# bedwetting teenager



## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

My nephew Nick is 13 years old and still wets the bed every night. He came to stay with us for a month last summer and while I was aware that he still had an occasional "problem" I was surprised to find out that it was every single night. At first I tried to respect his privacy and just let it be his issue to deal with. That turned out to not work out very well. Sometimes he would forget to strip the bed and wash the sheets right away in the morning, so we would be scrambling come night time for him to have clean sheets to sleep on (I only had one set of twin sheets at that time). And another thing, he had no pajamas and would sleep in his regular clothes, but even if he did wash the sheets he wouldn't necessarily put his clothes in--he would just leave them in a soggy pile somewhere (like on the hardwood floor) and then put them back on again the next day!!! His room smelled and frequently he kind of smelled too. The whole thing really stressed me out. I was mad at his mom for not taking better care of him, letting him have these bad habits. He's always been bullied at school, and it's no wonder since he goes around smelling like pee! I was frustrated with him for not seeming to care more about trying to stop. He knew about things like avoiding caffeine and not drinking huge quantities of fluid in the evening, but I would catch him filling up a 16-oz. glass of water or juice at 9 p.m. anyway! And I was frustrated with DH, who would complain to me privately about the smell and say things like, "He'll stop when he really wants to, he just doesn't want to," which I thought was uncharacteristically unenlightened of him.

I did some research on bedwetting and learned that the most current thinking is that it is almost always a sleep problem rather than an emotional or attitude problem. Kids who wet the bed at a late age just sleep very deeply and don't have the same cue to wake up from a full bladder that most people do. I really believe he can't help it. The only times he stayed dry were when I woke him up in the middle of the night, and he was really like a zombie. I had to pull him up out of the bed and walk him into the bathroom and tell him to pee. He would stumble back to bed and never remember it in the morning. Doing that was really hard on me, though, I was around 6 months pregnant and it disrupted my own sleep pattern like crazy--I would take an hour or longer to fall asleep afterwards. I kept reading about this one particular alarm that was supposed to be really effective, with a sensor that was attached to the underpants and an alarm that attached to the child's collar. It was $100 but I went ahead and bought it, thinking it would empower him to solve the problem. It didn't help. I think he mostly didn't use it, and I'm not sure why. I would go in his room after he was asleep and see it on the floor next to the bed. He went home for a visit to his mom one weekend and left it there, so we didn't even get much opportunity to see if it could help.

I asked my sister what she had done to try to help him and she said they had gone to doctors a few time sbut nothing helped. He was on a medication that worked in the beginning but then stopped working and gave him nightmares, so they quit that. He went to another doctor who recommended circumcision!!! And so she let it be Nick's choice, and he decided to do it (he was around 10). So now he is circumcised







but of course that didn't help.

Okay, sorry this is a book but I am finally getting to my question. He is going to be coming to stay with us again for at least a week and quite likely longer this summer. Since we never know how long he will be with us, it is hard to come up with a plan and stick to it. If he were going to live with us for a while, I would try some other things--like chiropractic, hypnotherapy, anything. But I am hesitant to try different solutions and then have him go back to his mom's house a week later and not stick with the new thing, and end up feeling like it was another thing that just didn't work. Also we are seriously broke and I just can't pay for that stuff. I feel like at this point the only thing I can do is treat the symptoms because I just don't know how to treat the problem. The one thing I am certain of is that I don't want him peeing all over the sheets every night. It's very inconvenient with the laundry, plus he does things like fall asleep with a book and then the book gets ruined. Several other things have been ruined as well. And the smell. I try to have compassion but it really stresses me out. I am wondering if it would be a horrible thing to buy some Depends or something similar and suggest that he use them at night. Would that even work? I don't know how much volume those are designed to hold. He is taller and heavier than I am, pretty much adult-size, so we are talking about a lot of pee.


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

I can totally sympathize with your dilemma. My almost-12 year old ds still wets the bed frequently. It can be very frustrating. There is a homeopathic remedy for bed-wetting, but I can't remember what it's called. I tried it and it didn't work, but dh has a friend who swears by it.

To address some of your concerns: Why doesn't he strip the bed or put his wet clothes in the wash? Most likely he is accustomed to his mother doing this for him. My own ds is the same way--and it's entirely my fault for picking up for him. I think he's ashamed and just wants to escape from his bed and his room and not return until it's clean and nice-smelling. My ds always goes straight into the shower after wetting the bed, so he doesn't smell.

For your nephew's visit, I recommend that you buy a mattress bad with a waterproof backing--then you won't need to worry about your mattress. Also, see if you can get your hands on some waterproof bed pads. There are disposable ones and washable ones--try a medical supply place. Place a pad in his bed each night. If he only wets a little then you could get lucky and have only the pad get wet.

There are disposable "bedwetting pants" for bigger kids. We bought these when we went on vacation, but they LEAK, and it's kind of humiliating for the child, so I do not recommend buying these.

Good luck.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Thanks for your response, daylily. We have the waterproof mattress pad. Thanks for the suggestion about disposable bed pads, that might help.

Unfortunately his mom doesn't really take care of things for him. When I am at their apartment it's pretty smelly. She just leaves it. It's like people who live with cats who can't tell their litterbox smells. She's used to it and doesn't notice. So if he leaves the sheets wet in the morning and they've dried out by night, he just gets back in the bed. It's utterly disgusting and he has no idea. He just thinks it's normal.

Obviously there are a lot of other issues here but this is the one that I have the hardest time knowing how to deal with.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Bedwetting can't possibly be the only problem here. It sounds like this child is neglected, like child protective services level neglected.

Also like he might have some serious issues that are either cognitive or emotional. I'm not a professional, I just know a lot of 12 and 13 year old children and I can't imagine one of them allowing himself to stink of urine. It's not developmentally appropriate. I get that there might be a physiological cause for the bedwetting, I'm just talking about how the child accepts it as normal.

Has your nephew been evaluated for special education services at school? What else is happening at home?

I feel so sad for him and so relieved that there is someone like you in his life who cares about him.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

I know it's shocking to most "normal" people but I don't think there is anything developmentally wrong with him. He has ADD but he's extremely bright and actually a very nice, pleasant kid to be around. Believe it or not there is a lot a person will accept as normal if they don't know different. I didn't brush my teeth for at least the first ten years of my life and it never struck me about there being anything wrong or unusual about my mouth, until I learned better. My parents just didn't teach me or care. I think my parents were definitely guilty of criminal neglect, FWIW, and CPS thought so too, but that's another story.

My sister is about a gazillion times more evolved and attentive than our parents were. I think she has some significant blind spots, but she's been a single mama to him since she was 17 and I think she tries her best. I don't overall think it is a case of criminal neglect. I have called CPS myself in her county and asked questions about what is neglect and this issue did not not their standard--it is more like, is the child being fed, does he have clothes, a place to sleep, does he go to school, if he is sick is he taken to the doctor, etc. I know it sounds so awful compared to what most people want for their own kids but I have really struggled with what would be the best situation for him and I honestly believe it is being with the mom who loves him, even with her shortcomings.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Can you talk about this issue with your sister? It sounds like you didn't have good models growing up. Maybe she needs to hear from you that this is an issue of concern so she'll take it seriously.

I'm so sorry that you grew up with parents like that. It's great that you and your sister are loving parents in this generation anyway.

I believe you that your nephew a nice kid and intelligent, but it seems like a pretty extreme thing, worth making a fuss about. The fact that a doctor thought that circumcision was even relevant blows my mind. I'm not particularly anti-circ, either--I just can't believe that was the response. It's such a socially devastating thing for him, that for adults to act like this about it seems really irresponsible.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

You know, the truth is my sister wet the bed herself until age 10 or so and did the same thing. Left the sheets to dry on the bed and then slept on them again that night. I don't think even I noticed how gross it was when we were kids, and I shared a room with her! I think she also believed he would grow out of it eventually, like she did. My father did some really awful things to her to *teach* her not to wet the bed, and I think she's really bent over backwards to not shame or punish Nick...just believing eventually it would work itself out.

I was also horrified about the circumcision thing, but what could I say after it was done? She told me she let it be his choice. I'm so mad at the doctor though.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow, it can be an inherited thing. it seems like my friends family has thi problem for like three generations. I don't have any suggestions with stopping it. it could just be a something he has to grow out of.

In the mean time I highly recommend a zippered matress protector of the vinyl variety. yeah yeah I know, vinyl bit htey are cheap ($5 or so for a twin) fail proof, and all you have to do is wipe it down with a little vinigar water. I also recoomend chux pads (you can order them from hoiomebirth suppliers and medical suppliers) Disposable and cover the whole section of bed.

I also reccomend setting some house rules and insisting that he follow them. This is a problem and it sucks that he has to learn to deal with it but he does. If you think no drinking after a certain time would help then no drinking. If he wets the bed he needs to get in the habit of stripping the bed and putting anything with pee on it directly into the wash and geting it started, showering and then making his bed all before he does anything else for the day. After a few weeks you helping him with this he should have the routien down pretty well.

You mentiuoned waking him up helped. Do you think setting a regular alarm clock to wake him up in the night would help? Perhaps if you went in and woke him up up with it for a couple of weeks he would then be conditioned to getup himself when it went off.

Also I think you can insist on certain things without shaming. Do you feel comfortable having a frank discussion about this with him. Simply explain, matter of factly that this is a problem and you are sorry he has to deal with it but deal with it he must. Here are some ways to deal with it (changing bedding, showering in the morning, always wearing clean clothes, cleaning up after yourself) and here is why (you might not be able to smell it but other people can, I don't want to always be cleaning up after you . . . ). I mean it isn't like he thinks you don't know. You might as well bring it all up once and for all, make an agreement on how you are going to deal with it and move on from there.


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

One more thing...

I've read that dairy allergies are a cause of bedwetting. You could try to keep him away from dairy while he stays with you. I tried this with my ds. It was weird--he went for almost 2 months without wetting after we majorly curtailed his consumption of dairy--but then started wetting again.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

lilyka, thanks for the suggestions. We are able to talk frankly about it. When I bought the alarm I demonstrated it to him by clipping the sensor to a piece of cloth and then dripping water on it with a dropper, so we could see what would happen while we were all awake and the lights were on! I wanted to make sure he understood how to use it and what would happen. I stressed that it was a medical problem so it would be clear I didn't think there was anything "bad" about him--just that he needed help waking up. He handled the conversation really well and was very interested in how the sensor and alarm worked. So I was disappointed he didn't end up making use of it.

I think I will buy the zippered cover you are talking about. We have a waterproof mattress pad with a quilted top but it has to be washed every time and it's a pain to get back on the bed. Vinyl will not be as comfortable but it will certainly be easier. I like the idea of chux pads too--if it stays on the pad we can skip washing the sheets.

daylily, that's interesting about the dairy. I think I'll try not having milk in the house when he comes. He's a big milk-drinker, and eats lots of cereal with milk too. I noticed last year that whatever I had on hand--juice, milk, soda--he would drink gallons of, but if there wasn't anything else he would drink plenty of water. Surely that's better for him.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

i have a teenwith this problem, It's very embarrassing, yet she isn't always as good about showering etc as you'd think a 13 yo would be.

It is not an issue for CPS or the school. It does not meanthat he needs 'services'.

It is a sleep problem. Plain and simple. Embarrassing, inconvenient, but not serious.

Depends are out of the question. How embarrassing.

Rules. Tell him he is expected to put all his clothes and bedding in the machine, every morning, before breakfast or tv. Remind him daily. He must, MUST take a shower, every morning. You don't even have to say why, just he needs to, he's a teen.

The alarm is supposed to be the best bet. We're looking for one now. (wanna sell one?) Go to your healthfood store, the remedies usually work for a short time, anyway. One of mine used it for only a few days and never wet again! I think it helped her to remember to not sleep so soundly.

Ask your sis to see about a script. THey've changed the medication and it works so well. THe boost to their self confidence is incredible.

And he can't smell it, cause he smells it all the time. Even if your sis keeps him clean, reminds him to bath,sees that he goes to school clean, it's hard. My kids would have friends over and not change their beds!

A big hug for him, and for you. This is very hard to deal with.


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Daria, it's interesting that your nephew eats a lot of cereal and milk. My bedwetting ds does the same thing. Cereal is the junkiest food in our house and ds has gotten into the habit of eating it when he doesn't like the healthier meals I provide. We gave up on restricting dairy. I wonder what would happen if I stopped buying cereal and he had to eat a more varied diet?


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

daylily, that would be an interesting thing to try! It was a learning experience for me that I couldn't expect Nick to consume things like cereal or soda in moderation--I had to just not have them in the house.

Red, thanks for your feedback. I really appreciate that you can relate to my experience.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Now my question with the Depends is that yes, I get that it seems embarassing, but somehow it seems like it would be less embarassing to just have one thing to throw away, than all that laundry to wash and the bed to strip and re-make. And I wouldn't expect Nick to think of or ask for something like Depends, but maybe it would make the situation easier on him. I mean he wore Pull-ups every night until he outgrew the largest size, you know? That must have been easier. But I feel like I don't necessarily know the most sensitive way to offer or suggest it.

Red, what is the newer prescription that works better? My sister has health insurance now so she should be able to take him to a doctor again to try something new.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

We have the vinyl cover on our futon and it isn't bad. It was an adjustment but once I get used to it (It is dd bed, a futon, I can't imagine getting yucky stuff in that, but I amin there alot) it was not too bad.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

It's called DDAVP, it's the same med as the older nosespray, but it's in pill form, doesn't need to be kept in the fridge. You adjust the dose for the individual.

One other idea that might really work for you. Throw an inflatable mattress on the box spring, put your mattress away. When it get too nasty for a simple wipe down, just take the mattress outside, sponge off with dish or laundry det. and rinse with the hose. Let sun and air dry. Great in the case of sleepovers, etc. Get the Coleman, the cheaper one won't hold up to a teen.


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

We're going through this with my 9 1/2 year old son. We bought the expensive alarm thingy - and he slept right through it! The sound of it could seriously wake up the dead, but there's my ds happily snoozing away.

We've also tried having several alarms go off in his room at once. Again, he slept right through them. The only thing that "works" is my getting up at midnight and walking him (still asleep) to the bathroom. He never remembers this in the morning.

Of course, he never has caffinated drinks, and he doesn't drink anything in the evening. This routine has made no difference at all, however.

He refuses to wear the Good Nights, and frankly I don't blame him. We have the mattress pad, and the rules about clean up, and he voluntarily jumps in the shower right after he wakes up. (Sometimes he pees again after the midnight pee - this happens fairly frequently, actually).

We go to a traditional homeopath, and she tweaked his remedy last time, and wants me to wait 6 months before we do anything drastic - like take him to his pediatrician. So, we're giving it the 6 months. So far, 2 months have gone by and I've seen no change in his patterns.

Also - he rarely eats dairy products. He just doesn't like them much. So in his case, I don't believe that's the culprit. He just sleeps extraordinarily deeply.

I feel somewhat discouraged after reading this thread, because I keep thinking that if the homeopathy doesn't work - then at least the Western meds might give the guy a chance to sleep dry. Sigh.

He's also uncirced, and I can't imagine having him circumcised to cure bedwetting. What was the doctor smoking? As we know, there is a strong prejudice against not circumcising boys, and some doctors will find any excuse to correct the "mistake." Sheesh.

Laura


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Personally, if the doc said he was going to cut off part of my privates, I'd find that pretty motivating!







:


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, here is what worked for me:

I wet the bed every night until I was 10, and even up to age 14 I had infrequent accidents. It had nothing to do with how much I drank in the evenings, or with allergies, or with any other medical problem.

What did not work was shame and humiliation - things like telling me I wouldn't have any friends, wouldn't be able to go to sleepovers, wouldn't be able to get married, would have to wear diapers to school (it was not only a nighttime problem). Spankings did not help. Being grounded until I could stay dry for a period of time did not help. My mom had this other idea of giving me lots of fluids, then laxatives and enemas, and then locking me in the bathroom until I "produced." In spite of all that I often produced nothing, causing physical problems.

So that was when I lived with my mom...when I lived with my dad, he just didn't treat it like a big deal. He told me that every morning I should take a shower and throw my sheets in the wash. That's what I did, and I never heard a word about how I was abnormal or should be in diapers. Then he told me if I didn't wet the bed for a week, he would buy me a flashlight. It worked! Then he said go another 2 weeks and I'll buy you an alarm clock...that worked too! I lived with him for a few months and was dry the whole time.

Then back to my mom's, where it all started again. Although I think my dad must have talked to her - there were no more spankings, and I was told to wash the sheets every morning - I was still wetting just about every night. (This was when I was about 9.) She got me that alarm and sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't. But one smart thing she did was to get the school involved - she got them to allow me bathroom access whenever I needed it, instead of being told the bathroom was for use only between classes. I was allowed to just get up and leave the room whenever I wanted. Even at home I had been told I couldn't use the bathroom at certain times - not during dinner, not until all the chores were done - and that rule was dropped as well.

Then I was back to living at my dad's, and there were no accidents. 6 months later I was back with my mom, and there were only accidents maybe every few months. I never bothered to mention these to her, I just washed the sheets when she wasn't home. The last accident I had was when I moved back in with my dad for what was supposed to be "for good" and wasn't happy about it. I was 14. My stepmom just said "I noticed your bed was wet; is that still a problem?" And I just explained that I was upset before I went to bed and that it hardly ever happened anymore, and that was the last accident.

Unluckily for my mother, when I stopped, my little brother started! He was 8 and had never had trouble with bedwetting before. And it was even worse with him; he would urinate all over his whole room while he was awake.







: He said he was afraid to go downstairs to the bathroom.

So I think stress and emotional troubles really do play a role. When I was stressed, I had more accidents. When I was punished or humiliated, I also had more. When I lived in the more relaxed environment at my dad's house, the problem was infrequent or nonexistent. I was not even remotely toilet trained until age 5 and was sent to a special school for disturbed kids, and when I was there I immediately improved, but when it was time to go home I wouldn't use the toilet at all.

So the thing that helped me the most was when people didn't make a big deal of it and didn't dwell on how I was going to be an outcast forever. And of course if a kid is having troubles it's not necessarily the parent that causes them; there could be problems at school or with friends or anywhere else. Just ask!

The circ was a big mistake! I'm glad no doctor ever suggested that for me.







That guy should have his license revoked.


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

Greaseball,

I'm sorry your mother stressed you out so much over your bedwetting, and I'm so glad that you had an understanding dad who took good care of you when you needed it most.

I don't think, in my own son's case, that stress is the problem, though. He has never been spanked for any reason ever. We have never humiliated him, nor made a big deal of his bedwetting. He *wants* to take a shower after he's had an accident and voluntarily jumps in with no prompting from us. I do ask him to strip his bed and put the wet bedding next to the washing machine, but only just recently did this when he was big enough to do so. He doesn't seem to mind doing it.

He is homeschooled (unschooled), so he can go to the bathroom any old time he wants.

Our "discipline" methods around here are very gentle, and fall along the lines of family meetings, consensus decision making, win-win solutions, conflict resolution, empathic listening, etc. with the occasional PMS-induced rant from mom, or the occasional laying down the law from Mom or Dad, especially when safety is an issue.

In other words, my son is not stressed in any way. And he still wets the bed. I really do think it is sleep-related. He doesn't seem embarrassed about it yet, and has gone to sleep-overs, but I think as time goes on, he'll feel more and more self-conscious about it.

Still crossing my fingers that the homeopathy will work!

Laura


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## wildbozmommy (Feb 18, 2004)

Has he seen a pediatric urologist??

My 10 yo DS had problems for many years. One day he was having pain in his penis, which prompted me to take him to the pediatrician. The pediatrician recommended a specialist and we had many tests done. He goes to Johns Hopkins here in Maryland once a month to the Pediatric Voiding Dysfunction Clinic.

I won't bore everyone with his medical history, but ADD does play a huge role in his physical/mental/emotional development.

I would highly recommend a pediatric urolgist. You just never know what could be causing this.


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

This is hard for me to admit too--but I will. I wet the bed till I was 14.

I also had no allergies, emotional problems (other than being stressed out about the bedwetting!) or urological problems.

I went on a medication when I was 10 that worked like a dream (I have no idea what it was, and when I asked my mom she does not either







: ) until it was time to go off of it. I suspect it was a hormononal medication. Did you know that a hormone is in charge of us holding our urine at night? I was surprised to learn that, but did some research on it as an adult.

I also have had other hormone problems in my life--I needed fertility meds to get pregnant, and went through a very early meno in my 30's. I think for me it was all tied together.

Anyhow, I also got the spankings, humiliation, and the Alarm box from Sears. None of them worked. I had the ultimate motivation to stop--I was often invited to slumber parties and wanted desperately to go. I often did go, and would force myself to stay up all night, but there were 2 vivid memories that I had where I fell asleep and wet my sleeping bag. Oh my goodness--how horrible!! Bribes also did not work for me (my mom actually promised me a horse--something I had been dreaming of all my life--and I still could not do it!)..

I was a very clean, normal looking girl. I got straight "A"s in school and loved to read and play the flute. So this was not some kind of cognitive or emotional problem I had...and certainly not a case for abuse or CPS to be called. But I am sure I did smell badly when I first woke up in the morning--as did my P.J.s and sheets and mattress. I had a dry night only a few times a year till I was 14.

Finally I suddenly just stopped wetting. It was like a light switch being thrown on--I just stopped.

Now my 7 year old has the same problem, and I thank God for Goodnights!!! Those big night time pull ups are a great thing for her. They do hold every leak--and work great. She even went on a sleep over, and no one knew she had it on. She took the old one home in a large ziplock bag I packed for her, and no one was the wiser.

I personally think Depends would be fine--I wish I had that when I was younger. You could ask him how he feels about it. And yes, they will hold with no leaks. That is what they are made for! I worked in an old folks home one summer during college and over half our residents wore them. You may too some day!! They did not find them humiliating--waking up soaked with your own urine is humiliating...not using a product that prevents it. They are a blessing.

I agree a good urologist may be in order, but other than that he may just need to grow out of it. The urologist we saw for my daugher was not surprised when I told him I wet till 14--he said it is much more common than you would think. My mom wet till 12, and her mom did too--so I know it is hereditary.

Hang in there,
Lisa


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I read that one medication used actually prevents children from reaching stage 4 sleep, so they are more likely to wake up when they wet. I don't know if interfering with sleep is such a good idea, though.

My dh also wet until age 10, and he does not describe his childhood as abusive or stressful.

I read about one man who wet until age 25 and then just spontaneously stopped. I guess that's what always happens - it never goes on forever - and the age at which people will stop is different.

Does anyone know if it's true that if you wet the bed, your children will too?


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

Hey Greaseball,

When I saw the pediatric urologist for my daughter he said that the medication I was probably on was a hormone called desmopressin acetate (DDAVP), a synthetic drug that is similar to the body's natural antidiuretic hormone. The initial treatment usually lasts for three to six months. The problem is that often the problem returns after the child has stopped taking the medication. Some children can use DDAVP to stay dry on an as-needed basis, such as when the child is away at summer camp or at a friend's sleepover party. It did not mess with my sleep in anyway--actually, I think it made me sleep better when I was on it--and like I said worked great from the very first pill. I was dry as a bone while on that medication--but after going off my problem came right back.

Yes, bedwetting is hereditary. Here is what I found:

Genetic (hereditary) factors - If both parents wet the bed when they were younger, three out of four of their children also will have bed-wetting problems. If only one parent did, this decreases to slightly less than half and to one out of seven if neither parent wet the bed when he or she was younger. Recently, researchers have pinpointed chromosome 13 as the home of the bed-wetting gene, and further research continues in this area.

Here are the causes:

Hormonal factors - Under normal circumstances, the body's level of a hormone that decreases urine production by the kidneys (antidiuretic hormone) rises during sleep and causes the bladder to fill more slowly. In some children who wet the bed, this nighttime rise in antidiuretic hormone does not happen as expected. Therefore, the amount of urine made remains the same as it was during waking hours, so the bladder continues to fill as much as it would during the daytime.

Other factors - Some children with prolonged nighttime bed-wetting may simply have smaller bladder capacities compared with their "dry" peers.
Although the specific combination of factors varies from child to child, the end result is the same. In a small number of cases, primary nocturnal enuresis arises from a purely medical problem, such as a physical defect in the child's urinary tract, a neurological problem related to the spinal nerves or brain, or a urinary-tract infection.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Lisa, thank you very much for sharing your perspective. I had exactly the same thought as you, that it would be MORE embarassing to wake up with wet sheets and clothes than to have a fairly discreet way to deal with it. Thank you for sharing that.

I think the issue for Nick is how deeply he sleeps. There certainly has been no shortage of stress in his life







, but he seriously can sleep through anything. Last summer a new house was being put up across the street and they were jackhammering for half an hour starting at 7 am. It was unbelievably loud. He snoozed right through it.

That's when I started to lose faith in the little AA-battery operated alarm


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Addressing the hereditary issue: my parents are both fairly light sleepers, as am I. I never wet the bed past any point I can recall. My three siblings were all very deep sleepers and wet well into childhood. If our parents had a similar problem in their childhoods they definitely never acknowledged it. So that doesn't really fit Lisa's statistics, but maybe it's recessive?


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## mom at home (Nov 19, 2001)

This thread is scaring me. I didn't realize this could go on until 12 or 14. My 8.5 yr old dd night wets often. Sometimes she'll stay dry for a week or two and sometimes she'll wet every night for 2 weeks. She's also a very deep sleeper and rarely ever wakes up at night. I don't know if this is the reason or not. She usually stays dry if we take her to the bathroom before we go to bed, but not always.

The whole thing is such a pain. She is similar in terms of not caring if her bed smells like pee. Yuck! Sometimes she rinses off in the morning, but often doesn't. I've never noticed that SHE smells, though, and I'm pretty sensitive to the smell. I know she'd like to stay dry, but she's usually not superconcerned about it. We've never made a big deal about it, but I feel so badly for her because I know the sleep over thing will get harder and harder.

It was interesting to read your stories.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Sorry the thread is scaring you, mom at home. I don't know what the statistics are on the age when kids typically grow out of it. I do recall reading somewhere that 2% of adult males wet the bed. From my own experience with my family members, if my son were wetting past age 5 or so I don't think I would be comfortable with trying to wait for him to grow out of it. I feel like I would want to be pretty aggressive with trying different therapies and seeing a specialist early on. I don't want my son to go through a childhood of avoiding sleepovers and camps. I also feel like in a way it is so habitual for my nephew that he is resigned to it, and I think that makes it harder to overcome.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Just a note about the wet-stop alarm. We used this with my oldest when he turned 6 and had never made it through the night without having an accident.

He is a deep sleeper and the alarm did not wake *him* up, but it sure woke us up (it's as loud as a smoke detector going off).

For the first week my dh and I would hear the alarm and wake my ds up and take him to the bathroom. *He* has to be the one to *stop* the alarm and it was hard for him.

Once the alarm was removed the child needs to try to urinate in the toilet even if he has already completely emptied his bladder in bed. You are just trying to set up in the child's mind the connection between having to urinate and waking up to pee in the toilet.

The first week I was frustrated and felt it would never work. We were waking up some times five times a night with him.

But, by the second week my ds would start to wet, the alarm would sound, we'd wake him up and he'd finish urinating in the toilet. By the third week he was completely dry.

This was six months ago and he has only had one accident ever since then.

You might try this with your nephew again, but he *must* wear it *every night all night* and you will most likely have to help him wake up and go to the bathroom and change into dry underwear. If it is not used consistently, it is not going to work.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Daria, you seem to come across in some of your posts, as believing that if we parents had done the right thing when our kids were younger, this wouldn't be happening. I don't think that's a very fair assessment. You also mentioned in the beginning that you didn't feel your sister was doing enough.

I have had my daughter to a few doctors, all of whom told me the same thing, which didn't work. I've tried many homeopathic rem., and feel we've been as aggressive as possible without making my daughter feel even worse.

This condition is, to the best of my knowledge, a sleep disorder. (in my daughters case, it's combined with a small bladder)

Please don't assume we're not doing what's best for our kids, based on how you feel your nephews parents are doing. This is an extremely difficult issue and we need all the support we can get.

Was it in this thread that there was a link to a site about Michael Landon having wet the bed into his teens. He amde a movie about it.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Oh gosh Red, I don't feel that way at all, and I'm sorry it came across that way. I'm not sure how much to say about my sister in general, other than I think she has done the best she could in general as a single parent, and unfortunately that best is not enough to be what Nick needs. Currently Nick is not in her custody but I don't want to go into a lot of detail about that.

In my last post when I said I would want to be more aggressive with treatment, I did not mean that in a negative way toward what my sister did or didn't do. I think she believed he would grow out of it, and that this was a reasonable thing to believe, since she outgrew it eventually herself. But at the same time I have read about these alarms and other treatments on other message boards and it seems like parents have more success with these if the child is younger when they start trying. Who knows, maybe it works with these younger kids because they were the ones who were most likely to outgrow it anyway. But when the alarm arrived for my nephew and came complete with a little calendar and stickers for "wet" or "dry" to show the child's record of "accomplishment" it really did not seem age-appropriate for a 13-year-old. It seemed to just reinforce the humiliation that this was a problem only very small children would have. I guess it is a combination of these things, plus what I said above about wanting sleepovers and camp to be an option, that make me feel like I would not be comfortable with waiting for my own child to "grow out of it."

Again, I am sorry I offended you, and I really did appreciate your sharing your own experience. I know it is not the parents' fault when this is going on.


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## isadorable (Jan 1, 2002)

Because I have company and really shouldn't be online right now, I haven't read all the replies, so please forgive me if someone already mentioned this.
My sister wet her bed till about twelve, with all of the alarms and shrinks and behavior mod. used. Suddenly at 30 it started again. She immediatly went to the dr. who told her she has a rare kind of diabetes, hormonally affected. Had it been noticed as a kid, she could have been spared the mental stress and grown another 2 inches, as it tends to stunt growth. she's 5'2". I don't remember the name of the diabetes, but if anyone is interested, I will find out from her. It has something to do with water not being absorbed by the body, (she drinks a lot (and is thirsty) but the body doesn't process it properly.)


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isadorable*
My sister wet her bed till about twelve, with all of the alarms and shrinks and behavior mod. used. Suddenly at 30 it started again. She immediatly went to the dr. who told her she has a rare kind of diabetes, hormonally affected. Had it been noticed as a kid, she could have been spared the mental stress and grown another 2 inches, as it tends to stunt growth. she's 5'2". I don't remember the name of the diabetes, but if anyone is interested, I will find out from her. It has something to do with water not being absorbed by the body, (she drinks a lot (and is thirsty) but the body doesn't process it properly.)

Interesting...I am only 5'1, an inch shorter than my shortest parent! My mom is 5'2, my dad is 5'9; my other siblings are 5'9, 5'3 and 5'2. (For those who haven't read the whole thread, I wet nearly every night until age 10 and had sporadic accidents until age 14.) Maybe there is something to this diabetes theory...although I find I am often not thirsty and have to remind myself to drink. If I didn't remind myself I could easily go all day with only 2 or 3 glasses of fluid.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

I think you are talking about Diabetes Insipidus?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *from article linked above*
In addition to increased thirst and urination, other symptoms can include irritability, poor growth, nocturnal enuresis (wetting the bed at night), and if your child is not able to drink enough fluids to keep up with the large amount of fluid being lost from excessive urination, then your child may develop dehydration.

A simple urine test can be done to rule this out.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Guess this is just a sensitive area for me, I didn't mean to read anything into your posts. I too have a sister, one who has no kids, but sometimes like to offer me advice on how I could this correctly...







I thnk I'm sort of relating this to my own situation. Ok?

I did tyr MANY things when my dd was young. Her identical twin outgrew it a year and a half ago. My son wasn't potty trained til he went to poreschool but never wet the bed??? Kids make ya nuts.

I know what you mean about the stickers etc. You can make your own reward system though, if you think it might help. I think this is soo sad







, but my dd used to say, "Yell at me Mom, make me scared. I won't do it if I'm scared." I don't do 'mean' on demand though. I tried once, but honestly. It just wasn't real.

I just want you to know that I wasn't real comfortable with them just 'growing out of it' either! But when nothing works, what else is there? And you have to walk a fine line. You don't want to put so much focus on this aspect of a childs life that they feel it's more than it is.


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## isadorable (Jan 1, 2002)

Yes, the link to *Diabetes Insipidus* (thank you dotcommomma!) describes what my sis told me she has. She wishes my parents had known to ask to check for it. I don't know how much they knew about it 25 years ago. My advise would be to get this ruled out before trying everything else, because if your child has it, the rest won't help.

Makes sense that th op's nefew would drink lots of fluids before bed (although not allowed), as thirst seems to be an issue.


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## jacksmama (Sep 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Red*
Rules. Tell him he is expected to put all his clothes and bedding in the machine, every morning, before breakfast or tv. Remind him daily. He must, MUST take a shower, every morning. You don't even have to say why, just he needs to, he's a teen.

Daria: I agree with Red that you must just approach your nephew and let him know straight up what the rules are. You talking to him about it, while it might look like it's stressing him out, will really do the opposite. Once he knows the rules it will take the pressure off of him. He won't have to figure out how to handle this by himself, because you'll have set a guide (rules) for him to follow. I lived with a friend and her family my Sr. year in high school. It was so stressful for me because I didnt know what they expected of me. I got in trouble several times because I did things that were perfectly normal at my home but not at their home. The other thing I whole heartedly endorse is keeping on him about the showering thing. He needs you to do this. I know it's a pia but again, it will take the pressure off him and people won't talk about him behind his back!

Lastly, you rock as an Aunt.







Really. It's people like you who add to the lives of the children around them. I know because I had aunties and mentors like you when I was a kid. The impact they had on me was tremendous.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

What my mom did was sandwich the bed. She used trash bags (only thing available) but you can use a shower curtain or tablecloth from the dollar store. I see nothing wrong with frank tackful discussion about house rules, you make a mess you clean it (This is not only about bed wetting, just talk about it and mention about bed wetting).

She would put a trash bag down, then a sheet, then another trash bag, and then another sheet. It was relativity easy to strip a layer at night. Throw it by the washing machine. I was doing this at 5-6ish. I would think that having something larger to tuck in would be easier and stay put better.

I would seriously have him read Dr. Sears link on bedwetting. http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071200.asp

Withholding water at night can cause issues with dehydration and constipation so make sure he is tanked up during the day. You might want to discuss with him his color of urine, except for the first morning pee it should be clear to a light yellow. If not he needs to drink more during the day way before bed so his body does not go into overdrive at night.

Does he also have issues with BM? Does he go daily? Does he have accidents/leave skid marks in his undies? If so look into chronic constipation being a cause of the problem. With the intestines press against the bladder because they are over full can cause a lot of mixed signals.


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## daria (Feb 11, 2003)

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I will pass on the info about diabetes insipidus. My father is diabetic as it happens. It's true that Nick seems to me like he drinks a lot of fluids. It's interesting that the treatment seems to be that same medication that is sometimes prescribed for bedwetting (DDAVP).


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## Indigo73 (Aug 2, 2002)

I was a bedwetter well into my preteens. My last public accident was actually in high school. I have a 2 fold issue - over active bladder and I sleep deeply. I actually fell out of a bunk bed in the 2nd grade and broke my arm, not waking til morning.

I appreciate how matter of fact my folks were. I always stripped my own bed and my routine after an accident was start a load of laundry and then jump into the tub, I was doing this by the time I was 5.

Even with my issues I was active in scouts - camping and other overnights - I rarely had accident while out though, I don't think I slept as deeply as I did at home.

I still have "close calls" now.


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## julie128 (Jan 9, 2003)

My brother wet the bed until he was 14. I wrote a paper on it in college. I haven't read all the other posts, so I don't know what anyone else said. That's really weird about the circumcision. I never came across that in my research. Anyway, the buzzer thing is ultimately what worked for my brother. Of course, your nephew would actually have to use it for it to work. It can still take a few months, and it will wake up the whole house. If I were in your shoes, I would require him to use the buzzer every night, to immediately strip his bed in the morning, start a load of laundry for his bedding and clothes, and take a shower. Also, see an allergist. Sometimes bedwetting is a symptom of an allergy. My brother noticed that when he ate eggs he was more likely to wet the bed. Check your library for books on bed wetting. There will likely be several. One more thing. Teach your dn to do kegels when he pees in the daytime. Have him stop the flow 3 times for 3 seconds each time. He probably won't be able to do it at first, which is probably part of the problem. Good luck.


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## mom at home (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daria*
Sorry the thread is scaring you, mom at home. I don't know what the statistics are on the age when kids typically grow out of it. I do recall reading somewhere that 2% of adult males wet the bed. From my own experience with my family members, if my son were wetting past age 5 or so I don't think I would be comfortable with trying to wait for him to grow out of it. I feel like I would want to be pretty aggressive with trying different therapies and seeing a specialist early on. I don't want my son to go through a childhood of avoiding sleepovers and camps. I also feel like in a way it is so habitual for my nephew that he is resigned to it, and I think that makes it harder to overcome.

Daria, It's harder to deal with when your in the situation than you might think. We have thought alot about how to deal with the situation. We tried the chiropractor who felt confident that it would help. But it takes a lot of sessions and it got too expensive. She went to the doc for it a couple weeks ago. My dh took her so I didn't talk to the doc myself, but he felt the best solution was to outgrow it. The medication options were something I would NEVER consider for my child. One was an tricyclic antidepressant and the other was something with a lot of side effects (can't remember the name now). I would never medicate her for this. I would never take tricyclics myself, let alone give them to an 8 yr old!

Anyway, it's not something we don't give thought to. We think about it alot and it's a continual concern to my dh and me, it's just that there aren't any straight up solutions, esp. if you're not up for medicating your child.


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## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

I also reccomend cutting out the dairy and that will help with constipation also

I would buy the largest goodnites for him, they should fit a 13 yr old unless he is heavy set and just tell him to wear them. They can hold a lot of urine. The good nites website has a message board & info on preteen bedwetting that is really helpful.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Teach your dn to do kegels when he pees in the daytime. Have him stop the flow 3 times for 3 seconds each time.
I've heard conflicting information about this. People say it can train the bladder not to empty all the way.


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## misfit (Apr 2, 2003)

I wanted to post an update because we are making progress with ds.

To recap, he is 9-1/2 YO, heavy sleeper, and was wetting almost nightly and sleeping right through it whether he used a Goodnight or was allowed to wet the sheets. It was pretty much impossible to wake him up to pee.

Recently, I realized he was motiviated to try again so I talked to him about what we could do to get him up in the night. We decided together that I would try turning on the bedroom lights. It worked. I was able to get him up and he used the bathroom, but he was ornery. The next day he was wet but much less than usual.

So I talked to him the next day. He didn't remember what had happened but we agreed on some things I would say to him to motivate him so he wouldn't be so nasty about it. (He told me to say, "Remember that you want to start wearing underwear to bed?"). This also worked, he was even easier to wake and less grumpy.

We've continued to improve the process. He is a little weirded-out by how he doesn't remember waking in the night but I have been able to consistently get him up night after night. Sometimes he is still a little wet but sometimes he is dry. This has gone on for weeks.

The crowning moment (ironically) was the day that he got hurt, and was in some pain that night. We decided not to wake him because it was so hard for him to sleep. That morning he was dry -- but had to pee like crazy when he woke up. We realized that he was learning not to pee while sleeping.

Meanwhile dd (who was having trouble in a follow-the-bad-example way) has gone weeks without Pullups, and has only wet the bed about once a week, also due to my getting her up to pee on her own every night.

So far so good. I've stopped buying Pullups and am cutting bck on Goodnights. Their rooms smell better, they smell better, and they are so proud of themselves.

And all because I turned on the light.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

misfit - have you tried a wet-stop alarm with your ds? He sounds like a perfect candidate since you are able to keep him dry by waking him up. The alarm would help him learn to wake himself when necessary.


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## misfit (Apr 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dotcommama*
misfit - have you tried a wet-stop alarm with your ds? He sounds like a perfect candidate since you are able to keep him dry by waking him up. The alarm would help him learn to wake himself when necessary.

We haven't. I decided it wasn't a good option for us. 1) Our general experience is that noise alone does not wake him 2) Other people who sleep close by DO wake easily and DON'T fall back to sleep easily -- so we would end up with a houseful off tired grumpy people with no improvements for DS.

The challenge now is that it is getting steadily harder to get him out of bed once I wake him -- I think he is too tired and the novelty wore off. We are going to make sure he gets to bed on time and goes to SLEEP instead of goofing off in his room, see if that helps.

The good news is that he is now completely dry about 1/3 of the time and the rest of the time it is minor (instead of copious wetting every night like before).


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## julie128 (Jan 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
I've heard conflicting information about this. People say it can train the bladder not to empty all the way.

I don't think this is the case. At the end, you would just push out what's left in your bladder. Anyway, I have some time here, so this is something that came up when I was researching for my paper. During the day time, when dn has to pee, have him wait for 5 minutes before he goes to the toilet. Gradually, have him wait longer and longer until he can wait 15 minutes. This will increase his bladder's capacity. He should also be kegeling when he pees and drinking a lot of water during the day time. Studies show that doing this and nothing else will stop bed-wetting for about 1/3 of people.

There is a story in Chickensoup for the Chiropractic Soul of a girl who stopped wetting the bed with chiropractic.


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

I found this discussion very enlightening. I do have a few things to say about the habits of some of the bedwetters presented here. I'm actually quite shocked at the lack of embarrassement and responsibility of these kids, especially at 13 and 14! It doesn't matter how you are raised by your parents - at some point, from being in school or watching TV, a kid that age should have enough sense not to leave their bed soaking wet all day or to wear peed in clothes. I just don't get that. Especially when the urine smell turns to amonia - and then the problem with rashes.

It seems to me this 13 year old kid just doesn't care and is used to his bedwetting. In other words it is not a problem for him. You can imagine an experiment where a child is raised and never potty-trained and no one ever fusses over the problem of bedwetting - it would seem like a normal part of life to the kid - UNTIL he views the outside world, unless he is living under a ROCK. So maybe something like this is happening to him - he is a bit sheltered and shy, so has no friends to be embarrassed in front of at sleepovers, no siblings to taunt him or complain of the smell, and no mother making a big deal about it. Seems he has accepted it. Aside from getting him circumcised, of course ?!?!?!

But to wet the bed of your host and leave your clothes and sheets there like that is just plain irresponsible, as is refusing or forgetting to wear the alarm. It sounds as if he is putting not only ZERO effort in trying to stop his problem, but also ZERO responsibility of the mess. Perhaps in a 6 year old this is okay, but not 13.

I would definitely have a talk with him about it. Show him how to work the washing machine and have clean sheets and clothes set up for after the accident, and towels for a shower. See if he at least has the responsibility to do what he must, and what I had to once do myself without instruction and in complete embarrassment and fear of being discovered. That that is lacking from him Icannot comprehend, uneless he has always wet and that is all he knows. In THAT case, who made the brilliant decision to take him out of diapers if he has never had a dry night? "You are a big boy now, so your reward is instead of neat diapers you get to wake up in a soaking wet bed!"

But I digress... I suppose I can't say all of this without knowing him or more about child psychology. We have all known "the smelly kid" in school, and the mature ones didn't make fun - but not all. Our whole family thinks that no family who can afford soap and water has any excuse to have their children running around smelling. The problem is, like smokers, whose own smoke doesn't bother them, kids who smell don't notice their odor. The "fresh air/scent" of those of us who don't smoke and bathe isn't powerful enough for THEM to notice - just the other way around.

Anyway, my real reason for posting here (if anyone is still reading) is to relate my own brief episodes with bedwetting as a teen. I was not a child bedwetter at all. And it only happened a few times, so PROBABLY my reasons are different from these other kids. What I remember triggering this believe it or not was a fear of wet dreams based on what I had heard from other kids. Go ahead and laugh, but I actually thought wet dreams would mean I would suddenly start wetting the bed again as a teenager. Well, sometimes your worse fears come true and I guess I sort of jinxed myself because I started having these dreams where I would be lost in labyrinthine public restrooms unable to find the "right" place to go and in the end peeing on the wall or something stupid like that. Luckily I would wake up dry - at first.

This might have uneventfully continued were it not for nocturnal emissions messing things up (not that they were bad dreams), but my first one happened when I was 14 (I'll never forget it) and since it was also my first ejaculation, I was unfamiliar with the sensation and so my dream interpreted it as - guess what? Urinating - albeit a very slow and peaceful sensation - after the "glow" of the dream ended I jumped awake cursing myself for "letting" myself wet the bed - of course, I discovered what had really happened. But my inability to tell what was going on in the dream is what threw me off.

I didn't have many wet dreams (unlike my son, but I'll post that concern separately) but they all more or less went along the same lines, with a few exceptions. What started happening was I would start having similar dreams and when I felt myself began to urinate I would wake up after a few seconds to find myself actually wetting the bed! Fortunately these seemed to happen on my back (while wet dreams happened on my stomach) and so what little urine left me just wet the front of my pajamas and a small spot on the sheets I was able to soak up with a wad of tissues. But the problem of not being able to detect the difference (within the dream) between a wet dream and really wetting the bed spooked me to know end - I wasn't in control! Luckily this only happened as infrequently as my wet dreams, but still enough to concern me.

And yes, there were a few heart-pounding mornings where I woke up after having relieved myself completely in a dream only to find I had actually done so. And believe me, my reaction was quite different than this kid discussed earlier.

From what I can tell I didn't have a medical problem. After a few years it simply stopped and never happened again (oddly, or tellingly, the accompanying wet dreams have stopped too). From what I read heavy bedwetters do so in deep Non-REM sleep. Any reported dreams of urinating or being in water happen AFTER when the cold wet sheets rouse you into REM sleep and construct an explanatory dream around it to wake you up (too late of course). I, on the other hand, woke up right away, whether I only began to wet or finished, judging by the temperature. I'm certain an alarm would have helped me.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer this embarrassing chapter from my past - either to gain interpretation or as help to someone who might have a son who started wetting the same time wet dreams should have begun.


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## Tatka (Aug 3, 2004)

It's difficult to admit but I wet my bed too until an age of 10 or 11!

It was very difficult for me as I absolutely couldn't control it! (I didn't have ADHD or other mental problems and was the best student in class). Also it was difficult as my parents used to send me to the overnight camps (it was very popular in USSR and good too) for month or two every summer since I was 7!!

I think it was there where I started to hide my dirty sheets...(They usually changed them every 1 or 2 weeks).

My 12 years old son also used to be wet every night until 11, and nothing could've done about this!!! It was kind of difficult to calm my husband as it was unusual and embarrasing for him.

I don't think you can do anything about this! Belive me ..my parents didn't have to punish me (although they were frustrated sometimes) to make me feel sorry. I sure wanted to get rid of bedwetting even more than them!


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## Soogie (Feb 7, 2002)

I was a frequent bed wetter until I was 15. My parents tried all the "tricks"...the wee-wee alarm (slept right through it!), no drinks past 6pm, waking me at midnight to use the bathroom, medication. But there was no magic cure. I was just one of many in my family that suffered from nightime bed wetting. My 2 cousins, both grandparents, and almost all of their siblings suffered. The one thing my parent's never did was shame or punish me for wetting the bed. I was humiliated all by myself, I certainly didn't need anyone else to add to it. Of course, it frustrated them, because nothing they did was helping. I was the kid that could never go to girl scout camp or go to sleepovers. Regardless whether or not your nephew "accepts" his problem by not bathing and leaving soiled clothing and sheets lying around, I can guarentee you this condition embarasses him, and by ignoring it, maybe he hopes it will just go away and nobody will notice. Someone who has never wet the bed as a young adult, doesn't know how hard it is to deal with. It sucks! I used to cry myself to sleep everytime I slept over my grandparents house, wearing an adult diaper so I didn't pee their bed.

And for me, bedwetting literally stopped overnight. I went from a 4-5 night/week wetter to none. Something in my body changed.

I know it's frustrating, but try to tackle this issue with your nephew by being sensitive and supportive and not making a HUGE deal out of an accident. Simply tell him where you expect him to put his clothes and sheets in the morning, and have a clean stack by the bedside each night so that if he should wake up in the middle of the night, he can strip the bed and have a nice, dry warm bed.


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

It is interesting to hear about people who stop wetting suddenly when all these drugs and alarms and methods did nothing. In my own life I can definitely tell that my sleep habits have changed. When I was very young I was a deep sleeper. My parents would laugh to see me all twisted up in the sheets in the morning. More than once there were tales of them trying to awaken me at midnight to watch a show I requested to see and I would awaken the next morning with no memory, just a story of how I'd sit there staring at the alarm and them yelling at me to shut it off so I don't wake up my sisters and hitting me on the head with a brush!

I sometimes had horrible nightmares coupled with what I later learned was an awareness during sleep paralysis which was utterly terrifying to the point I thought I was dying unless I could move, breathe, scream or wake up. Never before had I felt so helpless - and the dream "aura" lingered after awakening, I could still feel the vibration and buzzing sounds as my heart pounded, that if I lay back down and closed my eyes I would helplessly be "sucked" back into the dream. But that all ended when I put my mind to dealing with it through concentration and overanalysis to the point where I'd laugh when I woke up thinking "that wasn't scary at all!" or snapping awake by reflex the first moment things started to get uncool. Since then I believe the experience has made me a lighter sleeper, but I sleep well and I haven't had a nightmare in over 20 years.

During adolescence I continued to have some pretty wild dreams but no nightmares. As I said I also began having the erotic variety, but they only lasted a few years as I also unwittingly managed to "conquer" them also to the point that any dream that was too stimulating would awaken me early in the script. So now my worst dreams and my best dreams were no more.

Since then it has been pretty much ho-hum punctuated by a week of insomnia every few years, usually triggered by me trying to take a daytime nap (a deadly endeavor I avoid at all costs - I just can't go to sleep knowing it is daylight and others are awake bustling about, and if I DO somehow nod off after a few hours trying I feel horrible afterwards), or witnessing the ease which others seem to "mockingly" fall asleep in my presence.

My strangest dream was when I was maybe 5 or 6 and I woke up and saw over my sister's bed an outline in light of a baby angel with wings folded and in a fetal position praying silently. As I was about to get my voice to speak out to it it suddenly vanished! Now I'm more jaded and write off this "vision" as nothing more than an REM dream image lingering. Ho-hum, right?

Well my whole point in all of this that due to hormones and sleeping habits and environment and a million other things I can see how things can change overnight. To everyone else it doesn't seem as dramatic, but I suppose when the morning evidence is as obvious and inconvenient as a wet bed, to suddenly wake up dry would be a dramatic and obvious difference, even when nothing of the dreams or actual wetting is recalled.

The trick is: how do you precipitate such a seemingly untriggered and involuntary change?


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## Skim (Jan 2, 2004)

You've received tons of great information and advice from previous posters. As a post-bedwetter, I'd like to encourage:

1. his responsibility for washing sheets, cleaning bed/floor, taking a shower, etc. when he pees in your bed as your guest. I did this at home and if I spent the night elsewhere and never was shamed for it because I just took care of it. He is definitely big enough to do it all. My parents used a vinyl mattress protector my whole childhood and I was glad for it.

2. talking with him honestly without judgment or trying to solve his problem when explaining the house rules about washing sheets

My bedwetting seemed the result of very heavy sleeping, where I would wake just as I peed, often dreaming of peeing on the toilet. Although my ped. prescribed a placebo that worked until I found out... I didn't grow out of it until I was 18, and then it was only rarely. I did have an accident at night after dd was born, but I attributed that to newborn sleep-deprivation and weak kegels!

I had no idea it was inherited, and now wonder if my dd will inherit this as well. Since I'm adopted, I have no idea if either of my parents struggled with bedwetting.

Thanks, too, to all the other ex-bedwetters for sharing your experiences!


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

My 12 yob (Jakob) wet the bed nightly until a year ago. He also has ADHD. People with ADHD have a higher incidence of bedwetting than others.... I read somewhere that 75% of people with ADHD have problems with bedwetting. I believe that bedwetting past the age of six is actually considered a symptom of ADHD when trying to diagnose.

Anyway, once we realized that we were in it for the long haul, we gave up and put him in GoodNites. They didn't always work; sometimes he would wet more than once a night, and the underpants could only hold so much. But, whether the GoodNites leaked or not, he had to shower every morning. Not only does pee smell, but it's really not good for your skin. If his bed was wet, he was responsible for stripping the bed and bringing his sheets and wet pajamas to the laundry room by the time he was five. At six, it was his job to wipe the plastic sheet with a wet cloth and spray it with Lysol. At about age seven or eight, it was his responsibility to put sheets back on his bed. He was not allowed to sleep on the couch or the floor, even with a GoodNite, unless there was a bedwetting pad or trash bag or something under him. He did wet on our couch once. He also wet (though the GoodNite) on an airplane. Luckily, most of it got on the blanket he was sitting on instead of the seat.

We never tried an alarm. You could drop a brick on his face and he wouldn't wake up.

He takes Wellbutrin for his mood problems and the ADHD. His ADHD is not really under control. A little over a year ago, his psychiatrist suggested Strattera to try and manage his ADHD a bit better. We decided to try it. The starting dose is 18 mg, and it gradually goes up until you reach the therapeutic does of 40 mg. We never made it that far; in the higher doses, it made him a nervous wreck. But.... he stopped wetting the bed that first week. We considered that it might be a coincidence, but when we discontinued the medication, he started wetting again. So he now takes 18 mg of Strattera for the bedwetting. It also helps him regulate his sleep patterns. He no longer stays up half the night with a million thoughts running through his brain, and it's no longer like pulling teeth to get him out of bed in the morning.

On a side note, we tried DDAVP (the medication for bedwetting) a couple of years ago and it didn't work for us.

I've noticed that Jakob is much less concerned with matters of hygiene than his younger brother (9). He would go days without showering or brushing his teeth if he were left to himself. I'm sure that if I weren't so particular, he would have smelled like pee a lot, too. He would have had no problem with getting in a stinky bed at night, nor would he have cared that he was stinky. The 9yo (Adam) wet the bed only once in a blue moon until about age six. Horrified, he'd be up in the middle of the night to shower and get clean sheets. He also cares if his hair is messy.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

I just wanted to add a quick note. I see a lot of people mention that a wet-stop alarm won't work because it won't wake the child. In most cases this is true, since kids who wet the bed tend to me deep sleepers. However, the alarm will wake *you* and then *you wake up your child*, have them stop the alarm and go try to pee in the toilet.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Have you done this with success? Just curious.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Yes. With my oldest when he turned 5. You can read more details about our "beeper experience







" in one of my first posts on this thread.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Well, I'm skeptical.









Not because I think it can't be done, but because I don't think it would have worked for _my_ child. He has other issues besides ADHD, and does not wake well. He can be very ugly and hateful upon awakening if he's not ready, and although we never used an alarm, I did try just waking him at around midnight or so to use the bathroom.

Often I just gave up because he would NOT wake up. The few times he did wake up, it resulted in a meltdown and flat-out refusal to leave the bed. Tantrums that wake up the entire house (and sometimes neighbors) were not worth it for me.


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

"I see a lot of people mention that a wet-stop alarm won't work because it won't wake the child. In most cases this is true, since kids who wet the bed tend to me deep sleepers. However, the alarm will wake you and then you wake up your child, have them stop the alarm and go try to pee in the toilet."

Well this is just silly for a number of reasons:

1. It disturbs YOUR sleep.

2. It makes the respnsibility of waking the child up yours and not the child - who want to stop wetting more?

3. Unless they are 2 feet away from you, by the time the alarm wakes YOU up and you scramble out of bed and into his/her room it will probably be TOO LATE. Technically, by the time the alarm goes off it is already too late because the flow of urine has begun, and unless the bladder is super full, the whole process will take what? 30 seconds? Can you make it to his bed that fast? At best you'll stop the last few drops, and what good does that do.

4. Are you even sure you can wake the child at this point from this deep sleep? Can a child throw a "don't wake me up" tantrum WHILE they wet?

The alarm is supposed to train the kid to recognize the warning signs of having to urinate, and so those signs go unnoticed, the actual sensation of urinating goes unnoticed, the alarm goes unnoticed, and according to some frustrated parents physically shaking the child goes unnoticed.


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

Here's another crossover post concerning my son's non bedwetting problem (emissions instead) -

I appreciate the various pad advice I've gotten which I didn't think of (in those products).

But I briefly entertained the thought about these wet alarms and pondered if they made them with buzzers with vibrators, you know, like an option on a cell phone. Maybe the sensation will wake up some kids that sound won't.

But whether it is a vibrator or an alarm that wouldn't be good at camp where it would basically let everyone there know something has happened, so could these alarms be fitted with headphones to keep the incident private? Expecially in the case of wet dreams, I don't even think it would be a good idea for the house to wake up to realize he's had another one, and since they occur during REM sleep, which isn't deep sleep, it should be relatively simple to wake him up.

From what I can tell vibrators and headphones aren't currently marketed options, but I have to be honest and say I haven't done much research into it at all. I believe others have and can possibly bring me up to date.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Hmmm. . .I feel like some of you may be taking my post as criticism and it is not meant to be. I'm just saying to anyone who might think of trying it - don't not try it because you think your child won't wake from it and therefore it won't work.

I'm just sharing my success story and hopefully encouraging others who have children that don't want to wet at night anymore to give it a try. I was absolutely amazed that using it could take a child who never had one dry night into two weeks later being a child who never wets the bed. I also know many other parents who have had similar successful experiences with it. Of course there will always be exceptions to the rules and nothing works for every child.

For the record, my child doesn't wake well either. We tried just waking him several times a night ourselves and it did result in full-blown tantrums and such. Also I'm not saying that waking him with the beeper was a big joy either. When we'd get him awake he'd be totally disturbed by the noise and cry asking us to make it stop - etc. . .but hey who said parenting was all about fun and convenience for the parents? I would not have forced my child to do this - but he wanted to start being dry at night and he wanted to undertake this challenge, even though it sucked at times.

Quote:

1. It disturbs YOUR sleep.
Yes it does. It was a sacrifice we were willing to make as a family to help our child achieve his goal. Nursing my baby every night disturbs my sleep too, but you know what? I do it anyway.

Quote:

2. It makes the responsibility of waking the child up yours and not the child - who want to stop wetting more?
It makes it both our responsibility. It was an agreement we made with him to help him. Since you have had first hand experience as a bed wetter - If your parents could have helped you by sacrificing a few nights of their sleep wouldn't you have wanted them to?

Quote:

3. Unless they are 2 feet away from you, by the time the alarm wakes YOU up and you scramble out of bed and into his/her room it will probably be TOO LATE. Technically, by the time the alarm goes off it is already too late because the flow of urine has begun, and unless the bladder is super full, the whole process will take what? 30 seconds? Can you make it to his bed that fast? At best you'll stop the last few drops, and what good does that do.
Too late? I think you are not understanding the point of the alarm. It's not that the alarm is going to wake you before you wet. The first few times the alarm is going to go off and the child is going to be soaked by the time you get there. But the plan is for the child to wake up (or be woken up if necessary), have them stop the alarm by themselves and then go stand in front of the toilet and try to pee. The child is learning to make the connection: I need to pee - must wake up and go to the bathroom. By the beginning of the second week with my son the alarm would go off and he would #1: wake up to the alarm himself and #2 would have only peed a little and would be able to go to the bathroom and finish.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Here is a quote from the wet-stop directions - maybe this will clarify it better than I did:

Quote:

The Parents' Role with Bed-Wetting Alarms
If your child doesn't awaken immediately to the sound of the buzzer, he needs your help. You may need to help your child every night for the first 2 to 3 weeks.

When you hear the alarm go to your child's room as quickly as you can. Turn on the light and say loudly, "Get out of bed and stand up."

If that doesn't work, help your child sit up. Wipe his face with a cold washcloth to bring him out of his deep sleep.

Only after your child is standing, remind him to turn off the alarm. By all means, do not turn off the buzzer for him. Your child has to learn to carry out this step for himself.

Make sure your child is wide awake and walks into the bathroom before you leave him. If necessary, ask him questions to help awaken him.

Your goal is to help your child awaken immediately and get out of bed when the buzzer sounds. Stop helping him as soon as he appears to be able to wake up and get up without your help. Going to bed with the radio off, going to bed at a reasonable hour, and using a night-light can help your child respond faster to the alarm.


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

"Since you have had first hand experience as a bed wetter - If your parents could have helped you by sacrificing a few nights of their sleep wouldn't you have wanted them to?"

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If anything my goal was to desperately try to CONCEAL these incidents! Then again, in my case the accidents were sporadic so it wasn't already public knowledge - and certainly at that time I would be horrified to learn that they knew or furthermore, gave me an alarm that announced to everyone in the neighborhood of my accidents.

Don't take my criticisms of the alarm seriously - my situation, my son's, and yours are all completely different. Besides, I never even used an alarm before and just know how it works theoretically. Now I know how much more involved the parent must be, so I wonder if the alarm's often reported failings is a result of those directions not being faithfully followed.

As I said, in my case the wettings were rare or even incomplete - though no less horrifying to me - and I did everything to hide this from my parents. I suppose if it happened nightly I could not hide it and the cat would be out of the (wet) bag. With an infrequent problem like mine I doubt the alarm would have worked to TRAIN me, even though it would wake me up right away, since my problem wasn't deep sleeping (these incidents always seemed to happen towards morning). I think I was able to sweat through the cleaning up better than an alarm would have done, betraying me to everyone or at least arousing suspicion.

I have to say though this is all hindsight because I never even considered an alarm back then nor heard of one. As for my son, it would only be useful if there were a "privacy" setting, like a vibrator of headphones, since his problem is different and need not and should not involve us. I could imagine nothing worse than having a nocturnal emission and waking up from those wonderful images and feelings to hear an awful alarm and witness my parents hovering over me.

And I already considered the relatively small quantity and short duration of an emission compared to wetting the bed - of course an alarm wouldn't prevent it - HOWEVER, if it is true that there is a lengthy "arousal" phase consisting of steady drops of pre- fluid, then waking up from that would be sufficient prevention.

All theory, probably never to be tried. I've resolved to allow him to grow through the experience, which hopefully becomes more pleasant and less frequent, at least by next summer where he is brave enough to go back to camp.


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## dotcommama (Dec 30, 2001)

Quote:

I could imagine nothing worse than having a nocturnal emission and waking up from those wonderful images and feelings to hear an awful alarm and witness my parents hovering over me.
Of course you wouldn't use it for nocturnal emissions that is something completely different from wetting the bed!


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## fatherSONokayHERE (Aug 9, 2004)

Yes yes, I know, sorry. There's a couple things going on here - I keep drifiting between these two topics which are actually in two different threads in this forum. Also I am brainstorming OTHER APPLICATIONS of products used for one thing because of a lack of information or support about the other. Finally, as I stated before, my original (personal) experience with wet dreams was very much so tangled up with confusion of and worry over wetting the bed - which transferred several nights into reality which, while during the dream, I was not able to tell which of the two possibilities were happening - that is to say, if I was that lucid at all in the first place!

I still stand by the idea that an alarm (if fitted with headphones) would actually work better and faster and without parent intervention at stopping wet dreams than it appears to be in stopping bedwetting - the intended use of the product. Will there ever be an awareness or demand for such a thing? Probably not. Hence: brainstorm...

Actually I wish I was able to offer some of you help in certain areas like I feel I'm asking for from you. But our kid was a dream and a piece of cake to raise and since my bedwetting was so sporadic there was no clear victory or method leading to victory that I could offer other than an out-of-the-ordinary attention to overlooked details, overanalysis of the situation, and utter committment to succeed by myself, seated in a holy fear of anyone else discovering the problem.

So that might be why I come off as holier-than-thou when I criticize a 13-year-old child who wets SOMEONE ELSE'S bed and leaves the sheets there, doesn't shower or bother changing his clothes - simply because I can't relate to behaving that way in that situation (even in my OWN bed if NOBODY knew about it) which leads me to judgements that they are somehow anti-social, irresponsible, or perhaps have some other mental or cognitive handicap.

Sorry - just as a teacher AND a musician I'm caught between the politically correct attitude of artists taking responsibility for the effects of their work on society, and the artistic attitude of not wanting any censorship since PARENTS should teach manners and control what they see and hear.

Not that that aside has ANYTHING to do with this forum!







Just an insight into my beliefs on certain things.


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