# Burnt Out & Conflicted: Should I Night Wean DD?



## chrysalisDC (Dec 29, 2003)

Hello --

I am the full time at home mom of a wonderful, loving and active 13 month old. She was exclusively (more or less -- only took a bottle of EBM maybe 8-10 times) breastfed until 6 months when she slowly began to take to solids. She is amazing and I am convinced that alot of it has to do with breastfeeding and the fact that we are attachment-oriented parents.

She has made a nice transition into eating solids, although was slow to learn to like water and very slow to take to cow's milk when we introduced it to her just over one month ago.

We've since come to believe she may have an allergy to cow's milk due to contact rashes on her skin that we noticed after she's eaten yogurt / had milk. (No other allergic symptoms though, like the more common problems with stools, etc.) So, we have elected to keep her away from dairy for the time being. I am looking into giving her soy milk but I know that may be tough given her finicky eating history!

During the day, she takes solid foods but always seems to want to be "topped up" with some nursing afterwards. Regarding weaning, I am going the way of don't offer don't refuse...however, she has learned to be very assertive about wanting and requesting her nursing. She nurses around 5-6 times daily. I never predicted that I would be nursing at all let alone this much after 13 months! Is this uncommon for a baby of her age? It seems like a LOT to me!

Okay, so that is the "history" and here's the challenge: I am a believer in the philosophy of Attachment Parenting but I am becoming extremely burnt out. --- Here is where I am going to vent, because I need to, not because I am being ungrateful for my lovely healthy and sweet daughter --

I am starting to wonder why I am letting myself be so self-sacrificial because I am obviously burnt out and possibly beginning to resent how little I am able to take care of myself while I take care of her. I have tried to get organized and get schedules together for household tasks, time for me, etc. -- but that takes time! And I never have any extra! My husband has a demanding job too so I can't be sure he'll be able to help me as much as I'd like.

I have not gotten an uninterrupted night of sleep since she was born and am always the one to put her down to sleep because she is used to nursing to sleep. These days she wakes up 2-5 times nightly for short bursts of nursing before she rolls over and falls back to sleep -- not new. She has not tolerated even being in her crib (forget about sleeping there) since she was 3 months old and has been co-sleeping with us ever since.

She seems to need me more when she's teething and recently has seemed to become even clingier at night -- needing to literally wrap herself around me in a bear hug while she sleeps..she also doesn't seem to get as much comfort from her pacifier prefering instead to constantly have my breast in her mouth (even after she's finished nursing)...this is a new progression. She is adept now at communicating "No" (her word sounds more like "Na") when we try to comfort her back to sleep even for a moment without nursing by giving her back her paci or cuddling with her. She refuses and launches into an all out distress cry.

My back is sore from twisting into "feeding position" at night, I am exhausted during most days, since she doesn't have any predictable sleeping or napping or eating routine...I never know when my next shower or meal will be let alone any down time or rest time for myself will be. I miss time for me and evenings with my husband.

Sometimes I don't get a chance to change out of my night clothes until the afternoon! I feel like part of the joy of parenting is being eclipsed by the intensity of the experience...I look at mothers who haven't chosen extended breastfeeding or who have weaned their babies forcibly and sometimes envy the distance they have from the demands of motherhood. I am so in conflict.

All of this is wearing on me and I have thought seriously about trying to night wean her with the help of my husband. But, we both know this means letting her "cry it out," even if it is with the loving care of my husband while she is crying. It is wrenching to me to think that she is too little to understand why she is being deprived of her milk and I worry that letting her cry for me at night will undo the trust and security she has built up because I am normally so responsive to her when she needs me.

From what I can tell, I can't begin to night wean until I am ready to be hard core about it and achieve the end I am looking for (i.e. her not needing to nurse at night and back to sleep when she wakes at night) -- otherwise it will send conflicting and confusing messages and just get all of us upset.

Sometimes I wonder if she is just being a typical demanding toddler and "fussing" or does she truly truly need the milk to go to sleep? (She will fall asleep on her own in the stroller or car seat). I wonder if I have done us both a disservice by not being firmer in assuring she knows how to fall to sleep without always having her milk.

I am so tired some days because she won't nap much and I have had bad sleep the night before -- I feel that I am less effective during the day and have no energy left to give to her or my husband by the day's end. I am constantly feeling like I am just crawling from one day to the next, scraping by on the lowest amount of mental / physical / emotional energy possible.

Has anyone got advice or experience to share? How have stay at home moms (without the aid of helpers) who are nursing active, co-sleeping toddlers coped? I know it is finite and won't last forever, but I am not sure sometimes how I am going to make it through this period!

Thanks in advance for reading this long, rambling posting!


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## April (Aug 8, 2002)

Hi - I'm mentally sending you lots of sympathy right now...









Have you looked at Dr. Jay Gordon's website? There are some good tips for "gently" night-weaning your all-night nurser - I'm going to try and include the link.

http://www.drjaygordon.com/ap/sleep.htm


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## 4Marmalade (May 4, 2004)

I can totally relate to your post!! Unfortunately, I have no real advice as I am struggling with a lot of the same questions. What I can do is help you realize you are not alone.

I am a SAHM to a 19 month old ds (who is also amazing BTW







). I am still breastfeeding and enjoying it for the most part although I have made some changes to ensure that I still enjoy it. I originally followed the "don't offer, don't refuse" philosophy but from about 14-18 months ds becamse super demanding and was asking to nurse almost every hour. Plus he still nurses at night anywhere from 3-7 times. I was getting completely touched out and very frustrated. I really wanted to continue nursing but didn't know how I could survive and the thought of weaning was even more scary. I knew ds would not take to weaning very well and I didn't want it to be a traumatic thing for him. What I have done over the past 3 weeks was adopt a "don't offer, try to distract and if not successful with that then nurse him". We are now down to about 4-5 nursings throughout the day and it is actually amazing how little distraction it actually took. I find that sometimes ds asks when he has a moment in between activities and sees me available. Sometimes I can get away with just a cuddle and he's happy with that. Other times I offer a snack or drink. It has made a big difference and I can see myself continuing to nurse for much longer.

We still have to work on the night time feedings but I will worry about that once we get the daytime ones under control. I don't want too many changes at once. I'm not sure how night weaning will go as I'm sure ds won't be happy about it but as his language develops I find we can "talk" to him a lot more and explain how and why things happen. Granted he probably won't get it at 2am when all he wants is milk but.....we shall see. Sometimes I get depressed thinking it's been 19 months since I slept more than 3 hours at a time but I'm trying to look at it in a positive light. I wish that dh could help out a bit more. He's willing but ds just wants "mama" and there are some times I resent dh for sleeping a full night (I cosleep with ds in ds's room so dh isn't aware of the nightwakings). Fortunately, he will go to sleep with dh for the night but the nighttime wakings are solely mine. And I am not able to nap during the day. I really try but my mind can't wind down fast enough to be able to sleep in the small window that I'm alloted. I do try to have down time and sit and read or watch TV and that helps a bit. At least more than running around cleaning the house!

Like I said I really have no advice but I have been there and continue to be there during periods. I keep reminding myself that the way I am parenting ds is what I believe is best. I do need to rely on dh a lot more at times and unfortunately he is not always given the choice. Usually, I just reach a point where I need help and then I tell dh how it is and I need back-up. I know it's not always feasible but you really have to be assertive when you need help. Even if it's just to take a 5 minute shower. I do find it amazing how everyday I think I've reached the end but the next day I just get up and keep going. I'm not trying to say I'm super mom or anything but now that I know I can do it, it helps me during the day to day trials.

You are not alone! Take care.


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## Elana (May 18, 2004)

Hi!

Sorry you're having such a hard time!! I hate that burned out feeling - it makes life seem sooooooo hard!

Re your first question - my older dd nursed more than that at age 2, and YES I was going bonkers







She's now an extremely healthy, independant, happy (and weaned :LOL ) 4 yr. old, so it was worth it.

I recently started hiring a student, to take my little dd for 2 mornings a week, about 4 hours each time. I pack a few snacks, sand toys, some books and have 4 full hours for myself!!!!!!!! I really recommend it. I can take a bath, read a stupid novel, sleep, ANYTHING, without interruption!! the best thing is, my dd loves her and waits by the window for her to come. The extra plus is, because she knows her and loves her so much I can leave her for a few hours at night, from time to time and have a real date with dh.

It gives me the energy to cope with the neverending nursing-laundry-housework-diapers-etc.

Take it easy - This too shall pass!!


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## eminer (Jan 21, 2003)

It sounds like maybe your dd is going through a transitional period? One of my two all-time worst periods with my dd was around 14 months. She was transforming herself into a proper toddler, I guess (although she started walking at 10 months), and also teething. During wretched transitional periods I tend to worry that Grace is something like e.g. "a typical demanding toddler" (as you wrote).

You must do something to get a break for yourself. BUT NOT NIGHT-WEANING A 13-MONTH-OLD. Nursing is not just for nutrition, nor is it ever *merely* for comfort. It is a primary need in itself. On a nutritional level, a 13-month-old still very much needs plenty of milk for brain development, and of course the immunological properties. The need for milk (and, when possible, human milk is the best milk for human babies) continues at least to age 2, by the most conservative estimate. By now, nursing has become a major way for your dd to relate to you and to structure her day, and when you think about the importance of breastmilk and bonding with a caretaker, that is an important adaptive strategy. Nursing at night also helps your body keep itself prepared to meet dd's needs by suppressing your fertility and maintaining your milk supply. I tend to think of nursing as an emotional need proportional to "babyness". As the baby grows out of a child, s/he needs to nurse less and then not at all. A 13-month-old is still mostly baby. 5-6 times a day sounds very normal, perhaps even a bit on the light side, depending on the length of the nursings. (A lot of toddlers want to do extremely frequent, short nursings.)

I hope that didn't sound harsh or clinical, but I really want to emphasize the importance of what you are doing! It must be very hard to do it without much support. You have a right to be proud. 

We've had a few arrangements here, only a few months of which were me staying home while dh worked outside full time. A lot of dd's life I was a grad student, which was hard, but in a different way. Right now dh is working full time from home and I am staying home, which I guess should be heaven, but it seems like 3 of us here all the time can wreck the apartment with appalling efficiency, so there is a ton more housework than when dh and I were both working outside part-time (and of course the laptop rules our life). Anyway, with that caveat, here are a few coping strategies that have worked for me.

- Do your stuff and take dd along with you, letting her join in as she sees fit. This may slow you down with some things, but remember that you are really doing two things (what you're doing, and taking care of your dd). Dd can come with you in the shower. She can stand on a chair next to you and play with water while you do dishes. Etc.

- When your dh gets home from work, let him take care of dd for at least an hour while you take time entirely for yourself.

- At night, try different positions to help you get comfortable and not feel like your hips are permanently locked. Different things work as your baby grows. For example, I love lying on my back with dd nestled in one arm. When she was your dd's age, that meant having her sort of sprawled across my chest sometimes. She'd just hang out there.

- Unless the nap problem is an anomaly, try to figure out what works for your dd and indulge it. For example, does she nap in the sling? Does she nap better outside or inside? Would she nap better if you kept her in the room where you are working, maybe on blankets on the floor? That can also help in the evening. My dh and I used to have our alone time with dd sleeping by our feet. 

Erin


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

About nursing frequency that you mentioned; your dd is pretty normal. My ds was nursing tons at that age, way more than 5-6 times a day. I personally wouldn't go with the night weaning. I would look for other ways to meet my own needs without changing the nursing. Some things I would do:

* Get the heck out of the house and hang out with some other AP moms. This serves two purposes: if they have kids that are the same age or older you have people who are or have gone through what you are and you get some friends in the same stage of life. Try your local LLL or API group.

* You said your back hurts. Go get a massage. Have your dh or a grandma watch dd for an hour or two and go.

* If you've stopped, go back to napping with your dd during the day. It can be so tempting to try to get everything done while she's asleep. Let me tell you, a tired burned-out mommy does not accomplish more than a rested one.


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## Fiddlemom (Oct 22, 2003)

ChrysalisDC--

Nursing that much at 13 months is totally normal! But IMO that doesn't mean that you have to nurse that much if it's not working for you, particularly at night.

We've nightweaned both sons on the 'dad-nursing' method. With the first it was a snap. With the second it took forever--dh kept going out of town and I would deal with the nightwakings by nursing ds#2 out of complete exhaustion and not wanting him to wake up the older one. then the whole thing would fall apart. Poor kid got totally confused.

so, I can't really recommend very well what we did, although it did eventually work. Wish I could write a book about it and get rich! oh well.









Since I'm a pretty staunch ap'er it is difficult to admit that I did have to 'steel' myself a bit. Eventually, I had to comfort ds myself when he woke by any means necessary (other than nursing), staying right with him, even if he cried....he somehow really needed to hear it from me that we were all done nursing at night. And __I__ really had to be ready, that is to say, driven to the point of insanity a few dozen times before I was really really willing to let go of the night nursing myself. Weaning at night is the only way I've been able to get either of my kids out of the infant routine of waking every 2 hours.

Good luck!


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## Saralee Sky (Mar 19, 2004)

I read your post and the other replies and all I can say is this, too, shall pass! The amount and need for nursing sound perfectly in sinc with her age. And her intense need for you is a developmental stage she's going thru. She knows who you are in her life and who is NOT you. She recognizes mom as a separate entity from herself and this is a bit confusing and distressing. She will relax soon.

This does not solve the problem of your personal burn out I know. The other posts gave you some ideas about getting some personal time for yourself. I would also recommend letting your daughter stay with someone you trust one evening a week for some time alone with your husband.

I am writing to you with hind sight. I am 55 now and my children are grown, one with children of his own. I take care of my grandchildren 2-3 days/week. Next to their parents I am the closest person to them. I love my relationship with them and am glad my son and dil have me to help them out and provide loving care for their children.

I did not have someone like me to help me with my kids when they were young. I immersed myself so much in being a parent that I lost sight of being a partner/wife. We remain close friends today, but are maried to other people.

If you don't have someone like me - start looking and asking around. I am also a big advocate of flower essences for moms and children. Something like Bach's Rescue Remedy can calm a clingy or fretful child and an over-stressd mom with no ill effects.

You are a very good mother. Learn to recognize your limits and personal needs and make sure you try and get at least some of them met!


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## ntengwall (Feb 21, 2003)

First off, please know that you are not alone! Your daughter sounds exactly like my third son (who will be 2 next month). I am here to tell you that everything you are doing now IS making a big difference in your child and her future (I feel strongly about AP parenting) but I also understand how it can make you feel burnt out and frustrated! Let me first give you some of my history since I have not always been a die hard AP parent. My first son was born naturally with a big fight with the hospital staff, he was taken from me immediately after birth (meconium that was no problem) and this had a definetly had an affect on our bonding. I was not totally sold on the whole AP thing and did some of it with Keaton. I remember saying that the only aspect I didn't really agree with was co-sleeping and how I would never do that (never say never as a parent!!) He was one of those babies who could easily go 2 hours between nursing and was easy to schedule (even though I never really set out to do it). He was in a bassinet for the first few months in our room and I usually ended up bringing him in bed with us around 4 am. When he was 2 or 3 months old everyone told me we should move him into his room in a crib so we did. As I said, he was easy-going and didn't seem to mind this. I would still get up once or twice a night to nurse him. He slept through the night at 5 months and pretty much did that from there on (with an occasional wake-up where I would nurse him back to sleep). He was always nursed to sleep for all bedtimes and naptimes. I weaned him at 15 months old because that is what everyone around me said to do. I was sad and even cried (as did he) for those first few days. It just felt wrong, but everyone else made me feel like I had to do it. Fast forward to my next son who was born when Keaton was 2. Griffin was much more high needs than Keaton and I found myself nursing him a lot more in 2 hours (sometimes because it was just easier with a newborn and a toddler to put my boob in his mouth!). I had already decided this time to allow him to self wean. I was also becoming a natural birth instructor at the time so I was surrounded by more "natural minded" moms and this helped immensly with my decision. I had Griffin in bed with me for the first 4 or 5 months (mostly because he had RSV and I was scared to death to put him a crib!). When he turned 6 months old, everyone started with the "you better get him in his crib or else..." So we began the journey to get him in his room in a crib. HA HA Ha--joke was on us! It seems that Griffin had no plans to sleep in his crib and he let us know this! Unlike Keaton, he was not as mild-mannered and one night I attempted to do a very gentle Ferber (but I would pick him up and hold him!) He got so mad and cried for about 2 hours straight!! I then knew we were fighting a losing battle. This went on for a few months--I would put him in at the beginning of the night, go in numerous times to try to keep him there and then eventually bring him back into our bed--very tired and exhausted thinking how rediculous this all seemed to me. Finally, a new friend I had met at my Bradley Method training called me and heard the exasperation in my voice and said to me, "Why don't you just sleep with him in your bed...you'll both get so much more sleep!". So at around a year old, we brought him back in bed with us. Now at this point, he was only waking up once a night and usually my husband could get him back to sleep. He slept with us until about 2 years old and then we transitioned him into a bed next to his brother. No big deal and it worked out great. He also nursed until he was 3. He stopped on his own and it was painless. I felt so great about knowing he stopped when HE was ready!
Fast forward to my third son Landon. By now I was totally sold on the whole AP parenting thing and wanted to have one more baby who I could parent the "right way". I could definelty feel a difference between my relationship with Griffin and Keaton. I was MUCH closer to Griffin and I knew it was because of the semi-co-sleeping and the exteneded breastfeeding that I did with him! Well, let's just say that Landon was/is a handful!! He would only sleep in the sling and woke up almost immediately if I layed him down. I was the only one who could get him to sleep and keep him there. He woke up every 2 hours to nurse from day one until about 1 week ago!!! So I know how you feel. His naps sucked--an hour at the most and most of the time I would have to go nurse him back to sleep at some point during them. At around a year, I started to feel just like you. I started questioning myself and wondering why I was doing this to myself (I also homeschool my other boys so I got NO breaks at all). Then I remembered how fast time goes with a baby/toddler and I knew that it would be over before I knew it and it would all be a memory. And I also had the knowledge of how much closer I was to Griffin than Keaton thanks to the AP parenting I did. About the sleeping issue...around a year ago we started having my husband rock Landon to sleep. Now this was not easy and it didn't happen overnight. There were some nights that I had to go in and rescue him







Most nights I would nurse Landon to sleep around 8 or 9 and then when he woke back up around 10 or 11, my dh would go in and try to rock him back. Then we got to where I would nurse him downstairs around 8 and then Chris would take him up and rock or walk him to sleep the rest of the way. This whole past year has been spent trying to stretch the amount of time he would allow my dh to be with him/sleep with him. About a month ago we would try once or twice a week to have Chris sleep with him for as long as he would let him. When he would wake up, CHris would puthim on his chest in bed and rock him back. At first he lasted from about 10 or 11 to 2 or 3 and then Chris woudl come get me. THen it would stretch to 3 or 4 (this is over a month or so). Now we didn't get to do this often since my dh owns his own computer company and couldn't be without sleep for long, but we usually did it once or twice a week. Now for the exciting part...we went away last week to NC for our annual beach trip and Chris and I decided that we were going to try to get Landon to sleep with Chris all night. I was nervous, but Chris said he felt really sure that he could get him back--even though it might mean him having to get out of bed and walk him back to sleep or having him sleep on his chest. This was our only shot since Chris couldn't do this during the week with his work. Well, it worked great and now I have been sleeping in a bed BY MYSELF until about 6 am. I usually get up and go in around 6 and let Chris go in the other bed. Landon usually nurses then and goes back to sleep for an hour or more. Now Landon is still waking up at night with CHris, but it has decreased GREATLY. By the third night on vacation he was only waking up once! So he went from waking up every 2 hours to only once in about 3 or 4 days. All this to say it CAN be done and without having to let them cry it out. It just takes time (about a year for us). I always knew it wouldnt' be like this forever, but sometimes it is VERY hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel! I can tell you this though--I am even closer to Landon than I am to Griffin or Keaton and it has to be the co-sleeping since all other things were equal with him and Griffin. You are doing the right thing and it is ok to feel resentment every once in awhile. Please feel free to e-mail me with any questions or just to vent. Unfortunately, it sounds like you got a high needs child with your first instead of your last like I did. I highly recommend Jay Gordon's book--he has a lot of good advice in it. Just remember--it's not going to happen overnight or even in a few months (at least not if you want it to be gentle). Good luck!


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## BabySlinger (Aug 6, 2002)

Not that I want to scare you... but I strongly second all the above recommendations re: moms' groups, babysitters, mother's helpers, etc, AND I strongly encourage you to involve your husband in saving you from your burnout.

My daughter was just like yours at that age, and I had 100% night duty (husband sleeping with ear plugs and/or in another room) and I felt just as burned-out and sleep-deprived and resentful and half-crazy as you do. My daughter grew out of it, and I recovered, but my marriage did not. I just couldn't forgive my husband for letting me suffer so long when he could have been helping me.

I see that your situation is the reverse of mine - I was working full-time, and my husband was a student (so he COULD have been doing a lot more of the parenting, but chose not to). But even in a "breadwinner dad/SAHM" arrangement, dad needs to find ways to help mom meet the 24-hour-a-day needs of a young child.

"Babyproof your marriage" means more than just making time for sex (though that would have been a good thing to do, too!!!)

Good luck!


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## fourtimesthefun (Dec 25, 2003)

Hi There. . . I can sooooo relate to the 'baby burnout' syndrome. . . I remember when my twins were 6 months old I thought I would lose my mind--I got absolutely NO rest with incessant nursing all night long--one or the other--plus they were pretty high-maintenance little babies to begin with. I actually almost weaned them at that point--until I realized that my wanting to wean them had nothing to do with them--and everything to do with the fact that I wasn't taking care of myself. I realized that when someone asked me, "And when is YOUR 'down-time' during the day?" When I realized I had no downtime (with three babies under the age of 2 and a husband in school) whatsoever it was no wonder I was about to go bonkers. At that point I began seeking help--around the house--in the form of friends who volunteered--I had this awesome friend who would bring me dinner when my husband was in school two nights a week. . . and I started having my mother-in-law come over once a week to take care of the babies so I could go down the road to the bookstore for an hour or two--by myself. Even to this day when I feel myself getting to the burn out point (now I have four under the age of 6, homeschool, and run my own business from home), I tell my husband I need to have some time alone to recharge my batteries. I think we all have differing thresholds for stress and self-sacrifice--but I believe the bottom line is that if we don't take care of ourselves, how can we (really) take care of our children. And I happen to have three daughters, so it is very important to me that they SEE me taking care of myself so that they will take care of themselves when they become wives and mothers (if they so choose). Just because you take time for yourself--even if it means being away from your baby for an hour or two--that doesn't mean you are not an "attachment parent." I hope this helps. You will know what is right for you no matter what anyone else tells you. . . but my one sentence of advice would be--wait before weaning or changing anything like that and figure out if you need to take care of yourself or if it is something else that is causing you to feel burnt out. . . Once YOUR needs are being met, you might feel completely different about night time nursing--and, also, your baby may be teething--my 14 mo was nursing like crazy about 2 weeks ago--I got no sleep--but then it passed and he only wakes once or twice during the night. . . Oh, and another thing a friend who is a nutritionist as well as a LLL leader advised me of (with the twins)--was to make sure the baby is drinking water during the day time--especially as we approach the summer months. Your baby might just be thirsty--sometimes it really can be that simple.

Warmly,
Diana

P.S. My twins nursed full-time until age 3 and still ask for 'Mommy Milk' once in a while (they are 4.5)


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

My DD was exactly like yours at that age. She wasn't really into solids yet, nursed alot, and was just nowhere near ready to wean. The "don't offer, don't refuse" did no good for the reasons you mentioned. Yes, I nurse her to sleep every night and still do. However, at 22 months we have begun some nightweaning. The thing that finally decided me on it was seeing that she was ready. She was showing signs.

Your DD will, too. Until then, I can't agree more with the other mamas. Your problem isn't so much your DD nursing, it's that you need a break. If you know that weaning is going to be traumatic for her, please don't do it. I promise you, PROMISE you that if you wait until she starts showing signs (and you've come so far, it will likely happen soon) then it will be easier on all of you.

I felt guilty when I got PG thinking that my DD might wean. I always wanted her to completely self-wean. But with my milk drying up fast, nipple soreness, and less able to handle the continual discomfort of sleeping on one side (I am so with you on that one - and it's my own fault really b/c I don't use extra pillows, etc to support myself properly) I am actually thrilled at our progress (see my thread "Share your success stories). What makes it so wonderful is that she is ready for this, and it's proceeding without any distress on her part. Also, we have five more months until baby comes, so we're in no rush.

I understand how you feel, many of us here do. I hope you can find a way to get the breaks you need, without weaning your DD before she is ready for it.


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## ariadne (Jul 16, 2003)

First of all, congratulate yourself on doing a WONDERFUL job with breastfeeding dd! Thirteen months is a long time to do anything. I have a slightly different experience from most of the other posts. The sleep deprivation was just more than I could take. I began pumping so that dh could help with night feedings. I had no problems with my milk supply whatsoever after doing this. Later, I also began giving ds a 50/50 mix of soy formula and breastmilk during the day (he is also sensitive to dairy). He is a healthy, happy, wonderful little boy. While I do believe in attachment parenting, you also have to take care of yourself in the process. Every situation is unique. Just because another mom breastfed every 3 hours for 2 years, doesn't mean that all of us can or should do the same thing. You have to take burnout seriously. In my case it led to severe postpartum depression. With the help of 1) more sleep 2) counseling and 3) Zoloft I was able to start functioning normally again before it had a serious effect on my marriage or my relationship with my child. Being a martyr is not good for anyone in the long run.


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## yaboobarb (Mar 23, 2002)

First , I would say "SELF CARE!"
Don't discount your needs by saying that dad is tired too! Use your resentment as a cue to realize that you need to do something for yourself and let dad handle the baby!

Second, The same thing started to happen to me with my son, but this happened around 10 months. I could never get the "lying down" and nursing thing, I think because of the shape of my breasts, so I had to get up and out of bed to night nurse.

Also once the start of regular food into Leandros ' diet, I started to get rashes and cracking and bleeding nipples. ( No matter how well I thought I rinsed his mouth.)

When I started to resent all of the night nursing, I realized that I had to do something about it. With all of the reading for answers, talking to others for answers and crying at night, I realized that there would be no quick fix... just a process that the two of us had to take.

Here are some things I came up with:

1) engage dad to help baby to sleep. The more baby goes to sleep without breast, the better of a chance you have of getting baby to sleep on her own.

2) Nurse during the day, but try not to nurse to sleep. Rock, rub, push in the carriage etc. Take her off when she gets sleepy and try to let her go to sleep on her own.

3) When she wakes up at night to nurse, start nursing than take baby off after a few minutes and say, "Ok now sleep" She will object and you can delay before nursing ( each time delay longer.. you can rock , rub, etc.) You might have to do this five times, but eventually she will be too tired to object and she will fall asleep right away.
Each time, she will fall asleep faster and ask less.

4) Soon , you can try not nursing when she gets up at night. I used a sippy with water and I would offer that. If Lee would cry too much , or if he was too distressed. I would nurse and say, i am sorry. I didn't know that you needed to nurse so badly.

5) Try talking to her whild she sleeps. This works for a variety of problems.
http://whilechildrensleep.homestead....roduction.html

Children ( and adults) are very open when they sleep, they can understand more than you know.

There is no quick fix, just a process. the first few nights will be hell, but soon you will get less wake ups.. or even less nursing requests during the night.

No matter what, follow your instincts. You may start to do the night weaning process and change your mind this month, and try it again next month. Be easy on yourself! If mom and baby are too distressed... nurse and try it again later.

Good luck

Barbara


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## Mother Mel (Mar 16, 2004)

I know exactly where you're coming from. My DD is 17 months and still is a very active nurser, and a 'snacker' at that, so she nurses frequently throughout the day. Thankfully, she is down to only 1-2 nursings at night, and she does share our bed. You are doing the right thing as long as it feels right by you. Trust your instincts; you are smarter than you think! My DD is going through a transitional phase at the moment - both teething and not quite ready to walk on her own, and I have noticed more frequent nursings lately. I very much agree with the other mamas out there, but feel I must also add this: your DD is probably very in-tune with you and your emotions. She is probably sensing that you are frustrated and this may be making her insecure and is then nursing more for comfort. They are only young once (and for a very short time) and the steps and sacrifices you are making now will come back to you tenfold when they are older. Hang in there!! You can do this! Good luck and take care!


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

My DD is the same age as yours and she nurses 15 times a day, 1-2 times at night, and cluster feeds from around 4:30-6:30AM - 2 hours of nursing (groan). So, I think 5-6 times is within the range of normal! (Could we trade babies? I need a break! :LOL )

Seriously though, I know where you are coming from. The day nursings really don't bother me, but the cluster nursing for 2 hours every morning really wears on me sometimes. My best coping mechanism so far is repeating, ad nauseum, "this too shall pass." I actually find myself getting very wistful about it when I realize how quickly the first year has gone. I know that toddlerhood will fly by as well and I try, try, try not to wish it away. But, there are certainly some aspects that I could do without!

My main point in replying was to respond to this:
*


chrysalisDC said:



I feel like part of the joy of parenting is being eclipsed by the intensity of the experience...I look at mothers who haven't chosen extended breastfeeding or who have weaned their babies forcibly and sometimes envy the distance they have from the demands of motherhood. I am so in conflict.

Click to expand...

*


chrysalisDC said:


> Don't, don't, DON'T envy those women! Someday, I believe they will envy you. Someday when they realize what they missed. Someday when AP is the new mainstream. Someday when the "weirdos" are the ones who put their babies in cribs and feed them junk from a can. Someday when America wakes up and realizes what babies really need, which is what you are already doing!
> 
> You are doing a wonderful service to your dd. Good for you for nursing to a year and beyond! Good for you for co-sleeping! You've chosen the high road in parenting, unlike these women who seem to have it so easy. The best things in life do not come easily - you should be proud for having already recognized that!
> 
> ...


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

one phrase that i remind myself is "the cure for a fussy baby is rest for the mother". and you've been offered some ideas to get this. something i had to relearn this week (and will again and again) is that these are my choices, and that i have the power to make choices and change my mind when things aren't going well.

one time i was going through a bad spell and a good friend of mine gave me advice that i initially resented and cried about but it was exactly what i needed. she told me story about how she was exhausted and decided to accept it and surrender, to keep her energy just for giving love and doing the things she believed in.

nightnursing has some wonderful benefits. like last night me and dh were watching a movie and my two littles woke up crying because he had peed in his sleep and kicked my daughter awake. i nursed them for ten minutes and they were fast asleep. i don't know how i could have handled it otherwise, and all i had to do was lay down. some children will nightwake whether they are nursing or not. so this is a decision you will have to play by ear and do what your heart feels.

as for the ap parenting, i'm in a homeschooling group where i see magical creatures and their mammas and can literally see the results. i encourage all mammas to get some likeminded community in real life. it has made the all the difference for me. to talk to another woman who knows your difficulties can physically make you feel better.

it is a short and fleeting precious time that you are mothering your little one. i figure i'll probably live at least to my eighties and this is just a small slice of the pie. and yes, we've all been though what you are going through, i was feeling overwhelmed myself a week ago. it is a richness that remind myself to appreciate.

much love,
casina


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

i had some more thoughts, that some of you may find ridiculous, that have gotten me through being technically sleep-deprived for almost seven years.....it kind of goes with my continuum/tribal anthropological leanings.....
people for most of human history have not had eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. it is a modern luxury we have. maybe we would have to get up to tend the fire, or be on alert for wolves or enemies or bad storms. or maybe we would be restless because we would be worried we could not bear children!
my friends with older children assure me that one day, and for most of my life, i will get to sleep three hours or five hours straight or even a whole night.

hey, it works for me.


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## nadinem (Feb 25, 2004)

Like the others said, take care of yourself. Dr Sears has a bunch of nursing FAQ's, especially night-nursing at his website: www.askdrsears.com

With frequent nursings, I had good luck with actually sitting up in bed to nurse my dd and keeping her awake through the nursing so she'd get more milk. Then when she slept it was for a longer period of time.

Also, you might be able to find an AP playgroup in your area. There's a lot of benefit for kids that age to burning off all their energy. You might also find a mom who you can baby swap with (you watch both, then she watches both) so that you can each get some alone time during the day.

I also think (I'm probably going to get some objections to this one) that babies get used to getting things the way they want them. That doesn't mean that they always have to get what they want. And, sometimes that means that they cry. I believe that it's better to let them cry with a supportive parent that to have what isn't good for them (or you)... think "car seat".

With my 15 mo dd, she pitches a fit which lasts about 30 seconds (during which I empathize with her) and then she usually calms down.

Good luck.

Nadine


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## 2mygirls (Feb 11, 2004)

There is a wealth of information here for you. Mostly though, kudos to you for recognizing your feelings and being here to discuss them.

2 thoughts: Your babe is surely at a place where the emotional check is way needed throughout her day as she has realized that she today has a whole new world to explore. That will be a whole new world tomorrow, chalk up a few new experiences from yesterday and so on. Exploration brings with it such uncertainity for these wonderful sprites, it is amazing to see them go to who is safe ... mommy, breast, not always just a what is safe. It is providing that safety that one truly realizes the power of being a mommy.
That brings me to #2, this is the hard one. Where you recognize that the easier approach to things, ... bottle, attachment "thing" - (not parenting), ... etc







: is always around. The hard road, the high road, is met with an incredible demand for discipline, it is way easier to go "easy" and happy meal it. The important thing to remember every step of the way. The incredible need for balance.
Give yourself a ton of credit. You are consciously parenting. Your email was an inspiration enclosed with a bittersweet memory ( I was there with one) as well as current experience (I am there again) for me. Talk with your husband, look to family for help? One person also suggested to me once being that hiring anyone to give me a break was not an option, to seek support from our church. (we dont' have one)







but the advice is good - lots of grandma's there...

good luck with your babe, mine just woke up needing her milk....


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## firesnake (Jun 1, 2004)

I night weaned my ds at around 8 mo to coincide with him getting his own room. I had always imagined myself cosleeping and nursing on demand for as long as he wanted so it felt so harsh to be doing this when he was still so little, but it all worked out.
He would wake up if I put him down after I nursed him to sleep, he'd wake up when i came in the room, he'd wake up when I got in bed with him, I just felt like I was bothering him more than anything. So when he got a crib, I'd nurse him and then put him down awake so he could fall asleep on him own. I'd let him "cry it out" but really I went in there every 5 minutes, so he didn't think I'd left the country, to pat his back and tell him I still loved him but I didn't think he needed to nurse anymore. Once he fell asleep exhausted and he realized that he could do it without the sky caving in, it got easier every time.
Then when he'd wake to nurse at night I'd try different things, sometimes I'd bring him to bed with me and he'd spend the rest of the night there, sometimes I'd sit up in bed, sometimes I'd sit on the floor of his room in the dark, sometimes with the lights on. Sometimes I could tell by his cry that he didn't really mean it and I'd go in to pat his back and then stick earplugs in and go back to sleep. I know, that sounds horrible, doesn't it?
It helped that it coincided with a move to his crib so it didn't seem like he was still in bed with me and I was just denying him milk for no reason.
It also helped him realize that if he woke up and couldn't be nursed (like if I wasn't home for some reason) that he'd be ok. He's always been a hearty eater and the nights that he'd sleep thru on his own led me to believe that he wouldn't starve to death.
We've come to the understanding now at 13 mo that if he wakes up and really needs to nurse, he'll let me know in a different way than if he's just fussing, I'll nurse him and then he'll go back to sleep without a fuss.
It's made such a huge difference, we're both a lot happier, I'm more patient and playful with him, we go out and do more stuff, he can shift his naptimes around without falling apart and is more even tempered.
I think he made the connection between a good nights sleep and fun days.
Try shifting your little ones bedtime around, now that mine's more active, he goes to bed early, wakes to nurse before I go to bed and is good all night. He used to go down late and wake a 4 am every night which wasn't fun.
Also, a friend nightweaned her baby by letting him sleep with other people, if nursing's not an option maybe just a cuddle and song will do.

take care


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## 2mygirls (Feb 11, 2004)

One other thought I had from my experience only. It was around 13 months with my first dd that I started transitioning her to fall asleep on her own - foreign. As the last post suggested, nursing and then putting her down. I stayed in the room, rubbing her back, repeating "ni ni" & "lay down" over and over and over ....
At 15 months - it was painstakingly slow but..., lovingly so, she came over to me, close to her bedtime said "ni ni" and crawled up stairs to be nursed and left to get cozy in her crib. That night, and certainly not every night after but enough, she slept a long enough stint for it all to be worth it.
Her bedtime committment on my part during those 3 months was hefty, were talking sometimes close to an hour realistically. But it met my comfort level, crying was not an option. There were nights it was difficult, but again, the high road seldom is easy, thus so very rewarding.
My dd is a peaceful sleeper







. She loves her own bed now, and sleeps from 8 till 8, I never thought I'd be saying that, and am confident that her comfort and trust in her surroundings has provided her the opportunity to rest well.
best wishes


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Children will adapt to virtually any situation, whether it's in their best interests or not.

It's up to you as a parent to decide what your values are, and then stick to them. The short term solution may compromise the long-term goal of instilling certain values into your child. Your child may go along with it because really, what choice do they have?

I think this is something to consider when talking about such situations as nightweaning. The easiest solution is not always the one that is best for the child, though undoubtedly it's usually best for the parents.


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## texcalkas (May 12, 2004)

This month's La Leche League magazine has an article on this very subject that you may find helpful. Most of the women quoted were so burned out, touched out and just plain tired that they did eventually night wean. In one case the child's father would go in to comfort her/him in the night and since dads don't have the right "equipment", the child was weaned in less than a week.

As far as not having her on a schedule...just do it. It's not going to be easy now but for your sanity, give it a try. My own 15 month old DD takes two naps a day and nurses four times...none at night. I put her on a schedule immediately after birth mostly because I need the routine. We don't co-sleep because my DH rolled over on her when she was a newborn but she did sleep in a bassinet at the foot of our bed until she was five months old.

Attachment parenting is great until the mother begins to realize she's given and given and all the child wants is more. Eventually AP moms have to get their lives back. After all, they are the authority figure, not the child.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:

Attachment parenting is great until the mother begins to realize she's given and given and all the child wants is more.
So, is it the fault of attachment parenting that the mother runs out of resources? Or is it the lack of support and resources the mother has available to her? If it's the latter (which I firmly beleive), then why should the child's needs suffer first simply b/c they are the ones least able to stand up for their needs, and therefore their needs are the easiest to justify dumping first.

Quote:

Eventually AP moms have to get their lives back.
I don't understand this statement. I am an AP mother, and I don't feel my "life" has been taken away, nor am I in any rush to get back to the way life was "pre-child".

Quote:

After all, they are the authority figure, not the child.
Which sounds to me like a fancy way of saying that a mother has the power to put her needs ahead of her child's, the husband can, the MIL can, the caregiver can.....but the child has no such power. And if some adult won't advocate for his/her needs, of course the child's needs are going to be dismissed first. I also don't get the connection between "authority" and a child whose sleep needs are unable to be met by a worn-out, under-supported mother.


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## MaxiMom (Mar 31, 2004)

Burnt,

Hang in there and do what feels best for you and baby.

As a new mom myself, I've often had the feeling that I can't wait until ds naps again so I can take care of a chore around the house or whatever. Sometimes I feel guilty about it and remind myself that those things can wait while I take care of my child, it is a precious time.

However, I also believe that children need structure, regardless of where you fall in the spectrum. The difficulty for me, at this point, is when to begin to teach that structure, when is it best for everyone in the family?

What my instinct tells me is to listen to ds carefully now so I can learn his cues as to when he's ready for something new. Also, to communicate with other moms like we all do here. This is a great help to me, BTW. Then I can introduce the structure (i.e., night weaning, eating solids, potty training) in a way that we can both live with. The child will understand that I am the adult/parent/techer and he will also feel loved.

At four months, ds is really a good baby, I feel blessed. I also hope this demeanor continues as he grows, every day is so different for us.








I miss "me time", too and we must admit, we all need it, sometimes baby can wait while mommy takes a potty break.

Let us know if any of the great suggestions here help you.

Mel


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## madsandandy (Feb 3, 2004)

Hi I know exactly what you mean and have only a few minutes and I scanned the replies and did not see (altho i could have missed it) a suggestion about reading No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. She talks about how important naps and nighttime sleep are and offers a gentle plan with no crying for nightweaning. Run to your library and check it out! you can also look at www.pantley.com and there is a yahoo group you could join NoCrySleep2 that has a wealth of info and other moms like you and me.

take care of yourself.

hugs

beth


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## silving (Jun 29, 2002)

Hi there,

It sounds like you're writting about my first son.
My husband would go in and pick him up and give him a cup of water (10 months old at this point), during the night and yes he did cry, but I had to get some sleep before he turned 1.
At this stage she does not need the milk for growing, it just tasts great and it is mamma.
Your husband have to get more involved when it comes to your well-being. Either that, or you buy a one-way ticket to Hawaii.
Try to call a midwife in your area. They always have a lot of answers and new ways of trying things.

Take care,
Silving


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## madsandandy (Feb 3, 2004)

ooooh, that one way ticket to hawaii is sounding mighty nice about now....my ds has been waking up once an hour or MORE (really) since January and it's torture!

Beth


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## Brenoi (May 5, 2004)

I feel for you . . . I remember so well the not getting dressed, the exhaustion, the sore nipples - but if you notice the word is remember. Although it seems like you are in the middle of some foreign form of sleep depravation torture (I am kidding here), there is another side. It won't be long before they are grown. Mine are now 9 and 7. I was pregnant or nursing for 5 years, I think. I started to feel like I was no longer one person. I had lost everything of me. Yes, I was taking care of the kids and they were thriving BUT what was left of me. Two things really helped, one - my husband reminded me on countless nights that some day I would miss this (and he is right you know). Yes, I could have pumped or weened or let him cry it out but that went against what we believed. George's little statement gave me that little umph to drag my self out of bed. Secondly, I got serious about finding a way for me to go out once in a while and when I mean once in a while that is what I mean (maybe evey other month and sometimes it wasn't out it was bringing friends over to watch a movie or such after the kids went to bed). Those occasional times rejuvinated me for weeks. Know that it is a true statement that dc will not nurse forever and dc will one day sleep through the night (although for our ds at 7 that is only fairly recently - he had a famous 4am wake up time). Pamper yourself (even if it is just a cup of herbal tea) every day, love your husband, and your child, remember that this time is fleeting. I will pray for you.


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

I have a beautiful nineteen month old baby girl! I did not attachment parent, but in my family of formula feeding throw em in the crib all day moms I am OUT THERE! I guess my story is a little differant and I hope that it helps! I breastfed my daughter to thirteen months (odd for my family!) I didn't in her first five weeks though! Just as the milk dried I determined to breastfeed. My sweet little girl had already tried five differant formulas. So off to the lactation consultant we went! I came out with a plan and breast pump in a BIG BLUE BOX! I proceeded to pump for weeks with no result! Finally I was able (after about a month) to fill a four ounce bottle a day!!!! HOW SAD! But I PROUDLY fed it to her! (in public of course! LOL) Eventually we moved on to actually breastfeeding by 12 weeks and oh how she loved mommas milk! With this I have learned a few things. one is mommy knows best! Two is there are lots of people out there with LOTS of advice, sort through it some of it is usefull! Three is if I would have breastfed her from the hospital maybe she wouldn't have treated it as just food! Maybe she would have gotten more benefits and maybe I could have attachment parented her! She is SOOOO independant! She wouldn't dream of being in my bed! She would look at me funny if I suggested she sleep with us! So my point is while she wants mommy all the time even though there is formula in her past and a butter yellow crib in her room I wouldn't mind if she still wanted to breastfeed even at night! I wouldn't even mind if she wanted to snuggle up between us! Of course I look at your situation and while I envy it I am also certain that a part of you envys the sleep I am able to get every night! The truth is it won't be for much longer! Take a break and come back refreshed! Maybe garden or volunteer somewhere for a couple days during the summer. Something so that you come back a fullfilled mommy and remember someone out there envy's that which seems troublesome to you!


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## 3 little birds (Nov 19, 2001)

I can totally sympathize. I had twins first and I never refused "nurnees"them for 2 and a half years. I was up about just about every hour at night until then.
When they were 2.5, I was 5 months pregnant and couldn't take anymore. I used daddy to night wean them. It was heart breaking but I didn't know what choice I had.

Well, the girls were still waking at night, and we gave them soymilk (eeks!). It wasn't until we became mostly raw vegan that they slept through the night. They were probably dehydrated and/or hungry and that's why they weren't sleeping well. Even now if we eat alot of cooked food before bed instead of fruit they will night wake.

My son is now 2 and still night nursing. I highly recommend The NO-Cry Sleep Solution by Pantley. She explains that babies who are always nursed to sleep believe that they must always have a breast in their mouths while sleeping. As they go through their sleep cycles they awaken slightly and realize that the breast is gone and they go searching for it. She has excellent advice for helping toddlers to relearn going to sleep without a breast in their mouth. I have been way lazy and haven't implemented all of her advice, but the littles bits that I have done have been helpful and the night nursing has definately decreased.

I read once on these boards that when you are touched out , try replacing nursing with books. Also singing the alphabet while nursing and then stopping can help the nursling have shorter nursings. Of course, this may not be appropriate at 13 months, only you know.

Best wishes!


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## whoknew (Jun 6, 2004)

burt out mommy,

lots of advice from many women to you. seems like most folks want to replicate their own experience. as a mommy of two baby boys, a mommy who regards herself as doing the best i can everyday, with some good days and some bad days, a mommy who has many opinions on most everything, i have some simple advice: trust your instincts.

you know what to do. shut out the many voices determined to influence how you raise your baby and do what that voice inside you is telling you to do. if you can no longer hear it, find a quiet place (it only takes a few minutes to find it again) and beckon it to counsel you once again.

there are simply too many self-righteous voices determined to drown out the gift that every woman has been given -- our own momma's instinct.

i trust you will find her -- the mother voice that will help you be a good mommy.

best to you, my sister.


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## JennyMom (Sep 10, 2002)

One cause of night-waking is allergies. Since you alreadys know that your dd is allergic to milk, she has a higher chance of being allergic to other foods. My dd awoke every 1-2 hours every night for her first year and she needed nursing to get back to sleep. None of the approaches that I read about for reducing night-waking worked for me. Even gentle approaches felt wrong.

When my dd was about 12 months old, I discovered the book "Is This Your Child?" by Doris Rapp. This book discusses the causes, symptoms, and approaches to food allergies. After reading this book, I eliminated wheat from dd's diet (and mine) for 3 days and then re-introduced it again. The difference in her sleep was incredible. Eliminating wheat and the other foods that my daughter is sensitive to was not easy, but it was the approach that finally felt right to me. I now realize that my dd had excruciating bouts of gas every day for her first year, and she had no way to communicate with me about it other than being fussy. She is a much more mellow baby at 23 months than she was at 12 months, as long as I keep her diet restricted. She almost becomes a different baby when she eats a food that she is very sensitive to.

Allergies may or may not be at least part of the cause of your dd's night-waking. If you want to look into the possibility, then I highly recommend Dr. Rapp's book. It made such a difference in my life.


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

jennymom, so i'm curious, do you feel better from eliminating wheat? i have an idea in my head that it is because the mammas don't assimilate the food that the babies are more sensitive.


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## JennyMom (Sep 10, 2002)

Casina,

When I found out that my dd had food allergies, I also found out (to my surprise) that I have a lot of the same food allergies as dd. Whenever I eliminated a food from dd's and my diet and dd had some noticible improvement in her sleep, behavior, etc, I also had some improvement in the way I felt. I had known for a long time that I did not seem to have as much energy as it seemed that most people had, but I had not traced my lack of energy to food allergies until I changed my diet to help my dd.

I should mention that I am using the term "food allergy" in a general sense; Some allergists may call this a "food sensitivity" instead. My and dd's food allergies are subtle. We rarely get rashes or obvious swelling. DD's reactions tend to occur 3-24 hours after she eats the offending food. She gets gas trapped in her intestine that does not come out as farts. I can often hear the gas if I put my ear to her abdomin. She gets hyper, over-active, unable to slow down, difficult to get to sleep, difficult to stay asleep, awakening with screaming, and frantic with pain. My symptoms are much more mild.
Even after weaning, I have to watch dd's diet carefully. She can react so much to foods that she seems like a different baby.

I am sorry if I seem to change the subject from night-weaning to allergies. In my case, treating dd's allergies led to a natural reduction in night-feedings due to longer sleep durations, less breast-feedings during the day, a huge increase in DD's appetite for a wide variety of solid foods, and a great reduction in dd's overall fussiness.


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## madsandandy (Feb 3, 2004)

Jennymom,

I am very interested in how you found out about your FA and what you did. I have a 11 month old ds who wakes 10x a night or more. he is exclusively bf as he will not take any solids...he will sometimes suck on a carrot, cracker or pretzel, but that's about it. i don't think this is normal nightwaking as he seems upset each time even when he's right in bed with me. If you're up to it you could email me privately to talk about this...as i'm searching for help and a possible diagnosis. thanks. beth


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

madsandandy, my kids all woke that much around that ten months, when they were starting to move. the instinct that drives a lump of a body to move and walk is an overpowering desire. they also nursed much more at night so that they could work on their skills during the day. are they stirring and settling, or are they immediately screaming, and do they wake completely?
solids do not necessarily keep a kid in bed. especially if it bothers them because it needs more digestion. the size of their belly remains the same.

sorry if this is bad news to you. i'm only an expert on my own kids though.


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## playfulmama (Apr 15, 2002)

Not a whole lot to add but there are some great suggestions here... I have already tried a few myself. I have a 25 month old girl who still nurses alot... I've yet to sleep through the night... hah! Most days I'm not tired anymore... and the less babylike she becomes the more I know that weaning will be bittersweet... and I will treasure these years. It is a difficult balance to achieve... meeting your own needs, the needs of your child and of your partner/family.

It is important to remember that one of the ways to meet your needs is to find a place in which you can complain without being told to wean. There are so many people to which I've learned not to complain when tired, touched out... or about to scream because I can't do anything when "I" want to do it! They just think I should wean and get my life back... excuse me for being human... I am allowed to love my life (with nursing) and still have a bad day.

These are all normal moments and probably signal I need more support... which I've learned to get.

About 2 weeks ago my partner began putting our daughter to sleep at night... this is a great break for me and she has learned she can fall asleep without the breast. She did cry about 10 minutes the first night with her dad but has since been fine... I think she was ready. I still nurse 2-5 times during the night but having the down time really helps.

Wow, I am rambling AAM... I also teach art to toddlers 2 classes per week and most naps are spent with me running around cleaning up or prepping for the next class... it is good for my sense of personhood and fits into my parenting style... see http://artexplorations.novainorbit.com/ for some cute pictures!


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## ariadne (Jul 16, 2003)

I have also tried it and The No Cry Sleep Solution is great! Lots of good advice from a mom who has been there.


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

playfulmama said:


> It is important to remember that one of the ways to meet your needs is to find a place in which you can complain without being told to wean. There are so many people to which I've learned not to complain when tired, touched out... or about to scream because I can't do anything when "I" want to do it! They just think I should wean and get my life back... excuse me for being human... I am allowed to love my life (with nursing) and still have a bad day.
> QUOTE]
> I totally agree with you! There are lots of things that we as moms should be able to vent about! For instance try to tell my husband she was being a little snot all day and he will say why don't you just go back to work. I just shake my head and move on its not what I mean at all! A few minutes to myself would be nice though!!!! So I hope that I conveyed in my previous post to do what you need to do to get through it. Whether it be night weaning or whether it be to just come here and complain!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

In a recent discussion, our beloved leader Cynthia came up with this paragraph. I loved it so much that I asked her if we could use it on these boards for such discussions:

Quote:

*
When a mama comes to Mothering seeking advice and support when she feels like she can't do it anymore I would expect the responses to be advice on how to pull through it while upholding the AP principles that she obviously values and believes to be the very best thing for her child. If she had thought otherwise I don't think she would have come to Mothering for input.*

This basically goes along the lines of what playfulmama wrote: it's nice to come to a place where you can complain/vent, and not have people make suggestions that go against your core values, but rather commisserate and sympathize.

I hope the OP feels this mesage of support coming through as well.


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## slightly crunchy (Jul 7, 2003)

I just have some words of support. It will pass! You know this in your heart but it is hard to remember in the thick of it.

I have been there many times. And yes, I am a SAHM to a cosleeping toddler that nursed all night long past 18 months old. I posted on this board asking about night weaning when he was 15 months old. I started to try it at one point but never made it past the first night of the Jay Gordon plan (so never actually made it to refuaing nursing). Thought about night weaning a lot, though. I never did and I am *so glad*.

Doing any sort of weaning at that age just went against everything I felt I was doing right as a parent.

My own experience is that ds went down to about 2 night nurse/wakings some time after 18 months (with some fall back when teething). He started sleeping a 6 hour stretch at 22-23 months, right after cutting the last of his baby teeth. And even if this doesn't happen with your baby, waiting a few more months can make all the difference in how easy it will be to night wean.

Follow your heart.


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## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Just wanted to sympathize. I just weaned dd at 3.....but she was much like you described your dc, a frequent nurser. But in her case, cosleeping was also keeping her awake. I didnt wean her, but it was hard getting thru those days. I slept when she slept basically. Then around 2- 2 1/2, when the teething had finally subsided, dh started putting her to bed and we side car'd the crib on his side.When she woke in the night, he would pat her on the back till she fell asleep. It was easier than I thought it would be. I followed dr Jays and NO CRY SLEEP SOLUTIONs recommendations and got alot of great advise. It was such a relief to have her sleep thru the night. Looking back, I wish I had done that sooner, and still kept day nursings. At 3, I was done, and she was down to 2 or 3 x a day. So it was pretty easy to wean and it was definetly time. I never thought Id nurse as long as I did, but I know there are benefits.

BUt sometimes, I would have given every penny I had for ONE good night of uninterrupted sleep. I think moms need to do what works for them. The moment I started to feel resentful about nursings.....I knew it was time to wean.


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## ariadne (Jul 16, 2003)

[/b]

This basically goes along the lines of what playfulmama wrote: it's nice to come to a place where you can complain/vent, and not have people make suggestions that go against your core values, but rather commisserate and sympathize.

[/QUOTE]

I just went back to reread the original post to see if I had misunderstood it in some way. I think there is definitely some venting going on, but also a genuine need to hear someone say "If you are ready to do this, it's okay. You are the only one who knows in your heart what is best for you."
It seems as if AP moms are not allowed to have depression, but as one who has been there and stared down into the well, I have to say that this is what can come of extreme burn out. A mom needs to do _whatever_ she feels is necessary at that point. If you have not had true postpartum depression you have absolutely no idea what this is like. Part of being an AP mom is being there for your child in a close, loving way. A burnt out/depressed mom is not able to do that.


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

Chrysalis DC,

How are things going? Are you hanging in there? Getting the help you need? Would love to have an update and hope that things are better!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ariadne*
It seems as if AP moms are not allowed to have depression...

Well, considering we have a whole forum dedicated to PPD, I can't see where one gets the idea that AP mamas aren't "allowed" to be depressed.

Quote:

A mom needs to do _whatever_ she feels is necessary at that point....
And while I realize that a mother in this case needs to meet her own needs, I believe there are generally more options than just throwing away the needs of the least able to defend those needs, kwim? I think we mamas are too used to mothering in isolation. When we need a break, we turn to the babies first, and they should be the last to give up their needs. Our husbands, partners, in-laws, and other family should be the first ones to bend, give up something of themselves to help. Not the child. Sure, that might not always be possible, but it should be the first direction in which we look, none of this "well, my husband feels neglected" BS. Adults are capable of putting aside their needs better than babies.


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

Piglet I can't help but notice that you are VERY dedicated to being a mom! For that kudos to you. However I would also like to say that while I am so glad that you can handle the demands of APing not all moms can. My daughter is fine and well adjusted she doesn't misbehave in public,and loves to read. I don't feel that sleeping in her own room has damaged her at all! I don't think that it would have hurt her to co sleep or be AP'd either. I just want to remind you that I feel that I am teaching my daughter coping skills and patience.
Meanwhile I babysit for my friend now and then. She Attachment parents her daughter who is 18mos old now. The little girl tends to not do well playing with other children, she doesn't take naps alone she just SCREAMS and I eventually have to lay with her until she falls asleep. while we were out today she was pulling posters off of walls, throwing toys, dragging chairs, and throwing herself on the floor whenever she has not gotten her way! So while I can see the benefits of Aping I can also see major differances in the development of these two girls both of which were breastfed and not allowed sugar! Both of which have stay home moms. Perhaps it is their personalities! At any rate my point is that I do not see any damage done by not aping, while I might consider it for other children I don't feel that I would take it to extremes. Extremes being my own sanity. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers I just felt that someone should know that my daughter is just as well adjusted. Parenting is about common sense, and instinct, you know what your baby needs in your heart and that is all you can do for them!


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## madsandandy (Feb 3, 2004)

To Angel04345

It's just my opinion that it's probably not the AP that is causing that little girl you watch to act like that.....unless there's something going on at the home that you don't know about....otherwise it is probably her personality and she may have some sensory integration issues and may be a high needs child.

my dd slept in her own room from 6 months on and while i don't think it damaged her i do wonder if she could have benefited from the family bed as she was a high needs baby....but maybe it helped us all sleep better...hard to know. ds does sleep with me and we are having a difficult time right now with nightwakings but their may be some food allergies or reflux going on so we have to get that figured out before doing anything else....but i may consider moving him to his own room at some point after we figure out the medical stuff... to see if he does sleep better there because this sleep deprivation has been going on too too long for me and my mental and physical health. so i guess my point is..is that you can still do AP even if your child sleeps in another room.

okay...just my 2 cents.

beth
momma to anderson 11 months and madeline 3.5 years


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

I am so glad that no one took what I said harshly! I was honestly not looking forward to getting on tonight for fear that I had ruffled someones feathers! I guess to be honest I don't know exactly what else is involved in APing. Do you know some place that I could read up on it in more detail? I know the basics but not all the theorys behind it.


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## madsandandy (Feb 3, 2004)

Hi Angel,

you can read almost any book by Dr. William Sears and find info about APing such as The Attachment Parenting Book and The Baby Book and The Discipline Book. Also there is a book by Katie Allison Granju called Attachment Parenting. All great references. You should be able to check them out from you library.

Responding to your children's needs is a big point of AP...it's not just about the family bed.

Hope this helps.

beth


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## ntengwall (Feb 21, 2003)

AP is mostly just about meeting your child's needs--sounds like common sense right? LOL You can also go to Attachment Parent International at: http://www.attachmentparenting.org/ to learn more about it. Reading the 8 Ideals should catch you up


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

well, i've got the feisty kids. they are definitely made that way without my intellectual consent. and it comes from somewhere familiar, like me and dh??!!! so yah, some of us are more like intense wild animals than others.

ps jennymom, thanks for replying to my question. i find it bizarre the classification of allergy versus sensitivity. i'm have sensitive skin and itch often but i would never consider feeling out of control to be subtle..... and for my family i do watch the food as well. foods can be drugs too in that they have effects, if when we are not technically allergic.


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

Thanks for the link! I have to say though that if that is APing and it can be done with her sleeping in her own bed then I AP too! All of what is said is common sense! Every mother already knows how to quiet a baby and that your suppose to hold them during all types of feedings. I knew that the snugli would quiet her when she was an infant. I did all of those things naturally I didn't need to read about them! I think that the misconceptions come from women who say that your not Aping if your not co sleeping and breast feeding a 2year old to age three! Anyways thanks for the link! I am sure there is more info there I will read it all! Have a great weekend ladies. I have to take Ali for her 20mos pics!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

angel, the idea that you are not "AP" if you don't cosleep or do extended breastfeeding is a total myth, and seems to be perpetuated more by those who don't do those things than anybody who does (we've had countless threads about this here!). I'm glad you are learning more about it, and I agree with the definitions above. AP is about doing what is best for your child, and meeting their needs. That can be done in many ways. while cosleeping, for example, is the best thing for MOST children, there are always the odd exception. It would not be AP to force a child to sleep in the family bed if they were much happier in their crib (and I don't mean after weeks of crib-training, lol).

It's great that you found those things such as slinging and responding to your baby's need to be held as "natural" but for many, if not most, women that instinct is either so far repressed as to be absent, or they are pounded over and over again with the message that these things are bad for baby and "spoil" them. You are lucky that you have never been suppressed like that, and were not only so in touch with your instincts, but not afraid to honour them.

To me, it isn't about whether you can "handle" the demands of AP. Either it's a priority for you to raise your kids a certain way, or it isn't. You do what you do, or don't do, because you believe strongly in it. I don't feel "very dedicated"...I just do what comes naturally (after tons of research allowed me to trust those instincts!). I find AP to be the easiest way of parenting. Mostly b/c such things as going on a weeks vacation when my baby is a few weeks old is not the least bit appealing to me. There are tough days, but even the spanking/CIO/early-forced-weaning parents have tough days. Frankly, I'll take mine over theirs anyday, lol.

To get back on topic: babies sleeping in their cribs is not necessarily "damaging" unless the child had to be put through Detachment Therapy (CIO and all those other harsh methods) to get there. But it does carry risks, and those should be balanced with all other considerations. Again, not every single baby will want to cosleep, and AP is about meeting the childs' needs. If a child truly expresses a desire to sleep alone, the parent owes it to the child to do that.

I think the biggest obstacle mothers face is NOT being a good "AP" mama, but having the resources women had for so many thousands of years around them, rather than parenting in isolation. It pains me to see baby's needs suffering, or being put at the bottom of the list, because it came down to "mama or me", when it should have been "mama or DH" or "mama or MIL", etc...


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## Pelgie (Jun 10, 2004)

As we all know, every child is different. We've been co-sleeping with our son (a "high needs" baby) since the day he was born. There were many many nights when he nursed every hour and I worried that I wouldn't be able to keep my energy levels up during the day from such disrupted sleep (I work outside the home and my husband is stay at home daddy). I compensated by going to be early and telling myself- this too shall pass.

As he has grown older his sleeping habits have gradually improved/evolved. He's 19 months now and just a few months ago when he went down to one nap he just started sleeping better at night. He's had a few nights when he's slept from 8 pm to 5 am without waking to nurse and others (like last night) when something seems to be bothering him and he doesn't sleep as well as he could (up 3 or 4 times to nurse).

He also was the kind of baby who wouldn't nap more than 25 minutes if he wasn't being held. This has changed in the last couple of months as well, to where he'll sleep an hour to an hour and a half in his crib for naps.

Prior to these changes I used to stress about how I was going to get him to sleep better for naps and at night. We tried some of the ideas from the No Cry Sleep Solution and a few seemed to help. However, it has been my experience that all changes come in due time when the child is ready to take the next step. As parents we can help the child along somewhat, but I believe following the childs cues is the best way. Maybe I've just gotten lucky that things have turned out this way with our son.

All this aside, you need to follow your own gut feelings because if you are burnt out and resentful you won't be able to be the Mommy you want to be. I just thought I'd share that sometimes you might be surprised when things turn a corner on their own course.


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

Just a thought but is your baby waking because she is sleeping with you? Is YOUR tossing and turning or your partners waking her? This should be considered as well. Perhaps an extension on the bed would help? Or maybe a toddler bed in your room?


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

A long thread.

I just had a few more ideas to prevent burnout.

You say you are not getting dressed til the afternoon. Why? Surely with a 13 mo you can find time to take a shower or bath, perhaps together, and get you both dressed? Or at least wash your face! Toddlers thrive on routine. I would always get us all dressed at least by 10 and get up and out the door. Mine loved to be out and about, even if it was just to the grocery store or library or mall. Playgroup or a playdate. A park or lake on nice days. Even a McDs playspace if we had to. Toddlers usually ask to nurse less if they are out in the big exciting world.

(Tip, if you are being anal about a clean house, stop it now! Just do what is most important and relax your standards for now. You will have lots of time for a clean house when your babies are older--or grown up and gone!







)

Then home for lunch and nap, or snack (nurse), nap and then lunch if she is taking 2 naps.

In the afternoon, snack (nurse) and more outdoor time, playing in the yard, playing with a friend, or another errand, or a stroller or walk in the sling. Nap if she needs it. Sometimes if I was tired but fighting a nap, I would take a car ride, then when she fell asleep, park in a shady spot and read or just rest.

Home, dinner, quiet play, bath and stories, bed. Ofteh I would make dinner during the morning nap so I wouldn't have to make it during the fussy late afternoon, dad coming home time.

Now, around about 10-12 mos, I started having a young teen girl over once a week as a mother's helper. She could entertain the toddler/older child(ren) while I rested or did some chores uninterrupted, which can seem like a luxury. If the babysitter is old and responsible enough, eventually you can leave toddler with her and go out for a date in the aft or early evening with dh.

When my babies were 5 mos I was able to leave them with dh and a sippy of water and he would entertain them for 3 hours while I went to an evening LLL mtg once a month--alone! I got a break and lots of moral support for APing and nursing a toddler. Dad got a taste of what a hard good job I do all day! My kids always went to bed late (9-10) so I would be home to nurse toddlers to sleep.

One last idea. Have dh get up with toddler on weekend mornings while you sleep in an extra hour or two! Or have him watch toddler a couple early mornings a week, and you go out to an exercise class, or whatever you like to do for exercise.

HTH!


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## angel04345 (Apr 20, 2004)

Those are all great suggestions


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## chrysalisDC (Dec 29, 2003)

my dear dear mammas and supporters out there,
how can i tell you how immensely helpful your ideas, stories, and messages of encouragement have been to me since i posted the original message.

i printed out and read through the first pages of answers (a couple of nights after i posted) *along with my husband*. it helped him understand where i was coming from and see that other women and men have gone through the same thing. it was such a breakthrough.

i just went back and saw 2 more pages of responses! thank you thank you! and sorry to have not replied sooner, but i know i don't need to explain, right?

updates: since reading the responses with my husband, he became much more proactive at helping me find a mother's helper (draft the ad, post it, screen potential helpers and interview them) because i hardly have time to brush my teeth let alone the focus to get on the ball enough to write and post ads for helpers!

we have enlisted the help of a young woman who helps me with the little angel and around the house twice weekly. it has made such a difference.

the little one still nurses but has taken more to solid food. she has a mild milk allergy so i tried "rice dream" rice milk the other night and she liked it. she still wants her mommy milk though and still wakes at night. but the rice milk thing has been encouraging too!

i have accepted the situation more -- but it sure is easier to count your blessings when you have 5 minutes every now and then to really reflect on your life, isn't it! i have realized that this is the flow of life right now and it just doesn't feel right to fight it.

i support all the mamas out there who choose to do what they can to save their energy and sanity so as not to jeopardize their ability to be good mothers both during the night and during the day (i.e. night wean). i think we all must support each other and know that there is no right solution for everyone, just as many posters here have said.

i think i just had to turn a corner and stick it out, and also i am blessed with a supportive and sensitive husband -- who, although he needs to work a ton, still sees the value in helping me find a mother's helper. we also have the means to do so and i realize not everyone has that so i am grateful. in another situation who knows what i would have decided to do, but thank goodness for this forum where there are so many intelligent and helpful people to give me insight at every turn.

thank you again ladies for all the support. my little one is 14 months now and just as special as ever, still co-sleeping and nursing at night. i am learning to take better care of myself without feeling guilty and to ask for what i need -- it is one of the more valuable lessons i've learned.

many hugs and fond wishes. hope to return the favor sometime.
CDC


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## tea olive (Apr 15, 2002)

cdc, i'm so glad for you!

you may be interested in trying goat milk as well.

much love, casina


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

So glad to hear a happy ending!!


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