# Poll & Discussion - What is your impression of the MDC Diapering board?



## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Hello Diapering mamas!

I first want to thank all of you for what you contribute to MDC in the way of participation, signature and banner advertising, donations, DDDDCs, reviews, and all around general helpfulness you provide for the many mamas new to cloth diapering.

I have a topic I'd like to discuss with you all. In reviewing our policies and guidelines we find ourselves concentrating on spam. At the request of our members and based on MDC's own general policies we have tried to uphold a spam-free atmosphere and feel that we have been fairly successful in doing so. However, we have also noticed what seems to be repetitive covert spam by some members on behalf of others. In reviewing our policies we are questioning this issue - if it is what it seems to be - and thought it might be a good idea to get the input of the Diapering community, so that we may benefit from your perceptions and opinions.

So please, take a moment of your time to vote and, if you wish, contribute your thoughts and feelings about this important issue in a reply (I've allowed multiple chice in the voting). If you have something to say for or against our spam policies or in general about our guidelines for board participation please do so, keeping in mind our desire for a comfortable and respectful atmosphere and general posting rules. Nothing identifying persons or companies. Things of that nature can be sent to me privately.


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Well, I see a lot of recommendations in the Diapering Forum for products. Sometimes I know that the person recommending the product is the maker's friend, but I really don't see a problem with that. I buy stuff from my WAHM friends from MDC. Like, just the other day I got an awesome soaker from an mdc mamma. I *adore* it and want to share with all my friends here. Should I not post about it because she is also my friend? Do I have to keep quiet about the dipes I get from WAHM friends just because they are my friends? I think I would never be able to post about new products because I really only buy stuff from MDC WAHMs, and on the off chance I buy from a non MDC WAHM, I tell them in any email correspondence about the boards and invite them to join.

I would feel very put out if we were not allowed to praise a product of one of our friends- I would have a lot less fun in this forum, since half the fun is listing the fun stuff we have or want or like, etc. Even when I buy stuff off the TP I am 10 times more likely to buy an MDC mamma's product, part of it is because when I get it and love it, I can come support a fellow MDC WAHM. I think that coming into the boards as an outsider and posting spam is innappropriate, like say if WAHM ABC's best friend XYZ isn't an active member and s/he joins just to post spam, then that would be really innapprorpriate--- *but* I do think we could sniff that one out for ourselves and the WAHM who encouraged a friend to do that would end up looking bac b/c of it. That's why I think it happens so rarely- WAHMs know that they are gonna look bad if they have someone spam for them and it looks cheesy, kwim?

One thing I don't like is seeing MDC mammas post nasty comments in threads when there is spam. Many mammas are new to this board and they don't know they can't spam. There is a popular alternative mamma board that does allow spam, and many members there are members here. Sometimes their MDC friends refer them here and they don't know- i see that a lot- - and they post something or other that comes of spammy- or is outright spam, and someone tears them down. I think that is just silly. When I see people spamming I pm them and tell them the rules in a way that is nice and friendly, so they know I'm looking out for them, since spam is read so negatively here. We should look out for each other, not get snarky when newbies to MDC, or newbies to the diapering forum mess up.

Anyway, I'm up really late- or early as the case may very well be, so before my post starts getting too loopy I better go get some








Lauren


----------



## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Just clarify a bit for voting purposes...

Spam is defined, for the purposes of this discussion and poll, intentional solicitation of a product for increasing sales for oneself or for someone else. It is not a post to share one's sincere praise of a product. It is intentional advertising with no real intent to offer beneficial information.

In the case of option 4 - "Some members spam for each other or for their friends" - what we are seeing, or at least what we are perceiving is that someone needs a boost in sales or some attention directed toward their auctions so a post is made to draw attention to it (with a link) by another member-friend.


----------



## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

Lauren, posting about something that you personally purchased and enjoyed is OK. I also can relate to what you are saying about friends. We do become a close knit group here. However if WAHM STU were to e-mail you and say "Business is slow, would you talk about me/ link my auction", we would hope you would say no.

Make sense?


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Oh totally!

(







Did I like, just totally reveal my valley girl accent or something???)


----------



## BabyOsMommy (Jul 1, 2003)

I have often seen posts where it is obvious to me that someone is posting for someone else and it's spam. It doesn't actually bother me though, because I am free to check out the site or not, free to buy or not.


----------



## PDeSoToK (Sep 25, 2003)

I do *not* like SPAM.









I have no idea who knows who as far as WAHMs go. Until I began looking into cloth diapering and frequenting MDC, I had no idea that the term WAHM existed or that there were internet *malls* devoted to the products of WAHMs.

I guess now that I think about it, I have read messages which seemed to have a whiff of SPAM to them. I guess I'm not experienced enough to tell, with certainty, which messages are sincere and which are just there to boost someone's sales.

I have a low tolerance for any SPAM. I would hope I haven't made purchases from anyone encouraging others to SPAM for them.

That being said, I







MDC! I feel very much at home here. I have no problems following MDC guidelines as written. I haven't found them to be too restrictive or difficult to understand.


----------



## blessed2bamommie (Feb 3, 2003)

aren't there the rules to read before joining that discuss spam?







but, who reads *everything before they accept.







But, then when you get up here and do it, you get slammed and I guess then you shoulda read the rules. I don't agree with the nastiness. Its just not called for when *anyone breaks *any rule, it could be they forgot! I agree with Lauren, folks joining for the purpose of spamming someone else isn't right.







: I couldn't *sell my way out of a paper bag,that's not my personality, so that spam rubs me the wrong way. Now, if you've got an MDC mama who is an up and coming WAHM, I think its supportive for it to be announced here, even more so, if you have tried they're products, and you have a rave, isn't that what this forum is for? But, yeah, when you've got an obvious friend, I understand. If it was widely known that I was best friends with an MDC member and I came to spam her, that would be kinda cheesy IMO. Ok...I feel like I caught the ramble bug from Lauren, :LOL Hittin submit!


----------



## bigbellydreams (Feb 15, 2003)

I have to agree with everything Lauren said.

I don't want to see a thread that says I sell blah blah blah, but if someone asks who sells blah blah blah, I think it is fine for the seller to reply saying they do.
I think its ok too to promote a friends product if your doing it because you really like it. When we see a post for a rave and its from a member that has only a few or this was their first post, and then there are several more posts from brand new members as well, that is annoying, but I hope they will stick around and become active members.


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I see what I perceive to be as a LOT of spam. There are a lot of auction links, with someone saying "Look at how cute this auction is!" or "Why doesn't anyone buy this?" Someone may say that the auction is not theirs, but there is no way to verify that, nor is there any way to verify that the auction isn't spam. Most likely, long time members here legitimately saw something they thought others would be interested in, but I do often think others' intentions may be suspect.

There are people right now with auction links in their signatures, and that drives me nuts. I'm not sure if that's against the rules, as it appears as if they've paid the advertising fee to have a link to their business in the signature, but I've also noticed additional ebay auction links in these same people's signatures. I consider that to be spam.

I personally believe we should eliminate all auction links, as it's too difficult to tell if they're spam or not.


----------



## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Okay my main concern with this kind of 'rule' is how to tell what is spam and what isn't? I, for instance have a newsletter that informs people of sales/stocking/auctions and such, subscribed to the newsletter are friends, customers, and customers I consider friends now. If I were to announce by newsletter that I was having a sale on such and such and one of my 'friends' were to post about it here, would that be spam? I usually include a snippet about sharing the word in my newsletter but don't ask them to post here (or anywhere) about it. I figure if people like the product enough they will talk about it in their own time, but how would anyone know if it were just posted of someones free will or if it was 'spam'? Since it isn't the WAHM posting it, it would be very difficult to seperate the two without banning all linking to deals or whatever.

I have had friends that when talking to them about something come straight away and post it to every diapering board the can find, I haven't asked them to do this, but they spam it for me because they 1)like the products (they all have quite a few of my things and 2)they think they are helping spread the word and boosting sales. This isn't something I personally should be punished for now is it? Not to mention I have found that that type of spam doesn't seem to work at all. What works as far as boosting sales is having good product, having good customer service and well my Signature advertising has helped a lot as well.

ramble ramble ramble Lauren's diareaha of the fingers (







) is contagious~


----------



## blessed2bamommie (Feb 3, 2003)

Another side on the issue: I agree, because I guess there *isn't a way to verify, unless their auction name is recognizable. But, then again, someone might point you to something that *is so cute and you like!







But, there *have been some that have been quite suspect, here recently! I would hate to see them eliminated all together.....


----------



## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I think it is very hard to judge someone else's actions, or intent, and I think this board is relatively spam free, so I say, let things be. I like to hear about new products, and often the first people to try a new product are going to be the WAHM's friends. I see no problem with the way things are going, although, I agree with others, I hate when someone "spams" and gets "ripped a new one" for it, since we truly do not know the person's intent, if they were a repeat offender with spam, then I would think that could be taken care of by the mods. (or ignored







)


----------



## ignitor4 (Oct 8, 2002)

This is such a tough question, I think. On the one hand, I like having a "spam-free" board. But, I don't want it to go so far that people are afraid to recommend or give their opinion on something because it might be interpreted as spam. I guess I'm happy with WAHMs not being allowed to spam themselves, but I think it would be difficult to police friends spamming on behalf of them.

One thing to note is that when I see someone's recommendation for a place, that doesn't automatically mean I'm going to buy something there. I know that what works wonderfully for some doesn't work at all for others. I know the materials and style that work best for me, and so if the place has that and the price seems reasonable, I might give it a try.

I love seeing people's recommendations and checking out new places. There are LOTS of places I'd never have gone without those recommendations. I'd hate to see that kind of thing go down because people are afraid they might be spamming.

I only have one WAHM I keep in touch with somewhat. I guess you could say we're friends, though we've never met or talked except through email. I came to keep in touch with her because I genuinely love her products and they work well for us. I hope when I recommend her that isn't seen as spam. She has NEVER asked me to post anything (and if she did, I would lose respect for her as a WAHM). When I recommend her, it's because I have truly used and loved the product, not because she's a friend.

I know there's no guarantee that everyone has innocent intentions when they post, but as veganmamma said, I would hope that everyone here could see through blatant spam attempts. If there is evidence (not just suspicion) that a WAHM has specifically asked a member to spam, by all means get rid of it, but the rest I think we can all weed through and decide for ourselves.

I'm not a WAHM, so I speak from a consumer's perspective, but I'm comfortable with the guidelines as they are. I don't think I'd want them to get any more restricted, though. And I'm glad that we clarified the guidelines a while back so WAHMs can answer direct questions about their product. I think there are plenty of boards out there, so you can find what suits your taste or needs if MDC isn't fulfilling it. MDC is a wonderful information resource and I think it's also great for spotting the newest "trends" in diapering. :LOL If I'm looking for spam, I can either post here saying "spam me!" or I can look for other "spam-friendly" boards.

Wow, I think that's one of the longest posts I've ever done here! Thanks Cynthia for bringing this up for discussion. I'm looking forward to reading the other responses.


----------



## Amazlilith (Nov 10, 2002)

mellow spamming for a friend doesn't bother me when a direct question is asked. I just don't like the blantant ones and would prefer to keep the board clean of those.


----------



## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:

I see what I perceive to be as a LOT of spam. There are a lot of auction links, with someone saying "Look at how cute this auction is!" or "Why doesn't anyone buy this?" Someone may say that the auction is not theirs, but there is no way to verify that, nor is there any way to verify that the auction isn't spam. Most likely, long time members here legitimately saw something they thought others would be interested in, but I do often think others' intentions may be suspect.
I did this just the other day. I didn't know it was called spamming. I posted the link cause I thought the item was cute and wanted to share.
Sorry.
I have also when brought up by someone else asking praised a wahm's stuff(even shared my pics). I thought I was just giving my opinion. I wasn't spamming for anyone.
I'll be more careful of what I have to say now....


----------



## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

A couple of weeks ago or so, I thought that a post in response to "favorite diapers" was a SPAM, because the author was naming her own products but not identifying herself as the former or current maker of those products. This kind of blatent self-promotion is what the moderators of this board should be most concerned about.

Lots of people here love certain products and recommend them at every opportunity. Some of these people may be personal friends with the people that make them (but that doesn't make their enjoyment of the products any less). If a WAHM or anybody (e.g. posts in the trading post are somtimes linked, as are ebay or other auctions) asks others to SPAM, then s/he should be banned from the Boards.

But I don't believe that you can determine the difference between a post where somebody else is truly spamming as opposed to sincerely recommending a product or posting an unusual or cute auction, or anything else. You may "suspect", but I don't believe you can know. I also believe that if you try to make rules about what's "acceptable" other spamming and nonacceptable other spamming, that you will be wrong the vast majority of the time, probably in both directions: you will miss "clever" other spamming and you will mistakenly "accuse" well meaning people of spamming.

On this second point (on accusations), if you devise another rule and attempt to enforce it, your accusations will create a chilly climate here for discussion. People will start being afraid to recommend or talk about products and people who have been wrongly "spanked" will have hurt feelings and that will spill out into the board(s) and/or cause people to leave.

So, yes, I believe there probably is some wrongful "spamming" on this Board. Maybe some people do ask others to SPAM for them, and maybe some well meaning people SPAM for their WAHM friends a little more than they would if they weren't friends.

But I believe it would also be wrong for you to attempt to censor this type of SPAMing, because you cannot be accurate in your determinations. Right now, the rule is very clear-- you can't SPAM yourself, but you can talk or link or praise anybody's else's products to your heart's content. That's a very clear rule and one that makes sense here. I don't believe another rule is needed and if implemented, would have many more negative consequences than perhaps a few SPAM posts.

Karla


----------



## *~*SewHappyNow*~* (Sep 25, 2002)

I like that this board is not an all out spam fest.

I imagine my being a new WAHM makes my feedback seem subjective. Still my posting habits have not changed much from when I was not a WAHM. I do feel as though every post I make is going to be under suspicion and speculation now







That bothers me. This was my 'home' and I feel as though I am perhaps no longer welcome like before. I would hate to see guildlines that would mean WAHMs can no longer post in diapering









I however, do not like insincerity. Unethical situations really bug me. I hate that feeling I get in the pit of my stomach when I feel as though I am being 'played' by someone. I do not want to see posts like this. How do you know insincerity for sure, though? You really cannot know for sure can you? Look how many posts there are for SOS and Fuzbaby. Obviously these businesses need no boosting, however, who is to say that friends of these WAHMs aren't starting these threads or participating in these threads. There is no real way to know at all. If these WAHMs had never been mentioned on this board I know I would never have spent the hundreds (yes hundreds







) of dollars on their products that I have. Many WAHMs do have friends here. Many WAHMs have meet eacxh other and their customers. That is what makes being a diaper WAHM so special I think.

I do like knowing about new WAHMs and products and auctions I might not have seen unless they had been pointed out to me. I love seeing someone else's fluffy mail! I love sewing someone else's stash! This is so much fun for me.

If someone can come up with fair, black and white guidelines on what is spam and what isn't I am all for it, however, I don't really believe there is any way to do this completely and fairly.


----------



## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

hmmmm, well, since I haven't been around for very long, I'm not sure if my opinion counts, but....

I think there is a very fine line between spam and just innocent information.

If I saw posts like, "Check out my auctions" or "I'm having a sale" yadda yadda, I would be very put off. It doesn't bother me, but this being a non-spam board, it would bother me.

On the other hand, I see many posts that say... "(insert name of store here) is stocked!" or "Check out this cute auction!" And this is where one would wonder where the line is... I think this is people who really like the stores and want others to know .... just sharing information. I think it is part of the "hyena mindset" that when a store opens for instock items, they want to flock over.... I have no issues with that.

Also, when somebody plugs a newer wahm, I do run over there and buy something from them. I believe in supporting my fellow wahms, and love trying out other peoples creations. So.. since I am also a wahm, should I not mention other wahms? But... I never mention myself, even when somebody is looking for something that I carry! I may actually direct them to another wahm, because I know that she carries that item.

So, if I mention another wahm, I am not making any money or anything off of this mention... is that spam?

I would be very sad if wahms weren't allowed to mention other wahms, because I think that us pulling for each other and enjoying each others products gives us a strong sense of community. I'm so non-competitive... I just prefer for all of us to be successful, and when I really like another wahms product, I want to tell everybody about it!

And here is my other perspective... as a fairly new member of this community, I wasn't aware that there was a problem with spam! I have honestly thought that every post was just hyenas at their best, sharing their finds. Maybe I am just naive.

nak - and still managing to type out a book!

Teri


----------



## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I love when mamas reccomend a diaper or tell us how well a certain diaper worked for them. I have found several great diapers that way! It is sort of like the veteran hyena mamas passing their tried-and-true info on to us newbies.

I don't mind when a mama posts a link to a great new site or an auction. I can always check it out and decide for myself if it is something I want to buy. However, I do know what you mean about slightly spammy posts. Sometimes I' not sure if someone is posting a link to a site/auction because it is, in fact, a great product or if they are friendly with the seller. That is when I go and chek out the diaper for myself and make my own descision.

I think it would be a shame if we couldn't rave about great diapers on this site and post links. I have gotten so many great diapers (that I would have never known about) from links here on MDC.

I like to think that when a mom posts a link she is posting it because she truly does like the diaper. Not because she is friends with the seller.


----------



## kasumi (Apr 25, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by WickidaWitch_
*I did this just the other day. I didn't know it was called spamming. I posted the link cause I thought the item was cute and wanted to share.
Sorry.
*
I have done this too! If I see a lot of talk about needing cute seasonal dipes or something and I see the answer in an auction and post a link to it I had no idea it was considered 'spam'. Oh I wish I had friends who were diaper WAHMs, but alas I don't, so I guess I'll just not post anything specific anymore.. I'm sorry.


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

I don't have a problem with people recommending products AT ALL! That's a huge part of this board. There are several products that I recommend to people ALL THE TIME, and I don't consider it spam. I legitimately use and love the products and have never been asked by a WAHM to help advertise her stuff. I don't think that's what this issue is about. My personal issue is with auction links, as you cannot judge someone's intent or relationship to the auction.


----------



## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by WickidaWitch_
*I did this just the other day. I didn't know it was called spamming. I posted the link cause I thought the item was cute and wanted to share.
Sorry.
I have also when brought up by someone else asking praised a wahm's stuff(even shared my pics). I thought I was just giving my opinion. I wasn't spamming for anyone.
I'll be more careful of what I have to say now....*
Just a bit of clarification for you... It is NOT considered spam if you link to an auction or wahm that appeals to you. Our concern is for posts that point out a friend's auction -- not out of love for the product, but solely to boost a friend's hit count.

I think I speak for the majority when I say we love to see cute pix of new dipes your baby and learn from your experience! So keep those photos coming!

xoxo pam


----------



## Lizzie3143 (Feb 27, 2003)

ugh, do i need to go back and clarify my post from the other day? i am in no way shape or form affiliated with choochoobooties, i just love her dipes! i have a few of them now and when i seen that cute small lennon set i thought i'd share it with everyone so someone with a small baby could see it and snatch it up before *I* buy something that is too small for my dd. LOL

i like spam free boards. that is why i like mdc and parentsplace diapering boards. i have no problems when people post links to auctions or a sale at a store just as long as its not the wahm herself doing it. i love seeing everyone's favorite diapers and wahms. its neat to see how many different styles there are that fit different sized babies kwim? sometimes i would have never known about a wahm unless someone here posted link to an auction (especially ebay auctions, i never seem to find cool dipes on ebay too many yucky ones to wade through).


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

I love spam so a spam free board I personally find strange. But I do not like constant spamming, same person over and over spamming the same words over and over. Bluck! If any of my MDC friends were to ask me to tell everyone that they were open for orders etc etc, I would not refuse them. I do not think it is morally wrong and I feel it is good for the community for everyone to know whats what. People do not have to check out any links, they do not have to buy and so forth. But at least spam gives a mama a choice to check products out if nothing else. I personally do not find it bad if friends post for each other, I think it is good community spirit.


----------



## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

I hope I have never unintentially done this. I have some dipes and covers/great places to buy from that I really love and get excited about/rave about - but I've never been affiliated with anyone. I like auction links- I don't browse auctions and so would have missed a beautiful cover I won this summer if someone hadn't posted a link.

What I really don't like is unsolicited PM spam affering special deals/disocunts. I have gotten this only rarely. I know some new to the board WAHMs might not know the rules, but it still feels invasive.

Overall, I think that for a board this active, the moderators and members keep the diapering board pretty clean!


----------



## MaggiesMom (May 14, 2003)

This is a very grey area, IMO.

I posted something the other day that people might suspect to be spam. It wasn't. I love the diapers I got and wanted to lament over the beautiful diaper that (at auction) is now out of my price range. Could it have been perceived as spam? Yup, probably. I think that sometimes it is too hard to tell what truly _is_ spam and what isn't.

That said, I rely on recommendations from here for my diapering decisions, and appreciate genuine opinions. I don't care if someone IS friends with the WAHM she recommends, as long the assessment of the quality/value seems to be true. I just try to use my own judgement, and when I am suspicious, I just do a search on the member and check out their other posts to see if they only post about how great product x is. If they do, I think twice before taking what they say as truth.

I guess my point is it is probably most often NOT spam, but we all need to use our own judgement if it is not blatant spam.


----------



## detergentdiva (Oct 16, 2002)

I personally prefer the non-spam boards.


----------



## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by pamelamama_
*Just a bit of clarification for you... It is NOT considered spam if you link to an auction or wahm that appeals to you. Our concern is for posts that point out a friend's auction -- not out of love for the product, but solely to boost a friend's hit count.
xoxo pam*
I totally get what you mean ~but~
I wouldn't want some one out there in the end to "suspect me" of being a wahm's friend trying to boost her buisness.
Not trying to be cranky here or anything.


----------



## mamaBlue (May 27, 2003)

Quote:

I think there is a very fine line between spam and just innocent information.
I agree. For the most part it doesn't bother me. This is a tough subject. Let me try to explain by hypothetical examples:

Example 1: _'Diaper WAHM' send out a email to her list that says she's having a percent off sale. One of her customers on the email list races over to MDC and excitedly posts a thread about the deal. Woo Hoo!_

Example 2: _'Diaper WAHM' send out a email to her list that says she's having a percent off sale. A friend (often a friend met in chat or a fellow WAHM) posts a MDC thread about the deal to help spread the word._

Exapmle 1 doesn't bother me. Example 2 does. The problem is that there is no way to know which is which. Technically, neither is allowed, but Example 2 seems sneaky.

Here's another example:

Example 3: _'Diaper WAHM' is stocking! Go now!_

Really, this is spam. It is also most MDC mamas favorite threads(including me). I love seeing those threads. Then everyone comes back and talks about what goodies she bought/liked. If these kinds of posts weren't premitted on MDC, the board would get pretty boring.

*I guess my point is that things are best left the way they are, with the exception of outright ovboius spam being deleted (which i thinkit often is)*


----------



## Mom2Sailor (Sep 20, 2003)

Do I take this thread to mean that the MDC Mods are actually considering _increasing_ the spam policing?

As a new member who recently had her post removed due to a violation of the spam rules, I really think this place is on high alert already. My post made no mention of a product name or a business name, and contained no links.

And I too, have "found" WAHM websites through discussion here that I really appreciate knowing!

~Kira


----------



## engineer_mama (Aug 23, 2002)

As has been mentioned by several people, I think any increase in the spam policy will lead us into a gray and unhappy area. We already have several members on this thread apologizing for posting links to auctions that they noticed. I don't believe any apologies are necessary, and I, like many others, really like to see these threads and often go to take a gander at whatever auction is being mentioned. That's part of the fun of this board. While it may be that there is some covert spam going on, I don't think it's possible to stamp it out without simultaneously stamping out much of the enthusiasm and excitement we see on this board. I think we should err on the side of having a little covert spam rather than making posters afraid to post raves or auction links.

In other words, I think we should keep things just as they are.


----------



## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm happy to see someone posting when a wahm's company is newly stocked or is taking custom orders. I would probably have missed out on a few nice diapers otherwise. A couple of times I've had a question about a posted link, it just seemed a bit off, kwim? That said, I think in the long run we're still better off supporting a wahm than supporting the larger conglomerates. If it weren't for the diapering board here at MDC I'm not sure I'd be cding (or with such zeal :LOL)


----------



## Lizzie3143 (Feb 27, 2003)

i just thought of something. i don't mind seeing people post links to cute auctions (obviously since i do it whenever i see something too cute and want to share it with everyone) but its when people post to auctions or stores but they don't sign their name...ever, on any of their posts. THAT makes me nervous. makes me wonder who they are...is it the wahm herself? ya know what i mean?

don't mind me...my mind is racing, i just had 2 candy bars and a diet coke. LOL i'm all hyped up on caffeine and sugar. LOL


----------



## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

nak~
i would hate to think that i am being told such'n'such diaper is great when it actually isnt

on the other hand...

i would hate to not know about a great diaper bcz no one is allowed to tell me about it

so here's an idea:

full disclosure: if a poster is a WAHM, then that should be in their signature, that way everyone knows. whether there is slant or bias is up to the reader to decipher, but disclosure is just standard business ethics, yes?


----------



## Lizzie3143 (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SpiralWoman_
*so here's an idea:

full disclosure: if a poster is a WAHM, then that should be in their signature, that way everyone knows. whether there is slant or bias is up to the reader to decipher, but disclosure is just standard business ethics, yes?*
can i put something in my sig like " liz wahmama to my 3 kiddos" or to mention i am a wahm do i need to buy sig priviledges? anyhoo, when i come to mdc it is because i am a consumer not because i am a wahm so i guess i've never really thought of it before. i just like to come here and find out what everyone's buying and live vicariously through the fuz hyenas. LOL


----------



## MissSugarKane (Jun 19, 2003)

Well if everyone was like me and had no friends there wouldn't be a problem. :LOL


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MissSugarKane_
*Well if everyone was like me and had no friends there wouldn't be a problem. :LOL*
:LOL














:LOL














:LOL














You crack me up!!


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MissSugarKane_
*Well if everyone was like me and had no friends there wouldn't be a problem. :LOL*
yup that describes me too....


----------



## penny31 (Jul 21, 2003)

(sorry - broken arm)...
i wouldn't like unasked for spam (like full on ads - "announcing my wonderful new amazing self cleaning diaper, yours for just $29.99" or whatever), but i do like to be able to say - i am looking for a cute wetbag - or whatever and have some wahms spam me, as well as their customers who have raves or disses. i love all the auction links, even if they are spam - i don't have time to cruise all of ebay, all of wahmall, etc., so i love it when someone does the legwork for me. i am a big girl and can make up my own mind about what to buy even if i am spammed (ok i do need you all to tell me it is a good idea, lol). this board is quite rigid with it's rules about spam and about







T posting. i still love it and all, but it is a little intimidating. i still blush about my first







T post that got moved - and no i didn't read the rules, my bad... lol

xoxo


----------



## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

Well, now I am starting to wonder if what I post is spam.

I like to find new wahms and try their products... it's an obsession of mine. I also give them feedback about what I thought of their products....

So, I have recommended their products here too. Of course, I like the wahm... I have given them feedback, so we have emailed back and forth. And, my intention of posting about them is usually for two reasons... so that others can find other products out there, and to help my fellow wahms get their name seen. If I like their products, should I not mention their name?

I'm not making any money doing this... or friends for that manner. I don't gain anything but the satisfaction of knowing that I am supporting the "small guy".

I've also pointed out a couple of auctions. They weren't mine... I can assure you. If there is ever a doubt about an auction being mine, please tell me... I have never spammed one of mine.... and won't for that manner.

Now I'm all worried, though. I want to crawl back in to my cave.... I just hope that nobody has thought of anything I said as spam.

I come to this board as an advocate of using cloth diapers for the benefit of the environment and our babies. I am here while nursing, because my little pumpkin nurses every hour... for about 45 minutes, and a 2 hour stretch during the afternoon. :bf It's something I can do while nursing, that gives me a break from business.










nak - Teri


----------



## Matanuska Motherlode (Jun 30, 2003)

I'm a WAHM and I love to support other WAHMs. If someone is in need of a certain product, I would hate to think that I couldn't post a link in hopes of helping that person find what she's looking for.

If I have tried another WAHMs product and I like it, why in the world wouldn't I want to tell everyone else what a great experience I had?

I am a bargin shopper and LOVE checking the eBay links. I think it's too bad you can't spam your own auctions, because sometimes there are well over 1000 diaper listings! It's hard to get your stuff noticed when there are so many auctions to wade through...

I think the spam/posting rules are a little too harsh, but you can't please everyone all the time. If I want to spam a board about my business, I'll find another one


----------



## reeseccup (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by penny31_
*"announcing my wonderful new amazing self cleaning diaper, yours for just $29.99" or whatever

xoxo*








WHERE'D YA SEE THIS, tell me now, neeed to know SPAM ME SPAM ME


----------



## IslandMamma (Jun 12, 2003)

Nak...

I like things as they are. I just posted a link to a WAHM site on another thread, b/c I use her dipes and genuinely love them. Hope that's not seen as spam. Don't even know her.

I look to the Daily Diaper if I want to see direct from the WAHM promotion.

If it weren't for the threads of "so and so is stocking", I wouldn't have some of the awesome dipes I have! I love those threads, and I love hearing about new finds from people.

Don't like sneaky spam; love genuine raves and enthusiasm though.

nakety nak nak....


----------



## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

i wanted to add...
Spam to me is something unsolicited. If I say: "who makes the best side snap diapers for boys, absorbant & cute" I want to get 20 responses with links & why they like 'em, so I can go shopping. I think diapering is 75% a shoppers board 25% a how to board. Also, you can't go to target & get this stuff, so where/how to shop is part of the how to. Mamas come here to network, connect with mamas selling diapers & other stuff. that is the nature of it & in this case, buying diapers is advocating for diapers, kwim? So "spam" is part of that. Daily diaper is for sellers to directly introduce, plus I think if I knew a response was from a seller, I would be happy.


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I occasionally see posts that I suspect of spam, but usually I just ignore them(though I have been guilty of a







: here and there







). I like the way diapering is, I hope it stays the same. Now the thing that bugs me is people who only post once in a great while on other forums, just so they can use the trading post!! Grrr....


----------



## Aherne (Jun 26, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lifetapestry_
*A couple of weeks ago or so, I thought that a post in response to "favorite diapers" was a SPAM, because the author was naming her own products but not identifying herself as the former or current maker of those products. This kind of blatent self-promotion is what the moderators of this board should be most concerned about.

Karla*
Okay...







I dont think this was me so I think I can comment.

I make diapers and I sell my diapers. I also happen to use and really like my diapers. Not *just* cuz I make them. I abide by having my hands tied and not saying "hey everyone... isnt this adorable" but since it is part of my stash am I not allowed to talk about my own diapers so long as I dont say "oh and here is a link"

I think I should be allowed to say what products I used, even if they happen to be mine. Though I choose to say "I really like the diapers I make" I would think that falls under the rules since I dont say "I really like ______ diapers"

am I not reading the rules correctly?


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

I have typed up a few repsonses to this and keep just not posting it the chicken poop I am. But here it goes.

I see MDC sometimes as very cliqueish (however you spell it) to me. I have been trying my darndest to post and fit in and I do genuinely in hopes of becoming more of a member and getting to know everyone. I don't do it as a plug for my business. I donated to MDC because it is a place I like to come and chat even though I don't have any baby in diapers anymore I do have cloth diapering under my mothering belt. But yet I feel like an outsider most of the time. I can spam my groups and never has a mom come here to say so and so has stuff in stock. Which is FINE but sometimes I see these posts and have to go hmmm. I believe great service and great products will in time help spread the word. BUT if you can't reach people how can that happen??? I would love to be able to reply to a post asking for spam about a product that I do make or sell. But then again I see the point of having to pay for a sig and then wondering about those that do not but will still post to those spam requests. Kinda not right for those that have paid for the sig package. So I am kida torn. I love the lack of spam but also at times I think for buyers and consumers it would benefit for a bit of rule tweaking...

Ugh sorry for my typos. My 4yo wants to play a game so he is sitting here making this very hard to see what I am doing...


----------



## tuffykenwell (Oct 23, 2002)

Personally I think the MDC spamming guidelines are pretty harsh already. I have seen people jumped on and pulled to pieces for making a single mistake. I think that making the spamming guidelines even more stringent would probably cause a lot of people to find other places to post.

I appreciate not having to wade through 6 feet of "check out my auction" or "I'm having a sale" to get to some real posts....but....I think what you are talking about is a seriously grey issue and I wonder how on earth you would police it.

Part of giving great customer service is building relationships with your customers so often someone BECOMES a friend through the customer WAHM relationship. You send chatty emails back and forth discussing preferences blah blah blah. They try and love your work...they want everyone in the world to know about your products because they want you to be successful (cause if you quit they won't have any more diaper x LOL).

How do you determine who is spamming friends and who is being honest...I seriously think this is a pandora's box and it could get really messy...and ugly.

JMHO

Steph


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I just wanted to say I hear ya on the cliche thing. I also see you're point about the advertising...
On a fifferent note...I remember the first auction of your covers I ever saw. I posted it on MDC.







I think they are beautiful, and wish I could afford one.









Quote:

_Originally posted by mommytomy4kids_
*
I see MDC sometimes as very cliqueish (however you spell it) to me. I have been trying my darndest to post and fit in and I do genuinely in hopes of becoming more of a member and getting to know everyone. I don't do it as a plug for my business. I donated to MDC because it is a place I like to come and chat even though I don't have any baby in diapers anymore I do have cloth diapering under my mothering belt. But yet I feel like an outsider most of the time. I can spam my groups and never has a mom come here to say so and so has stuff in stock. Which is FINE but sometimes I see these posts and have to go hmmm. I believe great service and great products will in time help spread the word. BUT if you can't reach people how can that happen??? I would love to be able to reply to a post asking for spam about a product that I do make or sell. But then again I see the point of having to pay for a sig and then wondering about those that do not but will still post to those spam requests. Kinda not right for those that have paid for the sig package. So I am kida torn. I love the lack of spam but also at times I think for buyers and consumers it would benefit for a bit of rule tweaking...

*


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

and I hope it does not change in a way where people are afraid to post about other wahms products. I sometimes feel I cannot say what I would like to but then such is life offline too. You cannot always say what is on your mind without hurting others. We are all human and imperfect. I think as long as everyone tries to follow the rules already set forth I do not see the need to go beneath the surface and start pointing fingers and making people feel badly for posting something that might be totally innocent but be misconstrude <-bad spelling. I like this place and I think we should all be free to post without fears.


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamamoo_
*I just wanted to say I hear ya on the cliche thing. I also see you're point about the advertising...
On a fifferent note...I remember the first auction of your covers I ever saw. I posted it on MDC.







I think they are beautiful, and wish I could afford one.







*
Yes, I agree that there is a cliche but not just one, there are various ones here. IT is part of all communities online or otherwise. I like spam but I dislike the same individuals constantly spaming groups too. There must be a happy medium somewhere and I thought it was here already. LOL!


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by DreamingMama_
*Yes, I agree that there is a cliche but not just one, there are various ones here. IT is part of all communities online or otherwise. I like spam but I dislike the same individuals constantly spaming groups too. There must be a happy medium somewhere and I thought it was here already. LOL!*
Very true!!!


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I agree Kathleen. MDC is, by far, the best online community I have found. I think generally we are all pretty considerate of each other, and the rules(we all have an off day here and there). I think you are right though when you say that we do have it here!









Quote:

_Originally posted by DreamingMama_
*Yes, I agree that there is a cliche but not just one, there are various ones here. IT is part of all communities online or otherwise. I like spam but I dislike the same individuals constantly spaming groups too. There must be a happy medium somewhere and I thought it was here already. LOL!*


----------



## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

I agree that this is a nice community.


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MamaMonica_
*I agree that this is a nice community.







*


----------



## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mommytomy4kids_
*







*
Mee threee!! :LOL


----------



## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

OK I would like to address a few issues here and dispel some myths.

Many of you have mentioned posting links to auctions on Ebay(not your own) and mentioning WAHM stockings (that sounds cute, doesn't it?) and are concerned about it being considered spam. We (the moderators and administrators) do NOT view this as spam.
What we consider spam is
a.) a WAHM posting links to her store/auctions.
b.) a WAHM blatantly drawing attention to her product (see below).
c.) a WAHM posting with the sole purpose of gaining revenue from the members here(without wanting to be part of the community). This is not to say that WAHMs are not allowed to post. We LOVE the WAHMs here, you are a huge important part of the community.

I agree with the posters who have stated that this board is partially about shopping. I have been posting on this board a lot longer than I have been a mod and I am first and foremost, a member of the community. I enjoy seeing the reviews of new dipes and have fun *running* when a store is stocked.

As for WAHMs being able to name their own dipes in "What's in your stash?" threads or favorite diapers threads. It would be OK if MamaA maker of XYZ Dipes said, "I have ABC Dipes, TUV Dipes and XYZ Dipes." It would NOT be OK to say, " I only use XYZ dipes, which I make." Do you see the difference? I understand that it is a fine line but I think that most people can see the difference.

A tip for the WAHMs about getting your name out. When you have a customer express happiness with your product, ask them to tell their friends. There is no more honest way to get the Hyenas here to check out new dipes than from a good review.

I have seen many of you post that you are concerned that we are talking about you. Don't be so paranoid!! LOL This is an issue we keep revisiting to make sure we are doing the best possible job we can to keep this board the way our members want it. If you are concerned or confused about any of the rules or are questioning whether it is OK to post something, PM me. I am more than happy to clarify things for you. Do nat take this poll personally.


----------



## Bugga (Jul 11, 2003)

Thumbs up to you Kathleen. I agree also.

You always have insightful things to say. I think you are a gentle voice of reason and a wonderful member of this group.


----------



## penny31 (Jul 21, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by reeseccup_
*







WHERE'D YA SEE THIS, tell me now, neeed to know SPAM ME SPAM ME














*
:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL


----------



## Rising Sun (Sep 15, 2003)

I have to say that I have found this group to be a wonderful source of information. I had never heard of Calgon water softener, but have a hard water problem, so I grabbed some from the store and have been using it since. I never thought of trimming my prefolds, didn't think a snappi could possibly be easy to use, and even had inspiration from a post about silk and the bad things about it.

This group is great, and we can learn many, many things from sticking around here. I am very impressed. I have even learned a ton about wool that I didn't know!

I've had fun seeing pics of babes in cute covers, and reading stories about diaper successes and woes.

I really think this group is IT.... it's perfect the way it is. I wouldn't change a thing, but maybe continue to add more mamas.

I'm really happy to be here... I just had to say that. I've been too sappy lately, I know.

nak - yes, again!

Teri


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Tree Huggin Hippie_
*I have to say that I have found this group to be a wonderful source of information. I had never heard of Calgon water softener, but have a hard water problem, so I grabbed some from the store and have been using it since. I never thought of trimming my prefolds, didn't think a snappi could possibly be easy to use, and even had inspiration from a post about silk and the bad things about it.

This group is great, and we can learn many, many things from sticking around here. I am very impressed. I have even learned a ton about wool that I didn't know!

I've had fun seeing pics of babes in cute covers, and reading stories about diaper successes and woes.

I really think this group is IT.... it's perfect the way it is. I wouldn't change a thing, but maybe continue to add more mamas.

I'm really happy to be here... I just had to say that. I've been too sappy lately, I know.

nak - yes, again!

Teri*
Can I be a sap too??


----------



## mommytomy4kids (Apr 3, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mamamoo_
*I just wanted to say I hear ya on the cliche thing. I also see you're point about the advertising...
On a fifferent note...I remember the first auction of your covers I ever saw. I posted it on MDC.







I think they are beautiful, and wish I could afford one.







*
Aww thanks!


----------



## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

This is how I see it:

(1) Some people routinely post "X store is stocked" or "look at this auction" because it's how they share the joy-- not to increase sales for a friend. Doesn't bother me.

(2) Some people (like me) love a product so much that they get to know the WAHM (multiple orders) and become friends to varying degrees. In this case, the admiration for the product has _preceeded_ the friendship, so I consider it to be a more unbiased review of the product. However, even if it were the other way around, I think we all ultimately use what works for us/buy from someone reputable, and if it didn't, we just wouldn't recommend the product even if the maker/seller were a friend. So, I tend to trust reviews regardless of the friendship aspect.

(3) I LOVE the siggys with advertising. It's so much easier for me to see the latest product or find out about a sale this way versus looking through all the ads of the Daily Diaper. Sure, it's spam, but it's PAID spam, which supports MDC. Win-win situation.

Overall, I think the MDC diapering board is run very fairly, and considering that one of the major aspects of this topic "is" shopping, the unruly spam is kept very well at bay.
















Edited to say, I love your covers, too, Sherry, and wish I needed a soaker!


----------



## SpiralWoman (Jul 2, 2002)

here's an example & a question:
okay, no example bcz I'm not supposed to remark about other threads or posts...so...

let's say there was a thread called...um... "who doesn't charge tax?" The OP wants to know to help with her diaper buying decisions. Can't a WAHM respond herself to that? it's a legitimate request for info, right?

IMO, from the MDC point of view, all WAHMs should pay a little something bcz the biz they can generate here is pretty good. Then they wouldn't have to unspam or psuedospam. This is like a permanent booth @ a craft fair & that costs $, yk? Instead of having it be an option, make it a requirement to pay for your sig. or no talking about your dipes at all. Well, I have no idea how much it costs for that, just brainstorming, don't hate me all you wonderful WAHMs!

As far as policing the "friends" thing, if someone is posting solely about how great BoozyButts are, *never* posting anywhere else or contributing anything helpful, then just boot 'em, what did we lose?








T sorry I keep reposting, but this is very interesting to me. Plus I am trying not to go order some custom diapers. Ever hear the saying "if you keep hanging out at the Barber shop, you're gonna get a haircut?" Oops, I think I'm gonna get a haircut!


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm a picture freak. When I purchase a new diaper for Kenny I immediately take a picture and want to come and post it here on the boards. There are hardly any IRL people that understand my strange passion for wonderful cloth diapers and covers, BUT YOU GUYS DO! I have never considered that to be spamming.

Now, if 'x' momma sent me 'x' diaper to put on Kenny's bum with a specific directive to post a picture at MDC in exchange . . . THAT would be spammish, but the only person that would know about it would be 'x' momma and me. And so, I understand LifeTapestry's comment that it would be difficult to police and there could be wrong assumptions going either way.

The same applies for favorite diapers. I have favorite diapers and I have favorite covers. I regularly will encourage newbies to try a specific cover and if I see an auction or get a new diaper/cover from one of those few stores, I come here and rave about it. Since I am paying for these diapers and covers I feel free to do so. If however, there was an understanding that I was getting a free diaper in return for spamming . . . that would be wrong.

But then, one must consider 'tester' diapers. Many mommas here at MDC start up their own diapering business after becoming crazed hyenas and they may send out a few diapers/covers for free to get a feel for how their diaper fits different babies. And as the first time tester of 'said' diaper I might feel inclined to post a picture and explain what I truly like about the diaper and because, as another member has mentioned, I prefer to support MDC mommas. But even when I try new diapers I still find I have my favorites. For instance, Firefly diapers - I love them - they fit Kenny absolutely perfectly - and so, I have a tendency to encourage mommas that boast of chunkmeisters like my Kenny. I am encouraged that if they try the FF diaper, they'll get a perfect fit and be happy like I am. No kickbacks from Lori (I assure you) in that arena, but the joy of having shared.

With all that said, I am frustrated when I see two WAHMs in what seems like a repeated exchange of 'support' for each other's businesses. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what they purchased, etc. . . but instead, "Oh, Bubble-Bum Diapers carry those" or "Bubble-Bums is having a Baker's Dozen Sale." If it was just once, I wouldn't notice it, but when it is repetitive it becomes obvious to regular members. I have often directed members to a WAHM's site that even carries the same items we do because I was out of stock or they are offering 'free shipping' on all items whereas I do not. To me, this is just a community favor - networking, so to speak. BUT AGAIN . . . it is so very hard to KNOW intent. Because really, in a situation like that I am doing it to help both the member AND the WAHM.

Regarding being sensitive to new members who spam, I definitely agree that tactfulness is a good approach. However, I would not be offended as a new member if someone PM'ed me - as Lauren suggested - to direct me to the guidelines. I would probably RACE to edit my post in such a situation. I am often confused how someone can join a community without understanding/reviewing the guidelines. I have a tendency to want to know what is expected of me in my involvement within a community - because I might not agree with it and therefore, not desire to be an active member.


----------



## allformyboys (Jun 17, 2003)

Quote:

As for WAHMs being able to name their own dipes in "What's in your stash?" threads or favorite diapers threads. It would be OK if MamaA maker of XYZ Dipes said, "I have ABC Dipes, TUV Dipes and XYZ Dipes." It would NOT be OK to say, " I only use XYZ dipes, which I make." Do you see the difference? I understand that it is a fine line but I think that most people can see the difference.
I am going to have to claim totally







: on this one, wouldn't it be WORSE for a WAHM (that makes XYZ diapers) to list her stash of XYZ diapers and NOT disclose that she was the WAHM that made them? I mean I think everyone knows the name of my business, and when I list my stash I list the diapers/soakers I have made myself, sometimes I list them as 'my business name' diapers or soakers or whatever, sometimes I just list them as homemade diapers or soakers or whatever. But I do also include that I made those diapers and that is why I have so many or whatever. So isn't it a little sneaky for someone to list what they have (or love) and not disclose that they are the WAHM that makes them?

If I am understanding what you were trying to say, maybe you meant that it is fine for her to list the diapers that she has-listing them by name, but not okay for her to draw attention to the fact that she makes them? if that is the case then I am guilty of that one, I just figured it was only fair to let people know that the reason I had so many of that brand is because they are essentially free to me, LOL there by kinda discounting my review of them because it is totally biased? (at least that was how I viewed it-) a self review anything other than the straight facts of what a diaper is (3 layers of this 2 of that lined with this) from a WAHM about her own diaper is basically useless to me. Because, frankly I can't see a WAHM that wouldn't like her diapers best? I mean why would you make a diaper that you didn't LOVE? wouldn't the diaper you make be your basic dream diaper? which is why there are so many different diapers because we all have different favorites and different loves? So of COURSE a WAHM is going to love her own diapers, they are what she looks for in general in a diaper right? (not that we don't love to try out other things)

From now on in stash threads if I choose to post I will list only the brand names of my diapers. I am sorry I have broke that spam line!


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:

I think I should be allowed to say what products I used, even if they happen to be mine. Though I choose to say "I really like the diapers I make" I would think that falls under the rules since I dont say "I really like ______ diapers"
It's true, I am afraid to talk about products I love because I work with that WAHM on my site- even if I don't carry that particular product, I am afraid it will be read as spam since I carry something of theirs, or if I say xyz insert is more absorbant than abc insert, even if I carry both I am afraid someone will post after me that I suck and am a spammer, when I really just want to state my opinion. I think part of that is because I have seen people get torn apart for perceived and actual spamming. I don't feel like I have to walk on eggshells because of overmoderating, i feel like I have to walk on eggshells because somone might follow up my post with a nasty note. The worst part is, even if I edit my post, they won't, so their nasty comment would be below mine, even if everything was all cleared up.

I really think the nasty notes after spam or perceived spam should be edited as well, and mods who are on the lookout for spam should be on the lookout for those kinds of posts too. I recently saw one, and it's sharp tone made me wince.

Once a member misunderstood an OP in a post in another forum. She attacked the OP and was way out of line, IMO. I called her on it in the thread and when she edited her posts, I edited mine so that once the misunderstanding was cleared up, no one would think bad stuff about her.

I don't think the boards are overmoderated, I think that there is a good balance here. I do think that spam is pretty well under control- if we see it, it gets edited right away, what more can you do?

Also, the idea about all WAHMs having mandatory paid links in their sig- That is SO unfair! What if I were a diaper wahm and I didn't want to pay for advertising here? I would not be interested in coming to a boards that I could be kicked off of for not paying just because I made or sold dipes. I don't think that we should pay to spam either, our sig line advertising should be enough. I think the sig line advertisign is really tasteful and nice, but if I chose not to have it, I shouldn't have to censor myself. I mean shot, since I became a WAHM I have to censor myself enough as it is.

Quote:

With all that said, I am frustrated when I see two WAHMs in what seems like a repeated exchange of 'support' for each other's businesses. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what they purchased, etc. . . but instead, "Oh, Bubble-Bum Diapers carry those" or "Bubble-Bums is having a Baker's Dozen Sale."
I always say stuff like that baout my fave WAHMs, I want them to do well, since they have served me so well with great products. I agree it would be hard to police, since I think the mojority have good intentions.

Anyway, I like things the way they are. :LOL Pretty conservative for a liberal like me!
:LOL
Lauren


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by tnrsmom_
*OK I would like to address a few issues here and dispel some myths.

Many of you have mentioned posting links to auctions on Ebay(not your own) and mentioning WAHM stockings (that sounds cute, doesn't it?) and are concerned about it being considered spam. We (the moderators and administrators) do NOT view this as spam.
What we consider spam is
a.) a WAHM posting links to her store/auctions.
b.) a WAHM blatantly drawing attention to her product (see below).
c.) a WAHM posting with the sole purpose of gaining revenue from the members here(without wanting to be part of the community).*
I'm confused. In Cynthia's initial post, she said the concern was about "covert spam" in terms of a friend spamming the board to help another friend. Is that not the concern anymore?


----------



## Artisan (Aug 24, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Cynthia Mosher_
*

However, we have also noticed what seems to be repetitive covert spam by some members on behalf of others.
*
Sorry, I didn't know how to do two quotes in one post. I don't think WAHMs spamming themselves is a big problem -- most people are pretty low key and follow the rules. I think the covert spamming is a bigger problem.

But I do love this board. And we will never reach a point where everyone is happy with everything. So I'm going to be quiet now.


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Marnie and others . . . there really isn't a 'spam' line with regards to the "Name Your Favorites." In the past, I have seen WAHMs just not respond to those threads, because as you said, THEIR diapers ARE their favorite (it is the reason they sew diapers - they feel they have found a better way). It is much easier for WAHMs that retail (not sew) diapers to list diapers that they 'sell,' than those that 'sew and sell.' Geez . . . speaking of intricacies in wording.

Example: (This is not spam, I swear :LOL ). Okay, my favorite everyday cover is the Whisper Pant. It has always been - since before I knew anyone else cloth diapered







ag - and yes, my business sells them. However, when I list that Kenny has (6) Medium Whisper Pants no one thinks "Ummmmm . . . Heather is spamming herself." Well, I don't *think* that is considered. However, if, say . . . I was the MAKER of the Whisper Pant, it would seem that I was spamming to some. Though as we can see in this thread - perceptions vary widely and wildly!









It seems that it is only fair that WAHMs that sew and sell can respond as well to these threads, but not in a spamming nature. Just listing them with the name-brand would be sufficient, because if someone goes looking for them, they'll see it is of your design. But to say, "Well, I prefer the 'Handy-High-Rise Diaper' that we SELL in our STORE" . . . then the perception is that a WAHM is doing more than just answering the question.

But I really think this poll has less to do with how WAHMs individually handle their spam and more with spam agreements between friends/stores/WAHMs - am I getting this right? I really think that as individuals in our own businesses, that the WAHMs that are active/post here are relatively respectful overall of the non-spam policy.


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sharonal_
*Sorry, I didn't know how to do two quotes in one post. I don't think WAHMs spamming themselves is a big problem -- most people are pretty low key and follow the rules. I think the covert spamming is a bigger problem.

But I do love this board. And we will never reach a point where everyone is happy with everything. So I'm going to be quiet now.







*








This is what I'm getting from the OP as well.


----------



## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

ITA with everything Heather said in both her posts


----------



## apmama_in_pa (Jul 4, 2003)

I don't post as often as I should, but I like the fact that this board is full of spam all the time. I too have posted an auction of what I thought was a really cute diaper and was in no way meaning it was spam.

Having said that though, I really like getting recommendations from the mamas here. I think it is fine to say, well I bought such and such as so and so's site. I think that is what makes this such a great community and one of the reason I come here. (Too find the really cute and good dipes!) I think that this board is great even with the little bit of spam I have seen.

Take Care,


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

The whisper Pant, huh Heather??









Don't you sell that in your store? You spammer, you.
:LOL
L


----------



## DreamingMama (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by HeatherSanders_
*Marnie and others . . . there really isn't a 'spam' line with regards to the "Name Your Favorites." In the past, I have seen WAHMs just not respond to those threads, because as you said, THEIR diapers ARE their favorite (it is the reason they sew diapers - they feel they have found a better way). It is much easier for WAHMs that retail (not sew) diapers to list diapers that they 'sell,' than those that 'sew and sell.' Geez . . . speaking of intricacies in wording.

*
I guess I am weird cause my favourite diapers are not my own diapers........LOL! I am like the shoemaker who sells beautiful shoes to everyone but does not have any shoes to wear. I am not sure why I am this way but say lavee, oblagee oblagon life goes on.


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by veganmamma_
*The whisper Pant, huh Heather??









Don't you sell that in your store? You spammer, you.
:LOL
L*
Phbbbbthhhh







ag :LOL

I love that I can always count on Lauren for sarcasm!







:LOL


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by DreamingMama_
*I guess I am weird cause my favourite diapers are not my own diapers........LOL! I am like the shoemaker who sells beautiful shoes to everyone but does not have any shoes to wear. I am not sure why I am this way but say lavee, oblagee oblagon life goes on.







*
And Kathleen, there are a couple of WAHMs that are REALLY, REALLY happy about this! :LOL


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:

I love that I can always count on Lauren for sarcasm!
I don't know what you're talking about, I have never been sarcastic in my life!

:LOL
L


----------



## WickidaWitch (Feb 16, 2002)

Quote:

But then, one must consider 'tester' diapers. Many mommas here at MDC start up their own diapering business after becoming crazed hyenas and they may send out a few diapers/covers for free to get a feel for how their diaper fits different babies. And as the first time tester of 'said' diaper I might feel inclined to post a picture and explain what I truly like about the diaper and because, as another member has mentioned, I prefer to support MDC mommas.
Shouldn't something like this be in the Diapering review or the Daily Diaper?
Tester could always post in one of those places and Start a thread in the main forum saying "Look at my review on this new diaper in Diapering Reviews"
After writing that and reading it to myself it still sounds like that fine spam line is there but at least the actual review would be in the right sub-forum, right?


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by WickidaWitch_
*Shouldn't something like this be in the Diapering review or the Daily Diaper?*
Now THAT is a good point!


----------



## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)

I'm glad Heather was online last night, looooooooooooooong after I went to bed.









Sharon, I brought up the part of what is considered spam because I felt as though a lot of people were getting nervous and wanted to make it clear that it was NOT the issue. Yes the covert spam is also an issue. If Heather came here and started talking about the store her best friend was opening and posted once a week what special she was running, that would be covert spam. I think we would probably just ban her though, she's not really liked around here anyway.


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by tnrsmom_
*I think we woud probably just ban her though, she's not really liked around here anyway.







*































j/j


----------



## tnrsmom (Apr 8, 2002)




----------



## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

The only thing "spammish" that I have seen and seemed to stuck out at me was when someone posts something like : " ______ Is open now!!" with an accompanying link.
Other than that I have not noticed anything.
It doesn't bother me though, but I think it is kind of obvious the person is spamming.


----------



## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

I've only purchased from two WAHMs. Both are MDC members. One I knew was a member, one I did not until after the sale.

Chances are, the next time I make a purchase it will be from a MDC WAHM because of all the positive posts about them and their products. Who needs to go elsewhere?









If I learn from this board that a certain WAHM has great diapers, great customer service and is a hell of a nice person to boot, all the more reason to support them. I'd much rather put money in the pocket of sometime I know to be kind and caring than someone I've never heard of.

And frankly, I think it's nice that WAHMs support each other instead of trying to "steal" business from one another. I'd rather see some random spam than a WAHM saying that another WAHM's product blows.


----------



## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Thank you all for your votes and your input. There have been many very good suggestions made which we appreciate. I would like to address a few things mentioned that I thought were excellent points, some in need of clarification and reiterated as a reminder. Sorry for the length but I think these are important issues to cover.

1-

Quote:



nasty comments in threads when there is spam


We have seen this and yes, agree that it should not be occurring. What should happen is this: ignore it on the board but report it to the moderators. Let us handle it. That's the rules of the board anyway - to not take things into your own hands but rather to report it so we may do so. If a person were to post and ask about spam it would be fine for a member to point her to the rules and tell her about our spam policies. But general spammy posts should simply be reported. I think Lauren's way of PMing the newbie to say welcome and let her know spam is not cool here is fine also and a very nice thing to do.







And this:

Quote:



I really think the nasty notes after spam or perceived spam should be edited as well, and mods who are on the lookout for spam should be on the lookout for those kinds of posts too. I recently saw one, and it's sharp tone made me wince.


Yes, posts made in comment to spam should be edited out as well and I'll remind the moderators to make sure that happens or to remove the posts.

2-

Quote:



I have often seen posts where it is obvious to me that someone is posting for someone else and it's spam. It doesn't actually bother me though, because I am free to check out the site or not, free to buy or not.



Quote:



i am a big girl and can make up my own mind about what to buy even if i am spammed (ok i do need you all to tell me it is a good idea, lol). this board is quite rigid with it's rules about spam and about posting. i still love it and all, but it is a little intimidating.


Very true but we have quite a different position. The boards are, by general rule, spam free and we strive to keep them that way. The Diapering board is by far our challenge, due to its very nature of discussing and sharing info about products, so we often struggle with the spam issue. Why is spam such a big concern? It is a fact that the majority of the revenue that comes into the community chest and the board advertising comes from WAHMs. While we protect no one WAHM in particular through the enforcement of our spam policies we do protect MDC in making sure that members advertise their goods and businesses through our permitted advertising - business signature advertising, The Daily Diaper, WAHM Connect, banner ads, and auctions.

Those of you who have been members since September of last year may remember Peggy O'Mara's call for help here on the boards. Mothering, not a cash cow by any means, was struggling financially and MDC was under threat of closure because there simply wasn't enough money to go around to justify the expense of running it. The community was asked to help in whatever way they could - Community Chest donations and advertising were the new additions to the boards then as fundraissing projects to keep MDC open and free for us all. The advertising flopped terribly because, as WAHMs told us, it was not worth the expense to advertise when so many others were getting free advertising through their posts and that of members out to help them spread their word for them. That was the wake up call for us that Diapering needed a close look which resulted in stricter spam guidelines. Once we did that and opened up paths for sincere raves (and rants), our reputation against spam became known and respected, the Diapering board became an extremely popular hangout AND a great place to advertise. This has contributed greatly to MDC's continued existence. While we still are challenged to make ends meet every month and we are facing increasing expenses in the form of a direly needed upgrade we are far better off than we were this month last year and often come close to self sufficiency in creating revenue and paying for the board expenses. We tip our hats to the WAHMs who have chosen to legitimately advertise here at MDC and we must be diligent in preventing those who do not do so from using the board inappropriately for their own advertising benefit or that of others.

3-

Quote:



if someone asks who sells blah blah blah, I think it is fine for the seller to reply saying they do.


Our guidelines are that a WAHM can reply by PM to that person. Why? Because posting to say I sell this or that, even when she did not initiate the thead, is advertising when it comes from the WAHM herself so the line drawn is very clear and across the board. Even those who pay for advertising are not permitted to post in this manner. While a member could respond to say "Oh, you can get that from babybutts.com" a WAHM should not, whether a paying advertiser or not. And a member should not do it diligently to help advertise for a WAHM, which is why you'll often see some of the members say "You can get it from W, X, Y or Z.com". It keeps things balanced and conveys their intention to share info, not promote one WAHM.









Or in the case of this one:

Quote:



who doesn't charge tax?" The OP wants to know to help with her diaper buying decisions. Can't a WAHM respond herself to that? it's a legitimate request for info, right?


Same thing. The WAHM can do so privately by PM as the request to be spammed was made by the poster. But spamming one's biz or product on the board is not permitted. So to PM it goes.

4-

Quote:



There are a lot of auction links, with someone saying "Look at how cute this auction is!" or "Why doesn't anyone buy this?"


This is one of the things we are seeing and keeping a close eye on. It is very very difficult to tell when it is spam for a WAHM friend and when it is just a sincere "Oooh look what I found" which is entirely innocent and a fun part of sharing on the boards (like WickidaWitch mentioned herself doing which is welcomed and not being criticized). We really don't want to get into the business of judging people's intentions and underlying reasons. But we are seeing it a repetitive practice by a few members posting for the same WAHMs and something we must address privately with them. We will not be placing any further stringency in our policies though. No worries there.









5-

Quote:



There are people right now with auction links in their signatures, and that drives me nuts. I'm not sure if that's against the rules, as it appears as if they've paid the advertising fee to have a link to their business in the signature, but I've also noticed additional ebay auction links in these same people's signatures. I consider that to be spam.


If their business is auction based and they have paid for a signature advertising package then it is okay. If you report it we'll check it out.









6-

Quote:



Okay my main concern with this kind of 'rule' is how to tell what is spam and what isn't? I, for instance have a newsletter that informs people of sales/stocking/auctions and such, subscribed to the newsletter are friends, customers, and customers I consider friends now. If I were to announce by newsletter that I was having a sale on such and such and one of my 'friends' were to post about it here, would that be spam? I usually include a snippet about sharing the word in my newsletter but don't ask them to post here (or anywhere) about it. I figure if people like the product enough they will talk about it in their own time, but how would anyone know if it were just posted of someones free will or if it was 'spam'? Since it isn't the WAHM posting it, it would be very difficult to seperate the two without banning all linking to deals or whatever.


We can't really know. But if it were a repetitive thing - if a member regularly posts to announce your info then yes, we'd ask for it to stop. It is advertising for you on a regular basis. That's a bit different than one of your newsletter readers coming across a special you're offering this month that excites her and telling her friends here about it.

This is similar:

Quote:



I have had friends that when talking to them about something come straight away and post it to every diapering board the can find, I haven't asked them to do this, but they spam it for me because they 1)like the products (they all have quite a few of my things and 2)they think they are helping spread the word and boosting sales. This isn't something I personally should be punished for now is it? Not to mention I have found that that type of spam doesn't seem to work at all. What works as far as boosting sales is having good product, having good customer service and well my Signature advertising has helped a lot as well.


Just on the face of things it does appear to be spam for you by your friends. YOU wouldn't be to blame for it, But if we came to know that a WAHM had encouraged it, asked for it, or otherwise contributed to it being done we'd want to talk to her about that and ask her friends to refrain from such posting. If we see it occuring with regular devotion by a particular member we will question it with the member privately.

7-

Quote:



Well, now I am starting to wonder if what I post is spam.

I like to find new wahms and try their products... it's an obsession of mine. I also give them feedback about what I thought of their products....

So, I have recommended their products here too. Of course, I like the wahm... I have given them feedback, so we have emailed back and forth. And, my intention of posting about them is usually for two reasons... so that others can find other products out there, and to help my fellow wahms get their name seen. If I like their products, should I not mention their name?


In general, yes. It is fine to mention their name and the product that you like so much in the context of a discussion. But we do have a responsibility to take note of what we see as repetitive spam by the same member. Why? Because the boards are not meant to be used as free advertising for WAHMs and if your intention is to advertise for her then you are stepping into what we regard as spam. While we tend to be very laid back about this because the Diapering board is so much about sharing info we also have to keep in mind that some posts are with a promotional intent. If you really want to help the WAHM get her name out there do it in a legitimate way that benefits her and MDC - take out a signature ad for a month or 3 or 12 and advertise for her. Post positively for her in the Diapering Reviews. Encourage her to advertise here for herself.

8-

Quote:



If I have tried another WAHMs product and I like it, why in the world wouldn't I want to tell everyone else what a great experience I had? I think it's too bad you can't spam your own auctions, because sometimes there are well over 1000 diaper listings! It's hard to get your stuff noticed when there are so many auctions to wade through...


You could do so quite appropriately in Diapering Reviews. A member can advertise her auctions (if that is her business venue) by paying for a sig advertisement and posting as a contributing member of the community. But to place it on the boards as a new thread or in a thread of disccussion with the intention to spam members and get the word out for a WAHM friend is inappropriate and entirely against our rules. As one member said: "I look to the Daily Diaper if I want to see direct from the WAHM promotion." And don't forget the Mothering Auctions. We place a banner for the donator in the banner rotation to advertise her donation as well as the advertising she is permitted in the auction listing for her item. It is a very good way for an up and coming WAHM to get noticed for the cost of an item donation.

9-

Quote:



I believe great service and great products will in time help spread the word. BUT if you can't reach people how can that happen??? I would love to be able to reply to a post asking for spam about a product that I do make or sell. But then again I see the point of having to pay for a sig and then wondering about those that do not but will still post to those spam requests. Kinda not right for those that have paid for the sig package. So I am kida torn. I love the lack of spam but also at times I think for buyers and consumers it would benefit for a bit of rule tweaking..


If someone posts asking for spam the appropriate response for a WAHM is to reply by PM. That addresses the member's request for info and serves the WAHM in gettting the message to the person but at the same time keeps her within our rules. So you can reply, just not on the board.









I do apologize if my opening post created concern and confusion. We do not have any intention of tightening our rules (though we may clarify some of them a bit further so that they are better understood) and we are looking at our application of them and wanted your input so we could see things through your eyes. Often the rules are vague and do not specifically address each and every situation. We have the task of making decisions about some things that do not have an exact rule or guideline. We want to be balanced in doing so and we thank you for sharing and helping us through your comments.


----------



## chellemarie (Jan 17, 2003)

I don't have time to read this entire thread so if I'm repeating or bringing up a moot point, please forgive.

I promote the same WAHMs all the time. Why? Because I'm cloth diapering for the first time and haven't bought from several different people. So, those I have purchased from and have been pleased with are the ones I mention over and over. Should I not contribute if I'm just going to say thisone.com and thatone.com again? If I'm not a personal friend of a WAHM, how is this harmful? If I've been burned by a popular WAHM and have found one that I really think could be the next big thing, should I not post praise and links to the new one? (For me, that's much more constructive than discussing my disappointment in everyone else's #1 love.)

This board directly discusses products. I don't think it's unreasonable to see advertising in this forum. I believe this is a slippery slope. If I'm in a group of people talking about a product and someone pipes up, "I make those", I don't think I'd be offended. I certainly wouldn't scream "SPAMMER!" and pop 'em in the nose.

The "check out this auction" and "storeABC stocks today!" threads are the ones I'm most likely to open in my limited amount of time here. I love the auction posts. The threads challenging mamas to find new and lesser known WAHMs are my favorites.

All in all, I really don't see spam in the diapering forum. (Okay, maybe that one time, but I pm'ed the new member and gently let her know that didn't fly here. She's an active and positive spam-free member here now. ) I realize I don't read as much as many others do, but I'd leave it as is. If you cut out links to this and links to that, I may never find anything new or exciting. That would be a disappointment.

ETA: Wow, I can't believe the numbers on the poll. I must be immune to spam because I just don't see it.







:


----------



## sweetladyaz (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lifetapestry_
*I don't believe another rule is needed and if implemented, would have many more negative consequences than perhaps a few SPAM posts.

Karla*

Karla, I you took the words right out of my mouth. Everything in yuor post was exactly what I would have said. I myself am not a WAHM yet, am working on it. But I have alot of respect for the ladies who are. I think that if we cannot talk here about the products others make, and how we feel about them, then there isn't much left to talk about, when it comes to CD. JMO

But also, I do agree that there is a point where people need to just realize that they are breaking rules. It's hard to discern what is SPAM and what is not. I personally







MDC, and don't really feel this is an overly spammed board by any means. I've been to some where you have to weed through to find a real post, because there is so much SPAM, but I think that is not the case here.

MDC has been a place I have learned to come to to find out anything I need regarding almost any aspect of my life. The people here are wonderful, it's a terrific resource.

Just my 2 cents....lol maybe more like a quarter but..


----------



## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I like things the way they are...

I'm absolutely positive of only one instance of covert spam, although I've suspected others, it happened to be on behalf of a new WAHM that had no reviews yet on her auctions, and when I purchased something from her, and paid via paypal she had (0) after her name, which I think means she hadn't had any paypal transactions either? Anyway, she sure did have about five people (new members, I might add) over here raving repeatedly about her products, when it appeared I was one of her first ever customers! Then it turned out the product wasn't so great after all, but those same five or so people were still repeatedly posting glowing reviews (yeah, like the one I bought was the only one to fall apart so soon?







: ). Even if the product had been the best thing since sliced bread, I wouldn't do any more business with this person just on the principle of the matter.
Then, when I had the nerve to post what I honestly thought of the product (with no mention of the shady spam posts on her behalf), she sent me a nasty email about it!









Anyway, I think Heather is right:

Quote:

If it was just once, I wouldn't notice it, but when it is repetitive it becomes obvious to regular members.
And that's when we should just take it into our own hands to not support such businesses! Simple as that, just don't visit their websites or order products from these people. Or if we are truly offended, pm a moderator, and let them deal with it.


----------



## Melaniee (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SpiralWoman_
*full disclosure: if a poster is a WAHM, then that should be in their signature, that way everyone knows. whether there is slant or bias is up to the reader to decipher, but disclosure is just standard business ethics, yes?*
You have to pay to put your store info. in your signature.

Quote:

In other words, I think we should keep things just as they are.
I agree!

There's always going to be a grey area, b/c there are always going to be untrustworthy people.

Quote:

would love to be able to reply to a post asking for spam about a product that I do make or sell.
It is my understanding that you are allowed to PM a response in that case, right?

Quote:

IMO, from the MDC point of view, all WAHMs should pay a little something bcz the biz they can generate here is pretty good.
Just b/c I'm a member of this community & trying to be a wahm, doesn't mean I have the funds to contribute. KWIM?


----------



## LazureFairie (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by BabyOsMommy_
*I have often seen posts where it is obvious to me that someone is posting for someone else and it's spam. It doesn't actually bother me though, because I am free to check out the site or not, free to buy or not.*
This is where I stand on this 100%--personally the info I gather about different diapers and diapering products has really helped with my purchasing choices. And of course I have the final choice on that one--
Personally I'd like to see spam allowed here. I checked off the last poll option.







:

_Edited to add:_

Now that I have time to elaborate on this I wanted to offer a somewhat different perspective on this whole "spam" issue. I used to run a cloth diaper business out of my home (I did this for about five years) I sold factory-made diaper covers, two factory made diapers and one WAHM-made diaper as well as a number of clothing items for infants and toddlers which were WAHM-made. This was a way I could make some money *while I stayed home* with my children (*not so I could stay home,* because it never got to the point where I was that profitable or even close to it!)and at the same time support other WAHMs and the whole concept of cloth diapering which I believe is best from the environmental standpoint as well as teaching our children values about reusing rather than instilling the throw-away mentality which sadly predominates in our culture.

By the time I purchased the products and had them shipped to me (I did drop shipping wherever possible) purchased the packages supplies to send them out to the customer (using recycled materials wherever possible), paid for my advertising to get many of my customers in the first place, paid for the printing of my little catalog (I actually bartered to off-set the cost of printing), paid the postage to send out the catalog, paid fees two or three times a year to feature these products at birthing & parenting fairs and conferences-- after all this and probably costs I am not mentioning my profit margin was mightly slim. In fact I often wondered if I really made any money at all. This was before I knew how to turn on a computer so I didn't have a website, but I can certainly relate to the costs involved with web-hosting, costs involved with posting auctions for individual items etc.
Anyway ultimately it was a cost issue that pushed me (and three other WAHMs who I helped get started) out of business. Our primary supplier raised the minimum order of the factory-made products to a point we could not continue even if we pooled our orders.









I have spent several years since then pondering various avenues to support my vision of women working at home as a viable alternative. I tried on three occasions to start my business up again unsuccessfully.

I know there are many WAHMs who cannot afford to have an ad here at MDC and are struggling just to get started or keep their businesses going. I know of several who ended up getting jobs outside the home to support thier home based businesses!!!







So that is partly why I feel the spam is harmless -- and why in the world does it have to be seen as offensive????







:
(after all the customer can ultimately decide whether to buy or not--you can even choose not to read something you feel is "spam!") and that there is a much larger issue here. I feel strongly that most WAHMs begin working at home in the first place out of a strong desire to stay home with their children and be the primary influence with their children as far as teaching values. This is important in our culture that this desire is still alive and well and I would like to see more support for this. I have read numerous articles in Mothering magazine that support "mother's work" and one article even put a dollar value on the work women do at home, raising their familes which still goes unpaid. Because I feel so strongly that this work should be supported I started two internet message board communities in the past year that allow WAHMs to advertise their businesses for free--at one board I now have nearly 10 WAHM banner ads up and they do not pay me anything. I cover the cost of keeping these boards up and running out of my own pocket and plan to continue to do. Because I cannot afford to advertise these communities at this time, WAHMs have found out about this by word of mouth.

While I am not suggesting that MDC offer something like this on the assumption that this board costs far more to keep going than mine do, I will go as far as to say again, the spam in the diapering boards is harmless imho. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I only wish I could help more mothers to be SAHMs.


----------



## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I would like to see this thread removed as a sticky on top of the diapering forum. The last message was more than a month ago, the conversation and topic is "stale", I see no meaningful purpose for its continued presence, and it takes up more room than any other sticky or announcement, cluttering up the first page of the diapering forum.

Just a suggestion.
Karla


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Karla!









_Ask and it shall be given . . ._ :LOL


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Can there be a sticky with some of the conclusions from this thread and policies? Just because we old timers know what's in here doesn't mean it isn't useful to new members. I know there are rules and guidelines and such, but I think everyone knows that new members don't read them! It's only the poeple who have been here and either been reminded or have looked them up to post in a thread reminding people to keep the peace or something. Besides, it is very diaper specific and I know a lot of members ONLY post in Diapering. Just my suggestion.









If it doesn't get a lot of views, then I would say take it down, but if it does, it was obviously a good idea.







I am willing to admit if it was a waste too.








Lauren


----------



## HeatherSanders (Jul 20, 2002)

Lovely Lauren









This thread's information will certainly be utilized in some fashion for a 'heads-up.' Let me point Cynthia toward yours and Karla's response for review.

Thanks !


----------



## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lifetapestry_
*I would like to see this thread removed as a sticky on top of the diapering forum. The last message was more than a month ago, the conversation and topic is "stale", I see no meaningful purpose for its continued presence, and it takes up more room than any other sticky or announcement, cluttering up the first page of the diapering forum.

Just a suggestion.
Karla*
Thanks for your friendly suggestion, Karla. It's always nice when people lend a helpful hand.

Lauren, great suggestion. We have been inspired and are working on some "guideline cliff notes" that will hopefully be easy for everyone to follow.


----------



## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Thanks


----------

