# Waited an hour for her to get in carseat - still said NO!



## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

I'm totally new to GD (and discipline in general as my first is 20 mos)....so this is my first post here and I'm hoping you all can help me brainstorm a bit!

My DD is generally a very easy-going, cooperative kiddo but when she digs her heels in....she really digs her heels in (very much like her mama







).

So yesterday we went to LLL and then went out to lunch. She was a bit restless in the restaurant but I took breaks, walked around with her, read books etc. and we got through the meal.

We left and she wanted to walk. I told her that the rule is that she can walk on the sidewalk but not across the busy street (I truly do not feel it was safe for her to walk across the street where we were). She was a little upset but let me pick her up and carry her across the street to the car.

When I went to put her in her carseat she arched her back and said NO carseat...all done carseat....no seatbelt etc.

My first instinct was to muscle her into the carseat (as I said...this is all new...I'm still learning) but I remembered something I read here (on the what is non-negotiable thread) about a mama who waited until her DC was ready to get in the carseat. I was like







let's see what will happen.

So...

I told her that we need to get home to let our dog out and pack to go to nana's house so could she please tell me when she was ready to get in her carseat.

She wanted to come up front and play with all the buttons on the dash, which I let her do [I'm now questioning this decision]. She was pleasant and having a great time sitting on my lap (as best we could...7 mos pregnant in my corolla







). She then asked to nurse, which we did.

Every once in a while I would ask her....are you ready to get in your carseat now? NOOOOOO.

I picked up a book and started reading and decided...well I won't force her to get in her seat but I'm also not going to sit her and entertain her since I really wanted to get going. I told her she needed to get in the backseat now and in the carseat when she was ready.

We were going on about 30 min at this point. She stood back there looking out the window...talking to people walking by...playing with the buckles on her carseat.

Again....Lily we need to get home to see Gilligan. Are you ready to get in your carseat now? NOOOOOO.

I was starting to feel my patience sliding and questioning this whole process.







:

A couple of times she stood in her carseat or sat into it the wrong way and I was hopeful that she was going to get in on her own but as soon I said something about the seatbelt she would jump out and say NO!

She was acting very tired and kept wanting to come back up on my lap. I told her when we got home we could snuggle and have monnies (nurse) but that we really needed to get home to let Gilligan out so he didn't do pee-pee in the house.

This continued for a bit longer.

Finally after an hour, I reached the end of my patience.

I told her that it was time to get in her carseat and that she could climb in or mama would help her. She screamed NO!

So....I did what I didn't want to do an hour before....I physically forced her into the carseat while she screamed no carseat....no seatbelt!!

She then asked for her paci and was sound asleep within 5 minutes.

So now I'm trying to process this very frustrating experience and see how I could have handled it differently/better next time.

I talked to my DH about it and he said he does not think I should negotiate with her on the carseat...that he tells her it's time to get in the carseat and that's it. She will fuss for a minute or two and then it's over and they move on.

And I will say that later in the day when we were grocery shopping with my mom she did the "no carseat...no seatbelt" thing and I took a different approach....I used a technique I read in Harvery Karp's book that she seems to respond to very well...

Lily says no, NO, NO. No carseat mama!! But mama says....we have to get in the carseat Lily so we can get home safely.

She resisted a bit (much less than earlier in the day), we buckled and were on our way.









Appreciate any ideas/suggestions/feedback....

Thanks!

~Erin


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## Avonlea (Jan 21, 2002)

Homestly, I would have buckled her in and told her it was time to go. I can be flexible about alot of things, but when it comes to something like a car seat issue, I have to be firm. To me, the carseat is not something they have a choice about. You had a nice day togethor, and et she refused to sit in her carseat when it was time to go. In a few months when you have a new baby to deal with and she again tries to refuse to sit in the carseat, what will you do then ? You could stay home and never leave or do anything outside your walking area, but thats going to get old very quickly.

I think that being gentle and aware is a great 1st step. But I also think this is the time when you say "daughter, we must leave X .It is time we go home. Momma has to sit in her seat and drive the car, and you have to sit in your seat and be safe. I am sorry if you are sad/angry about this, but that is the way it has to be for us to be safe and get to our next place. "

I also think if you save certain treats ( books, toys, cheerios, etc.) and ONLY allow her to have it in the car, or a cd of music she enjoys, or some sunglsses or what ever item she enjoys, for only when she is buckled, that may help.
Then offer her a choice of "when you sit down in your seat and are buckled, would you like X or Y ?" Don't make the seat a thing she can question..but allow her to have a choice regarding something else in the car for your trip.

And there may come a time when you do have to Make her sit down and be buckled in, even if she doesn't enjoy it . Life is like that, and you cannot always allow her that time to walk and play and wait for her to be ready. I think this is just an issue where my being the parent and needing her to be safely in her seat so we could leave would trump her toddler desire to not sit down.

There are so many other things we face as parents where we can take our time over..but I wouldn't be willing to do so over this one.

I wouldn't be angry about it, just matter of fact."we have to leave here and go on to where ever, and you must sit in your seat. " etc.

Good luck.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Hi Erin,

I feel like I have been following your wonderful little family since your days on the TTC board.









Anyway, here are some thought and some advice. I will tell you first though that I am not non-coercive but I do try to be GD.

First, I think you have to recognize what is happening developmentally. At 20 months she is just coming the realization that she really does control her own body.

I think we, as parents, need to respect this by not getting mad at them when they say "no" to things and it sure sounds like you are completely respecting her there.

At the same time a 20 month old can not really think through the consequences of not getting in the car seat. This is what they need us for and depend on us for.

Like the PP said I think that getting in the carseat to go home has got to be non-negotiable.

I think what you did with the line for AK was really nice and good. Saying I know you don't want to do this, but this is one of the things that you must do is a very gently way of acknowleding her feelings while telling her that this must happen because she must be kept safe.

I think the only thing I would have done differently is that I would not have implied to her initially that I would wait as long as she wanted to get in her car seat.

She might never have felt "ready" to get in the car seat. And that is a legitimate feeling on her part. But that is really not the choice that she can make. And maybe that is why she was so upset when you eventually put her in the car seat.

So I would have done what you did with the street crossing. Give her some legitimate amount of time, let her know how much longer she has, and then just put her in at the end.

So in as nice a voice as possible I'd say. You have to get in you car seat to be safe. You can get in yourself now or we can play for a few minutes first. Then I'd tell her one more minute sweetie then you need to get in by yourself or I can help you". At the end, if she still did not want to get in I'd say exactly what you said about her not wanting to do so, but how it is necessary to keep her safe.

And like the PP said, I'd try to give her some choice along the way!


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## royaloakmi (Mar 2, 2005)

Okay, I'm not generally non coercive (this is a phrase that keeps popping up more and more here and I'm still figuring out what people mean by it.) I'm not even sure you could be totally that way with twins . . . However, I think you can practice GD and still sometimes the kids have to do stuff they don't want to do - like get in a carseat.

She was probably really wired from all of the activity that morning and I doubt that any amount of time would have gained her cooperation in this matter.

Mine are 27 months, a little older, but what I try to do in situations like this (before I have to force something) is make a game out of it, play pretend, or give choices. For example: "You can climb in yourself, or mama will help." Or, Do you want to do your buckles or do you want teddy bear to do them?" All of these choices lead to the same end: getting in the carseat.

Or make a game out of it: "do you want to ride home in an airplane or Santa's sleigh" (then they choose and you pretend you're in either for the ride home - while using a Santa or pilot's "voice"







).

Some days, none of that works, so I buckle them in anyway and we're on our way. The next minute, they've spotted something out the window and we're over it.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I think you did great. You were compassionate and kind and gentle and patient.

It sounds like waiting an hour didn't intuitively seem right to you.

With ds these were the exact sorts of moments in which a "have to" and the protesting was a surface exchange, which did not change the underlying spirit of equality and trust. He picked me as his mama for a reason~and I knew intuitively at moments as you described, that all he wanted from me was kindness,. I knew he did not really mean for me to sit in the car for three hours. I can't say how I knew this, I just knew it very clearly and deeply. I knew that his protesting was his bit of self indulgence in the safety of trust and kindness between us. I knew that buckling him in did not make him trust me less or feel disrespected. Doing what was necessary for safety and balance in a spirit of kindness just did not come between us.

I hope that helps you.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Hmmm. That one is tough. On the one hand, dc's desires/thoughts/feelings are legitimate, and deserve to be respected. But, YOUR desires/thoughts/feelings are legitimate too.
I haven't quite figured out where I stand on stuff like this. I tend to NOT make ds get in the carseat (he's 18 mos). If he doesn't want to get in right away, he'll play in front of the steering wheel, he'll stand and look out windows (we have a minivan), whatever sounds fun. Usually, it doesn't take long, and he'll either get in his seat, or he's ok with me putting him there.
I'll tell him we have to go home, and when we get there, we'll see daddy. Or be able to play with his toys. Or see the dogs. Whatever.
I also tend to say stuff like "yes, its fun to sit in the front seat. You have to be in your seat before we can go." (of course, sometimes if I'm frustrated, it doesn't go like that. lol)
I think there is definitely something to letting kids know what YOUR limit is. Or what YOU want, in no uncertain terms. I sometimes say "I want to go soon, and you need to be in your seat." I have no problem telling him what *I* want, though I do have a problem with "making" him do such and such.
There have been a few times its taken a while to get him in his seat. Like the time we were in a not so great neighborhood, it was dark, and I was getting pretty uncomfortable in the parking lot. We did what he wanted, for about 15-20 min, then I did just put him in his seat. He was unhappy for less than a minute. I still don't feel good about it, but I didn't know what else to do at the time. He was tired and was very unlikely to have chosen to get in the seat on his own.

I'm thinking a lot recently about kids being overwhelmed by too much responsibilty (in the form of choices). I really feel that it happens, and that kids are "designed" to have parents make many decisions for them. That's what they naturally expect. When it seems that THEY have too much responsiblity/choices, it's uncomfortable for them and they push to make their parents take control (I hate to use the word control. It doesn't really convey what I'm trying to say- because I'm not advocating the use of force at all, or even coersion, really).
But, I also really think that kids should have a say about what happens to their bodies- not just a say in it, but pretty much the final say.
I don't really know how to reconcile the two feelings I have on it- kids don't want (aren't designed to have) too much responsibility for their lives. But they also deserve to have their thoughts and feelings respected.

Some articles for you: http://www.scottnoelle.com/parenting/unconditional.htm
near the bottom is how the author dealt with the carseat issue.

These two are articles talking about children making decisions vs. parents making decisions for them. They are both written from a non-coercive perspective, too.
http://www.scottnoelle.com/parenting/child-centered.htm
http://www.continuum-concept.org/rea...InControl.html


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## julesmom (Apr 18, 2005)

Most of the times when ds does not want to get into the carseat, I have done exactly what you have described. I'll say "OK, do you want to drive for a bit before we head home/wherever". He sits in the front for awhile. We have been known to nurse first too. Then I'll give him MANY "warnings" that we're getting ready to go. "A few more minutes and I'd like to get in our seats and we'll go"..."Let's push the button 5 more times before we get going." etc. (His favorite music is also something he looks forward to, so I mention we can listen to whatever once we get moving.) I'll finally ask if he's ready and he usually says yes.

Honestly, this usually works for us. BUT, (2 "buts"







): I don't remember if it worked so well the first couple times, when hanging out with mom in the front seat was a novelty.

AND

It sometimes doesn't worked when ds is over-tired. And this is something I so struggle with too. When ds is really tired and it's time to get into the carseat it can become a very difficult few minutes. I struggle because if we start to do something, he'll just get more tired and more emotionally fragile. I end up just putting him in the seat as gently as possible and he is often fast asleep before I get the buckles done. I hate this kind of situation and also am open for suggestions. It's a tough call for me.

Hope this helps in some way...sound like you did great


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

what i would do (and have done) is acknowledge the child's feeling "you are really mad about having to go into your carseat and wish you didn't have to". but with 4 kids and having no choice but to get kids to their activities on time (dh works out of town alot), i've had to get my little ones in their carseats despite their unwillingness









your dd is lucky to have a mom who is so willing to listen to her.


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## alamama (Mar 21, 2005)

I do find that the more impatient/tense I feel about ds getting into the carseat, the longer it takes him (or maybe it just seems that way







).

Quote:

It sometimes doesn't worked when ds is over-tired.
Yes, yes, yes! This is my struggle as well.

Usually ds goes into the carseat willingly, or he plays for a few minutes and then is ready. But a few times, we have been out and by the time we are heading home, ds is super tired - in the cases I'm thinking of, really overtired and overstimulated. He is wired, and cannot fall asleep in the carseat as he often does.

If he begins to get upset and we stop, he is initially happy to be out of the car seat but then still frustrated because he so very tired. He will not nurse. He cannot fall asleep. What he wants (I intuit, since he is preverbal) is to be laying down in a bed with mama so he can nurse and fall asleep. The more times I stop the car, the longer I stay out of the car, the longer it will be until this underlying need is met.

Sometimes we have stopped until he is ready to get back in the car seat again, but then a short way into the drive he gets upset again. And actually, I think the stopping/starting is frustrating to him because it is like a tease. What he wants is to be out of the car altogether, not just for a short time. We have also tried to keep going, talking, playing, singing with him, offering as many distractions, etc. to make the drive bearable until we get home, when he can at last go to sleep.

Obviously, I try to avoid these situations whenever possible because it feels
impossible to find a mutually agreeable solution. Usually when I choose noncoercion, it feels like the right choice in my gut, for all the reasons that are frequently named. In this case, however, my intuition or gut tells me - this baby desperately needs to be home so he can sleep. Get him home as quickly as you can so this underlying need can be met.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Wow mamas!!!







Thank you for kind words and support and great ideas!!!

Time is short so I can't quote people but....

BIG yes to the mama who said that sitting in the car for an hour didn't intuitively feel right to me. It felt like I was "respecting her needs" at the expense of my own.









And yes to people who pointed out that sometimes too many open-ended options are just too much to process.

As I said, I am totally new to all the options out there for guiding children but definitely want to so in a way that is respectful and gentle.

I think I was thinking that being respectful meant I had to wait for her to do it of her own free will....no matter how long that took. But what I'm hearing from you all is that many of you feel that setting boundaries can be done in a respectful/gentle way. I like the ideas for playful parenting...you can do it or teddy bear can do it and imaginary ways to get home etc. (I realize this doesn't fit the bill of "non-coercive" though I've not really read anything about that belief system to know if that's even a goal I have.)

And thank you to people who pointed out that my situation is going to be MUCH different in a couple of months when #2 arrives!!!









What a nice welcome to this forum....I look forward to future discussions and learning more from everyone here!!


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts which may or may not help.

First, when something becomes a power struggle that is ongoing - car seat for you, diaper changes for me - if you give them the option, they will opt not to, since you're the one making them do it. At least, that's my theory. It's kind of like - how would getting in the car seat voluntarily allow her to assert control? It wouldn't, cuz that's what you want her to do! LOL. At least, that's how I think it works, that is what I would be thinking in this situation (i.e. - you can't give someone the power to make a decision if it's not ok for them to say no to it).

Another thought I have - saying that she could get in the car seat when she was ready was very openended. She's thinking "OK, I never want to get into the car seat. Hooray!"

Uh-oh... toddler is home with dad! Gotta go... don't know if that helps or not. Good luck with your car seat struggles!


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

What works best for us in that case is having some kind of toy, snack, thingy that she likes to play with and distract her with that. I think both Maya and heartmama had wonderful posts, and is basically what I would do, too. Validating is important.

And I can't say enough about the value of countdowns to any transitions at that age. We started at 18 months and it worked beautifully for about a year. (Then she moved on to a different style, it's not that they stopped working, lol.)


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

My dd3 has recently started bucking against me putting her in her car seat. She wants to climb in herself. That is usually fine of course - except when we are really tight on time and I just can't wait the three minutes. Sometimes we are just LATE and the longer we take, the longer everyone else (meeting a carpool, have a dentist appointment, whatever) has to wait. I feel ok with letting her climb in on her own, which is painfully slow but she does do it in a reasonable amount of time, usually. On the times when I just can't (or won't) choose to wait, I put her in myself, explaining that we have to hurry now and she can climb in herself on the way home.

We have decent luck with "do you want Mommy to put you in or Daddy to put you in?" for quick car seating.

To me, unless you are just out for a Sunday drive type of thing, getting in the car seat in a reasonable (for me - under five minutes definitely) time is just non-negotiable. They have to ride in the car seat. The choice is I put her in or she climbs in herself - in a reasonable amount of time. Not getting in isn't an option on most days - we have places we are going. Not taking her sister to piano isn't an option just because the youngest one isn't in the mood for the carseat. Life is what it is. That is the price you pay for the gift of having siblings.

I think in the OP's situation, there was too much choice and fun (playing in the front seat with the buttons - what kid wouldn't love that?, nursing, etc.) - of course the child chooses that over getting in the car seat. I wouldn't really give those options. Trying to make it fun, with a stuffed animal buckling up first or whatever, is fine but if it doesn't work then we go to me putting her in. Once the new baby comes, you won't have the luxury of waiting an hour (which would have put me right over the top - I have to hand it to you that you lasted that long!)

I agree with pp that it felt wrong to you because in trying to be respectful of her, you were disrespected. Your time and stress level count too!

What helps at my house is telling her so she knows you understand - "I know you don't want to get in the car seat right now but we have to get sister from school so I'm going to help you. You can climb in on your own on our way home." She still might fuss but it ends quickly.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
We have decent luck with "do you want Mommy to put you in or Daddy to put you in?" for quick car seating....

What helps at my house is telling her so she knows you understand - "I know you don't want to get in the car seat right now but we have to get sister from school so I'm going to help you. You can climb in on your own on our way home." She still might fuss but it ends quickly.


We have been having this problem with DD for ... oh jeez. Quite a while now. I don't mean to hijack but I'm hoping folks have some more recommendations.

I'm noticing that a lost of posters do what we do: place DD in the car seat despite protests. The difference is, DD does fuss and it never ends quickly despite any choices that might be offered, snacks, drinks, etc. We explain, validate, sympathize. And we do go back and forth to school in the car EVERY SINGLE DAY AT LEAST TWICE A DAY so you'd think she'd be used to riding in her carseat. Needless to say it's very VERY frustrating and distracting to have her freaking out in the backseat. As far as I can tell there is no particular reason for the hysteria (hungry, tired, etc). This doesn't happen every day, but probably 3 out of 5 days. She can't answer "why" yet and she can't seem to provide any additional information about her unhappiness despite being a very very verbal 2 year old so it's hard to get to the root of the issue. She does tell me "I'M STUCK!" I think she is just referring to being in the seat, though we do have to make the straps snug or she plays car seat Houdini and frees the top half of her body from the belt.

I should add that my DD often has very exaggerated reactions to things. We have found that the best way to minimize extended dramas is to be matter of fact with her, quickly offer sympathy, then move on. She reacts well to this and turns quickly from raging tears to happy and laughing again once she realizes she has lost her audience. We've been looking for a simliar approach in the car but being stuck with a screaming toddler in a small space doesn't offer much opportunity to do that.

So I've been following this thread with interest. It seems that most of the previous posters agree as I do that car seats are a fact of life so I guess I'm wondering what to do about the subsequent hysteria. We do need to get back and forth to school and unfortunately public transportation is not available here. If anyone has suggestions or additional comments I'd really appreciate it.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quagmire (funny screen name, btw), I've had a lot of good success about talking about things before and after the fact with my DS.

He's 26 months and I've recently started to do this. Like if something's coming up and we're not going to be doing what he wants (i.e. "We're going to stop by mamoo and papa's, but we're not going to be able to visit. I have to run in and get a piece of paper, then run back out so we can go do X") I can tell him what's going to happen, and he'll usually agree. When he agrees ahead of time like that, if the situation unfolds like I told him to expect it, then he always is OK with it.

If something horrible happens that causes a freak-out, I can generally talk to him about it afterwards when he's calmed down and we're sitting together quietly and playing or whatever. A lot of times he can give me more information about why he was frustrated or sad or whatever.

This is a pretty recent development for us (as far as I know, anyway... maybe he was capable of it earlier and I just didn't know how to talk to him... that's entirely possible, LOL) and I think it's wonderful.

So, depending on how old your DD is, and whether you can have these sorts of conversations yet (about things in the past or things in the future), maybe you could try talking to her ahead of time (OK, sweetie. We're done shopping, so we're ready to go home. When we get to the car you'll need to ride in your car seat until we get home to keep you safe. etc.) about what's going to happen, or about why she needs to stay in the car seat.

I'm finding out that as DS gets older and more mature, telling him why he has to do something right when he's really upset about it doesn't help him much, I have to talk to him about it when he's calm. More like what you would do with an adult.

Don't know if this helps any, but I thought I would throw it out there.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

:have not read other posts so apologize if I'm repeating anything:

I think you have a great amount of patience! Which is good







However, carseats are non-negotiable and your sweet babe needs to understand that eventually.

Personally, I would have waited for a good while, but not an hour. And if it was urgent to leave right then, I may have resorted to physically forcing her into the carseat--all the while talking calmly and soothingly to her, trying to explain why things can't be her way at the moment. Once you get where you need to be, you'll have to employ a lot of love and attention to calm the storm, so to speak









My dd was VERY independant at that age, and more than once I had to force her into her carseat buckles kicking and screaming. I remember feeling afraid that passers-by would think she was being kidnapped, she was *that* intense! FWIW it gets better as they get older :grin

I think it's great to give kids autonomy and choice as much as possible, and stay away from "arbitrary no's". As they get older, they'll be better able to deal when something non-negotiable does come up (like buckling up to get somewhere on time), since having their needs/wants overrun is not an everyday occurrance. JMTC


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Just wanted to clarify (before you all nominate me for sainthood







) that waiting an hour was a total one-time experiment. I've never done that before....and never will again. I happened to have nothing to do for the rest of the day and I just really wanted to see what would happen if I tried letting her do it on her time.

Honestly....If I hadn't lost my patience after an hour and forced her into the carseat.....I think we would have been camped out there all afternoon and into the evening.









The thing that got me even considering this approach is that on another thread (what all is non-negotiable?), which happened to be one of the first threads I read in GD....there seemed to be several posters who believe that everything -- aside from prevnting imminent danger -- IS negotiable.

So being new to the forum....I generalized that GD meant everything is negotiable, nothing is ever forced.

I wasn't sure that I could buy into that but thought....huh....what the heck....let me give this a try and see what happens.

Obviously, you all know I didn't feel good about how things transpired.









So I was pleasantly surprised when I posted this thread and so many of you gentle loving mamas said that the carseat is non-negotiable and that you validate your DCs feelings while insisting on compliance.

I have been sticking with the approach I took later in the day (which I read in Happiest Toddler on the Block) and validating her feelings in her language (Lily says NO NO NO....NO CARSEAT but mama says yes....yes...yes....I need you to be safe) and the struggles have decreased (not disappeared but definitely less).

DD needs a diaper change.....more when I can!


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## CelticMomma (Feb 3, 2006)

It's so hard to figure out how to handle things sometimes. I totally agree that some of the information out there is confusing. With one child, you have a few more luxuries and can allow some of these choices to come to their own conclusion, but once you introduce another child, which is soon for you, everything will change. If you'd had a baby with you, would you have been able to sit in the car for an hour? Probably not.

Sometimes we have to make the choices that are right for the family, and the individual will have to be accomodating. At 20 months old it's hard to explain being accomodating, so you sometimes have to just make it happen. It's hard, but it's part of the process.

Let me just add a different insight to the situation. When my DD was about your DD's age, we went through a similar situation. I had my MIL with me, however, so being extra patient was a little tough. Anyway, after about 30 minutes of struggle, I finally got DD strapped into her carseat, screaming her little lungs out. She fell asleep within about 10 minutes and when I got her home, her diaper was completely soaked. Similar situations happened over the next 2-3 days before it finally clicked, she was struggling because she had to PEE and didn't know how to communicate that.

Long story short, we had a naked weekend and DD was completely diaper free in 2 days.

Sometimes there's something going on that we just don't see. Is there something your DD might be trying to tell you?


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
He's 26 months and I've recently started to do this. Like if something's coming up and we're not going to be doing what he wants (i.e. "We're going to stop by mamoo and papa's, but we're not going to be able to visit. I have to run in and get a piece of paper, then run back out so we can go do X") I can tell him what's going to happen, and he'll usually agree. When he agrees ahead of time like that, if the situation unfolds like I told him to expect it, then he always is OK with it.

Kay, thanks for your response. This is a good idea... and it does sometimes work for DD (just 24 mos) with other things. I guess I figured since she knows the drill that explaining each time wasn't necessary, but perhaps just reminding her that we need to ride in the car to get home would be enough to calm her down a bit.

It's worth a shot! Still working on getting to that "zen place"


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama*
So being new to the forum....I generalized that GD meant everything is negotiable, nothing is ever forced.

It does mean that to some. BUT it doesn't mean that you have to let dc take the lead, does that make sense? "Mutually agreeable solutions" is a big thing for many here that practice consensual living. And obviously, sitting in the car for an hour wasn't agreeable to you, so it wasn't a mutually agreeable solution. Living consensually means that everyone gets their needs/desires met. (Unless one willingly chooses to compromise). And it never involves force.
I think that means trying to find a way that dd will choose to get into the carseat. Games. Explaining. All that stuff. Getting to the bottom of the reason. Getting creative, kwim?
Though I'm sure that even the best among us have "made" a child do something. Or at least really wanted to







It's just something that many try very hard to NOT do.
Carseats in a moving car, really are non-negotiable. But HOW and when you get into the carseat can be negotiable. Even going in the car in the first place can be negotiable. In those ways, getting into the car seat really is negotiable.
Good luck on your gd journey







It does get easier to understand and implement on a daily basis. lol


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Becky ~ Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated.

So....a little more experimentation here...

Today we went grocery shopping and DD was adamant that she wanted to walk. Mondays are generally quiet in the store so I agreed.

What a dissaster!!! She was ALL OVER the store!!










I knew pretty much immediately that I had made a mistake. She was seriously at risk of being hurt. People aren't used to toddlers racing around the produce stands and she came close to being hit by a cart a couple of times.







I felt like everyone was glaring at me.

But once she had a taste of freedom there was no getting her back in the cart. So...I said she could walk if she held onto the cart with one hand. This worked for a while and I raced around the store getting the things I needed (of course forgetting tons of things).

When we got to the checkout I told her she needed to get back in the cart to help me unload groceries and push the green button (ok button on the CC machine)...which she loves doing so she agreed.

We then went next door to the drug store to get a card for DH for V-day. As soon as we got in the store she started saying "Lily walk. Lily walk. Lily walk."

I just needed to grab a card and some candy and tried to convince her to stay in the cart but she was insistent that she wanted her hat and coat off and that she wanted to walk.

I agreed (although this time I *knew* before I agreed that I was making a mistake and did it anyway....thinking I could just get out of there faster).

Bad choice by mama.

Again she was all over the store.

I had a sort of out-of-body experience where I was able to step back and see myself (frazzled beyone belief....dropping things...trying to monitor her whereabouts as I paid) and I realized that this was NOT the way I wanted to do things.

Thought about it a bit on the way home and my next trip to the grocery store my purpose will be working on appropriate behavior with her (not focusing on buying groceries like I did today).

I will offer her choices that I feel are safe....ride in the cart or sling/backpack...and let her decide what she wants to do. Walking (running around) in the grocery store is not going to be an option (for me....it may work for others I realize)....especially not in a couple of months when I also have a baby with me.

Anyway....I'm finding this all very facsinating and enjoy exploring it with others and hearing your insights. She is definitely asserting her independence BIG TIME so I need to spend some time reflecting on what feels right in my heart and how we can best learn from each other!!


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama*
Becky ~ Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated.

So....a little more experimentation here...

Today we went grocery shopping and DD was adamant that she wanted to walk. Mondays are generally quiet in the store so I agreed.

What a dissaster!!! She was ALL OVER the store!!









I knew pretty much immediately that I had made a mistake. She was seriously at risk of being hurt. People aren't used to toddlers racing around the produce stands and she came close to being hit by a cart a couple of times.







I felt like everyone was glaring at me.

But once she had a taste of freedom there was no getting her back in the cart. So...I said she could walk if she held onto the cart with one hand. This worked for a while and I raced around the store getting the things I needed (of course forgetting tons of things).

When we got to the checkout I told her she needed to get back in the cart to help me unload groceries and push the green button (ok button on the CC machine)...which she loves doing so she agreed.

We then went next door to the drug store to get a card for DH for V-day. As soon as we got in the store she started saying "Lily walk. Lily walk. Lily walk."

I just needed to grab a card and some candy and tried to convince her to stay in the cart but she was insistent that she wanted her hat and coat off and that she wanted to walk.

I agreed (although this time I *knew* before I agreed that I was making a mistake and did it anyway....thinking I could just get out of there faster).

Bad choice by mama.

Again she was all over the store.

I had a sort of out-of-body experience where I was able to step back and see myself (frazzled beyone belief....dropping things...trying to monitor her whereabouts as I paid) and I realized that this was NOT the way I wanted to do things.

Thought about it a bit on the way home and my next trip to the grocery store my purpose will be working on appropriate behavior with her (not focusing on buying groceries like I did today).

I will offer her choices that I feel are safe....ride in the cart or sling/backpack...and let her decide what she wants to do. Walking (running around) in the grocery store is not going to be an option (for me....it may work for others I realize)....especially not in a couple of months when I also have a baby with me.

Anyway....I'm finding this all very facsinating and enjoy exploring it with others and hearing your insights. She is definitely asserting her independence BIG TIME so I need to spend some time reflecting on what feels right in my heart and how we can best learn from each other!!


I think you are doing a wonderful job Erin.

I think it is important to give her lots of prep before you go the next time. Give her choice and decide before you leave home (cart or sling, etc...).

Then I would discuss it the whole way as long as this is not upsetting for her. Like if she is going to ride in the cart I'd say. "I am going to put the stuff that could get mushed in the cart myself. Should I hand you the other things and let you put them in, or should I do it" OR "When we get to the cereal, you will be up high ennough in the cart to get if if you want."

Good luck on your "trial run"


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I think you have gotten a lot of great responses. We have also occasionally faced this struggle. I think what is happening is very developmentally appropriate.







Still frustrating, though!

We have had good luck with offers of snacks and singing once she's in the seat and explanations. I also want to second this:

Quote:

I'm finding out that as DS gets older and more mature, telling him why he has to do something right when he's really upset about it doesn't help him much, I have to talk to him about it when he's calm. More like what you would do with an adult.
I am big on giving explanations ahead of time and afterwards these days. In the moment, DD is too upset to process what I'm explaining at times. But if I explain what is going to happen ("In 10 minutes, we're going to leave the aquarium, and then we're going to walk to the car and then you're going to go in your seat, and we will go home and see the dog") and what DID happen ("I know you were mad before when you didn't want to get in your seat, but we needed to go home and let the dog out") are making a difference. This might not work till your child is pretty verbal, though--my DD is 24 months and very very verbal.

As for the store issue, may I humbly suggest a harness tether?







The "leash" worked well for us when DD was really wanting to walk in some places but still hard to control and too young to follow verbal guidance.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm late to this thread, but here's my two cents.

I usually (unless something is really pressing) let dd have up to about 15 minutes to get into her carseat. I'll let her up front to press buttons and play with the volume on the CD player, etc. If her baby brother is freaking out, I take him out of his seat and nurse him. Once the 15 minutes is up, I'll ask her again if she wants to get in her seat. If she says "no", I'll tell her that she can do ~whatever~ (open & close the windown, turn the blower up, open the visors, etc.) one more time, then she has to get in her seat. I'd say I end up having to physically put her in her seat about 1/10 of the time. It works pretty well for us, and has been the approach since she was about 20 months old. I can't say anything about children younger than that, as I only got my license when dd was 25 months old.


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## mommyblueyes (Jan 5, 2006)

Just a comment. I have learned so much from reading this thread, thank you mammas for being so loving and respectful with your children, I hope to apply this with my own ds!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

As for the store issue, may I humbly suggest a harness tether?
I think this is a great suggestion.









Funny how my perspective has changed. A couple of years ago (pre-kids) I thought toddler "leashes" were humiliating and foolish looking.

Now that I am a mama of a busy toddler who needs to explore the world (and who I need to do so safely)....I see them as a very useful tool.

Quote:

Just a comment. I have learned so much from reading this thread, thank you mammas for being so loving and respectful with your children, I hope to apply this with my own ds!
I agree. This has been one of the most helpful threads I've been a part of at MDC. I'm so grateful for all the support and great ideas people are sharing.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

Let me just add a different insight to the situation. When my DD was about your DD's age, we went through a similar situation. I had my MIL with me, however, so being extra patient was a little tough. Anyway, after about 30 minutes of struggle, I finally got DD strapped into her carseat, screaming her little lungs out. She fell asleep within about 10 minutes and when I got her home, her diaper was completely soaked. Similar situations happened over the next 2-3 days before it finally clicked, she was struggling because she had to PEE and didn't know how to communicate that.

Long story short, we had a naked weekend and DD was completely diaper free in 2 days.

Sometimes there's something going on that we just don't see. Is there something your DD might be trying to tell you?
Oh and I meant to say thanks for this -- great reminder!!

I did check her diaper (she won't sit if she has a poopy diaper) when were in the car and it was clean but I didn't even thinking about checking for wetness or asking if she had to go pee.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Wow, this thread comes at a perfect time for me. I'm exploring letting ds do things his way, in his time, now, too, and am constantly feeling like a failure. Going out anywhere, be it a store, mall, library, is so stressful. I sometimes wonder if I have the patience for this style of parenting. It was really helpful to read the encouraging posts above. So thanks.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm adding this late, sorry







We just had a mini-road trip to my grandma's house, 2.5 hours away. (we stop at my mom's, which is just about in the middle) And I can't listen to the radio very loud at all, cuz it wakes up ds. So....I have to do a lot of thinking, and I was thinking about carseat issues. lol (Plus had a couple of them to deal with, so I got to try out my theories lol)

Anyways...
The first think I want to say, is that if you are saying "we have to...(get in the seat/go home/feed the dog/etc)" that doesn't really count as waiting. kwim? You're trying to persuade dc to make the choice you want her to make (not you specifically, "you" in general).
ime, when I was trying to get ds to not stand with the fridge door open for hours on end (ok not hours. More like minutes lol), and I was trying to persuade him with info and "have to's" it would just take him LONGER to be done in the fridge. My theory was that, I was distracting him from the *important* business at hand. He wasn't able to really feel done with whatever it was he had to do, because he couldn't focus on it. Once I stopped trying to convince him that shutting the door was a good thing, he was able to do what had to be done, and move on with his life. lol
So, in the car, if you are trying to give dc time to be ready to get in the seat, saying things like "we have to go" really just distracts them from *really* having time.
Also, to add to that, its a lot to expect a child to *choose* to get in the seat (well, kids who don't particularly like to be there). It's a big choice, that they are sure to feel conflicted about. On the one hand, they don't WANT to be in it. But on the other hand, YOU want them to be in it. It's really not a fair choice. lol
So, what we did that worked out really well for us was this. We had stopped at a fast food restaurant (ds needed a break from being in the car after an hour or so). We got back into the car, and he didn't want in his seat right away. So we just sat there. I didn't say anything about getting in the seat, and he played at the steering wheel, and pushed buttons, and we sang. Whatever. So I was able to really allow him time. After a bit, I tried to determine if he was at a point that he might be agreeable to being in the seat. I told him "we are going to grandma's house. It is time to get in your seat." And picked him up and put him in his seat. I gave him his water, and cheerios, and his lap toy (standard carseat accessories for us) and there was no dissenting at all. He was perfectly fine with it all.
I have a feeling if I had tried to persuade him with "have to's" it may not have gone that way. "Have to" sounds like something that you don't want to do- it can't be fun if you "have to" do it. kwim?
The second carseat issue (a few days later on the way back home) I did all that, and when I put him in, he protested, so he got up ("It seems like you need a few more minutes before you get in your seat"). We waited not more than a few minutes (no trying to persuade- he was free to do whatever he wanted in the car) and did it again. "we are going to grandma's house. It's time to get in your seat." And put him in, and gave him his stuff, and he was just fine with it this time. I got the feeling that it helped HIM to be more cooperative, that he knew that I would totally respect his feelings on it.
Well, the second issue may have been preceded with my normal "have to's," and rushing to get in the seat asap. So maybe that's where the issue came in.

Ok, just some thoughts on the issue, as I spent hours thinking about it over the last few days. lol I'm such a loser


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

i actually read this whole thing even though carseat is not an issue for us since i dont drive. when we get a ride with others is when we use carseats and then it is interesting enough that dd has not objected.

i would respectfully suggest that these days kids are expected to spend an awful lot of time in cars and whatever we can do to reduce that may be worth it.

incidentally, we get out of the house more than a lot of people i know with kids (and cars) ... we just dont go that far from home. mostly walking with a stroller & sling when dd was younger (often the stroller held books/groceries), and public transportation aint so bad even in semi-rural maryland.


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## GabeMom (Aug 17, 2005)

One more thing to add. I am certainly no expert on this matter, as my ds is not a fan of the car. (I try to use it as little as possible, but it seems everywhere we go once we're in the car is 30 minutes away...) He does still fuss sometimes, but for a short while, he would stiffen his legs and not bend enough to get in his seat. He was very interested in the front seat and really wanted to be there. I decided to let him "play" in the front seat when we weren't going anywhere. Now, every day a little while before Daddy is due home, we go to the garage and play in the car! He is allowed to climb wherever he wants to and push buttons etc. (The hazard lights are his favorites because they actually work when the car is off!) When he's done, we go inside. His interest time has gotten shorter and shorter and lately, we're only out there for about 5 minutes. Like I said, he is still not a great traveller, but he will BEND when I put him in the seat and does not reach for the front seat, screaming like he did there for a while. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the "novelty" of playing in the car and I guess that's what I've found a solution to. It is no longer a novelty to play with; just another of his many toys!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

GabeMom, I applaud you! One of those brilliantly obvious solutions that I would never think of.


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