# I have a really bad feeling... UPDATE post 34...it was HORRIBLE!



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Wait, your DH was abused as a child, right? And you know for a fact that other parents there use belts on their children?

It doesn't sound to me like your panic is for nothing. It sounds like you know you're about to take your wee little babe into a veritable nest of known child abusers. I'd be freaking out too!









Honestly? The baby is still so young that it doesn't matter who wants to hold him. Wear him in a sling and just nurse nurse nurse (assuming you're BFing). Don't feel the need to pass him around if you don't feel comfortable with the person who wants to hold him. You're the mama and you get to decide whether he will be held or not.

But seriously, wear him in a sling. He'll probably sleep most of the time and few people have the gall to reach into a sling to manhandle a baby.

If I were in your shoes I'd get very comfortable using lines like, "Thank you, but he's very comfortable in his sling right now" and "No, you can't hold him but let's get a picture together!"

I would definitely NOT let the baby out of my sight, given your DH's family's history. Yikes.


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## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

When I'm around lots of family, I keep the baby in wrap. Most people assume that its really hard to get him in and out of it and I don't do anything to dispel that belief.


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## heather+mike2005 (Apr 1, 2008)

Hugs to you, mama.









I know how hard it can be to let others hold your baby. My son was baptised the other week and there were about 40 people there who wanted to hold my ds. Especially my ILs. Ugh. They annoy me on many levels. Mainly because their parenting views differ from mine and they feel the need to buy him lots of junky stuff to make up for the fact that they live 4 hours away and don't see him much. It was so very incredibly difficult to let them hold him. But I did let them...for a very, very short period of time. When I had had enough I took him right back. And if that upset them, too bad. He's my ds. They've raised their kids.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Oh, and if you don't feel up to saying no directly, never underestimate the power of blaming your pediatrician (even if you don't have one).

"His doctor says he shouldn't be handled by too many people before he's a little older. His little immune system needs more time to grow!"

Most people will back off immediately if you phrase your parenting preferences as "doctor's orders".


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## rubyeta (Jan 11, 2007)

uggg, I understand the anxiety, coming from a huge family myself!!! I love the sling idea. You could also make up an excuse any time someone asks. Like "oh, sorry, I was about to feed, change etc...". You could also say that he gets really overstimulated (then fussy) when held by people that are unfamiliar to him... good luck!!!


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

SLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At all early gatherings I plopped DS into a sling or wrap and that was that. People won't try and take him out. If he was looking like he'd like to be with people, great. But as soon as he needed momma I'd take him back saying he was hungry - plop him right back into the sling. Helped that he couldn't resist a good sling nap at that age.









I never let the "pass the baby" game be played. Not fair to the baby. If it upsets the adults, oh well. You don't see these people often, right?


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 
You're the mama and you get to decide whether he will be held or not.

I love that phrase! It's true though. It's YOUR child and YOU decide who does or does not touch him.

I agree with wearing him in a sling. People are less likely to reach for your torso to "touch the baby"


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Actually, my pedi did tell me that the baby shouldn't be passed around during our visits home because at this point in the year we're still at the tail end of cold/flu season. No reason to expose a LO. If there were special people who I trusted with my child i would find a quiet moment or place to share that experience with them. Not during a huge gathering by any means.

Trust your mama instincts and keep your baby close!


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

When pregnant, the thought of people (outside from a select few) holding my baby kept me up at night. The thought of being at a gathering and baby-passing would have given me hives!

So I get where you are coming from. Just posting to say I understand, you aren't alone.


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## Tdunahoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm in a similar boat with in laws with kids almost the same age as DS. My BIL is almost 3 years older than DS so I know how hard it can be to explain parenting styles etc. Good news is your DS is only 3 months so that conversation is a long ways away so I wouldn't stress about that just yet.

Everyone holding the baby? I HATED that too and would have anxiety attacks about it. I found that people are a lot more respectful than I gave them credit for. Only really close family (a couple aunts who love my DH and grandparents) wanted to hold DS and as soon as he made any sort of sound I would just say "I need to grab him, new mommy thing" like, I'd made a joke out of it but people knew I was serious even in my joking tone and hand him back over. I second saying "doctors orders" that always works too.

Good Luck this weekend!


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
Actually, my pedi did tell me that the baby shouldn't be passed around during our visits home because at this point in the year we're still at the tail end of cold/flu season. No reason to expose a LO. If there were special people who I trusted with my child i would find a quiet moment or place to share that experience with them. Not during a huge gathering by any means.

Trust your mama instincts and keep your baby close!


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

sounds like you've got a good plan... i just wanted to send a







!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I usually like pass-the-baby but I didn't ever hand him off to known child abusers. Why are they holding a family gathering at their house, not in jail? (Rhetorical question, I realize the statute of limitations is past.)


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## Asher (Aug 21, 2004)

I so agree with the sling! That's what I do, anyway, but especially when I don't want anyone else trying to take or touch the baby!









Good luck!


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I never allow "pass the baby" and I don't care if other people don't like it. (and trust me, they don't like it at all)

I agree with all of the pp's suggestions of the sling. My IL's actually took offense to me putting my preemie baby in a sling at Christmas. Their reaction didn't bother me one bit.

Babies are human beings, they are not born for adult entertainment.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

The funny thing is, I never understood "pass the baby". I'm not one to reach for other people's babies. I assume they want to hold their children. it freaks me out when people try to force their baby on me, "Don't you want to hold the baby?" Um, no, it isn't mine!

back to the OP, wrap that baby up in the moby and I bet no one will come near him! You'll be all set! And if all else fails, just leave early. That's my solution for dealing with my IL's.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

The sling is the best deterant.

It's true about the doctor excuse too. I've had an uppper respiratory infection for over a week. DD has it now. It's going around heavy around here. Doctors offices are swamped with this viral infection going around. We made it all winter without getting sick. Now that spring is here, we're all getting sick







:

I was at a baby shower a while back--me and my almost 2 year old, getting bigger by the day and slowly losing that babyness. An old friend was there with her itty bitty brand new baby. Itty bitty. I was ecstatic to see her and her baby (for the first time). I wanted to hold that tiny baby soooooo bad.

But I would never in a million years flat out ask someone to hold their baby--not even a good friend. I patiently waited for her to offer me to hold the baby. If she never offered, I wouldn't have asked. I don't understand people who rush up to hold an infant who needs their mother. *shrugs*


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## slylives (Mar 4, 2007)

I think you've had some great ideas from PP about wearing your baby in a sling, and I hope the trip will be much less stressful than you fear!

But I just wanted to say - as much as a response to PP as the OP - that there is nothing odd or unsavory about people wanting to hold your baby. Babies are a source of joy and wonder and in my experience, most people melt at the thought of holding a sweet, perfectly-scented little monkey! Most people wouldn't dream of trying to take the baby away, or hold on when the baby needs to be with Mama. They just want to share in that joy for a few moments. Perhaps to remind them of when their children were tiny.

If you aren't comfortable with it, that's your prerogative. But please don't ascribe ulterior motives to where they rarely exist.


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Also, we always asked people to wash their hands first. Very helpful in a big group. It can be doctor's orders too.

Personally, I will usually ask to hold, after washing my hand, a non-slinged baby and won't ask to hold a slinged baby. And I am not at all offended when someone says no. But I never offerred my infant. A lot of people really don't want to hold them.


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## TheTMommy (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slylives* 
I think you've had some great ideas from PP about wearing your baby in a sling, and I hope the trip will be much less stressful than you fear!

But I just wanted to say - as much as a response to PP as the OP - that there is nothing odd or unsavory about people wanting to hold your baby. Babies are a source of joy and wonder and in my experience, most people melt at the thought of holding a sweet, perfectly-scented little monkey! Most people wouldn't dream of trying to take the baby away, or hold on when the baby needs to be with Mama. They just want to share in that joy for a few moments. Perhaps to remind them of when their children were tiny.

If you aren't comfortable with it, that's your prerogative. But please don't ascribe ulterior motives to where they rarely exist.









:

In our family, babies are treasured, and little ones at family gatherings are quite popular.







:


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slylives* 

If you aren't comfortable with it, that's your prerogative. But please don't ascribe ulterior motives to where they rarely exist.

Normally, I agree with this sentiment, but it sounds as though the people at this particular gathering are known child abusers.


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## Make(. )( .)NotWar (Apr 8, 2009)

Wear your baby. All the time. I wish I had better advice for you, but I don't. In your shoes I would just be flying by the seat of my pants, and I'd opt to wear, wear, wear, that baby!.


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

I found wearing my son (the more complicated the sling/wrap, the better) was a huge deterrent. Actually I got so used to it that even when there were people around who I didn't mind holding him, I'd forget to offer (my poor sister in law finally said something--this was her only niece/nephew). I'm super picky about who holds my baby. I think we should all listen to our gut instincts on that one.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *labdogs42* 
The funny thing is, I never understood "pass the baby". I'm not one to reach for other people's babies. I assume they want to hold their children. it freaks me out when people try to force their baby on me, "Don't you want to hold the baby?" Um, no, it isn't mine!

back to the OP, wrap that baby up in the moby and I bet no one will come near him! You'll be all set! And if all else fails, just leave early. That's my solution for dealing with my IL's.


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

I just flat out tell people she doesn't like to be passed around, it makes her fussy and overstimulated. Some think if she is sleeping she is happy and I let them know she is probably sleeping because that is what some babes do when overstimlulated. Some look at me like I am nuts, some get it.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *slylives* 
I think you've had some great ideas from PP about wearing your baby in a sling, and I hope the trip will be much less stressful than you fear!

But I just wanted to say - as much as a response to PP as the OP - that there is nothing odd or unsavory about people wanting to hold your baby. Babies are a source of joy and wonder and in my experience, most people melt at the thought of holding a sweet, perfectly-scented little monkey! Most people wouldn't dream of trying to take the baby away, or hold on when the baby needs to be with Mama. They just want to share in that joy for a few moments. Perhaps to remind them of when their children were tiny.

If you aren't comfortable with it, that's your prerogative. But please don't ascribe ulterior motives to where they rarely exist.


I posted previously to keep baby in a sling. But I also agree with this above.

When dd was itty bitty, I was very selfish with her. I was a brand new mama and she was my baby. But as dd grew, I grew. When she started crawling (5 months), I had the first bitter sweet moment of "my baby is growing up so fast". It was around that age that I started letting people hold dd more often. It was around that age that I realized, "One day my baby will be a grown woman and I will long to hold another baby again, just like this woman next to me who _needs_ to hold my daughter in her arms for just a few minutes to have that joy again....."

It took 5 months to get to that point, but I'm glad I did. The OP's baby is 3 months old, if I remember correctly. When dd was 3 months old, I was still a raging mother bear. When she's ready, she will let others share in the joy of holding her babe. Each mama has to go at her own pace. And there is nothing wrong with that.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I understand. Just remember that YOU are the mama and you get to make the decisons, even if it annoys other people. It will be ok. I have found with each child and as they get older I get more and more confident about telling people whatever I need to tell them, and if they get irritated - well that is their problem not mine. Its my job to watch out for my kids and that is all.


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## alisoncooks (Apr 9, 2009)

Wearing the baby is a great idea! Wish I'd thought of that all the many times of visiting my ILs









My husband's family is super dysfunctional (screaming, verbal and emotional abuse)...Our last visit my MIL was holding my sleepy, hungry baby while it was crying and fussing, all the while saying "doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother you" (so she could continue holding hte baby). I was like "ummm...yeah. Does bother me though..."









My MIL is a super sweet lady and I know she would lay down her life for my children...however, I always dread visits to their house b/c it is SO different than our own.

My thoughts go out to you--strength and finding the right words and minimal toe-steppin' on for you


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

s I went through this at SIL's wedding when my DS was 6 months-ish old. I knew very, very few people there, and just was *not* comfortable with wierd people I didn't/don't know passing my DS around. At one point DH's step-sister came and took DS and just poof! dissapeared. I was *not* amused. I found her, took my son back and refused to hand him off again for the rest of the time. DH didn't really understand, and neither did his family ("we're all family here, so whats the problem? Nobodys going to hurt him..."), but they could mostly tell by my looks after that that if *they* didn't want a frigging scene to leave me and DS the heck alone! And they did. And I just hung out with DH's old friends (who, I'll be honest, I don't think were actually invited, but they came and were folks I knew so *I* at least was thankful they were there!!) and then I left. Way early.

ETA: Oh and be aware of folks reaching out and grabbing at your DC if you do have them slinged... DS was in a frigging mei tei at the wedding and at least two people literally reached out and GRABBED DS' legs/arms while I was walking by. The one guy came very, very, very close to getting slugged.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Normally, I agree with this sentiment, but it sounds as though the people at this particular gathering are known child abusers.

Exactly. I passed my little man around when he was just six weeks old. But if someone gave me a bad vibe, they didn't get to hold him. I tried never to be selfish with my babe, because I do understand how wonderful he is to hold (







), but I always reserved the right to say no. And if the OP doesn't want people who beat their children with belts holding her baby, I'd say that's pretty understandable...


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Is your marriage strong enough for you to simply refuse to go back? Your children do not need that.
I remember an awful visit with my ILs when DS was 5mo and a car ride where he screamed and screamed because he was so exhausted and overstimulated..and I cried and cried...and then I put my foot down.
Sorry your Easter was so stressful Mama


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann* 
My DH totally shuts down as soon as we pull in, and I don't blame him, his childhood was so horrific. Him and his brothers sit and reminesce (sp?) about it and it is so awful. This time I heard about how FIL killed their puppy in front of them because they weren't taking care of it well enough. My DH was 5 at the time and he didn't do it in a quick way uke I also heard about one time when some of the boys were mending fences and they lost a tool. They had two minute intervals to find it and every two minutes that went by without it being found, they were beat with a driving whip







Why did these people have children??? My husband did say that we are not staying there again so at least that was gained...












Are you freaking kidding me????

My question to you is, why the hell are you letting your child anywhere near these people? EVER???

OMG. There is absolutely no way they would get their hands on my children, or even speak to them. NO WAY.








to you for your awful experience. But seriously, keep your sweet baby away from these UAVs. Please. Your poor dh and his brother, to have memories like those.







:


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## Stephenie (Oct 11, 2007)

I am so sorry you had to deal with all of that!


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

:

Im glad your home safe and im so sorry you and your family are in such a complicated situation.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

How horrendous! Looks like your mama instincts are right on the button with these awful people -- I'm glad you're learning to listen to that inner voice that tells you to stay away and keep your kids away.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm not clear on why you still visit these people. Let your dh go alone, or you two can go together, but stay in a motel and meet them for dinner at a restaurant. Honestly? I am more freaked out about your two older kids because exposed to all that crap than the baby being passed around a few times.


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## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

No way would I bring children to that house again. See them on neutral ground, allow them to visit you for a few hours but no more overnights or visiting at their house where things seem to get out of control very fast.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Wow that is incredible. I am so sorry you have to deal with that. Read back over what you wrote - hopefully it will give you strength to just say NO to all of their madness. I think I probably would have just left at some point.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Don't go back. You all may need some counselling around this but seriously - just no. On the plus side, your instincts are good.


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## Leilamus (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
I'm not clear on why you still visit these people. Let your dh go alone, or you two can go together, but stay in a motel and meet them for dinner at a restaurant. Honestly? I am more freaked out about your two older kids because exposed to all that crap than the baby being passed around a few times.









: I'd be really upset and worried about my 6 yo seeing some of the stuff you described. Not that what was happening with the baby was ok either but the 6 yo is more likely to remember this stuff, kwim? I'm glad you and your family are home now!







I wouldn't go back again if I were you, no matter what the circumstances.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Please keep ALL of your children away from those people. Like, forever.

So sorry you had to endure that, mama. Next time your DH wants to visit his family, he can go by himself. But why would he even want to go? Yikes.









Also, get a copy of Susan Forward's book, _Toxic In-Laws_. And get a copy of her book _Toxic Parents_ for your husband.


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## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

WOw. You have really put my in-law complaints in perspective.

You are a strong mama and you CAN refuse to ever take your children there again. You can do it.


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## alisoncooks (Apr 9, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Limabean1975* 
WOw. You have really put my in-law complaints in perspective.

You are a strong mama and you CAN refuse to ever take your children there again. You can do it.

I was just thinking this!!


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

I think I'd tell them to go fly a kite. No way is anyone taking my baby away from me while they are screaming, not over my dead body







Family or not, that is just plain wrong. I'm sorry this happened, but glad you are home. I would strongly start thinking of excuses for reasons you can't see them for the next holiday


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## amethyst08 (Apr 1, 2009)

Kudos to you for not verbally dismantling them!!!! I think it's a wonderful idea to spend time with them without the kids...

Wow... I hope you have someone you can talk to and process this with. Do you have a counselor or pastor that you can work through this with? Also, you did a good job of writing it all down - keep a copy and use it process through the weekend with a counselor...

I'm sure you feel like you were run over by the truck after this experience, I'd encourage you to be kind to yourself this week and take some time to re-set (massage, reiki, chakra/energy balancing). Also, lastly, I'd also encourage you to let go of what happened. You DID keep your children safe, you and hubby both learned a valuable lesson, and you'll be better prepared next time you're asked to bring the kids.

Deep breath. WE think you're a wonderful mother!!

Big big Hug!!!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

You're the mama and you get to decide whether he will be held or not.

Quote:

I love that phrase! It's true though. It's YOUR child and YOU decide who does or does not touch him.
sorry i haven't read all the posts but I wanted to chime in here for a second. There is also a dad involved here and he gets a right to decide if he is going to let his family hold HIS baby also. he has just as much right to decide if he wants to pass the baby as mom.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

That is horrific. I cannot believe there are people who treat children that way. You do not have toh expose your kids to them. They are in no way entitled to be around them. In my opinion, better to not know their grandparents than to be exposed to that s%^t.


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
sorry i haven't read all the posts but I wanted to chime in here for a second. There is also a dad involved here and he gets a right to decide if he is going to let his family hold HIS baby also. he has just as much right to decide if he wants to pass the baby as mom.

Did you read the update? Post #34.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I did but that was not part of the story when those comments were made. I really hate the whole "screw dad the baby belongs to mama" attitude so many people have.

that said these people do sound crazy. why would you guys even take your children into that situation. nothing was gained by going. it would be one thing if a little dicomfort gained a lot by way of family relationships.

but

it sounds like total and complete chaos for everyone!! and it seems like everyone spent all weekend hurting everyone else in so many ways. holy crap.

it is my general theory that if i can't spend time with family in love (it sounds like you brought a lot of conflict and tension with you. and with good reason) then why go at all because you being there is not going to make anything better. its a whorling vortex of doom waiting to happen. Just stay home next time. this sounds like it goes far beyond people wanting to love on the baby. this is just insanity confined to too small a space.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
I did but that was not part of the story when those comments were made. I really hate the whole "screw dad the baby belongs to mama" attitude so many people have.

Well, it was the mama who posted here, so people were addressing her which is why the poster said "you're the mama." I'd bet if dad posted the exact same thing, the responses would have been similar with the "mama" replaced by "dad," "papa," or "parent" The person you quoted ever said anything even remotely close to "screw the dad the baby belongs to mama" but more "screw the people who don't have the baby's best interest in mind because the baby belongs with those that do."


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

You did well considering what you were dealing with.

Why will your dh go back? I know it's complicated, there's a lot of guilt and false duty, but perhaps you need to address this. Stay clear from there, or have the kids come down with some fake virus when it's time for the visit. You do not have to expose your family to this.


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

oh mama... i hope you and your family are never exposed to this toxic family again.

i have to tell you, i think that anything gained by having a relationship with these people is totally overshadowed by the harm it is causing you, your DH and your kids.

i would not continue to participate in this relationship in person. i would send letters (like our christmas update letter) and pictures, but i could not let my kids go there. if it was very important to m DH, i would go with him t o support him, but leave the kids at home (with someone who will love, respect and care for them.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

Wow. I totally would not go back there again, unless I stayed at a hotel, but even then, I'm not sure I'd want my kids to be around these people at all. I think something was gained by this trip. It sounds like your Dh has a better understanding of why you don't want to take the kids there. he also agrees that you shouldn't sleep there again. That's really a step in the right direction. Hugs to you.


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## elisent (May 30, 2006)

Please don't ever visit those people again!!! Let DH go if he has to but tell everyone the kids are sick and the rest of you can't make it.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 









Are you freaking kidding me????

My question to you is, why the hell are you letting your child anywhere near these people? EVER???

OMG. There is absolutely no way they would get their hands on my children, or even speak to them. NO WAY.








to you for your awful experience. But seriously, keep your sweet baby away from these UAVs. Please. Your poor dh and his brother, to have memories like those.







:


Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
(..) Honestly? I am more freaked out about your two older kids because exposed to all that crap than the baby being passed around a few times.


I totally agree.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Goodness gracious. I'm in shock. Yeah, I wouldn't have any more contact with them at all.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

Quote:

Please don't ever visit those people again!!! Let DH go if he has to but tell everyone the kids are sick and the rest of you can't make it.
THIS. Please don't take your children back there again. I'm sorry you had to endure such a traumatic visit.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

I guess... I don't understand why you let the MIL take the baby from you and didn't just tell her NO. Is it just the family politics at work here; your saying no would cause more trouble than it's worth; that kind of thing?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Honestly the whole pass the baby , baby crying and that line of problems seems like the *least* of your troubles. You and dh need to have a serious talk abiout boundries etc with his family. And if you go back you and him need to be united about how he will defend you to hios family, what you will and will not allow and be firm in a routien and such that will allow your kids to stay sane. and for goodness sakes stay in a hotel.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

That sounds awful. ((((((Hugs to you, mama.)))))).

It sounds like you feel really trapped into obligations with this family. They're not even mainstream, though, they are abusive and negligent. You have done the best you can with them, and you don't have to continue trying to make it work. Without regret for the past-- because I imagine you were doing what you felt you could at the time-- I suggest you make a plan for the future that doesn't involve any more visits. Maybe dinners out together, for no more than an hour or so, if you must. But not visits.

You and your husband need to take care of your own children, and protecting them from such extreme dysfunction and abusive behaviors is a part of that. If your husband wants to continue his relationship with his family, he should do that on his own time (not holidays, I might add).


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

And just why WAS the dead cow on the porch???

I think that anyone who did what your FIL did to his children (regarding the dog incident) should be disowned by his children when they're old enough. That's extremely cruel.

I agree with the others who said that you should be more worried about the older children because they'll remember these things. I'm wondering if Grandpa just inspired a future vegetarian in your 6yo.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom* 
I think that anyone who did what your FIL did to his children (regarding the dog incident) should be disowned by his children when they're old enough. That's extremely cruel.

Yes, and the definition of abuse includes harming the pets of the people you are abusing.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

perhaops future family reunions could be a vacation of some sort? like at a retreat center or camp ground? . . . also a decent option for home away from home is to find a KAO. it isn't exactly luxe but its away from the house. or if you have a camper or know someone who can loan you one . . . .you know, in the spirit of freeing up some room for everyone ,. . .

honestly the cow isn't all that disturbing (odd but not entirely disturbing). it is after all a working ranch. they aren't growing them for pets. I walked into a room once and found myself ankle deep in dead headless pheasents. . . saw a couple of deer hanging from my neighbors clothes lines once, walked by a truck at the grocery store with 4 frozen stiff deer . . .welcome to the suburban midwest!







I didn't know thats how they did it on ranches but whatever I guess. you think they would at least do something different if company was coming . . . . but these don't seem like people who put a lot of stock in "company is coming over" decorum.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## aua(TM)?lait (Apr 14, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Limabean1975* 
WOw. You have really put my in-law complaints in perspective.


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## a(TM)?Star (Oct 13, 2005)

Gosh, I'm so sorry. I'd never ever visit them again, you certainly have a million reasons not to.


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## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *♥Star* 
Gosh, I'm so sorry. I'd never ever visit them again, you certainly have a million reasons not to.









ITA! Just wanted to give you a







That sounds awful.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I am speechless..







s to you OP!


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
I'm not clear on why you still visit these people. Let your dh go alone, or you two can go together, but stay in a motel and meet them for dinner at a restaurant. Honestly? I am more freaked out about your two older kids because exposed to all that crap than the baby being passed around a few times.

Honestly, this was what I thought as well. Baby's are resilient (sp), but older children are pretty impressionable. Hold them close. Don't go back if you can work that out.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I, too, am pretty unfazed by the dead cow on the porch. I'm a great big hick that way, I guess. But everything else - yikes!

It's so hard when your spouse has siblings still living with the abusive parents! The consequences of cutting ties are just so much larger. I think that your dh's idea of just not staying there anymore is probably the best way to go at this point in time, even if means a lot of late-night drives to your home or the nearest hotel.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby* 
I'm not clear on why you still visit these people. Let your dh go alone, or you two can go together, but stay in a motel and meet them for dinner at a restaurant. <snip>

This...

I actually was wondering about such a strong response to "pass the baby"... I haven't ever considered sharing my beautiful girl with our family and letting them love her, from day one, to be a bad thing... but when I read the update, I understood immediately all of your trepidations.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann* 
Wow! Thank you all so much for the support. I'm still trying to process everything from this weekend. I'm really confused about many things.

There has always been so much anger in the house, the environment is so negative and draining. The house itself should be condemned. It is dirty, falling apart, and cluttered to the point there are paths throughout the home. I don't even like to sit on the couches or touch the surfaces. It makes it really difficult for supervising little ones. I'm not trying to be shallow here, I really believe that this environment is unhealthy and brings people down.

I am not comfortable with my children being around the language or the violence (even just the references to it, past or present). There are two problems with this though. First, my older children LOVE MIL. Seriously, LOVE her. I think she just has no concept that all the younger ones who don't have a long term relationship don't feel the same way. She treats the bigger kids (grandkids) really well. Second, I have issues with how she treats the little guys and knowing what she has done to her own children as well as what she allowed from FIL. Even though she has never done anything to my older kids, I know she didn't protect my DH from his father and committed abuse herself. *That makes me uncomfortable leaving my babies in her presence.*

FIL is a very very scary man. The things he did to my DH and his siblings make me want to throw up. I think my husband has many issues left over from this treatment, but I also see him trying to earn love from him.

My DH has six brothers, the youngest is 16 and a sister who just turned 9. I found out while we were there that his 18 yo brother who is still in HS has now moved out to get away from it all. So now its his sister, 16yo brother and a 24 yo brother living at home. The 24 yo was hit by a car when he was 17 and has brain damage from it. The rest of the siblings are out of the house. The 18yo is graduating next month and DH says we will go, but we will not be staying there. There are no hotels within an hour of IL's so it will require some extra work, but I am all for it.

I haven't heard the entire story, but it seems that the fight in the early morning between BILs and FIL was over one BIL asking FIL not to yell with all the kids in the house, which escalated into a "You think you are a better father than me" argument. All the brothers are very close and while we are the only ones who are AP and GD, they all recognize that the home is not a healthy place for children.

I know this is a choppy, rambling post. I'm still trying to work through all of this. Its just a hard situation. It has honestly never been as bad as it was this last weekend. I have a very hard time saying no to people and standing up for myself, but if this was a normal visit, we would not have been there.

Thanks for listening

[Bolding mine]

I can't tell from your wording -- you don't leave your children in this woman's presence, do you?


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

I think she meant it made her uncomfortable to be out of the room to go to the bathroom or get a drink or whatever when they are visiting, not that she leaves her children with the ILS as regular childcare or anything.

It sounds like mental illness, honestly. The hoarding, the dirt, the behavior, the language.

ETA - We cross posted.

Do you want to accept their money? Can they afford to be giving gifts like that? If the house is as ramshackle as I'm imagining it... well, their moey could be very tight is all I'm saying. But then is it incredibly rude to not accept the gift, and would just create more issues?


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I don't think $1000 quite covers the pain and suffering that man has caused you, let alone your poor DH.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

hmm. many dysfunctional parents like to use $$ as a way to "make up for" their transgressions, and also to use it as a leash of sorts to try and continue to control/influence the behavior of their adult children. I'd be leery of accepting their $$ til i knew what that "gift" entailed...

your experience BTW sounds utterly horrible. I'm sorry you had to deal with all that, and even sorrier for your dh as a kid


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

How nice that they gave you a gift. you can use it to rent a camper the next time you have to go visit them


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

OMG.







that is awful and i'm very happy you will never be returning. as sad as that all sounds, that's how a family was raised back then







my grandmother's stories sound familiar.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jojo F.* 
as sad as that all sounds, that's how a family was raised back then









That's how some abusive, dysfunctional families were raised back then. I certainly don't think this was par for the course in our parents' day. (Not to mention that this is how the OP's *DH* was raised -- _our_ generation! It's not like this was 100 years ago, not that that would excuse the abuse.)


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Krystal323* 
hmm. many dysfunctional parents like to use $$ as a way to "make up for" their transgressions, and also to use it as a leash of sorts to try and continue to control/influence the behavior of their adult children. I'd be leery of accepting their $$ til i knew what that "gift" entailed...

your experience BTW sounds utterly horrible. I'm sorry you had to deal with all that, and even sorrier for your dh as a kid










The above as well as so much of what the OP has posted sounds so much like my husband's family.

My ILs definately used money as a control over their kids. My husband now describes it as "keeping me in want" as they would hand out money that enable him (DH) to have luxuries but then turn around and threaten to cut off the cash flow whenever he didn't tow the party line.

When my DH broke from his family, FIL said something along the lines of "without the money we give you, she (meaning me) won't love you anymore."

HA! little did they know we were squirreling away "escape money" and I had a job that supported both of us. (DH worked in the family business at that time.)

OP - must you go to the brother's graduation?

Is it possible for your DH to have a heart to heart with the brother and explain to him how difficult it is on you and the kids to be in that environment?


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