# Need to vent, sad about Aunts baby



## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

This may be kind of long... but I just feel so upset about it I feel like I need to get it out!

My Aunt just had her first baby 3 weeks after I had my DS. There is a lot of background to that, but to shorten it up, the entire family was very concerned about her having a baby. Two years ago she was drugged at a bar, and almost died, she was in a coma for 2 months and was not expected to come out or survive. She did, but has many health and mental problems now, and was addicted to a lot of antidepressants and pain pills. She became *obsessed* with having a baby for some reason, and we all worried about it, since she was taking so many drugs, and has mini-strokes and severe depression.

She did wean herself off all the drugs (AND smoking) but not completely until her 2nd trimester, so we were concerned about the baby.

Then at 37 weeks ( I think) she said she was 'tired of being pregnant' and sick of 'feeling full of baby' that she drank a bunch of castor oil until it put her in labor. She had the typical pit/epi hospital birth.

My DS should have been a good six weeks older than her DD, but instead they are only 3 weeks apart. I saw her a few days after she was born and I was shocked by her appearance. She was so pale and sort of a greyish color, and she was so limp and floppy when I held her. I dont have any experience with babies other than my DS, so I hope this is just because she was early and kind of small? I think she was 17 inches and 6.1 Ibs.

I saw her yesterday for the second time, my Aunt came to visit DS & I. I think she is around 8 weeks.. and is now 21 inches and 7.2 Ibs. So she has only gained like one pound? This seems crazy to me, does this seem bad to anyone else here? She is still smaller than my DS was at birth!

I know my Aunt tried breastfeeding for a the first week or so, but she told me on the phone that she 'didnt make enough milk' so she was supplementing with formula. I told her that could be a bad idea and make her supply even lower, and offered to take her with me to an LLL meeting, but she didnt go. So a few days later she had her DD totally on formula, and I tried to be very supportive to her because she told me she had wanted to breastfeed, and I just felt sad for them both.

Also, in phone conversations over the last 2 weeks, she keeps telling me her DD 'cant poop', or has a hard time. Its almost like she is obsesed with her DD pooping... She said the poop is not hard, its still runny baby poop, but she still thinks DD is constipated, bc she cries, and 'looks' like she is trying to poop. My Aunts Pediatrician told her to give DD a little bit of juice in a bottle!! Again, I think this is nuts.... is this crazy?? I cant imagine a baby this young needs juice?? She also told me she's used suppositories (per the Ped) to get DD to poo.

So yesterday at my house, she pulls out a bottle to give to DD, and it looks like juice, so I ask what it is. She told me it was Pedialite. I have no idea if that is ok for an 8 week old... is it?? I asked her why she was giving that, and said she was worried about her DD being dehydrated from pooping so much the day before from a suppository!! I just didnt even know what to say in the moment... So her DD finished off the pedialite, and then was crying so Aunt gave her a bottle of formula. DD cried on and off while drinking it.

She is so tiny, and still has a greyish color. I held her for a while, and she is still so limp and floppy. I know you cant compare babies, because every baby is different and develops at its own rate... but its SO hard not to compare her to my DS. He is big for his age, but aside from that, he never had that floppy 'feel' to him, and it makes me so worried about the little girl. She cant hold her head up, or hold on to any toys or anything by herself, at 2 months. She still looks like a tiny newborn. She is unresponsive, and either cries or is just kind of zoned out. It makes me so sad.

Now I am wondering if maybe she is not getting enough nutrition in her bc of my Aunt always trying to get her to poop, and filling her up on pedialite and juice instead of just giving her the formula. Its just breaking my heart.

I WANT to say something to my Aunt so bad, but she is a very defensive type, and if I do, she will ignore it anyways, and then ignore me too. She did mention numerous times, especially while I was BFing my DS that she wishes she could have breastfed. I am thinking of offering her all the frozen breastmilk in my freezer.... but is that wierd?? I told her about how DS would not take a bottle the first time I had to leave him with DH last week, so I could tell her since I cant use the milk, she could have it if she wants it??? I feel like her DD could really really use the nutrition from the BM....

I am just so brokenhearted. My aunt is not the person she used to be at all... and its not her fault, she suffered a lot of brain damage from her incident. But I worry about that little girl. My aunt has barely been able to take care of HERSELF since all that first happened to her, and now she has an infant to take care of. I dont know what to do, or if I should even DO anything.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

If you suspect neglect have you called someone to just get an opinion?







It sounds like such a tough situation...and to have it be a family member must make it even harder. I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

At 8 weeks, the only thing a baby needs for hydration is breastmilk or formula.

I'm no professional on any of this, but what you write scares me that the poor baby is starving to death from pedialyte. It can't possibly have the vitamins and minerals the baby needs to survive. Think of the poor baby who starved on soy milk instead of infant formula, and call CPS!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Do you know the pediatrician's name. Maybe you could give their office a heads up and have it dealt with that way?


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

That is so sad. Is it possible she's limiting the baby's intake of formula and trying to control everything about her, like with the poop thing. I'd be really worried, you have no idea what the ped has told her, or even if she's really been. Myself I'd want to call CPS seeing she's had so many issues of her own lately, the gray color really bothers me, I had little babies, born at 6lb 9 and 37 weeks too, but by 8 weeks they had lots of color (what a pasty white baby can) and were alert. The floppiness and grayness is worrying.
I'm sure I'll get flammed for wanting to calling CPS, but the baby sounds sick/delayed/malnourished.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

It all sounds horrible, but none of it sounds CPS worthy. I mean, it's the basic carp that you hear on mainstream forums and FB statuses all the time.









BUT you keep mentioning grey and floppy. That worries me. You're right, babies can't be compared. But no babies are grey and floppy due to being different. That sounds serious.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
She did, but has many health and *mental problems* now, and was addicted to a lot of antidepressants and pain pills. ... she was taking so many drugs, and has mini-strokes and *severe depression*.

your aunt is at super high risk for post partum depression.

Quote:

I know my Aunt tried breastfeeding for a the first week or so, but she told me on the phone that she 'didnt make enough milk' so she was supplementing with formula.
I'm all for BFing and tandum nursed my kids, but in her case, it really may be best that she isn't. She can now take whatever meds she needs to be help her stay on an even keel, and she can easily leave her baby so she can get a break or go to therapy or whatever. Her mental health is more important for her and her baby than attachment parenting.

Quote:

My Aunts Pediatrician told her to give DD a little bit of juice in a bottle!!
I think it is great that she is taking her child to a doctor and following the instructions. I wouldn't contridict the advice, even though it is mainstream and not what you would do. Your aunt needs support, and that doesn't come from getting a bunch of different people telling you to do different things.

I would also trust that the doctor is monitoring the baby's health and knows what is going on.

Quote:

I just didnt even know what to say in the moment... So her DD finished off the pedialite, and then was crying so Aunt gave her a bottle of formula.
You might try reading up on "non-violent communication" skills to learn more about talking and being supportive without offering judgment.

When she comments on BF, you could say something like, "You DID bf, and the first (few days, few weeks, whatever) really are the most important. It's great that you DID bf while it was working. And now your baby is getting nutrition in a different way. The important thing is that she is eating!" Be totally positive and supportive and totally let go of how to do everything perfect because that just isn't possible.

Giving your aunt messages that she isn't doing this well enough will only make things worse for her and her baby. Find ways to encourage her and point out what she is doing right.

Quote:

She cant hold her head up, or hold on to any toys or anything by herself, at 2 months. She still looks like a tiny newborn. She is unresponsive, and either cries or is just kind of zoned out. It makes me so sad.
One of my kids has mild special needs and did everything late. It's great that the baby is being taken to a doctor. Dr. do routine screenings for developmental mile stones. I would encourage the mom to get connected to early intervention/ parents without teachers/whatever they have where you live when the time comes. And yes, it is sad when development is off. It's doesn't mean that the parent is doing something wrong.

Quote:

Now I am wondering if maybe she is not getting enough nutrition in her bc of my Aunt *always* trying to get her to poop, and filling her up on pedialite and juice instead of just giving her the formula.
But didn't this just happen this week? Do you have any reason to think that your aunt is *always* giving her juice and pedialite?

What kind of help and support is your aunt getting? What kind of help is she getting for depression? Is she on meds? Is she in weekly talk therapy? This is really where I would put my effort. Depression and PPD run in my family and I had two relatives kill themselves in the first year after having a child.

I would trust the doctor to make sure that the baby is getting proper care, and put effort into making sure that mom is also being cared for by mental health professionals.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:

I think it is great that she is taking her child to a doctor and following the instructions. I wouldn't contridict the advice, even though it is mainstream and not what you would do. Your aunt needs support, and that doesn't come from getting a bunch of different people telling you to do different things.

I would also trust that the doctor is monitoring the baby's health and knows what is going on.
This is pretty much what my Mom said. My Aunt has a Nurse that the state sends over once a week to check on her, and the baby, and to talk to her about stuff. They started this when she was preg bc of all her issues, and bc she cant work she is pretty much living off of the Gov taking care of them. It DOES make me feel better that a Nurse is there every week, but I dont know really how great this Nurse is bc Aunt said she told her to let DD suck on a candy cane for a few seconds to help an upset tummy!! Seriously!

Quote:

When she comments on BF, you could say something like, "You DID bf, and the first (few days, few weeks, whatever) really are the most important. It's great that you DID bf while it was working. And now your baby is getting nutrition in a different way. The important thing is that she is eating!" Be totally positive and supportive and totally let go of how to do everything perfect because that just isn't possible.

Giving your aunt messages that she isn't doing this well enough will only make things worse for her and her baby. Find ways to encourage her and point out what she is doing right.
This is pretty much how I handled the whole BFing issue, because I know from experience, putting anything in a negative way with her makes her shut down.

I know she loves her DD and thinks she is doing great, so I want to be supportive and help her, not make her feel like I am calling her a bad mom, YK? I know I've got to be positive to be able to get anywhere with her.

Quote:

But didn't this just happen this week? Do you have any reason to think that your aunt is *always* giving her juice and pedialite?
Yes, yesterday was the first I heard about the pedialite, so I have no idea when that started, or how often.

I think I'm going to call her tmw just to 'chat', AKA get more information, and I think I am going to offer her the frozen BM and see how she responds to that. I have oversupply anyways.

Quote:

What kind of help and support is your aunt getting? What kind of help is she getting for depression? Is she on meds? Is she in weekly talk therapy? This is really where I would put my effort. Depression and PPD run in my family and I had two relatives kill themselves in the first year after having a child.

I would trust the doctor to make sure that the baby is getting proper care, and put effort into making sure that mom is also being cared for by mental health professionals.
THIS, exactly, is what scares me. A few months before she concieved she was hospitalized for a suicide attempt. She is on state assistance, so she does see counselors, and that Nurse comes over once a week. I know she is back on Xanax. Ugh I just feel so sad about the whole thing. I am an only child, but we spent a lot of time together when I was little, and we are only a few years apart ( I am 32 and she is 37) so she is the closest thing I have to a sister.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
It all sounds horrible, but none of it sounds CPS worthy. I mean, it's the basic carp that you hear on mainstream forums and FB statuses all the time.









BUT you keep mentioning grey and floppy. That worries me. You're right, babies can't be compared. But no babies are grey and floppy due to being different. That sounds serious.

This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.

Ummmm no. Feeding you baby formula instead of breastmilk might be "mainstream" parenting, it's not ideal, but it gets the job done. Giving them suppositories when they aren't constipated, and then feeding them pedialyte instead of formula is abuse. It might be done out of love, or out of misunderstanding of what infants need, but the baby doesn't know that. All she knows is that she's not getting enough nutrients to grow.

I'd talk to her and see if what you imply is happening is really happening, but if it does turn out that she's giving whole bottles of pedialyte on a regular basis, or using suppositories regularly without clear reason then yes, I think it warrants a CPS call.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

I just wanted to add that being small should not in and of itself make a baby "grey and floppy." Everyone in my family has small babies--my dd was 6/4, my niece #1 was 6/6, my niece #2 was just under 6 pounds (incidentally, my and my sisters all gave birth about a week before our EDD, without any artificial inducements). All of these were perfectly healthy babies who LOOKED healthy--bright eyes, rosy skin, alert, etc. I'd be much less concerned about the size of the baby relative to yours--some kids are just smaller--than about an overall sense of poor health.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.

Have you talked to your aunt about it? "Oh, aunt, baby Y looks so grey, what did her pediatrician say about it?"

Does she have a support person? Someone you can call and say, "hey, tell me what's going on with the baby."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Ummmm no. Feeding you baby formula instead of breastmilk might be "mainstream" parenting, it's not ideal, but it gets the job done. Giving them suppositories when they aren't constipated, and then feeding them pedialyte instead of formula is abuse. It might be done out of love, or out of misunderstanding of what infants need, but the baby doesn't know that. All she knows is that she's not getting enough nutrients to grow.

I'd talk to her and see if what you imply is happening is really happening, but if it does turn out that she's giving whole bottles of pedialyte on a regular basis, or using suppositories regularly without clear reason then yes, I think it warrants a CPS call.

Yes, but is CPS going to see it as abuse? I've heard plenty of doctors and nurses recommend suppositories and pedialyte, and much worse. It's noted in the OP that the lady gave her baby a bottle of formula after the pedialyte.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
Yes, but is CPS going to see it as abuse? I've heard plenty of doctors and nurses recommend suppositories and pedialyte, and much worse. It's noted in the OP that the lady gave her baby a bottle of formula after the pedialyte.

That's CPS's decision to make. They'll investigate and make a decision as to whether or not it's abuse. But if she never calls that decision won't get made. CPS can put in place different supports for a family. They can require regular check ins with a pediatrician, or parenting class, or ask that a child attend daycare so they know the child's getting fed an cared for there.

I agree that doctors recommend suppositories and pedialyte. At times I used both with my own child. But the way the OP is describing their use isn't in keeping with how they're supposed to be used. Giving a suppository to a child who isn't actually constipated, or giving pedialyte to a child who is capable of holding down formula isn't the same as using them carefully under doctor's orders.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

I would say that while offering your excess breast milk may make her feel bad, it may be a good idea. i also struggled with making enough milk and had to supplement my ds with formula, but if i had a close relative offer milk, i would have preferred that. My ds was not getting enough breastmilk the first 10 days and i had called nurse helpline, lactation consultants and no one helped me, my sister even thought ds looked pale/bluish as you describe and didn't say anything to me until after the fact, (she is very anti-breastfeeding). If she was having supply issues, and she noticed her baby wasn't getting enough milk, I am finding it hard to believe she is in denial about the baby not getting enough nutrients, unless it is deliberate. As far as the pedilyte, supositories thing, it is possible that your aunt may be taking the advice of the dr. , the weekly check-in person and who knows whether she is following their advice to the t. Did she take parenting classes when pregnant? I had been around babies, babysat, and worked in childcare for many years but me and dh still took that newborn class and we had to pay oop for it. Maybe a simple baby's first year dvd or book may help? Also if she came to stop by, she may be trying to reach out to you since you both have newborns around the same age. There are many possibilities, i would say if you truly are concerned, try to grow closer to your aunt and give subtle advice on how to care for her baby. And if her doctor did say to give pedilyte/supositories and you stand against it, it may be hard for her to believe you over a dr. kwim? That's how many people are. Good luck, stick to it and hoping you figure our this situation soon.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
That's CPS's decision to make. They'll investigate and make a decision as to whether or not it's abuse. But if she never calls that decision won't get made. CPS can put in place different supports for a family. They can require regular check ins with a pediatrician, or parenting class, or ask that a child attend daycare so they know the child's getting fed an cared for there.

I agree that doctors recommend suppositories and pedialyte. At times I used both with my own child. But the way the OP is describing their use isn't in keeping with how they're supposed to be used. Giving a suppository to a child who isn't actually constipated, or giving pedialyte to a child who is capable of holding down formula isn't the same as using them carefully under doctor's orders.

Mhm, but we will have to disagree on that point. Your logic could be applied to everyone. Might as well start calling CPS on every family you know, b/c CPS can decide what's abuse and what's not.

I didn't see the OP confirm that the infant was wrongly given a suppository. And I would say that if the OP is so close as to have enough contact to know if the infant was constipated or not, then a prompt call to the ped's office or support person can verify what's happening before making an anonymous call to CPS.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

The baby being grayish worries me, but the size and weight gain don't. We have a baby in our complex who was born a week before dd2. The other baby, D, was preemie...six weeks, I think...something like that. She's _tiny_ - literally about half the size of my dd2, or even a little less. Her early (first few months) weight gains were in the 2-4 oz. area, while dd2 was gaining over a pound a visit. But, D is alert, healthy looking, has good colour and interacts enthusiastically with everyone. She's just small.

The things that jump out at me from the OP:

1. Her aunt didn't say that the pediatrician told her to give her dd Pedialyte - just that she (the aunt) was worried about dehydration.

2. The fact that the pediatrician advised juice and suppositories sounds wacky to me...but he's also only going on what the aunt said. She told the OP that the poop is runny looking, but that doesn't mean she told the ped that. If he's really prescribing juice and suppositories for an 8 week old baby, based on "...DD is constipated, bc she cries, and 'looks' like she is trying to poop", then I think he's incompetent. I have yet to see a young baby who doesn't, at least sometimes, cry and look like they're trying to poop. My guess would be that the aunt hasn't told him that. IME, if someone is really fixated on something, the way the aunt seems to be on the "can't poop" thing, they won't always provide honest information about why they think that. If the OP's aunt thinks that other people won't trust her reasons, it's not unlikely that she'll just make up reasons that are convincing enough.

3. The aunt gave the baby a suppository to make her poop, then gave her pedialyte (possibly with the ped's advice, but the OP doesn't say so), because she was worried about dehydration, because her dd pooped too much. This is not logical or rational, and it worries me for the baby girl's health. Her mom seems to have all the best intentions, but she's behaving very oddly about feeding her dd.

I don't think this sounds CPS worthy, but it is worrying. I'm not sure what to suggest, honestly. It's not a good situation.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

I just had a talk with my mom about the whole thing again. Aunt also mentioned that my other Aunt (the middle sister, my mom is the oldest) has been watching her DD occasionally. My mom and I are going to call my middle Aunt (the one that has babysat her) and ask her what she thinks about this whole thing. We all had many conversations already about the pregnancy issues. We want to find out if the pedialite thing is everyday, or once in a while, the same with the whole pooping thing. We'll go from there hopefully we'll have a better picture of what is going on.

As for the BM, I already told Aunt I have oversupply, and I dont think she knows anything about BFing, so I'm thinking of putting it in a way that she would be *helping* me by taking some extra milk.

Thanks for your replies everyone, its nice to have people to mull things over with, and different points of view. I'll update you guys as I get more info.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Have you spoken directly with the pediatrician or the nurse who have been involved? How reliable is your aunt? Given her history (traumatic brain injury) and risks (depression and other mental illness), is there any concern about her ability to understand directions and information from health professionals? Will she report fully and honestly to you about what the health professionals have advised?

I question whether any health professional has told her it's okay to give juice or pedialyte or suppositories to an 8 week old. Yes, this advice is common, but usually with much older children who are no longer getting nutrition from breastmilk/formula alone. She may have misunderstood or she may not be honest with you about whether they told her do these things.

Perhaps you could go with her to the next appointment, or conveniently be visiting when the nurse stops in. It will give you a better sense of how good her professional support is. Perhaps you could suggest she see your pediatrician instead, if you think hers is not great.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Honestly? I would contact CPS. A grey/floppy 8 week old doesn't sound healthy. CPS wouldn't immediately remove the baby from the home - they would try to put some more support's in place for your aunt, and help make sure that the baby is getting everything she needs.

I know people don't think its CPS worthy, but a baby not getting enough nutrients to grow/thrive IS cps worthy.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I hate to admit I would consider CPS also. You do not have enough information. They would come in and review the situation in a way you cannot

Does her area have Parents as Teachers? Sign up with her for this program. You might have to nod your head and ignore them but she might benefit greatly from them.

My son was breast fed. Early on I question his pooping habits. He always struggled with them. I never felt it was right. I was told by doctors it will get better when he crawled, walked, it was normal, et. Everyone thought I was nuts. It wasn't until he was 4 that he finally got diagnosed with chronic constipation and had developed encropresis. We had years of suffering. I wish someone would have better respected my "obsession" with him not pooping normal. Ironicly, once my son's issues were diagnosed my grandma started talking about family members that had issues pooping when they were small and old -- there is a familiar pattern. SO PLEASE, respect that your cousin might have something going on that your aunt is getting bad advice.


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## Birdie B. (Jan 14, 2008)

I think Linda gave great advice, as did many others. I don't have much else to offer, just that my daughter (full term, normal birth, exclusively breastfed and well taken care of) was extremely tiny, slow to gain, has low muscle tone and very pale skin. She couldn't hold up her head until almost 3 months old. She needs physical therapy and early intervention services, but none of this is due to neglect.

I don't know if it's a similar case with your aunt's baby, but PPs are right; sometimes babies are small and floppy due to genetic disorders or other medical issues, not because of neglect. I wouldn't jump to conclusions, and I wouldn't reort her. You and your family can give her lots of support, and hopefully her doctor will find a reason for the low tone and possibly set her up w/ early intervention if she doesn't meet milestones. It's wonderful how much you care about her.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

My mom talked to my middle Aunt today (the one that has babysat this little girl). She said that Aunt has taken in DD to Ped specifically about pooping, and not being able to hold her head up and some other things. I guess the Ped she is with, was recommended to her by her OB (she had to be with a specialist high-risk OB), who was working with her health care team while she was preg. They seem to think there may be some developmental issues bc of Aunts health statis/drug use during pregnancy? She said there is some kind of muscle tone issue that she doesnt remember the name of like hypo-something , but its not something they want her in the NICU for I guess? Aunt says the Nurse, the Ped, and Aunts health team work together, and know the baby is small and not hitting milestones. She does not know anything about the pedialite though, or if that was reccomended to Aunt to use, or if she is using it on her own.

All of this on one hand makes me feel better, but on the other hand I am furious. This is EXACTLY what I was afraid of before she became pregnant. I TOLD her that she needed to get herself off of all the Rx drugs and smoking before getting pregnant, and cautioned her about all her other health issues she has now from her incident, like all the mini-strokes. But she was so obsessed with getting pregnant as soon as possilble, she ignored that, even though the rest of the family was telling her the same thing.

My mom says she is so mad she cant even see straight, but that we just need to let go of our anger to Aunt over it and try to make the best of it for the little girl. My mom said her little sister has always been headstrong and selfish, and the whole getting pregnant without getting herself in order thing takes the cake. She was already so mad before while Aunt was preg because Aunt was told SPECIFICALLY not to get preg by her health team as it could kill her. This is actually her second pregnancy since her incident. The first one she terminated on the advice of the health team as it was so dangerous to her and could have resulted in major problems for the baby. But then she went and got pregnant again on purpose.

I called her today and had to leave her a message. I am still going to offer her the BM, and I still want to get to the bottom of the whole pedialite thing.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
All of this on one hand makes me feel better, but on the other hand I am furious. This is EXACTLY what I was afraid of before she became pregnant. I TOLD her that she needed to get herself off of all the Rx drugs and smoking before getting pregnant, and cautioned her about all her other health issues she has now from her incident, like all the mini-strokes. But she was so obsessed with getting pregnant as soon as possilble, she ignored that, even though the rest of the family was telling her the same thing.

My mom says she is so mad she cant even see straight, but that we just need to let go of our anger to Aunt over it and try to make the best of it for the little girl. My mom said her little sister has always been headstrong and selfish, and the whole getting pregnant without getting herself in order thing takes the cake. She was already so mad before while Aunt was preg because Aunt was told SPECIFICALLY not to get preg by her health team as it could kill her. This is actually her second pregnancy since her incident. The first one she terminated on the advice of the health team as it was so dangerous to her and could have resulted in major problems for the baby. But then she went and got pregnant again on purpose.

I called her today and had to leave her a message. I am still going to offer her the BM, and I still want to get to the bottom of the whole pedialite thing.

Who cares if she was told not to get pregnant. The past is irrelevant now. She did and now that baby is here. There is nothing you can do about the decision she made to have a baby. It was not yours or anyone else in your families decision to make. From what you posted, your aunt is receiving medical care and you even mentioned that someone came to her house once a week. What more could you ask for? Sounds like she is doing the best she can.

Maybe the family could extended a little more compassion. Compassion would be a lot more helpful at this point than anger.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pauletoy* 
Who cares if she was told not to get pregnant. The past is irrelevant now. She did and now that baby is here. There is nothing you can do about the decision she made to have a baby. It was not yours or anyone else in your families decision to make. From what you posted, your aunt is receiving medical care and you even mentioned that someone came to her house once a week. What more could you ask for? Sounds like she is doing the best she can.

Maybe the family could extended a little more compassion. Compassion would be a lot more helpful at this point than anger.

Ok, for one thing, none of us have EVER expressed any anger to her at all!! She is family and we love her. We were scared for her LIFE. All of us have been nothing but supportive and caring towards her. And there is nothing wrong with us being upset at her choice to have a baby when she was told by her Doctors not to because it would likely result in a problem for the baby. She knew getting preg she was taking that risk, and did it anyways. Yes, its her decision, but we can still feel how we feel about it. We never EVER were unsupportive to her at any point, so I dont know why you assume we were.

Everything we do for her, and say to her is done with compassion, because we know how much her life has changed, and we almost lost her more than once. We KNOW we need to tread gently with her, as she is very fragile now.

I'm sorry to say I found your post very hurtfull.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:

And there is nothing wrong with us being upset at her choice to have a baby when she was told by her Doctors not to because it would likely result in a problem for the baby.
being upset about her choice to have a baby may make perfect sense and be well justified, but it doesn't help the baby or your aunt, and it may hurt them both a great deal.

At the end of the day, do you really wish that baby girl didn't exist? Is her life so completely screwed up already that you feel that it would be better if she had never been born? Is she just a mistake and a tragedy?

Having the attitude that a child never should have been born is very damaging to a child even if it is never stated outloud.

If you have any religious spiritual beliefs, use them to examine your views about this baby. Until you believe that *she is here for a reason and she is blessing to your whole family*, then you haven't really started to love her.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I am sorry you felt my post was hurtful. It was certainly not my intention.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
My mom says she is so mad she cant even see straight, but that we just need to let go of our anger to Aunt over it and try to make the best of it for the little girl.

This is what I was referring to. Apparently there is alot of anger in your family, it may be justified anger but it is not helpful in supporting your aunt and her baby. While you and others may not express your anger to her directly, it would be hard to imagine that she doesn't sense it. With all of the talking going on amongst family members, some of the talk is bound to get back to her. This could hinder efforts you make to help her.

This is a tough situation and help may have to come from outside the familiy. You mentioned that they are both being monitored by a "medical team", which means she is providing medical care for the baby. Does she have a case worker or someone coordinating care for both of them? If you are truly scared for her life, then contact CPS or start legal precedings to have your aunt proven incompetent to care for the baby and herself. Other than that, there really isn't much you can do, as you stated in your first post your aunt is defensive and would ignore your advice.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
being upset about her choice to have a baby may make perfect sense and be well justified, but it doesn't help the baby or your aunt, and it may hurt them both a great deal.

At the end of the day, do you really wish that baby girl didn't exist? Is her life so completely screwed up already that you feel that it would be better if she had never been born? Is she just a mistake and a tragedy?

Having the attitude that a child never should have been born is very damaging to a child even if it is never stated outloud.

If you have any religious spiritual beliefs, use them to examine your views about this baby. Until you believe that *she is here for a reason and she is blessing to your whole family*, then you haven't really started to love her.









This was what I was trying to say even though it didn't come across that way. Linda is obviously much better with words.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pauletoy* 
If you are truly scared for her life, then contact CPS or start legal precedings to have your aunt proven incompetent to care for the baby and herself.

I did not mean her DD's life when I said that, I meant my Aunts life, as she would told a pregnancy could kill her. We were all terrified to lose her after almost losing her to her incident and attempted suicide.

Quote:

If you have any religious spiritual beliefs, use them to examine your views about this baby. Until you believe that she is here for a reason and she is blessing to your whole family, then you haven't really started to love her.
Of course I love this little girl, and I would never wish that she did not exist. I DO wish my Aunt had at least weaned herself off all the medication she was on prior to concieving. I understand that is all said and done now, and, yes, the family is still worried /upset about things, but the whole point of this entire post is me trying to help my Aunt and her DD.









I just wanted to edit to add when I said I was furious, It was directed towards Aunt not cleaning up her system before getting preg... not in any way towards that little girl. And I am not honestly really furious... I was just very sad and emotional after I got off the phone with my mom. I love my Aunt, and I am trying my best to be supportive and help her without her feeling judged.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

The 'hypo' thing is hypotonia which just means low muscle tone. It is pretty common. My son had it first but he is fine now. If they are keeping an eye on him that sounds good. It does sometimes require physical therapy.

I would be concerned about the pedialyte can you find out if she is still doing that??


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
The 'hypo' thing is hypotonia which just means low muscle tone. It is pretty common. My son had it first but he is fine now. If they are keeping an eye on him that sounds good. It does sometimes require physical therapy.

I would be concerned about the pedialyte can you find out if she is still doing that??

Thanks for that! I'm glad to hear your DS is ok from it.

I still havent heard back from her yet, because I still want to find some way to ask more about the pedialite, and offer her all the frozen BM I cant use.


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

It sonds like she does have a health team following everything, thats really good.
I've had foster babies with Hypotonia and also Hypertonia, none of which were gray. So long as she has early intervention behind her (which she likely will if the baby has been diagnosed) then the therapies the baby gets will help a lot, the earlier they start the better.
Maybe you can offer her a bottle of BM each time she comes to see you, then you'll know it isn't going to waste.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
It sonds like she does have a health team following everything, thats really good.
I've had foster babies with Hypotonia and also Hypertonia, none of which were gray. So long as she has early intervention behind her (which she likely will if the baby has been diagnosed) then the therapies the baby gets will help a lot, the earlier they start the better.
Maybe you can offer her a bottle of BM each time she comes to see you, then you'll know it isn't going to waste.

Yes, I'm still wondering about that too. I still think her skin tone is odd, but then I have never been around babies before. My DS and her DD are the only little babies I have ever held before, so I dont know if the tone *is* off, or if its just really different than my DS's skin tone bc of racial backgrounds.


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## annekh23 (Nov 1, 2008)

Has anyone offered to go to the ped with her? She may not like it, but it should be possible to express that it's just for support and that it's not because you think she's doing anything wrong, just that you know that it's not easy to remember to ask every question, or remember everything a doctor says. So if the doctor says give juice, you can ask how much and how he recommends giving it and how often and which type is best etc. you could also write them down so she has clear instructions. Given she was concerned about dehydration because of the amount of poo, you (or whoever can go with her) can ask about what poo should look like after juice or suppository, basically ask any question you can think of.

The baby doesn't sound entirely healthy, but also not particularly close to being at the point where she's at such risk where you need to intervene NOW.

Getting CPS involved could end up being stressful with no actual help, or a baby being taken away unnecessarily, nothing you've said makes me thing she can't care for her child with the right support, or that the child is at immediate risk.

What's money like for her? Could she be bothered about the price of formula? Any baby that's not getting breastmilk will benefit from getting some, your Aunt doesn't sound stupid, so I'd be completely frank with her, because it does sound like she is able to read between the lines, but isn't very good at doing so, but if there isn't anything between the lines, you're doing your best to work around that problem. So be honest with her, tell her that you have spare milk, that you don't want to waste it when you know a baby could benefit from it and you'd rather that be your cousin than anyone else - assuming that is your reason.

For yourself, I really would try letting go of past emotions, the situation is what it is and you are choosing to be involved in her life, so sad though the past is, try not to be angry, with her, or with anyone else.

Personally I felt offended with how strong and repeated your stance on drugs and pregnancy are, there were lots of reasons for her not to get pregnant, her drug use seems quite low on that list to me and once she was pregnant, some drug use may well have been better than not, e.g. if antidepressants are working, then it's mostly better to be on them than not and whilst pain killers aren't ideal, they are actually one of the least problem causing drugs. To me it seems like you are focusing too much on that, it sounds like you feel unlistened to yet are communicating something that doesn't even have a lot of truth to it, you don't say how she got pregnant, but there are hints that she could be quite promiscuous, that in itself is probably more risky to her or the baby than prescription drugs, which unless she is obtaining them illegally are being prescribed by a doctor and even though some doctors are more liberal than others, there is still a limit, most doctors wouldn't prescribe cigarettes to a pregnant woman if they were on prescription, yet it sounds like you are more bothered by her prescription drug use than how long it took her to take to stop smoking.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
Of course I love this little girl, and I would never wish that she did not exist. I DO wish my Aunt had at least weaned herself off all the medication she was on prior to concieving.

I understand all that, but I think that making peace with the fact that your aunt didn't wean herself off all meds prior to concieving would be helpful to you, your aunt, and her baby.

Kids are born with special needs who'se parents have done everything *right,* and parents who do everything wrong can end up with very healthy smart kids. We do the right thing because it is right and we are playing the odds.

Quote:

I was just very sad and emotional after I got off the phone with my mom. I love my Aunt, and I am trying my best to be supportive and help her without her feeling judged.
this is a difficult situation









I don't feel judgmental toward you at all. I just know what it is like to a have a child who doesn't develop typically and have my parenting picked a part because of it. It's really horriable, isolating, and depressing.







It really sounds like your aunt is on the edge already, and I just think that she doesn't need that on top of everything else.

It really doesn't matter what happened in the past or if their is a link between her medication and what is going on with the baby. The only thing that really matters is today. The past is over.

Instead of focusing on what happened during the pregnancy, focus on the baby being a blessing -- for her mother, for you, for your whole family, for your child, for herself.

And I feel strongly that calling CPS is the wrong thing to do. The baby has a whole team of people looking after her who know more about the situation than the OPer and are required by law to call CPS if they suspect neglect.


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## KimberlyD0 (Mar 8, 2009)

Also I can't help but get from your tone that you are looking for things to be wrong. It does come across that way.

When you look for things to be wrong you'll always find them.

I am one of those moms who did everything right and I still ended up with a special needs baby. Your aunt is defensive because, whether you mean to or not, your family is judgeing her. So of course she doesn't want to hear it.

I once had another mom point blank ask me, "what did you do while you were pregnant to cause it?" so hurtfull on so many levels. When you have a child who's different judgments come and yes you get defensive. I know I did nothing wrong and I still feel it. I imagine she feels it a 1000x's worse when she feels the guilt too.

Let it go. No she wasn't "clean enough" yes she had mental issues, but you know what other women out there with all sorts of issues, including PPD, PTSD, and many many more are all moms, and darn good ones at that.

As for the BM my honest opinion it be gental and ready to not bother. Having been in here shoes you have no idea how hurtful and guilty that can make a mom who can't BF their own child. Some will gladly take it and be greatful, some will feel even more judged and guilty. With all the anger, resentment, and blame in your family right now, it would really be just one for "see your not good enough and we're better then you. Even if thats not what you mean.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:

Personally I felt offended with how strong and repeated your stance on drugs and pregnancy are, there were lots of reasons for her not to get pregnant, her drug use seems quite low on that list to me and once she was pregnant, some drug use may well have been better than not, e.g. if antidepressants are working, then it's mostly better to be on them than not and whilst pain killers aren't ideal, they are actually one of the least problem causing drugs. To me it seems like you are focusing too much on that
Just to clarify this, most of the Rx she was taking, were not prescribed to her, she was taking large amounts, and in alternative ways like crushing the pills and snorting them.

I'm not going to bring this up again, as Linda stated, its done and wont fix anything.

Quote:

I am one of those moms who did everything right and I still ended up with a special needs baby. Your aunt is defensive because, whether you mean to or not, your family is judgeing her. So of course she doesn't want to hear it.

I once had another mom point blank ask me, "what did you do while you were pregnant to cause it?" so hurtfull on so many levels. When you have a child who's different judgments come and yes you get defensive. I know I did nothing wrong and I still feel it. I imagine she feels it a 1000x's worse when she feels the guilt too.
This, is exactly why I didnt say anything to her about the babys 'feel' or her skin tone. I would never be hurtful to anyone in this way. When I said she was defensive, I meant in genral, her personality is defensive. No one has said anything to her implying this at all.

Quote:

Also I can't help but get from your tone that you are looking for things to be wrong. It does come across that way.

When you look for things to be wrong you'll always find them.
I really honestly do not feel like I am looking for anything to be wrong. I was very startled at my baby cousins appearance and the other things, and I actually came on here partly for reasurance that it was ok. I started this thread bc I have no experience with babys, and I am concerned. I wanted some reasurance, maybe a little bit of support or advice, and now I keep feeling like I am having to defend myself.









Quote:

With all the anger, resentment, and blame in your family right now, it would really be just one for "see your not good enough and we're better then you. Even if thats not what you mean.
And I feel like I am not communicating how things are, if this is how its coming across, because it is NOT like this in my family at all.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

hey mama,

i think that you are doing the right thing and i think that your feelings are valid and i think that it is totally understandable that you would be angry with your aunt for her inability to stop using drugs before getting pregnant.

i think there is some advice from mom's who have btdt _sort_ of and they may be responding from their perspectives of what was hurtful to them as mamas that didn't do anything to cause their babies sn, whereas your aunt did and it might be hard to separate those feelings.

i think you were genuinely caring about your aunt and cousin and i think that in this situation it was valid.

i don't think this is cps worthy at all but i am really glad that you followed up and know that the baby is being seen my doctors that know the issues.


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## KimberlyD0 (Mar 8, 2009)

I was not saying she shouldn't be angry. She is valid in those emotions. But if they're as angry with this person as they say you can bet this women does feel it.

Anger is powerful and its hurtful.

I was simply trying to give the perspective from someone who is judged about her childs SN. We've had CPS called 7 times!! because DD's condition makes it look like her leg is bruised and people are concerned. Its devistarting when you have to be investigated, and when you are under a microscope and you havn't done anything wrong.

If this mom has as much support and care from the medical community as she does then this baby is fine and the family needs to now put aside the anger, even if its justified, because the anger will only do more harm then good. This baby will also feel it as she grows and if she does have special needs, then she will likly feel even more unwanted, and as a burden.

Its a bad situation, but no one has the right to tell another women she can't have kids. Not unless that child is in true danger, and it doesn't sound like this child is in danger.

Just stop looking for things to be wrong, look for things that are right. You might be suprised what you find. Maybe a loving mother doing the best she can, with a support network to back her up. From what the OP posted she is not doing this by herself.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DariusMom* 
I agree with this.

I think anger is a valid and understandable emotion. I'm angry when people don't take care of themselves and their children. It doesn't mean I don't also feel compassion and love. It doesn't mean I don't understand the complex series of events that led to that situation. It doesn't mean I say anything. It doesn't mean I don't try to help.

It is very very rare that we, as humans, only feel *one* thing (especially one positive thing). You can be *furious* with your tantruming toddler and still love him/her. You can be spitting angry at your spouse for doing something stupid, wish s/he hadn't done that stupid thing, and still love him/her and be totally and completely compassionate and loving towards him/her.

The OP is expressing very understandable and very *mixed* emotions about what is clearly a very painful and difficult situation within her family. Practical advice is helpful. BTDT is helpful. "You shouldn't be angry and you just need to let it all go [as though that's so easily doable] and you're being super judgmental to this poor woman" are really not helpful.

Well said!
Just as people are writing from their experiences as being the mom with a SN babe or feeling judged, there are those of us that have BTDT in the OP's shoes as well. My own mother had a 3rd child in the midst of a raging drug addiction and untreated mental health issues. I was so angry with her but in no way did that convey to my little sister. I loved that baby fromn the start and even spent years raising her.

I *get* feeling frustrated at someone who probably is not doing a good job of taking care of herself now taking care of a newborn. I *get* wondering if she's going to get so stressed one day that she'll return to snorting crushed up pills. The Op and her mom are to be commended for caring and it's okay to have feelings that aren't all sunshine.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

This sounds like a very tough situation and I just wanted to say good luck. Your Aunt and her baby girl ARE lucky to have people who care so much.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I would call CPS and voice your concern. I've had foster babies who's mothers have had lots of in home services put in place to try and prevent disruption. I think if you wait, things could get really bad and removal might take place.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

About the grayness. Is the baby part (or all) African American? If so, that might expain the coloring (especially if you aren't familiar with babies.) AA and biracial babies are often born really light and gradually darken. Some biracial babies skin can look sort of gray if you aren't expecting it.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

I would tread lightly with the idea of calling CPS. It may be warranted at some point, but from what you have written, it seems like there are other options to pursue before doing that. It sounds like she has a safety net of medical professionals and a present family. Is there any way someone in your family can contact the nurse who does the weekly visits and express your concerns? It would be great to have an ongoing dialogue with that person. It sounds like your aunt is limited and may not always make good choices. But, having lots of people behind her helping her learn how to correctly handle different parenting situations is such a better alternative to having CPS involved. Good luck - it must be hard to watch.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Polliwog* 
About the grayness. Is the baby part (or all) African American? If so, that might expain the coloring (especially if you aren't familiar with babies.) AA and biracial babies are often born really light and gradually darken. Some biracial babies skin can look sort of gray if you aren't expecting it.

No, her baby is not biracial, its my DS that is part Japanese (from my DH).

Our family is German, and her husband has blond hair/blue eyes, so the baby is a lot lighter than my DS, and so I was thinking maybe that accounts for the tone? IDK honestly.

I invited her over again this next week. Unfortunately I cant go to her bc DH and I share a car


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Xavismom* 
Our family is German, and her husband has blond hair/blue eyes, (

the way your other posts came across, I assumed she was a single mother.

Whats the scoop with dad? How involved is he?


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Hey OP...I just wanted to say that your first post struck me because when I had ds1 I was nursing him and he didn't poop and he wasn't gaining weight. The doctor recommended some pear juice, yes at about 2wks old, and it did nothing. It took several weeks to realize that I actually wasn't producing enough milk. So, of course he wasn't gaining weight, and of course he wasn't pooping. He wasn't getting enough to eat. So, in your aunt's case, I'm wondering if all this pooping business has taken her off track. If she's feeding alot of juice and pedialyte BEFORE the formula, perhaps the baby is just not getting enough to eat. Is there some way you or your mom, aunt, whoever, can mention that a baby at that age "should" be eating around X ounces of formula per day. (That information can be found online.) If that's the problem, it is easily solved. Maybe when you offer your BM to her, you could say, "Two month olds usually eat about X ounce per day, and I have X amount extra, would that help?"








to you, it sounds like a very hard situation


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
the way your other posts came across, I assumed she was a single mother.

Whats the scoop with dad? How involved is he?

He is not involved AT ALL with ANYTHING









They still live together, even though they both threaten divorce to each other constantly. He refuses to get a job. Someone offered him a job at a fast food place while she was preg, and he turned it down bc it wasnt 'good enough' for him. He is in a band, and leaves my Aunt alone all the time to go practice, even though he knows she needs constant care and help. He went out drinking the night their DD was born. He yells at her, calls her fat, all kinds of mean things.

She says he does not help out at all with their DD, to do ANYTHING. Aunt actually moved a bed into DD's room and sleeps there now, which I think is prob better for DD anyhow. Aunt is against CIO, and DD can only fall asleep with Aunt, so she cant sleep with her husband bc he smokes/drinks/ doesnt care about CIO etc.









Well all know even though he yells at her and threatens to divorce her, he is not going anywhere bc she is his free ticket to not working. My Aunt would NEVER have put up with this BS before her incident but she is fragile and scared to be alone now









Allthough she did tell me that DD's birth made her feel more powerfull and closer to the person she used to be, she said she hopes it makes her feel strong again so she doesnt need him. So far she's still putting up with him though.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heatherb917* 
Maybe when you offer your BM to her, you could say, "Two month olds usually eat about X ounce per day, and I have X amount extra, would that help?"

That is a very good idea, thanks!!


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