# Guns at my friend's house: WWYD?



## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

My laundry is broken, so my friend kindly offered to have me do it at her house; she also needed babysitting, so I brought my son and her son to the basement and did my laundry while she went out for a few hours.

I've never been down there before. I discovered a cabinet full of guns. There are six large guns, I can't tell the difference between rifles and shotguns but I know there's at least one shotgun because it has shells in little storage compartments in the handle part (the butt, is it called?). Above those is what looks like a machine gun, but it may be a paintball gun. Below is a collection of six handguns. And there's a drawer at the bottom which I assume contains ammo. Everything is locked tight.

I'm shocked and not sure what to do. This doesn't come up a lot in my area. Her husband is from the south, where gun collecting I know is more common. I had always planned on a "no guns in the house" policy, meaning no guns in our house and my kid isn't allowed at a house with guns. Now, my dad is from Montana and grew up hunting. We had a shotgun in our house for a while when I was little before he gave up hunting, but he is obsessive about gun safety- partly because his brother was shot with a shotgun in 7th grade by a friend who didn't know the gun was loaded. He almost died. If we visited our Montana relatives more and they had guns in the house, kept safely, I would probably let my kids stay there and wouldn't worry, because I trust them to be safe about it. But I don't know my friend's husband at all.

My kid is a toddler (2 yrs) and goes over there all the time. This friend is my go-to person for babysitting, and vice versa. I've known her since my son was a few months old. She is 10 minutes away. I was planning to have my son go there when I have my home birth in November. I don't know what to do.

My inclination is to first talk it over with my hubby of course, then talk it over with her. I would like to find out more about the ammo situation, and whether her husband has taken gun safety courses etc. And then I guess I'll decide what to do from there. It's tough because on the one hand, I feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing. But on the other hand, they're in an area where the kids would never go unsupervised. The stairs to the basement are babygated, and then there's a door the kids are not able to open without adult help, and then the guns are in a locked cabinet. But even so, I know something could still happen. It's not too likely the kids would get in there...but I know the couple has had marital problems and bad arguments. The husband could come home from work while she's babysitting my kid and go down for the shotgun. Again, not likely. But possible.

WWYD?


----------



## Autumn Breeze (Nov 13, 2003)

I guess I vote other, but I don't really know based on those options.

I do think you should talk to dp about it, but honestly I'm not sure if that is something you can enforce over a childs entire life.

You saw they were locked tight. It sounds like the husband is very responsible about it. (And I would doubt it's a machine gun, they're illegal.)

If your dp agrees, I'd probably then ask the friend if there were other guns in the house.
"I wanted to thank you again for letting me come over to get my laundry done. I noticed you guys have a gun case down there. Are they the only guns in the house? I only ask because they make me very nervous." or something like that.


----------



## larksongs (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katielady* 
My laundry is broken, so my friend kindly offered to have me do it at her house; she also needed babysitting, so I brought my son and her son to the basement and did my laundry while she went out for a few hours.

I've never been down there before. I discovered a cabinet full of guns. There are six large guns, I can't tell the difference between rifles and shotguns but I know there's at least one shotgun because it has shells in little storage compartments in the handle part (the butt, is it called?). Above those is what looks like a machine gun, but it may be a paintball gun. Below is a collection of six handguns. And there's a drawer at the bottom which I assume contains ammo. Everything is locked tight.

I'm shocked and not sure what to do. This doesn't come up a lot in my area. Her husband is from the south, where gun collecting I know is more common. I had always planned on a "no guns in the house" policy, meaning no guns in our house and my kid isn't allowed at a house with guns. Now, my dad is from Montana and grew up hunting. We had a shotgun in our house for a while when I was little before he gave up hunting, but he is obsessive about gun safety- partly because his brother was shot with a shotgun in 7th grade by a friend who didn't know the gun was loaded. He almost died. If we visited our Montana relatives more and they had guns in the house, kept safely, I would probably let my kids stay there and wouldn't worry, because I trust them to be safe about it. But I don't know my friend's husband at all.

My kid is a toddler (2 yrs) and goes over there all the time. This friend is my go-to person for babysitting, and vice versa. I've known her since my son was a few months old. She is 10 minutes away. I was planning to have my son go there when I have my home birth in November. I don't know what to do.

My inclination is to first talk it over with my hubby of course, then talk it over with her. I would like to find out more about the ammo situation, and whether her husband has taken gun safety courses etc. And then I guess I'll decide what to do from there. It's tough because on the one hand, I feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing. But on the other hand, they're in an area where the kids would never go unsupervised. The stairs to the basement are babygated, and then there's a door the kids are not able to open without adult help, and then the guns are in a locked cabinet. But even so, I know something could still happen. It's not too likely the kids would get in there...but I know the couple has had marital problems and bad arguments. The husband could come home from work while she's babysitting my kid and go down for the shotgun. Again, not likely. But possible.

WWYD?

Just be honest with her about how you feel about guns and how uncomfortable they make you. She sounds like a good friend, reassure her that it is nothing against her personally and that you understand she is careful but that they simply make you extremely uncomfortable /protective.

If she is close by maybe she can come to sit over at your home. This would let her know that you trust her just not guns.

If she is a friend she should understand.

I know it's not the same but my friend can rarely visit because her girlfriend is extremely allergic to cats. She can only come by herself which stinks. I know her girlfriend likes me , just can't be by the cats so when we hang it can't be at my house. I don't take that personally. But as in your situation we chose to switch meeting/hanging out spaces. This is what I would do in your situation just switch up the sitting area. I wouldn't be comfy having my son in a house w/ guns without me, no matter how locked down they were.


----------



## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I think it's good that you are aware of the situation, but I personally wouldn't make a big deal out of it. They are locked up tight, exactly where they should be, so that's a good thing. You know they are responsible gun owners, and that's one relief. I might mention to your friend in a light tone, hey, I noticed you have a collection in your basement...and sort of open a dialogue and see how she responds. If she gets extremely defensive or stand-off-ish I might be concerned, but if she is open and honest about it I'd hear her out.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

a husband could also stop at a Walmart in many states and purchase a gun on the way home to blow his wife's head off, if he wanted.

i used to be very much against guns in teh house, until i met my DP. he has ALOT of guns. they would probably scare alot of ppl but its a hobby that his father started and he has continued (he has civil war guns, etc. etc.). they are in a locked gun cabinet downstairs beside our laundry also (you cant see them though b/c the safe is a huge taller than me steel safe and no glass).

I guess I don't see how your son would be in jeopardy in the situation you describe, any more so than another home.

I'm surprised that your friend did not tell you they own guns, however. I konw that in my area its not that common and esp. around AP parents I know it can be a touchy subject (it used to be w/ me)....so i talk about it (a little) so that everyone knows we do own guns.

machine guns aren't illegal in all states though. and "machine guns" is a very broad category. where we live, almost all guns are legall but in the neighboring state one is hard pressed to own most types of guns...so it really does depend on the state you live in.

i guess to sum it up, it sounds like they are responsible gun owners. but i would initiate a conversation. to make yourself feel better and to give you some perspective on their view of gun ownership (we also have 2 hand guns in our bedroom, in a smaller safe).

i know guns can be scary..but w/ responsible gun owners who are diligent about safety, i think the fears are often unfounded.

talk to your friend...and then decide what to do based on what you learn. thats my advice (i didnt vote b/c thats not an option)


----------



## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

I would never feel comfortable in her house again. I wouldn't go there myself or let my children play there again. IMO guns are not okay, ever.


----------



## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 

talk to your friend...and then decide what to do based on what you learn. thats my advice (*i didnt vote b/c thats not an option*)

Yes it is, it's option 3.

I don't feel like I *know* that they're responsible gun owners yet. I've seen some evidence of it, but I won't know the whole story til I talk to her. They might have a gun under their bed too, who knows.

Isn't there a gun safety rule that you're not supposed to keep the ammo with the guns?


----------



## miss_sonja (Jun 15, 2003)

We have guns in our house. They're in a huge, secure safe that DH bought when we decided to have kids. The kids DO NOT know the combination. Our kids aren't allowed guns as toys. I mean, they could make a "gun" out of LEGOs and that would be ok, but no toys that look like guns. It's too risky to blur that line.

I'd talk to the friend, tell her your concerns. If the cabinet is a proper gun cabinet with secure locks that the kids CANNOT open, then it's fine. Guns are a part of life for many people--hunters, target shooters (heck, target shooting is an Olympic sport!), former and current military folk.

Guns don't hurt people on their own, but poorly secured guns are a huge hazard.


----------



## frog (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelpie545* 
I think it's good that you are aware of the situation, but I personally wouldn't make a big deal out of it. They are locked up tight, exactly where they should be, so that's a good thing. You know they are responsible gun owners, and that's one relief. I might mention to your friend in a light tone, hey, I noticed you have a collection in your basement...and sort of open a dialogue and see how she responds. If she gets extremely defensive or stand-off-ish I might be concerned, but if she is open and honest about it I'd hear her out.

Yes. This.

We grew up with guns, safely locked in the cabinet. We took hunter safety. We all learned to shoot. It's just not a huge deal to me.


----------



## MamaChicken (Aug 21, 2006)

You should ask more about it.

And then ask where any dangerous chemicals are stored and how well they are locked up. And the medicines. And the kitchen knives.

My DD (16 months) can break through most child proof cabinet locks. She opens the dishwasher at will. She climbs on anything that stands still.

She cannot, however, get into the locked room that has our locked gun safe.

Supervision is much more important, IMO, than the presence of "dangerous" items. And the guns may not be the most dangerous thing in a typical house.

YIKES! As I was typing this, DD just ran up with a very sharp kitchen knife and a banana.







Now I need to go check the counter tops for other dangerous items.

I need to remind DH and DS that she can reach the countertops now.


----------



## Nicole77 (Oct 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katielady* 
I don't feel like I *know* that they're responsible gun owners yet. I've seen some evidence of it, but I won't know the whole story til I talk to her. They might have a gun under their bed too, who knows.

Yes, this. I think that a conversation about guns and gun safety is definitely in order before you can make any decisions about future visits.

Also, two years old is not too young to get into a gun that no one was expecting you to find: http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp...0&nav=menu29_2


----------



## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I would definately talk to your dh and then talk to your friend some more. Ask if there are any other guns in the house, where they are, etc.

We are gun free. We don't own guns. DS doesn't have any gun/weapon like toys. At all (not even water guns).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katielady* 
Isn't there a gun safety rule that you're not supposed to keep the ammo with the guns?

I believe guns should be in a locked case and the ammo should be in a seperate locked case.

My dad has guns, and has since we were little. He uses them for hunting (very rarely) or for safety (shooting a rabid animal that's near the house). He lives in the country. His guns are all locked up. The ammo is all locked in a seperate place (different room even, I believe). The keys to these are on his key chain (along with a billion other keys), which means that when he's out of the house (at work or whatever) the keys to the guns are with him. I am okay with this, despite my no gun rule, because I know he is a responsible gun owner and I know they are all locked up and out of kids reach.

I wouldn't be okay with sending ds to a friends house who has guns (and, in fact, that'll be one of the first things we ask the other parents when ds starts going to others houses). Not unless I know these people very well and I know with all my heart they are responsible gun owners.


----------



## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AutumnBreeze* 
If your dp agrees, I'd probably then ask the friend if there were other guns in the house.
"I wanted to thank you again for letting me come over to get my laundry done. I noticed you guys have a gun case down there. Are they the only guns in the house? I only ask because they make me very nervous." or something like that.

I agree with this. I think that those particular guns in the basement, being in an area that the kids don't go and locked securely, are not a problem. If there are other guns in the house, that may be a problem. Like one in their nightstand next to the playroom or kids room, or other place where the kids may go regularly (and sometimes unsupervised). She seems like a good friend and a mama who you trust, so I doubt that she would get all funky with you. At least, I hope!


----------



## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ramama* 
I agree with this. I think that those particular guns in the basement, being in an area that the kids don't go and locked securely, are not a problem. If there are other guns in the house, that may be a problem. Like one in their nightstand next to the playroom or kids room, or other place where the kids may go regularly (and sometimes unsupervised). She seems like a good friend and a mama who you trust, so I doubt that she would get all funky with you. At least, I hope!

Yes, I also agree with AutumnBreeze. They are locked up, but I think it would be wise to have a conversation about keeping the kids safe from guns with your friend. I wouldn't bar my kids from going over there if I believed that they were being supervised and the guns were always locked away.


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

If I'm aware a home has guns, I do not go there. I'd find other solutions to babysitting and laundry. It's just not worth it.

However, I'm a vegan pacifist. Guns have no acceptable place in my life.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
I would never feel comfortable in her house again. I wouldn't go there myself or let my children play there again. IMO guns are not okay, ever.

You do realize that unless you have thoroughly searched every house that you enter that there is the chance that some of your friends/relatives/acquaintances may own guns right? If a person is a responsible gun owner, which IMHO the OP describes in her post, I have no problem with it.


----------



## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

Locked guns in a gun cabinet isn't anything I'd feel a need to say anything about to the owner. Even if my kids were in their house. I would talk to my kids though. They need to be instructed by me what is appropriate and what is not. My rules might be different from the family with the guns, so my kids need to know what is and isn't okay for our family.

I have hand guns. I secure them as I see fit. I don't publicize to friends and neighbors that I own them. I also don't have them in a place children play either.

I have a hard time chambering a bullet in my gun and the trigger is a safety trigger requiring two types of hand strength at the same time. It takes me 2 hands to fire it, I nearly failed my gun class for my concealed carry permit which required 1 handed firing in both the left and right hands. I know my kids would never have the stregth as young as they are to manage that particular handgun.

I think people in general think guns are easy to load and to fire and therefore accidents are easy. I have yet to meet a shot gun, riffle, or hand gun that was "easy". People fear guns because they don't understand how they work or fear someone with bad intentions will use one on them or their children. Someone with bad intentions is going to be nasty with or without a gun.

Do you know the time and dexterity to load a revolver is not something a little, little child is going to do quickly or effectively. Adults need practice to get fast. The movies make it look easy, it all has to click back into place to work properly and then you have to pull the trigger. Most newer guns have locks and safeties to undo before the trigger can be pulled.

Have you ever tried to load a shotgun? There are several steps involved that small children are not going to manage, normal small children that is.

A well broken in one might fire more easily, but the kick back from a shot gun, riffle or 45 cal handgun will throw you backwards to the floor if you are not expecting it and even if you are it can jar you off balance. The action of the kick cause the gun nuzzle to aim up (usually or up to the side) as it is firing as well.


----------



## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

First, the thing about the husband going downstairs and grabbing a shotgun after an argument with his wife, well, he could just as easily grab a knife. In my life, guns are perfectly acceptable. I look at it as my constitutional right to have them, and if someone has a problem with them being in my home, that's their problem, not mine. We have safety standards we adhere to and would never take gun safety lightly. I wouldn't be offended if a friend wasn't comfortable having her kids at my house because of the guns, but I also wouldn't go over to a friend's home to baby sit her children because she didn't want her kids at my house. I just wouldn't. Though I do absolutely understand not wanting your children even in the same home as certain things. For me, any sort of illegal drugs is a dealbreaker. My kids would never be there again. So I can understand that people don't feel ok with their kids being around certain things.

I say talk to your friend, voice your concerns, and ask her about what they've done to keep the keeps safe, etc. I'm sure she'll understand that.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My husband and I might have the only house in southern Illiniois without a gun. LOL. Ok maybe I exaggerate.

But guns are a reality here and I simply understand that any house my daughter goes into is likely to have a gun.

Here's what I've taught her. If she ever sees a gun, in any circumstance, including if a child has one, she is to RUN. Gun = run. Run run run away. Don't talk about it, don't tell the other child to do anything, don't talk at all, just run home and I'll call the police to have them take care of it. I've quizzed her every so often on this. "What do you do if you ever see a gun?" "RUN!"

I still worry but that's where I'm at.


----------



## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

If the guns are locked up, and in an area of the house where kids don't go, I would have no problem with it. We are gun owners. Guns don't scare me. People do. That is, irresponsible people. It sounds like they are responsible gun owners. If you are concerned, talk to your friend. Maybe she will put a lock on the door that goes to the basement to alleviate some of your fears. Then the basement would be locked, the guns locked in the cabinet, etc. That way you could have more peace of mind. You could ask her to remove any magazines from the guns and separate the guns from the ammo. That allieviates fears for many.

I had to have a conversation with my parents about guns recently. We are both very pro gun families, but they were clearly unsafe with their guns when we would visit. They were left loaded on table tops, etc. and I wasn't comfortable having my kids (ages 34 months and 8 months) there for a visit. They did not lock the guns up after our talk, but they put them in an upstairs room where the kids don't go and I am fine with that. The kids don't go in that room, and the kids aren't left unattended. Everyone has their own comfort level.


----------



## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
First, the thing about the husband going downstairs and grabbing a shotgun after an argument with his wife, well, he could just as easily grab a knife. In my life, guns are perfectly acceptable. I look at it as my constitutional right to have them, and if someone has a problem with them being in my home, that's their problem, not mine. We have safety standards we adhere to and would never take gun safety lightly. I wouldn't be offended if a friend wasn't comfortable having her kids at my house because of the guns, but I also wouldn't go over to a friend's home to baby sit her children because she didn't want her kids at my house. I just wouldn't. Though I do absolutely understand not wanting your children even in the same home as certain things. For me, any sort of illegal drugs is a dealbreaker. My kids would never be there again. So I can understand that people don't feel ok with their kids being around certain things.

I say talk to your friend, voice your concerns, and ask her about what they've done to keep the keeps safe, etc. I'm sure she'll understand that.

ITA!!! Owning a gun is my constitutional right. Thats fine if someone does not want to bring their kids here due to guns being here. I wont be offended. If you want me to do certain measures like put the ammo in another area while your kids are over I am willing to do that. But I am not going to babysit their kids at their house b/c of my house containing guns. Illegal drugs in a house is also a deal breaker for me. No way will my kids be going anywhere that I know has any illegal drugs, not even MJ.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katielady* 
Yes it is, it's option 3.

I don't feel like I *know* that they're responsible gun owners yet. I've seen some evidence of it, but I won't know the whole story til I talk to her. They might have a gun under their bed too, who knows.

Isn't there a gun safety rule that you're not supposed to keep the ammo with the guns?

which is why i suggested that you speak w/ them more. I only stated that they "sound" like responsible gun owners.

i guess no. 3 is an option...just didnt fit what i was thinking so much, at the time.

there is a gun safety issue re: ammo being stored w/ guns. there was an interesting thread here a few months ago re: that issue. Thats an interesting read.

for those of you who say your children are never allowed in homes w/ illegal drugs, even MJ.....that is another thing that you may or may not know about. I know many responsible adults who would have MJ in their home but certainly not advertise it.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
I would never feel comfortable in her house again. I wouldn't go there myself or let my children play there again. IMO guns are not okay, ever.

I agree.


----------



## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
which is why i suggested that you speak w/ them more. I only stated that they "sound" like responsible gun owners.


Right. I'll speak with her when I get a chance (maybe not til after I go on vacation next week) and will update here. She is a really good friend, I'm sure it'll go well. I don't want to be judgmental about it, just more like "hey, I noticed you have a gun collection, could you tell me a little bit about how you handle gun safety in the house?" And I'll ask if there are any unsecured guns. Unless they have unsecured guns under the bed in a shoebox, I'm probably OK with the current situation.

I spoke with my dad and he says it's a New York State law that ammo must be stored separate from the guns. Can anyone confirm? I tried looking it up but couldn't find an answer.


----------



## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
I would never feel comfortable in her house again. I wouldn't go there myself or let my children play there again. IMO guns are not okay, ever.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I agree.









my fellow Canadian! Peace, eh?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
You do realize that unless you have thoroughly searched every house that you enter that there is the chance that some of your friends/relatives/acquaintances may own guns right? If a person is a responsible gun owner, which IMHO the OP describes in her post, I have no problem with it.

None of my friends or relatives own guns. Guns are a deal breaker. I want nothing to do with them. If a friend of mine had a gun in their house I would never go there again. IMO responsible people don't have guns.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
IMO responsible people don't have guns.

wow..thats a pretty harsh statement.

NO responsible ppl have guns???

Talk about a judgmental statement.

I'm a mother to 3 (soon to be 4 sons), professional (when not a SAHM), law abiding citizen....and IYHO, im irresponsible b/c we own guns???

*shaking my head***


----------



## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
IMO responsible people don't have guns.

Rather narrow minded opinion, IMO. I guess I'm irresponsible.







As are every police officer, every US Treasury Agent, every FBI agent, etc. Being responsible or not being responsible has nothing to do with gun ownership.


----------



## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
I would never feel comfortable in her house again. I wouldn't go there myself or let my children play there again. IMO guns are not okay, ever.

Sorry, I agree with this. And I realize that I can't KNOW everyone who has a gun, but if I do know we don't visit there. Ever. That includes DH's brother in BC, and all his uncles in this province. Collecting deadly weapons is just not a good thing to mix with children, IMO.

I would let her know though, and I would still thank her for letting me do my laundry there, I would just say something like "I didn't realize you own guns, it may be over the top, but I am uncomfortable in the same house as a gun, and I worry about DS. Let's get together at the park (or wherever)"

(This appears to be a Canadian thing...)


----------



## pcasylum (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Collecting deadly weapons is just not a good thing to mix with children, IMO.

So people who own steak knives shouldn't have children either? I have an entire steak knife collection. It was given to me as a wedding present. Does that mean I'm irresponsible for wanting to cut steak properly? Of more relevance is *where* it is stored and how easily accessible it is to my children or any other children who come here. The whole block of knives is up on top of my fridge, and I have to stand on my tiptoes just to reach it.

*Anything* can be a deadly weapon - a car, a knife, medication ... if used improperly. Owning guns doesn't make a person irresponsible or a bad parent. Storing them improperly does. That is a big difference and the distinction that must be made. To say otherwise is a harsh judgement that has no basis in reality.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
IMO responsible people don't have guns.

What about those parents who work in law enforcement? Most are expected to bring their service revolver home. Are they not capable of being responsible parents?


----------



## ap mom (Dec 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
If I'm aware a home has guns, I do not go there. I'd find other solutions to babysitting and laundry. It's just not worth it.

However, I'm a vegan pacifist. Guns have no acceptable place in my life.









:


----------



## aurora_skys (Apr 1, 2008)

just talk to your friend about your concerns. Let her know its nothing personal against her, guns simply make you uncomfortable. It sounds like the husband is already a responsible gun owner so maybe talking with him would help put your mind at ease.

I certainly wouldnt prevent my kids from entering a house that contains firearms, its just not a practical restriction in most cases. I grew up with guns in the house, many of which were not locked away. My brother and I used to climb on top of the armoir to look at them when we were little. So I guess I am fairly lenient when it comes to firearms in a household with children. Keep them locked away, or just keep the ammunition locked away (really, cant do much with an unloaded gun







).

As far as the concern about the guns becoming involved in a fight between the man and woman, if you seriously believe that that man would get one of his guns and use it against a human being, then no, dont let your kids go back. Thats not a matter of gun safety, thats believing that man is capable/inclined towrds murdering a person and _thats_ what would make me uncomfortable with having kids in their house. Whole 'nother can of worms imo

*just read some more recent posts in this thread and have to lol. guess im irresponsible too. ive been feeling a bit unsafe in my neighborhood what with being 9mos preg and having a dh who works at night. heading out to the range this weekend to try out a few pieces and find the one thats right for me. meh, it must be my irresponsible nature making me want to own a gun  i love gun discussions...*


----------



## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Baby_Makes_5* 
So people who own steak knives shouldn't have children either? I have an entire steak knife collection. It was given to me as a wedding present. Does that mean I'm irresponsible for wanting to cut steak properly? Of more relevance is *where* it is stored and how easily accessible it is to my children or any other children who come here. The whole block of knives is up on top of my fridge, and I have to stand on my tiptoes just to reach it.

*Anything* can be a deadly weapon - a car, a knife, medication ... if used improperly. Owning guns doesn't make a person irresponsible or a bad parent. Storing them improperly does. That is a big difference and the distinction that must be made. To say otherwise is a harsh judgement that has no basis in reality.


Anything CAN be a deadly weapon, but a steak knife is far more likely to do non-fatal damage. My kid may lose an eye or a finger at your house with your knives, but I'd still have him.

I don't think that people who own guns are necessarily irresponsible or bad people. I just think that it's not a chance I want to take. YMMV


----------



## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *larksongs* 
Just be honest with her about how you feel about guns and how uncomfortable they make you. She sounds like a good friend, reassure her that it is nothing against her personally and that you understand she is careful but that they simply make you extremely uncomfortable /protective.

If she is close by maybe she can come to sit over at your home. This would let her know that you trust her just not guns.

If she is a friend she should understand.
***









:


----------



## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
wow..thats a pretty harsh statement.

NO responsible ppl have guns???

Talk about a judgmental statement.

I'm a mother to 3 (soon to be 4 sons), professional (when not a SAHM), law abiding citizen....and IYHO, im irresponsible b/c we own guns???

*shaking my head***


Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoMariposa* 
Rather narrow minded opinion, IMO. I guess I'm irresponsible.







As are every police officer, every US Treasury Agent, every FBI agent, etc. Being responsible or not being responsible has nothing to do with gun ownership.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
What about those parents who work in law enforcement? Most are expected to bring their service revolver home. Are they not capable of being responsible parents?

Police officers should not be bringing their guns home. Leave work at work. My opinion may be "narrow minded" but at least I never have to worry my child or teenager getting shot or shooting someone else.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
Police officers should not be bringing their guns home. Leave work at work. My opinion may be "narrow minded" but at least I never have to worry my child or teenager getting shot or shooting someone else.

i used to be married to an undercover detective. they MUST keep their guns w/ them. there is no place for them to keep their guns "at work". thats just a naive statement re: law enforcement officers.

i never have to worry my child or teenager is going to get shot or shooting someone else either. we are safe w/ our weapons and teach gun safety.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've never heard of police officers being able to keep their guns at work. I have a friend whose husband is a police officer and I'm quite sure he's said has a locked box in his closet for it when he's home.


----------



## alicewyf (Apr 24, 2008)

First of all: guns do not kill people, people with intent/people who irresponsibly store their guns are what contribute to deaths. A gun is a tool, just like a knife or a hammer. How likely is it that your child will die/be injured b/c of a gun? How likely that they will die/be injured in a car wreck? Drowning? A fall? Sickness?

Paranoia doesn't help anyone. Education and being informed does.

If I were the OP, I would talk to my friend about how they store their guns. IMHO, ammo being stored w/ the guns is pretty irresponsible, even if they have trigger locks in place. Tell your friend that until they store their guns properly you will not be bringing your children over. Ideally, _you should not have been able to get into that cabinet to SEE the guns_. Our guns were all kept in a locked cabinet growing up, to which only my dad had the key.

When I have children, they will be attending hunter's safety at the earliest age possible, and repeating it several times until age 18. Not because we have guns in our house; we don't. I just would rather have an educated child accidentally come across a gun than a child who had never even seen one before. I took hunter's safety and have hunted in the past. It isn't dangerous to be around guns unless you don't know what you're doing. My family has hunted for generations and no one has sustained a gun-related injury yet. This includes children as young as five practicing will pellet guns, under strict supervision of course.

Educate yourself, that's all I'm saying. Paranoia helps no one.


----------



## riaketty (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alicewyf* 
When I have children, they will be attending hunter's safety at the earliest age possible, and repeating it several times until age 18. Not because we have guns in our house; we don't. I just would rather have an educated child accidentally come across a gun than a child who had never even seen one before. I took hunter's safety and have hunted in the past. It isn't dangerous to be around guns unless you don't know what you're doing. My family has hunted for generations and no one has sustained a gun-related injury yet. This includes children as young as five practicing will pellet guns, under strict supervision of course.

Educate yourself, that's all I'm saying. Paranoia helps no one.

I couldn't have said it better.
We have guns, but even if we didn't, I would be teaching DD about them. It's more dangerous to be afraid or ignorant about guns than to be informed.

A kid who's never seen a gun or been taught about them may go play with it. A kid who's been taught that guns can be dangerous is more likely to stay away. KWIM?


----------



## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 

(This appears to be a Canadian thing...)

Yup, I'm Canadian too.

Guns are for killing or maiming and that's not okay.


----------



## myfairbabies (Jun 4, 2006)

To the OP: Just talking to the wife, or even the husband, would not be enough for me. We have some "friends" in the neighborhood (really, just dh likes them, I tolerate them occasionally for his sake) and I recently discovered that they have several guns at their home. Most are locked up in a safe in the basement. However, one day we were there for a party of sorts to welcome their new son. The house had a lot of people in it, including children and teenage boys. John (the guy I can not stand) was talking to my dh about his guns, and went upstairs to get one to show him and is only gone a few seconds. John comes walking down with a handgun and thrusts it into my hand. I immediately set it down on the counter and stepped back. My dh picks it up to look at it, and when he opens thing that bullets go in, sees that it's fully loaded. AND the safety isn't on. THEN dh sets down the gun because he isn't comfortable holding it and John says "let me show you the rest" and walks away. Leaving a fully loaded, unlocked gun sitting on the kitchen counter with dozens of people around. I almost had a heart attack. We left shortly after that and I told dh that if we have kids when we still live near these people, they are NEVER allowed to go over there, at all, ever.

Not only is he completely irresponsible with his guns, but I have a feeling that if I didn't know that, and had just asked his wife about it, I would have been reassured that they are always locked up or something. This man has no respect for his wife at all (he makes fun of her, doesn't help out with the house etc) or women in general really, he rolled his eyes when my dh told him that I wanted him (my dh) to take a gun safety class, and overall he is just a person I would never willingly be around since he is so rude/mean/ugh. He would probably bring out a gun just to show my kids how cool it is or something. His 6 week old son also already had his *own* gun. bleh (i hate the vomit smiley)

The point of all this, is, that I would need to know both parents well enough to have faith that they are responsible gun owners and would not blow off my concerns. We do own a gun, it is kept unloaded in a locked safe, up high, and I don't plan on letting our children know it even exists. They will be taught gun safety, but I don't want them to know we have one. I actually hate that we have it at all, but dh has agreed to my demands for keeping it.


----------



## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

I'd figure out how safe this family is. I grew up around guns, knew how to shoot by age 5. I was never left alone with a weapon, and as a kid, I had NO idea where the weapons were kept. Both guns and weapons were kept in seperate places (not even in the same room) in my home.

My partner and I have the same policy. We have 2 guns. They're locked in a safe. The bullets are locked in a smaller safe (kind of like a safe deposit box you get at a bank). We take them out to shoot at the range (targets, not animals).

Depending on the maturity level of our child ... I'll see when they'll be taught gun safety, shooting, etc.

So, you know, it really depends on the family. The gun isn't going to magically leave the cabinet and start causing havoc. Someone has to take it out and use it without any knowledge or responsibility for there to be harm.

I was taught that there were no gun accidents - only irressponsible usership. I totally believe that. In all the accidents I read about - it was a sheer lack of responsibility and knowledge that caused it.

I'd definitely quiz the family as a result. Though, I have a gun, I wouldn't let me kid into homes with guns unless I KNEW that family practiced the same type of safety I did. And the only way I would know that would be to invite them to go shooting with me.


----------



## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisApril* 
Police officers should not be bringing their guns home. Leave work at work. My opinion may be "narrow minded" but at least I never have to worry my child or teenager getting shot or shooting someone else.

Um, wow. So your teen doesn't go to school? Is never at the mall? Doesn't walk on the sidewalk? Shootings happen. It's a horrible, tragic thing. But it does happen (and no, I don't believe gun control will stop it. Then the only people who will have guns will be the criminals







).

Police officers HAVE to have their guns on them. What if they get called out to an emergency in the middle of the night? Cops aren't just on work/off work at specific times. Personally, I'd rather police officers take their guns WITH them, and when called into a job, be able to go strait to the scene without having to stop to pick their gun up at the station, thereby saving time and possibly saving LIVES against a criminal threatening innocent people with a gun. Or of course, the cop could go to the scene without a firearm and then get shot and then who would help the victim?

Your views are very unrealistic.


----------



## ParisApril (Apr 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alicewyf* 
First of all: guns do not kill people, people with intent/people who irresponsibly store their guns are what contribute to deaths. A gun is a tool, just like a knife or a hammer. How likely is it that your child will die/be injured b/c of a gun? How likely that they will die/be injured in a car wreck? Drowning? A fall? Sickness?

Paranoia doesn't help anyone. Education and being informed does.

If I were the OP, I would talk to my friend about how they store their guns. IMHO, ammo being stored w/ the guns is pretty irresponsible, even if they have trigger locks in place. Tell your friend that until they store their guns properly you will not be bringing your children over. Ideally, _you should not have been able to get into that cabinet to SEE the guns_. Our guns were all kept in a locked cabinet growing up, to which only my dad had the key.

When I have children, they will be attending hunter's safety at the earliest age possible, and repeating it several times until age 18. Not because we have guns in our house; we don't. I just would rather have an educated child accidentally come across a gun than a child who had never even seen one before. I took hunter's safety and have hunted in the past. It isn't dangerous to be around guns unless you don't know what you're doing. My family has hunted for generations and no one has sustained a gun-related injury yet. This includes children as young as five practicing will pellet guns, under strict supervision of course.

Educate yourself, that's all I'm saying. Paranoia helps no one.


People kill people WITH guns. Sure you can kill someone with something else, but guns sure do make it easy. You can't tell me getting hit with a hammer and getting shot with a gun are the same thing. Because they are not. Gun accidents happen, they just do. I searched 'child accidentally shot' and I got pages and pages of search matches.

http://ca.search.yahoo.com/search?p=...&cop=&ei=UTF-8

If there is no gun in the home then there is no risk. Police officers should be able to keep their guns at work if they choose to. Guns and kids don't mix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio..._United_States

Quote:

Children
Prevention programs geared towards children have also not been greatly successful. Many inherent challenges arise when working with children, including their tendency to perceive themselves as invulnerable to injury, limited ability to apply lessons learned, their innate curiosity, and peer pressure that may encourage reckless behavior.

The goal of gun safety programs, usually administered by local firearms dealers and shooting clubs, is to teach older children and adolescents how to handle firearms safely. There has been no systematic evaluation of the effect of these programs on children. For adults, no positive effect on gun storage practices has been found as a result of these programs. Also, researchers have found that gun safety programs for children may likely increase a child's interest in obtaining and using guns, which they cannot be expected to use safely all the time, even with training.

http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

Quote:

FACT: A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present

Quote:

FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.

Quote:

FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
How can a responsible person know these things and still bring a gun into a home with children? I don't understand it.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
Um, wow. So your teen doesn't go to school? Is never at the mall? Doesn't walk on the sidewalk? Shootings happen. It's a horrible, tragic thing. But it does happen (and no, I don't believe gun control will stop it. Then the only people who will have guns will be the criminals







).

Police officers HAVE to have their guns on them. What if they get called out to an emergency in the middle of the night? Cops aren't just on work/off work at specific times. Personally, I'd rather police officers take their guns WITH them, and when called into a job, be able to go strait to the scene without having to stop to pick their gun up at the station, thereby saving time and possibly saving LIVES against a criminal threatening innocent people with a gun. Or of course, the cop could go to the scene without a firearm and then get shot and then who would help the victim?

Your views are very unrealistic.


Shootings happen in the US at the mall and on a corner. Not in Canada where I live because EVERYBODY DOESN'T HAVE A GUN! Telling me "shootings happens", (and rolling your eyes at me because I think kids have a right to be safe) does not strengthen your case.

Police need guns sometimes. Here in Canada, a country with gun control, the police hardly ever need a gun. Thinking gun control won't help is very unrealistic. Just look at the stats.


----------



## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

In a Canada in a North American perspective class, we looked at gun injuries and deaths, accidental or not, in Canada and the U.S., and teh difference was astronomical. Unbelievable really. The U.S. has 10x the people, but depending on the place hundreds to thousands times the gun injuries and deaths. It was often "responsible" gun owners and often involved children who "knew" gun safety. That also compared similar sized cities, socioeconomic make up, etc.

Different country. Different values.

Yes gun violence or gun accidents can and do happen here, but nothing on the scope of the U.S.

You can think I am paranoid. I don't care.


----------



## Malva (Nov 2, 2005)

To give a bit more background for US folks:

In Canada, unless you're a police officer or part of some shooting league, you do not own a handgun. If you do, you're most likely a criminal. Afaik, there is no such things as a permit to carry a concealed weapon here.

Some of us know maybe a few people who own a hunting shotgun. It gets used once a year for a hunting trip providing the hunter was lucky enough to win a hunting license (given by lottery in most places) that year.

And that's about it for our exposure to guns.

Needless to say, the vast majority of Canadians have never taken a firearms safety course, it's just not needed here. We can live our entire life without being anywhere near a gun of any kind.

I hope it explains our reaction a bit. There are alot of similarities between Canada and the US and we have lots in common. Attitude towards guns just isn't one of those things.


----------



## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Here's what I've taught her. If she ever sees a gun, in any circumstance, including if a child has one, she is to RUN. Gun = run. Run run run away. Don't talk about it, don't tell the other child to do anything, don't talk at all, just run home and *I'll call the police to have them take care of it.* I've quizzed her every so often on this. "What do you do if you ever see a gun?" "RUN!"

Have them take care of what? I can see if there's a gun lying around, but would you seriously call the cops if your child saw a gun on a locked gun case?


----------



## rmayherbs (Mar 19, 2008)

if the guns are properly secured and the parents are responsible gun owners, I see no problem with it. it is their constitutional right after all.
but if you have any doubts at all you do need to discuss this with your friend. find out if there are any unsecured firearms and find out what their children have been instructed to do upon seeing a gun. ds knows if he ever sees a gun to run and tell and adult immediately. he has also been exposed to guns and the idea of gun safety since he was able to hold one. he knows the rules, even if it is just with a pellet gun.

dh comes from a military family who didn't lock up their guns. my dad apparently had guns in the house when i was little that I didnt know about.
i used to be of the school of thought that guns were dangerous no matter what. i hated them. I changed my tune once I became familiar and educated about guns. they just don't fire themselves. the people are what's dangerous.

the other day, dh was messing around with a wooden civil war replica gun and happened (not intentionally) to point it at the dog. ds called him on it and said - "daddy, you're not supposed to point at anything you're not planning on shooting" and he's only 3!

up until ds was old enough, dh kept his gun loaded by the bedside. I did not like this and finally convinced him to get a lock box for it. ds does not have the dexterity to operate the lock box, and is not allowed into our room unattended. he still stores it loaded. he says - what good will the ammo do in another room is somebody is breaking into your house? i am still not thrilled with the idea, but at least it is well secured.

I was discussing this very issue with my grandmom and she plainly said, "we just didn't touch them" - her father apparently had quite a few guns around the house, always loaded, for hunting.
just a different generation, i guess.

i may be wrong on this, so no flames please, but statistically speaking, your child is more likely to drown in a mop bucket or be in a car accident than be shot.

you do what you need to do to make sure your kids are safe, and if you are not comfortable with the situation, get out of it. you're just being a good mama by being so concerned. to each his own.


----------

