# Someone just passed judgement on me and made me angry



## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

For background, I don't know the person well. He was a friend of a guy I knew in high school. He found me on facebook. The past couple weeks he's randomly said hello and such. So, there is no friendship really developed there.

However, today, he asked me how my day was. I told him I was decluttering the past couple days. I told him we're selling our crib and it was never used because we co sleep. He asks co sleep? I explain, family bed, we all sleep together in the same bed. Now, he has no children, is not married, and is 36 years old, but he has a sister who has children and he lives in Beaverton, Oregon, what I see as a progressive area of the US. So I say I am surprised he has never heard of co sleeping or other non mainstream parenting styles especially since he has told me he wants children and I can't imagine wanting children and having never given thought to how you would raise them. He says, he thinks sleeping with your kids will mess them up and he doesn't approve. I was shocked and insulted and I said to him, so you think I'm messing up my kids because I sleep with them at night? And he says, I won't tell you how to raise your kids, I just thinks it's wrong. So I say, well, if that's how you feel, then we can't be friends. I'm so angry. Am I even being rational? I feel like he knows nothing about parenting and how dare he judge me and essentially call me a bad parent (I haven't even seen him since I was 18 years old).







:


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
And he says, I won't tell you how to raise your kids, I just thinks it's wrong. So I say, well, if that's how you feel, then we can't be friends. I'm so angry. Am I even being rational?


I think you are overreacting a bit. Do all of your friends need to support cosleeping? Does it matter that he thinks you are wrong? When he has kids, he may very well end up with different ideas about proper parenting.

I don't share much about our sleeping arrangements unless I know someone pretty darn well.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I feel like he knows nothing about parenting and how dare he judge me and essentially call me a bad parent (I haven't even seen him since I was 18 years old).







:

You have not seen him since you were 18, why do you care what he thinks? If you believe without a doubt that bed sharing does not cause harm, who cares what some guy from your past believes.

ohh, your girls are beautiful.


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## La Sombra (Sep 27, 2007)

That would make me furious to, if only because one of my super pet-peeves is people who are very opinionated about things which they know little about. However, I'd say because he was never a real friend anyway that you forget about it. It's no big deal. You got in touch with a guy you used to know but then realized he was a jerk so whatever. You don't need to have a big argument with him, you don't need to convince him that he's wrong. Some people are just like this. I say, un-friend him or whatever and just totally let it go. You know that your arrangement is happy and works for your family so who cares what some random dude that doesn't even have children thinks!


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## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

TBH, I never gave a thought to many things related to child rearing until I suddenly had one on the way. I was 35. Lots of people give parenting lots of thought ahead of time, and others cram for it like a final exam in the few months before parenthood.

I think you are over reacting a bit too. It shouldn't matter what this virtual stranger thinks, esp since he isn't a parent. But on the other hand, this could be viewed as an opportunity to enlighten him a bit. He may choose to ignore whatever you say, but it shouldn't be an adversarial thing. If I were in the situation it would have to be an agree to disagree thing. I would also have said I take offense and feel insulted and asked if that was his intent. He probably would have felt like a bit of an idiot if you had said so. Honestly, I don't think that someone who is not a parent would have an influence on me like that. He's not a parent, so what does he know?

**I don't intend that to hurt any of the wonderful mama's and papa's to be that are here, but everyone knows that what you think you know before parenthood is subject to much change after parenthood.**

And FTR, sure there are lots of progressive people here in the PNW, but you can still find plenty of less progressive people around. Unfortunately not everyone out here is completely enlightened yet.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Yeah, I know my emotional reaction to what he said was stronger than it ought to have been.

What bothered me the most was how he seemed to be putting me down personally, because I cannot separate the fact that I'm a mom from the rest of myself. When he insulted the way I parent, I took that as a personal attack on my morals/values as a person.

His opinion of parenting really doesn't matter to me. I think I was just shocked by his statement, and offended.

I'm sure I'll get over it and of course his, or anyone else's opinion, would never deter me from raising my daughters in a way I feel is best for us.


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

I'd be po'd for sure! And knowing me I would totally put stuff out there for him to read, LIKE THE BENEFITS OF COSLEEPING/BEDSHARING! Perhaps his opinion needs some scientific research to shed some light! Ok, sorry that's just me, I would dwell on it for awhile, give him some crap about how wrong he is, and move on!


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I think it can be hard to remember that to the mainstream world...we're weird









Not that it matters, but maybe that helps with perspective. And IMO, flying off the handle only helps cement that belief...not encourage a progression towards potentially altering their viewpoint.

And, FWIW, I'd be defensive too 'off the cuff'


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Oy! I just had to put him on ignore. I logged back on messenger to see if a friend was on, and there was an offline message from him.

This is how it went down:
I said (1/6/2009 4:01:22 PM): I sold the crib my mom INSISTED on buying right after Abigail was born, even though she knows we co sleep.
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:02:44 PM): co sleep?
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:02:53 PM): we all sleep in the same bed I sleep with my arms wrapped around my babies ever since they were born
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:04:29 PM): hmmm....um ok :/
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:06:20 PM): Have you never heard of co sleeping? or attachment parenting?
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:09:16 PM): I don't agree with that sort of sleeping arrangment. I think it really messes up the kids
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:09:41 PM): wow, so you're telling me I'm messing up my kids?
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:10:02 PM): its not a discussion we should have. You can raise your kids however you wish. I would just never do that
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:11:04 PM): That is really offensive and I'm insulted because I cannot separate my parenting choices from who I am.

At this point I logged off to go chase a toddler.....

when I log back on I see this offline message from him....

he wrote (1/6/2009 4:11:29 PM): I'll go ahead and delete you. Clearly you have some issues that are pretty intense. I make one comment, and you run off. Might indicate why you have issues with your husbands and others. Adios


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## lizzylou (Jul 11, 2006)

What's the point in being offended? I would have used the opportunity to educate him about all the benefits of co-sleeping.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Good bye, good riddance. I am on your side.

Quite frankly, I dont want to hear from anyone who doesnt have kids. Other parents I can deal with, not know it alls without any ties to anyone else, ya know?!!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I wasn't really given an opportunity to educate him. He asked what it was, when I explained briefly, he said we shouldn't discuss it, then I had to chase a toddler and when I get back he has said he deleted me and then made an even more baffling and offensive comment = because apparently logging off to tend to my children means I have intense issues.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It sounds to me like he was caught off guard. He doesn't have kids of his own, and he's never heard of co-sleeping before. He just went with the 'default' idea that "babies belong in their own cribs" without giving it much thought. His sister's kids probably sleep in their own beds, or if they don't, he's not aware of it.

From reading the discussion you posted, it sounds like both of you got defensive and over-reacted. I would have responded to such a discussion with a bunch of online links about cosleeping, or if I was too busy, a promise to send him some links ASAP.

It might be too late to save this particular "virtual friendship", but you can still learn from the interaction and change how you react if something similar happens in the future. But if he hasn't deleted you yet, you might want to email him and apologize for over reacting and include some links about co-sleeping- not to change his mind or make him co-sleep with any future kids he might have, but just so he can be more open and understand that this IS a valid way to raise babies even if it's beyond his comfort level.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Do all of your friends need to support cosleeping? Does it matter that he thinks you are wrong?

No, not all my friends have the same views of parenting as I do. And that's fine with me.

What bothered me was his all encompassing statement that he thinks what I do is wrong and that what I am doing is messing up my kids. That is rude and disrespectful.

and in the long run, no, it doesn't matter if he thinks I am wrong.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AndrewsMother* 
why do you care what he thinks?

ohh, your girls are beautiful.

I guess I really don't care what he thinks, but I don't like being told I'm messing up my kids.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lizzylou* 
What's the point in being offended?

From a logical standpoint, there is no point.
My reaction was emotional.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I
...but you can still learn from the interaction and change how you react if something similar happens in the future.

In my head, I would like to think I could react less emotionally. But all my life I've been a very emotional person. I don't think that's good or bad, it's just the way I am. I think a large part of why I took it personally is because prior to this, he'd seem non-judgmental in general and I didn't expect that kind of a comment from him.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I guess I really don't care what he thinks, but I don't like being told I'm messing up my kids.

he has never met your children, how would he know if they are or are not messed up? If this was a real life friend who saw you on a daily basis there would be a reason to feel slighted.

This young man is reacting to information that he has learned from mainstream media, mainstream parents and other sources. He made an uninformed statement and in my book he has little if no credibility on the subject so why waste precious energy.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AndrewsMother* 
he has never met your children, how would he know if they are or are not messed up? If this was a real life friend who saw you on a daily basis there would be a reason to feel slighted.

This young man is reacting to information that he has learned from mainstream media, mainstream parents and other sources. He made an uninformed statement and in my book he has little if no credibility on the subject so why waste precious energy.

I know, you're right, no reason to waste precious energy.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Ok- you sound like you are past this already but I would like to echo Ruthla and say that this could be a good learning opportunity for future interactions. As soon as he said "messes up the kids" I would have changed the topic or found an excuse to leave if I was becoming defensive. Something I have been learning- try not to take anything personally and believe the best of people's intentions. Not that I always accomplish this but people mostly don't mean to offend or cause problems with their words. Think of all the times you "put your foot in your mouth"- no harm intended but felt badly about how it came across. I think your friend was stating an opinion without thinking too much about it. Then when you reacted defensively felt like he had to become defensive also. Just my 2 cents.


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## mamanurse (Jan 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I explain, family bed, we all sleep together in the same bed. Now, he has no children, is not married, and is 36 years old, but he has a sister who has children and he lives in *Beaverton, Oregon*, what I see as a progressive area of the US. So I say I am surprised he has never heard of co sleeping or other non mainstream parenting styles especially since he has told me he wants children and I can't imagine wanting children and having never given thought to how you would raise them. He says, he thinks sleeping with your kids will mess them up and he doesn't approve.

That sucks he made such a hurtful statement. It's hard when people without kids pass judgment on those who have BTDT. I had not heard of co-sleeping before I had children, but probably would not have made such a narrow statement.

FWIW, I don't consider Beaverton progressive. Portland is, but once you step outside of the city limits it's not nearly as crunchy.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Well clearly you didn't fly off the handle so...delete away deary!

LOL

No harm done, how frustrating! And he's not much of a friend if he's deleting YOU that fast...I mean how big of a deal is it for OL friends to not agree on things like parenting?

I've got facebook friends that I don't see eye to eye with...which is why we are JUST facebook friends LOLOL

Live and learn, his loss...right?


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Thank you... he sent me a few messages on facebook, I apologized for overreacting. He said I don't know everything about parenting, that I have a lot to learn, I agreed, and explained I logged out quickly not just because I wanted to avoid saying something unhelpful, but because I needed to go, and he said, good luck and adios. sigh.
I know it doesn't really matter, but I guess I just expect people to be kind, fair, compassionate, willing to talk, but he was none of these. And I think that outside of the word 'wow', nothing I ever said was an over reaction, my question was more of an attempt to understand. His comments seemed to only want to cause hurt and to criticize and put me down.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Oh, and 3 times he sent me a facebook message, he concluded with good luck, you'll need it.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

This was through facebook chat, or on the wall etc? If it was in "public", I would start joining all sorts of holistic type groups that talk about having a family bed. That way it's all over your facebook, and there are nice links that anyone who cares to can look at.

If it was through their chat, well, honestly I'd do the same thing.

FB is so so so WEIRD. I was friended today by a guy who lived down the hall from me freshman year...the only thing we knew about each other is that we borrowed his car to go to the Spaghetti Factory one night, and one of my friends absolutely adored him. I never saw him after we left that dorm! But now if I friend him, he'll see the stuff I put out there for my GOOD friends. Too strange.

I got back in touch with an old old friend that had gotten kind of strange the last couple years we knew each other...I always sort of was in luv with him and I think he was with me, but the timing was always off. I had a very long "bad boy" phase and he was a very nice guy, and he gave up on me and started being jerky. Then he disappeared, my latest bad boy finally pushed me over the edge of that phase, I met a Nice Boy and married him. And this guy just can't deal with the fact that he had written me off JUST before that happened...so we had a 2 minute "chat" the other night, and, no lie, this is what he asked me first off..."so your life seems pretty good now...what did you do to dig yourself out of the hole you were in the last time I saw you in real life?"

I wasn't in a hole, I was dating a doofus and talking about it. I wasn't in a hole, I was broke and struggling in my own business. He considered all of that to be "negative" and he'd been in therapy for years and years and decided that my saying it wasn't bad was "denial" blah blah blah.

So I friend him, hoping the years have changed us, but he started off by judging me completely, and putting me on the defensive.

This guy you used to know...you barely know him but by friending him you've opened your life to him. You've talked about, in a way, *who you sleep with*, which isn't something another person might do. It's totally fine and traditional and NORMAL, but to him it's probably salacious and all that...

I think we should all have two facebooks...one for the casual types and one for the true friends.









I'm sorry for the novel, it was obviously "up" for me too!


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
I think we should all have two facebooks...one for the casual types and one for the true friends.









Hear Hear!


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## MAveggiemom (Feb 26, 2008)

Okay, some of you may not agree, but I think it DOES matter what this guy thinks. He represents part of mainstream American parenting culture (even if he's not a parent yet). The unfortunate truth is that MOST people completely wing it when it comes to parenting. They give no thought whatsoever to their choices and they make the rules up as they go along. Parenting is the most important job any of us will ever have, and most people don't give a second thought to their goals or professional development. Instead of exploring options, weighing pros and cons, and deciding what is the best choice for their family, they allow the media to scare them and they let their pediatricians and Babies R Us dictate their parenting choices. Americans like to rely on products to raise their kids, and this is especially true at night. The crib has been so deeply ingrained in our culture as the "normal" way for babies to sleep, that most people don't even FATHOM that it's completely unnatural.

That's why it MATTERS what this guy thinks. His knee-jerk reaction and baseless opinion is so typical of that fly-by-night parenting attitude. We on this forum make parenting choices that are different from mainstream American culture because we believe those choices are better for our kids' physical and emotional well-being. We THOUGHT about things and made an intentional choice to do it the way we do it. We are (ideally) open to new ideas and new ways of doing things, we evaluate our choices and modify them as our kids grow and as their needs change. For a lot of parents, that evaluation and modification stops at "He's outgrown the crib so we better buy him a new race car toddler bed when they go on sale next week". I'm sorry to sound so cynical, but I've worked with kids my entire adult life as a teacher and camp director, and I see it all the time. Kids have gadgets instead of guidance.

I'm going on a tangent, but my point is this: We should NOT be quiet shy about our choices. They are OUR choices, and we have no more right to force them on others than others have to force a crib on us. However, the only way to fight against the media/medical/commercial parenting culture is to be a shining example of a better way. If Jane is pregnant and meets lots of "normal", happy co-sleeping families, she may consider co-sleeping (or breastfeeding, or not circumcising, etc.). If Jane is pregnant and meets only rash, defensive co-sleeping parents she will likely run to the store to buy the fanciest crib they have because she sure as hell doesn't want to end up like THAT. Provide food for thought in a friendly way, instead of hiding or getting defensive.

Educate. Just like you would breastfeed anywhere and everywhere, shout it from the rooftops that your kids sleep in your bed and that it doesn't mess any of you up. Point out that co-sleeping is THE NORM for humans historically, and even today in most parts of the world. Point out that famous historical figures almost surely co-slept since cribs are a relatively new invention. Point out that a dog breeder wouldn't THINK of separating newborn puppies from their mother for more than a few minutes, and yet they place their newborn human (who is far more helpless than a puppy) in a cage by themselves for up to 12 hours out of 24.

If we ever hope to see our choices recognized as within the realm of normal, healthy parenting practices by the mainstream, then we need to lead the way with our example. I'm vegan and I've found that homemade chocolate chip cookies are my most powerful evangelical tool.  Our healthy, secure, smiling kids are our strongest advertisements for co-sleeping.

So, to the OP, no, it doesn't matter what this guy thinks of your parenting practices on an individual level. You shouldn't waste any energy worrying about it. But it DOES matter what he thinks in a global way, and you should spend your energy pleasantly educating him about it.

Sorry for the tangent. We had a lot of guests over the holidays and I got very used to diplomatically explaining our lack of a crib, so I'm all fired up about the issue now!!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
This was through facebook chat, or on the wall etc?
If it was through their chat, well, honestly I'd do the same thing.

The messages he sent me after deleting me from the friend list were through facebook private messages, so not for anyone else but me to see.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
Spaghetti Factory

I LOVE that place. (and miss it)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
This guy you used to know...you barely know him but by friending him you've opened your life to him. You've talked about, in a way, *who you sleep with*, which isn't something another person might do. It's totally fine and traditional and NORMAL, but to him it's probably salacious and all that...

And this is another character trait of mine. Being too open. As a friend of mine says, I wear my heart on my sleeve and am too honest.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MAveggiemom* 

So,no, it doesn't matter what this guy thinks of your parenting practices on an individual level. You shouldn't waste any energy worrying about it. But it DOES matter what he thinks in a global way, and you should spend your energy pleasantly educating him about it.

Sorry for the tangent. We had a lot of guests over the holidays and I got very used to diplomatically explaining our lack of a crib, so I'm all fired up about the issue now!!

You're right. Educating is the best way. But at this point in time, any further contact I make with him may be seen as stalking.

However, if you (or anyone else) have some really awesome links about co sleeping I can add those links to my facebook page. My personal knowledge about co sleeping came when I borrowed a book from my midwife's library when I was pregnant with Abigail. The book was called 'The Family Bed' and prior to that I always thought that putting babies in cribs seemed odd, but it was all I had seen. When I read that book, I kept nodding my head and was pleased to see someone else felt like I did.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Honestly, I do think you overreacted, but on the other hand his last sentence about having trouble with husbands or whatever was off the chart rude.

I didn't have a kid till I was in my mid 30s, and I SWORE I would never co-sleep. Swore up and down. My dd had other plans. People sometimes think one thing before they're faced with a situation where it becomes relevant, and then learn they're wrong.


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

Haven't read the whole thing but...

Honestly DH and I discussed basic parenting issues and how we would like to raise our children, but until we actually were pregnant and then HAD a baby, all the nitty gritty details didn't come up.
And even then I didn't think bf'ing beyond a year, co-sleeping, GD, AP etc. was relevant. I wouldn't be too hard on him and I certainly wouldn't overreact and end a friendship over it.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Little grey mare* 
I wouldn't be too hard on him and I certainly wouldn't overreact and end a friendship over it.

Well, first of all, there wasn't much of a friendship there to begin with. And what it comes down to wasn't so much a difference of opinion, but the rude way he treated me and put me down, and then the sarcastic condescending manner he wrote to me in those final messages he sent me simply confirmed for me he is not the kind of person who would make a good friend.

So, anyone have any good links about co sleeping?


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## Sasharna (Nov 19, 2008)

He sounds like the sort of person who would be hurtful to have around. It is true that you might have been a more effective advocate of cosleeping if you'd been more calm, but I can't blame you for being so hurt. He was both harsh and rude... and he attacked you!

Honestly, I wouldn't bother trying to sow any seeds with this person--he's not fertile ground. I have the feeling that someone who is as outspoken and instantly judgmental as this guy wouldn't be at all moved to consider the merits of your parenting style even if you were 100% perfect in your approach. If someone spoke to me in the way this guy spoke to you, I would be relieved to see him go. There will be plenty of other opportunities to make a positive difference with people who are open to hearing new information.


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

Meh. I probably wouldn't waste any more time on him.


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## Close2Me (Dec 9, 2008)

spoken like a self-centered bachelor


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Gee, I wonder why nobody's snapped him up?


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

:


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

I wasn't really given an opportunity to educate him. He asked what it was, when I explained briefly, he said we shouldn't discuss it
Um, no, wait a minute. Let's look at the actual conversation:

Quote:

he wrote (1/6/2009 4:02:44 PM): co sleep?
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:02:53 PM): we all sleep in the same bed I sleep with my arms wrapped around my babies ever since they were born
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:04:29 PM): hmmm....um ok :/
I wrote (1/6/2009 4:06:20 PM): Have you never heard of co sleeping? or attachment parenting?
he wrote (1/6/2009 4:09:16 PM): I don't agree with that sort of sleeping arrangment. I think it really messes up the kids
He asked what it was, you explained briefly, he expressed some vague doubt, you said "Have you never heard of it?" (easily read as, "What's wrong with you? Are you stupid or something?"), and THEN he expressed his disagreement.

I understand why your feelings are hurt, and I agree that he was excessively critical given his lack of knowledge on the subject and that it was ridiculous for him to jump from that to saying you have such serious issues that he can't speak to you anymore. But I don't understand why everyone on this thread seems to think he was the only one being sarcastic and condescending. Your "Have you never heard of co sleeping?" can easily be interpreted that way, esp. in the context of his having just expressed puzzlement at the term.

My response to "hmmm....um ok :/" would be a few facts about why I think it's a good idea. And if he still said, "I think it really messes up the kids," my response would be, "Why?" I think you have to know where a person's coming from with that before you really know what's going on.

You know, I grew up in a La Leche League family and wanted to be a mother all my life and majored in developmental psychology, but until I was 27 (4 years before my son was born) I thought the family bed was a weird idea and bound to create insecure, babyish children with sexually frustrated parents. _The Family Bed_ came to me in a box of free books and changed my mind! It wasn't until I was pregnant and talking with my mom about parenting infants that I learned that she and my aunts had done various degrees of co-sleeping with their babies--my only sibling weaned when I was in kindergarten, and because my family is spread out I saw my cousins only in visiting arrangements where I figured they were sleeping with their parents due to lack of beds--I had no idea! So a person can be giving lots of thought to how to raise children and can have babies in the family and still have inaccurate ideas about co-sleeping.









It sounds like this friendship is broken and wasn't that important in the first place, but I hope you can do better in the future. Try to respond with love and listening before you get offended.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I guess we interpret words differently.

I thought asking him, Have you never heard of it? as a way to find out if he'd heard of it and decided he was against or, or if he had simply never heard of it.

I intended and see no condescension in that question.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

yeah, it would make me mad too--the implication is you're screwing up your kid(s)!!! and that's just not a nice thing to say to someone, even if you think it. but sadly, it's not surprising that he feels this way. that's the general cultural idea, and if you aren't exposed to anything else, it would be hard to feel positively about co-sleeping, i'd think. i used to think it was a bit strange myself









i agree with PPs, once he has kids it's a whole other ballgame!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 

So, anyone have any good links about co sleeping?

I'm quoting myself









because I'm still wondering.... if anyone has good links about co sleeping or attachment parenting that lead to articles that people would read that I can post in myspace or facebook.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Actually, you can limit who sees what on your facebook profile. You can have your closest friends see the whole thing and your aquaintances see only certain things. It's very easy to do.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Freud* 
Actually, you can limit who sees what on your face book profile. You can have your closest friends see the whole thing and your acquaintances see only certain things. It's very easy to do.

This is not a concern of mine.

I want links that I can post on my face book and my space that would be helpful in educating other people on attachment parenting and co sleeping.

I want people to see them.

I know well enough how to change my settings. That is not what I was asking.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Well, it is hard - because you don't want or need to hide your parenting choices. There is an element of being able to educate people, to make alternative parenting choices seem like a rational option for people yet to make these decisions. HOWEVER, I don't find it effective to respond to a new relationship's first "what's up" type conversations with any homebirth or atheist comments. I am happy and proud of both of those parts of my life, but many people will write you right off as a wacko if you lead with no vax or no circ or any number of other things that most of MDC understands differently than the mainstream.

One, he is an acquaintance. I don't understand why bringing up cosleeping in the first two sentences was done. Nothing wrong with it (even though I didn't personally cosleep with mine, and am not a big supporter though I agree with your right to parent however you like) but it will turn people off if we lead with alternative stuff before we strengthen the relationship a bit. What might make him think "kooky...." in the first week might be something he looked into further if he knew you better, like no vax or homebirth or any number of other things we do here on MDC.

Two, he doesn't even have kids yet. Of course he hasn't heard or thought about cosleeping. That doesn't mean he hasn't thought about parenting, but honestly I live in a progressive, liberal area (just outside Seattle), worked in the child care field for years, took classes, read parenting books, went many years to the Washington Association for the Education of Young Children conferences, was greatly looking forward to parenting and did a LOT of reading on it - and never knew about no vax, no circ, cosleep, extended nursing, or that people in this day and age had homebirths. No idea. I don't think it makes him ignorant. He was rude - but I think the phrasing you used "you've never heard of cosleeping?" could be construed as any educated or intelligent person would have. I'm not saying that is how you meant it, just that that is how he may have taken it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I don't share much about our sleeping arrangements unless I know someone pretty darn well.

This is what I think too. My "not new" friends know that I homebirthed, partially vax, am a secular humanist, etc. But I don't lead with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
I cannot separate the fact that I'm a mom from the rest of myself. When he insulted the way I parent, I took that as a personal attack on my morals/values as a person.

They were just talking about this on Oprah this week! Something about Eckhart Tolle's book (is it New Earth?) speaking about separating who we are from being a mom.

I think he was insulting in his comments. I think he was shocked by info that was new - and to him, really out there. But he doesn't know anything about it. If he looked into it, he may still decide it isn't for him, but might be more understanding of why some people do it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
At this point I logged off to go chase a toddler.....

when I log back on I see this offline message from him....

he wrote (1/6/2009 4:11:29 PM): I'll go ahead and delete you. Clearly you have some issues that are pretty intense. I make one comment, and you run off. Might indicate why you have issues with your husbands and others. Adios

But you didn't tell him you had to go tend to kids. You had a negative back and forth via facebook, then logged off right after without explanation. At least that is how I'm reading it. I might have tried to veer the conversation in a different way from the very beginning, but mentioning that you didn't know anything about it, or were originally wary too before learning more, and offering a good website if he was interested might have worked better.

I do agree with you that he was rude. Absolutely. But I think you caught him off guard by being so open with intimate or personal information so early in the reissue of the relationship.

This actually happened to me a year or two ago. I called a high school friend whom I hadn't seen in many years. She mentioned - in a three minute phone conversation - that she and her dp NEVER left their kids. That the four of them did EVERYTHING together except work and school. All social activities. No date nights for her and her dp. She didn't come to a class get together because the invite was for her and her dp, not the kids. Their kids are teenagers. I was taken aback. I was actually speechless. I wasn't rude, but quickly told her to take care and got off the phone. Then mentally wrote off any further attempts at renewing our friendship - as we are just very different, so different that I don't think we could work around it. I have friends who are super religious, Republican, and other things that are opposite of my own personal choices - but we do fine. Just something about never leaving your kids really struck me poorly. She called me the next day and apologized for being so abrupt and we had a nice conversation. Are facebook friends now, but still haven't gotten together. But we are friendly, and agree to disagree on how we parent.

I think you had an emotional reaction, as did he. I think you were both surprised at the other. I think it is hard to read intention in print. But I do think he was rude (as I tell my kids "you can think it without saying it out loud") and that since you two weren't great friends before anyway, I'd just let it go.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I don't understand why bringing up co sleeping in the first two sentences was done.

Well, the part I quoted was not the first two sentences of our conversation that day. I only showed the part of the conversation related to the topic of this thread. This was not our first conversation by far either!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
Two, he doesn't even have kids yet. Of course he hasn't heard or thought about co sleeping.

He was rude - but I think the phrasing you used "you've never heard of cosleeping?" could be construed as any educated or intelligent person would have. I'm not saying that is how you meant it, just that that is how he may have taken it.

I would never assume that because someone has no children that they know nothing about parenting. He has in previous conversations gone on and on and on about his nieces and nephews and shared pics of himself with them, and talked about what an involved uncle he is. He also had talked about how very much he wants to have children and that it's in his 'plan' to have them someday. From previous discussions, he seemed interested in the parenting topic.

And I understand you know my intent with the question was simply out of wanting to know the answer. I'm sorry some people would interpret that as insulting, but that was clearly not my intent.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
But you didn't tell him you had to go tend to kids. You had a negative back and forth via facebook, then logged off right after without explanation. At least that is how I'm reading it.

The logging off of messenger happened _*first*_.
He deleted me from his messenger, but then wrote to me through the face book *after.*
At that point, his comments on face book were negative, mine were apologetic.

In previous conversations, I had told him, more than once, that I frequently am away from my computer and that I frequently log off to attend to my children's needs, so if that ever happened, to not be offended.
I had explained that I don't always have time to type what is happening and I will often just log out without explanation.
He had said he understood and would take no offense if that ever happened (which has happened on more than one occasion).

I really feel that he was using my logging off and my co sleeping as a weak excuse to end the friendship because he found out I was married (which I did tell him in our very first conversation). He confessed early on that he'd had a crush on my in high school. I am highly suspecting he was just looking for an excuse to cut it off since he realized he wouldn't 'have a shot' at me.


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## ChichosMama (Aug 20, 2004)

I didn't read through all of this, but I obviously read your initial post.
The guy is an idiot. My brother and I both co-slept with our parents(infact my mom was an OG AP). My brother is 19, played football so well that when he left the team bc the coach was an idiot the coach beeged him to comeback, he started wrestling his senior year and went to CIF(our state championship), is extremely smart, has had much luck with the ladies, and is currently in college to be a firefighter and a fire explorer for AFD. OH MY FECK he is SOOOO messed up. I can go on about myself, but Im a little more that biased. lmao.
That guy is 36 and on facebook. awesome. My brother doesn't even participate in such things(although I do lol).
SO again. The guys an idiot and you rule.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

for cosleeping links try

Attachment Parenting International
Dr. James McKenna, Notre Dame U
Dr. Jay Gordon
Dr. William Sears askdrsears.com


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
for cosleeping links try

Attachment Parenting International
Dr. James McKenna, Notre Dame U
Dr. Jay Gordon
Dr. William Sears askdrsears.com


Thank you!







I will look into those.

Any one else have more?


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/handout1.asp

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...eping-Benefits

I think that it is so easy to have opinions on parenting when you aren't yet a parent. I think he might remember this brief conversation when one day his partner brings the baby into the bed so that everyone is finally happy.

He might hang his head in shame to remember how easily he judged. Goodness knows I have done that when I finally became a parent.

And really, you learned something about him and you learned maybe you can educate people on co-sleeping. It is so easy to think everyone does it or at least has heard of it and understands it is a valid personal choice. Obviously not.

Take care and I hope some more links are provided for you.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I guess I don't understand

1) why you are even spending time chatting on the internet with someone you know nothing about, who has only the vaguest connection to your life and nothing in common with you, and

2) why you would even care what some stranger thinks about your parenting style?


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplemoon* 
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/handout1.asp

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...eping-Benefits

Take care and I hope some more links are provided for you.

Thank you very much for the additional links. All links provided are being put to good use.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 

1) why you are even spending time chatting on the internet with someone you know nothing about, who has only the vaguest connection to your life and nothing in common with you, and

2) why you would even care what some stranger thinks about your parenting style?

1) I'm a social person. I wouldn't know how much I have in common with anyone if we never talked.

2) First, he's not a stranger. Not close, but I wouldn't call him a stranger. In the end, I don't care what he thinks about my parenting style. However, in the larges scheme of things, I would have hoped to have educated him and had hoped he would have had an open mind, in the off chance he may someday have children of his own. The more a person knows, the more options they have.


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## brennatsi (Jan 22, 2008)

In the future, when faced with someone who doesn't have kids, just say, "oh, you'll understand when you have children- ha ha ha!" and move on. If they persist, they are either being jerky or looking for education and you can decide if you want to pursue the conversation. Most of our friends don't have children. I feel like, even when they seem wigged out, I am helping to make cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, etc, a little more normal to them. For their future babies' sakes!


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## Softmama (Jun 10, 2003)

I realize at this point you are only looking for links for your facebook, and I have none to offer. but i just wanted to say that holy cow this man is RUDE and I would have been offended too. Much more so by that remark about you having intense issues and having problems with husbands. that is way out of bounds in my opinion. I would have just been stunned.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

This guy on FB - did it never occur to you after him making a comment like that, that maybe he had suffered some degree of abuse as a child?

It seems like such a weird thing to say that it sounds like what you are doing hit a raw nerve for him.

I'm not saying for him it was in the family setting necessarily, but maybe at school a teacher touched him or something and that has caused him to be wary of everything where there is a possibility/opportunity for something out-of-the-ordinary to happen.

It almost sounded like he was saying he was screwed up?

Anyway, onto support for co-sleeping:

Deborah Jackson "Three in a Bed".

A fantastic book all about co-sleeping and how billions of families all over the world co-sleep (ie, China, India and Africa) because they don't have a choice - they only have one room!

After reading this book, I went from feeling a failure having never got DD to sleep in the crib, to feeling I had saved her from life-altering cruelty.

Finally, I wouldn't open up your heart to strangers, nice to be trusting but be prepared to get trampled upon.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brennatsi* 
In the future, when faced with someone who doesn't have kids, just say, "oh, you'll understand when you have children- ha ha ha!" and move on. If they persist, they are either being jerky or looking for education and you can decide if you want to pursue the conversation.

Thanks for the advice. I will try that if it ever comes up again in a similar situation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlicesMama* 
This guy on FB - did it never occur to you after him making a comment like that, that maybe he had suffered some degree of abuse as a child?

It seems like such a weird thing to say that it sounds like what you are doing hit a raw nerve for him.

I'm not saying for him it was in the family setting necessarily, but maybe at school a teacher touched him or something and that has caused him to be wary of everything where there is a possibility/opportunity for something out-of-the-ordinary to happen.

It almost sounded like he was saying he was screwed up?

It's funny, but for a brief second, that thought actually occurred to me, but not to the extent of your last statement.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Softmama* 
I realize at this point you are only looking for links for your facebook, and I have none to offer. but i just wanted to say that holy cow this man is RUDE and I would have been offended too. Much more so by that remark about you having intense issues and having problems with husbands. that is way out of bounds in my opinion. I would have just been stunned.

Thank you, it's nice to have confirmation that he was rude and out of line. Sometimes I just expect the best of everyone and overlook anything wrong other people do because I don't like to be mean.


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## Carter'sMommy (Jan 11, 2009)

Honestly I had WAY different parenting ideas before I had my son...and you don't really know what works for you until you are in that situation.

But sadly I can think of times where I questioned someone's parenting style based on what I "thought" I would do as a parent.

Just take people who haven't had kids ideas with a grain of salt...I know my beliefs have totally changed!


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## PaigeC (Nov 25, 2008)

I don't know if this was posted already but this is my favorite site when people freak out that I plan to co-sleep:

http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/index.html

I however, have to disagree with the pp who said to say they would understand when they have kids. I can tell you as someone who went through 9 years of infertility this statement is so so hurtful. Sometimes people don't have kids and it isn't by choice and it doesn't mean they don't know anything about parenting. I've been an AP parent/homeschooling advocate for 16 years - but some people really cut me down just because I wasn't blessed with kids. Kinda sucked. Just FYI.


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## MeadowAndColtsMama (Oct 12, 2008)

I didn't read every post, but... people can just be so weird sometimes. Like there is anything in the world more natural than sleeping with your little ones. We co-slept totally 'til ds was about 5, dd less time but she's still in our bed part of the night almost always. Now I'm due in a couple weeks with ds2 and my mom asks "Where are planning to have him sleep at first? You know, while he's so tiny?" I'm like "Uh, not anywhere without me, obviously!" And we are super close, and she KNOWS we co-sleep. But sometimes people just don't think. Hello, I managed to not roll over on my last 2 kids! I guess I'll do it again. So, I would forget this guy, as you said he's not even a PARENT and therefore has NO framework for what he's talking about. Forget about him! You are right.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
In previous conversations, I had told him, more than once, that I frequently am away from my computer and that I frequently log off to attend to my children's needs, so if that ever happened, to not be offended.


I totally forgot to talk about this! The actual logging off would get to me too. If my son is having an immediate problem, I just go. I don't log off, I don't type BRB if I'm on IM, I just go and explain when I come back... "oh sorry I disappeared, boy-o whatever whatever'd". Sometimes if it takes ages and the person is gone I'll send a quick email.

But taking the time to log off to go tend to something quickly seems like an extra, unnecessary step, and that might have gotten to him too. Then again, I'm logged into gmail and one or two message boards all day, no matter what else I might be doing in the house. I just never log out of things during the day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
And this is another character trait of mine. Being too open. As a friend of mine says, I wear my heart on my sleeve and am too honest.

Me too. And it's hurt me in the past.

On FB I'm a member of Holistic Family Movement. Promotes everything we like here at mothering.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaigeC* 
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/index.html
I however, have to disagree with the pp who said to say they would understand when they have kids. I can tell you as someone who went through 9 years of infertility this statement is so so hurtful. Sometimes people don't have kids and it isn't by choice and it doesn't mean they don't know anything about parenting. I've been an AP parent/homeschooling advocate for 16 years - but some people really cut me down just because I wasn't blessed with kids. Kinda sucked. Just FYI.









Thanks for the link. I've added it, as well as the others, to my face book profile. Guess where? Under my education and work section.
















Thank you also for the different perspective. I really couldn't see myself making a comment like that anyway, although I considered it in my head. It's very true that a person doesn't need to be a parent to have knowledge about parenting techniques.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
On FB I'm a member of Holistic Family Movement. Promotes everything we like here at mothering.









I will have to join that.


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