# other children rude to your child - what to do?



## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

I have an incredibly social and outgoing almost 3 yr old daughter (she's an only child). She loves meeting new children and playing. Whenever we are out, whether the playground, walking around town, at the farmers market, when she sees other children, she wants to say hello and to meet them. However, what we're experiencing a lot is other children ignoring her or being rude to her. This happens a lot! She'll go up to a child and say "hi, I'm Stella, what's your name?" And the other child often does not respond or walks away and ignores her. It seems to be worse when the other child is a couple of years older than her, but it happens with kids her age as well. Sometimes, when the other kid's parents are there, they'll say "say hi." Sometimes they don't. She seems confused when this happens and sometimes will repeat what she just said and just get the same response. I worry that her feelings are being hurt and that repeated rejections will stifle her social and outgoing nature. I am uncertain on how to handle this. Should I discuss the incident with her after it happens? She doesn't ask me why it happens, but I can tell she's disappointed and sad. What would I say? That the other child wasn't being nice? How do I get her away from the other child when she insists on trying to say hi? Do I say something to the other child?


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

How cute! I think I would just wait and see how long it lasts... I don't think she will be stifled--she will just learn to pick up on others' social cues. Learning that is pretty complex and takes a lot of trial and error.

Does she have a community (preschool or other group) where she can foster friendships and build relationships with other children?


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

She's been taking Music Together classes since she was 6 or 7 months old. She's known all the kids there since then - it's usually the same core group and a couple of new kids every new session. No other formal classes, but we go to the playground and have an occasional play-dates (my husband and I both work and my parents, who are with her during the day, aren't up for play-dates).


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

I don't know that it's other kids being "rude" exactly - some kids that age get stranger anxiety or are just shy. My 3 year old is kind of hit or miss about things like that. I encourage her to reciprocate communication, but I can't force her either.

Honestly, I think it's just part of early childhood that all kids face, and it likely won't have any lasting effects on your daughter's socialization.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

Usually I don't think young children are intentionally "rude", I think that is a label we adults give to our interpretation of the behavior. The behavior you describe could have many different meaning, here are the first that pop into my head:

*Stranger anxiety

*The child takes a while to warm up to a new playmate

*The child is busy playing and doesn't feel like talking at the moment

*The child may only want to play with other children whom are similar in age


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

I used the word "rude" because I didn't know how else to describe it - as an adult I would label someone rude if I said hello to them and they ignored me. However, I certainly would never label a 3-year old rude, but I do think that a 7 or 8 year old knows that it is polite to say hi when someone says hi to you. I don't expect other kids to want to play with my daughter, but when they seem to completely ignore her, it mades me very sad for her.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katc8910*
> 
> I used the word "rude" because I didn't know how else to describe it - as an adult I would label someone rude if I said hello to them and they ignored me. However, I certainly would never label a 3-year old rude, but I do think that a 7 or 8 year old knows that it is polite to say hi when someone says hi to you. I don't expect other kids to want to play with my daughter, but when they seem to completely ignore her, it mades me very sad for her.


I don't know... if someone walked up to me-- my age or whatever... and said "Hi What is your name?" while I was going about my business at the farmer's market, etc. I don't think I would feel obligated to respond. And yes, I might ignore them. Does that make me rude?

And 7 or 8 year olds are not mini adults, they are still children . . . and expecting them to respond to your child's whim so that she is never sad seems like a steep expectation. A child ignoring a stranger when they do not want to speak with them isn't really offensively impolite. Again, it goes back to social cues. Is the other child making eye contact with your child? Are they sharing an experience--other then being in the same space?

I think I would just explain that some people are just minding their own business, perhaps they are just enjoying their interior space and do not want to talk. But to make them out as rude or make it seem like your child is harmed seems to be doing a bigger disservice then these other children keeping to themselves.

Part of life is realizing that yes, sometimes people will ignore you. But it shouldn't cause you harm or always be perceived as ill-mannered. And these strangers don't seem like they are acting to deliberately harm your child.

Perhaps she could participate in a 1/2 day preschool?


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

how is this of any use? The OP talked about being out in public-playground, street etc.

Quote:


> Perhaps she could participate in a 1/2 day preschool?


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## parsley (May 7, 2011)

I have a four year old daughter who hates when people come and interrupt what she's doing. She is typically really concentrating on whatever she's doing and is not willing or able to break off and welcome the interruption from someone talking to her. She is also in preschool and engages in lots of structured and unstructured socializing with a very diverse range of kids (age and abilities). When she's out with me or DH, she's very invested in playing whatever we are playing. So, when a kid approaches her at the playground, farmers market, etc... she doesn't want to play with them. Her solution is not to reply because she knows that once she starts talking she's likely to have to play with them even though she doesn't want to. She's trying to work on saying "Hi. I don't want to play right now." But, sometimes that's not enough to shake off the friendly kid!

I offer this detailed glimpse into my DD's mindset because I hate the idea that you'd tell your daughter that mine was being rude. She wasn't! She isn't thinking mean things about the other kid. She is just busy and invested in doing her own thing. And, I think it would hurt your daughters feelings to think that everyone is walking around being rude to her!


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

My daughter is the same way and she's also an only. She would walk up, introduce herself, and ask the other child's name. Blank stare. Don't people teach their children basic manners? It's just odd to me that a three year old can't say, "hi, I'm Jack." I'm sure there are a few children with actual anxiety, but I think lots of people just don't teach their children how to be polite and function in a world that has other people in it.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Sometimes she chooses to say "hi, my name is ..., what's your name." Sometimes, it's just "hi". And yes, if I was at a farmers market and an adult stranger shopping at the same table said hello or good morning, I would think it rude not to reply. I think it's just common courtesy and I want to teach my daughter how to be courteous to others. Saying hello in response isn't implying that we will have a conversation or become friends; it's just acknowledging another person, a member of my community. That's how I was raised. I'm not expecting the kids to want to play with her. Nor am I trying to shield her from all life's pain. I was looking for ways to either address the situation as it is happening or later, one-on-one with DD.

I wish I could change the topic line of this thread to remove the word rude...


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

NiteNicole, thank you for your post. I was starting to feel like an alien here.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Blank stare.


this is what we find from the MAJORITY of children- very very few talk, let alone say "hi"- all types of public setting (playground, FM, grocery, general stores, streets- you name it) and I will say (I am an older mom) this is NEW!

Quote:


> I have a four year old daughter who hates when people come and interrupt what she's doing. She is typically really concentrating on whatever she's doing and is not willing or able to break off and welcome the interruption from someone talking to her. She is also in preschool and engages in lots of structured and unstructured socializing with a very diverse range of kids (age and abilities). When she's out with me or DH, she's very invested in playing whatever we are playing. So, when a kid approaches her at the playground, farmers market, etc... she doesn't want to play with them. Her solution is not to reply because she knows that once she starts talking she's likely to have to play with them even though she doesn't want to. She's trying to work on saying "Hi. I don't want to play right now." But, sometimes that's not enough to shake off the friendly kid!


I don't think this example speaks to the majority of children.


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## parsley (May 7, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I don't think this example speaks to the majority of children.


Why not?


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## dejagerw (Jan 5, 2010)

Is your 3 year old's speech very clear? Is there a chance the kids don't understand what she's saying? Granted "Hi" is pretty easy to understand, but "Hi, my name's Stella what's your name" might be hard in toddler speak.

Also, what are the ages of the kids she's approaching. Another 2 and under, maybe even a young 3 and under might not be able to speak as well as she.

My son is also very social, and he says high to everyone as well. To be honest, I can't even really recall if people respond back. Adults usually do. I really wouldn't worry about her being stifled. Maybe you could explain to her that some kids are shy and take some time to warm up before talking to others, or some young kids can't talk yet. (obviously I wouldn't say this right in front of the other kid though).


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes, her speach is very clear. She is also very verbal for her age. But sometimes she just says hi and that's it. Most of the kids are her age or older so they should be able to say hi back.

I think your suggestion to explain to her that some kids are shy and take some time to warm up is a good one - thank you (and, no, I'd never say it in front of the other child).


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I know for us, my child's speech is very clear and easy to understand and I know in our case (since this has happened so often) these are children that are speaking the same language as my DS and this is happening to us with children in a large age range-4, 5's not just 2's.

Quote:


> Why not?


Are you stating that the majority of children are too busy (engaged, etc)?

I strong beg to differ with your assessment. It seems like this is the case with your child, I do not see this as relative to the majority, this is just not happening to my child or even just to the OP's-speaking IRL to other mom's this is occurring very often and it's clearly new.


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## Carlin (Oct 14, 2006)

Katc, my daughter(who just turned 3) is exactly, exactly the same. For the most part, when other children don't respond she just shakes it off, and goes to find another, more responsive playmate, or keeps playing and eventually the other kids will join in. If she does seem sad or upset, I'll explain that the other child doesn't want to play right now, or that sometimes kids are shy and might be afraid to talk to someone they don't know. I try not to frame it as kids not being nice, as that doesn't really clarify the situation for her.

I absolutely would not talk to or approach the other kid, unless they are being genuinely rude, mean or dangerous. The only exception to that is if they just don't quite understand what she's saying. Her vocabulary out does her pronunciation at times, and if the kids are just confused, I might translate, otherwise I leave the kids to sort it out on their own.

I wish we could get our kids together to play! It sounds like they'd get along fantastically!


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> how is this of any use? The OP talked about being out in public-playground, street etc.


just more social experience with observing and picking up on social cues... and just more experience that sometimes even friends will ignore us, but it is no big deal. She just sounds socially thirsty. A regular playgroup or homeschool group might work as well.

Originally Posted by *NiteNicole* 



> My daughter is the same way and she's also an only. She would walk up, introduce herself, and ask the other child's name. Blank stare. Don't people teach their children basic manners? It's just odd to me that a three year old can't say, "hi, I'm Jack." I'm sure there are a few children with actual anxiety, but I think lots of people just don't teach their children how to be polite and function in a world that has other people in it.


Wow. Just because the child doesn't respond the way you expect doesn't mean people don't teach their children manners. Children are children... not little adults. Just because you teach a child something doesn't mean they will do it in every instance... My kids can tie their shoes but they still walk around with their laces untied.. .

My 2 year old sits on our porch greets everyone who passes by--everyone! If they don't stop and talk to him, I don't assume they are rude, and it isn't hurtful to him...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katc8910*
> 
> Sometimes she chooses to say "hi, my name is ..., what's your name." Sometimes, it's just "hi". And yes, if I was at a farmers market and an adult stranger shopping at the same table said hello or good morning, I would think it rude not to reply. I think it's just common courtesy and I want to teach my daughter how to be courteous to others. Saying hello in response isn't implying that we will have a conversation or become friends; it's just acknowledging another person, a member of my community. That's how I was raised. I'm not expecting the kids to want to play with her. Nor am I trying to shield her from all life's pain. I was looking for ways to either address the situation as it is happening or later, one-on-one with DD.
> 
> I wish I could change the topic line of this thread to remove the word rude...


For what it is worth, I am highly introverted and often what is going on in my mind does distract me from other people's pleasantries... I will smile, and nod, but not always respond verbally. I doubt that will really make another person sad or think me rude... I am just not always chatty. LOL But with adults there is usually other nonverbal cues that happen prior to the verbal communication. These are subtle and we probably take them for granted. Its been my observation that they don't always happen with children prior to the verbal interaction.

What is perceived as rude to adults isn't always rude to children. I like Carlin's response-- sounds perfect.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> I know for us, my child's speech is very clear and easy to understand and I know in our case (since this has happened so often) these are children that are speaking the same language as my DS and this is happening to us with children in a large age range-4, 5's not just 2's.
> 
> ...


Clearly new? Perhaps new to you? Have you been observing your 3 year-old having these kids of social reactions for more then 3 years? LOL I have been a parent for 12 years and watched 4 very different children go through this... a lot of it depends on the child and how they cue the other child nonverbally, etc.

I think our memory of how it was when we were children can be distorted, and what we thought it was like as kids isn't always how it was...


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Clearly new? Perhaps new to you? Have you been observing your 3 year-old having these kids of social reactions for more then 3 years? LOL


you are very mistaken, I have been dealing with toddlers for 3+ years- over 40 in fact- this is not the case even 10 years ago!


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> you are very mistaken, I have been dealing with toddlers for 3+ years- over 40 in fact- this is not the case even 10 years ago!


My oldest son is 12. When he went through the stage where he had to greet and talk to everyone, some kids responded, some didn't. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the rate of response to my now 2 year old when he sits out on the porch and says hi to everyone! Or talks to everyone at school pick ups, parks, etc.

Some kids want to play with my 2 yo, some kids don't.

Again, I think adults often assume that everyone acted a certain way... but social norms are learned... some cultures find it rude to smile at strangers... is that terribly rude of them, then?

Politeness is a cultural norm, not a moral issue.


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## mamandedeux (Jan 15, 2010)

My 2.5 year old would likely respond because he likes it when kids come up to him, but my 5 year old is very shy, and would not.

Young children (yes, even an 8 year old, IMO) don't have the social tools to know how to respond in an adult-appropriate way when in social situations. So the ignoring and silence could be taken to mean ''I don't want to talk to you'', ''I'm too shy to respond'', or even ''don't bother me''. All perfectly valid and fine, and no, I don't think a child should be forced or made to say hi if they clearly don't feel compelled to do so. Your daughter will eventually get it that not everyone wants to be friendly to her, and she'll be just fine.

It is NOT a question of manners. It's a question of social development.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamandedeux*
> 
> My 2.5 year old would likely respond because he likes it when kids come up to him, but my 5 year old is very shy, and would not.
> 
> ...


I agree with this... and grace and courtesy are learned behaviors. But just because they don't play out in every instance to our expectation doesn't mean that they are not being taught.


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## Bokonon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forestmushroom*
> 
> I agree with this... and grace and courtesy are learned behaviors. But just because they don't play out in every instance to our expectation doesn't mean that they are not being taught.


I agree.

My 7yo talks to everyone. My 3yo wouldn't even talk to mine and my husband's best friends she has seen frequently since birth until recently. I don't know why. She was painfully shy and would hide from them. Then after she turned 3, something clicked and she became much more outgoing, but is still very reserved around some people. And she is now much more likely to strike up a conversation with an adult woman than a child her own age.

My husband and I teach and model manners and politeness - but we can't force our kids to do everything they've been taught every time, nor would I want to. I do want them to understand that not every stranger is a friend, and it's ok to be oneself and guarded if that's what's comfortable for them.


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## EmbraceLife (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi. You are very fortunate to have a verbal and social child at such a young age. It sounds like she is really excelling with her development.

I recently had a conversation with another mom who was extremely upset because a mother brought her nine year old son into the women's bathroom to let him use it. That nine year old could have had the functioning of a five year old .. and in the town I live in, the store security person at a Walmart was recently arrested for video taping a little boy in the stall next to him.

I'll share the same thing with you that I shared with her ... sometimes our children LOOK perfectly "normal". Sometimes, under that perfectly "normal" looking child is a developmental disability which isn't visible to the eye. Anyway, Some brains process everything differently, some slowly, some brains don't have the ability to be social, some children cannot point, some are non verbal ... some wear the labels of pervasive developmental disability, autism, and others that are "not seen". Sometimes a "disability" is obvious such as down syndrome or cerebral palsy ... but other times, these "disfunctions" ... are not visible.

In my life, it is often troubling and difficult to know WHAT to say to someone when they smile at my child, wave at my child, speak to my child ... and he doesn't respond. Some BIG people are "rude" because before I get a chance to explain anything ... they say "why don't you teach your kid some manners".

My child doesn't "speak when spoken to". My child shuts down when approached by a stranger and he does this by having a blank stare and if they would push the issue or touch him ... then it turns into a scream. We're in therapy and we're working on this. He's not even TWO yet so we hold onto hope and prayers!

Anyway, this is NOT about us ... I just thought I'd share this so you could keep this in mind as your daughter meets different kids. Hopefully some of them will respond positively to her. I think the parents should at least speak to you and your child! None of us are alike and even those with "disfunctions" are going to have some amazing gifts. It sounds like she has some great social skills ... keep encouraging it!

Best wishes!


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Out if my 3 kids that are older then 3, I have one that "might" respond to a child saying hi. And this is fairly recent, she is 9, as of two years ago she would not of. They are not rude, in fact I get complements daily on their behavior. The nine year old has social anxiety and now takes Zoloft and hence the reason she might say hi now that she is medicated. My 5.5 year old is just shy, she is never going to talk to a stranger regardless if they are a child or an adult. My 3 year looks normal but is ASD. He is only minimally verbal and gets downright aggressive if another child gets into his space, he stays off by himself for a reason.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

I wish we could get our kids together to play! It sounds like they'd get along fantastically!
[/quote]

I'd love too! I'm in northern NJ.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

  I've never seen my DD ignore a child saying hi or an adult for that matter. She always says hi back.  And I have not ever told her how to react - my husband and I don't cue her to say hello or thank you, etc. - she does it on her own based on learning from us - we model the behavior and don't believe in forcing thank you's, etc.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

OP - if your dd is becoming somewhat distressed by other kids' reactions, what about brainstorming some other things to say AFTER her initial greeting. Like 'It's a great day to be at the park isn't it?', 'This is my favorite park', 'Do you want to climb on this with me?'. If she's seeking conversation or a playmate, a bit more than just 'hi' or introduction would help her get that across to someone else.

If she's just really enthusiastic about meeting people, even just 'I really love to meeting new kids at the park. I just wanted to say hi since I'm having a lot of fun today'.

As for what my own kids do, they might smile or say hi, or not (there are some park activities they get intensely into and don't like to be distracted about







, or some days aren't as into playing with other people). I don't think the doing any one thing or not is or should be a problem. It's just a case of other kids doing their own thing and your dd doing hers, and it really won't always jive. Unless someone is being overtly rude, I don't think it's really about manners either.

I mean, if I were at a coffeeshop doing my own thing and someone came up and was all 'Hi, what's your name?' I wouldn't always be enthusiastic about a new interaction with someone I don't know. But sometimes I would be. And that should be okay, yk?

added: I just glanced through the OP again, too. In incidents when my dd's been approached by some other kid and is feeling timid, I often step in and will say that we're happy to meet you and not really in a mood to stop and talk/play right now. Something like that. I'd consider stepping in and say something like 'We love meeting other kids here, thanks for letting us say hi' in some cases if it seems appropriate.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Mumkinmum - I really like your suggestion to step in and say 'We love meeting other kids here, thanks for letting us say hi". I think that could make the approached child feel more comfortable about being approached with such enthusiasm and at the same conveying to my DD that the other child may not be in the mood for an interaction. Thanks!


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## TuiNZ (Jun 23, 2011)

I would HATE to think that other parents think my DS1 is being rude when he doesn't say 'hi' back, without knowing absolutely anything about him. .. In fact I would consider that to be quite rude. Such off-hand comment reminds me of a friend who has a severely disabled 8 year old and once she put him in a stroller, instead of a wheel chair, in order not to draw too much attention to him and his disability. Well, it didn't work as, almost immediately, she heard someone say "Look at that! I can't believe how lazy some parents are!" Of course, she snapped and made that person feel stupid for her comment.

I'm lucky that my DS1 is a normal child but he is painfully shy. He takes a while to warm up to others (even people he's met before). Once he does he is fine and social. DS2, on the other hand, is most likely to have the opposite (i.e. extroverted) personality despite the fact that our parenting style is the same. And don't get me wrong, we do model the behaviour for DS1 by being friendly towards others. I want him to be sociable and to find it easy to communicate with others. But he's not and I need to respect that that's who he is.

All I'm saying is, think before you judge. You're lucky to have a sociable little girl, but not all kids are the same.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TuiNZ*
> 
> I would HATE to think that other parents think my DS1 is being rude when he doesn't say 'hi' back, without knowing absolutely anything about him. .. In fact I would consider that to be quite rude. Such off-hand comment reminds me of a friend who has a severely disabled 8 year old and once she put him in a stroller, instead of a wheel chair, in order not to draw too much attention to him and his disability. Well, it didn't work as, almost immediately, she heard someone say "Look at that! I can't believe how lazy some parents are!" Of course, she snapped and made that person feel stupid for her comment.
> 
> ...


If you had read all of my posts, you would have seen that I regret using the word rude and wish I had used another descriptive word.

Also, I started this thread to get ideas on how to help my DD deal with rejection, not go get lectured. If you have nothing constructive to add, please don't reply to my posts.


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## grethel (Mar 14, 2009)

I have a very social little girl too, close to the same age as yours. She's very interested in manners and will often introduce herself, offer her hand and say "Nice to meet you!" Sometimes people reply, and sometimes they don't. I am not offended in the least when people don't feel like responding - especially strangers in public - and the way I help her deal with it is, first, to not make a deal of it at all. I ignore that it happened unless she seems confused, or if she keeps trying to talk to the person (ie doesn't get their clues that they're not interested), or if she mentions it to me. In those cases, I just shrug and say "I guess he/she doesn't feel like talking right now," or "Looks like he/she is busy doing something else." Then we move on. It's important to me that she realizes that everything's not all about her. We practice and model polite behavior no matter what the other person does, and I'm hoping she can learn from an early age to let this stuff roll off.

As a somewhat introverted person myself, though, I'm pretty sensitive to that. If a stranger came up to me in the produce section and said, "Hi, I'm Jane, what's your name?" I honestly would be a little taken aback. As an adult, I can deal with it gracefully, but a little kid may not have learned that skill yet. It sounds like your child has a natural talent and proclivity for verbal interaction, which is great and will serve her well! Other kids may have different strengths. I know that when I expect another child to do things the same way mine does, or to have the same things come easy, I end up really shortchanging the other child.

Like others have said, there are plenty of reasons a child or adult might not choose to respond or even smile, and it's almost certainly nothing personal. It can be hard to remember that sometimes when we see our precious little ones being so adorable and open, and getting squashed.


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## andromedajulie (May 28, 2011)

This has happened to my DD1 (age 9) so many times I can't believe it - with kids her own age. And I just watched it happen for the first time with my 23 month old (saying hi to a 5 and 7 year old who were NOT shy). While I agree that some children have stranger anxiety, especially young ones, I do not think that is the case primarily in what I have seen. I think there is some kind of cultural thing going on where children are learning unfriendliness. I have been just incredulous to watch this happen time and time again. You are not crazy!

I don't know where you live but the other thing is that we are on the east coast, and when we go home to OR to visit family, my daughter notices how friendly people are, they just talk to you.

And yeah. It does hurt my 9 year old. I commiserate with her that people are indeed not being friendly. Meanwhile, my 2 yo looks confused when this happens, not knowing if she's talking right  - I don't want her to learn not to say hi. Ugh!


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## Carlin (Oct 14, 2006)

Katc, unfortunately we are around 2000 miles away, in Edmonton, Alberta,so I guess playdates are out of the question.

I'm sorry this thread got a bit off topic. I know I struggle with finding age appropriate ways to describe the nuances of social interaction to my social butterfly child too, and kind of try to ease the way both for her and for the other children involved. As a bit of an introvert myself, I definitely understand where they are coming from but that's hard to explain to a 3 year old who just wants to play! I really like Mumkimum's suggestions about helping your daughter develop some conversation starters too.

One thing that's really helped us is to find a nice, mixed age group of kids for her to play with on a regular basis. That way she has friends who know her and are more than happy to play with her, and exposure to various age groups really seems to help her develop some social strategies. I've also found that as she's matured a little over the last few months she's developing a bit of a softer touch so I don't worry about it as much as I used to. I'm usually pretty impressed by her ability to engage other kids without being pushy or demanding.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andromedajulie*
> 
> This has happened to my DD1 (age 9) so many times I can't believe it - with kids her own age. And I just watched it happen for the first time with my 23 month old (saying hi to a 5 and 7 year old who were NOT shy). While I agree that some children have stranger anxiety, especially young ones, I do not think that is the case primarily in what I have seen. I think there is some kind of cultural thing going on where children are learning unfriendliness. I have been just incredulous to watch this happen time and time again. You are not crazy!
> 
> ...


I'm also on the east coast, NJ. Perhaps it is a cultural thing. We were in CO last year and people are definitely more social and friendly there. I'm talking about adults, I don't remember any interactions with kids.

I have the same concern as you - I don't want my daughter to stop being social and outgoing (I was, and still am to an extent, pretty shy and introverted when around new people, when I was younger and I don't want that for her). The kids that she does know and play with regularly all love her because is is so friendly.

I also posted my concerns on an Attachment Parenting forum and was relieved to hear from other parents whose kids had gone through the same experiences and years later still remained social and extroverted.


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

This happens to our 3 yr old DD too. But, she also does it to other kids too!

I think part of it is that kids that little say hi by getting right up into others personal space. So other kids are taken aback.

And I think that kids that age want to be in control. When my DD says hi to others, she is in control. But if another kid comes up put of nowhere and days hi to her, all of a sudden it is someone in her space, she wasn't expecting it, and she is not in control of it. So she ignores them, or turns away, or just stares at them.

Sometimes I think that part of it is that kids do not necessarily understand her. My DD is VERY verbal. Talks in complete sentences that we have NO PROBLEM understanding. But others do not understand everything she says the first time. Sometimes it is hard for me to remember because we understand everything she says.

It doesn't seem to bother her too too much if it is a stranger. It seems to confuse her a bit, but not bother her.

But if it is a friend of hers, well, that bothers her. And she will just sit there repeating herself over and over again, getting louder and louder and will not drop it until the other kid says hi. This happened this weekend with a 4 yr old friend of hers. It was at a festival and he was already just chilling after being overwhelmed with thousands of people. I finally had to step in and go say hi to him and basically tell him DD was just wanting to say hi. He said Hi back and she was satisfied.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carlin*
> 
> Katc, unfortunately we are around 2000 miles away, in Edmonton, Alberta,so I guess playdates are out of the question.
> 
> ...


Too far for a playdate ideed 

As I said to *andromedajulie*, I am also introverted and that makes it harder for me to watch these interactions because I so want my daughter to remain social and outgoing. I've struggled with my shyness all my life and always wished I could have been more social.

I am really looking forward to my daughter starting pre-school in September. I think the Montessori environment and the mixed age classroom will allow her to develop her social skills.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katc8910*
> And I have not ever told her how to react - my husband and I don't cue her to say hello or thank you, etc. - she does it on her own based on learning from us - we model the behavior and don't believe in forcing thank you's, etc.


IME, this is largely due to your child's nature. I have 2 kids; I've modeled small talk/social niceties for both of them like crazy, I am a very outgoing, talkative person. The firstborn was outgoing and friendly from the get go like me and he picked up social queues right away; second born took until she was almost 5 to stop scowling, harumphing, and loudly saying, STOP LOOKING AT ME to people who tried to enngage her (other kids and adults). I was basically mortified on a regular basis in public with her from 2-5 yrs old, and spent a lot of time mitigating that to the poor people who tried to talk to her :lol:, and helping her through it. It was certainly not for lack of teaching. Now? She will talk to anyone and everyone about anything and everything. I can totally see kids her age (6) or even older, who may be otherwise "normal" kids, taking even longer to really get it. Acknowledging a person you don't know who approaches you in public requires a certain set of skills that not every person, and even fewer kids than adults, have...and only a part of this is "manners".

OP, for your daughter, I'd just focus on talking with her about how different people having different ideas about how to interact with strangers, and that she should go into any approach she makes being OK with saying hi and not getting a response back.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

It doesn't happen as much to adults because adults pick up on social cues as to whom they should or should not approach.

Your dd will figure out who is approachable with maturity, and other kids will become better at responding or showing in non-verbal ways that they don't want conversation with maturity.


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## abouttobe5 (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi there,

I've read through all the posts and find it interesting the responses. I have two children (third on the way) - the oldest is more outgoing but still has her shy moments. The youngest is definitely shy and would be the child that doesn't respond to yours if approached. But it's not that he's ignoring your daughter...he's just not as open as my oldest.

My oldest (5 years old) and I have had conversations on this. Similar situation to yours but then also when she doesn't feel like responding to a stranger (child or adult). I have to remind her when she feels like someone else isn't responding to her that not everyone feels like talking or not everyone is outgoing and wants to engage in conversation.

I think if anything this is a great opportunity to talk to your daughter about different personalities and what to expect. Even as adults, there are people who are less engaging than others and I've learned how to communicate with them versus someone who is outgoing or even gregarious. I like the idea of follow up questions to further engage but then also give her the confidence to trust in herself if someone dis-engages from her conversation to know it's not about her, but instead it's just the difference between how people feel comfortable with meeting new people.

Thank goodness everyone is unique and we're not all the same. It gives us opportunities to learn and grow and this can be applied in so many areas of our life. And to be able to have this lesson even as young as 3 is awesome - think of how much more interactive and understanding she will be in 5, 10, 15, 20 years if she can learn to communicate with so many different personalities and levels of comfort with strangers/new people. As a child I was painfully shy (almost hindering me in some places) and it took me a while to become more comfortable in public with new people or public speaking. But it sounds like your daughter has a leg up in that respect.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> OP, for your daughter, I'd just focus on talking with her about how different people having different ideas about how to interact with strangers, and that she should go into any approach she makes being OK with saying hi and not getting a response back.


I like that approach.


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## tis_unnatural (Jun 23, 2007)

Oh, I feel your pain. My 21-month-old son isn't necessarly a social butterfly, but if we're out somewhere (like the grocery store), he will say hi to many of the little kids we pass. I can't recall a single time a kid has returned his hi (and it's not a matter of not understanding him; he clearly says hi and waves). It breaks my heart to see him ignored over and over and see his confused and sad expression. But at the same time, if another kid were to walk up to him and start talking, he most likely wouldn't return the hi either. Kids are funny that way.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abouttobe5*
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> ...


I like the idea that this is an opportunity to learn about how different people feel about meeting new people.


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## LAMargarita (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi there,

My 4 yo sounds exactly like your daughter. She's been very social, although not really that verbal, since she was 2 yo.

The ways that we ease her when she gets no response is to say something like "I think he/she does not feel like talking/playing now, what don't we go and __fill in the blank___" . She's been fine with that most times.

She's also been to Pre-k for a couple of years and she's happy as a clam with all her friends there, not sure if this is in your plans. For us it help with making friends that we can call upon for playdates during the weekends but more importantly to show her that she can be friends with children that took sometime warming up to her and that may be not as sociable as she is.

It also helps that we live in a very small town in central Va where there are children and adults everywhere ready to talk to strangers. Whenever we've been abroad she's had a hell of a time, but even then she's been able to make people smile. If nothing else it has make her persevere on her goal of meeting new people 

Good luck!


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## Jcma (May 5, 2012)

I think it's great that she's so outgoing. Hopefully that confidence will stick with her. As someone who has never had the confidence to initiate friendships that easily, I would explain to her that some people are shy and not expecting someone to talk to them. I think it's very likely that they aren't really rejecting her. Maybe they're just caught off guard, and at that age probably don't know the socially appropriate response. I agree that if an adult ignored someone's greeting it would be rude, unless the greeter obviously had ulterior motives. I agree with the others that reading social cues is something that will develop with time, but it's not really relevant when she is initiating the interaction. What cue is there to read before she's made contact? Tell her hello for me!


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## ladytigerfairy (Oct 17, 2010)

I think its very important for your child to be part of a regular class or Playgroup! I have a three year old also very social who sometimes makes random friends at Parks but you never see them again where as he was part of a preschool class all year and as a core group they were able to develop friendships over time. My friends who have three year also not in preschool also struggle with this issue because Parks are kind of random. You don't know the kids they could be shy and other things or just had a bad day. It would be very beneficial to have your daughter be part of a group that meets over time twice a week or something.

I have also seen my son get upset now that he has "friends" when we go to a park and nobody he recognizes is there... he will also try to make friends with stranger kids with sometimes similar results as your daughter... but its softened by him usually being part of consistent groups.. so he doesn't seem bothered by it and has the context of "strangers at the park " versus his familiar Playgroup buddies...

Good luck!


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LAMargarita*
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> ...


My daughter has friends from her Music Together class (mixed-age) and local friends' children. She'll be starting preschool at a Montessori this September and we are all very excited about it!


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## ladytigerfairy (Oct 17, 2010)

I also just read thatvuour daughter is home during the week all day with your parents.. that means she's not getting any peer interaction and is seeking out a lot at the playground especialy if its one of her only opportunities to be social! My son would be going crazy if he were with my parents all week! Have your parents drop her off twice a week to some sort of half day preschool.. you will notice a huge difference!!! Best of luck.. sure it will work out!


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ladytigerfairy*
> 
> I also just read thatvuour daughter is home during the week all day with your parents.. that means she's not getting any peer interaction and is seeking out a lot at the playground especialy if its one of her only opportunities to be social! My son would be going crazy if he were with my parents all week! Have your parents drop her off twice a week to some sort of half day preschool.. you will notice a huge difference!!! Best of luck.. sure it will work out!


My daughter has been attending Music Together classes since she was about 6 months old. She also has playdates with my local friends' children and her cousins. My parents are with her 1/2 day - I'm home at 2 pm. She'll be starting preschool at a Montessori this September. I think preschool will be great for her!


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I also just read thatvuour daughter is home during the week all day with your parents.. *that means she's not getting any peer interaction and is seeking out a lot at the playground especialy if its one of her only opportunities to be social!* My son would be going crazy if he were with my parents all week! Have your parents drop her off twice a week to some sort of half day preschool.. you will notice a huge difference!!! Best of luck.. sure it will work out!


I beg to differ- I don't think you get this.

I know for us my DS does have peer interaction and that is not what he is seeking in saying hi and being ignored. It occurs at NON-play date/class programs- in general every day setting- when you see people and for the most part many adults are friendly and the children simply are not. Everyday events, going to the store, market, playground, etc. places were interaction with other you do not know well takes place. It's like seeing the parent say hello or respond to a greeting and the child does the same only to be totally ignored by their peers.

I have found most parents (of children who do not say anything or even gesture-those who mostly just stand there and do not engage at all) are clueless that their children are not responding they are so wrapped up in their own little world to even notice.

I also am not a proponent of planned out play date all the time- the park/playground does not have to be with only those you know, there is a lot to be said about non scheduled, non parent directed activities and the benefits from simple spontaneous interactions.


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## kgraham (Jan 25, 2010)

I think the answer to your question lies in the responses. You should take one for the team and say "hi" to the parent of the child your LO is trying to greet. If the parent says "hi" back to you they get a chance to model the expected behavior to their child and it will make for a friendlier world some day. If the parent gives you the cold shoulder too your child will see that this happens to everyone. Apparently not everyone thinks its worth while to answer strangers.

The replies made me laugh. Yes, ignoring a person saying "hi" to you is rude in the US. There are other cultures and countries where the child saying "hi" to a stranger is the one being rude, but I'm pretty sure Miss Manners would agree with me on this. Don't we all want our kids to be friendly?

If your child ignores someone who is saying hi to them (and you wish they wouldn't) I think you should say hi to the child yourself. Oh, and read The Little Blue Truck at home. As a parent of a child with special needs this is one of those things that goes on IEP goals and is the focus of therapy sessions. It's that important!


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kgraham*
> 
> I think the answer to your question lies in the responses. You should take one for the team and say "hi" to the parent of the child your LO is trying to greet. If the parent says "hi" back to you they get a chance to model the expected behavior to their child and it will make for a friendlier world some day. If the parent gives you the cold shoulder too your child will see that this happens to everyone. Apparently not everyone thinks its worth while to answer strangers.
> 
> ...


Modeling the behavior is how my husband and I choose to teach manners. While my DD always says hi back, she sometimes doesn't say thank you right away because she's excited about the present she just received or really interested in it. When that happens I simply say thank you to the person and that's it. Most of the time, DD will say thank you eventually.

I do say hi to the parent if DD says hi to the child. I don't think I've ever had a parent not say hi back.

We actually had a lovely experience yesterday. We spent the morning at a nature preserve including doing a group tour. DD said hi to a couple of kids. A 5-6 year old girl let her play with her binoculars and even showed her how to use them. When DD said hi to a boy of about 7, he said hi back and then said "she's so cute." Later when she tried to hold his hand while walking to another area, he totally held her hand while chatting with us about something that happened to him recently. It was a really nice day!


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## anjsmama (Apr 6, 2011)

Having been on both sides of the fence, I think you should just explain to your daughter what happened simply. "I guess he wasn't comfortable to talk right now, sweetie, it's nothing you did. Everyone feels different in new situations."

I'm sure plenty of parents and children believed my 3 year old DS was rude... But his speech was lacking and he got very anxious that other children couldn't understand him. He's now just shy of 4 and though he still can't say his name properly, other kids understand pretty much everything he says now. He used to be the blank stare kid, and now he's the one who runs up and says "Hi, I'm Au-don (Austin) , do you want to be friends? " and often other 3,4, and 5 year olds will say nothing or hide behind their parents... I just remind DS everyone feels different on new situations and encourage him to see if there's someone else who would like to play.


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## Katc8910 (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjsmama*
> 
> Having been on both sides of the fence, I think you should just explain to your daughter what happened simply. "I guess he wasn't comfortable to talk right now, sweetie, it's nothing you did. Everyone feels different in new situations.".


I like your suggestion. Thank you.


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## hollase (May 11, 2011)

Same thing happens to my little guy - it never fails to break my heart. I will often say, out loud, that the other child may be feeling shy and if he (my son) wants to talk, I would be happy to talk to him. I like to explain the situation so its less awkward for the child who isn't responding and less of a negative experience for my son. If he inquires as to why they didn't respond, I tell him the truth - that not all children are comfortable with saying hello to people they don't know, that some children feel shy sometimes, that some children can't think of the right words to say. I use it as an opportunity for him to understand others better...but, like I mentioned before - it never fails to break my heart.


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## Lenore K. (Apr 22, 2009)

I have read only the first page and a few other posts. My daughter is now eight. When she was younger she went through the same thing and I, too, experienced some heartache when this happened to her. She would get this real dumbfounded look on her face and could not understand it. Sometimes she experienced some sadness or looked sad, but then she would recover and move on to someone or something else. I started explaining to her that some kids are shy and you need to give them some space and maybe they will play, but they might not. Some children are told not to talk to strangers so maybe they are just listening to their parents. It looks like she or he is very busy playing right now maybe they will play later.

The kids that are just plain rude (they are usually the older ones), I would sometimes say to her that they are still learning their playground manners and then redirect her to someone or something else. When she became more verbal, she would actually sometimes ask the parent if their child could play with her, if she thought they couldn't talk to strangers or were too shy. The more social experience she got the better she was at handling it and figuring out who wanted to play and who didn't. Or how to wait for signals to know when a slow-to-warm-up child is ready to play. It is all part of learning how to deal with the little personality she is becoming.

She has an older sister who was a very-slow-to-warm-up child. She also went through this in her own way. It is all about learning how to be who they are and social creatures. It is heart-wrenching at times, but just be there for her to help navigate through some sticky situations. She will probably be just fine.


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

Both my son (5) and daughter (4) are like your kiddo, OP. My son for some reason seems to get replies back much of the time he says hi to other kids, but DD rarely if ever gets a positive reply, and she's been starting to be sad and say things about it like "no one wants to play with me" and such. We're starting her in preschool in the fall specifically to get her some social time.

I think it is a cultural phenomenon where many parents have such busy social lives and schedule playdates and classes and even homeschool groups that they train their kids to only play with the kids they're scheduled to interact with. I think in the past, when parents didn't do all this scheduling stuff all the time, kids were just, I don't know, not expected to be best buds with other kids, but it seems that if they lived in the same town or neighborhood or something, they could at least say hi to one another. I mean, how else did whole groups of kids get to know each other, play neighborhood games, etc? It wasn't mommy making a playdate with the kids down the street. As for us, our family just doesn't DO mommy and me groups, scheduled classes, things like that. And we have moved so often and to new areas that I personally have zero mommy friends right now, so clearly no other families to get together with. So... how are my kids supposed to meet other kids, again?? Why am I supposed to make friends for them when in generations past the kids were perfectly able to make friends for themselves, generally speaking? Maybe not at age 3, but at age 5, 6, 7? (Obviously this is more asking in theory than really asking that personally, but you know what I mean.)

I have actually posted on here a few years ago when I had a mom say to me at a neighborhood playground (the week we moved into a new neighborhood) that they don't go to playgrounds to make friends, they go to play with friends they already have. I didn't even get why she would say that. I didn't get up all in her business and ask her to be my bff, I made one small-talk type comment about her daughter who looked about the same age as mine. I guess she got offended I said anything to her at all? Well, fine. Don't be friendly, then. Even the ladies at LLL meeting I went to specifically to meet other moms already went with their mom friends and weren't looking for new ones. I'm just as confused as my daughter is by the unfriendliness of some people. I am an introvert too, believe it or not, and I certainly don't go pushing myself on people, but there are times when even just saying a pleasantry seems to offend others. (As reinforced by some of the responses on this thread...) It is cultural, and I'm a little confused by why culture is heading down this road. But oh well.

I think it's a parents' job to teach social skills. For parents of kids who are too friendly, that means teaching how to respect social cues, not be pushy, etc. And, for parents of intense/busy/whatever kids, that means teaching them how to be polite and say hi back to other kids. It's a learning process. Adults shouldn't consider other kids rude. If anyone was rude, perhaps it's the parents, if they don't say something to teach the kids. Yes, there are times when my kids are "rude", but I try to make being in public a learning experience. How we deal with others. Not being pushy, not being unfriendly to the point of impoliteness.

I am really surprised that if someone came up to someone in a farmer's market and said hello to you, they would consider it OK to not say anything back. I understand not getting into a full on conversation. But if someone's going to make the reach to say hello to someone, I can't imagine just staring at them and walking away. I also admit that I don't fully get the whole "are you sharing an experience isntead of sharing the same space" if you're on the playground or something. Yeah, you're sharing the experience of playing in a public playground. I wouldn't walk into someone's yard and join in on their pool party no matter how much fun it looked like. But if my kids are playing at the local park, and they want to interact with the other kids there, why do some parents think that it's somehow intrusive to their kids if mine say hello? It's another thing entirely if your kid made clear that they want to be left alone to build their sand castle, and mine were to follow them around and pester them. (They wouldn't, btw.) But just saying hello? That's bothersome?

If your kid has special needs, that's DIFFERENT, and I GET THAT. (My own son has SN. And he doesn't always "look" like he does, so I always keep an open mind about any other family and don't judge, because you don't know what's going on. Even if there isn't a SN, the kid might be tired or sick or grieving or whatever!) But if your kid is just the type of person to be busy in what they're doing, then please teach them at least what another pp said - to say "hi, I'm busy right now, nice to meet you but I'd rather be left alone." Props to that. But to condone them ignoring other kids is rude, imo. Are they always going to act perfect? Heck no. But it's a parent's job to at least TRY to get them to understand that ignoring others isn't kind.

Before you come at me that I couldn't possibly understand the sensitive child - I *was* that sensitive child. This post is coming from a person who was PAINFULLY shy as a child. I was constantly "embarrassing" my own mother because for the longest time, I wouldn't say hi to anyone, even her friends. So I get it. But she kept at it because she viewed it as her job to teach me how to at least be polite. And eventually it sunk in.


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollase*
> 
> Same thing happens to my little guy - it never fails to break my heart. I will often say, out loud, that the other child may be feeling shy and if he (my son) wants to talk, I would be happy to talk to him. I like to explain the situation so its less awkward for the child who isn't responding and less of a negative experience for my son. If he inquires as to why they didn't respond, I tell him the truth - that not all children are comfortable with saying hello to people they don't know, that some children feel shy sometimes, that some children can't think of the right words to say. I use it as an opportunity for him to understand others better...but, like I mentioned before - it never fails to break my heart.


Everything she said.


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ladytigerfairy*
> 
> I also just read thatvuour daughter is home during the week all day with your parents.. that means she's not getting any peer interaction and is seeking out a lot at the playground especialy if its one of her only opportunities to be social! My son would be going crazy if he were with my parents all week! Have your parents drop her off twice a week to some sort of half day preschool.. you will notice a huge difference!!! Best of luck.. sure it will work out!


It's responses like this that get me so confused.

It's a playground, a public space.

Why shouldn't children interact with one another in a public space? Why shouldn't it be a great place to "seek" social interaction? I'm so confused. Please explain this to me.

Maybe it's different in different areas, but here about 3/4 of parents have play structures in their backyards. And there are private play groups as well. It seems logical to me that a public playground would be the space where children go to gather. That's what we did when I was young. You're a kid? Go to the neighborhood park. Make some friends. Have fun. Be back by dark. And I'm not even that old. Now it seems like the majority of kids expect a private play experience at even public playgrounds. What gives?


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

Ds has always been very friendly - one of his first words was "hi" and he would sit in the grocery cart as a baby and say "hi" to anyone near by. He is almost 5 (on friday!) and is still the same way. He goes up to kids and adults and asks them their name, how old they are, etc. that some kids are not talkers (maybe they are shy, busy, distracted,don't know how to talk yet, etc). He will often go as the kids parent for info if the kid doesn't respond ("whats your kid's name? How old is he? would he like to share my ball with me and play catch?") Or he will go talk to someone else if someone is around that will respond.

He doesn't seem too bothered when people don't respond, and if he does, I will just remind him that not everyone wants to talk, go find someone else to interigate!

I also give him lots of oppertunity to talk to people in settings where I know they will respond - for example, from the time he started talking I'd have him order his own food in restuarants, he calls grandma a few times a week to tell her whatever he wants, he talks to family and friends all the time, asks for books on whatever subject from the library etc. Just in general he has always had lots of chances to speak - I have him ask people what time it is, or where something is, or verbalize compliments (instead of whispering to me that someone has a cute baby, I encourage him to go say so himself!)

I do think its weird that MOST kids his age (4-6yrs) still won't even say hi to him. I've had him talk to people from the time he could talk, and its never been an issue for is.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

I'll also say that planned playdates or classes doesn't = any differences in responses from other kids. weather its at the playground, or in a class, some kids respond to "hi's" and some don't. Ds has friends that he will have a playdate with and they never speak a word in 3 hours of playing. He has other friends that talk (almost) as much as he does. He's found the same on the playground and with neighborhood kids, weather its kids he sees every single day or once a week or less. Doesn't matter.

He is also a homeschooler, with adults a LOT of the time, but also with kids of all ages plenty too, he is social with all ages.


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## Asiago (Jul 1, 2009)

"Some children just lack social skills", that was my ped's reply regarding the same subject (lack of greeting response). After the stranger anxiety phase my son made quite a change and began to greet every child and adult, I was baffled by the lack of response by children and inquired with the ped (a developmental specialist). From my reading it seems that most children are capable of responding, I suppose whether a wave or a simple 'hi', between the ages of 36 months and 42 months to most greetings. Oddly enough though, most children do not return the greeting in passing.

Clearly some have legitimate reasons, such as stranger anxiety, and of course we cannot expect a response from every encounter, but it does seem so odd that so few children respond.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

The suggestions for playschool/preschool are made because the child seems worried or saddened by the lack of response. Preschool will help because then the child will have more experience with the same group of children with a variety of responses (positive and negative) but will learn that just because someone doesn't respond right away/is slow to warm up it doesn't mean that they mean to cause harm and she will learn to roll with it.

Secondly her desire to build friendships will be met. And the OP already responded that her DD will start a Montessori preschool in the fall, which is awesome since Montessori focuses on grace and courtesy.

Sure it may not change the other kids on the playground, but she will probably not be upset by the lack of response.

I know some children do fine seeing friends occasionally, or on the playground. But my children really benefit from seeing the same kids every day to really build relationships and practice their skills.


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## LilyKay (Jun 28, 2011)

I do not believe that not being responded to will stiffle her social development in anyway, especially if she has good social relationships with other kids. The only thing it does is fine tune her social skills and develop them further.

I know it is hard to watch but whenever I see my daughter struggle, I keep reminding myself that "no challenges and difficulties, no learning." She has to fall, to make mistakes, and to mess up to learn. There is no other way to get through life.

I am suddenly reminded of a couple of male-friends, who are quite charming and smooth in chatting up women. They both told me it took a lot of getting rejected and ignored to get there...


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I'm in the UK so bear it in mind (might be a different cultural setting i guess).

My DDs are 6 and 2. My 6yo is and has mostly been very chatty, my 2yo so far is by comparison rather shy. I think kids don't read social cues well, and i think they KNOW they don't. Which is why some kids will chat to anyone without any apparent boundaries/filters (my eldest frequently started conversations with the addicts and prostitutes working near our home when i was a single parent, and it wasn't always wise of her or easy for me to extricate us!), and some won't chat to ANYONE, even people they've actually met and talked to before.

I cannot think of anywhere that adults would model what is been described as the normal or desirable behaviour between kids in playgrounds on this thread. There is nowhere where it is appropriate to walk up to a stranger who is not part of a group you might be with and say "Hi, my name is such-and-such, what's yours?", and nowhere where you would expect to get a positive (or even neutral) response 100% of the time if you did. Not the cinema, the bowling, the gym, the bus, nowhere i can think of. People DO greet and talk to one another, but usually to comment on something that is happening (you might say "wow, this bus has been stopped ages, do you think it's broken down?" but you wouldn't say "hi, we're on the bus with you today") or because you're somewhere with a shared interest (you might say "Hey, i'm Bec, i'm knitting a cardigan for my LO, due in January" at the stitch n bitch, you wouldn't say it to the lady behind you in the bank queue (unless she for some reason was ALSO knitting in the bank queue). Even when adults WANT to meet strangers they most often attend groups, classes or go to a singles night or speed dating even to do so (depending on what sort of thing they're looking for). Adults also often use alcohol as a social lubrication in situations where it is deemed appropriate to meet and greet total strangers to spend frivolous social time with.

So back to the kids. My 6yo just did her first year at school, she's really sociable and polite (and has been given 2 in-front-of-school callouts at assembly to be given "...is a good friend and has lovely manners" awards) BUT she has had MAJOR issues with another girl who just doesn't take no for an answer. This girl really likes DD, but she has no interest in whether DD feels like playing on a given day or not. She MUST play, because the other girl wants her to. The other girl is devastated when DD wants to play with one of her other friends (and we have a list of 9 "best" friends DD did this year spontaneously to show off her hand writing) and feels totally hurt and rejected and will scream "you're not my friend anymore" or "i'm so angry, you can't come to my birthday party" (they are 5 and 6 please bear in mind), something which kills DD, who might just have happened to want to play Tigers instead of Princesses that morning. She has spent many a night crying at how painful it is that this girl controls what she does and cries whenever DD tries to do what she wants to do, and we have been in and out of school talking to the head mistress and teachers to try to help them work it out (DD is not the only girl to have had these issues). She, my sociable 6yo, has even begun to ignore this girl at times, because once she says "hi" in the morning, literally immediately the other girl will take her hand and that is it for the day, if DD dares to speak to or play with anyone else there are fireworks.

This interaction has made my DD much more wary of talking to keen-seeming strangers, which is a shame on the one hand, i agree, but i also think it's something she needs to figure out. Sometimes it IS a bad idea to engage with every person who just comes wandering up to say Hi, and sometimes it isn't. I'm pretty sure it was only through a childhood of being ignored, pestered and making good friends that i figured that one out. When people are antisocial with my DD's i say "well maybe they just don't feel like talking today" "they're in a quiet mood", "maybe they're tired" "i don't know why they don't want to talk, they just don't feel like it"... I just make sure she knows it's not a rejection of HER but of social interaction with someone they don't know at all, it's nothing to do with her as a person. This perspective, for our family, is the healthiest.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> I cannot think of anywhere that adults would model what is been described as the normal or desirable behaviour between kids in playgrounds on this thread. There is nowhere where it is appropriate to walk up to a stranger who is not part of a group you might be with and say "Hi, my name is such-and-such, what's yours?", and nowhere where you would expect to get a positive (or even neutral) response 100% of the time if you did.


sorry you can't *but I can-* it is common practice (curtsey) to introduce yourself to perfect strangers at MANY adult events: church/synagogues, social functions, civic club meeting, town councils (halls)- some adults even wear name badges. I have been to numerous business functions were it is required to do so, business chapter (chamber) meetings (local economic business groups, historical societies. etc),it is also very common at museums, sporting meets- most of the time you do not know these people- that is how you get to know them. Many function (at least here in the US where I live) you interact with people you don't know all the time. I have been to many events where even if a group is hosting it, you know no one there from previous group events. I am introduced in so many day to day setting with strangers, the guy who works on my car at the dealership introduces himself, the clerk at many stores do the same,banks, we were approached by the people sitting next to us at a cafe, the people that put their blanket next to us at the beach, it happens all the time-perfect strangers and the do ask your name! I am asked my name almost 100% of the time when I talk to strangers over the phone.

We attended two local events this weekend (in no way a "group" things at all) and adults did introduce themselves to other adults. Strangers to strangers!

It is actively encouraged for children from a small age to greet others and state your name and ask when you introduce - (Daisy Girl Scouts start at the K level-scout groups interact with others the don't know all the time-even with adults)- to think it is some how this rare thing and that children do not see it happening with adults and magically at say 5 they are requested to do so is just unbelievable.

Quote:


> Sure it may not change the other kids on the playground, but she will probably *not be upset by the lack of response.*


to some this just adds more confusion (I know it does for mine)

ETA- you can hardly go out to eat without knowing your servers name and they always seem to ask my DS his name-the cashier at the local grocery stores does, it goes on and on, so adults ask his name so he thinks this is normal!


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> sorry you can't *but I can-* it is common practice (curtsey) to introduce yourself to perfect strangers at MANY adult events: church/synagogues, social functions, civic club meeting, town councils (halls)- some adults even wear name badges. I have been to numerous business functions were it is required to do so, business chapter (chamber) meetings (local economic business groups, historical societies. etc),it is also very common at museums, sporting meets- most of the time you do not know these people- that is how you get to know them. Many function (at least here in the US where I live) you interact with people you don't know all the time. I have been to many events where even if a group is hosting it, you know no one there from previous group events. I am introduced in so many day to day setting with strangers, the guy who works on my car at the dealership introduces himself, the clerk at many stores do the same,banks, we were approached by the people sitting next to us at a cafe, the people that put their blanket next to us at the beach, it happens all the time-perfect strangers and the do ask your name! I am asked my name almost 100% of the time when I talk to strangers over the phone.
> 
> ...


All of these examples are where adults enter into these situations where they know and expect to interact and are part of a group (business functions, etc.). If you enter a store, ask someone to fix your car, etc. As an adult you get to choose to do these things. Do you get up from your table at a restaurant and go over to another table and say, "Hi my name is Sally, what is your name?" That would be very strange. Your probably usually only speak to people in your group, or the server, etc.

Daisy scouts, etc. these are all groups where children have either agreed to participate... this is different then making all children part of a group simply because they are playing at the same public playground. Many people go to public parks to enjoy the park and be alone. Just because they don't want to play with another child, etc. doesn't make them rude.

If an adult is jogging in a public park and you ran after them asking them their name and other questions, that might be a bit odd as well.

I think children at the farmer's market, etc. even at the park--this is a slightly different situation. And again, children are not simply little adults... some children may learn to pick up on social cues rather quickly, and other children may take more overt instruction. But to assume that parents aren't teaching their children to do this because the child doesn't respond as one would expect is silly assumption.

Children aren't mini adults and their understanding of social groups and whether they are consenting to participate in them differ from adults. Manners are a learned behavior .


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Do you get up from your table at a restaurant and go over to another table and say, "Hi my name is Sally, what is your name?" That would be very strange. Your probably usually only speak to people in your group, or the server, etc.


glad you are on a different coast you really would not like our area- communal dining is not rare- even happens in parks around here and YES people do talk to those strangers around them, happens at open spaces all over my city

by all means never pay to visit the Plain and Fancy restaurant or Brimfield Antique Fare, many place in NYC (up state too I can think of two places we often visit and all sit a one big table) and Philly, *most diners* this does happen OFTEN as well- it is not odd to go and talk to someone outside of your group/table or server-talking to stranger and you do get asked your name- in fact at some places *you* would be odd if you didn't talk to others-I consider these place public space-open to the public-same as a park - like in you go to to a public space that is communal and others are around and interaction is extremely common

Quote:


> Why shouldn't children interact with one another in a public space? Why shouldn't it be a great place to "seek" social interaction? I'm so confused. Please explain this to me.


my thoughts exactly - public playground open to all is a bit different (at least to me) vs taking a walk in the woods, yet when you see others you often say "hi" as you pass- happens on streets here too!

I just have a very different view of public spaces and communal interaction- I do see I am not alone in feeling this is rude-I do see older (over 42 months clearly!) where this is now the norm for children

AND I do make sure my child does not trip joggers to talk to them


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

In adult land (not talking about kids here): Even as an extremely outgoing person who will chat up anyone I can when I'm out and about, I don't find people who won't *rude* - they're just different than me. Whether someone responds to something I say or not is not a reflection on me, nor even a reflection on their upbringing or manners. It's just their comfort level with talking with people they don't know, their fondness of small talk, whether they're having a really crappy hour/day/week/month/life, or any number of other things that could make them not feel like talking. Despite my desire and enjoyment in connecting with people even on small levels, I do not feel they are under ANY obligation to interact with me at all - that's pretty...I dunno, presumptuous about other people having the same personality/desire for connection/skill set as you? It might make me a little sad and hope that the person is OK, because I normally get at least a small smile or a head nod or even just eye contact when I greet or talk to someone...but if I don't get that, I don't think they're rude.

I just don't like the direction this is going labelling people who aren't into public chitchat as rude.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I guess there is an "assumption" that when you go to a public place people interact- I can not expect to do laps in my public pool when the facility is not set up for it- it's an open space and everyone is there to interact-not have a solo spot- at the kiddy pool- it's just for kiddies and you are expected to interact with others- like at a public playground-it is not just for one person, so I don't find it odd to expect other to be there and when people are around talking does happen


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> glad you are on a different coast you really would not like our area- communal dining is not rare- even happens in parks around here and YES people do talk to those strangers around them, happens at open spaces all over my city
> 
> ...


Again those are specific kinds of situations where you choose to participate and the context would be completely different. When we go to an open table dinner or food carts where you share a table that is a very different social situation then say a restaurant where a couple is having a quiet romantic dinner. Of course we do not assume that we won't interact with others at a farm to table event, etc.

Two different things, where an adult would know the difference between the two and there is room for both. Just because I like to have a quiet, private dinner with my husband on occasion or a close friend doesn't mean that I do not also like a large communal dinner at other times. But I don't have to always do one or the other.

And I find this interesting that as someone holding the banner for manners you make a rather rude and personal comment and assumption about my like/dislike of communal dining.

Sometimes communal interaction can allow for more introspection-- like when groups of people do yoga or qigong in the park together. They are not chattering away... And I can accept and allow that sometimes what is happening in the interior space of a child may be more interesting them someone else's need for small talk, whether they are in a public space or not. Again, they aren't small adults but very different.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
> 
> In adult land (not talking about kids here): Even as an extremely outgoing person who will chat up anyone I can when I'm out and about, I don't find people who won't *rude* - they're just different than me. Whether someone responds to something I say or not is not a reflection on me, nor even a reflection on their upbringing or manners. It's just their comfort level with talking with people they don't know, their fondness of small talk, whether they're having a really crappy hour/day/week/month/life, or any number of other things that could make them not feel like talking. Despite my desire and enjoyment in connecting with people even on small levels, I do not feel they are under ANY obligation to interact with me at all - that's pretty...I dunno, presumptuous about other people having the same personality/desire for connection/skill set as you? It might make me a little sad and hope that the person is OK, because I normally get at least a small smile or a head nod or even just eye contact when I greet or talk to someone...but if I don't get that, I don't think they're rude.
> 
> I just don't like the direction this is going labelling people who aren't into public chitchat as rude.


I agree with this... I think it could be turned around and framed as interrupting being rude. There is a different between a quick "Hi" in passing and having to play with another child, or having to answer questions about your name, etc...

Again, I think it is different for a child who is not being presumptuous by saying hello, etc. But this has gotten waaay off the topic. The OP even stated she regretted using the word "rude."


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tiqa*
> 
> It's responses like this that get me so confused.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you here... but the expectation that every child respond in an adult approved manner is just too high. My kids are at times weird. I mean, when was the last time you wore an elephant costume to the grocery store?

So yes, playgrounds and public spaces are for new experiences. And it is for social experiences as well... but some children fulfill this by observing other children or performing for other children. Kids interact in radically different ways often then adults. And that is okay and should be allowed.

I had a friend in school who would approach me every morning with his jacket pulled over his head and never spoke to me for months (when I was in Kindergarten ) ... is this social? totally. Did I understand it? at the time, yes.

Was this rude? to an adult, probably. but at the time, it wasn't rude to me...


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## KellyandBean (Nov 2, 2009)

My 2.5 year old already has inherited my social anxiety and would just stare blankly in shock if another child said hi or worse run to hide in my skirt. She isn't rude she is just a sweet shy little girl. Your girl is extroverted and that is wonderful but not all kids are like that. I would just explain that sometimes kids are shy and then other kid just might not feel like talking right now.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

I read this today and instantly thought of this thread!

http://parentingfromscratch.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/things-to-know-about-introverted-children/

*2. Introverted kids don't like small talk (especially with strangers).* This does not mean they're shy. It means: 1) they like to skip meaningless chit chat and just stick to the important stuff, and 2) they like to develop a relationship with someone before they talk about important things. Introverts need to develop a connection with someone before they'll talk comfortably. There must be a trust that that person will listen, a trust that she'll understand, a trust that the child will be taken seriously. This leads to being cautious in getting to know new people which looks like "shyness."

DO: If you're introducing your introverted child to a person with whom a relationship is important to develop, aim for creating a connection first. Be the bridge between the friend and the child; when he feels safe, he will come over.

*DON'T: Announce introverted children as shy, and don't make them "perform" small talk. It really does feel like a performance and create stress.*

So all the advocates for making children "be polite" are really missing the point. It isn't about manners, but respecting introversion and especially introverted children....


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## LitMom (Mar 6, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *serenbat*
> 
> glad you are on a different coast you really would not like our area- communal dining is not rare- even happens in parks around here and YES people do talk to those strangers around them, happens at open spaces all over my city
> 
> by all means never pay to visit the Plain and Fancy restaurant or Brimfield Antique Fare, many place in NYC (up state too I can think of two places we often visit and all sit a one big table) and Philly, *most diners* this does happen OFTEN as well- it is not odd to go and talk to someone outside of your group/table or server-talking to stranger and you do get asked your name- in fact at some places *you* would be odd if you didn't talk to others-I consider these place public space-open to the public-same as a park - like in you go to to a public space that is communal and others are around and interaction is extremely common


Now, I encourage my "shy" child to say hello to people and I answer for my kids if another kid is talking to them and they're feeling shy and hiding behind me or not answering. And I'm not saying it would be bad if this were the norm, but I can't figure out where you're going in NYC that you think it *is* the norm... because in my three decades here.... it's not. I can only think of one communal table type restaurant I've ever seen, and people *don't* talk to others outside their group even at that restaurant. I've never had anyone other than homeless-mentally-unstable strangers just walk up to my table and start talking to me in a restaurant anywhere in the Northeast. It is odd behavior. Nor has anyone at any museum just started talking to me or asked me my name unless it was a class or event at the museum.


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## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

I grew up in the greater NYC metropolitan area, and as an adult have lived in urban Northern New Jersey, the urban mid-Atlantic and urban central Texas.

I like to talk to people. As a child I would only speak to adults I knew or strangers that were already conversing with the adults in my group. I was well-educated regarding "stranger danger"; I knew which strangers I could speak with, and which strangers I should give wide berth to. There were a few missteps; on a road trip in the middle of Heartland, USA, a woman said "Hello." to me at a rest stop. I told her to back off. I hadn't learned that rest stops in Heartland, USA are one of those places where speaking to strangers might be OK, as long as your parents can see you. All in all, though, once they were done laughing I think my family was glad I erred on the side of "back off" rather than possibly investigating any candy she had in her van. (I kid. I don't think she had candy or a van, but you see my point.)

Anyway, as an adult, I like to talk. In NJ, I'd turn around and strike up conversation with the folks behind me in line at the Pathmark. In Virginia I'd try to turn around and strike up conversation with the folks behind me in line at the Kroger, and usually get shut down, I'm assuming due to my thick Yankee accent. In Texas it takes me 2 hours to get vegetables because Little Miss and I stop every few feet to meet a new friend. I like to talk, and when I'm out among people, no matter where I am in the USA, I'm looking for other people that like to talk. I'm looking for signals, a show of interest, a friendly face. If you don't like to talk, I can tell. I might chat you up anyway, because I admit it, I am a real dick like that some days. But usually, if you're giving me the "Please don't even look at me." vibe, chances are I'll smile and just move on. No harm, no foul.

Is it not a possibility that the OP's child is learning the same conversation seeking skills that I possess? Might she not be coming to understand that some people think it's perfectly normal to plop down on a park bench with a bag of Skittles and just start yammering, and some people think this is nearly as bad as walking into another person's home and using their toilet without permission or reason?

I will say, in my experience, in the East we don't "Ma'am" and "Sir" everyone we make eye contact with because frankly, we're not making eye contact. Heh.

Unless we want to talk.


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## Carlin (Oct 14, 2006)

tsrlk, I don't think a personal attack is called for, especially as you obviously failed to read much past the first post, on a thread that is many weeks old. It is perfectly fine to address the topic at hand and obviously disagreements are inevitable in a diverse community, but it's an entirely different matter to call someone you've never met rude, and insult their parenting. I'm sure you have a lot to offer this community, but it may be a good idea to go back and read Motherings forum guidelines as to what is acceptable here.


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## tiqa (Feb 8, 2012)

Incidentally, that was their first post on Mothering. Hmm.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Yeah, I reported the post because it's obviously either 1) not legit, or 2) someone who isn't keen on being mature/civil.


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## dejagerw (Jan 5, 2010)

I was actually more surprised that someone thumbed up the post.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Hi OP: forgive me, I skimmed really quickly through the responses and hope I'm not repeating anything.

I have an extremely personable and extroverted DD, and I've seen similar reactions from other kids (kid won't acknowledge her; kid moves away from her; kid looks scared). DD is almost six and she's been rather forward with people for as long as I can remember. In a way, it drives me nuts, because I realize that I may have failed in some respect to teach her boundaries. DH and I are talkers, and except in limited situations, we normally chat away. The difference for us, though, is we know when to stop and we have probably developed detectors which allow us to understand when to withdraw or when communication is unwanted.

I'm not a child psychologist or any kind of expert on growth, but I think that a lot of kids in the 3 - 7 year-old range are still learning communication skills and what is appropriate when and where. Then there are just kids who are introverted or disinterested. I run into adults like that every day but I've learned not to take it personally. But, I think it's hard to get to the point where you don't take things personally. It took me many years.

One thing that has worked for me is when I see that a child is not going to be responsive, I engage in some sort of distraction to divert DD's attention from the other child. I also have to talk to her a lot about boundaries. She is beginning to grasp that personal space is important to others. It's been a hard thing to do because she just automatically assumes that everyone is all peace and love and rainbows and laughter. Recently, one kid at her summer camp called her "annoying." Put in his shoes, I can't say that I totally disagree with that assessment. I know that sounds harsh but at some point one has to understand how others feel and perhaps modify one's behavior accordingly. The "annoying" situation actually gave me a good in-road in discussing the issue with DD. She's at a point now where we can have these kinds of conversations and it is actually sinking in.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Thank you, Carlin. It could not be said better.









tsrlk, we require members to post with respect. Attacking and adversarial tone in posting is not permitted. You'll find our Rules under the Articles section in the navbar above. Please feel free to post to the Pleased to Meet You forum and tell us a bit about yourself so we can get to know you better.


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