# S/O What do you call "girl parts"?



## womenswisdom (Jan 5, 2008)

My dd turned 2 in Dec. and we have been referring to all of her under-the-diaper area as her "bottom" or "butt" but I'm thinking we're going to need more specific terminology soon. With my son, we use penis but with girls, vagina is not really technically correct for the outer genitalia and for some reason vulva and labia aren't really comfortable (though neither was penis when I started!). What do you call the external "girl parts"?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Vulva, because it is.

Although, I do call her clitoris her "nubby bit"







as in "ah, you're playing with your nubby bit, that's called a clitoris, you can play with that in private."


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

vagina, labia, clitoris, and "yoni" which I got from MDC. For some reason we never used vulva.

As a point, there is no single name encompassing penis, testicles and scrotum so I don't think there needs to be one for a girl. But for us, yoni covered it.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

vulva, vagina, clitoris (as of yesterday when she asked about her "little penis not growed out yet"), anus. I had forgotten about yoni, THANKyou for reminding me!


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Vulva. We don't have any girls yet though.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Vagina.


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## Xerxella (Feb 6, 2008)

Pee-pee

For both boys and girls. For boys the pee-pee is on the outside, for girls the pee-pee is on the inside. The anus is "the little hole where the poo-poo comes out."

So far the private parts have only been used for tolieting and their sexual function hasn't come up.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I told DD1 all the technically correct names of all her parts when she was about 3, and she's asked me to repeat them for her dozens of times. She's five now. Up until then, we talked about her "girl bits" or her "girl parts." If we're dealing with urination, we also say, "pee-pee place" sometimes. Even now at five, she knows all the correct names-- labia, clitoris, vagina, etc.-- but for common everyday situations she still says "girl bits," or just "bits."

DD2 is just turned three, and seems uninterested. She says "bits" too, and when the moment seems ripe I'll start telling her all the correct names.

DS calls his genitals his "pee-pee" although I have told him the correct names a few times. He also sometimes mentions his "boy bits."


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## tabrizia (Oct 24, 2007)

Vulva is what we use. DD just started exploring hers.


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## Ruthie's momma (May 2, 2008)

We use vulva, vagina, clitoris, anus and bottom around here. DD knows that Daddy has a penis.


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## runnerbrit (May 24, 2006)

vulva.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

We use vulva here too. I wasn't exactly comfortable with it in the beginning, probably because I never even heard the term until I was in college!







The kids are all comfortable with the anatomically correct terms, though. DD1 just came up and said "mommy, the chicken pox on my legs and on my vulva aren't itchy anymore!".


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## fireweed (Nov 27, 2007)

Vulva, because that's what the outer genitalia is. I've never understood using 'cutesy' names for genitalia- i think it's kind of backwards and repressed.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

We've always called it "vulva" with DD(6). As she got older we've gotten a little more detailed with different bits. It took me a little bit to get comfortable saying it, I grew up with "down there".


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## Thalia (Apr 9, 2003)

Vulva. Because it's correct. But we just say "bum" for her butt and haven't really talked about her anus specifically.

At times we have talked about the fact that pee-pee comes out of your urethra, which is in your vulva. So far she has not been interested in talking about her vagina or clitoris.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

The part you may see if you are changing clothes or diapers is the vulva or labia.. so we've always used those words.

No one sees your vagina except your midwife or your lover.. its hidden from view most of the time.


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## 98741 (May 17, 2006)

vulva, the vagina is inside the body


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2004)

We use the scientific names for everything. Vulva for general area with vagina, urethra, labia, clitoris and anus. DD also knows the terms for male parts.

Our DD has always been very interesting in all things science and biology. Sometimes we do refer to "bum" or "butt" for the part she sits on, but we found that she was trying to use those terms for her vulva and we wanted to be sure she knew the difference. We want her to know what everything is so she can describe things if she has a problem with anything (or anyone trying to touch her).

We have a great book called "It's So Amazing" by Robie Harris. It's for 7 and up, but we got it for DD when she was 5 because she already knew a lot of the basic info. The author also has another book for younger kids called "It's Not the Stork."

We also have books about good touch/bad touch/secret touch. We like "It's My Body" and "A Very Touching Book."

Edited to add: Thalia makes a good point about being specific to the interest of the child. We let DD lead us with what info she wants. For instance, I didn't bring up clitoris with her, but it was mentioned in one of the books (she reads on her own now) and she asked me about it. So I gave her the information in an age appropriate manner.

I just noticed that the OP's child is still very young. I would keep things simple, but use anatomical terms. "It's My Body" might be a good book to start with.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

We call it her ladyhood.









When she's older and is interested in what exactly is down there, I will have no problem telling her the actual names of things. I just don't see the need right now. I call her toes, piggies, but don't think that will lead to any long-term confusion.


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## AnnieNimIty (Nov 14, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fireweed* 
Vulva, because that's what the outer genitalia is. I've never understood using 'cutesy' names for genitalia- i think it's kind of backwards and repressed.

I agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Starflower* 
We use the scientific names for everything. Vulva for general area with vagina, urethra, labia, clitoris and anus. DD also knows the terms for male parts.

Our DD has always been very interesting in all things science and biology. Sometimes we do refer to "bum" or "butt" for the part she sits on, but we found that she was trying to use those terms for her vulva and we wanted to be sure she knew the difference. *We want her to know what everything is so she can describe things if she has a problem with anything (or anyone trying to touch her).*

We have a great book called "It's So Amazing" by Robie Harris. It's for 7 and up, but we got it for DD when she was 5 because she already knew a lot of the basic info. The author also has another book for younger kids called "It's Not the Stork."

We also have books about good touch/bad touch/secret touch. We like "It's My Body" and "A Very Touching Book."

Edited to add: Thalia makes a good point about being specific to the interest of the child. We let DD lead us with what info she wants. For instance, I didn't bring up clitoris with her, but it was mentioned in one of the books (she reads on her own now) and she asked me about it. So I gave her the information in an age appropriate manner.

I just noticed that the OP's child is still very young. I would keep things simple, but use anatomical terms. "It's My Body" might be a good book to start with.

I was going to say something very similar.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evie's Mama* 
We call it her ladyhood.









When she's older and is interested in what exactly is down there, I will have no problem telling her the actual names of things. I just don't see the need right now. I call her toes, piggies, but don't think that will lead to any long-term confusion.

Ultimately the point isn't about confusion, but giving your child the ability to communicate accurately about their body, whether for instances of abuse or health.
They can't tell you what the problem is if they don't have the words.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

I will say that since my daughter has become school-aged she has picked up the term "privates," but it encompasses both boys and girls.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

My daughter has been announcing, "Clean my vuvla!" in public bathrooms since she was about 14 months old. It kind of freaks people out.







She is now (21 months) starting to use the difference between vulva/labia/anus/vagina. It was all the vulva for a while because she just couldn't tell the difference. I'm starting to talk about her clitoris because she has found it (oh boy has she







) and I talk to her about good/bad times for playing with her clitoris and vulva. (When you have diaper free time in your bedroom or in the bath tub/during diaper changes or when you are on the potty--ew)


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

Vulva.

Though, for now, everything is pee-pee to DS


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
My daughter has been announcing, "Clean my vuvla!" in public bathrooms since she was about 14 months old. It kind of freaks people out.

















DS went through a stage where he would yell, "BYE BYE PENIS!" when we put his diaper back on. It was cute, but... yeah. I think I said it ONCE, because he wouldn't take his hands off of it so I could put his clean diaper on, and he picked up on it and it became his new-diaper mantra.


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## mommyinIL1976 (Jan 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fireweed* 
Vulva, because that's what the outer genitalia is. I've never understood using 'cutesy' names for genitalia- i think it's kind of backwards and repressed.

I would hesitate to call any speech backwards. Do you use the terms urine, urinate, feces, defecate, and gluteus maximus when using EC?


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

We use vulva, but DD2 has made up her own name "little butt" (as in, at this age, her vulva looks like a smaller version of her "big butt" LOL).


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

vuvla for the girls, penis for the boys.


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Vulva. And personally, we do say urinate. Is that weird?


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## mommyinIL1976 (Jan 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
Vulva. And personally, we do say urinate. Is that weird?

Nope, just like I don't find the term "pee-pee" weird....My point to the previous poster was simply that we may all use terms that others might find different, but I certainly would not call it "backwards".


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## fireweed (Nov 27, 2007)

sorry, backwards might be a bit harsh- i didn't mean to give offense, but it is something i feel really strongly about.
I just meant backwards in a quasi victorian sort of way. Like a 'lady' wouldn't say a 'dirty' word like vulva or labia. I think it's healthy and totally empowering to be able to call things what they are. Why is it embarrassing to say labia, but not, for instance, nose??
Also like a pp stated, it is good to teach kids the proper names, so that they can describe things accurately if there are any health related problems, or even sexual abuse issues. What if little Sally were to go to her grandmother and tell her that Johnny at daycare touched her hoo-ha. Well, grandmother might think that a hoo-ha is some newfangled toy, and tell Sally that nice girls shared their hoo-has.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

I have boys so this conversation has not really come up, but my sister has girls and once I was there and her little girl said 'Mommy my front bottom is itchy"

Front bottom? LOL


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

vulva. and then, also, the clitoris, vagina, and urethra. because that's what it is all called. i wouldn't give an elbow or a chin or an earlobe a cutesy psuedonym, why would i do it with genitalia? ( i do call toes "little piggies" too-but the kids know that they are actually called "toes"







)

it has nothing at all to do with a child's knowledge of the mechanics of sexual function, as a PP implied. i don't understand that line of thinking. calling a body part by it's name doesn't imbue the part with sexuality. you don't need to give them a sex ed lesson because they know what their body parts are called.

the proper terms, it wasn't something that felt natural to say at first, but it became much easier as time went by.

same deal with my ds, who is 2. it felt odd to say "penis" and "testicles" and "foreskin" but it's much easier now.

we do use "pee" and "poop" and "butt hole" instead of the textbook versions. i just cannot bring myself to say the word "anus". grosses me out....


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

We teach proper names, but we use pretty silly language in general in this house, so since we say things like noggin, piggies, tummy, peepers, etc. for other body parts we have no problem also using silly language at times for under-the-swimsuit body parts.

As I said, the proper names are taught (my not-quite-2-year-old says "vulva" and points to hers when I change her diaper), and used when having a serious conversation about said parts, but just as some people think it's odd to _only_ use cutesy names for genitals, I think it's odd to insist on _only_ using proper names -- if they're just body parts like any other, why not treat them as such and use a combination of silly and proper terms?


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

i dont have a girl, and for 2yo ds i say both penis and peepee and we say butt (and said baby bits when he was itty bitty), but i have one of those people who have problems with words for girly parts.... i cant even remember the last time i actually said the words... and its not my moms fault, she taught me the right ones....

hopefully if i ever have a girl (or when ds is old enough to ask about it, for now its just "mama's peepee"







) i'll have gotten better


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

I _meant_ to say vulva, but ended up using the term "underparts" because I thought it was cute. Which DD has now shortened to "parts", or occasionally, when I change her nappy (and with a gleam in her eye, "NASTY parts!". I swear I'm not trying to repress her...


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## Plarka (Jul 1, 2008)

We say pee pee and bum with 2.5 yr old dd, but I now want to switch to vulva because it's correct. But, do you use it like, after they pee on the toilet you say let's wipe your vulva, or did you wipe your vulva...etc? That sounds so weird but I guess as others have said, I'll get used to it.


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## SeekingJoy (Apr 30, 2007)

Vulva. When DD discovers her clitoris and vagina, we will name those parts, too.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Plarka* 
. But, do you use it like, after they pee on the toilet you say let's wipe your vulva, or did you wipe your vulva...etc? That sounds so weird but I guess as others have said, I'll get used to it.

Yep. We pretty much use it any time you would use any other name for it. Although, dd (6) does frequently call hers her "boobah" because that's the closest she could get to vulva when we first taught her the word. She can say it correctly now, but I don't mind her using her own pet name for her parts.


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## tmwmommy (Jul 21, 2009)

I say vagina but I guess it's technically vulva.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Privates. I don't use vulva because it's one of those words that I just don't like the sound of.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

"Yoni" which I think is beautiful. I have never liked vulva.


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## ps4624 (Apr 16, 2009)

We call it her hooty-hoo, but she only 12 months old. When she gets older, we will call her parts by their official names


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sharlla* 
Privates. I don't use vulva because it's one of those words that I just don't like the sound of.

How about labia?


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

Poe poe







No idea where it got started but this is what I started calling it when DD1 was a baby. She never had a problem learning the correct term.


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## JorgieGirl (May 13, 2006)

We also say yoni. It's more 'correct' than just vagina. But when she's old enough, I will be giving her the whole TCOYF approved anatomy lesson. lol.


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## blizzard_babe (Feb 14, 2007)

My only concern about "Yoni" is that it's not a very common word outside of certain circles. If the worry is a child being able to communicate pain, or inappropriate touching to anyone other than parents, then Yoni seems to me to be in the same category as made-up, cutesy names. If a kid were to say, "My yoni hurts" to a teacher, for example, that teacher would probably be just as confused as if a child were to say, "my tootsie hurts" (yeah, I know a mom who teaches her daughter to call her private parts her "tootsie").

Having learned the history/meaning of the word... yeah, it's most accurate. But I just worry that it's not well enough known to be of assistance to a child trying to communication pain/discomfort with a non-parental adult.

Or is it more common than I thought?


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

we use vagina here. Daddy has a penis.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blizzard_babe* 
My only concern about "Yoni" is that it's not a very common word outside of certain circles. If the worry is a child being able to communicate pain, or inappropriate touching to anyone other than parents, then Yoni seems to me to be in the same category as made-up, cutesy names. If a kid were to say, "My yoni hurts" to a teacher, for example, that teacher would probably be just as confused as if a child were to say, "my tootsie hurts" (yeah, I know a mom who teaches her daughter to call her private parts her "tootsie").

Having learned the history/meaning of the word... yeah, it's most accurate. But I just worry that it's not well enough known to be of assistance to a child trying to communication pain/discomfort with a non-parental adult.

Or is it more common than I thought?

I feel the same way about it. Plus, I just don't particularly care for the word.


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## JorgieGirl (May 13, 2006)

Well, we picked yoni cause that's what everyone else we know uses. So I'm not worried about my DD's not being able to communicate. I can understand how using a different more mainstream word would be better in some peoples situations though.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Vulva


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## penquinmom (Oct 20, 2005)

We use Yoni too, and no they have never had any trouble communicating exactly what they were talking about to other people.


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## Red Pajama (Jun 11, 2007)

Labia.

And when she started saying it, it sounded like "ladybug".


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Dada says pee pee. Momma says penis. But sometimes momma sees pee pee too. We're deep in p'learning so both are useful. I used vulva the other day when talking to the the older toddler. The baby doesn't notice yet. We'll use more correct terms later as well and certainly never hide them but "bits" have their moments too. As in, stand up, let's wash your bits.

Actually, I want him to know the correct names but also be a bit familiar with other names.

I don't like yoni at all. Not sure why it is popular but always sounds likd of nasty to me, I don't know why.


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## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm not sure how applicable my answer is because I only have a boy. But when he asks what Mommy has (because it is not a penis) I call it my "bottom". I have always believed that the proper names should be used for our anatomy, but for whatever reason I couldn't tell my 2.5 year old son that I had a vulva. Mostly because he doesn't ever see my vulva. All he sees is my non-penis front.


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## KaliShanti (Mar 23, 2008)

vagina


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## VeganC (Dec 2, 2006)

Vulva and penis. My daughter knows that she has a "vuh-vuh" and her brother has a "peeney".


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yoni to me means the power bundle between your legs if you are a woman. I don't use that word. I don't like it.

My worry is also that if your dd told a teacher that so and so touched her yoni... she would have to describe further what someone touched. Or point. For everyone's' protection, kids should know the names of all their parts.. the real names... not the cutesy ones.

Once again... the vagina is not correct terminology for casual clothes changing and potty learning. No ones sees your vagina except your midwife or your husband. It's the tucked inside part, the sheath, the birth canal, the tunnel of love.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Yoni to me means the power bundle between your legs if you are a woman. I don't use that word. I don't like it.
.

yeah I don't like it either.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
How about labia?

Sounds better. I have a friend that calls it a twitter LOL when she was little that is what they called it. I think it's kind of cute.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

DD is still very young (16 mo) but she knows the difference b/w "butt" and "girl bits". Until she's older I don't feel the need to get all anatomically correct on her. Daddy still has "boy bits" and mommy has "girl bits" and that's enough for right now, IMO.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Yoni to me means the power bundle between your legs if you are a woman. I don't use that word. I don't like it.

My worry is also that if your dd told a teacher that so and so touched her yoni... she would have to describe further what someone touched. Or point. For everyone's' protection, kids should know the names of all their parts.. the real names... not the cutesy ones.

Once again... the vagina is not correct terminology for casual clothes changing and potty learning. No ones sees your vagina except your midwife or your husband. It's the tucked inside part, the sheath, the birth canal, the tunnel of love.









My personal issue with Yoni is that it is cultural appropriation to steal it and as a white American I have way too many things I do unconsciously that are culturally appropriative to want to do it on purpose. I'm trying to _lessen_ the effects of my privilege, not magnify them.

And as an abuse victim it is very important to me that my kids be able to talk about the difference between something hurting on their perineum or their inner labia. Specific speech gives power.


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## inkedmamajama (Jan 3, 2003)

we say vulva and butthole.

kinda funny-when the 2 year old saw her dads penis she called it the 'wrong vulva' lol


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## Aufilia (Jul 31, 2007)

We use 'yoni' as well. I don't particularly worry about her failing to communicate with other adults, she'd be happy to point out the part in question if anybody asked. I think it's a pretty word to say.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 







My personal issue with Yoni is that it is cultural appropriation to steal it and as a white American I have way too many things I do unconsciously that are culturally appropriative to want to do it on purpose. I'm trying to _lessen_ the effects of my privilege, not magnify them.

I am not clear on what being a white American has to do with using a word. Words get shared and passed both ways across many cultures. That's how languages grow and mutate, by intermingling, much like how populations mingle and change.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aufilia* 
We use 'yoni' as well. I don't particularly worry about her failing to communicate with other adults, she'd be happy to point out the part in question if anybody asked. I think it's a pretty word to say.

I am not clear on what being a white American has to do with using a word. Words get shared and passed both ways across many cultures. That's how languages grow and mutate, by intermingling, much like how populations mingle and change.

Uhm, have you done much looking at white privilege and cultural appropriation? If you haven't, might I gently suggest that it might be a good thing to do.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

As far as i am concerned i got the word Yoni from Ina May Gaskin. I have no idea where she got it. Shall i look into every new term or word i encounter on a daily basis to be sure of where it came from?


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
As far as i am concerned i got the word Yoni from Ina May Gaskin. I have no idea where she got it. Shall i look into every new term or word i encounter on a daily basis to be sure of where it came from?

_Every_ word, probably not. A great many of them--well, I do. If you choose to do otherwise that's ok. The word yoni comes from Sanskrit. It is a fairly powerful word in Hinduism. I don't see people using the equivalent word lingham much which to me means that people are not interested in the real meaning/usage of the word they just want another knock off word from vulva because they don't like the sound. You might as well call it your hoo-haw.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Actually i did also know the word lingam from another context. Pretty much all english words are from elsewhere. Every single word has roots somewhere, it is only the span of time for which it is used which makes one an "english" word and another a cultural appropriation. If we all wanted to be completely correctly "english" we would use "cunny" which is also, unfortunately, from the Latin "cunnus" - the external female genitalia and also the root of the c-word which is so offensive to so many people i know i'll suffer for it if i type it in!

When Ina May says Yoni she is trying to make vaginal birth acceptable as a goal to all women, even those who are from modest cultures who do not even see their spouses nude and definitely do not utter words like vagina. There are birth stories of some women where a person shows up to fetch a midwife and is unable to even state that a woman is in labour! She found often times women would cringe from the correct terms and that cringing is clearly not a good place to be birthing in. Her "appropriation" of this word, was to enable women who have been damaged by their own culture to take back something which that damage robbed them of - the right to have a vagina without feeling shame about it or its function. Rather than doing so to offend/steal the culture of other peoples. Isn't intent the more important thing, in that context?


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
_Every_ word, probably not. A great many of them--well, I do. If you choose to do otherwise that's ok. The word yoni comes from Sanskrit. It is a fairly powerful word in Hinduism. I don't see people using the equivalent word lingham much which to me means that people are not interested in the real meaning/usage of the word they just want another knock off word from vulva because they don't like the sound. You might as well call it your hoo-haw.



















I know the origin and meaning of every "new" non-English word I choose to use, especially if it's a word I intend on teaching my children. I find it surprising that Ina May Gaskin never explained the origin of the word "yoni" or its full meaning. IF that's true, it's pretty shoddy scholarship.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

It's possible that she covered it and i didn't memorize that bit of her books.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

People can have _awesome_ intentions and still do things that are culturally appropriative. I am not saying that Ina May is a terrible person. Everyone works with the best they have. I presume you are not working with marginalized populations trying to get them to discuss their genitals?

I don't have a problem with the word cunny or the word cunt. (There is an AWESOME book named Cunt. I don't agree with 100% of her politics but it's still a really important feminist read in my opinion.)

Alright, I'm going to put it this way. Given that the folks posting on this message board are by and large educated and have tremendous access to information (this is the internet after all) I believe that people are better off looking for the power of the words they already have at their disposal rather than stealing the power of other languages. I love the word cunt. I have one. It's flippin awesome. I have a vulva. I have a vagina. I have a labia. I have a clitoris. I could continue. Yoni as used by white Americans has no more power/specificity than calling the whole bit your purse or your hoo haw or your flower. White Americans are by and large not fluent in Sanskrit so we are not using the word because the actual meaning is useful to us. We are using it to avoid words that make us uncomfortable because to our ears _yoni does not sound like a word for female genitalia._ I see that as a whole mixed bag of not helpful.

This is an internet board. If you disagree with my opinion you are under no compulsion to pay attention to me.


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## catters (Nov 20, 2007)

We say Yoni, too, sometimes, or privates. But really, only because it's prettier to say than "vulva", IMO. Also, we drive Volvo's, don't want the two to get mixed up!









Sadly, DS has latched onto Doober as his word for his penis. Thanks older cousin... *sigh.

By the way, I try not to get really attached to, or overanalyze things like this to death. I mean, I refer to my own parts by their proper names, but surely I know that these are not the words my parents used for them when I was growing up. Children are saavy, they figure things out. I don't think my son saying "doober" is going to screw him up in any way.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I actually agree that we should be saying vagina/vulva/cunt (i LOVE cunt, you are literally the first person i've encountered online who doesn't freak.right.out. at the mere hint of it!) nas i have said above, and i think the correct terminology is WAY WAY more useful than using any alternative, even if it is the same word (or a similar word) from another language.

But at the same time, i have a big problem with the natural mutation of language (any language) being called "cultural appropriation". It's the historian/linguist in me i guess, i just see a big long slowly changing spectrum of many colours when it comes to the progression of any current language. Without it languages die (there is actually an office Stornoway which invents new scottish gaelic words for new inventions/terms/things - can you believe that! They will be able to line the coffin of that language with those dictionaries they write! Of course most gaelic speakers don't know the "correct" gaelic word for "television" because they just use "television" - the language, now spoken only by bilinguals, is mutating quite naturally, and you can't build a wall against that sort of flood, you know?). SO while i don't think yoni is much use for a 2 year old with an itchy vulva, i don't think it's a terrible term for a non-hindu person to use either, or that it represents anything negative in terms of the normal progress of any language.

And i'm definitely NOT about to ignore someone who has interesting things to say!


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
I actually agree that we should be saying vagina/vulva/cunt (i LOVE cunt, you are literally the first person i've encountered online who doesn't freak.right.out. at the mere hint of it!) nas i have said above, and i think the correct terminology is WAY WAY more useful than using any alternative, even if it is the same word (or a similar word) from another language.

But at the same time, i have a big problem with the natural mutation of language (any language) being called "cultural appropriation". It's the historian/linguist in me i guess, i just see a big long slowly changing spectrum of many colours when it comes to the progression of any current language. Without it languages die (there is actually an office Stornoway which invents new scottish gaelic words for new inventions/terms/things - can you believe that! They will be able to line the coffin of that language with those dictionaries they write! Of course most gaelic speakers don't know the "correct" gaelic word for "television" because they just use "television" - the language, now spoken only by bilinguals, is mutating quite naturally, and you can't build a wall against that sort of flood, you know?). SO while i don't think yoni is much use for a 2 year old with an itchy vulva, i don't think it's a terrible term for a non-hindu person to use either, or that it represents anything negative in terms of the normal progress of any language.

And i'm definitely NOT about to ignore someone who has interesting things to say!









I studied linguistics in both my undergraduate and graduate programs.







I've also spent a lot of time studying marginalized populations (talk about an exercise in privilege--this is about where I cringe). The reason that I view words like 'television' differently than words like 'yoni' is that the natural evolution of Gaelic didn't really have anything that could be used as a reasonable approximation for television and English invented a word first. Trying to maintain the 'purity' of the language just for the sake of purity of the language is kind of silly, I agree. There are many words from other languages that we just don't have equivalent concepts for in English. My first thought is deja vu (pretend I used appropriate accents there). We just don't have a simple way of saying that in English so it makes sense that we stole a word/phrase to do it for us. That's logical and reasonable. We have _all kinds_ of options already for what to call female genitalia. We are not using yoni because we have no other way to express the concept. We are using yoni because it 'sounds prettier' which is... different. I absolutely support the desire to express oneself as clearly and specifically as possible. I don't see how yoni actually facilitates that for non-Sanskrit speakers.

I feel cultural appropriation hot buttons also exist around this word (I'm not the only person who feels this way--I've had some cool conversations about this topic in the past) partially because it is a word that has very specific usage in a religion. I feel that if someone can say, "I have researched this word extensively. I believe that it is the best way to say the things I want to communicate" then I have no beef with that. Saying, "I want to use it because it is prettier" is taking away the power the word has.

As for why being a white American matters? Well... let's look at all the ways we steal from indigenous cultures and appropriate their actions/words/works and use it in ways that are convenient to us without properly respecting where they came from. The quickest example I am coming up with is Native American art. A lot of it is spiritual in nature but the white people who put it up in their house do not know or care about that. They are not respecting the spirit in which it was made. They take it and use it however they want because _they can._ That's problematic.

Once again, I don't think that people who use the word yoni are terrible people. I do believe that most people who use it are not thinking very carefully about the full meaning and that makes me sad. It is a very powerful word.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
I studied linguistics in both my undergraduate and graduate programs.







I've also spent a lot of time studying marginalized populations (talk about an exercise in privilege--this is about where I cringe). The reason that I view words like 'television' differently than words like 'yoni' is that the natural evolution of Gaelic didn't really have anything that could be used as a reasonable approximation for television and English invented a word first. Trying to maintain the 'purity' of the language just for the sake of purity of the language is kind of silly, I agree. There are many words from other languages that we just don't have equivalent concepts for in English. My first thought is deja vu (pretend I used appropriate accents there). We just don't have a simple way of saying that in English so it makes sense that we stole a word/phrase to do it for us. That's logical and reasonable. We have _all kinds_ of options already for what to call female genitalia. We are not using yoni because we have no other way to express the concept. We are using yoni because it 'sounds prettier' which is... different. *I absolutely support the desire to express oneself as clearly and specifically as possible. I don't see how yoni actually facilitates that for non-Sanskrit speakers.*

I feel cultural appropriation hot buttons also exist around this word (I'm not the only person who feels this way--I've had some cool conversations about this topic in the past) partially because it is a word that has very specific usage in a religion. I feel that if someone can say, "I have researched this word extensively. I believe that it is the best way to say the things I want to communicate" then I have no beef with that. Saying, "I want to use it because it is prettier" is taking away the power the word has.

As for why being a white American matters? Well... let's look at all the ways we steal from indigenous cultures and appropriate their actions/words/works and use it in ways that are convenient to us without properly respecting where they came from. The quickest example I am coming up with is Native American art. A lot of it is spiritual in nature but the white people who put it up in their house do not know or care about that. They are not respecting the spirit in which it was made. They take it and use it however they want because _they can._ That's problematic.

Once again, I don't think that people who use the word yoni are terrible people. I do believe that most people who use it are not thinking very carefully about the full meaning and that makes me sad. It is a very powerful word.

But that is not all language is used for or meant for. Language is about so so much more than clear communication. People tell stories, prescribe moods and reveal their own foibles with their words.

The sky was grey.

Dull metal clouds encroached from the west, and had all but obliterated the clear skies of the eastern horizon.

(please excuse my style!







)

And whether we like it or not, a large cultural shift towards wanting a "pretty word" for something is a genuine reason for using a new word, and there is no reason another existing word can not or should not be used for that reason. Not only the words but the connotations we take from them tell the story of a culture and its shifting sands. I have not looked to see if Yoni is in the English dictionary, but i'll bet you if it is it will have both it's primary english meaning as well as its origins.

I don't know, to me labelling something like this "cultural appropriation" is objecting to the normal, natural movement of culture and language and making it into something shameful and terrible. Cultures all over the world throughout history have met and blended round the edges (and sometimes the edges run so deep into the centres that the original cultures vanish but for a few little details). That is how human culture works. Once something is out in the world it is like our children - it is not "ours" any more. I agree that having a dreamcatcher, a little buddha or any number of other symbolic items from other cultures and not knowing the original intent of such an item can be seen as sad, but to view it as only sad, and as a form of theft denies the importance of the item in its new role. My mother had a little buddha in her handbag (i'm in the UK BTW, so the white american group is "other" to me, rather than "us" which might be a gap to bridge) when she had cancer. It was not made by a buddhist or given to her by a buddhist. In fact it wasn't even The Buddha, but the budai. She was given it by someone at her hospice, a fellow patient who told her "they gave me six months, i've had nearly 6 years, i'm on the last leg now, but you take this guy and see how long he can keep you going". These little tokens of luck are passed about all over the western world (she also had a dreamcatcher a nurse gave her when she was suffering terrible nightmares due to her medication - it helped her even though she never read up on the full meaning or significance of it) and i really truly think they have become part of our culture, they are woven into our fabric now, part of the "us" we are.

Of course as a historian-type i think the origins of such things shouldn't be forgotten, but nor do i believe the meanings have to be static or restricted to only their original meaning with no changes allowed.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

... You know what... if we keep going this thread derailment is going to get impressive. Want to move over to Talk Amongst Ourselves or Personal Growth? I'm not sure which is most appropriate.


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
Pretty much all english words are from elsewhere. Every single word has roots somewhere, it is only the span of time for which it is used which makes one an "english" word and another a cultural appropriation.

Seriously. I would wager that you can find (or invent) a negative, oppressive, connotation/association for many, many words. People have always been ugly to each other and the intent in using a word is what makes it wrong or no. Should we all stop speaking English because it is the language of the particular set of oppressors that we happen to be most familiar with in our era?

I feel yoni is used because it can approximate the entire genital area on a woman, and as mentioned before, we don't really have a good one in modern English. DD is 1 now and I haven't decided what the first word we'll teach for the genitals will be.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
... You know what... if we keep going this thread derailment is going to get impressive. Want to move over to Talk Amongst Ourselves or Personal Growth? I'm not sure which is most appropriate.

YES! Post something, i will look out for you on the New Post list


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## jeminijad (Mar 27, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
... You know what... if we keep going this thread derailment is going to get impressive. Want to move over to Talk Amongst Ourselves or Personal Growth? I'm not sure which is most appropriate.

I posted at the same time as you as I was contributing my bit of thread derailment! You are probably right about moving the thread.


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## ChelseaWantsOut (Oct 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeminijad* 
I feel yoni is used because it can approximate the entire genital area on a woman, and as mentioned before, we don't really have a good one in modern English. DD is 1 now and I haven't decided what the first word we'll teach for the genitals will be.

Vulva! Vulva is a good word and I think a lot of the reason women think of it as "not pretty" is plain old internalized misogyny.


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## MadiMamacita (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
I have a labia.

I believe, strictly speaking, you have *labia*.
4, counting the minora and the majora..the singular would be labium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labium


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## fustian (Sep 24, 2009)

Another vote for vulva.

I understand why people are uncomfortable with the word. It's a word I'm less comfortable with than penis, but I think this has to do with cultural attitudes. I make a conscious effort to use vulva with my daughter, and I think that in doing so the word will be less loaded for her.

Saying that the word is "ugly" makes no sense to me. People tend to identify only words that are considered to be vulgar as "ugly". I don't think it's necessarily internalized misogyny, but rather a type of prudishness that we can all carry. Vulva is not generally used in our culture, and therefore it can seem strange to use it rather than other terms. It's ironic that this "ugly" word has much less ugly connotations than terms we are more comfortable using.

But the word itself no more objectively ugly than "table" or "volvo"







I would suggest that if you are avoiding using it because it is "ugly" you give more thought to your true reasons for avoiding the word. Not that it much matters - I doubt that your choice of word in this matter has any great impact. I'm just trying to stop my DH from using "cootch". Now *that* makes my skin crawl.


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## alaskaberry (Dec 29, 2006)

Vulva is actually the term, not vagina. At least, that's what my mom always taught us to say. I also use "yoni".


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

"Bits"










Trin.


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## hibiscus mum (Apr 6, 2009)

We say "vulva." I don't like cutesy made-up names either.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

As an all-encompassing word, we say "parts". As in boy parts and girl parts. Specifically, we say vulva. And, for boys, of course, penis and scrotum.

But, for the general conversation around my house, it's parts.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Actually I think that some words are just ugly. Artichoke, for example, just lookd unappealing to me when written and it sounds harsh to my ears. I have no deep seated issues with artichokes, I just think it's an ugly word. LOL but then I get funny like that.

We've taught the kids the correct names for their parts, but usually they're just referred to in a collective as their "privates".


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