# I really need some help... Update #24



## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

There is a lot to this, I am going to TRY to make it as brief as I can.

I am 8 months pregnant. I have a 16.5 month old son. Who does.not.sleep. Well, he sleeps, but just not how I need him to, I guess. I understand that he is just a baby and still needs me and still needs to nurse at night for comfort. I get all of that. BUT he wakes up every 45 minutes all.night.long. Once in a blue moon he'll sleep all night. But it's one extreme or the other... and the sleeping all night happens like once every few weeks... nothing seems to trigger the sleeping.

Unfortunately, like I said I am 8 months pregnant. I naturally have a short fuse, right now it's much worse due to the pregnancy and lots of stress that I cannot eliminate at this time. I am constantly yelling at my son, at my husband, and at anyone else that even looks at me the wrong way. I KNOW it is due to lack of sleep. Those few nights once in awhile when he does sleep all night I am on top of the world the next day.

It is NOT good for me to take this out on my son, and I try to curb the yelling as much as I can.... but a person can only take so much on 30 minutes of sleep here and there all night. Some nights I don't think I ever manage to sleep.

My husband CAN NOT get up with him at night. It is NOT an option. His job depends on him getting enough sleep. He is easily replaced at his job, and his boss makes sure he knows it too. He only has one night a week where he doesn't have to work the next day and that is just not enough time for him to get DS to sleep without me.

This baby is going to be here at the end of next month. I have to do something about my son's sleep habits NOW. I have no money to buy a book, and no time (or brain power) to research this to death. There is NO WAY I can handle getting any less sleep than I am now. My DS NEEDS to sleep more at night by the time this baby is born....

I think CIO is the meanest thing you can do to a child (plus we cosleep, so it wouldn't work anyway







) but I'm starting to wonder which would be less traumatic to him.... me screaming at him all the time, or him crying himself to sleep.







: Why do I feel backed into a corner like these are my only options?!

ETA: Please don't tell me this will pass. I may just lose my mind. I've been telling myself that for 16 months. I know it will pass. But time is something I do not have.


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## MommaEarth (Jul 25, 2007)

first of all, I think that we ALL get super agitated with co-sleeping at some point. Just a few months ago I was always yelling at my son, who was 12 months old! It's easier now... but that doesn't help you, does it? The only thing I can really say is to try the No Cry sleep solution. There is a book and may be a website. It can't hurt to give it a try.

Good luck, mama. *HUGS*


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

How are his naps? can you give up a lot of housework so you can sleep when he does?
I know you are looking ro ways to get get him to sleep better but in all honesty both my kids jsut wou;dn't stay asleep until they hit the 19 mos mark.
I never tried CIO but I did try routines and patting and having DH get up...all to no avail until they reached 19 mos.

so is there anyway just for you to get more sleep?


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## GatorNNP (May 17, 2004)

First, how do you know it is 45 minutes? You have a clock where you can see it and that increases stress and anxiety if you are co sleeping. Go to a friends house or a hotel 1 or 2 nights and get your sanity back, then ditch the clock. All it does is stress you out. There have been threads about this. It was the best thing I ever did.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

45 minutes seems on the extreme end of the spectrum and I am wondering if something is waking him up or if he just wakes up.

Do either of you move around a lot in your sleep or snore? Maybe ask your dh if you move around a lot?


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## nascarbebe (Nov 4, 2006)

you sound really stressed. At one point I was getting really stressed out with cosleeping because I was waking up all sore from the way I had to sleep all scrunched up from my son hogging up the bed. Sometime when he was around 13 mos I set up all the extra comforters and blankets next to the bed and decided to only night nurse DS there on the floor. He could sleep with us but for nursing it had to be on the floor. He learned he could sleep all on his own without us. I figured out when he was only wanting to nurse for comfort and those times I'd just lie on the floor with him on my chest and rub his back while he cried and tried to comfort him in other ways. Sometimes I even gave him a sippie or animal crackers but he usually just held them because he really wasn't hungry. It was hard but I had confidence it would work.

This all eventually paid off. It was probably really hard for a week or so but it kept getting better to the point where I only had to nurse him before bed and eliminated all the other nursings by 15 mos. At 18 mos. he weaned himself completely. He's learned he enjoys having the space on the floor to himself at night. He still climbs in bed with us but sometimes he climbs back down to sleep on the floor too.

I think you just need to be a little tougher and think about how you'll be a much better wife and mom if you get more rest. I don't know if it's comfortable for you to snuggle your little guy at night or comfort him somehow without nursing but you should try to eliminate some of those nursings. He'll have to get used to that anyway with the new baby coming. If you do it out of love you're not being a bad mom.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

I recently got a little toddler bed off craigslist for my 16 month old and transitioned her to sleeping in it. I also nightweaned. (are you still nursing at night?)
There was some trauma, some in-arms crying and such, but I'm SO glad we did it, she's now sleeping form 10-5:30 with no nursing, in her own bed!

Maybe you should consider this as an option.... she sleeps so much better in her "big girl" bed, since we're not thrashing around and waking her up....

good luck!


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## ochoco (Oct 19, 2005)

I second the recommendation for a separate bed for your older child. We have a twin mattress on the floor next to our queen bed (well, mattress + box spring; no bed frames.) We have a 19 mo now, and we went from co-sleeping to this at about 15 months. Our motivation was that our DS is a kicker and thrasher in his sleep, and we were tired of getting kicked in the head! (He's really very mild-mannered while awake!)

It's four months in, and we're still transitioning, but things have improved so, so much. I'm not angry like I was, I'm not beat, I'm not getting sick all the time. We used Jay Gordon's method of nightweaning, which was GREAT. Here's the link for that:

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

It wasn't completely smooth - as Enudely did, we also had some in-arms crying (not traumatic, though, or we would have stopped and tried later - more on the level of when he wants to stay at the park when we need to leave, ykwim?) Anyway, we now get about seven hours of sleep, with no expectation of nursing. He might wake up once or twice, but we can pat him on the back and he feels comforted enough to get back to sleep. Our nursing relationship didn't suffer at all - in fact, I was starting to resent it, and now I'm really happy to nurse him first thing in the AM.

Good luck - lack of sleep is hell, and lack of sleep while very pregnant...well, I feel for you! You can do this. He can do this, too, and he will be just fine, I promise!


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## Cyndi33 (May 27, 2005)

When I night weaned my daughter she slept much better. I couldnt take waking up all the time either and I thought I was going to lose my mind too!
She sleeps in her toddler bed for the majority of the night and when she does come into bed with us she just pops in and goes to sleep! Theres no way could have nursed her and my baby at night. I hope you get rest soon!!


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## jeteaa (Jan 23, 2007)

I feel that if you have to choose between CIO and being very stressed and yelling. I would choose CIO. 17 months old is not a baby. Hes a toddler. Don't feel guilty. You are giving hm the gift of a sibling. You need to take care of your newborn and youself. Sleep is very important for you now!!


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

You sound just like me when my ds was your dc's age. I suffered through it and it sucked and I had alot of resentment for my son for nursing at alot of times. I constantly was angry about it.

Something I think would have helped me, frankly, would have been an open forum to complain about it. La Leche League is usually a good place for breastfeeding/young babe gripes.

I wish I had more to offer you, but I would find a LLL group IMMEDIETLY and call the leader if you need to vent-go to meetings if you can get there-I know its so hard not to sleep.


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks everyone. Not cosleeping, nightweaning and CIO aren't actual options for me. Most of that was venting, I wouldn't actually leave my baby to cry (I'm glad most of you got that!) He's only 17 months old... still a baby, IMO.

I talked to my midwife today, who suggested a protein snack for myself and DS right before bed... that night waking may be due to hunger/blood sugar drop.... which makes sense due to the fact that DS isn't actually getting much when he nurses.

ETA: Oh, I know it's 45 minutes becuase I have a really good internal clock... it could be anywhere from 30minutes to an hour... but I always know within 10 minutes or so what time it is, I rarely have to look at a clock. It's a blessing and a curse.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeteaa* 
I feel that if you have to choose between CIO and being very stressed and yelling. I would choose CIO. 17 months old is not a baby. Hes a toddler. Don't feel guilty. You are giving hm the gift of a sibling. You need to take care of your newborn and youself. Sleep is very important for you now!!

Ugh. Please don't suggest CIO. MDC is our haven from such heartless talk.


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## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daisie125* 
I talked to my midwife today, who suggested a protein snack for myself and DS right before bed... that night waking may be due to hunger/blood sugar drop.... which makes sense due to the fact that DS isn't actually getting much when he nurses.

That sounds plausible to me. I'm also pregnant and when my milk supply started to dry up, it took my DS a while to adjust to not getting a nice steady flow of calories at night, and for a while he was waking more than before. It helped when we would make sure to feed him something substantial before putting him to bed, and for a while we also were keeping something on hand to feed him when he would wake up in the middle of the night. He eventually adjusted and now he sleeps better, but if he doesn't eat well before bed he'll still wake up hungry at night.


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## scbegonias (Aug 15, 2003)

My DD and I had the same problem when I was pregnant with DS. My midwife suggested eating before bed, and it made all the difference. We also kept snacks by the bed just in case we did wake up...it made the wakeful time much shorter. Hang in there!


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Do you cosleep? If so go to drjaygordon.com and search for his article, changing the sleep pattern in the family bed. I nightweaned my first, who also woke a LOT, when she was 19 months old and I was pregnant. There were a few tears (all with me there, since we were cosleeping), but by night 3 she was sleeping straight through. The first couple of nights were TOTALLY worth the result, for us. I couldn't take it anymore.

Crying is not the end of the world. You don't have to either CIO or give him everything he wants. It's okay if he cries, if you're there with him. You can explain to him that your boobies (whatever he calls them) need sleep, so they're going to be asleep too and he can't nurse. Pick 6 hours or so to start, like midnight to 6, or 11 to 5. Be tough between those hours. Sleep with a top on. Comfort him, cuddle him, but don't nurse him. He'll be pissed, but he's not an infant and he'll get over it. You'll be there for him, just not in exactly the way he wants, and that's okay. Once he's sleeping through those hours, you can add an hour one at a time if you need a little more. Like, make it 11 to 6, then 11 to 7, over time, as he adjusts.

You've been an attached parent all this time. He has grown up knowing he can trust you. That foundation will make the transition easier. Being a loving, attached mommy does not mean that your needs don't count. Having nursed through a pregnancy, I know exactly how you feel. I have NO regrets about nightweaning my toddler during my 2nd pregnancy. I was also getting short tempered and very irritable from lack of sleep. My daytime mothering was suffering horribly from the deprivation. It's not "heartless" to need a full night's sleep while your body grows a new person.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scbegonias* 
We also kept snacks by the bed just in case we did wake up...it made the wakeful time much shorter.









:

I keep snacks in our bedroom because DS is always very hungry when he wakes up.

OP, our waking pattern is different -- my 17 mo DS wakes once for a two- or three-hour stretch between 2 and 5. Also, I am not as far along as you. Nevertheless, I truly do get what you are saying. It's really, really hard.


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## jeteaa (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
Ugh. Please don't suggest CIO. MDC is our haven from such heartless talk.

I have read alot about CIO, and would not choose to ever use CIO. But if mom is SOOOO sleep deprived that she is YELLING at her children. Then YES, I think it is ok at times to GET SOME SLEEP. why do you think loving mothers shake their kids to death. because they are exhusted!!! I love ap parneting, but we are all human, not machines that can run 24 hrs a day.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeteaa* 
I have read alot about CIO, and would not choose to ever use CIO. But if mom is SOOOO sleep deprived that she is YELLING at her children. Then YES, I think it is ok at times to GET SOME SLEEP. why do you think loving mothers shake their kids to death. because they are exhusted!!! I love ap parneting, but we are all human, not machines that can run 24 hrs a day.

ITA with this and I think there are many changes that can be made in the OP's situation. none of which include letting her DC cry alone. For example I'm not opposed to nightweaning (which can include crying in arms). It's the 'alone' part of CIO that makes me want to cry.

As it happens the OP isn't open to much (her choice) so that's fine. But I just hate hearing CIO advice on here.


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## madhavi (Jul 2, 2006)

i night weaned my dd at about 1 1/2. i tried many different things, even putting bitter tasting things (neem oil-not toxic or anything, just bitter) on my breasts which some indian women told me they did. it didnt' work for me. i finally brought different things for her to eat and drink to bed with us. when she wanted to nurse i would offer her those things. she did cry, in my arms. she would say she was hungry or thirsty and i would offer her food or drink. it was hard but it was better than painful teeth marks and not sleeping. it took about 3 nights and now she will be 3 in october and she sleeps at least 12 hours every night. we also had a bed time routine which i think was extremely helpful. i was cosleeping as well at that time. my dh was kicked out of the room for a few nights so his sleep wasn't disturbed. one great book, and i know you said you couldn't buy anything, but maybe you can order from your local library or ck the book store is called
the aware baby
or
tears and tantrums
by
aletha j solter
definetly helped me TONS...
good luck and love and hugs to you...
sleep deprivation stinks!


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I'm in a similar boat...I've hit the wall with my nearly 16mo now and we are now having my dh take on most of the nighttime parenting just to break the habit of nursing back to sleep.

Honestly, I think a lot of the time it is simply habit. We all get into them when it comes to sleep...babies are no different. Some people fall asleep to music or the tv or have white nose and when those things change they struggle. I think changing the notion that sleep can only come after nursing is important for everyone when mama gets to the point of not functioning well during the day.

I have two children and my older one has really had the short end of the stick as a result of the ridiculous sleep deprivation I've been going through since ds2 was born. I realized in the last weeks that it is just not fair to the family to keep on like this. With my first, it was only my dh and I who suffered. Now it's also another child and that's where I draw the line. It simply isn't ok anymore.

Now that you have another on the way, these will be issues that crop up in different ways and it's ok for your older one and younger one to experience the fact that there are other people in the family whose needs matter.

I'm on a bit of a rant! I'm so exhausted and we've hit the point of consciously working to change things. I would work on some of this now because with the demands of a newborn, you will need your older one to be able to sleep more than 45 mins at a time.


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## robinchap1 (Mar 15, 2007)

OP... You are amazing! I am NOT pregnant and I am SO tired I don't know up from down right now. My DS wakes every hour (give or take) all night as well... and is nightnursing addicted.
Anyway... just wanted to send a hug and tell you how great you are and wish you the best. Sounds like some good suggestions here and I'm going to take some of them myself!

On that note... what types of things are you mamas using for these late night/before bed snacks? Would love some ideas of what might tide him over better. I'd certainly try that...


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Apples and cheese are least likely to promote tooth decay.


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

Quote:

As it happens the OP isn't open to much (her choice) so that's fine
That's not so much the case. It's more than I'm not willing to do something permenent (like night weaning) to fix a temporary situation. I have no doubt in my mind that this will all change when the baby is born and my milk is in.... Plus nursing won't hurt anymore and I'll be able to sleep through it again. I really just needed advice for coping in the now. Re-reading my OP, I didn't exactly make that clear... what can I say? Sleep deprivation









Last night he only woke up 3 times from 12-9, and for the first time in weeks I didn't have to nurse him AND rock him back to sleep... so things ARE getting better. We've been having a filling, high protein snack before bed. I'd keep a snack by the bed, but I know he wouldn't eat in the middle of the night... he won't even drink out of a cup, just showing it to him sends him into hysterics.

Honestly, I was shocked to see so much advice to stop cosleeping or to nightwean. I posted here rather than another board so I didn't have to put a million disclaimers in my OP saying that those weren't options. Guess those things aren't a given at MDC anymore....


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I think it's the age, and the fact that you are so short on time. Nightweaning, and putting the baby in a different bed in the same room, are both things that some toddlers his age turn out to be perfectly fine with but you don't know until you try. NO ONE at MDC would suggest either of those things just because he is "too old" or something like that, but since this is more or less an emergency where SOMETHING has to change, posters are thinking outside the box a bit. I think everyone here would agree that if you did try those things and he really objected, you should stop trying them.

I have another possible suggestion, since your milk supply is low and part of the issue seems to be that he needs a temporary supplement to your breast milk. Is he drinking any drinks out of the cup? It sounds as though he is. Since he is old enough for the virgin gut not to be an issue, I would buy some toddler/ "follow-up" formula. There are organic ones put out by companies who even follow the WHO code, from what I understand. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it is closer to the breastmilk he "should" be getting than, say, cow's milk or juice, and since he still is getting some milk from you he is getting the proper immunological factors still. If he will take drinks of follow-up formula during the day when he would normally drink juice or water (not when he would normally nurse, obviously) or maybe in place of some of his solid foods, he might feel more satisfied, have more of his nutrient needs met, and not want to nurse at night so much. Then you can discontinue it when your milk is back in. To me, this seems more logical and easier for such a young toddler than trying to make up the gap with solid foods.


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## Daisie125 (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks, we've tried formula... he WILL NOT drink it. Won't even come in the kitchen if he sees the can. (Not so sure I can blame him... that stuff is really revolting taste-wise)

He is on a seperate mattress in our room, pushed up to ours... I must have read over that suggestion, I don't recall seeing it. It's been like that since I got pregnant and needed more room. It's still cosleeping, though... all I have to do it roll over to get into his bed and vice versa.

He is a very big eater, solids wise, and has been since before I lost my milk. He gets plenty during the day... he eats more than I do some days.

I'm just going to continue with the before bed snack as it seems to be helping.


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## acu-mom (Jessica) (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madhavi* 
i night weaned my dd at about 1 1/2. i tried many different things, even putting bitter tasting things (neem oil-not toxic or anything, just bitter) on my breasts which some indian women told me they did. it didnt' work for me. i finally brought different things for her to eat and drink to bed with us. when she wanted to nurse i would offer her those things. she did cry, in my arms. she would say she was hungry or thirsty and i would offer her food or drink. it was hard but it was better than painful teeth marks and not sleeping. it took about 3 nights and now she will be 3 in october and she sleeps at least 12 hours every night. we also had a bed time routine which i think was extremely helpful. i was cosleeping as well at that time. my dh was kicked out of the room for a few nights so his sleep wasn't disturbed. one great book, and i know you said you couldn't buy anything, but maybe you can order from your local library or ck the book store is called
the aware baby
or
tears and tantrums
by
aletha j solter
definetly helped me TONS...
good luck and love and hugs to you...
sleep deprivation stinks!

I second this! The nightweaning and Solter's books also helped me. All the best to you.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It's a shame he won't drink anything in the middle of the night. When I was pg and nursing I'd often have a drink in the middle of the night (in fact, I kept a cup of water by my bed the whole time I was nursing) and I'd offer it to my toddler. Something about it being Mommy's glass of water made it more appealling. Sometimes she'd take a sip and then not want to nurse, sometimes she'd take a sip and then still want to nurse, but the nursing wasn't as intense and it was much more bearable if we'd both had some water first.


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## ochoco (Oct 19, 2005)

Hm. Well, I don't see nightweaning as permanent - in fact, DS woke up crying at 12:30 last night, and I nursed him back to sleep. No big deal. I doubt any AP/cosleeping parents are going to be rigid about nightweaning. Most of the time, it works wonderfully for all of us. When it's not working, we adapt.

Also, his 'own' bed is contiguous with ours, and about four inches lower. I can sleep with my arm around him (until he rolls away), and if I need to go join him or he needs to go join me, it's an extremely simple thing to do. It's not like I've locked him into some room by himself without any access to comfort!


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## GracesMama (Oct 24, 2006)

I feel for you. 2 year old DD is still nursing several times a night (sometimes every hour) and I'm 15 weeks pregnant. Like you, it hurts now, so I can't sleep through it. Here are a few things that have helped:

Do you nurse him to sleep in the beginning of the night? We changed our routine so that I nurse DD in bed, sing to her, cuddle with her, and leave (no CIO involved) Now she doesn't always ask to nurse when she wakes up, although sometimes she'll ask me to sing...pretty annoying to my husband at 3 a.m.









You said your child won't drink water...bummer. Once we introduced water, that helped a lot. In fact, sometimes she asks for it instead of nursing now.

Could he be too hot or too cold? Even thought it's summer, we discovered that DD sleeps better with light-weight full body sleepers, with feet and everything.

Could he be teething? On nights when DD wakes up every 45 minutes to an hour, I'll give her some ibuprofin...she always seems to sleep for at least 3 hours straight after that (she's getting her 2 year molars).

Can you nap with him..or do you work? If you work, maybe on the weekend you could have someone watch your son while you take a much needed rest!

Okay, I'm probably going to get blasted for this one, but a few weeks ago, I was desperate for sleep. DD hadn't really slept in 3 days, she had a cold, and the doctor said it would be okay to give her Benadryl for just one night (not only does it help with stuffy noses, but it also knocks a child out). I did it, for one night only, and she actually slept for a few 3 -4 hour stretches...it was heaven!! Please note, I am in no way suggesting this as a nightly solution.








Know that you are not alone.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GracesMama* 

Okay, I'm probably going to get blasted for this one, but a few weeks ago, I was desperate for sleep. DD hadn't really slept in 3 days, she had a cold, and the doctor said it would be okay to give her Benadryl for just one night (not only does it help with stuffy noses, but it also knocks a child out). I did it, for one night only, and she actually slept for a few 3 -4 hour stretches...it was heaven!! Please note, I am in no way suggesting this as a nightly solution.

Actually there was a study showing that it speeds most kids up rather than knocking them out. It's legitimate for stuffy noses, but usually hurts rather than helps sleep.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GracesMama* 

Okay, I'm probably going to get blasted for this one, but a few weeks ago, I was desperate for sleep. DD hadn't really slept in 3 days, she had a cold, and the doctor said it would be okay to give her Benadryl for just one night (not only does it help with stuffy noses, but it also knocks a child out). I did it, for one night only, and she actually slept for a few 3 -4 hour stretches...it was heaven!! Please note, I am in no way suggesting this as a nightly solution.








Know that you are not alone.

I dont know a parent in real life that hasnt done this. I have. Most mainstream parents do this ALL the time. Thats why they are putting major warnings on kids cold medicines now, kids are dying. (Not that you were putting your kid in danger for one night-but this is what can happen!!!)

Jenny


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## nycbasel (Oct 21, 2005)

I'm pregnant with an older DD, but we were successful with a VERY gradual "night weaning" -- explaining that I needed sleep, she needed sleep, and the boobies (or whatever DS calls them) needed sleep. It was v. gentle, the times she really got upset, I explained that the moon was out and not the sun, but did bf. Eventually we had less and less night wakings ... mainly because as you say, exhaustion is not fun, the pain with bfing pregnant was making so that I was starting to resent her waking.

I did offer a *new* sippy-style cup (SIGG bottle) that glows in the dark. Not sure it helped, but she does drink a significant amount of water at night from it. And it has become part of the night-time routine. Again, I read somewhere that pregnancy milk may be salty ? and I am also guessing there is significantly less there.

Good or bad, she now nursing upon waking (new time) and wants to cuddle for 30+ minutes ONLY with me; and will ask for boobies when tired -- FINALLY I know when she's tired









Good luck. It's amazing what these little ones do comprehend when you talk to them: explain you need to sleep when the moon is shining and that you'll nurse as much as he may want when the sun comes back, yada yada.


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