# Specifics Of GD



## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

How do you discipline if you do not use time outs? How do you take care of a screaming out of control child? How do you take care of a child that will not listen to you no matter how many times you have asked them to do something or stop doing something? I mean everyone says well give real life consequences but what are they? Maybe I am dumb but I just don't get it.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
How do you discipline if you do not use time outs? How do you take care of a screaming out of control child? How do you take care of a child that will not listen to you no matter how many times you have asked them to do something or stop doing something? I mean everyone says well give real life consequences but what are they? Maybe I am dumb but I just don't get it.

It's a shift of thought. I never use time outs but I discipline...by discipline I mean teach...I don't think timeouts teach anything so I don't use them. As to listening to me, well I don't expect anyone to do as I ask 100% of the time..child or adult...so I help them do it. I might say something like "I will pick up your garbage this time and toss it out but I think you should be doing that, it's your responsibility" and then I do it and eventually they start to do things when I ask them. I never ever tell them. to do it. My dd who turned three in July just said the other day that she would do something because "it's my responsibility"









Real life consequences..I don't dwell too much on real life myself...I just focus on teaching my child ethics, kindness, respect for others and so on...I try to do it without shaming and belittling them.

And the big thing is modelling for them...I am trying really hard to model want I want them to be. That's the hardest part..I am human and have to fix myself so my kids see a healthy role model.

I am just gentler and more loving and understanding than I used to be and I spend a lot of time focussing on "age appropriateness" building relationships with them than controlling their behaviour.

and some people might think I have some wild out-of-control kids in that I encourage them to ask questions and such but I see that as necessary. but I see them as spirited, intelligent and amazing little people who just need me to keep them safe and guide them along through life.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
How do you discipline if you do not use time outs? How do you take care of a screaming out of control child? How do you take care of a child that will not listen to you no matter how many times you have asked them to do something or stop doing something? I mean everyone says well give real life consequences but what are they? Maybe I am dumb but I just don't get it.

Well there are a variety of approaches for these things. Sometimes it just depends on the child, their age and development, the situation, the environment you are in, etc.

*Move away from the immediate area to help the child center a bit
*Get down to eye level, make eye contact, lower your voice
*Sympathize with their emotion
*If it's a young child or a child struggling with finding words to express themselves you can help them state what they are feeling.
*State why you think something is not okay, and look for alternatives together.


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

Thank you so much for starting this thread! I'm fairly new to GD too, and I'm reading a lot of books, and trying, but sometimes its nice to hear how real-life moms handle these things. I'm never sure if what I'm doing is right- too forceful, too lenient, etc. And I know that other moms look at me now & think that my kids are wild, too- I have 2 spirited, energetic boys! So its nice to know that I'm not the only one who gets the "do something about your kids" look!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I'm on the more authoritative GD, and don't always feel the need to be consensual, so here's my 2 cents:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
How do you take care of a screaming out of control child?

If we're at home, I sit nearby and tell him I understand he's mad, maybe repeat briefly whatever limit I set and why, and say we can talk about whatever it is when he's feeling better if he wants...I will not allow him to hurt me or destroy things, so I just give him a space to let it all hang out and then we "talk" later...he's 2-1/2, so the "talks" aren't very detailed at this point. If we're out, I try to go to an out of the way place so we don't disrupt other people trying to enjoy themselves, and I do the same as above. My child is not one that wants to be comforted when he's upset, so I don't try to hug him or talk him through it or anything, that just makes it worse for him. I just hang out nearby and let him know I'm there when he's ready. I do not tell him he's not allowed to be mad, or to stop it - it's really his only outlet for frustration at this point, because although he can talk, he isn't really at a conversational level yet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
How do you take care of a child that will not listen to you no matter how many times you have asked them to do something or stop doing something?

After I ask him once or twice, I get off my butt and do whatever it is _with_ him, or I redirect him away from what I want him to stop. Not fun, exhausting for me (especially with an infant in tow), but effective. No asking 10 times and getting more mad each time until I snap. Ask once, twice, then calmly and happily help him do (or not do) whatever it is while repeating the request so the association is there.

Hope that helps!


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
I'm on the more authoritative GD, and don't always feel the need to be consensual, so here's my 2 cents:

If we're at home, I sit nearby and tell him I understand he's mad, maybe repeat briefly whatever limit I set and why, and say we can talk about whatever it is when he's feeling better if he wants...I will not allow him to hurt me or destroy things, so I just give him a space to let it all hang out and then we "talk" later...he's 2-1/2, so the "talks" aren't very detailed at this point. If we're out, I try to go to an out of the way place so we don't disrupt other people trying to enjoy themselves, and I do the same as above. My child is not one that wants to be comforted when he's upset, so I don't try to hug him or talk him through it or anything, that just makes it worse for him. I just hang out nearby and let him know I'm there when he's ready. I do not tell him he's not allowed to be mad, or to stop it - it's really his only outlet for frustration at this point, because although he can talk, he isn't really at a conversational level yet.

After I ask him once or twice, I get off my butt and do whatever it is _with_ him, or I redirect him away from what I want him to stop. Not fun, exhausting for me (especially with an infant in tow), but effective. No asking 10 times and getting more mad each time until I snap. Ask once, twice, then calmly and happily help him do (or not do) whatever it is while repeating the request so the association is there.

Hope that helps!

That really did help ty.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
Well there are a variety of approaches for these things. Sometimes it just depends on the child, their age and development, the situation, the environment you are in, etc.

*Move away from the immediate area to help the child center a bit
*Get down to eye level, make eye contact, lower your voice
*Sympathize with their emotion
*If it's a young child or a child struggling with finding words to express themselves you can help them state what they are feeling.
*State why you think something is not okay, and look for alternatives together.


ok this really helped too.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Good thread!


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

ok now how do you handel grandparents? They feel you need to spank or put the nose in the corner. It is their home, they live right behind us and my kids are VERY attatched to them. I am at a loss because I understand what yall are saying but it seems like it is just letting them do whatever it is you do not find acceptable and talk to them and hope that that changes their mind and if not there are no consequences. And when you are out in public that is a big thing. People looking at you like your child is the worst child in the world and like you are a horriable parent who does not teach your child how to act. I HATE THAT! I am trying so hard here I really am, I guess I get discouraged.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
It's a shift of thought. I never use time outs but I discipline...by discipline I mean teach...I don't think timeouts teach anything so I don't use them. As to listening to me, well I don't expect anyone to do as I ask 100% of the time..child or adult...so I help them do it. I might say something like "I will pick up your garbage this time and toss it out but I think you should be doing that, it's your responsibility" and then I do it and eventually they start to do things when I ask them. I never ever tell them. to do it. My dd who turned three in July just said the other day that she would do something because "it's my responsibility"









Real life consequences..I don't dwell too much on real life myself...I just focus on teaching my child ethics, kindness, respect for others and so on...I try to do it without shaming and belittling them.

And the big thing is modelling for them...I am trying really hard to model want I want them to be. That's the hardest part..I am human and have to fix myself so my kids see a healthy role model.

I am just gentler and more loving and understanding than I used to be and I spend a lot of time focussing on "age appropriateness" building relationships with them than controlling their behaviour.

and some people might think I have some wild out-of-control kids in that I encourage them to ask questions and such but I see that as necessary. but I see them as spirited, intelligent and amazing little people who just need me to keep them safe and guide them along through life.

See some of this seems way to permissive for me. I guess I am having a hard time shifting my thought process.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

See I feel kids should do what their parents ask. It is for their safety and to teach them how to behave with others. I dont' see anything wrong with expecting them to obey. Now adults well their adults and should have been taught when they were a child how to behave so I should have to tell them what to do LOL.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
See I feel kids should do what their parents ask. It is for their safety and to teach them how to behave with others. I dont' see anything wrong with expecting them to obey. Now adults well their adults and should have been taught when they were a child how to behave so I should have to tell them what to do LOL.

Why? I mean, what is your goal for your children? To just blindly obey anyone in authority?

GD starts from the premise that children are people in their own right, not just pieces of clay to be molded into their parents' image. Expecting only obedience as a goal isn't going to result in a child who's a critical thinker or an empathatic human being, IMO.

You might want to check out these resources:
Alternatives to Punishment
Anti-Spanking Resources
Gentle Discipline Guidelins

And welcome to MDC!


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
Why? I mean, what is your goal for your children? To just blindly obey anyone in authority?

GD starts from the premise that children are people in their own right, not just pieces of clay to be molded into their parents' image. Expecting only obedience as a goal isn't going to result in a child who's a critical thinker or an empathatic human being, IMO.

You might want to check out these resources:
Alternatives to Punishment
Anti-Spanking Resources
Gentle Discipline Guidelins

And welcome to MDC!


Ok the why is because you are an adult and your brain is fully developed to be able to understand danger and consequences. It is not like they should obey you for no reason. There are reasons you are asking them to do what you want are need them to do. Ty for the links.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
Ok the why is because you are an adult and your brain is fully developed to be able to understand danger and consequences. It is not like they should obey you for no reason. There are reasons you are asking them to do what you want are need them to do. Ty for the links.

But someday they will be adults too. Adults don't just rise fully-formed out of a child's body; children grow into it. By allowing your child to be part of the process rather than having the process be something imposed upon them, you are helping them grow into a caring, thoughtful adult rather than someone who just does exactly what they're told without thought. That's not to say that you don't have the final say, nor is it to say that you don't step in if they're about to do something truly dangerous. But you don't have to create a system where they're just expected to obey. In their mind, they are obeying "for no reason".


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
But someday they will be adults too. Adults don't just rise fully-formed out of a child's body; children grow into it. By allowing your child to be part of the process rather than having the process be something imposed upon them, you are helping them grow into a caring, thoughtful adult rather than someone who just does exactly what they're told without thought. That's not to say that you don't have the final say, nor is it to say that you don't step in if they're about to do something truly dangerous. But you don't have to create a system where they're just expected to obey. In their mind, they are obeying "for no reason".


Ok now that seems more reasonable. At first I thought you meant just be permissive and let them do whatever they want no matter what. But see I give them reasons they should obey I don't just say do it because I told you so.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

IAMINSANE

I recommend you meditate on this aspect of the forum guidelines

Quote:

Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing.
What I'm hearing from you are some fears. Fear of what others will think. Fear of what grandparents will say or do if you change discipline tactics. Perhaps fear of how your children will behave if you do change.

It helps to become aware of how these fears shape our own behavior.

I think the fears will abate when you are confident that your parenting is meeting the needs of your family~no matter what others think or say. When you feel that in your heart that your approach is making your family happier and healthier, it will provide immunity to the opinions of others.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
IAMINSANE

I recommend you meditate on this aspect of the forum guidelines

What I'm hearing from you are some fears. Fear of what others will think. Fear of what grandparents will say or do if you change discipline tactics. Perhaps fear of how your children will behave if you do change.

It helps to become aware of how these fears shape our own behavior.

I think the fears will abate when you are confident that your parenting is meeting the needs of your family~no matter what others think or say. When you feel that in your heart that your approach is making your family happier and healthier, it will provide immunity to the opinions of others.


That is very true I just do not know how to handel the situation. You know what I need? I need someone to come and give me hands on help. Really and truly I feel that is what I need.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

So you want a GD coach-for-hire?







That's a great idea!

To start with just examine your reasons for coming to this board at all. Something is bothering you about your current approach. Otherwise, why explore options?

If you can identify your motivation for being here, it will serve as a great reminder as you make changes in your parenting.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
See some of this seems way to permissive for me. I guess I am having a hard time shifting my thought process.

Yep it might sound that way but actually truth is I am on them like a wet blanket all the time..I am constantly teaching, modelling, talking, showing...on and on and on...to me permissive would be "oh do whatever you want" but I definitly don't do that. I am willing to bet I spend much more time on disciplining my children than many of the moms I know IRL because for me discipline is an ongoing process of guiding my children through life. I am doing this so that later on I will be able to trust them when I am not there 24/7.

I do not want them to do or not do something because they might get caught..I want them to do it because it is the right thing to do.

my kids are pretty cool and pretty smart..if I were permissive they would be all over that and I would be in a lot of trouble.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
So you want a GD coach-for-hire?







That's a great idea!

To start with just examine your reasons for coming to this board at all. Something is bothering you about your current approach. Otherwise, why explore options?

If you can identify your motivation for being here, it will serve as a great reminder as you make changes in your parenting.

Well to be honest sometimes I just feel so sad after some of my interactions with my son and it seems nothing is working. I feel overwhelmed and I am trying to wrap my brain around this GD.


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Hm......know what I think? I think YOU are the parent, not the grandparents. They should respect your wishes. I'd have no problem telling my parents how NOT to "discipline" my child. Heck, even if I were a PROPONENT of spanking, THEY agree that no one should spank someone else's child. Ever. I think you just need to sit down and talk with them. Talk to them about how you are raising your children and that you have to work together since they are so close (geographically and emotionally). They should respect your wishes.

Don't worry about strangers. Who cares what they think.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
Yep it might sound that way but actually truth is I am on them like a wet blanket all the time..I am constantly teaching, modelling, talking, showing...on and on and on...to me permissive would be "oh do whatever you want" but I definitly don't do that. I am willing to bet I spend much more time on disciplining my children than many of the moms I know IRL because for me discipline is an ongoing process of guiding my children through life. I am doing this so that later on I will be able to trust them when I am not there 24/7.

I do not want them to do or not do something because they might get caught..I want them to do it because it is the right thing to do.

my kids are pretty cool and pretty smart..if I were permissive they would be all over that and I would be in a lot of trouble.









Ok I guess I just am not creative enough to catch every opportunity to do what you do and I guess I am going to have to try to be.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
Ok I guess I just am not creative enough to catch every opportunity to do what you do and I guess I am going to have to try to be.

I guess I am just with them all the time, try to include them in what I am doing, why I am doing it, letting them try things etc. First and foremost thiugh is the relationship...no matter what you cannot guide a child who doesnt feel safe with you.

And to be sure there are very trying times...kids can be difficult...but they are so worth it!


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## rowansmomma (Feb 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
Ok I guess I just am not creative enough to catch every opportunity to do what you do and I guess I am going to have to try to be.

Like others have said, its probably a mind set and something you will have to learn as you go. You won't suddenly wake up knowing exactly what to do.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls*
I guess I am just with them all the time, try to include them in what I am doing, why I am doing it, letting them try things etc. First and foremost thiugh is the relationship...no matter what you cannot guide a child who doesnt feel safe with you.

And to be sure there are very trying times...kids can be difficult...but they are so worth it!


Well I am a SAHM I am never away from them except when I am in the shower and sometimes not even then LOL. I guess my brain is just not that swift or creative.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

The more you practice GD, the more it will become intuitive. It does seem very overwhelming at first, almost like you need to remember a script. But it becomes second nature as you practice it.

Please consider reading some of the books recommended on the sticky. They will help you.

Nobody here became a GD guru overnight and nobody here is perfect. Your child is your main teacher and you will learn the most from him/her. You just need to start. You will make mistakes, you will revert back to old methods. Just forgive yourself and move on.

Honestly it can be intimidating reading all of the great things that the mamas do and wondering "how come I don't think of that?" but it will happen if you practice enough.

And ask as many questions as you want.


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## obiandelismom (May 31, 2005)

What might help in the beginning is to give yourself a phrase that you can go to when you feel yourself sliding back into punitive thinking. Maybe "This little person is completely dependent upon me" or "If DH (or other adult) did to me what I'm about to do to dc, would it help me do better in the future?" or "Is what I'm about to do going to help or hurt my relationship with dc?" or whatever little nugget of GD resonates best with you. For me, early on, my mantras were, "What is the REAL reason I am wanting dc to do/not to do XYZ?" and "What is the need behind the behavior that I'm seeing in dc?" (All of these, btw, were stolen from this board!)

Also, and I'm making a couple of leaps here, based on your use of the word "y'all"







- you might want to check out www.gentlechristianmothers.org. I'm from Alabama, and that site helped me so so much in the beginning. You really have to educate yourself away from the punitive mindset, and it's that much harder if it's been drilled into your skull from birth (as it so often is down here). The GCM site has tons of links to help you rethink ideas on "authority" and punishment in general.

Good luck!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

Well to be honest sometimes I just feel so sad after some of my interactions with my son and it seems nothing is working. I feel overwhelmed and I am trying to wrap my brain around this GD.
I think it's impressive then that you are willing to look at the issue and commit to changing. How old are your children?

Quote:

Well I am a SAHM I am never away from them except when I am in the shower and sometimes not even then LOL. I guess my brain is just not that swift or creative.
Some parents are naturally creative, yet many who GD are simply building on individual experiences. You try something new, you like the result, you build on that. You try something else, it flops, you learn from it. Eventually you have enough positive experiences to draw from, you recall them quickly as needed. Your child is your teacher too. You will learn together.

One thing to think about are your strengths. What do you consider your strong points as a parent? Identifying those is a good idea as you explore ways to repair the not-so-strong points you are struggling with right now. You don't want to just criticize yourself. Look at what you are doing right too.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *obiandelismom*
What might help in the beginning is to give yourself a phrase that you can go to when you feel yourself sliding back into punitive thinking. Maybe "This little person is completely dependent upon me" or "If DH (or other adult) did to me what I'm about to do to dc, would it help me do better in the future?" or "Is what I'm about to do going to help or hurt my relationship with dc?" or whatever little nugget of GD resonates best with you. For me, early on, my mantras were, "What is the REAL reason I am wanting dc to do/not to do XYZ?" and "What is the need behind the behavior that I'm seeing in dc?" (All of these, btw, were stolen from this board!)

Also, and I'm making a couple of leaps here, based on your use of the word "y'all"







- you might want to check out www.gentlechristianmothers.org. I'm from Alabama, and that site helped me so so much in the beginning. You really have to educate yourself away from the punitive mindset, and it's that much harder if it's been drilled into your skull from birth (as it so often is down here). The GCM site has tons of links to help you rethink ideas on "authority" and punishment in general.

Good luck!


TY! that is exactly what I needed and I just got done signing up at that message board LOL. In Fact I think I will print that mantra and hang it on the wall.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
I think it's impressive then that you are willing to look at the issue and commit to changing. How old are your children?

Some parents are naturally creative, yet many who GD are simply building on individual experiences. You try something new, you like the result, you build on that. You try something else, it flops, you learn from it. Eventually you have enough positive experiences to draw from, you recall them quickly as needed. Your child is your teacher too. You will learn together.

One thing to think about are your strengths. What do you consider your strong points as a parent? Identifying those is a good idea as you explore ways to repair the not-so-strong points you are struggling with right now. You don't want to just criticize yourself. Look at what you are doing right too.


I have a little boy who is 4 1/2 and a little girl who is 9 months. I think the only strengths I tecognize right now are the fact that my homeschooling is going really well and so is my bf. That is about it right now. Although I am struggling with depression so that is really clouding my view at times.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *obiandelismom*
What might help in the beginning is to give yourself a phrase that you can go to when you feel yourself sliding back into punitive thinking. Maybe "This little person is completely dependent upon me" or "If DH (or other adult) did to me what I'm about to do to dc, would it help me do better in the future?" or "Is what I'm about to do going to help or hurt my relationship with dc?" or whatever little nugget of GD resonates best with you. For me, early on, my mantras were, "What is the REAL reason I am wanting dc to do/not to do XYZ?" and "What is the need behind the behavior that I'm seeing in dc?" (All of these, btw, were stolen from this board!)

Also, and I'm making a couple of leaps here, based on your use of the word "y'all"







- you might want to check out www.gentlechristianmothers.org. I'm from Alabama, and that site helped me so so much in the beginning. You really have to educate yourself away from the punitive mindset, and it's that much harder if it's been drilled into your skull from birth (as it so often is down here). The GCM site has tons of links to help you rethink ideas on "authority" and punishment in general.

Good luck!

By the way I am in Texas.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Welcome to MDC. I learned a lot over at GCM too when I started GD. Several things that stood out to me were, "Get Off Your Butt Parenting" which basically meant that rather than shout orders from an 'armchair', you had to really get in there and model each behavior. You have to teach each thing you want done. It's a lot of work - more so than just doling out disciplines, but it does REALLY sink in for the kids when you really explain and model what it is you want done. A lot of the time it may mean I have to sit down with my kid for a 15 minute conversation about something and acknowledge that she is scared she will miss out on fun if she doesn't get to sleep with a (breakable) toy but after she has listened to me explain how the toy will be broken if she lays on it and how it could hurt her, she'll eventually go and put it away on her own (this has worked for us since before she turned 2).

Each kid has to be really studied by the parent. You have to know what pulls at their 'heart strings'. GD teaches kids the value of talking about things rather than hitting, etc. It teaches kids how to work out conflict. Only in cases of danger or some outside limit I do not have control over (or when I'm just at the end of my rope and I'm having a bad day) do I just demand/force obedience. And even then, it's not done in an embarrassing way - rather uneventful to the outside viewer. I think it takes a lot of time to learn how to motivate your kid and to inspire them to behave the way you think is best. It takes so much effort to gain that trust in them, but when you have it, there are so many days where my dd will do something I ask her to do because she loves me - nothing more. Doing chores or whatever it is, she just does it happily. It's much the same as when I respond to my dh's request for a sandwich or something - I agree to because of the dynamic trusting loving interdependent relationship he and I have.

Kids are way smarter than some people think. If you treat them with dignity, they eventually will respond to it. GD builds kids up to be the best kids they can be where I think punishments tear kids down and make them feel like crap. It gives intellectual reasons to do good where as punishment gives fear of doing wrong. GD treats them like humans, many punishments treat kids like beasts. With punishment-oriented relationships, it's all about 'getting away with' things. 'Pushing my limits' is not on my dd's radar because she knows that the only rules we have are to keep her safe and to respect others, not just to placate mommy's preferences. We go into a LOT of detail for her on why we don't allow her to lick the bottom of her shoes, etc. and she always ends up assuming her parents are smart people who have sound reasons for everything they do, as opposed to the way I felt as a kid - my parents were stupid rule mongering ogres in my mind.

Kids feel 'safe' with GD - not worrying about what pain they may suffer from the adults if they cross a line. I don't think you can underestimate the power of feeling 'respected' in a relationship. I know that I behave way better with people who make me feel 'dignified' as opposed to people who treat me 'like a child' (so telling how that phrase formed out of our culture's view of kids). One thing that really convinced me is that there are other cultures in the world who have been practicing GD for centuries and have not had all the doom come on them that people like my parents would foretell if you don't punish your kids enough. Punishment doesn't prevent vanity or create humility. It just makes the kid feel ashamed. It doesn't make them feel like they CAN do the right thing - it just takes the wind out of their sails and makes them resentful.

Learning the reasons kids misbehave helps a lot in guiding the situations you face.


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## FireFrog (Jun 14, 2006)

I just wanted to say that I really admire you for having the courage to ask questions.









In my mind, that makes you a great mom! You care enough to step out of your comfort zone and trust your instincts, regardless of what has been drilled into your head all of your life.

Go easy on yourself. Change takes time and "baby steps". Your children are so lucky to have a mother willing to grow along with them!


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## akkimmie (Nov 2, 2005)

:
I'm new here, hope you don't mind. I'm taking notes


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

:


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Cherri,










I have suffered from PPD after each of my births. These were dark and horrible times for me when I hated even going to bed at night or waking up in the morning. Too overwhelming. I wanted to invite you over to MDC's PPD Forum for some extra support if you'd be interested







I think it's really wonderful that you have some highlights in your life (hs and bf) and are open to learning more about GD.

Please go gentle on yourself while you are learning. GD is based on the mindset that children are innately good and have reasons for their behaviors which are based on needs. It's a process to let go of preconceived notions about how parents and children are "supposed" to interact. To learn to treat our children as we wish to be treated, with respect and unconditional love without punishment. It's a journey you will not regret


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

boon ty very much that was very helpful.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia*
Cherri,










I have suffered from PPD after each of my births. These were dark and horrible times for me when I hated even going to bed at night or waking up in the morning. Too overwhelming. I wanted to invite you over to MDC's PPD Forum for some extra support if you'd be interested







I think it's really wonderful that you have some highlights in your life (hs and bf) and are open to learning more about GD.

Please go gentle on yourself while you are learning. GD is based on the mindset that children are innately good and have reasons for their behaviors which are based on needs. It's a process to let go of preconceived notions about how parents and children are "supposed" to interact. To learn to treat our children as we wish to be treated, with respect and unconditional love without punishment. It's a journey you will not regret









I am going to check that forum out. This PPD actually started when I was 5 months pregnant and it is still kicking my butt BIG TIME. And I am trying so very hard to change what seems like to be ingrained in my brain.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FireFrog*
I just wanted to say that I really admire you for having the courage to ask questions.









In my mind, that makes you a great mom! You care enough to step out of your comfort zone and trust your instincts, regardless of what has been drilled into your head all of your life.

Go easy on yourself. Change takes time and "baby steps". Your children are so lucky to have a mother willing to grow along with them!









Well ty. Because for the most part I feel like a crappy mom but I am trying. Now I have all this information spinning around in my head and just have to try and get it organized so that I can actually use it.


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## IAMINSANE (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FireFrog*
I just wanted to say that I really admire you for having the courage to ask questions.









In my mind, that makes you a great mom! You care enough to step out of your comfort zone and trust your instincts, regardless of what has been drilled into your head all of your life.

Go easy on yourself. Change takes time and "baby steps". Your children are so lucky to have a mother willing to grow along with them!









Well ty. Because for the most part I feel like a crappy mom but I am trying. Now I have all this information spinning around in my head and just have to try and get it organized so that I can actually use it.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boongirl*
But, back to what I wrote above. You have to be in the situation instead of standing back and saying "do it." By that I mean that GD takes a more intimate approach to discipline. It does not have to do with consequences so much as how you talk to your children, how you treat them. Instead of treating my child as if she is inferior to me and should do what I say, I treat her respectfully, fully mindful of the fact that she is being a contrary butthead at times (I never say that out loud) and knowledgeable of the fact that her powers of reasoning are not fully developed. But, I can still be respecful of her and teach her things.

For example, she is prone to tantrums nowadays. We will watch an episode or two of PBS on demand and then I will turn the tv off. I have warned her that we are only watching 2 episodes but she still has a fit and cries and demands the tv be turned back on. I just give her some time to cry and get her emotions out and tell her all along that we will talk about it after she has had her good cry. When she is done, we sit and cuddle and talk (for the umpteenth time) about how tv is good for a short time but healthy people need to partake in a variety of activities, indoors and outdoors. She then gives me a heartfelt "sorry" and a hug and we go on with our day. She will get it someday and understand it and stop the tantrums. For now, I am just patient with them.


















I really like both of these thoughts...and I think this touches on how GD is *different* than permissive parenting or no discipline. A permissive/no discipline parent would always turn teh TV back on to avoid "dealing" with the tantrum and teaching the child anything abut moderation, etc. etc.

I think why people get confused is that with GD, we allow our children to express their displeasure and work through it, instead of tellign them to "stuff it" or "knock it off" - but that doesn't mean that we always defer to their desires (even the consensual mamas here find MUTUAL solutions, where their needs are met, too). We also try to figure our why a child is doing something (and not just focus on whatever it is they're doing itself) and try to find ways to accomodate that why, that need, creatively, if we can. I would like to think that if more people knew what GD really is, instead of assuming it's just "letting your children do whatever they want", more people would use it. Maybe that's just the cockeyed optimist in me...


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
IAMINSANE

I recommend you meditate on this aspect of the forum guidelines

What I'm hearing from you are some fears. Fear of what others will think. Fear of what grandparents will say or do if you change discipline tactics. Perhaps fear of how your children will behave if you do change.

It helps to become aware of how these fears shape our own behavior.

I think the fears will abate when you are confident that your parenting is meeting the needs of your family~no matter what others think or say. When you feel that in your heart that your approach is making your family happier and healthier, it will provide immunity to the opinions of others.

I have an 8 yr. old and I am trying to stick with GD but fall off the wagon sometimes since it is not where I started from. I think it extends beyond fear of what others think. For example, My sister and I got into this big argument because she told my ds she was going to spank him the NEXT time he hit her daughter. Daughter is 6. I got pissed and said let's go home. I can understand why she got tired of my child because since we had been visiting he hadn't been very nice and I kept calmly redirecting him, talking to him, trying to reason with him, and asking him why he treated his cousin like that. On the other hand, he would play quite well with his male cousin who is only 3. That is not my fear of what she will think but sometimes GD isnot good enough for others when your kids' behavior is infringing upon others.

Also, my mother visted us in Ecuador and my son said some rude stuff to her a few times. I can't just ignore it and nicely keep allowing him to disrespect my mother. I know that some GDers don't like telling kids when they are wrong. That is a difficult concept for me to understand. I do answer lots of questions though and believe that my child should be encouraged to ask why, however, if I have explained that you can't just talk to my mom in any kind of way because it is disrespectful, there is no more discussion after that.

One more thing, I was at a get-together and a hardcore GD mom allowed her son to just do whatever! the host is into GD too but she didn't appreciate the lack of redirection. 1. Son picked up bread and threw it - mom responded that he has a good arm. 2. Son kept trying to get to the cake - mom just moving it back. nothing stopped him. 3. Son, double and triple dipping into the shared dip for everyone - mom had no reaction.

#3 was the last straw for me by the way because I am so greedy and I really really liked the dip!!!


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveBeads*
The more you practice GD, the more it will become intuitive. It does seem very overwhelming at first, almost like you need to remember a script. But it becomes second nature as you practice it.

Please consider reading some of the books recommended on the sticky. They will help you.

Nobody here became a GD guru overnight and nobody here is perfect. Your child is your main teacher and you will learn the most from him/her. You just need to start. You will make mistakes, you will revert back to old methods. Just forgive yourself and move on.

Honestly it can be intimidating reading all of the great things that the mamas do and wondering "how come I don't think of that?" but it will happen if you practice enough.

And ask as many questions as you want.

What a wonderfully, encouraging message for me and others! Thank you! Has anyone read Playful Parenting, I was a spanking mama at the time that I read it but I started doing some of the suggestionS and it they worked for me.


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *obiandelismom*
What might help in the beginning is to give yourself a phrase that you can go to when you feel yourself sliding back into punitive thinking. Maybe "This little person is completely dependent upon me" or "If DH (or other adult) did to me what I'm about to do to dc, would it help me do better in the future?" or "Is what I'm about to do going to help or hurt my relationship with dc?" or whatever little nugget of GD resonates best with you. For me, early on, my mantras were, "What is the REAL reason I am wanting dc to do/not to do XYZ?" and "What is the need behind the behavior that I'm seeing in dc?" (All of these, btw, were stolen from this board!)


I totally agree with this..I used to repeat when my ds really upset me - I lovingly and peacefully discipline my son. I also affirm that I communicate love, peace, patience, kindness, understanding, and respect to my son and others too 100% of the time. It helps before I decide to react.!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes*
One more thing, I was at a get-together and a hardcore GD mom allowed her son to just do whatever!

See, that's the thing - as far as I know, "just allowing your kid to do anything" is NOT GD....just cause someone calls themself 'hardcore GD' doesn't mean it is so, and is often why GD gets a bad name. Letting your child do whatever they want without any guidance as to how their actions affect others is NOT GD, and is not doing your child any favors.

I do, however, agree for the most part with her handling of the cake situation. Point is, with her moving it back farther and farther, he didn't get the cake, which was the goal...just cause he didn't stop reaching for it, doesn't mean he didn't get the message that he wasn't gonna get the cake. Though I probably would have at some point early on either removed the cake entirely, or found him something else to go after. Just basing my thoughts on what you described in your post, I'm not sure of the specifics behind the situation.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
See I feel kids should do what their parents ask. It is for their safety and to teach them how to behave with others. I dont' see anything wrong with expecting them to obey. Now adults well their adults and should have been taught when they were a child how to behave so I should have to tell them what to do LOL.

Children who are taught to obey "just because" are being groomed for predators and for future abusive relationships. There are "listen first, question later" instances, and I agree that children should recognize that "note" in a parent's or caregiver's voice.

I think that I probably agree with you more than I disagree with you, though.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
Ok now that seems more reasonable. At first I thought you meant just be permissive and let them do whatever they want no matter what. But see I give them reasons they should obey I don't just say do it because I told you so.

I think that reasons sometimes come later. And sometimes "you already heard the reason, yesterday, the day before, the day before that, and the day before that. Discussing this further will make steam come out of my ears and hopefully that will release enough pressure and my head won't blow off, because then you will have an enormous mess to clean up [by now we're all laughing]."


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy*
Children who are taught to obey "just because" are being groomed for predators and for future abusive relationships. There are "listen first, question later" instances, and I agree that children should recognize that "note" in a parent's or caregiver's voice. .

You know, I just talked about this in a different thread, but this was a lightbulb moment for DH regarding our son challenging us....he realized that since he doesn't want our children to just listen to any adult simply *because* they are an adult (for the reasons quoted above, and since some adults may not have their best interests at heart, potentially even ones in a position of authority over them like teachers, people out in public, etc. etc.), that we want them to feel free to challenge authority when something doesn't feel right to them in their gut, or when they have an idea or reason why it doesn't agree with them; and we have to accept that they will do it with us, too...not saying that we always defer to our child, or that we are necessarily consensual, but we will not punish or in any way make our childrem feel badly for not always wanting to go along with what we request. They are free to express their opinions and displeasure about anything, and we will discuss situations as they arise.

I read somewhere here recently someone posted that they aren't looking for their child to be obedient, but they are looking for them to be cooperative. I liked that. It's that whole "team" dynamic (which can include a parent as the "coach" or "captain"), as opposed to the "us versus them" dynamic that the term obedience brings to mind.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IAMINSANE*
I have a little boy who is 4 1/2 and a little girl who is 9 months. I think the only strengths I tecognize right now are the fact that my homeschooling is going really well and so is my bf. That is about it right now. Although I am struggling with depression so that is really clouding my view at times.

And things can really get fun when the baby gets mobile!


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*

I read somewhere here recently someone posted that they aren't looking for their child to be obedient, but they are looking for them to be cooperative. I liked that. It's that whole "team" dynamic (which can include a parent as the "coach" or "captain"), as opposed to the "us versus them" dynamic that the term obedience brings to mind.

Hey, thanks for the reminder! I definitely need to remember this -- I feel very overwhelmed with THEM versus ME sometimes, and it's a way of thinking that does none of us any real favors.


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
See, that's the thing - as far as I know, "just allowing your kid to do anything" is NOT GD....just cause someone calls themself 'hardcore GD' doesn't mean it is so, and is often why GD gets a bad name. Letting your child do whatever they want without any guidance as to how their actions affect others is NOT GD, and is not doing your child any favors.

I do, however, agree for the most part with her handling of the cake situation. Point is, with her moving it back farther and farther, he didn't get the cake, which was the goal...just cause he didn't stop reaching for it, doesn't mean he didn't get the message that he wasn't gonna get the cake. Though I probably would have at some point early on either removed the cake entirely, or found him something else to go after. Just basing my thoughts on what you described in your post, I'm not sure of the specifics behind the situation.

Thanks for this message...that is probably why gD gets a bad rap. She grew up in a home where as soon as the key was in the door and she knew her parents were coming, she would start shaking. So, this is her way to make sure that doesn't happen with her kids. Do you think she should have told him to stop or no that is not okay to touch other people's cake because it is for everyone else too and he needs to wait? My impression (potentially false) is that no should never be said to kids nor should they be reprimanded - just championed when they do what is right.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes*
Do you think she should have told him to stop or no that is not okay to touch other people's cake because it is for everyone else too and he needs to wait?

Yeah - pretty much everyone here would agree that a big part of GD is letitng your child know how their actions impact other people - and having cake before everyone else is, well, rude, child or not, IMHO. SO I would totally tell my child that he needed to wait to have cake with everyone else, that it wasn't just his to have...BUT, I would try to find something else he could have until it was time for everyone to eat cake, instead of just telling him "tough luck".

I woudl wager that a vast majority of the mamas here, if they don't say the actual word "No", at the very least set limits for their children and redirect them in various situations.

I'm sorry for that mamas horrible childhood, but IMHO she's swinging too far in the other direction by not guiding him in how what he does affects others, and consequently, himself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes*
My impression (potentially false) is that no should never be said to kids nor should they be reprimanded - just championed when they do what is right.

Again - I am by no means the be all and end all of GD, but as far as I'm concerned, and I bet most mamas here would agree with me (though feel free to disagree!!) that GD is not about ignoring your child's faults and undesirable behaviors by glossing over them, but by teaching them more appropriate and constructive ways to do things and interact with people...and not overinflating and "championing" them for being "good"...in fact, there's a whole other side of GD that delves into not praising children in order to get them to do things....but that's a whole other thread.

It's not so much that GD mamas don't ever say "No" to their children; it's that we try to find ways to encourage the things they're trying to do in acceptable ways as opposed to just shutting them down with a "No" and no other direction and encouragement.

Please hang around; I think you migth be pleasantly surprised to see what GD is, and ISN'T!


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## aywilkes (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
Yeah - pretty much everyone here would agree that a big part of GD is letitng your child know how their actions impact other people - and having cake before everyone else is, well, rude, child or not, IMHO. SO I would totally tell my child that he needed to wait to have cake with everyone else, that it wasn't just his to have...BUT, I would try to find something else he could have until it was time for everyone to eat cake, instead of just telling him "tough luck".

I woudl wager that a vast majority of the mamas here, if they don't say the actual word "No", at the very least set limits for their children and redirect them in various situations.

I'm sorry for that mamas horrible childhood, but IMHO she's swinging too far in the other direction by not guiding him in how what he does affects others, and consequently, himself.

Again - I am by no means the be all and end all of GD, but as far as I'm concerned, and I bet most mamas here would agree with me (though feel free to disagree!!) that GD is not about ignoring your child's faults and undesirable behaviors by glossing over them, but by teaching them more appropriate and constructive ways to do things and interact with people...and not overinflating and "championing" them for being "good"...in fact, there's a whole other side of GD that delves into not praising children in order to get them to do things....but that's a whole other thread.

It's not so much that GD mamas don't ever say "No" to their children; it's that we try to find ways to encourage the things they're trying to do in acceptable ways as opposed to just shutting them down with a "No" and no other direction and encouragement.

Please hang around; I think you migth be pleasantly surprised to see what GD is, and ISN'T!

Thanks. I'm definitely going to stick around. I have an 8 yo and only recently started employing GD or GentLER D but I am PG and my biggest concern has been how I am going to be better than I was before. I actually think I was probably more GD until my son went to K. But, I really want to be a better mom so I'm working toward having it more together with my DS who is 8 now so that come Feb. It is more natural for me. I've been trying a long time though and on the whole successful although I fall sometimes.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes*
I've been trying a long time though and on the whole successful although I fall sometimes.

You and me both, sister....you and me both. That's part of being human, and totally OK for your kids to see...helps them realize it's OK too when they're not "perfect". The difference with GD is recognizing when you're falling, admit it to your kids, apologize for your behavior, and take steps to make changes.

Welcome, and enjoy!


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## ejmom777 (Aug 9, 2006)

Sophmama ... & The4OfUs

I just wanted to say that I found your posts very helpful!

Aswell as all of the other posts!
I'm a new mom and I knew I didn't want to use punitive, shaming, yelling, or spanking methods but didnt know how else to handle things until the past few days of reading posts and links on MDC.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aywilkes*
I have an 8 yr. old and I am trying to stick with GD but fall off the wagon sometimes since it is not where I started from. I think it extends beyond fear of what others think. For example, My sister and I got into this big argument because she told my ds she was going to spank him the NEXT time he hit her daughter. Daughter is 6. I got pissed and said let's go home. I can understand why she got tired of my child because since we had been visiting he hadn't been very nice and I kept calmly redirecting him, talking to him, trying to reason with him, and asking him why he treated his cousin like that. On the other hand, he would play quite well with his male cousin who is only 3. That is not my fear of what she will think but sometimes GD isnot good enough for others when your kids' behavior is infringing upon others.

Why is it GD to keep a child in a situation in which they repeatedly hurt another child? I seem to encounter this a lot, that the agressor's "rights" or "needs" are considered above someone else's need to be safe. It becomes a matter of "if you can't stop yourself, I will help." I'm sorry, but if calmly redirecting, talking, reasoning, and trying to get to the bottom of the behavior isn't keeping another child from being hit sooner rather than later, the visit should end and the getting to the bottom of it can happen later.

JMO, of course, but what I hear your sister saying is, "If your mom won't keep my child safe, I will in the way that I know." Doesn't make it okay for her to threaten to hit your child. I just understand the mama bear feeling that I'm imagining that she felt at that moment.


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