# AMA trying to make homebirth illegal?



## Twinklefeet (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey all- just a little curious if anyone else has heard about this???

My mom did doula training in Philly this past weekend and heard that the AMA has made its mission for 2009 to get home birth made illegal, and anyone attending a home birth made a criminal. Is this accurate? Has anyone else heard this? And if it's true, what can we do to stop them?
If anyone has any articles or websites with info about this, please post a link, I'd like to read more about this. Any other thoughts would be most welcome, too. Also, I hope this is posted in the right place... wasn't sure if I should put it in the homebirth forum instead of/in addition to this one?


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

They(AMA) are feeling really challeneged by Ricki Lake's documentary on birth. They did pass a resolution, let me see if I can find it.

Here is ACNM response to the AMA
http://www.midwife.org/ACNM_Response_to_AMA.cfm


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

here ya go
http://multimedia.nydailynews.com/pd...ricki_lake.pdf

riki lake's response
http://www.thebusinessofbeingborn.co...or-our-rights/


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

lets ask the ACOG for their opinion b/c obviously they are unbiased and have nothing to gain from outlawying homebirth.







: this scares the crap out of me


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## loveyourohana (Jul 14, 2008)

I have a sneaky suspicion that even if they fail making homebirth illegal, we will be fighting this fight for a very very very long time. They will try again... and somehow we need to start educating in a faster better way! Lets bring the majority of homebirths back to a higher number than that of in hospital.

I suppose teaching our children that having a baby at home is safer, and better, and teaching them that even if its agains the law, its still better.

I suppose I stand the chance of being arrested and charged if they make having a baby illegal.

Where has America gone? Freedom should stand for something, and women losing their rights to have a baby, well that is just wrong!


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

It will never work, especially on the federal level. "Medical" stuff is left up to state gov't. If they want to go state by state and try to reverse certification for homebirth midwives in the states that allow it, well good luck, in those places the fight's already been won for homebirth.


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## Twinklefeet (Mar 19, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies! I'm glad to hear that other people have heard this, and that there seems to be some stuff going on to counter the AMA's pressure to make HB illegal. I hope to hear more discussion on how to be pro-active in the near future... I'll be cruising those links today as I get time, thanks to all who posted them!


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

now that I'm thinking about it and read the pp.. the AMA cant really make it illegal.. they can strongly reccomend against it and call everyone who does it irresponsible baby hating nut cases and make it darn hard if you have to transfer for some reason but i dont think they can actually stop people from doing it.. although i dont doubt they would try. I wish there was something big we could do to help educate as many people as possible and quickly.. so that women realize they have safe alternatives to hospitals.. and that hospitals are not always the safest option.


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

OB's hate home birth because they get paid the same whether it's a difficult birth or an easy one. They resent the midwives taking the low risk pregnancies and making them do the high risk stuff. Isn't that what they're trained for?!?!


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## EMS (Dec 9, 2006)

I attended the same doula training in Philly last weekend! The teacher did mention that, and it had me pretty worried and upset. Not sure what one can do, aside from letter writing...


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i dont even know why it would be an option. all the research says homebirth is a perfectly safe alternative. Seems silly to out right lie .. but then people will do a lot for money. i do wish we could do something though. problem is that many people dont know enough about homebirth and wouldnt think to ahave a problem with it being prohibited or 'strongly discouraged' kwim?


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

check out this website

http://www.thebigpushformidwives.org/


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## VT mountaingirl (Oct 1, 2006)

I was also outraged when I read about this in Mothering. I can not imagine being forced to have a hospital birth. I would be willing to do whatever it takes to keep homebirth legal. I am just completely mind blown that this is even an issue. The AMA has no idea how much of a fight they will have on their hands from all of us homebirthing mothers!!!







:


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I fail to see how this would even be possible. So if you accidently gave birth at home, you could be prosecuted?







:


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## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

However the AMA may feel about homebirth, they have to admit that it's a safer option for many women than receiving NO care at all, and having no attendants present (and I know some people choose UC, and it's right for them, but the global studies show that having an experienced attendant at birth significantly reduces maternal and fetal mortality).

For some populations of women, the choices surrounding birth are not "doctor in the hospital or midwife at home," but "midwife at home or no one at all." For cultural and economic reasons, midwifery care in the home is the best way to provide care to substantial populations of moms. There are a ton of reasons why home birth should remain legal, and this one, to me, is the most important.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
I fail to see how this would even be possible. So if you accidently gave birth at home, you could be prosecuted?







:

they can give you a heck of a hard time. i have talked to some women here who have gone through He!! after having a hb. its sick. i would go to great lengths to protect hb


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## Jaysfamily (Jun 5, 2008)

I wish they could see how ineffective this is. Outlawing midwives doesn't work. Direct entry midwives are illegal in Alabama, but that hasn't stopped attended homebirths.







It's really sad that women have to lie about their births and to participate in an "illegal" activity just to avoid being unnecessarily strapped down, drugged, and cut.

I really appreciate Ricky Lake for what she has done for homebirth. It gives me hope that my state may one day allow me to do what is safest for myself and my baby without fear of prosecution. It's really sad that the AMA and ACOG are basically doing this over money. Using the government to outlaw your competition goes against the very principles this country was founded on.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

There are a lot of state based groups working on this too, to fight it I mean. I belong to Friends of Michigan Midwives - we don't have our website up yet, but we do have a yahoo group, Missouri has one too

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...guid=227002361


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

There were plenty of posts and threads about this months ago here on mdc.

But, really, now, tell me you are not surprised.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.


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## Jaysfamily (Jun 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.


The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.


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## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaysfamily* 
The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.









:

The other important thing to remember is there there are certification and acreditation systems in place presently. When it comes to CPMs -MEAC provides the acreditation for schools providing midwifery education and NARM provides the certification have educational requirements and a greivance process. The NARM certification process includes both prenatal and postnatal education. I've actually observed the exam given reguarding the newborn exam and it's very thorough - candidates are expected to follow a very specific proceedure. The ACNM also has a good comparison chart of the educational/certification paths taken by both CNM/CMs and CPMs.

That being said, I think what's most important is not further regulation per se, but education and empowerment so that women can make the best decision for themselves as to which care provider would be the best fit.

mommato5 - I would definitely encourage you to review the links I've given above. If your midwife claimed to be a CPM or had NARM certification there is a complaint process available to you. There is also a push out there to pass a law in your state that would help to establish procedures and processes for midwives. I'd encourage you to get into contact with those organizations as well as it's possible you may have something to offer them. Perhaps it might help prevent another mother from your state from experiencing what you've gone through. Unfortunately, as Jaysfamily pointed out there are no guarantees either way.

I am very sorry for your loss.


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## mommato5 (Feb 19, 2007)

Neither system is perfect. If an OB is directly responsible for the death of a baby, they risk legal action. If a midwife is responsible, she can just walk away with no repercussions. Meanwhile, on top of a lawsuit, that DR's premiums are going to jump until he cannot afford to practice anymore. The thing with weighing benefits is that a woman puts her trust into a midwife and we are under the impression that homebirth is safest. The birth may be fine, but, what about afterwards?? There's just so much to think about. I do understand the AMA's position. The talk about women and choices, how many of us choose for our babies to die due to a negligent midwife?? Midwives are not trained well here. I juist can't really get angry with the AMA because I see the reasoning behind everything. The death of a baby affects somebody to their core, even the DR's. My Dr's weren't involved in the life saving efforts of my daughter, but, it has affected them and their entire office. I just want people to look at it from a DR's perspective instead of trying to Say "They are taking away my choice".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaysfamily* 
The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.

Well, having doula'd for a long time, and attending many homebirths also as well as being friends with lots of midwives and apprentices, and working for an advocacy group, I have seen it from both sides. I have seen births turn into train wrecks for absolutely no reason other than fear introduced by docs who spoon feed more and more until everything is going wrong. I have also seen a CNM totally screw up a BCB because she insisted on arom, then had mom push, but she reverse dilated after the arom and swelled all up, cnm couldn't even get a cath in to empty her bladder which was coming down, I could have done it myself, with no credentials! and she got sectioned just because the cnm was afraid of an intact bow. I have also heard my share of women grieve over their homebirths, baby deaths, almost bleeding to death, watching mother and baby both in bad shape (bad dystocia, needs ppv but the tank isn't set up right, placenta comes with six cups of blood) not fun, very scary for everyone there, but fortunately that one turned out ok.

I agree that 40 births sounds like a small number, but if you are apprenticing, it takes about 70 to 100 births to get all the requirements of those 40, if you are lucky and have a lot of good births. I think a good thing to add would be training for senior midwives before they can accept apprentices. Working under a midwife who's attended 2000 births is waaaaay different than apprenticing with someone who's been practicing for 2 years. kwim?


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## loveyourohana (Jul 14, 2008)

Well, My two cents. I think its the hospitals and dr.s who need revamping, way more than the midwife! I say this because if the population of womens care begins to move towards midwifes more there is usually reason for this. I have found for myself that I don't like my freedom and the freedom of how I deliver, or the safety of my child, and the safety of myself compromised with hospital staff and lack of knowledge and poor decisions within a hospital setting.

I would put my birth in the hands of a midwife, before I would go down that road of a hospital birth again, at least not without a midwife! So even though neither system is perfect, I think the midwife is the choice myself and of many for a very very good reason! I find it safer, kinder, more loving, and I believe there to be less risk to my baby with a midwife!!!!! Most women I know that wake up to what is happening in the hospital births, and see that having a midwife IS safer, they also switch to midwifes.

Who has their baby in a hospital without a midwife these days? I think THAT is what is causing the AMA to try to pass what they are passing!


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommato5* 
I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.









Ugh! I'm so sorry that you had to witness that!

It is an unfortunate truth that no profession is immune from incompetent practitioners. That is why we need adequate training, (I agree with PP's that NARM already provides that for out-of-hospital CPMs), regulation, and sanctions. Licensing Certified Professional Midwives does just that.

Licensing doesn't just protect midwives; it protects women and babies by making midwives accountable. _IF_ the issue for the AMA were safety, the organization would support licensing CPMs.

But every time midwives try to set up statewide licensing systems, the AMA is there to stop them.


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## loveyourohana (Jul 14, 2008)

"The same things happen in hospital births too... I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this."








:

" (I agree with PP's that NARM already provides that for out-of-hospital CPMs), regulation, and sanctions. Licensing Certified Professional Midwives does just that... But every time midwives try to set up statewide licensing systems, the AMA is there to stop them."

and







:

"Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see."

I would like to see this happening with Drs and staff as well!!!! I have a way better chance of holding a midwife liable for bad judgment calls than I do any Doctor, Nurse or Anasthesiologist sp?... or other hospital staff... Bigger money, better lawyers!

"I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive."

NO ONE likes to see this happen... unfortunately it does, and in my studies I have found it to be more of a threat in a hospital than with a midwife... I am sooo sorry that you witnessed this HUGS, no one should have to experience a bad judgement death of a newborn EVER...

What about those deaths from reactions to needless medical intervention, or wrong prescriptions, or wrong calls from a Dr, or staff? Hugs to anyone witnessing a newborn passing!

A newborn passed away in a hospital near us because instead of giving the baby oxygen, a mistake was made, and that newborn was given something other than oxygen, and died.) If only that child had been born at home with a midwife, that child would still be alive today! My heart goes out to those precious lifes as well!

You are going to have bad experiences and tragedies on either side, its unfortunate, and sad, but there will always be mistakes made on BOTH sides. I just know that the freedom of birth is there for the mother and father more so with a midwife, and the numbers of death and tragedy are lower than hospital births. I think this says volumes on who really needs revamping? One has a higher rate of manufactured drugs, the other has a higher rate of using natural means to help have a baby. Choosing a midwife, or choosing a OBGYN is my choice to make, not the AMA's, its the woman birthing who has that right. I chose a hospital birth for my first baby and hated the pitocin, I hated the lies about circ. I hated the way I was treated, and I had a horrible experience!!! I hated that my choice became nothing, and I don't believe it was safe for my son, or for me. I hated the fact that I was told my son was in grave danger and I needed to be started, and I was lied to! I asked after, and the truth came out!!!! Talk about ANGRY!!!!! I was started out of conv... According to them, no harm was done... so I had no case!!! I beg to differ! I was robbed of an experience that should have been of my choosing, not Dr. needs to go out on a date tonight, so get this over with. If it isn't in time... C section... and no liability if nothing goes wrong?

I truly think that if midwifes were not allowed the freedom to do as they do, more bad than good would come of it... part of what makes it so good is the ability to really listen to instinct by all those involved... You have to really dig for a good midwife... but you have to dig for a really good Dr. as well!

If the AMA started requesting more use of hospital methods for midwifes, and outlawed UC etc. etc. they will have taken the right for a woman to birth the way she would like... and that is slap in the face to womens rights!!!

Midwife at home, in hospital or hospital staff are completely seperate ways of birthing, and its a choice to be made by the women giving birth. How long have we been doing this again? There are just as many Dr.s who have blamed a death of a newborn on other reasons, and go home knowing that if another choice had been made, that baby would be alright.

There are Dr.s ignoring the vaccination reactions pitocin use reactions and long term effects etc. they are able to just not be held accountable if something goes wrong... throw the blame on the possibilities of something else... and that bothers me and should others as well... this is causing devistating results, with no liabilty from the one who Coursed a decision making one feel no choice was there, that took the quality of life from a child because of drug reaction in the first place!!! No responsibility, lies and deception.... AMA Start looking at the real problem, instead of taking action against the midwife! Womens RIGHTS, Womens CHOICE, Our BIRTH....

I NO LONGER trust the AMA, the CDC or Big Pharma! I truly believe the revamping needs to happen where trust is being lost. Neither system is perfect, but I would take a midwife over the other anyday!

A way to stop them!!! Lots and lots of people signing petitions, calling state reps, and writing local hospitals that are getting rid of Midwifes. I think that is a good start... more and more women Using midwifes in hospital or out, donations all of that!

I believe that the real question of medical staff, Hospital Boards, AMA, etc... really needs to be, Why are more mothers choosing Homebirth, and truly make a change in Staff, and client relationships. Fix what is broken in the hospitals, GUN up and take responsibility before throwing stones!

If for some crazy reason the AMA succeeds... I WILL be either having an illegal birth... or traveling outside the United States of America to have my children, and that is just sad! I am truly proud to be an American, as long as my rights as a mother and woman are NOT withdrawn!


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