# Spanking Illegal?



## BeauGeek (Feb 17, 2004)

Should spanking be illegal

Look at the poll on the side


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## Vermillion (Mar 12, 2005)

wow... big difference


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## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

The poll is so sad. I expect the NE to be a little more educated about such things.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

That's sad, but I am not that surprised. Most of the people I know feel a tap on the hand or a swat on the bottom is the proper way to disapline a child. They don't see this as abuse or anything of the sort. Sadly, if this bill passes it will give parents free rain to beat the living heck out of their children, or at least they may see it that way. Very sad.


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

I am actually split on this. While I don't think parent's should hit their children for any reason, I'm not sure I want the government implementing more laws that regulate how we act, including how we raise our children.

Maybe that makes sense?


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

While I agree that hitting ect is wrong, I think it's a slippery slope, I litterally had to drag dd through the airport about 2 months ago, where will the line be drawn.

Also I don't want the government telling me how to raise my children, this law is for something we like however what if the next one is mandatory vax, against NIP or co-sleeping......


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ja mama*
I am actually split on this. While I don't think parent's should hit their children for any reason, I'm not sure I want the government implementing more laws that regulate how we act, including how we raise our children.

The problem with this is that children *need* this protection because, as of now, it's okay to hit and do all manner of abusive things to them. I agree that I don't want the government extensively regulating how people can act, but when their actions are inflicting harm on other members of our society (particularly those who can't otherwise defend themselves), then that behavior NEEDS to be prohibited by law.

Did anyone read the discussion page? Once again, there are the numbskulls claiming that no spanking = no discipline. And, of course, the one trying to explain the difference between hitting and spanking. Someone should ask him what he would call the action he has described as spanking if it was done to an adult.

It's sad that there are so many uncreative, detached parents out there who actually believe that it is their right to hit their child - or that their child actually needs to be hit.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eman'smom*
Also I don't want the government telling me how to raise my children, this law is for something we like however what if the next one is mandatory vax, against NIP or co-sleeping......

The difference is that this bill would just afford children protection from something that everyone else in the country is already afforded protection against. It's bringing children up to the level of humans.

There's no slippery slope here.


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## Juniper (Apr 20, 2004)

I agree with Dragonfly. Children should be treated equally.

Jennifer


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## wheezie (Sep 18, 2004)

Another one here that agrees w/ Dragonfly.








I *wish* spanking was illegal.


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
The difference is that this bill would just afford children protection from something that everyone else in the country is already afforded protection against. It's bringing children up to the level of humans.

There's no slippery slope here.

ITA with this. It is illegal to hit anyone else. But perfectly legal to hit a child? That doesn't make sense to me.

And if you look at Scandinavian countries (for example) where it is illegal to spank, you see a lot more creative parenting. A law like this would force parents to think outside of the box, and I think that would be a good thing.

They tried to pass a law outlawing spanking over 3's (still would have been legal to spank under 3's














) here in Scotland, but weren't able to.

I do tend to think that the English-speaking world has a long way to go before it does actually see children as human beings, just like everyone else.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
They tried to pass a law outlawing spanking over 3's (still would have been legal to spank under 3's














) here in Scotland, but weren't able to.

WOW so the younger you spank the better? I am so glad that wasn't passed.

I am also one of those who is tired of all these little piddely laws being passed to control our actions, however like metioned above this is for protecting children. How long did beating the holy crap out of your child go on before it was called abuse? I am talking black eyes and the like. Now we know that is wrong and illegal. Now it is time to take a step forward and proclaim that the simple act of hitting your child is wrong and illegal. Imagine if your DH told his boss "I am not working this Saturday!" so your boss took off his belt and spanked DH. Are you kidding? That's illegal! But it's ok to do it to a child.... so sad.

I also see the slippery slope thing, but only if this bill DIDN'T get passed. This gives parents free rain to beat their children, not just the spankers and hand slappers, but the ones who do it out of anger and frustration and use belts and hangers. Where do we draw the line?


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hunnybumm*
This gives parents free rain to beat their children, not just the spankers and hand slappers, but the ones who do it out of anger and frustration and use belts and hangers.

I believe that the majority of spankers do it out of anger and frustration. In fact, I can't remember ever seing a child get hit when the parent was feeling calm and loving.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
They tried to pass a law outlawing spanking over 3's (still would have been legal to spank under 3's ) here in Scotland, but weren't able to.

Wow. That's opposite Canada's law which states it's illegal to spank a child under 2. Of course, we're still only permitted to spank the young children here as it's also illegal to spank children over 10. Apparently spanking works for an 8 year period in a child's life, but the rest of the time it doesn't.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

WOW - 88% of people polled so far disapprove of making spaking illegal. Disturbing.

To me, phsycial abuse to a child is worse than phsycial abuse to a spouse. A child is so defenseless.


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## Live Free Or Die (Jun 12, 2005)

I saw a guy on the news saying that making spanking illegal would infringe on his civil rights


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
The difference is that this bill would just afford children protection from something that everyone else in the country is already afforded protection against. It's bringing children up to the level of humans.

There's no slippery slope here.









:


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abac*
I believe that the majority of spankers do it out of anger and frustration. In fact, I can't remember ever seing a child get hit when the parent was feeling calm and loving.

I feel very fortunite then.







I have one aquaintance from play group who threatens to spank and spanks in utter frustration and anger. The other mommas get down at their childrens level and say "We don't hit" then slap their hand (yes I know that is a rediculous thing to say). But as far as I can tell there isn't anger, just punishment for whatever they did that was wrong. Though out of 10 friends I have only ever seen two people spank / hand smack their children. Guess I just haven't been very exposed. :/

Oh, well I have seen random strangers spank their kids in anger but honestly, not that often.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

I agree that there should be laws protecting kids from any kind of hitting. You could say that that interferes with parents' privacy, but what about the child's right to be free from violence? A drunk a**hole who yells obscenities at people would be protected from being hit, but a child would not.

But I wouldn't want to see anyone go to jail. I think it would do more harm to a child to see a parent who slapped him on the hand go to jail than if there was no law at all. Maybe parenting classes.


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## MrsMoe (May 17, 2005)

It's so amazing to me that hitting a defenseless child is "OK" because "our parents did it."

It is never OK to hit, hurt, or otherwise physically assult a person, let alone when that person cannot fight back, or when that person is a child - YOUR - child.

I used to think spanking was normal and acceptable, and I bet ltos of us did. Why? Because my parents did it to me, and your parents likely did it to you. If we grow up with it, we think it's acceptable behavior. Then years ago somebody and I got into a discussion about it, and they asked if I thought it was also acceptable for a husband to hit his wife. I of course said no, then they said, and what is the difference between that and striking a child? Wouldn't a child be worse, as they are small and defenseless? It's so queer that it never crossed my mind to look at it that way.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:

"He forgot his book. I went upstairs, I got my belt. I came downstairs. I gave him three swats on the rear end, with his pants on, like any concerned parent would do, and scared him, of course, you know. Hopefully I got the point across," Charles Enloe said.
I feel nauseous after reading that.

Regarding the link as a whole though -- I know it won't pass now, but I'm thrilled that it is even being considered. Its a step in the right direction that such issues are being tossed around at all.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

At first, I thought I was against it. The government makes too many new laws as it is. But you shouldn't be able to do something to a child that you can't do to an adult. And this bill covered some crazy stuff, like whippng and administering electric shocks. How is that not illegal already?


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## LeShea (Aug 20, 2002)

I am against the idea of regulating this and I know I am probably not going to be loved for the disagreeing but I do think it is a slippery slope of others deciding what is "dangerous/ bad" for our children......some people would say that no vaxing is dangerous for a child.....others would say homeschooling is abuse for children not to be with others their own age etc.........maybe co-sleeping is too dangerous for children....

I am for protecting children from violence though....just to clarify. I do believe that abuse is a terrible thing and that we should really protect children more. I just dont see THIS as the answer.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I'm completely for regulating it and I'm very much against teh government overly interfering in my life. The difference is easy- adults are protected in my country from physical violence. Children should be to.

At one time hitting your wife was ok... and it isn't anymore. i believe as we evolve more will see the wrong in hitting children.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeShea*
I am for protecting children from violence though....just to clarify. I do believe that abuse is a terrible thing and that we should really protect children more. I just dont see THIS as the answer.

What do you propose doing to protect children?


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## fljen (Oct 8, 2004)

On the one hand it would be absolutely wonderful if we could guarantee that children would not be abused.

However, as with sexual abuse you can occasionally have children placing false claims and being removed from their families, what happens when a child makes a false claim of being spanked and it cannot be proved or disproved? What will happen to the parents? What will happen to the child? Teenage angst could very easily lead to more of these types of situations.

Hypothetically speaking, say this law has passed and you have a child that has done something wrong, the parents try to handle the situation "properly" and the child tells them that they don't have to listen or follow rules because they'll report the parents to the police/school/etc if they do? How do you GD a child that has never been GD'd before and they are out of control and are threatening to strike back?

Also, the schools, police and child protective agencies are already overwhelmed with the current issues. Who will be doing the watching? Who will be watching the watchers to make sure that they are doing their jobs properly?

I wish I had an answer as to what would be the best solution to ensure that our children are raised in the best manner possible but I don't. Unfortunately there seems to be a large potential for abuse of the system in this situation...


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeShea*
I am for protecting children from violence though....just to clarify. I do believe that abuse is a terrible thing and that we should really protect children more. I just dont see THIS as the answer.

What's the answer then? If it's not illegal to hit children, then they can't be protected from hitting.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

There's another thread about this here for anyone that's interested:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=299273

I persoanlly think it's disgusting that it's illegal to hit an adult but it's not illegal to hit children.


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## LeShea (Aug 20, 2002)

For all those that are asking............I don't have a solution. I wish I did. I am someone who has been sexually abused as a child and overly spanked by the same father who abused me.......I am not unclear on my hate of violence toward children....I don't know how to stop it though.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

I also do not approve of that bill. As long as a parent is not abusing the child, I do not want the government telling _anyone_ how to parent.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

When is hitting not abusive?


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Yeah I'd like to know that too. Too me hitting = abuse.


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## mermommy (Aug 16, 2004)

The numbers in that poll and the quotes in the article make me sick. Spanking/ whipping/ shocking all of these are abuse. I think there should be a law to protect children and I don't think that it should be put aside because some kid might falsely accuse his parents? ! There was a similer comment made about device to help catch rapists - gee thats nice and all but you know a woman can use that to get back at a cheating hubby or some such...

The possibility of a few misusing the system does not negate the need for protection.


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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

I believe that a child should have the same legal rights to be protected from assault that adults do and I agree with Mermommy that "The possibility of a few misusing the system does not negate the need for protection."

Whether legislation is passed to make spanking (or other forms of physical contact aimed at "discipling" children) is secondary to our society's feelings about it. I don't believe that legislation will come down the pike *until* the majority of adults see physical punishment as *WRONG*. And the way that I think we go about changing the mindset of adults who think it is fine to spnak is to raise our children gently. To use creative ways to help our children fit and function in society, to teach them self control and not use fear as an outside influence to shape their behavior. We need people to see more GD success. It will take a while but when people see a better way, they will disdain the old way. When they have contempt for hitting children, they will lobby their politicians for a change. Until then, we have children to love and guide and examples to set.


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## LeShea (Aug 20, 2002)

I think that some of this is a moot point either way and here is why.............Smoking pot is illegal and they can't even deal with this issue for lack of space in jails and the legal system is already past capacity......we may pass the law but even then it may just be a paper tribute to the effort for the most part....

There are all kinds of transgressions that are not enforced alreaady.....I am interested in what would be the sentencing on a regular swat on the butt or an "average" spanking as far as those who are for the law? My spankings were all within the norm or average type............I just got more spankings than my other sister who was my "father's" REAL daughter...

I just want to see what people are thinking........I dont want to start a war. I am just not sure what everyone has in mind......


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Well, I know this is not a perfect analogy, but look at seatbelt use - it DID increase a great deal just because it became law. There are people who wear them since the law who otherwise would not. Stopping the cycle of family violence is harder than strapping on a seatbelt, but I think a lot of people would make a more serious effort if it were punishable.


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## LeShea (Aug 20, 2002)

maybe so................one can only hope.


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

um..."administering electric shocks"??? do people friggin DO THIS to kids??? WTF???

it should be illegal. honestly, i don't care about the legal precedent. if someone wants to ban co-sleeping i'll fight it to the death. but i won't step aside on this issue to avoid a battle later. where's the sense in that? run away from important battles so that you won't be faced with other ones? i don't do that. let the chips fall where they may. let them try to take away my right to NIP and co-sleep. it won't stop me from supporting a bill that would make spanking illegal.

children should be protected.


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## TanyaMT (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't think a law against spanking/hitting will make any difference honestly and I'm in the camp I just don't need one more law. I know most of you disagree with me.

What I think would make more difference is if they took some of the money spent pro/con a bunch of laws and put it into education. In this case I think some GD parenting classes during pregnancy might help more, or anger management for parents, or support services for families struggling with anger issues.

I think just making a law will not achieve what I would hope to see, which is less spanking and better family life overall for the kids. I think it is a social problem with many factors contributing.

Of course I always tend to be education not legislation. I just tend to be antigovernment intervention unless they want to put their money where their laws are. I often disagree with many of our leaders where our tax dollars should go.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaMT*
Of course I always tend to be education not legislation. I just tend to be antigovernment intervention unless they want to put their money where their laws are. I often disagree with many of our leaders where our tax dollars should go.

tanya, I totally agree with education not legislation. I think a lot of us do, even those who are in favor of a no-spanking law. We agree that more education is *ideal* and much much more effective, but what do we have half a chance of actually achieving in reality? How would we agree on a "curriculum" for discipline education?

Isn't it simpler to just say "Our society believes hitting is wrong, therefore all hitting is illegal" ??

I don't think that's an overbearing law. I have definite libertarian leanings, but this is one law I'll take.


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## TanyaMT (Dec 17, 2003)

Amy, in regard to agreeing on a curriculum, I don't think we would need to. There are a lot of styles still under the gentle discipline and respect for your child framework. I just got some kind of kit given to me at the midwife put out by the state of California for new parents (I'm 31 weeks pregnant). It has 6 videos and a bunch of brochures, etc., on a bunch of topics from "discipline" (haven't watched it yet, hope it is decent) to early reading and education, etc. That was sort of the type of thing I was thinking of in terms of education, and I feel it should be covered while pregnant because some people start "disciplining" their children in the newborn stage (!!) so need the info immediately.

I would just rather the focus be there than on legislation, but I think we all here can agree on the basic goal of no hitting. Now we just need to get there as a society and that is going to take a lot of work from all different approaches, definitely more than one, to reach everyone.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

I guess my point is - do you think there should be a law againt assaulting other people? If so, why not children? That's it.


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## TanyaMT (Dec 17, 2003)

No, I don't think there should be a law. I think our courts are bogged down already. If we did have such a law I think it should include children, yes. Again though I think it is better dealt with by other means so I do not support legislation for it.

Edited to add after pondering while making brownies: As I thought more on why I am so against this legislation, I guess it does come down to interference legally in parenting. In this case, it probably would be for the good of the child certainly (unless people were wrongly accused, etc), but I just don't want lawmakers in my parenting. It came down to my thinking about why they want to do this -- to protect the child. Great goal. But if we use that goal what other laws will appear that are very much against my parenting style? Mandatory vaccinations? The majority of the population of the US probably does believe those are to protect the child. So should there be a law that all parents must vaccinate or be prosecuted? We already have laws that we need to send our children to school because the belief is it to protect the children. That sometimes puts all kinds of legal problems on homeschoolers (homeschooling is legal but there are more roadblocks and regluations than I believe there should be). Again, the reason for the law is for the good of the child but the implications are that it isn't always and is against my parenting style (I homeschool).

I just do not want lawmakers or even the "majority" involved in my parenting. My parenting is my decision. Yes, I happen to agree spanking is wrong. But what about the next law that the majority or the lawmakers think is "wrong" and harmful and I disagree? So I guess I agree with the person on the slippery slope argument. I have zero confidence in our lawmakers to determine how I should raise my children.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaMT*
No, I don't think there should be a law. I think our courts are bogged down already. If we did have such a law I think it should include children, yes. Again though I think it is better dealt with by other means so I do not support legislation for it.


But there IS a law against assault, in every inch of every state, hitting is illegal, UNLESS the victim is a child, in which case we can call it discipline and it's ok.


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

Did you watch the video on there?







Its terrible.


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## TanyaMT (Dec 17, 2003)

To what extent on the adult assault? Leave a bruise? ER visit? Provable injury? I think social services/child protective services covers that one and will take your child so that part is covered (inadequately but it's already there).


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Gosh, I could be mistaken, but I think I can press charges against anyone who hauls off and hits me whether it leaves a mark or not. Of course I don't mean to say every person who ever gets hit should press charges, but I do think everyone deserves legal protection against it, particularly members of vulnerable groups - minorities, the elderly, the poor, children.

Just as you could find better ways to reduce spanking, and I'd agree with them, can you agree that there are better ways of reducing the clogged judicial system than denying children protection from assault?


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *benjalo*
Gosh, I could be mistaken, but I think I can press charges against anyone who hauls off and hits me whether it leaves a mark or not. Of course I don't mean to say every person who ever gets hit should press charges, but I do think everyone deserves legal protection against it, particularly members of vulnerable groups - minorities, the elderly, the poor, children.

Yep, you can. You can press charges against a person even if they don't hit you - they just have to intentionally make unsolicited contact with you.


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