# How do you feel about William Sears?



## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

I think he is a great example of Christian parenting and a viable alternative to whacked-out "Christian" discipline and child-rearing practices of the time. The question is---what do most of you think about his philosophy?







: Spill the beans and let me know----I have many of his books and I think they're on-the-level. I stopped spanking because of his books and research I did on biblical spanking. It's working, too----my kid is listening better and seems happier with me---he's 2 1/2 now.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I've yet to find a major thing I disagree with him on...can't even think of an example right now. He seems to speak to both sides of the fence and I think he's just mainstream enough to reach the ultra mainstream mama's and maybe make them rethink their parenting.

I reccomend his books to every mama-to-be I know.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Someone here once likened him to a "gateway drug." I Liked that! He's good to get someone into AP, but once your in he seems kind of mainstream.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

I voted the second option, but I HATE the fact that he is (or was) profiting from DHA for formula and I HATE that he has said "if you're going to spank, here's how to do it 'gently'".























His Fussy Baby book was a Godsend for me, though.


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## 3timesamama (Mar 30, 2005)

I think Dr. Sears is awesome and I voted that I agree with almost everything just because I think we're all going to do things differently and nobody will probably agree 100% on anything.
But it is because of him that I'm a great mom!


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
I voted the second option, but I HATE the fact that he is (or was) profiting from DHA for formula and I HATE that he has said "if you're going to spank, here's how to do it 'gently'"..

I interpret that as, "If you're going to spank anyway, here's how", and that's better than having some folks closing the book right after they read that if they will not be convinced from spanking no matter what anyone says. I think he really doesn't support spanking, he just wants to try and improve everyone's discipline situation. Post here or send me a private message on the DHA thing---I haven't heard of that---I am interested on where you heard this.

Susan


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## ^guest^ (Jul 2, 2005)

Sears was awesomely awesome -- especially because I couldn't breastfeed.

Lemme 'splain.

I have an autoimmune disorder which can seriously mess with my hormonal balance. The disorder was, unfortunately only diagnosed after I had given up my chance at breastfeeding. I was left nearly incapable of producing milk, and no support to continue trying when it was clearly not working as it was. It was either be hooked up to a pump 16 hours a day, or bottle feed. Being a first time mom with little to no help from DH, I opted to bottlefeed. I worked through the guilt and depression in agony, but I found the Sears' book to be understanding and encouraging, giving ways to bond in similiar fashions. I often bottlenursed her on my bare tummy for the skin to skin contact, fed her on demand, and every other trick in the sears book. So I had to thank him for making it, at least tolerable to give up the hope of breastfeeding her (though I still plan to make a far more educated and well-prepared effort with the next baby!







)


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

He got me into ap and gd, which I love. But now he's a bit too mainstream for me.


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

He's helped me personally on two seperate occasions. I don't think I'll ever agree 100% with anyone, but when ds was 9 months old, I read Nightime Parenting, and it changed my entire outlook on life. I voted the second option. I have some points I'd love to argue with him over, but when I was struggling with nursing while pregnant and then again, when dd2 was passing visible blood for Months as a newborn, he and Jack Newman _both_ answered personal emails from me, and helped me figure out what to do without weaning her to hypoallergenic formula, which is what everyone else was telling me I had to do. At almost 3, she's still nursing strong, and I KNOW I'd have given up without them.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
I interpret that as, "If you're going to spank anyway, here's how", and that's better than having some folks closing the book right after they read that if they will not be convinced from spanking no matter what anyone says. I think he really doesn't support spanking, he just wants to try and improve everyone's discipline situation. Post here or send me a private message on the DHA thing---I haven't heard of that---I am interested on where you heard this.

Susan

I don't consider sugar-coating violence against children to be better than saying outright that it's wrong. If he TRULY felt that spanking was wrong he would NOT condone it or give freaking *INSTRUCTIONS* on how to do it. uke

As far as the DHA thing goes, this is an old issue that has been covered here at MDC numerous times. I can't do a search for the threads here, but this is an article by Katie Allison Granju about it:

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature...ula/print.html

I just checked his website, and yep, he still has the www.dhadoc.com link on there in the Bottlefeeding section. BTW, *HE* is the DHA Doc. Go to that website and you'll see that it's sponsored by "Neuromins" DHA Products, which produces all sorts of DHA supplements. The manufacturer of Neuromins is Martek Biosciences www.martekbio.com , which produces the DHA found in a slew of infant formulas.

Like I said in my original post, overall I think he is good and like a PP said, a good "gateway" into AP. Personally, though, I am tired of hearing how AP needs to be welcoming of people who practice everything EXCEPT gentle discipline. I'm not willing to compromise on that issue, and it saddened and horrified me that Sears did.


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## mommy2boys (Dec 31, 2002)

I do have a lot of admiration for him because he got me into GD. I remember buying his book when my oldest was 2 and just being so frustrated with him (before we had his diagnosis of autism). It was the discipline book. It was such a breath of fresh air, dh and I read it together. Now he does seem a bit more mainstream for us, but he taught me about baby wearing which I knew nothing of and got me addicted to GD. I think he has his place and am glad he's around.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

I guess it can be argued either way, and I base my decision not to spank on other research I've done on analyses on biblical verses that many interpret as proof to spank---a good article on Biblical Discipline that nit-picks through the concept of discipline and the infamous "rod" verses can be found on www.ezzo.info (a site I stumbled upon when I was digging dirt on Ezzo to give to my FIL and MIL---a bold move, but worth it, I think, because they subscribe to Ezzo without a second thought). I do think that spanking is wrong and I think you may at least concede that Sears prefers 'shaping' a child's behavior through being attentive rather than 'controlling' a child's behavior. He does go through several pages in his Discipline book about the evils of spanking, which I admire, including saying outright that it doesn't work, that it promotes aggression and anger, and so on, so I'd like to know which book he talks about the spanking method. Maybe it was one of those written before he figured out not to spank (he did have 8 kids, and he talks about how he learned throughout their development and his writing).
Also, I don't see what's wrong with him promoting DHA in formulas, since it has been shown to be a component in breastmilk that builds babies brains. However, it sounds like he has made an effort to remove formula ads from his site when you read the entire article, you see that it is unresolved, but that he recognizes that he made a mistake:

From the article:

[["I made a mistake in allowing the ads for infant formula to appear on my site," said Sears, who has since removed the link to the StoreBrands site. "I accept responsibility for that mistake and I plan to correct it."...

Sears notes that it is his opinion that his parenting books are merely "preaching to the choir," and that he is extremely eager to find a way to promote the benefits of baby bonding to parents who aren't breast-feeding. He says that he has recently explored a number of ideas to get his message out, including holding discussions with Wyeth Nutritionals about putting brochures promoting attachment parenting (and presumably AskDrSears.com) inside 30 million cans of infant formula. Since coming under fire for his ties to PBM Products, Sears says that he is no longer considering this idea...

Sears reports that the banner ads for infant formula will be removed from AskDrSears.com this week. (They disappeared from the site Tuesday.) He now wants to challenge his core audience to come up with creative ways to connect with bottle-feeding parents who might be interested in attachment parenting.

"Bottle-feeding mothers should be encouraged to practice all the other aspects of attachment parenting, and I want to figure out how to remedy that," said Sears.
]]

I feel that he made a good venture in trying to get bottle-feeders to become more attached to their babies, but he just went about it in a way that was unwise. It is encouraging that he renounced the idea after getting negative feedback from moms like us. I am glad to see from visiting his site that there are no more formula banners on it---I found a great one for getting a free sample of Meyenberg Goat Milk---check it out at the bottom of the main screen.

In contrast, when you go to www.ezzo.info, an informational site compiled to expose the flaws in the Ezzo parenting series and the Ezzos themselves, you will see the difference in character between the two. This is outlined in The Ezzo Timeline article, which outlines Ezzo's history of selfish behavior, among other things. Character is a very important issue to me, especially when following teachings of said attachment parenting author.

Now, we all make mistakes, but at least Dr. Sears is willing to fix them. I still stand by it when I agree with Dr. Sears' parenting method, and I can choose which parts of the book to accept while empathizing that he is trying to reach out to some stubborn parents who might still choose to spank despite how bad he says it is for kids in his book, The Discipline Book. I can also see the same motivation behind the formula venture, and I'm glad the article in the link you gave me shows that he recognizes that he made a mistake.

I still don't see a problem with the DHA in formula---if you can give me another link to check that out, I would like to read it---I'm obsessed with learning anything Baby. Thanks a lot for the info!

Susan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
I don't consider sugar-coating violence against children to be better than saying outright that it's wrong. If he TRULY felt that spanking was wrong he would NOT condone it or give freaking *INSTRUCTIONS* on how to do it. uke

As far as the DHA thing goes, this is an old issue that has been covered here at MDC numerous times. I can't do a search for the threads here, but this is an article by Katie Allison Granju about it:

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature...ula/print.html

I just checked his website, and yep, he still has the www.dhadoc.com link on there in the Bottlefeeding section. BTW, *HE* is the DHA Doc. Go to that website and you'll see that it's sponsored by "Neuromins" DHA Products, which produces all sorts of DHA supplements. The manufacturer of Neuromins is Martek Biosciences www.martekbio.com , which produces the DHA found in a slew of infant formulas.

Like I said in my original post, overall I think he is good and like a PP said, a good "gateway" into AP. Personally, though, I am tired of hearing how AP needs to be welcoming of people who practice everything EXCEPT gentle discipline. I'm not willing to compromise on that issue, and it saddened and horrified me that Sears did.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

I really liked his books for the fact they are easy to read and accessable. DH actually read them (well, parts at least







) Because Im not Christian I never looked into that aspect of his life.

I often recommend his books because they are so digestable. I havent found _anyone_ I completely agree with about _anything_ , so I certianly wasnt looking for that in child rearing books !


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## tiffany21074 (Jan 22, 2006)

I don't agree with his vax stance.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
this is an article by Katie Allison Granju about it:

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature...ula/print.html

That article contains this quote:

Quote:

Sears notes that it is his opinion that his parenting books are merely "preaching to the choir," and that he is extremely eager to find a way to promote the benefits of baby bonding to parents who aren't breast-feeding.
...so marketing formula is the way to do this? That logic doesn't gel with me, plus it sounds like he seriously misunderstands his audience. AP mamas get the word out about his website (which many mainstream mamas I know use to get answers to questions) and send his books to friends all the time. He is NOT preaching to the choir, he is, as somebody else mentioned, a "gateway" to AP.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

His book about Fathering is extremely homophobic.


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

For the most part I like him, but that book for fathers waspretty bad. I can't remember specifics, but I remember reading some of it and deciding to to give it to dh.


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

I agree with others - he's decent as a gateway drug, but from a really AP/GD and especially from an NFL standpoint, he kinda sucks. I loathe how sexist he and his stance on parenting is, although I like that he does talk about ways for fathers to bond. I hate that he's basically anti-homebirth, although I like that he's pro-gentle birth. I understand and sympathize with wanting to promote attachment parenting to families who have already chosen not to breastfeed, but I dislike his financial attachments to mass-marketed products (the Arms Reach Cosleeper, the Over the Shoulder Baby Holder, etc).

I'll probably break down and get The Baby Book because it _is_ the best out there of its kind, but I'm not actually a fan of his. I do recommend him to mainstreamish people, though, especially Christians, because of his gateway effect and mainstream appeal.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I like him a lot--"The Baby Book" was by far the most useful child rearing book I've found. His other books are good too, but "The Baby Book" was the most comprehensive. I don't agree with him on vax or homebirth or a lot of the "medical" parts, but he is an M.D. after all. I think he comes on a bit strongly on some of his points, but still less so than other parenting "experts."

I don't have a problem with promoting DHA in formula. Of course breastfeeding is best, but why not try to have as healthy a formula as possible for those who do use it?


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Well, this is a timely poll.

I do own the baby book, just as a quick cross-reference to my other books for health and development issues. I do like that he promotes AP, but I lean more towards NFL and he is not really down with that. He is even-handed enough to keep some mainstream parents assuaged, but not nearly committed enough to lactivism and intactivism etc...

DH brought up the issue of furture tantrums today. As in, he expects our spirited ds to have tantrums. I brought out my copy of the Baby Book for a quick perusal. I never noticed that Sears advocates time-outs. Not my cuppa tea.

I also don't agree with his vaccine stance and, oh yeah........

*He is a Baby Cutter!* His stance on circumcision is sooo wishy-washy. Probably because he profitted from so many ruined foreskins







.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

I like his philosophy and find it very gentle but still "mainstream" enough to reach the general population. I recommend "The Baby Book" to all new parents.

There are minor things that I don't agree with and sometimes he makes it sounds like if you just do the "list of B's" you will never have a moment's trouble parenting a young child and you'll always be rested and happy...which is a little misleading IMO







...but among childcare gurus he is pretty great, and I may have him or one of his sons for DD's ped next year.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadkitty*

*He is a Baby Cutter!* His stance on circumcision is sooo wishy-washy. Probably because he profitted from so many ruined foreskins







.

oh yeah!!!! I read his advise on circ before I let ds be circed.














:







:
It was like - oh, its a personal decision, it hurts (my interpretation- if you use anesthesia, its ok- maybe he even says something along those lines), but that's the biggest problem. Otherwise, do what you want to do.








Ok, so I hate that part.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
Personally, though, I am tired of hearing how AP needs to be welcoming of people who practice everything EXCEPT gentle discipline. I'm not willing to compromise on that issue, and it saddened and horrified me that Sears did.

yeah, gd is my "issue" (along with circ) as far as, I can understand everything else, but I just won't/can't condone non-gd or circing (well, I guess I have to accept it if its done out of ignorance. But don't worry- I constantly beat myself up over it







: )


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
I don't consider sugar-coating violence against children to be better than saying outright that it's wrong. If he TRULY felt that spanking was wrong he would NOT condone it or give freaking *INSTRUCTIONS* on how to do it....

Personally, though, I am tired of hearing how AP needs to be welcoming of people who practice everything EXCEPT gentle discipline. I'm not willing to compromise on that issue, and it saddened and horrified me that Sears did.

Here's directly from his Discipline book, pg.156:

After 9 pages describing the evils of spanking, he takes 4 1/2 to describe how to incorporate gentle discipline in with it if you're going to be bull-headed and ignore his advice against spanking:

"By now you should realize that our position on spanking is clear: don't. But we are experienced enough to realize that some loving, nurturing, committed parents believe in spanking as part of their overall discipline package. We are also quite aware that regardless of our advice against spanking, some parents are going to spank their children. For these parents, the best we can hope for is to help them spank in a way that will be less abusive. Consider these suggestions."

Then he goes on to describe how to do the following if someone chooses to spank regardless of his being against it, with at least a paragraph for each topic:
"Examine your overall parenting style"
"Examine your relationship with your child"
"Don't spank in anger"
"Determine where spanking fits in your overall discipline package"
"Do not violate your child"
"Explain the spank"
"Ask yourself, 'Is spanking wrong?'"
"Examine the time you spend with your child"

Even in these sections, he again tries to convince the would-be spanker that spanking is wrong---there are statements like, "Change what you're doing if the distance between you and your child is increasing [regarding any disciplinary action, not just spanking]. I think by giving a sort-of alternative to people too stubborn and set in their traditional ways to listen to his first stance on no spanking, he is trying to convince them to choose not to spank, whereas if they didn't have this section, they might reject what he says altogether. And, even if some still weren't convinced against spanking altogether, at least they might still spank rarely and less violently from reading his advice. I think I like his approach in this light. It doesn't read like a compromise to me, just a plea to those who might not otherwise listen: DON'T SPANK---HERE'S SOME ALTERNATIVES!


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy*
oh yeah!!!! I read his advise on circ before I let ds be circed.














:







:
It was like - oh, its a personal decision, it hurts (my interpretation- if you use anesthesia, its ok- maybe he even says something along those lines), but that's the biggest problem. Otherwise, do what you want to do.








Ok, so I hate that part.

yeah, gd is my "issue" (along with circ) as far as, I can understand everything else, but I just won't/can't condone non-gd or circing (well, I guess I have to accept it if its done out of ignorance. But don't worry- I constantly beat myself up over it







: )

See my last post on that---he really is into GD, he's just trying to reach the stubborn ones, too. And I don't agree with circ, either, I guess I really do agree with most everything else that I've read---some of the things you guys are bringing up I have not seen yet. I don't have the Fathering book, just the Discipline book, Christian parenting, The Baby Book, The Birth Book, Attachment Parenting and The Successful Child.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

I think he really is a good guy---not just money hungry like all those other parenting 'gurus', though it would be silly to say he didn't want to make a profit!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Neoma*
Sears was awesomely awesome -- especially because I couldn't breastfeed.

Lemme 'splain.

I have an autoimmune disorder which can seriously mess with my hormonal balance. The disorder was, unfortunately only diagnosed after I had given up my chance at breastfeeding. I was left nearly incapable of producing milk, and no support to continue trying when it was clearly not working as it was. It was either be hooked up to a pump 16 hours a day, or bottle feed. Being a first time mom with little to no help from DH, I opted to bottlefeed. I worked through the guilt and depression in agony, but I found the Sears' book to be understanding and encouraging, giving ways to bond in similiar fashions. I often bottlenursed her on my bare tummy for the skin to skin contact, fed her on demand, and every other trick in the sears book. So I had to thank him for making it, at least tolerable to give up the hope of breastfeeding her (though I still plan to make a far more educated and well-prepared effort with the next baby!







)


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*

I don't have a problem with promoting DHA in formula. Of course breastfeeding is best, but why not try to have as healthy a formula as possible for those who do use it?

i am just picking this post to answer because it was close to the bottom of the page.

my understanding is that the FDA does not require any tests of the substances being added to formulas before they go on the market. i don't recall the technical name for it, but it essentially means that the consumers are the guinea pigs. problem is, these consumers, who have no choice and no say are infants. i have read that several babies have ended up having some significant GI issues secondary to the DHA products that have been added.

i suspect that there is someone here who is far more knowledgable than i on this front.

i don't feel it should be added when it's not been proven and is making some babies sick.

there's also the whole, 'oh, it has the same stuff in it as is in breastmilk, so it must be just as good as breastmilk'. i know, not everyone would think that way, but some do.


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## acystay (Aug 15, 2002)

What I have to say is what many others have said. He is a great gateway and I like that. I do recommend him to new moms as a way of beginning the road to AP or GD. My thought is if I can get someone to adopt some aspects of AP great.

My dd (now 4 1/2) turned into a screaming baby around 3wks. I couldn't handle it. I never heard of AP and honestly thought many things were crazy. What I will say is after reading the book and implementing the concepts (not the mindset yet b/c I wasn't convinced), she became a totally different baby.

Funny, thing to add...I was looking for a different ped when she was around 6/7 mos. This was in 'burbs of Chicago. We went to one and there were several parents to be there. He asked us if there were any parenting books we liked. His suggestion was Brazleton. I said Sears. His reply, "Ummm, well, okay. He's a bit avocado, west coast so if you like that kind of thing." Seriously!

About the vaxing thing someone mentioned they don't agree w/ him. My children see Dr. Bob (mostly) who gives this awesome vaxing talk to patients' parents. Dr. Bob says as well his dad doesn't agree w/ the no vaxing stance, but will suppot a delayed or selective vaxing schedule that Dr. Bob and Dr. Jim will use in the practice now. I just like going there to the practice b/c I can walk in and get support on just about anything. Corbin was born at home and Dr. Bob had no issue w/ it nor the no circing.

I think it'll be nice to see his sons write, esp. Dr. Bob, write some things on their own. Dr. Bob has mentioned Dr. Bill has said that he should write a vaxing book.

Okay, that's all!


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
Here's directly from his Discipline book, pg.156:

After 9 pages describing the evils of spanking, he takes 4 1/2 to describe how to incorporate gentle discipline in with it if you're going to be bull-headed and ignore his advice against spanking:

"By now you should realize that our position on spanking is clear: don't. But we are experienced enough to realize that some loving, nurturing, committed parents believe in spanking as part of their overall discipline package. We are also quite aware that regardless of our advice against spanking, some parents are going to spank their children. For these parents, the best we can hope for is to help them spank in a way that will be less abusive. Consider these suggestions."

Then he goes on to describe how to do the following if someone chooses to spank regardless of his being against it, with at least a paragraph for each topic:
"Examine your overall parenting style"
"Examine your relationship with your child"
"Don't spank in anger"
"Determine where spanking fits in your overall discipline package"
"Do not violate your child"
"Explain the spank"
"Ask yourself, 'Is spanking wrong?'"
"Examine the time you spend with your child"

Even in these sections, he again tries to convince the would-be spanker that spanking is wrong---there are statements like, "Change what you're doing if the distance between you and your child is increasing [regarding any disciplinary action, not just spanking]. I think by giving a sort-of alternative to people too stubborn and set in their traditional ways to listen to his first stance on no spanking, he is trying to convince them to choose not to spank, whereas if they didn't have this section, they might reject what he says altogether. And, even if some still weren't convinced against spanking altogether, at least they might still spank rarely and less violently from reading his advice. I think I like his approach in this light. It doesn't read like a compromise to me, just a plea to those who might not otherwise listen: DON'T SPANK---HERE'S SOME ALTERNATIVES!









I think I'm going to barf.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
For these parents, the best we can hope for is to help them spank in a way that will be less abusive.

*HITTING A CHILD IS NOT OKAY* and it is not possible to talk about abuse in terms of "less" is better than "more". The fact that Sears believes it is possible to be "less abusive" speaks *VOLUMES*. It is horrible *no matter how often it occurs or how it is done.* Abuse is abuse, and it shouldn't be tolerated, *ESPECIALLY* by people who say they follow AP.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
And, even if some still weren't convinced against spanking altogether, at least they might still spank rarely and less violently from reading his advice.

"Less violently" means that *A CHILD IS STILL BEING HIT*.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
It doesn't read like a compromise to me, just a plea to those who might not otherwise listen: DON'T SPANK---HERE'S SOME ALTERNATIVES!

But he *DOES* tell parents how to spank, and if he DOESN'T think that spanking is okay, why *COMPROMISE* that value?







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I don't like him. He's homophobic.


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*
I don't like him. He's homophobic.









:

That's actually a large part of why I don't recommend The Continuum Concept to anyone, either, even though I like the overall message. It's just not ok to be homophobic (even "just a little") than it is to advocate violence toward children (even "just a little").

There's no one I agree with entirely, but there are people (Sheila Kitzinger, for one) I can disagree with and still respect, but Sears isn't really one of them.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Oh crap, how is the Continuum Concept homophobic?? (Or on second thought, maybe don't tell me







)


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

It's only one bit, takes up less than half a page if I recall right, and on her website she has a statement retracting it, saying she would like the publishers to release a new version without the "bad mothering leads to homosexuality" bit but that would cost too much money or something.

But I won't recommend the book until it does get changed, because it's just not cool. Anyway, Our Bodies Ourselves and Unconditional Parenting send similar messages without the homophobic content.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
I don't have a problem with promoting DHA in formula. Of course breastfeeding is best, but why not try to have as healthy a formula as possible for those who do use it?

I don't have a problem with promoting DHA in formula, either. That's not what my point was.

I have a problem with a doctor PROFITING from the sale of formula. That's against the WHO code, plain and simple.


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

I have The Baby Book and I can't count the number of times it's helped me already (DD's not yet 5 mo). It's a great "owner's manual" and I recommend it to friends.

Oh, and I voted Option 2 because you can't agree with everyone about everything!


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## MizLiz (Jan 23, 2005)

I don't find that his books are particularly Christian... am I missing something?

I enjoy his books and often find myself recommending them to other mothers.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MizLiz*
I don't find that his books are particularly Christian... am I missing something?

I enjoy his books and often find myself recommending them to other mothers.

he does have (at least) one christian parenting book.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't like him at all, but I do give The Baby Book to very mainstream people as shower gifts along with a sling.

I don't like:
His vax stance
His circ stance
His hitting stance
His homophobic attitude


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

What has he said that y'all are considering to be "homophobic"? I'm curious about that.

I don't think he's wishy-washy about gd at all. He doesn't give instructions about spanking, he gives instructions about *not* spanking. Basically he says "you really shouldn't spank at all, and here's why, but if you do spank don't ever do it with an object or while angry or very often." That's not pro-spanking IMO, any more than it's pro-drunkenness to say, "you shouldn't get drunk at all, but if you do, at least don't drive a car." I think that the vast majority of the parents who read that part with an open mind would not come away thinking of it as pro-spanking. Of course I would prefer if he unequivically stated that spanking is universally evil, but he has to work with what there is.

He isn't pro-circ either. He was very clear that there is no medical benefit to circ and said that pain relief is a birthright. There's not much more he *could* say, is there?

I know that promoting formula is against the WHO, but then I don't agree with the WHO and I don't know that Sears does either. So he's not being hypocritical anyway.

But I still do disagree with him about vax and homebirth, and *to a certain extent* sleeping. Overall though I think he is one of the best out there.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Proudly AP*
i am just picking this post to answer because it was close to the bottom of the page.

my understanding is that the FDA does not require any tests of the substances being added to formulas before they go on the market. i don't recall the technical name for it, but it essentially means that the consumers are the guinea pigs. problem is, these consumers, who have no choice and no say are infants. i have read that several babies have ended up having some significant GI issues secondary to the DHA products that have been added.

i suspect that there is someone here who is far more knowledgable than i on this front.

i don't feel it should be added when it's not been proven and is making some babies sick.

there's also the whole, 'oh, it has the same stuff in it as is in breastmilk, so it must be just as good as breastmilk'. i know, not everyone would think that way, but some do.

I hadn't heard of DHA being untested or making babies sick. Does anyone have any more info on this?


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## mlec (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm*
Someone here once likened him to a "gateway drug." I Liked that! He's good to get someone into AP, but once your in he seems kind of mainstream.









:

I have his discipline book, but I have only opened it once--I read that if your child is intentionally "soiling his pants" and having him clean up the mess doesn't solve the problem, then keeping him confined to his room all day and only giving him bread and water could be an appropriate punishment. HUH?!?! Your child has some kind of issue so big he's crapping his pants, and locking him in his room and making him fast are the answer?







:

I also think he is WAY too soft on circumcision.









And pathetic on vaccinating.









And to me he comes across as sexist.

That being said, I give The Baby Book and 25 Things Every New Mother Should Know as shower gifts all the time. Most of the ppl I know are way too mainstream to have a better introduction to AP. Although I did give a subscription to Mothering magazine for my last shower gift!


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## mlec (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
He isn't pro-circ either. He was very clear that there is no medical benefit to circ and said that pain relief is a birthright. There's not much more he *could* say, is there?

Uh, he could say that intact genitals is a birthrite.









He could say that male genital mutilation should be illegal.

He could share info provided by ppl like Dr. Fleiss with his vast readership.


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## klondikesky (May 27, 2004)

Dr. Sears is pro-GD without a doubt. I have two dds who would be spanked often if it weren't for him. My parents and school teachers were big believers in beating the h--- out of children (thank you Dr. Dobson, where is the flippin' the bird smilie when you need it?). Parents who didn't 'let' the teachers spank their kids with a wooden paddle were rare and considered very permissive and irresponsible. Thank God Penelope introduced me to The Baby Book. I sought out The Discipline Book when dd1 turned 2 1/2, and it has been a tremendous help with sticking with GD.

Qtopia-- fwiw, I believe that spanking is completely wrong, as well as ineffective. However, there is a difference between the regular beatings I took by hand, wooden spoon, flyswatter, various belts, ping pong paddles, and task-specific wooden paddles with holes and without, and highly abusive call CPS NOW beatings. Yes, a parent is wrong to slap her child on her bluejeaned butt with a flyswatter when she tries in earnest to maim her younger brother. It is nonsensical and utterly ineffective. But to lump this type of behavior in with serious black & blue bloody beatings is also nonsensical and ineffective. You're demonizing the parent who really loves and cares about the development of her child, but is acting on ignorance and misinformation. Just the parent who is most likely to become a convert when exposed to good, accessible GD information from someone who understands that she wants what's best for her child.

Dr. Sears is great because he remembers that we are all equally capable of following the crowd/culture/misinformation parade with *good* intentions. He arms parents with the best information on GD and baby care *he* has. Perhaps not perfect, but who is?


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## jesuslovinmamaof3 (Jun 10, 2006)

I just started reading his Christian Parenting book. I was at my witts end with my 4 year old. She just would not listen and with an almost 2 year old son, and a baby on the way, I was looking for any kind of advice I could get on how to make my daughter listen and how to not throw a tantrum when it was time to come inside and have to chase her around while trying to wrangle up my ds and hold on to the baby. So I talked to a couple of home-schooling moms at church, and they recommended the discipline books by The Pearls. I believed what they were saying at first, that to spank a child was what is written in the Bible. To discipline with the "rod". So yes, I tried it, but after reading more and more, I became disgusted. The Pearls wrote about "switching" 10-20 times for first time offenses. Well, once again, we were without any form of discipline in our home, and my daughter was acting up worse than before because of the "rod". So I was directed to Dr. Sears by a friend. I found his Christian Parenting book, and I am happy to say that after reading his section on discipline, things are much better at our house. My daughter has never listened to me this well. I talk to her like she is old enough to understand. We practice gentle discipline, if she doesnt listen, I take away a privelage, like she wont be able to go outside for the afternoon or something. I dont know anything about his stance on DHA, because I am kinda just starting to read up on him, but from what I have read, I really have a lot of admiration for him as a Christian, a parent and a doctor. And his book has really changed how I parent and how I view parenting.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlec*
Uh, he could say that intact genitals is a birthrite.









He could say that male genital mutilation should be illegal.

He could share info provided by ppl like Dr. Fleiss with his vast readership.









:

What she said plus (from the 1993 edition of the BabyBook)

He calls the foreskin a "tiny half inch of skin" Which reveals his ignorance of the structure of the parts he is cutting off. (pg. 32)

Admitting to being an infant genital sculptor he says "I have used local anesthesia in nearly a thousand babies in the last ten years. It is a safe procedure and it works." (pg. 33)

He also states that phismosis requires circumcision to resolve, which is total crap. He tows the typical American doctor line; something "wrong" with this particular body part? Well, chop it off already.

Now, if he has changed his stane in the last few years, great. Otherwise I would NOT recommend the Baby Book to anyone that might even consider this man's hesitant approval of surgical, cosmetic amputaion of infant genital
parts.














:


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

I can rest easy at night knowing that I am not willing to condone violence *of any sort* against children.


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## cfiddlinmama (May 9, 2006)

I voted for option 2. Dr Sears got me into AP. Dr Sears got me to stop spanking my kids when all I was ever taught was it was a parents duty and obligation to spank. Dr Sears taught me how to wean my child from my bed without CIO. I am very grateful to Dr. Sears. I give the Baby Book to every one I know having a baby.

I disagree with him on vaxin, infant feeding/nutrition, circ and probably a few other things. I ALWAYS tell people my problems with the book before I hand it too them. I think that people who discribe him as a gateway are right on. He sure was for me. Now I'm learning more from you awesome people and I sure appreciate it!

As far as the spanking chapter goes, it worked really well for me and it's really helping my husband to change his beliefs too. Most of the people I know are hard core pro spanking (and I don't think they're bruising their children and causing lasting PHYSICAL damage, just emotional, which is hard to accept.) and I think the Discipline Book would go far to convince them of the error of their long held belief. Some people just need some time to change their minds (I sure did!)


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
What has he said that y'all are considering to be "homophobic"? I'm curious about that.

I just cruised his site to see what I could find. I haven't read his book about boys but since people mentioned it, I started by searching the site for "fathering" and within minutes, found this:

Quote:

Paternal behavior that is macho without tenderness is associated with non-masculine behavior in sons.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t110100.asp

I believe people object to the implication that macho, non-tender fathers *cause* their sons to be gay (non-masculine). The idea behind the quote is that non-masculine behavior in a boy, i.e. a swishy flaming gay son, is undesirable.

Now, *if* there were actually excellent empirical research showing a connection between parenting and sexuality, I'd love to read it. But I don't believe it exists and as such, suggestions like this seem rather homophobic.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlec*
I have his discipline book, but I have only opened it once--I read that if your child is intentionally "soiling his pants" and having him clean up the mess doesn't solve the problem, then keeping him confined to his room all day and only giving him bread and water could be an appropriate punishment.

I was SURE you must have misread this, got out my book, and sure enough, he does indeed recommend using this as a threat to "get the attention" of an older (6 y/o+) child who is intentionally soiling their pants. I wish he had elaborated on why he thinks this is a good/effective tool for changing this behavior. I'm willing to believe that there is *some* good reason for it, but on the surface and in my thoughts, it seems excessively harsh/punitive.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tiffany21074*
I don't agree with his vax stance.









:

Otherwise, his books are the ones I usually refer/lend to others because I know he's more...approachable, I guess. He doesn't come on too strong, I guess is what I'm trying to say.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

When I was a new mom, my dh said I could only begin five sentences a day with "Dr. Sears says . . ."









I think Dr. Sears is great. I have the Baby Book, the Discipline Book (excellent imo), and the Family Nutrition Book. I would highly reccomend The Baby Book for any new mom.

I do wish he would take a stronger stance against circ, though.


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## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qtopia*
edited by moderator to remove a removed quote


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Originally posted by QTopia---But he *DOES* tell parents how to spank, and if he DOESN'T think that spanking is okay, why *COMPROMISE* that value?







:

I don't see it as a compromise---he wrote that section because he knows some people will do it anyway, which is a realistic observation. Think about it this way---if someone was an abuser reading his book and didn't accept his stance on no spanking, they would continue to hurt their child. On the other hand, if they saw the section for parents who continued to abuse their kids, they might at least do it less harshly---the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Just because he gave an outline on how to spank more humanely doesn't mean it encourages spanking, it all depends on your interpretation. Don't forget that after that part, he goes into a lengthy chapter on alternatives to spanking. I have been using this chapter in The Discipline Book with great success----SPANK FREE for two weeks now, and I won't start spanking ever again.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point of his spanking description---we see two sides of the same coin, huh?


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Well written! But I don't think she is intending to demonize parents. All of us have varying reactions and emotions that come out in our typing, and it's important that we try to empathize with each other's stances. I'm certainly benefiting from all these opinions, and it's helping me sort through the good and the bad advice from Sears. Thanks, gals!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *klondikesky*
Dr. Sears is pro-GD without a doubt. I have two dds who would be spanked often if it weren't for him. My parents and school teachers were big believers in beating the h--- out of children (thank you Dr. Dobson, where is the flippin' the bird smilie when you need it?). Parents who didn't 'let' the teachers spank their kids with a wooden paddle were rare and considered very permissive and irresponsible. Thank God Penelope introduced me to The Baby Book. I sought out The Discipline Book when dd1 turned 2 1/2, and it has been a tremendous help with sticking with GD.

Qtopia-- fwiw, I believe that spanking is completely wrong, as well as ineffective. However, there is a difference between the regular beatings I took by hand, wooden spoon, flyswatter, various belts, ping pong paddles, and task-specific wooden paddles with holes and without, and highly abusive call CPS NOW beatings. Yes, a parent is wrong to slap her child on her bluejeaned butt with a flyswatter when she tries in earnest to maim her younger brother. It is nonsensical and utterly ineffective. But to lump this type of behavior in with serious black & blue bloody beatings is also nonsensical and ineffective. You're demonizing the parent who really loves and cares about the development of her child, but is acting on ignorance and misinformation. Just the parent who is most likely to become a convert when exposed to good, accessible GD information from someone who understands that she wants what's best for her child.

Dr. Sears is great because he remembers that we are all equally capable of following the crowd/culture/misinformation parade with *good* intentions. He arms parents with the best information on GD and baby care *he* has. Perhaps not perfect, but who is?


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Hmm...that does seem harsh---I don't think rewarding or punishing with food is wise at all. I think a punishment this particular would depend on the child's personality---sometimes these parenting books go too far.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funshine*
I was SURE you must have misread this, got out my book, and sure enough, he does indeed recommend using this as a threat to "get the attention" of an older (6 y/o+) child who is intentionally soiling their pants. I wish he had elaborated on why he thinks this is a good/effective tool for changing this behavior. I'm willing to believe that there is *some* good reason for it, but on the surface and in my thoughts, it seems excessively harsh/punitive.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Well, he should have reworded it to say if father's don't show enough affection to their boys, it might cause them to find that affection from another male figure since they are missing that in their lives. While that sounds homophobic, that is a situation in someone I know personally---the Dad flatly ignored his son and was just a breadwinner, and the son is a homosexual. It is a possibility, and I don't think it is wrong to point out that possibility, but it shouldn't be put in such terms to suggest that it will certainly happen---this creates controversy. We do recognize that when Dads don't show affection and attention to their girls, it causes them to look for that in other men. I believe this because I see it in relatives and friends that I know.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funshine*
I just cruised his site to see what I could find. I haven't read his book about boys but since people mentioned it, I started by searching the site for "fathering" and within minutes, found this:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t110100.asp

I believe people object to the implication that macho, non-tender fathers *cause* their sons to be gay (non-masculine). The idea behind the quote is that non-masculine behavior in a boy, i.e. a swishy flaming gay son, is undesirable.

Now, *if* there were actually excellent empirical research showing a connection between parenting and sexuality, I'd love to read it. But I don't believe it exists and as such, suggestions like this seem rather homophobic.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rowdypea*
Didn't you just say "I think I'm going to barf" as a response to someone else? How is that having an intelligent conversation? It goes both ways, yk.

You're right. I'm genuinely sorry for my stupid comments.







ETA I want to apologize publicly to bradleybirth2mom and boongirl for my childish and snarkish responses to you both. I'm really sorry.

This is a hot button issue for me because I think Sears' instructions on how to hit "calmly, gently, lovingly" delude people into thinking _it is possible to hit children without harming them._

Sears says: (bolding is mine-Qtopia)
"Examine your overall parenting style. If you are generally a nurturing parent practicing the attachment style of parenting, *an occasional spanking is unlikely to damage your child or relationship.* Examine your relationship with your child. Do you generally feel connected to your child? Do you feel that you have a handle on why your child behaves the way he or she does and can anticipate the undesirable behaviors before they begin? Do you know what triggers undesirable behaviors and what fosters desirable ones? Do you see signs that your child feels close to you: eye contact, approaching you, putting his arms around you, wanting to be picked up, enjoying being with you, and being able to communicate with you? If this is true, *then an occasional spanking is unlikely to harm your relationship.* Determine where spanking fits in your overall discipline package. Don't spank in anger. When you are angry, you are likely to spank too hard because you are out of control. (Seeing you out of control traumatizes them as much as the spanking.) Spanking in anger leaves the wrong impression on children's minds. They may be so bothered by the anger in your eyes and face that they don't realize the *reason or the justification* for the spanking. As a result, the punishment has no teaching value. 6. Explain the spank. In fact, studies have shown that *calm* spanking preceded by a rational explanation does less harm and *more good* than spanking without such reasoning. Explaining the punishment can be therapeutic for both the spanker and the spankee."

How are Sears' instructions different from Dobson, who states: "Spanking...should be used only for specific, purposeful misbehavior and should never be done in anger. As with other techniques, spanking should be used as one of many discipline tools." And, "I think it is very important after punishment to embrace the child in love. That is the time to assure her that it was the misbehavior that brought your disapproval, rather than your dislike for her personally. It is also the best time to talk about why she got in trouble and how she can avoid your displeasure in the future. It is the "teachable moment," when the object of your discipline can be explained."? http://www.focusonyourchild.com/deve.../A0000188.html

Or the Pearls, who write: "The spankings we give our children do not resemble punishment. We are not angry. We don't lose control. We are not desirous to make children suffer for their misdeeds. Application of the rod is only a small but essential part of our training technique." and "If you are motivated by anger, wait until you calm down. Put the child in a room to wait until you are motivated by your head, not your anger." And, "The rod assures the child of his parent's love." http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.ph...bc26&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=88&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12

It's not different. The only thing that's different is that Sears is a self-proclaimed proponent of AP and the others are not. So, because just about everything else Sears says is AP, we should overlook the fact that he believes it is possible to hit children in a way that doesn't harm them?

Not in my book.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
Think about it this way---if someone was an abuser reading his book and didn't accept his stance on no spanking, they would continue to hurt their child. On the other hand, if they saw the section for parents who continued to abuse their kids, they might at least do it less harshly---the lesser of two evils, so to speak. Just because he gave an outline on how to spank more humanely doesn't mean it encourages spanking, it all depends on your interpretation. Don't forget that after that part, he goes into a lengthy chapter on alternatives to spanking. I have been using this chapter in The Discipline Book with great success----SPANK FREE for two weeks now, and I won't start spanking ever again.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point of his spanking description---we see two sides of the same coin, huh?









But he *DOESN'T* have a no spanking stance.

And, parents who hit their children with Sears' instructions *ARE* continuing to hurt their child.

No, we don't see two sides of the same coin. You and Sears believe it is possible to spank "humanely" *and I, in no uncertain terms, do not*.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I agree that in Qtopia's bolded statements, his statements definitely appeart to uphold the use of physical punishment. And if not, if the book's directions aren't specifically upholding or advocating for spanking in the reader's mind b/c of his "disclaimers," Sears's stance _at least_ lends "expert" justification in the minds of parents who are either already spanking or are newly exposed to GD through his "Gateway Drug" Sears empire







:

Just my .02


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

I approve of his philosophy, but I didn't find his advice very helpful. His books left me *totally* unprepared for dealing with a wiggly baby who preferred lying on the floor or riding in the stroller to being held or carried in a sling. He tells parents over and over and over again to pick up their babies when they cry, but never says what to do if holding them doesn't help. I greatly prefer Penelope Leach to Dr. Sears now.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

In my opinion there IS a lesser of two evils. Yah shure they are both evil but believe you me.....I would have LOTS rather been spanked like Dr. Sears' advice then the type of spanking I had growing up.

I also want to add that as a parent who has sometimes used spanking AND WANTS TO STOP some of you scare me away. I have tried to read the GD form a few times and the tone scares me away.


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlec*
Uh, he could say that intact genitals are a birthrite.

















:

The circ info in the new edition of The Baby Book is better, but stops short of saying that a baby boy deserves to keep his whole body. It's hard to make that total paradigm shift and see circ. for what it truly is instead of what the medical establishment/American culture has brainwashed us into believing. I love The Baby Book, though. It validated our parenting instincts and made us way more confident.

We've also gotten a lot out of The Nighttime Parenting Book (esp. good for dh) and The Fussy Baby Book (which helped me have a positive attitude towards high-needs dd).


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bradleybirth2mom*
Well, he should have reworded it to say if father's don't show enough affection to their boys, it might cause them to find that affection from another male figure since they are missing that in their lives. While that sounds homophobic, that is a situation in someone I know personally---the Dad flatly ignored his son and was just a breadwinner, and the son is a homosexual. It is a possibility, and I don't think it is wrong to point out that possibility, but it shouldn't be put in such terms to suggest that it will certainly happen---this creates controversy. We do recognize that when Dads don't show affection and attention to their girls, it causes them to look for that in other men. I believe this because I see it in relatives and friends that I know.

No. Just, no. I think you are completely and utterly wrong. Just because the sun rises after my alarm clock goes off does not mean my alarm going off causes the sun to rise, and in fact there is considerable scientific evidence to the contrary. I consider that a very heterosexist remark, and I am offended. Parenting has absolutely nothing to do with a child's sexuality, period.

I obviously don't have the right not to be offended. But I wanted to tell you my reaction to your post.

And saying that poor parenting influences heterosexual daughters in making poor decisions about their male partners is a far cry from saying that same parenting will turn a son gay. Sexuality does not work that way.

Saying poor parenting could influence a homosexual or bisexual son in making poor decisions about their male partners and other life choices, I would and do believe, considering the number of queer children of "homosexuality is a choice or a result of something we did wrong" thinking parents who wind up commiting suicide or running to the streets or having unsafe sex with much older partners. But make them gay? No.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

if it wasnt for him, i wouldnt be an ap, gd mama..........he opened my eyes to things, and really made me kick myself in the butt about never attending LLL, so i started going and then got a copy of mothering, then came on here and learnt a whole lot more.

i guess everyone can find minor points to disagree with him on..but he still is a practising ped KWIM.


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

Quote:

Parenting has absolutely nothing to do with a child's sexuality, period.
I agree completely.

Quote:

I have tried to read the GD form a few times and the tone scares me away.
This happens to me in various forums on Mothering sometimes, too.







I think sometimes I just have to step back and remember that theory is one thing and the daily parenting of our own children is something else altogether. When I was pregnant I had ideas that got modified once I met my daughter. Nothing works for everyone! (eta I didn't mean for this statement to be construed to sound like I advocate spanking. FWIW, I definitely do not. I just mean that there's not _one_ right way to parent.)

I'm chiming in on the spanking debate but I don't have the time to go back and re-read all the posts, nor to open up my Baby Book and review it. So I'm just going on theory here... However, I'm leaning towards the idea that he's trying to make parents who spank feel comfortable reading about why spanking is bad. If you started to read a book and the first thing it said was "You're wrong in your beliefs", you'd probably put it down after the first paragraph! So, I think his method may well be very effective in helping people not feel guilty about their former parenting but still feel comfortable changing it, you know? I love to hear about people's success stories of learning how not to spank!!! That said, I totally see where both sides of this debate are coming from...
Thanks for an interesting poll and also an educational discussion, ladies!


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I don't think he's saying that spanking is okay; there are several other passages in which he states his anti-spanking stance. What he is saying is that spanking does not damage a child. Which is true. But, of course, just because something doesn't damage someone doesn't make it okay. I don't think that anyone who read Sears's writings on discipline in context would come away thinking that he was pro-spanking. It is the same with circ I think. In the 1993 "Baby Book" he makes it very clear that there is no medical reason for it, argues against some of the common justifications (like locker-room comparisons), and emphasizes the pain of the procedure, which a lot of books don't. I think saying that a medical procedure should be illegal is a bit beyond the scope of a parenting book.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that fathers should provide a positive role model of masculinity, just as mothers should provide a positive role model of femininity. But I can see how some would disagree.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel*
I approve of his philosophy, but I didn't find his advice very helpful. His books left me *totally* unprepared for dealing with a wiggly baby who preferred lying on the floor or riding in the stroller to being held or carried in a sling. He tells parents over and over and over again to pick up their babies when they cry, but never says what to do if holding them doesn't help. I greatly prefer Penelope Leach to Dr. Sears now.

This reminded me of another thing I disagreed with Sears about (or maybe I just didn't understand), but although he did write some in "The Baby Book" about how not all babies like to be carried, etc., he also suggested that parents should sometimes forcibly carry unwilling babies to teach them "attachment-promoting behaviors." That doesn't seem respectful to me at all. Children have naturally different temperments, and I don't think it's fair to imply that babies who would rather sit on the floor or ride in the stroller than be carried are any less attached to their parents. I think attempting to "teach" an unwilling child to be "attached" is no better than trying to teach an unwilling child to be "independent."

ETA: Yes, Penelope Leach is better about this, although she isn't 100% gd either.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

i agree, and pookel, i do remember reading in the fussy baby book or raising your high needs child (cant remember which) where he talks about babys who dont respond to the typical ap methods, and advises you to go with the childs flow....if they like and want to be on the floor, then let them, but stay close etc. I'm pretty sure, but don't quote me on it, that he tell a RL story about one of his kids (the downs syndrome one I belive) who didn't like to be held much.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

He's a good influence towards becoming AP from what I've read of his books and this thread (not nearly all his books, but this entire thread), but I completely agree that he should be more anti-circ. (Religious circ aside) there is absolutely NOTHING about infant circumcision - male or female - that can be resolved with AP parenting period. Any AP parent who researched the matter would not circ. An AP parent who didn't research the matter could circ out of ignorance/pressure from family and medical personnel, but knowingly circ? I think not.

I disagree with his take on vaxes. I agree that his method of explaining why spanking is wrong and "how to spank gently" is meant to keep pro-spankers reading his book and can't fault him for trying to get them on the GD side. I didn't notice any homophobia while reading his books but disagree with him about the comments that have been quoted in this thread regarding parenting having anything to do with sexual orientation.

I would definitely give his book to others, but would explain what I disagree with and why.

love and peace.


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## jesuslovinmamaof3 (Jun 10, 2006)

I havent seen anyone in here mention his Christian Parenting & Child Care book which is the first book I have read from him..and LOVE it. So I will reply with what he says on certain subjects from this book.

On the circ debate: He goes through the Biblical basis for circ, and why Chrisitans do NOT need to circ their babies now (really wish I had read this before my sons circ







) "Whether or not your newborn son should be circumcised is your decision to make. It is an issue you need to consider carefully, with thought, prayer and discussion between both parents," (106).

No, he doesnt make a strong statement against circ, but he does inform the parents about the procedure, the pain of the procedure, how it isnt a necassary procedure. He really makes it unappealing for any parent to put their boy through it. But he totally leaves the decision up to the parent, though you can tell that he is against it. But for those Christian parents who are strongly for circ, he makes sure that they know how to care for the circ penis.

As for spanking/discipline he is a Christian, and one of the big debates on parenting for Christians is whether or not to spank. Some take the verse "Do not withold discipline from a child, If you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod, and save his soul from death" Proverbs 23:13-14. Some Christian parents take the ROD to mean beat/or spank. What dr. Sears has said is that there is a debate over it, spanking or striking out against your child goes against everything in the Bible. But for those parents who MUST or feel that it is their godly duty to spank, dont just strike out, do it with love and show them why. He states that he did both, he spanked at first, but then through prayer and finding what worked, they stopped spanking. In my opinion he is not saying spanking is right, but for the parents that must, he is saying that if you must there is a more "loving" way.

But like I said before, I really love all he has to say. He talks about natural child birth w/o meds and how it is the way God intended, he talks about AP as the way God intended a mother to care for her baby. I agree with it.


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that fathers should provide a positive role model of masculinity, just as mothers should provide a positive role model of femininity.

Nor do I, and I would be pleased if he made the argument that fathers can and should be involved, tender, loving parents without an appeal to homophobia, but parents' modeling of femininity or masculinity have NOTHING to do with a child's sexuality (or gender identity, for that matter, although it can influence how that identity is expressed), and the statement or suggestion that it does I find both incorrect and offensive.

I don't hate Sears. I don't like him much, and I can't entirely respect him the way I can other people I disagree with, but he helps some people move toward a more loving, gentle, attached relationship with their child(ren), and for that I'm extremely glad.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arwyn*
Nor do I, and I would be pleased if he made the argument that fathers can and should be involved, tender, loving parents without an appeal to homophobia, but parents' modeling of femininity or masculinity have NOTHING to do with a child's sexuality (or gender identity, for that matter, although it can influence how that identity is expressed), and the statement or suggestion that it does I find both incorrect and offensive.

I don't hate Sears. I don't like him much, and I can't entirely respect him the way I can other people I disagree with, but he helps some people move toward a more loving, gentle, attached relationship with their child(ren), and for that I'm extremely glad.

From the excerpt here it didn't sound like he was appealing to "homophobia," but just saying that boys need a strong male role model to learn how to be masculine. Sexuality wasn't mentioned (of course it might have been mentioned in the book, which I haven't read, but not in the part posted on this thread).

It's true that parenting doesn't have much effect on sexual preference, although it could have an effect on sexual choices.

Why do you respect Sears less than other people you disagree with?


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

"Well, he should have reworded it to say if father's don't show enough affection to their boys, it might cause them to find that affection from another male figure since they are missing that in their lives. While that sounds homophobic, that is a situation in someone I know personally---the Dad flatly ignored his son and was just a breadwinner, and the son is a homosexual. It is a possibility, and I don't think it is wrong to point out that possibility."

No, it is NOT a possibility. Sexual orientation is a reality of one's personality, not something one chooses or is influenced into.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

"What he is saying is that spanking does not damage a child. Which is true."

No, it's NOT true. Let's please remember that in this forum we are not to advocate violence against children, and we are by extension not to advance the arguments of "experts" that that violence "does not damage a child." The whole reason we reject the violence is that it IS harmful, to parents and especially to children.

Oh and to the poster who wants to stop spanking and is scared off by the forum tone -- please don't let it scare you. No one is going to tone down their passionate defense of children, but that doesn't mean anything negative against parents who lay down the violence we are told we must use. WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE. You can do it. Next time it comes up, feel us supporting you and just . . . don't hit. You want to stop, your children want you to stop, and you can do it.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie*
"What he is saying is that spanking does not damage a child. Which is true."

No, it's NOT true. Let's please remember that in this forum we are not to advocate violence against children, and we are by extension not to advance the arguments of "experts" that that violence "does not damage a child." The whole reason we reject the violence is that it IS harmful, to parents and especially to children.

Respectfully, did you read the rest of what I wrote? I'm not advocating violence against children. And I don't trust "experts" regardless. I am anti-spanking. It is a violation of children's natural rights. However it does not (usually) damage a child. There is a difference. You can be anti-spanking without buying into the idea advanced by so many gd people that a spanked child is damaged goods.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

I don't think the child is "goods" of any kind. I said spanking damages. Spanking harms. Just because one can be fixed does not mean the harming did not occur.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

I had one of his books and I found it really sexist. I was a new mom then and his was the only book I had. I think I just happened upon it at a thrift store without knowing who he was at all. I liked the tone and I liked the concept of Attachement Parenting. It resonated with my desire to be that type of parent and validated those ideas to some extent. But he puts WAY too much pressure on the mother, (_Creative Parenting_). He has a tiny discouraging section about daycare. I got some good little tips but I've never considered him Guru material. Since then, I've read more and found him to be rather homophobic and straight-edge, which I find very offputting.


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## eightyferrettoes (May 22, 2005)

I always found him excessively focused on what the MOM has to do, which struck me as odd coming from the father of eight. He gives a lot of lip service to the importance of involved fathering, but his little stories and examples seem to focus on _mom's_ shortcomings and how _she_ needs to reprioritize and reconnect with her child.

Kind of rigid gender-role modeling, from my point of view. It's not surprising to me that he's parroting some of Dobson's same lines, hinting about fatherly involvement preventing sons from dressing up in sequins in Manhattan by the time they're 16.
















Sears is just smart enough to appeal to that motive in a less blatant fashion than ol' Dobson. He knows how to be just vaguely coded enough to appeal to the fundie crowd without immediately turning off the rest of his readers, which I think is part of why his books read to me like big-party political brochures. He's trying to inoffensively straddle as many camps as possible.

Of COURSE the prose is gonna suffer the effects of him and his editors trying to please such a politically and religiously diverse audience. Of COURSE there will be things that are "unclear--" he writes some of this stuff in a way that is, I think, intentionally vague.

I bought the Discipline Book a few months ago, and I can't drag myself to finish reading such a repetitive bunch of pabulum. blah, blah blah.

That, plus the wishy-washiness on circumcision, are reason enough not to get all fired up about Sears.


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## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SneakyPie*
"What he is saying is that spanking does not damage a child. Which is true."

No, it's NOT true. Let's please remember that in this forum we are not to advocate violence against children, and we are by extension not to advance the arguments of "experts" that that violence "does not damage a child." The whole reason we reject the violence is that it IS harmful, to parents and especially to children.

Oh and to the poster who wants to stop spanking and is scared off by the forum tone -- please don't let it scare you. No one is going to tone down their passionate defense of children, but that doesn't mean anything negative against parents who lay down the violence we are told we must use. WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE. You can do it. Next time it comes up, feel us supporting you and just . . . don't hit. You want to stop, your children want you to stop, and you can do it.

It'll probably come as no surprise (considering my other posts in this thread) that I agree with you 100%, SneakyPie.

Honestly, I am stumped and horrified. If people believe that hitting is NOT harmful, then how can you be "anti"spanking? If spanking is NOT harmful, then why should we care if parents hit their children or not? If spanking is NOT harmful, then why should we advocate GD as "better"? It just doesn't make sense.

And IMO, no, it's not possible to believe in GD and also believe that hitting is not harmful. That's just illogical.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Let me clarify---I do not believe that such a father-son situation will 'make someone gay', as I attempted to explain in my post. I do believe that a lack of affection between either a father and son or a father and daughter MIGHT cause them to seek it out in ways that might be unhealthy or unwise. The low-nurturing dad thing is certainly not a guarantee of this behavior, it just increases the chances of it in my opinion, just as it might cause any generalized side-effect in the child's way of attaching to male-figures. On the same token, I do believe that children make choices irrespective of the way they were raised and are not 'destined' by their environment, but environment does play a part. The same damage could occur when mom is not nurturing, either----it is all a possibility, but never a guarantee. I know better than to talk in absolutes in predicting a child's outcome----that would be arrogant, don't you think?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arwyn*
No. Just, no. I think you are completely and utterly wrong. Just because the sun rises after my alarm clock goes off does not mean my alarm going off causes the sun to rise, and in fact there is considerable scientific evidence to the contrary. I consider that a very heterosexist remark, and I am offended. Parenting has absolutely nothing to do with a child's sexuality, period.

I obviously don't have the right not to be offended. But I wanted to tell you my reaction to your post.

And saying that poor parenting influences heterosexual daughters in making poor decisions about their male partners is a far cry from saying that same parenting will turn a son gay. Sexuality does not work that way.

Saying poor parenting could influence a homosexual or bisexual son in making poor decisions about their male partners and other life choices, I would and do believe, considering the number of queer children of "homosexuality is a choice or a result of something we did wrong" thinking parents who wind up commiting suicide or running to the streets or having unsafe sex with much older partners. But make them gay? No.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Wow--are you a journalist or something? Very well-written, intriguing and entertaining.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eightyferrettoes*
I always found him excessively focused on what the MOM has to do, which struck me as odd coming from the father of eight. He gives a lot of lip service to the importance of involved fathering, but his little stories and examples seem to focus on _mom's_ shortcomings and how _she_ needs to reprioritize and reconnect with her child.

Kind of rigid gender-role modeling, from my point of view. It's not surprising to me that he's parroting some of Dobson's same lines, hinting about fatherly involvement preventing sons from dressing up in sequins in Manhattan by the time they're 16.
















Sears is just smart enough to appeal to that motive in a less blatant fashion than ol' Dobson. He knows how to be just vaguely coded enough to appeal to the fundie crowd without immediately turning off the rest of his readers, which I think is part of why his books read to me like big-party political brochures. He's trying to inoffensively straddle as many camps as possible.

Of COURSE the prose is gonna suffer the effects of him and his editors trying to please such a politically and religiously diverse audience. Of COURSE there will be things that are "unclear--" he writes some of this stuff in a way that is, I think, intentionally vague.

I bought the Discipline Book a few months ago, and I can't drag myself to finish reading such a repetitive bunch of pabulum. blah, blah blah.

That, plus the wishy-washiness on circumcision, are reason enough not to get all fired up about Sears.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Don't worry about the tone we have---everyone rises to the occasion when defending their stance---it's nothing to be afraid of. Just send a private message to someone you can relate to if you don't want public criticism. Otherwise, don't be turned off---it's really just debate, although sometimes it sounds condemning to other views.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candipooh*
In my opinion there IS a lesser of two evils. Yah shure they are both evil but believe you me.....I would have LOTS rather been spanked like Dr. Sears' advice then the type of spanking I had growing up.

I also want to add that as a parent who has sometimes used spanking AND WANTS TO STOP some of you scare me away. I have tried to read the GD form a few times and the tone scares me away.


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## ntengwall (Feb 21, 2003)

About the spanking---I'm not going to go into the whole violence against children thing (and it IS violence), but I will ask those people who spank to think of it like this--

What would you think if every time your husband got angry with you (maybe you spent to much $$ that week shopping or maybe you accidentally ruined his favorite shirt in the laundry ...) he hit you. Would that be ok with you? Do you think you would "learn your lesson" by getting hit or smacked? Would it make you respect him more or would it cause you to fear him?

Whenever I am unsure of how to react to something my boys do, I *always* try to put myself in their shoes. Just like letting a baby cry it out. If I were upset, would I want my hubby or best friend to just let me sit in a corner and cry my heart out without hugging me or consoling me? Would it make me more independent if they did ignore me? Of course not...it would make me sad and maybe even angry.

In the end, it's all about respect. We MUST respect our children if we want them to respect us. They are not a sub-human life form and the same rules that apply to us should always apply to them. If an adult hitting another adult is a crime and unacceptable, then it too should be totally unacceptable to do the same to a child. Even more so since they are helpless and depend on us to do the right thing!

About Dr Sears...I think Dr Sears is useful for opening the minds of more mainstream parents, but I am also offended that he sold out to the formula companies awhile back.

I LOVE Dr Jay Gordon and highly recommend both of his books and his website to my couples.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jesuslovinmamaof3*
So I talked to a couple of home-schooling moms at church, and they recommended the discipline books by The Pearls. I believed what they were saying at first, that to spank a child was what is written in the Bible. To discipline with the "rod". So yes, I tried it, but after reading more and more, I became disgusted. The Pearls wrote about "switching" 10-20 times for first time offenses. Well, once again, we were without any form of discipline in our home, and my daughter was acting up worse than before because of the "rod".

I can see a pattern between the Ezzo and Pearl style---they do schedules and number spankings to make the parent feel they have a sense of control without talking any real sense at all. This is a recurrent red flag---any style that doesn't encourage the parent to use their good judgement sometimes is just asking for trouble with what happens to the child and their relationship with the parent.


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ntengwall*
I LOVE Dr Jay Gordon and highly recommend both of his books and his website to my couples.

What are they titled?


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

The controversy with the Leviticus scripture is that mandating the Mosaic law is not part of the new covenant God made with his people when Jesus died on the cross for our sins. This means that some things are no longer applicable, and we have to use wisdom to discern that. For example, we still follow the Ten Commandments because that's God's law but obviously we offend people by burning a bull and that is no longer something that is inoffensive in our society. I'm not saying pick and choose at random, I'm saying that following Mosaic law at the expense of hurting others is not what Jesus taught. In fact, when the Pharisees tried to pin Jesus down with breaking the law of working on the Sabbath, he rebukes them since he is doing what is right for God at the time. See the following link for clarification: http://www.daytonavisit.com/sabbath/topic104.htm
They totally miss the point of the law, which was to keep the Sabbath a holy day for God and to not do your own personal agenda and neglect worshipping Him. The article below misses the points of the laws as well, such as interpreting the sacrifice literally, as if everyone had a bull to kill as tribute to God. We use money now. I could go on with each one, but the laws are followed according to the tradition and culture of the civilization, even to this day. Some of them were made to protect the people, such as the shellfish one---they didn't know that eating a dead lobster could kill you since it produces toxins almost immediately after dying. The bottom line is---the tone of the article below is either mocking or the author is ignorant of the fact that Mosaic law is interpreted differently than it suggests. And I looked into the 'rod' verses, too---the rod is used to guide sheep, not habitually beat them. After all, how do you get sheep to follow you if they are afraid of their shepherd? We must do things to promote obedience through respect, not fear, in our children, which is why we all reject Ezzo and Pearl, among others. I agree with you on spanking, but there isn't wisdom in the article below---it is just someone looking for answers or entertainment.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ntengwall*
The thing that makes me mad about the whole "Spare the rod" stuff is that these parents decide to follow that specific scripture but then neglect to follow all the others that seem silly or just plain wrong. If you are going to quote the bible and say that you are spanking because it's written there, then please follow all the other scriptures as well! You can't pick and choose if you are saying that you must follow it because the bible says so. Here is one of my favorite articles that deals with this same situation:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When people try to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them:

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9).The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24).The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


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## cfiddlinmama (May 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ntengwall*
About the spanking---I'm not going to go into the whole violence against children thing (and it IS violence), but I will ask those people who spank to think of it like this--

What would you think if every time your husband got angry with you (maybe you spent to much $$ that week shopping or maybe you accidentally ruined his favorite shirt in the laundry ...) he hit you. Would that be ok with you? Do you think you would "learn your lesson" by getting hit or smacked? Would it make you respect him more or would it cause you to fear him?

Whenever I am unsure of how to react to something my boys do, I *always* try to put myself in their shoes. Just like letting a baby cry it out. If I were upset, would I want my hubby or best friend to just let me sit in a corner and cry my heart out without hugging me or consoling me? Would it make me more independent if they did ignore me? Of course not...it would make me sad and maybe even angry.

In the end, it's all about respect. We MUST respect our children if we want them to respect us. They are not a sub-human life form and the same rules that apply to us should always apply to them. If an adult hitting another adult is a crime and unacceptable, then it too should be totally unacceptable to do the same to a child. Even more so since they are helpless and depend on us to do the right thing!


Thank you for this! This is exactly the conclusion I have come to. Why are people so much more understanding of adults than children? Last night I showed my husband some of the articles in the stickies and left him alone to read them. We than had a very good talk. We both cried a lot about how we've hurt our children and bought into the lies our parents taught us.(We never went to nearly the extremes of the Pearls etc, just "regular" spanking. Puke, Bleck... ) It is so wonderful to have him coming around to the conclusions I've come too. Now we just have to learn what to do instead.

I too was afraid to come into the GD forum. It seemed like way too much extremism to me. (You mean time outs are bad







: I can't handle this.





















I finally got up the courage, and I'm so glad I did. I'll try not to get my feelings hurt and please help me in my journey!


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## bradleybirth2mom (Apr 21, 2006)

I change my vote to the second choice after having been educated by you mamas. Thanks!


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## ntengwall (Feb 21, 2003)

Dr Gordon's books are called, "Listening to Your Baby: A New Approach to Parenting Your Newborn" and "Good Nights: The Happy Parent's Guide to the Family Bed (and a Good Night's Sleep). Here's the link to them on Amazon-
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039...lance&n=283155

I think it's funny that he had to say that "listening to your baby" is a new approach to parenting, but I think that's what you have to do to sell books to the mainstream--make them think that it's something new and special









BTW--his website is awesome with TONS of good info about all things AP. Noah Wylie (from ER) is even on there talking about how they practice AP with their child







I knew I thought he was so cute for a reason







www.drjaygordon.com


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

There is some really helpful and interesting discussion in this thread, however, the topics of homosexuality, circumcision and religion are inappropriately posted in this forum.

In an effort to keep any discussions in this forum about *Gentle Discipline*, I am closing this thread. Please feel free to spin-off any areas of discussion relevent to _*Gentle Discipline*_ in new threads







! I apologize for any inconvenience.

*Please also note that it is inappropriate to advocate or uphold or minimize the effects of the use of physical punishment within this forum.* From the forum guidelines:

Quote:

Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children. Personal preferences for and encouragement of use of physical punishment are inappropriately posted here. Posts of that nature will be edited by the member upon request or will be removed.


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