# The Terrible Two's can START at 18 months?!?!?!



## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Is this true in some cases? Nobody sent me the notice!!! I've been saying for the last month that my DD is acting like a 2 year old, and people have been giving me the







: face, so I thought DD was just being her precocious self. But then I read somewhere that the "Terrible Two's" is a misnomer, and that the independence, arguing, defiance and "no" behaviors can show up at 18 months as well. Why isn't this more widely said??? And did anyone else find they had the "Two's" show up early at their house? And if they come early, does that mean they'll leave early?









Faith


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Oh yeah. The second year.... ah....

-Angela


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## celia (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh my gosh I have an 18 mo. old too and keep thinking PLEASE tell me this is already the terrbile two's and its not going to get WORSE 6 months from now!







:

I feel your pain.


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

Yeah, I was relieved when I read in Happiest Toddler on the Block that the peak for the terrible twos was 18-24 months. Makes sense, too. That's when they don't have the verbal skills the most. Has been our experience also. Things calmed down a lot by 2.


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *celia*
.....PLEASE tell me this is already the terrbile two's and its not going to get WORSE 6 months from now!







:.

THAT'S exactly what I thought to myself!!!! Can you imagine if things were supposed to get _worse_ at 2?!?!?!

And part of the reason I went ahead and started following my daughter's potty training interest at 17-18 months, is because I thought if her behavior at that time was any hint of how difficult she might be at 2, then potty training at 2 was going to be impossible!!! I have no idea why people suggest children be potty trained at the same time period that is notorious for defiant and resistant, controlling behaviors. Right now, that just isn't making any sense. I'm sure mama's of older children can fill me in, though.

*How do people get thought the terrible two's??? And not kill their kids? LOL!*

Faith


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Terabith*
Yeah, I was relieved when I read in Happiest Toddler on the Block that the peak for the terrible twos was 18-24 months. Makes sense, too. That's when they don't have the verbal skills the most. Has been our experience also. Things calmed down a lot by 2.

Now that possibility gives me some relief!
I'll keep telling myself it can all be over by Christmas!









Faith


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

I have always loved age 2! I am happy to see my child make her wants known and expressing her independence. I don't view it as "defiant, resistant and controlling behaviors." I would imagine that mind set might set you up for some power struggles.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

when they don't have the verbal skills the most
Creating a picture board helps the child indicate what they want. 'drink, food, cat, daddy, park, swing, bike, bed, bath, specific toys or people, etc. Also having baby signs for "more, all done, hungry, full, nurse, tired, cold, etc." were a huge help for us.

I thought age three was much harder than age two. But, we didn't have autonomy struggles then, ds just wanted specific, exact preferences which were challenging to guess.

Is there some specific issue that is seeming to be harder than it used to be that you'd like to brainstorm?

Pat


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup*
I have always loved age 2! I am happy to see my child make her wants known and expressing her independence. I don't view it as "defiant, resistant and controlling behaviors." I would imagine that mind set might set you up for some power struggles.

Well, frankly I'm secretly enjoying seeing my daughter develop her personality as well. But let's be honest.......children at this age can not have everything they want. You don't have to do much to find yourself in the middle of a power struggle. Witness kids who don't want their mothers to speak to their fathers? What do you advise? Throw daddy out of the house? LOL!

Faith


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Creating a picture board helps the child indicate what they want. 'drink, food, cat, daddy, park, swing, bike, bed, bath, specific toys or people, etc. Also having baby signs for "more, all done, hungry, full, nurse, tired, cold, etc." were a huge help for us.

I thought age three was much harder than age two. But, we didn't have autonomy struggles then, ds just wanted specific, exact preferences which were challenging to guess.

Is there some specific issue that is seeming to be harder than it used to be that you'd like to brainstorm?

Pat

It's another person who mentioned the "verbal" frustration issue. My DD speaks in sign and has probably over 100 words at this point, so that one is not my issue. But really, I just wrote in because I hadn't known how to catagorize what I'd been dealing with over the last month, prior to reading that the Two's start at 18 months.

If I had asked you a just two weeks ago-- I would have said "Why has my potty trained daughter just got off the potty, got onto the floor, put her butt up against the potty, peed on the floor and smiled up at me???" Or why is she telling me "No," running away and smiling at me when I ask her to come? But frankly, I've solved those two specific problems. Shes back to using her potty and coming most the time when called. However--- If I run into any others (and I'm sure I will) I'll let you know. (Unless you want to give a crack at why she starves herself to the point that she loses weight-- when she's already at the zero percentile. Or why she'll eat a food one day from one person, then refuse it from me the next day at home.)

Faith


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

There's a series of books by the Gesell institute, they're all called "your one year old" "your two year old" etc etc. Anyway, the one year old book said 18 mos is a lot worse than age two--but that age 2.5 also gets rocky. Anyway things will get better!!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
Well, frankly I'm secretly enjoying seeing my daughter develop her personality as well. But let's be honest.......children at this age can not have everything they want. You don't have to do much to find yourself in the middle of a power struggle. Witness kids who don't want their mothers to speak to their fathers? What do you advise? Throw daddy out of the house? LOL!

Faith

We did have this issue. We addressed it by having time together in the morning while dh was getting ready for work. I would spend some time with dh chatting while ds slept or played. We chat on the phone several times during the day to update about events and activities. Dh spends one on one time with ds when he arrives home while I work on dinner. Dh and ds do a nightime routine and dh and I have time together in the evening. Now, quite often, ds has eaten before dh arrives home so dh and I have a quiet dinner alone. We also have a date night each week. We send e-mails during the day too. There are a lot of ways to remain connected and not have complex conversations while a little guy is wanting mama or dada'a attention. Our son is older now and wants his own space as often as we do after having some engaged time. It changes.

I agree with Sunnysideup though that the words we use to think about our life, our interactions, our children, our spouses does impact how we treat them and how they react to us.

I believe that adults and children want to do what they want to do and power struggles are caused when one is expected to do something they don't want to do. We work to find solutions that are agreeable to both of us. We create solutions rather than struggle in our home. It is a different paradigm than either parent or child "can not have everything they want". We don't do/have everything we want. But we do not do anything we DON'T want. The key is not pushing for your own way. Children (and adults) do this when they only see one solution to meet their need. Instead, we look at the underlying needs to find solutions which meet everyone's needs. Anyone's first suggestion/solution isn't always agreeable to everyone. So, we keep looking for solutions which work for everyone. Working together is so much easier than struggling to get my first solution accepted.

Pat


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## KCMommy (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Creating a picture board helps the child indicate what they want. 'drink, food, cat, daddy, park, swing, bike, bed, bath, specific toys or people, etc. Also having baby signs for "more, all done, hungry, full, nurse, tired, cold, etc." were a huge help for us.

Ooo, I like the picture board idea! I am going to have to rig something like that up today for my 17 mo DD. Did you just have one big poster on the wall with all the pictures on it? And then ask them to point or "show" which she wants? This might work for us.

My DD had been taking me by the hand and leading me to the object of her desire until lately. Now she seems to be frustrated more easily and will often just stand there and shout. I ask her to "show Mommy" and offer my hand but this has only been working part of the time. So then I just start making suggestions. "Do you want food? Do you want to play outside?" etc Sometimes one of the options is agreeable to her, but I wonder if it is really what she was asking for or if I am missing the original impulse and redirecting her unwittingly. My mind-reading skills aren't up to par, I guess!

Sorry if I am changing the thread topic from OP.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KCMommy*
Ooo, I like the picture board idea! I am going to have to rig something like that up today for my 17 mo DD. Did you just have one big poster on the wall with all the pictures on it? And then ask them to point or "show" which she wants? This might work for us.

I would make it portable. You can even just draw the items. Photos would be easier for a child probably though. You could do a two-sided board, maybe with additions for when you are not home.

Quote:

My DD had been taking me by the hand and leading me to the object of her desire until lately. Now she seems to be frustrated more easily and will often just stand there and shout. I ask her to "show Mommy" and offer my hand but this has only been working part of the time. So then I just start making suggestions. "Do you want food? Do you want to play outside?" etc Sometimes one of the options is agreeable to her, but I wonder if it is really what she was asking for or if I am missing the original impulse and redirecting her unwittingly. My mind-reading skills aren't up to par, I guess!

Sorry if I am changing the thread topic from OP.
Yep, mind reading helps.







I watched for patterns of frustration and remembered *THAT* was what he wanted!: the BLUE cup, not the Barney cup.







: and on and on

and on and on.









Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

(Unless you want to give a crack at why she starves herself to the point that she loses weight-- when she's already at the zero percentile. Or why she'll eat a food one day from one person, then refuse it from me the next day at home.)
Our son is sensory adverse orally, so we have a lot of foods that he won't try or refuses after just one bite. Fortunately, he likes smoothies and I add all kinds of supplements to them: flax seed oil, magnesium, probiotics, B-vitamin supplements, calcium, Vit. C, protein powders, coconut oil, and fruit. He loves them. I also use protein powders in pancakes, waffles, cakes, muffins, etc. He loves fruits and vegetables, but like your daughter, it changes from one day to the next. He'll eat two apples in one day, then none for a week.







Same with asparagus, spinach, pork, chicken, beef, etc. He'll eat a huge portion but refuse it the next time it is served. I figure it all balances out.

I add calories by adding oil to the smoothies and extra oil to my baking. Ds likes peanut butter (before age two I'd use almond butter, less allergenic). It has a lot of calories. Avacados do too. Getting enough calories is an on-going awareness of mine because our son is so physical and active. But, sometimes he'll eat little for several days and then eat adult portions of an amazing quantity of food. We are more grazers than big meal eaters though ususally.

HTH, Pat


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

My son is nearly 15 months and already throwing toys, stomping his feet and screaming when things don't work out according to his grand plan. He spends a lot of time whining, wailing and generally unhappy. The hard part for me is to determine when he truly needs my comforting vs. his fussing just b/c I gave him the wrong pacifier, he has water and not the juice he wanted but can't have, etc. I also think that the napping changes they undergo at this age makes a diffference as well. Instead of several nice blocks of sleep to make things all better when they get rocky, now we're transitioning to just one mid-day nap and he gets so easily overtired if I don't get the timing just right on meals, sleeps and calm-down activities.

And not to scare anyone, but with my oldest I found that age 3 was far worse than age 2. Perhaps though that was tied to our cross-country move when he was 2 1/2 years old.


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## sweetpea333 (Jul 2, 2005)

oh yeah!!! even earlier in alot of cases !


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

My first dd went through terrible twos from 18mo to age 2 1/2.

I don't remember much, but if I have any advice, it would be to forget about teaching them any lessons and try your best to make them laugh when you feel a tantrum coming on. It's all about redirecting. And keep telling yourself that you'll look back on it all and either laugh, or not remember it. My dd did some pretty cute things during that period. She got into my makeup and by the time I found her, she had the bottom half of her face covered in lipstick and the top of her face covered in eye shadow. I was really impressed that she knew the general area to put the makeup on. There was also the time she drew an entire village of people on the side of my parents' house with a black Sharpie. I took pictures of it because I was so impressed with the detail. Just try to think about what you will think of the situation 5 years from now. It will get easier. And age 3...golden.


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## SomedayMom (May 9, 2002)

I am relieved to hear this from so many others too. DS will be 21 months this week and I keep thinking he's a 2 year old already







I work with kids and I have definitely been finding 2 year olds to actually be a whole lot of fun. My son is sweet and fun now, just in the "I'll do it, I want to walk, I want to run away from you and play hide and seek in Target kind of stage" I have to up my exercise routine to keep up with him


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## KCMommy (Jun 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I would make it portable. You can even just draw the items. Photos would be easier for a child probably though. You could do a two-sided board, maybe with additions for when you are not home.

Right, portable would be better. Because getting her physically to a poster on the wall would be tough when she is having a communication crisis. And it'll definately have to be photos for me, since my drawing skills are about on par with my toddler. I've made story books for DD with photos of her and family, so this could be similar except one big sheet.

Thanks again for the idea and for taking the time to make so many great posts, Scubamama. I lurk around and learn a lot by reading them.









- Krysta


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SomedayMom*
...... I have to up my exercise routine to keep up with him









You're right about that! LOL!

Everywhere I go, people keep telling me, "Wow! You've lost weight!!!"
I was totally unaware of this fact, as I typically wear most of my clothe over-sized. It's just my habit. But yesterday, after yet another friend mentioned this, I noticed that I had been pulling my brand new jeans up over and over again while we were at Barnes and Noble. Then again at the park. Sheesh! This one little kid has me running around so much I really AM losing weight, whether I realize it or no! LOL!

Faith


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
....I believe that adults and children want to do what they want to do and power struggles are caused when one is expected to do something they don't want to do. We work to find solutions that are agreeable to both of us. We create solutions rather than struggle in our home. It is a different paradigm than either parent or child "can not have everything they want". We don't do/have everything we want.

You said it yourself: *"We don't do/have everything we want."* I hope that you aren't imaging that we don't "work to find solutions that are agreeable to both of us." Because I certainly do. But that doesn't change the fact that at any moment my DD can try to pull a cup of hot coffee out of my hands. And if I try to keep her from spilling it on herself? We are in a _power struggle._ Sure, as soon as I can talk to her and find her her own cup of liquid, we won't be in one. But that doesn't change the fact that any parent can find themselves in a power struggle in an instant, because children can't have everything they want, all the time, AND stay safe.

This cup of hot coffee problem really happened to me at Barnes and Noble. I was stooping with a cup of coffee in my hand, and DD came up to me and grabbed it. I tried to let DD know I'd get her her own cup, but she wasn't trying to hear that-- she wanted her own way in that moment, and she was determined to get it. She pulled so hard, I fell off balance and the coffee spilled all over her. It was a sad way for DD to learn what "hot" really meant. But let it surfice to say we never had "power struggles" over cups of hot liquid after that.

Now if you and Sunnyside think it's wrong to catagorize interaction as a power struggle, I'll be happy to entertain your definitions or more positive discriptions. And if you've both found a way of avoiding all
"power struggles" of this type-- then fill the rest of us in. But otherwise, I think it's unfair to other parents to make it seem as if some people have found a way to eliminate all power struggles in their homes-- all the time. I think that's flat out impossible to do with small children, unless there's absolutely nothing you handle in your life that your child can't also handle.

Faith


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
Now if you and Sunnyside think it's wrong to catagorize interaction as a power struggle, I'll be happy to entertain your definitions or more positive discriptions.

I didn't say it was wrong to catagoize interaction as a power struggle--if that's what it is, that's what it is. I was reacting against your characterization of 2yo's as "defiant, resistant and controlling." I'm saying that if a parent thinks her 2yo (or 18mo, or 13yo) is being defiant, than she is more likely to just be resistant to "giving in," and less likely to see that there is a need or a want the child is trying to communicate-- less likely to want to work with the child to find a solution to the problem. That's when the parent sets the stage for the power struggles.

Quote:

But that doesn't change the fact that at any moment my DD can try to pull a cup of hot coffee out of my hands. And if I try to keep her from spilling it on herself? We are in a power struggle.
I don't really see that as a power struggle because I would imagine my child does not know the coffee could burn her--kinda like saving your child from an oncoming car. I think of power struggles as situations where the child's wants conflict with the parent's, and neither can see a mutually agreeable solution--parent wants child to sit in his chair until dinner is finished, child wants to play during dinner. I say that if the parent thinks the child is just not wanting to sit at the table because they are defiant, then the parent will be more resistant to finding a solution.


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## kate~mom (Jul 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *celia*
Oh my gosh I have an 18 mo. old too and keep thinking PLEASE tell me this is already the terrbile two's and its not going to get WORSE 6 months from now!







:

i remember thinking the same thing with dd - and my her second birthday, things were very different. the language explosion made communication much easier - she was still very certain of her opinions and wants, but more expressive and reasonable.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I heard once that children's behavior can often go in 6 month cycles. Where they go through a period of learning and boundary pushing and then a period of being more agreeable.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

defiant and resistant, controlling behaviors
I agree with Sunnysideup, this lexicon creates "power struggles" in the mind of the parent *against* the child's will. The child then must *fight* for autonomy over his own body and choices. I don't perceive our son's actions as defiant, resistant or controlling. I guess that is the key to avoiding "power struggles". Thanks for elucidating the secret to working together toward a common solution.









Pat


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

sunnysideup said:


> ..... I was reacting against your characterization of 2yo's as "defiant, resistant and controlling."
> 
> 
> sunnysideup said:
> ...


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## MissAbbyRosesMamma (Apr 28, 2006)

didnt read the whole thing but i can tell you my 10 month old threw 3 seperate tantrums today and it was all i could do not to laugh at her...it was obviously a VERY serious situation...


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

I really like The Happiest Toddler on the Block, for specific ways to deal with toddlers of different ages. There's also a Montessori movie from Michael Olaf called The Terrific Twos. It's pretty neat what they have them doing. I have found that Montessori is a great tool for toddlers. Even if I wasn't into Montessori for any other age group, I'd so totally buy into it for the toddler group!


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I agree with Sunnysideup, this lexicon creates "power struggles" in the mind of the parent *against* the child's will. The child then must *fight* for autonomy over his own body and choices. I don't perceive our son's actions as defiant, resistant or controlling. I guess that is the key to avoiding "power struggles". Thanks for elucidating the secret to working together toward a common solution.









Pat

Pat, I think a child will fight for autonomy over his own body and choices, regardless of whether the parent tries to allow him or her all the autonomy in the world, or not. Personally, I suspect if a child had no resistance in his or her life-- the child would go looking for some just to mix things up. (Witness my daughter asking me to pick her "Up....down....Up....down....and not being satisfied with my responses to her commands.) Are you really telling me that your child has never viewed himself as having to "fight" for his rights or desires over anything? Are you telling me he's never even tried to stop you from touching him or looking at him? Are you saying you've never walked over to him to put clothing or a diaper on, or brush his teeth or give him a bath-- and he's not "resisted?" If that's the case, I'm sorry. I don't believe that. Because how would you know the likes or dislikes of a pre-verbal child if he didn't resist some things???? And are you telling me your son never tries to "control" the things and people in his environment??? Incredible.

You see, I get what you guys are saying by saying you choose not to see your children's behavior in a negative light. And I get it if you are trying to say you choose not to describe your children's behavior in words that could be preceived as "negative." But I don't get it if you try and say your child never "resists" anything, never tries to "control" anything, and never "defies" you by doing the very thing you've asked him not to do.

On top of that, just because a person is bluntly honest about her child's behavior, doesn't mean she's set herself up for a fight. I think my child's behavior is normal and a part of a process. Some of it's amusing. Some of it's trying. And some of it is sad. (Like when she pulled hot coffee onto herself.) I'm working every hour of my day to try and help her through the phases she has to go through to grow into a healthy, happy adult. We aren't at "war." She's just doing her thing.

Faith


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissAbbyRosesMamma*
didnt read the whole thing but i can tell you my 10 month old threw 3 seperate tantrums today and it was all i could do not to laugh at her...it was obviously a VERY serious situation...









These things do make you laugh some times.

Faith


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## faithnj (Dec 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Terabith*
I really like The Happiest Toddler on the Block, for specific ways to deal with toddlers of different ages. There's also a Montessori movie from Michael Olaf called The Terrific Twos. It's pretty neat what they have them doing. I have found that Montessori is a great tool for toddlers. Even if I wasn't into Montessori for any other age group, I'd so totally buy into it for the toddler group!

I am so loving Montessori concepts for working with my daughter! She's fairly tired of toys, and doing the Montessori and TCC stuff just makes her feel so.....involved. And happily involved in things that mean something to her. I'd love to check out "The Terrific Twos." But as for the Happiest Toddler-- that book kind of left me







: . I mean, I loved his Happiest Baby book. But perhaps I need to re-visit the toddler book. And I hope he has it on DVD, so I can see what he's talking about. Because the DVD of the Baby book was a hundred times more useful. Even the soothing, sleep noise and the demonstration of how to swaddle and bounce the baby were great.

Thanks for your ideas!!!

Faith


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I think any time between 18 months and 4 can end up being "the terrible twos" (or the terrible X age). And it can cycle in and out. My 2.5 yo has various difficult behaviors that she did not have at 18 months, and then there are some behaviors that are gone. I can tell you that so far, tantrums peaked at almost exactly two.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

Quote:

She's fairly tired of toys, and doing the Montessori and TCC stuff just makes her feel so.....involved.
Faith, what resources are you using to find Montesssori ideas? We're using tons of TCC ideas, but I definitely need more. Oh, and I'm in Europe, so I guess I'm looking for internet resources since I don't have access to a lot of books here.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

The "twos" started at about 18 mo. for my older son, too.

My youngest is now 14 mo. and I'm getting glimpses.....eek! At least I feel better equipped this time!

The attitude shift sunnyside and Pat talked about is really true! (You might be interested in Raising your Spirited Child for a nice piece about viewing "negative" characteristics in a positive light and the difference it can make in how that affects our relationships.)

And the less controlling you can be about the little, everyday issues the easier the bigger "hot coffee" issues will be--in my experience anyway--my first is very persisitant and has a strooooong will. There's a lot to be said for saying, "Yes!" even when you're thinking, "No!" Gets you to problem-solving, compromising pretty quick.









Hang in there! It WILL pass!


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

i LOVE these threads because they remind me that my 2 1/2 year old's behaviour is NORMAL and that i am not a horrible parent! THANK YOU!! my 2 1/2 yo is...um, challenging. he is very strong willed and attached to me, and he has very specific wants and needs. luckily he is pretty verbal and can tell me very exactly what he needs- not that he always does, lol! sometimes he just stands there and screams. but he also has an amazing imagination and can be incredibly empathetic, and he reminds me to behave myself- like "mama, don't yell at me!" or my favorite--when i am angry and leave the room to recoup- "mama, don't go away, i LOVE you!"


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
As for controlling? Who here has a child over 12 months who does not go through phases where she wants to control things???? What adult here doesn't want some control in his or her life???

Because a person wants some control in his/her life they are controlling? See, I wouldn't view it that way. If my friend said "my husband is controling," I would not think that the same as saying "my husband feels he wants some control in his life." "Controlling" implies they want to control others, while wanting "some control in his or her life" makes it about the things that effect you. Totally different things.

Quote:

The fact that we all make bids to have some control over our lives and our environments seems more like a fact of life than anything else
So true! But I wouldn't say that makes everyone controlling.

Quote:

-- so why you have a problem with my recognizing that my daughter wants some control in her life, I'll never know. I've always thought that was what normal, healthy kids were supposed to want.
It is. I wasn't having a problem with that at all. I just don't think it helps anything for you to think of her as defiant and controlling. She's just expressing her wants and needs. Wanting some control doesn't make you controlling. Some people think a baby's cries are manipulative, I think that's wrong--doesn't mean I think babies don't cry--kwim?


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree that how we think about our children's behavior really impacts how we then respond and how we feel, and it's often how we perceive the behavior that leads us to either be engaged in a power struggle or not. For example, my 2.5 year old is currently having a great deal of difficulty with bedtime. She's clearly exhausted, maybe very overtired, and needs sleep. But she won't stay in bed, and often now says "I'm _not_ going to sleep." Now I could choose to see that as defiant (and in fact, I have at times) and thinking of it as "defiant" behavior sets us up for a power struggle-"defiant" has a negative connotation and is a very limited explanation of her behavior. Thus it leaves me with few options but to find a way to "make" her go to bed and sleep. And thinking of it as defiant leaves me feeling very frustrated. OTOH, I can (and have) taken a deeper look, setting aside the description "defiant", to see what's really going on-and what I've found is that actually she does have a need for autonomy, to choose when to go to sleep/bed, but more than that she's actually having some difficulty shifting from her active/alert state to a 'ready to sleep' state. She needs help relaxing, and when tuck her in and leave the room before she's ready to fall asleep, her body and mind are still going, she can't relax/she's hyped up, and she's up and out of bed despite really needing sleep (and having asked to go to bed earlier). Now looking at it this way I'm less frustrated *and* I now know what I need to do to help her go to sleep, and there is no power struggle. Might I still get frustrated if I have trouble figuring out how to best help her relax? Or because it can take so long to help her unwind? Sure, but that's about me not her. And there's no power struggle, which really reduces the amount of frustration I feel. I think this is all people are saying, that how we perceive things really has a huge effect on how we feel and what we do and that we have a lot of power within ourselves to make things easier. And I agree with it completely.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
But I don't get it if you try and say your child never "resists" anything, never tries to "control" anything, and never "defies" you by doing the very thing you've asked him not to do.

I think this goes back to how we perceive. As in my example above, I could say my child is defying me but that's only one way of understanding her. I think this is what others mean, that their child doesn't defy them because that's just not how they understand the behavior. And because some people choose not to exert control over their children, there really is nothing (or very little) to resist or defy. I know that when I'm setting aside my desire to control in order to better respond, my kids and I are usually able to come to a solution that addresses both our concerns in a satisfactory manner. And when we're in that process it there really is no thinking of it as "defiance" or "resistance"-there's only their concern which they want addressed, and my concern which I want addressed, and how we're going to solve this problem. KWIM? If I ask my child to do something, and he refuses I could label it defiance or I can look more deeply to see why he's refusing, what he needs-see his concern as well as mine and work together from there. There really is a difference between seeing it as defiance and seeing it as a child's attempt to get their concern on the table.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
I think some of the things some of you guys say make other parents feel as if they aren't as good of parents as you guys, because you seem not to have any "struggles" with your kids...you seem to have it all figured out.

Are you saying that you think it would be helpful for some parents to share that despite what they describe regarding living without "power struggles," they still do at times feel frustrated, tired, impatient, etc.? That it would help if they shared that at times they too have difficulty arriving at a solution? That it would help for them to share this part of their humanity so that the real uncomfortable feelings of motherhood that we all experience to one degree or another are openly talked about, so that mothers who are having a hard time might not feel that there's something wrong with them because they sometimes feel exasperated, frustrated, impatient, tired, etc.? I agree that these things can be very helpful, and sometimes I too wish that posts that make it sound so easy also included the reassurance that the parents who write them do indeed also at times feel frustrated, etc. I also think that it's important to remember that generally people post about what works for them (so the positive stuff) in the spirit of helping others, not everyone feels comfortable venting their frustrations, and that all of us are human beings and as such we do all have the same feelings at one time or another even if our experiences are not all the same (at least I assume we do).


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

sledg, you said it much better than I did.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup*







sledg, you said it much better than I did.









Yes! Exactly what I wanted to say:









Pat


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *faithnj*
You said it yourself: *"We don't do/have everything we want."* I hope that you aren't imaging that we don't "work to find solutions that are agreeable to both of us." Because I certainly do. But that doesn't change the fact that at any moment my DD can try to pull a cup of hot coffee out of my hands. And if I try to keep her from spilling it on herself? We are in a _power struggle._ Sure, as soon as I can talk to her and find her her own cup of liquid, we won't be in one. But that doesn't change the fact that any parent can find themselves in a power struggle in an instant, because children can't have everything they want, all the time, AND stay safe.

You know, its funny. Because the whole time I've been reading this thread, I've been thinking that we don't have power struggles, and that there are no "terrible two's" in this house.
But then, I can see a scenario like this happening. Not with coffee. Ds has a huge respect when it comes to "hot" and with my coffee in general (lol. He knows that it is important to me in the morning. lol.).
But I could see that type of thing happening. I just wouldn't have thought to consider it terrible two's or a power struggle. I just would have considered it two conflicting desires/needs, I guess.
But then, I would have no problem with ds being upset until I could figure out a safe way to make the situation agreeable to him. I don't really think of it as a power struggle if I refuse something that is unsafe. It just *IS* I guess.
And I've noticed that all I have to say a lot of the time is "HEY! give me a minute to figure out a solution here!" and he realizes that I really am trying to give him what he wants. It's just going to take me a minute to do that.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

It really helped me over the years to try and reframe things. I tend to knee-jerk situations sometimes negatively...but when I take a minute and look a bit deeper and remind myself, "S/he's learning. S/he's joyful. S/he's exploring. and, my personal favorite, S/he's not doing this just to annoy me







...etc" it really does seem to help ease my tension.


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