# Mama in desperate need of advice. Don't want to be a mom anymore.-UPDATE page 5



## guestmama-001 (Nov 20, 2006)

I am posting under a new username but I am a long time member here. This is so hard to post but I need some serious help mamas. Or at least someone to say they understand. I don't even know where to start.

I have two sons, 4 and 1. I feel like I have been emotionally unstable for most of my adult life. Lately I have feel like I have almost gone off the deep end. Most of the time I really don't feel how I can go on. I'm mean to my kids, I've smacked my older son lots of times (which doesn't work). I yell, ALOT. How does one be a parent and not yell?? I do not get hardly ANY joy out of parenting and sometimes I wish I had never had kids. My relationship with my partner is kind of in the toilet. I have no motivation to do anything.

My older son I feel has some serious issues or maybe they just seem serious to me. He jumps around on the furniture all day long (after preschool in the am). He doesn't listen pretty much AT ALL. He could be looking right at you and you say something and you say, "what did I say?" and he says "I don't know". Or you try to tell him, hey you just <jumped on me>, <knocked over your brother>, <spilled something> and he'll be like "but I...<insert some kind of excuse>" At preschool and home he is very rigid and wants things to be just so. He's always yelling, "don't talk to me!" "dont' look at me" and gets crying mad when it's time to clean up. He's been going to preschool for TWO years! I just don't know what to do with him. I feel I let him play too much Wii or watch too many movies but I don't know what else to do because I am so lost I can't even function. Sick of incessant questions, why, why, why???? Sick of him running around the house yelling the same thing over and over. Sick of I want, I want, I want. I'm very sensitive to noise. Younger one is ok, but gets into everything and I just don't have the energy for him. All I want to do all day is surf the internet. Dinner usually gets made but generally not much cleaning gets done.

I started taking an antidepressant about 2-3 weeks ago and that hasn't helped at all. I've tried supplementation, but I can't stick with it. I've been seeing a counselor for a few months, isn't really helping. I get out and get "me" time, doesn't seem to matter, I'm still really irritated when I get home.

Mostly, my kids just irritate the crap out of me. Everything does really. I'm just not happy and I don't know how to be.

I know everyone says, this will pass, they will only be little once, blah, blah, blah, but how do I SURVIVE till then? Every night when I go to sleep I think tomorrow will be the day when I have it all together and want to play with my kids and be ms. happy homemaker, but it never happens. And I do try and get out of the house and do stuff, but sometimes it is almost too stressful to do that. I just DON't want to be a mom anymore!! I'm so tired of being needed. And I suppose it doesn't help being online and reading everyone else's life story about how they crafted this and gentle disciplined that all the while cooking wonderfully healthy meals that their kid ate and spotlessly cleaning their house without tv or video games. How the F*^&*^ do people do that???

I thought I wanted to homeschool and it seems like it is the best way to go, but I just don't think I can do it without going over the edge. I feel like I can't focus on more than one thing at a time. Either healthy eating (DS1 has been tested for food sensitivites and just about EVERYTHING is on the list) OR my relationship (I have NO libido), OR parenting OR cleaning the house but I CANNOT do it all at the same time. I suppose I could half-ass them all, but then everything is suffering.

How do I get through this? How do I forgive myself for being an awful mother? I know all the usual things people will say, don't be so hard on yourself, read this book, etc. But how do I actually DO it? I am a perfectionist and I just don't know how to get over it. I try to tell myself it doesn't matter, all that matters is I love my kids, but I still have huge nagging guilt in the back of my mind every day.

Sorry for the long rambly post but I just needed to get this out there and hopefully someone can make it better.


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

I am sorry that you are paralyzed from moving forward. I won't presume to give you any advice because I think you are doing what you need to do by going for counselling.

Your labelling yourself as a perfectionist speaks volumes.

For me I learned that I needed to be "good enough", not perfect and that provided a lot of freedom.

There is not one person in MDC or irl that have it all together. None, not one.
Perhaps what you are hearing in people's posts who seem to have it all, is that they have found contentment with the way they are doing things.

-Melanie


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I am right there, too. I'm not impressed with my mothering lately, but maybe it's because i'm finally getting better at cleaning! *sigh* I'm also a perfectionist, so I can totally understand that all-or-nothing feeling.

Honestly, I think it's just about half-assing it. It really is. In my experience, life is about lowering standards and making do. It's not fun (especially for those of us who would rather give up than do it "wrong"), but it is what it is. I guess I feel like once I let go a bit and tried to give myself permission to half-ass things, I did that for a while, but now I'm getting better at keeping myself together. Maybe it just took practice but I needed to give myself that permission to be doing it "wrong" before I could get to a place where I could practice properly?

It's a process... you know the saying, "life's a journey and not a destination"? I have a really hard time living by that, but I am realizing that it really is true.

Not sure that's really helpful, but there it is. I'll be looking forward to other people's practical responses!


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guestmama-001* 
And I suppose it doesn't help being online and reading everyone else's life story about how they crafted this and gentle disciplined that all the while cooking wonderfully healthy meals that their kid ate and spotlessly cleaning their house without tv or video games. How the F*^&*^ do people do that???(

For what it's worth, I strongly suspect that many of those posts you're talking about are more in the realms of fantasy than in reality. Anyone can be perfect online.

If I were in your position, I would get a job. It sounds like you really need a break from your situation.


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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Sent you a pm..


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## RebeccaWo (Apr 1, 2008)

I'm so sorry you're going through so much. I just wanted to mention that it can take 6-8 weeks for antidepressants to 'kick in'. If you feel like it really isn't working, talk to your psychiatrist and ask to be switched to a different antidepressant. You owe it to yourself to find something that works for you!

Also, have you talked to your doctor about any of this? There could be something else going on (thyroid issue, fatigue, etc.) that could be easily remedied and help you out enormously.

You aren't an awful mother at all. You're doing the absolute best things that you can do, which are realizing there's a problem and going to see a psychiatrist and counsellor. Do you have a strong support system? I really, really hope you find a counsellor and antidepressant that work for you!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't know anything about four-year-olds yet (I'm burying my head in the sand for a year until I have one), so I can't suggest anything from that perspective. But is it possible that you would be better-suited to working outside the home and using a nanny or daycare? Your post reads like _The Feminine Mystique_, and yes, that's a little retro, but it was written for a reason. Those of us who WOH or go to school full-time are awesome moms too







, and not everyone is suited to SAH and/ or homeschool.

I'm not saying you HAVE to get a job. Obviously if the idea of WOH sounds even worse to you than what you are currently doing, and you have the option, don't WOH! But if the idea fills you with relief, that absolutely does NOT make you any less of a mother. Working and having your children in a good solid care situation is a NORMAL thing that is actually more common than not. It's easy at MDC to get the idea that "everyone but me is able to SAH happily" but that isn't actually the way it is-- most mothers WOH whether by necessity or by choice, these days. Even if you're in Canada with a big huge maternity leave, one year is a normal time to go back to work IF it's what you want to do.

As for the antidepressant, most of those should start working after a couple of weeks. If yours doesn't start working soon, you may want to ask your doc about trying a different one.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

My gut reaction to all of this is "Where is your husband in all of this?" Are you a single mother? You said your relationship is in the toilet, but you never mentioned a husband, boyfriend, your kids father. ANY KIND OF SUPPORT SYSTEM. If there isn't anyone, and you are doing this all alone. WELL NO FREAKING WONDER your at your whits end. Who on earth, do you know, does it all on their own and is HAPPY? Ive never met anyone.

Now, if you HAVE a husband, who lives with you and is the father of your children, and your marriage is in trouble, I would have to assume your older son is reacting to the tension between you and your husband, and acting out as a result. And then you aren't getting the support you need to deal with that, and so the downward spiral continues.

How the heck do people do it? WITH LOTS OF HELP. Plain and simple. You sound tapped out emotionally, mama. I know what it feels like to feel like a horrible mother. I have already thought that about myself, and my kids are only 1.5 and 2.5. I yell more then I should. I hate it, but when you have asked the same thing for the 17th time, or answered the same question, or heard the name mommy for 45 mins straight, you start to see spots. Especially when your husband is either NOT home, or also in a mood.

For me, I have a hard time being the one that is leaned on ALL.THE.TIME. I want to be able to lean on someone else occasionally, rather then having to be the rock all the time. It helps me find that balance. Do I always get it? HELL to the NO. But atleast I know what I need to help keep me from wanting to jump off a bridge.

And FYI, Homeschooling is not for everyone. Would I like to try it? SURE. Do I think I could do it permenantly? Doubt it. But since I have to work, it doesn't really matter. I just wanted to let you know that you can do all the research in the world about why homeschooling is the best thing for your kids, that doesn't mean it is the best thing for YOU.

Big hugs mama. You aren't alone.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that you are putting unrealistic expectations on yourself. It is very hard to be happy being a parent when you expect more from yourself and your kids than is realistic. Have you thought about taking a parenting class? I am not trying to say that as a dig on you, sometimes being around other parents helps because you see that you aren't alone in your frustration. They also can have very good advice about getting your household running a little smoother which can really help when you are beyond frustrated with your family. Structure and boundaries are there for the whole family to feel happy, not just for the children. I think that if you are seriously depressed and hating having a family then you should make the changes that you need to make even if they don't fit what some of the posts seem to say on this website. This is a very hard thing to go through and I think it is great that you are recognizing that this isn't what you want and are taking steps to try to make things better. Time will help but it probably won't seem like that until you move through this.

I also want to say that I agree with lolar2 about the job or going to school. I started despising being a parent when my dd was almost two and getting out of the house and going to school full time was the best thing I ever did for both of us. My dd loved her daycare, they were supportive of both of us. Our relationship improved drastically and I have found that I am a better mom when I work or attend school than I am when I stay at home. I think staying at home is a wonderful thing if it is a good fit, but the feminist push against traditional mothering did happen for a reason.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

A good job and a great daycare may help a lot in your case. I'll get flamed for this but as we all know... working parents see their kids less during the kid's day. If you get home at 5:30 or 6 p.m. ... there's only a couple of hours of dinner, bath and bedtime rituals to deal with. Then, Saturday is shopping and clean the house day. Sunday is for great family outings.

I'm not saying forever. I'm saying that until you get a hold of yourself and your relationships with the other family members.. this could be a great stop-gap measure.

Good luck, mama.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm going to second the suggestion of daycare and working out of the home. Some people just aren't cut out to be a 24/7 caregiver and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am constantly confused by the mothers who feel like you do but then say they want to be a stay at home mother and homeschool? Why? Why do you think that it is a better option? Just think, you could get up in the morning, feed your kids some breakfast and get them ready and then take them to a wonderful daycare where they will have the attention the need and the playtime they need. You can go back to work and then at the end of the day you can pick them up and you will likely feel much more ready to deal with child-caring tasks. Only a few hours and then it's bedtime. I really do think this is the best solution from what you've said. I also want to add that homeschooling should be completely taken off the list. I used to homeschool and I felt overwhelmed by child care all the time. Finally I decided to try school for a year and it was such a wonderful decision! My youngest is starting kindergarten this year and I can't wait to have a break from all 3 kids! They are learning, they are thriving, and mommy gets a break. What could be better?


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## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

I agree with a pp in saying that maybe you want to look into getting a job? Even something part time. I know (for me at least) working helps, it's therapeutic and while I miss DD like crazy when i'm gone I feel like I'm a much better mother than when I'm there all day with her.

I also wanted to add... I was basically the kid in the situation you described. Both my parents at one point or another have gone through some pretty serious depression. It wasn't pretty but it was just for a limited period of time (once when I was about your son's age and another in HS). A lot of other stuff happened I won't go into here but I just wanted to say that it's the big picture that counts. Sure, I remember pretty clearly the bad times but there were a lot of good times that counteract that and that's really made me who I am today. There were enough good times so I could become happily married, get a good degree, have a functioning family etc. DH also had a far from perfect childhood and has turned out wonderfully.

Honestly, I know it's hard but it looks like you are really trying to do the right things here. You're looking for help, trying meds, etc. I wouldn't worry about damaging your kids, because kids DO jump back. Nobody is perfect and even moms that look perfect from the outside, well, they might have gone through A LOT of tough spots to get where they are today. It's really a learning experience and looking back there's a ton of things I would change but I see DD and I know she's loved despite my flaws, which is by far the most important thing.

Hang in there, continue to look for help. If that counselor isn't working try and find another. Seriously, I'd look into the job thing, though, too. It's OK not to be the perfect SAHM, I really feel that some of us aren't cut out for it.

ETA: Ok, I'm not sure your feelings on this but I'll just throw this out there too... have you ever read the Feminine Mystique?


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## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
A good job and a great daycare may help a lot in your case. I'll get flamed for this but as we all know... .

So true! Not everyone can home school! You should not feel bad about this!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

If jobs in your area are scarce and/ or really awful, you might also consider getting a part-time mother's helper or something like that, funds permitting.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

First of all Guestmama, let me apologize for my own posts here at MDC which I admit are sometimes on the bragging side. I try to avoid this but the puffery shows through sometimes, and I imagine that I'm not the only one who has these tendencies.







I tend to be very careful about how much time I spend here, because more often than not I leave MDC feeling a little overwhelmed by the the various mantras of "I do what's best" or the laundry lists of accomplishments. I do come to MDC for the simple fact that I don't have a lot of friends with children and my family is not near.

I am also a perfectionist but I have learned to pick and choose my battles. Simply because I don't homeschool or that I work doesn't make me loser. Rather, I focus on the positive aspects of how I parent and how well I balance my choices. You are grading yourself on parenting choices that others have deemed as "best" instead of making parenting choices that you know will work for you, your circumstances and personality, and then fine tuning those choices. I would step back and take a good hard look at how you are trying to define good mothering. Are you starting with a checklist of dos and don'ts (based on outside sources) or are you looking deep within yourself and identifying those things that make you miserable and happy and working from those points? The PPs are right, you are not alone.


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## mommyshoppinghabit (Aug 9, 2006)

And I'll throw in another







and a







for the last few pps. *We women were not meant to do this alone!*

Re. your 4 y.o's preschool, have you looking into putting him in a montessori program? There is almost no schedule there. He will not have to move on to another activity until he is good and ready and maybe there will be some older kids in his classroom that will be like an older sibling role model that he doesn't have. Also, besides academic endeavors, they learn to do domestic, everyday chores as if the classroom was their home, so maybe he will have more respect in the house. And they take kids young so your 1 y.o. might possibly be old enough to enter their school too (a lot start at 18 months). All that is conjecture, I just visited an incredible montessori school last week and wish I had started now-4-y.o. son there when he was 18 months.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Could it be that you have clinical depression? You really sound hopeless, which can be a sign. Take care of yourself.

Also, perfect families do not exist. Even those who claim that they are x, y, and z have days where those ideals flee from them.


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## guestmama-001 (Nov 20, 2006)

Thank you everyone. Really. Reading your posts has brought me to tears. I KNOW all of these things mentally, but I can't seem to get my heart to agree.

My dp was laid off about a month ago so he is around. Frankly he's been doing A LOT around here which has been nice. Which also makes me feel bad because he seems to do things so effortlessly and I wonder why I can't. He has put up with a lot from me. I mean, it must be really hard to live with someone like me. Now that he is home more, he is starting to read the books I have been wanting him to read about relationships and parenting. Now I am the one who needs them.

I do have a support system, my mom and sister and I are very close and I have a couple of friends. But I really hate complaining to all of them, they are almost all single mothers and I feel like I should have nothing to complain about. Plus my mom is one of those types that's just like, suck it up. My older ds can go stay at a grandma's or auntie's for a weekend and he likes to do that.

I have felt that since dp is laid off I could look into getting a job. But that would affect my healthcare, meaning I would get kicked off the state program and then he is looking for a job so he needs to go to interviews and be able to go to work. His earning potential is twice what mine is. When my older son was a baby I did go back to school and earned my bachelors. Then right after I graduated I got pg with #2 and that's what I've been doing since. I do feel like I miss having school to go to but it also makes me really sad thinking of shipping my baby off to a daycare. Plus I get really overwhelmed when thinking about looking for a job, interviewing, all that stuff. I think a job would be nice, but I am so petrified to start that process. Plus I have no experience in my field so whatever I would be able to do would be entry level.

I know that I am not cut out for homeschooling, but I can't wrap my head around it.

I just feel so overwhelmed with life and all the options out there. It seems so complicated, making any decision is like a huge challenge.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guestmama-001* 
Thank you everyone. Really. Reading your posts has brought me to tears. I KNOW all of these things mentally, but I can't seem to get my heart to agree.

My dp was laid off about a month ago so he is around. Frankly he's been doing A LOT around here which has been nice. Which also makes me feel bad because he seems to do things so effortlessly and I wonder why I can't. He has put up with a lot from me. I mean, it must be really hard to live with someone like me. Now that he is home more, he is starting to read the books I have been wanting him to read about relationships and parenting. Now I am the one who needs them.

I do have a support system, my mom and sister and I are very close and I have a couple of friends. But I really hate complaining to all of them, they are almost all single mothers and I feel like I should have nothing to complain about. Plus my mom is one of those types that's just like, suck it up. My older ds can go stay at a grandma's or auntie's for a weekend and he likes to do that.

I have felt that since dp is laid off I could look into getting a job. But that would affect my healthcare, meaning I would get kicked off the state program and then he is looking for a job so he needs to go to interviews and be able to go to work. His earning potential is twice what mine is. When my older son was a baby I did go back to school and earned my bachelors. Then right after I graduated I got pg with #2 and that's what I've been doing since. I do feel like I miss having school to go to but *it also makes me really sad thinking of shipping my baby off to a daycare*. Plus I get really overwhelmed when thinking about looking for a job, interviewing, all that stuff. I think a job would be nice, but I am so petrified to start that process. Plus I have no experience in my field so whatever I would be able to do would be entry level.

*I know that I am not cut out for homeschooling, but I can't wrap my head around it.*

I just feel so overwhelmed with life and all the options out there. It seems so complicated, making any decision is like a huge challenge.









You wouldn't be shipping your baby off. You would pick a daycare that you think is a good fit for your family so that you can focus on getting yourself to a good place. Babies do thrive in daycare. They do. It wouldn't mean you don't love your child. Ask any working mom on here if they love their child. Of course they do. But the situation you are in is not working for anyone so something needs to change.
In regards to the homeschooling, what can't you wrap your head around? School is not bad. It really isn't. I recommend stop reading on the homeschooling board at all. That's what I had to do when I was making my decision. When I decided to send my kids to school I felt like a horrible failure and was sure all sorts of terrible things would befall them. Boy, was I wrong! It has been a wonderful experience for them. They are happy, they are thriving, and they are getting so many life experiences that I would not be able to provide them. Your children will do just fine in school, and in daycare if you decide to go that route. And you will be less stressed, which will enable you to work on becoming the mom that you really want to be.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I can relate, truly.

If it's at all possible, this is the kind of situation where it's okay to demand help. Husband, friends, family... it's never nice to tell people stuff like this, but you might need to just say "I am at a crisis point and I need you to help me for the next month so I can get through this. When can you take the kids?"

If you can get the computer turned off during the day, that might make a huge difference. When I'm struggling I get really addicted to the computer, and it's a vicious cycle because the social aspect draws me in. I try to stay out of the house as much as possible, going to free mom drop ins and stuff.

You can't do it all. No one can. It will get better.

eta: sorry, I cross posted with you and didn't see your last post so some of this is redundant. I still want to give you







though


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## Mama2Kayla (Feb 12, 2005)

Dont' feel bad about the homeschool thing. You are not alone in those feelings. I had grand plans to homeschool my children too, but now the thought of having everyone home all day with me is enough to make me







. My dd is starting to K in the fall and I am very excited for it







.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guestmama-001* 
I graduated I got pg with #2 and that's what I've been doing since. I do feel like I miss having school to go to but it also *makes me really sad thinking of shipping my baby off to a daycare*.

You have to try to get past this line of thinking.

I do not feel like I just ship my kids off to daycare. Is that what you would think of me if I told you I worked full time and my kids went to daycare full time? Prolly not right? You would just consider me a hard working mama doing what I needed to do so that we were all happy and healthy and well provided for. RIght?

There is no shame in daycare. Why do you think it is such a boomin business?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guestmama-001* 
And I suppose it doesn't help being online and reading everyone else's life story about how they crafted this and gentle disciplined that all the while cooking wonderfully healthy meals that their kid ate and spotlessly cleaning their house without tv or video games. How the F*^&*^ do people do that???

I have this problem, too. I just want to point out that MDC seems like a monolith sometimes. But, the moms posting about their perfect housekeeping routine, and the moms posting about their all-from-scratch-all-organic cooking (the "make my own bread, pasta, dressings, jams, etc. etc. etc. level), and the moms posting about their flawless gentle discipline, and the moms posting about their awesome daily crafts, and the moms posting about their twice daily outings, and the moms posting about hours of activism/advocacy - they're not all the _same moms_.

I'm sure lots of MDC moms have it together better than I do. I've struggled with depression. I've crawled into a hole a lot (usually over my c-sections and/or Aaron). I procrastinate like crazy about a lot of things, especially housework. I'm not terribly patient. I cook from scratch, but not always. But, the thing is - even the moms who have it together _only have 24 hours in a day_. Even if I didn't spend as much time online as I do (and I'm getting better as the baby gets older - yay!), I'd still only have 24 hours a day. If I spend it on outings, I'm not here to cook and clean. If I spend it crafting with the kids, I'm making more messes. If I spend it cooking and cleaning, the kids are off doing...whatever.

And, mama - your youngest is only 1. A very wise MDC mama in our local tribe told me once that the first two years are about survival. MDC is loaded with idealists. That's not a bad thing - but we need to accept that sometime our vision of a perfect life (and we all have one) just isn't practical. Perfectionism is really bad for people. It's taken me a lot of years to accept that I really can't, and shouldn't, demand perfection from myself. I don't demand it from anyone else...








mama.


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

MAN OP, I feel just like you do, maybe not quite to the same degree. On a scale from 1 to 10, if you're a 9, then I'm a 7. I'm not quite to the point where I don't want to be a mom, but I am at the point where I feel like I am sucking at it and I need about a three week vacation from life. And while I agree with some of the suggestions about getting a job, I think it has to be something that you really want to do. Even though I feel just like you do, the thought of working out of the home brings me no sense of relief. I would hate being away from my kids all day--even though they make me crazy! It would just be one more thing for me to feel guilty about. I am that person who wants to be a SAHM, just isn't doing it well at the moment. And at least for me, the kids are not the problem, they are a symptom. They are the object of my stress because I am with them the most. BUT, my honest feeling is that if I can get the other parts of my life in order, then the kid part won't be so hard. Everything else in my life is draining me of the resources I need to be a good parent. I am also a perfectionist. I read once that there is something called the "frustrated perfectionist." Those are the people that are perfectionist at heart, but can't make it happen so they are a total train wreck! That's me. I'm really ready to try to get out of the funk, so I'll tell you what I'm going to try.....

One thing I am trying to do is organize my life. I am going to organize my life into categories like: Parenting, housekeeping, nutrition, marriage, spiritual life. Those are my main areas of interest. The things I would LOVE to perfect! I need to make a plan for each of those areas. I need to make baby steps in each area. Like housekeeping, I am going to try to really clean one room each day until I can get to the point of maintenance and then maybe I will revise the plan. For nutrition, I'm going to attempt meal planning dinners, simple recipes, but have a plan so that I know what i have to do. Parenting: Today I will try my best not to YELL at my kids. Just for today. I hope you get what I mean. Part of my perfectionism is crying out for some order, and ordering my thoughts seem like the first logical step.

Also, about surfing the web, I like that too. And part of the reason my kids make me so crazy is, first, when I'm on the computer, they are not getting any attention and they will do what they need to to get it. And that usually means, whine, act up, or fight. Also, when I'm on the computer, I get MORE frustrated with them, because they are taking something from ME by whining, etc. It's selfishness on my part. Don't bother ME while I'm looking at nothing on the computer. I would really like to impose a rule on myself that the computer is only for when they are asleep. I need boundaries on that or else I'm just self-indulging at their expense. I don't want my kids to remember me as the mom who wouldn't play with them because I was always on the computer.

Next, I just ran across a thread that has been ongoing for years on MDC. It's in the p.p. depression forum, but it's title is something like, "true natural remedy for ppd." If you can, read some of that. Some of those women have gotten serious relief using supplements, but you have to make it a priority. I would give ANYTHING to not feel like the apathetic, rage-filled, mother I am now. Taking some vitamins every day seems like a very simple thing I can do for the sake of my kids and my sanity.

And last, I have a 4yo too and your ds doesn't sound out of the ordinary for age 4. Yes, it is a very annoying age in many ways! I totally get it. I just want you to know that and nothing sounds like a huge issue to me. My ds went though a long phase of "don't talk to me and don't look at me!" I remember it clearly









BIG







to you mama. I am so right there with you.


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## Lit Chick (Aug 15, 2007)

I could be you - if I had not gotten help pre-mommyhood. I still have times when I feel like i'm DONE, but it's all minor and I know how to cope.

I was always unhappy and a terrible perfectionist. I beat myself up about _everything_. Right before I got married, I had some truly bad moments with DH (I would scream and throw things and say awful things - things that if he had said to me would have made me leave).

Anyway, one day I saw an infomercial for a self help program called "Attacking Anxiety and Depression" and after I watched the whole 30 min thing crying, I realized that those people felt the way I did. I got the program, followed it, and it changed my life, seriously.

The thing to remember with therapy is that there are different approaches. Find one that works. I saw a therapist once, and it made me worse - I basically just talked about everything that made me feel bad, which made me feel bad - and I never did anything but vent. The AA&D program worked really well with my personality, because it gave me specific tasks and ways to change my thought process and behavior. (Parts of the program hurt for sure - but I made progress from day 1). There was also a HUGE part about managing expectations - and it sounds like you do not know how to do that (I've been there!). You expect yourself to be a perfect SAHM, eat healthy, blah blah, and set youself up to fail. And you can learn not to do that.

Believe it or not, you can and will get better. PM me if you want more info about the AA&D program I used.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

My child is almost grown now, so, I didn't feel at all like this when she was little. But, I feel like it now. I just feel like I'm done parenting. But, then, I'm also done with everything else.

I can't even finish a book because I can't focus on it.

I can kinda understand how you feel.

I don't think homeschooling, or even being a stay at home mom is always the best thing. It's just not for everyone. Kids thrive and do wonderfully in daycare, and public schools. It's like saying You can't be a good mom if you send your kids to public school. If other kids are doing well, why wouldn't yours? My daughter went to good schools in a great neighborhood, and had an amazing school experience. I couldn't have ever come close to matching what she got in school. I am just not cut out for homeschooling. I don't like it.

You don't have to do it all. You don't have to be everything to everyone. You CAN delagate some of your load. Once you get control of the medicine, things will feel better and you will be able to handle more. It's OK that you can't right now. I have heard that the medicine doesn't get into your system that quickly. And, that it might take a few tries to get it right.

I wish you well, I hope things get better quickly for you.

It's just a quick fix, and not a long term solution, but can you go to Hi Health and check into their stress line of products? They have some things that really do help. But, they are only temporary.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Your youngest is 1? How long have you felt this way? When talking with your counselor, has anyone mentioned PPD? You mentioned that you are taking an antidepressant, but that it doesn't seem to be helping. Know that it can take a lot of trial and error to get the right AD.

After my younger one was born, I did develop some PPD. I tried to deny that's what it was for a long time-I felt crappy because my tooth hurt, I felt crappy because we had financial stress, I felt crappy because the baby cried all the time etc etc etc. I finally went to the dr when she was 8 months old. We tried a couple different ADs-Paxil sent me to the ER with a bad reaction, Wellbutrin not only didn't help but made me really anxious and I ended up with Xanex on top of that, then I went to risperdal (I think that was it.) That seemed to work for a while, then the side effects got to me. I went off on my own, which I DO NOT recommend, I knew I shouldn't have done it. Then I go pg right away and that actually helped. All that to say that just because what you are on now isn't helping ot stablize you, that doesn't mean that there isn't something that can help.

As far as your older one's "issues" I do't know that there really are issues, I think from what you posted it sounds like he might be reacting to his environment-if you are letting them play Wii or watch movies and yelling a lot, that can certainly affect behavior. And that's not to say that I am against Wii or movies at all, just that it sounds like it's hard for you to get involved with them and that does have an effect.

I think that like a previous poster said, your post reads like there might be some depression involved. I think that if you can find some help to get stablized emotionally first, then you would be able to take hold of the reins a little more.


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

Oh darling. You sound so depressed. I could have written your post word for word a while ago! You are not alone! Alot of mothers feel overwhelmed but it's so easy on the internet to just write about the good things and not the bad.

Firstly, I would call your doctor and tell them how you are feeling. They may get you to wait and see how you go on the AD, they may tell you to up your dosage or they may try you on something else.

Secondly, therapy takes time. Unfortunately it's not an instant fix. I can't tell you how many times I wished I could just wake up one morning and be magically fixed and 'normal'. I wish there was a magic pill, I really do!

Your 4yo sounds pretty normal from your original post. I would say, having been there myself, is that some of the behaviour could be down to not getting enough attention. I have been there, I know how hard it is. I would suggest just giving him five minutes undivided attention during the day. Read a book, have a cuddle, build some blocks. You don't need to spend hours playing with him, you would be surprised how much difference a few five minute blocks a day can make.

Get some exercise. I knooooow this is so hard to do when you hardly have the motivation to get out of bed, but it does work! Don't worry about running, or even power walking, just get out and stroll around the block. Build up speed and distance as you start to feel better. 20 mins of exercise improves your mood for 12 hours!! That's pretty amazing!

Lastly, the thing that really helped me was just to suck it up. I KNOW that sounds wrong, and goes against everything people say about emotions and depression etc but it does help. I just had to give myself pep talks CONSTANTLY. When all I wanted to do was sit on the internet and avoid the kids and the housework I would tell myself to 'suck it up. Get going. It needs to be done. If you don't do it, no one else will!' and the more I did the more motivation I actually got and the better I felt. It sometimes takes every single ounce of strength I have but it really is better in the end.

Please call your doctor. I'm not sure what it's like where you are, but I was amazed at the amount of services that were offered to people like us. Respite care, cleaners, classes, so many things!


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## naismama (Oct 28, 2005)

from another perfectionist mama of a 4yo (and her 2yo protege). You are so not alone. 4 is a really tough age, I think. In fact, up until about 3 months ago, I was all ready to homeschool. Then I got to the point where I just felt so overwhelmed. I just felt responsible for so much for the kids--nutrition, laundry, sports, therapies, social life, survival--adding education on top of that is A LOT. Plus, sometimes you just get tired of spending so much energy pleading and negotiating with a 4yo. I bet there are plenty of MDC moms who were going to homeschool but now they can't wait for August. Just because you let someone else handle the bulk of the educating doesn't mean you are any less devoted or committed to your kids.


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## bnhmama (Nov 28, 2006)

I just want to send you hugs, Mama. I went through something very, very similar. For me, it ended up being very bad post partum depression combined with ADD. I was not diagnosed with ADD until about four years ago when ds was 3. It's made a tremendous difference, just knowing. Things like being overwhelmed at starting a job search process are classic marks of my ADD. Also, keeping up with daily tasks and parenting tasks. Just a thought.

Also, I did about a year of talk therapy. If I were you, I'd give the medication a week or so more and then talk to your doctor about a different one. Different meds work in different ways.

My heart goes out to you, Mama. It's such an awful feeling not being able to enjoy parenting. I know because I've been there. It's a dark, dark place.


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## Altair (May 1, 2005)

So sorry to hear you feel that way.

I know you said it may not be what you really want, but I wouldn't rule out working. Instead of a daycare, I'd actually recommend having a nanny at your house so that much of the day to day clean up feeding etc would be done by someone else. Saves the hassles of getting kids ready in the morning and coming home to a hectic house.

If I were in your shoes, I think at this point with both of you home I'd set aside one hour every day that Daddy is in charge and I get to go on the computer and work on *work* related things, looking up jobs, sprucing up resume, applying online, etc. Then Daddy gets one hour to do this too. If you get a job first, then Daddy takes care of the kids during the day and you look for a stop-gap babysitter to come when he gets an interview and needs to be out of the house. If he gets a job first, same thing in reverse. When you both have a job, you hire a full time nanny to come to your house and be in charge of the bringing DS to preschool, kid's laundry and kid's cleaning, feeding them, maybe even getting dinner started. The right professional nanny can make your home feel soooo much calmer!

(FWIW, I don't have a nanny but I do WOH. My partner stays home during the day then we switch and he goes to work when I come home. I do NOT recommend this set-up to anyone feeling stressed out because it's really tough to navigate. I am often jealous of my friends who have a nanny taking care of everything at home, then they get to come home at night and have nice relaxing time with the kids and Daddy!)

ETA: I'd also work on really getting physical with your kids for a good few hours every day. A lot of outside time and running around (for all of you) will help with the jumping on couch and with your mood possibly. It's not out of the realm of possibility too to get your son evaluated to see if there's any underlying issues making parenting harder.


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## demottm (Nov 15, 2006)

Did I write this post in my sleep? No, I couldn't have because my 4yo picked half the keys off my laptop and it would have taken at least 3 full nights. For me every day is like being at war. I am just trying to survive.

I try to find one moment that I enjoy each day...not even a full minute...just a moment.

I am totally there with you. (((HUGS)))


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## staceychev (Mar 5, 2005)

s

Guestmama, there's been a lot of good advice here, so I'm not going to repeat it all. But, I do want to tell you that I, too, have a four-year old. Oh man, do I have a four year old. Some days (like today) it takes every fiber of emotional and intellectual strength to not tell her to shut the h-e-ll up! It doesn't mean that I adore her any less. But four is really really hard. This is going to sound like a strange suggestion (and maybe not a possibility since your DP got laid off), but could you get a mini trampoline? They sell them at sporting goods stores and target and walmart... ours is a saving grace. Move the jumping somewhere other than the couch and burn off some energy.


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

I too just wanted to say that I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself. I think the 4 yr old's behaviour sounds normal (at least in my house!) The suggestion to get a job is a good one. Maybe take a break from MDC so you don't feel like comparing to people who only post a portion of their lives online? I know I have enough of MDC sometimes


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

No family is perfect, like everyone else has said. No mom should ever have to parent alone either. As they say, it takes a village to raise a child. That is true in so many ways.

I know I'm saying the same thing again, so here I go:
I worked as a therapist before I was a mom, just in case it helps you at all in your decisions.

I think that maybe it might be a good idea to look for a better therapist if this one isn't helping. If you do find yourself walking out of session every week a little more helped then stick with them. If you find yourself leaving and not at all helped or motivated or thoughtful in anyway they aren't helping. There are a lot of therapists out there that aren't helpful or just sit behind the desk not listening, like on Freaky Friday when the daughter was being the mom.

It does also take a few weeks for anti depressants to kick in. But if they aren't helping it might be good to look for a different brand. Some anti depressants can also raise anxiety levels, so if these are doing that you need to stop and find a different brand. I'd start to keep track of symptoms you experience while on these meds in case you do find yourself more anxious, less able to sleep, more depressed, etc.

Also, have your thryoid levels tested. Sometimes after you give birth they get wacky. However, check out the site stopthethyroidmadness.com because they talk about the tests that really need to be ran. It took me awhile to find a doctor that would run the right tests. All the doctors I had said they were fine, but it was clear they weren't When I did find one, they ran all the tests and put me on meds, it was a huge difference in my life.

And, like other moms have said, not all moms are cut out to stay home all day. Some moms need that break and time with adults. If you don't want to work that's fine. Maybe just use the time your kids are in daycare as a mommy break. You can start out all day for awhile and see how it goes. And as time goes on and you are feeling more rested you can slowly decrease the time they are in day care until maybe it's only half day every day or only every other day half day. Or you could work 2 or 3 days a week and if you want increase it or decrease it.

However, I think if your therapist was helping they'd be proposing things like that already or helping you form these ideas. Parenting is not a perfect thing, just like life. It has it's ups and downs and is full of self growth. No one has ever said you have to stay home with the kids, or that you have to work for your kids to be in preschool or daycare or that your kids will hate you or feel like you don't love them for putting them in preschool and daycare. I was a preschool teacher before I was a therapist and there were many loving parents that had there kids there, even if they weren't working.

I know society implies these and that there are posts on here that make other parents feel like bad parents (heck, I avoid certain forums and threads because of that), but you can't let that defeat your self esteem. We all have to find what works best for us and as long as it makes our family as a whole happy then that's a sign it's good for us. But if we are neglecting ourselves, it will show up in how we treat others and feel about ourselves.

I really hope you find something and someone that helps you out soon. Parenting can be really hard.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys* 
Could it be that you have clinical depression? You really sound hopeless, which can be a sign. Take care of yourself.

Also, perfect families do not exist. Even those who claim that they are x, y, and z have days where those ideals flee from them.

I agree, or postpartum depression. If your youngest is only 1 thne you could have been suffering from this for awhile.

I know you are on antidepressants, but from what I've read, in order for them to be most effective you need counseling, too. Maybe I missed that part of your post, but are you going to see someone for talk therapy. It's really important.

I don't think you are a bad mom, I think you are depressed. Being a mom is HARD WORK. Most people don't have it together, especially with 2 young boys. I have one and don't have the energy to clean (or the desire for that matter.)

Good luck to you. I know that hopeless felling, I've been there. I actually had to work to turn that around, too, with lots of help!


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

For years, I cried and dreaded the next day when I went to sleep. I saw a few drs who said that I am probably depressd to which I replied, "Well, I am chronically ill and nobody has anything to offer me to get better. That's depressing! Wouldn't you be depressed?"

Anyway, I have been on a journey to becoming healthy since 1998 and this is my first year that I can actually say that I am healthy!!!

BUT while I was working toward fixing my body, I had a lot of really wacky things go on- OCD to an extreme, social anxiety to an extreme, utter dread of living another minute and having to consciously choose to not throw myself off the balcony, etc... I was a huge mess. My body completely ruled my emotional state and my ability to function in any way. In the end, it was only recently (last year) that I found anyone whose knowledge was of use to me- after decades of trying to find someone or just the right information to do it myself.

I have an overactive limbic system and this brings a lot of challenges in my life. Properly functioning adrenal and thyroid are essential to feeling and being well. Mine were tanked and on the verge of shutting down completely. I second the pp's recommendation to read up at Stop the Thyroid Madness.

Part of my journey included super simplification of my life. There was just no way I was in any condition to woh; I couldn't even go grocery shopping on my own. I felt much like you described in your first post as well about having a family. I do still become frustrated when I've not had a break and I am relied upon by everyone for everything to such an extent that if I don't do it/think of it then it simply will not be, and then we all suffer and I bear the burden of that because I'm a sahm. But the difference now is that I recover with a break and don't become overwhelmed at all when I have regular breaks (which have not been happening for the past ten weeks! AAAAHHH I need a break!). I can recharge and come back feeling like me and loving both me and my family too. That was impossible for me before. Once dp realised that I wasn't making things up and that he had to take our dc for an hour or two so I could rest, it made no appreciable difference; I just had nothing and left and an hour or two here and there was just waaaay too little, waaay too late. And I was sick.

Anyway, at one point, I removed all the furniture in my house except beds and the kitchen table & chairs. I removed any doubles of all of our things and anything I didn't want to put any energy into maintaining. I decluttered, but that was incidental; I made the choice that since I was not willing or able to take care of all the stuff, it would go, and it did. Dp at that time did nothing in the home; he was gone 6 or 7 days each week. Ayway, I made my home empty of stuff. I changed my diet to suit my body's needs, worked out the 'ant's (automatic negative thoughts) and replaced them with positive ones, even though my brain fought me in this; I was persistent.

I completely cut out everyone in my life who treated me in ways I didn't want. Some people I told this to; others I didn't and just disappeared from their lives. I had no tolerance for conflict; my body couldn't cope with it at all, s I avoided it and felt fine about it because I was doing things for me, and not to please or placate others, for the first time.

I decided that if I was going to make it to my childrens' adulthood, I had to begin to make choices that included MY well-being and I am still very much on that jurney because I do NOT do that well, but I'm learning; I post about that every now and then.

I used to give my meals to whomever asked for whatever was on my plate! While breastfeeding giant babies!!! And I'd give away my water and realise at the end of the day that I had only had a glass or two all day, which explained why I had headaches and muscle cramps added to my usual constant pain. Obviously everyone else could obtain ther own plate of food (or just eat what was already served to them instead of mine) and their own water! I didn't require my dc to give me physical space ever, so they were always on me somehow and I co-slept so I never had physical space- I also showered with dc because dp wasn't home enough for me to be clean and tehm to be looked after while I washed. I did this for years! I just didn't respect myself then; I didn't know what that meant even.

Now I do, though I am in the process of learning how that works practically.

When I was a wreck for those years, others including dp would ask me why it was so hard for me to be happy when mothers have always done what I was doing and they were happy. I asked for some evidence of that because mothers have only recently in human history done what we do commonly now- raise our dc in isolation without extended family or community directly involved in family life. I haven't known a mum who was actually happy in the situation I was in. I was then told that the pioneers did it.







Show me the evidence that they were HAPPY though. Where is it? And why do we assume they were happy to raise their children in a foreign land in isolation from other families and even their spouses in many cases?

Oh and how about valium? Mother's Little Helper? Was that for all the _happy_ sahms who were just so glad and content in their isolation and feelings of not mattering? Please. Dp found out recently that his deceased grandmother was on a constant buzz from alcohol, and that's probably how she remained so calm while raising her four dc in a foreign country while her dp worked all day and had a fling on the side... There are a lot of self-medicating mamas in those stories but nobody talks about that. Surfing the net can have a similar effect and outcome, I think, but if you are retreating that way, you are not alone! Uuuuh, we're called internet 'users' btw.









It's like the idea that there are mothers who give birth in fields and just keep on working (also told to me when I was suffering very badly after two c/s in two yrs and adrenal exhaustion and more), but while this may be true, it is not HEALTHY and I have no reason to belive that this is an IDEAL of any sort taht I should aspire to in my life! I think it's terribe that a mama would give birth at work and then strap the child on her back with some errant rags and keep working while blood runs down her legs. Wow. So romantic.









You know something is wrong. I don't think it will _just pass_, and I can see that neither do you. Ignore people who say that; they just don't want to feel or acknowledge the pang of responsibility for your situation; you need better friends than that. I think it's pretty much innate that if a human being is suffering, and we know about it, we have a responsibility- it varies, but it's there; most people don't want that burden for others even though their flippant responses indicate that they must be aware of it.

So, move on and find people who are open and proactive in their lives, and think of yourself as being that way too, even if you cannot muster the energy to actually do anything just yet. You are reframing, and if you have to take time to do that, then do so, but do it with intention! Eventually, you will act, and you know that; until then, work on your thoughts and plans and make changes to allow yourself the space to act when you are ready. My empty house provided me with a lot of that. You may have a different strategy, but you need to have one whatever it is.

You have to be proactive and it might take a long time. One of the hardest obstacles I had was the realisation that if I was going to get better, I would have to do it on my own (as if I didn't have enough of that going on!), so I made a plan that involved reorganising my physical space. Then my brain space. Then my body space and all with overlaps of course. Your situation is different, but inevitaby, you'll be the one doing it in you- but it is wonderful to have support. Make sure the support you have is support for what you need- specifically. It's not support to have someone who isn't willing to even recognise what you need or what's going on. That's just a person in close proximity, which can still be useful to you, but you also need personal support in some form.

I instituted quiet time for my dc which took forever to take hold and I have since lost that time (I want it back!). I began to set up boundaries physically, emotionally, etc.... Dp was not supportive of any of what I was doing. He was clueless, and it was heart-rending to me to realise that I was married to someone I would have to fight against to get better! Eventually, I came to the point that I had to tell him that he either supports and doesn't cause me stress or conflict or he leaves. I had to stand my ground because I knew that with a partner in my way, it would take more energy to get better than I even _had_ to expend. It was actually life-threatening for me to have conflict and I endured it anyway for years.









My dp has severe ADD and that was a really difficult thing to navigate; thankfully now he's also working on himself and our home is usually peaceful, we're accomplishing things as a family and we have plans and ideals that line up! What a tranformation!

Anyway, I have had to work two lifetimes-worth to get anywhere in myself and my family in this one life so far, and in the process, my dc who obviously suffered too, also learned and healed as they watched and participated in my journey as they will continue to do. My marriage is better than it has ever been and presently, I am very content and so is dp. We are doing things together- renovating our home, learning better communication and raising our dc _together_ instead of it just being me while he's gone doing his work and school and I am run into the ground. Our whole family has gone through an enormous healing process that has been alongside my recovery, initiated by me.

I could go on and on, but I am willing to bet that you have an idea of how you might begin the journey you have to take from here. And that might be figuring out what to do next (you did this already; you're compiling information and reassurance that the changes you need to make are okay, that you can be a good mother with different ideals or even the ones you have). Of course you can, and now you have evidence of lots of other mamas who agree.









You can do what you need, and you know that the other options are just not satisfactory or you'd be content with what's going on now. I am not in an ivory tower at all; I live this still, but each change and each progression unlocks and unravels a lot of stuff, so while it looks like a mountain to conquer now, it's more like a snakes and ladders board bt without dice- with choices and self-discovery at the tops of ladders and bottoms of snakes. But it's worth whatever little bit of time and energy you can eke out. If you need to rely on the internet for reprieve, then spend your time reading about people who have accomplished in their lives what you want to and learn some tricks to help you get there.

I hate pump-em-up motivational stuff, and I know I'm coming off that way myself right now







but really it's because I'm trying to pack more in than will fit in this space and my time to be on here. I just wanted to share some of what has been helpful to me; maybe some little thing will trigger some little or big thing for you and you'll have that tiny spark that keeps you going onto the next thing. Or not, and even so, I know that being human, you have immense personal power, so regardless of my contribution, you can do what you need to do.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

If your DH is home could you take a weekend to yourself?

I agree with all the advice here - that this may be physical or related to your health, that you need and should keep at finding professional help, and that working or daycare or school (is your eldest almost ready for kindergarten? Do you have junior kindergarten there?) might help a lot.

For what it's worth, I am a much better parent when I am working. I wouldn't homeschool unless there were a serious need of my son's, and I don't think it's a lofty standard that must be met - I completely support it but I also think that school can be completely fine. I have come to look on daycare and school as inviting other adults, expert ones, into my son's life - and so far they have delivered joy in spades.

But right now what might also help is a big break somewhere with nature like a friend's cottage or a tent in the woods (if that wouldn't drive you nuts) or a really cheap B&B or just a sleepover at a relative's where you can ask to just be left alone and sleep.

4 year olds are challenging, and 1 year olds are challenging. Truly.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

Don't have much time at the moment but I know exactly how you feel!!!!!! Have some tips etc would you prefer a PM, email or just for me to write here??????

Parenting and me just really aren't good fellows, I am not horrible or anything and love my kids dearly but in my heart, I am a free spirit and right now I am trapped.


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## wookie (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm not going to repeat all that's been said here but just offer hugs.

Another suggestion: Like you, I love to surf nothing on the computer and like a PP said, I'm the most irritable when the kids start interrupting that time (it's about the only time that I feel I'm in adult company, yk?) What I do now is on das that we have nothing planned, I bring the kids to an indoor playplace or the library and take my computer with me. Most these places have WiFi now where I can hook up my lappie and the kids can play. It saves my sanity some days! My "work" isn't really anything that requires any brain involvement and the kids don't notice I'm not totally interacting _with_ them. Of course I keep an eye on them but for us this seems like a great win-win.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I think one of the most important jobs of a mother is to make sure mom is in a good enough frame of mind to be a loving parent. The rest falls into place, since loving parents provide food and shelter and hugs and what have you. They come in all shapes and sizes from working moms, to survival SAHMs to moms who thrive being SAHMs. We're not cut from the same cloth and there is no shame in saying "I think I'd be a happier mom if I worked."

As a SAHM, I went through a difficult period sending my youngest off to pre-casa Montessori. He has a mild speech delay and across the board everyone agreed that he'd advance much more quickly if he were in school. But I'm a SAHM, shouldn't *I* be able to do that? Well no. I can't replicate how many other kids, I can't replicate an experience where he HAS to use his words and that there is a set structure every day. I am not great at teaching things like that. I went through massive amounts of guilt because I felt like I failed him, especially since my oldest can hold a conversation with the best of them. Anyhow, a month later, his vocabulary has exploded, he has way more confidence and my failure became my success in recognizing my limitation and doing something about it.

Being with two preschoolers day in and day out, with little you time is HARD, you sound overwhelmed by it and their usual crazy behaviour. That's okay. Have you considered even part time work, or volunteer work on weekends? Maybe something like that can help put you in a better frame of mind and build up some skills for re-entry in your field. I felt insane sending my oldest off to his preschool. But he loves it, he has his life, his friends, he is loved and cherished and taught way better than I could manage. He feels blessed that he has his family, his friends, his teachers. Whether it's daycare, school, Montessori, if you find the right environment for your child, it's probably a decision you won't regret. Have you considered sending off your older guy? Or both? Maybe even part time? Help you ease into it? It's kind of a chicken and egg situation with job/funds for care, so hopefully you guys can find something to help remedy that. Consider a new therapist. I don't know about your area, but we have a centre for women with mentoring for work, maybe see if there are some free programs you can get signed up for.

In the meantime, start thinking of things that will help you get through the time more easily. One mom mentioned simplifying and I think that's a super idea. Put away all but a handful of toys. Sort out the kids clothes, get out only as much as you think you might need during the week (including accident clothes) and put the rest away for now. Do you have a yard, somewhere fenced? Get some chalk, some bubbles, a bin with some water and toys, and let the kids burn off some steam while you sit outside and supervise, don't worry if they get wet or dirty. I have a plastic tablecloth, I set my kids up with some markers, paint, paper, stickers, glitter glue and let them go to town. We clean up together, everything goes into it's bin, the scraps get rounded up in the tablecloth and thrown in the garbage. Get DH to chop up a tonne of snacks for your LOs for the week, likewise with dinner, chop up some chicken, brown some meat and throw in some tomato sauce. Personally when my life gets hectic, I find a lot of peace and control in organizing and simplifying, this may or may not work for you, but it's worth a shot. I pick something each day that is going to make me happy, no matter how small. If it's finally installing a 4 slice toaster my FIL won at a bonspiel, then I do it. I did it in fact, just now. I'll work up to something larger after a few more coffees. I think we need a thread in SAHMs on ways to simplify and stay sane!

Don't worry about living up to a standard of organic, homeschooling crunchiness. There are people here WAY more crunchy than I and I don't let it bother me, because what we have works, we're happy and that is all that matters! The only standard you need to live up to is yours and making your lives as happy as possible.


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## mouthcave (Oct 9, 2008)

I think you've already gotten so much good advice. I just want to say I've been there and am a few bad days from being there again.








Staying away from the Internet helps a lot for me, heh.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

You've gotten lots of good advice. The only thing I'll add is that when I feel overwhelmed and paralyzed and like I can't get anything done, it helps me a ton if I just pick one small thing to focus on and just do that one thing. Like, if the whole house is a disaster area and I feel totally unable to cope with it, I will decide that I'm going to forget about the whole house and just get the dishes washed, or even just get *some* of the dishes washed. Then I stop once I'm done and admire my work and tell myself what a good job I did. Rather than expecting that I'll get everything done, I just celebrate if I manage to get *anything* done. That way I can get some positive feelings running through the system and things start to feel a little easier, if you know what I mean. And choosing one thing and doing it breaks me out of the paralysis of, "Wow, my house is filthy. I'm horrible. Everyone else manages to keep their houses clean, so why can't I?" etc.

And yes, you are not alone. It's just that most people are afraid to be honest about the times when parenthood is really, really hard.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

OP, huge hugs and a couple thoughts.

I'm not in exactly the same place right now, but yes I do understand. I have a non-listening future sociopath on my hands (aka a 3yo) and sometimes I really wonder why I had kids and if I should even BE a mom. (Luckily...most of the time I don't feel that way. But I can see how it would happen.)

There are 3 things I wanted to say here....

1. Your job description is "Mom" not "Saint." You do not need to be full-on engaged in playing with your kids while managing a perfect home and feeling joyful and fulfilled. I don't like playing. I don't play. I do set up activities sometimes and I do take the kids out, but for the most part DD is expected to use her imagination and amuse herself when I am busy. Playgroup and playdates help too. There is nothing wrong with sending your children to preschool either. It's all a matter of what works for your family, not living up to some wildly exaggerated ideal. If doing the minimum buys you the time you need to get on top of things, by all means do it!!

2. Working....if you want to get away from the kids, get away from the kids. But don't get a job unless you _want_ a job. I personally found the working-mom lifestyle very, very busy. Adding professional/deadline stress on top of home life did not solve any parenting issues for me. It seems extreme to me to go to the length of getting a job when a vacation might do it. I do agree with PP that daycare often gets a worse rap than it deserves (after all, you get to _pick_ your daycare) but the time spent transporting kids and speed-housekeeping when you get home can eat up the fun of family life while leaving you with the hard work.

3. The two pieces of advice that I most hate seeing on this site are "this too shall pass" and "lower your standards." These get offered up all the time but _they do not work for everyone_. No matter how true it is, I resent the implication...my 3yo just peed on the floor and poked the baby in the eye and I have to change???? NOPE. Many behaviors that are developmentally normal are still not acceptable and still need to be addressed, and I'm very type A so I don't WANT low standards.

Anyway, lots more to say but DD is up from her nap and I did promise computer time so gotta go!


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

I just wanted to add that there was a time a few weeks ago where by the end of the week I was about to go insane--really, I thought I was. I was scaring myself how harshly I was reacting to the kids. My MIL took the boys for an overnight, it was about 36 hours of kid free time, and I SLEPT. I allowed myself to sleep as much as I wanted/needed. They came home Sunday night, I visited with them and put them to bed, got one more good night's sleep and on the Monday morning, I felt like a new person. I couldn't believe the difference. So, if you have sleep deprivation going on and there is anyway you can get your 4yo over to gramma's and your dh to do the overnight plus an entire day (maybe mother's day!) for you so you can sleep, I would highly recommend it!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

((((hugs))))

about the posts here. I don't post my failures here much. No one really cares about what didn't work. They want to hear about what did. Also i have read posts from people I know in real life and they sounded like super mom. liar liar pants on fire. thats all I gotta say. Also one mans"well behaved, super intellegent kid" may be another mans whining screaming not so bright kid. i take everything I read here with a grain of salt.

getting a part time job saved my life. then I woke up one morning and had no husband (he ran off with another woman) and was all of a sudden no longer a stay at home homeschooling mom. well crap. time to ship off the kids to daycare and school. and yep. it sucks letting go of those ideals but it hasn't hurt the kids either. they are fine. and so am I. and I like my job. and they like school. they like going to grandmas. we are ok. and I am a better mom than I have ever been before. I mean losing my xh helps but also knowing how precious our time together is helps. and adult interaction during the day.

also shutting off the computer helps me be a better mom. Lets face, the more I am on line talking about being super mom the less time I am actually spending with my kids and I get irritated when they won't shut up and let me read. I'll admit it. I have been this mom (they are with their dad right now). Even when I was a stay at home mom the best thing I ever did for parenting or my social life though was to turn off the computer.

You do not have to be the perfect AP poster mom. the perfect mothering mom. it is ok to serve your family food from the grocery store, it is ok to send them to public school this year, it is ok to have a half clean house most of the time. they can watch Tv and wear mismatched socks (I have just embraced this last one...). heck my kid went to school wearing all pink (several different shades) her hair wasn't brushed and her socks did not match and her lunch box contained speghetti os, apple sauce (like the one she had for breakfast) and a pudding cup but ya know what, no one yelled or cried no one rushed. it was a great morning. and she got picked up from school by the soon to be step mommy that my ex ran off with. yeah, shes gonna judge me. don't care. my baby went to school happy today. and rockin' a style thats all hers. embrace mediocore. let the crap slide.

Your son sounds like a bundle of eneergy, Is there anyone who would be willing to help you get a break every now and then? Just until you can get yourself rested enough to deal with his behavior?

Barring any extrordinary behavior issues, it is ok to to use discipline. I know saying no and expecting obedience is not popular here on mothering but it really is ok to have a plan for teaching your child discipline. If you would like to talk more about that send me a PM.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

I posted earlier, but today something occurred to me that has been completely necessary for my sanity, and a major driving force behind the complete 180* in my life and lifestyle.

I need to work with my hands at something that has permanence. Food prep, laundry, diaper changes, sweeping, dishes, etc... are just no substitute for me and I feel like Rosy Robot when that's all that I am doing day in and day out. I feel like if I were supposed to be a domestic housekeeper, I would likely enjoy those things, but I only do them because they are necessary and after a short while, I get very cranky and eventually depressed if I don't start doing something that matters and that is permanent.

I thought of this because dp and I were loading renovation scraps and appliances onto the truck to take to the dump today, and it struck me how free I feel, even though I'm picking up garbage. It struck me how much more enjoyable that was than making dinner and I reflected on why. It's because once that huge pile of scrap is loaded and gone, it's a permanent change and we've taken another step forward. Dinner is a meal that has to made and makes more work afterward which is also impermanent. Yes, the food we eat does take up some permanence in our bodies, which is why we eat as we do (it's important to me that we are as healthy as we can be), but it feels like I'm on a hamster wheel if that's the quality of work that I do without end.

Later today (once my food has settled and I can lean and bend again- sooooo pg), dp and I will be siding another wall with board and batten, and though this is not my ideal form of creative expression, it is so satisfying because when I've finished for the day, the wall is sided and our studio is one day closer to being finished, which is a permanent thing, not a chore to me, or menial-feeling at all.

Before we moved to the remote north, I struggled immensely because nothing I did had any verifiable permanence and I felt like I put effort into meaningless things and that I didn't matter in my own life. I figured that anyone could mind my dc, anyone could feed them and change their diapers- anyone! And on top of that, not only was I the only one doing that day in and day out, I could not see a single sign of me anywhere in my life. There were signs of dp all over, signs of my dc, but I lived with nothing of my own to remind me that I was still me. I completely lost track of who I was, or who I was to become. Those were very dark days.

This radical lifestyle change for us was really driven by me and my need to live with purpose, doing things that are authentic to who I thought I might be, and that matter to me. It has taken dp longer to embrace these things for/in himself, but that is part of his personality; he has really begun to come into his own too, and now he cannot even imagine trying to live again the way we used to live. It's so foreign to us now. It's ony been four years since we left the city, but it has been an amazingly life-giving journey.

You may have a completely different perspective and different strategies for meeting your needs, but it is okay to make radical changes, even if they are only temporary. We've gone from city life to back-to-the-land and are steadily stripping away our dependence on industry and social constructs that don't make sense to us. We realise that we may later want to return to some things we'll be leaving behind, but for us, we really have to strip our life bare so that we can build from a foundation of seeing and knowing ourselves so that we can choose how we will live and it is an authentic, truly informed choice.

Perhaps rebuilding from whatever point you lost your way would help you. Perhaps you are not doing anything that matters in a grander sense than the rewards inherent to the tasks, and you need something more than that at least to undergird the more menial aspects of your life. I don't know. I do see that many, many people rage and are depressed simply because they cannot see their mark in their own lives. They need something more authentic to who they are than their lives afford them. There are a lot of people in this region of Canada who come here precisely to discover who they are and what life is from it's barest, most primal foundation. Perhaps you are searching for meaning in your life and will have to make radical changes to strip away everything that clouds your vision of what that is for you.








I hope you are having a better day today. I also hope that knowing that you are not supposed to just accept this and allow it to pass is helpful to you. Those ideas are utterly absurd to me; if something is wrong, and it clearly is, then waiting for it to pass as though 'it' were a mindful decision-maker that has chosen to inflict you for now, or that there are times in life that are supposed to drag you through the mire helpless, is just ridiculous to me. I have yet to see things happen that way in my life and I have suffered a LOT; there has always been a reason and a way to fix it or learn a better way.

Yes much of my suffering was inflicted upon me, but as an adult, I have freedom to choose a different way of living and being. I can repair the damage done to me. I can remove the damagers. I have myriad options from which to choose. I do not hold this view for children because their choices are limited by others, typically.

Yes things just happen, but we have the ability to act as well, to respond and to choose. When I have felt paralysed, I was- because I was not acting. Then I changed that and found myself to be rather effective at engaging my problems and finding solutions- even though it has sometimes taken several failures before I could refine my approach to solve the problem. Those failures were precious and enormously helpful for my education, which led to better approaches, and so on and so on.

It was also very difficult to act when my body was not functioning well; this can be and for me WAS a _major_ obstacle, which is why I focused my effort there initially. Now, many years later, I just take care of myself; it does not require the focus it used to anymore, but it still needs doing.

Anyway, I think there are a lot of options for you. You _can_ do what you need to do! You are equipped, and even if you have to do a huge amount of set-up before you can move on, you can do _that_ too.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

s mama I have boys same ages as yours and there is not a day that does not go by that I either want to run out of the house screaming (done that 1x already), never come home from work (tried that) or just wish myself away from being a mother.

ugh- it is about survival like StormBride said, and I completely know what you mean about the yelling. Its like you have 2 volumes - yelling or yelling louder! I hate that about me and how I have to talk to my kids.

Bless your heart for even considering homeschooling - I know that I could not handle it (sides from working f/t). Lots of other wise mommas have posted and I just want to offer my hugs and support to you.








s


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

I can relate to what you've written, guestmama, especially the perfectionist stuff and the depression.










This book is life-changing, so I've heard. So many people have told me that it has helped them. I'm working on adding the supplements recommended in it, and I'm hoping it will help. The Mood Cure: The 4-Step Program to Take Charge of Your Emotions--Today.


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## buckeye_bebe (May 16, 2006)

Oh how I wish you were in Arizona. I would do so many things with you and for you. If you ever make it this way, please let me know and let me treat you to lunch. You deserve it!


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

If you find that you spend a lot of time mentally bullying yourself to do housework or play with the kids, that might be something to try and change. It's amazing how much energy gets burned up doing that. When you think about a task you want to get done or something you 'should' be doing, rather than put yourself into a state of mental anguish, give yourself a YES or NO answer.

Think "Am I going to do this now?" Yes or no. If it's something that actually is essential, ask yourself "Am I going to feel more like doing this later?" or "Is there going to be a more convenient time to get this done?" Yes or no. If the answer is no, the answer is NO. Decision made, put it out of your head and move on. If the answer is yes, then go do it right then.

It's a lot easier to deal with not having gotten something done if you've made a conscious decision to not do it. It sort of declutters your brain... I don't know how else to explain it.

Other than that, I'd just be repeating what everyone else has said... just try and hang on.


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## Arianwen1174 (May 26, 2009)

Stumbled onto this thread and everyone has said great things but i just wanted to give you a hug! Keep holding on!


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mummoth* 
When you think about a task you want to get done or something you 'should' be doing, rather than put yourself into a state of mental anguish, give yourself a YES or NO answer.

YES! This is hugely important! I only just learned this through exploring my work ethic relating to my creativity but it has been a whole-life-lesson for me. I am reading Fearless Creating and this has been the most helpful and pivotal point for me thus far, and for me it has been huge. Make the decision and move on- to doing it or to something else or to another decision. This is a complete reversal of paralysis, even if at the end of the day, you have chosen NO the whole way through. You have been consciously choosing. Strange, but true.


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## guestmama-001 (Nov 20, 2006)

I just wanted to sincerely thank each and every one of you that has posted to help me. This is the most support I've had on this board ever, but that is because I don't usually post very personal things here. I am very embarrassed by my inability to function right now and I it's scary to me to let everyone else know about it.

I don't really have the energy to respond to individuals, but I did read every word of your posts. Some things I have done are stopped being on the internet so much. Which is truly scary because it means I have to face life in my own house with my own family and my own issues. The thought of that just bores me to tears. Secondly, I have made several appointments, one for the counselor, one for the psych-nurse about meds and one for a complete physical. I can't really doctor or counselor shop right now because I am on the state insurance and it is very limited. Plus we do not have the funds for me to be spending a bunch of money out of pocket. I do feel that exercising would help me out, but taking that first motivated step is going to be so hard. I keep saying I want to, but I never get around to it. I just don't know what to do! And then I feel like I should be taking my kids with me.

I think part of the problem is my relationship. I am just at the point where I'm not sure if this person is the one for me. I keep going back and forth about it in my head. We fight a lot, he is not the person I pictured myself being with, but then he is the kids' dad and he is a good guy. And maybe we could be happy together? I feel like I need to get well before I can make that decision, but then also I feel like I can't get well until I've made that decision.









With my boys, I know I just need to set firmer boundaries and pay more attention to them. My son does have a mini-trampoline but I don't make him use it per say. I suppose I could come up with some, jump there so many times thing.

Mostly I feel that I just need some change. When I was younger I could change easily, up and move or get a new job. But now it is not that easy. I have never felt content in my life. It feels like I am always searching. Does one ever come to contentment?

I have read The Mood Cure and I did feel that supplements were helping, but I could not keep on top of taking them. I need to start back up again, but I hated taking all those pills.

I am going to enroll my son in kindergarten for next year, I even went and got the paperwork. Thank you for helping me make that decision!

Preggie: I really appreciate your responses, you put a lot of time into them! I do agree on doing something with permanence. That was why I hated waiting tables, the job was never done! And same with housework. It's just over and over, mind-numbing, repetitive work. Somebody shoot me now. I definitely want to simplify, it's just finding the time to do it. My dp is on board with that.

As for a job, part of me wants to, but part of me doesn't right now because if dp is laid off all summer, we want to take advantage and do lots of camping. So we'll see. I did turn in an application to volunteer at the library, but I never followed up on that. I have always suffered from low self-esteem and putting myself out there scares me to death. There are lots of things I'd like to try in theory, but actually doing them gives me total anxiety. And I know it's just silly, but I wonder what people will think of me, etc. I just don't know how to get over that.

When I got pg with my first son, I was still figuring myself out. I was at a point in my life where I didn't know which way to go and becoming pregnant was almost a relief because then it was decided for me. I would be a mother and I was happy about it. And then I went back to school so that was another goal. Now I have no goal. Other than raising kids, but that is not tangible and not immediate. I have no idea what kind of goal to have.

I know giving my kids more attention and love will be good in the long run and I want to do it.

That's all I have time for now, but I really do appreciate all the thought you guys put in to your posts. Truly.


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## lyra1977 (Oct 25, 2009)

Amen to the pps who said "we are not meant to do this alone!" So, so true. I had mild depression last winter and part of my recovery was prioritizing finding other moms I could connect with and find support from (and offer support to).

Also, ditto what pps said that none of us have it together. I'm also a perfectionist and I have everything together on different days. Today I cleaned my house but DH did the parenting this morning and tomorrow I may be a great mom (and a great daughter) but will be a lousy housekeeper, leave the cooking to my DH and etc. Being a mom is truly a juggling act and it takes all of your energy and concentration to keep the balls in the air. That's impossible to do when you're feeling overwhelmed and depressed.








you are not alone and you don't have to feel this way. Definitely look into seeing a counselor.


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## lalemma (Apr 21, 2009)

Oh, mama.









You've gotten tons of good advice, but I just want to reiterate: when you see people on the internet talking about their lives, you are, often, seeing a spin job.

You don't know that woman. You don't know her life. You don't know how often you are seeing someone talk about the kind of person they WISH they were, they kind of life they WISH they were living.

And there's a ton of weird competitiveness on the mom internet - or maybe it's not really competition, maybe it's people reaching for answers, reaching for perfection, reaching for the perfect solution that will make their life perfect, bearable.

"We're MORE organic/Britax-using/rear-facing/co-sleeping than you. Our baby didn't eat solids until she was three years old! Our teenager is still rear-facing! Our Waldorf child has never even SEEN a TV. Oh, your baby won't stop crying? Probably because you vaccinate/had a traumatic birth/are somehow imperfect."

That's such hogwash. HOGWASH. Yeah, I said it.

I've said it before here, but if only to remind myself: life is hard and rich and there's an element of chance. That can seem terribly scary to people, so instead of admitting that there but for the grace of God go I, with my screaming baby, or marriage that's falling apart, or PPD, or C-section, or not being able to breastfeed, or child with special needs, I'm going to insist that if you had just had a doula, or a better lactation consultant, or the right organic crib mattress, your life would be perfect, just like I'm pretending mine is.

HOGWASH.

Life is hard and interesting and complicated and ever-evolving. When I'm in a good place, I can look at my life and think: "What an adventure this is!" - when I'm not, I think: "Holy shit! Why did I do any of this?!? I'm running away."

And I think that's so common as to be universal.

You are totally normal. Get help if you feel that help would make you feel better, absolutely. But know that you are totally normal. That mama who's bragging about feeding her perfectly-behaved unschooled, non-vaxed, uncirced baby a from-scratch organic lunch before they head off in their Prius to pick up their CSA, she just had a fight with her husband. And she hates her hair and wonders if she should have stayed in school and become a novelist.

You are normal. Everybody, in the immortal words of REM, hurts. People shout about having all the answers because nobody has any of the answers, and it's scary to feel alone in that.


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## LuckyMommaToo (Aug 14, 2003)

Lalemma, brava! Loved your post. Hugs to you, Guestmama, it is definitely a journey.
-e


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## Grace and Granola (Oct 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
Oh, mama.









You've gotten tons of good advice, but I just want to reiterate: when you see people on the internet talking about their lives, you are, often, seeing a spin job.

You don't know that woman. You don't know her life. You don't know how often you are seeing someone talk about the kind of person they WISH they were, they kind of life they WISH they were living.

And there's a ton of weird competitiveness on the mom internet - or maybe it's not really competition, maybe it's people reaching for answers, reaching for perfection, reaching for the perfect solution that will make their life perfect, bearable.

"We're MORE organic/Britax-using/rear-facing/co-sleeping than you. Our baby didn't eat solids until she was three years old! Our teenager is still rear-facing! Our Waldorf child has never even SEEN a TV. Oh, your baby won't stop crying? Probably because you vaccinate/had a traumatic birth/are somehow imperfect."

That's such hogwash. HOGWASH. Yeah, I said it.

I've said it before here, but if only to remind myself: life is hard and rich and there's an element of chance. That can seem terribly scary to people, so instead of admitting that there but for the grace of God go I, with my screaming baby, or marriage that's falling apart, or PPD, or C-section, or not being able to breastfeed, or child with special needs, I'm going to insist that if you had just had a doula, or a better lactation consultant, or the right organic crib mattress, your life would be perfect, just like I'm pretending mine is.

HOGWASH.

Life is hard and interesting and complicated and ever-evolving. When I'm in a good place, I can look at my life and think: "What an adventure this is!" - when I'm not, I think: "Holy shit! Why did I do any of this?!? I'm running away."

And I think that's so common as to be universal.

You are totally normal. Get help if you feel that help would make you feel better, absolutely. But know that you are totally normal. That mama who's bragging about feeding her perfectly-behaved unschooled, non-vaxed, uncirced baby a from-scratch organic lunch before they head off in their Prius to pick up their CSA, she just had a fight with her husband. And she hates her hair and wonders if she should have stayed in school and become a novelist.

You are normal. Everybody, in the immortal words of REM, hurts. People shout about having all the answers because nobody has any of the answers, and it's scary to feel alone in that.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
Oh, mama.









You've gotten tons of good advice, but I just want to reiterate: when you see people on the internet talking about their lives, you are, often, seeing a spin job.

You don't know that woman. You don't know her life. You don't know how often you are seeing someone talk about the kind of person they WISH they were, they kind of life they WISH they were living.

And there's a ton of weird competitiveness on the mom internet - or maybe it's not really competition, maybe it's people reaching for answers, reaching for perfection, reaching for the perfect solution that will make their life perfect, bearable.

"We're MORE organic/Britax-using/rear-facing/co-sleeping than you. Our baby didn't eat solids until she was three years old! Our teenager is still rear-facing! Our Waldorf child has never even SEEN a TV. Oh, your baby won't stop crying? Probably because you vaccinate/had a traumatic birth/are somehow imperfect."

That's such hogwash. HOGWASH. Yeah, I said it.

I've said it before here, but if only to remind myself: life is hard and rich and there's an element of chance. That can seem terribly scary to people, so instead of admitting that there but for the grace of God go I, with my screaming baby, or marriage that's falling apart, or PPD, or C-section, or not being able to breastfeed, or child with special needs, I'm going to insist that if you had just had a doula, or a better lactation consultant, or the right organic crib mattress, your life would be perfect, just like I'm pretending mine is.

HOGWASH.

Life is hard and interesting and complicated and ever-evolving. When I'm in a good place, I can look at my life and think: "What an adventure this is!" - when I'm not, I think: "Holy shit! Why did I do any of this?!? I'm running away."

And I think that's so common as to be universal.

You are totally normal. Get help if you feel that help would make you feel better, absolutely. But know that you are totally normal. That mama who's bragging about feeding her perfectly-behaved unschooled, non-vaxed, uncirced baby a from-scratch organic lunch before they head off in their Prius to pick up their CSA, she just had a fight with her husband. And she hates her hair and wonders if she should have stayed in school and become a novelist.

You are normal. Everybody, in the immortal words of REM, hurts. People shout about having all the answers because nobody has any of the answers, and it's scary to feel alone in that.























s again to you guestmama!


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## mermaidmama (Sep 17, 2008)

I just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this guest, even though you were scared and embarressed.


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## Icehockey18 (Oct 24, 2009)

Nak
I don't have a lot of time, but I had to post. First of all (((hugs))) to you mama! I understand (to a degree) the depression part. I was on antidepresents for many years (for anxiety and depression, both extremely prevelent in my family). When u got married I actually got off them (we decided to have kids right away and u didn't want to be on any 'drugs' while pregnant). I'm actually doing ok (it's been since august 08). I think the prego hormones and hormones from nursing have helped a lot! I also came to realize, shortly after ds' birth, that I just can not do everything! I too am a perfectionist and I just learned to let things go (to a degree







). It's been very hard, but I realized I would go crazy if I didn't!!! I wanted to post some things that help me and a apologize if I am repeating advice from another post, I haven't read them all yet...so, two things that really help me when I'm at my 'wits end' are hot baths and going for a jog. The jogging really helps! I think for three main reasons: 1. You release a lot of endorhpins when you run (there really is a 'runners high'. Once you get over the starting phase jogging really can make you feel euphoric 2. It gives you time to yourself. You can think, listen to music, take in the world around, it's great. And 3. It can help you feel a sense of accomplishment. If you set (realistic) goals you can easily meet them and it makes you feel as if you 'did something' that day. For the baths, I ask dh for 20 minutes of 'me' time a few times a week so I can soak in the tub. I bring a book or a magazine (and sometimes a glass of wine







) and just RELAX. It's different then trying to bathe while the kids are there but you're still 'responsible' you really need your dp/dh to be there to take care of the kids so u can relax!
Anyway... I hope your feeling a little better! Big hugs! And as for a 'perfect' mom... There isn't one!!!!


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

In addition to my sympathies (I do understand, especially about falling into moods like you're in) I have two suggestions and I hope they don't sound fickle:

*Kundalini Yoga and Meditation* I've been doing it daily (even if just for 3 minutes!!)for over 5 years and absolutley nothing comes close to helping me achieve mental and emotional balance and experience energy the way it does. Its also led me to some very deep spiritual experiences and makes me feel "connected".

If not this, perhaps try a spiritual practice that works for you.

Also, *Reconnect with DH* Kids are really sensitive to our friction and I know when we're having major issues, DS is out-of-control as a response. Not only that, when we're doing well, I tend to be more relaxed (duh-who feels good fighting?), so I'm more in-tune and am more patient with DS.

Anyways, I hope these suggestions don't sound silly to you, but that's what helps us through difficulties.

Oh, and as far as no libido-are you still nursing?? I had no sexdrive while nursing..at all! At the end of a year DS started to refuse to nurse and I let it go..I was honestly happy to be able to have sex again...this might sound selfish to some who ExtendBF, but for me, its what helped us all to relate much better as a family.

And I also understand about MDC..I'm anti-AP label







I do whatever suits us for the moment and am far from perfect. I WOH 3-4 nights a week and its my social scene and helps me feel better than being a SAHM. I thought I could do SAHM'ing, but I'm not cut-out for it..I started to get depressed and felt so blah all the time! Just try not to do too much if you do work- for me, 4 nights is pushing it since it messes with my sleep and then I can get cranky and moody from lack of sleep...so moderation is good!

Also, HS, no way-yet another thing I thought we'd do, but DS has a super social personality and we both enjoy breaks from each other.

Keep your eyes out for other daycare situations: neighbors that watch kids and need a job, etc.. that's what worked out for us and its like second family day or night!!!


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## stephanie95 (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mermaidmama* 
I just wanted to say thank you so much for posting this guest, even though you were scared and embarressed.

















I too struggle much like you. Sometimes life just feels so difficult. I appreciate your courage for posting. Your thread here has given me many ideas and comfort as well. So by sharing, you have also helped.


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

s from me, too, Mama. We're in the process of looking for a daycare and trying to get DH a job, for many similar issues. In DH's case, I think even a part-time job would benefit him. It would give him social connections, people to relate to away from home, and a chance to be away from DS.

As much as I believe in doing what you love for a career, some people never get there. I don't expect what most people call a career for DH. A job will take care of what we need.

We're still on the fence over part-time or full-time work. I was originally thinking two days a week for DH, but if the Montessori school we're looking at is as wonderful as it sounds I might be willing for him to go full-time.

For you, guestmama, a two-day-a-week job would allow your family to take four-day weekend camping trips, while providing some income and time away from the children. Many part-time jobs don't offer benefits, which might let you stay with your current plan. I don't know what the income would do to your current benefit/situation, though.


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## mummyofan (Jun 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
For what it's worth, I strongly suspect that many of those posts you're talking about are more in the realms of fantasy than in reality. Anyone can be perfect online.
If I were in your position, I would get a job. It sounds like you really need a break from your situation.

I really think you are suffering from post partum depression.
I have not gone farther than this post, as I thought this summed it up perfectly "Anyone can be perfect online" This is SO true.
I have dayd where I'm shouting alot, too. Most of my parenting days, I'm admitting are great; I love it, but some days I reach for that wine glass and think "gosh glad they're in bed"

I think you need some counselling, help to get a life outside the house; not everyone is cut out for this full time mother thing (just like not everyone is cut out to do every job, I couldn't do my Husbands, just like he couldn't do mine. I'm an ex Nanny and Teacher. This is what i DO.

Really, I think you can look at other people differently, too, as lots of people are going through this, but YOU came out and said it! That's REALLY brave. (I don't think anyone would have thought worse of you had you done it under your years old name, but I get the reason.

Today is for you. It's Mother's day. Take some time to be thankful you're there for your children.

I'm going to go and read the others.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I've suffered from depression too, and I know how hard it can be. A couple of thoughts that may be repeating things other people have said, because I scanned many of the replies.

First, it sounds like your meds are either not the right ones or not the right dose. _Most_ people need a much higher dose than the initial one. When I was at my worst, I needed 4x the starter dose. It didn't make me a different person, it didn't harm me (or my nursing child), but it did make it possible for me to start getting well.

Second, it sounds to me like you are taking good, positive steps to get better -- you're seeing a counselor, you're going back to your prescriber about the meds. Celebrate the little accomplishments. One of the things about depression is that it sucks the energy and creativity out of your brain. It's hard to think, let alone do anything. *The fact that you've made these steps is huge.* Celebrate those.

Third, how do you do this? You let others help. You have a right to be helped. The odd thing I found when I needed help was that it strengthened my relationships with a few people. It's really really really hard to show vulnerability. Doing so took a lot of trust. But I now have 3 people I can trust implicitly to come help when needed. I didn't learn that the first time I needed help. I learned it the second. So if it doesn't happen soon for you, that's OK.

Along a similar vein, it's also OK to let your partner take on some of the burden for a while. One of the things I've learned in nearly 20 years of marriage is that at any one time, no marriage is 50-50. Over time, yes. But dh and I have had a few years where it's been wildly out of balance, one way or the other. The years our children were born and I had severe PPD, dh took up the slack. The year dh was hospitalized 3x, I took up a lot of the slack. Even now with both of us healthy, dh's currently doing more because of my job and the kids' activities.

Finally, don't let the internet fool you into thinking people's lives are in control. As I type this, there is a sinkful of dishes waiting to be washed. I have only a vague idea of where our children are (they're down the street with friends). I can't remember the last time I vacuumed our bedroom. Right now, there's so much stuff on the floor in there that the vacuum won't fit. Some days, our kids spend far too much time on the TV or the computer. Yesterday, I spent an hour playing stupid computer games rather than doing dishes. Why? Because I'd spent 6 hours ferrying dd to 3 different activities and grocery shopping and I was spent. It was a conscious choice. The dishes are still there, and I'm feeling better. It was the right choice. (And I never do crafts. I hate crafts. All they do is make a mess. And then you've got more junk to deal with. I hate crafts. At least when I bake I get to eat the cookie dough.)

Hang in there please. Ask for help. Take the help that's offered. Go back to your health care providers. It will get better.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

I haven't read any of the replies, but, FWIW I found 4 to be the hardest age.


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

I can't make it better and offer you some hugs. Your kids are predisposed to love you so although you yell to much and hit them sometimes (try to stop the smacking though) they love you anyway. You are clearly depressed. Depression meds take a minimum of six weeks to become effective IF you have chose the right one the first time. Don't stop taking them. Sometimes when they go effective it is literally like a lightswitch effect, sometimes it comes on slowly. I would have your son tested for ADHD. And investigate Calm Child tincture. Get you son more active. Wear him out if you can. Gotta run. more later.


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## 2boyzmama (Jun 4, 2007)

Thank you for this thread. You are describing my husband to a t. Reading this thread is helping me understand him. I don't understand depression, I'm guilty of saying "suck it up" or "try harder" or "just get organized and it'll be easier" or any number of other placating phrases.

Then, because he's struggling, I come home from work (I WOH, he primarily is SAHD) and I pick up all the slack, taking care of most of the cooking, cleaning, organizing, planning, etc. I thought I was being helpful by doing that, but I wonder now if I am worsening his depression/low self-esteem by coming home after a full day of work and doing what he couldn't do all day. Does he resent me for that?? You've given me a lot to think about.

Like I said, I don't understand depression, but I have felt that drowning feeling before, where it feels like life is spiralling out of control and I am about to lose it. For me, what has worked is to make a list of everything, then prioritize it, and just start doing it. The priorities will vary by person, I need to have a semi-clean house before I can focus on anything else in my life, clutter/mess on the floors and counters will consume me and I can't focus on anything else. So the first thing I do when I'm feeling overwhelmed is clean. I say I'm an angry cleaner









Once I feel like I have a handle on my house, I can focus on the next thing, maybe setting some more rules or guidelines for the boys, maybe catching up on appts/bills/paperwork. Some people are opposite, some need to focus on behavior before they even begin to worry about the state of their house. It's just a preference. But the point is, pick one thing, and go.

I have also found that schedule/routine/structure is important for me. When I'm about to lose control of life, I force myself to go to bed at a certain time, and get up at a certain time. I force myself to workout every day. I force myself to shower every day. Same time every day. For me that means getting up before dawn, and at first it sucks, but after a few weeks, I feel better, I look better, my mood is better. And then, somehow, the other stuff just seems either not so inconquerable, or it somehow takes care of itself. I don't know how me going to the gym or for a walk at dawn makes the laundry get done, but it does!

This is all what works for me. My husband has not found what works for him. He is still in your shoes, saying things like "maybe we should burn the house down and start over". I keep trying to push my solutions onto him, but my solutions only work for me, he has to find what works for him. I don't know how to help him. I can just give him patience, love, and space.

I hope that you also are getting patience, love, and space. Please talk to your husband. Tell him that you are lost right now and trying to find your way, and that you just need the time and support. He sounds like a great guy, but he is probably hurting seeing you hurt. Assure him that he has not caused this, and that you do love him, and that you are trying.

I'd also suggest that you consider telling your older son that too. Sit down, read a book together, cuddle some, then apologize to him for yelling/spanking/whatever. Tell him that mommies aren't perfect. Tell him that you are going to try harder tomorrow. Then tomorrow, do the same thing. When you are both feeling calm, have some snuggles and talk about what you did wrong AND right that day, then promise to try again tomorrow. You'd be surprised how far that might go towards helping him. AND you.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nina_yyc* 
...if you want to get away from the kids, get away from the kids. But don't get a job unless you _want_ a job.

...I'm very type A so I don't WANT low standards.

I agree with what you're trying to say! Telling me to lower my standards isn't helpful nor would 'get a job' be helpful...

Actually when I feel really low...getting off the computer and really just being present with my kids (and myself) makes such a difference. Reading about SO many people's problems and/or "ideal" lives can become overwhelming sometimes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalemma* 
Oh, mama.









You've gotten tons of good advice, but I just want to reiterate: when you see people on the internet talking about their lives, you are, often, seeing a spin job.

You don't know that woman. You don't know her life. You don't know how often you are seeing someone talk about the kind of person they WISH they were, they kind of life they WISH they were living.

And there's a ton of weird competitiveness on the mom internet - or maybe it's not really competition, maybe it's people reaching for answers, reaching for perfection, reaching for the perfect solution that will make their life perfect, bearable.

"We're MORE organic/Britax-using/rear-facing/co-sleeping than you. Our baby didn't eat solids until she was three years old! Our teenager is still rear-facing! Our Waldorf child has never even SEEN a TV. Oh, your baby won't stop crying? Probably because you vaccinate/had a traumatic birth/are somehow imperfect."

That's such hogwash. HOGWASH. Yeah, I said it.

I've said it before here, but if only to remind myself: life is hard and rich and there's an element of chance. That can seem terribly scary to people, so instead of admitting that there but for the grace of God go I, with my screaming baby, or marriage that's falling apart, or PPD, or C-section, or not being able to breastfeed, or child with special needs, I'm going to insist that if you had just had a doula, or a better lactation consultant, or the right organic crib mattress, your life would be perfect, just like I'm pretending mine is.

HOGWASH.

Life is hard and interesting and complicated and ever-evolving. When I'm in a good place, I can look at my life and think: "What an adventure this is!" - when I'm not, I think: "Holy shit! Why did I do any of this?!? I'm running away."

And I think that's so common as to be universal.

You are totally normal. Get help if you feel that help would make you feel better, absolutely. But know that you are totally normal. That mama who's bragging about feeding her perfectly-behaved unschooled, non-vaxed, uncirced baby a from-scratch organic lunch before they head off in their Prius to pick up their CSA, she just had a fight with her husband. And she hates her hair and wonders if she should have stayed in school and become a novelist.

You are normal. Everybody, in the immortal words of REM, hurts. People shout about having all the answers because nobody has any of the answers, and it's scary to feel alone in that.


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)




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## bebebradford (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
((((hugs))))

about the posts here. I don't post my failures here much. No one really cares about what didn't work. They want to hear about what did. Also i have read posts from people I know in real life and they sounded like super mom. liar liar pants on fire. thats all I gotta say. Also one mans"well behaved, super intellegent kid" may be another mans whining screaming not so bright kid. i take everything I read here with a grain of salt.

getting a part time job saved my life. then I woke up one morning and had no husband (he ran off with another woman) and was all of a sudden no longer a stay at home homeschooling mom. well crap. time to ship off the kids to daycare and school. and yep. it sucks letting go of those ideals but it hasn't hurt the kids either. they are fine. and so am I. and I like my job. and they like school. they like going to grandmas. we are ok. and I am a better mom than I have ever been before. I mean losing my xh helps but also knowing how precious our time together is helps. and adult interaction during the day.

also shutting off the computer helps me be a better mom. Lets face, the more I am on line talking about being super mom the less time I am actually spending with my kids and I get irritated when they won't shut up and let me read. I'll admit it. I have been this mom (they are with their dad right now). Even when I was a stay at home mom the best thing I ever did for parenting or my social life though was to turn off the computer.

You do not have to be the perfect AP poster mom. the perfect mothering mom. it is ok to serve your family food from the grocery store, it is ok to send them to public school this year, it is ok to have a half clean house most of the time. they can watch Tv and wear mismatched socks (I have just embraced this last one...). heck my kid went to school wearing all pink (several different shades) her hair wasn't brushed and her socks did not match and her lunch box contained speghetti os, apple sauce (like the one she had for breakfast) and a pudding cup but ya know what, no one yelled or cried no one rushed. it was a great morning. and she got picked up from school by the soon to be step mommy that my ex ran off with. yeah, shes gonna judge me. don't care. my baby went to school happy today. and rockin' a style thats all hers. embrace mediocore. let the crap slide.

Your son sounds like a bundle of eneergy, Is there anyone who would be willing to help you get a break every now and then? Just until you can get yourself rested enough to deal with his behavior?

Barring any extrordinary behavior issues, it is ok to to use discipline. I know saying no and expecting obedience is not popular here on mothering but it really is ok to have a plan for teaching your child discipline. If you would like to talk more about that send me a PM.

Wonderful post!I could not agree more! You're an inspiration!


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## guestmama-001 (Nov 20, 2006)

I just wanted to thank you all again for taking the time to post. I read each and every word that you all wrote and I truly appreciate your words. I've been doing better the last few days. Stayed off of mdc (except this thread) and haven't been to facebook since Friday. I was on there multiple times a day trying to escape my own life. Yesterday I could feel myself slipping back down into those feelings of despair and I was trying to pinpoint why I was starting to feel that way. I came to the conclusion that I was just really bored with life. So I do realize that I need to come up with something that is going to be exciting and challenging and if that means a job, then so be it. At least looking for a job will be a challenge.

I also watched this series on netflix called "This emotional life", a frontline series. If you ever get the chance to watch this, I highly recommend it. It was so interesting to know the biology behind emotions and that when someone is depressed it is not their fault and that there are truly chnages happening in the brain. The episode I'm on now is about happiness. So interesting.

I also realize that I should exercise and that it will make me feel better, but I just need to figure out how to motivate myself to do it. Also, I was thinking about what you all said about how no one is a perfect mom and how here at mdc everyone is portraying the best of themselves. Which is so funny because here I am, using a different username so as to not reveal that I am not perfect.







So I guess I understand why people do that now! I am one of them.

I have an appt witht the med doc tomorrow and I think she said to up my dose but I can't remember so maybe I will start doing that tomorrow.

Thanks again ladies, you truly are the best!


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## Teenytoona (Jun 13, 2005)

: Glad to see the signs of hope in your post, OP.

Lemme tell ya, there sure is a reason I WOH. Because I suck at the day to day of being a mom. On occasion when DH has to go somewhere for a weekend day, forgetaboutit. If I don't take the kids to my mom's house or someone else's then by the time he gets home, all he gets are grumps and yells and disgruntled kids. Good gaia, I can't tell you when the last day went by that I didn't yell at someone in the house.

But yeah, I put pressure on myself sometimes because of what I read here. The GD forum makes me feel horrible most of the time. Heh. So, I have to take breaks (just like I do from the news or anything that overwhelms me), because I cannot take it all in.

But in broad strokes, our kids' lives are better than DH and mine growing up and we still have things we look fondly back on. With any luck, our grandkids will have better lives yet.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mummoth* 
If you find that you spend a lot of time mentally bullying yourself to do housework or play with the kids, that might be something to try and change. It's amazing how much energy gets burned up doing that. When you think about a task you want to get done or something you 'should' be doing, rather than put yourself into a state of mental anguish, give yourself a YES or NO answer.

Think "Am I going to do this now?" Yes or no. If it's something that actually is essential, ask yourself "Am I going to feel more like doing this later?" or "Is there going to be a more convenient time to get this done?" Yes or no. If the answer is no, the answer is NO. Decision made, put it out of your head and move on. If the answer is yes, then go do it right then.

It's a lot easier to deal with not having gotten something done if you've made a conscious decision to not do it. It sort of declutters your brain... I don't know how else to explain it.

Other than that, I'd just be repeating what everyone else has said... just try and hang on.

Wow. Thank you. This is an amazing bit of wisdom.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Exercise: Do you have the money to join a nice gym? the kind with childcare and a family pool? Back in the day, when I was married and had money







I had one of these and it was glorious. I would go work and leave my kids in the childcare. Each punch covered two hours and i would use every freaking minute of it. It was not the most life enriching two hours of their day but no one died and that was good enough (they played a lot and watched a little TV....) and then we would swim for a couple of hours. not only did I get a lot of exercise, which I needed, so did they and we blew four to five hours of an otherwise mind numbingly borning day. We even had baths covered for the day in a bathroom that I didn't have to clean up! It would have been even better if I could have roped a friend into working out with me. Sometimes we would stop and grab lunch afterwards (lunch from a kitchen I did not have to clean up!). It was a nice break a few times a week and served to get some exercise which I needed.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't have any better advice than others here. I just wanted to say that I understand. When my daughter was 1 and my son was 4, I wanted to give my daughter away. Truly-for adoption or to a family member. When I was completely open to my husband about it he was shocked. I didn't like her at all. I am not sure if I loved her or not. My son, he is so easy going that he just took care of himself. However, I ended up basically ignoring him because I was so unhappy and burnt out. I fantasized about not having kids...One thing that I had that you don't is a job. I could get away and that was very helpful to me. A few things helped me get better:

I avoided parenting and let my husband be a single parent. I literally stayed away from home as much as I could. I tried to never have 2 kids to take care of at a time. I also was treated for hypothyroid. That helped more than I expected. As my daughter got older, I fell in love with her. I wonder if we had been stuck in a self-perpetuating cycle of negativity. I would be rude and grumpy and frankly verbally abusive and how would she respond to that? By being just as unpleasant.

One thing I did is I made a conscious effort to be more respectful of my children. The first step was giving up. If I didn't discipline them at all, I wouldn't end up yelling at them. I "let her win". I picked my battles and the only ones I picked were safety issues. I let her be rude to me, jump on the couch, make messes. I ignored her if she pushed me or yelled at me. I know that is not ideal but somehow, it didn't backfire on me and it has turned out well. I feel like now we have to catch up with teaching her life skills and politeness, etc. but it's happening. She is surprisingly not a tyrant. (She had her father and daycare to model good behaviors and discipline...) I am amazed that we got through that. It was a dark hell. And the turn around has been very slow, in baby steps.

Good Luck


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
Exercise: Do you have the money to join a nice gym? the kind with childcare and a family pool? Back in the day, when I was married and had money







I had one of these and it was glorious. I would go work and leave my kids in the childcare. Each punch covered two hours and i would use every freaking minute of it. It was not the most life enriching two hours of their day but no one died and that was good enough (they played a lot and watched a little TV....) and then we would swim for a couple of hours. not only did I get a lot of exercise, which I needed, so did they and we blew four to five hours of an otherwise mind numbingly borning day. We even had baths covered for the day in a bathroom that I didn't have to clean up! It would have been even better if I could have roped a friend into working out with me. Sometimes we would stop and grab lunch afterwards (lunch from a kitchen I did not have to clean up!). It was a nice break a few times a week and served to get some exercise which I needed.

This is genius! What did you do if you were sick or injured though?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

they also had a cafe







The gymn I went to had a nice track and I coulod walk as slow as I wanted. They also did rehab there so they had resistance machines and stuff where you could work around any injuries or gently work on things that were bothering you. During the times I was there there were people working out who had to drag oxygen tanks around with them. seriously. It was a pretty slow pace







. So I could do something. it probably wasn't the best work out but it was something to get the blood flowing. leisurely pedaling while reading a magazine.....walking slowly and burning more calories singing along to my ipod....there were six different TVs all on a differnt show....and of course there is always swimming. or floating. There were trainers and what not included in our membership who could set up a work out routien that would work for me. As for sick, well if I were too sick to work out and I really needed the break from my kids I would not be opposed to dropping them of fin daycare and laying low around the gym....like I said, they had a nice cafe. and I could have brought a sack lunch and eaten in there. I even did that for the kids on occaision. peanutbutter and jelly is always better somewhere besides your own table and if you know swimming is coming next. I paid seperately for childcare ($1.50 per child for 2 hours. ) so didn't mind using it for whatever. the only rule is you have to be in the building. And there was a lot to do in that building. I could have sat in the meditation room, gotten a massage, took a long hot shower with someone else water bill with no kids interupting me (there were private dressing/shower rooms)......I think the membership was about $80 a month plus childcare. I didn't actually pay for it (We had a business arrangement where we donated some stuff every year and they gave us a free family membership). It also included as many free classes as i or the kids wanted to take. they even had things like tae kwon do, ballet, racquet ball and cheerleading once a month for the kids, seasonal parties, weekly exercise classes for them, free swimming lessons, mom and tot classes. It was an expense but if you used it a lot, totally worth it.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Good to know.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Hey Guestmama - just echoing everyone else with all the love and encouragement. You're going make it...

Liz


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## guestmama-001 (Nov 20, 2006)

Just wanted to give a quick update and then I think I'll be able to be done with this guest username. It's been a month and I am feeling better. I quit taking the meds because I didn't feel they were doing anything. I started taking my supplements again and I am feeling so much better. My dp and I had some serious talks and I left and went to my mom's for a few nights which I think was a real wake up call. He came to a counseling appt with me and that was great. I feel like we are on more the same page now and know that we need to seek counseling together regardless of the cost. I feel like perhaps that was the root of my unhappiness and I didn't know it. I was so unhappy in my relationship but I was trying to ignore it. Because I thought I could never leave, I would never be able to leave. But I finally realized that I would be ok if I had to leave and it would not be the end of the world. So I feel like that gave me the confidence to be totally honest with my partner and it was a good thing.

I also wanted to say that my son's behavior has gotten better and I do believe that's because I am paying more attention to him and trying to be more present with him. I found the love again and our relationship is improving and I feel like I have more patience. I'm now thinking that maybe those meds weren't really helping and perhaps they were making things worse.
Anyhoo, thanks for the help and advice and support.


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## slylives (Mar 4, 2007)

lalemma said:


> You've gotten tons of good advice, but I just want to reiterate: when you see people on the internet talking about their lives, you are, often, seeing a spin job.
> 
> "We're MORE organic/Britax-using/rear-facing/co-sleeping than you. Our baby didn't eat solids until she was three years old! Our teenager is still rear-facing! Our Waldorf child has never even SEEN a TV. Oh, your baby won't stop crying? Probably because you vaccinate/had a traumatic birth/are somehow imperfect."
> 
> ...


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## Bena (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PPK* 
I'm anti-AP label







!!

Yup....I truly think labels can sometimes be hurtful in that they put unnecessary pressure to conform in a certain way
I realised that these "my life is perfect look at me" blogs are just like the models you see in fashion magazine; it's an image of perfection that has been digitally enhanced and manipulated to the point that it is no longer reality, and it's not fair to measure ourselves by them.

It's hard to remember, but it's important!

I'm glad things are better for you! Hang in there!!!


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## dawncayden (Jan 24, 2006)

I'm so happy things are working out


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## mt_gooseberry (Jun 25, 2010)

First of all, I haven't read through all the responses, and I apologize if that is bad etiquette (sp?) or if I have missed something, but I just wanted to answer quick. When you describe how you feel, I remember how, when I was little, my mother was always mad and yelling. One day (as she tells it) I told her she looked like a monster and she realized she needed help. She began taking anti-depressants, and was on them for many years. They were not a miracle cure, but they gave her the edge she needed to cope and begin to enjoy life again. What you describe sounds exactly like she says she felt. It also is almost a textbook description of depression. I think you should continue taking your anti-depressants, because it takes awhile for you to feel the changes they make on your brain chemistry. I should also advise you to continue with therapy, but I felt like I never made progress with a therapist (yes, mental illness runs in my family). Eventually, once you are stable, I encourage you to look into alternative treatments (supplements, etc.)--for some people they can be VERY helpful (more so than with traditional anti-depressants.

As for your son, I am not a doctor or any kind of "expert" to give you "professional" advice. I am, however, a teacher, so I do have experience and training in recognizing potential problems, and I think your son may have some issues to work on as well, some relating to your own problems (not feeling at the top of your game can affect parental guidance) and very possibly physiological issues (ADD?).

Please remember, though, that you have not done anything to feel guilty about. If you haven't been the best parent, well, you have been struggling with a bona fide illness (depression is not psychiatric mumbo jumbo, it is a treatable physiological disorder!) and once you are back on your feet, things will begin to get better for all concerned. Take it from a child who was once in your son's position: things CAN get better!


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

I haven't read everyone's responses yet, just a few of them. Just wanted to give







s


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## frugalmum (Nov 5, 2009)

You need to stop hitting right away-- that could get your kids taken away from you and even have legal consequences for you. If he ends up bruised you could be arrested (and obviously it's not a good thing to do regardless!). So stop hitting, even if it means you stick the kids in front of the TV and lock yourself in the bathroom while you cool off.

Your story sounds a lot like mine (although I did not hit-- I was abused as a child so I have a hands off policy when I'm angry-- I don't have any physical contact with anyone). I wanted to be a perfect mum, a perfect AP parent, nice house filled with homemade stuff, homeschool, no TV, no videogames, super connected and fun parents.... etc. ...

I found I had to let go of the AP dream. I don't really consider myself AP anymore-- I had to do this to keep my sanity. In practice am I AP? More or less-- but I can't identify with the "brand" anymore because it was just too much of a burden. I was constantly judging myself-- not AP enough-- not AP enough-- not AP enough-- I didn't babywear enough today-- my kids didn't eat enough organic produce today-- I used commercial shampoo on my kids-- I am a boring homeschool mom who makes her kids do workbooks--- and so on into infinity. I just couldn't do it anymore!!

I guess you have to take the part of AP that you CAN do and let go of the rest. Not hitting would be a great place to start, and heck, even if that's all you do, you still will have made a vast improvement!

Another thing I would suggest is that your kids MUST help you clean. Obviously the younger one can't yet but the older one can at least pick up toys and help mop the floor, fold towels, etc.. Try to set limits, i.e. he can't use wii unless he fold the towels. Stick to it even if he howls and tantrums. You need them to pitch in!

I'm glad you are doing better and off the AD (those can actually make you feel worse IMO). Hang in there and take it one hour at a time.


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I have this problem, too. I just want to point out that MDC seems like a monolith sometimes. But, the moms posting about their perfect housekeeping routine, and the moms posting about their all-from-scratch-all-organic cooking (the "make my own bread, pasta, dressings, jams, etc. etc. etc. level), and the moms posting about their flawless gentle discipline, and the moms posting about their awesome daily crafts, and the moms posting about their twice daily outings, and the moms posting about hours of activism/advocacy - they're not all the _same moms_.









I just wanted to add too that while AP and GD techniques may work for some moms and some kids, they don't work for all moms and all kids in all circumstances. Sometimes when I read about what AP/GD stuff works for people, I think, "Yeah, but my kids doesn't respond like yours." Or "Yeah, what would you do if YOUR kid did xyz?"

I battle perfectionism also and at the end of the day, had to permit myself to Go To The Other Side Which May Not Be Named On This AP Board to some more mainstream techniques with dd1 'cuz the other stuff was just.not.working. and I was going insane.

I am a medicated mama who is taking TWO types of anti-depressants and let me tell you, it's made a huge difference.

I can relate so much to so much of what you've said.

I wish you healing and health. Be gentle with yourself. Get some good support. I agree with other posters who suggest getting outside help for childcare (AT LEAST SOME OF THE TIME).


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## j_p_i (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guestmama-001* 
I started taking an antidepressant about 2-3 weeks ago and that hasn't helped at all. I've tried supplementation, but I can't stick with it. I've been seeing a counselor for a few months, isn't really helping. I get out and get "me" time, doesn't seem to matter, I'm still really irritated when I get home.









I haven't read all the responses and don't have much time to respond, but I wanted to send my hugs and support to you. I also wanted to urge you to continue on with the antidepressants. Nearly all antidepressants take up to 6 weeks for you to begin feeling the effects of them, and not all antidepressants work for all people. In a month if you feel they aren't working, ask your doc to try something else.

I did just scroll down and read that you stopped taking the meds and were feeling better. I am very glad to hear that you are feeling better, and even if you decide to rule out meds, if never hurts to have someone to talk to! I do hope things continue to look up for you.


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