# I was criticized by my friend about parenting



## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Hi,
I am very hurt by my friend criticizing my parenting.
My friend's boy and my daughter are turning 3 in July.

I have been looking after my friend's once a week for 2 hours while my friend is taking a class. Today I asked my friend if she can look after my girl as I need a break. She refused. She said my kid is a bit too unruly so it's hard for her to watch for her and she does not feel comfortable disciplining her when my girl misbehave. My daughter totally dominats her boy and sometimes she gets too aggressive and grabs him by the neck and takes away a toy he is holding. Of course, I don't let her get away with this and try to discipline her but I guess she did this again when I was not around.

She said that it would be too hurtful for my kid to be told off by some one else other than me. I dont know if she's right though. I feel that if my daughter does something terrible, she needs to be told off by any care giver. I don't know why it has to be me.

We also hang out together alot with our kids as we are good friends. I usually stand back and chat with her and sometimes I get so engaged in our conversation and don't watch for my daughter closely. Of course, they are in a safe environment such as a playground or playgroup. But she often interrupts our conversation and goes over to the kids and interefere with and help them when necessary. She is saying today that I'm not watching out for my daughter close enough so she often has to guide my daughter to the right direction, which should be my job. I was embarrased.

I noticed that there are two kinds of parents in our play group. One is moms who closely chase after their kids and interact with them most of time and the other is moms who let their kids play themselves and monitor them loosely from the distance while socializing with other moms I'm the latter and my friend is the former. Usually moms with younger kids watch their kids closely. I have such a hard time at home dealing with my daughter and I want to have a break from her at a play group.

Do you think 3yrs old need close supervision? I only interfere with her play when she's fighting with another kid, or showing agreesive behavior. My friend directs him all the time. I find sometimes though the kid seems a bit suppressed. One day he got gently hit by a younger toddler and couldn't fight back, but just endured it for a while and cried when I hugged him. And he was too afraid to go near him so I had to hold him for a while. I'm not saying it is good to fight back but I expected some kind of response from him.

I am good at taking criticism so I too her advice and decided to supervise my kid more closely but I don't know if constant monitoring with many rules are really that good for the age. Even if my friend is right, it still hurts to hear about what you are doing wrong with your kids when you feel like you are doing your best. But maybe she's right. Her kid is very well behaved while mine is wild. I don't give her too many rules and try to give her options to choose. I don't try to impose my will on minor things as fighting with her really wears me out.

After all, my friend is not perfect. She is having a trouble in her marriage so she is going back to Korea for a month but leaving the kid behind with her husband. I don't think that this is good parenting she's practising. She thinks that her kid will be fine without her for a month.

Sorry for my ranting. I just need to take it out to someone...Thanks.


----------



## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

There are many different approaches to parenting and in my opinion there isn't a "right" way. It sounds like your daughter is more on the aggressive side and that isn't a terrible thing. Honestly I think that girls can do with a bit more aggression. I would intervene when she is hitting/biting/being mean but otherwise kids do need to learn to deal with one another. Being a helicopter parent is not better.

You are never going to please everyone and you would make yourself crazy trying.


----------



## Just Elsa (May 18, 2009)

If your child has a habit (not one time but repeatedly, which is what it sounds like you're saying) of hurting her child, it's her job to keep her kid safe from yours. If you haven't gotten to a point where you can make your kid stop, I understand her concern about being able to do so without you around.

This does not make you a bad mom, your kid a bad kid or her a bad friend. It just means this is a bad time to leave your child with her. Sounds like she's got a lot of her own worries right now and can't handle the phase your kid is in. I know it's hard not to take it personally, but try not to.


----------



## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

I feel your pain, mama! Nobody likes to be criticized about the kids' behavior. What kind of discipline does your friend apply to her boy? You mentioned your friend is Korean? In my experience, Korean parents are very strict with their children. I read in a Korean magazine recently that the most common first word of Korean children is "thank you"








.

My DD is a bit wild too, and she thrives on being able to learn and explore on her own. I try to let her do her own thing, because it is what she needs. All kids are different though. Honestly, good for you for taking the criticism seriously and trying to make positive changes, but only you can assess what your kid needs!


----------



## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Being honest here...

I dont think AL 3 year olds need close supervision. But YES some do. My kids are 3 1/2 and 2. My son doesn't USUALLY need close supervision - but if he's going through a phase then I know those trips I need a close eye on him. My daughter can be aggressive, so when we were out I used to keep a closer eye on her BUT then I realized she isn't aggressive when we are out she plays great with others. So, I donn't have ot keep such a close eye. If your daughter is going through a phase right now where she gest aggressive a lot in those settings then yes I do think you need to keep a closer eye on her until the phase passes or is resolved.. I find that it works more like this for me:

Keep a close eye on them, they get older keep less of an eye on them, they go through a phase keep a close eye on them again, they pass it and I can give them more space again, repeat repeat repeat. As they get older the phases are further and further apart.

I dont think parents need to be helicopter parents either though. Just pay more attention in some stages of their childs development and be able to be more distant in others. Hovering not necessary though, even when we keep a close eye and stay in closer proximity we aren't on their back ya know?

I do think her advice as harsh if how you are saying it is how she said to you. And I think its really inconsiderate for her to have you watch her child but not be willing to watch yours.

I don't think your child is wild because you do a bad job and hers is calm because she does a good job. personality has a role too. You are doing a good job, but in my own parenting I find there is always something I can learn to make life go more smoothly for my family.

Also I dont know how you discipline your child or "tell her off" or what she does with her own child but some people just aren't comfortable disciplining other people's children. Even if you say its okay for her to do so maybe she doesnt feel comfortable doing it the way you do it, and worries you wouldnt like th way she does it - and so since she thinks the correction is needed more frequently at this stage in your daughters life she just feels uncomfortable. Would have been nice for her to talk to you though and ask how you ould want her to handle it or if it would be okay if she handled it "this" way or something.

Also you have to keep in mind when someone has a child that isn't aggressive or is rarely aggressive they have a hard time understanding what its like to have an aggressive child. See if someone hurts my kids I tend to my child and I am sad they got hurt but I'm not mad at the other child or parent. Some people get overly defensive and protective of their child being hurt. Certainly one could understand why someone gets upset by their child being hurt - but for those of us who parent more aggressive children we understand more when someone hurts our child because our child has been the shoes of aggressor too.

Really though, I experience parents on both sides of this story all the time. If their is child being aggressive with my child I dont sit there and worry about how dare that parent not to redirecting them. Just because I would doesn't mean another parent will and I dont need to worry about them or their child, just my own child. Not to mention, perhaps this is new and so the parent doesnt realize they are at a stage where they need to pay more attention until after the aggression takes place. Perhaps because she is your friend she felt it would be okay to say something though, since its a recurring situation. At the same time, I know what its like to be on the other side of it too, where my child is being the aggressor and people are looking down on me for it. so I dont think she should look down on you, if I were in her shoes I wouldnt have said anything, but if I were in your shoes I would be paying more mind during my childs aggressive phases when I'm aware of them.

Again not about being a helicopter parent. I just realize my child could hurt another child, and just because I dont want to be a helicopter parent doesnt mean someone else doesn't want to be. Just because I can deal with someone bonking my child on the head doesnt mean another parent can. I just try to respect that but still respect myself at the same time. And also to respect my daughter (the aggressor) because some people are not so kind in how they react to another person's child, and it would not be okay with me if someone else disciplined my child in my presence, but some people think they have the right to if you aren't doing anything. I would rather be the one to guide my child. At the same time, I am okay with other care givers guiding my children, but thats because they are someone I CHOSE to do so IN MY ABSENCE who will do it in a way that respect my parenting and my children.

Also consider why you may feel so defensive. Some of your statement sounded kind of critical of your friend too. Perhaps you are both being a little critical of each other? Your interactions with her are relevant and your situations with your DD is relevant, but faults as a parent as hers. Knowing her faults will not help you be the best parent you can be, and generally even though we say things like this out of defense it doesnt make us feel any better about our own parenting.

Just look at where you are at. Not in comparison to her. Just you ad your DD. Do YOU think its okay for her to hurt other children? Do YOU think it would benefit everyone if you were able to intervene before things escalated that way? Or do YOU think you your approach is right? Don't worry what she thinks or what she does. Don't let that stand in the way from you doing what you honestly believe if best for your child. Is it better for her to have you help her get past aggression without using it so kids will continue to want to play with her? Or do you think its more likely to have a helicopter parenting effect. Only you know the right answers for you family, my only advice is to make sure you are asking yourself (what you think are) the right questions.


----------



## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

It is hard to hear criticism in general, esp when it comes to our parenting bc it is something that is so important to us that we try our hardest to do well, but it's also an area where we have so many insecurities already. (I know I do!)

I also feel like when I am around other moms and kids there is more pressure for my kids to behave well.

I don't helicopter over my boys, I try to only intervene if they ask for my help or if their arguing w/ea other gets out of hand. I trust them to mostly deal w/the conflicts themselves. They are pretty well behaved.

When they are playing w/other kids I watch more closely though bc of the pressure I feel to make sure that they behave well.


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

it sounds like your friend was being honest with you and really looking after your dd best interest. friend knows her limits and knows she would not be able to keep up with two toddlers who have the same chimestry those two have. it doesn't make anyone bad. I mean how would you feel if you left your dd there, the day went horrible and your friend got stressed and screamed at or spanked your dd? there are some kids i cannot watch. its not because they are bad or I am mean. its because I do not have the skills to keep everything going smoothly with mine and theirs and make sure everyone is safe and having a good time. also some people discipline their children in a way that is so foriegn to mine that I do not feel comfortable correcting them at all. especially if my friends are sensetive about how other people discipline their children.

perhaps your friends delivery could have been a little better but at least she was honest about what her limits were. also it sounds like perhaps there has been some resent building up and now you can perhaps step back and look where you could supervise your dd a little more closely.


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I'm mostly a "sit back and let them play" sort of mom as well. However, if your child frequently hurts other children, even by accident or in enthusiastic play, you probably need to be more involved, or at least physically closer and more observant so you can step in BEFORE she gets her hands around another child's neck or snatches toys from another. I think most kids go through stages where you need to be more involved in play with other children. Which is hard because we all want a break!


----------



## glorio (Mar 8, 2009)

I see where you are coming from, but I can also see your friends pov. I have a wild child, so I know how daunting it is to try and hold a conversation and constantly redirect at the same time. And yes, conversations with other Mommies, or adults rather, is *needed* especially when you have an intense child!







s

I also think when kids can handle it, they should be left to do just that.. handle their social situations. I guess it is pretty subjective on when they can do that though.

I can also see where your friend is coming from. If her ds is getting hurt and she feels as if she has to do a lot of the redirection is could be pretty frustrating.

I'll post my thoughts specifically in *bold*.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
My daughter totally dominats her boy and sometimes she gets too aggressive and grabs him by the neck and takes away a toy he is holding.....

*That would be a clue to me that dd needs more close supervision and "loose" supervision might not be enough at this stage. Doesn't mean dd will need it forever, but some help making good choices from a Mom nearby doesn't = helicopter parenting to me.*

She said that it would be too hurtful for my kid to be told off by some one else other than me.

*Scolded? How about reminding of boundaries and redirection? Would friend be comfortable with that? If not, maybe another babysitter would work out better anyway?*

I usually stand back and chat with her and sometimes I get so engaged in our conversation and don't watch for my daughter closely....

*Again, it might seem helicopter-ish to some, but at this age and at this stage of aggression, I trailed ds at the park while trying to keep up Mommy-conversations. Now at 5 I keep an eye on him while sitting and talking, he still is impulsive, but not as aggressive. I don't think he will any longer push, grab another child, etc. He really *needed* me by to help him make choices and help regulate his emotions. He needed talking, reminding, holding, etc, he's pretty high needs. Would you say your dd is?*

My friend directs him all the time. I find sometimes though the kid seems a bit suppressed. One day he got gently hit by a younger toddler and couldn't fight back, but just endured it for a while and cried when I hugged him.

*What kind of directing is she doing? Stopping him from climbing up the slide? Taking turns? I think I did this a lot at this age just to ensure that ds got the hang of rules, politeness, etc. Again, now at 5 I don't have to do that as much. And ds now picks up on social cues much better... if he isn't giving someone space, or taking too long on a turn on the swings while another child is waiting, he "gets" it more and will respond on his own more. I think at 3 many kids still don't get that.*

*And I think him crying and not fighting back might be his personality. It might seem like a result of helpicopter parenting because your dd (and my ds!) would react SO differently, lol. But I don't think laid back parenting is why my ds or your dd are intense. They just are, kwim?*

Her kid is very well behaved while mine is wild.
*Yeah, I wouldn't draw conclusions about parenting due to this though, as stated above. Sounds like you just have an intense little girl, which will have plenty of perks! She could be a leader, assertive, etc etc.*

After all, my friend is not perfect.
*And nobody is







I don't think she was trying to diss you as a parent, maybe just voicing her frustration. Maybe you guys could talk a little more about it and you can tell her why you parent the way you do. I'm sure that you can both take something away from the conversation!*


----------



## sahmmie (Jan 13, 2008)

I have a close friend who I hope to have as a lifelong friend. She has a "wild child." When our friendship first began I was hesitant to say anything to her about her son and instead I began avoiding her because her child was often aggressive and hurt my children. After some time I realized that I wanted her as a friend and I cared about her enough to talk to her honestly about her child. It was hard and I tried to tell her in a non critical way that I thought her child needed to be disciplined differently so that he would learn not hurt other children. I gave her examples of how I handle different situations wtih my children, and I tried to help her see that I didn't see myself as a perfect parent and I wasn't judging her. Fortunately she perceived my efforts as coming form someone who cared about her and her son and our friendship has actually grown. Her child's behaviour is improving and she has helped me to see some things that I could do better with my own children. That's what friendship is all about.

I guess what I am saying is that if this friend is someone you believe cares about you, and your friendship with her is valuable to you, try to be open minded about what she is saying and consider that she may be trying to help you.


----------



## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

I believe that if you have a child who is prone to being overly aggressive with other children, you do need to stay close to that child during social times so that you can redirect that behaviour. It's frustrating when you want a break, but as a parent who has had to spend a lot of time redirecting other people's kids while while their parents were too busy socializing and weren't redirecting or supervising their highly aggressive kids, I think it's really important.

I would take a deep breath and talk to your friend about her advice. I'd thank her for being honest and ask her what she would do in your circumstances. If you feel comfortable with the type of discipline or redirection she would use with your daughter, I'd let her know that she has your permission to redirect and ask her if in those circumstances, would she be willing to babysit. If she says no, I'd reconsider my willingness to provide care for her child...it doesn't seem fair that you watch her son but she is unwilling to watch your daughter.


----------



## Proudmomoftwinsplusone (Feb 21, 2004)

if your friend is truely concerned about her son around your daughter, why would she leave him alone with you and your daughter while she is at a class? i think she just doesnt feel like reciprocating. and so what if your daughter is difficult for her to watch? i watch my kids friends, even though sometimes my house turns into a zoo and i desperately watch the clock. favors should be returned, imo.


----------



## LabileLotus (May 18, 2009)

First of all my opinion is that if you're at a playgroup where the atmosphere is fairly kid-friendly then 3 isn't too young to let her play on her own with the kids. My son is two and a half and I meet up once per week with some local moms. The atmosphere is somewhat kid friendly (but not extremely) and I let him run around with all the other kids and just like you, I only interject if there's an issue.

Part of me wonders if maybe she criticized you mostly because she is stressed out because of her marital situation. Maybe critiquing your parenting makes her feel less bad about leaving her kid with her husband while she goes out of the country...?

*EDIT:*
Did want to mention that if your DD has a history of getting rough with other kids then in that situation you may want to keep her a little closer to you. Just so you can keep an eye on the situation and stop things before they even start.


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

We just returned from a family retreat with other young families.

DH and I have always felt it was important to supervise and guide our smallest ones, to avoid unecesary disruption to others and trouble with the other children. Everybody remarked how well behaved our children were. Well, the small ones would not have been able to "behave" if we were not helping and guiding them.

The parents of the other big family (they have 4) however did the exact opposite. They were never paying attention and did nothing when their kids would run around and scream during classes and worship. Their girl kept on punching and pushing the other little ones. So did their son. It was very sad to see because NOBODY in the retreat could stand having their children around for long because they were so loud and violent









I am all for gentle parenting and respecting the children's individuality, but there has got to be guidance and supervision when they are too small to know what to do on their own. It is hard work for the first few years, but soon enough the children will have learned to be polite and good at social interactions.


----------



## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

It sounds to me like you may need to watch your DD a bit more, if she is aggressive then she just may need more direction at times. There is nothing wrong with that. I have a DD who is a bit of a bully with other kids, especially ones she can dominate over. With kids of her same size and stature she isn't remotely like that.

I can understand where your friend is coming from, but I think it is rude that she has you watch her child and won't return the favor. Honestly this is why I never ask my "friends" to watch my DD. My one friend I have thinks my DD "needs a schedule" because she was having sleep issues, she had no idea what the heck was going on and why DD wasn't sleeping. Her son is mellow, my DD is a wild child. I can't stand a ton of stuff that she does, she complains that her son won't sleep later, but won't put a blanket over the window to keep it darker, so whatever. She is a helicopter mom, she _constantly_ feels guilty if she's not right there in his face 24/7-whatever. It's not my problem.

I guess maybe you need to find some balance in your paly group. If your DD is aggressive maybe she needs to be redirected away from that situation. I know it's nice to socialize, but most conversing with small children around is done in increments because somebody is always trying to climb too high, knock another kid over etc....there is balance between "helicopter mom" and just letting the kids do their thing. I know I have to have that balance, my DD is almost 3 and is usually the one being bosy and dominating over other kids.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Haven't read the replies . . .

Some 3yos definitely need greater supervision than others. If a 3yo is prone to be physically aggressive then they need closer supervision. My former neighbor's son, who is a great kid and now at 7yo is perfectly well behaved, had to be watched like a hawk at that age because he just couldn't control himself. She pretty much never left him out of arm's reach when younger kids were around, which was tough considering she also had a 1yo at the time.

When my kids were younger I would limit time spent with other kids who were more aggressive or physical if the parents weren't paying attention or stepping in. It was just a bummer for me. My kids were always upset, and I was always the one dealing with it. It's not that I thought they were bad parents, but their parenting style wasn't working for me, so I chose not to hang out with them.


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norasmomma* 

I can understand where your friend is coming from, *but I think it is rude that she has you watch her child and won't return the favor.*

I forgot to add that to my post.
I totally agree!


----------



## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just Elsa* 
If your child has a habit (not one time but repeatedly, which is what it sounds like you're saying) of hurting her child, it's her job to keep her kid safe from yours. If you haven't gotten to a point where you can make your kid stop, I understand her concern about being able to do so without you around.

This does not make you a bad mom, your kid a bad kid or her a bad friend. It just means this is a bad time to leave your child with her. Sounds like she's got a lot of her own worries right now and can't handle the phase your kid is in. I know it's hard not to take it personally, but try not to.

Very nicely said.

I would also add that if you saw me with my kid at the (safe, gated, baby park) and he was self-directing and I was paying a moderate amount of attention but not interacting unless he was hitting/pushing/taking from/with another kid you would draw some conclusions about my parenting. But with my kid, this is really the only time he wants to play this way. This is true when we are having a play date at home or somewhere else, or in a restaurant, or at our toddler program. When we are home, he wants me to play with him pretty much all the time.

Children vary a lot in what they need at various stages. He is a pretty easy kid. I know lots of kids who need a very different level of attention.


----------



## savannah smiles (May 4, 2004)

It's a tough situation on both sides. When dd1 was younger, I had to really watch her in play situations not because she was agressive, but because she was often totally oblivious of the kids around her which caused its own set of problems. It was hard because I *so* needed to have a break from her and usually trips to the park were more work than being at home. *sigh* Still, she needed the redirection and prompts so I had to be nearby, aware, and ready to step in when needed. Try being more alert, esp. when your with this friend to head off any aggression issues and that could help out a lot.


----------



## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just Elsa* 
If your child has a habit (not one time but repeatedly, which is what it sounds like you're saying) of hurting her child, it's her job to keep her kid safe from yours. If you haven't gotten to a point where you can make your kid stop, I understand her concern about being able to do so without you around.

...

Um, yes, that mom needs to keep her child safe, but I would say that it is much more the OP's responsibility to keep/stop her child from hurting someone else. If the OP's child regularly grabs another child's neck, it sounds to me like the OP needs to be a bit more engaged in what her child is doing at playdates for a while. We all like to kick back and relax, but parenting our children needs to take first priority, and it is our responsibility to make sure our children are not hurting others.


----------



## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

I've yet to read all the replies, but I wondered if you have watched the two interact closely to see if there is something that is making your daughter more aggressive with your friend's son?

I ask, and granted my son is significantly younger then yours, but DS is far more aggressive around other kids who are also more aggressive. Even if they aren't at that moment, something has happened in the past, and he's learned in order to play with that child, and get what he wants he needs to assert himself, and with this certain child, he gets aggressive. Not in a beat any one up way, but he'll push him away when this boy takes his toy. He NEVER does this with any other kids he plays with.

I'm very much like you in regard to how I watch DS while at playgroups. I'm a firm believer that he needs to learn to interact without me hovering around. Natural consequences right? I mean, there are instances where I will step in, but I don't direct or guide his play. He does that, and as long as he's safe and others around him are safe, I watch from a distance. Maybe I'm biased for this, but I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Someone mentioned that your friend needs to take her son out of the situation, and I agree. With my friend who has the aggressive child, we don't hang out as often, and I do step in a lot more. I try to explain what's happening to DS so he understands that it's okay to feel frustrated, and upset with the situation.

Anyway, it sucks to have your parenting criticized, especially when this isn't anything other then a conflict in parenting styles.


----------



## eggplant (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Um, yes, that mom needs to keep her child safe, but I would say that it is much more the OP's responsibility to keep/stop her child from hurting someone else. If the OP's child regularly grabs another child's neck, it sounds to me like the OP needs to be a bit more engaged in what her child is doing at playdates for a while. We all like to kick back and relax, but parenting our children needs to take first priority, and it is our responsibility to make sure our children are not hurting others.

Except that if you take what the other mom says at face value, then she's NOT in fact keeping her child safe. Really - she thinks the OP's daughter is too aggressive (rightly so, from the examples given!), and the OP doesn't provide enough supervision (again, apparently correctly, from the OP's own description). But she leaves her son with them anyway? With a child who's too aggressive and a parent who won't supervise closely? That makes no sense to me at all, and suggests to me that she just doesn't want the hassle of trying to supervise a more aggressive kid. Now, I wouldn't want that hassle either, I think, but then if I wasn't willing to watch the other kid, I'd never ask that friend to watch mine! And here, she's not only having the OP watch her kid once without reciprocating, but regularly?? That just seems really obnoxious to me, and the issue of the OP's parenting style seems really beside the point to me. (Just to be clear, I don't disagree with anything you've said about the OP's responsibility to stop her child from hurting other children. Just that that seems to have nothing to do with the specific situation here, about the other parent reciprocating with childcare.)


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Your daughter dominates and chokes at least one other kid by your own admission. I think this is a clear indication that she is not ready for you to just let her go off alone unsupervised to play. If you need a break then I suggest paying someone to be with her one on one so you can take that break. Until your daughter no longer tries to hurt other children, I think your friend is right, you should be supervising her very closely and it is your job to redirect her no matter how exhausted you are.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Do you think 3yrs old need close supervision?
If your child is hurting other children, then yes, she needs close supervision.


----------



## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Cant fault her for being a mama bear. But it does seem unfair that she gets a free babysitter and you dont.

I am a laid back, watch them play type of mom, but the second I see aggression, I want someone in there to supervise.


----------



## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

I might even agree with the mother and say..." It would be best if her son is watched by someone else as daughter is going through a stage and needs constant supervision around other children. Unfortunately, there is a house to run and it is too difficult to do on a constant basis."

All of this is true and would be par for the course. I don't think it is fair that she refuses to reciprocate and it isn't fair for her son and it isn't fair to you to have to stop your life to monitor your child like a hawk for hours on end.

The last sentence comes from experience of two close in age sons who love and yet beat each other the second I turn me head to cough. It's taxing and while my situation is more long-term, you have the ability to lessen your stress and be more aware when she is with other children. Case in point, my sons are angels when one and one because there is nobody to fight with.


----------



## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eggplant* 
Except that if you take what the other mom says at face value, then she's NOT in fact keeping her child safe. Really - she thinks the OP's daughter is too aggressive (rightly so, from the examples given!), and the OP doesn't provide enough supervision (again, apparently correctly, from the OP's own description). But she leaves her son with them anyway? With a child who's too aggressive and a parent who won't supervise closely? That makes no sense to me at all, and suggests to me that she just doesn't want the hassle of trying to supervise a more aggressive kid. Now, I wouldn't want that hassle either, I think, but then if I wasn't willing to watch the other kid, I'd never ask that friend to watch mine! And here, she's not only having the OP watch her kid once without reciprocating, but regularly?? That just seems really obnoxious to me, and the issue of the OP's parenting style seems really beside the point to me. (Just to be clear, I don't disagree with anything you've said about the OP's responsibility to stop her child from hurting other children. Just that that seems to have nothing to do with the specific situation here, about the other parent reciprocating with childcare.)

All true! Somehow I missed that the OP regularly took care of the other woman's child. Very odd.


----------



## momtokea (Oct 27, 2005)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm wondering why she leaves her son with you if she feels your daughter is too aggressive and you don't supervise enough?


----------



## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I guess by MDC standards I'm a helicopter parent. But not because my son is aggressive, because other children sometimes are and their parents are either "taking a break" or letting them "learn natural consequences." What exactly is my child supposed to learn when he gets bonked on the head by an unsupervised child? Not to go to the park?

And OP, you were surprised that the little boy didn't react when a younger kid hit him? What, he was supposed to knock him down? Is that behavior you encourage? That's inappropriate IMHO. When a younger kid bothers mine, he looks to me or the other mom for help b/c I've taught him that 1)we don't hit 2)we are gentle to younger kids and 3)it isn't his job to discipline another child. I have TAUGHT him that, through supervision and reinforcement. You know, helicopter parenting.







"Working it out" with preschoolers is crazy and will almost definitely lead to a Lord of the Flies type ending. They don't have the verbal or social skills yet, they need an adult to help and model.

While I think the other mom is taking advantage of you if you're watching her child and she's not paying you or reciprocating, I also think parents need to supervise their children if they know they act in ways that are aggressive and unkind. That's part of being a parent.


----------



## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

"When a younger kid bothers mine, he looks to me or the other mom for help b/c I've taught him that 1)we don't hit 2)we are gentle to younger kids and 3)it isn't his job to discipline another child. I have TAUGHT him that, through supervision and reinforcement."

Honestly, that statement seems rude. To me it implies that your child is not aggresive because you were the better parent. Probably it was personality not parenting.

Of course she should watch her child, but all children, as you said, left to their own devices will get all "Lord of the Flies". Sad but true. It takes years and sometimes they have stages.

Honestly, what I want to point out that much of your post doesn't seem helpful to the OP.

As a previous poster said, when parents haven't had an aggressive child yet and their child gets the brunt of it they can take it too far and have feelings about the parent or child that just arem't warrented. Much of it probably doesn't have a lick to do with parenting style. That is why I see so many people popping out to chastise this woman and her daughter. No advice is given but rather an AMEN! to keeping that little girl away from our precious babes. I am sure the OP has been given tools by that, or rather not, just more critique on her spirited child. She needs advice.

I say it is a stage and she should be left to be by herself with only bits of socialization (because I honestly don't believe in it before age 3 anyway) where the mom feels up to helicoptering. Maybe just forgetting outings until the child naturally understands empathy could help too. All children take awhile to develop it, just some are more timid than others.

I have a timid boy and an aggressive boy. I raise them the same, I do the same thing. Honestly, my second boy got less helicoptering (and attention as subsequent children go) and I can tell you with a straight face that kids need to grow up and be modeled not helicoptered. If your kid can't play nice at the park, leave. No biggie.

But let's help the momma out and not bring on our own feelings about parents who suck! cause their kid bopped Johnny! into the discussion.


----------



## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
I guess by MDC standards I'm a helicopter parent. But not because my son is aggressive, because other children sometimes are and their parents are either "taking a break" or letting them "learn natural consequences." What exactly is my child supposed to learn when he gets bonked on the head by an unsupervised child? Not to go to the park?

And OP, you were surprised that the little boy didn't react when a younger kid hit him? What, he was supposed to knock him down? Is that behavior you encourage? That's inappropriate IMHO. When a younger kid bothers mine, he looks to me or the other mom for help b/c I've taught him that 1)we don't hit 2)we are gentle to younger kids and 3)it isn't his job to discipline another child. I have TAUGHT him that, through supervision and reinforcement. You know, helicopter parenting.







"Working it out" with preschoolers is crazy and will almost definitely lead to a Lord of the Flies type ending. They don't have the verbal or social skills yet, they need an adult to help and model.

While I think the other mom is taking advantage of you if you're watching her child and she's not paying you or reciprocating, I also think parents need to supervise their children if they know they act in ways that are aggressive and unkind. That's part of being a parent.









:


----------



## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

No, I don't think her parenting sucks, I think she needs to supervise, which I wrote and which seems to be your advice as well. But thanks for your input.


----------



## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
No, I don't think her parenting sucks, I think she needs to supervise, which I wrote and which seems to be your advice as well. But thanks for your input.









No, you said "I have TAUGHT him that, through supervision and reinforcement. You know, helicopter parenting.







"

I thought that was pretty rude, with the caps and the eyeroll. I didn't see a need for it. Sure she needs to supervise, but that sentence... I don't know. It whiffed arrogance for a chance roll of the dice and could have been omitted. Maybe I read it wrong and that sentence was trying to be gently helpful.


----------



## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teale* 
I've yet to read all the replies, but I wondered if you have watched the two interact closely to see if there is something that is making your daughter more aggressive with your friend's son?

I ask, and granted my son is significantly younger then yours, but DS is far more aggressive around other kids who are also more aggressive.

here is a pertinent quote from the OP's initial post that shows this (other child being aggressive) is not the case:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
I find sometimes though the kid seems a bit suppressed. One day he got gently hit by a younger toddler and couldn't fight back, but just endured it for a while and cried when I hugged him. And he was too afraid to go near him so I had to hold him for a while. I'm not saying it is good to fight back but I expected some kind of response from him.


----------



## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

i found the reference to friend leaving for korea equating bad parenting, a bit perplexing.


----------



## funkymamajoy (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
While I think the other mom is taking advantage of you if you're watching her child and she's not paying you or reciprocating, I also think parents need to supervise their children if they know they act in ways that are aggressive and unkind. That's part of being a parent.









:


----------



## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

Haven't read all the replies but wanted to chime in. Take into consideration, I am rather strict with play and aggression and stopping it (whether my kid or not). We've had issues in the past with someone where I can no longer be tolerant of that sort of behavior.

DD1 is a very mellow kid. Her "active/wild" play is what most would consider their child's mellow play. That said, at 3, I did pay attention to what she was doing. Even though she is mellow she was 3 and not always capable of making rational decisions. Part of the territory. I'm by no means a helicopter parent but if I needed to stop something BEFORE it happened I did. If I needed to step in and stop something DURING I did and explained what was going on. I was still able to maintain conversations while doing so. I don't think there are only two options here (helicopter vs. laid back). You can very easily (IMO) be laid back but still observant and redirect when needed.

I have a friend who has 2 kids that are insanely high strung and aggressive. I have a very hard time with their personalities. They are just so very different from my kids. From the sounds of it that could be the case with you and your friend. Maybe she just has a hard time dealing with your DD, in general, on a personal level. I know, for me, it's very easy to stop interacting with a difficult child (and that is extremely subjective) as if they were a child and more like they are a person you don't enjoy. My friend's kids have rubbed on DD1 and there are times her aggresson is through the roof. I can see both sides here (yours and hers). I can relate to both. As the mother of a mellow child it breaks my hear to see my kiddo in an aggressive situation...not because she can't stand up for herself (because she certainly can














but because I feel I have let her down in some way by allowing her to get into that situation (ahh...don't you love mother guilt?







). As the mother of a child who can do some damage it embarasses me to no end that she can behave that way and that I have let her (and those around us) down in some way. Not everyone is comfy reprimanding other children. It's taken me years to get used to doing it in a way that I was ok with. When my friend comes over I reiterate the rules over and over. Yeah, my kids know the rules but hers don't and they aren't used to them. I have no problem using a stern voice if need be (she sort of a passive parent). It's easy to say, "Sure! Go ahead and do it if need be!" to someone you are friends with...it's an entirely other thing to be able to take that and not get offended IMO. Just because she sees how you do things doesn't mean she knows how you do them. I'm still not 100% sure on my friend handles situations and that does stop me at times. I'd rather remove my child from the mix and explain to them what's going on than cause issues with my friend. I have yet to meet a toddler who can hold a grudge and make life as miserable as an offended adult.







: I think there is a fine line between "natural consequences" and just not wanting to deal with your kids behavior. It can be tiring and not feel worth it at times but in the end dealing with it is far better.

I'm a firm believer in that despite certain personality traits (aggression being one...some kids are just that way) kids still need direction when it comes to socializing. Yes, let her play and figure things out but that shouldn't stop you from letting her know social boundaries and instilling some sense of that. My kids are free to play as hard as they want but I draw the line at aggression. I do expect some to surface seeing as kids just tend toward that but there is a difference between that and not knowing boundaries I think. At 3 it's a hard call.

Like I said, you don't have to be a helicopter parent and can still have adult time but you can still watch your child well enough that certain things don't happen. I may be a bit of a hard nose though seeing as I take no flack in regards to aggression and play. I don't see the two as being inclusive.









I also think your friend isn't being fair in regards to child care but I can see her POV on it. Like another PP said, I'd rather have her turn down my request than begrudgingly accept and fly off the handle on my child.

And finally (whew! what a novel!) and I say this gently.....I understand needing a break. DD2 is a bit intense (to say the least) in comparison to DD1. I don't think it's fair though (and maybe I'm severely misreading here) to go a playgroup/playdate for that break and expect 1. other parents to intervene and then call them helicopter parents (and yes, by default IMO, you are expecting that since you don't want to intervene with your DD) and 2. expect the other kids to toughen up (which is the vibe I got in regards to how you describe her little boy).


----------



## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Hey,
Thanks so much for your considerate responses. So the conclusion is that I need to pay more attention and spend more time disciplining her. I accept that.

I was very tired when I wrote my post so I need to have a few things to be straightened out before asking further advice here.

My daughter is not agressive with other kids at all. She is actually extremely shy. She is a bit of bully only with my friend's boy because she is too close to him, like a brother. But most of time they are really good friends and have lots of fun together. So when I am babysitting, I pay close attention to them to make sure she doesn't bully him. But when my friend is around, I pay less attention. Because of our difference in parenting style, I come across as too lax to her. She finds herself stepping in more often than I do. But I do step in of course when she gets agressive with him. In fact, when I babysit them at home togehter, it's very hard as my kid does not want to share her toys. So I have to keep intervening with them, and it's a lot of work. So I usually babysit them at a playgroup where my kid is pretty good at sharing toys.

Some moms criticized that I am not doing my work but I have been trying. Now I know I should try harder. Let me know if you have tips for me. Just talking to her firmly about why it is not a good idea to bully him does not seem to work. So I gave her time out yesterday when she bullied him. So far no bullying today. They had a great time today.

I think my post might have more to do with friendship. I was committed to looking after the boy until June when she is upgrading her English, once a week. So I don't think I should just quit even though I want to. If I quit, I guess it's the end of our frienship. I think I'm somewhat afraid of losing a good friend. But then my husband says that she is not my friend as she took all the help she needs and does not return back my favour.

Anyway, I understand there are differences in parenting styles and that she rather not baby sit my girl due to some reasons. That's all fine and I accept that. But I'm still pissed that she still expect me to look after him because I said I would. If I refuse, it's not the end of the world. Her course is flexible(self directed study) and she can easily change it to an evening class when her husband can look after him. I offered help as my daughter likes to play with her boy and I was expecting a favor back. For me it's not a lot of work to look after a mellow boy, but it's just a matter of fairness. But it would be petty to quit. 4 more time of babysitting, then I am done. So it's no biggie. Hopefully she appreciates it if she is a real friend.
Thanks so much moms for all the posts.


----------



## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrace* 
i found the reference to friend leaving for korea equating bad parenting, a bit perplexing.

Maybe I'm trying to find faults with her but you don't think 3yr old can handle absense of his mom for a month?


----------



## sora (Oct 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 

And OP, you were surprised that the little boy didn't react when a younger kid hit him? What, he was supposed to knock him down? Is that behavior you encourage? That's inappropriate IMHO. When a younger kid bothers mine, he looks to me or the other mom for help b/c I've taught him that 1)we don't hit 2)we are gentle to younger kids and 3)it isn't his job to discipline another child. .

I didn't say he should fight back. I thought it was odd not to show any reponse, for example, to cry and come to me for help. He was just sitting there and took the hitting.The mom of the agressor was right there with him paying close attention to him, but it happend so fast.


----------



## Luvable_Mommy (Apr 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
My daughter totally dominats her boy and sometimes she gets too aggressive and grabs him by the neck and takes away a toy he is holding. Of course, I don't let her get away with this and try to discipline her but I guess she did this again when I was not around.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
My friend directs him all the time. I find sometimes though the kid seems a bit suppressed. One day he got gently hit by a younger toddler and couldn't fight back, but just endured it for a while and cried when I hugged him. And he was too afraid to go near him so I had to hold him for a while. I'm not saying it is good to fight back but I expected some kind of response from him.

I might be completely 100% wrong in saying this but... from these 2 quotes it sounds as if you to have very opposite parenting styles. This isn't a bad thing but in my opinion (please take it only as my opinion, I don't want to offend anyone







), you could both use some adjusting.

In the first quote you talk about how aggressive your daughter can be, I think that maybe she needs some more supervision and possibly some stricter time outs when she does this.

On the other hand...

From the second quote, your friend sounds as if she is way too over protective. The fact that her son just lets these things happen to him with no reaction sounds almost as if he was waiting for someone to step in and handle the problem for him. So for him I think he would greatly benefit if your friend stepped back and let him learn how to handle these situations on his own (to a certain extent).

My son used to be really aggressive too. What worked for us was an immediate time out (1 minute for every year, in your case 3 mins). He would cry and cry because all he could do was watch the others play without him. After his time out was finished one of us would sit with him and gently explain or have him explain what he did wrong.

We used a 3 strikes rule with the time outs if we where out in public. After 2 time outs he had one last chance. If he couldn't be respectful of others then we had to leave.

It really didn't take long for him to stop being aggressive. There were really only 2 options, behave in a respectful manor or go home.

He 4 now (5 in September) and doesn't need a ton of supervision when it comes to play time, we let him handle his own minor conflicts and only step in when necessary.

I really hope that you and your friend can work things out.

-Steph


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

I hear the words "fight back" being said again and again in this thread.
May I ask what you guys mean by that?
Are you honestly suggesting that it is good for a child that is being punched by a younger toddler to punch back?

Fighting back is lightyears different from saying "No, don' do that" to the toder and walking away.
Even when it comes to same age children, the "fighting back" attitude is very damaging and not the wisest or most mature way for a child to handle the situation. Eye for an eyes is the most predominant attitude of school kids in local schools at the moment (taught by the parents) according to a teacher friend of mine, and it makes for an awful atmosphere in school.


----------



## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quindin* 
I hear the words "fight back" being said again and again in this thread.
May I ask what you guys mean by that?
Are you honestly suggesting that it is good for a child that is being punched by a younger toddler to punch back?

Fighting back is lightyears different from saying "No, don' do that" to the toder and walking away.
Even when it comes to same age children, the "fighting back" attitude is very damaging and not the wisest or most mature way for a child to handle the situation. Eye for an eyes is the most predominant attitude of school kids in local schools at the moment (taught by the parents) according to a teacher friend of mine, and it makes for an awful atmosphere in school.

Hmmm... Honestly, I plan to encourage my DD to do both. I will be teaching her things like "hands are not for hitting," but when she gets older (about 4-6-depending on where she is developmentally) I will most definitely be putting her into a good martial arts class.

There are times when fighting back is really the only way a kid is going to get bullies to back off. Even during adulthood, there are times we need to know how to fight...it may not involve punching people, but the "ignore them and walk away" expression does not work in all situations. Even just knowing you have the choice of resorting to violence (even if you don't use it 99% of the time) to protect yourself can help make you feel safer and build confidence. And that reduces the chances of being bullied in the first place.

All that aside, we are talking about toddlers here...still practically babies. That seems to be way too young an age to be teaching this concept to and then expecting them to work it on their own. An earlier posters "Lord of the Flies" analogy worked just perfectly. Even if your kid gets it, I guarantee he/she will run into plenty of others who don't, and may need an adult to step in to help.

If the kid is on the extreme ends of being a bullied or ending up bullied, it seems like common sense to monitor him/her even more closely-and it's really not fair to expect other parents to be watching your kid.

Luckily, that is an age that doesn't last forever. Kids continue to grow more and more independent and that's when it's good we give them a little space to work things out on their own. But you just can't totally expect it from a toddler/preschooler.


----------



## Quindin (Aug 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherry Alive* 
There are times when fighting back is really the only way a kid is going to get bullies to back off. Even during adulthood, there are times we need to know how to fight...it may not involve punching people, but the "ignore them and walk away" expression does not work in all situations.

In the world of a child, such as in school and playgrounds, things should never be allowed to deteriorate to that stage.
If a bully punches a classmate, puching back not only solves nothing, but makes things worse. An adult should be told of what is happening instead.

In fact, I can think of very few situations in an adult's life were hitting back is the appropriate solution. If you are being the victim of violence, you'd better know very well what you are doing before trying to fight back, or else you could get killed (and that's where self deffense lessons come in)

Self deffense and martial arts are very good things for children to learn, but they are for deffense against crime and severe violence.


----------



## camracrazy (May 27, 2006)

Sometimes it's not the age of the kids involved but the dynamics between them and the situation as to whether they need to be supervised.

My oldest DD is 8. She's a pretty good kid and I don't generally worry about her playing with other kids. But she has a cousin close to her age (also a girl) that lies to her, tries to get her to do things that neither should be doing (i.e. telling my DD, at 6 yo, to tell a grown man that he is sexy), parades her stuff in front of my DD but doesn't want to share it, hurting my DD's feelings on purpose, etc. I rarely let my DD play with her anymore, but there are family situations where they are together. I do stay in the same room with them, but not right on top of them, when they are together. I feel like I have to, because other family members will hear the cousin lie and say stuff like "What an imagination she has!" or "I don't know where she comes up with this stuff!" Of course, if she is ever caught in something major, she tries to blame it on someone else, and if my 8 yo is with her she is usually the scapegoat. Even if you see her do something, she will still try to blame it on someone else.







My DD has gotten better about recognising when she should tell the cousin that she doesn't want to play with her because of her behavior, but she (DD) is the kind of kid that feels bad if someone has to play by themselves or something so sometimes she puts up with a lot of crap from other kids because she feels sorry for them. Similar things happen with some other cousins of hers.

How would you feel if you were in your friend's place and another kid was grabbing your DD around the neck and being rough with her?


----------



## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Do you think 3yrs old need close supervision?
IMHO yes absoultly that doesn't have to mean hovering and not allowing any problem solving but honestly at three I'd expect my child to be able to "solve" problems in small age appropite groups with out hitting biting or being overly agggressive.. (assuming not totally over tired fed ect) I also expect mistakes and agression to happen and for me to anticipate this and for me to be there to imediently stop and redirrect or even leave if needed.
I probaly wouldn't have gone into so much detail about why I didn't want to watch another child who was too aggressive with mine but I likely would have declined as well. I'm my childs protector and I couldn't have an another child in my home that I knew would get overly aggressive like that.. Saying that rough and tumble alone wouldn't bother me and I'm not afrain to say no and physically seperate kids if needed (under my roof/care) no punishments of course but enforcing my boundries yes.. If I felt the parent didn't do it normally though it would make the whole dynamic awkward.

Deanna


----------



## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

One day he got gently hit by a younger toddler and couldn't fight back, but just endured it for a while and cried when I hugged him. And he was too afraid to go near him so I had to hold him for a while. I'm not saying it is good to fight back but I expected some kind of response from him.
What we teach the order can change depending on situation.
We teach words.. say stop hitting me that hurts! with a strong voice

moving away you are hitting I don't allow people to hit me I'm going to go someplace else..

get a grown up to help get up find me or a teacher ect and say Sam is hitting me I asked hom to stop but he is not.. that this is not tattleing it allowing an adult to protect you (and of course the adult has a duty here to step in)

allowing self deffense while in most cases especially with little ones I expect a grown up to help long before a fight "needs" to happen but in some cases a bully may not back off without one. I don NOT condone violence but if after the nos moving away telling grownup ect doesn't solve the issue that I will back up my childs decession to physically depend herself. So far this hasn't happened though.

Deanna


----------



## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtokea* 
I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm wondering why she leaves her son with you if she feels your daughter is too aggressive and you don't supervise enough?










Wondering this as well...

Deanna


----------



## almama (Mar 22, 2003)

It sounds as if you need a break and some support with your DD's challenges, but are looking for it in the wrong place.

Aggressive kids (and believe me, I got some who can get that way) usually have a reason for what they are doing - even if the reason is just a bad habit. Please talk to your DD about what the boundaries are (no grabbing toys and necks might be a good starting point) and what will happen (leave the park?). Also work with her to figure out what is going on and how to break the cycle.

I don't think your friend was being rude, but just trying to be clear. I'd be happy that she still wants to try getting the kids together at all - lots of other people would just avoid an aggressive kid. She has figured out that her style of discipline doesn't work with your DD, but she recognizes that your DD responds to you. It is a compliment in a way.


----------



## momtokea (Oct 27, 2005)

Hmmm. Still baffled. Is this issue about the aggressive toddler, or the fact that the mother won't babysit?

She has no problem leaving her child with an aggressive child and a mother who supposedly doesn't supervise, but SHE won't babysit the same child she leaves her child with.

Still baffled.


----------



## eggplant (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almama* 

I don't think your friend was being rude, but just trying to be clear. I'd be happy that she still wants to try getting the kids together at all - lots of other people would just avoid an aggressive kid. She has figured out that her style of discipline doesn't work with your DD, but she recognizes that your DD responds to you. It is a compliment in a way.

Or she just doesn't want to lose the free babysitting...


----------



## almama (Mar 22, 2003)

Well, having kids of each flavor, I know how different it is to care for calmer kids than energetic ones. People who don't have energetic, spirited, - call it whatever works best - really generally don't have a good handle on what to do when the kid pushes certain boundaries. I think it is great this woman recognizes it and is up front about her limitations. It would be wonderful if she was willing to learn, but maybe asking a lot of her.

She's not a child care professional with experience dealing with all kinds of kids, but a mom whose own child is really easy and doesn't need a lot of anything.

I didn't read anything about the OP feeling as if she was giving free babysitting, but was wondering how to handle the whole situation. If she did feel that way, she should either ask for cash or a trade for something other than child care.


----------



## honorelspeth (Aug 14, 2008)

Coming from a parent with a little one that is often on the receiving end of aggressive attacks, it is absolutely infuriating to see parents that don't acknowledge their children's negative behavior. I have a few friends that also parent from the sidelines at playdates, while their children wreak havoc. They don't seem to mind or care that their children are harming others because "kids will be kids."









This may sound harsh, but please understand that we are discussing a child. It is totally unacceptable to allow a child of any age to harm another and not address it.







: It may not seem like an issue if your child is "gently hitting" (?!?) but consider the affects it has on the the other child. After my little one has been hurt by a friend, she is sad and confused. She is not suppressed or trained, she is genuinely kind and loving. There is a difference.

I really don't believe that a child's spirit will be broken by teaching them to respect other's.


----------



## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

You know, there really is a middle ground between the polarizing extremes of "Helicopter parenting" and "Law of the Jungle."

Toddlers need guidance as to what is acceptable in human society. Leaving them with no guidance at all, or to get that guidance from other toddlers, is completely nonsensical.

I'm as anti-helicopter-parent as they come -- but I think that it has been overinterpreted and come to be definited as "getting involved with your children at all" in some circles.

Keeping an eye on your child and guiding them through new situations is far from helicopter parenting. And if your child is so active and agressive that dealing with them at home is exhausting, perhaps playgroup shouldn't be a chance to get a break from supervision duties, because its not like they stop needing supervision when they get into a larger group with new toys and new interactions to negotiate...


----------



## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
I have such a hard time at home dealing with my daughter and I want to have a break from her at a play group.

Late to this thread. I just wanted to suggest that this attitude be one you take a closer look at. From my parenting perspective, bringing a child from the safe environment of home where there is a set of rules and consistency that help a child behave out into a public /social setting with many variables that can be hard for a 3 year old to negotiate is not break time.

I'm really sorry your friend can't return the favor of watching your kid for you once in a while to give you a break. And maybe talk to her about how you need one, and that will make it easier for you to be more attentive in other more social settings. But for the most part play groups are not break time, simply because of the different dynamic. In fact for some kid personalities that different dynamic creates more work for parents.


----------



## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quindin* 
In the world of a child, such as in school and playgrounds, things should never be allowed to deteriorate to that stage.
If a bully punches a classmate, puching back not only solves nothing, but makes things worse. An adult should be told of what is happening instead.

It depends on the school. Teachers can't always supervise every child at once. There ARE situations a kid can get bullied when they are alone. But this is why it's all the more important to closely supervise young children when they are in groups.

As for adults not needing to fight, that seems like a great idea on paper, but there are times when it is really important to know how to physically defend yourself...even including resorting to physical violence-especially if you are a woman. Even knowing you have that capability helps keep yourself from being a victim to a predator.

Anyhow, in an ideal world, human beings should be civil and non-violent, but the truth is we aren't. And this is arguably "natural." If you look at the behavior of Greater Chimps, they are quite violent. Bonobo Chimps are very peaceful, but their social structure is very dependent on open sexuality (which doesn't model most human societies at all).


----------



## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
Um, yes, that mom needs to keep her child safe, but I would say that it is much more the OP's responsibility to keep/stop her child from hurting someone else. If the OP's child regularly grabs another child's neck, it sounds to me like the OP needs to be a bit more engaged in what her child is doing at playdates for a while. We all like to kick back and relax, but parenting our children needs to take first priority, and it is our responsibility to make sure our children are not hurting others.

I agree. I also want to add that although it wasn't fun to hear, I think it was a good thing she shared it with you. It sounds like she cares about you and your DD especially since she is concerned about how her rules of discipline might affect your daughter.


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I really think it depends on the kid. My ds, still at age 6, expects me to watch him closely and gets very upset if he can't see me or if I'm more than 15 feet away. Other kids his age run off if their parents aren't watching carefully, so they also require more attention.
Your dd sounds like she needs more close watching, since you don't know when she might turn aggressive. You might also work with her more to find more appropriate outlets for her aggression (talking it out). There is a series of books designed to be read to children that deal with feelings by Elizabeth Crary -- they can help you discuss these situations in a calm way when it's not actually happening. One is called "I Want It" and it deals with sharing. There are others about taking turns, etc. They have different choices for the child to make in a situation, and each choice leads to a new page with a new situation.


----------



## Just Elsa (May 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sora* 
Maybe I'm trying to find faults with her but you don't think 3yr old can handle absense of his mom for a month?

People separate. If he has to be without one of them for a month, why should it be his dad instead of his mom?


----------



## straighthaircurly (Dec 17, 2005)

I had to watch my DS more closely at that age than many parents because he was an aggressive kid (and sensory seeking). I tried not to "hover" or direct his play but I could see problems developing and could redirect him if he started getting too rough with quieter, gentler kids. I let him be more aggressive with other aggressive kids because they spoke the same body language. I used the times I had to interfere as learning opportunities for him when possible. I pointed out different body language, facial expressions, and ways that the gentler kids were using their words to say NO.

Some kids have very quiet and gentle personalities and it is rarely directly related to parenting style, just as my son's aggression had nothing to do with my parenting style at that young age (though I am sure plenty of people judged me, including my stepmom). Ironically for us, my son's best friend in K is a kid who is even sensitive to other people fighting or not following rules or getting yelled at. My son says this friend helps him feel calm.

In terms of your friend, respect the fact that she felt she could tell you her oncerns. That doesn't mean she is right or wrong, they are just her feelings. Only you know what is or isn't right for you and your child.


----------



## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

OP: i read your second post, and i'm glad you appreciate that you need to monitor your child more closely instead of taking breaks during play dates.

you also clarified that the problem you are having has more to do with the friendship and feeling taken advantage of, so i'll address that issue. i can see your point.

your friend asked you to take on a significant burden in watching her son. even if it's not that big of a deal, it is a significant something, and adds to your level of stress/burnout/why you feel you need a break during playdates, etc.

because of the situation where the kids are together a lot, your daughter acts more aggressive toward her son. and now because of that, she won't reciprocate with any baby sitting for you.

that would annoy me as well.

you note that you are afraid of losing the friendship, but your husband is right that the friend is already taking advantage of you, and it sort of spells the end of the friendship already that you are feeling obliged to finish up with four more babysitting sessions, then she leaves the country for a month after having criticized you even while using you for free babysitting.

i don't mean to be a "downer," but i don't see this friendship evolving into a positive long term relationship. i sorta see it coming to an uncomfortable, slow death kind of ending, once the free babysitting is done.

no real advice on that one, if you want to finish off four more weeks of babysitting, more power to you. otherwise, cut her loose and let her find someone else to watch her kid.


----------

