# Sex in the family bed.



## matthia

nak

Alright. I guess I'm looking for your stories about making this work.

Here's the deal: first baby, 7mos, cosleeps.

I love it. I thought dh did too. He does understand and appreciate it, but it came out last night that he is really uncomfortable having sex with the baby in the bed with us.

Ok, ds sleeps really well at night. We've never been interrupted. We have had sex a handful of times in the living room too.

I am apparantly a very rare new mama who still has a really active libido ( I blame it on all that oxytocin!). i asked dh to take over actively maintaining our sex life a fewmonths ago because while I still want to have sex, i am often too preoccupied with the baby to really think about it. He agreed but then nothing really changed. It has made me grumpy and caused a bit of tension between us.

so since having baby in bed is causing problems, we need a change.

Complication: I am not interested in moving baby to his own room. That doesn't work for me. I would prefer him on a matress "sidecarred" to our bed. DH doesn't think this is much different than just having him in our bed. I think it is, a bit. We'd have a ton more room and wouldn't have to worry about any....bouncing.

So: What do you think? For those of you with a twin "sidecarred", did it help with your sex life? If you used a crib matress on the floor (our bed is a queen and box spring on the floor) did that work for you? I am worried about moving ds at night (ie, from his bed to ours for nursing and back) or getting WAY worse sleep because I am trying to sleep with him on a crib matress! I feel like with a twin, I could shuffle over and sleep with ds if I need to with relative ease.

Or, was this just never an issue with you. Did you give up sex in bed? Were you never comfortable dtd in front of your babies?

I feel like I will be comfortable dtd near a sleeping baby for some time yet but I know it won't be forever... I do plan on having another good talk with dh tonight about what we both expect and how things do have to change with the little one. I want him to be comfortable, but I also need to be.


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## mommato5

Pack n play!


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## PiggyPiggyOinkOink

Yeah pack n play for the baby or find a different spot for the loving.


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## goinggreengirl

We did it a few times in bed with DS sleeping but it did feel weird to both of us. SO, we've pretty much moved to the floor. We have a crib side carred but DS wakes up as soon as I set him on that so it's mainly there to keep him rolling out of our bed.


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## sosurreal09

we do it everywhere but the bed. We got a blow up bed and pump it up sometimes.


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## Angelorum

When he was small, I'd put him down in his bouncy seat and then we'd have the bed to ourselves a while. Now that he's bigger, he sleeps in the bed and we make use of the giant bean bag chair in the living room. Sometimes the couch too, but the bean bag chair is a lot roomier. Any chance you have a room that could be improved by a LoveSac?


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## Peony

Another one that goes anywhere but the bed. Once in a great while we will steal one of the older kid's mattresses since they never sleep in their own bed other then that it is any other place that strikes us.


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## sosurreal09

Also DH does not mind at all having it go down wherever and whenever


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## asraidevin

We are on the sofa or the floor. Thank goodness I'm not the only one.


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## Koalamom

Dh doesn't care where things happen but I do. One look at sleeping ds and I am back in mama mode.


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## matthia

Thanks for the replies ladies!

it's funny, even though I am less uncomfortable dtd in front of the baby, every time I initiate sex it's somewhere besides the bed.... I think for DH it's just a comfort thing, after a long day's work he wants to relax while dtd. I'm definitely going to suggest using the bed more for sleep and making better use of our wonderful couch. I think we are going to try the crib mattress on the floor too though....Finn crawled right off the bed this morning! yikes! He's fine but it scared me.

I guess I'm scared of messing with his sleep patterns too. I really don't do well on minimal sleep and right now we're good. I guess we'll see what happens with the floor bed and if it works, great, problem solved. If not, we're (dh and I) just going to have to get more adventerous


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## Flower of Bliss

We use the guest bed. DD2 is already 18 months, so I guess past the baby stage, but I've never been comfortable dtd in bed with one of the babies. Once when staying in only one room, with DD1 on a mattress on the floor, we did start DD2 on a blanket on the floor so we could use the bed, but generally I'm not comfortable dtd even in the same room as sleeping babies/children. I'm just in mommy mood and have trouble relaxing and switching over. I love having the guest room. We can curl up and sleep afterwards and go to DD2 in our bed whenever she wakes up.


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## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goinggreengirl*
> 
> We did it a few times in bed with DS sleeping but it did feel weird to both of us. SO, we've pretty much moved to the floor. We have a crib side carred but DS wakes up as soon as I set him on that so it's mainly there to keep him rolling out of our bed.


This, we did it a couple times when DD was very young but it was weird and we were paranoid about being to loud.

We live in a loft so there is no chance of another room either.

We have a twin bed that is dragged out of the closet when we really want a bed (sometimes beds are just the best) not to be overly graphic but we have made it a joke, one of us will say "time to get the sex bed" so yeah we have a sex bed...sigh. I do miss our own bed but it isn't permanent. The couch, the floor etc work too. Then again we aren't having much sex so it isn't a major issue. Kudos to you mama for being interested in DTD!!

goinggreengirl do we have the same kid? The crib is sidecarred but only there to make sure DD doesn't roll out of the bed.


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## littleplum

I have back problems. Sex anywhere but the bed is out of the question for me. We put the pack and play in the hall and put the baby down to sleep. Then we just move him back into our room when we settle down for the night.


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## peainthepod

I can't really get out of mama mode if my babies are even in the same room, so we use the guest room bed or living room sofa with baby monitors on. I can't even imagine being able to relax enough to have sex while my child was in the bed with us. No way.


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## shnitzel

We have two double beds in our room. I would suggest getting a cot or extra bed.


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## La Sombra

We could never ever dtd in bed with ds--it weirded me out, but also he was a really light sleeper and would almost always wake up. So we just got into the habit, I guess you'd say, of dtd BEFORE bedtime on the couch or wherever. It is a kind of change in thinking, because I think most people end up dtd once they are in bed together, it just seems more natural, somehow. But it worked for us. However a month ago we moved ds into his own bedroom and I have to say that I'm LOVING having my bed back and all that that entails: being able to read before going to sleep, being able to put my pajamas on in the light and, yes, being able to make love in my own bed!


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## elisheva

Sex? In a bed? I can't even remember what that's like...Actually, we recently rearranged our random assortment of beds and now have one in the playroom in the basement that no one actually sleeps in...For a while it was a "sex bed" (thanks, PP) - foam mattress that we brought out to the living room. We're old so sometimes we'd even decide the discomfort wasn't worth it...

Also, we've really given up on foreplay for the time being...we mostly just do what needs to be done.


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## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *La Sombra*
> 
> We could never ever dtd in bed with ds--it weirded me out, but also he was a really light sleeper and would almost always wake up. So we just got into the habit, I guess you'd say, of dtd BEFORE bedtime on the couch or wherever. It is a kind of change in thinking, because I think most people end up dtd once they are in bed together, it just seems more natural, somehow. But it worked for us. However a month ago we moved ds into his own bedroom and I have to say that I'm LOVING having my bed back and all that that entails: being able to read before going to sleep, being able to put my pajamas on in the light and, yes, being able to make love in my own bed!


Reading? Pajamas in the light? Who needs sex?! Sooooo looking forward to those things! But loving cosleeping too ;0)

We've kind of given up a bit for now. The shower used to be our special place but now dd doesn't make noise when she wakes up and checking the video monitor is a turn off!


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## sosurreal09

Well we dtd in the bed on occasion, bu only during the day when DD is awake (so DH has the day off) We can sometimes pop on the tv and run upstairs for a passionate quickie. Just wanted to add that lol

IDK we don't miss the bed over here. We have a seriously wonderful s-e-x life.


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## Bekka

We've had a twin next to our bed for the last 3 kids. It becomes the baby's bed, sometimes it's just extra space when the baby is stretched out too much. And sometimes it's the sex bed. LOL. We have no problem DTD with the kid in the room... It's a learned habit, though.


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## Agatha_Ann

We don't have any kids with us in bed right now, so we do use our own bed for the most part right now. When we do have a baby in bed with us, the only time I'm ok being in our bed is if the baby is in the pack n play. Our room is pretty big, so we can make it so it is like we are alone. I still get paranoid about being noisy though, and it isn't much of a turn on when we both keep stealing glances towards wherever the baby is! We also have the guest room that has a queen so that works. And then once all the kids are in bed we have the entire downstairs to ourselves!


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## Tumble Bumbles

Dh and I joke that if we were to have sex in bed again it would be new and exotic, it's been a longggg time. We've never felt comfortable having sex with dd in the room sleeping, it just feels very distracting and an odd colliding of roles (like when George's worlds collide on Seinfeld







).

Another big inside joke is how nasty it would be if one of those crime scene blacklights were ever run over our couch and loveseat in the living room









Cosleeping obviously hasn't affected our sex life, just the location. An air mattress is also good as a 'sex bed' (love the term!).


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## Pirogi

Wow.







I guess we are the only ones who don't have issues DTD in the family bed. DD is 3 and sleeps on a twin next to our king, and DS is 1 month (yeah, we started early postpartum). As long as there is regular deep breathing from DD's bed and DS has unlatched for the night, we are good to go. Or sometimes we wake up spontaneously in the middle of the night, one or the other, and stuff happens. We are silent though ... it will be weird after all the babies are in their own beds and we can be louder.

Should we be rethinking this?


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## Ldavis24

Ok I'm just impressed that you are DTD only a month after baby is born. A month after DD was born I was still walking gingerly let alone even thinking about DTD...

I think you'll be alright, when you do finally get to be alone it will seem incredibly adventurous I imagine or at least that is what I think it will be like for us...

I don't have an issue DTD in the same room as DD or even theoretically the same bed, it's just that we have on more than one occasion woken her up and that really really spoils the mood.

I cannot wait to get our own bed back so we can DTD in what most people consider the most boring place to do it!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirogi*
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are the only ones who don't have issues DTD in the family bed. DD is 3 and sleeps on a twin next to our king, and DS is 1 month (yeah, we started early postpartum). As long as there is regular deep breathing from DD's bed and DS has unlatched for the night, we are good to go. Or sometimes we wake up spontaneously in the middle of the night, one or the other, and stuff happens. We are silent though ... it will be weird after all the babies are in their own beds and we can be louder.
> 
> Should we be rethinking this?


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## Adaline'sMama

We DTD in the family bed up until about a month ago when DD started saying "up" when she woke up. For me, once they can say words, it weirds me out. So, I now have to plan ahead and make sure to put her down somwhere else if we want to use the bed. We have moved to the floor right next to the bed and we often use the couch.


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## Comtessa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirogi*
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we are the only ones who don't have issues DTD in the family bed. DD is 3 and sleeps on a twin next to our king, and DS is 1 month (yeah, we started early postpartum). As long as there is regular deep breathing from DD's bed and DS has unlatched for the night, we are good to go. Or sometimes we wake up spontaneously in the middle of the night, one or the other, and stuff happens. We are silent though ... it will be weird after all the babies are in their own beds and we can be louder.
> 
> Should we be rethinking this?


You're not the only ones! We don't have a problem with it either. Our DTD pattern tends to be very early in the morning, when DD is nearly impossible to wake up. We tend to be pretty quick, quiet and mellow about it, though, so as not to disturb her. It will be VERY nice when we can be a bit more athletic and noisy... and get a bit more creative!

As for early, I think we started at 2 weeks postpartum, as soon as the MW gave her ok.  (I blame the oxytocin too!) We've pretty much always DTD with her in the cosleeper or in the bed next to us; as long as she's sleeping and we're quiet, I don't worry too much about it. Children have grown up with adults DTD in the same bed/ same room for most of human history (and in most of the world, most of them still do), so it's not like we're that unusual.


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## Ldavis24

Out of curiosity am I the only one here who NEVER EVER mentions this to anyone (besides you MDC mamas). It's not that I think there is a single thing wrong with DTD next to a sleeping LO but what does concern me could the possible reaction of someone else. Like freaking out and telling other people or in the off chance some random person I barely know heard about it (I don't know how that would happen exactly since I don't walk around talking about my sex life constantly) and called CPS or something. Crazier things have happened.


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## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Out of curiosity am I the only one here who NEVER EVER mentions this to anyone (besides you MDC mamas). It's not that I think there is a single thing wrong with DTD next to a sleeping LO but what does concern me could the possible reaction of someone else. Like freaking out and telling other people or in the off chance some random person I barely know heard about it (I don't know how that would happen exactly since I don't walk around talking about my sex life constantly) and called CPS or something. Crazier things have happened.


I only discuss it with a few girlfriends who also cosleep. Everyone else already thinks we are crazy enough as it is!


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## Sfcmama

Nvmd! Too vulnerable of a post to be judged to harshly. Sorry to freak people out by being a sexual person, a parent and be living in a small apartment.


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## Tumble Bumbles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Out of curiosity am I the only one here who NEVER EVER mentions this to anyone (besides you MDC mamas). It's not that I think there is a single thing wrong with DTD next to a sleeping LO but what does concern me could the possible reaction of someone else. Like freaking out and telling other people or in the off chance some random person I barely know heard about it (I don't know how that would happen exactly since I don't walk around talking about my sex life constantly) and called CPS or something. Crazier things have happened.


I'm one of the mamas who doesn't DTD with our child in bed (then again, she's almost 6) but I hardly even mention to anyone that we co-sleep let alone if we did DTD while cosleeping. People are wacked out enough about *just* cosleeping around here I would just keep the sex stuff to myself. Then, I tend to be a tad tin foil hat about CPS because of all the things we do that are 'against the grain'.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sfcmama*
> 
> Back again with another thought that I couldn't let go of after my last post... Hope I'm not hijacking thread but feel like people will be honest and nonjudgmental here.
> 
> So... What about DTD, ahem, solo in the family bed? We have dd in a sidecar and I used to feel fine with it when she was younger but now reserve my "special alone time" for the shower. That being said, I think I would've totally freaked out if I walked in on DH doing the solo deed with dd in the room - double standard, I know, but just not right to me with the gender difference, KWIM?
> 
> Whew, thanks! Just had to get that thought out there, even if no one responds.


For me, if dh did that with dd in the room, I would f u r e a k o u t to like an insane degree. I trust my husband 1000% but he knows I am a survivor of sexual abuse and there are huge triggers with me surrounding certain things. In fact, suncosciously that may be even partially why we don't even have sex while cosleeping (never thought about that aspect much). However, the "solo" thing would send me triggered so bad and I know dh knows that so he would never do that. I wouldn't either, likely for the same reasons.

I'm not making judgments, just sayin' *for us*, given my particular abusive past and comfort level it wouldn't be okay.


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## treeoflife3

yes, someone probably would call CPS. You'd be hard pressed to prove your baby was in bed right next to you while you were having sex just because that is where the baby sleeps. The biggest question people have who don't understand co sleeping is 'but what about sex' and the answer is always 'the bed isn't the only place you have to have it.' I'm sincerely shocked that there are co sleeping families who have no qualms with sex right next to their baby. It is making ME very uncomfortable so yeah... if you are having sex with a baby in your bed you aren't going to want to tell anyone. sex and babies don't mix other than when making one.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Out of curiosity am I the only one here who NEVER EVER mentions this to anyone (besides you MDC mamas). It's not that I think there is a single thing wrong with DTD next to a sleeping LO but what does concern me could the possible reaction of someone else. Like freaking out and telling other people or in the off chance some random person I barely know heard about it (I don't know how that would happen exactly since I don't walk around talking about my sex life constantly) and called CPS or something. Crazier things have happened.


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## peainthepod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> yes, someone probably would call CPS. You'd be hard pressed to prove your baby was in bed right next to you while you were having sex just because that is where the baby sleeps. The biggest question people have who don't understand co sleeping is 'but what about sex' and the answer is always 'the bed isn't the only place you have to have it.' I'm sincerely shocked that there are co sleeping families who have no qualms with sex right next to their baby. It is making ME very uncomfortable so yeah... if you are having sex with a baby in your bed you aren't going to want to tell anyone. sex and babies don't mix other than when making one.


I think this post was very brave. It's never a popular response in this kind of thread but I happen to completely agree. The thought of two adults having sex in the same bed as a child, even if the child is asleep, makes me very uncomfortable.









(The "But other cultures do it!" argument doesn't really fly with me, since other cultures do lots of things that ours doesn't. That's what makes them, you know, other cultures. It's not really relevant to us in the here and now.)


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## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tumble Bumbles*
> 
> For me, if dh did that with dd in the room, I would f u r e a k o u t to like an insane degree. I trust my husband 1000% but he knows I am a survivor of sexual abuse and there are huge triggers with me surrounding certain things. In fact, suncosciously that may be even partially why we don't even have sex while cosleeping (never thought about that aspect much). However, the "solo" thing would send me triggered so bad and I know dh knows that so he would never do that. I wouldn't either, likely for the same reasons.
> 
> I'm not making judgments, just sayin' *for us*, given my particular abusive past and comfort level it wouldn't be okay.


Yup. And it would FREAK me out if I heard another family talking about it being Ok too. I'd have some serious questions about that. Mom OR Dad.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peainthepod*
> 
> I think this post was very brave. It's never a popular response in this kind of thread but I happen to completely agree. The thought of two adults having sex in the same bed as a child, even if the child is asleep, makes me very uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (*The "But other cultures do it!" argument doesn't really fly with me, since other cultures do lots of things that ours doesn't. That's what makes them, you know, other cultures. It's not really relevant to us in the here and now*.)


BIG yeah to the bolded. We live in OUR culture, for better or worse. If you want to live in a different culture, thats a choice that can be made. But in the culture we have, there are certain things that just aren't done. Other cultures do things that we think are positively CRAZY - like only wiping with your left hand and only eating with your right, and then if you commit a crime the left hand gets cut off so that you have to wipe and eat with the same hand. Umm....pretty sure thats not something I would want to happen here.

I can't imagine having sex in the same bed as my child. The same room, maybe, if they were SUPER sound asleep. But yeah, getting in the mood would be pretty difficult.


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## slylives

Me too. Honestly, I am repulsed at the idea of adults having sex in the same bed as a sleeping child. I think having sex in the same room as a sleeping child is crossing the line. If someone mentioned that they did this, despite the fact that I am normally a "each to their own" kind of person, I think I would feel compelled to tell them that I think it's wrong.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peainthepod*
> 
> I think this post was very brave. It's never a popular response in this kind of thread but I happen to completely agree. The thought of two adults having sex in the same bed as a child, even if the child is asleep, makes me very uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The "But other cultures do it!" argument doesn't really fly with me, since other cultures do lots of things that ours doesn't. That's what makes them, you know, other cultures. It's not really relevant to us in the here and now.)


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## Ldavis24

Ok then, interested in the responses as always. DTD not even in the same room as your LO??

Well that just wouldn't work for us, we live in a loft so it is all the same room.

I wanted to clarify, being the idiot who brought it up, that I think there is an age issue at play with DTD while LO is sleeping in their own specified part of the bed. DD is a toddler now, she is big she takes up a lot of the bed and she is becoming aware of vaginas and penises. I might have DTD in the same bed when she was a newborn and sleeping but now it wouldn't work and I wouldn't be comfortable with it.

I don't think it is fair to discount the "other culture's do it" argument. We are all part of the same world and every culture borrows from other cultures. Do you not eat mexican food or practice an eastern religion or hell do Yoga?! which is a huge cultural thing in India that Americans basically warped into their own weird exercise thing.

I mean seriously because other culture's do something is the reason many things are the way they are in America. America's culture as a whole is to force your child into independence before they even cut a tooth and I think we can all agree that doesn't work out so well for our kids. I just don't get being against doing something because we borrow that from another culture. Like it is bad somehow..

I don't mind if someone isn't comfortable with the idea of people DTD with their baby in the same room or bed but I take serious objection to what I wrote about above.


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## Pirogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> Me too. Honestly, I am repulsed at the idea of adults having sex in the same bed as a sleeping child. *I think having sex in the same room as a sleeping child is crossing the line.* If someone mentioned that they did this, despite the fact that I am normally a "each to their own" kind of person, I think I would feel compelled to tell them that I think it's wrong.


Why, out of curiosity?


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## slylives

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirogi*
> 
> Why, out of curiosity?


I see sex as a private, intimate experience between consenting adults. And I think it's wrong for a child to be a witness to their parent's intimacy (even if the child is asleep, I see it as a boundary that has been crossed). I appreciate that some people may see the age of the child as a factor - but I do not.


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## peainthepod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> I see sex as a private, intimate experience between consenting adults. And I think it's wrong for a child to be a witness to their parent's intimacy (even if the child is asleep, I see it as a boundary that has been crossed). I appreciate that some people may see the age of the child as a factor - but I do not.


I agree.


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## Ldavis24

I don't disagree with how you feel, everyone has their own feelings on the matter, but how can a child witness something when they are sound asleep? How can a boundary be crossed when the child doesn't have a clue what is going on because they are sleeping?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> I see sex as a private, intimate experience between consenting adults. And I think it's wrong for a child to be a witness to their parent's intimacy (even if the child is asleep, I see it as a boundary that has been crossed). I appreciate that some people may see the age of the child as a factor - but I do not.


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## slylives

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I don't disagree with how you feel, everyone has their own feelings on the matter, but how can a child witness something when they are sound asleep? How can a boundary be crossed when the child doesn't have a clue what is going on because they are sleeping?


 Children wake up. You yourself said that you've woken up your child when you're having sex with your husband. Even when children appear to be sound asleep, they can often hear what going's on, especially if they are in a restless period of sleep. As for the boundary crossing - I see that more in terms of the parents behaviour rather than the child's consciousness. Putting it in a quick and dirty way (have to go and make dinner) I think opening myself to my husband while my child is in the same room, is crossing the boundaries of what I, an adult, should be doing. Regardless of the child's level of awareness. I actually feel a little grubby just thinking about it!!


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## Ldavis24

now that I understand and appreciate the clarification. DH and I actually were talking about this thread earlier today and he was surprised there are so many people who even manage to DTD regularly with kids in the house that he wished this was an issue we had more often..Sigh I agree with him.

I just can't imagine how too many people would ever be able to DTD under the threat of their kid hearing it you know? I mean if you live in a tiny apartment or in a loft like we do there is just no hiding the noise unless you make a point to be quiet, which we have to.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> Children wake up. You yourself said that you've woken up your child when you're having sex with your husband. Even when children appear to be sound asleep, they can often hear what going's on, especially if they are in a restless period of sleep. As for the boundary crossing - I see that more in terms of the parents behaviour rather than the child's consciousness. Putting it in a quick and dirty way (have to go and make dinner) I think opening myself to my husband while my child is in the same room, is crossing the boundaries of what I, an adult, should be doing. Regardless of the child's level of awareness. I actually feel a little grubby just thinking about it!!


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## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I don't think it is fair to discount the "other culture's do it" argument. We are all part of the same world and every culture borrows from other cultures. Do you not eat mexican food or practice an eastern religion or hell do Yoga?! which is a huge cultural thing in India that Americans basically warped into their own weird exercise thing.
> 
> I mean seriously because other culture's do something is the reason many things are the way they are in America. America's culture as a whole is to force your child into independence before they even cut a tooth and I think we can all agree that doesn't work out so well for our kids. I just don't get being against doing something because we borrow that from another culture. Like it is bad somehow..


Some things, like food and exercise, are good to borrow and experience. I would be SERIOUSLY uncomfortable if I traveled to a foreign country, and while staying in someones one room house was exposed to people having sex. That would SERIOUSLY bother me, and I probably wouldn't leave with very good feelings about that culture.

There is also a huge difference between not going along with the cultural expectation that babies CIO or become independent on day one, and having sex right next to them. Really, thats not OK in my book. And at what age is it not OK? When they start to have memories? When they no longer sleep through it?

I mean, I'm all for parents getting their needs met - sex is an important part of a healthy relationship I believe - I just don't believe it should include the kiddos. Now, baby in a pack n play, on the other side of the room, dead asleep - maybe. Why? Because even if they woke up, they probably wouldn't see anything (unless they can pull to stand, then they would be too old - but an infant who isn't capable of moving around on their own yet maybe, IF I could get into the mood).

And, there are many things about our culture that I don't accept (circ for example), but that doesn't mean that I have to accept everything that another culture does.


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## matthia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peainthepod*
> 
> I think this post was very brave. It's never a popular response in this kind of thread but I happen to completely agree. The thought of two adults having sex in the same bed as a child, even if the child is asleep, makes me very uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (*The "But other cultures do it!" argument doesn't really fly with me, since other cultures do lots of things that ours doesn't. That's what makes them, you know, other cultures. It's not really relevant to us in the here and now.)*


I have to say that this comment REALLY bothers me. This is completely irregardless of the original topic of this thread but is it because Mothering is an American publication that you also assume that I define my identity as "American" or Canadian or British? Or would it be alright if I was one of those "American" blacks, or "american" latinos? But if I happen to be an immigrant, from Africa, from South America, from Asia living in America does that negate the value of my "other" culture? Should I prehaps re-identify myself?

Or what about if I am a second generation immigrant? Should my cultural ties to my family no longer hold water because I happen to live in another country?

Or perhaps I should change my prrofile picture so I can show you if I am or am not a part of a visible "other" and then maybe my culture could "fly" with you?


----------



## peainthepod

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matthia*
> 
> I have to say that this comment REALLY bothers me. This is completely irregardless of the original topic of this thread but is it because Mothering is an American publication that you also assume that I define my identity as "American" or Canadian or British? Or would it be alright if I was one of those "American" blacks, or "american" latinos? But if I happen to be an immigrant, from Africa, from South America, from Asia living in America does that negate the value of my "other" culture? Should I prehaps re-identify myself?
> 
> Or what about if I am a second generation immigrant? Should my cultural ties to my family no longer hold water because I happen to live in another country?
> 
> Or perhaps I should change my prrofile picture so I can show you if I am or am not a part of a visible "other" and then maybe my culture could "fly" with you?


I'm sorry I offended you, mama, but I think you're reading a whole lot into my post that wasn't actually there.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matthia*
> 
> I have to say that this comment REALLY bothers me. This is completely irregardless of the original topic of this thread but is it because Mothering is an American publication that you also assume that I define my identity as "American" or Canadian or British? Or would it be alright if I was one of those "American" blacks, or "american" latinos? But if I happen to be an immigrant, from Africa, from South America, from Asia living in America does that negate the value of my "other" culture? Should I prehaps re-identify myself?
> 
> Or what about if I am a second generation immigrant? Should my cultural ties to my family no longer hold water because I happen to live in another country?
> 
> Or perhaps I should change my prrofile picture so I can show you if I am or am not a part of a visible "other" and then maybe my culture could "fly" with you?


And this comment really bothers me, b/c it assumes that we are racist if we disagree. There are many things that our culture does not tolerate, that other cultures do, and when people come to this country, there are things that need to be gotten used to. Sexism is one, my mother works at a public library in an immigrant community. The culture of that community shifts when the immigration patterns shift, and there was a period of time when most of the immigrants were Somali, and the men would.not.listen.to.a.word.she.said.Period.Ever.At.All. Well, when they did things against the rules whats she supposed to do? Let them? Call a man over to deal with them? Let them be sexist and bring their culture over here and make her authority not count when directed towards them? No. They had to learn that here women are respected and listened to. That meant she called the police alot to deal with it, b/c they WOULD listen to the police - and then she usually had no further problems with that individual.

FGM is OK in other cultures - should those cultures be able to bring that to our country too just b/c they are of a different culture?

What about "honor killings"? Are those OK just b/c they are from another culture? No, they aren't.

It's not inherently racist to think that what is OK in other cultures is not OK in ours.

ETA - Just like when I visit another culture I do my best to be respectful of it, there are certain aspects of the US culture that people need to be respectful of when in the US.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Some things, like food and exercise, are good to borrow and experience. I would be SERIOUSLY uncomfortable if I traveled to a foreign country, and while staying in someones one room house was exposed to people having sex. That would SERIOUSLY bother me, and I probably wouldn't leave with very good feelings about that culture.
> 
> There is also a huge difference between not going along with the cultural expectation that babies CIO or become independent on day one, and having sex right next to them. Really, thats not OK in my book. And at what age is it not OK? When they start to have memories? When they no longer sleep through it?
> 
> I mean, I'm all for parents getting their needs met - sex is an important part of a healthy relationship I believe - *I just don't believe it should include the kiddos*. Now, baby in a pack n play, on the other side of the room, dead asleep - maybe. Why? Because even if they woke up, they probably wouldn't see anything (unless they can pull to stand, then they would be too old - but an infant who isn't capable of moving around on their own yet maybe, IF I could get into the mood).
> 
> And, there are many things about our culture that I don't accept (circ for example), but that doesn't mean that I have to accept everything that another culture does.


Ok I see this is where the disagreement for me personally is. I don't see it as involving the kiddos in any way to have sex in the same room as a sleeping baby/toddler. It sounds perverted when you say it like that frankly.

I'm not saying accept everything from another culture either. I am saying that you shouldn't blow something off because another culture finds it normal. Honestly if I was visiting a one room house and the owners of that house were having sex while everyone was sleeping and I was awake, I would be trying really really hard not to laugh out loud because I don't see sex in general as something to be hidden (please don't think this means I think people should be having sex in the street) or super secretive. We are all sexual beings from the day we are born. I am reminded of what movie, Dances with Wolves maybe where they are in a communal teepee and a couple is DTD and someone wakes up and just rolls back over like "whatever they aren't bothering anyone or including them"...Ok maybe not the same thing but I think it is as big a deal as you make out of it.

I would also be way more mortified by my teenage kid walking in on me and DH DTD than my baby waking up while I was having sex and seeing mommy and daddy on top of each other.


----------



## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matthia*
> 
> I have to say that this comment REALLY bothers me. This is completely irregardless of the original topic of this thread but is it because Mothering is an American publication that you also assume that I define my identity as "American" or Canadian or British? Or would it be alright if I was one of those "American" blacks, or "american" latinos? But if I happen to be an immigrant, from Africa, from South America, from Asia living in America does that negate the value of my "other" culture? Should I prehaps re-identify myself?
> 
> Or what about if I am a second generation immigrant? Should my cultural ties to my family no longer hold water because I happen to live in another country?
> 
> Or perhaps I should change my prrofile picture so I can show you if I am or am not a part of a visible "other" and then maybe my culture could "fly" with you?


Wow - I don't know you but I love you!

I'm starting to realize that many times when I becomee uncomfortable with an MDC discussion its because it takes on the tone of dominant white, middle class US/Canadian America. What if I don't have the money or cultural expectations to have a space to make more children that is separate from my child's sleeping space?! Can there be room for that to be different and not sickening? Sorry to pull thread further off topic but a lot of cultural assumptions have been made.


----------



## Ldavis24

wish I was as eloquent as this when I try to make my points.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sfcmama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *matthia*
> 
> I have to say that this comment REALLY bothers me. This is completely irregardless of the original topic of this thread but is it because Mothering is an American publication that you also assume that I define my identity as "American" or Canadian or British? Or would it be alright if I was one of those "American" blacks, or "american" latinos? But if I happen to be an immigrant, from Africa, from South America, from Asia living in America does that negate the value of my "other" culture? Should I prehaps re-identify myself?
> 
> Or what about if I am a second generation immigrant? Should my cultural ties to my family no longer hold water because I happen to live in another country?
> 
> Or perhaps I should change my prrofile picture so I can show you if I am or am not a part of a visible "other" and then maybe my culture could "fly" with you?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow - I don't know you but I love you!
> 
> I'm starting to realize that many times when I becomee uncomfortable with an MDC discussion its because it takes on the tone of dominant white, middle class US/Canadian America. What if I don't have the money or cultural expectations to have a space to make more children that is separate from my child's sleeping space?! Can there be room for that to be different and not sickening? Sorry to pull thread further off topic but a lot of cultural assumptions have been made.
Click to expand...


----------



## Pirogi

I guess I don't really see how any cultural expectations have anything to do with it (other than to be aware of possible CPS involvement of course). I certainly don't embrace much of mainstream western culture in how I live or raise my child. For me, I would have to look at it this way: is it morally or ethically wrong for the parents of a child to have sex while they are in the room or nearby? If so, why? Is it the threat of hearing something (I heard my parents quietly having sex from the opposite end of the house for years ... should they have abstained until I was out of their home?)? Is it the idea that the children are somehow part of the sexual activity? I can assure you that in our home that is not the case. Is it that the child may wake up and see something? We are careful not to "look" like anything is out of the ordinary just in case our DD were to ever wake ... we use side-lying most often, and there is really nothing to see or hear. I really am open to hearing WHY others think it is wrong, and I may change my opinion.

Of course, I fully believe that there will come an age when DD will be too old to be in the same room. Right now, she has no idea what sex is or what it would mean for her parents to be intimate. She just doesn't get it.

I appreciate everyone's honesty, and I hope others are able to keep their judgments at bay. It really is unnecessary. We are all different, and there is a different dynamic to every household.


----------



## matthia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> And this comment really bothers me, b/c it assumes that we are racist if we disagree. There are many things that our culture does not tolerate, that other cultures do, and when people come to this country, there are things that need to be gotten used to. Sexism is one, my mother works at a public library in an immigrant community. The culture of that community shifts when the immigration patterns shift, and there was a period of time when most of the immigrants were Somali, and the men would.not.listen.to.a.word.she.said.Period.Ever.At.All. Well, when they did things against the rules whats she supposed to do? Let them? Call a man over to deal with them? Let them be sexist and bring their culture over here and make her authority not count when directed towards them? No. They had to learn that here women are respected and listened to. That meant she called the police alot to deal with it, b/c they WOULD listen to the police - and then she usually had no further problems with that individual.
> 
> FGM is OK in other cultures - should those cultures be able to bring that to our country too just b/c they are of a different culture?
> 
> What about "honor killings"? Are those OK just b/c they are from another culture? No, they aren't.
> 
> It's not inherently racist to think that what is OK in other cultures is not OK in ours.
> 
> ETA - Just like when I visit another culture I do my best to be respectful of it, there are certain aspects of the US culture that people need to be respectful of when in the US.


Perhaps my response was too...reactive. I have dealt with situations where being "other" made me out right WRONG. It is something that gets my hackles up and I, obviosuly, react strongly.

I think what I have a hard time with is WHERE the lines of this arguement lie. And I don't think that is easy to pinpoint for anyone. FOR MY PERSONAL OPINION equating FGM (which is inflicting serious personal harm on another human being) with having sex in the same room as a sleeping infant is crossing a line when discussing what is acceptable in one culture as opposed to another.

I guess I should have spent more time considering my post before simply posting it. However, If I am Japanese and slept in the same room with my parents until I was a pre-teen and now sleep with my child because I feel that is right, from an emotional and cultural standpoint, and am trying to discover the practicalities of that choice, it is hard to hear that my culture is wrong, simply because of where I choose to live. and that people I know and love are wrong.

I do think that culture matters and identifying your culture with your place of residence isn't as simple as that. I am sure that American's living in Korea don't suddenly stop celebrating their American culture because they live somewhere else.

It was absolutely the intention of starting this thread to get a broader perspective from many different people and many different backgrounds. It wasn't my intention to start debating whose culture is more or less vaild because of this difference in perspective. I, obviously, failed to maintain my own intended impartiality.

I would like to suggest that if anyone needs to get another word in on why having sex in a room with an infant is a CULTURAL matter, they can pm if they need to or perhaps start another thread. Otherwise I would like to suggest that we re-direct the thread back to it's intended start point. I absolutely think the opinions of everybody are important in this discussion, but I would rather leave out the "baggage" if we can. And I do include myself in this.

If not, perhaps one of the mods can just close the thread.


----------



## treeoflife3

Re: My original comment that started this

My concern isn't the child in the same room. Although that icks me out personally so I won't do it, that seems to be a more personal decision based on multiple factors. My issue is the baby IN the bed with the parents having sex. What I said is true.. if you are having sex with a baby in bed with you, no you can't tell anyone. You would be very hard pressed to prove the baby was only there because that is where the baby sleeps. Most people are going to jump to some awful conclusions and want to know why you couldn't put baby in a crib/bassinet/pnp/swing/etc or have sex on the floor/couch/shower/etc. Having sex with a baby in bed with you, regardless of their being a newborn or 5, is going to raise some pretty heavy questions if anyone finds out, at least in America/Canada which is the area I'm in.

The onus would be on you to prove that the baby was only there because that is the only place they have to sleep and you couldn't dtd elsewhere and I can't imagine most people would believe anyone saying that. People have gotten in trouble just for having bathtub pictures of toddlers in the past, and that isn't even sex. Many people will hear 'sex with a baby' not 'sex near where the baby is sleeping' if you say you have sex while the baby is in the same bed.


----------



## matthia

FWIW, havig our baby on the crib mattress next to our bed didn't work AT ALL. We never even bothered trying to DTD but it was the worse night's sleep we've ever had, including his newborn period. He's definitely back in our bed. As for sex, I don't know, I guess we're still figuring that out.

@Ldavis24: no, I don't imagine I would ever really discuss this with anyone IRL I wasn't cklose to, and then I know it wouldn't be an issue.... I tend to be a tad wary of even bringing up cosleeping sometimes. always being on the defensive can be so tiring.


----------



## Ldavis24

Ok back to original topic. That was me just commenting about the idea of someone freaking out if you mentioned that you DTD while LO was sleeping in the bed. I totally agree people would freak out. I think maybe some people just wouldn't want to move their kid or DTD on the floor instead of the bed, to the bolded part, playing devil's advocate. Why should someone have to move their already sleeping LO off the (king size) bed in order to DTD on the bed? Thats all I'm saying or curious to hear responses about. Some people think it is really messed up, others not so much. I lean to the not caring so much because we PERSONALLY have a crib sidecarred to the bed and when DD was very small and sleeping in the side carred crib, yes DH and I DTD a couple of times on the actual bed while she slept in the crib portion. Would I do it now that she is older, no but I am not going to knock a couple who is still comfortable with it. I don't find it perverted or disturbing at all. It isn't like the kid is involved in any way at all.

Now if my dog is on the bed while I am DTD with DH, I have a serious problem with that but only because my dog has a charming habit of trying to lick feet when we are DTD







Quote:



> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> Re: My original comment that started this
> 
> My concern isn't the child in the same room. Although that icks me out personally so I won't do it, that seems to be a more personal decision based on multiple factors. My issue is the baby IN the bed with the parents having sex. What I said is true.. if you are having sex with a baby in bed with you, no you can't tell anyone. You would be very hard pressed to prove the baby was only there because that is where the baby sleeps. Most people are going to jump to some awful conclusions and *want to know why you couldn't put baby in a crib/bassinet/pnp/swing/etc or have sex on the floor/couch/shower/etc.* Having sex with a baby in bed with you, regardless of their being a newborn or 5, is going to raise some pretty heavy questions if anyone finds out, at least in America/Canada which is the area I'm in.
> 
> The onus would be on you to prove that the baby was only there because that is the only place they have to sleep and you couldn't dtd elsewhere and I can't imagine most people would believe anyone saying that. People have gotten in trouble just for having bathtub pictures of toddlers in the past, and that isn't even sex. Many people will hear 'sex with a baby' not 'sex near where the baby is sleeping' if you say you have sex while the baby is in the same bed.


----------



## sosurreal09

I know my 3 y/o nephew shared a room with his dad and step mom. He was in his own bed on the other side of the room.

So he was at his moms one night and she shut off the light to put him to bed and he started moaning and she said "Why are you doing that?" He said "That's what Daddy does when the lights go out."

I personally feel weird about it.


----------



## Adaline'sMama

There seems to be a lot of talk amongst the mamas who dont think people should be DTD in the same room or bed with their kiddos about culture or what is okay in "our" culture. What about people who live in one room apartments, rvs, tents, school busses, yurts, basements at their parents house, ect.? There are lots and lots of "American" families that live that kind of lifestyle. SO, they should never have sex in their own space? If you live in an RV you should only have sex when you go out into the woods and find a hidden place? If you live in a one room apartment you have to let your child go and stay with someone else for a few hours just so you can DTD in your own space? Jeeze, in my circle of friends sex is something that is not to be hidden away and treated like its dirty.

As for the PP who said they would be so so offended if they went to another country and were exposed to people having sex:

Have you ever been to the park in San Fransisco?

Have you ever lived in a communal house?

Have you ever lived in a dorm room?

There are tons and tons of places right here in this country where people are exposed to sex all.the.time. Ill bet just in my youth Ive seen at least 5 couples having sex (and not because I was there to watch). For some people, its really not that abnormal to go on a camping trip and realize that people are doing it in the tent you are sharing.

Honestly, Id be a lot more worried about my kid watching a tv commercial that implies all the bad things about sex than I would about them waking up and seeing me on top of their father.


----------



## Ldavis24

Ok off topic a little bit but I remember a music festival I was at a few years ago where there was a lovely young couple completely buck naked DTD under a tree with literally thousands of people milling around them...It was hilarious.

My point, I too don't understand why people are petrified of the idea of their kid hearing them have sex or accidently seeing it or whatever. Like I said before we are all sexual beings from day 1. There is nothing shameful about it, it doesn't need to be something whispered about and spoken about in hushed tones as if you did something wrong. I'll also say again I would be far far more displeased if I had a teen (which I will eventually) who walked in on DH and I DTD...


----------



## oneearthmama

We had this exact same problem and we also have a queen mattress and box spring on the floor. Our solution has been to side car his crib turned into a toddler bed. At first he noticed the change so we put an egg crate on top of his crib mattress to make it more comfortable like ours. He has no problem sleeping in the side car bed and if he wakes up in the night and wants to snuggle he can crawl right on over! Good luck with the sex life! I, too, was and still am a new mama with an active libido!


----------



## treeoflife3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Ok back to original topic. That was me just commenting about the idea of someone freaking out if you mentioned that you DTD while LO was sleeping in the bed. I totally agree people would freak out. I think maybe some people just wouldn't want to move their kid or DTD on the floor instead of the bed, to the bolded part, playing devil's advocate. *Why should someone have to move their already sleeping LO off the (king size) bed in order to DTD on the bed?* Thats all I'm saying or curious to hear responses about. Some people think it is really messed up, others not so much. I lean to the not caring so much because we PERSONALLY have a crib sidecarred to the bed and when DD was very small and sleeping in the side carred crib, yes DH and I DTD a couple of times on the actual bed while she slept in the crib portion. Would I do it now that she is older, no but I am not going to knock a couple who is still comfortable with it. I don't find it perverted or disturbing at all. It isn't like the kid is involved in any way at all.
> 
> Now if my dog is on the bed while I am DTD with DH, I have a serious problem with that but only because my dog has a charming habit of trying to lick feet when we are DTD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:


If you were reported for sex with a baby in bed with you, the question you'd be asked as an answer to the bolded is 'why, if you didn't want to move your baby off the bed, couldn't you move to the floor/couch/bathroom/wherever instead'

People are very sensitive to child abuse/sexual abuse. Its one thing to have a sound asleep baby in the room but on a separate sleeping surface while you quietly have sex but people will find it a completely different thing to have sex with baby practically sharing the same pillow. Whether or not the baby was involved with the sex or was sound asleep and had zero clue (and wasn't even old enough to understand were they wide awake anyway) people would struggle to believe you really were just having sex as if baby wasn't there even though baby was.

People struggle to understand co sleeping as it is. I'm all for it personally but we all know how people sometimes have to hide that they co sleep at all because people think it is really dangerous or will screw a kid up by not being 'independent.' Sex is always the first thing I ever see asked when co sleeping comes up. Every single time. and every single time the argument is 'you don't have to have sex in bed.' People against co sleeping or not even so sure about it are going to assume co sleeping and sex are not mixed. When they hear it has been by having sex with a baby next to the couple in bed, they are going to jump to conclusions... because people are very sensitive about child abuse/sexual abuse.

I'm sure the people in this thread who say they have or have had sex with their child in bed with them were doing so quietly so as not to wake baby because I'm going to assume anyone doing something wrong wouldn't say so so publicly however I am alternative enough to recognize that. Most people are not going to be. Ask on a more mainstream forum the same question of co sleeping and sex... in the same bed at the same time... and I can almost guarantee people will flip. I personally can't blame them.. I don't see a single reason why I would ever need to have sex with my child able to roll right into me during. People will want to know why baby couldn't be placed elsewhere when they went to sleep or why the parents couldn't have planned for sex at a better time or why the parents couldn't have had sex elsewhere. People will assume that purposely not choosing another route is highly questionable because very few people don't have other options. Even in the one room apartment I used to live in, I still had a separate bathroom... and had sex in it too. That is how most people will think.


----------



## Sfcmama

Just curious... To the mamas who are grossed out by DTD with a young one in the room, did/do you feel the same way about having sex toward the end of your pregnancy? Just trying to understand where the line is from your perspective. What about orgasmic birth or nipple stimulation during labor? Perhaps for some, a young baby isn't yet a separate entity from the mama/couple during the fourth trimester (as in little difference between sex while 9 mo pregnant and sex with a sleeping 2 mo old in the room).


----------



## slylives

I for one have never implied that sex is shameful or "hidden away and treated like it's dirty." But yes, I strongly believe that sex is intimate and highly personal and should not be for public consumption by people who don't choose to witness or be present when someone else is having sex. (Hey, if you're a suburban swinger, that's your deal.)

To respond to a couple of the questions you raise - yes, I think that anyone who is living in "one room apartments, rvs, tents, school busses, yurts, basements at their parents house" should find somewhere away from their children to have sex. If that means that "you have to let your child go and stay with someone else for a few hours just so you can DTD in your own space" then again, yes. I've lived in studio apartments, shared houses with friends and shared tents with other people. And FWIW, I can't think of a single person is my group of friends who would be OK with the idea of a "tentmate" having sex with someone a couple of feet away from them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> There seems to be a lot of talk amongst the mamas who dont think people should be DTD in the same room or bed with their kiddos about culture or what is okay in "our" culture. What about people who live in one room apartments, rvs, tents, school busses, yurts, basements at their parents house, ect.? There are lots and lots of "American" families that live that kind of lifestyle. SO, they should never have sex in their own space? If you live in an RV you should only have sex when you go out into the woods and find a hidden place? If you live in a one room apartment you have to let your child go and stay with someone else for a few hours just so you can DTD in your own space? Jeeze, in my circle of friends sex is something that is not to be hidden away and treated like its dirty.
> 
> As for the PP who said they would be so so offended if they went to another country and were exposed to people having sex:
> 
> Have you ever been to the park in San Fransisco?
> 
> Have you ever lived in a communal house?
> 
> Have you ever lived in a dorm room?
> 
> There are tons and tons of places right here in this country where people are exposed to sex all.the.time. Ill bet just in my youth Ive seen at least 5 couples having sex (and not because I was there to watch). For some people, its really not that abnormal to go on a camping trip and realize that people are doing it in the tent you are sharing.
> 
> Honestly, Id be a lot more worried about my kid watching a tv commercial that implies all the bad things about sex than I would about them waking up and seeing me on top of their father.


----------



## Pirogi

JMHO, but I see a difference between an adult unwillingly/unwittingly witnessing others having sex, and an infant/child too young to understand what is going on and asleep in the room while his/her parents have sex.


----------



## OdinsMommy0409

deleted


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> If you were reported for sex with a baby in bed with you, the question you'd be asked as an answer to the bolded is 'why, if you didn't want to move your baby off the bed, couldn't you move to the floor/couch/bathroom/wherever instead'
> 
> People are very sensitive to child abuse/sexual abuse. Its one thing to have a sound asleep baby in the room but on a separate sleeping surface while you quietly have sex but people will find it a completely different thing to have sex with baby practically sharing the same pillow. Whether or not the baby was involved with the sex or was sound asleep and had zero clue (and wasn't even old enough to understand were they wide awake anyway) people would struggle to believe you really were just having sex as if baby wasn't there even though baby was.
> 
> People struggle to understand co sleeping as it is. I'm all for it personally but we all know how people sometimes have to hide that they co sleep at all because people think it is really dangerous or will screw a kid up by not being 'independent.' Sex is always the first thing I ever see asked when co sleeping comes up. Every single time. and every single time the argument is 'you don't have to have sex in bed.' People against co sleeping or not even so sure about it are going to assume co sleeping and sex are not mixed. When they hear it has been by having sex with a baby next to the couple in bed, they are going to jump to conclusions... because people are very sensitive about child abuse/sexual abuse.
> 
> I'm sure the people in this thread who say they have or have had sex with their child in bed with them were doing so quietly so as not to wake baby because I'm going to assume anyone doing something wrong wouldn't say so so publicly however I am alternative enough to recognize that. Most people are not going to be. Ask on a more mainstream forum the same question of co sleeping and sex... in the same bed at the same time... and I can almost guarantee people will flip. I personally can't blame them.. I don't see a single reason why I would ever need to have sex with my child able to roll right into me during. People will want to know why baby couldn't be placed elsewhere when they went to sleep or why the parents couldn't have planned for sex at a better time or why the parents couldn't have had sex elsewhere. People will assume that purposely not choosing another route is highly questionable because very few people don't have other options. Even in the one room apartment I used to live in, I still had a separate bathroom... and had sex in it too. That is how most people will think.


Ok maybe I am overreacting here but I am just going to ask if you are telling me that by having DD asleep as a 4 month old in a SIDE CARRED crib that I am sexually abusing my child? Just so we are clear here and I can go on with this conversation without going uav and getting into trouble. Not that I really wanted to go here but as someone who has dealt with sexual abuse as a child, on a personal level this is making my stomach do really unpleasant back flips. I don't understand if that is what you are saying by what you wrote but that is what it reads to me. I am going to back away and think about this whole conversation and try to figure out if I am overreacting or what.


----------



## To-Fu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *peainthepod*
> 
> I can't really get out of mama mode if my babies are even in the same room, so we use the guest room bed or living room sofa with baby monitors on. I can't even imagine being able to relax enough to have sex while my child was in the bed with us. No way.


This is me, too. The bed in our room is pretty much just for sleeping now, and that's okay. It won't last forever!


----------



## Adaline'sMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirogi*
> 
> JMHO, but I see a difference between an adult unwillingly/unwittingly witnessing others having sex, and an infant/child too young to understand what is going on and asleep in the room while his/her parents have sex.


I think there is a huge difference, and I wasnt attempting to say that they are the same. I am just pointing out to the PP who said that they would be offended if they went to other cultures and were "exposed" to other people having sex they would have a real problem with it. My point is only that you dont have to go to another country. There are plenty of places here in the US that dont keep sex 100% private.

I think that it is absurd to suggest that people in one room apartments should have to go somewhere else or get a sitter to have sex. Seriously? So people who can only afford a one room apartment shouldnt be able to have sex 2-3 times a week if they so desire? I, for one, will tell you that my marriage would take a huge hit if we had to pay for a sitter everytime we wanted to DTD. What kind of healthy marriage is that child going to grow up in? It seems to me that its pretty classist to make the statement that someone shouldnt be able to have a normal, healthy sex life if they cant afford more than one room or pay for a sitter.

I have to say I 100% agree with the PP who pointed out that sex when a baby you are 9 months pregnant is really no different than when it is 2 months old. Except for one thing- a two month old is asleep when it happens, and there is no way you can know if the fetus is.


----------



## To-Fu

Just a friendly mod reminder to keep the conversation civil here. Things seem generally okay so far, but there are some tricky waters being navigated in some posts.


----------



## treeoflife3

No I'm not saying that at all... but I reckon many people out there would... which has been my whole point. No, you can't talk about this with just anyone. Moreover, not everyone in this thread has said the baby was in a side carred crib... some specifically stated the baby had just unlatched from nursing (I don't intend to call anyone out here, its just a point I'm making) and yes, many people out there would be absolutely horrified by that and would absolutely call cps for child abuse. Whether you like it or not, sex and babies are very taboo. It can't be talked about and babies right next to mom while she is having marital fun does make me very uncomfortable regardless of the reasoning for the baby being there. I wouldn't call cps just for that, definitely not but yes... many people out there would. Tell a mainstream forum you have sex with your baby on the same mattress (although I'm sure there will be similar responses for a side carred crib, but I specifically intend to discuss baby on the same mattress) and there would be an outcry. Our culture tries hard to keep the lines between sex and babies separate (I've been in a few discussions on mainstream forums about orgasmic birth and let me tell you, the responses were nothing like the folks who think nursing beyond a certain age is just for certain benefits for mom!) so having the baby RIGHT THERE during the act would open up an investigation more than likely... and like I said, anyone would be very hard pressed to explain why they couldn't have the baby elsewhere or why they couldn't have sex elsewhere. Its going to be a very very hard sell... co sleeping alone is a hard sell... look at how many threads are about having a sleeping space for each human in the house. Sex during co sleeping is exactly what many people are concerned about... which again, is why it is always the FIRST question that comes up. 'but what about sex?'

It doesn't matter what I think.. the point is, if you have sex with the baby in bed with you, you'd best not tell anyone unless you are SURE they will 'get it.' I reckon not too many would. the fourth trimester is something many don't believe in either.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> Ok maybe I am overreacting here but I am just going to ask if you are telling me that by having DD asleep as a 4 month old in a SIDE CARRED crib that I am sexually abusing my child? Just so we are clear here and I can go on with this conversation without going uav and getting into trouble. Not that I really wanted to go here but as someone who has dealt with sexual abuse as a child, on a personal level this is making my stomach do really unpleasant back flips. I don't understand if that is what you are saying by what you wrote but that is what it reads to me. I am going to back away and think about this whole conversation and try to figure out if I am overreacting or what.


----------



## sosurreal09

I for one am completely freaked out by orgasmic birth!


----------



## Ldavis24

ok thank you for clarifying. I was practically having a panic attack over this whole conversation last night. It struck a very very sensitive nerve with me.

I actually agree with you on most of your points about the average mainstream mama freaking out about hearing something like DTD in the same bed as LO. I can definitely see that happening even within my own family. They always ask if we are "still" co-sleeping. Your comfort level is just different than mine I guess but it makes me very uncomfortable still people here describe it so negatively sometimes, that is just my own issue though nobody else's, something I need to get over obviously.

I will agree with the PP who pointed out that a lot of people live in a one bedroom apartment because they can't afford more and insisting that they cannot DTD in even the same room as their LO is pretty ridiculous. Like I said before, we live in a loft and excuse me of I don't want to have sex in my bathroom every time DH and I are in the mood. I know we aren't supposed to discuss the different cultural aspect of this whole conversation but so many people around the world and in this country included live in incredibly small spaces with maybe 1 or 2 rooms. Somehow they manage to make babies while already having babies and nobody is getting accused of any sexual misconduct with their kids. I myself am totally capable of separating what my DH and I do completely from my DD even if she is asleep in the same room.

Anyway I will apologize for getting heated earlier, I certainly don't want to go UAV on anyone!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> No I'm not saying that at all... but I reckon many people out there would... which has been my whole point. No, you can't talk about this with just anyone. Moreover, not everyone in this thread has said the baby was in a side carred crib... some specifically stated the baby had just unlatched from nursing (I don't intend to call anyone out here, its just a point I'm making) and yes, many people out there would be absolutely horrified by that and would absolutely call cps for child abuse. Whether you like it or not, sex and babies are very taboo. It can't be talked about and babies right next to mom while she is having marital fun does make me very uncomfortable regardless of the reasoning for the baby being there. I wouldn't call cps just for that, definitely not but yes... many people out there would. Tell a mainstream forum you have sex with your baby on the same mattress (although I'm sure there will be similar responses for a side carred crib, but I specifically intend to discuss baby on the same mattress) and there would be an outcry. Our culture tries hard to keep the lines between sex and babies separate (I've been in a few discussions on mainstream forums about orgasmic birth and let me tell you, the responses were nothing like the folks who think nursing beyond a certain age is just for certain benefits for mom!) so having the baby RIGHT THERE during the act would open up an investigation more than likely... and like I said, anyone would be very hard pressed to explain why they couldn't have the baby elsewhere or why they couldn't have sex elsewhere. Its going to be a very very hard sell... co sleeping alone is a hard sell... look at how many threads are about having a sleeping space for each human in the house. Sex during co sleeping is exactly what many people are concerned about... which again, is why it is always the FIRST question that comes up. 'but what about sex?'
> 
> It doesn't matter what I think.. the point is, if you have sex with the baby in bed with you, you'd best not tell anyone unless you are SURE they will 'get it.' I reckon not too many would. the fourth trimester is something many don't believe in either.


----------



## slylives

And I think there is something very wrong with having sex while your children are in the room. It has nothing to with "classism" or snobbery or the ability to pay for more than one room, just the belief that sometimes as parents we need to make sacrifices when it comes to our children. And yes - I absolutely believe that if you sleep in the same room as your child, you need to figure out a way to be intimate when they are not present. Whether that means asking a friend to watch the kids for a few hours, or being intimate in the bathroom, etc, is the parents' call.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> I think that it is absurd to suggest that people in one room apartments should have to go somewhere else or get a sitter to have sex. Seriously? So people who can only afford a one room apartment shouldnt be able to have sex 2-3 times a week if they so desire? I, for one, will tell you that my marriage would take a huge hit if we had to pay for a sitter everytime we wanted to DTD. What kind of healthy marriage is that child going to grow up in? It seems to me that its pretty classist to make the statement that someone shouldnt be able to have a normal, healthy sex life if they cant afford more than one room or pay for a sitter.


----------



## Ldavis24

can you just clarify what is "very wrong" about it? Like the idea that your baby might wake up and see mommy and daddy laying on top of each other? Or that baby might wake up and here mommy and daddy making noises? I am asking seriously because I find it so strange that it is very wrong. Like I said what if you live in a loft and don't feel like having sex on your bathroom floor but on your couch which technically is in the same room as the bed. I mean do you think you are going to negatively impact them? I can see that being a concern even if I myself don't see it being an accurate one. Do you pe think your baby will remember you DTD near them? Or is it a personal comfort level type thing, like you cannot imagine doing it yourself so therefore it is very wrong for anyone else to do it? Not trying to be snarky but saying it is "VERY WRONG" to DTD even in the same room as your LO implies that you are involving them in some way and I find that pretty offensive.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> And I think there is something very wrong with having sex while your children are in the room. It has nothing to with "classism" or snobbery or the ability to pay for more than one room, just the belief that sometimes as parents we need to make sacrifices when it comes to our children. And yes - I absolutely believe that if you sleep in the same room as your child, you need to figure out a way to be intimate when they are not present. Whether that means asking a friend to watch the kids for a few hours, or being intimate in the bathroom, etc, is the parents' call.


----------



## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> No I'm not saying that at all... but I reckon many people out there would... which has been my whole point. No, you can't talk about this with just anyone. Moreover, not everyone in this thread has said the baby was in a side carred crib... some specifically stated the baby had just unlatched from nursing (I don't intend to call anyone out here, its just a point I'm making) and yes, many people out there would be absolutely horrified by that and would absolutely call cps for child abuse. Whether you like it or not, sex and babies are very taboo. It can't be talked about and babies right next to mom while she is having marital fun does make me very uncomfortable regardless of the reasoning for the baby being there. I wouldn't call cps just for that, definitely not but yes... many people out there would. Tell a mainstream forum you have sex with your baby on the same mattress (although I'm sure there will be similar responses for a side carred crib, but I specifically intend to discuss baby on the same mattress) and there would be an outcry. Our culture tries hard to keep the lines between sex and babies separate (I've been in a few discussions on mainstream forums about orgasmic birth and let me tell you, the responses were nothing like the folks who think nursing beyond a certain age is just for certain benefits for mom!) so having the baby RIGHT THERE during the act would open up an investigation more than likely... and like I said, anyone would be very hard pressed to explain why they couldn't have the baby elsewhere or why they couldn't have sex elsewhere. Its going to be a very very hard sell... co sleeping alone is a hard sell... look at how many threads are about having a sleeping space for each human in the house. Sex during co sleeping is exactly what many people are concerned about... which again, is why it is always the FIRST question that comes up. 'but what about sex?'
> 
> It doesn't matter what I think.. the point is, if you have sex with the baby in bed with you, you'd best not tell anyone unless you are SURE they will 'get it.' I reckon not too many would. the fourth trimester is something many don't believe in either.


Whose culture is "our" culture? I think it's very easy to forget that there are mamas from all o er the world of many different faiths, cultures and classes so it might be helpful for people to reference their perspective if we are going to effectively weave culture into this conversation - which I feel is almost essential.

Not to pull the thread further off topic but it is curious to me how being a sexual person and a mother can sometimes be treated as taboo on MDC. Maybe that's a thread I'll start for further pondering....


----------



## treeoflife3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sfcmama*
> Whose culture is "our" culture? I think it's very easy to forget that there are mamas from all o er the world of many different faiths, cultures and classes so it might be helpful for people to reference their perspective if we are going to effectively weave culture into this conversation - which I feel is almost essential.
> 
> Not to pull the thread further off topic but it is curious to me how being a sexual person and a mother can sometimes be treated as taboo on MDC. Maybe that's a thread I'll start for further pondering....


I am under the impression that the majority of the people on MDC are American/Canadian or within a similar culture. Yes, I'm sure there are people from all over the world but the majority of people on this website are going to be from a place where telling the wrong person they have sex with a baby in their bed could lead to government involvement and a hard time trying to explain why the baby was there. I'm not going to speak to every single person instead of the general... that would be thoroughly too difficult. My point still stands; if you have sex with a baby in your bed and you don't have the benefit of living in a place where that is the norm, then yes you should be very careful about who you share that information with.


----------



## FaithF

When my DD was first born, she co-slept with us for the first 6+ months. If we wanted to have sex, we would sorta corral her within some pillows, just in case she did wake up and turn to see. I'm definitely not cool with my kid actually seeing me have sex. However, from her earliest existence inside my womb, she is familiar with the sounds of lovemaking. It is something as normal to her as hearing me laugh or cry. We eventually moved her to a toddler bed in our own room and she is now 3 1/2. One time DH and I did choose to have sex in the shower while she was napping because sometimes, we feel like having more privacy. Once we finished, we hear a little voice go "Guys, what are you doing?". Lol. I peer out of the shower and she's sitting on the potty. We didn't know that she had woken up, let herself into the bathroom and decided to go pee. Another time, we did put her in a bed in a different room and when we were done, we open our door and she was laying on the ground outside our door. So there is no escaping your child hearing you have sex, but let me once again reiterate, those noises to your child are completely NORMAL and they've heard these noises since inside the womb. She hasn't asked about sex at this point. But when she does, I'm okay with that. She has been learning about privacy and private parts, etc. and now I think this is my own internal signal to put her in her own room. Because yes, what DH and I do is private. However I guarantee that when she's in her own room, IF she happens to wake up, she's STILL going to hear us. So that's our family's view on this matter. Thanks to everyone else for their views! This is definitely a tricky issue and something I had a difficult time figuring out in the beginning.


----------



## Storm Bride

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know what responses have been posted.

If I didn't have ds1, we'd just have sex in the living room, instead of the bedroom. As nobody involved wants the 17 year old walking in on his mom and stepdad having sex, we don'tdo that. However, i find the bedroom floor works just fine. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex in the bed while the baby is sleeping, but if your dh is bothered by it, then the vibe isn't going to work, yk? And, the motion could wake up the baby, too...which is probably the part that would bother me. I'm not sure, but I get the feeling this is your only child? If so, then I'd just take the sex somewhere else. No law that says it has to be in a bed.

I also want to mention that having a new baby affects the sex life, even if you're not bedsharing, and I think that applies evey if you keep your libido. There is another person to focus on, and that does shift the interpersonal dynamics. It's possible (not saying it's the case) that your dh is perceving bed sharing as being the issue, when the real issue is the adjustments that come from having a baby at all. (I'm only saying this because of the part of your post about asking him to maintain the sex life, but things didn't change. He may not be as immersed in/adjusted to the baby's presence in your lives and home, never mind bed, as you are.)

I can't help you on the side-carring and such. We've never done that. I have dd1, when I was pregnant with ds2, sleep in a Pack & Play beside the bed. That disrupted my sleep differently than bedsharing, but not really any more than bedsharing. DD1 was a very restless sleeper and wiggled so much in bed that I tended to be half awake a lot. When she moved to the Pack and Play, I had to actually get up and fully wake up to feed her and put her back...but then I could fully sleep when I got back in bed. It's different for everyone, I think.


----------



## scottishmommy

We've never DTD with dd on the bed, but it doesn't bother me that other people do. I mean a baby isn't gonna know the difference ya know? I am very surprised that pp think that people shouldn't have sex in the same room as their babies or young toddlers. I feel like it's pretty common, even in mainstream American culture to do that. In fact I remember an episode of Sex and the City when one the characters is having sex only to see her baby standing up in his crib watching. There is also a commercial for a fertility monitor where a couple is going at it only to hear their baby giggling in his crib. So I don't think it's really that taboo to have sex in the same room as a sleeping baby.


----------



## seawitch

Now I feel like the weirdo out of the bunch. When the kids were co-sleeping we generally just DTD whenever they were asleep. With DS, who was a really light sleeper, that usually meant he was in a sidecarred mattress. DD was a really deep sleeper as long as I was near her and she would be on the other side of the bed typically, or sometimes on a sheepskin on the floor when she was a bit older. Often that was the only way to do it. If I left the room to try to do it in the living room, or tried to move her to a pack and play or something she would wake up and then that would ruin the moment. A sleeping baby didn't ruin any mood for me. DH was more concerned about DTD when I was heavily pregnant because "it felt like a threesome" to him w the baby inside but as soon as the baby was on the outside it didn't bother him either.


----------



## Pirogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> We've never DTD with dd on the bed, but it doesn't bother me that other people do. I mean a baby isn't gonna know the difference ya know? I am very surprised that pp think that people shouldn't have sex in the same room as their babies or young toddlers. I feel like it's pretty common, even in mainstream American culture to do that. In fact I remember an episode of Sex and the City when one the characters is having sex only to see her baby standing up in his crib watching. There is also a commercial for a fertility monitor where a couple is going at it only to hear their baby giggling in his crib. So I don't think it's really that taboo to have sex in the same room as a sleeping baby.


"Brady can't be anywhere near this conversation!" "I think it's too late, he just said, 'Sex is dirty!'"









There was also that caricatured couple in Away We Go ...

I think this is a good point ... it would be helpful if someone who actually works for CPS could answer the question of if it would be a problem to find out that a couple has sex with small children in the same room/on the bed. There is a lot of assuming going on about this highly charged topic. And perhaps this wasn't the intention, but there is a vibe going on that since (if?) a child protective services government agency would condemn the practice, then it is therefore morally wrong. I dunno ... I don't hold much stock in what any government agency thinks. Understandably I will do everything in my power to keep CPS away, but that's because I see them as a potential nuisance to my family, not because I agree that I am doing anything harmful to my children. I don't talk about my sex life with anyone I know IRL, just because that isn't something I consider a valid topic of conversation, not because I am afraid of CPS.

I still haven't seen anyone address WHY they feel it's wrong for a couple to have sex in the same room/same bed as a child, in terms of its impact on the child.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pirogi*
> 
> "Brady can't be anywhere near this conversation!" "I think it's too late, he just said, 'Sex is dirty!'"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was also that caricatured couple in Away We Go ...
> 
> I think this is a good point ... it would be helpful if someone who actually works for CPS could answer the question of if it would be a problem to find out that a couple has sex with small children in the same room/on the bed. There is a lot of assuming going on about this highly charged topic. And perhaps this wasn't the intention, but there is a vibe going on that since (if?) a child protective services government agency would condemn the practice, then it is therefore morally wrong. I dunno ... I don't hold much stock in what any government agency thinks. Understandably I will do everything in my power to keep CPS away, but that's because I see them as a potential nuisance to my family, not because I agree that I am doing anything harmful to my children. I don't talk about my sex life with anyone I know IRL, just because that isn't something I consider a valid topic of conversation, not because I am afraid of CPS.
> 
> *I still haven't seen anyone address WHY they feel it's wrong for a couple to have sex in the same room/same bed as a child, in terms of its impact on the child*.


I too have been waiting for this question to be addressed because I don't feel that way at all. I have no point of reference where those feelings would be coming from but I am really interested about it....Maybe I am the only one who has pets that find DTD incredibly interesting but they have been a bigger problem for us when we are actually DTD than DD has ever been....Dog licking feet, cats perched on the end of the bed etc.


----------



## Sfcmama

I work with CPS (family therapist) in California, not for them and they are to consider if practices are of cultural norm for the family. For example, the Chinese medicine technique of cupping leave marks on a child (a big no no by general standards) but is completely within normal limits for the culture. HOWEVER, rules are enforced by imperfect people within the systems of power and oppression so personal values often prevent objective decisions from being made.

This is a large reason why I'm so triggered by this topic. It's really hard to see families judged so harshly by people of authority when they are just living within their economic means or cultural traditions or even just what is the best they can do. Arguments for removal are often made for "overcrowding" which is often just ridiculous when compared to the living conditions of other countries!

Back to the topic, I'm still wondering what the harm is of a very young child sleeping in the same room...?

Two cents from a social worker.


----------



## LiLStar

I see an assumption in this thread that sex either involves "sex noises" or "there is a specific effort to be quiet" for some people, "noisy" sex doesn't come naturally. Honestly dh and I are more likely to chit chat/crack jokes! Thats just our style  We don't moan or make any noises that we'd feel uncomfortable making in polite company! So a king size bed, baby on their side, parents on their side, being quiet to not wake the baby, in a dark room, possibly under covers, and ready to end (or pause, haha) the activity if the baby (or, *gasp* toddler) starts stirring? I don't see the big deal. I think I would draw an "age" line, however. Not a black and white age, but little ones will start fussing to nurse before they even realize they're awake, but preschoolers would be more inclined to open their eyes and look around quietly without making a sound. So I do think the "sleep style" of the child makes a difference. No way would I dtd in the same room as sleeping dd! She could wake up and see something she needn't see before we even realize she's awake.


----------



## Adaline'sMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treeoflife3*
> 
> I am under the impression that the majority of the people on MDC are American/Canadian or within a similar culture. Yes, I'm sure there are people from all over the world but the majority of people on this website are going to be from a place where telling the wrong person they have sex with a baby in their bed could lead to government involvement and a hard time trying to explain why the baby was there. I'm not going to speak to every single person instead of the general... that would be thoroughly too difficult. My point still stands; if you have sex with a baby in your bed and you don't have the benefit of living in a place where that is the norm, then yes you should be very careful about who you share that information with.


I think its pretty presumptious for you to assume that, even though we live in the same country, we are of the same culture. I have considered myself part of a subculture since I was about 13 years old. The subculture Ive considered myself a part of has changed over the years, including and up to the subculture that something similar to "natural living."

We can agree to disagree about the opinions about sex in the family bed, but I will not agree that we all live in the same culture just because we reside in the same country.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adaline'sMama*
> 
> I think its pretty presumptious for you to assume that, even though we live in the same country, we are of the same culture. I have considered myself part of a subculture since I was about 13 years old. The subculture Ive considered myself a part of has changed over the years, including and up to the subculture that something similar to "natural living."
> 
> We can agree to disagree about the opinions about sex in the family bed, but I will not agree that we all live in the same culture just because we reside in the same country.


But, the poster you're quoting was talking about the culture from the perspective of potential government interference in people's lives. Being part of a subculture doesn't create a CPS free zone.


----------



## princesstutu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> I for one am completely freaked out by orgasmic birth!


I had an orgasmic birth *and* I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time.

Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.

OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


----------



## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> I had an orgasmic birth *and* I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time.
> 
> Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.
> 
> OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


Now THAT'S what I call multi-tasking! Lol.
My sense is that making love with baby near (cosleeping or not) is the global norm but a western taboo. Thanks for your honesty!


----------



## Agatha_Ann

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> I had an orgasmic birth *and* *I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time*.
> 
> Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.
> 
> OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


I've seen people say this in threads of this nature in the past and it kind of blows my mind how some mamas can fulfill two roles at the same time like that. I can fully appreciate the dual roles of my breasts to be both nuturing to my child and sexual to my husband, but I don't think I am capable of both happening at the same time. Personally, I automatically detach (literally and figuratively) from being a nursing mother to enjoy my breasts in a sexual way, and my breasts become completely nonsexual when I am feeding a baby. I just could not cross the two and it surprises me when I hear of women who can.


----------



## StrongFeather

we use our spare guest room, which has a bed. Takes a bit more planning (as we have to heat the room  But DH (and I too for that matter) are uncomfortable with sex in the family bed.


----------



## Ldavis24

More power to you mama!

my breasts/nipples have become so desensitized due to DD nursing and pulling on them that I can literally twist my nipple around 3 or 4 times without feeling a thing, sorry TMI....DH is sad that they aren't really sensitive to anything anymore, maybe when I am done nursing DD they will regain some of their former sensitivity.

H and I have tried the fooling around thing while DD was nursing but it always startled me if she would open her eyes and suddenly be staring at us. Poor DH was thoroughly freaked out the couple of times that happened so now we generally stick to her being asleep to enjoy each other.

I have to wonder how much people's personal religion plays into their discomfort with even DTD in the same room as their LO. If your religion is generally teaching you that sex is not such a great thing (I'm thinking of my Catholic upbringing here, just my own personal experience) then how could one possibly be comfortable with any sexual expression in front of their LO even if the LO is sleeping? We are all Atheists in this household so it doesn't factor in but I imagine it must for a lot of people here on MDC.



> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> I had an orgasmic birth *and* I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time.
> 
> Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.
> 
> OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


----------



## lalaland42

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> I had an orgasmic birth *and* *I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time. *
> 
> Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.
> 
> OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


Trying to picture the logistics of this. nak


----------



## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> More power to you mama!
> 
> my breasts/nipples have become so desensitized due to DD nursing and pulling on them that I can literally twist my nipple around 3 or 4 times without feeling a thing, sorry TMI....DH is sad that they aren't really sensitive to anything anymore, maybe when I am done nursing DD they will regain some of their former sensitivity.
> 
> H and I have tried the fooling around thing while DD was nursing but it always startled me if she would open her eyes and suddenly be staring at us. Poor DH was thoroughly freaked out the couple of times that happened so now we generally stick to her being asleep to enjoy each other.
> 
> I have to wonder how much people's personal religion plays into their discomfort with even DTD in the same room as their LO. If your religion is generally teaching you that sex is not such a great thing (I'm thinking of my Catholic upbringing here, just my own personal experience) then how could one possibly be comfortable with any sexual expression in front of their LO even if the LO is sleeping? We are all Atheists in this household so it doesn't factor in but I imagine it must for a lot of people here on MDC.


I wonder if the term "doing the deed" has something to do with that - like it's some sort of unenjoyable chore. Lordess knows I'd rather make love with dh than wash the dishes most any day!


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> I had an orgasmic birth *and* I've had plenty of sex with a baby nursing at the same time.
> 
> Sex is a normal part of life. Anyone who finds certain, normal behaviors indecent shouldn't participate in those normal behaviors.
> 
> OP, I hope you and your dh have figured out a way to enjoy sex with a child around. I had 4 babies in 5 years, so my dh learned to take it where and when he could get it. LOL


Orgasmic birth is fine, but I happen to think that having sex while nursing is highly inappropriate, and would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain to CPS.

Yes, sex is a normal part of life. It's also a very intimate part of life that does not need to be public, or involve our children. And yes, I do believe that having sex while nursing (with a baby literally attached to your boob) is involving an infant in your sex life in an inappropriate way. I find it very disturbing that people actually DO this, and then admit to it.


----------



## LiLStar

Yeah.. I definitely draw the line at nursing. If we're interrupted by a baby, and said baby needs to be nursed back to sleep, dh is more than welcome to give me a back/foot rub if he can't keep his hands to himself, but nothing more sexual than that is allowed until baby is done, asleep, and I've managed to put some distance between us!


----------



## seawitch

Never mind.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sfcmama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> More power to you mama!
> 
> my breasts/nipples have become so desensitized due to DD nursing and pulling on them that I can literally twist my nipple around 3 or 4 times without feeling a thing, sorry TMI....DH is sad that they aren't really sensitive to anything anymore, maybe when I am done nursing DD they will regain some of their former sensitivity.
> 
> H and I have tried the fooling around thing while DD was nursing but it always startled me if she would open her eyes and suddenly be staring at us. Poor DH was thoroughly freaked out the couple of times that happened so now we generally stick to her being asleep to enjoy each other.
> 
> I have to wonder how much people's personal religion plays into their discomfort with even DTD in the same room as their LO. If your religion is generally teaching you that sex is not such a great thing (I'm thinking of my Catholic upbringing here, just my own personal experience) then how could one possibly be comfortable with any sexual expression in front of their LO even if the LO is sleeping? We are all Atheists in this household so it doesn't factor in but I imagine it must for a lot of people here on MDC.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the term "doing the deed" has something to do with that - like it's some sort of unenjoyable chore. Lordess knows I'd rather make love with dh than wash the dishes most any day!
Click to expand...

hmm never thought about it actually. I just always type it myself as I find it is short and easy and everyone knows what it means.

At this point I just don't want to judge anyone for what they do or don't do. I seriously doubt if a mama is willing to say what she and her DH are comfortable with in regard to this whole topic do any of you really think someone is doing something wrong to their baby? I seriously doubt it. I find that if anything the mamas on here are generally far more concerned with trying to be the best parent they can be than just your average joe on the street. In fact I'd say we all tend to get a bit obsessive about trying to parent as best as we possibly can! I feel like it is something most mamas have in common here and within this particular thread I just know that we all have our kids best interests at heart...Hmm this isn't as clear as I want it to be but maybe someone gets my point.

edited to add that I will admit to sleeping naked as well. Although DH doesn't and DD almost always sleeps in between us so the chances of nighttime canoodling of any kind are zero. I also don't like to be coddled in my sleep, an issue that stems from childhood and DH knows this so the only one who gets cuddles is DD!


----------



## seawitch

I tend to agree with this. I have a very positive, earth-based spirituality where sex is called The Gift of Pleasure and is considered one of the most sacred acts, one of the most important gifts from the Divine, and very life-affirming.

I used to be a smoker back in college and after the kids were born there were a couple of weeks when I was really stressed and reverted back to smoking a couple of cigarettes. (Didn't last long!) Anyway, even though the kids were really too young to "get it" I felt SO guilty doing it in front of them, totally ashamed and dirty! I guess if I had any guilty hangups about sexual expression perhaps that would factor into not wanting to do it around a baby, sleeping or not. But marital affection does not strike me as something to have to hide from kids. I'm not saying to just put it all out there and break it out on the living room couch after dessert - privacy is still important and I wouldn't want to expose them to anything that made them uncomfortable - but I don't think it's anything that should be, I dunno. Segregated to the bathroom floor just because an infant might be exposed to it while he is sleeping. That's bizarre to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I have to wonder how much people's personal religion plays into their discomfort with even DTD in the same room as their LO. If your religion is generally teaching you that sex is not such a great thing (I'm thinking of my Catholic upbringing here, just my own personal experience) then how could one possibly be comfortable with any sexual expression in front of their LO even if the LO is sleeping? We are all Atheists in this household so it doesn't factor in but I imagine it must for a lot of people here on MDC.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagnoliaDragon*
> 
> FWIW not everyone's love making involves boobs. I for one have VERY sensitive breasts and esp. nipples, much to DH's dismay. The poor man is never allowed to touch or play with them - it hurts. Nursing babies are fine, and (TMI) even DH's mouth is alright, but hands, no. (Kids have the same rule, they can't twiddle, etc.) So for ME personally breasts aren't sexual. There's never a moment of "oh gosh I have to shut down my mommy mode to become wife mode" or vice versa. Granted if I hear a kiddo fussing in another room I get turned off in a second until I make sure everything is OK with them - it's not like I'm this sex crazed lady who would rather have sex than be mommy. But if the baby or child's needs are being met, whether they're two feet or two rooms away, it's all the same to me. (Obviously this only goes if they're asleep - there's no way I could have sex with a wakeful baby nearby. I can barely even have a quickie if there's awake kids happily occuppied elsewhere in the house.)


I didn't mean to imply that breasts are always sexual. I was saying that when a child is physically attached to a person, after being born, sex should wait until the child is no longer physically attached. When a child is nursing, they are physically attached to the womans boob, and I don't think its in the least bit appropriate for a couple to have sex while a child is nursing. Just like a woman who was bottle feeding her baby wouldn't be feeding her kid while having sex, a nursing mother shouldn't be multi-tasking to that degree either. I find it pretty disturbing that people are actually OK with that.


----------



## La Sombra

I think this is a very interesting post that raises questions both practical and philosophical. I already addressed the practical aspects, but now (and forgive me that this is a bit tangential to the discussion at hand!) I'd like to talk a bit about one of the philosophical aspects.

Which is, I wanted to say that one thing that irks me is what I feel is an over-reliance on the whole West/non-West argument. That is, when people (especially within the natural family community because we tend to be especially defensive of our at-times unconventional choices) say something along the lines of, "Oh, that's just how we do it in the WEST (or the U.S., as is sometimes similarly invoked), but no one else is the world does that!"

The problem I have with this argument is that:

a) I think it's a bit offensive because it implies that a basic short-sightenedness on the part of the person who follows whatever "Western" or "American" norm is under question, and ignores the possibility that they are making a decision every bit as conscientious as the person who is doing it the "non-Western" way. (ie, just because I don't feel comfortable making love whilst nursing doesn't necessarily mean that I'm close-minded or bound up in my own repressive cultural norms)

b) It is really reductive because there is SOMETIMES (not in all the cases that this argument is invoked!) the patronizing (even racist) implication that "non-Western" people somehow have a better grasp of what it is to live a close to our human instincts as possible--this is offensive because it either implies that certain people ("Westerners") don't have access to that kind of intuition naturally OR (worse) is embedded with a sort of camouflaged racism not even perceived by the person repeating this trope--because what is the implication? That non-Westerners are somehow closer to their animal instincts because they aren't saddled with all of the knowledge and science and modernity that "Westerners" are?

and finally:

c) it depends on binaries that are in themselves problematic and in many of the cases that they are raised, not very well understood. That is, what do we mean when we say, "Well, that's just how we do it in THE WEST. No one does it like that outside of the west." Because I must ask in all earnestness, What are we referring to, exactly, when we say The West? Are we referring to specific instances of cultural differences that we understand well (in Russia they do this, in Azerbaijan they do that, and I know that because of X), or are we simply invoking a vague notion of cultural differences that we think must exist and which serve our argument?

To the last point I will say that I have traveled a lot throughout Europe and Asia (and the US and Canada!) and I have been fascinated by cultural practices different from my own. But I have also been surprised at some of the similarities. I spent a lot of time in Europe, I lived for several years in Asia and traveled extensively throughout SE Asia and I have been married to men of two different European countries. I also study languages and culture full-time (Spanish and Chinese). And I am naturally skeptical when people sort of casually toss off this whole "West," "non-West" argument. I believe that a point can be made without relying on this argument--and oftentimes a point that is more elegant and carefully considered.

I guess, ultimately, my point is that I would love to see us in this community continue to probe these kinds of questions, but perhaps being more thoughtful and careful in some of our responses!


----------



## La Sombra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sfcmama*
> 
> I work with CPS (family therapist) in California, not for them and they are to consider if practices are of cultural norm for the family. For example, the Chinese medicine technique of cupping leave marks on a child (a big no no by general standards) but is completely within normal limits for the culture. HOWEVER, rules are enforced by imperfect people within the systems of power and oppression so personal values often prevent objective decisions from being made.
> 
> This is a large reason why I'm so triggered by this topic. It's really hard to see families judged so harshly by people of authority when they are just living within their economic means or cultural traditions or even just what is the best they can do. Arguments for removal are often made for "overcrowding" which is often just ridiculous when compared to the living conditions of other countries!
> 
> Back to the topic, I'm still wondering what the harm is of a very young child sleeping in the same room...?
> 
> Two cents from a social worker.


I just wanted to say, in light of my comment above, that I find your post very thoughtful and specific and you address cultural differences in a way that opens up the discussion and introduces nuances for us to think about!

Having said that, do you think that the debate *here* about feeling comfortable dtd with babies/toddlers in the room (or indeed whilst nursing them) or not is divided along cultural lines? I haven't so far gotten that impression myself...


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I have to wonder how much people's personal religion plays into their discomfort with even DTD in the same room as their LO. If your religion is generally teaching you that sex is not such a great thing (I'm thinking of my Catholic upbringing here, just my own personal experience) then how could one possibly be comfortable with any sexual expression in front of their LO even if the LO is sleeping? We are all Atheists in this household so it doesn't factor in but I imagine it must for a lot of people here on MDC.


I'm not religious. And my parents were affectionate towards each other around me and my brothers growing up - I don't think all marital affection should be hidden. I do think though, that sex is an intimate act between 2 consenting adults, with a reasonable amount of privacy. If baby is in a crib on the other side of the room, fine. Baby being in bed (or attached to mama nursing) thats not OK with me.


----------



## slylives

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Orgasmic birth is fine, but I happen to think that having sex while nursing is highly inappropriate, and would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain to CPS.
> 
> Yes, sex is a normal part of life. It's also a very intimate part of life that does not need to be public, or involve our children. And yes, I do believe that having sex while nursing (with a baby literally attached to your boob) is involving an infant in your sex life in an inappropriate way. I find it very disturbing that people actually DO this, and then admit to it.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> I'm not religious. And my parents were affectionate towards each other around me and my brothers growing up - I don't think all marital affection should be hidden. I do think though, that sex is an intimate act between 2 consenting adults, with a reasonable amount of privacy. If baby is in a crib on the other side of the room, fine. Baby being in bed (or attached to mama nursing) thats not OK with me.


You are entitled to your opinion although I have to wonder why you are so interested in this conversation if you are so adamantly opposed to what most of us are describing and discussing here. You have stated how very opposed you are to it multiple times, I respect your opinion that you personally are not comfortable with that for YOURSELF. However, I am not interested in judging what the other mamas here are comfortable doing because I know that they aren't going to harm their child in some way just to enjoy any sexual intimacy with their spouses. What you think is harmful to babies/toddlers is just your opinion, it's not a fact. You don't know that those kids are being harmed!

Edited to add that I would actually really like to hear from a mama who is disturbed by having sex next to your LO what harm exactly you think is being caused. What is actually happening to the LO that is negative? The noise? The motion? That they might somehow realize you are having sex even though we can all agree a toddler has no idea what sex is? Obviously this really has nothing to do with a child, but babies and toddlers yes.


----------



## Storm Bride

I absolutely respect everyone's right to keep their sex life to circumstances that make them comfortable, with respect to a child being in the room/not in the room, in the bed/not in the bed, nursing/not nursing. There's a big difference between "I'm not comfortable having sex with a baby in the bed" and unspecified assertions that people who break our own boundaries, whichever they may be, are somehow behaving in a damaging fashion.

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby in the room is damaging to the baby?

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby in the bed is damaging to the baby?

Can anyone show me any evidence that having sex with a baby at the breast is damaging to the baby?

My own sexual comfort zones are my busines. I talk about them to some degree, but not in all detail. But, I don't expect anybody else to adhere to my comfort level in their sex lives. I can't imagine why anybody would.


----------



## Sfcmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slylives*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> I could not agree more. Quite nauseating.


Bummer... It feels like this conversation is quickly slipping into judgement and disrespect. It makes ne sad that we can't talk about this without one's practices being called sickening. (remember those "I" statements, or IME?! Aka speaking for one's own self?) or maybe the mods have something to help bring it back on track...?

If we recall, the OP was asking for ideas about how moms balance sexuality, cosleeping and motherhood, not to have those ideas be judged or accused to be child abuse.

I appreciate those who have respectfully and honestly shared their experiences. You've definitely helped me feel more normal and comfortable. Sadly, I'm unsubscribing now because I don't see how much more productive it will be hearing how gross we are for choosing to do things differently from you.

Best of luck, OP and rock on all you fierce loving, multi-tasking mamas!


----------



## no5no5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> That they might somehow realize you are having sex even though we can all agree a toddler has no idea what sex is?


A toddler who has never seen people having sex has no idea what sex is. A toddler who has witnessed people having sex may wonder about it, may act it out, may describe it to other people (triggering sexual abuse speculation), and may have lifelong memories of it. I would be very concerned about this happening.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> A toddler who has never seen people having sex has no idea what sex is. A toddler who has witnessed people having sex may wonder about it, may act it out, may describe it to other people (triggering sexual abuse speculation), and may have lifelong memories of it. I would be very concerned about this happening.


I can understand being concerned about people speculating that said toddler has been sexually abused. What's the issue with the rest of it? I'm quite sure that, throughout human history, thousands, if not millions, of toddlers have witnessed adults having sex. (That said, I know of at least three young children - one toddler and two preschoolers - who walked in on mom and dad and got an eyeful. As far as I'm able to tell, many years later, none of those children remember it at all. It was a big deal to their parents, but it wasn't a big deal to them at all.)


----------



## no5no5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I can understand being concerned about people speculating that said toddler has been sexually abused. What's the issue with the rest of it? I'm quite sure that, throughout human history, thousands, if not millions, of toddlers have witnessed adults having sex. (That said, I know of at least three young children - one toddler and two preschoolers - who walked in on mom and dad and got an eyeful. As far as I'm able to tell, many years later, none of those children remember it at all. It was a big deal to their parents, but it wasn't a big deal to them at all.


Okay, well, a toddler may wonder but not be able to articulate his or her curiosity and may develop a profound misunderstanding, which could last for years if not a lifetime. A preschooler probably would be able to ask questions and understand the answers, which would make that somewhat less of an issue IMO. For a toddler, acting it out could include some pretty inappropriate behaviors, including behaviors that could hurt or confuse other children. And yes, probably most children of that age would not remember it, but some would. My DH has a lot of memories from very early childhood, and while I know from experience that having a memory of one's parents having sex is not always horribly traumatic (when I was a gradeschooler my parents DTD in a hotel room while they thought I was sleeping), that particular memory is one I'd like to avoid imparting. The biggest deal, of course, is the suspicion of sexual abuse which could result and which, IMO, is enough reason to avoid having sex in front of a toddler.

I also have to say that I think there is a difference between a child walking in on his or her parents, in which case the parents probably address concerns and prevent it from happening again, and a child being in the bed when it happens, in which case the parents may not even realize that their child has witnessed it, and will presumably neither address concerns nor change their behavior.

Certainly in many cultures couples sleep in the same room or bed as other family members, and presumably in some of these cultures sex commonly takes place in those communal sleeping areas. I'm sure that people in those cultures are fine with that and it doesn't create major issues. But I don't live in one of those cultures, and my child is not being raised in one of those cultures. In my culture, like it or not, sex is a major issue, and precocious knowledge of sex and can create all sorts of problems. I don't think it makes sense to take that risk, particularly when we've got lots of other options.


----------



## Ldavis24

SFCmama, I really am sorry you felt so judged here. I was getting that vibe too.

I cannot believe some of the mamas here are willing to overtly suggest that any one of us here would be willing to harm our child.

God forbid our kids see something and then act it out or we have to actually explain to them what is going on.

Maybe we shouldn't be asking the people who are horrified and nauseated by what we are comfortable or not comfortable with to explain themselves further because frankly all I am seeing is more overt judgements and sideways accusations of permanently damaging your kid. I appreciate the responses of those who aren't thrilled with what has been described here but at this point people are starting to have their feelings seriously hurt at the suggestions being made.

I guess this thread has completely lost sight of what the OP was looking for, I hope she has found some good info and would be shamed into feeling like she is permamently harming her kid if she decides to have sex with her spouse near a sleeping child. It's a tough conversation when people are bringing a lot of their own baggage. I still stand by the fact that I know looking at my kiddo that she hasn't been harmed by me having sex in front of her while she is asleep and no one can tell me just because they find it disgusting or wrong that she has in fact been harmed, I am sitting in front of the proof that she hasn't been. Then again I am not afraid of the abstract fear of her "acting out" something she sees and getting me as a parent in trouble. Kids are sexual enough on their own without seeing anything. I have seen plenty of threads on here about LOs touch their genitals or doing bizarre things and no one is running around saying CPS is going to be called or the parents must have damaged the poor thing. Seriously my DD is going to explore her sexuality without my help and if she happens to wake up and see DH and I being intimate if she does remember it, it could be a great way to start a conversation about sex in general, something I think every parent needs to start with their children at a relatively young age. Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.

I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.


----------



## sosurreal09

For the record I don't think it's wrong to have sex near a sleeping LO. I personally wouldn't but I don't think it's wrong.

To me orgasmic birth or nursing a baby while having sex is like involving the child in the act and I do not support that in any way.

I do not see that as the same thing whatsoever.

I am checking out of here too.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> *Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.*
> 
> I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.


And I guess you're so offended by what I'm saying that its OK for you to start making offensive statements about me and the other parents who disagree with what you are doing? B/c I'm pretty sure thats the ONLY reason you could have actually posted that sentence. I DO think its important for people to TALK to their kids about sex. I just don't think it needs to be done in front of them. Yes, kids walk in occasionally - that can be dealt with by talking, and SHOULD be.

I guess my concern with it is, when do you stop? Where is the line actually drawn? I can see it becoming a very slippery slope. Well, she's 3 weeks old - its no different than it was when I was pregnant. Well, now she's 3 months old - whats the difference now then when she was 3weeks? Well, now she's 11months old, no difference really now than 3 months. 14months, no different than 11 months and she's sleeping so whats the harm? Well, now she's 2yo, and asleep, so theres no difference. And on and on and on. Where does the line get drawn? Anywhere in particular? Whats the difference between having sex and nursing a 3week old at the same time, and nursing a 2yo and having sex at the same time? IS there an age that the line gets drawn? IS there an age that a child is too old to be in the same room while you have sex?


----------



## Adaline'sMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> And I guess you're so offended by what I'm saying that its OK for you to start making offensive statements about me and the other parents who disagree with what you are doing? B/c I'm pretty sure thats the ONLY reason you could have actually posted that sentence. I DO think its important for people to TALK to their kids about sex. I just don't think it needs to be done in front of them. Yes, kids walk in occasionally - that can be dealt with by talking, and SHOULD be.
> 
> I guess my concern with it is, when do you stop? Where is the line actually drawn? I can see it becoming a very slippery slope. Well, she's 3 weeks old - its no different than it was when I was pregnant. Well, now she's 3 months old - whats the difference now then when she was 3weeks? Well, now she's 11months old, no difference really now than 3 months. 14months, no different than 11 months and she's sleeping so whats the harm? Well, now she's 2yo, and asleep, so theres no difference. And on and on and on. Where does the line get drawn? Anywhere in particular? Whats the difference between having sex and nursing a 3week old at the same time, and nursing a 2yo and having sex at the same time? IS there an age that the line gets drawn? *IS there an age that a child is too old to be in the same room while you have sex?*


*We've stopped having sex in the bed with DD (11 months) because I fear that she will wake up and it will ruin the mood. A babe sitting up and looking at you and saying "up,up,up" is just not hot. Its pretty much to guarentee that we wont be disturbed, not because I think its wrong.*

*Personally, Im not 100% positive what I will be comfortable with as she grows, but as long as the she is asleep I probably wouldnt pause at DTD on the floor in our room while shes sleeping in the bed. I think somewhere between 2-3 Ill start to rethink my position on that. I know this is a whole 'nother topic but I personally feel uncomfortable sleeping naked with babes once I stop nursing them. It strikes me that I may have the same feeling about having sex with them in the room too.*

*As for nursing while making love, there are plenty of times where she has woken up (not while we were on the bed. actually, all three times we were in the lv room) and I went and nursed her and then came back. I dont feel comfortable even having DH touch me while Im nursing her back to sleep. He can touch himself all he wants, but since shes awake, I make sure its in seperate rooms.*


----------



## seawitch

I think there's more than one slippery slope.

One is... if orgasmic birth is wrong because it "involves" the baby - then is sex in the third tri wrong? Baby always gets mom's orgasm hormones, I thought. So is that wrong as well? How about second tri? Especially since baby can hear in the womb as well...

Second slippery slope - how much marital affection is OK? Are the parents allowed to be naked around one another if there is an infant present? Is a father getting into a birthing tub with the mom too open? Is sleeping naked OK? Is a hug while sleeping naked OK? Is a caress on the mom's arm OK? Is a caress on the breast? Is a kiss? How about a more passionate kiss? Where should the line be drawn as to what activity is or is not OK with a sleeping infant in the same room/bed/whatever?


----------



## no5no5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> SFCmama, I really am sorry you felt so judged here. I was getting that vibe too.
> 
> I cannot believe some of the mamas here are willing to overtly suggest that any one of us here would be willing to harm our child.
> 
> God forbid our kids see something and then act it out or we have to actually explain to them what is going on.
> 
> Maybe we shouldn't be asking the people who are horrified and nauseated by what we are comfortable or not comfortable with to explain themselves further because frankly all I am seeing is more overt judgements and sideways accusations of permanently damaging your kid. I appreciate the responses of those who aren't thrilled with what has been described here but at this point people are starting to have their feelings seriously hurt at the suggestions being made.
> 
> I guess this thread has completely lost sight of what the OP was looking for, I hope she has found some good info and would be shamed into feeling like she is permamently harming her kid if she decides to have sex with her spouse near a sleeping child. It's a tough conversation when people are bringing a lot of their own baggage. I still stand by the fact that I know looking at my kiddo that she hasn't been harmed by me having sex in front of her while she is asleep and no one can tell me just because they find it disgusting or wrong that she has in fact been harmed, I am sitting in front of the proof that she hasn't been. Then again I am not afraid of the abstract fear of her "acting out" something she sees and getting me as a parent in trouble. Kids are sexual enough on their own without seeing anything. I have seen plenty of threads on here about LOs touch their genitals or doing bizarre things and no one is running around saying CPS is going to be called or the parents must have damaged the poor thing. Seriously my DD is going to explore her sexuality without my help and if she happens to wake up and see DH and I being intimate if she does remember it, it could be a great way to start a conversation about sex in general, something I think every parent needs to start with their children at a relatively young age. Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.
> 
> I have just about had it with this whole thread, the attitudes here of some of the poster's just don't jive with me and while I respect people's opinions, more than once this conversation has become insulting to us Mamas who aren't afraid of being sexual around a LO who is sleeping.


I can only assume that you are referring to my comments in this post. For the record, I am neither horrified nor nauseated by anything I've read about in this thread. Nor am I judging anyone for doing what they think is best for their child.

It seems that you are judging me for simply stating my concerns, which hardly seems reasonable. I have not said anything that should be offensive to anyone in this thread, and I have not even stated my opinion about sex in the same room as an infant.

As for the prospect that seeing parents having sex might lead to an allegation of sexual abuse, perhaps my concern in that area is greater because I worked in the court system for a while. Dealing with child sexual abuse cases will change the way you think about a child's knowledge of sexuality. Sexual exploration is well and good, but the assumption in the system is that a very young child who can describe an erect penis or ejaculation or who can make sexual noises or describe adult sexual practices with any degree of accuracy has been abused. I have seen convictions be upheld on very little else. But even if an allegation is simply investigated and then dropped as unsubstantiated, the process of that investigation can ruin your year, if not your life. I have seen that happen as well.

And yes, of course, a child's natural sexual curiosity is fine. But most very young children (even children who have been taught about sex, as my DD certainly has been) do not understand the specifics well enough to act out adult sexual behaviors. A child who has seen and misunderstood adult sexuality may try to coerce or force another child to participate in that behavior. (Even the gentlest child may sometimes try to force or coerce others to play their preferred game.) And a child who has had sexual activity forced on him or her even by another child of his or her same age may have serious psychological problems as a result. I'm not saying that this is something that all children will do if they witness their parents having sex. I will say that, based on my experience, I believe that it does sometimes happen.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> As for the prospect that seeing parents having sex might lead to an allegation of sexual abuse, perhaps my concern in that area is greater because I worked in the court system for a while. Dealing with child sexual abuse cases will change the way you think about a child's knowledge of sexuality. Sexual exploration is well and good, but the assumption in the system is that a *very young child who can describe an erect penis* or ejaculation or who can make sexual noises or describe adult sexual practices with any degree of accuracy has been abused. I have seen convictions be upheld on very little else. But even if an allegation is simply investigated and then dropped as unsubstantiated, the process of that investigation can ruin your year, if not your life. I have seen that happen as well.


Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.)

I don't have sex in bed next to a toddler, mostly because I don't want a toddler looking at me (almost freaked out once when a dog walked in on me, too - I'm not even a little bit exhibitionistic and am waaaayyyyy over-inhibited). But, I can assure you that if I did, the child wouldn't see anything but motion under a blanket. In any case, I'm not sure what age group people are talking about when they say "toddler", but a lot of toddlers are non-verbal and wouldn't be able to describe any of these things at all.

I do wonder where some of these lines are drawn. Two of my four kids have repeatedly attempted to "french kiss" as infants/toddlers. It's not from having seen that, because one of them hadn't. It was a natural extension of their tendency to "mouth" everything. DS2 once asked me to kiss his penis - because he didn't see his penis as being any different than his cheek, elbow, fingertip or any other body part. (He was only about 2.5 or maybe 3, and we hadn't made much progress on the "private parts" concept yet.) It's absolutely freaky that someone could think this was a sign of anything perverted or abusive.


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## abm79

We use the bed and although it was a little weird - if she's asleep, we just thought who cares? Especially as she still doesn't sleep on her own in the bed - I have to be nearby (I swear she has a sixth sense) so the bed is the only place that works for us!


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## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.)
> 
> I don't have sex in bed next to a toddler, mostly because I don't want a toddler looking at me (almost freaked out once when a dog walked in on me, too - I'm not even a little bit exhibitionistic and am waaaayyyyy over-inhibited). But, I can assure you that if I did, the child wouldn't see anything but motion under a blanket. In any case, I'm not sure what age group people are talking about when they say "toddler", but *a lot of toddlers are non-verbal and wouldn't be able to describe any of these things at al*l.
> 
> I do wonder where some of these lines are drawn. Two of my four kids have repeatedly attempted to "french kiss" as infants/toddlers. It's not from having seen that, because one of them hadn't. It was a natural extension of their tendency to "mouth" everything. DS2 once asked me to kiss his penis - because he didn't see his penis as being any different than his cheek, elbow, fingertip or any other body part. (He was only about 2.5 or maybe 3, and we hadn't made much progress on the "private parts" concept yet.) It's absolutely freaky that someone could think this was a sign of anything perverted or abusive.


My 2yo would be able to describe an erect penis in great detail if he ever saw one - yes, with words. He's highly verbal, and asked me when he was 18mo why I didn't have a penis. He might have been younger, but I didn't write down when it happened.

I would imagine that as far as a child being able to describe an erect penis, or the act of sex, it would be far more upsetting to hear a child describing their parents having sex while in bed with them, than say, describing what would happen when a child walked in on his parents. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference, I think the difference would be pretty significant.


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## no5no5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Then, we shouldn't bedshare or have our children in our rooms at all, if that's the concern. What if dad gets up with "morning wood" and the toddler sees it? That chlid could describe an erect penis with far more accuracy than a child who happened to wake up while mom and dad were having sex (possibly under the covers) next to him/her. And, depending at what point a child walked in, a child walking in would be more likely to be able to describe what was going on. While the idea of having a sexual abuse investigation launched against my family terrifies me, I can't make all my parenting decisions based on that. The only possible way to remove all possibility of a child being able to describe an erect penis is to never have sex in your own home, at all, once you have a child. (Locking doors works, but only if you never, ever forget - not even once.


We coslept until DD turned 5, and DH simply wore boxers or pajamas to bed. If he had an erection, he wouldn't change his clothes in front of DD; he'd go to the bathroom to do so. So I certainly don't see cosleeping as incompatible with a basic level of modesty.

I agree with you that it is impossible to absolutely prevent a child from ever being exposed to adult sexuality, unless that sexuality is not present in the home. But to me it still makes sense to minimize the risk. That's true for almost every risk in our lives. Maybe you and your partner have such quiet, gentle, under-the-covers sex lives that the risk of a child seeing or hearing or feeling anything inappropriate, even if he or she should awaken, is minimal. I accept that that could be possible for some people.


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## littlest birds

I think it is not hard to draw the line, but of course it is different for different people. Personally, we draw the line using our sense of how aware the child may be. An infant's awareness is different than a toddler's and we can draw our lines just fine. There are no moral problems here for us, but we don't do anything we consider questionable and I do not believe our kids have ever seen anything that made us feel they had seen too much or anything that upset them. The other line to draw is whether we can relax and enjoy ourselves.

We have always had our ways of being sneaky when we feel the need, by being quiet and under covers or slipping away to an odd part of the house while they are doing their own thing during daytime hours. We do put ourselves in a position of taking a risk of being walked in on, but we can hear footsteps well so we can cover up and by the time the door opens, we're just cuddling and not at all "graphic." That's okay. I am not shamed or anything if that cuddling suggests something more yet we are not on display either. My kids are quite a bit older now, so they can get the idea of a closed door and they are capable of being alone doing other things in the house. We no longer cosleep, but we have coslept with up to three kids. (We had a whole room floor covered with futons at that time.)

I don't see any problem with doing it while nursing an infant who is truly not aware. I would consider an infant in the la-la land of sleep-nursing not disturbed by a gentle quickie from behind, even though it's not very "fun". But it really is not "fun" so why go for it, generally? I can darn well tell the difference between a sleeping unaware infant (who simply doesn't judge the activities of others) and a near-toddler who is quite curious about what the adults are up to. Later, a sleeping child with enough room to be undisturbed, no problem. You can probably tell if they are likely to be disturbed just based on your awareness of their environment and sleep patterns. A bouncy queen size bed of course is entirely different from multiple mats on a non-bouncy floor. Full darkness by itself can provide a buffer of privacy as well. So some things depend on the setup as well. Blankets and carefulness with noise are worth it if it is the only way to be intimate.

If you are like most cosleeping families in our culture, you are choosing to not set up an individual bedroom for your child even though you have one available. Well, that room should have an extra bed in it anyway IMO whether you call it a guest bed or whatever. You don't have to send your child to a separate room at night to be able to have one available for you. We generally always had more beds in the house that might be used for nursing and napping anyway because we had multiple young children and sometimes just needed extra spaces for different people's needs. We actually needed an extra place for an adult just to get a nap alone sometimes, as my dh sometimes had to work odd very late and very early hours and had to catch up on sleep at a different time from the children's sleep. We also used the couch more for DTD during that time of our lives after kids were all asleep and of course we did have a lot less sex regardless. That was mainly because we were unpredictably on call and tired though. Interruption for basic baby needs was always possible when they were little, no matter where we went. Location was the easy part IME.

I think cultural norms are affected also by the relative luxury of privacy we have. Americans often have more rooms available than other families in other countries. When a family shares a single room or tiny house, as has been and is the case in many times and places, they devise different methods and standards for how discreet they are. If you share a room by necessity, a child may wake up in the night and notice adults being "wrestly" and noisy in their shared blankets. How shocking is that? I don't find it shocking. However, I do have the luxury of more privacy than that and I do use it. It's just more relaxing and comfortable.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> My 2yo would be able to describe an erect penis in great detail if he ever saw one - yes, with words. He's highly verbal, and asked me when he was 18mo why I didn't have a penis. He might have been younger, but I didn't write down when it happened.
> 
> I would imagine that as far as a child being able to describe an erect penis, or the act of sex, it would be far more upsetting to hear a child describing their parents having sex while in bed with them, than say, describing what would happen when a child walked in on his parents. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference, I think the difference would be pretty significant.


I never said all toddlers were non-verbal. What I was getting at was that, if a toddler does happen to be non-verbal, concerns that they might go around talking about what a penis looks like, and trigger an abuse investigation, aren't really warranted. (My oldest two would both have been able to do the same thing by 18 months, or earlier. Neither of my younger two could. "Toddler" covers a lot of territory, both in terms of age, and in terms of development.)

Upsetting to whom? I was addressing the concern that a child might be able to describe an erect penis or a sex act. If the concern is that a child simply being able to describe the sex act is enough to trigger an investigation (or conviction!) of sexual abuse, then whether they can do so, because they were present the whole time, or because they walked in partway through, is irrelevant.

Yes - I agree that the dfiference would be significant. The child who walked in would probably be able to describe more detail, and would be more likely to have a ripe vocabulary to go along with it. (I can't see most couples who are having sex with a toddler in the bed being super verbally raunchy, yk?) The toddler in the bed may not be able to describe anything, if they slep through it. There's also no guarantee that the child who walked in was immediately noticed or that they fled. Some may be fascinated enough to stick around. Bottom line is that I, personally wouldn't have sex with a toddler in the bed (but am okay if they're sleeping in the same room), but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. I think this is just one more example of how screwed up we (I'm talking about "mainstream" - stupid word, but I don't have a better one - middle class, North America) are about sexuality. The fact that a couple having sex in the same bed as a sleeping baby could potentially trigger an abuse investigation turns my stomach.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> We coslept until DD turned 5, and DH simply wore boxers or pajamas to bed. If he had an erection, he wouldn't change his clothes in front of DD; he'd go to the bathroom to do so. So I certainly don't see cosleeping as incompatible with a basic level of modesty.
> 
> Modesty, with respect to nudity and sexuality, is a meaningless concept to me. I realize it's a value for other people, so those people will obviously try to ensure that they live by its precepts. I cannot even imagine wearing boxers or PJs just to hide a penis from a child.
> 
> I agree with you that it is impossible to absolutely prevent a child from ever being exposed to adult sexuality, unless that sexuality is not present in the home. But to me it still makes sense to minimize the risk.
> 
> I don't see being exposed to adult sexuality - especially something as innocuous as an erection! - as a "risk", except for the paranoia from CPS. In fact, I think having to be that cautious about a child maybe seeing that isn't even necessarily sexual (eg. "morning wood", which many men get when they need to pee!) is damaging in its own right.
> 
> That's true for almost every risk in our lives. Maybe you and your partner have such quiet, gentle, under-the-covers sex lives that the risk of a child seeing or hearing or feeling anything inappropriate, even if he or she should awaken, is minimal. I accept that that could be possible for some people.
> 
> If couldn't have that kind of sex, I wouldn't be having sex in the same room as a toddler. If nothing else, I don't like to wake up a sleeping baby. Since there's usually nowhere else for me to go for sex, I'd learn pretty quickly to be quiet, even if it were a huge challenge for me, because not having sex until my youngest is out of my room isn't an acceptable alternative to me.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littlest birds*
> 
> I think it is not hard to draw the line, but of course it is different for different people. Personally, we draw the line using our sense of how aware the child may be. An infant's awareness is different than a toddler's and we can draw our lines just fine. There are no moral problems here for us, but we don't do anything we consider questionable and I do not believe our kids have ever seen anything that made us feel they had seen too much or anything that upset them. The other line to draw is whether we can relax and enjoy ourselves.
> 
> We have always had our ways of being sneaky when we feel the need, by being quiet and under covers or slipping away to an odd part of the house while they are doing their own thing during daytime hours. We do put ourselves in a position of taking a risk of being walked in on, but we can hear footsteps well so we can cover up and by the time the door opens, we're just cuddling and not at all "graphic." That's okay. I am not shamed or anything if that cuddling suggests something more yet we are not on display either. My kids are quite a bit older now, so they can get the idea of a closed door and they are capable of being alone doing other things in the house. We no longer cosleep, but we have coslept with up to three kids. (We had a whole room floor covered with futons at that time.)
> 
> I don't see any problem with doing it while nursing an infant who is truly not aware. I would consider an infant in the la-la land of sleep-nursing not disturbed by a gentle quickie from behind, even though it's not very "fun". But it really is not "fun" so why go for it, generally? I can darn well tell the difference between a sleeping unaware infant (who simply doesn't judge the activities of others) and a near-toddler who is quite curious about what the adults are up to. Later, a sleeping child with enough room to be undisturbed, no problem. You can probably tell if they are likely to be disturbed just based on your awareness of their environment and sleep patterns. A bouncy queen size bed of course is entirely different from multiple mats on a non-bouncy floor. Full darkness by itself can provide a buffer of privacy as well. So some things depend on the setup as well. Blankets and carefulness with noise are worth it if it is the only way to be intimate.
> 
> If you are like most cosleeping families in our culture, you are choosing to not set up an individual bedroom for your child even though you have one available. Well, that room should have an extra bed in it anyway IMO whether you call it a guest bed or whatever. You don't have to send your child to a separate room at night to be able to have one available for you. We generally always had more beds in the house that might be used for nursing and napping anyway because we had multiple young children and sometimes just needed extra spaces for different people's needs. We actually needed an extra place for an adult just to get a nap alone sometimes, as my dh sometimes had to work odd very late and very early hours and had to catch up on sleep at a different time from the children's sleep. We also used the couch more for DTD during that time of our lives after kids were all asleep and of course we did have a lot less sex regardless. That was mainly because we were unpredictably on call and tired though. Interruption for basic baby needs was always possible when they were little, no matter where we went. Location was the easy part IME.
> 
> I think cultural norms are affected also by the relative luxury of privacy we have. Americans often have more rooms available than other families in other countries. When a family shares a single room or tiny house, as has been and is the case in many times and places, they devise different methods and standards for how discreet they are. If you share a room by necessity, a child may wake up in the night and notice adults being "wrestly" and noisy in their shared blankets. How shocking is that? I don't find it shocking. However, I do have the luxury of more privacy than that and I do use it. It's just more relaxing and comfortable.












We don't have any extra rooms, so some of this doesn't apply to us, but I love this post. Mind you, I think the issue of privacy being a luxury is multi-faceted. It's a luxury, but it's also a cultural expectation, to some extent. In many times and places, that level of luxury wasn't an expectation, so I'm sure people handled it differently. (I'm extremely edgy about being heard or seen or anything...but I doubt I would be if I'd grown up in a place where sex and sexuality was more public, yk?)


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## Pirogi

My experience with my children went like this:

DD is born ... in our student years ... sex in the full-size family bed with DD beside us bc she wouldn't fall asleep in the sidecarred co-sleeper or be moved without waking after she fell asleep. We lived in a one-bed room apartment where the only alternative was a very uncomfortable (and quite nasty Craigslist) couch or the floor. At some point as she became more aware, we moved to a blanket on the bedroom floor for sex.

We continued until she was about 11 months, when we got jobs and moved into a 3-BR house. Purchased a new king-size (very non-bouncy) bed, and started going to the our old full-size in another room for sex.

Moved when DD was 2.5 to another 3-BR house. Continued using the spare bed until our au pair arrived when DD was over three and I was 6 months pregnant with DS. Sex bed became au pair's room. We bought DD a twin to side-car to our bed, and went back to sex in the king. This is where we are now, and DS (5 weeks) is in the bed with us.

This works for us right now bc DS is still very young/unaware, and DD a very heavy sleeper. I am positive that she has never woken up while we are having sex. If she was a lighter sleeper or if she had ever woken up, we would have moved the sex to another room and gone back to the floor if necessary (ouch, hardwood), before now. I will continue to assess her understanding of sexuality and eventually we will move the sex out of the room again if she doesn't move into her own bed before then.

I agree with the "sleep style" post earlier. Age, sleep style, sex style ... all these are factors in each family's individual circumstance as to when sex in the family bed might be better off somewhere else.


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## no5no5

So, *Stormbride*, if I am reading you correctly, your position is that it is not harmful for a child to witness his or her parents having sex under the covers, even if the child happens to wake and notice that his or her parents are hiding something. According to you, it is, however, harmful for a child to witness his or her father covering his erect penis even if the child never notices that his or her father is hiding something. I guess I'm just a bit confused. If it's perfectly fine to hide sex from a child, why exactly is it harmful to hide an erection from a child?

Also, when I say "modesty" what I mean is covering one's body. I didn't mean to imply any moral imperative to do so. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no5no5*
> 
> So, *Stormbride*, if I am reading you correctly, your position is that it is not harmful for a child to witness his or her parents having sex under the covers, even if the child happens to wake and notice that his or her parents are hiding something. According to you, *it is, however, harmful for a child to witness his or her father covering his erect penis* even if the child never notices that his or her father is hiding something. I guess I'm just a bit confused. If it's perfectly fine to hide sex from a child, why exactly is it harmful to hide an erection from a child?
> 
> re: the bolded. That's not quite what I mean. I think the underlying assumption that an erect penis is something that needs to be hidden/covered is somewhat damaging. I don't think the act of covering it is damaging, in and of itself. I'm actually inclined to think that our cultural paranoia about children witnessing sex is also harmful, however (as someone addressed upthread), it's not something that's easily wiped out, as those children who do witness sex and then talk about it can trigger all kinds of ugliness. I don't think a toddler waking up next to parenst having sex under the covers would know the parents were hiding anything (if they were - some people do just like to have sex under the covers), so I'm not sure what you're getting at with respect to that. I don't think seeing/sensing the sex act is going to affect a child at all, unless the adults around them treat it as an "OMG - we've scarred him/her for life!!!" scenario, or he/she thinks someone is being hurt (I know one child who thought that when he walked in....long, complicated explanation followed).
> 
> I don't think there's anything inherently damaging about hiding sex and/or nudity and/or an erect penis from a child. I do think there's something inherentlyl damaging in the assumption that these are things that need to be hidden from a child, out of a belief that they will somehow scar the child.
> 
> Also, when I say "modesty" what I mean is covering one's body. I didn't mean to imply any moral imperative to do so. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
> 
> I'm still a bit unclear as to what you were getting at there, but that's okay. My views on the entire concept of "modesty" with respect to nudity are...unusual.


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## applecider

Just throwing my two sense out there, even though it does not answer the OP! I don't see anything wrong with having sex in the bed where your baby is sleeping. They are asleep. What does it matter? The way I've always thought about it is that sex is what made them in the first place, so it's not a big stretch for me to be ok with it. Personally, I couldn't nurse and dtd at the same time, but that's just me.


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## Spencesmom

We used an Arms Reach cosleeper for a few months when my little guy started tossing around, but it took up too much room and I had to climb around it to get out of bed so we tossed it. If sex in bed while babe is sleeping doesn't cut it for your hubby then try the floor, the living room, the stairs, the kitchen, shower, I could go on...








My son will be three in a few weeks and is still snuggling up to us every night!


----------



## Honey693

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> I guess this thread has completely lost sight of what the OP was looking for, I hope she has found some good info and would be shamed into feeling like she is permamently harming her kid if she decides to have sex with her spouse near a sleeping child. It's a tough conversation when people are bringing a lot of their own baggage. I still stand by the fact that I know looking at my kiddo that she hasn't been harmed by me having sex in front of her while she is asleep and no one can tell me just because they find it disgusting or wrong that she has in fact been harmed, I am sitting in front of the proof that she hasn't been. Then again I am not afraid of the abstract fear of her "acting out" something she sees and getting me as a parent in trouble. Kids are sexual enough on their own without seeing anything. I have seen plenty of threads on here about LOs touch their genitals or doing bizarre things and no one is running around saying CPS is going to be called or the parents must have damaged the poor thing. Seriously my DD is going to explore her sexuality without my help and if she happens to wake up and see DH and I being intimate if she does remember it, it could be a great way to start a conversation about sex in general, something I think every parent needs to start with their children at a relatively young age. *Then again maybe the same people who are so freaked out by the idea of DTD in front of their kiddos won't ever talk to their kid about sex.*


Um, no. I'm ok with talking to my kids about sex, just not demonstrating it. There's a point where you have to do it in a different room from a sleeping child.


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## Atty

Couldn't have said it better myself Matthia.


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## Adaline'sMama

This thread is old, and after rereading it I realized that my opinion hasnt changed at all. I have two kids now, and it's even harder for us to find a place to have sex. Trying to pin down a time to go somewhere else is impossible, you can pay for a sitter or send the kids to grandma's or whatever and it doesnt mean that you will want to have sex that night. I want to have sex 2-3 times a week. In my bed, for the most part, and we live in a tiny apartment. I quit having sex with DD in our room when she was about a year old, and it's likely that we will do the same thing with DS. Once they are old enough to wake up and want to know what you are doing, I think it's time to figure out other arrangements. But when they are itty bitty, I dont think that sex registers any differently than you washing dishes or working out. That being said, we had to have really quite slow sex when DD was in our bed, so this time we bought ourselves a co sleeper, pretty much just so we could have a place to set DS down when we wanted to do it.


----------

