# Where do you fall on the gentle discipline spectrum?



## tribalmax (Oct 10, 2004)

When I first started posting and reading more in this forum, I was surprised at how much variety there is with discipline styles.

I guess I was naive to think that gentle discipline would look "mostly" the same.

Anyway, just curious where everyone stand. I know that some of these lines may be blurry -- and some of us practice bits of everything -- so try to pick the one that you do most of.








Thanks, I am looking forward to seeing these results. This will be very interesting.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

We practice non-violent communication but not so much consentual living as described by WuWei and others, although I admire them and wish I could make it work for us.

I often feel terribly inadequate after reading consentual living posts. DD will never, in a thousand million gadzillion trillion years, or a bazillion quadmillion different kinds of carseats or cars or treats or toys, EVER get into the carseat voluntarily. Or say, "Wow, thanks, I'd LOVE to brush my teeth."


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I picked AP and GD, but I also have to add that I'm quite anti-punishment/rewards.
Ds's desires/opinions/feelings matter just as much as mine and dp's do, so I do what I can to respect the desires/etc of the whole family. I strive to be consensual as much as I can be (which is the majority of the time), but I try not to feel bad in those situation where my actions are "the best I can do" and not "ideal" kwim? But I wouldn't consider myself CL (DP pretty much is, though he refuses to be labeled. lol)
And I'm learning about NVC, and I think I actually already speak to ds that way (um, a lot of the time. sometimes though, I suck at it. lol)


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

AP is what came naturally to me when I had my son, and as he got older that began to also translate into GD.

But I would say I'm middle of the road GD. I respect my son's feelings and feel he is a person who deserves just as much respect as I do. I love Alfie Kohn, and strive to live a life totally free of rewards or punishments. But I also don't feel bad or guilty when I fall short, and I also have some things that are non-negotiable that I make my son do for his health or safety. Sure, I do them gently and try to find a solution that works for both of us, but I still expect him to do those things .. after reading here, I think that makes me "less" GD than I thought!


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I suspect most people will pick the AP/GD choice, as I did, but I think there's a pretty wide range of beliefs even among those of us who say we're in that category.


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## tribalmax (Oct 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
I suspect most people will pick the AP/GD choice, as I did, but I think there's a pretty wide range of beliefs even among those of us who say we're in that category.

Ok -- fair enough...

would you divide the category? If so, how?

Really -- just curious about how people view and practice these methods differently.


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## art4babies (Mar 6, 2004)

I usually find that getting the child to want to do something rather than telling them to do it works best for all of us.


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

The most honest option for me would be, "I practice attachment parenting and aspire to gentle discipline, but I'm not very good at it."


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

I picked the AP/GD (*but have a hard time not yelling sometimes) thats my intention anyhow


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## Individuation (Jul 24, 2006)

There's no category for me here. Simply put, I don't think that "mainstream" parenting is in any way stricter or more "discipline-oriented" than attachment parenting. Where I live, most of the "mainstream" parents I see are INCREDIBLY permissive, don't believe in limits, are aghast at the idea of "shaming" children for their behavior, and say things like "he's a person and needs to make his own decisions."

Thus, by any "mainstream" standards that I've ever seen, I would have to say that I'm strict (some people might say "traditional"). I consider myself AP, although probably not GD--we have some absolute rules in our house. So which category would I choose?

ETA: I think that there should be a "I practice attachment parenting, but feel that GD is too permissive, although I do not spank or yell."


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## fly-mom (May 23, 2005)

I consider myself GD. I am somewhat mainstream, but with mostly AP tendancies. I did do one decidedly non-AP thing w/dd, so I can not, by definition, be in the AP club. I'll leave it at that...

I am very GD though, with leanings toward CL. I do feel that we can not be completely CL, but it a nice ideal to strive for, and it colors my interactions w/dd quite a bit. I very rarely yell and I am very easy going about a lot of things (especially now that I have quit my job!). I try to encourage independence by letting dd make her own decisions and I do try to let her learn by experience when safe. Needless to say, I don't spank. I tried time outs briefly, but abandoned them very quickly.

My most useful parenting "mantra" for this age is this: AVOID POWER STRUGGLES!


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I am AP all the way, however I'm learning more every day about GD, but I don't think I am experienced with it enough to say I put it into practice every day. I yell too much sometimes, but I never use physical violence against my children. As far as consensual living is concerned, I think DH is more on board with that than I am. It sounds good in theory but is unlikely to be a reality in this house, at least with me anyways.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

You missed out one category:
I _try_ to practice gentle discipline and generally succeed, but fail spectacularly every now and then.
That would have been mine.


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## naturegirl (Apr 16, 2002)

I would say that I am ap and learning about gd. I am here to learn more about the "discipline" aspect of ap.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
I suspect most people will pick the AP/GD choice, as I did, but I think there's a pretty wide range of beliefs even among those of us who say we're in that category.

I agree

I think of things like some people consider positive reinforcement / rewards GD and some don't. Some use them very sparingly.

I also think of differences in different "battles" and how we fight them (ie: if a child doesn't want to eat dinner will mom make a 2nd dinner, can child grab yogurt, is just a sandwich an option (and will mom or dad make it







)

I think some people go for naturual consequences, and some feel them too harsh (in certian situations, I'm not suggestion anyone here would let their 2yo be hit by a car because he wanted to run in the street









Another difference I see (again not sure how to phrase it) is the "do we dress kids who dont' want to get dressed if we want to go out or do we just say home."

I think we all have different bags of "tricks" we are all more comfy with some tricks than with others, but I dont' know exactly how I would phrase the poll differently (except many putting in something about rewards and something about when the child says no and the parent says yes does the parent "help" the child follow through (ie: get dressed) or drop it at the time.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tribalmax* 
Ok -- fair enough...

would you divide the category? If so, how?

Really -- just curious about how people view and practice these methods differently.

Maybe you could have boxes to check something like this:
I practice consensual living/TCS/non-coercive parenting.
I set limits or require certain things, but not very often.
I think it's important to set limits and have behavior requirements.
I try not to use punishment or consequences.
I use consequences, but nothing I consider punishment.
Sometimes a fair, reasonable punishment is appropriate.
I try not to use rewards or praise.
I'm careful about how I use rewards/praise, but I do use them.
Rewards and praise are good.


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

Quote:

I practice attachment parenting, but feel that GD is too permissive, although I do not spank or yell.








:

I am interested in GD in order to find creative ways to help my child learn how to behave, but in general I find many of the examples of GD I read about overly permissive for my style.

I do not want to spank or yell, but I will use other punishments if necessary (such as time-outs), and will also use rewards and praise. I know that's unpopular, so I tend to not participate in discussions.

My baby is seven weeks old, so all is subject to change. At this point, I practice AP and there is no discipline involved, of course!


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I voted "AP and GD," but the real truth is that I am AP and striving to practice GD. I fall short all the time, but I am getter better (even if by tiny increments...).


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I'm very gentle and respectful. I am not a yeller, so that's not been an issue except for a rare occasion. I have always had a lot of patience. My mother says I have 'too much patience'.







Well, yes, Mother, compared to you I do .









I am not of the strickly non -coersion camp, however. If, fi, I have to pick up one child and the other doesn't want to go along, I try to make it as pleasant for the relucntant child as I can. I take my role as adult seriously and I don't abuse that. I am a realist and have been parenting for nearly 18 years. Some surprising things have come up that did stump me.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I voted for consensual living and non violent communication. I believe nothing is all black or white, and I am still not sure if mutually agreeable solutions can be found in every.single.situation I am going to encounter as a parent -- however, I strive in every interaction with our daughter to treat her as I would want to be treated -- we don't do punishments or rewards of any kind, we don't shame, yell, hit (goes without saying), time-out, reward charts, "if you do this then you can do that"s or anything like that. We don't manipulate or coerce, threaten, or impose boundries on her -- I should mention though that we do expect her to respect our boundaries "you may not hit mama, it hurts my body and it is not respectful to my body, you may hit _____ or ______" She seems to respect this --- not the first time of course (which is completely developmentally normal) but with a consistent, even, respectful reaction, she has come along wonderfully.

I explain how the world *generally* works --- i.e -- "people don't generally go to the park naked, how does ____ or ____ or ____ sound?" and I find that my daughter trusts my judgement in these situations.

I have never run into a situation where force was *neccessary*, so we have never forced her to do anything -- and I am thankful for that and trust that it will most likely continue -- as she is generally pretty easygoing and seems to understand that dh and I have every intention of meeting her needs and wants as we also meet our own.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

I see all of those things on a continuum that can change over time as one learns more and has the time and energy to implement new discipline philosophies. In other words, when I first came to MDC, I practiced only mainstream discipline (I never spanked my kids, though) because that's all I knew. Then, as a result of reading things here, I learned of completely foreign concepts to me - like the hazards of using praise. So after learning of that and seeing the wisdom of it, I began to implement it at home.

And so on and so on. At this point in time, I am still very much learning about GD. I don't necessarily expect I'll ever get to the consensual living end of the rainbow, but I can't completely rule it out. When you learn better, you do better.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, none of the options really fit me, partly because I can never for the life of me figure out what GD is or isn't. Most people IRL think I am super GD, waaay too spoily of my kid. Then I come on here and I feel like a hardcore iron-fister.









I am very, very AP. I definitely don't do consensual living or non-violent communication.







"Violent" communication is one of our primary sources of humour around here, and my kiddo is in on the game along with everyone else.

I aim for the gentlest solution. However, I do believe that mama is the authori-tay, and that that is how it should be. I do time-outs. I promise sweets for good behaviour when I am desperate.







That is how I got thru 2 hours of work at a legal office with a 3 year old at my feet. Promise of sweets, excellent strategy.

Dunno really where I fall...


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## EllenC (Oct 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fly-mom* 
I consider myself GD. I am somewhat mainstream, but with mostly AP tendancies. I did do one decidedly non-AP thing w/dd, so I can not, by definition, be in the AP club. I'll leave it at that...

I am very GD though, with leanings toward CL. I do feel that we can not be completely CL, but it a nice ideal to strive for, and it colors my interactions w/dd quite a bit. I very rarely yell and I am very easy going about a lot of things (especially now that I have quit my job!). I try to encourage independence by letting dd make her own decisions and I do try to let her learn by experience when safe. Needless to say, I don't spank. I tried time outs briefly, but abandoned them very quickly.

My most useful parenting "mantra" for this age is this: AVOID POWER STRUGGLES!

How weird! I feel I could have written this post. Particularly your mantra. That was probably the first realization I had that put me on the path to seek out more information that led me to GD. I had no idea it existed. I started out being a mainstream parent because that was how I was raised and it was all I knew. But once my DD got to be 15 months or so and started the normal behavior of asserting her will, I realized that power struggles were a trap to avoid because no one won. And at that age, there were so many other possibilities with diversion and the like because their attention span is so short or at least easily diverted.

And for all of you who feel bad for not being GD all the time, give yourself a break!







None of us are perfect. I think what is important is your goal. And if you find you slipped, and your child is old enough, I think it is a good idea to talk about it later. About how you did something that was not right and that you are sorry and what you should have done instead. My DD really seems to appreciate it and respond to it. She's 2 1/2.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

can't answer because I'm not sure if I should say what I actually DO, or what I aspire to do? I aspire toward CL and NVC. But in practice I end up yelling and occasionally throwing something (never at a person). I've been know to hit pillows and bang doors.


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## warriorprincess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Individuation* 
ETA: I think that there should be a "I practice attachment parenting, but feel that GD is too permissive, although I do not spank or yell."


That would describe me.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

(deleting this sentence. It wasn't what I really wanted to get across)
GD has nothing to do with permissiveness. You can have high expectations and GD.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedWine* 
I voted "AP and GD," but the real truth is that I am AP and striving to practice GD. I fall short all the time, but I am getter better (even if by tiny increments...).

This is me too.


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## Realrellim (Feb 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
You missed out one category:
I _try_ to practice gentle discipline and generally succeed, but fail spectacularly every now and then.
That would have been mine.

Yep.

Avoiding power struggles is one we're working on. DD is currently in a phase where she doesn't want DH to change her diaper or take her to the potty or put her in the bathtub (seriously--he's always given her a bath, but lately she insists that I have to put her in the bathtub and later, when she's done, take her out) or put on her clothes or whatever if I'm anywhere in the house. I'm trying to balance meeting her needs (whatever crazy need she has to have me do _everything_ even on evening and weekends when DH is home with the fact that I feel like I'm going to end up locked in a padded room if this keeps uup one more day.







: Deep breaths, deep breaths.


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## KA29 (Jan 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Well, none of the options really fit me, partly because I can never for the life of me figure out what GD is or isn't. Most people IRL think I am super GD, waaay too spoily of my kid. Then I come on here and I feel like a hardcore iron-fister.









i mainly lurk but this cracked me up because that's my experience too.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KA29* 
i mainly lurk but this cracked me up because that's my experience too.









It's interesting, for sure. I don't call us unschoolers because every now and again I say "Hey, people, can we 'do' some math here, please, just so I know you know?" (where is that tomato throwing emoticon?) and "Man, I want to read you something about the Aztecs. Indulge me, ok? You might even like it"

I can't call myself CL for the same reason. I have to have room to tell an exhausted child, "Come on, baby, let's just go home now. This day is done for us", and scoop us up and go home.

I figure if I start to think i have all the answers for all situations and all personalities, I should just hang it up. Life is a process, a learning curve and sometimes the kindest thing to do is decide for a child the next best course of action, even if it's not the perfect one.

I feel totally comfortable with my style of respectful parenting and hsing. The last think I want to do is argue over whether I should want my child to know history, or whether it's time for the toddler to get some help getting into a carseat at the end of a long day.


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

Quote:

It seems very likely to me that calling GD, as a whole, too permissive, would be against the UA.
This really seems like a way to shut down any productive discussion. I further elaborated in my post to specifically NOT call GD permissive as a whole:

Quote:

in general I find many of the examples of GD I read about overly permissive for my style.
I think GD, when used by some parents, works wonderfully. And I'm all about high expectations - I think that is the strongest foundation for helping our children learn how to behave. That's why I'm here - to learn from these parents! But many examples held up as "GD" seem way too permissive for me and my style of parenting. Not saying they are bad or wrong, just that they don't work for me.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

It just seems to be against the whole purpose of this board to say "GD is too permissive." It is obvious, even by some of the pp's that any type of parent can be permissive- mainstream, even spankers, can be too permissive at times.
As a GD'er, I feel that I am more likely to consistently NOT be permissive (when used in a negative, you let your kids do get away with everything, way).
GD is my passion. I am anti-punishment/rewards, I feel that ds's desires/opinions/feelings are just as important as mine are, and that ds deserves to be treated with respect.
But I would definitely not consider myself permissive. I don't "allow" actions that are likely to harm others, or that is likely to disturb others (he, generally, acts in a way that won't cause harm or disturb others).
I do not feel like ds controls the house, I don't feel like i have to walk on eggshells to keep him happy. I don't even particularly like the phrase "pick your battles" because I try to always tell ds when he is doing something that I don't like (or when I want him to do something), I don't just grumble to myself because I'm sure he won't listen anyways... Now, if it does not involve likely immediate harm to someone, I usually let him *choose* how to deal with the information. Most always, he will choose to do whatever it is that is agreeable with me.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I voted consensual living and non-violent communication -- but after reading all the posts, I think ap/gd is probably more accurate. And even then, I'm not going to claim I never blow it and yell or anything. I saw my vote as more of a description of my beliefs and aspirations than a description of what I ALWAYS acheive.

I guess I haven't done enough reading on consensual living and non-violent communication: I honestly thought that it meant you avoid coersion as much as possible; not that you'd just leave your older child waiting, indefinitely, for you to pick her up 'cause you just can't bring yourself to put your toddler in the carseat 'till she's ready. I honestly can't say I've dealt with that issue: I avoid car travel as much as possible when I have a little one who doesn't like carseats (actually, my babies've seemed okay with the seats as long as I've been next to them and able to pop my long boob into their mouth, but it's not something I can do while driving -- YET ... maybe if I breastfeed for the next twenty years and scrap my bra, huh? ... so I pretty much don't drive if I don't have to).

I've also seen the horrid, rotted teeth of a man who was never made to brush as a kid, so I do insist on cleaning teeth at least once a day before bedtime. As one attached parent said, sometimes you have to ask yourself, "How will my child feel about my decision to coerce (or not coerce) her to do this when s/he's an adult?" With a few health and safety issues (especially with toddlers), I feel okay about coersion (if it's the ONLY way it'll get taken care of) -- well, no, I don't FEEL okay but I can live with myself -- because I honestly believe this is what my child will have wanted me to do when she's old enough to understand.

Having said that, I realize people have used this rationale to justify some really bad practices (i.e. "Someday you'll THANK me for beating you with this belt"); I agree with Alfie Kohn that we need to practice reflective parenting. As I've grown, I've learned some things I thought were urgent can really be allowed to slide... I.E. my oldest has curly hair that tangles easily and needs periodic brushing -- but it doesn't always HAVE to happen in the morning.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Thismama, I'm







because I sometimes think I'm kinda hippie, but mostly average, until I come here and see how fringe I really am.







I stay way sheltered, I think. It just isn't something I think about a lot. I do tune out the other mamas at the park though - that helps!









I voted the last one. I'll explain why if I have time...

First, I wanted to address that to me this is _not_ a spectrum on a scale or continuum.

"Permissive" means that I have some nexus of control - philosophically, I mean - to allow my child(ren) certain freedoms or not. I do have, as all parents do, pure physical dominance since I'm bigger. But I do not IMO have a right to allow or disallow DS a right to his bodily, mental, emotional, or spiritual integrity.

"Setting boundaries" also carries a lot of the same problem for me, though I most assuredly "set boundaries" - _about what is OK to *my* person_.

I do not "set boundaries" around DS that conflict with his person. That would also mean I have some power over him that I don't, to allow or disallow his freedoms that are inherently his.

So I can't agree that I'm just on a different part of a spectrum to those ideas. To me they are paradoxical. It's not that I "permit" or don't "set boundaries". I believe those ideas to be, I dunno, not real? Non-existant? So how can I do them or not do them?

OK, now to another







...

I'm really surprized at all the feeling inadequate in terms of CL, and aspiring to CL etc... I guess because to me it's not an end, but a means. I say I'm CL, but in no way is that a claim of perfection!! We have issues in my home, we have disagreements, and arguements... I don't see CL as an all-or-nothing proposition, or that if you have strong emotions or frustration that you "fail". It doesn't mean that you are happy, smilie, and relaxed all the time - though IME, approaching things from CL ideas help increase the times that mama will be relaxed.

I'm really not perfect in any way. But I couldn't any more separate my belief that my child(ren) have fundamental rights to self-determination than I could spank. So even though our family has problems and difficulties, I can't just say, "Oh well, I'm inadequate! Forget DS's integrity, I'll just *_insert hot CL topic here_*."

I'm not saying what anyone has to do in their house - that would also be a little paradoxical. But _to me_, I can't throw out my view, my feelings of what violates and what facilitates, just because I'm a human with bagagge. In fact, I honestly have found that keeping in line with CL has reduced my stress (and whole family's), takes less time, and keeps me way saner. Well, as sane as I'm gonna be.









I dunno, I hope that clarifies a little what you're looking to understand OP.







I'm really not trying to give anyone any hard time - just explaining my thinking on this one...


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## Moochie Mamma (Jan 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sylith* 
The most honest option for me would be, "I practice attachment parenting and aspire to gentle discipline, but I'm not very good at it."









: This also describes me.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I *very* rarely yell or lose my temper. I've never struck a child, in 17 yrs of parenting. I am very patient. I do not punish. I am probably one of the most 'CL' people I've even known. lol But I still won't use the term. It's why I have never accepted the CL list invite.

I have known people who say they are CL or TCS and they are not, imo. But because they 'strive' to be, they call themselves that. I don't 'lose it' much, but to me, if you are losing it frequently (something TCS and CL people often say happens, although they do not often say what happened), something is wrong. I've seen TCS people give and give and negotiate and negotiate, and not always happily. TCS says to err on the side of the child, not the parent. So that does mean, to use a cliched TCS example, that the parent wets herself waiting for the child to get out of the carseat. I've seen parents grow resentful.

Foe example, and I have witnessed this--Letting a little child scream herself hoarse in a panic, or fall asleep in a heap because you are trying to talk 'soultions' and 'compromise' to an exhausted child about whether she wants to get in the car seat and go home, is, imo , doing that child a huge stressful, emotional dis-service. The child's agony is frequently prolonged to the point of abuse, ime.

Lettting one's need to be 'CL' (or whatever) can (not saying it must) get in the way of the true needs of child, (which is to be parented in a loving way, even when they are overwhelmed) and is about the need of the parent, not the true need of the child.

The child's right to be parented in a loving, caring, thoughtful way goes far beyond 'negotiation'' and words. While I live non -violent communication and consensual living, I am not CL. There is no room in such a theory for a parent to get right to the heart of a child's need, however that needs to happen.


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## Individuation (Jul 24, 2006)

As I said in my previous post, I really really REALLY think there needs to be an option on here stating "I practice attachment parenting but am stricter/more traditional about discipline." I think the idea that GD is the AP way, and anything else is "mainstream," is erroneous and silly. I don't really practice any "mainstream parenting techniques," but GD isn't something I think would work for my family.

(Obviously, this wouldn't include spanking or yelling, which IMO are totally non-AP).


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

UUmom, I would also say that those situations are not what they are claiming. But I don't agree that the only options for a melting down child is either force or continued negotiation that is hurting the child.

And not using the bathroom to continue a negotiation with a melting-down child is not in my understanding of CL either... it's just









Because those people you cited are not living it all that well, how does that mean that the principle of child-rights is too idealistic or not possible in some way? This seems a little out of focus to the issue to me.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Individuation, I'm a little confused as to what exactly you think GD *IS* and what you disagree with, or think wouldn't work in your home.

From the "GD forum guidelines" sticky

Quote:

Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.
the rest of the post is about how hitting is never a solution.


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## Can Dance (Sep 18, 2006)

well I practice GD and I consider myself to be a hard ass mom. when I state something, I expect it to be done. if it doesn't get done....I help it to get done. I make my words mean something. I get off my butt. That is the difference between using punishment as a means to an end (if you don't put away your toys I will spank you, not suggesting anyone is suggesting that), but punishment is completley unrelated to whatever is at hand. if my child doesn't do what I am asking her, I am going to assign positive intent and teach her how to do it. If am wrong about the positive intent, then oh well, its more for my sake than for hers anyway.
so to me the easiest way to think about it is: what do I want? how am I going to accomplish this? and if I was a punitive parent, what would I do (threaten something unrelated), I don't want to do that, so what are my options....getting off my butt.
so that is what I do.

from a relative newbie.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

I'm GD but I don't let my child do whatever she wants. I use time-outs where I am with her. Not often, but it happens. We have rules.
I am curious, if you don't spank and you don't yell--what do you do that doesn't fall in the GD category?
GD isn't unparenting. It's DISCIPLINE that's gentley done.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

GD comes quite easily to me, thank goodness...I don't say that to toot my own horn, because I'm fully aware that it's a gift rather than something I made happen myself. However, the AP part of it is a little more challenging for me. I grew up in a highly mainstream culture, and I'm definitely the most AP mama in my family, though that's not saying much. We don't have a family bed per se, but I do have B in a bassinet next to me and he ends up sleeping with us half the night anyway, since I just nurse while dozing. My DS1 sleeps in his own bed in his room, and while I sling B often, I also am not at all opposed to using a bucket to hold him while I run in to drop H off at Mother's Morning Out. So, I don't feel comfortable calling myself AP, but I definitely practice GD and feel strongly about it.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Arai wrote--Because those people you cited are not living it all that well, how does that mean that the principle of child-rights is too idealistic or not possible in some way? .--

I didn't say anything about idealistic. I am not sure how to respond to that.

I agree that people who say they are practicing CL aren't really, perhaps. I don't see CL as different from TCS, either. And I don't see in real life 'good' TCS or CL (or whatever the name) working any better (but often worse, ime of observation) than your basic gentle and respectful parenting.

And if you are saying that what I am seeing isn't true CL or TSC (which I see as one in the same), I suppose you may be right, but those people are identifying as such. I would also agree that perhaps many people don't know how to put into practice the theories we're talking about.

But again, I simply do not understand this polarization between what MDC calls GD and repsectful parenting and all this *stuff* that has us debating for a thousand posts whether parents wanting to pee is a need that should take precedance over waiting for a child to be negotiated out of a car seat.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Darn, where's the option for "I aim for GD, but sometimes I lose my temper and I yell way more than I should!"?

I'm not so sure the term "AP" really means much after the baby/toddler years- have YOU ever tried to put a 12yo in a sling?


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I'm stealing a moment to post, so I can't address everything... Just wanted to mention that I wasn't addressing you about the idealism, UUMom...









That was about other posts.

Probably can't get back to this discussion for a while... Happy Holidays all!


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## Caden's Mom (Jul 27, 2006)

This is me too with DS (who's still a baby). I strive for GD and I've been very gung-ho (sp) about AP for the past 10 months. HOwever, I'm getting to the point where I'm not as AP as I used to be.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I actually found the AP much easier than the GD. Well, actually, for a long time I thought I was GD because I thought it just meant you didn't spank. I was pretty much GD, except that as my oldest grew past the toddler stage I was sometimes taking away priveledges. Within the past year, I've totally moved away from punishments (and rewards) and have embraced unconditional parenting.

In his book "Unconditional Parenting," Alfie Kohn gives a lot of good advice which I believe helps parents be as CL as possible (possible for each individual parent: some parents, I think, could become totally CL by following this advice). I'm paraphrasing here and don't have the book in front of me, but here's my understanding: Kohn advises parents to be reflective: rather than allowing ourselves to get desensitized and accept coercive practices that are distasteful to us because we feel we have to, we should continue to let ourselves be upset when we act in ways we don't like. I feel if I keep letting myself get upset about being coercive, and reflect on what happened, this will drive me to keep trying to figure out ways to avoid doing the same things in the future. Kohn says we should reconsider our requests, not be too rigid, and make it our "default" response to always say yes to our kids' requests unless we have a REALLY good reason for refusing. He also advises arranging our lives so we don't have to be in a hurry, since time constraints are what cause most parents feel they have to impose their will on their children.

I don't think Kohn is totally CL -- he does say some health and safety issues are non-negotiable, but encourages us to keep reflecting and reconsidering our ideas on how to handle these things and also to problem-solve with our kids to find solutions that work for all; he shares how his infant daughter hated diaper changes and he learned she preferred if it didn't happen right after she woke up -- but I feel his UP book has helped me make some major leaps in my thinking and I'm much much closer to CL than I was a month ago.


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## ZaMasmom (Nov 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Destinye* 
I picked the AP/GD (*but have a hard time not yelling sometimes) thats my intention anyhow









HEHE, that is where I fall too. It's hard though with a spirited child who has been stuck in the "NO" phase for 4-ever!!








This too shall pass......


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira* 

"Permissive" means that I have some nexus of control - philosophically, I mean - to allow my child(ren) certain freedoms or not. I do have, as all parents do, pure physical dominance since I'm bigger. But I do not IMO have a right to allow or disallow DS a right to his bodily, mental, emotional, or spiritual integrity.

"Setting boundaries" also carries a lot of the same problem for me, though I most assuredly "set boundaries" - _about what is OK to *my* person_.

I do not "set boundaries" around DS that conflict with his person. That would also mean I have some power over him that I don't, to allow or disallow his freedoms that are inherently his.

So I can't agree that I'm just on a different part of a spectrum to those ideas. To me they are paradoxical. It's not that I "permit" or don't "set boundaries". I believe those ideas to be, I dunno, not real? Non-existant? So how can I do them or not do them?

I was debating whether to bold the whole thing, or just quote







Thank you for phrasing how I feel so well







:

One thing that interests me... Once in a blue moon I "lose it" and yell. It could be at DH. It could be at DS. It could be at my cooworker.

However i never thought that the mere fact of yelling could deem me inadequate GDer? CLer?

I voted the last one.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *irinam* 
One thing that interests me... Once in a blue moon I "lose it" and yell. It could be at DH. It could be at DS. It could be at my cooworker.

However i never thought that the mere fact of yelling could deem me inadequate GDer? CLer?

Yes, since none of the options have the word "perfect" in them (in which case I counldn't have chosen anything), I took the question to be more about my basic philosophy which is really the picture of who I am learning to be, not the picture of what I always acheive.


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