# I spanked my little boy



## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

I feel like absolute sh*t. I'm into Gentle Discipline - that's completely what I believe in. And I spanked my son.









I don't know how to handle him anymore. He's 3.5 years old. He has gone from being the calmest, sweetest and easiest kid to a sweet, crazy, wild little tantrum-thrower. From the moment he wakes up he destroys everything in his path. He throws EVERYTHING. He doesn't play "nice" with his toys. He throws them. He goes through drawers, cabinets, closets and tears things out and throws them. He grabs anything that can write and writes all over the walls, furniture, decorations, clothes...anything. He tears papers. He spills cat food all over the place. He throws dirty dishes everywhere. He throws food. He stuffs things into other things. He'll grab random items and stuff them into a drawer or into a bag. He's obsessed with stuffing things into other things. There is a cat bed that he just crams with all this stuff. My house looks like complete crap. We still have our tree up (plan was to keep it up until Little Christmas but we haven't been home to take it down and bring it to compost yet) and he throws things into it. He has destroyed so many things. I can't have anything nice because he will break it, rip it or draw on it.

I get so depressed looking at my house anymore. I can clean all I want but it will be detroyed again in less than two minutes. I don't even want to be in my own house anymore because it is so wrecked. It looks so....I can't hink of the word...but with all the crap all over the place, the food stains on the carpet (this is an apartment, btw and we will be charged for ALL damage when we move) - and there are A LOT of food stains - , the toys and their parts all over the place. There are clothes strewn everywhere because he goes through drawers and closets and takes out clothes and throws them all over the house. So much food gets wasted. We just wasted the last roll of toliet paper because he threw it in the toliet. And books...ohmigawd...books are everywhere. I have overdue library books because they are all scattered and I can't even find every single one.

I don't know how to deal with him anymore. He doesn't listen to anything. I know you're not supposed to say "no""stop""don't" and I have really tried to refrain from that language. But I don't know what else to do. No matter how I phrase things he still doesn't listen. I am at my wits end. I can't get anything done. Everything is a hassle. Getting him dressed to go out is one of the worst parts of my day. There is a lot of chasing, him screaming, him hitting and kicking and struggling. We can never just pick up and go.

Earlier, I had to use the bathroom. Just a little minute to myself. He had already been climbing the walls. When I came out, he had pulled out all the DVD's from the TV stand, scribbled in black marker all over - and I mean all over - my coffee table, threw a huge pillow into the tree, dumped cat food and ripped up some mail. That was in a minute. I spanked him. It was horrible. We both cried. And spanking doesn't work. He threw stuff a few minutes later.

I try activities to help him focus. I try coloring with him, doing crafts, playing games, singing songs, making food (I'm horrible in the kitchen so he doesn't get to help with a lot of cooking), reading stories. Some crafts with keep his attention for a little bit, but he just does the same old throwing and tearing stuff. We got him a nice little easel from IKEA that he was so proud of. He threw something very heavy at it and cracked the dry erase part. He won't draw at it. He'll throw things at it or rips up the paper from the roll.

We go out. I've been going out with him more which may or may not be a good idea as he can be a terror in stores. I can't take him to the library or local bookstore anymore because they have train tables and he throws the trains around, rips the tracks apart, steals from other kids and then has hold tantrums when I remove him. I've been taking him out more because I can't stand to be in the house with him anymore. I feel like I'm going to go mad. He loves to be outdoors and I try to get him out often. It's been hard lately because we've had a lot of wind and temps only in the mid-twenties. The wind keeps the chills down to nearly 0 degrees on some days. I'm not a sissy about having my kid outside in the winter, but it's been too damn cold for me, lately. He does go to gymnastics and swimming, which he loves. We also do storytime/music n dance at the library sometimes and he enjoys that.

He is obsessed with his penis. I know it's very normal for him to play with it and explore himself, but now I'm wondering if it's an issue. His hand is constantly in his pants. He loves to talk about his penis all.day.long. It can be cute at times, but it's getting very old, especially when we're in public. I talk to him every damn time we go somewhere and explain how touching and talking about his penis is not okay in the store, the library, the zoo, etc. I read that excessive attention to the genitals can mean the child's emotional needs aren't being met.

I know I must being doing something wrong. I have been trying to pinpoint if something changed that would change his behavior. But I can't think of anything. His diet hasn't changed. I feel like all I ever do is yell. I NEVER wanted to be that parent who yells all the time. I know too many people like that and I vowed to never be like them. He has a pretty set routine. We get up, have breakfast, play, take a bath/shower, go out somewhere, go have lunch with daddy, come home and nap, get up, play, have dinner, go out with daddy, bedtime. I work three days every other week and 2.5 days on the other weeks. He is home with daddy or with my mom when I work (just every other Saturday with her) and his routines with them are pretty standard. When we go out, I explain where we are going and if I know there may be issues (not sharing the train at the library), I tell him what I expect. It breaks my heart because he is a really sweet, loving kid. He's not "bad." He's not really violent towards us unless he is getting dressed or if he's having a tantrum at the store. He's not at all rough with the cats. He's just wild and destructive. I've tried taking away toys when he throws them but he just finds something else to throw. I have tried putting away a bunch of toys and just keeping a select few out...nope, no change. I don't want to ruin him, but I feel like i'm at my wits end and I don't know how to do anything else other than yell, scream and now hit.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

First off







BTDT with regards to the punishment. A few thoughts
first this

Quote:

I know you're not supposed to say "no""stop""don't"
Umm why? sorry but I've never ever understood this while there needs to be an understanding to how a little ones mind works such as the fact they can't always understand commands in the negitive so like don't touch the TV might be understood in there minds as touch TV ect .. However there is NOTHING wrong with saying No or stop or don't as long as those words are backed up appropiatly.

Okay sorry I'm kinda responding as I'm reading







reading the last paragrah I have to ask again has he been evulated and mostly has he been evulated for behavioral and bi polar issues. Honestly between the extreme destructive behavior and the "obsession" with his priviates to me say you might really want to consider getting him evulated. I do realize little boys can be courous and with out the first part I'd say its "normal" but with the aggression a red flag for me is being raised..

here is a list of some things to look for see how he fits it if at all..

Very Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
Separation anxiety
Rages & explosive temper tantrums (lasting up to several hours)
Marked irritability
Oppositional behavior
Frequent mood swings
Distractibility
Hyperactivity
Impulsivity
Restlessness/ fidgetiness
Silliness, goofiness, giddiness
Racing thoughts
Aggressive behavior
Grandiosity
Carbohydrate cravings
Risk-taking behaviors
Depressed mood
Lethargy
Low self-esteem
Difficulty getting up in the morning
Social anxiety
Oversensitivity to emotional or environmental triggers

Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder Bed-wetting (especially in boys)
Night terrors
Rapid or pressured speech
Obsessional behavior
Excessive daydreaming
Compulsive behavior
Motor & vocal tics
Learning disabilities
Poor short-term memory
Lack of organization
Fascination with gore or morbid topics
Hypersexuality
Manipulative behavior
Bossiness
Lying
Suicidal thoughts
Destruction of property
Paranoia
Hallucinations & delusions
Bed-wetting (especially in boys)
Night terrors
Rapid or pressured speech
Obsessional behavior
Excessive daydreaming
Compulsive behavior
Motor & vocal tics
Learning disabilities
Poor short-term memory
Lack of organization
Fascination with gore or morbid topics
Hypersexuality
Manipulative behavior
Bossiness
Lying
Suicidal thoughts
Destruction of property
Paranoia
Hallucinations & delusions

Less Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder Migraine headaches
Binging
Self-mutilating behaviors
Cruelty to animals

Not trying to be over the top or suggesting the worst for your child just giving some information. I grew up with a neighbor who had a bi polar child sweetest kid but his rages were horrible and scarry. He needed help and had a huge turn around when the proper help came.

Deanna


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## LVale (May 4, 2004)

Need more info on your discipline or redirecting methods. It is ok to say no or stop. I take care of my 20 mth. old grandson, and he is very energetic to say the least. I keep all writing pens up out of his reach, etc. But this is my house, and I keep an eagle eye on him at all times. I have floor to ceiling book shelves and he is not allowed to pull the books out or touch the crystal, etc. I redirect him, and he is never out of sight for a minute. I did the same thing with his older brother, and my two sons. I am saying, with all children they will only do things if you let them. I had one son that had every disorder under the sun, and our house was never destroyed. PM me if you want more advice.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

my dd is like this MOST DAYS, well in all honesty, everyday, unless she is sick. She is diagnosed with sensory integration disorder, but I have no clue if the "at home behaviour" is part of this diagnosis or not. All I can say is hang in there. We have to constantly change disipline routines.. my dd is very smart, and really has figured out for example, if she loses a toy for the day, she'll get it back eventually, so it's no big deal. The same with timeouts and time in's. She seems to care less if she gets positive or negitive attention. It's flustrating.

For now, I get help with her. When dh is home.. it's his turn lol.. I get at least an hour or more to unwind and recoop. My mom helps also.

Around Christmas, we tried to use the "you don't want mommy to call Santa do you" and her responce is "go ahead"

But like your son, she is the sweetest, kindest little girl I know.. she doesn't like to be like this.. but when she's in her "mood" it is hard to handle her.

Changing the environment helps..even going for a drive.. it helps until we get back home.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I'm not GD, and that doesn't mean I think I know the answers.

I do know that I found 3.5 (about 3.3 to 4.3) to be challenging in my son, in the typical "3.5" way. I have a friend with a little girl in whom I observed it more recently (she just turned 4). Absolutely noncompliant with a little smile that said, I don't care what you just told me.

In most kids it gets much better at some point during or near "4".

I think you need to figure out what you need to do to "ride it out" in terms of your sanity and family. Meanwhile be firm in what your needs are and speak very simply and repeat yourself. If he is doing something dangerous or destructive, use the minimum force necessary to stop it. Think ahead of time what you can live with in terms of changes to the apartment to prevent some of it.

If he gets hepped up on red 40, yellow 5, sodium benzoate, etc. figure that out ASAP.

I don't think you can diagnose mental disorders in these 3.5 year olds.

My daughter never had a terrible 3.5 so I know it doesn't happen to all of them.


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## babycarrier (Apr 2, 2004)

s
I found 3 1/2 really difficult. It took 3 more years for my oldest for me to discover dairy was a culprit and a good 6 months to sort out nightshades for my youngest.

I think behavior in kids can commonly be linked to food sensitivity. For my guys, I think their little bodies didn't feel good and it came out in rageful destructive moments.
Sorry you are going through this....


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## Katica (Jan 13, 2008)

I understand what you are going through- my son is also 3.5 years old.
I am no expert just taking it day by day. Some random suggestions that work (sometime) for us.

Definitely *no markers* in our house in reach.







Last time he found a marker he colored his tummy ( still hasn`t come off), and the dining table while I was nursing the baby.

We have a spare room for just toys and when I stay in there with him and we play he seems to be OK. It`s OK to through toys and play rough in that room. The other rooms are off limit (well, he doesn`t get that part though







)

He doesn`t have to help you cook. I usually set him in his chair and give him a tray with rice/beans/oatmeal -whatever in it. He loves making shapes with toys or pour rice into bottles. At least, during that time he is not roaming around. It`s pretty messy though, b/c all the rice ends up on the floor.
Well, gotta go, baby`s crying.
Hang in there


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## amber913 (Jun 4, 2006)

I think you need to make a couple of appointments. First would be to his doctor to discuss if nutrition could be a factor. Your doctor could then refer you to a program that would evaluate him and immediately set him up for treatment--and it's all free. I know people whose children received services through Early Intervention for behavioral problems, but EI is for birth--age 3. Beyond that, it's IU-13, and i'm only starting to deal with them regarding my speech-delayed dd, so i can't tell you much about them. But i'd hazard a guess that there are services and resources for your son, and your doctor would be the one to suggest who to call.

So i say, start with a good talk with your doctor about your options to help your son.


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## amber913 (Jun 4, 2006)

Oh, and regarding the spanking--apologize and move on. I was told by my developmental psych prof in college that "you will all spank your kids at one time or another, whether you ever intended to or not". I scoffed at it, though i'm well aware that many never do spank their kids. I admire their patience. I went into parenthood vowing NEVER to hit my kids. Ds has been spanked roughly 4 times--all when he was right around the age of your son, coincidentally. Each time, i apologized, analyzed what made me lose it and what i could do to avoid losing it in the future. Then i worked to forgive myself and move on.


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## plantmama (Jun 24, 2005)

Gosh, I admire people who have the restraint to have never spanked!
I have smacked both my boys when I've lost it







They are both fairly destructive, throw things and go through periods of being pretty aggressive. We have days where I feel like I'm yelling in all my interactions with them.
I went through a very tough period with my ds starting just around 2.5 and now seeming to wind down a bit (he's now 6). He has just been diagnosed with sensory processing problems and receives ot in school and hopefully soon outside as well. It has really helped!
Both of my boys need a firm touch and clear rules and discipline. Dh and I are bad at this but we are trying. I have really enjoyed "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline". It's gd but also empowering of the parent to take charge. I personally feel like some of my gd reading really screwed me up.

One thing I would do is to free your diet of all additives. There are other diet related things you can try because food chemicals build up in your body and then can manifest in behavior problems. We've had some great results with homeopathy too. Several remedies are great for destructive behavior.
And it never hurts to have your child evaluated. The people who do it are typically wonderful and it's just like playing some games.

I hope you find something that works! Parenting at this age can be very challenging. As always don't beat yourself up and give yourself a break whenever you get a chance.


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## midnightmommy (Apr 14, 2008)

I am of the thought that if your day to day life makes you want to cry that you need back up! I agree that you need to have him evaluated. It may just be his age or maybe it's something else...He honestly sounds like my brother at that age who was diagnosed with ADHD and with A LOT of interventions was helped enough that we stopped crying in frustration and embarrassment. Be gently on yourself!


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I will just chime in to comment on sugar and tv. Right around 3 a LOT of sugar crept into DD's diet. Now I am a big label reader and it is pretty amazing the amount of sugar in stuff--and how it affects some kids. For example, I read the book Little Sugar Addicts, and according to them, a Stonyfields Squeeze Yogurt or a Gogurt both have as much sugar in them as a Coke. Some of the juice boxes that I was buying were way over the top on sugar and it was really affecting her. Now I push water, buy plain yogurt and limit the gogurts (because she loves those things) and am just really careful with what she is eating and drinking. It has made a big difference--every day is not perfect but I feel like she is much more in control of her actions. She still has tantrums, but they're much less severe, much less violent, and much less frequent.

TV time also plays into listening issues here, so it's usually the first thing to go and I do think the weeks we are tv free are more peaceful in some ways.


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## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

BTDT


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## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I do know that I found 3.5 (about 3.3 to 4.3) to be challenging in my son, in the typical "3.5" way. I have a friend with a little girl in whom I observed it more recently (she just turned 4). Absolutely noncompliant with a little smile that said, I don't care what you just told me.

In most kids it gets much better at some point during or near "4".

I think you need to figure out what you need to do to "ride it out" in terms of your sanity and family. Meanwhile be firm in what your needs are and speak very simply and repeat yourself. If he is doing something dangerous or destructive, use the minimum force necessary to stop it. Think ahead of time what you can live with in terms of changes to the apartment to prevent some of it.

If he gets hepped up on red 40, yellow 5, sodium benzoate, etc. figure that out ASAP.

I don't think you can diagnose mental disorders in these 3.5 year olds.



I sooo agree with these comments. Ds4, was such a hard 3. Sooo hard! Ugh! It is getting better now that he is a little bit past 4. Does your ds go to preschool? I agree, keep your comments short, simple, firm. Keep your "zen suit" on, as another mama wrote in a post about the 3's. Just keep your voice neutral, kwim? I would put most toys away, esp. the ones that could do damage if thrown. Maybe get some foam blocks to keep around for building? Show him some things to do when mad, like hit a pillow, jump on floor, etc.

Also, about the penis touching. My ds did this CONSTANTLY until just about 4. I think it is completely normal, probably happened more when ds was nervous, or yes as a pp suggested, perhaps emotionally overwhelmed or not getting all his needs met. It's okay. Really. Yes my ds did it in public, etc, but I bet your ds will just get it one day and it won't be such an issue.

And yes to the sugar/dye-my ds would throw a huge tantrum which was so unlike him if he ate something with the red dye, even just a mint. I'll never forget when he threw himself on the ground at the farmers market after eating a mint, I was mortified. Also, I am guaranteed at least one tantrum if ds watches even a half hour of clifford, so we are mostly tv free. It's only on if my dh chooses to use it.

I feel for you, good luck mama!!!! Mary


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## Swandira (Jun 26, 2005)

*hugs*

In my experience, 3.5-year-olds are holy terrors. They're just awful, and I say this even though I know that I have very gentle, sensitive children compared to the average. They're defiant little limit-testers.

I think the only thing you can do to make it better is to set limits that you can live with and stick to them. In my (admittedly limited, since I only have three kids) experience, it's better to not set a limit at all if you don't think you can enforce it. 3.5-year-olds are looking for boundaries and they will keep right on bashing against the limits they find until they feel they can trust them. Limits make them feel comfortable, even though they rage against them at the time -- if your parents have these limits for you, they seem to reason, they maintain boundaries that protect you against the scary things that are in the world.

I don't agree that you "shouldn't" say "no/stop/don't." I think it's perfectly fine to say those things as long as you also tell them what they may or should do instead. They can't thrive in a whole world of "no," but neither can you safely pretend that the world is made entirely of "yes," because reality will show them otherwise, and then your child will be unable to trust you. I also think it's fine for a child to experience the consequences of his/her behavior, when it's reasonable to allow that. If he throws a toy, you might try putting that toy away for a day or three. If that means he has three toys left at the end of the day, that's OK. It's a lot of work for us to maintain boundaries and show kids what we expect of them, but it will pay off long term in their ability to get along in the world. I think that as long as you have reasonable expectations for their developmental stage, it's a good idea to start helping a 3.5-year-old understand limits and boundaries, because an older child who hasn't learned them will be much harder to deal with, both for you and everyone else, and that child may not be able to enjoy the company of others as much as he wants.

As to the spanking, I'm so sorry that happened to both of you! I've been where you are -- I have a quick temper and I've lost control and spanked before. It's a horrible feeling, but if you just apologize to your child (as I'm sure you already did) you're modeling good behavior. 3-year-olds can be so trying! It can get better, though. It certainly did with my firstborn, and it's starting to improve with my middle kid, who's nearly 4.

I wish I had some kind of a quick fix for you, but I'm afraid it's just a lot of hard work.







Anyway, if my experience helps you, great! If not, let us know what does help, if anything. I'm sure you won't be the last one to have this problem, so feel free to share.

Nealy
mama to Thales, 12/02; Lydia, 2/06; and Odin, 12/12/08


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

:BTDT! I have spanked both my kids in the past, but I realized where I was heading quick and swore I'd never spank again, and I'm doing better now! Now when I feel myself getting really heated with the kids I send everyone, including myself for a mandatory cool-down, that really helps! Also, sitting down and honestly letting my child know how I'm feeling has helped too.

In my experience 3 is a very hard age, the odd years are hardest for some reason. I definitely agree with setting boundaries/limits, things will get much easier once you do trust me.

As far as being a destructive lil guy I've taught both my kids how to clean up after themselves, and when they make a mess I let them know that I expect them to clean it up. I will offer minimal help if needed, but mainly I point them in the direction of the trash/toy bin/cleaning rag/childs broom.... and they do it. I also insist on cleaning up one activity before moving onto another, helps keep things looking cleaner.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Okay, more outdoor time.

I know its very gray and not warm in Pa right now, but I think your son needs an hour or more of outdoor run around time each and every day. Hire a teenager to help you and have hubby do this on weekends.

Set up a playroom for his mess. Explain you like to keep the rest of the house "nice enough for friends". Gentle reminders and places to put things away help a lot.

I echo the getting checked for allergies thing.

Don't worry about losing it... just try not to lose it often. Most kids don't have a lot of permanent memories before they are 5 or 6... so cut yourself some slack here.


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## stlmomof2 (Mar 30, 2006)

I feel like we might be heading in that direction. I have a 2 year old boy who is really a handful, though not quite industrious enough yet to completely destroy our house during a bathroom break. But in any case, you should look into getting a membership at a place like this. Almost all there is to do is bounce, climb, crawl. Not much to fight over or destroy. Also, I'd check into a hotel with him while your partner takes almost everything out of your apartment and puts it in a storage space (and maybe finds a way to lock up the remaining stuff). Then you could devote the extra space to unbreakable motor skills oriented toys. I'll bet he's great fun outside in the summertime but I know it's got to be really cold up there in the winter. He sounds like some 2-4 year old boys I've known. The behavior is annoying but there really can't be that many kids with diagnosable disorders. Even a little of that kind of behavior drives ME crazy, though, which is why I'd purge the house of any unnecessary items. I'd store some items with mess potential (markers, legos, etc.) in my car or another place that is completely unaccessible and then go get them at a time when I could carefully supervise.


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## MrsMike (Aug 4, 2006)

Sorry I haven't replied. I have been using my phone for internet the last few days and it's awful for long messages.
I want to sincerely thank all of you for your thoughtful replies, encouragement and BTDT advice. I really love the support on these boards.









Ds does have an appointment with the family doctor in a month. I will talk to him about behavioral issues and possible evaluations then.

I am so freakin' stupid. I realized 2 days ago that in the last few months I have been on an M&M kick and I let Ds have 1 or 2 whenever I have a bag. I know it may not seem like a lot, but it's got sugar, coloring and other artificial crap in it. I need to really assess our food. This past summer, I switched to the Stonyfield baby yogurt instead of our usual stand-by of plain yogurt with granola or fruit added in. So, we will be switching back to the plain yogurt. It's cheaper and local anyway (just hard to get). The rest of our food is pretty natural and additive-free. I told dh we need to keep an eye on what we are feeding him and how he reacts.

I also told DH that it's time for a major "stuff" purge. We'll be getting rid of clothes, toys, books, videos and other stuff that we don't need. Hopefully a clearer space will calm him down. If all goes according to plan, we will be able to use our spare bedroom as his little toy room, which I know is something he would be proud of. I also had a big talk with dh about how I just plain need a lot more help with either cleaning up or taking David outside while I clean. Dh is incredibly supportive, but sometimes I need to light a fire under his butt to have him help me straighten up.

We also implemented taking away whatever he throws, and it has seemed to work so far. I had taken away the easel I mentioned in my OP. Today he told me he was sorry he broke it and would never do it again. Aww.

I also agree about the outdoor time and think that is a big factor, too. Thankfully, we are in for a little bit of a warm up in the coming week so his little butt will be outside a lot more. We're also going to start doing yoga in the morning - something that will be good for the both of us.

It's funny, the day after I wrote this he was a whole different kid - back to his old self. It's like he read this.







The past weekend and yesterday he has been very zen, easy-going and less destructive. That may just be a fluke.









Thank you, again, for all the responses.







I'm a lot more optimistic that things will work out and that if there *is* and issue (food sensitivity, ADHD, etc.) that we will be able to figure it out and work through it.


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## laila2 (Jul 21, 2007)

I have been there if you look up my post you will see

In one thead I was desperate and went to therapy after my son gave 3 tantrums in one day. The therapist suggested the book 123 magic. I got an old copy at my library and it has some great pointers, like not using logic with kids, because they are crazy, and it will never work. And lots of other stuff. Easy to read


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

i wanted to second octobermoms post about ped bpd. in fact, as i read through the OP, i was thinking exactly that. i'll temper that by saying try all the food changes, add lots of outdoor time, create a "yes" environment in your home and if you dont see any significant changes in a reasonable amount of time, maybe consider the possibility of a "label-able" (my word heehee) disorder.

(((HUGS))) btdt, its not easy by any means.


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## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Very happy to read your update! Isn't that how it works? You write one long frustrated post and next thing they've calmed down. I feel like that quite a bit!







Glad to hear you've got a plan and feel optimistic. Mary


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