# The Bible says to do it



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I had someone say this to me today as a justification for why she spanks her 2yo. She said it was the right thing to do as long as it was done with love.









I am totally ignorant about what the Bible says. I was not brought up in a Christian home and have never read nor learned about the Bible, so I don't know what it says or if/when it's literal vs. figurative. Can someone who is knowledgeable about the Bible tell me how to respond to this? Maybe there's something I can refer to that contradicts this statement or some explanation of how that verse is misinterpreted.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

Here is a good article that addresses the "rod verses" in the Bible

http://www.gentlemothering.com/articles/rodstudy.php

Many Christian leaders warp the verses (having bad translations of the Hebrew words doesn't help, either.)

db


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

can you imagine Jesus hitting a child? This is what I say to people who load me down with that crap...


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## pageta (Nov 17, 2003)

A rod was used to gently guide the sheep, not strike them. Have you ever seen someone beating a sheep? They're very gentle animals, not the type that you would ever strike.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Jesus paid the price for our wrong-doings, so that we no longer have to punish each other. Instead of issuing our concept of "justice" we can respond with grace. Jesus intends for christians to live this way with each other -- graciously -- and "each other" includes our children.

Jesus also taught us about true "discipline" by teaching us how to "make disciples." Jesus guided the people in his care (his disciples) gently, teaching them and forgiving them.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Dr. Sear's Christian Parenting Book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books) answers that question fairly well.

In addition, I do not know what faith community your friend belongs to, but I know that in the Catholic faith you are *supposed* to do what your conscience tells you, even if it means "disobeying" the Bible. Hiding behind another is not acceptable to excuse personal wrongdoing.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pageta*
A rod was used to gently guide the sheep, not strike them. Have you ever seen someone beating a sheep? They're very gentle animals, not the type that you would ever strike.

I had to laugh here... I used to raise sheep and if you were the type to hit an animal....sheep are really dumb animals. I didn't hit them though. The mental image of chasing one down is a little silly. I like what the PP said about Jesus hitting children.

Jesus said "let the little chilren come to me." The following sentance was not "so that I can beat the crap out of them!"


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Ephesians 6

1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Exod 20:12

3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Exod 20:12

4 *And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath*


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Great information everyone. Thanks so much.

Momto l&a, I think the first verse (?, I'm totally ignorant) you quoted is part of the problem with her. She went on and on about how children need to obey and sometimes had to be spanked in order to make them obey. Can you interpret what you have written? I don't know what any of those mean?


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

The Bible tells *children* to obey their parents but it doesn't tell parents to force their children to obey.

This is so important, G-d lets us chose to follow, He doesn't beat us if we don't behave perfectly. To beat a child into submission is nothing accomplished.

Debra Baker


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

DB, I really like how you worded that! Isn't that something to think about?

God lets us CHOOSE to follow.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I'm Christian. I don't spank. Am I a bad Christian?








Th Bible is meant to be interpreted symbolically. The rod is symbolic of gentle correction and guidance- even "discipleship"Hence- the word discipline!
It's a real load of crap...IMO. Just another reason to justify hitting poor innocent souls.


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## Magnoliamama (Apr 20, 2004)

I can recall the members of my church and my mother in my childhood quoting some piece of scripture in the Old Testament that says something that is interpreted as "spare the rod, spoil the child." I don't think this quote is in the Bible exactly like this, but I think some folks like to throw this one around as an excuse to physically hit and/or beat their children. That's what my mom did! She even said that since the Bible had the word "rod" that was why she could beat us with sticks or other objects -- because, hey, look at that, the Bible says I can and should hit my children with sharp, hard, or pointy objects. Perhaps that's why I can remember being spanked when I was 6 or 7 years old with the shovel from a fireplace set (oh, and my 3 year old sister was also spanked in the same setting with this shovel), and regularly being sent to the yard to pick out the stick from a tree for my own spanking throughout my childhood. Hallelujah! How loving is that? And she would quote that convoluted scripture regularly and smugly, like she was being backed by the Lord and all of heaven when she would beat us. If my stepdad said anything to her about the violence or intensity of her spankings, she would just scream that scripture at him. All it did was teach me to be afraid, VERY VERY AFRAID, of my mother. Not to honor or obey her in the Lord (whatever that means). There is nothing loving about spanking or hitting children whatsoever. Oh, unless the person believes in the sick part that comes after the spanking, when the parent, feeling a release of the anger and frustration they had been previously feeling, searches out the child and gives them lots of hugs and cuddles, and justifies the spanking. Now that's some people's definition of loving, but that's truly sick. It's a sign of being completely out of touch with their own emotions and a complete inability to control their actions.

A couple of pp's have given some good information with websites that refute this interpretation of the scriptures. They are worth a look if you get into a debate about this with someone.

When I have talked to people about this, I usually say that the Bible doesn't condone physical punishment of children, and reference the conflicting passages about discipline and the use of the word "rod." I usually go on to say that hitting children is the equivalent of an adult temper tantrum, and it's just not fair to take out anger and frustration on them. There is no way to deliver a loving spanking -- that is nowhere in the Bible. And hitting by nature is a result of anger, not of love. That's completely contrary language that people have created to hide behind (some unknowingly) and to refuse to figure out different strategies that will work for them and their children.

Sorry....this struck a nerve.


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## DarkHorseMama (Mar 8, 2003)

BDM sounds like you could use a hug







Here's one from my inner child to yours.


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## mike (Sep 5, 2005)

Tell ok sounds good lets do all the other things it says to do stone to death women who wear mens clothing, homosexuals, and any one who works on the sabeth. and for a true test of there faith have them drink poison and be biten by the serpent and live just like the bible sugest to do.


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## mike (Sep 5, 2005)

I dont think you are suposed to consider it symbolical nor do I know what it symbolical of if it is. That just dosnt make any sence. ofcource why do people think the bible is such a good book. It has more mean things in it than loving. If I were to do everything the bible says I would successfully eleminate atleast 90% of the world population.


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## MotherWhimsey (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pageta*
A rod was used to gently guide the sheep, not strike them. Have you ever seen someone beating a sheep? They're very gentle animals, not the type that you would ever strike.

That is exactly what I tell people who give me the "spare the rod spoil the child" thing. I say what about "thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." Does that mean all christians are sedomesochistic cause they find hitting comforting? Yeh, and where are all the beaten sheep?


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## bu's mama (Mar 25, 2004)

Nothing to add but

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my~hearts~light*
...Jesus said "let the little chilren come to me." The following sentance was not "so that I can beat the crap out of them!"









that's great. I can't wait to use that one!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Last I looked, the New Testament supersedes the Old if they are in conflict. Moreover, I think the big question here needs to be asked: What would Jesus do? Would Jesus spank your kid? If not, what the heck are ya doin' it for?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
Great information everyone. Thanks so much.

Momto l&a, I think the first verse (?, I'm totally ignorant) you quoted is part of the problem with her. She went on and on about how children need to obey and sometimes had to be spanked in order to make them obey. Can you interpret what you have written? I don't know what any of those mean?


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

When I was a child, I thought "Spare the rod, spoil the child" was a positive statement meaning you should avoid using the rod and you _should_ spoil the child.







I didn't understand that it was supposed to be cause/effect -- if you spare the rod, then you'll spoil the child.

I'm a pastor in a church that certainly doesn't interpret Scripture to mean that you should physically punish your children. But I've also found that arguing interpretation of Scripture with folks with a different pov is often futile. I, too, would focus on Jesus' example of love and grace for how we are meant to parent.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

The bible says a lot of things that we'd never think of doing in this day and age.


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

www.stophitting.org

this is an organization that is trying to end corporal punishment (in schools and homes) there is a section on why the religious support for spanking is inaccurate - it has perspectives from several different faiths - hope this helps!


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## mamabohl (May 21, 2005)

sorry if I post any repeats, I was researching this a while ago and this is what I found -

http://www.kjsl.com/~lindav/notrain.htm

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...?topic=27085.0

http://www.tulipgirl.com/mt/archives/000636.html

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...e_the_rod.html

http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...le_sayeth.html

http://www.stophitting.com/religion/...thMaterial.php

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv...asp?msg=2706.1

HTH!


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## Avena (May 27, 2005)

thankfully, i was asked to edit my democracy....so let me say this....

as you sow, so shall you reap - think about that for a moment.

causing pain in the world of your child, who is Gods child, HURTS that little person who is just now learning the world.

so, you find justification in the bible....well, who interpretes the words of the bible for you - men throughout history that you never knew and don't know today, or your own heart and mind turned Godward? what does your heart say to you? do you feel good deep down inside your own self when you cause pain in your child? is that really the only way to instruct?

hitting, spanking, slapping, whatever you choose to call it, teaches them a couple of things for sure - that you, in your consciousness, and in your relationship with God, can't figure out a higher more pleasant way to instruct your child, and that hitting is how you deal with difficult communication issues. Jesus didn't spank even when the nice preachers and politicians hammered spikes through his hands and feet to hang him on a cross. no, i don't imagine that you are anywhere near such evil as those against Christ were - or are. I am saying that God is an endless ocean of compassion and if you get a drop and cultivate it big enough you'll find the power hidden in the language of love and understanding that will guide your communications / interactions / relationship with your child away from having to shock him / her with pain.

Children provide us a gift from God, which in most cases today is quickly sqaundered away by us in our unconscious haze- and that is the opprtunity to sow the seeds of love and understanding into the upcoming human race - the chance to give life to the language of love, and to speak the language of love in all your world - do that all the way through your life on earth, what will your child know and remember?

sow love, sow understanding, reap love, reap understanding

oh yeah, there is'nt anything gentle about spanking - gentle is gentle.... gentle discipline is taking the time to reach up to your higher self and find the way to reason with your child, no matter what age, without causing pain.


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## jmhammond (Mar 30, 2005)

I'm a Christian and am not convinced the Bible teaches one way or the other. We're really not sure if we're going to spank or not. It's great to emmulate the Bible and what it teaches, but there are some things the Bible just doesn't say YES or NO about. Like whether we should have a SUV or a hybrid!







But sometimes you make a judgement, like what many of the PP said about how Jesus might handle a situation.

The Bible teaches the perfect standard for life, the Holy Spirit guides our decisions. You have to use these in tandom. I'm not making a lot of sense, but it really bothered me that it seems like your friend just used the Bible as a crutch for why she spanks, and this is tough for me to swallow. I hope she has made a really informed and prayerful decision about this with her DH that it's what is the appropriate way to punish (I HATE that word) her kids.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Off topic:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmhammond*
I'm a Christian and am not convinced the Bible teaches one way or the other. We're really not sure if we're going to spank or not.

If you start out with the determined goal to never spank, you will have a far easier time learning better tools for dealing with problem behavior than if you allow spanking to be a fallback option.







Spanking is the lazy way out, the last resort of frustration. There are posts in this forum about people who started by spanking years ago finally stopped and are still having trouble not returning to their former ways. If you never spank, you will never have trouble stopping spanking.


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## HappyHSer (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:

If you start out with the determined goal to never spank, you will have a far easier time learning better tools for dealing with problem behavior than if you allow spanking to be a fallback option.
That is absolutely my experience. It's also my personal observation that people who adopt or embrace one or two tools (such as spanking, time outs, loss of unrelated privileges) fail to broaden their tool box and end up punishing more than they'd like too.

I've found that adopting effective positive discipline has made me parent more intentially and more effectively.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan*
Spanking is the lazy way out, the last resort of frustration.









Dh says that spanking a child is a parent's temper tantrum. When you're out of ideas, full of frustration, you lash out...just like a toddler who just c.a.n.n.o.t. get that star shape into the star hole....and you hit. Except the main difference, the child has no better tools (yet) in which to deal with the frustration, and as an adult, our job is to Give Them The Tools, not model their own behavior!







for my dh!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Here are several links regarding 'spare the rod' biblical references.

http://www.stophitting.com/religion/christian/

And regarding Parenting in Jesus' Footsteps:

www.ParentinginJesusFootsteps.org

HTH, Pat


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire* 
Last I looked, the New Testament supersedes the Old if they are in conflict. Moreover, I think the big question here needs to be asked: What would Jesus do? Would Jesus spank your kid? If not, what the heck are ya doin' it for?

Can you point me to this? My uber religious family is always on us about circ and gd because of old testament. Any to back it up?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alamama* 
When I was a child, I thought "Spare the rod, spoil the child" was a positive statement meaning you should avoid using the rod and you _should_ spoil the child.

"spoil" is what happens to food when it's left on the shelf for too long. I don't intend to let that happen to my kids!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DebraBaker* 
The Bible tells *children* to obey their parents but it doesn't tell parents to force their children to obey.

This is so important, G-d lets us chose to follow, He doesn't beat us if we don't behave perfectly. To beat a child into submission is nothing accomplished.

Debra Baker

That's so great.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 

Jesus said "let the little chilren come to me." The following sentance was not "so that I can beat the crap out of them!"









Can't wait to use that one.


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## purple_kangaroo (Feb 20, 2006)

Some good points made here. Also check out this recent thread on the topic of the Bible and spanking.


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