# Calling all birth experts!!! (stillbirth prevention research)



## MidnightCafe (Oct 27, 2003)

I am a new childbirth educator (just finished my first class a few weeks ago), and the mother of a 2yr-old homebirthed DD. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in the area of birth, yet I know I still have plenty to learn.

In any case, I have left several of my flyers for birth classes in coffee shops, cafes, stores, and offices throughout the area to advertise my classes, and I received a call today from someone who picked up one of my flyers...

This woman runs an organization in my area to support people who have experienced stillbirth and to work toward stillbirth prevention. She invited me to attend a conference in April, and we spent some time talking about stillbirth prevention. She told me about a Dr. Jason Collins who has done some research, which suggests that stillbirth may be prevented through frequent fetal heart monitoring in the last month of pregnancy, fetal kick counts throughout pregnancy, and an awareness that hiccups may indicate cord compression issues. I've heard whisperings about this man's research in the past, but I have to be honest and say that I haven't looked into it very much. I am wondering if any of you have other information about these same issues.

Here's part of the reason I ask: While I believe that kick counts are valuable, and it is helpful for a woman to be aware of her baby's general activity level, I think that keeping charts of kick counts from 18 weeks on (as this woman suggested to me) may be stressful for the mother and a bit excessive. She also told me that cord compression issues are more likely to happen for someone who has already had a baby with cord compression issues (cord wrapped tightly, etc...). So, once you've had a baby with cord problems, you are more likely to have another. Does anybody here know of research about that? Lastly, she said that frequent hiccups are ALWAYS an indication that there is an issue with the baby's cord...either the baby is wrapped up in the cord or squeezing the cord in it's hand or something like that. While the stories she told are impressive, I'm wondering, again, if any of you know of research done by anyone else to support this. It seems alarmist to me, but I guess there's some possibility. I don't want to discount good information, but I don't want parents to be all worried & stressed out by every little hiccup or lull in activity, either.

I'm off to read this website (the one she referred me to):

http://www.preginst.com/pucp.html

Please let me know if you've heard of these things before, if you know of more info, and what you think about all of it in general.


----------



## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I'm not sure what to think. It sounds like they are pushing for high resolution ultrasound, then high management towards the end of pregnancy with any sort of cord entanglement.

I realize that many people would do whatever it takes to prevent a stillbirth, but I wonder what risks we're trading for the small risk of a cord entanglement sudden death?

I also feel like I don't agree with the high rate of hiccups=high risk for death.

I guess it just seems so over the top. I'd like to post this to my midwife's email list and get some feedback....


----------



## MidnightCafe (Oct 27, 2003)

Pamamidwife, please *do* post this & get some other feedback. My initial response is the same as yours. Here is the woman's website:

http://missinggrace.org/

She was telling me about how if someone had a previous stillbirth they could go to this doctor for an evaluation, and if he feels that they are high risk he sends them home with this $6,000 fetal heart monitor that enables him to get the baby's heart info every night for the last five weeks of pregnancy or so. Then he can tell them if they should go straight to the hospital to have a cesarean. Apparently he has a high success rate, but I'm just not sure how the success rate compares with less monitoring or with no monitoring...guess I'll have to go read the research.

The hiccups stuff really bothered me since my own DD had frequent hiccups while I was pg...she had them at the same time every morning...when DH's alarm went off for work. Something tells me it didn't have anything to do with cord compression, although he cord was behind her shoulders when she was born & she had both old & new meconium in her bag of waters (she was born in the caul...so we saw neither before her birth).

I just don't know what to think.


----------



## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Every baby I know has had lots of hiccups while in utero.

Even those What to Expect books say it is nothing to worry about.


----------



## watermamma (Dec 29, 2003)

I don't have any actual fact to add.....

however, it seems rather alarmist. My DS had lots and lots of hiccups, no cord issues.

DD had a little bit of hiccups (not much compared to DS) and had 2xnuchial chord and body wrapped up in it as well. She was born happily into her daddy's hands, no FHT problems throughout labor (intermitent doppler monitoring done by my midwives). We unfortunately knew about the nuchial cord in advance, as we had a Biophysical Profile done for post-dates (never again !). Passed with 10/10, but did walk away knowing she had cord issues. Not what I wanted to know, and it did not change me from birthing outside of a hospital.

Don't 20-30% of babes have a nuchial cord? And that hiccups thing sounds a little weird, isn't the hiccups a good sign (that the fetus is "breathing" amnio fluid and practice breathing?)?

Please let us know if you get any more info, you have got my curiosity!


----------



## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

My daughter was born still... I think that this doctor is full of it. His assertions reek of medical arrogance. I will come back and post more once Mike gets home to distract ds.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I am not a birth expert by any means.

BUT...

DD had severe hiccups in utero (and out). She had not cord issues.

DS did not. He was born with a cord wrapped around his neck, around his shoulders and around his chest (three wraps) & meconium.

I assume the good results are just luck, honestly.


----------



## plantmommy (Jun 7, 2004)

sounds alarmist/interventionist. my first ds had a cord around his neck, light mec and occasional hiccups. dd had light mec, cord on her shoulder and occasional hiccups. baby ds had hiccups 3-4 times daily for MONTHS, had no mec and no cord entanglements. He had the hiccups at the same times, too.


----------



## plantmommy (Jun 7, 2004)

this is bugging me, big time! I would have been worried if i'd heard this nonsense about the hiccups.


----------



## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

trash science. i find that entire site to be a tragic commentary on obstetrics.

did you see the "OB delivery kit" to send the "waste" to the incinerator?

i have two close friends whose babies were born still. both happened to be genetic problems. i think the whole hiccup thing is irresponsible.


----------



## NWmom2be (Oct 15, 2004)

I've just been a lurker but I registered so I could post on this thread ... I did not read the whole study but just wanted to point out that it was basically self-published on a website. The fact that it is not in a peer-reviewed scientific journal makes me doubt the findings.

I certainly _want_ to doubt them, as I am 7 mo. pregnant with a frequent hiccupper!


----------



## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

uke
that OB delivery kit stuff is horrible- did you see that poor woman all draped up in the lithotomy position, with the lovely delivery kit under her to easily dispose of her "waste"
OMG. uke uke uke uke


----------



## MidnightCafe (Oct 27, 2003)

Thank you! Thank you all for affirming the things I already know!









I didn't see all the other crud on the site when I posted it because I just ran over here & posted as fast as I could after I got off the phone with the woman from the Missing Grace organization. She invited me to a conference to listen to that Dr. speak (I might go anyway if I can arm myself with better info). She was so concerned that I pass this info on to couples in my classes. I think that would be nuts.

Again, thanks!


----------



## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

In my life before having dd, I coordinated the fetal & infant mortailty review program for our state capitol (which had an infant/fetal mortality rate double the state & national average). I can tell you I've NEVER heard any of these theories. Hiccups (sp?) are actually a sign that the babies lungs & diaphram (sp?) are devoping normally.







As for the monitors, yup, hooking up EVERY pregnant woman to a fetal monitor for the second half of her pregnancy would probably save a few babies from being born still. But, that's not realistic. The actual numbers of stillbirths are tiny in comparison to the number of live births, and financially, realistically, how do you hook every woman up? And who do you decide to hook up? I mean, there are a few risk factors, but MANY MANY stillbirths happen to perfectly healthy women with NO riskfactors or previous history.

I think it's a quack science. JMO, LOL


----------



## yequanamama (Aug 30, 2002)

There is no doubt that this fellow's theories, if applied, would stress out mothers-to-be WAY more than it would prevent stillbirth. It looks like yet another way to bring more women under the wing of the all-seeing, all-knowing, all-controlling OB-intervention chicken.







:


----------

