# Would you have done this?



## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Please, no flaming, okay? I'm just wondering if there are any Mama's out there with really responsible 8 year old boys who would leave them with a eight month old baby for less than 20 minutes to run their spouse to work. Because that's what I did this morning.

DD was asleep, DS who is eight, was playing video games in the next room. DH would have been late to work if we hadn't left right then (he came in and said it's time to go, and I wasn't even awake







)!

I gave DS some quick instructions, took my cell phone, (he had the home phone) and took DH to work.

DS is very smart and responsible for his age. We live on a farm, so he knows how to handle himself really well. And DD is always an easy baby in the morning, so I wasn't worried.

But, still. What do you ladies think? And be gentle if you disagree, please


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## OboePlayerMom (May 23, 2005)

You know your children better than anyone. If you're okay with it, then that's all that matters. I think my DS will be similarly responsible at that age.


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
Please, no flaming, okay? I'm just wondering if there are any Mama's out there with really responsible 8 year old boys who would leave them with a eight month old baby for less than 20 minutes to run their spouse to work. Because that's what I did this morning.

DD was asleep, DS who is eight, was playing video games in the next room. DH would have been late to work if we hadn't left right then (he came in and said it's time to go, and I wasn't even awake







)!

I gave DS some quick instructions, took my cell phone, (he had the home phone) and took DH to work.

DS is very smart and responsible for his age. We live on a farm, so he knows how to handle himself really well. And DD is always an easy baby in the morning, so I wasn't worried.

But, still. What do you ladies think? And be gentle if you disagree, please









We've thought about leaving our almost 7 year old in the house, with Nana, literally 2 houses away, SIL 1 house away, and Grammy 1 block away, for a few minutes while I run Hubby home from work. My concern is always, what happens if I'm in a bad accident, or something? It terrifies me...


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## pjs (Mar 30, 2005)

I wouldn't have. My thought is always would they be able to handle the situation if say the house caught on fire or a stranger came to the door. I know statistically the chances of your house burning down while you're gone are small, but personally *I* would never be able to forgive myself if something did happen.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Absolutely not, especially to babysit an infant.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I wouldn't have. My thought is always would they be able to handle the situation if say the house caught on fire or a stranger came to the door. I know statistically the chances of your house burning down while you're gone are small, but personally *I* would never be able to forgive myself if something did happen.

See, that's the thing for me. Do I trust my son, when I know he can handle it, or do I let my what-if's run my life?


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I wouldn't have. I can't even imagine leaving my 8 yo DD home alone (and she is super responsible, and mature for her age) let alone with an infant or younger sibling to care for. Just too many unknowns and it would be out of my comfort level (plus I think here, legally, they have to be 12 to stay home?)

Since it already happened there's nothing you can do about it now, but in the future I would think twice -- you could have got into an accident, burglery, fire, baby choking, and so on (at least, that's where my mind would go).


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## sunshynbaby (Dec 10, 2008)

I think it really depends on your kid and your back up plan. As long as you think that your eight year old is mature enough to handle an emergency by calling you, your back up person (someone close by), or 911 in a real emergency, then I think it's okay.

When I was a kid, my mom left me home alone and I had an accident in the backyard with my dad's hatchet (I think I was 10). I called 911 and our family friend to come help me (this was before cell phones). It's funny now that I think of it. I was actually more scared that my mom was going to punish me for playing with my dad's tools than about my finger gushing blood.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

No way, no how. And I dont think it depends upon the individual child at all.


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## Lillitu (Jan 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
No way, no how. And I dont think it depends upon the individual child at all.

i disagree. i think children and how they are raised are all different. i am a situationalist about most things anyway. you know your kids better than anyone.

i would always prepare my kids for that possibility first (how to use phone, what 911 is, how to care for baby, etc.) before considering it, of course.

and getting everyone on the same team is important (how about hubby waking you earlier for a ride, or him getting your son dressed and into car) then it's a lot easier for you in PJs to put the infant into a carseat...

no flaming here, mama. we all do what we have to do to make our busy hectic lives work!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Only you know your comfort level with this and your son's.

I could see some situations where that would be fine.

What if you were home alone with the kids and slipped on a toy at the top of the stairs and broke your neck? I think it's irresponsible NOT to teach children how to call 911 and get help as soon as they're able to (we start at 6). I think kids that age and older can and should learn some basic baby care if there's a baby in the house too. Parents becoming seriously ill from, say, the flu are a possibility. And if a parent is injured and immobile at home or seriously ill, that leaves the children almost as unattended as being away.

I would not be comfortable leaving my almost-8 home alone, period. But that is her! She does know how to dial 911, how to call grandma, and how to do basic things for herself (make a sandwich, open a can, make tuna-fish/chicken salad, get her cereal, ect.) and I keep the pantry stocked for 4 weeks of pantry meals at all times.

So in the OP's scenario, I wouldn't do it because of my individual child's inexperience with babies, not because of the 'what ifs'. I have injured myself falling on our driveway, and have experienced both parents being extremely ill with a virus while the kids were fine though--which prompted me to at least get ALL of my kids as competant as possible in learning basic self-care.

I'm always shocked at the number of 8 years olds I meet who don't know how to do that stuff, because mom or dad is always home so the parents don't feel they need to show their kids how to do things because it might scare them.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I think it's great to have an 8 year old who _does_ have the skills for that situation and go you for being sure he does.

That said, no, I wouldn't have made that choice. Partly because of the what-ifs, especially with a car (which could have an accident, break down, etc.) But also because I remember being left in similar situations at similar ages and I did feel stressed and worried the whole time.

Just because a child would be able to cope with the situation doesn't mean that they are emotionally ready for the responsibility - and I think it often is the "responsible" kids who _feel_ the responsibility on their shoulders.

So definitely no flames, but no, I wouldn't make that choice.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I wouldn't leave my child at home alone but I usally tend to run the "what ifs" a little too much.

No flames here either.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Not flaming but I would NEVER EVER do it. Its illegal in Maryland and if you get caught you would have social services so far up you but they would never climb out. Seriously.. They can take both children.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

^^
speaking of, b/c I'm sometimes a bit paranoid -- I would tell him not to mention this at school or to friends... just so that you don't have someone calling CPS, even though it went okay.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pjs* 
I wouldn't have. My thought is always would they be able to handle the situation if say the house caught on fire or a stranger came to the door. I know statistically the chances of your house burning down while you're gone are small, but personally *I* would never be able to forgive myself if something did happen.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Absolutely not, especially to babysit an infant.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
I wouldn't have. I can't even imagine leaving my 8 yo DD home alone (and she is super responsible, and mature for her age) let alone with an infant or younger sibling to care for. Just too many unknowns and it would be out of my comfort level (plus I think here, legally, they have to be 12 to stay home?)

Since it already happened there's nothing you can do about it now, but in the future I would think twice -- you could have got into an accident, burglery, fire, baby choking, and so on (at least, that's where my mind would go).


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

I don't have an eight year old yet, but my gut says, NO.

If DH would have been late, oh well, thats life. Should have woken me up sooner so I could have gotten the kids ready to leave. But again, thats just me.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

i wouldnt have left an 8 yr old with a baby. with an older kid (preschooler up) maybe, but not a baby. maybe because my babe gets upset for no reason and sometimes just bawls and bawls. an 8yo wouldnt be able to handle that. apart from that the what ifs as someone pointed out can happen with me at home. whats done is done but id atleast take the baby with me for the future.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

I probably wouldn't do it. Maybe if the baby was asleep it wouldn't be so worrisome, but if she started choking on something, would your 8 year old be able to do the heimlich? That's the kind of thing that would be a life or death situation that couldn't wait 10 minutes for you to come home. Children usually are allowed to register for a babysitting course and learn basic first aid like that at age 11. I would not leave an 8 year old to babysit.


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## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

No not at all. Is an 8 year old even strong enough to really pick up a baby? The one I nanny for certainly is not. It seems like a very bad idea to me, not to mention illegal in most (all?) states.


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## karemore (Oct 7, 2008)

No. As a mother it's my JOB to consider the what ifs.

There are countless "what ifs" in your scenario.

There's no way I would leave my baby with an 8 year old, and there is no way I'd leave my 8 year old to responsible for the life of a baby.

I'm glad this ended well for you today.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I wouldn't have. It wouldn't have taken any time to grab the baby out of bed to go drop your dh off.

Quote:

Is an 8 year old even strong enough to really pick up a baby?
Mine certainly is. He can carry around his six year old sister, or both of his little brothers at the same time.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Don't second guess yourself over this. At the moment you chose this decision you were happy enough with it to do it, so just leave it there.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

Maybe I missed this, but why didn't your DH drive himself to work?

I would not have left a baby with an 8 year old.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I'm assuming you have seats for your children in the one car. Why not just take them along?

Besides the fact that it is probably illegal in your state to even leave your 8yo alone, 20 minutes can be a long time to an 8 yo when an infant has any incident to make them upset and the 8yo has to deal with it. And at 8mos., a baby knows who to go to for comfort... mommy or daddy and would likely not be easily consoled. I think you put too much responsibility on the 8yo and put them both in danger. No doubt that if something had happened, you would be in jail now for neglect. I see it regularly on the morning news when parents made similar decisions and everything didn't go just right.

ETA: I know you asked for no flames but I think you lapsed in judgment with this decision.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Barring a life or death emergency situation, no.

Not just for the "what if's" but if someone found out, I could risk losing my children through CPS interference, or at best lose a good deal of time and sanity dealing with them.

I can understand wanting to be able to do that. But never would.


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## Autumn C. (Jul 30, 2008)

I wouldn't.

I agree the chances of something very serious happening are small but if something did happen I would have set the 8 year old for an unbearable responsibility and guilt.

So my answer is no.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

not with a baby


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I probably wouldn't have, BUT I totally know my daughter (who's my older one) would be plenty responsible enough to handle herself just fine. I'd be more concerned about something happening beyond my control to keep me from getting back right away.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My two are those same general ages, and no, I wouldn't. It's too much responsibility to put on a child that age.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeighB* 
No not at all. Is an 8 year old even strong enough to really pick up a baby? The one I nanny for certainly is not. It seems like a very bad idea to me, not to mention illegal in most (all?) states.

I recall hauling my infant brother all over the place with me (him on my hip), getting him in and out of bed, changing his diaper; I would have been 8 when he was an infant.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeighB* 
No not at all. Is an 8 year old even strong enough to really pick up a baby?

my dd at 4 1/2 could pick and carry ds when he was a baby. even now dd 7 ds 3 she can carry him everywhere. she is only 8 inches taller and 8 lb heavier then him.

would i ???
i would if i knew the older one can handle the younger one. yes i have done it while i run to the store gone like 5 min. but i cant because all they do is fight if i could i would. i have taught my dd how to behave and what to do and what not to do. i have total trust in her now if she didnt listen or was not able to do it then nope never.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

While I have left my (then) 8 year old home alone for short periods of time I would not be comfortable leaving him with a baby or younger child. He is learning to be responsible for himself but he is too young to be responsible for someone else.

I would have taken the baby with me.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

I wouldn't. I think it's unfair to put that kind of responsibility on an 8 yr old. What if something happened? He'd totally blame himself and that's just not okay.

I was left home A LOT when I was younger. I was a latch key kid from kindergarten up. I'd be home for a few hours a day, alone. I also was left by myself at night or with my (younger) stepsisters while my parents when out drinking around age 8. I just remember being scared all the time. Scared someone was breaking in, scared someone would get hurt, scared I'd get in trouble for something. It was horrible and to this day I still hate being home alone.

It's not an 8 yr olds job to watch a baby.


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## ~ Wonderful Life ~ (Apr 14, 2009)

I would have left the 8 YO and taken the baby. My son was a very mature, responsible 8 YO, but I don't think I would have left him with an infant.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

I see no problem with it. You weren't gone that long, baby was sleeping, DS was fine. You can't let the "what-if's" control your life.

I'm guessing most who said "no" live in the city?


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
It's not an 8 yr olds job to watch a baby.

I disagree; my 8 yr olds (older now) have watched the baby/younger kids while I showered, cooked, etc. and even ran to town (2½ miles away) for something.

Really, I think having an 8 yr old watch a baby for 15-20 minutes is not that big of a deal, especially if s/he is very mature for their age.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
I disagree; my 8 yr olds (older now) have watched the baby/younger kids while I showered, cooked, etc. and even ran to town (2½ miles away) for something.

Really, I think having an 8 yr old watch a baby for 15-20 minutes is not that big of a deal, especially if s/he is very mature for their age.

Yeah, my 3 yr old watches his 19 month old brother while I shower and cook too. However if my 19 month old started choking (or 8 month old if I had one) or fell and hit his head or whatever, I'd be right there, not somewhere else.

And I think it's even MORE dangerous to leave kids alone on rural properties where there are no neighbors. I remember when my best friend growing up's house caught on fire, she ran to her neighbors for help. And my DH grew up on rural property and the rule was you couldn't stay home alone unless you could drive a car (didn't have to be able to drive legally) off the property in case of emergency.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
^^
speaking of, b/c I'm sometimes a bit paranoid -- I would tell him not to mention this at school or to friends... just so that you don't have someone calling CPS, even though it went okay.

He's not in school (we homeschool), so no worries about 'mandatory reporting' here









And he knows not to say anything to anyone else... he realizes that a lot of families aren't like ours, and knows when to keep lips zipped. That said, isn't it a shame that so many ares of our lives are legislated?

It'd be nice to be able to make our own choices without having to worry that CPS will come knocking...









Also:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
I see no problem with it. You weren't gone that long, baby was sleeping, DS was fine. You can't let the "what-if's" control your life.

I'm guessing most who said "no" live in the city?

I'm wondering that too. We do live on a farm, but we're in no way in the boondocks. Our closest neighbor is about 100 yards away, and always home.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

I would leave a responsible occupied 8yo alone. But I would NOT leave the child in charge of an infant. My main concern would be fire. (The 8yo is too old to get into physical trouble in the house, and a baby in a crib is "safe")

An 8yo is old enough to be taught to get out of the house and open the door. But I don't think they are old enough to go get an infant, and then get out of the house with that infant. They might do something like think it's really important to run back for a soother or blanket or some other thing.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
I disagree; my 8 yr olds (older now) have watched the baby/younger kids while I showered, cooked, etc. and even ran to town (2½ miles away) for something.

Really, I think having an 8 yr old watch a baby for 15-20 minutes is not that big of a deal, especially if s/he is very mature for their age.


I'd be 100% ok with an 8yo watching a baby with me in the house.

It's the not being able to help in the case of an actually emergency that would scare me.

I also think that many 8yos are old enough to stay by themselves for that short period of time.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
I would leave a responsible occupied 8yo alone. But I would NOT leave the child in charge of an infant. My main concern would be fire. (The 8yo is too old to get into physical trouble in the house, and a baby in a crib is "safe")

An 8yo is old enough to be taught to get out of the house and open the door. But I don't think they are old enough to go get an infant, and then get out of the house with that infant. They might do something like think it's really important to run back for a soother or blanket or some other thing.

See, I think this is where the individual child comes in. Because my DS would totally grab his sister, then GET OUT of the house. He wouldn't go back in for any reason. When you live in the country, you learn how to handle things from a pretty young age.

I am regularly at the barn with DH and DD while DS is at the house, alone. He has a walkie-talkie and knows how to use it.

Anyway, all this has just made me feel more like I made the right choice. Thanks


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## moaningminny (Dec 31, 2007)

No, I would never consider doing that.


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## sahmmie (Jan 13, 2008)

One fear I would have is that you may only intend to be gone for 20 minutes, but what if something happened that delayed you? For example, an auto accident, heavy traffic, flat tire, etc. Also, if your children were found to be at home alone you could be referred to Child Protective Services. I would never leave my 8 year old home alone, let alone with an infant.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
See, I think this is where the individual child comes in. Because my DS would totally grab his sister, then GET OUT of the house. He wouldn't go back in for any reason. When you live in the country, you learn how to handle things from a pretty young age.

I am regularly at the barn with DH and DD while DS is at the house, alone. He has a walkie-talkie and knows how to use it.

Anyway, all this has just made me feel more like I made the right choice. Thanks









The kids are usually in the house while I do the chores & such too, and I have no worries, even when the older 3 are gone & it's the younger 3 by themselves. It's too cold now to bring them all outside anymore.

Glad you feel you made the right choice; I would've done the exact same thing







.


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## newmommy7-08 (Feb 2, 2008)

No, I wouldn't have done it... but I also tell dh frequently that poor planning on his part doesn't make an emergency on mine. He'll learn the hard way that he has to be more prepared.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

i'd leave an 8 yo home alone (i think i started staying home alone after school for a couple of hours when i was 6) but i don't think i'd leave him in charge on such a little baby.

it seems you feel fine about your decision so i'm not sure my comment adds anything here, but my opinion is that baby is just too little, no matter how responsible he is.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

I would have been fine as an 8-year-old (and was) in that situation. I was babysitting the neighbor's 3-year-old twins the next year, at age 9, with my mother down the street. I have a feeling my eldest will also be pretty mature and level-headed in that respect by age 8, as well. She does pretty well right now, at all of 5 years and 4 days. I wouldn't leave her in charge of her younger brother, but there are plenty of adults I don't leave in charge of him either. He's a pretty inventive kid.

It really depends on the kiddo. Some kids are quite mature at age 8 and capable (and eager) to handle some responsibility like that. Depending on the family dynamic, by that age they may well have a lot of practical experience, as well. Other kids, other families, other lifestyles and personalities, not so much.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OboePlayerMom* 
You know your children better than anyone. If you're okay with it, then that's all that matters. I think my DS will be similarly responsible at that age.

I agree, if you feel comfortable and think your son can handle the responsibility then go ahead.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

this was normal in some families 50 or so years ago.

yes i would have no problems doing it if my 7 year old agreed and i would have let the neighbour know.

i also knew if something happened and i wasnt home, my dd could go to our neighbour or call my friend or who ever i had asked her to call.

i know she is capable of it, because when seh got lost in a crowd when seh was 4 she remembered my cell phone number and called me and we found each other.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

I would be okay with leaving an 8yo to watch an infant for 20 minutes in an emergency, if I knew that the 8yo was very responsible.

However, I personally would have found it just as easy to put the baby in the car. I can see it taking a longish time to get a dawdly 8yo to get dressed and out the door... but a baby you just have to scoop up and pop into the car seat, it takes 60 seconds. That's less time than it would take to go over with the 8yo what I was doing and where I was going.

Also, I don't think being an extra couple of minutes late for work warrants an emergency. If we were rushing off to the ER, sure, but I don't think this was worth leaving the baby behind. So, no.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sahmmie* 
One fear I would have is that you may only intend to be gone for 20 minutes, but what if something happened that delayed you? For example, an auto accident, heavy traffic, flat tire, etc. Also, if your children were found to be at home alone you could be referred to Child Protective Services. I would never leave my 8 year old home alone, let alone with an infant.











For me, it's just not worth the life-altering, possible consequences.


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## webjefita (Aug 16, 2003)

I'm not really sure. I would let my son at 8 take care of the baby while I was in the house (shower, etc.) My 6 yo is already very good with the baby, and can carry her, and I encourage him to take care of her when I leave the room and go do things. But being away from the house is very different. I would worry about something happening *to me* and me not getting back on time. So I'm not sure, but leaving kids home alone will probably be older than 8. And with another backup adult on alert (neighbor).


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I'd have done the same thing.
My boys are almost 4 and 6.75, and I would leave them home while I drove my husband to work. In a couple years, I'd trust my oldest son with a baby, especially a sleeping one. He's very responsible, though, and most kids his age don't seem as capable.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

I am pretty surprised by this thread. 8 year olds can be pretty responsible.

Quote:

this was normal in some families 50 or so years ago.
I knew families who did this when I was young too (NOT 50 years ago







). Kids are much more capable than we give them credit for in our paranoid society.

That said, I would NEVER leave my mature, responsible 8 year old alone. I know he couldn't handle it. But that is just him, he could absolutely not keep a level head if things didn't go according to the plan. If he didn't get so anxious I could see him doing well for a few minutes alone with a younger sibling. I don't think it should be a regular thing, but once in a while if the situation comes up I don't think it is a big deal with the right child.


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## morgainesmama (Sep 1, 2004)

I have friends who had a very laid back parenting style. They often left their children home alone for a few minutes, and in varying combinations -- their girls were like 10, 6, 4, and 2 (maybe 7, 5, and 3?).

One day, after many times of having done this safely, the girls having called their parents safely, etc., they went to their storage shed a couple miles from their house, and the two middle girls wanted to stay home. On this particular day, the older girl changed her mind about staying home and decided she should walk to the storage center.

She was picked up by an officer during the walk, and you can guess what they went through next -- not to mention, she left her younger sister at home alone.

This was a mature, capable, lovely girl who had shown herself to be responsible on many occasions. It's easy to say "My child wouldn't do that." These parents didn't believe their child would do that.

I simply would not do it. What-if's aside -- the "what if child protective services took my children into the care of strangers" is too great of a what-if. It doesn't have to be mandatory reporting at school. It could be a friend, a friend's mother, a doctor, a neighbor. And asking your son to be secretive about it sounds psychologically harmful to me -- it gives him the idea that it's wrong, and he has to keep it secret to keep himself and you safe.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
However, I personally would have found it just as easy to put the baby in the car. I can see it taking a longish time to get a dawdly 8yo to get dressed and out the door... but a baby you just have to scoop up and pop into the car seat, it takes 60 seconds.

Yeah.... you don't know my DD!! If I scooped her up and put her in her carseat, waking her from a dead sleep (because it WOULD wake her) she would freak out.

This way, she got to sleep until she was ready to wake up







and I wasn't driving compleately distracted by a screaming baby. That said, I told DH not to wake me up so close to time to leave again


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *morgainesmama* 
And asking your son to be secretive about it sounds psychologically harmful to me -- it gives him the idea that it's wrong, and he has to keep it secret to keep himself and you safe.

We simply explain that there are many laws out there, some of them are silly, but since we 'have to' follow them, he shouldn't tell people when we don't. We are raising him to be thoughtful and mindful about things, not to simply follow along with the herd mentality.

Not saying anyone on here is doing that!! Just saying we don't want to.


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## Lilypie32 (Aug 19, 2008)

I would not leave any child under the legal age limit home alone. Something could go wrong quickly to you or the kids. I'd have made dh be late or he could have taken the car.

There was a mom recently in the news who left her two young children at home while she went out, there was a fire, and both children died.

I could not live with myself if something were to happen.


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## morgainesmama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
We simply explain that there are many laws out there, some of them are silly, but since we 'have to' follow them, he shouldn't tell people when we don't. We are raising him to be thoughtful and mindful about things, not to simply follow along with the herd mentality.

Not saying anyone on here is doing that!! Just saying we don't want to.

While I totally understand your logic, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, secrets are a hot button for me -- you are absolutely welcome to disagree, but it's my opinion that the same line of logic is often used by perpetrators of abuse.

I'll not berate the point, but it's a point I felt compelled to make for your consideration.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Being that the leading cause of death among children in this country is motor vehicle accidents, the kids were safer at home.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I have no idea what I would have done in that situation, but its clear that it was a rough morning for you and you made the best decision you could at the time. So no flames here, mama.


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## emilyjace (Apr 1, 2009)

On the legal aspect, I believe that 8years old can be left alone but not sure about babysitting. Does anyone know or have a reference?


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Being that the leading cause of death among children in this country is motor vehicle accidents, the kids were safer at home.

Yep.

Anyway, I would (and have) left an 8yo home alone. It's not illegal where we live. Whether I would leave an 8yo in charge of a baby would depend upon the child. My friend's daughter would be perfectly fine taking care of a baby for 20 minutes. Neither of my sons would have been at that age. Neither of them had any experience with babies.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

I don't have a baby, and I live in a very different situation than you do, but I often left my son alone at nine for short periods while I ran to the store or something similar. He knew how to contact me by phone (we each had a cell) and knew to go to the concierge in our apartment building if he had a problem.

I think if we had had a baby that was ours (e.g. that he lived with and had seen me care for every day and participated in their care) he probably would have been able to handle the baby, but I'm just speculating since we don't.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I would, and have, done this. I do think it all depends on the child. With several of my children, this was something I could do in a heartbeat. Yet, there were a couple that I would never consider leaving alone, much less in charge of a sibling.

It is a good thing that I now have a house full of teenagers!







Always someone there in an emergency to watch the LO.

As for keeping secrets. Well, I have to say, it depends. We have a policy, "What happens (or is said) in our house stays in our house". I know it kinda sounds like we are hiding something, but we are not. We have explained to our children that there are just some things that are private and are not the business of anyone else. (Usually it has to do with conversations that we don't want repeated to other family members because they are always taken out of context. And I have had to "fix" misunderstandings when my child has repeated a statement I made but was totally misunderstood and started a family fued.)


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

In our county, it's illegal to leave a child alone for more than a minute until they are 12 or older. I agree with all of the other posters who think this is a major CPS risk. The children would be immediately taken away in our area, if this were found out.

I can think of many reasons why this would be not worth it at all:
fire
choking
head injury
slip and fall while holding crying baby

I know that I would never leave my children under the care of someone who showed that sort of judgment, to tell the truth.

I have an 8 year old who is extremely mature, very bright and resourceful and I would never ever do it. I was a mature child and babysat an infant and a 3 year old for an entire weekend once when I was 11, and I did fine, but I would never have watched an infant alone when I was 8.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
ETA: I know you asked for no flames but I think you lapsed in judgment with this decision.

I agree. This was beyond a lapse in judgment though, it was illegal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *morgainesmama* 
While I totally understand your logic, as a victim of childhood sexual abuse, secrets are a hot button for me -- you are absolutely welcome to disagree, but it's my opinion that the same line of logic is often used by perpetrators of abuse.

Totally. Bad, bad precedent. As a child, my mother made us keep all sorts of little tiny secrets and it was such a burden. As an adult, I just want nothing to do with my constantly fibbing relatives.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

No flames here, but I do urge you to think about the things that could happen and do happen to children when left in these situations. My main concern would be that your DS would get so engrossed in whatever he was doing (especially a video game) that he might forget that the baby was there, or forget that he was responsible for the baby. Also, if you got into a car accident, even a fender bender, the likelihood of police finding out that your children are home alone would be very high.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

No, I wouldn't. 8 yo's can be mature enough to care for babies and pets, and cook, etc. But, those responsibilities should be supervised at this age, imo.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Being that the leading cause of death among children in this country is motor vehicle accidents, the kids were safer at home.

The overall leading cause of death in children of all age groups is MVA, but it isn't the leading cause of death in each age group. Non-MV accidents are a more common cause of death in little kids, and MVA are overwhelming the leading cause of deaths in teens. Here are some stats in NY state that show the breakdown by age groups.

Household injuries (drowning, falls, poisoning) are a significant cause of death in little kids. I suspect that it would be (and was) an even more common cause of death if 8 yo's were responsible for supervision.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

No, I would not do that. IMO...if you wouldn't leave the two of them home alone for 2 hours, you shouldn't do it for 20 minutes Something could have easily happened to delay you (ie. auto accident, car trouble, traffic jam, etc.). Stuff like that happens ALL the time. You basically put yourself in a position of being several miles away from a baby and young child left home w/o adequate supervision.

IMO....leaving chldren home alone to do something that involves getting in a car and driving someplace is VERY different from leaving them alone to go outside and get the mail or go to the barn and take care of animals. Once you leave your property, there are A LOT of things outside your control that can happen to delay you. Not to mention the fact that it IS a huge CPS risk.

My daughter will be 8 in a few months, and while she is very mature and responsible, she would have no clue to what to do if the baby so much and woke up and started crying. She would probably have trouble lifting a baby out of the crib and wouldn't be able to comfort a baby that only wanted mama. Yes, she "watches" her little brother while I take a shower, but if he starts crying she just opens to bathroom door and sticks him inside with me, and if he started choking or fell down and hurt himself, I'm still right there and accessible.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think it's pretty unlikely anything would have happened. The most likely bad scenario would have been that the baby would have woken up, the child would have picked the baby up and moved the baby, the baby would have kept crying because he/she wanted mama, and the child would have gotten overwhelmed by an baby he/she couldn't make happy. Which isn't that bad of a thing, but I wouldn't put my older child in that position.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
Yeah.... you don't know my DD!! If I scooped her up and put her in her carseat, waking her from a dead sleep (because it WOULD wake her) she would freak out.

This way, she got to sleep until she was ready to wake up







and I wasn't driving compleately distracted by a screaming baby. That said, I told DH not to wake me up so close to time to leave again









Better a screaming baby in the car than a dead baby at home with the blame being laid on an 8 yo boy who was put in charge if one of those "what ifs" actually happened. Can you even imagine the psychological torment he would be in the rest of his life if something bad happened? Let alone for you, as well. It sounds like you did this for your convenience, not because you had planned and discussed doing this. This wasn't a planned trial run, which was discussed before hand, to see if your child could handle being alone for 20 minutes with an infant. This was a last-minute decision and your son had no instructions about what to do in different cases.

My cousin is a family law attorney. She, all the time, deals with situations like you've described you did. Most of them end up simple CPS cases because the kids were fine, just left alone. But some have been just a quick run to the store or to work, two young kids, and one of them getting injured, the parent having car trouble, etc. etc. and in one or two cases over the years, it's resulted in a child dying. Yeah, statistically it's not likely, but it has to happen only one time to make you that statistic. I just think it was a very irresponsible thing to do. However, I am a much older mama here and many of the mothers here could be my child, so perhaps my caution comes from just being in the world longer. And I grew up rurally... I know the dangers of a farm. I would NEVER leave a child of 8 on their own rurally. No matter how responsible.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree with Velochic that it isn't a question of whether the child is responsible. The question is whether that responsibility is fairly placed on a child. When our new baby was born, we were talking about how older dd needs to keep things that can be choked on out of areas where the baby roams. And then we realized that we have to be careful with how we word this. She's pretty responsible and does a good job of keeping little pieces of things out of the family room, BUT we can't make make that her responsibility, no matter how responsible she is. What if the baby DOES find something and DOES choke and dies? Would it be fair that we put that responsibility on our older dd? She'd blame herself forever. We, as adults, have to take on the responsibility of watching her and making sure nothing she could choke on is in her vicinity.


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## laura163 (Sep 13, 2002)

No.

Not only because of what could happen at home, but what could happen to YOU while you are gone. Deer, drunk drivers, car problems. I can't imagine freaking out on the side of the road knowing my child and baby were home alone.


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## reece19 (May 21, 2008)

I wouldn't have had a problem leaving either of my girls at home with a baby at that age, for up to half an hour or so. They would have been capable of getting themselves and the baby out of the house in case of a fire, and would not have answered the door to strangers. More than half an hour...I would start to worry, but they'd probably be fine.


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## noobmom (Jan 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cappuccinosmom* 
Barring a life or death emergency situation, no.

Not just for the "what if's" but if someone found out, I could risk losing my children through CPS interference, or at best lose a good deal of time and sanity dealing with them.

I can understand wanting to be able to do that. But never would.

I agree with this. In a serious, life and death emergency, I would if I had no other choice (example: running over to the neighbor's house to help). To take my husband to work? Nope, illegal and not worth it the potential real what-ifs nor the CPS what-ifs.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
The overall leading cause of death in children of all age groups is MVA, but it isn't the leading cause of death in each age group. Non-MV accidents are a more common cause of death in little kids, and MVA are overwhelming the leading cause of deaths in teens. Here are some stats in NY state that show the breakdown by age groups.

I'm not going to get into a battle of statistics, but those are very different than the statistics I've seen with a similar breakdown of age groups. They were national stats though, not based on a specific state. I wonder if NYC might skew those stats for NY state. Anyway, in the stats I've seen, the only age group where MVA was not the leading cause was kids under one. It wasn't other accidents though that were the top cause but rather congenital issues.

Regardless though, there were risks either way. I think the occupied mature 8 year old and the sleeping baby were quite safe while mom ran a 20 minute errand. I think chances are high that they were in the exact same position when she got home. I might have made the same decision given the circumstances.

ETA - after further review, it does look like NYC did skew the stats a little. I didn't notice earlier that under the stats for the whole state there is a breakdown for NYC and the rest of the state. In the rest of the state, for the age group 5-9, the percentage of deaths for motor vehicle injury and non-motor vehicle injury was exactly the same from 2005 to 2007, and from 1999 to 2001 the percentage of deaths by motor vehicle injury was slightly higher than non-motor vehicle injury.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I wonder if NYC might skew those stats for NY state. .

the link breaks it down for all of NY state, NYC, and areas outside of NYC, if you are curious. Just scroll down.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
the link breaks it down for all of NY state, NYC, and areas outside of NYC, if you are curious. Just scroll down.

Thanks. I noticed after I posted and edited my post.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
ETA - after further review, it does look like NYC did skew the stats a little. I didn't notice earlier that under the stats for the whole state there is a breakdown for NYC and the rest of the state. In the rest of the state, for the age group 5-9, the percentage of deaths for motor vehicle injury and non-motor vehicle injury was exactly the same from 2005 to 2007, and from 1999 to 2001 the percentage of deaths by motor vehicle injury was slightly higher than non-motor vehicle injury.

Right. And in the 1-4 yo range, there were more than twice as many non-MV accidental deaths than MVAs in each year range. And no MVA deaths under the age of 1 year in either year range, which is surprising to me. Non-MV accidental deaths made the list for under the age of 1. If you are going to consider the dangers of driving, it makes sense to also consider the dangers to an infant in the home--especially when in the care of child.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 

It's not an 8 yr olds job to watch a baby.

In other countries the 8 and 9 yo siblings take care of the babies. Esp. the girls. However, I'm sure they are not far away from adults. No flames, but no matter how responsible I thought my children to be, there are just too many 'what-ifs'. My children are my responsibility. Yes, there are many, many times I'm outside in the barn or garden, but my kids know where I'll be, which window to yell out of, etc... if they need me for anything. And I'm never out for more than 15-20 minutes at a time. Then my mama gut makes me go in and just check.

I've had my 10 yo in the house w/my younger 2 while I gardened in extreme heat. I would set the timer on the stove and ask her to please check out the window to make sure I wasn't passed out from the heat (and strict instructions about what to do if I am!). She would go to the appropriate window and tell me the timer went off and ask if I'm gonna come in and cool down.

Never would I leave the property and leave any of them alone w/an infant or any child under the age of 3. The only exception was when I'd run next door for a minute if baby was sleeping. BUT, my baby monitor also picks up that far away, and I would take it w/me.


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## MamaOf3Cuties (Jun 19, 2008)

No way. No how. To begin with that's illegal in every state that I am aware of and is actually CPS worthy. If there were an emergency I don't think any 8 year old could deal with it. If a fire broke out. A burglar broke in. God knows what could happen. You hear of cases like this on the news where a parent loses their children to death because they just left for a few minutes. It's just not safe whatsoever. I have a very responsible 14 year old, and I don't even leave him alone with the little ones for long.


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## MamaOf3Cuties (Jun 19, 2008)

Also what would happen if you were in an accident and the kids were left at home. What happens to them if something happens to you and you're not able to answer your phone?


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

I'd never do it ... and furthermore, I would immediately report such a situation to CPS as I am a mandated reporter. Catastrophe happens in seconds. As a paramedic, I shudder at the thought of what the OP could've come home to.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Right. And in the 1-4 yo range, there were more than twice as many non-MV accidental deaths than MVAs in each year range. And no MVA deaths under the age of 1 year in either year range, which is surprising to me. Non-MV accidental deaths made the list for under the age of 1. If you are going to consider the dangers of driving, it makes sense to also consider the dangers to an infant in the home--especially when in the care of child.

I'm certainly not advocating anyone ignore any potential dangers. But personally, I think often times people have a warped sense of risk usually due to the media. So many people freak out over fire but seem so complacent about driving. I thought it was rather interesting too that several people's what if was what if you were in an car accident.







It seems no one bats an eyelash when someone straps their kids in the car and goes barreling down the highway, but people flip out when some leaves their kids in car for 45 seconds while remaining within sight to go pay for gas or when they leave their very responsible mature 8 year old with a sleeping baby at home for a few minutes. And really that's all I have to say. I've spent too much time on this already







. Carry on







.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaOf3Cuties* 
To begin with that's illegal in every state that I am aware of and is actually CPS worthy.

It's not specifically illegal in my state. There is no minimum age when parents can leave children at home unsupervised. There is a fire code statute in which children _under_ the age of 8 cannot be left alone in a _locked_ dwelling, but that's it. I'm sure CPS can intervene when they see fit, but it's on a case by case.

My mom was a social worker and is currently a volunteer advocate for children in the system. Based on what I know of CPS and the court system, I'm quite certain one would have to do way worse than the OP to have children removed.

Also she left me alone for short periods starting around age 7. And I was babysitting infants and young children by 11. I think the standards for what is considered safe have changed pretty drastically in the past couple of decades, but I don't think it's based on reason but due to media hype of horrific stories. And that really is it for me







.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'm certainly not advocating anyone ignore any potential dangers. But personally, I think often times people have a warped sense of risk usually due to the media. So many people freak out over fire but seem so complacent about driving. I thought it was rather interesting too that several people's what if was what if you were in an car accident.







It seems no one bats an eyelash when someone straps their kids in the car and goes barreling down the highway, but people flip out when some leaves their kids in car for 45 seconds while remaining within sight to go pay for gas or when they leave their very responsible mature 8 year old with a sleeping baby at home for a few minutes. And really that's all I have to say. I've spent too much time on this already








. Carry on







.

That is the most level headed post yet.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

I agree that the media does have a lot to do with the general paranoia out there today. The smallest incident, the rarer the betters is blown up and overplayed. Especially during a slow newsweek!

However I do believe that each parent has a responsibility to keep their children safe. The levels at which they do does very greatly by age and by child.

In the OP's particular case I think what bothers me is the infant sibling portion. My son is 8 and using his class a guideline I think the majority would be perfectly cable of being home alone for 25 minutes. They all know how to use a cell phone and they all know *how* to dial 911. I would say around 80 % would be able to maintain enough composure to dial it in a true emergency (fire, etc). The other 20%, not so much but then again I am not their parents so I am judging how they handle having to take turns at the monkey bars or waiting while the birthday boy or girls opens gifts, LOL.

But the infant sibling adds another element. Now you are asking an 8 year old to be responsible for another person. He not only needs to be careful for himself in an emergency but he needs to take care of the infant too. A fire breaks out and he now needs to remember the exit plan to get himself out safely but he also needs to get his infant sibling safely out of the house.

My son is very mature for his age and a very capable young boy but I don't think I could *ever* put that much responsibility on him. Not because I am paranoid by the what ifs but taking that kind of chance is not fair to him.


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'm certainly not advocating anyone ignore any potential dangers. But personally, I think often times people have a warped sense of risk usually due to the media. So many people freak out over fire but seem so complacent about driving. I thought it was rather interesting too that several people's what if was what if you were in an car accident.







It seems no one bats an eyelash when someone straps their kids in the car and goes barreling down the highway, but people flip out when some leaves their kids in car for 45 seconds while remaining within sight to go pay for gas or when they leave their very responsible mature 8 year old with a sleeping baby at home for a few minutes. And really that's all I have to say. I've spent too much time on this already







. Carry on







.

When you "strap your kids in the car and [go] barreling down the highway" you, as a mature, responsible adult who has passed a licensing process are making the conscious, informed decision to do so. An eight year old child given the responsibility of caring for an infant is not making a choice and cannot give informed consent even if they 'wanted' to at that -- by definition -- immature age.
Not a logical comparison at all.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

No flame here, Mama.

The value of a thread like this is that it gets me to think about situations in advance. I can totally imagine being very tempted to leave my children in the situation you describe. The baby's in a crib... asleep... the older child is safely occupied, reasonable and responsible. I'll be gone five minutes.

But thinking about it, no I wouldn't do it. Eight is very young, and kids tend to regress in an emergency. Even if the child is able to say exactly what they would do in a given scenario- who to call, escape routes A, B, and C- what they would actually do when scared and panicked is unpredictable.

I used to teach and we had a couple of emergency situations arise. At those times I was surprised how young the children acted. Otherwise mature 14 and 15 year olds clinging to me like preschoolers. They had done dozens and dozens of fire drills and evacuations in their lives, yet when faced with potentially the real thing they had no idea what to do and stared at me in panic. Again, these were teenagers.

I'm not criticizing, I totally understand why you did what you did and would be really tempted to do so myself. But having had the chance to sit down and think it through (without making hubby late for work), I'd have bundled the baby and the eight year old into the car. And told hubby next time to plan ahead and wake me up earlier!


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

No flame but no I wouldn't do it. As mature as one thinks their 8 year old may be, they lack critical thinking and reasoning skills necessary to behave in an emergency situation. I wasn't even leaving my 8 year old (at the time) sister home alone. I didn't start leaving her for short periods until she was about 10-11. I never would have left her with an infant.

I remember when I first had my DS, my neighbor at the time had a 12 year old daughter. She made mention to me that her daughter was certified as a sitter and had infant CPR. All I remember thinking was "great but no way in he11 will I leave a newborn with a 12 year old". JMO.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
When you "strap your kids in the car and [go] barreling down the highway" you, as a mature, responsible adult who has passed a licensing process are making the conscious, informed decision to do so. An eight year old child given the responsibility of caring for an infant is not making a choice and cannot give informed consent even if they 'wanted' to at that -- by definition -- immature age.
Not a logical comparison at all.

I was comparing actual risk and perceived risk. I'm not sure what you're comparing, but I agree, it's not logical.


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## annekevdbroek (Jun 5, 2005)

I would not. I don't think an 8 year-old is old enough to take care of a baby, no matter how mature that 8 year-old is.


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## AliciaP8 (Dec 15, 2005)

We left our very responsible 8 year old home alone for a half hour or less once or twice. Not with other responsibilities like another person though.

This isn't meant to be a scary story but some insight into what a very mature kid can do wrong.

First, I didn't get back as planned. There was a car accident on the road and I was blocked from getting home. I couldn't reach him with my cell phone so I waited and worried.

When I got home a car had come up our driveway ahead of me. I knew who it was but I guess he did not. He'd always been told to stay upstairs and not answer the door if someone came. For whatever reason he didn't do that. He decided somehow that somethign bad was happening. He ran out the back door into the woods to hide til I came home.

I was shocked he'd act that way. This was a kid who never did anything bad or really got into trouble. He just made a bad decision. I tend to think it was justtoo much reponsibility for him at that time.

ETA: Under 12 is aginst the law here.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

risk factors (and the likelyhood of anything bad actually happening) aside... I have a hard time understand WHY anyone would leave their child(ren) at home short of an emergency, or say not enough room in the vehicle (and really, then the DH could call himself a cab, or take the bus). Not wanting to wake a sleeping baby b/c you don't want to deal with them potentially screaming for the 20 min drive, or making an 8 yo stop playing video games b/c it's time to go are no way in heck valid excuses for doing this. I'm sorry, and I know I responded yesterday w/o sounding this harsh, but it's been bothering me to the point I talked to DH to see if I was way off with my feelings (something I almost never do, he rolls his eyes a bit about my "cyber mom homies" whatever). Really, even a small risk, to me, seems not worth it. Yes, there is a risk in taking your children in a motor vehicle, and possibly more so than leaving them at home unattended -- but in the responsible scenario you are physically there with your children.

My neighbor leaves her 8 yo granddaughter home alone for hrs sometimes, and when her DD does go with she will often leave her in the car alone to go into stores. I guess I just don't get it at all. This is a well behaved, easy going kid. What the heck is the big deal with taking them with you to run errands? My DH, BTW, thinks CPS should be called and I would guess that the vast majority of adults would agree with him.

When we have children, we commit to being 100% responsible for their safety. Sometimes that means running late to places, or being inconvenienced in other 'dragging the kids along' ways. That's pretty much what you sign up for when you become a parent, IMO.

I know that there eventually comes an age where you feel comfortable enough leaving them home alone (I'm not saying you have to be attached by the hip until they are 18, or anything) I just, personally, would never in a million gazillion years think it would be a good judegement call to leave an 8 year old at home with an infant (baring an unavoidable true emergency situation).

Clearly, there are plenty of loving mothers here that disagree with me. I guess I'm just surprised, is all.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

I agree w/ Drummer's Wife-- the risk seems minimal, but the "benefit" seems even smaller. I would consider an eight year-old "possible child care in the event of an emergency," not "childcare to increase convenience a little bit," if that makes sense.

I wouldn't, and my primary reason for not doing would be the legal issues involved.


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I'm certainly not advocating anyone ignore any potential dangers. But personally, I think often times people have a warped sense of risk usually due to the media. So many people freak out over fire but seem so complacent about driving. I thought it was rather interesting too that several people's what if was what if you were in an car accident.







*It seems no one bats an eyelash when someone straps their kids in the car and goes barreling down the highway, but people flip out when some leaves their kids in car for 45 seconds while remaining within sight to go pay for gas or when they leave their very responsible mature 8 year old with a sleeping baby at home for a few minutes.* And really that's all I have to say. I've spent too much time on this already







. Carry on







.

What I've bolded is a comparison. So that is what I was responding to.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

I really can't believe some of the responses to this thread. She didn't leave him with a screaming baby for hours, the baby was sleeping, it was 20 minutes or less, and he was playing games. There was no danger, nothing out of the ordinary going on. He had the phone, and knew how to call if there was a problem.

I'd still like to know if those who are so uptight, worrying about the "what-if's", and say "no", do you live in the city? I'd probably feel differently if we lived in the city, but we don't. I don't even know if there are laws for ages for kids to be alone here, or what it is if there is such a law, which I feel is unnecessary and terribly intrusive into our lives.


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## SubliminalDarkness (Sep 9, 2009)

Not under any circumstances. There are situations that could arise that your older child simply could not handle.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
the baby was sleeping, it was 20 minutes or less, and he was playing games.

It doesn't take much for a sleeping baby to become a crying baby. And 20 minutes of crying baby can feel like a long time, particularly for an 8-year-old when the 8-year-old is the only one there to take care of it. That isn't fair to the 8-year-old.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
What I've bolded is a comparison. So that is what I was responding to.

Yes, I understand what a comparison is and what you were responding to. I still don't understand how what you posted relates to my point which was that people often don't assess risk accurately. You were discussing informed consent and informed decision making which I think is a completely different matter. Maybe we should just agree to disagree...or agree to not understand each other







.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

It's hard for me to imagine. I have an 8 yr old dd, but she would absolutely freak out if I left her alone or with her 6 yr old sister. They'd both freak. They're somewhat responsible and I wouldn't worry about them wreaking havoc or taking the other car for a joyride or leaving the house or anything, but they just would really not like it. The only time I've left them alone in the house is when I went to check on our elderly neighbor right across the street after she'd fallen. I was gone about 10 minutes and the girls were watching TV. If they hadn't been watching TV they woudl have freaked out, too, but they also knew right where I was and knew they could come get me. I have been tempted to leave them while I took the dog around the block (15-20 minutes and again they could come find me), but they won't go for it.

Dd1, in particular, was a very high needs baby so I can't imagine having a baby that would be content enough to be left with big bro. Dd2 was also somewhat high needs. Just couldn't imagine leaving them with anyone, but DH and, frankly, I had trouble with that. They were big criers and dd1, in particular, was not easily consoled.

So, if I think about some imaginary baby and an imaginary 8 yr old I can see where it might seem like an okay idea, but in my personal experience it would just never fly. I'd scoop them both up and throw them in the car with DH. It would take 2 minutes more.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

What does living in the city or the country have to do with it?


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## AGF (Aug 6, 2009)

Why not just throw them both in the car in their jammies?


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## ms.shell (Jul 25, 2008)

someone posted this:

Quote:

There was a mom recently in the news who left her two young children at home while she went out, there was a fire, and both children died.
i am very familiar with this story, as it happened in my town. i just wanted to say that this situation was VERY different than the op's scenario. The children were 5 and 6 yo. The mother didn't leave them to "go out;" she left them alone in a hotel room (where they were living) to go work the graveyard shift at a fast food restaurant (so they were alone for 8+ hours overnight). The older son had a history of playing with fire, and he was the one who set the fire that killed him and his brother. It also came out in the trial (of the mother, for manslaughter) that the hotel did not have working smoke detectors.

to the op, i have been tempted to leave my 8 yo and sleeping baby alone while i run literally around the corner on an errand, but have always decided i better not...thinking about what if i were in an accident. i haven't considered what others have brought up, about it not being fair to the 8 yo, but i see this as a valid concern as well. I am glad that everything went smoothly for you this morning, but i do think it would be safer and wiser to not do this again. at least take the baby with you or let your dh take the car. no flames, though!


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## Lilypie32 (Aug 19, 2008)

That is exactly the point. If mom had been home supervising her children, the fire would not have happened and those 2 boys would be alive.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lilypie32* 
That is exactly the point. If mom had been home supervising her children, the fire would not have happened and those 2 boys would be alive.

8 hours alone regularly and 20 minutes ONCE are not the same thing. Working fire detectors would have made a huge difference too. Apples and oranges.


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## JL83 (Aug 7, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
8 hours alone regularly and 20 minutes ONCE are not the same thing. Working fire detectors would have made a huge difference too. Apples and oranges.


A fire can be started and kill inside of 20 minutes... And fire detectors only make a difference if the person inside the house have the presence of mind not to freak out and to calmly exit the building.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
What does living in the city or the country have to do with it?

Most city people are more uptight and paranoid about things, it seems. That's just the impression I get though, I've never lived in a city. So they would tend be more cautious about things. Country people tend to be more laid back, at least we are.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JL83* 
A fire can be started and kill inside of 20 minutes... And fire detectors only make a difference if the person inside the house have the presence of mind not to freak out and to calmly exit the building.

Obviously, but the two situations are not at all comparable. You can twist it to make them sound similar, but the OP's child was not a known fire starter left alone all night in an unsafe environment. Her child has shown responsibility, was left for a short period of time ONCE, and didn't have a history of starting fires. Different situations entirely.


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

I grew up in the country& live rural ( not on a farm) There are to many what ifs. A 8 yr old would never forgive them selves if something happended. Even older kids dont act as you expect in emergencies ( sometimes). What IF the OP got in an accident ( not her fault). As I said earlier its illegal in Maryland and it IS so for a reasn. Starting at 8yrs a child can be left alone for short periods of time ate 13 they can be in charge of younger children. Yes its only 20 minutes but a lifetime can change in those 20 minutes.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

I wouldn't have done it. I was an "extremely responsible" girl in the eyes of my parents, teachers, etc..."smart, good judgement," you name it. They probably wouldn't have guessed that as an 11 year old babysitting an infant while the mom ran to the grocery store that I would have been too small to get the baby out of the crib so I stood on a rocking chair (only chair in the room) to get him, or that when he turned one that I would have done the heimlich (sp) on him because I was dumb enough to give him a candy heart to eat (choke) on....


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## MangoMommy (Oct 20, 2008)

I have a 9 yr old DD, 7 yr old DS and 5 mo old and no way would I leave either of them alone in this situation with the baby. I'd toss them all in the car and go, enough time or not. That's what we do all the time. I just personally am not comfortable with it.


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## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
Most city people are more uptight and paranoid about things, it seems. That's just the impression I get though, I've never lived in a city. So they would tend be more cautious about things. Country people tend to be more laid back, at least we are.

I've lived in several cities, the suburbs, and a few small towns in the country. IME there are laid back and uptight people everywhere. Can we try to avoid the stereotyping and stick to the topic? Thanks.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

Most city people are more uptight and paranoid about things, it seems. That's just the impression I get though, I've never lived in a city. So they would tend be more cautious about things. Country people tend to be more laid back, at least we are.
Stereotype alert!

Also, while I would not have left an 8-year-old home alone or with a baby, for any amount of time, I find this city/country thing interesting. It would seem much safer to do this in the city, especially in an apartment building where a kid could run next door for help. In the country he might have the terrible choice of trying to raise help on the phone or leaving the baby to get help.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

I don't have time to read all the replies, but

VERY FEW STATES in the US have any laws about how old a child has to be to stay home alone or to babysit a sibling. That's called parenting. There are people in my state who often claim we have some kind of law about age 9 to stay alone for any period of time. It's not true.

IMO it is dangerous to think this way. If you want a gov't who tells people when their child is mature enough to stay home for a few minutes or a few hours, you're going to get a gov't who will tell you that you can't sleep with your baby or will go to jail if you don't vaccinate.

Now, I don't know that I would have done it, but I am pretty sure my grandmothers would have done it before the age of cell phones, and Caroline Ingalls would have done it leaving on a three-hour walking round trip to town in the age when we still had wolves and children cooked on wood burning stoves.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

I havent read throught the entire thread since my last post, but it just occurred to my husband and I (We were JUST talking about this) What if you got caught in traffic, and 20 minutes suddenly turns into an hour, or two? Not to mention, My DS2 (when he was younger, maybe 6 months) can go from sleeping baby to crying hysterically and unconsolably baby in 30 seconds flat. I wouls just feel better if the kids were with me. Personally, my husband would just have to be late for work. He agreed, itsd his responsibility to get to work on time, therefore he would rather be late then potentially put one of are kids in a not so good situation.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

It depends on the kid. I couldn't have left dd1 home alone at that age, let alone with a baby there too, she just wasn't ready. Dd2, I could leave, and would be happy to leave her with a baby sleeping in a crib at that age (moot point, dd2 is my last).


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I don't have time to read all the replies, but

VERY FEW STATES in the US have any laws about how old a child has to be to stay home alone or to babysit a sibling. That's called parenting. There are people in my state who often claim we have some kind of law about age 9 to stay alone for any period of time. It's not true.

IMO it is dangerous to think this way. If you want a gov't who tells people when their child is mature enough to stay home for a few minutes or a few hours, you're going to get a gov't who will tell you that you can't sleep with your baby or will go to jail if you don't vaccinate.

Now, I don't know that I would have done it, but I am pretty sure my grandmothers would have done it before the age of cell phones, and Caroline Ingalls would have done it leaving on a three-hour walking round trip to town *in the age when we still had wolves and children cooked on wood burning stoves*.

I don't know anyone who cooks their children on wood burning stoves. Usually it's over an open fire on a spit.







(Just trying to lighten the mood.) Caroline Ingalls is a poor example of frontier women, as it is an inaccurate and fictional account by a woman in her 60's trying to remember her life 50 years ago. The books are written for children for a reason. And the children weren't suddenly thrust into a role of being responsible for an infant within the span of 2 minutes. They were BROUGHT UP to carry this responsibility. And the kids weren't left preoccupied with an engaging video game. They were prepared and had instructions and were left in charge in gradually increasing time increments... and left in charge with adults at home with supervision before ever being left all alone. This case of the OP's was a responsibility THRUST upon a young child that had not been given the proper tools to navigate different situations. That's unfair to both the infant and the child.

The problem with *no* laws for latch-key kids is that it's open to interpretation and therefore at the discretion of the judge. Which is worse?

And for the record, I don't know of any cases where anyone was jailed for co-sleeping or not vaxing. You are fear mongering now.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiflywaif* 
Stereotype alert!

Also, while I would not have left an 8-year-old home alone or with a baby, for any amount of time, I find this city/country thing interesting. It would seem much safer to do this in the city, especially in an apartment building where a kid could run next door for help. In the country he might have the terrible choice of trying to raise help on the phone or leaving the baby to get help.

That was my thought too - not only are there plenty of people of both types in both areas, I think it's much safer when there are neighbours right next door, more taxis available to the mum, etc.

I was left alone with responsibility for other kids at that age and I remember it being emotionally taxing. I wouldn't say scarring, but it definitely is not something I would choose for my child. As an adult I find a baby crying stressful, and that's really the most likely thing - just that the baby would wake up unhappy for whatever reason.


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I would be comfortable leaving DD (8) alone for an hour or so, but not in charge of a younger sibling.

At this point however, I do leave her inside to 'keep an eye on' a sleeping baby when I'm outside. If the baby wakes, she just calls out to me to come inside.

However, my dd is newly 8 (today!) and is about as flighty as they come. If you have a more attentive/mature 8 year old, it might well be different.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
INow, I don't know that I would have done it, but I am pretty sure my grandmothers would have done it before the age of cell phones, and Caroline Ingalls would have done it leaving on a three-hour walking round trip to town in the age when we still had wolves and children cooked on wood burning stoves.

Sure, my great-grandmothers left children with little supervision out of necessity. But, in my very own family, children _died_ from accidents in and around the home/farm. "The good ole' days" aren't so rosy.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

My 8 yo (soon 9) is mature in that she takes responsibility seriously, has high impulse control, and is known to be patient with and protective of her younger sibling. I have trusted her to watch her little brother while I shower, or to keep him safe while playing behind a closed door. But she is (thankfully) completely untested in an emergency. I hope to keep it that way, but if there _is_ an emergency, I have no idea if she would keep it together enough to save herself _and_ a sibling. I'm not going to put her in that situation, if I can absolutely help it.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
That was my thought too - not only are there plenty of people of both types in both areas, I think it's much safer when there are neighbours right next door, more taxis available to the mum, etc.

I was left alone with responsibility for other kids at that age and I remember it being emotionally taxing. I wouldn't say scarring, but it definitely is not something I would choose for my child. As an adult I find a baby crying stressful, and that's really the most likely thing - just that the baby would wake up unhappy for whatever reason.

And that's partly personality, partly experience.

At age 8, I was definitely being left alone at home at times, and often being left in charge of younger siblings (in the afternoon; my parent started having me evening babysit for my sibs about age 10; my fifth and final sib would have been about 12 months old then). I was herding a group of younger kids 1 mile each way to and from school each day. But at age 8, I was the oldest of 4 sibs, had years of experience in doing some of the "taking care" of infants, and had the type of personality that found that type of responsibility to be fun. I also could and did (by choice!) cook dinner about once a week for my family at age 8: what I could make was spaghetti + canned sauce, pizza from "scratch" (jiffy mix crust, sauce from a can, shred cheese myself), and impossible lasagna (http://diet-recipes.hypermart.net/br...pie-recipe.htm).


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

No I would not.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

No, I would not. In this state it is illegal.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
IMO it is dangerous to think this way. If you want a gov't who tells people when their child is mature enough to stay home for a few minutes or a few hours, you're going to get a gov't who will tell you that you can't sleep with your baby or will go to jail if you don't vaccinate.

See, I find your line of reasoning far more terrifying. Basically what I hear when I read this line of thought is that you are objecting to laws that could have a dramatic effect on the safety of children who are in jeopardy right now, the kind of children I work with, because you imagine that it might conceivably have an effect on your children.

I live in an area where there are specific laws about the legality of what the OP described, and yet we don't jail parents for not vaccinating, or interefere with co-sleeping. It is, in fact, possible.


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## rere (Apr 21, 2005)

Here are the laws for each state.


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## gaudynight (Sep 10, 2007)

No. DD1 is 7; she knows that if anything happens and I've passed out/lost the ability to speak/whatever, she's to call 111 (NZ's emergency number) and then DH on his mobile. We talk about how to do it and what to say. In the event of an emergency? DD1 would freak out and probably be incapable of doing either.

DD2 is 5. She knows all that as well, and in an emergency would probably call not only 111 and DH but the neighbour, MIL, her best friend, the pastor...

So I wouldn't leave DD1 alone, even for five minutes, because she's a very anxious child at the best of times. DD2 at 8? Possibly, though I'm pretty sure it's illegal here. But with one or more of the little ones? No. Never. It's my job to responsible for babies, not hers. There's a difference between keeping an eye on the baby when I'm in the shower or in the garden, and being responsible for your sibling when your parents aren't immediately, physically accessible.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
Here are the laws for each state.

Interesting link, but upon a quick perusal, I didn't see if children of that age are allowed to babysit. Are they?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
And that's partly personality, partly experience.

At age 8, I was definitely being left alone at home at times, and often being left in charge of younger siblings (in the afternoon; my parent started having me evening babysit for my sibs about age 10; my fifth and final sib would have been about 12 months old then). I was herding a group of younger kids 1 mile each way to and from school each day. But at age 8, I was the oldest of 4 sibs, had years of experience in doing some of the "taking care" of infants, and had the type of personality that found that type of responsibility to be fun. I also could and did (by choice!) cook dinner about once a week for my family at age 8: what I could make was spaghetti + canned sauce, pizza from "scratch" (jiffy mix crust, sauce from a can, shred cheese myself), and impossible lasagna (http://diet-recipes.hypermart.net/br...pie-recipe.htm).

Well I had experience too but my point is that at 8, a number of kids may not be ready, but at 12, more of them are - why put your kid in that position when in a few years it's not likely to be as much of an issue.

I was the responsible kid and I did not share my fears, so my parents didn't know that I was stressed out about it.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gaudynight* 
No. DD1 is 7; she knows that if anything happens and I've passed out/lost the ability to speak/whatever, she's to call 111 (NZ's emergency number) and then DH on his mobile. We talk about how to do it and what to say. In the event of an emergency? DD1 would freak out and probably be incapable of doing either.

*DD2 is 5. She knows all that as well, and in an emergency would probably call not only 111 and DH but the neighbour, MIL, her best friend, the pastor...*

So I wouldn't leave DD1 alone, even for five minutes, because she's a very anxious child at the best of times. DD2 at 8? Possibly, though I'm pretty sure it's illegal here. But with one or more of the little ones? No. Never. It's my job to responsible for babies, not hers. There's a difference between keeping an eye on the baby when I'm in the shower or in the garden, and being responsible for your sibling when your parents aren't immediately, physically accessible.

That just cracked me up! This sounds a lot like what my 6 year old would do.


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## littleteapot (Sep 18, 2003)

I echo previous posters who said: *you know your son better than anyone.*
With that in mind, if you're confident? And for 20 minutes or less (or your pizza's free!)? Sure. When I was a kid we were all left home alone for hours at that age...

But I'm also the terrible, horrible, no-good, CPS-worthy mom who does things like leave my kids watching TV to run (literally) across the street and get some coffee cream in my pajamas and bare feet.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
And that's partly personality, partly experience.

At age 8, I was definitely being left alone at home at times, and often being left in charge of younger siblings... I also could and did (by choice!) cook dinner about once a week for my family at age 8: what I could make was spaghetti + canned sauce, pizza from "scratch" (jiffy mix crust, sauce from a can, shred cheese myself), and impossible lasagna (http://diet-recipes.hypermart.net/br...pie-recipe.htm).

OMG! My specialty was Impossible Cheeseburger Pie







I had completely forgotten about that long lost dish - totally making it this week for dinner!

The Summers of my years 8 & 9 I babysat my brother (who was 1 & 2 respectively) 5 days/week 8 hours while my mother worked. That's just how it was. It honestly never occured to me that it might be illegal. I think it was that first Summer I was really into deviled eggs. Every day for lunch we had deviled eggs and diet rite. Some might call that child abuse, but I call it delicious!

My daughter is 3, so I have no realistic frame of reference as to what 8 looks like in my own child, but I think I could find reasonable safety reasons to never leave my child alone ever, regardless of her age.

OP - you have 7 pages of commentary - do what jives with you! (...and...er... if what you're doing is illegal, don't get caught!)

ETA: I also wanted to note that I really appreciated the responsibility of babysitting. It made me feel respectable! I was also our weekend "babysitter" when my parents would go out on a date or whatever - it was really an honor for me!


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I didn't read the thread but I might depending on how mature my kid turns out to be. People have some unrealistic overreactions to children. I refuse to spend my life afraid. Yes I take reasonable precautions. But your kids are more likely to die in a car accident if you take them with you than to get hurt at your house in 20 minutes. You are more likely to have a 20 minute CIO situation and while not ideal that has yet to kill anyone.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

First off, you already did it right? So what is done is done. I would not make a habit of it truthfully. My one big question that may have been adressed since i only read the first 50 posts before relpling is how does your son feel about it happening.
About 20 years ago my parents did this to me, only it was really early morning with a 6 month old and a 5 year old, and my mom was gone about 45 minutes. It bothered me then and I can still remember the fear I every minute she was gone. I did not tell her how much it bothered me then until about a year later when I brought it up out of the blue. So I would ask your son if you haven't how it made him feel, and if he was really completely ok with it, then just let it go.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I wouldn't do it, but I don't think it's horrible or anything.

I like the suggestion to ask your son how he felt about it -- hopefully he'd be forthcoming if he experienced anxiety about it, and then you'd know if he's not ready for that kind of responsibility.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

No flaming here, just information:

1. 20 minutes is like a lifetime if something goes wrong. Baby starts choking, your 8 yr old falls and hurts himself, someone comes over and finds your kids alone. A whole lot can happen in 20 minutes, even though it seems like such a short time. Many here say their 8 yr old would be able to go get help, but what if it's the 8 yr old who's in distress?

2. What would have happened if you'd had an accident and couldn't get home for *hours*? No one who gets into an accident knew "Today's the day I have an accident", it's always unexpected. And a high % of car accidents happen close to home. And it could take hours and hours to return home in case you have one.

3. In most states, leaving an 8 yr old alone with an infant is officially neglect. even though you only meant for it to be a few minutes, many things could have happened to delay you and you really don't want someone else finding your 8 yr old and baby and reporting you to child welfare.

4. Even though it's a pain in the butt, it's always better to at least bring the infant, if not the infant and the 8 yr old with you.

ETA: I just saw the part where apparently you told your son not to tell anyone and you mentioned "silly laws"? I have a lot of thoughts that just don't seem worth sharing about that, but I will say this: some laws exist for a reason. I hear way too many stories of babies injured in this exact circumstance, and seriously, laws aside, I just don't see why if your husband really can't afford to be late it's not worth it to upset your infant to at least be sure she's safe.

At the end of the day, all over the world parents are doing things every day no one is ever going to know about. We all take calculated risks. Sounds from your responses that you've already calculated that this one isn't a big deal to you and you'd do it again. I think that's unfortunate, but if you do it I just pray your kids are ok. Cuz it sounds like you truly don't think this could go badly.


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## Areia (Mar 5, 2009)

I haven't read the replies yet, but depending on how my 2 year old turns out, I might have done the same. Kids that age can be very responsible. At 9 I was watching my 3 and 2 year old siblings while my parents worked a part time , 3 hour job. It was fine. I was even allowed to play out in the yard with them if the weather was nice. I knew how to call for help and which neighbors to go to if needed, but nothing ever came up and although they never came around specifically, I'm sure the neighbors were keeping an eye out too. I'm only in my 30s, but times were different then. On Saturday mornings, I would take my parents' paychecks to the bank with the mortgage ticket and deposit slip. The bank had no problem doing both of those transactions and giving me some cash back. I don't think that would happen these days!


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

I think it's interesting that any mom that posted that she left her baby to cry for 20 minutes in his crib while she sat in the next room would be excoriated on this forum.

But if she leaves the _house_ all these people are saying "oh, the worst that could happen is that the baby woke up and cried for 20 minutes."

Let's make up our minds, people!


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
I think it's interesting that any mom that posted that she left her baby to cry for 20 minutes in his crib while she sat in the next room would be excoriated on this forum.

But if she leaves the _house_ all these people are saying "oh, the worst that could happen is that the baby woke up and cried for 20 minutes."

Let's make up our minds, people!

But in the OP's case, the baby wouldn't have been *left* to cry. The baby's brother would have been there. _Leaving_ a baby to cry means _ignoring_ the baby.

I'm assuming that the OP would have expected her son to tend to the baby if the baby began to cry.

Just sayin'.


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## littleteapot (Sep 18, 2003)




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## baileyandmikey (Jan 4, 2005)

My dd is very responsible at almost 8, but if she picked up the baby while he was throwing a fit, and dropped him, it would be a horrible thing. So, no I wouldn't leave them home alone, just my 2 cents.


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

I haven't read all the replies...but I just have my two cents...I have a very mature 9 year old boy and my youngest son is 7. But, I would not leave either one or both home alone, not nec b/c of what might happen to them, but what might happen to me... What if I were in an accident and wasn't back in 20 mins like planned? How would my oldest deal with that...I dont know....but I think we have a few years before we try any stay at home alones.

That said, I was babysitting when I was 10.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
My DH, BTW, thinks CPS should be called and I would guess that the vast majority of adults would agree with him.

Wow. That's a pretty big reaction. What about being responsible for our own children? If it's my decision, I take the consequences. It's not someone else's job to decide I'm doing something wrong and report me...

And I realize you were talking about your neighbor. But really, what about letting people parent their own children?

There are many variables that I did not put in my post, so how can anyone on here make the judgment that it was wrong?

That being said, I don't plan to do things that way again. And the only reason I did is because my instincts told me that everything would be fine. And it was. I would never do something like this if I had the slightest doubt something could happen.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama~Love* 
I really can't believe some of the responses to this thread. She didn't leave him with a screaming baby for hours, the baby was sleeping, it was 20 minutes or less, and he was playing games. There was no danger, nothing out of the ordinary going on. He had the phone, and knew how to call if there was a problem.

I'd still like to know if those who are so uptight, worrying about the "what-if's", and say "no", do you live in the city? I'd probably feel differently if we lived in the city, but we don't. I don't even know if there are laws for ages for kids to be alone here, or what it is if there is such a law, which I feel is unnecessary and terribly intrusive into our lives.

I love you


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
IMO it is dangerous to think this way. If you want a gov't who tells people when their child is mature enough to stay home for a few minutes or a few hours, you're going to get a gov't who will tell you that you can't sleep with your baby or will go to jail if you don't vaccinate.

Now, I don't know that I would have done it, but I am pretty sure my grandmothers would have done it before the age of cell phones, and Caroline Ingalls would have done it leaving on a three-hour walking round trip to town in the age when we still had wolves and children cooked on wood burning stoves.

I love you, too


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
And the children weren't suddenly thrust into a role of being responsible for an infant within the span of 2 minutes. They were BROUGHT UP to carry this responsibility. And the kids weren't left preoccupied with an engaging video game. They were prepared and had instructions and were left in charge in gradually increasing time increments... and left in charge with adults at home with supervision before ever being left all alone. This case of the OP's was a responsibility THRUST upon a young child that had not been given the proper tools to navigate different situations. That's unfair to both the infant and the child.

And for the record, I don't know of any cases where anyone was jailed for co-sleeping or not vaxing. You are fear mongering now.

First, my DS has been brought up to know how to care for his sister. If he hadn't been, there's no way I would have left him there with her. He can often stop her crying, even when I can't.

And, no one is fear-mongering. The point is, how legislated do you want your life to be? When are we allowed to be parents? How many choices should we be allowed to make for our kids? Some, most, none?


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## littleteapot (Sep 18, 2003)

There actually are quite a few cases of parents having their kids taken away for co-sleeping, home birthing, not vaccinating, extended breastfeeding... Google it.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
I wouldn't do it, but I don't think it's horrible or anything.

I like the suggestion to ask your son how he felt about it -- hopefully he'd be forthcoming if he experienced anxiety about it, and then you'd know if he's not ready for that kind of responsibility.

I did - before I left the house. I said 'what if I leave you here with DD while I take Daddy to work?' And he looked at me with a look of surprise and delight and pride and said 'yeah, sure Mom.'


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
Wow. That's a pretty big reaction. What about being responsible for our own children? If it's my decision, I take the consequences. It's not someone else's job to decide I'm doing something wrong and report me...

And I realize you were talking about your neighbor. But really, what about letting people parent their own children?

.

Well, first of all - I would never call CPS short of true abuse situations - but my DH has a right to his own opinion, no? Claiming that the vast majority of adults would agree with him was maybe a bit of an exaggeration - but the people in my circle who I've mentioned this situation to, agree with him, so that's where I'm coming from.

Also, I do have a 'big reaction' to my neighbors situation b/c it's not similar to yours in that they have left her home alone for 20 min. one time. They leave her home frequently, and she has expressed multiple times that she is afraid when this happens - and it is often hours and hours until someone comes home. These people are very well off, with a million dollar home and a ton of hired help so I have no clue why they don't ask someone to watch her. AND, she does things such as cooking grilled cheese on their 8 burner stove in their gourmet kitchen while she is home alone - fine for a kid her age, under supervision, though. Just so you know, there's a lot more to the story - but I do have every right to be judgmental in this situation, b/c it ends up impacting me and my family (who often watches the child).

You can do whatever you see fit when raising your kids, yes, but do be prepared to have people disagree when you make decisions such as what you did. Clearly, not everyone is comfortable leaving a young child at home with an even younger sibling - for any amount of time.

I just personally see the risks outweighing any potential benefits and would have taken the extra 2 minutes to toss the kids in the car.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
Well, first of all - I would never call CPS short of true abuse situations - but my DH has a right to his own opinion, no? Claiming that the vast majority of adults would agree with him was maybe a bit of an exaggeration - but the people in my circle who I've mentioned this situation to, agree with him, so that's where I'm coming from.

Also, I do have a 'big reaction' to my neighbors situation b/c it's not similar to yours in that they have left her home alone for 20 min. one time. They leave her home frequently, and she has expressed multiple times that she is afraid when this happens - and it is often hours and hours until someone comes home. These people are very well off, with a million dollar home and a ton of hired help so I have no clue why they don't ask someone to watch her. AND, she does things such as cooking grilled cheese on their 8 burner stove in their gourmet kitchen while she is home alone - fine for a kid her age, under supervision, though. Just so you know, there's a lot more to the story - but I do have every right to be judgmental in this situation, b/c it ends up impacting me and my family (who often watches the child).

You can do whatever you see fit when raising your kids, yes, but do be prepared to have people disagree when you make decisions such as what you did. Clearly, not everyone is comfortable leaving a young child at home with an even younger sibling - for any amount of time.

I just personally see the risks outweighing any potential benefits and would have taken the extra 2 minutes to toss the kids in the car.

Your neighbors situation does sound odd. Thanks for realizing every situation is different







I mean that with totally no snark at all.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
I did - before I left the house. I said 'what if I leave you here with DD while I take Daddy to work?' And he looked at me with a look of surprise and delight and pride and said 'yeah, sure Mom.'


















Sounds like you did good then







.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
Your neighbors situation does sound odd. Thanks for realizing every situation is different







I mean that with totally no snark at all.

oh, I totally realize every situation is different







and I will fully admit that the neighbor girl was on my mind when I read your OP - so that influenced my opinion a bit.

We're all doing the best we can, and considering your screen name







I'd guess your kids mean the world to you.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

I haven't read the entire thread, but saw enough comments to get the general gist of it. Personally *I* wouldn't leave my 7 yr old son home with his younger sister for a few minutes _because_ he doesn't have the skills to deal with situations that may arise and because to be frank, he's a raving coward like I was at that age. Otherwise, I really think it depends on the child. We have regressed our children significantly in this country to the point where I do see that it is to their detriment when they get older. I can't tell you how many grown boys I meet rather than "men", and it does have a negative impact on them. If you raise your children to have responsibility from an early age and they are capable of dealing with situations, then no, I don't see any issue with it whatsoever.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
Please, no flaming, okay? I'm just wondering if there are any Mama's out there with really responsible 8 year old boys who would leave them with a eight month old baby for less than 20 minutes to run their spouse to work. Because that's what I did this morning.

I would've done it. I grew up in a farming family, and by 8, I had tons of responsibilities, including watching after 3 cousins who were 4, 4, and 3. I don't think age necessarily makes one unable to watch after others. OTOH, I'd be hesitant about leaving a couple of 13-year-olds I know with my kids.


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## Landover (Oct 12, 2007)

I have not read all (or even most) of the replies. Just to answer the OP's question of whether or not I would do it.....

Ummmmmm...... NO. My first thought is what if you were in a car accident? That is much more likely then a kidnapper coming to the door, etc. Can you imagine you son's worry and anxiety when you did not come home after an hour? If you say he would not become anxious because he is so mature, then I would say that *not* being anxious is a sign of immaturity when there is clearly reason to worry. Not to mention how CPS would have loved to have heard about how the police went to your door and found your scared 8 year old at home alone with your infant. That would be a whole other bag of worms to contend with.

I my opinion, you dodged a bullet this morning.... don't pull the trigger again.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
We're all doing the best we can, and considering your screen name







I'd guess your kids mean the world to you.

Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting that we're encouraged to trust our 'Mama instincts' when it comes to knowing what's best for our own children, but when we do, sometimes others can not see beyond their own biases of what 'they would do' in that situation. Not talking about you, I've read some of your other posts and I think you're pretty level headed. Some people, tho...

What really gets me is that no one can know another person's reality. So, for someone to say that I should or should not have done what I did, bothers me. For someone to say they wouldn't have done it, is another thing altogether. Anyway, I digress.

I don't really think I'd do it again, but I'm glad I did this time. For many reasons, which I won't get into here.


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Landover* 
Ummmmmm...... NO. My first thought is what if you were in a car accident? That is much more likely then a kidnapper coming to the door, etc. Can you imagine you son's worry and anxiety when you did not come home after an hour? If you say he would not become anxious because he is so mature, then I would say that *not* being anxious is a sign of immaturity when there is clearly reason to worry. Not to mention how CPS would have loved to have heard about how the police went to your door and found your scared 8 year old at home alone with your infant. That would be a whole other bag of worms to contend with.

Wouldn't most children call mom to see what was up though if she was gone too long? When I was taking night classes and DS was 3, he would often call me while I was driving home from school because he was scared (his dad would be in the bedroom putting his sister to bed). Honestly my kids aren't mature enough to leave totally alone, but even at 3 my son knew how to call his grandma and that if he didn't get ahold of me while DH was in the other room he would call her. I would hope that an 8 yr old who's mom felt he was responsible enough to stay home alone with a younger sibling would know to do the same!


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## lovemybubus (Oct 2, 2007)

Just a question:
If child services were called, would they _really_ take the kids away or is that just part of people's what-ifs??

And for the record, I trust the mom's judgment. Not all kids are responsible by the "legal" age and some are responsible way before that. I don't think a loving mom would put her children in danger.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovemybubus* 
And for the record, I trust the mom's judgment. Not all kids are responsible by the "legal" age and some are responsible way before that. I don't think a loving mom would put her children in danger.

Sorry, I have to say that this just isn't true. We're foster and emergency care parents, and I see lots of parents who love their kids but still put them in danger. (Moms and dads.)


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovemybubus* 
Just a question:
If child services were called, would they _really_ take the kids away or is that just part of people's what-ifs??

And for the record, I trust the mom's judgment. Not all kids are responsible by the "legal" age and some are responsible way before that. I don't think a loving mom would put her children in danger.


If CPS found a 8 yr old caring for an infant here YES in a heart beat. It is neglect/ abandonment on the part of the infant. The 8 yr old can legally stay alone for short periods of time here but NOT care for someone. "I" would not want my children pull out of my home even for 48hrs and put in emergency foster care till you pleaded your case. Its not something I would want to put on my 8 yr old to remember not to let it slip he is left alone with his infant sibling.


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## choosewisdom (Apr 29, 2009)

I have a very mature and responsible 10 year-old daughter that I would not leave at home alone. That being said, this singular incident is over and you can always choose different next time. When I had an 8 year-old and infant at home and my ex-husband and I only had one car, I often stayed at home without a car if we were unable to take the children along to drop him at work (one of the children being sick, waking up late, etc.) It wasn't fun, and I am happy to have a much better financial situation and be a multiple car family (if we didn't live so far out of town, that wouldn't matter to me anyway).


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## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

Yes I would OP. I was also that same 8yr old & I watched my then baby sister all the time.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rere* 
Here are the laws for each state.

Yeah, uh, that site quotes an NBC station in Augusta that Georgia has a minimum age to be home alone. We don't. Shockingly, the source for laws on age to be home alone is going to be an actual law.


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## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
In our county, it's illegal to leave a child alone for more than a minute until they are 12 or older. I agree with all of the other posters who think this is a major CPS risk. The children would be immediately taken away in our area, if this were found out.


There is no legal minimum age in my state for children to be left at home, or to babysit. So I definitely varies from state to stat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThoughtFullMama* 
I did - before I left the house. I said 'what if I leave you here with DD while I take Daddy to work?' And he looked at me with a look of surprise and delight and pride and said 'yeah, sure Mom.'










That's sweet. I was going to say that I would ask my DS if he was ok with it and if he was I would trust that and my instincts. My DS has always been very realistic and accurate in his judgments about what responsibilities he's been ready to handle.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 

Now, I don't know that I would have done it, but I am pretty sure my grandmothers would have done it before the age of cell phones, and *Caroline Ingalls would have done it leaving on a three-hour walking round trip to town* in the age when we still had wolves and children cooked on wood burning stoves.

This is an old thread, but I just wanted to say that she actually wouldn't-- according to the Plum Creek book, she took Carrie to town with her at age three (explicitly because she was too little to be without Ma) rather than leave her at home with Mary and Laura (9 & 6, or something like that).... and, along the same lines, when she *did* leave them all a little later, there was a blizzard and they were almost snowed in..... and they were not allowed to touch the stove.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverSky
In our county, it's illegal to leave a child alone for more than a minute until they are 12 or older.
Wow. So you can't even walk down to grab your mail from the curb while your 11-year-old is inside? That's a ridiculous law.

I think it would probably be OK if the child were actually alone for 20 minutes. It's really just the responsibility of watching a baby I think is too much.


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## ThoughtFullMama (Oct 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaterPrimaePuellae* 
This is an old thread, but I just wanted to say that she actually wouldn't-- according to the Plum Creek book, she took Carrie to town with her at age three (explicitly because she was too little to be without Ma) rather than leave her at home with Mary and Laura (9 & 6, or something like that).... and, along the same lines, when she *did* leave them all a little later, there was a blizzard and they were almost snowed in..... and they were not allowed to touch the stove.

That might have been because she was still bf'ing







a nine and six year old can't do that! And even if she was almost weaned, being gone all day long with a baby still even partially bf'ing is a bad idea. So it may not have been their ages. Just saying.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

post deleted by poster


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Love these old threads!

I'll just add that I can see myself doing that once or twice but I wouldn't make a habit of it and would worry the whole time.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Probably, but I'd recognize that it might be illegal in my state (when I was growing up the age was 10 in Oregon) and I'd look up the law afterward before I shared what I did with all and sundry.

Oh, and "probably" is based on the fact that since you were comfortable with it, your son must've had the maturity level to give you confidence in the situation. I don't mean that I'm likely to leave 8 year olds alone with or without infant siblings







.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Wow. So you can't even walk down to grab your mail from the curb while your 11-year-old is inside? That's a ridiculous law.

I think the laws are usually worded so that "home alone" refers to the property. Also "a minute" is more than enough time to go get the mail.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

FIRST: it depends on the child. I was also a very mature 8-year-old. I think I was more like 9 or 10 when I first watched the neighbor kids (both talking, so not infants) across the street, while my mom was home, for a short time (less than two hours).

SECOND: It depends on the child. I did know a family who left their ~11-year-old boy at home while taking the younger child on an errand. The 11-year-old called his Mom, he woke up and the house was on fire. He got himself out just fine. The house was burnt to the ground, but the family was all safe (even the pets).

THIRD: I wouldn't suggest making a habit of it. 8's pretty young to have this responsibility on a regular basis.

I don't remember when the first time I babysat my then-three younger siblings while my parents were gone. Probably 11, since this was Nebraska and apparently NE actually legislated that age.

The first time or so, as an occasional responsibility, it was absolutely an honor and a privilege. "Yeah, sure. No problem."

It was the regular, more than once a week and sometimes day-in & day-out, *unpaid* and very rarely rewarded babysitting, throughout my teenage years, of all five sibs (two baby brothers born while I was in high school), plus acting as family chauffeur, etc. that I resented.

Since when does 15 days an old thread make?


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *journeymom* 
Love these old threads!

I'll just add that I can see myself doing that once or twice but I wouldn't make a habit of it and would worry the whole time.

This.

As long as he was Ok with it, I KNEW the baby was going to sleep till I was back, and that DS knew what to do if baby woke up early, I might do it.

I am not into what-ifs ruling our lifes....

Moreover, the liklihood of an responsible 8 year old and a sleepping baby coming to harm is no greater in a house than in a car (what with the accident rates).

I would not do it regularly -on an emotional level it is too much responsibility to saddle a young child with.

I also think it is interesting that people are upset it is a baby/ 8yr old combo. I would be less inclined to leave an 8 year old with a toddler or young preschooler than a baby. Babies cannot get out of their crib, and are often quite safe if you put them on the floor with baby safe toys (or in an exersaucer for crawler). Toddlers though? Nope...they move, lol.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcstar* 
Since when does 15 days an old thread make?









It's all relative, but there was an 8 day laps between post #166 and #167. The thread was started November 27, the day after Thanksgiving, and I only posted yesterday.

Though I suppose that's not as bad as the periodic resurrection of the Service Chicken thread.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
_Leaving_ a baby to cry means _ignoring_ the baby.

I agree with chinaKat re: the CIO thing, and I'm really not understanding how LEAVING the baby at home, attended to only by another small child, while you go somewhere, is somehow better than ignoring the baby while you're there in the same house?

I also have to second the point that a PP made upthread: What if the 8-year-old is the one injured/choking/etc. instead of the baby? Who would help him?


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

i remember babysittting for neighbors with children when i was *10*. times have changed. back in the day, parents wouldn't have thought twice about leaving an 8 year old with a sleeping infant for 20 minutes.

that said, if you were to do it again, make sure there is a next door neighbor home and "on call" should an emergency arise, and that your son has that phone number written down right next to the phone.

the CPS threats, notwithstanding.


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## Cherry Alive (Mar 11, 2007)

No... And I say "no" as someone who was a child that young left alone to "babysit" by a neglectful single father...sometimes overnight even. While nothing happened to me, it was just not a good age to be left alone-even for a few hours.

Sometimes things seemed okay, but there were times it was scary to be alone. If an accident had happened to myself or my sister, it would have not been good at all. Even though I'd just have to go to a neighbor, it'd have been very traumatic to deal with without my folks, and I could totally imagine that CPS would have been involved if we ended up at the hospital.


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