# Advice On Ballooning, Buried Penis...



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

I am looking for some informed advice. I had previously posted on another thread about my intact son. He has 2 urinary conditions, one of which is called "concealed/hidden penis" wherein the penis is trapped/retracted in the pubic fat pad and therefore, hidden until pressure is put around the area. This has also led to a secondary condition called "urinary ballooning" in which urine becomes trapped by the foreskin and therefore the area "balloons" up until released during changing by applying pressure around the base of the penis&#8230;this is an off and on condition caused by the "extra" foreskin that normally would be filled in by penis shaft flipping inwards and trapping urine&#8230;we have seen 2 different urologists who have advised us that once he is walking on a consistent basis and using the pelvic muscles it should resolve itself as the fat pad will be gradually reduce. However, the first urologist advised me to retract daily ("with aggression") to help remedy the ballooning (which I did cautiously for a little while but did not feel comfortable about it after everything I've read and stopped because it was obviously uncomfortable for my son as well)...we requested a second opinion and went to Sick Kids in Toronto where we were told that he has slight phimosis due to scarring from the previous retracting and were given a steroid cream to apply daily for 6 weeks to loosen foreskin....we were told to retract once a day to help stretch and also clean because the trapped urine could cause infections. Circumcision was not recommended in this case as it could further complicate the issue if scar tissue is present and as parents we are opposed to anyhow. We completed this steroid treatment several months ago with success in loosening his foreskin but since then it has become quite tight again and I am very reluctant to try retracting even though I have been told to do so on a daily basis. I'm at a total loss as to what I should and shouldn't do now....I have noticed that when I do retract enough to see tip of the penis...the foreskin at the top looks red as well as the area around the urethral opening and it is uncomfortable for my son...most of the time I just apply pressure to release the urinary buildup and just leave it alone...however, since it has been such a long time with this condition (since 3 months - he's now 19 months and still not walking yet!) and I keep hearing from people how important it is to "properly" clean the penis area since he is intact and we don't want complications with infections, etc, etc...I am afraid to retract BUT also afraid not to retract at this point....HELP!!

I have read several articles regarding ballooning and how it's a natural phase of glans seperation but because it started so early with my son (3 months) I'm sure it's has to do with his concealed penis condition and the subsequent "extra" foreskin that flips in on itself and traps the urine. Believe me, I DO NOT WANT TO RETRACT if I don't have to....but I keep getting told that having the urine trapped in there greatly amplifies the possibility of infection and if I don't clean, he'll get multiple infections and end up being forced to have a circumsion. I am confused because the specialists I saw were both paediatric urologists...should they not know the proper care of an intact penis?? Even my paediatrician says to retract..but advises against circumsion. How confusing is this for a new mother......I have a follow up appointment with the urologist in August...I'm afraid I'll get reprimanded for not following their instructions to retract and clean...everyone makes me feel like a bad mother for refusing...even my MIL (my husband is intact, by the way, and was taught to clean under his foreskin to prevent disease...when he was an infant he was retracted by a doctor who said he had phimosis...apparently blood shot out when they did it...afterwards he was fine (??). Scary stuff. Should I be telling the urologist not to retract as well...because they both did...my son cried but there was no blood but there was obviously scarring as we found out later...these doctors (especially specialists) think they're God and to question their methods...forbidden. How do you approach this situation?? They advised me that they would wait until after he's 2 to consider surgery to remove part of the fat pad if still concealed but circumsion was last on the list of options and I made it clear that we were against it...first course of action was steroid cream, which we did....now we wait and see if the fat pad reduces I guess.....considering I keep reading that ballooning is quite normal, no one I have run into has ever seen it...including several paediatricians, care givers (day care centre), nurses, other parents, etc...I feel so alone in trying to figure out what I should be doing.


----------



## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

Please don't retract...not even a little bit. Everytime you do, you are risking tearing the skin (even if you do it gently) and that can cause infection. Urine is sterile and does not cause infection when it is under the foreskin. Everytime he pees, anything in there will get flushed out.

Balloning is not a "condition". It is a normal occurance in intact boys and you should do absolutely nothing. Some doctors think it means the boy has phimosis, but this is totally wrong. All it means is that his foreskin has started to separate, but his foreskin opening is still small, which is normal. He will stop ballooning probably when he becomes retractible and maybe before.

Don't worry about his buried/trapped penis for now. If he's chubby, it's probably come out later when he slims down. I'm sure someone else will have more info on true buried/trapped penis (when boys don't outgrow it), but I don't know much on that subject.

Try to find some new doctors. All the advice you have been given is way off. There's nothing wrong with your son's penis and even if the doctors seem foreskin-friendly, because they don't recommend circ, they really aren't because they are having you do all sorts of stuff that could cause problems later.

ETA: No, pediatric urologists/specialists do not always know how to care for an intact penis. In fact, I think more often than not, in the US, they are going to be just as ignorant as a regular ped.


----------



## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

It does sound like there _might_ be an actual problem with your son. Ballooning is normal, but the urine is supposed to be able to completely exit the foreskin at the end of urination. You wrote that the urine stays ballooned under the foreskin until you manually squeeze it out from the base of the penis at diaper changes. The only time I've ever read about that was when another mom posted some time ago and her son ended up being diagnosed with megaprepuce.

Normally the inside of the foreskin attaches immediately behind the corona (the ridge of the back of the glans). But in megaprepuce, the inside of the foreskin attaches at the base of the penis, so the open space under the foreskin actually extends down the whole penis.

The only correction I am aware of is surgery. Talk to the pediatric urologist about megaprepuce. If this is what he has, and surgery is elected, ask if they can preserve a normal amount of foreskin so he doesn't look circumcised afterwards.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

This quote seems to apply to your son:
"Usually the greatest problem an intact boy will ever have is that someone _*thinks*_ he has a problem."

Dr. Fleiss, a prominent pediatrician in L.A., has this to say about ballooning:

"Ballooning of the foreskin during urination is a normal and temporary condition in some boys. Ballooning comes as a surprise only to those adults who have no experience with this phase of penile development. It certainly does not cause kidney damage; it has nothing to do with the kidneys. Ballooning disappears as the foreskin and glans separate and the opening of the foreskin increases in diameter. It requires no treatment. "

Your son doesn't have "extra" foreskin. He has exactly the amount of foreskin he is supposed to have. And trying to get his foreskin to stretch or loosen up is comparable to trying to stretch and loosen the vaginal area of a girl....we'd consider that child abuse, right?

You can email Dr. Fleiss directly at Fleiss AT usc.edu (obviously take out the spaces and replace the "AT" with the @ sign.)

Or you can call Marilyn Milos, a nurse who knows a lot about intact boys, at 415-488-9883.


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I wouldnt talk to them about megaprepuce until you see if the buried penis resolves when he starts to loose the baby fat ie when he is a few years old.

I would be terrified to send my son in to have a "little" foreskin removed since even a little can cause numb areas and he would loose valuable parts of the foreskin.

Even with the urine sitting in there it wont hurt anything since it is sterile and sometimes it does stay in there for a bit. It just isnt that big a deal.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I wouldnt talk to them about megaprepuce until you see if the buried penis resolves when he starts to loose the baby fat ie when he is a few years old.

I would be terrified to send my son in to have a "little" foreskin removed since even a little can cause numb areas and he would loose valuable parts of the foreskin.

Even with the urine sitting in there it wont hurt anything since it is sterile and sometimes it does stay in there for a bit. It just isnt that big a deal.









:


----------



## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Yes urine is sterile when it comes out, but it is a good medium for bacterial growth if it pools over long periods. That why people who can't neurologically empty their bladders completely or people with various anatomical twists of their urinary plumbing are more likely to get UTIs. OTOH, it is the regular flushing of the normal urinary tract with sterile urine many times as day that works against infections taking hold.

Sounds like your son's ballooning in combination with the buried penis is making for more trapping than is typical with just straight ballooning. It may be keeping the urine from exiting the preputial space with gravity as would typically happen. The ballooning and buried penis will in time resolve themselves, as the foreskin separates more completely from the glans and he gets more active and the fat pad goes away. But the fact that you have to express the urine perhaps does indicate a higher risk of bacterial growth under there, so other measures than doing nothing might be in order.

I can see why the docs might THINK they should try to hasten his retractability to get him through this phase quicker, but obviously the steroid cream is only a temporary fix (and you wouldn't want to keep doing it continuously), and the forcible retracting carries risk of multiple harms, and goes against every reasonable care recommendation for intact penises. (See NOCIRC Brochure #6 on Forcible Retraction: http://www.nocirc.org/publish/6pam.pdf).

I do not have the medical knowledge to say much more about this. The only thing that seems reasonable to me is to continue to express urine each time you change his diaper. I would definitely not be retracting (especially not "with aggression" - YIKES!). And I second the suggestion to contact Dr. Fleiss who is super knowledgeable, foreskin-friendly, and happy to help.

The good thing is, your son has had no problems from this even though he's had it for 16 months already! And don't worry about the pinkness of the inside of the foreskin and the tip of the head of the penis - this is their normal color, not a sign of infection. And don't let anyone give you a diagnosis of phimosis. It is completely normal for the foreskin opening to be tight and closed at this age. Whether any scarring damage has been done by the previous retraction is probably not something that can be definitively known at this point, so don't fixate on that. Also, re: care of the foreskin, the correct care for a child of this age is to wash off the outside, period. Once the foreskin is retractable and he is developmentally ready he can learn to retract, rinse underneath, and replace to the foreskin back forward, occasionally in the bath (more regularly by puberty).

This will all be behind you one day!

Best wishes, Gillian


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

My three boys have/ had the buried penis. They were chubby babies. This went away when my first two turned 3. They're lean now. My 11wker is still chubby and cute as a button! There is nothing to worry about the buried penis issue. That will resolve when they're older. I do understand the worry because I worried about that too when I discovered it when ds#1 was a baby.

It sounds to me like your son's doctors set this up for you to have surgery. You can avoid surgery! Absolutely in no way should anyone retract a boys foreskin except for the boy himself. You have good instincts. My son's Jewish pediatrician retracted ds#2 and he became red at the tip. I thought it was infection and called Marylin Milos. No retraction! Its what caused it to become red and I'm sure if I followed up with the Pediatrician about this he would have recommended surgery. This is a guy who said circ wasn't necessary! The foreskin has an amazing ability to heal. ds#2 thought "ballooning" was fun.







Thats normal too.







Hugs to you mama. I hope all goes well for the little guy.


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Wow...thanks to everyone here for all your support.







: I definately know that my son has a more complicated condition than just the natural ballooning but I'm just wondering now how to I deal with the urologist whom I KNOW will retract and will reprimand me for questioning him (since I already did at our previous appointment where I showed up with a file folder full of medical journal articles in relationship to buried penis...god forbid you ask questions and take control of your own/son's health!!) Anyhow....how do you deal with these professionals that insist you retract, etc....??

I have sent email to Dr Fleiss. Looking forward to hearing back from him.


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Personally unless he develops more of a problem like not being able to pee or does get a infection I wouldnt take him back the the urologist right now. There is nothing they can do but cause more harm at this point any way so if it were my son I wouldnt go back.


----------



## Bm31 (Jun 5, 2005)

At least you got good advice on the circ from your doctors. It would be the worst thing you could do for a buried penis.


----------



## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NewMomBevW* 
Wow...thanks to everyone here for all your support.







: I definately know that my son has a more complicated condition than just the natural ballooning but I'm just wondering now how to I deal with the urologist whom I KNOW will retract and will reprimand me for questioning him (since I already did at our previous appointment where I showed up with a file folder full of medical journal articles in relationship to buried penis...god forbid you ask questions and take control of your own/son's health!!) Anyhow....*how do you deal with these professionals that insist you retract, etc....??*
I have sent email to Dr Fleiss. Looking forward to hearing back from him.

You fire them. You kindly ( or not so kindly) inform them that their view on your son's physical state does not line up with yours and you don't agree with the treatment plan and you will be seeking another physician who is more foreskin friendly and knowledgeable about how to help your son. That's how you deal with the "professionals".


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Whew...that's a tough/uncomfortable position to be in to have to stand up to these professionals that think that their opinion is the educated, correct one and that as parents we are ignorant and misguided if we disagree with them. Is there anything I can print or quote to back up my arguement...obviously something by a medical professional would be preferable otherwise they will just discount it.

FRUITFUL WOMB....did your sons experience the ballooning while they still had the buried penis condition? Did they have any problems with infections, etc? What we you advised to do and how did you deal with it? Do you know if it's painful for them while they're swollen? Sometimes my son gets REALLY swollen and it takes a while to express all the urine out....sorry if I'm hounding you with questions but I have not yet encountered another mother who has experienced this besides you so I'm just picking your brain here...









I've attached a couple pictures as to what my son's condition looks like...the first is the buried penis...it looks like there is no penis but upon pressure around the base....sure enough, out pops a normal-sized penis (actually the urologist told us that it was a bit larger/thicker than normal---much to my DH's delight...







). The second is what it looks like when it balloons up with urine. Please advise if this is what your sons' condition looked like....
THANKS SO MUCH!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Bevie01/i9.jpg BURIED

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Ballooning.jpg


----------



## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Wow I have never seen anything like those pics before. I hope you hear back from Dr. Fleiss soon.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Also you can email Marilyn Milos if you don't want to call her:

[email protected]


----------



## birdiefu (Jan 19, 2005)

Just wanted to give you some







and hope you can get some sound advice from a doctor that knows what they are talking about! My son also had a buried penis (looked just like your 1st pic) and it started coming out at around 2 years old.

I also second the recommendations not to retract! Does the urine drain enough by just pushing to let the penis emerge from the fat-pad (without retracting foreskin, of course)? Like a pp mentioned, urine is sterile while in the bladder, but once out bacteria can thrive in it. Also the change in urine pH as urea converts to ammonia can burn the skin and *particularly* any wounds caused by aggresive retraction. Though I'm no expert, it sounds like frequent draining of the urine followed by a rinse (saline would probably be best especially if there is already irritation) should tide him over until his penis emerges more.

Good luck and I hope you can get some answers soon!


----------



## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NewMomBevW* 
Wow...thanks to everyone here for all your support.







: I definately know that my son has a more complicated condition than just the natural ballooning but I'm just wondering now how to I deal with the urologist whom I KNOW will retract and will reprimand me for questioning him (since I already did at our previous appointment where I showed up with a file folder full of medical journal articles in relationship to buried penis...god forbid you ask questions and take control of your own/son's health!!) Anyhow....how do you deal with these professionals that insist you retract, etc....??

I have sent email to Dr Fleiss. Looking forward to hearing back from him.

Yes, cancel the appointment with the urologist and find a new specialist that will provide better care for your family. You shouldn't have to deal with anyone that makes you uncomfortable. Good luck!


----------



## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

i agree dont go back there is nothing they can do but cause more harm to your son..........
i am not sure what advice can really be given in your dc's care but i will try i am not sure how much the ballooning is with your ds how does he pee without a diaper on could diaper free time be a idea this way he will have more time to able to play with his penis the idea is that maybe with him playing with it the foreskin will be come looser and this eliminate the ballooning as for combating the possibility of infrection i would say daily baths (soaking in water)


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I think littlemizflava might have something. If you could get him to pee in a potty it might help with the urine getting trapped. The diaper pressing on the foreskin could be part of the problem.

They might be able to help you with getting him to use a potty over in the Elimination Communication forum.


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NewMomBevW* 
FRUITFUL WOMB....did your sons experience the ballooning while they still had the buried penis condition? Did they have any problems with infections, etc? What we you advised to do and how did you deal with it? Do you know if it's painful for them while they're swollen? Sometimes my son gets REALLY swollen and it takes a while to express all the urine out....sorry if I'm hounding you with questions but I have not yet encountered another mother who has experienced this besides you so I'm just picking your brain here...









Please advise if this is what your sons' condition looked like....
THANKS SO MUCH!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Bevie01/i9.jpg BURIED

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Ballooning.jpg

Thank you for the pictures. I have to be completely honest with you. My first son did look like that (the _"BURIED"_ picture) but he was circumcised. Because he didn't have any foreskin he wasn't ballooning. Please allow me to vent for just a moment...

He was circumcised against my wishes- in the hospital. I take blame for what happened to him and nearly lost my life over this tragedy.

My son already had gone through so much. How could I take his mother away too.

Ds #1 had skin attached to the glans after his brutal incident. I was advised to pull the skin apart-away from the glans. I dared not to. No one told me but I had a feeling that if I left it alone the skin would grow as he grew. Then maybe he wouldn't be so tight when he had erections as an adult. It separated on its own time. He has meatal stenosis and had the buried penis. Its not buried anymore. I feel so awful







now that I'm reliving this pain. I have so much WRATH against the doctor and the hospital where he was born..







I don't think I'll ever get over it. The lawyer said he is afraid to come to TX because there is a cap on how much a doctor can be sued, thanks to the new law here,







I went to this particular lawyer because he won a case like mine before. This lawyer said he would charge me $300k. Thats the cap. If I win, he would take everything. If I loose I would be in a lot of debt! Isn't that just lovely







: I have more to say for another day and probably somewhere else on MDC. I'd hate to hijack your thread.

I can tell that a lot of mothers here are on the edge of their seats on this issue, including myself.

Ds#2 and #3 They have very long foreskins. As chubby babies it looks like all they have is foreskin because the penis is buried. There is very little space between the foreskin and the glans so when ballooning occurs it isn't as pronounced.

It sounds like your scared that these doctors are going to harm your son. I would NOT go back to them. Find or make stickers that say "I'm intact, Don't Retract!" and put it on his diaper









I have faith that your son will be okay. But I encourage you to call or write to Marilyn Milos [email protected]415-488-9883 Send her the pictures you showed to us. Please please keep us posted. I won't be able to rest until I know everything is okay.


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Oh and I second the "Diaper Free Time" suggestion. Post #16 birdiefu says her son looked just like the first picture. So your definitely not alone. Does your son show signs of discomfort when the ballooning happens? ds#2 only got red at the tip that one time when the doctor retracted it. As far as an infection from ballooning, that hasn't happened. Hang in there.


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 

Ds #1 had skin attached to the glans after his brutal incident. I was advised to pull the skin apart-away from the glans. I dared not to. No one told me but I had a feeling that if I left it alone the skin would grow as he grew. Then maybe he wouldn't be so tight when he had erections as an adult. It separated on its own time. He has meatal stenosis and had the buried penis. Its not buried anymore. I feel so awful







now that I'm reliving this pain. I have so much WRATH against the doctor and the hospital where he was born..







I don't think I'll ever get over it. The lawyer said he is afraid to come to TX because there is a cap on how much a doctor can be sued, thanks to the new law here,







I went to this particular lawyer because he won a case like mine before. This lawyer said he would charge me $300k. Thats the cap. If I win, he would take everything. If I loose I would be in a lot of debt! Isn't that just lovely







: I have more to say for another day and probably somewhere else on MDC. I'd hate to hijack your thread.



Fruitfulwomb, how old is your son?

Contact www.arclaw.org for more advice on possibly suing the doctor. (That's what they do...sue circumcisers.) Our own Dave2GA sues circumcisers, as well.

Even if you can't sue the doc now, your son can sue the doc when he turns 18 (but there is a very narrow timeframe after he turns 18 for him to sue, so don't delay. Start gathering his medical records now.)

Don't kill yourself.







Get angry and get even.

And stick around here and help us educate other mamas.


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

My son is 7. And I would never kill myself. I came to my senses and know very well that my son needs his mother. Thanks for the link. If anything they can advise me on what to prepare for. So when the day comes for ds to attack the hospital and the doctor who did this to him, we will all be ready. I want to go after them now so he doesn't have to relive this horrible ordeal. There is a statue of limitation. But I forget what age that is. Believe me I'm so ready to fight!!!! One pediatrician from a Mother Wise group (I'm ANTI EZZO - just so you all know) she went on a ram page about how expensive it is to try to sue someone. "Lawyers will charge for phone calls". She said things like that. I never got over the fit she threw. I bet she intended to get people to think twice about suing. There I go again, on a tangent. OP, sorry









*NewMomBevW*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=129378
Go to this link.

"If this doctor is retracting one intact child (in this case, yours), then he is doing it to all intact boys and you can be instrumental in protecting them and getting the word out to the entire medical profession. The typical doctor or nurse is unlikely to pay any attention to a mother instructing them on how to run their business but we have a powerful ally." - Frank (emphasis added)

Frank is talking about a lawyer who will write to that doctor (pro-bono) warning him to NOT retract the foreskin of any child. It won't say you will sue them but it will certainly get their attention.

BTW, how is the little guy?


----------



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
My son is 7. And I would never kill myself. I came to my senses and know very well that my son needs his mother.

Good.......that's what I figured, but I just wanted to check.


----------



## mgmbill (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi NewMomBevW,

Until this problem resolves itself (as it should over time), I would echo the treatment advice that _glongley_ posted, which is to continue to flush out the trapped urine after each diaper change and bath. One of the worst things you can do is forcibly retract the foreskin, which might result in tearing of the skin - a condition that will greatly increase the possibility of infection. Unfortunately, most doctors don't appreciate that fact, because they figure they can treat an exposed infection with less difficulty than one they can't reach as easily. But it's much better to avoid an infection in the first place!

On finding a new doctor I (if you feel that you need one at this point), my suggestion is to call around and find a foreskin friendly physician who you feel comfortable with after you first explain that you want to avoid forcible retraction and circumcision (NOCIRC or Dr. Fleiss might be able to help you find someone in your area). If your current doctor(s) call you back asking why you haven't been in lately and you want to avoid any uncomfortable confrontations, you can simply say that you've decided to take your son to see a specialist, which would be true. They should understand that.

Good luck - I hope that helps!

Matthew Hess
www.mgmbill.org


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks everyone for your comments!! So far, as I had mentioned I have only been applying pressure around the base enough to express trapped urine and otherwise leave it alone. I still worry about it sitting in there too long. It doesn't seem to bother him too much although I'm sure it's uncomfortable to some degree. When you're suggesting rinsing with saline solution...I'm assuming you mean OUTSIDE foreskin and not retracting, correct?? The problem is that the part of the foreskin that's red is at the tip which I can only see if I retract because it's flipped inside. I have emailed Marilyn Milos, Dr Robert Van Howe and Doctors Opposing Circumcision as well. All the "informed" advice I can get, the better!! I guess I will have to confront and inform current urologist of my decision not to follow instructions to retract...I am sure he will say it is only because of my son's "conditions" that I was told to do so and normally they would not. Sigh. Not looking forward to the backlash.

I am nervous about toilet training at this stage. I have no idea how to deal with the ballooning issue as it pertains to toilet training transition. I was hoping to wait until it (hopefully) resolves itself before attempting.

Fruitful Womb....thank you for your honesty. So sorry to hear about what happened to DS#1 and how it has effected you. Don't beat yourself up too much. From the sounds of it you are doing the right thing and protecting him against further damage by trusting your instincts. I kind of know how you feel....I looked into a law suit against my OB after we lost our twin son @ 36 weeks (and almost lost my life and surviving twin as well!) due to complications of severe pre-eclampsia (toxemia) and high blood pressure and edema. We were told that twin cases are highly technical and involved and they would have to hire a "twin specialist" to review medical documents and that would cost $5,000 (which we don't have) and that most likely we would not have a case anyhow unless our surviving son has a disability or health problems directly because of what happened. Cause of death as per autopsy was blood loss and asphyxia....no cord strangulation or placental abruption noted. I believe that my condition directly caused what happened to my lost son....their were signs of trouble at 34 weeks when my blood pressure suddenly increased, I gained substantial weight (65 pounds total on my 5'1" normally 110 lb frame!) and ultrasound showed decreased blood flow to twin's placenta. OB chose to do NOTHING. No induction date, no follow-up testing, no medication...NOTHING. Surviving son has gross motor delay (not walking or talking @ 19 months) and large head (over 98 percentile). Mutiple genetics tests have come back normal. I am worried that he might have mild-moderate cerebral palsy because of what happened to his twin at birth...we are scheduled for MRI later this year. Last head circumference measurements showed significant jump in charts so we are seeing neurologist to advise on whether there is concern for hydrocephalus (water on the brain) and stat CT scan. We sometimes feel like we are not doing Alex (our lost twin) justice by not persuing legal action against OB and basically letting him get away with murder. My story is not the same as yours but I understand your pain and feelings of helplessness.


----------



## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

I am not a doctor but I think you should either see your existing urologist again and figure out what is going on or find a new one, because something is definitely going on here. That second picture is NOT normal ballooning although I don't know what the heck it is.

In that second picture, is that his glans coming out of the foreskin? It looks like he's retracting already. It also looks like the urethral opening is not on the end of the penis but on the underside. Has anyone talked to you about hypospadias?

I am not one to be alarmist and most penis problems I think should be solved by doing nothing, but this is not looking at all to me like a problem that is within the normal limits of an intact penis. I think it would definitely be worth finding a urologist who can figure out what's going on and recommend a conservative treatment.

I hope you hear back from the doctors and Marilyn Milos -- make sure to email them the pictures so they don't think it's just normal ballooning!


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

_In that second picture, is that his glans coming out of the foreskin? It looks like he's retracting already. It also looks like the urethral opening is not on the end of the penis but on the underside. Has anyone talked to you about hypospadias?_

No his glans are not coming out....his foreskin is flipped inwards which is causing the urine to be trapped. He does not have hypospadias...he has been retracted and everything looks normal (size/position/etc). I am wondering whether or not he has megaprepuce because his whole penis balloons up but neither urologist mentioned this. They both did agree that he has a very large pubic fat pad which is hiding his penis' truth length, however. I do not know how to find a "foreskin" friendly urologist...I figured Sick Kids was the best bet but they retracted as well. I have already emailed Doctors Opposing Circumcision, Marilyn Milos and Dr Robert Van Howe.


----------



## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I agree with Quirky. If that is his glans sticking out in the second picture, it does look like he might have hypospadias. I also wonder if his foreskin failed to form normally, if at all. Has he looked like this from birth? Or did his penis look normal at birth?

ETA: we posted at the same time!

ETA again: You keep saying he has extra foreskin that flips in on itself, but I'm having trouble visualizing what that means, could you explain in more detail? And who told you he has extra foreskin? How did they determine that?


----------



## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride*
I agree with Quirky. If that is his glans sticking out in the second picture, it does look like he might have hypospadias. I also wonder if his foreskin failed to form normally, if at all. Has he looked like this from birth? Or did his penis look normal at birth?

ETA: we posted at the same time!

ETA again: You keep saying he has extra foreskin that flips in on itself, but I'm having trouble visualizing what that means, could you explain in more detail? And who told you he has extra foreskin? How did they determine that?

It really does look like his glans protruding from the foreskin.


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Trust me, his glans are not protruding...it might be hard to see because the picture is blurry (I can't get him to lie still for these pics!!) His urethral opening is in the correct place---that has already been confirmed and I have seen it many times myself. I have attached another one where I have applied pressure to the base (fig 1) and it shows the shaft and head of the penis which is still covered by foreskin. If you look at the "tip" of the penis...the end of his foreskin is actually pulled and flipped inwards (inside) instead of handing down outside as it normally would. When fully retracted it looks like the second picture (fig 2) which is from an article on megaprepuce (excessive inner foreskin) so I don't know if that's what we're dealing with but it would explain why his whole penile area seems to balloon up and not just the tip. Neither of the urologists mentioned it as odd.

Fig 1 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Bevie01/Fig1.jpg

Fig 2 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../retracted.jpg

No one told me he had "extra" foreskin...I was just using that term as a visual to explain that the foreskin that would normally be filled in with penile shaft (which is not because penis retracted into fat pad instead) is flipping inside and creating obstruction for urine. I don't really know how to explain it....


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Hi,

I went looking for this thread to see how you were doing and noticed that I missed the post with the pictures. I can't believe I missed that.

About the last two pictures, it doesn't look like he is buried. Is that the real color when it balloons? Does he act like he is uncomfortable when he pees?

The second picture, what happened? Is that him retracted? Was that picture taken at a Doctors office?

Anyways I also wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to his twin brother







That must have been so hard for you. My heart just ached when I read that.









Have you been able to get a hold of NOCIRC or that Dr. that A&A mentioned Dr. Fleiss or maybe the D.O.C. I've read a lot of things here on the board. I can't seem to stop thinking about this thread. I sure hope he gets better. Poor little guy.


----------



## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NewMomBevW* 

No one told me he had "extra" foreskin...I was just using that term as a visual to explain that the foreskin that would normally be filled in with penile shaft (which is not because penis retracted into fat pad instead) is flipping inside and creating obstruction for urine. I don't really know how to explain it....

You mean he has megaprepuce? The open pocket under the foreskin extends all the way to the base of the penis, along the shaft? or do you mean that the tip of his foreskin rolled inside itself, and because of the phimotic ring, the urine pressure expands under the foreskin and the ballooned foreskin stretches beyond the phimotic ring, then urine pressure itself creates a valve of a double layer of foreskin that cuts off the flow of urine out the foreskin opening? Or is it something else?

Sorry, I have so been trying to figure this out...







poor baby


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
Hi,

About the last two pictures, it doesn't look like he is buried. Is that the real color when it balloons? Does he act like he is uncomfortable when he pees?

The second picture, what happened? Is that him retracted? Was that picture taken at a Doctors office?

I'm not sure which pictures you're referring to now...LOL. Are you talking abou the pictures from the 12th? First picture is me applying pressure around the base of the penis to show typically buried penile shaft (still under foreskin)...the second is a picture from a medical journal article regarding "megaprepuce" showing another patient...but that's what he looks like when fully retracted so I included it as reference.

JULY 12TH:
Fig 1 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Bevie01/Fig1.jpg PENILE SHAFT
Fig 2 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../retracted.jpg MED. JOURNAL FULLY RETRACTED

The other pics are from the earlier post (6th)...not of my actual son...but shows how his buried condition looks and ballooning with urine. I think I actually posted other pictures of my actual son but now I can't find that post...

JULY 6TH:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Bevie01/i9.jpg BURIED
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Ballooning.jpg BALLOONING

These are actual son..."at rest" showing buried condition and when really ballooned up (not all the time)....and yes, when it's REALLY ballooned the veins are quite pronounced and it looks bluish...he doesn't seem to be in pain or anything but I can imagine it's uncomfortable to some degree and I try to change him more often when it's like that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Picture067.jpg BURIED - ACTUAL
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ie01/007_7.jpg REALLY BALLOONING

_Anyways I also wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to his twin brother That must have been so hard for you. My heart just ached when I read that.

Have you been able to get a hold of NOCIRC or that Dr. that A&A mentioned Dr. Fleiss or maybe the D.O.C. I've read a lot of things here on the board. I can't seem to stop thinking about this thread. I sure hope he gets better. Poor little guy._

Thank you re: his lost twin brother. It was devastating and it is still painful for us to see him without his brother and watch him grow and change and wonder what they would have been like together. Some people say that time heals but not really...you just live with it and it becomes a part of you...like a hole in your heart..it never goes away...sometimes it feels even worse because at every milestone/birthday/Xmas we grieve over and over again.







:

I have gotten replies from Marilyn Milos who instructed me to contact a Dr Robert Van Howe (which hasn't replied yet) and replies from DOC John D. Geisheker who agreed NOT to retract and that he had never heard of megaprepuce and thinks it's probably just an exaggeration by doctors as another excuse to circumcize. Marilyn Milos had never heard of it either...apparently it was only first documented in 1994. I do not even know if this is a condition that he has...I just thought because he has such extensive ballooning that might apply but I don't really know.

Thanks for your concern...I really hope it resolves itself sometime soon. We have been dealing with this for a while and so far he has had no ill effects. I would like to have another pelvic ultrasound to make sure there is no urinary reflux but otherwise there's not much I can do except redo the steroid treatment or keep retracting like I've been told (which I won't). Other Moms I've talked to on this board who's son has the same buried condition all said that it resolved on it's own around 2/3 years of age. The sooner, the better!!


----------



## NewMomBevW (Nov 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
You mean he has megaprepuce? The open pocket under the foreskin extends all the way to the base of the penis, along the shaft? or do you mean that the tip of his foreskin rolled inside itself, and because of the phimotic ring, the urine pressure expands under the foreskin and the ballooned foreskin stretches beyond the phimotic ring, then urine pressure itself creates a valve of a double layer of foreskin that cuts off the flow of urine out the foreskin opening? Or is it something else?

Sorry, I have so been trying to figure this out...







poor baby

As I said before...I just heard of megaprepuce and don't know much about it but because his ballooning is so extensive (not just confined to the head of the glans) I wondered if this might be another condition he suffers from. Marilyn Milos from NOCIRC never heard of it as neither did John D. Geisheker from DOC. It might also be the second thing you mentioned...the tip of his foreskin always flips inward...I don't know about the phimotic ring cutting off the flow but I'm sure it has something to do with it since it doesn't retract naturally yet...I think the ballooning is mainly due to the flipped in tip of foreskin that creates the obstruction and then the buildup of urine just increases the pressure until I manually have to apply pressure around the base and pull down to release it. It's hard to explain, honestly.


----------



## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

The pictures I said I missed were the ones in post #31.

The actual pictures of his ballooning and it being buried just baffled. I have never seen anything like that before. I'd be interested in knowing what Dr Robert Van Howe says. Until then give that little guy lots of love, hugs and kisses for us!


----------



## mmmssv (Aug 27, 2008)

My baby son seems to have exactly the same problem and an urologist says he needs surgery. I would really like to know how your son is doing!


----------



## Microsoap (Dec 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmmssv* 
My baby son seems to have exactly the same problem and an urologist says he needs surgery. I would really like to know how your son is doing!

If he's peeing fine and not in any pain, you're best bet is to leave it alone. Once you do surgery, you can't get back what you cut off and it may have been normal (every foreskin, like every penis is different).

It's like those idiot braindead doctors who suggest circ for UTIs -- WHICH IS NOT RELATED NOR NECESSARY -- and the UTIs come back after the sugery.


----------

