# 15 year old daughter want to be nude at home



## silchas

My 15 yo daughter asked us if she could be a nudist. We should have seen this coming. I'll try to give a little history, and keep it brief.

First she has two younger brothers. 8 and 12.

The summer before this last one. She was 13 almost 14, she wanted to swim in the pool without her swimsuit. We told her that would be okay as long as only our family was around. She would just wear a towel, go out swim, and play by the pool. I also noticed she started sleeping naked, and hanging out in her room naked.

This summer past, the first day we opened the pool, she came down stairs, and strolled through the house naked. She would even come inside for lunch naked, and I always have to ask her to cover up. Then she would just put on a long tee shirt.

The pool is closed for the winter. She's been very casual about being naked. She come downstairs every morning for breakfast without any clothes on. After school she does homework in her room...of course sans clothes. She makes no effort to cover up if she goes to the rest room, or come downstairs for a drink.

We had a talk to her about it the other night. She said she wants to be a nudist. She asked if we would allow her be nude at home, all the time.

My husband and I have been talking it over. He says we should let her, if it doesn't bother her, it doesn't bother him.
I'm about to give in, but there will be no turning back. I guess I'm just a bit uptight. 

So, I though I would post this question here, and see what other parent thought. Without have to bring it up to our friends and family. Thanks so much.

Jess.


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## OrmEmbar

That is a hard question! I think it would depend on a lot of things, including:

Why does she want to be nude at home?
Why now and not when she was younger?
How do her brothers feel about it?

Can there be a family agreement, since this would be outside of the norm for your surrounding community?

Does she have an understanding that her body is her own and beautiful just the way it is AND she lives in a society that is very judgmental and objectifies women? 

Idea: you might get some more thoughtful answers by posting in Talk Amongst Ourselves or Personal Growth. Share the above, but also write why you are uncomfortable and undecided. Exploring your thoughts and feelings about thisight help you help your daughter expire her own needs and how they mesh with the needs of the family.


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## kate22_22

OrmEmbar said:


> That is a hard question! I think it would depend on a lot of things, including:
> 
> Why does she want to be nude at home?
> Why now and not when she was younger?
> How do her brothers feel about it?
> 
> Can there be a family agreement, since this would be outside of the norm for your surrounding community?
> 
> Does she have an understanding that her body is her own and beautiful just the way it is AND she lives in a society that is very judgmental and objectifies women?
> 
> Idea: you might get some more thoughtful answers by posting in Talk Amongst Ourselves or Personal Growth. Share the above, but also write why you are uncomfortable and undecided. Exploring your thoughts and feelings about thisight help you help your daughter expire her own needs and how they mesh with the needs of the family.


I just think this is silly. U got boys at home. Think about them too


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## heyxxmcfly

kate22_22 said:


> I just think this is silly. U got boys at home. Think about them too


Boys should be taught that women aren't sexual objects. That's like saying "you have boys at home so dont breast feed because breasts are well... boobs."


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## kblackstone444

heyxxmcfly said:


> Boys should be taught that women aren't sexual objects. That's like saying "you have boys at home so dont breast feed because breasts are well... boobs."


Boys should be taught that women aren't sexual objects, yes, but the daughter should also be taught that there's a time and place for everything and not everybody will be comfortable with somebody's nudity, nor is it, in many places and situations, socially acceptable to be in the nude. One person's comfort level (being nude) shouldn't trump another person's comfort level (not knowing where to look when a nude person's all in their face). Perhaps she can be in her room nude, but cover up out of respect for certain family members feelings when she comes out of her room? And what about company, or if you need to call a repairman to the house, or if the younger brothers want to invite friends over? Not only could that be uncomfortable, or even dangerous, but some people might even press charges if a teenage girl is walking around "showing" her body parts to young boys.

I do agree, that it somewhat weird for her Dad to be all for his teenage daughter walking around naked. I'd be very careful on that one, for CPS reasons.


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## Cathlyn

Hmm I would talk to her why she wants to be nude.
I wouldn't be that concerned about your husband who is ok with her being nude. He just wants to give her the freedom of choice I think.


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## contactmaya

Its natural to be nude. I dont see what the cps has to do with it. I think for reasons of hygiene, she should wear underwear, or some sort of towel for when she sits down. This is what i do, i am also mostly half naked at home.

As for her brothers, all the better for them that they learn to be comfortable around the natural human female body.

Growing up, we had a babysitter, that for some reason never wore a shirt. At first i felt embarrassed, but quickly got used to it, until i didnt notice it. 

Once she opened the door to a neighbor, forgetting to cover herself, it was funny to see the shocked expression of the neighbor. Our babysitter quickly grabbed a tea towel and covered herself up, with an apologetic laugh.


I dont think that being comfortable around naked people is a sign that you are a pervert or sexually abusing your daughter (as far as your husband is concerned).

I dont think you are uptight for feeling a bit uncomfortable at first. I think you will get used to it with time.

I dont see why she cant be naked in her own home. Let her be comfortable in her own body, ....and please people, stop bringing the cps into it....


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## contactmaya

kate22_22 said:


> *I just think this is silly*. U got boys at home. Think about them too


Is it silly because of the boys at home? The boys were mentioned as a consideration in the post.

Is it silly because it requires a bit of thought, and sensitivity, maybe some exploration and experimentation of something different? Something you have never heard of, something outside of the realm of complete mediocrity?


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## rightkindofme

I have grown up in nudist environments. I wouldn't care or have a problem with it. If my boys didn't want to look at their sister naked I would say the exact same words I say to men who "don't want to see breastfeeding". I say, "Then don't look. It isn't being done for your benefit anyway."


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## sillysapling

The only reason there'd be a problem is if the two brothers have a problem- and then I'd talk to them and try to work something out. They shouldn't find human bodies shameful, and they shouldn't see their own sister's body as a sex object (or any girl's for that matter). If no other compromise is acceptable, there's no reason she couldn't be in her underwear- no different than walking around in a bathing suit.

There's a huge difference between walking down the street naked (which is, I believe, illegal and I wouldn't allow kids to do) and being in your own house naked. That's her home, she should be comfortable there. There are a lot of things we do in our homes that we wouldn't do in public. 
There are some concerns about privacy- people possibly being able to see her through the window. But if you're okay with her being naked in your backyard, then that may not be an issue and it's solved by closing the blinds.


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## Shann

I don't understand why this is a problem. This has been a common practice around my household for years, and we have 2 boys and a girl as well. LET HER GO NAKED IF SHE WISHES!


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## cynthia mosher

One post removed for name calling. Another for criticizing level of English competency. Please share opinions respectfully without attacking.


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## homeschoolingmama

I would be uncomfortable with it and that is ok. Everyone has different comfort levels in their home. I think everyone in the house should be ok with it before it happens. That shows respect for others.
I think CPS should be considered in this discussion. Not because they should be called but because they Could be called. There are a lot of outside people who wouldn't think this is ok and call CPS. There is that reality. 
I think it is a personal choice that only that family can make. The big thing is respect for others. Personally, I think it wise if you asked her to wear clothing when people came over to protect yourselves and for respect to the person coming over.


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## contactmaya

homeschoolingmama said:


> I would be uncomfortable with it and that is ok. Everyone has different comfort levels in their home. I think everyone in the house should be ok with it before it happens. That shows respect for others.
> I think CPS should be considered in this discussion. Not because they should be called but because they Could be called. There are a lot of outside people who wouldn't think this is ok and call CPS. There is that reality.
> I think it is a personal choice that only that family can make. The big thing is respect for others. Personally, I think it wise if you asked her to wear clothing when people came over to protect yourselves and for respect to the person coming over.


I agree that you should be clothed when answering the door. 
I dont think the cps should enter the equation. Do you mean the daughter should refrain from telling her friends she is a nudist in her home for fear they will call the cps?
Just dont answer the door to the cps. This is supposed to be a democracy, not a police state.


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## homeschoolingmama

I think it should be thought about. Yes, they could be called on. They may say that it is abuse to have a 15 year old girl walking around naked in front of her impressionable brothers. They could turn it sexual in their minds with the daughter and the father. It doesn't make it right but it does make it a reality. I don't think this should make her decision but I do think it should be considered. 
Maybe things are different in the states than Canada. CAS can get involved for eating habits, homeschooling, poor dental hygiene... It isn't common but it does happen. There is that possibility.


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## sillysapling

> I would be uncomfortable with it and that is ok. Everyone has different comfort levels in their home. I think everyone in the house should be ok with it before it happens. That shows respect for others.


I agree the other kids should be comfortable with it, but part of parenting is putting your kid's wellbeing before your own comfort. There's nothing wrong with nudity. Being able to be comfortable in your own skin and not feeling your body is shameful and something to be hidden even in the privacy of your home is valuable. Obviously no one should be forced to be naked, but there are benefits to allowing her to be nude and risks of forcing her not to be. Child wellbeing trumps parental comfort.


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## contactmaya

homeschoolingmama said:


> I think it should be thought about. Yes, they could be called on. They may say that it is abuse to have a 15 year old girl walking around naked in front of her impressionable brothers. They could turn it sexual in their minds with the daughter and the father. It doesn't make it right but it does make it a reality. I don't think this should make her decision but I do think it should be considered.
> Maybe things are different in the states than Canada. CAS can get involved for eating habits, homeschooling, poor dental hygiene... It isn't common but it does happen. There is that possibility.


I understand what you are saying. But when you say 'thought about', how do those thoughts translate into action? Do they tell their daughter-dont tell anyone.... do they make it sound like she needs to keep it a secret?

I think if that is the case, then someone needs to step in, and say, no, a child choosing to be nude does not equate to abuse, and its none of the business of the cps or anyone else.

Just dont open the door to the cps if you have a nosy somebody calling for no good reason. Any person could call for any reason.

And being nude is the natural state of things, for this reason, i believe, like other posters that the 15yo is making a reasonable, albiet unusual by our cultural standards, request.


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## homeschoolingmama

Actually I believe that everyone's comfort in the home should be considered. Don't really have much else to say. We just disagree.


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## moominmamma

sillysapling said:


> Child wellbeing trumps parental comfort.


Not commenting specifically on the nudity issue, just more generally. I agree with you if we're talking about a baby or a toddler. I think, however, that as kids move towards adulthood -- and it's a gradual spectrum that varies with the maturity of the child -- there's less of a clear case for their comfort trumping that of the adults in the home. I think that one of the main jobs of parents is to teach their kids that other people's feelings matter too. Not by trumping their kids back: I don't think anyone trumping anyone is really the model for interpersonal conflict. Empathy and mature relationships take root when people choose to work out compromises and mutually agreeable alternatives, to participate in a bit of given and take, to seek to understand and take the perspective of others. It's not a question of whose needs take precedence but of having an honest think about whose behaviours are intruding most upon the feelings and desires of others, what is most necessary and most desired by whom and why, where the flexibility is and where more might be gained, the feelings fuelling the desires and so on.

Miranda


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## lauren

Has anyone else noticed that the person who started the thread has not been back?


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## moominmamma

Oh yeah, I noticed. I didn't respond initially, because I was pretty sure it was one of *those* posts. But the discussion that evolved was interesting.

Miranda


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## contactmaya

homeschoolingmama said:


> Actually I believe that everyone's comfort in the home should be considered. Don't really have much else to say. We just disagree.


We agree that everyone's comfort in the home should be considered. I think that point was covered and is not relevant to the issue of the cps you raised.

We dont agree that the cps should be involved, or that in principle, should be considered, if it means bringing shame or secrecy into the issue. Im still not sure what you meant by 'thought about", since you didnt expand on that point.


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## homeschoolingmama

Thought about means considered. I feel it should be considered. I responded to the probably not real OP. This is my opinion and you have a different one. That is ok. I don't feel like debating the way I feel on it. It is good to get different points of view. Forums are great for that.

ETA: And if I really wanted to debate this topic, I would have told everyone what I really thought of this discussion. lol I chose to speak respectfully and just discuss what I would think about and consider.


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## silchas

Thanks for all your replies. Sorry I have not gotten back here sooner, but I've been really busy.

The update is that we've decided to allow her to be a nudist. We told her on Nov. 1st. It's been almost a month now, and honestly it already has become the norm. I almost don't notice, except for being being on top of making sure the curtains are drawn in the evening. I'm a little envious of how comfortable she is naked. I've tried going nude a couple of times in the last few weeks, and I'm just too self conscious. The boys show no interest in nudity, of course, we'd let them if they wanted.

The only issue is what to do when company comes over. We don't want any mixed messages, to either her or the boys. This issue is at the fore front, because we're having Thanksgiving dinner at our house. We told her that she needs to wear a nice outfit for dinner, and she agreed that it would be inappropriate to be naked when guests arrive, and at the dinner table. We comprimised by telling her that after dinner, when every one is either watching football or playing in the rec room, she is welcome to take off her clothes. Between my husband and I we have a huge family, so it's been a lot of work to them what to expect. We've told them all that basically, we now have a "clothing optional" home, although, Sara is the only one who takes advantage. They've all been unbelievably supportive and open minded. 

We still need to talk to other people, like the parents of her brothers friends. The experience with our family is encouraging though, and so are most of the opinions here. As far as CPS is concerned, we talked to our lawer, and there are no laws against family members being nude in the home. Where her friends, and most of all her brothers friends are concerned, we need to be careful. We know Sara has been naked in front of her friends and her brothers friends around the pool already. We never allowed it, but she would just jump in the pool naked out of habit. I told her many times to put on a swimsuit because there we're young boys present. She's never been shy about nudity around her own friends, she's always naked when they're in her room, or the rec room. I don't see that being a problem though.

Concerns about my husband are silly, although I understand your concern. He's a very laid back, open minded guy. I laugh though, when I see him turning the thermostat down in the evening. Passive aggressive? Yes, but funny. 

Thanks, Jess


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## blessedwithboys

:eyesroll


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## contactmaya

I think she is a serious poster, raising an interesting question, Am i being naive? Other than that, i couldnt agree more about bringing back the old mdc...


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## Daddy222

Nothing wrong with being naked and anybody who thinks differently is only brainwashed by society/parents/peers etc. in thinking there is. 
In our house, clothing is optional (when it is only family at home of course). 
Why should we be afraid to see our own family naked?


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## Robert F

silchas said:


> My 15 yo daughter asked us if she could be a nudist. We should have seen this coming. I'll try to give a little history, and keep it brief.
> 
> First she has two younger brothers. 8 and 12.
> 
> The summer before this last one. She was 13 almost 14, she wanted to swim in the pool without her swimsuit. We told her that would be okay as long as only our family was around. She would just wear a towel, go out swim, and play by the pool. I also noticed she started sleeping naked, and hanging out in her room naked.
> 
> This summer past, the first day we opened the pool, she came down stairs, and strolled through the house naked. She would even come inside for lunch naked, and I always have to ask her to cover up. Then she would just put on a long tee shirt.
> 
> The pool is closed for the winter. She's been very casual about being naked. She come downstairs every morning for breakfast without any clothes on. After school she does homework in her room...of course sans clothes. She makes no effort to cover up if she goes to the rest room, or come downstairs for a drink.
> 
> We had a talk to her about it the other night. She said she wants to be a nudist. She asked if we would allow her be nude at home, all the time.
> 
> My husband and I have been talking it over. He says we should let her, if it doesn't bother her, it doesn't bother him.
> I'm about to give in, but there will be no turning back. I guess I'm just a bit uptight.
> 
> So, I though I would post this question here, and see what other parent thought. Without have to bring it up to our friends and family. Thanks so much.
> 
> Jess.


First and formost, educate yourself as much as you can about this subject. Then talk to your daughter about it. Have a family discussion. Let her know, as with everything else, there is a time and a place for nudity. If it's only family, I don't see a problem. Sounds like her brothers have already seen her nude. However, as someone brought up earlier, when her brothers bring friends over, she should cover up. For that matter, whenever anybody else comes over, she should cover up. Consider going to a nudist resort. There are many family friendly places.

Sounds like you won't be able to stop her, but maybe you can support her, within limits of the home.


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## Robert F

silchas said:


> Thanks for all your replies. Sorry I have not gotten back here sooner, but I've been really busy.
> 
> The update is that we've decided to allow her to be a nudist. We told her on Nov. 1st. It's been almost a month now, and honestly it already has become the norm. I almost don't notice, except for being being on top of making sure the curtains are drawn in the evening. I'm a little envious of how comfortable she is naked. I've tried going nude a couple of times in the last few weeks, and I'm just too self conscious. The boys show no interest in nudity, of course, we'd let them if they wanted.
> 
> The only issue is what to do when company comes over. We don't want any mixed messages, to either her or the boys. This issue is at the fore front, because we're having Thanksgiving dinner at our house. We told her that she needs to wear a nice outfit for dinner, and she agreed that it would be inappropriate to be naked when guests arrive, and at the dinner table. We comprimised by telling her that after dinner, when every one is either watching football or playing in the rec room, she is welcome to take off her clothes. Between my husband and I we have a huge family, so it's been a lot of work to them what to expect. We've told them all that basically, we now have a "clothing optional" home, although, Sara is the only one who takes advantage. They've all been unbelievably supportive and open minded.
> 
> We still need to talk to other people, like the parents of her brothers friends. The experience with our family is encouraging though, and so are most of the opinions here. As far as CPS is concerned, we talked to our lawer, and there are no laws against family members being nude in the home. Where her friends, and most of all her brothers friends are concerned, we need to be careful. We know Sara has been naked in front of her friends and her brothers friends around the pool already. We never allowed it, but she would just jump in the pool naked out of habit. I told her many times to put on a swimsuit because there we're young boys present. She's never been shy about nudity around her own friends, she's always naked when they're in her room, or the rec room. I don't see that being a problem though.
> 
> Concerns about my husband are silly, although I understand your concern. He's a very laid back, open minded guy. I laugh though, when I see him turning the thermostat down in the evening. Passive aggressive? Yes, but funny.
> 
> Thanks, Jess


sounds like you have a handle on the situation. Most of the time anyway. I forgot to mention last time that my family and I are nudists. We do cover up when other people are over, or when we go out. But our house is clothing optional, and we spend most of our indoor time sans clothing. Outside chores are done with clothing on of course. We do respect the views of the society we life in. We have one boy, 15, and one girl, 12.

As for your own issues, try a clothing optional resort for a family vacation. Each of you can wear as much, or as little, clothing as you wish. I think you will become as comfortable with your own body, as she is with hers, over enough time.

I still think you should be careful with non family guests. Other people are still brainwashed by society. We seem to be comfortable with violence, but not nudity, just look and mass media, tv and video games.

We would be better off if social, nin sexual, nudity was accepted, and maas violence was not.


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## MangaX

*I wonder ...*

I think it's great that you've been so open to the lifestyle that you're daughter so desperately wanted; however, I can't help but wonder if this acceptance would have been treated differently had it been one of your sons instead.

Just curious as to your thoughts on this.


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## Labertine

It's hard for me to believe the level of acceptance in this thread. Maybe I'm old school but she should absolutely not be allowed to walk around naked in front of her father and younger brothers.

If it was just Mom and daughter, OK maybe. But it's not.

You got us talking OP. Bravo.


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## contactmaya

I think nudism is a valid philosophical outlook and practice. Traditional societies dress scantily and are always in front of their relatives. It does not necessarily lead to incest.


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## SimonaSimo

Hi Jess, first, nice to meet you. I read about Sara, I think a solution can be if you more involve her in the domestic activity but always making sure that you are together, like for example cooking or cleaning house, because if she is alone she will do this regardless of the fact of being naked. Instead I think that being in close contact with you she might understand the need to dressed up. I also ask you if your family is often gathered together, such as at lunch and dinner, or maybe watching TV and if like this, how she acts? There are grand parents? What they think about this? Finally I'd like also to ask you if in her school there is a strictly dress code of if she can freely choose what to wear?
Simona


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## chaosforkissesblog

I would not say that we are nudest at all, but we all tend to strip as soon as we get home and sleep naked. However, I never let my kids have clothes off around people that don't live in our home(ie mom, dad, and siblings). It is natural for people to look at another's body sexually and it invites inappropriate opportunities. The way she is acting about it makes me think this is more about exploring sexuality than about wanting to be more natural. I would be cautious in this situation because she has not grown up in a home with this being the norm. I would have many, many conversations about when and why she should be wearing clothes (which it sounds like you have done a few times). If it is her exploring her sexuality (which is healthy), I would want to put limits on it and explain those limits for her own safety. As long as she is respecting your concerns, she is probably learning a lot about herself and feeling great about being supported by her parents! http://chaosforkisses.blogspot.com/2015/03/why-your-child-probably-isnt-at-risk-as.html


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## contactmaya

chaosforkissesblog said:


> I would not say that we are nudest at all, but we all tend to strip as soon as we get home and sleep naked. However, I never let my kids have clothes off around people that don't live in our home(ie mom, dad, and siblings). It is natural for people to look at another's body sexually and it invites inappropriate opportunities.
> *
> The way she is acting about it makes me think this is more about exploring sexuality than about wanting to be more natural*.
> 
> .....


The bolded is something entirely in your imagination. There is no evidence at all that this is the case. You may confuse nudism with sex, but that doesnt meant they are the same thing. I actually find what you say offensive.


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## ashleyv8

@silchas can you give me a 1 year update in detail? pretty much of how life is with a clothing optional home, my kid is wanting to be nude at home anytime as well and im trying to deal with it


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## ashleyv8

Like im just wondering how it is, do you let her go nude all day or just for meals? where does she sit and move? And also what do you do when visitors come? Idk if my daughters siblings would care or not


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## oldsmom

Nope. I am going to be that lone voice and say that I think it's a bad idea. If your daughter wants to be nude in her room, that is fine. But outside of that, I think it's absurd.

My husband likes to not wear clothes when it's just the two of us, but he would never do so around the kids. Our oldest is also prone toward nudity, but we were adamant it be in her room only, and only when she is alone. Frankly, it's weird and a bit rude to push your nudity onto others. I don't want to see it. Most people don't. 

These days it's trendy to not oppress the individual, but when that individual freedom ends up making others have to deal with weirdness, it's time to reign it in. 

When you daughter gets older, what kind of life do you want for her? For us, we wanted our kids to have the skills and knowledge to fit into mainstream society. It's okay to be different, but it's still important to know what is expected and be comfortable dealing with it. For us, the household is a place to teach those skills. We expect the kids to act at home like they would act in society. No swearing. Be respectful. Wear clothes...


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## blessedwithboys

oldsmom said:


> These days it's trendy to not oppress the individual, but when that individual freedom ends up making others have to deal with weirdness, it's time to reign it in...


Thank you for this desperately needed truth bomb!


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## contactmaya

We should bring back more oppression.


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## oldsmom

contactmaya said:


> We should bring back more oppression.


I suspect that was a tongue in cheek response, but when it comes to raising kids, I am squarely in the camp that sometimes it's a parent's job to oppress a kid. Until the age of 25, the human brain has still not fully developed complex decision making skills. So sometimes the parent has to be the voice of sanity. And that can be oppressing - especially to teen-agers. 
:wink:
I am not saying to be intolerant, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to occasionally run around in your birthday suit. But there is a time and place for that.

My oldest daughter used to be a notorious nudist whenever she could get away with it. We didn't say it was wrong. We just told her to be naked on her own time.


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## farmermomma

My kids have to deal with weirdness every day. They have me as mom!


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## ashleyv8

Dont foget to give us that 1 year update! @silchas


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## moominmamma

My suspicion has always been that there was a trolling element to this thread. The original poster only ever contributed to this one thread, and hasn't returned to MDC since a week after it was posted. I wouldn't hold my breath for an update. 

miranda


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## Pookietooth

oldsmom said:


> Nope. I am going to be that lone voice and say that I think it's a bad idea. If your daughter
> wants to be nude in her room, that is fine. But outside of that, I think it's absurd.
> 
> My husband likes to not wear clothes when it's just the two of us, but he would never do so around the kids. Our oldest is also prone toward nudity, but we were adamant it be in her room only, and only when she is alone. Frankly, it's weird and a bit rude to push your nudity onto others. I don't want to see it. Most people don't.
> 
> These days it's trendy to not oppress the individual, but when that individual freedom ends up making others have to deal with weirdness, it's time to reign it in.
> 
> When you daughter gets older, what kind of life do you want for her? For us, we wanted our kids to have the skills and knowledge to fit into mainstream society. It's okay to be different, but it's still important to know what is expected and be comfortable dealing with it. For us, the household is a place to teach those skills. We expect the kids to act at home like they would act in society. No swearing. Be respectful. Wear clothes...


Really? No swearing? At all? Does that mean mom and dad don't swear? Do you really think a 15 year old is so stupid that they think that being allowed to go nude at home means that they can go nude anywhere, or that forcing them to fit your version of "normal" will make them not weird. If you are uncomfortable with nudity in your home, own it, don't try to pass it off as trying to teach social rules.


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## moominmamma

Pookietooth said:


> If you are uncomfortable with nudity in your home, own it, don't try to pass it off as trying to teach social rules.


I think it's a more nuanced than being a matter of teaching "social rules." A respectful well-socialized person, unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, avoids behaving in ways that make others uncomfortable or inconvenience them. Empathy means taking the subtleties of others' experiences into account, and respectfully weighing our own words and actions against those.

There are plenty of low-level inconveniences and concerns that could result from a teen's nudity, some of which have been raised up-thread. For example, it's reasonably likely that a younger sibling, if his school friends found out, would be teased and bullied about his sister's habits of nudity.

A teen has a right to be nude in her own home, just as I have the right to free speech. Rights are absolute. But whether it is good, kind, empathetic and respectful to exercise those rights fully in ways that have a negative impact on others, that's not a black and white issue. To me it really comes down to whether the teen's reasons for wanting to be nude are compelling enough to outweigh any ongoing inconvenience or discomfort produced in others around them.

Miranda


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## Pookietooth

moominmamma said:


> I think it's a more nuanced than being a matter of teaching "social rules." A respectful well-socialized person, unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, avoids behaving in ways that make others uncomfortable or inconvenience them. Empathy means taking the subtleties of others' experiences into account, and respectfully weighing our own words and actions against those.
> 
> There are plenty of low-level inconveniences and concerns that could result from a teen's nudity, some of which have been raised up-thread. For example, it's reasonably likely that a younger sibling, if his school friends found out, would be teased and bullied about his sister's habits of nudity.
> 
> A teen has a right to be nude in her own home, just as I have the right to free speech. Rights are absolute. But whether it is good, kind, empathetic and respectful to exercise those rights fully in ways that have a negative impact on others, that's not a black and white issue. To me it really comes down to whether the teen's reasons for wanting to be nude are compelling enough to outweigh any ongoing inconvenience or discomfort produced in others around them.
> 
> Miranda


Except that she didn't mention any of that in her post, she merely spoke as if there is a set list of "normal" behaviors that must be prescribed by the parent, nothing about being sensitive to the feelings of others. That my point.


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## moominmamma

"Be respectful" covers a lot of ground.

Miranda


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## oldsmom

Pookietooth said:


> Really? No swearing? At all? Does that mean mom and dad don't swear? Do you really think a 15 year old is so stupid that they think that being allowed to go nude at home means that they can go nude anywhere, or that forcing them to fit your version of "normal" will make them not weird. If you are uncomfortable with nudity in your home, own it, don't try to pass it off as trying to teach social rules.


Really. No swearing at all. And we refrain as well.

I am in a management role in an engineering company, and 99% of the time I don't swear at work. Why? It's unprofessional. And that's what I teach my kids. If the kids want to swear, we tell them don't do it home. We avoid it because it's a bad habit, and we teach the kids the same.

It affects your ability to succeed at life. Any time you choose to ignore societal norms (like wearing clothing), or be undisciplined in your choices, you are making trade-offs with your how your life path will go. Sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes it's not. But in our home, we won't cater to absurdity or the weird post-modern acceptance of bizarre hedonism. It's not healthy.


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## blessedwithboys

oldsmom said:


> in our home, we won't cater to absurdity or the weird post-modern acceptance of bizarre hedonism. It's not healthy.


:clap :yeah :clap


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## Pookietooth

moominmamma said:


> "Be respectful" covers a lot of ground.
> 
> Miranda


It could also be used to tell someone not to breastfeed in public, for example, or to wear only certain clothing styles ("modest") to respect those with more conservative beliefs. How far does one take it? On the other hand, calling people who swear or who go nude behind closed doors "weird" is not really respectful, is it? It's literally using a judgmental word to describe behavior without attempting to understand that there may be special needs under neath it.


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## Pookietooth

oldsmom said:


> Really. No swearing at all. And we refrain as well.
> 
> I am in a management role in an engineering company, and 99% of the time I don't swear at work. Why? It's unprofessional. And that's what I teach my kids. If the kids want to swear, we tell them don't do it home. We avoid it because it's a bad habit, and we teach the kids the same.
> 
> It affects your ability to succeed at life. Any time you choose to ignore societal norms (like wearing clothing), or be undisciplined in your choices, you are making trade-offs with your how your life path will go. Sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes it's not. But in our home, we won't cater to absurdity or the weird post-modern acceptance of bizarre hedonism. It's not healthy.


It seems to me that your choice to impose your own brand of values is rather arbitrary and not exactly healthy either, in that you are expecting all your family members to unconditionally defer to your judgment and think the way you think, rather than allowing them to evaluate things themselves. This often leads to rebellion, especially in teens, and can result in young adults who have been unable to make their own choices suddenly doing the opposite of what their parents wanted, or just following the crowd they find themselves among. I realize you mean well, and you really do believe that your values are shared by the majority (and therefore, more valid than those of others), but once your children are out in the world, what will they think when they find out that the values you consider universal are not actually that universal? Swearing may be "unprofessional" in some jobs, but part of the way you relate in others (sports, for example, or construction or any other number of blue collar jobs); regardless, the home is not the workplace, and many rules that apply to workplaces, such as dress codes, do not apply to the home. We come home, get into our comfortable clothes, and relax. Why should work place rules follow everyone, especially since your workplace is only one type (my husband's company, a software company, does not have a dress code and swearing is fairly common, even up to the CEOs).


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## Sharlla

moominmamma said:


> My suspicion has always been that there was a trolling element to this thread. The original poster only ever contributed to this one thread, and hasn't returned to MDC since a week after it was posted. I wouldn't hold my breath for an update.
> 
> miranda


sounds about right. As for WWID if my child wanted to be nude, they would only be allowed to do it in their own room and bathroom, the common areas they would need to at least be robed. just because one person wants something doesn't mean that their desire trumps everyone else's comfort.


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## Pookietooth

Sharlla said:


> sounds about right. As for WWID if my child wanted to be nude, they would only be allowed to do it in their own room and bathroom, the common areas they would need to at least be robed. just because one person wants something doesn't mean that their desire trumps everyone else's comfort.


Does this have a minimum age? Does it include toddlers?

As for swearing (not that you mentioned it, but another person did), I found this interesting:
http://www.timjlawrence.com/blog/2015/12/7/why-swearing-is-important

Also, this: 
http://www.scarymommy.com/9-rules-of-swearing-for-my-children/


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## blessedwithboys

Pookietooth said:


> It could also be used to tell someone not to breastfeed in public, for example, or to wear only certain clothing styles ("modest") to respect those with more conservative beliefs. How far does one take it?


Not the same. Babies have a need to eat. No one has a need to be naked in public.


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## Pookietooth

blessedwithboys said:


> Not the same. Babies have a need to eat. No one has a need to be naked in public.


Except that she didn't qualify it that way with need vs. desire. She only stated that others' discomfort was the only criteria of determining whether it's appropriate or not, and that she wants to teach social rules by recreating them as she perceives them to be in society in her own home. As in, if you wouldn't walk around on the street naked, you can't do it at home. PLENTY of people have a problem with public breastfeeding, and thus you could apply the same strict universal rule to that. She also spoke about it not as in "we need to be sensitive to others' feelings" but instead "this is how you're supposed to act out in the world and therefore you must act that same way all the time at home."


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## Sharlla

Pookietooth said:


> Does this have a minimum age? Does it include toddlers?
> 
> ]


about age 3 is when we start having kids have their bottoms covered


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## Pookietooth

Sharlla said:


> about age 3 is when we start having kids have their bottoms covered


Is that universal, regardless of the heat? Must bathroom doors always be closed, then? Children at 3 are expected to bath and toilet alone?


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## Sharlla

Pookietooth said:


> Is that universal, regardless of the heat? Must bathroom doors always be closed, then?


are you being serious?


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## heyxxmcfly

Pookietooth said:


> Is that universal, regardless of the heat? Must bathroom doors always be closed, then?


I agree with Sharlla, 3yo is old enough to keep something over their bottoms. Heat shouldn't matter because you can be just as cool and comfy in under pants or a pull up as they could be in the nude. 
Also why should it matter if the bathroom door is open or closed? Does your family make it a habit to keep it open regardless of what actions they're taking IN the bathroom, their state of undress, or the company in the house? That seems slightly awkward to me. I don't think I'd visit friends is they were pooping with the door open or other type of PERSONAL functions while they have guests over.

Just my two cents.


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## Pookietooth

heyxxmcfly said:


> I agree with Sharlla, 3yo is old enough to keep something over their bottoms. Heat shouldn't matter because you can be just as cool and comfy in under pants or a pull up as they could be in the nude.
> Also why should it matter if the bathroom door is open or closed? Does your family make it a habit to keep it open regardless of what actions they're taking IN the bathroom, their state of undress, or the company in the house? That seems slightly awkward to me. I don't think I'd visit friends is they were pooping with the door open or other type of PERSONAL functions while they have guests over.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Friends aren't family. I never actually said what we do in our house, I was just surprised. My children have sensory issues, and as such, they cannot stand underwear, so please don't assume everyone can easily be comfortable in underpants. My point was, I don't think many 3 year olds are ready to bathe, dress, and toilet alone yet, so it seems a bit young for them to always be covered even just around family. While many are saying total nudity is extreme, I think expecting a 3 year old to always be covered and take care of their bathroom needs alone is a bit extreme, but then all children develop differently. Also, it probably does depend on the region - in some states, such as Florida, family nudity is illegal, but it's more well-tolerated on the West Coast.


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## Pookietooth

Sharlla said:


> are you being serious?


You stated that bottoms must be covered at 3, implying at that age you don't want to see their bottoms (which could easily mean they must bathe, toilet, and dress alone so nobody else has to see it).


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## blessedwithboys

Pookietooth said:


> in some states, such as Florida, family nudity is illegal, but it's more well-tolerated on the West Coast.


Private nudity is not illegal in Florida. I live near Playalinda Beach, I'm familiar with the issue. In fact, we can be nude outside, on our own private property, as long as neighbors cannot see us. And no lewd intent, toward children or adults, of course.

Family nudity is not expressly illegal.

That said, my sons and I no longer spend time together unclothed. It would just be weird for us. One is a grown man and the other will be soon. Long gone are the days of showering with a toddler just to keep him from doing something horrible while unsupervised for a whole 10 minutes.


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## Pookietooth

blessedwithboys said:


> Private nudity is not illegal in Florida. I live near Playalinda Beach, I'm familiar with the issue. In fact, we can be nude outside, on our own private property, as long as neighbors cannot see us. And no lewd intent, toward children or adults, of course.
> 
> Family nudity is not expressly illegal.
> 
> That said, my sons and I no longer spend time together unclothed. It would just be weird for us. One is a grown man and the other will be soon. Long gone are the days of showering with a toddler just to keep him from doing something horrible while unsupervised for a whole 10 minutes.


I have heard differently. I have heard that parents are not allowed to be nude in front of their own children. I haven't heard about what the rules are in reverse, though. Maybe it's not written specifically that way, but a friend in Florida said she could get in trouble if her children saw her nude and anyone outside the family found out.


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## Sharlla

Pookietooth said:


> You stated that bottoms must be covered at 3, implying at that age you don't want to see their bottoms (which could easily mean they must bathe, toilet, and dress alone so nobody else has to see it).


i meant like in common areas of the house. we have a 17 year old and 10 year old of the opposite sex in the house and i don't think having older girls walk around and vice versa is appropriate. parents can assist children who are too young to dress and bathe alone behind closed doors. if they are out of the bathroom they need to have on at least underwear


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## contactmaya

As far as nudity is concerned, it depends on what you are used to, and the attitude towards nudity you grew up with. I cant imagine imposing a rule that my 3yo's bottom be covered. To me that is just ludicrous. However, our 3yo mostly chooses to dress herself, and is very particular that it be pink, purple and sparkly. A year ago, she was almost always naked. Either way, no big deal. 

When it gets too hot here, (ie excessive indoor heating), we are mostly scantily clad, older boys, myself and 3yo included. We are comfortable with that, because that is what we are used to. 

There are enough problems in this world, without making the naked human body yet another one. Naked, or clothed, its not a problem in our home.


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## blessedwithboys

Pookietooth said:


> I have heard differently. I have heard that parents are not allowed to be nude in front of their own children. I haven't heard about what the rules are in reverse, though. Maybe it's not written specifically that way, but a friend in Florida said she could get in trouble if her children saw her nude and anyone outside the family found out.


Probably what your friend meant is that she was afraid of being reported to DCF. DCF can pull kids for something is not explicitly illegal if they think it endangers the children. DCF is pretty good at ruining people's lives. That doesn't change the fact that there is no law in Florida that says family members of different generations can't be nude together in the home.



contactmaya said:


> As far as nudity is concerned, it depends on what you are used to, and the attitude towards nudity you grew up with. I cant imagine imposing a rule that my 3yo's bottom be covered. To me that is just ludicrous. However, our 3yo mostly chooses to dress herself, and is very particular that it be pink, purple and sparkly. A year ago, she was almost always naked. Either way, no big deal.
> 
> When it gets too hot here, (ie excessive indoor heating), we are mostly scantily clad, older boys, myself and 3yo included. We are comfortable with that, because that is what we are used to.
> 
> There are enough problems in this world, without making the naked human body yet another one. Naked, or clothed, its not a problem in our home.


Yes, exactly! The other day my teen barged into my room and almost but not quite caught me walking out of the en suite completely naked. No big deal. We laughed about it and I reminded him that the lock was broken and when he meets resistance opening the door it means I have propped it closed, and OH YEAH, don't just walk in to anyone's room without knocking, I don't do it to you, don't do it to me. But we don't just, like, sit on the couch and eat ice cream and watch Top Gear together butt nekkid.

OTOH, I grew up with sisters and a single mother and we all walked around naked at times. It was no big deal to walk across the hall to the linen closet after a shower if you forgot to bring a towel in with you. I still recall that horrible day when I was about 14 and was chatting with my mom as she got out of the shower and I realized that pubes grayed with age, too! LOL

Seriously, though, no one wants to see me naked, it's not pretty. So on the rare occasions that I'm home alone, I clean the house naked. Otherwise, I keep it covered.


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## lauren

There are mods.  Just not that many of us. Hang in there. I deleted the posts and I am closing the thread.


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