# What do you put in the place of "good Job"?



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

i was watching my friends 2yo and 7yo tonight and we were coloring. and when they were all done all i could think to say is good job.

i really want to work on saying something else. i grew up in a house where 'good job' was said a lot. i dont think its a bad thing, but i do think its part of why i can boost my own 'good job' button. i always look for praise. i really look to others to say 'good job' TO ME. i have a hard time just knowing or feeling good about what i did. its something i am working on, but i think its in part to how i was raised...

how or what can be said in place of that? with the 7yo i would say things like "how does it make you feel to color such a wonderful pic", but she is 7 and can express herself.

with the 2yo i dont know what to say other then "good Job". then he says over and over "good job, good job, good job. i do good job".

while i dont think "good Job" is bad. i just want to get into the habit now of not saying it so much. i watch them quite a bit. i have take so much i have learned here and put it to good use with them. almost all of it works like a charm!!! so thanks mamas!

really how bad is good job? what can i put in place of that for a 2yo? what more can i say to the 7yo? am i just crazy and good job is just fine?

any and all advice is much wanted!


----------



## SpiderMum (Sep 13, 2008)

"You did it!" works well when you can't think of anything better to say.
"I see that you colored a picture!" or similar statements of fact. You're still showing your interest without judging it.
"Did you have fun?" or other questions related to what's going on. Again, interest without judgment.

It doesn't take too long before you stop saying Good Job and the alternatives take over. I'm like you...I think I look for approval all the time because of how I was raised. I can't just enjoy my work...I need someone to praise it.







I hate it!


----------



## Theia (Oct 30, 2007)

Alfie Kohn touches on this in Unconditional Parenting. I imagine he goes deeper into it in Punished By Rewards but I've not read that one.

Quote:

"You did it!" works well when you can't think of anything better to say.
"I see that you colored a picture!" or similar statements of fact. You're still showing your interest without judging it.
"Did you have fun?" or other questions related to what's going on. Again, interest without judgment.

It doesn't take too long before you stop saying Good Job and the alternatives take over. I'm like you...I think I look for approval all the time because of how I was raised. I can't just enjoy my work...I need someone to praise it. I hate it!
These are good suggestions. I do this with my toddler. And she's right, once you get started on those types of behaviors with the intention of continuing the 'good jobs' become less.


----------



## snarky (Nov 8, 2006)

You can often say "Thank you for doing X" instead of good job. This is less appropriate for colouring but more appropriate for chores, getting dressed, picking up, etc.


----------



## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

For drawings, once we've discussed everything dc want to, I say, "Thank you for showing me your drawing. I love seeing the development of (that character, your ornamentation, etc...)." But even with our 2 yr old, when he shows me a drawing, I treat him and his drawing with interest and respect, so given my interests as well, I ask him questions like, "Did you draw this line very fast?" To which he'll likely say yes because his drawings are about his physical experience in drawing them right now. Then I'll confirm, "I thought so. It's dark and straight!"

I ask him questions about his choice of instrument: "Did you use a pencil for this?" "What would happen if you tried that with a marker/crayon/pen/etc...?"

I talk in depth about the drawings of the others because they are drawing for content and accuracy right now, to differing degrees and with different interests- for story-telling, character development for their stories, interactive drawing stories, diagramming various natural phenomena- weather patterns, parts of the earth, animals- habitat, anatomy, habits, elaborately designed ornamentation, etc....

My eldest wants artistic critique, so I give him that. I was an artist once...

Anyway, I just talk to my children with the same level of consideration and respect as I would an adult I loved and respected. They are competent and don't need the 'little' or abridged version of communication, imo.

And as pp have already written, because I don't use overt or specific praise, I am just more inclined to openly talk to my dc as opposed to evaluate them. So, I mean that I don't say anything to replace 'good job' because that sort of evaluation isn't in my vocabulary to begin with.

They receive my encouragement in myriad ways, so not praising doesn't mean not showing excitement or interest. I jump up and down too, and exclaim with complete sincerity, "Oh, sweetie! That's just _beautiful_!!! Keep doing that!!!" which is an evaluation, but I'm including it here because sometimes something is just so exciting that even a freethinker like me cannot help but do it.







Usually I still express what I see or feel and there are lots of hugs and shoulder pats too, that go with the response. I am not robotic without 'good job'.

I would express my excitement the same way to an adult, but I wouldn't even think of saying, 'good job' to anyone- child or adult.

I cannot stand being told, 'good job' and my dc don't like it either. We had to discuss this specifically last year because a friend was saying it incessantly to my dc, and they were shutting down and avoiding my friend. We had never discussed it with them at all ever; they just felt disrespected because they had not been under such constant scrutiny before, even if it seemed positive to my friend.

So, we decided to tell our boys that they are free to ask our friend to just speak to them the way she would to an adult. Our ds2, then 4 yrs old, did! I was surprised that she so quickly understood his issue, but she did and asked him if he would like her just to say 'thank you' instead, and he replied emphatically, "YES!" She had told him, "Good job!" for bringing her the shoes she just finished asking him to give to her.







Obviously it is an automatic response for her, but in reality, it is absurd to evaluate his 'job' of bringing shoes to her according to her request. "Thank you' is the culturally appropriate response to when someone obliges a request.

The issue I have and that Kohn and others have expressed, with praise, is that it removes the child's place to evaluate him/herself, and amongst other results, removes the intrinsic value of their work or accomplishment by presuming it requires praise to give it value. It is also a barrier to open conversation. How often do you love to engage in open dialogue with someone who responds with evaluations of everything you present? It's tedious at best and demeaning at the other end, imo. Children have the same response, ime.

My dh and other friends didn't believe me until I asked them to watch how much conversation they have with their/our dc after they've stated their evaluation of 'good job.' They were astonished to discover that it's the conversation stopper, and if it was the first thing expressed, it's the only thing expressed. Children shut down- even talkative ones and even dc who have been raised without it can be shut down once they realise they are being evaluated. Even my 26 month old is aware of this. It's so common that we have lots of opportunities to observe the dynamics of this sort of interaction.

If you are unsure of its effect, stop doing it for a while so dc can acclimate to more open conversation, and then add a 'good job' here and there and observe.


----------



## Super_mommy (Nov 13, 2009)

I think "Well Done" would also be perfect..


----------



## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

We use 'well done'.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

You did it! is good. Statements of fact about what was done, descriptions of what you like, as in, "I like the flower and butterfly over here." The thing is to not evaluate so much, but rather to describe or talk about how we feel instead of how the child is. I think "well done" and "good job" are basically the same thing.


----------



## 4Blessings (Feb 27, 2008)

I've had this list hanging on my fridge for 9 years now!









http://www.cta.org/community/family/...+Very+Good.htm


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Another thing I've read is that it is much better to talk about effort than the result. "It looks like you worked really hard on that!" is really empowering to a child.


----------



## Icehockey18 (Oct 24, 2009)

There is some very good insight here, I really like the advice. I am curious also how to respond to children without a 'conversation stoppper' like 'good job'. My dss is 5 and his mother usually uses 'that makes mommy proud' or 'thank you for doing X that makes mommy happy'... And that got me thinking.... That can't be too healthy for dss, he is basing his actions on how they make others 'feel'. And it showed when, in a soccer game, we watched him punch a kid, looked around, and continue playing. When dh mentioned he saw it dss proudly said that coach and mommy didn't, as if that made it OK....
Now, I could be wrong on this, so someone correct me if I am, but constantly saying how dc actions make you feel doesn't seem right. I would like to know because 1) I would like to use this with dss and 2) dh and I have ds (7 mo) and we are always wanting to learn and do the best for him, as all parents do....


----------



## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Icehockey18* 
There is some very good insight here, I really like the advice. I am curious also how to respond to children without a 'conversation stoppper' like 'good job'. My dss is 5 and his mother usually uses 'that makes mommy proud' or 'thank you for doing X that makes mommy happy'... And that got me thinking.... That can't be too healthy for dss, he is basing his actions on how they make others 'feel'. And it showed when, in a soccer game, we watched him punch a kid, looked around, and continue playing. When dh mentioned he saw it dss proudly said that coach and mommy didn't, as if that made it OK....
Now, I could be wrong on this, so someone correct me if I am, but constantly saying how dc actions make you feel doesn't seem right. I would like to know because 1) I would like to use this with dss and 2) dh and I have ds (7 mo) and we are always wanting to learn and do the best for him, as all parents do....

You hit the nail on the head. When their motivation begins to come from outside of them, look out! 

Sometimes silence or a smile is just the thing. I understand how this can be hard if you've already been praising a lot and your child LOOKS for it because he's used to it. But to anyone just starting out, I'd say keep as quiet as you can.

I practice what I preach as much as possible, but it's hard. My child is a prolific artist who does extraordinary work (at age 6) (he's on the potty right now drawing a glockenspiel), and he's never been instructed (we are all artists; it's genetic and being a homeschooler he's surrounded by it all day). And believe me I want to jump up and down and wave my arms when I see some of the stuff he comes up with. But I zip my lip while he's working on it. His motivations are internal and he is self-directed. The other night he was up at 11:30 pm and I asked when he planned on going to bed. He sat there in bed, in the dark, with his miner's light on his head and a sketch pad in his lap, drawing in detail every member of the percussion family of instruments.

He shows drawings to me and frankly I long ago ceased banning "that's great" from my reaction because heck, it IS great. But I am not trying to encourage him (i.e. get him to DO something)...my praise is my honest reaction. It's hard to keep it in check. But I also know that he is EXTREMELY internally motivated and self-directed. So if I just stand back and keep my mouth shut, he will do great things regardless of my opinions of them.


----------



## ChocolateNummies (Apr 9, 2007)

Some examples I use.

For artwork and such:
I love it! Tell me about it.
Wow, you put a lot thought into that.
You paid a lot of attention to detail.
What made you choose those colors?
How interesting, I wouldn't have thought to do it that way.
sometimes I just describe the picture - Look at that. I see a purple elephant and a blue flower, etc.

For chores and stuff:
Thank you. (plus perhaps one of the following)
I really enjoyed your help.
That made my work go faster.
You stuck with it to the end.
Oh goody, now the house is clean and we can play.
You/we made fast work of that.
That showed a lot of responsibility/caring/perseverance/hard work.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I like to say something specific about the picture, "I see that you used red, yellow, and orange," or make a totally open statement like "tell me about your picture." When my kids were little they enjoyed talking about what they had done, even it when it just looked like big splashes of color.

In a similar vein, when they started in little activities like swim lessons, I tried to make neutral comments at the end like "it really looked like you had fun" rather than than telling them how good they did, how proud I was, etc.


----------



## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

For something like coloring, I think saying nothing at all is usually the best response. (Unless the kid is proudly showing you the picture and _asking_ for a response.) I don't want my kids to feel like I'm watching and judging every single thing they do, and that it's important for them to hear my opinions on all of it, even their coloring. I think it's fine to agree with the kid that his coloring is good - I don't even have a problem with saying, "Yeah, good job!" if you're just agreeing with your kid's own assessment. But offering an unsolicited comment, even a neutral one like, "I see you've colored a picture," can give the message that everything your kid does is really important to you, and that level of interest can feel intimidating.


----------



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

Thank you mamas. you all are so great to learn from! i am blessed to have found MDC before i have kids of my own!

can anyone think of other places to use this type of thing? i saw chores and artwork. and i LOVE all the suggestions!!!

i want this to become habit NOW!!!


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Maybe it's just my age, or maybe it's just my parents were more restrained, but I never heard "good job" as a kid and am annoyed when anyone says it now. There are a lot of substitutes depending on the situation -- describing it and saying how it makes you feel usually work. For chores "thanks for helping" is pretty much what I say.
I rarely received praise as a kid and have/had low self-esteem, probably because of the schools. I think my depressed mom was overwhelmed, too.


----------



## EricaDoula (Apr 23, 2009)

Here is my favorite fridge magnet!
101 Ways to Praise a Child!

WOW • WAY TO GO • SUPER • YOU'RE SPECIAL • OUTSTANDING • EXCELLENT •
GREAT• GOOD • NEAT • WELL DONE • REMARKABLE • I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT • I'M PROUD OF YOU • FANTASTIC • SUPER STAR • NICE WORK • LOOKING GOOD • YOU'RE ON TOP OF IT • BEAUTIFUL • NOW YOU'RE FLYING • YOU'RE CATCHING ON • NOW YOU'VE GOT IT • YOU'RE INCREDIBLE • BRAVO • YOU'RE FANTASTIC • HURRAY FOR YOU • YOU'RE ON TARGET • YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY • HOW NICE • HOW SMART • GOOD JOB • THAT'S INCREDIBLE • HOT DOG • DYNAMITE • YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL • YOU'RE UNIQUE • NOTHING CAN STOP YOU NOW • GOOD FOR YOU • I LIKE YOU YOU'RE A WINNER • REMARKABLE JOB • BEAUTIFUL WORK • SPECTACULAR • YOU'RE SPECTACULAR • YOU'RE DARLING • YOU'RE PRECIOUS • GREAT DISCOVERY • YOU'VE DISCOVERED THE SECRET • YOU FIGURED IT OUT • FANTASTIC JOB • HIP, HIP, HURRAY • BINGO • MAGNIFICENT • MARVELOUS • TERRIFIC • YOU'RE IMPORTANT • PHENOMENAL • YOU'RE SENSATIONAL • SUPER WORK • CREATIVE JOB • SUPER JOB • FANTASTIC JOB • EXCEPTIONAL PERFORMANCE • YOU'RE A REAL TROOPER • YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE • YOU ARE EXCITING • YOU LEARNED IT RIGHT • WHAT AN IMAGINATION •WHAT A GOOD LISTENER • YOU ARE FUN • YOU'RE GROWING UP • YOU TRIED HARD • YOU CARE • BEAUTIFUL SHARING • OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE • YOU'RE A GOOD FRIEND • I TRUST YOU • YOU'RE IMPORTANT • YOU MEAN A LOT TO ME • YOU MAKE ME HAPPY • YOU BELONG • YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND • YOU MAKE ME LAUGH • YOU BRIGHTEN MY DAY • I RESPECT YOU • YOU MEAN THE WORLD TO ME • THAT'S CORRECT • YOU'RE A JOY • YOU'RE A TREASURE • YOU'RE WONDERFUL • YOU'RE PERFECT • AWESOME • A+ JOB • YOU'RE A-OK MY BUDDY • YOU MADE MY DAY • THAT'S THE BEST • A BIG HUG • A BIG KISS • SAY I LOVE YOU!


----------



## bnhmama (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm a big believer that praise should be very specific. So if they are coloring, I'd say something like "Wow! It looks like you used a lot of red and purple! Oh and look at the blue circles!" I just pick something out from their picture and comment on it.


----------



## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Another thing I've read is that it is much better to talk about effort than the result. "It looks like you worked really hard on that!" is really empowering to a child.

My only issue with this is that....if someone said that to me....it doesn't mean I was successful, or the task was done well....it just means I worked hard on it. If I show people my artwork I like people to appreciate/critique the final product not go on about how hard it must have been and that it took a lot of effort....not being snarky...JMPOV


----------



## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

I typically say to DD (and did when she was little, too) something like: "You built a tower!" or "You colored a house!" and then ask her a couple of questions about what she's done. To me (and I hope to her) it showed that I was paying attention and engaged. "Good job" always struck me as the equivalent of "yeah, yeah, whatever."


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
My only issue with this is that....if someone said that to me....it doesn't mean I was successful, or the task was done well....it just means I worked hard on it. If I show people my artwork I like people to appreciate/critique the final product not go on about how hard it must have been and that it took a lot of effort....not being snarky...JMPOV

Well, that's kind of the whole point of not praising kids in that way (good job, etc), so that kids internally decide if what they've done is of value and don't feel the need to have their artwork and everything else judged by others to decide if it was worth their time. It's about helping kids become internally motivated rather than externally motivated.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Well, that's kind of the whole point of not praising kids in that way (good job, etc), so that kids internally decide if what they've done is of value and *don't feel the need to have their artwork and everything else judged by others*

In some ways, telling a child they did something "well" is like telling them they did it "poorly." In both cases, the parents first message is "I can judge what you do and decide it is good enough or not."

Getting away from constantly making judgements about everything our kids do is goal for some of us because we hope that by doing so, our kids will develop their own reason for what they do and make rather than focusing on our (and later other people's) approval.

I thing about switching to this style is that it takes more thought. You have to really look a the picture and find something to say about. It's more complex than just giving a standard parent stamp of approval like "good job."


----------



## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

I didn't read all the responses so I apologize if I'm repeating anything...

But I would say something like, "I love your choice of colors" or "That picture makes me feel so happy (or sad, or lonely, or energized, etc.)" or "Do you want to put it on the fridge"... something on that idea. I guess what I'm getting at is, kind of model an emotional response to it. As they get older you can start to shift it from YOUR reaction to THEIR reaction... "The picture makes me feel happy, how does it make you feel?" and later just, "How does that make you feel"... KWIM?


----------



## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

So here's a question: My little people always will ask: "Do you like it?" Now I am not sure if they want praise or if they just want an opinion. Is an opinion like praise? If you say you like what they have done, isn't that to them the same as praise? Then they will say...."Yes I like it but don't you like it too?" If you say that it is more important that THEY like it, will it make them think that you just don't want to say you don't like it after all?

Do any of you see where I am going with this question? I have absolutely NO idea how to answer this round of their questioning. It's very confusing and makes me want to say any way: "I really like your work. You did a good job on it."

What to do?


----------



## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

I haven't read all the responses.

I say "thank-you for" whatever if it is something that makes my life easier or talk about what I see and my own genuine feelings in relationship to whatever "Wow, I'm surprised that you can kick the ball that far! I didn't know you could do that." or "It really makes me happy to see how kind you are being to your little brother today. I can tell that you are trying so hard to be patient with him.


----------



## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Honestly I don't see a lot of the replies as being very different from "Good job!". "Well done" is the same thing. Unless it's a specific comment, I can't see anything to distinguish the phrases other than different phraseology. I also am amazed that so many children let the comments drop with some of these. Anytime I told my children "Look! You colored a cat!" they always looked at me like I was a moron stating the obvious.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
So here's a question: My little people always will ask: "Do you like it?" Now I am not sure if they want praise or if they just want an opinion. Is an opinion like praise? If you say you like what they have done, isn't that to them the same as praise? Then they will say...."Yes I like it but don't you like it too?"

What about telling them you like (since they seem to need to hear that) but then trying to pivot to more of a conversation. Something like, "I DO like you picture. I notice you've (insert specific comment). Tell me more about your picture/what you were thinking/etc."

I've been pondering this issue for over a decade (my oldest is 13). I think it is normal and even healthy for kids to want their parents to like what they've done. I also think there are times as kids get older that we parents WANT them to value our opinion on whether or not what they've done is good enough (such as grades in core subjects in middle school







).

However, it really isn't healthy for a child to need mommy to love everything they do. Ultimately, it not only makes their voice weak compared to our approval, it makes their voice weak compare to their peers approval. We can help them find their own voice and the joy in expressing themselves by taking a step back from passing judgement on everything.


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

If my children bring me something to look at because they want to share it I say something like oh that's what you have been doing... which bit do you like best?/Your man has massive eyes!/I like the blue you picked.

I don't think it is bad to give an opinion as well as state facts. Giving my children some praise gives them a little lift and I don't think that hurts at all.

When my dd won a 2nd place medal in her first gymnastics competition I couldn't help but praise her because she was bouncing about with joy. If I had said "I see you balanced well on the beam" that would have been a bit of a damp squib kwim?

She is the first of my children to do a competitive sport like this and it was quite off for us to see her perform and that she is obviously very good at what she was doing.

Never having your mum say anything glowing about what you do would make a kid a bit sad I think.


----------



## Hesperia (Sep 3, 2007)

I didn't read the comments, but I say...

Oh wow, tell me about it?
What is this?
I like the colours you chose.
How does this picture make you feel?
Did you enjoy that?
Would you like to hang it up, keep it, toss it, give it to someone?

Works well for me.


----------



## olien (Apr 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
For drawings, once we've discussed everything dc want to, I say, "Thank you for showing me your drawing. I love seeing the development of (that character, your ornamentation, etc...)." But even with our 2 yr old, when he shows me a drawing, I treat him and his drawing with interest and respect, so given my interests as well, I ask him questions like, "Did you draw this line very fast?" To which he'll likely say yes because his drawings are about his physical experience in drawing them right now. Then I'll confirm, "I thought so. It's dark and straight!"

I ask him questions about his choice of instrument: "Did you use a pencil for this?" "What would happen if you tried that with a marker/crayon/pen/etc...?"

I talk in depth about the drawings of the others because they are drawing for content and accuracy right now, to differing degrees and with different interests- for story-telling, character development for their stories, interactive drawing stories, diagramming various natural phenomena- weather patterns, parts of the earth, animals- habitat, anatomy, habits, elaborately designed ornamentation, etc....

My eldest wants artistic critique, so I give him that. I was an artist once...

Anyway, I just talk to my children with the same level of consideration and respect as I would an adult I loved and respected. They are competent and don't need the 'little' or abridged version of communication, imo.

And as pp have already written, because I don't use overt or specific praise, I am just more inclined to openly talk to my dc as opposed to evaluate them. So, I mean that I don't say anything to replace 'good job' because that sort of evaluation isn't in my vocabulary to begin with.

They receive my encouragement in myriad ways, so not praising doesn't mean not showing excitement or interest. I jump up and down too, and exclaim with complete sincerity, "Oh, sweetie! That's just _beautiful_!!! Keep doing that!!!" which is an evaluation, but I'm including it here because sometimes something is just so exciting that even a freethinker like me cannot help but do it.







Usually I still express what I see or feel and there are lots of hugs and shoulder pats too, that go with the response. I am not robotic without 'good job'.

I would express my excitement the same way to an adult, but I wouldn't even think of saying, 'good job' to anyone- child or adult.

I cannot stand being told, 'good job' and my dc don't like it either. We had to discuss this specifically last year because a friend was saying it incessantly to my dc, and they were shutting down and avoiding my friend. We had never discussed it with them at all ever; they just felt disrespected because they had not been under such constant scrutiny before, even if it seemed positive to my friend.

So, we decided to tell our boys that they are free to ask our friend to just speak to them the way she would to an adult. Our ds2, then 4 yrs old, did! I was surprised that she so quickly understood his issue, but she did and asked him if he would like her just to say 'thank you' instead, and he replied emphatically, "YES!" She had told him, "Good job!" for bringing her the shoes she just finished asking him to give to her.







Obviously it is an automatic response for her, but in reality, it is absurd to evaluate his 'job' of bringing shoes to her according to her request. "Thank you' is the culturally appropriate response to when someone obliges a request.

The issue I have and that Kohn and others have expressed, with praise, is that it removes the child's place to evaluate him/herself, and amongst other results, removes the intrinsic value of their work or accomplishment by presuming it requires praise to give it value. It is also a barrier to open conversation. How often do you love to engage in open dialogue with someone who responds with evaluations of everything you present? It's tedious at best and demeaning at the other end, imo. Children have the same response, ime.

My dh and other friends didn't believe me until I asked them to watch how much conversation they have with their/our dc after they've stated their evaluation of 'good job.' They were astonished to discover that it's the conversation stopper, and if it was the first thing expressed, it's the only thing expressed. Children shut down- even talkative ones and even dc who have been raised without it can be shut down once they realise they are being evaluated. Even my 26 month old is aware of this. It's so common that we have lots of opportunities to observe the dynamics of this sort of interaction.

If you are unsure of its effect, stop doing it for a while so dc can acclimate to more open conversation, and then add a 'good job' here and there and observe.

Wow! this is quite a response. It gives me a lot to think about as a first time mom with a little one just starting to do things on his own. Thanks!


----------



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
So here's a question: My little people always will ask: "Do you like it?" Now I am not sure if they want praise or if they just want an opinion. Is an opinion like praise? If you say you like what they have done, isn't that to them the same as praise? Then they will say...."Yes I like it but don't you like it too?" If you say that it is more important that THEY like it, will it make them think that you just don't want to say you don't like it after all?

Do any of you see where I am going with this question? I have absolutely NO idea how to answer this round of their questioning. It's very confusing and makes me want to say any way: "I really like your work. You did a good job on it."

What to do?

this is a great question!

Olien, i loved PreggieUBA2C response too









everyone has awesome info. i am loving this thread!


----------



## LVale (May 4, 2004)

Not to sound like a downer, but as a child I would have loved it if my Dad, said Good Job. (Disclaimer, my mother committed suicide on my 10th B.D.). I would work so hard at school, etc. If I got a low A on my report card, say a 92, he would always ask what could I have done different to get a 100. If I cleaned the kitchen, mopped the floor, it may have been in his opinion o.k., but he would ask, it would have been even nicer if I had waxed the floor. So I never got well done, or you did great, or you got all A's (even if they were low), it was always the question, What could you have done to make this, what ever it was better. Talk about a downer. I am not talking about constant praise, Just every once in a while, it would have been nice. And to this day, I am always trying to please people, and I am 48. I try to compliment people all the time. If someone takes the time of day to call me, I always thank them, and let them know it means alot to me that someone cares. So did I praise my kids, you bet I did! Guess what, they are great adults now, and they always say, that we always made them feel loved, and special.


----------



## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LVale* 
Not to sound like a downer, but as a child I would have loved it if my Dad, said Good Job. (Disclaimer, my mother committed suicide on my 10th B.D.). I would work so hard at school, etc. If I got a low A on my report card, say a 92, he would always ask what could I have done different to get a 100. If I cleaned the kitchen, mopped the floor, it may have been in his opinion o.k., but he would ask, it would have been even nicer if I had waxed the floor. So I never got well done, or you did great, or you got all A's (even if they were low), it was always the question, What could you have done to make this, what ever it was better. Talk about a downer. I am not talking about constant praise, Just every once in a while, it would have been nice. And to this day, I am always trying to please people, and I am 48. I try to compliment people all the time. If someone takes the time of day to call me, I always thank them, and let them know it means alot to me that someone cares. So did I praise my kids, you bet I did! Guess what, they are great adults now, and they always say, that we always made them feel loved, and special.

I'm sorry about your mom. That's rough. I never really got the questions like that. I also didn't get the "good job" thing either. Any "praise" I got came in the form of things like "huh, I never thought you'd be any good at art but that's not too bad". Thanks for your confidence in me? Like you, I'm 40 yrs old and am *just now* getting away from the constant need to please everyone, to hear a scrap of praise telling me I did well and to stop second guessing my strengths. I know for fact this has impacted a lot of areas in my life including my career and past relationships. I guess that's why I dispise Alfie Kohn so much because from my view of things, it would have been far more beneficial to my non-existent self esteem growing up to get that "good job" sprinkled in there once in a while than to be raised in such a humble house.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Well your situation wasn't praise vs. appreciaton worded in other ways, it was praise vs no appreciation or positive comments at all. In a home with a serious problem to overcome.







I'm sure "good job" would have been preferable to what your father did.


----------



## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I make a comment about what they actually did. (ie. "A purple sky... how cool!")

As my son gets older (he just turned 7), he honestly does just want to hear "Well done!" sometimes (he told me.)


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovebug* 
really how bad is good job? what can i put in place of that for a 2yo? what more can i say to the 7yo? am i just crazy and good job is just fine?

any and all advice is much wanted!

I say "good effort". I say "wow, you worked really hard on that!" (only if they did!). if they ask me "do you like it", I usually say "yes, I can see that you worked really hard on that".

I reward efforts.

Rewarding someone for the end results is like rewarding them for being smart... or rewarding them for being pretty... or rewarding them for being tall... Those are all traits that aren't under our control!

I don't give rewards for the end result, because it's irrelevant. What matters is the work that was put into it, and whether or not they did THEIR best.


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Proud2BeAnAmerican* 
I've had this list hanging on my fridge for 9 years now!









http://www.cta.org/community/family/...+Very+Good.htm

I didn't read the list, but from what I did read, 75% of them I wouldn't use in my vocabulary with my children, because most of them are still rewarding end results instead of rewarding efforts.


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
, "I like the flower and butterfly over here."

If you express praise over a particular part of the work, aren't you making it more likely that the next time DD or DS draws a picture, that they will include a flower or a butterfly? Mommy likes flowers and butterflies, so that's what I am going to draw. It may stifle their creativity to think of something different to draw next time.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kivgaen* 
If you express praise over a particular part of the work, aren't you making it more likely that the next time DD or DS draws a picture, that they will include a flower or a butterfly? Mommy likes flowers and butterflies, so that's what I am going to draw. It may stifle their creativity to think of something different to draw next time.

It hasn't for my dd, but if it did I would certainly stop doing that and do something else.


----------



## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Here are a few I use

1) Praising effort -- Wow, you really thought hard about what to include in that essay!

2) Praising the values behind the action -- I really admired the way you thought about what your Grandma would like when making that card for her. You've included so many of her favorite things!

3) Making a comment that shows that you really paid attention to what they've done. "You used every single block in the block corner, what a complicated building. Tell me what you were thinking when you built it!" or "Hmmm, you used such bright colors here in the front, but you colored more gently in the background -- it really looks like that some days, especially in the morning before the fog drifts away". I think this is the difference between "You balanced really well on the beam." and "The transition from your round off to your handspring was soo smooth, I can tell you've really been practicing that move.". The second carries the message that their performance captivated you and you absorbed every minute of it.

4) Making a connection to their feelings. "I can tell how proud you feel from the smile on your face!" or "A blue ribbon, exactly what you were aiming for". (if they told you on the way in, I hope I win a blue ribbon).

Having said that, if I want my child to do a specific task, and he does it, I don't have a problem with "good job" or another comment that implies "yes, that's what I wanted". If I want my child to clear his plate after dinner, and one day he does it without reminders, then I'm going to let him know that I like that. I am going to make a judgement call. I'm not worried about increasing his effort or investment in plate clearing. I'm not worried that I'll stifle his creativity and that from now on he'll clear his plate exactly the same way every time. Similarly in the classroom, if it's a task with a clear right and wrong, I'll give feedback that they did in fact do it the right way (e.g. "Thanks for putting your coat away before you came to circle. Or "You remembered to check the sign for every problem. Good job!"). I try and vary what I say so it's not a broken record of "good job", "good job", but I do give feedback that confirms that they met my expectation.


----------



## lonegirl (Oct 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kivgaen* 
If you express praise over a particular part of the work, aren't you making it more likely that the next time DD or DS draws a picture, that they will include a flower or a butterfly? Mommy likes flowers and butterflies, so that's what I am going to draw. It may stifle their creativity to think of something different to draw next time.

But then if you don't express admiration for some part of it...then are they not just as likely to think "gee, I guess mom doesn't like my pictures...I don't think I will make any more"


----------



## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

For my own kids I usually say Right on! or That is too cool! or Awesome or You totally Rock! Woo-hoo! or Yes! Give high 5's etc...

For my little guys (daycare kids) I usually put on a huge show as in " OH. MY. GOSH. THAT IS THE MOST INCREDIBLE PICTURE I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE! DID YOU DO THAT? NOOOOOO, YOU COULDN'T HAVE. WHAT!? YOU DID? YOU ARE SO AWESOME!! at which point they'll usually hold up another one or someone else will, then it's "WHAT?! ANOTHER ONE?! THIS IS CRAZY! YOU (GUYS) ARE THE WORLD'S BEST COLORERS (BUILDERS/CLEANER UPPERS, ETC) and so on....while I'm saying (yelling) this I am usually waving my arms around and such. ( I'm kind of over the top with kids : )
They get a big kick out of it!


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
(e.g. "Thanks for putting your coat away before you came to circle. Or "You remembered to check the sign for every problem. Good job!"

That's an example of a tag. It's a method recommended by Bailey in "Easy to Love, difficult to discipline" for occasional use. You're providing a judgment, but you're also explaining why you have that opinion.

Her suggested pattern is observation, comment, optional tag. Such as "you picked up the blocks, now they'll be easy to find when we want to play with them, (good work!)" And observation is something that you could take a picture of with a camera.

I get the heebie-jeebies when people say things like "good sharing" "good choice" and such. Keep feeling like they're going to say "good breathing" or "good blinking!" (Which would be totally okay to say to a child who had to work at those.)


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Moved to Gentle Discipline


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kivgaen* 
If you express praise over a particular part of the work, aren't you making it more likely that the next time DD or DS draws a picture, that they will include a flower or a butterfly? Mommy likes flowers and butterflies, so that's what I am going to draw. It may stifle their creativity to think of something different to draw next time.

I think you underestimate children's imaginations and the reasons why they are drawn to art and creativity.

My dd is almost 7 and she doesn't draw for me because she draws for herself. She is driven by a need to make marks on paper to express her feelings in words and pictures, copy what she sees around her and also record her flights of fantasy.

The only reason she includes me is because she herself thinks her pictures are so cool that I too will think they are. I'm not validating her: I am sharing her joy.

Have a look at Ken Robinson here. It isn't about praise but it is about creativity.

FTR I have never said good job in my life. It isn't something we say in the UK!


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Also, expressing what you like is a bit different than an overall definitive statement of what is good and bad. "I like . . ." isn't quite the same as "You are . . " There's a difference in subjectivity vs. objectivity. Kids dont' get that what you say is really just what you like or think. If you say something IS good then they take that literally. If you simply say you like something, they take that literally as well.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LVale* 
Not to sound like a downer, but as a child I would have loved it if my Dad, said Good Job. (Disclaimer, my mother committed suicide on my 10th B.D.). I would work so hard at school, etc. If I got a low A on my report card, say a 92, he would always ask what could I have done different to get a 100.











I'm sorry. My dad and yours would have gotten along GREAT!









Although I've tried to dial down the constant stream of "good job," I do tell my kids how proud I am of them, let them know they things I think they do exceptionally well, and I always let them know that their best is good enough.

There are so many more complex issues with praise/feedback with our kids beyond what to say about preschool art work. As they get older and get grades that aren't always perfect or play in sports where they don't win, new issues come up. Is the message that we want to teach our kids that things are only worth doing if they do them well? Aren't some things worth doing even if you aren't the best? Don't we want to teach them to do their best even when the outcome isn't going to be as good as someone else's?

I don't think a constant stream of praise is good for kids BUT:

I tell my kids "thank you" for helping around the house. I really appreciate their help and I let them know it.

I tell them I am proud of their grades and the work they represent. We encourage them to get all A and B, but don't pay or reward or make any sort of difference between As and Bs. We don't want to encourage perfectionism. We'd really like them to enjoying learning for its own sake and not be too hung up on grades. We celebrate the end of term by going out to eat and talking about how well they did, specific projects they did, etc.

We don't make a big deal out of looks at our house, but I do tell my kids that they are beautiful, I like their hair, a particular
color looks good on them, etc.
I don't want my kids to be praise junkies but I do tell them, in lots of different ways, how amazing and wonderful they are.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
But then if you don't express admiration for some part of it...then are they not just as likely to think "gee, I guess mom doesn't like my pictures...I don't think I will make any more"

Ultimately, it would be nice if they made pictures because they enjoy making pictures, not because mommy likes their pictures.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Also, expressing what you like is a bit different than an overall definitive statement of what is good and bad. "I like . . ." isn't quite the same as "You are . . " There's a difference in subjectivity vs. objectivity. Kids dont' get that what you say is really just what you like or think. If you say something IS good then they take that literally. If you simply say you like something, they take that literally as well.

agreed.

The thing I'll add is that taking more time to really look at what've they done and say something specific about seems like a safe way to go. I think showing genuine euthusism and wonder at how amazing our kids are is good for them, but just ryhming off a phrase like "good job" doesn't really give them much.


----------



## sgmom (Mar 5, 2009)

I like to show how what they did affected either how I feel about it ("I really love how you used those colors on your picture! I like the colors on the flowers the best because it makes the house stand out more, and I really like the house. What made you decide to color the roof that color?"), or how it would affect themselves ("Wow! Look at how clean your room is now! And now it will be easier to find things. Did you find anything interesting while you were cleaning? Maybe something you thought you lost?")

I also like to say things like "Thank you very much for helping me carry my groceries inside (even if it's just a couple apples). Was it heavy to carry?", and maybe I'll offer to help them with something.

But if you're looking to praise, saying "Thank you for your help! You did a great job helping me clean my floors today" then showing them the efforts of their work ("See how it's all shiny now?"), is a better way of saying "You're a great helper!", and is more rewarding to the child than being told they just did a "good job". Being a great helper might be true right now, but the next time they might not be such a great help at all, and "good job" is sort of (at least to me) like you're looking for them to do it FOR YOU.

Slightly OT (but along the same method)... My daughter sometimes doesn't want to drink her water, and I'll sometimes ask "Can you please take a sip for me?"... And I CRINGE EVERY SINGLE TIME I say it. What do I care if she takes a sip for ME? What I DO care about is that she remains well hydrated. So I often have to stop and think about how I want to ask her to please drink the water. So I'll stop myself and ask instead "You must be thirsty. You haven't had much to drink today. Can you take just a small sip and then you can have some more later?"

I hate "good job". I really do.


----------



## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

I wanted to add a few things (since I already wrote a novella on the first page







).

The first is that I didn't receive any praise as a child, but that wasn't what my parents did to damage my self-esteem. That part made a lot of sense because I did learn to assess my own efforts and results. They didn't show any appreciation for me or my work, though, which is where things went wrong for my self esteem. I show a lot of appreciation for my dc and their work without praise. Praise does not equal appreciation and neither does appreciation equal praise, imo.

I find it degrading and emetic when others think they are being positive toward me when they exclaim praise phrases: "Wow, Good job on such and such!" Part of me is wondering why they seem so surprised (did they expect less?) and the other part wonders why they think I've invited them to evaluate what I've already deemed worth sharing as if I were needing their approval. I find that offensive.

What is more offensive to me is and was as a child, when adults have praised my effort as though they know what effort I put in. Most of my life I have not had the resources to actually do anything to my potential, and in spite of that have accomplished much more than my 'peers' in schools and others aspects of my life, so when I am forced to work in very substandard and otherwise poor conditions and manage to still accomplish something within that framework, praise for my efforts is insulting.

I realise this is very personal, but for me, I don't either have the need to exert much effort or if I wanted to, I don't have what I need to do so. I am a very competent person, and like my dc, if someone thinks that I must have put a lot of effort into something completely mundane to me, then I am insulted. Quietly, mind you, but still. I would much prefer that when I present something to someone, they choose to tell me that they appreciate it or what interests them about it, and if nothing, then say nothing, other than maybe 'thank you.'

I submitted a business proposal a few years ago, and it was excruciating to sit through the meeting wherein everyone ooo'd and aaahh'd over how professional and excellent it was, along with a huge amount of surprise. I knew a few of the people personally and they went on for a week or two about how surprised they were that I could do something like that. I spent an afternoon putting together a proposal that incorporated years worth of learning and understanding. At that point, little effort was required because I had the competence to accomplish it with ease, like most things I do when I'm not hindered. And how had my abilities escaped their attention for so long? This was a very low expression of my abilities and yet there they were lauding me as though I'd completely outdone myself.









I always think of this when I talk about my dc's efforts. I will talk about their efforts when I know what they've done and they've expressed their own evaluations of their efforts. I don't assume that they've worked really hard on something just because of what I see they've accomplished. What if they did it in a minute or two and put little effort in and I assume they are less capable by assuming a huge amount of effort?

Sorry for the convolutions; I'm making a huge dinner and typing between trips to the stove, counter and fridge and talking with each of my dc while I also help dh deal with a frozen and clogged pipe...


----------



## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies, but here goes:

1.) Saying "Good job" is not *inherently wrong*. The problem is that it becomes meaningless and external if it's just tossed about. If you say "Good job!" at the end of a conversation with your child after you two discuss working hard, using creativity, perseverence and how they feel about it themselves, AND if you truly think it is exceptional, "Good job" is appropriate. Most of the time though, it is not used that way.

2.) Things like "Well done!" is the same thing.

3.) I often start out with some variation of "Look at THAT!" ("Look at that picture! Wow!"). It's now open for a two way street. I can make note of things I find particularly interesting ("All that purple!" or "Is this you in the house?") or he can tell me ("I made it this afternoon." or "Its you and Daddy.").


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lonegirl* 
But then if you don't express admiration for some part of it...then are they not just as likely to think "gee, I guess mom doesn't like my pictures...I don't think I will make any more"

I didn't say don't express admiration. I said admire their efforts. "Yes, I like your picture, I know you worked very hard on it!"


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I think you underestimate children's imaginations and the reasons why they are drawn to art and creativity.

My comments are only based on what my personal experience has been. My DS really struggled in JK and SK because his fine motor skills were late to develop. He got so frustrated with trying to stay "in the lines", or to draw pictures of things that were realistic looking, that he just stopped colouring all together, and it became a real battle for him in school.

It wasn't until I started praising his efforts in his work that I started to see him relaxing a bit about the whole subject. When he knew that mommy and daddy would love his work if he worked really hard on it, no matter what it looked like in the end, then he was more accepting of the fact that he wasn't yet able to stay in the lines or to draw the objects accurately.

I think perhaps you may be underestimating the damaging effects that praise of results can have on children of an impressionable age.


----------



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kivgaen* 
I didn't say don't express admiration. I said admire their efforts. "Yes, I like your picture, I know you worked very hard on it!"

i like how you put that!


----------



## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kivgaen* 

I think perhaps you may be underestimating the damaging effects that praise of results can have on children of an impressionable age.

I think the difference is that I have chosen not to send my 7yo to school.


----------



## Kivgaen (Dec 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I think the difference is that I have chosen not to send my 7yo to school.

Perhaps we are not so different. I chose to put mine in a different school


----------



## joanna0707 (Jan 2, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Have a look at Ken Robinson here. It isn't about praise but it is about creativity.


this is great, really worth watching

*orangefoot* did you read any of Ken Robinson's books?


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *olien* 
Wow! this is quite a response.











It was that post that prompted me to request that this thread be moved into GD so the parenting method hobbyists could enjoy it.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LVale* 
Not to sound like a downer, but as a child I would have loved it if my Dad, said Good Job. (Disclaimer, my mother committed suicide on my 10th B.D.). I would work so hard at school, etc. If I got a low A on my report card, say a 92, he would always ask what could I have done different to get a 100. If I cleaned the kitchen, mopped the floor, it may have been in his opinion o.k., but he would ask, it would have been even nicer if I had waxed the floor. So I never got well done, or you did great, or you got all A's (even if they were low), it was always the question, What could you have done to make this, what ever it was better. Talk about a downer. I am not talking about constant praise, Just every once in a while, it would have been nice. And to this day, I am always trying to please people, and I am 48. I try to compliment people all the time. If someone takes the time of day to call me, I always thank them, and let them know it means alot to me that someone cares. So did I praise my kids, you bet I did! Guess what, they are great adults now, and they always say, that we always made them feel loved, and special.

See part of the problem with "Good Job!" is that it can be the passive-agressive form of dismissing the child. Your father was agressive, he looked for something you didn't do instead of showing an interest in what you did do. What can happen with "good job" is that it can be used as a way to avoid having to be interested in what the child has done.

It's not abusive, the way your father was, but it's also not ideal.


----------



## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
What can happen with "good job" is that it can be used as a way to avoid having to be interested in what the child has done.

It can also be a way of showing _too much_ interest in what your child has done. Saying "good job" for every little thing gives the message that you're actually noticing whether or not the child does a "good job" coloring or going down the slide or putting a puzzle together, and that you care about it enough that you might be disappointed if she did a bad job. It can be nice to get some appreciation for a drawing you're pleased with, but sometimes it's nice to just draw for fun without worrying about whether anyone thinks you've done a good job.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil* 
It can also be a way of showing _too much_ interest in what your child has done. Saying "good job" for every little thing gives the message that you're actually noticing whether or not the child does a "good job" coloring or going down the slide or putting a puzzle together, and that you care about it enough that you might be disappointed if she did a bad job. It can be nice to get some appreciation for a drawing you're pleased with, but sometimes it's nice to just draw for fun without worrying about whether anyone thinks you've done a good job.

Thank you!


----------

