# Anyone have those friends who have no business being parents??



## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

I need to vent!

I have these friends (a couple) who had a kid over a year ago... they used to be the ones who were ever-so-learned on the subject and would offer people advice on how to raise their kids. When I was pregnant, they knew exactly what to do about everything, what to take, what not to take, it's like they were obsessed with pregnancy! ...they knew all about baby products, knew every home remedy out there, when my son was born they showed me (insisted on showing me, rather), how to dress and change him... etc.

Fast forward to today, they now have their own baby....







these people don't have the first clue about children!! I feel almost lied to!! It's almost like when you see Jack Hanna appear as a guest on late night tv and the host tries to bottle feed an animal of a species he's never even seen before!

At first I thought it was because they were new parents, frazzled and their baby had colic (at this point, I'm doubting it was even colic, just thinking the kid was crying out for different parents)... they still can't feed or dress him, they carry him under their arms like a football, they just pass him off to random strangers at parties and take off to the other side of the house (we're talking wine and cheese parties, not raging keggers, but still...), when I saw his carseat (he's over 1 and still in an infant carrier), he's totally outgrown the straps and the shoulder straps now just kind of go around his upper arms instead of over his shoulders...

There is no point to this thread, I just need to vent about all this stuff and I can't say anything to my other friends because they'll find out... I'm going insane!

If anyone is wondering, I have told them about the carseat, they keep saying they have the new one ready they just have to put it in and they'll do it the next day... that hasn't happened.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

That sounds very frustrating.







Did they seem like they knew how to dress babies when they showed you on your baby, but then they didn't on their own baby? That's weird. Maybe they've got PPD or something messing with their heads.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

They seemed to know better than I did at the time but I had never done it before... I'm not sure what it is, they look like they hate their own kid but keep asking to watch mine... They act all loving and sweet with my son, hug him and tickle him, and couldn't care less about theirs.


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## sere234 (Feb 7, 2009)

That's so sad. Poor kid.


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## k x s (May 16, 2012)

Thats so weird! Maybe they don't like babies and prefer toddlers or something?


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

That might be it... the more I think about it, the more it seems like they're disappointed that they so looked forward to having a baby and theirs turned out to be not what they were expecting... He doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, never happy, doesn't play.

When I talk to her on the phone she describes this baby with all these problems and "special needs" but whenever I see him in person it looks like they're just incompetent parents... it's so frustrating to watch!!


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think reality hits many parents hard. I know it hit me really hard when I had my DD. Reading about what to do and practicing on borrowed kids is very different than having to figure out what to do when you are sleep deprived, touched out, and in need of alone time. They sound tired and in need of a break. Maybe you could do date night swaps or something if they are good with your child.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh no... I would literally rather leave my son at home alone with my dogs than give him to them. They are the "cry it out" at night kind of people and during the day they leave him in his room with the door closed (not even a baby gate) to play by himself. They have a maid and pay a babysitter all the time and go out... They just seem to have grossly misinterpreted the many books they've read.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

Escaping, your post just cracks me up. My doula said, before my son was born, that I was the most prepared she had ever seen anyone. Fast forward to now, my son is almost two. I rarely leave the house with diapers, and once I even bummed one off some parents at the mall when he pooped. I'm the worlds laziest mom when it comes to stuff like that. I do believe I broke all the rules and no i hardly have any outlet covers in the house. DH watched zombie flicks and up until about 6 months ago he would have our son in his lap!

What's funny is that it doesn't even bother me. There is a huge ice craam stain on DS stroller from like 6 months ago. It's disgusting, so I just leave the sun visor up so nobody sees it. I can't remember the last time I checked his carseat straps.

I guess for me the important stuff is good nutrition, emotional attachment (lots of talking and empathy), making sure his friends and teachers are only the best (he goes to a day care about 6 hours a week), and never losing my connection with him. That means those hours I should have spent getting a pedicure are instead spent reading to him in his pigsty of a nursery. I'll pick up when he goes to college.


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

Escaping, I just read the rest of your thread. I think maybe either the mom is just not doing great or the son is having health problems. If my son goes through unhappiness it almost always a health issue, and once in a while due to my negligence to his cueues (including not maintaining apredictable schedule) because I get stressed and exhausted.

I think if you can find some things to really praise the mom about, however hard they are to come up with, it will open the door for communication about what is not going right with them, and sometimes we moms do need the outside objective input.

But yeah it's sad they are really so detached from their kiddo; they just might have no clue what he needs.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Yea I'm up there in the world's laziest mom category too lol... but these guys expend soooooo much energy on their routines, and rules and planning, will sit in a doctor's waiting room for hours a week, and on the surface seem like very busy and productive parents, but if you watch the train wreck long enough, you realize they're so frazzled because they don't know what they're doing... and they won't let anyone else help them! (and by helping, I mean give them advice)... they're more than happy to dump their kid off with anyone who offers (they even found someone on the internet the day before they had a function







), but they won't take the simplest bit of advice from anyone like to just try heating his food up in the microwave because he's probably not eating because he hates cold food like every other human being on the planet.... but they read that the microwave is unsafe as it causes hot spots, so they run the containers/bottles under hot water for 30 seconds


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## kitteh (Jun 25, 2009)

Well microwaves DO cause hot spots. So that is why you have to stir the food up during/after microwaving, and test it before giving it to the kid. Easy peasy!


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## demeter888 (Jan 18, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Escaping*
> 
> Yea I'm up there in the world's laziest mom category too lol... but these guys expend soooooo much energy on their routines, and rules and planning, will sit in a doctor's waiting room for hours a week, and on the surface seem like very busy and productive parents, but if you watch the train wreck long enough, you realize they're so frazzled because they don't know what they're doing... and they won't let anyone else help them! (and by helping, I mean give them advice)... they're more than happy to dump their kid off with anyone who offers (they even found someone on the internet the day before they had a function
> 
> ...


I mainly avoid microwaves because it kills the nutrients at an alarming rate, and yes the hot spots do happen in certain types of foods like milk because of the way the fat is distributed.Still,I use it once in a blue moon just to get my son to eat ASAP.

Aside from that, yeah, your friends are bizarre. Some people are just not that bright when it comes down to it. LOL


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I have never heated a bottle for any child in my home (foster, relative, or other.) It's perfectly fine.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polliwog*
> 
> I have never heated a bottle for any child in my home (foster, relative, or other.) It's perfectly fine.


...but I'm assuming your children ate? This kid doesn't eat anything because they refuse to try anything that deviates from the rules they've invented for themselves. They just dismiss it as another one of his "special needs" saying he doesn't like eating. Who doesn't like eating?? ....just like she stopped breastfeeding because she said he doesn't like being held, which now that I think about it, may have been true. I also recall them saying that he liked it when they scared the crap out of him because that was the only way they could get him to stop crying. When I saw them perform this magic trick for me, they swung him around the room and pretended to drop him and he stopped crying... I'm no expert on babies, but even I learned very quickly that they have that reflex to freeze and hold their breath when they're startled, so yea, they stop crying but that doesn't mean it's because they like what's going on.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

That is terrifying. I don't know anybody like that, and I'm glad. I mean, what do you do in that situation? Offer to help and offer advice? Call CPS? Call the grandparents? Stage an intervention? Register for a parenting class and say you don't want to go alone and try to talk one of them into going with you?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I have daycare parents who should NEVER reproduce again. Ever. They are recently divorced, but even with different spouses, they should never make another child.

It's hard to watch, because it's a new train wreck every week with these people.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Escaping*
> 
> He doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, never happy, doesn't play.


I had friends who's son was like this. They INSISTED he would only use the Dr Brown's bottles. But, he gagged and cried, and it took 45 minutes to get 4 oz in him. I had him for a few hours, and gave him a playtex bottle, he ate 6 oz in no time.

They said "He never sleeps". But, they were co-sleeping, and he was a light sleeper. So, when they finally decided to make him sleep alone in his own room, he slept through the night, and his entire personality changed within two weeks of sleeping. He still didn't take the Dr Brown Bottles, but now that he's off the bottle, he eats fine.

Sometimes, parents need to let go of what doesn't work, and try everything else to see what DOES work. They were kicking themselves after they realized how pleasant and relaxed he is when he gets enough sleep and enough to eat without the frustration.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm sorry, it seems like they are doing some weird things, but mostly the posts just make you sound really judgmental of them. Maybe their son does have special needs. Maybe you don't have any idea the extent to what they're dealing with at home when no ones around. It seems like you assume that if they just did things the way you think they should, their child would be different. The reality is that you have no idea how the child would respond to your ideas.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrunchyChristianMama*
> 
> I'm sorry, it seems like they are doing some weird things, but mostly the posts just make you sound really judgmental of them. Maybe their son does have special needs. Maybe you don't have any idea the extent to what they're dealing with at home when no ones around. It seems like you assume that if they just did things the way you think they should, their child would be different. The reality is that you have no idea how the child would respond to your ideas.


I know it sounds judgmental, that's why I'm here, I just have to rant!









My friends and I have all watched him so we all know he doesn't have special needs... but we also try different things until something works. I don't have one specific way of doing things, but if something consistently isn't working, I try something else. I don't care what the rules are, I just do what works.


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## fizgig (Aug 3, 2007)

Escaping, I obviously don't know these people and clearly them using an inappropriate carseat is a serious problem, HOWEVER, I do have a son with special needs and I got so freaking tired of people treating me like an incompetent mother I eventually just smiled and nodded when people gave me advice about how to get my child to eat/sleep/etc.

Our son had severe reflux and sensory issues and literally did not sleep for more than 45 min at a time for 11 months. I tried everything under the sun, which of course random people who saw me at social events didn't see. All they saw was a very unhappy baby and me "doing nothing" to help him. No I wasn't cuddling him (because he hated it), I wasn't checking his diaper or feeding him (because that wasn't the problem), I wasn't bounding or walking him, because I had found a person who was willing to hold him for 20 min while I had the first adult conversation and break from my poor little sick child in a week or two. I carried him 24/7 and so yeah, when I had the chance to get a few minutes, I took them. He also didn't eat solids until he was over a year which was not because I didn't heat his food. It was because he couldn't swallow. But I had a million people tell me what to cook, how to prepare it, etc, and I did exactly what they did to you which was to say "yeah that doesn't work" or "we don't do that because <silly reason>" just so they would stop telling me what to do.

From the outside I know for a fact it looked "neglectful" because I had numerous people say directly or hint as much. It really sucked and isolated me further because no one seemed to understand. When I said he didn't sleep I swear every single person I said that too either said "yeah I remember it wasn't until DS was 8 months that he slept through the night, before that he woke up two or three times a night" to which I remember thinking "ONLY 2 or 3 times?!" Or they said "You should really try XX, YY, or ZZ" and then assumed I wasn't really trying if he still wouldn't sleep.

Because of COURSE I didn't want to talk to those people about our struggles, considering they weren't any real help, why would I feel obligated to take the time to explain that we'd been to 4 different specialists that week, that we'd tried a million things, that we were literally dying from lack of sleep.

So, I guess my point is that you just really DON'T know and, while you may be right and these people are just jerks, the fact that they shared with you that their child has serious problems and your reactions is "well when I see him he seems fine" is exactly what some of my "friends" did to me. I apologize but this is really a sore spot for me because I felt positively abandoned by people I previously considered friends when they turned into advice dispensing machines rather than actually listening to what I was saying about our struggles and never simply asking "hey you seem to be having some trouble, is there anything I can do to help?"


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

I have known some people who have no business being parents. They do drugs, and drop their kids off with friends or relatives "for a couple of hours" (which ends up being days or weeks). Or they don't see / speak to their kids for weeks or months, don't call, don't answer the phone when their kids call. They never pay child support, while buying themselves expensive toys. They invite dangerous people into their homes, and then call the cops on their own kids for defending themselves. They beat their spouses in front of the kids. They move to another state without telling anyone.

(If you're wondering why I don't call CPS, most of these people have already lost custody, for good reason. Some of them their kids are grown, and one is someone I knew a long time ago, who has since died.)


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## glassesgirlnj (Mar 15, 2012)

Escaping, it sounds like you do get some time with this child without his parents around ("they'll leave him with anyone", "we've all watched him", etc).

What happens when you tell the parents "wow, he really seemed to like it today when I XYZ - maybe you could try it at home!" Do they just ignore you? Have they *ever* taken *any* of your suggestions, and if so, how were those suggestions worded?

I guess it comes down to, do you think these people are well-meaning but kind of ditzy, or genuinely neglectful? (Some of the things you mentioned - like leaving him in his room all day long with the door shut - would be in the "genuine neglect" category for me, if that's really what's happening.)

If they're well-meaning but ditzy: maybe let them find their own parenting style, with your encouragement and your *constructive* feedback, *when they ask for it*?

If they're genuinely neglectful: do you have a moral obligation to report it to someone who can do something? Or do you think venting on the Internet is enough?


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

They're just well-meaning but ditzy. They buy all the best products for their kid, have him enrolled in a very expensive daycare, they just don't seem very skilled with the actual act of parenting. When I make him a bottle, they give it to him, he drinks it, I tell them how I did it, they just say "we tried that, it doesn't work" (when I just saw it work)... I put him in our baby swing, he slept in it for 3 hours while they were here, but they said they don't want him to get used to it. He's fallen asleep in my arms, I put him down in our pack & play, they poke him awake because that's not his nap time.

They put him in his room because they want him to be able to play independently, which I agree is good, but if it were my son, I'd want to be able to see him...

None of it is CPS worthy, it's more just frustrating to watch.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Escaping*
> 
> ... but these guys expend soooooo much energy on their routines, and rules and planning, will sit in a doctor's waiting room for hours a week,


Why? Is their child not doing well?

From your posts, I feel we are not getting the whole picture and only confusing snapshots. If they are averse to your suggestions, lend or gift them some helpful books or maybe just share weblinks to relevant sites, might work better.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *seawind*
> 
> *Why? Is their child not doing well?*
> 
> From your posts, I feel we are not getting the whole picture and only confusing snapshots. If they are averse to your suggestions, lend or gift them some helpful books or maybe just share weblinks to relevant sites, might work better.


He's doing fine... they're from the US and enjoying the free healthcare, I think lol... there has never been anything more serious than a sniffle actually happen to him (unless you count a mosquito bite which they considered too close to his eye), but he's been x-rayed and MRIed more than most adults I know... their other obsession is that they keep thinking he's twisted his leg/knee/broken his fingers, etc. A lot of the time they're at the doctor is because when they read labels which advise to consult a physician, they actually do. (It kind of bugs me that people like what is why I have to wait 2 months for a doctor appointment, but that's another rant altogether)... I'm sure they also think I'm an awful parent because my son has only been to the doctor 3 times in his life...

They've already read all the books, far more than I have which is probably why they don't listen to anything anyone else has to say.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Escaping*
> 
> They've already read all the books, far more than I have which is probably why they don't listen to anything anyone else has to say.


It sounds like they're a bit hung up on how parenting "should be" according to the books, so when they're faced with how things are, they can't reconcile the difference.

eta: and I agree with what Imakcerka says in the next post too.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Escaping it sounds like two different parenting ideals. Yours and theirs. You think yours is better which is fine because lots of people are that way. However it's counterproductive as a whole. Maybe you should stop judging these people. Because honestly you've really said nothing about them that brings up any red flags.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Escaping it sounds like two different parenting ideals. Yours and theirs. You think yours is better which is fine because lots of people are that way. However it's counterproductive as a whole. Maybe you should stop judging these people. Because honestly you've really said nothing about them that brings up any red flags.


I have to agree. Unless you are with the child, raising him/her 24/7 you are really only seeing a snapshot of their lives. Since it seems that their parenting methods really clash with your own personal beliefs maybe putting a little distance in your friendship until he's older would be a good thing.


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## kristah1000 (Jun 2, 2011)

Just wanted to say that I get where Escaping is coming from...she's just venting! I know people who are parents and do things that I think are completely ridiculous, and I vent about them to my DH too. It doesn't mean I am not nice to them, or that I can't be friends with them. It also doesn't mean that I think I am a perfect parent. It means that I have friends who sometimes make parenting decisions that are different from mine. Having an opinion and being judgemental are very different, I don't see where the OP is saying she is rude to her friends because of their choices.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kristah1000*
> 
> Just wanted to say that I get where Escaping is coming from...she's just venting! *I know people who are parents and do things that I think are completely ridiculous*, and I vent about them to my DH too. It doesn't mean I am not nice to them, or that I can't be friends with them. It also doesn't mean that I think I am a perfect parent. *It means that I have friends who sometimes make parenting decisions that are different from mine. Having an opinion and being judgemental are very different.*


But it does perpetuate the mommy wars. Theres no reason for it. Theres lots of ways to raise children, there is no one right way.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> But it does perpetuate the mommy wars. Theres no reason for it. Theres lots of ways to raise children, there is no one right way.


Exactly! I have three sisters with kids and none of us do it the same and yet all of our kids are growing up into pretty awesome humans! Schedules work for some and not others. Parents who seem completely out of control at one moment may be completely together and collected the rest of their day.
The fact is, no one can judge another to be awful (with the exception of obvious physical and/or sexual abuse) without walking a lifetime in their shoes. You just can't.
I understand the need to vent but its the expected dogpile on the guilty awful friends that is so dangerous. Chances are at least a few members here live with some of the traits described by the op. Does that make them awful unfit parents? Nope. It just doesn't.
The mommy wars suck and are completely pointless. Why waste time and energy bashing another mom when that time could be put towards more positive activities.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Just venting is fine. But so far, most of it sounds more snarky than plain venting.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I think that the putting him in his room by himself to play with the door closed is concerning. Though it depends on how long it's for. If it's a childproof room and he is left there for a short time (5 minutes to put the laundry in, 15 minutes for mom to take a shower, whatever), that's one thing, but if it's for longer stretches I'd say that's worrisome. Some of the other stuff I agree it's hard to tell what is really going on. But if I knew people who were like this I'd probably write a similar thread venting, personally.

eta: I take the point about not perpetuating the mommy wars, but I do think that discussing "why do people do x or y?" doesn't necessarily have to mean one is perpetuating the mommy wars.


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## kitteh (Jun 25, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> eta: I take the point about not perpetuating the mommy wars, but I do think that discussing "why do people do x or y?" doesn't necessarily have to mean one is perpetuating the mommy wars.


Sure, but when the title of the thread asserts that these people "have no business being parents" I do think that escalates this beyond an innocent, frustrated vent.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I thought it was pretty obvious the thread title was hyperbole, but w/e.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I think many of us - being peace loving "AP" parents keep a lot of negative feelings at bay as we try to model positive living for our kids. So, when we have vent threads here at MDC there is both the "dog pile" and also the temptation to take some anxiety over the "mommy wars" out on the mother doing the venting.









It's been a while since I felt the need to vent about another parent but one thing Escaping and I have in common is that I often only feel the need to vent or "judge" if it is about a parent who I have felt judged by myself. Different parenting philosophies are one thing but opinions from people without children and/or from people who haven't BTDT are especially frustrating. So, I can relate to your vent! I have also found that those parents who are not considerate of the fact that all families have different values for childcare/playdate swaps are sometimes the ones who tend to think there is only one way to parent.

Also relating to the idea that while venting is valuable, there are other productive things that can be done...

I feel like I know some people similar to your friends. My instincts about how to relate to them would be to really model humility. I think sometimes parents feel like they have to be super sure of everything. I'd also open up to the things that are disappointing or challenging because I agree that it sounds like maybe infant parenting was maybe not exactly what they expected. Maybe they don't have a good friend to open up to.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Well the initial vent was what I would consider meh, yeah I get it. BUT as it continued it was more or less that she really just doesn't like these people. Vent about the issues, if you don't like the people you can find lots of things about them you don't like. And hey that's cool and fine but I really do not like the part where ones parenting is questioned in such a manner that one feels they shouldn't be allowed to be parents when really they've done nothing I'd call CPS over.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

She's not discussing why. Which is why I said it was counter productive. And AP doesn't mean "I'M A BETTER PARENT" It means we've chosen a different parenting path, one we feel is best for OUR children. It's not good to look at a perfectly fine family and pick them apart because they don't do it how you do it. AND I think it really makes AP parents look like their holier than thou and as an AP parent myself it bothers me. That is all.

I was responding to Erigeron but I had quoting fail.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I can really relate to this comment:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> AND I think it really makes AP parents look like their holier than thou and as an AP parent myself it bothers me.


Ever since I joined MDC, I have been on the side of "motherhood" when we discuss other parents. I'm not sure if it's the tone of Escaping's posts, or that I can really relate to some of her frustrations, or if I have mellowed a bit in how I judge a parent's need to vent, but I don't read this thread as being a condemnation of doing things differently. And she certainly doesn't come off as holier than thou.

My read is Escaping struggling with a family that is a bit "know it all-ish" who are struggling with parenting in a way that manifests in some parenting choices that are difficult to watch. I don't think we are participating in the mommy-wars if we identify and sympathize with Escaping's need to vent about that.

This is not to say that I am the expert on the intent of Escaping's posts on this thread. But, if the intentions are to tone down the mommy wars, I think we can start with how we approach Escaping here on this thread. The same exact process that allows us to evaluate a parent doing things vastly differently from us and come to a level of respect for that parent, can be applied to Escaping's need to vent.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

Mom at church using force to keep her two small children from leaving the nursery area when she left to rejoin the service. (The nursery is staffed by paid sitters during the service.) She left the nursery and basically physically pried her kids off her body. And this was her action of first resort. It wasn't like she told them "Okay, I am going to go back in and I will see you soon" or "Please let go of my leg because I need to go" and they continued to protest and cling. It was more she stood up, they followed her to the door, and she then turned around and started pushing them back. At least one of the two would likely respond fine to one of the above statements or something similar, just based on my other interactions with the child.

I've seen a few other things from this family that make me raise an eyebrow, but as was said upthread, you only see a slice of anyone's family life, could be a reason, today could be an exception to what they usually do, etc. But this does make me sad to watch, and this isn't the first time I've seen something similar happen either. I just don't think this is very fair to the kids. (Also, if she did this in front of other adults, would she do worse in private?)


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I really do not like the part where ones parenting is questioned in such a manner that one feels they shouldn't be allowed to be parents when really they've done nothing I'd call CPS over.


 The title of the Op was over the top, but not a big deal. It is pretty clear to me she was just blowing off steam.

There is a big chasm between behaviour we find questionable and calling CPS on someone. I am not okay with some of the behaviour Escaping described - such as dropping the baby to induce a fear response, getting a sitter off the Internet, the car seat size and some of the sleep issues. It would be nice if we could vent online - it beats just denying our negative feelings - or moving too hastily before we have had time to process what (if anything) to do about our negative feelings.

I also think that many of us are problem solvers - and we tend to want to jump to the inevitable conclusion rather than giving people space to sort it out. The inevitable conclusion here is Escaping will either learn to accept their parent style and continue the friendship, or she will not be able to accept the way they parent for one reason or another, and will distance herself - either temporarily or permanently, depending on how things go.

Escaping - I do not vent on MDC anymore on anything other than very trivial matters. It usually leads to a dogpile, and I don't think it is worth it.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> It would be nice if we could vent online - it beats just denying our negative feelings - or moving too hastily before we have had time to process what (if anything) to do about our negative feelings.
> 
> I also think that many of us are problem solvers - and we tend to want to jump to the inevitable conclusion rather than giving people space to sort it out. The inevitable conclusion here is Escaping will either learn to accept their parent style and continue the friendship, or she will not be able to accept the way they parent for one reason or another, and will distance herself - either temporarily or permanently, depending on how things go.


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## fizgig (Aug 3, 2007)

Not that I don't think you can vent, but I will say again that it seems very possible to me that you don't have a full picture of what is going on with that family.

It is a rare doctor that will order multiple MRIs without some serious cause for concern considering you have to sedate children for them, so I strongly suspect you simply have no clue what they are dealing with and are judging them based on an incomplete picture. If you actually consider these people your friends, I would suggest that you find out more about their child's problems before dismissing them as paranoid or somehow overwrought which is how you paint them here.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

How is it dogpiling? How bout letting her know that while she's venting and it's certainly fine to do, she may or may not have it wrong. Honestly a sounding board is a good place to check yourself. Unless you want everyone to agree with you which really leads where? I could complain that I THINK someone is doing parenting wrong, list all the things I THINK are wrong and someone could tell me I have it wrong and maybe I shouldn't get so upset. I'll put on my big girl panties, think about it for a minute and consider that maybe, just maybe I'm putting too much into concerning myself with other people. Otherwise what's the point of a forum? Really let me know my pm box is always open.

And I did NOT dogpile. THIS IS NOT A DOG PILE!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> How is it dogpiling? How bout letting her know that while she's venting and it's certainly fine to do, she may or may not have it wrong. Honestly a sounding board is a good place to check yourself. Unless you want everyone to agree with you which really leads where? I could complain that I THINK someone is doing parenting wrong, list all the things I THINK are wrong and someone could tell me I have it wrong and maybe I shouldn't get so upset. I'll put on my big girl panties, think about it for a minute and consider that maybe, just maybe I'm putting too much into concerning myself with other people. Otherwise what's the point of a forum? Really let me know my pm box is always open.
> 
> And I did NOT dogpile. THIS IS NOT A DOG PILE!


I'm DEFINITELY not saying your're dog piling. I may not even understand the term, actually, or how it was originally used here on this thread.







I thought the original use of the term was to say that the "dog pile" (agreeing with the person doing the venting) was a bad thing. That it's one thing for an individual to vent but that when lots of people pile on, it becomes uncomfortable.

Where I was discussing your point of view and the point of view of some others who wanted to discuss some of the negatives that come out of a post like this, is that I think (depending on how it's done) that criticism of the person doing the venting can feel quite a lot like what you're rallying against.

I don't mean that to be critical - just more of an observation. Some of the words and implications directed to the OP were somewhat harsh, IMO, and not especially forgiving or understanding. So, if we're saying this OP needs to do better with how she judges another parent and how much she is concerned with another parent, we can look to ourselves as well.

But, in all honestly, some of this perspective is about personal growth for myself. There was a time where I was very "judgmental about judgmental-ness". As time went on and I processed some of those feelings, FOR ME, it was helpful to apply some of those same principals that allowed me to accept/process some negative parenting choices towards those parents I felt were all high and mighty. Because, really, when a person is in that place (not saying the OP is!) they are struggling too. A high and mighty parent full of condemnation and judgement for fellow mothers IS a parent struggling just as much as a parent struggling with other hurdles. It may be slightly more difficult to take and relate to (as I expressed in my first post on this thread and as can be attested to by the OP) but I think we do ourselves better in the "mommy wars" if we identify that and come to them with compassion.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TCMoulton*
> 
> I understand the need to vent but its the expected dogpile on the guilty awful friends that is so dangerous.


Here is the original use...


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
> 
> Here is the original use...


In my post that you quoted I was referencing people dogpiling on the mom the OP was discussing.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TCMoulton*
> 
> In my post that you quoted I was referencing people dogpiling on the mom the OP was discussing.


Yes, that was how I understood it.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I was responding to KM. She always disagrees with me, it's our thing I guess.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I was responding to KM. She always disagrees with me, it's our thing I guess.


We must be different astrological signs.

I am not sure I have been on a thread with you in months, so I am a little lost.

There were a few people jumping on the Op - you write fairly clearly, so perhaps I tend to highlight what you say to respond to it. .

For my part, I occasionally have people who always seem to disagree with me. I do sometimes find it annoying, so I will try and check myself before posting after you, and see if I can make a more general post, instead of quoting you.

_______________

As per whether it is a dogpile, that is in the eye of the beholder. It is not the worst I have seen.

I don't only think writing on a message board needs to be about getting alternate opinions - sometimes it is for seeking an "I understand" from someone - particularly when you cannot really talk about it in real life.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

nm


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama*
> 
> Yes, that was how I understood it.


Gotcha


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> We must be different astrological signs.
> 
> ...


Actually I was being ridic. I just thought the OP shouldn't get herself too worked up over a difference in parenting that's all.


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## prettysymmetry (Jan 13, 2013)

If you truly consider yourself deep down to be the mom's friend, next time you're alone with her ask her "how she's doing?" rather than letting the focus be on the child. She seems like she's truly suffering ..
If these are your hubby's friends, then maybe he can approach the husband in said couple by asking him how he is doing..?
just athought to help gain insight.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I don't only think writing on a message board needs to be about getting alternate opinions - sometimes it is for seeking an "I understand" from someone - particularly when you cannot really talk about it in real life.












The post wasn't really meant as an expectation of a dogpile, I was mostly expecting people to post about similar experiences (the first part did say "Anyone have those friends...







)... my responses just seemed to snowball lol

I wasn't trying to say I'm a better parent or a worse parent (I don't really care about comparing my parenting to others anyway), just needed a place to write down all the things that bug me.

I understand the frustrations of people who really have special needs kids and others don't understand, but this child is truly not special needs. I think it's more about their need to look for problems and solve them.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

But the second part of your title was "who have no business being parents." I know lots of those people. Many no longer have custody of their children or have lost their parental rights. Your examples aren't even close.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Polliwog*
> 
> But the second part of your title was "who have no business being parents." I know lots of those people. Many no longer have custody of their children or have lost their parental rights. Your examples aren't even close.


I think it was just an over the top ranty title - and not to be taken literally (shrug).

That being said - some of the stuff the OP described is not Okay.

At one point the Op said they left their baby with someone they found on the interent. I don't know what this means, exactly (like a babysitter with references they found on the internet or some random person through Craigslist? ) but really, depending on details, this might be CPS worthy. I have seen threads where people urge others to call CPS for less.

What I think happened in this thread is the OP complained about some stuff that was not problematic (such as holding the baby like a football. Who cares?) but I think there were some serious issues in there that were overlooked due to being mixed in with trivial issues.


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## kitteh (Jun 25, 2009)

I have used a babysitter that I found on craigslist. We took photocopies of her drivers license, contacted her references, and met with her beforehand. To think that would be cps worthy is laughable.


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## kathymuggle (Jul 25, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> At one point the Op said they left their baby with someone they found on the interent. I don't know what this means, exactly *(like a babysitter with references they found on the internet* or some random person through Craigslist? ) but really, depending on details, this might be CPS worthy. I have seen threads where people urge others to call CPS for less.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kitteh*
> 
> I have used a babysitter that I found on craigslist. We took photocopies of her drivers license, contacted her references, and met with her beforehand. To think that would be cps worthy is laughable.


Well, it sounds like you fell into the "babysitter with references" category - which is quite different from the random person on the internet category (to me random person implies someone who is not checked out by the parents, but I am not going to bother arguing word choice.)

A lot of this thread feels quite Twilight zonish to me.


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## kitteh (Jun 25, 2009)

Ha, I just mention it because it's possible to use a "random person off craigslist" and not necessarily be a horrible parent. Not trying to stir up arguments over semantics.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I've gotten lots of baby sitting jobs through the internet and through classified jobs in the pre-internet days.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Escaping it sounds like two different parenting ideals. Yours and theirs. You think yours is better which is fine because lots of people are that way. However it's counterproductive as a whole. Maybe you should stop judging these people. Because honestly you've really said nothing about them that brings up any red flags.


I totally agree.

Your parenting decisions are your own, and so are theirs. IMO, it is super rude to say "this person should never have kids". They love their kid, the arent abusing him, Im assuming he isnt FTT (which if he really "wasnt eating" he would be FTT).

~

The mom who passes her kid off at parties to random strangers, holds them like a football under my arm, and heats bottles up in the microwave.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> I totally agree.
> 
> ...


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