# Flying with toddlers



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

So, I had a conversation with a friend today. She is flying with her 2 year old DS in a few weeks and is planning to buy him a seat, but is not planning to bring his car seat. I asked her how he sat in the seat, and she answered, "Like everyone else, with the lap belt over him". I wasn't aware that this was even allowed on planes.

I tried to tell her that she should really have a car seat, and that I didn't know she could even use just the lap belt, and she seemed to think that I was a little nuts for even suggesting that a car seat was needed. She has flown several times with her DS and said that whenever an extra seat was available when he was a lap baby, she just belted him into the seat like an adult.

So, I realize that car seats are a good idea on a plane, and would not travel without one for DS, but are kids really legally allowed to ride without one???


----------



## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Sadly, this is the case. And I think it's very dangerous. I used to always bring my carseat on board aircraft (Britax Roundabout). I think it's a great idea for sooo many reasons: Checking can damage the seat, the seat is familiar to the child, there is neck support if they want to sleep. But I have found a new product which I like too. It is better for shorter hops where sleep may not be an issue. It is called CARES and you can find it at www.kidsflysafe.com.

It is a strap device that has FAA approval and is strapped to the child's seat and attaches to the lapbelt. Check it out. It is great for older toddlers and actually any child that is under 40 lbs. Also airlines now regularly (and casually) ask how old a child is, because legally any child 2 or over needs their own seat. Everyone I have lent this product to has purchased one of their own.

-Heather


----------



## lunita1 (May 12, 2008)

My question is what she does at the other end of the trip? He needs a seat at his destination, and I wouldn't trust a rental seat OR that the airline would handle his seat well if she checked it. As a result, it just makes sense to fly with him IN the seat that he rides in to and from the airport.


----------



## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Totally legal.


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

He actually won't need a seat at their destination. She is flying into NYC and she is staying in a hotel on the subway line and she isn't planning on taking any cabs while she is there (except from the airport maybe?) She doesn't strap him in when they take cabs either, so there is no convincing her to take his seat. She also won't buy a CARES, although if I ever fly with DS and don't take his seat, you bet I would buy one.

Sad that it is legal though. I wish there were a way to say to her, "You know, you have to have a car seat for him on the plane."


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

At 2, she has to buy him his own seat, but IME most people don't bring along car seats. Especially if your destination is somewhere like NYC. It's not feasable to carry around a seat (CARES can't be used in vehicles, right?) and install it in cabs/subways there.


----------



## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Exactly - it says specifically and emphatically it is not to be used for automobiles. I know there are safety harnesses out there that have been tested and approved for car use only (hence portable and easy for cabs) but I think only really large 2 year-olds would make the weight cut.

Now for a little rant: I have a real problem with parents who play fast and loose with their child's safety. Yes, I know the cost issue is real, but if something happened to their child, what would the cost matter then? I have two acquaintances who I have cooled friendships with because of the way they address safety issues (and what they do is illegal - one lets her child sit in the front of her car, the other has let the child ride on the back of a bike without a helmet). I just have a hard time talking to them knowing how they act.

Okay, probably preaching to the choir here.... Stay safe all!!!


----------



## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

In your shoes, I'd back off.

Having him ride in just the belt is legal. The fact he is taking a commercial flight means that there is very little chance of anything going wrong. Air travel is safe.

I get more riled up with the CARES harness people who actually recommend on their website that parents check car seats and use their product on board. Hello?!? I'm trying to imagine how many car seats get lost and/or broken in the hold and how many parents get stuck in the airport without their seat, with their darned CARES harnesses which are useless on the ground... Car travel is much, much more dangerous than air travel. Air accidents are rare but lost and broken car seats are super-common!

What you could do is find out if there's a reasonable CARES harness rental available. If she's leaving soon, this is low-season and there should be one out there... (Google Criagslist or Ebay CARES harness to get a list).

I have to admit that I did the same with my youngest once. Why didn't I take the car seat? I was flying an Irish low-cost company which bans _all_ car seats in the cabin. We were going to England where friends had extra car seats of their dd's waiting for us. We then went on to use public transport in the other places we visited.

It was basically a case of go or not-go. I used to live in London and I was very eager to show off my kids and see people I hadn't in years. Yes, I'll admit that it would have been safer to have stayed home. There are no other airlines who fly this route.

What I would do in your place is try to talk her out of using any cabs. N.Y. law states that children under age 7 do not need to be restrained in a cab. They drive crazy! Talk her into using public transport...


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Legal, yes. Recommended, no.

I prefer to fly with car seats, as is recommended by the NTSB. My DD1 has flown without a carseat once, and that was after a snaffu with a FA who was wrong but had the authority to kick me off the plane. It was awful, as she was tired and wanted to sleep but couldn't get comfortable in the lap belt and we were both miserable, with DD2 sleeping like an angel in her car seat. I will freely admit that comfort & peace of mind play into my decision to haul around car seats as much as the safety aspect does







So much easier to fly with a restrained child, especially when they are at that stage where they want to be down and crawling/walking and don't understand why you're trying to hold her on your lap!


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Oh, I am definitely not going to make a big deal out of it with her. She is generally very safe with her DS. She does not drive, and she still kept him RF'ing until nearly 2 (he is a very big kiddo) even though she only had him in a car maybe once every week or two. She is extremely low income, so can't afford a new seat to help him to RF longer, but she makes sure that he is always buckled in properly (seat installed correctly every time, jackets off, straps not twisted, etc) in other people's cars.

She is a great mama, and still wears him on her back, even though it just about kills her back. They co-sleep, and do all sorts of other AP things. It is just the flying and riding in cabs that she does not use a seat for, which is about once or twice a year for her. I am willing to let that go for the sake of our friendship. She is one of my best friends, and knows how I feel about seats, so I am not going to fight her on it.


----------



## mommariffic (Mar 18, 2009)

I live right outside NYC and my DD [who's 2 1/2] and I have ridden in quite a few cabs without a car seat, and we don't use one while flying. I consider myself a super responsible parent, who wouldn ever put her child in harms way either...

Are cabs safe? Generally we are going a few blocks and the weather is too cold to walk since DD hates the cold. Do I put her in my lap with a seat belt across both of us? Absolutely, and I never feel I'm putting her at risk. Do I consider air flight very safe? Yes.

I guess a person could bring up safety issues in any situation: are subways safe and should you bring a car seat on one? They don't even have seat belts! Should kids have car seats on trains? Busses?

I would back off, but unless I think a child is in SERIOUS danger I don't tend to give out too much parenting advice that is going to sound judgmental.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Totally legal. If she is considering taking a cab to her hotel, though, I would encourage her to take a carseat for the COMFORT of her little one, not for the safety. My kids were much happier in airplanes in carseats because they could get a better view with the extra height. Otherwise it can be fairly clausterphobic.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommariffic* 
Do I put her in my lap with a seat belt across both of us? Absolutely, and I never feel I'm putting her at risk. Do I consider air flight very safe? Yes.

Honestly, that sounds MUCH more dangerous than putting a two year old in their own seatbelt to me. Think about the pressure you would be forcing onto her abdomen in an accident (your weight pushing her into the seatbelt).


----------



## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Exactly. That's why it's not allowed on airplanes. An adult weighs so much more than a child, they wouldn't stand a prayer in forward impact, being crushed against the belt. Better loose or in his own seat belt (not always possible).

Trains, subways and buses are less likely to be involved in an accident and their large sizes (and the fact that trains and subways don't have to "compete" for traffic) make them a safer bet. Also, the frequent stops mean they usually go slower too.

Which is another point, if you do find yourself in a cab with your kid not secured the way you know s/he should be, simply ask the driver to _slow down_. They do tend to speed and if you're not in a hurry (or decide that being late beats not getting there at all), keep an eye out for how fast they're going.

Hmmm... maybe that's a good idea even if your child IS securely attached!


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Yes, the child would be better off completely unrestrained, than on your lap with a seatbelt over you both.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
He actually won't need a seat at their destination. She is flying into NYC and she is staying in a hotel on the subway line and she isn't planning on taking any cabs while she is there (except from the airport maybe?)

If she is big on saving money, my guess would be that she's taking the air train (special airport subway) to the subway proper. In which case, having done that myself with kid, carseat, and luggage in tow... definitely do NOT take a car seat! You want to be as travel-light as possible with the subway. There are elevators, but only in some stations, they're often broken, and people are crazy!


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Oh yeah, if she is 100% sure she's never going to take a cab then, yes, by all means don't take a car seat.


----------



## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

Scenario 1-
8 hr flight to Europe with unhappy 2 yr old child sitting/sleeping in my lap, not in her car seat.
Scenario 2-Return flight home, checked seat at gate, happy child often belted in her seat drawing, eating, sleeping.

If she can get the cares harness I think the child would be safe, happier, and it would be easier on mom getting around the airport.


----------



## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wetcement101* 
Scenario 1-
8 hr flight to Europe with unhappy 2 yr old child sitting/sleeping in my lap, not in her car seat.
Scenario 2-Return flight home, checked seat at gate, happy child often belted in her seat drawing, eating, sleeping.

I had _exactly_ the opposite happen. Also, in my experience as a Flight Attendant, the children in car seats were _much_ more comfortable and slept better than those bouncing around in seat.

Hope you didn't check the car seat as luggage!


----------



## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

I would completely drop the carseat/airplane issue and not worry about it.

I would, however, focus on the fact that any time that child is in ANY car, he needs to be in a seat. That includes Taxis.

Flying in an airplane is much safer than driving in a car - and there is no evidence that a carseat would greatly improve the outcome either way. In a taxi, however, that's a different story.


----------



## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Ive done a ton of flying since having children and I have seen some terrifying parenting and some wonderful parenting. If she plans on putting him in his own seat and seat belting him in I would drop it. At least she is doing the somewhat safe thing by seat belting him in. Is it what I would do? No, I lug two convertible carseats through the airport along with two kids and carryons (alone) but its not nearly as bad as some of the things I have seen parents do.


----------

