# Children who never have tantrums...



## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

So I was visiting my in-laws and my MIL swears up and down that as a child my husband NEVER had ONE tantrum- ever- and her other daughter only had ONE, ever. She expressed dismay over my 16 mo who is all of a sudden throwing fits every time his plans are crossed. I myself am pretty short fused over his constant whining and defiance, but thinking it was a stage I had to help him through was easier than thinking I don't "handle" my children and am "inconsistent" as she perceives (I can only imagine I'm inconsistent in that I've become so used to his shrieking that sometimes I don't put him in time out when he does it). I asked her for her opinion, so she wasn't just knit-picking me, and let me tell you my husband is strong-willed and stubborn so it wasn't just that he was an easy baby. She also says she never spanked. So I'm just wondering- any other moms out there who have kids that never throw a tantrum?

I'm concerned its just my mothering, and now my husband is so tired of hearing my son whine and scream he is starting to use corporal punishment, and I really want to avoid this.... only way I can is by changing the behaviour so there is no need to spank. I also feel like maybe my son needs to be weaned... maybe it contributes to his internal struggles to be an individual "I" and break free of his identity being in me. Any thoughts?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Regardless of the behaviour there is no need to spank. Children go through a natural stage of tantrums. They learn better if 1) mom and dad aren't prone to tantrums and 2) the tantrums result don't result in getting what they want.

For your dh using spanking, I would sit him down and explain that under no circumstances will you allow him to hit your child. Ever!


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Hey, mama. I am going through something similar with my 16 month daughter. Apparently 16 mos is really rough!

My patience has been tested lately with the constant whining and limit-testing, etc. It can be really hard sometimes.

Please read through THIS THREAD. A lot of parents stepped in and gave me great advice and brought be "down" from where I was. Maybe that thread will help you/your husband.

(In that thread, several people also say how the older generation has a "fogged memory" of how kids were back in the day. Your MIL says her kids didn't have any tantrums? I don't buy it. My mom/gramma said I was the perfect child too and I didn't act like my daughter. I think the theory of the older generation having a fogged memory must be right).

ETA. I'm no expert, but I would think now is NOT the time to wean your son. Let him wean when he is ready. My daughter still takes bottle (nursing failed). Sometimes, there is nothing more soothing than cuddling with mama and comforting nipple.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Well, I think I've gotten over my tantrum stage =)

His big brother who is 3 has them once in a great while though. Esp when woken from a nap after driving.

As for the spanking thing, dh knows how I feel... and it is *his* child too, I know he is doing what he thinks best and I really don't feel that the issue of corporal punishment is a reason to introduce stress to our marriage. For me, marital unity is my highest priority. The fact that we can agree to disgree and respect each other's attempts to parent by our conscience is key to family harmony. I was spanked as a child and I can tell you it was far more devastating to have my parents fighting or acting cold to each other than to get a whipping.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

I'm convinced it's selective memory. My MIL said that once..and she had 5 boys. Two of them STILL throw tantrums at 26 and 41 years of age.


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Yeah I also think it's selective memory.

I was just talking the other day to a good friend of dh's parents (her dd and I are very close friends, and she and I are friends also). Anyway, we were talking about dh's fits (at 39







: ) and she was saying how he was always like that as a little boy. I told her that MIL & FIL don't remember (they have seen dh "act up" recently and swear he was never like that, not in a nasty way, more like they are surprised and dismayed at his behavior). Anyway she said it's selectvie memory b/c she remembers dh was *always* like that as a kid. I think he's ADHD or something.

Anyway I'm totally off topic, but I just wanted to say if you knew MILs friends they would probably remember your dh's tantrums, even if your MIL doesn't.


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## Irishmamaof3 (Oct 21, 2008)

My 3yr old has never thrown a tantrum







I reckon she's saving them all up for when she hits her teens.

I also think it has less to do with parenting and more to do with the childs personality as we have 2 other children who could have won medals for tantrum throwing if it was an Olympic sport!


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

My son, now almost six, has thrown one or two tantrums in his life. That's it. Seriously. And I'm not so old that I've already forgotten!









However, he has thrown that one or two. And he can be a champion whiner. Also, I got off "easily" with the terrible twos and threes, but he was Mr. Velcro Baby, and went through a really really irritating patch when he was four.

So, though tantrums are tough, I think that, as a parent, you're going to get it at one stage or another, in one way or another.

I would like to congratulate my excellent parenting for my DS' almost tantrumless life, but I fear it's his personality. I know a few friends who are far better moms than I think I am (not that I think I"m not a good mom, but still . . . ) whose kids have lots of tantrums.

OP. . .. give yourself a break, don't believe the selective memories of your family (!), and know that this stage will pass.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

No, my 4 year old has never ever had a tantrum. That is not a lie. He will whine a little bit, but no tantrums here, not even when he was under 2. So this is possible, but I think rare.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I think some depends on your definition of a tantrum. My son is 3 and has so far only thrown one classic tantrum with kicking and yelling. However he does drop to the ground and refuse to move, or cry.

Anyways, I would not worry too much about other people in the past or present - your child is who he or she is. It sounds like he is a sensitive little guy who expresses his emotions freely. Of course your job is to help him work through that, but I don't think you need to see it as an indicator that he will be throwing tantrums for life. Tantrums are quite normal at this age. If he were 7 my answer might be different.

I would suggest that if your husband is hitting him and you are not, that is pretty inconsistent. I'd suggest neither of you hitting him at all, of course. Also, I've never, ever heard that weaning helps diminish tantrums - if that were the case bottle-fed kids would never have them.

You said later on that marital harmony is your top priority... I just wanted to share for you that that was my father's top priority too and as a result my sister and I suffered various forms of abuse from my mother, and the fact that no one stood up for us has caused each of us issues to today. Just a thought.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks everyone- I appreciate your replies and am taking them all in!

Maybe it was selective- and if not, she admitted herself they had different problems.

And while marital harmony is my priority, I won't tolerate crossing a line between discipline and bullying/abuse...

As for weaning- I just wonder sometimes if it goes beyond bonding to "binding"- and if it is inconsistent to nurse on demand at 16 mos when I work 2 days a week and have a nanny and he can't nurse at all those 2 days- might make him very frustrated and maybe this is his way of showing it? Maybe if I just stuck with morning and evening nursings he would have better continuity.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

i think personality has a lot to do with it.

my DS threw monumental tantrums. they went on and on and no one could help him or even be near him. it just made it worse. he would lose his voice from screaming. he grew out of them eventually.

DD doesn't tantrum. sometimes when she is really tired she will get frustrated and i think "oh here it comes" and then it's over and she's done.

why does your DH feel the need to control DS' expression of frustration? this is how 16 month olds express themselves. unless he's being destructive, why should he need to be in charge of that? esp with spanking for goodness sake. i know there are parents who feel they need to control their DC's every behavior, but really how can one control how another expresses their feelings? that can't be healthy, right?

maybe have him read althea solter's essay on tantrums? http://www.awareparenting.com/tantrums.htm

(PS, my MIL says DH never had them either... maybe it's because she spanked him when he was melting down? )


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## vegmom (Jul 23, 2003)

At 16mo your ds is still very young and is not able to communicate and express what he feels with the right words. Throwing tantrums is his way of expressing his emotions. This stage will pass.

My dd1 who is 6 still throws huge crying fits every few months - she has always been like that. Her sister does not do this - but she does whine.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Well my mother claims I never did but I have very clear memories of a few LOL... but it was true I was very mellow calm overall part was I was shy very introverted and my "tantrums" overall were silient the arms folded hide in my room type ones easy for most any adult to ingnore. I was also sick requiring multiple heart and kidney surgeries over the course of my childhood. This alone just made me super tired and too week to bother with the big glorified tantrums.
DD has had a few tantrums more we can easily link to her SIDs or just super tired times shes not big at them its just kinda how she is. Punishment has very little to do with it.

Deanna


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## Stella_luna (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm positive it has a lot to do with the child's temperament. My DD has never had a tantrum either. When she gets mad, she tends to whine or sulk. I have a friend whose 7-year-old DD never had a tantrum either (she is very similar temperamentally to my DD). But her 4-year-old has several awful ones a day, and always has. So I really doubt it has much to do with parenting.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I also feel like maybe my son needs to be weaned... maybe it contributes to his internal struggles to be an individual "I" and break free of his identity being in me. Any thoughts?
Wanted to address this. Your DS is 16 months he is in every respect still a baby... Also countinuing on a healthy breastfeeding relationship with increase his ability to become an indivudal not take it away. Extended breastfeeding not only will offer him many nutrutional benifits but many psycological benifits as well.
FWIW from a personal BTDT POV my DD nursed for 4 years and shes frightenly independent.... often a little too much LOL

Deanna


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
As for weaning- I just wonder sometimes if it goes beyond bonding to "binding"- and if it is inconsistent to nurse on demand at 16 mos when I work 2 days a week and have a nanny and he can't nurse at all those 2 days- might make him very frustrated and maybe this is his way of showing it? Maybe if I just stuck with morning and evening nursings he would have better continuity.

momma:

Please take this with all the love that it's meant. I have been down the road you're on, and I'm hoping to help you see your way off it.

I think what you need to do is stop focusing on HIS behavior and start focusing on your relationship with him. If you want to be authoritarian in his life, and decide for him when he gets mommy love and when he doesn't, well, there are lots of other parenting boards where you can get advice on how to accomplish that.

If, on the other hand, you want to go the gentle discipline, connection way then you need to hear what everyone here is telling you.

A child doesn't get confused about nursing on demand. They associate it with mom, not with a time of day. So giving him that comfort whenever he wants it and you're with him is not "spoiling" nor is it "giving him bad habits." It's simply meeting his need for connection with you.

And as for tantrums, they are normal for his age. Anyone who tries to make you think there's something wrong with tantruming at his age is either not remembering right, or is coming from a place of disconnecting with children rather than connecting.

16 months is a hard age. There are so many things he wants to do and say, and he can't yet! It's so frustrating! The good news is, this period only lasts a few months until he can communicate better.

And I know you didn't ask about this--and take this from someone who has spanked. If your husband is using spanking as discipline, he is hitting your child. There is no sugar coating that. You say you were spanked and you're fine. I say this as respectfully as possible--but what you learned from being spanked is that it's OK for someone to show power over your child by hurting them. You've learned that it's OK for big people to control little people through intimidation and fear. You've also learned not to stand up for your child when they are being hurt. I learned the same lesson, and it's taken all the guts I can muster to stand up to my parents and my in-laws when they've tried to spank my children.

It is not OK for your husband to hit your 16 month old! He's only a baby! It's not OK for him to hit your child at any age. And while I'm with you on not starting gratuitous fights with your husband, my child's well-being is definitely a line I've drawn. Once I was able to find my way away from spanking, I swore nobody would ever hit my kids again. Luckily, DH was on board. But we've had to stand up to our parents and, man! that has not been easy.

So rather than nagging or fighting with your DH, could you try helping him learn more? People who spank generally haven't thought things through very well. Could you read discipline books with him? Help him see that he's starting down a road of disconnection with his son? Show him somehow that what is at stake is his very relationship with the teenager your DS will become?

I hope you can hear what I'm saying--your relationship with your husband is important. But it's a relationship of adults where neither is helplessly dependent on the other. Your son is helplessly dependent on you and you husband. He is not able to walk away if he doesn't like how he's being treated. Spanking teaches him that he is not worthy of respect. Is that really what you want your DH to teach him?


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## mama_ani (Aug 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
So I'm just wondering- any other moms out there who have kids that never throw a tantrum?

I had one. One of five. Well, potentially two of five since the youngest is only 6 months old.
My second oldest threw her first tantrum at 10 years of age. Seriously. I'm pretty sure that was her only one unless she threw one somewhere out of our house. She has always been laid back and mellow and "hey, whatever man" hippie chick.

Quote:

Regardless of the behaviour there is no need to spank. Children go through a natural stage of tantrums. They learn better if 1) mom and dad aren't prone to tantrums and 2) the tantrums result don't result in getting what they want.

For your dh using spanking, I would sit him down and explain that under no circumstances will you allow him to hit your child. Ever!








:


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Neither of mine ever threw tantrums. My youngest would cry sometimes in sadness like if we had to leave and she was say petting a puppy she'd sadly and quietly cry for a minute or two.

I never experienced a child throwing themselves backwards onto the floor and losing it though.

And I can assure you, though this is really neat and I'm lucky, that this trait in my children is not because of my parenting. They were born that way.

So I say you cannot take the blame on this one. You have a wild mustang, I got ragdoll cats.







It's imo DNA based not parenting based.

It all works out in the end, look at us grownups so much diversity of personality it's a good thing.

Don't feel like you're a bad parent because your child has tantrums- which by the way are normal. I got the freak kids.

(FWIW, my mother claimed I was the happy child birth-5 who never cried, while my siblings were knock down drag out tantrum throwers. As an adult I'm now known as the emotional/dramatic one. It all evens out in the end.)


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

My dd didn't have any until she was over two and they came suddenly and strongly for a while at three. I think that parenting doesn't really have a lot to do with it. You can decrease frequency by paying attention to triggers and minimizing them but they still happen to everyone. My mother actually used to say me and my brother never had them but actually I remember being older and having a ton of them. I was an incredibly angry child and it scared me a lot because I couldn't control it but that wasn't until I was older and didn't care as much about her reaction anymore.

The spanking may be confusing him even more and causing him a lot of internal stress that can only come out as a tantrum at this point because he can't talk yet. He is a baby still and it will be a long time before he actually is able to communicate his needs, worries, illnesses, pain from growing and teething, hunger, sleepiness, etc... in words. If you dh is spanking an baby because he is acting like a normal baby and having a hard time controlling his emotions as well as dh does then he may be doing it for other things which may be causing a lot of confusion. I suggest taking this issue up with your dh and asking him how he plans to model controlling his anger and using his words from now on rather than reacting with a violent adult sized temper tantrum.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

I think what you need to do is stop focusing on HIS behavior and start focusing on your relationship with him. If you want to be authoritarian in his life, and decide for him when he gets mommy love and when he doesn't, well, there are lots of other parenting boards where you can get advice on how to accomplish that.

If, on the other hand, you want to go the gentle discipline, connection way then you need to hear what everyone here is telling you.

A child doesn't get confused about nursing on demand. They associate it with mom, not with a time of day. So giving him that comfort whenever he wants it and you're with him is not "spoiling" nor is it "giving him bad habits." It's simply meeting his need for connection with you.
Perhaps you are reading some of your own struggles into mine when they aren't really there. I am really not interested in being authoritarian or controlling my children- though I do believe they need their parent to be "in control" of the situation for their own sense of security- meaning I don't get hysterical and I help them deal with problems that come up.

I don't believe I'm "spoiling" or "giving bad habits" by breastfeeding him on demand. I am just questioning whether or not it is keeping him dependent on me by habit, rather than actual need; not just need for nourishment but also comfort; he seems to be outgrowing a lot of need for me to provide everything for him as he is taking charge of his own body and becoming aware of his own abilities, and I want to see him starting to move towards being able to learn how to settle himself as well (with help of course- a gradual thing). I feel like nursing has become a struggle for him in his growth toward individual identity because whereas before it was peaceful and happy, now he seems more like he is grappling with me- grabbing, scratching, and not just wiggly but frustrated. He doesn't seem to be comforted by it, he seems to be fighting with my boobs. Being philosophical by nature I can't help but take it as some sort of sign he is sending me.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

I've thought about some of your responses some more and I think I will bring up some of the points you mentioned with dh. I realized that my hesitation to bring it up with him has less to do with us fighting and more to do with my pessimism that he will not be open to new ideas. In effect I was judging him as closed.

Dh was never spanked- he was screamed at- and so to him "communicating" has worse connotations than corporal punishment. I think he feels spanking is better because he is actually "doing" something and he is a very energetic hands on person. So, I need to find some ways to illustrate hands on, non-violent ACTIONS to take with the kiddos.

Thanks for the inspiration!


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## dulce de leche (Mar 13, 2005)

You mentioned that your dh needs actions. My kids also often need a physical outlet when they are frustrated. We have them do an angry dance/sad dance/happy dance or whatever. Another thing that helps is "the pushing game". I sit on the floor and they hold my hands and try to push me until I slide backwards. It isn't a violent thing, and they aren't trying to hurt anyone, but it is wonderful for using their bodies and releasing tension. Also, sometimes it helps to pretend to be animals. If a lion were that angry, how loudly would she roar? If an elephant were that frustrated, how would he stomp? etc. I realize that your ds is a little young for some of these, but maybe if your dh could guide your ds into some of these they would both feel better.


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## unlegal (Feb 18, 2005)

Don't forget, 16 months is still a baby. I remember getting frustrated with my first child, and now with my second, it's much easier to see that he's still a baby, even at 18 months. He's learning about his world, and is expressing himself in new ways. It's hard being such a new little person!

My first had (still has!) many tantrums, my second doesn't really have them (just whines from time to time). All children are different







Some kids are really laid back and some are not. It's not a reflection of you as a parent.

Good luck!


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
Perhaps you are reading some of your own struggles into mine when they aren't really there. I am really not interested in being authoritarian or controlling my children- though I do believe they need their parent to be "in control" of the situation for their own sense of security- meaning I don't get hysterical and I help them deal with problems that come up.

That's entirely possible.







I have had a big struggle with controlling and being authoritarian, because that's what I was raised with. I cringe when I perceive people using their power over children instead of gentle but firm boundary setting. It sounds like you strive for the latter, so sorry for overreaching.


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## ABmom (Mar 6, 2008)

I can honestly say that dd never had a full blown tantrum where she kicks and screams on the floor. She would cry loudly but would stop after a few minutes when she realized that she will not get what she wants. I think that it has a lot to do with personality as ds is in this stage where he will fall onto the floor and cry. He doesn't do this often (maybe once or twice a week) but I try to prevent it from becoming more in frequency by not fighting with him. So when he is in the beginning stages of having one, I simply sit by him and wait. Sometimes I would use soothing words to calm him down but most often I would just touch him. I know that this works with him because the crying spree is becoming shorter and shorter. Sometimes he would stop as soon as his head touches the floor.

HTH


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## Mel*APMomma (Oct 23, 2008)

Tantrums are normal at that age. That's about the time my son's tantrums got the worst and he still throws them every once in a while. Not as much now as he did back then because he is better with communicating verbally.
That is what your son is doing when he throws a tantrum. He has no other way of telling you "I'm mad!!" Spanking him is not going to do anything beneficial for him. The only thing it does is lets your dh blow off steam in which I suggest buying him a punching bag or having him go for a run or walk when he gets irritated with the tantrums. He's an adult and has a lot more self control then your son does. When your husband is mad and doesn't get his way (by your son stopping his tantrum) then he spanks him. It really makes no sense when you look at it that way. In order to teach your son how to deal with his anger, he needs the adults in his life to set an example.
BTW at 16 months old he is still a baby!
When Ethan throws a tantrum, I get down to his level and talk to him. I tell him "I know you're upset because you can't have (insert blank) why don't we play with (a safe toy) instead." If he's still throwing a tantrum then I give him time to cool off.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
I've thought about some of your responses some more and I think I will bring up some of the points you mentioned with dh. I realized that my hesitation to bring it up with him has less to do with us fighting and more to do with my pessimism that he will not be open to new ideas. In effect I was judging him as closed.

Dh was never spanked- he was screamed at- and so to him "communicating" has worse connotations than corporal punishment. I think he feels spanking is better because he is actually "doing" something and he is a very energetic hands on person. So, I need to find some ways to illustrate hands on, non-violent ACTIONS to take with the kiddos.

Thanks for the inspiration!

the best thing you can "do" with a frustrated and upset child is offer yourself and your full presence. you can validate how the child feels. "you are very angry/frustrated/upset right now." by making yourself available and demonstrating that you are there for him/her you are showing the child that you accept his/her strong emotions and it's okay to feel like that.

even when my son was screaming full blown, rolling around the floor and kicking things, i was not far away. i was always close enough for him to see.. because being nearer or speaking to him just made it worse, i stayed away, but was not gone. he always knew i was there.

one of the things i thought about after i posted the first time was that men often have a very hard time seeing their sons cry and express strong emotions. usually because it's something that is generally frowned upon by the culture for males in general. one of the best things your DH can "do" is practice accepting your DS' strong feelings and tears.

also, one of the things you might want to discuss with your DH is that your DS is overwhelmed and out of control when he is tantruming. imagine for a moment that you are feeling the same way, and then the person you most love and trust in the world strikes you and physically hurts you. what must that be like for your baby? needing understanding and comforting and instead being hit. perhaps if you help him with putting himself in your DS' shoes, this will help him stop hitting.

would your DH read that short article by althea solter i posted the link for?


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Yes, I'm going to print that article out.

We had a great discussion last night where we at least got to the point of making a distinction between tantrums and other forms of behaviour- tantrums being emotional issues that do not merit physical punishment. He still thinks it would be appropriate for destructive acts (against people & property, or to put a "healthy" fear in a child about something dangerous).


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Just wanted to put in .02 cents about nursing. I think that 16 months is old enough to have a set schedule for nursing, and I do think it can help to cut down on tantrums. I was way more relaxed about nursing an infant than a toddler.... it helped my life to have structure around nursing times with my toddlers. And I think it helped the kids to know that we would nurse at wake up time, naptime, and bedtime -- those nursing sessions increased in quality and intimacy as a result. If your instinct is telling you that your toddler needs a set nursing schedule, then I would trust that instinct. (I would probably do 3x a day instead of 2x though, to ensure that your milk supply stays high so that you can change back if it doesn't help or if it makes things worse.)

I would NOT wean though. For a lot of reasons. I think it will make him more insecure and anxious, and I think that weaning at this time of the year will compromise his immune system. You will be surprised at how much more easily they catch every little bug when they don't nurse anymore, and whining takes on a whole new meaning when you have a chronically sick toddler under foot.

That's great that your DH was open to dialoge about spanking! I was worried when I was reading the beginning of the thread, because I'd hate to think that just opening the topic for _disscussion_ would introduce a threatening level of stress. A healthy marriage should be resilient enough to entertain differences of opinion and the abilty to collaborate and problem solve, you know? Which it sounds like yours can handle.


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## vintageplumm (Oct 8, 2008)

Im new here but I wanted to also throw my 2 cents in ...

My oldest daughter now 9 never threw a fit...not one..seriously! SHe was a very early bloomer and I had the ability to talk to her at a very early age. She was and still is nice and flexible to my wishes as long as I explain to her why were doing what were doing and such.
My other daughter who is now 6 was born throwing tantrums I swear. If you gave her the wrong color sippy cup she would freak, I put her down she lost it, she was the reason I took up baby wearing and GD. A desperate attempt to rein in the chaos. I was a single WAHM at the time I just flat could not function and provide for my children effectively with this behaviour...I cried myself to sleep for almost a year.
I honestly really never broke her from it...she Thanks God outgrew it eventually. But before her outgrowing it when it was crunch time and I would explain to her the best I could why she needed to comply yadda yadda and still continued to with her tantrum....I always gve her a hug told her I loved her very much and said when your thru I would love for you to re-join us and walked away. this was honestly the most effective was to diffuse I ever came across. It didnt always get her to calm down but it was a lot more effective than when I would loose my temper. When of course the situation would not allow for it such as a store or we half to get in the car or we half to go home and such. I for the most part did not engage the behavior and went about my busnuiess frequently with her under my arm kicking and screaming the whole way.
I really found that a refusal to engage was the best and then of course engaging the proper behaviour sometimes even over engaging just to reassure her yes this is the best way to get my attention.
I dunno why I felt the urge to chime in like this...I just was reading this and thought you know I really thought I had done somethign wrong or Iwas a horrible mother when my daughter starting throwing these fits...I took a lot of heat for not swatting her bum and such..but I honestly think had I perpetuated the siutation with spanking and yelling it woudl have gone on a lot longer. To this day she still does nto respond well at all to anger or agression.....but really who does?


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

My now 20 year old middle son never had a tantrum, neither as a toddler or a teenager. His older sister and younger (2 3/4 year old) brother have had lots. I didn't do anything different with my middle baby - it's personality!









As for handling tantrums, in my experience it works best to be available and understanding - ignoring an upset child works as a punishment and leads to them getting even more upset, in my experience. Tantrums isn't something the child can help going through, after all, they're in a learning process which takes time.

Spanking is of course completely off!


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## H & J's Mom (Jun 1, 2008)

Each LO is born with their tempermant and personality.

My DD has never had a tantrum (I'm picturing a child on the floor kicking and screaming). She's 10.5 now and has always been very laid back and easygoing.

DS (2yo) has also never had a tantrum but he does get upset a lot easier than DD ever did, especially when he's tired. When he's upset he puts his head down and cries and if he's angry he just cries louder. I find what works best with him is asking if he's upset and if I can do anything (give him a hug, get him a drink, etc). If he's not too far gone just talking to him seems to distract him. When he's really upset I try to not make a big deal out of it, just stay close and see what he needs and when he's calmed down enough he usually wants the hug









Maybe make sure your LO is safe and can't hurt himself or others and let him have his tantrums ... your DH could just tell him he'll be in the next room until he's done with the tantrum.

Sometimes I think they just have to get it out. I can't image spanking would help the situation at all









ETA - Knock wood ... don't want to wake up to tantrums x2 tomorrow









I'm pretty sure DD is saving up to put us through the ringer in her teen years ....


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## MichelleAnnette (Aug 20, 2006)

The book Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves really helped me develop the mindset I want to have as a parent. My 16 month old is definitely still a baby and gets more than half his calories from breastmilk. I could not imagine weaning him, but you know your situation best. My goal is never force him to do anything. Of course that can't happen all the time, I can't let him run in the street, but having that as my goal is helpful. There is no battle of the wills between us.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I have a 16 month old DS! He can be a fireball...and was from birth!

Because I'm pg, he's being weaning himself, with a touch of encouragement from me. And it has made him a much nicer fella to be around. He would DEMAND to nurse, but when I would let him (which I always did), he would be awful...wiggly, biting, digging into me with his hands, etc. It was obviously a frustration for him, and really was for me, too. Now that he will accept other forms of comfort from me, he doesn't scream and yell and thrash when I try to do things for him/with him. He's just sweet and cuddly. Every now and then he asks to nurse, and when he seems "off", I ask him (to which he's been saying "doedeedoo"...his version of "no thank you"). So, I have to be the voice of dissent and say that weaning HAS helped us, lots.

Also, teaching him words, and talking about what he wants has helped a lot. Today we were swinging at the park and he was watching some backhoes that were working in front of us. (He LOVES backhoes). It was time to go...we had made plans with a friend and were already a bit late. He flipped out. Screaming "twing twing, baddoe, baddoe" and reaching for the park, and was trying to slide out of his carseat. I leaned down so I was just a few inches from his face and said, "You want to swing. You want to watch the backhoes." I said it twice, slowly and clearly. By the time I started the second time, he was listening and not crying. By the end of the second sentence he was nodding. I said, "Mama will put you in your seat and we will take the truck to see the backhoes. We'll see more backhoes." He was okay with that. So, I drove by them and parked for a few minutes. He watched, content and enthralled (with being closer to them, even). After a few minutes, we waved "bye-bye" to the backhoes and went on to meet our friends. That sort of thing works a lot for us. He is just still "tantruming" because he thinks I don't understand what he's trying to say, once he knows I "get it", he's willing to work with me usually.

Sometimes though, he just gets into a mood and starts throwing fits for no apparent reason. Seriously, sorta out of nowhere he just gets mad or something and just throws himself down, making huffing angry sounds. When he's acting like that, or when there's not been a clear trigger of a situation he needs help through, I walk away. I used to try to comfort him and stay with him, and figure out his needs, but it just makes him madder. If I walk away and leave him, he's fine, almost immediately. I'm not a fan of CIO, not even "in-arms" much, but this little guy wants left alone when he feels out of sorts. He doesn't want me or anyone else. If I just leave him be, he collects himself and comes to join the fun. It's very plain he doesn't feel neglected or is just "giving up". At bedtime, he won't be "parented to sleep." We've spent many hours trying over many sleepless nights. So, I put him to bed...he SCREAMS sometimes, but only for about 15 seconds. As soon as I pull the door to, he stops and I hear him babbling and cooing...and then he goes right to sleep. It's almost like he feels obligated to protest or something. (He doesn't yell much now, btw.) But, I HATED it. I hated that he wouldn't take comfort from me. I hated that I couldn't just hold and nurse my baby. But my parenting method isn't GD, or AP, or whatever...it's what I need to do to fit who my children are. When I redefined myself that way, I was able to let go of my preconceived notions of what EVERY child NEEDS, and see that MY ds needs some space.

Anyway, it's working for now, if something changes, I will, too. The point is to work WITH our children and NOT against them. NOT to stick to some set of parenting "RULES", IMO.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Maybe I do need to restructure our nursing times. Actually my biggest worry about weaning him is nutritional; I think we are close enough that he could handle the emotional aspects but I think he might depend on my milk more than, say, a traditional practitioner would expect, calorie-wise. And having gotten him through whooping cough and scarlet fever with no meds/antibiotics thanks to nursing, I do consider our nursing relationship to be a big immune system booster. I think I will at least night wean and then see if things improve with morning, nap & bedtime sessions.

This whole discussion has really brought up some things that were hard to deal with with dh. I do see that a big part of why he has such a problem with tantrums is because he is pushing a lot of his own negative emotions down and can't handle people who don't control their emotions too. And, unfortunately, a lot of his negative emotions are because of me. I think he feels very pressured to provide for our material needs and is working so much to keep up with things that he feels I want/need, that he has lost his center and is actually spiralling downwards. Because he is pushing himself so hard and not dealing with his own feelings, nor working out with me what he is able to provide for us and still remain healthy and balanced, his ability to deal with the kids' tantrums is extremely depleted. I really don't want any material things at the expense of his wellbeing and I see I need to help us drastically reduce our spending.

Maybe this is way off the topic. But I'm glad you all have helped me understand the why's of it. It puts more pressure on me to shield him from the kids tantrums while he has no patience for it... but also helps me avoid putting him into deeper frustration. If he can come to a place of balance maybe his ability to use gd will improve.

It's so hard to come to that place where we accept ourselves as mothers when our children's behaviour is upsetting! I'm still not at the place where I can handle them tantruming in public and I guess that's a reflection of my own insecurity- but right now dh is grocery shopping and I am not bringing ds out of the house! Luckily we have a huge yard so we don't feel closed in.


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

I have to admit that I'm saddened and a little stunned by your "hands-on" husband. I wonder what your MIL thinks of your husband's approach to discipline. Seems like he's the one she should be talking to.

I don't usually post comments like this--I'm often someone who seeks advice and not one to criticize--but I find your post made me angry, too. It'll take me a while to shed the image of a 16 month old being hit by his father as a matter of course and his mother standing by.


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

MU, you seem to be taking an awful lot of responsibility for your DH and how he reacts to things. it's not your job to handle things for him so that he can deal. he's an adult and can (and should) take care of himself, and manage his own emotional responses.

the person you need to be taking responsibility for is your DS. he is the one who needs protecting. 16 months seems so terribly young to be thinking of weaning...

instead of trying so hard to understand and provide for your DH's needs, maybe you need to be pushing yourself a bit to understand and provide a bit more for your DS. i am not saying you shouldn't be caring of your DH, but you did say that he was striking your 16 month old and in my book that's pretty much abuse. you are talking about him *hitting* a *baby* who is *crying.* that's pretty serious stuff.

your DH really needs to get *himself* together and that's never going to happen when you are the one taking responsibility for him and his immaturity. i'm not saying you shouldn't try to understand what happening here, but i do see you intellectualizing DH's behavior and talking about how you can make things better for *him* rather than making things better for your baby. something seems really off about that.


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## mamasneedlove (Mar 15, 2007)

I was blindsided, too, by the whole spanking thing (not what I expected), but I definitely remember tantrums. Any MIL who claims there were no tantrums and even implies blaming the mom of her grandkids for tantrums has lost her mind. Of course, I think they all lose their minds when that first grandbaby pops out.









I like to deal with tantrums by remembering that this little person is trying to figure out how to MOVE ENERGY! And just can't quite figure it out. They are total sponges for all the emotions of the folks around them, and don't know how to process it. One thing that worked well to help my son move energy instead of having a tantrum was to help him transition into pretending to be a roaring lion, or a loud jet. Sometimes that would even turn a tantrum into giggles (others, it would just bomb miserably. but you do what you can)

About the spanking, I can't really relate because my husband was beaten as a child (I don't really see the difference between being beaten and spanked, but I think the use of a belt or a stick constitutes being beaten) and so he was firmly against hitting of any kind. But if anyone ever hit my child, they would never come within 10 feet of him again. EVER. My husband is the light of my life, but that is one of the only deal breakers I can think of. It would be worse than if he slept with another woman. Just my two cents.







Good luck!


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
. I do see that a big part of why he has such a problem with tantrums is because he is pushing a lot of his own negative emotions down and can't handle people who don't control their emotions too. And, unfortunately, a lot of his negative emotions are because of me. I think he feels very pressured to provide for our material needs and is working so much to keep up with things that he feels I want/need, that he has lost his center and is actually spiralling downwards. *Because he is pushing himself so hard and not dealing with his own feelings, nor working out with me what he is able to provide for us and still remain healthy and balanced, his ability to deal with the kids' tantrums is extremely depleted.* I really don't want any material things at the expense of his wellbeing and I see I need to help us drastically reduce our spending.

oh my gosh!! you are amazing! i first read about the spanking and was ready to jump in and "explain" a thing or two but you have got it all figured out (sounds to me like our dh;s are very similar) way to go mama!!!





























he is really lucky to have such an insightful partnerm it's taken me a long time to be able to appreciate my mate's mood and stress. nak!!


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## monkeysmommy (Apr 3, 2003)

Well, my parents told me I only ever had one tantrum. And that was the only time they "had" to spank me.







But my mom said I would fold my arms and glare and give the silent treatment. Sometimes I would say I was going to my room and never coming out. I remember going in my room and throwing stuff around and biting my dolls. Then I would feel much better and come out. But that is just more my personality. I don't like conflict but I don't like stifling my feelings either so I often find some sort of personal outlet.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

Apparently my dh only had one tantrum, too. And he slept through the night at 6 weeks old. Ah, well.

Dd has tantrums. I'm sure that this has been said in the last few pages, but tantrums are an emotional release, especially in a 16-month-old. They're not manipulative and not bad behaviour. My dh sometimes feels the need to control dd's tantrums, but they are not something to control. It's hard to view raw emotional reactions, especially if you are a person who needs things to be ordered, logical, and controlled.

I'm very much ok with dd's tantrums and tend to sit next to her, then cuddle her and nurse her as she slows down. Once all of that energy is out, she's ok.

I echo the person who suggested jumping up and down or pounding something as an action when your son is frustrated. I've done this with dd, particularly at that age.

Oh, and as for the nursing - could it be that your son is frustrated because your milk supply might be getting smaller over time? Dd has always been one to push, prod, etc when she doesn't get milk right away. Now that she can discuss this, she knows that hands do not go on my chest when she is nursing.


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## Deer Hunter (Sep 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraN* 
momma:

Please take this with all the love that it's meant. I have been down the road you're on, and I'm hoping to help you see your way off it.

I think what you need to do is stop focusing on HIS behavior and start focusing on your relationship with him. If you want to be authoritarian in his life, and decide for him when he gets mommy love and when he doesn't, well, there are lots of other parenting boards where you can get advice on how to accomplish that.

If, on the other hand, you want to go the gentle discipline, connection way then you need to hear what everyone here is telling you.

A child doesn't get confused about nursing on demand. They associate it with mom, not with a time of day. So giving him that comfort whenever he wants it and you're with him is not "spoiling" nor is it "giving him bad habits." It's simply meeting his need for connection with you.

And as for tantrums, they are normal for his age. Anyone who tries to make you think there's something wrong with tantruming at his age is either not remembering right, or is coming from a place of disconnecting with children rather than connecting.

16 months is a hard age. There are so many things he wants to do and say, and he can't yet! It's so frustrating! The good news is, this period only lasts a few months until he can communicate better.

And I know you didn't ask about this--and take this from someone who has spanked. If your husband is using spanking as discipline, he is hitting your child. There is no sugar coating that. You say you were spanked and you're fine. I say this as respectfully as possible--but what you learned from being spanked is that it's OK for someone to show power over your child by hurting them. You've learned that it's OK for big people to control little people through intimidation and fear. You've also learned not to stand up for your child when they are being hurt. I learned the same lesson, and it's taken all the guts I can muster to stand up to my parents and my in-laws when they've tried to spank my children.

It is not OK for your husband to hit your 16 month old! He's only a baby! It's not OK for him to hit your child at any age. And while I'm with you on not starting gratuitous fights with your husband, my child's well-being is definitely a line I've drawn. Once I was able to find my way away from spanking, I swore nobody would ever hit my kids again. Luckily, DH was on board. But we've had to stand up to our parents and, man! that has not been easy.

So rather than nagging or fighting with your DH, could you try helping him learn more? People who spank generally haven't thought things through very well. Could you read discipline books with him? Help him see that he's starting down a road of disconnection with his son? Show him somehow that what is at stake is his very relationship with the teenager your DS will become?

I hope you can hear what I'm saying--your relationship with your husband is important. But it's a relationship of adults where neither is helplessly dependent on the other. Your son is helplessly dependent on you and you husband. He is not able to walk away if he doesn't like how he's being treated. Spanking teaches him that he is not worthy of respect. Is that really what you want your DH to teach him?


You are so right about what you are saying. I loved every word of it. A baby is not able to communicate. He is frustrated. He shows it and gets spanked for it, which is not fair, as it could teach him to stifle his emotions. Here is how I know:

My parents spanked me. Also, God bless their souls and I love them so much, but they were the classic parents that thought crying in public, at family gatherings, or in front of house guests was misbehaving, and I was disciplined for it--spanking. They said that if I did it, I was embarrassing them and that it needed to stop right away. So, to avoid further trouble, I haulted the tears though I still cried inside. Sometimes, I'd take it to a bathroom and cry softly to myself so as to not arouse further attention.

Then, I was physically abused, but not at the hands of my parents. They were the ones who liberated me and empowered me ot be the best I could be, which is the reason for me still being sane enough to function and lead a normal life despite some things I must work through. But, I was in pain. All through childhood, I'd spend hours in my room reading books, keeping to myself, and hardly talking to my parents about anything, as I've had it firmly planted in my brain that I had to handle everything on my own. Everyone thought my behavior was normal. They thought, "Well, she is a child who loves to be alone." Yes, I did, and it was for coping reasons.

I also developed a high tolerance for physical pain. I thought to myself that if I cried, I showed a sign of weakness. I gave my will and power away if I cried. (Nobody taught me this. I taught myself this way of thinking, as I did not want to give anyone the satisfaction of making me cry, whether it was during times of abuse or just receiving a spanking for punnishment from my parents. I was a child with a will, and I wasn't going to allow anyone to break that will no matter what they did to me. I had resentment toward adults, and I'd be darned if I gave them any satisfaction over me. I still buck authority really bad today in my adulthood: but, with steady spiritual training, and with the love and support of friends, it is getting better though I will demand an explanation for why I'm being asked to do something.) I can remember one day, i hurt myself really bad. I cut my foot open to the point that the meat and bones were showing. My parents could not believe that I wasn't crying in hysterics, and they just equated this to having a high pain threshold. I just came to them and said, "Here is my foot. Look at it." I said it like it was nothing.

As an adult, I'm extremely over sensitive. I cry at the drop of a hat. I think that this is because I know I'm adult and cannot be controled or intimmidated by any authoritive figures. I answer to nobody but myself, God, and the authorities. Because of this, it is safe to cry, as there are no repurcussions, and I won't be treated like I'm misbehaving. I'm also full of rage, as it has been bottled up for years. And, I still have that very high pain tolerance from childhood. I could get a deep cut and not even flench.

Sorry for all that writing. I just wanted to share my personal experience to hopefully help show that using physical punnishment, especially at such a young age, will either do one of two things. The baby will end up becoming a raging adult, as he has learned that he is not worthy of showing and expressing his feelings and that nobody cares. Or, he can turn inward on himself and refuse to communicate with his parents about his feelings. I did both.

I still find it hard to come to my parents about things that bother me, and I'm almost twenty-four. Though they never abused or hurt me, though they were so loving, I just felt that I needed to handle everything myself, as I did not want to arouse the thought that I was being bad, annoying, or a nuissance. That stems from my childhood. I hope someday, my parents and I can communicate better. We can talk about everything else--just about anything--except for problems I'm grappling with.


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## JayGee (Oct 5, 2002)

My 7 yo son never had a single tantrum as a toddler. My two daughters are more than making up for it though







. It has more to do with temperment than parenting.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

I don't usually post comments like this--I'm often someone who seeks advice and not one to criticize--but I find your post made me angry, too. It'll take me a while to shed the image of a 16 month old being hit by his father as a matter of course and his mother standing by.
I appreciate your passion and compassion for ds.

Currently, as a culture, we are moving towards viewing corporal punishment as abuse. However, not everyone is there yet. I myself started off advocating it as I was spanked (from age one), and it wasn't until I saw it backfiring that I gave serious thought to it and realized I was opposed. DH is not in a place yet to make that change, although we are working towards it.

Perhaps in your relationships, giving people ultimatums when you feel strongly about something works; with my dh an ultimatum is very counterproductive. It doesn't get me any closer to achieving a compassionate, close family relationship. Dialogue and examples of better approaches works. If I made an ultimatum, dh would check out. He would say "You don't want my help, do it yourself" and not take part in family growth and guidance at all. It would be an insult to his masculinity. Is this ideal? NO- but its where we are starting from. We will grow! I feel ds is better off having interactions with dad that once in a great while are negative, but which I am committed to helping him process (to the extent that they are not crossing a a line of poor discipline vs abuse), than to have no interactions and input. Ds is lucky to have a a father who cares so much about him, even if sometimes the way he cares is not "informed".

As far as protecting my ds, and essentially accusing me of doing nothing as my child is abused at the hands of his father, I really do not agree with you. My personal philosophy is that we choose our parents, and ds came to our family for a reason and as long as I set the greater example of healing and growing and accepting that everything that happens is for a reason and for a our good and growth, even if one or both parents have faults and make mistakes, we will be able to use those mistakes as springboards for a better life.

To add perspective, I have been physically and sexually abused (not by dh) and the experiences I have had have worked to make me more sensitive to the patterns that cause people to both give and accept unhealthy interactions, so that I can promote positive change in this world (and makes me stronger in my intent to not allow abuse to occur). I can honestly say I wouldn't trade my experiences for a perfect life. I am not a victim, and I don't believe in hanging on to victim mentalities- they cripple us instead of empowering us. Maybe some who have been abused will bristle at that because it can be hard to let go of our "right" to hold onto our pain but I am happier without it! Even flowers use storms and wind to help them stand straighter.

Quote:

MU, you seem to be taking an awful lot of responsibility for your DH and how he reacts to things. it's not your job to handle things for him so that he can deal. he's an adult and can (and should) take care of himself, and manage his own emotional responses.
I don't take responsibility for his actions, I just attempt to understand them and empathize so I can be in a position to help him grow. I do take responsibility for helping him grow as I think this is what partnership is about. Empathy is being able to see things from the other person's perspective; it is what gives us the best leverage for changing their perspective.

Quote:

but i do see you intellectualizing DH's behavior and talking about how you can make things better for *him* rather than making things better for your baby
Wow everyone seems to think we're a mess! You'd probably like us if you met us. Really I'd like to make things better for everyone, myself, ds, and dh! I think that I am although its great that you're challenging me to make sure.

I appreciate EVERYTHING that was said. Bottom line- my kids' tantrums don't mean I'm a bad mom; my family is working toward gd and I need to help create an environment that fosters gentle and thoughtful parenting by helping dh see he doesn't need to work 70 hours a week to meet our needs, leaving him so stressed he doesn't have patience/time to examine his parenting skills, and I need to show him solutions that don't involve spanking.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

my parents swear i never had a tantrum. DH's parents swear he never did either. DD must be having enough to make up for our lack!!!

anyway, i figure two things are occurring here. one, they don't remember what happened 20-30 years ago. or two, their kids were just different from ours. i don't think parenting style has much of anything to do with it because DH's parents were very GD and mine weren't and yet both swear we didn't tantrum.

DH's parents do say his sister did.

i dunno, i can't decide if it's more just that they don't remember what it was like to have a toddler.


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