# Preschool age children in "I am Legend"



## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

My parents watched the kids this afternoon during the baby's nap and we went to see "I am Legend". It was the first movie we had been to in a couple of years and we really enjoyed it except....

There was a couple behind us with two little kids (probably 4 & 5) who were crying and asking to leave the scary movie. I thought it was really scary and haven't been able to get the kids out of my mind for hours. Truthfully, dh and I talked and it seems like the movie should have been R rather than PG-13, not that we think a 4 or 5 year old should see a PG-13 movie...

Has anyone seen it, is it me?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

who were crying and asking to leave the scary movie.
If the parents didn't leave, I would have complained to the management.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

We actually did (they told us that if the rating has PG in it it is up to the parents) Another man in the audience actually asked the parents to leave and the mom took the kids to the bathroom but she brought them back a few minutes later


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## leewd (Aug 14, 2005)

That's just awful. I just don't get why some parents do that.

DH and I almost never go see movies because the kids are too young and it's not worth the babysitter money. Instead we get movies from the "red box" for $1 and watch them after the kids have gone to sleep. If we think the movie will be okay for the 3.5 year old, we take it slow and if she gets scared, we turn it off.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

I absolutely agree with you about the rating. It should have been 'R'. The only thing I can figure is that they rated it PG-13 because there's no sexual content. Because, you know, sex is a no-no for teenagers but extreme violence is A-OK.









There was a little boy, about 3 or 4, in the theater when I saw it. It was really disturbing that his parents thought it was okay to bring him. What disturbed me even more is that he wasn't the least bit bothered by it.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm kinda scared to see it. Just the previews looked scary.

Some parents don't really care if it upsets their kids, or ruins the movie for others, they just think they "deserve" a night out, and the rest of us apparently should just suck it up and be more understanding.

I didn't get to go see a grown up movie in a theater until my daughter was ten, and even then it was movies like Free Willy.

I have been in several grown up movies where kids were shlepped along. The movies are boring for the kids, I don't even see how a parent can have fun with their children begging to leave.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Poor kiddos.







I have not seen the movie, but I have seen the previews, and my Ds just went and saw it the other day so I heard quite a bit. I don't think there should be an across the board "No kids!" rule for every single violent/scary/sexuality involved movie, but I am right there with you on being saddened by seeing overwhelmed and frightened children forced to watch a movie they are not ready for. Parents ought to be more mindful than that IMO.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Definatly not a movie I would take my kids to. We saw it Thursday night also the first time me and dh had been to a movie in many years. There were only older people there and half of them left talking about how scared they were.


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## TekknixMom (Nov 5, 2007)

I haven't seen it, but heard enough about it to know that I wouldn't say it's appropriate for a 4 or 5 year old. To me PG 13 usually means more of "ages 10-13, NOT that it's okay for a young child to see it.
I just don't see how she could even be sitting there listening to her kids ask her to leave the 'scary movie' and just keep sitting there!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I don't think there should be an across the board "No kids!" rule for every single violent/scary/sexuality involved movie, but I am right there with you on being saddened by seeing overwhelmed and frightened children forced to watch a movie they are not ready for. Parents ought to be more mindful than that IMO.

I agree.

We actually saw the movie yesterday with my five year old. She wasn't at all scared, and never has been during stuff like that (and she's seen some movies that really freak me out). She giggled at me when something happened that made me jump.

It was a really good movie.







However, the power went out last night for a few minutes and I was totally picturing the infected humans coming after me in the dark!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
However, the power went out last night for a few minutes and I was totally picturing the infected humans coming after me in the dark!
















:


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 














:









that is me all the time when it comes to scary movies. I enjoyed them so much more when I was little . . . probably why I don't have a problem letting my kid watch what she wants. There may come a time when this stuff freaks her out too much!

Really, though, I am Legend didn't scare me as much as a lot of horror movies do. There was so much more to it than just horror stuff.


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

I don't think it's R worthy, but I wouldn't have taken DS to see it by any stretch.


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

We recently saw American Gangster and the same thing happened. The children were 5-7 and all I could think about was them being exposed to that level of brutality and violence at that age......

I realize that every parent makes their own decisions about movies, but some times it just leaves me









I'm still trying to decide about allowing my 12 yo ds to go see it with my dh. He hasn't seen any really scary movies in the theater yet and I'm not sure if it would be too intense.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

And people wonder why kids are so violent?







Not that that's the only reason..but I really do believe that kids who are exposed to violence, be it on TV or in the home, are much more likely to act out violently themselves. Some parents really don't have any common sense. Poor kids.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Poor kids! That will seriously warp their minds, trust me! My brother is 8 years older then me and he would babysit me and always watched those scary movies. Zombies, chainsaw massacre...It was horrible and it left me a very paranoid adult!!!!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I think people would be wise to drop the blanket statements here.

My personal experience as a child and as a parent directly contradicts the two previous posts.


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## Ecstatic (Aug 13, 2007)

Honestly, I think people with kids age 5 or under shouldn't be allowed into movies that are more than G rated. Or they should be allowed in on special days only.

I say this because I have yet to see a single movie that was above G rated where, if a child aged 5 or below was there, did NOT make noise. I personally don't care what people expose their kids to. But, don't take them to movies that you want to personally see and where your child is bored or scared and making noise, thereby disturbing my viewing.

So, I agree - don't take them. But, I'm coming from the very selfish viewpoint. Don't take them because it disturbs my viewing, lol.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I think people would be wise to drop the blanket statements here.

My personal experience as a child and as a parent directly contradicts the two previous posts.

How old is your oldest child? The impact of watching violence, etc., doesn't always become apparent until later. And sometimes the impacts aren't outwardly obvious but still run quite deep. I know that I'm still, at 32 years old, discovering the ways my early exposure to twisted things effected me. Besides that, children go through phases where they seem better able to handle things and then are much more sensitive. That's certainly been the case with my 7-year-old.

In addition, I have to wonder, "what's the point?" Why do children need to see things like a creature dragging a human being around by the neck and shaking him like a vicious dog?


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

I think all kids are diffrent and therefore ready for diffrent things at diffrent ages. But if my four year old child was CRYING and BEGGING to leave, I'd leave. Gee, if thats not an obvious sign that they were NOT ready to see soemthing like that, what is? Poor kids. I mean, at that age, they dont always understand the line between fantasy and reality. They saw it on the movie, its real.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecstatic* 
Honestly, I think people with kids age 5 or under shouldn't be allowed into movies that are more than G rated. Or they should be allowed in on special days only.

I say this because I have yet to see a single movie that was above G rated where, if a child aged 5 or below was there, did NOT make noise. I personally don't care what people expose their kids to. But, don't take them to movies that you want to personally see and where your child is bored or scared and making noise, thereby disturbing my viewing.

So, I agree - don't take them. But, I'm coming from the very selfish viewpoint. Don't take them because it disturbs my viewing, lol.

I absolutely hate people who disturb movies . . . but people of all ages do it. When we were at I am Legend, it was the people in the back talking loudly who annoyed me. My daughter didn't make a sound because she knows better.

I think movie theater management should be stricter about booting people out if they are making noise -- children and adults alike. I don't think the answer is a blanket ban on kids in movies with a greater than G rating.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
How old is your oldest child?

She's five, but I'm 27 and haven't had any ill-effects from watching adult-themed movies as a child. I am not concerned that my children will, either.

Quote:

In addition, I have to wonder, "what's the point?" Why do children need to see things like a creature dragging a human being around by the neck and shaking him like a vicious dog?
What's the point of any form of entertainment? We go because we enjoy the experience of watching a movie and talking about it as a family. Children (and adults) don't NEED to see anything or participate in ANY form of entertainment . . . but as long as they're enjoying it, it's good by me.

I also think that there was so much more to that movie than monsters and violence . . . and all the rest is the stuff we've been talking about.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecstatic* 
Honestly, I think people with kids age 5 or under shouldn't be allowed into movies that are more than G rated. Or they should be allowed in on special days only.

.

I have to disagree







When my youngest ds was a baby he went to lots of movies with me. He either nursed or slept and didn't make a peep. He wasn't at all into the movie, I'll admit but he also wasn't disruptive. He was just the kind of baby who would sit quietly in my lap. If I had had an active, noisy baby I would have stayed home.

I did have to stop taking him to any movies for a while when he was a toddler and all he wanted to do was run around. By that time we only went to kids movies but even at those, I took him out if he was disruptive. Luckily the phase passed quickly.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
She's five, but I'm 27 and haven't had any ill-effects from watching adult-themed movies as a child. I am not concerned that my children will, either.

I am glad it didnt bother you, but your kids arent you. Something that frightens them, might not you. I watched alot of "adult" movies growing up, but that doesnt mean that I want my children exposed do that b/c "it didnt effect me" That is just a rather immature attitude, IMO.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
I am glad it didnt bother you, but your kids arent you. Something that frightens them, might not you. I watched alot of "adult" movies growing up, but that doesnt mean that I want my children exposed do that b/c "it didnt effect me" That is just a rather immature attitude, IMO.

I actually have a lot of reasons for letting my kids watch the things that they choose to watch, only one of my reasons being that I was allowed the same freedom as a child. I don't believe in censorship, for one thing. I trust my children to tell me if something is bothering them so that we can work it out, for another. I trust myself to know my own kids and what will work for them, even if it goes against the grain. I trust my instincts where my children are concerned. I believe that there's nothing we can't talk about or explain in terms they can understand. Etc, etc.

I am very comfortable with my decisions and decision-making process.

And







to the poster who mentioned bringing her little ones to the movies a lot. We always did the same, and it's been great for all of us. It makes me







: when I hear parents of young babies talking about how they "never go the movies anymore." There's no reason at all not to take a nursing infant.


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

I actually have a lot of reasons for letting my kids watch the things that they choose to watch, only one of my reasons being that I was allowed the same freedom as a child. I don't believe in censorship, for one thing. I trust my children to tell me if something is bothering them so that we can work it out, for another. I trust myself to know my own kids and what will work for them, even if it goes against the grain. I trust my instincts where my children are concerned. I believe that there's nothing we can't talk about or explain in terms they can understand. Etc, etc.

I am very comfortable with my decisions and decision-making process.

And to the poster who mentioned bringing her little ones to the movies a lot. We always did the same, and it's been great for all of us. It makes me when I hear parents of young babies talking about how they "never go the movies anymore." There's no reason at all not to take a nursing infant.
I agree with you entirely. My children (almost 7, almost 3, and 11 months) are allowed to watch whatever movies DH and I are watching. We don't generally take them to R rated movies (because that's our child free time







) but we do take them to the movies. They rarely have nightmares and have never had one after seing a horror movie. They're not any more violent than other children their ages. They're not desensited to real life cruelty and my oldest actually cries if I go to kill a spider. I'm sure all of you who are opposed to children watching horror movies will think I'm lying or delusional and that's fine--you can believe whatever you want.

They've been going since birth and they don't cause any problems. The one time the middle child threw a fit (during a kids movie) I took her out until she calmed down. No biggie. If you don't expose your children to the movie theatre, you only have yourself to blame if they make a scene when you do take them.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

I think if a child isn't bothered by the level of violence seen in many R-rated movies, that's a sign of desensitization. And the data actually appears to support that. Personally, I don't see that as a healthy thing... but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Oh, and the censorship issue doesn't really hold water for me. If a child had the experience to thoroughly understand the impact that a movie like that might have on him/her, that would be one thing. Young children simply don't have the life experience to enable that level of awareness or decision-making. That's why they have parents - to guide them and support them as they grow into a person who can make those decisions. I feel like it's disrespectful of children to treat them as little adults who always know what's good for them.


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## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

I totally agree that different kids are ready for different things at different ages, but if my kid was crying and asking to leave, I would leave. And if I for some reason didn't notice that my kids were upset and someone else asked me to leave, I would leave.

I actually left a movie because of this (not my kids, someone elses) and told the manager why I was leaving. I went to see 1408 (scary stephan king-john cusak movie), it's a horror movie, and someone brought in two kids, one about 5 and one about 3 and sat behind us. I got really shaky and knew if I stayed, I'd be thinking about them and crying the whole movie (I was pregnant too, so those hormones may have played a role in the crying part). But we left and told the management why. I was so glad we left, but we saw a crappy movie instead, and we don't get out much, so I was annoyed about that, plus, i thought about those kids anyway, even though they were in a different theater.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't think kids under a certain age shouldn't be allowed into an R or PG-13 movie because they might disrupt other people, but because THEY ARE CHILDREN! Society has a DUTY (although its been sadly forgotten and abandoned by most people it seems) to protect children from unnecessary trauma and violence. If I managed a movie theater and saw parents walking into a movie like I Am Legend with a 4 year old I would INSIST that they leave immediately. Some people just have really questionable judgment, at least in my opinion, and that is all the more reason why the theater should be allowed to establish a rule like this-TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN.


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Several posts have been removed from this thread. Let's work together to keep this thread as a productive conversation. If you don't see your post and wonder why, pm me and I will let you know. Thank you


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecstatic* 
Honestly, I think people with kids age 5 or under shouldn't be allowed into movies that are more than G rated. Or they should be allowed in on special days only.

I say this because I have yet to see a single movie that was above G rated where, if a child aged 5 or below was there, did NOT make noise. I personally don't care what people expose their kids to. But, don't take them to movies that you want to personally see and where your child is bored or scared and making noise, thereby disturbing my viewing.

So, I agree - don't take them. But, I'm coming from the very selfish viewpoint. Don't take them because it disturbs my viewing, lol.

See. That is how I feel too. I work with kids alllll day, and when my dh and I go out (rarely) we want it to be grown up time. The kids don't want to be there, so why make everybody else suffer.

I also think ANYBODY who is going to disturb the movie shouldn't be there. It could be chatty teens, the old man with a cough, the lady with a rattly bag of chocolate covered raisins. It doesn't matter, I am easily distracted and I just want to get my $12 worth.

So, yep, it's purely selfishness for me too.


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## JavaFinch (May 26, 2002)

There was a young child (maybe 5 or 6) in the theater when I saw HOSTEL! It totally distracted me from watching the movie. I'm sorry, but I will freely judge anyone who exposes their child to graphic, horrific murder scenes in movies. Honestly, after seeing that movie I pretty much decided that type of movie wasn't something I even wanted to watch anymore. I cannot even imagine letting my son watch that!


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I agree totally with dragonfly and mama poot ~ no matter what we think, kids are not mini adults and do not have the maturity to handle all we do. There are too many young adults/older children who are so desensitized to violence, it is scary. I say protect your children when they are young ~ err on the side of caution............


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
If I managed a movie theater and saw parents walking into a movie like I Am Legend with a 4 year old I would INSIST that they leave immediately.

I'd be going over your head and gunning for your job at that point. It is not your right to decide what is good for my family.

Dragonfly:

Quote:

I think if a child isn't bothered by the level of violence seen in many R-rated movies, that's a sign of desensitization.
As long as they remain sensitive to real people and issues, I wouldn't be concerned. Being desensitized to the point that they can watch and enjoy a fun horror movie actually seems like a good thing to me, and I wish I were more that way myself. I was when I was little, and I'm glad I enjoyed what I could when I could.

Quote:

Oh, and the censorship issue doesn't really hold water for me. If a child had the experience to thoroughly understand the impact that a movie like that might have on him/her, that would be one thing. Young children simply don't have the life experience to enable that level of awareness or decision-making. That's why they have parents - to guide them and support them as they grow into a person who can make those decisions. I feel like it's disrespectful of children to treat them as little adults who always know what's good for them.
I think it's disrespectful to treat them like they are incapable of decision-making, and feel that my role as a parent is to guide them through life. For our family in this particular situation, this means telling them what they're going to see, and then talking about it afterward if they have questions or concerns.

2sweeties1angel:

Quote:

They rarely have nightmares and have never had one after seing a horror movie. They're not any more violent than other children their ages. They're not desensited to real life cruelty and my oldest actually cries if I go to kill a spider. I'm sure all of you who are opposed to children watching horror movies will think I'm lying or delusional and that's fine--you can believe whatever you want.
Yup, my kids too. I don't think either of mine have ever had a nightmare, ever, and they don't engage in any violent play (save for roughousing with mama and daddy, but we usually initiate that). I guess they'll just be screwed up adults,









Quote:

If you don't expose your children to the movie theatre, you only have yourself to blame if they make a scene when you do take them.
Yup!


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 







that is me all the time when it comes to scary movies. I enjoyed them so much more when I was little . . . probably why I don't have a problem letting my kid watch what she wants. There may come a time when this stuff freaks her out too much!


You may not think they're 'freaking her out', but it may be doing more damage than you think. When I was 8yrs old I begged & begged my mother to let me see a horror movie with my cousins. They were going & I desperately wanted to go with them. To THIS VERY DAY I can't go outside at night without the 'bad guy' from that movie entering my head. I can now rationally push it away most of the time, but there are some times when I come running back into the house. It HAS scarred me for life. Little children are VERY impressionable. I would NEVER EVER do that to my child.









I can't stand to see small children at scary (or even non-kid) movies. I just don't understand it. My kids watch Noggin, my 5yr old has never seen HIgh School Musical (none of us have). I just can't see the point of introducing such adult things so early. I know my kids would be traumatized by a movie like "I am Legend".


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I trust my children to tell me if something is bothering them so that we can work it out, for another. I trust myself to know my own kids and what will work for them, even if it goes against the grain. I trust my instincts where my children are concerned. I believe that there's nothing we can't talk about or explain in terms they can understand. Etc, etc.

You may be able to 'talk about or explain' all you want, but once images are in their heads you CAN NOT take them back out. They may come back at a later time as unwanted........ and no amount of explaining or talking will make them go away.


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I think if a child isn't bothered by the level of violence seen in many R-rated movies, that's a sign of desensitization. And the data actually appears to support that. Personally, I don't see that as a healthy thing... but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Oh, and the censorship issue doesn't really hold water for me. If a child had the experience to thoroughly understand the impact that a movie like that might have on him/her, that would be one thing. Young children simply don't have the life experience to enable that level of awareness or decision-making. That's why they have parents - to guide them and support them as they grow into a person who can make those decisions. I feel like it's disrespectful of children to treat them as little adults who always know what's good for them.

I couldn't agree more!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 
You may not think they're 'freaking her out', but it may be doing more damage than you think. When I was 8yrs old I begged & begged my mother to let me see a horror movie with my cousins. They were going & I desperately wanted to go with them. To THIS VERY DAY I can't go outside at night without the 'bad guy' from that movie entering my head. I can now rationally push it away most of the time, but there are some times when I come running back into the house. It HAS scarred me for life. Little children are VERY impressionable. I would NEVER EVER do that to my child.









I can't stand to see small children at scary (or even non-kid) movies. I just don't understand it. My kids watch Noggin, my 5yr old has never seen HIgh School Musical (none of us have). I just can't see the point of introducing such adult things so early. I know my kids would be traumatized by a movie like "I am Legend".

Like I said already, I know my kids and I trust my instincts with them. I also know that my own experiences contradict yours.

I think it is silly for you (and others) to waste your time and energy worrying about what I and other parents choose for our families, when it comes to something as subjective as a movie, but if that's what you want to do, have fun.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I think it's disrespectful to treat them like they are incapable of decision-making, and feel that my role as a parent is to guide them through life.

Surely you see a middle road there? I also think it's disrespectful to treat children as though they are incapable of decision-making. However, as my child's guide, it's my job to recognize what he is ready to decide for himself and what he is not. The decision to expose one's self to violence and gore is an adult decision - or should be. There are a lot of potential implications there that children are not ready to grasp (and, again, the studies on children and exposure to media violence certainly play that out).

Quote:

Yup, my kids too. I don't think either of mine have ever had a nightmare, ever, and they don't engage in any violent play (save for roughousing with mama and daddy, but we usually initiate that).
If these are your gauges, then you may want to think this through a bit more. Maybe do a bit of reading.

About exposing kids to the movie theater: DS has gone since he was a baby - to age-appropriate movies (although I used to take him to non-violent movies that probably weren't his thing when he was an infant because he was just nursing and sleeping so he didn't care







).


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I think it is silly for you (and others) to waste your time and energy worrying about what I and other parents choose for our families, when it comes to something as subjective as a movie, but if that's what you want to do, have fun.

I don't think it's ever a waste of time to be concerned about what sort of violence other children are being exposed to. For one, because I care about children, in general. Also, my child has to live in the world with the rest of today's children and I'd prefer it turn out to be a healthy place.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Surely you see a middle road there?

When it comes to outright bans on most things, I don't see a middle ground. I am not comfortable with banning my children from something like a movie -- I think that makes it into a much bigger deal than it is. I would be more inclined to require that they let me watch with them, so that I know what they've seen and can talk about it with them . . . but that has more to do with the way certain people/issues are portrayed than with violence and gore (which my five year old easily recognizes as fake and obviously not something we would do IRL).

Quote:

(and, again, the studies on children and exposure to media violence certainly play that out).
I'm not interested in studies, especially if they don't take into account parental involvement and other aspects of the child's home life (and I've never seen one that has).

Quote:

If these are your gauges, then you may want to think this through a bit more. Maybe do a bit of reading.
As I said, there are lots of reasons why I've made the decision I have. The implication that I am simply uneducated is nothing more than an insult.

With that, I am off to shower so that we can (gasp!) go to the movies in a couple hours. Oh noez, the poor little children.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I agree totally with dragonfly and mama poot ~ no matter what we think, kids are not mini adults and do not have the maturity to handle all we do. There are too many young adults/older children who are so desensitized to violence, it is scary. I say protect your children when they are young ~ err on the side of caution............

Yup.
I saw I am Legend today and felt it was totally inappropriate for young children.


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## Quaniliaz (Oct 11, 2002)

I haven't read all of the replys, but I had to respond. I saw the movie last weekend - and it was really scary to me.

About halfway through the movie, I heard a little voice. Then I saw a mom carry a two year old up the stairs - they must have gone to the bathroom! I was completely outraged!!! How ridiculous!!!!

I thought it should have been rated R, too....

Why someone would think any child under the age of 13 should see that movie is beyond me - certainly not a *little* one!!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quaniliaz* 
Why someone would think any child under the age of 13 should see that movie is beyond me - certainly not a *little* one!!!

I doubt I'd take a child that young to such a movie because it sounds too scary for me, and it sounds way too _loud_ for a small child. However, this kind of post boggles me.

Why 13? Why not 12? Why not 14? Why not 13 and 2 months? Age limits on this kind of thing are arbitrary. I'm more qualified to judge what my kids can handle, based on who they are, than some total stranger (be it a person on a forum, or a lawmaker) can possibly be, based simply on age. DS1 isn't bothered by much of anything on tv, in movies, in video games. He watches scenes without batting an eyelash that would make me edgy for weeks, if not months. He saw Return of the King when it came out, and loved it...I went for popcorn when Frodo reached Shelob's lair, and didn't come back until it was over. I've seen that movie at least 20 times now, and I've never watched the scenes with Shelob - I never will. My mom can watch that scene - but she can't stomach anything that involves blades slicing flesh, which doesn't bother me that much. DS1 can watch almost anything. He's only 14, but I think he's got a better grasp that what's on the screen is special effects than I ever have...and he doesn't get into the same mental space I do about it. It's not a lack of empathy or a tendency to violence - he's just much more capable than I am of saying/thinking "it's just a movie - it isn't real".


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think this situation, like so many others, comes down to mindfulness and consideration. Forcing a frightened or overwhelmed child to view or continue viewing a movie is neither mindful or considerate to the child or to the rest of the people watching.

I don't need to be making decisions for other parents and families about movie watching, but I do like to see children treated with fairness and compassion and respect and I sure appreciate being treated the same way when I am trying to watch a movie. It just seems so cold hearted to make a scared kid watch a movie that's freaking them out because the parent doesn't want to leave. Now if the child is handling things well, then it's between parent and kid.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why 13? Why not 12? Why not 14? Why not 13 and 2 months? Age limits on this kind of thing are arbitrary. I'm more qualified to judge what my kids can handle, based on who they are, than some total stranger (be it a person on a forum, or a lawmaker) can possibly be, based simply on age.

 So so true and well said.







Arbitrary things like "not until 13" for every kid don't make sense to me.

Quote:

He's only 14, but I think he's got a better grasp that what's on the screen is special effects than I ever have...and he doesn't get into the same mental space I do about it. It's not a lack of empathy or a tendency to violence - he's just much more capable than I am of saying/thinking "it's just a movie - it isn't real".
We've got much the same stuff happening in our family as well. I am very sensitive to violence and suffering on screen. The kids are too, but it's in a different way, and they even differ from each other in their response. Turns out people are individual. _Who knew?_







What I think is important is that we can talk about it if we need to, and that we've encouraged the kids to watch what they feel good about. Recently Dd was feeling a little edgy about scary stuff so we talked and she's taking a break from horror right now. She'll see how it goes later. All her own decision.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
The kids are too, but it's in a different way, and they even differ from each other in their response.

That reminds me of my nephew. He was visiting once, and we decided to watch Labyrinth. I think my nephew was about 7. He absolutely freaked out, which surprised me a lot, as I'd seen him watch things that were much rougher and more violent than Labyrinth. He ran out the door and went home (two doors away). I went after him to find out what was wrong. It turned out that the reason he freaked out was because he thought the baby was going to be hurt. He had a baby brother - somewhere between 6 months and a year at that time - and was hyper-sensitive to the fact that a baby was involved. He watched it again a few years later (about 9 or 10) and couldn't believe it had ever bothered him.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think this situation, like so many others, comes down to mindfulness and consideration. Forcing a frightened or overwhelmed child to view or continue viewing a movie is neither mindful or considerate to the child or to the rest of the people watching.

I don't need to be making decisions for other parents and families about movie watching, but I do like to see children treated with fairness and compassion and respect and I sure appreciate being treated the same way when I am trying to watch a movie. It just seems so cold hearted to make a scared kid watch a movie that's freaking them out because the parent doesn't want to leave. Now if the child is handling things well, then it's between parent and kid.


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## Quaniliaz (Oct 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
this kind of post boggles me.

Why 13? Why not 12? Why not 14? Why not 13 and 2 months? Age limits on this kind of thing are arbitrary.

You are right - it was arbitrary. It was a quick way to say that that is _around_ the age at which I'd personally consider letting my kids see a movie such as that. I thought about the kids I know, and yes - I thought that 12 seemed a little young for this movie. I really don't think that *I* should get to decide for everyone else and their kids what movies they could see and when. But I still *personally* don't understand letting a younger child see *this movie*. I wouldn't even be outraged if I saw someone bring their 10,11,12,13 yo in to the movie - I'd not understand, and I'd think about the implications of desensitizing people, children in particular to the violent images, but I wouldn't be disturbed. However - I am quite disturbed that a 2 year old and now a 4 and 5 year old were brought to that movie - and yes that is arbitrary.

And, this isn't completely on topic, but it was what I was thinking about after seeing that movie: I thought this movie should have been rated R. PG-13 implies a different sort of movie to me. To me, it implies that the movie is probably ok for a 10, 11, 12, 13-ish (broadening my arbitrary age limits to appease the masses; cost: concisenss)







I don't think this movie was. Although, truth be told, I really don't like scary movies. But it irks me that some movies are rated R because of *sex* and a movie filled with violence can be rated PG-13 or PG. I'm sure many will disagree, but this irks me. The human body and sex are a normal part of life. The violence that is in a lot of movies isn't even reminiscent of normal life.

I wonder how much ratings of movies depend of the amount of time is spent on violence or whatever R-rated things they look for. Because, while I thought I am Ledgend was really scary in parts, it *was* only parts, not the overwhelming majority. I do still think it should have been rated R.


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## GranoLLLy-girl (Mar 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecstatic* 
Honestly, I think people with kids age 5 or under shouldn't be allowed into movies that are more than G rated. Or they should be allowed in on special days only.

I say this because I have yet to see a single movie that was above G rated where, if a child aged 5 or below was there, did NOT make noise. I personally don't care what people expose their kids to. But, don't take them to movies that you want to personally see and where your child is bored or scared and making noise, thereby disturbing my viewing.

So, I agree - don't take them. But, I'm coming from the very selfish viewpoint. Don't take them because it disturbs my viewing, lol.

ITA--and I don't think your comments are selfish at all. I don't think it's right that people assume that others should have to put up with their selfish acts by bringing children who are not ready to sit through an entire movie (if your kid is ready and can sit that long then I don't care what age he/she is--then bring by all means, take them) or cell phones, etc., to a movie. I haven't seen a movie in a theatre since Titanic--instead, I respect the rights of others and stay home. I'm sure I've missed out on some great movies...but darn, I at least respect the rights of others because I know one of my kids is nowhere near ready to sit quietly in a theatre and watch a movie--even a G rated one.


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## LolaK (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
It makes me







: when I hear parents of young babies talking about how they "never go the movies anymore." There's no reason at all not to take a nursing infant.

Um, except that movies are so loud these days that they hurt my ears half the time, definitely not the place for baby ears to be.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LolaK* 
Um, except that movies are so loud these days that they hurt my ears half the time, definitely not the place for baby ears to be.

Our theater is not loud at all, and I'm sure that most people can find an older or less-trafficked theater to go to if they want to bother. I've found that the loudest movies we've seen are kids movies (I guess to compensate for the noise of the children who haven't yet learned not to disturb everyone around them).


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JavaFinch* 
There was a young child (maybe 5 or 6) in the theater when I saw HOSTEL! It totally distracted me from watching the movie. I'm sorry, but I will freely judge anyone who exposes their child to graphic, horrific murder scenes in movies. Honestly, after seeing that movie I pretty much decided that type of movie wasn't something I even wanted to watch anymore. I cannot even imagine letting my son watch that!









: That movie gave me frickin nightmares, and I am a horror movie lover. I would never ever ever take a young child into a movie like that. O.M.G.

I haven't seen previews for I Am Legend but I've read the book. It is a good story but I think even my 8 year old would be too afraid to see it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quaniliaz* 
But I still *personally* don't understand letting a younger child see *this movie*. I wouldn't even be outraged if I saw someone bring their 10,11,12,13 yo in to the movie - I'd not understand, and I'd think about the implications of desensitizing people, children in particular to the violent images, but I wouldn't be disturbed. However - I am quite disturbed that a 2 year old and now a 4 and 5 year old were brought to that movie - and yes that is arbitrary.

I haven't actually seen the movie or the trailers, so I could be way off base, but is it possible that some people made the decision to see it and take their kids to it, based on trailers that made it look less dark and scary than it is? I find movie trailers to be very misleading sometimes - and that seems to be the case more and more all the time. I'm just wondering about it.

In any case, if I'd taken ds1 to a movie like this when he was 12 (he's almost 15), it would have been because he wanted to see it. By 12, he was a much better judge of what would and wouldn't bother him than I was/am. I tend to assume that he's as squeamish as I am...and I wouldn't want to see this movie.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I haven't actually seen the movie or the trailers, so I could be way off base, but is it possible that some people made the decision to see it and take their kids to it, based on trailers that made it look less dark and scary than it is? I find movie trailers to be very misleading sometimes - and that seems to be the case more and more all the time. I'm just wondering about it.

It wasn't the case for us. It was actually less scary than I thought it would be (and I tend to be easily scared/remember horror movies now in a way I didn't as a child). DD has seen much, much worse (by my standards) though, and while we warned her that it might be a bit scary, she didn't seem to find it so at all. She was sad about the dog, but that's appropriate (who wasn't?) and we talked a lot about how I didn't like the ending, but the infected people were only a blip on her radar.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I think that is what some of us are saying - if your small child isn't fazed by all the violence, wouldn't that make them desensitzed? I think it is normal (and somewhat healthy) for a young child to be disturbed by scary and violent movies. If they weren't, I think I would be a little worried............


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I think that is what some of us are saying - if your small child isn't fazed by all the violence, wouldn't that make them desensitzed? I think it is normal (and somewhat healthy) for a young child to be disturbed by scary and violent movies. If they weren't, I think I would be a little worried............

Why? People are all different, even kids. My sister can watch the most violent, scary movies and thoroughly enjoy them. They make me sick, and freak me out. But...my sister also cried when the Terminator in T2 was lowered into the molten metal, because she thought it was so sad. I've never noticed her being "desensitized" (although maybe I'm missing it, because I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean). The poster before me also mentioned that her dd was sad about the dog, which doesn't sound desensitized, either...


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Worried?

As my wise 6 year old says, "Mommy, it's PRETEND!"










I haven't found myself to be a very good judge of what he's scared by. I don't care for scary movies and I'm constantly saying, "This looks like too much. Aren't you scared??" And he's not.

There was a point a few years ago where Scooby Doo was giving him nightmares so after talking it over with us, he decided that he would not watch Scooby Doo after dark. And that was his personal limit and we helped him uphold it for himself by asking if he knew it was getting late or whatever. He no longer chooses that limit and doesn't have bad dreams.

That said, I would be VERY (like beyond) upset at a child crying and asking to leave a scary movie and the parents not being responsive to that. That would bother me a lot.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I think that is what some of us are saying - if your small child isn't fazed by all the violence, wouldn't that make them desensitzed? I think it is normal (and somewhat healthy) for a young child to be disturbed by scary and violent movies. If they weren't, I think I would be a little worried............

I think it's normal and healthy to be able to separate movie violence/gore/sadness from real-life versions of the same, and to be disturbed by things in real life that would not phase a person if it was part of a fictional story. I would be worried if my child had no empathy at all for real people and real problems, but I think it's a good thing that she understands the difference between characters and real people.

And as Storm Bride re-iterated, she WAS sad about the dog -- probably because he seemed the most real to her, the most relate-able.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I think that is what some of us are saying - if your small child isn't fazed by all the violence, wouldn't that make them desensitzed? I think it is normal (and somewhat healthy) for a young child to be disturbed by scary and violent movies. If they weren't, I think I would be a little worried............

Yep. I also think it could be the child cueing off of the parent. If the parent professes that horror movies are "fun" and "entertainment" then the child is probably going to at least pretend that they're fun because that makes them a part of the group. I'm sure that's not always the case, but it would be completely understandable.

I'm sorry. I don't want to be offensive here, but I just can't get over the feeling that it's disrespectful to children to expose them to those sorts of images. They deserve to have an innocent view of the world for as long as possible. And I still do think that anyone who thinks his/her children are not being in some affected by it is fooling him/herself. That's very naive.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
And as Storm Bride re-iterated, she WAS sad about the dog -- probably because he seemed the most real to her, the most relate-able.

Why would the dog seem more real to her than the people? Was she not bothered by the mother and child falling into the river when the helicopter wrecked? Or all of the people who weren't able to escape dying - the mother screaming for someone to please take her child and save her? If she's so adept at separating fiction from reality, why would she be sad about the dog at all?


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Yep. I also think it could be the child cueing off of the parent. If the parent professes that horror movies are "fun" and "entertainment" then the child is probably going to at least pretend that they're fun because that makes them a part of the group. I'm sure that's not always the case, but it would be completely understandable.

In our house, I'm usually saying, "I'm not sure I want to see this. Can't we see something funny instead? I don't want to be scared."







For all the drama in this thread, probably 80% of the movies we watch are vulgar commedies and another 10% are chick flicks, for lack of a better word. I'd say less than 10% of our viewing is horror movies. Not that it matters . . . I know horror flicks are a staple in other families, and that's cool too. Just not my personal fave.

Quote:

I'm sorry. I don't want to be offensive here, but I just can't get over the feeling that it's disrespectful to children to expose them to those sorts of images. They deserve to have an innocent view of the world for as long as possible. And I still do think that anyone who thinks his/her children are not being in some affected by it is fooling him/herself. That's very naive.
I'm not offended. Like I said, I'm very comfortable with my decisions, and while I think you're wrong, I'm not upset that you think the way you do. Now, I'd be angry if you were actually involved in making it illegal for me to take my children to the movies of our choosing . . . but you're not.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
If she's so adept at separating fiction from reality, why would she be sad about the dog at all?

People cry in movies all the time. I don't think that means they don't realize that they're fiction.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Why would the dog seem more real to her than the people? Was she not bothered by the mother and child falling into the river when the helicopter wrecked? Or all of the people who weren't able to escape dying - the mother screaming for someone to please take her child and save her? If she's so adept at separating fiction from reality, why would she be sad about the dog at all?

Not that much time was spent on either of those events, and I'm guessing (since she didn't mention them) that she didn't even "get" that that's what was happening. I think if she'd gotten it, she would have been sad for the characters.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

It seriously infuriates me when parents allow young children to watch scary and unsettling movies. Why are there so many UAV's in the world?!??!!? It really really really really really upsets me.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
It seriously infuriates me when parents allow young children to watch scary and unsettling movies.

Why?

It infuriates me that there are parents _making_ their children watch them, but I'm not bothered that there are parents who _allow_ it.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
In our house, I'm usually saying, "I'm not sure I want to see this. Can't we see something funny instead? I don't want to be scared."







For all the drama in this thread, probably 80% of the movies we watch are vulgar commedies

 Yeah, we like funny stuff mostly especially if we are going to watch together. Things like Harold and Kumar, Superbad, Taladaga Nights, Blades of Glory, etc. We want to see Walk Hard too.







We talk about what we are feeling, what we want to watch, what we want to avoid, and so on. It's not all that complicated, lol.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 

It infuriates me that there are parents _making_ their children watch them, but I'm not bothered that there are parents who _allow_ it.


I fully agree.







Forcing and agreeing on/to are two different things.


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## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
It infuriates me that there are parents _making_ their children watch them, but I'm not bothered that there are parents who _allow_ it.

what a beautifully succinct way to put it.


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## BinahYeteirah (Oct 15, 2002)

I have to agree with Dragonfly. I think if a young child is _giggling_ or completely unaffected by violence that is unsettling to many adults, it is either a sign of desensitization or immaturity. When I say immaturity, I mean that the child has no real concept of the significance of the events portrayed. Even if the child is old enough to explain what has happened, it may be that the child is not emotionally mature enough or have enough life experience to feel disturbed. I think that is why people like Jessy1019 could watch very violent movies as a child, but can no longer watch similar scenes without being affected. As we gain life experience we gain real knowledge of death, loss, hurt, pain, etc. I don't think a child can fully comprehend some of these things without significant life experience. I don't think there is any benefit to exposing a child to violence that they can't really understand. I have no interest in making decisions for other parents, but I simply can't understand why people would purposely expose their children to these things. It isn't about banning anything; there are plenty of movies out there with content that is more age appropriate.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BinahYeteirah* 
Even if the child is old enough to explain what has happened, it may be that the child is not emotionally mature enough or have enough life experience to feel disturbed. I think that is why people like Jessy1019 could watch very violent movies as a child, but can no longer watch similar scenes without being affected. As we gain life experience we gain real knowledge of death, loss, hurt, pain, etc. I don't think a child can fully comprehend some of these things without significant life experience. I don't think there is any benefit to exposing a child to violence that they can't really understand. I have no interest in making decisions for other parents, but I simply can't understand why people would purposely expose their children to these things.

Okay - but is there necessarily any problem with doing so? DS1 and I both like Brandon Lee. I recently bought "Rapid Fire" and we want to watch it over his school break, while dh is at work (dh doesn't like Brandon Lee, and doesn't share my love of over-the-top action movies). While I'll probably try to wait for the little ones to have their nap, dd will most likely end up watching it with us (she doesn't nap very consistently anymore). I don't think there's any benefit to her seeing it...but I don't think it will harm her, either.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Thanks, BinahYeteirah. You said what I've been trying to say fairly unsuccessfully.

What I don't understand, from the parenting perspective, is where the value is in exposing your children to such things. Entertainment? I'm not sure how children finding those images entertaining is a good thing and there are plenty of entertaining movies that don't contain those images. Family togetherness? How about a game of Yatzhee... or, you know, one of those movies where human beings aren't being ripped apart? It makes no sense.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

We love board games, and I personally love Yahtzee. We don't play them much right now, though. DD and ds2 make it impossible to play and we haven't found any that they're interested in playing. I hope to do so...but getting ds1 to play whatever game we find will probably be a hard sell.

For a variety of reasons (weather, surgical recovery, getting in the Christmas spirit, distraction from grief), we've been watching more movies than usual in the last 6-7 weeks. Most of them aren't violent. But, sometimes, we do watch one. If dd and ds2 are napping, that's great. If they're not, that's okay, too.

We all watched Pirates of the Caribbean 3 last night. DS1 saw it in the theater, but left before the credits were over, and he wanted to see the scene at the end. So, dh rented it. DD and ds2 loved it, too. I doubt it really benefited them, but it made ds1's night, and I don't see _any_ evidence that it harmed either of them, either.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I find movies and television for young children troubling on many levels. It isn't about deciding what is right or wrong for children because of AGE, it is about DEVELOPMENT and COGNITIVE ABILITIES. Those things happen at around the same age for all children (barring disability or delays of some sort). Even "gifted" kids develop certain ways of thinking and being around the same age as their peers.

That means that they are not viewing, understanding, or interpreting the events on the screen the same way the adult is. Their brains just don't work that way yet no matter how you explain it to them. In fact, regular screen time can actually permanently change the way their brains interpret certain signals or messages. It is recommended that children not have ANY screen time before the age of 2 and very little after that into childhood.

Much learning is done by watching, mirror neurons in your brain are activated by watching someone else perform a task. When a child watches an episode of violence the same part of their brain is activated as if they were performing it themselves.

Quote:

Nevertheless, a study in the January 2006 issue of Media Psychology found that when children watched violent television programs, mirror neurons, as well as several brain regions involved in aggression were activated, increasing the probability that the children would behave violently.
Here is an interesting article about mirror neurons

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/sc...ewanted=1&_r=1

Quote:

Similarly, millions of fans who watch their favorite sports on television are hooked by mirror neuron activation. In someone who has never played a sport - say tennis - the mirror neurons involved in running, swaying and swinging the arms will be activated, Dr. Iacoboni said.
There are many compelling reasons NOT to expose young children to violence no good reasons IMO.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
What I don't understand, from the parenting perspective, is where the value is in exposing your children to such things. Entertainment? I'm not sure how children finding those images entertaining is a good thing and there are plenty of entertaining movies that don't contain those images. Family togetherness? How about a game of Yatzhee... or, you know, one of those movies where human beings aren't being ripped apart? It makes no sense.

Some people like to be scared.

I, personally, don't like it and I don't really get the appeal. But my husband and my son think it's enjoyable--and it *is* together time for them to curl up on the couch and watch Harry Potter or Spiderman or whatever. Just b/c it's not what you or I would pick doesn't make it any less valuable to someone else.

Just like roller coasters. NOT my cup of tea. But everytime I go to an amusement park, there they all are....folks lined up for days to get on those things.

Go figure. Different strokes.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BinahYeteirah* 
I have to agree with Dragonfly. I think if a young child is _giggling_ or completely unaffected by violence that is unsettling to many adults, it is either a sign of desensitization or immaturity. When I say immaturity, I mean that the child has no real concept of the significance of the events portrayed. Even if the child is old enough to explain what has happened, it may be that the child is not emotionally mature enough or have enough life experience to feel disturbed.

That could be, but I don't think it's problematic for them to see it, even if they don't understand the significance. I'm sure quite a lot just goes over her head, the same way sexual or other more adult humor in the movies we usually watch does (sometimes she'll ask why something is funny, and we'll explain it).

Quote:

I think that is why people like Jessy1019 could watch very violent movies as a child, but can no longer watch similar scenes without being affected.
Ehh, violence doesn't phase me in movies. And I'm a pacifist . . . I just don't have a problem separating reality from fiction. It's the images of monsters that freak me out -- like the girl from The Ring or the boy from The Grudge. I still watch because I don't mind being scared in the moment, I just deal with it later.

Quote:

I simply can't understand why people would purposely expose their children to these things. It isn't about banning anything; there are plenty of movies out there with content that is more age appropriate.
It's family time for us. My partner and I will decide we want to see a particular movie. We're not going to automatically leave our daughter home, we're going to give her the option to join us. She loves going to the movie theater, no matter what we see.

I also think that she does gain something from all the different movies we see -- especially the more grown up ones -- because they give us a chance to talk about things that might not come up in day-to-day life.

And bottom line, it's entertainment. There doesn't HAVE to be a serious benefit beyond that.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I have not seen this film yet - but I want to!
Hopefully I will be going to see the Golden Compass soon though! hehe (we dont get out much you know







hehe)...

Well tbh it doesnt surprise me anymore. So many irresponsible parents. I went to see Saw (you know that scary horrible murder blood and stuff film - that _is_ rated R!) and there were toddlers (yeah - 2 and 3 year olds) in the cinema with their parents....


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

If you don't expose your children to the movie theatre, you only have yourself to blame if they make a scene when you do take them.
I disagree. The kids in the OP were making a scene because they were scared and their parents didn't care enough to take them out of the movie.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I disagree. The kids in the OP were making a scene because they were scared and their parents didn't care enough to take them out of the movie.

I think by this point we were talking about taking the kids to movies in general, not forcing them to sit through something that is scaring them, that they are asking to leave. No one here has advocated that.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That could be, but I don't think it's problematic for them to see it, even if they don't understand the significance. I'm sure quite a lot just goes over her head, the same way sexual or other more adult humor in the movies we usually watch does (sometimes she'll ask why something is funny, and we'll explain it).

I would be interested to see your response to FreeRangeMama's post above.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
It is recommended that children not have ANY screen time before the age of 2 and very little after that into childhood.

Our children were never interested in watching tv or movies until after their 2nd birthdays anyway . . . even though they came to the movies with us then, they were sleeping or nursing, not watching.

My son isn't two yet, but as far as my daughter goes, she does have limited screen time at home and although we'd love to go to the movies weekly like we used to, our finances have changed and so have our schedules, and it's more likely that we go 2-3 times a month if that.

As far as the studies on mirror neurons, I'd maybe be concerned if I saw my children exhibiting signs of violence in their play or other aspects of their lives. I don't. My daughter is not violent in her play, in her socialization, etc. While those neurons may be activated by watching a movie, she's not acting on them.

Bottom line. I think being raised in a home where gentleness is consistently modeled has far, far more impact than watching the occasional violent movie or show.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Developmental Guidelines - Content Based Criteria for Determining Age Appropriateness - www.commonsensemedia.org

Quote:

This grid is designed to quickly show you what child development experts feel is developmentally appropriate for different age groups. Because every child and every family is different, it is only a rough guide, but we do use it to guide our ratings.
I'm so with Dragonfly & Freerangemama here. Never in a million years would DH & I take our children to "adult" films.

You have no idea how fear affects brain development. I was watching some United 9/11 movie and I "knew" it was all pretend, they were all actors, but my body was behaving like what I was watching was REAL. I felt stress, pain, and fear and horrible anxiety. I have never felt like that watching any movie (except maybe Jaws.) This was different.

My 7.5 yr old never was too scared of 'scary' children's movies (Snow White, Wiz of Oz) but my 3.5 yr old is a different story. She is very sensitive. She was screaming at home when we watched Ratatouille and the old lady was trying to kill Remy and the other rats with her shotgun. In her mind what is happening is real.

Even my 7.5 yr old knows things are fake, but the body acts like it's real. Even adults react that way.

I sit with her and put my hand on her chest. If her heart is beating fast (anxiety, fear, what stress hormones are flooding her brain?) I sit with her and hold her and that helps. Or we turn it off and watch something else.

But even for my 7.5 yr old (who I has not seen Spiderman, Transformers, etc - because there is no NEED for it) I am sure has some physiological reaction to what he is watching.

Children need adults to protect them (and guide them) from certain inappropriate things.

I am Legend - I LOVED it. I love post-apocolyptic films and I could not stop thinking about the movie all night (that never happens!) because I used to live in NYC and often wonder - how in the hell would you survive (leave) if something like that were to happen? But it was horrible images to put a young child through. Absolutely horrible.

I remember seeing some scary, violent, torture!!! scenes in a movie theater when I was 8-10? years old. I have never forgotten the horrible images. I didn't cry, laugh or complain... you have have no idea how children respond sometimes unless you probe.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Can you trust movie ratings? Commonsensemedia.org

Quote:

Some Facts You Should Know
- Movie ratings are awarded by the movie industry itself -There are no published standards for what goes into rating a movie.
- The ratings board is anonymous.
- A PG-13 rating today equals an R rating of 10 years ago (according to a Harvard University study)


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 

I sit with her and put my hand on her chest. If her heart is beating fast (anxiety, fear, what stress hormones are flooding her brain?) I sit with her and hold her and that helps. Or we turn it off and watch something else.

DD spent a good part of I am Legend sitting on my lap to cuddle, and I didn't notice anything like that. It wasn't happening to me either, except for the one time when I jumped and she giggled at me. She didn't jump.

Quote:

I remember seeing some scary, violent, torture!!! scenes in a movie theater when I was 8-10? years old. I have never forgotten the horrible images. I didn't cry, laugh or complain... you have have no idea how children respond sometimes unless you probe.
And how do you know we don't?







And again, after seeing lots of those movies as a kid, I don't remember any of the images, nor did I have issues with them at the time. Different people, different experiences.

As far as your other post, I don't use movie ratings to guide me any more than I would use that "commonsense" site. We look at the preview, talk about the main plot of the film . . . and if we still want to go, we go. If my daughter had a problem with something, we'd leave, but that has never happened and I'd be surprised if it did. I'm not interested in having other people make decisions for my kids and my family . . . which is why the judgment here doesn't bother me (and goes both ways anyway) but why I would be livid if one of you were actively trying to prevent us from going to the movies.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

I think parents who say they take their young children to adult movies at the theater for the purpose of "family time" and/or "entertainment" are being disingenuous. We all know the reason. It's because the adults really want to see the movie and cannot arrange for a babysitter.

It's completely selfish on the parents' part, IMO.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Why?

It infuriates me that there are parents _making_ their children watch them, but I'm not bothered that there are parents who _allow_ it.


Okay. To clarify: for a child that is slightly older, yes, I agree with you. For a 2 or 4 year old, I feel that *allowing* horror/terrifying movies is irresponsible of the parents.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Even if we take "pro-kids in adult movies" posters at their word that their children are not bothered by violence, etc, the question remains whether the kids even understand the plot? Does the kid watching "I Am Legend" understand the concept of "post-apocalyptic dystopia"? Maybe they aren't bothered, but I bet they are confused, bored, or else just tuning out any notions of plot or coherency and being numbed by the action on a screen. It just seems so pointless to me.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Different people, different experiences.

Remember, that applies to your children as well. Your children are not you and you are not them.

The developmental guidelines were created by people (childhood development experts) who know far more about the developing brain that you, I or anyone on this thread put together. That's worth a lot IMO. Not to you.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
I think parents who say they take their young children to adult movies at the theater for the purpose of "family time" and/or "entertainment" are being disingenuous. We all know the reason. *It's because the adults really want to see the movie and cannot arrange for a babysitter.*

It's completely selfish on the parents' part, IMO.

Completely correct. Bolding mine.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Even if we take "pro-kids in adult movies" posters at their word that their children are not bothered by violence, etc, the question remains whether the kids even understand the plot? Does the kid watching "I Am Legend" understand the concept of "post-apocalyptic dystopia"? Maybe they aren't bothered, but I bet they are confused, bored, or else just tuning out any notions of plot or coherency and being numbed by the action on a screen. *It just seems so pointless to me.*

Yes, and this is why I want to wait before I introduce "It's a Wonderful Life" to my son.

I think it's far more fun to enjoy a film you understand rather than just watch the images without understanding. That's a rip off for the child IMO.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019*
I think being raised in a home where gentleness is consistently modeled has far, far more impact than watching the occasional violent movie or show.









The studies don't really change much for me and my family. I've heard the reasons for not allowing TV or severely limiting screen time, and it just doesn't motivate me to do so. Our family has found a way that works for us, and our children do not run around behaving violently. They don't think it's funny if they see someone IRL being attacked or injured.

I think what these conversations come down to most of the time is _"I don't like those movies/images so I don't want my kid to see them or like them either. I don't understand why anyone likes them at all."_ I am no fan of horror myself. I won't even stay in the room if it's on (can't handle the audio) and interestingly enough, despite my love for Mr. Smith, I won't be seeing I Am Legend either....







. It's just too much for me. But I don't think that means I get to decide that you, or for this thread, your child, cannot see it. Why on earth would that be up to me?

Mindfulness and respect and talking are the things that work for my family- about movies and most other things too.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Even if we take "pro-kids in adult movies" posters at their word that their children are not bothered by violence, etc, the question remains whether the kids even understand the plot? Does the kid watching "I Am Legend" understand the concept of "post-apocalyptic dystopia"? Maybe they aren't bothered, but I bet they are confused, bored, or else just tuning out any notions of plot or coherency and being numbed by the action on a screen. It just seems so pointless to me.


I imagine some get it and some don't. Adults have the same problem I have come to find. (Watched "The Minority Report" with a friend half a dozen times before she got it LOL
















Part of a mindful approach could be talking about the movie's plot. We do that often around here before, slightly during (quietly- I promise), and definitely after we see a movie. With a kid going to see a movie that could be complex, action-y, and maybe scary or violent I would likely ask if they knew at all what the movie was about, what they'd be seeing more or less, what the point of the story is, etc. We'd research the movie and read some reviews and so on.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
I think parents who say they take their young children to adult movies at the theater for the purpose of "family time" and/or "entertainment" are being disingenuous. We all know the reason. It's because the adults really want to see the movie and cannot arrange for a babysitter.

It's completely selfish on the parents' part, IMO.

Actually, we have a (free) sitter whenever we want one. My toddler often stays with my mom while my partner and I go to the movies with our five year old (in fact, he was with her through I am Legend). Our daughter chooses to come with us most of the time, and we love to have her.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
Much learning is done by watching, mirror neurons in your brain are activated by watching someone else perform a task. When a child watches an episode of violence the same part of their brain is activated as if they were performing it themselves.

Interesting. Does it work that way for adults, too? That might explain why watching action movies when I'm really pissed off at someone tends to rid me of my desire to put them through a wall.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Even if we take "pro-kids in adult movies" posters at their word that their children are not bothered by violence, etc, the question remains whether the kids even understand the plot? Does the kid watching "I Am Legend" understand the concept of "post-apocalyptic dystopia"? Maybe they aren't bothered, but I bet they are confused, bored, or else just tuning out any notions of plot or coherency and being numbed by the action on a screen. It just seems so pointless to me.

We explain what we know of the plot beforehand, and ask what she thought after . . . Obviously, my five year old wouldn't say that the movie was about "post-apocalyptic dystopia" but neither would I. She *would* say that it was about a man who was left living in the city all alone with his dog, and they had to watch out for monsters and try to figure out how to make the monsters better. Maybe more, if she were involved in a conversation with someone talking about the movie.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
My 7.5 yr old never was too scared of 'scary' children's movies (Snow White, Wiz of Oz) but my 3.5 yr old is a different story. She is very sensitive. She was screaming at home when we watched Ratatouille and the old lady was trying to kill Remy and the other rats with her shotgun. In her mind what is happening is real.

Okay - so what age is okay to see Ratatouille or Snow White? Obviously, your 7.5 year old could watch them at a different age than your 3.5 year old.

Quote:

But even for my 7.5 yr old (who I has not seen Spiderman, Transformers, etc - because there is no NEED for it) I am sure has some physiological reaction to what he is watching.
I don't get the thing about "no need for it". Why have you let your children watch _any_ movies, then? They have no need to see Ratatouille or Snow White, either. I do all kinds of things in my life that there's no need for. I don't need to do crossword puzzles or sing Christmas carols or watch movies or bake mincemeat pies and shortbread at Christmas. I do them all, though. Life isn't about just doing what there's a need for.

Quote:

But it was horrible images to put a young child through. Absolutely horrible.
Why? Which young child?

Quote:

I didn't cry, laugh or complain... you have have no idea how children respond sometimes unless you probe.
I used to probe with ds1. He was fine with stuff that made me want to puke. He's just bothered by different things. Honestly - despite what I've read from "experts" about children's ability to tell real from fantasy, I think ds1 at 5 had a better grasp of the fact that what he was watching wasn't real than I have now.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 








The studies don't really change much for me and my family. I've heard the reasons for not allowing TV or severely limiting screen time, and it just doesn't motivate me to do so. Our family has found a way that works for us, and our children do not run around behaving violently. They don't think it's funny if they see someone IRL being attacked or injured.

I think what these conversations come down to most of the time is _"I don't like those movies/images so I don't want my kid to see them or like them either. I don't understand why anyone likes them at all."_ ...

Mindfulness and respect and talking are the things that work for my family- about movies and most other things too.









:




























:

Thank you!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't get the thing about "no need for it". Why have you let your children watch _any_ movies, then? They have no need to see Ratatouille or Snow White, either. I do all kinds of things in my life that there's no need for. I don't need to do crossword puzzles or sing Christmas carols or watch movies or bake mincemeat pies and shortbread at Christmas. I do them all, though. Life isn't about just doing what there's a need for.

Seriously, do we _really_ want to get into justifying everything we do for entertainment purposes?


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I recall seeing Raiders of the Lost Ark as a child. I was 7 or 8, but I was an easily frightened child. Until college I still had ocassional nightmares of my face melting off like one of the villans in the movie. My brother who is two years younger... loved the movie. I'm sure it's different with different personalities. I can't imagine taking dd to pretty much anything (she's 3 1/2). She doesn't like some Max and Ruby episodes (Ruby's Jewelry Box) because Ruby isn't sharing with Max, or is mean to him. We've watched a few animated movies at home with her, and fast forwarded through all the scary parts (Nemo is fairly short at our house, but what she watches of it, she loves).

Also, babies are different than children IMO. I used to take dd as a sleeping infant when they did a Parent's Program at my local theater. They left the lights on low, set up changing tables, and turned down the sound so it was not ear-splitting. I loved it. She slept. The program isn't running any more apparently, but I'm thinking of taking ds to an early in the day showing of Golden Compass tomorrow. I want to see it and I bet he'll sleep.

Now, I'd draw the line for any child at them crying and asking to leave. They want to leave, you leave IMO... whether it's because the movie is too much for them or they love the movie but need a nap or snack or whatever. It's a public space, and I try to be as respectful of other patrons as I'd like them to be of me. (IE- I don't disturb their movie-watching with crying children; I expect them not to disturb my movie-watching with chatting or complaining about a happy child or nursing infant at the film.)


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

It is not about the point of entertainment, it is about the appropriateness of exposing a child to something they are not cognitively ready to handle. Your 5 year old is similar to every other typically developing 5 year old. A 5 year old brain deciphers and handles things differently than a 7 year old brain (or a 3 year old brain or a 13 year old brain, etc). There is no changing that any more than you can change the typical onset of puberty, the typical age of walking, or the typical age of any other type of development. All the talking and explaining will not change the fact that a 5 year old views things differently than an adult.

Respect and mindfulness include being mindful and showing respect for the age and development of children. Understanding child development means understanding all the reasons this isn't appropriate for a young child, not just saying, "it doesn't seem to bother her so it must be okay."

And yes, mirror neurons are active on people of all ages. The article states many examples of how they work and there is much research in this area and how it impacts humans and how they grow and learn.

In fact, there have been studies that show how stress hormones are released in people watching action and violence (probably because of the mirror neurons) and how being in a state of stress for prolonged periods is detrimental to our health. I wouldn't want to expose my kids to stress levels like this for fun. It seems counterproductive at best.

Sorry if this is disjointed, I haven't slept in over 36 hours........


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
It is not about the point of entertainment, it is about the appropriateness of exposing a child to something they are not cognitively ready to handle. Your 5 year old is similar to every other typically developing 5 year old. A 5 year old brain deciphers and handles things differently than a 7 year old brain (or a 3 year old brain or a 13 year old brain, etc). There is no changing that any more than you can change the typical onset of puberty, the typical age of walking, or the typical age of any other type of development. All the talking and explaining will not change the fact that a 5 year old views things differently than an adult.

Okay - so, once again - which child is which? Typical ages are just that - typical. DS1 was speaking at a year old. DD was speaking in sentences and singing whole songs from memory long before she turned 2. DS2 had a vocabulary of about 4 words when he turned 2...and two months later, he suddenly started using a couple of hundred words, in sentences, within about 2 days. Whatever might be "typical", only one of them could possibly have been that, because they were _all different_. Saying that my 5 year old is similar to "every other typically developing 5 year old" seems like a pretty big assumption about his development and about what "typical" really means. I have 3 kids, and they've all responded differently to tv and movies.

Quote:

Respect and mindfulness include being mindful and showing respect for the age and development of children. Understanding child development means understanding all the reasons this isn't appropriate for a young child, not just saying, "it doesn't seem to bother her so it must be okay."
Watching violent movies as a child didn't bother ds1. It hasn't caused him any nightmares, fear, etc. in subsequent years (he's almost 15). He's not a violent kid (in fact, the first comment I ever had from a teacher, which I've heard consistently ever since is that he's a very kind boy). So - what exactly did watching things that were inappropriate for a young child do to him? How was he harmed?

Quote:

In fact, there have been studies that show how stress hormones are released in people watching action and violence (probably because of the mirror neurons) and how being in a state of stress for prolonged periods is detrimental to our health. I wouldn't want to expose my kids to stress levels like this for fun. It seems counterproductive at best.
Again - interesting. I wonder why violent action movies always helped me unwind, if they were causing stress hormones to be released, though. I'm very skeptical of studies in this area, because they frequently (always?) seem to run counter to my own experience...


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Actually, we have a (free) sitter whenever we want one. My toddler often stays with my mom while my partner and I go to the movies with our five year old (in fact, he was with her through I am Legend). Our daughter chooses to come with us most of the time, and we love to have her.

I'm still not a fan of the concept, but Jessy, this makes me feel a lot better about your situation. I apologize for making an assumption; I was wrong.







If your daughter is free to choose whether to go to the movie or not, it's okay by me. (Not that you care, I'm sure, but just wanted to say, basically, you are right and I was wrong.)


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

I can't imagine too many 5-year-olds who would prefer to stay with a sitter when there is an option of going to the movies with mom and dad instead.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I can't imagine too many 5-year-olds who would prefer to stay with a sitter when there is an option of going to the movies with mom and dad instead.









I would imagine most would prefer to go, but it's nice that they have the choice available to pass on a movie that they are feeling isn't right for them for one reason or another. (Too violent, scary, boring, long, loud, etc.) The option and freedom to choose is good stuff though.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Freedom to choose, where appropriate, is a great thing. I guess our impasse here is related to what is developmentally appropriate. I don't think children should be able to choose to engage in things that are developmentally inappropriate.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I guess our impasse here is related to ......... I don't think children should be able to choose to engage in things that are developmentally inappropriate.

Ahh, yes I think that is the impasse.







:


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

I think parents who say they take their young children to adult movies at the theater for the purpose of "family time" and/or "entertainment" are being disingenuous. We all know the reason. It's because the adults really want to see the movie and cannot arrange for a babysitter.
Wrong. We have a free babysitter available at all times, but sometimes the kids just want to come along. Sometimes they choose to stay with my parents.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
I'm still not a fan of the concept, but Jessy, this makes me feel a lot better about your situation. I apologize for making an assumption; I was wrong.







If your daughter is free to choose whether to go to the movie or not, it's okay by me. (Not that you care, I'm sure, but just wanted to say, basically, you are right and I was wrong.)

Thank you for saying that, I appreciate it.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I can't imagine too many 5-year-olds who would prefer to stay with a sitter when there is an option of going to the movies with mom and dad instead.









My kid would pick spending time with my mom over just about anything . . . we're not talking about a sitter who ignores the kids and does the bare minimum here.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Again - interesting. I wonder why violent action movies always helped me unwind, if they were causing stress hormones to be released, though. I'm very skeptical of studies in this area, because they frequently (always?) seem to run counter to my own experience...

I love action movies too. They totally relax me.

I cannot watch normal kids movies. When I was a kid they were showing Disney movies at our local museum one winter (1 each Saturday) and my babysitter took me thinking it would be a great treat. We had to leave early from each of them because the tension was too great. Like 101 Dalmatians. OMG - she was going to kill the puppies!!! I still can't watch them. The only nightmares I've ever had have been from Lady and the Tramp and Prince of Egypt.

Anyway - I think that every child is different. I think that if the child was scared and wanted to leave - the parents were horrible for not honoring that. But - if the kids like them. Then why not?

I can't watch horror movies. They're too real. But my DH LOVES them. He just LOVES being scared. He also loves roller coasters. So far DD seems to love 'thrills' - like being thrown in the air. But the few times we've started to watch a movie with violence in it (since she was 6 months old) she's gotten upset - so we don't unless she's asleep.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
My kid would pick spending time with my mom over just about anything . . . we're not talking about a sitter who ignores the kids and does the bare minimum here.









That's kind of an odd assumption to make. I'd hope that when most of think of sitters, we don't think of someone who ignores the kids and does the bare minimum.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

this is why DH and I get movies from the library and watch them after at least the oldest kid is in bed.

takes the babysitter out of the equation, the newest library in town has fairly new movies in stock all the time, and we don't have to listen to kids who are in a movie that is way too old for them.

I won't even be taking DS who is 3 to children's movies for at least a couple more years. One, he does not CARE about going to the movie theater. Two, the baby would need a sitter, and three--he enjoys movies, but he is NOT at ALL ready to sit and quietly enjoy one yet. We were watching Ice Age the other night and it was 'look mom, baby's eating watermelon!" etc. etc. He loved it, it was all appropriate---but people do NOT pay good money to listen to my kid yak through a movie. I know this, so we stay home.

THAT is why I would've complained to a manager. If I DID pay good money for a movie ticket, I didn't pay it to listen to kids crying to go home! I listen to enough crying/whining at home thanks.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zakers_mama* 
...and three--he enjoys movies, but he is NOT at ALL ready to sit and quietly enjoy one yet. We were watching Ice Age the other night and it was 'look mom, baby's eating watermelon!" etc. etc. He loved it, it was all appropriate---but people do NOT pay good money to listen to my kid yak through a movie. I know this, so we stay home.

I'd take my kid out of a theater if they were making a fuss. I actually have, when my sister and I misjudged how much ds1 and his cousin would feed each other's excitement. That said - dd (4.5) runs around, talks during movies, etc. - but dh took her to Enchanted a couple of weeks ago, and she was fine.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

For future reference, when you want management to take care of someone that is disrupting a movie, demand your money back because the people behind you just wouldn't shut up so you could hear the movie. When they ask who the people are, tell them......it's the family with 2 little kids....the kids are scare and are crying and screaming and making it so that others can't enjoy the movie......

IME the managers are usualy teens and don't care i the little kids are scared.....but it is their job to take care of disruptions.....so if you go at it using that angle you'll probably have better luck....and the scared crying little darlings might be better off for it too.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

:

Dh and I were talking about that as well. You'd need to make it a business issue for them to care.


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll preface my comments and question by stating that I'm pretty firmly in the small children don't need to see adult content camp.

To me, it's about doing a cost-benefit analysis from the child's POV. What is the benefit? - time with parents. What is the (potential) cost? Exposure to concepts well beyond their comprehension, that may even be detrimental to their development; nightmares. I can find myriad other ways to meet the benefit, and see no reason to risk the potential cost.

My other point is that I don't think it's a solid comparison between the films of 20-30 years ago to what we regularly watch now. CGI has changed everything and has blurred the line between fact and fantasy for many and I think the experience of today's 5 year old in the theatre is different than that of the 5 year old of the sixties (I'm not making any reference to the notion that kids watch violence and become violent).

My question to those who bring their kids to adult-rated movies - do you keep it to the sci-fi type movie where it's monsters and easy to dismiss as unreal content, or do you also take them to movies where people are doing harm to others? DH and I watched The Good Shepherd last night and there was a torture scene that I certainly didn't want to watch, and can only imagine what information it would be providing to a 5 year old about humanity.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joensally* 
My question to those who bring their kids to adult-rated movies - do you keep it to the sci-fi type movie where it's monsters and easy to dismiss as unreal content, or do you also take them to movies where people are doing harm to others? DH and I watched The Good Shepherd last night and there was a torture scene that I certainly didn't want to watch, and can only imagine what information it would be providing to a 5 year old about humanity.

We do all genres . . . .like I said above, most of the R and PG13 movies we see are rated that way for language and crude humor or sexual scenes, but we also do horror and action of all types, depending what's out and what looks good. We've seen the Saw trilogy (or are there four now?) and my five year old saw those with us either at home or in the theater, she saw Children of Men in the theater with us . . . trying to think of some others . . . but no, we really don't censor or restrict based on anything except what looks like a good movie (to us) and what doesn't.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

We never really outright banned any specific genre, but I had (have?) no problem telling the kids my thoughts or concerns about a movie (what it looks like it might have in it) and how it would affect me or them. It was all just part of the talking and researching.

This all assumes a verbally communicative child of course. With a pre-verbal wee one you'd go by different signs as to how they were doing/what they were ready for or were not.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
We've seen the Saw trilogy (or are there four now?) and my five year old saw those with us either at home or in the theater, she saw Children of Men in the theater with us . . . trying to think of some others . . . but no, we really don't censor or restrict based on anything except what looks like a good movie (to us) and what doesn't.

W-O-W... she saw SAW. For what purpose? Entertainment???

Man.

Why put her through that?

No point in answering those questions. I don't know what to know the answer. It won't make any sense to me anyway. None of this does.

Parents want to see X, so children "need" to also.

Why not Sound of Music? Singing in the Rain? something * truly * entertaining (and harmless to living beings)? something inspirational?

Hopefully she'll forget it all. I think there was a thread here a few years back about how some parents brought children in to see the last Hannibal movie, how they overheard the 4 yr old crying to leave and at some point, she stopped talking & crying (or was this a NYTimes article?) The author surmised the poor child went into shock over what she saw (among the horrors - a man tide to a wheelchair and set aflame.)

I personally refuse to watch those hack-up, terror movies. (I like scarey movies, I just don't like movies where people are hunted and tortured.) I can't brag I've seen one let alone all 3. I have serious problems with torture movies. (Part of me thinks I was tortured in a previous life or something, it seriously pisses me off to see torture scenes in wax museums provided as "entertainment" .... or maybe it was that horrible torture movie I saw when I was a kid.







) I would hate to be a child continually subjected to that and not having a voice in it.

I've been told by people who study brain gym that when children (and adults) watch TV, they go into fight or flight. Kinda of a deer in headlights thing. It's hard for me to believe that, but I do see my children "freeze" when they are watching a cartoon. What's it like for their brains watching violence? Ever ask yourself that?


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

Personally, I would never, ever take a chid to a horror movie. I wouldn't deliberately expose my child to a violent movie any more than I would sit and watch a porn movie with him.

But it is a parent's right to do so, I guess.

Where I draw the line is when the children who are allowed to watch violent movies are playing-acting or describing what they've seen on the playground.

So now I feel I have to protect my child from the choices other parents have made.

Let's see... in the past couple of weeks, one boy began to describe a very violent video game during circle time. He was promptly cut short by the teacher, but not before he talked about shooting, blood, and heads exploding. Then there was the other little boy who was acting out a movie where someone's hand was cut off using the wooden knife from a velcro vegetable set. My son won't go in the same half of the room as that little boy now.

I think it's my parental right to NOT expose my son to such violence which has been infringed upon. Because he's been exposed now.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I didn't answer your other questions since you said not to, but I am going to respond to the rest of your post.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
Parents want to see X, so children "need" to also.

I've already said that my daughter has a choice about whether or not she wants to watch something. I've already said that we talk about what the movie is beforehand, and prepare her for what she might see in it. None of us *need* to see anything, so if it was objectionable to any of us, we wouldn't watch it.

Quote:

Why not Sound of Music? Singing in the Rain? something * truly * entertaining (and harmless to living beings)? something inspirational?
We haven't watched those two in particular, but as I've already said, we watch plenty of other movies as a family. We just went to Alvin and the Chipmunks the other day -- dd has seen pretty much any kids' movie she asked to see in the theater. I think it's silly to assume that because we watch horror movies together, we don't watch anything else.

Actually, it's just silly to assume anything.

Quote:

Hopefully she'll forget it all. I think there was a thread here a few years back about how some parents brought children in to see the last Hannibal movie, how they overheard the 4 yr old crying to leave and at some point, she stopped talking & crying (or was this a NYTimes article?) The author surmised the poor child went into shock over what she saw (among the horrors - a man tide to a wheelchair and set aflame.)
Are you now implying that I would force my child to sit through something after she asked to leave? After I've said (several times, I believe) that children who ask to leave should immediately be taken out. Niiice.

Quote:

I personally refuse to watch those hack-up, terror movies. (I like scarey movies, I just don't like movies where people are hunted and tortured.) I can't brag I've seen one let alone all 3. I have serious problems with torture movies. (Part of me thinks I was tortured in a previous life or something, it seriously pisses me off to see torture scenes in wax museums provided as "entertainment" .... or maybe it was that horrible torture movie I saw when I was a kid.







) I would hate to be a child continually subjected to that and not having a voice in it.
And again, this is irrelevant to MY child, who does have a voice in what she sees (and certainly, what she continues to watch). Also sounds like your are confirming what UnschoolinMa said above -- that the people making the most fuss over this issue are the ones who personally dislike the type of movies we're discussing and so can't really understand anyone wanting to watch them.

Quote:

I've been told by people who study brain gym that when children (and adults) watch TV, they go into fight or flight. Kinda of a deer in headlights thing. It's hard for me to believe that, but I do see my children "freeze" when they are watching a cartoon. What's it like for their brains watching violence? Ever ask yourself that?
I don't really buy that theory . . . my son has no interest in television and neither did my daughter until she was past two. Even now, if we are home she is usually doing something else while watching.

And yes, I've "asked myself that," and am very comfortable with the decisions I've made for my family.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

I've already said that we talk about what the movie is beforehand, and prepare her for what she might see in it.
So in the case of "Saw," you explained, in language a child can understand, that it's about a kidnap/torture where two men are chained to a toilet and one is supposed to kill the other one in eight hours or his wife and daughter will be killed, and eventually one of them saws off his own foot to escape? So you prepared her for those images and plot?

Oh. Well, okay then. I don't have anything to say to that.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
So in the case of "Saw," you explained, in language a child can understand, that it's about a kidnap/torture where two men are chained to a toilet and one is supposed to kill the other one in eight hours or his wife and daughter will be killed, and eventually one of them saws off his own foot to escape? So you prepared her for those images and plot?

I don't think I knew that much about the plot at that point, but basically . . . a "bad guy" sets up other people, makes them hurt and tries to see what he can get them to do to each other and to themselves. With the reminder (although this seems to go without saying anymore) that it's all pretend from a story that a writer made up in his head . . . and that the actors, of course, were just making believe that they were hurt and couldn't get away.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Honestly, Jessy, I think you're convincing yourself that you're giving your daughter a choice when, really, to the 5-year-old brain it's probably not much of a choice at all. I'm guessing that she wants to hang with mom and dad, so she's going to see hacker movies because that's what you're going to do.

And now I'm bowing out of this discussion because I can't stand to be reminded that people think it's okay to expose their young children to images of people being torn apart for "entertainment."


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
Honestly, Jessy, I think you're convincing yourself that you're giving your daughter a choice when, really, to the 5-year-old brain it's probably not much of a choice at all. I'm guessing that she wants to hang with mom and dad, so she's going to see hacker movies because that's what you're going to do.









If that's what you'd like to think.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think this situation, like so many others, comes down to mindfulness and consideration. Forcing a frightened or overwhelmed child to view or continue viewing a movie is neither mindful or considerate to the child or to the rest of the people watching.

I don't need to be making decisions for other parents and families about movie watching, but I do like to see children treated with fairness and compassion and respect and I sure appreciate being treated the same way when I am trying to watch a movie. It just seems so cold hearted to make a scared kid watch a movie that's freaking them out because the parent doesn't want to leave. Now if the child is handling things well, then it's between parent and kid.









:


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 








The studies don't really change much for me and my family. I've heard the reasons for not allowing TV or severely limiting screen time, and it just doesn't motivate me to do so. Our family has found a way that works for us, and our children do not run around behaving violently. They don't think it's funny if they see someone IRL being attacked or injured.


This is our experience too.

We don't watch horror movies at home or take our kids to them but we have taken them to PG13 stuff FE and watched some at home.

It is not always possible to make a direct connection. I know plenty of aggressive, bullying kids who are severely limited in their media exposure.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
Where I draw the line is when the children who are allowed to watch violent movies are playing-acting or describing what they've seen on the playground.

So now I feel I have to protect my child from the choices other parents have made.

SNIP
. Then there was the other little boy who was acting out a movie where someone's hand was cut off using the wooden knife from a velcro vegetable set. My son won't go in the same half of the room as that little boy now.

I saw a no-tv allowed kid do something very like that once. He picked up a plastic toy spatula and threatened to cut another kids head off. Then he spent a whole hour saying "I'm going to kill you....etc." He was joined by another no-tv allowed kid and they continued to play that way.

Meanwhile the TV-exposed kids were quietly and cooperatively playing with Playdoh (homemade even-







)

I know these kids from playgroup and they pretty much ALWAYS play this way. Meanwhile the TV-exposed kids play much more creatively IMO and often play very gentle games. I don't think I've ever seen them act out that kind of violence.

Personally I think the difference is that the TV-exposed kids are given lots of opportunities for creative play and are also gently raised in a non-controlling way.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
And again, this is irrelevant to MY child, who does have a voice in what she sees (and certainly, what she continues to watch). Also sounds like your are confirming what UnschoolinMa said above -- that the people making the most fuss over this issue are the ones who personally dislike the type of movies we're discussing and so can't really understand anyone wanting to watch them.

First, I understand you (an adult) or any other adult choosing to watch violent hacker movies. I have no problem with other people's choices (be it porn or torture movies.) But please be honest, your daughter did not choose to view Saw. You chose that for her. (Just like I choose movies for my family.) She did not ask you for it. She did not see the poster/commercial, jump up and down and say "I want to see that!" Or did she? Is she that desensitized? (There was a 10 yr old boy who was driving in LA with his mother, saw a huge billboard of Tourista or something and was so scared/freaked out, started to cry. His mom was so angry this stuff was up, she started a movement to take the ads down. They were removed.) Anything is possible (like anyone on MDC would expose their children to Saw 3 different times), but I doubt your daughter asked for it.

Second, it may sound like that to you (I'm confirming what UnschoolinMa said) but no, that is not what I'm saying.

Here is what she said:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
I think what these conversations come down to most of the time is _"I don't like those movies/images so I don't want my kid to see them or like them either. I don't understand why anyone likes them at all."_ I am no fan of horror myself. I won't even stay in the room if it's on (can't handle the audio) and interestingly enough, despite my love for Mr. Smith, I won't be seeing I Am Legend either....







. It's just too much for me. But I don't think that means I get to decide that you, or for this thread, your child, cannot see it. Why on earth would that be up to me?

Most of the people on this thread who are horrified at the thought of young children viewing "I am Legend" disagree with purposely exposing young children to violence due to the fact that they are too young to handle it. Again, I * enjoy * action, violent and horror movies (NOT hacker movies.) (As a child I did not enjoy them.) But that doesn't mean my children (or any children IMO) are "ready" to see any of it.

Again - Why put them through the trauma? There is no point. Adults may want or need the entertainment (which is fine) but children do not "need" that in their brains and psyche.

Neither you or Unschoolma are getting "it" or acknowledging that it is a "problem" (or potential problem) for young children. That's what I'm seeing.

So no, what Unschoolma is saying is completely different from what I'm saying.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
So in the case of "Saw," you explained, in language a child can understand, that it's about a kidnap/torture where two men are chained to a toilet and one is supposed to kill the other one in eight hours or his wife and daughter will be killed, and eventually one of them saws off his own foot to escape? So you prepared her for those images and plot?

Oh. Well, okay then. I don't have anything to say to that.

Exactly why there was no point in Jessy answering my first questions. I'm done too.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama* 
Personally I think the difference is that the TV-exposed kids are given lots of opportunities for creative play and are also gently raised in a non-controlling way.

I've seen the same thing, and I agree. I think a non-tv kid could have a similar outcome *if* the parents were very free in other ways, but I think parents who are controlling of something like TV are probably controlling in other ways, as well.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
But please be honest, your daughter did not choose to view Saw. You chose that for her. (Just like I choose movies for my family.) She did not ask you for it. She did not see the poster/commercial, jump up and down and say "I want to see that!" Or did she?

We rented the first couple, and she did see the boxes when we brought them home and said she wanted to see it with us. When the latest one was out and she saw the previews, she remembered the first ones and asked to see that one, too.

I think the implication that I am being dishonest simply because you don't like what I'm saying is beyond rude.

Quote:

Again - Why put them through the trauma?
If it was traumatic, we wouldn't *be* putting her through it. If she hated what she was seeing, asked for it to stop, or had a reaction to it beyond simply talking about the movie, we'd turn it off. But to assume that it's traumatic . . . . well, you know what they say about assumptions.

Quote:

Neither you or Unschoolma are getting "it" or acknowledging that it is a "problem" (or potential problem) for young children. That's what I'm seeing.
I think it's a _potential_ problem for SOME children . . . children who are very sensitive or who are for whatever reason unable to separate fantasy from reality . . . but I don't think it's a general problem for children nor do I think it's a problem for MY children.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

You had your child watch the Saw Trilogy. Wow. That's just abusive.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Er, I am just a casual passerby in this thread. I haven't posted but I can't stop reading it. Anyway, I thought that it was only fair to point out that some of the anti-censorship people have children in their teen years. Teens are not really children and I can't see an appropriate analogy between teens and 5 year olds. Just so that people understand that. Some of the "yeah, me too's" are parents of teens, not kids.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I think the implication that I am being dishonest simply because you don't like what I'm saying is beyond rude.

Actually, I don't think anyone is accusing you of lying. I, personally, believe that you genuinely believe what you're saying is the truth. I just think you've adopted a very narrow, naive view of the situation and probably are not seeing the actuality of it as a result. That's not uncommon when we a) feel defensive and b) feel wedded to our perspectives.

We all like to believe our children are different, rare, etc. They really aren't - not when it comes to brain development. There are certain universals at play based on biology and physiology. There are also human norms that can be safely assumed except where there is some sort of mental disorder at play. You're basically putting forth a viewpoint that contravenes biology, physiology, and every human norm.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

Wow, I can't imagine taking a small child to see Saw. How old was your small, small child when she saw these movies? No wonder she doesn't flinch at horror movies - sounds like she has seen it all. I really don't get it.............


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I just think you've adopted a very narrow, naive view of the situation and probably are not seeing the actuality of it as a result.

I must be blind to my child screaming in horror at the movies we show her . . . deaf, too. :eyeroll.

Quote:

That's not uncommon when we a) feel defensive and b) feel wedded to our perspectives.
I don't feel defensive . . . I just haven't seen an argument that would be enough to convince me to restricting MY child's viewing and violate my morals and basic tenets of my parenting at the same time.

Quote:

We all like to believe our children are different, rare, etc. They really aren't - not when it comes to brain development. There are certain universals at play based on biology and physiology. There are also human norms that can be safely assumed except where there is some sort of mental disorder at play. You're basically putting forth a viewpoint that contravenes biology, physiology, and every human norm.
I don't see that at all. I see that from my own experience as a child (and experiences others have posted), it is normal for *some* kids to be able to watch more adult-themed movies without any ill effects. Are we different and rare? Only as different and rare as all human beings are.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
Wow, I can't imagine taking a small child to see Saw. How old was your small, small child when she saw these movies? No wonder she doesn't flinch at horror movies - sounds like she has seen it all. I really don't get it.............

When did Saw come out on DVD? She's five now . . . I'm pretty sure we watched the trilogy on DVD within the past year or so.








I've seen way more than she has and I still finch. Different constitutions.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

I get the feeling you aren't really looking for something that would make you reconsider.







I guess I still don't understand why it would violate your morals and tenets to shield your child from something that every bit of legitimate data and much anecdotal information points to as being damaging. Isn't that the function of a parent? Is watching gruesome images on television some sort of basic right of all children whereby their somehow damaged or less enriched if they don't experience it?

I also agree with a previous poster who said that the experience of watching movies today is much different than it was when we were kids. Which would explain why those of us who are older are perhaps less likely to be desensitized to violence and horror despite watching it at an early age.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I don't think it is different constitutions - I think she was just desensitized at a much earlier age than you. Does she watch sexual movies as well as violent ones? Is there anything she can't watch, or does she just get to watch everything you do (if she wants)? Will your younger one be raised the same way?


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField* 
Er, I am just a casual passerby in this thread. I haven't posted but I can't stop reading it. Anyway, I thought that it was only fair to point out that some of the anti-censorship people have children in their teen years. Teens are not really children and I can't see an appropriate analogy between teens and 5 year olds. Just so that people understand that. Some of the "yeah, me too's" are parents of teens, not kids.


uhhh, i'm pretty sure those "parents of teens" were at one time "parents of five yr olds" yknow? I'm pretty sure someone like Unschoolma parents her teen the same way as she'd parent a five yr old, with open communication, respect, and mindfulness. Just guessing though.

Katherine


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie* 
I don't think it is different constitutions - I think she was just desensitized at a much earlier age than you. Does she watch sexual movies as well as violent ones? Is there anything she can't watch, or does she just get to watch everything you do (if she wants)? Will your younger one be raised the same way?

I don't see desensitization when it comes to movies as a negative, but assuming she was desensitized because of early viewing, I should have been as well (again, assuming all people have the same responses) since I was exposed at a similarly early age.

We don't censor or plan to censor our children's media. They will always be welcome to watch whatever we are watching . . . which as I said previously involves more sexual/crude humor than anything else.


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

Here's my question, Jessy. Let's say your five-year-old fully understands the concept of horror films as being sheer entertainment and nothing else. Does it worry you (as a pacifist, and as a mother) that she _can_ be entertained at the sight of someone sawing their own leg off, or causing harm to another person?


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I guess I still don't understand why it would violate your morals and tenets to shield your child from something that every bit of legitimate data and much anecdotal information points to as being damaging.

I don't agree with the studies I've seen -- I think they fail to take a lot of factors into account.

How does it violate my morals and parenting? I am opposed to censorship and value open and honest communication with my children. I don't believe in arbitrarily restricting them from any harmless or reasonably safe experience that they want to have, and I do believe in trusting my own instincts first and foremost when it comes to parenting decisions. Restricting their media exposure violates my instincts, my "rule" not to have arbitrary rules, and my feelings against censorship. I also feel as though it does nothing positive toward fostering open and honest communication between us.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
Here's my question, Jessy. Let's say your five-year-old fully understands the concept of horror films as being sheer entertainment and nothing else. Does it worry you (as a pacifist, and as a mother) that she _can_ be entertained at the sight of someone sawing their own leg off, or causing harm to another person?

No. We might have some talking to do if she was gleeful about it, but not if she's just able to watch it as one part of a whole.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

To bring this back to "I Am Legend"....my son saw this movie a few days ago, when he was out of town visiting his dad. My son turned 11 in late October. Before he left on the trip, i reminded him that the movie may have some scary bits (i had read something about "vampire" like creatures), and he said he knew, and that he'd be fine. When he got home from the trip ,he informed me that "I Am Legend" was one of his top five favorite films of all time (and he has seen ALOT of movies)...that he was moved to tears several times (it takes alot for a movie to make him cry, though i think he did cry during Bridge to Terabithea, both book and movie)....we are going to see the movie together in a few days. He really LOVED it. He read all about the book, the movie, various other adaptations (such as The Omega Man), etc on wikipedia before he even saw the movie. I think he was well prepared.

I think its rather ridilulous to say (as one poster did)that all children are the same as all other children their age, developmentally. There is such a HUGE variation in not only physical development, but also a child's experience. A movie that has certain scenes might be totally fine for one child, but might remind another child of some traumatic event. My son loves action movies (such as Transformers), but movies with creepy music and suprises jumping out from every corner....even if there isnt any real horror.....he just hates that. He hates to be "surprised"...so if i know there is going to be a movie on like that, i warn him...or i make sure to fast forward previews on a dvd that might scare him.

Another poster was concerned that a child would be sad that an animal was killed in a movie, but not people....again, i think that is *totally* normal and understandeable...i just watched "Apt Pupil" a movie based upon a Stephen King novel, about a student who realized his old neighbor is a Nazi war criminal. There is a scene where the nazi grabs a stray cat and tries to force it into an oven (cat gets away), and also a scene where the student kills a bird (they dont show it)...both scenes i fast forwarded through...even though the sequences about gas chambers, jewish prisoners, etc did not faze me as much...does that make me heartless? No i dont think so, i think it has more to do with knowing that those people are actors, and that the animals (while also "actors")know less of what is going on, and so they may truly be scared, or be emotionally harmed.









And about studies showing how harmful tv is.....bah. I'm not buying it (i think its hilarious how people will buy "science" wholeheartedly if it supports their agenda, but not if it doesnt. Whatever.)....when they do a study of all the unschooled kids i know, with involved parents who sit and watch with them, discuss what they see, kids who are are truly free to choose....when they do THAT study, maybe i'll pay closer attention to the results. Until then, i'll choose to pay more attention to my own child, and how things like "screen time" (gag) affect him....so far so good!









Katherine


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
No. We might have some talking to do if she was gleeful about it, but not if she's just able to watch it as one part of a whole.

What if she didn't outwardly react at all, and you weren't sure of her feelings? Have you ever asked if she understands that it's wrong to harm one's self or others?


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
To bring this back to "I Am Legend"....my son saw this movie a few days ago, when he was out of town visiting his dad. My son turned 11 in late October. Before he left on the trip, i reminded him that the movie may have some scary bits (i had read something about "vampire" like creatures), and he said he knew, and that he'd be fine. When he got home from the trip ,he informed me that "I Am Legend" was one of his top five favorite films of all time (and he has seen ALOT of movies)...that he was moved to tears several times (it takes alot for a movie to make him cry, though i think he did cry during Bridge to Terabithea, both book and movie)....we are going to see the movie together in a few days. He really LOVED it. He read all about the book, the movie, various other adaptations (such as The Omega Man), etc on wikipedia before he even saw the movie. I think he was well prepared.

I think it is kind of sad how this movie has been reduced to nothing but standard horror fare for the purposes of this discussion -- there was SO much more to it than that, so much more of a story to get involved with, characters to feel for, etc.

Quote:

And about studies showing how harmful tv is.....bah. I'm not buying it (i think its hilarious how people will buy "science" wholeheartedly if it supports their agenda, but not if it doesnt. Whatever.)
It always makes me







when I see that here.

Quote:

....when they do a study of all the unschooled kids i know, with involved parents who sit and watch with them, discuss what they see, kids who are are truly free to choose....when they do THAT study, maybe i'll pay closer attention to the results. Until then, i'll choose to pay more attention to my own child, and how things like "screen time" (gag) affect him....so far so good!








Exactly!!


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Sometimes i read posts here by parents of very young kids, and i can see that parents dont realize how young their kids are. A five yr old can seem quite grown up if you have younger kids, but now that my son is 11, a five yr old seems practically like a toddler, yknow? And i bet those with 20 yr old grown kids think my 11 yr old is still a babe.

I know when my son was five, i took him to movies i had no business taking him to. When "House of 1000 Corpses" came out (my son mustve been around 7? or 6?) we took him (i didnt realize how graphic it would be), he was really uncomfortable and scared, and i eventually gave him money to go play the arcade because i was enjoying the movie and didnt want to leave....in retrospect it was pretty selfish of me! (alot of my parenting was pretty selfish back then though...)....i think i exposed him to movies i should have waited on...we watched "Schindlers List" on tape, and while i think he is old enough now, i doubt at five or six he shouldve been exposed to that historical period in such a graphic way. Sure, we discussed it. Yes, i didnt "force" him to watch it. But i think little kids often want to be doing what adults are doing. So i think in retrospect i should have "protected" him a little more from worldly things....i dont see that it "damaged" him in any way---he is much more empathetic and slow to resort to violence than many of his peers---but when i have another young child (currently trying to adopt)i think i'll stick to gentler fare for a few years at least.

Katherine


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
I think what these conversations come down to most of the time is "I don't like those movies/images so I don't want my kid to see them or like them either. I don't understand why anyone likes them at all." I am no fan of horror myself. I won't even stay in the room if it's on (can't handle the audio) and interestingly enough, despite my love for Mr. Smith, I won't be seeing I Am Legend either..... It's just too much for me. But I don't think that means I get to decide that you, or for this thread, your child, cannot see it. Why on earth would that be up to me?
As I read UnschoolnMa, she wasn't taking her 4 or 5 year olds to horror movies. UnschoolnMa also said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
I think this situation, like so many others, comes down to mindfulness and consideration. Forcing a frightened or overwhelmed child to view or continue viewing a movie is neither mindful or considerate to the child or to the rest of the people watching.

I don't need to be making decisions for other parents and families about movie watching, but I do like to see children treated with fairness and compassion and respect /snip
I think this warrants critical thought. I think to purport to be on the CL and/or GD continuum without considering the still-present power dynamic is naive (ie you do require the use of a seatbelt/child restraint, yes?). I think being mindful and considerate of the developing, and emerging, child psyche is appropriate. When I look at the consistency AND the shifts each of my children have demonstrated as they've developed, I really don't understand deciding to expose a child at the young age of 4 to highly complex imagery and to assume that his/her ability to deal with it is static. Sure, Grimm's Fairytales were gruesome, but they also served as a cultural warning system to children (ie social control) who might indeed encounter violence in their everyday lives. I don't think the typical N. American child is going to contend with the content of Saw or the like, nor are you putting this forward as a rationale.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 

We all like to believe our children are different, rare, etc. They really aren't - not when it comes to brain development. There are certain universals at play based on biology and physiology. There are also human norms that can be safely assumed except where there is some sort of mental disorder at play. *You're basically putting forth a viewpoint that contravenes biology, physiology, and every human norm*.

Yes, this. Again, I think this warrants a hard look at what might be motivating a child to view such content - parental approval, acceptance, a desire to please a parent, a desire to spend more time with their parent. Sometimes we inadvertantly send messages to others regarding our expectations, desires and approvals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I don't feel defensive . . . I just haven't seen an argument that would be enough to convince me to restricting MY child's viewing and violate my morals and basic tenets of my parenting at the same time.

I don't see that at all. I see that from my own experience as a child (and experiences others have posted), it is normal for *some* kids to be able to watch more adult-themed movies without any ill effects. Are we different and rare? Only as different and rare as all human beings are.

What you watched as a child is likely fundamentally more campy than what your DD is viewing. I commented above regarding "morals and tenets of parenting." I'm not convinced that a 4-5 year old is making the "free choice" you'd like it to be.

(for the record, I'm not making any moves to restrict your right to take your child to whatever movie you see fit. But I'm yet to see a single justification for the value of exposure, beyond "she asks to participate (see above, never mind that my kids ask for candy frequently...) and she seems unaffected." )


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
What if she didn't outwardly react at all, and you weren't sure of her feelings? Have you ever asked if she understands that it's wrong to harm one's self or others?

Is that a serious question?

Yes, she understands that it's wrong to hurt herself or someone else.







She sees peace and gentleness modeled every day at home; she knows that we don't tolerate violence; we don't hit to get our point across or hit to get what we want, and we actively talk about why things like spanking are wrong and why it is always best to use words as the first (and preferably only) method of communication in a conflict. She's heard people talk about self-harm (cutting, etc) and thinks it's absolutely insane that someone would purposely hurt themselves.








:


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
What if she didn't outwardly react at all, and you weren't sure of her feelings? Have you ever asked if she understands that it's wrong to harm one's self or others?

I have found that my son (and most kids, really!)are very very aware that what is on tv, or the computer screen, is NOT REAL...and does not translate into real life. Its only adults that get all up in arms about "violence" as if its real. Its. Not. Real.

A funny story an unschooling mom related at a conference i went to....she said that one of the kids in the HS group had one of those videogames where you feed and play with a "virtual puppy"...well, he wanted to find out what would happen to starve the "puppy"...the moms were freaking out, thought it was so sad, they felt so bad for the "puppy"...the kid finally said "Um, you guys, you know this is just a game right....this isnt an actual puppy, its not suffering, they are just pixels on a screen....you get that right?"

I think sometimes kids are much smarter than we give them credit for.

Katherine


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joensally* 
Again, I think this warrants a hard look at what might be motivating a child to view such content - parental approval, acceptance, a desire to please a parent, a desire to spend more time with their parent. Sometimes we inadvertantly send messages to others regarding our expectations, desires and approvals.

Maybe, if she never told us that she didn't want to come with us, and never told us to turn something off, etc. I would think you had a point. But she has declined our invitations to the movies (several times . . . usually things that she thinks sound boring, but sometimes just because she'd rather hang with grammy) and has asked to have shows turned off/watched when she's not up (Cadet Kelly and Supernatural) . . . so she knows that our response is to turn it off and put on something else that she wants to watch with us (ie: she knows she's not losing our favor or our time). I feel like she is (and has been for years) very competent at communicating with us and not at all inclined to be a people-pleaser/not at all afraid to disappoint us.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
And about studies showing how harmful tv is.....bah. I'm not buying it (i think its hilarious how people will buy "science" wholeheartedly if it supports their agenda, but not if it doesnt. Whatever.)....when they do a study of all the unschooled kids i know, with involved parents who sit and watch with them, discuss what they see, kids who are are truly free to choose....when they do THAT study, maybe i'll pay closer attention to the results. Until then, i'll choose to pay more attention to my own child, and how things like "screen time" (gag) affect him....so far so good!









Couldn't agree more.

I think it's ironic that on a website where we espouse the "parent is the expert" and "poo on the CDC/AAP studies" for SO MANY things, that suddenly MDC mamas are NOT to trust their kids and start believing studies and scientists and child development charts, instead.

The thought of a five year old watching SAW makes me gag. The thought of ANYONE watching SAW makes me gag. I would rather saw MY leg off than watch that movie!









But who am I to say that MY reaction is the only one?

My husband would watch that movie and think it was terrific.

Who's right? Does his liking that movie mean he's desensitized to violence? I don't think so. If he saw that happen in real life he would be the first one in line to make it stop. The scenes in SAW are not real. No one is really being hurt or tortured. Some people like to watch it to see the special effects. Some people like it to be scared or grossed out. I think that VERY few people are actually watching that movie to get off on the idea of people harming other people.

If someone who is tuned into their kids is saying that their child is fine with it, then that's the answer for me.

LIke I said before, there have been things that my kid has watched that I was SURE were too much for him. I was wrong.

I think it's much more probable that Jessy's kid is watching things that are in *her* comfort range and her mama is being responsive to that, than it is that some expert/chart/or anyone here "knows better" for her.


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Is that a serious question?

Yes, she understands that it's wrong to hurt herself or someone else.







She sees peace and gentleness modeled every day at home; she knows that we don't tolerate violence; we don't hit to get our point across or hit to get what we want, and we actively talk about why things like spanking are wrong and why it is always best to use words as the first (and preferably only) method of communication in a conflict. She's heard people talk about self-harm (cutting, etc) and thinks it's absolutely insane that someone would purposely hurt themselves.








:

Yes, it is a serious question. I have no way of knowing you've had that sort of discussion before, unless I ask. Remember that you yourself, in this very thread, have noted how people shouldn't assume things. So no need to pull out all those exasperated-looking emoticons, okay?


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
uhhh, i'm pretty sure those "parents of teens" were at one time "parents of five yr olds" yknow? I'm pretty sure someone like Unschoolma parents her teen the same way as she'd parent a five yr old, with open communication, respect, and mindfulness. Just guessing though.

I think having open communication, respect and mindfulness can include restricting content.

Part of my thing on this issue is my experience, and what I see with my kids. In retrospect, I was raised similarly to how some of you are describing your values. I saw various movies as a child from a young age, and while I intellectually understood they were fake, I was still affected. Did I volunteer to view, or even instigate it - darn tootin'! Adrenalin is cool. My mother had a policy that I could read whatever I liked, so long as I thought critically about it. I read Diary of Anne Frank at 8 and Clan of the Cave Bear at 12. I still have images hard wired into my brain that still creep me out from things I read or saw at young ages that I wish I could excise.

My kids are very creative and have a strong sense of fantasy. At 4.5, DS took a stuffie to the allergist for scratch testing and the doctor asked if he should show DS how it would work by first doing it on his stuffie. DS replied "he's just a dolly, just pretend, he's not real!" - but then proceeded to cuddle the stuffie and chat to it. We have chosen to limit their exposure to certain kinds of content because you don't know you've pushed their limit until you've pushed it, and sometimes not even then (reflecting on how I was as a child).

Also, I'm arguing against content, not media. My kids have plenty of media exposure.


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
I think its rather ridilulous to say (as one poster did)that all children are the same as all other children their age, developmentally. There is such a HUGE variation in not only physical development, but also a child's experience. A movie that has certain scenes might be totally fine for one child, but might remind another child of some traumatic event. My son loves action movies (such as Transformers), but movies with creepy music and suprises jumping out from every corner....even if there isnt any real horror.....he just hates that. He hates to be "surprised"...so if i know there is going to be a movie on like that, i warn him...or i make sure to fast forward previews on a dvd that might scare him.

No, but most kids go through the same stages of development. The timelines will be different, and kids are asynchronous (it's not a lock-step chronology). As you yourself say, 4 and 5 year olds are still pretty close to babies, and I think are sufficiently far from being fully emerged as people that I would be hard pressed to expose a child that young to imagery that only a segment of the adult population can "handle."

My 5 and 8 year olds actually saw Transformers on video a month or so ago, and overall were fine with it (DH had previewed it, I might actually have kept DS from watching it as it fuelled his gun toy please for a bit there). This was certainly the most "mature" movie DS had seen, although DD has watched Masterpiece Theatre's Jane Eyre, which has some scary and unsettling content (sans saws, of course







).


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

I think its rather ridilulous to say (as one poster did)that all children are the same as all other children their age, developmentally. There is such a HUGE variation in not only physical development, but also a child's experience.
I have been way too sick to keep up with this thread, but essentially this was my point

Quote:

We all like to believe our children are different, rare, etc. They really aren't - not when it comes to brain development. There are certain universals at play based on biology and physiology. There are also human norms that can be safely assumed except where there is some sort of mental disorder at play. You're basically putting forth a viewpoint that contravenes biology, physiology, and every human norm.
She just said it much clearer than I as I was running a nice little fever at the time


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I've seen the same thing, and I agree. I think a non-tv kid could have a similar outcome *if* the parents were very free in other ways, but I think parents who are controlling of something like TV are probably controlling in other ways, as well.

This just makes me







We generally practice consensual parenting. But we just don't own a tv so it is a non-issue. We don't go to theaters, my kids have never been to one. They have no desire to watch either. Occasionally they watch something like the Jungle Book on the computer, but mostly they are outside playing or using their imaginations. They have a REAL choice in what they want in life as they are not bombarded with ads and marketing. They have interests based on what really moves them, not just what they saw a commercial for or what the other kids do.

I consider THAT to be real freedom in choices. And consequently they have no desire to see people chopped to pieces for "entertainment".

And FTR dh and I enjoy horror movies, though only if they have an enjoyable plot, we prefer our entertainment to actually entertain us


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
What if she didn't outwardly react at all, and you weren't sure of her feelings? Have you ever asked if she understands that it's wrong to harm one's self or others?

 I think that would be a natural part of discussing media as a gentle, mindful parent.









Now that my son is 16 he has his own ideas about when violence/aggression is appropriate, and no his opinions on the subject do not always line up with mine. That's alright though because I know (have experienced him being) he is generally thoughtful, respectful, and kind rather than bullying, hateful, or homicidal.

My kids didn't care for super violent or scary movies as wee ones, and because I don't like them either it was just fine. But we have always tried to be open about the media issue and to talk and follow their lead. As they've gotten older they like many movies I would not choose to watch or hear graphic details about (Saw, Hostel, etc) They respect that, but I also have given them the tools to think about what they are watching. (Spoilers are great for that for a reading kid, btw...if they don't mind some of the story being revealed.)

One of my Ds's fave movies is "300" which was violent but not scary. Dd likes a lot of horror, but has recently been changing and growing regarding that and she is taking a bit of a break from scary stuff to evaluate what she wants to watch or pass on. My kind of scary is "Sleepy Hollow" with Johnny Depp









The idea that anyone would just toss their kid down in front of Saw without discussions, etc or force them to watch it is just heartbreakingly awful. I know anything is possible, but I just can't imagine anyone here doing that. Perhaps this just comes down to two camps:

Camp A: Children cannot make healthy decisions about scary movies when they are young due to the developing brain. They need parents to censor these movies and make these decisions for them.

Camp B: Children are capable of making informed decisions about media with mindful parents acting as guides and helpers. Though brain development differs from an adult, information can still be received and processed if it's given in understandable ways, with enough time to digest, and etc.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
This just makes me







We generally practice consensual parenting. But we just don't own a tv so it is a non-issue. We don't go to theaters, my kids have never been to one. They have no desire to watch either. Occasionally they watch something like the Jungle Book on the computer, but mostly they are outside playing or using their imaginations. They have a REAL choice in what they want in life as they are not bombarded with ads and marketing. They have interests based on what really moves them, not just what they saw a commercial for or what the other kids do.

I consider THAT to be real freedom in choices. And consequently they have no desire to see people chopped to pieces for "entertainment".

And FTR dh and I enjoy horror movies, though only if they have an enjoyable plot, we prefer our entertainment to actually entertain us









You have so many assumptions there....that outside they are "using their imaginations" but if they were watching tv/movies/videogames/etc they would not be; that a child cannot truly make a choice if s/he sees ads/marketing (i havent found that true with my own child....he's been known to research some cool gadget on the internet to find out if its really as neat or useful as the infomercial claims); that having an interest sparked by something seen on tv is somehow less valid than an interest sparked elsewhere; that such an interest isnt "really" what moves a child, that somehow that child is merely a puppet of marketeers...?; you say that your kids have a "real choice"...but if that choice includes something you dont necessarily "approve" of, do they still get to choose? and that entertainment will look the same for all people.....i hate hate hate sports programming...i simply cannot understand why someone would want to sit and watch a ball game. I dont get it....i would be bored to tears. And yet some people find that entertaining.....to each his or her own i suppose.









Katherine


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
I have found that my son (and most kids, really!)are very very aware that what is on tv, or the computer screen, is NOT REAL...and does not translate into real life. Its only adults that get all up in arms about "violence" as if its real. Its. Not. Real.

The problem isn't that kids think it is real. It is that the same areas in the viewer's brain are activated as would be if they were actually comitting the act involved. Not just in hacker movies, but even in sports. If I am sitting across from someone who is eating the areas in my brain that control picking up the fork, chewing, and swallowing are active. Just by watching. It doesn't matter whether you are 5 months or 50 years, it works the same and has been observed on MRI. MRIs don't take into account how you parent or how much "choice" you have, they just show what is there and what is happening.

So a 5 year old who is watching someone cut off their own foot has a brain who has re-enacted cutting off a foot. No biased studies at work, just the way our brains work. And at the age of 5 that seems a little much to handle.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

I've only seen about half of it so far, but there's no way I'd let a child that age watch it. It scared ME. I actually screamed once or twice.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
You have so many assumptions there....that outside they are "using their imaginations" but if they were watching tv/movies/videogames/etc they would not be; that a child cannot truly make a choice if s/he sees ads/marketing (i havent found that true with my own child....he's been known to research some cool gadget on the internet to find out if its really as neat or useful as the infomercial claims); that having an interest sparked by something seen on tv is somehow less valid than an interest sparked elsewhere; that such an interest isnt "really" what moves a child, that somehow that child is merely a puppet of marketeers...?; you say that your kids have a "real choice"...but if that choice includes something you dont necessarily "approve" of, do they still get to choose? and that entertainment will look the same for all people.....i hate hate hate sports programming...i simply cannot understand why someone would want to sit and watch a ball game. I dont get it....i would be bored to tears. And yet some people find that entertaining.....to each his or her own i suppose.









Katherine

But your child is 11 and that is a whole different thing than being 3 or 5. At the preschool age many kids who are using imagination are doing so in a way that directly relates to the movie they just watched instead of inventing something new. At 11 they have a natural desire to search farther away from the nuclear family, they are beginning the independence phase of growth. I have an almost 7 year old that is just entering the outside of that world and I can see how his interests are changing as is how he reacts to the world around him.

My 4 year old is just in love with *everything* I don't approve of. And it is his choice as to what he wants to play with or learn about. He is really into weapons (he got a catapult and a sword for xmas). It is his choice. But at 4 he is still in that dreamy preschoolers world. I prefer to allow him to stay that way until whatever needs are met by that phase (physically, emotionally, etc) are actually met. I see no point of placing him in a position where he will have to make choices like "can I handle watching a bloody decapitation" or "do I want that toy because it looks like fun or because the commercial made it look really cool".

An older child will be better equipped to make those choices. Especially if they are given lots of choice and are treated with respect. I see a huge part of that as allowing to make choices that they are developmentally ready for. What mortgage company to go with would fall outside that range as would watching excessively brutal movies. I don't think they are even aware there are such things as it hasn't been something they have any experience with.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
The problem isn't that kids think it is real. It is that the same areas in the viewer's brain are activated as would be if they were actually comitting the act involved. Not just in hacker movies, but even in sports. If I am sitting across from someone who is eating the areas in my brain that control picking up the fork, chewing, and swallowing are active. Just by watching. It doesn't matter whether you are 5 months or 50 years, it works the same and has been observed on MRI. MRIs don't take into account how you parent or how much "choice" you have, they just show what is there and what is happening.

So a 5 year old who is watching someone cut off their own foot has a brain who has re-enacted cutting off a foot. No biased studies at work, just the way our brains work. And at the age of 5 that seems a little much to handle.

You can quote all the "science" you want (and i dont really have the inclination to go read the so called research, threads like this increase my heartrate, i dont think i have the stomach for whole papers or books on the subject)....but all i really need to do(all anyone really needs to do)is look at my kid. Thats what i did when the doctor said he needed formula, or when the AAP said cosleeping is dangerous, or when i was accused of risking my child's life by not vaxing. I just looked at my kid...is he healthy? Is he happy? Is this meeting his needs?

You dont think being hooked up to some machine that records brainwaves, in an artificial lab, with strangers poking and prodding you....is a completely different situation than a child, with involved parents, discussing, sharing, being together.....

it just comes down to brain waves right? watching a zombie in a movie is just exactly the same as being eaten by a zombie in real life?









I think as unschoolma wrote....we've reached an impasse. I dont think this is a gulf i can jump over. I just dont get this argument at all, as it has no bearing whatsoever on our real lives, or my real kid.

Are they hooking kids up to MRI machines while their teachers drone on and on in the classroom? If they discovered that that uses the same part of the brain as any other form of torture...what then?









Katherine


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
But your child is 11 and that is a whole different thing than being 3 or 5.

There are people in this thread who have stated that they don't think "I Am Legend" is appropriate for kids in the 10-13 yr old range. I was stating my experience with that. My 11yo was changed (in a good, thought provoking way)by the movie. Its sad to me that some on this thread think my son should not have had that experience.

Yes, of course, at 11 my son is ready developmentally for things he was not ready for at 8 or at 5 or at 3....kids grow and learn every day. But there isnt one point at which you say "ok now you can choose"...its a gradual thing. There is a world of gray, a whole spectrum, between saying to your little child "No, you are not allowed to watch that, forget it, how horrible" and saying "sure, watch whatever, here ya go, have fun, hope ya dont get scared!"....there is ALOT of discussion, support, caution, preparation that can fall between those two extremes.

Katherine


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

My ds1 went to see it yesterday and it's rated 15 here. There is no way you could take a 5 year old to see it. Why is it rated differently where you are?


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
uhhh, i'm pretty sure those "parents of teens" were at one time "parents of five yr olds" yknow? I'm pretty sure someone like Unschoolma parents her teen the same way as she'd parent a five yr old, with open communication, respect, and mindfulness. Just guessing though.

Katherine

I'm a little confused here. It seems like you're saying that Unschoolma's policy on media exposure equates to parenting with open communication, respect, and mindfulness and, so, it would follow that people who don't adopt that policy don't parent with open communication, respect, and mindfulness? Am I getting that right?


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joensally* 
Also, I'm arguing against content, not media. My kids have plenty of media exposure.









Same here.

And whether or not you agree with studies, I have a hard time understanding how you argue with the science of brain development and response. Unless all of the experts are wrong on that, too?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be.







My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly* 
I'm a little confused here. It seems like you're saying that Unschoolma's policy on media exposure equates to parenting with open communication, respect, and mindfulness and, so, it would follow that people who don't adopt that policy don't parent with open communication, respect, and mindfulness? Am I getting that right?

No, thats not what i meant....what i meant was that i assume that even though unschoolma has teens, that when those teens were little ones, she parented them the same way....so it doesnt matter that she has teens now, because had this thread existed when her kids were little, she would still be making the same arguments, because she would be parenting the same way (this is assuming she was....for sake of argument.) It seemed like some posters were saying "Its easy for you to have these arguments, you have teens, of course you will give them more freedom" (paraphrase), but my point is that there are lots and lots of parents, esp unschooling parents, who parent in the same way, who have three or four year olds. Its not just the priveledge of having older kids. It applies to little ones too.

Katherine


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Wow! So I started this thread and between the holidays and out-of-town guests haven't been back online since it had about 8 responses. What a bunch of discussion, I feel a bit like a troll







:

Anyway, a couple of thoughts after reading most of the posts...

I wouldn't have know that the kids were in the theater if they hadn't been crying and begging to leave. We rarely go to the movies and I hardly want to spend my time there worrying about what other people are doing. Once I realized that the kids were there, I did notice some other older kids in the theater probably between 10 & 12ish and didn't think about it too much, I always figure that the "13" is just a guideline. It also prevents children who are under 13 from buying the tickets WITHOUT their parents knowledge. If parents feel their children are up to it then they can make their own decisions.

Somebody mentioned that people who don't take their kids to these films probably just don't like this sort of stuff - that is not true of myself and dh and I am sure many others. The last film we saw in the theater without the kids was Children of Men. DH and I recently watched the Reaping at home, as well as 28 Days & Weeks later. I just choose not to take my little kids to see them.

I do understand how ratings can serve as a form of censorship (I vaguely remember writing an indepth paper on how the threat of an X rating caused major and unfortunate changes to the film Wild Orchid in college







) As for whether not taking children to adult movies is a form of censorship or restriction - that might be true if children were begging to see these films rather than agreeing to go along. My 7 year old begged and begged to see a child-focused PG-13 movie so he and I watched it together. The fact is that little children look to us for guidance regarding what to do - if I say to my kids "Do you want to go to the movies and see I am Legend or Saw they will probably say yes and go along with us. If I instead offer Alvin and the Chipmunks, a trip to a museum or a skate rink they will probably say yes to that as well. We tend to let them make the suggestions or give them a range of options based on what we can afford and think THEY will enjoy and will create happy positive child-focused fun rather than assuming they are little versions of us and will have fun doing what WE want to do. Regardless of what folks say about consensual living, dh and I have more influence over what the family does than the kids (we decided what state/house we live in, what careers and thus spending money we have, whether we have cable, what church we attend, etc. etc. etc.) Adults have power and responsibility...as parents we work hard not to misuse it.

From my perspective, beyond the horror zombie aspect this was a really thought provoking film that raises really interesting questions about the concept of humans as species that could become extinct, vaxs, medical ethics, community vrs. family responsibility, that are really super heavy and not questions that MOST (not ALL, but MOST four year olds spend their time thinking about). Anyway, my older kids saw Alvin and the Chipmunks instead. DH said he hated every single minute of it, but I doubt the kids know since he didn't cry and beg to leave









Peace out - Happy New Year!


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beccalou79* 
Yes, it is a serious question. I have no way of knowing you've had that sort of discussion before, unless I ask. Remember that you yourself, in this very thread, have noted how people shouldn't assume things. So no need to pull out all those exasperated-looking emoticons, okay?

Since I've already said that we discuss what we are watching and model gentleness/non-violent communication at home, that should have answered your question. You were being patronizing, plain and simple.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be.







My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.


Yep.

Thats the thing with these studies...they can say "oh, heart rate increased" or "oh look, the same area is activated when you do X as when Y happens"...but they can't say what that means for each individual child, if its good, bad, or indifferent.

I have yet to read thread upon thread about the evils of rollercoasters.

That being said, if i were in a theater,and there were children there crying, i think i'd be within my rights to complain to management (just like any other disturbance)....although i'm offended that some theaters won't allow nurslings in to R rated movies "at any time" (thats our local theater)...i was able to take my son to TONS of movies until he was about 8 months old, then he was too vocal and squirmy...it wasnt too loud, and if you are worried about that there are ways to protect the ears or dull the noise (such as sitting in the back, baby wearing a hat over the ears etc.)

Katherine


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## shanetedissac (Apr 26, 2002)

I have been to movies where it is very violent and graphic and there were pre-schoolers. Some parents just don't get it!

Be well,


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
They have a REAL choice in what they want in life as they are not bombarded with ads and marketing.

Kids who see commercials and marketing can also be capable of making free decisions about what they like and don't like. While my daughter is nowhere near bombarded with advertising (she doesn't generally watch tv with commercials), she is very particular about her likes and dislikes. She hates Dora, for instance, despite having cousins who love and are obsessed with the character . . . most of her "likes" are things her friends and cousins don't know anything about or don't enjoy.

She also has an incredible imagination, loves the outdoors and would choose being read to, playing a game, or doing a craft over any other activities, given the option. I just don't believe that media exposed kids are automatically mindless drones who cannot think for themselves. It's not at all true of me as a child, nor of my daughter. We are both not only creative people but are incredibly strong in our opinions (many/most of which differ from a lot of our peers).


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa* 
Perhaps we are saying that we don't see anything detrimental about whatever brain effects there may be.







My kids have watched a lot of TV of all kinds: violence, love scenes, comedy, dumb humor like American Pie, classics, etc. I am fully willing to admit that it's affected them. Everything affects us... things we hear, do, see, people we interact with, food, sleep. I don't think that it's necessarily bad. Somethings are or can be unhealthy or not right for a person. I seek to help my kids find what those things are, and help them get what they want/need.

I (obviously) agree.


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## beccalou79 (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Since I've already said that we discuss what we are watching and model gentleness/non-violent communication at home, that should have answered your question. You were being patronizing, plain and simple.

If I had had time to read this entire thread today, you would be right. However, I have only been able to skim here and there, and I apparently missed the bit where you talked about gentleness at home, etc. I asked you those earlier questions out of genuine curiosity and to get a better grasp of the situation, but I'm tired of your snarky responses; I learn nothing from these kinds of exchanges.

Have a good night.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

Are they hooking kids up to MRI machines while their teachers drone on and on in the classroom? If they discovered that that uses the same part of the brain as any other form of torture...what then?
Of course. That IS torture


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

You had your child watch the Saw Trilogy. Wow. That's just abusive.
Mine watched it, too. Big whoop







I guess you'd better call CPS on me.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
There are people in this thread who have stated that they don't think "I Am Legend" is appropriate for kids in the 10-13 yr old range. I was stating my experience with that. My 11yo was changed (in a good, thought provoking way)by the movie. Its sad to me that some on this thread think my son should not have had that experience.

Yes, of course, at 11 my son is ready developmentally for things he was not ready for at 8 or at 5 or at 3....kids grow and learn every day. But there isnt one point at which you say "ok now you can choose"...its a gradual thing. There is a world of gray, a whole spectrum, between saying to your little child "No, you are not allowed to watch that, forget it, how horrible" and saying "sure, watch whatever, here ya go, have fun, hope ya dont get scared!"....there is ALOT of discussion, support, caution, preparation that can fall between those two extremes.

Katherine

The thread title is "Preschool age children in "I am Legend" so I am referring to preschool age children. Much of the fighting seems to be in reference to those very young children. Children who are really not at a developmental age at which you can really discuss what will be seen in movies like Saw or Hostel.

In our case there will be no magic point at which they can choose. At this point they are not even aware that such movies exist and even if they did they would have absolutely no desire to watch them. It is not even on their radar. I would assume that at the point when it becomes desirable we will approach it much as you have. Discussion, reading about what they may see, spoilers, etc. That would be the developmentally appropriate approach at that point.

I don't believe the claims that a 2, 3, or 4 year old was ready to converse about Saw and decide for herself that she wanted to see it. I can't even imagine that most kids would be aware of movies like under most normal circumstances.

The growing, learning, and changing every day is what eventually brings kids around to that ability (along with support and experience along the way). Why encourage that phase prematurely?


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

Quote:

I don't believe the claims that a 2, 3, or 4 year old was ready to converse about Saw and decide for herself that she wanted to see it.
I don't believe the sky is blue or grass is green. Doesn't make me right.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

FreeRangeMama just made a point I didn't articulate well when I mentioned serving as guides for our kids...my kids (4, 8ish and less than 1) wouldn't even have Saw or I am Legend on their radar unless dh and I put it there.


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama* 
I saw a no-tv allowed kid do something very like that once. He picked up a plastic toy spatula and threatened to cut another kids head off. Then he spent a whole hour saying "I'm going to kill you....etc." He was joined by another no-tv allowed kid and they continued to play that way.

Meanwhile the TV-exposed kids were quietly and cooperatively playing with Playdoh (homemade even-







)

I know these kids from playgroup and they pretty much ALWAYS play this way. Meanwhile the TV-exposed kids play much more creatively IMO and often play very gentle games. I don't think I've ever seen them act out that kind of violence.

Personally I think the difference is that the TV-exposed kids are given lots of opportunities for creative play and are also gently raised in a non-controlling way.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I've seen the same thing, and I agree. I think a non-tv kid could have a similar outcome *if* the parents were very free in other ways, but I think parents who are controlling of something like TV are probably controlling in other ways, as well.

First of all, we weren't discussing tv-watching in this thread. My kid watches plenty of tv, but that doesn't mean he's watching hacker movies any more than he's watching snuff porn.

And I really want to make sure I understand your point. You've NEVER seen a child who has been exposed to violent images act violently. All violent behavior that you've seen has been done by non-violence-watching children. Really? That's certainly not been my experience.

My point from my first post was lost, so I'll try again.

Do your children ever play act any of the plots they are exposed to? My son certainly does. He plays Nemo, Winnie the Pooh, Little House on the Prairie, etc. Most of my son's friends also play in this manner.

If your child never play acts the violent scenes, why do you think that s/he doesn't?

And if s/he does, do you think that's just tough beans for the parents and the children who have chosen a more cautious approach?


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys* 
FreeRangeMama just made a point I didn't articulate well when I mentioned serving as guides for our kids...my kids (4, 8ish and less than 1) wouldn't even have Saw or I am Legend on their radar unless dh and I put it there.


Do your kids ever watch tv? or perhaps get online, where ads pop up? How about walk through Blockbuster, where covers of these types of movies are routinely at eye level...does your 8 yr old go to school? They could easily learn about such movies from their friends.

We saw the preview for "I Am Legend" while watching another movie at the theater...i can't remember which movie, perhaps "Enchanted" or "The Golden Compass" as we've seen both recently. Then of course there are the ads on tv for the movie (which makes it look more like Cast Away in the city, or some action flick, and not scary)

My only point is that if you live in the world, and esp if you arent actively trying to prevent your kids from being exposed to such things, there are MANY ways for a child to learn about such movies without the parents "putting it there"....i cant tell you how many times we've been watching some innocuous tv show, like on Animal Planet or The Discovery Channel, and a scary ad for "Saw" would come on...or that creepy girl from The Ring...i've gotten good at diving for the remote and hitting "mute", as my son gets freaked out easily.

That being said....the movie that gave him the creeps, caused many a sleepless night and real fear, was a documentary we saw about black holes a few years ago....he was seriously afraid that he'd be sucked into a black hole. It was totally irrational, and he laughs about it now. But who knew that a science documentary about space could cause such trauma?!

Katherine


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
And I really want to make sure I understand your point. You've NEVER seen a child who has been exposed to violent images act violently. All violent behavior that you've seen has been done by non-violence-watching children. Really? That's certainly not been my experience.

Of the kids I know, the ones who act out violently are the ones who have stricter parents when it comes to media exposure. I'm not trying to say that exposed kids are never violent, just that my experience contradicts the common belief that _all_ exposed kids are.









Quote:

Do your children ever play act any of the plots they are exposed to?
Not very much. She is really into "Rent" right now and will play Maureen and dance around and sing her songs, but she did that before she saw the moviem just from listening to the soundtrack in the car.

Quote:

If your child never play acts the violent scenes, why do you think that s/he doesn't?
Most of her imaginary play is more realistic stuff . . . probably just her preference. She pretends to be a mommy, or a chef, or a vet, or an animal. The more I think about it, she really doesn't act out movies or tv.

Quote:

And if s/he does, do you think that's just tough beans for the parents and the children who have chosen a more cautious approach?
If she did . . . yeah, that's kind of what I think. I mean, you can't expect your kids to live in a bubble, and if you do, you better be really careful about letting them go to school with/play in the playground with/be in public with anyone who hasn't been parented in the exact same way.


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## l_olive (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If she did . . . yeah, that's kind of what I think. I mean, you can't expect your kids to live in a bubble, and if you do, you better be really careful about letting them go to school with/play in the playground with/be in public with anyone who hasn't been parented in the exact same way.

And this is where I have a problem. I don't see why one parent's right to expose their child to violence trumps the rights of others to not do so.

Several posts have been removed from the beginning of this thread, and I can't find the post that I would like to have quoted... something about getting pretty upset if someone asked management to have her young child removed from a violent movie? I believe that there was uproar about not telling another how to parent.

I believe your post teeters dangerously on doing exactly that. Because my son has never seen a hacker movie, I'm controlling and raising him in a bubble? And "I'd better be really careful?"

Luckily for me, the preschool my son attends does not tolerate violent play-acting of any type. In both instances that I described in a previous post, the children were sent home for the day.

I would also like to ask if you watch porn with your daughter, or if you limit her decision-making ability to that graphic level of sexual content? If you do not, why not?


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
I believe your post teeters dangerously on doing exactly that. Because my son has never seen a hacker movie, I'm controlling and raising him in a bubble? And "I'd better be really careful?"

I think you're well within your rights to decide not to expose your children to violent (or any other) type of media, but I would have said the same thing to anyone who was that particular about her child not being exposed to something . . . the world is a big and diverse place, and unless you only surround yourself with people who do things exactly like you, you are going to disapprove of things you and your children encounter. It happens to me, too . . . but it's just a part of life.

Quote:

I would also like to ask if you watch porn with your daughter, or if you limit her decision-making ability to that graphic level of sexual content? If you do not, why not?
We very rarely watch porn . . . I work with it a bit for my job and find most of it goofy rather than erotic. When we do watch, the kids are asleep. It's part of our sex life, not our entertainment, so it wouldn't make sense to watch with the kids. Besides, it's illegal, and I'm not going to have my kids taken away over it -- which is what I would tell dd if she found some and asked to watch it.


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## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
I don't believe the claims that a 2, 3, or 4 year old was ready to converse about Saw and decide for herself that she wanted to see it. I can't even imagine that most kids would be aware of movies like under most normal circumstances.


You won't get any arguments from me. I don't even know why you'd want to have that conversation. What if your child wasn't "ready" to see it? Now you've just made them aware of horrible things that they wouldn't have known about otherwise.


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## BelovedBird (Apr 5, 2002)

That was fascinating, thanks for the entertainment.


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## tootersmom (Apr 28, 2007)

I sat down here to post my thoughts, but - honest to God - I am so shocked by some of the comments in this thread, I cannot compose my post as I wanted. I just find it very _very_ sad. I guess there's nothing else I can say.


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

queenjane, my kids do watch tv, but we don't have cable so it is pretty much pbs kids and they don't run a bunch of ads for SAW or I am Legend or SuperBad during CyberChase. The one primetime show that they watch with us is the Amazing Race. Because the show is on so late we try to use the commercials to brush teeth, get jammies on, etc., but I am sure they catch an ad here. However, I can't remember it ever translating into asking to see an adult film. As for movie previews - again we don't go to the movies much, but when we do they are generally children's films and there are SOOO many ads that my kids rarely come out begging to see any ONE film.

My 8 year old does attend school. That is why he has asked to see some child-focused PG-13 movies (Harry Potter, Pirates, Transformers, Golden Compass) and we have discussed the plot with him and made a case-by-case decision WITH him. I doubt there are a bunch of 2nd graders running around and pumping up the movie SAW







: But again this thread did not start about 8 year olds - it started about PRESCHOOL age children (of which I have 2) so NO they don't attend a school where somebody is telling them about horror movies. There is a huge difference between what my 8 year old can handle and UNDERSTAND and what my 4 year old can handle and UNDERSTAND.

So I stand by my experience. DH and I would need to set the tone for my kids to be really interested in seeing these sorts of films at the ages they are right now. I am not saying this will hold true as they get older or is true for anybody elses kids, but I am fairly certain MOST 3 and 4 year olds aren't ASKING to see SAW.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
And I really want to make sure I understand your point. You've NEVER seen a child who has been exposed to violent images act violently. All violent behavior that you've seen has been done by non-violence-watching children. Really?

I can't say 100% as I'm sure that kids exposed to violent images DO act violently. But I'm also saying that I've seen plenty of violence acted out by kids who aren't exposed to that kind of imagery.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
Do your children ever play act any of the plots they are exposed to? My son certainly does. He plays Nemo, Winnie the Pooh, Little House on the Prairie, etc. Most of my son's friends also play in this manner.

Not that I've ever seen, no.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
If your child never play acts the violent scenes, why do you think that s/he doesn't?

I'm not 100% sure but I think part of it may be due to personality. They do play games like "police" sometimes but not with characters.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *l_olive* 
And if s/he does, do you think that's just tough beans for the parents and the children who have chosen a more cautious approach?

No, not at all. I don't like it when the kids I've known play aggressively, especially as it used to be directed against my kids. I do have the feeling the parents think that their kids are perfect and can do no wrong because they don't let them watch TV. These parents also don't supervise their kids very closely when it comes to playing-though they tend to be very present in every other area.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys* 
I am fairly certain MOST 3 and 4 year olds aren't ASKING to see SAW.

I agree.

We just took dd (3 1/2 to her first movie in a theater. It was The Red Balloon. She loved it. However, we also left after that one and didn't watch the next one, also a French children's short film called The White Mane. A few others left as well with their babies and very young children, but the vast majority of the theatergoers stayed. I know, however, that my sensitive dd would not have been able to handle that one comfortably.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys* 
But again this thread did not start about 8 year olds - it started about PRESCHOOL age children (of which I have 2) so NO they don't attend a school where somebody is telling them about horror movies. There is a huge difference between what my 8 year old can handle and UNDERSTAND and what my 4 year old can handle and UNDERSTAND.

So I stand by my experience. DH and I would need to set the tone for my kids to be really interested in seeing these sorts of films at the ages they are right now. I am not saying this will hold true as they get older or is true for anybody elses kids, but I am fairly certain MOST 3 and 4 year olds aren't ASKING to see SAW.

Well, this thread didnt start about "horror films" either...it was about "I Am Legend" which is NOT a "horror film"....it veered off into "preschoolers seeing "Saw" " later on.

I just dont think a four yr old in a Will Smith action film, with some scary bits, (which is how this film was advertised)is the issue people are turning it into.

That being said, a child crying to leave ANY movie, even a G rated cartoon, because they are scared (or for any other reason)IS an issue, and should have been handled by the parents. I would be upset about the child crying, regardless of what the movie was. To me, THAT is the real issue.

Katherine


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

From my perspective "I am Legend" was a horror movie.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 

That being said, a child crying to leave ANY movie, even a G rated cartoon, because they are scared (or for any other reason)IS an issue, and should have been handled by the parents. I would be upset about the child crying, regardless of what the movie was. To me, THAT is the real issue.


I totally agree. (Not a suprise lol)


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildmonkeys* 
From my perspective "I am Legend" was a horror movie.


Right, and for me it would likely be too much as well, but lots of people see it as a thriller/action/sci-fi type of thing too. It varies quite a bit. I think the genre isn't always so black and white.


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## somasoul (Mar 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Like I said already, I know my kids and I trust my instincts with them. I also know that my own experiences contradict yours.

I think it is silly for you (and others) to waste your time and energy worrying about what I and other parents choose for our families, when it comes to something as subjective as a movie, but if that's what you want to do, have fun.

I don't think young children should be at a movie like I am Legend. I can't remember a time when I hadn't seen movies like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Gremlins, etc. My parents showed these to me when I was home, though, not in theater.

I was in A History of Violence a couple years ago and had small children in there, maybe 4 - 6 and the movie was totally inappropiate.

If you think you're kids will be okay viewing this stuff rent the DVD. Don't pester movie goers because your kid is screaming to leave the theater, or running up and the stairs, or crying in an adult themed movie.

And, no, I am Legend was PG-13 and rightly so. No need for R. I'd let my kids see this at 8 or 9 perhaps. (I let my son see Spider-Man at 3, Pirates at 4. He can handle this stuff surprisingly well if we talk about it beforehand and what's to be expected. But not in the theaters.)


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *somasoul* 
If you think you're kids will be okay viewing this stuff rent the DVD. Don't pester movie goers because your kid is screaming to leave the theater, or running up and the stairs, or crying in an adult themed movie.

HUH???!!! My child has NEVER done any of those things in a movie theater, and I daresay she never would. She knows how to behave in the movies, and if she wasn't able to do that (in any movie, not just an adult-themed one) we would be out the door so fast her head would spin.

The only people who could possibly be bothered by my child being in a movie theater are people who are upset at the mere presence of a child where _they_ don't think one should be . . . and frankly, about that I couldn't care less.


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
We've seen the Saw trilogy (or are there four now?) and my five year old saw those with us either at home or in the theater, she saw Children of Men in the theater with us .











Why? Why? Why? Why does a 5 year old CHILD need to see images of death, torture, blood, violence??????????? WHY??????????










This just makes me sick.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 









Why? Why? Why? Why does a 5 year old CHILD need to see images of death, torture, blood, violence??????????? WHY??????????










This just makes me sick.










I agree, and still don't get it, even after many explanations. A FIVE YEAR OLD?!?!? I'm cool (sort of,lol) with an older child seeing this, but exposing a FIVE year old to torture, blood, violence makes me want to cry, too. That poor kid.


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