# When a Child is Unhappy in Your Home



## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

DS (5.5) has been talking a lot lately about wanting a new home, buying a bigger house, etc. He asked yesterday how many days until he's a grown-up, and I thought it was a perfectly normal question until he said it was because he didn't want to live in our house anymore.

Today we sat down and talked about it, and he said that our house is always messy and that he wants it to be "this is what we do today, so we do it" with a little hand gesture mainly meaning he wants more structure and consistency.

I know that he craves a clean home. I don't mean "not messy," but deep clean. I've caught him a few times recently with a spray bottle and sponge wiping down baseboards, the bathroom tiles, etc. He asks for latex gloves to clean up (on his own, not when we're trying to get him to clean).

He said our house has too much going on and that his house won't be that way. He's not saying this out of anger or manipulation. I truly believe that's what he feels.

Has anyone dealt with this? What did you do? I know things could be better, and I *want* them to be, but I don't think we'll ever be as structured/clean/consistent as DS wants, and I don't want him to grow up thinking his childhood was miserable because of it.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Does he have OCD? I am assuming your house is not super dirty, but even if it were, I don't think most children would react this way. Also, is there someone in his life that could be giving him these ideas? He sounds a bit drastic.

I am not sure what I would do. (((((hugs)))) wish I could have helped more.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm wondering if maybe he has OCD too.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

No experience here either, although I can definitely see my son saying the same thing in the future, as I'm not the best housekeeper in the world. I say, take him up on it.

Ask him if he'd feel better if he helped keep the house clean, then give him specific chores to do (try to give him the things that bother him the most, like if he hates dirty windows, let him clean them, or if it's the piles of dirty laundry everywhere, have him sort it and bring it to the laundry room). Does he have his own space? Like even just his own shelf or basket for his stuff somewhere that he knows there will only be his things in there? That might help him feel more in control.


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## cparkly (Jul 21, 2009)

I was like your son, as a child. My son is similar. I think that what your son is asking for is very age-appropriate. According to the Montessori way, he may very well just be in the sensitive period for order.

My mom is a wonderful mother. She is very, very creative. With that creativity came a lot of "stuff"; supplies, etc...She is a wonderful cook, but not a neat cook. Our home was very loving. It was also very disorganized. That really bothered me.

My parents learned to respect my love of order. They provided me with tools to keep my little life organized. I had my own non-toxic cleaning kit (as does my son). I needed that control over my surroundings at home. I took over my own laundry at around 8 and then the household laundry, too.

I enjoyed helping and making our home tidy and organized. I am that way as an adult.

I am easily overwhelmed by what feels like chaos to me, in my friends' homes. They are not unclean homes, just different than I could handle all the time. I keep a very simple, almost spartan home. It is comforting to me.

He loves you. Perhaps just continue to give him the tools and autonomy that he needs.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

That does sound a touch OCD to me, but I get it. I was brought up in a home that was messy and dirty to the point of squalidness. We had a large family, most of us crafted (so the house was always COVERED in bits of fabric, thread, paper, glitter, scissors and glue...), we homeschooled (which tends to breed "stuff" - books, projects, stationery), and none of us were really "into" cleaning. Mum occasionally instituted plans for cleaning schedules, but they always fells through.

And it was embarrassing. I took over a lot of the kitchen cleaning and cooking, but that only made me mad when I'd cleaned a bench and it was covered with junk again two minutes later.







We didn't often have visitors, and when my best friend came to visit she used to sweep the kitchen floor because she couldn't stand the bits of smeg everywhere. I was looked after at someone else's house once and told to vacuum, and the woman berated me because I didn't know how to vacuum "properly". I'd never been taught.

Honestly, when I got married one of the things I most looked forward to was moving out! I LOVED having my own space. I'm not a clean freak by any means, but I do wipe out the cutlery drawer before it gets filled up with bits... Whenever I go back home I step gingerly and try not to think about the food.

Now, I'm not saying your house is like this (or that it isn't - Mum certainly seems oblivious to the real state of things and she's a very intelligent woman, so I think some people just can't "see" the mess - I'm still working on it, myself)... but living in a house that seems squalid or dingy _is_ just plain depressing. We've lived in 3 houses since we got married, and the last one, even when it _was_ clean, always looked kind of grubby. It was just old. Compared to new houses, which in NZ tend to be kind of minimalist with very clean lines, it was just inherently dingy.

So: is your house older/not as minimalist-looking as DS's friend's houses or whatever? Does he go to a kindy/school with very neat storage boxes and a clean-up time every day? Could this be his way of asking for his own room? If he has his own room already, could you fix it up with a new coat of paint and some primary-coloured storage boxes, or something? Would he like to help you declutter a bunch of stuff into a trash bag (and no matter how simple your lifestyle, there's ALWAYS enough stuff to fill a trash bag!) for donating or the tip? Has he been seeing lots of fancy/unrealistically tidy/really expensive houses in magazines, on TV or wherever?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

How is the house? Does it need cleaning?


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## 3belles (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, has he gone to visit someone with a BRAND NEW house that may seem particularly neat? It may look nice to him, and speak to his age's natural need for order.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm wondering if he's worked alongside you or others and has picked up on all this, or if it seems to come out of nowhere.

For the wanting a different house bit, I'm not sure it means deep unhappiness (but you would have a better read on it of course). I think it is something kids go through at certain stages when they are classifying the world outside the home with peers and things. I'm not sure I'd've questioned him too much...it's good to know, but it also might be a good time to help him remember the things he does like.

On a practical level does he have his own room? You could work with him to create an oasis in there.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I'd ask a friend for an honest impartial opinion on the state of my house.


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

I was this way as a child as well. Not OCD. I just really crave structure and routine and organization/cleanliness.

My mom did keep her house up to her standard of clean. Which was just different from my definition of clean. And we still have different definitions of clean & organized. She keeps stuff because she might use it one day. I get rid of stuff and really dislike clutter. My dad is just a plain ole mess. My 2 siblings are also by nature very messy.

Does your son have his own room?

I ask because it was HUGE for me when I got my own room at age 13. It changed my life. Prior to that I was stuck with my messy sister. It really made me quite unhappy to live in that environment with NO space that I could keep neat and clean and organized.

I would say he definitely needs at least one part of the house that he can keep as neat and organized as he likes. It's probably just part of his personality and he will always be this way. I don't think it means he is seriously unhappy, but it probably genuinely bothers him and he probably WILL be very happy to have his own place one day. I totally get it. BTDT.

I also did not come from a very structured kind of family. There was not an exact routine to every day or every week. As I got older, I made my own routine as much as possible, but your son is a little young for that. So it might be really helpful to him if you assist him with that. Some kids just really really need it. Good luck OP, I am sure you are a great mom with a wonderful kid who just needs a little bit more structure.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
I was looked after at someone else's house once and told to vacuum, and the woman berated me because I didn't know how to vacuum "properly".


A smidge off topic, but I have to ask..... There's a proper way to vacuum?!?!?!


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 
Does he have OCD?

I don't know. When I think of OCD, and this may be off-base, I think of someone who has trouble functioning because of the need for order & cleanliness (or religious ritual or whatever their particular compulsion). I don't think he's that bad, but I don't have any real experience with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cparkly* 
My mom is a wonderful mother. She is very, very creative. With that creativity came a lot of "stuff"; supplies, etc...She is a wonderful cook, but not a neat cook. Our home was very loving. It was also very disorganized. That really bothered me.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
We had a large family, most of us crafted (so the house was always COVERED in bits of fabric, thread, paper, glitter, scissors and glue...), we homeschooled (which tends to breed "stuff" - books, projects, stationery), and none of us were really "into" cleaning. Mum occasionally instituted plans for cleaning schedules, but they always fells through.

These descriptions both sound like our house.







I'm a writer, and I also do hobby art. We're always organizing some event or another, so there are usually piles of paper and "project" messes everywhere. We do try to keep the bathroom & kitchen cleaned daily, but we just have lots of little bits of "stuff" lying around.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
So: is your house older/not as minimalist-looking as DS's friend's houses or whatever? Does he go to a kindy/school with very neat storage boxes and a clean-up time every day?

He absolutely loved preschool. It surprised me because he's pretty intense, and I'd worried about him. One of the reasons was the shelves with a little box for everything. He was very impressed with that! And he liked that his teacher did the same thing everyday. Even the few times he got moved to yellow light for doing something, he said, "I broke a rule. That's what happens" in an almost Zen way like it somehow made him comfortable that rule breaking = yellow light, no matter what. We definitely are *not* like that, and I don't know that I could achieve that level of consistency.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
Could this be his way of asking for his own room? If he has his own room already, could you fix it up with a new coat of paint and some primary-coloured storage boxes, or something?

He does share a room with his sister, who is a little like Linus. If something can be made into a mess, she finds the way to do it! We have a downstairs den that is unused. DH asked him tonight if he thought converting that to his bedroom would work, but he said "no, it's too messy down there." (Since it's unused, it's becoming a dumping ground/storage area. Yeah, now that I'm writing all of this out, maybe our house is that bad.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I'm wondering if he's worked alongside you or others and has picked up on all this, or if it seems to come out of nowhere.

For the wanting a different house bit, I'm not sure it means deep unhappiness (but you would have a better read on it of course). I think it is something kids go through at certain stages when they are classifying the world outside the home with peers and things. I'm not sure I'd've questioned him too much...it's good to know, but it also might be a good time to help him remember the things he does like.

Sunday is our cleaning day, and let me tell you, he hops out of bed quickly. Seriously, he's a bit of a dictator about cleaning day, but I definitely don't wipe baseboards and those things. That's all him - because he "saw some dirt."

He's been saying these things for a while, which is why I questioned him. Over the past 2 weeks or so, they've become more frequent. He spent last week at my ILs house, and MIL is much cleaner/more structured/organized than I am. We got back late Sunday night, and this week, it's been an almost constant stream of chatter about the house.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmom* 
I would say he definitely needs at least one part of the house that he can keep as neat and organized as he likes. It's probably just part of his personality and he will always be this way. I don't think it means he is seriously unhappy, but it probably genuinely bothers him and he probably WILL be very happy to have his own place one day. I totally get it. BTDT.

In reading through everyone's responses, I'm thinking that maybe 1) our house does need major work and 2) he needs his "space." He doesn't have that. He sometimes goes to his room and shuts his door, but he does not have any space that is sacred for him.

-- In talking about this more with DH tonight, I thought of a few issues that probably are affecting our lives. First, I'm a bit of a hoarder. It's something I'm working really, really hard on, and we've been trying to go through everything. We're in the middle of a major purge right now, but I know that I tend to save, save, save. It drives DH a little batty, but he copes.

When I was growing up, I was responsible for younger cousins (we all lived with my grandparents) and then my sister from the age of 5 onward. By age 7, I was in charge of 3 younger cousins most days. By 9, I was in charge of cleaning, laundry, etc. Some of my laziness with housework now probably is a rebellion against taking on adult responsibilities as a child.

One of the reasons what DS said got my attention is that I recall vividly thinking, "I want to be an adult because then I can make my own decisions" as a child. I had a turbulent, abusive childhood, and I craved being able to decide for myself what would happen. I want DC to LOVE their childhood time and not spend it, like I did, waiting until they can get out & be happy.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

it sounds like he is really craving structure and routine. I would institute a daily schedule and maybe a few simple rules (perhaps clearing your dishes when you are done eating, putting shoes in their proper place, just five or six things you can consistently follow through with so he can feel the boundaries when he wants to.) Schedule in chore time every day.

i would also really work on the house. I know my parents inability to keep the house clean killed me as a child and now my inability is hurting me. and my children.

now if you will excuse me I am going to go clean my kitchen....


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:

A smidge off topic, but I have to ask..... There's a proper way to vacuum?!?!?!
Apparently! See, what I was doing was heading towards any visible bits of dirt I could see, schlping them up one by one quite happily. What you're _supposed_ to do is vacuum the whole floor in a grid-like pattern, whether certain sections appear to need it or not. This was news to me - then again, I thought vacuuming the floor was kind of batty in the first place, because this woman's kids were all grown up and the floor looked ridiculously neat to me.







(Also, who babysits a kid and makes her vacuum the floor and then criticises her for it? AND she once put honey on my little sister's dummy to keep her quiet. I have issues with this woman.)

VisionaryMom: I think converting the den into a bedroom would be AWESOME. You might have to spell out that all the junk will be removed first, and again, a new coat of paint is the best thing ever.







Get him excited about it with promises of vasty storage space. Like a PP I got my own room at 13ish, and it really made me 100% happier. I shared with smaller sisters, including, at one stage, a sister with special needs who would trash my stuff. Having my own space was heavenly. I didn't keep it particularly clean







, but even knowing it was MY mess gave me untold bliss.

Good luck - I'm glad DD currently shows no signs of being a routine-craving neat freak, because I'm not sure I could deal.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smokering* 
Apparently! See, what I was doing was heading towards any visible bits of dirt I could see, schlping them up one by one quite happily. What you're _supposed_ to do is vacuum the whole floor in a grid-like pattern, whether certain sections appear to need it or not. This was news to me - then again, I thought vacuuming the floor was kind of batty in the first place, because this woman's kids were all grown up and the floor looked ridiculously neat to me.







(Also, who babysits a kid and makes her vacuum the floor and then criticises her for it? AND she once put honey on my little sister's dummy to keep her quiet. I have issues with this woman.)


I have to ask... You didn't know that you are technically supposed to vacuum the whole floor when you vacuum? I have never met anyone that just went for the visible dirt. Though I suppose if it was a babysitter I can understand that a child wouldn't necessarily know that. I have no idea what kind of babysitter gets the kid to vacuum while their are there.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Sometimes when you vacuum, you are just doing spot vacuuming, and sometimes you do the whole floor. The reason for doing the whole floor is for the dust, or so I understand.

I don't care if my grids are symmetrical, however. I hear some people want it all to go in a pattern.

My mom used to ask me to fold the towels and then tell me I was doing it wrong. I guess she liked it folded in half and then in third, but I'd just hold it in half and then in half again.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

VM - the only reason why your son refused the offer of his own room downstairs is coz its cluttered too. not that he didnt want a room.

talk to him. offer him the room after telling him you will empty it out completely (hope that IS an option for you) and he can decorate it the way he wants to.

and then start working on your house.

i dream to be a minimalist. its a huge struggle for me.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
VM - the only reason why your son refused the offer of his own room downstairs is coz its cluttered too. not that he didnt want a room.

talk to him. offer him the room after telling him you will empty it out completely (hope that IS an option for you) and he can decorate it the way he wants to.

I'll talk to him today. Doing that would be a huge, huge undertaking, but we can do it if it will make him happy. I really don't want him to grow up thinking we didn't respect what he needed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
i dream to be a minimalist. its a huge struggle for me.

Sadly, I do, too. I just can't seem to get there!







I would love to have very few things, but I haven't been able to make it happen.


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## hopefulfaith (Mar 28, 2005)

This thread resonated with me - I was the same way, growing up - I need order...probably more than most.







Remember that picture in the "Berenstain Bears and the Messy Room" where, at the end, all of their toys are in neat, labeled boxes in the closet? I adored that, and I always wanted our house to be like that. (Yes, probably pathological....I know that.)

Well, our house wasn't.







My mom has always tended toward ADHD and was a busy, working mom on top of that. My sister and brother are .... just messy. My sister truly doesn't *see* the mess.

I vividly remember when I got my own room. My mom recognized this when I was about 9 or 10 or so, and she fixed me up a bedroom in a basement storage room so that I wouldn't have to share with my sister any more. It was really, really good for me. My own little world was organized to my heart's content, and it made me feel .... balanced. I would clean the house as best as I could, but when the day was done and I was tucked in my own little space that was within my control, I really think it made me happier and better able to deal with the rest of my house.

I feel sort of silly posting this, but I remember feeling the same way as your son and having my own space was really, really, really necessary and good for me. I am glad you are aware of his needs.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
In reading through everyone's responses, I'm thinking that maybe 1) our house does need major work and 2) he needs his "space." He doesn't have that. He sometimes goes to his room and shuts his door, but he does not have any space that is sacred for him.

I think you hit the nail right on the head here!
1. As an artist, I know how messy it can get with bits of fabric, paint supplies, toys.... it starts out a little mess, and then it grows to all the rooms to the point you feel really overwelemed. Not like you are swiming, but like you are drowing in it. I personally tolerate a lot of mess, but even I hit a point of overwhelming mess, where I don't even know where to start, because it is everywhere. Then I do a deep clean. Really deep. And I chuck stuff that I hate to chuck, because really, do I need that old pc from 1997? And no, the ram in it can't be used to fit a newer model computer, and no the monitor is ancient and... No, I don't need it. I hate the actual cleaning, but my life seems so much more clear and organised afterwards. And my DS loves it. It is obvious on him - his joy, his movement in the new, clean, flowing space. I noticed this on him when he was about 3. It really impacted on me that it was healthier and better for him to have more order. So now I deep clean more, maybe once every 2-3 weeks. I don't let it get that out of hand anymore. And yes, I feel better about it now too.
2. YEs to the individual space. My DS and DD share a bedroom, but there is no clutter in there - a bed, a dresser with clothes, and a book shelf with only books and a lamp. No toys, no art projects, nothing. But it is so safe and comforting for them to sleep there, without distractions. If a bedroom is not possible for you, give him a clearly marked off area of the family room, or dining room or room in a basement.... find something. And tell him he can keep DD out of there.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
First, I'm a bit of a hoarder. It's something I'm working really, really hard on, and we've been trying to go through everything. We're in the middle of a major purge right now, but I know that I tend to save, save, save. It drives DH a little batty, but he copes.

Hi. My name is Linda and I'm a recovering hoarder. It's been 1 week since the last time I realized that I didn't need something and would most likely never use it again, and yet found a place to put it anyway.









Here is a list of questions (which I got from flylady.net) that I read through when I declutter.

Do I love this item?

Have I used it in the past year?

Is it really garbage?

Do I have another one that is better?

Does it have sentimental value that causes me to love it?

Does it give me guilt and make me sad when I see it?

What does this represent?

Why am I afraid to get rid of it?

How long am I going to carry it around?

Does it bless my family? Could it bless someone else's family?

Quote:

Some of my laziness with housework now probably is a rebellion against taking on adult responsibilities as a child.

....I had a turbulent, abusive childhood, and I craved being able to decide for myself what would happen. I want DC to LOVE their childhood time and not spend it, like I did, waiting until they can get out & be happy.
We have a lot in common.









I think it is great that you are finding a way to give him his own space. I have one child who truly needs order and another child who is creative and wild and thinks best in a mess. They cannot share a room. I keep the main areas of our house uncluttered (except for one small pile on the kitchen counter that I do daily battle with!)


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

It sounds like you have a good plan, clearing out that room. Something similar happened when I was a kid. My parents offered the finished room on the third floor that was being used as storage to my brothers for a bedroom. They weren't interested but they were covetous after they saw it all fixed up. (My dad fixed their bedroom up, too, down the line.)

My ds really appreciates a clean and tidy house. I just never thought little boys would notice or care so much, lol.

Your ds will be so thrilled to have that room cleared out. Some fresh paint and some shelves on which to organize his stuff and he will be in heaven. It'll be work but you can make it happen!


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

OP, I think it's great that you're so attuned to your DS's needs -- he's very lucky to have a mama who will take him seriously and respond when he brings up concerns like this! He sounds like a really sweet, communicative, self-aware little boy.

Your plan to clear out the downstairs room for him sounds great -- I bet he'll love having his very own space to keep as fastidious as he wants. I remember feeling a deep sense of comfort from my own mom's neat housekeeping and predictable routine. We did spur-of-the-moment stuff too, like a surprise beach day or being woken up to go see a meteor shower, but there was something really soothing about waking up every Saturday morning to the sound of her sweeping the floors. To this day, when we visit her, that's what she does on Saturday mornings and it makes me feel all misty and nostalgic to lie in bed and listen.

Always having a clear dining table is one habit I got from her. Unless we're eating a meal or using it for an activity, there's nothing on the dining table (except maybe a vase of flowers). I love that it's always ready for homework, crafting, etc. -- I remember visiting friends' homes as a child and feeling frustrated when there were no clear work surfaces for us to use for our coloring books or whatever.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
He does share a room with his sister, who is a little like Linus. If something can be made into a mess, she finds the way to do it! We have a downstairs den that is unused. DH asked him tonight if he thought converting that to his bedroom would work, but he said "no, it's too messy down there." (Since it's unused, it's becoming a dumping ground/storage area. Yeah, now that I'm writing all of this out, maybe our house is that bad.)

I haven't read past here, but would it maybe work to move his sister into the downstairs den, and let him keep the room he's currently in as his own?


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

My DD tends to be like this, not the cleaning so much, but her ideals on what a house "should" be like, ummmm she's almost 4. She went through a phase last spring where she was obsessed with other people's houses.

In her words "our house is crappy", yes she heard the crappy part from me, she doesn't say that anymore, BUT our house is kinda crappy. We are in a state of perpetual remodel and our house is 100 years old, she likes "new" nice houses, like our neighbors across the street, heck I agree with her at times. What I told her is that we are trying to make our home nicer, but that it takes time and money and with things the way they are sometimes things don't happen as quickly as we like. She has a beautiful room and much of our house is comfortable, but there are a few things like our stairwell and our computer room that get 2 thumbs down. They both need sheetrock done and painting.

For her it's not the mess, it the actual looks of things, she likes things to look nice. She's like a "Fancy-Nancy".


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
it sounds like he is really craving structure and routine. I would institute a daily schedule and maybe a few simple rules (perhaps clearing your dishes when you are done eating, putting shoes in their proper place, just five or six things you can consistently follow through with so he can feel the boundaries when he wants to.) Schedule in chore time every day.

i would also really work on the house. I know my parents inability to keep the house clean killed me as a child and now my inability is hurting me. and my children.

now if you will excuse me I am going to go clean my kitchen....

I agree. It's really hard, but with time, it gets easier. I think it's reasonable to try to keep the house cleaner and provide a little structure if it makes him feel calmer and more in control. I don't think he sounds OCD... he sounds type A. He wants a clean house. Nothing to medicate him for.

My house was BAD while I was a kid. I didn't really mind, but when I look at pictures of our house, I am mortified that I ever brought kids into that mess. I should have been embarrassed.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

[QUOTE\]One of the reasons what DS said got my attention is that I recall vividly thinking, "I want to be an adult because then I can make my own decisions" as a child. I had a turbulent, abusive childhood, and I craved being able to decide for myself what would happen. I want DC to LOVE their childhood time and not spend it, like I did, waiting until they can get out & be happy.[/QUOTE]

I am really moved by this. I can deeply relate to the feeling of wanting to protect your child from the things that were difficult about your own upbringing.

You are listening to your son, taking him seriously and making a big effort to understand his needs. You are also willing to look at yourself and recognize that some of your own behavior may need to change. That's HUGE!

You're right, you may not be able to create the perfect environment for your son, but I think that if your caring & your love for him come through, it won't matter if you get to "perfect." If you listen to him, make efforts to change the things that really do need improvement, and give him a place of his own where he can have his needs met, I think you're doing an awesome job. And I think your son will remember his childhood as a time when he was valued & cared for.


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## Qbear'smama (Jul 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
One of the reasons what DS said got my attention is that I recall vividly thinking, "I want to be an adult because then I can make my own decisions" as a child. I had a turbulent, abusive childhood, and I craved being able to decide for myself what would happen. I want DC to LOVE their childhood time and not spend it, like I did, waiting until they can get out & be happy.

CI Mama already said what I was thinking VM, this really resonated with me too because I remember feeling the same way and I also feel very strongly that I don't want my kids to feel that way. I just wanted to say you're awesome for hearing him and looking for a solution for him, even though it will be a struggle for you. He's a lucky kid to have a mom like you!!


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

I just want to add...

I don't think anyone is a perfect parent, and I don't think any person gets through life without some baggage.

What I hope for myself is that my mistakes will be different from my parents' mistakes (because I learned from theirs) and my daughter's baggage will be her own, not something I handed off to her.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilmom* 
I would say he definitely needs at least one part of the house that he can keep as neat and organized as he likes. It's probably just part of his personality and he will always be this way. I don't think it means he is seriously unhappy, but it probably genuinely bothers him and he probably WILL be very happy to have his own place one day. I totally get it. BTDT.











I think it's wonderful he is so in touch with his own temperament at this age !
It's also wonderful that you are taking him seriously and making some adjustments for him.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

(Since it's unused, it's becoming a dumping ground/storage area. Yeah, now that I'm writing all of this out, maybe our house is that bad.)
Do you actually need the things in that room that are being dumped? Can you donate most of it? Could you rent a small dumpster or a friend's truck and take the stuff that you can't donate to Goodwill to the dump?


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Do you actually need the things in that room that are being dumped? Can you donate most of it? Could you rent a small dumpster or a friend's truck and take the stuff that you can't donate to Goodwill to the dump?

If you ask DH, he would say no, we don't need it. He wants to get a dumpster and just toss it all. I'm not so sure. I need to get in there this weekend.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:

I have to ask... You didn't know that you are technically supposed to vacuum the whole floor when you vacuum?
Nope. As I say, Mum didn't really do the housekeeping thing. She never taught us to clean, or even modelled it particularly well. So I vacuumed the way that seemed logical to a kid - vacuuming up the "stuff" and ignoring the apparently clean bits. I know it's not the right way _now_, but that was kind of my point...


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
If you ask DH, he would say no, we don't need it. He wants to get a dumpster and just toss it all. I'm not so sure. I need to get in there this weekend.

Just a little cleaning, organizing, parting with that stuff tip...let dh have his way with it. if you don't know what is down there, if you couldn't get to it even if you needed it, if it was unimportant enough to move down there in the first place, don't even think twice about it. Honestly if it was important you would at least be able to tell us off the top of your head "most of it is unimportant but x, y and z need to find a home." and you would be able to get to them within a few minutes. "I might use it some day" is not a good reason to keep something. I have one shelf in my basement for stuff I might use one day or use once a year (for example all my canning stuff, my bunt pan, my ice cream maker..i see a theme here...) and one self for seasonal decorations (if it can't fit on that shelf I have amassed too much). I have two shelves with my sewing and knitting stuff but I actually make money on that stuff so it has earned more room. I need to weed it down because I don't make nearly as much money as I used to).

So there is my organizing tip there. If you have to think about it it is probably not all that important.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
if you don't know what is down there, if you couldn't get to it even if you needed it, if it was unimportant enough to move down there in the first place, don't even think twice about it.

I know what's down there. We have hundreds of books. Both DH & I have book obsessions. There are boxes of books that we don't have shelf space for right now. Every time we talk about getting rid of them, we come back to the same conclusion, which is that when we have a bigger house, we will have a library. We've considered turning the den into a library/reading room, but it's never seemed feasible.

I also have lots of arts & crafts supplies. Some of those could be tossed. Well, I suppose all of them could be tossed, but I do go down and get them when we need them.

Two things are going on in the den. The first is that in an effort to make the upstairs better - i.e. less cluttered - we have moved some things downstairs. The second is that I do tend to save all of the kids' things. I have a very hard time getting rid of their stuff. Please understand that I have *nothing* from when I was growing up. We moved all the time. Sometimes we couch-surfed with relatives and friends. I did not have a home until I was 5. (Seriously. I stayed with friends or relatives who would take me in for a couple of days at a time. I didn't have anywhere permanent.) Even the thought of getting rid of the kids' clothes and art is making me teary-eyed. I know this is a problem, but it's not the same problem as the one upstairs that's causing grief for DS.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Smokering said:


> Apparently! What you're _supposed_ to do is vacuum the whole floor in a grid-like pattern, whether certain sections appear to need it or not. This was news to me
> 
> For real?!
> 
> ...


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Yes







and Yes







He's lucky to have a Mama like u.



limabean said:


> OP, I think it's great that you're so attuned to your DS's needs -- he's very lucky to have a mama who will take him seriously and respond when he brings up concerns like this! He sounds like a really sweet, communicative, self-aware little boy.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree that he's lucky to have you for a mom. This thread is officially one of my favourites.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Do you have room for a storage shed?

If I were in your position emotionally and practically, I'd keep the kids' stuff and get rid of everything else. But the kids' stuff would all go into nice tight Rubbermaid tubs, which in turn would go into the garage or a storage shed or even a storage locker. You don't have to keep the books for your future library. When you have your big library-having dream house, you can buy more books. Meanwhile the actual library can keep the old books for you.

Also I recently got rid of/ donated a bunch of arts and crafts supplies. I just will buy more when I want more. The library probably will accept those too.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I agree that he's lucky to have you for a mom. This thread is officially one of my favourites.

















Thanks, Mamas. Most days I really don't feel equipped to be a mother.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Do you have room for a storage shed?
...
You don't have to keep the books for your future library. When you have your big library-having dream house, you can buy more books. Meanwhile the actual library can keep the old books for you.

Don't say it! I have that thought when I'm in the mood to get rid of things. We'll just get them later, but I can't ever bring myself to take the plunge.

We could put up a storage shed. We have room, but we also have a sizable basement. Our basement is ~ 800 sq ft. We have shelving along all of the walls, but most of the floor space is open. There is an old coal room within it that's probably 120 sq ft. That's crammed with stuff that really can go without any sentiment or anything.

DH & I sat down tonight & made up a massive cleaning schedule for purging everything, and DS is totally on board to toss things. We'll see how it goes.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

VM - if i lived anywhere close to your son i would borrow him to help me too. i live in a tiny space but i still have too much stuff. mind you i have less than 1/5th of what i used to have. but for the space i still have too much.

oh so you are a book worshipper too? when i moved in to take care of my xinlaws i was FORCED to get rid of my one bedroom stuffed apt stuff to fit into a one room. i gave away 5 giant bookshelves of books. i didnt have $$$ to put in storage. i lived downtown and i just put the books out on the side walk. i kept a few that had personal things on them, and a few that was too expensive to replace and gave away the rest.

it was a glorious experience that helped me be able to give away from then on. soo many people stopped and thanked me for the books. they were so thrilled that they found these books FREE!!! ooh i so gloated over the compliments of my reading taste. serious stuff to light stuff. i was sooo thrilled. i didnt have to take it to goodwill. but it was picked up with oohs and ahhs and gratefulness to be added to their library. it was such a great experience. i knew they were going to be well taken care of. even my couches. the college student was soooo grateful.

guess what now i have two giant bookshelves full of books and a garage full of 15 boxes of books that will stay there till i can bring them home. this was in the last 2 years. but i will say some of them are my xinlaws books which none of their family wanted and they are great books.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
I know what's down there. We have hundreds of books. Both DH & I have book obsessions. There are boxes of books that we don't have shelf space for right now. Every time we talk about getting rid of them, we come back to the same conclusion, which is that when we have a bigger house, we will have a library. We've considered turning the den into a library/reading room, but it's never seemed feasible.

I am a recovering book buying addict. When I lived in NY I used to go to the Strand second hand bookstore and drop 1/2 a weeks pay on books about once a month. It was insane, I had so many books.

About 10 years ago, I tried to restrict myself to buying hardbacks, the idea was they were so much more expensive I would buy fewer. Still was buying too many. it drove my DH nuts. We live in a relatively small space...

5 years ago I went library-only. Two years ago I packed up most of the books in the house, keeping only the favorites and those with sentimental value, and donated them to the local hospital book drive.

It was worth it, I have so much more space and get always get almost any book I need from the library that is one block from my office.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Another book addict here....

We've taken lots of books to a second hand store, donated boxes to soldiers in Iraq, and given them to the library.

There are some really special books that I'll always keep, but most books just aren't like that. While they are piled up in your home being ignored, it makes them sad. They want to be free. They want to be picked up and read.

Set them free. Let them have a real life. Let someone else enjoy them.

For me, when I kept too many books, it made them all less special. They were a hassle and a burden. When I cut it down, it not only made it more managable, it also made the ones I kept more precious. Less really is more.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm not going to offer any advice (because you've already gotten good advice) but I want to be another person telling you that you are awesome. My family certainly never paid attention to my needs like you are doing. You are awesome!









(And I moved a lot as a kid too. More than 50 times before I turned 18. Lots of couch surfing sorts of stuff. At this point it is very difficult for me to form emotional attachment to anything. I'm the least sentimental person ever and I constantly get rid of stuff because owning things makes me feel twitchy because in the back of my mind I am always calculating how long it will take me to pack all of my belongings. It's funny how people react differently to similar situations.







)


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## lilmom (Nov 9, 2008)

Just popping back in to say that you are awesome and I am so excited for your DS that he is getting his own space!!! Woohoooo!


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Viola said:


> My mom used to ask me to fold the towels and then tell me I was doing it wrong. I guess she liked it folded in half and then in third, but I'd just hold it in half and then in half again.


Total nother topic but we went to family therapy for this exact thing (smaller pc of a huge issue but still)... gosh the skin is crawling.....


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## daytripper75 (Jul 29, 2003)

This book has taught me everything I know about keeping house: http://www.amazon.com/Home-Comforts-.../dp/068481465X
It's comprehensive!


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## bits and bobs (Apr 7, 2008)

It's time consuming but I take photos of the kiddy artwork, then keep only the best of the best. It breaks my heart to throw out anything but it was out of control. I started only recently, kids are 6 and 8, and took about 700 photos!

The clothes are very hard for me too. I have realised though that I have photos of my kids wearing their clothes, and that made me feel ok. The other thing I do is pass on clothes straight away now and to people I know and see. I can't describe the buzz I get seeing kids down at school wearing my kids' hand me downs. I LOVE it.


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

I find this whole thread very interesting. I LOVED having my own room. But for the opposite reason, I wanted a place where I could leave my projects out without bothering anyone. I think maybe the problem is you've let your whole house turn into that. I'll have to be careful about that when I get my own house.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

This thread is pretty inspirational. As a book lover, I am of course interested in buying the book recommended above, LOL. Yes, buy a book to help manage my over-supply of books!

My son's friend recently said something about how our house is always a mess. That was rude, but also accurate so I want to do better.

One tip on books: there is a web application called Library Thing. It's an online record of your books. My DH has felt much more freedom to get rid of books since he records them in Library Thing. You can have the memory of the book, without having the physical book.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I realized, in a very traumatic way, that the 'stuff' I needed, wasn't necessary. We lost everything in a fire. Oddly, it was distressing, but it was very freeing. I now realize that we don't need to keep things. I pass along outgrown clothes, I take pictures of kid art projects- the few things I do hang on to in terms of kid art are given frames and hung throughout our huse- if it is worth keeping, it is worth showing off constantly (I do sometimes put two pictures in a frame and switch them a couple times a year, storing one behind the other.)

I grew up in a house very much like you describe, and while I was able to tolerate it pretty well as a kid, my brother was not- he disengaged from the family about the time he was 12. He moved his room to the basement, created the order he craved, and spent any time he was home there. It was distressing to him to have toexist in the chaos of piles of paper etc. I tolerated it better- but didn't learn to organize/purge well, and was embarrassed about having friends over. It wasn't dirty or anything of the sort- it was just busy. Mom and dad had books everywhere, piles of papers, art in progress etc.. it was too much for me to want to invite people into. I don't want my kids growing up like my brother and I did.

As an adult, I relegate any and all visual clutter to our bedroom, or to a separate storage area. I will not have anything on surfaces in my home because it makes ME feel disordered, and my kids pick up on it. I keep my home in a way that I am happy to invite people in at any given moment- because I remember the 'so and so are coming over- time to pick up!' frenzies, and I don't want to feel that stressed.

I am glad you are listening to your son, and willing to meet his needs. He's lucky to have such a caring and insightful mom.


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## dantesmama (May 14, 2006)

*


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I love Librarything. I have a category of "read but not owned" where I record library books, or books I decide not to keep. I still have them "collected", but they don't take up any shelf space this way









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Girlprof* 
One tip on books: there is a web application called Library Thing. It's an online record of your books. My DH has felt much more freedom to get rid of books since he records them in Library Thing. You can have the memory of the book, without having the physical book.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Well, we've made some progress today. I tossed quite a few trash bags full of stuff we didn't need. We went to the laundry mat because laundry was sooo far behind, and then we dropped off a bunch of things at Goodwill. All in all, we've had a productive day, though the house is actually messier at this point in the process.

DS seems to be happy. He gathered up all of the baskets & buckets that got emptied today of things we no longer need and took them to his room. He's sorted his toys into them and is super excited about it!

When we were in the car tonight, he started talking about our neighbor, who has a Jeep & a motorcycle. DS said, "he doesn't take good care of his Jeep or motorcycle. When we don't take care of our things, they get broken" in this very sad sort of way, so maybe he's just thinking a lot about "things." DD tends to break pretty much everything. She's very destructive. She's never broken his things on purpose, and we try to keep her away from his stuff. She just tends to be a little tornado, though.

I do think about getting rid of our books, but I'm just not there. I frequently refer back to them for research for work, though we have a large collection of fiction, some of it now out of print, that we don't *need*.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I was going to say, till I read a few posts....that this sounds like my son, who is also 5.5 and occasionally makes comments like this about wanting to go live with someone else, namely his best friend.

I was going to say that I think it's a developmental thing--more experience with playdates, other kids' homes, and the ability to see another perspective and imagine a life that is different from what they live. (understanding that there *are* other ways)

The difference i see though, is my son makes these comments pretty much only when he is mad about some rule I'm enforcing or something--like the other day I think it was that I'd taken away computer or video game privilege for some reason.
(In this case, I tell him he's free to ask his friend, or friend's mom about that rule at their house,







or when it's been about bedtime, I remind him his friend actually has an earlier bedtime than him all summer because of daycare, while he is home with me. I don't think he ever has. I think in reality he sees that his friend has rules too.)
Yours....seems to want more control over the order of his life. You *can* give him that. There's some good ideas here. (And that's not at all a criticism, just an observation. I could just have a kid who is fine with the flow here...and in a few years, I might find one is not.














)


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## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

It sounds like you are off to a good start!

I read in one of your posts that you have cleaning day every Sunday. In my experience with 5 yo's, a week can seem like forever to them, no matter how fast it seems to go by for us adults!! Is there any time in your daily schedule to do a room a day? Like:

Monday: Living Room
Tuesday: Dining Room
Wednesday: Bedrooms
Thursday: Kitchen
Friday: Bathroom (I know you said you try to get to the kitchen and bathroom everyday, but maybe a little deeper cleaning like cleaning out the fridge or scouring the tub)

It may just seem like a long time between cleanings to him. If he knew you were commited to doing a little every day he might feel more relaxed about it. I started having my kids help me pick up and do little things like sweep the floor every day starting about an hour before their dad gets off work (we still need to get more consistant about it, though!!). It's nice not to have dad walk into a huge mess!


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Just popping in to say what a great thing it is that you're helping your son like this. I don't think its OCD at all. I used to scrub the bathrooms as a kid and loved to organize. I lost it in my early 20's but now am back to being super organized and minimal and I love it! It truly helps me feel more at ease and have peace of mind. I cannot stand clutter or mess at all anymore.

Someone else mentioned it, but check out www.flylady.net and maybe even print out her lists of cleaning and the weekly 'flyzones' so your son can work on things consistently. I don't stick to it 100% but like she recommends 15 minutes a day makes a phenomenal difference in clutter and deep cleaning. Now instead of spending 2 hours on bathrooms every 2 weeks, I spend maybe 15 minutes per week and they *always* look pretty nice. She has a great system.

Best wishes!!


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