# QUESTION: Fused Foreskin on my 2 1/2 year old



## Jaydens_mom

Hey there,
I have a 2 1/2 year old boy whom was circumsised at birth. I cared for it and cleaned it properly, as directed by my doctor.
However, it appears that the foreskin is not pulled all the way off the head of the penis. Its attached itself to the "fold", the part just before it rolls under.. it doesn't seem to want to budge; although i haven't YANKED on it in fear of hurting him.
It looks as if it will never pull apart; and frankly im scared.
It bothers me and my partner (not his father) insists that it is only 1/2 circumsised or "deformed"..
I went back to his doctor ( who preformed the circumsision) and he insisted that who ever is telling me it was done wrong is lying to me, and that it is done properly and looks perfect.
I am still not satisfied though.
I don't want him growing up hating part of his body and being afraid to get intimate with his partners.

Is this normal for little boys to have? If so when will it unfuse itself and fully show the head of the penis?


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## coloradoalice

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Hey there,
I have a 2 1/2 year old boy whom was circumsised at birth. I cared for it and cleaned it properly, as directed by my doctor.
However, it appears that the foreskin is not pulled all the way off the head of the penis. Its attached itself to the "fold", the part just before it rolls under.. it doesn't seem to want to budge; although i haven't YANKED on it in fear of hurting him.
It looks as if it will never pull apart; and frankly im scared.
It bothers me and my partner (not his father) insists that it is only 1/2 circumsised or "deformed"..
I went back to his doctor ( who preformed the circumsision) and he insisted that who ever is telling me it was done wrong is lying to me, and that it is done properly and looks perfect.
I am still not satisfied though.
I don't want him growing up hating part of his body and being afraid to get intimate with his partners.

Is this normal for little boys to have? If so when will it unfuse itself and fully show the head of the penis?

You should really take this question to the Case Against Circumcision forum. With the understanding that Mothering does not advise or promote infant circumcision.

Welcome to MDC!!


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## LandonsMom

I'm not sure if this is the same, but I believe my son has the same issue. He was circumcised (regretably) and through out this last year (hes 14 months), whats left of the foreskin has slowly readheared itself back onto the head of his penis. I dont do well baby visits, so i dont have an official medical opinion on this, but I believe his body was trying to 'heal' itself by readhearing the foreskin, taking it back to a more natural state.. So currently, i am leaving it alone to become retractable on its own, as I believe it will, similar to an uncircumcised penis.

Hope that helps, keep in touch if you want, you're the only other person i know who's son has this kind of circumstance. I'm curious to know if it would become fully retractable on its own like a normal penis.


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## rozzie'sma

It sounds like your son has a loose circ, in an intact boy the foreskin is attached to the glans, therefor any left over skin would also re-attach. As he gets older it should seperate on his own. Please do not retract him, you could cause adhesions and scarring of his penis. It is fine, as far as when he will retract any time between now and puberty is normal.


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## Still_Learning

Why not take him to a urologist just to have it looked at?


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## laohaire

Definitely leave it alone, the fact that this has happened is GOOD news and is a sign of partial healing. It will loosen up later - when it SHOULD. Don't pull at it, it's not meant to be loose at his age any more than our fingernails are meant to be able to lift off our fingers.


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Still_Learning*
Why not take him to a urologist just to have it looked at?

Because she's Canadian and needs a refferal from her family physician before going to see one.


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## Joannarachel

Sounds like your little guy got lucky and didn't lose all of his foreskin. Leave well enough alone and count your blessings.


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## JBaxter

This happened to my DS 2 also. Dont pull it back. When he is in the bath clean it really well with a wash cloth but dont tug on it. It will unadhere at some point. If he is anything like my 2 1/2 yr old his penis is a favorite play item yanking twisting and pulling all the time. Just keep it clean and DONT let a doc yank it loose. A ped did that to my DS2 once and NEVER again. I wish I knew then what I know now about circs. FYI DS2 is now 11 and has no problems.


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## Lula's Mom

You may or may not know this, but if your son was intact, his foreskin would still be naturally fused to the head of his penis (the glans). It would not be retractable at his age. This readherance to the glans is his body's way of trying to heal the wound created by the circumcision. Actually this is quite common nowadays. Doctors tend to do looser circumcisions than they used to do, because tight circumcisions take all of the foreskin and cause painful erections, curvature of the penis, hair on the shaft, and even tears and bleeding if extremely tight. However, this change to looser circumcisions has led to new problems, like these adhesions you see on your boy. If ripped back repeatedly (as some doctors will advise) this leads to more scarring and pain, on top of the original circumcision.

I agree with PPs; _unless it is the scar line which has readhered,_ leave it alone. Read this link: http://www.cirp.org/news/ponsky2/ Most adhesions of this type will resolve in their own time.

Please visit the Case Against Circumcision forum to learn more.


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## Lula's Mom

Oh, the other site mentions skin bridges. In case you don't know what those are, they are another complication of circumcision. *Warning, medical photos of adult penises.*Here's what they look like.

I'll bet "they" never told you about this stuff, did they?


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## Jaydens_mom

Yes my son does infact have a LOOSE circumcision..it almost looks like it wasn't circumcised at all because the skin still covers most of the head.

It's just that when we pull the skin back as far as it will go naturally it looks as if it was actually sewn to the base of the head.. im not sure exactly what fusing is supposed to look like... but this looks like it will never pull away









Maybe it's how it is supposed to look, but any other circumcised penis' i have seen have Never looked like this. Even my step-son when he was 2 had a clearly circumcised penis, although he was circumcised by a different doctor. There was no fusion... the skin was not covering the head whatsoever.

It just really worries me, even my mother insists it was done wrong because my brothers never looked like this...

I am taking him to a pediatrician on Monday and she is going to give me a second opinion and perhaps even reffer me to a urologist..

I am really hoping that it does pull apart and reveal the entire head eventually. I really don't want to have to get him re-circumcised.. it'd break my heart.


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## Jaydens_mom

This is the only pic in the link that Lula's Mom posted that resembles what my sons penis looks like...

http://www.circumstitions.com/Restri...ed/brij15f.jpg

however his is obviously much smaller lol, And the fusing is much more cleaner all the way around the base of the head JUST before it curves under ( the curving under is not visable due to the fusing). My sons is so perfectly attached to the head it almost looks like it was stiched and healed there.


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## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
Oh, the other site mentions skin bridges. In case you don't know what those are, they are another complication of circumcision. *Warning, medical photos of adult penises.*Here's what they look like.

*ll bet "they" never told you about this stuff, did they?*

It is true. I thought my doctor was so great until i had my son. There is so much he has neglected to tell me about circumcisions.. such as this fusing. I expected it to look circumcised.. much like any other circumcised male, i expected the head to be fully visable... i did not expect this "deformed" look.


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## Lula's Mom

I want to preface this by saying I really feel for you. I want to offer you a







because I know you are worried about your son, you care about him and you want to do what's best for him. That said... it's hard to figure out how to answer you without upsetting you. The thing is, I can see that you were not informed about circumcision before it was performed on your son. And it's a crime that doctors perform it without telling parents the truth about it, really. There is _no_ medical benefit to circumcision. It's cosmetic surgery. If I'm not mistaken only about 12% of Canadian boys are circumcised at birth.

Quote:

Maybe it's how it is supposed to look, but any other circumcised penis' i have seen have Never looked like this. Even my step-son when he was 2 had a clearly circumcised penis, although he was circumcised by a different doctor. There was no fusion... the skin was not covering the head whatsoever.

It just really worries me, even my mother insists it was done wrong because my brothers never looked like this...
How to say this delicately... how it's _supposed_ to look is the way he was born. A circumcised penis _doesn't_ look the way it's supposed to. It's been altered, it's had its covering taken off. Baby penises are very very small, and circumcisers are doing guesswork when they perform this surgery. There is no way to tell how much skin to take off in order to produce the desired cosmetic effect. Therefore, a boy (man) may end up with very little moveable skin, or a bit more, depending on the circumcision method and/or the doctor's preference.

It wasn't done "wrong" (although no routine infant circumcision is right!) The surgery was performed, and your son is experiencing one of the common complications. His body is trying to fix what was done to him.

Quote:

It's just that when we pull the skin back as far as it will go naturally it looks as if it was actually sewn to the base of the head.. im not sure exactly what fusing is supposed to look like... but this looks like it will never pull away....

I am really hoping that it does pull apart and reveal the entire head eventually. I really don't want to have to get him re-circumcised.. it'd break my heart.
Yes, that's what fusing, or adhesions, look like. Your son has it all the way around his glans. I sincerely hope it will detach on its own, as it would in an intact boy. Did you take a look at the first link I posted, where it talked about the fusing breaking up on its own in a majority of these cases? You need to wait and see on this, and it may be years. If he enters puberty and there has been no change, there are still other options besides surgery.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not get him recircumcised! Enough damage has been done. He does not need to lose what little foreskin he has left. There is a MDC member who posts in the Case Against Circumcision forum. He was recircumcised as a child and will tell you how it has left him with a basically nonfunctioning penis.

Quote:

I am taking him to a pediatrician on Monday and she is going to give me a second opinion and perhaps even reffer me to a urologist..
I urge you to visit the Case Against Circumcision forum and read, read read. You need to do the research that wasn't done before. You need to understand all about circumcision and adhesions and the function of the foreskin, so that you can understand why you need to not do anything drastic right now. Ask any question that comes into your head- we will be there and glad to answer.


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## Lula's Mom

More links on adhesions

http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/...il.cfm?id=3420

Quote:

Q:My son was circumcised and is now 10 months old. He has some skin stuck to his penis which the doctor says is an adhesion. My doctor said to leave it alone and it will go away as he gets older. A friend of mine had the same problem with her little baby boy and the doctor cut the adhesion. What should I do?

A: We would recommend following your doctor's opinion. Penile adhesions occur frequently after circumcision. Some physicians advocate manual lysis of the adhesions. This procedure can be painful and traumatic. Penile adhesions are normal in uncircumcised boys and normally resolve without treatment.
A recent study in the Journal of Urology followed 254 circumcised boys to see what happened to their penile adhesions. Only seven patients had been treated for adhesions. Despite this, the prevalence of adhesions decreased dramatically with age to:

71% of boys age ‹12 months
28% of boys ages 1-5 years old
8% of boys ages 5-9
2% ages 9-18

We agree with the conclusions of this study. Penile adhesions after circumcision normally resolve without treatment.
http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_d...NC&sub_cat=474

Quote:

Q. My circumcised 2-year-old son has been having a problem with penile adhesion for over a year. Some doctors tell me to pull the excess skin back on a regular basis, and others tell me not to do it at all. Is this a common problem in little boys? Does he need another circumcision?

A. Sometimes after a routine newborn circumcision, excess foreskin remains. Since newborn circumcision is not medically necessary, it's certainly better to leave a little extra than to take off too much and damage the child's penis.

Adhesions between the glans and foreskin are normal in infants and, by age 1 only half of the boys have retractable foreskin. Never try to forcibly strip the foreskin back because that's unnecessarily painful and may cause a raw surface and subsequent scarring. Any small, whitish lumps beneath the foreskin only represent normal skin shedding and need not be removed.

By the time he's 4 the adhesions should release on their own, and he can be taught to retract any remaining foreskin while bathing.

So, it's a common occurrence in little boys for adhesions to develop under any remaining foreskin, although it's rarely a problem and practically never requires a repeat circumcision.
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weekl...l_adhesion.htm

Quote:

[Q. My infant son is now 17 days old. He was circumcised before leaving the hospital. By now, it has totally healed. While bathing him we noticed about 75% of the skin immediately next to the glans has healed to the edge of the glans. My sister-in-law (an RN) said we were supposed to "pull" the skin of the shaft down away from the glans during the healing process. However, our pediatrician said the circumcision was fine - just leave it alone. Is this normal? Should we attempt to pull the skin away from the glans or will it separate on it's own? Marshall, Harrisburg, NC

A. It isn't really normal, but is a common complication after a circumcision.

In a situation like this, penile adhesions form when the skin on the shaft of the penis attaches itself to the glans or head of the penis.
In extreme cases, it can look like the child was never even circumcised, leading parents to believe that the child had a 'bad circumcision.'
Adhesions are especially common in children who have a 'hidden penis,' in which the whole penis seems to disappear inside a large fat pad around their penis.

If the skin is attached only on the very base of the glans, then your child has a very mild case of penile adhesions and you can likely just leave it alone. It should eventually separate, especially once your child becomes older, and anyway, forcing it apart would be painful. Eventually, you may notice a white substance (smegma) coming out and forcing these adhesions apart on their own. If this happens, you can usually try to gently separate the adhesions and apply vaseline to the irritated area that has separated so that it doesn't become reattached.

Quote:

Treatment for Penile Adhesions
If a child's penile adhesions don't go away on their own or if a parent wants to treat a child with extensive adhesions, one study recently has shown that applying a prescription steroid cream to the area three times a day for three weeks resulted in clearing the adhesions in almost 80 percent of infants. This makes sense when you consider that uncircumcised children that have a phimosis, in which their foreskin doesn't retract, are often successfully treated with topical steroid creams.
Some children with extensive adhesions do require surgery as treatment.
http://www.henryfordhealth.org/19160.cfm

Quote:

Q. I have a son who just turned 7. When he was born he was supposed to have been circumcised. They used a plasi-bell method. After it was done, he still had excess skin and they reassured us he would grow into it.

At 18 months they held him down, and pulled the skin back because it was still attached to the rim around the head of his penis. It was a horrible thing to do to a child.

Within a few weeks it was already reattached to the head again. This time they left it and told me that I might consider taking him to a urologist to have him re-circumcised although they felt sure that as he grew the skin would detach itself.

His penis, honestly, is still about the same size as it was when he was born. One doctor told me that it wasnt growing because the skin attached to the head was holding it back. Then another told me that its nothing to be concerned about and that he would go through a growth spurt and the skin would detach itself. That sounds very painful. I would like to know:

Will the skin detach itself with time or should I have him re-circumcised?
Is this the reason his penis doesnt seem to grow or will it hit a normal growth spurt and catch up to the rest of his body? He is very tall (45) but very thin (60 pounds).
I am confused and want to make the right decision for him. He has a younger brother and is aware of the differences of size and shape and is bothered by it. Thank you. Vanessa

Dear Vanessa,
Thanks for your questions and concerns. My comments are based on your child having a normal penis except for the foreskin. The foreskin will almost always detach itself in time as a boy develops. It should not be forcibly retracted.

This may lead to scarred adhesions that will not detach without surgery. Penile growth is not usually influenced by adhesion of the foreskin to the glans penis. A fat pad over the pubis is usually seen in heavy children, which give the appearance of a shorter penis. A very rare condition called micropenis is usually evident at birth and is treated with testosterone supplementation.


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## Jaydens_mom

I read a fair amount of posts in the Case against circumcision thread, and I am not really that keen about ever going back in there.
My son was circumcised and I prefer not to read a million and one posts on why I made "the wrong" choice.
I refuse to re-post this thread in there, because i know i will be told that circumcision is wrong and that i ruined my son.
He is perfect. I have no regrets.


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## Jaydens_mom

Thank you for your responses they were very helpfull. At first I thought maybe it was just a faulty circumcision and that his original doctor was just trying to cover his butt by saying that it was done right and that everyone is lying to me.
I will still be taking him into the pediatricians monday, but if she suggests pulling the skin away from the head, i will stop her in her tracks.
All i can do is wait i guess, and hopefully it will detach itself fully and be how i EXPECTED it to be.


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## Lula's Mom

Sweetie, circumcision _is_ wrong. It's the painful removal of a healthy body part from a tiny, brand-new person who did not consent to the procedure. Why didn't you think he was perfect when he was born? He was.

I am not going to tell you that _you_ ruined him. While you, as his parent, bear the ultimate responsibility for the choice, it is largely the fault of medical professionals if parents are not informed and do not fully understand what circumcision is and does. You live in Canada! Circumcision is not widely performed there anymore. That means most doctors there, unlike in the States, are informed about circumcision and the way it harms people. Your doctor willfully hid the truth from you. You should be *angry!!*

I hope you will reconsider your statement that you have "no regrets". What that doctor did to your baby, without fully informing you, will impact him the rest of his life. He has lost the most sensitive and sexually fulfilling part of his penis. It is OK to admit that you did not know everything about circumcision before you consented to it for your son.

We have many, many mamas here who are just like you- *they did not know.* But once they did know, they turned their regret and sadness into action. They now spend their energy teaching friends and family why circumcision is wrong and harmful, so they will not make the same mistake. Please go back to the Case Against Circumcision forum and read the thread at the top: 'Mamas who regret circumcising their sons.' The overwhelming sentiment there is "When you know better, you do better".

I want to help you understand all of this so that if you ever have another little boy, you will leave him intact.







And you can tell others of your experiencce, so that they may leave their sons intact too.


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## Jaydens_mom

I am not altering my opinion of circumcision. I was NOT informed of the fusing process... however i had full knowledge about loss of sensitivity and etc.. as my cousin and i both had our children in the same month and discussed this (his son is uncut). Sure maybe when he is having sex it will not feel as great as it might for an uncircumcised male, but having always being circumcised how is he to know the difference..


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## Pandora114

Lemme guess it was Dr. Loveless that did the procedure right?

Wouldn't suprise me that he wouldnt tell you about the complications of the surgery. Hell he never even told me about the side effects of half the drugs he perscribed me over the two years I was his patient.

I wound up in EPS because of some psych med he encouraged me to try...


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## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pandora114*
Lemme guess it was Dr. Loveless that did the procedure right?

Wouldn't suprise me that he wouldnt tell you about the complications of the surgery. Hell he never even told me about the side effects of half the drugs he perscribed me over the two years I was his patient.

I wound up in EPS because of some psych med he encouraged me to try...

I have NOOOO idea who you are talking about :| My son was born in parry sound ontario... not in Hamilton if that makes a difference. In parry sound we only have one circumcision doctor and that would have been my family doctor who delivered my son.


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## Lula's Mom

Oh my God. I have been laboring under the assumption that you were just uninformed, as so many parents are. Why did you do it?


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## sadkitty

Why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why?









This thread is so sad



































.

I was under the impression that Canada was a safe haven for foreskins.


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## sophmama

umm... a lot was posted in the mean time of when I was typing the original post - editing because it no longer applies.

Welcome to MDC anyways!


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I have NOOOO idea who you are talking about :| My son was born in parry sound ontario... not in Hamilton if that makes a difference. In parry sound we only have one circumcision doctor and that would have been my family doctor who delivered my son.

Sorry I assumed you lived in Hamilton when your DS was born.


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## Jaydens_mom

At the time my son was born i was a single teen mother. 17 to be exact.
I don't have a penis so i don't know the proper way of pulling the skin back and cleaning and etc... and i didnt really want to have to show him how to do it when he was older as i was molested as a child and have great fear in touching my sons penis when he is old enough to bath himself...
Maybe you might not understand.. but for me i think it was the right choice.


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## Jaydens_mom

It's alright... but ill try and steer clear of dr loveless... lol


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## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
At the time my son was born i was a single teen mother. 17 to be exact.
I don't have a penis so i don't know the proper way of pulling the skin back and cleaning and etc... and i didnt really want to have to show him how to do it when he was older as i was molested as a child and have great fear in touching my sons penis when he is old enough to bath himself...
Maybe you might not understand.. but for me i think it was the right choice.

Acctually you'd be suprised how fast they figure that stuff out themselves. You dont have to fiddle with their penis when their small when their intact.

Just wipe it off like you would a finger. No big deal. Cuz the skin is acctually stuck to the head of the penis, and pulling it back causes damage and whatnot. It acctually pulls back on it's own.

And seriously, how many guys do you know need an excuse to play with themselves? None, it gets done in the shower without a hitch because it's akin to playin. Gets all clean and they have fun doin it. Basicly by the time the boy figures out how to masturbate, he's figured out how to get it clean.


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## Lula's Mom

And now we are back to "you didn't know". Because there is no pulling back and cleaning underneath to be done in an intact boy! Whoever told you that was wrong. You simply wash the outside like a finger. No retraction is necessary; it is a harmful thing to do. There is no more care involved in cleaning an intact boy's penis than a circumcised one; in fact there is less in the newborn period, since you are not dealing with an open wound sitting in urine and feces.

You need never touch your son's penis as he gets older. He can (and will!) do that himself. And... he does still have a penis. Does a circumcised one not hold the same fear for you?

I am so sorry about your molestation. That is a terrible thing that no one should ever have to go through. And so is circumcision. It's the old "two wrongs don't make a right", don't you see? You were harmed, and you have passed that harm on to your son. I know you didn't do it to hurt him, you were trying to protect yourself- but it is still never the right thing to do. I really hope you can go and get some counseling for what you went through, so that you can cope with it.

You are not the only one on MDC to deal with this issue, btw. We have a regular poster in the CAC forum who came before she had her son. She too was molested, by an intact man. She was terrified to leave her baby intact, but in the end with our help, she did. It helped her to deal with her terrible past, and she is very glad to have left her son the way he was born.


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## sadkitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I don't have a penis so i don't know the proper way of pulling the skin back and cleaning and etc...

_You_ never have to pull back the skin. That doesn't need doing until puberty, or the onset of sexual activity. It is not something you have to show them.

My mom didn't even know my twin brothers could retract at age 10 until I asked when they were 13!

Sound like you have to deal with his penis a lot more than if it were whole.

I am sorry your past issues influenced your decision to modify your baby.


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## Jaydens_mom

I don't recall whether or not the man who molested me was intact or not, all i know is that it was my father.
I will not REGRET my son being circumcised.
It is not like he is the only child in the world with less foreskin than normal.
If i allow him to think that I regret it then he will think there is something wrong with the way he looks.
There is nothing wrong with it. Sure it may not look the same as it did when he was born, but it doesn't look awfull either.


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## LizD

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Maybe you might not understand.. but for me i think it was the right choice.

You're his mother; therefore you make the right decisions for him. That's what everyone here is (hopefully) trying to do. It's all too easy to decide one's choices are right for someone else. We all do the best we can based on what we know to be right for us and our family.

Don't forget if your urologist says to leave it alone, and it doesn't resolve satisfactorily, you can always wait until he is older to repair it cosmetically; it might be easier for him to understand then, anyway. Sounds like your doctor will have the best advice for you in this situation.

I'm glad to see you say your son is "perfect," because that's just what he is.


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## Jaydens_mom

I am not trying to come off as RUDE , but this thread was not intended to be a war of rights and wrongs. My opinion is not going to change. I don't regret things, as you can't change what is already done.


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## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LizD*
You're his mother; therefore you make the right decisions for him. That's what everyone here is (hopefully) trying to do. It's all too easy to decide one's choices are right for someone else. We all do the best we can based on what we know to be right for us and our family.

*Don't forget if your urologist says to leave it alone, and it doesn't resolve satisfactorily, you can always wait until he is older to repair it cosmetically; it might be easier for him to understand then, anyway. Sounds like your doctor will have the best advice for you in this situation.*

I'm glad to see you say your son is "perfect," because that's just what he is.

Well i will see what my doctor says, im not allowing her to force it. If she says it looks like it was done wrong and refers me to a urologist and he says the same then i will look into what can be done about it. But if they say it looks normal and the skin will eventually pull away in time then i will wait it out, if in a few years it remains the same and he says something about it then we will go back and have it fixed.


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## Lula's Mom

The fact that it is done to a lot of other little boys will never make it right. I will say it again, it is the removal of another person's body part without their consent!!! If you were born in another country, the same thing might very well be done to you- you would be held down while your genitals were sliced away. Would it be OK then?

I am _incensed_ to see another poster support this "choice" as "what's right for your family". There are a whole lot of things that are flexible and negotiable in parenting, *but circumcision is not one of them.* It may have been the easy way out instead of getting therapy for molestation, but *it was not and never is the right choice for a baby.* He was the victim this time.

I hear your fear about making him feel damaged or unhappy. Again, you are not the only one who is afraid of that, not by a long shot. And if you go to the CAC forum and search old threads, you will learn ways to explain to your son.


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## sadkitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I am not trying to come off as RUDE , but this thread was not intended to be a war of rights and wrongs. My opinion is not going to change. I don't regret things, as you can't change what is already done.

You can't change things that were already done, but one can acknowledge mistakes, or bad choices and learn from one's past (unless you're the government







.)

You wouldn't be here if you didn't want to learn what, if anything, was wrong with your son's foreskin remnants.


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## Jaydens_mom

I came here because i wanted to know why the skin was still attached to the head of the penis when he is 2 1/2 years old.
I didn't come here to be told that i am a child mutilator and that i have deformed my son by choosing to have him circumcised.


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## Lact-o-Mama

's Mamma. I just wanted to pop in and assure you that the Mammas here mean no harm in what they say. Please understand that we are all coming from various circumstances, various well-researched circumstances.
All they want is to inform you and help you, not shun you.
MDC is a natural-family forum, meaning you will no doubt find decisions that you are unfamiliar with, like choosing not to vaccinate, breastfeeding, homebirth/unnassisted birth and not circumcising etc. The post you made stirred the pot a little, thats all









That being said...


----------



## alegna

I'm sorry that you're feeling attacked.

The skin is still attached because it SHOULD still be attached. The foreskin is attached to the head of the penis like a fingernail is attached to the bed. For a circumcision they RIP it loose (without adequate, if any, anesthesia) and crush it and cut it off. Like it or not, that's what was done to your son. His body is trying to heal itself.

-Angela


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## Jaydens_mom

Circumcision is not UNCOMMON .. otherwise it wouldn't be an option when you give birth to a boy whether or not to have him circumcised.
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.
In your OWN opinion, you may believe that it is wrong.. but there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna*
I'm sorry that you're feeling attacked.

The skin is still attached because it SHOULD still be attached. The foreskin is attached to the head of the penis like a fingernail is attached to the bed. For a circumcision they RIP it loose (without adequate, if any, anesthesia) and crush it and cut it off. Like it or not, that's what was done to your son. His body is trying to heal itself.

-Angela

Thank you for your discription. Knowing that it will eventually pull away from and expose the head of the penis fully makes it easier for me to look at it now.


----------



## Lula's Mom

I am 100% sure that no one called you a child mutilator. In fact, no one has been anything but polite.

The fact is, you made this decision on your son's behalf, and he has complications because of that. It's attached like that because you had him circumcised! That's the reason. There's no way to help you without telling you that he would not be in this situation if you hadn't done that.

I am not trying to debate this subject either; as far as I'm concerned, there is no debate. A wrong was perpetrated on your son, and I still blame the doctor (you should too).


----------



## alegna

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Circumcision is not UNCOMMON .. otherwise it wouldn't be an option when you give birth to a boy whether or not to have him circumcised.
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.
In your OWN opinion, you may believe that it is wrong.. but there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right.

It is not an opinion that it is WRONG to cause pain for no reason to another human. That is what routine infant circumcision is. It is WRONG. Common or not.

Female circumcision is common in parts of the world to. Do you plan to have any future daughters circumcised?

-Angela


----------



## Jaydens_mom

I have no idea what female circumcision is as i was blessed with not having a Long hood.


----------



## Lula's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Circumcision is not UNCOMMON .. otherwise it wouldn't be an option when you give birth to a boy whether or not to have him circumcised.
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.
In your OWN opinion, you may believe that it is wrong.. but there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right.

Sometimes it takes a while to shift your way of thinking.

I believe in freedom of choice too. It was his body, his penis- and you took that choice away from him for _your_ reasons.

A whole lot of people used to own slaves. They owned people as property. _It was very common._ At that time, most people didn't see that it was wrong. But it's an unchangeable fact- it _was_ wrong. And having body parts removed from a baby without medical necessity is wrong too.


----------



## sadkitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
but there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right.

We all believe in freedom of choice. That is why we give our sons the choice. their body, their rights.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.

By that logic...what other cosmetic surgeries could we have done on our newborns. Where do we draw the line?

On the site, we draw the line at unconsented to body modification. (for the most part.)

if you read the "mothers who regret" thread would it strenthen your resolve?


----------



## Jaydens_mom

You cannot just expect people to change thier opinions.
My son is circumcised. I can't change that. I am not going to lead him to believe he is less than perfect because of it. It will not alter whether or not he is capable of having children. It will not alter his capabilities of getting a girlfriend (or boyfriend) when he is older. It is a phyisical feature. If someone is going to be as shallow as to say "you're circumcised, i don't want to be with you" then they do not deserve him in thier life.


----------



## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Circumcision is not UNCOMMON .. otherwise it wouldn't be an option when you give birth to a boy whether or not to have him circumcised.
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.
In your OWN opinion, you may believe that it is wrong.. but there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right.

Acctually it is uncommon. OHIP doesn't cover RIC, Nor does any other province in this country.

The more people have to pay out of pocket, the less it's done...plain and simple.

In Canada, intact is the norm. only about %18 of this total country is cut.

Yup, %18

not very many if you come to think about it.

common > %50

Boys are being left whole more and more now. You were concerned about the locker room arguement, well that's not the case here, Circ isn't the norm in canada, not anymore...


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadkitty*
We all believe in freedom of choice. That is why we give our sons the choice. their body, their rights.

By that logic...what other cosmetic surgeries could we have done on our newborns. Where do we draw the line?

On the site, we draw the line at unconsented to body modification. (for the most part.)

if you read the "mothers who regret" thread would it strenthen your resolve?

I have read many posts in the mothers who regret thread, my opinion was not altered.


----------



## alegna

Oh but people DO change their opinions. Most of the world does not circ.

No one is saying your son is less of a person because of what was done to him. All we are saying is that it should not have been done to him. Do some more reading here. We all started out not knowing something. Learn. Grow. And make better decisions with the information you learn.

When you know better you do better.

-Angela


----------



## Sijae

Ewwww, just ewwww. I pretty much stay on MDC to avoid discussions like this. It looks like people have bent over backwards to mollify you and be kind and helpful and all you come back with is ignorant junk to stir the pot. You did abuse your son, there's no other way to put it. Mostly I don't say that to parents because I know most of them feel bad enough as it is but you seem to have no shame.

You took a perfect, whole human being and amputated part of his body and now you have the gall to come here and complain because it doesn't look pretty enough for you?

I really hope you can educate yourself and find some reality but based on your previous posts it looks like you have a lot invested in believing a lie.

If you can bring yourself to admit when you are wrong, there is a ton of information to be learned about the function of the foreskin and the human rights issues surrounding male and female genital mutilation.

Laura


----------



## Lula's Mom

Actually, I do think it is reasonable to think that an intelligent woman will change her opinion when presented with the facts in a kind, understanding manner. That's what I'm trying to do here.

Good Lord, do you think I'm asking you to tell your son that there's something wrong with him??? I'm not, not at all! He has already gone through the circumcision- I would never want him to feel like that.

I am trying to educate _you._ You may think you're informed but your posts have shown that your understanding of the human rights issue as well as the anatomy of the penis are just abysmal. But you can learn, and you can help others not to make this mistake.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

I did not say people DON'T change thier opinions. I said you can't just EXPECT people to change thier opinions.
I am 100% satisfied with my CHOICE to have my son circumcised. I am glad my doctor chose to do a LOOSE circumcision as it gives it a less drastic look.
Maybe ONE DAY baby boys will no longer be circumcised, but in this day and age it is still going on. So when my son is old enough to understand and be in a situation where he is in a locker room full of other naked boys, he won't be the only one in the room without foreskin.


----------



## Pandora114

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I did not say people DON'T change thier opinions. I said you can't just EXPECT people to change thier opinions.
I am 100% satisfied with my CHOICE to have my son circumcised. I am glad my doctor chose to do a LOOSE circumcision as it gives it a less drastic look.
Maybe ONE DAY baby boys will no longer be circumcised, but in this day and age it is still going on. So when my son is old enough to understand and be in a situation where he is in a locker room full of other naked boys, he won't be the only one in the room without foreskin.

Acctually he probably will be...

>.>

Remember, Circ rate, Canada %18

He probably very well be the only cut boy in the locker room


----------



## Jaydens_mom

I understand that you are trying to change my views on circumcision in hopes that i will not circumcise my next son.. but maybe you should know that i am unable to have any further children. So to me, i am taking this as you are telling me that i am horrible because i had my one and only child who happened to be a male, circumcised.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Heck if i was able to have another child and it turned out to be a boy maybe i would reconsider having him circumcised, but the fact remains that i will never be able to make that choice again. I am not going to tell other people what they should do with thier sons either.


----------



## Lula's Mom

You're satisfied. And you're especially glad he has a loose circumcision.

The circumcision that led you here, to say

Quote:

frankly im scared
and

Quote:

I am still not satisfied though.
and

Quote:

i did not expect this "deformed" look.
You are lying to yourself. I hope you can put down your defenses and learn, so you can acknowledge your mistake and never make it agaiin.


----------



## Sijae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I understand that you are trying to change my views on circumcision in hopes that i will not circumcise my next son.. but maybe you should know that i am unable to have any further children. So to me, i am taking this as you are telling me that i am horrible because i had my one and only child who happened to be a male, circumcised.

But when you say uneducated and negative things about whole children and tell people that a circumcised penis is perfect and raised your son to circumcise his sons, you are perpetuating abuse. So whether you have more children or not you are in a position to effect the world for better or worse. Right now you are on the worse path. If you come to MDC and talk about circumcising you are likely to have people try to sway you into the better category.

Laura


----------



## Jaydens_mom

I would like to thank everyone who gave me information on what was happening with my sons fused foreskin and how to deal with it. That is all i came here for.. I didn't come here to be told what i did was wrong and that i have been selfish and abusive to my son by getting him circumcised in the first place.


----------



## sadkitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I understand that you are trying to change my views on circumcision in hopes that i will not circumcise my next son.. but maybe you should know that i am unable to have any further children. So to me, i am taking this as you are telling me that i am horrible because i had my one and only child who happened to be a male, circumcised.

It is a hard thing to be able to look at your child and say "I am sorry. I love you very much but, I made a mistake." As the mother of a 10 y.o. I've had to say this a number of times. Its hard, but she respects me so much more. It was the hardest parenting lesson I've had to teach my DH (her stepdad.)
We all make mistakes as people and parents. Its a hard way to learn, but man does the lesson stick!


----------



## Lula's Mom

What Sijae said. I am sorry you cannot have more children, if you wanted them. That's hard.







But there are many opportunities to makke things as right as they _can_ be, after the fact. You can raise your son to know that circumcision is unnecessary, so he will not do it to his own sons. You need not tell him he is "deformed" to do this; simply tell him that the docotrs led you to believe it was the right choice to make, and now you know it's not necessary. That's all.

As far as telling people what to do with their own children. We ALL have a responsibility to protect children from harm.


----------



## dillonandmarasmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Heck if i was able to have another child and it turned out to be a boy maybe i would reconsider having him circumcised, but the fact remains that i will never be able to make that choice again. I am not going to tell other people what they should do with thier sons either.

I think that is all people here are trying to do, is help you make a more informed choice next time. Since there won't be a next time, it is okay to understand NOW that what you did was medically unneccessary and cruel.

I do now. My DS is circ'd and I regret it everytime I look at his little penis. I feel shame everytime others see it. All but one of the people I know with preschoolers have NOT circ'd, so I am the odd one. AND, I am the only CRUNCHY one...go figure! I wisj I could take it back. We made a last minute decision based on the lockerroom and Daddy's is arguments, and we both regret it...







:

Fortunately, DS can still choose to fix our mistake...someday when he understands this all.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sijae*
But when you say uneducated and negative things about whole children and tell people that a circumcised penis is perfect and raised your son to circumcise his sons, you are perpetuating abuse. So whether you have more children or not you are in a position to effect the world for better or worse. Right now you are on the worse path. If you come to MDC and talk about circumcising you are likely to have people try to sway you into the better category.

Laura

Please point out to me where i have said anything negative about children who are uncircumcised.. I don't recall saying that the only perfect penis is a circumcised penis. I believe in choice. I did not tell my cousin his sons penis is ugly because its not circumcised. That was HIS choice. It's not ugly at all, its a penis. Personally i don't find penis' attractive to begin with , whether they are uncircumcised or not.


----------



## Lula's Mom

But why do you not believe that it should have been your _son's_ choice?


----------



## Jaydens_mom

When / If my son comes up to me in 8+ years and asks "mom, why did you have my penis circumcised/cut/etc?", I will tell him exactly why. If he is upset about it for whatever reason I will THEN apologize and feel remorse for my actions.
However he is 2 1/2. I will climb this wall when i come to it. There is no sense in stressing out over something that wont become an issue (if it does at all ) for another few years.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
But why do you not believe that it should have been your _son's_ choice?

Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.


----------



## sadkitty

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.

Oh man. this just gets sadder.














A baby can feel pain mor accutely than an adult. did you know there are thousand of nerve endings in the foreskin? Oh man...


----------



## Lula's Mom

You see, this is how it is! I knew there was more to it for you. There are layers and layers to this issue, and you have to dig through it to understand your own feelings! Many of us, at one time, had the exact same beliefs as you.

All of the boys and men I um, knew, growing up were circumcised. I too thought that was the way it was supposed to be. (Except one boyfriend, plus my dad- but I only saw his once, accidentally, so I didn't really 'know'.) When my sisters had their sons before I had any children, I knew no more of circumcision than you do. I did not question them about it, I just thought it had to be done! And it was. I remember my nephew's scabbed, bloody penis with the plastic ring tied around it. I saw that horrible sight, and I didn't even question the necessity for that surgery on a brand-new baby!

Luckily I read about it before I was pregnant the first time. My baby was a girl but I had already learned enough to know I wouldn't circumcise. Now I have a boy who is intact.

I know you can't really believe what your mother said about babies not feeling pain. You are young and I know she's your mom... but you know they do. There is a Graphic Circ Video on the CAC forum, and if you watch it, you will have no doubt.

I know this has not been an easy thread for you, and I am glad you are still here talking about it.


----------



## dillonandmarasmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be *virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives*. My mother paid for it, not I.

Just wow...oh. my. god.

That quote is probably the most inaccurate piece of information I have ever read.

ETA I am sorry you had this type of support as a young mom. I can almost understand why you would believe something so outlandish...


----------



## Sijae

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Please point out to me where i have said anything negative about children who are uncircumcised.. I don't recall saying that the only perfect penis is a circumcised penis. I believe in choice. I did not tell my cousin his sons penis is ugly because its not circumcised. That was HIS choice. It's not ugly at all, its a penis. Personally i don't find penis' attractive to begin with , whether they are uncircumcised or not.

I'd be happy to point out the things that are so deeply disturbing about how you speak about your sons penis. First of all you seem unusually concerned with how it looks:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
Yes my son does in fact have a LOOSE circumcision..it almost looks like it wasn't circumcised at all because the skin still covers most of the head.

It's just that when we pull the skin back as far as it will go naturally it looks as if it was actually sewn to the base of the head.. im not sure exactly what fusing is supposed to look like... but this looks like it will never pull away









Maybe it's how it is supposed to look, but any other circumcised penis' i have seen have Never looked like this. Even my step-son when he was 2 had a clearly circumcised penis, although he was circumcised by a different doctor. There was no fusion... the skin was not covering the head whatsoever.

It just really worries me, even my mother insists it was done wrong because my brothers never looked like this...

I am taking him to a pediatrician on Monday and she is going to give me a second opinion and perhaps even reffer me to a urologist..

I am really hoping that it does pull apart and reveal the entire head eventually. I really don't want to have to get him re-circumcised.. it'd break my heart.


Quote:

now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.

Quote:

All i can do is wait i guess, and hopefully it will detach itself fully and be how i EXPECTED it to be.

Quote:

But if they say it looks normal and the skin will eventually pull away in time then i will wait it out, if in a few years it remains the same and he says something about it then we will go back and have it fixed.

Quote:

I expected it to look circumcised.. much like any other circumcised male, i expected the head to be fully visable... i did not expect this "deformed" look.

Quote:

Thank you for your discription. Knowing that it will eventually pull away from and expose the head of the penis fully makes it easier for me to look at it now.
You have made it perfectly clear that you desire your sons penis to look a certain way and that you yourself (not us) find your sons penis in its current state repulsive and deformed. If anyone gives your kid the message that he is not perfect it will be you trying to alter his body for your own benefit. And if you thought that whole penis's were acceptable you wouldn't be so darn concerned that he still has skin covering the glans. The obvious conclusion form your obsession with the circ'd look is that you have something against a normal penis.

Quote:

If someone is going to be as shallow as to say "you're circumcised, i don't want to be with you" then they do not deserve him in thier life.
Quite ironically that seems to be exactly what you are saying about him. If his penis doesn't conform to your standards you will have it "fixed" regardless of how damaging it is to him.

Here is where uneducated misinformation comes into play:

Quote:

I don't have a penis so i don't know the proper way of pulling the skin back and cleaning and etc... and i didnt really want to have to show him how to do it when he was older
Obviously you don't actually know anything about normal penis's because you would know that pulling the foreskin back is harmful. And if you are this uneducated about penis's then each time you talk to another mom about parenting choices you are likely to be imparting some of that misinformation.

Laura


----------



## Lula's Mom

Well, it seems the OP has retired for the evening, so I am finally off to bed. It is 3 o'clock in the morning! An intactivist work's is never done...

Jaydens_mom, I hope you will stick around.


----------



## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I came here because i wanted to know why the skin was still attached to the head of the penis when he is 2 1/2 years old.
I didn't come here to be told that i am a child mutilator and that i have deformed my son by choosing to have him circumcised.

Hi,

No one has even suggested you are a child mutilator. On the contrary, the posters have acknowledged that you were not fully informed about the foreskin or circumcision before you had the surgery done to your son. That makes you as much a victim as it does him. The very fact that you mentioned how worried you were about cleaning the area is proof that you were either uninformed, or misinformed.

I have a two year old son. I can assure you that absolutely no effort goes into cleaning his intact penis. The only cleaning a parent ever has to worry about is wiping the outside like a finger. A parent no more has to clean under the foreskin than they need to pry up their own fingernails and clean the skin beneath.

~Nay


----------



## georgia

I am moving this to the Circumcision Forum as there is a wealth of information about penises there


----------



## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.

Wrong, wrong, so very very very wrong









You _should_ have researched this more. Every reply you post emphasizes how you were completely clueless about everything having to do with circumcision. You allowed your newborn to have a normal and healthy part of his body amputated based on misinformation so outlandishly stupid that I, personally, would be embarrassed to admit them as reasons.

"ATLANTA (CNN) -- A new study found circumcision so traumatic that doctors ended the study early rather than subject any more babies to the operation without anesthesia.

The researchers discovered that for those circumcised without anesthesia there was not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing...Up to 96 percent of the babies in the United States and Canada receive no anesthesia when they are circumcised, according to a report from the University of Alberta in Edmonton.

from http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/

Many people on here have offered you kindness and helpful advice. They've pointed you to the regrets thread and informed you that many mothers on here who have one or more circumcised sons have educated themselves about circumcision and are now among the most vocal of intactivists. They have repeatedly told you that you are not to blame; it's obvious by your responses that _no one_ helped you learn this topic at all. And yet even with your original questions about the skin reattaching and looking "deformed", even with the information that practically everything you know about the intact penis is inaccurate, even with the information that Canada's circumcision rate is down to 18%, you still have the gall to tell all of us that everything is perfect, and that *YOU* are happy with how you had your *SON'S* penis modified.

You may think your son will grow up completely clueless that a part of his healthy body was ampuated. You are forgetting, however, of an invention known as "the internet". It is true that he may not care that he was circumcised, but I can guarentee you that he will find out about it. In finding out, he will also end up reading and learning about the normal foreskin, the roles it plays in infancy and adulthood, and how circumcisions are performed. The men of today are much more knowledgable about what they lost for no reason than their fathers, and our sons will be even more knowledgable. My parents-in-law were very surprised to learn that my husband is upset and angry about having been circumcised. They never thought he would have a clue. Unfortunately they guessed wrong. Of course it doesn't affect them at all because it's not their penis. They weren't the ones who had to deal with pain and tightness with every erection. You see, even though parents are the ones who choose this cosmetic surgery, they aren't the ones who grow up to actually use the modified body part. It's the exact same for you. You would have seen your son's penis for probably 5 years at the most. He's going to have to see it and use it *every single day* for the rest of his life.

~Nay


----------



## Revamp

The fusing is something which all intact men have. It is there so that the foreskin does not keep on rolling down the shaft, which would be of little merit and great complexity and risk.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sijae*
I'd be happy to point out the things that are so deeply disturbing about how you speak about your sons penis. First of all you seem unusually concerned with how it looks:

You have made it perfectly clear that you desire your sons penis to look a certain way and that you yourself (not us) find your sons penis in its current state repulsive and deformed. If anyone gives your kid the message that he is not perfect it will be you trying to alter his body for your own benefit. And if you thought that whole penis's were acceptable you wouldn't be so darn concerned that he still has skin covering the glans. The obvious conclusion form your obsession with the circ'd look is that you have something against a normal penis.

*There is nothing wrong with skin still covering the head of his penis, it looks fine. It is the fusion that i was wondering about... which is when you pull the skin back and the underlying tissue (bottom of the foreskin) is still attached to the head in some manner, which is in my sons case around the ridge before it curves under. It is noticably flawed AT THE MOMENT, and i was wondering if that skin pulls away on its own or if it was a circumcisional error on my doctors part (maybe he attached it there by accident)...
flawed in my opinion is : it looks neither like a circumcised or non circumcised penis.*

Quite ironically that seems to be exactly what you are saying about him. If his penis doesn't conform to your standards you will have it "fixed" regardless of how damaging it is to him.

Here is where uneducated misinformation comes into play:
*The only way to make you understand what i mean is to take a picture of his penis and post it, which i refuse to do.
I have already stated that i will not allow the doctors to forcefully pull it away, and if it doesnt pull away on its own i will let him decide when / if he wants to get that fixed up so that the head is no longer FUSED, and by FUSED I mean LITERALLY ATTACHED to his foreskin*

Obviously you don't actually know anything about normal penis's because you would know that pulling the foreskin back is harmful. And if you are this uneducated about penis's then each time you talk to another mom about parenting choices you are likely to be imparting some of that misinformation.


 *Perhaps this is due to parents being taught a long time ago that the skin needs to be MANUALLY pulled back every time it is cleaned... it may be proven to be harmful now, but when i gave birth my mother was only able to tell me what she was told when she had my brother 18 years ago. Obviously you are misunderstanding my discription of the appearance of my sons penis.. you are stating that i am unhappy with the left over foreskin which is UNTRUE. I was concerned about the underlying foreskin that is ATTACHED to his penis not allowing the whole head to appear when the skin is pulled back. I would much rather my son have EXTRA skin then not enough skin when he is older thanks.*


----------



## Jaydens_mom

augh i wish you could see it as you are getting the wrong mental picture of what it looks like.
I have seen circumcised penis' on children his age and the skin is NOT attached to the head of the penis, it is attached to the shaft and the head is fully exposed. Which is what a circumcised penis is intended to look like.

I am not saying this is the PERFECT IMAGE of a penis, and that uncircumcised penis' look wrong so for those who are taking it that way, you need to stop reading so much into my posts.

I am only stating that it doesn't look like ANY other circumcised penis i have seen in my life or on the internet. It does not look UNcircumcised either.

The extra forskin that still covers half the head when not pulled back is fine with me, its better that way. But the part that is actually ATTACHED to the point where it almost looks as if it were stiched there, is what concerns me.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Basically i EXPECTED the after product to look like every other circumcised child's penis, not to have skin attached to the head.

Looking at it, i cannot even imagine how it can pull off by itself without surgery.. it just looks so... attached.. like an arm is attached to a torso.

Im not saying that my only option IS surgery , because that is a LAST case scenerio.

I had nooooo idea there was such thing as fused foreskin to the head of the penis until i did some internet searching and finally after a few days found a picture that LOOKED almost like what my sons penis looks like and it was "fused" as they put it.


----------



## Revamp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
augh i wish you could see it as you are getting the wrong mental picture of what it looks like.
I have seen circumcised penis' on children his age and the skin is NOT attached to the head of the penis, it is attached to the shaft and the head is fully exposed. Which is what a circumcised penis is intended to look like.

I am not saying this is the PERFECT IMAGE of a penis, and that uncircumcised penis' look wrong so for those who are taking it that way, you need to stop reading so much into my posts.

I am only stating that it doesn't look like ANY other circumcised penis i have seen in my life or on the internet. It does not look UNcircumcised either.

The extra forskin that still covers half the head when not pulled back is fine with me, its better that way. But the part that is actually ATTACHED to the point where it almost looks as if it were stiched there, is what concerns me.

Ok, so this is underneath the glans/head yes?

It is totally sealed up, there is no entryway to the skin below at all?

Normal.

Seriously, I know exactly the part you mean. If you retract an intact man (after asking his permission of course







) then you can see it. I have one of them and every other intact man does too.

In most circumcisions they cut past this point and try to start digging out the mucosal tissue too, in a very loose circumcision I can imagine that that part could be left.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

no... the head is not fully exposed when the skin is pulled back, you can not see the under ridge of the head... where it curves under like a mushroom ... because the skin is attached before it even gets to that point.


----------



## Revamp

Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

see how in this diagram the skin is still loosly circumcised but the head is FULLY revealed when pulled back?
http://www.aboutcirc.com/modcirc.gif

THIS IS NOT WHAT MY SONS PENIS LOOKS LIKE.

The skin is attached just before the head is fully revealed, so the undercurve of the head in UNDER the skin instead of revealed... shmegma gets is under this skin in pockets and is hard to get out...


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Revamp*
Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.

This sounds about right, yes.
As long as it is self fixable ( the body does it on its own ) then that is great.. i didn't want it to be an issue for him later on in life when he sees an uncircumcised LOOSE skined penis erect and wonders why his head is not fully visable like that.


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
He is perfect.


You messed with his perfection. But you made what you thought was the right decision at the time. Now you know better, and you can make better choices in the future, like leaving what's left of his poor foreskin alone and not re-circumcising him.


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
I am not altering my opinion of circumcision. I was NOT informed of the fusing process... however i had full knowledge about loss of sensitivity and etc.. as my cousin and i both had our children in the same month and discussed this (his son is uncut). Sure maybe when he is having sex it will not feel as great as it might for an uncircumcised male, but having always being circumcised how is he to know the difference..


This is a really awful position to take. "I know what I robbed him of, but he won't know." Wow. Just wow.


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
An intactivist work's is never done...

So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

ETA:

In the lactivist forums there has been much discussion about whether it is really beneficial to rip mamas apart over choices made in the context of much misinformation and lack of support.

It would be nice to see some similar discussion among "intactivists." I think it would do a lot more for the cause than the attacking. All the attacking does IMO is make the attackers feel superior. Which is a fun feeling, but not exactly the altruism people are claiming it is.

To the OP:

I am sorry you are being so brutally attacked, especially when you came here to ask a question.

I think that circumcision is an important issue, and that not cutting is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.


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## Lact-o-Mama

*Jaydens_Mom*

I just have a question for you, meant with complete sincerity as I am truly curious:

*How did you find out about MDC? We know you're *new* as yesterdays post was your 1st ( and you are now over 40, WOW*







*)*

* However wrong or mis-informed everyone feels you were at having your son circ'ed, it was YOU'RE doing and if YOU"RE fine with that, that is truly what matters here. We all do things that might make our *neighbours* cringe.
My sister is due any day now and says with certainty that she will circ' a boy







. She is currently witnessing me nurse my 3.5yo and said to me the other day...."I leave you alone about the choices you make, now leave me alone..." Hmmph. I put my foot in my mouth as up until that day I had been sending her a barroge of links on circ's, vidoe clips etc.
If she has a boy, I will have to cry on the shoulders of the Mammas here as my family is pro-circ as yours is.


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## thismama

If the OP is a fake ya'll can look at this as a dry run and maybe talk about how you could respond better next time?


----------



## Lula's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.


Yes, yes it must be. Because this absolutely is what I call intactivism: gently educating this mama and others. Because she can't change it, she gets a free pass to be ignorant and continue the misinformation she was told? NO FREAKIN' WAY. I have been nothing but kind and gentle to this mama. I like her and I feel that if we can keep the dialogue going, she will come out the other side better for it. I busted my butt giving her information on her son's condition, which cannot and should not be discussed without the addendum that 'hey, circumcision is a bad thing which caused this problem in the first place'. You show me one place that I have been rude or unkind to her! I cannot and would not control what others say, but I have done my very best here. And your perception changes that not one bit.


----------



## AntoninBeGonin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.


Did you read the entire thread?









~Nay


----------



## Lula's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
In the lactivist forums there has been much discussion about whether it is really beneficial to rip mamas apart over choices made in the context of much misinformation and lack of support.

It would be nice to see some similar discussion among "intactivists." I think it would do a lot more for the cause than the attacking. All the attacking does IMO is make the attackers feel superior. Which is a fun feeling, but not exactly the altruism people are claiming it is.


You know what, you don't apparently spend enough time here to know that we did recently have an extremely long thread about this subject. Some people have a more blunt style of writing and layinng out the facts. If you are feeling defensive, laying out the facts can feel like an attack. I do think posters should try to get a feel for the individual OP and tailor their posts to her situation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I think that circumcision is an important issue, and that not cutting is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.

It has been expressed many times on this thread that we understand and sympathize with this mama, that she has been misinformed by everyone from her doctor to her entire family (her own mother!) The phrase "when you know better, you do better" was said to her with compassion. The approach you are preaching to us was used here.

Her son was perfect when he was born. He was damaged by a doctor's greed and the misinformation that she believed.


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
You know what, you don't apparently spend enough time here to know that we did recently have an extremely long thread about this subject.

No, it's true I don't spend enough time here to know that. But, I can tell you honestly that I could not have deduced from this thread that that conversation occurred. And I think that says something.









Quote:

If you are feeling defensive, laying out the facts can feel like an attack
True. But I'm not feeling defensive, and this seems like an attack to me. Yes the facts were laid out, and that is good. But it could have been done in a more respectful, gentler way. Gawd knows I'm not the queen of gentle myself, but it is a skill that I think is important in activism, especially when talking about something personal.

Quote:

Her son was perfect when he was born. He was damaged by a doctor's greed and the misinformation that she believed.
I don't know, I think our wounds are part of our perfection.

This mama says she was 17 when her son was born. She was sexually abused in her own childhood, and so has a particular concern about not wanting to deal with her child's penis more than she has to. And she was misinformed that circing would mean less care. Her mama told her circ was the right thing to do.

I wish people here understood better that most of the crappy choices mamas make for our children exist within a context of non-support, misinformation, and even abuse of the mama.







Dealing aggressively with the context, and gently with the mama, would better meet our end goals, no?


----------



## Lula's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I wish people here understood better that most of the crappy choices mamas make for our children exist within a context of non-support, misinformation, and even abuse of the mama. Dealing aggressively with the context, and gently with the mama, would better meet our end goals, no?

I ask you again, show me where I did not deal gently with her and consider all of the factors that went into her decision? Go back and read my posts. I told her I understood how she was misinformed- I empathized with her because that's what I used to believe too. I said it's horrible that she was abused- but she needs therapy, her son didn't need a circumcision. I told her she should be angry at the doctor who did this. She is young and impressionable, I get that and I told her so. I've given her hugs and compassion. And yet you quoted me, saying all of this does not sound like good intactivism to you?

You know, I am inclined to agree that in most cases, our scars make us beautiful or 'perfect'. They are a roadmap showing where we've been and what we've lived through. But not with circumcision. There is nothing beautiful in a scar that says "I was strapped into a Circumstraint when I was 1 day old, and had my foreskin ripped from my glans with a blunt probe, then cut with scissors and sliced off with a scalpel, all without anesthesia". *There is nothing perfect about that!*


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.


She could change her attitude. And she could NOT re-circumcise him, as she is considering doing. And she could not circ other sons in the future. So, there are things she could change.


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
You show me one place that I have been rude or unkind to her!

Just to clarify, I don't remember what you personally did or didn't say. I just saw your comment about "an intactivist's work is never done" in the context of what I perceive to be the attacking tone of this thread, and that is what I responded to.


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A*
She could change her attitude. And she could NOT re-circumcise him, as she is considering doing. So, there are things she could change.

Yes, and I believe people are more likely to respond to what we are saying when we are respectful.


----------



## Lula's Mom

What typically happens here is this: there is a question from a new person. Some of us answer it gently. One or two people may be harsher, but not usually.

Then it goes one of two ways, depending on the response of the OP. If she seems like she's getting it, we keep talking and explaining to her. That is how it most often goes here. At the end, she is grateful and we are overjoyed. Search for the thread "Should I not have my nephew circumcised?" You'll see.

On the other hand, if the OP is staunchly defending "her choice" to have her son cut, then some people are going to get upset and start posting harsher things, trying to shake her out of her mentality. It is very hard for an intactivist to hear somebody defend, over and over, the amputation of a newborn's body part. Some of us can keep our emotions in check, some of us have a hard time on some threads. That is what happened here.


----------



## Lula's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
Just to clarify, I don't remember what you personally did or didn't say. I just saw your comment about "an intactivist's work is never done" in the context of what I perceive to be the attacking tone of this thread, and that is what I responded to.


Clearly I wrote that considering myself an intactivist, doing the work I consider to be vitally important, in the best way I know how. So if you weren't tallking about me, then don't quote me. You could just as well have made your comments that you found the thread harsh, without making that quote.


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
On the other hand, if the OP is staunchly defending "her choice" to have her son cut, then some people are going to get upset and start posting harsher things, trying to shake her out of her mentality.

In this case, I don't see the OP staunchly defending her choice. I see her saying, basically 'I won't use the word regret, because I don't regret things I can't change in this life. But if I had another boy, I might make a different choice.' And my perception is that people basically jump all over her, trying to get her to use the word 'regret.' And in the process some very personal, very hurtful things are said that, if I were the OP and new to this site, would send me running in the other direction to tell my friends about the crazies who think circ is torture over on MDC.

Quote:

It is very hard for an intactivist to hear somebody defend, over and over, the amputation of a newborn's body part. Some of us can keep our emotions in check, some of us have a hard time on some threads. That is what happened here.
Yes, I can understand that. I have a hard time with it too, moreso seeing cut baby boys IRL than hearing about it on the internet. I find it very disturbing, and very sad.

And I have a hard time with my inclination to judge the mama... I am very judgmental by nature, and I need to sort of try to keep it balanced with what I know about why a mama might make that decison for her son. Doesn't mean it's a good decision, but that there are reasons, yk? And addressing the reasons and *respectfully* providing information is the best intactivist strategy, kwim?


----------



## thismama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
Clearly I wrote that considering myself an intactivist, doing the work I consider to be vitally important, in the best way I know how. So if you weren't tallking about me, then don't quote me. You could just as well have made your comments that you found the thread harsh, without making that quote.

Well, not to nitpick, but I was talking about you. That comment, in the context of the thread, seemed to me to communicate approval of the harshness, and maybe even that there was a common understanding amongst "intactivists" on this board that this thread constitutes intactivism.


----------



## laohaire

Jaydens_mom, you wrote that you would prevent the doctor if s/he _mentioned_ pulling the foreskin away from the glans.

I wanted to warn you so you know in advance: virtually all doctors will simply yank it (VERY painful!!!!!) without asking or warning either you or your son.

I would recommend telling the doctor VERY FIRMLY, and UPFRONT that s/he is NOT to do this. You should also stand very near your son during the examination and physically stop the doctor should it look like this will happen (though unfortunately it usually happens too quickly to prevent).

Good luck.


----------



## Revamp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jaydens_mom*
This sounds about right, yes.
As long as it is self fixable ( the body does it on its own ) then that is great.. i didn't want it to be an issue for him later on in life when he sees an uncircumcised LOOSE skined penis erect and wonders why his head is not fully visable like that.

Basically all intact foreskins are fused to the glans, right? So the remnants of his body have just attempted to do the same.

That normally dissolves and the growth of the penis which occurs between infancy and adulthood sorts it out. So nothing to concern yourself with really.


----------



## Lula's Mom

That comment meant that *I am an intactivist*, and *I* stayed up until 3 a.m. to talk to this mama because I was afraid to leave her. I thought she was close to understanding, and wanted to keep the dialogue going. I was exhausted and my whole family was asleep in the room around me, but I stayed until she logged off. Because an intactivist's work is never done.

*and at that point, this thread was on Toddlers, not this board.


----------



## Lula's Mom

Examples of her staunch defense of circumcision:

Quote:

He is perfect. I have no regrets.
(Not the same as "I won't use the word 'regret'.)

Quote:

My opinion is not going to change.

Quote:

Circumcision is not UNCOMMON .. otherwise it wouldn't be an option when you give birth to a boy whether or not to have him circumcised.
Sure it used to be a cultural/religious thing at one time, and now *it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.*
In your OWN opinion, you may believe that it is wrong.. but *there are still a significant amount of parents out there who believe in the freedom of choice, and believe it is right*.
Oh, I almost forgot this one:

Quote:

I am not altering my opinion of circumcision. I was NOT informed of the fusing process... however *i had full knowledge about loss of sensitivity and etc*.. as my cousin and i both had our children in the same month and discussed this (his son is uncut). *Sure maybe when he is having sex it will not feel as great as it might for an uncircumcised male, but having always being circumcised how is he to know the difference*..
As I said, I feel she is getting closer to understanding. And if that understanding includes regret, that can be a healthy thing. It means she understands where she went wrong and wouldn't do it again. It doesn't have to mean self-flagellation for the rest of her days. We are very, very accepting of mamas who change their postion on circumcision here. They are welcomed with open arms. Those who say "I won't change my opinion", not so much. Personally I feel she said that only because shhe has not had enough time to think about it.


----------



## TigerTail

Lula'smom, you have been exceptional. I hope that this extremely informational thread that you clearly put your heart & soul into does not continue to be derailed. Thank you for your selfless work of intactivism.


----------



## GoodWillHunter

Hi, Jaydens_Mom.

I have four boys, three of which are circ'ed and one intact. My second son's circ looks similar to what you described in your son. I have left it completely alone. It will most probably resolve itself. If, at puberty, it hasn't, then we may look into consulting a urologist, but, if it doesn't inhibit normal sexual function and urination, again, we will leave it alone. And I really hadn't thought much about it until now. LOL. But, I have learned a lot from this thread.

I do regret that I circ'ed my three older sons, but, at the same time, I cannot change what happened simply because I want to assuage my guilt. I really have no guilt, as I didn't know any better at the time. My fourth son is intact and I certainly believe in the adage of "You know better, you do better."

However, I believe circumcision is a personal choice and I will not be circumcising any future sons (although I will not be having any more) and I will certainly aid my children in their quest for knowledge when they have their children. I also understand the arguments regarding that circumcision is done to someone else who is not choosing this. It does make sense.

But, you cannot undo the past and you can certainly change the future.

My hopes are the future will be changed for you. Good luck and take care.


----------



## Lula's Mom

Thank you, TigerTail, for being so nice, and for reminding me that this has gone much too far OT. Perhaps if another poster thinks that this board's regular posters are too harsh, she will come and post gently herself, to balance out the tone. Or perhaps she will read a lot of other threads and realize that the tone here generally _is_ quite welcoming.

But I am proud of the way we do things here- I think it's a wonderful forum with incredible people.







Back to Jaydens_mom's thread!


----------



## InDaPhunk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I think that circumcision is an *important issue*, and that *not cutting* is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.

Let's be clear. "Not cutting" is not only "better", but *cutting is wrong*. It is also *bad*. This is not a "Gee, I think not circumcising is better so I hope people do that" issue. This is not just an "important issue". This is an issue that we intactivists feel should be *illegal so that we'd never have to have a conversation like this one ever ever again*. I wish the term "intactivist" would cease to exist because circumcision has been outlawed. I'd love to be out of a "job" and so would everyone else that posts in CAC.

Just to clarify.

So please don't assume that it makes us feel, as you say "superior" when we "attack someone". It pretty much makes me feel sick that I even have to have these conversations at all. Maybe it makes you feel superior or someone you know feel superior when you discuss the relatvie merits of human milk vs. formula for babies, but it does not make intactivists feel superior to discuss someone cutting the genitals of their child. And it's insulting that you would say so.


----------



## A&A

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
Yes, and I believe people are more likely to respond to what we are saying when we are respectful.


I was responding to you saying that she can't change the situation. Some of that is not true.


----------



## A&A

.


----------



## InDaPhunk

I'm also going to add that I hate that this thread got so derailed. I've been following it since it was in toddlers and I felt some very good progress was being made and the dialoguing going on was informative and would help someone, even if not the OP, maybe someone lurking. Now Jaden's mom will have to wade through all the caca to read what she needs to read. Same for any lurkers trying to learn about circumcision. What a shame. I didn't think the posts were at all "attacking", especially when you consider the fact that heads were exploding all over CAC at some of the statements posted, I think people were successfully educating and discussing, not attacking at all.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lact-o-Mama*
*Jaydens_Mom*

I just have a question for you, meant with complete sincerity as I am truly curious:

*How did you find out about MDC? We know you're *new* as yesterdays post was your 1st ( and you are now over 40, WOW*







*)*

* However wrong or mis-informed everyone feels you were at having your son circ'ed, it was YOU'RE doing and if YOU"RE fine with that, that is truly what matters here. We all do things that might make our *neighbours* cringe.
My sister is due any day now and says with certainty that she will circ' a boy







. She is currently witnessing me nurse my 3.5yo and said to me the other day...."I leave you alone about the choices you make, now leave me alone..." Hmmph. I put my foot in my mouth as up until that day I had been sending her a barroge of links on circ's, vidoe clips etc.
If she has a boy, I will have to cry on the shoulders of the Mammas here as my family is pro-circ as yours is.

I was looking up fused foreskin and etc on google and i came across what i am assuming to be an old thread on this site, ( i cant find it now !?) and someone asked about thier sons fused foreskin and i thought that maybe if i signed up and explained my situation i could get a more informal answer. I didn't realize this was an anti-circumcision and etc forum :| I think im finally starting to realize i came across the wrong site for my opinions..


----------



## tireesix

This thread has really upset me.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
If the OP is a fake ya'll can look at this as a dry run and maybe talk about how you could respond better next time?









I am not a fake. I am a 19 year old mother of a 2 1/2 year old boy whom is circumcised. I grew up in a small town where it is a common procedure. I think i just stumbled across the wrong site to ask my question.


----------



## pigpokey

Jaydens_mom, it is clear you came to your opinions during a difficult time, when you were a minor yourself, with your traumas uncleared, with your mother sharing her own ignorance from the authority of her position.

I hope you will table any concerns about your son's penis for now. You've got a lot on your plate. Nothing need be done as your worst case concerns about his penis cannot come to pass for years, if ever. The best think you can do now as a mother is leave it alone and revisit it in a couple of years. Perhaps it will resolve on its own before then, or perhaps you will table it until he gets to puberty and he can participate on a meaningful level with you in decisions regarding his body.

We seem to have a preoccupation with our small children's genitals in North American culture. We want them to be cosmetically perfect from babyhood according to our needs not theirs. Then we often teach them to feel shame for being naked in toddlerhood. Simultaneously we prefer they get no pleasure from them until they are adults and shame them for touching themselves. I don't always understand.

I don't agree with every party line of MDC either but I do find this place a fine forum for reading and sharing wisdom. I hope you will stay.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

You know what upsets me?
That i didn't read into what this site was about before asking my question
If i would have known that you were all anti-circ and that i would have been bombarded with information that is not going to help me in the future because im unable to have any future children, then i would have never signed up.


----------



## Jaydens_mom

my mother was informed by my family doctor ( the same one that circumcised my son ) back when my brother was still in her womb (18 1/2 years ago ) that an uncircumcised penis required TONS of extra care. She only told me what she still knew to be true. Obviously it has been medically proven wrong since then.. but there are tons of older mothers out there that likely don't know that and still think what they were told 18 years ago is true.


----------



## PuppyFluffer

There has been excellent information shared on this discussion as well as some deviations that weren't necessary.

I am unable to review this thread properly at the moment due to "real life" but I will be back this evening to do so.

For the time being, I am going to close the discussion.


----------

