# Blech!



## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

http://www.newsobserver.com/689/story/434403.html

More on the Pearls. Warning, very disturbing.


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## cravenab00 (May 25, 2005)

this is the most disgusting thing i have read in a long time.

i am honestly nauseated.uke uke uke


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I truly, truly felt sick reading that.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I can't even find the words to express my disgust. SO wrong in SO many ways. Those poor, poor babies.


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## nurnur (Apr 25, 2006)

uke need I say more

I couldn't even read the whole thing ~ What is wrong with these people?!?

Carrie ~ mama to 4


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## mamatoliam (Oct 31, 2005)

As a Christian all I can say is this sounds like a cult but it is obviously not Christianity or how Jesus would want us to raise our children. I am in tears at the thought of someone wanting to know what to spank a baby UNDER ONE with. In Canada that is illegal, thank God. If I knew someone following this I would report them to the authorities ASAP as it is child abuse in any sane persons mind.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

WTF????

"We're preparing her to be someone's mate one day"
First of all....YUCK!! Prepare her to be a person!! And, besides that...what kind of marriage are we talking about if switching an infant is preparing her to be someone's mate????

And, I don't even know what to say to the idea of spanking in joy, not in anger...

uke uke uke uke


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## RootBeerFloat (Nov 22, 2005)

I want to know what's wrong with the Tennessee child welfare officials who reviewed his work and decided it's okay to beat infants with a switch. Seriously!!!!!


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

this is repulsive.

Quote:

Mothers never suspect a backlash because Pearl's books and newsletters are filled with stories of happy, godly children. The trick: training them while they are young. He urges fathers to tempt the little ones with an off-limit toy. When the child reaches for it, the father is advised to swat his hand or leg with a rod.

Pearl explains in "To Train Up a Child" that he used this strategy to keep his kids from going near a shotgun. Pearl also gets creative: When his children were toddlers and strayed to the pond's edge, he pushed them in and let them flounder to prove how dangerous the pond could be.
i feel such rage for this man...


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelemiller*
i feel such rage for this man...

You know, I have to say that after reading that article, I came to the conclusion that there was something more than a little not quite right with him. Especially the part about how he's very reclusive and the knife-throwing.

The most disturbing part to me was the part about how Debi has been the one who has really made it so famous and runs the business. Not to be sexist, but I think it's one thing for a man to be like that, but for a mother... That's what I also thought about the woman who was a child development major and then let her dh talk her into using Pearl. There's got to be something else going on there.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

See, I can't even read stuff like that. I mean, I know it is all ostrich in the sand and all, but sometimes I like to live in my own little world where I pretend we at MDC are the majority.

It truly sickens me these people.

Quote:

Pearl's books warn parents to never whip in anger, always in joy.
That has to be one of the most vile things I think I have ever read regarding parenting....among their other *gems*.

Poor, poor, children.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I wish there was something...anything...we could do...

Anyone in for a jolly good book burning?


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

There is just nothing that can be said.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Edited because the post that offended me has been removed. I am leaving just the last part of my response.

I know this article makes you angry, but be angry at the Pearls. Don't take it out on mothers with bitten nipples or any other frustrated parents looking for help.


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## nurnur (Apr 25, 2006)

:


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Yes, this is vile. And for the writer to call him a "parenting guru" is whitewashing his evil. These people are not "parenting gurus," their book is not "child-rearing advice," they are not practicing "child training," and they are *definately* not practicing Christian child-rearing. They are child-torture fetishists. They get pleasure from the suffering of little babies. They shouldn't be given the veneer of respectability of being put in the same category as legitimate child-rearing advisors.

Pearl is a parenting guru like a serial killer is a population control expert.


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## punkrockmommy (Oct 31, 2005)

I want to cry and be violent all at the same time. I cant stand people who treat their kids like that!!! These people who do these methods should not have children!!!


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## stiles' mummy (Jan 16, 2005)

I don't know what to say. This breaks my heart.


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## Pandora114 (Apr 21, 2005)

Burning his books means buying them, which means money goes into his pocket either way. Sure you are destroying the word, but you will be helping the man.

Your best bet is to write to any bookstore that carries his drivel and organize a boycot of any book chain that carries his books.

Money is power


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

I think it's even more sickening that people are so out of touch with their instincts as parents that they could actually do this to their children. What is going on that they don't just throw his book in the trash saying, "This is awful!"

I am constantly seeking information, but I have a highly evolved BS filter that allows me to just discount information that is contrary to my philosophy. Do other people not do this? I am boggled and sickened.


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## CaliMommie (Feb 11, 2004)

Horrible, just horrible







:


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

The Pearls' sickening drivel just breaks my heart.

Particularly striking to me was the woman who commented that she had hit her baby "more than 30 times a day" and began to wonder where the Pearl's promised "joy" in hitting was to be found. She also worried that one time she might get carried away and really harm her child. Such is the slippery slope of giving ourselves permission to hit our children.

If I ever come across a bookstore selling this vile material, I WILL immediately speak with the owner or manager and do everything in my power to have it removed or to boycott that store. I would encourage others to do the same.

Why, oh why do we accept violence against children in our culture????














I'd vote for a law to ban hitting children in one hot second. And the Pearls' criminal enterprise would be out of business.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Those "people" disgust me!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've been clinging to ds2 all day today. Every time I think about this thread, I just wrap my arms around him and hug him close. It makes me soooo sad to think about a baby boy ds2's age being _switched_.







What is wrong with people? Pull my baby's hair for biting while he's breastfeeding??? Pull his hair, because he sometimes gets a little confused since he started solids and is teething??


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## mmgarda (Dec 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
Pearl is a parenting guru like a serial killer is a population control expert.

Bwaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha! At least something here made me smile. Thanks for a little light in the midst of this awful darkness.


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## LISSA~K (Jun 30, 2005)

Whipping in joy and "switching" infants with willow branches?!!! What kind of sick freak would even follow that advice? I feel like throwing up.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

uke uke uke







uke uke







uke uke uke







uke uke uke







uke uke uke







uke uke uke
Is all I can say and to the precious children experiencing this day in and day out














































































































































May the children one day




























:














and just be children. Not submissive scared people


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
I know this article makes you angry, but be angry at the Pearls. Don't take it out on mothers with bitten nipples or any other frustrated parents looking for help.

Honestly,I am angry at both. I get frustrated with my kids,but would *never* in a million years read even 2 paragraphs in that horrible book and think it was ok to do the things the Perals advocate for my children.







:

As for the Pearls,and the adoptive "mother" who killed another woman's child thru these disgusting methods,







I cannot even imagine what that little boys real mother is feeling right now.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L&IsMama*
As for the Pearls,and the adoptive "mother" who killed another woman's child thru these disgusting methods,







I cannot even imagine what that little boys real mother is feeling right now.









Please, please, please don't slam adoption like this. WE don't know why (abuse, death, abandonment, neglect, age, etc) the birth mother didn't have custody, but adoptive parents ARE "real" parents.

Yes, this woman did a terrible thing, and the Pearls are evil, but it's NOTHING to do with adoption.


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Envirobecca*
I know this article makes you angry, but be angry at the Pearls. Don't take it out on mothers with bitten nipples or any other frustrated parents looking for help.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L&IsMama*
Honestly,I am angry at both. I get frustrated with my kids,but would *never* in a million years read even 2 paragraphs in that horrible book and think it was ok to do the things the Perals advocate for my children.







:




I agree completely, L&I's Mama! The Pearls teachings are just words on a page until some parent actually internalizes them and acts upon them. People have to be held accountable for their actions. There is no excuse for child abuse.


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
Please, please, please don't slam adoption like this. WE don't know why (abuse, death, abandonment, neglect, age, etc) the birth mother didn't have custody, but adoptive parents ARE "real" parents.

Yes, this woman did a terrible thing, and the Pearls are evil, but it's NOTHING to do with adoption.

I'm not slamming adoption here. And,honestly,could the reason he was removed from his birthparents(not counting death of the parents or abandonment) have been any worse than the fate he suffered at the hands of his adoptive "mother"?








Doesn't get much worse than being smothered to death. :cry


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisac77*
I am constantly seeking information, but I have a highly evolved BS filter that allows me to just discount information that is contrary to my philosophy. Do other people not do this? I am boggled and sickened.

I don't know, I can see how it happens. I have a few friends like this - my heart aches for them. They've been victims of abuse, every time they trust their own judgement they make a terrible mistake (usually involving some uber-jerky guy), and they really, really love their children and want to do right by them. And, since they're used to being told what to do by some know-it-all man, it's easy for them to think they're doing the right thing, or at least to ignore their little voice, which they easily discount all the time anyway.

I guess I'm regretting starting this thread because I think that these parents really deserve a little more compassion, now that I've thought about it a little more. In my experience with "child abusers", I've never come across someone "evil" (though my view is no doubt jaded, as I don't even believe in evil). They're just misguided, misunderstood, frustrated parents without appropriate resources.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L&IsMama*
I'm not slamming adoption here. And,honestly,could the reason he was removed from his birthparents(not counting death of the parents or abandonment) have been any worse than the fate he suffered at the hands of his adoptive "mother"?







Doesn't get much worse than being smothered to death. :cry

Just as long as you put quotes around the word "mother" or "father" for ANY parent who kills their child, birth parent or otherwise. Adoption had nothing to do with this child's death.

One last derailment, then this thread can get back on topic: take a few classes on trauma and child development, and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about fates worse than smothering. By birth parents, step-parents, adoptive parents, guardians, foster parents, and other relatives.


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L&IsMama*
...As for the Pearls,and the adoptive "mother" who killed another woman's child thru these disgusting methods,







I cannot even imagine what that little boys *real mother* is feeling right now.









Poor choice of words here. Giving birth to a child in no way entitles you to think of yourself as his or her 'real' parent.

This child more than likely never had a real mother. He did have a biological mother, the story of which we know nothing. And he had an adoptive parent, whom we DO know did not fill the role of a mother in his life, unless you believe beatings and abuse are compatible with motherhood, which I know none of us do.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

"Pearl's methods -- "switching" infants with willow tree branches and older children with belts and shrub cuttings -- make him a controversial character."

What on earth can an infant do to "need" to be switched? How could any body read that sentance and NOT see red flags. No matter what tiny corner of the universe you live?


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## ImoKit (Jan 20, 2006)

At least the article though descriptive and unnecessarily graphic seems to be critical of the methods. The more negative publicity they get, the more people will be wary of being seduced by them, thus less children will have to suffer.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ImoKit*
At least the article though descriptive and unnecessarily graphic seems to be critical of the methods.

I don't think it's unnecessarily graphic, and I think the fact that it's descriptive is a good thing. If people see this stuff out of context in a newspaper article, I think they're far more likely to reject it than if they get sucked into some kind of bs "God wants us to break our children's will" crap within the books. One of the ways that people like this get their hooks in people is by making them believe the underlying theory (that children's "will" needs to be broken for their own good) _before_ introducing them to the brutal reality of switching a baby. I think that article was almost a public service announcement!


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## LISSA~K (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L&IsMama*
...As for the Pearls,and the adoptive "mother" who killed another woman's child thru these disgusting methods, I cannot even imagine what that little boys real mother is feeling right now.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed*
Poor choice of words here. Giving birth to a child in no way entitles you to think of yourself as his or her 'real' parent.

This child more than likely never had a real mother. He did have a biological mother, the story of which we know nothing. And he had an adoptive parent, whom we DO know did not fill the role of a mother in his life, unless you believe beatings and abuse are compatible with motherhood, which I know none of us do.

Thank you for saying that so perfectly in a non-threatening way, I was about to post something not so nice.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ImoKit*
At least the article though descriptive and unnecessarily graphic seems to be critical of the methods. The more negative publicity they get, the more people will be wary of being seduced by them, thus less children will have to suffer.

Sadly I don't think this is true. These people are fully aware of what they're doing, and they consider the mainstream media as well as cps and anyone else concerned about children's welfare to be part of "the conspiracy." Bad press only feeds their persecution complex. In their minds, we are not sincerely concerned about the mistreatment of children, but using it as a pretext to undermine morality and build the libertine-socialist mega-state.

What these kinds of articles *will* do, I think, is inform normal people of how bad the child-torture fetishists really are. I was familiar with some of these groups for years without knowing about their beating babies. There is no excuse for justifying this kind of abuse as a "parenting choice." But most people, including I would guess, most social workers, have no idea what these people are about.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

You know, I was nearly taken in by this book. I have a good friend who read it and liked some of it. She recommended I read it. I did, and tried to follow some of the advice given. However, thankfully, I am just to lazy to be consistent about spanking my child that often. As a new mom, I really didn't know how to parent very well. I've learned a lot of things the hard way, and I hope that I'm not blasted to everlasting damnation for that. But, I now know that there are better ways to teach my children, to help them grow and mature, to be the parent I want to be. I know that I don't need a switch to gain their cooperation, and really that's what I want, cooperation, not fearful obedience. I want my children to know I love them, to not be afraid of me, and to know that no matter what they do, I will still give them a hug. I don't want children who are afraid of me, and that is the fruit of constant spanking (or switching, if you want to call it that).

I do not recommend Pearl's books. I think there are better books to read, and better ways to gain your child's cooperation. Reading and dialoguing with moms here has helped me so much, and I am thankful that I can be here. I have friends who spank, and although I like them, it is hard for me to be around them, because I see how different their relationship is with their children from what I want mine to be with my children. This is one reason I choose to limit my time with those families. I need better role models, ones who encourage me to listen to, and be gentle with my children, not ones who think the best answer is found in a switch.


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

Well, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". Pearl is following his teachings. Gee, is that not what Jesus meant? You think maybe he was meaning to teach patience and gentleness, to recognize that children should be treated with compassion and love?

Jesus also said "Whatever is done to the littlest of these is also done to me". Would Pearl whip the Christ?

To me, it's very clear that Christ believed that children should be taught and guided, not beaten and whipped.


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
These people are fully aware of what they're doing, and they consider the mainstream media as well as cps and anyone else concerned about children's welfare to be part of "the conspiracy." Bad press only feeds their persecution complex. In their minds, we are not sincerely concerned about the mistreatment of children, but using it as a pretext to undermine morality and build the libertine-socialist mega-state.

I couldn't agree more, Brigianna! And couldn't have said it better. Spot on!


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeosMama*
Well, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". Pearl is following his teachings. Gee, is that not what Jesus meant? You think maybe he was meaning to teach patience and gentleness, to recognize that children should be treated with compassion and love?

Jesus also said "Whatever is done to the littlest of these is also done to me". Would Pearl whip the Christ?

To me, it's very clear that Christ believed that children should be taught and guided, not beaten and whipped.

You're absolutely right, and as a Christian it bothers me that these people twist the loving message of Jesus into this sick stuff. One of the things I say often is that "suffer the little children" does not mean "make the little children suffer."

But I would like to point out that the Pearls and other child-torture fetishists are not Christians in the sense that you and I think of it. They are Christian Reconstructionists, another matter entirely. Comparing them to regular Christians is like comparing Al-Qaeda to regular Muslims. And child-beating is just one manifestation of their overall worldview, which is a violent, totalitarian, illiberal, hate-based ideology. Children are small and have no legal rights, but they would be beating all of us heretics and dissidents with plumbing pipes if given half a chance.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeosMama*
Jesus also said "Whatever is done to the littlest of these is also done to me". Would Pearl whip the Christ?

Yes.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Beck relied on his advice to teach her daughter, then 3, to stay in bed after being tucked in. After 23 nights of getting switched with a willow tree branch, her daughter, now 12, finally relented. "Mike Pearl taught me my daughter needed to know there was a limit," Beck said.

Oh dear Lord.


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

:


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeosMama*
Well, Jesus said "Suffer the little children". Pearl is following his teachings. Gee, is that not what Jesus meant? You think maybe he was meaning to teach patience and gentleness, to recognize that children should be treated with compassion and love?

.

LOL...I always thought "Suffer the little children" meant that we as adults should tolerate them.


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## BigYellowAndUgly (Apr 27, 2006)

Those people are the most loathsome perveyers of drivel on the face of the earth today.

They belong in jail.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Wow. Just wow.

I wonder where the parenting instincts are of people who read these books and abide by them. Ezzo, Pearl... how can it feel right to do this to your kids? And if it feels awful why would you keep doing it?


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

one day i was in a hardware store and thought to go look at the "plumbing supply line" that he endorses using. All that I could find was like small solid pvc pipe.. it wouldn't bend!

I went home and told my mom that if someone so much as touched my DOG with something like that, I would kill them. And she understood, even though the whole family spanks!


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## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

I think I'm gonna be sick... People actually do that???? I used to be a spanker, but don't anymore. But I would never go that far.. That's just sick and it's outright abuse!!!!! People actually think it's okay to switch their 2 year olds 30 times a day, just for being a normal 2 year old??? UGH...

And we wonder why our jails are so full..









ETA: As a Christian woman, I am sickened that these people do this under the guise of "the bible". The Bible does NOT teach stuff like this!!!!!!!!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Pearl's books warn parents to never whip in anger, always in joy.
Ohh I get it if I'm joyous about whipping my child its okay.







:









Deanna


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## TheDivineMissE (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
I wonder where the parenting instincts are of people who read these books and abide by them. Ezzo, Pearl... how can it feel right to do this to your kids? And if it feels awful why would you keep doing it?

A girl I know from a playgroup loves Ezzo. She is now using it with her second son, who is 5 months old. When she was pregnant with him she told me about this great book she read called "Babywise or something like that". I asked her if Ezzo was who she meant and she said yes. Before I could stop myself I sort of made a noise and she was completely bewildered. She had never heard all the bad press about Ezzo - she had no idea there was anything wrong with what he said. I didn't force the issue except to say he'd gotten a lot of bad publicity and she should research it, I also said I'd never use it on my children. Her husband, who by the way is a psychologist, seems not to have any issues with this as well.

I guess my point is, for her it DOES feel right. I can't understand how...they're both intellegent, well educated people. But she honestly and completely does not see a single thing wrong with overscheduling and emotionally turning off her children. That is how she and her husband prefer it.

They (her husband too!) feels that their 2.5 year old is normal in his aggression and complete lack of empathy and emotion. What's most disturbing to me is that he shows no JOY - ever. On rare occasions I can get him to laugh for real or crack a smile, but mostly his little face is blank. Her children both also have intestinal and food issues which seem to me to be related.

I've never heard her say she felt bad about the way she was raising her kids. She's never shown that she wishes she could do something different. She's a nice person - she's not frustrated or frazzled. She's just.....wired differently or something, then I am with my more AP thought process. They really do love their kids - they really do want what's best for them. They just think this IS what's best.

I am not defending her - because I do feel after reading her copy of Ezzo's book that this is not how I would raise my own child. (although, apparently her Ezzo is the updated version? and the bad parts have been edited?) I'm just explaining how good people can be involved in this lifestyle.


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## healthnutmama (Mar 16, 2005)

I couldn't get past the first paragragh. It breaks my heart that there are people that buy his garbage!


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Why arn't the Pearl's in jail, they should be!!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
I went home and told my mom that if someone so much as touched my DOG with something like that, I would kill them. And she understood, even though the whole family spanks!

That's not surprising. I've known many people who spank their kids, and every single one of them would want to puke if they read that story. When you see advice on what material to use for a switch for an infant less than a year old, someone's head is seriously screwed up.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
I wonder where the parenting instincts are of people who read these books and abide by them. Ezzo, Pearl... how can it feel right to do this to your kids? And if it feels awful why would you keep doing it?

I actually think I see how this all happens. I'm not advocating any of it. But I can see how easy it would be to be seduced by this if you have a certain history and world view. This will probably all make you hate me, but maybe it will raise everyone's compassion level a bit.

I was raised in an authoritarian household enforced by lots of spanking. While I doubt it ever got to 30 times a day, there were times when it was probably close -- but I don't really want to go back and relive the memories enough to count. With my kids, I admit that every time I get frustrated (which is a lot because I don't much like noise and mess), my first instinct is to smack someone. I'm sure its because that was what happened to me. I'm also sure that the fact that my father hates noise and mess is why it bothers me so much. Now, I fight these urges and have only lost it twice, both times when DS was really hurting DD and I struck out at him. Not good moments, by any means.

But, if you add the tendency to want to react by hitting to a personality that is easily led by authority (which somehow I escaped, don't ask me how) and/or a belief in an angry God who demands obedience from everyone, infants included, then I think it would be easy to be swayed by the Pearls et al. They claim to speak for God and that this is what God demands of his people. There are lots of teachings in Christianity that say that what God demands is hard. So, even if doing these things is hard, then the Pearls say it means you are on the right track.

The other things that the Pearls claim that make it really seductive is that this produces good children that are easy to lead and live with, that it eventually results in a house without strife or trouble. For many people, good kids and a trouble-free house is the ultimate goal. Its not what I want, I want kids that think before they act, not just obey. And I want happy kids not obedient kids. But for many, many people, this isn't what they are after.

And finally, it takes a lot of strength to stand up and say that your goals for your kids are not the same as everyone elses. Most of us here aren't into punitive parenting because we really don't want obedient children. We want cooperative kids, sure, and kids who can think and act for themselves, and we are willing to put a lot of time and effort into not breaking their will. But this is counter-culture in many places, and most people don't have the self-confidence to say "This is right" in the face of many people, many of them presented as authority figures, saying that they are wrong.

So yeah, I can look at this and see how it would be easy to fall into these traps. In fact, I've learned not to go reading these websites even in the name of "research" because I can feel just how seductive they are.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

yeah, I know people who do the pearls. probably not to the extent of some, and i admit to having read their books, at least some of them. It's just the way I was raised. But I draw the line at putting a desirable object on a table within reach of a baby and then switching their hand when they reach for it to teach them the word no. I will not set a child up to fail


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

this is terrible. i have read a lot on his website just now. disgusting,utterly disgusting


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

Evanandanna's mom, I know totally where you are coming from. I have a feeling we had very similar child hoods


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