# Healing the Gut Tribe - June!!!



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Wow, *I* get to start this thread, too??? :-D

It's June!!! Finally a new thread







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

The only way I know it's a new month is because somebody always starts a new HTGT thread.

Anybody have any comments about this:

The last 3 days dd1 has had a semi-formed poopy. Yipeee! (This has only happened a few times in her short little life.) I have been out of CLO for her and just today started it again. Well, she had a very mushy poopy again. Is this a result of the CLO?


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

subb'ing


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

annikate--I don't why the CLO would cause mushy poops, but who knows? Sorry, I'm not much help!

I'm re-posting this from the May thread cuz I still need answers...

"Can teething cause an eczema flare-up? I wonder if it is possible that the teething and not the goat yogurt is causing the flare-up. (Side note: now I'm not even sure if it is eczema or not. It is more little red bumps so maybe it is the yeast rash again, although the colloidal silver I sprayed on this morning appears to have made it worse. Now DD's poor little butt crack is bright red--I don't think I've ever seen it that red before.)

Anyone know how much evening primrose oil I should be taking to help with DD's eczema?

And can sunlight make DD's eczema worse? I've been trying to get some sun on her because I read the Vitamin D can help with eczema but her face always looks worse after she gets some sun (and she's not getting burned).

What are common symptoms of teething, anyway? The only thing DD's been doing differently is having trouble going to sleep at night. She hasn't been cranky or anything (yet)."


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What are common symptoms of teething, anyway? The only thing DD's been doing differently is having trouble going to sleep at night. She hasn't been cranky or anything (yet)."

My son always seems to have one really red, hot cheek when he's teething. Maybe this has something to do with your daughter's eczema flaring up?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

For my dd teething mostly effects her sleeping and makes her want to chew on anything she can get her hands on. She seems to particularly like cell phones.

So I e-mailed the Houstons guy. He said that he thinks my pain is caused by the enzymes doing some damage to my gut and I should quit all enzymes for a couple of months and then start back on zyme prime and see how it goes. Sigh. I just wanna get better.

Here's his e-mail.

Quote:

I'm not sure, but I think the high-dosing with the EM product may
have done something.
Probably best to stay off all enzymes for the next couple of
months, then try the zyme prime again.
It is not normal for enzymes to cause pain of any sort. I am
especially suspicious of the serrapeptase-containing products as
it is a bacterial enzyme, not fungal.

Devin Houston

I think I'm just going to concentrate on getting a cultured drink with every meal now and leave it at that. I'll keep giving dd and dh the enzymes for now, probably.

Oh and I think I'm getting an appointment with a new Dr for dd. She sounds pretty amazing and hopefully will have some good insight. I'm just frustrated with the wait and see attitude of the Dr's we see right now. Plus the Dr that we love from the family practice we go to is quitting so now is a good time to shop arround anyhow.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







The only way I know it's a new month is because somebody always starts a new HTGT thread.

Anybody have any comments about this:

The last 3 days dd1 has had a semi-formed poopy. Yipeee! (This has only happened a few times in her short little life.) I have been out of CLO for her and just today started it again. Well, she had a very mushy poopy again. Is this a result of the CLO?

I have started giving CO and CLO to my dog and noticed that her poops were less well formed. I have heard that one side effect of too much fish oil is diahrea so I think you are onto something. Can you try a lower dose and build it up slowly? That may fix the issue or give it in divided doses throughout the day? I know Dr sears recomends flax oil for constipation and I'm sure that is for a similar reason.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

:


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Oops, I posted this in May before I realized it was June!

Is there any reason to suspect that my _very_ delayed ovulation is related to my new way of eating (SCD)? I'm about 4 days late, which is unprecedented. I never did get the last hcg quant after my miscarriage 2 months ago - and I haven't given it a second thought until now because my cycles got regular again, and it just seemed so hysterically unnecessary at the time. But I'm suspecting stress or the diet before I"m suspecting an incomplete MC anyway. Any thoughts? I've been slightly paranoid about inadequate B-Vitamins with having a grain and starch-free diet, but I haven't been taking a B-supplement.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I posted in may first too. I started today and things have gone well. At what point can I expect die off symptoms? what symptoms are usually experienced?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I had my heart set on making homemade ice cream with the cream from our whole milk (re: BTVC "Commercially prepared ice cream is not allowed. However, there are many wonderful recipes for homemade ice cream."), but then I see that she says that "Cream is illegal as it contains lactose. Cream can be added to milk and then fermented to make SCD™24hr yoghurt as the lactsose will be used up in the fermentation. Cream has less lactose than milk and the more fat it contains the less lactose it has." I guess her idea of homemade ice cream is different from mine









So my question: How close to ice cream can we get on SCD? Can you ferment _all cream_ for 24 hours, use it as your ice cream base, and get a decent product? Anyone experiment with this?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
I posted in may first too. I started today and things have gone well. At what point can I expect die off symptoms? what symptoms are usually experienced?

Not everybody has die off symptoms. The only die-off symptoms I've had are upset stomach--three episodes of major upset stomach with diarrhea, and an occasional slightly upset stomach. I've had an episode right after each time I've done the intro diet, and one other time. I think www.enzymestuff.com has a list of die off symptoms somewhere--they will still be applicable even if you aren't doing enzymes.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I had my heart set on making homemade ice cream with the cream from our whole milk (re: BTVC "Commercially prepared ice cream is not allowed. However, there are many wonderful recipes for homemade ice cream."), but then I see that she says that "Cream is illegal as it contains lactose. Cream can be added to milk and then fermented to make SCD™24hr yoghurt as the lactsose will be used up in the fermentation. Cream has less lactose than milk and the more fat it contains the less lactose it has." I guess her idea of homemade ice cream is different from mine









So my question: How close to ice cream can we get on SCD? Can you ferment _all cream_ for 24 hours, use it as your ice cream base, and get a decent product? Anyone experiment with this?

I have fermented all cream for 30 hours. It is too rich for me so I mix it 50/50 w/ whole milk yogurt. It makes yummy ice cream. Esp fruit flavors.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

xposted from the NT thread (I'm taking the lazy road today







)

Soooooooooo, if the gut flora is an ecosystem unto itself, is there really a point to ridding oneself of all bad bacteria/yeast, or are they part of that balance? Can't good bacteria turn bad if not kept in check?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
xposted from the NT thread (I'm taking the lazy road today







)

Soooooooooo, if the gut flora is an ecosystem unto itself, is there really a point to ridding oneself of all bad bacteria/yeast, or are they part of that balance? Can't good bacteria turn bad if not kept in check?

The point isn't to get rid of all the bad bacteria and yeast, but to give the body a chance to get everything back in balance--I believe the "correct" ratio of bacteria is 15% bad, 85% good, and that yeast is always present to some degree, but the good bacteria keep it from growing too much. I assume when your body is functioning properly it automatically keeps everything in the right balance (as long as it is not messed with by antibiotics, processed food, etc etc). Hopefully that makes sense...


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
So my question: How close to ice cream can we get on SCD? Can you ferment _all cream_ for 24 hours, use it as your ice cream base, and get a decent product? Anyone experiment with this?

I've never done it, but I do like frozen yogurt, so I'd give it a try for sure. I can only guess it would be like a super rich version of frozen yogurt. Just thinking about the possibility makes me








Let us know how it turns out!


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
The point isn't to get rid of all the bad bacteria and yeast, but to give the body a chance to get everything back in balance--I believe the "correct" ratio of bacteria is 15% bad, 85% good, and that yeast is always present to some degree, but the good bacteria keep it from growing too much. I assume when your body is functioning properly it automatically keeps everything in the right balance (as long as it is not messed with by antibiotics, processed food, etc etc). Hopefully that makes sense...

Thanks caedmyn - yep, that totally answered my question


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

How do I know when to increase the amount of CO DD and I are taking? I've slowly gone from .5 tsp to 1 tsp in myself, and .25 tsp to .5 tsp in DD.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

JaneS,

My DD is 2.5. Before I just thought it was raisins but just today she had a loose poopie with bits of broccoli & asparagus from last night.

Can anyone recommend a good book to start with?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm sure Pookietooth will be here any minute reminding me of when I "made" her make frozen SCD yogurt and her response was
















The 24 hr. milk yogurt is pretty tart. You can drip it and then make ice cream with the thickened less tart version or ferment cream, which is WAY yummy as ice cream. But then again, I liked the tart version just fine... I add egg yolks, honey and a tablespoon of vanilla.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I have fermented all cream for 30 hours. It is too rich for me so I mix it 50/50 w/ whole milk yogurt. It makes yummy ice cream. Esp fruit flavors.









Thanks _sooo_ much for the advice - I wouldn't have thought to ferment for so long!







: Haven't sprung for an ice cream maker yet - I wanted to see if it would be SCD-friendly before buying it. Will have to start saving my pennies......We have quite a little dairy operation going here, I just made butter last night! I don't think I drained it well-enough though, cooking with it wasn't quite as non-stick as conventional butter....

Small relapse reaction today







I can't believe that it's from goat yogurt, since I'd been doing that since Saturday. Could be cow yogurt, since I started that yesterday. Could be goat cheese, started that on Monday........
Please be the cheese, please be the cheese.....







: Going to drop the cheese over the weekend and continue on cow yogurt.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
JaneS,

My DD is 2.5. Before I just thought it was raisins but just today she had a loose poopie with bits of broccoli & asparagus from last night.

Can anyone recommend a good book to start with?

Hmmm, well those are pretty advanced foods for the body to break down. Fibrous foods are difficult for humans b/c we do not make the enzyme cellulase. Otherwise her stool is firm and dark brown? Just the sleeping issues and skin issues you are most concerned about? Any other reactions to foods that you notice?

I like Karen DeFelice's book best for description of leaky gut, "allergies" and the gut/behavioral connection:
www.enzymestuff.com
(she has 2 but they are both the same with diff titles)

What about cod liver oil? What's her diet like otherwise?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Oops, I posted this in May before I realized it was June!

Is there any reason to suspect that my _very_ delayed ovulation is related to my new way of eating (SCD)? I'm about 4 days late, which is unprecedented. I never did get the last hcg quant after my miscarriage 2 months ago - and I haven't given it a second thought until now because my cycles got regular again, and it just seemed so hysterically unnecessary at the time. But I'm suspecting stress or the diet before I"m suspecting an incomplete MC anyway. Any thoughts? I've been slightly paranoid about inadequate B-Vitamins with having a grain and starch-free diet, but I haven't been taking a B-supplement.

Have no idea but Pat was right, you need to be on folic acid like yesterday.

(Although it irritates me to no end that the folic acid mantra is the one thing the med. establishment latches onto when there are so many other nutrients which are just as crucial to a babe's development AND do cause birth defects if seriously deficient! My favorite vit. A for ex. but of course we know you got that covered.







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
For my dd teething mostly effects her sleeping and makes her want to chew on anything she can get her hands on. She seems to particularly like cell phones.

So I e-mailed the Houstons guy. He said that he thinks my pain is caused by the enzymes doing some damage to my gut and I should quit all enzymes for a couple of months and then start back on zyme prime and see how it goes. Sigh. I just wanna get better.

Here's his e-mail.

I think I'm just going to concentrate on getting a cultured drink with every meal now and leave it at that. I'll keep giving dd and dh the enzymes for now, probably.

Oh and I think I'm getting an appointment with a new Dr for dd. She sounds pretty amazing and hopefully will have some good insight. I'm just frustrated with the wait and see attitude of the Dr's we see right now. Plus the Dr that we love from the family practice we go to is quitting so now is a good time to shop arround anyhow.

I've heard that yeast causes the "teethies" too. Lots of reports in ASD kids with yeast issues who are older and well out of teething time.

It must be inflammation in your gut that is causing the pain. You've never had blood in your stool?

That's interesting about Devin Houston's comments about serrapeptase!
http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussio...opeptidase.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Anyone know how much evening primrose oil I should be taking to help with DD's eczema?

And can sunlight make DD's eczema worse? I've been trying to get some sun on her because I read the Vitamin D can help with eczema but her face always looks worse after she gets some sun (and she's not getting burned).

Good question re: epo. I forgot if Leo Galland's book _Superimmunity for Kids_ addressed it... can you check that? That is where he talks about how some kids need diff oils. (and I know it's because of the enzyme conversions that are able or not able to be taking place)

DS always overheats and usually never sweated. It seems to be more about getting hot that triggered any flares rather than the sun. He always seemed better in the summer. He always got strangely overheated, like he would be playing at a friend's house, running around and always gets red hot cheeks.

But today I noticed he was sweating and I was so happy!








I'm hoping that it's a good sign of I don't know what, but better than just getting hotter and hotter... ?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
How do I know when to increase the amount of CO DD and I are taking? I've slowly gone from .5 tsp to 1 tsp in myself, and .25 tsp to .5 tsp in DD.

She's going to be getting some from bm too remember. I'd stop at her amount for now and increase yours


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That's interesting about Devin Houston's comments about serrapeptase!
http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussio...opeptidase.htm

Ok, I read that and I am whirrling with confusion.







You are an enzyme-geek.
































Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I've heard that yeast causes the "teethies" too. Lots of reports in ASD kids with yeast issues who are older and well out of teething time.

Are you saying that yeast causes teething type issues? That would be fascinating to hear, as ds is very orally sensitive.

Pat


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Are you saying that yeast causes teething type issues? That would be fascinating to hear, as ds is very orally sensitive.

Pat

Yep, I've seen it in my DS and heard tons of stories from other parents (controlling yeast and oral issues then disappear)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Ok, I read that and I am whirrling with confusion.







You are an enzyme-geek.
































Pat











If only I can just figure out how to give my DS higher amounts of proteases without him bouncing off the walls. All my geekiness is for naught!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
It must be inflammation in your gut that is causing the pain. You've never had blood in your stool?


Ummm... Actually I've been having issues with blood in my stool for a while now. Always bright red so I assumed hemoriods and I've been too chicken to go to the GI Dr my internist refered me to.







: My other idea was that it is my endometriosis invading my bowels since it is usually just at af time that I get it. In fact it happened the other day before af for the first time ever. Usually it is right after af leaves the building.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yep, I've seen it in my DS and heard tons of stories from other parents (controlling yeast and oral issues then disappear)

Guess that means we aren't controlling the yeast yet. It gives me hope and it doesn't to hear this. Hope that we might get to the bottom of it. And despair cause I've been thinking that her teething was almost done.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

That's interesting about Devin Houston's comments about serrapeptase!
http://www.enzymestuff.com/discussio...opeptidase.htm

Urg. I'm not taking virastop and only took it for a short time at the very begining of doing enzymes. These issues came up long after I stopped it.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

just making sure i'm subbed as i hunt and peck one handed using the other hand to keep an echinacea compress to the eye with conjunctivitis b/c i am *not* going on antibiotics !!
has anyone else battled an odd infection (i have never in my life had conjunctivitis) after beginning to kill off yeast? I'm hoping this just means my body is mounting a healthy immune response!







though i know it more likely an indication od stress as we are moving an dd has stopped sleeping well.

any tips for conjunctivitis welcomed!







:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Hey, I don't remember being "made" to make frozen SCD yogurt, but we did make some, and it was OK, but I found that it gave me migraines. DS likes it, though, so I oughtta make it again sometime just for him. I've used pure cream made like yogurt, and half cream and half milk, and both are pretty darned creamy. Like Jane said, add egg yolks and some honey and vanilla, and it should turn out good. Ours stayed kind of like soft serve, which was fine with ds as he doesn't remember "real" ice cream.

Hey, dalai_mama, I had what I thought was pinkeye, or at least super red eyes, a few weeks ago, which I think may have been die off (or just NYC dirty air, as we were visiting there). I used homeopathic pinkeye eye drops, and it seemed to go away pretty fast (but we were also back home in the relatively clean Seattle area).


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

caedmyn said:


> Quote:
> 
> Can teething cause an eczema flare-up?
> fwiw, dd's eczema was always worse while teething--especially anywhere her saliva touched her skin.
> ...


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

I forget who it was that was investigating Lyme Disease, but on an herbal remedy group I belong to, someone recommended colloidal silver. Don't have any more details, but some others have inquired about it, so I may have an update if you're interested.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Subbing









JaneS.

Can I pick your brains please?

You mention blood in the stools and pain.

Just recently I noticed blood in my stools, and it followed massive gut pain, and gas.

In the last month I've had chronic lower back pain, and front lower abdomen pain, and find the only way I get pain relief is a hot water bottle.

Like you, no way am I going for a referral, or even to the doctor. I know what sort of a gravy train that lands up on.

My husband thinks this is all my fault, as it started when I upped my green smoothies in a big way AND added into the mix, chilean grapes.

BUT I also had a short spell of this when our grapes were ripe and I was eating them as well.

I removed anything with wheat, but that hasn't improved things. So I'm going backwards and looking at how to get even more basic. Which is scaring my husband somewhat, so I'm trying to cover the knowledge bases so that he won't be so upset.

I've just bought the book you suggest at Amazon.com.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:

Hmmm, well those are pretty advanced foods for the body to break down. Fibrous foods are difficult for humans b/c we do not make the enzyme cellulase. Otherwise her stool is firm and dark brown? Just the sleeping issues and skin issues you are most concerned about? Any other reactions to foods that you notice?
Her stools vary. Sometimes they are firm and a medium brown and other times they are very loose. We went through a bout of constipation & started feeding her more prunes but she really hasn't had those in a while. She is also quite gassy. She has what we call "Man toots". Thinks its funny to do in the bath.

She does the CLO (Nordic Naturals at the moment) and sometimes I give her a probiotic & when I can yogurt. Just lately she's started to get circles under her eyes. Her diet is ok. I try but she's 2.5 so its tough. She doesn't eat a lot of junk food, though.


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## sebrinaw (Jan 28, 2002)

Hi Ladies: I am wondering if there is one enzyme that is better to take? I bought this one yesterday http://www.sisu.com/en/products/orga...s/multienzymes
Also wondering how to take it. The bottle says take one with every meal. Should I give my kids half that dose?

We started our diet yesterday. We are upping our intake of yogurt. We split between the 4 of us 1 litre. I just added a bit of apple cider to it and we drank it, yum!!! Do we need an acipholus supplement if we eating that much yogurt?

I have decided to take the diet slow. I am going to allow some rice if needed. I also need to kids to be able to eat most fruits as they love them.

Thanks for the support!!!
Sebrina


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
any tips for conjunctivitis welcomed!







:

Breastmilk is best.









If you can get your hands on some (anyone's







) breastmilk and squirt some in your eye several times a day for a few days to a week, that should do it. Just keep it refrigerated and fresh each few days, if you aren't using it from the "tap". I had some kind of red/pink eye infection and the opthamologist just said good hand washing, and don't rub/touch it. I didn't do drops or anything. You could also try some of those eye solutions that are for soothing irritation from contact lens, but they have chemicals.

Pat


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Quote:

any tips for conjunctivitis welcomed!
Are you nursing? Anytime I am having eye itchies or redness or anything I just keep putting expressed milk into it and it gets better.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Mometezuma, your sig line is too long.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Mometezuma, are you taking any anti-inflamatory drugs for pain? They can cause irritation of the bowel. Grapes are supposed to be high in natural anti-inflamatory properties. I know that they are very high in salicylates and we avoid them on the Feingold diet. Perhaps there is a correllation. I am assuming the blood is red, not old black tarry. I hate to say it but the cure-all for gut pain is Pepto-Bismaul, on an acute basis only. I had Montezuma's Revenge







in Cancun and thought I would die for the abdominal pain, gas, etc. The Pepto cured it with one or two doses.

Pepto does have some salicylates in it though and that can cause its own issues if taken regularly. But there is something in it that addressed my gas pains. It sounds like the mechanical fiber, or perhaps the pesticides are irritating the bowel, imnsho. Chilean grapes are very, very high in pesticides. So, we do not eat them from December to May when US grapes are unavailable. I'd quit the grapes and see if things improve.

Another consideration is that fish oil does thin the blood (more free bleeding from irritated "wounds") and I don't know the doses that you are taking, or if that has changed recently.

Oh, and you might try some "Gripe Water" which is just fennel and ginger. It is the best natural cure all for gut/stomach issues. Or, try adding feenel and/or ginger to the Green Glop. There are issues if you eat tons of ginger, I believe, but I don't think most people could stomach too much.

You might also try massaging lavender in a clockwise direction onto the abdomen. I don't know if it is the lavender oil topically or the aromatherapy that has a positive effect on abdominal discomfort. I don't know acute homeopathy, but I am a big fan of that route too. It helps one to heal yourself.

I think it is the pesticides.

Pat


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

: subbing


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
(Although it irritates me to no end that the folic acid mantra is the one thing the med. establishment latches onto when there are so many other nutrients which are just as crucial to a babe's development AND do cause birth defects if seriously deficient!

AMEN sister!

This type of compartmentalization I notice all the time now. I just read an exerpt from Omnivoires Dilemma, and the author was talking about what a uniquely American perception it is that we have to have scientists in a lab tell us what is good for us and what is bad for us - he tied this in with our nation not having a food tradition of our own, so we don't have a collective nutrition "memory". I'd always wondered what in humans made us latch onto food _components_ as _good or bad_, and his suggestion that it's an American idea is pretty interesting.....Anyway, TESTIFY (said in a southern drawl you'd hear at a tent revival)!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
AMEN sister!

This type of compartmentalization I notice all the time now. I just read an exerpt from Omnivoires Dilemma, and the author was talking about what a uniquely American perception it is that we have to have scientists in a lab tell us what is good for us and what is bad for us - he tied this in with our nation not having a food tradition of our own, so we don't have a collective nutrition "memory". I'd always wondered what in humans made us latch onto food components as good or bad, and his suggestion that it's an American idea is pretty interesting.....Anyway, TESTIFY (said in a southern drawl you'd hear at a tent revival)!























A friend just turned me on to this book - it's VERY interesting & so relevant. (I want his new book too!)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well for now I am going to assume DD's rashes/eczema are teething related and not goat yogurt related









Goat yogurt question: for those who make it, how thin is it supposed to be? I've made 3 or 4 batches so far, and they're all very runny. The latest batch is only very slightly thicker than the milk itself. It is tart, although not as tart as I had expected from everyone's descriptions, and it smells/tastes like yogurt.

TMI question: what color is "normal" for stools? Mine have been kind of orange lately--not bright orange, orangish brown I guess. I have been eating quite a bit of butternut squash, could that affect the color?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
TMI question: what color is "normal" for stools? Mine have been kind of orange lately--not bright orange, orangish brown I guess. I have been eating quite a bit of butternut squash, could that affect the color?

Yes, I believe so. Carrots in quantity do this to us.

Pat


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Subbing









JaneS.

Can I pick your brains please?

You mention blood in the stools and pain.

Just recently I noticed blood in my stools, and it followed massive gut pain, and gas.

In the last month I've had chronic lower back pain, and front lower abdomen pain, and find the only way I get pain relief is a hot water bottle.

Like you, no way am I going for a referral, or even to the doctor. I know what sort of a gravy train that lands up on.

My husband thinks this is all my fault, as it started when I upped my green smoothies in a big way AND added into the mix, chilean grapes.

BUT I also had a short spell of this when our grapes were ripe and I was eating them as well.

I removed anything with wheat, but that hasn't improved things. So I'm going backwards and looking at how to get even more basic. Which is scaring my husband somewhat, so I'm trying to cover the knowledge bases so that he won't be so upset.

I've just bought the book you suggest at Amazon.com.











As much as it pains me to say to any woman, but I think your DH is right. (However, you have an exceptional one.)









I don't think a dr. would connect it with your green glop but I certainly would. The oxalic acid in raw beet greens, chard and spinach is very irritating to the digestive tract. I think it's indeed possible that you have eaten so much as to cause inflammation.

I would pull all those greens out and even the raw fruit for a while and stick to some foods that will be soothing to your gut and easy to digest. And some raw fats and cod liver oil to help heal. Let me know if you want to figure out some more foods that will help.

I forget what your glop recipe consists of, but also greens in the Brassica family are best cooked or fermented to reduce goitrogens too.


----------



## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

well we are now in day 2. day well went well. I now am hungry, but nothing sounds good except eggs and fruit. my head is a little hazy feeling too. My dh isnt quite all on board yet. He thinks he can sneak in not legal foods and then it will just take longer for the healing to happen. The main thing he is having trouble with is his energy drinks (red bull) I told him this isnt like a lose weight diet (cheat and it will take longer to lose the weight) He needed to follow it fully or it wasnt going to help him. I am correct on this arent I?


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







oxalic acid in raw beet greens, chard and spinach is very irritating to the digestive tract.

<snip>

but also greens in the Brassica family are best cooked or fermented to reduce *goitrogens* too.

?????How do you know this stuff.









Yep, I am in the presence of a nutrition god.









Pat


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
?????How do you know this stuff.









Yep, I am in the presence of a nutrition god.

















Nope, not I, this is straight from another one of my nutrition bibles: _Nourishing Traditions_.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
well we are now in day 2. day well went well. I now am hungry, but nothing sounds good except eggs and fruit. my head is a little hazy feeling too. My dh isnt quite all on board yet. He thinks he can sneak in not legal foods and then it will just take longer for the healing to happen. The main thing he is having trouble with is his energy drinks (red bull) I told him this isnt like a lose weight diet (cheat and it will take longer to lose the weight) He needed to follow it fully or it wasnt going to help him. I am correct on this arent I?

Absolutely.

If you are trying to change gut flora, continuing to feed them sugar will keep the bad guys alive. If you want to increase your minerals and improve your health, the phosphoric acid in soda will continue to pull them out.

My DH is exactly the same way with his gut problems, and why they have now continued for years and years.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Well for now I am going to assume DD's rashes/eczema are teething related and not goat yogurt related









Goat yogurt question: for those who make it, how thin is it supposed to be? I've made 3 or 4 batches so far, and they're all very runny. The latest batch is only very slightly thicker than the milk itself. It is tart, although not as tart as I had expected from everyone's descriptions, and it smells/tastes like yogurt.

TMI question: what color is "normal" for stools? Mine have been kind of orange lately--not bright orange, orangish brown I guess. I have been eating quite a bit of butternut squash, could that affect the color?

Goat yogurt is quite thin due to the casein protein molecules being smaller than cow's. They just cannot support a thick gel matrix that the probiotics make. However, it should be very tart to eliminate all lactose. Which starter are you using? I had a lot of problems with Progurt.

Orange veggies only effect stool color if you are not digesting them properly.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Nope, not I, this is straight from another one of my nutrition bibles: _Nourishing Traditions_.

Yes, teacher, I shall read the nutrition bible.









Pat


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
AMEN sister!

This type of compartmentalization I notice all the time now. I just read an exerpt from Omnivoires Dilemma, and the author was talking about what a uniquely American perception it is that we have to have scientists in a lab tell us what is good for us and what is bad for us - he tied this in with our nation not having a food tradition of our own, so we don't have a collective nutrition "memory". I'd always wondered what in humans made us latch onto food _components_ as _good or bad_, and his suggestion that it's an American idea is pretty interesting.....Anyway, TESTIFY (said in a southern drawl you'd hear at a tent revival)!

















this made me literally laugh out loud.

That is very interesting and somewhat true I guess... although I would blame more our food manufacturers and their marketing. In any competitive environment, you have to have a good and an evil. And "foods" that are exclusive to one manufacturer are able to be sold for their exclusive profit. Therefore it is beneficial for them to brand certain whole foods that anyone can produce as evil (and cheap processed branded food as good).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *scubamama*
?????How do you know this stuff.









Yep, I am in the presence of a nutrition god.































ahem . . . she is a god_*ess*_


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Goat yogurt question: for those who make it, how thin is it supposed to be? I've made 3 or 4 batches so far, and they're all very runny. The latest batch is only very slightly thicker than the milk itself. It is tart, although not as tart as I had expected from everyone's descriptions, and it smells/tastes like yogurt.

Mine was pretty runny - I used mine more as a smoothie base than as custard-type yogurt. I worry about this as well - is the runniness a sign that it's still lactose-heavy? For the record, my raw cow yogurt turned out more firm, and when I made it in a quart jar (instead of the Stalton container) it came out runny again









ETA: Ah, Jane just answered this. Yes, even my runny yogurt tastes tart. But is it tart _enough_? (she asks with a raised eyebrow)


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*






















ahem . . . she is a god_*ess*_









My Puritanical roots are showing. I need to see my hairdresser.









Actually, I believe that our compartmentalizing is associated with our Western philosophy of good and evil. Have I mentioned my favorite book today?







Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintance?







It is about the Western cultural process of seeing everything as discrete *parts*, rather than as a *wholebeing*. It isn't unique to advertisers. It is our cultural need to define everything with myopic (read "scientific") examination of *parts* as that which defines the whole.

Pat, (it doesn't take much to get me started on this subject







)

I am supposed to be cleaning the garage.







:


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Goat yogurt is quite thin due to the casein protein molecules being smaller than cow's. They just cannot support a thick gel matrix that the probiotics make. However, it should be very tart to eliminate all lactose. Which starter are you using? I had a lot of problems with Progurt.

Orange veggies only effect stool color if you are not digesting them properly.

Great...so I shouldn't be eating squash, either? I've been making stir frys but had some carrots show up this morning so apparently I can't handle stir fried veggies, either--I stir fried them for like 15-20 minutes to soften them up, too. And if I'm not digesting squash, what are the chances I'm not digesting the well-cooked strawberries and rhubarb I use in a smoothie? They don't show up but they're pureed so they wouldn't.

I really don't think the goat yogurt is any tarter than plain commercial yogurt (I've only tried Stoneybrook Farm organic yogurt, though). I've used yogourmet starter and a commercial goat yogurt for starters.

If uncooked greens can irritate the gut, what about super green food powders? I was thinking about getting the GoL one eventually.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

In the most recent issue of Science magazine, some scientists sequenced for microbes found in human feces (neither of the study individuals had been on antibiotics for at least a year). The human intestinal microbiota contains 10 to 100 trillion miocrorganisms and their collective genome contains at least 100 times as many genes as the human genome. They found an amazing array of microbe. They weren't sequencing the genomes of the microbes - they were, however, looking to see what genes are present, which microbial species/strains they might come from, and then mapping functions to those genes. Our gut flora contains genes for metabolism of glycans, amino acids and xenobiotics in addition to gene for methanogenesis and for the MEP pathway (the latter was better represented that previously known). They researchers plan to continue their work to look at the effect of age, diet and pathologic states on the gut microbiome of humans living in different locations. I wonder if they want volunteers?

Read with caution - it is filled with lots of "what's that?" terminology and it is really only preliminary data to a bigger broader study down the road (I find *that* particularly maddening).

Layperson news piece: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...1-ArticlePage3

Link to abstract at Science magazine: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../312/5778/1355


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Getting ready to go out of town for the weekend, so don't talk about anything exciting, m'K?









<sigh> I long for the days when a weekend getaway meant eating in restaurants all weekend and trying new foods. Today I have a cooler packed with plain grilled chicken, cod liver oil, my parade of supplements, fruit, veggies, roasted turkey, and.....salad dressing. So that I can behave like a normal person and order _something_ in a restaurant without worrying about what crap is in it, I am bringing my own salad dressing. I have leaky gut, hear me roar!!!

Started thinking more about my little relapse - I wonder if it's related to my homemade butter not being drained well enough. It's awfully wet and the things I have cooked in it have stuck more than I would expect, indicating some _very_ illegal buttermilk. I really hope it's not the cow yogurt......or the SCD illegal prenatals I'm taking that I would hate to give up because I love them







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ummm... Actually I've been having issues with blood in my stool for a while now. Always bright red so I assumed hemoriods and I've been too chicken to go to the GI Dr my internist refered me to.







: My other idea was that it is my endometriosis invading my bowels since it is usually just at af time that I get it. In fact it happened the other day before af for the first time ever. Usually it is right after af leaves the building.

I guess that would certainly suggest a hormonal connection. But whether the pain and the blood and inflammation is all connected is the issue to try to find out about. Wouldn't you know if it was hemmoroids?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Getting ready to go out of town for the weekend, so don't talk about anything exciting, m'K?









<sigh> I long for the days when a weekend getaway meant eating in restaurants all weekend and trying new foods. Today I have a cooler packed with plain grilled chicken, cod liver oil, my parade of supplements, fruit, veggies, roasted turkey, and.....salad dressing. So that I can behave like a normal person and order _something_ in a restaurant without worrying about what crap is in it, I am bringing my own salad dressing. I have leaky gut, hear me roar!!!

Started thinking more about my little relapse - I wonder if it's related to my homemade butter not being drained well enough. It's awfully wet and the things I have cooked in it have stuck more than I would expect, indicating some _very_ illegal buttermilk. I really hope it's not the cow yogurt......or the SCD illegal prenatals I'm taking that I would hate to give up because I love them







:

You really need to avoid suppliments with iron in them. Iron really feeds the bad guys and is really rough on your gut. I'm assuming your prenatal has iron?

I take a b-complex with extra folic acid instead of a prenatal. I take other stuff too but that is to keep those bases covered. I'm also trying to get up the courage to start putting my raw liver into my morning smoothie. When it first arrived I had to freeze it for the 14 days. It has now been about a month. Guess it is time to try it...


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I guess that would certainly suggest a hormonal connection. But whether the pain and the blood and inflammation is all connected is the issue to try to find out about. Wouldn't you know if it was hemmoroids?









Well my Dr looked and didn't see anything but she said it could be further inside. Also I tend to be itchy there but assumed that is the yeast.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
In the most recent issue of Science magazine, some scientists sequenced for microbes found in human feces ...

Layperson news piece: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...1-ArticlePage3

Great find Jennifer! That is worth quoting here to save and to emphasize.

Quote:

Bacteria are so important to key functions such as digestion and the immune system that we may be truly symbiotic organisms -- relying on one another for life itself, the scientists write in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

Their findings suggest that studying bacteria native to our bodies may provide important clues to disease, nutrition, obesity and how well drugs will work in individuals, said the team at The Institute for Genomic Research, commonly known as TIGR, in Maryland.

"We are somehow like an amalgam, a mix of bacteria and human cells. There are some estimates that say 90 percent of the cells on our body are actually bacteria," Steven Gill, a molecular biologist formerly at TIGR and now at the State University of New York in Buffalo, said in a telephone interview.

"We're entirely dependent on this microbial population for our well-being. A shift within this population, often leading to the absence or presence of beneficial microbes, can trigger defects in metabolism and development of diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease."

Scientists have long known that at least 50 percent of human feces, and often more, is made up of bacteria from the gut. Bacteria start to colonize the intestines and colon shortly after birth, and adults carry up to 100 trillion microbes, representing more than 1,000 different species.

They are not just freeloading. They help humans to digest much of what we eat, including some vitamins, sugars, and fiber. They also synthesize vitamins that people cannot.
I often think that our gut bacteria has a lot to do with metabolism and why certain people can eat a lot and not gain weight and others can't.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Great...so I shouldn't be eating squash, either? I've been making stir frys but had some carrots show up this morning so apparently I can't handle stir fried veggies, either--I stir fried them for like 15-20 minutes to soften them up, too. And if I'm not digesting squash, what are the chances I'm not digesting the well-cooked strawberries and rhubarb I use in a smoothie? They don't show up but they're pureed so they wouldn't.

I really don't think the goat yogurt is any tarter than plain commercial yogurt (I've only tried Stoneybrook Farm organic yogurt, though). I've used yogourmet starter and a commercial goat yogurt for starters.

If uncooked greens can irritate the gut, what about super green food powders? I was thinking about getting the GoL one eventually.

Really you don't need to avoid a food you aren't digesting. Just know it isn't doing much for you nutrient wise. If it is bothering you, then avoid it, if not and you like it and it makes your life easier, keep eating it and figure your gut will figure it out sooner or later. Mircomanaging on this diet will drive you nuts. The issue isn't the foods, it is your gut. This diet is giving your gut the break it needs to heal but healing doesn't happen overnight.

At least that is my take on this.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
<sigh> I long for the days when a weekend getaway meant eating in restaurants all weekend and trying new foods. Today I have a cooler packed with plain grilled chicken, cod liver oil, my parade of supplements, fruit, veggies, roasted turkey, and.....salad dressing. So that I can behave like a normal person and order something in a restaurant without worrying about what crap is in it, I am bringing my own salad dressing. I have leaky gut, hear me roar!!!









You guys are cracking me up today!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Can someone please post the custard recipe (with DCCC) from BTVC? Just reordered the book since the first one got lost in the mail or some such thing, so hopefully will have it soon. But I do have some farmers cheese that I would like to do something with.

Actually, what else do you do with your DCCC?


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Mometezuma, your sig line is too long.












































Tis not. It comes to one and three quarter lines on my screen.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I use DCCC in spinach pie - yum! And if I make my own dripped yogurt, I spread it on toast like cream cheese.

Here's the custard recipe:
2 eggs
1 c DCCC
2 tsp vanilla
8 tsp honey
dash nutmeg
pinch of salt
Beat uncreamed DCCC and eggs in blender or food processor until smooth.
Add honey, vanilla and salt and beat thoroughly.
Pour mixture into custard cups.
Sprinkle nutmeg on top of each cup.
Place custard cups in a pan 1/2 filled w/water.
Bake 350 for 20 min. Increase to 375 for another ten minutes until browned on top.

I did not use custard cups, but used a shallow ceramic pan and it turned out great.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

having one problem...chocolate. any way to make it legal?


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Mometezuma, are you taking any anti-inflamatory drugs for pain?

I never take anything for pain. I put up with the pain.

Quote:

They can cause irritation of the bowel. Grapes are supposed to be high in natural anti-inflamatory properties. I know that they are very high in salicylates and we avoid them on the Feingold diet. Perhaps there is a correllation. I am assuming the blood is red, not old black tarry.
It was red. But I've not had it since. I've had it before though, and its always accompanies by acute pain, then gas in a big way.

Quote:

I hate to say it but the cure-all for gut pain is Pepto-Bismaul, on an acute basis only.
Which isn't something we have here, but I'd be reluctant to take it.

Quote:

I had Montezuma's Revenge







in Cancun and thought I would die for the abdominal pain, gas, etc. The Pepto cured it with one or two doses.

Pepto does have some salicylates in it though and that can cause its own issues if taken regularly. But there is something in it that addressed my gas pains. It sounds like the mechanical fiber, or perhaps the pesticides are irritating the bowel, imnsho. Chilean grapes are very, very high in pesticides. So, we do not eat them from December to May when US grapes are unavailable. I'd quit the grapes and see if things improve.
Well, it was the grapes I fingered, so I stopped eating them, and though the issues are better ,there is still low-grade chronic pain.

Quote:

Another consideration is that fish oil does thin the blood (more free bleeding from irritated "wounds") and I don't know the doses that you are taking, or if that has changed recently.
I've not taken fish oil for a while now, because I was upping the raw...

The issues started not with the gut, but with huge pain last September, down the long bones of the thigh and upper arms, with pain in the muscles near those bones. Also I wake up with a very sore stiff back. And at times have pressure heads and feel as if my balance isn't right. I went to the doc then, and they ran every test they could think and it only came back with post menopause hormone levels (though my periods came back and are still regular). There was a lull comparative, then it came back again, and this time I think there is lymph involvement, as I have thickening under the right armpit, sensitivity on the inside of the right arm with a feeling of a "block" there, and a sense of fullness under the right jaw. Sometimes the nodes on the back of the neck feel the same way, as do the ones under the bra line.
Just to make things more interesting, I suspect I have a groin hernia.









Quote:

Oh, and you might try some "Gripe Water" which is just fennel and ginger. It is the best natural cure all for gut/stomach issues. Or, try adding feenel and/or ginger to the Green Glop. There are issues if you eat tons of ginger, I believe, but I don't think most people could stomach too much.
I can't eat much ginger, because my blood pressure crashes and its low enough as it is...

Quote:

You might also try massaging lavender in a clockwise direction onto the abdomen. I don't know if it is the lavender oil topically or the aromatherapy that has a positive effect on abdominal discomfort. I don't know acute homeopathy, but I am a big fan of that route too. It helps one to heal yourself.

I think it is the pesticides.

Pat
I think you could be right about the pesticides.

I've upped my vitamin C a bit, so we'll see what happens now...


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

subbing


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









As much as it pains me to say to any woman, but I think your DH is right. (However, you have an exceptional one.)









I really hope so. However, I think there are other issues as well...

Quote:

I don't think a dr. would connect it with your green glop but I certainly would. The oxalic acid in raw beet greens, chard and spinach is very irritating to the digestive tract. I think it's indeed possible that you have eaten so much as to cause inflammation.

I would pull all those greens out and even the raw fruit for a while and stick to some foods that will be soothing to your gut and easy to digest. And some raw fats and cod liver oil to help heal. Let me know if you want to figure out some more foods that will help.
Okay, will do...

Quote:

I forget what your glop recipe consists of, but also greens in the Brassica family are best cooked or fermented to reduce goitrogens too.
For the last two nights I've wilted the spinach and whacked them into pumpkin soup made on a potassium broth... that doesn't seem to be too bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I guess that would certainly suggest a hormonal connection.

What is the hormonal connection to the gut? I've not found that in the books I have... but being the nutrition expert, I'm sure you can tell me


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Re the science article.

Quote:

"We're entirely dependent on this microbial population for our well-being. A shift within this population, often leading to the absence or presence of beneficial microbes, can trigger defects in metabolism and development of diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease."

Why is it, do you think, that doctors feel so blithely about prescribing antibiotics when so many of them trash the very thing your lives are dependant on


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Just to show my ignorance, what does DCCC in the custard stand for?


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Re the science article. Why is it, do you think, that doctors feel so blithely about prescribing antibiotics when so many of them trash the very thing your lives are dependant on

And don't you just love it... some of the microbes contain genes in the MEP pathway - one that they are now looking as a potential drug target for antibiotics. Moreover, the authors imply that one benefit of the future expanded study is yet more drug targets for antibiotics. Go figure.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Just to show my ignorance, what does DCCC in the custard stand for?
Dry curd cottage cheese. AKA farmer's cheese or dripped yogurt.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Just to show my ignorance, what does DCCC in the custard stand for?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Dry curd cottage cheese. AKA farmer's cheese or dripped yogurt.

Oh right. We call that Quark.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
And don't you just love it... some of the microbes contain genes in the MEP pathway - one that they are now looking as a potential drug target for antibiotics. Moreover, the authors imply that one benefit of the future expanded study is yet more drug targets for antibiotics. Go figure.

And knowing so little about the FUNCTION of any of them, they plough on with dollar signs in their eyes?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
What is the hormonal connection to the gut? I've not found that in the books I have... but being the nutrition expert, I'm sure you can tell me









Oh geez... that's the thing about being called a god-dess... I'm now beholden to produce!







:

I meant a hormonal connection with Patty's endrometriosis and gut pain. Endo can invade the intestines.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And God-desses don't screw up as much as I have in the last 24 hours...

I'm running around like a nutcase trying to pack and cook food for vacation. And in the process have ruined a *gallon and a half* of goat yogurt and 4 very expensive cups of macadamia nuts.









Why can't I just learn to slooooooow down already.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)




----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh man, I hate it when Jane goes away.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Oh right. We call that Quark.









Hmmm, does that mean I can buy quark instead of dccc? I know that they sell quark at my coop, which seems to be much more in stock than the dccc.

And thanks for the custard recipe. Course, I see I don't have enough dccc to make it and the last 3 times I was at the coop then didn't have any more.







:


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Alright, all of this enzyme stuff has me beyond confused and probably sad.
Background info. About 4 years ago I had NAET done for some excema that was related to an egg allergy (according to muscle testing). Excema cleared up, and I no longer had an egg intolerance. As far as I could tell, anyhow.
The last few months, I started into healing the gut, but not really hard core. I was using candidase and virastop for about 6 weeks, I did see an improvement, but couldn't really afford to keep up. Plus DD was really acting strange (hyper, sleeping issues), but that isn't really new for her








As I cut back on the enzymes, I started getting HORRIBLE stomach pains that would last 5 hours. It was gas, but really severe, like my stomach was completely rejecting the food I ate. Particularly first thing in the morning. I would vomit and that would cut the pain back to about 3 hours, but certainly would not get rid of it. As far as I can figure, it was all egg related. Since I have removed the egg from my diet, no pain.

SOOO, my question in point or whatever








is that did the NAET just make my body ignore the reaction to egg?? Then the healing re-activated it? Or did the enzymes damage my gut? Or am I just so messed up that there are no real answers?








I completely quit the enzymes last week, once the pain became a regular part of my day. I am scared to start on them again. I am also scared to eat anything new. And I am not eating SCD at all, more NT without meat now.
Sorry this is so long of a post/rant/question/breakdown! Any ideas????


----------



## chevy974 (Jan 6, 2002)

Mamajessica,

I just read on this thread I usually dont post but when i seen your post I had to respond cause I to have the same issues with my stomach that you have. I feel as if My food is rejected or just sits there and ferments. The amt of gas I get is unbeleiveable and hte pain from the gas and bloating is enough to make me NOT eat at all. I joked wiht my kids the other day when it was real bad that I was Baruka from Charlie and hte Chocolate facotry and was soon gonna blow up into a big HUGE ball. My stomach was rock hard at this point. I really dont kow where to start what to do. I cant do to the Dr cause I dont have insurance and cant afford for all the test they wasnt to run me through and worse I wouldnt take the MEDS any way so whats the point. I see a wonderful Chiro who is very very knowledgeable so he helps where he can I seen him yesterday and said my stomach and intestines felt inflammed and yesterday was a good day







. I also have a problem with my illiosacral valve (sp). I just wanted to chime in and let you know you are not alone at all and I know how painful and frustrating it is.

Hugs
amy


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*








Oh man, I hate it when Jane goes away.









OH please, like it happens so often!! Thank you for making me feel loved









Taking my copy of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration to read for the 3rd time and Fourfold Path of Healing. Wanted to get Children with Starving Brains at library but DH is not back from post office yet. Pray for inspiration for me this week!


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Chevy, thanks for the com*miseration*!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Bye bye Jane! Have a good one!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Bye bye Jane! We'll miss you! I hate it when you're gone, too







But have fun!







:


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Taking my copy of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration to read for the 3rd time and Fourfold Path of Healing. Wanted to get Children with Starving Brains at library but DH is not back from post office yet. Pray for inspiration for me this week!









Note to self: Instead of reading the harry potter series for the 8th or 9th time, read stuff by Price to get up to Jane's knowledge level.....


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Well My lurking has taken a different turn. I'm pregnant now with #2







and will continue to lurk through. I'm right now looking for milk Keifer grains. Hopefully this wil be a healthy pregnancy. I'm still working on the candida diet, doing GF ,dairy free ( other than plain yogert and keifer) and vinager free. Complex carbs only ( kinda doing my own thing.)

Anyone had a good pregnancy through this.

I dont have any symptoms other than indegetion, not egzma or allergies ect.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

[

The issues started not with the gut, but with huge pain last September, down the long bones of the thigh and upper arms, with pain in the muscles near those bones. Also I wake up with a very sore stiff back. And at times have pressure heads and feel as if my balance isn't right. I went to the doc then, and they ran every test they could think and it only came back with post menopause hormone levels (though my periods came back and are still regular). There was a lull comparative, then it came back again, and this time I think there is lymph involvement, as I have thickening under the right armpit, sensitivity on the inside of the right arm with a feeling of a "block" there, and a sense of fullness under the right jaw. Sometimes the nodes on the back of the neck feel the same way, as do the ones under the bra line.
Just to make things more interesting, I suspect I have a groin hernia.









Your symptoms remind me of this: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndi...romyalgia.html

My mother suffers from similar issues.


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## chevy974 (Jan 6, 2002)

Mamajessica







.

I started taking enzymes yesterday and even ate a piece of pizza and no stomach pain. I am hoping this is the ticket.

Amy


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Well My lurking has taken a different turn. I'm pregnant now with #2







and will continue to lurk through.

Congratulations p1gg1e! I can guarantee you that your pregnancy will go better than it would have had you not identified the problem.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Well My lurking has taken a different turn. I'm pregnant now with #2







and will continue to lurk through. I'm right now looking for milk Keifer grains. Hopefully this wil be a healthy pregnancy. I'm still working on the candida diet, doing GF ,dairy free ( other than plain yogert and keifer) and vinager free. Complex carbs only ( kinda doing my own thing.)

Anyone had a good pregnancy through this.

I dont have any symptoms other than indegetion, not egzma or allergies ect.

Congratulations! It will only be good for you and your baby to do the diet you describe. Make sure you are covering all your bases nutrition wise. Do you have the Brewer Diet Book? That is a good one to look at and modify as needed to make sure you are getting enough of all the important things.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chevy974*
Mamajessica







.

I started taking enzymes yesterday and even ate a piece of pizza and no stomach pain. I am hoping this is the ticket.

Amy

ARe you taking digestive enzymes? I am still really scared to start the yeast enzymes up again







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well DD had a little bit of blood on her butt twice today when I wiped her (we do EC)







It's been 3 1/2 weeks since the last episode of bloody poop so I was hoping it was gone for good but I guess not. I so hope it isn't the goat yogurt. I told myself before I started the goat yogurt that I would "allow" one episode of bloody poop since it had only been a couple of weeks since the last episode at that point, so I guess I will wait and see what happens. If the bloody poop shows up again in the next week or so I'm going to have to nix the goat yogurt, too.

I feel like this is never going to end. The diet clearly isn't working all that great without probiotics of some sort, and I can't buy the really good probiotic supplement that is $5 a day...I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with my issues forever and that DD will have food allergies forever, too


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Hi caedmyn - I am currently a lurker on this thread but couldn't read your post without say something. I feel your frustration. It is so hard to figure all this stuff out on your own. There is so much information to learn and so many variables. I keep wishing that there were more practitioners who were experts in this area and could help us all to heal. That reminds me. I noticed on pecanbread.com that there are counselors. Has anyone ever used them? But then again... they cost money. There never seems to be enough money. I hope you can find the answers you are looking for.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I've been really reluctant to post here since I've been off SCD, but looks like I'm at square one now (surprise, surprise!).

I went to my ND a month ago, and she told me SCD was overkill for me, and that given my ethnicity (mostly Indian - from India) I needed rice etc.. She said all my prblems were stress related (which I believe) but I don't completley agree with her approach for me. For the first week after the reintroduction of some foods, I had splitting headaches, and the D. returned. It settled down a bit after that, but I'm back to almost exclusively having D. I want to go back to SCD so badly, but my DP has made it clear he would like me to do this under the approval (?) of a Dr.. I'm taking this time to also figure out our finances since I fiund SCD was breaking the bank.

In the mean time, I visited the drop-in clinic close to my house, and asked for a referral to a GI specialist. The Dr. I saw declined because I have no preliminary testing. I have an appointment with an Internist on Tuesday. I need to get my facts together so I can present him my case, but I'm in no shape to do reasearch at this time (I can barely write a message here, and then need to rest for a while because I feel so tired staring at this screen, and my head hurts







)

I'm reasonably sure that the internist hasn't heard of SCD (though he might surprise me, but it's very unlikely), but I really just want to "sell" it to him







Yes, I'm being sneeky, but I'm at the point of desperation, and really need this now for my sanity. I have my food journals from a few months, but I've found I don't keep the journal updated when I feel crappy... I haven't documented in the last month, goes to show how great I've been doing since coming off SCD









So, tell me mamas, what sort of documentation can I provide the Internist as proof that SCD works? (or something along those lines). I'm going to take BTVC along, but I find the book too simplistic to really sell someone on the idea (I wasn't sold by just reading that anyway). I'm going to print off the Canadian list of Dr.'s who are SCD friendly. Will that help? (http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/doctors.html)

There is just so much information out there, that I'm considering just giving him the most important links. Can anyone do my homework for me, and just suggest to be the most informative webpages (specific pages, not entire sites, since he won't have time to look through it all).

Also, I plan on suggesting Enzyme therapy to him, as one course of action. Of course I'll only want to take SCD friendly enzymes







I wonder how open he'll be with that?

Any sort of support would be wonderful, since I'm in worse place now mentally than I remember being in before SCD. *Sigh* I've been graining weight (only grain reintro. is rice, but I eat potatoes occassionally too). My stress levels are still very much elivated. I'm taking up yoga to help with clearing my mind, and I really hope I can go back to SCD -- with everyone in my home being happy about it -- very soon. I need to stop worrying about the money.

I have no idea how to handle speking with conventional Dr.'s. The one at the drop in clinic was very condescending when I told him blood tests for celiacs would be pointless at this time. He was a really ass about it, but he's just one Dr. and I really hope the Internist will be different (in a good sense of course)!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Since my book should arrive sometime this week, and since I have not gotten any better since my initial improvement, I went shopping today to start for real. I actually did buy beef. DD was quite confused when I told her it was for me.

"But Mama, you don't eat meat??"
"Well, I am going to try a little bit to see if it will help my stomach problems."
"But you said that meat isn't good for you."
"Yes...but maybe in this case it is."









I even inquired about bones for stock, but will need to check back on that during the week. I just remembered that I am having a sleep over next weekend (as in only moms!) and probably don't want to be doing the SCD intro then, so I will wait until after that. I figure I can try to prep things this week.

I started 24h yogurt last night, actually following the directions on the website, so I am hopeful it will work out better than before, when it was terribly runny. On that note, DD1 was gobbling up the yogurt I bought for the starter. I bought Organic Whole Jersey Milk Yogurt. Is there any healing value to any commercial yogurt? I would not say that either DD really has any problems, so it is not as if they need to heal their guts, per se. Up until I started all this research for my stomach issues, DD has essentially been ovo vegetarian. I started giving her kefir and now this yogurt. I am hoping it is actually good for her!

Maybe I can work on weaning off of coffee this week. That is going to suck big time.







:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

OK, we have to start the intro again.
I made some NT muffins because of DH and I couldn't resist... also, I was gone all day and when I came home I found out DD had diarrhea- she was eating muffins all day plus goat milk. Her eczema also came back.... my eczema also got worse despite pumping enzymes. Cheating is still cheating even with enzymes. So back to no soaked grains and definietely no milk of any kind. It's never gonna end...


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm sorry to you ladies who are still in the middle of this hell. I remember it vividly and hope that I never have to do it again.

*Siana,*

Based on your time on the diet, if you believe that it was helping you, then you know you need to be on it. If that's the case, I would not pitch the specific diet to a doctor who will know absolutely nothing about it. I would say something like "do you find that elimination diets work for your patients to determine what they are senstive to?" And if the answer is a good one, this can be your elimination diet. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

*caedmyn,*

Don't panic yet. Give it a little more time. You will know soon (like probably tomorrow) if this is not going to work.

*The cost of this diet*
So, besides the very high cost of supplements, what are you ladies spending more money on with this diet? It has been so long since we made the change and I'm used to spending obscene amounts and I have forgotten. Let's work on strategies to save money. But I've never done the SCD, I've forgotten all of this anyway, and I am drinking a kefir soda that is probably a wee bit too alcoholic. But I'll brainstorm with more info (or perhaps when the "soda" wears off).


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
OK, we have to start the intro again.
I made some NT muffins because of DH and I couldn't resist... also, I was gone all day and when I came home I found out DD had diarrhea- she was eating muffins all day plus goat milk. Her eczema also came back.... my eczema also got worse despite pumping enzymes. Cheating is still cheating even with enzymes. So back to no soaked grains and definietely no milk of any kind. It's never gonna end...









I remember "testing" some millet. I ate several servings in one day. I was not ready for it.







s


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

It seems like all I've done on this group off late is just take, take, take







I promise I'll make up some day.

DD had a BM a few hours ago, and she had what seemed to be blood in it. She just had a BM again, and it was D. She said her bum hurt, and when I looked, she has a bright red area around her rectum







:cry

Why? I'm so tired of all this. I was really counting on my DD having no issues, but I've noticed in the past month or so, she's been having softer and softer stools. Could her BMs today just be because of something she's had in the last few days, or is this another long-term, deeper-issues case. Argh. I don't know how you moms do it, but I feel like my head is going to explode. More stress. Just what I need.







: I can't think straight any more. I just can't.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*Water kefir grains*

In the interest of saving money, if anyone would like to try water kefir grains, I can ship to three people on Tuesday. The thread is here. Read especially the last couple of pages for the glowing reviews.

Pay no attention to the fact that I am drinking an alcoholic version right now. It's all about the sugar you put in. And by the way, you can reduce the sugar as much as is necessary. I doubt this is SCD legal since milk kefir is not. The reason for that I imagine is that there is no way to guarantee how much sugar is left after a specific period of time. I let mine brew to almost a vinegar state but I let my son drink it when it's still a bit sweeter.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana,
I printed this for dd'sallergist & brought it along. Bring it to your internist (or better yet, ask if you can send it ahead of time for him to read.)
http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html#prof


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Siana -- is she actually eating reasonably well? My son just turned four and it's just about impossible sometimes. So is this all happening on a really good diet?

And I'm not at all a poop expert







but it could be long-term or short-term. That's what makes all this so much fun.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I remember "testing" some millet. I ate several servings in one day. I was not ready for it.







s
I have been SO wanting to try millet but I know I'm not ready for it either. I mistakenly made some plantain chips the other day (never looking to see whether or not they were legal) and ugghhh . . . they felt heavy in my tummy and made me feel







.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I feel like this is never going to end. The diet clearly isn't working all that great without probiotics of some sort, and I can't buy the really good probiotic supplement that is $5 a day...I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with my issues forever and that DD will have food allergies forever, too







sad
cademyn, I can't remember: Can you not do the yogurt?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EBG*
OK, we have to start the intro again.
I made some NT muffins because of DH and I couldn't resist... also, I was gone all day and when I came home I found out DD had diarrhea- she was eating muffins all day plus goat milk. Her eczema also came back.... my eczema also got worse despite pumping enzymes. Cheating is still cheating even with enzymes. So back to no soaked grains and definietely no milk of any kind. It's never gonna end...







sad
It's tough to be patient w/all this gut healing stuff! I know that the longer I'm away from the things I really can't tolerate, the MORE sensitve I am to them (when I do stray from *fanatical adherence*.) The worst for me was taro root, sweet potatoes and now plantains. Guess I can't handle starch eh?








I really really really want some grains though!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
*The cost of this diet*
So, besides the very high cost of supplements, what are you ladies spending more money on with this diet? It has been so long since we made the change and I'm used to spending obscene amounts and I have forgotten. Let's work on strategies to save money. But I've never done the SCD, I've forgotten all of this anyway, and I am drinking a kefir soda that is probably a wee bit too alcoholic. But I'll brainstorm with more info (or perhaps when the "soda" wears off).

SCD flour is super expensive. It is nut flour and usually at least $6 a lb or more.

Also just eating more fruits and veggies is more expensive than being able to fill up on cheap grains. 1 cup of uncooked rice costs me $.50 and could feed my family supper. 1 cup of uncooked zuccini is $2.00 and might make a serving for me. Eggs are cheap protein but when you are eating/using 1 dozen a day it really adds up.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
*Water kefir grains*

In the interest of saving money, if anyone would like to try water kefir grains, I can ship to three people on Tuesday. The thread is here. Read especially the last couple of pages for the glowing reviews.

Pay no attention to the fact that I am drinking an alcoholic version right now. It's all about the sugar you put in. And by the way, you can reduce the sugar as much as is necessary. I doubt this is SCD legal since milk kefir is not. The reason for that I imagine is that there is no way to guarantee how much sugar is left after a specific period of time. I let mine brew to almost a vinegar state but I let my son drink it when it's still a bit sweeter.

I have been making juice kefir. Grape juice and water. It is pretty good. We call it grape soda.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ditto what Patty said ESPECIALLY the almond flour! And we go through at least 5 pounds a week easy.

Patty, how are the effects of the magnesium doing? (Or can't you tell given your enzyme troubles?)
I started my mag about the same time you did and had the same results.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
cademyn, I can't remember: Can you not do the yogurt?

I really don't know at this point...I started doing goat yogurt 2 weeks ago. DD's eczema flared up again a week later...but a few days later two teeth popped up, so I don't know if the eczema flare-up is the yogurt or the teething. And now with the bloody poop...

I just remember something else that could be the cause of the bloody poop--I started Candidase in between meals a couple of days ago. I know enzymes can be irritating, so I wonder if that can be causing it. Although I have been doing enzymes with meals for about 6 weeks now and DD was okay with those. So the bloody poop could be goat yogurt intolerance...or the enzymes...or just general causes


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Ditto what Patty said ESPECIALLY the almond flour! And we go through at least 5 pounds a week easy.

Patty, how are the effects of the magnesium doing? (Or can't you tell given your enzyme troubles?)
I started my mag about the same time you did and had the same results.

I'm actually not noticing much difference with the mag but I'm keeping it up. MT said that it took her a year to fix her mad defiency so I'm not giving up hope any time soon.

I have laid off the green glop though in fear that it was contributing to my tummy troubles.

I'm feeling off now and my hair is falling out so I think my thyroid is off again. Gonna get that checked tomorrow...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn,
I know nothing about bloody poop but maybe you should give the goat yogurt a little more time. (?) Maybe ff can help you out - they don't do dairy.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I really don't know at this point...I started doing goat yogurt 2 weeks ago. DD's eczema flared up again a week later...but a few days later two teeth popped up, so I don't know if the eczema flare-up is the yogurt or the teething. And now with the bloody poop...

I just remember something else that could be the cause of the bloody poop--I started Candidase in between meals a couple of days ago. I know enzymes can be irritating, so I wonder if that can be causing it. Although I have been doing enzymes with meals for about 6 weeks now and DD was okay with those. So the bloody poop could be goat yogurt intolerance...or the enzymes...or just general causes
































I would stop the candidase and see what happens. That is what caused my middle of the night agony last week. DD never seemed to react to the enzymes but I sure do. And it seems like the longer I go the less of a dose it takes to make me react. Tonight I reacted to 1/3 a zyme prime so I'm quitting for good now.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Didn't someone post something about three months into this being a time for a revisiting to reactions/die off or something like that? We are 3.5 months into this or so and I'm frustrated with our progress lately. I'm also missing potatoes.:









Oh and whoever posted about those Jennies Macoroons! YUM!!! THANK YOU!!! It was such a treat to eat a treat that someone else made. We finished the can of them in like 24 hours.







Now I can't get any more cause I'm sure they have too much honey for us but it was fun while it lasted.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I would stop the candidase and see what happens. That is what caused my middle of the night agony last week. DD never seemed to react to the enzymes but I sure do. And it seems like the longer I go the less of a dose it takes to make me react. Tonight I reacted to 1/3 a zyme prime so I'm quitting for good now.

The problem is (although I guess it's really a good thing???) the bloody poop isn't very consistent. At the worst it was every 3 days. So unless she suddenly starts having bloody poop again every few days, or starts having it every day, stopping something isn't necessarily going to tell me anything. Actually DD reacts to enzymes and I don't. The first time I started enzymes with meals she didn't nap and was cranky until I stopped them. The second time her eczema flared up. So it's like, if I stop enzymes and/or yogurt, and the bloody poop doesn't come back, does that mean one of them caused it, or does it just mean that her gut still was somewhat inflamed in general and it was a more or less isolated incident? That's my problem...


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

My die-off reactions came in waves. At first it was never-ending for about two months and then it was every couple of weeks for months.

I can eat grains now without being disabled, but I still feel over-stuffed and not quite right.

*nut flour*. Dang. That is expensive. I just ate produce and meat. So do you all have a garden or friends with one? I always liked the summer for saving money.

*Magnesium*: some people get relief in days, for others it takes months. A study of POWs found that it took one year.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to post a link to an interesting article that says that antidepressants can help prevent colitis, which is apparently more common among the depressed. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Milk sensitive people, have you tried coconut milk yogurt? I'm thinking about giving it a try. I'll wait till I can find a legal c. milk, add honey and gelatin...
How does that sound?

Cost of diet:
Good quality meat and fish and butter, and fresh veggies (esp. organic) and special items such as tons of nuts, coconut oil, plus the supplements.... I'm spending at least 4 times as much on food as before -when rice,canned beans, vegetable oils and flour is so cheap... The Food giants sure know how to manipulate us into eating white flour, sugar and canola oil....
I don't get the expensive CLO, butter, Bariani olive oil etc etc...- I just can't afford it.
If I started on the raw milk path, it would also add to the budget... but my DH won't let me do that anyway.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Gale Force said:


> My die-off reactions came in waves. At first it was never-ending for about two months and then it was every couple of weeks for months.
> 
> My die-off reactions are pretty much constant. I get relief maybe for a few days to a week at a time and then it gets worse again for weeks. It's been going on for 6 months.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Whoever said die-off last two weeks is lying. At my two week point, I thought it would magically disappear, much like I thought my pregnancy fatigue would magically disappear in the second trimester. Neither happened.

Have you all gotten hooked up with local food co-ops? We have a friend who organizes one so we have been able to go through her. The cost saving is phenomenal. Jane posts about this one which is on the east coast and midwest. And this is the one I go through here in California. You might try calling one based on where you live and ask if there is a co-op near you (or a drop point in the case of United Buying Clubs) and get the contact info for the organizer.

Are any of you part of any other big co-ops like this?

In my co-op we can get just about any food item and organic choices that are often cheaper than conventional items around here. Bulk items are a really great price. So are packaged items it appears. I bet you all would save a lot on nut flours.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks mamas for the great tips. Annikate, I'll print that off for the Dr. as well, and take the book along.

Gale, my DD is eating well. She has a big appetite, and we only give her healthy food options. The only snack food she has is organic blue corn chips seasoned with sea salt







Even that I don't allow her to overdose!

I don't know if this is just a rare incident, but I'm going to keep an eye on her stools, and journal them. I really need to get back in to journaling consistently, because they've helped me tremendously in the past. I don't know why I lack the motivate to do it, when I know how beneficial they are to me.

*Re: Cost of diet*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
...almond flour! And we go through at least 5 pounds a week easy.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Also just eating more fruits and veggies is more expensive than being able to fill up on cheap grains. 1 cup of uncooked rice costs me $.50 and could feed my family supper. 1 cup of uncooked zuccini is $2.00 and might make a serving for me. Eggs are cheap protein but when you are eating/using 1 dozen a day it really adds up.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Cost of diet:
Good quality meat and fish and butter, and fresh veggies (esp. organic) and special items such as tons of nuts, coconut oil, plus the supplements.... I'm spending at least 4 times as much on food as before

WOW! 4x the cost 







Is that consistent with everyone else on SCD?

Because SCD food is very easy to digest (like BM for a child!) I ended up eating a lot more just to stay satisfied. The amount of cooking really got to me as well. So the cost of buying the food is increased, and the cost of preparation is elivated too. Also, I felt I needed more tools to help make preparation easier -- it's not much fun -- not be mention draining -- to manually grate 4 carrots. I think I'll need to get a food processor.

What other tools does everyone here consider essentials on SCD?

I figured out that I wasn't eating enough carbs when I was on SCD intially, which is why I didn't feel enough balance, and my symptoms didn't improve drastically either. I subsisted on very little variety too. I just went with the chepest vegetables, instead o going with variety for more diversified nutrients.

*Re: Supplements*

I also still have very little supplements in my diet. I really feel the need for Mag. and I'd love to get the Brainchild vitamins and/or minerals for Galen. Given that he almost exclusively drinks mama milk (yes, at 20-months-old!), and mama is so depleted, I don't think he's getting sufficient from me. Any one have any thoughts on this?
*
Re: Enzymes*

I'm nervous to think of enzymes again with all this talk of poor reactions to them. I'll field out the topic with the internist anyway and see where it goes. The toughest part of the appointment is making it clear to him that I'd rather approach healing through diet and supplements, not by treating symptoms through allopathic medicine. Also, the enzymes are expensive, and that's always a concern here, especially if I end up quitting them due to a reaction. Hey may be I could buy them second-hand from mamas here who don't use them any more









GTR!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

RE: co-ops/buying clubs:
I am in the process of starting a buying club through Ozark. Prices are good & they have a HUGE selection & lots of drop points.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
RE: co-ops/buying clubs:
I am in the process of starting a buying club through Ozark. Prices are good & they have a HUGE selection & lots of drop points.

That's awesome! I had not heard of that coop, but I'm far from that area. How many families are you getting together? Have you figured out who is going to pick up the order and sort? In this coop of my friend, they rotate who sorts but one person places the order each time.

Anyone else with another coop?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I don't know if this is just a rare incident, but I'm going to keep an eye on her stools, and journal them. I really need to get back in to journaling consistently, because they've helped me tremendously in the past. I don't know why I lack the motivate to do it, when I know how beneficial they are to me.

Try not to worry too much and just watch. It may be fine and the stress isn't helping your gut. Keep being diligent about her diet in the meantime. My son goes through seasons where I just hold my breath but he has come out of them so far. And he's been so picky lately that it's hard to get any nutrition in him.

My latest trick is a "custard drink" (eggnog). I made custard for him but he wanted to drink it before it was baked, so it's started a new thing. 1/2 c raw milk heated to body temperature, 1 egg yolk (fresh, free range from the yard), a bit of honey and vanilla. Mix honey and yolk then add heated milk and vanilla. I wouldn't do this with a supermarket egg. In that case, I'd bake it. (To bake put in baking dish and set that baking dish in a bigger baking dish that has an inch or so of water. Bake at 350 for about an hour until fork comes out clean. With custard I use about 5 eggs and 2 cups of milk or a milk cream combo depending on what I have.)

After typing that I realize it's not SCD legal. You could use cultured milk. I haven't tried that.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I just thought of something: if I am taking enzymes with every meal and still having issues with undigested food, does that mean the enzymes aren't working?

I am also spending more money on food now. I bought a lot of produce before, but I think I am buying more expensive stuff now--lots of avocados, for example, and before we ate a fair amount of potatoes and corn. I'm also buying about 6 dzn eggs a week instead of 2 dzn. I try to go easy on the nuts because they are so expensive. Last month I used about 2 lbs of almonds and 1 1/2 lbs of pecans. I'll probably use more this month, though.

I spend a fair amount on supplements, too, although I've actually found cheaper ways of doing a lot of them. I've found Enzymedica Digest Gold enzymes on eBay for 1/2 the price of buying them online, and I found a between-meals yeast killing enzyme that's similar to Candidase but almost 1/3 the price.

I was spending more time cooking in the beginning, although it wasn't so overwhelming for me because I was already used to a whole foods/NT style of eating. The biggest change was pretty much having to make every meal and snack from scratch as opposed to having muffins, bread, etc premade. I'm used to it, now, though. Actually it's kind of nice right now because DH is doing a low carb diet and is pretty much making his own food. Otherwise it would be a lot more work since I'd have to make a separate meal for him.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am very lucky and have a local coop here that we recently joined. I have found pretty much everything that I am looking for there, but not any nut flours. And I also go to our local green market. In the summer there is a stand with amazingly cheap produce. (like $1.50 for a huge bunch of carrots)

I switched to a mostly whole foods/very little grains and processed foods last summer, so I guess I got used to things then. Right now my sister is visiting us and I don't think that I have ever seen her eat so much. I am just watching her eat up all my produce, etc and a bit like














It is one thing to give it to my DDs and DH doesn't ususally mess with my stuff, and I am just so not used to buying for another very hungry adult. Oh well, trying to take it all in stride.









On a happy note, my yogurt turned out a-ok.







Had a big bowl of it this morning, and feeling tummy stuff, which I take to be a good thing.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I switched to a mostly whole foods/very little grains and processed foods last summer, so I guess I got used to things then. Right now my sister is visiting us and I don't think that I have ever seen her eat so much. I am just watching her eat up all my produce, etc and a bit like














It is one thing to give it to my DDs and DH doesn't ususally mess with my stuff, and I am just so not used to buying for another very hungry adult. Oh well, trying to take it all in stride.









Nice to know I'm not the only one who feels that way! When someone visits it's hard not to be like, "That's MY food!".


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I found a between-meals yeast killing enzyme that's similar to Candidase but almost 1/3 the price.

Would you mind sharing the brand of this. I was thinking that Candidase would be the (one of the) enzymes I would use... still learnin'. I am hoping my BTVC book comes today. Thanks!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Would you mind sharing the brand of this. I was thinking that Candidase would be the (one of the) enzymes I would use... still learnin'. I am hoping my BTVC book comes today. Thanks!

It's Candizyme...I found it at www.vitacost.com, but you could check iherb.com and vitaminshoppe.com to see if they have cheaper prices.

I still haven't read the book







But I am finally next in line at the library for it, so that should change soon.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
That's awesome! I had not heard of that coop, but I'm far from that area. How many families are you getting together? Have you figured out who is going to pick up the order and sort? In this coop of my friend, they rotate who sorts but one person places the order each time.

Anyone else with another coop?

We do UNFI. Not very happy with them right now. We don't get a lot of what we order. They also don't have nut flour at all and every time I order whole nuts it doesn't come in. I get some stuff that way but it isn't always cheaper than at the store either, esp if it is something that trader Joes carries.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
That's awesome! I had not heard of that coop, but I'm far from that area. How many families are you getting together? Have you figured out who is going to pick up the order and sort? In this coop of my friend, they rotate who sorts but one person places the order each time.
Yep, we're going to take turns to pick up and sort. I'll be placing the orders but Ozark has software for you to use so it shouldn't be that much work. I'm waiting on the okay and then I can start using the software.







We're starting off with about 5 or 6 families. Probably won't want it to get much bigger though.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
We do UNFI. Not very happy with them right now. We don't get a lot of what we order. They also don't have nut flour at all and every time I order whole nuts it doesn't come in. I get some stuff that way but it isn't always cheaper than at the store either, esp if it is something that trader Joes carries.

We use Azure Standard here and have that experience - but then, they only carry what is in season so that's why many times you'll orde something on the website and it won't be available. They don't have nut flours, but TJ's seems to have them fairly cheaply (at least comparatively).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Milk sensitive people, have you tried coconut milk yogurt? I'm thinking about giving it a try. I'll wait till I can find a legal c. milk, add honey and gelatin...
How does that sound?

I used the coconut milk powder from wildernessfamily.com - it would have worked had it not been the first time i ever made yogurt. i ended up accidentally contaminating it - don't "peek" into the container to check if it is done or you'll risk ruining the batch as i did. i used the whole bag (about 1lb i think) to make 4 c. of yogurt and did get some good consistency. i think i may have let it culture too long too - i was following the cow's milk 24-hour protocol but i guess it doesn't need to culture that long.

i didn't add anything besides the yogourmet starter culture - and it did seem to get quite gelatinous just doing that.

not sure if the wildernessfamily.com coconut milk powder is SCD legal.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I meant to mention. Did you know that Thai Kitchen makes coconut milk with just coconut and water in it? I ordered some through my co-op for this month. It isn't organic







but it also doesn't have any illegals. I also read on their website that supply problems are why some of it has the illegals in it. You will have to check store to store to see what kind they have in right then. I'm sure it will change case by case.

Their web site is www.thaikitchen.com and it is the pure coconut milk. You can order direct from them if you want to.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay all you NT mamas, I know I can post this on the NT thread but am only lurking right now - - I can hardly keep up here!

I just seperated some yogurt & made whey and cream cheese. I did this once before and threw the cc away because it was too plain. What do I need to add to make it taste better? salt? honey?


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## krankedyann (May 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I just seperated some yogurt & made whey and cream cheese. I did this once before and threw the cc away because it was too plain. What do I need to add to make it taste better? salt? honey?

I do both then make it into a dip. Some honey and cinnamon in it can make a nice fruit dip or spread, although I don't know if it's SCD legal- I'm just starting to learn.

I've got a lot of dip recipes on my website in my sig line. Again, I don't know about if they're SCD legal or not, but I can tell you they're all NT.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay all you NT mamas, I know I can post this on the NT thread but am only lurking right now - - I can hardly keep up here!

I just seperated some yogurt & made whey and cream cheese. I did this once before and threw the cc away because it was too plain. What do I need to add to make it taste better? salt? honey?

Add honey, put over a nut crust, let it set up in the fridge, and call it cheese cake.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Caedmyn, I hope you figure out the bloody poop thing. Is your dd allergic to cow's milk or just intolerant of it? Just wondering. I know that goat's milk is supposed to be easier to digest than cow's milk. But 85-90% of people (I forget the exact statistic) with an IgE mediated allergy to cow's milk will also be allergic to goat's milk.
Since the bloody poop isn't consistent, maybe you could stop one for a week or so and see what happens. Or stop both for a while and then add one back in.
I really hope you find your answers.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm actually not noticing much difference with the mag but I'm keeping it up. MT said that it took her a year to fix her mad defiency so I'm not giving up hope any time soon.

About two years ago, I went to a dance class and the warm up exercises nearly killed me with cramp and muscles that went into clench spasms.

I repeated those exercises last night with NOTHING, and I put that down to getting the magnesium right.

Quote:

I have laid off the green glop though in fear that it was contributing to my tummy troubles.
I've laid off too, and my stomach is better, but not completely right. I think that there was something in the green mix that my system didn't like, and suspect it was the spinach. I'll start again shortly, but use a simpler combination first up.

Quote:

I'm feeling off now and my hair is falling out so I think my thyroid is off again. Gonna get that checked tomorrow...
How did that check out?


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
You really need to avoid suppliments with iron in them. Iron really feeds the bad guys and is really rough on your gut. I'm assuming your prenatal has iron?

Oh Patty!







I feel completely inadequate to make risk assessments anymore. I can feel okay about leaving out starches when I can see that they are doing as much (or more) harm as they might theoretically do good. But I'm so frustrated by the things that I do for myself to help keep myself in better health and then there are all of these asterisks that it's doing harm.








I don't know what decision to make about the prenatals - I don't feel confident about supplementing with only B-vitamins because it seems silly to think that that is the only vitamin/mineral that I'm lacking in giving up starches. On the other hand, I second-guess whether a multi can possibly help with all of the interactions.

I ended up deciding to consult with the nurse/Health Coach that I told you all about. I haven't had the chance to talk with her specifically about what tests she did on the samples I sent her, but she did say that I look okay on the yeast issue and the gut flora issue, but that my calcium reserves are low (surprise) and that I have signs of acidosis and slightly acidic pH. Some surprises, some not. I'll be curious to know what she tested for on the yeast, because I had a "medium" yeast reaction with the spit test.

Given all of the above (as well as indication from Aristocat that I did not clean my butter well enough of buttermilk - THANK YOU!) I'm inclined to stay the course I'm on as long as I recover from my relapse and continue to improve.

Sorry to take up space thinking out loud - I've appreciated when you ladies do the same, it helps me to see your thought process


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Oh Patty!







I feel completely inadequate to make risk assessments anymore. I can feel okay about leaving out starches when I can see that they are doing as much (or more) harm as they might theoretically do good. But I'm so frustrated by the things that I do for myself to help keep myself in better health and then there are all of these asterisks that it's doing harm.








I don't know what decision to make about the prenatals - I don't feel confident about supplementing with only B-vitamins because it seems silly to think that that is the only vitamin/mineral that I'm lacking in giving up starches. On the other hand, I second-guess whether a multi can possibly help with all of the interactions.

I ended up deciding to consult with the nurse/Health Coach that I told you all about. I haven't had the chance to talk with her specifically about what tests she did on the samples I sent her, but she did say that I look okay on the yeast issue and the gut flora issue, but that my calcium reserves are low (surprise) and that I have signs of acidosis and slightly acidic pH. Some surprises, some not. I'll be curious to know what she tested for on the yeast, because I had a "medium" yeast reaction with the spit test.

Given all of the above (as well as indication from Aristocat that I did not clean my butter well enough of buttermilk - THANK YOU!) I'm inclined to stay the course I'm on as long as I recover from my relapse and continue to improve.

Sorry to take up space thinking out loud - I've appreciated when you ladies do the same, it helps me to see your thought process









If it helps any, generally the vitamins in prenatals/multi-vitamins are synthetic and probably not doing you a whole lot of good, anyway. I did take a multi-vitamin during my pregnancy but I don't plan on taking one next time, or a prenatal, either. I plan on doing a good quality multi-mineral supplement as well as a super green food, plus bone broths for calcium (assuming I still can't do dairy or can't find a raw milk source). Just my two cents worth to muddy the waters a little further!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Caedmyn, I hope you figure out the bloody poop thing. Is your dd allergic to cow's milk or just intolerant of it? Just wondering. I know that goat's milk is supposed to be easier to digest than cow's milk. But 85-90% of people (I forget the exact statistic) with an IgE mediated allergy to cow's milk will also be allergic to goat's milk.
Since the bloody poop isn't consistent, maybe you could stop one for a week or so and see what happens. Or stop both for a while and then add one back in.
I really hope you find your answers.

I don't know if she's allergic to cow's milk or not. She started having bloody poop and rashes after I started eating a lot more dairy (that's how I got started on the whole healing the gut thing). But those things didn't go away after I stopped dairy, so obviously there's ore going on than that.

For now I'm assuming the bloody poop was a result of her still not being fully healed. If it happens again in the next week or two then it will seem pretty likely it is a result of either the goat yogurt or the enzymes since it will be happening more frequently instead of less frequently. But since I didn't find a specific cause for her last several sporadic episodes of bloody poop (maybe 3 times in 6 weeks), I'm not going to assume that this one necessarily has a specific cause unless it becomes less sporadic/more frequent. If that makes any sense...


----------



## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Whoever said die-off last two weeks is lying. At my two week point, I thought it would magically disappear, much like I thought my pregnancy fatigue would magically disappear in the second trimester. Neither happened.

Have you all gotten hooked up with local food co-ops? We have a friend who organizes one so we have been able to go through her. The cost saving is phenomenal. Jane posts about this one which is on the east coast and midwest. And this is the one I go through here in California. You might try calling one based on where you live and ask if there is a co-op near you (or a drop point in the case of United Buying Clubs) and get the contact info for the organizer.

Are any of you part of any other big co-ops like this?

In my co-op we can get just about any food item and organic choices that are often cheaper than conventional items around here. Bulk items are a really great price. So are packaged items it appears. I bet you all would save a lot on nut flours.

Does anyone know if UNFI, or any other coops, deliver to the Bay Area in California? Or how does that work... would I have to drive to Auburn to do a pickup? I've been meeting with some people in my community, trying to set up a local buyers club or market, and we're kind of floundering at this point. I'd love to just place orders at one of these places and be done with it. The prices look much better than Whole Foods (aka Whole Paycheck.)

On another note, I've been having increasingly intense cravings for chocolate cake and krispy kreme donuts. Mmm. I've been off sugar since January, on a strict elimination diet (wheat and other gluten grains, soy, corn, nightshade veggies, potatoes, etc.) since March, and on the SCD for a couple of weeks. Most of the time I've been okay with the diet, but man, these cravings are crazy. Of course, I haven't given in to them. I'm telling myself if I can make it until the end of June, I can have a donut or a slice of cake. Maybe by then the cravings will have dissipated. Could this be dieoff? Is this the last hurrah of those buggies?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CAJen*
On another note, I've been having increasingly intense cravings for chocolate cake and krispy kreme donuts. Mmm. I've been off sugar since January, on a strict elimination diet (wheat and other gluten grains, soy, corn, nightshade veggies, potatoes, etc.) since March, and on the SCD for a couple of weeks. Most of the time I've been okay with the diet, but man, these cravings are crazy. Of course, I haven't given in to them. I'm telling myself if I can make it until the end of June, I can have a donut or a slice of cake. Maybe by then the cravings will have dissipated. Could this be dieoff? Is this the last hurrah of those buggies?

I don't know about die off, but you might try making a pecan butter pancake. It tastes faintly chocolately (1 egg, 2 Tbsp. pecan butter, sprinkle of baking soda--batter will be very runny).


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Could someone tell me if making the 24 hour yogurt for the SCD is possible in a yogurt maker? I am thinking that I would need a maker with a thermometer and one that does not have a preset time but I have never even seen a yogurt maker and don't know what settings they come with. I have been doing some research and not really finding an answer.

TIA


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Anyone know much about iodine? I'm trying the iodine patch test thing. You paint a 2x2in patch of iodine on your body somewhere. If it lasts less than 24 hours you are iodine defficent. I did me and dd 2 hours ago. Hers is much more faded than mine. I'm on thyroide meds. Makes me wonder about her...

Also, my Dr thinks that the pain I have been having with the enzymes is my liver. She wants me to take something for liver support. The homeopathic she recomended had wheat starch in is so she recomended an amino acid (I'll have to check which one.) She also wanted to give me nystantin but said I shouldn't take it since it caused dd to have a rash when I used it topically on her 2 years ago.








She also recomended oil of oregano and oil of thyme for yeast as well as a book called the Fat Flush something (diet? program?) She did test my thyroid again as well as my iron. She wasn't happy that I wasn't taking my iron suppliment. I'll get those results in a few days.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Could someone tell me if making the 24 hour yogurt for the SCD is possible in a yogurt maker? I am thinking that I would need a maker with a thermometer and one that does not have a preset time but I have never even seen a yogurt maker and don't know what settings they come with. I have been doing some research and not really finding an answer.

TIA

I make mine in a yogurt maker. Mine is a very simple one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=284507

It fits a wide mouth quart canning jar in it so I make the yogurt in that. I did find that it gets too hot if I let it go 24 hours or longer in the plastic instert that comes with it, but in the glass jar it stays perfect. I actually have been going 30+ hours for my yogurt lately and am thrilled with the results.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Could someone tell me if making the 24 hour yogurt for the SCD is possible in a yogurt maker? I am thinking that I would need a maker with a thermometer and one that does not have a preset time but I have never even seen a yogurt maker and don't know what settings they come with. I have been doing some research and not really finding an answer.

TIA

Yes--I use a Salton yogurt maker you can get on Amazon. It doesn't have a thermometer but I experimented first with a glass jar of water and a thermometer until I figured out how to keep it in the right temperature range (100-110 degrees). It doesn't have an automatic shut-off, either. I use a glass canning jar instead of the plastic jug it comes with. I do have to keep the lid off to keep it at the right temperature, although others who have the same yogurt maker have said they keep the lid on







Oh, and I do sometimes check the temperature of the yogurt after it is done culturing just to make sure everything is still working properly. I'll still eat if it is hotter than I wanted, I just figure it kills the enzymes in the raw milk.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CAJen*
On another note, I've been having increasingly intense cravings for chocolate cake and krispy kreme donuts.

I found a great table that may help to identify the source of cravings - that is, the nutrients you are lacking.

http://www.naturopathyworks.com/pages/cravings.php

If you crave Chocolate, what you really need is Magnesium. Healthy foods that have it: Raw nuts and seeds, legumes, fruits.

If you crave sweets, it's a little more complex (according to this link). You might be really needing chromium, carbon, phosphorus, sulfur or tryptophan. Eating liver (blech) and broccoli would fix all those imbalances.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yes--I use a Salton yogurt maker you can get on Amazon. It doesn't have a thermometer but I experimented first with a glass jar of water and a thermometer until I figured out how to keep it in the right temperature range (100-110 degrees). It doesn't have an automatic shut-off, either. I use a glass canning jar instead of the plastic jug it comes with. I do have to keep the lid off to keep it at the right temperature, although others who have the same yogurt maker have said they keep the lid on







Oh, and I do sometimes check the temperature of the yogurt after it is done culturing just to make sure everything is still working properly. I'll still eat if it is hotter than I wanted, I just figure it kills the enzymes in the raw milk.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
It fits a wide mouth quart canning jar in it so I make the yogurt in that. I did find that it gets too hot if I let it go 24 hours or longer in the plastic instert that comes with it, but in the glass jar it stays perfect. I actually have been going 30+ hours for my yogurt lately and am thrilled with the results.

I use the Salton yogurt maker as well, though I've never tested it to see if it gets too hot.....hmmmm, have to try that tomorrow night, since I'm going to all the trouble to use raw milk.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Also, my Dr thinks that the pain I have been having with the enzymes is my liver. She wants me to take something for liver support.

I'm not sure if this would provide you with strong-enough liver support, but what about Kombucha? Though, having said that, I'm not sure that it's SCD legal......







Oh man, why don't I know this, I've been taking it for _weeks_!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

DD's bloody poop is back today







I'm going to stop the enzymes in between meals since I know enzymes can be irritating. Hopefully it's that and not the yogurt. I wonder if I can keep doing enzymes with meals. DD was fine with those but now maybe she won't be.

This is so discouraging. How am I ever going to kill the yeasties without the enzymes in between meals? I don't think the diet alone has done a thing. The only change I've seen in two months was when DD's bloody poop went away for a while.


----------



## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
I found a great table that may help to identify the source of cravings - that is, the nutrients you are lacking.

http://www.naturopathyworks.com/pages/cravings.php

If you crave Chocolate, what you really need is Magnesium. Healthy foods that have it: Raw nuts and seeds, legumes, fruits.

If you crave sweets, it's a little more complex (according to this link). You might be really needing chromium, carbon, phosphorus, sulfur or tryptophan. Eating liver (blech) and broccoli would fix all those imbalances.

Thank you! This makes sense to me. Hmm, now I want to compare this to all of the testing I had done. I know I was lacking in a bunch of vitamines and minerals.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
DD's bloody poop is back today







I'm going to stop the enzymes in between meals since I know enzymes can be irritating. Hopefully it's that and not the yogurt. I wonder if I can keep doing enzymes with meals. DD was fine with those but now maybe she won't be.

This is so discouraging. How am I ever going to kill the yeasties without the enzymes in between meals? I don't think the diet alone has done a thing. The only change I've seen in two months was when DD's bloody poop went away for a while.

argh, i can't find it now, but MT made a post in some other thread about a mother who detoxed through her breastmilk. maybe this is happening to you and your dd? (and maybe MT will elaborate...)


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CAJen*
Does anyone know if UNFI, or any other coops, deliver to the Bay Area in California? Or how does that work... would I have to drive to Auburn to do a pickup? I've been meeting with some people in my community, trying to set up a local buyers club or market, and we're kind of floundering at this point. I'd love to just place orders at one of these places and be done with it. The prices look much better than Whole Foods (aka Whole Paycheck.)

Call UNFI and ask about their policies. They will have a minimum order and scheduled drop dates in your area. You would do much, much better than Whole Foods, particularly if you all some common things and do splits of bulk items.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Anyone know much about iodine? I'm trying the iodine patch test thing. You paint a 2x2in patch of iodine on your body somewhere. If it lasts less than 24 hours you are iodine defficent. I did me and dd 2 hours ago. Hers is much more faded than mine. I'm on thyroide meds. Makes me wonder about her...

Patty,
I'm only beginning to learn about iodine, so as I find out tidbits, I'll let you know. There are foods that interfere with its uptake and then others that interfere with making thyroxin. I just don't remember what's what.
Amanda


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
This is so discouraging. How am I ever going to kill the yeasties without the enzymes in between meals? I don't think the diet alone has done a thing. The only change I've seen in two months was when DD's bloody poop went away for a while.

I never used enzymes and didn't even use antifungals regularly. It was all basically diet. But that's a longer term prospect.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I never used enzymes and didn't even use antifungals regularly. It was all basically diet. But that's a longer term prospect.

How long? And when did you actually start seeing results?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
How long? And when did you actually start seeing results?

In some ways, I saw them immediately, like at the end of the first month. My coloring was better and my ductal yeast symptoms were finally gone. But I had die-off symptoms that were pretty debilitating for two months, much better after three months, but they would come back in waves every few weeks. After something like six months things were fairly back to normal except, of course, I was still on the diet and stayed on it.


----------



## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Call UNFI and ask about their policies. They will have a minimum order and scheduled drop dates in your area. You would do much, much better than Whole Foods, particularly if you all some common things and do splits of bulk items.

Thank you! It turns out there is already a coop in my neighborhood. This is great!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CAJen*
Thank you! It turns out there is already a coop in my neighborhood. This is great!

Wow! That's great!


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Siana,







so sorry to hear you aren't getting the support you need. I know there are other lists where you can ask about doctors that are SCD-friendly. Check the SCD Canada website http://www.scdcanada.com/ maybe? Try this one: http://uclbs.org/ -- the upper canada lower bowel society. I think the Pecanbread yahoo group may be one, and here is a list of other email lists: http://www.scdiet.org/5community/email.html You can always subscribe "no mail" to the yahoo groups and then post your request with a note to reply directoy to you.


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I ended up deciding to consult with the nurse/Health Coach that I told you all about. I haven't had the chance to talk with her specifically about what tests she did on the samples I sent her, but she did say that I look okay on the yeast issue and the gut flora issue, but that my calcium

all of can be magnesium deficiency issues...

Magnesium is crucial to keeping calcium in the body, and is crucial in keepiing acidity balanced...


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
argh, i can't find it now, but MT made a post in some other thread about a mother who detoxed through her breastmilk. maybe this is happening to you and your dd? (and maybe MT will elaborate...)

For myself, what happened what after the birth of our second one, when he was about 5 months, I got an impacted bowel, which I tried to shift with Psyllium. (Didn't know about using MASSIVE doses of vitamin C in those days) and that made it worse.

Our youngest came out in the most appalling red rash, weepy eyes, and very distressed so in desperation the doctors sent me for a colonic irrigation, which was the most revolting thing I've ever done. I had it done twice, and I will never do that again.

But it did the trick, and within three days our son's rash and weepy eyes had gone and his skin came back to normal.

After that I read quite a bit, and some other friends of mine have found that unless you do it carefully, you can detox through breastmilk.

As to sleeping, neither of mine slept more than 3 hours at night until quite late. The oldest was about three, and the youngest was six. I just accepted that they would wake up and "play" and I lay there with them and 'pretended' to be asleep.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally Posted by Pattyla_
Anyone know much about iodine? I'm trying the iodine patch test thing. You paint a 2x2in patch of iodine on your body somewhere. If it lasts less than 24 hours you are iodine defficent. I did me and dd 2 hours ago. Hers is much more faded than mine. I'm on thyroide meds. Makes me wonder about her...
I think that's using neat iodine painted on as a patch in the instep of the foot at night. If its not there in the morning, then supposedly you need it.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

First of all, thank you Pattyla, caedmyn and Shanna4000! That was precisely the information I was looking for. A couple more question, do you use raw milk, whole, goats? What kind of starter?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I actually have been going 30+ hours for my yogurt lately and am thrilled with the results.

Pattyla, could you elaborate on "thrilled with the results"? Are you talking about texture, thickness, flavor?

Sorry for all the questions and TIA.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
As to sleeping, neither of mine slept more than 3 hours at night until quite late. The oldest was about three, and the youngest was six. I just accepted that they would wake up and "play" and I lay there with them and 'pretended' to be asleep.
MT - dd doesn't WANT to be awake. She doesn't wake up to play or even to nurse all the time, she just wakes. It's reminiscent of the days she was on Reglan.







Like she really wants to sleep but something is interfering with the ability.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

http://www.naturopathyworks.com/pages/cravings.php

chocolate craving = magnesium? How much magnesium is a person supposed to take? No, I don't think its just magnesium.

There are huge amounts of other nutrients in chocolate besides magnesium, so I think that's a bit simplistic.

I still crave dark chocolate, no matter how much

I can't get this site to work properly for me:

www.nutritiondata.com

But in 2004 when I put in Baking chocolate, unsweetened, squares

Serving size: 100 grams

I got this amazing analysis....:

Fats & Fatty Acids %DV
Total Fat 52.3 g 80%
Saturated Fat 32.4 g 162%
4:0 0.0 mg
6:0 0.0 mg
8:0 0.0 mg
10:0 0.0 mg
12:0 0.0 mg
13:0 0.0 mg
14:0 33.0 mg
15:0 0.0 mg
16:0 13300 mg
17:0 ! 100 mg
18:0 18300 mg
19:0 ~
20:0 554 mg
22:0 50.0 mg
24:0 0.0 mg
Monounsaturated Fat 16.1 g
14:1 0.0 mg
15:1 0.0 mg
16:1 undifferentiated 100 mg
16:1 c ~
16:1 t ~
17:1 0.0 mg
18:1 undifferentiated 16000 mg
18:1 c 16000 mg
18:1 t 0.0 mg
20:1 0.0 mg
22:1 undifferentiated 0.0 mg
22:1 c ~
22:1 t ~
24:1 c 0.0 mg
Polyunsaturated Fat 1.6 g
16:2 undifferentiated ~
18:2 undifferentiated 1440 mg
18:2 n-6 c,c ~
18:2 c,t ~
18:2 t,c ~
18:2 t,t ~
18:2 i ~
18:2 t not further defined ~
18:3 0.0 mg
18:3 n-3 c,c,c 117 mg
18:3 n-6 c,c,c 0.0 mg
18:4 undifferentiated 0.0 mg
20:2 n-6 c,c 0.0 mg
20:3 undifferentiated 0.0 mg
20:3 n-3 ~
20:3 n-6 ~
20:4 undifferentiated 0.0 mg
20:4 n-3 ~
20:4 n-6 ~
20:5 n-3 0.0 mg
22:2 ~
22:5 n-3 0.0 mg
22:6 n-3 0.0 mg
Total trans fats ~
!
Total trans-monoenoic fats ~
Total trans-polyenoic fats
Protein & Amino Acids %DV
Protein 12.9 g 26%
Tryptophan 130 mg
Threonine 370 mg
Isoleucine 410 mg
Leucine 695 mg
Lysine 470 mg
Methionine 140 mg
Cystine 225 mg
Phenylalanine 525 mg
Tyrosine 425 mg
Valine 655 mg
Arginine 815 mg
Histidine 215 mg
Alanine 475 mg
Aspartic acid 1270 mg
Glutamic acid 1870 mg
Glycine 505 mg
Proline 880 mg
Serine 530 mg
Hydroxyproline 0.0 mg

Vitamins %DV
Vitamin A 0.0 IU 0%
Retinol 0.0 mcg
Ret! inol Activity Equivalent 0.0 mcg
Alpha Carotene 0.0 mcg
Beta Carotene 0.0 mcg
Beta Cryptoxanthin 0.0 mcg
Lycopene 0.0 mcg
Lutein+Zeaxanthin 38.0 mcg
Vitamin C 0.0 mg 0%
Vitamin D ~ 0%
Vitamin E 0.4 mg 1%
Beta Tocopherol 0.0 mg
Gamma Tocopherol 5.8 mg
Delta Tocopherol 0.0 mg
Thiamin 0.1 mg 10%
Riboflavin 0.1 mg 6%
Niacin 1.4 mg 7%
Vitamin B6 0.0 mg 1%
Folate 28.0 mcg 7%
Food Folate 28.0 mcg
Folic Acid 0.0 mcg
Dietary Folate Equivalents 28.0 mcg
Vitamin B12 0.0 mcg 0%
Pantothenic Acid 0.2 mg 2%
Vitamin K 9.7 mcg

Minerals %DV
Calcium 101 mg 10%
Iron 17.4 mg 97%
Magnesium 327 mg 82%
Phosphorus 400 mg 40%
Potassium 830 mg 24%
Sodium 24.0 mg 1%
Zinc 9.6 mg 64%
Copper 3.2 mg 162%
Manganese 4.2 mg
Selenium 8.1 mcg

Sterols %DV
Cholesterol 0.0 mg 0%
Phytosterols ~
Campesterol 13.0 mg
Stigmasterol 38.0 mg
Beta-sitosterol 85.0 mg

Other %DV
Alcohol 0.0 g
Water 1.3 g
Ash 3.6 g
Caffeine 80.0 mg
Theobromine 1300 mg


----------



## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
MT - dd doesn't WANT to be awake. She doesn't wake up to play or even to nurse all the time, she just wakes. It's reminiscent of the days she was on Reglan.







Like she really wants to sleep but something is interfering with the ability.

Okay...


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
MT - dd doesn't WANT to be awake. She doesn't wake up to play or even to nurse all the time, she just wakes. It's reminiscent of the days she was on Reglan.







Like she really wants to sleep but something is interfering with the ability.

This is my ds exactly. Just a reminder we have not yet started the SCD (still waiting for the book) but the frequent nightwakings and restless sleep are a major motivator for starting this program. On a bad night, ds will take about an hour to fall asleep (around 9pm), stay asleep for 3-5 hours, wake a couple of times from 1-3 am and then he spends from 3-5am almost sleeping but his body can't stop moving. It is not twitching but constant little movements even though he is asleep. Since we co-sleep and he is glued to my side, this drives me nuts. He wakes at 5:30am begging to nurse and usually that's it for sleep. It's so exhausting. If we are really strict with our current food allergy avoidance diet, his sleep does definitely improve.

As an aside but also to do with ds, who is 2, I am really nervous about how he is going to do with the diet. He is the typical picky toddler, doesn't like certain textures or certain foods on certain days. I don't want to starve him. I am also nervous about how badly we will feel once the die-off/adjustment period starts. It feels very scary (but necessary) to commit to doing this and I can see how easy it would be to speed up the stages by adding foods too quickly or stopping altogether. It is quite an accomplishment to stay on it long term.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh how I wish I could get a 5 hour stretch! I've stopped hoping/praying for it though because I only end up disappointed and angry.









SCD has helped tremendously. I don't want anyone to think it hasn't. If I hadn't found this and started it I don't know where we'd be right now. BUT . . . as MT says, "Life is not meant to be lived looking in the rearview mirror."









YK, I thought I came to terms with this last week and had forgotten the revelation I had until dh reminded me tonight: If I believe in my heart that dd is waking so often out of a need to b'feed it almost makes things more tolerable. After all, she's a highly allergic/intolerant babe who eats very little solids at this point. B'milk is by far the best thing for her right now and will help her heal so of course I want her to have it. She's exrememly mobile and has been for a couple of months so she doesn't nurse that much during the day anymore so if this is the only way she's going to get what she needs, the sacrifice doesn't seem all that bad.

Problem is, when I'm awake ALL NIGHT LONG it's very easy to lose sight of this. But . . . it sure helps me keep up with the MCD threads.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

annikate, you're not alone. my ds (only a few months older than your dd) is only now getting in some longer stretches at night. granted, this spring, he fully weaned himself off the bottle at daycare, so now we nurse almost constantly in the evening and at night (no more pumping - yay!). last week was worse than average - he was cutting several teeth i think and nursed every HOUR from 6pm to bedtime (9pm or so) and then every 2.5 hours or so through the night - every night. i could barely think straight at work (which sucked because we were working on a major grant renewal). this week, no more teething - totally different child! he's been getting in a 2 hour nap at daycare (last week it was 1 hour). he's been nursing to sleep (around 9:30pm or so) and then waking to nurse somewhere between 2 and 4am (i don't always look or, if i look, i don't always remember!) and then again a few times between 6am and 7:30am. but like i said, this week is totally different from the pattern last week (which was awful) and most of the spring (which wasn't great but was tolerable).


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
First of all, thank you Pattyla, caedmyn and Shanna4000! That was precisely the information I was looking for. A couple more question, do you use raw milk, whole, goats? What kind of starter?

Pattyla, could you elaborate on "thrilled with the results"? Are you talking about texture, thickness, flavor?

Sorry for all the questions and TIA.

I've used pasteurized whole goats milk, and it came out runny but yougurty. I think I remember that I used a low-fat starter though







:
I've also used whole raw cows milk and it set up a little bit better, with a whole yogurt starter.

I'm making some tonight with a lot of cream that needs to get used up - wish me luck!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

So Elaine says in BTVC that canned tomato juice is okay, but canned veggies like tomatoes is not. Anyone have any comments on this, such as why we would trust the juice label but not the tomatoes label?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
First of all, thank you Pattyla, caedmyn and Shanna4000! That was precisely the information I was looking for. A couple more question, do you use raw milk, whole, goats? What kind of starter?

Pattyla, could you elaborate on "thrilled with the results"? Are you talking about texture, thickness, flavor?

Sorry for all the questions and TIA.

nak
Raw cow
yogurmet starter
Love the texture thickness and flavor.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
First of all, thank you Pattyla, caedmyn and Shanna4000! That was precisely the information I was looking for. A couple more question, do you use raw milk, whole, goats? What kind of starter?

Pattyla, could you elaborate on "thrilled with the results"? Are you talking about texture, thickness, flavor?

Sorry for all the questions and TIA.

I use raw goat's--it is very runny though. I've used yogourmet and commercial goat milk yogurt for starters.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
So Elaine says in BTVC that canned tomato juice is okay, but canned veggies like tomatoes is not. Anyone have any comments on this, such as why we would trust the juice label but not the tomatoes label?

I have this issue with PB--they say not to use peanuts because starch is added during the roasting process, but how do they know starch isn't added during the PB making process? They don't--I asked.

On the juice, supposedly tomato products with the exception of juice need to be canned at a specific Ph so sometimes sugar is added to keep it at that ph.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

How much damage did I do to my yogurt if I forget to turn off the oven and the temp was around 160 all night???







Sigh. Yogurt seems so easy to make in theory. Why do the details always get so dicey?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
How much damage did I do to my yogurt if I forget to turn off the oven and the temp was around 160 all night???







Sigh. Yogurt seems so easy to make in theory. Why do the details always get so dicey?

You might have custard. Sorry you killed off the yogurt of course at that temp it is unlikely that anything else grew either so you could culture it again if you are feeling brave. (low temp pasturization is 161)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Very very interesting...apparently my yogurt didn't culture right--after about 18 hrs it was curds & whey! Doesn't matter anyhow cuz I wasn't going to eat it, but I guess I know a quick way to make whey if I ever want some!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Very very interesting...apparently my yogurt didn't culture right--after about 18 hrs it was curds & whey! Doesn't matter anyhow cuz I wasn't going to eat it, but I guess I know a quick way to make whey if I ever want some!

Thanks so much for the tomato juice advice - I can adhere if there's a reason behind it!

On the yogurt, did it smell like yogurt? I ask because my yogurt is pretty separated when it's done, very liquid on the top and solid on the bottom until I stir it up.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
You might have custard. Sorry you killed off the yogurt of course at that temp it is unlikely that anything else grew either so you could culture it again if you are feeling brave. (low temp pasturization is 161)









The yogurt I made the other day is gone because my sister, who as you may remember was helping me finish my food with unknown zeal, ate some. Well, she is having stomach issues too and I have convinced her of the merrit of cutting out grains. Except for burritos.







I still cannot believe how much that girl can eat. I am now guest-free and headed to the store tomorrow to stock up.







Maybe maybe my book will be here then too.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
On the yogurt, did it smell like yogurt? I ask because my yogurt is pretty separated when it's done, very liquid on the top and solid on the bottom until I stir it up.

No it's definitely not yogurt. The curds are on top and the whey is on the bottom.


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi! Whew, I finally found a current Healing the Gut thread! I hope I can more or less keep up.

I am actually heading off to my first naturopathic doctor's appt this afternoon in Vancouver. Previously I'd seen a great one in CA. It seems I have leaky gut syndrome, but I've had varying digestive problems at least since I was 12. At the moment the worst symptoms are the joint pain, adult acne, and fatigue/lethargy. I don't have any DC's tummies to worry about, but I would like to start TTC in about a year (don't tell my DP yet!) and I would like to make sure my body is a healthy place to grow for a little one before that.

Okay, so I hope to stick around!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I have a question for you all -- my dad has been having severe stomach pain and has been on a liquid diet for almost a week now. He's having it looked into, but in the meantime my mom has asked me for advice on what to feed him. I suggested smoothies made with a base of yogurt and maybe some protein powder. I'm going to the HFS for her tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what to buy.

Thanks!


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## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sphinxie*
Hi! Whew, I finally found a current Healing the Gut thread! I hope I can more or less keep up.

I am actually heading off to my first naturopathic doctor's appt this afternoon in Vancouver. Previously I'd seen a great one in CA. It seems I have leaky gut syndrome, but I've had varying digestive problems at least since I was 12. At the moment the worst symptoms are the joint pain, adult acne, and fatigue/lethargy. I don't have any DC's tummies to worry about, but I would like to start TTC in about a year (don't tell my DP yet!) and I would like to make sure my body is a healthy place to grow for a little one before that.

Okay, so I hope to stick around!

Oh how I wish I'd done all of this before I wasted over 2 years TTC. Good for you for taking the bull by the horns, as it were.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a question for you all -- my dad has been having severe stomach pain and has been on a liquid diet for almost a week now. He's having it looked into, but in the meantime my mom has asked me for advice on what to feed him. I suggested smoothies made with a base of yogurt and maybe some protein powder. I'm going to the HFS for her tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what to buy.

Thanks!

Bone broths would be really good. Jordan Rubin recommends goat yogurt for people with digestive problems, so you might get goat yogurt instead of cow, or even better, make your own if you have access to raw milk. I personally wouldn't do protein powder--generally when they make a powder out of things it causes a lot of damage and oxidation, plus most protein powders are made of soy which is very hard on your system unless it is properly prepared and fermented.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Check this out








http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060608...N5bnN1YmNhdA--

New Mama, I would do bone broths and lots of them.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Check this out








http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060608...N5bnN1YmNhdA--

New Mama, I would do bone broths and lots of them.

Hmmm wonder what would have happened if they had studied kids who were introduced to cereal grains after 1 or 2 years of age. And if they used real properly prepared grains instead of processed baby cereal crap.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a question for you all -- my dad has been having severe stomach pain and has been on a liquid diet for almost a week now. He's having it looked into, but in the meantime my mom has asked me for advice on what to feed him. I suggested smoothies made with a base of yogurt and maybe some protein powder. I'm going to the HFS for her tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what to buy.

Thanks!

Raw milk. Raw milk fasts were used therapeutically a century ago and some people even lived exclusively on milk for years with good results.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

MT recommended (elsewhere and more than a few times) the book "Sexual Chemistry" by Ellen Grant. For those who are TTC, if you've ever been on the pill, you should absolutely read this book. Actually, if you're even remotely interested in the history of the pill, you should read this book - I can't put it down and have even been sneaking in my reading time at 6am . Dr. Grant presents various anecdotes about women's conditions on the pill and how they rebounded after stopping hormones. She also spells out clearly how exogenous (and endogenous) hormones interact with various minerals and vitamins. It may provide some extra guidance in the vitamin/mineral re-balancing ex-pill users need to (or should) do.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

BTVC says that "If a cheese is not a processed cheese (manufactured) but is a cheese that has had a bacterial culture involved with its production and is aged at least 30 days."

What rule of thumb do y'all use in restaurants? Do you assume manufactured unless proven otherwise? There's _no way_ that a waitress is going to be able to answer my questions about this. But when I look at that definition, I would guess that only the plastic cheeses (velveeta, etc.) are illegal. Though the odds of most cheeses having an illegal anti-caking agent, on the other hand.....


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## sphinxie (Feb 28, 2006)

So I went to the naturopath dr appt yesterday. Have been really tired & down lately, and after an hour with a fast-talking energetic dr, I am wiped out! I mean still, the next day. Was nice to be reminded that low-energy is not just in my head, but is connected to digestion etc.

Meanwhile, I am supposed to cut out eggs & soy (allergic) 100%. Which means I have to home cook completely because one or the other is in almost everything. I think I will just make some lentil soup in the slow cooker and subsist on that & rice & yogurt for the weekend. Which means I need to get some regular yogurt too--love kefir but it goes bad too quick (if it isn't bad when I buy it).

I am also sposed to drink 2litres of water a day. Is this humanly possible? Won't I be engorged and peeing every 10 min? Usually I just get sick of drinking after a certain number of glasses.

Meanwhile I am sposed to be working on wedding organizing







:


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yes--I use a Salton yogurt maker you can get on Amazon. It doesn't have a thermometer but I experimented first with a glass jar of water and a thermometer until I figured out how to keep it in the right temperature range (100-110 degrees). It doesn't have an automatic shut-off, either. I use a glass canning jar instead of the plastic jug it comes with. I do have to keep the lid off to keep it at the right temperature, although others who have the same yogurt maker have said they keep the lid on







Oh, and I do sometimes check the temperature of the yogurt after it is done culturing just to make sure everything is still working properly. I'll still eat if it is hotter than I wanted, I just figure it kills the enzymes in the raw milk.

My yogurt is just finishing up today and when I took the temp, it was 118-120F. Enzymes start dying at 118, right? I'll have to experiment to see how to keep it at 100-110. I like the idea of using the glass jar, but using a regular quart mason jar kept the lid on too loosely - is the wide mouth jar uniquely able to fit in the maker? I've thought about using the plastic container and leaving the top off like you do, but I can't imagine it gets up to 100 that way - you've tested it?
On a side note, I used a LOT of cream in this batch of yogurt, and it looks wonderfully yellow and creamy. Thought I'd let it go an extra 4-6 hours to be sure the lactose is all digested, but I wondered if there is any science behind my suspicion that it takes the cream longer to culture. Anyone?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I showed my family the info on the SCD diet....

my mom lives with us, and she said "you need a food processor to do this diet".

I went out and bought one at BB&B, a 14 cup cusinart..whooohoo...I would have waited to get it for a couple weeks, but I went ahead and bought it....partially because my 12 year old told me I couldn't buy it because it was too expensive, and I guess I don't like being told what I can and can't do..









I made the bacon and cabbage reciepe from pecan bread yesterday and 3 out of 6 people ate it and liked it. (we have 8 in our family, but two weren't there)


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
My yogurt is just finishing up today and when I took the temp, it was 118-120F. Enzymes start dying at 118, right? I'll have to experiment to see how to keep it at 100-110. I like the idea of using the glass jar, but using a regular quart mason jar kept the lid on too loosely - is the wide mouth jar uniquely able to fit in the maker? I've thought about using the plastic container and leaving the top off like you do, but I can't imagine it gets up to 100 that way - you've tested it?
On a side note, I used a LOT of cream in this batch of yogurt, and it looks wonderfully yellow and creamy. Thought I'd let it go an extra 4-6 hours to be sure the lactose is all digested, but I wondered if there is any science behind my suspicion that it takes the cream longer to culture. Anyone?

I just used a regular mason jar. It seems like the lid fit but maybe I'd already done away with the lid at that point. If it's too hot with the lid on you're probably going to have to at least crack the lid, anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it doesn't fit right. You can experiment with a jar of water--just put 100-110 degree hot water in the jar and then check the temperature every hour or so for a few hours to see what temperature it stays at with the lid off/cracked or whatever. I don't know about the cream, but I'm pretty sure cream doesn't have much lactose in it anyway.


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## adoremybabe (Jun 8, 2006)

I am so glad to see that there are other women out there that are going through the same thing that I am. I am new to this discussion board and posted my story elsewhere and was sent here. Here is my first post:
_Has anyone ever had an overgrowth of Candida (yeast) in their GI tract? It can occur during or after pregnancy due to the flux in hormones. Unfortunately I am going through it right now. An overgrowth of yeast in the GI tract results in difficulty digesting properly. In order to stabilize my digestion and get everything back to normal I have to refrain from eating refined sugars, white flour and rice, non organic meat, fruit, and a few others.
I'd really like to know if anyone out there has ever gone through this. At times I feel like I am going crazy because I hate being on such a restricted diet._
_I talked to my chiropractor about my symptoms because I thought that my digestive troubles were due to the fact that I broke my tailbone while pushing during labor. My chiropractor has started studying natural medicine and knows several other people that had an overgrowth of candida. The way to find out if you have it is to do a spit test in the morning. Before you drink or eating anything spit into a glass of water. If your spit floats, you are fine, if not then there is a yeast overgrowth. Sounds a little crazy I know. After I started taking a couple supplements to help my digestion, kill the bad yeast, and add the good yeast and changed my diet I felt like a new person._
I can pretty much handle the diet aside from the fact that I feel like I eat the same thing all of the time. The hard part is saying no to the foods I love. I always break down even though I feel like crap afterwards. Does anyone have any insight or advice?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
My yogurt is just finishing up today and when I took the temp, it was 118-120F. Enzymes start dying at 118, right? I'll have to experiment to see how to keep it at 100-110. I like the idea of using the glass jar, but using a regular quart mason jar kept the lid on too loosely - is the wide mouth jar uniquely able to fit in the maker? I've thought about using the plastic container and leaving the top off like you do, but I can't imagine it gets up to 100 that way - you've tested it?
On a side note, I used a LOT of cream in this batch of yogurt, and it looks wonderfully yellow and creamy. Thought I'd let it go an extra 4-6 hours to be sure the lactose is all digested, but I wondered if there is any science behind my suspicion that it takes the cream longer to culture. Anyone?

Yes the wide mouth fits and the regular does not.

At least one recipe for yogurt cream says to culture it for 30 hours. I have 3 scd cookbooks.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I made the bacon and cabbage reciepe from pecan bread yesterday and 3 out of 6 people ate it and liked it. (we have 8 in our family, but two weren't there)
Okay, so now I'm craving this.







Where did you find SCD legal bacon?


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I am so bad.







: I cheated and am paying the price. I didnt have any nuts to grind to make bread with so I had some that was left over. Man did my stomach cramp after eating it. So did dds later that night. Gotta get back on track.

Do any of you use a yogurt maker for making your 24 hr yogurt? If so what one do you use? I dont want to spend too much.

Pattyla-what other SCD cookbooks do you have? Im always looking out for more cookbooks to add to my collection


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
Do any of you use a yogurt maker for making your 24 hr yogurt? If so what one do you use? I dont want to spend too much.


There's a Salton one at Amazon.com for under $20. Several of us use it.


----------



## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Does that one have a temp guage on it? How do you know it stays at 95?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Hey adoremybabe! Glad you found the thread. There is a sticky post in Health and Healing as well called "Healing the Gut Cheat Sheet." Check that you. Many ladies here follow the "SCD Diet" which appears to be a little easier to follow than the candida diet. I did the candida diet three years ago and only heard of SCD here. Some grains are permitted. Fruit is permitted. It's a whole other critter. Though none of this is easy.

And our fearless leader, JaneS, is on vacation right now. So this is a good time to goof off and otherwise misbehave.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Does that one have a temp guage on it? How do you know it stays at 95?

It doesn't have a temperature gauge. Mine stays between 100-110 with the lid off (I did some experiments first with a jar of water and a thermometer).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

galeforce--what is the traditional anti-candida diet? I'm thinking about trying something different...this doesn't seem to be working very well for me.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
And our fearless leader, JaneS, is on vacation right now. So this is a good time to goof off and otherwise misbehave.








heehee!


----------



## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

And our fearless leader, JaneS, is on vacation right now. So this is a good time to goof off and otherwise misbehave.
But not the yeasties, fungies, parasities, etc


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
galeforce--what is the traditional anti-candida diet? I'm thinking about trying something different...this doesn't seem to be working very well for me.

It's very austere. No grains, no fruit, no fermented foods, no high mold foods. Nothing that breaks down as sugar, which includes beans. When I did it, I did end up adding homemade yogurt and had occasional beans only because I was losing 1/2 pound a day, breastfeeding, and thought that was a bit much (though I had plenty to lose).


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Two cookbooks. You can get them both from Lucy's kitchen shop.

Grain free Gourmet and Lucy's kitchen shop cook book. Both have good recipes. I highly recomend the grain free gourmet one I use it a ton, but read the whole thing. You will find good ideas tucked away in other recpies that you might not make.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
But not the yeasties, fungies, parasities, etc

Definitely not.







:


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I meant to mention. Did you know that Thai Kitchen makes coconut milk with just coconut and water in it? I ordered some through my co-op for this month. It isn't organic







but it also doesn't have any illegals. I also read on their website that supply problems are why some of it has the illegals in it. You will have to check store to store to see what kind they have in right then. I'm sure it will change case by case.

Their web site is www.thaikitchen.com and it is the pure coconut milk. You can order direct from them if you want to.

I got some of those (pure coconut milk little cans) from Shoppers. I bought them all and haven't seen any since. they still carry the Premium one with guar gum. What are the online sources?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

This site has lots of good coconut products.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

caedmyn said:


> I just thought of something: if I am taking enzymes with every meal and still having issues with undigested food, does that mean the enzymes aren't working?
> 
> I am also spending more money on food now. I bought a lot of produce before, but I think I am buying more expensive stuff now--lots of avocados, for example, and before we ate a fair amount of potatoes and corn. I'm also buying about 6 dzn eggs a week instead of 2 dzn. I try to go easy on the nuts because they are so expensive. Last month I used about 2 lbs of almonds and 1 1/2 lbs of pecans. I'll probably use more this month, though.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I ordered the wrong thing from my co-op.







I now have a whole case of illegal coconut milk to unload on someone. Sigh. With those little cans I have to order like 80 of them and I wanted to try it out first. It looked like I was ordering the same thing in bigger cans but I couldn't tell for sure.

I took dd today to get her blood tested for lead (we live in an old house) and her iron count. It was the first time she had a blood test. It was a nightmare! The woman doing it totally couldn't find her vein and fished arround in her arm for a while before she gave up. The only thing that saved us was they let me nurse her through the process. She still was pretty freaked out and it took a long time to calm her down. She would have dealt much, much better if they had gotten the vein on the first try. Why do they think it is a good idea to learn on my baby????

I got my blood test results back today. Still normal tsh and free t4. but my iron count has finally come up!!! From 18 to 23 in 3 months w/o taking any supplimental iron at all. In fact prior to this I took a prenatal w/iron but quit that when we started scd. I have started eating lamb a few times a week and previously I didn't eat any red meat but I'm not sure that is it. I think it may just be my gut healing and able to asborb that iron finally. I really need to figure out how to choke down the liver in my freezer now.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
, and I found a between-meals yeast killing enzyme that's similar to Candidase but almost 1/3 the price.

OOO, let me know the source!!

Candizyme...found it at vitacost.com but you could check iherb.com and vitaminshoppe.com too--iherb.com generally has the same prices as vitacost.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody remember the taste test for zinc deficiency? If it tastes awful then you're probably not deficient. If you can't taste it at all you probably need it.

Is that the way it goes? AND, does this apply to sweetened liquid zinc too? (Kirkman's) I wonder because suddenly I think I'm tasting the zinc.


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

Okay, so now I'm craving this. Where did you find SCD legal bacon?
Er...I am not up on the whole bacon being illegal thing yet, I thought meat was legal. What is illegal about bacon? I have Hyvee brand, sugar cured (ok..duh..it's the sugar). I have several brands of hfstore bacon that are nitrate free though. ok...on my first SCD reciepe...I guess I mucked that one up.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Er...I am not up on the whole bacon being illegal thing yet, I thought meat was legal. What is illegal about bacon? I have Hyvee brand, sugar cured (ok..duh..it's the sugar). I have several brands of hfstore bacon that are nitrate free though. ok...on my first SCD reciepe...I guess I mucked that one up.
Funny, 'cause I went ahead and bought turkey bacon today at the grocery store and am planning on making it tomorrow!







:


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Jane will come back and I will have you all overgrown with yeast








:

I did get the reciepe off of pecanbread though.....


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Funny, 'cause I went ahead and bought turkey bacon today at the grocery store and am planning on making it tomorrow!







:

Did you find legal turkey bacon????


----------



## adoremybabe (Jun 8, 2006)

Alright, I just took a look at the SCD diet. The list is sooo extensive compared to the Candida diet that I have been on. Some of the food that I couldn't have on the Candida diet I can have with the SCD diet. That intrigues me. How long on average does a person have to be on the SCD diet before they are healed? Is any bread permissible? I am also taking supplements to help my digestive enzymes and help control the yeast in my intestines. All I want is to get better. I know that eating this way is definately good for my health its just hard to get used to as I am sure that you all can attest to! I also have a husband who is a very picky eater so most of the time I am fixing two different meals!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Did you find legal turkey bacon????
No, I didn't but the mag citrate I've been taking has me messed up now anyway so I might just go ahead and eat it anyway.








'Course, I may change my mind in the morning. But if I don't, I will be able to blame my [insert bloated/gassy smilie here] on Bestbirths!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Really though; don't you all think a bloated smilie would be useful?


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

According to Elaine, you can eat bacon once a week, unless you can find it without any added sugars, in which case you can eat it as often as you like. I think Organic Valley makes a sugar free uncured bacon (but read the ingredients list before you go buying up tons of it). I had stopped bacon since supposedly pork causes cancer, but it being one of the few meats ds will eat, I'm thinking of buying it again myself.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Candizyme...found it at vitacost.com but you could check iherb.com and vitaminshoppe.com too--iherb.com generally has the same prices as vitacost.

Thanks!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
According to Elaine, you can eat bacon once a week, unless you can find it without any added sugars, in which case you can eat it as often as you like. I think Organic Valley makes a sugar free uncured bacon (but read the ingredients list before you go buying up tons of it). I had stopped bacon since supposedly pork causes cancer, but it being one of the few meats ds will eat, I'm thinking of buying it again myself.
Where did you read this? BTV Cycle site?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Anybody remember the taste test for zinc deficiency? If it tastes awful then you're probably not deficient. If you can't taste it at all you probably need it.

Is that the way it goes? AND, does this apply to sweetened liquid zinc too? (Kirkman's) I wonder because suddenly I think I'm tasting the zinc.









That's the way it's supposed to go...I have a liquid zinc complex and it tastes horrible. I've taken it twice, then I gave up and got capsules. It doesn't mention tasting awful on the bottle (and some of the company's liquid supplements do), so I'm guessing you're not supposed to taste it if you're not zinc deficient. I guess if you didn't taste yours before and now you do it's a good thing


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Isn't there some sort of special zinc taste test? Does anyone know? A certain preparation maybe? I've done some searches and haven't found anything.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Someone local to me just posted a notice about having cp. What are your thoughts on exposing dd?

She is 2.5 We've been healing for only 3 months. She tends to have skin things so I'm worried that it will be particularly bad for her so younger is probably better than older. I'm hoping to be pg before too long and would rather she not have it while I am pg or have an infant in the house.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Someone local to me just posted a notice about having cp. What are your thoughts on exposing dd?

She is 2.5 We've been healing for only 3 months. She tends to have skin things so I'm worried that it will be particularly bad for her so younger is probably better than older. I'm hoping to be pg before too long and would rather she not have it while I am pg or have an infant in the house.

She's still nursing, right? I would think she's at a good age, but she may not get it because of antibodies through your milk (assuming you had CP). But I don't think it would hurt to try.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Yea I had it as an infant. There has always been a question if I am really immune but I've never caught it any other time (and my mom exposed me several times). That question is one reason why I really don't want her to get it while I am pg. She is still nursing a ton and I know that may keep her from getting it too.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adoremybabe*
Alright, I just took a look at the SCD diet. The list is sooo extensive compared to the Candida diet that I have been on. Some of the food that I couldn't have on the Candida diet I can have with the SCD diet. That intrigues me. How long on average does a person have to be on the SCD diet before they are healed?

It is recommended to stay on the SCD until one year after the very last symptom has disappeared. I think generally that means about two years? I'm sure one of the veterans can correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adoremybabe*
Is any bread permissible?

No, not bread made from grain flours. However, there are some really yummy nut bread recipes that can be introduced later as nuts are tolerated. JaneS has a yummy cashew butter bread/cake recipe that makes a bread suitable for sandwiches. I even used it to make grilled cheese and it turned out all right.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
According to Elaine, you can eat bacon once a week, unless you can find it without any added sugars, in which case you can eat it as often as you like. I think Organic Valley makes a sugar free uncured bacon (but read the ingredients list before you go buying up tons of it). I had stopped bacon since supposedly pork causes cancer, but it being one of the few meats ds will eat, I'm thinking of buying it again myself.

I think...I can't remember if it's Applegate Farms or Diestel or maybe someone else entirely, but they make a sugarless turkey bacon. It might have honey but I distinctly remember no sugar, because I used to eat it.

DH tells me that I'm mistaken about the brand. I'll try to figure out what it is, I know we buy it at Whole Foods.


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Why do people use powdered yogurt starters to make yogurt instead of using a commercial yogurt? Are there advantages? Disadvantages?

Thanks chasmyn for answering this elsewhere! Can you use herbs for roasting meats on SCD? Cinnamon in homemade applesauce?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Why do people use powdered yogurt starters to make yogurt instead of using a commercial yogurt? Are there advantages? Disadvantages?

Thanks chasmyn for answering this elsewhere! Can you use herbs for roasting meats on SCD? Cinnamon in homemade applesauce?

I use powdered starter mainly because I was having the comercial yogurt go bad before I used it up and then I never had the good stuff on hand when I needed it. This is just easier.

Nearly all herbs are legal on scd. Cinnamon is legal. Check out the legal/illegal list on breakingtheviciouscycle.org (?) for specific ones. I know that fenugreek isn't legal for example.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I think...I can't remember if it's Applegate Farms or Diestel or maybe someone else entirely, but they make a sugarless turkey bacon. It might have honey but I distinctly remember no sugar, because I used to eat it.

DH tells me that I'm mistaken about the brand. I'll try to figure out what it is, I know we buy it at Whole Foods.

I have a bunch of applegate farms turkey bacon in my freezer. It isn't legal.







It is very yummy though and I wish I could eat it. Pork just doesn't agree with me at all. I miss bacon.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Someone local to me just posted a notice about having cp. What are your thoughts on exposing dd?

She is 2.5 We've been healing for only 3 months. She tends to have skin things so I'm worried that it will be particularly bad for her so younger is probably better than older. I'm hoping to be pg before too long and would rather she not have it while I am pg or have an infant in the house.

Well, we exposed both boys this winter. Finally after 4 exposures







, they both got it. For us, it was cake. My older son just turned 4 and my lil' guy was 15m. My lil' guy was covered head to toe and was absolutely positively cheerful







and my 4 yr old ended up w/ONE SPOT. We did a blood draw for something else and tested his titers for poops and giggles, and he is evidentally immune









Our experience, I know that kids w/immune problems can get a worse (or downright dangerous) case, but I knew my kids were quite healthy despite the impaired immune function.

hth
Amy


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
Why do people use powdered yogurt starters to make yogurt instead of using a commercial yogurt? Are there advantages? Disadvantages?

Thanks chasmyn for answering this elsewhere! Can you use herbs for roasting meats on SCD? Cinnamon in homemade applesauce?

We use progurt, and I really love it ('bout to order more in fact). And we have had great experience w/it--it is always a very very tart yogurt. In fact, it is downright inedible w/o raspberries and honey. I know Jane had a bottle that did nothing to her yogurt, but that has not been my experience.

We also can't do dairy, so I need a cow free starter for my goat yogurt--and white egret farm never processed my order nor returned my phone call.







:


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane's back, so you ladies start behaving yourselves.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Question for you HTG/NT Mamas (especially gluten-free ones),
I am slowly incorporating NT recipes into our SCD lives with 2 dds allergic/reactive to wheat and want to try one of the breads. Should I start w/trying to make the Sourdough recipe in the book or should I get some millet and try that? Any thoughts?


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
JaneS has a yummy cashew butter bread/cake recipe that makes a bread suitable for sandwiches. I even used it to make grilled cheese and it turned out all right.

Does anyone have a link for this? I keep hearing about it but can't find it!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

SCD Chefs link


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Question for you HTG/NT Mamas (especially gluten-free ones),
I am slowly incorporating NT recipes into our SCD lives with 2 dds allergic/reactive to wheat and want to try one of the breads. Should I start w/trying to make the Sourdough recipe in the book or should I get some millet and try that? Any thoughts?

I made the sourdough with rye and spelt. It came out hard like a rock. However, my DD had no bad reactions to it while she did to spelt muffins. You might want to take Peptizyde before eating it, it breaks down gluten. Or try gluten-free grains but they don't hold together as well as gluten grains.
I'm also wonderiong if anyone is using buckwheat or millet with success? Also, quinoa is supposed to be good for nursing mamas, but I have no idea what to make with it.


----------



## CrunchyGranolaMom (Feb 5, 2002)

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience w. using breastmilk to help an older child who has Crohn's disease? My dd (age 8.5) was diagnosed just a month ago, spent a week in the hospital, and has now been on the SC diet (and a lot of meds) for two weeks, and, thankfully, her lab markers (ESR and CRP) are within the normal range, so it shows we're doing something right! We have an infant, and I'm wondering if mommy milk put into a smoothie or something might help her immune system?

When I asked this on Pecanbread, one woman said that I couldn't use the breastmilk as is b/c liquid milk is prohibited. Do you think Elaine really meant that to include breastmilk?!?! No one else answered, and I realized that THIS was the right list to ask this on!

Any ideas?! Thanks!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Hi all,

Does anyone have experience w. using breastmilk to help an older child who has Crohn's disease? My dd (age 8.5) was diagnosed just a month ago, spent a week in the hospital, and has now been on the SC diet (and a lot of meds) for two weeks, and, thankfully, her lab markers (ESR and CRP) are within the normal range, so it shows we're doing something right! We have an infant, and I'm wondering if mommy milk put into a smoothie or something might help her immune system?

When I asked this on Pecanbread, one woman said that I couldn't use the breastmilk as is b/c liquid milk is prohibited. Do you think Elaine really meant that to include breastmilk?!?! No one else answered, and I realized that THIS was the right list to ask this on!

Any ideas?! Thanks!

I would think BM would be just fine for your DD. It's totally different than cow or goat milk. I personally haven't been too impressed with some of the answers I've received on the pecanbread yahoo group for various questions--I think they are so focused on following the exact specifics of the diet they don't even stop to consider anything that even slightly contradicts the letter of the diet...JMO though.


----------



## adoremybabe (Jun 8, 2006)

Is it REALLY important to get the book written by Gottschall before I start the SC diet?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *adoremybabe*
Is it REALLY important to get the book written by Gottschall before I start the SC diet?

No, you can start the diet right away while doing some research on pecanbread, but it is a good resource to have, especially for recipes and such.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Jane's back, so you ladies start behaving yourselves.

















the cat's out of the bag... I can't lurk in peace!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*







the cat's out of the bag... I can't lurk in peace!








Lurk???? You need to post, post, post. Our guts are depending on you!









A raw milk question: I found an awesome source & sometimes freeze some. I just used my 1/2 defrosted milk to make yogurt. It looks like it has seperated - - there's a thin layer of butter yellow on top. Will this turn out?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
A raw milk question: I found an awesome source & sometimes freeze some. I just used my 1/2 defrosted milk to make yogurt. It looks like it has seperated - - there's a thin layer of butter yellow on top. Will this turn out?

It should be fine. The bigger issue I have with frozen milk is that if you use it as you defrost it, the frozen middle part ends up being skim milk. Usually most of the cream has risen to the top by the time I freeze it and then it defrfosts around the sides, top, and bottom and leaves a fat-free frozen piece in the middle.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







the cat's out of the bag... I can't lurk in peace!









It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch. Annikate kept showing up delirious from lack of sleep. Bestbirths has sorely tempted everyone with illegal foods. And MT has been generally cantankerous. The thread had to get chopped in pieces by the moderator. I'm surprised it's still here, but welcome back. How are your vitamin D levels?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:

It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch.
Well, not drinking hooch, but super yummy lemonade. Good I haven't officially started SCD.









So after my last yogurt debacle, I am making more. Now this is majorly separated, lots of liquid on top. No major heating issues, so not really sure what the problem is. I haven't opened it up because I am still hoping to salvage it. Thoughts?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch. Annikate kept showing up delirious from lack of sleep. Bestbirths has sorely tempted everyone with illegal foods. And MT has been generally cantankerous. The thread had to get chopped in pieces by the moderator. I'm surprised it's still here, but welcome back. How are your vitamin D levels?


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I use powdered starter mainly because I was having the comercial yogurt go bad before I used it up and then I never had the good stuff on hand when I needed it. This is just easier.

Nearly all herbs are legal on scd. Cinnamon is legal. Check out the legal/illegal list on breakingtheviciouscycle.org (?) for specific ones. I know that fenugreek isn't legal for example.

Pattyla - Thank you and feeling pretty dumb over here. Sorry. I forgot that herbs were listed on the legal/illegal list but I think I still would have been wondering if they could be used in the introduction.

I haven't made yogurt yet. (To anyone who wishes to reply) Would you tell me your favorite starter and why you like it? Does tartness of the yogurt come from the starter or how long it is left to culture? I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?

Thank you!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
I haven't made yogurt yet. (To anyone who wishes to reply) Would you tell me your favorite starter and why you like it? Does tartness of the yogurt come from the starter or how long it is left to culture? I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?

Thank you!

Yogourmet. Good, consistent, good #s of bacteria. Tartness depends on how long it is left to culture.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

:So DH and I are starting to think we have dairy and possibly egg and maybe even nut sensitivities.

I could cry.

I cannot possibly do SCD without these three foods, can I? I certainly don't want to.

So I'm seeking a good naturopath to help us dx. Can you ladies recommend what to ask, what tests are best, etc?

I'm just so sad about this. Pretty soon all I'll be eating is meat, veggies and fruit. Sigh.







:


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Spencersmom*
I could also use some of the yogurt I just made to start the next batch? Is that correct?
If you're adhering to the SCD then you can't use your own to start a new batch. Something about the certain strains of bacteria. This site tells why.


----------



## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

I found it and thought I'd copy/paste it here in case anyone else is wondering. Thanks for the link.

*Why can't I use the yoghurt I have made as a starter for the next batch?*This would be a bad practice, the commercial yoghurt or starter powder we use as a starter has been produced under tightly controlled production methods and should not contain undesirable strains. If we use the yoghurt that we have produced with each generation other strains are likely to contaminate it and the existing bacteria can also mutate to undesirable strains


----------



## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*







:So DH and I are starting to think we have dairy and possibly egg and maybe even nut sensitivities.

Oh mama, I hear you. We have nut sensitivities, and I personally am sensitive to dairy. We can only eat eggs for one meal a day due to DH's digestive problems with them. Needless to say we are not doing SCD at the moment. I think I'd die without potatoes right now since winter squash in unavailable.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
It's just as well because I sent water kefir grains to some of these ladies and the whole tribe was showing up drunk on kefir hooch. Annikate kept showing up delirious from lack of sleep. Bestbirths has sorely tempted everyone with illegal foods. And MT has been generally cantankerous. The thread had to get chopped in pieces by the moderator. I'm surprised it's still here, but welcome back. How are your vitamin D levels?











Thank you for the welcome!
D levels are not so high, it rained a lot.







:

We had fun though! But DS got some weird spots... I have no idea what they are!! Seems to be smaller than bug bites, although there were some mosquitos around but several in his diaper area which I know cannot be bites. Some have a bit of a head, again unlike a bug bite... somewhat itchy but not too bad. Any thoughts?

He's had shellfish before so I didn't think they were hives from that (he didn't eat much, we gave him nightmares from lobster night.







Everything else he ate was what he always eats (unless DH's family fed him illegals.)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
It should be fine. The bigger issue I have with frozen milk is that if you use it as you defrost it, the frozen middle part ends up being skim milk. Usually most of the cream has risen to the top by the time I freeze it and then it defrfosts around the sides, top, and bottom and leaves a fat-free frozen piece in the middle.

If you remember to shake while freezing it helps this.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
We use progurt, and I really love it ('bout to order more in fact). And we have had great experience w/it--it is always a very very tart yogurt. In fact, it is downright inedible w/o raspberries and honey. I know Jane had a bottle that did nothing to her yogurt, but that has not been my experience.

We also can't do dairy, so I need a cow free starter for my goat yogurt--and white egret farm never processed my order nor returned my phone call.







:

I like Progurt but find that I need to use more than 1/4 tsp. per 2 qts or use a bit of last batch as well.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a question for you all -- my dad has been having severe stomach pain and has been on a liquid diet for almost a week now. He's having it looked into, but in the meantime my mom has asked me for advice on what to feed him. I suggested smoothies made with a base of yogurt and maybe some protein powder. I'm going to the HFS for her tomorrow and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what to buy.

Thanks!

Check 'Goatein' by Garden of Life protein powder although I echo the raw milk and bone broths suggestions. Also you might try to find liquid colostrum too, my dairy coop has it available.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
*Re: Supplements*

I also still have very little supplements in my diet. I really feel the need for Mag. and I'd love to get the Brainchild vitamins and/or minerals for Galen. Given that he almost exclusively drinks mama milk (yes, at 20-months-old!), and mama is so depleted, I don't think he's getting sufficient from me. Any one have any thoughts on this?

I like the Brainchild Ultra Sensitive minerals for DS. I do not like the vitamins, they have the bad form of vitamin C and only caretenoids, not true vitamin A.

Cod liver oil is absolutely essential. I like natural vitamin C, the amla powder from Himalaya or Paradise Herbs.

As an aside, I think DS is having trouble again with the mag. citrate too. I wonder if this allow yeast to grow if not all absorbed, I seem to recall reading that before ... ?

I'm at a loss as to another mag. source for him as getting bone broths into him now is impossible.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
Argh. I don't know how you moms do it, but I feel like my head is going to explode. More stress. Just what I need.







: I can't think straight any more. I just can't.

We bang our heads and cry! I seriously have at least one major meltdown about DS every single week, I just don't post about it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I've been really reluctant to post here since I've been off SCD, but looks like I'm at square one now (surprise, surprise!).

I went to my ND a month ago, and she told me SCD was overkill for me, and that given my ethnicity (mostly Indian - from India) I needed rice etc.. She said all my prblems were stress related (which I believe) but I don't completley agree with her approach for me. For the first week after the reintroduction of some foods, I had splitting headaches, and the D. returned. It settled down a bit after that, but I'm back to almost exclusively having D. I want to go back to SCD so badly, but my DP has made it clear he would like me to do this under the approval (?) of a Dr.. I'm taking this time to also figure out our finances since I fiund SCD was breaking the bank.

In the mean time, I visited the drop-in clinic close to my house, and asked for a referral to a GI specialist. The Dr. I saw declined because I have no preliminary testing. I have an appointment with an Internist on Tuesday. I need to get my facts together so I can present him my case, but I'm in no shape to do reasearch at this time (I can barely write a message here, and then need to rest for a while because I feel so tired staring at this screen, and my head hurts







)

I'm reasonably sure that the internist hasn't heard of SCD (though he might surprise me, but it's very unlikely), but I really just want to "sell" it to him







Yes, I'm being sneeky, but I'm at the point of desperation, and really need this now for my sanity. I have my food journals from a few months, but I've found I don't keep the journal updated when I feel crappy... I haven't documented in the last month, goes to show how great I've been doing since coming off SCD









So, tell me mamas, what sort of documentation can I provide the Internist as proof that SCD works? (or something along those lines). I'm going to take BTVC along, but I find the book too simplistic to really sell someone on the idea (I wasn't sold by just reading that anyway). I'm going to print off the Canadian list of Dr.'s who are SCD friendly. Will that help? (http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/doctors.html)

There is just so much information out there, that I'm considering just giving him the most important links. Can anyone do my homework for me, and just suggest to be the most informative webpages (specific pages, not entire sites, since he won't have time to look through it all).

Also, I plan on suggesting Enzyme therapy to him, as one course of action. Of course I'll only want to take SCD friendly enzymes







I wonder how open he'll be with that?

Any sort of support would be wonderful, since I'm in worse place now mentally than I remember being in before SCD. *Sigh* I've been graining weight (only grain reintro. is rice, but I eat potatoes occassionally too). My stress levels are still very much elivated. I'm taking up yoga to help with clearing my mind, and I really hope I can go back to SCD -- with everyone in my home being happy about it -- very soon. I need to stop worrying about the money.

I have no idea how to handle speking with conventional Dr.'s. The one at the drop in clinic was very condescending when I told him blood tests for celiacs would be pointless at this time. He was a really ass about it, but he's just one Dr. and I really hope the Internist will be different (in a good sense of course)!

Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I feel like this is never going to end. The diet clearly isn't working all that great without probiotics of some sort, and I can't buy the really good probiotic supplement that is $5 a day...I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with my issues forever and that DD will have food allergies forever, too

















I'm right there with you. I had one angry little boy on my hands last week. DS has never been exposed to such junk food as he did while we were on vaca with DH's family. He wanted so many things and he couldn't have them. I was in tears several times about it b/c he's STILL not okay even with his limited diet. Contrast this with 2 teenagers who are lovely, even tempered, the picture of health, eating complete and total crap. He will never ever be that carefree and it absolutely kills me. I worry what this is doing to him psychologically.

You know it was truly mind blowing how many different kinds of food can be made from the small combination of sugar, white flour, transfats and artificial colors and how they can be eaten at every meal.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

At what point do I decide this diet isn't going to work for us and try something else? The only improvements we've seen in two months are 1) DD's bloody poop went away (until the goat yogurt/Candidase fiasco)...and that could have been just due to my eliminating dairy 2) I have less gas than I used to, but I still have a fair amount, and 3) DD's sleep patterns have changed. She now takes longer naps and goes down for her naps better (probably due to me instituting an invariable nap routine), but sometimes takes 2 hours to finally stay asleep at night, which never happened before, plus she has been waking up twice a night instead of once a night or even no night wakings.

I'm thinking of trying an actual candida diet--the one I'm looking at is only meat, eggs, and low carb veggies (same as SCD veggies but no carrots, peas, or winter squash). I know I'm not digesting nuts well at all, so I really need to stop them anyway.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone want to read this article and try to explain it to me...I'm very confused. It basically says the leaky gut theory is a bunch of hooey. I have to post the whole article and not a link as it is a file on a yahoo group.

Leaky Gut Theory Cannot Be True
By Bee Wilder
June 1, 2006

In order to discuss the leaky gut theory we first have to start by discussing allergy testing. First of all even the medical community agrees that allergy tests are inconclusive, and that clinical evidence must also be considered before making a final decision about whether a person has a "true" allergy or not.

Here's a quote from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003519.htm
"The accuracy of allergy testing varies quite a bit. Even the same test performed at different times on a person may give different results. A person may react to a substance during testing, but never react during normal exposure. A person may also have a negative allergy test and yet still be allergic to the substance." Also, even doctors know that some tests assess the levels of immune responses which are not necessarily related to an allergy.

In order to do allergy tests the "actual food" or "whole food" cannot be used because they need a form that can be injected under the skin, or in liquid form to test in blood samples (when they test blood samples they add the substance to the blood and then check it for reactions, mostly for antibodies) - the antibody theory is another whole subject that doesn't hold up to common sense either. Therefore they use a substance contained in the food that is suspected of causing reactions. To test peanuts they use peanut protein, which is not the whole peanut. To test eggs they use egg protein, and so on.

I first started to suspect the whole allergy field when my girlfriend died of cancer May 10, 2005. She was already very ill, and her allergy tests done in February indicated she was allergic to almost everything under the sun, including almost all meats and numerous vegetables. That didn't make sense to me, so I wondered if they use grass-fed beef or free-range certified organic eggs in the tests. They don't, of course.







They use a fractionated substance, not the whole food, and I suspect they make them synthetically, although I couldn't prove it. It stands to reason that reactions to one substance in a food, which may be synthetic, is very difference than reactions to the whole unadulterated food, complete with enzymes, nutrients, etc., not just the protein.

Did you know that what happens in a laboratory does not necessarily happen in the body, as proved by meats, which create acid when added to water in a laboratory, but they do not make acid in the body.

When I studied allergic reactions I found out they are exactly the same as healing reactions. This means that a person can "react" to a food, but if it is unadulterated whole food the reactions are healing reactions and not allergic reactions. See my complete article "Allergies, What They Are & How to Treat Them" in the Allergies Folder.

This leads us to the leaky gut theory, which does not make sense to me because of what I understand about digestion. First of all, food is almost totally digested and broken down into small particles by the time it leaves the duodenum (the part between the stomach and the small intestines).

The job of the intestines is mainly absorption. Here's an excerpt from "The Long Hallow Tube - A Primer in Digestion" (in our digestion folder): "Absorption [of food] takes place via the villi, small projections in the mucous membrane. Each villus has a network of capillaries through which the broken-down components of the food are absorbed. The nutrients then pass through the epithelial cells in the inner lining of the villi, at which point they enter the capillaries. The small intestine is attached to the rear abdominal wall by a thin sheet of membrane called the mesentery, which carries blood vessels to nourish the small intestine and carries absorbed nutrients to the liver and other parts of the body."

Villi in the intestines are covered by an outer layer of epithelium, which food must pass through before it gains entry into the villi. Epithelium is tissue composed of a layer of cells - note the word 'cells.' Epithelium lines both the outside (skin) and the inside (e.g. intestine) of organisms. The outermost layer of our skin is composed of dead squamous epithelial cells, as are the mucous membranes lining the inside of mouths and body cavities. Other epithelial cells line the insides of the lungs, the gastrointestinal tract, the reproductive and urinary tracts, etc. Please note that candida infects the outer layers of the epithelium of mucus membranes.

Functions of epithelial cells include secretion, absorption, protection, transcellular transport, sensation detection, and "selective permeability."

If food is not digested into small enough particles it cannot pass through the epithelium cells of the villi, and it would pass out of the body as undigested food. Even the very tiny holes in the villa made by candida hyphae (threadlike filaments it puts out when it changes and starts to overgrow) would not allow food particles to pass through the layers of the villa into the blood stream. Candida is sticking it's long feet into the epithelial cells, which will damages those cells for sure, but damaged epithelial cells cannot function so they wouldn't be able to absorb any food particles.

In other words, the cells lining the intestines do not allow large particles to pass through them - it is physically impossible - the cells themselves would have to enlarge somehow. Therefore large undigested food particles pass through the intestines, unabsorbed and out of the body, just like fibres. That blows the whole leaky gut theory out of the window, doesn't it?


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey. We used the provocation neutralization testing method. The method of allergy testing chosen is important. Now, if I could afford it, my son would be getting EPD. Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization for our preferred allergy treatment of choice. It might be called something else now in the US. Cost for just one person would be $500 every 2 months. Sigh.

The leaky gut theory. I haven't researched enough, but the whole concept of digestive enzymes is based on it, and digestive enzymes are working for my child. My child couldn't stand much before going on the enzymes, his legs were little sticks with muscle wasting, and no fat. He can now stand, and he has grown, his chest has broadened, he has developed muscle in his legs, he has grown stronger. I think enzymes are a contributing factor in allowing him physically to be able to go out, and do things like a normal child would do. I am thinking that the digestive enzymes have greatly improved his nutrient absorption, cut down on his body attacking itself. The theory is that the undigested food particles are large, and when they leak through the gut, the immune system attacks the particles as a foreign object. Digestive enzymes break down the particles into smaller particles that fly under the radar of the immune systems defenses. Each one enzyme usually only works to break down one corresponding particle, which is why it is so beneficial to take many different enzymes. I saw a 2 hour long lecture by the creator of houston's enzymes, and he explained this.


----------



## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Hello! I've never posted here, but I'm curious: what is "Healing the Gut?" What exactly are you healing it of? I've had major problems with fungus for the past 5 years or so (maybe longer







); is that the kind of problem that healing the gut addresses?


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## april2462 (May 15, 2006)

I believe that many different researchers are starting to understand a bit better the balancing act of bacteria, good and bad, that is the human gut. Bee's article is just his/her hypothesis, with no scientific studies to back up or test that hypothesis. For example, it would interesting to know exactly what happens to the epithelial cells when a gluten intolerant person (like me!) eats gluten - we do already know that the villi get damaged.

See here for some recent research on the effects of stress on rat gut permeability (lovely!) in which they talk about how the gut gets 'leaky'

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060520/food.asp

Of course that's just one set of researchers at one university! But I believe that the research is starting to come together, it's just the mainstream medical community is about a million years behind with absolutely no motivation to catch up to what all you mamas are figuring out for yourselves!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

My yogurt curdled.







Too hot?

I started reading an old HTG thread where some were using the Makers Diet for healing. I do have that and have read it, while I am still waiting on BTVC. (is this a sign that I have been waiting for it for over a month???) I started wondering if I shouldn't try that first. He claims improved health in 40 days, which is certainly appealing!







I am thinking to get DD1 to do this with me. I have mentioned in other threads about her nightwaking, dark circles and leg cramps. She also sometimes has flaky stools. The hardest thing will be getting her to stop grains.









I have to physically and mentally prepare for this. I asked DH last night if I am a bit crazy about all this food/nutrition/health stuff. He said it did seem a bit obsessed, but did qualify that by saying who is he to judge. Sigh. Why do I even ask??


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Homemade dairy question:
So I'm making homemade butter out of whole (raw!) cream. Last time I did this, I didn't clean the butter well enough of the buttermilk, and ended up having a stealth relapse, besides having this buttermilk product that I could do nothing with.

My question is, what can I do to 1)better safeguard the butter and 2) be able to use the buttermilk. I didn't do the cold water washing of the butter last time, so I"ll be sure to add that step. But I'm still a little nervous using butter made from uncultured dairy. If I yogurt-culture the whole cream first, will the butter still come out? If not, could I yogurt culture the leftover buttermilk? I know that the butter theoretically doesn't have lactose in it, but when I'm doing it myself I'd really like some added insurance.....







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I had DH read the article (he has a pretty good science background, which I don't), and he said it makes sense to him that food particles are going to be too big to get through "holes" in the gut unless those holes are absolutely huge. But clearly there are things that get through one way or another and cause allergic reactions, so if the traditional theory of leaky gut isn't entirely accurate, there's still some sort of leaking going on. I still don't get it. I guess I need to do some searching for actual scientific studies.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Homemade dairy question:
So I'm making homemade butter out of whole (raw!) cream. Last time I did this, I didn't clean the butter well enough of the buttermilk, and ended up having a stealth relapse, besides having this buttermilk product that I could do nothing with.

My question is, what can I do to 1)better safeguard the butter and 2) be able to use the buttermilk. I didn't do the cold water washing of the butter last time, so I"ll be sure to add that step. But I'm still a little nervous using butter made from uncultured dairy. If I yogurt-culture the whole cream first, will the butter still come out? If not, could I yogurt culture the leftover buttermilk? I know that the butter theoretically doesn't have lactose in it, but when I'm doing it myself I'd really like some added insurance.....







:

You can leave the cream out for a few hours to allow it to sour some before you make the butter. I would just throw the buttermilk away, or figure out a way to feed it to your DH


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*







:So DH and I are starting to think we have dairy and possibly egg and maybe even nut sensitivities.

I could cry.

I cannot possibly do SCD without these three foods, can I? I certainly don't want to.

So I'm seeking a good naturopath to help us dx. Can you ladies recommend what to ask, what tests are best, etc?

I'm just so sad about this. Pretty soon all I'll be eating is meat, veggies and fruit. Sigh.







:

You can do SCD with good enzynmes. Have you read Karen DeFelice's book Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disroders or something like it. She has a chapter on leaky gut and several refs to SCD. Anyway, Peptizyde(for casein and gluten) and HN-Zyme Prime(broad-spectrum) has allowed most people to get off restrictive diets. These are specially formulated enzymes. There are stories about kids who were down to eating like 5 foods and after a month on enzymes they could eat pretty much everything. The website is enzymestuff.com, it's very informative.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

For everyone who is having trouble with enzymes for yeast killing, why don't you try the Candex or No Fenol? They do not have proteases.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
At what point do I decide this diet isn't going to work for us and try something else?

What a good question! One that I have wrestled with with DS for a while now... I need to change his diet and reduce his protein even further (see Nut/Imm 101 thread for current discussions on sleep problems) but he still cannot tolerate a lot of fruit/veggies now even with enzymes.

I'm considering oatmeal, remind me to put up studies on oatmeal and gut stuff from Karen DeFelice's group. Also Transfer Factor, but dairy free is probably impossible, no? That is why I was looking at Goatein for DS too.

I gotta think major probiotics are the key to this. I was drinking 3-4 cups of yogurt or kefir day for several months. I'm considering putting DS back on Reuteri, which he did take before with success (however his gut wasn't this bad either b/c he was bf'ing):
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ri#post1252192


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## CrunchyGranolaMom (Feb 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I would think BM would be just fine for your DD. It's totally different than cow or goat milk. I personally haven't been too impressed with some of the answers I've received on the pecanbread yahoo group for various questions--I think they are so focused on following the exact specifics of the diet they don't even stop to consider anything that even slightly contradicts the letter of the diet...JMO though.

Thank you, Caedmyn, for the input. Anyone else have experience w. breastmilk on the SC diet? I read about people paying exhorbitant amounts for goat colostrum, and it got me thinking!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Thank you, Caedmyn, for the input. Anyone else have experience w. breastmilk on the SC diet? I read about people paying exhorbitant amounts for goat colostrum, and it got me thinking!

My dd nurses 12 + times a day. To wean her would be to torture her, I'm not going to even consider that. She seems to be healing at least as fast as I am if not faster w/o worrying a bit about the bm other than keeping me on scd so that I know it doesn't have any illegals, other than lactose, in it. BM has a high level of lauric acid which is very healing to the gut. And is the the only food perfectly formulated for the human gut. If you think your dc has a major issue with lactose you can take enzymes yourself or give them to your dc prior to bfing that will help with the breakdown. Not something that I have really worried about or needed to.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
For everyone who is having trouble with enzymes for yeast killing, why don't you try the Candex or No Fenol? They do not have proteases.

You know, I have always assumed that the no fenol is the last to add enzyme. I haven't even considered doing it alone. I think I'll try that and see what happens.

Any ideas on why the proteases would be making my liver hurt??


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Homemade dairy question:
So I'm making homemade butter out of whole (raw!) cream. Last time I did this, I didn't clean the butter well enough of the buttermilk, and ended up having a stealth relapse, besides having this buttermilk product that I could do nothing with.

My question is, what can I do to 1)better safeguard the butter and 2) be able to use the buttermilk. I didn't do the cold water washing of the butter last time, so I"ll be sure to add that step. But I'm still a little nervous using butter made from uncultured dairy. If I yogurt-culture the whole cream first, will the butter still come out? If not, could I yogurt culture the leftover buttermilk? I know that the butter theoretically doesn't have lactose in it, but when I'm doing it myself I'd really like some added insurance.....







:

I have some organic pasturized cream and I have been making cultured cream (add 1 tbsp creme fresch and let it sit out for 24 hours) and then making butter from that. I had considered trying to make butter from the yogurt-ed cream but this process is easier to be honest. I personally haven't had any issues with this butter but perhaps I'm not as sensitive as you are. The other thing you could do is make ghee out of the butter. It wouldn't be raw any more but it also wouldn't have any lactose in it. I have been making my own ghee (well I did it once) and it came out pretty good. I haven't done it with my homemade butter yet, just with the kerry gold butter.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I have some organic pasturized cream and I have been making cultured cream (add 1 tbsp creme fresch and let it sit out for 24 hours) and then making butter from that. I had considered trying to make butter from the yogurt-ed cream but this process is easier to be honest. I personally haven't had any issues with this butter but perhaps I'm not as sensitive as you are. The other thing you could do is make ghee out of the butter. It wouldn't be raw any more but it also wouldn't have any lactose in it. I have been making my own ghee (well I did it once) and it came out pretty good. I haven't done it with my homemade butter yet, just with the kerry gold butter.

Thanks for the info! I think I may yogurt-culture it as an experiment because I'm going to do that for ice cream anyway - should be easy to just divert some to butter. I'll report back!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I was reading that liquid chlorophyll is good for healing, and I'm also thinking of taking a B complex vitamin...but I've also read that both chlorophyll and niacin in the B vitamin are chelators. Now I have a bunch of mercury fillings, so I'm wondering if I take anything that can chelate, am I going to have a bunch of mercury pouring out through my breastmilk? Or will it tend to stay put since the fillings are still in?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
My yogurt curdled.







Too hot?

I started reading an old HTG thread where some were using the Makers Diet for healing. I do have that and have read it, while I am still waiting on BTVC. (is this a sign that I have been waiting for it for over a month???) I started wondering if I shouldn't try that first. He claims improved health in 40 days, which is certainly appealing!







I am thinking to get DD1 to do this with me. I have mentioned in other threads about her nightwaking, dark circles and leg cramps. She also sometimes has flaky stools. The hardest thing will be getting her to stop grains.









I have to physically and mentally prepare for this. I asked DH last night if I am a bit crazy about all this food/nutrition/health stuff. He said it did seem a bit obsessed, but did qualify that by saying who is he to judge. Sigh. Why do I even ask??

Quoting myself just so this doesn't get lost in the lengthy discussion to see if anyone has any thoughts on the above.

And yea, my yogurt is gross.







I am eating it, but it is all curdled. Man, last time custard, this time this. I am losing hope.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

moonshine,
You don't need the book to begin the SCD. I waited and waited and waited for mine too. Personally, I wouldn't try the Maker's Diet first if you *know* you're going to be switching to SCD. I'd just read here and on the pecanbread site, etc. and start now.

As far as the being obsessive over the healing goes, I look at it this way: Learning about all of this, preparing for it, and carrying it out (for ourselves and our families) is TIME CONSUMING and almost all-encompassing. So . . . many who are not walking in our shoes might think it a little obsessive. Perhaps it is. I just know that if we do not do it, and figure it out for ourselves, nobody's going to do it for us yk?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I'm considering oatmeal, remind me to put up studies on oatmeal and gut stuff from Karen DeFelice's group.
I have also been thinking about adding oatmeal to dd2's diet. She's boycotting just about everything lately except for eggs and "cago!" (avocado)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
moonshine,
You don't need the book to begin the SCD. I waited and waited and waited for mine too. Personally, I wouldn't try the Maker's Diet first if you *know* you're going to be switching to SCD. I'd just read here and on the pecanbread site, etc. and start now.

All of you think that SCD is better than the MD since that is what you are all doing? I am not sure why I think that it would be easier. More options, I guess.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
All of you think that SCD is better than the MD since that is what you are all doing? I am not sure why I think that it would be easier. More options, I guess.

I started with the Maker's Diet...the 40 day thing attracted me, too. But I only did the first stage and then switched to SCD. It didn't do anything for me, but then the SCD hasn't done much of anything yet, either







. But I know someone on an earlier thread said the Maker's Diet helped them, so it might be enough if you have mild issues, who knows.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Great article summarizing gut/allergies/eczema and probiotics:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=5333732


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Does anyone want to read this article and try to explain it to me...I'm very confused. It basically says the leaky gut theory is a bunch of hooey. I have to post the whole article and not a link as it is a file on a yahoo group.

Leaky Gut Theory Cannot Be True
By Bee Wilder
June 1, 2006

What group is this and who is this person?

I wonder what her theory of food allergies, true anaphylactic reactions, are?

Histamine responses can be caused by bad gut bugs too.

In one way I agree with her b/c as you know I totally discount the "food allergy" theory per se. It's all about how the food is or is not digested, it's a functional problem, not an immune system problem. The immune system is only the alarm that something else is wrong.

And just for a related giggle, I agreed to RAST tests on DS today!









Our appt. is Thurs. This Ped/Homeopath/NAET practitioner is irritating. I think she does RAST tests just so she can bill some NAET appts to our ins. Which I guess is okay. I still don't know if I believe NAET b/c I discount the whole allergy thing to begin with...









Which btw the 2 times we talked about NAET she was so negative about it, sighing and saying, "Well it seems to help some people but not all." and "Oh no, not 10 appts, more like 16, and you are an hr. away..."







:

I have no idea what to do. Oh and she wants to give him a new homeopathic remedy b/c we don't seem to be seeing any results from new bowel nosode.







:







:







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Now, if I could afford it, my son would be getting EPD. Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization for our preferred allergy treatment of choice. It might be called something else now in the US. Cost for just one person would be $500 every 2 months. Sigh.

Sounded great until I read this: "The most common problem when EPD does not work is intestinal dysbiosis."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I saw a 2 hour long lecture by the creator of houston's enzymes, and he explained this.

Oooooh, lucky you, does Devin Houston really look like Kevin Bacon?







:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *april2462*
See here for some recent research on the effects of stress on rat gut permeability (lovely!) in which they talk about how the gut gets 'leaky'

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060520/food.asp


That's a great pic to prove how small the bacteria are in proportion to the epithelial cells ... so who's to say it's not them that are "leaking" and not the food particles.

I also had another thought... what about bfing mama's who notice dairy allergies in their babes. What is leaking to the bloodstream then? This REALLY should be studied. Seems simple to figure out whether dairy peptides in bloodstream/breastmilk is normal or not.

I need to win the lottery!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Thank you, Caedmyn, for the input. Anyone else have experience w. breastmilk on the SC diet? I read about people paying exhorbitant amounts for goat colostrum, and it got me thinking!

Let me put it this way: if I didn't wean DS, he wouldn't have needed the SCD. Even with my damaged gut.

Anyone who tells you breastmilk is not "SCD legal" is beyond stupid and has no idea of the amount of immunoglobulins, cytokines, macrophages and all that other good stuff in bm. Which btw increase with probiotic supplementation, I just read a research article today but lost the link.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey. We used the provocation neutralization testing method.

Can you tell me a little more about this method? Can a naturopath do this?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
You can do SCD with good enzynmes. Have you read Karen DeFelice's book Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disroders or something like it. She has a chapter on leaky gut and several refs to SCD. Anyway, Peptizyde(for casein and gluten) and HN-Zyme Prime(broad-spectrum) has allowed most people to get off restrictive diets. These are specially formulated enzymes. There are stories about kids who were down to eating like 5 foods and after a month on enzymes they could eat pretty much everything. The website is enzymestuff.com, it's very informative.

I haven't read her book yet - I'll look into it. I am currently taking Betaine HCL for about a month now, and just started NoFenol a few days ago. Maybe I just need to give it more time and back off the cheese. It seems to be the cheese for me and not the yogurt, I think. I'm not sure about DH because he's not doing SCD like I am. Thanks for the recommendation.







:


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.

Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Sounds like it's DP that needs convincing.

I'm at a crossroads with DS too. Several family members and DH as well think I'm being ridiculous about not taking him to a GI doc. However, do those chemicals they px really HEAL anyone? Do they even know how to heal, especially your garden variety GI or internist.

Figure out what they can tell you to help you learn what you need to know. Testing etc. But healing, I just don't believe it. I'm not saying we have all the answers here either, but steriods, etc. don't do squat.

What have you done to stop the D? What about Mercola suggestion of tons and tons of probiotics, he said a bottle in a day for traveller's diarrhea.

Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

Sounded great until I read this: "The most common problem when EPD does not work is intestinal dysbiosis."
ARGH!

Quote:

Oooooh, lucky you, does Devin Houston really look like Kevin Bacon?
He's a cutie. I don't think he looked like Kevin Bacon, maybe he was six degrees from looking like Kevin Bacon.









Quote:

Can you tell me a little more about this method? Can a naturopath do this?
It is done by an allergist, a special kind of allergist. I don't think naturopaths do this kind of testing. It's been so long. Our son did this provocation neutralization allergy testing when he was age 2 to 4, then he switched to EPD from age 4 to 6, then he didn't get the yearly booster you are supposed to get, and I think the EPD wore off when he was ten, just in time for him to regress around age 12. I wonder if EPD wearing off had something to do with his decline, but we'll probably never know.


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

caedmyn said:


> I was reading that liquid chlorophyll is good for healing, and I'm also thinking of taking a B complex vitamin...QUOTE]
> 
> Let me know if you can find a liquid chlorophyll that doesn't contain parabens. The one I bought (didn't read the label
> 
> ...


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
One thought is that regular allergy testing is hooey. The rast testing. I would buy that rast was hooey.
I had RAST testing done for dd. I went into it realizing that there is a high rate of false positives. I looked at it this way; at least I had *some* sort of guideline to go by.

I believe in it now because it did show that dd was highly allergic to wheat/gluten. As soon as we eliminated this from my diet her dark circles, red bumps and general *sick* look improved. (It took a good 8 weeks to get out of her system.) Her sleeping did improve too for a little while.

We found a pediatric allergist/immunologist who did the testing for dd - - who, by the way, explained the "leaky gut theory" to me that day!

Jane, I hope it'll show something about ds. One thing I wish I had done that I didn't do was have more foods tested. As dd grows, I realize that it would be really helpful now to have the foods tested that we left out all those months agao.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I haven't read her book yet - I'll look into it. I am currently taking Betaine HCL for about a month now, and just started NoFenol a few days ago. Maybe I just need to give it more time and back off the cheese. It seems to be the cheese for me and not the yogurt, I think. I'm not sure about DH because he's not doing SCD like I am. Thanks for the recommendation.







:

Yes, cheese is not good for yeast problems, the mold somehow aggravates the situation. Are you taking No-Fenol for yeast between meals?
the SCD yogurt and dry curd cottage cheese is pretty much the only dairy you can have if you have a yeast issue. I'm also eating kefir which is not lactose-free but I'm hoping the bacteria and good yeast will compensate for that.

Also, according to DeFelice, you should wait about 3 weeks to judge the enzymes. Die-off is very common during this time. Are you taking a broad-spectrum enzyme before meals?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

MommyofPunkiePie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
> ...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What group is this and who is this person?

I wonder what her theory of food allergies, true anaphylactic reactions, are?

Histamine responses can be caused by bad gut bugs too.

In one way I agree with her b/c as you know I totally discount the "food allergy" theory per se. It's all about how the food is or is not digested, it's a functional problem, not an immune system problem. The immune system is only the alarm that something else is wrong.


We should start a "I don't know what to do" club...no wait, we already have one going









It's candidasupport at yahoo groups...Bee is a 60-some year old lady who apparently had life-long problems with candida and finally cured herself. She has this exact protol you are supposed to follow. Diet (meat, lots of healthy fats, eggs, and low carb veggies), supplements (vit c, vit b complex, chlorophyll, vit e, CLO, cal/mag), antifungals, and probiotics (some cabbage liquid, it smells nasty!). My main issue with it (besides the fact that I'm not sure I can actually stay on the diet) is that you are supposed to follow it exactly, no deviations for different people/situations. Plus I'm not sure how accurate some of her stuff is--she told me that nuts are high in carbs! She finally clarified that she meant they have starchy carbs, but she was still saying they are high in carbs when they clearly aren't. Oh, and she cured herself of candida but now has some other problems, which kind of makes me wonder how healthy her protocol is long-term (she does follow NT guidelines).

She does have a file somewhere that has her allergy theory...I'll have to find it and maybe post it.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That's a great pic to prove how small the bacteria are in proportion to the epithelial cells ... so who's to say it's not them that are "leaking" and not the food particles.

I also had another thought... what about bfing mama's who notice dairy allergies in their babes. What is leaking to the bloodstream then? This REALLY should be studied. Seems simple to figure out whether dairy peptides in bloodstream/breastmilk is normal or not.

I need to win the lottery!!!

I've read somewhere (though I cannot find the reference at the moment) that bovine casein, at least, is too big to actually get into breastmilk. I've only seen one study that seeks to identify proteins in milk but I'm sure that they have yet to identify them all. (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum)

I'll go out on a limb with an hypothesis:

Let's suppose that mama, with her leaky gut, is leaking the microbes that thrive in that environment, in addition to large molecules (proteins, sugars, etc). Those microbes and molecules make it past the first few layers of cells into the bloodstream, then into the lymph system. Those microbes/molecules could be sequestered in the lymph nodes. The presence of foreign stuff in the lymph system presumably activates an immune response, with some proportion of those active components (not the microbes/moleculars) being secreted into breastmilk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
Ahhh!! What are parabens? I'm guessing they're bad?

parabens are synthetic compounds (emulsifiers, I think) that are also endocrine disruptors - methylparaben and propylparaben are the most common i've seen. yes, they are bad. look for them (and avoid) in skin care products too.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
parabens are synthetic compounds (emulsifiers, I think) that are also endocrine disruptors - methylparaben and propylparaben are the most common i've seen. yes, they are bad. look for them (and avoid) in skin care products too.

This is the chlorophyll I was thinking of getting
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=NWY-03501
ingredients besides chlorophyll are water, glycerin, and oil of mint. Does that sound okay?


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
This is the chlorophyll I was thinking of getting
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=NWY-03501
ingredients besides chlorophyll are water, glycerin, and oil of mint. Does that sound okay?

Are you seeing any benefit from the chlorophyll? I was taking some, but I couldn't tell a difference. Just checked mine and it doesn't have any undesirable extras. World Organics


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bluets*
I've read somewhere (though I cannot find the reference at the moment) that bovine casein, at least, is too big to actually get into breastmilk. I've only seen one study that seeks to identify proteins in milk but I'm sure that they have yet to identify them all. (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum)

I'll go out on a limb with an hypothesis:

Let's suppose that mama, with her leaky gut, is leaking the microbes that thrive in that environment, in addition to large molecules (proteins, sugars, etc). Those microbes and molecules make it past the first few layers of cells into the bloodstream, then into the lymph system. Those microbes/molecules could be sequestered in the lymph nodes. The presence of foreign stuff in the lymph system presumably activates an immune response, with some proportion of those active components (not the microbes/moleculars) being secreted into breastmilk.
That's an intersting hypothesis. Now if we could only all get together & do the research!

I don't believe that about the bovine caesin though. Can't be true.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Are you seeing any benefit from the chlorophyll? I was taking some, but I couldn't tell a difference. Just checked mine and it doesn't have any undesirable extras. World Organics

Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.

i think the glycerin also has mild antibiotic properties.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Supposedly it helps build the immune system, detoxifies heavy metals (mercury, lead, cadmium, etc.), and other pesticides in the body, improves the digestive system, improves energy levels and normalizes blood sugar and blood pressure levels.

Sounds great. How much do you take? On the bottle I got I think that it says something very little like 1t. I had been taking more. I now just take a little swig of the bottle because I could never pour w/o dripping and getting something stained green.









Oh, and mamas....I bought bones today. DH, who likes meat quite a lot, is not looking forward to the making of stock because he thinks that it will stink up the house. Which I am sure it will (we have never cooked meat in this house before), but I would have thought that he would like the smell.







I read him the recipe from NT last night, which just cracks me up, to show what lengths I am going for my/our health.







So the full-on plunge into SCD is starting soon.

ETA: Guess what just came in the mail??? No excuses now.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Any ideas on why the proteases would be making my liver hurt??

Well enzymes are recycled from bloodstream right? They must go thru liver?

Have you had tests done? (sorry if you posted about this before)

I'll check Karen's book...

I seem to remember her saying that all toxins are filtered out thru liver too so die off can tax liver.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Yes, cheese is not good for yeast problems, the mold somehow aggravates the situation. Are you taking No-Fenol for yeast between meals?
the SCD yogurt and dry curd cottage cheese is pretty much the only dairy you can have if you have a yeast issue. I'm also eating kefir which is not lactose-free but I'm hoping the bacteria and good yeast will compensate for that.

Also, according to DeFelice, you should wait about 3 weeks to judge the enzymes. Die-off is very common during this time. Are you taking a broad-spectrum enzyme before meals?

I've been taking them both at the start of the meal. (the betaine hcl and the no-fenol). Should I be doing it differently or adding even more (other kinds)?

I'm definitely off the cheese - the acne after eating it isn't worth the risk.

I'm trying to add more veggies in, too - I feel very much like all I eat is protein because of trying to go slowly. As more veggies come in season, I get to add more. I think if I can change those ratios I might feel better too.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Sounds great. How much do you take? On the bottle I got I think that it says something very little like 1t. I had been taking more. I now just take a little swig of the bottle because I could never pour w/o dripping and getting something stained green.










The recommendation I saw is 1 Tbsp 3x/day. How does it taste? I don't know if I can handle another nasty-tasting supplement!


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
The recommendation I saw is 1 Tbsp 3x/day. How does it taste? I don't know if I can handle another nasty-tasting supplement!

Ok, then I need more. I might be doing that much only once a day. Taste? Not so bad. I don't actaully mind it. It is very green tasting, if you know what I mean.

General question: how quickly did you add things back into your diet? I just realized that I am starting this just as summer is coming and everything is going to start showing up at our farmers markets. I would hate to miss out on everything.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

No-Fenol is for between meals, so that it can really get to work on the yeasties


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajessica*
No-Fenol is for between meals, so that it can really get to work on the yeasties



















Right then, I'll be changing that. Thanks!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
General question: how quickly did you add things back into your diet? I just realized that I am starting this just as summer is coming and everything is going to start showing up at our farmers markets. I would hate to miss out on everything.









You're singing my song. For me, about every 3-4 days I add something new. Although I've had a couple of times where I did one thing every other day. But then had to backtrack when I had a reaction (acne or loose stool).

So really, one thing every 3-4 days is best. Saves time in the long run, really.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I posted a little while back about thinking of adding oats to dd1's diet. (DO they or do they NOT contain gluten?) I swear the list dd's allergist gave us said oats were a good substitue but then NT says they are gluten containing grains.









Anyway, NT mamas what do you think of this:?

I am soaking Quinoa flakes in some whey and yogurt right now. I'm hoping that they'll be useable tomorrow - - maybe cooked w/some butter for dd.

I did not follow any particular recipe, I just added 2 tbsp. of whey and when I realized that was not enough, just dumped some yogurt on top, mixed it, and covered it up.







Is this okay?

I know I can post over in the NT thread, but when it comes to dd's I want the advice over here yk?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I posted a little while back about thinking of adding oats to dd1's diet. (DO they or do they NOT contain gluten?) I swear the list dd's allergist gave us said oats were a good substitue but then NT says they are gluten containing grains.









Anyway, NT mamas what do you think of this:?

I am soaking Quinoa flakes in some whey and yogurt right now. I'm hoping that they'll be useable tomorrow - - maybe cooked w/some butter for dd.

I did not follow any particular recipe, I just added 2 tbsp. of whey and when I realized that was not enough, just dumped some yogurt on top, mixed it, and covered it up.







Is this okay?

I know I can post over in the NT thread, but when it comes to dd's I want the advice over here yk?

I think oats do have gluten but not very much. If I remember right you only need 2 Tbsp. of whey/yogurt/whatever per cup of grains, so that should be plenty unless you have more than a couple of cups of grains.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I used 1 c. of grains (well, flakes actually). Is it possible to use too much yogurt? And do I cook them just like that after soaking?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Thank you, Caedmyn, for the input. Anyone else have experience w. breastmilk on the SC diet? I read about people paying exhorbitant amounts for goat colostrum, and it got me thinking!

Let me put it this way: if I hadn't weaned DS he probably wouldn't have needed the SCD. Or at least it would have worked for him.

BM is liquid gold. Anyone who says BM is not "SCD legal" is an idiot. Macrophages, cytokines, immunoglobulins, probiotics. And raw proteins and raw fats that are easily digestible and enzymes too.

I was just reading the other day about how the immune components in BM are increased by mama taking probiotics too.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I got the book my Dr recomended. Fat Flush Plan. She has a whole section about liver stuff. She also thinks that my pain is my liver acting up. I still don't understand why enzymes would make my liver hurt but perhaps some of you have some insight????

Anyhow... The book is extremely low fat except for flax oil. I am wondering if I should cut way back on the fat in my diet to give my liver a break. Thoughts??? What the author has to say makes a lot of sense and really isn't that different from scd, it is in fact more restrictive at first with few things allowed that wouldn't be allowed on scd. I have done more reading about livers and I do think that mine isn't coping well but I'm struggling to figure out how to support it outside of what I am already doing. (suppliments for liver support and gal bladder support that my chiro recomended.)

Oh and good news! I'm getting dd in to see a new Dr next week! I was surprised at how quickly we could get an appointment once we finally got our insurance approved (today). This Dr also does maternity care up through 35 weeks (she then transfers you to someone else for the actual delivery). She may be the ticket for me to watch my thyroid levels through pg (if I can ever get pg) since my lay midwife can't do that and my Dr who had aggreed to do that is quitting at the end of next month. I've got lots of fingers and toes crossed about her.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Annikate, it was in the BTVC book, about bacon being legal to eat once a week. Or maybe it was on the website? Silly mommy brain, can't even remember what I did yesterday!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks Pookietooth! I must've skipped right over that. Guess what I'm gonna have for breakfast tomorrow!







:


----------



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm not sure if I beleive that food proteins are too big to pass through a leaky gut. I do know that while breastfeeding, if I ate anything that dd tested allergic to, I would see reactions. And there would be reactions to foods that she hadn't been tested for, but that I consistently saw problems with.

One of the allergists I saw did say that he beleived it was impossible to pass allergens through breastmilk. His theory was that it was the actual food residue on the mom's mouth, hands, etc, and crumbs in the environment that the child was reacting to. I didn't put much stock in that cause he also told me that since dd was 8 months old, she needed to be weaned cause my milk wasn't good anymore. I never saw him again.

It is true that rast testing isn't completely accurate. But it can sometimes confirm suspicions. And maybe the biggest thing for me is that rast testing gives me credibility when talking to other people about her allergies.

I have heard before of people that are allergic to foods, but then can tolerate those same foods when they are organic. Most of the people I know with allergies, though, can't tolerate the allergic foods whether they are conventional or organic. I do know that dd has near anaphylactic reactions to contact exposure to organic milk. Organic may be the answer for some people, but not for dd.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Mamas, I need help.

My head is swimming. I just finished reading this thread, and I've read some of the sticky above. There is just so much to take in.

Can I explain our situation and ask for your advice?

DD (10 mths) was born in a hospital (our other children were born at home), and I unfortunately received antibiotics while in labor. After she was born, we figured out that she was dairy sensitive (she would throw up a lot and have really bad gas). When I eliminated it, she was just fine. At about 5 or 6 mths old, I added it back in, in small amounts. She didn't seem to have any issues with it.

Then, when dd was 8 mths old, a lot of things happened all at once, like within a couple of weeks. I'm still trying to figure out how/if they're all related.

1) Dd had a bad diaper rash that persisted. After a week, I realized it was a yeast rash
2) We moved to a really dry climate, much drier than we were accustomed to
3) We fed dd a lot of crackers/dry cereal type things just after this move because things we were so chaotic and they were easy to give her
4) The yeast spread to her underarms, and behind her knees
5) Eczema (the weepy kind) showed up behind her knees and under her arms, as well (though at the time I didn't know it was eczema; I thought it was just yeast)

I went back to a dairy free diet and I also cut out wheat (because I'm not sure if the crackers/cereals triggered the eczema and/or the yeast) and soy (for good measure, I suppose). I wish I could figure out the mechanism behind this all.

I've been on this elimination diet for 1 week and dd has shown improvement. But then, the rash appeared behind one knee just two days ago and it looks worse today. I don't know why and it's very frustrating. I'm trying to figure out if there's another food I'm eating that she's sensitive to. I ate lots of eggs, but that's not unusual. I ate some pecans and some shrimp. Yep, basically everything that's considered a "top allergen."







:

I haven't been consistent in giving her probiotics, but I started again today. I need to get some CLO--Can someone give a dosing recommendation?

Also, what enzymes should I give in this situation? I read on the sticky about some that are to replace a dairy, wheat and soy-free diet (which I'd like to do eventually), but also an enzyme formula for yeast. Any suggestions on what to take--both myself and dd?

BTW, we don't vax, we eat mostly organic and all that. We have no family history of allergies. I would post on the eczema tribe thread, but I really believe the antibiotics I got in labor were the beginning of my dd's problems. Please help!

TIA


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Chinese Pistache
I will start with a few of your questions that I can help with. The recurrence of the rash is likely die off, most of us experienced things getting worse before getting better. It sucks bad. You may want to consider doing the SCD because it sounds like your dd's system (and yours!) is really fragile. The elimination will help only be keeping her from reacting to those things (which, are yeast feeders also, btw) but other allergens are likely to arise. This is really overwhelming and a great deal of info. Go to pecanbread.com and start reading. Know that in a week or two, you will have your head wrapped around enough of this to really start in.
As far as probiotics, the best is 24 hour yogurt. You aren't doing dairy, but does that include goat milk? JaneS is the goat yogurt queen here and will have helpful advice.
CLO, you should take at least 1 T of high vitamin CLO. There is a lot of info on this in these threads, but I am sure someone will have the link for how much to take. For now, take 1 T, but make sure it is the high vit. kind because the *ratios* of A, D and Omega's is key.
Likely you will need a digestive enzyme and a yeast killing enzyme for between meals. By need, I mean it will speed things up, not that you should start immediately








Stick with us here, there are some fab and super knowledgeable mamas here.


----------



## april2462 (May 15, 2006)

As a gluten intolerant person, I tried researching the oatmeal question, since it was such a staple for us, and still is for the rest of the family. What I concluded was that oats do not contain gluten. However, they contain a protein similar to gluten that can cause a similar gluten reaction in some people. In studies, many celiacs can handle oatmeal without symptoms or (visible) damage to their intestinal tracts.
It never worked for me, unfortunately, so I've stayed oatfree for the time being. I've heard on the askshelley.com web site that Bob's has a wheat and corn free rice hot cereal that is yummy and possibly organic, and Lundberg's does as well. I'm still grain free but hoping to check those out one day!


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok so I don't get how you can eat bacon once a week. Won't that me consuming sugar? How is that being fanatical? That just doesn't make since to me.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Ok so I don't get how you can eat bacon once a week. Won't that me consuming sugar? How is that being fanatical? That just doesn't make since to me.
Doesn't make sense to me either and while I keep saying I'm going to have some turkey bacon, I just can't bring myself to eat it yet.

I have not found the source of this to read myself, however, but would like to so I can find out the thinking behind it.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
parabens are synthetic compounds (emulsifiers, I think) that are also endocrine disruptors - methylparaben and propylparaben are the most common i've seen. yes, they are bad. look for them (and avoid) in skin care products too.

I think they are preservetives, they are in almost every skincare product except for Aubrey and a few others. They have been found in cancereous cells. It's best to avoid them completely.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I posted a little while back about thinking of adding oats to dd1's diet. (DO they or do they NOT contain gluten?) I swear the list dd's allergist gave us said oats were a good substitue but then NT says they are gluten containing grains.









Anyway, NT mamas what do you think of this:?

I am soaking Quinoa flakes in some whey and yogurt right now. I'm hoping that they'll be useable tomorrow - - maybe cooked w/some butter for dd.

I did not follow any particular recipe, I just added 2 tbsp. of whey and when I realized that was not enough, just dumped some yogurt on top, mixed it, and covered it up.







Is this okay?

I know I can post over in the NT thread, but when it comes to dd's I want the advice over here yk?

Oats do have gluten. However, for some reason they help heal leaky gut (DeFelice includes a research on her website and book)... (I guess taken with enzymes to break down the gluten).
Also, NT discourages any flakes (extrudated cereals). I would suggest whole quinoa instead, esp. because it has no gluten, or very minimal... According to NT it's very beneficial for nursing mothers.

I don't think you have to stick to amounts, just slap some yogurt in there... or whey...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*

I've been on this elimination diet for 1 week and dd has shown improvement. But then, the rash appeared behind one knee just two days ago and it looks worse today. I don't know why and it's very frustrating. I'm trying to figure out if there's another food I'm eating that she's sensitive to. I ate lots of eggs, but that's not unusual. I ate some pecans and some shrimp. Yep, basically everything that's considered a "top allergen."







:

I haven't been consistent in giving her probiotics, but I started again today. I need to get some CLO--Can someone give a dosing recommendation?

Also, what enzymes should I give in this situation? I read on the sticky about some that are to replace a dairy, wheat and soy-free diet (which I'd like to do eventually), but also an enzyme formula for yeast. Any suggestions on what to take--both myself and dd?

BTW, we don't vax, we eat mostly organic and all that. We have no family history of allergies. I would post on the eczema tribe thread, but I really believe the antibiotics I got in labor were the beginning of my dd's problems. Please help!

TIA

Your DD has some of the same issues mine does (yeast and eczema), although my DD's aren't antibiotic related. First, one of the problems with leaky guts is that elimination diets don't work very well--if you eliminate foods but don't fix the leaky gut it can just start reacting to other foods. The SCD is designed to fix the gut, and you don't have to eliminate "allergic" foods unless they cause anaphylactic reactions or you don't want to deal with the reactions they cause (ie if dairy causes bad eczema flare-ups you may want to eliminate it for a while so you don't make your DD too uncomfortable).

Good brands of CLO are Green Pastures/Blue Ice or Radiant Life (you can only get them online as far as I know). I believe your DD can have 1/2 tsp/day and you should take at least 2 tsp/day.

Enzymes--a good website is www.enzymestuff.com. Recommended brands are Enzymedica (available at HFS's) or Houston's. You would take the enzymes. There are also enzymes recommended for killing yeast that you take in between meals (Enzymedica Candidase, Houston's No-Fenol & Peptizyde, Candizyme, Candex). If you do enzymes, just be sure to start slow as they can cause bad die off symptoms and/or affect your babe if you go too fast.

Probiotics--homemade 24 hr yogurt is recommended, your DD might tolerate goat yogurt if she can't do cow. Or you can try making yogurt from coconut milk or almond milk, or, if you like kimchi or sauerkraut, there's a cabbage rejulac that's supposed to be a good probiotic--it's very easy to make. If you give your DD a probiotic, make sure it only contains bifidus as that is the strain of good bacteria that is supposed to be in babies' guts.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I've been taking them both at the start of the meal. (the betaine hcl and the no-fenol). Should I be doing it differently or adding even more (other kinds)?

I'm definitely off the cheese - the acne after eating it isn't worth the risk.

I'm trying to add more veggies in, too - I feel very much like all I eat is protein because of trying to go slowly. As more veggies come in season, I get to add more. I think if I can change those ratios I might feel better too.

If you take No-Fenol with meals they help break down phenolic foods such as some vegetables and fruits. If you take them between meals they will seek out other cellulose to eat, which is yeast (cellulose+protein). Now it's better to take it with a protease to help clean up the debris, dead yeast cells, such as bromelain or papain if you have no phenol issues, or other high protease product. That's for yeast.

If you have trouble digesting casein/gluten (they are hidden in a lot of foods), Peptizyde could help. Digest Gold is supposed to have peptidase, too, but not as much as Peptizyde. Peptizyde seems to be popular and working great but I haven't read anything about whether Digest Gold is successful or not, but it's a broad spectrum enzyme, so it's good for most foods.

I guess you have to experiment because every brand and formula has different enzyme combinations and amounts, so if one doesn't work the other still could. And give it 3 weeks.

This is all from the "enzyme book".


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajessica*







Chinese Pistache
I will start with a few of your questions that I can help with. The recurrence of the rash is likely die off, most of us experienced things getting worse before getting better. It sucks bad. You may want to consider doing the SCD because it sounds like your dd's system (and yours!) is really fragile. The elimination will help only be keeping her from reacting to those things (which, are yeast feeders also, btw) but other allergens are likely to arise. This is really overwhelming and a great deal of info. Go to pecanbread.com and start reading. Know that in a week or two, you will have your head wrapped around enough of this to really start in.
As far as probiotics, the best is 24 hour yogurt. You aren't doing dairy, but does that include goat milk? JaneS is the goat yogurt queen here and will have helpful advice.
CLO, you should take at least 1 T of high vitamin CLO. There is a lot of info on this in these threads, but I am sure someone will have the link for how much to take. For now, take 1 T, but make sure it is the high vit. kind because the *ratios* of A, D and Omega's is key.
Likely you will need a digestive enzyme and a yeast killing enzyme for between meals. By need, I mean it will speed things up, not that you should start immediately








Stick with us here, there are some fab and super knowledgeable mamas here.









Thank you so much, mamajessica







I'll get on pecanbread.com today. I have a couple follow questions, if that's okay.

I notice that many people here are making their own yogurt, but I won't be able to do that for a couple weeks (we aren't living in our own home and it's tough to use our relative's kitchen). Can goat's milk yogurt be purchased?

Can anyone give me a brand name for the CLO and the digestive and yeast killing enzymes?

Also, should *I* just take the CLO and enzymes or should I be giving them to my dd, too?

TIA


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Thank you so much, mamajessica







I'll get on pecanbread.com today. I have a couple follow questions, if that's okay.

I notice that many people here are making their own yogurt, but I won't be able to do that for a couple weeks (we aren't living in our own home and it's tough to use our relative's kitchen). Can goat's milk yogurt be purchased?

Can anyone give me a brand name for the CLO and the digestive and yeast killing enzymes?

Also, should *I* just take the CLO and enzymes or should I be giving them to my dd, too?

TIA

You can give CLO to your baby, too. Enzymes can be sprinkled on lukewarm foods, mixed in almost anything. Enzymedica or Houston are the most recommended.
Store-bought yogurt is not lactose-free because they don't ferment it long enough (24 hours or more). If you can't make your own, try probiotics first. Natren's Life start is just bifidus infantis, I think. Pecanbread.com has other recommendations.

I was also treated with abx during labor... both times (I have group B strep)
DD#1 has eczema and yeast rashes on her bum, DD#2 has yeast rashes every once in a while, but no eczema hopefully because I'm on SCD and she is not eating cereal. She still has yeast that I passed on to her but hopefully won't develop eczema like my older DD. And of course I have the worst white tongue, hand-eczema and itching down south.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Day 1 of SCD intro diet. Where would be the appropriate smilies?














:














Actually, I am just super low energy. I would hate to know what I would feel like had I been consuming things like grains before starting. Jane, you would be proud of me, I am cooking away a beef stock right now. The smell is a bit







I had eggs, dccc and yogurt for breakfast. I am right now trying to psych myself up for lunch. I have thawed out ground beef to make.... it has been 7 yrs since eating any meat!!!!!!!!!!!









Can I really get through more than one day of this intro diet??? I also have to go work later today, manual labor. (I am a massage therapist.) Wondering how my energy is going to be for that.

Ok. Deep breath. Going to attempt it. I really hope I don't get sick.







:


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

now why is it that every time we get a pressure front marching across the midwest, my joints and my migraine tell me before the weather channel does?

and when does the weight loss taper off?

i've lost enough weight now that i'm re-experiencing the effects of relaxin, presumably as it gets released from shrinking fat cells - laxity in my pelvic/SI joint (so my pelvic instability has returned) and in my shoulder girdle. in fact, i wrenched my shoulder BADLY during the night 1.5 wks ago - i heard it rip and pop as i shifted in bed. and after putting up with much discomfort for all of last week, when the migraine came crashing down on me in the wee hours of saturday morning and continued into the wee hours of sunday morning, i reached for an Aleve (out of desperation at 4am or so) and promptly undid at least a few weeks of healing. my headache went away and never came back but my joints are still aching.

i guess the good news is that my hypothesis that men are usually about 3 months behind women has been demonstrated yet again. my dh has finally realized that he needs to heal his gut too. 3 months from the time i had my realization. 3 months of "when are you going to eat X again?" or "when are you going to stop popping those pills?"


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I'm definitely off the cheese - the acne after eating it isn't worth the risk.

I'm either reacting to cheese as well, or my baseline right before my period is _awful_. Does it make any sense why I would react to cow cheese but not to 24 hour cow yogurt? Any opinion on whether it's worth it for me to try goat cheese? Lordy, it takes on average about 4 days for the reaction to show itself, which means it only abates about 4 days after I stop







: The lag time really shakes my certainty, but it's the _only_ new food I've done.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Does it make any sense why I would react to cow cheese but not to 24 hour cow yogurt?

most cheese isn't cultured. yogurt and kefir are cultured (as are the various raw-milk goodies in the NT book). we know that the culturing breaks down lactose but i wouldn't be surprised if it also broke down proteins into a more digestible form.

have you tried using your yogurt to make yogurt cheese?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
most cheese isn't cultured. yogurt and kefir are cultured (as are the various raw-milk goodies in the NT book). we know that the culturing breaks down lactose but i wouldn't be surprised if it also broke down proteins into a more digestible form.

have you tried using your yogurt to make yogurt cheese?

I haven't yet, but I'm going to be pointed that way. Your explanation does make a lot of sense. I'm disappointed that I can't have cheese, but can't complain since I can do the yogurt - I missed dairy!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I'm either reacting to cheese as well, or my baseline right before my period is _awful_. Does it make any sense why I would react to cow cheese but not to 24 hour cow yogurt? Any opinion on whether it's worth it for me to try goat cheese? Lordy, it takes on average about 4 days for the reaction to show itself, which means it only abates about 4 days after I stop







: The lag time really shakes my certainty, but it's the _only_ new food I've done.

Yes, because of the mold in cheese that's not in the yogurt. One of the brilliant Mamas pointed that out to me earlier.

I'd assume goat cheese would bring about the same response if its the mold. Mold feeds the yeasties.







:


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i doubt that mold feeds the yeasties. i would think that one wouldn't want mold because mold is just MORE yeasties (of a variety of species).


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

moonshine - I hear you. I started yesterday and today is even worse! I can hardly think straight from major, major brain fog, my whole body aches, including my head. My eyes feel like they will pop out of my head, even they ache too. Man this is rough but I keep telling myself that it means the diet is working and I curse those little bugs







: I haven't done this much cooking or washing of dishes in the last two months combined. The only consolation so far is that the food really isn't that bad. Limited maybe but not bad at all. I did add applesauce in this afternoon (after 1 1/2 days) because ds wasn't jivin' with the chicken soup thing any more. And I think I feel bad, boy he is a total crab today. Not fun when you already feel like


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Can kefir cause die-off or it makes candida worse due to the alcohol?
I added kefir to my diet about 5 days ago and I had a headache for 3 days straight, felt sleepy all day and my rashes are worse. I wonder if I should back off...


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
i doubt that mold feeds the yeasties. i would think that one wouldn't want mold because mold is just MORE yeasties (of a variety of species).

Oh, right. Maybe that's what I meant.


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## CrunchyGranolaMom (Feb 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Let me put it this way: if I hadn't weaned DS he probably wouldn't have needed the SCD. Or at least it would have worked for him.

BM is liquid gold. Anyone who says BM is not "SCD legal" is an idiot. Macrophages, cytokines, immunoglobulins, probiotics. And raw proteins and raw fats that are easily digestible and enzymes too.

I was just reading the other day about how the immune components in BM are increased by mama taking probiotics too.

Hi Jane,

Thank you! The "idiot" part really resonated w. me! I couldn't believe that breatmilk wouldn't be "legal" (anyone else hate using that word? I love food--whether it's healthy for my family or not, it seems totally bizarre to call it "illegal"....)

My dd was exclusively nursed until 9 months, and weaned a little before she was 4. She's 8 1/2 now, so I'd have to figure out a way to add it back that wouldn't be totally weird. I was thinking of putting it in a smoothie. Do you think that would work?

btw, we seem to be a SCD/Crohn's success story! My dd was just dx'ed a month ago. Her SED rate was 90 (indication of high inflammation). With prednisone and a week in the hospital, it went down to 45 and stayed there. With 1 1/2 weeks on the diet plus the meds, it's now down to 10, which is normal!!!!!!

Hang in there mamas!!!!!


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## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

Also, any suggestions you can give me for packing food for a trip would be greatly appreciated. Especially things that would work for those in my family who are SCD and not be totally gross for my two teenage boys who are not. Trying to coordinate this all is more than my brain can keep up with (especially in hypoglycemia mode).

Thanks,

Kara


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Can anyone give me a brand name for the CLO and the digestive and yeast killing enzymes?

Also, should *I* just take the CLO and enzymes or should I be giving them to my dd, too?








How old is your dd? I give my dd Nordic Naturals orange flavored CLO and take Blue Ice cinammon flavored myself. We also use the Houstonbrand enzymes and seem to have success with them.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
We also use the Houstonbrand enzymes and seem to have success with them.

How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzymes and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *violin4*
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

Also, any suggestions you can give me for packing food for a trip would be greatly appreciated. Especially things that would work for those in my family who are SCD and not be totally gross for my two teenage boys who are not. Trying to coordinate this all is more than my brain can keep up with (especially in hypoglycemia mode).
Applegate Farms has three types of lunch meat that are legal: (This from the pecanbread yahoo group.) Smoked turkey (but ONLY the smoked kind), turkey bologna and turkey salami. Apparently the hot dogs are legal too. I've been eating the smoked turkey all along and don't have any problems w/it. The bologna is so-so but the salami is







imo.

When we travel we pack muffins, crackers, cheese, boiled eggs, & the Applegate turkey.
hth


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzyme and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???








about the bloating. I totally know what you mean. You don't *have* to feel awful when doing this diet. I only felt yucky about 5 days into it but I do remember feeling bloated A LOT. I attributed this to die off.

I say that the enzymes are working for us because we are not suffering any ill effects from them (except when I gave too much to dd too fast and she really had a bad reaction: sweating, tantrums, etc..) I also say that they are working for us because after almost 5 months of doing this I don't really use them anymore. I think they helped heal me quickly (or relatively quickly) - - not that I'm saying I'm totally healed yet. . . However, I am much better.

DD2 still takes enzymes w/every meal and seems to be doing okay as far as I can tell. (She still doesn't eat a lot of solids.)

DD1 on the other hand is my focus right now. She's the one using the most enzymes w/meals and between.

ETA moonshine - - it's way to early to tell if this diet is working or not. I think in BTVC it says give it a month.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Applegate farms hotdogs are yummy but expensive (of course!).


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh, I know it is too early. But ya know, before I started it, but knew that I would, I could think that it was going to miracously fix everything. Now that I am actually doing it, I would hate to find out that I am not going to get my fantasy.









As far as the bloating, it is my major symtom/problem. At least now I don't have to change pants by the end of the day, like I did a couple months ago. Course, I would like it also to help my depression, occassional acne (which is apparently a good sign that my hormone levels are up), and this strange "soft tissue mass" I have in my finger. But for starters I would just like the bloating to go away.

I think that my yogurt turned out just fine this time.







Thank goodness. I would not be able to make it through another day on the intro diet w/o yogurt. I did eat 2 hamburgers for lunch today, and even enjoyed it. But man, I am dying for a fruit or veggie!


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## CrunchyGranolaMom (Feb 5, 2002)

Moonshine--I hear you! I was also a super-long-term vegetarian before this, but dd didn't want to go near fish or fowl alone (who can blame her?), so I bravely took the first bite of turkey when she was in the hospital. Ironically, turkey was always my least favorite thing when I was a kid b/c it's so dry.

So here we are two 1/2 weeks into this, and I've even learned to make an okay chicken burger! I can't bear to *touch* meat, though. My dh, also a vegetarian since he was a teen (and he's 44) can, surprisingly, touch meat, but won't eat it yet. sigh. dd has asked him a few times to please join her. He says he's working his way up to it. I get a little frustrated about this. "She's your kid. You'd walk through fire for her! Eat the darn meat!". He says he'd rather walk through fire....


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Applegate Farms has three types of lunch meat that are legal: (This from the pecanbread yahoo group.) Smoked turkey (but ONLY the smoked kind), turkey bologna and turkey salami. Apparently the hot dogs are legal too. I've been eating the smoked turkey all along and don't have any problems w/it. The bologna is so-so but the salami is







imo.

When we travel we pack muffins, crackers, cheese, boiled eggs, & the Applegate turkey.
hth

Once I bought the hot dogs and read the label which included "spices"... well I e-mailed them to ask what kind of "spices" because this is a term used to hide MSG. They never answered so I won't buy this stuff again.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

This is what candex says about itslef:

For over six years, Candex, a natural candida treatment, has provided the most potent blend of plant based, fiber digesting enzymes available anywhere, and helped countless people live richer, fuller lives. Because of its success, imitations have begun to appear, most of which combine cellulase with mega-doses of protease (protein digesting) enzymes. Because protein digesting enzymes digest whatever proteins they encounter, they destroy the healthy bacteria (acidophilus, bifidus, etc.) that help to keep Candida Albicans under control, Since people who suffer with Candida symptoms already have low levels of healthy bacteria, this is clearly inappropriate.

They also say their product causes no die-off.

I think it's false advertising. I haven't tried their product but if it doesn't cause die-off, how can it kill the yeast? Also, proteases have not been porven to harm beneficial bacteria. Where's the research? If they digest whatever protein they encounter, then we are being digested away from inside out as we speak...


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Moonshine--I hear you! I was also a super-long-term vegetarian before this, but dd didn't want to go near fish or fowl alone (who can blame her?), so I bravely took the first bite of turkey when she was in the hospital. Ironically, turkey was always my least favorite thing when I was a kid b/c it's so dry.

So here we are two 1/2 weeks into this, and I've even learned to make an okay chicken burger!

Wow! Now that is dedication and commitment. It is amazing what we will do for our kids.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *moonshine*
As far as the bloating, it is my major symtom/problem. At least now I don't have to change pants by the end of the day, like I did a couple months ago. Course, I would like it also to help my depression, occassional acne (which is apparently a good sign that my hormone levels are up), and this strange "soft tissue mass" I have in my finger. But for starters I would just like the bloating to go away.
The diet (and supplements) have helped my depression. Check out this thread if you haven't already.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?


Not the lunchmeat turkey, the turkey hot dogs. Totally different. Unless they suddenly changed their ingredients since last week, LOL.

The bacon information I got from page 73 of BTVC; must be crisply fried.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Mamajessica, what brand of CLO do you use? And where can I read about the proper balance of CLO and vitamins? Thanks!

Caedmyn, thank you for all that great information, especially about the enzymes. I appreciate it.

EBG, thank you so much for your response. Isn't it awful to see our babies with these problems? I'm sorry you're going through it, too.

Annikate, my dd is 10 mths. Thanks for the info on CLO. I'll check to see what my WF carries.

I have a few more questions if that's okay:

Do I need to get the book on SCD or is the website information sufficient? From what I've read, I can see that the diet starves the yeast, but in what way does it actually heal the gut? Aren't the enzymes and probiotics really doing the healing, while the diet is just creating a clean environment for them to do their work? I ask because I intend to follow it, but I don't want to eat the dairy that is on the "legal" list (except for 24 hour yogurt when I can make it). Is it going to be counterproductive to not include all the foods that are legal?

I just finished Goodpapa's probiotics thread and noticed that many of you are over there, too.

What yogurt maker do you use?
What starter do you use?
What culture do you add (if any)?

If using probiotic supplements (either for ingesting in capsule form or as a culture), what brands/strains do you recommend?

Would anyone mind giving me the run-down of all the goodies you are taking/eating? I want to make sure I don't miss anything. I'm going to get on buying everything today (I'm giving dd Udo's infant and toddler formula probiotics for the time being).

So far, I'm looking for (prior to making my own yogurt):

Probiotics (still not sure on brand/strain)
Enzymes (both for digestion/healing gut and killing yeast)
CLO (need to make sure it includes proper vitamins)
Zinc?? Is anyone giving this? In what form?

Am I missing anything?

Thank you all so much for helping me. I'll pay it forward, once I have a handle on it. The last time I did this much research was when I undertook the vax topic. However, I had my whole first pregnancy and dc's babyhood to study! I feel like I'm trying to master trigonometry in summer school! ACK


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I just bought fresh local beautiful strawberries. I want to eat them!!!!!!!









Reading in BTVC last night, it says that after the diareaha and cramping subsides, you can move beyond the intro diet. For many w/o severe problems, 1-2 days on the intro diet is enough. So I have neither problem, actually today, have not been able to go at all.









I take it to mean that moving beyond the intro diet means slowly introducing foods one at a time, for example from stage 1. Is this correct? I did have a banana today with breakfast because I didn't have time for much more than yogurt and I was heading out the door for my work shift at the coop, and knew I would die of hunger. I actually felt quite weak from hunger by the time I got home.

I am dying to add more foods, but don't want to have to go through this again, and want to do it right the first time. I was wondering if the banana made my bloating and constipation worse, so have opted not to eat one now.

Any helpful suggestions on how to proceed very welcome!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Do I need to get the book on SCD or is the website information sufficient? From what I've read, I can see that the diet starves the yeast, but in what way does it actually heal the gut? Aren't the enzymes and probiotics really doing the healing, while the diet is just creating a clean environment for them to do their work? I ask because I intend to follow it, but I don't want to eat the dairy that is on the "legal" list (except for 24 hour yogurt when I can make it). Is it going to be counterproductive to not include all the foods that are legal?

I have to confess I don't have the book. I learned everything from the websites. pecanbread.com, breakingtheviciouscycle.info, breakingtheviciouscycle.org, scdiet.org, scdrecipe.com, healingcrow.com

The diet IS healing the gut by eliminating the offending foods-the complex carbohydrates that we have difficulty digesting. In this way you starve the bad bugs in the gut.
You also need to avoid known allergens in the beginning.

The enzymes speed up the healing process by pre-digesting the food, thus making it more available for absorption, they also take the load off your immune system, they clean out the dead cells, debris, toxins, etc. Taken between meals proteases fight bacteria, yeast, parazites and viruses, cellulases also fight yeast.

Probiotics- unfortunately most of them are useless, according to lab tests. Some brands that did pass the test: Culturelle-but it has inulin which is illegal, however, it's great for bacterial overgrowth
Natren's Healthy Trinity, Primal Defense but SCD doesn't allow bifidus...
So your best bet is the yogurt. The bacteria break down the lactose, so it's not a problem. they also break down most of the casein. Also, unpasturized dairy has healing properties. the next best thing is cultured non-homogenized milk. scdiet.org has probiotic recommendations, I think it's Lyo-san.

For starters most of us use Yogourmet Freeze-dried starter, most HFS carry it, also several websites online. $3.00-$5.00 for a box which has 6 1-quart servings. You can also use Dannon, full-fat plain. I also found this at whole foods:Erivan acidophilus yogurt, has no additives or other suspicious strains. It makes a yummy yogurt. But you can use any yogurt without gums, pectin and additives. You can also make yogurt with goat milk or coconut milk.

I use SAlton yogurt maker, available from Amazon or bedbathandbeyond.com

Zinc- I use Twinlab zinc caps, it has 30mg zinc, gelatin, MCT, purified water and mag. stearate. I think Houston Nutraceuticals has a liquid zinc?

CLO- I use Carlson's lemon flavored (ignore crazy warnings about removing vitamins), but if you want a high vitamin CLO, Radiant Life, Blue Ice, Garden of Life, Nordic Naturals are all recommended.

L-glutamine to heal the gut: vitacost has a 2 lb container for less than 3o bucks. NSI brand.

Vitamin C- sodium ascorbate or acerola (NOW), amla, amalaki powders

I also use a baby vitamin for my kids, Baby-Plex sugar-free which has no additives except for orange flavor and vit A and D from fish liver oil.

Kal dolomite powder or Super Cal-Mag from Nature's Life.
Don't forget sublingual B12, folic acid, magnesium, selenium....

Enzymes: Houston's Zyme Prime or Enzymedica Digest Gold for foods, Peptizyde for dairy/gluten and general "cleaning"
No-Fenol, Candidase, Candizyme for yeast


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

You might be referring to my mentioning that I thought that it _might_ be made without sugar, and I was going to check. It obviously isn't legal, because carageenan isn't legal. And I have no idea which turkey bacon I thought didn't have sugar because when we went to Whole Foods yesterday I checked, and you are all right, it does in fact have sugar. I must be misremembering when I was able to eat it. Sorry.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

HEY! I just checked my Applegate label too (been eating it all along without looking at the label)







and even the smoked turkey has carageenan! Geez, I just listened to the *gurus* over on you know what site and took their word.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.


----------



## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.

Butting in here to ask how you do your yogurt -- do you put the lid on the mason jar? And do you put the yogurt maker lid over the whole thing? Do you have to prop the lid open at all to regulate the temp? Give me the "for dummies" version, please!







I gave up on 24hour raw yogurt but if a mason jar can solve my problems I have plenty of those!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peri Patetic*
Butting in here to ask how you do your yogurt -- do you put the lid on the mason jar? And do you put the yogurt maker lid over the whole thing? Do you have to prop the lid open at all to regulate the temp? Give me the "for dummies" version, please!







I gave up on 24hour raw yogurt but if a mason jar can solve my problems I have plenty of those!

I use a mason jar with the lid on, but don't put the yogurt maker lid on at all.


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
If anyone wants an extra plastic yogurt container that came with the Salton maker, PM me and it's yours for the price of shipping. I switched over to mason jars because I do raw milk yogurt.

does the mason jar help with raw milk yogurt? how does it help? i have a salton and have been using raw milk, the consistency is a little weird, but it tastes ok so i've been eating it anyway.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Very, very interesting! Thanks for these.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Ok so I don't get how you can eat bacon once a week. Won't that me consuming sugar? How is that being fanatical? That just doesn't make since to me.

Elaine has said it has to be fried crisply so all the sugar comes out in the fat. Never made sense to me either.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Mamas, I need help.

My head is swimming. I just finished reading this thread, and I've read some of the sticky above. There is just so much to take in.

Can I explain our situation and ask for your advice?

DD (10 mths) was born in a hospital (our other children were born at home), and I unfortunately received antibiotics while in labor. After she was born, we figured out that she was dairy sensitive (she would throw up a lot and have really bad gas). When I eliminated it, she was just fine. At about 5 or 6 mths old, I added it back in, in small amounts. She didn't seem to have any issues with it.

Then, when dd was 8 mths old, a lot of things happened all at once, like within a couple of weeks. I'm still trying to figure out how/if they're all related.

BTW, we don't vax, we eat mostly organic and all that. We have no family history of allergies. I would post on the eczema tribe thread, but I really believe the antibiotics I got in labor were the beginning of my dd's problems. Please help!

TIA

Welcome!









Antibiotics were the cause with us too! Also I suspect hospital acquired bad gut bugs too ... DS's gut flora was weak because of me ... enabled colonization of some nasty stuff b/c of the environment.

Also full body eczema appeared in DS after starting cereals as his first food. It was yeast/bad bacteria growing out of contro showing up on the skin.

CLO dosing and recs here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Thank goodness you didn't vax!!!

((NO vaxing for any newbies reading this, okay? Promise me that at least until your babe's gut heals if you cannot say "never ever" like me.))


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Sounds like a discussion I might have w/a oncologist









You mean radiation or chemo? UGH

Is your family pressuring you?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Probiotics- unfortunately most of them are useless, according to lab tests. Some brands that did pass the test: Culturelle-but it has inulin which is illegal, however, it's great for bacterial overgrowth

Actually there is a version of Culturelle without inulin/FOS that is sold in regular drugstores in the wide box.
http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...Y-PLST-0-BRAND

The tall box sold in hf stores is a different formula with the inulin, weird huh.
http://www.vitacost.com/CAGCulturell...OPFEED-froogle


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
How do you define success? I am taking Zyme Prime and Wobenzymes and I can't quite tell what they are doing. Gas is mostly nonexistant now, but bloating continues. At this point I don't even konw if I will know when I am not bloating as I have lost any sense of proportion when it comes to looking at my stomach. (it just looks huge all the time)

Made it through Day 1. Actually, it wasn't so bad. So, if I didn't feel just awful does that mean I don't have that much to detox and am not that badly off, or is the diet not working for me???

Could you be constipated and that is why the bloating? You can try magnesium supplements for that.








re: Wondering if Diet is Working on Day 1

Actually I knew right away it was working for me but it really does take more time with most people. Plus I had several months of raw milk kefir before that, and sugar free wheat free diet before that, which really made a difference.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
What yogurt maker do you use?
What starter do you use?
What culture do you add (if any)?

Am I missing anything?

I made my yogurt in half gallon canning jars in oven. I heat up the oven to 150, turn it off and leave the oven light on. Put milk/starter in there between 100-110 and it stays there for the full 24 h. Do first with water to check temps. I need a pizza stone under the jars to keep warmth in there in winter and not in summer.

I use Yogourmet powder starter for my raw milk yogurt (not technically SCD legal but I'm convinced of raw milk benefits). I use ProGurt non dairy starter for DS's goat yogurt ... he reacts to cow dairy but does goat yogurt/butter just fine. Not cheese. Yes culturing yogurt does predigest the proteins.

Double check Cheat Sheet for other suggestions. I think coconut oil is a good thing to use regularly too.

Oh and zinc, I used OptiZinc by Source Naturals but DS gets uber expensive Brainchild


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
This is what candex says about itslef:

For over six years, Candex, a natural candida treatment, has provided the most potent blend of plant based, fiber digesting enzymes available anywhere, and helped countless people live richer, fuller lives. Because of its success, imitations have begun to appear, most of which combine cellulase with mega-doses of protease (protein digesting) enzymes. Because protein digesting enzymes digest whatever proteins they encounter, they destroy the healthy bacteria (acidophilus, bifidus, etc.) that help to keep Candida Albicans under control, Since people who suffer with Candida symptoms already have low levels of healthy bacteria, this is clearly inappropriate.

They also say their product causes no die-off.

I think it's false advertising. I haven't tried their product but if it doesn't cause die-off, how can it kill the yeast? Also, proteases have not been porven to harm beneficial bacteria. Where's the research? If they digest whatever protein they encounter, then we are being digested away from inside out as we speak...

Devin Houston thinks this is just marketing, to make their supplement seem different and not "old" as the newer ones could indeed be superior b/c they do contain proteases for "clean up".

I personally did not see die off, just improvement, when I had thrush while bfing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
I have an SCD question. I read on a thread here somewhere (that I can't seem to locate again) that Applegate farms turkey was SCD legal. I was all excited at the thought of a quick legal option but when I read the label it has carageenan in it. How can this be SCD legal then since Carageenan is on the list of no no's?

Also, any suggestions you can give me for packing food for a trip would be greatly appreciated. Especially things that would work for those in my family who are SCD and not be totally gross for my two teenage boys who are not. Trying to coordinate this all is more than my brain can keep up with (especially in hypoglycemia mode).

Thanks,

Kara

Whole Foods makes plain house roasted turkey and roast beef and we use that for deli meats. You could always just roast your own and get a cool electric knife (I've always wanted one of those...)

Trip ideas: waffles, muffins, cookies, peanut butter brownies, dripped yogurt and jam or sliced fruit sandwiches, hard boiled eggs, cheese, apple slices dunked in lemon juice so they don't turn brown. Fruit is so great this time of year: cherries, grapes, plums very portable.

Avocado and fresh salsa are portable for morning brunch eggs at restaurant. Cheese and SCD bread or muffin to round out salad, plain veggies, meat or fish dinner ordered at restaurant.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Can kefir cause die-off or it makes candida worse due to the alcohol?
I added kefir to my diet about 5 days ago and I had a headache for 3 days straight, felt sleepy all day and my rashes are worse. I wonder if I should back off...

Yes, there have been several people posting here at MDC saying they cannot tolerate the "beneficial" yeasts in kefir. I do think the alcohol can be a factor as well. Depends on what kind of bad gut bugs you have... if they are already producing alcohol. I knew I was on the way to healing when I could finally have wine. Even though SCD legal, I could not at all tolerate it in early stages, it went right to my head and made me nauseous.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
Hi Jane,

Thank you! The "idiot" part really resonated w. me! I couldn't believe that breatmilk wouldn't be "legal" (anyone else hate using that word? I love food--whether it's healthy for my family or not, it seems totally bizarre to call it "illegal"....)

My dd was exclusively nursed until 9 months, and weaned a little before she was 4. She's 8 1/2 now, so I'd have to figure out a way to add it back that wouldn't be totally weird. I was thinking of putting it in a smoothie. Do you think that would work?

btw, we seem to be a SCD/Crohn's success story! My dd was just dx'ed a month ago. Her SED rate was 90 (indication of high inflammation). With prednisone and a week in the hospital, it went down to 45 and stayed there. With 1 1/2 weeks on the diet plus the meds, it's now down to 10, which is normal!!!!!!

Hang in there mamas!!!!!









Wow, that is really awesome in so short a time!!!

I hate the term 'illegal' too but I guess it was picked to be clear as possible.

re: BM Smoothie
I do know that whirring around breastmilk does damage amino acids and probably other immune qualities. Wouldn't be *bad* but not necessarily the best ykwim?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Jane, you would be proud of me, I am cooking away a beef stock right now....

Ok. Deep breath. Going to attempt it. I really hope I don't get sick.







:

























I AM very proud of you. I know how hard it is, I really do!!

Go very very slow with meat. Only a few bites at first. Your system really does need to get used to digesting it.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think I'm going to try an anti-candida diet starting next Friday (gives me time to eat up all the nut butter and fruit in the house!). I really don't think the SCD is going to work for us, but we still have issues so I need to do something. I wonder what percent of people the SCD doesn't work for? Not trying to discourage anyone, I just wonder.

On the bright side, I picked up 100 lbs of grass-finished beef today







They gave us the wholesale price is we bought 100 lbs, so we did. It's all ground beef because DH doesn't like grass-finished steaks or roasts







I also got 14 qts of organic strawberries for .99/quart today--they were advertised for $2.99/qt but when I got there they were .99 so I figured I'd stock up and freeze them. Not that anybody cares, I just wanted to share my score


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If you give your DD a probiotic, make sure it only contains bifidus as that is the strain of good bacteria that is supposed to be in babies' guts.

I think this might be just for ebf babes. Once they start eating solids, their gut flora gradually becomes more like an adults. However, I have no idea of the cut off point in terms of age. I would really love to learn more about this someday.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I was reading that liquid chlorophyll is good for healing, and I'm also thinking of taking a B complex vitamin...but I've also read that both chlorophyll and niacin in the B vitamin are chelators. Now I have a bunch of mercury fillings, so I'm wondering if I take anything that can chelate, am I going to have a bunch of mercury pouring out through my breastmilk? Or will it tend to stay put since the fillings are still in?

Reposting this in hopes of getting more opinions (JaneS







).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I think I'm going to try an anti-candida diet starting next Friday (gives me time to eat up all the nut butter and fruit in the house!). I really don't think the SCD is going to work for us, but we still have issues so I need to do something. I wonder what percent of people the SCD doesn't work for? Not trying to discourage anyone, I just wonder.

It's somewhere at the BTVC site or book, I forget where or how much... I'm not much help right now







:

You, my DS and Pookietooth so far ... I know the fact with DS could be that his main bad bug is Proteus that feeds off of proteins.

I also think if you eat things you cannot digest in early stages (esp. fruits, raw or dried) this can definately be an issue but it's SO freakin' hard to stick to this diet to begin with. I'm having such a problem with DS and food lately, it's killing me.

However, 3 days of goat yogurt cultured with Reuteri capsules thrown in there and his poops are really solid and dark brown. (You all want to know that right?







) This is a nice trend so I hope it continues. (However, we've been here before and always slide back.)

I just want the kid to be able to eat the fruits he drools over!! Is that so wrong!? The poor kid cannot even do beyond Stage 2 here and some of those foods not even then.







:

We got an NAET treatment today, the initial "Balancing". It was wierd. I had to lie down on massage table, I thought I would be sitting. DS was between my legs holding onto my bare ankles (I kept thinking I should have shaved my legs for this!







) She muscle tested me, then turned me over and did karate chops or whatever on my back and I had to pant.







Then I flipped back over and she muscle tested again. DS had to wear the vial of Balancing Whatever in his sock for 20 min.







:

I feel very good, not sure about DS. I'd LOVE to see a difference with *something, anything* for goodness sakes!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Reposting this in hopes of getting more opinions (JaneS







).

Dunno. I know Andy Cutler says it's not a chelator, maybe you could search for comments at Autism Mercury list at www.onibasu.com?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

But if mercury is at all a concern, you might want to take vit. C at every meal and also be sure to take selenium.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So I got the book my Dr recomended. Fat Flush Plan. She has a whole section about liver stuff. She also thinks that my pain is my liver acting up. I still don't understand why enzymes would make my liver hurt but perhaps some of you have some insight????

Anyhow... The book is extremely low fat except for flax oil. I am wondering if I should cut way back on the fat in my diet to give my liver a break. Thoughts??? What the author has to say makes a lot of sense and really isn't that different from scd, it is in fact more restrictive at first with few things allowed that wouldn't be allowed on scd. I have done more reading about livers and I do think that mine isn't coping well but I'm struggling to figure out how to support it outside of what I am already doing. (suppliments for liver support and gal bladder support that my chiro recomended.)

Gonna bump up this again. Anyone know much about liver? I really think it may be the key for me but I can't figure out how to help it. I've done milk thistle and am now on a liver supporting herbal blend my chiro recomended. It seems to help but I feel stuck right now. Like it helps my liver cope but it doesn't help it get better kwim?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,







about the NAET treatments. That really cracked me up. I don't know a lot about it but have a friend who brought her son and has many success stories to tell.

I know what you mean about trying *anything*. I just tried CST w/dd on MOnday and the lady is coming back again this MOnday. She's a lymph specialist. I will ask her if she thinks CST could help your ds and get her opinon on it. She trained at the Upledger institute & really seems to know her stuff and came highly recommended. (I had her come for dd mainly for her sleep issues.) CST has been known to help TONS of things.

AND . . . guess what??? DD took a *2 hour* nap on TUesday and slept for *4 and a half* hours *straight* last night.

Did everybody hear me!!!????? This is unheard of. DD has only two or three times in her life taken that long of a nap and has only slept that long at night maybe five times.


----------



## WriterMama (Mar 27, 2002)

Where can you buy Culturelle?

Thank you


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Wow Annikate. Congratulations. Definitely have another session.

Patty -- I wouldn't cut fat. You are doing gallbladder support so I assume you have a gallbladder (can't say that I do). Do you have gall stones? Other issues?

caedmyn -- Those aren't on the top of any chelator list. I would worry more about your overall nutrition and giving yourself and the baby the nutrients needed to flush everything out effectively that will be in your milk with or without chelators.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

That's wonderful, Annikate!!!







:


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Actually there is a version of Culturelle without inulin/FOS that is sold in regular drugstores in the wide box.
http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...Y-PLST-0-BRAND

The tall box sold in hf stores is a different formula with the inulin, weird huh.
http://www.vitacost.com/CAGCulturell...OPFEED-froogle

Oh cool, I'll go get some! I got the tall box before SCD and I gave it up when I saw the inulin


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WriterMama*
Where can you buy Culturelle?

Thank you









Wal-Mart has it for about 17 bucks where the digestion stuff is. CVS and most health-food stores but it's more expensive there. Vitaminshoppe also has the tall version.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

after our CST session, i noticed that ds's teeth (the ones that had stalled especially) started coming in faster and easier, including the one from the early set that hadn't shown any sign of coming in yet. i wonder if CST helps to open up everywhere, ease tensions, etc. so that more than one aspect of the individual benefits.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

The extra Salton yogurt container has been claimed


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bluets*
after our CST session, i noticed that ds's teeth (the ones that had stalled especially) started coming in faster and easier, including the one from the early set that hadn't shown any sign of coming in yet. i wonder if CST helps to open up everywhere, ease tensions, etc. so that more than one aspect of the individual benefits.
Yes! That's exactly what my therapist said although I haven't seen any signs of movement in dd's teeth yet. (She takes forever to get teeth!)
nak right now and OT but later I'll post a technique she taught me for getting the lymph fluid moving in that area.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
But if mercury is at all a concern, you might want to take vit. C at every meal and also be sure to take selenium.

At some point I'm going to get hair tests done. Do you think there would be any difference in the results before vs. after we heal (assuming that happens)? Also, if I get DD tested and her mercury levels are okay, would it be safe to assume mine are okay, too, or could I have high levels that aren't affecting her?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I also think if you eat things you cannot digest in early stages (esp. fruits, raw or dried) this can definately be an issue but it's SO freakin' hard to stick to this diet to begin with. I'm having such a problem with DS and food lately, it's killing me.


I'm glad you're seeing some change (for the better) with your DS









I've tried to be careful about things I don't digest--at least if I know I don't digest them. I did eat a lot of butternut squash for a while and I guess I wasn't digesting that, although I didn't realize it at the time. I know I don't digest the nuts well, either, although lately I've been seeing less undigested almond butter/meal so maybe that's a good thing.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
caedmyn -- Those aren't on the top of any chelator list. I would worry more about your overall nutrition and giving yourself and the baby the nutrients needed to flush everything out effectively that will be in your milk with or without chelators.

What supplements/etc should I look at for overall nutrition? The diet that I'm going to try recommends cal/mag (I'm doing bone broths for that), vit B complex with extra niacin, the liquid chlorophyll, vitamin E (non soy derived), and vitamin C. I'm already doing high vitamin CLO and a fair amount of CO. And I'm going to start a multi-mineral supplement.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
At some point I'm going to get hair tests done. Do you think there would be any difference in the results before vs. after we heal (assuming that happens)? Also, if I get DD tested and her mercury levels are okay, would it be safe to assume mine are okay, too, or could I have high levels that aren't affecting her?
Don't waste your $ right now because b'feeding skews the results & they won't be accurate. Andy Cutler's recommendation is to wait and use hair that is grown for "several months" after weaning has taken place. I've been







over this for almost a year until I finally decided to email hin & ask him personally.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Don't waste your $ right now because b'feeding skews the results & they won't be accurate. Andy Cutler's recommendation is to wait and use hair that is grown for "several months" after weaning has taken place. I've been







over this for almost a year until I finally decided to email hin & ask him personally.

I had never heard that until you posted it. Did he tell you why? Is it in the book (which I don't have)?

I am kind of luke warm on hair tests particularly for depression. Low zinc is related to depression and if you are low in zinc, your hair will grow slower and skew the results.

I wouldn't assume anything about a child from the hair tests or other tests of a mother. If one or the other is having health problems, I'd have that person tested.

caedmyn- that's a good supplement regimen. I would try that for a few months and see how you feel. You could have blood work and supplement for the specific results but otherwise I'd give this regimen some time to work.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

double post


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

in Ellen Grant's "Sexual Chemistry..." book, she uses (or used) blood, hair AND serum tests to gauge vitamin and mineral levels in her patients.

I wonder if b'feeding skews results in more than one way... I could imagine that hormones (particularly of mama) are different than when not b'feeding, so that might affect mineral/vitamin levels in tissues. Perhaps also certain tissues (be they blood or hair etc) don't sequester vitamins/minerals during the time a mama is b'feeding because those molecules are used in b'milk production.

Is there a smilie of me walking out on a limb?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

You know, Andy and I emailed back and forth so many times and I tried to be a short as possible -- I was asking about a private consultation and didn't want to ask *too* much over email yk?









What he told me when I asked him how/why b'feeding skews results was this:

Quote:

I've seen about 8 cases of breastfeeding mother hair tests, only one before and after lactation.
I bought the book that supposedly talks about b'feeding but there is nothing there except a small paragraph that doesn't really tell much.

Here's what he had to say when I asked whose test would be more accurate:

Quote:

I would have more confidence in your daugher's results.
I'm really turned off to the whole thing. I know the tests probably have their place, and I may even test dd again just for kicks but imo (if you're b'feeding), it's not worth the emotional stress and worry over it when you can't tell for sure what's what.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

On another note:
I can't find my copy of BTVC









Will somebody pls. post one of the recipes for cake *frosting*?

DD has a birthday party to go to tomorrow and I"m making a cake so I can smuggle a piece in for dd and hope she won't notice it's not The Birthday Cake.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
You mean radiation or chemo? UGH

Is your family pressuring you?

No, not too much. Otherwise, I just stop talking to them







But exactly like radiation or chemo. Radiation which is known to cause CANCER (of all things







), and chemo which utterly destroys your immune system. Tell me, how would I be able to kill the cancer if I do not have an immune system???

So silly


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

*NOTE: The big paragraph was written Wednesday night.*

I was just in the hospital from Friday evening through tonight. I went in for a belly ache with vomiting and lots of HORRIBLE, worse-than-labor pain. Threw up a few times at home then about three times in the ER. Got morphine- twice. Got admitted. They did CT scans, xrays, and other stuff. Took TONS of blood. Gave me plasma to reverse my coumadin before they did a colonoscopy. That showed nothing but they took biopsies. No diagnosis yet (except general ileitis, because my small intestine was inflamed on xray- or was that the CT scan?!) because I have to see a specialist who will look at the biopsy report and make a conclusion. They said it isn't Chrones because there isn't any diarhea usually with it. Food poisoning is possible but food allergy seems unlikely since its always something different that I ate right before. This has happened for years (at least 10)- only this time, they caught it DURING. Usually they say "You're not in pain now? We don't know. Go home." Or once the said I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics after a lot of tests but only in the ER- wasn't admitted. Other times it has been while I was pregnant and they said it was morning sickness!!!! (At 15 weeks and couldn't keep a thing down; another time they thought an ectopic pregnancy and when they found out I WAS pregnant (normal pregnancy of 5 weeks) they went off on that tangent and my ache eventually went away.) UGH!! I have a temp now which I'm keeping under control with advil and tylenol. I hope that works because I don't want to go back in! The colonoscopy showed not much. I couldn't eat while there really so I was on tea and broth and jello for most of the time then NOTHING yesterday from midnight until about 5 p.m.- I thought I'd DIE of hunger!!!! Now I'm on nutrtional supplement drinks and water and "as tolerated". I don't want to chance anything as I had very runny mashed potatoes (more like gravy and a bit of potato in it lol) earlier at the hospital and my belly started talking to me about "Grr.... why'd you do that? I have to work now..." So its just liquid nutrition for me for a bit I think. I'm freezoing with this temp so I got under my electric blanket. WRONG! That just make my temp go UP! It was 103.9! So, stripped off my clothes (had on a sweatshirt and sweatpants too) and took the blankets off my bed.... Taking tylenol and advil when I can and gonna rest. I did watch a whole TON of tv in the hospital! lol I rarely watch any tv so this was a funny experience for me. Watched a lot of "Deadliest Catch" on TLC and Price is Right and just whatever else caught my fancy.

*UPDATE:* Now its a couple days later (Friday) and my temp is still there but not as high. At about 100.something. I normally run in the low 97's. I also seem to be able to eat normal foods again, though I have yet to try meat. Afraid to! Meat and I don't usually agree anyway. (I copy and pasted this here because it was easier!)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So apparently cranberry is good for your liver. I'm drinking all my water with cranberry juice (the good stuff) in it. (4 oz juice 28 oz water) I'm peeing a ton more w/o really significantly increasing my fluid intake so I hope that means I'm doing something. I think my joint swelling is somewhat better than it was. Time will tell. It is super hot here today so that contributes.

Nathan- I'm not sure what to tell you but







: I hope you get some answers soon.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

That is so good to know about the cranberry juice--I'll pick some up. I have a feeling that my liver is in need of some kind of clense.

I hope you get answers too Nathan.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane,







about the NAET treatments. That really cracked me up. I don't know a lot about it but have a friend who brought her son and has many success stories to tell.

I know what you mean about trying *anything*. I just tried CST w/dd on MOnday and the lady is coming back again this MOnday. She's a lymph specialist. I will ask her if she thinks CST could help your ds and get her opinon on it. She trained at the Upledger institute & really seems to know her stuff and came highly recommended. (I had her come for dd mainly for her sleep issues.) CST has been known to help TONS of things.

AND . . . guess what??? DD took a *2 hour* nap on TUesday and slept for *4 and a half* hours *straight* last night.

Did everybody hear me!!!????? This is unheard of. DD has only two or three times in her life taken that long of a nap and has only slept that long at night maybe five times.

Annikate!!!

That is so wonderful! And has prompted me to call my CST to take my lil' guy back....hmmmm....maybe I'll take my 4yr old too. Its quite affordable, a lot less than I thought it would be ($10/visit for the lil' guys).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Annikate!!!

That is so wonderful! And has prompted me to call my CST to take my lil' guy back....hmmmm....maybe I'll take my 4yr old too. Its quite affordable, a lot less than I thought it would be ($10/visit for the lil' guys).









I paid $65 but she came to the house. Would've been $40 for office visit (an hour away.) I figured I'd pay about 20 bucks in gas anyway.

I'm sold on CST & am going to have her see dd1 - - maybe it'll help her bouts of constipation.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

I just got my digestive enzyme book so I haven't read it. Just so I know what i'm headed for are there different enzymes for different foods. For example, DD doesn't seem to digest most foods fully (always some in her poop). Will she need multiple enzymes or is there one "general" enzyme?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane, Gale Force and firefaery:

(And anyone else who has had success healing so far . . .)

I'm at the point where I'm thinking, *how* healed do I have to be?








I am really really getting tired of eating the same things over and over. I have been little by little incorporating some *illegals* into my diet and so far the only think I can say that's causing me problems is my mag citrate. (But I don't want to give that up.)

I really am amazed that I'm at this point already after only 4 1/2 months. I am anxious to try out some brown rice (brown rice pasta specifically) and other non-gluten grains. BUT . . . I also don't want to un-do all the healing that's taken place yk?

I'm really curious to know: How did you mamas do it? How did you know you were ready? Did you introduce illegals slowly and watch for reactions? What do you eat first?

BTW, I gave dd some buckwheat last night. I soaked it in yogurt first and then cooked it and added butter. She loved it!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chlobo*
I just got my digestive enzyme book so I haven't read it. Just so I know what i'm headed for are there different enzymes for different foods. For example, DD doesn't seem to digest most foods fully (always some in her poop). Will she need multiple enzymes or is there one "general" enzyme?
chlobo, I think on the cheat sheet sticky at the top of H&H Jane addresses this more in depth.
Short answer: yes, there are different enzymes that target different things. I'd start w/an overall enzyme like Houston's Zyme Prime.
There's a ton of information here.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

nak

please tell me this is normal! please??

We are on day 9 of an elimination diet (wheat, dairy, soy), but for the past 3 days have been doing SCD also. For the past 2 days, we've been doing probiotics, as well as the enzymes, and CLO. I'll start the Candex (?) enzyme tonight.

DD's eczema (underarms, behind knees) seems to be better--a little drier, less weepy. I did notice a few yeasty bumps under one arm, though, which haven't been there for a couple weeks. The yeast bumps on her diaper area are much better though.

She also has this rough rash all over her body. It seems kind of like eczema, but it began when we went swimming 3 days ago and I assumed it was from the sun and chlorine. The worst of it is on one cheek, and it looks the most like eczema. I've been rubbing EPO on it and it seems to soothe it.

She's developed dark circles under her eyes (not black-eye dark, but more apparent than I've ever noticed). Behavior-wise, she is her usual happy self. Oh, and her poop today smelled like yogurt, but wasn't really firm (toothpaste consistency and dark green).

Is this all normal? Is the "worse before it gets better" part? I feel so lost, and I'm so sad for dd that she has this problem.

Any words of wisdom?


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## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't know but wonder if she is detoxing...poor little thing (((HUGS))) poor mama too.


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Chinese Pistache

I am very new to this whole SCD thing myself but it sounds to me like you have done a lot of things all at once, the diet itself, probiotics, and enzymes. Some advice that I got while researching this diet was that I should start slow - that means do the intro diet and get into that, then add a small amount of probiotics (for me and ds, yogurt) and then in a month or so, add the enzymes. I think the intention is two-fold. One, you want to ease your body into it and not cause too much die off too quickly. Two, if you add a lot of things at once, you are not sure which of things might be causing your problems.

It does sound to me like your dd is detoxing. I am on day 5 and I definitely feel worse than when I started, bms are not normal for me and I just added yogurt this morning, still no enzymes. And, ds?





















. His behavior is all over the place. And whiney? Phew!

Maybe you could ease off on something, like stop the enzymes for now, decrease the probiotic... whatever you feel comfortable doing. Then reintroduce these things more slowly, or give your gut a little time to heal before adding one or the other back in.

This is a hard road. I keep reminding myself that I feel so bad because the diet is working! I imagine those bad little bugs screaming NOOOOO







and that helps a little.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
nak

please tell me this is normal! please??

We are on day 9 of an elimination diet (wheat, dairy, soy), but for the past 3 days have been doing SCD also. For the past 2 days, we've been doing probiotics, as well as the enzymes, and CLO. I'll start the Candex (?) enzyme tonight.

DD's eczema (underarms, behind knees) seems to be better--a little drier, less weepy. I did notice a few yeasty bumps under one arm, though, which haven't been there for a couple weeks. The yeast bumps on her diaper area are much better though.

She also has this rough rash all over her body. It seems kind of like eczema, but it began when we went swimming 3 days ago and I assumed it was from the sun and chlorine. The worst of it is on one cheek, and it looks the most like eczema. I've been rubbing EPO on it and it seems to soothe it.

She's developed dark circles under her eyes (not black-eye dark, but more apparent than I've ever noticed). Behavior-wise, she is her usual happy self. Oh, and her poop today smelled like yogurt, but wasn't really firm (toothpaste consistency and dark green).

Is this all normal? Is the "worse before it gets better" part? I feel so lost, and I'm so sad for dd that she has this problem.

Any words of wisdom?

Yes, definitely go slowly. I've found that my DD reacts to new things far more than I do. I had to stop all supplements after starting the diet and add things back in one at a time, and add the enzymes very very slowly (it took me a week to get up to 1/4 capsule per meal/snack, and two more weeks to get up to a full capsule per meal/snack).

You might want to stay away from chlorinated swimming pools--a couple of people here have had problems after their kids have been swimming. Apparently chlorine is very hard on damaged guts.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Don't waste your $ right now because b'feeding skews the results & they won't be accurate. Andy Cutler's recommendation is to wait and use hair that is grown for "several months" after weaning has taken place. I've been







over this for almost a year until I finally decided to email hin & ask him personally.

That makes no sense to me. I can see how maybe continuing to BF would increase the levels of mercury or stopping might decrease them, but I don't see how it wouldn't show DD's current levels of mercury. Am I missing something?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

He did say that dd's results would be more accurate than mine. It's totally frustrating & I found him to be quite vague about the whole thing. Plus, I'm a little







: that I spent another $25 or $30 on another one of his books which supposedly had info re. this.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, Gale Force and firefaery:

(And anyone else who has had success healing so far . . .)

I'm at the point where I'm thinking, *how* healed do I have to be?







I am really really getting tired of eating the same things over and over. I have been little by little incorporating some *illegals* into my diet and so far the only think I can say that's causing me problems is my mag citrate. (But I don't want to give that up.)

I really am amazed that I'm at this point already after only 4 1/2 months. I am anxious to try out some brown rice (brown rice pasta specifically) and other non-gluten grains. BUT . . . I also don't want to un-do all the healing that's taken place yk?

I'm really curious to know: How did you mamas do it? How did you know you were ready? Did you introduce illegals slowly and watch for reactions? What do you eat first?

BTW, I gave dd some buckwheat last night. I soaked it in yogurt first and then cooked it and added butter. She loved it!









I've had _some_ healing success, but I've only been doing this for going on 6 weeks. But I did want to chime in that, when I dream about starting to intro illegal foods <sigh!>, I think it's important to stick with the stuff that is most easily properly-prepared. Any kind of pasta is likely not have been properly soaked, plus it's extruded and can't be cooked for long enough, NT-wise. I've wondered if pasta is ever a good idea to eat, for the reasons above. The buckwheat that you made your daughter would be a good first step, since you do such a good job of prepping it, and it's gluten-free if I remember correctly. But I can't speak much to how you know if you're ready - I hope to be asking that question myself in a year or so


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Annikate -- I think the only thing you can do is a trial run and see how you feel. I didn't eat grains at all in the beginning and then I tested millet and reacted so I didn't eat grains for several more months. Now I can go to a restaurant and eat without any major discomfort, just the usual bloating or over-stuffed feeling I associate with grains.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
You might want to stay away from chlorinated swimming pools--a couple of people here have had problems after their kids have been swimming. Apparently chlorine is very hard on damaged guts.
Yup, that was dd. She regressed big time after we started swim lessons - - spitting up again (her old reflux came back), not sleeping at all, all the old symptoms she had before we started SCD. I pulled her out and won't bring her back or let her in our pool until (maybe) next summer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Annikate -- I think the only thing you can do is a trial run and see how you feel. I didn't eat grains at all in the beginning and then I tested millet and reacted so I didn't eat grains for several more months. Now I can go to a restaurant and eat without any major discomfort, just the usual bloating or over-stuffed feeling I associate with grains.
I'm a little afraid to try yk? I definitely won't do potatoes (probably ever again) but I may try brown rice. (Totally forgot about soaking - - thanks Shanna!)
Funny thing, I'm feeling so *heavy* from all the protein.







I'm over it.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

On intro Day 4 and added banana 2 days ago and green beans last night. Right after eating the beans yesterday, I had a bit of tummy ache, but nothing too severe. But it is the first stomach ache since starting (even not after eating meat!). I did have a normal-size stool this morning though, first time since starting. (sorry TMI!) I just had some more green beans now and stomach is again a bit off again. Should I move on to another green item, or just proceed? I would really love to eat something other than meat, broth, eggs, yogurt, dccc and bananas. I know you all can relate. Well, I am drinking some water kefir, but not too much. I just started brewing some of Gale Force's grains, and the rest of the family isn't drinking it so much. I still don't think that yeast is precisely my problem, although who knows, maybe I am kidding myself. (spit test was neg!







)


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

I am hoping for some insight or advice here. Today is day 5 of scd. We have introduced applesauce, pearsauce and spinach. This morning for breakfast we had 24 hour yogurt made with cow's milk, which I test IgG allergic to (ds has not been tested) and a banana (both new additions). Ds has not really eaten well the last three days. He is saying no to all the food. Today he ate the yogurt and banana, scrambled eggs, pearsauce, cooked carrots with a couple of small pieces of chicken, more pearsauce, the intro cheesecake and that's all. I worried all day that he was not getting enough protein although he is nursing like a newborn - every two hours. When should I begin to worry that he is not getting enough food? He is eating much less than he did before we started and he does seem hungry, just not interested in THIS food.

Also, tonight he has a fever of 102. Is this related to die off because of the yogurt? Coincidence? Response of his immune system to the diet? He has no other symptoms of cold or anything else.

After eating the yogurt I have two huge "lesions" on my tongue. I have been told before that I have geographic tongue for any of you that know what that is. The spots are the biggest spots I think I have ever had. I do get them when I eat things I am not supposed to. And I feel mildly achey all over. I might be tired from all the damn cooking I have been doing







. Does the tongue thing sound like die-off or maybe a reaction to eating cow's milk yogurt, which I have not had for months? Do I put up with the reaction because the yogurt is supposed to help so much?

And one last thing. What is die off supposed to feel like? I am assuming that it is different for each person. I should add that last night I started taking pascalite clay to help with die off. If it's helping, I am glad that it is but for the last three days I feel pretty much normal. At least if I felt worse I would know that all of this is working









TIA. For those of you on the pecanbread forum, you may see this twice because I am going to post this there as well.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Spencersmom and Caedmyn, thank you for your replies. I'm know I'm just impatient about this. I wish we were all well. Sigh.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yup, that was dd. She regressed big time after we started swim lessons - - spitting up again (her old reflux came back), not sleeping at all, all the old symptoms she had before we started SCD. I pulled her out and won't bring her back or let her in our pool until (maybe) next summer.

Annikate, this is just what's happened with dd! Even with our diets being totally legal, the pool seems to have thrown us for a loop.

Did your dd have skin problems, too?

Thanks everyone.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

I was just doing some reading at breakingtheviciouscycle.com and read about the need to prepare beans/lentils a particular way. It said I could find instructions in the book, so if someone's read it, would you mind elaborating on the preparation of legumes? Thanks!

Also, Jane (or anyone else), I wanted to ask if you were doing SCD in order to rid your ds of eczema and for how long. Since you're still following the diet, what other symptoms does he currently have that lead to you to continue "healing his gut"?

I'd love to hear from any one else on that point, particularly if your babies had/have skin problems or food sensitivities. I guess I'm wondering when/how you knew the diet was making a difference and at what point you felt your dd/ds was "healed." Not sure if many on this thread are there yet, but if you know of examples, I'd love to hear them. The testimonials of parents of asd kids on pecanbread.com were truly inspiring.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Chinese Pistache,
DD2 (who totally regressed after swim lessons began) does not have any skin problems. DD1 on the other hand, does have excema and has since she was a baby. The chlorine makes her excema much worse. It actually took about 2 weeks to clear up after her lessons were over. Now I don't want either one of them to get in our pool!









As far as the dark circles, etc. I think that your babe is probably going through some pretty significant die-off. Epsom salt baths help a lot. I'd back off on the probiotics for now. I forget how old your dd is or if she's nursing but go slowly on the enzymes. Have you made any 24 hour yogurt yet?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

BTW, legumes are for much later on SCD.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

spencer's mom,

I can't do cow dairy in any form either, but I tolerate goat's yogurt, cheese, butter, w/o complaint. Is that an option for you?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I am a mom of two kids, age DS 2 and DD 4. We have been on SCD since last July (my kids suffer from chronic eczema.) Their eczema is food induced and we have a list of foods that we avoid eating. The list of foods that causes their itchy eczema is long (was longer before SCD), and some of the foods we avoid are grain/gluten, sugar, yeast, some spices, cuke family, berries, apples, grapes, beets, and most dairy.

I am looking for other people who are on SCD, fighting to control over growth of yeast/Leaky Gut Syndrome, or making SCD yogurt to increase colon friendly bacteria/probiotic, taking digestive enzyme(s) or have tried some form of detoxification.

Currently, I am personalizing the SCD with other anti-yeast diet (within SCD legal foods), Food Combination and body's acid-alkaline balance.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
On intro Day 4 and added banana 2 days ago and green beans last night. Right after eating the beans yesterday, I had a bit of tummy ache, but nothing too severe. But it is the first stomach ache since starting (even not after eating meat!). I did have a normal-size stool this morning though, first time since starting. (sorry TMI!) I just had some more green beans now and stomach is again a bit off again. Should I move on to another green item, or just proceed? I would really love to eat something other than meat, broth, eggs, yogurt, dccc and bananas. I know you all can relate. Well, I am drinking some water kefir, but not too much. I just started brewing some of Gale Force's grains, and the rest of the family isn't drinking it so much. I still don't think that yeast is precisely my problem, although who knows, maybe I am kidding myself. (spit test was neg!







)

I had issues with green beans, too. I found spinach to be easily digestable, and asparagus. I moved on to a different veggie - maybe will again try green beans when I'm further into the diet (6 weeks now). So far I can eat, veggie-wise: spinach, asparagus, artichokes, broccoli (I think), zucchini, chard and bok choy. But not green beans. Lots of times it seems people can eat some things and not others and the stages seem to be irrelevant. Remember to make sure everything is WELL-cooked, too. I'm wondering if part of my mistake with the green beans was one - not cooking them enough and two, not using french cut (without seeds). But because of the stomach ache I got I'm hesitant to try them again for awhile.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Does anyone have a link to info about the effects of scd on a bf'd baby? I'm following the SCD diet, but what kind of effect is that having on dd? She hardly eats any solids now (just mashed or pureed fruits and vegetables), I've cut back on the probiotics I was giving her, and she hasn't been too keen on taking CLO. I'm the one taking the supplements and eating the food (we're not doing yogurt because I won't be able to make my own [goat] for another 3-4 wks when we move into our house).

Rambling and thinking aloud to follow:

I guess I'm just wondering because I think *my* gut flora is fine. I've always eaten very healthy, have never had allergies or gastro problems. We ate a lot of Indian food with yogurt (I only stopped for several months when dd showed a sensitivity to dairy) and saurkraut and other fermented foods. I even passed the spit test









But I do think dd's system is messed up, because, like I said before, she had the antibiotics, showed a dairy (and I think, soy) sensitivity, then, got a yeast overgrowth from consuming too many processed starches, which was the tipping point for her eczema to show up.

I've just been reading pecanbread and btvc and I'm not seeing much info about the effects of a mother's diet on helping to eradicate bad bacteria and establish good bacteria in her baby's gut. I know bm is amazing, but does it actually *deposit* good bacteria in a baby's gut if the mother is consuming it? Or am I thinking about this all wrong?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Does anyone have a link to info about the effects of scd on a bf'd baby? I'm following the SCD diet, but what kind of effect is that having on dd? She hardly eats any solids now (just mashed or pureed fruits and vegetables), I've cut back on the probiotics I was giving her, and she hasn't been too keen on taking CLO. I'm the one taking the supplements and eating the food (we're not doing yogurt because I won't be able to make my own [goat] for another 3-4 wks when we move into our house).

Rambling and thinking aloud to follow:

I guess I'm just wondering because I think *my* gut flora is fine. I've always eaten very healthy, have never had allergies or gastro problems. We ate a lot of Indian food with yogurt (I only stopped for several months when dd showed a sensitivity to dairy) and saurkraut and other fermented foods. I even passed the spit test









But I do think dd's system is messed up, because, like I said before, she had the antibiotics, showed a dairy (and I think, soy) sensitivity, then, got a yeast overgrowth from consuming too many processed starches, which was the tipping point for her eczema to show up.

I've just been reading pecanbread and btvc and I'm not seeing much info about the effects of a mother's diet on helping to eradicate bad bacteria and establish good bacteria in her baby's gut. I know bm is amazing, but does it actually *deposit* good bacteria in a baby's gut if the mother is consuming it? Or am I thinking about this all wrong?

I'm not sure what to tell you about most of this. Do you know that there is a source for 30 hour goat yogurt? http://www.whiteegretfarm.com/ I know you can order it. I'm sure it isn't cheap but if you think it is worth it, that is a source of premade scd legal goat yogurt.

Did your dd ever have formula or abx? What about vax? Any of those can mess up her gut. If your gut really is fine then after following scd for a month you will be able to add in illegals w/o any reaction. My dh has been shocked at how much he reacts to illegals now. Of course he also thinks that most people would probably benefit from at least some time on scd to clean out their systems. This from the guy who used to buy a bucket of kfc to live on for a week at a time. He's come a long way.

As far as if probiotics go through your bm that is the million dollar question. No one knows for sure. Lots assume it does but (unless I am mistaken) it hasn't been proven either way.

I'm not 100% convinced that all proteins should be completely broken down in your gut. I think that even if you have a healthy gut there are things that will get through that may make your dd react. I don't know that it will be everything that she would react to if she ate it straight but part of what makes bm a good first food is that it tastes a bit like the food that mom eats so baby gets introduced to the flavors of her culture. It doesn't make sense to me that no bits of that food are in that flavored bm. KWIM?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Just had spinach and now my stomach hurts.







All I used to eat was vegetables and fruit, and now I get a stomach ache from them????







: Well, I did have cooked apples and beans today, and think I was ok from that. (and I made them french cut beans myself







: )

I am actually scared to eat veggies. Sigh. I think I need to get more enzymes. I just have Zyme Prime and Wobenzyme.

I have been cheating with coffee with milk.







: That does not make my stomach hurt (I don't think that I ever had issues tolerating cow's milk), but it might be adding to the bloat.

How much yogurt do you eat per day? I have to hold myself back so I don't run out. Been going through half a gallon a week. Or something like that. Since it is one of the few foods I can eat!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So after one night, 2 weeks ago, of dd sleeping 6 hours straight (and no idea why) we are back to waking every 1-2 hours or just staying latched on all night. Last night she did her going back to her own bed between nursings that she has done on occasion. I know that is a step in the right direction of her sleeping alone all night (her bed is pushed up against our bed, just lower) but it means I got less sleep than usual. I'm thinking about backing up to all cooked stage 1 foods for a few days and quitting the enzymes to see what happens. I might even do the intro again for she and I. If that clears it up I'll know it is what she is eating. If not, I'll chalk it up to being 2. She is just a whiny, clingy wreck and I can't get anything done durring the day cause she needs to nurse constantly. It makes no sense to me that it would be her molars (my usual scape goat) because this is way worse than it has been and those are a millimeter or two from being completely in (fully through the gums for weeks).

We see a new Dr on Tues. When they called to rearrange my time to give someone else a longer appointment I got some doubts about her being able to help us. The Dr is a family practitioner and a chiro. Not sure if she does cranial. I'll be asking if she does or can recomend someone who does it for toddlers. Of course dd freaks if a stranger or someone she doesn't see often wants to touch her lately unless she gets a long time to warm up to them so I'm not sure how that will work anyhow. I just want freaken sleep!


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
As far as if probiotics go through your bm that is the million dollar question. No one knows for sure. Lots assume it does but (unless I am mistaken) it hasn't been proven either way.

i thought i had read that the mammary glands harbor a thriving population of lactic acid bacteria - probably derived from mama's gut population at some point. i doubt it is clear if the mammary gland population exchanges individuals with the gut population.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'll be asking if she does or can recomend someone who does it for toddlers. Of course dd freaks if a stranger or someone she doesn't see often wants to touch her lately unless she gets a long time to warm up to them so I'm not sure how that will work anyhow. I just want freaken sleep!

We have a cranio sacral therapist that works with kids a lot, specializes in babies and toddlers. She is wonderful with them and really gets that they value their personal space. She takes her time and lets them warm up, and when she does need to touch them she always asks first, lets them know, and it is always such a gentle touch that Kiernen never minds. I don't think she has kids, but she is so AP friendly and has such respect for kiddos, it's almost surprising that she isn't a mother herself.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
If not, I'll chalk it up to being 2. She is just a whiny, clingy wreck and I can't get anything done durring the day cause she needs to nurse constantly. It makes no sense to me that it would be her molars (my usual scape goat) because this is way worse than it has been and those are a millimeter or two from being completely in (fully through the gums for weeks).

Of course dd freaks if a stranger or someone she doesn't see often wants to touch her lately unless she gets a long time to warm up to them so I'm not sure how that will work anyhow. I just want freaken sleep!








Our daughters must be twins. (minus the still nursing part - but hey, if dd2 hadn't come along, dd1 would still be attached to the nipple. She was up until 6 months ago.)

Our CST is coming again in the morning (this time to do dd1 as well) and I'm more than worried that we'll end up paying for an appt. that won't happen yk?


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
spencer's mom,

I can't do cow dairy in any form either, but I tolerate goat's yogurt, cheese, butter, w/o complaint. Is that an option for you?

I'm starting to suspect that I'm not doing well on the cow yogurt







Trying to rule it out - I suppose it could be the vanilla (_not_ confident that this doesn't have sugar in the extract) or raw honey that I'm using in the smoothie, or the canned tomato juice. I'm hoping it's one of these instead of the yogurt, but that seems much less likely







: Could also be my run-of-the-mill menstrual breakout that I was hoping wouldn't be run-of-the-mill on this diet, though it's going on a bit longer than usual if that's the case







It's so good to hear from folks who do okay on the goat stuff though - I'm seriously concerned if I can't do dairy of any kind.

On that note, I can't find specific calcium info for the bone broths - anyone have any info on how much Ca the bone broths have compared with dairy? I know it varies by species......I X-posted this question on NT thread because it seems to be such elusive knowledge







:


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
I was just doing some reading at breakingtheviciouscycle.com and read about the need to prepare beans/lentils a particular way. It said I could find instructions in the book, so if someone's read it, would you mind elaborating on the preparation of legumes? Thanks!

Also, Jane (or anyone else), I wanted to ask if you were doing SCD in order to rid your ds of eczema and for how long. Since you're still following the diet, what other symptoms does he currently have that lead to you to continue "healing his gut"?

I'd love to hear from any one else on that point, particularly if your babies had/have skin problems or food sensitivities. I guess I'm wondering when/how you knew the diet was making a difference and at what point you felt your dd/ds was "healed." Not sure if many on this thread are there yet, but if you know of examples, I'd love to hear them. The testimonials of parents of asd kids on pecanbread.com were truly inspiring.


We're doing SCD (about 6 moths) to heal eczema and yeast. I developed eczema on my hands about a year ago. My DD who is almost 3 has had it since she was 3 months-old. The SCD has helped a lot but she regresses any time she is exposed to junk, processed food and grains and sugar, which is every time we are at MIL-s. About once a week, so it's very hard for me to keep her on the diet. The family is totally un-cooperative, so I try to slip in some enzymes. I'm going to try the strong ones like Peptizyde on her... also the pool! If I said no to swimming too, MIL would kill me- they are pretty upset with me anyway for "torturing" this child with a "diet that has nothing to do with eczema". Needless to say everything in their house is processed and loaded with sugar and they are all obese. Unfortunately they are dragging my DH that way too.......
I'm afraid we're never going toi get healed this way







I can manage to be on the diet myself (although it hasn't helped me, it did DD) but it's impossible to put her on it for even a few weeks at a time. I really hope the enzymes will help...


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Does Healing the Gut Tribe have book list for recommended reading? If so, please some one list the link for me. The Sticky (from JaneS) was very much appreciated- with all the things we are practicing along with SCD. I am still serching for the puzzle pieces for the cause and treatments to our gut. The books I read are:

Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet
By Elaine Gottschall

The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut : The Complete Nutritional Guide to Ileitis, Colitis, Crohn's Disease, and Inflammatory Bowel Disease
by James Scala

The Yeast Connection : A Medical Breakthrough
by William G. Crook

Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook, Revised 2nd Edition : Everything You Need to Know About Prevention, Treatment & Diet
by Jeanne Marie Martin

Chronic Candidiasis: Your Natural Guide to Healing with Diet, Vitamins, Minerals, Herbs, Exercise, and Other Natural Methods
by Michael T. Murray ND

Feast Without Yeast: 4 Stages to Better Health : A Complete Guide to Implementing Yeast Free, Wheat (Gluten) Free and Milk (Casein) Free Living
by Bruce Semon and Lori Kornblum

The pH Miracle: Balance Your Diet, Reclaim Your Health
by Robert O. Young

The Acid Alkaline Balance Diet : An Innovative Program for Ridding Your Body of Acidic Wastes
by Felicia Drury Kliment

LifeFood Recipe Book: Living on Life Force
by Annie Padden Jubb, David Jubb

Dr. Jensen's Guide to Better Bowel Care: A Complete Program for Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management
by Bernard Jensen

Detox for Life: Your Bottom Line-It's Your Colon or Your Life!
by Loree Taylor Jordan

Patient Heal Thyself: A Remarkable Health Program Combining Ancient Wisdom With Groundbreaking Clinical Research
by Jordan Rubin

No Grain Diet
by Joseph Mercola

The Garden Of Eating: A Produce-dominated Diet & Cookbook
by Rachel Albert-Matesz

Raw : The Uncook Book: New Vegetarian Food for Life
by Juliano Brotman

The last three books on this list is used for recipes. Everyone, please add your favorite book to the list. Thanks


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Just had spinach and now my stomach hurts.







All I used to eat was vegetables and fruit, and now I get a stomach ache from them????







: Well, I did have cooked apples and beans today, and think I was ok from that. (and I made them french cut beans myself







: )

I am actually scared to eat veggies. Sigh. I think I need to get more enzymes. I just have Zyme Prime and Wobenzyme.

I have been cheating with coffee with milk.







: That does not make my stomach hurt (I don't think that I ever had issues tolerating cow's milk), but it might be adding to the bloat.

How much yogurt do you eat per day? I have to hold myself back so I don't run out. Been going through half a gallon a week. Or something like that. Since it is one of the few foods I can eat!

Did you cook the spinach? Raw spinach is bad for the gut due to the oxalic acid. You should always cook spinach. Even then it could be a problem. My DD's mouth and face got all red a few days ago from it (worse than tomato "burns").
How much Zyme Prime are you taking? I thought it would be helpful...maybe you have a phenol sensitivity, and could try No-Fenol for vegetables?
I think no enzyme will help with the caffeine. I know weak coffee is legal but I feel so much better without it. At least use cream in it, it has less lactose than milk.
I'm eating about 1 cup of yogurt but I need to up the dose as it's not doing anything.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Chlorine pool question:

If I can't forbid DD swimming in MIL's pool, would epsom salt baths help after the exposure? Or anything I can do to minimize the damage? Hope this summer will be short...


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Edina, I just read about your struggles with your MIL.







Gosh, this is all hard enough w/o people actively standing in your way! I am guessing that since you can't limit DD's exposure to the bad stuff at her grandparents, you can't limit her exposure to the source (MIL)?

I would like to have the DDs eat more SCD, and I think that I can do that just going by the legal/illegal list and not worry about the intro diet. However, I need to get a better handle on myself before working on that. DH isn't completly on board with the diet for them, but I chalk that up to him not quite getting all the aspects of it.









Quote:

Did you cook the spinach? Raw spinach is bad for the gut due to the oxalic acid. You should always cook spinach. Even then it could be a problem. My DD's mouth and face got all red a few days ago from it (worse than tomato "burns").
Yes, it was cooked.

Quote:

How much Zyme Prime are you taking? I thought it would be helpful...maybe you have a phenol sensitivity, and could try No-Fenol for vegetables?
I am taking one Zyme Prime before eating. I probably take about 4 a day. Maybe I need more. I am thinking I need to get all the Houstons.

Quote:

I think no enzyme will help with the caffeine. I know weak coffee is legal but I feel so much better without it. At least use cream in it, it has less lactose than milk.
I'm eating about 1 cup of yogurt but I need to up the dose as it's not doing anything.
Sigh, I guess I figured that about the coffee. Part of me was thinking that I could at least hold on to that, but then the other part of me thought that the more attahced you are to a food, the more you need to give it up. The problem is that when I am out and about and am starving, there is practically nothing I can eat/drink, and so coffee has helped tide me over. I guess I just need to buy a lot of bananas.

At least my yogurt making has gotten easier (and more successful) and I would eat that all day long if I could. Trying not to get too nutty with the honey.

Need to make another bone broth too. Going to try it in the crockpot this time.

Been reading old threads and they have been very helpful. Question on coconut. I just read on one that coconut is in the category of last to try due to I guess it being a nut and more likely allergen? Is this true? I have a young coconut in the fridge that I need to crack open. I was thinking of trying to add in the meat to my yogurt, but now I am not so sure? Also thought I would give the coconut milk yogurt a try. Question on that: can I make that using a dairy starter? I am not looking to make a dairy-free yogurt, just another option/flavor.

I can tell that I have been making some progress, but man, having to go this slow with the veggies is depressing. I have lots of lettuce in the garden that I need to get for someone to eat, and my first tomato is getting red. Oh, I will just cry if I can't have any fresh tomatos this summer! Also need to pick currents. Sigh.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Another question, speaking of how this affects bfing babies:

My DD is not nursing a great deal at 2.5, but does still nurse a few times a day. Since starting SCD, I noticed some pimples on her butt and face, although nothing serious. She has also been a bit more...fragile, at times. Could be related to my diet?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Another question, speaking of how this affects bfing babies:

My DD is not nursing a great deal at 2.5, but does still nurse a few times a day. Since starting SCD, I noticed some pimples on her butt and face, although nothing serious. She has also been a bit more...fragile, at times. Could be related to my diet?

What kind of pimples? Do they look like whiteheads... red bumps with a white middle? My DD#1 has pimples every once in a while on her leg or butt or face and my bf baby too. I think it's die-off from yeast because they show up when I try to be more aggressive with the diet and antifungals. Like when I took candidase, DD's rash was like white heads :first one, then two-three and a few days later a bunch of them until I stopped a Candidase and it took her a week to clear. She has a few of them again since I started kefir.
My DD#1 is not breast-fed any more, but it's the diet and enzymes that cause the pimples IMO.
I'm not sure what you mean by fragile: bruising easy or whiney?
I tend to bruise easy, I think it's realted to gluten-sensitivity.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

moonshine said:


> Edina, I just read about your struggles with your MIL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Does anyone knows recipes for yeast free bread? It could be a flat bread, too.

I think there is a yeast free, sourdough bread (for people who follows Maker's Diet), but I don't have its recipe either. I would appreciate, if someone can post the recipe. ( I can improvise the wheat flour with bean or nut flour.)

Thanks


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Finally figured out who I recently read does cranial work! It is the new naturopath at our Dr's office. I've got an appointment for DD with her for Thursday morning. Lots of fingers and toes crossed. Of course we'll see how it goes tomorrow with the new Dr too. Man this is going to be a busy week. And unfortunatly this means I need to cancel my Mother's helper for Thurs. AM.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I think no enzyme will help with the caffeine. I know weak coffee is legal but I feel so much better without it.

As a habitual coffee drinker, I found this paper to be interesting.

From Acta Medica 2004: 47(4): 273-276
"The impairment of gastroduodenal mucosal barrier by coffee"
L'ubica Cibickova, Norbert Cibicek, Petr Zdansky, Pavel Kohout

Summary: Background: Even though coffee is not considered to be responsible for development of peptic ulcer, it may, however, prolong its healing by increasing acidity of gastric content. In our former work we observed a profound increase in sucrose permeability (above normal values) in healthy volunteers regularly drinking coffee for years. In literature, many
factors affecting sucrose permeability have been described so far. None of them, however, studied the effect of coffee.

Subjects, materials and methods: l0 young asymptomatic habitual coffee drinkers were included in the study. The probands underwent SaLM test twice - first time without coffee restriction and second time after 48-hour coffee abstinence. The ingested SaLM solution comprised sucrose (25.0 g), lactulose ( 10.0 e), mannitol (2.0 g), xylose (2.0 g) and water (up to 100 ml). Urine was collected for five hours and the samples were analysed using gas chromatography. Results were compared with those of 8 young healthy volunteers not drinking coffee. Permeability for sucrose was significantly higher in the group of habitual coffee drinkers in comparison with noncoffee drinkers (p<0.01). After 48-hour coffee abstinence sucrose excretion decreased significantly (p<0.05) to a level not differing from that of non-coffee drinkers (p=0.54).

Conclusions: Our results indicate that coffee may damage gastroduodenal mucosa in habitual coffee drinkers. In a time period of 48 hours the gastroduodenal mucosa is capable of a significant regeneration.

------

The group's recommendation is that patients undergoing an intestinal permeability test should avoid coffee for more than two days before taking the test. Those recommendations have not yet been included into Great Smokies' permeability test - they only require an 8 hour fast (including no water) prior to taking the test.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Chlorine pool question:

If I can't forbid DD swimming in MIL's pool, would epsom salt baths help after the exposure? Or anything I can do to minimize the damage? Hope this summer will be short...

epsom salts and/or baking sode are supposed to help rid the body of toxins, so it might work.

i've been reading a little about the effect of chorine and the gut (there isn't a whole lot of work in this area). my problems got really bad after some bozo in the physical plant dept dumped chlorine (without measuring or testing) into the cooling tower which happens to be immediately adjacent to the air intake for our portion of the building. we had 30ppm of chlorine in our air for a while - EPA levels are <5ppm i think.

when certain proteins become chlorinated, they can contribute to inflammation and circumvent the adaptive immune system - thereby creating all sorts of havoc in the body. the big burning question is if chlorine exposure (through air or in water rather than forced as in a lab experiment) can cause proteins to become chlorinated and do this particular damage.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
What kind of pimples? Do they look like whiteheads... red bumps with a white middle? My DD#1 has pimples every once in a while on her leg or butt or face and my bf baby too. I think it's die-off from yeast because they show up when I try to be more aggressive with the diet and antifungals. Like when I took candidase, DD's rash was like white heads :first one, then two-three and a few days later a bunch of them until I stopped a Candidase and it took her a week to clear. She has a few of them again since I started kefir.
My DD#1 is not breast-fed any more, but it's the diet and enzymes that cause the pimples IMO.
I'm not sure what you mean by fragile: bruising easy or whiney?
I tend to bruise easy, I think it's realted to gluten-sensitivity.

Yes, whiteheads. Only like 4, so no big thing. Haven't seen them since a few days ago.

Fragile? Easily set off and falling apart at the slightest provocation. Course, that could just be being a 2 yr old.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Annikate, this is just what's happened with dd! Even with our diets being totally legal, the pool seems to have thrown us for a loop.

Chlorine kills off the good bacteria... if we are working so hard to increase it, pools should be off limits IMO. It's hard I know.

One of my best friends here in town and her son is DS's best friend, is seriously irritated at me about this. She wouldn't listen and get the more expensive non chlorine stuff (even though I would have paid the difference b/c we are over there for playdates every week at least once/twice.) Now we cannot go in there all summer and I don't even know how I'm going to break it to DS...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Chlorine pool question:

If I can't forbid DD swimming in MIL's pool, would epsom salt baths help after the exposure? Or anything I can do to minimize the damage? Hope this summer will be short...

Baquacil is non chlorine disinfectant for pools based on hydrogen peroxide that turns to oxygen http://www.baquacil.com/default.asp


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
I am a mom of two kids, age DS 2 and DD 4. We have been on SCD since last July (my kids suffer from chronic eczema.) Their eczema is food induced and we have a list of foods that we avoid eating. The list of foods that causes their itchy eczema is long (was longer before SCD), and some of the foods we avoid are grain/gluten, sugar, yeast, some spices, cuke family, berries, apples, grapes, beets, and most dairy.

I am looking for other people who are on SCD, fighting to control over growth of yeast/Leaky Gut Syndrome, or making SCD yogurt to increase colon friendly bacteria/probiotic, taking digestive enzyme(s) or have tried some form of detoxification.

Currently, I am personalizing the SCD with other anti-yeast diet (within SCD legal foods), Food Combination and body's acid-alkaline balance.









Greencat!

Yes, yes, yes and yes! DS's feet still flare up when his poop goes to mush but otherwise the high vitamin cod liver oil seems to control it now. Previously on evening primrose and quercetin as well. It was probably related to certain yeast/bacteria that lived on starches that we were able to knock down. Now we are still fighting other bacterial issues. He takes Zyme Prime and No Fenol with all meals and snacks but goes hyper with Peptizyde.

Re: book rec

Karen DeFelice's (they are both the same) is a must read for gut issues www.enzymestuff.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache*
Also, Jane (or anyone else), I wanted to ask if you were doing SCD in order to rid your ds of eczema and for how long. Since you're still following the diet, what other symptoms does he currently have that lead to you to continue "healing his gut"?

I don't have any good testimony here with respect to DS unfortunately. We are still in the weeds. His skin got better before the SCD with Elimination Diet and supplements as above post. Right now sleeping issues and bowel/digestive problems are our main concern. We've had stool tests done on him showing dysbiosis, _Proteus mirabilis_ is the main bad bug we're fighting right now. It releases neurotoxins so no surprise that his sleep is effected.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Well, I am drinking some water kefir, but not too much. I just started brewing some of Gale Force's grains, and the rest of the family isn't drinking it so much. I still don't think that yeast is precisely my problem, although who knows, maybe I am kidding myself. (spit test was neg!







)

I would sincerely suggest holding off on anything non SCD like the kefir if you want to be sure about whether the diet will work for you. If you don't do it 100% from the start you might not know what is causing which symptom and the second guessing will drive you bananas (BTDT).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Annikate -- I think the only thing you can do is a trial run and see how you feel. I didn't eat grains at all in the beginning and then I tested millet and reacted so I didn't eat grains for several more months. Now I can go to a restaurant and eat without any major discomfort, just the usual bloating or over-stuffed feeling I associate with grains.









:

Also I waited until I was on full enzymes plus high proteases between meals before branching out to illegals.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nathan1097*
*NOTE: The big paragraph was written Wednesday night.*

I was just in the hospital from Friday evening through tonight. I went in for a belly ache with vomiting and lots of HORRIBLE, worse-than-labor pain. Threw up a few times at home then about three times in the ER. Got morphine- twice. Got admitted. They did CT scans, xrays, and other stuff. Took TONS of blood. Gave me plasma to reverse my coumadin before they did a colonoscopy. That showed nothing but they took biopsies. No diagnosis yet (except general ileitis, because my small intestine was inflamed on xray- or was that the CT scan?!) because I have to see a specialist who will look at the biopsy report and make a conclusion. They said it isn't Chrones because there isn't any diarhea usually with it. Food poisoning is possible but food allergy seems unlikely since its always something different that I ate right before. This has happened for years (at least 10)- only this time, they caught it DURING. Usually they say "You're not in pain now? We don't know. Go home." Or once the said I had an intestinal infection and gave me antibiotics after a lot of tests but only in the ER- wasn't admitted. Other times it has been while I was pregnant and they said it was morning sickness!!!! (At 15 weeks and couldn't keep a thing down; another time they thought an ectopic pregnancy and when they found out I WAS pregnant (normal pregnancy of 5 weeks) they went off on that tangent and my ache eventually went away.) UGH!! I have a temp now which I'm keeping under control with advil and tylenol. I hope that works because I don't want to go back in! The colonoscopy showed not much. I couldn't eat while there really so I was on tea and broth and jello for most of the time then NOTHING yesterday from midnight until about 5 p.m.- I thought I'd DIE of hunger!!!! Now I'm on nutrtional supplement drinks and water and "as tolerated". I don't want to chance anything as I had very runny mashed potatoes (more like gravy and a bit of potato in it lol) earlier at the hospital and my belly started talking to me about "Grr.... why'd you do that? I have to work now..." So its just liquid nutrition for me for a bit I think. I'm freezoing with this temp so I got under my electric blanket. WRONG! That just make my temp go UP! It was 103.9! So, stripped off my clothes (had on a sweatshirt and sweatpants too) and took the blankets off my bed.... Taking tylenol and advil when I can and gonna rest. I did watch a whole TON of tv in the hospital! lol I rarely watch any tv so this was a funny experience for me. Watched a lot of "Deadliest Catch" on TLC and Price is Right and just whatever else caught my fancy.

*UPDATE:* Now its a couple days later (Friday) and my temp is still there but not as high. At about 100.something. I normally run in the low 97's. I also seem to be able to eat normal foods again, though I have yet to try meat. Afraid to! Meat and I don't usually agree anyway. (I copy and pasted this here because it was easier!)









Gosh what a nightmare... for 10 years you say?!

There are more user forums on the www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info site that might have people with your issues. The fever is concerning.... and you've had no dx at all? That seems very strange to me. You should ask other Crohn's patients if diarrhea is required. Perhaps "just" colitis? In any event, a trial of SCD might be helpful.

As far as the meat not agreeing with you, depending on where exactly your small intestine is damaged, you are probably not breaking it down fully. Proteases might be helpful. Also check your stomach acid production and think about supplements.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also I waited until I was on full enzymes plus high proteases between meals before branching out to illegals.
Jane, do you mean that you waited until you could tolerate high proteases between meals without problems? Like Peptizyde?

I have to admit that I've been a bit lax about the enzyme thing (for myself) since the beginning and have only recently been doing Peptizyde between meals which I think is helping a lot.







I tried it early on and it made me







.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Bought some HCl today. Haven't taken any yet, but I suspect it is a problem. I did the baking soda test some weeks ago, and didn't pass. In the last few days, I have had a similar sensation as I did after drinking the baking soda.

Made stuffed zucchini tonight (w/o the ingredients that I am not doing yet, spices and cheese). My stomach doesn't hurt like after spinach and green beans, although I do feel more bloated than after not eating veggies. I ordered No Fenol today and it can't get here soon enough.

Another milestone: DD1 had some meat for the first time in her life. She ate some of the filling from the zucchinis. (Egg, zuc and ground beef) She only had about 3 bites and then didn't want more, but good to start slow anyway. DD1, totally not interested.

My crockpot won't fit all my bones, so making stock in the reg pot. Oh, I tried to branch out from beef at the store today. Looked at a lamb chop. Would have gotten it, but it cost $11!! Can not afford such things at the moment.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, do you mean that you waited until you could tolerate high proteases between meals without problems? Like Peptizyde?

I have to admit that I've been a bit lax about the enzyme thing (for myself) since the beginning and have only recently been doing Peptizyde between meals which I think is helping a lot.







I tried it early on and it made me







.

Yes, I saw such great results from them, that is when I decided to start illegals before I had really planned to.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, I saw such great results from them, that is when I decided to start illegals before I had really planned to.

I'm so jealous of this.







I wish I knew why these enzymes make me so miserable. I'm giving dd a break from the enzymes right now too, to see if that is what is making her nuts.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, I think SAMe is supposed to be good for the liver. It's also a natural anti-depressant, and helps with arthritis. But it raises homocysteine in the blood, so you can't take it if your blood pressure is high or you already have heart disease.
And as far as the diet, I think our main problem was that we went too fast, but it may also be that I have really tough, old yeast from my childhood that is refusing to die. That, and whenever I try peptizide, ds gets really hyper. caedmyn, let me know if you find a better way!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat*
Does anyone knows recipes for yeast free bread? It could be a flat bread, too.

I think there is a yeast free, sourdough bread (for people who follows Maker's Diet), but I don't have its recipe either. I would appreciate, if someone can post the recipe. ( I can improvise the wheat flour with bean or nut flour.)

Thanks

Nourishing Traditions has a lactic bacterial sourdough bread. However, sourdough is made from rye and other grains, so it wouldn't be SCD legal.
On the other hand there is research that real sourdough bread doesn't bother celiacs. Probably because the gluten and complex carbs are mostly broken down by the bacteria. Even this way, you might want to use enzymes....

I made the NT sourdough once, it came out hard like a rock... I'm not sure why. I'm not going to make it again, it take a week and a half! Nobody else likes it anyway. You can also order properly made sourdough on the net. Grain and Salt society.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Also, nut and bean flours are not properly made because they were not soaked. Unlss you make your own by soaking and drying and grinding. There are some nut bread recipes on scdrecipe.com but I doubt you can make sourdough with nuts...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Nak

Went to the new Dr today. I had a 1 pg history of dd's health to start us off. Dr asked a few clarifying questions then told me that it is "time to wean". That weaning will fix everything.







:








:

She went on about it for a time but when I calmly but firmly told her that we would not be weaning now and that I knew it isn't a behavorial defect she backed off.

She ordered allergy blood tests (including for celiacs even though we have been gluten free for nearly 5 months) and wants to do a stool test. She also told me that dd has a heart murmur. I had no idea. Not feeling so great about our other Dr right now that he has missed this for 2.5 years.

I'm torn about doing the allergy testing. DD has had one blood draw, 2 weeks ago, and it was extremely traumatic. She is still processing it daily. I also know that the test isn't necessarily accurate. However I also want to meet this Dr half way too because she may be able to help us and I am very interested in the results of the stool test. Thoughts? She seemed like a reasonable competent Dr. She respected our family choices (for the most part). The info she handed out about nutrition etc came mostly from Dr Sears.

She also gave me a cd about glyconutrients. I haven't been able to listen to it yet.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

EBG: Thanks for the tip. I did not know the complexed process of making the sourdough bread. As may of you may know, the Maker's Diet allows sourdough bread without yeast. However, you have to pay to join their web page to see its recipe (?). I enjoyed reading "The Maker's Diet" and the personal story on "Patient Heal Thyself" which is astonishing, but I have a personal-ethical issue to buy his products, books etc. Yet, I was still curious about the yeast free sourdough bread. Well, based on your experinece, I am going to stay with SCD breads for now.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

How long is it safe to stay on the basic intro diet? I feel like I am consuming so few foods. Beef (ground and stock), tons of eggs, dccc, bananas, cooked apples, yogurt, raw honey, CLO, CO, chlorophyll (when I remember) and B complex are my daily staples. I have tried green beans, spinach and zucchini with various stomach ailments to follow. The zucchini last night was ok, but felt more bloated than usual. This morning, constipated. It will a week tomorrow since I started.

I started weaning off the coffee and only had 3/4 cup today (instead of 2-4







: ). And no kefir. Some apple cider because I needed a quick fix.

I am bfing a 2.5 yr old. She eats plenty of food, but still nurses a few times a day. I guess I am just wondering how long I can keep going this slow. Think I will try cooked pears next. The fruit seems to be better than veggies. Ordered all the Houstons yesterday, so hopefully can start the No Fenol this week and maybe that will help with the veggies. Don't know why I didn't think that I needed it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

there is a sourdough thread going on so someone there might be able to give pointers: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=438763


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
How long is it safe to stay on the basic intro diet? I feel like I am consuming so few foods. Beef (ground and stock), tons of eggs, dccc, bananas, cooked apples, yogurt, raw honey, CLO, CO, chlorophyll (when I remember) and B complex are my daily staples. I have tried green beans, spinach and zucchini with various stomach ailments to follow. The zucchini last night was ok, but felt more bloated than usual. This morning, constipated. It will a week tomorrow since I started.

I started weaning off the coffee and only had 3/4 cup today (instead of 2-4







: ). And no kefir. Some apple cider because I needed a quick fix.

I am bfing a 2.5 yr old. She eats plenty of food, but still nurses a few times a day. I guess I am just wondering how long I can keep going this slow. Think I will try cooked pears next. The fruit seems to be better than veggies. Ordered all the Houstons yesterday, so hopefully can start the No Fenol this week and maybe that will help with the veggies. Don't know why I didn't think that I needed it.

Are you remembering to peel and deseed all veggies and fruit and cook it well?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Are you remembering to peel and deseed all veggies and fruit and cook it well?

Yes, ma'am. Well, not the zucchini because I was following the recipe from BTVC and it didn't sound like I should/needed to???

Just had some avocado with my 2 burgers.







:


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Yes, ma'am. Well, not the zucchini because I was following the recipe from BTVC and it didn't sound like I should/needed to???

Just had some avocado with my 2 burgers.







:

It is important that you modify all recipes to fit your stage of the diet so if it calls for Zucc and you are still in the peeled and deseeded stage be sure to do that. I couldn't tolerate peel or seeds on zucc for quite a while but now I can no problem. I think we went almost 2 months on the diet before I could handle anything uncooked and it was nearly that long before we could eat anything with the skin on or seeds in.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty,
I may be in the minority here but I am sooo glad I had dd bloodtested for food allergies. Yes, there is a high rate of false positives, but I was looking for a guideline and at that point anything would've helped us! TUrns out, dd's all seem to be right on so far. EVerything that tested negative she IS able to tolerate so far.

Having the blood drawn really, really su**s. I hated doing it and our idiotic lab techs didn't get enough the first time so I had to go back w/dd a week later and do it all again. (And they take quite a bit of blood.)







I would hate to think about dd1 having to go! Yikes.

But . .. just remember, it'll be worth it to get the results. AND if you get a good tech it will only last less than a minute.

Wanted to tell you (and the rest of the mamas) too that dd1 actually _enjoyed_ her CST appointment yesterday. It was AMAZING. I watched dd's eyes and could actually see something happening inside of her. It really was something to witness. Her therapist said that she did a lot of releasing from her lower abdomen and thought she may not need another session! We're having her come again next week and then we'll see. She has not poopied today though







and I don't really like that.

And dd2 has been wired for sound since her appointment yesterday. I actually gave her some Rescue REmemdy for the first time tonight. (Didn't really want to do that either but she sobbed and sobbed each time she felt herself drifting off to sleep & she was at the nipple too.


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## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

JaneS said:


> Chlorine kills off the good bacteria... if we are working so hard to increase it, pools should be off limits IMO. It's hard I know.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Hi all, just reading along here.
> ...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Nikki,
I don't know about boiling but this is what we have (the shower heads and the tablets.) The tablets are awesome and you only need to use a tiny piece in the tub.
http://www.ronin-online.com/


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Good to know on the zuccs. They actually seemed ok, compared to the spinach the night before. And all seems good with the avocado!!! Oh, that does open some doors.

Annikate, that is great about the CST. It is amazing to see such mimimal movement of treatment have such great results. I had some CS training. Unfortunately I could not have disliked my instructor more. Plus I was 8 months pregnant and just wanting to get done.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Nikki,
I don't know about boiling but this is what we have (the shower heads and the tablets.) The tablets are awesome and you only need to use a tiny piece in the tub.
http://www.ronin-online.com/

Really, only a tiny piece? I've been putting a whole tablet in! You mean I've been wasting them? How much do you generally put in?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I just break it in half and then try to break the halves into 3 pieces each. (Going by what dh said, he's the engineer in the family.)







Apparently one tablet can take care of a LOT of water.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

double post


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I have http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2....205/ts/1042881this bath ball. I'm working on getting a filter for the shower. We have a strange shower so most don't work with it. I found one and this just reminded me that I never ordered it.







I'll have to do that.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I did the baking soda test some weeks ago, and didn't pass. In the last few days, I have had a similar sensation as I did after drinking the baking soda.









Did I miss this? What is the baking soda test?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

nak

Baking soda test


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Nak

Went to the new Dr today. I had a 1 pg history of dd's health to start us off. Dr asked a few clarifying questions then told me that it is "time to wean". That weaning will fix everything.







:







:











Quote:

She also told me that dd has a heart murmur. I had no idea. Not feeling so great about our other Dr right now that he has missed this for 2.5 years.
Apparently, children (up to 80%) have an innocent murmur at some time in their childhood. Here is a link about it: http://www.bhsoc.org/bhf_factfiles/b...e_oct_2001.pdf

Quote:

I'm torn about doing the allergy testing. DD has had one blood draw, 2 weeks ago, and it was extremely traumatic. She is still processing it daily. I also know that the test isn't necessarily accurate. However I also want to meet this Dr half way too because she may be able to help us and I am very interested in the results of the stool test. Thoughts? She seemed like a reasonable competent Dr. She respected our family choices (for the most part). The info she handed out about nutrition etc came mostly from Dr Sears.

She also gave me a cd about glyconutrients. I haven't been able to listen to it yet.
***I don't know as much about allergy blood testing as Jane, but I'd certainly consider the saliva, stool and hair analysis first since your daughter has been so traumatized by this already. Or insist that you have a prescription for the EMLA creme for numbing her arm before a venapuncture.: http://www.skinsite.com/info_emla_cream.htm

Pat


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Now that I've finally figured out I have to log in for the forums to show any posts...

If I'm not producing enough stomach acid, will the enzymes not work properly? I did the baking soda test and apparently am not producing enough stomach acid, so I wonder if that affects how the enzymes work.

EBG--you have yeast problems, right? I'm going to start a different diet Friday (the yahoo group candidasupport has the info on it) because the SCD hasn't helped me, and I've love to have some company if you're up for trying something new









Well I cheated royally on the diet the last couple of days--DH's sister and her family were visiting and we went out for dinner twice. I figured the SCD isn't helping anyway so I might as well enjoy myself for a couple of days before starting the new diet. So I had eggrolls, potstickers, bread, prime rib sandwhich w/au jus, mashed potatoes and gravy, and cheesecake. I think I covered all the illegals in those two meals! And I felt absolutely no different than normal--yet another sign that the SCD isn't working for me, I guess.

Plus we went to a waterpark and I went swimming, although I wasn't in the water too much (mostly went down the water slides a few times), so who knows what effect the chlorine had on any good gut bacteria I've managed to acquire. I did keep DD out of the water, though, although DH's sister didn't think too much of that. But oh well, she is my kid and they can think what they want.

Kind of OT...is okay to give a 6 month old a little bit of water? We were outside a lot the last two days and I was teaching DD to drink out of my water bottle. She generally won't nurse more than every 3 hours and has trouble concentrating on nursing when it's noisy, so I wanted to make sure she wasn't getting dehydrated (especially after she held her pee for 4 1/2 hours! Sad that a 6 month old can hold it for longer than I can!).


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I do believe that brain fog is indicitive of die-off? Oh my goodness, I just stood in my kitchen retracing all my steps making banana, yogurt, dccc, CO and raw honey that is my lunch because I was still hungry and there is nothing else I can eat quickly, so thought I would make some more, but I couldn't find the DCCC!!!! I finally found it in the freezer (where I keep extra, but not where I got it from moments ago!).

And this morning I was so tired I felt drugged. Just slept for an hour and only got up because I have to go to work.

No idea about the low HCl and enzymes. I would suspect they still work, but maybe not as well? I have been taking the HCl since 2 nights ago, and am wondering if what I am feeling is in part from that. That and now being completely SCD legel (no coffee or kefir).


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn, I'm going to check out your new diet, since I definitely have candida issues and the SCD hasn't worked for me -- unless I'm going to try going back to the intro diet, which did seem to help (I think, it's been so long though).


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Now that I've finally figured out I have to log in for the forums to show any posts...

If I'm not producing enough stomach acid, will the enzymes not work properly? I did the baking soda test and apparently am not producing enough stomach acid, so I wonder if that affects how the enzymes work.

EBG--you have yeast problems, right? I'm going to start a different diet Friday (the yahoo group candidasupport has the info on it) because the SCD hasn't helped me, and I've love to have some company if you're up for trying something new









Well I cheated royally on the diet the last couple of days--DH's sister and her family were visiting and we went out for dinner twice. I figured the SCD isn't helping anyway so I might as well enjoy myself for a couple of days before starting the new diet. So I had eggrolls, potstickers, bread, prime rib sandwhich w/au jus, mashed potatoes and gravy, and cheesecake. I think I covered all the illegals in those two meals! And I felt absolutely no different than normal--yet another sign that the SCD isn't working for me, I guess.

Plus we went to a waterpark and I went swimming, although I wasn't in the water too much (mostly went down the water slides a few times), so who knows what effect the chlorine had on any good gut bacteria I've managed to acquire. I did keep DD out of the water, though, although DH's sister didn't think too much of that. But oh well, she is my kid and they can think what they want.

Kind of OT...is okay to give a 6 month old a little bit of water? We were outside a lot the last two days and I was teaching DD to drink out of my water bottle. She generally won't nurse more than every 3 hours and has trouble concentrating on nursing when it's noisy, so I wanted to make sure she wasn't getting dehydrated (especially after she held her pee for 4 1/2 hours! Sad that a 6 month old can hold it for longer than I can!).


Filtered water is OK or bottled. I only trust Deer Park. Once I read a repost on AOL, I thnk that most bottled water is just municipal water and the spring waters are often contaminated with bacteria. Deer Part was on eof the few that tested excellent for purity.

Caedmyn, I tried the Candida diet before SCD. I was sugar/grain/cheese/vinegar/mushroom free and did garlic and Culturelle. I had a bad die-off for two weeks but after it passed, everything did get better but my eczema didn't clear, my itchy issues are still here and my tongue is worse than before. So when I found somebody on the lowcarber forum who got rid off their eczema by eating the SCD yogurt, I thought I'll give it a try and I've been doing it since February, but no change whatsoever. i also added coconut oil, CLO back then. Still doing garlic... and added kefir about 2 weeks ago. More die-off...
Now my hope is that strong enzymes will help. I'll try Digest Gold first and then add the yeast killers. I did a round of Candidase a few weeks ago which did nothing. I probably need to do a double dose or a different formulation...
If enzymes don't help along with the diet, I don't know what will...

I remember somebody posting something negative about GSE... what was it again?
Karen De Felice says that people have success using No-Fenol and GSE for yeast. I really want to try that combo. I couldn't find anything on the net about GSE being harmful during lactation...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I remember somebody posting something negative about GSE... what was it again?
Karen De Felice says that people have success using No-Fenol and GSE for yeast. I really want to try that combo. I couldn't find anything on the net about GSE being harmful during lactation...

GSE might contain synthetic microbiocides which are endocrine disruptors. It isn't clear if these are contaminants or byproducts or what. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...?p=5227981#907


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
GSE might contain synthetic microbiocides which are endocrine disruptors. It isn't clear if these are contaminants or byproducts or what. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...?p=5227981#907

I read through the articles... it's sad that most commercial GSE is contaminated, but not all of them. I wonder which ones are not. I don't think chewing on seeds is the same, but who knows?

I'm just so desperate to find something that works and is also safe.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I read through the articles... it's sad that most commercial GSE is contaminated, but not all of them. I wonder which ones are not. I don't think chewing on seeds is the same, but who knows?

I'm just so desperate to find something that works and is also safe.

I've used both nystatin and diflucan in the past. Diflucan (aka fluconazole) knocks out some key components of the fungal cell wall so that it somehow cannot reproduce - hence the 24-hour delay before you notice any effect. Diflucan is a systemic drug and does have some interactions with other drugs. Nystatin (oral) is said to be not systemic but I've read that the oral form can be used to treat a plethora of candida infections (digestive tract and elsewhere). It apparently binds to cell membranes of fungi causing their cell contents to then leak out.

Lactobacillus plantarum (if it is possible to get in some form) might be useful - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&term=16701514


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Just found an interesting article on GSE:
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band73/b73-1.html

Apparently the antimicrobial element in GSE is the contaminant synthetic preservative. The one pure GSE had no antimicrobial affect on Candida.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Here's a source, a little pricey but may worth it:

http://www.enzymeessentials.com/HTML...adophilus.html


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I found something on why oil of oregano isn't good to use while breastfeeding--it can decrease your supply. I still don't know why it's not recommended during pregnancy, though.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

My dh is now being treated for leaky gut - the ND is just assuming that he is "leaky" and has recommended a few things, including the probiotic "PB 8". Curiously, the "PB 8" website doesn't have information but another wite does (http://www.internatural-alternative-...ingr576108.cfm) and this produce DOES have L. plantarum.

(And it took a visit to the ND for dh to be convinced that perhaps dw was right as usual. Bah.)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I found something on why oil of oregano isn't good to use while breastfeeding--it can decrease your supply. I still don't know why it's not recommended during pregnancy, though.

from kellymom.com - oregano stimulates menstruation and may cause miscarriage. http://www.kellymom.com/herbal/oregano_oil.html


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## mommy2aprincess (Apr 29, 2006)

I just now found this thread at the recommendation of annikate- thanks!!! I'm going to start reading through the previous pages, but I hope you don't mind if I copy my post from nutrition and good eating to try and get some help for my mom. Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

I have only recently joined mdc and am learning so much. I still have so much to learn though so I was hoping you could help me with an "urgent" request.

My mom's health hasn't been very good lately. She has been very stressed out and hasn't been getting much sleep. She has been suffering with a series of recurrent kidney infections. It has become so bad that her doctor is sending her to the mayo clinic b/c she doens;t know what else to do for her. Yesterday, my mom wasn;t feeling good and decided to stop by the doctor's office to make sure she wasn;t getting another bladder infection. She ended up being sent to the hospital for tests. At first they thought that she had a ruptured stomach ulcer..yikes! Luckily, there was no rupture, but she does have very bad ulcers that she needs to get under control right away.

She is going to work seriously on getting more sleep and controlling her stress. From a lot of the reading that I have been doing, it seems like a healthy diet is the best way to heal ulcers. She is asking me what she should be eating and for some quick, easy meal ideas and i;m at a loss of what to tell her. I'm only just beginning to fix my own diet. I have NT and the maker's diet on their way to me and am very excited to read them. I have so much to learn about eating healthy but can't learn it all fast enough to give her good advice and help. I tried googling for stuff but just became overwhelmed at all the information and different types of diets and recommendations.

Please help me help my mom! I feel like her health is really in jeopardy now and I want to help her get back on her feet again. Any diet recommendations that would be good to start with? What should she start focusing on the most? (it is going to be a total diet overhaul..they do not eat healthy at all right now!) And most importantly, so that she will actually do it, what are some quick and easy recipes? I know that she doesn;t really feel good enough to be cooking much right now and she doesn't have much time either. things that require little preparation would be great....also things that maybe the kids could help get parts of it together would be good as well.

Sorry this is so long!!! Thanks so much for anyone who made it this far! Thanks in advance for your help!!!


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Baking soda test

Thank you!


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

welcome, mommy2aprincess. From what I've heard, ulcers can be caused by a bacteria, whose name escapes me. Antibiotics are often used to treat them. There must be some natural antibiotics you can use instead -- like garlic? I'd also add 24-hour yogurt in, preferably from raw milk. See http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...rt/yoghurt.htm for how to make the yogurt.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
welcome, mommy2aprincess. From what I've heard, ulcers can be caused by a bacteria, whose name escapes me. Antibiotics are often used to treat them. There must be some natural antibiotics you can use instead -- like garlic? I'd also add 24-hour yogurt in, preferably from raw milk. See http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...rt/yoghurt.htm for how to make the yogurt.

I also read about it, I think it's helicobacter pylori (sp?) and I think I also read that coconut oil kills it... I think garlic can be very irritating to the stomach if there's ulcers, I don't know. I get sick if I eat it on an empty stomach and I have no ulcer.
I think protease enzymes are also contraindicated... I have to look it up...
I'd try CO and raw milk. An low-carb.
Also kidney infections ard UTI are also caused by bacterial overgrowth and/or yeast. Cranberry juice is ususally recommended for UTI.

If you choose to do abx for the ulcers, make sure you take the best probiotics available like Culturelle, or 24-hr. yogurt 2 hours after the abx, even after the treatment is over. For UTI Macrobid is safer than Bactrim that has been proven to promote yeast overgrowth. But I'd stay way from abx as much as possible.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

anyone familiar with this M.D.?
Let me know if you are.

http://www.pathwaysmed.com/


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

mommy2aprincess,
I know nothing virtually nothing about ulcers but I do know some about gut healing. Here are some things you can tell your mom to do right away:
eliminate all beverages except water (though for her kidneys maybe cranberry juice would be good.)
eliminate all refined foods, breads, cookies, crackers, anything made with refined flour
eliminate all sugar
eliminate all spices except perhaps salt
Can she cook for herself at all? What types of things is she eating now?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Here's where I read about the proteases: (enzymestuff.com)

Sometimes after starting a strong protease enzyme product, the person may have a stomach ache or pain when eating. The general recommendation is to stop the protease for around four or five days, and then try again. Usually this resolves the problem. Although proteases such as bromelain and papain have been used extensively to heal gastric ulcers, proteases in particular may be irritating the gut a little initially, particularly if the gut is very damaged or inflamed. The proteases may be cleaning out wounds and inflammation, taking toxins and debris away, and this will leave exposed healthy, yet sensitive tissue. Stopping the proteases for a few days allows these cleaned out, but exposed areas time to heal again. The injured areas will not be so sensitive when the proteases are later resumed.

Another strategy would be to start with an enzyme product that is low in proteases (such as a general all-purpose product), which will promote gut healing, and then adding in the stronger protease product after a week or more. If you wait the four to five days, resume the proteases and then see stomach aches again, this may be a symptom of celiac disease or something that requires different measures. You may also try reducing the dose, or stop the strong proteases altogether. There may be more substantial gut injury which needs longer to heal before stronger proteases can be used.

In a few rare occasions, a person may start digestive enzymes and spit up or throw up a little in the very beginning. Sometimes this is not due to the enzymes and just happens to be a coincidence. Other times it may be the enzymes. A few people this has happened to offered the following saying the problem went away:

Stop the enzymes for a few days and then start again just as you do for stomach ache
Reduce the enzyme dose and start up slower
If the enzymes were taken on an empty stomach or with a light meal, try taking the enzymes with food, or a more substantial meal, for a few days
One explanation for this was offered by a fellow that has worked many years in the
supplement industry, spent several years selling enzymes, and several years working with a specialist in candida yeast problems. He commented that if there is candida or bacteria in the stomach or throat area, and you take something that helps kill these pathogens, such as enzymes, it can cause some throwing up in the very beginning. It is like you have die-off and your body is trying to expel the crud as quick as possible. If the gut bugs are in the lower intestines and bowel, you may have diarrhea or some very interesting looking stools for a few days. In the upper GI tract, it can come out topside.

This is not diagnostic by any means, and you can take it in light of what else you know to help you determine what may be going on and what to do next.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

For ulsers Ive read greens ( in mothering mag ) and also cabbage esp. if you juice it.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

OT...
JaneS or somebody....
Now that I'm getting some sun some skin problems are showing up.
#1 white spots on my arms that don't tan, like missing pigment? Is it some kind of deficiency?
#2 I've had darker blotches on my face since my pregnancy and they are getting darker with sun exposure. Will anything fade them or get rid of them?

I'm not using sunblock for obvious toxicity reasons. I get about a 1/2-1 hour of sun a day for the vitamin D.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Went to the naturopath today to get her to do cranial on dd. I really liked her. She aggreed with the idea that with all the foods we have completely eliminated from our diets allergy testing won't be very accurate at this point. I'm leaning toward not doing the testing but I really want her to do the stool test...

The cranial was cool! My dd was freaked by it (well by the stranger touching me thing) so I leaned in close and held her hands and looked into her eyes while the woman did it. Her eyes did some pretty strange things, flickering, her pupils dialated seperately at one point and they even seemed to move independantly somewhat. Then she started swallowing repeatedly. The Dr said that she had several releases and she didn't want to do too much because it can be hard on little kids like her. She also thinks that it is yeast waking her up at night and causing her food issues and generally making her not cope with life (after a short discussion of it being nursing but this woman wasn't nearly as pushy as the Dr on tues. and I think I managed to convince her that the nursing is a symptom, not the illness.) Anyhow, she wants me to bring her in once a week for a month and she is going to look up safe herbs for yeast killing in toddlers. DD is the youngest candidia patient she has ever treated and she wants to be sure everything she recomends is safe for her age. I'll be passing that info along of course.









Oh and I bougth her a pacifier today at the store. I haven't ever tried one with her. I got her down for her nap and tried to get it in there but she was keeping her mouth firmly closed. I'm gonna see if dh wants to try it at bedtime (he always gets her to sleep w/o me) Can't hurt.


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Patty, why'd you buy her a pacifier? I haven't been following the thread very closely . . .


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

pattyla - with that pacifier - make sure you disinfect lots between uses. boil them in water and vinegar for 20 min or so.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Patty, why'd you buy her a pacifier? I haven't been following the thread very closely . . .

Cause she wakes up every 1-2 hours all night long to nurse. If it is just to suck then perhaps the paci will give me some relief. She slept somewhat better when she sucked her fingers in her sleep but she gave that up before she turned 1.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
pattyla - with that pacifier - make sure you disinfect lots between uses. boil them in water and vinegar for 20 min or so.

Thanks for the reminder. Why 20 min? I thought it just took 5 min to disinfect w/boiling water?


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Cause she wakes up every 1-2 hours all night long to nurse. If it is just to suck then perhaps the paci will give me some relief. She slept somewhat better when she sucked her fingers in her sleep but she gave that up before she turned 1.

Ahhh. I just nightweaned dd, 29.5 months. It wasn't fun, but not nearly as bad as I thought. Actually, it was only hard the first night (I spent two hours in the middle of the night standing and rocking her). We started about two weeks ago. She's slept through for the past 4 nights. For me, it was just getting to be too much, even though dd1 only woke once or twice, the baby wakes about 3-4 times a night too and I was starting to get very little sleep between the two of them.
Anyhow, good luck with the soother. I actually considered one too. Not sure why I didn't try it (hell, she's never taken a bottle and I was ready to try that too).


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

*UPDATE:*

Saw my regular dr today for a post-ER check-up. She says she guesses maybe food is getting caught, rotting and causing these infections. I'm to get an MRI next month and then see a gastro specialist the beginning of August to hopefulling figure this all out! She did mention possible surgery too.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Thanks for the reminder. Why 20 min? I thought it just took 5 min to disinfect w/boiling water?

you want those yeasties to be dead dead dead before you pop that pacifier back into dc's mouth. 20 minutes will ensure that


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2aprincess*
I just now found this thread at the recommendation of annikate- thanks!!! I'm going to start reading through the previous pages, but I hope you don't mind if I copy my post from nutrition and good eating to try and get some help for my mom. Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!

Probiotics kill h. pylori, so homemade yogurt everyday should be top priority. Finding a good source of grass fed raw milk would be excellent too. Culturelle or L. Reuteri are good capsules if that is all she can do right now.

Vitamin C at every meal. I prefer a natural source such as amla or acerola powder b/c they contain bioflavonoids. But for acute infections, sodium ascorbate is the best for short term large doses.
www.papanature.com

Eliminate all white sugar, white flour, processed food and no other vegetable oils than coconut to cook with and olive oil, unheated is best. Canola, corn, soybean, etc. are all rancid, increase free radicals in body and too high in omega 6's.

Cod Liver oil, see www.westonaprice.org for recs and dosing for 20,000IU or more of vit. A/day. See other recommendations there re: Know Your Fats. I really think it's very important to get the fats in the diet right for any sort of healing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
Lactobacillus plantarum (if it is possible to get in some form) might be useful - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&term=16701514

Interesting that you mention this... I just tracked down one of the only patent holders of l. plantarum in USA. Am adding this to DS's regime along with l. reuteri and goat milk colostrum:

http://www.drsinatra.com/c/prod_prob_solutions.asp


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If I'm not producing enough stomach acid, will the enzymes not work properly? I did the baking soda test and apparently am not producing enough stomach acid, so I wonder if that affects how the enzymes work.

Yes for your own enzymes.
For supplements, only for pancreatic or animal derived enzymes. Most enzymes on market are plant derived and work in both the acidic stomach and the alkaline intestines, so one reason why they are preferable to animal.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Nak

Went to the new Dr today. I had a 1 pg history of dd's health to start us off. Dr asked a few clarifying questions then told me that it is "time to wean". That weaning will fix everything.







:







:

She went on about it for a time but when I calmly but firmly told her that we would not be weaning now and that I knew it isn't a behavorial defect she backed off.

Their answer to everything!!









When I night weaned DS he only got worse not better.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
OT...
JaneS or somebody....
Now that I'm getting some sun some skin problems are showing up.
#1 white spots on my arms that don't tan, like missing pigment? Is it some kind of deficiency?
#2 I've had darker blotches on my face since my pregnancy and they are getting darker with sun exposure. Will anything fade them or get rid of them?

I'm not using sunblock for obvious toxicity reasons. I get about a 1/2-1 hour of sun a day for the vitamin D.

#1 I've heard this is either fungal or vitamin A related.








although aren't those 2 answers the ones I give to everything!! I swear I've read them though.

#2 This is hormonal, melasma. Not sure what effects this other than other hormonal influences in the body.

What about a zinc only sunblock? The mineral sunblocks, zinc and titanium dioxide, are the safest b/c they provide physical, not chemical protection.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--do you know anything about Betaine HCL? Like if I should take it with the Digest Gold, or just the Betaine HCL alone?

Hypothetically speaking, if I can never get my own gut fixed, could I keep DD from having long-term gut problems by only feeding her SCD legal foods until she weans (and maybe for a short time afterward)?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Forgot to mention. Wild Oats Organic Coconut milk is legal! I got all they had in the store today because it was on sale this month.


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Uh... what if the gut problems aren't diet-related?

I'm so frustrated. My dr. now wonders if part of my intestine may be holding old food hence it starting to rot and create infection after a while. She mentioned possible surgery. But surgery and intesintal issues is what STARTED my life out with all these problems!! ("NEC" at 2 days old and 9 weeks early.) I have an MRI coming up next month and then see a gastro specialist in August.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi, I am sorry to participate in this thread so sporadically. I am here once again with a question, and apologize anyone in advance if I gross you out.

Our 3 yo DS has had pale stools his entire life. We have been through lots with him, including food allergies and chelation. We also battle yeast. Lately his stools have been nicely formed, which is a *huge* improvement over where we were a year ago







, but still a very pale yellow color.

I have heard that low bile salts is what causes stools to be pale. Are the pale stools or low bile salts in any way related to yeast problems ? Also quite honestly, the idea that he might have a long-term liver problem really scares me. Am I over-reacting ? Or misinformed ? If he has low bile salts, is it maybe not so serious ?

Finally, is there something I can do besides continue battling the yeast ? I'm not giving up until my boy has normal, healthy digestion









Thanks !

Linda B.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Hi. I'm Chris. I'm 30 years old. I have autoimmune thyroid disease (as does my sister, mom, grandmother etc etc) and possibly rheumatoid arthritis. I've been researching a connection between gluten sensitivity and autoimmunity. I've also looked into the SCD and even though I don't have many GI complaints (my mom and grandma do), I think it sounds like a fine plan for healing any past damage done by the gluten allergy. I've been doing SCD foods for about 3 or 4 days now. I immediately noticed some mild bloating and lots of gas and a change in my poop color, are these signs of die-off? I haven't had gas and bloating like this in a long time. Also I had one of the worst flare-ups of all over joint aches and pains the other night. My children are both running pretty high temps now as well and I noticed my daughters poop looks like mine. Symptoms of our change in diet? good signs? bad signs? or possibly a flu bug going around that coincided with our diet change? Any advice on what to expect or not to expect during die-off would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.....


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Linda,
Look at this.

Chris, it all sounds like die off but I'm not sure about the *high* temp. How high is high? My dd runs a low temp during die off.


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Hi Annikate. I don't have a thermometer, but the patented mommy hand to the forehead guessed around 101-102. It has been a while since they've had fevers though, so that could be off.

Is there anywhere that I can read more about the signs and symptoms of die-off and how die-off causes these symptoms?

How long does die-off last?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Here is a link to one of Jane's posts (who else







) that lists the possible symtoms of die-off.

die off symtoms


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## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Moonshine, thanks for that link to Jane's post. That is great info!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Heh, perfect, because I have a die-off question as well. Yes, I read the post







:

I've been taking No-Fenol between meals for a few days now. "Coincidentally", DS, my nursling, has been having restless sleep for as many nights, thrashing and flailing about, and the same with naps. Today I noticed his little bottom around his anus is RED, all over. But he hasn't pooped in as many days either (this not pooping in 4-5 days is rather common for him, unfortunately). So...am I taking too much enzyme (just the regular dose, 1/4 tsp between meals which ends up being maybe 2x a day). Or is it die-off? He has such sensitive skin anyway, my thought is too much enzyme, but I want to get a second (third, fourth) opinion, one more seasoned than my own.

Also I am reading Enzymes for Autism - wonderful book! I am seriously thinking of taking Peptizyde as well - should I wait until the No-Fenol is finished? I'm also taking Betaine HCL with meals. And I am thinking Zyme Prime for DH, he has dermatitis or some such rashy thing and we're thinking maybe food allergies, he's never been tested or anything. He's had this for as long as he can remember. I'm currently doing SCD, but the book gives me hope that maybe the enzymes could be enough and I would be able to go back to NT?

Thoughts from the experienced vets?







:


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
#1 I've heard this is either fungal or vitamin A related.








although aren't those 2 answers the ones I give to everything!! I swear I've read them though.

#2 This is hormonal, melasma. Not sure what effects this other than other hormonal influences in the body.

What about a zinc only sunblock? The mineral sunblocks, zinc and titanium dioxide, are the safest b/c they provide physical, not chemical protection.

Zinc oxide and Titanium dioxide are also carcinogenic, from what I've read.
http://www.terressentials.com/truthaboutsunscreens.html

I guess I just need to up my CLO.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Heh, perfect, because I have a die-off question as well. Yes, I read the post







:

I've been taking No-Fenol between meals for a few days now. "Coincidentally", DS, my nursling, has been having restless sleep for as many nights, thrashing and flailing about, and the same with naps. Today I noticed his little bottom around his anus is RED, all over. But he hasn't pooped in as many days either (this not pooping in 4-5 days is rather common for him, unfortunately). So...am I taking too much enzyme (just the regular dose, 1/4 tsp between meals which ends up being maybe 2x a day). Or is it die-off? He has such sensitive skin anyway, my thought is too much enzyme, but I want to get a second (third, fourth) opinion, one more seasoned than my own.

Also I am reading Enzymes for Autism - wonderful book! I am seriously thinking of taking Peptizyde as well - should I wait until the No-Fenol is finished? I'm also taking Betaine HCL with meals. And I am thinking Zyme Prime for DH, he has dermatitis or some such rashy thing and we're thinking maybe food allergies, he's never been tested or anything. He's had this for as long as he can remember. I'm currently doing SCD, but the book gives me hope that maybe the enzymes could be enough and I would be able to go back to NT?

Thoughts from the experienced vets?







:

I'm not one, but I'm also curious to hear about it....
I'm also planning to get peptizyde and no-fenol, I'm taking Digest right now which is something like Zyme-Prime, but I'm running out and will switch to Digest Gold because it is stronger and has peptidase like Peptizyde, but not as much. So we'll see... I just don't have money right now to take several kinds.
My bf DD who is turning 1 soon (cake recipes?), still wakes up at least 3 times at night to nurse. It's definitely become worse since the enzymes, but I figured 3 times in not too bad... she also gets those pimple rashes, which is not too bad, only afew. Her torso was covered by them when I was on Candidase. So we definitely have yeast problems.

We're also staying more or less on a modified SCD. Still do yogurt, lots of veggies, meat, eggs, cheese (not me), kefir for me, CO, CLO, enzymes, supplements, also added NT oatmeal every few days because Karen D. says it helps to heal the gut. And with enzymes we seem to tolerate it well. I think the stronger enzymes will also help with eating out/MIL etc.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I've seen that, but I don't know what to do next, or how alarmed I should be.....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Linda,
Look at this.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Heh, perfect, because I have a die-off question as well. Yes, I read the post







:

I've been taking No-Fenol between meals for a few days now. "Coincidentally", DS, my nursling, has been having restless sleep for as many nights, thrashing and flailing about, and the same with naps. Today I noticed his little bottom around his anus is RED, all over. But he hasn't pooped in as many days either (this not pooping in 4-5 days is rather common for him, unfortunately). So...am I taking too much enzyme (just the regular dose, 1/4 tsp between meals which ends up being maybe 2x a day). Or is it die-off? He has such sensitive skin anyway, my thought is too much enzyme, but I want to get a second (third, fourth) opinion, one more seasoned than my own.

Also I am reading Enzymes for Autism - wonderful book! I am seriously thinking of taking Peptizyde as well - should I wait until the No-Fenol is finished? I'm also taking Betaine HCL with meals. And I am thinking Zyme Prime for DH, he has dermatitis or some such rashy thing and we're thinking maybe food allergies, he's never been tested or anything. He's had this for as long as he can remember. I'm currently doing SCD, but the book gives me hope that maybe the enzymes could be enough and I would be able to go back to NT?

Thoughts from the experienced vets?







:

Enzymes can definitely cause behavioral and skin issues, although I don't know whether it's the enzymes themselves or die-off. Enzymes caused a mild eczema flare-up in my DD. I started with 1/4 the recommended dose with one meal a day (because the first time I tried enzymes full strength she was cranky and didn't nap for a week until I stopped them), and it took me a week to get up to 1/4 dose per meal, and two more weeks to get up to a full dose per meal. The eczema's just now going away again (2 months later) but it never got very bad or itchy and there were no behavioral issues, so I guess the slow dosing worked.

As far as going back to NT with enzymes, I guess you could try some illegal foods once you are comfortably taking a full dose of all the right enzymes. "Enzymes for Autism" does make it sound like you can eat the SAD and be fine with enzymes, but I'm a bit skeptical, especially since I still didn't digest some SCD legal foods with enzymes.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I should probably post this in Dental, but maybe someone here can help...what else can I do within the framework of an anti-candida diet (good fats, meat, eggs, non-starch and low-carb veggies...no carrots, peas, or squash) to heal a cavity? I've had a sore tooth off and on for about 18 months and it's getting worse now so I'm pretty certain it's a cavity. But I think it is actually underneath a filling I already have, so I don't know how that will affect trying to remineralize it. I'm doing 2 tsp of high vitamin CLO and have been for a couple of months.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
I've seen that, but I don't know what to do next, or how alarmed I should be.....

Your issue is pale poop right? That is a classic sign of celiacs disease.


----------



## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Hmm, that is interesting. He and I did a 100% compliance gluten-free trial for four months (he is still nursing so I did it too). We did not see any changes at all when we took gluten away, and we did not see any reactions at all, either quick or gradual, after we added it back. So I had pretty much concluded that he's not reactive to gluten. He is very reactive to casein, but that hasn't been in our diets for a long time now, 1.5 years. We have never done a soy-free trial and I wonder if I should consider doing one. (I know I am the oddball in this thread, but we are not doing SCD - due to his food allergies, we would have to do it without dairy, eggs, chicken, or nuts, and I think all we could eat would be beans, pork, turkey, fruits, vegetables and water, so I'm trying other approaches.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Your issue is pale poop right? That is a classic sign of celiacs disease.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quick question mamas









Sorry, I've been absent, been camping w/a bunch of mamas!! One is also on the Maker's diet so it was fun.

We are about to go to a wedding (leaving tomorrow) and I need to make a cake for us. I'm stuck on frosting, any good ones? The other thing, I ruined 6 quarts of yogurt. Lovely. It turned into whey and maybe curds. And then along came this spider....







Anywho, is there anything I can do w/this, like make icing or something???

Thanks


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

AmyD, could you do cashews, coconut milk/oil, and bananas blended together?

i just saw a cool recipe for cake icing in "Feeding the Whole Family.." but i left my copy at home. it was based on cashew butter or something...


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Quick question mamas









Sorry, I've been absent, been camping w/a bunch of mamas!! One is also on the Maker's diet so it was fun.

We are about to go to a wedding (leaving tomorrow) and I need to make a cake for us. I'm stuck on frosting, any good ones? The other thing, I ruined 6 quarts of yogurt. Lovely. It turned into whey and maybe curds. And then along came this spider....







Anywho, is there anything I can do w/this, like make icing or something???

Thanks

Can you do dairy?
I made a frosing-type thing that came out yummy. First I whipped some heavy cream with vanilla and stevia (or you could try maple or honey), then I mixed it with macademia nut butter and kept whipping until it reached a creamy thick consistency. You can do it with almond butter. This is probably what I'll use for my cake for DD, but haven't decided on the cake yet. Maybe I'll try the macademia nut pudding from NT. DD won't have any anyway, since she is just starting to eat some solids plus nuts are a no-no at this age. But everybody else could have a healthy cake.

It might work with full-fat coconut milk, but it won't be fluffy like the cream.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

DD's 12 month check-up is coming up. Can anyone point me to the vaccine thread and where to find research that I can show the ped?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
DD's 12 month check-up is coming up. Can anyone point me to the vaccine thread and where to find research that I can show the ped?

Do you mean the vax forum? It's under the Health forums. Honestly I wouldn't bother showing things to your ped as he/she will be unconvinceable anyway...I would just tell them you're not vaxing (or that you're delaying if you're more comfortable with that) and that it's not open for discussion.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

So







re: this thread right now. I'll get over it.

*How Not to Have an Allergic Child*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=471144


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Do you mean the vax forum? It's under the Health forums. Honestly I wouldn't bother showing things to your ped as he/she will be unconvinceable anyway...I would just tell them you're not vaxing (or that you're delaying if you're more comfortable with that) and that it's not open for discussion.











You'll never convince the Ped. The most important thing to do is convince yourself and that means reading as much as you can in the Vax Forum and books.

When I finally passed the point where I feared the vaxes much more than the diseases, and I knew that nutrition greatly effects the outcomes and treatments of the diseases, I was comfortable with my decision.

Nutritional examples:

High vitamin C given several times/day knocks down pertussis/whooping cough much better than antibiotics.

Vitamin A prevents and treats measles so effectively there are programs in developing countries for this purpose.

P.S. I'm reading Momtezuma Tuatara's book on vaxes right now and it's incredible. So pay attention to all of her posts, she was one of the main reasons why my DS is not vaxed. (I started reading MDC when pg.) I know it saved us from autism or worse.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
We are about to go to a wedding (leaving tomorrow) and I need to make a cake for us. I'm stuck on frosting, any good ones? The other thing, I ruined 6 quarts of yogurt. Lovely. It turned into whey and maybe curds. And then along came this spider....







Anywho, is there anything I can do w/this, like make icing or something???

The *honey frosting* in BTVC is great.

Boil 1 cup of honey til soft ball stage (if you have candy therm. this is helpful, otherwise test a small bit in cold water.) It's before it starts to turn very dark, if it does, it's ruined.

Whip one egg white to stiff peaks.

Drizzle in hot honey while whipping constantly.

Add 1 teasp. vanilla.

Stays spreadable for hours. Keep cool, it melts in warmer temps like summertime. Tastes like vanilla marshmallow


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
So







re: this thread right now. I'll get over it.

*How Not to Have an Allergic Child*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=471144

Yeah I saw that thread. I thought about posting but you beat me to it. Funny how it's so much easier to believe allergies are inherited than that there is a lifestyle cause (and cure).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amy, re: yogurt.

Did it get too hot? Is it tart? What about draining it to separate the whey. Or you can just try to whip it together.

This actually happened to me recently with raw milk. I had some raw yogurt going and some pastuerized. The raw only separated. It really needs to be kept in the lower range of 100-110, it was 112. So the good guys weren't killed off, they maybe just grew faster. I needed to take my pizza stone out of the oven for summertime (I use the oven method with light on to keep warm for 24h).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nathan1097*
Uh... what if the gut problems aren't diet-related?

I'm so frustrated. My dr. now wonders if part of my intestine may be holding old food hence it starting to rot and create infection after a while. She mentioned possible surgery. But surgery and intesintal issues is what STARTED my life out with all these problems!! ("NEC" at 2 days old and 9 weeks early.) I have an MRI coming up next month and then see a gastro specialist in August.

NEC = necrotizing enterocolitis? This is a bacterial cause of the inflammation. Usually in formula fed preemies b/c formula is harder to digest and allows bad bacteria to flourish.

Physical problems with motility can be a cause, however, IMO there is always a dietary component can can help or hurt the entire process. The key is to figure out what exactly is going wrong and try to aid it.

Like why would your intestine "hold onto old food"? Your intestines are have little villi that secrete enzymes that help digest the food. For ex. in celiac disease, the villi wear away and therefore the food does not get digested properly.

If you have inflammation and colitis, could bacteria again be the cause of your inflammation and maldigestion?

If surgery, what kind and what is it supposed to accomplish?

Have you tried digestive enzymes?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Amy, re: yogurt.

Did it get too hot? Is it tart? What about draining it to separate the whey. Or you can just try to whip it together.

This actually happened to me recently with raw milk. I had some raw yogurt going and some pastuerized. The raw only separated. It really needs to be kept in the lower range of 100-110, it was 112. So the good guys weren't killed off, they maybe just grew faster. I needed to take my pizza stone out of the oven for summertime (I use the oven method with light on to keep warm for 24h).

I totally think it got too hot. It is very strange, lots of whey and then almost curdles, but not quite. I tried shaking and shaking and shaking, and nothing.

Its hard w/the new season and hot weather, I'm trying to experiment to find a method that works now, vs. 2 months ago.

Going to try that honey recipe







And the banana cake I think.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--do you know anything about Betaine HCL? Like if I should take it with the Digest Gold, or just the Betaine HCL alone?

Hypothetically speaking, if I can never get my own gut fixed, could I keep DD from having long-term gut problems by only feeding her SCD legal foods until she weans (and maybe for a short time afterward)?

Betaine HCL has hydrochloric acid in addition to pancreatic enzymes. The kind that only work in acidic environment. Very good for protein digesting but doesn't help starches or fiber.

Taking it with the DG is a trial and error process. It depends if you need the stomach acid help. There are also other things you can do to increase your stomach acid such as taking lemon juice with meals, not drinking a lot of liquid with meals.

Yes absolutely re: keeping DD on SCD foods and high probiotics. Avoid everything she cannot digest that is the key. I could have avoided most of this w/ DS if I never started on that stupid cereal as his first food and knew that his yeast diaper rash from hell and full body eczema meant that his intestinal flora was compromised by it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

"Yes, I'll look "different" in the locker room, GLORIOUSLY different."

Ok Amy, I'm finally asking, what the heck does this mean???


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llp34*
Hi, I am sorry to participate in this thread so sporadically. I am here once again with a question, and apologize anyone in advance if I gross you out.

Our 3 yo DS has had pale stools his entire life. We have been through lots with him, including food allergies and chelation. We also battle yeast. Lately his stools have been nicely formed, which is a *huge* improvement over where we were a year ago







, but still a very pale yellow color.

I have heard that low bile salts is what causes stools to be pale. Are the pale stools or low bile salts in any way related to yeast problems ? Also quite honestly, the idea that he might have a long-term liver problem really scares me. Am I over-reacting ? Or misinformed ? If he has low bile salts, is it maybe not so serious ?

Finally, is there something I can do besides continue battling the yeast ? I'm not giving up until my boy has normal, healthy digestion









Thanks !

Linda B.









Linda!

I don't know anything about bile salts. I do know there are supplements you can take, ox bile. Might try asking at Karen DeFelice's Yahoo group if it's related to yeast?

How is chelation going? There is a thread in Dental you might want to join "Chelating Mamas" to talk about it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Heh, perfect, because I have a die-off question as well. Yes, I read the post







:

I've been taking No-Fenol between meals for a few days now. "Coincidentally", DS, my nursling, has been having restless sleep for as many nights, thrashing and flailing about, and the same with naps. Today I noticed his little bottom around his anus is RED, all over. But he hasn't pooped in as many days either (this not pooping in 4-5 days is rather common for him, unfortunately). So...am I taking too much enzyme (just the regular dose, 1/4 tsp between meals which ends up being maybe 2x a day). Or is it die-off? He has such sensitive skin anyway, my thought is too much enzyme, but I want to get a second (third, fourth) opinion, one more seasoned than my own.

Also I am reading Enzymes for Autism - wonderful book! I am seriously thinking of taking Peptizyde as well - should I wait until the No-Fenol is finished? I'm also taking Betaine HCL with meals. And I am thinking Zyme Prime for DH, he has dermatitis or some such rashy thing and we're thinking maybe food allergies, he's never been tested or anything. He's had this for as long as he can remember. I'm currently doing SCD, but the book gives me hope that maybe the enzymes could be enough and I would be able to go back to NT?

Thoughts from the experienced vets?







:

Not pooping for a long time could be bacterial in nature. Yeast tends to cause loose more frequent stools.

Enzymes took some time for me to work up to, and I still have to be careful and not go overboard with grains. It depends on how damaged your gut is to begin with and whether you can right the balance of good intestinal flora.

The point of "E for A" in my mind is the enormous success high proteases have in aiding inflammation and digestion, as her rec is Zyme Prime _plus_ Peptizyde. This has been my personal experience as well. However, high proteases can be hard to get used to.

I wanted to post this link before re: hyperactivity and proteases to discuss here. We've talked about it a bit on the Nut/Imm 101 thread.

Quote:

Serotonin and Nutrient Availability
Copyright 2001. A New Idea to Reduce hyperness, anxiety, repetitive behaviors

The Idea

It may be possible that a particular combination of enzymes and foods are depressing the levels of an amino acid called tryptophan. Trytophan an essential amino acid that is not made by the body and so must be acquired by food. It is the precursor that eventually turns into serotonin...a chemical in the brain which promotes calmness. It might be that the increase in protein breakdown by the protease enzymes may be affecting the tryptophan/serotonin levels of certain individuals and this is why the proteases cause hyperness (along with any of the reasons given above).
http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Zinc oxide and Titanium dioxide are also carcinogenic, from what I've read.
http://www.terressentials.com/truthaboutsunscreens.html


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
"Yes, I'll look "different" in the locker room, GLORIOUSLY different."

Ok Amy, I'm finally asking, what the heck does this mean???

















It is in reference to an intact teenager being in the locker room w/his cut friends. But, we all now that intact boys are on the rise and if I wasn't homeschooling, he would be the majority in the locker room


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I would like to look glorious in a locker room.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I totally think it got too hot. It is very strange, lots of whey and then almost curdles, but not quite. I tried shaking and shaking and shaking, and nothing.

Its hard w/the new season and hot weather, I'm trying to experiment to find a method that works now, vs. 2 months ago.

Going to try that honey recipe







And the banana cake I think.

\

nak- I did the honey frosting on the banana cake. Not the greatest combo imo.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

: to Galeforce

Patty, what do you recommend? I was thinking of doing Jane's cashew cake, but it calls for like 10 eggs







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

I would like to look glorious in a locker room.
heheee! Me too!


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I am making spagetti and sauce....can anyone give me a guesstimate on how long it takes a 4 or 5 lb spagetti squash to get done when steaming it on a collandar over boiling water?

I am kitchen impaired. & I am afraid of yogurt. It scares me. The ingredients are here and I am procrastinating big time.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

BB- it'll take a long time that way. Cut it in half and place it face down in a casserole dish that's been *lined* w/oil. Bake it. I usually bake it for about an hour. To me, when it's really really done it tastes better. The oil helps too.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

OH thank you so much!!!!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
P.S. I'm reading Momtezuma Tuatara's book on vaxes right now and it's incredible. So pay attention to all of her posts, she was one of the main reasons why my DS is not vaxed. (I started reading MDC when pg.) I know it saved us from autism or worse.

What is the name of her book? And where could I get a copy?

Thanks, and sorry if I've missed this info somewhere!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I would like to look glorious in a locker room.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
What is the name of her book? And where could I get a copy?

Thanks, and sorry if I've missed this info somewhere!

PM her. It is called Just One Little Prick. Very captivating reading. If you have never read any of her posts...well, it is very engaging reading, let's just say.

Question on still trying to fully get into stage 1. Since cutting out all SCD illegals (coffee with milk and kefir) a few days after starting the intro diet, I am massively constipated. Not to the point of totally being uncomfortable, but it has essentially been 3 days. I am continuing to take it slow, but man, I feel like all I eat is protein. This can not be good for me too much longer, no? I did manage cooked pears ok today, so am hoping that's a go.

DH is impressed with my resolution.







I am just so sick of stomach issues, and this seems to be my best bet. If this doesn't work, I don't really know what to do.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







: to Galeforce

Patty, what do you recommend? I was thinking of doing Jane's cashew cake, but it calls for like 10 eggs







:

That cashew cake is delicious!!! Do it!

Something more like a creamcheese frosting I think you should be able to make that with dripped yogurt and honey. I haven't actually made a scd frosting that I liked, yet, but I haven't tried a cream cheese one yet either.

The honey frosting was really just like marshmallow fluff but even more stiff. The texture and flavor just didn't work (at least in our families opinion) with the banana cake. I think it would be much better on the date torte thing (which my mom made for my dad's b-day btw and thought was delish!)


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

I'm curious as to how folks here determined exactly what was wrong with your guts before you began the healing process? I know that both DD & I have problems but don't specifically know what they are.

I did get the enzyme book and am working my way through that but as of right now it hasn't talked about diagnosing.

I did have a stool test done for myself and it showed no yeast and an imbalance in the gut for which I'm supposed to take tanalbit & probiotics to help straighten out.

For DD I have no idea except that I believe she isn't absorbing nutrients since she passes a lot of undigested foods (of all sorts) in usually loose stools.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I would like to look glorious in a locker room.










You ALWAYS crack me up! How goes the Summer of Austerity? What are you eating?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







It is in reference to an intact teenager being in the locker room w/his cut friends. But, we all now that intact boys are on the rise and if I wasn't homeschooling, he would be the majority in the locker room



















Speaking of which one of DS's friends was just cut. Yup, at the age of almost 3 b/c his father reconsidered and wanted it done. Isn't that uke


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I was thinking of doing Jane's cashew cake, but it calls for like 10 eggs







:

Just make half (smaller than 9x13 makes a thicker cake) plenty big. Its good with pecans, the Choco Nut cake recipe w/o the prunes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
I'm curious as to how folks here determined exactly what was wrong with your guts before you began the healing process? I know that both DD & I have problems but don't specifically know what they are.

I did get the enzyme book and am working my way through that but as of right now it hasn't talked about diagnosing.

I did have a stool test done for myself and it showed no yeast and an imbalance in the gut for which I'm supposed to take tanalbit & probiotics to help straighten out.

For DD I have no idea except that I believe she isn't absorbing nutrients since she passes a lot of undigested foods (of all sorts) in usually loose stools.

I think one of the problems that it is intestinal flora imbalance with both of you. Is the book helping you understand the digestive process a bit better? There could be other things than bad bacteria or yeast such as celiac.

I had a lot of gas/bloating/anxiety and alternating loose stool and constipation. DS has had everything under the sun, right now very sensitive to a ton of foods, gets gas sometimes and sleep problems.

Tanalbit is interesting I've never heard of it. Plant tannins are supposedly one of the things DS's bad bugs are sensitive to as well, also berberine and uva ursi. The thing with that is that these are tested in vitro. And the mucus lining of the gut can protect the flora ... I think in biofilms... read about Elaine talking about them somewhere. So that is why sometimes antifungals/antibacterials don't work as well as expected in vivo.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Question on still trying to fully get into stage 1. Since cutting out all SCD illegals (coffee with milk and kefir) a few days after starting the intro diet, I am massively constipated. Not to the point of totally being uncomfortable, but it has essentially been 3 days. I am continuing to take it slow, but man, I feel like all I eat is protein. This can not be good for me too much longer, no? I did manage cooked pears ok today, so am hoping that's a go.

DH is impressed with my resolution.







I am just so sick of stomach issues, and this seems to be my best bet. If this doesn't work, I don't really know what to do.











If it doesn't work you will have learned something at least for the next step, trust me.









Not pooping in three days is NOT good. Are you drinking a ton of water. You might want to try some more cooked fruit if it's not giving you gas. Juice? On the BTVC website they suggest orange juice for constip. but I didn't tolerate that very well in early stages. Hot tea first thing in AM is supposed to help too.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yeah I saw that thread. I thought about posting but you beat me to it. Funny how it's so much easier to believe allergies are inherited than that there is a lifestyle cause (and cure).

Yeah.

But you know what is interesting to me?

Parents who have vaccine reactions often have kids who have WORSE vaccine reactions.

So something is passed down, through generational habits, nutrition, immune system or whatever...

Annikate pinged me to come here to answer a question, but I can't find the question to answer, so someone will have to







me.

Anyway, ask Jane S. She's the gut expert.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

MT, the question was about where to get your fabulous book


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Or maybe it was the one about vaccinations .. EBG asked where she should go as a newbie to find stuff to print out for her Ped. We pretty much said it's useless to try to convince 'em!


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

1) The book can be got from me.

2) Convince yourself of whatever choice you want to make and stand by it. The ped's opinion is incidental to the issue. You pay him, not vice-versa


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Plant tannins are supposedly one of the things DS's bad bugs are sensitive to as well,
Aren't pecans high in tannins?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
1) The book can be got from me.

2) Convince yourself of whatever choice you want to make and stand by it. The ped's opinion is incidental to the issue. You pay him, not vice-versa
Yup, the question was where to get the book.

And . . .this is why I just made an appointment with a new ped for dd (she is reputed for being non-vaxing friendly and uses a lot of alternative therapies w/her patients too.) I think she's also an ASD specialist.

I have an appointment for dd on July 12th!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

New Mama, how are you doing with your diet changes? I saw your post on the NT thread, but thought that I would ask you here, as I am more on this thread than that one.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I am going over dd's symptoms (again) so that I make sure I have everything written down to tell this new pediatrician and I remembered something about dd that I had forgotten.

Several months ago she had a couple of days when her breath smelled like sulfur. (I think that this was as we were starting SCD but I can't be sure.) Isn't this a sign that the body is chelating?

Anybody know?


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## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









Speaking of which one of DS's friends was just cut. Yup, at the age of almost 3 b/c his father reconsidered and wanted it done. Isn't that uke

Poor kid. My son would've remembered even to this day- 8 1/2- to tell the tale!


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Alrightly, I am new to this whole Leaky gut thing. I need HELP! There is too much to wade through!

My dd (1.5yo) has been having "issues" since she was born. Blotchy and covered in rashes, constantly sick. Colicky. So I did the elimination diet and she got 100% better when I cut out milk for awhile. She is still bf, and it seems like the older she gets, the more sensitive she is to the dairy. Usually, she seems to get symptoms a day or two after I eat something suspicious. I try to avoid things at all costs, but with cross contamination, you never know. I have even started becoming sensitive to milk and if I even get the slightest bit of whey in me I get GI problems immediately.

Over the past 1.5 months she has been getting outbreaks almost constantly. She first is really cranky and says her belly and butt hurts, then she is gassy, she gets a rash on her bottom that starts like a light pink, tiny spotted "lacey" rash on her privates, and then they get redder and more concentrated and looking more "hive-like", then it gets really sore and she won't sit down. Sometimes they bleed and we give her benadryl because she is in so much pain. And that helps tremendously. Then she gets nasal symptoms, diarrhea, weird light colored poops, sometimes mucousy and stringy. Then it goes away. This lasts 3-6 days, sometimes more depending on severity.

Her scratch test was negative, but they accidently pressed too hard on her milk one and made her bleed. By the time we left the allergist, she said that her butt hurts and she ended up with a horrible reaction, and we gave her benadryl just so that she would stop screaming all day.

Sometimes her rash spreads up her stomach and looks lacy or spotty like hives, and it almost always moves down her thighs as well, and up her butt and to her lower back.

I don't know what to do. I was reading a lot on the leaky gut and remembered one of the docs we went to said that at one stage of her rash that it looked "yeasty", but she certainly has never had a yeast infection, and I recall something about yeast having a role in leaky gut somewhere, but now I can't find the info.

And I must admit, the restictions I have seen for treating leaky gut diet wise are very intimidating. No wheat? You might as well strike me dead on the spot. I gave up dairy, but bread? I would die. It makes me think about how horrible the Adkins diet is (no offense if you like it, but I have read too much about how horrible it is and I have seen many people suffering health wise from it personally).

So what do you eat/do to treat leaky gut?

MT, I'm counting on you, here, help a girl out!!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*








You ALWAYS crack me up! How goes the Summer of Austerity? What are you eating?

This week was not as austere as it should have been, so I hesitate to weigh. I am consuming a lot of raw milk and very low carb dishes otherwise. And the water kefir drinks.


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## Momtezuma Tuatara (Mar 3, 2004)

Unfortunately dnw826, I'm not the expert on this. There are a lot of us trying to make sense out of a subject that is so new that few medical people even know what probiotics are outside of yoghurt, let alone the importance of gut flora in general. Some docs think that bacteria are "bad" in principle and see all types as a nail that has to be whacked with the an antibiotic hammer.

The bit that confuses me is that when yeast, or dysbiosis happens, they think that is something "new" rather than a result of the hammer they used which accidentally chain-sawed up something else.

Everything I've done has been error and trial. Sometimes I'm not sure what has worked so maybe I make another error.

It's very frustrating all round, and sometimes you feel like throwing your hands up in disgust. Well, I do.

Not long ago, a friend of mine was so depressed about something similar, we looked at each other and shrugged and I said "Let's go out... What do you feel like eating?"

And she said "I just want a huge steak and horrible greasy chips."

So I had chinese chow mein, she had a huge steak and horrible greasy chips and a week of a vast variety of normal things, and... in her case she came right. So sometimes I wonder if when we narrow horizons too far, we shoot ourselves in the foot.

So I've started to feel that if I like the smell of something or look of something, then I will eat it. Which means that today, I've had a bowl full of water melon, rock melon and a slice of icecream, two pieces of sourdough and a slice of real cheese. And 6 chocolate brazil nuts









We will see if I pay for any of that tomorrow









So I tend to get right back to basics, and just try to do simple things well. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesnt.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I've been glued to this thread since yesterday. Here's a quote from *MT* re: selenium & candida. (Plus other things.) Thought I'd share.

Quote:

What does selenium deficiency do? Well, with a deficiency, there is a reduction in the activity of the enzyme gluthathione peroxidase, and this results in reduced immune function, which has its greatest effect on the helper T dependent cells and production of Ig.M is impaired. Which is important since IgM is one of the front line Th1 antibodies which is made in the early stages of an infection.

Deficiency in selenium or Vitamin E also show reduced natural killer cell activity. (So why isn't Bradstreet looking at this? )Neutrophils and macrophages from animals with a selenium deficiency show low glutathione peroxidase activity and a failure to kill ingested candida yeast, yet bacteria killing may remain okay. (so why isn't Bradstreet looking at that?)

With regard to the enzymes. Glutathione is essential for
-detoxification and liver function
-effective immune response
-antioxidant defence
-male fertility (in my experience, low sperm counts can be turned around by organic diets, Vit E, Selenium and a multi-vitamin. Only problem (for some women) is a reported increase in male libido.......)
-blood sugar metabolism
-blood pressure regulation
-tumour inhibition
-inhibition of thrombus formation in diabetes
-prevention of neurodegenrative disorders like Alheimers disease, Parkinson disease, Huntington's chorea, stroke and brain trauma.

Effective Glutathione is important for T cell proliferation, development of large CD8+ T cells, cytotoxic T cell activity and production of CD16+ natural killer cells. Which results in poor response to antigen presentation, and weak immune responses to infectious agents.

Glutathion protects and repairs liver tissue under severe acute and chronic alcohol exposure (not that using it gives you an excuse to abuse even more )

Selenium protects against the toxic effects of the pollutants cadmium, and mercury. It helps prevent chromosome breakage in tissue culture...

It is interesting that children suffering from malnutrition fail to grow when given a recuperative diet, IF THAT DIET IS SELENIUM DEFICIENT, because selenium is necessary for protein synthesis.

While it protects against the toxic effects of the pollutant cadmium, and mercury from all sources, it also increases the effectiveness of vitamin E, and it reduces the chances of all types of cancer. In communities where selenium intake is low, the cancer rate is high.

An adequate intake of selenium for animals is 200 parts per billion, and this is probably sufficient for man. But I don't know how to translate that into a dose. So I wouldn't go beyond 200 mcgs. It is however, crucial for the proper functioning of the human body being a primary promoter of human cells mitosis/meiosis, and human "growth".

In animals selenium deficiency is directly related to nutritional muscular dystrophy, spontaneous swelling and haemorrhages, pancreatic atrophy, liver necrosis and infertility.

It appears to be stored in the liver, and remains constant in the blood until these stores are depleted...

It is the basis of the unique enzyme system Glutathion eperoxidase, which destroys peroxides before they can attack cellular membranes, while the vitamin E acts within the membrane itself preventing the oxidation of membrain lipids.... peroxidase activity represent overal selenium status... anemia in premature infants have been attributed to reduced glutathione activity in erythrocytes. Selenium does not substitute for sulphur in the body, as was once thought... but has a unique biochemical function.

Men have large stores of selenium, and secrete it in seminal fluids.

Selenosis is very rare. Too much selenium, generally absorbed from inorganic salts or from organic compounds in plants, produces toxic symptoms, as it is one of the most poisonous elements in the universe.

These include loss of hair, nails and teeth; dermatitis; lassitude and progressive paralysis. Acute poisoning causes fever 103 - 105... Increased respiratory and capillary rate, gastroenteritis, myelitis, anorexia and even death...

Veg food souces are brewer's yeast, garlic, brocolli, mushrooms, liver, shellfish, Brazil nuts and eggs. Animal sources are richer than vegetables. All foods lose selenium in processing. Brown rice has 15x the amount of selenium as white rice, and whole wheat bread twice as much selenium as white.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
New Mama, how are you doing with your diet changes? I saw your post on the NT thread, but thought that I would ask you here, as I am more on this thread than that one.

Thanks for asking!

Well, as you know, I'm an SCD drop-out.







:

But the changes I've made (yogurt made with raw milk, kefir from water kefir grains, soaking my muesli the night before and adding CO, eating cheese and eggs once again, having any bread I eat be sprouted grain or sourdough, taking CLO) have been great. I'm really enjoying eating this way and I've noticed a few changes: my poop is firm (sorry if TMI) -- I always thought it was so great that it was kind of loose because I never had any problems with constipation, but it wasn't an issue in the other direction, but now what I've learned about mineral absorption I'm thinking this is much healthier -- and I don't feel bloated as much as I used to.

But my son still has the rashy, pimply bumps (not colored) on his cheeks and arms. And although my acne seems better right now, it's not totally gone. Those things along with red bumps on the back of my upper arms (which I've had my whole life) have just prompted me to try upping my dose of the Blue Ice CLO to 2 Tbsp. a day. Is that okay to do while nursing (my son is almost exclusively BF)? And can I also give him a little bit of it?

So I feel good about the changes I've made and hope to do more. I don't have anywhere close to the issues that some of you poor ladies and your babes have, so I'm thinking that adding in probiotics, soaking my grains, and doing a few of the other NT-type things may be enough.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Can anyone recommend a zinc supplement? MT cited a few articles in another thread that linked long-term hormone use (as in BC pills) with zinc deficiency. I was on the pill for ten years before TTC my son. I have been taking a zinc supplement but it's just whatever my HFS had so I'm not sure how effective it is.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtezuma Tuatara*
Yeah.

But you know what is interesting to me?

Parents who have vaccine reactions often have kids who have WORSE vaccine reactions.

So something is passed down, through generational habits, nutrition, immune system or whatever...


I defintely do think there's some sort of a genetic component, like a genetic susceptibility maybe, but it generally has to be triggered by something to actually show up (hopefully I don't sound too much like those pro-vax advocates who say a baby seizing, etc after a vax was inevitable, IYKWIM, cuz that's not what I'm saying at all). But it's not always genetic (at least not apparently so) as my family and DH's have no history of allergies and my DD has food intolerances...


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

New Mama -- Just get an amino acid chelate form of zinc. Your health food store probably has one. Most likely they have zinc oxide and an amino chelate form. Get the amino one.


----------



## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I think one of the problems that it is intestinal flora imbalance with both of you. Is the book helping you understand the digestive process a bit better? There could be other things than bad bacteria or yeast such as celiac.

I had a lot of gas/bloating/anxiety and alternating loose stool and constipation. DS has had everything under the sun, right now very sensitive to a ton of foods, gets gas sometimes and sleep problems.

Tanalbit is interesting I've never heard of it. Plant tannins are supposedly one of the things DS's bad bugs are sensitive to as well, also berberine and uva ursi. The thing with that is that these are tested in vitro. And the mucus lining of the gut can protect the flora ... I think in biofilms... read about Elaine talking about them somewhere. So that is why sometimes antifungals/antibacterials don't work as well as expected in vivo.

Hi Jane,

The book is helping me understand digestion but not necessarily which enzymes to take. DD has trouble digesting a wide range of foods so I'm guess a broad spectrum for her.

I haven't been very consistent about taking the plant tannins. It was an alternative practitioner that recommended them to counter the specific kind of bacteria that is overabundant in my gut.

Another question. I was reading the section on the website about stools. She makes it sound like if you have "floaters" thats indicative of too much gas. So should all poops sink?

Lovely conversations. LOL.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Another question. I was reading the section on the website about stools. She makes it sound like if you have "floaters" thats indicative of too much gas. So should all poops sink?

Lovely conversations. LOL.

Well I first wanted to call this the Poop Tribe or something like that.









Yes, all stool should sink. It should be brown to dark brown, quite firm (thus the sinking), very smooth in texture and you should go 1-3x/day. It should smell but not stink badly.

Actually most people don't know that bacteria make up about half of your poop ... so your intestinal flora regulating your bowels make perfect sense.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826*
I don't know what to do. I was reading a lot on the leaky gut and remembered one of the docs we went to said that at one stage of her rash that it looked "yeasty", but she certainly has never had a yeast infection, and I recall something about yeast having a role in leaky gut somewhere, but now I can't find the info.

And I must admit, the restictions I have seen for treating leaky gut diet wise are very intimidating. No wheat? You might as well strike me dead on the spot. I gave up dairy, but bread? I would die. It makes me think about how horrible the Adkins diet is (no offense if you like it, but I have read too much about how horrible it is and I have seen many people suffering health wise from it personally).

So what do you eat/do to treat leaky gut?

Start with the Healing the Gut Tribe sticky at the top of the this forum. It will take time to learn and it is overwhelming.

It's possible that you don't have to give up bread, but the key thing here is to understand what your body can and cannot digest right now and work towards healing. The Specific Carbohydrate Diet is predicated on eating only which you can digest fully, and if the food still cannot be fully digested, it is of the type that will not ferment and continue to harm the gut. Again, we are all very individual but if you do have intestinal flora imbalance the likliehood of you not being able to digest that bread is high. Digestive enzymes and probiotics are the first step you can try, other nutritional suggestions are in sticky.

Perhaps a true sourdough or soaked grains according to _Nourishing Traditions_ principles as New Mama is finding out, will be enough for you. Good luck and be prepared for quite a journey!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I've been glued to this thread since yesterday. Here's a quote from *MT* re: selenium & candida. (Plus other things.) Thought I'd share.

My dream would be that any person who logged onto MDC would get a number of key posts popping up for required reading before continuing on. And that would be one of them.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, all stool should sink. It should be brown to dark brown, quite firm (thus the sinking), very smooth in texture and you should go 1-3x/day. It should smell but not stink badly.

I consider it a major step forward that my stool now does sink (since starting SCD). I have not worked up to more than once a day. Actually right now, I am just hoping for once a day. And for the yucky taste in my mouth to go away from eating so much protein.









On that note, I took pureed pumpkin out of the freezer to make something with. Any yummy ideas?

And my latest yogurt batch curdled.







This is why I don't make more at once time, even though it would be more convenient. I was rushing yesterday to get it started so that I wouldn't be out of it too long, and I guess the oven was too hot.









Must get ready to go to DDs school picnic. I am hoping there is some meat there I can eat. (Gosh, this is such a strange statement for me to make, but I really do mean it!)


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## Kissy (May 24, 2006)

I've just been lurking in here; got a link from somewhere in N&GE. Y'all have a lot of good info I'm thinking of incorporating into my and husband's diets.









Regarding:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Store-bought yogurt is not lactose-free because they don't ferment it long enough (24 hours or more).

Would it be possible to purchase a good quality, organic, whole milk yogurt, then leave it out on the counter to culture some more? Through experience, I've left bowls of yogurt out and eaten them hours later and they're more tart than when first served. I've also made yogurt for 2 children who like it different ways - the younger likes it after a 9 to 12 hour culture, the elder prefers a 20-24 hour culture. At times I've forgotten to leave half of it out longer for D., and took it back out of the fridge and left it on the counter overnight again; it always gets that nice tart flavor he really enjoys.

My presumption has always been that the bacteria/enzymes just ate up more of the lactose when it warmed up again. Perhaps if you left store-bought yogurt at room temp for 24 hours it would get it to (or at least closer to) where you want it?

I've never used a "yogurt maker" or "yogurt machine". I make my yogurt using glass mason jars or quart yogurt containers from previous store-bought yogurt (or sometimes I just leave it in the stainless steel pan to culture) and an insulated cooler. Well, and a $3 candy/frying thermometer, but before I bought that I just used a regular digital thermometer, since mine would register up to 110 degrees - I heated the milk 'til small bubbles ringed the pan, then cooled, checking with a regular thermometer. I've also heard that you can tell when it's ready by the ring of tiny bubbles - that's 180F, then when you can leave your finger in the pot of milk for ten seconds (but no more), it's about 110F and ready for the culture. I've done it that way a number of times when making yogurt for the boys and I've forgotten to bring my thermometer to their house and it's turned out fine, though not as consistantly thick and creamy as when I use a thermometer. Sometimes it's more runny, sometimes a bit grainy, but it always cultures - I assume (through my reading) that the texture differences are mostly due to starting with raw milk and not getting it hot enough to kill off all the natural enzymes. Whatever it is, it still tastes good. *grin*

Anyway, my husband received a soft-sided cooler designed to hold 12 20oz (I think they're 20 oz) Monster brand energy drinks, and it's the perfect size for either 2 quart-sized plastic yogurt tubs *when standing up* or my 2qt pot *when on it's side*.

While the milk is heating then cooling, I stick a milk/water jug filled with hot water from the tap (as hot as it can get) in the cooler. When the milk's ready to culture I take out the hot water bottle, wrap the pot/tubs in a piece of fleece, stick it in the cooler, then stuff up any open spaces with plastic grocery bags. Zip up, leave overnight, and I have nice, thick yogurt in the morning. I personally use Sky Top Farms yogurt as my culture and it's so creamy I'll eat the yogurt warm (but that's not what y'all are looking for!).

Recently, I've also had good luck using an insulated lunch bag to make up one plastic tub of yogurt, using the same method described above, minus the fleece. Actually, I almost never remember to put the hot water bottle in first anymore and it still turns out great.

Maybe you could get store-bought to culture more (for people who are unable to start from scratch for whatever reason) if you stick it in a pan of warm water that you keep at 106-110F until the yogurt is in that range as well, then try an insulated method of keeping it warm for an additional 12-24 hours?

Hmm. Maybe I'll give that a try right now with a cup of the yogurt that finished this morning.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but can anyone think of a reason why either way wouldn't work? I wish there was a way to test the activity content of homemade yogurt!

~Kissy, a beginning culture queen - yogurt, kombucha & sourdough pancakes under her belt. Next stop - water kefir, pickles and ginger carrots - yipee!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Kissy- Do you realize that you can make yogurt with raw milk by just heating it to 100 or so and then adding your culture and keeping it that temp for as long as you want? That will preserve the enzymes in the raw milk.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Does heartburn mean I have enough stomach acid? I have been wondering if low stomach acid is why I can't tolerate the enzymes. I've had heartburn badly yesterday and today.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Does heartburn mean I have enough stomach acid? I have been wondering if low stomach acid is why I can't tolerate the enzymes. I've had heartburn badly yesterday and today.









Apparently it can mean you have too much or too little...I guess the symptoms are the same. Did you try the baking soda test?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS (or anyone who knows)...can you address this:

This drift toward a high-protein diet further drives the effect of a decrease in tryptophan and net result of increased hyperness. Diets high in animal meats tend to create more toxins in the gut and some of those toxins are phenols. So the total phenolic load is increased. You are also removed a major source of magnesium which promotes calming. Thus, this correlates with the effect some people see of going on a GFCF diet and after awhile the person "becomes" reactive to phenols and "regresses". So you start removing phenols, probably more meats are introduced, and the cycle continues. By adding in enzymes and returning to a more balanced diet that includes whole-grains and possibly milk, you are correcting a magneisum deficiency, reducing the total phenolic load and favoring more serotonin production...all of these promote calming.

It's a quote Annikate posted on the Nutrition & Immunology thread in Vaxes (quote is from www.enzymestuff.com).

It seems logical to me that the toxins that are referred to come from feedlot animals, not pastured/natural/organic animals, but I'd like to get some more information on this as the diet I'm doing now is very high in protein and very low in carbs.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi! I was sent over here the "from mama's with bad skin" thread. I'm wondering if I need to do some healing. I am going to keep reading the thread, (haven't made it too far yet) but I bought some things to try to help today and I wanted to run it by everyone to see if I'm on the right track. I'm wondering if MY leaky gut has something to do with ds (five months) and the fact that he is sensitive to SOOOO many foods. I've already cut a zillion things out of my diet. I'm looking to help us both out a little.
Here's what I started taking today (if you know of something that is not compatible with nursing, will you tell me?)

Probiotic
Evening Primrose oil
Cod Liver Oil
Fish Oil
Vit B Complex
Vit E
Coconut Oil
Kombucha Tea (this says not to drink if nursing...is this true?

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....


----------



## Kissy (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovinglife*
...so I'd have to figure out a way to add [breastmilk] back that wouldn't be totally weird. I was thinking of putting it in a smoothie. Do you think that would work?

I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Kissy- Do you realize that you can make yogurt with raw milk by just heating it to 100 or so and then adding your culture and keeping it that temp for as long as you want? That will preserve the enzymes in the raw milk.

Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.









~Kissy


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

caedmyn -- I didn't find that quote at that link but just from what you posted, it seems odd. What is the high protein diet? I replaced my grains with vegetables, a better source of magnesium than grains. And animal products tend to be higher in tryptophan. Do they give more detail?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kissy*
I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.

Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.









~Kissy

You need to culture it longer and don't let it get too hot. I heat mine to just 100 and don't let it get hotter than that and I cluture it for 30 hours or longer. It thickens up more the longer you let it go I have found. Mine does have some whey but it isn't any more than the kind I have made where I heated the milk to 180. It definatly isn't a drink.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
Hi! I was sent over here the "from mama's with bad skin" thread. I'm wondering if I need to do some healing. I am going to keep reading the thread, (haven't made it too far yet) but I bought some things to try to help today and I wanted to run it by everyone to see if I'm on the right track. I'm wondering if MY leaky gut has something to do with ds (five months) and the fact that he is sensitive to SOOOO many foods. I've already cut a zillion things out of my diet. I'm looking to help us both out a little.
Here's what I started taking today (if you know of something that is not compatible with nursing, will you tell me?)

Probiotic
Evening Primrose oil
Cod Liver Oil
Fish Oil
Vit B Complex
Vit E
Coconut Oil
Kombucha Tea (this says not to drink if nursing...is this true?

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....

I'm a newbie at this too, but I just wanted to say







and welcome. I also came here via the bad skin thread. I've incorporated a few changes in my diet and you're right, it is overwhelming at first. Just keep reading and ask questions as need be -- these ladies are super helpful.

I started adding dairy back into my diet (I was vegan for several years) and located a great source for raw milk. So far I've been making 24-hour yogurt with it, but I hope to work my way up to drinking it straight. Sometimes people who have trouble with regular dairy do fine with raw dairy, so I wouldn't rule it out entirely if you have a raw milk source. My son was sensitive to dairy and soy (and who knows what else -- that babe was a major spitter-upper) but seems fine with raw milk dairy now. He shares a smoothie made with the yogurt with me every morning.

I've also started taking 2 Tbsp. of high vitamin cod liver oil, taking a zinc supplement, MSM and L-glutamine. I also now soak my muesli the night before and add coconut oil to it. I forgot to soak it last night, and this morning I had it anyway -- and I feel all bloaty and didn't even enjoy it that much to begin with. I also have only sourdough or sprouted grain bread -- I'm such a bread-lover that I think this could be the source of some of my issues (it seems like if you crave something, you may have a problem with it).


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Not pooping for a long time could be bacterial in nature. Yeast tends to cause loose more frequent stools.

Enzymes took some time for me to work up to, and I still have to be careful and not go overboard with grains. It depends on how damaged your gut is to begin with and whether you can right the balance of good intestinal flora.

The point of "E for A" in my mind is the enormous success high proteases have in aiding inflammation and digestion, as her rec is Zyme Prime _plus_ Peptizyde. This has been my personal experience as well. However, high proteases can be hard to get used to.

I wanted to post this link before re: hyperactivity and proteases to discuss here. We've talked about it a bit on the Nut/Imm 101 thread.

Right, encopresis. I just got to that part of the book where she talks about that possibility. Is it possible that at 10 months old - this has been happening since around 6 months - he could have this? He is still primarily BF for nutrition, too.

And what is the best thing to do for it? I hate relying on senna like we are. I've tried pear juice and it seems not to make much difference.

Thanks for reminding me about the tryptophan, too. She did discuss that in the book but it help to be reminded - there is so much information to take in! Looks like more bananas for us


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







: to Galeforce

Patty, what do you recommend? I was thinking of doing Jane's cashew cake, but it calls for like 10 eggs







:

Jane's cashew cake is dee-licious! I recommend it.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kissy*
I've heard of culturing bm into yogurt; however, how much of the goodness is lost through heating? Maybe since it's raw milk you could do a low-temp culturing. Couldn't hurt to google it.

Yes, I know that, but the yogurt tends to be very thin with LOTS of whey. The yogurt I make is just about as thick as commercial yogurt.

I'm currently experimenting with heating temperatures, seeing how low I can go and still get a yogurt that is palatable to both my husband and I.

I still prefer to start with the raw milk, since it's the best quality milk available to me.









~Kissy

I think you could also add gelatin to thicken it up - that's what a lot of commercial yogurts do. Or drain the whey and make the yummy cream cheese.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*

Wanted to find Kefir, but we can't have dairy. How do I find some that is in Almond milk or something?
Also....what are some examples of fermented food? How do I do that? I don't have the right resources to can my own food right now. How do I find fermented food that has been done correctly?

I'm sorry if my questions are silly. I don't really understand this quite yet. I'm going to keep reading, but could someone tell me if I'm on the right track? Am I going overboard? I'm going to have to read about this diet I keep hearing about....might be tough since I'm already so restricted.....

Kefir - you can make water kefir or juice kefir, too. You just need to find the right grains for it.

Fermented food: kimchi, saurkraut, wine, miso, sourdough, pickled foods. An excellent book to read is "Wild Fermentation".

Also the Nourishing Traditions thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=461751

HTH!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oy. I really really tried to hold out at the picnic, but finally I was too hungry and I had been sitting in front of all these lovely foods for a long time. I did just indulge in cheese and red wine that certainly tasted dry and then had 2burgers with guac (that looked like just avocado, but most likely wasn't). By belly is huge and uncomfortable now.









Off to go prep food for tomorrow.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Does anyone else notice a change of bms during AF?









I swear I always thought this was true and now I can't attribute it to anything else.

(I'm one of the unlucky ones who had AF return 6 weeks pp w/dd1 even though I ebf.







: At least AF waited until 10 months pp this time.)


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Does anyone else notice a change of bms during AF?









I swear I always thought this was true and now I can't attribute it to anything else.

(I'm one of the unlucky ones who had AF return 6 weeks pp w/dd1 even though I ebf.







: At least AF waited until 10 months pp this time.)

Yup. My entire menstruating life I have been looser when I bleed. Could it be that it's like early labor, the smooth muscles relax a bit to allow the uterus to contract and expell the lining, which also prompts the spincter muscles to let go sooner?


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Annikate said:


> Does anyone else notice a change of bms during AF?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:

I find that just before AF I get a little constipated (actually, it's probably just a by-product of my excess cheese consumption during the same time ). But if I go by what the stool info on enzymestuff.com says, I would still be considered to have diarrhea because I go more than three times a day.
This is the opposite of me. Just before, sometimes even hours, I have loose stools. Sure sign AF is on the way.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I have always heard that the loose stools at af time is an estrogen dominance sign and because of my endometriosis. When my endo is under control so are my stools. It has been a little out of control lately but I honestly just don't remember how it is effecting my stools. Too many other variables right now.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Yup. My entire menstruating life I have been looser when I bleed. Could it be that it's like early labor, the smooth muscles relax a bit to allow the uterus to contract and expell the lining, which also prompts the spincter muscles to let go sooner?









I've noticed the same thing during AF...not every one, and not all AF long, but usally at least at the beginning.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
caedmyn -- I didn't find that quote at that link but just from what you posted, it seems odd. What is the high protein diet? I replaced my grains with vegetables, a better source of magnesium than grains. And animal products tend to be higher in tryptophan. Do they give more detail?

http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm

Basically they're saying other amino acids in most protein sources are higher than trytophan and decrease absorbtion of it (at least that's what I think it's saying). They don't really explain what the "toxins" are as far as I can tell.

And maybe the whole link only applies if you have hyperness issues, I'm not sure. The "toxins in meats" part concern me, though.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Trying to get some insight here. Anybody know anything about it?
I'm posting this all over the place looking for some feedback.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Basically they're saying other amino acids in most protein sources are higher than trytophan and decrease absorbtion of it (at least that's what I think it's saying). They don't really explain what the "toxins" are as far as I can tell.

The magnesium comment is off-base. Gluten foods do not have high bioavailable amounts of magnesium. Most people replace then with vegetables which do have higher levels.

I don't know much about enzymes and haven't heard about proteases causing hyperactivity, so I really don't know. But what is odd about the argument from my perspective is that it was obviously written for people with gut problems and who are low in tryptophan. Eating foods relatively high in tryptophan and low in other aminos may not matter at all for people who are not digesting protein properly.

Are you trying to establish a new diet for yourself?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Ok..I really am going to do my yogurt today. Is it true that If using raw goat milk, that I only need to heat it to 100 (and not 180), and this will preserve other good stuff in it? Then, I put it in the 100 degree oven for at least 24 hours. right? Will dumping it into the glass jars after heating it cool it off?


----------



## Kissy (May 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
You need to culture it longer and don't let it get too hot. I heat mine to just 100 and don't let it get hotter than that and I cluture it for 30 hours or longer. It thickens up more the longer you let it go I have found. Mine does have some whey but it isn't any more than the kind I have made where I heated the milk to 180. It definatly isn't a drink.

Thanks, I'll give that a try with some of the milk next time.









I've also thought of the gelatin before; just haven't remembered about it while actually making the yogurt. heh heh heh.

So, no one knows anything about "reculturing" store-bought yogurt?

~Kissy


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

This might be a dumb question, but what in the heck are we supposed to eat in the 30 hours we can't use the oven? Will cooking on the stovetop effect the oven temperature? I think I'll go get some propane for the grill...or I guess we'll eat fruit, eggs, bacon & cheese.







: I've got my pizza stone ready, and I am cleaning out the canning jars. Do I need lids for these jars for while the yogurt is in the oven? or can I use aluminum foil? I don't have lids...crap...I have made 4 trips out for stuff to make this yogurt and I still don't have what I need....







:


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Bestbirths -- I don't heat mine up all the way. It is runny and I like the idea of gelatin.

If you need to cook, remove the yogurt and wrap it in towels. Make due on the lids. It will all be OK. I use the cooler method myself to keep them insulated.

Kissy -- I have never tried to reculture store-bought. I don't see why you couldn't if it's a good quality with actual live microbes in it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
The magnesium comment is off-base. Gluten foods do not have high bioavailable amounts of magnesium. Most people replace then with vegetables which do have higher levels.

I don't know much about enzymes and haven't heard about proteases causing hyperactivity, so I really don't know. But what is odd about the argument from my perspective is that it was obviously written for people with gut problems and who are low in tryptophan. Eating foods relatively high in tryptophan and low in other aminos may not matter at all for people who are not digesting protein properly.

Are you trying to establish a new diet for yourself?

I don't think the author of that website knows much about nutrition in general, so I'm not sure how accurate her comments are anyway.

I'm now doing an actual anti-candida diet (no fruit except lemons, lots of meat and eggs, CO & EVOO, low carb veggies--so no carrots, peas, squash, or starches). I'm having more die-off symptoms in 3 days of this than I had in a month of SCD, so I guess it's doing something.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

caedmyn -- Just stick with it for a month or so and try to get through the die-off symptoms. I've read quite a bit about amino acids but have never read anything like what you have linked. That's not to say it doesn't have some basis. But right now I would not let it worry you. You can revisit it later if you think you need it. I am sensitive to pretty much all grains and so I am not really sure that SCD would have worked for me either.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
caedmyn -- Just stick with it for a month or so and try to get through the die-off symptoms. I've read quite a bit about amino acids but have never read anything like what you have linked. That's not to say it doesn't have some basis. But right now I would not let it worry you. You can revisit it later if you think you need it. I am sensitive to pretty much all grains and so I am not really sure that SCD would have worked for me either.

I don't understand this comment. You do realize that scd has no grains at all, right?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't think the author of that website knows much about nutrition in general, so I'm not sure how accurate her comments are anyway.

I'm now doing an actual anti-candida diet (no fruit except lemons, lots of meat and eggs, CO & EVOO, low carb veggies--so no carrots, peas, squash, or starches). I'm having more die-off symptoms in 3 days of this than I had in a month of SCD, so I guess it's doing something.

\

I'm very interested in your diet. Where did you get it from? We are really struggling here and if I can cut back more to get some results I'll do it. I'm currently considering re-doing the intro diet to see what happens.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I don't understand this comment. You do realize that scd has no grains at all, right?

Oh, I thought some grains were legal.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So my friend up the street has lots of food allergy issues. Also her DS goes nuts when he gets any sugar/sweets at all. I recomended she try enzymes. She got the zyme prime while on vacation last week to try. She said that it made her and her mom feel hypoglycemic every time they took them. (she struggles with hypoglycemia). Any ideas on why that happened?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

kissy, I think the problem with store-bought yogurt is that they add extra milk, in the form of milk solids (nonfat dry milk powder), which ups the lactose content. Maybe if you cultured it for like 30 hours or something it might be lactose free, but who knows?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn, I'm interested in reading more about that diet too for dd1. She is the one in most need of help right now and I know it's all about yeast.

Update on dd1:
She is tolerating TONS of new foods and her sleep continues to improve. Don't want to say it too loud but she slept for 5 hours last night, was up to nurse and went back to sleep for 4!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

New problem with DD. She is almost 1... she's been bf like every 3 hours or so. Today she didn't want to nurse at all. Between 6 in the morning and 5 pm nothing. At that time she was sleeping so I picked her up and this half-asleep state allowed me to feed her but now she is refusing again. She just pushes away and cries. She did eat some veggies and a tiny bit of egg yolk but that's nothing. Can it be due to enzymes or yeast? Or does she have an ear infection? She is not pulling on her ears or anything and she drinks water fine. Is there something wrong with my milk? SHe is also teething but never refused nursing before....She doesn't have fever. Could she be weaning herself so suddenly? I have no access to raw milk and I don't know what I'm going to do if she keeps this up.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

EBG - Re: enzymes: How much/what enzymes are you doing? ARe you taking them or are you giving them to her?

ETA: No it does not sound like sudden weaning! Sounds like a nursing strike to me. WHy don't you post over in b'feeding too.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi! I'm new to this, but I'm already on a super restricted diet due to lots of food sensitivities in ds (five months). I figure I might as well knock out the few things I had left







My question is...is there a way to tell if I TRULY TRULY have either a leaky gut or yeast problems? I think I have some of the symptoms but I'm not sure? If I do, I'm wondering if it was what caused ds to be sensitive to so many things







I've been going through the thread and some mamas are talking about their kids having these problems and it breaks my heart! Will ds have issues when he starts solids!? It's one thing if it's me, but ds.....







: Have I ruined his system? I am, of course, willing to do the diet even if I can't find out for sure...just in case. But is there some way to tell? Someone told me about spitting in a cup of water to tell if it's yeasties....I'll try that in the morning. Any other more "official" way or do I just have to try the diet? I've been taking some probiotics for the past couple of days and ds and I have some gas for sure (he's so funny!)







Is that die-off? Does that prove something?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I know that one other way to know if you have yeast is if there is a whitish coating to your tongue. That's pretty common in yeastie beastie infestations. There are other ways, too, of course. If you Google "candida" you'll probably find a ton of resources.

I'll let the other more experienced Mamas field the rest. HTH.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Oh beautiful Gut-Healing Mama Gurus, might I pick your brains yet again?

I am trying to decide which enzymes DH ought to take. Zyme Prime of Peptizyde, or both? His symptoms are: dermatitis or something like it, rashy red stuff, flaky skin, all over his head, chest, even face at times. Responds well to toxic ick and not much else (coal tar and the like







). He MIGHT have a dairy sensitivity - we know he cannot do any sort of pasteurized dairy, he does not digest it well. His stools are good, though - firm, sink, he says good color (I haven't seen them personally














. He was recently on a mostly vegetarian diet and was eating eggs and raw milk with that, and some fish. Now has gone back to meat but is trying to eliminate allergenic foods except the 24 hour yogurt. We've seen no difference but it's only been a few days now. He says his stools are harder though, and he isn't goin g as often.

So which would you say he needs? One, the other, both?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
EBG - Re: enzymes: How much/what enzymes are you doing? ARe you taking them or are you giving them to her?

ETA: No it does not sound like sudden weaning! Sounds like a nursing strike to me. WHy don't you post over in b'feeding too.

Digest Gold about 1\2, we're working our way up. I'm not giving her any enzymes. SHe take CLO and that's it. She actually ate more solids today than ever, she is probably hungry but I don't know why she won't eat.

I posted it here because I don't know how much the bfing thread people know about enzymes and healing the gut stuff. What is a nursing strike?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So my friend up the street has lots of food allergy issues. Also her DS goes nuts when he gets any sugar/sweets at all. I recomended she try enzymes. She got the zyme prime while on vacation last week to try. She said that it made her and her mom feel hypoglycemic every time they took them. (she struggles with hypoglycemia). Any ideas on why that happened?

First of all, hypoglycemic people should eat low-carb. Amyleses will raise blood glucose levels. I don't know how much there is in Zyme-Prime, but maybe too much for starters. They might need to start with half a capsule or so, and restrict sugars in their diet.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EBG*
Digest Gold about 1\2, we're working our way up. I'm not giving her any enzymes. SHe take CLO and that's it. She actually ate more solids today than ever, she is probably hungry but I don't know why she won't eat.

I posted it here because I don't know how much the bfing thread people know about enzymes and healing the gut stuff. What is a nursing strike?
This is just my gut feeling on it and I could be wrong but I doubt it's the enzymes causing it. Babies that young also do not suddenly wean like that. A nursing strike is just what it sounds like. Babies refuse the breast for whatever reason. When they do, it's best not to think of it as weaning, but to offer the breast as much as possible (even if this means going topless around the house and co-sleeping if you normally don't) until they will nurse again.

It's extra important that your babe nurse now while you're working on gut healing.

The ladies in b'feeding will know more about nursing strikes than I do. My dd's never refused the breast even when I sometimes wanted them to!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

EBG: Nursing strike is also the first thing that went through my head. I personally have not experienced one, but I have heard they can even last a few days. Annikate gives some good suggestions and I would also hop over to the Bfing forum. I have _Breastfeeding Your Growing Toddler_, which I guess your DD isn't quite, but I can check in there on what to do for a nursing strike.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
kissy, I think the problem with store-bought yogurt is that they add extra milk, in the form of milk solids (nonfat dry milk powder), which ups the lactose content. Maybe if you cultured it for like 30 hours or something it might be lactose free, but who knows?

Is this true even if the ingredients say just milk (and whatever probiotics)?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Pattyla & Annikate--I found out about this diet at the candidasupport yahoo group...you have to join to read the files, though. If someone wants more info but doesn't want to join, PM me your email address and I'll send a Word document with the basic info on the diet. It is harder than the SCD I think, but easier in some ways too, as you don't have to introduce things by stages. I'm eating salads now (and apparently digesting them fine) but hadn't got up to raw foods on the SCD yet. There are some pretty yummy recipes, at least the ones I've tried so far have been good.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Next morning-DD is still not eating, I even tried mashed bananas, egg yolks, squash, even the NT recommended commercial formula. She doesn't want to eat. As for nursing, the sleep-nursing didn't work this time. She sucks once or twice then pushes away, and cries. Will see ped to rule out infections... I'll check the bf thread for nursing strikes... thanks for your help. I'm just a nervous wreck right now.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

EBG







Sounds like you are taking all the right steps. Hang in there.


----------



## Mama_in_Maine (Jun 7, 2006)

Hey all,
First of all I just want to add that since joining the Mothering forum I have learned tons and feel more empowered in helping my daughter and keeping my children healthy! Thanks to those ladies that have helped me find my answers and helped me to feel welcome!
My daughter has Autism and will be 3 in August. She is on GFCF diet (has been since August '05 except when we went off at Thanksgiving to see how she would react..a week later we were back on it!) She has eczema off and on and right now it is pretty bad on her legs and arms. I suspect yeast and really want to start to clean out her system..what are my steps and what are the products I need?
Also I am breastfeeding newborn twin boys. If I have yeast in my system I could possibly be passing it to them. How can eliminate yeast in my breastmilk and if they already have yeast, get rid of theirs as well?
One of the twins has pretty wet BM's, and the other burps a rotten egg smell. Could these be signs of Yeast? I'm thinking yes and as you can imagine I am severely paranoid my two boys will develop Autism as well and want to do everything I can...
Thanks for your help!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I started taking 2 Tbsp. of the Blue Ice CLO -- does anyone know if high doses are okay for nursing? I may go to 3 Tbsp. for a week or so if it's okay. And if it _is_ okay, should I also give ds some? Or would he be getting enough of it through my BM (he's almost EBF)? (I'm hoping to clear up acne and those pesky red bumps on the back of my arms in me, and a pimply rash on ds's cheeks and upper arms.)


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

New Mama, I am taking 2 tbs of Blue Ice (and nursing). I am not giving any to my nursling DD, but then I am also not trying to "fix" anything with her. I am giving it to my older DD, when she will take it.

ETA: I also have to those red bumps. There are very slight and don't bother me any, but I was hoping that with CO and CLO they would go away. Still waiting.


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Uh-oh, nevermind! I was trying to post to a different thread!









(Too busy lurking here today to add anything worthwhile!)


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_in_Maine*
Hey all,
First of all I just want to add that since joining the Mothering forum I have learned tons and feel more empowered in helping my daughter and keeping my children healthy! Thanks to those ladies that have helped me find my answers and helped me to feel welcome!
My daughter has Autism and will be 3 in August. She is on GFCF diet (has been since August '05 except when we went off at Thanksgiving to see how she would react..a week later we were back on it!) She has eczema off and on and right now it is pretty bad on her legs and arms. I suspect yeast and really want to start to clean out her system..what are my steps and what are the products I need?
Also I am breastfeeding newborn twin boys. If I have yeast in my system I could possibly be passing it to them. How can eliminate yeast in my breastmilk and if they already have yeast, get rid of theirs as well?
One of the twins has pretty wet BM's, and the other burps a rotten egg smell. Could these be signs of Yeast? I'm thinking yes and as you can imagine I am severely paranoid my two boys will develop Autism as well and want to do everything I can...
Thanks for your help!

There is a wonderful book called "Enzymes for Autism" by Karen De felice. I just finished reading it myself after seeing it recommended here so many times. I think it would be a great resource for you, as well.

Also http://www.enzymestuff.com


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I started taking 2 Tbsp. of the Blue Ice CLO -- does anyone know if high doses are okay for nursing? I may go to 3 Tbsp. for a week or so if it's okay. And if it is okay, should I also give ds some? Or would he be getting enough of it through my BM (he's almost EBF)? (I'm hoping to clear up acne and those pesky red bumps on the back of my arms in me, and a pimply rash on ds's cheeks and upper arms.)
Here are some CLO guidelinesfrom the WAP Foundation.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Mama_in_Maine*
Hey all,
First of all I just want to add that since joining the Mothering forum I have learned tons and feel more empowered in helping my daughter and keeping my children healthy! Thanks to those ladies that have helped me find my answers and helped me to feel welcome!
My daughter has Autism and will be 3 in August. She is on GFCF diet (has been since August '05 except when we went off at Thanksgiving to see how she would react..a week later we were back on it!) She has eczema off and on and right now it is pretty bad on her legs and arms. I suspect yeast and really want to start to clean out her system..what are my steps and what are the products I need?
Also I am breastfeeding newborn twin boys. If I have yeast in my system I could possibly be passing it to them. How can eliminate yeast in my breastmilk and if they already have yeast, get rid of theirs as well?
One of the twins has pretty wet BM's, and the other burps a rotten egg smell. Could these be signs of Yeast? I'm thinking yes and as you can imagine I am severely paranoid my two boys will develop Autism as well and want to do everything I can...
Thanks for your help!
Mama did you read through this sticky?


----------



## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Is it possible to have very few physical symptoms but have mental symptoms from food intolerances? I don't have a lot of physical symptoms (but I do have some) but I have been having an awful time mentally. I keep having these episodes of extreme anger & I have trouble controlling myself around DD (yelling at her and stuff). It occurred to me today that it might be related to some of the foods I'm eating but I'm not sure yet.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Off to read more about the enzymes.


----------



## Nathan1097 (Nov 20, 2001)

I posted a separate thread about this but I think it got burried.

Anybody that's had a colonoscopy and/or done a colon cleansing and/or used go-lytely get their electrolytes all messed up? I've felt really spacey and dizzy lately and eating and drinking doesn't seem to help. They've said my iron is fine and it doesn't seem like anxiety, although the nurse today said "if it happens when you're not at home it could be..." D'oh!







I don't have social phobias!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

moonshine, I think if it doesn't say they add extra milk solids, that should be ok, but call them just to be sure. What's the problem with just using this yogurt as starter, anyway?

This may be slightly OT: Lately, DS has been having nosebleeds almost every day, and often his nose bleeds more than once in a day, and pretty profusely. He eats a lot of raw fruit -- could this be the problem? I know salicylates can increase nosebleeds. He doesn't eat much of any green veggies either -- should I buy some vitamin K to give him? Should I call our ND? Buy and give him no fenol?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Is it possible to have very few physical symptoms but have mental symptoms from food intolerances? I don't have a lot of physical symptoms (but I do have some) but I have been having an awful time mentally. I keep having these episodes of extreme anger & I have trouble controlling myself around DD (yelling at her and stuff). It occurred to me today that it might be related to some of the foods I'm eating but I'm not sure yet.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Off to read more about the enzymes.

This is my 4 yr old son to a tee. We are presently trying to keep him from killing the cats. Sigh.

In a homeopathy book, I read somewhere that the skin was the first organ to show a reaction. If it is ignored, it spreads somewhere else, like the brain, affecting his behavior.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Help me, wise experienced SCD Mamas.

I am now almost 2 weeks on SCD. After giving up my last illegals (coffee and water kefir) a few days into it, I got massively constipated, which has yet to subside. Basically it has been almost a week w/o a "normal" stool. I have added in a few foods (cooked apples and pears, asparagus, avocado, banana, cooked strawberries, cooked carrots, green beans, spinach --although not all of them agreed with me), but I really feel like I am on a protein diet, to the exclusion of most everything else. I have had an awful taste in my mouth for a while (since starting) and now my nursling also has awful breath since last night.

I am taking Zyme Prime with meals and Wobenzyme in between. I have ordered Pepizyde and No Fenol, although I am still waiting on them. Oh, and I started eating cooked prunes in the evening to see if that would help. I did try orange juice one morning, but it didn't make me feel great.

I pulled out the book again today to see if I could find more information about how to proceed. I read that the marker to continue with more and different foods is diarreha, and that raw fruits and veggies can have a laxative effect, therefore they need to be cooked. So what about someone like me, who pretty much never has loose stool? I did add a few black currants that I have from my garden to my yogurt today, just to see how that would go.








I am despairing a bit.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

moonshine, are you getting enough magnesium? A magnesium deficiency can cause constipation. But so can die-off, unfortunately. Have you tried an enema?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Oh beautiful Gut-Healing Mama Gurus, might I pick your brains yet again?

I am trying to decide which enzymes DH ought to take. Zyme Prime of Peptizyde, or both? His symptoms are: dermatitis or something like it, rashy red stuff, flaky skin, all over his head, chest, even face at times. Responds well to toxic ick and not much else (coal tar and the like







). He MIGHT have a dairy sensitivity - we know he cannot do any sort of pasteurized dairy, he does not digest it well. His stools are good, though - firm, sink, he says good color (I haven't seen them personally














. He was recently on a mostly vegetarian diet and was eating eggs and raw milk with that, and some fish. Now has gone back to meat but is trying to eliminate allergenic foods except the 24 hour yogurt. We've seen no difference but it's only been a few days now. He says his stools are harder though, and he isn't goin g as often.

So which would you say he needs? One, the other, both?

Reposting because I think it got lost in the thread? And am hoping for help







:


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Help me, wise experienced SCD Mamas.

I am now almost 2 weeks on SCD. After giving up my last illegals (coffee and water kefir) a few days into it, I got massively constipated, which has yet to subside. Basically it has been almost a week w/o a "normal" stool. I have added in a few foods (cooked apples and pears, asparagus, avocado, banana, cooked strawberries, cooked carrots, green beans, spinach --although not all of them agreed with me), but I really feel like I am on a protein diet, to the exclusion of most everything else. I have had an awful taste in my mouth for a while (since starting) and now my nursling also has awful breath since last night.

I am taking Zyme Prime with meals and Wobenzyme in between. I have ordered Pepizyde and No Fenol, although I am still waiting on them. Oh, and I started eating cooked prunes in the evening to see if that would help. I did try orange juice one morning, but it didn't make me feel great.

I pulled out the book again today to see if I could find more information about how to proceed. I read that the marker to continue with more and different foods is diarreha, and that raw fruits and veggies can have a laxative effect, therefore they need to be cooked. So what about someone like me, who pretty much never has loose stool? I did add a few black currants that I have from my garden to my yogurt today, just to see how that would go.








I am despairing a bit.

Moonshine, I've battled constipation for the entire 7-8 weeks I've been on the diet. The only way I've been able to keep it under control (a BM every 2-3 days) is to have a little bit of celery every day, which is less than helpful for you if you aren't yet tolerating celery. I'll be curious to hear how the prunes do for you, becaues I could could use some help with this myself.

I have a question of my own: I've determined pretty definatively that cow yogurt is not going well. I've bought some goat's milk to make goat yogurt, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the starter. Any commercial goat yogurt for starter has tapioca in it (SCD illegal). I would just go with the freeze-dried Yogourmet starter, but I'm so confused about the ingredients in it: for one, it has sucrose in it. Is this starter legal because of the assumption that the disaccharide will get digested during the culturing?
And what I'm really confused about is the starter also has powdered Skim Milk, presumably from cow dairy. Those of you who have only done well on goat yogurt, did you do well in spite of using a starter like this? I can't help but think that I won't do well on this yogurt because it still has cow protein in it. I'm so frustrated.....I'm taking bone broth every day, but it's such a leap of faith that this liquid that I made myself from bones is giving me the calcium that I only associated with yummy, white dairy products.......







:
Sorry to ask this when I'm certain that this has been discussed before - when will they bring back the search function? :-(


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Yea, I have been taking magnesium. Maybe not enough. Enema? No, haven't gotten there yet.







:

I just found out today that I can get raw milk for something like $4.50 a 1/2 gallon. This seems like a reasonable price. There is a bit of driving involved, but I guess that figures. They have other products -- pastured eggs, other raw milk products. Worth it for the healing properties? Right now I am using pasturized non-homogenized organic milk (which I get for a little less than $4.00 a half gallon, incidentally).


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Sorry to ask this when I'm certain that this has been discussed before - when will they bring back the search function? :-(

It's going to be disabled until MDC moves to a new server. It is rumored that this will be around the 4th of July.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

We just ate some of our yogurt. It is runny, and a little bit curd and whey ish, but very tart. We used raw goat.

In order to get it so they would eat it, dd thought up putting a TON of honey and cinnamon, peach juice, and peaches in it....but it was still tart. We blended it with ice to make it less runny.

What other things work well to turn the tartness down?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Yea, I have been taking magnesium. Maybe not enough. Enema? No, haven't gotten there yet.







:

I just found out today that I can get raw milk for something like $4.50 a 1/2 gallon. This seems like a reasonable price. There is a bit of driving involved, but I guess that figures. They have other products -- pastured eggs, other raw milk products. Worth it for the healing properties? Right now I am using pasturized non-homogenized organic milk (which I get for a little less than $4.00 a half gallon, incidentally).

Definitely worth it! You might want to get the pastured eggs, too, if possible--I so wish I could get pastured eggs but I can't find any around here.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I have a question of my own: I've determined pretty definatively that cow yogurt is not going well. I've bought some goat's milk to make goat yogurt, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the starter. Any commercial goat yogurt for starter has tapioca in it (SCD illegal). I would just go with the freeze-dried Yogourmet starter, but I'm so confused about the ingredients in it: for one, it has sucrose in it. Is this starter legal because of the assumption that the disaccharide will get digested during the culturing?
And what I'm really confused about is the starter also has powdered Skim Milk, presumably from cow dairy. Those of you who have only done well on goat yogurt, did you do well in spite of using a starter like this? I can't help but think that I won't do well on this yogurt because it still has cow protein in it. I'm so frustrated.....I'm taking bone broth every day, but it's such a leap of faith that this liquid that I made myself from bones is giving me the calcium that I only associated with yummy, white dairy products.......







:
Sorry to ask this when I'm certain that this has been discussed before - when will they bring back the search function? :-(

My best suggestion is to go ahead and use commercial goat yogurt as a starter--at least you know it's all goat, and the little bit of tapioca isn't going to kill the diet, IMO. Then if you tolerate it okay after awhile you can go ahead and buy the expensive non-dairy yogurt starter. Or you could try using probiotic caplets to start your yogurt...there's more info on that on the priobiotic thread that's somewhere in this forum.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
We just ate some of our yogurt. It is runny, and a little bit curd and whey ish, but very tart. We used raw goat.

In order to get it so they would eat it, dd thought up putting a TON of honey and cinnamon, peach juice, and peaches in it....but it was still tart. We blended it with ice to make it less runny.

What other things work well to turn the tartness down?

For cow yogurt when it's too tart I drain out the whey. The creamy yogurt that's left seems much less tart to me.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
For cow yogurt when it's too tart I drain out the whey. The creamy yogurt that's left seems much less tart to me.
Same here. I LOVE all the new things I'm learning to do with my whey though!


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Constipation

When I did the candida diet, I had terrible constipation. My chiropracter directed me to drink a gallon of water a day for a week. That took care of it. After that I drank normal amounts (probably 10 cups or so a day).


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Same here. I LOVE all the new things I'm learning to do with my whey though!

Like what?









ETA: This brilliant post was my 1000th.







:


----------



## wisdomkeeper (May 11, 2006)

Anyone know what the carbohydrate amount in yogurt prepared the SCD way is? Would it be the same or similar to store-bought yogurt or different?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
ETA: This brilliant post was my 1000th.







:

Woohoo!!!!!!!!

Any senior title ideas?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Oh man, I just hit 3,000 and missed it. Without the search feature, I don't think I can figure out which one it was. Probably something ridiculous.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

haha. How about this for a senior title: "huh?"

I'm learning to make fermented stuff NT style using my whey. Just a newbie.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
haha. How about this for a senior title: "huh?"

What are you saying, I don't have a clue??


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm sure my 1000th had one of these words in it:
gas
bloating
poopy

Oh, and I'm sure it was a question related to one of the above.

Couldn't have been some profound knowledge I was passing along on, say, the GD thread or anything . . .


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_in_Maine*
Hey all,
First of all I just want to add that since joining the Mothering forum I have learned tons and feel more empowered in helping my daughter and keeping my children healthy! Thanks to those ladies that have helped me find my answers and helped me to feel welcome!
My daughter has Autism and will be 3 in August. She is on GFCF diet (has been since August '05 except when we went off at Thanksgiving to see how she would react..a week later we were back on it!) She has eczema off and on and right now it is pretty bad on her legs and arms. I suspect yeast and really want to start to clean out her system..what are my steps and what are the products I need?
Also I am breastfeeding newborn twin boys. If I have yeast in my system I could possibly be passing it to them. How can eliminate yeast in my breastmilk and if they already have yeast, get rid of theirs as well?
One of the twins has pretty wet BM's, and the other burps a rotten egg smell. Could these be signs of Yeast? I'm thinking yes and as you can imagine I am severely paranoid my two boys will develop Autism as well and want to do everything I can...
Thanks for your help!

Welcome and







!

It could not just be yeast but also bad bacteria. In any even, a gut flora imbalance. Very, very common in ASD kids. Is she vaxed? Are you vaxing your boys?

The thing with the GFCF diet is that there is still a lot of carbs that the yeast/bacteria can be feeding off of. This is the ASD info on the SCD, see what you think:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ism/autism.htm
(the links are green kind of hard to see)
www.pecanbread.com a CF version of SCD for ASD kids

Have you tried any biomedical approaches with your DD?
This might be a good place to start reading there are sooo many links, although with twins you really have your hands full!!
http://www.danasview.net/index.htm
What do you think about chelation?

Do you have yeast symptoms? You can do SCD as well certainly. There are only a few things bf'ing mamas can take. The other issue to think about is optimal nutrition re: protecting your sons. There are a couple very interesting threads in the Vaccinations forum "Causes of Autism" and "Nutrition/Immunology 101".


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
Hi! I'm new to this, but I'm already on a super restricted diet due to lots of food sensitivities in ds (five months). I figure I might as well knock out the few things I had left







My question is...is there a way to tell if I TRULY TRULY have either a leaky gut or yeast problems? I think I have some of the symptoms but I'm not sure? If I do, I'm wondering if it was what caused ds to be sensitive to so many things







I've been going through the thread and some mamas are talking about their kids having these problems and it breaks my heart! Will ds have issues when he starts solids!? It's one thing if it's me, but ds.....







: Have I ruined his system? I am, of course, willing to do the diet even if I can't find out for sure...just in case. But is there some way to tell? Someone told me about spitting in a cup of water to tell if it's yeasties....I'll try that in the morning. Any other more "official" way or do I just have to try the diet? I've been taking some probiotics for the past couple of days and ds and I have some gas for sure (he's so funny!)







Is that die-off? Does that prove something?











Hello Kombucha question mama









Now that I see this I wouldn't do it if I were you. It can be quite strong.

Well coming from someone who wrecked their DS's digestion I can say I've certainly learned a lot in the process!









Fruits, veggies, meats, eggs and fats for first year only, with dairy towards the end of the year, yogurt butter first and go carefully with it if suspect intolerance. NO horrid cereal. They don't have the enzymes to digest it and it ends up feeding the bad gut bugs.

The most "official" way to tell what is going on with your gut is stool testing or the OAT which is a urine test ...reportedly more accurate than stool but hard to do with kids. You could do the OAT. See the Healing the Gut Tribe sticky for more info. It will show if there are yeast and bacteria issues.

Or just go by your other symptoms and stools.

Yes die off can cause gas, it could indeed be significant.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Right, encopresis. I just got to that part of the book where she talks about that possibility. Is it possible that at 10 months old - this has been happening since around 6 months - he could have this? He is still primarily BF for nutrition, too.

And what is the best thing to do for it? I hate relying on senna like we are. I've tried pear juice and it seems not to make much difference.

Yes I absolutely think all constipation is a gut flora issue and its likely that the senna is doing something to his flora as well, I don't know much about it though.

Have you tried magnesium? Natural Calm makes "Baby Calm" but I don't know how it's different. Mag. is fantastic for constipation.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS (or anyone who knows)...can you address this:

This drift toward a high-protein diet further drives the effect of a decrease in tryptophan and net result of increased hyperness. Diets high in animal meats tend to create more toxins in the gut and some of those toxins are phenols. So the total phenolic load is increased. You are also removed a major source of magnesium which promotes calming. Thus, this correlates with the effect some people see of going on a GFCF diet and after awhile the person "becomes" reactive to phenols and "regresses". So you start removing phenols, probably more meats are introduced, and the cycle continues. By adding in enzymes and returning to a more balanced diet that includes whole-grains and possibly milk, you are correcting a magneisum deficiency, reducing the total phenolic load and favoring more serotonin production...all of these promote calming.

It's a quote Annikate posted on the Nutrition & Immunology thread in Vaxes (quote is from www.enzymestuff.com).

It seems logical to me that the toxins that are referred to come from feedlot animals, not pastured/natural/organic animals, but I'd like to get some more information on this as the diet I'm doing now is very high in protein and very low in carbs.

No the toxins she refers to are the byproducts by not digesting the protein fully.

I completely believe this is DS's issue. His meat intake went up, he couldn't digest it all fully. Presto, bacterial problems. He's always had sleeping issues so that's nothing new.

We are having some luck now. Second week of L. Reuteri cultured in yogurt and sometimes taking the capsules. Started Biocidin for his bacterial issues with a big noticable change in current sleeping problems.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Does heartburn mean I have enough stomach acid? I have been wondering if low stomach acid is why I can't tolerate the enzymes. I've had heartburn badly yesterday and today.









It's more complicated than that. It's definately related to gut flora and die off as I had a transition phase where I had this all the time and then it resolved. I know I've read more about it but I forget where ... it might come to me later.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Is it possible to have very few physical symptoms but have mental symptoms from food intolerances? I don't have a lot of physical symptoms (but I do have some) but I have been having an awful time mentally. I keep having these episodes of extreme anger & I have trouble controlling myself around DD (yelling at her and stuff). It occurred to me today that it might be related to some of the foods I'm eating but I'm not sure yet.

Has this happened to anyone else?

Off to read more about the enzymes.











Abso-freakin'-lutely. Well I had the physical symptoms too of course but let me tell you, the mental (and sleep) issues are so gone it's amazing. Gale Force and her amino acid connection is really onto something. Your brain runs on neurotransmitters and whether your diet contains them or you are are/are not digesting them are both factors.

Was it the Mood Cure website that people were taking tests on a while ago?

I think rage issues are another side of the coin to PPD. When I read Amanda's info. I realized I had PPD.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Oh beautiful Gut-Healing Mama Gurus, might I pick your brains yet again?

I am trying to decide which enzymes DH ought to take. Zyme Prime of Peptizyde, or both? His symptoms are: dermatitis or something like it, rashy red stuff, flaky skin, all over his head, chest, even face at times. Responds well to toxic ick and not much else (coal tar and the like







). He MIGHT have a dairy sensitivity - we know he cannot do any sort of pasteurized dairy, he does not digest it well. His stools are good, though - firm, sink, he says good color (I haven't seen them personally














. He was recently on a mostly vegetarian diet and was eating eggs and raw milk with that, and some fish. Now has gone back to meat but is trying to eliminate allergenic foods except the 24 hour yogurt. We've seen no difference but it's only been a few days now. He says his stools are harder though, and he isn't goin g as often.

So which would you say he needs? One, the other, both?

Both. Or try Thropps b/c they are cheaper, can take two for higher proteases between meals. Sounds yeasty/fungal to me.

Is he taking CLO? I think the fats are very imp. with skin issues, try to aim for the ideal 1:1 ratio of omega 3's to omega 6's. The vegetable fats everyone says are healthy are not that great for this reason.

I wonder if he's getting die off from the yogurt.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So my friend up the street has lots of food allergy issues. Also her DS goes nuts when he gets any sugar/sweets at all. I recomended she try enzymes. She got the zyme prime while on vacation last week to try. She said that it made her and her mom feel hypoglycemic every time they took them. (she struggles with hypoglycemia). Any ideas on why that happened?

I wonder if it's not the issue that I had... a hyper feeling? This is due to the proteases if one does not go slow.

Or was it just a crash?

Hypoglycemia is definately related to diet composition. She needs to up her fats and the good fats like butter, unheated olive oil, blah, blah, etc. etc.









The DS going nuts with sugar is definately a gut flora thing.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Ok..I really am going to do my yogurt today. Is it true that If using raw goat milk, that I only need to heat it to 100 (and not 180), and this will preserve other good stuff in it? Then, I put it in the 100 degree oven for at least 24 hours. right? Will dumping it into the glass jars after heating it cool it off?

How'd it go?

You can warm the jars in hot tap water.

I like drinking my raw milk yogurt. I just had "regular" Stoneyfield yogurt tonight and it took too long to eat with a spoon









(it was also not tart enough, I remember the days when plain yogurt needed a ton of sugar to be palatable and now I almost don't like it! I need my tart fix.)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Ok, I drank WELL over a gallon of water today, just tonight was one it feels like. I am hoping for great things tomorrow.







:









Still have the most horrible taste in my mouth. Makes me think of the Atkins diet. And nursling DD really stinks.







It has to be my diet.

Am rereading MT's thread in vax. Hoping to apply some knowledge there!


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## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

HI All,

this is my first time here, after visiting the ND, I realize I really need to get back on my anti-candida diet.

I'm looking for a good cookbook which has yeast free, sugar free, wheat free recipes...any good ones out there?

suggestions?

Thanks!
Dominique


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:

I think rage issues are another side of the coin to PPD. When I read Amanda's info. I realized I had PPD.
Well I'm way past post partum (dd is 2.5) but of course it could still be there.

Did the enzymes help with ppd? If not, what did? I'm not big on taking drugs. I did take "happy pills" years ago but they made me feel not normal in a bad way.

I'm thinking of trying a braod spectrum enzyme since I can't pinpoint definitive symptoms (other than large floaty poops) and irrational moods.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
No the toxins she refers to are the byproducts by not digesting the protein fully.

I completely believe this is DS's issue. His meat intake went up, he couldn't digest it all fully. Presto, bacterial problems. He's always had sleeping issues so that's nothing new.

We are having some luck now. Second week of L. Reuteri cultured in yogurt and sometimes taking the capsules. Started Biocidin for his bacterial issues with a big noticable change in current sleeping problems.









Glad you're seeing improvement







Any suggestions on where to start figuring out how to fix sleeping issues in DD? I've tried the No-Cry Sleep Solution--it got better for a few weeks (almost "fixed" I thought) but then she regressed or something and we're right back where we started. I'm not doing anything differently.

How do I know if the toxins are something I need to worry about? I don't have hyperness issues--more the opposite. DD's sort of always been hyper, or at least super active, and I haven't seen any changes in that.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Hey all! Just giving an update. We have made raw goat yogurt and dccc out of it! We have made spagetti w/ the spagetti squash from the breaking the vicious cycle book, and last night with our dccc we had zuchinni lasanga. yum.

We had been gluten and casein free for about six or eight months before this, but the children would cheat with enzymes once a week or more. I thought the path of least resistance way to transition to the SCD and eliminate grains would be to add in cheese. So, far it has been working, w/o enzymes. They are so happy to be eating cheese. I hope this is the right direction to go with asd kids.







If I learn how to make cheese from raw goat, there will be a lot of vit A and nutrients in it, plus the probiotics. It's getting them to eat way more vegetables than they did before, because it is mixed in with the cheese. For those with asd kids who used to be gf/cf, how do you tell if they are handling the cheese well or not? One thing that swayed me the cheese way is the very high cost of almonds where I live, $10 a lb.

caedmyn-
we've btdt with the sleep troubles. Things that improved it was sleepytime tea, lullabies, gfcf diet, a bedtime routine....My dd drinks almond milk, and that has helped her sleep. Before the SCD, she had hersheys syrup in her almond milk with sprinkles of melatonin in it. I guess we will be going off of almond milk since it isn't allowed for six months on the scd. Which might be a problem for dd since that is part of her bedtime routine.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

oh are you talking about a 6 month old with sleep issues? Have you tried bach rescue remedy, calms, or teething tablets from hylands? I would think removing the offending foods from your diet, if you are nursing. & looking at environmental controls, like getting rid of mold, using air purifiers, etc. as some things to look at.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
oh are you talking about a 6 month old with sleep issues? Have you tried bach rescue remedy, calms, or teething tablets from hylands? I would think removing the offending foods from your diet, if you are nursing. & looking at environmental controls, like getting rid of mold, using air purifiers, etc. as some things to look at.

I've tried the teething tablets and haven't been too impressed...but then I don't really know if the problem was teething or just overall sleep issues. She's actually going to sleep okay at night but wakes up a couple of times a night (and she only woke up once a night even as a newborn so I really don't understand why she suddenly wakes up more often)...plus she takes short naps, around 30 minutes right at the moment, and it's a struggle to get her to take naps. I guess I can look at the calm stuff and see if that would help. Our house is only 6 years old so I wouldn't think mold would be an issue but who knows. We're moving to a brand new house in a different city the first of August so I guess I can see if it improves then









Are you sure almond milk isn't allowed on the SCD for 6 months? If almond butter is allowed pretty much right away I don't see why almond milk wouldn't be allowed.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

caedmyn, do you sling her? At least for naps? I remember have huge issues with getting DD1 to sleep for naps, but she was a bit older. I would sometimes spend more time getting her to sleep than she would nap.







: It was nuts. She seems to be a child that doesn't need that much sleep. She is now, at 4.5, _sometimes_ sleeping through the night. Thank goodness DD2 sleeps better. I couldn't take 2 nonsleepers!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn, I used to have to sleep or lie with ds for the entire nap for him to sleep more than 45 minutes, unless he was in his carseat and the car was moving. Even the sling didn't usually work unless I walked vigorously the whole time. I'm sure it's the yeast and sensory issues making so sensitive, though, now that I think about it, and that might have been what was making him such a bad napper. He still almost always wakes up after an hour and must nurse back to sleep -- both for naps and at night. At least most of the time, he will nurse back to sleep.

Here's a new problem: it would seem that ds's tummy has been bothering him for quite some time, but he didn't tell me until recently because he thought I knew. He says it hurts worse when he needs to poop, but that it hurts pretty much all the time. That it feels like something is poking at his belly. He does have diarrhea, too, which I've attributed to the raw and dried fruit he insists upon eating. Any ideas what to do? He's at least been eating less fruit, and eating more yogurt -- plain! The tummy ache on top of the nosebleeds has me feeling like either we've got to go back to the intro diet or move to some other diet, one that allows grains, at least for him.

Does anyone know the best form of vitamin E? Where to get it? Also, B vitamins? And minerals? SCD legal, of course.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

but he didn't tell me until recently because he thought I knew.
I tell ya! my children don't tell me things either. You almost have to be a mind reader, detective, or extremely prudent in every thing. They said they were afraid to go in their room because of spiders, but the furnace man found a leak that had leaked through our furnace, under a wall in the utility room to the girls room under a dresser, causing mold in their room. Then I say, "no wonder you didn't want to go in you're room" and THEN they tell me, yeah, it gave me a headache to go in my room. ARGH!!!! I've been scrubbing. I think maybe scrub the area another couple times. Dh put a new furnace filter in, one of those more expensive ones that are supposed to be better for allergies. The old filter was covered with mold, so...NO WONDER. We've had behavior, dark circles, the not sleeping....


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes I absolutely think all constipation is a gut flora issue and its likely that the senna is doing something to his flora as well, I don't know much about it though.

Have you tried magnesium? Natural Calm makes "Baby Calm" but I don't know how it's different. Mag. is fantastic for constipation.

Thank you!!! This is exactly what I've been looking for...I kept thinking I wanted to use Magnesium and knew about Natural Calm but didn't know they made one for babies. I'm ordering it now - woo!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Both. Or try Thropps b/c they are cheaper, can take two for higher proteases between meals. Sounds yeasty/fungal to me.

Is he taking CLO? I think the fats are very imp. with skin issues, try to aim for the ideal 1:1 ratio of omega 3's to omega 6's. The vegetable fats everyone says are healthy are not that great for this reason.

I wonder if he's getting die off from the yogurt.

Would the Thropps replace both or just Zyme Prime?

He is, I've been drumming into him the importance of CLO, so he has been fairly good about taking it. We use the Garden of Life one.

He's had this skin thing for most of his life, so I don't know. He does have 2 servings of the yogurt per day though and prefers it to store-bought







. He had some store-bought once recently and said "it tastes fake".









This may be a silly question, but is Magnesium good for men, too? I'm wondering if I should have him take a multi mineral (I use Bluebonnet) or just KAL dolomite. Or Thropps says it has trace minerals, too. Unlike me, his absorption is good, his stools sink, so I don't know that he even needs extra. But um, sometimes? Um...the toilet gets all clogged after he goes. And it isn't from toilet paper







So I was thinking magnesium. But! He does wait until the end of the day when he gets home to go. He refuses to use public toilets for such acts. So maybe that's really what it is and Mag isn't the issue at all.

Oh, and one more "me" question: like I said, I supplement with multi minerals. I have malabsorption which has me feel like I need to supplement. Am I just flushing money, or should I keep supplementing until absorption is achieved?

And are they ever going to sink??? I can get them fully formed but they still float!







:

Can you tell I feel comfortable talking here?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I keep getting too overwhelmed with life and not posting much here or focusing on much but getting by.

There is so much info here I don't know how to assimilate it all. Sometimes I just wanna quit, stick my head back under the sand, and be a neglecto mommy who leaves her sick kid to cio till she just gives up. Thankfully dh let me get a nap yesterday evening and that helped a ton. We're gonna try to night wean this weekend. I'm at a breaking point with lack of sleep and if this works it will be a huge change for all of us. DD is also getting her 2nd cst treatment tomorrow. The first one didn't seem to do much of anything but perhaps this one...

I think I keep cycling through new die off. I'll be fine for a few days and then constipated again. I'm not sure if it is that I get a respite or I go backwards. I hate to think I'm just killing off the same level of yeast over and over again.







Hopefully not. I'm just so frustrated and despite it not being a completely ideal time for me physically, I just wanna be pg again. I'm much healthier than I was when I got pg with dd. I don't want her to be too much older than her younger sibling esp since I plan to h/s. And I just wanna have another baby. (af is arriving today in case you can't tell) DD was conceived our first month ttc and we even stopped trying too early that month but got pg anyhow. This time it has been 10 months so far and nothin. The last two cycles have looked really good on paper and really gotten my hopes up. Sigh. And dh has decided that it is better to not care either way cause then you don't get disappointed so he just shrugs when I tell him af is on the way. He also thinks I'm putting too much effort into our diet stuff and that I should just trust that the research I have already done is enough. He doesn't get it that I keep learning new things that are helpful. (like I just increased my selinium after that post a couple of pages back)

Anyhow. I'm whiny and not very helpful feeling right now so I'll take my whiny butt out of here.

I did want to mention that thanks to scd I am now, for the first time in 5 years, wearing the same size I wore when I got married (5 years ago next week). I was pleasently surprised when I went to get a couple of new skirts today that I wore a size smaller than the one that I thought might be a bit too optomistic.







Two sizes smaller than when I got pg w/dd.


----------



## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've tried the teething tablets and haven't been too impressed...but then I don't really know if the problem was teething or just overall sleep issues. She's actually going to sleep okay at night but wakes up a couple of times a night (and she only woke up once a night even as a newborn so I really don't understand why she suddenly wakes up more often)...plus she takes short naps, around 30 minutes right at the moment, and it's a struggle to get her to take naps. I guess I can look at the calm stuff and see if that would help. Our house is only 6 years old so I wouldn't think mold would be an issue but who knows. We're moving to a brand new house in a different city the first of August so I guess I can see if it improves then









Are you sure almond milk isn't allowed on the SCD for 6 months? If almond butter is allowed pretty much right away I don't see why almond milk wouldn't be allowed.

Sounds like teething to me. my dd slept 6 hours the first few months but now (10months) only sleeps maybe 2 or 3 , since she is about 5 months old. Pretty sure it's teething. I wouldn't consider that to be a sleep issue.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

May I please ask a question? This is to anyone and everyone who has the time to answer







*How did you know that you/your children had some sort of yeast/bacteria/leaky gut problem?* Did you take a test? Were there certain symptoms you paid attention to? Did you just KNOW?

I'm pretty sure we have this problem (or at least me...hopefully I haven't messed 5 month ds up too much...) I'm already starting the SCD and I figure...well, even if it turns out we didn't have these problems...it's still a very healthy way to eat









Anyway...just wondering...how did you know? Because, I really would like to know for sure one way or another







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty. I totally hear you. I get sooo frustrated too. Dh and I have a pretty nonexistent marriage right now _because_ we're trying so damned hard to *fix* the girls. All my time (haha - I use that term loosely. What time?) is focused on trying to get to the bottom of these issues. And I'd LOVE to get some freakin sleep too one of these f*^^%&* days. It's hard not to get discouraged. I always do though. Dh is great about reminding me of "stinking thinking" and is really gifted in being able to turn my attitude around. (Thank goodness.)

Anyway, just wanted to lyk that you're surely not alone. I just post about it on other threads.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Patty,

The first few months on the candida diet was hell. I didn't take all the supplements I intended because I simply couldn't function well enough to remember. But, somehow, it helped anyway. I think the first rule should be not to over-obsess, but it's pretty much impossible not to because we all want to be better as quickly as possible.

I spent many years agonizing about when the next baby would come and, as it turns out, baby will come in his or her own time I suppose. We're still not really ready and I'm four years postpartum. Don't let that scare you, we've had a number of compounding issues. But the fact is that taking a few more months for yourself will only help when the next baby comes around.

Just try to get past these die-off phases. You will. Whoever established the rule of thumb that die-off would last two weeks or, at most, a month is probably related to the person who said that fatigue in pregancy disappears after the first trimester. It's rubbish. Life got tolerable for me after about two months and then improved measurable every couple of weeks.

And it's totally OK not to read or post on this thread until you are feeling better.

Amanda


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
May I please ask a question? This is to anyone and everyone who has the time to answer







*How did you know that you/your children had some sort of yeast/bacteria/leaky gut problem?*

I had signs of a systemic yeast infection, most notably shooting pains in my breasts when nursing. These symptoms appeared one year postpartum after a year of struggles with thrush.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
May I please ask a question? This is to anyone and everyone who has the time to answer







*How did you know that you/your children had some sort of yeast/bacteria/leaky gut problem?* Did you take a test? Were there certain symptoms you paid attention to? Did you just KNOW?

I'm pretty sure we have this problem (or at least me...hopefully I haven't messed 5 month ds up too much...) I'm already starting the SCD and I figure...well, even if it turns out we didn't have these problems...it's still a very healthy way to eat









Anyway...just wondering...how did you know? Because, I really would like to know for sure one way or another







:

I have known for years that I had systemic yeast.

DD started having nearly constant yeasty diaper rash starting at about 6 months old (1 month before we started solids.) When I realized that a year had gone by without it resolving despite various treatments for it, I began looking for some more answers and realized that she had systemic yeast as well. Not sure if she got it from me or because of the circumstances surrounding her birth or both.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
May I please ask a question? This is to anyone and everyone who has the time to answer







*How did you know that you/your children had some sort of yeast/bacteria/leaky gut problem?* Did you take a test? Were there certain symptoms you paid attention to? Did you just KNOW?

I'm pretty sure we have this problem (or at least me...hopefully I haven't messed 5 month ds up too much...) I'm already starting the SCD and I figure...well, even if it turns out we didn't have these problems...it's still a very healthy way to eat









Anyway...just wondering...how did you know? Because, I really would like to know for sure one way or another







:

Did you check out the Healing th Gut Cheat Sheet Sticky? It has a lot of great information about candida and studying stools, etc. Those can definitely tell you.

Oh, and to answer your question, I've had candida yeast before so I knew the signs in myself. And when DS spit into a glass while he was teething and chewing, he failed the spit test. Then there are the stools...malabsorption! So I knew that my being drawn to these threads had a good reason.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
And are they ever going to sink??? I can get them fully formed but they still float!







:

Are you taking a high protease between meals? It is my understanding that could help?


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Question for JaneS (or anyone else who knows the answer): when culturing L. reuteri, do you mix it with the other probiotics, or do it by itself?


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

I got Kefir grains today and was under the impression it would be good for me....am I wrong? You have to add sugar, the directions say. I thought on SCD we were trying to avoid sugar. Can I still make this? Help?


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Are you taking a high protease between meals? It is my understanding that could help?

Not yet but I am about to order some Peptizyde (unless someone knows a comparable less expensive one?). I worry a bit about the hyperness I've read so much about - not in myself, but in DS, as we're nursing.


----------



## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
I got Kefir grains today and was under the impression it would be good for me....am I wrong? You have to add sugar, the directions say. I thought on SCD we were trying to avoid sugar. Can I still make this? Help?

are you talking about water kefir grains? you have to add sugar with them yes....with dairy kefir grains you don't...because it consumes the sugar in the milk....


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

However, I don't believe that either water or milk kefir is SCD legal.


----------



## cobluegirl (Nov 20, 2001)

yeah i was kind of thinking that too....


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
However, I don't believe that either water or milk kefir is SCD legal.

Elaine did not say ILLEGAL but she said to use with caution, especially if yeast is a problem for you. Read here http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...e/kb/kefir.htm


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Are you sure almond milk isn't allowed on the SCD for 6 months? If almond butter is allowed pretty much right away I don't see why almond milk wouldn't be allowed.

Just checking pecanbread to see what I can try next, and read that nut butters and nut milk are both in Stage 2. But I would assume that you need to make your own milk, as commercial stuff has lots more in it than just almonds and water.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Mine are water kefir grains.

I just remembered someone told me I could make them like this, which would mean no sugar:
_The kefir is super easy. 1/2 grape juice 1/2 water only fill the bottle 2/3 or less full. Let it sit out for 12 or more hours in a warm place. Strain out the grains and make more kefir with them. Put the juice in the fridge and drink it or let it sit to build up fizz._

If no one sees a problem with that, I'll just do that. Now I just have to find some grape juice that's legal. I looked at Welch's (which is supposedly good) and it was from concentrate and had all kinds of not good stuff in it

Or maybe I could get some milk kefir grains and use goat's milk (I can have that...)
I don't think I have really strong symptoms of yeast, but suppose I shouldn't drink too much at first...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Took dd to her 2nd cst treatment today. I'm feeling much more hopeful! She was much more cooperative and she got a lot done. She thinks that she may not need to do as many sessions as she first thought. Also she gave me a stool test kit for dd. It will be $85 for them to test for yeast and bacteria. She didn't think that the whole comprehensive test was necessary for dd. She however does think it is a good idea for me so I think I'm gonna do that too. I've gotta get someone to order it. It is nice going to a naturopath who works with a Dr. She can get him to sign off on any tests she wants to run. My test will be $175. (just in case anyone is looking into this and wants to know prices) It is through Genova (used to be Great Smokies).

She also has a suppliment, only available to Dr's that she wants dd to take. She actually plans for me to take it and get it to her that way. I'll post more when I know more. She is supposed to e-mail me details tomorrow. I'm so excited and hopeful, finally. Of course she didn't nap today and that left me a little cranky.







: But typing this update has reminded me of why I was in a pretty good mood before that.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
*How did you know that you/your children had some sort of yeast/bacteria/leaky gut problem?* Did you take a test? Were there certain symptoms you paid attention to? Did you just KNOW?

I had IBS since getting a bunch of mercury fillings in my teeth and several rounds of antibiotics due to a root canal from hell. Gas, bloating, insomnia, anxiety.

More antibiotics including 2 weeks of Cipro due to incompentent GP. Symptoms got worse.

Thrush off and on while breastfeeding. DS red face at birth and very unsettled. He could not tolerate cereal as first food, reacted with full body eczema and a horrible diaper rash.

Did an Elmination Diet and symptoms got better so thought it was food allergies. Nope, symptoms came back. Roller coaster up and down. Till I started drinking raw milk kefir, that was a substantial change. SCD was even more fantastic.

As far as DS goes, his stools tend to be mushy and really stinky. He has sleeping problems similar to what I used to have, difficulty calming down. In the past, during certain bad times when his digestion was particularly bad we've had classic autistic symptoms such as hand flapping, toe walking and other sensory issues like needing deep pressure. Disappeared when gut got better. We've had stool tests done on him twice showing bacterial problems. And a hair test showing mineral problems and high metals.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Question for JaneS (or anyone else who knows the answer): when culturing L. reuteri, do you mix it with the other probiotics, or do it by itself?

I mix it with DS's regular yogurt culture right now b/c I want the consistency of it. Culturing Reuteri by itself produces a thin cultured milk, it won't gel.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm so excited and hopeful, finally. Of course she didn't nap today and that left me a little cranky.







: But typing this update has reminded me of why I was in a pretty good mood before that.









I'm so sorry but I have to giggle at this b/c it's just EXACTLY what I would say!!! I've so been there









Post about your new treatment when you know.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Our CST is causing a rollercoaster ride for dd2 this week. She's been up every 2 hours at night all week long. DD1 is back to constipated again and I (stupidly) tried brown rice without cooking it NT style and am in rough shape myself. It sucks.







: (At least I think it's the CST - - it could be any number of things that I still cannot figure out.

Ironically, I sent off for a stool test for dd1 last night. All she wants to eat this week is fruit. (Another sign of yeast right?)

I go back and forth between thinking dd1 is *worse* than dd2 and then the next day I'm more worried about dd2 than dd1. Thank God dd1 is a relatively good sleeper otherwise they'd have to put me away somewhere and I"m not kidding.

I'm sick of trying to fix everybody.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Our CST is causing a rollercoaster ride for dd2 this week. She's been up every 2 hours at night all week long. DD1 is back to constipated again and I (stupidly) tried brown rice without cooking it NT style and am in rough shape myself. It sucks.







: (At least I think it's the CST - - it could be any number of things that I still cannot figure out.

Ironically, I sent off for a stool test for dd1 last night. All she wants to eat this week is fruit. (Another sign of yeast right?)

I go back and forth between thinking dd1 is *worse* than dd2 and then the next day I'm more worried about dd2 than dd1. Thank God dd1 is a relatively good sleeper otherwise they'd have to put me away somewhere and I"m not kidding.

I'm sick of trying to fix everybody.











DD just woke up after being asleep for 1.5 hours. It is gonna be a long night. At least when she doesn't get a nap the initial going to sleep is quick and easy. (it is the couple of hours leading up to it that are hell)


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
_The kefir is super easy. 1/2 grape juice 1/2 water only fill the bottle 2/3 or less full. Let it sit out for 12 or more hours in a warm place. Strain out the grains and make more kefir with them. Put the juice in the fridge and drink it or let it sit to build up fizz._

I just posted on your other thread. But this proportion sounds fine. You can play with it a bit and see what works. You can also use any fruit juice, not just grape.

Quote:

Or maybe I could get some milk kefir grains and use goat's milk (I can have that...)
I posted about this too with moonshine's question -- is kefir SCD legal? My problem was candida and I actually found that both yogurt and kefir worked well for me but I did let my kefir stew until it was basically vinegar.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Has anyone found a pecan butter brand that is SCD legal? I need some _relief_ from all of this cooking and food prep!

Pattyla, I wanted to send you a







Baby steps, baby steps......


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I've been buying nut butters & other stuff here.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Is this a coincidence?

Well, I have only been doing SCD for about 4 days or so but for the last two nights ds (5 months) slept better! He slept four hours in a row, nursed, slept another four hours before waking every hour until morning. He did this two nights in a row! This is GOOOOOD! He never sleeps that long in a row!

Then yesterday I had two pieces of millet bread b/c I was worried about having too much die-off too quickly (don't know if that's what I was supposed to do....?) And last night he slept horribly! HORRIBLE! We are both exhausted.

Just seems like some people have been mentioning how their children are sleeping better or worse etc. Does this really effect how they sleep? Maybe it was just a coincidence, but those long four hour sleeps were nice







No more millet bread for me!


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## Spencersmom (Apr 16, 2005)

We're day 17 now. My ds had NOT been sleeping as well as usual in the first several days of this diet. Then we discovered Epsom salt. We have taken a 20 minute soak with 1 1/2 cups of Epsom salt in our bath for the last 4 nights, just before our bedtime routine. We are both sleeping like a rock. I feel great when I wake up but that goes away about noon time. Then I feel pretty crappy. I keep chalking it up to die off but who knows. Only time will tell I guess.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Next morning-DD is still not eating, I even tried mashed bananas, egg yolks, squash, even the NT recommended commercial formula. She doesn't want to eat. As for nursing, the sleep-nursing didn't work this time. She sucks once or twice then pushes away, and cries. Will see ped to rule out infections... I'll check the bf thread for nursing strikes... thanks for your help. I'm just a nervous wreck right now.

Update: It's been 6 days since DD hasn't been nursing. It turned out she has hand, foot and mouth disease (virus) and she has sores on her tongue and throat. Poor thing, it must have hurt her so bad to give it up... She is eating some solids now and water but still refuses to nurse. I think she already made the association between breast and pain, so I don't know if she'll go back to nursing when her mouth is healed. I hope my milk will come back if she does. I wasn't planning on weaning her at 1 yr.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Somebody was asking about vitamin E. There is something called Unique E. by A.C. Grace company. It's soy free. Most if not all other brands are made from soy and in soybean oil...


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Update: We drained the whey out of our yogurt and it was less tart. We use the same drained yogurt for both dccc and yogurt just fine except for dh reacted negatively.
Dh has migraine, diarrea, and intestinal pain...and thinks the yogurt is playing a role. Although it could be dieoff, correct?

I was thinking it is the starter he is reacting to, and not the yogurt. We used yogourmet. I needed to use a d-lactate free starter for ds anyway, and was going to try custom probiotics, but dh muscle tested that the custom probiotics starter wouldn't work for him but the progest would work for both of them. I don't know why this is, does anyone have ideas.

Is the pro gest starter a d-lactate free starter? What are all of the yogurt starter options? Does anyone have the link to the starter called pro jest or pro gest. I can't find it.

The lady that sells us our goat milk believes strongly in a product called threelac. Does anyone have experience with this product? Seems different than houstons enzymes in that it is three different strains of bacteria that feed on yeast.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Our CST is causing a rollercoaster ride for dd2 this week. She's been up every 2 hours at night all week long. DD1 is back to constipated again and I (stupidly) tried brown rice without cooking it NT style and am in rough shape myself. It sucks.







: (At least I think it's the CST - - it could be any number of things that I still cannot figure out.

Ironically, I sent off for a stool test for dd1 last night. All she wants to eat this week is fruit. (Another sign of yeast right?)

I go back and forth between thinking dd1 is *worse* than dd2 and then the next day I'm more worried about dd2 than dd1. Thank God dd1 is a relatively good sleeper otherwise they'd have to put me away somewhere and I"m not kidding.

I'm sick of trying to fix everybody.









I hear you!

DS cannot really tolerate any fruit well except bananas and cooked pears. I cannot even tell you how devasting that is in summertime. If something doesn't change fast on that front I'm going to be committed myself.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*









DD just woke up after being asleep for 1.5 hours. It is gonna be a long night. At least when she doesn't get a nap the initial going to sleep is quick and easy. (it is the couple of hours leading up to it that are hell)

It's really quite amazing how our babes are so similar. I know exactly how you feel, exactly. Hang in there.







.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
I posted about this too with moonshine's question -- is kefir SCD legal? My problem was candida and I actually found that both yogurt and kefir worked well for me but I did let my kefir stew until it was basically vinegar.

Kefir is sort of legal, link further up to info on BTVC site. Dairy needs to be cultured for 48hrs is my understanding.

Although that link says Sacc. Boulardii is illegal and it's not, Elaine changed her mind on this beneficial yeast due to studies with HIV/AIDS patients.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee*
Just seems like some people have been mentioning how their children are sleeping better or worse etc. Does this really effect how they sleep? Maybe it was just a coincidence, but those long four hour sleeps were nice







No more millet bread for me!









Absolutely and my experience was exactly the same. I had anxiety and insomnia and nightwaking coinciding with when digestive problems were the worst (and when I had thrush while bf'ing so I know positively it was all connected).

The explanations for this may be several:

-Neurotoxins excreted by bad bacteria/yeast.

-Nutritional deficiencies caused by inability to absorb or break down specific nutrients (b vits, magnesium, amino acids for ex. )

-Interference by both of the above with production of neurotransmitters in the gut that the brain runs off of. The gut manufacturers all of them for the brain.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Update: It's been 6 days since DD hasn't been nursing. It turned out she has hand, foot and mouth disease (virus) and she has sores on her tongue and throat. Poor thing, it must have hurt her so bad to give it up... She is eating some solids now and water but still refuses to nurse. I think she already made the association between breast and pain, so I don't know if she'll go back to nursing when her mouth is healed. I hope my milk will come back if she does. I wasn't planning on weaning her at 1 yr.









Wow, at least you figured it out, the poor bunny!!! Give her vit. A and C if you can. I'm sure your milk will come back and I hope she will be interested again when she's better, have you tried pumping?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Update: We drained the whey out of our yogurt and it was less tart. We use the same drained yogurt for both dccc and yogurt just fine except for dh reacted negatively.
Dh has migraine, diarrea, and intestinal pain...and thinks the yogurt is playing a role. Although it could be dieoff, correct?

I was thinking it is the starter he is reacting to, and not the yogurt. We used yogourmet. I needed to use a d-lactate free starter for ds anyway, and was going to try custom probiotics, but dh muscle tested that the custom probiotics starter wouldn't work for him but the progest would work for both of them. I don't know why this is, does anyone have ideas.

Is the pro gest starter a d-lactate free starter? What are all of the yogurt starter options? Does anyone have the link to the starter called pro jest or pro gest. I can't find it.

The lady that sells us our goat milk believes strongly in a product called threelac. Does anyone have experience with this product? Seems different than houstons enzymes in that it is three different strains of bacteria that feed on yeast.

Progurt is the dairy free starter:
http://www.giprohealth.com/Merchant2...y_Code=ProGurt

I have no clue what this d-lactate free thing is all about. What I had read is that the issue is the toxins from bad bacteria, not the good ones.

Threelac is an MLM and way expensive so that always made me wary of people saying they loved it. I just don't know what to think about it. It's over $1/packet with shipping and suggested beginning use is 5 packets a day for a month!









Quote:

Threelac
Ingredients: Spore Forming Lactic Acid Bacteria (Lactobacillus Sporogenes), Lemon Juice Powder, Refined Yeast Powder, Castor Oil, Spore Forming Bacteria (Bacillus Subtilis), Lactic Acid Bacteria (Streptococcus Faecalis).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

BB,

Yes intestinal problems with yogurt can indeed by die off. It's suggested that one goes very slowly, since one teaspoon can contain more probiotics than a store bought capsule.

Speaking of Threelac, VSL#3 is another one I don't know what to make of.
http://www.vsl3.com/VSL3/default.asp


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

So JaneS, are you going to be writing a book about this process? Because I'm thinking that like MT, with the amount of research you've done and what you've amassed, it wouldn't be a bad idea


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoever was mentioning that candida diet with fermented cabbage juice, could you please post link?

I was calling a cabbage juice slurpie in Allergies forum....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
So JaneS, are you going to be writing a book about this process? Because I'm thinking that like MT, with the amount of research you've done and what you've amassed, it wouldn't be a bad idea

















Thanks, maybe when my DS heals but that's not looking likely anytime soon. Until then, I don't know enough IMO.









Also many things like leaky gut and especially it's connection to bf'ing that is so theoretical at this point. Hard to claim a connection in print based on "gut feeling" and reading between the lines.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
So JaneS, are you going to be writing a book about this process? Because I'm thinking that like MT, with the amount of research you've done and what you've amassed, it wouldn't be a bad idea








I was thinking the exact same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also many things like leaky gut and especially it's connection to bf'ing that is so theoretical at this point. Hard to claim a connection in print based on "gut feeling" and reading between the lines.
True, but you could include this as a disclaimer up front and just not focus on the link to b'feeding. (For now anyway!) Maybe it'd spark some research in that area!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Whoever was mentioning that candida diet with fermented cabbage juice, could you please post link?

I was calling a cabbage juice slurpie in Allergies forum....









That was me...I can't post a link because the info is on a yahoo group. It's the candidasupport group. There is a ton of information in their files, though, on many different subjects. I can post the cabbage juice recipe, if you're interested, though.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane, do I remember you warning against grapefruit seed extract? Or was it olive leaf extract? I seem to remember you mentioning something about one of these.









I was thinking of getting some GSE for dd1.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I was thinking the exact same thing.

Except for the fact that I've just finished MT's incredible book and I'm nowhere near in her league!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I can post the cabbage juice recipe, if you're interested, though.

Yes please, can you post in this Allergies thread:
Probiotics for Allergies and Eczema
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=467776


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Also many things like leaky gut and especially it's connection to bf'ing that is so theoretical at this point. Hard to claim a connection in print based on "gut feeling" and reading between the lines.

I am not following ya' here. A link between breastfeeding and Having a leaky gut?? Or not breastfeeding?







What is your theory? I missed this detail!!

Thanks, Pat


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ance&n=3760901 This is the product recomended to me by the naturopath for me to take to benefit both me and dd through my bm.

It is available cheaper other places.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Ok, I'm still breastfeeding DD who is 2.5. If I start taking enzymes might she see a benefit from them? Or should she get her own? I worry about overload.

I believe we both have trouble digesting & absorbing food. My stools are floaters & hers are very soft with undigested bits.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

chlobo, she'll get some through bm but could benefit from them w/her solids as well. I give my nursling enzymes directly and she also gets some from me. (I focus mostly on her though and don't use them all the time myself.) The key is to go reeeally slowly and build up to tolerance.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Can someone post a link to the "SCD Chef..Let's share" thread. I cannot find it anywhere (w/o search). I'm looking to make the cashew butter bread that Jane posted









Oh, and an update on the cake we made for the wedding. So we made Jane's cashew butter cake....OMGoodness. It was delicious!! I also made the honey frosting. Now, all of us, including the 4 yr old sweetaholic, found the icing to be too sweet. I got a wicked headache and my 4 yr old started feeling nauseous. So I cannot recommend it...just too sweet. But the cake was awesome!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone know how often an EBF baby should poop? I've read that it's normal for them to go up to a week between poops but I don't know if that's really accurate. DD has always pooped at least once a day, but since I started this new diet she has been pooping less frequently, more like every other day, and often smaller poops, too. As far as I could tell she has normal poops before.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Can someone post a link to the "SCD Chef..Let's share" thread. I cannot find it anywhere (w/o search). I'm looking to make the cashew butter bread that Jane posted









Found it! It should be ready in 45min.

Good question on the EBF and pooping. I'm not sure. Why would an EBF babe get constipated anyway? Why would an EBF babe not have a bowel movement every day either???


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I always wondered that too. My ebf babies always pooped better when _I_ drank more water. My nursling still does, even though she's not ebf anymore.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Argh. The lack of the search function is driving me nuts.

I thought I just posted on a "Starting SCD" thread, but I can't find it. Anyone?


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: Nature Calm
*
Can't find it anywhere in Canada of course, but which do you think it the better product: Natural Calm or Calm Mama Formula ?

Also, I think the kids might need some to. How do I know for sure though. Just try it out and see if things improve for them? I'm very ingnorant of these issues.
If I do give the kids any (almost 4 and 2 years), should I just give the original Nature Calm (but with child-sized doses of course) or the Calm Kids Formula?

This purchase will be a one a long while type deal, because I'm sure the import surcharges will be quite pricey.

TIA all


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Never mind about finding that thread. I had it open in another browser tab









For anyone who's interested, the thread is here: *Support for Intro SCD diet! We need it!*

And the other thread requested: *SCD chefs...let's share!*


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Yep, I'm posting again in the June thread, even though it's obviously July. I'm much too shy to start the new thread.

So, ANYWAY, does anyone know a place in Canada that sells the *Freeda* line of supplements?

Digestive Wellness sells them, and while I might be able to find a different brand that is SCD friendly, if I can find this line in Canada, all the better.

Thank ya.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

What's the link for the July thread? I can't find the thread.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Does anyone know how often an EBF baby should poop? I've read that it's normal for them to go up to a week between poops but I don't know if that's really accurate. DD has always pooped at least once a day, but since I started this new diet she has been pooping less frequently, more like every other day, and often smaller poops, too. As far as I could tell she has normal poops before.

My DD used to poop once ot wtice a day, sometimes she would skip a day or two then resume.

Now, however, she is horribly constipated. She is refusing to nurse due to a virus than caused sores in her mouth (day 8). She only eats pureed vegetables, bananas, egg yolks, meat and yogurt. she only accepts water to drink but not enough. Besides the epsom salt bath is there anything I can do? Will prunes help? Although she doesn't like frutis and juices except for bananas. Or would upping her CLO help?
By constipation I mean -hard balls in her diaper after a day of nothing, she's whyney all day long but that's probably due to being sick. How can I make her drink more?

Also, when can I start enzymes? which ones and how strong? The problem is that except for the bananas, everything is cooked.
She is turning 1 tomorrow.
Would culturelle be appropriate at this age.
Since she just quit nursing, should I get the Natren Life Start thing?
I assume she gets enough acidophilus from yogurt.

I'm worried about her nutrition. She lost a ton of weight. She was almost ebf until 8 days ago so now that she went cold turkey with bf, I'm really worried. I try to give her a lot of butter with her meat and veggies. How many egg yolks would provide enough cholesterol? She eats 1-2 a day.

Please help!!!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just started the July thread.
See you over there.


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## Music-mommy (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
My DD used to poop once ot wtice a day, sometimes she would skip a day or two then resume.

Now, however, she is horribly constipated. She is refusing to nurse due to a virus than caused sores in her mouth (day 8). She only eats pureed vegetables, bananas, egg yolks, meat and yogurt. she only accepts water to drink but not enough. Besides the epsom salt bath is there anything I can do? Will prunes help? Although she doesn't like frutis and juices except for bananas. Or would upping her CLO help?
By constipation I mean -hard balls in her diaper after a day of nothing, she's whyney all day long but that's probably due to being sick. How can I make her drink more?

Also, when can I start enzymes? which ones and how strong? The problem is that except for the bananas, everything is cooked.
She is turning 1 tomorrow.
Would culturelle be appropriate at this age.
Since she just quit nursing, should I get the Natren Life Start thing?
I assume she gets enough acidophilus from yogurt.

I'm worried about her nutrition. She lost a ton of weight. She was almost ebf until 8 days ago so now that she went cold turkey with bf, I'm really worried. I try to give her a lot of butter with her meat and veggies. How many egg yolks would provide enough cholesterol? She eats 1-2 a day.

Please help!!!


Stop giving her bananas, they are constipating as is rice or rice cereal, or anything with iron in it. Ripe pear works really well, if you can get her to take some of that in some yogurt or something. Or I would get some Bio-k and give that to her. Store bought yogurt actually has a low amount of acidophilus, not enough really to do anything particularly if it's yogurt that is sweetened.

Blueberries are also good for constipation. Personally I would really really try to get her nursing again.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Music-mommy*
Stop giving her bananas, they are constipating as is rice or rice cereal, or anything with iron in it. Ripe pear works really well, if you can get her to take some of that in some yogurt or something. Or I would get some Bio-k and give that to her. Store bought yogurt actually has a low amount of acidophilus, not enough really to do anything particularly if it's yogurt that is sweetened.

Blueberries are also good for constipation. Personally I would really really try to get her nursing again.

I don't give her cereal or any grains. I make my own yogurt, it's not store-bought. She doesn't eat a lot of bananas, but I'll stop it if it helps. She ate some prunes-apples with the yogurt. I'm trying to get her nurse all the time. What is Bio-K?


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