# help me with the TV thing



## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

my 3.5 year old son LOVES TV and computer games.

about a year ago his father and decided to allow him to be self regulating regarding TV... well, it works with food, but not with TV... he will get up and watch it until dinner time if i let him. used to be he would watch for a little while and then turn it off. not anymore.

i am not happy with turning it off for him, but don't know what else to do... have tried other activties, inviting him outside, cooking etc. he says "after i finish watching this."

the best thing is not turning it on at all, but the first thing out of his mouth when he wakes up is "i want to watch TV." even when we have activities first thing in the AM, when we come home he heads straight for the TV. when i finally just say "i'm turning this off now" he heads right for the computer and wants to play computer games. only mildly bettter as far as i'm concerned.

thoughts? i was thinking about allowing 2 hours a day intially and having him trade in 1/2 hour increments at a time and when they are gone they are gone, and then gradually shorten this. but it seems soooooo over-controling to me. ugh.

(i'd throw out the TV, but jeeze, his dad would flip out.)







:


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

I also have a kiddo who loves TV. For my own sanity, I let him watch. For my own sanity, I also turn the darn thing off at certain point and then I encourage him to get involved with another activity. I think that he does get bored after a fashion but just doesn't have the ability to move on to another activity. I feel your pain, I really do! Some days I just want to chuck the thing out the window as well.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

My solution to the TV problem:

Just say no.

Seriously, too much TV is not good for your child's health and well-being. There is plenty of research that lets us know this. You as a parent are responsible for your child's health and well-being. Therefore, the way I see it, you have a responsibility to set reasonable limits and enforce them.

I say decide for yourself how much is too much-- say an hour a day, or two, or only a half-hour, or whatever works for you. Then say "turn it off," and stick to it. Your child may throw a fit, protest loudly, etc. But if you stick to your guns, he will find some other way to spend his time that is more conducive to balanced development.

Same thing with the computer.

I understand the urge not to over-control, but there are times when we just have to set limits and stick to them.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

If humans were meant to raise themselves, it wouldn't take 21 years for our frontal lobes to be fully developed.

Human children need guidance.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

HBD, I could have written yor post!

Mine is with DVDs - 'cause we don't have TV per se...

But I'm really sick of it too! If I figue something out, I'll post to ya. And I'll be watching!


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## lechepatito (May 24, 2005)

I think self-regulation for bodily functions like going to the bathroom and eating are good things - but even with eating, for example, you as the parent still have a responsibility to provide healthy eating choices. It looks like your son is not ready to handle the responsibility of self-regulating his screen time (and I don't know any 3 year olds who are!), and since there are health consequences to his behavior, it seems to me that it's your responsibility to set some limits. Wean slowly if that's what you think will work, but I can tell you that when my DD has had too much tv time for one reason or another, going cold turkey is a must, otherwise we have a day full of whining and getting stuck in the "need" to watch tv. GL!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Yeah, I agree, it's too much to expect such a young child to be able to self-regulate themselves on TV. Pitting a 3.5 y.o. against teams of market-researched, well-educated, highly paid programmers just isn't a fair fight. It's designed to be addictive, same with the computer.

I've read that a child over three should not have more than a half hour of screen time a day. Maybe you can get him a stopwatch, and he can divide up his time between the TV and the computer, and in that way still self-regulate a little bit. And maybe at the same time you could get some really intriguing art supplies.


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

anyone have any suggestions on when tv may be introduced. i have kept dd off it so far but i would like to be proactive when she can watch it rather than jsut 'give up' at some point and try to make the best of it.


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## JeanneG (Jan 2, 2006)

Hi- I'm new to this board and am so glad to have found it. What a relief to have found other parents who have similar parenting styles.

As for TV, I have been struggling with my 5-year-old TV addict. We have just started a new program of "tokens". He starts the day with 3, can earn more for good behavior, helping out, etc and looses them for negative behavior (hitting, talking back, etc). He needs to cash in 2 for a 1/2 hour of TV or computer games, 1 for each extra book at bedtime, and 5 for an ice cream cone. So far it's working great!! We went to a friend's house for a playdate this morning where the TV was on when we arrived. he wouldn't go into the room cause he didn't want to cash in any tokens yet. He was also veeerrryy polite and well- behaved during the playdate so I rewarded him with praise and another token.

We've also talked alot about TV and how it has good things to offer- learning opportunities etc but that too much is bad for your brain. If I sit down and turn on the TV (a rare opportunity!) he will come up and ask me to turn it off because he doesn't want me to "rot my brain".

Anyway this token thing is working to reduce TV watching but also is a great reinforcer for good behavior.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rumi*
anyone have any suggestions on when tv may be introduced. i have kept dd off it so far but i would like to be proactive when she can watch it rather than jsut 'give up' at some point and try to make the best of it.

The AAP says no screen time before age three. I haven't abided by this, but I wish I had.


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

I also limit television for my dd. She gets to watch one show after her two sisters get on the bus in the morning. Then it goes off and she plays. After her nap, she watches for about 15 minutes before we go to pick up her sisters. Then, she may watch for another half hour after homework, with her sisters. She usually isn't interested at this time and prefers to play. I think she just doesn't like their shows. She likes noggin or PBS and they like Disney. Also, I will let her watch the "potty movie" once in a while, as I am desperate to get her trained. Total is maybe an hour a day because she's little and doesn't need to be baking her brain in front of the tv all day, but she definitely would if I let her.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

well, right now we have settled on no TV after lunch and computer only after dinner. (not that he eats meals at those time, but they seem times he is able to actually understand. he doesn't know what 15 min. or 1/2 hour is.)

he is not happy about me limiting him, but he's been very active doing all kinds of things today despite having had a headache this morning.

we have cooked, done laundry, listend to latin music and danced, listened to a storytelling CD, played with uncooked rice and scoops, played with playdough and right now he is chasing the cat with a clothespin.









i think i we'll keep it like this for a while and then reduce it some more before summer and when summer gets here, no TV. i did that with my stepdaughter and it was fine. we can start the day with yoga and hopefully that will distract him. BTW, he is JUST like his dad... hates eating breakfast and is a night owl and likes to wake up late. it amazes me how much alike they are. and they both adore TV. thank goodness i will not be sending him to school... what a nightmare it is getitng him out the door twice a week for his nursery "school" at 9:30.


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## cubbyandmel (Jan 6, 2006)

Well, we didn't actually trash it, but we did get rid of cable and we have chosen not to purchase an antenna. My 5 homeschooled kids missed it for about a week, but even then they didn't complain. Now they play legos, read books, invent, go outside even when it is 20 degrees, talk to me, talk to eachother, help eachother, sing, laugh - oh do they laugh at some of the goofiest things, they have learned to play chess (even my 5 year old), they put together very large puzzles, ask to go to the library all the time, my daughter got a paper route, they do experiments, constantly ask what they can do to earn some money, flip through encyclopedias, wonder and ask questions, my 10 year old is teaching my 7 year old to cook, walk the dog, play with our enormously large ragdoll cat, make up plays and perform for us, make up stories and do story telling, etc..... These are things I can remember them doing in just the last week or two, and many are things they would never have done had the TV been an option.
They are happy happy happy and good good good. My point is, if it were up to my kids they wouldn't have given up the TV. They would have sat infront of it constantly. But, I know better than them, being their mom. We cold turkied the TV right out and they are definetly happier, smarter, and better off in so many ways. Plus, my husband and I talk more! That is a HUGE plus for me!
Mel
homeschooling mom of 5
proud wife of a Navy OC
owner of www.cubbyskids.com


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Uh-hmm.....

if you want a dissenting opinion with experience and rationale, ask. Otherwise, I will keep my fingers under my seat.

Pat, gotta run, Dh only gave me two tokens for MDC today.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

We struggle with this, too, and I'm sorry to say my ds is only 24 mo. At a minimum, I use tv for shower time (for me) and infusion site change time (for his insulin pump) for Will. On a bad day he'll watch over an hour







I just get overwhelmed so often, even though my dh is really involved and helpful. Any suggestions for occupying a 2 yr old when mama needs a break? His attention span is about 2-3 minutes for anything except tv, and getting a half hour at a time, especially now that he seems to be giving up his naps, is necessary for my mental health.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

My son will be four in March. What we did it this:

He has an hour of screen time. He can choose the PC (he really likes the Reader Rabbit series or Sesamestreet.com) or the TV. If he chooses TV, he can watch Noggin, a DVD or a movie from the DVR. When we started this, we did screen time at 2 PM, every day. I put the time on the clock in dry erase marker so that he would know when it was coming. After he got used to that, I allowed him to have a little more leeway. Today he did about 15 minutes of March of the Penguins this morning, then decided to do the PC for another 30 minutes in the afternoon. He never used the other 15 minutes. Some days, he is screaming for more, but I try to stick to the 60 minutes rule.

If he has had several days in a row with no TV, which happens when we have alot planned, I am more flexible on the days that he does watch. So, if March of the Penguins is 80 minutes, I may let him watch the whole thing with the understanding that it is because he missed screen time the day before.

We also have talked about how TV makes your brain mushy. We are big on 'problem solving' here. We talk about how we cannot be good problem solvers with mushy brains.

HTH. We did a lot of TV when I was having bleeding during my pregnancy. It took a while to get weaned.

I would recommend reading The Minds of Boys and The Plug In Drug to really cement your resolve.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Uh-hmm.....

if you want a dissenting opinion with experience and rationale, ask. Otherwise, I will keep my fingers under my seat.

Pat, gotta run, Dh only gave me two tokens for MDC today.

















:

i'd like to hear what you have to say pat, since just out and out restricting my son's TV and computer time and treating him with a heavy hand is just not in the lexicon of our family.

his father is a TV nut and watches 3-5 netflix movies a weekend and i am on and off the puter all day. so our modeling is such that telling him NO when we do it would just not be right.

so, spill the beans, that is if you have enough tokens to do it...


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## KateSt. (Nov 25, 2003)

Now, mamas (said very gently), let's please not scare off a first-time poster and give her a harsh impression of MDC.
JeanneG -- welcome to MDC! It is a very friendly place and a fantastic resource. To give you some insider information, however, choosing the GD forum for a first post is like choosing to swim with sharks with an open wound (again said gently, mamas, you know I'm right.







).

Your token approach may seem quite feasible and effective to many mamas, but to many other mamas here in the GD forum this technique would be seen as manipulative and disrespectful to your son (this is not a judgement-- I'm sure you're a wonderful loving mama!) A very popular book and point of view shared here is "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn. He goes quite in-depth about how praise and rewards are really the same thing as punishment. It's a great book and a real eye-opener.









Anyway, I don't want you to be scared off. MDC is a wonderful place full of insightful and wise women. Please stick around...


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

tokens for children seems one of the most conditional and therefore disrespectful forms of parenting i have seen masqurading as GD on MDC.

the thought that my son has to "earn" the right to sit on his butt and watch an episode of max and ruby is so offensive to me...









do i have to earn the "right" to hang out on my computer for a while or anything else i find enjoyable but not too productive??? NO of course NOT, so why would my son?? talk about a double standard and treating a child as a second class citizen....

to me this is extrinsic motivation no better than time outs or spanking... what happens when your kid decides your rewards don't mean crap to him/her anymore?? then what will you use to control them?? no thanks, i would rather my son grow up knowing he doesn't have to earn anything in his own home and he has the same rights as his mom and dad and learn INTERNAL MOTIVATION, and be a bit wild and crazy in the meantime. learning internal motivation is a long process and requires lots of love and patience from the whole family.

token economies used to be the standard of care in homes for people will severe mental illness or developmental disabilities, or both. they are not anymore. in fact they are considered by the courts to be inhummane treatment. WHY? because the courts in NY ruled that these clients deserve to be treated with respect for their basic dignity as human beings. and token economies do not.








:

so there is my .02 cents about treating my child like he is a pigeon in a skinner box. YMMV.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Sorry, I can't post now. But Honeybee, please remind me if I forget on Monday to respond to this post.






























Let's be kind to the newbie.







We are trying to attract flies with honey aren't we?









Pat

Oops. Out of time......









ETA: tokens are merely a physical representation of any limited quantity of something controlled by another when autocratically granted or collected. Not much different than talleying on a paper 2 hours minus a half hour increment......


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm having some tv issues w/ my own 3yo. Towards the end of my pg w/ DS, I started letting DD watch a lot of tv (nogging, pbskids, and her DVDs) b/c I was so tired all the time. It hasn't changed all that much in the last 4 months b/c I've been trying to handle a newborn. I'm not happy about and and definitely not proud. I hate that she now knows all the characters from all the tv shows and has even picked up some undesirable attitudes from some of the shows (like Calliou *ugh*).

The last couple of weeks, I've taken a stand and have been limiting her tv considerably. I let her watch a couple of shows in the morning or afternoon. She doesn't protest much when I turn off the tv, but does ask fairly often throughout the day to watch her shows. Double *ugh*.

I like the idea of havinga set amt of screen time a day and letting DD decide how it's spent. I'm not sure how to make the idea make sense to her though. Maybe using a timer or coins to represent increments of time or some such.


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## KateSt. (Nov 25, 2003)

Andrea,







I can understand your impatience in general, but I think we should take into account that the token idea was proposed by a first-time-poster to MDC, therefore she's new to the GD forum.

Before I became pregnant I thought GD simply meant no spanking. I'm sure many mamas have also thought this before they did their reading and research.

I think this is really just an opportunity to bring a new poster into our circle of influence. (This is reminding me of the Abuse and Consequence thread. Empathy should include the parents, right?). Instead of being angry with a newbies suggestions, we might find that she's very receptive to new ideas herself.

Sorry this has gotten off topic. I do hope you find a solution. And I look forward to Pat's reply on Monday.







I have a feeling she'll asuage you of your guilt-feelings about tv. (maybe mine too, as I struggle with the same issues!)


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Your son sounds really young to be watching TV. LOL- not that mine weren't pros at it by that age too! Any way, we have TV's in the house. Yes, of course the kids like to watch em'. What helps to limit their time are a nimber of thing. First off, both are in school during the day. Next, we both are in karate three evenings a week. I teach in the evening once a week and they come with me then. Weekends are spent running errands and spending time DOING things. I guess what I am saying is make plans to do things other than watch TV that he would consider fun. It's winter here, but in the summer we are out and about breathing in air that doesn't sting the lungs. You're the mom. He's isn't always going to like your decisions but for now you have to lay down the boundries. He can have freedom in those perimeters. Balance out the TV viewing time with time spent being active.

And I have to comment on the tokens





















She's new! Not that I'm more than a step from new too. From what I believe (along with many others), we all start at the reward/punishment stage. WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME







Most of us work beyond that with careful guidiance. The token thing, while not ideal, is hopefully only the first step towards internal locus of control. So, she unintentionally "swam with sharks" on her first swim. Ignore the blood and practice some gd on newbie









~peace


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Not all gentle discipline mamas
are Alfie Kohn/TCS mamas.

I myself am more of a Dr. Sears mama.

I have no problem setting and enforcing limits. Even when my child doesn't particularly care for those limits. I don't yell, I don't spank, I don't bribe, and I don't nag and hound my child. But if I say No TV, I mean it, and stick to my guns.

And honestly, while I don't think the token idea is all that fabulous, I also don't see it as the root of all evil either.

I think there is a place for me here, too, isn't there? I'd love to hash it out with anyone who says there isn't.

So let's not all pounce on the new mama, eh?


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KateSt.*
Andrea,









thanks hun, i was really freaked out by the thread where the kids were needing to use tokens to have snacks, go out with mom or dad or pet the dog. it really upset me, and then poof! it shows up here, where i was trying to talk about TV and GD.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybeedreams*
FWIW, my partner LIKES to watch movies after working 60 hours a week as a network engineer. he also likes his writing group, his martial arts class and our drum circles. my point being that he CHOOSES these things and so it seems unfair to limit my son's TV when we choose to watch it, ya know like not saying no to cookies when mommy and daddy eat them. it's just basic respect thats all.

See, this is the double standard that makes the TV issue a non-issue for me.

I think most of us can agree that it is OK for adults to decompress, be entertained, veg out, be educated or humored or whatever with TV. The vast majority of people who watch TV still go to work, interact with their families, engage in other hobbies or activities. And those who don't, well, that's their choice. It's not the TV's fault, that's for sure. The advertising isn't compelling most people to run out and purchase stuff willy-nilly, either.

So why shouldn't kids be afforded the same choice and the same respect for their choice?

My kid likes TV. We watch together, we talk about the content, we talk about the ads, I explain cultural references and jokes that come up, etc. I have really come to enjoy SpongeBob! I wouldn't trade the joyfulness of our whole family singing the theme song or yelling out, "Tartar sauce!" for anything.

My son will ask, "Can we get that?" for every single commercial that he sees lately, and I just say, "Sure." Because we can...we could...if we wanted to. We don't end up buying a 10th of it, and not b/c I refuse. He got a $100 check for his bday in Dec. We were at the toy store and he picked out $70 in board and card games. He decided to save the rest. (He's 4.)

Some thoughts that have helped me re. TV:

If TV is the most interesting thing in a kid's life, that's what they will pick. Taking the TV away won't make their life any more interesting. It will just create resentment that what was most desireable was taken from them. Usually making it even more desireable--forbidden fruit and all that.

Sometimes kids go through phases where they watch a lot. Without pressure or fear that it will be taken away, and amid a rich environment, there must be something worthwhile that the kid is getting out of it--whether we see it or not. Usually a new chapter or milestone occurs and the phase runs it's course.

Finally, just because someone doesn't do something the way you would like them to does not mean that they aren't "self-regulating."









I say, let go of the limits and the fear. Get involved in your kid's interests and shows. Talk about what you watch together. Find out what parts of TV watching he enjoys the most (not in a grilling way, just see if you can discern that over time) and facilitate that.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

my digging found this article on an unschooling website. good food for thought:

http://sandradodd.com/t/economics

more thoughts:

http://sandradodd.com/tv

some of these ideas resonate for me.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

I like those links *HoneyBeeDreams*. I truly think that TV is one of those things that can be a healthy part of life. I know for me, it lets me relax, gives me something to discuss with family and friends. I enjoy it.

When I say that I limit TV for my son I mean it in the way that we have something else to do, so we have to turn off the TV. Or perhaps it's my turn to watch TV (we only have one). So we go off to play together, go to the park, play in his room, listen to music.... whatever. In the past I have tried to turn off the TV just for the sake of turning it off, and it doesn't work for us.

I DON'T think that TV "melts the brain." I have learned a lot from televison. My son has learned a lot from television. It is not his only learning experience, nor is it mine. I strive for a healthy mix of activities in our lives. I don't always succeed, but there you go.


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## Astoria (May 27, 2004)

Good luck working this out. It's always a difficult question to weigh.

We're working through this in our own way ourselves. We go through more tv and less tv periods. For a few months we unplug the tv during the week (we only have the one and we don't have cable) and plug it in Friday night for family movie night and then leave it on all day Saturday, then we unplug it Saturday night. So we do that for a while, then for a few months we leave the tv plugged in and don't restrict access. Kind of cycle back and forth, a few months one way a few months the other.

Usually during the tv "down time" I am surprised by how relaxed they are about it. I tell them the tv is having another one of its rests and they literally shrug and find something else to do, they don't ask for it. They enjoy it Friday night and Saturday and just accept that it isn't around other times. Then when we move into a more lax time when the tv is available more (this is usually provoked by a week of rain or illness) they start by rarely watching it and then their viewing begins to increase. When it gets to the point that its on a lot and they're not choosing other activities as much (because, truly, the tv is easier than imagination, an instant solution to boredom, and quite compelling) I decide that we're probably ready for another down time.

This works for us. We get lots of breaks from the tv, but there's not a sense of rigidity about it. Sometimes its a part of our lives, sometimes its not. Kind of like any other toy that cycles into and out of favor. It also works because my dh and I don't watch any tv at all, so the issue is just pbs and kids videos from the library. (Ok, ok, I admit it, we have been known to download an episode of the Office on my laptop when we feel like watching something -- but that's about the extent of that.)

We think about lengthening the less-tv periods in the future, shooting for longer than our usual month or two, because our children honestly are less restless and happier during those times and tend to create more elaborate play. But we're not pushing it faster than feels comfortable to us.

Astoria


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## oldcrunchymom (Jun 26, 2002)

I have never limited TV and my kids (ages 10 and almost 8) seem to be able to handle themselves fine. As with anything, they go through phases. Sometimes, they make sure to catch their daily dose of SpongeBob. Other times are different. For the past few months, they've been in a phase where they basically watch no TV at all unless I turn it on to watch something for myself. We have a big TV in the living room and a little one in my daughter's room, so they certainly have free access. I trust my kids to make decisions about how they want to entertain themselves, and that includes watching or not watching TV. It's worked for us so far.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

TV is freely acessible in my home.

My three dd's have acess to the FIVE tv's in our home and they are right this minute in the process of setting up a spa for each other. There will be nail polishing and flat ironing and lemon water sipping.

We have found that by not restricing TV at all, its often a last choice not a first one and is used when they are truly exhausted or in need of vegging out which is fine by me.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

I think watching too much TV is bad for the developing brain.

Read Endangered Minds by Jane Healy

I started letting my then 2 yr old son watch Sesame Street when I happened to pick up the book. I started reading it, bought it on the spot and it convinced me to turn it off. (BTW, Healy devotes a whole chapter to how bad Sesame Street is to the developing brain.







)

DH blew a gasket (he's Mr. TIVO, new technology...) and said no way.

So... our compromise is... it's a once in a while thing. Maybe a short or a movie one weekend a month (less would be ideal.)

Weaning him off it was NOT fun for easy. I know I would have ended up with an addict also, so I'm glad I did it when I did.

We do not allow computer games at all. DH learned that one the hard way. With his 15 yr old (son from first marriage) he bought him videos as a way to "bond" 6 years ago or so. Well, DH would fly to see him, and DSS would ignore his father the whole time, vegging out on the games.

Jane Healy says that you can introduce TV/computers as a learning tool at age 7/8 and that's reasonable to me.

When babies and young children watch TV, it affects developing hormones and neurotransmitters in the brain. That would explain the "calming effect." The question is, is it necessarily a "good thing" for brain development????

I attended a talk by educational researcher (and TV/computer use critic) Jane Healy a few weeks ago.

Quote:

Recognizing that the brain has different needs at different ages, parents need to carefully watch their children to see what interests them, and use this as a guide to enhance brain development.
Jane Healy also wrote Your Child's Growing Mind: Brain Development & Learning from Birth to Adolescence

Quote:

Highly creative adults love their work, are motivated from the inside, spend a lot of time alone, and still enjoy playing (with new ideas). This kind of success and contentment is hindered when "screen time" dominates a child's world, causing very little brain stimulation to occur.
In a Los Angeles Times article that was published May 24, 2004 entitled *"Losing Focus: Young TV watchers may be at risk for later attention problems"*







(a large study showed that young children had attention problems at age 7... can't find it right now... I'll keep looking). Anyway, I sent an e-mail to mommy friends. Here is part of that e-mail:

Quote:

If you click on the "Altered States" box, it reads: "Children's play patterns vary greatly when television is in the picture, says researcher Daniel Anderson, who watched kids focus intently on a toy when no distraction was present and move from toy to toy at twice the speed when the TV was on."

"When the TV is background noise, "their ability to sustain attention doesn't have an adequate chance to develop," Anderson says. That, he adds, may lead to problems of attention or other mental functioning as the child develops.

In Japan in 2001, another researcher looked inside older children's brains and drew a similar conclusion. Ryuta Kawashima of Tohoku University used brain-imaging techniques to compare the brain activity of children playing Nintendo games with that of children doing a mental mathematics exercise for a half-hour. The images showed that playing Nintendo games stimulated primarily the parts of players' brains that are involved in vision and movement. But subjects performing an exercise of mental arithmetic showed brain activity throughout the left and right hemispheres of the frontal lobe. In adults, these are the brain areas most involved in carrying out complex intellectual tasks, in learning and memory, and in judgment and impulse control.
More notes from Healy's talk:

Quote:

Timing is everything, and the brain learns best when the "input" is meaningful.

Quote:

Screen time (TV, computers, electronic games and toys) is denying children the opportunity to use their imagination and nurture their natural curiosity in the real world. They need time to "ponder" their world through all the sense, and experience lots of physical play, including time for spontaneous creativity and joy.
Honeybeedreams, if both of you (you and your DH) are glued to the screen (computer/TV) on weekends, then you need to start doing different things.

You sound like me and my DH. He's not "as bad" as your (watching 3 Netflix movies) but we both enjoy screen time.

But we do have "adventures." We go out. To the bookstore, Jamba Juice, a petshop (free), park, playground, on a hike, whatever. Even Chuckie Cheese (I hate that place, DH takes him there more than me. But at least it's not the freakin' TV.)

If he starts whining for the TV, you need to have a Plan B ready to go (field trip, play a game, something interactive, rather than letting him sit by himself. He is not used to it yet... being imaginative and playful.)


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

Quote:

http://sandradodd.com/t/economics
I checked out these links and found them unconvincing. I personally am undecided about TV and am looking at all the posts very eagerly (I am like that undecided voter). In general I feel that TV is addictive and therefore I do support the idea of a minimim age for introducing it, which I dont think dd has yet reached. She is 2.5 and someone here said that even a mainstram body like the AAP says minimum 3. I tend to want to hang on till at least age 5 as a minimum because I read a long time ago that it takes that long for eyes to develop and the experience of TV which invovles some senses and not others, can also affect our sensory development.

But this is a little like not introducing wheat till age 1 or peanuts till age 3 ... one could still be in for a lifetime of peanut butter sandwiches. What about TV after it is introduced - to limit or not? And how? First of all I think that it would not be fair if I watched it but did not allow dd to watch it so I have also stopped watching, just as I refrain from junk food and do not even eat it when she isnt looking etc.

I am aware that at one point restrictions do backfire and I thinkt he key with junk food or with TV is to minimise the sense of restriction by having plenty of other nourishing / fun / relaxing / interesting [food / activity]. This is very difficult of course but I think that it is worth it.

I remember reading here at MDC some advice that I have followed with great results - I asked, how to handle birthday parties and the like wrt junk food and the mama simply said, feed dd before hand. If she is full, she can only eat so much junk food and I find it works great.

I myself watched way too much TV in my prime growing years and I do regret all the wasted time. Of course I stopped watching it as school grew more demanding so it is not as if I was addicted. But I could have used the time so much better if my parents had the time and creativity to help me find such things. And if I had such activities (of course kids today probably have too many activities, at least that is what i keep hearing) then maybe it would not have mattered how many TVs there were in the house. It really depends and I dont think there is one answer for all when it comes to helping children learn responsible use of TV.


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## Susan Kunkel (Jul 13, 2005)

I think that if you do not want your dc to watch tv then engage them in something else. Take out the art supplles and start a craft, Ask them if they want to play a game with you.Go out for a walkwith them. We do no tv during the week and it works out great for us.I find if they are doing other fun things they do not miss tv
Susan


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rumi*
I checked out these links and found them unconvincing. I personally am undecided about TV and am looking at all the posts very eagerly (I am like that undecided voter).

I also read through them. There are some ideas in there that resonate with me, but they kind of miss the point of my reasons for restricting TV. I'm not doing it to help DD learn to be balanced in her TV choices, nor am I concerned about the addictiveness of TV. That's not it at all for me. At this point, it's more about keeping her away from influences that her young mind is not prepared to deal with, and protecting her neural development during her brain's most vulnerable period.

Honestly, someday looking back I'd like to be able to say that I stood for something when DD was growing up. One of the first things that people say when you mention no-TV is "oh, I could never live without TV." I want DD to know that she CAN live without TV, if she chooses to. Our life, for me, is a statement that there is another way to live. DD might someday chafe against my decisions, in the same way that I chafed against some of the restrictions my own mother imposed. But looking back I can say that nothing my mother did was without reason, or unfair, or done simply to be authoritarian. I respect her for taking a stand and choosing what she believed was right, even though I might not have liked it much when I was 7 or 8. I would like DD to be able to look back and say the same of me. I guess I'm less concerned than some that setting limits and enforcing them is somehow damaging to my child. I'm more concerned about the WORLD damaging my child than I am about ME damaging my child.

Of course, when she goes over my mom's house, where there is a TV, she very well might go on a binge and watch all day. I don't think that's a big deal. When I go over there I also often watch all day. It's a treat for me, rather than something that's part of the fabric of everyday. It's the everyday that concerns me.

If she gets to be 9 or 10 or 11 and says she wants to watch TV, then I'll help her figure out how to earn the money to pay for it, and then once we have it we'll negotiate limits. That's real learning, as far as I'm concerned-- learning how to work towards a goal and how to compromise. But while she's still so young, there's nothing TV can offer her and a whole lot that it can rob her of. TV brings into our home images of products we don't need, an unhealthy lifestyle of consumption that we can't afford, values about interpersonal relationships and impact on the natural world that we don't share.... It would only take time away from any number of activities that bring us together and connect us with the natural world.

I have to agree with reading Jane Healy's work-- those books really sum it up well.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rumi*
I checked out these links and found them unconvincing. ..... In general I feel that TV is addictive and therefore I do support the idea of a minimim age for introducing it....

So how do you explain the numerous kids who have never been restricted w/ regards to TV, and are not "addicted?" It seems to me, that limits might create the overwhelming desire to watch TV, as the kid never knows when he or she will get another opp.

No one in my house is restricted re. TV and we are far from addicted.

You say you watched a lot and regretted that, but you weren''t addicted, either.

Don't mean to pick on you, but as someone who's been around a lot of alcoholism and addiction, I think categorizing TV as addictive is mis-directed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
If she gets to be 9 or 10 or 11 and says she wants to watch TV, then I'll help her figure out how to earn the money to pay for it, and then once we have it we'll negotiate limits. That's real learning, as far as I'm concerned-- learning how to work towards a goal and how to compromise. But while she's still so young, there's nothing TV can offer her and a whole lot that it can rob her of. TV brings into our home images of products we don't need, an unhealthy lifestyle of consumption that we can't afford, values about interpersonal relationships and impact on the natural world that we don't share.... It would only take time away from any number of activities that bring us together and connect us with the natural world.

I understand where you're coming from, but I wonder how reasonable this passage would sound if one substituted "books" for "TV?"

Nothing can take you away from anything without your consent. TV just doesn't have that much power. Families can bond, brains can grow, imaginations can flourish, time can be spent outside, etc. with or without the presence of TV.

I'm dismayed at how "boogy man" one piece of media seems to be for some in this thread. We're all using the computer to be on MDC without all the evils many were predicting as certainties a few short years ago--radiation, eye damage, addiction, repeated exposure to porn and other unsavory elements, the demise of family time, etc.

I don't care if people don't like TV or books or radio or computer, but it seems unfair to take something away from kids based on their parents' tastes. And it seems to me, anyway, that the fears I've heard expressed about TV are causing needless worry and restrictions which aren't so great for trusting kids and building attachment.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:

I understand where you're coming from, but I wonder how reasonable this passage would sound if one substituted "books" for "TV?"
Books are different. Reading a book is an activity that uses more of your brain, and requires the active use of any number of cognitive skills AND imagination. TV does not. Read Jane Healy, and learn about the executive function of the cerebral cortex, and metacognition.

Quote:

Nothing can take you away from anything without your consent. TV just doesn't have that much power. Families can bond, brains can grow, imaginations can flourish, time can be spent outside, etc. with or without the presence of TV.
I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying that no TV has made it easier for MY family.

Please consider, however, that after sleeping and working/school, the thing that the average American spends the most amount of time on is TV. That is a powerful figure for me. How many more hours is my family spending on OTHER activities?

Quote:

I'm dismayed at how "boogy man" one piece of media seems to be for some in this thread. We're all using the computer to be on MDC without all the evils many were predicting as certainties a few short years ago--radiation, eye damage, addiction, repeated exposure to porn and other unsavory elements, the demise of family time, etc.
The key difference for me is that it's ME using the computer. Not my young child. When the TV is on, it's hard to keep my child from seeing it too. I sit at the computer, and my child plays, and is unaware of or uninterested in what's on the screen. If she became interested, I'd confine use of the computer to when she's asleep. I am an adult, and my brain is fully developed, and less vulnerable to the effects of a powerful medium. Read Jane Healy, and learn about neural plasticity.

Quote:

I don't care if people don't like TV or books or radio or computer, but it seems unfair to take something away from kids based on their parents' tastes. And it seems to me, anyway, that the fears I've heard expressed about TV are causing needless worry and restrictions which aren't so great for trusting kids and building attachment.
First, I don't believe that I'm taking anything away from my child. She has never had a TV, doesn't miss it, and that's like saying I'm taking something away by homeschooling-- maybe she would like school, but I believe she's better off without it. Maybe she would like Doritos, for that matter, but I think she's better off without them. I've read the research, and find it compelling. (I am trained in cognitive psychology, through half a master's degree, BTW.) Read Jane Healy.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

llyra, not to like ummm pick on you or anything, but your sig. quote does say... "no-TV freak" so i guess you come to this thread with pretty set ideas. which is fine, but i don't think there is much use in trying to convience you that some TV really is okay!

if my son lived in a home where there were tons of limits on his behavior, his eating, his dressing, his bouncing on the couch and singing at the top of his lungs at 3 AM







i might be more amiable to the idea of limits on TV. but our personal style of parenting is such that limiting like that would just not really fit it.

i admit, my son is pretty feral. unless it's life or death i pretty much let him do what he wants.

my comment about the APA is this... for parents who do very little with their children other then wait for them to get old enough to go to full day preschool at 3 or 4, i think the recommendation of no TV is a really good one. for my family it doesnt make much sense since we are "doing" stuff from the moment we wake until he passes out at night.

seriously i am very unimpressed by the APA.. they recommend that babies not sleep with their parents and have a pacifer to prevent SIDS rather than mamas breast, they recommend starting solids at a wishy washy 4-6 months, they recommend breastmilk til 6 months. (the WHO recommends until 2). they strongly recommend that all children be shot up with poisonous vaccines the moment they are born and worst of all they continue to take money from both formula and drug companies. they are less than valid in my opinion. they do not recognize my form of parenting and i don't think they have anything to say to me anyway.

if they recommended that formula be available only by script and really helped women with nursing, then there would such amazing improvment in babies/children's health, that they would never think of TV again.

my stepdaughter grew up in a family where the TV was ALWAYS on, and usually it was something inappopriate for children. it was even on at night while their mom slept.

after she came to live with us she NEVER watched TV. she never had time. she always had a huge list of things she was WAY more interested in. sometimes she and i watched muppet show reruns with each other, but that was it. with no limits at all, she wasn't addicted, she was totally uninterested!!

i think if you sit your kids in front of the TV all day, never know what they are watching and never watch with them, you should kill your TV. if you know what your child is watching, are in the same room with them or watch with them AND do plenty of other things each day with your kids, then i think TV can be a positive thing. i have always sworn that i learned more from PBS as a kid then i ever did from 13 years of school.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

I'm not one to regulate tv as i like to watch it from time to time.Dd watches dvds and noggin, pbs etc.We are often doing many other things too. Even when it's on (tv) she loves to play with her new kitchen,draw,listen to music etc. If I bring up less tv i think she'd want it more.I let it go and she finds other stuff to do. i guess I'm the same...tell me i can't do something and I'm sure to want to do it! We are big on treating others how you want to be treated.Therefore I wouldn't ask to put limits on the computer because i don't want someone to put limits on my computer time.Dd is very eager to please us and we are very eager to please her.We have a warm happy family and it works for us. that's just us, and i am learning everyday that many different approaches work for different families
edited to add that I'd love to hear scubamama's take as it seems like she has a great head on her shoulders...


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## guestmama9972 (Jun 5, 2003)

Here's what we did:

We went cold turkey as far as programmed television is concerned. We took off the rabbit ears and told the girls that we were going to do other things besides watch channel 8 from now on(PBS--that's all we allowed them to see). They are allowed to watch one video/DVD a day, and most of our movies are 30 minute ones.

We did this because we noticed that our daughters wanted to watch TV for the majority of the day. And I mean from waking until bedtime with requests to eat in front of the TV, which we never do. After the TV binges they'd be hyper, irritable, mouthy, etc. Without TV our home is more peaceful, we are all more centered and calm, and we don't have the jarring lights and noise from the boob tube. Except for thirty minutes every day.









At first there was whining and complaining from our oldest, but she quickly found other things to do, like playing outside, helping me around the house, doing art projects, etc. The little one showed no signs of withdrawl, thank goodness.

Frankly, TV has little to offer preschoolers that they can't learn doing other, more engaging activities. They can learn their colors and numbers from the loving adults in their lives as they go about their day. They can learn positive values from books that you read, songs you sing, and by watching you! By heavily limiting TV watching in our home I feel like we are raising creative, resourceful little people. Can you do this with the TV on? Sure. But not for my oldest. She needs the guidance of limits or else she'd watch TV every waking moment.

As far as letting preschoolers regulate their own TV watching--they are too little to battle against commercials for McDonalds and Lucky Charms on their own. You are the parent. Set healthy limits for the good of your child.

Let me step off the soapbox and say that there are harried days that I tell my kids to go pick a looong movie to watch and I wonder where the darn rabbit ears are, but I know that in the long run kids don't need TV to survive. Some is ok, but like all good things, moderation is the key. My advice: put the rabbit ears in the attic.


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## guestmama9972 (Jun 5, 2003)

BTW, I grew up in a home with no TV or VCR. Amazingly, I survived childhood! And I am an avid reader! And I have no feelings of depravation and resentment toward my parents from not being able to watch TV as a child. I applaud them for making the choice to get rid of the TV when my brothers and I were very young.


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

My ds is 16 mo and he "asks" to watch tv everyday (he points the remote at the tv)! And we haven't ever really watched tv in our house... my dh watches football games, and ds has watched a cartoon here and there... but recently there has been a marked increase in how much he notices the tv. I'm bouncing between absolutely not and just let him watch and he'll get bored with it. My niece and nephew (6 & 3) watch it all the time; while I watched them for 10 days we limited it to 1 video a day... adn there was a huge improvement in behavior... overall, I am planning to limit how much myds watches because I believe there are better things he and I can be doing.

The biggest reason I would limit or say no tv, is because of the content of the shows and the commercials. We have seen commercials for video games that simulate war! and that is horrible... not to mention all the other violence and mainstream version of morality. What they see is imprinted on their memory for a lifetime, and for now, I want to make sure what he sees correlates with how we plan to raise him. KWIM??

BTW... Several years ago things were different, and we watched a lot of sitcoms... and then it was like we were planning our life around which shows were on each night. Well I think that is totally pathetic of myself to do that... So we found that playing games was better... We are both so busy that being able to visit was great, and plotting to win is even better.

Of course, as with most parenting things, the whole idea behind parenting is that we are created to be the caretakers. We are created to teach and engage and love our children. If a child's needs are being met, then perhaps watching tv is just another option in their daily activities???


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybeedreams*
after she came to live with us she NEVER watched TV. she never had time. she always had a huge list of things she was WAY more interested in. sometimes she and i watched muppet show reruns with each other, but that was it. with no limits at all, she wasn't addicted, she was totally uninterested!!

i think if you sit your kids in front of the TV all day, never know what they are watching and never watch with them, you should kill your TV. if you know what your child is watching, are in the same room with them or watch with them AND do plenty of other things each day with your kids, then i think TV can be a positive thing. i have always sworn that i learned more from PBS as a kid then i ever did from 13 years of school.









Well, it looks like you've come full circle, then. I thought from your original post you were frustrated because you felt like your son was addicted to TV.

I can see what you're saying about the AAP. But they also have recommendations about carseats, choking hazards, and safe miniblinds that I gladly follow. And since the TV recommendation is based on research, I feel it carries some weight.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *honeybeedreams*
llyra, not to like ummm pick on you or anything, but your sig. quote does say... "no-TV freak" so i guess you come to this thread with pretty set ideas. which is fine, but i don't think there is much use in trying to convience you that some TV really is okay!


I put that there, tongue-in-cheek, in response to this thread. Actually.

Every few months one of these threads comes up on MDC, and I climb up on my soapbox again. It's my pet issue, the one I get all heated up about. Some people are lactivists, others get all worked up about vaxing. Me, it's TV. I've seen a lot of compelling research, and it amazes me that thoughtful parents, who give their children organic foods and protect them from toxins and keep them away from dysfunctional school environments, don't give the same researched attention to how much time their child spends watching TV.

So I feel compelled to speak up.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

For those who advocate not limiting TV, I'm curious...do your children watch any programming they wish on commercial/cable television? If so, do you have any concerns about their exposure to violence, exploitative sexuality, etc?

And if you do limit their TV to educational programming/DVDs, then what do you see as the difference in limiting the quality versus the quantity of TV time?

We haven't had to deal with this in our house as ds is too young. Dh and I choose not to watch television for many reasons mentioned above, though we do like to watch movies on DVD.

Quote:

Don't mean to pick on you, but as someone who's been around a lot of alcoholism and addiction, I think categorizing TV as addictive is mis-directed.
I have also been around a lot of alcoholism but I don't have a problem describing television (or sugar for that matter) as addictive. When children or adults show signs of withdrawal such as headaches, it suggests to me that there is an addictive aspect at work. Of course there are differences in degree and social impact.

Also, acknowledging the addictive aspect may be helpful because as this thread shows, different people respond in different ways. Just as some people may drink alcohol in moderation with no problems and others cannot, perhaps some people can easily moderate their television viewing while others have trouble doing so (children and adults).


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## Qalliope (Oct 22, 2004)

Umm, I did not read the whole thread







because it got into debates that kind of sidetracked from the original question which I think was looking for some creative solutions to help her DC choose something other than TV more often or something along those lines. Is that right?

Here's what I did. First I moved the TV out of the main play/living area. I would get rid of it altogether, but my dh is an addict too. Then I just figured out what ds likes to do most when we're at home and offer a selection of his favorite activities throughout the day. So if I'm busy with a household chore, he may come and ask me to put on a dvd, but he won't watch it because it's no fun being in the room by himself. If he is watching it I can offer something extraordinarily fun that he won't want to pass up. I let him know that we may not have time to watch a movie AND do activity x before lunch, or whatever. 95% of the time he will then get up and turn off the tv. DS is 2.5 and HE is making the choice. I just make it easier to make a healthy choice just like we do with food or anything else.

My $.02 is this. Do I have a responsibility to make sure that he doesn't rot his brain or become a fat, lazy couch potato by watching endless amounts of TV while feasting on junkfood? Yup. (Not a real likely scenario IMO, but a lot of people I've talked to seem to think that's an inherent part of letting a small child govern their own TV time.) But then don't I also, as a parent, have the responsibility to provide stimulating, interesting educational alternatives so that he learns that TV is not the Holy Grail of fun and enjoyment? I think so. I don't think just telling them no accomplishes that. Look at all the TV addict adults. I know my TV time was limited as a kid, but when I hit highschool and got a TV in my room, OH MAN, 8 hours a day I was in front of it. I even went to sleep with it on. I couldn't fall asleep without a TV in the background for years. I'm not criticizing anyone else's choices. I'm just trying to take a long view and figure out what would be most effective to really make for a person who's able to make those healthy choices all their lives. Like some of the pp's have said, children need our guidance.









Rachele

ETA: I went back and read some more of the thread and found a lot of suggestions similar to mine (Offer other activities) but I want to add that I found that just the usual stuff doesn't always get his attention. Sometimes you have to do something over the top so they know that hanging out with you, instead of the TV can be one heck of an adventure. We built several pillow/blanket forts last week - it took up 3 rooms of the house. We've also had indoor water gun fights and other random silly acts. Most of the time I can just offer brownie baking or a walk in the park, but if he still wants TV, I know it's time to really think outside the box.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alamama*
For those who advocate not limiting TV, I'm curious...do your children watch any programming they wish on commercial/cable television? If so, do you have any concerns about their exposure to violence, exploitative sexuality, etc?

And if you do limit their TV to educational programming/DVDs, then what do you see as the difference in limiting the quality versus the quantity of TV time?


What is the difference. Are you serious????

Would you ask if there is a difference between letting your child look at the book "Goodnight Moon" and "XXX Girls in Bondage"?

They are both books after all. Is there a difference? I think you are either not thinking this through properly or are just being provocative.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

QUOTE]What is the difference. Are you serious????[/QUOTE]

Oh, I am thinking this through and I'm not trying to be provocative







...let me clarify where I'm coming from a bit.

I've always assumed that I would limit my dc's TV exposure because I have enormous concerns about the programming -- the violence, exploitative sexuality, consumerism and other values that don't match what we try to live and want to teach. So yes, of course, I see the difference between Baby Einstein or Dora and programming that is intended for adults.

I asked the question because I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say "no limit" and what the the philosophy behind their approach is. Do they really mean absoloutely no limit or do they mean no limit on educational programming or what? My only exposure to people who try to live consenually or non-coercively with their children is on forums like this, I really don't know any IRL, at least not yet. Reading about it on this board has intrigued and challenged me to think in new ways. So for those who parent this way, I'm just trying to better understand where you are coming from.

From other discussions, it seems that it becomes very easy to justify setting limits on our children "for their own good." This has caused me to re-evaluate assumptions I've made about limitations I'll impose in other areas, like junk food.

It often seems to come down to perceived harm -- of course we all want to protect our children from harm, but we perceive the threats differently. Some of us perceive the potential harm of tv as more grave than others.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

*I asked the question because I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say "no limit" and what the the philosophy behind their approach is. Do they really mean absoloutely no limit or do they mean no limit on educational programming or what? My only exposure to people who try to live consenually or non-coercively with their children is on forums like this, I really don't know any IRL, at least not yet. Reading about it on this board has intrigued and challenged me to think in new ways. So for those who parent this way, I'm just trying to better understand where you are coming from.
From other discussions, it seems that it becomes very easy to justify setting limits on our children "for their own good." This has caused me to re-evaluate assumptions I've made about limitations I'll impose in other areas, like junk food.

It often seems to come down to perceived harm -- of course we all want to protect our children from harm, but we perceive the threats differently. Some of us perceive the potential harm of tv as more grave than others.[/QUOTE]*

I do not arbitrarily limit the amount of television my children watch. I do not limit them to "educational" TV either.

I do put certain content "off limits." This would include things that are inappropriately intense, scary, violent or sexual in nature for their ages.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

thank you rachele!!

i am right there with you...


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

i'm intrigued that this thread had also turned into a limits versus not limits. i find this really interesting.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm Baaaaaccccckkkkkk.









There are so many issues. Basically, we choose not to live our lives in fear. Riding in a car is a VERY DANGEROUS AND DEADLY proposition. Crossing a street is a LIFE THREATENING possibility. Drinking our city water scares the bejezzus out of me. But, watching TV isn't in the same league.....even if it rots brain cells.







We ride in the car, using our own personal judgement about what are the risks and benefits; we cross streets using evaluation of the risks and benefits and discussing the variables; and we use reverse osmosis to purify our drinking water.

Currently, we have no cable hook up to our house. But ds has unlimited access to videos and DVDs at the library and Blockbuster. We discuss the issues as they may impact him in ways that he doesn't desire and he watches lavishly and freely.







He is also very selective, using his own personal judgement about what is or isn't important and interesting to him. He loves the trailers, advertisements and bonus features. We have discussed the marketing of other shows and products and he has learned from trial and error that some of the information given by the producers is accurate and some is not accurate. He (and I) has also learned that _my opinion_ of what he probably will or won't like has been both accurate and inaccurate.









What he has most learned is to practice using his own best judgement based upon the *available* information and *available* resources. I am a useful resource, he solicits my opinion and uses my information while making wise decisions about many, many variables, not only his viewing options. What I have observed is that he *does not* like any show with angry voices, "meanness" or other confrontation. Nor does he like any sadness of the characters as "entertainment". He voluntarily and proactively chooses not to watch these types of shows. There have been several shows that I have selected believing them to be family shows. The trend seems to be that animated stories are less upsetting, even if there is a small bit of 'unhappiness'; but live action upsets are rejected immediately. And some I have suggested not bringing home (because it has scary or sad parts) and almost every time he defers. And when he has brought some of them home, he has not liked it and has chosen to turn it off and tell me he wants to take it back.

What I have observed is that he will choose to try to watch some 'unpleasant' show (by his standards-"Lion King") at some future date and will request that we watch with him 'because it is scary'. And he still feels no compulsion to watch beyond his comfort. And again we turn it off and he is empowered to say 'take it back to the library' again. We have done this several times with Lion King. We have discussed that he didn't like it the last time or the last two times and he sometimes chooses to check it out but not watch it or watch a little bit and sends it back again. Similarly with several of the Winnie the Pooh videos (oh, we have quite a personal 'library' of used children's videos too, approx. 80), he will ask dh or me to 'watch this video with him, it is scary'. Or in some he will run out of the room and come find us when it comes to the 'scary' part. And we go sit with him and talk about the show together, sometimes stopping the show, other times he just wants company for the scary shadows or scary voices or scary music parts.

I trust his judgement about what is or isn't uncomfortable *to him*. He has no limitation on the quantity or choice of viewing content. He watches for pleasure. There is no *need* to watch ALL of a show because there is some arbitrary limit on the quantity or content available (or educational value). I firmly believe that the power of choice is what creates an opportunity to develop one's own judgement.

Regarding the value of the shows selected, I have been awed at the depth and breadth of his learning. Because he can watch a show over and over and over, he gains more and more information. Information about social customs, personal interactions, how things work, geography, geology, reading applications (instructions, diagrams, charts, books, chalkboards, etc.), writing processes (signs, notes, letters, fax, etc.), mathematic utilization (measuring: money, length, distance, time, counting, etc.), construction, music production, dancing, singing, fantasy play, manners, engineering, transportation, machine functioning, conflict resolution, etc. These are only excerpts in his whole life, not the context of his life. He freely chooses not to watch tv due to many varied other interests and activities. But there is so much joy and springboard to exploring the world that tv offers that we are signing up for cable and TIVO *in order* to bring more of the world into our home. Despite the fact that I have no interest in much of tv (sitcoms, news) and dh only wants it for weather and sports.









New ideas and concepts are formulated either by observing something in context or by being initially introduced to them, but later having an additional context in real life in which to develop understanding. The exposure is neither more or less important in either environment. Those areas of exposure in which he has expressed interest are the areas that we seek to explore with additional media and medium. He is fascinated by construction. We had remodelling done on our home, he loves Bob the Builder, we drive around and observe at construction sites, he builds with Legos and tinker toys and Lincoln logs and card board boxes and sticks and paper and rubber bands and, and, and. Many of the ideas of *what* to build and many of the imaginary play of *who* is helping him to build are based upon the set and characters of his favorite shows. I just consider this process not unlike a theatre production. He learns about sets, character development, dialogue, scenes, and story. He has gained so much fascination and complexity from the development of story from the videos.

A major aspect of our son's return to home base is in his familar stories and character "friends". I don't consider this with any negative connotation. He will come back and share his outings, activities, adventures and new experiences with his 'Thomas' and 'Bob' friends. But concurrently, he will choose a show which has some *correllated* experience to that which he just had to *learn more* about the iterations and nuances and applications in another medium than real life. He is making the connections between what he has observed and putting it in context with the associations which he has previously experienced: whether from tv to real life *or* from real life to tv. It is all *information* acquisition! And our son loves to learn from all media and all environments. I believe this offers more *unlimited* learning than only that which is able to be experienced with the senses of seeing, touching, feeling, smelling and tasting with the body. The tv offers an indirect opportunity of experiencing with the mind!

So, if this is rotting his brain, it sure is bringing him joy in the process!







And we all choose activities according to the risks and benefits as we judge best. We drink wine, eat dairy (sometimes), meat, artificial colors (rarely), drive cars, scubadive, snow ski, mountain bike, fly in airplanes, etc. Life has risks. But sometimes you just choose joy over fear.

(So, I am certainlly not afraid that he will want to watch sex videos, violence and drug addicts on tv.







)

Pat


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## joy11 (Jul 31, 2005)

:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Llyra*
Not all gentle discipline mamas
are Alfie Kohn/TCS mamas.

I myself am more of a Dr. Sears mama.

I have no problem setting and enforcing limits. Even when my child doesn't particularly care for those limits. I don't yell, I don't spank, I don't bribe, and I don't nag and hound my child. But if I say No TV, I mean it, and stick to my guns.

And honestly, while I don't think the token idea is all that fabulous, I also don't see it as the root of all evil either.

I think there is a place for me here, too, isn't there? I'd love to hash it out with anyone who says there isn't.

So let's not all pounce on the new mama, eh?


I'm a new mama to this board, too, but I have to say...







:

I personally feel that tokens would be way less of an issue than letting your child develop ADHD or severelyh hamper their development b/c they watch TV from dawn to dusk....I agree with pp that children have to be guided by parents, otherwise you could just toss them out the door with a few hundred dollars and a backpack and let them figure out how to live their life!


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks, Pat, for your post. This is what I've been curious about -- what decisions others have made, what the rationale behind the decision is, what it looks like in practice. I'm one of those who overanalyzes everything







, and understanding the rationale/philosophy behind different parenting approaches is really important to me...especially when they challenge my assumptions.

I'm struck by the difference between what you've described and how many of us likely interpreted "self-regulating" in the OP. While I'm sure it didn't work like this in the OP's house, "self-regulating" sounds like leaving kids to their own devices to figure out on their own. In contrast, you describe being very involved/engaged -- but not controlling -- as you help your child _learn_ to self-regulate. What kinds of things do I like? What do I not like? How do I feel when I watch xyz? Perhaps the guidance is not so explicit, but through presence, conversation and modelling, you can help your child figure out those things for himself. I've heard you describe the same approach with nutrition -- helping your ds learn to listen to his body and provide what his body needs. I believe that listening to yourself and giving yourself what you need is a learned skill -- we all know adults who still have not figured out how to do this. This gives me food for thought about how we help our dc to learn this skill...

Anyway, I don't feel these discussions are about limits vs. no limits because there are so many permutations. It seems to look and work differently in each house because every familiy is different.

Thanks again for your post -- I always appreciate your challenging perspective and your respectful tone.


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