# The draft is back



## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

Yikes!

Well, almost. Heard a frightening interview of a Republican candidate for an upcoming US Senatorial primary (IL) today, and he was talking about the need to institute a period of mandatory military service for all US young men.

He said the idea is very popular (and is being discussed) among conservatives as a way to "pay for" the manpower needed to do things like inspect every shipping container coming into US ports. He said there are 'many Eastern European countries doing it right now,' and Israel does it too. He also said that it is favored in conservative circles as a means to control drug/crime problems among young men in the country (yah, like the service doesn't have ANY criminals or junkies).

Anyone else heard murmurings along these lines?


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

yes. my understanding is reinstating the draft is a done deal. assuming they get re-elected, of course.


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

Did you know this has been introduced in the House and Senate?

Universal National Service Act of 2003 - H. R. 163/S. 89 introduced January 7, 2003 in both houses. Mandating a two year period of military service (men AND women).

H.R. 3598 was introduced in 2002 (a similar measure).

The Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001 (a similar measure) only mandated service for young men.


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## roshismomma (Mar 19, 2002)

*mutter mutter*

running off to register more democrats

this terrifies me.

on the other hand, the draft might get enough people upset that we have a significant change in the apathetic nature of many citizens (i can be one, i'm just sayin')


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## Marg of Arabia (Nov 19, 2001)

Anyone have time to put up a link about this?

Thanks in advance....


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## Hilary Briss (Nov 22, 2001)

The draft would be a useful tool in reducing unemployment. If you can't create jobs for young people, then press them into military service, send them overseas to be killed. Voila, no more unemployment.


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

yes, the bills were introduced, along with bill extending the draft to women, but none of them went anywhere.
just like the bill calling for the end of selective service registration died a quiet death.
just because a bill gets introduced doesn't mean anything.

do I think the draft will return? yes. the current stop-losses on active-duty servicemembers and activation times for reservists are running out. they're either going to have to draft new soldiers in, or nullify the contracts of existing soldiers and force them to stay in against their will. we don't have enough people to do the jobs we've taken on, and we certainly don't have enough to escalate our military presence around the world as we seem to be hell-bent on doing.

maybe if we took our 37,000 people out of ^%&(ing KOREA where we've been for over 50 years, we could put them somewhere they'd be of more use. but that's my personal beef with the army. back to your regularly scheduled discussion.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Maybe if the military paid enough that families of the enlisted didn't have to go on Welfare to put food on the table, there'd be enough volunteers.

But that'd make too much sense, much better to draft young people involuntarily.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Elphaba_
*the current stop-losses on active-duty servicemembers and activation times for reservists are running out.*
i am at a complete loss trying to understand this. there somewhere around 150k DoD people in and around Iraq. the services combined have over 2 million(!) people. and we're spending $400 billion a year on the military.

how on earth can we not have enough personnel for what is really not that big a deployment???


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

Because Iraq is not the only commitment we've made. We are only supposed to have one-third of our forces deployed at any one time. We currently have two-thirds deployed.

Because a number of our soldiers are being involuntarily retained right now (stop-lossed), and under current law that time is only one year beyond their ETS (end time of service). However, the army is getting around that by saying that even when your ETS comes up, and the maximum stop-loss date comes up, or your maximum time of activation has come and gone (for reservists) you can't go home until your ENTIRE UNIT is ready to go.

so the number of people who are serving under current contracts is lower than the statistics reflect. And when they are FINALLY released, we're screwed.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I don't see how a draft could possibly be avoided at this point.

I assume my nephew will be called. I am very thankful that most of my family are outside of the draftable range. People need to realize that if we want to police the entire world, we will need a lot more police


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

My understanding is that the draft is _not_ a done deal because the military is so opposed to it. They have enough problems dealing with a volunteer force, trying to deal with troops who don't even want to be there in the first place is not something the military wants to have to deal with.

Quote:

_Originally posted by dado_
*i am at a complete loss trying to understand this. there somewhere around 150k DoD people in and around Iraq. the services combined have over 2 million(!) people. and we're spending $400 billion a year on the military.

how on earth can we not have enough personnel for what is really not that big a deployment???*
We have troops committed all over the globe. Off the top of my head I came up with Cuba, Europe, the Middle East, Korea and Japan.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I am SO glad I'm Canadian!

As a mother, the thought of my child being forced to go off to war terrifies me....


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Maybe if they start up the draft all the stupid americans who blindly followed monkey man into war wouldn't be so keen on it since it'd be their kids getting killed. Maybe if they used the draft with each occupation we all wouldn't think it was so far away from home. Maybe when a president decided to go bomb someplace and gave shady answers as to why we'd ask a little tougher questions. I dunno, not saying I"m for it, but these thoughts definitely cross my mind. Not that I want my baby's daddy going off to war of course, or my children for that matter. Or of course, even myself.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

here's a link, sounds like it may be event mentioned in the OP.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-sen18.html

_While no other candidates participating in the "Chicago Student Voices'' forum, to be broadcast Sunday at 1 p.m. on WTTW-Channel 11, wanted to go as far as Borling, *some were open to mandatory public service.*_

we're about one banana peel away from a slippery slope, it seems.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

If they started the draft again...

Couldn't people just say they are gay to get out of it? Wouldn't that be funny? I would love to see GWB's face when half of American men claim to be gay!

I have known a lot of people to get out for this reason, whether they are or aren't. Some lie, some get caught, some tell the truth. They are always let out with an honourable discharge.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

They will force my son to fight their dirty wars over my dead body.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Couldn't people just say they are gay to get out of it? Wouldn't that be funny? I would love to see GWB's face when half of American men claim to be gay!
Hmmm, you raise an interesting point. I notice that bariers seem to be broken down in the armed services in actual times of need. Perhaps the barriers against gays & women would finally fall. I'd be the first encouraging my son to kiss a man to get out of going, though


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## SueZVudu (Jul 6, 2002)

Let me preface this by saying I'm not actually in favor of the draft. However, I think it's appalling that so much of our military in the US is made up of people who didn't have a whole lot of choices in life. It's outrageous that the people who fight and die in wars waged by upper-crust white guys are disproportionately poor and minorities, some of whom signed up for patriotic reasons, some for financial, and some just to afford college. Wouldn't things be different if rich white boys started getting yanked off of their daddy's yachts and sent off to war? The draft isn't the answer, but I, for one, would be a lot happier if the US military had a demographic that better mirrored the rest of our society.


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## arthead (Nov 25, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SueZVudu_
*Wouldn't things be different if rich white boys started getting yanked off of their daddy's yachts and sent off to war?*
It doesn't seem like this would be the happenings though. There will probably always be magic ways for certain people to get out of sit's attending a war. Likewise, certain classes of people would be most subject. Frightening.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by SueZVudu_
*Wouldn't things be different if rich white boys started getting yanked off of their daddy's yachts and sent off to war?*
Unfortunately, last time there was a draft the sons of the rich and powerful still found ways out. they always do. they always will. unless and until the system we live under is radically transformed.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

It's outrageous that the people who fight and die in wars waged by upper-crust white guys are disproportionately poor and minorities, some of whom signed up for patriotic reasons, some for financial, and some just to afford college.
Don't forget the many of whom signed up simply to get out of going to jail







:

As long as there are exceptions for the draft they will go exclusively to middle & upper class connected people. Period. And then they go on to start more wars. Just look at the proportions of chickenhawks vs peace activists and where they were during the draft!

In some ways I could see a lot of very good parts of having a national service requirement. I just see so many people, though, who would not be a good fit.

Do Religious pacificists have to go in a draft? I *am* searching for a church


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

Tiredx2, pacifists can be drafted, to the best of my knowledge, but they are given non-combat jobs, medical, religious, etc.

That could have changed though since the last time I looked. It may be that I am thinking of conscientious objectors and religious pacifists like Quakers are given an out.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Elphaba---

I'd be happy to be a quaker







Esp with the added benifit of war avoidance. Their "official" stance is actually much more supportive of military than I would have expected though (each person has to choose for themselves whether to go into the military or not).

Thanks,
Kay


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

perversely, i wonder if a draft isn't the quickest way to stop this endless succession of invasions and wars and bombings we've had over the past 20 years. there might be a whole lot fewer chickenhawks out there if they thought there own number might come up.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

*That* is one reason I would support a mandatory service requirement if it were actually fairly applied. Not only would it lessen the number of chickenhawks--- it would give people outside of the military establishment's view a larger voice.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

This whole thing scares the crap out of me, especially because I have a child that will be of draftable age in a few years.


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## iggaboo (Aug 20, 2002)

This is terrifying to me too... DS will only be 3 in April, but I have 2 brothers - 18 yo & 16 yo... The thought of them being drafted makes me sick to my stomach.. And regarding ds, if it comes down to that when he is of age I will do everything in my power to protect him from having to go.. I am glad I have relatives in Canada..


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Is there anyone in Canada I can live with until this blows over? I don't want my SO to get drafted


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

My grandfather was drafted to WWII and he was a philisophical conscientious objector. Pretty hard to do in those times, so I know it's possible to do. Many people in our family opted out of Vietnam through other, 'honorable' ways. My uncle fought, but he was already enlisted. IMO, getting out of fighting a war because you don't believe in it is always honorable. Getting out of a war that your family supports but just doesn't want you to die in is, IMO (ahem ahem BUSH) dispicable. It is dancing on the graves of thousandds of our brothers, sons, husbands, boyfriends and fathers and saying nah nah nah nah nah.

For all the people who have supported any wars, ever, I think they should enlist themselves, even in noncombatant positions. I don't think anyone in support of the war on Iraq or Afghanistan had any rights to be sitting on their duffs watching bombs fall on TV. You believe in a war, you support it, well shoot, get your ass up from the couch and go fight it. Even all the 80 somethings should have been pitching in. I mean it. I know I'm getting







T here, but really, if every a*hole holding a flag over an overpass or sticking one on their back window volunteered to search ships and patrol the borders then maybe they wouldn't even be talking about a draft.

Sorry to go off on a tangent but I have no respect for people who support wars and don't have the cahones to go fight in them.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I don't know a ton about CO status, but one thing I do know is that if you are a conscientoious objector, you start documenting it RIGHT NOW, not when you get drafted or when you enlist.

I'll see if I can locate some info resources on that.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

A good place to start:

http://www.objector.org/


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## Knittin' in the Shade (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:

For all the people who have supported any wars, ever, I think they should enlist themselves, even in noncombatant positions. I don't think anyone in support of the war on Iraq or Afghanistan had any rights to be sitting on their duffs watching bombs fall on TV. You believe in a war, you support it, well shoot, get your ass up from the couch and go fight it.
this sounds eerily similar to people saying if you don't like america and what goes on here, then you should leave and move to another country. Both arguements are pretty lame, IMO.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by veganmamma_
*if every a*hole holding a flag over an overpass or sticking one on their back window volunteered to search ships and patrol the borders then maybe they wouldn't even be talking about a draft.
*
post of the day.
























baseball is a spectator sport. war is killing.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

You guys can all come live with me. Im am in Canada.
This sucks!It really does scare me and I dont even live there.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

hey, that is seriously something we are considering.

I even posted a whole thing on renouncing citizenship in my TAO thread on Expat taxes.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live right by the mountains. In Alberta. Beauty. Its all around me.


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Knittin' in the Shade_
*this sounds eerily similar to people saying if you don't like america and what goes on here, then you should leave and move to another country. Both arguements are pretty lame, IMO.*
What I am saying is not that at all. America is supposed to be about people changing what they don't like, not leaving.

What I am saying in the quote in your post is that people who believe that it is worth it for people lose their jobs and homes only to go get blown up in Iraq, for whatever reason they choose to believe that, should put their time on the line. If they think it is worth billions of dollars then they should spend their time contributing too. If people think it's such a valuable cause that they will send MY children off to die then they better think it's a cause valuable enough to die themselves for.

And please don't call my arguments lame, thank you very much. There is no need to get personal.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

The two are astronomically different.

In the case of "Like it or Leave it" it is being said to people putting their words into deeds--- objectors, protestors, etc... They are trying to change the country for the better and are willing to do the work to do so.

In the, "If you support the war, help fight it," people are *saying* they support the war but making no personal sacrifices. This would just be a way for them to SHOW that they mean what they say (not just because it is convenient, pretty & costs them nothing).

One group is trying to improve their country... the other is willing only to let someone else die.


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Thank you ma'am.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My Father was drafted in WWII.

My DH fought in Vietnam, and he developed cancer from Agent Orange exposure.

I remember being twelve years old and seeing the lottery for the draft take place on the floors of Congress.

I recall the feeling of huge, heavy dread as the wealthy men pulled birthdates of draft eligible men out of the huge fishbowl.

The draft ended when I was eighteen.

Now, with my sons at draft age, it is here again.

How horrible, how awful, how terrible that they could die or be maimed because of our lousy foreign policies.








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:

Maybe I'll get angry instead,








, but will it do any good?


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