# Best natural family living city - What is important to you?



## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

We often get emails and posts about the best places to live and raise a family the natural family living way. To try to get some definitive answers and hopefully create a resource article on the topic we want to run a poll of the best natural family living cities. But to do that we need to define the things that make a city an ideal "natural family living" place to live (for readers new to the idea please read Peggy O'Mara's What is Natural Family Living? editorial).

We tossed around a lot of our own ideas that we'd like to see in the poll defining a city as natural family living friendly, but we thought the best thing to do would be to ask you - the Mothering community. So please tell us - what things do you think make a city an ideal natural family living place to raise a family?


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## luckiest (Apr 29, 2009)

As far as very specific things, I would look for a city...


that has single-stream recycling,
that has a city compost system or at least promotes composting through rebates for bins or something like that,
that allows back yard chickens and possibly mini livestock
that has an active chapters of natural family living organizations
that has farmer's markets and CSAs
that prioritizes parks and recreation

I live in Austin and I think it's a great place for natural family living. Lots of parks, farmer's markets, definite "hippie" vibe, loads of family-friendly and free activities, and there's even a big push to de-fluoridate the water.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

in addition to what was already said..

lots of birth options: birth centers, natural birth friendly hospitals that allow water birth, CNMs in hospital, legal, licensed midwives for home/birth center, providers who catch breech, vbac friendly, both in and out of the hospital.

alternative health practitioners, especially covered by insurance. good selection of MDs who support alternative vax schedules

local stores that sell slings, cloth diapers, etc

homeschool friendly


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

* breast feeding friendly

* lots of birthing options

* pesticide bans in all public and private spaces

* lots of options of healthy and affordable fresh foods

* great recycling, composting programs

* opportunities to take classes/workshops on green living

* great public transit

* lots of green space and lots of public spaces

* free and/or affordable family activities

* large public parks with hiking trails, bike trails, etc.

* lots of walkable communities ( good walk score).


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## sk8boarder15 (Jan 12, 2010)

A culture that supports

- Breastfeeding

- Birth choice/freedom

- Natural health

- Natural/real food.

- Relationships among families and communities.

We are moving to Portland soon partly becuase we feel these things are more supported there then here in chicago.


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## Elana Sifry (Jul 2, 2012)

Good public transportation and biking options are two that I don't see here already. Also of course an attitude of acceptance and community no matter what your choices are. Lots of different kinds of schooling programs and options for families wanting to school in non-traditional ways. Then of course breastfeeding friendly, lots of birth options, good recycling programs and composting programs.


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## mrs.t (May 10, 2010)

What a great question! I am anxious to read the poll when it is posted!

My top features of a "natural" city are:

1. Green markets nearby that sell organic and locally grown produce or a CSA

2. A farm nearby where one could buy milk, eggs, honey, etc.

3. Lots of parks, playgrounds, zoo, etc.

4. pre-k through 12th grade schooling options, besides city public schools and religious private schools

5. Alternative health care, which, in my opinion, would include naturopaths, midwives, birthing centers, holisitic peds

6. No vax or delayed vax friendly exemptions

7. Breastfeeding friendly

8. Walking distance restaurants and markets that sell whole and organic foods

9. Efforts to be sustainable whenever possible

10. Like-minded neighbors who are willing to share knowledge and work with each other


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## Ramzubo (Aug 4, 2010)

In addition to the above, I would need an initiative for the city to power down at night. Besides the obvious savings benefits, it is important to me that my family be able to experience the natural day/night cycle. I want my children to be able to see the stars at night which is a big part of natural living for me.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ramzubo*
> 
> In addition to the above, I would need an initiative for the city to power down at night. Besides the obvious savings benefits, it is important to me that my family be able to experience the natural day/night cycle. I want my children to be able to see the stars at night which is a big part of natural living for me.


That sounds like a great initiative! Do you know of any cities currently doing that? I know Santa Fe has a low lights ordinance for street lights for that very reason.


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## loveandgarbage (Feb 5, 2008)

Thinking of my town (Madison, WI) as an example... the only thing I don't see mentioned is bike paths/bike-friendly streets. One thing my town doesn't have is safe drinking water (okay, it's technically safe but there are issues due to agricultural and industrial dumping) so I would put that on the list too!


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## Ramzubo (Aug 4, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher*
> 
> That sounds like a great initiative! Do you know of any cities currently doing that? I know Santa Fe has a low lights ordinance for street lights for that very reason.


I'm only aware of some cities with the low light ordinance you mentioned. I think that's a move in the right direction, but far too many businesses still contribute to light pollution even after closing.


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Farmer's markets, food co-ops, healthy food options
Thrift stores, yard sales, builders second hand stores, and other options for reusing items
Clean air including environmental tobacco smoke
Quiet (many cities have airport noise - huge problem in Las Vegas)
Close to state or national parks
Close to body of water
Support groups including LLL, active Meetup community, volunteer groups
Natural beauty
Public school choices - traditional, magnet, charter, online, other
Homeschool support groups including secular (not homeschooling for religious reasons)


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

In addition to all of the above, I would add affordable housing and living costs to make it possible for families to have one parent caring for the children at all times. Some of the cities that I've heard about being really wonderful places to live -- as far as great public transportation and so on -- have such a high cost of living that it requires both parents to work pretty much full time.


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## parsley (May 7, 2011)

I would add affordable cultural events/venues where children can comfortably attend (concerts in parks, museums with children's programs that are affordable, etc...) Not about the physical environment but it's an important part of the social/community environment to me.

Some other things:

-opportunities for community gardens

-community reuse programs (coop stores to reuse/rehab old construction materials, old bikes, etc...)

-local artist community

-local activist communities


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## Peggy O'Mara (Nov 19, 2001)

Clean Air

Clean Water

Medical Alternatives

Educational Alternatives

Local Food/Farmer's Markets

Homebirth and Midwifery Options

Diversity

Culturally Inclusive

Quiet

Civil

Parks/Trials/Nature


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

We have lived in the city for ten years and are raising our three children there. I love the city for more reasons than I could probably express in a short post, but here is my list of favorites:


Sidewalks. And this isn't just a safety thing--I think there's something romantic about having neighbors and passers-by walking through your yard. It engenders a deeper sense of community in the surrounding area. In addition to the sidewalks, we have many bike paths and bike routes that are great for biking, but also running, walking, roller-blading, and skateboarding. 
Proximity. We are close to everything. In a two-mile radius we have seven schools, one university, four libraries, at least a hundred restaurants, grocers, open markets, pharmacies (even a compounding pharmacy!), bookstores, fitness clubs, swimming pools, playgrounds, museums, theaters...the list could go on and on. At three years old, all of my children could walk a round-trip four miles, especially if we had somewhere fun to go!!
Diversity. There is a beauty to the rhythm of the city...its hum includes everyone.
Size. The city is big, but we all live small. Sharing is something that urban dwellers are used to because there isn't always enough room to keep everything that you want. If a neighbor has it, borrow it. Want my serger for the weekend? No problem!!! You can make that chic sundress pattern you've been dying to try...just let me borrow the rotisserie for our dinner party!! In our small apartment, we're limited by the size. If something comes in, something must go out. In other words, if it isn't really, REALLY important, we don't buy. And that amounts to a life of imposed simplicity. It's something that takes a little time to get used to, but once you realize the gift, you never let go.
Community. In the country, you're one with nature. You sing to the wilderness and you think for yourself. In the city, people sing for each other and think together. They collaborate and integrate, and with so many hands working, the pace picks up and the work gets done. If you love people, the city is the place to be. Universities, museums, art galleries, coffee shops, theaters, concerts, dances, movies, poetry readings, ecology centers, political debates, and so many other things that highlight the scope of the human academy are the heart of every metropolis.
Three Stories. Our city home is called Three Stories. On each story of our house resides a different family. I live on the first floor with my husband and our three children. My parents reside in a separate apartment on the second floor. On the third floor lives my sister with her husband and their two children. It isn't perfect, but it comes very, very close. Three Stories is, and always will be, my favorite part about life in the city. 

Maggie

http://www.three-stories.com/


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Maggie -- what an inspiring post and what a wonderful blog!


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

Thank you, Susan!! You know, we all moved to the city to live a more "sustainable" lifestyle. Some people thought it was strange (don't you move to the country to compost and get off the grid!?), but I could see a glimmer of beauty in it all. It is a lifestyle that is simple and full of sharing. Simplicity and sustainability without having to do it all yourself.

The lists that people have put on this thread are fantastic--but, for the most part, every city has most of these things. The thing about cities is that they have a little bit of EVERYTHING. If you want to hook up with natural families...it may take a little bit of looking, but they're there. If you really can't find them, start your own group and you'll see how popular all of the great ideas of natural parenting really are!! If you want community gardens, give your alderman a call. She/he'll know where they are and will direct you--most likely they're well hidden and "off the beaten path". Or, in our case, have some small gardens on your small property (not enough to feed everyone), and become the CSA drop-off site. You get fresh organic veggies delivered right to your door and they even pick up the weekly compostable waste!! Bike routes? People in the city have been using bikes as primary modes of transportation since bikes were invented! You're likely to find a group of cyclists who can map out the best routes. Maybe (as in our city) they've been instrumental in making the entire city bike-friendly. All of the great ideas that you can think up...well, someone in the city has probably been thinking the same thing...and, in most cases, they're already doing it. "Recycling" started when cities wanted to cash in on all of the money that homeless people made by going through the trash. Collecting cans used to give an honest wage in the tens of thousands of dollars, and still does in some cities. Just the size and scale of things in the city imposes simplicity on everyone.

And there are ways to make it less-expensive too. We live together with family, and that kept me home with my children until I went back to teaching a few years ago when my youngest started school. Where there's a will, there's a way. And the most grand part about the city is that you can find more people like you. Communities really are the way to get things done. We're all writing our own stories in the world...there aren't any perfect answers. But I can say that doing it with family and friends around makes it infinitely more beautiful!!

Do you have any interesting stories about living in the city? It has to be adventurous working at home and unschooling your girls in the city!!! I can only imagine the excitement!!!

Maggie


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *herbsmd*
> 
> Thank you, Susan!! You know, we all moved to the city to live a more "sustainable" lifestyle. Some people thought it was strange (don't you move to the country to compost and get off the grid!?), but I could see a glimmer of beauty in it all. It is a lifestyle that is simple and full of sharing. Simplicity and sustainability without having to do it all yourself.


I have to second this. Living small, public transit, diversity of people and diversity of resources, etc. is what keeps us in the city.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Maggie, we've had some very encouraging experiences and some NOT so encouraging ones. We spent about a year raising free-range chickens, turkeys, and ducks in our large (double-lot) fenced-in yard (using our detached garage as a sort of barn, which we space-heated in the winter and used window ventilation and fans for cooling in the summer), and had thought we were within the legal guidelines, until Animal Control showed up, showed us the new guidelines, and took them all away. This was so heartbreaking to all of us, and especially to our older daughter who had named all of our birds and was very close to them.

The hard thing is, lots of our neighbors still raise chickens -- they just don't have as many as we did (about 15 birds total; we didn't know it was illegal to raise turkeys unless it's on farms for slaughter -- we were just eating the eggs, not the birds), and they -- the neighbors -- just haven't been officially "noticed." But now that we have been noticed, we have to be really careful. And we got noticed because our (current) next door neighbors are in business buying old, non-working cars, taking them apart, and reselling the parts (this seems to have slowed down for the time being), which has resulted in neighbors making complaints because our street is not zoned for business, many of our neighbors have no off-street parking and do not like having the spaces in front of their houses blocked by his cars, and do not like the noise. A police officer noticed our birds in our yard while talking to the neighbor about his cars and called Animal Control.

I still lean towards wanting to make life work in the city. We did have one co-housing experience that I thought was really wonderful. Our previous next door neighbors, whom we became good friends with, were having a hard time affording their rent so we invited them to live in an "apartment" of sorts that we made by closing off our living room and dining room (which already had doors). They had the use of the downstairs bathroom, we all shared the kitchen, which also has a small table, and we had our own "family room" upstairs in my office.

This arrangement was supposed to last for about six months, but our friends ended up moving to another state after about one month because of a better job offer for the husband.

My husband didn't enjoy this shared housing experience as much as our daughters and I did.

At this point, if we have the opportunity to sell for a good price (houses are difficult to sell in this neighborhood), dh and dd1 really, really want to move to the country in order to be able to raise chickens again, and maybe have a horse, too. And to not have to deal with difficult neighbors. I still love the city, even though I don't have a supportive extended family like you do...and dh and I are tentatively talking about really familiarizing ourselves with the new guidelines for raising chickens, getting signatures from neighbors, and trying to do this again right here.

Our city, Kansas City, MO is gradually becoming more and more bike-friendly. The city has just instituted a bike rental program where you can rent a bicycle in one part of the city and return it to another part, and the first 30 minutes is free. But we still have a long way to go before we'll be a truly bike-friendly city. Our public transportation system also needs a lot of work.

We do have curbside paper and plastic recycling, and we also garden and we compost (well, dh and dd1 do pretty much all of the gardening).

I love our neighborhood like I love our old house -- with all its flaws and everything...dh and dd1, not so much. When dh and dd1 went out of town for a few days in June, dd2 and I were out in front enjoying the rain, and we visited a little bit with our current next door neighbors. And dd was waving and smiling at the little boy and girl who are close to her age, and whom she used to play with when they first moved in...and after we went in, she cried about how she wanted to be friends with them again.

We'd initially been friendly with them -- but hard feelings developed between dh and the other husband/dad because when their little boy kept trying to open our gate to let our dog run out, the dad would just stand there and let him, and acted like he didn't understand English well enough to understand when dh was calling through the front door for them to shut the gate, and dh got mad and the neighbor got mad...

And I totally understand dh's frustration about the somewhat different values. But I still can't help wishing that, somehow, we could all be friends. I don't know quite how to get from where we are to where we want to be -- and I do realize I can't force everyone else onto the same page that I'm on -- but I keep hoping that somehow this will evolve into a life that we can all see as beautiful, even if it's very flawed and imperfect and frustrating at times.


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

Susan, I hear your frustration! Losing chickens would be very hard for any child--I can only imagine!!!

Living together with three families hasn't always been easy either!! We have difficult moments sometimes, but my mom and I joke that just ironing out these difficulties is like earning a new degree. It isn't easy, but in the end you learn so much about yourself and about people in general and that kind of wisdom is something that you simply need to earn anyway. Being candid, I have found, is always better than hiding away and not knowing...talk to your neighbor and let her know. I have a feeling she probably feels the same way! A pot of coffee when no husbands are around is one of those things that works magic in its own way.

I think that women are the ones who create community--in general. If we give them single tasks, men will support it as they can...but it is up to women to weave together those threads. That means learning how to balance many things at one time is our life's work. In a nutshell, that's what we're all doing on this Mothering website. It is a community dedicated to the weaving of motherhood. It has gone on for years before us and will go on as long as we inhabit the planet. That impulse to hold our children forever, to walk with our husbands, to honor our parents, and to plant our feet firmly on the earth is a part of everything we do--and it's something that lives in women all over the world.

Part of the beauty of the modern world is our community. We can connect with one another from all over the world--our stories and our shared experiences can be brought together instantly from different sides of the world, from different communities, and through that connection that we all have as mothers. Wherever you lay your head at night, you will at least have your community close by. In the city, that community is very near. Maybe if you move to the country, you'll connect more through the internet. Whatever way you choose, I'm sure you'll be able to create your home wherever you land...after all, that's our job!!

Thanks for sharing!!
Maggie


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## LoveToBeMom (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh, I love this topic! I can't wait to find out the city (or cities) that meet these criteria!!! My husband is planning to go back to school and start a second career, for which we'll have to leave our current rural hometown. It's exciting and fun and challenging to think of all the options out there. Thank you, Mothering, for doing the work and figuring out the best place to live! If I have my way, we'll move to whichever city you deem the winner!

Thanks again.


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## EmbraceLife (Jun 22, 2012)

Love this post! We are moving this year with the goal of living more naturally. Moving out of a larger city!


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

-clean air and water- accomplished in part by use of alternative energy sources such as wind and solar, a user-friendly/family-friendly public transportation system (that's why we left Atlanta, so much smog and lack of user-friendly public transportation system)

-relatively low cost of living (low average rent, reasonably prices homes with decent mortgage rates)

-low-unemployment rate and plenty of ethical, family-oriented businesses

-plenty of hiking trails, nature preserves, farms where families can experience nature together

-access to alternative preschools and public education options (Montessori schools, elementary schools which emphasize fine arts or world languages etc.)

-Environment which promotes and provides opportunities for community and connecting with others

-Plenty of alternative health practitioners (naturopaths, homebirth midwives, doctors of traditional Chinese medicine, etc.)


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

Public transportation is really important to me too. When we were in Detroit, MI for a wedding, I was surprised to find that there is such a little emphasis on transportation. I spoke with an urban planner not long ago and I mentioned this. He explained that the auto industry wanted a city where the emphasis was on making it a driving-friendly city. Because of this, and because of the down-turned economy (loss of jobs in the auto industry to compound that), the city suffered terribly. Now they are trying to revive the city based on the public transit system. It's a good illustration of how interconnected things can be in an urban setting.

I love your list, Jen!!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Sidewalks and bike lanes
Options for out of hospital birth
Health food stores
Farmer's markets
Parks and playgrounds


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Lots of parks and swimming pools, libraries, and great schools.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

These are great lists, and I love what others are saying!

On the top of my list are: cooperative grocery store, farmers markets, community gardens, lots of bike paths, good public transportation, car sharing program, excellent de-centralized library system, strong neighborhoods with their own character & events (festivals, street parties, etc.), many public parks, many community arts organizations, ethnic diversity, gay-friendliness.

In terms of the cost of living question, what I'm most interested in is seeing that the community invests in itself, not necessarily that taxes are low (for example). And I expect to invest in my community in a variety of ways, including financially. My city (Madison, WI) is not outrageously expensive, but is high for the Midwest, and our property taxes are definitely higher than in the other Midwest college towns that I've lived in. But what we get for our tax dollars is so fantastic, I'm happy to pay it. We have amazing parks, bike paths, libraries, a jillion free or low-cost things to do with kids, excellent snow removal and street cleaning, to name just a few. We've been able to get rid of owning a car altogether because of the great alternatives in our community. I personally would rather live in a community where the cost of living is a little higher, and so I need to economize on my household budget, but my quality of life is outstanding because I have access to so many fabulous community resources.


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## begoniamama (Nov 30, 2011)

I echo everything that has been said, and these lists are making me fall in love with city life even more. Pretty much everything that has been mentioned in this post exists in my town, which isn't 'technically' a city i wouldn't say. it's not really the country either, but it's a great mix of both. it's surrounded by farms which makes it easy to get pasture raised eggs, meat etc but has a lovely culture to it as well, with a bustling downtown. I moved here from a more urban place (very natural living friendly) where i could walk to a billion things from my house and now i have to drive into town. this alone has made me really miss the city! but we wanted land and space, and that wasn't happening for the price in the city. now at night we can see the stars, my kids will grow up with a forest/animal farm in their backyard, we grow most of the food we eat, and most importantly, my family lives 5 minutes away. In my personal experience, Austin, Portland and Berkeley are the most natural family living friendly cities i have seen. we'll see who wins!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> In terms of the cost of living question, what I'm most interested in is seeing that the community invests in itself, not necessarily that taxes are low (for example). And I expect to invest in my community in a variety of ways, including financially.


Me too. We pay very high city taxes in my town, but the return is amazing: super amazing public parks, pools, ice rinks, subsidized transportation, funds for bike lanes, etc. The city is even devoting funds to roof-top farming here (for those not familiar with NYC - we have a lot of flat roof-tops - including huge industrial complexes who have agreed to allow farming on their roofs). You know, this concept would have been inconceivable 20 years ago, but I think the demand for green living has finally taken hold and even people who you wouldn't expect to agree to this type of stuff are excited about it. I belong to a massive food co-op where more and more "mainstream" people are buying into the concept of sustainable living. So much has happened since my youth (although not fast enough) but it excites me!


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

My city is known to be great in practically all the ways mentioned above. Except the power-down at night idea - I had never heard of that but look forward to learning more.

A couple features I love that I don't think have been mentioned:

Welcoming and supportive to immigrants and refugees - I think we all benefit from fresh ideas, cultures, and experiences. This is especially true for children.

Good services for elders - not only do we need to remember that "family" means all generations and stages. Our kids benefit from the reality of contact with elders as part of their community.


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## Crys Andson (Jul 18, 2011)

For my family natural play areas are a must ! this area includes things like, river, creak, ocean ect. acsess, as well as large wooded areas for exploration.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

One thing I forgot to add that I love about Kansas City, Missouri is all the community pools that offer free swim time at different times of the week. Because of this, we are able to take our girls swimming three different afternoons a week during the summer.

Of course, this may not be unique to my city. Do other city pools have free days?


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

Susan, we have free swim every weekday during the summer from 1-3, just two blocks from our house. It is inside, but when we don't want to go to our outdoor pool (too hot, raining, etc.) we'll go over to take a dip. We have a bunch of pools that do that around the entire city. Those are our tax dollars at work!!

Crys, I think that's a good point. I kind of lumped that in with "diversity", but it's actually worth saying on its own. I know our city is relatively good with immigration, but we have heard horror stories too, from our friend who is an immigration attorney. Fresh ideas and perspectives are one of the reasons that we love the city. It just has so much energy!!! My husband is a philosophy professor and we live almost on the university campus and three miles away from another major university as well. That also brings new and fresh ideas/people to the mix.

We live sandwiched in between a great lake and a river. If you walk just a few blocks east or west, you will run into water. At the river's edge, the city almost entirely disappears and, except for a few sights as you travel down the river, you cannot tell that the location is an urban one. Our favorite is to go and watch the salmon swimming upstream. We also occasionally go canoing and bird watching there. We regularly see heron, fox, deer, and a host of wildlife that you would never expect live in the middle of an urban landscape!!!

Cats Cradle, I agree with you--so many things are happening in our city that are just so exciting! It seemed like all at once when the city suddenly jumped on the ecological bandwagon, and although I do think we were doing a great job when it felt like it was just a few of us, I think it's incredible what we've accomplished with so many people on board!! We don't power down at night, but it could be something to suggest to the county supervisor who lives only a few houses away.

I think people are surprised to hear that you can live really naturally/sustainably in a city. Sometimes I think everyone has this idea that cities are big dirty places and that the only good/safe places to live are far out in the country/suburbs. We moved to the city because I really wanted to live somewhere where everything we wanted was within walking distance. Because we can walk/bike just about everywhere, we cut out on our carbon footprint by such a big margin. Because we can recycle just about everything, and have someone pick up our compost, we end up with very little in our waste bin. We use gas and electricity, but our house is much smaller than we'd afford in the suburbs and therefore we use less gas/electricity than we would with a much bigger house. And also our house has three families--when one person heats their home, it is shared (through the floors) with the other homes. And as I said before, we don't have much space and so we have to live a life of imposed simplicity. I don't know that, if I had lived in a bigger house with a huge basement and an attic, I would have been so clever...nor would I have learned to live with less. My children have grown up without many useless toys, and because we regularly take things over to the goodwill (we have one two blocks away!) they also know how to part with things and to give freely. Every time a friend comes over, my children send them home with any toy that their friend likes to play with! I'm always surprised at how they can part with toys/things so easily since I was never like that as a child--in fact, I was very possessive of my things!

In any event, I think this is such a great thread. People downplay living in the city because of the obvious disadvantages...but they are so small in comparison to what things we all get in return. Once my husband suggested we move to the country and try to live off the land. Just thinking of it brought me nearly to tears. I love people and we have such an incredible community that even the thought of leaving gave me a heartache. Not everyone loves people and community as much as we do, but it is so many little things that we enjoy about city life that make it all worth while. I'm sure it isn't for everyone, but I'm also sure that there are some people who would never try it if all they heard was the crime, smog, and noise.

Maggie


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## LoveToBeMom (Apr 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamarhu*
> 
> My city is known to be great in practically all the ways mentioned above.


Do tell! What IS this perfect city?!


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I live in a pretty crunchy smaller university town(s).

Here are things I like about our area:

Free city buses

Great food scene (restaurants, farmer's markets, CSAs, community gardens)

Great local co-op, also Trader Joe's and Whole Foods (my area of about 80,000) is able to support all these plus mainstream groceries and specialty food stores

Great art & music scene

Free standing birth center

Many alternative health providers

Top notch traditional medical providers

Expanding greenway system

Many bike lanes (big bike culture with lots of folks having a bike for primary transport)

Good parks & rec centers

Natural spaces in-town

Local festivals (music, crafts)

Town recycling, town sells compost bins periodically and encourages composting although they don't pick it up

Very LGBT friendly

Excellent public schools

Great alternative private schools (Waldorf, Friends, Forest Kindergarten)

Fantastic secular homeschooling community

Backyard chicken friendly

Lots of natural wooded yards and lots of gardens in front yards as well as back yards.

Great public library (has the highest circulation of any library in the state)

There is a free city pool and also an aquatic center with a nominal fee ($2 per person?) as well as many neighborhood pools (membership fee), and the Y pool.

Geographically we're about 3 hrs from the beach and about 3 hrs from the mountains. There are plenty of woods, creeks, rivers, and lakes to play in right around here, but it's nice to have the beach and the mountains for a weekend getaway.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Sidewalks. I never thought about how important they are until I moved into a neighborhood without any. It is awful. Portland is a very walking friendly town, and in my neighborhood, no one walks.

Safe bike corridors.

Availability of fresh food/local food.

Public Transit options.

Lots of open space/parks/available nature.

A variety of housing options.

I'm sure I will come up with more.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I think the sidewalk issue depends on how much car traffic the neighborhood/street gets. We have a good amount of sidewalks on the busy roads in our town, but in our neighborhood we don't even have curbs and gutters and it doesn't impede anyone walking because it's such a low traffic area. (No through streets). One thing our neighborhood does make difficult is biking because it's so hilly and curvy, but the dedicated still do it. I'm a wimp and avoid the hills by going out our backyard and that's relatively flat. I can get to the greenway pretty easily from there (maybe .5 miles) and from the greenway it's about 1.5 miles to the library.

I think the thing that makes the most difference to me when thinking about Natural Family Living is being in a community of like-minded people. Even if our town didn't have all the great amenities it currently does, if we're in community we can make those things happen.


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> One thing I forgot to add that I love about Kansas City, Missouri is all the community pools that offer free swim time at different times of the week. Because of this, we are able to take our girls swimming three different afternoons a week during the summer.
> 
> Of course, this may not be unique to my city. Do other city pools have free days?


Indoor pools in our city charge $1 for drop-in swimming for indoor pools. You can get discounts if you purchase a 10 time punch card or unlimited swimming on a 3, 6 or 12 month basis.

The outdoor pools are free. There are 96 outdoor pools across the city. Some of them are just wading pools, but others are larger swimming pools with toddler pools, accessible walk in pools, larger swimming pools with deep ends, and even some pools with dedicated pools for water slides. They have washrooms, change rooms and showers. And all free.

(I live in Toronto).


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## greenacresmama (May 15, 2007)

deleted.

I think the list is great but I would say walking pleasantly is one big one. With more than 3 children and what we carry to stay healthy, walking works, subways do too. Buses, ehh.

No fracking in joining counties.

Not a high level of factory farming near by, or dioxin releasing onto farm land places (I think cotton and paper products are the worst right?

Not so many interstates near all the farming (green barriers)

I would pick very little takeout over a jumbo amount of fast food, but any good Vegetarian places would be my top picks.

ETA: I just went to a Asheville and now Ithaca and fear I might be changing my view on my picked out place. It think any kind of presence - companies, plants, or just plain marketing - is actually a statement of the people there. I felt it. I really could jump on that vs a nice wealthy city with lots of resources. I like the popularity of the holistic lifestyle being the first thing you say about a place vs a sprinkle. I think it is always in the progressive mix, but I view progressive and holistic sometimes can be taken differently. I would view holistic as having a spiritual element that is also progressive.


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## EmbraceLife (Jun 22, 2012)

I've really been thinking about WHY we are moving.

We want out of the big city. We want to live in a smaller community.

More healthcare choices that we believe in.

NATURE - hiking trails, beaches, nature preserves, farms

ENVIRONMENT - easily and readily available scenery, recreation ...

Family Friendly area, Racially friendly area

We will be gardening, living as sustainable as possible, adding a couple solar panels and harvesting rain water.

I'm anxious for fresher air and better water.

I'm also looking forward to the holistic healthcare, an area where alternative care is more the norm.

We love hiking, walking on beaches and just getting out. We are thrilled that we are still able to wear the boys in their Action Baby Carriers! The carriers will hold them for about 10-15 MORE pounds!

We have visited the area and we hoping they'll accept a multi-racial family. We've seen a lot of diversity so we're hoping so.

Big goals, big dreams ... but as we keep saying to each other ... this is happening!


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## Vegan Princess (Jun 20, 2007)

I definitely think Berkeley fits almost all of those criteria. But low costing of living - definitely not!!

Cindy


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## laurabfig (Mar 1, 2004)

We currently live in Berkeley. I agree it is one of the most ideal cities for natural family living. I absolutely love it here and until recently could never have considered living anywhere else with my family. But the cost of living is overwhelming here and unsustainable for us, even though we live very simply. We are feeling as though we can't stay here long term. I was thrilled to see Madison Wisconsin listed by some other posters. My brother and sister-in-law live there and on a recent visit we began to consider if we could be really happy there too. It is mostly the cold weather that makes me worried that I'll be miserable!!







I do think having definite seasons though adds a rhythm to life; busy outdoor times during nice weather and restful quiet indoor times during the cold winters can be very balancing in a way. (or am I trying to convince myself of this so that we can move to Madison?) lol
Does anyone consider weather as a factor in determining if a city is natural family living friendly?


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laurabfig*
> 
> Does anyone consider weather as a factor in determining if a city is natural family living friendly?


I don't think it's a big consideration for Natural Family Living unless you're going for more eco-friendly. The Bay Area probably has lower heating and cooling bills than most places in the country with the moderate climate. Aside from that I think you can be pretty NFL in most places. Maybe Antarctica makes it tricky.

I do think climate is a big factor in where a family will be happy, though. People move to our area (in the South) and aren't prepared for the humidity, bugs, heat, (and humidty and humidity and humidity). Some learn to adapt and some end up moving back to wherever they came from.


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## lifeabroad (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beanma*
> 
> I live in a pretty crunchy smaller university town(s).
> 
> ...


If you aren't in Carrboro, NC then it sounds EXACTLY like it!! I was just looking to see if anyone mentioned it


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## Vegan Princess (Jun 20, 2007)

Yeah we live in Berkeley. My husband lived in Carrboro for a few years before moving here. He refers to it as the Berkeley of the east coast. We talked at great length about moving there bc of the lower cost of living. But being from California, I just don't know that I'd ever fully adapt to the humidity and mosquitos. And that is a big issue for me. I think it would really impact how much time I'm willing to spend outside - and that is important. But I'm a wuss.

Cindy


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Actually I'm in Chapel Hill, but pretty much same difference (don't tell Carrboro I said that).

Vegan Princess this is a very outdoor friendly community. People definitely are out and about all summer, but if heat and mosquitos are your bugaboos then it might not be the place for you.

Natural Family Living is definitely easy here. Same in Asheville. You might like that area better VP. Less heat and maybe less mosquitos, too.


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## Vegan Princess (Jun 20, 2007)

Beanma: Oh no doubt people are out and about. I just seem to get eaten alive by mosquitos and the bites swell up huge. So I am way more of a wuss about them than most people I encounter. And I didn't grow up with any humidity so I can't stand that either. But I definitely realize that most other people aren't nearly as bothered by those things as me. LOL. ;-) My husband loves being out at night there.

I didn't spend much time in Asheville - only a few hours. My DH has told me how awesome it is and it was definitely beautiful. Unfortunately, t it just doesn't have the type of job base that would support us based on what DH and I do.

Cindy


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laurabfig*
> 
> We currently live in Berkeley. I agree it is one of the most ideal cities for natural family living. I absolutely love it here and until recently could never have considered living anywhere else with my family. But the cost of living is overwhelming here and unsustainable for us, even though we live very simply. We are feeling as though we can't stay here long term. I was thrilled to see Madison Wisconsin listed by some other posters. My brother and sister-in-law live there and on a recent visit we began to consider if we could be really happy there too. It is mostly the cold weather that makes me worried that I'll be miserable!!
> 
> ...


Madison is not as cold as it used to be, and it's getting warmer. That's kind of a scary thought, actually, because it's probably due to climate change. But we've had very mild winters (comparatively) for the past few years. In fact, places south of us have been getting more snow than we have. And we are having a very hot summer by Madison standards. More and more, Madison reminds me of central Missouri, where I grew up. And for me, that's not a good thing! I like a cold winter and a mild summer! Also, we are having a drought right now. Not a good thing.

Not that I want to discourage you from considering Madison! It's an AWESOME place to live! PM me if you want more details!

My perspective is that climate change is doing a number on everyone's weather, so probably the only weather factor to be considered when moving somewhere is, can I deal with changing weather patterns? It seems like everywhere weather is less and less "typical." We're all going to have to learn to adapt, no matter where we live. Just my 2 cents.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Based on all the input here's what I have. I left a few things out that were either too vague or would be difficult to determine.

OUTDOORS


large wooded areas for exploration
Sidewalks and bike paths
low lights ordinance
lots of green space and lots of public spaceslots of walkable communities ( good walk score)
large public parks with hiking trails, bike trails, etc. prioritizes parks and recreation
Quiet (no airport noise)
close to state or national parks
close to body of water

COMMUNITY AND SERVICES


composting programs
recycling/single-stream recycling
variety of housing options
welcoming and supportive to immigrants and refugees; diverse and culturally Inclusive
affordable housing and living costs 
pesticide bans in all public and private spaces
car sharing program
great public transit
libraries/de-centralized library system
good services for elders
plenty of ethical, family-oriented businesses 
support groups including LLL, active Meetup community, volunteer groups
natural beauty
efforts to be sustainable whenever possible
thrift stores, yard sales, builders second hand stores, and other options for reusing items
local stores that sell slings, cloth diapers, etc
free and/or affordable family and child-friendly activities 
active chapters of natural family living organizations

FOOD


farmer's markets and CSAs; lots of options of healthy and affordable fresh foods
farm nearby where one could buy milk, eggs, honey, etc.
opportunities for community gardens
walking distance restaurants and markets that sell whole and organic foods
allows back yard chickens and possibly mini livestock

EDUCATION


homeschool friendly
homeschool support groups including secular (not homeschooling for religious reasons)
pre-k through 12th grade schooling options, besides city public schools and religious private schools - traditional, magnet, charter, online, other

HEALTH


variety of birth options: birth centers, natural birth friendly hospitals that allow water birth, CNMs in hospital, legal, licensed midwives for home/birth center, providers who catch breech, vbac friendly, both in and out of the hospital. 
alternative health practitioners and centers, including naturopaths, midwives, birthing centers, holisitic pediatricians
good selection of MDs who support alternative vax schedules
no vax or delayed vax friendly exemptions
breast feeding friendly
clean air including environmental tobacco smoke

Anything else?


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## CalmCenter (Apr 27, 2009)

I live in Chico, CA

there are so many things I love about this city.

Park running the whole length of the city.

Bike paths are prioritized. Possible to bike safely anywhere in town.

Great playgrounds.

Huge creek-fed public pool.

Outdoor concerts, family friendly activities.

Year round farmers market

Many organic farms, and organic food available in abundance

Active homeschooling and unschooling communities

Several alternative charter school options as well

Low humidity in the summer

Close to lots of outdoor activities

Dance community

Lots of yoga classes, meditation, anything you could want spiritually or artistically

Things I don't love:

poor air quality parts of the year

Heat in the summer (90s is norm during part of the summer, and some 100 degree days as well)


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## whatifedmychild (Jul 18, 2012)

These are the two things that impact us and our community both, walkability including safe biking, and clean drinking water. I can find and support many other things, but these are fundamental from day one, especially when living in a new community.


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## gozal (Nov 7, 2008)

What about being near extended family as an aspect of natural family living? To me that is definitely an aspect of "natural," if in a different way. There are also cultural factors for those who are part of minority communities, like my bicultural, bilingual family. There are cities that otherwise match many of our criteria (theoretically, if we were able to move) but that wouldn't really work for us because we wouldn't have a supportive community to celebrate holidays with or to educate our kids in (e.g. uncommon minority language). So I think any list of criteria for natural family living would have to be somewhat relative, including one's individual cultural/religious/linguistic community.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

gozal I listed "welcoming and supportive to immigrants and refugees; diverse and culturally Inclusive"

Does that cover it for you?

As for being near extended family, that's not something you'd grade a city on. It's a choice you and your family have to make for yourselves. So while I agree it is very important for many families it's not something we can list.


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## sk8boarder15 (Jan 12, 2010)

We are moving from the chicago suburbs (McHenry) to Portland in TWO WEEKS. And feel like Portland wonderfully emboides so many things in this thread.


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## gozal (Nov 7, 2008)

You're right, Cynthia, that wouldn't help you actually choose the cities for the list! I guess I was thinking maybe you would include a criteria list to help people decide, as well as city recommendations. In that case I would put "relative factors" or something on the list, covering exactly those things you can't grade a city on (like your particular cultural group or family - I have lived in diverse areas in which I was still very lonely as a minority). Thanks for considering my ideas!


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

A little bit off topic, but I would love to see an international version of this question. Sometimes Americans forget there is a big wide world out there!


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## herbsmd (Jun 14, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gozal*
> 
> What about being near extended family as an aspect of natural family living? To me that is definitely an aspect of "natural," if in a different way. There are also cultural factors for those who are part of minority communities, like my bicultural, bilingual family. There are cities that otherwise match many of our criteria (theoretically, if we were able to move) but that wouldn't really work for us because we wouldn't have a supportive community to celebrate holidays with or to educate our kids in (e.g. uncommon minority language). So I think any list of criteria for natural family living would have to be somewhat relative, including one's individual cultural/religious/linguistic community.


Gozal and Cynthia...I originally posted up above. We moved to the city partly because we found a two-family house there. It had servants' quarters that we later converted to a third apartment. My parents own the building and live on the second floor. I live on the first floor with my husband and our three children. My sister, her husband, and their two children live in the converted third floor. It is a very old building and designed for multi-family living. It is much harder to find this kind of home or support this kind of living in many rural areas and I certainly think it CAN be part of the elements considered in living in the city.

When you move to the city one of the major compensations you have to make is the proximity you will have with your neighbors. It is a kind of living that happens in a very tight space. There is a lot of energy and emotion that happens on a daily basis...learning how to swing that emotion in your direction is part of being city-savvy. Most of the time, even when city areas aren't as diverse, they are still far more liberal with regards to lifestyles and choices--it's simply a part of being urban. There is much more tolerance where there are so many people!!!

For someone who is moving to the city to be closer to family or like-minded people....this is certainly a great way to live!!! Our house is three stories tall and we have a "three stories" blog if you would like to read more....

Three Stories

Maggie


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Thanks for sharing your life Maggie. Very nice. Where I live it is quite common for an extended family to live together and we hope to do something similar with our families.









mamarhu I agree completely! We will encourage people to recommend any city in the world. Thanks for the reminder!


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## sk8boarder15 (Jan 12, 2010)

If my in-laws didnt have 3 big dogs (we have 5 dogs) I would love to live with them!


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Here's our nominations thread. Please come post your cities!


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