# Unbelievable



## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

Yesterday I was driving home on a 35mph road. A Cadillac Escalade pulled in front of me (totally fine, lots of room) but as they did I noticed the male passenger had a young child (not older then 2) sitting on his lap. O.K. I realize I live in po-dunk South Carolina but seriously people it's still illegal! I mean these people in the SUV might not know all the details of car seat safety and erf etc. but I know they know that driving with a child on your lap is against the law!

So fast forward to today. My DH and I were stuck in traffic b/c of a middle of the day head on collision and one of the vehicles involved was a Cadillac Escalade! Not the same color but I instantly thought of the child from yesterday and it made me instantly woozy. The road today had a max. speed of 45mph but I'm guessing they were going slower b/c there was a lot of traffic and the SUV was totaled; front end totally smashed with all the airbags deployed and broken windows. Simply horrifying, both situations!


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

That is really disturbing. I see it a lot here, too, in the Washington, DC area. It completely baffles me. The people who do this probably love their children - why on earth do they put them at such risk? It's the leading cause of death among children!


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## juju's mom (Mar 30, 2005)

So sad. We see it here too in Boston.


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## nerdymom (Mar 20, 2008)

wow I have never seen that but wow, how negligent. I would call the police. Not 911 but the local county office. That is really too serious not to report.


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## boysmom2 (Jan 24, 2007)

I've seen it - several of DH's aunts and uncles don't use car seats/boosters/seatbelts for their kids. I even had my brother (who was a cop at the time) talk to them and tell them about some of the gruesome accidents he's responded to, but no change. And I know these people love their children. I just don't get it.


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## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

I thought about calling police but A. I would have had to remember the plate # long enough to pull over safely (and I have serious sleep-deprived-mommy-brain) B. I'd call and report it but I assure you there aren't great enough funds for the police dept. to track the car down or make a home visit and honestly I've seen police driving in their official vehicles without seat belts so I'm not sure car safety is high on anyones list around here! It is truly shocking, I feel like I'm in a third world country in regards to car safety sometimes.


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## Katsmamajama (Jun 24, 2009)

Insanity. I can't imagine why some people do that, regardless.


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## LittleBlessings (May 26, 2008)

that is so sad


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

They probably remember their childhood memories of sitting in their parents' lap to "help drive" and want to give their child a similar memory.

(one of those--well, my parents did it with me and I'm fine)


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

My best friend is a large SUV driver. She thinks that because her car is so large and therefore obviously safe she is taking her 6 year old out of his booster when he starts school. Maybe they have the same - larger vehicle= no problem attitude.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

The other day, I saw a pick-up truck pull out onto a major 4 lane road (lots of red lights, turning lanes running thru a 5 mile long commercial area) with a little boy of about 4 kneeling on the center consol between a man and a woman.

I could tell he was kneeling on the center consol because my husband has the same model truck, meaning I know the kid wasn't in a seat.

Unfortunately, I see things like this regularly. I live in an area where a good chunk of the population willfully resists government telling them how they should live their lives.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Caneel* 
The other day, I saw a pick-up truck pull out onto a major 4 lane road (lots of red lights, turning lanes running thru a 5 mile long commercial area) with a little boy of about 4 kneeling on the center consol between a man and a woman.

I could tell he was kneeling on the center consol because my husband has the same model truck, meaning I know the kid wasn't in a seat.

Unfortunately, I see things like this regularly. I *live in an area where a good chunk of the population willfully resists government telling them how they should live their lives*.











Where do you live? Sounds like a great place to be.


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## chirp (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Caneel* 
The other day, I saw a pick-up truck pull out onto a major 4 lane road (lots of red lights, turning lanes running thru a 5 mile long commercial area) with a little boy of about 4 kneeling on the center consol between a man and a woman.

I could tell he was kneeling on the center consol because my husband has the same model truck, meaning I know the kid wasn't in a seat.

Unfortunately, I see things like this regularly. *I live in an area where a good chunk of the population willfully resists government telling them how they should live their lives.*

i'm with vbactivist on this one. sounds like a great place to live!!!

of course, not concerning people disregarding children's safety...but as pposts suggest--that happens everywhere. willfull resistance though? that's hard to come by!!

to add to the the op...i live in an area where most of the people are from Mexico (immigrants...and their first generation children). many of them do not use carseats regularly. and most do not use carseats for children over the age of 2(? or so?). i'm not sure they even know it's the law.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chirp* 
i'm with vbactivist on this one. sounds like a great place to live!!!

of course, not concerning people disregarding children's safety...but as pposts suggest--that happens everywhere. willfull resistance though? that's hard to come by!!

.

Not to threadjack too much but I struggle with this. I feel our liberties being taken away day by day- our founding fathers never meant for us to be so deep in legislation controlling our everyday choices- and yet I'm a car seat safety fanatic and get all heated when I see scenarios like the OP's!


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## butterfly_mommy (Oct 22, 2007)

I saw this yesterday as we were driving home on highway 401 (a major provincial highway) were the limit is 100 KPH (62 MPH) and I saw a mini van from Quebec pass us at 120 KPH (75 MPH) with a child sitting on the lap of someone in the second row. I was trying to get their license plate # to call the police but we couldn't catch up to them. So sad when people make really unsafe choices for their children.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chirp* 
i'm with vbactivist on this one. sounds like a great place to live!!!

of course, not concerning people disregarding children's safety...but as pposts suggest--that happens everywhere. willfull resistance though? that's hard to come by!!


Willful resistance might have been too strong of a statement but _plenty_ of people are of the "keep government out of my church, off my guns, and out of my family" mindset.

I ment willful resistance in the sense that they refuse to wear seatbelts and "let the cops _try_ to give me a ticket" and "if I want to shoot deer on my land out of season, that is my right" Driving down the road drinking a beer, that time of thing.

Oh, and refusing to comply with sewage disposal regulations. That is a biggie right now. Outhouses are poluting the neighboring wells and people are sitting in county jail for refusing to put in holding tanks.


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## Serenyd (Jan 6, 2008)

My DP and I were driving down the road and saw a pickup truck with two little girls in the back, looked about 3 & 4 yrs old. We reported the license # but didn't get much of response, and the next week, I saw them again!!! Argh!


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## Serenyd (Jan 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
They probably remember their childhood memories of sitting in their parents' lap to "help drive" and want to give their child a similar memory.

(one of those--well, my parents did it with me and I'm fine)

Yeah, my dad did that with me too - IN THE DRIVEWAY!!! and it was way cool without endangering my life.


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## Kim Allen (Jun 28, 2008)

We live in a really small rural town and I see this almost everyday.







The police dont seem to do anything about it. County cops are the worse. If I need anything done I will definantly call Highway Patrol around here. The most unbelivable one was a woman (who drives very recklessly) breastfeeding a newborn while driving. I see her time to time and she still does this and the baby is probably close to a yr old now. She has other children who do not ride in carseats and are usually seen standing up walking around in there minivan while she is doing this. She has been pulled over before but I guess it does not mean anything to her.


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## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

But even if you're driving safely _anything can happen! That's why people are so much safer if restrained b/c you never know what or when something will happen.

Yeah, my Dad used to let me sit on his lap on our gravel road leading up to our house when I was about 6ish but not when I was 2 b/c I wouldn't have remembered it anyway and I'm fine but it was still way more dangerous then me sitting next to him in a seat belt and I haven't done that w/my 6 yo b/c we don't live on an barely-traveled back road!

All of these posts are really shocking to me b/c it really only takes a little common sense but I guess people don't think of their cars as being large dangerous killing machines like I do!







_


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## mesa (Aug 19, 2006)

Last weekend I saw a pickup towing a ski boat on a trailer, that was loaded down with about 12 kids of all ages. On the HIGHWAY.


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

ds and i went to wendys the other day, and as i was getting him out of his seat, i noticed the truck parked next to us had a kid (3 or 4 maybe) jumping around while the 2 women were talking. not a big deal, since they were parked. we went in and got in line, and they ended up behind us. they had the little boy and a baby, maybe one at the oldest, but he looked closer to 9 or so months...

i was curious (and yes, i admit, im nosy) so when ds and i left, i peeked in the window of their truck, and they didnt have a seat in there for either kid!!!


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Caneel* 
Willful resistance might have been too strong of a statement but _plenty_ of people are of the "keep government out of my church, off my guns, and out of my family" mindset.

I ment willful resistance in the sense that they refuse to wear seatbelts and "let the cops _try_ to give me a ticket" and "if I want to shoot deer on my land out of season, that is my right" Driving down the road drinking a beer, that time of thing.

Oh, and refusing to comply with sewage disposal regulations. That is a biggie right now. Outhouses are poluting the neighboring wells and people are sitting in county jail for refusing to put in holding tanks.

This was so my family when I was growing up. My dad hated (and still does) the government in his personal life so he refuses to wear a seat belt and did not require any of us 6 kids to do so.
I do wear a seat belt and am on the strict side of the spectrum in terms of car seats but I do agree with my dad's philosophy. Like now it is a LAW that we have to wear bike helmets. I know many would agree with it but where does it stop? Like what about mandatory vaccines? I do not want my kids vaxxed but the majority think this could be a good thing. There was a recent case where the court forced a family to have chemo done on their son when they did not want too. What about forcing medical care? Where is the line? We CANNOT pick and choose. Like yes I want the in a booster till 8 law but I do not want a law saying I cannot intentionally freebirth? Right.


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

I just don't get this. Do people really think that cars are safe or something? I was putting my baby in my Onbu the other day to go into a store and saw a mom and dad leaving the store with two kids, maybe 15mo and 3yo. The dad opened the car door for the 3yo (I couldn't see if there was a seat or not) and the mom opened the other door, set the baby in his FFing car seat and closed the door. Two more seconds of effort and she could have BUCKLED HIM IN!!!!!!!!!!


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## major_mama11 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mesa* 
Last weekend I saw a pickup towing a ski boat on a trailer, that was loaded down with about 12 kids of all ages. On the HIGHWAY.









:

That is INSANE. Obviously all these folks never watched the highway carnage videos that I was made to watch in Drivers' Ed.


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## Keria (Sep 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristaDJ* 







I just don't get this. Do people really think that cars are safe or something?

No they are not they are the number one killer of children I don't get why anyone would put a kid in a car with or without a carseat.

I'm not advocating that people should not use seats, but live an let live, if you get sad about seeing a kid out of a carseat, then i suggest you don't go travel outside the US much most of the world does not have carseat laws therefor you will see almost every child unrestrained in a car I can only imagine that could send you into a deep depression.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristaDJ* 
...the mom opened the other door, set the baby in his FFing car seat and closed the door. Two more seconds of effort and she could have BUCKLED HIM IN!!!!!!!!!!









Maybe (just maybe) the 3 yo would buckle the younger one. My dd often buckled her younger brother at that age.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristaDJ* 







I just don't get this. Do people really think that cars are safe or something? I was putting my baby in my Onbu the other day to go into a store and saw a mom and dad leaving the store with two kids, maybe 15mo and 3yo. The dad opened the car door for the 3yo (I couldn't see if there was a seat or not) and the mom opened the other door, set the baby in his FFing car seat and closed the door. Two more seconds of effort and she could have BUCKLED HIM IN!!!!!!!!!!









Giving her the benefit of the doubt- my husband always puts my older daughter in the car seat, then gets in the front and turns around to buckle her in. Maybe she does the same?


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## Thandiwe (May 14, 2007)

Quote:

That is INSANE. Obviously all these folks never watched the highway carnage videos that I was made to watch in Drivers' Ed.
Exactly.


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## Ofwait (Feb 16, 2008)

I always load all the kids up and only after they are all in the car do I buckle them. The two little ones often from the front seat.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TropicalGirl* 
I'm not advocating that people should not use seats, but live an let live, if you get sad about seeing a kid out of a carseat, then i suggest you don't go travel outside the US much most of the world does not have carseat laws...

I have relatives by marriage in India. Most of them don't own cars and it is hard to find rear seat belts in taxis. When they visit USA, we have to remind/educate/insist on seat belt wearing.









On average, each family member drives many fewer miles than we do in the USA. My in-laws might take a taxi just a few times a year. Yet there have been many tragedies.








* A family living in California was driving late at night. Husband was tired, wife took over driving. There was an accident and the wife died, leaving behind husband and two young children. (probably no seat belt on her)
* A young couple moved back to their home city in India. They were so happy, they went (by scooter) to the bank to pick up a favorite piece of jewelry form the safe deposit box. The wife was killed in an accident. They had a young son.
* A friend's sister was divorced from her first husband after a month of marriage. A few years later she remarried, and this time she was happy and maybe even in love. A month into the marriage, her husband was on a scooter (probably no helmet) and was killed by a loose chain on a commercial truck. For cultural reasons, she is not ever expected to remarry.









In short, there are consequences to the lack of safety laws (and enforcement) in developing countries. Many of these countries have other national priorities, such as clean water or basic literacy education.


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
Giving her the benefit of the doubt- my husband always puts my older daughter in the car seat, then gets in the front and turns around to buckle her in. Maybe she does the same?

I've done it that way too, especially in cold weather, but no, I saw the parents get in, sit down and drive away. No one was ever buckled in and they were getting ready to pull out onto a very busy road with very limited visibility.
To the PP who said her 3yo buckled in her DS I just don't get that ??? My _husband_ can hardly put my baby's seatbelt on right


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristaDJ* 
I've done it that way too, especially in cold weather, but no, I saw the parents get in, sit down and drive away. No one was ever buckled in and they were getting ready to pull out onto a very busy road with very limited visibility.
To the PP who said her 3yo buckled in her DS I just don't get that ??? My _husband_ can hardly put my baby's seatbelt on right









Well, roll your eyes all you want, but she did it, did it well and it worked for us.


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## KristaDJ (May 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
Well, roll your eyes all you want, but she did it, did it well and it worked for us.

I'm sorry, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you, I was rolling them at the fact that my husband can't seem to buckle the baby in. Why are things taken in the WORST way possible








? I still don't see how a three year old can buckle in a baby in a harness that is tight enough though.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristaDJ* 
I'm sorry, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you, I was rolling them at the fact that my husband can't seem to buckle the baby in. Why are things taken in the WORST way possible







? I still don't see how a three year old can buckle in a baby in a harness that is tight enough though.

Sorry krista, I had just gotten home from a family affair... most of the people just attack me for my ideas/actions. I was in defense mode. Bella amazingly did a great job... and obviously if she couldn't, we wouldn't continue to let her.


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## jspring0308 (Jul 24, 2008)

The last handful of posts totally drive the point home. Yes most of the world doesn't have car seat laws for a number of reasons but at the same time most of the world's people don't drive the insane amount that the average American does! And having car seat laws or not it is so incredibly easy and so much safer to use restraints regardless of law!

Like a previous post my older daughter can get my infant tight in her car seat so my gosh if she can do it I can't imagine why an adult wouldn't "bother". I really think Americans need to stop and think about their child's safety when dealing with cars and people just don't take the time to think.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 









Where do you live? Sounds like a great place to be.

I'm currently visiting a country where the vast majority of the population ignores the laws, as they are rarely enforced and are considered to be inconvenient.

The result is a country with horrible air quality, polluted sea, garbage filling the streets, historic monuments stolen and even destroyed because they are in the way of the newest high-rise building, unusable beaches, devastated mountains (deforestation and mining), an absolutely sickening and heartbreaking number of traffic fatalities each year, uncontrolled urban growth turning the entire country into one big block of concrete-- I could go on, endlessly.

And it used to be one of the most beautiful countries in the world.

I'm all for civil liberties, but people who don't think government has a place in people's lives must not have ever visited countries where, for all intents and purposes, there is no government.

OP, in the country I'm visiting, many times per day I see children riding totally unrestrained in cars. And no one follows the traffic laws either, accidents are frequent and usually fatal. It makes me so sad. I've had to really stick to my guns to make sure DS is restrained in the seat that we brought for him to use. I don't understand this mentality AT ALL.


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## Keria (Sep 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jspring0308* 
The last handful of posts totally drive the point home. Yes most of the world doesn't have car seat laws for a number of reasons but at the same time most of the world's people don't drive the insane amount that the average American does! And having car seat laws or not it is so incredibly easy and so much safer to use restraints regardless of law!
.

That's beside the point honestly here we drive plenty mostly because to fill our tanks it cost us about 1,20$, but like i said it's besides the point, carseats are great and all of that, but seriously getting sad and alarmed about a child out of a carseat with all the huger, wars, genocide around the world, probably those children are happy and healthy, and being in a car at all it's dangerous I really don't understand how people who get all worked up about seeing a child unrestrained put their children in cars at all.


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## Thandiwe (May 14, 2007)

Okay, not to hijack the thread, but there was a point brought up along the way: report the said incident. I just wondered what people consider to be smart protocol for doing such a thing. Having this post fresh on my mind last night, I saw something that disturbed me deeply. We were at our local chain grocery store, and when I came out, there was a mother and son sitting in the car next to us. It appeared obvious that she was waiting for someone, and her son, who I don't even think was barely 12 mos, was in the back seat in his car seat. When I looked at him, though, I was horrified. He was in there, but the crotch clip wasn't done up, the straps were loose and dangling on his shoulders, and the chest clip was done up and hanging around his belly button. It genuinely did not look like she just loosened him while they waited or had him 1/2 undone while they waited. All signs indicated they were getting ready to leave when the person they were waiting for got back. Maybe I was wrong, but I was horrified to think of how awfully he was placed in there if they did leave. I jotted down her license plate and we drove slowly through the parking lot waiting for them to leave, but they didn't and we had to get going. I didn't really know what to do. They weren't moving, so it wasn't something that could really be cited. But my gut told me she wasn't going to do anything about it once she did get going. His shoes were untied and he looked disheveled, not very well kept. Worst of all, his eyes looked sad. But what in the world could I do about sad eyes and loosened car seat straps in a vehicle that wasn't moving??

Anyways, just wondered what others consider appropriate in situations where child seat safety isn't being respected. Who exactly do you call?


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## aeneva (Mar 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
They probably remember their childhood memories of sitting in their parents' lap to "help drive" and want to give their child a similar memory.

(one of those--well, my parents did it with me and I'm fine)

Yeah and that is fine when done in the driveway or driving through the back yard, but not down the road! Sheesh some people just don't get it. The way cars were built and the speed limits and stuff were a lot different back then. Heck I refused to take a bottle from my father (who couldn't drive due to medical restrictions) so on long car trips he would lay my head in moms lap while she drove and give me a bottle so I thought she was feeding me!


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

OP, I live in your city and there is not a day that goes by that I don't see a scenario like the one you described. Every.Single.Day. I think car seat compliance is lower in CHS than other areas. Given the 26 car pile-up on the interstate yesterday maybe it is a public health campaign that needs to happen? Lord knows I try to do part!


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

WARNING, VERY SENSITIVE POST!!!!!!









A couple weeks ago there was a rollover on the highway. We were driving the opposite direction so we saw the wreckage, toys and all







It was so bad they closed a portion of 95N, they closed I-95 N to Boston, I couldn't believe it.

Grandma, Mom, Dad, & the 3yo were all thrown from the vehicle, the infant in it's seat was NOT thrown out. Mom, Grandma, and the infant survived


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## Thandiwe (May 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aeneva* 
The way cars were built and the speed limits and stuff were a lot different back then.









When I was a baby, my mom tells stories of having to lay me on the front seat swaddled in blankets laying right on the seat. She was a broke single mom who couldn't afford to fix the heat in her car. I shudder now thinking about the risks, but times were definitely different. I'd like to think we've learned much more and are smarter for it.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

I cringe when I see people who allow their children to jump around freely in the back seat of their car while driving down the road.







I often wonder how they get away with it and don't get pulled over. I also witnessed woman with a baby on her lap, both strapped in together, in the front seat once. That was really scary.


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## darcytrue (Jan 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aeneva* 
Yeah and that is fine when done in the driveway or driving through the back yard, but not down the road! Sheesh some people just don't get it. The way cars were built and the speed limits and stuff were a lot different back then. Heck I refused to take a bottle from my father (who couldn't drive due to medical restrictions) so on long car trips he would lay my head in moms lap while she drove and give me a bottle so I thought she was feeding me!

speed limits don't always make a difference.







When I was 16 I was in a wreck on the street I lived on and I had no seatbelt on at the time, as it was not a law yet, and I weighed 85 lbs and was tossed to the other side of the car on impact, going 25 mph through my neighborhood. I was told that had I been wearing a seatbelt that it may have been fatal.







The driver hit the drivers side of my car right at my door and the front area by the engine. He even knocked the engine out of place and it was shifted to the other side.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just a reminder of the Family Safety Forum Guidelines.

Specifically:

Quote:

We ask that threads focus on safety information gathering, education, advocacy and sharing of personal experience rather than critiques of individuals or venting about others.
If anyone would care to make this into a "call to action" feel free to post in the Activism Forum.

Thanks,
TiredX2


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