# Nov 05 mamas fooling around in April!



## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

The March thread

Life here is relatively calm and quiet. Skye just walked nearly two miles squatting down and jumping up saying cuckooevery five steps. I'm having a wobbly day, and River is having The Mother Of All Growth Spurts and has started grabbing for things and laughing.
Mel, congratulations to Matt









Is there an MDC april fools gag this year? I haven't seen it yet...


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
The March thread

...River is having The Mother Of All Growth Spurts and has started grabbing for things and laughing.









So sweet!

Our day consists of planting nasturtium, moonflowers, and cucumbers (bigger seeds for little hands); going to my school for whatever rest-of-the-year planning I can get done while the cousins entertain each other; and possibly doing some sidewalk chalk drawing (the thing my niece remembered and enjoyed most about being with us last time).

What are y'all up to this Fool Day?


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

just subbing for now. Happy April!!


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

Subbing, so I can keep up my membership in the River Fan Club!









Congrats to Matt, too, Mel! Will I see his book in Barnes & Noble, do you think? And it sounds like his book is at least partly a response to your _grand oeuvre_ - Neela!

Amy, I think we took about this long to think we could manage with a sibling for my eldest, too. I'll wait on placing my bet, for now... but Brynn is so special, I would love to see what her sibs would be like!









Thanks for the good wishes for my DH - still waiting, so please, still keep those fingers crossed!


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

<------- ?!? Where did that come from?







:
Thanks, someone! As infrequently as I get to post, this may be the only way I ever get to be a senior member!!









Ok, what is going on?


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Ack! Now I see the MDC April Fool's Day joke! Typing out a response is awful, everything is right-to-left. I think I'll have to post tomorrow!

April Fools Day is always weird for me. The guy I dated all through high school (and that I'm still really good friends with) and I broke up on april 1st and he always manages to remind me of it so I spend the day feeling guilty.







Plus, I generally just hate practical jokes!

Tomorrosw is DH's birthday - he turns 30! I just can't believe it. We're having some family over and I'm making steak and potatoes and a cake. So that should be nice. I still don't know exactly what I'm going to get him for his birthday, the kids are getting him a new Wii game and I don't know anything else he really wants right now. He always has crazy-high expectations on his birthday so its hard to figure out something that will live up to them.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

My response is typing normally, Jen. Maybe it's just a joke on YOU!









I actually love pulling practical jokes on people, but Jason being the highly sensitive person that he is, they don't always go over so well.







I've felt so crappy this morning that I haven't been able to think of anything good anyway, darn it.

Mel, that is soooo cool about Matt's book. So cool!! Big congrats to him!

Helen, Skye is hilarious. Cuckoo indeed. Hee hee!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Oh, so it's Monty Python, then, is it MDC? Well then, first the spankings, and then the oral sex! (I wonder who's getting *that* DDDDC!!)


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Happy April everyone!

And Mel, Big congrats to Matt! How terribly exciting! What a sense of accomplishment he must have, holding it in his hands, flipping through the pages.

Jen, hope you make it through the weirdness of today, and have a wonderful day tomorrow for your DH's birthday. How long did it take your rash to leave, after stopping grapefruit? Mine is still unfortunately going strong. Soon, I might go see someone, a facialists who could also help with diagnosing and treating.









And I hope this is the start to a glorious month for all of us!

I am indulging in a yoga class this afternoon, and then Finley and I are off for the day to play at a friend's. I've got corned beef in the crockpot for dinner. It's a good day.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Just a quick subbing post... have to take DH to the airport, he's off to San Francisco for a couple days.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Monty Python, eh? I was thinking "sit on my face, and tell me that you love me...."

No good April Fools joke (or Poisson d'Avril) jokes here, other than Neela skipped her nap yesterday and her daycare forgot to mention it to us, so we couldn't quite figure out why she slept in and was still exhausted this morning. But I







sleeping in on the mornings after I work.

I have the afternoon "off" and am going for a hot tub at a local place that does hourly rentals in cute little private roofless huts.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I had some "time off" this afternoon, too! I went shopping and saw Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day (fun movie!) and had a lovely time. A hot tub would have been even better, though!


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Oh, and about the grapefruit rash - I think it went away within a week or so. I'm sorry I don't remember better, it happened when I was in college.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Ooooh, I'm very jealous about the hot tub place, Mel!

It's so sad, DD is verrry lonely right now. We haven't been to the gym or out with other people because I've been sick with this stupid thing that everybody has, and she is really missing being with other people. Her one babysitter who used to watch her Wedsdays for a few hours had quit back in Feb, and then our other friend who occasionally sits for her hasn't been around and hasn't returned my calls. (Thinking maybe she's busy with midterms or something, she's in school and also has a new job, etc..) But her name is Mel also, and DD has been seeing every person who even vaguely looks like her when we're out and about and saying, "Look! It's Mel!!" and then "Want Mel to come play with Ella! Want Mommy and Daddy to go out, and Mel come take care of Ella!" Tonight in the car on the way to dinner she saw someone walking on the street who looked like her, and we had to tell her that it was not her, it was a lady who looked a little bit like her. DD started crying and had a total meltdown in the restaurant, sobbing, "Want Meellllllll!" She also is very hopeful every time we are going to go get some food that we are going to lunch with Brynn and Amy. I had a babysitter scheduled for a few hours yesterday because I had a root canal scheduled. I didn't feel very good and so I ended up canceling the dentist appointment but didn't cancel the sitter, and she was soooo thrilled that someone else was there to play with her. She is just such a social butterfly! Her latest trick is smiling and acting flirtatious and blowing kisses at people wherever we go. She can seriously just charm the pants off of anybody. We just laugh that she's a diva-in-training. Many have suggested to DH that he's going to need to watch out and invest in serious weaponry once she gets a bit older!









No April Fools jokes here. The closest I came to that was that I glanced down at HoneyTree's post about planting nasturtiums too quickly, and thought it said, "Today we're planning maturbation . . . " After a double take I quickly realized the error of my ways, however!!









Oh, one very exciting piece of news is that Ella is potty trained!! (Well, daytime at least including naps. Didn't branch out into nighttime yet although she not infrequently wakes up with a dry diaper anyway, just not always!) I decided at the end of last week after running critically low on diapers yet again that it's stupid to wait just because of the India trip, and that I'm sick of the expense and running to the store for diapers, and that as long as I was home sick I should just bite the bullet and go cold turkey on the diapers. So I did and she's been doing fine on the potty with very few accidents. She even does it pretty much by herself--she'll just independently go in the bathroom, get her pants and undies down herself, sit on the potty, go, dump the potty contents into the toilet, flush, and then rinse out her potty in the tub!! I'm very excited. She's been pottying part time at home for a long time now, but I've never had any success when out and about so I've usually put her in diapers. Finally I had just decided last week that her potty ring that she uses at home will just have to go with us in a big plastic grocery bag everywhere we go for a while! I'd bought two different types of folding potty rings for her, but neither of them worked out, but she's started going on the potty ring in public bathrooms. Yay!!! I am so relieved! A funny note too is that I usually refer to it as "potty learning" because I don't like the sound of "training"--put at some point one of us (DH or I) said something about potty training, and she was very excited about the "potty train"--I think she is thinking of it as a train ie the mode of transportation! So she's quite thrilled about that!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Susannah, come and scrub mine instead- I honestly don't remember the last time it was done







:

I'd love to - are you paying for my ticket over the big lake?







:









And wow to all of the DDDDC - I just wish I knew what they meant!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

You don't know Monty Python?????????


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## SoulJourney (Sep 26, 2005)

Hey all!









Peeking in to say hello! I miss everyone but we have been busy, as usual. Most of the time, if I am on the computer, it's to edit photos and soon it will be for school work, also. Noah is amazing(ly frustrating, too!) and now has earned two different sets of stitches...*drumroll*...ON HIS FACE. In two months, mind you. Split his bottom lip sliding around on socks on the hard woods and busted his head open above his right eye riding his tricycle off of the back deck. He's going to be a daredevil like his mother. I thought this would excite me but now it makes my tummy turn! I don't think I can handle any more trips to the ER. UGH = )

Kavita: Congrats on the potty training...Noah just puts his over his head, using it as a big mouth and runs around saying he's a potty mouth or a BIG monster!







This summer is my goal. Period.

OK, gotta roll...I'm still catching up on you all, trying to read last months thread!

Love & miss everyone!

Michelle & Noah Sage


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Michelle, I just checked out your blog! Your photography is AMAZING!!! No wonder you're so busy--I bet you're booked solid! Just wow, mama.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I wouldn't stress, Michelle. Skye reverted back to nappies







No biggie, I'll deal. I thought it was too good to be true.

Having a truly meh life here. Alex is in trouble again, and my heart is breaking for him. I just don't know what I did so wrong.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Michelle! It's so good to see you!!! Your photography is BEAUTIFUL!!!! You are so talented. I love how sharp, yet emotional they are. So glad that is going well for you.

We, too, are behind on potty learning. I am hoping for this summer, too. He is so resistant to the potty, it is a little daunting. I was thinking of just going cold turkey and putting him in underwear (when at home) and letting him have accidents and figure it out. What do y'all think? Good idea or bad idea? I've been having him naked as much as possible at home, so at least he is getting the idea, somewhat, of when he pees and what it feels like. Help?!










Kavita--congrats on potty learning!!! How fantastic! (I'm jealous!) I hope you are feeling better and back to yourself soon, if not by now. And I hope little Ella gets her dose of socialization to keep her happy. She sounds absolutely adorable with her charming ways.

Helen, if you don't mind my asking...what is Alex going through? I'm so sorry he is having a hard time, and that your heart is breaking. Don't even begin to say it is something you did wrong, though! Doesn't everyone have hard times, regardless of how great their mama is?









Gotta run!!!







to all


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

double post - sorry


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Hey Michelle! I loved looking at your photo blog - the pictures are amazing! I would love to come up and have you shoot Brynn, if you would. Maybe this summer? And what is this about being a student??! And, oh dear, you certainly have a BOY on your hands, don't you? I had to read that, "riding his tricycle OFF the deck" twice to make sure I was reading it right!









Helen,







- what barcelona said. It's not you.

Alicia, Monique, and Gunter - I'm thinking about you, mamas, and your new babes.







How are you all doing? I miss hearing from you!

Kavita - poor Ella-bee. I think we are going to come down tomorrow mid-dayish. Do you want to have lunch or go to the mall with us?

barcelona, sorry your face isn't clearning up.







: That's so annoying. What's new on the series front?

I had a really nice morning, and have had that feeling of being right in the world again, which feels so good! I woke up at 6:30 and went for a walk and watched the sunrise, which always starts my day out on the right note, and then I took Brynn to the babysitter's for the morning. She and I had both been having some serious concerns about whether it was going to work out because her daughter (3 yo) was really having a hard time sharing and respecting Brynn's physical boundaries (Isadora loves to hug and hold hands, and Brynn definitely doesn't), so Brynn was getting very emotional every time they were even in the same room. We mamas both privately wondered if it was going to work out, but today the girls had a really good time together and Rhonda said that they are both consciously trying to use their words and practice sharing - so that was a huge relief. I know not every day is going to be fabulous, but at least we know they are *capable* of playing together harmoniously. So I went to the library and worked on PhD stuff, and it felt SO GOOD! The really academic side of me has been in hibernation for 3 years, so getting the chance to stretch my brain again was almost euphoric.







I'm feeling really good about getting back into my program, and very happy to have some regular time to myself now for non-mommy stuff.

Speaking of which, I think barcelona asked if we'd talked about it baby-making again...and we haven't. I think on Sunday I was really elated about it because it was the first time Jason really expressed a *desire* for another child, but the more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that I really enjoy how easy things have become lately (and I LOVE getting a solid night's sleep almost every night!!), and it feels so good to have a part of myself back again...so I just don't know if I want to give all of that up right now. But it does feel nice to know we are both open to the idea, even if it's just "someday."

And back to the conversation in last month's thread about creativity - I am definitely finding that I also need a regular creative outlet in order to feel balanced. It used to be my sling-making, but the appeal really wore off when it became a business. Now, I have to admit, my blog has totally become my means of creative expression. I absolutely love it, from mentally composing before I write and picking out the pictures I'll use, to coming up with a clever title and adding links to enhance the topic. It's really been gratifying for me, and I think even if no one read it, I would still do it for myself.









And now, for a True Confession: I've totally been relying on the electronic babysitter for short periods of time during the past few days, and I have to say I can definitely see the appeal. I've kind of slacked up on myself a bit and have given myself permission not to be Perfect Mother ever second of the day, which is a nice break. I mean, what's a little Clifford or Pooh now and then?

PS: What the heck is up with MDC today??!!







:


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

Oy oy oy.

First off Leah is already a month old. How did that happen? At 25 days old she weighed in at 9 lbs 13 oz and had grown an inch an a half since birth. She's thriving. I teased the doctor that I make cream not milk









We have been MIA lately because the powers that be struck down my entire household (brand new person included) with a horrible case of viral bronchitis. Oh dear God has it been miserable around here. DH got it worst, Jacob followed right behind and both of them were diagnosed and are on inhalers (seriously a joke with the two year old.) Leah was seen at here 3 week check up and confirmed that she's got *it* too but rest and fluids are her best bet...good thing that's her life right now. She is projectile vomiting on average once a day because of the drainage. I'm so ready for healthy around here. I am sick too but refuse to admit it because someone has to try to keep everyone else going. gah.

They just figured out what clerical error was holding up my March paycheck and it was released today *yay*

I took in all my paperwork on the April paycheck that I should have received yesterday showing the payroll people the plethora of problems and it will be released April 9th. So things are looking up...slowly but surely.

I *will* have to go back to work. I will be there for 8 weeks. It is gut wrenching. I feel numb about it. Of the 8 weeks I'll be there we have the state testing for 2 of them and then the last week of school is all minimum days. I signed Leah up for daycare at the one where Jacob went to and reenrolled Jacob. Jacob will be going back a few days early to give me some time with just Leah and then Leah will start the 21st. After that I am *done* working. I will be staying home with the kids.

We revamped our future plans to include a year *ish* near Chicago. DH and I both grew up near Chicago (DH downtown and me an hour south). My dad still lives in the house I grew up in and DH's parents still live in Chicago. We are *convinced* we get along better with our families when we aren't close, but we are going to give it a try...see if being close will be something we like and appreciate. My dad lives in a big ole house by himself now and so he created an apartment of sorts upstairs. We are going to stay there initially until we know where DH will be working. It will give us a chance to re-save up from some of the crud we've been through this year and to finish getting debt free. It will be good for the kids to be near grandparents..even if it is a temporary thing. Our families can be a little overwhelming. If we feel it's too much we will go ahead with our earlier plans of Colorado...but *after* DH gets his job. The biggest problem is we desperately want out of where we are, enough to move before we have a job...so that's why we are headed to family.

Kavita - Yay on the potty learning!! Jacob has potty learned on the big potty. He climbs up himself, flushes and then washes his hands and brushes his teeth. He has to brush his teeth every time he is at the sink







ub: BUT the catch around here is he has to be naked. If I put ANYTHING underwear, pants, diaper etc on his bottom. He uses it. I am not sure what the next step is for us as he has done this all on his own really without my prompting. I *think* we are going to try elastic waist pants that are loose-ish and see if he can continue with them on and then go from there. I don't really know what to think as I'm sure going back to daycare is going to set back his progress anyway.

Mel - color me jealous! Sounds wonderful!!

barcelona - I hope things start looking up for you guys soon. I know it's crazy right now. I *will* be in touch. Sorry things have been NUTS with us all sick.

Ooh and question for mama's with more than one kiddo. How in the dickens do you ever leave the house with the kids by yourself? I am drowning. I've been told the only way to do it is to have a double stroller, but my ebullient child won't sit that long in a stroller and I can't keep up with him and take care of Leah...any ideas?


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Helen -







. I am sure whatever is wrong, it is not your fault. Please don't blame yourself. Alex is a great kid, he will get through it, whatever it is.

As far as the potty learning goes... we are so not there. Rowan is *really* resistant to the idea of going on the potty at the moment and I'm not willing to force the issue. What I would like, though, is for the same rules to apply to her poops AND mine. When she goes, she gets to hide behind a chair and tell me to go away. When *I* go, she's gotta stand right beside me, peering into the toilet.







. I've got her to back off now, but for some reason she still wants to be in the bathroom. Fortunately we have a fancy electronic scale that keeps her occupied, sort of.

Amy - I too use the electronic babysitter, although it's finally losing its appeal for her and she's been asking more for books. If you only have a couple DVDs, they lose their appeal after a while









And... she's completely over her weird little clingy thing. The past couple times I've taken her to her grandparents' place, she's stood at the door yelling "bye bye mummy!!!" all happy happy. I think it was because my mom was here... she'll be back for a longer visit in a few weeks and I'm *definitely* going to be more proactive at getting them comfortable with each other.

I'm feeling kinda bleeehhh today... no particular reason, except the house is a huge mess and I have some writing to do, and I want to pot my tomatoes and a bunch of other stuff and I don't think I have time for all of it this afternoon so I'm totally procrastinating on everything. Does that make sense?







. The dog lucked out though - I took her on a looooong procrastinatory hike this morning.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

kaspirant, have him walk when there's no pressure (again, the infamous middle-of-the-field parenting strikes again) The double buggy is working for us- as long as River isn't being carried, Skye is happy to walk. When she falls asleep on the seat next to me on the bus on the way home, I can dump her in the buggy. When it's too far to walk (c.f. school) then I can strap her in the buggy and hope the screaming stops soon. I'm so sorry you're going back to work, but it looks like you can see where life is going from here.

Right, the saga. Alex has had problems with persistent teasing and ostracising at school this year, and he has been very wound up by this. He's pretty easy to provoke if you take time to figure out which buttons to press, and predictable as well- so the same buttons work day in, day out. He tried telling the teaching assistants supervising the playground and asking for help and got nowhere.
SO he started taking matters into his own hands and getting aggressive- the problem being that Alex is a sweet and gentle boy most of the time and is your archetypal skinny geek. We've seen him kick off, and it isn't a convincing show of a small boy who is hell-bent on damage and destruction, it looks more like someone who has read a script of what violent and aggressive behaviour is meant to be, kwim? SO this has been going on, and the school is working their way up the discipline policy (they have apparently accepted that the acts against him were bullying, and acted accordingly) and we were at level 6 of 8- meeting with your parents. The school has put chill-out zones in place for kids who are having a hard time keeping their tempers, made him a librarian to give him the opportunity to excuse himself from the playground and they have literally covered the school in posters talking about feelings and how to handle them, so they've put a certain amount of work into this, and we've done the same thing at home.
Then yesterday, one of Isaac's friends was running around like a mad thing, bumped into Alex (who was sitting balanced on a wooden beam) and knocked him over. Alex fell down, lost his temper, accused Jordan of doing it on purpose and grabbed his arms. Jordan tried to make him let go so Alex hit him







Then he lied about what had happened, which is completely unfair because Jordan gets himself in enough trouble for things that he does mean to do without being blamed for things that he doesn't: and half of the boys there, including Isaac, heard him say sorry. His class teacher was pretty close to tears talking to me about it last night, and it's just all gone very very very horribly wrong for him. I'm just hoping and praying that he decides to turn the corner here and get things straight in his own head.

Thanks for reading if you've got this far- I know it's a bit of an essay, it's just all been pretty horrible, and I'm freaking out. I'm back to planet next-door-neighbour- to- PPD, and I could really do with having all my wits about me now.

BTW, Amy, don't make cracks about BOYS, otherwise you will have triplet boys and you will spend the rest of your natural life washing muddy soccer kits. Did I mention Isaac is on the school team now, btw?


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
You don't know Monty Python?????????









No







:

kaspirant - I'm glad that your paycheck was finally figured out. Needing to go back to work - ugh. At least you have an end in sight though, right?!

Helen - I'll be thinking of you and your Alex. And PPD - stay away!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
BTW, Amy, don't make cracks about BOYS, otherwise you will have triplet boys









:

ETA: hmm. And with that post my April Fools fun-ness went away. Oh well.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Helen, I'm so sorry Alex is having a rough time of it. I'm glad that the school has responded in some supportive ways so far--I especially liked the librarian thing, assuming Alex is keen on the idea. You said that you'd tried talking to the assistant teacher who's on the playground and got nowhere, which is troubling because in my experience, the playground is the primary place where social strains tend to surface at our school, and one of the most successful things we've done is to assign kids invisible buddies during tough times. The way it works is that a teacher kind of shadows a child from a distance, not hovering, not interfering, and hopefully without the child noticing, but just being close enough to assess the dynamic and provide support and encouragement before a blow-up or a bullying situation can develop. The teachers have to be available enough and willing for it to work, though, but like I said, it's really done wonders for us.

Amy, these past two days with my niece sound a lot like what you described with Brynn's little friend. It was SO hard to watch and facilitate the sharing thing, fully knowing that I was working against development with both of them. But Woody is simply quite likely to share at any given moment, and my niece was not, but in a push-pull situation like that, Woody was happy to scream "MINE!" back at her or to hoard toys when he saw her doing that. I kept finding myself slipping into wondering if he was picking up "bad" habits from her or unlearning what he seems to have learned intuitively. Of course I know better, and I kept telling myself that he's going to have to navigate this complicated social situation and many, many more to come, so we trudged through.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

HT, thanks. I think the primary problem is that there isn't adequate support for the children on the playground and there isn't enough supervision. We're in two minds whether to pull him now and HS, or whether to see it through until the end of the school year. Steve is on board with hsing (finally) but for me, it's a crap time and it really is the last resort.

Mel, are you still hunting cake recipes? There were some raw food ones in my green parent mag, including a yummy looking chocolate torte...


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Yes, send any recipes my way, Helen! My husband thinks my "project" is hysterical, and our friends think I've gone off the deep end, so I'm set on impressing everyone with a cake that meets all the rules (which are: eggless, dairyless and kosher for passover). And soccer? You sound like an American







Good luck with Alex, too. I really hope he figures things out









kaspirant~ I'm so sorry that your SAHM-hood has to be delayed. And about the terrible bronchitis. I hope things get better soon. And daycare may be good for potty learning- a bit of peer envy helped Neela when she had a potty strike.

Kavita~ Way to go with the pottytrain :LOL I kind of suspected she might not last until after your trip. We're struggling with a fear of public bathrooms and have resorted to using the baby bjorn potty in the trunk at times. Those stupid automatic flush toilets have Neela so afraid that she sometimes won't even go into public bathrooms when *I* need to pee







:

Amy~ I'm glad the PhD work is feeling good for you and that you worked out a good childcare situation.

We are working on THE LAST MOLAR here. Two corners are through, and it's a big bruised mess (and a cranky one). But it's almost finished! DH just got his MFA exam this afternoon, and will be writing like mad for the next five days until he submits it on Tuesday. I think we'll have to throw a combined exam, new book and end of teething party next week. I may be offline for a while, since the computer will be in heavy use between now and then.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

MelW said:


> Yes, send any recipes my way, Helen! My husband thinks my "project" is hysterical, and our friends think I've gone off the deep end, so I'm set on impressing everyone with a cake that meets all the rules (which are: eggless, dairyless and kosher for passover). And soccer? You sound like an American
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaspirant* 
They just figured out what clerical error was holding up my March paycheck and it was released today *yay*

Well thank goodness for that! I'm sure that must have been incredibly stressful for you. Sorry to hear that you were all sick too, on top of everything else.







I'm sorry that you will have to go back to work for the last 8 weeks - I know that really sucks, and I hope it goes by quickly for all of you.

Mel, I can't believe Neela's got all of her molars now! Brynn still hasn't sprouted the first one, but I think it may be coming soon because she's been gnawing on her fingers for the past few days and I can feel a huge bulge on that side. Sounds like you all will definitely have reason to celebrate come next week!!









And what's with the flames about my BOY comment?? I totally meant it in a loving way. But it was kind of funny - yesterday Jason was talking to my dad on the phone and they were talking about the time we went camping when I was around 2-ish, and I burned both hands on the camp stove (which was like a big wood-burning oven kind of thing) after my dad had *just* told me to stay away from it, and then they were talking about when I was around 4, and I split my chin open after having slid across the wet garage floor (I was ice skating), again right after my dad had told me not to. I went to the ER *way* more as a child than my brother ever did!


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Wow - several are still working on molars, eh? Ellie's had her's for months and months. Seriously, I think they all had come in by the end of last summer!

Its a beautiful morning so we're off to run errands for awhile. This afternoon I think I'm going to be working on another quilt... should be a fun day!

Killian is going through a real "testing" phase and boy is it hard! Lots of tantrums, lots of screaming, lots of trying to tell us what we can and can't do. Last night I was about ready to run away from home, but this morning he woke me up smiling and saying, "Can you play with me? Please?" and has been very sweet so far all day. Here's hoping the errands go well!


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Wait - Mel, you are talking about Neela's two-year molars, right? That's what I was talking about. Brynn's had her first molars since last summerish too.

Oh that reminds me, Jen - I need to get my quilt to you!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
Wait - Mel, you are talking about Neela's two-year molars, right? That's what I was talking about. Brynn's had her first molars since last summerish too.

Oh that reminds me, Jen - I need to get my quilt to you!


Ella's been done with her 2 year molars for a few months now too.







Thank goodness--teething sucks!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Amy, the flames about the boy comment were predominantly because I don't want my beautiful, talented, creative and sensitive guys to turn out to be typical "boys"- the pressure to be a real boy, or a real man, is what's led to Alex's horrendous problems at school, amongst other things. I'm not offended, but if I call you on it now then maybe everyone else on this thread will stop and think, we have, what, 50 sons between us?- and then perhaps just one little kid won't get bullied for being crap at tag.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Amy, the flames about the boy comment were predominantly because I don't want my beautiful, talented, creative and sensitive guys to turn out to be typical "boys"- the pressure to be a real boy, or a real man, is what's led to Alex's horrendous problems at school, amongst other things. I'm not offended, but if I call you on it now then maybe everyone else on this thread will stop and think, we have, what, 50 sons between us?- and then perhaps just one little kid won't get bullied for being crap at tag.

Um, _called me on it_? I don't really think I need to be called on anything, Helen. Sorry, but the above has nothing to do with me or my comment to Michelle. I tried to make light of it by telling about my own daredevilish, tom-BOY tendencies as a child, so I don't really appreciate being treated like I said something provocative or offensive.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Amy, when I read about Noah Sage's launch off of the deck, almost your exact same words came to my mind. But Helen, when I read what you said, and thought about where you were coming from, I realized exactly what you were seeing.

You can both tell me to piss off if you like, but I'm just going to throw out there that I don't think that the intentions of the above posts were either to stereotype boys or to make a personal attack.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Amy** 
And what's with the flames about my BOY comment??

I'm sorry if I offended - I did not mean it as flaming at all. In my mind I was lovingly laughing based on the recent discussion about the possibility of you getting pregnant. Aaaaaaaaand when I read about Noah riding off the deck I immediately remembered Keagan running off the cliff at my MIL's house last year while chasing the cat, so I was picturing those situations in my mind. . .
This is one problem I have with communicating on the internet. It is just so hard to convey feeling in a post. Someone says something and then it is not taken as it was meant


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yep. Amy, you are right in that I shouldn't have used words like "I called you on it" but life is seriously, seriously hard for small boys nowadays and right now I'm deep in the trenches just watching yet one bomb after another head over to me and challenge everything that I hope my children will become. And frankly, I'm sick of it and I know that generally, you go deep on stuff and really think about things. If you hadn't come back asking why we were commenting on it, I'd have let it go quite happily- but you didn't.
And in answer to the obvious next question, yes, I do feel that Skye has had it much easier than her older siblings in terms of relating both to other children and to adults.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I lost my baby.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'm so sorry







: LMK if there is anything I can do, or if you need someone to listen, OK?


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

DiD, I'm so sorry.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

oh Did! I'm so sorry!!! hugs and prayers.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

I'm so sorry, Lydia.







.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I just got back from the hospital a little while ago. I ended up having to go in because I started hemorrhaging really badly and did not have anything to help me control the bleeding. I had to have a d&c and spent about twelve hours being monitored, as my blood pressure was extremely low and my heartrate was very high. I had some iv fluids and a little bit of rest and then begged for them to let me go home. The doctor kindly allowed me to go home after strict instructions to do absolutely nothing for the next week. I'm not sure how I'm going to manage that but my sister may end up staying here for the week.

It was only luck that my sister was here. She stayed with me every moment and kept me in good spirits. Her husband bought me some beautiful purple tulips and everyone has been really super nice to me.

I am waiting for the loss to really hit me. I cried quite a bit in the hospital while my sister ran home for clean clothes. I am still working through the emotions and I imagine it will be a long road to emotional healing. Thankfully because of the d&c I am pretty much just spotting now but I need to work really hard to get my red blood cells and iron back up, they are quite low at the moment.

For the time being, I am surrounded by loving family members and I thank my lucky stars I did not have to endure this alone.

Thank you all for your love and support. It means the world to me right now.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

DiD, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I am glad that you are doing okay despite all and that you have family to help you in this difficult time.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I saw your thread in the DDC- I'm glad you had time to say goodbye before the D&C. I'm here if you want me, or else the PABL forum


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Lydia, I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Lydia, Another big hug for you.







. I am so sorry for your loss. Know we are here, as you go through your healing process.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

My sister is going to take me to the nursery to get the willow tree. I couldn't even call to ask if they had them. I know I am going to cry there. I need to get out of the house though. I feel like I'm suffocating here.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Lydia, I am so sorry. My thoughts will be with you.


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Lydia. I am so sorry.








Helen. I''m sorry about the rough situation with Alex at school.


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

DiD - I am so sorry. What a blessing to have your sister there, and how kind your BIL was - it sounds like you are in good hands. Take good care of yourself physically and emotionally; I hope you heal quickly. I know you will find all the support you need here - you are surrounded by mamas who love you and who know the depth of loss you are feeling, since many of us have been through similar losses.
Sending healing vibes to you....


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

DID, big hugs to you and gentle healing. I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

The willow I bought is actually less of a tree and more of a shrub. It will grow to be 4-8 feet and its foliage will be white and light pink. Fitting for a baby we felt would have been a girl. I also bought another azalea, one with reddish-purple blooms. My grandmother gave me a pink azalea when Suriya was born and promised me another azalea when I had another daughter. At least I have something alive to tend to to honor the memory of my lost little one. It hurts a lot right now.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

How much do Gabriel and Kolaiah know?

I feel bad about lightening the mood, but a miracle seems to have happened here. Skye went to bed without a dummy quite happily and didn't even ask for it







She's done about 18 hours now without a plug in her mouth (it's 7am here) and please, please, let it last







: I was feeling sick in my stomach thinking of weaning her off it, but she doesn't talk as clearly as I'd like.
Oh, can anyone translate ni-ni for me? She uses it a lot nd I have no idea what she means


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

We were honest with Gabriel but Kolaiah doesn't know yet. I wasn't sure what to tell him.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

DiD, I hope you're feeling better - or not, if that's what feels right for you right now.







. How old is Koliah now?

We're having a bit of a day here. Rowan was suspiciously agreeable to me having a shower this morning - without any TV or anything - and I should have listened to my "something is not right" instincts, but oh no, I wanted to shave my legs... Just as I was towelling off, she schlepped into the bathroom with a mummy-you're-not-going-to-like-this look on her face, holding a very wet stuffed toy otter. I asked her why Otter was all wet and she said "I wanted to see if Otter could swim but he couldn't." I asked her if she was trying to get Otter to swim in Daisy's water bowl and my heart just sank as she said "No, on the floor." So I went into the living room and found she had dumped the entire contents of her water bottle out onto the carpet and the hardwood beside it... she was soaked, and it took 2 big bath towels to sponge most of the water off the floor. Fortunately the carpet is actually an area rug so I was able to prop a small stepstool under it so it could dry out.

And then! when we got home from playgroup there was a smell of YUCK in the living room and the dog had obviously had a squitty nasty accident on another part of the rug. OMG, the horror. You cannot imagine the grossness of this smell - she got too many table scraps yesterday I think, including some leftover Chinese, and she's supposed to be on a raw diet - uuuggghhhhh. And I had to clean it up while Rowan had minor meltdowns because she was totally ready for a nap, but I could NOT stand to be in the room any longer with the stench.

So I'm hoping the afternoon goes a little better.







I think the carpet is cursed. What kind of rituals does one perform to remove curses from carpets?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Something involving a lot of sodium bicarbonate?


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Kolaiah is 4. I don't think he even really "got" that I was pregnant or what that meant. I'm not sure what to do.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Something involving a lot of sodium bicarbonate?









Oh, there's a LOT of that on the floor right now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Kolaiah is 4. I don't think he even really "got" that I was pregnant or what that meant. I'm not sure what to do.

I don't know... I do know that the 4 year olds that I know (or have known) would have been worried about mama being unhappy, and reassured to know that there was a reason. Does he know that babies grow in mamas' bellies? You could tell him that you were starting to grow a baby, but it didn't grow properly and fell out, and that made you sad because you wanted another baby. I mean, you don't have to get into details, right? Or is he the type that *wants* to know all the details? It's hard to say, because kids are all different... maybe if he isn't distressed, just don't worry about it? He might instinctively be aware that it's nothing to do with him, and you'll fill him in on what he needs to know when the time is right, too.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Okay, I am totally freaked out today. I took Ella to Wendy's (I know, I know!) this afternoon for lunch and there was this nice older lady (like probably 80's) there who was pretty much the only person there. Of course Ella had to flirt and talk with her and found a very receptive and pleased audience, so she was going crazy and talking up a storm to this woman about the fishies and the alligators, the piggies and the big bad wolf, and on and on. She was quite complimentary about Ella's energy and sociability and intelligence and of course asked her how old she was, and confirmed with me who told her that yes, she was 2, almost 2 1/2. So we were all chatting a bit, then after a bit she asked me, "So how long have you had her?" I was like, huh?







I wasn't even sure what she had asked and was thinking, "Didn't I just tell her she was 2 1/2?" so I just asked, "What?" and she asked me, "How long has she been with you?" My brain was sort of refusing to process this and I just said, "Um, since she was born." It was only after a moment had passed that I really completely comprehended, "Holy crap, this woman thinks she's adopted!!!!" We were all heading out the door by that point and it wasn't like there was any point in really trying to clarify this further and she was a very sweet and well meaning lady so I figured I'd just drop it. But I was so suprised!!







I mean, she's a little bit darker than me and I've had a person or two in public ask me what race her father is or where he is from, but I think most of you who have seen pics of her and me could probably agree that she doesn't look *that* radically different (does she?!)--I mean, she pretty much has my exact same hair (only mine is straight and hers curls quite cutely, but mine did that at that age too!). She certainly doesn't look like a carbon copy of me but I can definitely see a lot of genetic similarity there too--as she grows she seems to pass through phases where she looks more like me, then more like DH, then more like me again. It was just so weird!

Anyway, I just had to share because for some reason it really actually was a little bit upsetting! I kind of didn't have a good way to really say that she was my biological kid, especially because I was caught so off guard for a minute there--I wasn't quite sure what she was getting at in time. I almost sort of said, "She's mine!" but then realized that this would imply that she *wasn't* mine if she were adopted, which I didn't want to say because that's not a very nice way to think about adoption! Then by that time it was all over!


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Spughy, yuck! No smell is less welcoming upon arriving home than sick dog poop. Poor you! Poor Rowan! Poor Daisy!!

So Woody's in a hitting/punching/throwing-things-at-people phase. It just appeared, brought on, I think, by the week of contention with his cousin, but doubtless it was in the works already. Today I did not get a chance to fully brief his mid-day caregiver, so she brought him into the classroom to me pretty upset after he'd whalloped the other teacher's 1 1/2 y.o. on the head.

She told me that she had put him in time-out and had told him to think about what he'd done. I was seething and kept him with me until I could talk with her at lunch time. I was totally spinning out into all the worst-case scenarios, most of which involved either me or dh quitting our job so that I wouldn't have to trust* anyone else with my child's emotional safety or upbringing. (*I don't trust anyone with these things anyway, not even my own mother, who tries to sneak him junk food.)

At lunch we had a long talk, fortunately for me with another very AP parent in the room to kind of support/rephrase what I was saying. And my caregiver was very receptive to everything I was saying, and kept repeating that she was glad to know it so that she could provide consistency. So by the end of the day I felt better about it, but still my faith in this situation was shaken to say the least.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Kavita, I am so sorry that happened to you







How much did Ella hear or understand?
DiD, on talking to my guys then Isaac hasn't really registered my series of miscarriages







: Yes, OK, this is Isaac but unless Kolaiah goes deep into stuff, I think you're good with him just skipping along not going into details.
Honeytree, I do get where you're coming from, but I think that the caregiver handled the situation pretty well. She separated the children and yes, ideally Woody wouldn't have been shamed and isolated- but at the same time she kept them both safe and was gentle with him. With mine, I'd have been more freaked out if she'd read him the riot act.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Ugh, Kavita. I think I would have been a little upset, too, though it being a well-meaning and otherwise kind older woman, I probably also would have let go the whole "white"-people-marry-"white"-people assumption.

Helen, of course you're right. And today I feel much better about it. I kind of joked with her when I went in to get him at snack time that for the first time I was reluctant to ask how the morning went. Shamed and isolated are exactly the two words I used yesterday when I told dh what happened, and I think that's the frame of mind that made me so upset. And maybe this is a "first/only child" kind of parental thing to do, but I think if anyone's going to screw up my kid's self-esteem, it better be me, so that I can spend my old age helping him fix it!!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Have you read Hold on to your kids? You might want to. Fwiw, though, my boys stepmother is obsessed with time out and uses it a lot. The boys tell me about it in a shocked tone of voice but it actually seems to work really well for her and them. It just ain't my personal bag.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Wow, I can actually log on to MDC today! It's been so cantankerous the past couple of days.

HoneyTree, I'm sitting here giggling about my right as a parent to be the one (or at least the first) to mess up my child's self-esteem.









Neela woke up in a good mood (so far) this morning, but has been very grumpy and soooo whiny/bossy the past couple days. I think molar coupled with growth spurt- she ate two pears, three eggs and a piece of toast with cashew butter for breakfast, then told me she was hungry and wanted a snack. Then proceeded to eat to wasa crackers with hummus, three mini muffins and a bunch of fruit. Hmmmm....


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

THREE eggs? Wow. Even I can't do that.
The absence of plug is holding here, thank goodness. It's so cool seeing my daughter without a piece of plastic stuck in her mouth. We've just lost River's dummy, too, and I think that may stay a permanent thing.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Mel, I am totally with you on the hunger crankies. Rowan was actually ok this morning, but the past couple days she's woken up, demanded boobies, then been TOTALLY cranky until I get some oatmeal into her (it's all she's wanted for breakfast for weeks... could be worse) then once the oatmeal kicks in, she's completely happy. The amount she eats varies, and yes, she usually wants snacks an hour later! This morning she ate relatively little oatmeal, but then immediately wanted some steamed chard. I'm like, vegetables for breakfast? OK!!! So she gulped down a bunch of chard (with liberal doses of butter and vinegar) and was happy.

Helen, congrats on the loss of the dummy! I hope River never expresses any opposition to being dummy-free









So... I think I'm going to wean Rowan after my mom's visit (she arrives tomorrow, here for 10 days) ends. I am SO not enjoying nursing anymore, I have very little milk, but it still feels like such a drain on my body. I am getting stronger and stronger signals from my body that we're done, I don't think I can ignore them any longer for the sake of convenient quick nap-times. I don't know if I can describe it adequately... I just know that if I keep nursing her, it would only be because of the peer pressure on MDC to do CLW. Which I don't happen to agree with, intellectually, in any case (and no, I do not want to get into a debate about that here! Just so y'all know where I'm coming from.) And while peer pressure has its uses, I think in this case it would end up making me resentful and I don't think Rowan would end up feeling very good nursing when it's obvious that I wasn't enjoying it. I'm not fooling myself that she'll be pleased, but I think a finite break, telling her that mummy's boobies are tired out, is better than a lingering dance of trying to redirect and occasionally capitulating and suffering through a nursing session in which she tries to get comfort and I try to get comfortable with neither of us accomplishing it. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, it'll be a couple of weeks, but TBH it feels good to have the end in sight. A few months ago a friend of mine had to wean her little boy - almost the same age as Rowan - for very valid medical reasons, and I was surprised because my first thoughts when she told me were envious ones. Like, why can't *I* have something horribly wrong with me so I have to wean? That's awful, I know... but those thoughts were there. I guess I'm not going to win the MDC mother-of-the-year award, but I probably lost that when I let Rowan watch Wallace & Grommit anyway.

Amy, did you go forward with your plans to wean Brynn? I'd be interested to hear your experiences... e-mail me?


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
THREE eggs? Wow. Even I can't do that.
The absence of plug is holding here, thank goodness. It's so cool seeing my daughter without a piece of plastic stuck in her mouth. We've just lost River's dummy, too, and I think that may stay a permanent thing.

I'm glad that she's not missing it too much









I can't eat three eggs in a sitting, either. Today all she wanted for lunch was a strawberry smoothie, until she got to the counter at the cafe and proudly asked for a beer smoothie







The young man working there told her he thought it sounded like a delicious idea.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Ha! Mel, Woody routinely tells the kids at my school that what he is drinking is not water, but beer.







It used to be wine, but the purse strings have been too tight for THAT beverage to be modeled lately!

Speaking of college fun, I took my students to play pool today at the university pool hall. Last week was our spring break, and I really wanted them to have something unusual and cool to re-bond over. It totally worked. EVERYBODY had fun, and mixed with everyone else, and encouraged each other. The drawback was having to change a poopy diaper on the floor of the bathroom of the pool hall, but I got creative with using various fabrics in the diaper bag as padding under the boy, so it all turned out...


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Yeah no kidding MDC has been cantankerous--I wrote a nice long post this morning and lost it.







:

Here I am in a very strange mood and can't figure out exactly why, sort of a combination of factors I think. I watched a very touching movie today, "Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont." It made me kind of sad.

I babysat a friend's 4 1/2 year old today, and that was kind of interesting--it's so weird because suddenly Ella is a much older kid than she was even a month ago. She has another new 4 year old friend too, and she seems to be doing quite fine and be incredibly happy to be playing with older girls. Her language has really taken off by leaps and bounds and she seems to be getting taller, and her skills in a number of areas are increasing, and so it is really kind of shocking sometimes because she just seems like such a kid now so often and not even a toddler-y toddler anymore, if that makes sense. All of a sudden her speech is so much clearer and easier to understand and she's talking in complete and correct sentences so much more of the time. So here are these two little girls playing in her room and I'm down the hall and I hear them talking and I literally heard a sentence and thought it was the older girl and then suddenly I hear a bit more and realized, "OMG--that's my daughter!" And it's weird too because suddenly Ella in the last month is desperate to be with "kids and friends" all. the. time. And tonight she was overtired and crying hysterically--"I want my Brynn!!! I want my Brynn!" She is also apparently lovesick over the one babysitter/friend who isn't returning my calls, and I am feeling so terrible about it. She is also in a very independent streak--like she's started going to her room, picking out her own clothes by herself, and getting herself dressed in the morning! And she is very particular about what she wants to wear, how she wants her hair, and she also has on at least one occasion sort of twirled coquettishly in front of the mirror and said, "I'm soooo pretty!"







Sometimes I swear she seems like a little teenager lately!!

In other unrelated news, my 80+ish neighbor has taken it upon herself to get me up to speed in the feminine arts, and she is taking me to the St. Joseph Orphanage Ladies Sewing Society quilting circle. I kid you not. I actually always have harbored a secret desire to learn how to quilt, which is tempered by the knowledge that I have very little patience and followthough for craft projects. (As the fact that I have one completely knit but unseamed newborn sized grasshopper green merino wool bootie and it's partner still on needles, FOR ELLA, will attest!!) But apparently I may be able to handle some degree of handwork if I am not responsible for the planning and completion of an entire project. We went on Tuesday night and taught me a few basics and put me to work on a practice quilting frame, and she was quite thrilled that I apparently am decent enough already that with a bit more practice next time she thinks that I can be promoted to a real quilt. She's also an accomplished knitter, so this is a good thing for me--the problem I have with knitting is that I can do okay as long as I'm going forward according to plan, but I lack troubleshooting or discernment skills, so if I screw up (which I often do) I am just stumped and usually end up making such a big mess that I am unable to continue without major expert assistance. Having a helpful and friendly expert next door will be handy if I ever pick up the needles again!!

Right now we're focusing all efforts on getting ourselves to India in about a month, so that's our major project right now. There are so many details to work out, it's daunting. Now that it's coming up though I'm starting to get a little excited about it--although I had wanted to go earlier when Ella was a little younger, now I'm thinking that she's actually at a better age/stage for the trip in some ways, because I think she and the IL's will really enjoy each other a lot. Especially the three older girl cousins, who have been anxiously waiting to meet her and induct her into their secret society!







Only heaven help me when we get back . . . she will be so completely spoiled by doting relatives and used to having constant company and entertainment that it will be a big adjustment to just being stuck with me all day again! I will have to hire a troupe of circus performers to come live in our house to ease the transition, lol!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Kavita, I am so jealous. I'd love to learn to quilt- LMK if you ever feel like bartering for handknits. I know what you mean about our babies growing up so fast- two years is such a short time in my life, how has she changed so much?
Spughy







If I can offer some advice, go to don't offer,don't refuse now, before your mum gets there. That way there's the added distraction and a break in Rowan's routine to get everything kick-started. I did that with Isaac and it worked well for us.


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i miss you guys









no time.. *sigh*

having a bit of hard time of it these days.. things will get better.

xoxoxoxoxoox fern


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Fern. You're really not the only one, but I know it's (they're) worth it.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

ARGH! I just wrote this really long post and lost it!

Ok, so to paraphrase, Hi everyone,







to Fern, I'm sick and feeling sorry for myself.







:


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

just popping on to say hi and







everyone! (and HI FERN!!! hang in there!)

am exhausted and sleepy after a failed attempt to get Finley not to nurse last night (in the middle of the night). i start to feel like i'm the only one still doing this. (not that that's why i want to ease off...i think cause i'm ovulating/fertile, it's extra-irritating.)

reading along, sending loving vibes to all, and to sleepy to form coherent thoughts, but hi!

and feel better spughy!
and kavita, how exciting to go to india! i'm so jealous.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi Fern- take care









spughy~ We cross posted before, then MDC was down for so long. I hope your visit with your mom is going well. And good luck with weaning! Even though we're ambling along the kind-of CLW path, I still have NO problems with you deciding to wean your almost 2 1/2 year old. You're a super duper mama in my eyes however you proceed









I read an interesting (though rather problematic in many regards) book recently called "A world of babies : imagined childcare guides for seven societies". It's written by anthropologists and presents "imagined" pregnancy and childcare guides from different cultures. I had to throw aside some of the obvious problems- like that the idea of a childcare guide is a very western one, but enjoyed reading them nonetheless and seeing/imagining how different childcare practices are influenced by their cultural and physical surroundings. There is a lot about weaning in there, too, and it varied a lot both in time and method of weaning.

I have more to write, but am fearing the lost post trend here...







to all


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Oh yeah, things have been crazy with the lost posts around here. Hopefully the downtime and improvements have fixed the problems--I know it loaded faster for me today, anyway!

Fern, hi! It's always good to hear from you, and I hope things get easier for you!

helen, I don't think you should count on anything wonderful in the quilting department from me!! Unless you are willing to wait 5-7 years for a quilted potholder or something!







Seriously, I think I take after my mom in the sewing department--although she could actually sew well, which I can't--as kids whenever one of our items needed a button sewn back on, or a rip sewed, or a hem changed, she would put it in her "mending pile". This mending pile was created with the best of intentions, but nothing ever actually returned, mended, from the mending pile--it was where clothes went to die until we finally had grown out of them anyway and then they didn't need mending anymore!!








But I may be interested in directly commissioning some knitted goodies from you one of these days if you're up for cold hard cash!









Mel, the book sounds interesting. What were the countries listed? I know it was interesting for me because my inlaws weren't really involved much at all since they are so far away, and my MIL is pretty non-interfering anyway, but toward the end of my pregnancy she had a little private talk with my husband about the importance of breastfeeding and that she hoped that I would be doing it, etc., . . . which seems to be the opposite of the kind of attitude many on here experience from their MILs and mothers of the same generation. DH was just like, Yeah, mom, you're preaching to the choir . . . !







We don't have any hassles in that regard because breastfeeding, cosleeping, holding the baby a lot (although it's not like the mom is always wearing/holding the baby--usually the baby is held by grandparents and other relatives too) not circing (at least for Hindus) and massaging the baby are the norms in that culture. And my parents, although they aren't as extreme about some things as we are (like my mom is petrified about the dangers of cosleeping) are still fairly AP for their time, etc. Even my dad who is certainly not a hippie by any means is very supportive of breastfeeding and has been very respectful and supportive of me and my sister. Who knows though, I may have a different story to tell about my ILs and their parenting views (and tendencies to interfere! lol!) at the end of June! I get the impression that people at least in urban areas wean quite a bit earlier, and I don't even know if the folks there know that Ella is still nursing. I am pretty sure that her Indian cousins were all breastfed but not quite as long.

barcelona, I know what you mean about feeling kind of alone regarding nursing at this age. But you're really not! Probably about half of the (AP parented) kids I know at Ella's age IRL are weaned by now but a bunch are still nursing, and it seems like we're about evenly split on this thread too, right? But there are quite a few people who still are nursing, and nursing at night sometimes too. I get annoyed with the nursing too sometimes, especially because it's not always comfortable and can be downright painful or irritating, and she is such a groper that it makes me insane. But for me it's not enough to quit definitively at this point. We have the other factor of the upcoming India trip and I think it will be a big health benefit if she gets diarrhea or vomiting and won't eat or drink other things--I'd probably be more inclined to discourage her a bit more otherwise. Sometimes I feel very grateful for it, like when it can abort a tantrum and smooth over a rough time for both of us. Sometimes I feel like nursing is to toddlerhood what make-up sex is to marriage--it can kind of get us back on the same side and kind of back on track when things are difficult. I have been doing my own version of "don't ask don't refuse" for a while now--only it's more like "sometimes offer, sometimes refuse". I really prefer not nursing her much in public anymore, not that I am ashamed of it, but she's just so big (as in tall and solid) that it's really usually impossible to nurse comfortably somewhere like a restaurant booth and I generally feel like she's just asking because she's bored or tired, so that is a signal to me that it's time to wrap things up and go home for a rest, more than feeling like she needs to actually nurse immediately. I think we all need to sort of gauge our own willingness to continue nursing and balance that with our kids needs to continue, and figure out the right time to wean from that. Ella would certainly not take easily to weaning right now, and it's not important enough to me to quit right now to go through the trauma and hassle. I figure that it will become less and less a part of her life as time goes on and her world expands, and so we're just hanging in for now. (And one advantage of nursing longer is that it prevents premenopausal breast cancer--7 years of total nursing reduces your risk to nothing. Which may provide some consolation in the middle of the night!







)

Oh, and don't be too jealous of the India trip. We may take a little side trip to Darjeeling to stay in hill station tea estates and look out over mist-shrouded tea gardens. That will be lovely and romantic and you should probably be jealous of that part.







Other than that, we'll be pretty much in a hot, humid slummy area of Calcutta! If you would like to replicate the experience, you can probably swallow a box of ex-lax with a jar of chili powder to replicate the predictable intestinal distress, and then drive to the worst urban area of LA on the hottest and most humid day of summer--add a lot more traffic and poverty and pollution and honking horns and a lot of people on bikes, motor scooters, on foot, in rickshaws, hanging from smoke-spewing busses and dangerously tilting lorries, and include a few cows wandering about, and that will sort of give you an idea of where we'll be spending our time!! lol! It is what is referred to as an Enriching Cultural Experience, but it isn't a particularly relaxing and fun vacation destination, as those things go.







But it does have its charm in its own way, I will admit.

spughy, I hope you start feeling better, from whatever is ailing you and making you feel sorry for youself!


----------



## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

So here's my question, Kavita - do I get to count my years of tandem nursing as double toward my total years breastfeeding? So far, I've breastfed Killy for almost 4 years and Ellie almost 2.5 years, so you could say I've been breastfeeding 6.5 years. However, I've really only been breastfeeding almost 4 years.


----------



## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Kavita, I just want to thank you for your words on breastfeeding. it does help me feel not as alone. And normally, almost all the time, I feel 100% at peace with where we're at...and am not really interested in weaning now, for the exact same reasons you expressed. (except that we're not going to India, so that's not a reason







)

At this point, he usually wants to nurse once in the middle of the day, when he gets tired, before bed, and in the middle of the night (quite a bit...) Sometimes, it's only at night, like today, he didn't ask to nurse at all, fell asleep in the car, and needed it for the transition into bed. But lately, I don't even remember waking up and nursing him, I just wake up and he's nursing, and I know it's been going on a while, as my back aches a bit, cause I'm a natural tummy sleeper. For some reason, last night it was really irritating me and irking me, I think the fertile time has something to do with it, and I was ready to run from the bed! But I just dealt with it and eventually fell asleep.

I keep hoping the nighttime nursing will decrease on its own, and just when I get discouraged, he goes a night without nursing. And every time I try to take nightweaning action, he freaks out and wakes up and the battle doesn't seem worth it.

I don't really have a point to this ramble, I'm just sharing.







Hopefully, in time, it'll work out. I might try sleeping on the futon mattress, next to our bed, tonight to see if he sleeps through without me. We'll see how that goes.

Am feeling awake and ready for the week!
And Kavita, your trip definitely sounds like quite the cultural experience. I'll admit, I didn't realize how intense it was...but I hope the charms outweigh the discomforts, and how enriching and lovely that'll be for Ella to have that in her life, and to play with and know her cousins.

Mel, that books sounds very interesting. I'm definitely going to check it out. Right up my alley









Thanks for listening. Hope everyone is having a great start to the week.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
So here's my question, Kavita - do I get to count my years of tandem nursing as double toward my total years breastfeeding? So far, I've breastfed Killy for almost 4 years and Ellie almost 2.5 years, so you could say I've been breastfeeding 6.5 years. However, I've really only been breastfeeding almost 4 years.









Hmmm, not sure about that. I think part of the reason that this is true is that nursing lowers your estrogen levels and prevents menstrual cycling--like pregnancy does, in terms of preventing cycling and the effects of menstrual cycles on your estrogen and the effects of estrogen on breast changes/breast cancer. So I'm not sure how they really calculate that! (for example nuns--and lesbians--have higher rates of breast cancer as a group, because of not being pregnant/nursing, there is nothing to ameliorate the effects of estrogen for a while.) But that brings up the question--how did they calculate this? For example, I started cycling at 8 months postpartum. So would it be better to have 4 kids and breastfeed them each for two years, or have 2 and nurse them each for 4 years? Probably it's better to have more kids, since you also get the effects of pregnancy on estrogen more months total too . . . .

So that's a longwinded way of saying, I have no idea!! But in my book, you get extra credit for doing two at once so you can count it as 6.5 years!
















And barcelona, I hope you get some sleep and no night-marathons tonight!! I can't sleep when she nurses much anymore, since she has the pointiest canines and tends to not just let go when she's done, but roll over while still clamped down . . . so I pretty much have to stay awake whenever I nurse her in order to retain my nipples! But she does most of her nursing at bedtime and in the morning, and before naps. But yeah, you're in good company! And I too tend to sometimes compare us (me, Ella, our family, etc.) to others, but I really try not to do that at least not in a way that's critical of either us or others, because we all have our own strengths and challenges, so we may have one area that we're struggling with but another that is easy for us that is a real problem for someone else.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I am finally starting to feel like a human again. I worked my booty off in my garden today and it felt sooo good to be alive and in the fresh air and sunshine. My muscles are angry with me this evening but I don't care. This last week was hell, I deserve a little slice of heaven.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD.

Kavita, it's funny you should say that- I'm in the process of getting an etsy store up and running and I was planning on putting a custom handknit slot on there. It's good to know there might be interest.


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## gingerstar (Jun 10, 2005)

More







s for you, DiD. I bet that felt good.

And







to Fern, too.

Helen, let us know when you are up and running! That is terrific. And I just love the pic of River in your blog - I just want to scoop him up and munch him - go nom nom nom on his sweet round cheeks and smell his sweet baby smell and feel him wiggle! I can't imagine how you do anything else! And my sister quilts, beautifully - I am sure she would love to come do a personal class, if you wanted her to stop by...from Wisconsin.









Kavita, thanks for sharing that encouraging tidbit - I guess I have no premenopausal worries, then, since I have been breastfeeding since 1998, with only a few months break....

barcelona, hope you had a great night's sleep! I hear you on the night nursing; it is hard to feel rested when you've been providing meals! And don't feel alone on the nursing - I know it is rare to meet a nursing toddler these days, but you might not know it when you do - very few people knew how long my girls nursed, especially once we reached only nursing to sleep at night. I think another mom I know (on here, maybe?) had good luck sleeping elsewhere as a way to nightwean, and it went smoothly.

QoC, bravo on all your gardening work! I am envious... but hey, I have daffodils blooming! So it is a start... but we have another full month until our last frost, so I have to wait a bit.

Ok, I have a little one bringing me a wooden spoon asking to bake - gotta run. That reminds me though - I just wanted to share a terrible thing, for other baking mamas - I thought Ella had learned not to touch things on the stove, but she was standing on a chair at the stove as I took a pan to the sink, having turned off the flame of course, but never thought that she might touch the hot grate!







She is ok, a red mark on the back of her hand, but much mommy guilt. It never happened before, with her or my others, it just never crossed my mind. I guess she thought if the pan was gone, the flame was gone, then it was ok...


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Mel, the book sounds interesting. What were the countries listed?

Cut and pasted from a review found in the journal of human lactation:
The book includes descriptions of seven cultures,
past and present: American Puritans; Beng (Ivory
Coast, West Africa); Bali (Indonesia); Muslim Turks;
Warlpiri (Aboriginal, Australia); Fulani(WestAfrica);
Ifaluk (Micronesia).

Your trip should be interesting, at least. And your description of how to replicate the Calcutta experience is cracking me up!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

fern & spughy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barcelona* 
am exhausted and sleepy after a failed attempt to get Finley not to nurse last night (in the middle of the night). i start to feel like i'm the only one still doing this.

We are currently in this stage too. No fun and sleep just isn't happening for me. Any time I move (read: breathe too deeply) Keagan starts flailing. Ugh.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Sometimes I feel like nursing is to toddlerhood what make-up sex is to marriage--









but







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Hmmm, not sure about that. I think part of the reason that this is true is that nursing lowers your estrogen levels and prevents menstrual cycling--like pregnancy does, in terms of preventing cycling and the effects of menstrual cycles on your estrogen and the effects of estrogen on breast changes/breast cancer. So I'm not sure how they really calculate that! (*for example nuns--and lesbians--have higher rates of breast cancer as a group, because of not being pregnant/nursing, there is nothing to ameliorate the effects of estrogen for a while*.)

Shouldn't that really read women who have never been pregnant/given birth/breastfed? Being a nun or lesbian really doesn't mean you will never have a child or breastfeed







:


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 

Shouldn't that really read women who have never been pregnant/given birth/breastfed? Being a nun or lesbian really doesn't mean you will never have a child or breastfeed







:

Sigh . . . I know, I know. I rewrote that several times and it still didn't come out right. I left it in there because I *think* that it still holds true statistically of lesbians _as a whole group_, when compared to straight women as a whole group, and that it's related to a lower rate of childbearing in the population as a whole, although individual lesbians certainly do have children and breastfeed. For example--one factor may be that a huge number of children born to heterosexually married couples is the US are estimated to be from unintended pregnancies. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to get accidentally pregnant through lesbian sex! So although lesbian couples can choose to have children, you are cutting out those "suprise" pregnancies, and you are also cutting out populations whose members have lots and lots of kids due to religious/cultural beliefs and/or restrictions on birth control (strict Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, etc.) I know lots of those families who have 6-10 kids, whereas I don't think I have personally met any lesbians who have more than 2 or 3 kids. Also, if you pair up two women it's going to change things statistically--let's say a heterosexual couple has two kids, and a lesbian couple has two kids. (Both biologically.) It's going to be two pregnancies per one woman for the heterosexual couple, whereas for the lesbian couple, it's going to be either one partner having two babies or each partner having one baby, but either way, since there are two women in the couple it reduces the number of pregnancies, *per woman*, to half of the rate of the hetero couple (ie, one pregnancy per woman vs. two for the het woman.) Of course, none of this takes into account the fact that there is a legally male FTM transgendered person with surgically removed breasts who is pregnant and in a marriage (with a lesbian/former lesbian if she's married to a legal man who was her lesbian partner before transitioning legally/medically? how do we categorize that?) who had two kids herself in a heterosexual marriage. So who knows, all bets may be off at this point these days as far as sex, gender, and sexuality are concerned! Perhaps we're at a juncture in our society where the old definitions just don't work so well, assuming they ever did.

(But I'm definitely standing by the assertion about nuns--because I'm pretty sure that if you get pregnant and have a kid that sort of effectively makes you an ex-nun, unless my understanding of Christianity is totally off-base!! But I mean no offense to lesbians, or nuns--OR lesbian nuns either!







)


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Except the buddist nuns, who I don't think have restrictions on having children (though I may be wrong- I've mostly only met an older buddist nun, who had finished childbearing/childrearing prior to becoming a nun).

The world is very much a complicated place, and I love it for it.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Of course, none of this takes into account the fact that there is a legally male FTM transgendered person with surgically removed breasts who is pregnant and in a marriage (with a lesbian/former lesbian if she's married to a legal man who was her lesbian partner before transitioning legally/medically? how do we categorize that?) who had two kids herself in a heterosexual marriage. So who knows, all bets may be off at this point these days as far as sex, gender, and sexuality are concerned! Perhaps we're at a juncture in our society where the old definitions just don't work so well, assuming they ever did.

(But I'm definitely standing by the assertion about nuns--because I'm pretty sure that if you get pregnant and have a kid that sort of effectively makes you an ex-nun, unless my understanding of Christianity is totally off-base!! But I mean no offense to lesbians, or nuns--OR lesbian nuns either!







)

No offense taken.








FWIW though there are for sure nuns who have been pregnant due to men who abused a situation of power. Oh, and while the gentleman in Oregon who is FTM (and currently pregnant) has been quite public about his pregnancy, he is not the first to experience pregnancy as a male. But I digress. I do think that the link to breastfeeding and cancer incidence rate is quite interesting!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I love you girls, you know that?

Skye is shocking me with her girliness- I have no idea where she gets it from. It started raining when we were out and she looked up and gasped "oh no! My hair!!!!" Because, you know, god forbid she looks like anything other than a dandelion







:


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

: Oh, Helen! Skye is a perfect little dandelion. That is so cute! Do you have any recent pics of her?

And Susannah and Kavita, thank you, bless both of you, for having such a sane and civil discussion. It made my day, truly. And to add to it, I remember reading somewhere that the best breast cancer defense, reproductively, was to have children before the age of 31... I suspect, though, that age is a factor of statistically how much breastfeeding you can do between then and ceasing reproductive efforts.

My illness is not severe, merely the same virus that plagued my DH for the past 2 weeks - but I hit it with some ColdFX and an overdose of some multivitamin/zinc/echinacea thing and it seems to be receeding more rapidly in me than it did in him. I have a mild sore throat today but I'm feeling more chipper. It sucked on saturday though, I had a bad fever but it was the night my mom and I had planned to do our mother/daughter night out, with dinner out and then the theatre... I struggled through and even managed to stay awake for most of the performance, but it wasn't as fun as it should have been









Anyhoo, gotta go as the child will awake soon. Have a lovely evening, all!


----------



## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi. Duh...where have I been








Our dd was born Nov 4 2005 and I have been really enjoying reading this thread and I cannot believe I missed it!

Anyway, I won't go on and on right now, but we are having the time of our lives with our little girl and we're exausted too, of course so I can relate to the night nursing challenges. My partner and I decided a long time ago to not be too agressive with night weaning...even though it has been hard at times! but ya know, for us, the gentle approach is working....it's taking a while but Stella sleeps pretty consistantly for 7-8 hour stretches now and THAT has changed my life!!!! She still nurses a ton during the day ( and occationally at night) but for the most part, I still enjoy it.

We're almost potty trained with one HUGE exception....she is terrified to poop and holds it in. That has NOT been fun. We have a naturopath and she prescribed flower essences and so far we're making some progress. If anyone else is having this challenge, please feel free to tell me ALL about it!!

Anyway....life is wonderful with our November scorpio.....she talks like crazy and cracks us up at least a thousand times a day!!! She has such an amazing, fun, expressive personality...which is a huge relief to me because I was extremely shy as a child! She's so much fun!

Happy Spring to you all and I hope I can hang out with you Nov 05 mama's!!

oh and by the way....Buddhist nuns CAN have babies and get married etc etc....
my chiropractor is not only a Buddhist Nun but she's a lesbian too


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Hey Andi







Nice to meet you. Skye reverted straight back into nappies, but Isaac, my second, was absolutely terrified of poo, especially at playgroup. It's a maturity thing. One thing that did help, though, was explaining the digestive process slowly and gradually- wee is obviously related to drinking, but poo is harder. We tried to talk about this with Skye yesterday and apparently food doesn't go in her tummy. It goes in her mouth, and then in her ear







: Just a thought.

Oh, some pictures


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Beautiful pictures, Helen!

Welcome, andimama!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 
No offense taken.








FWIW though there are for sure nuns who have been pregnant due to men who abused a situation of power. Oh, and while the gentleman in Oregon who is FTM (and currently pregnant) has been quite public about his pregnancy, he is not the first to experience pregnancy as a male. But I digress. I do think that the link to breastfeeding and cancer incidence rate is quite interesting!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming







:

Hmm, that's true too (about the pregnant nuns due to abuse of power.) I wonder what happens to them?

I've heard that too about the person in Or, and in some earlier version I was saying " . . . currently in People magazine" --not too many people in similar situations have gone public and made national headlines!

That whole thing has been kind of bugging me--not so much the couple but the media sensationalism about it that is treating the situation like it's some kind of circus act. I mean, yes, "Pregnant Man!" is technically true, but it sort of obscures the fact that this person is able to carry a baby because he was born a woman and has the female reproductive equipment. As far as I'm concerned he may be socially and legally and emotionally male and that's fine, but if he has a uterus and fallopian tubes and a vagina because he was born a woman then it's not exactly the same as if, say, I got my DH knocked up.







(Now *that* would merit the cover of People magazine.







) I guess my point is that men who were born men still can't carry babies, and until they do, any men who in fact can and do are sort of getting by on a technicality, and it kind of almost doesn't count, so what's the big damn deal? I mean, sure, it's an atypical family arrangement and it questions the basic assumptions about how we define the concepts of "male" and "female", but it's not exactly the news story of the century.

And of course, I am such a boob fanatic that *my* major concern was whether someone is going to breastfeed the kid or just go straight to bottles . . . . So of course I'm reading that he had his breasts surgically removed, but it seems to me that since he has nipples that might have been pretty much the same as a pretty hard-core breast reduction, and I was wondering how much damage was done to the ducts/duct tissues and whether he would still be able to nurse at least partially, or maybe since she's planning to be the mother she can induce lactation and nurse? Yeah, I have too little intellectual stimulation in my life right now . . . .


----------



## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
And of course, I am such a boob fanatic that *my* major concern was whether someone is going to breastfeed the kid or just go straight to bottles . . . . So of course I'm reading that he had his breasts surgically removed, but it seems to me that since he has nipples that might have been pretty much the same as a pretty hard-core breast reduction, and I was wondering how much damage was done to the ducts/duct tissues and whether he would still be able to nurse at least partially, or maybe since she's planning to be the mother she can induce lactation and nurse? Yeah, I have too little intellectual stimulation in my life right now . . . .









Maybe his wife will breastfeed the baby?

Welcome, Andi, and thanks for joining us. We may be freaks, but we're friendly









I finally uploaded all 50-something of the day in the life series of photos I did of Neela last month. There linked from her blog It's not a particularly thrilling day, but nice quieter than usual day.


----------



## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
And Susannah and Kavita, thank you, bless both of you, for having such a sane and civil discussion. It made my day, truly. And to add to it, I remember reading somewhere that the best breast cancer defense, reproductively, was to have children before the age of 31... I suspect, though, that age is a factor of statistically how much breastfeeding you can do between then and ceasing reproductive efforts.

I'm glad I had a hand in helping make your day a little better







And so happy to hear you are feeling a bit more lively!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andimama* 
oh and by the way....Buddhist nuns CAN have babies and get married etc etc....
my chiropractor is not only a Buddhist Nun but she's a lesbian too

















and interesting on the Buddhist nuns, babies, marriage thing!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
We tried to talk about this with Skye yesterday and apparently food doesn't go in her tummy. It goes in her mouth, and then in her ear







: Just a thought.

I wonder sometimes where kids come up with things. Keagan announced yesterday while we were on a walk that cows live in trees.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
And of course, I am such a boob fanatic that *my* major concern was whether someone is going to breastfeed the kid or just go straight to bottles . . . . So of course I'm reading that he had his breasts surgically removed, but it seems to me that since he has nipples that might have been pretty much the same as a pretty hard-core breast reduction, and I was wondering how much damage was done to the ducts/duct tissues and whether he would still be able to nurse at least partially, or maybe since she's planning to be the mother she can induce lactation and nurse? Yeah, I have too little intellectual stimulation in my life right now . . . .









I also have wondered about the BFing thing.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good mei tai for me? Must come in pretty colours









Cute photos, Mel. Sometimes it feels like Skye spends half her life sitting on the kitchen worktop, I'm glad we're not the only ones


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good mei tai for me? Must come in pretty colours









Babyhawk. http://www.babyhawk.com/


----------



## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

I finally got some answers to my questions about my miscarriage, hemmorhage and the fate of a future pregnancy. But not from the midwife I was seeing for this pregnancy. Not from the doctor who treated me in the hospital. From the midwife I saw for Winter's pregnancy. We talked for over an hour on the phone today. She called me back 2 hours after I called her. My former midwife hasn't called me in over a week and I've called her 4 times!
Anyway, so guess who I'll be hiring for my next baby? She offered to do some lab work and referred me to a naturopath for a thyroid panel and wants me to see an acupuncturist. She is really on board with helping me heal my body and prepare for a new, healthy pregnancy. I'm basically on the right track now, but my supplement regimine needs a bit of tweaking. I'll go in to have her check my hematocrit and hemoglobin in 3 months and if it's good then we'll be cleared to try for another baby. She wants us to wait at least 3 months, because she feels very certain that I had become anemic (or stayed that way after Suriya's birth) and that it either contributed to or caused my miscarriage and subsequent hemmorhage, and it will give me a good long time to get my red blood cell count and iron levels up to a good, safe place for a healthy baby.
That's all I wanted. Just for someone to discuss these things with me, someone who knows what they're talking about. Someone to address my fears and tell me what I can do to help prevent this from ever happening again. Also, she carries metheregrine, cytotec and pitocin and can start an IV if needed so I really feel like she has a lot of good things on hand to keep me from bleeding too much if I do hemmorhage postpartum again. I am feeling so much better now. So, so much. I was so afraid to even dare to dream about another baby with all of these unanswered questions and fears. Jim and I both feel confident that what we've decided to do is right and safe.

It was a good day.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, can I offer you something? If statistically 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage then maybe there wasn't anything wrong with you. Maybe this is just the way that Willow was meant to be.







I know it really hurts, but nobody, not a midwife, not the almighty, can give you the guarantees that you're looking for. I know it's terrifying, but that's just the way it is.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Helen, I've always heard much higher than 20%. One out of three pregnancies end in miscarriage is what I had always read, but recently I read that some doctors think that 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage before the woman has even missed her period so many/most of those go unnoticed. Its a scary subject! DiD, I'm happy that you are feeling better about things, but please don't feel like the miscarriage was through a fault in you or your body.









Finally there's some pretty weather here again! It was beautiful last week, then rainy and chilly all weekend, and now its back to being beautiful - but its supposed to be rainy all weekend again. Its not fair! I have a huge new flower garden all dug out and I soooo want to start planting, but its still getting into the 30s at night here so I better wait a bit longer. I think I'm going to keep digging new beds until I can start planting if I don't reign myself in soon!


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good mei tai for me? Must come in pretty colours









http://dreamcarriers.com/
Andrea is really sweet and is an MDC mom to boot!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
I finally got some answers to my questions about my miscarriage, hemmorhage and the fate of a future pregnancy. But not from the midwife I was seeing for this pregnancy. Not from the doctor who treated me in the hospital. From the midwife I saw for Winter's pregnancy. We talked for over an hour on the phone today. She called me back 2 hours after I called her. My former midwife hasn't called me in over a week and I've called her 4 times!
Anyway, so guess who I'll be hiring for my next baby? She offered to do some lab work and referred me to a naturopath for a thyroid panel and wants me to see an acupuncturist. She is really on board with helping me heal my body and prepare for a new, healthy pregnancy. I'm basically on the right track now, but my supplement regimine needs a bit of tweaking. I'll go in to have her check my hematocrit and hemoglobin in 3 months and if it's good then we'll be cleared to try for another baby. She wants us to wait at least 3 months, because she feels very certain that I had become anemic (or stayed that way after Suriya's birth) and that it either contributed to or caused my miscarriage and subsequent hemmorhage, and it will give me a good long time to get my red blood cell count and iron levels up to a good, safe place for a healthy baby.
That's all I wanted. Just for someone to discuss these things with me, someone who knows what they're talking about. Someone to address my fears and tell me what I can do to help prevent this from ever happening again. Also, she carries metheregrine, cytotec and pitocin and can start an IV if needed so I really feel like she has a lot of good things on hand to keep me from bleeding too much if I do hemmorhage postpartum again. I am feeling so much better now. So, so much. I was so afraid to even dare to dream about another baby with all of these unanswered questions and fears. Jim and I both feel confident that what we've decided to do is right and safe.

It was a good day.

Lydia, I'm glad that you feel you have got someone who will help you try and figure things out. Out of curiosity - did you use the same MW for Winter's and Suriya's births?


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
DiD, can I offer you something? If statistically 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage then maybe there wasn't anything wrong with you. Maybe this is just the way that Willow was meant to be.







I know it really hurts, but nobody, not a midwife, not the almighty, can give you the guarantees that you're looking for. I know it's terrifying, but that's just the way it is.









I know, Helen. I know there very well may have been no reason at all for the loss of my baby other than it was just statistics catching up with me. I know I could lose another baby. I'm not asking for guarantees, I just want to give the next baby a better chance. The biggest thing I wondered and worried about was the hemmorhage. Having one is an anomaly. Having two is a pattern. I guess I didn't word my post clearly enough, but anyway my biggest worry about having another baby was that I would hemmorhage again and most of my talk with her was about preventing another hemmorhage but being prepared in case it did happen again. And just having someone to address my fears and assure me that we could deal with it effectively afterwards was very healing. We both felt really conflicted about whether we should TTC again or not considering the risk of hemmorhage but we're now at a point after this discussion that we feel at peace with our decision to try again in a few months.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
Helen, I've always heard much higher than 20%. One out of three pregnancies end in miscarriage is what I had always read, but recently I read that some doctors think that 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage before the woman has even missed her period so many/most of those go unnoticed. Its a scary subject! DiD, I'm happy that you are feeling better about things, but please don't feel like the miscarriage was through a fault in you or your body.









I do feel like, even if being anemic didn't cause the miscarriage, this whole situation has been a wake-up call from the universe that I need to take better care of myself. I am being very vigilant about my health now and I am going to stop ignoring my needs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Susannah M* 
Lydia, I'm glad that you feel you have got someone who will help you try and figure things out. Out of curiosity - did you use the same MW for Winter's and Suriya's births?

No I didn't and this experience has really solidified for me which midwife is the right fit for me. I'll happily share more info with you via PM if you want to know specifically who and why, but I don't want to say much more on the open board.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I get you, Lydia. One of my best friends IRL haemorrhaged after both her births and is currently on the fence about trying for a third or not. No clotting disorders or anaemia, it just happened. Did you have actively managed third stages with your homebirths, btw?


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I get you, Lydia. One of my best friends IRL haemorrhaged after both her births and is currently on the fence about trying for a third or not. No clotting disorders or anaemia, it just happened. Did you have actively managed third stages with your homebirths, btw?

With Winter's birth, I stood up and out my placenta fell and I bled a normal amount. With Suriya's birth, her placenta took over an hour to come out, with pushing on the birth stool and then later I asked for cord traction when I simply did not have the strength to push it out and once it finally was out, clots and massive amounts of blood had built up behind it. I started to notice feeling very weak and out of breath before they ever started the cord traction, so I must have hemmorhaged starting from right after the placenta detached. With the miscarriage there was no placenta and I started hemmorhaging right after the baby came out.


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Hmm, that's true too (about the pregnant nuns due to abuse of power.) I wonder what happens to them?

I've heard that too about the person in Or, and in some earlier version I was saying " . . . currently in People magazine" --not too many people in similar situations have gone public and made national headlines!

That whole thing has been kind of bugging me--not so much the couple but the media sensationalism about it that is treating the situation like it's some kind of circus act. I mean, yes, "Pregnant Man!" is technically true, but it sort of obscures the fact that this person is able to carry a baby because he was born a woman and has the female reproductive equipment. As far as I'm concerned he may be socially and legally and emotionally male and that's fine, but if he has a uterus and fallopian tubes and a vagina because he was born a woman then it's not exactly the same as if, say, I got my DH knocked up.







(Now *that* would merit the cover of People magazine.







) I guess my point is that men who were born men still can't carry babies, and until they do, any men who in fact can and do are sort of getting by on a technicality, and it kind of almost doesn't count, so what's the big damn deal? I mean, sure, it's an atypical family arrangement and it questions the basic assumptions about how we define the concepts of "male" and "female", but it's not exactly the news story of the century.

And of course, I am such a boob fanatic that *my* major concern was whether someone is going to breastfeed the kid or just go straight to bottles . . . . So of course I'm reading that he had his breasts surgically removed, but it seems to me that since he has nipples that might have been pretty much the same as a pretty hard-core breast reduction, and I was wondering how much damage was done to the ducts/duct tissues and whether he would still be able to nurse at least partially, or maybe since she's planning to be the mother she can induce lactation and nurse? Yeah, I have too little intellectual stimulation in my life right now . . . .









whoops...i didn't mean to quote this WHOLE message! how do you quote only part of a message, anyway??
well i agree that the whole media craze about the "pregnant man" is a bit disturbing....i mean it could've been done with much more class and maybe could have changed a lot of ignorant misinformed people out there. instead, the media treated the situation like these people were from another planet....female to male tranies having babies is actually not as uncommon as one might think! i don't even know the whole story....did anyone see them on oprah?
but anyway....the first thing i thought of too was "can he breastfeed???" !!!

speaking of breastfeed....bedtime's soon and that includes A TON of "nummies"!!
peace!


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Mel, Flapjack, your babies are so adorable.









I'm a little aflutter today. I'm having a hard time with one of my students, and more particularly with this student's parents, and because earlier this year, this student put Woody in some unsafe situations and I expressed concerns, my present professional assessments are being couched in terms of an assumed conflict of interest, i.e. a fearful mother. I feel demoralized and sad. And like always, it's not everyone who thinks that, I'm sure, but once the doubt is set, the mark is hard to ignore...







I wonder if our children will ever be truly welcomed in the workplace instead of forbidden or just tolerated. My little guy has served as the scapegoat for at least four difficult situations in the almost two years I've been there, and honestly it makes me want to just stay home.









Susannah, the Dream Carriers are nice! I'm hoping to sew myself a new mei tai here pretty soon, and there are a lot of nice features packed into that design...

We're going camping this weekend! I'm excited. It's to a park I've never been to before, and I've been on two really great hikes in the past week, so I have high hopes.

Hi, Andi! I did see the couple on Oprah--it was when I was down visiting my mom, and that is totally when I get caught up on my trash TV (no offense to Oprah fans, but truly that wasn't one of her more profound episodes). The big issues were carefully skirted, and breastfeeding didn't come up at all, though the crib in the baby's room was prominently featured, so I got the impression they weren't an all-and-all AP couple.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, the specific question I was actually asking was whether you were given pitocin as a routine preventative with Suriya's birth







: That is another option available to you.
Theresa, I totally get what you mean. One of the reasons my mum retired, in the end, was politics and people making assumptions about what she felt as a woman and a working mother. I think teaching, in particular, can actually be quite a hostile environment for parents and I have great respect for your school for enabling Woody to be there in the first place. LMK if you want to vent.


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

Hi mamas. First, Helen, let me apologize for getting my panties in a wad last week. I was totally over-reacting based on my own sh*t.









DiD, I was so sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I know how hard that can be, especially when you keep asking yourself "WHY!?" Like the other mamas said, sometimes there are no answers; I am glad you have found some peace with it though.

Fern, I am sorry to hear that you are having a hard time, too, Mama. Wouldn't it be nice if we all lived in the same village and could just help each other out as needed? I'm sending you a hug, though.









Teresa, that's a big bummer about how things have turned out with your school and Woody. I hope their is some happy resolution to it for you.

Spughy, sorry you haven't been feeling well. Hope you are on the mend now! How was your mom's visit? Are you still planning to go ahead with the weaning?

And Andi - welcome to the group!

For me...this has been one of the hardest months in a very long time. I feel like the dam has burst and all of the stuff I've been holding back is almost pulling me under: not totally happy with where we live/missing our old life back in Ohio, anger at my mom (for everything, not just the issue with my grandmother's passing), majorly mixed feelings (including fear) about having another baby at some point, exhaustion at being a SAHM with no help....blah blah blah. And I actually discovered amidst all of this that I have fibromylagia, which is something of a relief after years and years of chronic fatigue and chronic leg pain, but also kind of a bummer because there is no clear-cut way to treat it. My doctor said his method of treating fibro is to prescribe antidepressants - I don't think that is the right course for me, so I am going to be seeing an alternative practictioner early next month; he specializes in fibro. And this might sound kind of out there, but I'm also going to see a medical intuitive/holistic healer next week and I have a lot of faith that these two people will be able to guide me on this healing journey!

And through all of this, I've figured out that there are quite a few lifestyle changes I need to make, such as making time every day to exercise, giving myself permission to not be perfect (or expecting myself to be), saying no to things that are too draining, etc. And...admitting to myself that I am actually *not* happy about some things. That is a hard one.

Well Brynn wants me to "stop typing!" so I'd better go. Hope you all get to enjoy some sunshine today.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Amy - your post brought two things to mind. (1) Since you mentioned you're seeing an intuitive/holistic practitioner, I'll share that Sylvia Browne says that a high protein diet is the way to treat fibromyalgia (I know a lot of people don't like her, but I think some of her books are really powerful). and (2) my mom sent me this link yesterday and its a great (short) article about letting go of the illusion that we can have our lives together 100%, its just not possible!

OMG, I sunburned my back yesterday and its soooo sore! Working in the yard won't be put on hold, though! I've already set out several stepping stones today (dug them in so hopefully I'll be able to mow over them soon), and I have a few other plans. Yay, yay, yay!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Amy,







s. Fibromyalgia is tough - I have a friend who has it. (Which reminds me, I should call her...) But you are strong too. And being happy with 100% of your life has always seemed a little wrong to me, frankly!







Like, if that ever happens, then the universe is going to dump a whopper on you.

QofC - lucky you, sunburned! We had ONE day of real spring and now it's cold again. Stupid La Nina thing. My peas are coming up and my neighbour just told me it's supposed to SNOW this weekend. WTF???? I know you guys all think that in Canada it just snows all the time but really, it doesn't - and snow at this time of year is beyond crazy.

Helen, Skye is looking SO much like a little blonde you! She is adorable. And Mel, Neela sounds like so much fun. I wish you guys lived near here, I think Neela and Rowan would be good pals.

My mom's still here and the visit is going so much better this time! Rowan's starting to enjoy Grannie, especially since I've had this wretched sore throat (still have it) so I've been delegating reading aloud duties to Grannie. But Rowan's started asking "does Grannie want to do that?" anytime I suggest something and taking Grannie's hand when she goes down stairs and stuff, so that's all good. And no freakouts at shower time, either!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Just a "quickie" post to say hi--I have a babysitter here playing with Ella and I'm just checking messages, etc. while plotting my next move.

I have a huge boatload of things to do to get ready for our trip . . . we just got tickets confirmed and are buying them. I have less than a month. It's going to be tough because I feel pressured to think of all these contingencies, and be really prepared for the travel part especially. The trip there is quite possibly going to be kind of grueling--it's 27 hours of airplane and airports, and that gets us to Singapore for a couple of days and then it's 5 more hours in flight to get to Kolkata. So how to manage the wild child with all that, and keep myself from getting sick, that's my biggest concern. I got so motion sick the last time--not throwing up, but by the time we landed in Singapore I was feverish, dizzy as hell, and queasy and just felt terrible. That tends to happen to me on long flights. Any advice on this--holistic or otherwise--is welcome. I am thinking about giving the dr. a call and seeing what she has to say about it. However, we are flying Singapore airlines, which is costing us a little more, but will be so worth it--their food and service is soooo good, they give you a seriously gourmet meal like every few hours and their flight attendants are just so gracious and pleasant and they have all kinds of movies and programs that you can select at your seat (each seat has its own screen and remote) and hopefully there will be something that Ella will like watching! And they have special toddler meals that you can preorder apparently according to DH.









And then we called last night to tell MIL what the dates are, and she was kind of distressed because it's two weeks later than we had originally intended, and she was like, why so late??! It's going to be so hot here!!! And then she was a little naggy about making a budget and sticking to it in terms of buying gifts for the family there . . . which in one way I appreciate, but I can handle my own budget, that's why I'm calling a freaking month in advance to see what people there want so I will have a little time to shop around and not just have to get whatever at the last minute.







: But then again, she's just looking out for our best interests and she's really excited that we're coming and that she's finally going to get to meet her grandchild.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
DiD, the specific question I was actually asking was whether you were given pitocin as a routine preventative with Suriya's birth







: That is another option available to you.

I didn't have it at Suriya's birth, or any of my births actually but my midwife carries it, along with a few other things for bleeding, so we have it available if we need it. We had no reason to suspect I'd hemmorhage after Suriya's birth because that was the first time it ever happened so that's why we didn't use it then.

Okay, so new topic. I have to tell you all about the hilarious things Winter is saying. I just love hearing his voice. He now says "Hey mama!" and then asks for "sumpin to grink" or a clean shirt (the boy is obsessed with having a clean, dry shirt) or whatever he wants. I love the funny way he pronounces things.

He has decided that my mom, who has been called Nana by all of her grandchildren, is Nanny to him and my dad who is normally called Papa, is Pappy. I thought that was so freaking cute. We were over there last night and kept saying "Hey Nanny! Come look!" or "Hey Pappy! I got a crayon!" or whatever. Two is a hard age, but he just lights up the room with his joy and amazement at everything. I love this age. I just wish he'd stop getting into the refrigerator.


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Hello Ladies...

Thanks for all your hello's and for welcoming me into the group!
It sounds like a lot of you are going through some challenging times....I wish yummy, healing, happy vibes to you all!!
And we are definitely no stranges to stress around here...
My partner was diagnosed with breast cancer at the end of the summer so it has been the longest fall/winter of our lives! never thought we'd be in this boat... we found the tumor very early and it was small so there are a lot of things to be thankful for...she's incredibly strong and healthy and will be fine...but all that said, it has truly shaken things up. and you know, it has been both scary and totally amazing all at once! it has made us realize how precious life is...i know that's so cliche but really when you're faced with something like this, the sh*t really hits the fan! Why when we are challenged to survive, do we finally give ourself permission to truly live?
someone else said that...i think kris carr but it's embedded into my mind!

so , needless to say , it has been hard at times. like i have needs...i want a yoga practice again, i'd love to just get out there for a run but lisa's needs have to come first...and she's doing some fantastic stuff foe herself...yoga,acupucture, reiki, meditaion and she has been doing NIA classes too... www.nianow.com ... so i get a but grumpy sometimes that i can't do anything...boohoo...i HATE feeling that way!!

anway, spring is here...our garden is ready for planting and our dd stella lights up our lives like crazy!!! i must share this new thing she does...
she has been REALLY into fantasy play and make believe and she loves puppets...well it turns out i can get her to cooperate with just about ANYTHING if i put barkley on (that's her fav) and pretend to talk for it!! it's hilarious and i know it won't last long so we're having fun with it!! today i told stella that barkley had to go use the potty and she said "barkley can't use the potty, he doesn't have a bum." pretty funny...

peace to you all...







:


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Andi, Stella sounds so delightful!

Amy~ Big hugs and healing vibes. I hope you find a course of treatment or "management" that works for you. And I appreciate your honesty about not being entirely happy about your move and where you're living. I spent the first year after our move to Oregon secretly fantasizing about escaping.

Kavita, good luck with the trip planning.

DID~ I may not be remembering correctly, but weren't you kind of upset with your midwife from Winter's birth from how she "managed" pushing? Have you guys talked about this issue? Winter sounds like so much fun, BTW!

Spughy~ I'm almost certain that we'll be moving closer to you soon, so we can hopefully get the girls together again sometime. We're 90+% certain that we're BC bound, but still not sure exactly where.

And can everyone send out "hire Mel" vibes to the universe? I've applied for four jobs this week.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Mel, I am praying that the perfect job for you comes to you quickly and gently and easily







:

Amy







I can totally relate to your feelings about the move and stuff. I'm really not loving Swindon- being tied to a car, a bus, something with wheels is grating on me and god, this town is so totally and utterly chavvy







Steve has been offered a job in the school he's on placement at, subject to interview and references, and it's turning out to be a tough decision to make- it would be a great start to his career but it does mean that we'd be stuck here for another 2 years, and we don't really know what to do







: Good luck to you on your journey back to health and happiness. I don't know if I'm reading you right, but it sounds like you're feeling almost good about the fibro diagnosis because now you have more knowledge about what's going on and how to understand it? Or am I way off-base? Whichever way, I know you can deal with it.
I'm getting seriously stressed out about the whole contraception issue here- can I vent? River sleeps at night, well, which means I can't rely on breastfeeding for contraception, and I had a bout of fertile cervical mucus last week- at the moment we're using FAM. Well, towards the end of pregnancy we agreed that we were done and he was getting a vasectomy. Now he isn't. I don't know what to think right now, but there's a certain amount of resentment there- I get the impression that he is receptive to baby number five, but would prefer an accident.







: Does anyone have ANY ideas what I'm meant to say to this?
Andi, I'm so sorry about Lisa, and so impressed by your calm and whole approach to it. I think the universe owes you enough time to take a yoga class, though







:


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I get the impression that he is receptive to baby number five, but would prefer an accident.







: Does anyone have ANY ideas what I'm meant to say to this?

Well, you might remember that I was in this same boat a few months back, and several mamas on here urged me to have a straight-out talk with dh about this lovely little pickle. I did, and we agreed that it wasn't the best idea to try and conceive, but rather we would continue with "loose" FAM and be open to accidents!







Good luck, mama, with whatever you choose to say to it!

Amy, wow! What a month! And amid your resumed Ph.D. studies. (Or maybe having something to do with the stress of your resumed Ph.D. studies?) I thought it was so beautiful that you chose to focus on those gems--bodily health, self-love and -forgiveness.

Kavita, what an undertaking; I am seriously impressed. It was funny to me that you mentioned wanting to plan for every contingency. A few days ago, I totally made a diagram of my perfectly-packed 1/2 day and 1-or-more day diaper bag, thinking that would prevent the frequent occasions that I reach for the snappi/arnica/pen/mama pad and realize it's not there. Do I need to tell you I promptly lost this preciously labeled drawing?







Jen, I am on my way to that love-your-imperfect-self site!

Andi, that is so, so tough. My mom and sister both developed cancer (thyroid and breast) within a month or so of one another a little over a year ago (note: DO NOT move to Toms River, NJ). It was definitely a shake-up for our family, in exactly the kind of mixed-blessing way you described.

So the thing at my school seems to have arisen from one wonderful but rather alarmist teacher-friend of mine. I rallied my supporters, and they all reassured me that they'd only heard wonderful things about me and about how it's working out with Woody this year, so my panic button has been reset for the time being. But Helen, I really do feel like teaching is in many ways hostile to parenting. I think that even the most patient, loving, and well-intended parents would really prefer it if I were a young, single, childless woman with all my energy to direct toward their children instead of anything else. I can understand that impulse, but it sure is tough being on the other side of it.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HoneyTree* 

Kavita, what an undertaking; I am seriously impressed. It was funny to me that you mentioned wanting to plan for every contingency. A few days ago, I totally made a diagram of my perfectly-packed 1/2 day and 1-or-more day diaper bag, thinking that would prevent the frequent occasions that I reach for the snappi/arnica/pen/mama pad and realize it's not there. Do I need to tell you I promptly lost this preciously labeled drawing?

Well, don't get too impressed till I actually manage to pull it off!!







Oh, I can believe it about the diaper bag list/diagram. I used to have a checklist for the diaper bag too when Ella was younger, but that eventually went by the wayside. This time when I come up with a master packing list for this trip I'm going to put it on the computer and save it--I had one like that done for hiking/camping in my more outdoorsy days and it really helped me pack quickly before trips without forgetting anything and without having to think the entire trip through every single time. I went yesterday and bought a pad of those huge post-its (like poster size) on a tabletop easel because it occured to me that it would be helpful to have a bigger place to write everything down so we could sort of look at things all at once and spread things out so we could see it mapped out in a less linear way. So now my dining room has big pages hanging on the walls with lists of things to do and who is supposed to do them and when. But it seems less overwhelming when it's spread out like that.

In crazy news, we had an earthquake here at about 5:30 this morning!!!! It was about 5 points from what I've been able to find online. It was seriously weird, because I was asleep and suddenly I woke up because there was this rumbling and the bed and the whole house was vibrating and shaking. I remember just sort of waking up partially like "what the hell is that?!" and one of our dogs was barking like crazy in the other room and I touched the wall and determined that it was moving. I half asleep went through the possible list of what could be going on (the train passing? no. someone doing some construction? no. storm? no.) and then determining "oh, it must be an earthquake then." I suppose that if things had been a little crazier and items were falling off the dresser or anything like that I would have gotten up and declared it an emergency, but as it stands it stopped and I just went back to sleep.







DH and Ella didn't even wake up, and I was so tired that I just conked back out and then had so many totally crazy bizarre dreams that this morning I wasn't even sure that it had happenned and thought maybe it had been a dream too. I called DH at work and he didn't know anything about it but then I heard something on the radio (someone referencing "missing all the fun this morning") that made me look it up and sure enough, there was an earthquake!! There was no damage to any property and roads, though, so all is well. But it's crazy!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
DID~ I may not be remembering correctly, but weren't you kind of upset with your midwife from Winter's birth from how she "managed" pushing? Have you guys talked about this issue? Winter sounds like so much fun, BTW!

Yeah, we'll talk about it at some point when we're pregnant again. Worse comes to worse, I may end up saying I have to go to the bathroom and just go push my baby out alone


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Heck, DiD, it worked for me







There honestly wasn't a point in that labour, other than when we did (or, I guess, when my waters first broke) when it felt right to call the midwife.

Kavita, I'm still trying to figure out whether I felt the earthquake over here a few weeks back or not, and I honestly don't know







: Something woke me up at that time, but I don't know if it was the quake or just coincidence.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

helen, I hadn't heard that you had an earthquake. (then again it took me a while to even figure out that *I* had one, that's how out of touch with the news that I am!)

I'm feeling so excited today, very energized and happy. I did a whole lot of hacking up produce yesterday, I reduced an entire box of mangoes into mango slices neatly in a container in the fridge ready for eating and squeezed lemons into juice for lemonade. (Maybe lavender lemonade? Haven't decided yet.) And I got a few little chores done yesterday that I needed to, and made some very good smoothies, and with the huge pile of mango peels I accumulated I am following Mel's suggestion and putting them into my worm box in a net produce bag to entice the worms and harvest my compost. I have a huge amount of finished compost, and I'm looking forward to trying to put some worm tea on my lawn and garden plants and seeing if I can get the lushest greenest (and "Greenest") lawn in the neighborhood through natural means. The azaleas (those that I didn't manage to kill off last year) are blooming, I have tulips and daffodils and crocuses and hyacinths and lilac and violets and a bush they call the "chocolate bush" and our dogwood tree is blooming and the shagbark hickory is starting to put forth leaves. I'm so excited! Especially because it's all the work of the previous homeowner, so I feel really glad that we got a house with such a nice landscape already in place and that there is also room for adding as I like and of course replacing anything that dies. It's fun though too since this is the first time we've seen it here in spring, so I don't even know what's coming up and it's a big suprise when everything emerges and blooms! I'm going to put in some tomatoes and basil and such too. Woo hoo!!! Now I just have to bribe Amy and our neighbors to watch out for them and water them when I'm gone!!









Happy Saturday everybody!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

After how I've been feeling this week, I honestly think I've been anemic for a long time. Like since Winter's birth, possibly even longer than that. For the last 2+ years I've needed 10 or more hours of sleep but still wake up tired and sluggish. I have no energy and if I clean my house, I have to sit down afterwards and basically can't function beyond a couple of hours of activity. But since I've been taking my iron supplement regularly and just generally taking good care of myself for the first time in like, forever, I am getting 7-8 hours of sleep a night and waking up feeling rested! And energy, oh my goodness. My house is spotless and I don't drag through my whole day in a fog of exhaustion. Suriya is still waking like she has for the last 14 months so it has nothing to do with that. It's got to be the iron I've been taking. I literally feel like a new person. I've been waking every morning and cleaning my kitchen first thing after the kids have breakfast, and by noon my house is completely clean and I still have a ton of energy to play with my kids and last night I wasn't even tired when the kids went to bed at 8:30. I finally got tired around 12:30 when Jim got home from work, but I kid you not, prior to this week I have always fallen asleep with Kolaiah at 8 o'clock, woken up and just feel like a zombie until Jim comes home and we go to bed.
I am not kidding, I feel like a brand new person! Alive! With energy!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

DiD--Having babies close together and nursing is very hard on your body, and takes its toll nutritionally (esp. in terms of things like iron, calcium, omega fatty acids, and folate) so if you are closely spacing pregnancies especially if you are nursing as well (and that much more if you've had some issues like excessive bleeding) it is important to really pay extra attention to your nutrition. One thing I have started doing in the last couple of months which I think would benefit you tremendously is making green smoothies. (Check out the website www.greensmoothiegirl.com for a little more information.) Basically a green smoothie is a smoothie that is made with greens and fruit. It's shocking how many leafy greens you can cram into a blender with a cup or two of water and blend into oblivion, and then add a roughly equal amount of fresh (or frozen, which I prefer) fruit. You usually can't even taste the greens, and this is tremendously nutritious. Greens have a ton of folate, iron, calcium, etc., as well as other vitamins and minerals and chlorophyll (which is good for raising your iron levels.) Throw in some flaxseed or flaxseed oil in there and you have a decent omega source as well. It's pretty tasty and easy. I personally use kale, spinach, romaine, celery, swiss chard, etc. and mix with bananas, strawberries, mangos, cherries, etc. If you are interested I can pass on some more recipes and ideas. I don't have a power blender like a vitamix or a blendtec, so I tend to pre-chop bigger or "woody" stuff like big pieces of kale and maybe add some extra water. Ella loves these too, she asks for green "smoovies" a lot!

Anyway, glad that you're feeling better with the supplementation, but I'd try this too if you can--it's been really beneficial for us!


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm back from the seder, and pulled off the kosher for passover vegan birthday cake. I'll post details when I don't have miss sugar-coma sprawled on my lap.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

DiD, I'm in total agreement with Kavita about the closely spaced pregnancies. It can be done, but there is a physical price to be paid for having our kids closer together.

Kavita, I love the sound of your garden







I haven't said yet, but I am so excited about your trip to India- I spent some time there when I was 17, and I loved it. Safe travelling!

Mel, glad to hear the cake worked







I thought you were going sugar-free though?

I don't want to be 31. I don't want to have to look at my life and realise how little I have achieved since turning 21. Wwwaaaah. Strop.







(tomorrow, not today. The anticipation is worse than the actual horror.)


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I love green smoothies, and I feel so much more energized on days when I have them! Why haven't I made them in months?







But my favorite recipe is a big handful of Kale (tastes so much better to me than other greens, more crisp and less earthy), banana, frozen strawberries, a bit of yogurt and milk (and sometimes I'm really bad and add a little splenda to make it sweeter). Killian and Ellie were less than 18 months apart and I agree its tremendously hard on the body. It was a good 9-12 months after her birth till I felt like myself again, in many ways (physically, emotionally, etc). I also recently read "The Omega-3 Connection" and the author goes on and on and on about how depleted women get in omega-3s when pregnant and nursing, it convinced me to be more diligent about taking my omega-3s. There's also a lot of evidence that omega-3 depletion leads to all kinds of awfulness: depression, diabetes, heart disease. Fish oil is the best source, flax oil is pretty good, too. (but don't take big doses of cod liver oil because you can OD on... Vitamin D, I think? Or E? whatever else is in cod liver oil - in order to get a significant amount of omega-3s you'll OD on the other) Really good book, by the way - I highly recommend it!

We had a fun day yesterday: went out to eat, went to a music concert for kids, went to Lowes and bought all kinds of plants, came home and I planted them, then I suddenly became very ill-feeling. I think I had just a touch of food-poisoning. I slept for 11 hours, though, and now I feel better. Whew! (That was one weird thing - between the time I had Killy and Ellie turned one, I had HORRIFIC food poisoning twice - the type that you never, ever forget. I actually called my dad and begged him to hire an assassin to come kill me, both times. I really feel like my body was just so worn down from birthing and nursing that I was way more susceptible to food poisoning than usual.) Anyway, I'm planting a bit early since our "frost date" isn't till May 5th, but its not supposed to get below mid-40s for the next 10 days and we've had an incredibly mild winter, so I'm hoping I get away with it!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh, Jen, I know that kind of food poisoning! I had that once, when a friend brought a bucket of oysters down from Denman Island and we had a big raw-oyster pigout, and then sat around chatting for hours, then after everyone left I was cleaning up and there was one oyster left in the bucket (which had long since ceased to contain ice) and just without thinking I sucked it back... well, 12 hours later I was asking people to put me out of my misery, and it lasted for about 2 days. ugh. Strangely enough though I still like raw oysters. Guess I'm not very smart.

Anyway, I agree on the green smoothies but if you can find a good source of eggs that you trust (pastured happy chickens) it's a good idea to throw a couple raw eggs in your smoothies too. You need the protein and fat, and raw eggs are eggsellent (hee) sources of Vit A & D. (That's what's in CLO too Jen, and if it's a good CLO you don't have to worry so much about the overdosing, because it's a form and ratio that your body can handle well.) And if you can afford it, copious amounts of pastured red meat sure wouldn't hurt either. Liver too. Lots of liver. Mmmmm.

Anyway, on the child spacing and whatnot - yeah I've decided I'm going to risk old eggs and go for about 5 years between Rowan and the next one, if there is a next one... I like the dynamic of that spacing, and I had SUCH a gruesome hemmorhage after Rowan, I still don't feel back to myself again yet, and I need to build up the nutrition stores to better than they were pre-Rowan just in case that happens again. And FTR - I had gobs of pitocin, and still bled out horrendously. But I had an epi as well, and had to push much harder than I would have otherwise to avoid a c-section. (9 lb baby with arm over head, out in less than an hour... yeah) So altogether not an ideal birth. But even if that hadn't happened, I'd still err on the side of more time rather than less, and I have less remaining reproductive time than most of y'all. (And on that note, happy birthday Helen!!! 31 was a good year for me







)

There is a pigeon sitting on a windowsill just outside our living room right now and I swear it is watching TV. Creepy.

My mom leaves today and I don't want her to!!! This is the first visit in, like, forever where I haven't been thoroughly ready to get rid of her.







It's been a lovely visit even though I was sick for most of it. Rowan's really warmed up to her and they've been having fun reading and playing together.

ETA oh yeah and it SNOWED here yesterday. WTF?!?!?!


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Hey, mamas. Thanks for posting all this good info about the green smoothies. I hate to admit it, but I was resistant to the whole concept once Oprah and a bunch of other celebs jumped on board. I deplore fad diet crazes. But it sounds like I may have prejudiced myself against something good...

Helen, I'm going to be 31 this year, too. When I think of what presents I want to get for myself this year (a delightful way to spend the time), I am coming up with nothing so appropriate as an electric toothbrush and water pick! But every woman who I talk to about such things says that the 30s are way better than the 20s in terms of self. And by the by, are you an Aries or a Taurus?

We're just back from our camping trip. It was wonderful, one of the best I've been on in a long time. A outfitter near the river where we camped hosted a river clean-up for Earth Day; they waived their canoe rental fees if you arrived at 8 a.m. with a bag in hand and promised to pick up trash as you paddled! It was so cool. Luckily dh is a master paddler (having spent all of his childhood and most of his adult life in a john boat on the bayou), so Woody and I could just chill in the middle section while he did all the work. But we did see a 9-foot alligator on the bank about 20 feet from us.







Now I have seen many, many alligators in my life, but when I saw this biggie take a step toward the water just as we passed, I experienced a jolt of primal fear that I can happily say I had never before felt and do not wish to know again. But the camping and the hiking, and even all the rest of the paddling, was divine.


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi ladies,

Just thought I'd add my 2cents about green smoothies. Since my partner was diagnosed with breast cancer we have completely changed our diets and she eats almost a completely raw diet. she does occationally eat grassfed, organic beef and raw milk but the raw greendrink is a major part of her diet.

we own a vitamix which is AMAZING and blows away your conventional blender. you can pretty much put anything in it...skins and all...and it blends it smoothly. it's a great way to get the optimal nutrients from the veggies and fruits you wish to juice. juicers are great too when you want a very smooth drink but your left still with the pulp which is so super good for you!! the vitamix does it all! anyway, that's my plug about the vitamix...they are very expensive though and we were blessed to receive one as a gift...

this is our recipe for our green drink ...
digestion wise you have to be careful mixing veggies and fruit..it can do weird things to your tummy. we've been told by a nutritionist that apples are really the best fruit to mix with a green smoothie to sweeten it up and citrus should be avoided.
ok back to the recipe!
- one bunch of kale or any green of your choice, i guess!
- one cuke
- a couple of stalks of celery
- one bunch of parsley (excellent to cleanse and detoxify)
- one or two! apples
- half water
blend and enjoy! i should note that i have never tried this in a regular blender so i'm not sure how it would work.

Anyway, David Wolfe has been an inspiration for us as far as our food choices...he's a raw food guru and a bit out there but a lot of what he beleives rings true for us...
check him out if you want! www.davidwolfe.com
really, i beleive in everything in moderation (like i can't live without a pint of ben&jerry's every now and then!)...but i do feel so much better when I eat whole, organic fresh food!!

peace to everyone!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
DiD--Having babies close together and nursing is very hard on your body, and takes its toll nutritionally (esp. in terms of things like iron, calcium, omega fatty acids, and folate) so if you are closely spacing pregnancies especially if you are nursing as well (and that much more if you've had some issues like excessive bleeding) it is important to really pay extra attention to your nutrition. One thing I have started doing in the last couple of months which I think would benefit you tremendously is making green smoothies. (Check out the website www.greensmoothiegirl.com for a little more information.) Basically a green smoothie is a smoothie that is made with greens and fruit. It's shocking how many leafy greens you can cram into a blender with a cup or two of water and blend into oblivion, and then add a roughly equal amount of fresh (or frozen, which I prefer) fruit. You usually can't even taste the greens, and this is tremendously nutritious. Greens have a ton of folate, iron, calcium, etc., as well as other vitamins and minerals and chlorophyll (which is good for raising your iron levels.) Throw in some flaxseed or flaxseed oil in there and you have a decent omega source as well. It's pretty tasty and easy. I personally use kale, spinach, romaine, celery, swiss chard, etc. and mix with bananas, strawberries, mangos, cherries, etc. If you are interested I can pass on some more recipes and ideas. I don't have a power blender like a vitamix or a blendtec, so I tend to pre-chop bigger or "woody" stuff like big pieces of kale and maybe add some extra water. Ella loves these too, she asks for green "smoovies" a lot!

Anyway, glad that you're feeling better with the supplementation, but I'd try this too if you can--it's been really beneficial for us!

Kavita, thank you! This is exactly what I needed! I don't want to take supplements forever so a good food source is just what I was looking for. Please shower me with recipes and suggestions.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Theresa, I'm a Taurus. Thanks for the birthday wishes, you're making me feel better. I think it's just everything coming together- the whole "last child" thing, and 10 years on, and everything is just making me feel like I've wasted my life and scared of what the future holds. The immediate future, however, involves a lemon-poppyseed cake with cream cheese icing for breastmates in the morning.
Andi, I have the ingredients for the smoothie ready to get thrown in the blender in the morning.

Theresa, I love the sound of your camping trip and the earth day litter pick







We don't do earth day over here, so it seems very strange to hear you Americans talking about it.

Spughy, I know we talked about it before but I'm convinced that the reason I haemorrhaged with Isaac is because I was pushing cos I was told to, not because I "had" to- I think if I'd refused and waited then my contractions would have been strong enough to get my uterus clamping down tightly. Saying that, I lost a lot less blood with Skye and River than I did with the boys and Rowan, and I had the syntocinon jab with all three, so for me, I'm not convinced it works







:

Jen, I'm right there with you on the Omega 3's. I've been pretty good about taking them ever since I was pregnant with Skye, because when I didn't get enough then I started getting severe mood swings







: It does seem to be taking the edge off my PPD.

Oh, and I'm broody again. If you should see a British series called Gavin and Stacey floating around on a channel near you, you have to watch it- it's one of my favourite programmes ever and it has one of the sweetest labour scenes I've seen in a while too. Even if I was screaming at the set for her to get up onto all fours







I love this programme so much, it's just great.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

I posted a few pictures of our trip. The picture of the gator is all grainy, but I think you can see all that you would care to see!

And Helen, your comment that the U.K. doesn't official celebrate Earth Day made me check out the Wikipedia history of it. Interesting... Is anybody doing something fun?

And now I'm off to the cupboard for one of the Omega-3 capsules that I've had for months but infrequently remember to take!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Queen of Cups* 
(but don't take big doses of cod liver oil because you can OD on... Vitamin D, I think? Or E? whatever else is in cod liver oil - in order to get a significant amount of omega-3s you'll OD on the other)

Vit A. It's fat soluble and toxic in too high amounts. Especially if you're pregnant, it can be damaging to the fetus.

As for why you haven't been making them . . . .um, because you are tired of cleaning the blender? ;-)
Just a guess! lol!


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Okay, back again, lol!

HoneyTree, I had no idea that green smoothies was a trendy Oprah thing. I guess it's a good thing that we don't have TV! (We're not ideologically "TV free" people inherently, we do have a television but it doesn't get any reception since Ella screwed it up somehow last year by pushing endless buttons and we're too lazy to figure it out and too cheap to get cable or satellite, plus we fear we'd never peel our fat butts off the couch if we had cable.) I am totally with you the "opposing on the fad" thing though--I tend to be perversely weird and oppositional about these sorts of things. Once something I've been doing diligently for years becomes some trendy mainstream thing, I tend to get disgusted about it. And whereas I do appreciate many aspects of Oprah's person and her work, I am really tired of her being the sole arbiter of culture in this country--if it's on Oprah, suddenly it's a big hit. Like, uh, reading.







Some of us did read the occasional novel before Oprah made a point of it. But overall I guess it's good really because there are some ideas and philosophies trickling their way down to people who probably wouldn't otherwise do their own investigating of these things. (nutrition, spirituality, literature.) And heck, it's better than, say, Jerry Springer. But it's crazy how truly pervasive Oprah is, apparently worldwide--like I can't call my MIL (in Calcutta!) at a certain time in the afternoon because that's when she watches Oprah!!

And yeah . . . that alligator looks scary! Nice pics though, it looks like a beautiful place! I love canoeing, luckily I now live right near a river so maybe I'll have to get into it once again. I had a (sort of) similar primal fear experience with a bear once when I was backpacking alone (well, except for my two dogs) in Arizona's White Mountains--definitely bear country. I was camped in an alpine valley and the sound really carried, and off in the distance I heard a bear sort of growl/roar or whatever you call the noise a bear makes and it echoed through the valley. It seriously froze me and the hair literally stood up on the back of my neck and it was like every cell in my body said "bear!!!" It wasn't even conscious thought, it was like this very animal instinct that knew. I spent most of the night sitting by my little campfire and hoping I didn't get eaten by a bear!

DiD, I'll pass on some recipes, but basically any type of fruit you like plus any greens. I also don't put citrus and bananas together, but that's just me. The other day I made a smoothie that was like the fresh veggie juice that we get when we go to Whole Foods--a handful of mixed baby spinach and romaine, a peeled cucumber, a bit of ginger (like 1 inch or so), a splash of lemon juice, a carrot, a stalk of celery, some parsley,an apple or two, and a couple of cups of water. I blended that all up (like I said, I don't have a killer-powerful blender so I cut things like the carrot up into smaller pieces first and am careful to blend watery things first and then add harder things). It was a little too thick and pulpy and not cold enough so I reblended it with ice to a slushier consistency. Then it was still to thick for me, so I mixed in equal amounts of young coconut water, and that made it awesome--it was sweet and more like a medium-consistency of orange juice as far as thickness, so I just could gulp it down. Usually the taste of things doesn't bother me, but sometimes the texture is a problem, so I usually prefer to make things thinner so I can sip them or gulp them down rather than having to almost chew them! If you have a Trader Joe's nearby, they tend to have good prices on frozen fruit (IME). Bananas can often be bought on sale for pretty cheap when they are getting past good, and that's when they are perfect to buy for smoothies, so if you buy them then, I have been peeling them, breaking them in half, putting them on a cookie sheet lined with waxed paper in the freezer to freeze individually, then putting them into a big freezer bag once they are frozen. That makes it faster and easier to just grab, rather than peeling once frozen. If you just experiment, you will find what you like. You might start with fewer greens at first, then add more as you go along. Also be warned that some greens (like kale or collards) have a LOT of fiber, and if you're not used to eating that much fiber it will make you poop, especially if you mix it with a fibrous, poop-inducing fruit like blueberries. I made a kale/collard/spinach/blueberry/mixed berry smoothie as one of my first attempts, that had the entire family pooping like crazy for the next two days!







I haven't been using milk, I actually find that I prefer doing fruit and water based smoothies with most greens, and then leaving the milk and nut milks for more fruit based smoothies. I like mango, parsley and water. Generally I find that for more cabbage-y tasting greens (like kale and chard and collard) I like to cover them up a bit with stronger flavored berries (like blueberries/mixed berries and such, and for greens that are lighter like parsley and romaine, I like to use milder tasting fruits like mango or strawberry that sort of blend well with the flavor of the greens but come out sort of fresh tasting and don't cover up the greens entirely. My last hint is for the blender--once you've poured the smoothie into glasses if you immediately fill up the blender container with hot water, put a drop of dish soap into it and put it back on the base and blend it, it practically cleans the blender for you.

andi--ooh, lucky you to have a gifted vitamix! I personally am wanting a blendtec, but I guess that's one of those ford/chevy situations in the raw food world! Everybody seems to have their own preference/loyalty to one of the other! I've been starting to get interested in raw food diets. I am not going to strictly adopt one, but I definitely am interested in learning more and have been working on incorporating more raw foods in my diet--adding more green smoothies, more salads, etc. I have realized that really, part of the reason that I have major trouble with a vegetarian diet is really that the American concept of vegetarianism includes very few vegetables and fewer greens!! I mean, there is so much emphasis on tofu and fake meat products and cheese and carbohydrates. I'm not going veggie either, but I am really working on upping the veggies in our family diet. I'm really so lucky too that my DH is such an enthusiast--he's one of those types of people who is usually willing to jump on board pretty easily with things that I want to implement and doesn't resist change very much, so unlike many husbands who drag their heels with things like that, he's kind of like "Great idea honey! Do you want me to run out and get some lettuce?"









Q of C-- I know you are into the south beach diet and I think he's got a reasonably decent diet there overall, but I think that he's dead wrong with the splenda. There has been more recent research that artificial sweeteners, in addtion to the other problems, actually put you at risk for metabolic syndrome, obesity, and diabetes. I think this is true of splenda as well as aspartame. It just seems so counterproductive if what you want is to not gain weight, because the research is all saying that they actually do the opposite! have you tried stevia or agave nectar? I like agave nectar because it is sweet and doesn't taste chemically but is very neutral flavor (like sugar) but it's very low glycemic and doesn't cause the blood sugar spike/insulin resonse that sugar or other sweeteners do.

Helen--Happy Birthday!!!!!!

spughy--I know what you mean about feeling depleted and unready physically. I am just now sort of starting to feel like I could handle another pregnancy. It might be fine to be pregnant if I didn't have kid #1 to take care of, but it concerns me how I could manage one and a pregnancy and then two kids. I bled a bit more than I liked with Ella too--I think the midwives sort of underestimated, but I really was feeling sort of breathless and weak and pretty close to passing out by the time I got my placenta out (2 1/2 hours later!). I have later wondered if that general situation was part of the reason that my milk was slow to come in fully and my supply seemed low overall the first months. I think that I was just too exhausted after such a long labor and my uterus just seemed to crap out after pushing her out, and I didn't get any real postpartum contractions until I finally got her latched on well two hours later, despite a shot or two of pitocin in the interim. All in all, though, I wouldn't change a thing, except that maybe I'd like to have a little more help in the first months so I could get a bit better food--sometimes the only way to eat was to get the screaming baby into the car so she'd quiet down, drive around, go through a fast food drivethrough and eat in the car while slowly driving through residential neighborhoods until she fell asleep. Now that I live closer (ie within driving distance) from my parents it should hopefully be better next time. My mom visited me exactly twice in the nine years that I lived in Tucson--and one of those times was for my wedding. But they've driven down here twice already since I moved here. I have threatened my mother that she had better retire if she wants any more grandkids, so she can come here and help!!

Mel--I am dying to hear about the final passover vegan birthday cake!!! Post or email soon with details and pics if you have them!


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

As usual, I can't keep up with you ladies!

But, Happy Belated Birthday Helen! I hope the lemon poppyseed cake was delicious. I want a slice! And I hope this year proves a delightful one, as you look at ALL you've done, creating and raising four beautiful children and all.

The green smoothie sounds good...perhaps I should add some greens. I've been doing smoothies, but haven't included those greens...just the raw eggs and raw milk and yummy stuff like that.

Amy, I'm sorry you've been having a hard time this past month, and I hope this month you can find solace and peace, even in the knowing that you're not happy with some things. I have not been happy about where we are since we moved here, basically, and DH and I were just talking about it last night, and how it seems okay that we don't like it, as long as we are aware of it, and what we are doing here, and why we are here, and that it cannot be forever, that we won't let it be much longer. I am more tolerant of this place when good things are happening career-wise, I admit, but simply "tolerant", never thrilled. Anyway, just a ramble, but you are not alone.

And andi, welcome! I'm so sorry you and your partner have had such a tough year with her cancer diagnosis. I hope that she heals quickly and gently, and I hope that you get some time to yourself, too! I agree that a yoga class is in order.

Kavita, you continue to amaze me with all that you're doing. I'm anticipating your India trip with you!

Ok...I gotta go! Am meeting an actor-friend for lunch.

Reading along and thinking of you all always, fondly


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

And I forgot to say, HoneyTree, the gator story made me jump!!! Being a FLoridian, I know that feeling all too well, though maybe it hasn't been QUITE as scary as you describe...more like seeing 9 foot gators move slowly through the water near me, not lurching. Ahh!

I'm glad things are sorting out for you at school, and I'm so interested to see what path you end up choosing for Woody when he's of "school" age.


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay, back again, lol!
andi--ooh, lucky you to have a gifted vitamix! I personally am wanting a blendtec, but I guess that's one of those ford/chevy situations in the raw food world! Everybody seems to have their own preference/loyalty to one of the other! I've been starting to get interested in raw food diets. I am not going to strictly adopt one, but I definitely am interested in learning more and have been working on incorporating more raw foods in my diet--adding more green smoothies, more salads, etc. I have realized that really, part of the reason that I have major trouble with a vegetarian diet is really that the American concept of vegetarianism includes very few vegetables and fewer greens!! I mean, there is so much emphasis on tofu and fake meat products and cheese and carbohydrates. I'm not going veggie either, but I am really working on upping the veggies in our family diet. I'm really so lucky too that my DH is such an enthusiast--he's one of those types of people who is usually willing to jump on board pretty easily with things that I want to implement and doesn't resist change very much, so unlike many husbands who drag their heels with things like that, he's kind of like "Great idea honey! Do you want me to run out and get some lettuce?"

















Yeah...i totally agree with you about the mass marketing of those scary and not healthy soy products. We don't eat ANY soy unless it's fermented like tempeh and miso. The info out there...well i should say the info that is most visible...isn't the truth about soy. Tofu and other soy products should never be a replacement for protein and it's horrible to digest! A really great book is called "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon .... she gets into a lot of interesting stuff ...very good! I'm not into going totally one way either...but i'd say we're right in between what sally fallon has to say and some of the raw food peeps too. Like for ie fallon gets into the importance of raw dairy...and i have always been a bit dairy phobic!!! but since we've been drinking raw, organic milk...i feel GREAT!! and Stella loves it too! raw cheese is good too!
Anyway ... there's so much info out there on nutrition ... i take what rings true with my intuition and hope for the best!!!
peace!
And yes, that vitamix is like gold to us ... it's great!!


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Hello,

I hope I didn't offend anyone when I dissed tofu!!! I just really believe that it's not AS healthy as the industry claims it to be!!

I also want to thank you all for sending your good vibes my way regarding my partner...she is on the road to a full recovery and is doing really well!!
AND i'm definitely going to try to fit a bikram class in atleast twice/week...that's a big goal but we're going to try to make it work!! i have found it so hard to get into an exercise routine since stella was born. i was a bikram freak before babe!!!

Anyway...thanks again!!







:
Peace


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Andi, I'm with you in the anti-tofu camp







I'm not a huge Sally Fallon fan (I just got rid of my copy of NT), but I am very into traditional foods, raw dairy, pastured everything - totally the way to go.







There are a lot of us on MDC, you should check out the Traditional Foods sub-forum in Nutrition and Good Eating, if you haven't already found it.

We had a fun day, actually, going to pick up our raw milk. It snowed on us, but it was the weirdest snowstorm ever. We came upon it suddenly, and the road was suddenly covered in snow, cars were sliding down a hill ahead of us, so I decided it was too risky, turned around and went home another route that's longer but closer to the ocean. Within 500 metres the road was clear, it was sunny, and we didn't see another hint of snow all day, and this afternoon we had our jackets off at the beach. Craziness.

Kavita, I got inspired by you and made myself a green smoothie this morning. Then I had another one for lunch because I couldn't think of anything else to eat.







Except mine are not all veg - I put kefir, 2 raw eggs, strawberries, beet greens, cucumbers, apple and a wee banana in them. Yum. Dinner is chili, just for variety. And I gotta go, cause it smells like the cornbread is about done.


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

spughy said:


> Andi, I'm with you in the anti-tofu camp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## *Amy* (Jun 16, 2004)

I can't keep up with y'all either! Kavita, thanks for posting the green smoothie site - I really enjoyed it! Now I have the desire to go spend $300 on a blender.









Anyhoo, I just have a second to say I get to see Barack Obama speak on Wednesday!! I'm pretty sure I will be voting for him in the primary (in 2 weeks) but even if I don't, I still think it's an awesome opportunity. I'm stoked!







Kavita, I don't know which way your leaning (actually I don't even know when your primary is!) but I posted to the AP list on how to get a ticket if you're interested. I think Jason may try to go as well.

I'll catch up with all tomorrow if possible.







to all.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Amy, another friend of mine saw him speak last week and I got the impression he comes across well.

Spughy, on fermenting. I got a copy of the Handmade Loaf by Dan Lepard for my birthday, and you need to read this book. Lots of traditional artisanal breads and doughs. Yum.
Andi, I'm another tofu sceptic- I'm sceptical for a different reason, because I try to eat local and I seem to do better on food that grows well where I do







:


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Helen, my Taurus turned 9 today. I knew there was a reason I liked you so much! Happy birthday!

Okay, so I got two bunches of kale and two bunches of spinach today at the store, along with a pound of flax seeds. I have oranges, strawberries and bananas and any more expensive fruit will have to wait until the weekend. I only want to make enough for myself because no one else wants a smoothie, so I'd probably only use a little of everything right?


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Spughy, on fermenting. I got a copy of the Handmade Loaf by Dan Lepard for my birthday, and you need to read this book. Lots of traditional artisanal breads and doughs. Yum.
Andi, I'm another tofu sceptic- I'm sceptical for a different reason, because I try to eat local and I seem to do better on food that grows well where I do







:

Ooo, that book sounds good. I will keep my eyes open for it. And that is an excellent point about the tofu being non-local, I knew there was another reason I was squiffy about it.

And HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR HELEN!!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUUUUUUU!!!!




























Sorry I'm late!

DiD - yeah I'd think so. Maybe go with 1/4 of a bunch of the kale and spinach to start? Hard to say, I don't think anyone's standardized a "bunch" measurement yet.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
Helen, my Taurus turned 9 today. I knew there was a reason I liked you so much! Happy birthday!

Okay, so I got two bunches of kale and two bunches of spinach today at the store, along with a pound of flax seeds. I have oranges, strawberries and bananas and any more expensive fruit will have to wait until the weekend. I only want to make enough for myself because no one else wants a smoothie, so I'd probably only use a little of everything right?

Okay, my vote is this: throw about a cup of water in the blender and a small handful of spinach and 1-2 kale leaves and blend it up. If it's not blending easily despite pulsing it at a medium speed, add more water. Then add about a cup of strawberries and 2 frozen bananas. Taste and adjust as necessary. I'd leave the oranges out for now at least. I'd also wait on adding any flaxseeds--they are easy to add to other things (grind and add to cereals, oatmeal, baked goods, etc.) I'm an advocate of starting slow with things and adding more as you go, rather than throwing everything in all at once and then making yourself want to barf.









and andimama, obviously, I agree with you on the tofu.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hey speaking of tofu, where did Gunter go??? We haven't heard from her in a long time.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

: Good point, spughy. She hasn't been posting anywhere with the February moms either. Saying that, she went very quiet for a while after Ezra was born as well, so she could just be babymooning







:


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

I was doing some research on worm composting and I found a cool site, this woman makes knit redworms! Very cool!

Here is some cool "knitting in public" pics I thought you knitters might all enjoy:
http://www.cityworm.com/travelsyarn.htm

and her pattern to knit a worm:

http://www.cityworm.com/oneredworm.htm

I thought Mel especially might enjoy this last one as a fellow knitting worm composter! Do you still teach worm composting or will you return to it? This might be a nice fun teaching aid!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, Gunter updated her etsy store on the 14th, so I'm assuming she's fine.

Kavita, I love the worms. But I keep thinking of a man in an oversized chicken suit (one of Isaac's first memories) coming along and trying to eat them. Weird.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

I'm not teaching worm composting (in fact never actually got around to teaching it, other than informal advice to fellow gardeners). But the worms are terrific! I might have to make one









And the cake photo/description is on Neela's blog. I mention you by "Kavita" on there, so let me know if you want me to make you more anonymous







and I'll change it.

As for soy, I'm an occasional eater. I have a "protein hierarchy" that has nuts/beans as my first choice, organic meat (mostly poultry) as number two, soy as three, and non-organic meat below that. So in a restaurant given the choice between non-organic meat and soy, I'll pick soy. But that's just me. I'm totally fascinated by how different people seem to react/process to different foods. My DH digests beans very poorly, but I find meat much harder on my gut. Add in his egg allergy and Neela's dairy, and you'll find our household diet rather conflicted at times. Interestingly, allergy season plays a huge role in my DH's ability to digest; when his body is overwhelmed with plant pollens, he struggles with eating veggies in general (especially uncooked) and seems to need a really bland meat/cheese/simple grain kind of diet. When the allergies are better he can eat better variety. As a preference I'm mostly vegetarian, but I can't wrap my mind around making three dinners for three people, so we're all doing okay with some compromises.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelW* 
And the cake photo/description is on Neela's blog. I mention you by "Kavita" on there, so let me know if you want me to make you more anonymous







and I'll change it.

Wow, that looks even better than I expected!! I'm excited that it came out so good!














And thanks for the shout-out--I felt bad that I didn't go farther with recipe testing but I got kinda busy with other craziness and being sick. and yep, that's adequately anonymous, thanks for asking!









A few more thoughts about the soy thing--I think part of the thing that I see as a problem with soy products isn't even only about soy per se, but soy is a very good example of how we deal with food in our culture as a whole. There is a tendency to embrace or espouse one or two "miracle foods" of the moment and see those things as a magic bullet, combined with a mentality that "if some is good then more is better." I think there are probably very few foods that are good for you if you eat them as 50% of your dietary intake. But that's what I see a lot of American vegetarians do with soy--they take the standard american diet and replace all the poultry, fish, beef, pork, and often some or all dairy and eggs and then replace them with soy products. And there is an industry trying to encourage them to "get their daily minimum" of soy, to eat a certain number of grams of soy protein a day. For example--soymilk on cereal in the morning or a soymilk and/or soy protein powder smoothie or a tofu scramble, a soy based veggie burger for lunch, and a tofu stir fry for dinner. I mean, this is a bit of an extreme example, I'm exaggerating slightly but really I don't think it's that far off base from how I've seen some people eat. When you start replacing all these other food groups with one single food source (ie soy) much of which is genetically modified and heavily processed, I think that's problematic. I know people who are vegetarians who actually eat very few vegetables--they basically just eat the standard american diet but with soy crap replacing the meat and dairy. I do eat a little bit of soy--some soy in the protein powder I buy once in a while, sometimes some miso soup with a few bits of tofu floating around in it, some edamame. I don't think a little bit of soy is inherently unhealthy or dangerous for most people any more than a little bit of chocolate or a glass of wine--I just think that the concept that soy is this great health food so you should replace as many of your other foods with it as you can is a mistaken idea. I think that probably everyone should eat the most varied diet that they can manage, and that would eliminate a lot of problems (including some food allergy/intolerance, nutritional deficits, etc.)

Thanks for letting me ramble on about this! This (diet and nutrition) is a subject that is a real interest of mine right now, so I've been doing lots of reading and thinking about it lately!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
Okay, my vote is this: throw about a cup of water in the blender and a small handful of spinach and 1-2 kale leaves and blend it up. If it's not blending easily despite pulsing it at a medium speed, add more water. Then add about a cup of strawberries and 2 frozen bananas. Taste and adjust as necessary. I'd leave the oranges out for now at least. I'd also wait on adding any flaxseeds--they are easy to add to other things (grind and add to cereals, oatmeal, baked goods, etc.) I'm an advocate of starting slow with things and adding more as you go, rather than throwing everything in all at once and then making yourself want to barf.









and andimama, obviously, I agree with you on the tofu.









Ugh well my smoothie this morning was awful. I gagged it down but it sat in my stomach like a rock for hours. I added 1 kale leaf to my normal smoothie along with 1 tbsp of flax seeds and it was just wrong. Definitely got to work on the recipe a bit.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I'm not a huge fan of the flax seeds - muck up the texture too much for my taste. But a nice strawberry/banana/kale smoothie is YUMMY! So very fresh and spring like. What exactly did you put in yours? Maybe we can offer some suggestions? (or did you follow the quoted suggestion exactly?) I prefer mine with milk and/or yogurt rather than water, makes for a nice creamy smoothie.

I'm going to have to stop by the grocery store tomorrow! All this talk has me seriously craving a smoothie!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I think it's the flax seeds, DiD. A tablespoon? yuck. I use the oil because I just don't like what the seeds do to the texture of my smoothies.

Great post, Kavita


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Here's my normal smoothie: 1 container of yogurt, 1 banana, handful of frozen strawberries. I added 1 kale leaf and 1 tbsp of flax seeds. YUCK.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Okay, on a completely different note:

Hold me. Winter is sleeping in his own bed. In a different room. I'm not even in bed yet and I miss him.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Yeah, I'd cut out the flaxseeds entirely. I put a bit of flax oil in sometimes, but seeds get kinda slimy. Grind them up and sprinkle them in oatmeal instead--yum!

OMG, I have had a scarily productive day today!! It's organizing mania around here, I am trying to get ready for the India trip and it's kind of kicking my butt into high gear. Some highlights not necessarily in order:
1. Made a comprehensive list of gifts to buy plus what's already bought for ILs. Made list of things to remember to pack.
2. Called Britax to request replacement carseat parts.
3. Went to the bank to deposit a check and put things in safe deposit. Made a list of all the documents in the safe deposit box plus what credit cards are in there, to send to my dad when we are gone. Birth certificates, ss cards, marriage license, estate plan, car titles, deed to our house--all there!







:
4. Went to return a few things I bought at the store for our trip and decided I didn't need.
5. Went to dollar store and got about 1/3 of the gifts we need to get the IL's, plus cheapo toys, stickers, a coloring book, candy bracelets for Ella for the plane. (Yes the toys are made in china probably toxic crap, but she's going to lose them in like five minutes anyway so I'm letting it slide for this special occasion.)
6. Found clothing store that I'd never been to next to dollar store that i'd never been to--decided to check it out, bought a few clothes for spring/summer. Cross that one thing off the list! Scored some really cute and cheap and decent quality and nickel free earrings too!
7. Ate crap for dinner. Fed family crap for dinner.
8. Mowed lawn.
9. Harvested some worm compost, made it into a tea and put it on the lawn. Got DH to water azaleas.
10. Got guy hired to mow lawn while we're away.
11. Made dentist appointment for root canal and filling.
12. Scheduled babysitter for Ella for the dentist appointment.
13. Mailed back netflix movie.
14. Put a bunch more CDs into itunes.
15. Harvested more worm compost.
16. Put Ella to bed.
17. Organized and cleaned and decluttered pantry closet.
18. Cleaned, decluttered and organized kitchen junk drawer, silverware drawer, utensil drawer, 2 cupboards.
19. Disposed of all #7 plastics.
20. Cleaned and decluttered Ella's crayons/drawing supplies, playdoh accessories.
21. Cleaned kitchen.

I am exhausted and I know that I'm going to pay dearly tomorrow (well, today, it's 5:40 in the morning and I've been up since yesterday morning







) but I feel so relieved that I'm getting this crap done!! I've been really cranky the last few days and Ella has too, and I realized tonight that it's because the house is a complete mess. I've been irritated that she's been really dragging stuff out and just strewing everything around the house faster than I can pick it up, and I realized that it's because there is too much clutter on my end too. We both seem to really do better when there is a clean and orderly environment, and I need to bring it back into line.

(if you've gotten through this thanks for humoring me and letting me ramble about this!)







:


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OMG, Kavita, go to bed NOW!!!!! I think you're insane, but very well organised, you know that, right?

I want a nap. River didn't sleep so well last night. Can't have one. Waargh







:


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## andimama (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi ladies!

Flaxseed has been really hard for me to take until I figured out a way to get it to work!! We give flaxseed and codliver oil to Stella and she has NO problem with it...I just can't believe that!! This is how I get my dose...
Every morning we make a fruit smoothie.
Here's my morning smoothie recipe if anyone cares! And this makes enough for two big pint glasses

handful each of (fresh when available and affordable!)
-frozen org blueberries
-frozen org strawberries
-frozen org rasberries
-juice from 1/2 lemon
-one half of a grapefruit..not just the juice, the whole thing less the peel








-about a quarter size piece of fresh ginger (again, the vitamix just blends it all up so you should peel it and crush it first if using a reg. blender







)
-some water
Blend until smooth then add two huge tbs of flaxseed oil..organic. i also put about 1/8 tsp of cayenne pepper...this is a great cleanser and it adds a yummy bight!!
Blend again
Enjoy!
I found putting flax in my greendrink to be yucky!! But this really works well...i don't even taste it or notice it at all.

Also, we use the seeds a lot...just grind them and put them on anything!! I put them in pretty much anything i bake! I've been told though, that if you grind fresh seeds, it's best to use them that same day or they lose their nutritional value!

Peace







:


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andimama* 
Also, we use the seeds a lot...just grind them and put them on anything!! I put them in pretty much anything i bake!









:

I put them in things like scones, muffins, etc. They add moisture and a nice mildly nutty flavor! I figure that even a tablespoon or two added to a recipe is adding just a bit more nutritional value plus it tastes good.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Kavita, you know my feelings on those kinds of days...







and







:, and also







and







!!!!!!


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, the author of my beautiful new breadbaking book has a website- with his free Guardain recipes up. Yum. www.danlepard.com


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

If you have _any_ experience with toddlers and boats, I would love your input here.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Wow, we must have all talked ourselves out the last couple days . . . slow around here today! We actually made it to page 3, sort of a record I think!









Ella has said a few really hilarious things in the last couple of days, I'm trying to remember what they are exactly. One was that she and I were in the shower, and she turned to face the other way and said to DH who was in the other room, "Dad, I need some privacy for my nipples." Then tonight she was sitting at the table with two sort of rectangular pieces of cheese and started pushing them around on the table and said, "I'm a cheese truck!" and then "I'm a cheese train!" I looked and the "truck" was one rectangle of cheese and the train was two. I thought it was pretty funny, especially because it *did* look like a truck and a train! She very happily told her babysitter today, "I'm a potty trained kid!!" And everywhere we go these days she tells every single person in response to them saying anything to her, "I'm going in a airplane with my mommy and daddy! In a month!!" usually followed by segueing into the tale of the three little piggies and the wolf and the sucker that she got at the bank yesterday . . . . She's really funny lately. It's funny too because she often calls us "my mommy" and "my daddy" or "my mom" etc., which is funny because she addresses us that way. As in, "I want a cracker, my mommy!"

I had a root canal today. This stupid tooth has been soooo sensitive for so many years, even breathing cold air really hurts it, so after getting over the hump with the last root canal and surviving it, I was actually really excited get this root canal, get it over with, and not be in pain anymore and be able to maybe chew on that side of my mouth for a change! DH is so funny because after I got home he's like, "wow! you're so happy and energetic, you're just glowing! maybe I should go get a root canal too!"







The dentist and his assistant told me it was totally necrotic and nasty inside, so I'm glad I just gave up the denial and admitted that the tooth was a goner and had it done!! I like my dentist--some days he's a little bit impatient and short on the bedside manner, but I'm willing to deal with it because they are otherwise nice and I really feel like he's more skilled than my previous dentist. With my previous dentist every time I had any work done I felt like I'd been run over with a truck for days and had lots of tooth and mouth pain . . . with this guy it's much smoother and I really haven't been having any pain or sensitivity on any of the teeth he's worked on, even from the root canal.

I made an awesome green smoothie tonight--we are drinking it and all loving it! The recipe is roughly as follows:
Three handfuls of baby spinach
About 3 leaves of romaine lettuce
About 2-3 cups of fresh (as in not from concentrate, although I didn't juice it myself) orange juice
Juice of 2 limes.
Handful of ice.
It is soooo delicious!!! You can barely taste the spinach (the lime juice really brightens the taste up and makes it tangy) and it's a beautiful mint green color and it's nice and frothy in a tasty way and we both think it tastes incredibly much like an orange julius! DH thinks it's the best smoothie yet!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Kavita, Ella sounds so much fun.







And you sound like quite the little bundle of energy, or are you still on some fun drugs from the dentist?









Rowan's been very entertaining lately too. The other night DH was paying some bills online, and Rowan asked him what he was doing and he said "Paying bills", so she said "Can I have some?" and he gave her the stub off one and said "ok, go pay that bill at the Mummy Bank". So she brought the "bill" over to me and said "I need to pay this bill!" and I said "ok, do you have some money?" and she did the home-alone cheek-slap and said "Oh no! I forgot my wallet!!!" and somehow I managed to not crack up and I said "oh dear. what should we do?" and she said "How about we pretend some money?" and THEN I lost it, laughed my butt off and told her I wish that worked at my bank.

And then yesterday there was the whole "I want pig snouts. Will Uncle Ashley feed me pig snouts?" thing that was pretty hilarious for a while until I actually got her some headcheese and she didn't like it because there was parsley in it. But maybe I'm biased... I thought it was weird that the guy at the charcuterie *didn't* laugh at a toddler peering in the display case asking "Are there snouts in there?" To me, that's just funny.

I don't know where her fascination with snouts (especially eating them) came from - I swear it wasn't me!

Gotta go deal with poop now. Good times. I *wish* I had a potty-trained kid.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kavita* 
It's funny too because she often calls us "my mommy" and "my daddy" or "my mom" etc., which is funny because she addresses us that way. As in, "I want a cracker, my mommy!"

That is so funny because we have become hey mommy and hey daddy.

"I want a drink of water, hey mommy."

"Spin me around again, hey daddy."

Sooo cute and funny.


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## Gunter (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Hey speaking of tofu, where did Gunter go??? We haven't heard from her in a long time.









This made me laugh out loud! I miss you all. Yeah, we are just living in the love bubble soaking it up. SO busy and so little time to use two hands to type. and, as for eating these days...we're locavores as much as possible and as much as we are home to cook/prepare food! we just did the "farm tour" in our area where we toured a bunch of farms. we're planning a garden and have friends coming on may 3rd to help us plant it! woo hoo, finally putting all that space to good use back there.

I logged on here for the first time in a long time to ask for a birth doula for someone. I got a call today but am just not wanting to go to a hospital birth right now and be away from my babes. i better figure out pumping soon, eh?

babes are great. you know, normal challenges of transition to two stuff for me. a lil hard on ez at times but she is so brave and so friggin cool, as a person in general. i am totally drunk on the smell of a babe. good enough reason alone to wear her in a sling all day, every day.

i am showing jewelry at the LLL fundraiser this weekend. my first time doing that outside of etsy. so , i am stoked. i sold 2 necklaces at a doula conference but none on etsy so far. loving getting to do that though.

not going back to attending births with the MW just yet. still attending our monthly meetings but feeling a bit too early to be away. got a busy fall coming up though with 4 good friends who are preggo and all planning homebirths! two of them miscarried in the past 6 months so i am super happy for them to be preggo, again at this point! I get to attend all of them, hopefully.

much love all around, ladies! as i have time, i will try to re-connect with you all here. you are in my thoughts and i long for your advice on a daily basis just don't get to get on and ask it. rest assured, i do have good support IRL to help me through life as a mama, thankfully.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hallooooo Gunter! Good to hear from you!

Just a quick add-on - Rowan doesn't use "my" she says "mine". It makes her speech sound occasionally quite biblical. "The sun is in mine eyes!" "Hold mine hand, mummy". Is it wrong that I don't correct her because I think it's cute? It's not like anyone has difficulty figuring out what she's trying to get across.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Just a quick add-on - Rowan doesn't use "my" she says "mine". It makes her speech sound occasionally quite biblical. "The sun is in mine eyes!" "Hold mine hand, mummy". Is it wrong that I don't correct her because I think it's cute? It's not like anyone has difficulty figuring out what she's trying to get across.

Oh my freaking goodness that's so cute. I wouldn't correct that either.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yep, Skye does that sometimes too. I love it







Alarmingly, though, my daughter has gone back to calling her nose a snout








Sorry I haven't been around too much-I've pretty much lived on ravelry the last few days because there's a big sheep and wool festival coming up this weekend, and I'm going shopping







. Good times







- this is with my birthday money, btw.
Oh, and Steve got a job- did I mention? He's going to be full-time at his placement school from July 1st


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

The cute factor is high. I wouldn't correct it either








Helen, I am quite jealous about the sheep & wool festival. Will you be posting info/pics on what you buy so I can live vicariously?

Does anyone else have a little one who has just changed sleeping habits? Keagan had been getting up at 6am every day and for the last few days it has been at least 8am (not going to bed that much later - maybe 15 minutes). And yesterday he took a 3 HOUR nap!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

He's probably growing lots, Susannah. Has his appetite increased too? Rowan went through a similar thing a couple weeks ago - she's just coming out of it now, I think - sleeping like a little log and eating like a little vulture. This morning she wasn't hungry for the first time in a LONG time - she only ate a slice of bacon and some berries, instead of a big bowl of oatmeal, some berries, some cheese, and some cucumber like she normally does







Then she ate the cucumber in the car, but overall, I'm definitely seeing a decrease in her appetite. She didn't eat a ton last night for dinner either, and not much of her bedtime snack. (Good thing too, I was starting to think I'd have to boost the food budget.)

This morning I started paying more attention and I think Rowan uses "my" to refer to objects that are hers, but "mine" to refer to body parts. When we were going down the stairs she said "Hold mine hand" but then halfway down the stairs she said "Where's my penguin?" so either she's distinguishing types of ownership, or she's growing out of it. Hard to say.

Helen - hee. Snout. I just like the word. And yay for Steve's job!!!! Does that mean you're staying in Swindon for the time being?


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Spughy







Yes. The next big move is scheduled for summer 2010, but we're considering moving out to Shaw. There's now a lot of kids in that school who are travelling over from Pinehurst, though.

Susannah, there will be extensive pictures. I think there's going to be less animals than last year because it's now an independent event rather than an add-on to the smallholders festival, but there is so. much. stuff. Seriously, all my favourite dealers are there- English organic merino, BFL (and naturally dyed BFL roving. Squee!), handpainted cashmere, and Steve has offered to buy me a drum carder for my birthday. I am SO excited, I can't tell you. The goal is for me to be selling there next year, if I get the dyeing business going strong by then. I'm aiming to do the whole etsy thing, I think, rather than an independent website.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
He's probably growing lots, Susannah. Has his appetite increased too? Rowan went through a similar thing a couple weeks ago - she's just coming out of it now, I think - sleeping like a little log and eating like a little vulture. This morning she wasn't hungry for the first time in a LONG time - she only ate a slice of bacon and some berries, instead of a big bowl of oatmeal, some berries, some cheese, and some cucumber like she normally does







Then she ate the cucumber in the car, but overall, I'm definitely seeing a decrease in her appetite. She didn't eat a ton last night for dinner either, and not much of her bedtime snack. (Good thing too, I was starting to think I'd have to boost the food budget.)

His appetite hasn't increased. In fact, Allison quite frequently worries about his eating (or lack thereof) when it comes to balanced diet, etc. Oh, and scratch that thing about him sleeping longer. He's been up starting at 5am for the last three days now. Sooooo tired. Ugh.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Susannah, there will be extensive pictures. I think there's going to be less animals than last year because it's now an independent event rather than an add-on to the smallholders festival, but there is so. much. stuff. Seriously, all my favourite dealers are there- English organic merino, BFL (and naturally dyed BFL roving. Squee!), handpainted cashmere, and Steve has offered to buy me a drum carder for my birthday. I am SO excited, I can't tell you. The goal is for me to be selling there next year, if I get the dyeing business going strong by then. I'm aiming to do the whole etsy thing, I think, rather than an independent website.

I can't wait to see pics. I took a look at your blog and I love that the boys are learning to spin


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Hi gunter! Thanks for checking in and I hope things continue to go well with your lovely family.

We had a nice visit with friends and family in BC, and I even fit in two job interviews. We'll know more later this week. DH's book events were terrific, and everyone complimented Neela on her amazing ability to sit through long poetry readings (and nobody criticized the fact that I kept a stash of food in my purse for her noisier moments







). We also met my cousin's baby who is 4 1/2 months old and the only other child in the family. Neela loved him, and wanted him to sit on her lap non-stop. We also hung out at the beach, took the little harbour ferry and Saturday morning I got to go for a run BY MYSELF along the seawall. I have only run alone two other times since Neela was born, so it's a wonderful treat. I saw five great blue herons, a cormorant and lots of different ducks









Now we just have to weather the bumps that seem to go along with the readjustment from vacation to home. Our whole bedtime routine/situation needs some serious work so that I don't spend hours of frustration with a whiny overtired kiddo most evenings.

I hope the wool festival was amazing, Helen. We did the black sheep gathering here last summer, and I was thrilled even as a novice knitter, non-junkie.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Mel, I hope you hear soon on the job front! Pity you had to go back though because the weather today is starting to actually feel like spring









I just got Rowan to go to down for her nap WITHOUT A BOOBIE!!!! Yay! And she went nearly 3 days without nursing over the weekend - from Thurs. aft to Sunday morning (I wasn't responsible for naps those days







) She's giving up her morning boobie, pretty much on her own - sometimes she asks, but by the time I've gone to the bathroom she's forgotten about it. So I think we might accomplish weaning without stress, even though it may take a few weeks. That's ok.

My sister was here on Saturday and we had a good, if short, visit. Aside from that nothing much is new!

Susannah, sorry the sleep thing didn't last.







I know how much THAT sucks.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Thought some of you might enjoy this article:
http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=92

No major news here. Apparently my daughter knows my cell phone number! I was on the phone with someone and they needed my number to call me back . . . I told them "it's xxx-" and the next thing I knew, Ella was announcing the last 4 numbers! I never taught her that intentionally, she has just probably heard me on the phone giving out my number and has memorized it! I kind of flipped out, I was so suprised! On the negative side of that, she also dropped the f-bomb yesterday.







What nice timing, slightly more than two weeks before she meets her paternal grandparents for the first time.







I told DH that if she uses any terrible language in their hearing I am going to shake my head and say that she picked it up from a babysitter who we have since fired.









Travel plans are proceeding apace. DH and I are a little frayed around the edges, but hanging in there. We still had a bit of gift shopping and returning a few items that I bought for myself or Ella without trying on that didn't end up fitting. I kind of freaked out and got really stressed yesterday, and got pissed at DH about us not having done certain things like asking his family members what they would like us to bring when I asked him to months ago, so that gift purchasing could have been done in a more bargain-conscious and slow and deliberate fashion, instead of this last-minute rush which is imposing financial strain at the time when all other expenses are piling up and creating a ton of work for me with going from place to place, which is not easy with a toddler. I just feel like we are throwing money at things left and right and it's kind of worrying me. We were not going to do antimalarial prophylaxis but now we decided that we really should--and that might be as much as 500 bucks each that I don't think insurance will cover. As a result of my yesterday's freakout about not having time to do what I need to do to prepare for the trip, DH said that he'd take Ella with him and go do the rest of the gift shopping tonight after work. Which he did, resulting in *him* being freaked out and stressed about it now! Anyway, I think I have things more or less under control at this point, and I'm trying to get things packed well in advance so that there won't be any last minute stress or suprises.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

OK, can I ask a wwyd question?

I had to go to the emergency dentist with searing toothache, and both kids came with me. On the way home (no work done, just antibiotics) Skye threw a major, major, major tantrum. Kicking, screaming, the works, just shouting no, mummy, no, mummy, no - you get the picture, right? I took her out of the buggy, calmed her down and then we got on the bus and she started up again (my fault- I asked her to move seats.) At that point a total stranger came over, sat on the seat next to me, leaned over so that her body was entirely between me and River and blocking me from Skye's line of vision and vice versa, said "It gets better, dear. Use a different voice" and at that point started talking to Skye who screamed louder.
WWYD?


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Well, under ideal circumstances I would have said "I appreciate your concern and I apologize for the noise, but may I please deal with my child myself? You are separating her further from me, and that is the root cause of all this so please move, if you would."

However, given the context of dentist, pain meds, etc etc I probably would have said something along the lines of "Get away from my child you pushy moose and mind your own business."


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I went with the old chestnut "I beg your pardon" in the end- but UGH! I was so angry.
Now, off to the parenting forums to see the post going "I was on the bus this afternoon and this mother was handling her daughter's tantrum really badly and shouted at me when I helped the little girl out"


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Spughy, I love your response















Helen. I have no idea what I'd do. Probably just sit there dumbfounded.


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## barcelona (May 1, 2006)

Ah, so much to catch up on! Helen, sorry that lady was so rude, and I would've been dumbfounded, too.

I've got another what would you do, situation, or how do you handle this (the source of trouble coming from my boy, not an outside party):

My mother in law is staying with us for a week, and after a few days, Finley starts to tire of her. Well, he expressed this the other night, when she came to sit with us, and frankly said







want you to go away. I said, Oh, Finley, that's not nice. That hurts Gita's feelings. Finley: (again) I want you to go away! Me, again, repeating above stuff. Then, Gita got up and said, okay, I'll go away, sulkily making her way to the other room. Finley, to me: she went away!

How do you handle this sort of embarrassing honesty from your wee ones? Did I handle it okay, or should I be more forcible, saying, No, Gita is staying here. We can't tell her to go away, etc?

Help!

Much more very soon. Am in the midst of the chaos of being hostess to her, and trying to keep up with the house and life.


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## MelW (Jan 13, 2005)

Helen, I'm usually too shocked by bad behaviour to have a great comeback at my fingertips. Then I think of a zinger minutes or hours later... I think you handled it well.

Barcelona, we've been working with Neela for a while to find more polite ways to ask people to go away or not talk to her (for a while she was yelling "NO HI'S" to any stranger who said hello to her). I think you handled things fine, but it helps us to give her the language to describe what she's feeling or what she wants. For example "You don't want to talk to or play with X right now. That's okay. You could go to your room and play with toys alone if you want, or you could cuddle with mummy and not look at her, etc.". I try to clarify what she wants/needs, too- is it more attention from me, time away from the other person, or ??? This doesn't always work, but helps guide her towards more "socially appropriate" ways of communicating her feelings. OTOH, I totally have the urge to tell visitors to go away sometimes, so it's kind of cool that our kids will do it for us









Spughy, congrats on the no-booby nap! I hope the transition continues smoothly!

We're having major re-adjustments from our trip. Multiple peed pants after no misses for weeks. And bedtime really needs to be adjusted back, since 10pm bedtime isn't working for our family. Though last night was 9:30, so hopefully we're making some progress.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Mel, sorry about the pee. At least you guys have the CONCEPT of peeing in the potty/toilet... I still get "NO NO NO NO NO" when I suggest peeing on the potty.

Barcelona -







. My mom's first visit this spring was a bit like that - Rowan seems to have an inborn sense of tact, so she didn't outright say "I want Grannie to go away" but she refused to have much to do with her. Much of it stemmed from just the weirdness of having someone else in the house. I would have a private talk with your MIL and let her know that she shouldn't take it personally, that Finley is going through a bit of a "stage" and she could help by trying to get down to his level and playing a bit - maybe not actually *with* him, but just try to be more accessible. And getting your MIL to read him books might help too. If's she's amenable to that... IME a lot of toddlers need grown-ups to take the first step in becoming friends, and the second, and the third...

If anyone's interested, I started a new blog about trying to get fit within the confines of my living room and my budget (and my life). Trying new stuff, ressurrecting old fitness ideas, losing the idea that I have to go to the gym to get fit, etc.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oooh, sounds like fun. We got wii fit last week- apparently, I have the body of a 48 year old. Yowch.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Wii Fit doesn't come out here till the end of next month, but I told DH that a certificate for a pre-ordered copy would make a LOVELY Mother's Day gift! Lucky ya'll that its already out!

Oh, and Ellie's response every single time I ask her if she's ready to go potty is, "Not yet."

Spughy, I'll be checking your get fit blog. I've never had a gym membership, but I'm pretty obsessive about working out. My current goal is 1500 minutes per month. (That's what it was last year and I made it every month, the year before that it was 1000 minutes/month.) I use my blog to keep track of my minutes and I used to list what I did for exercise each day, thinking it might help inspire other people to get in exercise minutes at home and often with kids in tow, but then I figured no one cared so I just list the minutes now.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Pardon my luddite ignorance, but what exactly is a wii fit? Whatever it is, I'm sure it doesn't fall under my definition of "no equipment"


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

A Wii is the latest Nintendo gaming system. Wii Fit is a new "game" that is all about fitness. There's a floor pad that hooks into the Wii and you do yoga/pilates style moves, pushups, etc on it and it such while the screen is giving instructions. There's also activities like putting the handheld control in your pocket and jogging in place or around the room while it keeps track of you. Nothing you REALLY need equipment for, but kind of like an electronic personal trainer. It also has some cool balance activities, too.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Ah, I see. Thanks. I don't think it's really my bag, but I can see how if you already had a wii it would be lots of fun.

I spent the afternoon purging... I got rid of about 40 lbs of clothes - mine and Rowan's - donated to Women in Need... ahhhh that feels good, and I can see the back of the closet!!! Last week I purged a bunch of kitchen stuff... slowly but surely the clutter WILL disappear...AND I found the duvet cover I'd been looking for







Next step: DH's clothes. It never ceases to amaze me how someone with so many unworn, brand new clothes in his closet can persistently look so scruffy. Sigh. Does anyone have any good ideas of stuff I can do with jeans that have holes in them and are unfit to wear? I'm not a fan of the patched look.

Must go convince the child that the poopy diaper she's sporting really does want to come off...


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Spughy, I'm making a rug with holey jeans and bits of washed uncarded sheeps wool at the moment. There's also a load of patterns for quilts made of old jeans around...
One of the most interesting things about the wii fit is that it's identified that my posture is squiffy and I carry a lot of my weight over to the right hand side- considering the problems I had with SPD, this is something I can use and work with. It's fun- you know- not a par on a proper workout, but better than sitting down playing Big Brain Academy with a bowl of popcorn.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Does anyone have any good ideas of stuff I can do with jeans that have holes in them and are unfit to wear? I'm not a fan of the patched look.

Must go convince the child that the poopy diaper she's sporting really does want to come off...

If you do a search in the sewing section of the Arts forum you can find lots of ways to refashion/reuse denim









Oh, and Keagan nearly _alway_s fights getting a poopy diaper changed.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I'm currently making a denim quilt, and it takes A LOT of jeans to make one. I bought 10 pairs of men's (pretty big) jeans at a local thrift store and luckily my mom had about 3 yards of denim fabric to supplement and I'll need that to finish it. And, its only a regular full bed quilt!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hmmm... we probably have 6 or 7 pairs of jeans that are unwearable, so maybe it will be a long-term project. I had thought of making a patchwork slip cover for our couch, as its current upholstery has suffered mightily at the hands and claws of the creatures - I doubt I would have enough for that, either, but at least I wouldn't need the second side as I would for a quilt. It would end up as the most butt-ugly couch in the country, I'm sure, but at least it would not have the gaping holes, spilling foam and shredded arms it has now.







Poor couch.


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## HoneyTree (Apr 5, 2005)

Helen, bless your heart! Your "chestnut" post made me chuckle twice. And Sarah, I continue to be in awe of both your mature and your snappy responses.

And Barcelona, Woody has been saying that certain people are "yucky." It's ridiculous and embarrassing. I usually counter with something like, oh, I'm sorry to hear that, because I simply ADORE so-and-so, or, she is a good friend to you, etc.

So.

This morning, oddly, I woke up nauseas. Familiarly nauseas. Not so much sick nauseas, more the lingering, ebbing and flowing kind of nauseas that means








: (!)

Therefore, I tested. And got two lines.

So mamas, please forgive my tentative request, but will you please hold the image of a big, pregnant me in your minds?














:







I am so just barely anything; I mean, like ten days! So I'm not making plans, just putting the picture out there, ykwim?

Whew.


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

Congrats!!


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HoneyTree* 
So.

This morning, oddly, I woke up nauseas. Familiarly nauseas. Not so much sick nauseas, more the lingering, ebbing and flowing kind of nauseas that means








: (!)

Therefore, I tested. And got two lines.

So mamas, please forgive my tentative request, but will you please hold the image of a big, pregnant me in your minds?














:







I am so just barely anything; I mean, like ten days! So I'm not making plans, just putting the picture out there, ykwim?

Whew.












































thinking of you and a belly baby!

love to the rest of you too.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Theresa







I got a nursing necklace from Brooke at Family Tree Glass studios as well (traded her for some longies, actually) and I'm going to keep that image in my mind whenever I think of you for the next 8 and a bit months. I'll just give you two thoughts: one is, do you realise how hard it is for the whole sperm meets egg, divides, divides again thing to happen? So many hurdles, every kid's a miracle.
The other? A baby is the most complicated object ever created by unskilled labour. FQ printed that quote (it's a dad's mag) and I like it- though I can't remember who said it first.

Fern, I still miss you, and you never take time to chat. I want pictures, dammit!


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

Hey you guys, we're over here now!!!


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## Awaken (Oct 10, 2004)

Ok, yes, I know it's May now but I'm just now getting caught up on April!

Nice to hear from you, Gunter!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Just a quick add-on - Rowan doesn't use "my" she says "mine". It makes her speech sound occasionally quite biblical. "The sun is in mine eyes!" "Hold mine hand, mummy".

LOL, I think it's hilarious b/c Ethan does it too! He says, "Mine eyes!" and it always triggers me to start in on "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord, he is tramping all the vineyards where the grapes of wrath are stored!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Oh, and Steve got a job- did I mention? He's going to be full-time at his placement school from July 1st









Congrats to Steve, Helen!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barcelona* 
My mother in law is staying with us for a week, and after a few days, Finley starts to tire of her. Well, he expressed this the other night, when she came to sit with us, and frankly said







want you to go away.

I thought the misplacement of smilie here was a little bit funny (







)

((((( Teresa ))))) Awesome news







Hoping for the best!

Off to find the May thread- hopefully I'll get in on it sooner.


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