be careful" "watch out", "hold onto the railing". I really really try. And I let her wander all she wants to and go on whatever equipments she wants to, but I have to be pretty close.

Why? Because she is sooo clumsy. She nearly drowned in 1 foot of water at age 2.5 last summer at the baby pool. She could stand up easily but she panicked when her face was in the water. I was next to the pool (about 3 feet way). She panics in close quarters, especially with other kids around. Like at the indoor playgrounds at fast food joints.

Just _last week,_ she was climbing up a ladder at the park, luckily I was close, because she slipped on the rung above her and I caught her 5 five feet off the ground. Then she was climbing a faux rock wall mountain thingie, more horizontally than vertically, and she slipped completely off and would have fallen 4 ft to the ground had I not been close enough to grab her by the leg before her head hit the ground.

A couple months ago, she left the steps of the pool (where she's allowed to play when I am not in the actual water with her-she has for months and months faithfully played on the steps and never once wandered into the pool without me, though I am watching her from about 3 feet away) and went into the water and started flailing. Her 7 year old friend in the pool actually pulled her out before I could get there. She forgot she couldn't swim. Now she has to wear a flotation device to play on the steps. This happened at 3.5 years of age.

I mention how far away I am in all of this because it goes to show you how she gets into danger even when I am close! The child can read and is smart as a whip but she does not have a lot of body awareness. She is enrolled in dance and soccer this fall in the hopes of her becoming more body aware and helping with motor skills.

ETA: and I question whether my being close is encouraging her to be careless and I try to take that into account. I felt like such the horrible mom during the pool incidents, of course. And I'm really hands off at home, she chops veggies, has 5 pairs of her own scissors, helps me sewing, etc.
Oh, but I also wanted to add that I, myself, am really really clumsy. I'm always dropping things or hurting myself. My dh makes fun of me constantly for it, since he's very athletic/coordinated. I once tripped while hiking downhill and eating a granola bar at the same time. I went tumbling down the trail, granola bar in hand







So I wonder if it's a genetic thing, or if maybe she needs to be evaluated, now that I think about it....

See, I don't really see this as helicoptering (or "over-helicoptering" anyway). I could see how maybe someone watching you at a playground would notice you staying really close, but that in and of itself doesn't seem problematic to me at all. It's all the verbal and physical intervening when the child doesn't seem to be doing anything even faintly dangerous that seems over the top to me. But trying to be there to catch them when/if they fall, until they really show they are on top of it and most likely wont fall, that to me makes all the sense in the world.

DD is 2 and I took her to the pool recently, and you best believe I was right there practically on top of her at all times, because she's also fearless and hasn't a clue how to swim and I just wanted to make sure that the moment she went under (and she did several times), I was right there to pull her out. I did *let* her go under several times when I could have caught her before her head went under, because I wanted her to get comfy with being underwater and not be scared of it. Also trying to get her used to spitting the water out and not swallowing it. But I was never more than 6 inches away even though the water was so shallow.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

My Ds1 was like the above posters - from about 12-30 months or so I always said it was a minor miracle if we didn't end up with a bump/bruise/scrape from *something* somewhere on his body - mostly his head







And yeah, most of the time I couldn't tell you where any one bang came from. DS2 has arrived at that stage now too, though ds1 is mostly outgrown it and not quite so accident prone









Honestly though, I've never been one to stand behind ds1 while climbing stuff. He knows how to climb, and he knows I am *NOT* going to rescue him - our rule from the time the boys started climbing was simple: NEVER climb UP anything you can't climb back DOWN. And they know it. If they climb up something they can sit ontop of it and scream their little lungs out for an hour tilll they decide to climb back down - I'll help once, but after that their on their own. And they know it. And ds1 has never fallen from any significant height - cause' he knows I am *NOT* their to catch him.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

My two year old, I don't helicopter at all- well except when she is swinging on hte monkey bars and giving other parents heart attacks. The three-next-month little girl I baby sit NEEDS to be helicoptered, basically to be told what to do next at every turn. Otherwise she won't do ANYTHING. She is very cautious, and needs a lot of direction or will walk right under the monkey bars or in front of swings. She does best when there are only a very very few kids on the playground= then she will go on the slide over and over happily.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marimara* 
I mention how far away I am in all of this because it goes to show you how she gets into danger even when I am close! The child can read and is smart as a whip but she does not have a lot of body awareness. She is enrolled in dance and soccer this fall in the hopes of her becoming more body aware and helping with motor skills.

Have you tried having someone else keep an eye on her? I've heard so many stories of kids who were really "clumsy" when their parents were there and completely competent around other people. It'd be really interesting to know if she is clumsy or if it's a reaction to your concern about her.


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## Curlyfry7 (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm different depending on which kid we're talking about.

DS (almost 4) is cautious, but brave-he knows his body, is very athletic, excellent balance, fast reflexes. I haven't had to follow him around at the park for a while. He runs, gets dirty, gets hurt, plays with sticks (gasp!!) and I can stand and talk to my playgroup moms, and he just needs to stay in my sight and answer if I yell.

DD, however, is another story. She is 20 months old, and obviously I help her on the playground equipment as she tries to follow her brother.







But she is pretty clumsy-has fallen HARD numerous times, can't/doesn't know how to catch herself, etc. I can often be heard telling her to be careful or don't run (on the cement) as she almost always falls, and then she's a screaming mess for the next 30 minutes, when I have FINALLY gotten her off my body to go do something where I don't have to hold her. This is the kid who has fallen over backwards like a felled tree just from looking up at me. But, she gets dirty all the time (has come home from DH's shop completely black from dirt) and I didn't freak if she ate something off the ground. I just know she gets hurt a lot and so I tend to follow her more.


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## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

DS is three and he likes me to play with him on the playground. He asks for help on the playscapes and wants me to catch him/hold his hand/give him a boost. He has some excellent fine motor skills (writing correctly with a pencil at 18 months) but he isn't the most graceful and is just now gaining more spacial and body awareness. He likes me close by. If I go sit on a bench he'll come sit with me, and then ask me if I will come play with him. He is an observer, slow to warm up, and very particular about his playmates. He has a few friends that he loves to play and can be very social, but when they aren't around he prefers to play with me. I don't mind - I enjoy his company and we have a lot of fun!

I have been accused of 'helicopter' parenting a time or two. I always find it amazing that someone cares enough to critique my parenting and judge the amount of time I spend with my child on the playground. I mean, really? I'm damaging my child because he asked me to hold his hand while he walked on a 12 inch retaining wall? Every child is different. I think most parents just try to do right by their children and be the best parent they can be. If someone does not like me assisting my kid on the playground, they should just put their feet up, read their book, and pay me no attention. No need to judge.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
Honestly though, I've never been one to stand behind ds1 while climbing stuff. He knows how to climb, and he knows I am *NOT* going to rescue him - our rule from the time the boys started climbing was simple: NEVER climb UP anything you can't climb back DOWN. And they know it. *If they climb up something they can sit ontop of it and scream their little lungs out for an hour tilll they decide to climb back down* - I'll help once, but after that their on their own. And they know it. And ds1 has never fallen from any significant height - cause' he knows I am *NOT* their to catch him.









Wow, I can't imagine doing that. I know that all kids are different, but my daughter is so cautious and anxious that I think this would actually scar her. I'm so proud when she actually has the guts to scale something high that I don't hold it against her if she fears coming down. It doesn't seem very AP to let a toddler scream for an hour because she's scared.


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## dahlialia (Mar 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittywitty* 
I also have a fearless 2 year old. I've always been very laid back about exploring and bumps and bruises, but she seems to be an extreme. I mean completely 100% fearless unless it's a loud noise. She is injured at least once a day and looks like she's been run over by a car a good deal of the time with bruises and scrapes. I've gotten to not letting her go on walks unless she's in the stroller going down hills or crossing roads because she's almost had her teeth knocked out and has had some huge bumps on her head from just running into stuff or falling face first down a hill. It scares the crap out of me how much she hurts herself. I'm starting to wonder if it's sensory related.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *scottishmommy* 
dd is like that too. She is impervious to pain. We had her looked at by an OT, and yes she has sensory issues.

This has me wondering if the opposite might also be true. My DD1 is very cautious, always has been, and she also reacts very strongly (overreacts IMO) to pain of any/all kinds.

DD2 is a lot more adventurous, though she seems to know her limits, and isn't bothered by the dings she gets discovering those limits.


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## MJB (Nov 28, 2009)

My kids will happily jump off 10' high climbing structures or from tree branches. I try to discourage that but pretty much sit back and am thankful we have good health insurance and they seem to have strong bones. Thus far they've each had a sprained foot and my oldest got an extremely abraded, bruised hand when his brother smashed it between two bricks, but no breaks or stitches so I think we're doing fine. I let them roam my mom's farm unsupervised and they ride bikes, scooters, and skateboards up and down the sidewalk after school most days.

I think I'm pretty much the opposite of a helicopter mom.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
Have you tried having someone else keep an eye on her? I've heard so many stories of kids who were really "clumsy" when their parents were there and completely competent around other people. It'd be really interesting to know if she is clumsy or if it's a reaction to your concern about her.

I have never heard that. I have one son with big sensory issues who is always hurting himself, just like me. I've always been the same way and it doesn't matter who is watching.


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marimara* 
Oh, but I also wanted to add that I, myself, am really really clumsy.

I prefer the term "spatially unaware" LOL I too am very clumsy. If there is something to trip on or walk into, you can count on me to do it. Unfortunately DS1 has inherited this from me. A lot of the times if you see me holding his hand while he is climbing something etc its b/c HE'S asked me too.

There are two kids in my son's class who get walked to school by their grandma's and both are "cautioned" to death on the way there:
don't pick up the stick its dirty
don't run on the sidewalk, you might fall
don't play with the ice, it might cut you
don't run too far ahead

I guess they must look askance at my stick wielding, ice playing, running ahead DS LOL


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
NEVER climb UP anything you can't climb back DOWN. And they know it. If they climb up something they can sit ontop of it and scream their little lungs out for an hour tilll they decide to climb back down

I don't think I understand. So you're kids aren't allowed to make a mistake? What if they climb something and then realize they can't or are too scared to come down (even if its the second time)? You let them be alone and scared and won't help them? Perhaps I misunderstood your post.


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra* 
I'm a nutcase about car and traffic safety. It's cars that are the number one danger to children in this country, after all, and so I am very comfortable being extremely over-careful about all things related to vehicles. And so many parents of young kids are so extremely casual about car seats, for instance, to the point of breaking the law. And it drives me nuts, because in so many cases that I can think of, the parents with the four year old riding with nothing but a lap belt are the same parents who are anxiously hovering over their kids at the playground.

I think too many parents worry about the wrong dangers. And I hate it when I hear car seats used as an example of "bubble wrap" parenting. I see that sometimes in articles about this issue.


EXACTLY! I just don't get it. I'm totally the same way. Carseat safety, using bike helmets and life jackets... I am viewed as the paranoid parent. But I let my kids just play at the playground, so long as they're not throwing sand in another kid's face or something. I once had a grandma actually physically take ds2 off the slide he was climbing up and then look around with an annoyed face, obviously trying to find his parent. Nobody else was coming down, and he wasn't hurting anything, and yes, I could see him the whole time, I just wasn't hovering underneath him.

And when people are talking about bubble wrap parenting, they are not talking about following toddlers/two-year-olds around. But I have seen a lot of people hovering over 3/4/5+ year olds in a way that makes me feel exhausted just looking at them!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Total tangent, but it sounds to me as though the grandmother saw slide-climbing as an etiquette issue.


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Total tangent, but it sounds to me as though the grandmother saw slide-climbing as an etiquette issue.

No, I'm pretty sure by her body language she was worried he was going to fall. She didn't look annoyed... just concerned.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

They can make mistakes all they like... they just can't expect me to come up after them repeatdly. DS2 liked to climb up on one of our little desks and then scream till you put him down - and he'd do it again. and again. and again. and again. For *hours* on end - climb up, scream to get down, climb up, scream to get down, rinse & repeat. So after a couple times, he got left there. And yes, he wanted down, but you know what? He was just going to climb back up, so I left'm for nearly an hour while I cooked dinner - I could see him and he could see me and he was perfectly safe. He eventually figured out how to get back down. An you know what? He hasn't been back up on it since.









If your there to rescue kids constantly, they'll get in trouble constantly. If you make them learn to think about things and figure stuff out on their own, they will. And they'll think twice about climbing stuff.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MJB* 
My kids will happily jump off 10' high climbing structures or from tree branches. I try to discourage that but pretty much sit back and am thankful we have good health insurance and they seem to have strong bones. Thus far they've each had a sprained foot and my oldest got an extremely abraded, bruised hand when his brother smashed it between two bricks, but no breaks or stitches so I think we're doing fine. I let them roam my mom's farm unsupervised and they ride bikes, scooters, and skateboards up and down the sidewalk after school most days.

Hah, sounds like you're describing the way me and my sibs were. We climbed up everything, jumped off everything, and never had a serious injury FROM PLAYING during childhood.

Every one of our serious injuries actually came from doing something non-play related. I sliced my leg open and nicked an artery while taking out the garbage (have a huge scar from that), my sister sliced her foot open (a very, very long cut + missing skin) while walking down the stairs--and we never figured out what she sliced her foot on.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010...-5-they-should


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
Hah, sounds like you're describing the way me and my sibs were. We climbed up everything, jumped off everything, and never had a serious injury FROM PLAYING during childhood.

Not everyone is so lucky. Two kids in my class during 5th grade alone broke their arms or legs on the playground during recess just playing on the equipment. My daughter broke her collarbone just being a 6 year old wrestling around. My little brother fell off his skateboard and broke his leg. And seeing how I am a total klutz, I don't even need to account for the hundreds of injuries I've had from playing. Broke my toes twice just playing soccer, actually.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittywitty* 
Not everyone is so lucky. Two kids in my class during 5th grade alone broke their arms or legs on the playground during recess just playing on the equipment. My daughter broke her collarbone just being a 6 year old wrestling around. My little brother fell off his skateboard and broke his leg. And seeing how I am a total klutz, I don't even need to account for the hundreds of injuries I've had from playing. Broke my toes twice just playing soccer, actually.









My best friend broke her leg while holding my hand in 5th grade. There was a very steep slope right next to the school and all my friends and I would play a game where we jumped off of it. I was shorter then so I don't know how tall it was, but it was maybe twice as tall as we were? I'll never forget the sound of her leg cracking (shudder). It's amazing that this didn't happen to more of us!

And, helicoptering or not, it's pretty negligent that the school let us play that game. We played it every day for weeks or months, until this happened. There were playground aides who were supposed to be supervising us, and lord knows what they were supposed to be doing if they were letting 6+ 10 year olds jump off a 10' cliff onto concrete... that doesn't sound so much free range as negligent to me.

It is easy to romanticize the "good old days" when kids had a lot less supervision... but kids did frequently get very hurt. Just reading old children's books and you come across characters who drown or lose legs or suffer really severe accidents while playing.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

I think there's a line, and the line is in different places for different kids and different families. I do think some people go too far one way or the other sometimes, but, like was said, I don't know all the circumstances.

I'm sure some people have thought I was overboard yelling at DS2 to "stop running!" But what they may not realize is that he is REALLY bad about falling when running on a decline. He's done it more times than I can count, and has really hurt himself. So he can run uphill, he can run where it's flat, but NOT going downhill.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 
And, helicoptering or not, it's pretty negligent that the school let us play that game. We played it every day for weeks or months, until this happened. There were playground aides who were supposed to be supervising us, and lord knows what they were supposed to be doing if they were letting 6+ 10 year olds jump off a 10' cliff onto concrete... that doesn't sound so much free range as negligent to me.

It's all in how you look at it. I'd have had no problem with ds1 playing that game, and would have completely sympathized with hs frustration had his school put a ban on it. (I would _not_ have tried to get it overturned, though. I figure the school has the right to establish their own safety rules while on school property.) I certainly let him do similar things on more than one occasion. He had a better idea of his physical limits than I did (as I'm a klutz, and would have tried to project what _I_ felt capable of onto him, and he's far more coordinated, agile, athletic, etc. than I am).

Quote:

It is easy to romanticize the "good old days" when kids had a lot less supervision... but kids did frequently get very hurt. Just reading old children's books and you come across characters who drown or lose legs or suffer really severe accidents while playing.
I don't really romanticize them, but my kids have a mostly comparable level of freedom to what I had. I have become paranoid enough to limit a few things we used to do...and enjoy...but I think that mostly means I'm not giving them enough credit.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I was just thinking about this in relation to Halloween candy, we live in a sad world where no one trusts each other anymore at all.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I was just thinking about this in relation to Halloween candy, we live in a sad world where no one trusts each other anymore at all.

The Halloween candy thing is wild. Have you ever checked out Snopes on the topic? We have some seriously bizarre urban legends/cultural myths about Halloween candy.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
The Halloween candy thing is wild. Have you ever checked out Snopes on the topic? We have some seriously bizarre urban legends/cultural myths about Halloween candy.

My MIL is nuts about Halloween candy safety, I find it so bizarre.


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lach* 

It is easy to romanticize the "good old days" when kids had a lot less supervision... but kids did frequently get very hurt. Just reading old children's books and you come across characters who drown or lose legs or suffer really severe accidents while playing.


You say that like these things never happen anymore. It is a dangerous idea to assume that if you just watch kids all the time, nothing bad will happen to them. If you take that idea, then if something does happen, it is the parent's (teacher's, etc.) fault. There will always be accidents. I broke my arm during "naptime" when I was four. Stuff happens. Accepting the idea that every accident can be prevented is what is making this country crazy.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Another point... kids lost arms/legs in farming accidents. Most kids no longer grow up on farms, and thus no longer have the risks of farm machinery. But let me assure you that kids still occasionally loose arms/legs/etc to farm machinery. I knew at least a couple kids who lost arms/legs due to them when I was a kid in school growing up in rural Ohio. And at least once a year or so theres some other kid who lost an arm/leg/what-have-you in the paper. It still happens - just not to most kids who don't live on farms.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:

You say that like these things never happen anymore. It is a dangerous idea to assume that if you just watch kids all the time, nothing bad will happen to them. If you take that idea, then if something does happen, it is the parent's (teacher's, etc.) fault. There will always be accidents. I broke my arm during "naptime" when I was four. Stuff happens. Accepting the idea that every accident can be prevented is what is making this country crazy.










This past summer I was riding bikes with my DD and a playmate, both 4 y/o's. Of course both wore bike helmets. Friend thought it was fun to run his bike into DD. I told friend several times not to do that and explained why: you could knock her over, you could fall yourself, yadda yadda. He totally ignored me. Then he ran into her again and he did fall straight over right onto his head. This happened directly in front of me. I am thankful that he had his helmet on and he didn't get hurt although he was freaked a bit -- which I was not that unhappy about. I think he learned the natural consequence of running your bike into someone else's bike and has not done that since. But me being there, RIGHT THERE, made no difference at all.

I'm pretty laid back and yes, OP, I've noticed the same thing. My DD has an adventurous spirit, which I admire, and yes, she has been hurt a few times although nothing serious. Once we ended up in the ER because she jumped off of a rock and cut her head. Luckily they used biological glue so it was non-traumatic. But I did not feel guilty or freaked by the fact that it happened. I figure that's part of life. I don't dismiss danger but I don't think we can escape all danger.


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## fairymom (Sep 15, 2008)

I was only this way with DS(5) but as a lo if he fell and hit his head hard enough to cry he'd end up holding his breath till he passed out and would have mini-siezures (side note: he ended up needing glasses and once he had these the siezures stopped. and no he was not breath holding on purpose!). So I'd follow his around to make sure he didn't hit his head- but I so regret even doing that ever....It took forever to break that cycle and he learned mom would always be. right. there. to monitor him so he never learned any self control or how to play well w/others. It's only been over the past 1.5 years I've been able to let go and he has SO totally bloomed in that time!

This also reminds me of how my parents raised my lil bro (9 yr younger than me)- I was a free range kid (was going to the local park alone at 5-3/4 blks away, riding my bike to Kindergarten alone- almost a mile, and playing on well used rail road tracks w/the neighborhood kids.) living in the city. My brother on the other hand always had someone right.there.at.every.move. He never learned to swim, didn't learn to ride a bike till he was a teen, all because no one was there to "catch" him or encourage him to take his own chances. And now at 25 he still lives at home w/my step-dad. And my mom wonders what she/they did wrong. She sees this a lot w/adult children of his generation. So obiviously it's not a new parenting techinque! But one that's already been proven to not be beneifical at all in the long run.

I was given space as a child and want to give my children the same. Yes times are very different- there's no way I'd ever let my Kindergarten ride to school alone (even though the school is at the end of the block), but I feel as long as I help to teach them how to be SAFE and make decsions and fall down they'll come to learn what is best and safe for them and know themselves better than me.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

I havent read all the replies.

I just wanted to say that I think its unfair to pass judgement on someone else whose situation youve only caught a mere glimpse of.

You would probably consider me hovering if you saw me with my two at the park. But honestly, I dont care if you or anyone else thinks Im hovering to much. Im trying to keep my kids safe from injury. Do I expect them to get hurt? Sure. But if I see them doing something that could cause a trip to the ER, im going to redirect them. Period. Or if my 3 year old is chucking woodchips, Im gonna remind him how rude that is. If my Two year old is cutting infront of another child on the slide, Im going to instruct him to wait his turn. Call me neurotic, I dont really care.

Personally, I think its great that parents are actually spending time with thier children in a PARK rather then plopping them down infront of a TV or video game. There is way to much of THAT going on in this day and age.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peony* 
Did you know sneezing at the table while eating breakfast can cause a child to whack their head so hard on the table that teeth fly everywhere?









I work with a guy whose 4 year old son dropped his fork while at the dinner table, bent over to get it and bumped his head. Didn't even cry.

After a day of vommitting and dizziness, they found out he had a concusion. Who knew?







.

I would like to add that while I hover over my children at the plyaground, both indoor and outdoor, I try to encourage them to climb, run, jump, while I am right there. I feel this enables them to grow strurdy and strong in their bodies, and if there is an injury that requires attention, I am right there to assist. But someday I completly expect them to be riding their bikes to the park without me (







) and I want them to be armed with as much experience as possible, both safety wise, and propper ettiquette.

Ok, my







is over.


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## lifeismello (Feb 27, 2014)

I really can't stand helicopter parents or hover parenting, or whatever they call it nowadays.

Kids are kids - they want to run, play, be creative, get dirty. How will we ever allow kids to be themselves if we are always over their shoulders giving them directions? Let me just say that I played outside, climbed trees, went down the slide backwards, messed around, got dirty, got bruised and scraped and cut... And I turned out FINE.


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