# "Its ok to let your baby cry for 2 to 6 hours..."



## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Is anyone watching Dr Phil right now? (probably not) They are talkijng about a family who wants to let the baby CIO, but the mom doesnt want to. They dad just stated that their ped says its ok to let them cry for 2 to 6 hours!! Can you imagine? How cruel! Of course Dr. Phil doesnt agree with co-sleeping, so he hooked them up with "the sleep lady". Its sooo sad! I am very greatful that my usband is onboard with cosleeping for the most part. When ds has a rough night, dh will complain that we just need to let him CIO, but he knows that is NOT an option!!

I dont know if I can watch Dr. Phil anymore... (i go on strike several times per year







)


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## mykdsmomy (Oct 10, 2004)

I saw the preview for that show yesterday and plan on watching it today...I think it's on at 4 here....i'll post after I watch it but I already know i'm going to be screaming at the TV! I used to like dr phil now I think he's a big weenie!!!!!


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

I only saw the last ten minutes or so (decided to watch a movie instead...) and I'm kind of glad I only saw that part. I'm pregnant and stupid show topics like this get my blood pressure up too much.









It was sad though. You could totally tell that the last mom didn't really have her heart in the whole sleep lady method, and I was so mad when Dr. Phil chastized her for "giving in." It makes me so crazy that people are in such a hurry for their babies to be independant at night. Gah.


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

I can't imagine the stress iinvolved in crying for two to six hours. I don't think anyone tries to see it from the child's perspective.

I am watching that show right now. Dr. Phil and I do not see eyeto eye when it comes to parenting. He did have Sears on once, but if I remember right it was not a very in depth conversation.

I wish there were a Dr. Sears show!


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

Yep, just watched it! I thought I was hearing things when he said 2-6 hours!! That's just insane. I couldn't even stand to hear my baby cry for 5 minutes at that age, but hours?!?!







:

The sleep lady wasn't too bad with her method (it's much like Dr. Jay's), but I disagree that you can do that with a 6 month-old, especially if he or she is bf'd. Her sleep training could be a little more gentle, but I think it's WAY better than CIO.

I'm glad that Dr. Phil himself did not advocate for or against CIO, though. He emphasized that consistency and both parent's agreeing were most important. I think that's a decent message to put out.


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## JoyfulBirther (Mar 29, 2006)

I had to turn it off. I find it so disturbing it makes me cry. The video footage of that little one. It makes me so angry. You wouldn't let a friend or an family member cry for 2-6 hours without trying to help, why do that to a child? People can be so brutal.


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## momtoNatalee (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm glad I didn't see it. That makes me want to throw up!!!!


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## applecider (Jul 16, 2005)

Ok, I'm watching it now and it makes me feel sick watching that poor baby cry and his mother is sitting right there!


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## Guest* (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cody'smomma*
Ok, I'm watching it now and it makes me feel sick watching that poor baby cry and his mother is sitting right there!









I know! I just wanted to shake the parents and say "Pick up your BABY." He's such a little thing. Sad.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SugarAndSun*
I can't imagine the stress iinvolved in crying for two to six hours. I don't think anyone tries to see it from the child's perspective.

I was just talking to my mom about that, saying how the parents can get through it by closing doors, playing music or tv etc, they come out fine. But the poor baby, how must that make them feel!!! I would imagine it to be very traumatic for ANYONE!!!

When he started about the consistancy thing, i was thinking, "yeah, i'm consistant, hes in my bed every night!!! Earlier in the show he'd stated that he doesnt agree with cosleeping, the family on earlier in the episode, the dad pitched a tent on the roof b/c the mom kept the babies in their bed for the first several months. Dr Phil said thats ok that she cosleeps even though he doesnt personal think its the best thing, but he did tell the dad to lighten up on the mom since they new baby is only 3 MONTHS OLD!!!!!

I cant listen to parenting advice from people like that, its like i mostly watch it for shock value... i gotta find something better to do!!!


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## mykdsmomy (Oct 10, 2004)

WTH was that little bubble over the baby's head "Victory" ??? ARe they seriously saying this baby is so manipulative that he can actually think "oh, if i scream long enough, I can manipulatve my parents to pick me up???"
Im so irritated with Dr. Phil and these husbands who want all the babies out of the bed but arent willing to help out at all! And what was that comment about dr phil saying he doesnt agree with kids sleeping in the parents bed? OF COURSE the sleep program worked.....It would have "worked" if they let the baby cio because eventually he would get the message that his parents abandoned him and he was on his own!!!!!!! I'm so ANGRY at this show!!!


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## Warda_Rose (Mar 1, 2006)

What is Dr Phil a doctor of?


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## Summerland (Aug 9, 2005)

I saw this show earlier, I cant believe anyone thinks it's ok for a baby to cry for 2-6 hours! If they are so desperate to get more sleep, just let the baby sleep in their bed and im sure they would get plently.
That dad on the roof is nuts the baby is still a newborn what does he expect from his wife.


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

I despise Dr. Phil.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mykdsmomy*
WTH was that little bubble over the baby's head "Victory" ???

I noticed that too, UUUGGGHHH!


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Warda_Rose*
What is Dr Phil a doctor of?











Counseling Oprah so well during her beef trial in Texas that she now produces a show for him!


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## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

My BIL couldnt understand how we could possibly have the baby in bed with us and why on earth would we do that and I just pointed out to him that,

"Mathew, you let your dog sleep with you."









"Oh." he said.

(I dont understand. why didnt he just let his dog CIO?!?!?)

I agree SOOOOOOOO much with Sugaransun......

When do we get to have a Dr Sears show???!!!?!?


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## yogachick79 (Apr 4, 2006)

I was going to post and ask how that turned out, but I guess now I know. Ironically I was nursing DS to sleep in bed while watching and fell asleep myself







.

I CANNOT imagine letting ANYONE cry for 2-6 hours. Seriously, are they on crack. Wow, crazy how I am actually getting more and more angry as I am typing this. And we let DS CIO for a few months because of pressure from MIL (posted before about that) and my max time limit for letting him cry was 15-20 minutes and that seemed like h3ll. OKay, I am trying to calm down but I am really glad that I didn't watch the end of the show.

Sometimes he is right on the money, but a lot of what he says makes no sense at all.







:


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

I was so sad for that little baby.


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## cuddlebug (Jun 29, 2005)

Back when my son was little, I took him to the doctor and they gave me a print out just to tell you things about babies at that age, and it said that it is normal for a baby to cry on average of 6 hours a day. I remember thinking that that was rediculus, and I can't imagine my baby crying anywhere near that.
I did not watch this show, as I don't watch TV, but I have seen one before where they had Dr. Sears (the son) on, and I was so disapointed. He was only on for a tiny bit, and He didn't get to talk much. I am not a fan of Dr. Phil, ever since I saw one where a mom was letting her kids sleep with her, and the boyfriend brought her on a Dr. Phil told her it wasn't healthy for the children and was very unhealthy for her relationship, because it ruins your sex life.







: I just think it is too bad that he has a show, and so many people thinkeverything he says is right and the way to do it.


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## nancyw (Jul 8, 2005)

"If you stand your ground you will eventually extinguish the behavior" ...Dr. Phil

crying is not a 'behavior.' (especially in a little tiny baby like that.)

go back to school dr. phil. or ask for your money back.


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nancyw*
"If you stand your ground you will eventually extinguish the behavior" ...Dr. Phil

crying is not a 'behavior.' (especially in a little tiny baby like that.)

go back to school dr. phil. or ask for your money back.

EXACTLY! I will have my Psych degree in 2 weeks and it infuriates me when someone applies behavioral conditioning techniques so inappropriately. These sort of conditioning techniques are meant to be used in cases of self injurious behavior, maladaptive behavior, etc. NOT ON COMPLETELY NORMAL BEHAVIOR. He needs to go back and take a few classes on developmental and cognitive psych. Sadly, many highly trained people take these techniques out of context and view a baby wanting to be with its mama at night as "maladaptive" and something that has to be "trained" out of them. They need to adjust their unrealistic expectations and think about the needs (emotional, not just physical) of the child, not just what is most convenient for the parents.

And how in the world would Dr. Phil know anything about how sleep training negatively affects breastfeeding? His wife didn't BF at all because she "wasn't comfortable with that". Yet he doesn't try to condition her out of that...


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## Khadijah (Jul 19, 2005)

I saw it yesterday. I almost had to turn my tv off. How can you let your little one cry like that. The mom wanted to go get the baby and the husband was complaining he wasent getting enough sleep. Then later on she said it was getting better doing what the sleep lady said. I cant imagine letting my baby cry that long. I would never do it. When Adam crys in the morning because he is woke up. Im straight in there no later t han 2secs to pick him up. Dr.Phill disappoints me. And I feel sorry for that baby.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Yes, the show was absolutely maddening. I hated Dr Phil's veiled comments about how he doesn't agree with co-sleeping - though on the previous show about co-sleeping (the one that had Dr Sears on it) Dr Phil did make a great comment to the psychologist who was claiming that co-sleeping damages kids psychologically - Dr Phil did point out that the vast majority of the world co-sleeps with their babies, and the psychologist had to agree with him, thereby totally undermining his own argument.

I asked my dh this morning "how many times have you woken up when I nurse ds2 in the middle of the night?" (d2 is 5 months old)

His answer - "none".

For all the fathers who claim that CIO is the only way to get some sleep, they need to know that co-sleeping, at least for our family, is the only way for us to get decent sleep!

That poor baby and mama. I kept thinking, the ONLY reason why they are being put through this is because of this bizarre belief that babies sleep in cribs (and of course, eat formula from bottles, and sit in strollers, etc. etc.).

When our au pair from South Africa arrived to live with us, she was so relieved when I told her that ds1 (then 5 months old) slept with us. She said "I had heard that all american babies sleep in cribs. We don't know why you do that. Isn't it just easier for them to sleep with you?"

Siobhan


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## Warda_Rose (Mar 1, 2006)

Wait a minute! I'm just getting this. A baby "typically" cries a total of 2-6 hours a day? Really? I'm on number five and unless they are sick they've never reached 2 hours of crying. Fussing, yes. But not full blown-crying for hours on end. Maybe because they are usually in someone's arms most of the time.
Poor babies.


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## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveChild421*
EXACTLY! I will have my Psych degree in 2 weeks and it infuriates me when someone applies behavioral conditioning techniques so inappropriately. These sort of conditioning techniques are meant to be used in cases of self injurious behavior, maladaptive behavior, etc. NOT ON COMPLETELY NORMAL BEHAVIOR. He needs to go back and take a few classes on developmental and cognitive psych. Sadly, many highly trained people take these techniques out of context and view a baby wanting to be with its mama at night as "maladaptive" and something that has to be "trained" out of them. They need to adjust their unrealistic expectations and think about the needs (emotional, not just physical) of the child, not just what is most convenient for the parents.

this is great - i'd love to hear more of what you have to say about this!

i've been struggling with the fact that EC involves in part conditioning your baby to be used to eliminating in a potty rather than being conditioned to eliminate in diapers. so then i start thinking well, if i'm ok with conditioning my baby to pee appropriately, why not to sleep in a certain way? one major difference of course, is that crying is not part of the conditioning for EC! also there's the advantage that diaper-conditioning isn't very natural either, so it feels more like you're facilitating the natural way rather than training them away from their instincts.

but i still think whatever we do with our babies around sleep is "training" them - some people train their babies to not ask for help because the parents aren't going to come. some people train their babies to ask for help because if the baby asks they get a super-nice snuggle and nursing. i think either way you've conditioned the baby to expect something... i'd just prefer to err on the side of conditioning the baby to expect to be happy


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna*
i'd just prefer to err on the side of conditioning the baby to expect to be happy









Right on


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Warda_Rose*
What is Dr Phil a doctor of?

I know he worked as a medical doctor (can't remember if it was pediatrics or family practice) but then he decided he want to counseling. I am not sure if he has his doctorate in that.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candipooh*
I know he worked as a medical doctor (can't remember if it was pediatrics or family practice) but then he decided he want to counseling. I am not sure if he has his doctorate in that.

Dr. Phil has a B.A., M.A. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from North Texas State University with a dual area of emphasis in clinical and behavioral medicine. He is a licensed clinical psychologist in the great state of Texas. (from drphil.com)
HTH


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## merrybee (May 18, 2002)

Poor baby! Shame on Dr. Phil!


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang*
Dr. Phil has a B.A., M.A. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from North Texas State University with a dual area of emphasis in clinical and behavioral medicine. He is a licensed clinical psychologist in the great state of Texas. (from drphil.com)
HTH

He went to the same university that my parents and I graduated from. We're all super AP though... and I hate Dr. Phil!


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## MammaKoz (Dec 9, 2003)

Quote:

They dad just stated that their ped says its ok to let them cry for 2 to 6 hours!!































WT







? I didn't see the episode, thank goodness.

I just don't get it. I mean...holy crap I am so freakin' upset that I don't even know what to say/type. I saw first hand what 1.5 hours of CIO (by my MIL for those that don't know the whole story) twice a week for a few weeks did to my DS, I CAN NOT even imagine what the damage will be to a baby whose parents follow that advice from a blurbie about a ped that says 2-6 hours of CIO is okay, that they saw mentioned on Dr. Phil. Not to mention Dr. Phils parenting advice. *sigh*

I can't help it, I'm writing him a letter (not that it will probably do any good) and I am posting my story (that I posted here at MDC last weekend) on his chat board (hopefully that will get through to a few people), and a million and one links if I can that defy CIO. Dr. Phil is gonna get a taste of mad MammaKoz...


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang*
When our au pair from South Africa arrived to live with us, she was so relieved when I told her that ds1 (then 5 months old) slept with us. She said "I had heard that all american babies sleep in cribs. We don't know why you do that. Isn't it just easier for them to sleep with you?"

I think many other cultures have it figured out as far as taking care of babies. I recieved a compliment on my sling from an African guy who was stocking shelves at the grocery store. He said that was the way they do it in Africa! Sometimes I wish I didnt live in this great land of USA, we are blessed in so many ways, but our 'culture' could sure use some help.


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## jkds2005 (Mar 24, 2006)

My ds2 was having a lot of crying issues that I didn't know how to handle (wasn't really aware of AP)...we were at the doc for his 6mo check (1 month late, so he was 7mo) and i mentioned the crying and the seeming unhappy all the time....and he told me he was just being manipulative. I said..oh...ok...then came home and did research and found that ds2 fits EVERY characteristic that Dr Sears identifies as High Needs. Makes me so sad to think that I did the cio method a couple of times and it hurts my heart to think of how my little one must've been feeling







Even though he is my 2nd, my first was always very happy...and looking back on it - I was a lot more AP without realizing it with my 1st....anyway....needless to say i've changed my ways and am being as much AP as I possibly can (dh doesn't allow co-sleeping....but i dunno how much longer we'll be married anyway)


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## momtoNatalee (Nov 20, 2005)

Last night dh and I were up w/ dd from about 1am-4am (the usual) and we were just holding her and trying to sooth her. Dh and I started talking he said "I cannot believe that there is actually people out there who would ignore and let baby CIO." So I told him what I heard about Dr. Phil's advice and ..... I don't know if I am allowed to say this but he got really angry about that and said "Dr. Phil should be s*o*" I hope I don't get in trouble-but just wanted to share how much dh is against CIO.

Also my dh would normally never say anything like that!


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## Synchro246 (Aug 8, 2005)

How come pediatricians don't seem to be aware of the fact that babies in cultures where the babies are bf "on demand" and worn in a sling all day DON'T GENERALLY CRY. Parents in such cultures don't expect their babies to cry. Colic is unheard of. Hmmmm- why is it that in our culture we think crying is normal and even OK?

This is frustrating.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jkds2005*
(dh doesn't allow co-sleeping....but i dunno how much longer we'll be married anyway)

You dont seem to be joking







I hope you can work through what you're going through. I know marriage is tough, but good luck.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think it's OK to let the baby cry for 2-6 *minutes* while you go to the bathroom, wolf down some food, or otherwise tend to your own needs so that you can better take care of the baby- and even then only if there's nobody else available to stay with the baby while you care for yourself.

Alternatively, baby crying for 2-6 hours combined during his or her entire first year of life isn't too bad. But 2 hours in a row? That's child neglect!!


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## dachshundqueen (Dec 17, 2004)

x


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

It never ceases to amaze me that self-proclaimed "child advocates" such as Dr. Phil and Oprah don't seem to care a lick how babies start out in the world.

However, I do realize that asking Dr. Phil to endorse bf, co-sleeping, non-vaxing, no matter how beneficial to babies based on SCIENCE, would be asking him to dis his wife's decisions for their two boys. Not going to happen.


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## lovesprout (Apr 30, 2005)

I've lost all respect for Dr. Phill!


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

ITA with the sentiments about Dr. Phil, he really







: me too. It's ludicrous to allow a baby to cry like that and IMO child abuse.

I have to ask that we refrain from actual namecalling ex/ 'is a jerk' rather than ' is acting like a jerk' Namecalling, no matter how well intentioned, goes against the UA of MDC, even if it is Dr Phil







:







:







:


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

At the playground the other day I was swapping jetlag woes with another (well let's call her a 'mother').

After three nights of him not going to sleep until five, the next night they shut the door at ten and opened it again at seven.

He. cried. all. night.

ALL NIGHT

ALL NIGHT, and he was jetlagged, and not even tired!


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)




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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe*
At the playground the other day I was swapping jetlag woes with another (well let's call her a 'mother').

After three nights of him not going to sleep until five, the next night they shut the door at ten and opened it again at seven.

He. cried. all. night.

ALL NIGHT

ALL NIGHT, and he was jetlagged, and not even tired!

I can not even imagine what that would make me feel like to listen to my baby cry for that long, let alone how he would feel to be the one so miserable for sooo long!
Thats wrong.

I was just telling my husband yesterday how its just not right to let a baby cry!! When i was about 9 my parents tried CIO with my little brother (with some patting and reassuring) and I just did not understand. There was no other time in my life that my brothers didnt have their little needs met and and I didnt understand why this was any different. i would lay in my bed and cry for him!! My mother bf on demand so they rarely cried and i just couldnt stand it, and still cant to this day.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mezzaluna*
this is great - i'd love to hear more of what you have to say about this!

i've been struggling with the fact that EC involves in part conditioning your baby to be used to eliminating in a potty rather than being conditioned to eliminate in diapers. so then i start thinking well, if i'm ok with conditioning my baby to pee appropriately, why not to sleep in a certain way? one major difference of course, is that crying is not part of the conditioning for EC! also there's the advantage that diaper-conditioning isn't very natural either, so it feels more like you're facilitating the natural way rather than training them away from their instincts.

aww you know it is different. it is not like you sit your baby on the potty for 2 to 6 hours and let them cry until they use it.

you are doing a wonderful thing for your child.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

As a Muslim, I was extra ashamed to see that couple, because Islam really promotes gentle, AP-type parenting (breastfeeding until 2 years; Prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, never hit his own children, and other examples of gentle parenting abound in our tradition.) Two to six hours? That's what you get when you trust a pediatrician for parenting advice. I like my daughter's pediatrician but I will drop her like a hot potato if she ever recommends CIO.


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