# Parents of crappy sleepers tribe...



## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Please tell me I'm not alone!! Please? My son is almost 22 months and has been a horrible sleeper from the beginning. He's also really active. He refuses to sleep in the crib, but he is so restless at night, that nobody wants to sleep with him!!







But, if we didn't cosleep, nobody would get ANY sleep. It seems like it's a temperament thing that will get better as he gets older, but it sure is hard... doesn't help that I'm pregnant too...


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## AmyLaz (Aug 30, 2006)

Liz, when I saw your thread, I knew this tribe was for me








I don't have any great advice, because either one or both of my kids seems to always be going through some sort of sleep-related "phase." We have had some spurts where they were both sleeping well, but right now they both wake up during the night (at different times, of course), and come to our room. DD is pretty still when she's asleep, but DS can be quite restless like your little guy - and always has been. We've gone back to playing music in their rooms while we put them to bed, which does seem to help DS settle down. I use a deep relaxation nature sounds cd for him, and a classical guitar lullaby cd for DD. While that does help them settle into their beds for the evening so DH and I can have some together time, they still wake up during the night and come to our room right now. So all I can say is that I'm with ya' in your woes, mama


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Sign me up!

My daughter was a crappy sleeper until she turned 3 or so . . . then she finally started sleeping through the night more often than not. It was really just something that took time (and patience) and that she grew into on her own. She went through an exceptionally bad phase between 17-20 months where she was waking every hour or so during the night . . . moving to a "big girl" bed seemed to help at that point, but she still woke multiple times a night after that.

My son is only 7 months old, so I don't expect much from him (though it seems like everyone I know IRL has babies that sleep through from about 4 or 5 months on). He wakes after the first 3 hour block of sleep, then typically after two hours and then every hour until we get up. I consider this decent sleeping, but when I tell people, they're horrified. So who knows? I'm sure that, like his sister, it will come in time.


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## Dimples_2005 (Jun 14, 2006)

Count me in . . . I have not slept more than 2 hours at a time for nearly a year. My boy slept through the night starting at 5 weeks, then stopped at 4 months. The universe is balanced for my ignorant boasting about what a great sleeper I had.







:

I actually found myself thinking, maybe someday he can find a nice girl when he grows up who'd be willing to induce lactation and take over . . . . I mean, he won't be nursing to sleep when he's like 28, right??? :yawning:


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## ndunn (Mar 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dimples_2005*
My boy slept through the night starting at 5 weeks, then stopped at 4 months. The universe is balanced for my ignorant boasting about what a great sleeper I had.







:


Me too!

We were so rested until around 4 months and then BANG. We have occasional ok nights but mostly if we co-sleep dd is up every hour. Putting her in a basinette next to our bed really has helped her sleep longer, although I love co-sleeping SO much so I'm so dissapointed.


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## maryteresa (Mar 14, 2006)

My DS is up every couple of hours. He is 19 mos old. We just recently stopped nursing at night, which has helped a bit. We also have him stay in his own bed now. He was soooo restless in our bed that none of us were sleeping.







It was so bad. He started climbing over me to get out of bed while he was still asleep. Now one of us is up a couple of times a night to get him back to sleep. It is exhausting. I'm glad to hear there are others. My oldest was a good sleeper, so I didn't expect this. I just keep telling myself he will sleep through the night in his own time, and try to stay relaxed about it. It isn't always easy though.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Are the 5 of us really alone in the world? Or is everyone else napping and trying to catch up on sleep?


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## Mommy2Jackson (Dec 5, 2005)

I think I could belong here as well







.

My ds is 15 months and been a terrible sleeper but we are finally getting a little more sleep. He sleeps with us, sleeps the best this way and as long as I am right next to him when he wakes up and can latch on and nurse. If I am not there he thinks the world is ending lol.

He is also very active and always has been. He does have bad reflux and food intolerance issues so sometimes I use to think that's why he never slept well, but I think it has to do with him being so active.

The hard part for him is usually getting him to sleep.....sometimes it can take hours. Glad to know I am not alone







.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

My son woke me up every hour last night, just by thrashing and kicking the bed. I was so mad...


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## AmyLaz (Aug 30, 2006)

Hugs, Liz







I hope you got a nap today.
My DS had a lowgrade fever yesterday, so he went to bed early in his own bed, then came downstairs around 10:30 while we were watching tv. He slept with me, and DH headed upstairs to sleep (the "guest" bedroom has turned into Daddy's bedroom







) We slept well until he wet the bed (2 or 3am I think, but who can remember!). Got him changed (fortunately the accident was contained to the waterproof pad I have him sleep on) and we went back to bed. Then, dd came in around 5:30 I think. She was content to lay on the air mattress next to my bed until about 6am - then she started nudging me to get up. I told her to go upstairs and get her dad


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD started sleeping through the night shortly after her third B-Day, and falling asleep without nursing. It was a VERY long road to get there. She was still waking up at least 3 times a night to nurse at age 2, 3 times was a good night.







We've always co-slept, it was the only way to get any sleep at all, she still needs us right next to her at night. DD just doesn't need much sleep, 10 hours a day is a great amount for her, and has been for a couple years now.







: It's not uncommon for me to go to sleep with her at night, and wake up when she does, and I'm still tired! Summer is always the hardest, she'll go to sleep between 10-11pm and wake up at 6-7am. Winter is easier because she sometimes will go to sleep at 9pm. She stopped taking naps at 2, even then they weren't every day. I've definately had to change my perceptions with dd, she will do things in her own time, it's just hanging on until then.







I'm keeping my fingers crossed about what kind of a sleeper #2 will be...


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Are there really only this few of us out there??







Actually I hope there are, I hope that crappy sleeping kids are something of an anomaly... gives me hope for our second one!


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## AmyLaz (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 
Are there really only this few of us out there??







Actually I hope there are, I hope that crappy sleeping kids are something of an anomaly... gives me hope for our second one!

Nah - there are more out there - they're just too sleep deprived to be able to find us right now


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

I didn't come here to oversimplify your sleep deprivation, I totally understand how difficult that makes life. However, I wanted to chime in to suggest (if you haven't already) that you try getting your child tested for food allergies. There is a lot of information linking sleep problems with allergies. If you're not into getting the testing done, then consider doing an elimination diet to see if you can pinpoint foods that are the root of the sleeplessness.

Also consider other homeopathic or herbal remedies that could help induce sleep. Sometimes nutrition plays a role in this as well... There are lots of solutions out there to help your sleep situations. Good luck in your quest to find more sleep!

Remember--healthy children do sleep well... so if you're child/baby isn't getting enough sleep it could be detrimental to his/her health as well as yours. Best wishes to you all!... sorry for sticking my nose in... I'm on a quest to spread the word about allergies. Thanks for letting me post here.


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## AmyLaz (Aug 30, 2006)

You make an excellent point, Jaidy. I will begin research on that. On the natural remedy front, do you have any experience with melatonin supplements for children to help sleep?


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

Thanks! I have a friend who had taken melatonin to help her sleep... and I'm pretty sure that she gave a size appropriate dose to her dd 2yo. I would consult a professional about the dosage, because I'm not sure how much that would be.

My son has foods he's super gassy with, and he also has had food allergies... his best friend had severe allergy reaction in that she wouldn't selep more than 45 min in one stretch (and that was not the norm).

GOod luck!


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

I am happy to report, that my crappy sleeper is actually getting better. (well I'm not holding my breath, but he seems to be!) We gently started getting him into his own bed, and he wasn't happy with the idea at first, but nobody was rested and we couldn't take it anymore. We still help him get settled, he gets cuddles and nursies, and we always go in to help him in the night if he needs it. I have read about kids who just don't cosleep well, they actually sleep better in their own space, and I think that's my DS. He actually seems to be more rested now that he's got his own spot. If he wakes up early and I take him in bed with me, sometimes I get OK sleep and other times, he's kicking and thrashing like he always did before.

However, DH and I are still not sleeping the best!! We are so used to being interrupted that our brains are still hypervigilant at night! And being pregnant doesn't help, the baby often wakes up if I'm awake and kicks me for a while as I'm trying to sleep.


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## cutic (May 19, 2005)

OK, I just found this thread. I guess, my dd has always refused sleep. She stopped napping at around 18 months but then she slept 12 hours at night. Of course, doesn't mean she slept through the night. Until probably 5 months ago, that is when she was 27 months old she would wake up a couple of times before I even was ready to sleep. So if she went to sleep at 8 pm, she would be up 3 times before I joined her. After I laid down with her for the night she would have a 2-3 hour stretch of sleep and then would again wake up every 2, 1.5 hours. I think her sleep became now more mature and she sleeps better. She usually nurses to sleep, goes down between 8 and 9 depending on the day and will wake up two times during her 11 hours of sleep which is a huge improvement for me.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

I just stumbled very wearily across this thread. I have a whole housefull of crappy sleepers. My children are all pretty much night owls. They would be wonderfully happy to go to sleep at 2:00 am every night. Tonight I lucked out and the last child went to sleep a half an hour ago, and what am I doing? Posting to MDC







:


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Mama8... we tried to let DS stay up til he was pretty much ready to crash, and we wore out long before he did...


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## njohnson (Mar 18, 2006)

I didn't even know this tribe existed!!! I am totally in!!! I have a major crappy sleeper!! 7.5 months old. Won't sleep in crib, very restless sleeper, comfort nurser constantly at night!







: Driving me crazy, however, I love to sleep with him. But, my back is killing me and I haven't had more than 2.5 hours of straight sleep for over 7 months now!!! Argh!!!


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## peacepiece (Mar 21, 2005)

count me in too! My dd is 14 months. She does great with the 7pm-12am and then it's all down hill from there! Waking just about every 2 hrs.UGGH! And it always changes as soon as you start saying how well they sleep...Hope to have a better night tonight!


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

I just saw this.

I'm a mommy of a frequent waker(s) too. DD1 slept thru the night from 2mths until she hit 9mths old. Since then she wakes up about 2-4x a night. Her worse night ever, was when i counted that i got up for her 12x in a span of 1.5hrs.







:

She did sleep better after about 2yrs old but since she started school, it's worse. Also since she started school, dd2 wakes up in the middle of the night, missing her sister. So we get to have them both in our bedroom by 2am.

The baby sleep better than those two.


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## nova22 (Jun 26, 2004)

Just checking in on this thread. I have three kids. The oldest has always had difficulty at night. He is three and still wakes during the night, although we have worked with him a lot so that when he wakes, it isn't so disruptive to all of our schedules. We set up a little nest for him next to our bed so he can wander in at any time and sleep on the floor, and the understanding is that he doesn't wake us up unless he had a nightmare or needs help with something.

He also had night terrors for a while, which was just awful. I had a really hard time with that, but it did help a lot once I finally realized what was going on.


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## uncertain (Mar 13, 2006)

I just found this...so count me in too! DS is almost one and wakes around every 1.5-2 hours.
Last night I got 4 uninterrupted hours of sleep in a row, the first time that has happened in over 6 months, so I'm feeling pretty high today!! It wasn't him who woke up, though, it was ME, and his head was sleeping between the wall and the bedframe, oh my goodness that was panic for me! I wonder if I woke up because I unconsciously felt that something was wrong, or if my brain is just used to waking up so much?!?!!
So, here's wishing at least 4 hours uninterrupted to all of us tonight! (most people I know IRL would be absolutely horrified if I told them how excited I was over 4 hours of sleep.....)


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Hey, mamas! I am wondering if this tribe might be better suited to the Nighttime Parenting forum. You could still call it a tribe, but finding your tribe has some specific guidelines:

Quote:

Though Finding Your Tribe was originally opened to help parents find each other based on their location we have welcomed tribe threads for parents of a like-minded path to meet and chit chat with one another. However, such threads should not take a focus of discussion for a topic that is hosted in an existing forum at MDC.

A natural course of chit chat discussion might carry you into discussing your daily lives and sharing events and struggles. But focused discussion of a parenting topic, a breastfeeding issue or problem, an activist or political issue, a religious concern or belief, just to name a few, should go to the appropriate forum for discussion with the larger MDC community. If you have any question in this regard feel free to check with the moderators before posting. Should you post or thread not be appropriate for FYT on this basis it may be moved to the appropriate forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=168763

So, if conversation is mostly going to center around sleep issues rather than "chit chat," nighttime parenting would be a better home.

Let me know what you think!
Annette


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

I found this after it was suggested it be moved so hopefully I can find it again. I am the mom of a crummy sleeper! Unfortuanely, he is 10. No, not 10 months - 10 years. He is incredibly active, plays recreational soccer and competetive hockey and lacrosse and still very little sleep. He has multiple allergies, all being treated, as well as well controlled asthma so melatonin is contraindicated. if I'm not welcome I'll go back to my corner.







:


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *34me* 
I found this after it was suggested it be moved so hopefully I can find it again. I am the mom of a crummy sleeper! Unfortuanely, he is 10. No, not 10 months - 10 years. He is incredibly active, plays recreational soccer and competetive hockey and lacrosse and still very little sleep. He has multiple allergies, all being treated, as well as well controlled asthma so melatonin is contraindicated. if I'm not welcome I'll go back to my corner.







:


Oh goodness, no, please don't go back to your corner... not unless it's your quiet nap spot! If you're awake, please stick around! What have you found over the years that has helped him? Or should I say, helped all of you get more sleep?


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## Minoh (Jan 19, 2006)

Count me in too! I have a 10mo that sleeps terribly! I nurse him to sleep at night starting in his sidecar crib. He wakes after 30min. I nurse him back to sleep. Then he wakes every hour til we come to bed. Then he wakes every 1-2hrs all night long, comfort nursing each time. I don't know what would help. I'm thinking of craniosacral therapy but am not sure if that would do anything to help with sleep or not.







:


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

My ds is 3 and a terrible sleeper. He slept good, waking only once a night until he was 2 months old. Just when it seemed he was going to start sleeping thru, he started to get restless and woke every hour - sometimes 4 times an hour.







: In desperation I latched him every time he woke or was restless and fell back asleep. Worked for a while, but now at 3 years he still wakes 2--5 times a night and needs to nurse back to sleep.







: I am jealous of those pp who say their 3 yo are now sleeping thru!


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

DS1 is four years old now. DS2 is 4 *months.* Guess which one keeps me awake more.

It sucks. When DS2 was born, DH was supposed to take over nighttime parenting of DS1. He did, mostly, for about three months. Then I guess he decided he was tired or something, and now it's all me, all night, every night.


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## CB73 (Apr 16, 2005)

Hello.









DS1 is 38 months old, that is OVER 3 YEARS...and has literally slept from his bedtime 7:30pm(ish) - 5am a total of 4 times in his entire life. Thankfully, one of those times was the night I delivered DS2!
Anyhow - he still wakes at least once, sometimes twice, calling for DAAADEEEE, or MOOOMMM MOOOMMM and needs to be gently snuggled back to sleep. (Sometimes with a 2 oz bottle of soy milk







) He is free to cosleep with us, or be in his own futon bed....we keep the routine consistent so bedtime is a breeze these days, but we cannot figure out why he continues to wake at night without fail.
(I believe that kids sometimes do wake, just as adults do at night, but somehow my DS1 cannot, or doesn't want to simply roll over & go back to sleep - he wants US. )

Ah well....glad to know we are not alone!

Oh, and for the record - he used to wake at minimum 3-5x a night so this waking once or twice is an improvement! But now we are wondering if it is something WE do as parents in our household since his 13MO brother shows similar patterning at night. *sigh*


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## mommydoodle (May 12, 2005)

Oh me too! DD is 24 months and if she isn't awake she's talking in her sleep or twirling my hair (not fun). She starts out in her bed and ususally comes i with us before midnight. We don't mind cosleeping but it would be nice for her to sleep through whether with us or by herself. Just when you think it's getting better - there comes a cold or tooth to mess it all up!

Maybe we should all move into a commune and take turns sleeping - LOL!


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

Quote:

I didn't come here to oversimplify your sleep deprivation, I totally understand how difficult that makes life. However, I wanted to chime in to suggest (if you haven't already) that you try getting your child tested for food allergies. There is a lot of information linking sleep problems with allergies. If you're not into getting the testing done, then consider doing an elimination diet to see if you can pinpoint foods that are the root of the sleeplessness.
My son has been diagnosed with a peanut allergy, and while we've eliminated all of the peanut products from our house, I wonder if there are any that have sneaky, peanut'ish ingredients in them that we havn't discovered yet. I've been noticing that he randomly gets a rash around his mouth (which is one of the symptoms we noticed with the original peanut allergy), so it's possible that if he's getting some, somewhere, it could be affecting his sleep.

Anyway, I have a restless sleeper. He's 17 months old, and has been co-sleeping since day 1 with no issues. In the past month or so, he's been a HORRIBLE sleeper. Suddenly nursing all night, having periods where he just flops around and grumps, puts his feet in our faces, sits upright and starts talking, climbs onto my head. It's not unusual for DH to get up in the middle of the night and take him downstairs for awhile, just so I can get some sleep!

I've been toying with the idea of transitioning him to his bed. I know that when my daughter started going through this, we tried her in the crib and had success. It seemed that she just wanted some space (we were all crammed in a double bed in those days - now we have a king.)


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## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Heck, I'll join. Hi, my name is Lisa and my son is a crappy sleeper!

He woke multiple times during the night from the time he was born until he finished getting all his teeth (at 3 yo). He is now rounding in on 3.5 and still wakes up during the night for a bottle. I would say that 3-4 nights a week he sleeps until about 6:30-7:00 AM but then needs a bottle to get back to sleep. Since we generally don't go to bed until 12:30 AM - 1 AM (DH and I both work late shifts) that means DS generally only sleeps 5-6 hours before waking up.

He got hooked on the bottle at night because I was working nights from the time he was born until he was 18 months old. After 13 months he refused the breast at night, then he weaned himself to the bottle completely at 18 months. We have tried to get him off the bottle a few times, but he is just not ready... he cries like his little heart is breaking if we tell him he can't have it.

DS has trouble transitioning from being asleep to being awake. He tends to get hysterical if someone is not right there to soothe and reassure him when he starts to wake up. It was far worse when he was little, he would wake up and just start screaming for HOURS and there wasn't a whole lot we could do to help him







. He still does this occasionally and it is just so frustrating - I keep asking him to just TELL me what the problem is but he's generally too far gone to communicate effectively.

He's a very high needs child in general, but couple that with the lack of sleep and you get two very tired and strung out parents.







Just contemplating having another child is quickly quelled by reminiscing on DS's babyhood: do I really want to go through that again? Oh no. Oh god no!


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Sign me up. I just posted about this very thing. I'm done trying to make her sleep with me. I've tried just about everything to salvage the co-sleeping thing, and none of it's working. She'll sleep 2-3 hour stretches, like a log to boot, ONLY if she's in her own room. Otherwise she has to stay litterally attached to the nipple all night long, and will lazily flutter nurse every 45 minutes to an hour while grazing me with her teeth. I'm exhausted and my nipples freaking hurt.


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## EastonsMom (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 
Are there really only this few of us out there??







Actually I hope there are, I hope that crappy sleeping kids are something of an anomaly... gives me hope for our second one!

HAHAHAH!!!!

Can I be Secratary? E. is horribale, not going to bitch because I know that at least one person has it worse than me and we have all BTDT but just wanted to join in! THis is reason numero uno that E. is an only child for a long time to come!!!!! I know everysays, oh your next one will be the total opposite..... yeah, not with my luck. A part of me says have another one now and don't get used to sleep before I dove back in but I dpon't think my physical and mental health can handle that!


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## jennythx (Oct 26, 2005)

I am hopping on this band wagon.

My DD is a horrible sleeper. We just gave up on cosleeping.







She really seems happier in her own space. She was up every hour, nursing almost all night long when we co-sleeped. We are trying the NCSS and it worked great for the first week. But we are back to waking up every 1/2-2 hours and now I have to drag myself out of bed. I tried to bring her back in the bed last night and she would have none of it.

From what I have read from all the previous posts, I may be in for the long haul too. I am still hoping she will outgrow this. I can't imagine being this tired for another couple of years.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

So, whats tricks, tips has work for you? to get them to sleep a bit longer?

For me, it is to bring them in our room especially for dd1. DD2 follows her sister, so we get them both in the middle of the night.

My next trick is to get them a double bed and see if they will sleep better together.


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## bornbythesea (Oct 24, 2006)

We belong to this tribe for sure! DS is so active during the day, he just does not want to slow down at night. He actually crawls in his sleep. He wakes up every hour, and we cannot figure out why. We are at the point of considering using the crib, though I think it just might make things worse. We are all so desperate for sleep. I feel as though I am not the parent I would like to be because I am just so tired. Every night, DH and I just shake our heads and cross our fingers. He also slept so well until about four months. What happened?
Wishing "good' nights to you all


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

DD is 25 months, has always co-slept in our bed, though she does have her own mattress, attached to our bed (she's a mover during the night - around 19 months we needed more space!)... and currently wakes every 1.5 - 3 hours through the night to nurse or cuddle. The rare 4-hour stretches I'm usually still awake (I'm a crappy sleeper too, no surpise). Glad we're not the only ones!


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Yay, here's a great tribe for me! Although I admit my son is not quite as bad a sleeper as many of the little ones here









The only thing so far I've found to help my son is to lie down with him at nap time. I know this won't work for many people, but it's the only way I can get him to take naps longer than 20-45 mins. If he dosn't take at least 2 one hour naps he sleeps worse at night.

He seems to sleep worse at night near me...like he can smell me and that distracts him. Plus my husband is always moving around which I think keeps him up...and he's pretty restless himself...always moving around.


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## ottermonkey (Mar 3, 2006)

me too!!!!

ds is just about to be one and i can count on my hands the number of times he has slept for than four hours, sometimes 2 hours...lately, up every hour til i come to bed then two three hour chunks then nurse all morning (6-i can't take it anymore.....

somedays i am really serene about the whole thing and somedays i am ashamed of my lack of patience.


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## njohnson (Mar 18, 2006)

Ok, I have gone through and read all of these posts again and I am discouraged now! I don't want this constant waking and night nursing to continue for years to come!!! Recently, I have tried to get him back to sleep without nursing (co-sleeping). It worked, but not until he cried for about 45 minutes. He was very angry, crying and kept crawling over to me climbing on me trying to get me to nurse him. I just stuck with it and refused (because he had just nursed 45 minutes prior to that) and eventually he went back to sleep. But, he had to be right next to me!! Literally, laying on my arm with his face right in mine.

We have a king size bed. My husband doesn't sleep with us cause my DS wakes so often. I am ALWAYS on the edge of the bed because DS pushes me over there by rolling over several times until he is comfortable - waste of bed space I tell you!! I am getting so tired of it!! As I said before, I love to cuddle with him and I love the security of him in my bed, but I wonder if he is in his own bed if he will sleep for longer stretches of time. Problem is, everytime I put him in his bed, he immediately wakes up, cries and stands up in the crib. Is it hopeless????????????????


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

How old is your ds? Honestly, you're his comfort.....his special person. They want to be close and keep that comfort with nursing. (I'm sure you know this, I'm just re-iterating is all).

I believe that my son keeps dh and I up and vice versa. I have to wait until he is deeply asleep before I transfer him to his crib. I have the blankets warmed up with a heating pad first, then take it off before I put him in, so his blankets are nice and warm. I know you've said you've tried this, but your son will have to be DEEPLYf asleep...that could take a while to wait for, and in the meantime y\ou can fall sleep waiting for this. If ds wakes up and keeps waking up, I just bring him to bed with me and we try again the next night. Early in the morning after he wakes up again (on a good night it's about 3x) he comes into bed to stay.

Honsetly, if he's crying hard for 45 mins wanting to nurse....that's likely the only thing that's going to comfort him and he knows it. Perhaps he even needs it. If you are cosleeping and trying to get him to sleep by not nursing, it's not going to work...he can smell you right there and knows you're there...not nursing him will just make him more unhappy and take longer for him to settle.

I know this isn't really helpful.....you aren't really alone. I've sort of resigined myself to the situation, since I refuse to let him CIO, and now it kinda works once I discovered I have to wait to let him be deeply asleep. I'm a night owl anyway so this works.


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## JkFelix (May 27, 2005)

This is definately the tribe for me. My one year old wakes almost every hour from the time she goes to bed at around 8 or 9 pm until morning. Nothing gets her back to sleep but nursing. I wouldn't mind so much if she didn't stay latched on the whole night. At times it feels as if I am nursed raw! I am at my wit's end!!!


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## heather_lynn68 (Nov 1, 2006)

My daughter is 17 months and has never slept through the night. She was waking up almost every hour to nurse. We got her a big girl bed at 1 year since then she sleeps in it about 3 hours (if I'm lucky) each night. I just became pregnant and my daughter stopped nursing cold turkey, she knew before I did. Since she has stopped nursing at night she has been sleeping longer stretches. She still tosses and turns but I love having her next to me at night. I am hoping by age 3 she will be sleeping through the night


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## jiva (May 25, 2006)

I totally belong here!














Ds has co-slept from the start, he's now 19 months. At around 6 months, since he was nursing less at night, we would put him in his own bed (in our room) and he would sleep until 5 or 6 and then nurse and dose back off. He kept this up, unless he was teething, until dh started to work evening. Dh would come home and shower (and our last home was tiny and our beds were right next to the bathroom) and it seemed to cause ds to sleep lighter...so he would be awake by 1 or 2 a.m.

We've since moved, ds has his own room and toddler bed away from the sounds of dh showering but I think he just made a new habit of getting up. He climbs into our bed, some nights as early as 11...and if we're really lucky, he'll only kick us enough to wake us a couple of times...but there have been numerous nights that he wakes up, walks around, talks, etc.,etc. I have to say though, since the time changed and it's now darker earlier, he seems to sleep longer in his own bed...strange. Oh, and Calms Forte 4 Kids helps when he starts getting super restless in his sleep (or can't fall asleep to begin with). Wow, we have no clue what to do.

I had insomnia as a child and I'm so afraid he'll have it too. I don't want him to have to deal with that!!!







: And I'm pregnant and we only have a double bed, so it's getting cramped...and I know the new baby will be in there with us too since I'll be nursing, that's why we want ds to learn to sleep, at least most of the night, on his own. He feels better in the morning when he's slept longer in his bed...I guess his sleep is less disturbed since he logs more hours before making the trek to our bed.

Oy, best of luck to us all.

jiva


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## anitaj71 (Mar 1, 2006)

Subbing . . .

15 month old ds hasn't ever slept longer than 3 hours and the last time he did that was about two weeks ago. Otherwise he is up 4 -5 times a night. I don't know what it feels like to be awake and feel 'good'. His 3 hour sleep stretches are few and far between. Could someone on this thread get their magic wand out and spread some sleeping dust on our horrible sleepers ?

Double espresso anyone?







:


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## Shelleybelly (Sep 21, 2005)

Hi. Ds is 27 months old and is a challenging sleeper too. Always has been (although lately it has been getting better). When I was pregnant last summer (just before his first birthday) it would take us around 2 hours to get hime to sleep, then he was waking up every 45 minutes throughout the night and getting up most nights around 1:00am for an hour or so to eat (he was still nursing but I had lost my milk supply). Between him not sleeping and being pregnant I was really afraid I was going to loose my mind.

As I said, he is doing a lot better now. Most nights it takes 30 minutes to an hour to get him to sleep and then he'll sleep for 4 or 5 hours (until about midnight) in his own room at which point he will come to our bed. From that point he'll wake up every two hours or so to nurse. The nice thing is he'll only nurse for about 15 minutes then go back to sleep (as long as I sleep with my back to him so he doesn't smell my breasts







).

The biggest problem with him is that he is a super light sleeper and can't be moved at all. It doesn't matter how deeply he is sleeping. He's been that way since he was born. Well DD is up now. Got to go!

ETA: The things I have noticed that have helped are putting him on a night time routine and most importantly getting him exercise during the day. If we don't go to the playground or take him out for a walk he is up all night.


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## megincl (Sep 10, 2002)

Apparently I was in too much of an exhausted haze to find this tribe until now!









But seriously, DS is 3.5 and has been a horrible sleeper since about day 10 or so. Phew it's been a long ride. Mostly now I just accept it. It's become easier to accept since we've started using melatonin, which helps dramatically with the going to sleep. I was at a point until a few months ago when we started where I felt like the whole charade of going to sleep at night was ruining my life, my health, my vitality, etc. I know that's dramatic, but it was like an all-out fight -- nightly.








:







:

So, now DS has slept through the night 3 times in the last 2.5 months and we're pretty much just used to it.

I'm so curious to see how another kid will be when we get to bring another one into our family....and if getting up so much in the night with him/her will feel different or just like more of the same. I guess I hope for the latter -- not so much transition then!









Thanks for having this tribe!
megin


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## momoftworedheads (Mar 6, 2003)

My youngest son has never slept through the night. He is 21 months old. He wakes up nightly. Sometimes it is 1-2 times. Many times he wants to get out of bed and run for hours. He has PDD-NOS. He had a sleep study last weekend. We will see what it says next week.

I do let my son stay up until 9-10 pm and sometimes he wakes up at 12 and sometimes at 1. I have not slept more than 2 hrs a time in years.

Happy sleeping to all of you. I know how frustrating it can be to never get sleep. I should be asleep now since I'll be up later!

Take care,


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## brandimn6217 (Aug 3, 2006)

Oh my gosh! I just found my long lost home! I actually just called the lac consultant who runs the local bfing support group (not LLL) and she said the only thing she has to suggest is letting my baby CIO. I feel like everyone in my family/group of friends/ etc except me is advocating for CIO. Even DH! But then again, he isn't there for it since he works at night.

I can't take it anymore. Dylan not sleeping is affecting me during the day as well as at night. Nothing is getting done in my house... literally nothing. My kitchen hasn't been cleaned in a week and there are no more dishes to cook on. I am avoiding work: my massages are suffering because I don't have to energy or spirit to put into them. I am not taking care of my husband. And worst of all, I resent the baby for keeping me awake and not allowing me any time just to breathe. I am getting angry over the slightest thing that Dylan does. The other day I lost it because he wouldn't hold still to get his diaper off.

Now he's nursing ALL night. And I mean, he is latched for the entire night. If I pull him off, he will cry and cry and cry. I don't know what to do anymore.... He's only 7 months but I can't work and nurse him all night. I can't sleep because I am so tired. I just don't know what to do anymore.


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## brandimn6217 (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *njohnson* 
Ok, Recently, I have tried to get him back to sleep without nursing (co-sleeping). It worked, but not until he cried for about 45 minutes. He was very angry, crying and kept crawling over to me climbing on me trying to get me to nurse him. I just stuck with it and refused (because he had just nursed 45 minutes prior to that) and eventually he went back to sleep. But, he had to be right next to me!! Literally, laying on my arm with his face right in mine.


This happened to me last night. Dylan had been nursing for an hour and I needed to get to sleep. He did the same thing and then cried for an hour when climbing on me and rooting didn't magically lift my shirt for him to nurse. Eventually, I just let him nurse bc it was easier.


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## Maggi315 (Aug 31, 2003)

I'd like to join the club. All of my kids have been crappy sleepers and I am just sick and tired of it (literally!) My 14 month old want to nurse all night and literally be latched on to the nipple. So I never get any sleep more than about 1-2 hours at a time. Which makes for a very cranky mommy. I absolutely have to take a nap during the day or I cannot make it. Again, literally. I have been having some health problems and I just can't do it anymore.

And if I do finally get the baby sleeping, I still have the others waking me up: bad dreams, asthma/allergy coughing, have to pee, need a drink, the list is endless.

Oh, sweet sleep!


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## Amy&4girls (Oct 30, 2006)

hello..I just saw this thread tonite..and it's definetely us! I have 4 girls..none of which has yet to sleep thru the nite. One of the twins wants to nurse ALL nite (literally..if she's not latched then she's crying!!)..my other twin is actually hospitalized right now so I have to do some pumping for her..my 3yo is no better..she's up and down all nite wanting to nurse..and my 5yo always needs something during the nite. I think I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll never sleep a whole nite again until they graduate from college!!

I am :yawning: and desperate..any advice on getting even just the older 2 to sleep thru the nite?


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## joeysmom1729 (Sep 12, 2006)

I definitely belong here. My ds also slept great from about 2-4 months and then it was all over. He doesn't nap unless he's nursing and falls asleep on me, and he now wakes about 5-8 times each night. I know he's only 7 months and I certainly don't expect him to be sleeping 12 hours straight, but I'm lucky if I get a 2 hour stretch. It's just getting very exhausting, I do all the nighttime parenting and I'm so







I can't even get his pictures taken because he's always too cranky from the lack of sleep.


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## ZaMasmom (Nov 6, 2006)

Where have I been for the last 2 1/2 years while all my friends kids slept and mind didn't. DS decided even to stop napping at 18 months while I was pregnant with dd and boy was THAT hard








So glad I found this little place I think will be my new home!!


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## ZaMasmom (Nov 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 







Mama8... we tried to let DS stay up til he was pretty much ready to crash, and we wore out long before he did...









I always wondered if that would work!!!


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## jenny-g (Nov 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *joeysmom1729* 
I definitely belong here. My ds also slept great from about 2-4 months and then it was all over. He doesn't nap unless he's nursing and falls asleep on me, and he now wakes about 5-8 times each night. I know he's only 7 months and I certainly don't expect him to be sleeping 12 hours straight, but I'm lucky if I get a 2 hour stretch. It's just getting very exhausting, I do all the nighttime parenting and I'm so







I can't even get his pictures taken because he's always too cranky from the lack of sleep.

Just thought I would chime in- we have a 7 month old, SAME EXACT SITUATION, but, she never, ever slept great. She does seem to get enough sleep though- not tired during the day, takes normal naps (but ONLY on top of the boppy on our laps- never, not one time, have we been able to move her wtihout her instantly waking, even if we wait a half hour, hour, whatever first. She is a rediculously light sleeper). Right now we are also just about at our wits' end, and am going to try to remove constant nursing and see if it helps. She's in a crib sidecared to our bed. She makes lots of noise, will cry, move around.. but she isn't actually awake when she is doing all of this. She also won't take a pacifier anymore (she used to, just a bit, when she was falling asleep and then spit it out. But now, she immediately launches it out of her mouth and gets mad.)

My husband does not wake up the way I do to her noises- part of the problem is that I am a bad sleeper too! So we are going to try something where I will sleep in another room on the aerobed on the floor, and he will bring her to me for her middle of the night feeding, (or I will go to her more likely), but he will deal with her otherwise. (Till now it has been me up all night with her). I am curious to see if his natural ability to not rouse to her lesser crying/fussing will actually help her calm down by herself a bit. We will see. I know that on here, with AP, people are generally pro only cosleeping, infinite nursing, etc. But I honestly believe some kids need their own space, and that includes the ability to fuss a bit without being immediately soothed. I don't think we should have to nurse ALL night- in fact, I think that can keep them awake and fussy. I think all "stimulants" have to be removed for some kids, and sometimes we are included in that.

I"ll let this thread know how our experiment goes after a week or so. We would never CIO, but I think lying next to her and saying "ssssssssshhhhhh" quietly as she fusses, but not nursing, is not CIO at all. I think my husband will be able to get away with that since he won't smell like milk- I think that wakes her up sometimes! -j


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Mmhh, I think this thread should be split into two, one for little ones and the other one for more grown-up ones to be of real use... anyway, my 4 yo and 5 yo wake on average respectively twice and once and this makes for a very active night on our side...


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Anybody getting any sleep?

We have all been puking here, it's stopped now but you would think after being sick, anyone (myself included would want MORE sleep) but no, not DS... UGH sometimes I wonder what I did to deserve a child who won't sleep...







:


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Well, my ds is sleeping better since I added flax seed oil to his yogurt to make him poop more frequently (he's anal retentive since I started to try and potty train him a year ago) and I added fennel herbal liquid to his juice which helps with the gas ( holding back your poop makes for an uncomfortable, gassy little boy at night







: ). I also give him melatonin and magnesium at night so he is actually going down at a reasonable hour and does not have to be driven to sleep anymore. So although he still wakes up 2-5 times a night it is a breeze to get him back to sleep. After what he put me through this past summer, when I was averageing 3 hours of sleep a night, this is wonderful!


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

Me! 4 month old is a horrible sleeper (aren't all 4 month olds) dd#1 is 28 months old and wakes in the middle of the night demanding milk and whining herself back to sleep. Don't get me started on actually GETTING her to sleep. uggh!







:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

so happy to find this tribe. i've rarely slept more than 4 hrs straight in nearly 6 years. (i was an insomniac preggo after i couldn't stomach sleep anymore).

as i type this, both kids (dd1-5-1/2, dd2-22mos)(cosleep in a vast twin+qween on the floor) are up and whinily awake as of 5:45 because i refused to help them back to sleep the umpteenth time because i was up reading about all the other crappy sleepers!! we usually wake/rise at 7, ie i keep patting/nursing them back down until then. they seem to know when i've left and wake up and follow me, so i'll stay in bed and they'll stay asleep longer/wake less in the early morning if i'm there, even though i usually can't get back to sleep between their wakings as of 5:45 or so.

today dd1 was scratching so much (eczema) between 2:45 and 4 that i ended up wide awake and snuck dowstairs to the computer. of course dd2 (sleeping soundly and very still when i left) woke up 15 min later. i got her back to sleep with 10 min nursing, came back downstairs, and i had an hour to myself before one woke again and woke the other and they both came downstairs. dh was up, so i ignored them, i.e. refused to take them back to bed. of course i'll pay for that later when dd2 wants to nap at 10 instead of 12!

dd1 was a reasonable night sleeper (woke 3-4 times) until her second round of injections at 4 mos (ah, 20/20 hindsight). then all hell broke loose and she had to stay attached all night and be held by mostly only me all day. i'm a stomach sleeper and can't sleep well nursing because my brain keeps saying "turn over so i can go to sleep." if i even managed to detatch her verrrry carefully, she'd wake up by 20 min later. bought the sears fussy baby book where i read about food allergies affecting sleep (she had other signs too: gassy, contipated at times, mucousy green poops, target sign on her anus...) and eliminated everything except about 13 foods. immediately she was much better: back to 3-4 wakings, even would let others hold her or be put down a few minutes. but i couldn't live on just lamb turkey rice millet zuccini yams pears forever and the turkey would make me sleepy on top of the sleep deprivation. and after a while (3? weeks) she started to react to those foods too, from constant exposure. sometimes she'd sleep for 3 hrs if she was put in the sling on dh after i nursed her back to sleep. but dh would have to sit up on the couch or she'd wake, and he wouldn't do this more than 1-2x/wk. teething was hell, but ibuprofen would help if i could figure out it was teething (instead if food issues) by her sleeping nursing quality (tense/clampy, instead of light/fluttery). introducing food was hell.

we tried NAET and diagnosed intestinal candida (her and me) at 22mos, and went on 6 wk awful diet plus herbs and improved that, and sleep got a little better, but she still woke at least 4 times until i night weaned (to TTC), and at worst 17 times in 10 hours. when i night weaned it took hand holding with each waking and 2 mos before she started sleeping well (0-2 wakings), and another mos for me to sleep well. then a trip to india messed sleep up again (12 hr jet lag means playtime from 1-5am for a week or so, coming home the same again), then i got pregnant and my own insomnia started again.......
*
to all those fearing a second child*, i know it's a gamble, but i've heard it's an easier adjustment the second time (it was for me). your brain just deals with it better. also you've given up the expectation that you even could sleep a long time. you feel less frustrated, thus more relaxed, thus you sleep better, fall back asleep faster. also, i had this idea the first time around that when she stopped waking me up so much i'd feel terrific. it didn't happen. i was actually getting adequate sleep after a while on the days she'd only wake 1-2x, and was managing, but was thinking of myself as sleep deprived and feeling a teeny bit virtuous/sorry for myself, and waiting for the time i'd get a full night's sleep. then it happened (a few times post jet lag and pre-pregnancy i got 6 straight hrs), and it wasn't much different. in the early days of dd1s bad phase if i got 4 straight hours i'd wake up so refreshed and energetic that i was sort of high on it and i was expecting that feeling again.

i got lucky with dd2 and she's a much mellower kid, never vacc'd, only has slight eczema allergy-wise, and wakes 2-4x, and sometimes can be patted back to sleep (thank goodness, because she's not a good latcher and i get sore). and i adjusted to the 2-4x pretty easily. i haven't felt like taking a sledgehammer to the walls like i did in the early days with dd1, can function pretty well as long as i get at least 6 hrs total in chunks of 2-4 hrs most nights, and go to bed with the kids half the time so i can get 8 or so out of the 11 we're in bed. ......but every now and then i fantasize of the day when i can sleep uninterrupted again.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

unbelievable!!!

dd2 has slept 7 hrs straight 2 nights in a row, right after i posted my moaning and groaning. the first night i slept it too, the 2nd dd1 woke up to whimper and pee (requires an escort due to anxious clingyness) but i still got 5 straight.

we're on vacation from kindergarten and all semblance of routine has been thrown out the window, and suddenly they're both sleeping better. coincidence? whatever it is, i'll take it while i can get it. it can't last, can it? maybe?...


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
unbelievable!!!

dd2 has slept 7 hrs straight 2 nights in a row, right after i posted my moaning and groaning. the first night i slept it too, the 2nd dd1 woke up to whimper and pee (requires an escort due to anxious clingyness) but i still got 5 straight.

we're on vacation from kindergarten and all semblance of routine has been thrown out the window, and suddenly they're both sleeping better. coincidence? whatever it is, i'll take it while i can get it. it can't last, can it? maybe?...

That's great news. WTG your dds.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

All of a sudden, we are in bedtime hell. I don't know what's going on now, it seems like there is something every time things start to get OK, something else happens. I'm almost 30 weeks pregnant and starting to get scared that having another baby will take us to a whole new level of hell. Sleep deprivation is used as torture in some places. No wonder I feel so tortured.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 
Are there really only this few of us out there??







Actually I hope there are, I hope that crappy sleeping kids are something of an anomaly... gives me hope for our second one!

You are not alone. My 22-month-old slept through the night for the first time ever last month. One night. Other than that, once in a blue moon she'll sleep 5-6 hours at a stretch. Mostly, though, it's every 3 hours. Oh, the irony. I was a champion sleeper...

eta: Sometimes I wonder how wacky I seem to other people. I mean, when I began the quick decline into brainless, exhausted parenthood, I knew it was happening. Now I can still tell, but it doesn't seem as bad. Or is it? Maybe I am well rested and don't know it?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teacup* 
...once in a blue moon she'll sleep 5-6 hours at a stretch. Mostly, though, it's every 3 hours. Oh, the irony. I was a champion sleeper...

eta: Sometimes I wonder how wacky I seem to other people. I mean, when I began the quick decline into brainless, exhausted parenthood, I knew it was happening. Now I can still tell, but it doesn't seem as bad. Or is it? Maybe I am well rested and don't know it?

you probably are better rested than you think. once you're used to the 2-3 wakings a night thing you tend to get adequate rest, as long as you total 6-8 hrs most nights. you just still feel dumber than your old sharp-as-a-tack self. i think it's a lot to due with the freeform, discontinous ("now, what was i just doing?..."), schizophrenic nature of hanging out with little kids, combined with the oxytocin/prolactin effect from nursing.

so now that this is in nighttime parenting it's dying. oh,well...


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Checking in here... My 13 month old dd is a horrible napper/sleeper.


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
...you probably are better rested than you think....

Oh crap. I am in real trouble, then!

***

Okay, so is your poor sleeper tough to get to sleep, too, you all? Or just won't stay asleep? And does s/he stay awake, or just wake often?


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## mamums (Jun 10, 2006)

DS (3 months) is a crappy sleeper and napper and has been since day 1. Putting him to bed at night is a struggle. On a good night, we can get him down at about 12:30 (after he's been on and off mama's breast for a few hours and papa has been walking him around in a pouch for a good 30~40 minutes). We try getting him down earlier, but he's just not interested in sleeping. After he's down, he gets up about 4 times during the night to nurse or because one of us made too much noise while rolling over or he gets startled awake by his own farts.

Getting him to nap during the day is a challenge also. He'll doze in and out when he's worn or while he's nursing. Forget about getting him to nap off of mama. Once he's taken off the breast or out of a sling, he's bright eyed and bushy tailed, ready to take off. And then he looks at me like, "Mama, why are you so tired all the time??? Lazy woman!"







:


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## cheesedreams (Mar 16, 2004)

I know that little ones do frequently wake at night, but this time it's killing me. Ds#1 didn't sleep through the night until he was nightweaned at 20 mo (in an effort for me to get pg) and now is a really good sleeper (own bed next to our big bed). But dear ds#2 is now, at 11 weeks starting to wake all the time and I'm having trouble functioning during the day. It's different because I have to take care of an incredibly busy toddler during the day this time, so I can't rest.

Any thoughts or tips for co-sleeping with dc#2??? Is this just a growth spurt (please say yes!) and will he go back to his 3-4 hour sleep periods in the near future???

Thanks!







:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

dd1 was always hard to get to sleep, hard to stay asleep. finally at 5 1/2 she's ok to get/get back to sleep, wakes 1-3x/night. high need/allergic, wakes up from scratching herself these days, or to pee, or nightmares at times.

dd2 mellow, but still hard to wind down to get to sleep. sleep routine with her sister 7-8pm (bath, snack, teeth, story, nurse), stays awake longer than the 10-20 min nursing i can tolerate (shallow latch-likes it that way and slides off halfway despite frequent re-latches/training), tosses, turns, and generally fights going to sleep. i usually fall asleep first. for naps, though, she generally drops of with 5-10 min nursing, sleeps 1-2 hours well. that is, up until 3 weeks ago. now she wakes crying after 45min-1hr, wants to nurse back to sleep. no more free time for me! ??WHY??? teething?...she got all her 16 teeth by 16 mos (even those canines due at 18-24 mos); maybe she's getting 2yr molars?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheesedreams* 
dear ds#2 is now, at 11 weeks starting to wake all the time and I'm having trouble functioning during the day. It's different because I have to take care of an incredibly busy toddler during the day this time, so I can't rest.

Any thoughts or tips for co-sleeping with dc#2??? Is this just a growth spurt (please say yes!) and will he go back to his 3-4 hour sleep periods in the near future???

Thanks!







:

did he get vax'd at 2mos? my dd1, while high need from birth, only started the all night unhappy baby thing after round 2 of vax at 4 mos triggered worsening of allergies. before that she slept 2-3hrs at a time, and would let go when she was full each nursing; i couldn't even wake her up to take the other side sometimes (hoping fuller belly=longer sleep). any allergy signs? "target" sign around the anus (=bright red), constipation alternating with the runs, mucusy poops, clear runny nose, hyper at times... can't remember other signs, too long ago. sears' fussy baby book has a good section on allergies.

HTH


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## Sylith (Apr 15, 2002)

DS1 is four and has always been a terrible sleeper. Hard to get to sleep, lots of waking, stays awake a long time after waking (seriously, at least once a week he'll be awake for two hours or more in the middle of the night,) nightmares, sleep talking, night terrors...

DS2 is 5 months. He sleeps far better than DS1 did at that age, but does wake 3 or so times to nurse.

I do 99% of nighttime parenting in our house. I feel like I'm about to hit the wall, here...


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## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

joining...

My DS is a fabulous sleeper and always has been, from about 2 months of age. My DD is another story...

She will not sleep without me. Naps are always in a carrier on my back, and nighttime is wake and nurse at least every hour for the first few hours then a bit longer stretches through the night. If I am not there when she wakes, she cries and cries.

I tried a few months ago to put her to sleep in a pack n play for the first part of the night so I could leave the room and gee, maybe talk to my DH for a change. But she hated in there. So I leave her in bed after I nurse her down and run in there each time she cries until I am ready to get in with her. Often she is sitting up in bed crying and looking for me.

Some nights I find it very frustrating, other nights I can deal with it better.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

my dd has been up every hour or so for the past two weeks
Help me!!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

...bump...

anyone sleeping?

i've been lurking in the allergies section and "healing the gut tribe" threads; lots of crappy sleepers over there.

anybody here dealing with allergies?


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

Dd1 slept thru the night 3x at the end of last wk and now is back to her usual wakings. *sign* It was good while it lasted. Hopefully she will start again soon.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

formerluddite said:


> ...bump...
> 
> anyone sleeping?
> 
> nope, not yet


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## teacup (Nov 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
...bump...

anyone sleeping?

i've been lurking in the allergies section and "healing the gut tribe" threads; lots of crappy sleepers over there.

anybody here dealing with allergies?


My daughter has had a bad rash on her face for a few weeks now and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. She has reflux as a baby, so I'm beginning to suspect a milk allergy. She does have excema, so I have been spiking her oatmeal with flax oil. Works like a charm for her dry trunk, but her face is a mess. It's like acne. I digress.

But she has slept through two nights this week. That is the second and third time. In her life. And she's almost 2. I woke at 6am, with a start and couldn't sleep. She woke at 7am when SO went to check on her, worried because she wasn't awake. We're trying to cut her two-hour nap to one in hopes that she'll sleep better at night.


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Can I join?








I'm at my wits end with the rest of you. My 18 month old ds is on a bad sleeping kick that's lasted about 4 months now. It coincided with his molars starting to come in, and he's only got three of them (and 6 teeth besides that, so we have a LOT of teething left). I'm delirious. He eats plenty during the day, he wants to nurse near constantly at night. I don't mind nursing him during the night - it's the marathon "I'll scream if you remove your nipple from my mouth at any time" crap, and THE GROPING that drives me absolutely NUTS. He can. Not. Nurse. unless he is clawing at my other breast. I can't take it - the groping has been going on for almost a year. Seriously. I've tried every single trick in the book (and I had lots) to get him to stop, and it's impossible. So, night nursing keeps me 100% awake, fighting off his clawing, mauling hands. I get about 3 hrs a night, dh will not do (he wants me, and only me if I'm nursing him). I'm starting to resent night nursing (nursing AT ALL, even, especially when I'm completely empty and he's just gnawing on me), and that makes me sad on top of being infinitely tired.









*sigh*

There, feels good to just bitch about it.


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm gonna jump in on this too. Last night ds woke up at 1:30 (it was his 2nd waking at least) and was awake until 3:30, which meant I was awake that whole time too. He nursed for a while when he first woke, then he was just too wiggly, sticking his bum in the air with my nipple in his mouth (ouch) so I closed my shirt and told him ba-bas were cold. He was cool with that, but did not want to lie still. He wasn't upset at all, just chatty and wanting to be awake.

I don't get it. DH and I are (or used to be!) great sleepers. Hopefully he grows into it.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teacup* 

But she has slept through two nights this week. That is the second and third time. In her life. And she's almost 2.









:







: hooray!!!







:

send out some of that good sleep karma!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dynamohumm6* 
Can I join?








I'm at my wits end with the rest of you. My 18 month old ds is on a bad sleeping kick that's lasted about 4 months now. It coincided with his molars starting to come in, and he's only got three of them (and 6 teeth besides that, so we have a LOT of teething left). I'm delirious. He eats plenty during the day, he wants to nurse near constantly at night. I don't mind nursing him during the night - it's the marathon "I'll scream if you remove your nipple from my mouth at any time" crap, and THE GROPING that drives me absolutely NUTS. He can. Not. Nurse. unless he is clawing at my other breast. I can't take it - the groping has been going on for almost a year. Seriously. I've tried every single trick in the book (and I had lots) to get him to stop, and it's impossible. So, night nursing keeps me 100% awake, fighting off his clawing, mauling hands. I get about 3 hrs a night, dh will not do (he wants me, and only me if I'm nursing him). I'm starting to resent night nursing (nursing AT ALL, even, especially when I'm completely empty and he's just gnawing on me), and that makes me sad on top of being infinitely tired.









*sigh*

There, feels good to just bitch about it.










both of mine were gropers/clawers. drove me crazy!!! they'd go for my throat, too. i tried to keep fingernails reallllly short thru that phase, tried lots of techniques (things to hold, holding/restraining their hand,...). i would wear a t-shirt to bed and keep it pulled down to cover my throat and other breast. i'd also switch to the "up mama" sooner so that i was rolled over onto the lower breast so it was out of reach (she's on my left side; i don't switch her spot). once they were old enough to understand (?15mos) i made it a dicipline issue ("you're hurting mama. stop clawing or we're done"). i think it was because they were in pain, and it stopped when teething was done.

you've probably tried teething remedies...? homeopathics, ointments, drugs (tylenol/advil)? lots of downsides to drugs, but there's times when mama is just too strung out psycho from sleep deprivation and you do what you have to do to get thru the night.

for the all night attachment thing, have you tried the pantley pull off?


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

What's the pantley pull off?

My strategies have been:
*wearing a tight fitting nursing tank to bed...this worked for about three days, until he figured out how to break into it.








*giving him the top breast and laying on the other (this resulted in him working diligently at getting his hand between the bed and my chest...the child is nothing if not tenacious).
*hand holding (works for 30 seconds)
*1001 variations of "gentle hands"...basically, when I try to keep him from groping, he gets MAD and tries to hit me instead. It feels like a lose/lose situation, you know? I'm all for "you're hurting mama/we're done", but that results in lots of crying and yelling and tantruming, and a lot of times in the middle of the night I cave and just lay there fuming letting him claw at me instead of dealing with the shrieking. And that's my fault, I need to just be consistant about not letting him nurse if he's doing that.
How long, in your opinion, should I keep him off before letting him try again, when he's doing that?

Thanks for the response.


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

My dd is just two and STILL doesn't sleep through the night on about 95% of nights! When I get up with her, I bring her back to bed with me, but that doesn't mean she'll sleep long, or straight. Sometimes she wakes up early. Sometimes she starts playing in the middle of the night and ends up back in her crib... The list goes on and on. She's a good girl overall though, so I can't complain too much!!


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## bendmom (Sep 4, 2003)

Count me in! Ds #2 is 28 months and is constantly kicking off the covers, trying to switch sides, nursing anywhere from 3-8 times a night. Our oldest slept no problem at 1.5, and night weened himself, so this is taking some getting used to. Once dh work starts to slow down in May we will night ween and he will sleep with the boys upstairs. I am getting absolutely no sleep, and am up completely everytime he needs to nurse in the night. I just found three new deep wrinkles under my eyes and I'm only 27


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dynamohumm6* 
*#1*What's the pantley pull off?

My strategies have been:
*wearing a tight fitting nursing tank to bed...this worked for about three days, until he figured out how to break into it.








*giving him the top breast and laying on the other (this resulted in him working diligently at getting his hand between the bed and my chest...the child is nothing if not tenacious).
*hand holding (works for 30 seconds)
*1001 variations of "gentle hands"...basically, when I try to keep him from groping, he gets MAD and tries to hit me instead. It feels like a lose/lose situation, you know? I'm all for "you're hurting mama/we're done", but that results in lots of crying and yelling and tantruming, and a lot of times in the middle of the night I cave and just lay there fuming letting him claw at me instead of dealing with the shrieking. And that's my fault, I need to just be consistant about not letting him nurse if he's doing that.
*#2*How long, in your opinion, should I keep him off before letting him try again, when he's doing that?

Thanks for the response.









(my #s, bold)

#1. "pantley pull off" is described in the No Cry Sleep Solution (often referred to in posts as NCSS). when baby gets to sleep, but is still attached and not getting milk, you wait for flutter/pause nursing, put pressure under the tongue (soft part behind chin in between jaw bone area), pushing upwards. then slowwwllllly release suction and ease your nipple out, maintaining pressure so baby doesn't suddenly feel a big void where your nipple was. if baby rouses, let him reattatch and try again in a few minutes.

#2. hard to say, nighttime is a tough time to have dicipline. it's been years since dd1 (who would throw a fit if awake and not nursed...). i think she would just stop the clawing once she was deeply enough asleep (?20min) and that's when i'd detatch her. dd2 is more restless, but can seem restlessly half awake, yet when i detach her (break the suction) she often pops off and flings herself over, then lies still, asleep. she's sometimes able to be patted back to sleep, too, and if she cries about not being nursed back to sleep, it ususally only lasts a couple of minutes. not so insistent as dd1 was.

he really sounds like he's uncomfortable/in pain. have you looked into allergy issues? since it's been going on a year, did it start after you started solids? (doing the math...18mos minus a year = 6mos).

maybe try the dicipline part in the daytime first, be consistent about it then, and worry about the nighttime part later since he's probably pretty much asleep and not aware he's doing it. for daytime i'd be "done" until some other activity had taken place. eg stop nursing and get out a toy, do a chore, go for a walk, whatever sorts of things you do in between nursings anyway, probably at least 5 min and preface the next nursing with your expectations "remember, be gentle with mama." and stop again if he does it again.

it's hard to have dicipline associated with nursing, because you want it to be the warm safe haven of your relationship, not something that drives you crazy and filled with conflict.







:


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 

it's hard to have dicipline associated with nursing, because you want it to be the warm safe haven of your relationship, not something that drives you crazy and filled with conflict.







:

so true, i can't tell you how many tears i've shed over this.

Thanks for the input, I *really* appreciate it.
I haven't ruled out allergies, and yes, I am going to look into that much further.


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

My DS does not seem to have any food allergies except regular milk gives him gas. So I give him Lactose-free version. We're not nursing now. But he still doesn't sleep well.
He's active, turning one and pretty big for his age. He naps a little more than an hour twice each day in his crib. But at night, he goes down at around 8:30 and then by 11:30, he's up almost every hour. When we bring him to bed, he's struggling to go back to sleep. Putting him back to the crib only conjurs hysterics.
He has never been a good sleeper since about 9 weeks old. Back then, I was going crazy with a crying baby that can't settle down and woke up every hour. Although he has gotten a little better, I still think his sleep pattern is unhealthy.
Docs don't find anything wrong with him. But he seems so uncomfortable. Plus, we are miserably sleep-deprived. Any tips / suggestions would be much appreciated.
Please, I'm tired of parents who boast about how well their children sleep. I hear one more of those smug "my kids slept through the night since birth" or "the baby sleeps so well I have to wake to feed" comment, I'm going to blow!
This post is so comforting. If any of you have discovered helpful strategies since the origin of this thread, please pass it on. Thanks!







:


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Can we get a tribal membership card that we can flash when we do something stupid due to sleep deprivation (you know, pouring coffee into Cheerios, placing a phone call to someone, and forget who we're calling while the phone is ringing...)

My 2.5 year old screams things in the night like "I want the blue one." and I have to tell her, "here's the blue one," before she'll settle back. Argh!

-H


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

mom22girls said:


> Can we get a tribal membership card that we can flash when we do something stupid due to sleep deprivation (you know, pouring coffee into Cheerios, placing a phone call to someone, and forget who we're calling while the phone is ringing...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

I'd like to join the sleep deprived mamas who do stupid things tribe! Just this week I left my purse in the bathroom at the grocery store, then left it in the car and had to walk back 3 blocks to get it, then lost part of the car seat (the little crotch pad) . . . I wonder what this next week will bring.

I haven't had a full night's sleep since ds was born. He nurses every 2 hours until about 3 am when he latches on and won't let go and wants to change side constantly. I've got permanent nerve damage in one of my arms from nursing with my arm up for 3 years.

AND I've got a groper, too. Doesn't matter that I've said thousands of times "stop digging in mama's shirt." Only difference is that now he repeats it back to me after he's done it.


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## dynamohumm6 (Feb 22, 2005)

Ooooh, a membership card would be wonderful. I've:

-stuck my parking pass in my tape deck in my car, instead of in the compartment above it. I even forced it when met with resisitance.
-found cereal in the fridge and milk in the pantry more than I care to admit.
-forgotten about two dozen english muffins in the toaster after they've popped up
-forgotten to take off my underwear before getting in the shower

all of these things I've blamed on not sleeping.









Anyway...I've decided to cut out dairy and see what happens. DH is skeptical, but I'm willing to try anything. A lot of what I was reading in the dairy allergy behaviour thread in Allergies describes DS quite well. Of course, this week is explained because the poor babe has a cold and can't really breathe and is coughing quite a bit. So he gets a free pass this week.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

I don't want to jinx myself but dd1 seems to be on the right road of sleeping thru the night. She just turned 4, so i wonder if that's her magic number.

I'm keeping this magic dust as my other dds don't sleep thru either.









We have gone the dairy-free route before and it didn't help my dds. Hopefully it can help other family with sleep problems.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Just bumping this









Anyone else find that too much stimulation makes nights particularly bad? DS actually slept all night about 5 nights in a row, then it was Christmas and it totally messed up his sleep for the next 3 nights in a row!


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## Ex Libris (Jan 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 
Just bumping this









Anyone else find that too much stimulation makes nights particularly bad?

Yes, for sure!! Christmas was bad for us, too.

But I'm happy to report that ds slept through the night for the first time last night. Woo Hoo!







:


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## Feb2003 (Jul 20, 2003)

not much time...

ds1 is almost 4 and started sleeping better after 3. at 2 he started choosing the mattress on the floor in his room (choice was a fun part of bedtime and we never commented)...well, he'd go back and forth but doesn't co-sleep well since ds2 arrived (ds2 was noisy as a baby and ds1 is noisy when he does wake up).

anyway, ds1 is in own room, but needs dh in there most nights.

ds2 (almost 18 mo) has started sleeping better since I have refused to nurse every 45 min all night (he's pretty mellow and just fussed a little while I sang, patted, etc. until he went back to sleep...not as insistent as ds1 was) he takes a pacifier for sleep and the car and so he has something to suck on to keep him calm...so he's nursing every 3-4 hours instead of every 45 min right now

ds1 just had major surgery and it's completely messed up his sleep and he's high needs/spirited so once he's up...watch out!! he lets everyone know it and has very specific requests, etc. we're hoping his brain works out the problem soon b/c we're falling apart and he has huge red circles under his eyes most days

ANYWAY, I posted mainly to make some suggestions for the 3 yo's who are waking...mine really does need food and drink at night (dentist doesn't agree, but we've had no problems) we keep water in a straw-top cup right next to his bed and sometimes crackers and raisins. He would prefer milk, of course, but most nights were not up for a trip to the kitchen. On nights that he's in there by himself (right across the hall) and sleeps well, we will go in to find the snack gone and the water almost empty. His little face is often hanging off the side of the mattress (it's on the floor) like he fell asleep again eating.

He was a HORRIBLE sleeper and #2 came before he outgrew it...I haven't slept well in about 4 years...it's amazing that we're not more sick since ds1 really doesn't get (need?) much sleep about 8-9 hours...still up at the crack of dawn (usually earlier)...he just needed to outgrow the worst and now sleeps like a dream (does better with someone with him)

hope some of this makes sense!!


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## Tattiana (Feb 17, 2006)

My 18 month old DD has always been a TERRIBLE sleeper. I have explored allergies since she started out colicky and we have had several other issues like CONSTANT runny noses and terrible, fitful sleeping, but so far we haven't been able to pinpoint anything.







Even allergy meds didn't work so we stopped them. It has been frustrating. Her diet is more like many 6-8 month olds, not an 18 month old because she has reacted to common things like carrots and peas that are in so many things and I am afraid to give her too much of any highly allergic foods like wheat and I refuse to give her dairy (even though I eat some, I noticed that cutting that out of my diet did nothing to help her







: ).

I REALLY related to this

Quote:

I'm delirious. He eats plenty during the day, he wants to nurse near constantly at night. I don't mind nursing him during the night - it's the marathon "I'll scream if you remove your nipple from my mouth at any time" crap, and THE GROPING that drives me absolutely NUTS. He can. Not. Nurse. unless he is clawing at my other breast. I can't take it - the groping has been going on for almost a year. Seriously. I've tried every single trick in the book (and I had lots) to get him to stop, and it's impossible. So, night nursing keeps me 100% awake, fighting off his clawing, mauling hands.
I have tried the "Pantley pull-off" but when she is like this, it just doesn't work. I get so frustrated some nights. My back and hips are sore a lot because of trying to stay in some position all night to have her stay latched on. I have scratches on me from the constant clawing and pinching and groping. I am at my wits end with this. This morning, I woke to a nasty pinch to my nip! OUCH!







:

I'm always looking for an answer. This is my 4th child and I have never seen anything like this. DH is ADAMANT that there will be no more.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

i've been trying a new trick with dd2 (23mos), my current clawer/groper. she's recently become enamored of dolls, so i make sure she cuddles one under her arm when we start nursing. when she starts to go at me i tell her to "tickle millicent, not mama," and she mostly complies.


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## hrtoe (Apr 27, 2006)

I am also a member of this tribe. My now 13 month old has been a terrible sleeper since 3 weeks old. He wouldn't nap unless he was ON me when he was that little. Then I started to be able to nurse him to sleep on my bed and leave him, until he woke 45 mins later when I would have to run in and nurse him back to sleep. When he started getting mobile, I put a mattress on the side of our bed with a pack n play blocking the end; make-shift crib on the floor so to speak. He takes naps there and if I can get him to sleep at night before we are ready for bed, he sleeps there for a little while. Same routine though generally - nurse to sleep and go back in 45 mins later. Sometimes I am there for an hour.









He went to one nap a day at 9 months and wakes numerous times a night.







I am afraid to get pregnant again and have to figure out how to sleep then...we are going to wait until this summer, so hopefully he will be a little better. I am planning on weaning him somewhere around then.

He's an incredibly active guy during the day too. He doesn't have any food allergies, but he does get gas sometimes at night. He is also worse when teething (and that seems to be a constant). Poor little guy!


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## Rox5266 (Nov 26, 2004)

Can it be true? My crappy sleeper has only woke me twice the past two nights - TWO DAYS IN A ROW. I won't count my chickens before they'e hatched though, I don't think I'll abdicate myself from this tribe until my ds goes a MONTH without waking my multiple times a night......







:


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## Tattiana (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:

but he does get gas sometimes at night. He is also worse when teething (and that seems to be a constant).
dd still gets gassy at night, sometimes, too. It is frustrating at her age. And I hear you about the teething! My first 3 babies didn't seem to have much issue with teething, but dd will seem to take FOREVER to teethe and then just when you think that things are getting better, it seems to start bugging her again!







:


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## hrtoe (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tattiana* 
dd still gets gassy at night, sometimes, too. It is frustrating at her age. And I hear you about the teething! My first 3 babies didn't seem to have much issue with teething, but dd will seem to take FOREVER to teethe and then just when you think that things are getting better, it seems to start bugging her again!







:

Yeah - he's only just getting his 5th tooth poking through now, and it's been coming (with 3 others that still haven't poked through yet) for about 3 months now (and that is just the part I know about - where it's been just below the skin). Poor guy! I really wish I could do something to help with that.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

any new members out there?

are the rest of us too tired to type?

my crappy sleeper#1 (5yo) is sleeping well lately, hardly any nightmares, and even manages to get up and go to the bathroom with verbal coaching "mama's right here, i'll tuck you in when you get back," instead of physical presence lately. i'm very grateful because it's been too cold to get up!

and pseudo crappy sleeper#2 has popped a molar (before her 2nd b'day, not exactly "2 yr molars" for this early teether), and gone back to giving me 4-6 hours uninterrupted, so long as i go to sleep with her at 8ish.









how's everybody doing?


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
are the rest of us too tired to type?









:







:







:







:


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

My son (the original crappy sleeper as I started this tribe!) slept for crap the past 3 nights, but last night he gave us 9 hours. The only problem is that I'm going on 38 weeks pregnant and all I want to do is go to bed and sleep. I feel like I could sleep all day and all night and still not feel rested. And DS is just SO active and energetic all day, it makes me tired thinking about it... just not sure what we're going to do once the baby is born. I'm still holding out hope that baby will sleep better than he does...


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## BrittBBT (Dec 20, 2006)

OMG I totally understand. I just posted about getting my 8mo into a crib cuz we're TTC and he's NOT a good sleeper. He's slept thru the night once. I still nurse him about 5 times a night. Plus he tosses and turns and fusses in his sleep....


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

my dd gave us a couple good nights last week and it was amazing! The past two nights in a row though, she's been waking up at 3 am wanting to play!







: DH and I have just been ignoring her but god I hope this passes soon!


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## hrtoe (Apr 27, 2006)

My son is still having issues. He was doing better, but then teething started again in a MAJOR way. He is 14 months old, and 5 new teeth are now poking through (including a molar) and 3 more molars are just under the swollen surface. And his eye teeth are now moving, poor guy! He gets more congested and then doesn't want to nurse (or wants to but it hurts







) so he has a really hard time. I feel so bad for him.







Hopefully it will pass soon though and things will get better for a bit.


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## Dimples_2005 (Jun 14, 2006)

My boy still isn't sleeping well. (I first posted nearly 5 months ago!) I have all the books, I've tried all the tricks . . . . I've resigned myself to the fact that he'll sleep when he's ready whether I help him or not. We can't even consider having another child until then.







:

I'm tired.


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## Al Dente (Jan 8, 2004)

Count me in. Ds has been a terrible sleeper since the beginning. We moved him to his own bed around Christmastime, and he did well initially but now has started waking up 4-6x a night again. When I first nightweaned him (27 mos) he did great until we moved to another state-then he was okay as long as he was sleeping next to me-then I went to WOH and he started waking up more, then the toddler bed has done the trick and I am back to my terrible sleeper.







I really thought it would be better by now!


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## hrtoe (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dimples_2005* 
My boy still isn't sleeping well. (I first posted nearly 5 months ago!) I have all the books, I've tried all the tricks . . . . I've resigned myself to the fact that he'll sleep when he's ready whether I help him or not. We can't even consider having another child until then.







:

I'm tired.

This is EXACTLY us, except my son is 2 months younger. I can't even handle the thought of the next one yet because of the way he doesn't sleep.







I am sorry you are in the same boat as I am.


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## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
my dd gave us a couple good nights last week and it was amazing! The past two nights in a row though, she's been waking up at 3 am wanting to play!







: DH and I have just been ignoring her but god I hope this passes soon!

DS used to do that... it went on every night for months and months and months!!! NOTHING helped us except the passage of time. He still wakes up but fortunately he will go back to "sleep" (if you can count kicking the bed, kicking us, yelling and flailing sleep...). I have a friend whose daughter would be awake from 1-5 EVERY SINGLE NIGHT... then she would sleep in LATE, then would take a REALLY long nap late in the afternoon and wash, rinse and repeat.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *timneh_mom* 
DS used to do that... it went on every night for months and months and months!!! NOTHING helped us except the passage of time.

OMG don't tell me that! Months! I don't think I could handle it!


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Checking in! I wil spare you the details but he's 2.5 and we are still putting him down in our bed and staying there until he falls alseep. Then we sneak away and pray for an hour or two before his 1st wake up.

Luckily he;s become easier to get down but sleeping with this child is a nightmare and I was SO totally FOR cosleeping







My husband is still in love with the whole thing but I am sleeping on the futon in the playroom most nghts while DH and the babe get my $2500 Select Comfort bed I begged for. Pfffft.

We dragged his toddler bed in ourr room tonight. he screamed about it but maybe he'll start getting used to it.


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