# I expect my kids to obey me



## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Yes I do. BUT I have never let that expectation lead to my feeling that I have a right to hit them. And I don't even really feel a need to punish them and I use relatively few consequences.

My kids do indeed meet my expectations, at least most of the time.

So why do people think they have to hit their kids, or (OMG) hot sauce them, or inflict suffering on them of any kind? Its not only wrong, but in most cases with most kids not even necessary to get the result that these people want.


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## andi_3k (Oct 22, 2002)

because they don't know any better I think. Or they think it won'tr work. I know all of you have opened my eyes to better ways of doing things than yelling and the perpetual time outs.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

I think that for a lot of people, spanking is a heat-of-the-moment reaction. Especially people who were spanked as kids. I think that it's seen as such a "normal" thing. You see it all the time, and I think that a lot of people just don't see anything wrong with it. It's quick, it's a release of anger, and it tends to get results in the short-term, because people are impatient, and they want results NOW. A friend of mine told me one time that she spanks her child because she's already tried everything else and it's the only thing that works. That time-outs, redirection, and all of the other GD "tactics" just don't work with her child. I think that a lot of people feel the same way, and want to give up on GD because they don't see results immediately. Yes, spanking will get you immediate results, but at what cost? Yes, I may have to redirect my toddler a hundred times a day, but I do so knowing that in the long run, it will be worth it. I could not imagine how I would feel if my child were only obeying me out of fear -- it would break my heart to think that my relationship with her had disintigrated to that level. Unfortunately, though, a lot of people just don't see it that way.









As for hot saucing, I would guess that it's pretty much on the same level. It's nothing more than an abuse of power to inspire good behavior through fear.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

For me, I don't know which is more frightening- people (and I have been one in the past) who just sort of lose it and swat a child in the hear of the moment, or people like the Pearls and their followers who seem to have some sort of system in place for hitting children- a well-thought-out, well-planned scary little system.
Annette


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby*
I think that for a lot of people, spanking is a heat-of-the-moment reaction. Especially people who were spanked as kids.

Very true, esp. in my case. I have lost it a couple times with my dd. Swatted her with my hand through her thick training pants and shorts. I think it scared and hurt me more than it did her.

I was severely abused as a child. There were wooden switches behind every door in our house for easy swatting. I had bruises and welts and sometimes broken skin on my legs, as well as the mental and verbal abuse that went on. (I was subjected to hot sauce, too, and soap.)

I had vowed to be a spank-free household. When I started swatting I took it as a sign to get help. We took dd to a child psychologist and got some great tips on how to work with her. She has some issues that put her above and beyond the typical child, and a lot of good parenting methods just don't work with her.

I forgive myself because I know that I was dealing with a lot on my plate when it happened. Luckily children forgive very easily.

Darshani


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

So why do people think they have to hit their kids, or (OMG) hot sauce them, or inflict suffering on them of any kind? Its not only wrong, but in most cases with most kids not even necessary to get the result that these people want.
I have given this a lot of thought, mostly because *hitting* is what comes naturally to me.

I think a huge reason people are so likely to hit is because nothing else works. But, why does nothing else work? Well, a lot of the time, imo, because in the back of their minds "well, I can always spank if he doesnt ___whatever___ right now." If there is NO option of spanking, you're going to eventually come up with a lot of other possible ways to handle things. If spanking is possible and easy, you're going to latch onto that.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
For me, I don't know which is more frightening- people (and I have been one in the past) who just sort of lose it and swat a child in the hear of the moment, or people like the Pearls and their followers who seem to have some sort of system in place for hitting children- a well-thought-out, well-planned scary little system.
Annette

sorry, what are you refering to? *wondering*


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

The Pearls authored a truly horrendous book called To Train Up a Child that advocates (among other things) whipping babies.
Annette


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Yes, I think a lot of times people don't know there's other options. Or they see non-spanking families who are very permissive and don't want out-of-control kids - I find it's a rare breed who don't spank/punish yet still discipline their children...we're so conditioned to see spanking as "discipline" that when you take spanking away a lot of people just do nothing instead. It's tough to parent and not spank or punish. We are non-punitive and honestly, it's hard. The urge to hit does (unfortunately) come to me, and I have to battle that rather than give in. Like Tired said, though, once I decided to NEVER spank I had to come up with other options and that angry urge came a lot less often.

But yes, it is absolutely possible to expect your children to obey and be non-spanking/non-punitive. And although it's hard, it's definitely worth it!


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## Schrody (Mar 11, 2003)

Unfortunately Pearl does recommend switching babies. From that evil, evil man's book:

_One of our girls who developed mobility early had a fascination with crawling up the stairs. At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.
_

He adds that after four or five beatings, she still tried to climb the stairs. So they put the switch on the bottom stair and she was apparently already so deeply frightened of even the sight of it that she never tried to climb the stairs again. You can read more of the book here, but I highly recommend you don't or you'll feel sick for the rest of the day.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Schrody*
Unfortunately Pearl does recommend switching babies. From that evil, evil man's book:

_One of our girls who developed mobility early had a fascination with crawling up the stairs. At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.
_

He adds that after four or five beatings, she still tried to climb the stairs. So they put the switch on the bottom stair and she was apparently already so deeply frightened of even the sight of it that she never tried to climb the stairs again. You can read more of the book here, but I highly recommend you don't or you'll feel sick for the rest of the day.


OMG! How about watching a FOUR MONTH OLD so that this never is an issue. How about putting a gate at the bottom of the stairs if you really can't. These people are loco. Thanks for doing the reading so I don't have to. It would make me sick!


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I think there is a difference betw. "expectations" and "obedience." I have expectations for my kid's behavior--they are goals to work towards (politeness, consideration, etc.). Lots of things work in getting us there: modeling, explaining, encouraging, discouraging, physically intervening.

But to strive toward obedience sets me up for failure. If he doesn't do exactly what I say, then what? I get more and more demanding and threatening with consequences. And then those consequences start to escalate and hitting seems to be the "big guns" that gets pulled out. Yes, he will stop, but he feels like crap and so do I.

The mindset of obedience just seems to set me up for a big power struggle--one that our spirited, stubborn personalities don't do well with. So, I wonder if other families end up there as well and resort to hitting and hot saucing b/c nothing else is getting the kids to obey.

Dar once said, "If obedience is not the goal then disobedience is not an issue." That mindset helps me get away from the "one right answer" "do it, or else" mentality.

Lastly, I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT THE PEARLS ARE BEING DEFENDED IN THE GENTLE DISCIPLINE FORUM OF MDC! Maybe he's not "angry or beating them" but he is still HITTING THEM! Hitting. Hitting with WHIPS! Babies. Small children. WHIPS! WHIPS with padded handles for the parents comfort!

Those people are scum of the earth child abusers. Lots of people turn out "OK" IN SPITE OF the abuse they've received at the hands of their parents, IT DOESN'T MAKE HITTING BABIES AND CHILDREN RIGHT! Jesus God!


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## Schrody (Mar 11, 2003)

These people are indefensible, no matter how "well" their children turned out. I've read his book in its entirety and Pearl's method is completely abusive and cruel. Just because he commits evil with a calm smile on his face doesn't make it less evil.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

monkey's mom said:


> I think there is a difference betw. "expectations" and "obedience." I have expectations for my kid's behavior--they are goals to work towards (politeness, consideration, etc.).
> 
> ITA


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

No, I'm not after my children 'obeying' me.

I want _co-operation_ between all family members, which leads to family harmony. And then co-operation with other people and an understanding of what constitutes socially acceptable behaviour.

I see it as a two-way street, I try to co-operate with my children too.

This is topical for us, as dd told me this morning that if I couldn't talk kindly to her and hurt her feelings, I'd have to go to play somewhere away from her in a different room. (I'd told her that a crate she wanted wasn't safe to put toys in, and she interpreted me saying no as being unkind.)









When it comes to safety, eg with the crate, there are times that my word is final, but even then, I don't expect obedience. The word 'obey' is not in my parenting vocabulary. I strive to have them understand my reasoning and co-operate with me. In fact, ten minutes later dd told me she understood why I'd said no, and we talked about other solutions.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

My kids are older and I have never adjusted my expectations. (Although as DD became a "tween" I began to negotiate things outside of the house more) I expect obediance. Do I get it. Yes about 98 percent of the time. That is ennough for me. If I don't get it, I don't say its ok. I say "I did not like it when you....." I stand firm in what I am asking. The only thing I don't do is punish if they don't obey.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

I don't think it's closeminded to reject someone's viewpoint when you don't agree with it. I see Pearl's side, and it makes me angry and upset. To me the only value in trying to understand him is to be able to better convince people to stay away from him.


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## momnloveit (May 28, 2002)

I think a lot of parents expect their kids to disobey them.

I hate when I'm around other parents and I feel thier discipline tactics having an impact on me. I wish I was more confident in my way of at least TRYING to be gentle and positive with my children. For some reason, when I see others being authoritarian, I think, "Maybe I'm being too lax with my kids" Sometimes I even try their techniques and its so stupid! Can't I see how positive my relationship with my kids is? I think for the general population, people don't like being around their kids so their kids act up to get attention. So then they go through a series of tactics to get their kids to behave which their kids don't respond to cause there's not really a positive relationship so they end up hurting their kids. I think it is pretty sad. Plus I think people (including me somethimes) only want their kids to be obedient cause they're worried about what other people think. I hate it when I catch myself in that state of mind cause when I act on it, it ALWAYS has a negative effect on the relationship.

I like the idea of cooperation over obedience. I'd say that's more of my expectation. I expect my kids to make a positive contribution to family life and for everyone to be respectful of each other. Expecting obedience for the sake of being the "boss" kinda makes me sick.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TreeLove*
Just wondering if people here are more concerned with the short-term or long-term...

Well, if we were more concerned with the short-term I think we'd been punitive parents, b/c those methods do seem to work short-term...that's a little unfair to imply we care only about short-term results b/c I think GD parents work so hard and often *don't* see immediate results!

And just FYI, the guideline for the GD are at the sticky at the top of the page...here's an excerpt, as I'm sure you're wondering why we are responding so passionately! We are here for support in GD endeavors, not to feel like we have to defend ourselves...of course you are allowed your personal opinion about corporal punishment, just realize this is not the forum for it and it will likely be edited out...

"Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children. Personal preferences for and encouragement of use of physical punishment are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed."

And, FYI, also, since you mentioned Godly - it is absolutely possible to raise Godly children w/o punishment of *any* kind. Check out www.gentlemothering.com for more info. I resent that you imply I do not care about my child's long-term behaviour, their spirituality, and that my child won't be a joy to me b/c I'm worried about how *my* behaviour is affecting her.


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## Raven67 (Apr 20, 2002)

Well, I agree with the OP that having matter-of-fact expectations that your kids will mind is key, BUT, I think that only goes so far. It will work well IF you have fairly easy going, mellow kids, and your household (or the parents) is not incredibly stressed out. So, I think the child's temperment, and the parents' situational stress also play a role. If you have an easy-going kid and a good life, role modelling and high expectations will probably be all you need. I think there are decent people who get caught up in spanking and punishing, in part because they are dealing with a highly demanding kid, and/or they are under too much stress to do anything else. Not saying those things are good excuses to hit, I'm just describing what I have seen. Some kids are more challenging than others. Sometimes parents under stress lose it, when they wouldn't if life had turned out differently.

I don't know about the OP's circumstances, so it's not like I'm saying, "well, your kids are easy, or you have no stress." I am only making a general observation about the households I have seen that can maintain a "spank free" environment without having to work extra, extra hard. I think it's a combination of factors: education, attitude, expectations, child's temperment, stress, and the parent's own upbringing. I am really, really hoping I fall into the easy, no-spank catagory, when my daughter is older.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya43*
My kids are older and I have never adjusted my expectations. I expect obediance. Do I get it. Yes about 98 percent of the time.

Talking about obedience makes me think of my brother and his trainees... he's an Air Force TI and obedience is big there. It really makes me shudder to imagine living like that, but that's just my perception.

I expect cooperation, as BritishMom said. I expect consideration and politeness, as Monkey's Mom said. The difference between expecting these things and expecting obedience is that these things work both ways - obedience is a one-way street. In life, I think developing these skills is more valuable than learning to obey... unless you plan to join the Air Force and listen to my brother yell at you about the way you've folded your shirts, which is always an option, I guess.

And I get these things (cooperation, consideration, politeness) at least 98% of the time, too, now, and I'm okay with that, and if I don't I sometimes let it go and sometimes express my displeasure. I'd like to say that I give these things to my daughter 100% of the time, but but wouldn't be true...

I have a queston, though. How does expecting obedience work when you're wrong? I know as a parent, there are many times when what I want done and how I want it done has been wrong, and if my kid just obeyed we'd have been in deep kimchee. Sometimes I get straightened out when she mentions an objection, and other times we really have to discuss it before I realize how I'm making a mistake. If she had just obeyed, though, I'd have been out of luck.

Dar


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:

by the way, my 11 month old obeys me and has since 6-7 months. When I say "No" she stops. She doesn't try to pull my hair, smack my face, pinch me, rip my glasses off, or touch outlets. I have 2 bookcases filled with book in th living room and she does not pull all the books off the shelf.
OMG your poor baby.

I wonder what it's like to live with parents who are more concerned with "peace" (i.e. being obeyed & having their glasses & books left alone) than about your developmental need to explore.







:

6-7 months!!!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
I have a queston, though. How does expecting obedience work when you're wrong? I know as a parent, there are many times when what I want done and how I want it done has been wrong, and if my kid just obeyed we'd have been in deep kimchee. Sometimes I get straightened out when she mentions an objection, and other times we really have to discuss it before I realize how I'm making a mistake. If she had just obeyed, though, I'd have been out of luck.

Dar


First of all, I have a "listen once policy. So if I say. "Pick up your toys" and they say "No! I have them out to work on my school project" I would listen and prob would say. "OK, but put them away before bed." But once I have listened and rejected their reason, I am done. What they will hear from me is "Put away your toys" and that's it.

I should note thatI did not make it clear that while this applies totally with my younger two (ages 7 and 9). With my 11 1/2 year old when it comes to things that effect her outside our home (like her clothing, where she goes, what she does) I feel that there needs to be more negotiation, as she starts the process of working torwards adulthood.

What if I am wrong? Well, that's ok. I feel I am the best person to make decisions for my young kids. I do the best I can and don't really worry about being "wrong" Since there are few consequences in our house to NOT obeying, I feel comfortable with this. I have never felt in 11 years of parenting that a "mistake" turned into any disaster.


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## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *monkey's mom*

Lastly, I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT THE PEARLS ARE BEING DEFENDED IN THE GENTLE DISCIPLINE FORUM OF MDC! Maybe he's not "angry or beating them" but he is still HITTING THEM! Hitting. Hitting with WHIPS! Babies. Small children. WHIPS! WHIPS with padded handles for the parents comfort!

Those people are scum of the earth child abusers. Lots of people turn out "OK" IN SPITE OF the abuse they've received at the hands of their parents, IT DOESN'T MAKE HITTING BABIES AND CHILDREN RIGHT! Jesus God!

I was thinking the exact same thing. I did not heed the warning and clicked the link and read every horrifying word of it. He describes "training sessions" where parents place forbidden things in close reach of children and babies so to train them not to touch them! THen when the child OF COURSE touches the item, the parents "thump" their children's hands. In another example of when a father is training his 12 month old to come when told if the child doesn't come when told ( and of course the child is placed in a situation where he is immersed in a toy) the child is spanked.

What gets me the most from this "Training" is that children and BABIES!!! are continually placed in situations that they will "fail" and that they will be need to be punished by their parents. grrrr

And yes, I believe that the children become poor submissive children, not out of their own will, but by fear, and fear alone. What happens when the fear of not getting physically harmed is not there???? Will they still "Behave"? I've witnessed these types of children irl too. They behave well and are the model of a well behaved child. But they have NO SPIRIT!!! THey don't make choices and they don't take risks as adults. THis is not my wish for my child. But I guess Im different because I don't wish for my child to BEHAVE.

I want my child to make the right choices because it makes him feel good about himself and that he feels "right with himself" NOT because he fears me and fears what I might do to him if he doesn't comply with my demands.


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## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TreeLove*
She is developing wonderfully, Thank you. I have also had 4 different child developmentalist say that they "love the way she explores. She's so interested in everything. The way she explores is textbook!" She is allowed to explore anything that is not a safety concern, or invading someone else's right to not be hurt. She is not allowed to cause irreperable damage to our glasses in the name of "developement". She has a few boundries. Just as you or anyone living in the free world does. Can you run a red light if it "feels right" to you? Of course not-YOU MIGHT HURT SOMEONE. same here. I'm done here. This is why I rarely come to mothering.com. Many of you hit below the belt and do not RESPECT others. I certainly kept my language and demeanor respectfully.Keep doing what you are doing-hitting your head against a brick wall, you are only hurting yourself, your children, and your spouses, in the name of love, respect, peace, and cooperation. I wish you all the best of luck. If any of you feel that this ISN'T working email me. I'd be glad to share my exp of the last 7 years.

Goodbye!

Goodbye and good luck to you too! I'm sorry you feel that the moms here are not being respectful. But if you look at the sticky at the top of the forum like another poster mentioned you will see that what you are discussing is actually not allowed here. THis is a Gentle discipline forum where the discussion of hitting physical punishment is not allowed. THis is a forum to find OTHER WAYS besides physical punishment to better enjoy our children.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I don't entirely get this thread but it seems like the OP was in response to the suggestion that kids won't "obey" if we don't hit, punish or use consequences with them.

I also disagree with this assumption. I will say, because I mentioned consequences recently on a similar thread, that I don't 'use' consequences ~ they just exist. I do help my child understand the connection between her actions and the consequences.

Sometimes it seems like we're discussing semantics, no? Not that I don't enjoy that...I do, thus, I'm here!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Ah!! I did read the thread but missed one post...

I saw a good post here a while ago about abused children who grew up "fine". The poster asked them to reconsider if they grew up okay *because* or *in spite* of how they were disciplined.

I just posted the discipline "tool" that we use ~ consequences. My child is also very wonderful, LOL! To be honest, I have a hard time taking credit for it...


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

I like what everyone's saying about cooperation etc. vs. obedience. Like ICM said, a lot is semantics, but I *do* really like thinking of it that way better, thanks! I don't say things to my child just so she will obey me and not think for herself, far from it! I think, however, what I was thinking as far as the original post, is that it is very possible to have obedient children (NOT compliant!!! I maintain a difference between those words - so often we associate compliance with obedience...) w/o hitting or punishments...I have encountered people who think that's impossible, or (as a Christian) that I'm being unbiblical.







Consideration, politeness, cooperation - I like those words better than obedience...but, I still think my child is being obedient, not compliant, when I ask her to pick up her toys, SWIM? I can now see how cooperative might fit there better, but I do not see saying that as on par with "blind obedience" or "obedience/compliance" like we talk about with a dog...does that make sense?

Basically what I'm saying is, I don't see "obedience" as a bad word - I think a lot of times we associate it with "first-time obedience" (UGH!) or "compliance." HOWEVER, I think there are more precise words to describe our childrens' actions and what we expect...thanks for making me think.


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

I'm sorry you find me narrow-minded - but can *you* understand why people might get upset? - this is a safe haven (as made clear in the rules I posted) for learning more about gentle discipline. You ARE defending Pearl - read your posts...you said "how can you call the methods evil if they produced good fruit"...and you also said you used one of his methods...that's great you didn't use a switch, but I don't think I'm being presumtuous in that you use corporal punishment. I seriously doubt that someone who didn't use corporal punishment would defend his methods, SWIM? His methods are EXTREME - baiting a baby in order to punish them? Most "spanking experts" don't advocate it until 18 mos. or so, and (warning: graphic) - he advocates whipping a 4 mos. with plumbing tubing (yes, he goes into details of the length and size it should be. And that IS a fact)!!!

Again, I'm truly sorry I offended you by getting on the "angry-mama band wagon" - but I *am* angry, and you have offended me, too, by assuming I don't care about the long-term actions of my child.

I do not come here to "see both sides" of Pearls' methods, I come for support and to learn more about GD. If that's narrow-minded, I accept the label. As far as being rude - thanks for telling me I'm hitting my head against a brick wall if I use GD!


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

TreeLove,

If you can't see how defending the Pearls is totally inappropriate here, then I'm glad you don't come here often.

ETA: Holy [email protected]! You're even pimping their methods!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TreeLove*
If any of you feel that this ISN'T working email me. I'd be glad to share my exp of the last 7 years.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)




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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Odd way to say "Goodbye to MDC, I'm no longer AP" I guess. At least there is no *anger* there


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## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

"That doesn't CLUE you in that maybe AP creates selfishness and self indulgent behavior?"

this statement I would like to address in case there is a new mama on this board reading this thread.
I have four children aged 16, 10, 7, and turning 5, besides them I have also raised to adulthood my dh's lil bro (and our family homeschools too)

I have found that some children are simply high needs and that is not a result of their parenting as infants, but it is the result of their personality they are born with & any health issues. AP parenting does not create high needs infants and children that turn into bratty kids.
Instead AP techniques help the high needs dc to calm and develop a bond with their parent or primary caretaker. They teach the child they are valued and loved and in turn the child reflects that energy back into the relationship with their trusted parent and also out into the world as they begin to develop natural friendships.
As a mom







over 40- with a large family & having been a caretaker & teacher to many children outside my own family, I think I am also a BTDT kind of parent and I am speaking from my personal experience and my observations of Mothering over the last 4 years online here.
Children raised with gentleness, tenderness, peace, and love in their family will grow into caring, respectful, trusting, secure, and empathetic adults. I have seen this in my home with my own children. I have seen this in the families I have met here.

It is about creating a harmony in your home, treelove -- GD or AP does not mean a child run home where adults are running around as exhausted servants. Sometimes Mamas come here that are tired and need to vent, they need reassurance that the effort they are putting into creating this bond is worth it. If you look through the archives you will see more information on how to use gentle discipline in your home.

if anyone wants my opinion







It really really is worth it. The best investment in your children is the time you spend with them in AP things as infants and toddlers. GD works.

My kids obey me when I make a request of them, not because they fear me or because I might do something negative, but because they LIKE to obey. They all understand I do not make requests without some reason for doing so and I honor their requests just as respectfully. I screw up sometimes and so do they and because of the AP bond we can forgive each other easily and move on through our day.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TreeLove*
I finally decided to put my house in order. I now have what you are still looking for. I hope you find it, I really do. I just sincerely doubt that it's here.

I'm pretty sure you don't have what I'm looking for.

Ya know, it's really hard to have young children, and to parent them gently and respectfully. I remember those days. I was exhausted a lot of the time, just like a lot of the mamas with young children who post here. But I don't see them as generally unhappy or anxious or tearful, although at times I think people feel that way. Generally, though, I get a really warm, loving, and fun feeling from most posts here. Tired, yes, but still funny and generally happy with life. That's one of the reasons I like it here - it feels good to me, and the women here are women I want to have around me.

And I didn't end up with an over-indulged, selfish child - I ended up with a child who saw thoughtfulness modeled and became thoughful, and who saw respect modeled and became respectful, and who saw a commitment to cooperative problem solving modeling and became committed to cooperatively solving problems. It's really, really cool... and TreeLove, I'm sorry that you didn't stick with attachment parenting long enough to see the results.

Dar, having a really good day....


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## canadiyank (Mar 16, 2002)

You know, I really am sorry to contribute any negativity to this thread.







I just get worked up when I feel like all day long I defend myself - against friends who don't understand EBF, parents who think I should CIO, a church that gossips b/c I don't spank (and that can't be like Jesus!), people who wonder why I'm going to a (gasp!) birth center and don't want to use drugs for this next birth, who think I'm overworking myself by CDing (won't they be shocked to find I'm considering EC for the next one), or endangering the world by delaying/selectively vaxing, and yes, against *myself* for having doubts about my parenting. Sure, it's exhausting, hard work. But I honestly think it's worth it - I have struggled with depression since before dd was born and I can finally say I *do* feel joy in parenting...and that I'm looking forward to parenting my new baby. This is big for me. I am so glad I stumbled across AP and non-punitive parenting - it has changed me and my family for the better. But to feel like I come here and have to defend my practices on a board that's created to *support* my ideals...well, that's just hard to handle.
















mamas


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## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

temporarily closing this thread to posting
~ pam


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