# Is it safer to have a "fake" bed for you kids? (A CPS type question)



## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

This might be a strange question.

A friend of mine had some sort of CPS called on her family because their baby tipped himself out of the carseat at a store (the store called). They had accidentally forgotten to fasten the buckle. They are a very wonderful family and they don't do anything that would warrant any type of CPS visit. It was all just such a surprise for them.

During the visit (she DID let them in the house), the woman commented that it was a good thing that they weren't sleeping with the baby. And she made especially sure that ALL the kids had their own beds. (My friend does not cosleep). It seemed like their might have been trouble and they would have taken the investigation further if all the kids had not had beds of their own.

So, my question is....is it necessary to have "fake" beds in your home for your children if you cosleep. On the slim chance that some accident could happen or someone who doesn't like you calls the CPS or something?

We are about to move into a one bedroom and will have two children cosleeping (3 year old and newborn). We will have two mattresses pushed up together. I hate to use up space we don't really have for pretend beds for the kids, but I also hate the thought of getting in "trouble" for not if something were to happen. I guess I have this strange fear of someone trying to take my kids away from me....I have heard some stories like this, even from people here on MDC who get called on b/c neighbors/family think they are strange.

Okay- sorry this post got so long! In your opinion....is it a good idea to have beds for your kids even if they don't sleep in them?


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## MeadowAndColtsMama (Oct 12, 2008)

Well, in your case, since it's a one bedroom, with 2 mattresses I would think that's enough. I mean, I'm sure it's "OK" for 2 kids to share a bed. I mean, you can't exactly fill the room with beds, it wouldn't be safe... fire hazard, and whatnot. I would not worry about it. Also, if you have a pack 'n' play in your house, it could "look" like a bed for babe if you're really concerned.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Well, fire code states 2ppl per bedroom, so I'd be more worried about that. IF I was going to allow a cps visit, I would make sure there was a seperate sleeping area for each person/couple even if it wasn't used since we've seen what an issue that can be.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

I've thought about it but I don't.

I would never go back to that store again, though, and would let them know why. They had an accident and the store called CPS? Why not call an ambulance instead? Oh yes, that's right, b/c if they just called an ambulance, they would likely have to pay for it...better to call CPS instead.







:

DS had an accident a bit over a year ago at Target, totally not their fault (not really ours, either, though we should have known better than to let him try on an itchy hat AND gloves that were fastened together (as gloves for sale often are) at the same time. They took care of us, well, me, while I took care of DS, and when I told them to call 911 they did so. Thank goodness they didn't call CPS, him falling like that was scary enough!


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

We have a bedroom set up for each child even though they usually sleep with us. If we were in a one bedroom, I would probably have a pack n play in the house (not set up - you can always say you put it away after your child got up each morning).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
Well, fire code states 2ppl per bedroom, so I'd be more worried about that. IF I was going to allow a cps visit, I would make sure there was a seperate sleeping area for each person/couple even if it wasn't used since we've seen what an issue that can be.

Whose fire code? This may apply to apartments or rental units in some states, but not across the boards by any means.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I vote no. But I wouldn't let them in without a warrant, so worst case I'd still have time to set up if I thought I needed to.

-Angela


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Whose fire code? This may apply to apartments or rental units in some states, but not across the boards by any means.

-Angela

In my county. All housing not just apartments. It's true in all counties in my state as well.


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

I choose to not allow them to scare me into spending extra money/wasting space on things I don't need. I have an Arm's Reach co-sleeper that we use for a few hours most nights so that counts for now but even if we didn't have that... I don't think I'd have fake beds.

I don't ever plan on having CPS called on me (lol I know no one does, that is phrased totally wrong







) and if they are, I will have a lawyer prior to them being allowed in my home. I don't really fear CPS though so


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

For the OP specifically-- the second bed that's pushed together would work for the 3-year-old, and a Pack and Play would work for the newborn.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

We have beds for each child. (Except the baby.) IT has nothing to do with CPS though. I think it's really important for them to have 'em - to have it available should they choose to use it, to have thier own space to read, play, etc. They have always had their rooms set up even though they don't sleep there. That said our 3 girls all sleep with us, and until 9 months ago so did the older 2!







And, yeah, fire codes here too dictate no more than 2 per bedroom. I just don't care.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
In my county. All housing not just apartments. It's true in all counties in my state as well.

Wow, so if you have a 3 bedroom house and 2 parents and 4 kids, you're not legally allowed to have a baby?

Really?

Freaky....

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Wow, so if you have a 3 bedroom house and 2 parents and 4 kids, you're not legally allowed to have a baby?

Really?

Freaky....

-Angela

We have a 3 bedroom house and 5 kids. So 7 people. We are in violation, but so is a very large % of the population. Who's gunn'a enforce it, ya know? CPS could I suppose but I don't worry about it.

ETA - We also have a playroom so I suppose we could turn it into a bedroom if anyone made an issue of it. But really, not anything anyone should fret over.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

In my county kids don't count until they are 18 months.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Each of my children has a bed of some sort (we have a pack n play for the new baby) but we continue to co-sleep with DD and will with the baby as well.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think it's a good idea to have enough beds for all family members for a number of reasons. First of all is the CPS/cover your







aspect of it.

Secondly, sometimes kids DO want their own space unexpectedly, and having extra beds for the kids means that, if they decide at 7:45 they want to sleep alone tonight, you can tuck them in at 8:00 in their own bed. (THen of course you can welcome them back into the big bed at 8:30.







) It's nice to keep the options open, and eliminates the risk of a chid co-sleeping who'd really prefer more privacy.

With an infant who would need a crib rather than a bed, the "I want my own space" issue is less likely to come up (but still possible.) But sometimes you just need a safe place to put the baby down for a few minutes. If you've got an appropriate crib set up, you can plop the baby in there when you have to go wash poop out of the 2yo's hair, or deal with the 5yo's possible broken bone from a fall off the furniture, or even to go switch the laundry or pee in peace!


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

When DD was little, we had a pack and play that I really just used for camping trips (place to put her while I helped DH set up the tent) and the like. Could have been set up easily if needed.

I had a bassinette and now a crib for DS. And a bed for DD. Honestly though, before DD used the bed, I set her twin bed up as a daybed. Got plenty of daytime use. And I do use the crib for DS both awake and asleep for short amounts of time. When I didn't use it as a crib, we had one of those changing table rail things, so it was a changing table. It does make me feel a little safer to have beds, honestly.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
We have a 3 bedroom house and 5 kids. So 7 people. We are in violation, but so is a very large % of the population. Who's gunn'a enforce it, ya know? CPS could I suppose but I don't worry about it.

ETA - We also have a playroom so I suppose we could turn it into a bedroom if anyone made an issue of it. But really, not anything anyone should fret over.

Is there documentation somewhere of this law?

I've heard of it for rental units but I can't see how it's a legal law for owned homes.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I think it's a good idea to have enough beds for all family members for a number of reasons. First of all is the CPS/cover your







aspect of it.

Secondly, sometimes kids DO want their own space unexpectedly, and having extra beds for the kids means that, if they decide at 7:45 they want to sleep alone tonight, you can tuck them in at 8:00 in their own bed. (THen of course you can welcome them back into the big bed at 8:30.







) It's nice to keep the options open, and eliminates the risk of a chid co-sleeping who'd really prefer more privacy.

With an infant who would need a crib rather than a bed, the "I want my own space" issue is less likely to come up (but still possible.) But sometimes you just need a safe place to put the baby down for a few minutes. If you've got an appropriate crib set up, you can plop the baby in there when you have to go wash poop out of the 2yo's hair, or deal with the 5yo's possible broken bone from a fall off the furniture, or even to go switch the laundry or pee in peace!

Eh, I disagree. We don't have cribs here.

It would be a HUGE waste of time, money and floor space. (and we really have plenty of floor space







) And the cats would sleep in it- so it wouldn't be ready at a moment's notice any way.









We set up dd's room around 18 months.... so the option was available... It was a very expensive, antique cat bed for 2.5yrs.







Didn't matter at the time, but if we hadn't had the $$, time or space? Forget it.

-Angela


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

It's in my county's code as maximum occupancy.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee* 
During the visit (she DID let them in the house), the woman commented that it was a good thing that they weren't sleeping with the baby.

What an odd comment...

We have an extra toddler bed but a toddler-sized teddy bear sleeps in it.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Is there documentation somewhere of this law?

I've heard of it for rental units but I can't see how it's a legal law for owned homes.

-Angela

Well a quick phone call indicates you are right. (The local CPS supervisor's brother went to a church we used to attend...so I called HIM and he knew right away.) This is true for rental units INSIDE city limits. So even for renters who live outside the city - no worries. I assume (and hope) it is similar elsewhere.







Good to know!

Also, yeah...a crib is a major waste of $ IMO. If I wanted a seperate sleeping space for a newborn I'd still just invest in a real bed. I'm not even bothering with Zoe, I figure it'll be eons before it's needed. I am assuming the girls will likely sleep in a bed together in their room when leaving our bed, which won't be for another decade anyhow!


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

I don't think my state has laws like that since there was a big fuss about the *city* putting in laws about no more than X unrelated persons. And that was just for rental properties.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
But sometimes you just need a safe place to put the baby down for a few minutes. If you've got an appropriate crib set up, you can plop the baby in there when you have to go wash poop out of the 2yo's hair, or deal with the 5yo's possible broken bone from a fall off the furniture, or even to go switch the laundry or pee in peace!

That's what my 10 yr. old is for!







: MANY a time already I've flung her on him with a quick "take her!" while running off to help someone.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

As a renter, I have never had any problems with CPS or the landlord threatening to evict me for having too many people and not enough beds, although I did get this house when I was looking at a smaller apartment owned and the owner suggested I wait until it came on the market because it was more suitable.

I had a small one bedroom apartment when I was married and had two kids and have lived in two-bedroom houses as a single mama to two and then three kids.

I had cribs/bassinets with the older kids that were great for storing the laundry I hadn't had time to fold, but no one ever slept in them. I didn't bother for Terran. Crap, I'm 43 years old; I neesd that space for letters friom my dead sister, half-finished Great American Niovels and quilts, dd's outgrown dolls and other "middle aged person" clutter!

I wouldn't have opened this thread if I wasn't concerned, of course, but as it stands, I live in a two bedroom house with a full sized bed in one room and two twin beds (one a trundle that fits under the other when not in use) so i'm not overly worried. The lease allows me to have dd and ds1 living there and was not changed when ds2 was born.

dd is sleeping in the nursery tonight because she had a fight with her boyfriend and doesn't want to go home right now.. ds1 is sleeping on the couch because even though he lives with his father now, most noncustodial parents get weekend visitation.

ds2 is eleven months old and the trundle bed is very low to the ground, so even though he has literally never slept in *his* bed, i don't think it is a safety hazard and for all anyone knows, i put it in *my* bedroom at night and then return it to the nursery after we wake up so the house doesn't look any worse than it does.

I think i'm okay....

i'm lying through my teeth. you know it. i know it. my landlord knows it. but i think i'm okay....


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysticmomma* 
It's in my county's code as maximum occupancy.

But where is that as it applies to owned buildings? I've only seen that in public building codes and rental codes.

I don't mean to be dense, honest







I've just never seen that and can't imagine it's constitutional.

-Angela


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Threads like this really make me sad....does anyone know if the number of beds is an issue for our Canadian equivalent of CPS?

I've NEVER heard of anyone being reported for co-sleeping or not having the right number of beds or not having a crib....

We do have 5 people living in our house and four beds, but only two of them are ever used as we cosleep with our toddler and our older two children prefer to cosleep as well...


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Well a quick phone call indicates you are right. (The local CPS supervisor's brother went to a church we used to attend...so I called HIM and he knew right away.) This is true for rental units INSIDE city limits. So even for renters who live outside the city - no worries. I assume (and hope) it is similar elsewhere.







Good to know!

Also, yeah...a crib is a major waste of $ IMO. If I wanted a seperate sleeping space for a newborn I'd still just invest in a real bed. I'm not even bothering with Zoe, I figure it'll be eons before it's needed. I am assuming the girls will likely sleep in a bed together in their room when leaving our bed, which won't be for another decade anyhow!









Glad to know I'm not entirely batty (well I *am*, but...








)

I don't think that such laws are really out there for owned property. Rental, yes.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
That's what my 10 yr. old is for!







: MANY a time already I've flung her on him with a quick "take her!" while running off to help someone.

















Can't wait until dd is big enough for that.

-Angela


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
We have beds for each child. (Except the baby.) IT has nothing to do with CPS though. I think it's really important for them to have 'em - to have it available should they choose to use it, to have thier own space to read, play, etc. They have always had their rooms set up even though they don't sleep there. That said our 3 girls all sleep with us, and until 9 months ago so did the older 2!







And, yeah, fire codes here too dictate no more than 2 per bedroom. I just don't care.

















:
I voted other. I think it's important to have beds available because the child may want it. And even if they they don't want to sleep there, they may want a room of their own to put their stuff and hang out. I think children should have a room "available" to them to sleep in from when they are about two. They can chose to use it or not. My ds is 4 and still sleeps with us most nights. Some nights he starts in his own room and comes into us about 2am. I think it's important for children to have the choice.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







Can't wait until dd is big enough for that.

-Angela

My 19 year old just barely is.







ds2 sleeps on my back in a wrap when i can't lie down with him. i think i just used the floor when the teens were infants.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 







:
I voted other. I think it's important to have beds available because the child may want it. And even if they they don't want to sleep there, they may want a room of their own to put their stuff and hang out. I think children should have a room "available" to them to sleep in from when they are about two. They can chose to use it or not. My ds is 4 and still sleeps with us most nights. Some nights he starts in his own room and comes into us about 2am. I think it's important for children to have the choice.

ds1 had his own room for about a year before he slept in it. he was six. i do agree with you in principle, but lots of things are important and i think we have the right to prioritize, i.e., i hate renting with a passion but homeschooling was more important than home ownership for my family. That does not give me the right to enforce my priorities on a homeowner whose child is doing well in public school, kwim?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 







:
I voted other. I think it's important to have beds available because the child may want it. And even if they they don't want to sleep there, they may want a room of their own to put their stuff and hang out. I think children should have a room "available" to them to sleep in from when they are about two. They can chose to use it or not. My ds is 4 and still sleeps with us most nights. Some nights he starts in his own room and comes into us about 2am. I think it's important for children to have the choice.

I agree that a sleeping space should be available (or available to be made available







) for older kids. But I think it's worth mentioning that that space may certainly be in a room with a sibling or even in a bed with a sibling. The whole idea of every child having a bed or especially room to themselves is a very new one.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noordinaryspider* 
ds1 had his own room for about a year before he slept in it. he was six. i do agree with you in principle, but lots of things are important and i think we have the right to prioritize, i.e., i hate renting with a passion but homeschooling was more important than home ownership for my family. That does not give me the right to enforce my priorities on a homeowner whose child is doing well in public school, kwim?

I MUST be missing something here...

Why would you have to choose homeschooling or owning a home?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I agree that a sleeping space should be available (or available to be made available







) for older kids. But I think it's worth mentioning that that space may certainly be in a room with a sibling or even in a bed with a sibling. The whole idea of every child having a bed or especially room to themselves is a very new one.

-Angela









: My boys share a room that has a bunk bed in it. The girls, who sleep with us, have their own room - one room to share. It has 2 twin beds in it.

The idea of having a seperate room for EVERYONE seems lonely - and I could never afford a house that big!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *noordinaryspider* 
My 19 year old just barely is.







ds2 sleeps on my back in a wrap when i can't lie down with him. i think i just used the floor when the teens were infants.

Yep. I use the floor. Ds is a mouther though- dd never was. Pulled cat food out of his mouth today...







and a bit of paper.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I MUST be missing something here...

Why would you have to choose homeschooling or owning a home?

Money, I would expect









-Angela


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I MUST be missing something here...

Why would you have to choose homeschooling or owning a home?

I would guess she'd need to be employed to save money for a downpayment, but if she's busy homeschooling the kids, there's no time or energy for an outside job.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Ohhh, ok. That makes sense. I wasn't thinking of that - sorry!


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## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I agree that a sleeping space should be available (or available to be made available







) for older kids. But I think it's worth mentioning that that space may certainly be in a room with a sibling or even in a bed with a sibling. The whole idea of every child having a bed or especially room to themselves is a very new one.

-Angela

I agree with you. I have nothing against siblings sharing, I shared with my sibling (through choice) until we were 8/9 and it was only fun!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't think that such laws are really out there for owned property. Rental, yes.

-Angela

In the case of owned property, it's usually governed by city or county ordinances, I think. So it could still be the case in some cities even if it isn't state law.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
In the case of owned property, it's usually governed by city or county ordinances, I think. So it could still be the case in some cities even if it isn't state law.

I would be very interested in seeing such laws or ordinances.

-Angela


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Well a quick phone call indicates you are right. (The local CPS supervisor's brother went to a church we used to attend...so I called HIM and he knew right away.) This is true for rental units INSIDE city limits. So even for renters who live outside the city - no worries. I assume (and hope) it is similar elsewhere.







Good to know!

Thanks for checking into this. The one bedroom we're looking into would be a condo that we would OWN. So, maybe we'd be okay as far as that goes. Sometimes I just wonder if it is enough space, but we could probably make it work.
The building is a co-op building of really nice people and it is a real community (they are all friends and have potlucks and get togethers and care about each other as neighbors). It would be nice to own regardless and the square footage is actually more than we have right now. They just only have a one bedroom available right now.


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## Zannah (Jul 11, 2008)

I put other. We do have a bed for our 7yo and a pack n play for the baby. But not because I'm afraid cps would come. Just like to have one around in case there ever is a moment she would be tempted to take a nap without me.









And in the case of our 7yo, he has his own bed and sleeps in it most of the week, but also likes to camp out in the living room as much as he can get away with. In fact there was a period of about a year when I wondered why we ever got him a bed.


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

As for CPS, they are a mainstream agency... they will promote mainstream ideas. Who knows what's really on their books for rules and regulations, or red flags. It might be a good idea to look into what their policies and procedures are. It's my understanding where I live that they aren't going to yank kids from homes if they are able to resolve it any other way. KWIM? Here there is not money in the budget to pay for all the kids who might otherwise need out of home placements for kids. Let me say it this way, they are looking for other solutions, other options to help families without taking kids away from families. I don't know if that's how it is everywhere, but I wanted to at least put that out there for anyone worried about someone coming and taking your children... it might not be cut and dry like that.

And as for the beds go? If you don't have the space or the money, I wouldn't worry about if it's just in case the cps shows up. On the other hand, we made a room into my son's bedroom even though he doesn't sleep there. He knows that's where he will move into when he's ready. It also works for us with family or guests who do not understand our choice to cosleep. We just say here's our son's room and leave it at that.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

We live in a rented 1 bedroom house. 730 square feet.

We have a king in the bedroom that we all slept in until recently.

DD now has a loft bed in a nook in the living room. Before that we only had the one bed.

I would worry about CPS and beds only if I really had too.

I do not think you have to have a bed just in case a child suddenly wants to have their own space. It has not been my experience that the desire to leave the family bed happens overnight. Once DD expressed interest in having a "big girl bed" there was plenty of time to talk about it, shop, purchase and set it up. Even then she was not ready to leave our bed for a few more months. Of course we jumped on the idea of her moving out so her first tinsy little interest spurred us into action.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

WOW! I just voted in the poll and saw the results.

Is everyone really that afraid of CPS or are there other reasons to have the beds and the CPS concern is really just a secondary reason?


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 

Is everyone really that afraid of CPS or are there other reasons to have the beds and the CPS concern is really just a secondary reason?

I voted yes, though I have absolutely no fear of Child and Family Services counting my beds...

I have extra beds for when my children decide they want privacy. And I keep them (as well as spare playpens) because I do home childcare and the daycare children nap in them . But our family of five almost always sleeps in 2 queen beds and the other 2 beds are not used at night.


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## jrose_lee (Oct 2, 2005)

Thanks everyone. I think I'm just not going to worry about it for now. Right now we just don't have the space. Someday I hope we will have more bedrooms as the kids grow, but our oldest is just 3. We just don't have space to be cramming in unused beds. It makes me crazy how crowded we are. We are giving away our twin on Freecycle today and probably the used bassinet we got as well. Maybe I will look into a moses basket or folding crib or pack n play we could keep in storage just in case.

Thanks!


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## mizznicole (Feb 13, 2007)

It's just maddening.

Why are dedicated, upstanding parents scared of CPS, when little kids here in Florida DIE and are MURDERED by abusive boyfriends even when CPS has been alerted and take no blame? (This has happened a few times in our area.)

It's enough to make you a rabid libertarian.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrose_lee* 
! In your opinion....is it a good idea to have beds for your kids even if they don't sleep in them?


I think it is a good idea for your kids to have their own beds.....maybe not so much because of CPS, as because there are times when your kids shouldn't sleep with you for safety, esp a nb. (if you're on medication for example.....or really exhausted....because you'll sleep more deeply than usual and maybe not be aware of them).

Don't think of it as wasted space - think of it as a play space.







DS spents lots of time climbing into & out of his bed, hiding under it, putting his babies (and trains, and dinosaurs, and phone, and....) to sleep in it.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I vote no. But I wouldn't let them in without a warrant, so worst case I'd still have time to set up if I thought I needed to.

-Angela

i might like CPS but with the stories of things gone wrong , i dont let them in my house with out a warrant if they are unexpected. they have to call and make an appt with me.also i voted other b/c all my kids have their own bed, with DD's crib being sidecarred. CPS visits me right now b/c of my DSDs and they have said how cute it is. and how nice it must be to be so close at night. but i know that individuals within the agency differ.


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## neostudded (Sep 5, 2007)

wow. I never thought they would look for something like that.
I am in Australia and I am not sure, I will have to ask my grandmother (who works in DOC'S)...
I live in a two bedroom home and my son (18 months) sleep's with me on my queen bed.
We don't have any other bed's.
Honestly, we couldn't afford another bed any way.

Not that it bothers me.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

I wonder what it is that makes some people more "at risk" (for lack of a better term) of CPS issues? I am just not scared of them. Maybe being financially secure, owning a home, and having the kind of job where I can get help form higher level folks if I need to make me less worried?

DD has a crib, but it's sidecarred to our bed. I want to set up a mattress on the floor in her room because it seems like some nights she might sleep better on her own (but with me able to lay down with her to nurse her back to sleep when she wakes up).

I hate that CPS says things like that - it's none of their business. I would also never let them into my house without a warrant. I think some days the state of the kitchen alone would make me keep them out!


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

I think these fire codes are useless.

I just told my DH this and he pointed out that, escape wise, it would be much safer to have your children in your room in the event of a fire.

Imagine having to run through a large 4 bedroom house to gather up your children from different rooms - much more time consuming than gathering them up from one room - and definetly more time consuming than gathering them up from your own room!

I found a link saying that the general rule for determining these fire codes limits is width in feet multiplied by length in feet divided by 32.
A 10ft x 10ft room should allow 3.12 people according to this formula.

(NB: I'm in Australia too and the maximum residency codes for residential houses is the length x width divided by 2.5 (so a 3m x 3m room would allow 3.6 people.) Licenced premises and commercial buildings get more room because their ceilings are higher and doors wider.)


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
I think these fire codes are useless.

I just told my DH this and he pointed out that, escape wise, it would be much safer to have your children in your room in the event of a fire.

Imagine having to run through a large 4 bedroom house to gather up your children from different rooms - much more time consuming than gathering them up from one room - and definetly more time consuming than gathering them up from your own room!









Exactly. This is a big reason my kids will stay in our room until they are old enough to get out of the house in an emergency. Or they'll sleep with a sib. old enough to take responsibility for them.

-Angela


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## KnittingTigers (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mizznicole* 
It's just maddening.

Why are dedicated, upstanding parents scared of CPS, when little kids here in Florida DIE and are MURDERED by abusive boyfriends even when CPS has been alerted and take no blame? (This has happened a few times in our area.)

It's enough to make you a rabid libertarian.

Well, as a same-sex couple, we actually HAVE to be worried about CPS, since they will have to come and do a site visit before we can do a second-parent adoption. Unfair? Yes, completely. Does it stress me out that we live in a one-bedroom apartment and all sleep in the same bed? Am I afraid that we'll be judged unfit? Yes, a little.

Please keep in mind that this is a baby I GAVE BIRTH TO. But we still have to go through this process in order for my partner to legally adopt her.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
I think these fire codes are useless.

I just told my DH this and he pointed out that, escape wise, it would be much safer to have your children in your room in the event of a fire.

Imagine having to run through a large 4 bedroom house to gather up your children from different rooms - much more time consuming than gathering them up from one room - and definetly more time consuming than gathering them up from your own room!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelaM* 
Well, as a same-sex couple, we actually HAVE to be worried about CPS, since they will have to come and do a site visit before we can do a second-parent adoption. Unfair? Yes, completely. Does it stress me out that we live in a one-bedroom apartment and all sleep in the same bed? Am I afraid that we'll be judged unfit? Yes, a little.

Please keep in mind that this is a baby I GAVE BIRTH TO. But we still have to go through this process in order for my partner to legally adopt her.


That's absurd. Sorry. Stupidy abounds.


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## caro113 (Aug 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aubergine68* 
Threads like this really make me sad....does anyone know if the number of beds is an issue for our Canadian equivalent of CPS?

I've NEVER heard of anyone being reported for co-sleeping or not having the right number of beds or not having a crib....

We do have 5 people living in our house and four beds, but only two of them are ever used as we cosleep with our toddler and our older two children prefer to cosleep as well...

Unfortunately, it has happened, and recently. In September, there was a thread on here about a news article. This woman was co-sleeping and rolled over on her child, killing it! The DA decided that co-sleeping was the devil and stated he would go after any and all parents within his jurisdiction who co-sleep as potential child abusers and such ... What he failed to care about was that parents who co-sleep doing it very safely, else they wouldn't do it. And the woman who killed her child? She was stoned out of her mind with a BAL waaay over the legal limit. Gee, could that be the reason she kill her child?







It had nothing to do with co-sleeping, just her stupidity. Oh yea, she was also on a couch.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, I wouldn't have the beds up for the simply reason that they are a waste of time and money and space. We do have a crib because we bought it before we decided to co-sleep. It's a converter thankfully so it wasn't a complete waste. When she decides to sleep on her own, she'll have a toddler bed waiting for her, complete with mattress and sheets and everything. If CPS wants to come in to my house, then they can get a warrant, no way would I just let them barge in like that. I actually talked to my DP about the possibility that they could be called on our account since we don't have a pediatrician and we don't vax and I'm going to home school and we cloth diaper (most of the time) and we co-sleep (he has some real assholes in his family). And I am fully prepared to pack up and leave on a moment's notice if I have to in order to protect my family from the evils of government.

Also, I do keep the crib set up. If I'm cleaning and can't keep an eye on her or I have to leave her alone for a few minutes for whatever reason (like others have stated, to pee or do laundry or something) I will put her in the crib to keep her safe, or her swing. So I keep it set up for that reason and that reason alone, but once she gets the point where she no longer needs that sort of protection (and assuming we don't have another baby) I will change it to a toddle bed, just for the sake of having a place to put all those stuffed animals we have for her. And yet another reason we keep the crib set up: If we have family come to visit, they know they have a place for their baby to sleep, since they don't co-sleep. But if we had committed to co-sleeping before we bought the crib, we never would have bought it. We have a pack-n-play (which she HATES) so if we absolutely needed something, we could use that.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

We live in a rental, although we have 3 bedrooms. One of which has been converted into a big storage room (keep all clothes and toys in there). My son does not really have his own bed, although for the last week or so, I've gotten him to sleep on the sofa (our big bed is actually in the living room and the back bedroom has been recently converted to a computer room/dining room area--yeah, not exactly traditional). This thread got me thinking, then I realized that we have the old crib still set up day-bed style in the storage room, albeit with boxes of blankets and stuffed animals on it. If there were any issues with CPS (not likely, but still), we could always clear it off and say that it is his bed (and move the garment racks into the computer room or something) and bedroom. We will have a pack-n-play for the new baby. And our daughter has her own bedroom.


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## junipermoon (Nov 19, 2008)

i agree about the fire thing in terms of safely collecting my kids--better to have the kids nearby.

the cps thing: probably varies state to state and cty to cty, but in MA where i used to live, one of cps's BIG litmus tests re:neglect was to check that all kids had their own beds (or a double bed for 2 kids) that were functional and had clean sheets and pillows. i don't know that they would immediately yank the kids if there weren't but they would definitely open a case.

there was a cultural exception for cambodians and other folks whose cultures traditionally used cosleeping, but this wasn't extended to hippies and ap folks.

does anyone know if their are activist groups working to make cps sensitive to ap styles?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermoon* 
there was a cultural exception for cambodians and other folks whose cultures traditionally used cosleeping, but this wasn't extended to hippies and ap folks.

HUMAN culture traditionally used cosleeping.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

There is no law against co-sleeping, some people who work at health and welfare co-sleep with their children too as do many other people from all walks of life, and the research on co-sleepings harm is spotty. I think a bed is good for other reasons, but not just for CPS if it doesn't fit into what your children want right now. If you do decide to get beds for each you can get a crib size mattress pretty cheap at thrift shops and put them up against the wall with your blankets folded up. I think you should be okay as long as you buckle your child in and don't seem abusive to your neighbors or in public.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would be very interested in seeing such laws or ordinances.

-Angela

I know there have been attempts around here by some towns to create rules/ordinances like this, but the basis of the idea was fairly racist in nature.

As housing around us got more expensive, a lot of towns in our area discovered that extended Hispanic and Asian families were purchasing houses together (several generations going in together in order to come up with enough of the purchase price so to be able to get a traditional mortgage). So they tried to pass laws limiting the number of people per house/per bedroom and in case of identified violation, the structure's occupancy permit would be suspended.

On different level, HOAs (homeowners associations) were also trying to pass bylaws limiting the number of people per bedroom.

I think some HOAs locally did succeed in implementing bylaws like this but we're in a state where the HOA power is very limited (in communities of detached homes; they have much more power in townhome communities) and nothing much has come of it. I don't think any towns succeeded.

(I just did a google search on hoa bylaws "people per bedroom" and a brief scan of the first couple pages of results looks like that's where you going to run into this most with owned properties.)


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## nj's_mom (Jan 13, 2009)

This is concerning to me because I do co sleep, and being of a young age, am always paranoid of being judged unfairly ... I don't know!


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