# Please? No. Please? No. PLEASE? No. PLEEEEAAAAASE? NO!!!......Please? Aack!



## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

My 2.5 yo DD does. not. give. up. She is the most persistant living creature I have ever known. It's making me bonkers.

I'm posting today because I hollered at her and feel badly about it. She really got to me and I'm wondering if anyone has a similar child and can offer suggestions on how to not lose one's mind.

Today she was asking for a butterfly clip for her hair. I was cooking and couldn't get it for her right away. She asked for the clip and I told her that when mommy was finished she would get one for her. It turned into a marathon back-and-forth for I don't even know how long. I was nice, I explained the situation, I meant what I said, I offered suggestions of what she could do in the meantime but she did not stop asking. I eventually told her that she needed to wait and that was the end of the discussion. She kept at it, pulling on my pants, whining "Please. Get it now. Please mommy, now. Get a clip for me now! GET..IT...NOW!...Please?..Mommy? Please get a clip for me." I tried ignoring her but after the constant asking I started getting really irritated and snippy before I snapped. I grabbed her and shouted NO! right into her face.







Not a proud Mommy moment but oh my gosh, she was making me NUTS.

It wasn't an issue of her needing a clip for some bigger purpose that I wasn't taking the time to discover. She just wasn't going to stop until I gave her what she wanted. The thing is, she's like this with EVERYTHING. We try really hard not to give in to her and for the most part we are successful, but not without having to hear it non-stop or deal with a subsequent tantrum/breakdown. It's exhausting.

Her hearing has been tested and we know she hears just fine. She is an extremely bright child and I know she understands when I tell her no or to wait. I'm sure her persistence will be an asset to her when she's older but for now it's really, really annoying.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone else BTDT?


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

"Mommy's hand are busy right now. Go play and I'll come do your hair clip when I'm done". Repeat twice. Then ignore her. You must follow through or this will get worse.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

On the upside, that persistence will come in handy when she is older. If she wants to learn physics, and finds it difficult, she will most likely bug her teacher/instructor until she gets the help she needs. Not much comfort in that right now, though!

I found that talking about it until I could do it (whatever the "it" is at that moment) helped. In your example, it would be something like "I need to finish what I'm doing, then get your clip. Your clip is still waiting for us. Not quite time to get the clip. A couple more minutes to clip-getting." Or "I still remember. You're waiting for your clip. Let's think of something to do while you're waiting." And sing the song from Mr. Rogers.


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## raidercake (Mar 8, 2010)

I read an article about this at some point, somewhere, and we have had some success using it. Basically after the first ask you give the answer. ("I want my clip!" "I am cooking right now and will get it for you in a bit.") Then after that you simply respond "Asked and answered." (As in, you already asked that and I already answered it.) it acknowledges that you hear them but your answer is not going to change, no matter how many times they ask it.

I've also found that a "pretend" whatever works sometimes too. DD will ask for ice cream before dinner and instead of arguing, I tell her we can eat pretend ice cream. Then we talk about what flavors an toppings we're eating and it distracts her from the original request. Maybe yours could sound like, "I can't get your clip right now, but I have this pretend clip I can put in your hair. It's so pretty with butterflies and sparkles. Do you want me to give it to you?"

Good luck, mama, that constant asking makes me want to lose my bananas.


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## MiddleRiverMama (Dec 2, 2012)

Harvey Karp has great patience building or patience "stretching" exercises in his book "Happiest Toddler on the Block." The key is to make them wait for short periods many times throughout the day, and then gradually increase the wait time while praising their patience. Example, "Mommy I want a cookie." "OK, I'll get it for you." Go get the cookie but don't give it to her right away. Then say: "Oh, hang on just a second honey, I have to do one thing quickly first." Turn your back for 15 seconds and pretend to be doing something. Then give her the cookie and praise her waiting. When she gets good at 15 second, extend to 30 seconds, and eventually to minutes and then several minute periods. His premise is that toddlers are simply not rationale, so calmly explaining to them that you are busy and will get it for them as soon as you can is like speaking another language.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Oh, this is SO my kid. I try so hard to do what Philomom suggests, but what I really want to do is take that g-damn hair clip and rip it into a million pieces so it can never be asked for again


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Mine's pretty persistent then throws a fit at my feet. I ignore her. We follow a combo of these sugggestions...I don't continue to answer her as I know it's in one ear and out the other. I simply tell her to please wait, mommy is busy, or in a minute. She's starting to repeat back the "in a minute" as she walks away and I make sure to not keep her waiting too long as I know the key to her learning patience is rewarding it at a level she can handle. If I really can't take it or the tantrum is leading to destruction or her possibly getting hurt, I will drop what I'm doing, pick her up, carry her to her room and put her in her crib until I can clean up/finish what I need to do then focus on her after. It give me a chance to take a deep breath, and refocus.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

BTDT. I hate it when I yell, but it happens sometimes. As for stuff like this I usually just say I'll get it in a minute and then just keep saying that. When he goes into a tantrum I will say, "I'm sorry that you are sad. I know it's hard to wait." But I will not give in.

Unless I lose it and yell. :-( In that case it ends up with me apologizing and him apologizing and after all that he finally gets the damn thing he wanted LOL.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

I disagree about toddlers not being rational. They live in the moment and have trouble waiting, that's true, and is rational for someone of that age. Calling it irrational is demeaning. Toddlers deserve respect, just like every other human being. Their behavior and understanding is different. That respects who they are. Calling it irrational disrespects them. I also have never known a toddler to be actually fooled by pretending you are busy. That's the surest way to have the toddler view *you* as irrational!

The approach of praising may have merit, but only in real situations. There is controversy around "too much praising", and children becoming praise junkies. I don't know if I agree with that. I do know that I never remembered to praise, so never tested that.


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## MiddleRiverMama (Dec 2, 2012)

Pek64, I totally agree that babies and children and people of all ages should be respected. Perhaps rationale was not the best word choice. I think toddlers communicate in different ways than adults and we need to speak to them in a way that can be understood. Too often I see people giving their toddlers long complicated explanations for things that there is no way they can understand. Karp's philosophy is that we need to be ambassadors for our children and try to speak their language. His work is magnificent. Probably my shorthand explanation did not do it justice.


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## boater (Oct 19, 2008)

What I have been doing is to coach dd in how to wait politely for short periods of time. For her the issue was not knowing what I wanted from her or how to give it to me, so I am trying to give her very concrete instructions. Example: "More pear, more pear, more pear mommy..." Me: "more pear please"( in the tone of voice I'd like to hear) She repeats that and I remind her to ask once and then put her hands on her lap. Then I say in a fun way, "What song are you going to sing while you wait for mommy to wash the pear and cut it up?" Usually it's happy birthday. That gives her something to do and focus on other than asking again and again. Because we have done this many times now it has become a habit so it is simple and quick for me to just prompt/remind her. I am hoping I can teach her a few other tricks to help her delay gratification through games and self-distraction so that as she gets older she has them in her toolbox and can just use them automatically. For us the best way to avoid power struggles (other than not being too tired or hungry) is to help dd co-operate if that makes sense. So if I have said it once or twice and it's not working rather than continue the back and forth go to teaching or pretending (like a p.p. mentioned with ice cream. love that suggestion!) or some other strategy. But I think with the waiting thing they just don't know what to do other than keep asking. They need to stay connected to their desire rather than be distracted into something totally different. So pretending about it is a great idea. Hth! good luck!


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiddleRiverMama*
> 
> Pek64, I totally agree that babies and children and people of all ages should be respected. Perhaps rationale was not the best word choice. I think toddlers communicate in different ways than adults and we need to speak to them in a way that can be understood. Too often I see people giving their toddlers long complicated explanations for things that there is no way they can understand. Karp's philosophy is that we need to be ambassadors for our children and try to speak their language. His work is magnificent. Probably my shorthand explanation did not do it justice.


This still sounds demeaning to me. I believe that children are capable of understanding far more than most adults give them credit for being able to understand.

That said, it is quite possible for *anyone* to stop listening to a lengthy, rambling explanation. But shorter explanations are not needed because you are speaking with a toddler, but rather because most folks (adults included) prefer to get quickly to the point. At least in my experience.

There are many who need ambassadors. Some may be children, but my adult siblings relied on me for too many years to help them communicate with each other. Some people have good communication skills, while others need help.

Also, I still disagree with artificially creating times for the child to wait. Taking advantage of the real opportunities is still best.


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## LilyKay (Jun 28, 2011)

I'll admit up front that I've lost it a few times when DD does not quit. I know the theory, I just don't always have the stamina to go through with it. I aim for 80% of the time.

I'll only answer once or twice and try to formulate it "Yes I will -----, as soon as I'm done with -----". I avoid getting into an argument or discussion or to try to explain myself. If she starts crying or throwing a tantrum, I'll describe her feeling to her briefly "I see, you're angry (or sad) because you want ------". Sometimes she says "yes" and comes to hug me. She still does have to wait until I'm done. Sometimes that does not work and the tantrum continues. Then I lift her up, hug her until she stops crying. Repeat "you're angry (or sad) because you want ------" and put her down to wait until I'm done. The bottom line is she will wait until I'm done.

I've noticed that the more irritated I become, the more she tests how far she can go. It's just sometimes it is so hard to remain calm and collected...


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

That is me as well. I know what to do but I'm an introvert and I find the *constant* talking, both hers and mine, exhausting. Just occasionally I would like a response other than "no!", "why?" or "PLEASE!!!"


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katelove*
> 
> That is me as well. I know what to do but I'm an introvert and I find the *constant* talking, both hers and mine, exhausting. Just occasionally I would like a response other than "no!", "why?" or "PLEASE!!!"


Yes, yes, yes.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

After my daughter was born, we implemented the patience song-- it's basically a little ditty that we sing until mama can get what the toddler wants. It's basically serves the same purpose as whining, (making noise until you get what you want) but it's saved my nerves many, many times.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katelove*
> 
> That is me as well. I know what to do but I'm an introvert and I find the *constant* talking, both hers and mine, exhausting. Just occasionally I would like a response other than "no!", "why?" or "PLEASE!!!"


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmamalizzy*
> 
> Yes, yes, yes.


Thirded. A lot of my "parenting breakdowns" come from my brain being too full of their words.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *texmati*
> 
> After my daughter was born, we implemented the patience song-- it's basically a little ditty that we sing until mama can get what the toddler wants. It's basically serves the same purpose as whining, (making noise until you get what you want) but it's saved my nerves many, many times.


Please teach it to us!


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## element2012 (Jun 13, 2011)

This thread has made me realize how much trouble I am in as soon as DD learns the words "no" "why?" and "please!".... I need to know this patience song texmati!


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pek64*
> 
> Please teach it to us!


lol... it's made up... the song is "patience, patience, mama is gonna get <kids name> his ." totally made up tune. The rules are that 1) I agree that I am for sure going to do or get, what the kiddo wants (so no means no, and no song) and 2) we all sing the song until I"m done doing whatever I need to do. We started it when I needed to nurse the baby, or cook or pee etc. Honestly, the song helps me not forget what I promised I would do, and gives the kids confidence that I will follow through.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Thank you to this thread. I was inspired to ask my DD to sing me a waiting song, and she made up a great one that we've used several times since. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. Songs are like magic for this kid.


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmamalizzy*
> 
> Thank you to this thread. I was inspired to ask my DD to sing me a waiting song, and she made up a great one that we've used several times since. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. *Songs are like magic for this kid*.


My kids like songs, they also LOVE puppets. They will do anything a puppet asks of them. I really should use that tool more often.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Yay! We use songs quite a bit-- i just recently came across the term 'light motif'... so moms and composers have quite a bit in common!


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## tesiaz (Mar 24, 2011)

I am not sure I have had this exact experience as my daughter just seems to ask and be ok when I say I will get it but I have found working with Love and Logic specifically Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood to be especially helpful. Love and logic is all about giving choices to your child so they can learn about boundaries in a healthy way with natural consequences. In this case you could give your daughter the choice to wait until you have finished or get no clip. May seem harsh but it does empower them to make the choice. You just have to stick to the choice once it is made. You give them choices that they can make but that are already ok for you. Choices can be challenging to come up with. Get the book lots of good scenarios in there. Good luck.... PS I have yelled at my 2 year old too. When I have a chance to step back and breath even for a second it all is just a little easier.


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## Taximom5 (Jan 6, 2012)

This may seem harsh to some, but what I did worked well for my kids when I was ready to scream.

After the third or fourth time asking, I would calmly say,"I told you I would get it for you in a few minutes. I can't get it for you right now. If you ask me again, I will get mad, and I will put it on top of the refrigerator, and then I will not get it for you until you are quiet until the timer goes off."

That's the "I can't handle one more minute of this!!!!" scenario.

On days when I was smart enough to see it coming, I would head it off with, "here's the timer that I just set. You tell me when it goes off and then i'll get your butterfly clip for you."

As always, consistency is key.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

It happens to me sometimes too and my 2yo son is not nearly as persistent on a regular basis.

Here is what I would want somebody to say to ME: She knows you love her and snapping/yelling is sometimes going to happen to the vast majority of 2-year-olds on planet earth and very few of them have a mommy like you so move on and give extra hugs and you will both feel better. Get some bath salts next time you're at the store and have a soak.


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## pek64 (Apr 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *demeter888*
> 
> It happens to me sometimes too and my 2yo son is not nearly as persistent on a regular basis.
> Here is what I would want somebody to say to ME: She knows you love her and snapping/yelling is sometimes going to happen to the vast majority of 2-year-olds on planet earth and very few of them have a mommy like you so move on and give extra hugs and you will both feel better. Get some bath salts next time you're at the store and have a soak.


Good point. I was giving advice on what to do, not addressing the OP's frustration. Sorry, OP.


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## amandak (Oct 30, 2011)

Oh how I wish I had advice for you. Because if I had advice, it would mean that I knew how to keep my own patience during times like these. The best I ever come up with is remembering that it is a sign of good things -- persistence, determination, a willingness to speak one's mind, an ability to know one's desires. It doesn't make it any easier though.

But along with my two year old, I also have a five year old, so I can tell you from experience that it gets a bit easier when you can reason with them a little bit more.

In the meantime, hang in there and remember you are not alone.


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## Kaydove (Jul 29, 2010)

I know its not the same but when I was a nanny to a 3 year old and she would do the persistent asking, I must have had a pretty stern "I said no" face! It would get to the point where I was done hearing the same question over and over so I would look at her with my stern face and calmly but firmly say "I said no".

Once again, I know nannies are not the same as mommies.


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## fishywishy (Oct 19, 2010)

BTDT, actually on here to to find the answer to this SAME EXACT question. I have a 3 year old. It seemed like he was asking for things all.day.long. It was more along the lines of:

"I want x. Mom. Mom? Mommy?"

"I will get it for you when I finish changing little brother's diaper."

"I want x."

"Just a second."

"I want X!"

"I want X! Can I have X? I want X."

"Ok, I am done. Here is x."

"I DON'T WANT X!! I WANT YYYYYYYYYYYYY"

I practiced a lot of deep breathing today.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishywishy*
> 
> BTDT, actually on here to to find the answer to this SAME EXACT question. I have a 3 year old. It seemed like he was asking for things all.day.long. It was more along the lines of:
> "I want x. Mom. Mom? Mommy?"
> ...


OMG, THIS!!!! Hahahahahahaha


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## luckiest (Apr 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiddleRiverMama*
> 
> Harvey Karp has great patience building or patience "stretching" exercises in his book "Happiest Toddler on the Block." The key is to make them wait for short periods many times throughout the day, and then gradually increase the wait time while praising their patience. Example, "Mommy I want a cookie." "OK, I'll get it for you." Go get the cookie but don't give it to her right away. Then say: "Oh, hang on just a second honey, I have to do one thing quickly first." Turn your back for 15 seconds and pretend to be doing something. Then give her the cookie and praise her waiting. When she gets good at 15 second, extend to 30 seconds, and eventually to minutes and then several minute periods. His premise is that toddlers are simply not rationale, so calmly explaining to them that you are busy and will get it for them as soon as you can is like speaking another language.


I admittedly haven't read any of his work, but heavens, this seems like it would backfire so hard!! It seems like it teaches them that when something is requested, it's normal to do something else first and take more time than is needed to get it. Already, my 2.5 year old will respond, "Ok, in a second" and continue what he was doing like he didn't hear me when I ask him to do something. Annoying, until I realized that it's exactly what I say to him when he wants my attention but I'm not going to stop what I'm doing! I would lose my mind if he started saying, "Okay, let me just do XYZ first." Artificial wait times just seems...arbitrary and disingenuous. But again, I've obviously never tried it, so it could work like a charm.

Anyhow, something that works with my little one is giving him something to do while waiting, even something as simple as counting. I'll say, "I bet by the time we get to 20 I'll be done with dishes and we can _______," then I count with him. Or I'll say, "While I'm finishing this, why don't you do _______ (jump on the trampoline, help with what I'm doing, build me a block tower, etc), then I'll get your (requested item/activity)."


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *luckiest*
> 
> I admittedly haven't read any of his work, but heavens, this seems like it would backfire so hard!! It seems like it teaches them that when something is requested, it's normal to do something else first and take more time than is needed to get it. Already, my 2.5 year old will respond, "Ok, in a second" and continue what he was doing like he didn't hear me when I ask him to do something. Annoying, until I realized that it's exactly what I say to him when he wants my attention but I'm not going to stop what I'm doing! I would lose my mind if he started saying, "Okay, let me just do XYZ first." Artificial wait times just seems...arbitrary and disingenuous. But again, I've obviously never tried it, so it could work like a charm.
> 
> ...










We do these as well (count, sing songs, ask him for help, offer alternate waiting activity). Another one we employ is, I'll ask him lots of questions about whatever he is asking me to do ("ok, so you want to do this? who/what/when/where/why/tell me more...") so he knows I've heard him and care.


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## pickle18 (Jan 27, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fishywishy*
> 
> BTDT, actually on here to to find the answer to this SAME EXACT question. I have a 3 year old. It seemed like he was asking for things all.day.long. It was more along the lines of:
> 
> ...


Hahaha - this happens around here ALOT.







That's when I have to laugh...or cry.


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## schoonersam (Sep 23, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> Oh, this is SO my kid. I try so hard to do what Philomom suggests, but what I really want to do is take that g-damn hair clip and rip it into a million pieces so it can never be asked for again


LOL!!! Thanks for the comic relief. My (2y.o.)daughter's edging into this territory - seems to be regressive separation anxiety or something - and I'm already exhausted at the prospect of the "terrible 2's".


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## lightbulb (May 26, 2013)

I know this thread is "old", I just had to add this link to "The Patience Song", there actually is one!

She explains she doesn't know where it's from, Herbert the Snail or summat? Anyway. We sing it a lot. I just changed out "God" in the song with "mum" since we're not religious.






ETA, hah, I googled "Herbert the Snail" and here is the original song too:






We'll just stick with ours though, it's easier.


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