# Is this really how they do it.



## AoifesMom (Sep 7, 2007)

On my mainstream message board today one mother posted advice she got from her pediatrician regarding her 10 month old daughter. He says at this age a baby should not need to nurse at night so when baby wakes she should check her after two minutes of crying. If all seems ok, how can it be ok if baby is crying







:, leave her to cry. He recommends checking on her every 30 minutes until she finally puts herself back to sleep.

I cannot believe anyone every lets their child cry themselves to sleep, but
I didn't realize anyone was cruel enough to let them cry alone in the dark for 30 minutes at a time! Is this standard for CIO. I always knew it wasn't an option for me so I didn't research how it is done. It seems like abuse, especially for that length of time!


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

Ummmm...I have a 10 month old and that's just heartless. I wouldn't do that to my 9 yr old! (or my husband for that matter!)


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

I've heard about people doing this with babies much younger than 10 months, though. 10 _weeks_ in some cases.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

It makes me want to vomitt


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I saw a mom letting her DD scream in KMart today for nearly that long. She said to the older woman with her (grandma?) "Oh, she's BOSSY!" She was a newborn, clearly. Then when she FINALLY picked her up she said "I will change your diaper if you just stop all this nonsence!"
I imagine it is likely she screams alot at night too.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

On one hand, some babies DO cry and "fuss" more than others, so it may NOT be that the baby is hungry, BUT I would never, ever let a baby CIO. Even if my little dude is crying for "attention," I figure he needs it otherwise he wouldn't be asking for it.


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## JJJJBlue3333 (Sep 9, 2004)

That is so very sad.







:


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## tubulidentata2 (Aug 6, 2006)

I have mainstream friends who are otherwise great parents, yet somehow are not bothered by CIO. They casually mention that it only took 45 minutes the first night, and then only 5 or so thereafter. Forty-five seems to be the magic number, perhaps how long it takes to alter the baby's brain







. Unfortunately, they now have toddlers who go to sleep far more easily than mine does, so my leading by example isn't doing much good.


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## Lina Lina (Oct 18, 2007)

Unfortunaly my sister, who is also ExtendedB (now 19 month old), and her husband, also apply a CIO technique: if baby/child does not subside crying (=falling asleep) in 20 minutes (they actually watch the clock!) they go and pick her up!
On top of that hey have the nerve to tell us we (and especially my husband  pick ours up much too quickly when they cry or are upset, or do not sleep.

Unfortunately wit my ppi I myself have been having (and still have) much difficulty with dealing with a crying baby or waking baby, and got sometimes 'comments' from my unsuspecting HB, but I did not find myself in this situation willingly, nor did ever I plan to let my kid 'academically underbuilt' CIO!

Sometimes when a kid cries nothing you can do to comfort (eg mine at 7-8 montths in supermarket, so that was 'getting necessary shopping over with ASAP and get OUT! (or leave without even buying necessities ' the reason was his suddenly hating the supermarket and all the people around . Everyone looking and commenting, and talking to him, making it worse! Next time he felt perfectly happy in the shopping cart  Pfff.

LinaLina supporting







,








21m old







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3,5y old








kids







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cat







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HB








HB


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tubulidentata2* 
I have mainstream friends who are otherwise great parents, yet somehow are not bothered by CIO. They casually mention that it only took 45 minutes the first night, and then only 5 or so thereafter.

It's really quite surprising that CIO isn't actually controversial at all for many people. It's not viewed as a last-resort, desperate measure (in which case I still don't agree with it, but can empathize, I suppose) - it's viewed as necessary "training" to ensure babies are able to "put themselves to sleep" and "self-settle" etc etc








:


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

My sister in law does that CIO bs. I hate it, and they had the nerve to call me at nap time- while my niece was screaming in her cage and I was silently crying. My milk would let down every time, and I finally had to ask that they not call if my niece was crying like that.

They now have a toddler that is emotionally disconnected, ANGRY, defiant, and to top it all off she won't tell her mom anything- she will wait for my brother (and he's not much better) to get home. They had a neighbor that was beating her up (she isn't 3 yet!) and her mom saw what was happening, called the neighbor to another room and disciplined him, and my niece wouldn't tell her anything. My brother asked the girl and she told him. Show's how much distrust she now has for her mother.

You know, some CIO children do go to bed well, however they don't express themselves and they have learned distrust at a very crucial age. Be glad that you toddler is free enough to say "Hey! I'm too little for this....I NEED you!" and be glad that you know how to listen. Just another form of love, if you ask me.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

30 minutes would be consider a great success by mainstream folk. It's the 'stubborn' ones that take hours.







:


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

30 minutes is standard CIO. I did witness a friend of mine CIO her little 5 months old dd, while mine was nursing away happily the whole evening. It was soooo heartbreaking, the poor thing cried and cried... the mom would go and pick her up then put her down every 10 min.. otherwise she would shut the door so we could have dinner... it went on for at least 40 min... and they had to do this for a month.... arrggghhh..... She was sorry for her little girl, but she was convinced it was the only way... like macca says, for her own good, and yeah, years after this, her kids sleep better than mine, they always always are in bed at exactly 8 o' clock every night, they do not go to mom and dad's bed at night and so on.... she achieved a lot in those evenings that she was without her kids, for herself, her husband and the community... Her relationship to her husband is still very romantic, they really have every night for one another, and it has been that way non-stop... even when their 3 kids were really little... She also could do night time courses and advance professionally. Straighten up her house so no need to spend money on cleaners. Had lots of friends over with no fear of disturbing the kids... In spite of all these goodies, how can anyone do that, I do not know. I still cannot hear my kid cry at any time without running to comfort them and they're 5 and 6. I On the other hand, another mom CIOed the baby and now he has a toddler bed he is out of the toddler bed and around the flat as soon as she puts him down.... so all that crying was also for nothing .. just so sad


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## babymaggie (Nov 11, 2007)

I think it is just horrible to let a little one CIO. I can't bear to hear my 9 month old cry for any reason. I really don't understand how anyone can listen to their baby scream and do nothing. It is frustrating! I am at my wit's end with my baby not sleeping, but would never let him CIO. And all I hear every day is how I will eventually not have a choice if I want him to sleep. People are crazy...







:
Emily


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## ahdoula (Sep 5, 2006)

My LO was CIO in arms this week due to a pacifier weaning







She did great and spent more time nursing then crying! But when she WAS crying I kept thinking the neighbors were going to call child protective services on us or something. It FELT so horrible and I was holding her! Making a baby/child CIO out ALONE sounds like grounds for removal if you ask me.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

10 months is old compared to what a lot of people do. I have known parents to use it on teeny tiny newborns.


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

:


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

These threads on CIO make me so sad








: I probably shouldn't even read them. 30 minutes? 45 minutes? How can they stand it?


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

on the mainstream board I go to, someone posted recently about having to use an industrial fan to block out the noise of her child, who CIO for 3 hours. THREE HOURS!


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Its sad...and its quite common









What really worries me though is that 'these' mothers spend so much time and money doing research and buying the best buggy, cot, bouncer chair, swing, clothes, etc.... But when it come to this. They dont think. They dont research. They just do it. And if they are not sure...they will only ask 'How do you do it?' (yet - on a side not - when it comes to 'my parenting' techniques, they want 'proof' and 'research' thats its 'better/good/etc'...but wont even think twice about leaving their child to cry like that!!!....it makes me so frustrated, angry and sad all at the same time! ugh!!!)


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## seoul_mama (Jul 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AoifesMom* 
On my mainstream message board today one mother posted advice she got from her pediatrician regarding her 10 month old daughter. He says at this age a baby should not need to nurse at night so when baby wakes she should check her after two minutes of crying. If all seems ok, how can it be ok if baby is crying







:, leave her to cry. He recommends checking on her every 30 minutes until she finally puts herself back to sleep.

I cannot believe anyone every lets their child cry themselves to sleep, but
I didn't realize anyone was cruel enough to let them cry alone in the dark for 30 minutes at a time! Is this standard for CIO. I always knew it wasn't an option for me so I didn't research how it is done. It seems like abuse, especially for that length of time!


YES, this is the way of mainstream pediatrics! when ds was 4mo, his pediatrian scolded and reprimanded me and dh for cospleeing. she EMPHATICALLY encouraged us to discontinue cosleeping AND to have ds sleep in his own room. The ped didn't call it cio, but instead "sleep training" as if that makes it better and more official sounding. The ped said that we should've started at 3mo, so that ds could SLOWLY get use to putting himself to sleep. And in her scolding tone said that just because we're behind in schedule doesn't mean that we can't catch up. When I told her that we were not interested in sleep training, she said that we can really hurt our baby bc cosleeping can be dangerous. She also said "you'll be sorry" while literally shaking her finger like we were toddlers. Clearly this is a sensitive topic for me... I beleive that peds need to practice more discretion around disseminating what they believe are the "right" parenting choices. Our ped made our lives miserable and made us feel like terrible parents.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

yeah, that's pretty standard. although lots of people check at more frequent intervals, at least to start with. 30 minutes sounds like a long time to me. a lot can happen in 30 minutes.

also, it bugs the everloving crap out of me when pedis tell people that their kids should no longer need to nurse after x age, that they're no longer hungry. if i can be hungry in the middle of the night at age 28, who's to say a baby can't? and how can a pedi (or ANYONE) possibly EVER know if someone else is hungry? it's just not possible to know that!!!


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## AGierald (Sep 5, 2007)

im glad to know im not the only one who just couldnt do this... i couldnt even do it when i babysat as a teenager and the kids cried... i'd always go get them right away! (well, unless they cried for like literally 30 seconds and then went back to sleep, thats different, ya know?)

i just dont understand how people can do it...







:


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## texanatheart (Sep 10, 2007)

CIO truly breaks my heart. A good friend of mine swears by it, though when they moved, when their baby girl is sick, etc, then she and her dh "allow" dd to sleep in their bed. She talks about how they have to get her used to sleeping by herself again once things are settled.







: I feel so sad for her baby girl. She also weaned her at 4 months so she could 'have her body back'. She thinks I'm a loon for sleeping with my ds...and breastfeeding...and delaying solids...etc...etc...

An older friend of mine (who co-slept with her babies forever), tells me every once in a while of how her brother and sil used to LOCK THE DOOR to their little girl's room so that she couldn't come in to bother them. She would scratch at the door trying to get out. All because their doctor told them to.







:







:







: Needless to say at age 18 she is VERY emotionally scarred. As an older child, she used to gnaw on the backs of her hands. Sorry to tell that awful story, and it's quite extreme, but it goes to show how much damage it can do to an otherwise beautiful life


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

The worst story I have ever heard was an aquaintance of mine who left her ^6 WEEK OLD PREMATURE baby to cry. She said "That's it, I"m putting you on a schedule. And do you know that that little girl, not even eight pounds, cried for THREE HOURS! She's so stubborn. It was better the next night, it only took a week and a half."







: Poor little thing was probably hungry!


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seoul_mama* 
I beleive that peds need to practice more discretion around disseminating what they believe are the "right" parenting choices. Our ped made our lives miserable and made us feel like terrible parents.

i am so sorry Seoul Mama! I really wonder why pediatricians do that. I am not Catholic, but the church around here does a lot, a lot for educating parents re. CIO. The local authority's departments in charge of young children and health make a point about sending you very detailed CIO guides as soon as you're back home from the hospital with the baby. It is such a conspiracy. It is horrible, especially that for me it was a sacrifice to spend so much so much time parenting my kids to sleep and it was not easy on so many levels yk and plus evey mom around me was CIO and had plenty of time to themselves.... but for all this I am so, so happy I never let them cry...


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## syn_ack89 (Oct 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
Its sad...and its quite common









What really worries me though is that 'these' mothers spend so much time and money doing research and buying the best buggy, cot, bouncer chair, swing, clothes, etc.... But when it come to this. They dont think. They dont research. They just do it. And if they are not sure...they will only ask 'How do you do it?' (yet - on a side not - when it comes to 'my parenting' techniques, they want 'proof' and 'research' thats its 'better/good/etc'...but wont even think twice about leaving their child to cry like that!!!....it makes me so frustrated, angry and sad all at the same time! ugh!!!)

Ask her to provide YOU with "proof" and "research" about CIO. And her doctor "telling her to" doesn't count. That might change her mind (or likely not, but at least you tried!).


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## JoyofBirth (Mar 16, 2004)

Yeah, I've heard that 30 minutes is a good timeframe from many people who CIO. I have one kinda friend who told me that her ds1 cried for 3 hours the first night and after a while she had to put in earplugs. He was 3 months old. It breaks my heart. I sometimes feel jealous of all my friends and their babies who instantly go to sleep when they are put in a crib and sleep for 12 hours undisturbed, until I see all our kids together and realize how much different my kids temperments are overall. They need me, they love me, they trust me. They're little, it's in the survival instincts.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
The worst story I have ever heard was an aquaintance of mine who left her ^6 WEEK OLD PREMATURE baby to cry. She said "That's it, I"m putting you on a schedule. And do you know that that little girl, not even eight pounds, cried for THREE HOURS! She's so stubborn. It was better the next night, it only took a week and a half."







: Poor little thing was probably hungry!











That is really, really horrible.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AoifesMom* 
I cannot believe anyone every lets their child cry themselves to sleep, but I didn't realize anyone was cruel enough to let them cry alone in the dark for 30 minutes at a time!

Of course they're not crying alone in the dark- in a room with a nightlight! And how can they be "alone" in a cribful of cuddly toys? [/sacrasm]

At least the dr recomends checking them after 2 minutes, and then every 30 thereafter, to minimize the chance of the parents missing something seriously wrong with the baby.

I remember an aquaintance telling me about letting her 5mo baby cry for 2+ hours completely alone, and how he only cried an hour the 2nd and 30 minutes the 3rd before he finally gave up and turned to his crib bumper for comfort instead of his mother. And how he didn't sleep the whole week they were out of town because they didn't pack the crib bumper. At age 4 he still took the bumper w/ him everywhere, and still slept w/it every night at age 6. She did NOT see the connection between CIO and his obsession w/ this object.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I had so many jealous feelings about other's whose babies went to sleep so easily and slept the whole night through. I knew there was a huge price to pay, but the outcome seemed so delicious compared to my chronic state of extreme sleep-deprivation.

Now that my oldest is nearly 5 and my youngest is 1.5, I can look back at those early months and am so happy that I responded immediately to my babes at every turn. The results speak for themselves...my kiddos have no fear of going to bed and they know that if they need us day or night, we're there.

I know that I'll sleep better...some day! And that's enough to know for now. The most important thing is that my kids feel safe and secure and know they can count on me no matter what. I think it's the greatest gift.


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## Naturalway (Sep 8, 2006)

How sad. It really makes me sick







. I've heard a similar stories many times before. I wish people wouldn't listen to their dumb doctors.


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## Amber Rose (Nov 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 

also, it bugs the everloving crap out of me when pedis tell people that their kids should no longer need to nurse after x age, that they're no longer hungry. if i can be hungry in the middle of the night at age 28, who's to say a baby can't? and how can a pedi (or ANYONE) possibly EVER know if someone else is hungry? it's just not possible to know that!!!


UGH SERIOUSLY. I wake up hungry in the middle of the night ALL THE TIME. So why shouldn't I expect the same from the little one?


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## eriu5 (Jul 31, 2007)

That crib bumper story made me cry...it makes me want to go wake up my DS and hold him! Someone actually told me to Ferber-ize my 4 MONTH OLD!!!!! I about choked when they suggested it and did not even know what to say. I don't think I want to be friends with these people anymore!


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## LilWin (Apr 25, 2007)

It's so sad.







: I remember when my sister was a baby and she was crying, I went to my mom who was in the kitchen and told her the baby was crying, and she said: "let her cry, it's good for her lungs."







:
I just don't know how a mom can ignore her instincts, especially with a newborn. Just now, my DS was crying while I was changing a diaper on DD. I felt so bad he had to cry till DD had her diaper on.


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## mama_lola (Jul 4, 2007)

It's sickening.
 






:

Someone just posted on my mainstream birthboard this morning about how her ped told her that her baby doesn't need to eat at night and she is just going to let her "scream all she wants" tonight, despite the babe acting "starving" and eating an 8 oz bottle when she wakes up. Our babies are only 6 months old.







It's terrible and I feel sorry for all these poor babes.


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## JavaFinch (May 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AoifesMom* 
On my mainstream message board today one mother posted advice she got from her pediatrician regarding her 10 month old daughter. He says at this age a baby should not need to nurse at night so when baby wakes she should check her after two minutes of crying. If all seems ok, how can it be ok if baby is crying







:, leave her to cry. He recommends checking on her every 30 minutes until she finally puts herself back to sleep.

I cannot believe anyone every lets their child cry themselves to sleep, but
I didn't realize anyone was cruel enough to let them cry alone in the dark for 30 minutes at a time! Is this standard for CIO. I always knew it wasn't an option for me so I didn't research how it is done. It seems like abuse, especially for that length of time!


It's been a long time since DS was a baby but I remember them giving me this 'advice', along with telling me that I could even expect my child to VOMIT because they were crying so hard but that it was somehow OK and after a couple nights of this, he'd be sleeping through the night.

I don't even know how many well-child checks I'm going to go to this time if my baby is healthy, because as I remember, a LOT of their advice was not good - including them telling you to WEAN off breastmilk right at a year to cow's milk and also very mainstream carseat advice (to turn baby at 20 lbs and a year, for example.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

It makes me so mad. I allowed my mom to take my DD for one night about a month ago. When I went to pick her up the next day, i knew something was different. We went somewhere and by the time we got home, my DD was sleeping. I tried to move her to her bed asleep, but she woke up. So I brought her downstairs with me. When my sister (16y/o) saw her she asked why she wasn't sleeping. I said she woke up (duh!). She asked why i didn't leave her up there to sleep,
I said "she woke up" (duh again)
"so why not just leave her there. she is tired"
"Leave her to....."
"let her cry. She is tired"
I was livid. "we do NOT leave her ALONE in her bed CRYING for ANY reason. Would you like it if I left you to cry in your bed alone in the middle of the day?"
I am sure she felt like crap after that, but it was necessary. I reiterated to my mom later that we do not believe in CIO and if she couldn't get my DD to sleep any other way, she would not be allowed to have her overnight again. Idiots. I was so pissed. My mom later told me how "bad" she had been that night because she woke (gasp) 2 times. I was like, really only 2 times, she normally does 3-5 for us.

Since then, in a bit more than a month, she is going to bed with out a fuss. She is asleep every night at 8pm + or - 15 mins. She sleeps mostly thought the night and only wakes once to eat. My mom thinks it is because she let her CIO. I hate her for that. i believe it is because she is finally ready for it. She will be a year old tomorrow.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JavaFinch* 
It's been a long time since DS was a baby but I remember them giving me this 'advice', along with telling me that I could even expect my child to VOMIT because they were crying so hard but that it was somehow OK and after a couple nights of this, he'd be sleeping through the night.

Yeah, I've heard that too. That the more "fiesty" babies may even vomit from the crying and all you do is go in, wipe them down without making any eye contact, and leave the room again









Quote:

I don't even know how many well-child checks I'm going to go to this time if my baby is healthy, because as I remember, a LOT of their advice was not good - including them telling you to WEAN off breastmilk right at a year to cow's milk and also very mainstream carseat advice (to turn baby at 20 lbs and a year, for example.
Yeah, I was told to supplement with formula when DD was a newborn, because she wanted to feed too frequently







:


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seoul_mama* 
YES, this is the way of mainstream pediatrics! when ds was 4mo, his pediatrian scolded and reprimanded me and dh for cospleeing. she EMPHATICALLY encouraged us to discontinue cosleeping AND to have ds sleep in his own room. The ped didn't call it cio, but instead "sleep training" as if that makes it better and more official sounding. The ped said that we should've started at 3mo, so that ds could SLOWLY get use to putting himself to sleep. And in her scolding tone said that just because we're behind in schedule doesn't mean that we can't catch up. When I told her that we were not interested in sleep training, she said that we can really hurt our baby bc cosleeping can be dangerous. She also said "you'll be sorry" while literally shaking her finger like we were toddlers. Clearly this is a sensitive topic for me... I beleive that peds need to practice more discretion around disseminating what they believe are the "right" parenting choices. Our ped made our lives miserable and made us feel like terrible parents.

I hope you fired that pediatrician.







:


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## seoul_mama (Jul 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gaialice* 
i am so sorry Seoul Mama! I really wonder why pediatricians do that. I am not Catholic, but the church around here does a lot, a lot for educating parents re. CIO. The local authority's departments in charge of young children and health make a point about sending you very detailed CIO guides as soon as you're back home from the hospital with the baby. It is such a conspiracy. It is horrible, especially that for me it was a sacrifice to spend so much so much time parenting my kids to sleep and it was not easy on so many levels yk and plus evey mom around me was CIO and had plenty of time to themselves.... but for all this I am so, so happy I never let them cry...

Thanks for this gaialice. I've been trying to figure this out and perhaps you have a better understanding of this... that is, what is the benefit of cio? It's clear, for instance, that major corps like nestle campaign aggressively to discourage women from bf, in order for the corps to make $$$$. So who is it that's making money off of cio? Here's the thing... I step back and REALLY look at this question and one possible reason comes to mind. Simply, in a capitalistic society, every individual is responsible for his/her fate. Therefore, if you're sleep deprived bc of your baby, then you're not at the top of your game which, in turn, might lead to loss of job, loss of promotions, etc... So then cio is seen as helping parents to sleep so that they can be on top of their game. But then I think... this makes absolutely NO sense! While there might be long stretches of all-nighters, I still think I get more sleep than the average cio family... am I wrong?


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## sdm1024 (Sep 4, 2006)

Quote:

What really worries me though is that 'these' mothers spend so much time and money doing research and buying the best buggy, cot, bouncer chair, swing, clothes, etc.... But when it come to this. They dont think. They dont research. They just do it. And if they are not sure...they will only ask 'How do you do it?' (yet - on a side not - when it comes to 'my parenting' techniques, they want 'proof' and 'research' thats its 'better/good/etc'...but wont even think twice about leaving their child to cry like that!!!....it makes me so frustrated, angry and sad all at the same time! ugh!!!)
I completely agree.

I've just stopped talking to the mainstream about co-sleeping anymore, beacuse I can't understand thier thinking and disconnect from their own children.

Ok, and here's a little OT vent.....since when did Pediatricians become the authority on everything related to parenting????? I can't stand when an MD tells me how to parent my children.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

what makes me sicker is the people who cosleep for the first few months when it's convenient for them, then introduce them to this cold, lonely "cage" and don't even do anything to help them adjust. I know several people to go straight from cosleeping to CIO in a crib, in their own room, because cosleeping wasn't convenient anymore. How horrible to make them feel safe and secure, then ruin it all. Yuck.


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## Eben'sMama (Jun 29, 2006)

I can't take these CIO threads. They just hurt my heart.


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## AutumnMelody (Feb 10, 2006)

I once had a nurse tell me that I needed to leave my baby to cry because he was over 10 lbs. and should therefore be able to sleep through the night without a problem. In her mind he had absolutely no excuse to wake for any reason at that point. He was around 4 weeks old at the time.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AutumnMelody* 
I once had a nurse tell me that I needed to leave my baby to cry because he was over 10 lbs. and should therefore be able to sleep through the night without a problem. In her mind he had absolutely no excuse to wake for any reason at that point. He was around 4 weeks old at the time.

Yikes! What about babies who are born at 10 lbs?


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtwice* 
Yikes! What about babies who are born at 10 lbs?

or babies who are born at over 10 pounds? were they supposed to be STTN in utero? and if they weren't, were their moms supposed to leave them in there to cry all alone?


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

At around 6 months, the ped tried to tell us we "had" to do at leat some CIO at that age. I said No. I told her I was quite alright with the interrupted sleep and that I had not asked for her opinion or advice on sleeping issues. She dropped it right away, but it makes me so sad to think of how many parents she's probably said that to.


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## funkygranolamama (Aug 10, 2005)

when i was young and dumb a doctor told me to cio with my first child. i wasn't getting sleep because i was formula feeding (and i'm not downing formula for those of you who must do it, but i could have breastfed had there been support there) and was up most of the night making bottles. a doctor told me that i needed my sleep and i should put the baby in a crib and let her cry. the first night i put her in there and sat outside for about 15 minutes and let her cry....while i cried right outside the door. i think she knew i was there. my dh came out of the bedroom and i said "i can't do this". i got her out of there and never forced her in there again. i can't believe people recommend cio. i think the key is educating those who don't know there are other options, which sometimes may involved sticking our noses in where they don't belong. but hey, if that protects a baby from suffrage, i'm all for it. i wish someone had stuck their nose in my business.


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## Nerdzilla78 (Jan 1, 2007)

Our old pediatrician told us we needed to sleep train and get the baby out of our bed. I looked her right in the eye and said, "I'm raising a baby, not training a dog. All of us sleep better this way, it's working, let it be." She harped on it for a while, and eventually I ended the appt. This, along with some MAJOR medical mistakes, led to us finding our current pediatrician. He's awesome.. fully supports our cosleeping, amongst other things.


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## pumpkinyum (Mar 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yarngoddess* 
while my niece was screaming in her cage


Um....they put her in a cage???


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

A crib has bars and stuff, like a cage.

A crib doesn't have to be a cage, of course, but if a baby is left in it to CIO, I can definitely see how it can become one.

Everytime I feel that chubby hand against me and I hear the baby snorts and cuddle with my perfect family, I am so glad I didn't listen to the CIO-advocates. They are truly missing out on one of the most enjoyable experiences.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
what makes me sicker is the people who cosleep for the first few months when it's convenient for them, then introduce them to this cold, lonely "cage" and don't even do anything to help them adjust. I know several people to go straight from cosleeping to CIO in a crib, in their own room, because cosleeping wasn't convenient anymore. How horrible to make them feel safe and secure, then ruin it all. Yuck.

I detest this too. I actually have more time for the babywisers. At least they are consistent. I have NO problem with sleeping separately but to cosleep and then POOF one day decide it's 'cold turkey' in the crib just makes me sick. And it's more and more common as cosleeping with newborns becomes more acceptable.







:


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## baileyandmikey (Jan 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipmummy* 
It makes me want to vomitt









me too!


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
or babies who are born at over 10 pounds? were they supposed to be STTN in utero? and if they weren't, were their moms supposed to leave them in there to cry all alone?








































How would they learn to be independent otherwise?! Don't you know how important self-soothing is?


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## AwakenedMama (Apr 16, 2007)

Wow, how sad. I'm glad I read this thread, though. I haven't ever been in the home of someone who was CIO at the time, but if I am now, I would definitely say something and have to leave if they didn't help the baby. How can people do this??

Our daughter cries in the car seat sometimes, and it is so hard for us. It's often when she's tired, so if we have a long trip, we try to give her 5 minutes to see if she falls asleep and if not we pull over and get her out for a break. And we can barely make that. It's so hard on us and her, but we haven't figured out a better solution. I can't imagine doing that for sleep!

And, for what it's worth, we love bedsharing. We all sleep great. She wakes partially many times to nurse, and I wake partially, and we all get our rest and she gets her nutrition. And in the morning, I have no idea how many times she woke. I'm sorry that some mamas here don't have as good of an experience as their friends who CIO do with sleep. I wouldn't trade the co-sleeping experience for anything.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

My dh said this against CIO:

"If my dog is barking, I'll go see what's wrong and what he needs. Why wouldn't I do the same thing for a crying baby?"

I thought that was a good point!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
My dh said this against CIO:

"If my dog is barking, I'll go see what's wrong and what he needs. Why wouldn't I do the same thing for a crying baby?"

I thought that was a good point!









:

but then again, people are notorious for treating their pets better than their kids. i mean, people sleep with their pets all the time, but sleeping with your kids is creepy, dependence-promoting and borderline incestuous!







:


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 







:

but then again, people are notorious for treating their pets better than their kids. i mean, people sleep with their pets all the time, but sleeping with your kids is creepy, dependence-promoting and borderline incestuous!







:

Most people are against hitting animals as well


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

I can barely even talk to other mothers with young children (especially ones with little bitty babies) anymore as all the talk of CIO, baby training and other things foreign to me just make me feel ill. It seems to be all they talk about; makes me wonder if they really are secure in their choices.. Sure I'm jealous their babies sleep (heck, I still have a job with my 3 and 5 year old and they still sleep with us), but if the sleep comes at that cost, it's not worth it.


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## cheygirl (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eben'sMama* 























I can't take these CIO threads. They just hurt my heart.

I"m feeling the same way Eben'sMama. Don't think I can read any more of these threads. The crib bumper story just did me in.







: I'm going to bed to cuddle with my baby.


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## Breastfeeding Insomniac (Jan 15, 2007)

It truly makes me so sad that MD's give this advice. Even sadder that moms listen to it. I believe in responding to all of their needs and this is what I encourage when working w/ new parents.


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## milliegirl (Apr 3, 2006)

Ugh, CIO just makes me sick to my stomach. Literally, I get a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. I cannot understand it, and don't understand why it isn't considered child abuse (or at least neglect). I've heard so many people *brag* about it - like it is some badge of honor, like they *won* the *battle* with their LO.







You would have to hold me down to keep me from responding to my DD when she is upset. It is just primal and instinctive. Funny thing is, there is so much emphasis on teaching babies (not just kids, but BABIES) to be *independent*, and my DD at 1 y/o is very outgoing and independent BECAUSE she is secure, attached and knows Mama is responsive to her needs. I wish ppl understood that CIO has the opposite effect







:

OK, stepping off my soapbox now. Guess this touched a nerve


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## locksmama (Jun 7, 2007)

Even though we are having our issues with co-sleeping I wouldn't trade cuddling her for the world. That is the hard thing to understand if you've never done it. You truly don't know what you are missing...it's sad. I don't think folks get that parenting is a nighttime and daytime job just like the Sears say. People want to stop parenting at bedtime and I understand why, but most of the time the right thing is the harder thing--but with the greatest rewards.
I finally got my last free issue of Parents mag and there was an article in there on co-sleeping that was a couple who co-slept but couldn't get the kid out of the bed . The author mentioned Dr. Sears and made him sound like an idiot. The article ended with co-sleeping in a good light after downing it the whole time. There was,of course, a box with all the scary co-sleeping stats from the AAP warning people not to do it. It pissed me off so bad. It made me so happy that I'm done getting it. It's like a mouthpiece for the AAP and they never have anything good to say about AP practices if and when they actually cover them. It makes me mad that they are misinforming everyone so badly. Of course, if you look at their ads you can see why they advocate what they do. Its simply and infuriating mag!
::::deep breath:::
Our ped was in great light for me until he addressed some of my questions with CIO answers. I just ignore that advice. He's cool with my ECing as she has pooped in her potty right in front of him, but he's off with the sleep thing!
I wish I could find a ped that was a Dr. Sears!!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *seoul_mama* 
Thanks for this gaialice. I've been trying to figure this out and perhaps you have a better understanding of this... that is, what is the benefit of cio? It's clear, for instance, that major corps like nestle campaign aggressively to discourage women from bf, in order for the corps to make $$$$. So who is it that's making money off of cio? Here's the thing... I step back and REALLY look at this question and one possible reason comes to mind. Simply, in a capitalistic society, every individual is responsible for his/her fate. Therefore, if you're sleep deprived bc of your baby, then you're not at the top of your game which, in turn, might lead to loss of job, loss of promotions, etc... So then cio is seen as helping parents to sleep so that they can be on top of their game. But then I think... this makes absolutely NO sense! While there might be long stretches of all-nighters, I still think I get more sleep than the average cio family... am I wrong?

I've wondered this myself. My ped always tells me that I should sleep-train, and that I'll be sorry. I wonder if it's because he's worried about children's safety? Maybe moms whose children won't sleep snap and beat them?

But also, he has children the same age as mine, and a lot of times I wonder if he just wants to justify what his family does.

As far as CIO goes, I agree it destroys children's trust. I've watched friend's kids who were CIOed, and they both were so freaked out about sleep. My kids have always napped and started the night in cribs, and I have always been able to lay them down in there. Even if they weren't sleepy, if I needed to go deal with a crisis, I could stick them in there and they'd be totally happy with it for a few minutes at least. Not so for CIO babies, because they're so afraid of being abandoned.


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## christy005 (Mar 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Of course they're not crying alone in the dark- in a room with a nightlight! And how can they be "alone" in a cribful of cuddly toys? [/sacrasm]

At least the dr recomends checking them after 2 minutes, and then every 30 thereafter, to minimize the chance of the parents missing something seriously wrong with the baby.

I remember an aquaintance telling me about letting her 5mo baby cry for 2+ hours completely alone, and how he only cried an hour the 2nd and 30 minutes the 3rd before he finally gave up and turned to his crib bumper for comfort instead of his mother. And how he didn't sleep the whole week they were out of town because they didn't pack the crib bumper. At age 4 he still took the bumper w/ him everywhere, and still slept w/it every night at age 6. She did NOT see the connection between CIO and his obsession w/ this object.

that's just so so sad







that poor little guy..







:


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bwylde* 
I can barely even talk to other mothers with young children (especially ones with little bitty babies) anymore as all the talk of CIO, baby training and other things foreign to me just make me feel ill. It seems to be all they talk about; makes me wonder if they really are secure in their choices..

I agree... it's really hard sometimes, especially because IRL, you can't say anything in opposition to CIO without coming across as the big bad judgmental meanie who's not respecting what "works for their families"


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

When it gets rough for me...like on certain nights when I really want my alone time...and ds is wide awake...instead of putting him in another room and letting him scream, I try to think that someday he is going to be 16 years old and won't want to cuddle with me at all. Someday I'm sure I'll look back and be happy for all the time we spent together nursing and cuddling.


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## lovingmykids (Nov 23, 2007)

I cannot imagine being able to sit and listen to my baby cry. It would be heartbreaking!


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## Kimono (Aug 29, 2004)

You'd think that with babies protesting so much, parents would begin to understand that babies are biologically wired to seek proximity to a parent at night. It's not all about hunger. They don't know they are safe in a house. For all they know, they are in danger from predators, as would have been true for any baby sleeping alone for most of history. Our modern babies still have stone age brains in many ways.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kate's Mommy* 
You'd think that with babies protesting so much, parents would begin to understand that babies are biologically wired to seek proximity to a parent at night. It's not all about hunger. They don't know they are safe in a house. For all they know, they are in danger from predators, as would have been true for any baby sleeping alone for most of history. Our modern babies still have stone age brains in many ways.









:

But the problem is, the mainstream advice, which is repeated ad nauseum to new parents, is all about the importance of teaching baby to "self-settle" which is really nothing more than teaching baby that no one will respond to your cries, so don't bother.

Oh and every magazine and book out there has ominous warnings about allowing baby to fall asleep while breastfeeding or being cuddled. Because heaven forbid a baby associates nurturing and parental love with sleep! Best to keep it as lonely and unpleasant as possible







:


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## chumani (Apr 12, 2002)

When I was a new mama to my first babe my dad was going on and on about letting her cry it out, he talked about how he would hold my mom back from going to her babies, and that crying is good for the lungs etc., fortunately I had just read a great comeback and he hasn't said anything since (6 babies later) I told him "crying is as good for the lungs as bleeding is for the veins". I haven't heard anything about cio from them since.

I was also at a baby shower a couple years ago where the women were talking about co-sleeping and one of them had seen on some morning news program that supposedly, 25% of sids babies died co-sleeping everyone started talking about how they would never sleep with their babies because of that until I asked them where they thought the other 75% died, most likely in their cribs!

Our 11, 9, 7 and 5yo still come in occasionally with a bad dream and always know that they are welcome to wake us for something they need. Our 3 and 1yo of course are still co-sleeping. I am so grateful to see how meeting our children's needs has made them confident and independent. I am also glad to see that my 11yo hasn't followed her peers in attitude toward her uss. She still likes us unlike how some of her acquaintances feel toward their parents.

I try to be respectful of others but am always firm in conversation about my stance on co-sleeping and meeting my babies/childrens needs.

Sarah


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tubulidentata2* 
I have mainstream friends who are otherwise great parents, yet somehow are not bothered by CIO. They casually mention that it only took 45 minutes the first night, and then only 5 or so thereafter. Forty-five seems to be the magic number, perhaps how long it takes to alter the baby's brain







. Unfortunately, they now have toddlers who go to sleep far more easily than mine does, so my leading by example isn't doing much good.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *macca* 
It's really quite surprising that CIO isn't actually controversial at all for many people. It's not viewed as a last-resort, desperate measure (in which case I still don't agree with it, but can empathize, I suppose) - it's viewed as necessary "training" to ensure babies are able to "put themselves to sleep" and "self-settle" etc etc








:

CIO advocates are just _weird_ seriously... wacky in the brain... to deny one's most _basic_ instincts, and _not_ go to the child one has birthed from her own body when that child is clearly showing need... insane... seriously nuts. "Well it really sucked, and it was hard, and I cried all night myself and my dh held me while I cried and helped keep me from running in... but we made it... It took everything I had not to run it to him as he screamed, and it took a few days... Now why is Jr. so angry and prone to total tantrums so often as he approaches toddler-hood? Why does he ignore me when I am talking to him? Huh... I just don't get it." Seriously, just a snap-shot of a real conversation with a formerly close friend.







:

I have had a couple of friendships _end_ because of the CIO myth; I cannot condone that kind of ignorance. I can't keep my mouth shut... literally, I sit with my mouth open staring in shock and horror when people tell me of their Victorious CIO Plan, and regale the agony and effectiveness of this "method" (ummm, torture?)... Ugh!







:

Call me judgemental... in this case I am.







: But save for the rare instance when a parent is so close to losing it that they are desperate and have no option but to put up their hands and walk away for a moment _rather_ than making an unfortunate decision to the detriment of her child... there is no reason _anyone_ (including my pediatritian FIL) can give me that will ever justify CIO.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.


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## PhillyMama (Nov 3, 2007)

I am so glad to have found this site.

In my family, I am considered a "freak" because we co-sleep and my 21-mo-old is still bf-ing.
My SIL had a baby in August and she had that poor boy on such a tight schedule (because she "has a life" - her words) that he is always crying and can be hard to soothe. Once I was holding him, trying to calm him and he started to root on my shirt. I told SIL he was hungry and she said "no he can't be he has 20 minutes until his next meal" (he's formula fed). I was sooooo tempted to pop him on and feed him but she would've been horrified.
They also CIO at night and I make sure I leave their house before he goes to bed because I can't stand to be there. It's akin to neglect, for me.
Oh, this SIL also had no idea that babies go through 'growth spurts' and thought he was just "a little pig" (her words again). I've come very very close to asking why on earth she even had a baby since she does after all "have a life" but have bitten my tongue for the sake of family harmony.

Sigh.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

It's tempting to try CIO every night for this house, I haven't given in, even when DS is waking 5 times a night, and it's driving me insane. DS is 17 mos. and there's nothing wrong with him, he just doesn't sleep. Sometimes DH and I MUST take five and usually we walk into the next room to pray and hold each other. two minutes later we come back. it's just a sanity break, but it still leaves me feeling guilty. And I feel judgemental about this too, because anyone who has a sleeper andtries to offer me advice has no idea how lucky they are. I usually change the subject.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
CIO advocates are just _weird_ seriously... wacky in the brain... to deny one's most _basic_ instincts, and _not_ go to the child one has birthed from her own body when that child is clearly showing need... insane... seriously nuts. "Well it really sucked, and it was hard, and I cried all night myself and my dh held me while I cried and helped keep me from running in... but we made it... It took everything I had not to run it to him as he screamed, and it took a few days...

The fact that it is _physically_ difficult to ignore a crying baby should really tell them something









There are also "sleep trainers" you can hire and "sleep schools" for babies over three months (lots of people absolutely swear by them), and the idea is basically to provide parents with support to get them through the initial phase of CIO - because heaven forbid a mother should "weaken" and respond to her child's cries


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I have mainstream friends who are otherwise great parents, yet somehow are not bothered by CIO.
This is my brother and my SIL. There (at the time) 4 month old can be screaming his head off they can have a bottle all ready for him (FF) but is its not "time" they just let him scream. SIL is good about rocking him to sleep but if he wakes any time during the night (minus his one feeding) they let him cry.. He sleeps in the same room as them (in a crib) but still they just ingnore the cries I really don't get it.
I was luck to have a PEd who not only encouraged me to always respond but supported my breastfeeding for as long as I did. (4 years)

D


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
It's tempting to try CIO every night for this house, I haven't given in, even when DS is waking 5 times a night, and it's driving me insane. DS is 17 mos. and there's nothing wrong with him, he just doesn't sleep. Sometimes DH and I MUST take five and usually we walk into the next room to pray and hold each other. two minutes later we come back. it's just a sanity break, but it still leaves me feeling guilty. And I feel judgemental about this too, because anyone who has a sleeper andtries to offer me advice has no idea how lucky they are. I usually change the subject.

Hugs... I can relate till we got a bot had a diagnoisis and help for my supply issues and latter DD sensory and apraxia issues we went through so VERY hard sleep times and yes I know VERY much that need to get a break a VERY real as in you might unintentionally but really hurt your child if you don't. When slinging didn't help nor did anything else it wasn't an I want to abbandon you it was a set her down in a safe place and take 2 mintues to lock yourself in the bathroom so you can pray and cry (cause of the guilt) I do completely underrstand.. I totally differ from a true CIO wher you are delebertly seperating your self so that they just figure out your not comming.


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *macca* 
The fact that it is _physically_ difficult to ignore a crying baby should really tell them something









There are also "sleep trainers" you can hire and "sleep schools" for babies over three months (lots of people absolutely swear by them), and the idea is basically to provide parents with support to get them through the initial phase of CIO - because heaven forbid a mother should "weaken" and respond to her child's cries









What about support for the child? No one is running in to see why they are screaming their heads off.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

I think that it is sadly ironic that parents who are doing CIO need so much "support" to get through it.

Who is supporting the baby?

I once heard someone give the advice to a newly-CIO'ing mom to "drink a glass of wine, you'll need it". What about the baby? Where's his wine?


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tammyswanson* 
What about support for the child? No one is running in to see why they are screaming their heads off.









Wow, jinx!


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## trystrid (Aug 17, 2006)

I just don't understand how these parents do it, period. Hearing my daughter cry makes my whole body twist up and I feel sick if I can't get to her soon enough (like if I'm stuck in the bathroom







).

I've stopped telling the truth when asked if DD is sleeping through the night. If I say "No, she's still waking up about 4-5 times to nurse" then I get told I'm being manipulated and that I should start letting her CIO. It's lovely getting advice (especially this kind of gruesome advice) when you're not even asking for it or complaining about the lack of sleep.


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## PhillyMama (Nov 3, 2007)

I heard something recently that makes so much sense -

"A need not met in infancy becomes a hole to fill in adulthood"

One of my LLL leaders said it and I can't remember who she was quoting but I think it's so true and I've repeated it to family & friends who can't understand why we don't CIO, etc.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texanatheart* 
Needless to say at age 18 she is VERY emotionally scarred. As an older child, she used to gnaw on the backs of her hands. Sorry to tell that awful story, and it's quite extreme, but it goes to show how much damage it can do to an otherwise beautiful life









You know this is not needless to say. I'm sorry I am not at all pro-CIO. I still cosleep with my two and five year old. It's not what I would do and it breaks my heart to read about tiny babies being left to cry. *But* as we've all said this is a very mainstream practice. Mainstream meaning many many people (the majority in fact) do this and yet not all these little kids are running around emotionally scarred and chewing on the backs of their hands. I am one of five children and we were all CIOed and none of us chewed on the baby of our hands. I think those kinds of long lasting side effects are actually pretty unusual and rare. And I think when we say things like that we lose possible converts because it seems so inflammatory and over the top and no one the person we're talking to has ever heard of such a thing so it's easy to dismiss us. I think the point should more be how much it sucks for the baby. How it feels for the baby and how it's just not right to treat such a young one that way rather than "oh your kid is going to be forever emotionally damaged if you do that" because quite honestly that's probably not true if the parents are otherwise loving and engaged. As we've said many parents aren't doing this callously they're doing it because they think the baby "needs" it. Now there are parents that to me the CIO is a symtom of their otherwise crappy parenting. These parents are in all things detattached. Fit the kids into their life instead of adapting their own life. I can easily believe these people have emotionally disturbed kids but who can pinpoint what part was due to the CIO and what part to the spanking and what part to feeling like they were an accessory for mom kwim?

And again I'm not saying CIO is good but I can't accepted that needless to say all kids who are CIOed and shut in their rooms are reduced to emotionally disturbed shells either.


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## granola_mom (Jun 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
on the mainstream board I go to, someone posted recently about having to use an industrial fan to block out the noise of her child, who CIO for 3 hours. THREE HOURS!

I literally bawled imagining this baby alone in the dark whose desperate cries were being blocked out by a huge loud fan







: I can't read any more. That is abuse... _neglect_. Period.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
And again I'm not saying CIO is good but I can't accepted that needless to say all kids who are CIOed and shut in their rooms are reduced to emotionally disturbed shells either.

of course not. but then, lots of kids are also spanked and hit and turn out NOT to be "emotionally disturbed shells." the point to me is that it's just not right to do certain things with and to your children, even if they are likely to turn out more or less okay anyhow.

and of course some kids are much more affected by these things, even in small doses, than others. and you just don't know whether your child, or any child, will be so affected. for example, maybe sleep training had no ill effects on you, but i'm convinced that being allowed to cry in my crib every night (even though my dad lay on the floor so i wouldn't "feel abandoned," but didn't pick me up--every night!) did do something to me. i hate going to bed, did when i was a kid, always have, still do, probably always will. it's always felt scary to me, and i refuse to believe this has nothing to do with CIO.

if i can keep my child from feeling that way about going to bed, i want to do that. it's a wonderful gift to give your child, good feelings about sleep--not to mention teaching them to trust their loved ones. i'm not very good at that either


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
of course not. but then, lots of kids are also spanked and hit and turn out NOT to be "emotionally disturbed shells." the point to me is that it's just not right to do certain things with and to your children, even if they are likely to turn out more or less okay anyhow.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole "well, my parents did blah-blah and I'm perfectly fine!" argument ... by nature, human beings are resilient and many have survived unspeakable horrors and, to the outside world, appear to be 'fine'.

We could beat our children and, chances are, they'd grow up to be functioning adults who don't appear obviously "damaged". But I think we can all accept, even the most hardcore mainstreamers included, that beating kids is wrong.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."










I was dumbfounded. I hung up with my mom, cleaned him off and changed him, and let him stay up and watch the movie with me. When his mom & dad got home, I quick ran him into his room and put him in the crib.

Can you imagine?? It totally changed my view of my mom.


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## MelanieMC (Jul 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magali* 
When it gets rough for me...like on certain nights when I really want my alone time...and ds is wide awake...instead of putting him in another room and letting him scream, I try to think that someday he is going to be 16 years old and won't want to cuddle with me at all. Someday I'm sure I'll look back and be happy for all the time we spent together nursing and cuddling.

That's exactly what I would be thinking about. They are only little for so long, why spend that time ignoring them and treating them like something they have to manage and train? Hold your babies tight, mamas!


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."

















:

There's a highly renowned Australian "sleep expert" who has given advice almost as awful for this scenario - she explains that the vomiting is nothing more than a manipulative technique of a more "fiesty" baby and that all you should do is go in, wipe them down, clean them up as efficiently as possible without making eye contact or offering any comfort and leave the room again.


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## babymaggie (Nov 11, 2007)

I don't know why I keep reading this thread. The stories are getting worse and worse.







:


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama* 
Wow, jinx!

Hee hee!


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."










I was dumbfounded. I hung up with my mom, cleaned him off and changed him, and let him stay up and watch the movie with me. When his mom & dad got home, I quick ran him into his room and put him in the crib.

Can you imagine?? It totally changed my view of my mom.

Wow...that is totally cruel! I'm so glad you cleaned the poor baby and picked them up...poor little thing! One year old is too young to do that sort of 'behavior modification'!


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## Margot Adler (Jun 2, 2007)

Its sad how mainstream cio is. My cousin (male, no child) told me at thanksgiving that if i continued to pick up my 5mo ds everytime he cried that he was going to learn that fussing= being picked up. i just replied that he ought to learn that because that is how we are parenting him and that he was smart to know that he would be comforted if he was upset.
no response.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I saw a mom letting her DD scream in KMart today for nearly that long. She said to the older woman with her (grandma?) "Oh, she's BOSSY!" She was a newborn, clearly. Then when she FINALLY picked her up she said "I will change your diaper if you just stop all this nonsence!"
I imagine it is likely she screams alot at night too.










This was a newborn?







:


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amber Rose* 
UGH SERIOUSLY. I wake up hungry in the middle of the night ALL THE TIME. So why shouldn't I expect the same from the little one?


Well, to be fair, there are children who do not nurse for hours at a time or wake up to eat several times a night. Mine never did. Usually they would nurse around midnight and then wake up about 6 or so to eat again, when they were around 2-3 mos old. Of course, there were nights when there was an extra time, usually around growth spurts, but usually they slept at least 6 hrs.

In fact, I had never heard of children literally being attached to a breast all night long before coming to this board. I am not knocking it, of course, but my experience was just different.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Margot Adler* 
Its sad how mainstream cio is. My cousin (male, no child) told me at thanksgiving that if i continued to pick up my 5mo ds everytime he cried that he was going to learn that fussing= being picked up.

Oh noes, a baby learning that his cries are going to be responded to!







:


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
Well, to be fair, there are children who do not nurse for hours at a time or wake up to eat several times a night. Mine never did. Usually they would nurse around midnight and then wake up about 6 or so to eat again, when they were around 2-3 mos old. Of course, there were nights when there was an extra time, usually around growth spurts, but usually they slept at least 6 hrs.

This was DD. I was in for a shock with DS!


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## Danielle1973 (Nov 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
30 minutes would be consider a great success by mainstream folk. It's the 'stubborn' ones that take hours.







:

that makes me sick that parents would say that







:


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## Nicole R. (Nov 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
It's tempting to try CIO every night for this house, I haven't given in ... there's nothing wrong with him, he just doesn't sleep.

I hear you. My guy is 27 months old and ever since he stopped nursing to sleep six months ago he takes an hour to fall asleep -- believe me, I'm sick and tired of sitting by his bed in the dark waiting for him to drop off, but what's my alternative? Letting him cry? That's no alternative.

A friend of mine in my very first playgroup (I've since moved on to a more philosophically aligned group) once let her one-year-old daughter cry alone in her crib for an hour and a half at naptime. When the little girl finally fell still, my friend went in to check on her. The girl was nearly unconscious with a very high fever and had blood coming out of her ear -- it turned out she had a terrible ear infection that my friend hadn't known about. My friend felt terrible -- but she didn't stop CIO. Man, I couldn't believe it!


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## BurgundyElephant (Feb 17, 2006)

Please tell me you posted some book suggestions to this Mama - No Cry Sleep Solution, etc. I can't even read other boards anymore.







:


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## FarmerCathy (Jun 28, 2005)

This site might not be helping either. I get thier weekly updates about what my toddler is learning to do at this age. Most of the time it is fine, but then there is this info that is thrown in with it too. http://www.babycenter.com/0_feedings...-years_3665.bc


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nicole R.* 

A friend of mine in my very first playgroup (I've since moved on to a more philosophically aligned group) once let her one-year-old daughter cry alone in her crib for an hour and a half at naptime. When the little girl finally fell still, my friend went in to check on her. The girl was nearly unconscious with a very high fever and had blood coming out of her ear -- it turned out she had a terrible ear infection that my friend hadn't known about. My friend felt terrible -- but she didn't stop CIO. Man, I couldn't believe it!



















Too sad for words


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

These people who do it seem to think that little babies can reason like adults, and can get up and get themselves a fresh diaper if they need it, a drink of water, etc.

I can understand 'conditioning', but not till they are older.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

CIO is so riduculous to me. It's like spanking. I can't help but think of the people who do those things as not very bright (I know how snobish). "I want this baby to sleep by itself... maybe if we just stick it in a room it will eventually stop yellin' and go to sleep. That'll learn it." It's on par with "I'm going to hit you because you hit your brother."

My child slept through the night by age 9 months (yes we were lucky) and never had to sit alone in a room and wail It's like those who support CIO think it's the only thing that will work. Fortunately they are wrong.


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## terpingmom (Sep 3, 2007)

CIO makes me sick as well. i see it as a form of child neglect/abuse. its just downright mean. its all about so called "convenience" for the parents. when someone tells me that they're "sleep training" their baby i want to say, "who's really being trained? the baby to go to sleep or you to ignore the crying?" i could go on and on about how i feel about it like most of us could. i mentioned to my mom about CIO and she was absolutely disgusted that parents are STILL doing it! she said back in the 70's it was popular and she thought there had be progress with parenting issues.

as far as peds goes, at my DS's 6 month well visit the ped asked me how DS was sleeping. i said fine. he went on to ask me if he was STILL in our bedroom. if he had only known he was in our bed! i said yes he was still in our bedroom. he then asked if i would be "open" to moving him into his own room. i said no. we now have a different ped. i'm with some of the pp: peds have NO RIGHT to give me unsolicited parenting advice!


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