# Food Battle with a 12 year old



## 47jennifer (Sep 10, 2009)

I can't even believe I'm posting this situation, but here goes. My 12 year old brother is visiting from California. I have a 1 year old DS, so I'm not really in parenting a pre-teen mode at all! Anyways, we made this dish yesterday for lunch that he decided he didn't like. Which would be fine, but he spit on it (by accident as he was laughing). I was dealing with ds, but my dh told him at that point that he had to finish this food since he spit on it.

So, I went to nap with the baby...and two hours later they are at the table, the food has been cut up and watered down and is now a soup. Uneaten.

We went out to a sports event with extended family at night, so he ate there. But, so far today dh has insisted he eat it. My brother is not giving in. I was out for the day, and a small amount of "soup" got eaten, but we're about to eat dinner now and it looks like my brother will not be eating...

It seems ridiculous! But dh doesn't want to give in at the point. We think it's important for him to respect what we (and others) give him to eat and not to waste resources. We are fine if he doesn't like it, but once he spit on it, no one else can eat it. But is this crazy? Can we give it up yet? How?

Tomorrow he goes to a camp and I have to send him with food. What do I give him to eat??


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I think it's ridiculous, and not a very nice way for your husband to treat a guest in your house.


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## Annie Mac (Dec 30, 2009)

He's a guest in your home. Would you do this if he were an adult? It's just not your place to teach him to eat everything on his plate. I would simply drop it. Throw out the soup. Feed him dinner, pack his lunch tomorrow and don't mention it again. Yes, it's a waste. Yes, it's annoying. But I don't think it's the hill you want to die on, is it? Of course, if he *habitually* takes food and doesn't eat it, I would talk to him about it, but I would be very hesitant to get into what is essentially a power play with a twelve year old.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I think it's ridiculous, and not a very nice way for your husband to treat a guest in your house.


Yeah this. Also it's very controlling behavior for your DH. I'd be concerned over his ability to treat your own child with respect.


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

are you serious? it was an accident. this is not your kid, (not that this would be a good idea if it were your kid!) he is a guest in your house. put your foot down and tell your husband to stop being an a**hole and give the poor kid some real food.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Overrule your husband. Now.

Or call your mom and let her know how you are treating her son.

Go feed your brother.

And don't allow him to visit again until your husband has recovered his senses.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Overrule your husband. Now.

Or call your mom and let her know how you are treating her son.

Go feed your brother.

And don't allow him to visit again until your husband has recovered his senses.









to the whole thing. I can't believe you actually allowed this to happen in the first place.

I'd start working now with your husband on his issue with control, before he starts treating your children similarly.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Overrule your husband. Now.

Or call your mom and let her know how you are treating her son.

Go feed your brother.

And don't allow him to visit again until your husband has recovered his senses.

Absolutely. Actually, I'm appalled that you let it happen in the first place. Had my husband tried to pull that kind of stunt there would have been a very clear discussion about the fact that that abusive, degrading, controlling behavior would not be a part of my household.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Another vote for ridiculous. It really does sound more like a power trip than about not wasting food. You need to let your husband know that you won't tolerate him treating _anyones_ child that way.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Seriously?

I get that he "spit" on it and now you have to throw it away. Sort of.

But it's not like he did it on purpose, he's 12 yrs old, and he's not even your kid.

And cut up, watered down and now a "soup" GROSS!

I can't believe that ANYONE in that house let something like that continue.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

to what everyone else already said.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Completely, utterly ridiculous. And mean.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I'd have picked off the spit as best I could and eaten the rest. He's your brother. Does he have a contagious disease?

That nagging feeling you have that something is wrong about your husband's response, means something is wrong. If you listen to that feeling, and stop yourself from going down a path that makes you feel that way, it is one of the simplest ways to make sure you are always working within a gentle discipline framework.

Now go over-rule your husband and feed your brother.


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## To-Fu (May 23, 2007)

My parents did things like this to me when I was young and didn't want to eat for whatever reason. I am still dealing with the repercussions from that today.

Please don't pull a power trip on your brother over food! It's a control issue, not a food issue. It's okay to say you're sorry and give him something to eat (it'd be nice if the apology came from your husband). It's not like he spat on purpose, and what's left of the food now to eat sounds beyond disgusting. I second the notion that if you wouldn't treat another adult that way, then this is no way to treat your brother--especially since he's not your kid!

Hope we hear from you again and things resolve peacefully.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

He's 12 - feed him immediately and pack him a lunch that you know he will eat. If you are unable to do this then please let him go home so that he doesn't have to starve.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Not only is it abusive, but he's not even your kid. It's not you or your husband's place to discipline him. By the time he's 12 all he needs to know is that if he isn't decently behaved when he visits, the visit is over. Consequences further than that are up to your mom.


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## terrordactyl (Jul 19, 2006)

:


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I can't imagine making anyone eat anything - and now that it is soup and a day later? Really crazy. I feel bad for the kid.

It's okay to not eat something you don't want to. It's okay if food goes to waste sometimes. I know some people are big on not wasting any food, and that's fine, but in this situation if it's such a big deal than your DH should eat it instead of tossing it.

Since he's your brother, you need to stand up for him. What if your DH was insisting this with your own kids?

Tomorrow you send him some fresh, good food (whatever he likes) to camp. Sheesh.


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## ~savah~ (Aug 24, 2008)

Your post makes me so sad, I really don't even know what to say. It is really wrong that your husband is power tripping on your 12 yo brother like this and imo even worse that you are allowing him to do so. This incident may very well set the tone for how your children will be raised. Would you really want your child to be treated like this?


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

It sounds like a situation that got way out of hand. I think it is not ridiculous, but abusive and controlling. What the kid did was accidental (even if it wasn't, this would not be an appropriate response). Does your husband not ever make mistakes? Does he have to pay in such a gross and humiliating way when he does?

I say dump the soup and feed the kid. I don't even know what to think about your husband....


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

This reminds me of "Mommie Dearest," when Joan Crawford keeps feeding her poor daughter the same bloody steak again and again. Why are you backing your husband in his awful treatment of your little brother? This could destroy your relationship with your brother forever.

I also dislike wasting food, but I think it's much worse to treat someone like this than it is to throw away a plate of food. Tell your husband to step off and apologize to your poor baby brother.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
What if your DH was insisting this with your own kids?











What you described is really disturbing behavior on your husband's part. In addition to dealing with the situation at hand, I would be concerning myself with gearing up for some serious talks about discipline as parents of your own child _before_ your child gets old enough for it to be immediately relevant.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

This is really terrible. First, feed your brother, apologize, let him know it won't happen again in your home and get him to camp. (I guess this is retroactive advice at this point).

Second, I don't think you can have him over again unless your husband agrees not to be a controlling rude jerk with him.

Third, I think you and your husband need to talk about abusive, degrading, and disrespectful behaviour, before your child starts more on solids.

Kids do waste food from time to time; it's part of the learning process. And as you will learn, changing to other people's spicing/cooking/dishes/etc. can be hard on many kids, even 12 year olds, mostly accidentally, like taking too much of something thinking it's flavoured one way when it's flavoured another.

It's time to nip this in the bud. For myself, I personally believe part of a developing a _healthy non-wasteful_ relationship with food involves a lot of trial and error and it's my job as a parent to help that - encourage small tastes before filling a plate, etc., but not to control it.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

THis goes against every single child feeding expert I have ever read. Except the ones who also advocate blanket training and beating 6 months olds with PVC pipes.

Stop the whole thing now.

Apologize to your brother. "We haven't had a child your age yet. We made a mistake."

Feed your brother. Something he likes and is good for him.

Throw the "soup" away.

Either give your husband ANY of Ellyn Satter's books on child feeding, or get it yourself, read it, and then tell him FIRMLY that you will never do that with your child.

I tell new parents this:

"You can make them stay in their beds, but you cannot make them sleep.
You can make them sit on the potty, but you cannot make them poop.
You can make them sit at the table, but you cannot make them eat."

You may have the physical power to make your child be in certain places, but as you see, issues of their bodily integrity are up to them, and many kids will push back hard at attempts to control that.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Think about the fact that your brother is going to have this memory for the rest of his life. Now make it STOP. This is abuse, period.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Your husband's being an arse.

You need to stand up to your husband, feed your brother, and apologize.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

The way your husband (and you since you're going along with it) are behaving is abusive and just plain evil.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Update OP?

I hope you have fed your brother by now. I also hope your DH chills out a little (a lot!) by the time your little one reaches 1.5.









I remember when my little sister was 4 we had a babysitter and one day the babysitter made us tuna sandwiches but didn't drain the water first. My sister was probably rude about it but the sitter was mad and made my sister sit at the table until she ate it. It progressed from there to my sister throwing the sandwich in the garbage. That made the sitter mad and she fished it out and tried to make my sister eat it. So my sister threw it out the window and won the argument. We all still remember this argument to this day.

Anyway. Kids waste resources. They will ask for stuff and then not eat it. They will declare something is their favorite and then decide they hate it. It happens. I sympathize because food is so very expensive where I live but the price of food doesn't change that my kid is still a kid. Your brother didn't mean to spit on the food and you are punishing him for an accident. You are also punishing him for being a kid.

Apologize and feed the poor kid.


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## iamleabee (Jul 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetdaughter* 
Your post makes me so sad, I really don't even know what to say. It is really wrong that your husband is power tripping on your 12 yo brother like this and imo even worse that you are allowing him to do so. This incident may very well set the tone for how your children will be raised. Would you really want your child to be treated like this?

i totally agree.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Since you were online this morning, OP, I hope you showed your DH the replies here. Let us know if you sent normal, good, fresh food for your brother today to camp.

Food is not a discipline issue, and controlling or forcing someone to eat (or not eat) is certainly the opposite of Gentle Discipline. Food issues can negatively impact people for their whole life - often because as a kid they had an adult who thought they knew best, or were teaching them a lesson. ugh.

If your DH is getting into power struggles with a 12 yr old boy (who's not even his kid), I can't imagine how frustrated he will be with a picky, whiny, often demanding toddler.

Honestly, even if your brother had purposely spit in the food - forcing him to eat it would never be appropriate. Maybe insist he washes the dishes, or something, but what your DH tried to do is just wrong. Plus, since his spit is in the food and it has been sitting around for a day, just think of the bacteria growing in it. What if he got sick from being forced to eat it?


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## 47jennifer (Sep 10, 2009)

Wow! I am actually shocked at the harsh replies on here!

To update, yes he is eating. And my brother went along with it! At a few points we offered him an "out" and he said no. And he did eat that evening when we were out of the house.

He's staying with us because he has a harsh time with his parents. He actually wants to come and live with us. We're the only ones who do offer any limits whatsoever. His parents let him eat total crap and throw food away. My mother always throws food (and clothes, and toys, and books) away. It's a very wasteful home and something I don't want.

Instead of just the critiques, can anyone offer a suggestion of what you would do for discipline? I'm not sure it's best just to ignore spitting and wasting food for a 12 year old. My 15 month old throws food on the floor and we simply ignore it, as he knows no better. We don't believe kids should be forced to eat things, and it didn't feel right, but we're new to parenting older kids and also don't want to be okay with rude behaviour. We're struggling with his rude behaviour towards ds in other areas too, so it's a bit of an issue.


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

I am sure it is hard to see a thread filled with 'ridiculous' 'abusive' 'controlling' especially about your husband and father of your child.

but it does need to be said that forcing a child to eat when they don't want to will not solve anything. Forcing them to eat something gross that you probably wouldn't even eat is definitely mean. It is perfectly okay for a child to not eat once in awhile. It is perfectly okay for a child to make mistakes.

I remember when I was younger, I was served some food and I spit it out. I cannot remember if it was really gross or too hot, but either way my very first reaction was to get it out of my mouth fast. I was all of 4 or so and although I knew it was rude to spit food out, there wasn't even thought to it.. it needed to come out. I got in a lot of trouble and that memory is still with me. It is a tiny piece of the picture to why I have food problems today.

This isn't to say this one thing will destroy your brother for life. He can probably move on from this happily with only a distant memory if you handle it correctly, but my little story does emphasize the point that this can in fact result in serious eating issues along with control issues. Once isn't a big deal, but do keep in mind that your brother deserves a safe home to visit when he sees his sister and your child deserves a safe home to grow up in so that hopefully once stays once or doesn't happen at all.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

What's to discipline? You said he spit in his food by accident when he was laughing.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

And again, food and eating (or not eating) and even wasting food does not have anything to do with discipline. The kid is probably more confused than anything at this point. I doubt he learned not to accidently laugh and get spit in the family food. WTH? It could have been one of the adults. What he learned is that adults can overpower him and if he gets to a breaking point he will give in and comply. Nice.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *47jennifer* 
Wow! I am actually shocked at the harsh replies on here!

To update, yes he is eating. And my brother went along with it! At a few points we offered him an "out" and he said no. And he did eat that evening when we were out of the house.

He's staying with us because he has a harsh time with his parents. He actually wants to come and live with us. We're the only ones who do offer any limits whatsoever. His parents let him eat total crap and throw food away. My mother always throws food (and clothes, and toys, and books) away. It's a very wasteful home and something I don't want.

Instead of just the critiques, can anyone offer a suggestion of what you would do for discipline? I'm not sure it's best just to *ignore spitting* and wasting food for a 12 year old. My 15 month old throws food on the floor and we simply ignore it, as he knows no better. We don't believe kids should be forced to eat things, and it didn't feel right, but we're new to parenting older kids and also don't want to be okay with rude behaviour. We're struggling with his rude behaviour towards ds in other areas too, so it's a bit of an issue.


you said it was an accident, so ignore it. If he's wasteful make him taste things before taking a portion. Then have him take small portions, he can alays have more if he finishes. Do not power struggle over food!!!!


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## 47jennifer (Sep 10, 2009)

I guess I'll clarify. I'm feeling stressed as my brother wants to live with us full time. There has been a series of other rude/angry/obnoxious behaviours that I'm trying to manage. I don't like my son being exposed to rude teenager behaviours. I'm confused about my role...I don't want to be parent, but he's here for 5 weeks and possibly forever. I don't know how to deal with a teenager...it was an "accident"...so not entirely. I don't care if he eats food or not, but I'd prefer a "no thank you".

He agreed that he should finish his food! From the outset. So it got out of hand, but wasn't the horrible situation many of you are imagining. My husband is somewhat concerned about the limits and discipline, but isn't strict with ds. He's just learning as a dad and figuring things out. And although the food thing was going on, the two of them hung out yesterday afternoon and had a good time, and my brother wants to hang out with him more than anyone else. My brother is craving adult attention and limits.

He had a muffin and an apple at camp and had a great morning. Red river cereal, cheese, carrots for lunch.


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## basje (Jun 12, 2009)

I hope that you realize that although the comments might seem a little harsh, they are coming from a honest and loving place by the other MDC members. I agree completely with the other posters comments.

And I also hear that you feel like there should be some boundaries about food with a 12 year old but are unsure what healthy boundaries would look like. A 12 year old should be able to help setting the table prior to dinner or with basic preparation like chopping, boiling water or serving when politely asked. It's reasonable to expect him to sit at the table feet on the ground and use basic table manners (assuming of course he's been taught). If no one has taught table manners they can be explained, HE should be spoken too with please's and thank you's and respond with them as well. "Please sit with your feet on the floor" or "Please don't speak with food in your mouth" and you should give him a good example in your behavior. A 12 year old should be strongly encouraged to try new foods they are unsure about, but not forced to eat them if after a taste they don't like it. They can be taught to explain what about the food is unappetizing, "it's too spicy, or to salty or bitter" instead of describing a food as gross. They should not be required to finish everything on their plate if they are full, but encouraged to get smaller portions for themselves initially and get seconds or thirds if still hungry. If they were to sneeze, fart, spit while laughing, burp at the table they should be encouraged to say excuse me and immediately forgiven. They should be able to sit at the table for the duration of the meal and help clear the dishes.

Was this more along the lines of the feedback you were looking for?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *47jennifer* 
Wow! I am actually shocked at the harsh replies on here!

To update, yes he is eating. And my brother went along with it! At a few points we offered him an "out" and he said no. And he did eat that evening when we were out of the house.

He's staying with us because he has a harsh time with his parents. He actually wants to come and live with us. We're the only ones who do offer any limits whatsoever. His parents let him eat total crap and throw food away. My mother always throws food (and clothes, and toys, and books) away. It's a very wasteful home and something I don't want.

Instead of just the critiques, can anyone offer a suggestion of what you would do for discipline? I'm not sure it's best just to ignore spitting and wasting food for a 12 year old. My 15 month old throws food on the floor and we simply ignore it, as he knows no better. We don't believe kids should be forced to eat things, and it didn't feel right, but we're new to parenting older kids and also don't want to be okay with rude behaviour. We're struggling with his rude behaviour towards ds in other areas too, so it's a bit of an issue.

As someone who has in the past intervened with nieces and nephews a few things continue to leap out at me here.

First, it really sounds like you're confusing an issue with his *home* with an *accident* at your table. You perceive his family as "wasteful" and so you've imposed this very harsh (and yes - it was) consequence on what was just - what? Laughing? That's kind of making the kid pay for the sins of the fathers - and doesn't encourage real discipline. Because he wasn't causing a problem and the consequence is just off. He doesn't learn to discipline himself that way - he just learns to go along with what you say, which is not self-discipline at all.

So what I would do: Just quietly say "Hey, that's wasted our dish. Next time try to be more careful okay?"

Second, just because a child accepts a punishment or tells you you were right, doesn't make it right. Many people who have been abused or in chaotic situations (myself among them) internalised that kind of response because it ensured our safety growing up - then have spent 10 years in therapy trying to get over the idea that laughing and spitting in food should result in such a major power issue.

Third, if he was being rude (I still don't quite see how, but assuming he was) there are lots of ways to handle it. At my house I look at the child and say in a stern tone, "That was rude. Would you like to try again?"

For being rude to your DS you'd have to say what he's doing - how is a 12 year old rude to a 1 year old anyway? I'm genuinely curious.









Fourth and this is kind of a general peeve of mine and not just related to this thread but I really think some of the obsession with "not wasting food" is kind of a sick response to blaming the family/children for what is definitely a wasteful society. Sure, I don't think kids should be opening boxes and strewing the contents about but I'm not quite sure what we are teaching our children when we prioritize "not wasting" over human kindness, generosity, and understanding.

Parents who want their children to have a generous nature and who yet respond to food wastage of _one plateful_ as if a major sin has been committed upon the earth (and again I'm not talking about ripping open 8 cereal boxes and playing "crunch wrestling" in them or whatever) seem to me to be encouraging a miserly zero-sum game into their kids' lives.

If it is an ongoing problem, why not just sit down with him and explain your viewpoint and ask him to start with small portions?


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I think some things are getting confused here. I understand not wanting to waste food. I understand wanting kids (and the adults who model......) to be respectful. I agree with that; I really do. However....

The spitting was an ACCIDENT. Accident. As in not on purpose. If you dropped something and it broke should that action be given the same response as if you threw it against the wall as hard as you could?

If he spit in the food because he didn't like it, I'd send him away from the table; meal over for him - but the next meal would be starting fresh with new food and a clear expectation of the choices we have if something we don't like is served.

If he spit in the food accidentally while laughing, and it is just me, my dh and him eating, I'd do what another poster said and throw away the top portion and continue.

And good to learn now, before your dc is any older - food issues are a losing battle. NEVER get into a battle over food. It isn't worth it and you will lose.

Let everyone (adults and kids) serve up their own portions, or serve them just a tiny portion if you aren't sure they 1) like it or 2) are that hungry.

A certain amount of food gets wasted. It just does. Try to keep it to a minimum but don't freak out if it happens.

I absolutely think you should deal with rude behavior swiftly. But unfairly punishing a kid for an ACCIDENT is not ok. And I am really sad for that kid that this situation is the better of his options. I am sure you love him, but your husband is not being kind. I am not even GD, and even I think he is being way over the top.

YOU need to have a calm sit down talk with your dh about how you guys will handle stuff like this in the future.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *47jennifer* 
I guess I'll clarify. *I'm feeling stressed as my brother wants to live with us full time*. There has been a series of other rude/angry/obnoxious behaviours that I'm trying to manage. *I don't like my son being exposed to rude teenager behaviours.* I'm confused about my role...I don't want to be parent, but he's here for 5 weeks and possibly forever. I don't know how to deal with a teenager...it was an "accident"...so not entirely. I don't care if he eats food or not, but I'd prefer a "no thank you".

He agreed that he should finish his food! From the outset. So it got out of hand, but wasn't the horrible situation many of you are imagining. My husband is somewhat concerned about the limits and discipline, but isn't strict with ds. He's just learning as a dad and figuring things out. And although the food thing was going on, the two of them hung out yesterday afternoon and had a good time, and my brother wants to hang out with him more than anyone else. *My brother is craving adult attention and limits.*

He had a muffin and an apple at camp and had a great morning. Red river cereal, cheese, carrots for lunch.

We cross-posted I think.

Some of these leap out at me.

First, it's okay to be stressed. For me that would be a sign to really think about whether it's something you want to handle. It would be a good time to come up with "house rules" you would need in place.

Second, if you take a 12 year old into your home your son will be exposed to rude teenage behaviours, guaranteed. Most teens do go through periods of testing limits, hormones, etc. My nephews are the sweetest kids...and still do it.

I'm not saying your response has to be to shrug and put up with it (in fact, don't)...but your son will be exposed. It's kind of like saying "I don't want a two year old in my home if he's going to have tantrums."

What your son WILL see if you proceed is your response to those things. I think it's absolutely, totally fine for you to set limits with your brother and to work with him on his behaviour. But if your very first concern is that your son not see these things at all...it's probably not the place for your brother. He is only 12. He seems huge and big compared to your son, but 12 is young.

Craving attention and limits is big - but that makes him vulnerable. Just remember that a child that wants/needs attention that badly is sorely in need of adults who are calm and reasonable. Needing limits and boundaries is definitely a need - but that is NOT the same as needing PUNISHMENT.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

IMO, your DH is completely out of line. Throw out the "soup", feed your brother, and tell your DH not to do this again. You cannot win a battle of wills over food, ever. The only times I've ever pulled the "eat this or eat nothing else" is with toddlers or preschoolers who have been repeatedly pushing buttons about food and have already gotten into a pattern of wastefulness (generally if the child was warned not to take too much then takes more anyway.) And then it's only for the one meal.

This was HIGHLY innapropriate to ever do to a preteen, and it went on far too long. If your DH was in a pattern of doing this all the time it would be controlling or abusive- but if this is an isolated incident then it sounds more like he got himself into a power struggle and didn't know how to get out of it. I visualized the two of them acting like a couple of toddlers with no adult intervention.

When it first happened, I would have told DH to stop that immediately, before rushing off to get the baby to nap. Personally, I would have no problem eating food that only got a little spit on it, especially if it was from a family member. But some people are more squeamish about that than others, and then the small amount of food should have simply and quietly been discarded. My reaction would have been to put the leftovers away in a separate container from the uneaten leftovers (since saliva can make food go bad more quickly) and eaten the leftovers myself for another meal.

It sounds like both you and your DH need some guidance in "parenting preteens" in general. You need to set appropriate limits and enforce them- but avoid power struggles. Sit down with your brother and your DH and discuss what's expected at mealtimes, and what consequences should be if rules are forgotten or broken. If the 3 of you figure out the rules together, you can probably come up with fair and reasonable solutions- not just for the table but for all house rules. Explain to your brother that you're both still learning how to parent big kids, and mistakes will happen, but let's try to learn from those mistakes and move forward.

It's important to let the older child have some say in the process (he's 12, not 1) but still the adults get to make the final decisions and do the enforcement later (he's 12, not 20).


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## jellop (Dec 11, 2006)

OP, right now, I don't think you need to worry about _discipline_ with your brother. You said he's had no limits or anything at his parents. Right now just chill and hang with him, show him how he's expected to behave by example, and just try talking and explaining things when there's issues.

Also, and I mean this as no insult, but familiarize yourself with normal teenage behavior.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

1. It is rude to make a big deal out of someone accidentally spitting. Talk about shaming.

2. Of course he is going to agree with you, he is hoping you will take him in.

3. It sounds like you are the one with issues from your mom's wastefulness.

4. Get a book on normal preteen behavior.

nak


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I think some things are getting confused here. I understand not wanting to waste food. I understand wanting kids (and the adults who model......) to be respectful. I agree with that; I really do. However....

The spitting was an ACCIDENT. Accident. As in not on purpose. If you dropped something and it broke should that action be given the same response as if you threw it against the wall as hard as you could?

If he spit in the food because he didn't like it, I'd send him away from the table; meal over for him - but the next meal would be starting fresh with new food and a clear expectation of the choices we have if something we don't like is served.

If he spit in the food accidentally while laughing, and it is just me, my dh and him eating, I'd do what another poster said and throw away the top portion and continue.

And good to learn now, before your dc is any older - food issues are a losing battle. NEVER get into a battle over food. It isn't worth it and you will lose.

Let everyone (adults and kids) serve up their own portions, or serve them just a tiny portion if you aren't sure they 1) like it or 2) are that hungry.

A certain amount of food gets wasted. It just does. Try to keep it to a minimum but don't freak out if it happens.

I absolutely think you should deal with rude behavior swiftly. But unfairly punishing a kid for an ACCIDENT is not ok. And I am really sad for that kid that this situation is the better of his options. I am sure you love him, but your husband is not being kind. I am not even GD, and even I think he is being way over the top.

YOU need to have a calm sit down talk with your dh about how you guys will handle stuff like this in the future.

this has much wisdom in it.

My oldest is 10 now. Some days he'll eat a ton and go looking for more. Other days he won't. things he said he liked yesterday are his new enemytoday.

My answer?

1) Small portions until he finishes them. I never load up his plate. He may say he's hungry, but he gets half a chicken breast and a small scoop of side dishes. When he finishes one of his servings he can ask for seconds of it.

2) We ask that he tries a bite of each food (we don't serve him foods he truly hates; I think everyone has the right to have a few things that make them go :gack:. We don't force him, and we never, ever, require him to clean his plate.

3) We accept that sometimes he may not feel like eating what we've prepared at all.

4) We accept that trying to control someone's appetite or taste buds is a losing battle, one in which we will lose face, lose a connection with our son, and in the end NOT produce a child who has a sensible attitude towards food.

5) We figure at least our uneaten foods return to the earth via compost!


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

My 2 cents - have him help with food preparation, even gardening if he is with you longer term. kids are more enthusiastic eating what they have helped to make.

50 years ago, it was common to force kids to "clean the plate". not really a good idea since we have an epidemic of obesity in this country, etc.

Small servings is the way to go.


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## Ravensong13 (Sep 28, 2009)

I've dealt with having a preteen brother as a house guest before. It can be hard dealing with rude behavior, but I just went the way of telling him how I'd like him to act and then left it up to our mother to talk to him when he kept being disrespectful of my home.
I know now I won't be having my little brother over to stay without my mom because he can't really handle being a good guest and I don't want to put that kind of strain on our relationship. It all boiled down to the fact that I am his sister, NOT his mom. I do not think it's really your dh's place to get controlling about food, especially for something that seems like an accident. What's more important at this point, your dh winning the battle or your brother ever wanting to stay at your house again??


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *47jennifer* 
I guess I'll clarify. I'm feeling stressed as my brother wants to live with us full time. There has been a series of other rude/angry/obnoxious behaviours that I'm trying to manage. I don't like my son being exposed to rude teenager behaviours. I'm confused about my role...I don't want to be parent, but he's here for 5 weeks and possibly forever. I don't know how to deal with a teenager...it was an "accident"...so not entirely. I don't care if he eats food or not, but I'd prefer a "no thank you".

It sounds like you have undercurrents of other things going on. I know I would feel pretty conflicted if taking physical custody of my 12-year-old brother were on the table. You have your own life with your pretty new baby and maybe you are envisioning having more children as well. It would be a big change to add your little brother to your household and be responsible for him and parent him too. But on the other hand it sounds like you know your mother's house is not a good situation for him and you love your brother and want to do what's best for him. I can imagine that this big white elephant in the room is adding stress to everything for all of you.

Anyway I don't have advice but I just wanted to acknowledge this undercurrent because I think it's playing into the whole thing and escalating what you and/or your DH might have otherwise let go of.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

You and your DH should read Kids Parents Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber. The first one is more GD parenting but the second is really useful too. You should probably have a family meeting and talk about how you and your DH don't know much about dealing with older kids. Then your DH should apologize about the food incident and the three of you should have a discussion about possible house rules for everyone and what 'rude behavior' means to everyone. Your brother could have a different idea about what is rude and isn't rude than your DH. Discussing the incidents you feel were rude, angry or obnoxious behaviors could help avoid more incidents. All ages have their own group of normal annoying behaviors. You've noticed your DS likes throwing his food. Preteen and early teen years can be a difficult age to be and live with. Having open and mutually respectful dialog can really help make it easier for everyone. Having a weekly family meeting could help you deal with stuff as it comes up. During the preteen and teen years, a child who feels the rules are fair is more likely to follow them. Also having input on what the rules need to be will help your brother follow them. Teaching manners is best done by modeling, so if you and your DH use thank you, please, your welcome, etc. and you tell your brother that you try to use verbal manners as a family he will slowly get in the habit of using polite words too. If he's not used to being treated respectfully it will take awhile for him to learn how to treat people appropriately.

I agree food isn't a discipline issue. Also to control waste, each person getting their own very small portion of food and then getting seconds or thirds should help. You could also have a designated place for snack foods or label stuff that is for meals so there's no conflict about someone eating stuff you need to make dinner. For example in our house a can of beans or raw carrots are usually fair game, but sometimes they are part of homemade chili dinner that night or maybe stew.


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## maria22000 (Jan 2, 2008)

he is 12 right? Cook with him, teach him about food, preparation, preservation. Make it fun, let him experiment. They don't want food pushed down their throats at that age, they want some responsibility. He may actually get a kick out of making a whole meal on night a week. If he doesn't go for it, make some of part of the living agreement, step by step. But stay out of power struggles. Even when you win, you didn't win.

Good luck!


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## SilverFish (Jan 14, 2010)

sorry if the replies sounded harsh, but this is the internet, and we only have your words to go on. the scenario you provided us with seemed pretty terrible, so we responded to that.

obviously the situation is much more complex than you let on before, and I'm going to agree with the PPs... you need to think about and deal with the undercurrents before overreacting to the surface issues.

i know how pre-teen boys can be and i can understand how an "accident" can not really be an accident at all, but something that's made to look that way to push your buttons. i'm a middle school teacher and i've seen it happen... a kid "bumping" into someone, "accidentally" farting/burping, etc. it's almost always best to pretend that you think these are really accidents (unless they're actively harmful) because otherwise you get into a power struggle over whether something was on purpose or not.

if you do decide to keep your brother with you, you'll have much bigger problems than whether he eats his food or not. simplify your expectations of him, and focus on the important stuff. you and your DH really need to discuss what things to let go, and what to keep.


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