# DH doesn't agree with 5-pt harness.



## A Mom's Love (Sep 21, 2008)

DH found out that PA state law allows for children who would otherwise be in a booster seat to use a lap belt only if your car has one without the shoulder strap. One of our cars has one lap belt in the back & ever since DH found out about this loophole in the law, he's been dying to take our daughter for a drive in our late-model BMW without her Britax Regent. We've taken her on drives in the car with the Regent before, so it's not an issue of dd never having ridden in the BMW before.

It really made him mad today when he left to take her on an errand with him & he asked me if he could take the BMW without the Regent & I said no! DD is 4. He rebutted that it wasn't against the law. I explained that we should do the safest thing possible. I really had to stand my ground, because he wanted to take her & use a lap belt only. It just makes me really frustrated that he can't understand that it's safer to have dd in a 5-pt. He eventually said he would put her in the Regent only because I was making him. It was an argument to get him to do it, but I wish it wasn't.

Any tips on converting him to the idea that 5-pt is better? I hate arguing with DH.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm sure the techs here can link you to some articles on why a lap belt is unsafe for EVERYONE. The only reason they have a loophole like that is because boosters cannot be used with just lap belts. NOT because it's safe.


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Mom's Love* 
DH found out that PA state law allows for children who would otherwise be in a booster seat to use a lap belt only if your car has one without the shoulder strap. One of our cars has one lap belt in the back & ever since DH found out about this loophole in the law,

Any tips on converting him to the idea that 5-pt is better? I hate arguing with DH.









I'm (obviously) not familiar with the actual law in place, but from what you are saying, I think it IS illegal for your kid to be in a lap belt only.

If I'm understanding correctly, you have two lap-shoulder belts (or 3 point or whatever you wanna call 'em), and one lap-only belt in he middle, right?
In that case, I think you would be required to use at least a booster, unless you had three kids booster-aged so that one had to ride in that middle spot.

Not sure how to convince him on the harness over a booster, but maybe just that fact that you have a Regent and no booster (assuming that's the case?), and she has to be in a carseat of some type.....


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## A Mom's Love (Sep 21, 2008)

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/v...A=310&Q=165399

The law is found here & the part I was referring to is (sorry I wasn't that clear-I was upset):

Quote:

A child over 4 but less than 8 years of age, in a vehicle which was not originally equipped with a shoulder belt, shall be fastened in the seat belt with out the use of a booster seat or may be fastened in a child passenger restraint system (child safety seat) appropriate for their height an weight in accordance with the recommendations of the manufacturer.
So she can ride with the lap belt only legally.

And yes, in the back of the car we have two lap-shoulder belts and one lap-only belt in the middle.

We don't have a booster, only the Regent.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

I read that to mean that the child can be out of a booster ONLY if the car has NO shoulder belts. Because if there is not shoulder belt available, you can't use a booster with a lap belt. But there are shoulder belts available in your car, so she would not be permitted to use just the lap belt.

In any case, I'm sure the techs will provide you with info on why 5 point is so much safer.


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## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

That's how I read it too. It says that if you have NO shoulder belts, then the lap belt is ok. That said, lap belts are bad for everyone, which is why they are no longer made.

Why not just get her a booster for the occasional ride in his car maybe? We do that in DH's car, however the speed limit where we live is low (15mph on military base)...but we have one with SIP and such, so she is safer than a lap belt for sure.


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## heythere heather (Apr 11, 2003)

Yeah, I'm in agreement--if there are NO shoulder belts, the child can sit with just the lap belt, because you can't use a booster with just a lap belt.

But if there's a shoulder belt in the back, this does not apply.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

"A child over 4 but less than 8 years of age, in a vehicle which was not originally equipped with a shoulder belt,"

The vehicle IS equipped with an available shoulder belt.
The center seat is not, but the vehicle itself is.


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## A Mom's Love (Sep 21, 2008)

It's unanimous! Thanks for helping me to see that we interpreted this incorrectly. I appreciate it, everyone!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Have him read this:
http://www.thecarseatlady.com/booste..._seats_11.html
Or this
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in641351.shtml


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Also tell him that racecar drivers wear 5-pt harnesses!


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A Mom's Love* 
http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/v...A=310&Q=165399

The law is found here & the part I was referring to is (sorry I wasn't that clear-I was upset):

So she can ride with the lap belt only legally.

And yes, in the back of the car we have two lap-shoulder belts and one lap-only belt in the middle.

We don't have a booster, only the Regent.

i read the law, and my legal interpretation is that you can NOT place a child in the lap belt IF the car has shoulder belts. period. it doesnt matter that in ONE seat there is no shoulder belt. a late model car of any model will have shoulder belts.

i cant even imagine a 4 yo in a seat belt only. i understand your reluctance to arguing with your dh but perhaps if he would post on car-seat.org and ask his questions there re: what he wants to do, others can convince him (that arent emotionally invested). or maybe watching youtube videos.

im assuming he loves and cares for his dd...he just needs to understand that she deserves to be protected as much as possible. its not going to be LESS fun for her to ride in the car w/ teh car seat.







:


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## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

maybe he'd like to see the photo of our car that got totaled in a car crash 4 years ago with DD also age 4 ... she was perfectly ok, but she was in a 5 point harness at the time ...


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

http://depts.washington.edu/booster/...54_6yr_lap.mpg

This is a 6yo dummy in a lap belt only, ask him if he'd really want that to happen to his dd.


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
http://depts.washington.edu/booster/...54_6yr_lap.mpg

This is a 6yo dummy in a lap belt only, ask him if he'd really want that to happen to his dd.

have to say that this was a great reminder/eye opener video! OT: i'd love to see others such as booster & convertible car seats ff & rf...where do i go to see them?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I'll post what I have, lol, well, I'll see what I can do as I have lots.







A lot of crash tests are available on you tube if you do a search for them. I really do have too many to list. Is there anything specific you want, no seatbelt, holding baby, side impacts?

RFing vs ffing
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/TetherBraceCrash.aspx

Booster vs harness





Here's some infant seat ones from NHTSA.
http://nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/m...4a4c4446108a0c

Restrained vs unrestrained adults


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Here's another good one for your dh:


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## treehugginhippie (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
I'll post what I have, lol, well, I'll see what I can do as I have lots.







A lot of crash tests are available on you tube if you do a search for them. I really do have too many to list. Is there anything specific you want, no seatbelt, holding baby, side impacts?

RFing vs ffing
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/TetherBraceCrash.aspx

Booster vs harness





Here's some infant seat ones from NHTSA.
http://nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/m...4a4c4446108a0c

Restrained vs unrestrained adults





i'll check those out, thanks!!!


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