# This Thread is Dedicated to Child-Led Weaning Mamas!



## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

This is a respectful thread for those who are practicing, or those who wish to learn more about, Child-Led Weaning. It is in *no way* a flame on those who are not CLW. If you are CLW, or thinking about it, please feel free to vote and join in on the discussion!

And please sign the petition.....
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=1613805

I know there are other mothers here who are dedicated to (or at least interested in) letting their child wean on their own time (aka Child-Led Weaning), I'm just wondering how many. Your child doesn't have to be a certain age for you to be practicing child-led weaning, so anyone is welcome! And those who haven't yet decided (or who are open to having their minds changed) are welcomed with open arms as well.

I am noticing that an additional more specific CLW forum is needed. It wouldn't mean that anyone has to choose between the two, we can all still visit both forums just like we do other forums here at MDC.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Yes, yes I would.

: )


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Yes!


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

I'd contribute to it


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Sounds good to me!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks Mother Sunshine. Definately yes! It is a totally different thing that we're doing. I think there really needs to be a separate forum. It seems us Child led weaners keep trying to seek eachother out on here but it's hard. We really would benefit from our own separate forum.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'd like to see it as a subform here in EB.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Yes yes yes!!!!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Count me in!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I think it's a good idea, because a lot of people want to come into the extended (soon to be sustained! where's the 'crossing my fingers' smilie?) breastfeeding forum because they're planning CLW, but their child isn't 1 yet. Also, not everyone in the extended (sustained!! hee hee) forum IS planning CLW -- some of them are just planning parent-led weaning at a greater age than 12 mos. So there should be a separate CLW forum.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I think this is a great idea, I'd love to see it.. SBFMommy: the crossing fingers smiley is here --->







: And I think that CLW should be a subforum of 'Breastfeeding Beyond Infancy'.














:


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## Jazmommie (Nov 19, 2001)

Count me in--doing child led weaning with child #3 .


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Yes! I would love it!


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## OwensMa (Apr 15, 2004)

Yes please!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Oh wow, I didn't know there really was one -- I was just kidding!







: Thanks!


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## rareimer (Oct 20, 2003)

i think it would be great to have it as a sub-forum of the extended breastfeeding forum.

great idea!


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Yes! There are some very different issues when you are practicing child-led weaning. Not that I still wouldn't contribute to the regular EN board but I would love to be able to talk with a group of women who are practicing child-led weaning as I am.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I am hoping that some of the mamas who voted "no" would mind saying why. I know debates can get nasty sometimes but lets just keep it as friendly and straightforward as possible.

The reason I say this is because at first I wasn't sure if I'd want a separate forum. My reason was that I was worried that maybe some mamas who were "extended"







: breastfeeding and didn't know about Child led Weaning wouldn't be exposed to it and have the opportunity to learn about it and the mamas who "practice" it. Then I realized that everytime they did the "forum jump" to "Extended" Breastfeeding they would see that Child Led Weaning Forum and be free to lurk or ask questions and decide if that is what's right for them. I was also worried that the CLWers wouldn't be on the EB forum as much and there would be less advice that might be needed. However, I know that I, and probably many others, would still visit the EB forum for things like this anyway. So, I hope I'm making sense and I hope those who voted "no" will state their reason so we can explore all the possibilties of this.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I voted yes, but will expand on one of my reasons too. I'm nursing a 4 year old, make that 4 1/2 this month! Even here on MDC, that is pushing the envelope for some people! The support of like-minded mamas is much appreciated


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

hey callmemama, my ds is OVER 4 1/2!! Welcome to my world!























Great idea for a new forum!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Is that support thread still alive for mamas nursing babies age 3 and up?


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SBF*
Is that support thread still alive for mamas nursing babies age 3 and up?

I thought I saw it recently...








T SBF am I crazy or did you just change your user name?


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

T too...

You're not crazy Adrianne! I didn't notice until you pointed it out though. SBF, why no "mommy" anymore?


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I know this might hit a few nerves, but what about a more all encompassing "weaning" sight (or "child led and gentle weaning"). I can see situations where the child is much older than "typical" nursers (preschool age) and the mom is just worn out and wants to set some boundries and wants a gentle approach. There are also situations that have happened to mama's on this site on where they are forced to wean due to medical concerns (like chemo) and need help doing it as gently as possible.

You could set forth some guidelines in the heading that the focus is on child led weaning to redirect any trolls.

Just an idea. I am pro-CLW btw. This week has really tested my commitment to it, but I am still thankful that there is a place to go where I can vent without all the "time to wean" advice.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I would love to have one!! I didn't let my dd wean herself but weaned her when she was 3 and a few months. I feel that was a big mistake and my ds will wean himself (he'll be 3 in July and still nurses A LOT!).


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## loon13 (Dec 2, 2002)

Oooh, I'd love to see a weaning forum. I think Jennifer Z has a good point about making it a "child-led and gentle weaning" forum.

In either case, my dd's 2nd birthday is rapidly approaching and I find myself the same as I was at her 6 month and 1 year days: I can't imagine stopping since she still wants/needs it. Wow!

That said, I know weaning will happen someday, and I wouldn't mind a forum where I could get info about it. Even if it's just moms who post how they weaned/how their children self-weaned, I think we all benefit from hearing personal stories.

Loon


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I think the whole point of having a separate forum for Child Led Weaning is because we do not want to wean and many CLWing Mamas have expressed sadness and frustration at having to read all the weaning requests and stories. The main idea is to be with other mamas who will not be weaning their child. Child Led Weaning does not go hand in hand with any other type of weaning really. They're really two different philosophies and that's what we already have in this forum as it is. That's the reason for wanting a new, separate one for CLW.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

OK, another twist:

this might be stretching it, but maybe a weaning subforum would keep the want to wean and weaning threads off of the extended breastfeeding area so the CLW mamas wouldn't be confronted with those threads if they don't want to. Sort of a reverse philosophy of adding a CLW. Maybe it would be assumed that the Extended Breastfeeding meant you are still breastfeeding with the understanding that it is child lead, but when you get to the weaning stages you go into the subforum for weaning.

I know this is opposite of the original proposal, but I just wonder if it is logical to seperate the CWL mamas out since most of us ARE CLW. If the purpose is to not have to sort through the weaning threads, maybe those would be better for a seperate forum.

This would make the "Child lead weaning" the norm and "weaning" more of a diversion from the norm...well, that isn't coming out quite right, but I hope you understand what I am meaning...maybe somebody else can put it better.

Maybe a good comparision is if we had the "Diapering" forum, and then "Cloth Diapering" was a subforum. It would indicate that CDing was the minority belief instead of the majority belief of the site.

Food for thought. I am really NOT trying to be arguementative, just got my brain going. lol.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SBF*
Is that support thread still alive for mamas nursing babies age 3 and up?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&page=1&pp=20
-------------------------------------------

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I think the whole point of having a separate forum for Child Led Weaning is because we do not want to wean and many CLWing Mamas have expressed sadness and frustration at having to read all the weaning requests and stories. The main idea is to be with other mamas who will not be weaning their child. Child Led Weaning does not go hand in hand with any other type of weaning really. They're really two different philosophies and that's what we already have in this forum as it is. That's the reason for wanting a new, separate one for CLW.











I thought there already was a weaning forum.......or maybe I'm thinking of another website? Anyway, maybe someone who is interested in weaning issues/advice should start a separate thread asking for a weaning forum. But, like MamaAllNatural said, Child-Led Weaning and any kind of mother-led weaning (be it gentle, abrupt, or forced) are two completely different concepts.

*This thread's focus is on Child-led Weaning.* You don't have to agree or disagree with it, so please don't see this as a "either you're in or you're out" kind of thread/poll. The EB forum will surely not be replaced by it. If this forum's name ever does change, it surely won't be "Child-Led Weaning" because then where would everyone else go. And most of us who do practice CLW will surely still post on EB (or whatever the name will hopefully become). I am just hoping to have a forum where those of us who are CLW can freely and open-heartedly post with other like-minded mamas and not get drowned-out by (and sometimes saddened by) the posts who are more mother-led focused.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

In light of a very saddening thread I just read in which a poster sees what we're doing as worrisome, I feel even more strongly that we need a separate Child Led Weaning forum. I want to walk away feeling stronger and supported, not feeling hurt and frustrated (or worried about the law!).


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I wouldn't want to see a general weaning forum at Mothering and I wouldn't want to see a gereral diapering forum at Mothering either. The whole point of Mothering is that it focuses on natural parenting and alternatives to the mainstream. There are plenty of mainstream boards where people can post about plastic diapers and parent-led weaning.

I shortened my name from SBFmommy to SBF for the sake of simplicity and in honor of my 2000th post.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SBF*
The whole point of Mothering is that it focuses on natural parenting and alternatives to the mainstream. There are plenty of mainstream boards where people can post about plastic diapers and parent-led weaning.

Excellent point SBF. I completely agree.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I voted yes. I don't practice child led weaning, so I wouldn't mind those devoted to it having their own forum. I guess that might be a further subdivision we wouldn't need, but I've been reading a lot on this forum tonight, and it seems like there are moms who are opposed to anything but child led weaning, so perhaps some separation would be good. They might feel more comfortable having their own place to talk about this topic.

FWIW, my daughter weaned at 3.5 years although she has asked to nurse a number of times since then. The last time was about 2 or 3 months after my second dd was born. I had actually been joking with her, asking her if she wanted to nurse when I was engorged. She kept saying no way. Then a month later she actually asked to nurse and I let her, but she said she couldn't get anything. At that point she was 4.5

I did child respectful weaning, but my feelings definitely played a part. I think some of the things I did (don't offer, don't refuse; offer a lot to let her know it is available, offer something else when she was bored and just wanted my attention, refuse if I just wasn't in a good place mentally or physically to nurse right then) contributed to how long she chose to nurse. I'd like for moms who practice child led weaning and moms who don't to have a free place to speak openly.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

ok, I went and read the long thread with a poll on child led weaning with new eyes and realize why the CLW mamas get so frustrated. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Although I am entering the "can't really talk about it to those around me" phase, I have not been engulfed in it yet. I have had plenty of dissapproving nods (ever since he was 1) but no outright "you shouldn't be doing this" type thing that I am sure to experience if ds wants to nurse well into or past his preschool years (which I really think he will). I started out commited to breastfeeding "for at least 6 weeks". lol. 6 months seemed "too old" when I started, never mind 28 months.

In response to somebody talking about there being other places to talk about weaning: that is true, however, I think it would be nice to also have a gentle weaning forum here also since so many of the other weaning sites would be likely to include many ungentle methods to young infants. Many of the women on this site that would do parent-led weaning, would be doing it with a toddler which would require much different strategies than infants. I think a support system for them would be good too. (I aspire to never use it, but it would be a good addition also.) This would also keep the weaning questions off the board.

eta: thank you for this discussion, I have trully learned something today. I just assumed that everyone here did CLW and was surpised to learn different. Although there is more support for CLW than other places, I see why you desire a seperate sanctuary.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
In light of a very saddening thread I just read in which a poster sees what we're doing as worrisome, I feel even more strongly that we need a separate Child Led Weaning forum. I want to walk away feeling stronger and supported, not feeling hurt and frustrated (or worried about the law!).









could you post a link? I haven't seen it...


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I don't want it to be an all types of weaning forum because the point of having a separate forum is becase we AREN'T weaning. I personally would like a place where NOT weaning was the norm.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SBF*
I think it's a good idea, because a lot of people want to come into the extended (soon to be sustained! where's the 'crossing my fingers' smilie?) breastfeeding forum because they're planning CLW, but their child isn't 1 yet. Also, not everyone in the extended (sustained!! hee hee) forum IS planning CLW -- some of them are just planning parent-led weaning at a greater age than 12 mos. So there should be a separate CLW forum.


Excellent point SBF. Then maybe it should be a separate forum (as part of "Breastfeeding") rather than a subforum of "EB" because there are probably many mothers who are CLW but their child is not yet old enough for this forum so they would never see it.


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Yes! I agree--2 diff issues.

Now, do we need more chanting, or what?!


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## arratt (Apr 24, 2004)

Im new to MDC and was just wondering what you all consider child led weaning and how "strict" you are with the definition? My dd is 2.5 years old and still nursing all day and night, I have no plans to wean her completely but I have been considering night weaning (just finished reading the no cry sleep solution book) dd recently because she still will wake up 6+ times a night and can only nurse herself back to sleep. So if you night wean but still nurse on demand all dayis that NOT considered child lead weaning or by child led weaning do you mean COMPLETELY weaned? Thanks for the info.
Shannon


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

To be clear, I changed my mind about the weaning forum. I think there should be TWO additional forums....1) gentle weaning or parent led weaning and 2) child led weaning

After reading the posts, I can completely agree that CLW should be a seperate forum. I was just saying that a "gentle/parent-lead weaning" forum would be a good addition also.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arratt*
Im new to MDC and was just wondering what you all consider child led weaning and how "strict" you are with the definition? My dd is 2.5 years old and still nursing all day and night, I have no plans to wean her completely but I have been considering night weaning (just finished reading the no cry sleep solution book) dd recently because she still will wake up 6+ times a night and can only nurse herself back to sleep. So if you night wean but still nurse on demand all dayis that NOT considered child lead weaning or by child led weaning do you mean COMPLETELY weaned? Thanks for the info.
Shannon

Hi Shannon, For myself CLW means complete weaning. I consider ourselves CLW because I am letting dd decide when she is ready to fully wean. I think it is completely okay for the mother to initiate reasonable nursing limits if it will help their relationship, after all it is a partnership. I night-weaned my dd when she was around 2 because I found myself increasingly becoming the mother I didn't want to be when I had lack of sleep. So nightweaning actually helped our nursing relationship because during the day I was able to nurse her on demand without feeling worn-out or touched-out. Our situation is kinda strange though because around the same time when she night-weaned we started the family bed (would have started at birth if I knew better), so at least she didn't feel abandoned or alone at night. At 7 she is still nursing when she wants, which fluctuates between once a day and once every few weeks at bedtime. Obviously I'm in it for the long haul, regardless of her age, which is what I believe to be true child-led weaning. IMHO one cannot do child-led weaning and then decide that the child is too old so then initiate weaning and still call it child-led....That would be mother-led weaning IMO.

HTH!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ekblad7*







Yes! I would love it!

Amy, As moderator do you have any advice on how we can proceed further? Are Cynthia and Peggy aware of this thread?...or what do we/I need to do to make them aware in hopes of having a change in the near future?


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
Hi Shannon, For myself CLW means complete weaning. I consider ourselves CLW because I am letting dd decide when she is ready to fully wean. I think it is completely okay for the mother to initiate reasonable nursing limits if it will help their relationship, after all it is a partnership.

OK, well, in that case, I did let my child wean herself. She chose to stop nursing at night and she completely weaned on her own, but I figure she might have picked up on some of my feelings. I guess that is still CLW.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I consider us to be doing CLW, but I want him to stop at night and have begun to resist night nursings. Is that against the CLW rules? I just can't take being so tired anymore!!!


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

I had to think about this a lot...I think that having an extended breastfeeding forum is an excellent idea for info/support for those making the decision. But I have found that I just don't post there often because I feel like I don't fit in.

Part of my problem is that I am not sure whether we have weaned or not...I feel silly posting when I think we are totally weaned, and don'tr know where to start when it appears she isn't...does that make any sense at all? But it would help if I knew I was coming to a forum where other moms had experienced the ambivalence the child feels at the end of their bf-ing journey.

So yeah, I'd like a place to do that...even tho' we think we're done (I did talk to her last week, when we were having our " how old is too old?" talk here)


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Yes ma'm!


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## root*children (Mar 22, 2004)

Am I a total loser cause I voted no? <dodging tomatoes being thrown at me>. I am all about CLW. Currently we randomly tandem nurse cause my nearly 4yo isn't ready to call it quits yet. I just feel if I want to post about CLW, I can do it in EB and ask for nobody to be critical of me...

<feeling very uncool>


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

:LOL

dready*mama -------------------->


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## root*children (Mar 22, 2004)

<wiping the goop from my eyes> :nana:


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

You need to do this:


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## root*children (Mar 22, 2004)

and neener-neener-neener :nana: :nana:


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

*Mother Sunshine,*

There is a new Forum being considered elsewhere on the boards. It has been stated that a "need" for the forum must be demonstrated on a thread for at least a couple of months before they'll consider making a new one. So, maybe you can edit the title of this thread to Child Lead Weaning Support or make a new thread with that title and we'll go from there. I'd really love to see CLW have it's own forum.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks MamaAllNatural







I changed the title.

Too bad they can't consider the "Support for Older Children" thread as a need for an additional forum. It's safe to assume that most of the posters there are CLW. With 16 pages, 301 replies and 10,616 views, we've been cramped into that one thread since March 2003. And before that we used the "How Old is Too Old" thread (until we got a troll and needed to start the new thread) which is 9 pages, 170 replies, and8,893 views.


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## rareimer (Oct 20, 2003)

i think the CLW forum is a great idea! but i am wondering...if (as it seems to me) most of us here are CLW'ers, that would leave the EB forum rather empty...


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I actually don't think we're in the majority. There have been at least 5 threads this week about how to wean. I would say we're in the minority. I would also still visit the EB forum.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I also don't think that CLWieners :LOL are in the majority on this board. I see a LOT of posts about weaning. I think that valuable information is provided, because on the internet most weaning sites are talking about babies, not toddlers or children. But, I really would like a place to go w/no mention of weaning methods, etc...

That said, I never know how to count myself. DD was the one to call it quits (she "couldn't" nurse any more--- couldn't get milk, though that hadn't bothered her when she was younger and I was pg), but I definately night weaned her (at least 4 hours when she was over 2 and I was pg) and limited her after DS was born. So, she was not child led, but she did, in fact, decide when she was done (Which I think would have been later if she hadn't had any restrictions in the first place). So, where do I fit?


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I think the point is that the final weaning was up to the child, which in your case it sounds like that's what happened. I think setting limits and rearranging the nursing relationship is just a change, but it's not completely cutting them off from the breast.

It is funny, I'm realizing I might be the only Child Led Nightweaner here!:LOL I need my own forum. I don't mind being the experiment. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I still nurse her "on demand" (she's not 'demanding' about it though







). She nurses quite a few times during the day and at least once at night. Am I really, truly the only one?














(oh, she's 3 btw).


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Child-Led Nightweaners here, too! He's 2.5. He'll decide when he's done, not me.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Like another posted here, he falls back asleep nursing and for the first 26 months it was every 1 1/2 to 2 hours or about 7 times a night. Thank the heavens that he started throwing in a 4 hour stretch once a night. Now, just shy of his 3rd birthday he will sleep 3 to 6 hours in the beginning of the night and then either nurse every 1 1/2 hours or sleep till an hour before waking to nurse again. So slowly, slowly I am enjoying longer stretches of sleep.

Ann


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=1433922


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I would have done CLW at night except for the fact that I am sleep-deprived to the point of hysteria. I also kinda think that it's my natural instinct to resist him a bit now that he is old enough to accept these limitations. Like I always say, I always think about what a person would do hundreds of years ago, before modern interventions and social restrictions. I think if I lived isolated somewhere and had no one to give me advice or feedback about how long to nurse or whatever, I would probably be doing the same thing. I always give in if he is sad, but lately he is actually much more accepting if I ask him to wait a little so mama can sleep more.


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## mamaW (Aug 26, 2003)

Yes,Yes, Yes


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

yes!







thanks for starting this!


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## mamacate (Mar 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I think the point is that the final weaning was up to the child, which in your case it sounds like that's what happened. I think setting limits and rearranging the nursing relationship is just a change, but it's not completely cutting them off from the breast.

It is funny, I'm realizing I might be the only Child Led Nightweaner here!:LOL I need my own forum. I don't mind being the experiment. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I still nurse her "on demand" (she's not 'demanding' about it though







). She nurses quite a few times during the day and at least once at night. Am I really, truly the only one?














(oh, she's 3 btw).

25 month old twins here and still nursing on demand at night. I am a deep sleeper and barely notice flipping over to whoever is rooting around--I don't think any of us really wake up for it. For me, night nursing is the easiest part of nursing! Now when they both REALLY want to nurse at the same time, in public, that's where I am setting limits these days. Nursing two two year olds at the same time is truly a spectacle, and while I'm all about role modeling and advocacy, I just don't want to show that much skin to the general public. So we do one at a time in public, which I think is quite nice enough of me.







They're starting to joke about it lately: "milky in sandbox!" "milky on swing" "milky on the bicycle." LOL.

Cate


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## mamacate (Mar 29, 2003)

Just wanted to add that I'm glad about this thread. I don't check this forum much because it does always seem to be about weaning. I actually don't have any problem with moms who choose to wean after a year or so, as long as they do it gently and slowly; it's just not what we're choosing to do. It would be interesting to find out if the EBF forum would change in focus, and be more CLW friendly, if there was a separate place for gentle weaning posts. Has anyone officially asked for this subforum? Because it might be a different story in this forum, and as others have said, there is lots of history with threads about BFing older kids, etc. I have a hard time reading the really long threads, so I'd love it if it happened sooner!









This is what's going on for me as a CLW:

The two year mark has been a little difficult for me--I never had any question that I would nurse past a year, and two is the point where I feel a little more "fringe" and it's a little bit of an odd feeling. Even though I've always been fringe and I don't know why it's bothering me more now. Probably this whole gay marriage backlash. Also I think it's pushing my partner's limits and I know her family is uncomfortable.

I feel sometimes like we're poster children for too many causes--gay families, AP, EBF, twins, etc., and then I feel like when my kids are their spirited selves, it reflects on all that, ya know? And that's of course too much for them (but it's all in my head, LOL), but it's also too much for me as a mom. Like if I wasn't still nursing, their spirited behavior would just be spirited, but now it can so easily be chalked up to EBF by mainstream folks.

On the good side, I really appreciate being able to eat the extra calories they drink up and not gain extra weight, LOL. Though it's not what it was 6 months ago, even though they still nurse a lot. I was loving that 3,000 calorie diet and losing weight, LMBO.

OK, that's what I have to say about the support I need for CLW!









Cate


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for sharing your story Cate. That's so great. Oh, and I don't tandem in public either. I wish I was brave enough to but I really only do it with close friends and family that I feel comfortable with. That's awesome that you can sleep through the night nursings too. I'm so jealous!









I have a story I wanted to share with all you other CLWers, if you don't mind...

Quite a few months ago I was nursing my 3 yo at my Aunt's house. She has six kids (mostly all grown now). Three of them self weaned, the other three she cut off when they got close to 4 yo. My Uncle was in the room and he was saying how great it is that I still nurse dd etc. My Aunt asked him how long he thinks they should nurse (I could see something brewing in her) and he said, "Until they don't want the boob anymore." Well she looked so hurt and upset and said, "Really!? Then why when dd was almost 4 were you telling me to stop her and that she was too old and too big for that!" Oh, it was so sad to see her old hurt. Here she had felt pressured by him to end the bfing relationship and I saw so clearly how it was not what she had truly wanted. Seeing her husband tell me to nurse as long as the child needs upset her so much. I realized even more then that I don't want to wean because of someone else's pressures. I saw the look in her eyes. It was very sad. I remember her telling me too how her one dd (who absolutely loved nursing) that she weaned right at 4 yo used to say, "Mommy, let's just hide under the blankets and daddy will never know." She thought it was so sweet. I saw the day that I was over there and how my uncle supported me (but hadn't fully supported her) how much she hadn't truly wanted to wean. I don't want to do that. I'm glad I could learn from it.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

That is such a sad story.

I don't know how I missed your post asking if anyone else doesn't nightwean. I don't nightwean either.

There was a thread some time ago about nightweaning and it seemed like I was the only person there who hadn't nightweaned and had no plans to. It seemed like everyone's reaction to me was "huh? I don't understand. why not?"


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I apologize if this is a little







T but...

Thanks for your post Alice. In notice our dd's are very close in age too. My dd's is 02/25/01. So, would you mind telling me about how your nights are? I realize your babe is quite a bit younger than mine though (8 1/2 mo). I sleep with my nurslings and actually the baby sleeps pretty well. My dd wakes up once or twice to nurse and I just turn to the left, she nurses for a few minutes and then I unlatch her and go back to sleep. My baby wakes up usually only once (sometimes two or three times though) and I just turn to the right and nurse him. I guess it's not a big deal to me because nursing is relaxing and the nursing hormones relax me a lot so I can go right back to sleep afterwards. I guess it helps too that I got in the habit when they were very young of unlatching them right when they're done. Also my aunt, who I mentioned above, never night weaned hers. They just night nursed as long as they nursed. It wasn't a big deal to her. It will be interesting to me to see how night weaning naturally occurs. My 1st self weaned very young and the night weaning just went right along with it. So, because of my dd's age, this is a whole new experience for me.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

MamaCate, I just read your second post. I noticed our "locations" are in an interestingly close proximity!:LOL I can amost see you from where I'm sitting!









I do think that nursing a 2 yo can be very demanding sometimes. They're going through so much and seem to really need it more than ever. I can imagine how "exciting" it must be times two!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Well, like you, I sleep with both my kids in bed with me. My 3yo sometimes wakes to bf once during the night and other times not at all. I just roll onto my right side and bf her back to sleep, and I go right back to sleep, too. My 3mo sleeps every night until 6am! Then he wakes up and I roll onto my left side and bf him.


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## mamacate (Mar 29, 2003)

Hey MamaAllNatural! LOL! I thought I saw you over there!







Hey, can you reach the blanket and the mothering mag with your toes to kick them over here? I want to finish reading the sidebars to that soy article, and they're just out of my reach. I'd ask someone to latch off for a second, but we've just been having a meltdown and my ears need the peace & quiet of nursing for a few minutes.

Thanks! I'm sure I'll be seeing you 'round these parts some more, LOL.

Hus,

Cate


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

WRT the night weaning: I'm definitely not all for that either. However, I did start to night wean several months ago b/c we are TTC #2 and my LP was still very short. She was only nursing for a min or 2 at a time when she woke at night, so I thought she might be able to go a little longer. We started, but then she got sick. Then the holidays came up. Then I just gave up.

She seems to have mostly nightweaned herself though. She usually nurses to sleep at about 8, wakes up around 10 for a little nursey (sometimes a lot), then usually sleeps through to around 6am or so when she has a marathon nursing session.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I don't think I qualify as a night weaner. Even though I'm trying to set a few limitations, our night usually goes like this: nurse to sleep around 9pm; wake to nurse around 11 or 11:30 (a huge improvement over waking every hour!!); wake again around 1am to crawl from the sidecar crib into bed with us and nurse some more (that's when I usually crawl into bed myself); wake again I think around 2 or 3am to nurse some more; nurse again around 4 or 5; nurse continuously from 5-6 or so on until wakeup at 7:30 or 8am.

Then, during the day: nurse 9am; 10:30 or 11am; down for nap around 1pm; a couple of times (or continuously) during the nap; wake around 3:30pm nurse again; nurse again at around 4:30 or 5; nurse again right before and right after dinner; nurse to sleep.

whew.... and he's almost 26 mo! you'd think I had an infant!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Adrianne, it's amazing how 2 yo nurse like newborns most of the time huh? Oh, and just so everyone knows I'm not against night weaning. It's just not for me. I had just started feeling like the only one out there so it's nice to know I'm not alone.









We did have a very wakeful night last night but I don't relate it to the nursing. They did need to nurse back to sleep every time but I wasn't frutrated by the nursing, I was frustrated by the constant waking and fussing. I think my baby is getting some teeth. Not sure what was going on with my 3 yo. At least my 5 1/2 yo sleeps through the night now.









Oh and Cate, here's that magazine you couldn't reach.:LOL


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

What frustrates me is my mommy friends who say "wow, he had a 3 hour nap? you must have gotten a lot done!" and the truth is more than half of that nap ds was latched to me and I was lying in bed!


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I don't nightwean either







I have my 3 yo on 1 side and my 8 mo old on the other. For most of the last 8 mo my older ds has night nursed more than the babe. He seems to be needing the night nursing less and less. For the past few weeks he has been going back to sleep without even asking to nurse. My 8 mo old seems to be sleeping through too. After 3 years of almost NO sleep we are getting well rested!! Of course it all could change tomorrow, but that's okay too







I don't mind the nightwaking really, just a quick nursing session and we are all asleep again (as long as one boy doesn't wake the other.....).


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## ~OceanPotion~ (Apr 30, 2004)

: Im all for child led weaning. I was considering weaning dd almost 3 at night because we were having a rough time but as soon as I had posted things changed and we sleeping great with her nursing maybe once throughout the night.


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## huntersmommy (Dec 28, 2003)

I would love a to chat with likeminded mamas. I am clw and tandum nursing a 5 yrs (july) and 1 yr (21 may) so I think it would be great to have the support of others who know what it is like when a 4 yrs old climbs on your lap for "boobies" :bf


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## Brendi (Apr 20, 2004)

I would like to be part of such a forum. I'm still breastfeeding my 15-month-old







: and couldn't imagine weaning until he's ready!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've never understood about the nightweaning, because for me it's so much easier than nursing during the day. He's not pulling off to look around, or trying to grab my other nipple or playing "How far away can I be from Mamma and still be nursing?" or pulling my hair or doing any of the other things he does. His latch is always perfect in his sleep, and the feeling of relief in my breast...ah!! It's as good as a warm shower. As an added bonus, if I can manage to stay awake I can just stare gooshily at my beautiful little boy, admiring his sweet baby smell and smooth baby skin...























Things were a little different in the newborn period, because my breasts were so much larger than his head that I could only nurse him in the football position, but nightnursing has made pregnancy a bit easier for both of us. Neither of us gets impatient that there's so little milk, there's much less pain because his latch is so much gentler, and we get to snuggle up belly-belly. Who could ask for anything more?

I'm all in favor of child-led weaning. Last month, I came home from a LLL meeting and told Mike about a woman there who's 3.75 year old son, when asked when he will wean, says "Never!" He said "I can see Eli being like that at 4. He sure loves his nursies!" :LOL He's very supportive of child-led weaning. I suppose it's possible that he'll change his mind when Eli's older (he's only 18 months old now) but I don't think so. He thinks nursing is sweet, and as an old man, he's well aware of how short a time 4 or 5 years really is. I personally can't imagine nursing a child older than five, but once upon a time I said I wouldn't nurse a child who was old enough to ask. Of course, that went right out the window when Eli asked to nurse at 7.5 weeks; I wasn't about to wean him then!







:LOL


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I love the new smiley (see siggie)... and yes, night nursing is the easiest of all! I rarely have to help ds latch on and sometimes wake up on my back and he's laying on me nursing.


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## hnybee (Sep 21, 2003)

I am there!!!


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## jazminflower (Jan 4, 2003)

night weaning is not for us either...though whenever nights get a little muc, i mention it and then she sleeps through







glad to see others out there with me...i know dd is no where near ready to be done with her "ah ha boo"

love the new smiley also!


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## Brendi (Apr 20, 2004)

Ds







: is most dependent on the night/nap nursing--that's usually how he falls asleep. And he also want to nurse when he wakes up.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

So, I have a couple questions for all you CLWers, just out of curiosity...

At what age did you stop NIP?
How many people know that you're nursing your older nursling?

For me I stopped NIP when she was closer to 2. I just started making it an "at home" thing since I knew I would start feeling uncomfortable in public as sometimes I don't want to put up with a lot of crap.







: This has never been a real issue. We nurse in people's homes that know we breastfeed but of course now that she's 3 she'd rather be doing all kinds of fun things while we're out instead of nursing anyway. However we were at a birthday party at our neighbor's the other day and she was very tired and asked for "mai mai." (Note, this neighbor was hiding in the house to nurse her 2 week old







) and I said, "Ok, are you getting tired and need to go home for mai mai?" and she said (with some attitude), "No, I just want mai mai at the party!" :LOL She ended up playing more and when I finally got her to come home I nursed her. It was pretty cute though.







I wish I had the guts to NIP w/her. I'm just not that brave.









The people who know I'm still nursing her are my dh (of course







), my sisters and parents (although some may get weird about it soon), my aunt, uncle and cousins (all way supportive), and a few selected friends - (oh and all of you!







). I nurse her in the homes of all these people as well.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

My dd rarely asked to NIP after about 14 months or so... she was always too busy. Of course, I was working too so she was used to going long periods sometimes without nursing (she did drink water from a sippy). Ds however is going strong at almost 13 months. My dd weaned at 20 months (younger than I expected and younger than ds will wean I'm sure).

Right now my thought is screw them if they don't like it, but I am sure it could be intimidating to NIP with a toddler when you don't do it often.


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## shanetedissac (Apr 26, 2002)

My first weaned at age 4 and my second weaned at 2, same time as his older brother. It was interesting that my younger did it the same time as his older. Guess he wanted to be just like him







No idea how long my baby will nurse. With the older two when I was pg I would start to put their nursing into the daily rhythm to get ready for new baby. Since I will not be pg again that will not play into our nursing relationship. So, it will be a whole new ball game.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

My DD is almost 23 months. We still NIP whenever and wherever. I'm hoping I can keep that up as she gets older.


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## Brendi (Apr 20, 2004)

My ds is 15 months. Though he still wants to nurse a lot, he is able to go for longer. I usually nurse him at La Leche League meetings, as he's often getting tired then. I only nursed him once recently at a restaurant.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

DS is nearly 26 mo, and we nurse in public selectively; most places I'm ok with it, and now he hardly ever asks to nurse in a restaurant (unless it's getting late and he's tired; and I will nurse him bc it's easier than dealing with a meltdown). Usually wherever we are is a child friendly place, anyway, like park, playground, playgroup, library, etc. But we try to resist nursing in some other places that are less "accommodating" to us (mainly bc it's not comfortable for me...) although if my ds is very insistent I will nurse him *anywhere* bc otherwise I'm in for a major meltdown.

I am getting nervous tho bc next week we are going to visit relatives in Orlando so,
1. I will be off my "turf" and might be less comfortable, and
2. My sil weaned both ds' at 12 mo so she and bil and mil and their kids are not used to seeing an older nursling; I'm not sure how they will react or how comfortable I will be, because
3. ds is such has such a voracious nursing appetite - he could nurse every 10 min if he had the chance, and he likes to crawl all over me and do acrobatics - you know what I mean mamas!!! So I don't know how that will go over in front of the family!!! We might have to retreat to the bedroom for "quiet time" several times a day!


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## ~OceanPotion~ (Apr 30, 2004)

Dd nurses in public a fair amount still and shes just about 3. Im comfortable and so is she so we'll continue on.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~OceanPotion~*
Dd nurses in public a fair amount still and shes just about 3. Im comfortable and so is she so we'll continue on.









Good for you! That is so awesome.







If we could all just come out of the closet and do this I'm sure the public would get used to it much more quickly. So, have you had any interesting experiences or reactions from NIP w/your dd?


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Ds1 doesn't nurse in public anymore. Its not so much that I am uncomfortable, but he just wanted to nurse EVERY time ds2 did. It was just too much to have to try to juggle a newborn and a 2yo and nurse them both. I don't nurse them at the same time, and I never used a stroller when ds2 was new so it didn't really leave a lot of option. It was more of a phase for ds1 anyway. He hasn't had any real interest in NIP since he learned to walk, too many other interesting things to do. Ds2 already doesn't like to nurse in public. I have to take him to the car just so that he will relax, and even then he will only nurse enough to get him through till we get home. Such a hassle, I wish he was an anywhere nurser like ds1 was.

I am a proud tandem nurser though. I tell anyone who will listen that I am nursing my 8 month old AND my 3 yo. I figure they might think I am crazy (and many do :LOL) but at least it gets the issue out there. Maybe I've opened a few minds too.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I've nursed in public a few times since I've been visibly pregnant. While Eli is only 18 months old, and small for his age at that, I've definately gotten a few looks from people when I nurse over my big belly. :LOL It won't stop me, though. If Eli needs to nurse, he needs to nurse, regardless of where we are.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Yay to the NIP'ing mamas of toddlers and older nurslings! I think the more ppl see extended NIP'ing, the more acceptable it will become. Some ppl are shocked by it simply b/c they've never considered extended nursing before.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

The last time I NIP was when dd was 4 or 5. We took her to the movies with us and I nursed her almost the entire length of the movie. But it was dark so those who did see us didn't say anything. I stopped NIP (in daylight







) when she was around 3, usually only when she couldn't wait.

I think it's beautiful when I see an older nursling breastfeeding. If I knew then what I know now then I wouldn't have hesitated to NIP anywhere/anytime when she was a toddler. I felt kind-of like a freak then, like everyone was watching us, but now when I see a child nursing I can see how sweet it really is...and I wonder what in the heck was I so worried about. It's not a big deal at all. But if I nursed in public NOW then I think it would probably be a scene. :LOL Then again, dd wouldn't ask to NIP now anyway because she only nurses at bedtime, and she's weaned herself down to once a week or less.

I think dh is the only person IRL who knows that dd still nurses. My Mom probably knows too but she hasn't asked me since dd was 6 (and then it was with mixed/hesitant support). It's not that we keep it a secret or anything, dd just doesn't nurse in front of anyone anymore. I don't know if I would want to tell the whole World anyway because I know that people can be hurtful and ignorant and I wouldn't want to open dd nor myself up to that. I feel good about talking about it here though.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I nursed my oldest in public the day before his fifth birthday (which was the day he chose to wean). I've tandem nursed a 4+ year old and a 3 year old (or a 4+ year old and a 1 year old ... or a 3+ year old and a 1 year old!) in public. I have nursed a 23 month old while 9 months pregnant in public. Basically, I nurse my children in public when they ask to nurse in public. There are exceptions, of course, when it's just too inconvenient ... but I never refuse because I'm worried about comments or stares.

My entire familiy knew I nursed Alex until his fifth birthday...I'm not sure some of them know he's weaned







! They (and dh's family as well) all know I triandem nursed and that I continue to tandem nurse my chidren. They have long since discovered that I basically go against many of their preconceptions and that's just the way I am. I'm the only cloth-diapering, ebfing, triandem/tandem nursing, nursing / tandem nursing through pregnancy, homeschooling, tongue-pierced, tattooed family member on either side. Well, there is one exception...my MIL, a former LLL Leader, ebfed her kids!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I don't remember when I "stopped" nursing DD in public. It just got to the point where she was interested in other stuff and I was usually having my hands full w/DS. If she was hurt or upset though, and wanted to nurse that was fine.

DS still is a frequent NIPer (he is 2.5). In addition, I tried night weaning him (just to get him to give me one 4-5 hour break) and it worked for maybe 1-2 weeks then a lot of stuff came up and I gave up. Oh well. I'll hope for sooner, rather than later.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

T

Today my dd said my milk tastes like candy to her!









I would love to hear what some of your verbal nurslings have to say about nursing and your milk.







To me it is so sweet to get some positive feedback and hear about their breastfeeding experience in their own words.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

During my pregnancy, my supply dwindled to practically nothing. One afternoon, Eli asked to nurse and after he latched on he looked up at me and grinned excitedly. I looked down at him and asked him what he was doing and he said "A mamma milk-milk!" and latched on more excitedly. As he was drifting off to sleep, he smiled and said, sweetly "It's milk." It was sooo adorable!









I also think it's sweet when I ask if he wants a milk-milk (what we call his bottles of soymilk) and he says "No, I want a mamma milk-milk. Nursie-nursies, please!"





















Too cute!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

That's so sweet!

Dd has always said that my milk tastes like ice cream.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Rynna, that is so sweet!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

My dd says it is warm and pleasant...and the reason she gets sick now and then is because she isn't nursing..as much...who said that?? :LOL


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Aw, how sweet! My dd nursed until 20 months but was not verbal... to the point that I almost took her to a therapist. We waited though as all of dh's family are late talkers. She started talking a few months after she weaned. Now she's a chatterbox.









Ds is just beginning to talk, but he calls them NaNa.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

My ds and I have had many conversations about nursing. Just last night, after finishing nursing, he starting giggling in this horrible, goofy, fake laugh. I asked him what he was doing and he exclaimed, "I'm giggling! Nusring time makes me so.......HAPPY!" He also tells me he will nurse until he is 10 because "he loves it, just loves it." When he was 2 he went through each of the characters from Blue's Clues and told me which one's were nursing and which ones weren't. Purple Kangaroo is lucky cause he nurses, so does orange kitten. Steve doesn't nurse though because he is over 10 :LOL

When he discovered that not all children nurse (especially older children) he was very upset. He asked if his favourite cousin still nursed (he's 5, but was weaned at 6 mo) he couldn't believe he didn't. All he kept saying was, "Poor Micheal, he doesn't get to nurse. Poor Micheal!!") I love hearing him talk about it. I can't wait to get to that point with ds2


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I forgot to add a tandem nursing funny







Whenever ds2 starts waking up from a nap ds1 goes running over and lays beside him on the bed. He lifts up his shirt (just high enough to expose his belly button) and says, "I'll nurse him Mama". After a few seconds of laying there he sits up and says to his brother, "All done Deshi, you feel better now?". Poor ds2 looks around all sleepy and confused. He is probably wondering where the real breast is :LOL


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
My dd says it is warm and pleasant...and the reason she gets sick now and then is because she isn't nursing..as much...who said that?? :LOL

Joan, did I understand that correctly....is your 8yo dd nursing? If so, I think that's absolutely wonderful!!


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## shanetedissac (Apr 26, 2002)

Regarding what the children say about BF. My two older boys are so cool when it comes to nursing the baby. When every he's fussy it: He wants milk. Or He want 'snackies' (our pet name). Very cool. I hope that continues to when they are adults and have kids.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *akirasmama*
Whenever ds2 starts waking up from a nap ds1 goes running over and lays beside him on the bed. He lifts up his shirt (just high enough to expose his belly button) and says, "I'll nurse him Mama". After a few seconds of laying there he sits up and says to his brother, "All done Deshi, you feel better now?"

:LOL That is SO cute!







When I gave birth to my now 8 1/2 mo, my 3 yo dd (then 2.5) immediately lifted her shirt and said, "Oh, I'll nurse him" and she was dead serious. We have it on tape too. I just love that. My midwife loved it too.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
My dd says it is warm and pleasant...and the reason she gets sick now and then is because she isn't nursing..as much...who said that?? :LOL

Kids are so funny!:LOL This is totally







T but it reminds me of my 5 1/2 yo ds who sent my sister an email saying "Now I'm getting sick because my daddy gave me a red popsicle thing." Well, it was probably because he knows I don't approve of things like that.:LOL Kids just crack me up.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *akirasmama*
I forgot to add a tandem nursing funny







Whenever ds2 starts waking up from a nap ds1 goes running over and lays beside him on the bed. He lifts up his shirt (just high enough to expose his belly button) and says, "I'll nurse him Mama". After a few seconds of laying there he sits up and says to his brother, "All done Deshi, you feel better now?". Poor ds2 looks around all sleepy and confused. He is probably wondering where the real breast is :LOL

That's adorable!









My niece (7) is hilarious about nursing. Every time Eli gets upset she brings him to me and says "I think he needs a nursie-nursie". One day I came home from a doctors appointment and she said "Rynna, your son is very confused! He kept looking at me like I had nursie-nursies! I don't have boobs, I do not have any nursies! Go nurse your son!"







: I almost hit the floor.

She was very depressed when she found out that she wasn't still nursing at Eli's age (she was weaned around 4 months).







My younger niece is pretty funny too. We're always telling her to speak quietly when Eli is nursing because a) he bites if he gets startled and b)he's usually falling asleep these days if he's nursing. She whispered "Eli is nursing! Go Eli go! Be gentle!" When Eli starts to nurse she always says "Shhh! Eli is nursing! Goodnight, EliBean!" in her whispery voice. Super cute!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Please tell me that I'm not the only mother here who is CLW a child over 5....anyone else out there???


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

:

no...you are not the only one









Ellie may be the exception to the rule that they won't go off to college nursing...

It is just so natural here. She is a very sweet and loving girl. She is also independent and secure. Although she nurses sporadically, she doesn't like to think about weaning. Her attachment object always has been...me









We sometimes kid that Ben will wean before Ellie. But he seems pretty interested, at least at night and when he wakes up!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Woohoo!!!!!! I'm so glad you are here Joan!!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Give us another 6 months Mother Sunshine and we'll join your over-5 club


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

We aren't there yet, but it sure is great to read about because I KNOW we will be there one day. Ds will not wean for a long, long time yet. That's okay by me, it is really such a small thing for me to do but it means the whole world to him


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## Brendi (Apr 20, 2004)

I don't think anyone *plans* to nurse her child for a certain length of time. One might think, "Oh, I'll nurse him for two years," but it turns out that he's not ready to wean until 4 or 5, or whenever. :bf


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brendi*
I don't think anyone *plans* to nurse her child for a certain length of time. One might think, "Oh, I'll nurse him for two years," but it turns out that he's not ready to wean until 4 or 5, or whenever. :bf

But I did. With my dd I said 6 months (I seriously didn't know anyone IRL who was currently nursing). Then it was a year... then finally till she was ready to wean, which was earlier than I expected (20 months). Thank goodness there were a few moms who did the same thing because I was hanging out at babycenter.com where it's cool to wean at 4 weeks old









This time I set no goal at all. Just when he's done.


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## Selissa (Jun 15, 2003)

Wow, what a greatthread...I haven't been coming here much...mostly cuase i have nothing to contribute to weaning discussions...since my baby is young and i'm not gonna, wouldn't know how if i wanted to. I really hope we do get a sepreate forum wow woul that be cool.

My ds is 15 mnts (meep he'll be 16 mnts on the 25th!) and mostly preverbal. Your stories of talking nurslings litterally brought joyous tears to my eyes. i can't wait unitl my boobah is old enough to talk to me aobut nursing...

We still nurse in public constantly, if fact more than pre 1 because he used to be so everwhelmed that all he would do is stare out of the sling. now he is not afraid to yank that shirt up lol

We will be CLnightweaning...nursing him at doesn't bother me at all at night..of course I might be a bit spoiled cause ds only wakes up to nurse at 5, ee and nurse at 6:30 and the n wakes up at eight...he very rarely wakes up earlier but if he does i usually sleep through it.

someday we will be in tthe over 5 club i almost garountee it..considering that at 16 months there are **** many days that he by choice doesn't eat anything but breastmilk...well i jsut don't see him weaning anytime soon

anyway thanks fo this awsome thread. it's nice to know i'm tlkaing to people who won't freak out when i say that if ds weans before 5 i'll be a little dissapointed (becuse for some reason i have it in my head that he'll nurse at least this long)

I am lucky in tha dh totally supportws CLW no matter how old the child is..yay dh he has actually exppressed sadnessthat we will have hide it someday if ds gets old enough...Dh is an awsome daddy

sory if this is scattered I'm tired..very very tired


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

When ds is nursing I often ask him *"is there milk?*" and he stops and looks up at me like I'm crazy, with the *"of course there's milk, what are you talking about mom?"* look in his eyes. Then I ask *"what does it taste like?"* and he pulls off just long enough to say *"almond milk"* and goes right back to it.

So two days ago we went to the ped for his 2 year checkup. She kept saying things like *"he's using you as a pacifier and a bottle"* and *"you need more sleep at night"* and *"he's nursing at night bc he's in your bed and is expecting to nurse"* and *"I'm concerned that he'll have cavities from nursing all night"* and *"you don't want to overtax yourself and drive yourself crazy; moms can be so self-sacrificing"* etc. etc. I was just like, whatever, it is what it is. But when I asked her how are her kids doing (similar age as ds) she said *"oh the usual - active - regular colds, that sort of thing"* and I wanted to say (but didn't) *"oh, you know, ds NEVER EVER gets sick and I'm sure it's bc he's still breastfeeding!!!"*


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
Give us another 6 months Mother Sunshine and we'll join your over-5 club









Thanks Callmemama


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
]"he's using you as a pacifier and a bottle"[/COLOR][/B] and *"you need more sleep at night"* and *"he's nursing at night bc he's in your bed and is expecting to nurse"* and *"I'm concerned that he'll have cavities from nursing all night"* and *"you don't want to overtax yourself and drive yourself crazy; moms can be so self-sacrificing"* etc. etc. [/B][/COLOR]

UGH! I've heard similar things from waaaay too many health professionals.

If I could've responded I'd have said: "First of all, pacifiers and bottles are artificial forms of nipples/breasts, not the other way around! Our babes are using our breasts the way they're MEANT to be used. Secondly, breastmilk helps PREVENT cavities. Third, I'd probably get LESS sleep if he wasn't in bed with me (getting up to tend to his needs istead of rolling over to attend to his needs!). And lastly, I think I'd be overtaxing myself if I didn't get the chance to sit down and nurse my kids every once in a while throughout the day! Oh, and you can tell by the few times we've ever been to your office that my son doesn't get sick, thanks to all the antibodies he's getting through my breastmilk!

We don't have any health insurance at the moment (and I"m a nervous wreck, as we've already had stitches and a broken arm during the past year!), but as soon as we do I'm supposed to make appointments for my kids' yearly exams. I don't have to worry about the ebfing/clwing, as my pediatrician knows how I stand on those issues ... however, we're going to be discussing vax issues, which I'm dreading! I just arm myself with info and pray for the best!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

That is so frustrating (the doc's comments). You'd think they'd want the kid to be healthy, you know? My Aunt has had to family doctors. Her kids are mostly grown so the first doctor she had is now retired so she had to get a new one about 5-10 years ago. Anyway, both of the doctors would NOT take a child as a patient unless they were being breastfed. If my aunt wouldn't have breastfed he would've refused to be her kid's doctor because it's too much of a health risk in his POV. Can you imagine the effect that kind of doctor's attitude could have on breastfeeding culturally in the US? These doctors also advocate homebirth and are against circumcision...and one of them is Jewish.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

You know, for the entire visit with the ped, my ds had his face buried in my chest and was nursing (he was being shy?). :LOL

Anyway, the ped did comment on how healthy he was and all. And, oddly enough, she is my LLL Leader's ped. She's not totally against nursing, but she's not a huge advocate of it past the first year!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

T MAN are you about to win the world's record fastest accumulation of posts to senior membership???


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
My Aunt has had to family doctors. Her kids are mostly grown so the first doctor she had is now retired so she had to get a new one about 5-10 years ago. Anyway, both of the doctors would NOT take a child as a patient unless they were being breastfed. If my aunt wouldn't have breastfed he would've refused to be her kid's doctor because it's too much of a health risk in his POV. Can you imagine the effect that kind of doctor's attitude could have on breastfeeding culturally in the US? These doctors also advocate homebirth and are against circumcision...and one of them is Jewish.

Wow! Where did/does your Aunt live?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
So two days ago we went to the ped for his 2 year checkup. She kept saying things like *"he's using you as a pacifier and a bottle"* and *"you need more sleep at night"* and *"he's nursing at night bc he's in your bed and is expecting to nurse"* and *"I'm concerned that he'll have cavities from nursing all night"* and *"you don't want to overtax yourself and drive yourself crazy; moms can be so self-sacrificing"* etc. etc.

I've been thinking about your post AdrianneWe and the more I think about it the more frustrated I feel because I wonder how many mothers take her advice/opinion seriously.

A good way to wake her up (or shut her up) in a kind way is to ask her to back up her info with the resources and qualifications for which she is giving this professional opinion...when and where did she learn about breastfeeding, what her experiences are with breastfeeding children beyond 1yr.. etc. As a professional physician giving out "professional" advice, she should have info to back herself up. It's a shame that dr.'s feel the need to give parenting advice yet the only education they have is from being a parent themselves. I know 2 other ped.'s (besides dd's), I'm sure they are fine doctors but they are so far from being good parents...they're rarely home and they didn't even bf at all. And it shows in their children.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

mother_sunshine said:


> Wow! Where did/does your Aunt live?
> 
> 
> > Northern California.
> ...


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

More on doctors......

I feel pretty good about educating my doctor about EN. I avoid docs generally, but had to take ds in when he was 20 months. At our previous visit she was questioning why we were still nursing, she only had one other patient that had nursed til 18 mo. When I brought him in he was so sick (horrible virus) and had not kept anything down for days. She said the breastfeeding is probably what kept him from severe dehydration and was very glad I was still nursing him. Now, *I* don't need her approval, but I feel good about it because she will have some positive extended nursing stories to share with other patients







She would probably flip if she knew I had a UC and am tandem nursing though :LOL


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*







T MAN are you about to win the world's record fastest accumulation of posts to senior membership???









Mama, I'm dying to see your senior title! I hope you have one all picked out!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

T There it is! 1,000 posts!







I am actually having a hard time choosing between a few. Hmmm...once I pick one do I have the option to change it?


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## hnybee (Sep 21, 2003)

I don't know if it is where I live, or what but I NEVER see older babies or toddlers nursing in public. I rarely see ANY babies being nursed in public. It's very frusterating for me. My son is 13 months old and I get glares from people every where we go. I'm not sure if it's because he is a toddler (i still see him as a baby) or if it is because he is a boy. people are just generally not happy about me nursing in public. And my son is not happy if i try to tell him "not now" or "wait until we get home". I've never restricted him before and we both enjoy frequent nursing at home. I'm not sure what i should do. I don't want to have to live in a cave to be able to continue to nurse Edward when and where he wants.

Why can't people be okay with it? This one mom actuall asked the waitress to move her and her children to another table. She made it seem like i was naked and doing something sexual. Instead of just feeding my baby.

-melissa


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Perhaps I'm a spiteful person, but I get a wicked little kick when ppl are offended. Don't get me wrong, I nurse very discreetly and I don't think anyone has ever caught even a glimpse of skin (except for one time when DD was 2 weeks old and I was still learning how to nurse in the sling...but that's a whole 'nother story LOL). I don't announce I'm NIP'ing or make a big deal. But when I catch somebody giving me a dirty look, I usually give them my best beatific smile and look down at DD adorinly. Maybe I need counseling *blush*


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Wow! Where did/does your Aunt live?

Northern California.

Mother Sunshine you are in Hawaii right? I have heard that it is the most breastfeeding friendly state and that it's not uncommon to see a 3 or 4 yo NIP. I want to live there.









A friend of mine is from Hawaii. Her girls are grown now but she said (in the 80's) she would NIP w/them when they were 5 & 6 years old. She didn't mind at all. She really liked making a statement!:LOL


That's so cool. If I had to live anywhere but Hawaii I would live in No. Cal. I grew up in So. Cal. and was like a black sheep (which is partly what led me here). But in the Summer as a kid I would visit my grandmother in Corralitos (which I suppose is more Central Ca. but still had the No. Ca. feel). She lived off the grid and on the land in the middle of a beautiful redwood forest. I think those trips are what helped form who I am.

I can't speak for the other islands but it isn't unusual to see a toddler bf on the Hilo side of the Big Island. There is a lot of tolerance here so even if someone opposed bf an older child they most likely wouldn't say anything. At least nobody ever said anything to me. I have seen many mothers bf their toddlers here with comfort. I haven't seen anybody NIP a child beyond 4 though, but I sure would jump for joy if I did! Where did/does your friend in HI live?

Doctors are not as "with it" as those in No. Ca. though. Dd's Ped. suggested that I wean at 1 year







. That was when I realized that we should go to her only for medical advice and nothing else.

P.S.
hnybee, hang in there. It's not you. Maybe try to find a like-minded LLL group for extra support in your area. There are more loving mamas like you there, you just have to weed out the ugly to find the gems. And you always have us!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraB*
Perhaps I'm a spiteful person, but I get a wicked little kick when ppl are offended. Don't get me wrong, I nurse very discreetly and I don't think anyone has ever caught even a glimpse of skin (except for one time when DD was 2 weeks old and I was still learning how to nurse in the sling...but that's a whole 'nother story LOL). I don't announce I'm NIP'ing or make a big deal. But when I catch somebody giving me a dirty look, I usually give them my best beatific smile and look down at DD adorinly. Maybe I need counseling *blush*

Woohoo! Right on NoraB!
















P.S.
THEY'RE the ones who need counseling.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hnybee*
My son is 13 months old and I get glares from people every where we go. I'm not sure if it's because he is a toddler (i still see him as a baby) or if it is because he is a boy.

That's crazy! Is he really big for his age, do people think he's six? I can't imagine anyone blinking at a 13 month old nursing, unless they were huge.. and even then, it's not right.









When Eli was about four months old I was nursing him in the car and this woman walked out of a store with her kids and gave me the nastiest look. I had the window down, and my mother was talking about how I could cover up, but I said I wasn't doing anything dirty that needed to be covered.This woman gave me a really nasty look, so I said really loudly "Other people's problems with breastfeeding aren't my concern. They shouldn't hold it against me because they didn't want to do the best thing for their own kids."*** She gave me the finger on her way out and I happily flipped her back. My mother has never brought it up again, except to say that she never NIP at all, that nursing barely happened in the house. (My father was psychotic). I think she's a bit jealous.

***I've found that the women who have issues with NIP are not those who tried nursing and failed, but those who never tried at all. The ones who tried to do it are always really impressed that I am doing it, and while they feel a little sad that they couldn't for whatever reason, I've never had one try to make me feel crappy about it. The ones who start out with abm, on the other hand, tend to be not only uneducated on the subject but really nasty about it.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*







T There it is! 1,000 posts!










Congratulations!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I am actually having a hard time choosing between a few.


Really? Are you going to share them with us and let us help you pick?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Hmmm...once I pick one do I have the option to change it?


Yeah, but they charge $2.50 for that, now.


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## hnybee (Sep 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
... and gave me the nastiest look. I had the window down, and my mother was talking about how I could cover up, but I said I wasn't doing anything dirty that needed to be covered.This woman gave me a really nasty look, so I said really loudly "Other people's problems with breastfeeding aren't my concern. They shouldn't hold it against me because they didn't want to do the best thing for their own kids."*** She gave me the finger on her way out and I happily flipped her back.

I think you are my new best friend!! I laughed so hard, i almost fell out of my chair. my kids were looking at me like i had finally gone around the bend!!

But honestly, sometimes that is what i feel like doing!!

Maybe we should all move to hawaii!! Sounds like a mama party to me.

And thanks mama sunshine. that helps to know that i am not alone. i come here mostly for encouragement.

-melissa


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

*Hnybee,*

Your ds is definately still a baby and needs to nurse when he needs to nurse. Do try to find other mamas who support NIP. My baby is 9 months old now but I swear people get uncomfortable even when I'm nursing a newborn. You might find it helpful to just focus on your baby. Or once you get situated you can make eye contact with passerbys and smile. It's hard for them not to smile back. I usually strike up a conversation with someone nearby too. I guess it is a bit rebellious...like, "Actually, you _will_ be comfortable with this!":LOL

*Rynna,*

Loved the story!:LOL Of course we're all thinking it, but I'm glad someone can say it!









*Mother Sunshine,*

I'll have to ask my friend which part of Hawaii she lived in. It's funny, everyone who has lived in Hawaii or been to Hawaii tells me I belong there. I haven't even visited. I so want to.









*SBF,*

Thanks!







I would love for you guys to help me pick. I thought of putting something funny. Since it's "status" I wanted to put "producing about 2 gallons a day." But I don't know if everyone will get it. Do you guys? (as in my lactation status). I also thought of putting something about being an advocate of everthing in my sig line (which I am) but thought maybe some will think I mean the SAHM part too and be offended. I thought of just putting the intactivist part or something geared towards the lactivist part...Hmmm...I don't know...








Any feedback?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I like "producing about 2 gallons a day." I think people will get it. If you did one that promoted the things in your sig line, how would you word it? I don't think there's anything wrong with promoting stay at home motherhood. Anti-circ by itself or pro-bf by itself would also be good. I guess I'm not much help. It would be easier for me to pick a favorite if I knew how you would word each one.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Post a poll MAN! I'll help you pick a senior title!

So today I commented to my dh: "my period is coming again (this is only my third one since ds was born; AF returned right after his second bday) and it seems like every time I get it ds starts to nurse every hour like the milk has changed or there is less of it or something from the hormones" and dh said: "I wonder if this is part of child led weaning - when the milk starts to change or go (I think he said "pull the plug" on it or something??) the child is encouraged to nurse less and wean."

But, hey, that's NOT what's happening! I'm getting no sleep (or even less sleep; I always get no sleep) bc he's crawling all over me night and day saying "switch sides" "this side" "nurse that side" and he's 38lbs and that's a lot to maneuver all night long, kwim???


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

Man, where have I been? I think i posted on this thread early on...anyway, I'm in the over-5 club, too...well, dd is.

In our case, I think CLW would be never wean if she had her druthers...her latch is bad now, and so usually she doesn't get any milk at all, but every few weeks or so she'll ask. She thinks God had a good idea making breasts so soft so they can "give pillow comfort when they can't give milk, " she sighs.

When I asked her what the milk tasted like, she said "it's sweet." then paused, sighed, and said, "you know, mom...it tastes like love." I think I'll be hugging that moment close on my deathbed when I'm like 100 or something.

Years ago, when Delia was still a sling babe, the 2 of us did a walk for earthquake victims in El Salvador...It was a really hilly route, and she ended up in the sling after the first mile or so. An older woman joined us and walked along, chatting with me. After a bit, dd neeeded to latch on--I think she was over 3, and I was just a little embarrassed that now I'd have to explain my alternative parenting yada yada to this nice lady who was keeping me company. But I helped dd anyway, and the lady said, "It's so nice to see a mom attending so lovingly to her child's needs, meeting her where she is. I nursed my last until he was 4. He still remembers it." and when her tall 20 yr old son caught up to us with some of his buddies, she introduced him; he actually, with no self-consciousness at all, said, "Nursing's the best thing for a little kid. I sure liked it," and wished me luck.
I felt like I had entered an alternative universe. I never saw either of them again...sometimes I've almost convinced myself that they were actually angels. Anyway, thought that was a nice CLW story to share!!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I'm leaning towards this:

*"Producing about 2 gallons a day and advocating everything in my sig line"*

How much do you suppose I really am producing?







My 9 mo is on 100 % breastmilk and eats a lot and my 3 yo is on probably 50% breastmilk, not because she doesn't eat much food, but because she takes so much milk when she nurses!:LOL It would be interesting to know. I just think it's kind of funny (but maybe it's just me







) and I also want to reinforce to any woman who reads it that we (women) _do_ make milk, and plenty of it. Ugh! I find everything I type now I'm afraid will offend someone. It's really frustrating.

Feel free to give me any ideas. Hopefully some of you have gotten to know me a little by now


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Thank you darlindeliasmom for sharing that story. As a Mama who sometimes begins to falter in her choice to extended brestfeed her breastmilk loving 3 year old, this was food for my soul.










Ann


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh yes Darlindeliasmom, your whole post was so sweet!







Thank you for sharing it with us.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

When Eli was 4 months old, at any given moment I could pump between 8 and 15 oz; since the baby always takes more than the pump, I'd estimate his intake to have been between 12 and 20 oz each nursing session... an average of 6/day and 3/night, so nine sessions gives me 108-180oz/day. 128oz=1 gallon, so I guess I was averaging just over a gallon of nursies a day. Yikes, it seems like a lot when you say it that way. :LOL

Quote:

So today I commented to my dh: "my period is coming again (this is only my third one since ds was born; AF returned right after his second bday) and it seems like every time I get it ds starts to nurse every hour like the milk has changed or there is less of it or something from the hormones" and dh said: "I wonder if this is part of child led weaning - when the milk starts to change or go (I think he said "pull the plug" on it or something??) the child is encouraged to nurse less and wean."








:LOL







: :LOL







I don't know about you, but this is definately not the truth in my case.. AF came to visit me 3.5 weeks after Eli was born. I thought it was a joke, but just over a week later I ovulated and I knew better. :LOL I had regular periods from then until I got pregnant again when Eli was 10 months old.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darlindeliasmom*
Years ago, when Delia was still a sling babe, the 2 of us did a walk for earthquake victims in El Salvador...It was a really hilly route, and she ended up in the sling after the first mile or so. An older woman joined us and walked along, chatting with me. After a bit, dd neeeded to latch on--I think she was over 3, and I was just a little embarrassed that now I'd have to explain my alternative parenting yada yada to this nice lady who was keeping me company. But I helped dd anyway, and the lady said, "It's so nice to see a mom attending so lovingly to her child's needs, meeting her where she is. I nursed my last until he was 4. He still remembers it." and when her tall 20 yr old son caught up to us with some of his buddies, she introduced him; he actually, with no self-consciousness at all, said, "Nursing's the best thing for a little kid. I sure liked it," and wished me luck.
I felt like I had entered an alternative universe. I never saw either of them again...sometimes I've almost convinced myself that they were actually angels. Anyway, thought that was a nice CLW story to share!!


What a BEE-YOO-TIFUL story!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

WOW I love that story too! I think they were angels!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
I guess I was averaging just over a gallon of nursies a day. Yikes, it seems like a lot when you say it that way. :LOL

Wow, so maybe I'm actually putting out more than two gallons a day!:LOL It's amazing when you really think about it. Our bodies are awesome.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I know!

Just the other day, I was talking to Mike about how I'm really excited that I'll be making milk again soon, and how I got all happy when I noticed I was leaking colostrum in the shower. Is it strange that even a year and a half after my son's birth, I'm still totally impressed by the fact that my body makes food for him? It just blows my mind. I can't get over how cool it is. I make milk. Better milk than you could ever find in a grocery store. Sweet, perfect-for-my-babies, milk comes right out of my body. I don't have to wash anything or carry anything extra. Wow, that's nifty! I still think it's really cool and I'm still really thrilled with just the idea, to say nothing of the reality.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Darlindeliasmom, that was so sweet, thanks for sharing...and welcome to the over-5 club!









M.A.N. I think "Producing about 2 gallons a day" sounds great. The "and advocating everything in my sig line" is kind-of a given and it takes away from the other part.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback Mother Sunshine.







I think you're right about the sig line. I came across an old post where someone was saying that she "inwardly cringes" when she sees a sig line that lists things like babywearing, cloth diapering, etc. "like they're trying to proove they are worthy of posting here." I put those things in my sig line because they are a big part of who I am, what I'm proud of and mostly because I'm advocating them, here and IRL. I guess I thought maybe some other MDC members could be misunderstanding as well so I thought I'd make it _very_ clear that these are things I fully endorse.







I really have a hard time playing down my advocate tendencies.:LOL I'm so bad.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I agree with MotherSunshine - go with "prod ab 2 gal a day" - and about the sig lines, I like what moms are advocating in their sigs, and I like the interesting quotes, and I can't remember ever not liking a sig!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
I can't remember ever not liking a sig!









Me too! Actually, Mother Sunshine's has made me wonder if I should just teach my baby to say aloha instead of hello and goodbye. He started saying "hi" a week or two ago and it made me think about this.









Also, do you guys think I should state what it is I am producing because I think maybe only the women in this particular forum will get it.







:


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I'm undecided 'cause I am only just now starting to even think about weaning - if, when, how.







:


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*







Me too! Actually, Mother Sunshine's has made me wonder if I should just teach my baby to say aloha instead of hello and goodbye. He started saying "hi" a week or two ago and it made me think about this.









Also, do you guys think I should state what it is I am producing because I think maybe only the women in this particular forum will get it.







:

I think that the majority of those at MDC would understand that you're producing mother's milk, especially after reading your sig line. I like your sig line too, BTW, I just meant that I didn't think it was necessary to restate it under your title.
















T
Just so there aren't any misunderstandings with my sig line, I just wanted to say that meeting and leaving everyone with aloha doesn't mean to just say "aloha" to everyone, it means to _show_ your aloha to everyone you meet. The aloha spirit=sharing love, compassion and kindness. Duke K. was known for sharing the aloha spirit with everyone he met, whatever their color/creed/culture, no matter who they were. ....But saying aloha is good too







, especially if it's a child. It's a good way to share aloha.








I am by no means an expert on the Hawaiian way BTW, I have only been in Hawaii for 10 years, but I have learned (and continue to learn) that treating people with the aloha spirit is a wonderful way to live.







That's why I love that quote so much. Especially knowing that it came from someone like Duke Kahanamoku who was an icon of surfing, swimming, and the aloha spirit.


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## ObsessiveAndrea (Aug 14, 2003)

: Mommas!
I am new to this thread. I am Andrea and I am EN/CLW Kyra Erineil, who is 19 months old. Anyhow I will be looking forward to that new subforum.


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

Just wanted to pop in to say thanks for all the kind words about my little "angelic" encounter story...
and to say to MAN that I think the "gallons" tag is just great!!! Makes me wonder just how many gallons in total I produced for this one child over the years...


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darlindeliasmom*
Makes me wonder just how many gallons in total I produced for this one child over the years...

It's amazing, isn't it?









Thanks so much everyone for your input. I think I'm going with the "gallons" one.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

A few of us tandem nursers were discussing our milk output/day at LLL one night. We were speculating how many litres (were Canadian







) a day we must produce. Amazing!!

My poor 3 yo has been so sad when nursing lately. He wants to nurse all the time andhas been regressing in other areas. He seemed so troubled lately and we couldn't figure out why. Last night he started crying after he finished nursing and asked if he could nurse again in the morning. I told him that of course he could!! I talked to him about how he could nurse when he was 4 if he wanted to, and that he could nurse when he was 5 if he was not ready to stop, and he could nurse AS LONG AS HE FELT HE NEEDED/WANTED TO!! He relaxed instantly and had the first real, happy, relaxed smile I've seen in weeks. Apparently he had some weird idea that he would have to stop nursing soon







I wonder if someone said something to him? My poor boy!! I am glad I figured it out and we could talk about it. He is so much happier today


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

OMG! I bet someone told poor Akira he's too big or something.














:


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

FreeRangeMama(did you just change your handle?!) I'd be willing to bet that Akira picked up on something someone said at a LLL meeting. Eli freaked out a few months ago and started telling me "I'm a baby! Eli's a baby!" every time he wanted to nurse. I couldn't figure out where he got the idea that he might not be allowed to nurse at all until I realized that just the day before I'd been having a conversation with a friend who was tandem nursing and talking about weaning her older child. She was getting frustrated because the older one was getting big and the younger one wasn't a peanut either and she was soooo tired of nursing both so she was encouraging the older one to cut back on his nursing. I had no idea that Eli was even paying attention to the conversation, although I should have been clued in when Eli went to her younger son and patted him on the head, saying "Gentle to baby".









At any rate, Eli was fully aware by then that we were having a baby (though I'm still not sure that he's clear that we're keeping her! :LOL) and somehow related to the older child. For the next week or two, every time he wanted to nurse he'd tell me first that he was a baby. "I'm a baby! I need to nurse." He'd put his arms around my neck and say "I'm your baby, I'm a baby!" over and over again.







It was enough to snap my heart in two. I've never mentioned Eli weaning at all, because he *is* still a baby, but he made the connection. Now when we go to LLL meetings and someone brings up weaning, he comes to me and asks for hugs and kisses, if not nursies. Like he's just making sure I haven't changed my mind.







Such a BeanBean!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

What a sweetheart!

My daughter tells me (and other people), "Big babies need Mommy Milk, too."


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Did anyone here add the "My Breastfeeding Idol" under my name?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I didn't do it, but don't be mad! It's a compliment! You're someone's breastfeeding idol!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I think it's a great DDDDC and very sincere. It wasn't me though. I'm sure we'll find out who soon.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

So I've been DDDDC'd! Thanks for the PM SBF, I had no idea. Whew, this has been such a bad day (not related to the DDDDC).

Thanks to whomever it was.






















It went from bringing tears to my eyes (I thought someone trolled my account) to making my day a little brighter. I need to lighten up.







:LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Sorry you had such a bad day Mother Sunshine.







What a way to have it brightened though, huh? You are officially a breastfeeding idol! I'm glad you love it now.







I can't wait to find out who dunnit!:LOL Do you have any suspects?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hmmmmmm......







......







....No, but I hope they come out







: :LOL

I'm going to have a little fun this week!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

It wasn't me...even tho you are!! (my "idol")


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Ah shucks, thanks Joan







(I really thought it was you.)

Hmmmm....


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

What a nice DDDDC!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I love it!







My very first DDDDC!

<------------------------

Oh, Mother Sunshine, you are my prime suspect!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I GOT ONE TOO! :LOL

Congrats on yours, Mama. And I see you got your senior title, too!









If my DDDDC did come from someone on this thread, THANK YOU!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I love it!







My very first DDDDC!

<------------------------

Oh, Mother Sunshine, you are my prime suspect!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I knew it!







Thank you, I really love it!







That was so sweet.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
A few of us tandem nursers were discussing our milk output/day at LLL one night. We were speculating how many litres (were Canadian







) a day we must produce. Amazing!!


Hmmmm....now you have me wondering how much I was producing when I was TRIandem nursing with massive oversupply......


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

You're very welcome Mama


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm so happy! I'm hearing lots of swallowing when Eli nurses. It's still colostrum, but he's definately getting more than he was before. So here's a question for you experienced mammas: With Eli, I had a scary oversupply & overactive letdown. During the pregnancy, my milk dried up almost completely, but now I've got a fair amount of colostrum. Is there a chance that I won't have an oversupply with two kids nursing? Will my letdown be as pronounced as it was with just Eli? What can I expect?


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Rynna,

I did find my oversupply was most pronounced with my first. I do just get tons and tons of milk though and it sounds like you'll be the same. It's nice when you're tandeming though because the older one can really help you out when you get engorged.







Also, you can put pressure on the nipple you're not nursing with (if you're just nursing one, that is







) and the counterpressure helps prevent a lot of leaking. I came up with sly ways to do this in public, just putting my arm against my breast, and I was able to do away with the nursing pads pretty early on. HTH.

Mother Sunshine,

Did you ever figure out who DDDDC'd you? Maybe you'll need to start a thread in TAO. I'm still lovin' mine!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

It really depends on the person. I've heard from many moms who were relieved that they didn't have oversupply with their second or when tandem nursing. Others have said that their oversupply returned, but at least they had another nursling to help out!

I had oversupply with my first, and when tandem nursing, and when triandem nursing. LLL Leaders, a lactation consultant and other breastfeeding professionals have no idea why I have such a massive supply nor why none of the methods to get it to decrease to a more normal level work. The only thing that gets rid of my oversupply is pregnancy, when I produce milk at a more normal level. I actually think my supply is finally calming down a bit now, with 2 nurslings ages almost 2 and almost 4. Either that or I'm pregnant....


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I voted yes please


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Oops! I've been away for a few days! mother_sunshine, it was I.







I am just so impressed with how long you've been nursing. My daughter is 18 months and I will nurse her as long as she chooses. Good for you!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Wow! Thanks Heavenly!







That was so sweet of you!

I'm so glad to finally find out who did it! :LOL


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Also, you can put pressure on the nipple you're not nursing with (if you're just nursing one, that is







) and the counterpressure helps prevent a lot of leaking. I came up with sly ways to do this in public, just putting my arm against my breast, and I was able to do away with the nursing pads pretty early on. HTH.

Counterpressure never worked for me; I'd just end up with sticky fingers and wet clothing. :LOL The only thing that sufficed was wearing a nursing pad & changing it immediately after I nursed.

Besides that, my let down was so forceful that I needed both hands to deal with it; one to keep Eli from rolling off my lap, the other with a cup and a paper towel. When my milk let down, Eli would gag and pull off until he was fully 6.5 months old. I'd have a cup ready to catch the milk that was literally pouring out of my breast, and when that finished I'd lean my head down towards my breast (the slightest movment would set it off again two or three more times) or tap it until milk stopped shooting out. Then I'd blot with the paper towel and Eli would latch back on to nurse. If I hadn't nursed in several hours, there'd be milk *everywhere*... people would get sprayed with it when I pulled my breast out, to say nothing of the letdown which left everything around me smelling like milk until Eli was nearly 9 months old. :LOL


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Counterpressure never worked for me either. When only nursing one child, I used to hold a cup under the leaking breast while nursing. I had such major oversupply that I used to leak 4-5 oz at a time. Needless to say, I had quite a supply in the freezer when ds#1 was a baby...I never did need to use it, but donated it to a mom who needed it.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I used to let it leak into a cup for my older ds who wasn't nursing anymore.









Mom2three, I read your story in Adventures. Loved it!


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I used to let it leak into a cup for my older ds who wasn't nursing anymore.









Mom2three, I read your story in Adventures. Loved it!

















Thanks!


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## Brendi (Apr 20, 2004)

For those mothers who are nursing children 5 and older, do you nurse in public? Just curious.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I probably nursed Ellie in public until she was 3 or so...I don;t really remember. I don't really nurse Ben out much. We don't have the occassion to. If he got hurt or something, of course I would.

It seems we just sort of passed the need to do that, as he mostly nurses to sleep at night and upon waking...or if I sit in one place too long :LOL


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brendi*
For those mothers who are nursing children 5 and older, do you nurse in public? Just curious.

I haven't nursed a five year old in public...but I have nursed a few-days-from-being-five-year old in public and would definitey nurse a five year old in public if any of my children nurse for that long.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Hello Mamas! I just wanted to report in after the 3-week-long, in-law visit (which I posted about in the old "support only" thread). We elected to not mention that 4 1/2 yo ds is still nursing. He only nurses to sleep now, so it was a non-issue (I guess that answers the question on whether I nurse a 5yo in public







). The visit went amazingly well and ds is thrilled to know his long-distance grandma







That should teach me to stay in today and quit worrying about what "might happen"!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I'm glad it went well for you callmemama! Nursing is a personal decision that they don't have to know anyway, YKWIM? We're headed to MIL's tomorrow for a few days. I don't expect the subject to come up now that dd is down to once or twice a month....but if it does then it does. I'm not hiding but I'm also not opening myself to her opinion. She is a social worker so she could definitely benefit from our experience but maybe I'll open that can of worms when dd is completely weaned.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brendi*
For those mothers who are nursing children 5 and older, do you nurse in public? Just curious.

No we don't, but if dd needed to then we probably would go someplace more private like a quiet nook somewhere. If we were in a park or someplace peaceful with a bunch of other nursing mamas then I think that would be neat to NIP together (if dd wanted to)....but unfortunately that hasn't happened since dd was 2 or 3. The last time we NIP was when she was around 4 or 5 (memory fades quickly, lol), during a nighttime movie in the theater. That was the last time she asked to nurse in public.

Breastfeeding, for us, has evolved from the "I-need-it-NOW" of toddlerhood to the "nursing-makes-me-feel-relaxed-and-sleepy" of the school years.....so NIP hasn't really been a necessity for a few years now.


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## emomama (Jun 1, 2004)

i voted yes for the CLW forum... as a newbie and currently undecided on the issue, i would love a place to lurk and learn from more experienced mamas.







:


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

My DD has been so cute lately. She's started saying "side" when she wants me to switch sides and has been "nursing" her own babies.

Yesterday, I heard her making crying noises and saying "no, no." I came out of the kitchen and saw her holding one of her little dolls. She was making the doll cry. Then, she said, "nee nee," and pulled up her shirt. She put the doll to her chest and make smacking sounds. Then she pulled the doll away and said, "Mmmmm. Gu." Gu = good. She didn't even see me standing there watching her. I almost cried it was so sweet. She did something similar this morning and we talked about it. She told me her baby "cai" (cry) and she gave her "nee nee." I said, "Your baby cried, you gave her nee nee and she felt better?" DD said, "Yeah! Yeah!" Super sweet!!!

It is awesome nursing a toddler! Whoever says, "once they can ask for it, they're too old for it," serious has his/her head up the butt.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraB*
My DD has been so cute lately. She's started saying "side" when she wants me to switch sides and has been "nursing" her own babies.

Yesterday, I heard her making crying noises and saying "no, no." I came out of the kitchen and saw her holding one of her little dolls. She was making the doll cry. Then, she said, "nee nee," and pulled up her shirt. She put the doll to her chest and make smacking sounds. Then she pulled the doll away and said, "Mmmmm. Gu." Gu = good. She didn't even see me standing there watching her. I almost cried it was so sweet. She did something similar this morning and we talked about it. She told me her baby "cai" (cry) and she gave her "nee nee." I said, "Your baby cried, you gave her nee nee and she felt better?" DD said, "Yeah! Yeah!" Super sweet!!!

It is awesome nursing a toddler! Whoever says, "once they can ask for it, they're too old for it," serious has his/her head up the butt.









Awww! How sweet!







My 3yo dd nurses her babies too.







I threw away the bottle & pacifier that came with the one doll (another MIL rant







: ) and she never noticed or cared. She weaned at 20 months, although she is still interested in nursing but she's forgotten how!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hi mamas. Just jumping in here. Ds is coming up on 18 mos and we're still happily involved in nursing. Lots of nightnursing still also. I've only read a couple of pages of this thread but I wanted to say







and thank the OP for starting it. Any european moms here? We're off to Europe in a couple of weeks and I'm wondering what the NIP situation is like over there? I'm anticipating, but not expecting, ds's nursing to increase in the new surroundings.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

NoraB, That is so cute! Thanks for sharing.
















Solsticemama









Mother Sunshine, I saw my friend today and asked her where she lived and NIPed with her older nurslings. It was Honalulu (sp







: )


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Quote:

I threw away the bottle & pacifier that came with the one doll
Heh heh heh. I do that too.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

My niece got a doll with a bottle and she used to pretend to pump milk into it, and then hand it to someone else to feed the baby later. :LOL


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
NoraB, That is so cute! Thanks for sharing.
















Solsticemama









Mother Sunshine, I saw my friend today and asked her where she lived and NIPed with her older nurslings. It was Honalulu (sp







: )

Wow! Cool! I was just in Honolulu visiting the IL's. It's such a fast-paced city-life compared to where I live, and so full of people from around the World bustling about. But, then again, I think wherever you go in Hawaii you are going to find tolerance (from the majority anyway). Plus we love our keiki (children)!....and many people smile upon those who are treating their children well.









BTW, I LOVE that new smiley Mama...it must be brand new because it wasn't there a few days ago.















Solsticemama and jamie h.

Solsticemama, there was a thread here somewhere (maybe in TAO?) from a mama who was writing to us as she was touring Europe with a NIP toddler in tow. I'll see if I can find the thread (or maybe someone else here can beat me to it).

sbf and Mama...we lost our DDDDC labels







:LOL
Did you lose yours yet Joan?


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Yes, my ddddc went away also..









Hawaii sounds like a wonderful place, glad you had a nice trip to Honolulu


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## twopeasinpod (Aug 20, 2003)

Yay! I want this forum!

The twins are nodding while staying latched...lol

*Mother sunshine* - where are you at? (my mind is speaking pidgin "whea u stay?" lol ) I think I saw you on the triabl HI board, whilst I was whining about missing da Aina

I got asked to move while nursing my eldest at Kahala Mall years ago...figures...lol
However, I nursed at center stage Ala Moana as a tribute to that experience and everyone ignored me.

I hope the forum gets a start!

Maya


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Maya, I'm on the Big Island. That's too bad that you got approached while NIP at Kahala Mall. I guess that the city is the place to NIP on Oahu!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Now I'm wishing for the CLW forum even more. A recent thread has just reaffirmed that many MDC mamas who believe in EBFing do NOT support CLW. It's frustrating to see these posts that make it obvious they believe anything over 4 is too old and something is wrong with it. I don't want to be a part of a forum like that really. Even if CLW is not for some mamas, they should at least be supportive and respectful of the mamas who are doing it. We obviously need our own forum.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I saw a thread or two on weaning, but didn't read them. I just can't imagine making my kids wean unless they were/are ready.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Me, too!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Anyone else dealing with a toddler who wants mamas shirt completely up when nursing? I'm wondering how I'll deal with this in Europe with my relatives. I've got a couple of ponchos that work occasionally and there's always the sling I suppose.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

All I can tell you is what I would do, which is let my relatives suck it up (Not literally! :LOL ).

Looks like you're about to become a senior member! Have you got a title in mind?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Yay, I just crossed the senior member line









No I don't have a name in mind yet but I'm a searchin'

Yeah, the relatives. I actually feel I'm going to be doing a bit of education/advocacy on this trip. They are







why I am still nursing, thankfully they keep their opinions on it to themselves but I'm thinking I'll print up a bunch of articles from Kellymom and let them read at their leisure


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

"All I can tell you is what I would do, which is let my relatives suck it up (Not literally! )."~sbf








Oh, and I agree...they're just going to have to deal with it.








Congrats on your senior status solstice.
















Hi Busybusymomma, haven't seen you in a long, long time!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
"All I can tell you is what I would do, which is let my relatives suck it up (Not literally! )."~sbf








Oh, and I agree...they're just going to have to deal with it.








Congrats on your senior status solstice.
















Hi Busybusymomma, haven't seen you in a long, long time!









I's here. So many posts and not enough time to give my Not So Humble Opinion on all of them!







:


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just saying Hi.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi Tired. How old is your nursling? How are things going?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I love the new drive by nursing smilies.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Now I'm wishing for the CLW forum even more. A recent thread has just reaffirmed that many MDC mamas who believe in EBFing do NOT support CLW. It's frustrating to see these posts that make it obvious they believe anything over 4 is too old and something is wrong with it. I don't want to be a part of a forum like that really. Even if CLW is not for some mamas, they should at least be supportive and respectful of the mamas who are doing it. We obviously need our own forum.

ITA...for me, it goes against every instinct in my body to wean my children before they're ready. That's me. I also triandem nursed for 18 months. Even *I* sometimes take a step back and think,"That's kinda wierd, nursing three children at once!" but it *feels* natural to me. I do understand that some people aren't comfortable nursing an older nursling or need to wean their nurslings for medical reasons, before they're naturally ready, and am supportive and respectful of their choice/need. CLW just doesn't *feel* natural to some people, even though it is. These people also need to support those of us who nurse to 4, 5 or beyond, even if it goes against their comfort levels. As my son told his little brother today, "Just because it's not something you're used to...just because it's different... doesn't mean it's wrong or icky or something."


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I am SO close to ranting on one of the other EB threads because of one very ignorant post re: why children nurse beyond a certain age. I can usually restrain myself and shrug it off but the way this person is speaking is irking me. Where is the "hold me back so I won't go back in there" smiley?
















Can't....hold....back...much....longer....


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Mother Sunshine. I know. I had to come back and at least say a couple things. I'm sure some people think even that was too much. I feel like, if that Mother had come to the (ever so needed) CLW forum she would've recieved only open advice and support. Instead people are writing to condone nursing an older child in the nicest tone possible, KWIM?







She didn't ask what people's opinions on CLW or older nurslings are.







The thread title isn't "What's your comfort level wrt...". Ok, I know we're not supposed to talk about other threads. Bad me.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks Mama.







You did good. I was bad, I couldn't help it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
Just saying Hi.









TiredX2


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
I was bad

No, you weren't. I read it. It was good. It made me re-read the other post and I went







It was worse than I had originally thought. Educating is never bad. We shouldn't have to go around the EB forum like this







: or this







: I'm glad that, for now at least, we have this support thread. You are all such wonderful women and mothers.


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

I would like to let Lucy wean herself. (I think I posted here already.) I thought DH was on board but I have started getting some grief from him. Lucy is 25 mos old and she is very attached to her ninnies.

It just sucks that I cannot vent about the challenges of nursing her IRL to him or family because they are not sympathetic at all. He seemed ok but we had a big blow up the other day that seemed to come out of nowhere.

I didn't feel like dedicating a whole thread to my plight so I am posting here.

And big hugs to those of you who nurse as long as your kids want. I post at some more mainstream (lol Freudian slip - I typed "painstream" first) boards and I always thought of MDC as a place for good EBF support.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Hi lunchbox









What are your dh's objections to CLW?

You can always come here for support (or to vent if need be) :LOL


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
Freudian slip - I typed "painstream" first

:LOL

I hope you can bring your dh around.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

lunchbox.....vent away! That's what we're here for.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Ok mommas what do your early mornings look like? My little Mukti nurses thru the night and then upon waking we have a long session (an hour usually) in bed till he's fully awake. After we've been up for about 5 mins. he asks to nurse again. This continues at frequent intervals over the course of the next hour or two. I realize that sleep to wake is a transition that nursing probably helps with, coming into his waking body and all, but part of me just wants to redirect YK, which I have done on occasion and then feel guilty about







But after all that night nursing and the hour long in-bed session part of me just wants a half an hour of no one on me at all YK. So tell me mommas how do you and your toddlers do in the early morning?


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## katiecat (May 4, 2004)

Hi, this is actually my first post on an MDC board though I've been lurking here for a while. Can I join you?

I am nursing my 25 month old and plan to let him wean when he's ready, though I do work full-time. We pretty much nurse on demand when we are together but I'm starting to put him off a bit the occasional time he asks to nurse in a place that I don't want to. He's accepting this well. We do still NIP but there are certain places/times that I just don't want to so I offer a snack/drink and tell him we'll nurse when we get home.

I can totally see him still nursing, even if it's just once a day or less when he's 5 or older - that doesn't bother me. I think it's a wonderful thing for a child to be able to do, when they need it, for as long as they need it. Congrats to everyone here.

Allison
mom to ds Callum born May 8/02


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Welcome Katie!









solsticema- My ds nurses off and on all night long too. Thankfully I don't wake to feed him... if needed I roll over but he can find it anywhere.







He sometimes marathon nurses first thing in the morning, although since he's 13mo I do offer him some organic cheerios and a cup of water. Sometimes he wants it and sometimes not. He's not eating much solids, he browses when we're eating but doesn't eat large quantities.

PS- three mornings a week I'm gone for 45 minutes to work out, and he does fine with dh... but once I'm in the door, ds is on me like a fly on you-know-what.


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## OwensMa (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:

My ds nurses off and on all night long too. Thankfully I don't wake to feed him... if needed I roll over but he can find it anywhere. He sometimes marathon nurses first thing in the morning, although since he's 13mo I do offer him some organic cheerios and a cup of water. Sometimes he wants it and sometimes not. He's not eating much solids, he browses when we're eating but doesn't eat large quantities.
Sounds just like my DS, except mine is 11mos old. Cherrios for breaskfast too! He likes to squich and play with the food O give him, and occasionally taste it.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
solsticema- My ds nurses off and on all night long too. Thankfully I don't wake to feed him... if needed I roll over but he can find it anywhere.









That's impressive mama. I usually rouse into some state of waking to change ds from one side to the other. Tho we also fall asleep attached at times. Does your ds crawl around you to get to the other side? Breakfast, usually buckwheat pancakes, only holds his interest so long then it's back to nursing.

Welcome Katie & Callum

eta about breakkie


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

No, after my milk supply evened out I started only feeding him on the right side at night. During the day we alternate sides and at night only one side. Works great.


----------



## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Hi Solsticemama, You have described most of the first three years of my son's life! Just recently he will sleep 8 hours (







) without nursing (edited to add that it happened twice and although it didn't happen the third night but I am content to know it can happen) and in the morning sometimes be distracted away from marathon nursing. But this morning he nursed about a half hour then dozed off for fifteen minutes then nursed about another half hour then read a story for about 10 minutes then nursed about another half hour and kept telling me he didn't want breakfast. A half hour break and then another request for "baba". He and I have been doing things apart from one another more this week so I decided to just keep being there for him. Other times I have definitely redirected him especially during the last 6 months or so. Sometimes he redirects himself. And sometimes he calls out for "baba" when he is just feeling intense about something else and then corrects himself.








When his need is as strong as it was this morning, I begin to feel edgy. Ahhh the continuous oportunity for growth!

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
Ok mommas what do your early mornings look like? My little Mukti nurses thru the night and then upon waking we have a long session (an hour usually) in bed till he's fully awake. After we've been up for about 5 mins. he asks to nurse again. This continues at frequent intervals over the course of the next hour or two. I realize that sleep to wake is a transition that nursing probably helps with, coming into his waking body and all, but part of me just wants to redirect YK, which I have done on occasion and then feel guilty about







But after all that night nursing and the hour long in-bed session part of me just wants a half an hour of no one on me at all YK. So tell me mommas how do you and your toddlers do in the early morning?


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

Since you gave me permission to vent....

I am so tired. Lucy wakes to nurse about 5 times a night (we co-sleep). And she has to have both sides. And I cannot sleep thru it. I am a bear during the day without sleep. I would love to use naptime to do housework because my house is a sty but I have to sleep. If I try to deny her at night, she pinches and screams. She is really big (45 lbs at 2 years) and so she is strong. She will tear at my shirt and my boobs. I am so afraid of waking DH that I just give in. After all, he can't nap during the day because he works so it only seems fair that he at least get a good night sleep.

We had an disagreement the other day about a discipline issue. He said that I was not being supportive because I had a problem with the way he handled it. That turned into him spouting off about how he had been supportive of me EBF, even though his "support" consisted of him not mentioning that he thought it was time to wean her. According to him, it makes him hard when I am not around (that is rare), and we cannot leave her overnight (I wouldn't at this age even if she had weaned). Plus, he is concerned about her weight, despite the fact she is built just like him and MIL at the same age. He said that EBF is just a lot of "LLL bullshit" and that I couldn't provide him with any scientific evidence to support it at that PARTICULAR moment. (He is very science oriented.) He is also afraid that she will never wean. (And right now, I feel like that too.)

Part of me feels like this is something that pretty much involves me and her so it should be our decision. Plus, I have done so much reading on the subject that I am comfortable with it. On the other hand, he is a great dad and so involved that I don't want him to feel excluded from a child rearing issue.

A couple of times, I have told her no ninnies until she picked up the puzzles she dumped out for no reason or whatever but I feel very uncomfortable with that. I don't think that is a good tool for discipline used that way. Maybe it is. I don't know.

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea. She has been a pill the last few days and its wearing on me.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

lunchbox, I'm so sorry you are going through this with dh. Your dd is at that age when nursing is so intense and frequent. Unfortunately many dh's go through that past-2 phase when they think nursing will be like that forever and that the child should have "outgrown" it by now. That was around the time when my dh spoke out against it once or twice and it became an issue for us to work through. I imagine that from a dh's point of view the constant nursing starts seeming "old" and is draining on the relationship (dw always feeling touched out and tired). I was firm in my stance and made it clear that weaning wasn't going to happen by force. This was all before I had the cyber-support of internet access so I was feeling very alone. I was running purely on what felt right and wasn't budging from that. Dh eventually came around and actually became an advocate. I think he finally saw how much good it was doing dd. I want to tell you to have him read about the advantages of nursing beyond 2 (there are many scientific advantages too), and if you want us to provide you with some links then let us know. But, honestly, my dh would never read any of it. Luckily, he took my word for it and finally realized to trust in this mother's instincts.

Hang in there, hopefully he'll come around. It doesn't sound like it could get much worse. If you truly believe in what you are doing then stand by it firmly and he'll hopefully pick up on your assurance. As for dd nursing a lot, it will lessen eventually as her needs are fulfilled.


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## twopeasinpod (Aug 20, 2003)

So glad you mamas are here. This is like an CLW forum already!
Although I am still in the "early stages" of CLW (14 months lol) this board is such a resource for strength to remember my instincts.

I have a family event tomorrow at a wealthy uncle's house - they initially asked us to "get a sitter" HA. DH told them we do not leave our kids, and they are STILL drinking mamamilk








So we are carting the twins over, hopefully with some patience for marble floors, abunai staircases and boat docks mixing with twin energy.

I just told DH I am looking forward to nursing the babies without hiding in a room somewhere. Not that I will intentionally expose myself, just that I will not plant myself in the guest suite for everyone else's amusement or to avoid "You're still NURSING them??"

ahhhh....

Maya


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## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

I voted yes as well. I'm a new member and my son is only 8 months (almost)...but we plan on CLWing. I think a separate place for us would be wonderful. I can't stand to read weaning threads and I am such a masochist that if I see it I _have_ to read it. :LOL

Can't wait to get to know you all better!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I've been DDDDC'd and I LOVE it!!!









THANK YOU!!

Does anybody want to 'fess up?

P.S.
Welcome Jessica & Nikolai


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

'twasn't me! But you and Mom4tot must be the "twins" bc she got the same ddddc!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I got one too!

Thank you to our secret admirer!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
I am so tired. Lucy wakes to nurse about 5 times a night (we co-sleep). And she has to have both sides. And I cannot sleep thru it.

My son woke 5 to 7 times a night for the first 26 months. Then 4 or 5 times a night for the next year?? well maybe less. Anyway it is only recent that he sleeps longer at night. Sometimes I would fall asleep nursing but not like the women I read who barely wake up. A visit to the accupuncturist and some herbs on a daily basis helped my ability to fall back asleep at night. Night before last was his second night in a row not waking to nurse until 6 am or so. I kept waking though; habit I guess. Then he woke every 2 hours last night and I am so over that.

These changes happen, so slowly sometimes but they do happen.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
A couple of times, I have told her no ninnies until she picked up the puzzles she dumped out for no reason or whatever but I feel very uncomfortable with that. I don't think that is a good tool for discipline used that way. Maybe it is. I don't know.

If you want my 2 cents on the discipline thing: I wouldn't use witholding nursing to discipline but I do ask that such and such happen before nursing sometimes (consistent about what that is and when) and I'm in there helping to make it happen too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
She has been a pill the last few days and its wearing on me.






























OH I know that feeling so well

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
We had an disagreement the other day about a discipline issue. He said that I was not being supportive because I had a problem with the way he handled it.

This happens here too. I have come to understand that in the moment, standing with my husband works best then at a moment when we are alone (I know, how often does this really happen) I will bring up any disagreements or differences in style, approach, etc.... you name it. OK I don't stick to this every time yet, and it is what I am committed to.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
even though his "support" consisted of him not mentioning

Ughhh My DH tends to do this kind of thing too.







: I asked him to read a chapter in a book on Mothering in cultures around the world in which the woman anthropologists speaks her opinion that the most important thing a mother can receive is support for her choices in mothering. He got it for a while. But old habits die hard so they say.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
On the other hand, he is a great dad and so involved that I don't want him to feel excluded from a child rearing issue.

Here too. I'll count my lucky stars that DH seems to agree with my choice to continue BF (and tolerate the things that influence him about this). There are things about the nursing relationship that only the mother will know and, sorry, but the dads will never know. I understand your desire to include him in on things but including him may look more like you describing your experience to the best of your ability and keeping to

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunchbox*
this is something that pretty much involves me and her so it should be our decision.

Not that his needs would be ignored but there are all kinds of arrangements that can take everyone into account. Intention is all that is needed to find the ones that work.

Well, "Sorry for the verbal diarrhea."

I hope this helps. And if not then I'm not offended and hope you find what does!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:



















:LOL








Glad you like them!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

It' s wonderful, thank you!!

I feel like a Goddess now









And I have always wanted a twin























:LOL


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

:LOL















THANK YOU MAMA!!








You made my day!

We're twin goddesses Joan


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*







I've been DDDDC'd and I LOVE it!!!









What is DDDDC?

I'm new to the thread. I was given the link via the BF older children support thread. If I frequented MDC still, I would love a CLW subforum. I feel so alone in this much of the time!

I didn't have the time to read the entire thread before posting. Just a reply to say that it's great to be in your company. Thanks.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

DDDDC=Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

It's a neat little fundraiser/game for MDC.

http://www.mothering.com/mdc/ddddc.html

Glad you've joined us!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi Fraya! Glad you're here.









Mother Sunshine







It's hard enough for me to hear negative things about what I plan on doing, I can only imagine how hurtful it is when it's what you are currently doing. Sorry you had to deal with that.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Hi Fraya!

I am trying to be good, and understanding, but I am going to explode in TAO.

No further warnings will be given! :LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL So Joan _does_ have a breaking point! Well, here's a







for you too. I can't even stand going to TAO now. It's funny, I had wanted to do those DDDDC's for a week or so but for some reason it took me forever to figure out how to do it.







: I'm thinking this is good timing though since the past week has been like a CLW bashing party.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I know! The ddddc's are hard to figure out at first. I really love it! I figure it "gives me clout" during the discussion! :LOL

I hope I didn't come across as persnickety or anything...I didn't mean it to sound that way. I was just pointing out the "to a point" phrase.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

MamaAllNatural, I just calculated your age when you gave birth to your firstborn. Unfreakingbelievable. I never would've had the maturity, the wherewithall, the ... anything ... required to think that much for myself at that age to determine that I'd give birth at home, not circumcise (well, maybe that one), do child-led weaning ... That's just amazing. Congratulations. Maybe I can be enough of a model for my child(ren) that such noble, self-determined decisions will come to them at such an age. Wow.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Hi Fraya!

I am trying to be good, and understanding, but I am going to explode in TAO.

No further warnings will be given! :LOL


:LOL








You did good Joan. I can't believe that you held out for this long! What's that saying, you have the patience of a.....sloth?......eeesh, I can't remember what creature it was...umm....you have the patience of a.....?...oh well....you have A LOT of patience!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
I figure it "gives me clout" during the discussion!

:LOL







:LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Fraya, thanks for the compliment. I'm an "old" 27!:LOL I've been completely independent since 16 so I feel a lot older than I am.









Joan, yes your DDDDC has been CLW thread certified so you have a lot of clout!


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Hi All!

It's been ages since I've visited over here! So glad I happened by and saw this thread!! W'hoo! DS is 3.5 and while DH and I are still extremely sound in our decision of child-led weaning, it's always extra helpful to have support in this way. Thanks! (Hoping for that eventual forum!







).

I wish I had more time to introduce myself, alas bedtime for DS awaits. Indeed! DS awaits... to nurse that is!







More later!

The best to you all!
Em


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hi







: mamas. Just wanted to check in briefly before we leave for Europe tomorrow. Ds is teething right now so nursed a ton last night and it was the 'suction-cup' style nursing. I've got my Kellymom fact sheet on the benefits of EBF ready for the relatives. I haven't packed yet tho...







:

So CLW mamas I'll be thinking of all you nursing your toddlers as I do the same thru Europe. I hope to check in once or twice and say
















Rose


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## twopeasinpod (Aug 20, 2003)

Have a safe and wonderful trip Rose!!

We are getting molars, Quinn even has ateething fever... so the nursing has me a bit frazzled, but it makes them feel better


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

(can this double as a surprised smilie?)

<--------------------------------------

It has to be someone here because I remember us discussing this. Hmmmm....sbf? Mother Sunshine? Adrianne?








Thank you whoever it was!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Not me! But I was thinking of doing it! I still don't know how to give (or receive!!) a ddddc!


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Great Idea for a child led weaning subforum!!!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Congrats Mama!








It wasn't me!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

AdrianneWe---

I am totally broke right now or you WOULD have a DDDDC.







You definately deserve one


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

OH WOW! I feel honored and loved already!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Holy Moly!!! I AM honored and loved!!!























<------------------------------ my first DDDDC!









thank you, whoever did it!!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Awww! It wasn't me, but you deserve it!!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Hey! I wanted to be the first to DDDDC you! :LOL That's great! I still haven't found who gave me mine. I think it was sbf but she hasn't come to the CLW thread in quite a while. I like it Adrianne!









_______________________________________________

So, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that once children reach the age of 4 or 5 they only nurse once a day or even only a couple times a month. I'm just wondering if people might be not as dedicated to nursing an older child because they think it'll be the same as when they're two or three and nursing several times per day and during the night, KWIM? I was committed to it before I knew this, but now that I know this I think, "Wow, that's easy!" Not to undermine the character, iron will and dedication it takes to nurse an older child in our society today but rather that it doesn't require much effort at all. I mean, who could complain about nursing 2 or 3 times a month, yk? I hope I'm making sense.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
So, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that once children reach the age of 4 or 5 they only nurse once a day or even only a couple times a month. I'm just wondering if people might be not as dedicated to nursing an older child because they think it'll be the same as when they're two or three and nursing several times per day and during the night, KWIM? I was committed to it before I knew this, but now that I know this I think, "Wow, that's easy!" Not to undermine the character, iron will and dedication it takes to nurse an older child in our society today but rather that it doesn't require much effort at all. I mean, who could complain about nursing 2 or 3 times a month, yk? I hope I'm making sense.









ITA...people often have misconceptions of what nursing an older child is like. To me, nursing a 4 year old is easy. It's usually first thing in the morning and before bed. Occasionally during the day ... and he sometimes skips a day here and there.

Along the same lines, people have misconceptions of what tandem or triandem nursing is like. When I was triandem nursing, even friends of mine who were EBFing and/or tandeming thought that I must be continuously nursing all day. I was nursing my youngest quite frequently, and my 3 year old several times a day, but, as you said, my 4 year old only nursed once or twice a day.

Nursing is such a natural part of my day that I don't often look at the amount of time my children spend nursing. By the child's 4th or 5th year, the mom is used to the minor "interruption" of her "schedule" that nursing presents, so no, it doesn't require much effort. Heck, the child can even pull up her shirt and undo her bra at that point! All she has to do is sit there! :LOL


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I've been thinking about our nursing relationship in terms of child development, for one. And also in terms of seasonal cycles, or shifts in the sands of time. Lemme see if I can make more sense:

I have been learning about being a mama since the day my ds was born. Some aspects of child development go really fast, but other aspects (for us, anyway) go really slow. Like sleep - he still doesn't sleep through the night. And crawling - it never even happened. And nursing - he still really needs it. What I'm driving at is that I have all but abandoned setting goals for milestones, bc I know that someday he will sleep 8-10 uninterrupted hours, and someday he will not need to nurse all the time. Just today he went from 8am - 12 noon without nursing. He asked for it, but then distracted himself (I said "ok, you can nurse" but then he moved on).

The progress we are making as far as sleeping longer intervals and needing to nurse less is moving verrrrrrrry slowly - at a snails pace - taking baby steps, even. Like how he can actually sleep three hours in a row now. This just started this month. (I am revelling in it!). The progress is moving at such infinitesimal increments - like shifting sand on the beach. The gradual developments with nursing and sleeping and eating are like the soft changes of the seasons.

I feel like my mothering relationship with ds will continually morph and shift and change in a fluid way with an easy pace - but also there will be rapid developments, like speech, for one... But in general, the kind of things that most provide my son with a feeling of safety and love and security will take a lot longer to reach their end - a very, very gradual process that someday will lead to weaning.

Long story short, yes, I do anticipate that my ds will nurse much less frequently when he is five - and by then no one will probably notice bc it will probably be at bedtime or other times when he is needs comfort or security the most.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
Holy Moly!!! I AM honored and loved!!!























<------------------------------ my first DDDDC!









thank you, whoever did it!!



































I couldn't resist!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
Hey! I wanted to be the first to DDDDC you! :LOL That's great! I still haven't found who gave me mine. I think it was sbf but she hasn't come to the CLW thread in quite a while. I like it Adrianne!









Did you ask Joan (Mom4tot) if she did it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
So, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that once children reach the age of 4 or 5 they only nurse once a day or even only a couple times a month. I'm just wondering if people might be not as dedicated to nursing an older child because they think it'll be the same as when they're two or three and nursing several times per day and during the night, KWIM? I was committed to it before I knew this, but now that I know this I think, "Wow, that's easy!" Not to undermine the character, iron will and dedication it takes to nurse an older child in our society today but rather that it doesn't require much effort at all. I mean, who could complain about nursing 2 or 3 times a month, yk? I hope I'm making sense.









I know, funny how when nursing actually becomes easy it starts getting hesitation and, in general, flack.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I thought Joan would've told me by now. Hmmmm....Joan was it you?







Mom2ThreeNurslings still hasn't noticed the DDDDC I gave her!:LOL I just sent her a PM so she can see it before it runs out.









Adrianne, I was wondering how the night nursing/sleeping situation was going. Glad it's gotten better.









Thanks Mamas for your input regarding nursing an older child.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

no, no, not me. i will get you when you least expect


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Oh wow Mother Sunshine, Thank You!!!









I am surprised Mom2ThreeNurslings hasn't noticed hers, bc I have, and I've seen her around here parts somewhere lately (I can't remember where...) ETA: oh yeah, today! post #263 in this thread









M.A.N. - the word "better" is still relative







He does still wake like clockwork between twelve and one am, and he is on me from 5am til waking. I don't know what else happens at night, bc I am too tired to remember. One new thing that he does, which is really neat, is that he will crawl over to me to nurse, and then crawl back to his place to sleep. He likes his "bed" (which is the crib attached flush to our bed - an extension of our mattress).

I've been wondering if I am ready to TTC yet, bc I always said I would wait until *I* slept through the night (it's been over 2.5 years!). But now that AF is returned and ds is starting to sleep better, maybe we'll all be ready for a new baby in a year or so. I'm sure I'll end up tandeming, and I'm a little afraid about sore nipples. Oh well, I'm just babbling on and on.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

M.A.N. maybe mom2threenurslings ddddc'd you!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I don't think so, since she hasn't even seen hers yet! :LOL

That's exciting Adrianne! I got pregnant right before both of mine turned 2. So they're all 2 1/2 years apart. The nipple pain is a reality for most, it's true. Just think of it as a tool for labor preparation...practice your deep breathing.:LOL Keep us posted.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

OK, so I'm the most unobservant person on the planet! :LOL That's what I get for tnak! :2tandem








Thanks Mama All Natural!!! My very first DDDDC!!!









I feel so special!!!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL I thought I'd better let you know before it was gone!









It's so funny, I was going to put in questions and suggestions that I want a "tnak" added to the list of all the other abbreviations etc. I must say, nak is really easy to me but tnak is very, very tricky. I can barely even ready while tnak!:LOL


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

I can barely even ready while tnak!
*Barely* doesn't come into this discussion. If you can do *anything* beyond balance precariously you are doing great!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
If you can do *anything* beyond balance precariously you are doing great!

:LOL Thanks!









Ok, this is totally OT but my baby just took his first steps. He's only 91/2 months old. I







when he did. My last baby ever is already growing up...and way too fast I might mention.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Oh cool! I love it when really young babies walk. It is so cute!
How can you say this is your *last* baby? You're young, and you never know what the future might bring


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

tnak - tandem naking? Egads Mama's! I can't even imagine!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
How can you say this is your *last* baby? You're young, and you never know what the future might bring









True, true. However I have WAY too many pregnancy problems to take a chance at getting pregnant any time soon. If there was a magic "off" button for five years then I'd love to have one more. Unfortunately we only have to look at eachother to get pregnant so it's not worth the risk...so dh had a vasectomy. Maybe the future will bring us a spontaeous Vas reversal in five years!:LOL

Sorry ladies, completely OT and probably TMI!







:


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Speaking of DDDDC's......oh Heavenly......yoohoo.....some ddddc LOVE has been sent your way and it is at the end of its week so I just didn't want you to miss out on it......


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
tnak - tandem naking? Egads Mama's! I can't even imagine!









:LOL I tnak all the time!!! Haley and Zachary must think me sitting in the computer chair is the cue to nurse! I do have very talented nurslings, though. Haley can fall asleep standing up nursing. She can sleep leaning against my leg with my nipple still in her mouth!

Imagine this...Mama sitting in office chair w/ no arms (chair has no arms ... if mama had no arms, it might present a problem!), as low as the chair will go.. 4 year old to mama's right, leaning backwards to rest his head on mama's right leg while he nurses ... 2 year old is between mama's legs, leaning back on mama's left leg and nursing on the left breast. Mama is leaning forward slightly, elbows above nurslings heads, typing away... It works for us! (and is much easier when it's a baby in football hold in a sling and the toddler across the lap!_


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Just wanted to say hello. Sounds like we have some similarities with our night nursing sleeping scenario.

I wanted to share that when mine was 26 months he first started to sleep ininterupted for the first 3 hours at night. I think we were still nursing every 2 hours during the day (or more). Anyway he is 37 months now and he just had several nights in a row that had a 6 hour or longer stretch in them. Sometimes he will still want to nurse every 2 hours. The jump to longer hours did not really happen until recently. He stayed at a 3 hour or 4 hour stretch most nights, but then it was a big jump to more. Sometimes he just wants to stay latched forever and I have started to release his latch when he is only sucking weakly every now and then and I'm still awake! He seems somewhat alert still and rolls over when I do this. Sometimes I fear this is pushing him away too much anad sometimes I think I am just setting a reasonable limit to sustain my energy.

Anyway, rest well.

PS What is nak? Is there a list of abbreviations? Sometimes I go for weeks before I get it.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

nak = nursing at keyboard (nursing while you're typing!)

tnak = tandem nursing at keyboard!

Hmmmm...I think we need at nak smilie....


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
:LOL Thanks!









Ok, this is totally OT but my baby just took his first steps. He's only 91/2 months old. I







when he did. My last baby ever is already growing up...and way too fast I might mention.

My friend's 9.5mo old is walking too!







He walks and my 13.5mo ds crawls like the wind and gets mad when I try to get him to walk. LOL Funny how some babies are determined to walk so early and others like crawling so much.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I have started a new petition in Questions and Suggestions asking for a new Child-Led-Weaning forum. I'm hoping we can get at least the 100+ signatures that have voted here.









Please follow the link below and sign your name.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=1611991


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Mother Sunshine,

If you haven't left yet I was thinking maybe you should edit the first post on this thread too to provide a link to the petition. I'm thinking if someone new stumbles across the poll they're not likely to come to the last page and find the link for the petition.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I signed the petition!


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Thanks mother_sunshine for all your hard work







I signed it too!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

If what you are telling me is also a prediction for my future, then I think I will abandon all notions of TTC!!! :LOL I always said I would wait until *I* slept through the night, which is still not happening, as you know! So I guess by the time ds is 3 or so I can TTC and hope for better sleep (that is, until I start peeing a lot if I get pregnant... oh well TMI)...

But thanks for the message. I love hearing from other Mama's with similar dc's. Sometimes I think people think I'm crazy when I tell them my story and how I have no choice in the matter when it comes to nursing frequently (outside of choosing to let him scream, throw fits, and CIO).


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I believe there is a list of abbreviations on a sticky somewhere. Maybe in the questions & suggestions forum?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings*
if mama had no arms, it might present a problem!

You just reminded me of a thing I saw on tv once about a mom who had no arms. I was amazed by some of the things she was able to do. I wonder if she bf'd?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

You're right Mama, thanks for the suggestion, I'll put the link where people can see it better.

---------

Thanks FreeRangeMama


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Mother Sunshine,

If it still doesn't get enough hits then maybe we can start a new thread (like Alice did - hope you don't mind sbf!) in the EB forum that says "Please sign another petition!"
















T Busybusymomma, you are so funny - what is going on with your new sig?









:LOL I like it, I'm just used to you always having tons of new and interesting things written in your sig line.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
You just reminded me of a thing I saw on tv once about a mom who had no arms. I was amazed by some of the things she was able to do. I wonder if she bf'd?

I once met a mama with no arms who breastfed. I must say that she made undoing a nursing bra with her foot look soooooo easy! She said that nursing was helped out a lot by the fact that she's well endowed and can simply lay baby on her lap and pull up her shirt! :LOL

Come to think of it, tnak would be a lot easier if I had one of those mouth held devices for typing...


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## hlr (May 3, 2004)

Hi Everyone,

I posted this on the main eb forum but thought I'd post it here too since I think I'll be spending most of my time on this thread.

I'm so relieved and happy to find this forum. My name is Heidi and I live in MN with my dh (John) of 8 years and our ds (Wyatt) who will be 3 next month & is the neatest, most incredible person ever!!!. I had a home water birth that was everything I expected/hoped for and more. We ap and pd, we don't vax and believe in keeping our ds intact. I'm a sahm. We have two fantastic dogs - buster and bailey and two pretty cool cats - sally and indy. I love to organic garden, read, knit, travel, cook and be home with my kiddo.

I'm relieved and happy to find this forum because I'll finally have support for nursing my son. It's been sparce to say the least - luckily my ds is totally on board. Unfortunatly, I've been strugling for about 11/2 with extended nursing. I'm not sure why because I had visions of nursing him until he was ready to wean, which I thought would be around 4 or so, but if it was longer then so be it. I found that everywhere I turned to talk to about how I was feeling and how often ds nursed, people would tell me that I should wean him because it wasn't working for me anymore or they would imply that my ds wasn't normal or something was wrong because he nursed so frequently and for so long.

Just recently our nursing has changed, we don't nurse much during the day, but we nurse quite a bit at nap time (I still lay with him during his 2-3 hour nap during the day). He usually nurses about 1/2 of that time, unless he's had a stressful day then it's more. We co-sleep (which I hope goes on for a long time - it's wonderful!!) and he usually nurses to sleep (about 1/2hr) and then again a few hours later for a few minutes and then again around dawn until he's been up for about an hour. That usually is about a 4-5 hour marathon.

It's been the marathon nursing and if he nurses frequently at night that has been very hard on me. There was a time when the constant nap-nursing was frustrating me too, until I gave in and found ways to distract myself and keep me entertained while he nap-nursed. Now the only thing that is surprising to me is that he usually only sleeps for about 1 hour (during naps) and then wakes up and can't go back to sleep unless I'm laying with him. I expected him to be able to do this on his own at 3. I guess I was wrong.

Anyway, I don't want to wean him because that would disconnect us and hurt our relationship. I believe that he has a right to nurse. I also believe that I need to figure out why I'm stumbiling, fix it and enjoy these last few years of nursing him.

That's why I'm glad that I found this forum. I hope it will be a place where I can see myself and my ds in all of you and not feel so alone and get the support & shared knowledge that I need in order to do what's best for my son.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble. I hope it wasn't to disjointed.

Heidi


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Heidi,

Just a word to tell you that I hear you.

My son, 38 mos., does not do the 5 hour marathon in the morning, but he often needs to nurse in order to nap (particularly later in his nap and if he has to pee), and he nurses frequently at night. We also co-sleep etc. and the longer nursing sessions tend to get quite uncomfortable once he's had milk. Occasionally, I drink some water just to get another let-down, thinking maybe if he had something in his stomach ...

One thing that I've noticed is that I have to teach my son what 'tired' and 'hungry' are. All that he knows is that he has this feeling and that nursing makes it better. He's pretty much got 'tired' figured out, and we're working on 'hungry.' There is no doubt that he is hungry in the mornings. I try to keep healthy snacks upstairs so that I can offer them to him first thing upon waking before I make breakfast. Ideally, I'd have breakfast prepped the night before, but I tend to make whatever one of us is in the mood for, so that doesn't quite work. But I do keep a homemade 'mix' of the dry ingredients for waffles, pancakes, etc. to speed that process. Or, I quickly make him some toast and then prep a regular breakfast.

I hope this is of service to you. At the very least, know that I am proud of you for sticking to your beliefs in a state that is not exactly pro-BF, let alone pro-EBF (from my experience--and even a friend of mine had people, even strangers, quizzing her as to whether she intended to BF her infants and, when she said yes, wanting to know why! With the education level in that state, you'd think ...). And know that I am proud to stand with you!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Today I had a discussion about nursing with someone and I just said "He's not done, he'll stop when he's ready. They all stop eventually." Because they looked a teensy bit surprised when I lifted my shirt over nine months of NewBeanBelly to nurse my EliBean. :LOL It was all good. I can easily see Eli nursing at 4 or 5 or even 6. He's soooo not ready, in any way shape or form, to give up his nursies.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fraya*
One thing that I've noticed is that I have to teach my son what 'tired' and 'hungry' are. All that he knows is that he has this feeling and that nursing makes it better.


Aha! Where is the lightbulb smiley??? Why didn't I think of this before? What a great idea! I am going to start on these concepts in the morning. Thanks, Fraya!
















Heidi!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)




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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

no way! there really is one!!!! too funny!!!! :LOL


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## hlr (May 3, 2004)

Hello everyone,

Thanks everyone for the friendly welcome!









Fraya - that is a light bulb moment!! There are times during the day, ie: right before lunch or mid-afternoon, that he asks to nurse. I never used to question it and would nurse, but then he didn't eat well. It took me awhile to reprogram my way of thinking in order to ask him if he was hungry. Usually he is and if he wants to nurse after eating then we do, but that is rare. I have noticed if dh has dinner ready by the time ds wakes up from his afternoon nap and if we have the dinner plate waiting for him by the bed, ds chooses to eat dinner instead of nursing. Also, drinking water - why didn't I think of that?







Thanks for your insights. Very useful! I appreciate your kudos! Breath of fresh air from what I'm used too.

Eilonwy, good for you!!

Heidi


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I feel grateful that some of my experience has been of service! Believe me, when I figured out the 'tired' thing and then how the basis of that was the same for 'hungry,' it was a huge lightbulb moment!

Edited to add: Although this may be different with different kids, different mothers, and different ages ... my milk simply doesn't satiate my son's hunger anymore, hence the desire to teach him to satiate his hunger with solid food. He doesn't enjoy life much when he's hungry!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

My dh and I finally realized recently that ds was usually having a tantrum when he was tired or hungry. That was a lightbulb moment, too! Now we have to get him to understand these concepts and verbalize them, since he can talk now.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Hi mamas!! I was posting on the support of older kiddos thread...but so glad to find this one, as I'm only nursing my 19month old right now.







I plan on CLW with Sam and his baby bro/sis due in Dec.







Debi


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

My 3 yo actually skips dinner and nurses as his final meal of the night. No matter what dinner is he will just pick at it then refuse food till bedtime. Then he is hungry and wakes up all night. Now I feed him 1 meal at around 4 then another at around 6, then he nurses at about 7. It made a HUGE difference, now he rarely wakes up at all out of hunger.

Does anyone else brag constantly about nursing their older child? I just feel compelled to tell EVERYONE!! I don't know why







I guess I just want people to know that it IS done and it IS normal









I rarely see doctors, but I ended going in to see my family doc last week and was telling her all about tandem nursing. She was very impressed with how big and healthy my boys are. She has never had a patient who has nursed anywhere close to this long, so I hope she will be more open-minded with other patients


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## lunamomma (Mar 10, 2004)

I voted yes. My son who is almost three nursed until a few months ago. I also have a 4 month old and i let my three year old nurse if he wants to which is a few times per week. I don't know if I fit into CLW category, but i sure intended to even when I was pregnant- he just isn't very interested, but Ive let him know that he can if wants to. i do plan to let DS2 wean himself. Oddly enough DS1 just sat on my lap to nurse- hee hee :LOL :2toddler: :bf


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama*
Does anyone else brag constantly about nursing their older child? I just feel compelled to tell EVERYONE!! I don't know why







I guess I just want people to know that it IS done and it IS normal









Yes, all the time! In fact, the other day, I was talking to a woman bfing her 6 mo, and I told her I was bfing my ds, who is 2 and 3 months old. She thought I was talking about two different children, one 2 yo and one 3 mo. When I clarified that I only have one child who is 2yrs+3mo, she was very surprised and impressed that I am still bfing. Then I wrote down the MDC website for her and told her about the local LLL meetings.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Thought I'd better bump this back up. Why can't I be calmly passionate vs. emotionally passionate?! I guess that's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? I've been following/participating in another discussion/debate on CLW and I came here to relax with you CLW mama's. Whew, its nice to be home


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## Linda104 (Jun 26, 2004)

I'm new here and I'm wondering if this subforum was ever created and how to gain access to it?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda104*
I'm new here and I'm wondering if this subforum was ever created and how to gain access to it?

not yet, it's under consideration.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm a bragger! I love to tell people that I'm still nursing my almost 4 year old, my 20 month old and I'm pregnant. I'm very proud of it. Nursing through pregnancy is really hard and it takes a lot of dedication, TBH. But it's so worth it! Tandem nursing is great, IMO, and using CLW is so great! Not that I never struggled b/c and probably will again but still it's all worth it!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Oh Mommies Please help.









Have you ever felt that your child's need to be with/on you is as welcome as another mosquito landing on you? I have a 3 year old boy who has been very attached to his mommy. Recently he has relaxed his grasp some. But for the last few days his need is way back up and I feel like I am going nuts. I want to be there for him and I want some space. DH is there to assist but DS doesn't want DH.
Oh I hate that feeling of aggravation I get just because things aren't going the way I think they should. Thanks for listening.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Hi Ann








I wonder if it could be age related? I have a 3 y/o little guy who is also very attached. The other night on my way out to mom's nite (once a month!), he cried and cried







Another friend mentioned her 3 y/o was doing the same thing.

How about a change of scenery? Go to the park or for a ride or something fun? Remember, this too shall pass. Don't be too hard on yourself.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

My son also has been very much attached to me and has seemed to have had separation anxiety longer than most children.

I was just reading in Building Healthy Minds (Stanley Greenspan) that between ages 3-4, children are working hard on triangular relationships. That is, they're trying to understand how it is possible to have a strong relationship with two people who also have a strong relationship with eachother (e.g., parents and child). During this phase, the child will go through phases of being very close to one parent to the exclusion of the other; this is because the child feels that the other parent will somehow interfere with his relationship with the one on whom he's concentrating (in your case right now, your son is concentrating on his relationship with you and worries that by letting your husband close to him, he'd be letting somebody interfere with his relationship with you).

As with most things, they seem to practice a whole lot while they work on these concepts! But, in time, he should understand that he can have deep relationships with his father and you simultaneously and that you and your husband can also simultaneously have a deep relationship with eachother -- all without interfering with his relationships!

During this time, if you and your husband can manage to handle things coolly -- that it's okay with you and your husband, that you both love him just the same, that you won't pull away from your relationship, etc., that should help to speed the process of understanding.

I hope that helps -- for me, understanding my son's behavior gives me more compassion, and it helps me come up with worthwhile solutions.

For us, one way that I can get time alone is that my husband will offer to take my son on a very special outing (to a favorite sandwich shop or store or to his office, or to a museum, for instance). I try not to take my son to any of these places so that he thinks of this as someplace special to go with his daddy and is eager to go when his father offers it to him!

If that isn't possible, my biggest escape is a twenty-minute bath. We might let my son do something really unusual like watch a video or play on my husband's computer with him. Or something a little less extraordinary might hack it, on occasion (like playing in the yard, digging dirt, throwing the hover disc, etc.). I hope that helps! Hang in! For the last 4 months, I've spent a lot of time praying for perspective. I finally have it, I think, but I know how tough it is sometimes. You'll make it, though!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Thank you so much for your compassion. I know that his needs do not come from mere whim but from real circumstances and deserve real attention. After I wrote my message I had adjusted better to the situation.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Ann, I'm joining in late but just wanted to say that I'm glad things are going better for you







. I agree that it is the age, but I also just wanted to add that I have noticed over the years that the more I get worried or uptight about something that dd is doing the more she reacts to it and it worsens.

Stepping back and looking at it from a different perspective helps a lot! (something I have to remind myself of every day)


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Is it just me or does anybody else believe that a forced-weaning thread does not belong at MDC? I know I have the choice to just ignore it but the thread is giving advice that could negatively affect others here at MDC.

And what is with the "*Support* for Gentle Weaning" thread? Nothing against Parent-Led, as long as it is gentle and respectful, but I thought we weren't allowed to have "support" threads?


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Haven...here in my haven, sticking my head back in sand, it will all be OK, lalalalalalala........

Yes, Mother Sunshine, I feel your pain.

Anyone else feeling beyond radical these days?


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Me!! On both questions...feeling the thread doesn't belong and feeling beyond radical.

I am really feeling







and







about the whole thing.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

OK, I'm looking into the forced weaning thread. No more talking about it here







That's against the rules. I'm uke about every five minutes with morning sickness. No extra work for me, OK?







to you all!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh Amy, I feel your pain. I get deathly ill when pregnant. We're upset but we promise not to make any more work for you.
















for us all!


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Thanks. I do feel really crappy but still happy to be pg. Tandem nursing and pg. Not an easy combo. Esp when sick. This too shall pass. I promise you will be the first to know when the board issues are worked out.


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## SunflowerMama (Nov 20, 2001)

I was just wondering if this is where we need to post for clw?


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

SunflowerMama,







For now this thread is all we've got. Hopefully that will change soon though!







:


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Welcome SunflowerMama


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## Selissa (Jun 15, 2003)

Hi mamas...I'm wondering those of you who are pregnant or have been pregnant with a nursling how did you do it? HD and i would really like to havea nother baby now that ds is gettign a bit older (17 months :LOL at older) we'd like him to havea friend...but i know that he is no where near weaning which is totally fine i am no where near ready for him to wean but i am so scared that if i get pregnant that he will wean and then i will feel that i am shorting him...i wish i could jsut know for sure whether he would wean or not. If he was older i would worry aobut it less but to me 2 is just to young to have to wean cause the milk dried up....so how did it go for you all? thanks


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I've done it in the past and am doing it now. It's not the easiest thing in the world but very rewarding and definately worth it. How often does he nurse? My kids don't seem to care if there is milk. Then when the baby is born and the milk comes in they're SO happy!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Hi everyone









I just started a new thread asking for everyone's opinion on a separate CLW forum....
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=162920

(Amy, if it's not okay to post this then I will remove it, but I assume since I started the new thread it would be okay...?).


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ekblad7+*
My kids don't seem to care if there is milk. Then when the baby is born and the milk comes in they're SO happy!

















Ditto!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Same experience here, BUT when DD got older she *did* start caring.

While pg w/DS (DD was almost two when we got pg) my milk supply plummetted but she nursed through the pg and for 18 more months. At that point she stopped being able to get milk and didn't want to nurse anymore. She has wanted to nurse since then (and I let her) but when she can't get any she immediately stops. Now, I know there is plenty there (I am still nursing DS, 2.5) but she can't get it out. So it does vary from kid to kid.


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## Selissa (Jun 15, 2003)

oh thank you all for the heartening answers







i know it is no garuntee of how my son will react but i am glad to know that they dont' always quit nursing....makes me feel better about ttc. this being out one big hold up. I O anyday now and part of me can't wait t osee if i get preggo and part of me is terrified to even try.


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

Thought I'd mention that I heard from a credible source once that, although you cannot be sure of whether a child will wean due to pregnancy or not, the more a child nurses, the less likely they are to wean on account of the pregnancy. I guess that might mean that if they're really into it, they'll persevere, but if they could take it or leave it, they might leave it (at least until the milk is a-flowin' again).

I was troubled by the same issue as you for some time, so I understand your worry!


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## texas_matka (Jan 29, 2004)

texas_matka


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

texas_matka, did you mean to post to this thread?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=158296


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## milk4two (Mar 20, 2003)

Would some CLW mamas please consider giving their input on this thread?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=165062

I was a die hard CLW mom for a while and still believe in it; I'm just having difficulty implementing it.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I've been tatooed!!..or should I call it "nipple pierced".
















Anyone want to fess up?

THANK YOU!!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

BTW, I thought this would be a "safe" place to ask how everyone here is feeling about a possible Child-led weaning forum thus far? Has all the "happenings" lately made anyone feel more/less strongly about it? Does anyone here feel that it has become a PLW versus CLW issue? Please be honest and open, no hard feelings (really).
I'm wondering how everyone is feeling so I know whether to continue to fight for it.
(This post is intended for CLW moms only please)


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

We just got a new response from Cynthia over in the petition....

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&goto=newpost

Please take this opportunity to make yourself heard, whether it be here in this forum, in the discussion thread and/or in a PM to Cynthia. We have until tomorrow night to have a voice since she will be meeting with Peggy on Wednesday. I'll PM Cynthia and direct her to this thread if we get a good discussion going here about it.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I still think it's a good idea, because people who are/intend to CLW have different issues to deal with than those who are handling things differently. Especially for people nursing children over 4, when even crunchier people sometimes start to get antsy, a CLW forum could be a safe haven to discuss issues unique to their situations. For those of us with younger children, it's a place to ask questions and to learn the hows, whys, etc.

We could just keep a thread going, periodically starting new ones & having threads archived, but I still think that a CLW forum would be a good idea.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

MotherSunshine, I still like the idea of a CLW forum, but I am getting tired (to put it mildly) of all the fighting!! The thing I've noticed about these forums is that everyone (generalization) takes everything (generalization) sooooo personally. It would be nice if we could all state our positions respectfully (as you do!) and toughen our skins if we interpreted the respectful comment as hurtful, kwim? So to make a short answer long, I'm on board if you are, but don't feel obligated to continue "for us"
















BTW, I "reported" a very negative thread to Cynthia this a.m. and it is gone now


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Rynna,.

How is the tandeming going?









Mother Sunshine,

To answer your question, yes I think it's turning into a CLW vs. PLW type of debate. I tihnk it indicates a strong need for a CLW forum.


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## texas_matka (Jan 29, 2004)

Thanks sbf, I did mean to post on the other thread to count me in for CLW forum. I just posted on the right threas. Thanks.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
So to make a short answer long, I'm on board if you are, but don't feel obligated to continue "for us"


























I think it is worth fighting for and worth the "discussion". I just wanted to make sure I wasn't in the minority here. I don't want to waste my time if I am the only one feeling this way.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
To answer your question, yes I think it's turning into a CLW vs. PLW type of debate. I tihnk it indicates a strong need for a CLW forum.

I agree. Not because I am anti-PLW (which I am not, and neither are you of course), but because it has shown how many feel about us...which threw me off, I had no idea how many.








....sorry Amy, I know we aren't supposed to talk about other happenings here. I'll erase it if need be.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I posted this in the "Older Children" thread last Monday, and I just realized that maybe there are some mamas here who don't read that thread so I thought I'd share it here too.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
Once again, dd says she is weaned. Tonight at bedtime she cuddled really close to my breasts and I could sense something from her (not sure exactly what it was.....but it was directed at my breasts) so I gently asked her if she wanted to nurse. She said "No" kind-of quietly. I said she could if she wanted to. She said "No, I don't get milk anymore, you don't make milk anymore." Feeling a little sad (and surprised because I have always made plenty of milk for her), I asked if she got milk the last time she nursed (a little over a week ago) and she said "No, all I got was a bunch of my own spit".....which made me laugh because she had nursed for a good half hour that night. I told her "oh well, I guess that's the way it happens", she agreed. Then, in her sleepy voice she said "Can I have a weaning party?":LOL So I said sure and that we'll talk about it tomorrow. Then as she was fading into sleep she woke enough to say "Maybe we can make cupcakes"...and I gently rubbed her back to sleep.

It's weird because last time, was it 2-3 weeks ago, we were both excited and proud about her weaning. This time it was bittersweet. I don't make milk anymore. This is the mother who made so much milk for 7 years, over 3 of those years it was so plentiful that I had to wear an oversized bra with doubled cloth diapers in them to absorb all the milk. I couldn't even take a bath without having a mama-milk bath. And this is the little girl who said "Mama milk" until she was 7 (and a half). And now there's no more mama milk. I'm so sad and yet so happy. We did this right. I am so proud to say that I let my child wean herself the biologically (no, the _humanly_) natural way.









So now she has that memory to take with her in her journey of life. If she has children one day, may it help her see breastfeeding in the wonderfully positive light that it deserves to be in.









Who knows, maybe she will ask again someday...I'm guessing not, but don't be surprised:LOL. Irregardless, I will be there to give her whatever she needs from me.

Thanks for being here so I can share this.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

Hi everyone! I'm trying to catch up...I've had limited time at the computer lately due to three sick kids and some extreme nausea and fatigue on my part. That combined with the fact that af is now 11 days late and I'm super paranoid about being pg (hpt's have been negative, but w/ my 2nd I tested + really late...) ... and I have tons of work to catch up on after my vacation from work... things are a bit crazy around here.

Yes, I would LOVE a CLW forum.








to all who need them!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

mother_sunshine, that's so sweet







.

The tandeming is going very well. I didn't experience the same degree of engorgement this time thanks to EliBean's ability to drink a breast flat in minutes, which was fabulous







. He has, as I suspected he might, pretty much forsaken solid foods. He's willing to eat a little bit for daddy, and he'll eat loads for grandma, but whenever I offer him something he says "No, I want nursies." If I keep trying to get the food into his mouth, he starts to cry and get very upset, doing the "nursie dance"; arms up in the air, waving to be picked up, back and forth on the feet, mouth wide open and head moving in the direction of the closest breast. The whole time crying "I want mommy, I want to nurse! I need a nursie, mommy, please help!" and such.







: If daddy is nearby, he can be distracted with food sometimes. I'm wondering how this will be once Mike goes back to work!


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## kakies (Aug 8, 2002)

Yes, it would be very helpful.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

It's been so quiet around here lately. Just wanted to see how everyone is doing and if you're all still "here".









Hopefully everyone is just out and enjoying the Summer.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

I'm still here, just being "quiet." :LOL It has been quiet in general hasn't it?

I see you have a new sig. So, I guess that means she's really, really done, huh?























I am missing all of the "regulars."


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I am here







We are going away for a few days, and have been busy around here...sorry to have slipped away.









Mild rant ahead. We had a block party today and I was talking to a mom of a 10 mos. old. I asked, "how is nursing going?" Mom replies, "oh, yeah, he's still doing that, for another month or so"...between feeding him forkfuls of ALL of the foods on the buffet table. I say, oh so sweetly, "so Tracy, you have this baby on a timeline or something?" (insert fake smile)...she says, "I weaned all of my kids at a year. They seemed done with it. Especially him. (more forkfuls of food here)...he's so distractable."









Well, he's 10 mos., good thing he's distracted sometimes. I just don't get it.

Nope, don't get it.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
(insert fake smile).









Sorry, that was so funny though.







I don't get it either Joan.







That's sad. Does she know the benefits of nursing past a year? Maybe a list of them could mysteriously appear in her mailbox.
















T My SIL just gave birth to my first nephew ever!







The nursing is going well.







(I don't think she'd nurse past a year either though.







)


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

You know, when my son was 10 months old he was still nursing a zillion times a day. I can't imagine having weaned him at that age. I can't imagine weaning him right now.







It just doesn't seem fair to me that an adult brings a child into this world and then makes decisions like that for them, you know? It just doesn't seem logical to me. Eli didn't ask for me to get pregnant, so why would I force him off the breast because of that? He didn't ask to want to nurse, it's just something that he needs just like he needs his pants changed and time to run around outside. It wouldn't be fair of me to take that away from him, just because I'm bigger than he is and I have the power to do so.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Congrats on the birth of your nephew, Mama!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Just wanted to say hi... I think I've been pretty quiet on this thread lately.









A friend and I were talking about this yesterday... it seems so sad when a mom won't breastfeed or weans so young. I know a lot of moms who never breastfeed or wean young (like 6 weeks).







I can't imagine intiating weaning before 18 months if for some reason I felt I needed to, let alone at 10 months or three months or six weeks. My ds likes to sample table foods, but nursing is such a huge part of his nutrition. If he wasn't nursing, I would worry all the time about him getting the nutrients he needs (not to mention he'd probably starve)!!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks Alice!









Rynna, ITA. It's funny I didn't even think about it when reading Joan's post but _my_ baby is 10 months old.







: It's a joke to even think about trying to wean him.







He's just a little baby. Well, I don't even really feed him more than tiny samples of my food anyway so he's on 99% breastmilk. I just can't imagine. 10 mo feels like we're still just getting started, yk? I can't even fathom weaning my 3 yo. She needs it so much. I just can't imagine. It's a whole different mind set I suppose.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

It is a whole different mindset...our society is in such a rush for the babes to grow up, it's no wonder people think weaning at a year is normal, or okay. I mean, people think babies need to be in their own bed from birth, or not held so they don't become too dependant.







God forbid we actually nurture and nourish our children while they need it...
I really can't imagine a child genuinely being about done at a year...they are still babies.







I felt really sad today when I was at the farmer's market, and there was a tiny baby in one of those bucket stroller thingy's with a bottle propped in her mouth. I sometimes wish I could turn off those feelings...the sadness I feel for the baby.
I am just so glad that I can come here and feel normal, and have such wonderful moms supporting me in my choices to let my children lead the way.







Debi


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
I'm still here, just being "quiet." :LOL It has been quiet in general hasn't it?

I see you have a new sig. So, I guess that means she's really, really done, huh?























I am missing all of the "regulars."









I've missed everyone too. I'm happy to see more activity here today







.
I thought I should change my sig a little bit, just to advocate self-weaning (or CLW), and because I'm pretty sure that she's done. Congratulations on your new nephew!!







Does SIL have some good info to encourage her? She at least has a great role model!







I sent a copy of "Our Babies, Ourselves" (I think that's the title) to a friend in CA a few years ago when she had a baby. It did wonders for her. The first year is a great time for reading material. I did so much reading the first year because dd nursed round the clock, so all I did was sit, rock, nurse and read all day long







:














.

Joan, rant away:LOL. I would be so irritated too. That mindset baffles me. It sounds like you did what you could without offending her or causing an argument. I like MamaAN's idea of mysteriously slipping some info into her mailbox







(or even an issue of Mothering).
Hope you have a fun trip!























eilonwy, Sustainer (I like your user name







), busybusymomma and mamamoo
















Debi, I too feel that sorrow when I see babies in strollers esp with bottles or pacifiers in their mouths......especially if they're crying and mom just replaces the bottle/paci or hands them some other object instead of picking them up and giving them love.......where they are completely separate from their mothers and down low where they are getting everyone's germs in their faces. Uh oh, looks like I'm starting to rant myself. (holding myself away from the keyboard and angry smilie list) I.....Better.....stop......now. It's such a feeling of loneliness I feel for them though








.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I just wanted to share this real quick before I go to bed. Dd and I talked about her teeth tonight, she has a new one finally coming in (it's been peeking underneath her gums for months now). I told her that increased duration of breastfeeding leads to an increased probability of straight teeth. She paused and said, "Well, looks like I'm going to need braces then". :LOL Realizing I worded it wrong, I told her that what I meant was that she will probably have straight teeth because she nursed for her body's natural duration. She said "oh good", then snuggled close to my breast until she fell asleep.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

:LOL Alice, I just realized that "Sustainer" is you. Putting on a new hat again, eh? :LOL I like it.























:















I also just realized that I have been "sharing" an awful lot lately. :LOL Sorry guys, bear with me through this transition, I promise it won't last.









I better go to bed before I have more "realizations".


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Thanks Mamas! I knew you would understand









Mother Sunshine, you are so cute









MamaAllNatural, congratulations on the birth of your nephew! I love being an aunt







Keep everybody in TAO in order for me







Yes, that would be funny to "slip" something in her mailbox...I'm sure she'd never guess :LOL

Mamamo and eliwony, ITA. I just felt sad, too. Busybusymommy, I love knowing how much nutrition the kids are still getting from breastmilk. And Ben nurses 2 to 4 times a day...I just can't imagine a 10 mos. old nursing so little, I know it can happen, especially when kids eat a lot of food.

Anyway...bye! See you in a few days


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Hi everyone









MotherSunshine, I loved your dd's interpretation (needing braces) of your comment about "increased duration of breastfeeding"!! :LOL Isn't it great that our children KNOW that breastfeeding past infancy and toddlerhood is natural?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
Putting on a new hat again, eh?

This is the final hat. It won't be changed again. I apologize to everyone for the confusion!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm here, but lurking mostly! Congrats, M.A.N. on your new nephew!
Mother Sunshine - love your stories.
Rynna I went to check out your new baby, and it asked me for your name and password, so I couldn't see







Congratulations, tho!

As for the 10 mo: I just think that so many people believe that this is the normal way to do it, and haven't been informed about benefits beyond one year, or things like that. I get SO bummed when I hear about it, but I will share the information I know with mamas I talk to who have nursing babies. Maybe I can inspire a few to nurse longer...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

They're in my sig, after the link.









I should have new pictures up very soon, so don't worry about it. :LOL


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Congratulations Rynna!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

oh she's such a beauty, Rynna!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

What a precious little thing Rynna! And your whole family looks so adorable and happy!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Ds has been nursing once a day for a while now, at bedtime. Sometimes he'll skip a day. Then yesterday he nursed twice. You wouldn't think it would be a big deal, but my breasts are confused and don't know how much milk to make!! :LOL I'm always asking him how much milk he gets and if its the creamy hindmilk. He tells me he gets a lot of milk but that you "have to nurse a really long time" to get the creamy milk


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Just rescuing this thread from page 4. How is everyone doing? How are all of your little ones?

I was thinking today how foreign weaning seems to me. It's never once crossed my mind. If I get frustrated w/dd I think "I need a break" or "I need some help around the house and with the kids" but I never come to the conclusion that "I need to wean!" I was thinking about how very sad that would be if I weaned her. I think it would really break her heart and devastate her. I just can't imagine doing that.









I think CLWers have a different mindset. Kind of like when you homebirth drugs are not an option so they're not even an issue. In all of my labors no matter how bad it got I never thought, "I need drugs." I just thought...well you don't want to know what I thought! :LOL I'm just kidding







. I know that's not the best analogy but does anyone know what I'm saying here?


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Hmmm...not sure. I know that in the past I have had fleeting thoughts of wanting my child to wean, or that I am/was ready(not with Sam, of course)...especially with my very demanding dd, but I knew I wouldn't, just pictured what it would be like...but then when I was in labor at home I had fleeting moments of wishing I had gone to the hospital. :LOL I am glad that I choose to let my kiddos wean when they are ready, but there are still moments that it is really hard for me. Right now I am almost 20 weeks pregnant, have high blood pressure, and Super sore nipples, and as much as I love my nursing relationship, it is sometimes hard to nurse him as often as he wants...it hurts. :LOL


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Ok, so that was a really bad analogy after all. Sorry







:

It's probably just me.







:

I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time w/the pregnancy and nursing.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Oh, no!! I think it is mostly me. :LOL I actually feel kind of bad on this thread because there have been times when I have resented nursing so much...I really do LOVE it most of the time, but everyone here seems soooo positive, I don't feel like I fit in. :LOL Gosh, I don't even know if resentment is the right word. Just tired, touched out, and more tired. LOL I have been nursing for almost 7 years straight...tandeming a good portion of that(not as much as many, I know), but with all of the negatives out there about nursing, and all the hype about moms being "free" of their babies and stuff I think it gets to me sometimes. I just wish there were more irl support about clw. If I dare complain(maybe I want sympathy, or hey hon, you are doing a wonderful job of taking care of our children's needs) because I need a peptalk or just support, then I get, well, it's your choice...







I feel like it is a part of my life right now that is out of my hands, maybe it is my choice, but I want to do what is best for them ya know? Not sure if I am making any sense...it's late. :LOL
Please no one get me wrong...I love nursing, and love that I can give my children such an amazing gift!!!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I think I understand what your saying, mammoo. Nursing, and CLW is a decision. We nurse because we want to, because we know it is best and it feels good to have such a close relationship with our child. So, even when it is hard, we have made the decision to nurse, and we find a way to continue. I think that is what MamaAllNatural is saying as well. It reminds me of a joke where an older woman is asked how she stayed married so long, and if she ever thought of divorcing her dh. She replies, "I've thought of killing him, but never divorce".

A little black humor for Sunday morning









I have missed this also. Ben is still nursing through the day, tho mostly at night and in the am. Ellie hasn't asked in several days. She did reiterate her determination to nurse forever :LOL


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
It reminds me of a joke where an older woman is asked how she stayed married so long, and if she ever thought of divorcing her dh. She replies, "I've thought of killing him, but never divorce".









T That's really funny, actually. Before Mike and I got serious, I told him that I thought divorce was a horrible thing to do to children, and that'd I'd kill him before I'd let him leave so he'd better keep his act together. He said "Yes Ma'am," and that was the end of that. :LOL

Why is it that people think I'm nuts when I say that Eli will wean eventually? I understand about new mothers/pregnant women who haven't done any research yet, but why do women who've had kids think that you have to force them off the breast or they'll stay on forever? Have they known adults who were breastfeeding, or even teenagers?







I don't know, it just seems like I get a really funny vibe from people when I say that they all stop eventually and that Eli will too.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Hi all. My ds has been a nursing fiend this week. He







what seems like every 10 minutes. It's like having a newborn again! He is cutting several teeth at once though, the poor fellow.

I liked the jokes and analogy.







I needed a giggle this morning!

eilonwy- I wonder too. I've never met someone who never started solids if their parents delayed (although I know several who have stomach/gut problems from solids too early!) and I've never met a teenager who was still nursing. I guess there's a lot of them but they somehow hide the fact that they're still nursing or not eating solids.







:LOL

It's a mindset I think... people have heard others say such things and think "Oh! that makes sense!"

Uhoh... here comes ds for his 10th breakfast!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
It reminds me of a joke where an older woman is asked how she stayed married so long, and if she ever thought of divorcing her dh. She replies, "I've thought of killing him, but never divorce".









: Thanks for that Joan!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Ellie hasn't asked in several days. She did reiterate her determination to nurse forever :LOL

:LOL









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Busybusymomma*
My ds has been a nursing fiend this week. He what seems like every 10 minutes.

He's one right? It seems like most 1 yo nurse like newborns. Even 2 yo. Hopefully it will slow down a little after he cuts those teeth though. Here's sending some







your way for a boob break.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamamoo*
I just wish there were more irl support about clw. If I dare complain(maybe I want sympathy, or hey hon, you are doing a wonderful job of taking care of our children's needs) because I need a peptalk or just support, then I get, well, it's your choice...

I completely know what you're saying. I can definately relate to feeling touched out sometimes too. Please don't feel bad for feeling resentful sometimes. This is *the* safe place you can come talk about it.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Aww...thanks so much mamas!! I actually feel better about it just saying it out loud...I don't think I'm really "allowed" to do that irl.

I swear that thing about divorce cracked me up! Exactly what I needed!!! And oh, so true. :LOL

Michelle, I totally get the nursing all day thing. My ds(20 months) wants to nurse every two minutes...at this point I think it's mostly because my milk supply vanished practically overnight.









I LOVE this thread, and I love that I can get my feelings out. :LOL

I know about ppl saying, you have to start solids, or they won't get the hang of it!!??? What the heck?? So you mean if I don't introduce solids at 4 or 6 months they will NEVER eat food?! :LOL People say the same things about weaning, and co-sleeping(that is the biggest one I hear), they are all *still* sleeping with you? You'll *never* get them out of your bed!







Yep, I'm sure they will be in there with their wifes and kids someday. hehehe...
I think they just listen to what their moms or mils say(that is where I get most of my bunk info lol), and choose to not think for themselves or something.







:

I just want to thank you again for being here for support!!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)




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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

mamamoo - good for you knowing what's best with your first baby! It took me until my 3rd and finding Mothering to not hide all the AP/Natural parenting things that I did.

My dd2 has self weaned 8 wks shy of her 4th birthday. I really thought she would go longer. Guess she couldn't take one more pregnancy.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamoo*
If I dare complain(maybe I want sympathy, or hey hon, you are doing a wonderful job of taking care of our children's needs) because I need a peptalk or just support, then I get, well, it's your choice...







I feel like it is a part of my life right now that is out of my hands, maybe it is my choice, but I want to do what is best for them ya know?

You know what? I got the "it's your choice" comment from a LLL Leader during a discussion about night nursing.

It made me SO MAD. I am mad again thinking about it.

I really want to have it out with her, but I am a Leader Applicant in the same group, and we are supposed to be friendly. I don't even want to deal with it with her. But how dare she tell me "it's my choice" to continue to nurse at night? She tells me I have the choice to wean, but I choose not to. She has no idea what my ds is like, and does not believe me when I tell her that he just won't accept no for an answer at night. He just needs to nurse. Lately it's much better, but until recently, if I tried to put him off, he would go ballistic and no one would get any sleep. So she will try to coerce me to try all different methods in order to nightwean. She once even told me that I should nightwean so I could have another baby. Hello! how is this her decision? I believe in natural child spacing! Maybe there is a reason why my ds nurses so much! He would never have been able to handle sharing me with a baby when he was two. I think he might be able to handle it when he's three (the minimum age he will be if I do have another) but a year ago (when she suggested I should get pregnant) he was nowhere near ready.

Her second ds is about 2 years younger than her first, and her first weaned alltogether around 18 months while she was pregnant. I guess she figures I should follow the same timetable as her. It just won't work for us. But more than that, her advice just doesn't work for us. How come she can't realize that every baby is different? Why can't she give me any credibility as a mother????

sigh. I'm ranting again. sorry mamas.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Wow, that is so sad...the *one* place you should be able to get full support doesn't give it still.







I do know what you mean about nightweaning...my ds is 20 months, and i have tried to just cuddle him back to sleep...there is noooo way!! :LOL He is just heartbroken, and I can't do that to him. He still really needs me in that way at night, I know he won't in such a short amount of time...I think that is why it is okay for now.

Actually ekblad7+...I wish I had of listened to my insticts with my 1st ds...I gently weaned him at four. It was hard for him the first day, and then he was fine...but I didn't know anyone nursing 3(I was pregnant at the time with our third baby...I ended up losing it, and felt horrible guilt for weaning Alex), and just assumed I have two breasts, I'm only gonna nurse two...


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Wow, Adrianne.







Doesn't sound supportive at all. Sorry you had to deal with that.







:


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
:He's one right? It seems like most 1 yo nurse like newborns. Even 2 yo. Hopefully it will slow down a little after he cuts those teeth though. Here's sending some







your way for a boob break.







:

he just turned 15mo. he's at the jerking around while pinching stage... i just have to hang in there awhile and we'll hit another honeymoon period.









NAK- _of course!_


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Hi everyone! Where did ya'll go? Is everyone over on yahoo or did all those CLW "debates" on the board wear everyone out? They did me!! My little guy is going through a "No!" phase. I'm thankful that he's waited 4.75 years to have one! And I'm sooo thankful he's still nursing so we can reconnect at the end of the day.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

yeah, I was wondering if the wind has left our sails, too...


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Still here! I just have trouble keeping up with MDC these days cause it's so busy!

Nursing is better again, thankfully! He's still majorly clingy, but my new Hotslings pouch arrived today and he loves it. Tried to climb back into the pouch when I was strapping him into his carseat! :LOL

I am hosting a Nurse Out to celebrate World Breastfeeding Week... my local newspaper interviewed me over the phone and they want me to come in tomorrow and have my picture taken!!!! I'm psyched. The reporter bf her kids and was very cool. She said she'd word is as positively as she could and said she admired me for putting my toes in untested waters.

My small town is weird and neither of us can really guess what kind of turnout there will be or what kind of support it will get.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

The debates wore me out. I feel like I need to







: a little bit from you guys because I started at least one of them. I had no idea it would be like that. I'm really sorry everyone







. It's over now though, I think, so hopefully we can get passed it and move on







. I love the support we have here.

Adrianne (and others who aren't night-weaning), I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes for supporting those who felt they needed to night-wean in order to continue breastfeeding. I think what you're doing is awesome.

busybusymama, good luck with your Nurse Out!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

no way did you step on my toes, mothersunshine!







you're one of my favorites here, and I always love your insight


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
I feel like I need to







: a little bit from you guys because I started at least one of them.

Don't put yourself in the dog house! You breastfed your dd for 7 and a half YEARS!! You are our HERO!


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Jeez, I must be totally in the dark as usual. :LOL I have no idea what these debates are all about, probably better that I don't. :LOL Of course I mostly only read this thread in this forum, so that must be why!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Don't worry-- I missed the debates too. :LOL

So here's a question: how did you decide to clw? I mean, at this point it's not really an issue for me. Eli is 20 months old, he's still a baby in the eyes of most people, and he obviously needs his nursies. I intend to let him self-wean, but I have the feeling that a lot of people start out thinking that their child will self-wean, but then they get to a certain point where they can't take it anymore. I haven't reached that point, so I can't know what I'm going to do... did you reach that point, and if so how did you make the decision to keep on nursing?


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

Hi all! Still here...haven't much felt like stopping in these forums for a little while...been lurking in Activism--much more civil :LOL


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eilonwy*
So here's a question: how did you decide to clw? I mean, at this point it's not really an issue for me. Eli is 20 months old, he's still a baby in the eyes of most people, and he obviously needs his nursies. I intend to let him self-wean, but I have the feeling that a lot of people start out thinking that their child will self-wean, but then they get to a certain point where they can't take it anymore. I haven't reached that point, so I can't know what I'm going to do... did you reach that point, and if so how did you make the decision to keep on nursing?

For me, CLW just evolved. Before ds was born, I announced to everyone that I was going to bf for one year (my misguided interpretation of the AAP







). A few months into our bf journey it was obvious that this was no short-term thing, so we started going to LLL at around 8mo. There I was exposed to some "extended" nursers and Mothering! Opened my eyes to a whole new world!







It was so nice to have my instincts validated! Ds is 4.75years and I've never reached the point you describe, although when AF came back at 26months, I had some trouble once a month until my hormones got adjusted.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
The debates wore me out. I feel like I need to







: a little bit from you guys because I started at least one of them.

Oh puleeeeeze (how do you spell that?!). It was all done in good faith. So take a rest if you need one, but PLEASE, come back!! We need you.







How is your dd? Has weaning seemed to change her?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I missed the debates too. I have been spending less time on MDC so miss more of the big stuff. LOL

For me, CLW just gradually happened. At first during my first pg I said I'll try to nurse. Then it was I will nurse, for a few months. Then I said a year and the next thing I knew I was prepared to tandem nurse! However, dd weaned at 20 months when I was 2mo pg (I was still working p/t too, so I think the pg and working affected the length of our nursing relationship). I'm quite sure ds will want to nurse much, much longer. In fact, I'm not even sure I want to ttc until next spring because ds is much more needy of me than dd was (of course, she was used to being cared for by my mom, MIL or dh while I was at work). AF didn't return until ds' 13mo birthday and I'm still experiencing long cycles.

Was that a long enough explanation? Ask me a question and then you can't get me to shut up!







LOL!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma*
Was that a long enough explanation? Ask me a question and then you can't get me to shut up!







LOL!

Actually, I thought that was very concise.









While I was pregnant with Eli, I always said that I inteded to nurse for at least two years. He's now 20 months old and shows no signs of slowing; if anything, he's nursing like a newborn again. I have no interest in weaning him at all. It's not that I particularly enjoy nursing him (although it is nice that he sits still!) it's just that he so desperately needs it. His digestion has been better since my milk came back, as well as his disposition. I just can't imagine weaning him at this point, he's still such a baby in some ways, despite the fact that he's a walking talking little man.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Well...I used to think that gentle parentled weaning was the same as clw. When my first ds was born he was sick, and I was so determined to nurse him...I went to the hospital for every feeding between 5 am and 11pm, I pumped all the time(big mistake LOL), and I assumed I would nurse until a year. Cuz that's what your supposed to do, right? LOL Welll I got pregnant when ds was 7 months old(not planned), and I was so sad and scared, I refused to wean him against my mws advice. I felt like it wasn't fair...he was here first, how could I take it away? So we were tandem nursing...I was completely comfortable with nursing them, all the time, whenever, whereever. It(I) totally evolved, I used to be shy about it, but with nursing two there really isn't a chance to be shy. :LOL Well, a month or two before my ds was four I got pregnant again. I never heard of nursing three at a time, and by then I was getting so much flack from in laws that I decided to wean ds1. It was a very gentle easy weaning, but I was sad about it, and felt a gut reaction...it didn't feel right. and then a few weeks later I lost that baby. I was devistated, and so mad at myself and everyone that was pressuring me. If I had know about this group I would have let him nurse again, even while I was pregnant...it didn't matter anymore what everyone else thought, it wasn't their relationship. I got pregnant again(my only planned baby) a few months later. So when my dd hit 4 my mom and dh started asking about when she would wean, so I talked to her about it, and she clearly wasn't ready. She was much more of a nurser at 4 than my ds was, and they actually talked her into a weaning party, which we had, and she continued to nurse. :LOL I think it was very important for my dd to nurse with the new baby...she learned more about sharing and patience than I had been able to teach her all along. LOL It really helped her adjust to being a big sister. So we had a talk one day when she got very upset(seemingly out of the blue, but obviously had been brewing for a wehile)and was hysterical about not ever wanting to wean...I just reassured her that I would always be there for her no matter what, and she didn't have to wean til she was ready. That was the last night she nursed, and that was one month before she turned 5. She has asked to nurse recently and i let her try, but she couldn't do it. She was sad for a couple of days, but is fine now.
Now it is just ds2 and I nursing, and I am so afraid he will wean during this pregnancy(he is only 20 months). My milk is completely gone(which has never happened to me before)and it hurts so much to nurse. He wakes up in the middle of the night so thirsty, and it breaks my heart that I have to give him water instead of nice warm milk. It is strange to not have milk after having it for 6.5 yrs now...i didn't realize how much i used my milk, for ear aches, eye goop, owies, you name it bm made it better. LOL
anyway so sorry for the book, and lack of paragraphs.








Debi


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

For me the nursing relationship is constantly evolving. I had a great lamaze class teacher who is also my LLL leader and someone I admire. From her class I knew I would nurse. From LLL I discovered older nurslings. But mostly, from my ds' temperament I was shaped as a mother. He made me what I am today. He needed to nurse so badly! He still needs it! Also, MDC has been a great inspiration for me. And I really like the idea of parenting in the most natural way I can, so I believe that CLW is part of this. It's interesting to me to think that we might only be halfway through our nursing relationship (me and ds)...


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

How did I decide to CLW?

For me, it was a number of things, but mainly just following my mothering instincts. To me, weaning just doesn't feel right. Denying a child who wants and needs to nurse the opportunity to nurse as long as (s)he needs to goes against my instincts.

I've been blessed never to have reached the point where I can't stand it anymore. I've nursed through pregnancy, tandem nursed, tandem nursed through pregnancy and triandem nursed and have loved 99% of it. The 1% would be nursing when I'm sick or through morning sickness.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Whew...what a relief! Thanks everyone for your support.























Callmemama, dd is doing well. She still hasn't nursed since the last time I mentioned it here (about a month ago). She wants me everywhere with her lately. Lots of extra cuddles and comfort. She is adjusting. We have a strong bond so we'll get through it. She thinks about nursing sometimes but changes her mind. She knows she can if she wants to. She told me that she nursed because my milk tasted so good but when she slowed down so much that I stopped making milk, she had no reason to nurse anymore and when she would try it would just give her a tummy ache. Interesting. My hormones are adjusting. For the first time ever, I suddenly have had a desire to have another child, when before I would cry at the thought. All the looking at baby clothes, etc. ignited something:LOL. But I think it might pass, we'll see. We are all so happy the way we are. Thanks for asking.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
For me the nursing relationship is constantly evolving. I had a great lamaze class teacher who is also my LLL leader and someone I admire. But mostly, from my ds' temperament I was shaped as a mother. He made me what I am today. He needed to nurse so badly! He still needs it! Also, MDC has been a great inspiration for me. And I really like the idea of parenting in the most natural way I can, so I believe that CLW is part of this. It's interesting to me to think that we might only be halfway through our nursing relationship (me and ds)...

I was influenced by my lamaze teacher too (though lamaze didn't help me much :LOL). She was also my LC who made it possible for us to continue because the first 2 weeks were so hard that I might have had to give up otherwise (my right nipple was literally torn off from a bad latch







). She got us on track. After the first year, I just went with what felt natural. Like Adrianne said, dd's needs shaped me as a mother. CLW just happened. Along the way I did receive plenty of pressure to wean(esp at birthdays







), and a couple of times I got off track and tried but it always ended in tears and heartbreak. Breastfeeding always felt right to me, it never became something that I loathed. It was always outside pressure that interrupted us. But we quickly got back on track and it led us here.

What a heartfelt story Mamamoo







. BTW, I wish I would have known about the healing wonders of breastmilk! I had no idea how many things it can cure! I always knew about the inner healing, but not the external things like earaches and such.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I was talking with friends (who were part of an AP community I had once belonged to) whom I hadn't seen in a looong while yesterday and they were talking about mama-led weaning when their children were 2 years or less...mostly because it was "too incovienient" or because they were doing it to make their dh's happy or because nursing just didn't fit into their lives anymore.

I did a very good job of keeping my mouth shut ... in the beginning.







Another friend mentioned that she weaned her first child early, at age 2. They were taken aback at the notion of "early weaning" being associated with 2 years of age. They asked, if 2 years is early, what normal would be. I responded that normal is whenever the child decides to wean.

One mama asked at what age the oldest nursling I knew of weaned ... I said 7.5 years (







mother sunshine!!!). Their jaws dropped and then I said, in a very casual manner, "Oh, didn't you know that Alex self-weaned on his fifth birthday?" They then did the math and one said, "You mean you nursed all THREE of them?" I said, "Yes. Isn't that GREAT?!?







And I have a feeling that Haley will nurse much longer than Alex." They nodded and changed the subject. I think I definitely gave them something to think about!

So that got me thinking ... why is weaning a babe at age 1 or 2 called "weaning" and not "early weaning"? Why isn't weaning before a child is ready called "curtailed nursing"? Why is the active weaning of a baby considered normal while the normal length of nursing of a child seen as abnormal?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings*
So that got me thinking ... why is weaning a babe at age 1 or 2 called "weaning" and not "early weaning"? Why isn't weaning before a child is ready called "curtailed nursing"? Why is the active weaning of a baby considered normal while the normal length of nursing of a child seen as abnormal?









I consider my dd weaning at 20 months as "early" weaning. I feel that circumstances led her to wean sooner than she would have if I had been a SAHM and/or not pregnant. KWIM?

I'm very glad I never prevented her from nursing and I never initiated weaning (although sippy cups of water while I was at work may have interfered but she never took milk and only rarely drinks milk now) and that weaning was gradual and literally painless- although pg had probably dried up some of the milk.

I am curious how long ds will nurse and I wonder how long dd might have nursed (or would still be?) if circumstances had been different. She did try to nurse a few times after ds was born but has never been able to do it- she has a very loving association with the boobies though!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Amanda, Glad I could make some jaws drop







:LOL

I agree that weaning before a child is ready should be considered early weaning or premature weaning. Maybe society will eventually come around. Our numbers here at MDC at least seem to be growing, and people are learning...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I think it's not called abridged nursing or anything like that because of the negative connotation. Even if a mother is deliberately weaning her child, gently or otherwise, they don't want to believe they're cutting a stage of development short. That messes with people.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I forgot to mention the times when I couldn't stand nursing...I mean I have always loved it, and knew it was the right thing for us, but there were times(mostly after AF came back) that I thought I would go crazy...there was also a time when ds was 3 and dd was about 20 months that I was getting literally 2 or so hours of sleep a night. One would wake to nurse and as soonas I got 1st kiddo back to sleep the other would wake, I have a really hard time sleeping while nursing. It got so bad that I was thinking of weaning ds...and then someone at LLL suggested night weaning, so I gently weaned ds at night. I still nursed him to sleep but when he woke up in the night I explained to him he could nurse as soon as the sun came up. It took maybe a few days to a week of him waking frequently, he wasn't very upset, just in the habit of waking I think. Then he slept through the night. It seriously saved my life I think. The lack of sleep changed who I was, during the day, and night. I was angry and resentful...it was hard. Then about a year later dd night weaned on her own.
That was the hardest nursing time, well right now isn't super easy with all of my milk being gone, my nipples HURT!








Debi


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I had many times w/DD where I felt really fed up and tired of/with nursing. I didn't wean her, though, because I felt that I (alone) did not have that right. Part of my agreeing to parenthood, IMO, was meeting my childrens *needs*. Hey, there are many times I've not wanted to change a diaper, either, but you do it and get on.

That said, while I was pg w/DS, DH & I did partially night wean DD (for 4-5 hours a night). I really did get to a point where I couldn't deal anymore w/out getting more than 90 minutes of continuous sleep. But, if it hadn't been easy (showing me that it was no longer a true need for DD, then just over 2, to nurse every 1-2 hours) I would have looked for another solution.

Now, changing subjects, I need some advice.

DD was born in 1/99 and weaned 3/03. She was not thrilled w/weaning, but it was her choice (she couldn't get any milk anymore and didn't want to nurse anymore if she couldn't. I told her she didn't need to get milk to nurse, but she was *not* into that). Well, its now been over a year and where she was asking maybe once a month to "try" to nurse she has seriously upped it. Like more than once a day. I am totally fine w/nursing a 5 year old, no problems there, but it's just getting to a point where I can't figure out *why* she is doing it. It doesn't bring her satisfaction. It frustrates her that she doesn't get anything. She never asks except when DS is already nursing. In some ways, I feel like she *needs* to be done, but doesn't know how to make that step. And, in my beliefs of clw I feel *so* uncomfortable just cutting it off. But, at this point it is just annoying. I am fine with her touching my breasts (we often cuddle w/me just in panties and her naked or in her night diaper--- that's not an issue). I'm fine with her "playing piggy" (her and DS burry their noses and mouths in my breast fat and make oinky noises, lol). Whatever. I'm just not seeing her daily "trying" to suck on my nipple (as it has increased to that) as being actually benificial.

Input? Other ways of looking at it? What would you do? Oh, btw, DS will be three in August and nurses often. DD only seems to ask to nurse when we are in bed, though (never out and about or in front of friends, etc...). In fact, not in front of *anyone* (including DH).


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

Have you been able to talk with her...sounds like she might be jealous of the nursing attention little brother gets. Maybe you can make a point next time she asks to say wow...looks like you are probably feeling left out, why don't we go do something fun this weekend just the two of us? I think that the one on one time is so important for my kids...and I know I huge part of the reason my dd was so upset that night(see my above post) is that her baby brother nursed all the time, and she was left out, and maybe not getting all the one on one she needed. She seemed like she was ready to stop, but was having a hard time...
I don't know mama...I know it's hard, just wanted to share my experience.
Hugs, Debi


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thanks Debi, I'll try to talk to her tonight.

One big problem is DS is a little ham.







So, it *is* funny and fun to be around him when he is casually nursing (pretending to be a piggy, jumping on me, making the nursies run away, etc...). I can see why she would want to be included!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I wanted to echo the posters who described clw as a "process" and a product of their relationship with their children. Once Ellie and I were a "nursing couple", I knew it wasn't just about me. It was about her, and nursing is a relationship. She was an avid nurser, very sensitive and loving child. How could I take away something that meant so much to her? It didn't seem to me that was good for either of us.

Through the years, I have contemplated what it would be like if she weaned. I got scared when I had an ectopic pregnancy and wondered if I would be able to get pregnant again. I knew I had to trust my body and I did a lot of reading on nursing through pregnancy. In the last year or so, when her nursing has been less and less, I would ask her if she was weaned, and she always said, "No". Once when she got sick last winter, she informed me it was because she "wasn't nursing enough". I guess she knew she too much about the benefits!

Now, I think she still wants to feel like she "can". That that connection is still there for her. Like mother sunshine's dd, she always talks about the "warm milk" and how good it tastes. CLW is just another act of faith, I guess. I don't want to end our nursing relationship by saying "that's it". I believe she is doing what is right for herself, I don't let an age deter me from my belief in that.


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

I agree.







I think my advice just came from having a daughter who was struggling about wanting to be done, but was scared...I was sad in a way that she forgot how after four months when she wanted to try again, but also know that she really, truely got what she needed. I can't wait to see what happens with my youngest two(my ds now, and the baby due in Dec). It is amazing the bond a nursing relationship provides. I







it so much!! I don't even know what I will do in 5 or six years(or when ever the last baby is done)nursing has been such a HUGE part of my life.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Once when she got sick last winter, she informed me it was because she "wasn't nursing enough". I guess she knew she too much about the benefits!

:LOL
Isn't it wonderful that they are old enough to remember breastfeeding (the benefits, the comfort, the natural normality of it) and take it with them in their journeys of life.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Like mother sunshine's dd, she always talks about the "warm milk" and how good it tastes. CLW is just another act of faith, I guess. I don't want to end our nursing relationship by saying "that's it". I believe she is doing what is right for herself, I don't let an age deter me from my belief in that.
















I completely agree with you Joan.
















TiredX2, It sounds like she just wants to know it's there for her too. I have no advice, just







.

eilonwy, you have BEAUTIFUL children.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I think I've said it before, but I just want to say it again. My hat is off to all you CLW mama's of more than one! Nursing thru pregnancy, morning sickness, tandem, triandem, etc. Wow! Its a whole 'nother ballgame from nursing an only (which I







, btw).


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

I voted no. I think that it's impotant for newer ebfers (1-2 yo) to "see" CLW posts as part of the ebf norm so that it mentally becomes something they percieve as "normal." Older nurslings are not something you see IRL and if you move these posts to a seperate forum, casual EBF brousers won't see them either.


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## lunchbox (May 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*

One big problem is DS is a little ham.







So, it *is* funny and fun to be around him when he is casually nursing (pretending to be a piggy, jumping on me, making the nursies run away, etc...). I can see why she would want to be included!

Last night, Lucy was nursing with nothing but the goggles from her tool kit on. And lately, she has decided that she is a snake and has to slither up to my boobs.

Nursing a toddler IS an adventure!


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## mamamoo (Apr 29, 2002)

:LOL How sweet! Have any of you read adventures in tandem nursing? I really want to read it!! I am bummed because I had the opportunity to contribute to it, but I was having a hard time after my m/c and never turned something in. That would've been neat. :LOL


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I've read Adventures in Tandem Nursing and I'm in it, too!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I totally want to read it - it's on my list


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Last night, Lucy was nursing with nothing but the goggles from her tool kit on. And lately, she has decided that she is a snake and has to slither up to my boobs.








: That was a big surprise w/DS. He loves being non-mammilian animals (like turtles) and still nursing. DD understood VERY YOUNG that only mammals nursed and would *switch* animals if she wanted to nurse.

I still haven't read adventures in tandem nursing. I kinda stopped reading nursing/weaning books when DD weaned.


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

Hey all...I am so slow to post these days...family medical crisis (dad has to go in nursing home). And since my experiences are amazingly mirrored by mother_sunshine< I finsd sometimes all I have to say is "me too".

But I have come to believe that here anyway it is good for me to say that...as a LLL Leader, I have to be "careful" describing my personal experience to new moms. It's nice to be able to have somewhere to say--I planned to nurse for 2 years, but had a niece who nursed til 4 and thought that would be okay, then found that off and on, we were still nursing past 7...
Mom4tot, your description of your dd's feelings so closeley echo Delia's...she no longer really wants to nurse as much as she needs to know that I will say yes, that I won't deny her the safety and love she felt at the breast. I remind myself often that the etymology of wean is "satisfy." I think Delia is finally weaned because her need has finally been satisfied...

Tiredx2: just from my own perspective and memories, but certain ages were ones where dd just needed to take a step back to go forward. Not that big on Doc Brazelton, but that is one insight of his that I found to be profoundly true--touchpoints: when they are faced with a big leap in development (starting speech, starting walking, starting reading...), kids "regress" to an earlier stage to fortify themselves. How often do you hear someone say that a nearly year-old child is "nursing like a newborn"? I always think, "getting ready to walk". I have come to feel that such times are almost as predictable as a young baby's growth spurts. A friend and I both noted the behavior in our kindrgarteners just before reading took off. Anyway, that's my perspective. It helped me to savor the moment and look at her increased need positively--now I have to find the tool that will help her when she's faced with the first phone call to ask out a boy. Nursing won't work then, but maybe this ol' lap will still be big enough for some cuddles...
this mothering is sure an interesting journey...


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

darlindeliasmom......me too


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

I am so sad right now. One of my old friends from CA just emailed me. She is going to be away from her dd (1 yr old) for 3 days and is weaning her because of it. I emailed her back saying that she didn't have to wean, that our milk doesn't dry up that quickly and she could return to nursing when she comes back, and how the WHO and other organizations recommend at least 2yrs, etc. and gave her a couple of links. I hope I didn't come off as pushy. I told her we did child-led but I didn't want to tell her how long because I am afraid it'll scare her into weaning







. But if she asks I'll tell her. This just makes me so sad.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh, Mother Sunshine, that is really sad.







Why does she have to leave her baby for three days anyway? So this baby will be weaned and have his mother suddenly gone? All at once? That's very sad.









Sorry to be judgemental. I'm so glad you gave her the info you did though. Now she knows her options for sure. I'm sure her baby will appreciate it.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

That is sad







You did the right thing by giving her information, even if she doesn't change her mind. I thinkk people sometimes think this will be "easiest"....on them. You know? They think the baby will be distracted and forget about it. The poor baby is going to grieve and grieve. What will she do when the baby cries to nurse when she returns??


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I think it's great that you shared that info. She might believe that her milk will be gone when she gets back, ya never know. I know I'd be in major pain if I abruptly weaned, especially now.









I've been surprised at how little some moms know about how breastfeeding works, but then again I have learned most of my knowledge from my online bf advocates!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi Joan! Where have you been? I've missed you around here.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
The poor baby is going to grieve and grieve. What will she do when the baby cries to nurse when she returns??
















I know, this is the part that just breaks my heart.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

It's great that you shared the info with her ... at least she knows her options. It really does break my heart.

Some of my family members don't understand why we won't leave our kids to go on a long weekend by ourselves and view breastfeeding older nurslings as unnecessary and inconvenient. Ummm....I'm the one nursing my kids and I'm the one who doesn't mind not going on long weekends with my dh (neither does he!). It's not in the least unnecessary or imconvenient for us.

What I find humorous is that my boys (4 and 5) do sleep over my parents house, and when they have the boys overnight, they "babysit" Haley for the afternoon/evening as well so dh and I can go out. Most times, we go to a movie, grab a bite to eat, and talk about the kids! :LOL One time there were no good movies playing and we literally couldn't come up with anything to do that would be more fun without kids, and often talk about how much more fun we'd have if the kids were with us. We enjoy our kids' company. I enjoy nursing Haley as we hike through the woods, watching my kids explore and learn outdoors or at museums, etc. Dh and I have MORE fun with our kids than just the two of us. If we had the opportunity to take a long weekend somewhere, we couldn't imagine not bringing the kids!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings*
One time there were no good movies playing and we literally couldn't come up with anything to do that would be more fun without kids, and often talk about how much more fun we'd have if the kids were with us. We enjoy our kids' company. I enjoy nursing Haley as we hike through the woods, watching my kids explore and learn outdoors or at museums, etc. Dh and I have MORE fun with our kids than just the two of us. If we had the opportunity to take a long weekend somewhere, we couldn't imagine not bringing the kids!


Yeah! we did a babysitting exchange with a friend last week, and when it was our turn to go out, just the two of us, we were clueless as to what to do!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Us too. Dh and I like having dd with us. It's more fun when we're all together. Plus if we do or see something cool we wish she was there so we could share it with her.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks guys for your support re: my friend weaning.







(And it's good to see you back Joan







)

I'm glad that you all agree that I did the right thing. She and I have always been very different people, but I thought she was becoming a more in-tune mother (she didn't bf her first child at all). I think she is strongly influenced by her sister. I don't know how much influence I have but maybe she will read the links and think about the results abrupt weaning will have on her dd.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Mamas,

Maybe not every one has tough days but I do and today is one of them. I don't feel playful and the things my 3 yr old does which play with the boundaries and find the edge of how dictating he can be are like mosquitos in my ear.

I was going to go someshere else to post because I didn't want to post a downer message, but the forum jump link wouldn't work.







So, I posted here because really I do not want to hear how I should wean, let son cry to sleep, get a baby sitter and take the day off or any of the other things that are common to give mamas a little more space. And I NEED MORE SPACE! What do you do to regain balance when you feel all out of sorts?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I'm probably not the best to offer advice, because my dd didn't quite make it to two years nursing unfortunately (and my currently nursing nurse-aholic ds is only 16mo)... but wanted to offer hugs. I have off days too, usually when I don't get my morning-before-the-kids-wake up exercise or when I don't eat very well. Make sure you are going to bed at a decent hour, the dishes can wait until tomorrow!







I used to stay up late trying to catch up and then surf the net, but I was tired and grumpy and that just doesn't work for me!


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I had to laugh when I was re-reading my post. If I was posting at a mainstream bulletin board, I would consider myself quite the extended nurser... but here I didn't even nurse all that long! :LOL I'm so glad I didn't make dd wean, but I sure wish circumstances would have been a little different, I think she would have nursed longer instead of weaning due to short separations while I worked p/t and my pregnancy.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

hummingbear, We all have been there, I think. I know I have. It does get better. I can only tell you what worked for me in those times when I was feeling spent. I used to go to a movie by myself, or for an hour swim, or anywhere where I could just think and breathe by myself. Even if it was just a short bath with the door closed and candles lit. Anything to take a step back and remind myself what really matters. It was for such a short time, and she was happy to get some alone time with dh, so it wasn't like I was neglecting her or being a bad mom. Those few moments of space to reflect (or just release) made a huge difference. And I always came back missing her and ready to embrace motherhood again.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

What do you do to regain balance when you feel all out of sorts?
If I can (like right now): eat something (turkey sandwich & a Thomas Kemper grape soda), go to MDC or read a book (coming up next)









If I can't, repeat inside my head "I DO love them, I DO love them" and try to do some touching that *I* want (tickles, zerberts, chasing around) instead of the marathon latch


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)




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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

I hear you. Giving up that which is usually suggested that one give up (i.e., nursing, cosleeping, etc.) would only leave me feeling worse! I have so very little use for most of the parenting books out there.

I have a few mantras that I use to keep calm at a given moment. But to collect myself, I do these things:

--Rarely do housework during my son's nap. That's where I get my ME time. My husband is totally on-board with it, never mentions it when the kitchen is a total sty. During his nap, I read, sew, etc. -- anything that rejuvenates. It is best if I stay away from email. These days, since I'm pregnant, I mostly sleep with him, which leaves me starved for my 'me' time.

--If the day is particularly hard, I might read something inspiring during his nap or while he's playing by himself (which rarely happens on the days where he's having a tough time). I'll read Inbal Kashtan's book, "Parenting from the Heart" or even Raising Your Spirited Child, etc. Something to help me gain perspective. For some reason, this age of three has had me praying for perspective more than anything else!

--Another possibility, though this is very difficult on a tough day, is to call a friend. I'm a strong extravert, so I really need adult contact to gain energy. I literally could feel tired before talking to a friend and then feel totally energetic after talking to a friend. So I might call a friend who loves mothering as much as I do who will be empathic and inspiring, with whom I can laugh, who won't suggest that I put him in daycare, his own bed, etc.

--If my son doesn't nap or the day is excrutiatingly hard on us, I take a 20-minute bath when my husband gets home. I read O magazine (Oprah), because it's always uplifting. It's a rule not to read Mothering magazine when I'm trying to relax, because it makes me think too much (which is why I adore the magazine, of course, but for me, it doesn't serve the purpose of helping me totally melt away in 20 minutes!).

--If I'm in the middle of the day and there's no nap a-comin', or for whatever reason I need some way to collect myself without somebody else helping (my son napping or my husband coming or somebody else coming to give me relief), then I do something special with my son, usually where we get out of the house. We go to the park with a picnic, go get a bite to eat at one of his favorite joints, etc. That helps us re-connect and I, in turn, collect myself.

If it helps, my son is almost 3.5, and the last six months have been the worst of my mothering. I never dreamed I would be so inept at mothering him as I have been in the last six months. Things are looking up, though, we're getting energy therapy and it's fantastic for all of us.

My son's calling ... Take care of you!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Clarification please (based on comments in the *other* CLW conversation):

Are people who night wean or do any other weaning techniques welcome here? Or only mommas who do no limits whatsoever?

TIA,
Kay


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Kay, I don't have much time now, but I just wanted to welcome you. I "night weaned" both of my children meaning encouraging them to sleep through to morning. By the time they were 2 or so, we started talking about waiting until the sun came up to nurse. Both children did this easily and without crying in the night or anything.

I don't typically nurse Ben in public (once he was over 3 or so..he is also big for his age) but I would if it seemed necessary. Does that help?


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

After last night, the idea of nightweaning sounds kinda nice (but still not worth the effort, LOL!)...

I don't see any problem at all with setting boundaries after the age of 2 or so (and of course, this age is just a little guideline I set for myself because at age 16mo my ds depends very much on me for not only comfort but also nutrition). I think the key is being flexible if you are setting boundaries and not forcing the child to wean. JMO though.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thanks guys!!!

I don't (in my heart) feel DD CLW because of the limits we set while I was pg (at least one 4 hour shift at night w/no nursing, cut down during the day, etc...) but I do like to hang out. I am probably CRL but I like to dream


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I had the impression that in this thread there are moms who never night-weaned or set limits, and there are moms who did night-wean - gently, etc. The parameters of CLW are a little bit mushy, much like anything else in parenting, every child/parent/situation is different. Generally it seems that we here all strive to meet our dc's nursing needs and allow to nurse as long as they need to.

For me, personally, I have a ds who wouldn't let me night-wean him. So even though I tried, briefly (







: ) I was unsuccessful, and now thankful for it. He is just starting to sleep longer stretches now, and I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel. Four hours might become eight someday! And not long ago it was just one or two hour stretches!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

What I meant to say is that, TiredX2 (you're still a WINNER!), maybe you did CLW after all? BC I think it's ok to set *some* limits after a certain age (like now that ds is almost 2.5) but the limits are limited and not too often... does that make sense? Like, I can't nurse ds when we're walking down a crowded dirty street, bc there is nowhere to sit and he's too heavy to sling, etc. So that's sort of a limit, I guess? It's reality... but he still gets to nurse basically whenever he wants, within reason, outside of the very few limits that may be set.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Hi Kay,

Definitions do seem mushy, like we human folk do not quite conform to a few clearly defined peg holes, or extremes on a graph, but show a whole spectrum of behaviors. So having said, that my humble answer to your question

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
Clarification please (based on comments in the *other* CLW conversation):

Are people who night wean or do any other weaning techniques welcome here? Or only mommas who do no limits whatsoever?

is ...... I welcome you here. I have heard others say that setting limits is different than making a choice to wean and I would agree. I know that I have heard stories of limits that mother's set which difinitely resulted in their young one weaning. So it is kind of vague isn't it. Maybe there is a magical age which it is ok to set limits, maybe not.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
For me, personally, I have a ds who wouldn't let me night-wean him. So even though I tried, briefly (







: ) I was unsuccessful, and now thankful for it. He is just starting to sleep longer stretches now, and I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel. Four hours might become eight someday! And not long ago it was just one or two hour stretches!

I think I remember reading your story and commenting on how similar your DS is to mine. Four hours did lengthen to eight? We are not consistent; last night was a not so restful, and other nights have resulted in 8 unbroken hours of sleep. But the first 4 hour stretch showed up only last summer after he turned 2. At this point I do not know how I functioned on 1 to 2 hours for the first 2+ years; and I'm not so sure I would "choose" the same way again if the chance to choose ever came my way again although like you I'm not so sure I ever reallly had a choice here to begin with although I never had a concerted effort at night weaning. I just know that changing what he wanted at night was non-negotiable.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Thank you for your responses. They really helped me out and I have been eagerly checking often for more. Every day a new lesson


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

TiredX2, you are _so_ welcome here!


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

I can tell you got the picture. your words are so helpful.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I agree. I think it's awesome when a child isn't forced to wean... again, I see no problem with restrictions within reason if they don't basically make the child give up. KWIM?

And Adrianne- I don't even really view walking down the street as a true restriction.







It is, but it isn't. Just not practical to sit in the street and nurse a wiggly toddler! :LOL


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I am suddenly feeling self conscious!

I just want to clarify...that when I say, "night wean", I meant asking them before bed (we all cosleep), if we could wait until the sun came up to nurse again....this was always when they were well over 2, and only nursing one time in the night. If they woke and wanted to nurse, we nursed.

Ben asked to nurse in the bookstore a few weeks ago, it was crowded and we were getting ready to check out. I asked him to wait until we got to the van or got home, he said (so cutely), "am I weaned in public?" We talked about it later and he doesn't even usually ask out.

Anyway....it hasn't seemed to deter them any









But, I agree that too many restrictions, or arbitrary ones can lead to weaning and sometimes are used for that purpose. I was never trying to wean them.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

My goodness!
I am quite familiar with the the thought and feeling of "oh no I didn't do it right". I hope you are feeling every bit of a conciously loving Mother today!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
I am suddenly feeling self conscious!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Thanks hummingbear









I just read that "other" thread. I guess I look at "how weaning happens" as a variety of choices we make along the way. I never considered it my decision to totally cease my nursing relationships with my children...nursing is just such a part of our lives. I also didn't consider it "encouraging weaning" to say no on occassion (and I don't mean often). I suppose I fit into the "ecological" nurser, but also never knew what that was. I just wanted Kay to feel welcome because I "know" her from other forums. I am kind of glad I didn't see that other thread!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thanks all!!! It is not really impt to me to be able to say, "I CLW" but it *is* important to me that I'm not somewhere I don't belong.










Quote:

He is just starting to sleep longer stretches now, and I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel. Four hours might become eight someday! And not long ago it was just one or two hour stretches!
I never know if I should laugh or cry about night weaning to eight hours, LOL.

When I night weaned DD it was *to* four hours







You think nursing while being pg is uncomfortable, try nursing during transition! The things we do, huh?

But, I have HUGE news...

DS slept 5 HOURS last night. In a row. Without nursing. I nursed him down at 11 (for the third time that night) and had DH move him to his own bed (for a few minutes I thought







). He wasn't in our bed when DH woke up at 4am!!! DH brough him in (I didn't want him waking up alone and *ME* having to go get him) and he nursed right away.

Makes me wonder if he is ready for a bit more space?







Anyway, I really could not believe it!!! He has gone 5 hours before (I had night weaned him one week, up to 4-5 hours) but never all by himself. BTW, today is his 3rd birthday so I felt esp good about it. He is eating German Pancakes right now and what a big guy







I see the very faintest glimmer of light at the end of my sleepless tunnel (no more than 4 hours in a row for the last almost 6 years) and boy does it FEEL GOOD!!!


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I voted No just because I would like to see CLW issues within the extended / sustained breastfeeding forum instead of seperate, I am afraid that if we split them up that some longer bf'ing Mommas might not see all the posts on the regular EBF board because they are looking at the CLW board and I think it's important to have their input on that board.

Is that clear or does it sound stupid? It was hard to put into words!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
I think I remember reading your story and commenting on how similar your DS is to mine. Four hours did lengthen to eight? We are not consistent; last night was a not so restful, and other nights have resulted in 8 unbroken hours of sleep. But the first 4 hour stretch showed up only last summer after he turned 2. At this point I do not know how I functioned on 1 to 2 hours for the first 2+ years; and I'm not so sure I would "choose" the same way again if the chance to choose ever came my way again although like you I'm not so sure I ever reallly had a choice here to begin with although I never had a concerted effort at night weaning. I just know that changing what he wanted at night was non-negotiable.










OMG Hummingbear! (and TiredX2)! I haven't gotten anywhere near eight hours yet! I'm praying for the future 8 I might get someday! I'm just elated that every once in a while he now goes as long as four! But it's still usually more like 2-3 hours. I've really lost track, since I sleep through most of it. Ds will be 2.5 yo next month, and I still don't see any light at the end of the tunnel regarding co-sleeping or night waking. But it has improved a lot over the past few months! Slowly but surely....


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
Mamas,

Maybe not every one has tough days but I do and today is one of them. I don't feel playful and the things my 3 yr old does which play with the boundaries and find the edge of how dictating he can be are like mosquitos in my ear.

I was going to go someshere else to post because I didn't want to post a downer message, but the forum jump link wouldn't work.







So, I posted here because really I do not want to hear how I should wean, let son cry to sleep, get a baby sitter and take the day off or any of the other things that are common to give mamas a little more space. And I NEED MORE SPACE! What do you do to regain balance when you feel all out of sorts?

Hummingbear, I remember us sharing sleep stories a while back... I've been meaning to respond to this post and I forgot (sorry...)

I make sure that naptime is *me* time (although he is starting to lose the naps...







). I mainly read or surf MDC during naptime. I also take as much advantage of DH as possible when he is home. I figure my job and his job are at least equally challenging, and even when he is home I'm still "on the clock" even when he is taking care of ds (unless I actually leave home for something). So dh is in charge of bathtime and toileting and play for the majority of his home time. We take turns making dinner, etc. I'm still mainly responsible for cleaning, shopping, etc...

ds is calling... maybe naptime will come after all!

Take care of yourself!


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
I voted No just because I would like to see CLW issues within the extended / sustained breastfeeding forum instead of seperate, I am afraid that if we split them up that some longer bf'ing Mommas might not see all the posts on the regular EBF board because they are looking at the CLW board and I think it's important to have their input on that board.

Is that clear or does it sound stupid? It was hard to put into words!

Yes, that's clear. And with the current discussion/debate over the exact definition of CLW, and how some are feeling worried that they are not CLW, I think I'm agreeing with you.







: I never intended it to be this way. I simply thought that an area of common ground would be a good idea, not a place to instill more worries about being a mother.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Oops I didn't mean to question you whether you were getting 8 hours - that was supposed to be an exclamation point that my 3 1/2 yr old just recently will occassionally go for 8 hours at night. For the first 26 months it was never more than 1 1/2 or 2 hours. So I know the blessed 4 hours that you are talking about. I just wanted to share that it did indeed become longer than 4 hours even though I had long stopped trying to expect when it would be.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdrianneWe*
OMG Hummingbear! (and TiredX2)! I haven't gotten anywhere near eight hours yet! I'm praying for the future 8 I might get someday! I'm just elated that every once in a while he now goes as long as four! But it's still usually more like 2-3 hours. I've really lost track, since I sleep through most of it. Ds will be 2.5 yo next month, and I still don't see any light at the end of the tunnel regarding co-sleeping or night waking. But it has improved a lot over the past few months! Slowly but surely....


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*
Yes, that's clear. And with the current discussion/debate over the exact definition of CLW, and how some are feeling worried that they are not CLW, I think I'm agreeing with you.







: I never intended it to be this way. I simply thought that an area of common ground would be a good idea, not a place to instill more worries about being a mother.









I respectfully disagree, Michelle







This is by far the most comfortable thread I have participated in the breastfeeding forum. I am not comfortable with all the threads on weaning, etc. I see a big difference between talking to your toddler about getting more sleep and seeing if you both can sleep a little longer and doing disrespectful things to get a baby to "sleep through the night". I also see a big difference between saying "no" to your preschooler in the grocery checkout line (or in line at the bookstore) and saying no in hope's of eliminating a feeding or cutting down on nursing.

I still think the forum for CLW is very important because it isn't the norm and is an ideal (INMO). If my statements have made anyone uncomfortable, I would sooner just lurk here. I know that we CLW and that Mothering is one of the only places we can discuss it...I just think black and white statements on the other thread are ridiculous, and is probably why I don't participate much in those discussions. I thought you did a great job, btw.

I mean, if I don't belong in CLW, so be it, but please don't judge the usefulnessof the forum based on my musings today.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I agree with Joan. I feel much more at ease on this thread than I have on other threads - esp the ones that are discussing weaning. I feel like I am constantly ducking my head on those threads, but here I know I am with my tribe.

I think that if a CLW Forum is established, it would validate this mothering approach as well as advertise it.

I don't think it would isolate posters into the one forum, bc I'm pretty sure many of us visit more than one forum. I for one would continue to browse the other forums that I do.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Ya know what? I haven't even been reading the posts at EB forum, only this thread and I read/post at Support and Advocacy. My online time has been a bit more limited lately, so I am unable to keep up with my top 5 favorite forums lately.

I try not to read threads about weaning because it feels so wrong *to me* to force weaning, but sometimes you just can't tell by the title.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Joan, Adrianne, Michelle, you're right. I was wrong. I was all caught up in the other discussion. I could feel so much pressure and sadness and second-guessing-oneself over in the other thread that I took Joan's post (and others) here the wrong way. I'm really sorry about that, especially to you Joan (my kindred spirit







). Sometimes I forget to take a step back before blurting out what's on my sometimes-misunderstanding mind.

I'll keep standing for our cause.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

You know, it occurred to me that I can proudly say I didn't night-wean ds and that we are CLW'ers, BUT I haven't been pregnant while nursing, nor do I have other children to care for. AND ds began sleeping through the night (almost like magic!) at the age of 2.5!! I might be in a completely different boat if circumstances were different, kwim? But I'm really glad I'm in this boat!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

I have to share this! I had my annual today, with the NP, who I'd never met, instead of my ob/gyn. Ds was with me (he'll be 5 in Nov). The NP looked over my chart and casually asked if I was still nursing. This in and of itself was pretty cool, I thought. When I said yes, she asked "occasionally"? I told her nightly. We talked about osteoporosis and she asked me if I'd had a bone scan, and I started telling her how I'd researched it and since I was still nursing ... she interrupted with a smile and said that nursing helps ... I was just tickled pink to have all this acceptance/positiveness about nursing an almost-5-yo!! And where could I share about this but here?!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

The NP looked over my chart and casually asked if I was still nursing.
How validating! She sounds great


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I was (rapidly) looking through posts trying to catch up and I noticed mention of nightweaning and how it pertains to CLW. I have been thinking about this a lot lately and here's my reasoning:
In child-led weaning, the child leads the way, but the mother does sometimes set limits or restrictions within the capabilities of her nursling. Asking a nursling not to nurse at night or for the portion of the night and doing this in a loving respectful manor can go along with CLW ... however if it is done against the child's wishes, and needs, causing undo stress, then the child wouldn't be leading the way, the mother would. To me, child-led weaning leaves room for the support and encouragement by the mother in the weaning process.

Recently I've been using the term "natural weaning" to describe what we do in our famly. I don't encourage weaning at all and let my children wean at their own pace. I do set limits, within reason, every once in a while ... like not pulling over to nurse my 4 year old while we're on our way somewhere (unless it's a loooong car trip, of course!) or telling my 2 year old that she had to wait to nurse until after I received communion and got back to my seat, when she asked me to nurse as we were approaching the altar!

That said, I think that the definitions of child-led weaning and natural weaning do vary (especially CLW) and do mean different things to different people.

I LOVE this thread and the support it offers to those of us who believe that the nurslings should be the ones to choose when they wean.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I just realized, as I hit post, that I've been nursing my daughter throughout my reading and typing in this forum. Is anyone at the point in which you just don't notice when your child is nursing sometimes? There have been several times lately that I've been looking for Haley, wondering where she could've gone, and then realized that she was in the sling nursing or on my lap nursing.









Oh...and a cute conversation I had with Haley while putting her to bed a few nights ago...

Haley (age 2): We need a new baby in our house. A little one.

Me: Really? Where are we going to get a new baby?

Haley: You can grow one in yours belly and it will come out yours yoni.

Me: Really? That would be nice.

Haley: Yes. And I will nurse the babies. Two babies. One for each my breasts.

Me: Do your breasts make mamamilk?

Haley: *sigh*







No, Mama. They make milk affer babies are born!








I guess she's been listening to and comprehending what I've been saying to our 16 year old friend about pregnancy and breastfeeding! :LOL (This 16 year old girl has attended two of my children's births and has seen me nurse/tandem nurse through pregnancy, triandem nurse, CLW, etc.!).


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

T

Has anyone heard from MamaAllNatural lately? She hasn't been here in a while and I'm starting to worry about her.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Posted 8/20:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
And now I'm off for a three week trip to see my family out of state. I'm leaving in a half hour to take my three little ones on the airplane by myself.







:


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## bente (Apr 1, 2002)

I am Tandem nursing my two boys and it was such a nice feeling to be nursing an infant because there was once again smiles and sweet gazes at me and baby nursing (of course these people would not still be smiling sweetly if they stayed around for my 3 year old to nurse.)
So, now my baby is 1, the age when everyone in my country weans their babies and it makes me so sad. It makes me sad for the babies who do not understand why they are being denied this birth right because of arbitrary social "rules". And it makes me sad for us, because we are once again "not the norm".
I would never change my belief on CLW, and my children show me every day that they know what they need. I read a signature line here once that said "once you know your choices, there are no choices."
I am sure that some of my nursing aversion or nursing burn out if that is what it is called, is brought on by not feeling supported. My husband is great support and I have a wonderful sister who supports me unconditionally ( I think she may have the same feelings with her own child from lack of support). But other than that, there is no one here who is even remotly supportive.
So, yeah, it would be great to have a forum just for us. But how cool would it be for ds to look over at other 3,4,5... year olds nursing happily with their happy relaxed mamas in real life????!!
Now I'm dreaming, but then there is always that commune thing.........hmmmm


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## fraya (Apr 13, 2002)

bente: I traveled to Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Greece with my nursing 2.5 y.o. a year ago. I was surprised that i didn't get more looks, but I was a weird American anyway! My husband is a Swede, so I am keenly aware of the strong normative values in that region of the world [stronger than in parts of the US]. I feel grateful that at least the government's advocating for breastfeeding in Norway has resulted in a change of norms there to at least breastfeed for a while. Still, as you say, it is so sad to see that bond being abruptly broken by a parent for no other reason than that other people do it.

I feel grateful that you have the support of your husband and sister, and that you have MDC for support. I, too, feel a weight in seeing children around me being weaned ahead of their time, and I find it crucial to surround myself with those who are supportive of me as I support my son in making these important transitions on his own. I'm glad they get you through the tough moments!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mother_sunshine*







T

Has anyone heard from MamaAllNatural lately? She hasn't been here in a while and I'm starting to worry about her.

I was a little worried about her, too!
Thanks, Sustainer, for letting us know about her travel post!


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Me, too! I am glad to know where she is. If we don't keep tabs on eachother, who will??


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Thanks Alice


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Hi ladies. I'm back from my vacation and I just wanted to check in.









It looks like you've had a lot of great discussion while I was away. I agree, this thread is wonderful.
















T Updates if anyone cares :LOL I got my first PP AF while on vacation. I guess I have to be nursing three little ones to keep AF away. I stopped expressing milk that I donate and just stuck to nursing my own two while I was away and that was it for me.









My 3 1/2 yo is nursing just as much as ever and my 12 mo is nursing a bit less as he prefers to run all around and eat amazingly huge amounts of real food now.







He still nurses a lot for comfort though and I see him nursing at least a couple more years.







Dd I can see nursing for a couple more decades.







They both still nurse once or twice at night.

So, those are my updates. Oh that and my new neice and nephew are beautiful. My sister will be doing CLW w/her dd.







Sadly, my SIL either hides in the next room to nurse or covers herself up to her chin with a huge blanket. She also waits as long as she possibly can to nurse. It was kind of sad actually. I do hope all of my whipping out the boob had a good influence on her though. She seemed to feed him more frequently the longer I was there.







Anyway, sorry for all the rambling ladies. Obviously I missed you.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Welcome back MAN!







Whatta bummer re: PPAF. You'd hope for longer than that with tandem nursing, wouldn't you? But hey- one year is still 12 months off!









Very cool that your sis is going to CLW. I hope you were a good influence on SIL. There has been times where I felt "vibes" and if I wasn't an "I'm gonna nurse right here whether you like it or not" type Lactivist gal with over 36 months of nursing under my belt, I would probably hide too. I just do it anyway and no one has ever had the stupidity so say anything (not in my hearing or to anyone who would tell me anyway).


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

ditto the welcome back! any stories?

My almost 3 1/2 year old's appetite for mama's milk sounds like your 3 1/2 year old's. Things have slowed way down compared to a year ago but then again I think he was nursing more a year ago than when he was one year old.









As I nursed DS to sleep this afternoon I began to wonder how it would ever happen otherwise. DS has only fallen asleep to nap a handful of times without nursing and those are always when we are driving somewhere after he has nursed before we loaded up to go..... so... out of curiosity, of all you women out there who nursed your little ones to sleep for naps and bedtime, what was the transition to falling asleep without the breast like? Did this happen at the same time as when they weaned themselves or earlier?


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Welcome back Mama All Natural!!








Glad you had a good visit with family!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
out of curiosity, of all you women out there who nursed your little ones to sleep for naps and bedtime, what was the transition to falling asleep without the breast like? Did this happen at the same time as when they weaned themselves or earlier?

Dd nursed to sleep for every nap (unless she fell asleep in the car on a rare occasion) until she gave up naps at 2.5yrs. She kept nursing at bedtime until she weaned, as that was the last session to go. But she stopped nursing to sleep when she was around 6, and even then she still sometimes chose to nurse to sleep. It was a very very slow process.


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## mom2threenurslings (Jul 16, 2002)

I continue to nurse my 2 year old to sleep.

My 2 sons stopped nursing to sleep at about the same time. Alex was probably about 4 and Zachary 2.5. It was a very gradual process.

I went from laying down to nurse them to sleep (when I was tandem nursing and pregnant) to sitting up to nurse them to sleep (when I was triandem nursing). I'd usually have the baby in the sling on my back while tandem nursing the boys, sitting on the end of their bed. They'd fall asleep and I'd wriggle them into their beds (which are next to each other, against each other, making one big bed). Then it evolved to de-latching them when they were almost asleep and rolling them over into their beds (they'd crawl to their pillows). Then it became nursing them until they were sleepy, then they'd crawl into their beds. Eventually we got to the point where I could nurse them downstairs and they'd walk themselves upstairs and put themselves to bed, if needed. This process took around 7-9 months.

Zachary continues to nurse and Alexander self-weaned on his fifth birthday.

Zachary says he'll wean when he's 7.

Haley says she'll wean when she has her own babies.


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Ben nurses to sleep at night. The last time Ellie fully nursed to sleep was the night Ben was born (she was a month shy of 5 and my water actually broke after she fell asleep). Around 4, she sometimes nursed for several minutes at bedtime, but not fully to sleep. She nursed upon waking and other times during the day. Ben also nurses upon waking unless he and Ellie wake up at the same time and they get up together to play









I agree with Michelle, that it is a slow process. Ben says he is never going to wean and Ellie now says she will wean when she is 20 :LOL

I think she would like to nurse when she wakes up...but doesn't always because we may not wake up at the same time or she just cuddles in the morning. I think that is the nursing she enjoyed the most.


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## Gab'sfamily2004 (Feb 25, 2004)

My son is 17 months going to 18 soon and I just weaned him, with almost NO crying involved!!!!. It took a while of trying the Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution. I loved nursing, except when ds would wake up 10+ at night, that was tough. He kept waking up atleast 3 times at night until I weaned him cold turkey. Now, you might think that cold turkey involved crying?, no, it didn't. He was already down to 2 nursing short sessions during the day and everytime he woke up at night, so I pretty much nursed him whenever he wanted to. I tried to be very repectful of his needs of comfort and never made him feel nursing was bothering me, although it was hard sometimes, at night it is.
well, this day, almost a week ago, I just said it wasenough of waking up so much at night, and him not eating as good, and just running to mama to breastfeed when he was bored. Anyway, that night I said "mommy can't breastfeed anymore" and held him, rocked him and sang to him until he fell asleep one hour after whinning and sobbing. I thought the next day was going to be worse, but it wasn't, he just took the bottle (he wouldn't do that before) let me rock him for 10 minutes, and then showed me he didn't want to sleep in my arms, but in his bed, and it is like this almost a week after I weaned him for good.
I am sure he was ready for weaning, I guess he gave me cues I didn't see before: he would breastfeed, roll over and come back for the breast, like he didn't really want to bf, but the boobie was available, he would bite me lots sometimes, he pushed me away occasionally when I bf him, etc.
I never thought it was going to be this easy, really,and now he sleeps THROUGH THE NIGHT, eats way better, is more independant and even likes to play with daddy more than before! uh, and has a longer nap, too.
I just share this in case someone is wondering if baby is ready to wean, I would say they give cues, we just have to see them and always wean with love, don't leave baby crying it out, respect your baby and his/her needs
Now everything is perfect except sore breasts, are they ever sore! ouch!!!!, but that's another thread
Cheers!!!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Um, Gab'sfamily2004, do you know this is a Child Led Weaning thread? your post belongs somewhere else. We don't believe that children child-led-wean the way you described. You weaned him.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Welcome back MamaAllNatural! I missed you


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I still nurse ds to sleep for naps and for bedtime. Sometimes at bedtime he will nurse and then lie in his bed-zone and drift off to sleep, but this is very very rare!

I have found that nursing will extend his naps to 3 hours!!! Awesome for me! And I read a lot or nap myself


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hummingbear*
out of curiosity, of all you women out there who nursed your little ones to sleep for naps and bedtime, what was the transition to falling asleep without the breast like? Did this happen at the same time as when they weaned themselves or earlier?

When DS was around 2 or so, he started taking a HUGE LONG time to nurse to sleep (like an hour or more). I admit, I was becoming frustrated about this especially given that he was still up several times a night to nurse. I gradually started to ease the way for having him go to sleep without nursing by singing to him while I nursed and then eventually taking him off the breast for the last few rousing renditions of Bah Bah Black Sheep. Eventually, I started placing him in his bed after nursing (20 minutes or so) while I sang him tol sleep. He fell asleep much more quickly this way, and since he was ammenable to making the change, it went really well. Well, after a few weeks of this, DS decided this was no longer working for him. He'd become sick with a cold and it was clear that he wanted to nurse to sleep, that not nursing to sleep was stressful sooooo... we went back to nursing to sleep, and because it was clear he wasn't ready, I just decided to ease up on my frustrations and embrace the fact that he'll only be this little once., etc. No worries.

Flashforward to 2 1/2: After several months of having gone back to nursing to sleep, DS up and decides one night that he wishes to make a change, nurses for ten or so minutes, hops off my lap and into bed. He then asks for me to sing BAH BAH a couple of times and then (!!!!!), _tells me to leave the room, that he's ready to go to sleep now._







You know what? I was actually sad and dissappointed, I had rather gotten used to our return to NTS. *sigh* The irony.

As it turns out, DS gave up naps shorty after that and we went back to nursing to sleep for awhile--a couple of months. And then again, one night he hops off my lap, jumps into bed and again, tells me to leave ("Go out to kitchen") when he's had enough of my singing.







Anyway, anymore he nurses for like 5 seconds each breast, before jumping into bed. Nighttime is just so VERY DIFFERENT than it once was. In the end, it was HIM who made the call and I couldn't be happier about it. Up until a few weeks ago, we were down to just that few seconds of nursing in the eve but he's been rather "growth spurty" lately and has been asking during the day more and has occasionally been up at night to nurse. He's 3 and 9 months.

*sigh* It's bittersweet really. In some ways, bedtime is quick, easy and even fun--before bedtime talks can be so very warm and fuzzy, but I do very much miss those last moments of holding him in the day, snoring, drool sliding down my stomach into my pants. I miss taking him off the breast and just looking at him in my arms, sleeping soundly, peacefully. Now, I've made a habit of reentering DS's room after he's fallen off to sleep. I just MUST see him sleeping every day. I sit by his bed, kiss his head, his fingers and nuzzle his cheek. *sigh* I get mushy just thinking about it! Can't wait until later tonight when I can do just that!

Sorry for the novel. I haven't posted to thread in ages! I'm so glad it's here.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Question for those mommas who didn't night wean:
At what age did your child go 4-5 hours consistently?

I would really like that chunk o sleep, but don't have a reason to night wean and so am avoiding it at this point. I night weaned DD (to 4-5 hours) at 24-25 months. DS is now 3. I was thinking I might try something at 4 if he is still doing the every 1-2 hours through the night thing (esp if he is still wanting to nurse 20+minutes each time!).

So, is there hope for me still (that he will get up to 4-5 hours in the next year)?


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Oh, regarding the nursing to sleep.

Both my kids nursed to sleep for naps until they gave them up.

DD nursed to sleep basically nightly until 4, then sporadically for the next couple months.

DS still nurses to sleep most nights. He actually could have DH put him to sleep when he was younger (mostly because that was DDs special nursing time). Now that he is the only nursling, though, he goes to sleep nursing most nights. There are many more exceptions with him than there every were w/DD, though.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2threenurslings*
Then it became nursing them until they were sleepy, then they'd crawl into their beds. Eventually we got to the point where I could nurse them downstairs and they'd walk themselves upstairs and put themselves to bed, if needed

This is where my 3 1/2 yo is. It's just kind of happened gradually. I can't always lay there and nurse her for 20 min. straight with a baby who is also demanding my time and running around getting into things. She did it mostly on her own but also sometimes I'd say, "Ok, we can nurse for a few minutes and then I have to go do the dishes (or whatever)." She does nurse once at night still.

*Tired*, my 3.5 started going 4-5 hour stretches closer to 3 yo. When I had the baby she was 2.5 and I remember her waking up to nurse more often than him. :LOL He's 12 months now and sometimes goes 6 hours, sometimes only 2 or 3.

Thanks for all the Welcome Backs.







It is good to be back. You guys are so wonderful.

Oh, and *Gab'sfamily*, I agree, your post really doesn't belong on a child led weaning thread. All of the mamas here believe that the child should wean when they are truly ready. Also, please be aware that the World Health Organization recommends a *minimum* of 2 years of breastfeeding before weaning.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Another note regarding nursing to sleep, my 3 yo doesn't take naps usually but if she does she almost always nurses to sleep. It's probably because she only takes a nap if she's very, very tired so it doesn't take much nursing for her to fall asleep.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom4tot*
Ben says he's never going to wean and Ellie now says she will wean when she's 20









Am I the only one who always wishes I could meet these sweet little nurslings? :LOL Of course I wish I could meet all the mamas too.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Quote:

Oh, and Gab'sfamily, I agree, your post really doesn't belong on a child led weaning thread. All of the mamas here believe that the child should wean when they are truly ready. Also, please be aware that the World Health Organization recommends a minimum of 2 years of breastfeeding before weaning.
...and it's not too late to relactate if you want to continue breastfeeding, Gab'sfamily!

The health benefits of long-term breastfeeding are incredible for both you and your baby. A child's immunity doesn't fully mature until they are between 4 and 7 years old (closer to 7, I think) which is why it is natural for children to nurse well into their toddler and/or preschool years and beyond. Breastmilk is loaded with immunities for your child, keeping him healthy; breastfed babies rarely get sick. This is especially great for children who go to school early, where illnesses can be shared.

For Mom, breastfeeding can help to reduce the chance of breast cancer and osteoporosis. If fills your body with prolactin, which relaxes you - not just great for mothering kiddos, but also for reducing stress, which can be toxic.

Anyway, from what you put in your post, it sounds like your dc could have continued nursing, but was dissuaded by you. I don't think that a compliant child always equals a ready child. Maybe he wasn't really ready to wean, but complied to your weaning him bc of his nature.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I definitely think before 2 is too early. My dd weaned at 20 months and I was sad (and a tiny bit relieved because I was preggers again and had that nails on the chalkboard feeling that I'm sure would have let up if she had hung on a little longer). I do think she weaned earlier than she would have if we wouldn't have had 5 hour separations a few days a week when I was working, and the pregnancy may have affected my milk supply, I dunno.

Ds is 16mo and still nurses to sleep/nap 90% of the time. The exception is in the car or if he just feels particularly cuddly with dh.







I will be surprised if he weans before three, so I may yet tandem nurse if dh is willing to TTC next summer like I'm hoping.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Ok, another first for us last night. After DS did his ten second nursing and jumped into bed, I sang him a song or two and then he said, "I want Daddy to tuck me in and stay with me while I go to sleep."









I'm thinking it might just be like momof3nurslings mentioned about nursing DS in the living room and then sending him off to bed... with Daddy... man, how the times are a changin' 'round here. *sigh*

Someone asked about the first 4-5 hour stretch. Um, it really went back and forth with us. Slept upwards of 10 hours at 6-9 months (didn't know how good I had it and took it for granted like no other!), and then anywhere from 2 to 8 hour stretches then on until 2 1/2. Illness, teething... until all those teeth were in there was rarely sleeping through the night, and at best one to two wake ups. Typically three or four. Once all those were in however, everything changed, practically overnight.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
Question for those mommas who didn't night wean:
At what age did your child go 4-5 hours consistently?

Oh I know the one to two hour thing all so well. DS started his first 4 hour interval at 26 months. But it varied between 3 and 4 hours on an irregular basis for at leasat 6 months after that. If all was well, he became more consistent with one 3 or 4 hour interval somewhere between 32 and 38 months; however this was accompanied by successively shorter intervals from then until morning (becoming shorter than 1 hour). Now at 39 months he will have two 4 hour intervals pretty regularly. I did start releasing him from my breast after about a 10 minutes latch during night nursing (a loose practice of what Elizabeth Pantley outlines in her book The No Cry Sleep Solution). I found that less than this was not tolerated by him and more than this he was committed to a long term latch. This was his only "practice" at falling alseep when still not fully asleep. This did not work when first nursing to sleep. Though I do think that doing this eventually helped him link two two hour intervals into a four hour one.

Good Luck and Sweet Dreams to you.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just an update:

DS went from 11pm-2:30am last night







The night before I got up at 4am and couldn't get back to sleep so I was exhausted!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Let's see, ds nursed to sleep for naps as long as he took them. He was probably about 4 when he started to roll over (after nursing) and go to sleep at bedtime. I must say, I am going to have trouble going to sleep when he weans! We co-sleep and if I get up again after ds nurses and falls asleep, I have a hard time going to sleep - lol!

I don't remember if we ever got to the 4 or 5 hours stretch of sleep. I was sleep-deprived for so long, and then suddenly ds started sleeping through the night at 2.5!


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Thursday night, BeanBean woke up twice to nurse; he did it Friday night, too.







It's the first time in a while, but I guess he's not entirely finished night nursing, or else now that he's potty learned and waking up at night (he won't pee in his sleep) he needs some nursies to get back to sleep.

Both of my kids slept for four hours very early on; BooBah has been doing it for at least a month, and BeanBean first did in the NICU; he was only there for a week, so it must have been around then. I think it's because I'm one of those women with an overwhelming storage capacity. When my kids nurse, they _fill up_ for a while. In fact, BeanBean only nursed every 3 hours or so from the beginning, except for growth spurts. Since BooBah doesn't have to work to bring more milk in (her brother does that) she doesn't have to nurse more frequently when she has growth spurts, she just drinks more and BeanBean does the work of bringing more in. She spent her first night of life on the breast except for a grand total of about 35 minutes (not consecutive) when I went to the bathroom and got up and such. Her first few days she nursed more often, but once the milk came in it was every 3 or 4 hours.

Every time I nurse my BeanBean, I wonder how people can wean children his age. He's still such a little person, and he's so happy with his nursies. I can't imagine trying it... I mean, asking him to wait for a few minutes is a huge tragedy, more often than not. I can't imagine telling him he couldn't nurse at all, or trying to distract him. It just doesn't seem logical or reasonable to me. Of course, I may be able to understand it when he's a bit older (I doubt it), but right now I just can't see the point. I'm 100% certain that any attempt to wean would be much more stressful for the entire family than letting him nurse.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Hi Mamas, I need some support. Maybe that's not even the right word. I have an acquaintance that just weaned her 1 year old and is now worried that the baby doesn't eat enough. It just makes me so sad. My little one is almost 5 and those night time nursings are still soooo important to him. And I know I'm still producing milk (not only can I tell, but he tells me!). Even though this thread has not seen much activity lately, I'm really glad its here!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

My little guy is about the same age and I just cannot imagine weaning him.







The first year I feel is just getting started still. Poor little baby.

If the mom is concerned about his eating what do you think she'd say if you reminded her that it might be "safest" to start nursing him again. Is she against formula? Maybe you could suggest she nurse him again so he doesn't have to get on formula? Just an idea.

For me it is such a comfort to know that, no matter what, at least they'll have breastmilk. It's the only thing they can have when they're sick. My first weaned really young and it scared me to not have that option. It also made me sad. I can't imagine doing it purposely.

Does she know you're nursing your 5 yo? Would she be open to hearing the WHO recommendation?

That must be sad to see.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

That's hard. You want so badly for them to understand how important it is to continue, but you don't want to be too pushy. I just had a friend wean her 1 year old too and I felt so helpless. I encouraged her by emailing her the WHO recommendations and a supportive link, and told her that we went the childled route and it was worth the World. But she hasn't talked about it since.









She's the mother, there isn't much we can do except share our experience and bf philosophy, let her know that it is humanly normal and natural to keep nursing, and hope she takes the advice for the good of her child. Unfortunately too many people are caught up in "what will people think" or "that's not what everyone else does" or "I've done enough" and it all overshadows the child's needs and wants...


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
Hi Mamas, I need some support. Maybe that's not even the right word. I have an acquaintance that just weaned her 1 year old and is now worried that the baby doesn't eat enough. It just makes me so sad. My little one is almost 5 and those night time nursings are still soooo important to him. And I know I'm still producing milk (not only can I tell, but he tells me!). Even though this thread has not seen much activity lately, I'm really glad its here!









and ditto to what MAN and Michelle said.









It is discouraging though, isn't it? Chin up!


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

also ditto MAN and Michelle!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

2

That is so hard, and something I have been faced with OVER and OVER.

I would consider suggeting relactation ONCE and then never mentioning it again. If she complains about DCs eating habits, etc, just try (in your mind) to consider helping her to solve the problem not thinking about the cause of that problem.

I remember when DD was not yet two having a friend who's son only ate pretzels & marshmellows for a couple weeks. Don't get me started on "how did the kid think that was food?" but it made me so releaved and happy to know that if DD (and then DS) didn't eat *anything* they were still getting exactly what they needed from nursing.


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

Yup! bc, you know what, TiredX2? My ds lives on pretzels and breastmilk! :LOL

(and I totally ditto your post, as well. I guess I'm being lazy today, just dittoing everyone else...)


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Ditto for me too









That is really hard, though. A friend/ neighbor just weaned her 1 y/o so she could get pregnant. She got pregnant the following month or two and is now convinced it was the weaning that did it.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Thanks Mamas.







I came soooo close to mentioning that she could start nursing again, but she's pretty knowledgeable and was/is considering applying as a LLL leader, so I bit my tongue. Back when I was attending LLL, there were a few mamas that cut 'em off right at the one year mark (the babies, not the boobs







).


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

There is a woman in my town who would like her baby to receive breastmilk and because of her own medical condition she is unable to provide it. I know there are sources to pay for breastmilk but the cost is quite limiting to her.

So I thought I would ask if anyone out there with a relatively young nursling would consider donating milk or if anyone has more milk than they could use stored up (I thought I read a thread recently about too much stored milk).


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I'd love to help, but I have no freezer at all.














Loads of milk, though, and a very young nursling. Good luck.


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## mother_sunshine (Nov 25, 2001)

Mamas, a fresh new thread has been posted. Hope you all can make it.









http://www.mothering.com/discussions...37018&posted=1


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