# How comfortable are you with a sexually active teen?



## mamakarata

Curious as to how others feel about this seemingly touchy subject. My dd is 16 and has been dating a boy for 6 months. After years of sex talks with her, we now allow her boyfriend to spend the night.

It is really hard for many parents to deal with this. Especially the parents of her closest friends.

I can write a chapter to attest to her excellent grades and positive characteristics, and aspirations, which I find myself listing off in my head in all of those "would be" confrontations of the above mentioned parents.

But even that isn't completely relevant in my mind. Our relationship has allowed me to have an understanding with who she is and why she feels ready and willing to accept the responsibility of being sexually active.

And at this point, we had to ask ourselves, would it be less self respecting that she must sneak to find a place in the back of a car or who knows where, or to allow her the freedom and privacy (along with plenty of protection) to be safe in her own home?

Fortunately, the boyfriends mom feels the same way, and they are both very happy and content! I am, quite frankly, happy for her!

Is that so strange?

I will only add that we don't allow drugs or alcohol at all as it clouds the judgment and is a major deal breaker for allowing ANY friends over.

As the saying goes "pick your fights carefully" and for us that is firm boundary.


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## kittywitty

You allow her bf to spend the night? For me that would be way too weird. Honestly, you are condoning statutory rape, and I don't know the legal reprecussions should (god forbid) something ever happen. Can you really sleep at night thinking about what freaky things are going on in there?

I spent the night with male friends when I was your dd's age and even younger. But we weren't doing anything together, and their parents were there and we could not sleep in the same room and were watched, which I didn't mind at all.

So, yes, I think it's strange. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my own children in that situation even if they were 30 and married, though.









I wanted to add that my ex's mom let me stay the night. I had my first dd at 16 (born at 17). Though it could have happened anywhere, technically, it was a thousand times less likely in our case. She also let her youngest dd have bfs spend the night which weirded me out once I had kids of my own.

And though I'm sure your dd's friends think you are the coolest mom ever for allowing it, it isn't because of your great communication. I remember those days. Though every teen is different...but I can't blame their parents for being concerned. I mean, can you blame them for thinking that if their kids spend the night you won't let all of their bfs spend the night and do things they do not condone?

Luckily I am not to the sex conversation with my own kids, but my brothers who I practically raised are teens (12-17) and I talk to them about it. I just think our society is over-sexed in a bad way that teens are pressured into being sexual beings before they are ready and used by boys, not to mention STDs which birth control and condoms just don't cover all of. I would be extremely disappointed in my kids and brothers if they took any of the risks I did when I was younger. And I was the prude of the bunch (which is saying something)and thought I knew my stuff! But if I knew half then what I do now....


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## mamakarata

yeah, sex is "pretty freaky!"


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## the_lissa

My partner and I have talked about it and have reached similar conclusions as you mamakarata.

dnw- how is the op condoning statutory rape


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## Kat_shoshin

My opinion is - they are going to do it anyways - why not safe and sober in your house than drunk in the woods?

I always had an open relationship with my mom and she knew when I was ready to have sex. I responsibly discussed and used B/C (the pill) and condoms. I was 18 and very level headed. I didn't do it my mom's house, but then, my b/f had a bigger home and a car. We dtd in his bedroom with the hockey game on loud.

My mother allowed by sister's bf to move in when they were 15 and 17. She received a lot of criticism for this from family and friends, but my sister was not me. When not at home, my sister could be found drunk and/or stoned at stranger's apartments in the city, when found at all. My mother moved him in, partly because he was having a hard time at home, and partly because he called my sister down and when she was with him, my mother knew where she was.

For my family, my sisters and I were very different, and my mother did what she thought was best for us, when she could, and what she had to do to survive when she was left with little choice. I will keep communication as open as I can with my child. I think that when my son is of a certain age, I will allow him and his friends privacy in his room.

And I will hope he has the radio loud enough that we don't hear.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 

dnw- how is the op condoning statutory rape

Statutory rape is sex with a minor. If you are having her bf spend the night, then the 5-O might see that as condoning it. And she never stated the bf's age.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
yeah, sex is "pretty freaky!"

If you do it like I did at that age it is. Or maybe even today.







:









Hey, you asked what I thought, I told you from my experiences.


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## the_lissa

Well, I guess it depends on where the person lives. I thought 16 was the age of consent in most states. It is 14 here.


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## kittywitty

14??? Yeah, not in the states. Maybe Arkansas. But I think even that has an age limit with the age of the partner-i.e. the bf over the age of 16, 18, whatever.


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## the_lissa

Yes, but is 16 not the age of consent in most states? And I did not get that the bf was older.


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## kittywitty

Average age here in the states is 18. Even Arkansas is 16 with some exeption (close age of partner?) for down to 14. We don't know how old he is by what she told us. That's why I went on the info I was given. Here is Wikipedia's take:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of...ica#California

California
The age of consent is 18, with defense if the minor has less than 3 years of difference with the major. Penalties increase if the minor is under 16 and the major is above 21.

Texts :

California Penal Code - Part 1. of crimes and punishments -
Title 9. of crimes against the person involving sexual assault, and crimes against public decency and good morals
Chapter 1. Rape, abduction, carnal abuse of children, and seduction. - Section 261.5.

(a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the perpetrator, if the person is a minor. For the purposes of this section, a "minor" is a person under the age of 18 years and an "adult" is a person who is at least 18 years of age.
(b) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is not more than three years older or three years younger than the perpetrator, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is more than three years younger than the perpetrator is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
(d) Any person 21 years of age or older who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is under 16 years of age is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years.


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## sibelius

i definitely would not be comfortable with that. no way. at 16? i remember being 16, and as mature as they think they are, they don't have a clue. my mother is doing something similar with my 19 yr old sister (who at least is legal), and i find it very strange, if not appalling. it seems to me that the same argument is being used to justify allowing mature and immature teens to have sex at home. makes absolutely no sense to me. sex is not just recreation. there are pretty serious consequences, both physical and emotional, that no amount of birth control can prevent. most girls that i know regret having had sex too soon. i have yet to meet someone who regrets having waited.


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## Aliviasmom

Considering Alivia is only 2.5...I'm answering on what I *hope* I will do.

I really would prefer my child to be sexually active in a comfortable environment...my house. I don't want my child(ren) to lose their virginity in the back of a hatchback Geo Metro (







). Sex is SOOO much better when you are in a comfortable environment. Not saying that sex in a car is ALWAYS bad...it just shouldn't be your only option.

Also, I want birth control to be a thought of, talked about, and PRACTICED action in my house. I don't want it to be anything dangerous, or permanent. But, I am willing to take my child to the doctor for a prescription, or purchasing condoms, etc.

ETA: Sixteen DOES seem young. But by the time I turned 16, I had already had 2 partners. By the time I turned 16.5, I had another partner, and was pregnant. It really depends on the kid. If our parents TALKED to us about doing it (instead of just telling us NOT to) and if EITHER of them had talked to us about birth control, chances are, we would have taken them up on the offer. We didn't WANT to get pregnant, but we wanted to have sex. We lived in separate towns and neither of us drove. We relied on our parents for all transportation, and both moms went through our rooms. Even if we would have WALKED to pick up condoms, then chances are, they would have been found and then we would have been prevented from seeing each other. I also lived about 30+ minutes from the closest Planned Parenthood, so I couldn't get a prescription for the pill.


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## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kat_shoshin* 
My opinion is - they are going to do it anyways - why not safe and sober in your house than drunk in the woods?

I am not too keen on the "they are going to do it anyway" line of thinking. Some kids will....some will not. I think if you keep the temptations down (such as lots of alone time) it is easier for teens to say no to things such as sex. Does it prevent it all the time? Nope. Is it something they may choose anyway? Yep.

I never had sex with anyone other than my spouse...though we didn't wait for marriage. I have never tasted beer in my almost 34 years on the earth and I didn't learn what marijuana even smelled like until I was in my 20's. The idea that everyone is doing it doesn't give teens enough credit in their ability to control themselves if they so choose to.


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## Bestbirths

I voted after marriage. I feel like we are very liberal in many areas but in our culture (just our nuclear family) we have certain beliefs about how we were going to raise our children and one of them goes almost back to the judeo christian values which goes back to the jewish and muslim type values that consider (not that our girls are property-that sounds really not politically correct...yikes) but more that they belong to our family, to us as parents, and it is highly disrespectful to talk to our daughter on the phone, ask her to date, etc. without our permission or consent. It's like stealing to do that in our opinion. We want our daughters to focus on school and their education like at our oldest dd's age now which is 13. We believe that dating is in preparation for a lifelong commitment to that one person you want to make a life and raise children with. The traditional marriage ceremony we use is the father and mother giving the bride away to the groom, as if to say, we have taken care of our child and now we are entrusting her care to you. It is very special and sacred to us. To be sexually active before marriage would be giving this special part of yourself away, and bypassing the giving respect to the parents and the part we take in that process. Part of this process is a protection, and there is more safety and security in doing things this way we think.


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## dealic

My boyfriend lived with our family briefly when I was 17. We were not sexually active at the time, and it was to allow him to have a job and save for college (his parents lived in the country and he didn't have access to a car).

My mom was very open about sex, and put all three of us on birth control when we were ready. She picks up my sisters' pills still (they are in university, and she delivers them when she visits). I hope to be as open, and in some ways more open than her.

Statistics show that a girl is more likely to have an unwanted pregnancy if she has a negative attitude to sex (because, presumably, she is less likely to use reliable, consistant birth control). I would rather my child made an informed descision free from outside pressure from boyfriend/girlfriend/parents I want them to be mature and informed enough to be able to do that. I think it is possible, and I was able to make those descisions at 16, because I was raised to. And FWIW, I chose not to have physical relationships at all at 16. Having the choice intrusted in me didn't make me move faster. If anything, it made me wait longer, because I had the confidence to say no.


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## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dealic* 
Statistics show that a girl is more likely to have an unwanted pregnancy if she has a negative attitude to sex (because, presumably, she is less likely to use reliable, consistant birth control).

Interested in seeing the source for this statistic, please.


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## rere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini* 
I am not too keen on the "they are going to do it anyway" line of thinking. Some kids will....some will not. I think if you keep the temptations down (such as lots of alone time) it is easier for teens to say no to things such as sex. Does it prevent it all the time? Nope. Is it something they may choose anyway? Yep.

Some kids will ,some kids will not.True.But if your kid is telling you I'm going to.Then what?I think that is the situation the OP is talking about.


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## dealic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini* 
Interested in seeing the source for this statistic, please.

Give me time, I will look. It was in a study we looked at in my Human Sexual Behaviour class at university. I think I have a list of references still, but its been about 5 years.... But I work 11 hours tomorrow, so give me a few days.


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## Kirsten

I am really surprised that seven people voted after marriage. I guess I run with a more liberal crowd.

I'd be fine with it - or at least I think I will be. My girls are 11, 7 and 4. A friend with an 18 y.o. dd tells me I'll think differently when they are teenagers. I guess it is possible.

I am of the same thought process as the OP. Kids have sex. They can have it with your knowledge or without. They can have it in your house (even if you don't think they are or you forbid it) or in a car or outside or at the other kid's house.

As long as they are respectful (discreet) and using protection (and of course assuming the boy is nice to her - regardless of how he dresses or what grades he gets or which side of the tracks he is from), I really think I'll be fine with it.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini* 
Interested in seeing the source for this statistic, please.

Me, too. My mom was WAY too open and I had birth control very much so available to me with basically no effort at all.

Now I can see the "abstinence only" research that shows that they are much less educated and the rates for pregnancy and STDs are higher, but we were *very* liberal growing up, and so were my other very active friends.

And from what I hear from my bros and others, things are getting a lot wilder nowadays.


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## angelpie545

This is kind of a difficult one for me. FWIW, I will be teaching my children to wait until marriage to have sex, because I believe that this is the best way. However, I didn't follow that, and my current children know that, b/c they were both conceived with my high school boyfriend. They know that my current dh is not their father, though he has raised them and they call him dad. So, I am not going to be hypocritical and do the whole "do as I say not as I do" thing. I despise that attitude.

If, despite what I tell them, they do choose to have sex outside of marriage, I would ask that they refrain from doing it in the house. I will provide complete and accurate information about birth control, condoms, and STDs to them, and I would never turn them away if they got pregnant, of if any future son of mine impregnants a girl. After all, I got pregnant as a teen and it was the best thing to ever happen to me, so I would support my pregnant daughter in every way I could.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelpie545* 
This is kind of a difficult one for me. FWIW, I will be teaching my children to wait until marriage to have sex, because I believe that this is the best way. However, I didn't follow that, and my current children know that, b/c they were both conceived with my high school boyfriend. They know that my current dh is not their father, though he has raised them and they call him dad. So, I am not going to be hypocritical and do the whole "do as I say not as I do" thing. I despise that attitude.

If, despite what I tell them, they do choose to have sex outside of marriage, I would ask that they refrain from doing it in the house. I will provide complete and accurate information about birth control, condoms, and STDs to them, and I would never turn them away if they got pregnant, of if any future son of mine impregnants a girl. After all, I got pregnant as a teen and it was the best thing to ever happen to me, so I would support my pregnant daughter in every way I could.

I agree. I don't care about waiting for marriage, as I believe in testing the mattress before you buy it







, but I would never encourage them to be as sexually liberal as I was and take the horrible chances I did, but to wait for a very special person. Many people's firsts are horrible experiences, I don't want that for my kids, too. I want it to be something they enjoy and are responsible about. Of course I would have to have a talk with my kids' partners about how if they give my kids STDs or cheat on them, my dh will be whittling with his rifle on the porch.


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## MadWorldSonnet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I am really surprised that seven people voted after marriage. I guess I run with a more liberal crowd.

I am too. Really shocked, actually.

I voted in my home (but preferably not while I was there. I am very liberal, but not so much so that I want to risk hearing it or accidentally walking in on it, lol).

If there is no age difference, but they are under the age of consent (which is very much a double edged sword, btw) then I'm not sure the "5-0" would/could do anything. Assuming they're the same age or very close in age, she could be charged as readily as he for statutory rape.

At 16 I was a mother (and a damn good one, in case you were wondering







), hardly an immature child. Some teens are _very_ immature and irresponsible. Some aren't. I've known teens who paid the bills and raised their siblings or children on their own. Don't tell me they shouldn't have the right to decide when and where to have sex, that's bs.

...anyway, getting off my soapbox here...

To the OP-I think what you're doing is unconventional for sure, but not strange. If it helps you at all, on the rare occasions that my then bf slept over, I'm not sure we even had sex. It was in his car, at a motel, and other places that we had sex. (I think I was too worried about getting caught at my parents house while they were home...that and maybe I felt bad).


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## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
Some kids will ,some kids will not.True.But if your kid is telling you I'm going to.Then what?I think that is the situation the OP is talking about.

Telling me they are interested in actually having a sexual relationship is much different than the assumption kids will do it anyway.

If my children come to me and want to start a sexual relationship as a teen, then we will have a discussion and go from there. I really can't say exactly how it would go as I haven't BTDT. I am open with my kids about sex and I will be equally open with them about my concerns/opinions about sex as a teen. Honestly, we already talk about some of this stuff anyway....depending on which child it is.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
At 16 I was a mother (and a damn good one, in case you were wondering







), hardly an immature child. Some teens are _very_ immature and irresponsible. Some aren't. I've known teens who paid the bills and raised their siblings or children on their own. Don't tell me they shouldn't have the right to decide when and where to have sex, that's bs.

So was I. But I certainly was not your conventional teen (except, apparently when it came to sex!). But no, I don't think that every teen should have the right to mate anywhere, anytime. Becoming a parent and facing the responsibilites most teens never have to know is a lot different than your average teen who knows everything.


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## Bestbirths

UGGGH. I do not like the pill. I think it causes health problems. If my daughter was going to do go against all of our beliefs and values and become sexually active anyway, I would put her on birth control other than the pill, not sure what, and teach her safe sex (already talked about safe sex). The only thing is, I am not sure what kind of birth control would be safe for a mercury toxic chelating, young 13 year old and up girl, that doesn't take a lot of maturity to use, etc.

I have some friends that automatically put their children on the pill at age 12 and then act like this whole sex thing gives them no worries. At least the teen pregnancy part.


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## sunnysideup

mamakarata, it sounds like you have a wonderful, loving and respectful relationship with your daughter. I love to hear about close relationships between moms and teen daughters--you hear so many of the horror stories.

My oldest is 14. Right now, she's still far from being ready for a sexual relationship. But... so much changes so quickly at this age. It's hard for me to answer the poll because my comfort level would depend greatly on my perception of the relationship.


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## intorainbowz

Not in my house.

I plan on teaching abstinance until marraige, fidelity after. Call me a fundie, but that's what I believe. That does not mean I am sexually uptight repressed or naive. HARDLY.

I'd like to spare my daughter a teen pregnancy and my unborn son STDs.

I will educate them about sex, teach them how their bodies were made to feel good, and that is a wonderful God given blessing. Because for me it is a blessing from the Lord.

I plan to teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. That does not mean I support it. I frankly see allowing a sexual partner to spend the night with a 16 year old permissive to the nth degree, and not something which will happen in my home. Old enough and mature enough to have sex, old enough to afford a hotel room.


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## Bestbirths

I forgot to add, I would be upset if my children have children before they finish chelating the mercury, lead, and other toxic heavy elements out of their bodies first. It would be irresponsible, with the knowledge we have now to do so. So the whole being sexually active thing before chelation is another issue.


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## BMG580

I am somewhere in the middle on this issue. I think sex is a natural part of being a human being and different people are ready at different ages just like any other part of human development. I believe I will be realistic about my childrens' desire to have sex in their teen years- I know I wanted to have it when I was 16/17!

With that said, I will place a huge emphasis during sex education discussions in the preceeding years about what a wonderful aspect sex is of a committed, stable relationship. I will stress how important I think having an emotional committment to your partner is prior to engaging in a sexual/physical relationship.

So, if my daughter at 16 wanted to have a sexual relationship I would try and help her be as educated and safe as possible to make choices to prevent unwanted pregnancy and STDs. I just don't think I could go as far as facillitating the sex in my own home, though! *I* wouldn't be comfortable with a boyfriend sleeping over with her at age 16 so it just wouldn't happen.


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## MadWorldSonnet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Becoming a parent and facing the responsibilites most teens never have to know is a lot different than your average teen who knows everything.

I understand that. But I was very mature and responsible before I became a mother as well, and I hold to my beliefs that yes, it was my right to have sex as a 15 year old. I didn't need that emancipation to let me do what I wanted with my body.


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## lanamommyphd07

I answered "other", because when I parented a sexually active teen who I had a very open and honest relationship with, I came up with some crafty ways to cultivate her development but still maintain some ability to "keep rank" in the house. I gave her books on sexuality, positions for intercourse, masturbation, etc. I encouraged her to do "everything but" as she would learn more about her body and whoever she was with that way. Intercourse is just too simple.
I would tell her that I would be away for the afternoon, say to a meeting, or work, or a class or something, and my partner was also away from the home. I figured, what she did with that time (sneak her boyfriend in a for a couple of hours, binge on the TV, whatever) was up to her. She was aware that we had rules in the house about no friends when she was alone, but when I discovered the bathroom seat up once, I didn't mention it, just checked in with her on condom supply and such. I also found a joint in her room once, but I didn't bust her--merely dumped some cayenne pepper in and re-rolled it. Let's just say--today, she is a very successful college student who has not become pregnant or picked up any std's, and has this strange aversion to pot.


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## Kirsten

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
Not in my house.

The trouble is that - unless you are in the same room with them 24/7 - you cannot control whether or not your teen has sex in your house. You can tell them not to, forbid it, say it is against your family values/religion/etc. But in the end, your dc still makes that choice.

In high school, I'd guestimate that 70+% of my friends were having sex. Some parents knew, others didn't. Some were ok with it, others weren't. But the ones who weren't ok with it didn't necessarily line up with the kids who weren't having sex. Sometimes just the opposite - and I think in an attempt to define their individuality.


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## Bestbirths

OK now I am going to really probably freak you out with another thing to think about before you procreate.

I am serious about believing that you should chelate before trying to conceive children.

In our family, which is not unlike most families probably, we have generations of vaccinations, mercury fillings, and in general stupidity (my ancestors visited the nuclear test sites, teledyne, for fun, I kid you not). So, I am watching the worlds worst disaster show on discovery and see that the very teledyne place had a nuclear disaster and didn't inform the public, they were still there watching the cranes move stuff "for fun", and I was like, gee, that was probably my family right there. Any how. By the time these generations go by, enter me having my kiddo's with a mouth chock full of mercury fillings. I didn't vax my kids, except the first. I nursed them and passed toxins through the breastmilk, and probably did major dumps of toxins to them during pregnancies. I didn't get them any mercury fillings, or the youngest four any vaxes, but my children have high levels of mercury, lead and other toxic heavy elements on their hair tests which means they are excreting these toxins from their bodies because it is coming out in their hair.

The best way to do a toxin dump, (in this I am kidding) is to have a pregancy. The toxin load, many believe the mother does a major dump to the fetus. Anyhow, explains in another way besides vaxing only why you have autism and illness rates on the rise. I have talked to our naturopath about this and seen my children's hair tests and we are not comfortable keeping this level of toxins in their bodies, let alone not warning them of the dangers of having children before chelation, not that I wouldn't help them pay to chelate my future grandchildren, but YK? I don't want my teenager to get pregant before she undergoes chelation, and I am serious. Am I like the freaky only one who thinks of these things?


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## MadWorldSonnet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
The trouble is that - unless you are in the same room with them 24/7 - you cannot control whether or not your teen has sex in your house. You can tell them not to, forbid it, say it is against your family values/religion/etc. But in the end, your dc still makes that choice.

Amen. My mother looked down her nose at my friends mother who let her 16 year old's BF move in with them. My bf lived about an hour away. Guess who was having more sex? Me. Guess who got pregnant 1st? Me. I had sex all the time in my parents house, but to this day I don't think they have any idea....

Bestbirths, by condoning or condemning your child in regards to premarital sex (or sex in the home, etc) you're not going to prevent or encourage her to get pregnant. So, as interesting as it is, it's kind of a moot point. (and I do agree with you on a certain level about doing a cleanse prior to conceiving, but that's in a perfect world)


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## dealic

Lagana, L (1999) Psychosocial Correlates of Contraceptive Practices during Late Adolescence. _Adolescence_, 34, 463-482.

I can't actually pull that study, and I can't find my course notes right now (the actual study) but my textbook references that study as finding a positive correlation between sex positive attitudes and effective use of contraceptives. The same study is also referenced in finding a negative correlation between conservative religiosity/opposition to abortion and effective and consistent contraceptive use, an inverse relationship between age of first intercourse and pregnancy rate, and (possibly obviously) a positive relationship between knowledge of contraception and effective use of contraception.

I am still trying to find a full text version of the study online. I did find the author's homepage, and I can tell you what university she works at, if that is helpful







But I am giving up for the night, as I am sleepy.


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## darkpear

I want my kids to make up their own minds about when, where, why, and with whom to have sex. It's my job to give them all the information necessary to make an informed decision and to do everything in my power to help them protect themselves from disease and unwanted pregnancy. My 4yo loves babies and is curious about where they come from, so she gets age-appropriate information. That will continue. Condoms will be available in the bathroom at some point - I'm not sure when, ask me in a few years







If one of my kids wants other birth control, we'll talk about it and research the pros and cons together, and then I will honor her decision (and take care of the transportation and financial details, if necessary). I will always be available, but I will also respect their privacy and not demand details they're not comfortable sharing.

Childhood is when you learn and practice how to be an adult. I don't think relationships and sex are exempt from that, or ought to be.

And for the record, while I did some stupid reckless things as a sexually active teen, I don't regret those, even the ones that ended painfully. I do regret NOT doing quite a few things, though. Life is short.


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## nonconformnmom

My dd asked me for birth control when she was 15. I was not comfortable with it, but I talked openly with her about it and made sure she had access to both condoms and birth control of her choice. I am not, however, comfortable with her doing it in our home. Call it selfish, I just couldn't handle it. I knew she and her very steady, long term boyfriend were having sex at his house. It was enough of a leap for me to deal with that, much less more.

*For those who said wait until after marriage*: Don't you think it is possible that your child could end up married to someone who is completely incompatible with them, sexually? Don't you think that is an unwise course of action? Heaven forbid they could end up with someone who is a sexual deviant in some way.

I was a virgin when I got married. I was lucky; he and I were compatible. But it could have just as easily gone the other way ....


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## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
Bestbirths, by condoning or condemning your child in regards to premarital sex (or sex in the home, etc) you're not going to prevent or encourage her to get pregnant. So, as interesting as it is, it's kind of a moot point. (and I do agree with you on a certain level about doing a cleanse prior to conceiving, but that's in a perfect world)

Who said anything about condemning in regards to premarital sex? i wouldn't condemn her for wanting to have premarital sex, I would go out and help her get the birth control if she chose to do so. I just recently had a converation with her about letting us know if she wanted to ahead of time so we could set up appointments for the birth control. sigh.


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## darkpear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Who said anything about condemning in regards to premarital sex? i wouldn't condemn her for wanting to have premarital sex, I would go out and help her get the birth control if she chose to do so. I just recently had a converation with her about letting us know if she wanted to ahead of time so we could set up appointments for the birth control. sigh.

I had that conversation with my parents too. I was already sexually active at the time and never did tell them. Never got on the pill till I was older and on my own, either. And my parents were relatively liberal about sex. I was and am a very private person, and I didn't think my sex life was any of their business.

Just food for thought.


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## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
For those who said wait until after marriage[/B]: Don't you think it is possible that your child could end up married to someone who is completely incompatible with them, sexually? Don't you think that is an unwise course of action? Heaven forbid they could end up with someone who is a sexual deviant in some way.

I was a virgin when I got married. I was lucky; he and I were compatible. But it could have just as easily gone the other way ....

Ho boy. Well, we believe that you do not plan a life together with someone you have only known a short time, we believe in courtship periods where all of these important issues are discussed before hand. A length of time where you talk about if you have the same dreams, goals in life, parenting methods, what you think about vaxing, natural medicine, religion, finances, values, everything. Personally I believe the whole sexually compatable thing to be a copout. Why can't the person say if they are sexually deviant during the courtship process?


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## dealic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Why can't the person say if they are sexually deviant during the courtship process?

They may not know, not having the experience to have discovered this about themselves. I've been there, so I am not just being exceedingly hypothetical.


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## Bestbirths

Well, I kind of think that if after you are in a committed relationship, if you both change enough on enough major things like sex would be a major one, like if I told dh today that I decided such and such about the way I wanted or didn't want sex or any other major thing, finances, what i wanted to do with my life being way different than the direction he was going, that might be grounds for going separate ways.


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## doulatara

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
Curious as to how others feel about this seemingly touchy subject. My dd is 16 and has been dating a boy for 6 months. After years of sex talks with her, we now allow her boyfriend to spend the night.

It is really hard for many parents to deal with this. Especially the parents of her closest friends.

I can write a chapter to attest to her excellent grades and positive characteristics, and aspirations, which I find myself listing off in my head in all of those "would be" confrontations of the above mentioned parents.

But even that isn't completely relevant in my mind. Our relationship has allowed me to have an understanding with who she is and why she feels ready and willing to accept the responsibility of being sexually active.

And at this point, we had to ask ourselves, would it be less self respecting that she must sneak to find a place in the back of a car or who knows where, or to allow her the freedom and privacy (along with plenty of protection) to be safe in her own home?

Fortunately, the boyfriends mom feels the same way, and they are both very happy and content! I am, quite frankly, happy for her!

Is that so strange?

I will only add that we don't allow drugs or alcohol at all as it clouds the judgment and is a major deal breaker for allowing ANY friends over.

As the saying goes "pick your fights carefully" and for us that is firm boundary.

I am about to go back and read the whole thread, but I just wanted to tell you I think you are an amazing mom.


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## intorainbowz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
The trouble is that - unless you are in the same room with them 24/7 - you cannot control whether or not your teen has sex in your house. You can tell them not to, forbid it, say it is against your family values/religion/etc. But in the end, your dc still makes that choice.

In high school, I'd guestimate that 70+% of my friends were having sex. Some parents knew, others didn't. Some were ok with it, others weren't. But the ones who weren't ok with it didn't necessarily line up with the kids who weren't having sex. Sometimes just the opposite - and I think in an attempt to define their individuality .

I can and will still set the standard and the expectation. My house, my rules. Don't ask what the consequences will be because DD is 14 months old, and I have no idea what will work for her at that time.


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## mamakarata

Wow. A lot of interesting feed back. Thank you everyone!

I too am amazed at the after marriage votes! I wonder what the statistics of how many people actually succeed at doing this? That is some serious pressure.

I think what was important, was that our decision was based on our daughter alone, and who she is. No time frames, no ideology, no shame, and no judgment.

In our case, she was able to share with me how she felt about her first time. And how it was kind of funny, and what song was playing, and how that is special to them now.

Do I want to walk in on it? No! Not anymore than I want her walking in on me and dh! It's a timing thing. It's just basic courtesy. But like her first step, her first report card, her first award, and even her first kiss, (yes, we even shared that- and I cried), I want to be there for her!

Now, was it easy to make that decision? Not at first. I had all of those societal messages, and critics and shaming voices in my head that came up, and one at a time, i looked at it, considered the source of anxiety (fear) and even actually shared that process with her.

How the pain of growing up in a society that places so much weight on girls' virginity, at the same time as objectifying women. It's a complicated course to navigate through while maintaining your own dignity and self respect.

And I say, B.S! Don't give in to it. When they started dating (and he too is 16 btw) we had many discussions about if she was ready. And the only reason I share this much, is because she and I actually talked about writing a book on our experience to help other parents and teens.

Does she expect she and her boyfriend to "live happily ever after"- not particularly. She loves him as much as 16 yo can love. She plans on college. He doesn't.

It's not realistic for us to think that she shouldn't do what her body is geared to do and wants to do. And to think she should be focusing on finding her life mate! Are we crazy? She's in high school!

Sex doesn't have to be a bad thing. PEOPLE make it a bad thing. In and of itself, it's a GOOD thing!

She has a best friend who's mom basically can't say when she would ever feel comfortable with it (kind of like the first replier from my original post) but only knows she is very disapproving of her having sex at all right now.

And this same girl spends all of her time trying to find ways to be with her boyfriend. She got a job to buy a car so she can get out of the house. She quit her sports to get this job. Her whole focus is on this. And his too. They do it in places and at times you don't even want to know because they have to sneak. He is driving around at 2am to sneak over to her.

Now I don't know about you, but I don't want my kid driving around after midnight, sneaking out, having to put this much effort into having sex! They will find a way. And to instill "sex after marriage" and not think they will come away from their teen years feeling shameful that they wanted it, resented their parents for not getting it, or worse, the guilt when they get it by defying or lying to their parents.

And this girl had always been very close to her Mom. A great student and athlete. Until the issue of sex. They fight about it. It changed their relationship. And i see how much energy and sadness surrounds sex and getting or not getting it.

Now sex has become a BAD thing for her. It holds all of this baggage. It's surrounded in shame, sneakiness, guilt for defying her mom, anger for feeling she is old enough to know what is right for her body. It's positively sad to me.

So there you have it.

Someone replied saying they wouldn't feel comfortable even when their kid was 30. Now it was surely said in jest. But there is nothing original about that joke. It all still alludes to the shame.

Keep voting kids. I am fascinated by the responses.


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## wonderwahine

I'm not the mom of a teen, but i comend you for being such a great mom!

my relationship with my mum was very open and we discussed sex etc. The age of consent in new zealand where I grew up is 16. My mum was very accepting, and even though I was allowed the freedom for birth control and to have sex etc...... i didnt, I personally choose to wait until i found my commited partner, now, thats not to say any sexual activity never went on









I plan to fully inform my son, and any kids i have after him, and id rather it be in my house than a backseat of a car at a lookout point.


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## majikfaerie

Mamakarata,
please, write that book!
I'm totally where you're at on this one...
admittedly, my DD is 4, and when the topic comes up, I always joke that as soon as she hits puberty we're packing her off to a Swiss Boarding School in a full-body cast-iron chastity belt...
but I'm just joking
I think the reality will be something like a lifetime of open and honest communication, and loving support of whatever choices she makes. And of COURSE I'd rather she be consenting, with a partner, safe under my own roof, rather than sneaking around in parking lots and alleyways. Heck, I remember being 16, and how much energy was focused on sneaking around. My parents learned their lesson, by the time my sister reached adolescence, they let the BF move in, and she's the one who stayed in school and went to college...


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
I can and will still set the standard and the expectation. My house, my rules. Don't ask what the consequences will be because DD is 14 months old, and I have no idea what will work for her at that time.

but at what cost?


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## intorainbowz

Cost?

Well from my beliefs, and only my beliefs which I will be teaching DD... her eternal happiness.

As I don't want to be the preachy one here, and I seem to be raining on the its all good parade, I'm out.


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## KMK_Mama

Wow, I think what you are doing is amazing! I hope to have such a close relationship with my children as they grow up. I wouldn't have dreamed of discussing topics such as sex and BC with MY Mom. She did tape magazine articles and stuff related to sex and BC on the fridge, but I think she meant it more for my older brothers than for me. I met my DH at 15, we had sex at 16 (he was 18) and the first time WAS in my room at home, but if my parents had known that, I would have been in BIG trouble. I did go on BC when I was 16, about a month before we had sex for the first time, and my Mom had talked to the doctor before-hand letting him know her concerns. So, she knew I was going to have sex and approved of BC, IF having sex was what I was going to do anyways. It was. The more they told me NOT to have sex, the more I wanted it. The earlier my curfew got, the more I snuck out, etc.

Anyhow, I don't how a Mom goes about having such an open relationship with their teenage daughter, but I hope my DD's and I can. I would like to think I would be OK with allowing my DD to have sex in my home, as long as I thought she was mature enough. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

I am curious though.....do you like her boyfriend? If so, what if you didn't? Would you still allow it??


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## UnschoolnMa

As a former teen parent twice over you can imagine that we've had many sex discussions with our teens over the years. (Starting when they weren't teens lol.) I came from a home where sex was discussed in hushed tones so "little ears" couldn't hear, and where intimacy was treated as though it was dirty and embarrasing. All that made me think that sex was the greatest thing ever in a forbidden fruit kind of way. My mom said "You're too young to worry about sex." or "Don't do it until you are older and hopefully married."

So, armed with that glorious lack of info, raging hormones, and a well developed body I promptly went out and ran right into older men. I was 13. Jesus, what a recipe for disaster that was. The worst part was knowing that, even when I started to feel lost and overwhelmed, I couldn't turn to my Mom.







I got pregnant at 14 with Ds.

I know that was kinda OT, but it directly shaped how I have handled talking about sex with the kids. I've been very open, very willing to help them understand from a biological POV and the more mental/emotional/ personal perspective. No subject or question is off limits. (though I retain the right to some privacy about my own sex life in minute detail, of course. They don't want that info anyway though.







) I wanted them to know about birth control, body parts, diseases, and etc. I have also been very honest about the fact that I hope they will not take the same risks I did, and that I hope they think much more deeply about their sexual decisions than I did. I've been honest that I hope they are older than I was too. (I was 13) I am more comfortable with them having sexual partners at 17 than I would be at 15, but I don't think there is a golden age that I can say _"Yep, that's it."_

Bottom line? I don't care about them being married or not. I care about them being strong in themselves, educated, healthy, safe, and respected. What I want most is for them to be fully in control of their sexual decisions when the time comes, and to have far fewer regrets than I do. As far as when? Well, Ds is 16 and has never dated. Dd is going on 14 and isn't there yet either. By the time I was those ages I was a parent and working on #2. So far so good. If they start a sexual relationship and I have any concerns I'd share them just like I would about anything else. I see little reason to banish my sexually active teen to somewhere else to be intimate. It is their home as much as it is mine, and I have sex there so....?


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## UnschoolnMa

Mamakarata,
I just wanted to say that I loved so many parts of your post that there were too many to highlight! I totally agree about the emphasis on virginity being strange (not flaming any religion here...), and that the idea of hoping a 16 year old is finding her lifetime soul mate is a tad squicky. I love how open and honest and trusting you and your Dd are, and it's exactly what we aim for around my place too. It's not perfect, and it gets bumpy sometimes, but we press on as respectfully as we can.


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## nonconformnmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Why can't the person say if they are sexually deviant during the courtship process?

Um. Isn't the very _nature_ of deviancy a thing that is kept secret? Something that is considered shameful, outside the norm, something that must be indulged in furtively? I can't imagine anyone out on the 5th date (or the 50th) and saying, "Oh, by the way, I enjoy spanking my partner during intercourse." (I purposesly picked one of the more milder forms of deviancy, since this is a family board. What I'm worried about is much, much worse tendencies.)


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## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
Um. Isn't the very _nature_ of deviancy a thing that is kept secret? Something that is considered shameful, outside the norm, something that must be indulged in furtively? I can't imagine anyone out on the 5th date (or the 50th) and saying, "Oh, by the way, I enjoy spanking my partner during intercourse." (I purposesly picked one of the more milder forms of deviancy, since this is a family board. What I'm worried about is much, much worse tendencies.)

I am guessing that it would be possible to hide they are physically abusive until they are married. I do realize there are signs typically for domestic violence, but not in all cases. There are any number of things a person could choose to not be completely honest about or not disclose before marriage that have nothing to do with sex. I would say it would be a deal-breaker if a partner was engaging in behavior such as sexual deviance that wasn't acceptable to both parties.


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## nonconformnmom

Houdini-
Sure. But that's why forbidding sex before marriage seems unwise on at least one front in that doing so could prevent a couple from going through with a marriage, only to find out on their wedding night or a few nights later, that they are sexually incompatible to a very serious degree.

I am all for _discouraging_ sex before marriage - I did it wiht my dd. She chose to have sex anyway, but at least I went on record as saying I do not support it, but that I would provide protection and birth control. It's the outright forbidding that I don't understand. Also, there's the whole 'forbidden fruit' thing ...


----------



## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
Houdini-
Sure. But that's why forbidding sex before marriage seems unwise on at least one front in that doing so could prevent a couple from going through with a marriage, only to find out on their wedding night or a few nights later, that they are sexually incompatible to a very serious degree.

I am all for _discouraging_ sex before marriage - I did it wiht my dd. She chose to have sex anyway, but at least I went on record as saying I do not support it, but that I would provide protection and birth control. It's the outright forbidding that I don't understand. Also, there's the whole 'forbidden fruit' thing ...

I am in much the same camp as what you did with your dd. I am well aware that they may choose to have sex outside of marriage and I really can't forbid anything. I will also provide protection/bc. It may be interesting in our house though b/c my husband is very much in the forbid it/don't provide protection camp. We are still working through that. I have been saying my opinion and he says his and we are going from there. Luckily, we aren't to the sex stage (for lack of a better word) yet, though it is coming up quickly.


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## limabean

I don't go for the "if they're going to do it, it might as well be at home" argument. I hear parents who provide alcohol to their teens say the same thing. Yes, kids might drink or have sex, even at home without their parents knowing, but that's different than the parent outright condoning it.

I will be very open with my kids about sex, but I'm also going to be open about our family's values, and handing my kids a beer or a condom on their way to their bedroom isn't part of that.


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## Arduinna

I'm fine with it. She has had her boyfriend come stay at our house. It's not a problem.


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## A&A

I voted that "none of the options really fit my opinion."

My dd is only 10. So I'm only speaking hypothetically now. I wouldn't exactly call it "fine" in my house, but I would understand (at a certain age--not sure what that age would be.) And of course I would want to stress the importance of using condoms.

Even if I were ok with her having sex (at an older age, of course), a boyfriend wouldn't be staying the night. That would be too much like moving in.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lanamommyphd07* 
I also found a joint in her room once, but I didn't bust her--merely dumped some cayenne pepper in and re-rolled it. Let's just say--today, she is a very successful college student who has not become pregnant or picked up any std's, and has this strange aversion to pot.

That's too funny!









I'm the one that said until 30. My babies are my babies, dang it. I don't want to think of it that way, just like I don't want to know of my brothers (who I raised) in that way, or see my kids driving a car. It's scary to me. I don't think sex is shameful, but something private that your parents don't need to know about. I would never tell my parents about my sex life, not from shame, but because it's my business.

And I was allowed to drink, etc. in the house. So were many of my friends. But that didn't mean that we didn't drink outside of the house. Teens are teens. You do some stupid stuff, just like many adults do, for that matter. Just because something is condoned one place, doesn't mean that you won't find other ways, because that's what makes it exciting, right?









I have thought about getting my kids a book about sex when they are older (is it good vibes that has the good one about safety and everything else?) so that they don't have to find out the hard way and so I know they get the right info. But that doesn't mean I expect, condone, or want them to have sex yet. Sex can be a beautiful thing, but it can also be painful and affect you for the rest of your life.

So I guess I will bow out since apparently my view is unwanted here.


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## darkpear

So for those whose beliefs forbid premarital sex, are you comfortable forcing your kids to take Pascal's Wager?


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## Starr

I remember being a teenager and several of my friends had their boyfriends stay the night, personally it was just not something I felt comfortable with and I know my parents would have never allowed it. Yes they probably knew what was going on, they knew I was on the pill and so on but I was over 18. I can not imagine what their reaction would have been if I was 15 or 16 and they are pretty liberal.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I will be very open with my kids about sex, but I'm also going to be open about our family's values, and handing my kids a beer or a condom on their way to their bedroom isn't part of that.

I find this argument interesting. How sex and alcohol are put in the same category. One is a poison. The other is ??? bad?


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama* 
I am curious though.....do you like her boyfriend? If so, what if you didn't? Would you still allow it??

That is a good question. I have grown to like him. He was bit reserved and of course wasn't at all "good enough" for my dd. I can't imagine who ever will be though!









Now if my dd thought I didn't get along well with her BF, she wouldn't feel comfortable inviting him over. The same as if she had a girlfriend that was intolerable somehow. If he was disrespectful, a slob, or whatever, all those things would have to be addressed, the same as any of her friends.

But this whole thing was gradual and individual. It really had to do with my dd being happy with him, and getting to know him over time. Now it's just the same as "mom, can suzie q spend the night tonight" we would evaluate if it's a convenient night to have someone stay the night etc.

Also, he doesn't spend every night over. They have other friends, and stuff going on, but usually every weekend they get together at either my house or his house at some point.

kwim?


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
Cost?

Well from my beliefs, and only my beliefs which I will be teaching DD... her eternal happiness.

As I don't want to be the preachy one here, and I seem to be raining on the its all good parade, I'm out.

See now this makes me sad too. Why are you out? Are you going to be "out" when you dd starts asking you some hard questions?

Is "eternal happiness" something she WON'T have if she chooses to have premarital sex? How will you deal with that if it comes to that?

I really put this thread up to find out more how this opinion works for you. To understand, and maybe learn something myself.

I don't profess to have it all figured out. I may not agree, but I want to know what the thinking is here.

My dd's best friend has talked extensively to me because when she trys to talk with her Mom about her views that are different than her Mom's, her Mom cuts off the conversation too!

I am sure you don't feel you owe me or anyone else BUT your dd a better explanation than "eternal happiness" but if that is all you have, you might need some back up for this one. kwim?. This is just what I am observing.

Don't go away yet. Share!


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## MadWorldSonnet

I just wanted to set it out there-don't be surprised when your daughter (or son) feels that s/he can't talk to you if/when they decide to start having sex. They may very well start talking to their friends, their friend's mother/aunt/sister, etc.

I've personally taken 5 of my sisters friends (and my sister herself) to Planned Parenthood for any number of services, including STD testing/Pap, pregnancy tests, birth control, and yes, abortion.

Each one of them said that their parents basically told them "no sex" (be it before marriage, while still in HS, while living at home, etc), and each one had already been sexually active prior to their 1st visit. None were comfortable talking to their mother or father, and were scared to death about anyone finding out they were sexually active.









Not to mention how many emails and IMs I get from them with questions like "My period is 3 days late! WTF do I do? My mom'll kill me-she doesn't know I'm having sex!" or "I had sex 3 weeks ago, and now it's really buring down there. I have no idea what to do-my dad has the insurence and I can't get treated, cuz then they'll find out"









and each of these girls (and a few guys) has parents who think their kid is a virgin, who didn't talk to their kids about how to protect themselves, didn't supply condoms, etc, because they didn't want to enable them. And many of them would be the 1st to shake their heads at a parent like me.


----------



## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darkpear* 
So for those whose beliefs forbid premarital sex, are you comfortable forcing your kids to take Pascal's Wager?

I am not going to forbid premarital sex b/c I really don't think it is possible. I am teaching my children that we would like them to not have sex outside of marriage and I will give them the risks of sex outside of marriage.

I don't know what Pascal's Wager is, so I can't comment on that.


----------



## darkpear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
I just wanted to set it out there-don't be surprised when your daughter (or son) feels that s/he can't talk to you if/when they decide to start having sex. They may very well start talking to their friends, their friend's mother/aunt/sister, etc.

I've personally taken 5 of my sisters friends (and my sister herself) to Planned Parenthood for any number of services, including STD testing/Pap, pregnancy tests, birth control, and yes, abortion.

Each one of them said that their parents basically told them "no sex" (be it before marriage, while still in HS, while living at home, etc), and each one had already been sexually active prior to their 1st visit. None were comfortable talking to their mother or father, and were scared to death about anyone finding out they were sexually active.









Not to mention how many emails and IMs I get from them with questions like "My period is 3 days late! WTF do I do? My mom'll kill me-she doesn't know I'm having sex!" or "I had sex 3 weeks ago, and now it's really buring down there. I have no idea what to do-my dad has the insurence and I can't get treated, cuz then they'll find out"









and each of these girls (and a few guys) has parents who think their kid is a virgin, who didn't talk to their kids about how to protect themselves, didn't supply condoms, etc, because they didn't want to enable them. And many of them would be the 1st to shake their heads at a parent like me.

































This is life and death, folks. Life and death, in the here and now.


----------



## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
I just wanted to set it out there-don't be surprised when your daughter (or son) feels that s/he can't talk to you if/when they decide to start having sex. They may very well start talking to their friends, their friend's mother/aunt/sister, etc.

and each of these girls (and a few guys) has parents who think their kid is a virgin, who didn't talk to their kids about how to protect themselves, didn't supply condoms, etc, because they didn't want to enable them. And many of them would be the 1st to shake their heads at a parent like me.

I agree some go this direction and won't talk to parents, but I it isn't all of them. My parents expected us to wait until marriage. My mom also made it clear that she would put me on bc if I felt I was ready for a sexual relationship before marriage. I started the pill at 17 and started a sexual relationship at 17 with my now husband.

I don't automatically put teaching your child to wait for marriage into the category of they can't have an open relationship as well and tell you if they choose a different path. My kids are well aware of what we believe to be healthier, but they are also aware that we know they may choose something different and that is fine (at least with me it is...dad is still working it out). We are teaching them about sex within the confines of marriage, but that doesn't mean we aren't teaching them about protection and all that goes with sexual relationships. I am sure there are many families who teach abstinence and nothing else, but it doesn't have to be that way.


----------



## intorainbowz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
See now this makes me sad too. Why are you out? Are you going to be "out" when you dd starts asking you some hard questions?

Is "eternal happiness" something she WON'T have if she chooses to have premarital sex? How will you deal with that if it comes to that?

I really put this thread up to find out more how this opinion works for you. To understand, and maybe learn something myself.

I don't profess to have it all figured out. I may not agree, but I want to know what the thinking is here.

My dd's best friend has talked extensively to me because when she trys to talk with her Mom about her views that are different than her Mom's, her Mom cuts off the conversation too!

I am sure you don't feel you owe me or anyone else BUT your dd a better explanation than "eternal happiness" but if that is all you have, you might need some back up for this one. kwim?. This is just what I am observing.

Don't go away yet. Share!

Oh, alright.

And no I won't be out on my DD, because she is way more important to me than a message board.

I really plan to be open and loving, all the things my mom was not. I know from watching my friends parents, who had the same expectation of abstinence prior to marraige that you can have an open and loving relationship with your children, and still set standards that work for your family. I am using the example set by these women on how to handle such situations. I am thinking of one mom in particular. You could ask her anything. And she would tell you, or tell you that is too personal. She would teach with such love for you as a person. I know from what my friend, her daughter told me, was that was the way she was with her children as well. I want to be a mom like that mom. This mom was one children and teens just wanted to be around, and her house was usually full of her children's friends. However she had rules and expectations. You don't make a mess and if you do, you clean it up. Help with chores if you are there at chore time. Follow her standards while you were in her home.

And yes she had a daughter who got pregnant, and she was so wonderfully kind and gentle with her. She let her daughter know she was disappointed in her, but supported her the whole way. She went to the prenatals, and was her Bradley birthing coach, went to the classes and everything. I also know that prior to her getting pregnant this daughter told her mom she was having sex, and she took her daughter to the doctor for BDP, but as we all know those have the best chance of working when you actually take them.

That's what my plans are. I'm not a head in the sand type of mom. I know sex happens, and I hope over the next decade or so I cultivate a relationship with my DC where they know they can come to me with their problems because I will listen and help, even if I don't approve.

Oh, and I'm not asking them to do anything I did not do. I was a virgin on my wedding night by my choice.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I'm the one that said until 30. My babies are my babies, dang it. I don't want to think of it that way, just like I don't want to know of my brothers (who I raised) in that way, or see my kids driving a car. It's scary to me. I don't think sex is shameful, but something private that your parents don't need to know about. I would never tell my parents about my sex life, not from shame, but because it's my business.

So I guess I will bow out since apparently my view is unwanted here.

But maybe you would have felt comfortable talking to your parents, if you knew they were comfortable with it. kwim?

I know what you are saying. It was weird to think of her having sex at all. But then, sex is kind of a weird act anyway! I mean, I can't think of anyone else that I would "like" to think about having sex. (except dh and me of course)

It is a private thing. But we had children! And they are going to grow up!

I didn't like changing shitty diapers either, but I sure as heck did! It's part of our responsibility as parents doncha think? To help them with growing up? To address the awkward and uncomfortable?

Our parents and society set the tone for these discussions. And that tone usually carries years of baggage that hasn't been re-assessed.

We all to some degree, do that "react parenting" where we just avoid that which makes us uncomfortable.

But like so many parents on mothering.com, we needed to re-think many things (like bottlefeeding, and circumsiion, and cio approaches) and forego what our parents told us so we would know we have made a rational and logical decision based on what is realistic.

i said it before, it wasn't easy at first. i was smack in the middle of the same society of guilt and shame around sex.

And for pete's sake, who said your opinion isn't wanted around here? Look at the polls! It's a mixed lot wouldn't you say?


----------



## choli

I voted "not in the house" because my dds share a bedroom







Apart from that, they are armed with information about birth control and safe sex, and their decisions about their own sexuality are just that - their own. They will not be obliged to discuss those decisions with me any more than I discuss my sex life with them.


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I find this argument interesting. How sex and alcohol are put in the same category. One is a poison. The other is ??? bad?

Yes, they both can be good or bad. It depends on the responsibilities taken on and how you approach it. I see drinking a beer as less a problem than my kid getting HPV. Condoms do not always protect, especially when it's not just intercourse.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
I just wanted to set it out there-don't be surprised when your daughter (or son) feels that s/he can't talk to you if/when they decide to start having sex. They may very well start talking to their friends, their friend's mother/aunt/sister, etc.

I've personally taken 5 of my sisters friends (and my sister herself) to Planned Parenthood for any number of services, including STD testing/Pap, pregnancy tests, birth control, and yes, abortion.

Each one of them said that their parents basically told them "no sex" (be it before marriage, while still in HS, while living at home, etc), and each one had already been sexually active prior to their 1st visit. None were comfortable talking to their mother or father, and were scared to death about anyone finding out they were sexually active.









Not to mention how many emails and IMs I get from them with questions like "My period is 3 days late! WTF do I do? My mom'll kill me-she doesn't know I'm having sex!" or "I had sex 3 weeks ago, and now it's really buring down there. I have no idea what to do-my dad has the insurence and I can't get treated, cuz then they'll find out"









and each of these girls (and a few guys) has parents who think their kid is a virgin, who didn't talk to their kids about how to protect themselves, didn't supply condoms, etc, because they didn't want to enable them. And many of them would be the 1st to shake their heads at a parent like me.









I don't want to not be open about it, I expect my children (and brothers) to be responsible about it, and open up to me. Not that it won't squick me out, and I don't want it under my roof, dagnabit, but I would never assume they are a virgin or have so distant a relationship they can't talk to me about it. That would be a real crime. But I also would not encourage it. Can't you see the difference?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
But maybe you would have felt comfortable talking to your parents, if you knew they were comfortable with it. kwim?

I know what you are saying. It was weird to think of her having sex at all. But then, sex is kind of a weird act anyway! I mean, I can't think of anyone else that I would "like" to think about having sex. (except dh and me of course)

It is a private thing. But we had children! And they are going to grow up!

I didn't like changing shitty diapers either, but I sure as heck did! It's part of our responsibility as parents doncha think? To help them with growing up? To address the awkward and uncomfortable?

Our parents and society set the tone for these discussions. And that tone usually carries years of baggage that hasn't been re-assessed.

We all to some degree, do that "react parenting" where we just avoid that which makes us uncomfortable.

But like so many parents on mothering.com, we needed to re-think many things (like bottlefeeding, and circumsiion, and cio approaches) and forego what our parents told us so we would know we have made a rational and logical decision based on what is realistic.

i said it before, it wasn't easy at first. i was smack in the middle of the same society of guilt and shame around sex.

And for pete's sake, who said your opinion isn't wanted around here? Look at the polls! It's a mixed lot wouldn't you say?

It's unwanted because apparently the tone by many is that I am doing my children wrong by not condoning their doing the hanky panky in my house (or my brothers-squick!!!). My parents (or mother, sdad wasn't around much) were very liberal, sexually open (too much) people. I had the talk. I was told once she'd kill me if I did it, but then she turned her opinion around and changed. Trust me, they were WAY too understanding and open. One time I found some pictures....*shudders* I should be thankful it didn't make me a nun.

And I see the opposite (at least in my circles, but I'm not fundamental in any way, shape, or form) reaction to sex. It is very open and WAY too objectifying of women. Not to mention the pressure and role given to boys and men. It is sickening to me that sex is not something good and sacred, but something to sell toothpaste and pencils and whatnot. THAT is the real crime. Rising numbers of STDs, HIV, and deadbeat fathers also scare me. I have been truly lucky to not ever have a STD, and I would be crushed if my child had to live with that stigma and physical pain.

I just hope to teach my kids that sex isn't just something to do because "everyone is doing it" and they want to. Self control and responsibility are learned and trust is to be earned. I am not going to get them chastity belts, but hope to teach them that it is not cool, in my book to GIO at a young age, even if I have to tell them every horrid detail about my past and my friends' pasts.


----------



## Arduinna

I'm just curious how old everyones kids are posting in this thread? My dd is 17.


----------



## wonderwahine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm just curious how old everyones kids are posting in this thread? My dd is 17.

mine is only 21mths old so far, but I plan to raise my kids how my parents raised me, which is very similar to the OP.


----------



## jlmack45

I think that it is important to talk to your kids about healthy sexual relationships. MY FIL talked to my husband about sex after we had been dating for 6 months. We had already BTDT and his only advice was..." don't have sex with a girl unless your'e ready to marry her because accidents always happen." OH yeah, that was informative!! I would not ever feel comfortable doing anything in my parents or inlaws houses even after we were married. That speech was 3.5 years ago and we are now married and starting a family. I would not condone it in my own home either. I am the only woman getting any in this house! My DH is the type where heaven forbid we have a dd. He will be so protective the rifle on the porch would be an understatement! He would be sitting in the backseat on the way to the date and behind them at all times watching the movie, etc. To each his own, but I would not allow my daughter to have friends over and sleep with the door closed. I will discuss sex and BC methods, but I would not feel comfortable knowing that my child is tucked away safely under the covers....DTD with her bf in my house.


----------



## The4OfUs

I voted Other, because it totally depends on the kid, the circumstance, the partner, and the age/responsibility level they are at as to how I will react.

Being that I WAS having responsible (protection EVERY time), fulfilling sex with my long-term boyfriend (had dated a year before our first time) just before I turned 17 (and continued to for 3 more years before we broke up), I will not be attempting to forbid my children from doing so. My parents told me that they hoped I would wait until I was married, or at least out of high school. That was about as far as our conversations went. I bought my own condoms when my boyfriend and I decided to start having sex, and if it was his turn and he forgot, we didn't do it (I was a hard ass even with all those teenage hormones raging







).

We did it when we were at one of our houses after school, before our parents got home. Or at his house on the weekends if his parents went out for something. My parents never went out when we were at our house. I htink they knew what we were up to.







.

I plan to be open and practical with my children, and try to impress upon them that being emotionally ready, in a healthy relationship is the most important thing if you want to have sex. AND, that abstaining from penetration but doing any number of other more risky things is NOT the way to go. It freaks me out how many kids are doing risky things that are "everything but" in the misguided belief that so long as they don't 'have sex', it's not a big deal. Shudder.

So long as my kids are in a healthy relationship with a caring partner, and are well informed of the responsibilities and risks of having sex, I will not try to stop them. I won't necessarily facilitate them by providing specific opportunities for them to be together to have sex, but I won't try to prevent them either.


----------



## choli

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm just curious how old everyones kids are posting in this thread? My dd is 17.

Mine are 13 and 10.


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm just curious how old everyones kids are posting in this thread? My dd is 17.

I already posted mine. 6,5, and 2. But I raised my brothers (who are now with my sdad) and they are 12,15, and 16. I give them all of those talks, and they are "my children" as far as they and I are concerned.


----------



## limabean

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I find this argument interesting. How sex and alcohol are put in the same category. One is a poison. The other is ??? bad?

Oh, I'm not directly comparing the two, just using them as an example because the parents I've known who let their kids drink at home have used the same argument as some of the parents in this thread use as a reason to let their kids have sex at home. I just don't agree with that particular argument in either case.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Yes, they both can be good or bad. It depends on the responsibilities taken on and how you approach it. I see drinking a beer as less a problem than my kid getting HPV. Condoms do not always protect, especially when it's not just intercourse.


See now this is where we fundamentally disagree. Alcohol is just the thing that would cloud the judgement of whether they are being responsible. It IS bad. Sex is only as bad as people make it; i.e unprotected, non-consentual

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I don't want to not be open about it, I expect my children (and brothers) to be responsible about it, and open up to me. Not that it won't squick me out, and I don't want it under my roof, dagnabit, but I would never assume they are a virgin or have so distant a relationship they can't talk to me about it. That would be a real crime. But I also would not encourage it. Can't you see the difference?

You don't "want to not be open about it" yet you "don't want to think about it" how would they ever feel comfortable with that vibe in the air?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
It's unwanted because apparently the tone by many is that I am doing my children wrong by not condoning their doing the hanky panky in my house (or my brothers-squick!!!). My parents (or mother, sdad wasn't around much) were very liberal, sexually open (too much) people. I had the talk. I was told once she'd kill me if I did it, but then she turned her opinion around and changed. Trust me, they were WAY too understanding and open. One time I found some pictures....*shudders* I should be thankful it didn't make me a nun.

hanky panky "generally used to mean any number of activities of which the speaker does not approve.." the baggage, the endless baggage! Your parents sounded confused and shared too much. Remember that when you "squick" out!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
And I see the opposite (at least in my circles, but I'm not fundamental in any way, shape, or form) reaction to sex. It is very open and WAY too objectifying of women. Not to mention the pressure and role given to boys and men. It is sickening to me that sex is not something good and sacred, but something to sell toothpaste and pencils and whatnot. THAT is the real crime. Rising numbers of STDs, HIV, and deadbeat fathers also scare me. I have been truly lucky to not ever have a STD, and I would be crushed if my child had to live with that stigma and physical pain.

I agree!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I just hope to teach my kids that sex isn't just something to do because "everyone is doing it" and they want to. Self control and responsibility are learned and trust is to be earned. I am not going to get them chastity belts, but hope to teach them that it is not cool, in my book to GIO at a young age, even if I have to tell them every horrid detail about my past and my friends' pasts.

Me too! So we DO agree! And you will be able to do just that if you can not "squick out" (at least visibly)







I certainly wanted her to do it when SHE was ready, and under no pressure etc.

And in the end, she felt ready. So now what? "No you can't?" This is where the relationship breaks down if an understanding is not made that includes dd's maturity and input. It's just a matter of communication and understanding. Once it becomes a battle, it's all over.

Thanks for sticking around!


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
You don't "want to not be open about it" yet you "don't want to think about it" how would they ever feel comfortable with that vibe in the air?

hanky panky "generally used to mean any number of activities of which the speaker does not approve.." the baggage, the endless baggage! Your parents sounded confused and shared too much. Remember that when you "squick" out!

Nope, sure don't want to think about it! Just like I don't want to think about my cats GIO, or my neighbors, or my parents... I want them to be able to talk to me about it, but that doesn't mean I want to visualize it.

I consider hanky panky to mean the same thing the song meant.







There are many terms to use. If I disapproved of sex, I wouldn't have almost 4 kids. And baggage? Honey, you have no idea! But my friends whose parents were open the same way as your relationship with your dd are no more messed up in the sex dept. than I. In fact, I was more conservative in my...practices.

I still disagree about alcohol. One beer doesn't cloud your judgement. Otherwise all those dang Europeans who drink wine with their meals would be nothing but a load of degenerates.







If you abuse it, it does have the propensity for damage, that's where the similarity between irresponsible drinking and irresponsible sex comes into play. Clear as mud?


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## MillingNome

Well since my dd likes to read here (don't you have a myspace page to attend to







???) I would definately prefer she wait until she is done with high school and a good chunk of college and is married. It totally has to do with the values I think will serve her best for her life goals. I also am of the mind that there is plenty to do that can be rather fun that does not involve actual sex. It takes discipline but I think we can all admit to knowing more than just sex rocking the world







DD and ds will be told anything they want to know barring personal info. They can ask any question and expect an honest answer. That is what I am comfortable with. But as discussed someone where else, it is not always about being comfortable. They are their own people and must be able to know that no matter what they choose, I will love them. It doesn't mean that is what I want for them or think it is best for them in the long run. I can only hope that between what I tell them, they find out through friends and the web, they will know and understand that no action is without consequences.


----------



## UnschoolnMa

Regarding age of kids: My son is 16 and my daughter is 13.5


----------



## nonconformnmom

*


----------



## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm just curious how old everyones kids are posting in this thread? My dd is 17.

Three boys - 12, 9, and 6....one girl - 10.


----------



## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
And in the end, she felt ready. So now what? "No you can't?" This is where the relationship breaks down if an understanding is not made that includes dd's maturity and input. It's just a matter of communication and understanding. Once it becomes a battle, it's all over.


You do realize the question you asked, right? It was: *How comfortable are you with a sexually active teen?*

You didn't ask if we will support our children even if they go against something we value, if we will be open with them about the risk and benefits of sex, or discuss any number of issues surrounding relationships. I am honestly not comfortable with the thought of my dd having sex while still in high school. It is a reflection of what I value and no different than trying to instill any number of other values. It's kind of my job as parent to do that. Those are my expectations. I freely acknowledge dd will draw her own conclusions. I would just like my values to be her starting point. Then she has to thoughtfully reason why she would not hold such a value.

Personally I don't care what anyone else condones in regards to sex for their kids... obviously talking about teens having/ not having sex with other teens with consent. If you're comfortable with your teen having sex in your house, fine. It's your house, your kid, your comfort level, your values. I don't have to agree with you to understand why you condone it. Hopefully the same goes for those of us who hold differing views, even if you don't agree with us. There's more than one right way to raise a kid


----------



## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
You do realize the question you asked, right? It was: *How comfortable are you with a sexually active teen?*

You didn't ask if we will support our children even if they go against something we value, if we will be open with them about the risk and benefits of sex, or discuss any number of issues surrounding relationships. I am honestly not comfortable with the thought of my dd having sex while still in high school. It is a reflection of what I value and no different than trying to instill any number of other values. It's kind of my job as parent to do that. Those are my expectations. I freely acknowledge dd will draw her own conclusions. I would just like my values to be her starting point. Then she has to thoughtfully reason why she would not hold such a value.

Personally I don't care what anyone else condones in regards to sex for their kids... obviously talking about teens having/ not having sex with other teens with consent. If you're comfortable with your teen having sex in your house, fine. It's your house, your kid, your comfort level, your values. I don't have to agree with you to understand why you condone it. Hopefully the same goes for those of us who hold differing views, even if you don't agree with us. There's more than one right way to raise a kid


----------



## guestmama9911

I haven't read all the posts, but I voted after marriage only, and this is how it is going to work.

I raise my children, first off, letting them know that even when they make poor choices, they are still loved and valuable.

However, I do have standards I think will make them happier people, and one of them is to honor their bodies and consider sex to be a wonderful gift you give someone you love and not just recreation or a way to keep a boyfriend. I am going to teach them that saving sex for marriage is a wonderful thing.

I personally did not and I regret it every day. The oolder I got and learned about love and sex and relationships, the more I wish I had been more discriminating and the more I wish I had adopted the Buddhist view of being moderate with your passions.

Now that I am LDS (Mormon), I have an even more beautiful view of sex as the most ultimate form of spiritual connection with a human being. I do not think I am depriving my child by teaching them this belief, but preparing them for something amazing.

Do I condemn people who have sex outside of marriage? That would make no sense, since I did. I have friends are who living together, and I don't love them any less. And I love my children unconditionally. But that doesn't mean I don't want them to have a moral base, and my moral base includes saving sex for marriage.

And my mother taught us all about birth control and STD's when we were very young. But she also taught us about fetal development, how an embryo has a heart beat at only 3 weeks, how the baby looks at each stage of pregnancy. She held nothing back from us so that we could make wise choices. So when I did loose my virginity, at least I was prepared to protect myself physically. I just wasn't prepared to protect myself emotionally.

So this is my take on it.


----------



## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
I was a virgin when I got married. I was lucky; he and I were compatible. But it could have just as easily gone the other way ....

I have always found this concept a little odd. It seems to me that any two people who are deeply interested in each other's pleasure can create a wonderful sexual relationship. My DH was a virgin when we married - he was very inexperienced in a lot of areas. And my sexual experiences were limited to a selfish first boy friend and a series of abusive ones.

But together we explored and communicated and experimented and now if I may be so bold I must declare our sex life is awesome and creative and sometimes downright kinky. It's just beautiful and spiritual every time. And that's what I want for my children.


----------



## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
OK now I am going to really probably freak you out with another thing to think about before you procreate.

I am serious about believing that you should chelate before trying to conceive children.

In our family, which is not unlike most families probably, we have generations of vaccinations, mercury fillings, and in general stupidity (my ancestors visited the nuclear test sites, teledyne, for fun, I kid you not). So, I am watching the worlds worst disaster show on discovery and see that the very teledyne place had a nuclear disaster and didn't inform the public, they were still there watching the cranes move stuff "for fun", and I was like, gee, that was probably my family right there. Any how. By the time these generations go by, enter me having my kiddo's with a mouth chock full of mercury fillings. I didn't vax my kids, except the first. I nursed them and passed toxins through the breastmilk, and probably did major dumps of toxins to them during pregnancies. I didn't get them any mercury fillings, or the youngest four any vaxes, but my children have high levels of mercury, lead and other toxic heavy elements on their hair tests which means they are excreting these toxins from their bodies because it is coming out in their hair.

The best way to do a toxin dump, (in this I am kidding) is to have a pregancy. The toxin load, many believe the mother does a major dump to the fetus. Anyhow, explains in another way besides vaxing only why you have autism and illness rates on the rise. I have talked to our naturopath about this and seen my children's hair tests and we are not comfortable keeping this level of toxins in their bodies, let alone not warning them of the dangers of having children before chelation, not that I wouldn't help them pay to chelate my future grandchildren, but YK? I don't want my teenager to get pregant before she undergoes chelation, and I am serious. Am I like the freaky only one who thinks of these things?

This is v ery interesting. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
You do realize the question you asked, right? It was: *How comfortable are you with a sexually active teen?*

well as you see by the # of pages, the conversation AFTER my question CONTINUED. ??? so ???? is there a board police that says a conversation can't proceed to something that is not EXACTLY what the op was?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
You didn't ask if we will support our children even if they go against something we value, if we will be open with them about the risk and benefits of sex, or discuss any number of issues surrounding relationships. I am honestly not comfortable with the thought of my dd having sex while still in high school. It is a reflection of what I value and no different than trying to instill any number of other values. It's kind of my job as parent to do that. Those are my expectations. I freely acknowledge dd will draw her own conclusions. I would just like my values to be her starting point. Then she has to thoughtfully reason why she would not hold such a value.

But the convo turned to this, so ? it's a conversation. It's sharing different points of view. It's awesome!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
Personally I don't care what anyone else condones in regards to sex for their kids... obviously talking about teens having/ not having sex with other teens with consent. If you're comfortable with your teen having sex in your house, fine. It's your house, your kid, your comfort level, your values. I don't have to agree with you to understand why you condone it. Hopefully the same goes for those of us who hold differing views, even if you don't agree with us. There's more than one right way to raise a kid









And I do care. And I do want to know the other perspectives. Which is why I asked! So thanks for sharing!


----------



## Artisan

I voted for away at school/out of the house. I'm not a proponent of sex in high school. Once you're in college, that becomes a different story. I'm a high school teacher, and even the most responsible long term couples have issues, particularly if they go to the same school. When couples break up (as is quite likely at age 16), drama always ensues. Girls tell their girlfriends about the sex, boys tell their friends, soon the whole school knows their business, and people end up WAY more hurt than they would've otherwise. Colege aged kids have a different attitude about the whole thing, there's generally less gossip and drama, sex is expected and the norm rather than something to gossip about behind others' backs.

My kids are still young, but I'm hoping to stave off sex before college.


----------



## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I find this argument interesting. How sex and alcohol are put in the same category. One is a poison. The other is ??? bad?

Both can be bad when misused. I am a living example of that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
You do realize the question you asked, right? It was: *How comfortable are you with a sexually active teen?*

You didn't ask if we will support our children even if they go against something we value, if we will be open with them about the risk and benefits of sex, or discuss any number of issues surrounding relationships. I am honestly not comfortable with the thought of my dd having sex while still in high school. It is a reflection of what I value and no different than trying to instill any number of other values. It's kind of my job as parent to do that. Those are my expectations. I freely acknowledge dd will draw her own conclusions. I would just like my values to be her starting point. Then she has to thoughtfully reason why she would not hold such a value.

Personally I don't care what anyone else condones in regards to sex for their kids... obviously talking about teens having/ not having sex with other teens with consent. If you're comfortable with your teen having sex in your house, fine. It's your house, your kid, your comfort level, your values. I don't have to agree with you to understand why you condone it. Hopefully the same goes for those of us who hold differing views, even if you don't agree with us. There's more than one right way to raise a kid









Good post.


----------



## nonconformnmom

Alisaterry wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nonconformnmom
_I was a virgin when I got married. I was lucky; he and I were compatible. But it could have just as easily gone the other way ...._

I have always found this concept a little odd.
Which concept do you find to be odd (I'm confused)? Being a virgin on the wedding day, or being (in)compatible?

I agree with you that most couples can negotiate a sexual lifestyle that is rewarding and pleasurable for both of them. However, it is not uncommon for one or the other partner to want to do things that their partner is not initially comfortable with or may even find repulsive. I don't want my daughters to discover on their wedding night that their new spouse has expectations of certain sexual behaviors that they are not willing to engage in.

To me, it makes sense to explore the sexual aspects of a relationship, along with the spiritual, social, recreational aspects during the courtship phase. Why do everything else before marriage, and not sex? Does that foster a balanced and healthy relationship? Doesn't it send the message that sex is dirty and bad?


----------



## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
Alisaterry wrote:

Which concept do you find to be odd (I'm confused)? Being a virgin on the wedding day, or being (in)compatible?

I agree with you that most couples can negotiate a sexual lifestyle that is rewarding and pleasurable for both of them. However, it is not uncommon for one or the other partner to want to do things that their partner is not initially comfortable with or may even find repulsive. I don't want my daughters to discover on their wedding night that their new spouse has expectations of certain sexual behaviors that they are not willing to engage in.

To me, it makes sense to explore the sexual aspects of a relationship, along with the spiritual, social, recreational aspects during the courtship phase. Why do everything else before marriage, and not sex? Does that foster a balanced and healthy relationship? Doesn't it send the message that sex is dirty and bad?

No, it doesn't, if taught right. It sends the message that sex is special and important. I do not buy that teaching a child to wait until marriage teaches that sex is bad. It's the ones that won't talk about it or go off about hell that teach a bad view of sex.

My key sentence was two people who are interested in each other's pleasure. It would not be difficult beforehand to discuss sexual expectations, as my husband and I did, since as I stated he was a virgin when we married. A partner who pressures his or her spouse to do things sexually has other issues besides sexual incompatibility. To me "sexual incompatibility" is another phrase for "selfishness" or even "emotional abuse."


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## Arduinna

Quote:

I agree with you that most couples can negotiate a sexual lifestyle that is rewarding and pleasurable for both of them. However, it is not uncommon for one or the other partner to want to do things that their partner is not initially comfortable with or may even find repulsive. *I don't want my daughters to discover on their wedding night that their new spouse has expectations of certain sexual behaviors that they are not willing to engage in.*
Or vice versa, for that matter. I mean it goes both ways.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Or vice versa, for that matter. I mean it goes both ways.

Very true. I respect someone wanting to wait until marriage. But for me, personally, I would never enforce it (how would you even?) or do it myself. But I often wonder if I would have...

Oh, and I swear some of my posts here are missing. I don't know if my 'puter is messed up or I'm being edited. Or maybe I'm just going crazy...


----------



## talk de jour

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
14??? Yeah, not in the states. Maybe Arkansas. But I think even that has an age limit with the age of the partner-i.e. the bf over the age of 16, 18, whatever.

Ummmm, the age of consent in MO is 14 with partners up to 20yo.

21 and up requires the younger to be 17.


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## Jane

I'm uncomfortable with the notion of "putting" a girl on birth control. If she's going to consent to sex, she should be able to navigate the medical consent for an IUD or BCP. If it's just shorthand for taking her and buying it and reminding her to take it...that's cool. But I had friends whose mothers said "I don't believe that you aren't having sex, so on the pill you go" to girls who weren't sexually active. That's wrong.

My opinion of sleepovers is tainted by the memory of a high school classmate who had "those" parents. They were the only couple I knew that the parents allowed sleepovers since 14 or 15 years of age. The parents were totally cool with it, but then got really pissed and wouldn't allow it anymore - the kid's crime? She got pregnant, didn't tell anyone until too late for a cheap abortion. His parents were totally pissed about the $800. Crazy all the way around (other stuff, too). Anyway, I associate it with their bad parenting.

bestbirths, it's OT for this thread, but I don't believe that chelation does any of the things that are suggsested that it does and it can be dangerous. I do think we have an obligation to help protect our daughters and the daughters in our community from excess exposure to hazardous chemicals. In that respect, I suspect the average 16 yo mother has less chemical exposure than the average 32 yo mother.


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## Houdini

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot* 
I'm uncomfortable with the notion of "putting" a girl on birth control. If she's going to consent to sex, she should be able to navigate the medical consent for an IUD or BCP. If it's just shorthand for taking her and buying it and reminding her to take it...that's cool. But I had friends whose mothers said "I don't believe that you aren't having sex, so on the pill you go" to girls who weren't sexually active. That's wrong.

For myself 'putting' a girl on bc translates into taking her/buying it/reminding her to take it.

As far as your friend's mother....I agree that's wrong.


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## nonconformnmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Or vice versa, for that matter. I mean it goes both ways.

Oh absolutely. I have only girls, so that's why I focused on the girl side of the equation.

Alisaterry wrote:

Quote:

It would not be difficult beforehand to discuss sexual expectations, as my husband and I did, since as I stated he was a virgin when we married.
I'm curious how a virgin is able to articulate their sexual expectations in advance of ever engaging in the act. As I said, I was a virgin when I got married, and I would not have been able to articulate any preferences with regard to sex. Not saying I don't believe you that it's possible, just saying it doesn't fit with my experience. I think it's wonderful that you and your dh are so well matched sexually and otherwise and were able to talk about it with such ease.


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## Jessy1019

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
My partner and I have talked about it and have reached similar conclusions as you mamakarata.


Me too!! My kids will be welcome to have their partners spend the night. They;re already growing up with a healthy understanding and openness about sex, and I want that to continue and grow even stronger as they age.


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## Jessy1019

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
i have yet to meet someone who regrets having waited.

Hi, I'm Jessy. Nice to meet you.









Really, I only "waited" because my long-term boyfriend wanted to wait until we got married. We broke up and my virginity was gone very soon after.


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## nonconformnmom

I regret having waited. I think our marriage would have had a much richer, more well-rounded start had we experienced sex together before our wedding night. As it was, the whole wedding event was all just trivia leading up to the Big Moment when we would finally be able to touch each other. It was incredibly skewed and my experience of the marriage day itself was compromised, IMO, due to the attention being paid (not only by us but by family members as well) to the fact that we would momentarily be able to *gasp!* have sex!

Also, my wedding night sucked since I had no idea what to expect or how to enjoy it.


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## mwherbs

it would depend on which kid of mine, what age, lots of considerations-- because I am a midwife my kids knew the routines about unintended consiquences - and I feel very different about a 17 year old being sexually active than say a teen that is 13-- also is it acting out-- I have had several very troubled teens live in our house temporarly and for the most part I would counsel that it isn't a good idea- also is there an age disparity in proposed partner- 4 years older or younger this is not ok-- also we worked on other things like how many conversations have you had with this proposed partner? are they showing up at midnight just for a booty call or are they serious about you- sure sex is fine and fun but there are babies and diseases and hurt feelings/self-esteem issues someone that you choose to have sex with should also respect you


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour* 
Ummmm, the age of consent in MO is 14 with partners up to 20yo.

21 and up requires the younger to be 17.

You are right. But that's not readily apparent unless you read into the "close in age exceptions". And the OP is in CA, not MO. I actually discussed Arkansas having that law, too. But in general, the lowest appears to be 15 or 16 since we do not know the bf's age.

I would have to go back and read all this again, but I'll let you because I don't really care about each state's law right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of...erica#Missouri

Missouri
The age of consent in Missouri is 17, however there exist close in age exceptions which allow those under 21 to engage in sexual activity with those 14 or older.

This legislation applies to both sexual intercourse (RSMo 566.032 and RSMo 566.034) as well as "sodomy", or "deviate sexual intercourse" (RSMo 566.062 and RSMo 566.064)

It should be noted that mistake as to the age of the victim may be a defense in some circumstances as defined in RSMo 566.020. Missouri repealed the "sodomy" sex laws in July 2006 between same-sex adult partners [1] and replaced with the exceptions as shown above.


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## MadWorldSonnet

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
But in general, the lowest appears to be 15 or 16 since we do not know the bf's age.


the OP clarified, he's 16 too.


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## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
the OP clarified, he's 16 too.

I didn't catch that. Thanks.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Me too!! My kids will be welcome to have their partners spend the night. They;re already growing up with a healthy understanding and openness about sex, and I want that to continue and grow even stronger as they age.

Awesome!


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## Arduinna

I'm not really getting the relevance of consent laws to this thread topic anyway. Everyone here is talking about consentual sex as I understand it. I mean, I hope no one is proposing charging someone with statutory rape when they know both parties are consenting? We aren't talking about 15 year olds and 40 year olds after all.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
mamakarata, it sounds like you have a wonderful, loving and respectful relationship with your daughter. I love to hear about close relationships between moms and teen daughters--you hear so many of the horror stories.

My oldest is 14. Right now, she's still far from being ready for a sexual relationship. But... so much changes so quickly at this age. It's hard for me to answer the poll because my comfort level would depend greatly on my perception of the relationship.

Thank you! And I understand. If you had asked me before she met her BF, I don't know how I would have felt. It was a process built off of her and their situation, and the timing etc.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulatara* 
I am about to go back and read the whole thread, but I just wanted to tell you I think you are an amazing mom.

Well thank you! While I feel good about our situation, it's always nice to hear positive feedback from others as well. And I was a little afraid to share for fear of intense judgement. But I remind myself we are all doing the best we can, otherwise, we wouldn't be here sharing ideas and asking the hard questions, right? Take care!


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## mwherbs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I'm not really getting the relevance of consent laws to this thread topic anyway. Everyone here is talking about consentual sex as I understand it. I mean, I hope no one is proposing charging someone with statutory rape when they know both parties are consenting? We aren't talking about 15 year olds and 40 year olds after all.

even if you don't press charges it is against the law and the state can make charges-- and they can possibly charge you as contributing to the delinquence of a minor to even worse if they choose... this is extreme but as a mw I have seen pregnant young moms be put into foster homes.... something to think about as well


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## LoveChild421

don't have teens yet so I can only speak hypothetically, but...

I'm one of the only 4 so far who voted "whereever, whenever"







:

I expect any kids with my genes to be sexually active in their teen years







and I would prefer that they do it under my roof so that they don't have to deal with the cops or uncomfortable backseat sex







I will of course have the birth control and safe sex discussions and I really hope my kids feel like they can come to me for advice and support. My great-grand parents and my grandparents all got married at 14 or 15. No one saw anything wrong with them going with their natural urges. It's just in the last few generations that the whole "wait til you're married" deal means wait til you're out of high school for sure to get married and probably college. That's just not healthy in my opinion. Whenever I hear of someone who is 24 or something and waiting til they get married I just feel so sorry for them.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
Mamakarata,
please, write that book!
I'm totally where you're at on this one...
admittedly, my DD is 4, and when the topic comes up, I always joke that as soon as she hits puberty we're packing her off to a Swiss Boarding School in a full-body cast-iron chastity belt...
but I'm just joking
I think the reality will be something like a lifetime of open and honest communication, and loving support of whatever choices she makes. And of COURSE I'd rather she be consenting, with a partner, safe under my own roof, rather than sneaking around in parking lots and alleyways. Heck, I remember being 16, and how much energy was focused on sneaking around. My parents learned their lesson, by the time my sister reached adolescence, they let the BF move in, and she's the one who stayed in school and went to college...

Thank you! I told my DD you said that. We need the encouragement to actually do it!

And I have to laugh at your sister being one who stayed in school .... I was the youngest of 5 and my Mom had sort of come to that same conclusion by the time of my adolesence as well.

With my oldest sister, it was battle after battle about BF's and sex. She had a baby at 16! I had my DD at 21. (still young IMO but I couldn't imagine at 16!)


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## Bestbirths

I think that chelation does have to do with how comfortable we feel with our 18 & 14 year old teenagers being sexually active, since we've seen their hair tests and they are high in mercury. Mercury which can be passed to the fetus, unless you chelate yourself first. We own a sauna, and providing ways of detoxification is a major lifestyle choice for our family that has taken huge financial sacrifices to provide. We're Big on chelation. We use andy cutlers low and slow method of chelation and for our son it was safe and effective, but our son still has a year to go.

We believe that it is better to be stable before you raise a family so that you won't have to live in a crappy old house with lead paint and mold. ie: stable life partner, career plan in place, financial security of some sort, if you are going to have sex! Unless you don't know where babies come from. Sex isn't just an enjoyable experience that we are driven to do...it does create new life and there is great responsibility involved in that. Kind of squinky for a 16 year old to find a life mate, YES, that's why we tell our children we would be more comfortable, and they would be more comfortable to wait until they are older to become sexually active. Now is the time to focus on education and career planning, dating comes later. How about traveling and seeing the world before becoming a parent? Just some things we talk about, like how when you are a parent you have less time to just do whatever you want to do with your life.

Who said anything about shaming, judging, or condemning? Do any of you know me or the people who are in the marriage before sex side? It's like you automatically assume I wear denim and wear my hair in a bun or am some kind of judgemental person (the kind of people that we can't stand to even be around) when we say we prefer marriage and commitment before sex.

The month before dh and I got married we read sex books together and discussed what we were going to do. It made it less awkward on the wedding night. It's a different lifestyle choice to remain a virgin until marriage, and I think it should be respected as much as any other lifestyle choice would be. We are not forcing this belief on our children, as much as presenting it, in my opinion.

I am the mom whose child didn't bathe for six months at a time and I went out in public with him that way and was not ashamed of him. At that time we had absolutely no worries about sexuality and need for birth control.







but no judgement or shame. I think I could handle a pregnant teenager.

I don't believe that especially here on mdc, those who are saying they are uncomfortable with their teens being sexually active are some kind of prudy parents whose kids are going to sneak out and be more likely to get pregnant. I don't believe that our teens will be less likely to talk to us about their sexuality because of our beliefs. We were in the car listening to the radio today when an add for penis enhancement came on and it spurred a whole very funny discussion and a bunch of yuks from the back of the car. My children know that if they don't want to go by what we believe they can talk to us about it. When our son had his first serious girlfriend, he was just about to turn 18. We bought him condoms, and beer for his birthday, and at the same time explained to him yet again our beliefs, yet told him if he chose to do things differently to be safe.

We gave our dd the "what's happening to my body book for girls" at age 12, we have discussed sex openly with them. I am a doula, and I am very open with talking about sexuality with my children. The reason I would have to go put my teen on birth control is that she is 14, and doesn't drive. I don't see why that is so offensive to people. I told her that if she wanted or needed to be on birth control she should let me know so that we could make arrangements.

As far as religious choices with the Wager thing, our son is an atheist, but since he became a christian as a child and then became an atheist, and we believe in eternal security no matter what, he doesn't have to wager, he can go about his life being an athiest only to arrive in heaven anyway.







:


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## kittywitty

What is this Wager thing that is totally going over my head, anyway?


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## nonconformnmom

I didn't know either, so I looked it up on wikipedia. I love learning new stuff like this!









Quote:

Pascal's Wager (or Pascal's Gambit) is the application by the French philosopher Blaise Pascal of decision theory to the belief in God. It was set out in the Pensées, a posthumous collection of notes made by Pascal towards his unfinished treatise on Christian apologetics.

The Wager posits that it is a better "bet" to believe that God exists than not to believe, because the expected value of believing (which Pascal assessed as infinite) is always greater than the expected value of not believing. In Pascal's assessment, it is inexcusable not to investigate this issue:

Before entering into the proofs of the Christian religion, I find it necessary to point out the sinfulness of those men who live in indifference to the search for truth in a matter which is so important to them, and which touches them so nearly.


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## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darkpear* 
So for those whose beliefs forbid premarital sex, are you comfortable forcing your kids to take Pascal's Wager?

Pascal's Wager

Quote:

The Wager posits that it is a better "bet" to believe that God exists than not to believe, because the expected value of believing (which Pascal assessed as infinite) is always greater than the expected value of not believing. In Pascal's assessment, it is inexcusable not to investigate this issue:


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## Bestbirths

We don't use words like forcing, condemning, and forbidding in our home. You are sprecking a different linguie to me...my children don't even know what this is. We're unschoolers. Barely even use the words sin, right, wrong, good, or bad...either.


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## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
We believe that it is better to be stable before you raise a family so that you won't have to live in a crappy old house with lead paint and mold. ie: stable life partner, career plan in place, financial security of some sort, if you are going to have sex! Unless you don't know where babies come from. Sex isn't just an enjoyable experience that we are driven to do...it does create new life and there is great responsibility involved in that. Kind of squinky for a 16 year old to find a life mate, YES, that's why we tell our children we would be more comfortable, and they would be more comfortable to wait until they are older to become sexually active. Now is the time to focus on education and career planning, dating comes later. How about traveling and seeing the world before becoming a parent? Just some things we talk about, like how when you are a parent you have less time to just do whatever you want to do with your life.

Who said anything about shaming, judging, or condemning? Do any of you know me or the people who are in the marriage before sex side? It's like you automatically assume I wear denim and wear my hair in a bun or am some kind of judgemental person (the kind of people that we can't stand to even be around) when we say we prefer marriage and commitment before sex....

....I don't believe that especially here on mdc, those who are saying they are uncomfortable with their teens being sexually active are some kind of prudy parents whose kids are going to sneak out and be more likely to get pregnant. I don't believe that our teens will be less likely to talk to us about their sexuality because of our beliefs. We were in the car listening to the radio today when an add for penis enhancement came on and it spurred a whole very funny discussion and a bunch of yuks from the back of the car. My children know that if they don't want to go by what we believe they can talk to us about it. When our son had his first serious girlfriend, he was just about to turn 18. We bought him condoms, and beer for his birthday, and at the same time explained to him yet again our beliefs, yet told him if he chose to do things differently to be safe.














































And seriously, as stated in a previous post of mine, there are more ways than one to sexually rock someone's world. We all seem to want the best for our kids, let's just keep that in mind. I have yet to read a post saying they want their kids to wait and won't give any safe sex info. Even as we all want what's best for our kids, it looks like we value sex differently based on our beliefs. Based on that, we're trying to steer our kids in certain directions in regards to sex. And I am not saying you view sex as less if you don't mind your teen having it. You just value it differently









*


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## Bestbirths

My son is taking the athiests wager

Quote:

the Atheist's Wager suggests that:

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he may judge you on your merits coupled with your commitments, and not just on whether or not you believed in him.[5]


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## GalateaDunkel

I voted none of the above.

I had a seriously scarring emotional experience with my first sexual relationship at age 16-17. I feel that my mother facilitated this to a certain extent by her hands-off, tolerant attitude.

I believe that sex creates a spiritual bond between two people and that it is unethical to have sex with a person with whom one does not intend to create such a connection; and that I would be irresponsible if I facilitated this for a child who was too young to handle it or in a relationship that is acknowledged to be inherently temporary. That's not the exact same thing as "wait until marriage" but it's damn close. I did not wait for marriage myself, but I really really wish I had.

Of course, all I can do is teach my values, not enforce them. And given the extremely personal nature of sexuality, I hope to have a relationship where if she rejects my view of the matter, she will still have access to birth control. I know too many teenagers who got pregnant before they were ready because their parents were in denial.

I don't like the "try it before you buy it" attitude to premarital sex. I think it's terribly unwise. *A hot sexual connection makes an otherwise bad relationship a lot harder to get out of.* And having a kid with a guy who isn't a keeper is extremely bad mojo, as I have observed in the lives of many friends. I'm not going to set up a young, unexperienced girl for all that just to prove to her how open I am.


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## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 

I believe that sex creates a spiritual bond between two people and that it is unethical to have sex with a person with whom one does not intend to create such a connection; and that I would be irresponsible if I facilitated this for a child who was too young to handle it or in a relationship that is acknowledged to be inherently temporary. That's not the exact same thing as "wait until marriage" but it's damn close. I did not wait for marriage myself, but I really really wish I had.

Of course, all I can do is teach my values, not enforce them. And given the extremely personal nature of sexuality, I hope to have a relationship where if she rejects my view of the matter, she will still have access to birth control. I know too many teenagers who got pregnant before they were ready because their parents were in denial.

I don't like the "try it before you buy it" attitude to premarital sex. I think it's terribly unwise. *A hot sexual connection makes an otherwise bad relationship a lot harder to get out of.* And having a kid with a guy who isn't a keeper is extremely bad mojo, as I have observed in the lives of many friends. I'm not going to set up a young, unexperienced girl for all that just to prove to her how open I am.


I totally agree with this, so many great points and so well said! We believe that there is a spiritual connection and bond during sex too.


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## sibelius

I have yet to read a post saying they want their kids to wait and won't give any safe sex info.

well, i wouldn't because i'm catholic and artificial birth control is not the way forward, in my opinion. the sex talk i plan to give is based on the theology of the body (google it if you're interested). besides, "safe sex" is such a misnomer. maybe safe from pregnancy and std's (sometimes), but safe from the potential emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma? no.

nfp, however, is a different story.


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## sibelius

_I have yet to read a post saying they want their kids to wait and won't give any safe sex info_.

well, i wouldn't because i'm catholic and artificial birth control is not really our thing. the sex talk i plan to give is based on the theology of the body (google it if you're interested). besides, "safe sex" is such a misnomer. maybe safe from pregnancy and std's (sometimes), but safe from the potential emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma? no.

nfp, however, is a different story.


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## Bestbirths

ah fertility awareness...that's how we ended up with five children!









So I think it is important to teach fa from an early age so you really know your body. I started learning it inbetween #3 and #4 and made a couple miscalculations to have #4 and #5. I'd like to start teaching fa at the onset of menarche.


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## sibelius

obviously having a little trouble working this thing! clearly the reactionary in me


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## mwherbs

oh yes my kids both boys and girls have some degree of education on fertility awareness- how much they took in and still remember I don't know the girls have more practical application-- at this point and all my kids are adults at this point .
I would say that I was never hands off but also accept that some of my kids were going to act and really felt it was my job to give some guidlines-- and I agree that spiritual connections are made as well.. if you have any crazy issues in your background- you may have some wild hormones as well- infact I know that the person who instantly turns my head and I have some unconcious reaction to is going to be some how not a healthy person to be around for me..


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## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
_I have yet to read a post saying they want their kids to wait and won't give any safe sex info_.

well, i wouldn't because i'm catholic and artificial birth control is not really our thing. the sex talk i plan to give is based on the theology of the body (google it if you're interested). besides, "safe sex" is such a misnomer. maybe safe from pregnancy and std's (sometimes), but safe from the potential emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma? no.

nfp, however, is a different story.









There always has to be one!








to MDC!!!


----------



## Jennyfur

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I don't go for the "if they're going to do it, it might as well be at home" argument...
I will be very open with my kids about sex, but I'm also going to be open about our family's values, and handing my kids a beer or a condom on their way to their bedroom isn't part of that.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Houdini* 
I agree some go this direction and won't talk to parents, but it isn't all of them...

...My kids are well aware of what we believe to be healthier, but they are also aware that we know they may choose something different and that is fine (at least with me it is...dad is still working it out). We are teaching them about sex within the confines of marriage, but that doesn't mean we aren't teaching them about protection and all that goes with sexual relationships.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
I am honestly not comfortable with the thought of my dd having sex while still in high school. It is a reflection of what I value and no different than trying to instill any number of other values. It's kind of my job as parent to do that. Those are my expectations. I freely acknowledge dd will draw her own conclusions. I would just like my values to be her starting point. Then she has to thoughtfully reason why she would not hold such a value.

Personally I don't care what anyone else condones in regards to sex for their kids... obviously talking about teens having/ not having sex with other teens with consent. If you're comfortable with your teen having sex in your house, fine. It's your house, your kid, your comfort level, your values. I don't have to agree with you to understand why you condone it. Hopefully the same goes for those of us who hold differing views, even if you don't agree with us. There's more than one right way to raise a kid










Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artisan* 
I voted for away at school/out of the house. I'm not a proponent of sex in high school. Once you're in college, that becomes a different story. I'm a high school teacher, and even the most responsible long term couples have issues, particularly if they go to the same school. When couples break up (as is quite likely at age 16), drama always ensues. Girls tell their girlfriends about the sex, boys tell their friends, soon the whole school knows their business, and people end up WAY more hurt than they would've otherwise. Colege aged kids have a different attitude about the whole thing, there's generally less gossip and drama, sex is expected and the norm rather than something to gossip about behind others' backs.

My kids are still young, but I'm hoping to stave off sex before college.

I agree with all of the quotes above. My girls are nearly 20, 13, and 9, and I have a son who's 13.

My oldest didn't have sex until she was away for her freshman year at college, and she was nearly 19. She told me all about the experience.

I am absolutely unequivocally not okay with any of my children having a boyfriend or girlfriend sleep over when they are minors. I'd probably be okay with a steady boy/girlfriend spending the night if my child is in his/her early twenties (i.e., reasonably mature by my calculations, and this would vary depending on which child it is).

I don't have a problem with other people raising their children differently, but I teach my children not to have sex until they are adults.

FWIW, DH didn't have sex until he was 18 (that was in 1981), and I didn't have sex until I was 19. I was raised in a very liberal, open household.


----------



## <~*MamaRose*~>

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
i definitely would not be comfortable with that. no way. at 16? i remember being 16, and as mature as they think they are, they don't have a clue. my mother is doing something similar with my 19 yr old sister (who at least is legal), and i find it very strange, if not appalling. it seems to me that the same argument is being used to justify allowing mature and immature teens to have sex at home. makes absolutely no sense to me. sex is not just recreation. there are pretty serious consequences, both physical and emotional, that no amount of birth control can prevent. most girls that i know regret having had sex too soon. i have yet to meet someone who regrets having waited.









:

I was a teen mom and even though I didn't conceive my oldest in *my* bedroom but probably in the back seat of bf's car or *his* bedroom, my son (same age as yours) knows that sleepovers or even gf's in his room will never happen. I will NEVER allow teen sex under my roof. And yes I have completely open and frank conversations with my son all the time about sex (he has access to rubbers), drugs and relationships.


----------



## UUMom

One thing I've always told my kids is that enjoying orgasms doesn't mean you want to have intercourse. So I voted 'other'.


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## <~*MamaRose*~>

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
One thing I've always told my kids is that enjoying orgasms doesn't mean you want to have intercourse. So I voted 'other'.









Hell for a few years after I lost my virginity (I was 14) the only orgasms I had were without actually *going all the way*...honestly I never got off on the actual act! Sad I know.


----------



## UnschoolnMa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
One thing I've always told my kids is that enjoying orgasms doesn't mean you want to have intercourse. So I voted 'other'.

Such important info for them to have!


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## Ceinwen

Quote:

One thing I've always told my kids is that enjoying orgasms doesn't mean you want to have intercourse. So I voted 'other'.
Totally agree.

My mum was very open about sex and everything that goes with it. Even with very open, supportive parents, I ended up waiting until 19 because I just never met anyone that pushed my buttons enough!









After sharing all the pertinent information, my dd will be free to make her own decisions regarding her body. That is her right as a human being.


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## Arduinna

Wow. Ok well at our house concern about the cops charging us with something for letting our dd's boyfriend spend the night is not even a something I worry about.


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## trmpetplaya

I do not believe that I would ever be comfortable with my children having sex in my house while I was home... just not in my personal comfort level. Dh and I want a large family so it might be difficult for our children to find "alone time" with a SO whether dh or I are home or not anyhow









I want to be very open with my children about why I would prefer them to wait until they are at least in a good (emotionally), stable relationship before having sex or fooling around too much. I had a very bad experience with my first bf and we never had PIV sex - oral and heavy fooling around - and he ended up being very emotionally abusive. He was somewhat physically abusive, but it was the emotional abuse that was hard to see and get away from. The sexual aspect of our relationship clouded my judgement even more, IMO. Dh and I waited for each other for PIV sex, but we did not wait until we were married... dh has never been with another girl/woman at all.

My children will all have information about birth control (good and bad points of each type) and I would certainly be willing to help them get bc if they asked for my help even though dh and I wouldn't consider personally using anything other than NFP if we had to (we're not Catholic... but it is for religious reasons). They will likely have most attended the births of siblings by the time they are teens (my 20 mo dd has already attended a birth, though she obviously won't remember it) so they will know where babies come from at an early age. They will also know what birth entails...

I would be comfortable having my children taste alcohol or drink moderate amounts with dinner as teens at home, but I believe that the drinking law is ludicrous (I think a more reasonable age would be 16-18) and that children need to be taught (as well as shown) moderation wrt alcohol with a responsible adult present BEFORE they go off to college (or wherever) and possibly learn the hard way (as I did) with only other drunk college students present. I also wouldn't be embarassed to walk in on my children sipping on wine, but I would be terribly embarassed to walk in on them with a SO, GIO







I wouldn't be comfortable HEARING them GIO with a SO either









I'm also curious about how you feel about sleepovers with same-sex friends if your child is GTLB. A friend of mine's parents totally freaked out because they walked in on her and her girlfriend from college who was staying with her for a couple weeks... they never suspected because they didn't know my friend was bi... they would NEVER have let her have a male friend stay over in her room with the door closed, but they were fine with her female friend until they found out that their daughter was actually dating the friend...

love and peace.


----------



## dealic

Quote:


Originally Posted by *trmpetplaya* 
I'm also curious about how you feel about sleepovers with same-sex friends if your child is GTLB. A friend of mine's parents totally freaked out because they walked in on her and her girlfriend from college who was staying with her for a couple weeks... they never suspected because they didn't know my friend was bi... they would NEVER have let her have a male friend stay over in her room with the door closed, but they were fine with her female friend until they found out that their daughter was actually dating the friend...

How I will handle any sexual activity of my future children is of course entirely theoretical at this point, because I don't even have kids. But the gender of their partner would not effect that at all. I am GLBT (somewhere on the queer spectrum) and am completely comfortable with that possibility with future children.

The issue above seems more one of having let a partner stay over without knowing it was a partner. For me, having non-partnered friends of either gender over is on the same level, and having partners of either gender is on another level. The case here was possibly in the eyes of the parents a lie of omission about the relationship status of the guest. Or at least that would be my issue with it.


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## mamakarata

Arduinna, I don't gather that your only concern is a cop knocking on your door. You have a moral issue with it. I respect that.

If it was against the law NOT to allow the BF to spend the night, I doubt you'd have BF stay the night to avoid the cops. kwim?









I hear a lot of those who wouldn't allow it under their roofs BUT they are open and talking about it. That is good news to me.

I do know that as open as I want to be, if my DD thinks she is going to disappoint me with a decision she has made, she may not be as willing to share it.

I pride myself on communicating unconditional love, but she still looks up to me and my opinion so much that, if pulled hard enough to make a decision against my opinion, she is likely to hide it.

It isn't only those who use the words "forbidden" and who won't talk about it at all. This is a real concern to me.

I posted earlier about DD's best friend, honor student, athlete etc who's relationship w.her mom broke down over this when she tried to communicate her oppostion to this opinion of abstinence.

No trying to change minds. Just more food for thought. I think this board and this conversation, whether we agree or not on MY decision, is still an excellent awareness and sharing of perspectives that will help ALL of us make the right decision for our children.

Thank you again everyone for all of your input! What a great community!


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## Arduinna

huh? I don't have any moral issues with it. My dd is 17 and I've provided BC for her and allowed her boyfriend to stay with us. My only concern is for her is that she only have sex because she wants to, not because she feels presured. I lived with my 23 year old boyfriend when I was 16. I am totally fine with teens having consentual sex.

here is my thread about it if you want a clearer understanding of my position. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=651527


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## Bestbirths

As far as sleepovers go, we have an 18 yr old ds, 14 yr old dd, 11ds, 9dd, and 6dd. My 18 yr old ds has boys up to 20 yrs old at our house at all hours of the day and night, many times staying up all night gaming. At any given time I will find friends of his at all hours of the day or night sleeping on our couches, our floors, or in extra beds. We've had up to six or eight of ds friends staying at a time. One kid has done everything short of eat here for 2 years. My oldest son's room has four computers and three tv's and every game system there is with games on them, it is the ultimate gamer hangout. When the electric company came out they said his room alone was pulling more electricity than any other room in the house. It is so hot in there that even in the basement, they have to run a fan. Luckily most of these boys already have girlfriends, but it does concern me that 14 yr old dd likes one of her brother's friends because at some point I do have to sleep and friends come and go at night too. I guess if my son was gay, he would be having a lot of time to explore that.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
Wow. Ok well at our house concern about the cops charging us with something for letting our dd's boyfriend spend the night is not even a something I worry about.

My mistake. I took this as saying you don't have to worry about it BECAUSE you don't allow BF to stay the night. kwim?


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## Arduinna

gotcha


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## Ruthla

My children already know that sex is something for adults, preferably after marriage. We've already discussed the basics of conception, STDs, and the emotional repurcussions of sex.

When they get older, I will continue to encourage open talks about sexuality, along with anything else that may come up in their lives. I'm quite willing to purchase contraceptives for them if necessary, but I certainly hope it never becomes necessary!

I will not do anything to facilitate teenage sex. No overnights with boys. No closing the bedroom door if a boy comes over. I haven't yet decided about unchaperoned dates- they're still too young for that to be an issue. Right now they're not allowed to date at all.


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## KermitMissesJim

Galatea said it beautifully upthread.

I was sexually active in college. I found no shame in sex, even though my parents never discussed it with me (they conceived my older sis out of wedlock and felt it would be hypocritical to tell me to wait, so they told me nothing at all, even when I asked them directly). But what Galatea said resonated with me; on top of that, the physical connection I felt with both of those young men made it hard for me (and he) to see that we were not compatible long-term in other, more crucial areas.

I'm a convert to the LDS Church now, and there's a history there of shame and confusion about sex, both before and after marriage. I see it lifting and changing in the newest generation of LDS parents; the values are the same, but the hush-hush and shame is on its way out. Dh and I will help to usher it out.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I voted none of the above.
I had a seriously scarring emotional experience with my first sexual relationship at age 16-17. I feel that my mother facilitated this to a certain extent by her hands-off, tolerant attitude.

That is sad that your mother was "hands-off"- and left you to deal with that alone. Hands-on parenting might have helped you avoid that situation all together.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I believe that sex creates a spiritual bond between two people and that it is unethical to have sex with a person with whom one does not intend to create such a connection;

That is interesting because I don't believe sex itself creates a spiritual bond, rather, the friendship and communication would create that bond, and then ultimately sex would be one of many expressions of that bond.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
and that I would be irresponsible if I facilitated this for a child who was too young to handle it

Absolutely, of course!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
...or in a relationship that is acknowledged to be inherently temporary. That's not the exact same thing as "wait until marriage" but it's damn close. I did not wait for marriage myself, but I really really wish I had.

I think right now, my DD is in it for the positive experience and friendship and closeness and pleasure and joy!

But I asked her and she said "I consider myself a feminist, not a commodity. I don't WANT to get married. I want my art, and photography, and I am going to college! Are you kidding?
(I got this from her in Costa Rica on foreign exchange via instant message)- she'll be back in 5 months to elaborate.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
Of course, all I can do is teach my values, not enforce them. And given the extremely personal nature of sexuality, I hope to have a relationship where if she rejects my view of the matter, she will still have access to birth control. I know too many teenagers who got pregnant before they were ready because their parents were in denial.

Yeah that is tricky, because having "access to birth control" means either coming to you for it when she knows it is opposite your values, or sneaking elsewhere for it; hence the potential "parent in denial" you speak of.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I don't like the "try it before you buy it" attitude to premarital sex.
I think it's terribly unwise. *A hot sexual connection makes an otherwise bad relationship a lot harder to get out of.*

I agree, it's better to get to know someone before clouding it with sex which was my advice exactly! They waited until they felt ready, and fortunately my DD's relationship makes her extremely happy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
And having a kid with a guy who isn't a keeper is extremely bad mojo, as I have observed in the lives of many friends.

I agree, so if abstinence does not work, it's good to have your back up plan which is an open continuous frank dialog about birth-control and STD's of course!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I'm not going to set up a young, unexperienced girl for all that just to prove to her how open I am.

Nor would I! In our case we are responding to a mature young woman to support this next part of her growing up.


----------



## GalateaDunkel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
That is interesting because I don't believe sex itself creates a spiritual bond, rather, the friendship and communication would create that bond, and then ultimately sex would be one of many expressions of that bond.

The prevalence of this attitude in our society is what makes me so protective of the soul aspect of sexuality. A human being is not a "ghost in a machine." Our bodies are integral aspects of our spiritual identity. In sex, the profound natural language of the body says "I merge with you completely; I connect with you as closely as humanly possible; I give myself to you." Denying this meaning is the easiest way to create negative spiritual consequences. Speaking this profound language of the body without meaning it, or without being able to back it up with adult commitment on other levels, is spiritually harmful.

Quote:

Yeah that is tricky, because having "access to birth control" means either coming to you for it when she knows it is opposite your values, or sneaking elsewhere for it; hence the potential "parent in denial" you speak of.
I have to say that I don't take kindly to your continued insinuations that anyone with misgivings about teen sex is therefore automatically setting up a negative, repressed dynamic around sexuality. You may not be able to fit your head around it, but that doesn't mean we're either lying or in denial. Also, the dichotomy you are setting up WRT access to birth control is false. First, if I would provide access to birth control if I knew my daughter were sexually active, then by definition birth control for those who choose to be sexually active is _not_ against my values. Choosing to be sexually active as a teenager _is_ against my values, but it's not my body.

Second, if one is old enough to have sex, I don't see how getting BC without parental involvement counts as "sneaking." I did it fifteen years ago with no problem. I can only imagine how much easier it is now, or will be when my daughter is that age. I see a disconnect between the adultlike autonomy involved in taking a sexual partner, and the childlike dependence of having mom hold your hand on the preparations and precautions. A person who is not worldly-wise enough to make their own arrangements as to the how, when, where and with what protection is not sophisticated enough to deal with the natural consequences of sex, either. IOW grown up enough to do it means grown up not to have to check in with your parents about it.

Quote:

I agree, it's better to get to know someone before clouding it with sex which was my advice exactly! They waited until they felt ready, and fortunately my DD's relationship makes her extremely happy.
Teenage girls in general tend to be extremely happy with their boyfriends, for as long as they have them. And _everyone_ waits until they "feel ready," unless they're being raped. As a mother I would hope to offer, from the perspective of age and experience, a counterbalance to a young person's hormone-fueled enthusiasm for a particular partner, rather than simply reinforce it.


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## The4OfUs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
Second, if one is old enough to have sex, I don't see how getting BC without parental involvement counts as "sneaking." I did it fifteen years ago with no problem. I can only imagine how much easier it is now, or will be when my daughter is that age. I see a disconnect between the adultlike autonomy involved in taking a sexual partner, and the childlike dependence of having mom hold your hand on the preparations and precautions. A person who is not worldly-wise enough to make their own arrangements as to the how, when, where and with what protection is not sophisticated enough to deal with the natural consequences of sex, either. IOW grown up enough to do it means grown up not to have to check in with your parents about it.

Word.

As I stated above, I started having sex with a long-term BF at 16, and I marhced myself into the drug store regularly (as did he) to buy condoms. We were old enough and ready enough to be doing it, we were old enough and ready enough to be being safe.


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## Bestbirths

Well, I guess since a lot of my children are on the autism spectrum I wouldn't assume that they would know or be comfortable going out to get condoms or birth control. I feel comfortable being very proactive with the birth control issue. They know that we have certain values about sex. We also believe that it is a spiritual bond that connects two people. At the same time, I am not going to let our values create the kinds of kids that goes off to college and comes back pregnant, which I have seen over and over again in churches where the parents refused to allow their children birth control. With our 18 year old, dh had the very very hilarious discussion about penis size with him when trying to select condoms for him, but believe me, we are glad he did, as he will always have those just in case, and he knows they have an expiration date too. I probably expect they will expire, but you never know.

My daughter, I feel needed to be told that if she chose to be sexually active, PLEASE come to me and let me help you get BC because exactly that, she is in no way ready, not sophisitcated enough or ready to know how to get anything but something over the counter, and she is 14, which is different than the ages you are talking about. When you say "teen" though, you could be talking about 13 on up to 18, and then each child in those ages has differing maturity for their age.


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## sibelius

i guess i don't really understand what your dd is trying to say in that i.m. who really considers themselves "commodities"? and why does she think you must be a self-proclaimed feminist to avoid such a fate? does she equate marriage with bondage?

i guess this is the point about teen sex. she might have a very different world view in a couple years. and doesn't this discussion ultimately boil down to world view? i view sex as being more than a fun, positive experience with the guy i happen to like at the time. but if you (op) don't happen to see it that way, then i guess your decision is consistent with your world view. i don't think teens have a comprehensive world view and therefore, are not experienced enough with life to make such a momentous, potentially life-changing decision. that's why they live with their parents and are still considered minors, and are still in school, and financially dependant.

and let's not forget about the consequences of sex - pregnancy (and std's). no birth control is 100% effective, so what is your back-up plan for a pregnancy? it's not such an easy thing to just sweep under the rug.

this is why, imo, teen sex is not something to be enabled. when teens become financially independant (and therefore usually not teens anymore!), then their decisions really do become their own decisions. and for better or for worse, they, at that point, would have the resources to deal with a sexual relationship.


----------



## mwherbs

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
i guess i don't really understand what your dd is trying to say in that i.m. who really considers themselves "commodities"? and why does she think you must be a self-proclaimed feminist to avoid such a fate? does she equate marriage with bondage?

i guess this is the point about teen sex. she might have a very different world view in a couple years. and doesn't this discussion ultimately boil down to world view? i view sex as being more than a fun, positive experience with the guy i happen to like at the time. but if you (op) don't happen to see it that way, then i guess your decision is consistent with your world view. i don't think teens have a comprehensive world view and therefore, are not experienced enough with life to make such a momentous, potentially life-changing decision. that's why they live with their parents and are still considered minors, and are still in school, and financially dependant.

and let's not forget about the consequences of sex - pregnancy (and std's). no birth control is 100% effective, so what is your back-up plan for a pregnancy? it's not such an easy thing to just sweep under the rug.

this is why, imo, teen sex is not something to be enabled. when teens become financially independant (and therefore usually not teens anymore!), then their decisions really do become their own decisions. and for better or for worse, they, at that point, would have the resources to deal with a sexual relationship.

yep-- very big part of the discussion- you may want the fun but there is responsibility and in the realm of possibilities is pregnancy-- what are your plans if this happens?


----------



## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I have to say that I don't take kindly to your continued insinuations that anyone with misgivings about teen sex is therefore automatically setting up a negative, repressed dynamic around sexuality. You may not be able to fit your head around it, but that doesn't mean we're either lying or in denial. Also, the dichotomy you are setting up WRT access to birth control is false. First, if I would provide access to birth control if I knew my daughter were sexually active, then by definition birth control for those who choose to be sexually active is _not_ against my values. Choosing to be sexually active as a teenager _is_ against my values, but it's not my body.

Second, if one is old enough to have sex, I don't see how getting BC without parental involvement counts as "sneaking." I did it fifteen years ago with no problem. I can only imagine how much easier it is now, or will be when my daughter is that age. I see a disconnect between the adultlike autonomy involved in taking a sexual partner, and the childlike dependence of having mom hold your hand on the preparations and precautions. A person who is not worldly-wise enough to make their own arrangements as to the how, when, where and with what protection is not sophisticated enough to deal with the natural consequences of sex, either. IOW grown up enough to do it means grown up not to have to check in with your parents about it.


Mamakarata, it seems you have to keep justifying your position by discounting or otherwise saying other's views are somehow flawed. Personally, at least for me, I don't have any problem with what you allow in your house. At the risk of sounding harsh, I just don't understand why you keep hacking away at opposing views when it is a personal/family value discussion that each individual person holds. You are no sooner going to sway me to condone my dd to have boyfriends over to my house for sex than I am to sway you to ban your dd from having sex in your house. No one is saying you are wrong to do it that I saw. I'm just saying I hold different values for xyz reasons


----------



## sunnysideup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata*
That is interesting because I don't believe sex itself creates a spiritual bond, rather, the friendship and communication would create that bond, and then ultimately sex would be one of many expressions of that bond.

But sex does encourage bonding. There is a physical reason why we feel more connected to someone after having sex. The hormone Oxytocin is released during orgasm to facilitate bonding and attachment--the same hormone released while breastfeeding.

I think Galatea brings up some good points.

Ultimately, my feeling is that I can share my opinions, knowledge and experience with my child, and then they make their own decisions.


----------



## Bestbirths

Quote:

yep-- very big part of the discussion- you may want the fun but there is responsibility and in the realm of possibilities is pregnancy-- what are your plans if this happens?
no kidding! If this happens at a young age who do you think is going to be footing the bill for the pregancy diet with healthier foods and extra protein in the diet? childbirth education? Books? CPM not covered by insurance fees? baby stuff, cloth diapers, sling? grandchild? I guess it would be me, providing food, housing, etc., etc. If I could afford another child, I would have had one. At a young teen age, I doubt very seriously the commitment level of the proposed father of the baby, hypothetically, but yk? In my son's case he is going to be in college and working fulltime so where is the time or money for a child in that scenario? So the whole adoption, abortion issue comes up. If your world view doesn't include abortion it probably makes prevention more of a priority, so like since abortion is not in ours, condoms aren't really enough birth control, imho.


----------



## sibelius

exactly!

which is why, excluding the religious and moral reasons i have, condoning teen sex is too much of a risk. i am not willing to subject my child to the difficult choices a teen pregnancy presents. none of the options, save perhaps adoption, is a great scenario. and even with adoption, the girl would have to carry a baby for 9 mos., then deliver! birth control just isn't a sure thing, especially in hands of teenagers!


----------



## Bestbirths

Do you think it unethical then, to provide birth control for a teen that wants to be sexually active but is in no way mature enough to handle the reprocussions? That's kind of a dilemma. I think I would go ahead and get the birth control for them anyway, but wow, what a terrible position to be in to have to make that decision or to have a child that wants to be sexually active when they do not have the maturity to handle it.

Because, if you get them birth control you are protecting them from STD's and pregnancies, but if you get them birth control at a young teen age, it could be considered enabling them to do behavior that could be emotionally damaging that they are not ready for yet.


----------



## ananas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Can you really sleep at night thinking about what freaky things are going on in there?

I'm sure she knows (unlike a lot of parents) exactly what is going on in there- is normal sex really such a "freaky thing"?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
And this girl had always been very close to her Mom. A great student and athlete. Until the issue of sex. They fight about it. It changed their relationship. And i see how much energy and sadness surrounds sex and getting or not getting it.

This, sadly, is the way it works a lot. For my mom and I, it wasn't so much the issue of sex, just the issue of boys. Curfews, rules regarding males at the house, the huge contrast between the rules I had regarding male friends and rules I had regarding female friends, the fact that she was uncomfortable even with me talking on the phone to male friends- all of those things put barriers up. Rules that had never existed in our house before that were founded as soon as I began having more male friends- it led me to feel she didn't trust me (which, when it came to guys, she really didn't). So in effect, I wasn't comfortable, and I did sneak around, and it _did_ change our relationship.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadWorldSonnet* 
I just wanted to set it out there-don't be surprised when your daughter (or son) feels that s/he can't talk to you if/when they decide to start having sex. They may very well start talking to their friends, their friend's mother/aunt/sister, etc.

Each one of them said that their parents basically told them "no sex" (be it before marriage, while still in HS, while living at home, etc), and each one had already been sexually active prior to their 1st visit. None were comfortable talking to their mother or father, and were scared to death about anyone finding out they were sexually active.









:

Excellent post. I touched on this subject about.

The thing is, anytime you tell your children that you're not okay with something, they're going to know you're not okay with it. So if you keep repeating "No sex before marriage, no sex before marriage, no sex before marriage, no sex before marriage" and then every once in a while add in a "But I'll still love you if you do have sex, please come to me and tell me", it's natural that the child is only going to hear the "No sex before marriage". They know their views on it, so they obviously know how you feel about the topic and they know that if they come to you and let you know that they have been having sex or are thinking about having sex, you will at the very least be disappointed in them. And despite how it seems, as someone who was in that age bracket not long ago, your teens really do care about not disappointing you.







I think, for me, I cared way more about the disappointment issue. I knew my parents would get over anger and the like, but I couldn't bear the thought of them being disappointed in me.

So yes, explain your morals and beliefs to your children. But even better, try to encourage them to adopt the same set of morals, try to teach them WHY you feel they shouldn't have sex before marriage. Don't outright forbid it, try to get them to see why you feel that way. Because in the end, your morals, your religious beliefs, your views on sex, will mean absolutely nothing. They need to know before they're having sex what their morals are and how they feel not just about sex, but about many decisions they'll make in life.


----------



## sibelius

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Do you think it unethical then, to provide birth control for a teen that wants to be sexually active but is in no way mature enough to handle the reprocussions? That's kind of a dilemma. I think I would go ahead and get the birth control for them anyway, but wow, what a terrible position to be in to have to make that decision or to have a child that wants to be sexually active when they do not have the maturity to handle it.

Because, if you get them birth control you are protecting them from STD's and pregnancies, but if you get them birth control at a young teen age, it could be considered enabling them to do behavior that could be emotionally damaging that they are not ready for yet.

well, yes, i do think it's unethical. however, i realize this is hardly a mainstream view! i would never recommend artificial contraception to anyone, for a myriad of reasons, and especially not to a teenage child of mine. and if i did have a child who was really tempted to be sexually active, i would have them read the theology of the body for teens, have them volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center, and then keep them away from tempting situations. i can't completely control what they do, but i can control what i do, (i.e. not compromising my beliefs by handing out bc) and if they make a stupid choice that goes against everything they've been taught, then there may be unfortunate consequences.


----------



## Artichokie

I will teach my children that sexual intercourse is an adult activity. When s/he is ready to be an adult (live on her/his own and support her/his self), then that is the appropriate time to consider sexual intercourse.

My own parents taught "no sex before marriage," but I never bought into it, even as a small child. I mean, some people choose never to be married. Does that mean they can never have sex? What about gay and lesbians? Since I was taught that sex before marriage is wrong, and gays and lesbians couldn't be legally married, did that mean that they could never have sexual intercourse, either? The whole thing sounded pretty fishy to me.

So, I will teach my child that some activities are for adults, and are permissible when they are ready to be adults. If they want to find a job at age 16 and get an apartment, then I'll be first in line to help them with birth control and family planning.


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## hottmama

My kids are little-- while I have talked about sex with my 4.5 yr. old, it's not really in his plans for the next 10 yrs.








But I voted that it's okay in my house after open communication (which should start in toddlerhood, IMO). I started having sex at 15 and was very responsible. I didn't have sex without a condom EVER until I started TTC my first child. I expect my kids to do the same. I do not want them to wait until marriage and I think 16 is a healthy age to become sexually active. As long as they are looking out for everyone's health, physical and emotional, they are welcome to do it in my house.


----------



## trmpetplaya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dealic* 
How I will handle any sexual activity of my future children is of course entirely theoretical at this point, because I don't even have kids. But the gender of their partner would not effect that at all. I am GLBT (somewhere on the queer spectrum) and am completely comfortable with that possibility with future children.

The issue above seems more one of having let a partner stay over without knowing it was a partner. For me, having non-partnered friends of either gender over is on the same level, and having partners of either gender is on another level. The case here was possibly in the eyes of the parents a lie of omission about the relationship status of the guest. Or at least that would be my issue with it.

I totally agree with you here (it's still theoretical for me too, since my older daughter is only 20 months old...). In my friend's case, her parents wouldn't have accepted the fact that she was bi, which is why she hadn't told them (they did eventually work it out - thankfully her parents' church pastor was a good mediator and very liberal). I would hope that my children would feel comfortable enough to confide in me since I will love and accept them without regard to sexual orientation. Though I still wouldn't be comfortable with them having a SO over when I'm around...

I'm curious about what those folks who are most concerned about pregnancy would do if their child's SO was of the same gender. Obviously pregnancy wouldn't be a concern anymore. There would still be a risk of STD's of course...

love and peace.


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## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ananas* 
This, sadly, is the way it works a lot. For my mom and I, it wasn't so much the issue of sex, just the issue of boys. Curfews, rules regarding males at the house, the huge contrast between the rules I had regarding male friends and rules I had regarding female friends, the fact that she was uncomfortable even with me talking on the phone to male friends- all of those things put barriers up. Rules that had never existed in our house before that were founded as soon as I began having more male friends- it led me to feel she didn't trust me (which, when it came to guys, she really didn't). So in effect, I wasn't comfortable, and I did sneak around, and it _did_ change our relationship.

The thing is, anytime you tell your children that you're not okay with something, they're going to know you're not okay with it. So if you keep repeating "No sex before marriage, no sex before marriage, no sex before marriage, no sex before marriage" and then every once in a while add in a "But I'll still love you if you do have sex, please come to me and tell me", it's natural that the child is only going to hear the "No sex before marriage". They know their views on it, so they obviously know how you feel about the topic and they know that if they come to you and let you know that they have been having sex or are thinking about having sex, you will at the very least be disappointed in them. And despite how it seems, as someone who was in that age bracket not long ago, your teens really do care about not disappointing you.







I think, for me, I cared way more about the disappointment issue. I knew my parents would get over anger and the like, but I couldn't bear the thought of them being disappointed in me.

So yes, explain your morals and beliefs to your children. But even better, try to encourage them to adopt the same set of morals, try to teach them WHY you feel they shouldn't have sex before marriage. Don't outright forbid it, try to get them to see why you feel that way. Because in the end, your morals, your religious beliefs, your views on sex, will mean absolutely nothing. They need to know before they're having sex what their morals are and how they feel not just about sex, but about many decisions they'll make in life.


Well there you go. The heart of the question- what do we expect of our children while they are living with us... is it fair to have expectation? Once they are out of the house, it matters also less as they will legally be adults. From the quote it sounds like: make sure you have no expectations nor values you want your children to live up to so there is no chance they would have to worry about disappointing you.

I don't think that's what you mean. Surely you must have/will have some expectations on how you want your kids to act, schooling to attain, habits (eating, pg care, nursing, nfl, etc...) that you have that you would like them to have, ideal partners you'd like them to find, and of course the original topic, sex.

I'm hoping that I'm raising my kids to be handle disappointment, even when it is coming from me









*


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## zoeyzoo

I can only offer you what DH and I have discussed since we're not there. We plan to try to teach wait for serious relationships, with people your love, giving you virginity away is a big deal, etc. When they decide they are ready we hope they'll be open to us about it and be safe about it.


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## rayo de sol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MoreThanApplesauce* 
My own parents taught "no sex before marriage," but I never bought into it, even as a small child. I mean, some people choose never to be married. Does that mean they can never have sex? What about gay and lesbians? Since I was taught that sex before marriage is wrong, and gays and lesbians couldn't be legally married, did that mean that they could never have sexual intercourse, either? The whole thing sounded pretty fishy to me.

Yes! Finally! Thank you for bringing this up. This whole thread I've been thinking, "What about gay and lesbian youth?"

Telling gay and lesbian youth that they shouldn't have sex before marriage isn't really fair, is it, since they are not allowed to get married--at least in the U.S.

So, for all the "no sex before marriage" people: *Why do you assume your children are heterosexual? What if they're gay? When do they get your approval to enjoy sex if they're gay? Or what if your children are straight but they just aren't interested in marriage? Not everyone gets married. Or what if your children are straight, but they don't end up getting married until they're in their 30s? You want them to wait that long to have sex?*

My opinion on teen sex is as long as we have thoroughly discussed all of the possible consequences and ramifications of sex, as long as they have condoms and know how to use them, as long as it will be consensual sex with another teen who is very similar in age, and as long as it's a mutually respectful and emotionally healthy relationship, I am absolutely fine with sex happening in my home under these circumstances.


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## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 
Yes! Finally! Thank you for bringing this up. This whole thread I've been thinking, "What about gay and lesbian youth?"

Telling gay and lesbian youth that they shouldn't have sex before marriage isn't really fair, is it, since they are not allowed to get married--at least in the U.S.

So, for all the "no sex before marriage" people: *Why do you assume your children are heterosexual? What if they're gay? When do they get your approval to enjoy sex if they're gay? Or what if your children are straight but they just aren't interested in marriage? Not everyone gets married. Or what if your children are straight, but they don't end up getting married until they're in their 30s? You want them to wait that long to have sex?*

My opinion on teen sex is as long as we have thoroughly discussed all of the possible consequences and ramifications of sex, as long as they have condoms and know how to use them, as long as it will be consensual sex with another teen who is very similar in age, and as long as it's a mutually respectful and emotionally healthy relationship, I am absolutely fine with sex happening in my home under these circumstances.

Gay couples have ceremonies all the time, they just aren't official,"in the eyes of the law" right? Intention is everything, if their intention is a serious one on one committed relationship, that is better than a revolving door of relationships emotionally, in my opinion.
I don't assume my child is heterosexual. If their gay most of my concerns about teenage pregnancy and waiting to have kids and waiting to procreate until after chelation are relieved (probably unless they surrogate, which is usually done by stable gay couples who have homes and careers, which satisfies my hope that my children are in a stable relationship and have stability before having children). When do they get my approval to enjoy sex when they are gay? Gee, much sooner than hetero teens I would think, and without as many restrictions. The only thing that is left is the sex as a spiritual bond, and frankly if he's going to go ahead and be gay my only concern left would be his emotional and spiritual health and that he/she was mature enough to be in sexual relationships without getting hurt. If my child is straight and doesn't get married until 30 is really beyond the scope of this question in the OP, which is about a sexually active teen. You can skew the question with all kinds of hypotheticals but I guess all the things I said earlier apply to the child no matter what age they are. If they still have not found that special one person, I think they should wait. What happens when your child is engaged, like at 25, but their fiance dies? Then they could possibly grieve for years and be still a virgin at age 30. I would still hope for my child that they could wait until they again found another special person that they wanted to share their lives with.

There are probably a whole other set of concerns with gay relationships to deal with like...i don't know, but I am sure that gay couples have many concerns to replace the worries about getting pregnant.


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## sibelius

these hypothetical situations with gay teens/adults really do not apply to this thread. however, my standard of chastity applies to every teen in my house, regardless of "orientation". what happens after they are teens is out of the scope of this thread.


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## Tinas3muskateers

We have a very open line of conversation about sex and she is aware that I would prefer for her to wait but that isnt going to happen, so she is safe and is only with one person. I do not ok it to happen in my home though, if she feels she is mature enough to do it, then she is old enough to find a place to do it and it most certainly isnt here.


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## Sea_Guy

So I'm LDS. My subject line basicly says the final answer.

Here's why:

16-year-olds are not adults, physically or mentally. Some would debate this issue (of adulthood, not sexuality), but these are mostly individuals who have not studied human development in depth. The nervous system doesn't develop fully in most humans until late teens to early twenties. Sure, it's mostly functional, but (surprise!) the brain has _not_ fully developed; reasoning on an adult level, therefore, is beyond most of us during our teen years. You learn this in basic university-level human development classes.

One of the great powers given to people is the power to procreate. It is attached to this wonderful experience of sex. I love sex! It feels great! I am a member of a church that encourages sex -- after marriage. Because of the emotions involved, and the sacred power, like God's, to give life, this is something that should be reserved for married couples. Children deserve to come into happy families with a father and mother.

I hope that my children will wait until they have found that person with whom they desire to spend eternity, and after making promises and being legally married, have a wonderful sex life. I, like the mother who started this thread, intend to speak openly with my children about sex. My daughter is only three months old, so she's a bit young for these discussions. When she can begin to understand, I will teach her that sex is a wonderful experience that can enrich her life, or if partaken of in the wrong circumstances, can be destructive.

When my children are adults, I will not force my values on them. No good can come of forcing values on anybody. When they are youth, I will not support premarital sex; I will encourage my children to wait. If they don't follow those values, Sea_Gal, our child, and I will need to discuss how work through that issue, respectfully, together.

Truthfully, I didn't always have to this standard. I wish I had. Sex is so much better after being married. Premarital experiences made our first experiences together strained. How sad!










Husband to Sea Gal, father to 1 dd, born at home waterbirth!







:


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## Marcee

I voted after marriage as it corresponds with our personal beliefs. I will teach the same values to my sons and daughters. However I will continue to be open and accepting with them.


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## Arduinna

I kinda wish the thread title was "How Comfortable are you with YOUR sexually active teen". Because it's so easy to say what someone plans to do when one has an infant or toddler or even elementary age child. I'll be much more interested in the answer once one is the parent of a teenager.


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## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
I kinda wish the thread title was "How Comfortable are you with YOUR sexually active teen". Because it's so easy to say what someone plans to do when one has an infant or toddler or even elementary age child. I'll be much more interested in the answer once one is the parent of a teenager.

You underestimate the power of deep-seated spiritual beliefs.

Thank you for your courage and candor, Sea_Guy.


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## Arduinna

My post wasn't specifically directed at anyones spiritual beliefs, it was directed at anyone who hasn't actually parented a teenager regardless of their position. Oh and FTR ones beliefs don't need to be religious or spiritually based to be deep seated. Regardless there is a huge difference in talking about hypotheticals 12 years from now and actually having the experience of parenting a teenager though.


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## intorainbowz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
My post wasn't specifically directed at anyones spiritual beliefs, it was directed at anyone who hasn't actually parented a teenager regardless of their position.

There is a 12 year gap between me and my youngest sister. Because we had the same mother who gave incomplete information, she came to me. I gave her the same guidance I will give DD, which is to wait. I don't see that changing.

And if my little sister came to me and told me she was active, I would assist her with an appointment with a doc for BC and have a LONG discussion with her about sex and its consequesces.

I don't ever see my beliefs changing as I agree with Sea_Guy and alisaterry.

I agree with Sea_Guy's post. I was a virgin, DH was not. I know he regrets that he had other partners before me.


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## terrordactyl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
14??? Yeah, not in the states. Maybe Arkansas. But I think even that has an age limit with the age of the partner-i.e. the bf over the age of 16, 18, whatever.

yes actually it is. and i know this because it is 14 in the state of new mexico


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## Arduinna

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
There is a 12 year gap between me and my youngest sister. Because we had the same mother who gave incomplete information, she came to me. I gave her the same guidance I will give DD, which is to wait. I don't see that changing.


So? My sister is 10 years younger than me and I gave her BC advice too. Big deal, that didn't make me her parent.


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## intorainbowz

I should have added that my mother was very ill for many years while my sister was growing up, and we had a work a holic father. I did a lot of her "raising".


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## Arduinna

I'm sorry your mom was so ill, I'm sure that was hard. My mom was pretty absent from my sisters life also, but due to divorce. It sucks when kids are missing out on having active parents.


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## guestmama9911

That argument is no more true and equally annoying as the people who hear we don't spank and say "Just wait until you actually have to parent a (put in the age of the child here)."

I do not think the reality of raising a teenager is going to force me to change my values. Maybe my approach to those values, yes, but not my values.


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## UUMom

MY oldest is 18, and I had the same feelings about sexuality and young teens when he was a newborn as I do now. I very much wanted/want my children to wait until they were not children to be intimately involved with someone, and I always shared that. Dh and I are very open about disucssions on sexuality, and while there was *never* shame involved, we have always made it clear that we believe sex is a big deal, emotionally and physically. We've discourgaed young teens and sex, and we can't honestly say we would aide and abet.

But that does not mean we are blind and ignorant to teens and their budding sexuality. Sex is wonderful, under the right circumstances, and there is no down side whatseover to not having sex at a young age. If we thought there was harm in our young children not being sexually active, we'd rethink the deal. Orgasms do not require a partner, remember.


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## Shenjall

I do agree with what Arduinna is saying. It _is_ hard to really say what you plan on doing 10-15 years from now. And parenting a toddler is different from parenting a teen. It can be quite humbling in fact,









When my kids were very little I told myself that when it came to sex, I was going to be very open and if they wanted to have partners sleep over, it would be fine, etc, etc, etc. Now that I actually have teens who are dating, both dh and I have changed our minds. While we are still a very open family about sex, as in, "mom whats a clitoris? pass the carrots please?" We are encouraging our children to wait until they are at least adults and in a committed relationship. And there will be no sleepovers in our home. For us, its not pregancy or stds that we worry about, its really about the emotional aspect of sex. We personally feel that its too much for a teen to handle, and yes, I am well aware that there are some teens out there who are mature enough to handle it, but for now, we know, our ds is not.

Of course, this may all change for our next children when they start dating, so we are keeping an open mind, but overall, we're encouraging waiting.


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## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
MY oldest is 18, and I had the same feelings about sexuality and young teens when he was a newborn as I do now. I very much wanted/want my children to wait until they were not children to be intimately involved with someone, and I always shared that. Dh and I are very open about disucssions on sexuality, and while there was *never* shame involved, we have always made it clear that we believe sex is a big deal, emotionally and physically. We've discourgaed young teens and sex, and we can't honestly say we would aide and abet.

But that does not mean we are blind and ignorant to teens and their budding sexuality. Sex is wonderful, under the right circumstances, and there is no down side whatseover to not having sex at a young age. If we thought there was harm in our young children not being sexually active, we'd rethink the deal. Orgasms do not require a partner, remember.

I want to be a fly on the wall at your house when you talk to your kids!
My parents always said "no sex before marriage" but I did and I kept it from them. Even after my mom would say "Well, if you are you probably wouldn't talk to me about it" Well duh, you didn't exactly leave that door open ya know. It was kind of all or nothing and I guess I thought even entertaining the idea would be too much of a disappointment to her. (She had me at 15 so I can see where her overanxiousness came from) I am really interested to know what kind of conversations you parents had with your teens. I really think that I will try to leave out the "No sex before marriage" part as an answer to questions about sex and focus much more on the fact that sex within the context of a commited relationship is so much more fufilling. Is that what you have tried to do? It just feels like making - don't do this statements shut the door of communication and that is definately not what I want.


----------



## rayo de sol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
these hypothetical situations with gay teens/adults really do not apply to this thread. however, my standard of chastity applies to every teen in my house, regardless of "orientation". what happens after they are teens is out of the scope of this thread.









:

1. Many of the scenarios we are talking about on this thread are hypothetical.

2. We are talking about teen sex. That includes the possibility of gay teen sex.

3. Your "standard of chastity" is "no sex before marriage," right? So if you're saying that applies even if your child is gay, when does he/she get to have sex with your blessing?

4. To exclude sexual orientation from the discussion would be homophobic.


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## the_lissa

Exactly. Gay teens and gay sex is definitely applicable in this thread.


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## orangefoot

I voted a while back but didn't feel the need to add a comment. I see where Arduinna is coming from in saying what she says about those presently without teens and their responses.

I think the difference is that as a toddler you can imagine him or her as a potentially sexually active teen and that image is entirely in your control.

The reality is very different and looking at my teen, handsome and charming surrounded by girls who are obviously attracted to him makes the question of his sexuality and the expression of it much more about him than it is about me.

Ultimately we can only guide him; he will make his own choices and we will have to find a way to feel comfortable with his choices.

eta OT our house is ec and poo friendly


----------



## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I want to be a fly on the wall at your house when you talk to your kids!
My parents always said "no sex before marriage" but I did and I kept it from them. Even after my mom would say "Well, if you are you probably wouldn't talk to me about it" Well duh, you didn't exactly leave that door open ya know. It was kind of all or nothing and I guess I thought even entertaining the idea would be too much of a disappointment to her. (She had me at 15 so I can see where her overanxiousness came from) I am really interested to know what kind of conversations you parents had with your teens. I really think that I will try to leave out the "No sex before marriage" part as an answer to questions about sex and focus much more on the fact that sex within the context of a commited relationship is so much more fufilling. Is that what you have tried to do? It just feels like making - don't do this statements shut the door of communication and that is definately not what I want.

We've never said "don't do it!' lol We are frank...sex is wonderful when you're really ready. Attraction to others is natural. Masturbation is natural, and a way humans can enjoy their own bodies without having to share, or later, by sharing.







Basically we say "Sex is a big deal emotionally, in our experience. You make yourself physically and emotionally vulnerable to another person and that can be difficult when you are young". And, 'It's ok and nnatural to think about sex, and it's ok to not have sex right now". Having sex can wait until you are really ready. etc

I would think a friend who wanted to have sex with one of my kids would put a little extra pressure on them if they knew I would put condoms in the nightstand and let them sleep over. I don't see why I would want to do that. I don't see how it would benefit my child in any way.

My kids are very open about talking about sex-- well most of the time...sometimes they think I talk too much.







Even teens raised in open homes don't necessarily want to talk lots. We have also told them that when they think they are ready we would want to talk to them about it, and that we hope they would be comfortable talikng to us about it. We would also want to know how they are feeling, and if they have questions, and we would want to know if they truly want to have sex with someone, or if they are feeling pressured into having sex with someone.

So while we are respectful, we have discouraged early sexual activity. When it was common for girls to have babies in their early teens, their life expectancies weren't 87 years as is a life expectancy now. So the time frame is different these days, imo. We do not discourage with shame, or with angry threats. We do so because there is great vulnerability and extra worry for a teen when they become sexually active before they are truly ready. That is what we share with our kids. That is what *we* believe.

If people think their kids are truly ready, I can see why condoms in a little basket and an open door policy for sleepovers seems safe and appealing. We don't believe our young teens are emotionally ready, even if they appear to be physically ready. Therefore we try to be respectful in our wait/take your time/we- understand -the- tremendous- changes- you're- going- through -physically- and -emotionally mode. In every way, however, dh and I strive to be open and respectful of our children.

I am not saying our way is the answer, but it is what we are comfortable with for our family. This respects our authentic selves as parents. The kids seem to be very open and comfortable as well. So far, we've not seen negative repercussions wrt our approach in our particular family.


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## Bestbirths

I have the teenagers going through dating and have a 14 yr old who's idea of a fun activity is to go to a teen dance club, so I feel like I can speak for someone who actually has teenagers and is going through it right now. I think that discussion of gay and lesbian relationships does go in this thread too. A lot of the concerns about teen sex are relieved for me in a gay or lesbian relationship. But still, I agree with the people who say regardless of gender, sex is really an adult activity, which takes adult level maturity to deal with the emotions and spiritual connections that go along with it.


----------



## alaskaberry

my parents never discussed it with us, they never even wanted us on bc (well, except my sister, but she needed it to regulate her horrific cramps). OTOH, at my best friend's house, we could have sex as long as no one heard it and we cleaned up after ourselves. but that was after his mom died--she NEVER would have allowed it. Therefore, I've decided to have the best of both worlds when my son is old enough--discussion, and sex will be ok. I mean, not when he's 12, I hope. But I don't want him to feel like he has to hide it. I was 22 and I was hiding the fact that I was "fornicating"(I say that in quotes because my mother is Christian and I am not). I mean, c'mon!


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## cocopop71

I voted for none of the above because I think it would depend on :

*Age* (big one)....hand in hand with.....

Maturity

Situation of my child's relationship

And always after much discussion (I hope) about consequences and choices









And I have a teenager.


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## sunnysideup

UUMom-- I am where you are on this. My oldest is 14, so I am open to the idea that my feelings might change... but I've always tried to convey my opinion that sex is a Big Deal, and it's best when you're emotionally ready, with a loving partner.

I am UU too, and I am wondering, did you (or your teens) participate in the UU sexuality class? I ask because I think that program is good at conveying exactly the message you are talking about--_sex can be wonderful, here's how... but it's also not something to take lightly, here's why..._


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## Bestbirths

Quote:

I was 22 and I was hiding the fact that I was "fornicating"(I say that in quotes because my mother is Christian and I am not). I mean, c'mon!
OT The word fornicating reminds me of the movie "Hook" where Robin Williams has a hissy fit over the mating rang of owls "fornicating" over a 50 mile radius and why don't they go "fornicate" somewhere else. Anyone Remember that movie?


----------



## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
UUMom-- I am where you are on this. My oldest is 14, so I am open to the idea that my feelings might change... but I've always tried to convey my opinion that sex is a Big Deal, and it's best when you're emotionally ready, with a loving partner.

I am UU too, and I am wondering, did you (or your teens) participate in the UU sexuality class? I ask because I think that program is good at conveying exactly the message you are talking about--_sex can be wonderful, here's how... but it's also not something to take lightly, here's why..._

Yep. My oldest did the old AYS (About Your Sexuality) program a few years ago, and my younger teens are scheduled to participate in OWL (Our Whole Lives) this spring.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
We've never said "don't do it!' lol We are frank...sex is wonderful when you're really ready. Attraction to others is natural. Masturbation is natural, and a way humans can enjoy their own bodies without having to share, or later, by sharing.







Basically we say "Sex is a big deal emotionally, in our experience. You make yourself physically and emotionally vulnerable to another person and that can be difficult when you are young". And, 'It's ok and nnatural to think about sex, and it's ok to not have sex right now". Having sex can wait until you are really ready. etc

I would think a friend who wanted to have sex with one of my kids would put a little extra pressure on them if they knew I would put condoms in the nightstand and let them sleep over. I don't see why I would want to do that. I don't see how it would benefit my child in any way.

My kids are very open about talking about sex-- well most of the time...sometimes they think I talk too much.







Even teens raised in open homes don't necessarily want to talk lots. We have also told them that when they think they are ready we would want to talk to them about it, and that we hope they would be comfortable talikng to us about it. We would also want to know how they are feeling, and if they have questions, and we would want to know if they truly want to have sex with someone, or if they are feeling pressured into having sex with someone.

So while we are respectful, we have discouraged early sexual activity. When it was common for girls to have babies in their early teens, their life expectancies weren't 87 years as is a life expectancy now. So the time frame is different these days, imo. We do not discourage with shame, or with angry threats. We do so because there is great vulnerability and extra worry for a teen when they become sexually active before they are truly ready. That is what we share with our kids. That is what *we* believe.

If people think their kids are truly ready, I can see why condoms in a little basket and an open door policy for sleepovers seems safe and appealing. We don't believe our young teens are emotionally ready, even if they appear to be physically ready. Therefore we try to be respectful in our wait/take your time/we- understand -the- tremendous- changes- you're- going- through -physically- and -emotionally mode. In every way, however, dh and I strive to be open and respectful of our children.

I am not saying our way is the answer, but it is what we are comfortable with for our family. This respects our authentic selves as parents. The kids seem to be very open and comfortable as well. So far, we've not seen negative repercussions wrt our approach in our particular family.


Thank you so much for your thorough response







Definately more the way we are wanting to approach it all. I appreciate your willingness to share.


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## GalateaDunkel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
I would think a friend who wanted to have sex with one of my kids would put a little extra pressure on them if they knew I would put condoms in the nightstand and let them sleep over. I don't see why I would want to do that. I don't see how it would benefit my child in any way.

Thank you for saying this. As the mother of a girl I am a lot more interested in empowering her *not* to have sex, considering that we live in a society where *all* other influences tend *heavily* in the opposite direction.

Your points about not needing a partner for orgasm are also well taken. Actually I think that teenage girls, particularly, are a lot more likely to climax without a partner than with one. I suspect that a lot of girls out there are having perfunctory, one-sided, phallocentric experiences because society's obsession with "openness" and the myth that it is completely unrealistic for teens to say no have taken away all rationale for them to say no to sex. In fact if you look at the information that has come out about the prevalence of oral sex among an increasingly younger age group, the sex they're having is _literally_ one-sided and phallocentric. If you create a situation where the only possible reason not to have sex is because you simply don't want to, you're going to end up with a lot of kids having sex _even though_ they don't want to. Because not wanting to is not something that is OK in every relationship or every peer group among teens. Far from it. You might lose the relationship or be branded prude, queer, or make your boyfriend think you don't love him, etc. Inconvenience and parental discouragement are a bulwark of protection for girls caught in that situation. And I am a lot more concerned about providing that protection in case she doesn't want to have sex, than I am about the possibility of friction in our relationship (like friction between moms and teen daughters is avoidable, anyway?!) if she does want to and I dare to be the only voice trying to dissuade her.


----------



## sibelius

i think i made it pretty clear that teen sex will not be enabled under my roof, regardless of orientation. as for what happens after they are teens, that is in fact out of the scope of this thread. this thread being about teen sex, by the way.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulatara* 
I am about to go back and read the whole thread, but I just wanted to tell you I think you are an amazing mom.

ITA, I can only hope to be that cool.

And pray that my children are quiet.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
That's too funny!









I'm the one that said until 30. My babies are my babies, dang it. I don't want to think of it that way, just like I don't want to know of my brothers (who I raised) in that way, or see my kids driving a car. It's scary to me. I don't think sex is shameful, but something private that your parents don't need to know about. I would never tell my parents about my sex life, not from shame, but because it's my business.

And I was allowed to drink, etc. in the house. So were many of my friends. But that didn't mean that we didn't drink outside of the house. Teens are teens. You do some stupid stuff, just like many adults do, for that matter. Just because something is condoned one place, doesn't mean that you won't find other ways, because that's what makes it exciting, right?









I have thought about getting my kids a book about sex when they are older (is it good vibes that has the good one about safety and everything else?) so that they don't have to find out the hard way and so I know they get the right info. But that doesn't mean I expect, condone, or want them to have sex yet. Sex can be a beautiful thing, but it can also be painful and affect you for the rest of your life.

So I guess I will bow out since apparently my view is unwanted here.

I don't totally disagree with you here, but I want to tell you something shocking a coworker told me about 10 years ago.

Her 11 year old niece was no longer a virgin. Why? She felt like she had to have sex because she was _the only one of her friends who hadn't done it yet!_ She didn't want to, but she felt like such an outsider she did it anyway.

So, maybe we're going to have to have these conversations earlier than we would like.


----------



## ryansma

I have tried to go back and read all the posts but I haven't gotten through all of them yet so please excuse if this has been asked. Do you parents that allow sex in your home - allowing sleep overs and providing birth control for your teens- inform your child's partners parents or tell them to do so? If I was a parent who was trying to teach/encourage my child to abstain I think it would not sit well with me that someone else was helping make that decision for my child. As a parent you may know YOUR child but how well do you know MINE? And just because your dc and mine are in a relationship and she is ready doesn't mean HE is. Also, does anyone else see a condoning (sometimes seemingly encouraging)parent as another form of pressure on a child who may not really want to? i.e "Well so and so's parents must thing we are ready/mature enough if they will let us do it in their house and provide us with birth control so it must be okay".


----------



## Caledvwlch

deleted


----------



## rayo de sol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I suspect that a lot of girls out there are having perfunctory, one-sided, phallocentric experiences because society's obsession with "openness" and the myth that it is completely unrealistic for teens to say no have taken away all rationale for them to say no to sex. In fact if you look at the information that has come out about the prevalence of oral sex among an increasingly younger age group, the sex they're having is _literally_ one-sided and phallocentric. If you create a situation where the only possible reason not to have sex is because you simply don't want to, you're going to end up with a lot of kids having sex _even though_ they don't want to. Because not wanting to is not something that is OK in every relationship or every peer group among teens. Far from it. You might lose the relationship or be branded prude, queer, or make your boyfriend think you don't love him, etc.

The above is such a good point that you're making me reconsider my whole position in this debate.














(Quick, someone from the other side save me!







) Peer pressure should definitely be taken into account during talks about sex with a teen. But I would still *never* say anything like, "No sex in my house," or, "No sex before adulthood," and especially not what I consider to be the inherently homophobic, "No sex before marriage."


----------



## Twinklefae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
Most girls that i know regret having had sex too soon. i have yet to meet someone who regrets having waited.

ME ME ME!!! I do, and I know that I have several friends who do. Especially the one who now, at 25 has men run from a relationship with her because no one wants to be the one to take her virginity. So now she is UNABLE to have an adult relationship because she was "waiting".

I personally really glad I didn't wait to be married, as I think it would have been the end of my marriage. (The one that hasn't happened yet...) I am a confident sexual being BECAUSE I have had sexual experiences wit different partners in different situations. I've told my DF before, that we wouldn't be together today if I was a virgin when we met. Why? Because I would have been so shy and scared that our sexual relationship would have been awful!

ETA: I haven't read all the posts but really wanted to present the facts from the other side of this fence!


----------



## mamakarata

Until you walk in someones shoes....

That keeps coming to my mind. If you asked me before faced with our exact situation, I probably would have selected "other" on my poll. I realize how much our situation depended upon our circumstances and who my DD is.

It is true that there are so many problems with our society and it's thinking toward sex, that all one can _do_ is talk talk talk.

It's impossible to convey the extent or breadth of our talks leading and extending through our present situation.

Some of those things we talked about were the obvious issues of peer pressure, STD's, and pregnancy, along with the importance of being with someone whom you were comfortable enough and open enough to talk talk talk about those same issues. For us it's all about self empowerment.

As time went on we addressed many of the messages we get on a daily basis without even realizing it. Many of them concerning the weight placed on a girls virginity rather than the boys.

Like, why are their so many words for a womans promiscuity and not for mens? The male words are associated to a compliment of sorts. "Don Juan", "Ladies Man" The only one that has any negative connotation is "male slut" but only because it uses a female word "slut" to lend to it's negativity.

For women you have "whore, slut, trash, spent, used, gash" the list goes on and on.

We talked about how this trend in a male dominated society possibly comes from the male ego feeling threatened by a womans sexuality.

So then you have the feminist movement to counter that- women reclaiming their power. Reclaiming their sexuality. Not allowing their virginity to somehow lend toward their value toward commitment. Not allowing themselves to be treated like a commodity. (To explain what my DD means when she made her own statement on this thread) -

but then left unchecked, how this movement could potentially create a NEW pressure for girls to prove themselves yet again by being callous and detached from sex in general. (as addressed in an earlier post)

And we talked about the pressure for young men. Why are they assumed to be callous and not care? But what if they DO care? Are they too sensitive? Mama's boys?

And then all of the opinions and baggage flying around about what is right or wrong. Religion and the institution of marriage. Misunderstandings, misogyny, the white dress, the Madonna/Whore complex.

When we handed my DD her first book about bodies, changes and sex, she was 9 yo and told us, literally, that she was so relieved because so many kids were talking about what they knew and she felt completely out of the loop and didn't know what to believe.

We were shocked. It didn't matter that she was in a private school filled with doting parents! The kids were talking. We weren't even sure if the timing was right, but just knew that kids can start changing around that time so just went for it. That began the many years of talks.

Like it or not, this is the society we live in. And we are a house without T.V! Which is of FILLED with so much sex and titillating images to grab your attention and confuse a growing mind.

We had to find a balance - to convey our concerns, and remain realistic to her surroundings and the opinions she began to form.

We taught independent thinking, and we got an independently thinking teenager. Who met and adores another independently thinking young man. Who put NO pressure on her whatsoever as it turns out. And who is missing his GF intensely while she is away for 5 months on her foreign exchange.

She can drive a car, she is 17 months from being able to vote, (but oh so wishes she could vote in 2008!) she can handle her menstruation, calculus, and attend school in a foreign country. She isn't a mindless teenager. She is young, but she is powerful and intelligent, and totally opinionated. I wouldn't want it any other way.

We weren't sure when or how it was going to play out with my DD first having sex, but how it worked out, is that she is having her first experience in an environment where she feels close to her BF, and close to us, and we can all (including her BF) talk openly about it. They are so supported and conscious and in the moment. It's just how it worked out for us.

I can't say with my DS how it will play out. We will take it as it comes. Address the same issues, and stay with him. His maturity and attitude will surely develop at it's own pace.

And in light of that, I will say that as no two people are alike, no two teens are alike.

I posted earlier that my DD is totally happy and got a comment back that "all teens are happy with their boyfriends until they lose them".

As if somehow her happiness isn't valid because she is only a teen? As if her happiness only comes from being with her BF?

To make a blanket statement of what "all" teens feel or think is IMO a huge problem toward staying connected to them. Not to mention condescending.

I don't relish the day that her heart gets broken. No one does. This is one of many decisions she came to with tons of love, guidance, communication, openness, support, and maturity. And it certainly isn't about "proving how open I am" as one poster commented- which was cold-hearted in it's implication toward my original post.

It's about encouraging and supporting who my DD is. Despite many assumptions people make about "raising" teens, she is an amazing and wonderful teen who has and continues to be a total joy to us. I can only hope the same for all parents of teens.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
ME ME ME!!! I do, and I know that I have several friends who do. Especially the one who now, at 25 has men run from a relationship with her because no one wants to be the one to take her virginity. So now she is UNABLE to have an adult relationship because she was "waiting".

Ok but we can prob all agree that your friend is a VERY small minority.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
I personally really glad I didn't wait to be married, as I think it would have been the end of my marriage. (The one that hasn't happened yet...) I am a confident sexual being BECAUSE I have had sexual experiences wit different partners in different situations. I've told my DF before, that we wouldn't be together today if I was a virgin when we met. Why? Because I would have been so shy and scared that our sexual relationship would have been awful!


I don't think it's the worst thing if your sexual relationship needs work b/c you have waited. But we are talking about how to raise teens and help them understand the ramifications as well as the benefits of sex within a meaningful relationship. I don't think it would be productive to tell a teen. "I personally really glad I didn't wait to be married, as I think it would have been the end of my marriage. (The one that hasn't happened yet...) I am a confident sexual being BECAUSE I have had sexual experiences wit different partners in different situations. " They don't all have the ability to see very far beyond their current situation and hormones to know that you aren't saying that casual sex is okay.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 

We weren't sure when or how it was going to play out with my DD first having sex, but how it worked out, is that she is having her first experience in an environment where she feels close to her BF, and close to us, and we can all (including her BF) talk openly about it. They are so supported and conscious and in the moment. It's just how it worked out for us.

And in light of that, I will say that as no two people are alike, no two teens are alike.


I cut and paste my questions from post 202 (I think??) in response to this
_Do you parents that allow sex in your home - allowing sleep overs and providing birth control for your teens- inform your child's partners parents or tell them to do so? If I was a parent who was trying to teach/encourage my child to abstain I think it would not sit well with me that someone else was helping make that decision for my child. As a parent you may know YOUR child but how well do you know MINE? And just because your dc and mine are in a relationship and she is ready doesn't mean HE is. Also, does anyone else see a condoning (sometimes seemingly encouraging)parent as another form of pressure on a child who may not really want to? i.e "Well so and so's parents must thing we are ready/mature enough if they will let us do it in their house and provide us with birth control so it must be okay"._


----------



## mamakarata

In our case BF's parents and I are on the same page. Honesty is our *only* policy.

As to the 2nd part of your question (which is a good question!)- yeah I totally can see how parents condoning and even encouraging it could be a pressure in and of itself.

So we talked about that too. We tried to leave no stone unturned. If she later wishes she hadn't had sex, then we'll talk about that too. It's not a perfect science. Nor is it some theory that applies to all.

It's our real life example that is happening now. And we are really happy for them!


----------



## Bestbirths

: if my dd was in a similar situation she would be an exchange student 6,000 miles away from her bf too.


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## Susie1

All teenagers are different. I think the most important part of this is a very positive attitude about sex and sexuality. I think it is wise to discourage any kind of sex that one does not feel ready for.

If sex is in the context of safety, maturity and respect -- then I see nothing wrong with it. It is joyful and natural. We are made to do it.

I also think it is imperative that safe sex is a topic along with other safety/hygeine discussions. Everyone needs this info and has the right to access to those items which keep them healthy and safe.


----------



## operamommy

Really thought-provoking thread.

Our house "policy" is that sex is for adults, and a teenager is not an adult. We're very open about sexuality, birth control, and the reasons why we feel the way that we do. Our two oldest know that sex is a very enjoyable thing that people desire - and that it is a natural, healthy desire. If at some point in their teens they choose to engage in a sexual relationship, then I expect them to be mature enough to handle the details themselves. If I need to check and make certain they have enough condoms then I feel they aren't responsible enough to be having sex.


----------



## ananas

Quote:


Originally Posted by *operamommy* 
If at some point in their teens they choose to engage in a sexual relationship, then I expect them to be mature enough to handle the details themselves. If I need to check and make certain they have enough condoms then I feel they aren't responsible enough to be having sex.

I am honestly stunned by this attitude.







:

That's all I can say tonight, but I'll be back in the morning.


----------



## oliveoildog

Quote:

have tried to go back and read all the posts but I haven't gotten through all of them yet so please excuse if this has been asked. Do you parents that allow sex in your home - allowing sleep overs and providing birth control for your teens- inform your child's partners parents or tell them to do so? If I was a parent who was trying to teach/encourage my child to abstain I think it would not sit well with me that someone else was helping make that decision for my child. As a parent you may know YOUR child but how well do you know MINE? And just because your dc and mine are in a relationship and she is ready doesn't mean HE is. Also, does anyone else see a condoning (sometimes seemingly encouraging)parent as another form of pressure on a child who may not really want to? i.e "Well so and so's parents must thing we are ready/mature enough if they will let us do it in their house and provide us with birth control so it must be okay".
Excellent post.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susie1* 
All teenagers are different. I think the most important part of this is a very positive attitude about sex and sexuality. I think it is wise to discourage any kind of sex that one does not feel ready for.

I agree. Part of my job as a parent is to help my teen understand that she/he is not ready whether they _feel_ like it or not. Unless you can honestly say that your child is ready to be a parent then I don't feel like you can say they are ready for sex.

Mamakarata I appreciate your last response. And I respect that you have found what works with your teen. I would not be my choice but I also admire how open the lines of communication are in your home. I could never see saying that I am happy for my teen daughter being in a sexual relationship. Mostly because I know I would not be very happy if she ended up pregnant because I know that being a teenage mother is hard and may keep her from acheiving her other goals in life.


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## AllisonR

My goodness folks, it's just sex. I wish I had access to Planned Parenthood when I needed it so many years ago. I wish my parents were not so religious and frigid, so I could have talked to them openly and honestly about sex, sexuality, boys, hormones, feelings.... instead it was sneaking off in the dark. I hated the undiscussed undertone of "sex is dirty and sinful, so save it for marriage." With that twisted view, seems like you should marry someone you hate, instead of someone you love.

I voted in the home after discussing. Penis has already come up with DS, and he is only 2.5 years old. So I think discussing should be anytime, not just when I think they are ready, at say age 10 or 12, because that is way too late. Perhaps they will ask different things about sex at 8 or 6 or 4? My DH and I are, and will be open about sex and all the details, beautiful and ugly. If DS or DD need birth control, then we will get it and pay for it.

I had sex before marriage, so I wouldn't expect my kids to wait. That would be like me smoking and then telling them not to. I also think it would be odd if a person I was dating said they were waiting for marriage. I would wonder if there was some sort of physical problem. Certainly sex is not the number one thing in a marriage, not even number 2 or 3.... but it does matter, and it is important in a healthy relationship.


----------



## daniedb

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelpie545* 
This is kind of a difficult one for me. FWIW, I will be teaching my children to wait until marriage to have sex, because I believe that this is the best way. However, I didn't follow that, and my current children know that, b/c they were both conceived with my high school boyfriend. They know that my current dh is not their father, though he has raised them and they call him dad. So, I am not going to be hypocritical and do the whole "do as I say not as I do" thing. I despise that attitude.

If, despite what I tell them, they do choose to have sex outside of marriage, I would ask that they refrain from doing it in the house. I will provide complete and accurate information about birth control, condoms, and STDs to them, and I would never turn them away if they got pregnant, of if any future son of mine impregnants a girl. After all, I got pregnant as a teen and it was the best thing to ever happen to me, so I would support my pregnant daughter in every way I could.









: Basically, that's what our values are. Minus the pregnancies from a previous boyfriend, I somehow managed to not get PG before I got married, I don't know how.









I will teach my children that sex is a sacred bond and intimacy reserved for marriage, being honest about the difficulties that can arise should they choose to engage in sex before marriage. I also intend to be as open as I feel appropriate about my past, but how many sons want to talk about their mamas' sex lives?









If they choose to have sex, it will not change how much I love and care for them. However, I am absolutely opposed, at this point in my life, to allowing it to happen in my home and will not assist in providing them a place to do it. If my son is old enough to choose to have sex, then he should be old enough to be able to provide a comfortable, safe place for the woman in question.
I haven't read past this response, so excuse me if the topic has veered wildly and I am irrelevant at this point.


----------



## daniedb

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
ah fertility awareness...that's how we ended up with five children!









So I think it is important to teach fa from an early age so you really know your body. I started learning it inbetween #3 and #4 and made a couple miscalculations to have #4 and #5. I'd like to start teaching fa at the onset of menarche.

Ditto. I plan to teach the boys all about what I've learned about FA and hopefully, they will be able to use that information instead of feeling helpless because their partner is freaking out when she gets goopy CM and thinks she has an infection and they start thinking they have an STD.


----------



## operamommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ananas* 
I am honestly stunned by this attitude.







:

That's all I can say tonight, but I'll be back in the morning.

I for one an "stunned" by your response!









If you don't get my opinion, that's cool, and I certainly don't mind answering any questions you have. But I do kinda mind the snark.









I didn't say they wouldn't have access to birth control or information, mind you. What I was implying was that I didn't feel it was my responsibilty to check up on them constantly. I honestly feel if they aren't old enough to handle keeping up-to-date with their birth control then they don't need to be having sex. This goes for anyone of any age. Sorry.


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *operamommy* 
I for one an "stunned" by your response!









If you don't get my opinion, that's cool, and I certainly don't mind answering any questions you have. But I do kinda mind the snark.









I didn't say they wouldn't have access to birth control or information, mind you. What I was implying was that I didn't feel it was my responsibilty to check up on them constantly. I honestly feel if they aren't old enough to handle keeping up-to-date with their birth control then they don't need to be having sex. This goes for anyone of any age. Sorry.









I agree with you. If they aren't responsible enough to get their own bc when it runs out, or ask for help to get it (need a ride, etc.), then they aren't responsible enough, in my book, for me to condone the behavior and allow it in my house.


----------



## Blu Razzberri

I don't have time to read this thread entirely, and I won't be back. But here's my take...

It's not a question that can be answered in a general sense. There are many factors to consider (the teens ages, maturity, honesty, etc). In this case, your child seems to be mature and responsible, and she's not being promiscuous as she's kept a steady boyfriend. If she feels ready and you feel that she's able to make that decision, then I see no problem in supporting it. Many parents forget that forbidding it doesn't mean it's not going to happen and that it's better to be there to offer guideance and help keep him/her on the right track.

By you and the boys parents working together on this, you help your kids to be safe about it. If they have to sneak around, they're less likely to take precautions. This is a great thing, kudos to you (and to his parents) for being supportive of their decisions and for being there when they need guideance!


----------



## mamawanabe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sibelius* 
most girls that i know regret having had sex too soon. i have yet to meet someone who regrets having waited.

I do. I was 23. I've only had two partners (including dh). I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with sex if I had had sex with my long term highschool boyfriend and maybe one or two of my short-term college boyfriends.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have sex at 17 with my hs boyfriend and I can think of two good guys from college that I casually dated who I'd sleep with if I had to do it all over again.

I'm sorry I missed the experiences. I love my dh (he is the best) and so there is no getting those experiences now or ever. I missed my chance.


----------



## Susie1

I was just looking at poll results and had to just be amazed at the one that says "just not in the house, please!"

Now that attitude is giving sex a bad name. If it is something you condone, but not in my house -- then something is wrong with it! You think it's bad, nasty or uncomfortable at best.

mmmmhhhh

Now the after marriage choice is not necessarily couched in yucky feelings about having sex as a married adult -- just as an unmarried person!

Geez mateez.

And look at our sex-crazed culture -- gettin it so wrong most of the time. Maybe that is why so many on this poll seem scared of sex.


----------



## CorasMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lanamommyphd07* 
I also found a joint in her room once, but I didn't bust her--merely dumped some cayenne pepper in and re-rolled it. [...] and has this strange aversion to pot.


----------



## intorainbowz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susie1* 
And look at our sex-crazed culture -- gettin it so wrong most of the time. Maybe that is why so many on this poll seem scared of sex.

I voted not until marraige, and I'm by no means scared of sex. I have religious beliefs which state abstinance before marraige, fidelity after.


----------



## guestmama9911

Quote:


Originally Posted by *intorainbowz* 
I voted not until marraige, and I'm by no means scared of sex. I have religious beliefs which state abstinance before marraige, fidelity after.

Exactly. There is a big difference between being afraid of sex and giving it a very sacred and precious place.


----------



## CorasMama

I don't believe "sex is dirty and sinful, so save it for marriage". I believe sex is beautiful and wonderful and incredibly intimate and sacred, so save it for marriage.

I wish I had been taught this by people I loved and respected. But I only heard it from the nuns, and came with a message of sinfulness, so it was easily dismissed. (My parents were very liberal, but sent me to Catholic school for the education.)

I hope and truly pray that Cora waits for marriage. I believe that there are physical, emotional, and spiritual ramifications to pre- or extra-marital sex, which I wish for her to not have to experience.

I love Cora to the ends of the universe and back, and I wouldn't trade her for anything. But I wish I'd been older and married when I had her.

I also don't want her to do as so many do, and get married too early or for the wrong reason or to the wrong man because she/they want to have sex. So I'm gonna teach her that masturbation (in moderation) is perfectly acceptable, even wonderful and beautiful, way to "deal with" certain urges! And how better to train for when she has to be quiet later to keep from waking her dc, than if she starts masturbating while still in a room next to mine!


----------



## anubis

I don't have experience of raising teenagers (heck, we're still TTC#1), but it wasn't that long ago that I was a teenager myself.

I lost my virginity at the ripe old age of 13. Not by choice, mind you, but by force. I can't even begin to say how glad I am that my mother wasn't of the "save yourself" camp. When stuff like that happens, you feel dirty enough without having added baggage from some imaginary value tagged on the hymen. And no, I honestly don't think that, after years of "save yourself for the right one", telling a kid who has been raped that it doesn't count would really cut it.

Not to mention that I'd find it horrible if people who had consentual sex with a caring partner had to feel dirty or guilty for it. Is it really not enough that people with actually unhealthy sexual experiences have to battle with feelings of shame and guilt, with low self esteem and self respect, for years, sometimes even decades? Do we have to make people feel like that for simply having sex?

My mum's aunt is very religious. She says sex before marriage is a "crime against one's own body and soul". I wouldn't want my kid to feel like they've been violated, and like they're also the violator, by imposing artificial age limits on perfectly normal human behaviour. The aunt in question also never got married, because she apparently feels "spoiled" because she kissed a boy at the age of 8. She doesn't think any man would want to be with someone who "wasted herself" and didn't wait. I know this is an extreme example, and the aunt here has other... peculiarities as well. But I do find it alarming that someone would want their kid to think that their worth is tied to their virginity. And let's face it, that's the message behind the whole "save youself" bit.

You don't actually lose anything by having sex. I don't know what the current market value for hymens is, but I can't help but think that anyone who suggests that I've given up or lost something, or that I'm dirty or worth less because I've had sex and am not married, is just begging for a punch in the face. Last I checked I wasn't just a vagina on legs.

I also find the underlying notion that kids belong to their parents until relinquished to the care of another person (via marriage) just plain scary. By that logic, my mum who never married would still belong to her mother and dead father. That must suck at her age. Oh, but all people should get married and have children, and if they don't they're not worth as much as the ones who do. Ah, the hetero-christian utopia. Where men are providers, women are mothers, and children are property.

Personally, I have no intention to raise my kids to be perfect, spotless, squeaky-clean partners. I was kinda hoping to raise humans who do human things, including sex. Whether they choose to wait until marriage or not is their call. I'll provide information based on facts, without judging. They're going to have to rely on their own good judgement, 'cause they ain't getting any of that from me.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe* 
I do. I was 23. I've only had two partners (including dh). I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with sex if I had had sex with my long term highschool boyfriend and maybe one or two of my short-term college boyfriends.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have sex at 17 with my hs boyfriend and I can think of two good guys from college that I casually dated who I'd sleep with if I had to do it all over again.

I'm sorry I missed the experiences. I love my dh (he is the best) and so there is no getting those experiences now or ever. I missed my chance.

I think it's sad that you feel like you missed out on something. I think it also speaks to this current culture of endorsing casual sex for just the reasons you stated.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susie1* 

And look at our sex-crazed culture -- gettin it so wrong most of the time. Maybe that is why so many on this poll seem scared of sex.

I don't think it's a bad thing to teach my teen not to just do what our "culture" is promoting. And if that means he looks at the majority and say that have gotten it wrong then so be it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 

She doesn't think any man would want to be with someone who "wasted herself" and didn't wait. I know this is an extreme example, and the aunt here has other... peculiarities as well. But I do find it alarming that someone would want their kid to think that their worth is tied to their virginity. And let's face it, that's the message behind the whole "save youself" bit.

You even said that was an extreme example. And I disagree that that is the message. We are talking about teens in this thread and most people who have posted that they hope their children wait have said it's because they would hope that their children would be emotionally ready for all that sex and it's inherent responsibilites entail.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
Personally, I have no intention to raise my kids to be perfect, spotless, squeaky-clean partners. I was kinda hoping to raise humans who do human things, including sex. Whether they choose to wait until marriage or not is their call. I'll provide information based on facts, without judging. They're going to have to rely on their own good judgement, 'cause they ain't getting any of that from me.

Just because a parent says they would like their teen to wait until marriage b/c that is when they think their child will be able to fully handle all the things that go with sex, does not mean they are trying to raise "spotless, perfect kids". Kind of a silly way to put it. We all know our kids are going to do things we don't like or necessarily think are the best decisions but that doesn't mean we should just not try. I think you can convey the reasons to wait and the ramifications of not waiting to a teen without all the guilt and extra crap ("the no one will want you, you are damaged comments"'- which I would NEVER say to anyone much less my child).


----------



## the_lissa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I think it's sad that you feel like you missed out on something. I think it also speaks to this current culture of endorsing casual sex for just the reasons you stated.


I think it is ridiculous that you are judging how she feels. I wish I had been with more people too.

I think it is sad that people are saving sex for marriage if youw ant to get into that.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I think it is ridiculous that you are judging how she feels. I wish I had been with more people too.

Okay so I 'm ridiculous then.







. I just think the grass is ALWAYS greener. I sort of wish I WOULDN'T have had as many experiences as I had so... that's where I was coming from on that. Our own experiences will color how we see this whole topic and more importantly how we raise our kids. And we are all on here to talk about it. And give our opinions/views. In the context of the thread - about sexually active teens - I don't know that saying to a teen "I wish I would have had more experiences" is the best route to go whether or not you include the whole wait until marriage or not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I think it is sad that people are saving sex for marriage if youw ant to get into that.

Ok.


----------



## orangefoot

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
I don't have experience of raising teenagers (heck, we're still TTC#1), but it wasn't that long ago that I was a teenager myself.

I lost my virginity at the ripe old age of 13. Not by choice, mind you, but by force. I can't even begin to say how glad I am that my mother wasn't of the "save yourself" camp. When stuff like that happens, you feel dirty enough without having added baggage from some imaginary value tagged on the hymen. And no, I honestly don't think that, after years of "save yourself for the right one", telling a kid who has been raped that it doesn't count would really cut it.

Not to mention that I'd find it horrible if people who had consentual sex with a caring partner had to feel dirty or guilty for it. Is it really not enough that people with actually unhealthy sexual experiences have to battle with feelings of shame and guilt, with low self esteem and self respect, for years, sometimes even decades? Do we have to make people feel like that for simply having sex?

My mum's aunt is very religious. She says sex before marriage is a "crime against one's own body and soul". I wouldn't want my kid to feel like they've been violated, and like they're also the violator, by imposing artificial age limits on perfectly normal human behaviour. The aunt in question also never got married, because she apparently feels "spoiled" because she kissed a boy at the age of 8. She doesn't think any man would want to be with someone who "wasted herself" and didn't wait. I know this is an extreme example, and the aunt here has other... peculiarities as well. But I do find it alarming that someone would want their kid to think that their worth is tied to their virginity. And let's face it, that's the message behind the whole "save youself" bit.

You don't actually lose anything by having sex. I don't know what the current market value for hymens is, but I can't help but think that anyone who suggests that I've given up or lost something, or that I'm dirty or worth less because I've had sex and am not married, is just begging for a punch in the face. Last I checked I wasn't just a vagina on legs.

I also find the underlying notion that kids belong to their parents until relinquished to the care of another person (via marriage) just plain scary. By that logic, my mum who never married would still belong to her mother and dead father. That must suck at her age. Oh, but all people should get married and have children, and if they don't they're not worth as much as the ones who do. Ah, the hetero-christian utopia. Where men are providers, women are mothers, and children are property.

Personally, I have no intention to raise my kids to be perfect, spotless, squeaky-clean partners. I was kinda hoping to raise humans who do human things, including sex. Whether they choose to wait until marriage or not is their call. I'll provide information based on facts, without judging. They're going to have to rely on their own good judgement, 'cause they ain't getting any of that from me.

Thank you for writing this


----------



## MamaBear1976

My child is only eleven months old, so hopefully I won't have to worry about this for a while yet!









However, I do think about it and how to broach the topic with her. I don't necessarily feel comfortable with her being sexually active as a teenager, but if that's what's going to happen anyway (and, let's not kid ourselves, I can't stop her if she sets her mind to it), I'd rather she be completely informed about the consequences. My preference would be that she abstained from sex until she found a kind and gentle boy her age to experiment with that would respect her and love her... But I guess that's what every mom wants, right?

My concern is for the obvious: disease and pregnancy... But also for the subtle: her emotional well-being, her self-esteem and feelings of self-worth. I would ask myself (and her), "Why do you really want to do this? Is it because you feel like he won't pay attention to you if you don't? Is it because he's pressuring you? Is it because all your friends have experienced it and you feel left out? Is it because you're horny? Is it a combination of several of these?" All of these questions carry their own level of discomfort, but I feel like I need to ask them, at the very least, to get her to think about it. Hopefully we would discuss it at length before she actually did anything.

And as for her doing anything at home, as uncomfortable as it would make me, I'd be much more disturbed if she did it somewhere else less safe (like a stranger's party where she could get raped, for example).

Very interesting question. Hard to answer.


----------



## mamakarata

My parents never even implied "sex after marriage" at all, yet my experience around sex was always guilt. The messages are all over the place.

For example all of the focus on Brittany Spears being a virgin. How "hot" it was. All the words for a girls promiscuity, but none for the boys. The messages are loud and clear.

I felt so guilty every single time I had sex. After #1 didn't work out, it was the guilt of "now I have slept with 2 guys" and so on.

You don't even have to teach "sex for adults only", or "sex after marriage" and not pick up on the terminology that is so prevalent in our society. So biased toward a woman's virginity being tied to her worth. Yuck!

It was a break through for me when I slept with a guy simply for the sake of sex for the first time! And of course it's much more meaningful with someone you love. That you learn through experience over time. But in the mean time, we are _wired_ for sex. Not guilt!

And I really haven't seen a post from anyone here _wanting_ to shame or guilt their children out of sex.

Let's say they are dating someone, time has passed, they like him, maybe think they love him, no pressure, they are in the moment, she wants it, he wants it. Now they have to puzzle over whether it's true love or not. And feel all desperate if the relationship dies or fizzles at some point.

I think the pressure of it having the be "the one" weighs heavier on them if they later find out it's not "the one".

Then it's "oh no, I 'gave' myself to someone and it wasn't true love after all!" What if it could have been a great experience they shared? Period!

I feel like the expectation that it is supposed to be this heavy spiritual enlightened moment is too heavy at times. It can be, but not always.

Not trying to change anyone's mind. Just another perspective.


----------



## meowee

Well I have a question... is it even LEGAL to condone sexual activity in your home? Say your underage DD and her underage BF have sex in your house with your knowledge and consent... if the BF's parents have an issue with that, couldn't they file charges against you for contributing to the delinquency of a minor (no different than if you had provided alcohol)? This would especially hold true if you provided condoms/ discussed sex and were aware of the sexual activity. The age of consent varies by state, but in some states it is 18.


----------



## rayo de sol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
Not to mention that I'd find it horrible if people who had consentual sex with a caring partner had to feel dirty or guilty for it. Is it really not enough that people with actually unhealthy sexual experiences have to battle with feelings of shame and guilt, with low self esteem and self respect, for years, sometimes even decades? Do we have to make people feel like that for simply having sex?









Awesome post!


----------



## rayo de sol

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I think it is sad that people are saving sex for marriage....









:


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I don't totally disagree with you here, but I want to tell you something shocking a coworker told me about 10 years ago.

Her 11 year old niece was no longer a virgin. Why? She felt like she had to have sex because she was _the only one of her friends who hadn't done it yet!_ She didn't want to, but she felt like such an outsider she did it anyway.

So, maybe we're going to have to have these conversations earlier than we would like.









Isn't it strange? I was 13 when mine was taken. Yes, I do mean taken-not given. It says something very sad for our society when an 11yo has pressure on them to have sex. Or anyone, for that matter. It should be a choice, not a necessity.

And though I am in the "try it before you buy it" approach to sex & marriage, I would never say it is sad that someone would wait. It's *their* choice, their genitalia, their conscience. I think that it's sad some peopple here are judging people by the fact that they did wait or idealize it.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Isn't it strange? I was 13 when mine was taken. Yes, I do mean taken-not given. It says something very sad for our society when an 11yo has pressure on them to have sex. Or anyone, for that matter. It should be a choice, not a necessity.

And though I am in the "try it before you buy it" approach to sex & marriage, I would never say it is sad that someone would wait. It's *their* choice, their genitalia, their conscience. I think that it's sad some peopple here are judging people by the fact that they did wait or idealize it.

I think it's creepy. My dd is so emotionally immature in so many ways, yet she has teenaged hormones bouncing around and is already so boy crazy it frightens me. She is 9! And for 3 years all I have heard about from her is which boy is cute, and when will she have a boyfriend. uke

I also find it creepy that she finds men my age attractive. ugh. If she were 25, it would be much less creepy.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I think that it's sad some peopple here are judging people by the fact that they did wait or idealize it.

I haven't witnessed so much judgement toward people who choose to wait or who idealize it for themselves.

I would like to address what happens to those who are told they should wait when they might feel otherwise.

The *potential* guilt that arises from that internal conflict.

And how parents who don't want to impart guilt around sex, but who do want to impart the idea of saving them selves. I am interested in how parents have been able to do this successfully.

Anyone?


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I haven't witnessed so much judgement toward people who choose to wait or who idealize it for themselves.

I would like to address what happens to those who are told they should wait when they might feel otherwise.

The *potential* guilt that arises from that internal conflict.

And how parents who don't want to impart guilt around sex, but who do want to impart the idea of saving them selves. I am interested in how parents have been able to do this successfully.

Anyone?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I think it is ridiculous that you are judging how she feels. I wish I had been with more people too.

I think it is sad that people are saving sex for marriage if youw ant to get into that.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *rayo de sol* 







:









Noone was saying that?


----------



## the_lissa

My comment was in response to a poster saying that it is sad that someone wishes she had more experience.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
Noone was saying that?

I am asking for people's experiences. I have shared my experence that is working for me.


----------



## cottonwood

I want to protect my children from unnecessary harm if they don't have the ability yet to protect themselves, _and_ I know that their bodies and their sexuality belong to _them_. That means that I would accept it under certain conditions, i.e. that I believe that my child is in a safe situation and has a *very* good understanding of the potential ramifications of becoming sexually active, which the vast majority of young people ("sex ed" notwithstanding) don't have the slightest clue about. They're kept in the dark and made to feel shameful in the attempt to counter the affects of the crap they're barraged with by the media and peers. It backfires. Our society is so screwed up when it comes to dealing with teens -- we infantilize them in some ways and expect them to be adults in others. The reality of what they are ready for psychologically and physically is something very different, and it's different for every person. A free, healthy person doesn't do stupid things and doesn't do self-destructive things. I have every faith in my children that they will make good choices for themselves because they haven't had to build up neurotic defenses that would obscure their intuitive understanding of what's good for them.

That said, they can't know everything, and there are negative possibilities that they might not ever truly comprehend until having had gone through it. The upshot of that is that we would, like UUMom, also discourage sex in the teen years.

Quote:

My dd is so emotionally immature in so many ways, yet she has teenaged hormones bouncing around and is already so boy crazy it frightens me. She is 9! And for 3 years all I have heard about from her is which boy is cute, and when will she have a boyfriend.
I was boy crazy too, I had some seriously painful crushes. (I didn't let on to my mother though, that would have been too embarrassing!) But for me it had *nothing* to do with sexual desire. I really wasn't ready to have sex until I was in my twenties!


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I am asking for people's experiences. I have shared my experence that is working for me.

You responded to my post in response to another poster. That's confusing, huh?








No one person is right about waiting vs. before marriage.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds* 
A free, healthy person doesn't do stupid things and doesn't do self-destructive things. I have every faith in my children that they will make good choices for themselves because they haven't had to build up neurotic defenses that would obscure their intuitive understanding of what's good for them.

You had me until you said that. I don't know _anybody,_ no matter how healthy, free, or intelligent, who hasn't done a thing or two in their lifetime that couldn't be categorized as stupid or _not-too-well-thought-out_ when it comes to romantic choices. Maybe they don't _all_ involve sex, but I think that's a pretty heavy burden to place on your children to never make any mistakes in that department.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourlittlebirds* 
I was boy crazy too, I had some seriously painful crushes. (I didn't let on to my mother though, that would have been too embarrassing!) But for me it had *nothing* to do with sexual desire. I really wasn't ready to have sex until I was in my twenties!

Well, I can always hope.


----------



## 2tadpoles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I just think our society is over-sexed in a bad way that teens are pressured into being sexual beings before they are ready and used by boys....

So now my kids are predators because they have Y chromosomes? That's rather insulting.


----------



## katheek77

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
I haven't witnessed so much judgement toward people who choose to wait or who idealize it for themselves.

I would like to address what happens to those who are told they should wait when they might feel otherwise.

The *potential* guilt that arises from that internal conflict.

And how parents who don't want to impart guilt around sex, but who do want to impart the idea of saving them selves. I am interested in how parents have been able to do this successfully.

Anyone?

*shrug*

I didn't have sex until I was 23. I didn't save myself until marriage, but I'm guessing 23 is well past the average. There was no guilt involved.

When I was growing up, my mother had very few "rules" or whatever you eant to call them. When she asked me NOT to do something, she usually had very good reasons, and I respected her judgment. One of those was sex while I was still in high school. She laid it out for me...no contraception is foolproof, pregnancy is always a possibility, it's very difficult to raise a child and go to school, I probably would not be with a high school boyfriend even a year or two down the line (yes, it happens, but not that often), yada yada yada. TBH, never was religion discussed (my parents aren't religious at all, really). She felt very strongly about this, and I respected her thoughts and arguments. Her arguments ultimately played into my decision to not have sex until my *college* diploma was within grasp (spring semester, senior year...yeah, I made damn sure I was getting my diploma w/o being sidetracked by a pregnancy).

We had a very open dialogue, and she allowed me to go to overnight co-ed parties with friends (heck, she hosted a couple, but ground rules were laid down). She let boyfriends stay overnight, in my bedroom, and knew we weren't having sex. Out of respect for my mother, I would never have DREAMED of having sex in her house. It was a matter of respect, not guilt.


----------



## GalateaDunkel

I reject the whole idea, which keeps getting repeated in different forms by different posters, that by endorsing a certain standard of behavior I am setting up my child for damage if she chooses not to follow that standard. That makes no sense at all. I am sorry for people who had negative experiences with shaming, misogynistic concepts of "virginity," etc., but that's not what people on this thread are talking about. My love and respect for my child is unconditional and doesn't depend on her following certain standards, which I have chosen for myself and which I understand not everybody shares. We live in a diverse, open society and my child, as she grows, might find another set of standards more compelling. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to share what I believe with her, and the reasons for it. Which includes the expectation that she will follow those standards as long as she is a dependent minor under my roof.

On the other hand, given the very personal nature of the matter and the strength of the passions involved, I will make sure she knows how to protect herself physically if she rejects my attempt to protect her spiritually and emotionally. Actually, I believe that the message to delay sex and the message to use protection can be presented in a mutually reinforcing way: with an understanding that sex is serious stuff, to be approached with caution, and that the best protection is to wait, if possible, until one is in a better position to assume the attendant risks. That is, until one is a mature and independent adult.

Frankly, I think this whole thread is a bit of a set-up. A poll is supposed to get a variety of opinions, but opinions that differ have been systematically shot down rather than, IMO, authentically engaged. I feel like rather than being heard, we have just been set up as an opportunity for the OP and others to pontificate further about how right they are.


----------



## Shenjall

Thank You GalateaDunkel!!!!!!!


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I reject the whole idea, which keeps getting repeated in different forms by different posters, that by endorsing a certain standard of behavior I am setting up my child for damage if she chooses not to follow that standard. That makes no sense at all. I am sorry for people who had negative experiences with shaming, misogynistic concepts of "virginity," etc., but that's not what people on this thread are talking about. My love and respect for my child is unconditional and doesn't depend on her following certain standards, which I have chosen for myself and which I understand not everybody shares. We live in a diverse, open society and my child, as she grows, might find another set of standards more compelling. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to share what I believe with her, and the reasons for it. Which includes the expectation that she will follow those standards as long as she is a dependent minor under my roof.

On the other hand, given the very personal nature of the matter and the strength of the passions involved, I will make sure she knows how to protect herself physically if she rejects my attempt to protect her spiritually and emotionally. Actually, I believe that the message to delay sex and the message to use protection can be presented in a mutually reinforcing way: with an understanding that sex is serious stuff, to be approached with caution, and that the best protection is to wait, if possible, until one is in a better position to assume the attendant risks. That is, until one is a mature and independent adult.

Frankly, I think this whole thread is a bit of a set-up. A poll is supposed to get a variety of opinions, but opinions that differ have been systematically shot down rather than, IMO, authentically engaged. I feel like rather than being heard, we have just been set up as an opportunity for the OP and others to pontificate further about how right they are.

Very nicely put.


----------



## kittywitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
So now my kids are predators because they have Y chromosomes? That's rather insulting.

What? I think that you are taking my comment out of it's context. I am talking about the way that MANY girls of taken advantage of by boys and men. There's no denying that one. Boys are taken advantage, too. But we were talking about girls, I thought (in relation to the OP's dd). I have a son.


----------



## bigeyes

I'm confused. From the poll, it looks like we're pretty evenly split up. Some of us may be a little more vocal than others, and I think a couple of people feel like their opinions were discounted...but I think most viewpoints are represented here.

Several people made some interesting points. (and not just the ones I agreed with)

I think no matter how you word a poll, there are going to be some bizzarro answers like mine that really don't 'fit' no matter what you do.

I don't think I'm puritanical in the least, but _I don't want my children having sex in my house._

I think it is silly to value virginity in girls and not in boys. In our litigious society, I think parents of boys are just as concerned about unplanned pregnancies for financial reasons as for moral ones. We don't want our children having sex because we don't want to be financially responsible, which legally _we could be._

Some of my opinions match those of others here, some don't. But I don't feel like the poll is a _set up,_ really. Everyone has had an opportunity to speak their mind, haven't they?


----------



## MillingNome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I reject the whole idea, which keeps getting repeated in different forms by different posters, that by endorsing a certain standard of behavior I am setting up my child for damage if she chooses not to follow that standard. That makes no sense at all. I am sorry for people who had negative experiences with shaming, misogynistic concepts of "virginity," etc., but that's not what people on this thread are talking about. My love and respect for my child is unconditional and doesn't depend on her following certain standards, which I have chosen for myself and which I understand not everybody shares. We live in a diverse, open society and my child, as she grows, might find another set of standards more compelling. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to share what I believe with her, and the reasons for it. Which includes the expectation that she will follow those standards as long as she is a dependent minor under my roof.
.









:

And to also point out from a pp, there is the consideration of brain development. The brain is not fully done until later in the teens. There is a reason why the age of 18 was picked to be legally an adult. There might be a reason why kids under that age are not legally able to sign contracts, get credit cards, open bank accounts and any number of other things. It is the reason why courts in general do not charge those under 18 as an adult. I'm not saying all teens are incapable of foreseeing consequences. Most are able to come to many sound conclusions. It's just that waiting and getting a little more life experience coupled with the last minute tuning going on in the brain, sounds like some what of a good idea... just of course my opinion.

The teen years are such a time of change that maybe getting comfortable in your own skin before someone else does too would be a good idea, imo of course.

And in my house, there are indeed values I want my dc to have about sex. That along with the above, push me to discuss waiting for sex until at least done with hs as ideal, imo.

As previously said- if something else worked for you, great. If something else works for your dc, wonderful.


----------



## 2tadpoles

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
But we were talking about girls, I thought (in relation to the OP's dd).

I thought we were talking about teens, like the thread title says.


----------



## anubis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
My love and respect for my child is unconditional and doesn't depend on her following certain standards, which I have chosen for myself and which I understand not everybody shares. We live in a diverse, open society and my child, as she grows, might find another set of standards more compelling. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to share what I believe with her, and the reasons for it. Which includes the expectation that she will follow those standards as long as she is a dependent minor under my roof.

I just think that sharing your beliefs or opinions is quite a ways from "my house, my rules". The whole "as long as you live under my roof, you live under my rules" thing always seemed rather unfair to me. I was never a huge fan of dictatorship. Also, it was the biggest reason I was living under a roof of my very own at the age of 15. My mother may have been fairly lax about the sex issue, but that attitude leaked over to other parts of our lives, and eventually I chose to live on my own. I suppose people have the right to make demands such as that, but they shouldn't be too surprised if the kids choose to leave the house. No matter how much parents don't like it, kids will sometimes make different decisions.

Personally, I'd let quite a few differing opinions fly rather than have my kids move out at that age. I don't need to be in control of their lives, I'd rather support them through a less than perfect (in my eyes anyway) decision than basically drive them out by denying them the right to live the way they see fit. If there's nothing criminal or outright dangerous going on, I don't see myself getting into a power struggle. They rarely benefit anyone.


----------



## Susie1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
Personally, I'd let quite a few differing opinions fly rather than have my kids move out at that age. I don't need to be in control of their lives, I'd rather support them through a less than perfect (in my eyes anyway) decision than basically drive them out by denying them the right to live the way they see fit. If there's nothing criminal or outright dangerous going on, I don't see myself getting into a power struggle. They rarely benefit anyone.


This makes a lot of sense to me. I try to live like this. There are occasionally times when I get irked about stuff ( - the hospitality issues thread); but that is sometimes part of the process in finding out how all can live together. Some families probably do this better than others. I do not mean to side-track the thread from sex...so maybe I will copy this over to a new thread.

Also wanted to respond to the different opinions. I think when you have different views on important issues, the opposing viewpoints have pointed disagreements. They are not personal insults -- just pointed disagreements, otherwise they wouldn't be opposing opinions.

Better not to take things personally.


----------



## Mama Dragon

At least 16, in a serious relationship, and where ever they are safe and protected to do so. That said, inwardly, I'm screaming "wait til you're in your 20's!!!!"


----------



## onelilguysmommy

i have only boys, a toddler and a nb..but ive been having sex with their dad since i was 14, he was 17. were 20 and 23 now.
no, not married.. my mom tried to keep us apart when i was 15..some of 14 and all of 15. guess what, i spent the night at my friends and she et him stay too, or told my mom i ws sick when i knew shed be gone a long time and call him to come over...
i think she noticed we werent giving up, and my 16th bday she asked him if he would like to help take care of my mostly disabled granddad sometimes on the weekends..he said yes, he started staying a lot of weekend. it then spread to ya know..thurs-sun then thurs-mon, then just most of the time, and then his dad moved, so he moved in all the way when i was 16 and umm 3.5 months?
yeah, i got pregnant with him living here, fter a year, but i had been pregnant before (mc)when were being forced to sneak around majorly if we wanted to see each other any time other than school (where we had to RUN to see each other until he got his lunch switched because we never had classes near each other.) so its not i ONLY got pregnant, or ONLY had sex because he moved in...wed been having sex almost 2 years by then.

he had his own room and werent allowed to spend the night in each others rooms...but we started sleeping in the living room. one on the couch, the other on the floor, and we switched.
then when i got pregnant, we started both sleeping on the couch together, and then we got into a huge fight with my brothers dad and holed ourselves up in what had been his room, and slept in the same bed. my mom will still complain about that, we werent supposed to be sleeping together. im like "um, i was already pregnant, and you knew it, im not getting pregnant AGAIN so whats the difference when that was the only reason we werent allowed to sleep together?"

so im not going to try and be all like "you have to wait until marriage or else" but i do hope theyre in at least a loving relationship...other than that i dont know anything else of what i will/wont be like
i guess ill help with condoms or whatever, but if i ever did have a girl, im WAY against anything hormonal, for lots of reasons, so im not sure there...i guess more with the condoms and maybe educating about spermicide or sponges or something. we never used anything. well..weve used condoms umm..less than 8% of the time in 6 years. i did do FAM for a long time after mcing until getting pregnant with our 2yo though...that isnt going to help a boy LOL

and im not sure about the in the house thing...it would depend on how many rooms, etc... i dont want to walk in or hear it, LOL but other than that, as long as they care for the person im not going to care as much,as say i would if they just brought home random girls, kwim?

and uhh..MOST of america, the legal age of consent is 16.


----------



## BookGoddess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I reject the whole idea, which keeps getting repeated in different forms by different posters, that by endorsing a certain standard of behavior I am setting up my child for damage if she chooses not to follow that standard. That makes no sense at all. I am sorry for people who had negative experiences with shaming, misogynistic concepts of "virginity," etc., but that's not what people on this thread are talking about. My love and respect for my child is unconditional and doesn't depend on her following certain standards, which I have chosen for myself and which I understand not everybody shares. We live in a diverse, open society and my child, as she grows, might find another set of standards more compelling. That doesn't mean I don't have the right to share what I believe with her, and the reasons for it. Which includes the expectation that she will follow those standards as long as she is a dependent minor under my roof.

On the other hand, given the very personal nature of the matter and the strength of the passions involved, I will make sure she knows how to protect herself physically if she rejects my attempt to protect her spiritually and emotionally. Actually, I believe that the message to delay sex and the message to use protection can be presented in a mutually reinforcing way: with an understanding that sex is serious stuff, to be approached with caution, and that the best protection is to wait, if possible, until one is in a better position to assume the attendant risks. That is, until one is a mature and independent adult.

Frankly, I think this whole thread is a bit of a set-up. A poll is supposed to get a variety of opinions, but opinions that differ have been systematically shot down rather than, IMO, authentically engaged. I feel like rather than being heard, we have just been set up as an opportunity for the OP and others to pontificate further about how right they are.

Excellent post! You've articulated much of what I was thinking about this issue.

I believe delaying sex deserves as much consideration and appreciation as the decision to not wait does.

There is no right or wrong on this issue. We have different viewpoints. If the OP and others are comfortable with their teenager having sex in their house then that's fine by me. It's not my child. It's not my house. I'm not going to convince you otherwise because it's not my place to do so. I trust you're making the right choices for your family in accordance with your values. And I don't understand the need to change the minds of those of us who have a different viewpoint. I see mamas posting a contrary viewpoint and getting shot down. Why is it important to you that your way of raising your child be the way other people who should raise theirs? We can all agree to disagree, can't we?


----------



## Shann

I have to say that I fall in the camp of seeing nothing wrong with allowing teens to have a healthy sexual relationship at home rather than out somewhere that things can go wrong. I would MUCH rather that happen than all the bad things that could happen otherwise. I think mamakarata made the VERY right decision and am happy that she is happy for the kids!

GOOD FOR YOU, mamakarata!!


----------



## Bestbirths

Wow....leave the thread for a couple days and come back and it's exploded!

I think this has been an awesome thread and I've enjoyed reading it and being in it.

I have these thoughts on rape and this is what I teach my children. Rape is not about sex, it is about power and violence. Rape is taking power over someone's body, trying to take something that you can't take, true love, has to be given from the heart and soul, willingly. It is a spiritual bond where the two souls meet, it must be willingly on both sides. When a person is raped, they are still pure in God's eyes. Virginity is something that you willingly give over, something sacred that you can choose to save for the person you are going to spend your life with. The rape is about violence, and violence is an ugly abuse of power. It is not on the same spiritual level as love and sex in relationships.
It doesn't count. A person who has been raped can consider themselves a virgin when the find their soulmate and give themselves to them.


----------



## anubis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Wow....leave the thread for a couple days and come back and it's exploded!

I think this has been an awesome thread and I've enjoyed reading it and being in it.

I have these thoughts on rape and this is what I teach my children. Rape is not about sex, it is about power and violence. Rape is taking power over someone's body, trying to take something that you can't take, true love, has to be given from the heart and soul, willingly. It is a spiritual bond where the two souls meet, it must be willingly on both sides. When a person is raped, they are still pure in God's eyes. Virginity is something that you willingly give over, something sacred that you can choose to save for the person you are going to spend your life with. The rape is about violence, and violence is an ugly abuse of power. It is not on the same spiritual level as love and sex in relationships.
It doesn't count. A person who has been raped can consider themselves a virgin when the find their soulmate and give themselves to them.

That's all fine and well, but what about perfectly consentual sex with someone you don't necessarily consider your soulmate or whatever (personally I don't subscribe to the soulmate belief, but I know many people do)? I don't see the point of telling people they're not pure just because they had sex with someone. I don't really consider myself dirty even though I've had sex without being married, and even with people I wasn't in any kind of emotional relationship with (and frankly I find the notion insulting). The only thing that I can see happening when value is placed on virginity is that people who choose to have sex will feel like they're not worth as much anymore. They're impure, dirty, damaged goods, used, a popped cherry.

I feel very strongly that people shouldn't have to feel guilty or dirty for the decisions they make, as long as they're not hurting anyone. And I find it very disempowering and frankly demeaning to tell people that the only way to remain pure is to stay a virgin until they find their One True Love. That idea might have worked better back when people generally got married at a much younger age. Where I live, the average age at first marriage for men is 30.6 and for women 28.4. That's slightly different from the ages people usually were when they got married when the "no sex before marriage" rule was coined. In fact, in a great lot of the marriages back a while, at least one of the pair would be under the age of consent as it is in many countries nowadays.

Another pp asked why we in the other camp wrt sex want the right to raise our kids they way we want to but wouldn't like others to have the same right. For myself, I can say that I really do not have anything against stating your opinion to your kids. As in, "I think sex is best left for marriage, and here are my reasons". What I do have an issue with is judging those who choose to have sex as "impure". I have nothing against people waiting until marriage, and would never say that kids should be encouraged to do it either. And I would also like it if people didn't call me or my kids (should they choose to have sex) impure or teach their kids such judgement.

It's no different from a father of a friend of mine, who is an atheist. His kids were exposed to a lot of scoffing about religious people, and I believe that's equally wrong. He judged people as worth less and a bit stupid if they believed in a god. If he'd said "I don't believe in any gods, and this is why" it would have been fine in my book. I can agree to disagree with people when it's just opinions about things. It's the devaluing of people based on their beliefs or actions that gets to me.

To put it simply, I'm not going to teach my kids to judge people who do wait, and I'd like my kids to have the same right not to be judged, whatever their decision is.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
That's all fine and well, but what about perfectly consentual sex with someone you don't necessarily consider your soulmate or whatever (personally I don't subscribe to the soulmate belief, but I know many people do)?

So promote casual sex to teens?







We are talking about TEENS in this thread. A teen with multiple partners before they are actually mature enough is, IMO, more at a risk to develop an unhealthy attitude toward sex than one who waits. Not even necessarily until marriage but at least until after they are ruled by hormones. This goes along with my wanting to teach my child not to be ruled by their urges.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 

I feel very strongly that people shouldn't have to feel guilty or dirty for the decisions they make, as long as they're not hurting anyone. .

There are lots of things that don't "hurt" anyone that I consider to be wrong or not in my child's best interest.


----------



## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BookGoddess* 
I believe delaying sex deserves as much consideration and appreciation as the decision to not wait does.

There is no right or wrong on this issue. We have different viewpoints. If the OP and others are comfortable with their teenager having sex in their house then that's fine by me. It's not my child. It's not my house. I'm not going to convince you otherwise because it's not my place to do so. I trust you're making the right choices for your family in accordance with your values. And I don't understand the need to change the minds of those of us who have a different viewpoint. I see mamas posting a contrary viewpoint and getting shot down. Why is it important to you that your way of raising your child be the way other people who should raise theirs? We can all agree to disagree, can't we?

I agree, I agree I agree. We don't have to agree!
All perspectives will help us ALL in the end I think. I still have a 5 yo son, and I guarantee you, ALL perspectives have been very helpful to me. I only *think* I've got it all figured out, but surely DS will be a whole new ball of wax. Because he has been so far!

But I'm still here! Still offering my perspective. Still hearing others.


----------



## ^guest^

I voted that I would allow it, and in the house is fine.

I think it's some mighty big assumption to think that parents like myself will just hand a kid some condoms at some pre-determined date and say "there ya go! have fun!"

I will allow it when she's ready. She's not that age yet, but I hope that we will maintain an open and honest enough relationship that she can talk about the enormity of becoming sexually active, the physical and emotional ramifications of sex, and what it really means to be "ready". If, after all of that, she honestly feels ready, then yes, she will likely do it with or without my blessing, so why shame her, scream at her, or punish her for what she intended to do? I'm not just going to throw her on birth control or put condoms out for her for everyone to see, long before she has the inkling to become sexually active or even a partner for which to do it with. There is a big difference between just "being cool with it" and not caring what your kids do sexually, and knowing your kid, teaching them, being able to listen and give advice honestly without shaming, giving them the tools to approach adult life with confidence, and being supportive of a choice they have thought out and acted on responsibly, whether is abstinence or becoming sexually active.


----------



## mamawanabe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I think it's sad that you feel like you missed out on something. I think it also speaks to this current culture of endorsing casual sex for just the reasons you stated.


Ha ha, no. I am not plugged into contemporary culture at all (don't even own a TV, watch a movie a year, read books that were pretty much all written prior to 1950 and usually prior to1900).

My regret of not having sex with boy/guyfriends in college is about me now not being as free or comfortable with sex as I'd like. I missed out on experiences and connections that could have enriched my life in important ways.


----------



## anubis

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
So promote casual sex to teens?







We are talking about TEENS in this thread. A teen with multiple partners before they are actually mature enough is, IMO, more at a risk to develop an unhealthy attitude toward sex than one who waits. Not even necessarily until marriage but at least until after they are ruled by hormones. This goes along with my wanting to teach my child not to be ruled by their urges.

There's quite a lot of wiggle room between saying that having sex makes you impure and promoting casual sex to teenagers. I am definitely not in favour of pushing a kid to have sex before they're ready, but I'm really not into the whole purity thing either. That teaches kids that they're only worth a partner if they're not used. And if that's not objectifying, I don't know what is.

Quote:

There are lots of things that don't "hurt" anyone that I consider to be wrong or not in my child's best interest.
And that's fine. Obviously it's good to share your opinion with your kid, but telling them that their worth (or purity, which really amounts to the same thing here) is linked to whether they do things your way or not is in a completely different league.

Let me reiterate that all people are of course entitled to their opinions about things. But I don't think anyone is entitled to placing judgement of value on another human being based on race, religion, sexual status, or the choices they make. Really, it's no different than telling your kid that people who follow a different religion are dirty and disgusting. The religion might not be good for you, and you might think it's not in your child's best interest. You might even be right. But raising yourself on a platform of purity because of your beliefs is just taking it a bit far. Again, there's a huge difference between "this is what I believe and here are my reasons" and "I believe this and if you don't follow it, you're impure".


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## Bestbirths

anubis. I'm sorry if the word pure offends you but this is one area where you will find that other's beliefs deserve to be respected like any other lifestyle choice would be and you will probably never change someone's beliefs on this issue. These beliefs are deeply rooted in spirtuality.

The whole story of the bride and groom in the Bible is a mystery and a picture of Jesus Christ and the Church, The bride is presented pure, as a virgin in a white gown (representing purity) to her husband, and her husband is willing to die for her. The church is to present themselves holy unto Jesus Christ (following him) and he is called in the Bible the bridegroom, and he dies for his bride so that she can live, then raises from the dead and comes back for his bride. It is a special spiritual picture to those that believe it and you scoffing or being offended at the concept of purity is never going to change anyones beliefs who believes this way. It in no way is meant to condemn anyone for being unpure. I live my life without judgement of others and leave the judging to God.

I believe this concept of purity and don't think of sex is dirty or ever think of people as impure myself. You took it that way, i think, and all I was saying is that someone who has the belief system of purity twards God, does not have to count rape as losing that. This is comforting for some people, but if it offends someone, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend with my beliefs but that doesn't mean I'm going to change mine for you on something so precious as this. If you don't have a belief that way it is fine, but some people do.

You were talking about a sexually active teen as one who had been raped and even with the religious aspects out of it, and take the whole word pure out of the conversation like I never said it, I still think rape doesn't count and would continue to tell that to any rape victim.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
There's quite a lot of wiggle room between saying that having sex makes you impure and promoting casual sex to teenagers.

I personally never said anything about pure or impure so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. You said you saw nothing wrong with
having sex "even with people I wasn't in any kind of emotional relationship with". and it sounded a lot like casual sex to me so I was asking how that belief would translate into a conversation to a teen about sex (to keep with the topic of the thread). No judgment just furthering the discussion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
I am definitely not in favour of pushing a kid to have sex before they're ready
, but I'm really not into the whole purity thing either. That teaches kids that they're only worth a partner if they're not used. And if that's not objectifying, I don't know what is.
And that's fine. Obviously it's good to share your opinion with your kid, but telling them that their worth (or purity, which really amounts to the same thing here) is linked to whether they do things your way or not is in a completely different league.

You are really fixated on this "pure" thing and seem to be saying that to encourage a teen to wait automoatically means that you will simultaneously be telling them that if they don't they are dirty and worthless. I don't see that as two things that HAVE to happen together. In fact I would make a conscious effort to ensure my child knows that that is NOT true. So in that regard we are not disagreeing, because I think that tying up self worth with ANY outward act is wrong because we are bound to fall short sometimes, if not often!


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe* 
Ha ha, no. I am not plugged into contemporary culture at all (don't even own a TV, watch a movie a year, read books that were pretty much all written prior to 1950 and usually prior to1900).

My regret of not having sex with boy/guyfriends in college is about me now not being as free or comfortable with sex as I'd like. I missed out on experiences and connections that could have enriched my life in important ways.

Thanks for clarifying.







That makes sense to me.


----------



## Bestbirths

I agree that we would not make someone feel dirty or impure about having sex, yuk. I know some people do, but we wouldn't do that. We are not flipping a coin on the purity issue, we talk about purity, but we do not talk about the flip side as being impure. We talk about choosing to not follow Gods plan like it is a different lifestyle choice, or something like that, and we would respect their choices for their own life and body....except....it is really hard to balance that if you have a teen who has been raped, they are known to act out more sexually as a result and to hand them condoms and give them freedom to have sex in the house, might not be in their best interest. Did you ever think of it that way from the abuse standpoint?


----------



## AbundantLife

I don't post here much, but I do read and I thought I'd chime in here. I have two teens, both boys, ages 13 and 17. When my oldest was 15, he and his current g/f started dating. I didn't think they were having sex because my son was always open and honest with me about most everything. I trusted him implicitly and we have never condoned sex for teens. We have discussed the psychological, emotional and physical realities of sex and the possible outcomes. Well, I found out from a text message that my son and his g/f were having sex. This was over a year ago when my son was either just turning 16 or had not yet. (can't remember) I was very unhappy that my son was not honest with me, but I was also unhappy and disappointed that I thought they were not using protection. I told my son about an abortion I had had, which is something I shared with him so that he would understand the reality of an unwanted pregnancy.

Fast forward to now, my son is almost 18 and his g/f is now 20 years old. She is on birth control. I'm not sure how often they do have sex, or even if they do. I honestly don't have as big of a problem with it now as I did then because they are in a committed relationship and are taking precautions. They both have high goals in life and do not want to become parents.

I think that it depends upon the child, the child's relationship status, and everything else that comes along with it.

I'm not in favor of buying condoms for kids. I don't know if I would feel differently if I had daughters, but I know that my son did buy his own condoms and his g/f took steps to prevent pregnancy by going on birth control.


----------



## MamaBear1976

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
I agree that we would not make someone feel dirty or impure about having sex, yuk. I know some people do, but we wouldn't do that. We are not flipping a coin on the purity issue, we talk about purity, but we do not talk about the flip side as being impure. We talk about choosing to not follow Gods plan like it is a different lifestyle choice, or something like that, and we would respect their choices for their own life and body....except....it is really hard to balance that if you have a teen who has been raped, they are known to act out more sexually as a result and to hand them condoms and give them freedom to have sex in the house, might not be in their best interest. Did you ever think of it that way from the abuse standpoint?

I don't think handing out condoms will CAUSE a rape victim to have sex, no.

I think that there might be a correlation between victims of abuse and subsequent unhealthy sexual relationships, but I think that happens whether you give out condoms or not. In fact, I'd argue that it's smarter to give out condoms to victims because it would make it more likely that if they DO act out in that way, at least they're more likely to protect themselves.


----------



## dallaschildren

This thread has been returned.







Please keep the MDC UA in mind when posting. Thank you.

Peace,
DC


----------



## Bestbirths

YAY!!!! Let the sex talk continue....









kind of OT but a boy we don't know and have never seen before came to our door asking for our 14 yr old daughter. I gave him our phone # and said he could visit our daughter after we met his parents. I said that we always met our daughter's friends parents first, and though it gets a little awkward as she gets older, we still feel it necessary at this time. He was very polite and said he understood and will have his parents contact us. He said his parents were the same way. So...I guess we are not so "out there" with our beliefs. Our daughter has abused the internet though, talking to strangers and what not....and she is learning not to do that....but with her history and someone coming to the door we don't know...I'm not just going to let them come in.


----------



## Bestbirths

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaBear1976* 
In fact, I'd argue that it's smarter to give out condoms to victims because it would make it more likely that if they DO act out in that way, at least they're more likely to protect themselves.

Um...I wonder if you are still talking about what age of teens here? Not 18, but what, 13, 14, hand out condoms to young teens? Is this regardless of their responsibility level or maturity or readiness for sex? I am more wanting to try to get to the root of why they would want to act out in a sexual way before they are ready and try to fix those reasons. To me its kind of giving in or accepting defeat to let a child who is clearly not ready and you know is going to be emotionally harmed to have total reign of the house for sexual exploration and provide lots of condoms.....







:


----------



## Blooming

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamakarata* 
Until you walk in someones shoes....

That keeps coming to my mind. If you asked me before faced with our exact situation, I probably would have selected "other" on my poll. I realize how much our situation depended upon our circumstances and who my DD is.

It is true that there are so many problems with our society and it's thinking toward sex, that all one can _do_ is talk talk talk.

It's impossible to convey the extent or breadth of our talks leading and extending through our present situation.

Some of those things we talked about were the obvious issues of peer pressure, STD's, and pregnancy, along with the importance of being with someone whom you were comfortable enough and open enough to talk talk talk about those same issues. For us it's all about self empowerment.

As time went on we addressed many of the messages we get on a daily basis without even realizing it. Many of them concerning the weight placed on a girls virginity rather than the boys.

Like, why are their so many words for a womans promiscuity and not for mens? The male words are associated to a compliment of sorts. "Don Juan", "Ladies Man" The only one that has any negative connotation is "male slut" but only because it uses a female word "slut" to lend to it's negativity.

For women you have "whore, slut, trash, spent, used, gash" the list goes on and on.

We talked about how this trend in a male dominated society possibly comes from the male ego feeling threatened by a womans sexuality.

So then you have the feminist movement to counter that- women reclaiming their power. Reclaiming their sexuality. Not allowing their virginity to somehow lend toward their value toward commitment. Not allowing themselves to be treated like a commodity. (To explain what my DD means when she made her own statement on this thread) -

but then left unchecked, how this movement could potentially create a NEW pressure for girls to prove themselves yet again by being callous and detached from sex in general. (as addressed in an earlier post)

And we talked about the pressure for young men. Why are they assumed to be callous and not care? But what if they DO care? Are they too sensitive? Mama's boys?

And then all of the opinions and baggage flying around about what is right or wrong. Religion and the institution of marriage. Misunderstandings, misogyny, the white dress, the Madonna/Whore complex.

When we handed my DD her first book about bodies, changes and sex, she was 9 yo and told us, literally, that she was so relieved because so many kids were talking about what they knew and she felt completely out of the loop and didn't know what to believe.

We were shocked. It didn't matter that she was in a private school filled with doting parents! The kids were talking. We weren't even sure if the timing was right, but just knew that kids can start changing around that time so just went for it. That began the many years of talks.

Like it or not, this is the society we live in. And we are a house without T.V! Which is of FILLED with so much sex and titillating images to grab your attention and confuse a growing mind.

We had to find a balance - to convey our concerns, and remain realistic to her surroundings and the opinions she began to form.

We taught independent thinking, and we got an independently thinking teenager. Who met and adores another independently thinking young man. Who put NO pressure on her whatsoever as it turns out. And who is missing his GF intensely while she is away for 5 months on her foreign exchange.

She can drive a car, she is 17 months from being able to vote, (but oh so wishes she could vote in 2008!) she can handle her menstruation, calculus, and attend school in a foreign country. She isn't a mindless teenager. She is young, but she is powerful and intelligent, and totally opinionated. I wouldn't want it any other way.

We weren't sure when or how it was going to play out with my DD first having sex, but how it worked out, is that she is having her first experience in an environment where she feels close to her BF, and close to us, and we can all (including her BF) talk openly about it. They are so supported and conscious and in the moment. It's just how it worked out for us.

I can't say with my DS how it will play out. We will take it as it comes. Address the same issues, and stay with him. His maturity and attitude will surely develop at it's own pace.

And in light of that, I will say that as no two people are alike, no two teens are alike.

I posted earlier that my DD is totally happy and got a comment back that "all teens are happy with their boyfriends until they lose them".

As if somehow her happiness isn't valid because she is only a teen? As if her happiness only comes from being with her BF?

To make a blanket statement of what "all" teens feel or think is IMO a huge problem toward staying connected to them. Not to mention condescending.

I don't relish the day that her heart gets broken. No one does. This is one of many decisions she came to with tons of love, guidance, communication, openness, support, and maturity. And it certainly isn't about "proving how open I am" as one poster commented- which was cold-hearted in it's implication toward my original post.

It's about encouraging and supporting who my DD is. Despite many assumptions people make about "raising" teens, she is an amazing and wonderful teen who has and continues to be a total joy to us. I can only hope the same for all parents of teens.


You are an incredible mother with one lucky daughter. I applaud you for educating you're daughter in a way I only wish my mother had educated me. It sounds to me as if you are completely in tune with her.


----------



## guestmama9911

This is an interesting article on the topic, right here on mothering.com

http://www.mothering.com/community_t...sex-ready.html


----------



## choli

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Um...I wonder if you are still talking about what age of teens here? Not 18, but what, 13, 14, hand out condoms to young teens? Is this regardless of their responsibility level or maturity or readiness for sex? I am more wanting to try to get to the root of why they would want to act out in a sexual way before they are ready and try to fix those reasons. To me its kind of giving in or accepting defeat to let a child who is clearly not ready and you know is going to be emotionally harmed to have total reign of the house for sexual exploration and provide lots of condoms.....







:

Some of us don't view sexual activity as "acting out" but as perfectly natural and normal. I wouldn't make the assumption that someone of 13 or 14 is not ready, everyone differs.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Some of us don't view sexual activity as "acting out" but as perfectly natural and normal. I wouldn't make the assumption that someone of 13 or 14 is not ready, everyone differs.

Wow.
While I would agree with you that everyone differs I think more people are of the opinion that MOST 13 or 14 year olds are not ready - period.


----------



## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
Wow.
While I would agree with you that everyone differs I think more people are of the opinion that MOST 13 or 14 year olds are not ready - period.

Oh, I wouldn't agree that most people at MDC think that.

This thread is very mean -spirited, imo.

It should have stayed locked.


----------



## mommy68

I chose that none of these fit my opinion because my children aren't going to have sex until they are 35.

























Seriously though, I have no idea how we will deal with it yet. We talk to our oldest two about "stuff" when it comes up or when we feel it's necessary and have done so since they were pretty young. But I don't know how we'll handle the major sex stuff yet.


----------



## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Some of us don't view sexual activity as "acting out" but as perfectly natural and normal. I wouldn't make the assumption that someone of 13 or 14 is not ready, everyone differs.

I was 14 when I started thinking about having sex and I knew I wasn't ready then and I know now that I wasn't ready then. BUT I didn't start thinking about it until I met my 18 yr old boyfriend and he pushed the idea on me. I was no longer a virgin by 15.







So it does depend on the child and the situation as well. I had no father in the home because he left my mother and was never around and my mother worked 2-3 jobs so I was bored. I was pretty much destined to have sex at an early age.


----------



## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
Oh, I wouldn't agree that most people at MDC think that.


I'm thinking you are right about that. I was more refering to MOST people in general - not just here on MDC.

BTW I hope your feeling that the thread is mean- spirited was not b/c of my post. That wasn't my intention at all


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## choli

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
I was 14 when I started thinking about having sex and I knew I wasn't ready then and I know now that I wasn't ready then. BUT I didn't start thinking about it until I met my 18 yr old boyfriend and he pushed the idea on me. I was no longer a virgin by 15.







So it does depend on the child and the situation as well. I had no father in the home because he left my mother and was never around and my mother worked 2-3 jobs so I was bored. I was pretty much destined to have sex at an early age.

I had no father in the home because he died when I as a child. I lived as a teenager in a tiny village and was bored out of my brain. I didn't have sex till 20. Not because I wasn't ready, because in that place at that time contraception was illegal and very difficult to obtain and I had no intention of becoming pregnant and ending up marrying some idiot because of it and spending the rest of my life in that same dump of a village.

Frankly, I don't feel that I gained anything at all but lack of pregnancy by waiting.


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## Shann

Ryansma..I, for one, would most certainly NOT agree that most 13 or 14 y/o's are not ready for sex, so don't make that assumption! Some are very ready; some aren't. But if they are, then they need all the facts and tools available to them to make that decision. And if the decision happens to be to go ahead, well then...perhaps so be it.


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## ryansma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shann* 
Ryansma..I, for one, would most certainly NOT agree that most 13 or 14 y/o's are not ready for sex, so don't make that assumption! Some are very ready; some aren't. But if they are, then they need all the facts and tools available to them to make that decision. And if the decision happens to be to go ahead, well then...perhaps so be it.


I think UUMom was saying we (those who think 13 and 14 is too young for sex, period) are the MINORITY here on MDC.


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## mamakarata

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I had no father in the home because he died when I as a child. I lived as a teenager in a tiny village and was bored out of my brain. I didn't have sex till 20. Not because I wasn't ready, because in that place at that time contraception was illegal and very difficult to obtain and I had no intention of becoming pregnant and ending up marrying some idiot because of it and spending the rest of my life in that same dump of a village.

Frankly, I don't feel that I gained anything at all but lack of pregnancy by waiting.

Choli,

This is an interesting perspective. And I am always amazed by the idea that contraception would be illegal!


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## ktmama

_especially not what I consider to be the inherently homophobic, "No sex before marriage."_















Thank you so much for saying this.

In addition, I would venture to guess that this type of no sex until marriage thinking leads lots of women to marry by default and not feel that staying single is a worthy choice.


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## mama in the forest

My children have been watching sexual activities since they were very young.
























On the farm.







The animals have so graciously provided me with many opportunities to talk about sex and mating. My kids have been present numerous times when various animals have mated and they have so many questions! Why does he do that? Why is she doing that? Why does he make that noise?

It's different with humans of course - in some ways. Similar in others. We've talked a great deal about human physiology, spirituality, feelings, hormones, responsibilities, outcomes. I give them the benefit of what I've learned in my life, though naturally, I can't know everything. I respect the kids - they respect me. I trust that I've given my kids all that I can give. They have to take it from there. It would feel wrong to say ~ you've got to go do THAT somewhere else. Like it would have been inferring it was dirty. My home is a sacred place, and my children are welcome to be here always....

Each child is different and each situation is different. I can't know what will be right until that time comes, if it does for each child.

Edited: I had to cut some stuff out because it was too much personal info. Sorry!


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## UUMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama in the forest* 
My children have been watching sexual activities since they were very young.
























On the farm.







The animals have so graciously provided me with many opportunities to talk about sex and mating. My kids have been present numerous times when various animals have mated and they have so many questions! Why does he do that? Why is she doing that? Why does he make that noise?
s.









And -wow- those roosters are something else. Sometimes even I have to look away.


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## mama in the forest

Quote:

And -wow- those roosters are something else. Sometimes even I have to look away








: I know it. You should see the llamas.


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## kimiij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom* 
*For those who said wait until after marriage*: Don't you think it is possible that your child could end up married to someone who is completely incompatible with them, sexually? Don't you think that is an unwise course of action? Heaven forbid they could end up with someone who is a sexual deviant in some way.

I was a virgin when I got married. I was lucky; he and I were compatible. But it could have just as easily gone the other way ....

But who's to say you know everything sexually about your partner if you're having pre-marital sex. I'm sorry but someone could be perfectly cordial sexually before marriage and then end up being sexually abusive or deviant after you've tied the knot. Having sex with someone before marriage, does not guarantee anything...


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## Tishie

My son is 15 and my daughter is 11, for context. We have very open communication when it comes to sex and other such things. I don't see anything wrong with having sex, and I would rather they do it in the safety of our home, if they'd prefer.

I started having sex at 14, and I wasn't too young for it.

Quote:

But who's to say you know everything sexually about your partner if you're having pre-marital sex. I'm sorry but someone could be perfectly cordial sexually before marriage and then end up being sexually abusive or deviant after you've tied the knot. Having sex with someone before marriage, does not guarantee anything...
That seems like a great argument against marriage, if I ever heard one! It turns people into deviants!


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## kimiij

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tishie* 
That seems like a great argument against marriage, if I ever heard one! It turns people into deviants!

That's very clearly not what I said.


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## intorainbowz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tishie* 
I started having sex at 14, and I wasn't too young for it.

That seems like a great argument against marriage, if I ever heard one! It turns people into deviants!

I was WAY too young at 14 and I think most people are too young at that age.

She did not say that anywhere in her post.


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## k-liz

I'm the mom of 2 teen girls (16 and 18) and a pre-teen boy (9). My two girls are , or have been, sexually active. They both are on birth control and take precautions. I am comfortable with this. We have always been close...in fact, when my oldest was 16, she'd been dating "mike" for about 5 months I think. She came home one day, sat down with my in my garage workshop, and said "mom, i have something to tell you, guess what happened today?". Almost jokingly, I said "what, you lost your virginity, right?" ...she looked at me with her jaw dropped..."how did you know?"....I told her that I'd been kidding- was she serious? The conversation went on from there. My first two questions were: "did you use protection?" (yes, of COURSE mom!) and "how was it for you?" (okay, but not great like I thought it would be). We then talked about sex really frankly- what feels good, how partners can please each other, etc, and emotional responses and attachments, and of course the physical and safer-sex aspects which we'd been already talking about for years.

My now-16 year old has had the same boyfriend for almost 1.5 years, and before that they were the best of friends. They sleep together, spend nights at each other's houses, and I know his parents very very well and we're all on the same page with this. She didn't tell me the same way my oldest did, but she let me know when she needed birth control. I had the same sort of talk with her- physical aspects, emotional attachment stuff, how to make sex good for yourself and your partner. She's less comfortable talking about it then her older sister, I don't know why- just personalities. But she does let me know what is going on in her life, and she's firm on NOT getting pregnant, and at this point is convinced she never wants children. (as opposed to my oldest, who is now sure she wants at least 3 kids, after college and career development of course, and LOVES babies!)

My 9-year-old has had the 'facts of life' talk several times, but is still at the age where he's squicked out by naked girl images (the occasional movie will have a shot of a topless woman, or he'll see a topless girl/woman at one of the river beaches we go to- he'll actually cover his eyes!) . He's not interested in girls yet, but we'll deal with that as it comes naturally, as we did for the girls.

I really do think that if you are okay with the idea that your children are sexually active with a partner, it is just as important to discuss "what makes good sex between partners" openly and honestly, without judgement, as it is to discuss safer-sex practices and the emotional repercussions of being sexually active with someone. I know i wish someone had told ME about my right to sexual pleasure, and the 'mechanics' of it, at the age I became active with a partner...instead of years of unsatisfying (for me) sex before figuring it out.

-karinne
partner to Matt, mom to Mariah (18) , Reyna (16), and Sage (9).


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## Jeanne D'Arc

*

I think we all should respect eachothers parenting choices when it comes to sexuality.

I am with the group that thinks its better to wait till you are older.

I also don't think waiting till marraige in inherently bad, because I know so many couples who waited until marriage and their stories are quite beautiful. And many of their marriages have turned out just fine. Being someone who was sexually active very very young, i think it did a ton of damage.

I think sex should be handled alot like a serious life choice, simply
because of how it can effect you in the future. It should be taken with great consideration, maturity, and perspective.

*


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## SuzanneDeAz

"My opinion is - they are going to do it anyways - why not safe and sober in your house than drunk in the woods?"

And how do you know if they are going to do it anyway?


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuzanneDeAz* 
"My opinion is - they are going to do it anyways - why not safe and sober in your house than drunk in the woods?"

And how do you know if they are going to do it anyway?

The idea is that if they decide to do it, they will. Not all of them will make that choice, but once they do there's nothing you can do to change their mind.


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## MadameXCupcake

Wow! Long old thread. But I'll add to it.

I meant to pick whenever or wherever but put the one that was like as long as I dont know about it. What that really means is DD's radio better be loud enough to where I don't hear it.









Me and DH have talked about this before and we were both raised where our friends or SO could stay the night. Just because they stayed over did not equal sex. My two yr boyfriend in high school lived with me for a year due to an abusive mother and we didn't have sex once. So in my experience I think most teens when given freedom and knowledge will make wise decisions.

Condoms are pretty good at protecting from STD's, and I honestly think the high STD rate is from all the teens on birth control worrying about pregnancy and not STD's so they don't use condoms. So STD's aside[since DD will have access to condoms] whats the worst that could happen? Well a baby! There are worse things in life than a child.







Every child is precious, if it was meant to happen then so be it.


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## Amila

My mother let my boyfriend spend the night, and I spent the night at his place too when I was 16-17. Now that I have children of my own DH and I decided this will NOT take place. There will be no sleeping over with boys. There WILL be talks of safe sex and natural consequences and (hopefully) of waiting for marriage, but I am not going to push that one too hard. Once they are in college, out of the house, fine. If it happens before then, I hope for open communication.


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## SuzanneDeAz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ryansma* 
I think UUMom was saying we (those who think 13 and 14 is too young for sex, period) are the MINORITY here on MDC.

Do you think a 13 or a 14 year old is old enough to support an take care of a baby? I say this because having a baby is a natural result of having sex. If one is not ready to deal with a possible result of a baby then they are not ready for sex. It is that simple.

All the heart break I hear in real life about child custody battles most likely would have been avoidable if people did not have sex till they met the right person and together they were able to support a child and stay in a loving relationship, such as within the bonds of a wholesome marriage.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuzanneDeAz* 
Do you think a 13 or a 14 year old is old enough to support an take care of a baby? I say this because having a baby is a natural result of having sex. If one is not ready to deal with a possible result of a baby then they are not ready for sex. It is that simple.

All the heart break I hear in real life about child custody battles most likely would have been avoidable if people did not have sex till they met the right person and together they were able to support a child and stay in a loving relationship, such as within the bonds of a wholesome marriage.

Um, you do realize that your arguing with comments made a year ago right?


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## SuzanneDeAz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Um, you do realize that your arguing with comments made a year ago right?


Well, I just came from a thread where one poster gave a rather long response to a problem that was addressed over 3 years ago. So this one year ago seems to be rather recent. In any case it is a topic that can be discussed just as well now as it was over a year ago.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SuzanneDeAz* 
Well, I just came from a thread where one poster gave a rather long response to a problem that was addressed over 3 years ago. So this one year ago seems to be rather recent. In any case it is a topic that can be discussed just as well now as it was over a year ago.

Yeah but general consensus is that a thread that was once dead will either not get the same posters responding because they no longer pay attention to it or it gets closed by the moderator for being a "dead thread walking." Like you don't restart an argument with someone a year after you've fought it.


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## chiromamma

I am unsure...and a bit nervous. I wish I had the absolute conviction of some of the parents who've responded.
My experience of being sexually active at a young age was a mistake. I would change it if I could. I had such low self esteem and boosted my ego by being hot in bed.
In theory, I like the idea of wait until you are married but honestly, that social more was established when folks got married quite young. I couldn't imagine expecting someone to wait until they are 30 to have sex. It doesn't seem natural.
I have suggested that my daughter wait until she knows she's deeply in love. We discuss sex as a sacred act. Her body and heart are too sacred to share with just anyone. I've made lots of mistakes as a mom. I certainly hope I haven't blown this one and she's open about her desires when they come up.
She's not into the boys at school...it's so small and they go on so many camping and overnight trips, they are more like siblings.
She's likely to fall for someone older so I'm sure this will come up sooner or later.


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## CaraboosMama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lanamommyphd07* 
I answered "other", because when I parented a sexually active teen who I had a very open and honest relationship with, I came up with some crafty ways to cultivate her development but still maintain some ability to "keep rank" in the house. I gave her books on sexuality, positions for intercourse, masturbation, etc. I encouraged her to do "everything but" as she would learn more about her body and whoever she was with that way. Intercourse is just too simple.
I would tell her that I would be away for the afternoon, say to a meeting, or work, or a class or something, and my partner was also away from the home. I figured, what she did with that time (sneak her boyfriend in a for a couple of hours, binge on the TV, whatever) was up to her. She was aware that we had rules in the house about no friends when she was alone, but when I discovered the bathroom seat up once, I didn't mention it, just checked in with her on condom supply and such. I also found a joint in her room once, but I didn't bust her--merely dumped some cayenne pepper in and re-rolled it. Let's just say--today, she is a very successful college student who has not become pregnant or picked up any std's, and has this strange aversion to pot.


This is awesome & the approach I would like to take as my kids get older. I don't think we will stress waiting for marriage (our kids are 4 and 2 so it's a ways off but I was discussing this with a friend recently). We will try to encourage that it be THEIR choice -- sex, and other choices as well. I know many of the choices I made when I became sexually active had nothing to do what what I really wanted, but what I thought the guy involved wanted, what was expected of me, etc. I want the kids to make their own choices - and I would have a lot of respect for a carefully considered decision to wait, or a carefully considered decision to become active.

I know that I do plan to involve the kids in AIDS volunteer work early on...I volunteered in an AIDS hospice in hs & college & it made quite an impact on me. My DH is the only person I ever had unprotected sex with!


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## kolleen9

I hadn't gone there mentally yet, but thanks for spurring the thought!

-Kolleen


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## Kidzaplenty

I voted After Marriage Only. I was a bit surprised that there were so many others vote the same way!


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## PoppyMama

Now that the thread is going again...

If I talk to my dc and am comfortable that they are in an equal relationship I will be fine with sleepovers. I have no regrets about my own sexual activity as a younger teen and I have no desire to control my dc sexuality.


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## angelpie545

For reasons of faith, I believe that one should wait until marriage before sex, and I hope that my children would do so. I won't knowingly allow them to have sex in the house while unmarried, but if they do so, I won't disown them or anything like that. I will express my disapproval, sure, and talk frankly with them about the consequences of sex, but they are still my kids and I will love them unconditionally regardless. I won't treat them any differently either.


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## urchin_grey

I would hope that my children wait to have sex until they find the right person, but I'm not going to control their sexuality. The marriage thing is moot as I'm not married myself (by choice).


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## tri31

As a mom who married my 1st husband at 17, I would say that teens are not mature enough to engage in such adult behavior. My daughter just turned 15this week and I have told her that sex should be a healthy expression of mature love between adults. She is not in a hurry to be saddled with adulthood. So I guess I would say that once she is able to hold a job and pay rent, if she were in a committed relationship I could accept her "decision". But I am strictly against marriage before 22.


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## Cherie2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tri31* 
As a mom who married my 1st husband at 17, I would say that teens are not mature enough to engage in such adult behavior. My daughter just turned 15this week and I have told her that sex should be a healthy expression of mature love between adults. She is not in a hurry to be saddled with adulthood. So I guess I would say that once she is able to hold a job and pay rent, if she were in a committed relationship I could accept her "decision". But I am strictly against marriage before 22.

statements like this really make me wonder what a parent might expect of a child who was told this. If she had a different idea would she be willing to talk to you about it? If she made a decision to have sex do you think you would even know about it?

I may not agree with everything my kids do, and I will share my preferences with them. But I fight the urge to saddle them with should's and judgment. I want them to know they can be honest with me whatever it is they choose to do or be, whether it aligns with my particular morals or not.


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## ~PurityLake~

_After open discussions of the natural consequence and in the home is fine!
_
I voted before reading the thread, because this is a very long thread!

I think the most important thing, outside of education, is emotional preparedness.

I was very responsible as a teenager, I had a job, I did my chores, I was in extracurricular activities in high school, I earned good grades even in my AP classes.

But, when I had sex the first time I was not emotionally or psychologically prepared for it. And I was only a couple months shy of 18 my first time.

I was raised Catholic until I was 11 and then my mother chose to attend an episcopal church. My step dad vacillates between atheist and agnostic, so I grew up knowing my spiritual choices were mine to make. My mom fully educated me on STD's, birth control, urged me to wait until marriage, but told me to come to her first for birth control if I thought I might be seriously considering having sex. In fact, she took me to the doctor at my request nearly 2 years prior to me even having sex. I was certainly thinking about it and wanting to do it long before I actually did. One awkward afternoon, my mother even offered to tell me about 'other things' I could do that wasn't actual sex, if I ever wanted to ask her (which I never did!). As open as my mother was with me, I still felt guilt for not waiting until after marriage. I thought I was 'damaged' for choosing to have sex before marriage. I think that affected my self esteem quite a lot, in fact. I was simply not emotionally prepared for the intimacy of it all.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is I think there should be not only the education we all know about regarding health, but also the emotional stuff. And I wouldn't even know where to begin as far as teaching my children about something so intangible. But I think it's (emotional intimacy and vulnerability) very important when it comes to sex.

I wonder if anyone has an idea on how something like that is taught without having experienced it. My mom said I always learned everything the hard way. But is there an easy way?


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## ~PurityLake~

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
When you say "teen" though, you could be talking about 13 on up to 18, and then each child in those ages has differing maturity for their age.

or 13 up to 19. And I see a 13-14 yr as in a different group than 15-16, or 17-18-19. The teenage years are a time of great development, both physically and mentally, as well as emotionally and in how to form and maintain relationships.

And someone earlier did point out how humans are not fully neurologically developed even up through their early 20's. I'm not sure how closely neurological and emotional development can compare, though.


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## Bestbirths

I cannot believe this thread is still alive and has grown so much....







: Holy Cow!


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## barbara73069

Looking at the poll results I find my personal views somewhat validated by the number of votes the "in home" option received. Among my own group of friends, I know I am in the minority by allowing my now 16 yr old DD to have sleep overs with her bf on a regular basis.

Although I respect others that may disagree with my parenting style, I have always believed that there is nothing "bad" about teen sex if they are in a loving relationship and are being safe. Sex is a very natural need that we all have and learning to enjoy sex without guilt or stigmas attached is part of growing up.

I want my daughter to realize that sex is only a part of a relationship but it can be a wonderful part, and although I never encouraged my daughter to become sexually active I do embrace and accept the fact that she is in a very committed emotional and physical relationship.


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## smillerhouse

The key for me is safe committed realtionship. My daughter, 15 is choosing not to do this and that concerns me. She has had sex in non-committed reqatlationships with at least two different partners since October. They were 18 and 19. I am emphaszing safety, self-seteem for her, committment,and and based on a loving realtionship. I relauctantly took her to get DepoVera Shot two months ago. I will have her checked out for Stds every three months. She has condoms and says she uses them but is so highly impulsive that I can't count on that.


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## Verity

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Especially the one who now, at 25 has men run from a relationship with her because no one wants to be the one to take her virginity. So now she is UNABLE to have an adult relationship because she was "waiting".

As someone who didn't lose her virginity until age 24, I have a hard time believing this. If a guy is saying he doesn't want to "take her virginity," that is another way of saying he's just not that into her. If a guy is really attracted to someone, he's going to _*refuse to have sex with her*_? WTH?

I regret having had sex at 24 because it just wasn't a good relationship. A year later, I was in a better relationship.

I just can't imagine a person having the emotional maturity to handle a sexual relationship in his or her mid-teens. Exposing yourself physically and, for girls, _*allowing someone into your body*_ leaves you very emotionally vulnerable.


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## barbara73069

Whether we want our kids to have sex or not really isn't the issue. I think it is more about if they do have sex, how do we as parents handle it.


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## Labbemama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barbara73069* 
Whether we want our kids to have sex or not really isn't the issue. I think it is more about if they do have sex, how do we as parents handle it.

Well said.

I'm not ready for my oldest child to be having sex but I think there is a small liklihood that she is. I had hoped she would wait longer and I have concerns about her handling it but she has been dating this boy forever in teen time and I think that eventually they will be. Especially if the boys mother continues like she is, making accusations and invading their privacy. And if it's at her house I will laugh. It happens here that will be another story.


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## churndash

I don't think that sex is only for marriage, but I do think sex is for adults and that my 15 year old is not an adult. This is not a new concept to the children, I started this whole "some things are for adults" since they were very small.

Apart from the possibility of getting pregnant or a disease, I think a sexual relationship is just a lot more complex than a non-sexual one and adults, generally speaking, are better equipped to cope with those feelings.

I would like to believe my kids and I have an open enough relationship that she would come to me if she wanted to have sex and talk to me about it. I really DO believe we have that relationship, but then again, you just never know 100% with kids so....she does have lots of other adults in her life, cousins, aunts, friends, so I think she'd go to someone in any case.

I would get her birth control if she were determined to have sex but I would not allow it to take place in my home. That's just beyond my comfort level. And of course I'd be there for her if things went badly, ranging from getting pregnant to getting her heart broken.


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## Minky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Verity* 
As someone who didn't lose her virginity until age 24, I have a hard time believing this. If a guy is saying he doesn't want to "take her virginity," that is another way of saying he's just not that into her. If a guy is really attracted to someone, he's going to _*refuse to have sex with her*_? WTH?

Actually, this happened to my sister. She "waited" until she was 22, met the man who is now her DH, and he made some comment about not liking virgins because there was too much pressure or something. She lied, said she wasn't a virgin, but told the truth just before they were going to have sex. Luckily (I guess--I don't think he's much of a catch), he stayed with her, but they ended up waiting until marriage.

Still, true as it is, it's no reason to have sex with just anyone to get rid of that pesky virginity. If he hadn't wanted the "commitment" of having sex with a virgin, he probably wasn't the right guy for her anyway if she wanted a long term relationship.


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## Tanibani

I lost my virginity at 23 to my first serious boyfriend and he didn't have a problem with it.


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