# Do you think this is fair?



## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Do you think that kids who are having a birthday party should hand-out their invitations in the classroom?

My daughter is currently in the 6th grade, and even though she has a summer b-day, I would never think to give only the "select" few an invitation during class time.

As far as I remember, our school policy has been that unless you invite the entire class, the invitations have to be mailed, hand delivered and so forth.
Of course, not all parents abide by this rule!







:

I personally feel this is very rude and insensitive on the parent's part.


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## Mighty Jalapeno (Oct 27, 2006)

Can't see why it's a big problem. Happened all the time when I was in school. If you aren't in that person's clique, you shouldn't be expecting an invitation, right?


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

It's not fair, but it's life.

I was uninvited to a friends birthday party in 5th grade because my chicken pox scars were ugly.


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## sophiesgrandma (Jun 22, 2006)

NO-I don't think it's fair at all and I am totally against it. Invite the entire class or mail out the invites. This is such a preventable way of unneccessarily hurting someones feelings. It is absolutely avoidable. I would talk to the teacher about it and perhaps the principal if nothing is done.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

i don't see it as that much of a problem. i didn't realize how strongly other parents (eh hem, OP







) felt about it. i do this with my ds ~~ when there are invitations to be handed out, it's NOT for the entire class (get real!!)... only to a select few. and i don't think mailing is realistic because come on, how are you going to get all the other kids' mailing addresses??


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## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

I have sent invitation with my dc #1 to school, which were intended for a few kids in his class. I specifically told him to give them to his friends discretly and before or after school (not during class), so as to not make a big production and potentially hurt someone's feelings. I don't have family's addresses.


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## Lambsauce (Nov 13, 2006)

Perhaps it isn't really "fair", but I don't remember ever having my feelings hurt because I wasn't invited to someone's birthday party. Especially not for some kid in my class who was far removed from my own little group of friends.
Now, if, say, my dd had ten friends in her class and I only allowed her to invite five, then I think it would be totally unfair for her to hand out the invites in class. You can have a lot of hurt feelings that escalate into very messy situations that way.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Most decent public schools do not allow this. A directory is published so you can send invites to a child's home. No need to cause hurt feelings at school.


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## ombra*luna (May 1, 2003)

The elementary school and preschools that my kids have attended don't allow invitations to be distributed at school unless you're inviting either the entire class, or everyone of the same gender as the birthday child.

I think it's a good rule.


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## oldcrunchymom (Jun 26, 2002)

I'm sorry, but I think 12 year olds should be able to deal with the fact that not everyone is going to get invited to every party. I really don't see anything wrong with handing out invites in a classroom unless it's interfering with lesson time.







The girls at my daughter's dance studio hand out party invitations all the time--same thing, really, as they are certainly not inviting every girl in every one of their classes to every party.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd never even heard of the "invite everyone" rule until I came here, and I don't agree with it. I don't even agree with it for little kids, and I certainly don't agree with it for 12-year-olds.

I'm also not sure how it's supposed to prevent hurt feelings, either. Is there also a "don't talk about the party on school grounds" rule?


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## teastaigh (Dec 17, 2001)

It's rude.
It's bad manners.

By the way, adults do it all the time. I can't believe how these people talk about their BBQs or their girls-nights-outs in front of others on a regular basis. Presumedly "nice" and "socially well-adjusted" people have insider-conversations, excluding whomever else is in attendance and doesn't know the absent parties under discussion, etc.

It's also impolite to eat in front of others unless we have enough to share with everyone. I'm not talking about brown-bag lunch meetings at work. I'm talking about eating in class.

I was always taught not to discuss plans in front of anyone who wasn't included. I saw my parents model this too.

My dad says that a truly classy person makes other people feel comfortable. Good manners are not to be taken lightly. I know I can work on my own and need reminders and improvement too.

peace,
teastaigh


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## enkmom (Aug 30, 2004)

I am firmly in the "It's rude" camp.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ombra*luna* 
The elementary school and preschools that my kids have attended don't allow invitations to be distributed at school unless you're inviting either the entire class, or everyone of the same gender as the birthday child.

I think it's a good rule.

Sure for elementary kids but 6th grade is middle school. They don't even have a "class" any more. It wasn't a big deal to me when I was in middle school to be aware that other people who I wasn't friends with had parties.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Preteens are usually pulling away from their parents and clinging more to their peers. This is the time when they care most about fitting in, about getting the invite to that party, joining the club. I don't think it's fair for the invites to be handed out in class. I think if a child brings the invites to school and discreetly hands them out throughout the day as she meets her friends, say between classes or in the bathroom, at lockers, etc., that is fine...but I don't think handing them out in class, in front of everyone, so everyone sees who is and isn't invited, is very fair.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

The rule at our school is everyone in the class or everyone of the gender. My daughter handed out invitations for her party to all the girls in her 4th grade class b/c she wanted a girl's only party this year.

My crew have been to two elementary schools and we have never had directories before.

As far as middle school goes.....I don't see the problem. I wouldn't see why someone would be expected to invite kids they don't 'hang out' with to a party.

My daughter wanted to exclude a couple of the girls in her class b/c they are mean to her or don't play with her ever. I told no. I also told her the girls probably wouldn't even come if they don't play with her typically anyway. She gave invites to all eight girls.

IMO the discrete idea doesn't really work either b/c the kids who got the invitations will probably ask others if they are going to the party.


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## shanagirl (Oct 24, 2005)

I agree it's rude. I think some people are misunderstanding your post-- you are not asking if everyone has to be invited --just if you are only inviting some girls from a class, you should give them invitations privately, not in class. This is just basic manners. If I give a party and invite some of my friends from work, I NEVER invite them in front of people at work I'm not inviting. If I have a bunch of friends over for a party and a few of us want to get together for something else a few weeks later, we don't bring it up in front of people we're not inviting. Why would we teach our kids any different? This is basic courtesy.

And anyone on these boards has internet access so looking up addresses should be no problem. A sixth grader could do it, and as far as I can tell, kids love getting real postal mail if it's interesting. What's so hard about mailing them if you are preparing an invitation?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teastaigh* 
It's rude.
It's bad manners.

By the way, adults do it all the time. I can't believe how these people talk about their BBQs or their girls-nights-outs in front of others on a regular basis. Presumedly "nice" and "socially well-adjusted" people have insider-conversations, excluding whomever else is in attendance and doesn't know the absent parties under discussion, etc.

So, in order to discuss an outing, everyone should have to do a head count, to confirm that everyone currently present was in attendance at the outing? What about at work - say in a lunch room? If someone is sitting at a table having lunch, can a group at the next table talk about going out for drinks after work the week before, or is that rude?

I've never heard anyone suggest that this is rude before. I'm boggled. Honestly - a lot of my local MDC moms have known each other for several years, and if they held their conversation to what us "newbies" know about, they'd hardly be able to talk. Following that rule, I doubt they'd have expanded their group to include us at all...and I wouldn't blame them.

If the whole idea is to make others feel comfortable, then you need to know what others are comfortable with. If people never talked about anything they did when I wasn't around, I'd know they were holding back...and that would make me more uncomfortable than hearing about their outings.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanagirl* 
I agree it's rude. I think some people are misunderstanding your post-- you are not asking if everyone has to be invited --just if you are only inviting some girls from a class, you should give them invitations privately, not in class. This is just basic manners. If I give a party and invite some of my friends from work, I NEVER invite them in front of people at work I'm not inviting. If I have a bunch of friends over for a party and a few of us want to get together for something else a few weeks later, we don't bring it up in front of people we're not inviting. Why would we teach our kids any different? This is basic courtesy.

I'd feel absolutely weird if someone at work invited me to a party or something...just weird. As for someone else being invited in front of me - why not? If I have co-workers who go out for lunch together and leave work together and are obviously friends as well as co-workers, why would I expect to be invited to social events with them? I also can't imagine how awful I'd have felt getting an invitation to a party from someone who wasn't my friend, just because I happened to be in their class.

Quote:

And anyone on these boards has internet access so looking up addresses should be no problem. A sixth grader could do it, and as far as I can tell, kids love getting real postal mail if it's interesting. What's so hard about mailing them if you are preparing an invitation?
What if you're _not_ on these boards, and don't have internet access? What if you can't afford postage? What if you're so broke that you're not sure you're even going to be able to have the party until it's too late to use the mail? (Yes - I have been in this situation.) We're not talking about rules that only apply to people with PCs and internet access.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I would never send my kids to school with invites for only a few kids. They would get mailed or delivered after school hours.


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## anubis (Oct 6, 2006)

When I went to school, kids would hand out invitations on the breaks to the kids they were friends with. It never seemed to lead to anyone feeling left out, but it did sometimes go in the other direction a bit. I remember 'having to' invite a very unpleasant girl to a birthday party because the girl she was best friends with was coming. No one actually told me to invite her but it seemed rude to me not to. Well, she came over and b*tched and moaned about everything and was not invited the next year. So, if anything, I'd say in most cases that I'm aware of it led to unwanted INclusion instead of feeling excluded. I was invited to a lot of birthday parties I didn't really even want to go to myself.

That said, I think it's fine for kids to invite friends to birthday parties at school. I think of it as an opportunity to learn discretion and diplomacy. I know I learned to not hand out invitations in front of kids who weren't invited, as well as decline invitations without hurting anyone's feelings.

I'd give kids some credit there, they usually don't want to hurt other kids' feelings. I'm not generally in favour of banning something because it could potentially upset someone.


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## operamommy (Nov 9, 2004)

Our school doesn't hand out directories. The thought of someone having to get that together every single year for 700+ kids, plus the expense, is just mind-boggling.

I don't know if I would use the term "fair" in answer to the OP's question. Life isn't fair, and kids know that waaaay before 6th grade. But I'd say that perhaps some parents have been about lax in helping their children learn the politest way to handle invites. I'd encourage my child to hand them out before school if possible, but I'd be truly surprised if my 6th grader's feelings were hurt because he didn't get an invitation passed out during class time. Most likely the reason he's not getting invited is that the kid isn't his friend anyway, kwim?

My dd, who's in the 2nd grade, talked about the birthday party of one of the girls in her class that she didn't get invited to and seemed to not have an issue with invites being passed out. The girl having the party wasn't a friend, so dd didn't mind at all.


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
Most decent public schools do not allow this. A directory is published so you can send invites to a child's home. No need to cause hurt feelings at school.

Our school does publish a directory each and every year. By the way, that is a good point!


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
Sure for elementary kids but 6th grade is middle school. They don't even have a "class" any more. It wasn't a big deal to me when I was in middle school to be aware that other people who I wasn't friends with had parties.









Sorry, I failed to mention, here, where we live, 6th grade is still housed in the elementary schools...7th and 8th grade is middle school for us.


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shanagirl* 
I agree it's rude. I think some people are misunderstanding your post-- you are not asking if everyone has to be invited --just if you are only inviting some girls from a class, you should give them invitations privately, not in class. This is just basic manners. If I give a party and invite some of my friends from work, I NEVER invite them in front of people at work I'm not inviting. If I have a bunch of friends over for a party and a few of us want to get together for something else a few weeks later, we don't bring it up in front of people we're not inviting. Why would we teach our kids any different? This is basic courtesy.

And anyone on these boards has internet access so looking up addresses should be no problem. A sixth grader could do it, and as far as I can tell, kids love getting real postal mail if it's interesting. What's so hard about mailing them if you are preparing an invitation?

Thank you Shanagirl, that is my point!








You listed some great examples of common courtesy in general!! I agree 100%.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think the "elementary school rules" of either not giving out invites in class, or inviting the whole class (or all the boys or all the girls) should apply to all grades in elementary school. In middle and high school, it's not JUST that the children are older- there's unstructured time between classes to hand out stuff without obviously excluding somebody. In a tiny private school where the setup is more like an elementary school, even at the high school level, I think the same rules should also apply.

Yes, kids will talk about who's invited and who's going and somebody's feelings could get hurt even if the invites are mailed out. But that's still not an excuse to hand out the invitations in a way that's blatently rude to those not invited.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
But that's still not an excuse to hand out the invitations in a way that's blatently rude to those not invited.

I guess that's why I'm not with the majority on this one. I don't see anything rude about inviting one's friends to one's birthday party, and not inviting people who aren't your friends.


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## frogguruami (Sep 21, 2004)

When DS was in school I sent them to school in a bag and asked the teacher to put them in their respective cubbies. The kids didn't even see them until they were home and unpacking their backpack. Of course DS was in K and 1st grade so the classroom dynamics may be different.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtoatweenandteen* 
Do you think that kids who are having a birthday party should hand-out their invitations in the classroom?

My daughter is currently in the 6th grade, and even though she has a summer b-day, I would never think to give only the "select" few an invitation during class time.

As far as I remember, our school policy has been that unless you invite the entire class, the invitations have to be mailed, hand delivered and so forth.
Of course, not all parents abide by this rule!







:

I personally feel this is very rude and insensitive on the parent's part.


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## mcng (Oct 17, 2006)

fair is a place with cotton candy and rides it ain't life

I guess I take opportunities like this to be a learning experience. I can't shelter my children from the unfairness of life but can help them deal with it


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## DoctorGirlfriend (Dec 4, 2006)

It's not about "fair," though...it's about being polite.

I didn't hand out invitations to my wedding at work, because not everyone was invited. They were mailed. If I had a party, I'd email the invitations, or make a phone call.

Why WOULDN'T you make a minimal effort to avoid hurt feelings?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoctorGirlfriend* 
Why WOULDN'T you make a minimal effort to avoid hurt feelings?

Well...probably because it never would have occurred to me that anybody's feelings would be hurt by not being invited to a birthday party of soemone they weren't friends with...or the wedding of someone they worked with. Why on earth would someone's feelings be hurt because a co-worker invited someone else to their wedding?

Do we have to invite everyone in the office to lunch everyday, instead of lunching with one friend? If I were inclined to have hurt feelings because of friends wanting to spend time together (I'm not so inclined), I think I'd be far more hurt by the regular, daily exclusions than by not being invited to a special celebration.

Honestly - even after several threads on this, I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around it.


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## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

My son is in Pre-K, and when I asked the teacher about the best way to hand out invitations, she said to send them to school and she could put them in the kids' backpacks. No, we did not invite everyone - just 5 kids.

I did not know the kids' last names, and of course, my pre-K son didn't know their last names either, so looking them up in the phone book was impossible. The school was not allowed to give me last names or phone numbers (privacy and safety) so handing them out in school was the only option.

I never see the other mothers since the drop-off and pick-up for pre-K students is highly streamlined. The teacher and assistant take them out of the cars in the morning, and put them back in the cars when school is over.

I did give my son explicit directions to not talk about the party in class b/c some of the other kids' feelings might get hurt.

Until DS is old enough to remember last names, this will probably be the only way.


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## Lousli (Nov 4, 2003)

I posted on another thread about this, but I'll say it again. Honestly, all the people who "don't get it" were probably fairly socially well adjusted people growing up who had friends. At least some friends. It may be hard to understand that there are children that don't have friends. There was a little girl in my class one year who had been abused in her past, was socialy terribly awkward, and to make matters worse, because of the past abuse, soiled herself in class. No one talked to her, no one sat near her at lunch. No one was her friend. There are children that are bullied and ignored and avoided by nearly everyone. I think it is a little much, even for a 12 year old, to be just told that life isn't fair and not to get hurt feelings when as the year goes on there are 20 birthday parties and she isn't invited to a single one of them. Oh, but she shouldn't expect to be, right, because those children aren't her friends.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lousli* 
Honestly, all the people who "don't get it" were probably fairly socially well adjusted people growing up who had friends. At least some friends. It may be hard to understand that there are children that don't have friends.

I had one friend in 6th and 7th grade...then she moved. No - that's not the same as having no friends, but I was _far_ from being "socially well adjusted". Except for that friend, I don't remember ever being invited to a birthday party between grades 5 and 9. I just can't see why that would upset me. Being spit on upset me - having the spitter exclude me from his party guest list...not at all.

Quote:

No one talked to her, no one sat near her at lunch. No one was her friend. There are children that are bullied and ignored and avoided by nearly everyone. I think it is a little much, even for a 12 year old, to be just told that life isn't fair and not to get hurt feelings when as the year goes on there are 20 birthday parties and she isn't invited to a single one of them. Oh, but she shouldn't expect to be, right, because those children aren't her friends.
So - you think that she'd have felt better being invited to parties because of a rule. Would that make kids sit with her at lunch? Do you think her feelings were only hurt by not being invited to parties? The reality is that not being invited to parties is only a punctuation mark...these kids are being systematically excluded on a daily basis.

Besides - whether the kids hand out invitations in class or not - even if they don't talk about the parties - she's still going to know that her classmates are having birthdays.


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## Lousli (Nov 4, 2003)

I don't think she should be invited to the parties because of a rule. But I think handing out invitations in class in front of the excluded children is incredibly rude. It is like rubbing their nose in it. What is the big deal about taking a little extra time or postage to ensure that the child hands them out before or after school or sends them in the mail?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lousli* 
I don't think she should be invited to the parties because of a rule. But I think handing out invitations in class in front of the excluded children is incredibly rude. It is like rubbing their nose in it.

Okay. I get that you think that. I don't agree. I don't see what's rude about inviting your friends to your birthday party. I still find this whole argument...odd.

Quote:

What is the big deal about taking a little extra time or postage to ensure that the child hands them out before or after school or sends them in the mail?
At this point in my life - no big deal at all. Several years ago - when I was literally combing my sofa for change to put on a party for ds1 at all, and had no money for postage, and had no time for anything (I grocery shopped for one of his early parties at 9:30 at night - after he was in bed)..._huge_ deal.

I think on this one I'm going to have to just agree to disagree, and try to avoid the threads. The idea that it's rude to hand your friend an invitation to your birthday party - anywhere - is just something that I find over-the-top.


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## DoctorGirlfriend (Dec 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I think on this one I'm going to have to just agree to disagree, and try to avoid the threads. The idea that it's rude to hand your friend an invitation to your birthday party - anywhere - is just something that I find over-the-top.

The idea is that it's rude to exclude others, when there's another way of getting invitations out to those who were invited. Do it before school, or after school, or make a phone call, or mail the invitation.

You're right, it's probably an agree-to-disagree thing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

How does before school or after school change anything? Does another child feel less excluded if he sees an invitation change hands in the hallway?

Okay - never mind. I think I'll leave this one.

I do wonder, though - how long have these rules been in place at various schools? I'd never heard of it until someone mentioned it here a few months ago.


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## DoctorGirlfriend (Dec 4, 2006)

It was in place for my grade school, in the early 80s.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Interesting thread.

I understand and agree with not being made to invite kids who the birthday child doesn't get along with. I just am firmly in the "it is rude to hand out invites at school" camp.

I was that kid who was friends with everyone. I was comfortable and welcome in the jock clique, the band kids, the stoners, etc. I would like to see every single kid I graduated with - our 20 year reunion is this summer!!!

My kids are invited to plenty of parties. Sometimes I am glad we don't do a written budget because I don't really want to know how much we spend on birthday gifts for my kids' friends....







:

And even though I don't remember being on the "I wasn't invited" side (although it surely happened), I STILL think that it is just plain good manners and kindness to mail invites.

What kind of CIA schools do some kids go to that you don't know last names of the kids, have no school directory or class list, anything? I have three kids - they have been in (counting....) six different preschools and elementaries. Every one gave us a class list, if not the whole school directory. It is one typed page for the class, and can be emailed out - how hard is that?

All six schools also had the "no handing out invites at school" policy. It isn't shielding kids from real life (as others have mentioned, kids do talk before and after the party - although I teach my kids that their name is mud if they do that about their parties or anyone else's); it is just kindness. I want my kids to be kind.

I find it odd that some feel handing out at school is their only option. If your child knows the other kid enough to want to invite them, I'd think you could call or email the mom and say "I'm Suzy's mom from this and such school and Suzy wants to invite Jimmy to her birthday party. Can I have your address to mail the invitation?" - or email to send the evite.

Actual enveloped invites are rare where we live. Most people just do evites now. Easy.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

At that age, if they are friends enough to invite to a party, they are friends enough to know each other's addresses to either mail or hand deliver invites.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

There is no rule at either of dc's schools. My personal policy with dd has been you pretty much what you said:

1. Invite all girls and give invites in class

or

2. Email, discreetly hand to, mail or what not to those you want there.

I also have encouraged dd to have all the girls over, especially when she would invite almost everyone already. I backed off last year. She did not have everyone over to the house. This year, all in her class were invited to go bowling and then all the girls were given the option to sleep-over. FTR, dd is in a k-8 school and most of the kids have been there forever


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
What kind of CIA schools do some kids go to that you don't know last names of the kids, have no school directory or class list, anything? I have three kids - they have been in (counting....) six different preschools and elementaries. Every one gave us a class list, if not the whole school directory. It is one typed page for the class, and can be emailed out - how hard is that?

We got a class list when ds1 was in kindergarten through...grade three, maybe? But, it didn't have phone numbers or parent's names, which aren't always the same as the kids, of course.

I'd never even heard of a school directory until a few months ago - here. If my son's school _had_ had one, I'd have probably asked to be left out of it, if possible.

Quote:

I find it odd that some feel handing out at school is their only option. If your child knows the other kid enough to want to invite them, I'd think you could call or email the mom and say "I'm Suzy's mom from this and such school and Suzy wants to invite Jimmy to her birthday party. Can I have your address to mail the invitation?" - or email to send the evite.

Actual enveloped invites are rare where we live. Most people just do evites now. Easy.
How on earth does my kid knowing a kid well enough to want to invite them to a party equal me having his/her parent's name, phone number or email address? I didn't even have the internet when ds1's 5th and 6th birthdays rolled around, so an evite wasn't a possibility. I know there were several of his classmates who didn't even own computers, with or without net access.

Well - it's obviously a different perspective - mailing invitations for a kid's party would have never occurred to me, as invitations were always handed out in class when I was in school.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoctorGirlfriend* 
It was in place for my grade school, in the early 80s.

Wow. I'd never, ever heard of it befoe, and between me, my friend's kids, and my own kids, we've had people pretty constantly in the school system here since the mid-70s.


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## oldgirlnewtricks (Aug 30, 2006)

The first time your child is crying because they have been left out, maybe some that don't think it's a big deal will understand. Would you go to playgroup and announce that you are having a party, but you are only going to invite mom #1, mom #6, and mom #4? No, of course not. That would be terrible rude and insensitive. Same with the birthday parties.

Mail, hand deliver or call them, please.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oldgirl,newtricks* 
The first time your child is crying because they have been left out, maybe some that don't think it's a big deal will understand. Would you go to playgroup and announce that you are having a party, but you are only going to invite mom #1, mom #6, and mom #4? No, of course not. That would be terrible rude and insensitive. Same with the birthday parties.

Mail, hand deliver or call them, please.

If "mom #1, mom #6, mom #4" and I were in the habit of hanging out outside of the playgroup, why not? How is it rude and insensitive to have close friends within a larger group?

Are you guys telling me that if four moms from a playgroup you belonged to were close friends, you'd feel left out if they had a party without you?

Okay - sorry - really out of here, now - not getting this one _at all_...and I have, as I've said, been left out _plenty_. I even used to cry about it - but not over special occasions...the day-to-day meanness was what cut to the quick.


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## teastaigh (Dec 17, 2001)

Etiquette is etiquette.
It isn't a law or a rule.
It's socially accepted and preferred behavior.
Having good manners is a real blessing.
Teaching them to our children is a gift.

This is from Business Week magazine, March 16, 2006, in an article
written by Liz Ryan:

"Keep invitations private -- or include everyone.
Remember in fourth grade, how you weren't allowed to hand out your birthday party invitations in class? Schools make these rules so that no one will feel left out. It's no different in the corporate world. If you walk up to three people and say to two of them, "So, Stan and Judy, want to grab some lunch?" you are saying loudly to the other person, "You are chopped liver." It's incredibly rude. If you are Stan or Judy, smile brightly and say, "I'm only going if Diana goes, too."

Keeping invitations private or including everyone is good etiquette as is writing thank you notes, saying "please" and "thank you," and not flossing or cleaning your ears in public.

Many good and kind people do not practice good manners. It doesn't make them not good and kind people. It does make them insensitive. It also means that they may, inadvertently, hurt other people.

On the other hand, good manners truly create a good impression. They can also bring sunshine to someone else's day. They also help foster self-esteem and a nicer world. Yes, there are serious creeps and dangerous criminals with good manners. In general, I think we do our children a real favor if we teach them minimally polite and expected behavior.

Again, manners and how I treat others are also things that I think I need to always be improving.

peace,
teastaigh


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Well, the net result of having read this thread is that I no longer want to accept any invitations that come my way, if anyone else is around...because I have no desire to be a "pity" invite. Ick.

I'd much, much, much rather have the people I'm talking to be invited out to lunch, than have someone "include" me because their friends happened to be talking to me. Would any of you actually be upset if someone invited their friends to lunch and didn't include you? Would you feel that made you "chopped liver"?

Oh - and in the cited situation in the article - if I were "Diana", I'd be about 100% more mortified by the "good manners" of "I'm only going if Diana goes, too" than I ever would be by someone wanting to spend their time with the people they enjoy spending their time with. I'd feel like a charity case. So, by following the "good manners" in the article, someone may inadvertently hurt me.

We had a girl in grade seven that nobody liked, including me. I always tried to be nice to her, so I didn't hurt her feelings. I ended up spending a good chunk of that year trying to pry her off me with a crowbar. She was annoying and wouldn't leave me alone - ever. She practically followed me to the bathroom. I'm sure it was because I was her only "friend", but it drove me crazy. In the end, I had to tell her, as politely as possible, to just go away and leave me alone. I ended up hurting her worse than anybody else in the class ever did, because I turned her into a charity case. These things aren't so simple.


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Storm Bride said:


> Well...probably because it never would have occurred to me that anybody's feelings would be hurt by not being invited to a birthday party of soemone they weren't friends with... QUOTE]
> 
> Storm Bride, if the child/children weren't part of the group of the birthday child and they were skipped over, that's one thing, but how about the child who might feel he/she is a part of that group, doesn't get an invitation and feels left out? At this age, the exclusion game can be hurtful!


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## anubis (Oct 6, 2006)

Anything can be done in a hurtful manner. Yes, the exclusion game exists. It exists in the cafeteria when the kids you thought you were friends with won't sit in the same table with you. Ban school lunch? It exists in recess when the other kids don't want to play with you. Ban games? I just don't see where it ends if we keep banning things that might hurt someone's feelings.

I was never a popular kid, I had very few friends at school. Sometimes I was excluded from things. Sometimes it did hurt. You know what my mum said? She asked me if I really wanted to be friends with people who deliberately hurt my feelings. And yes, that lesson took some time to learn, it didn't help right then and there. But it did sink in, eventually. I want to teach my kids the skills to handle people who hurt them. Overmore, I want them to find friends who try not to. The kid that gets off on excluding someone from their party will find a way to go on that particular power trip somehow. Birthday party invitations are just one means to that.


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
Anything can be done in a hurtful manner. Yes, the exclusion game exists. It exists in the cafeteria when the kids you thought you were friends with won't sit in the same table with you. Ban school lunch? It exists in recess when the other kids don't want to play with you. Ban games? I just don't see where it ends if we keep banning things that might hurt someone's feelings.

I was never a popular kid, I had very few friends at school. Sometimes I was excluded from things. Sometimes it did hurt. You know what my mum said? She asked me if I really wanted to be friends with people who deliberately hurt my feelings. And yes, that lesson took some time to learn, it didn't help right then and there. But it did sink in, eventually. I want to teach my kids the skills to handle people who hurt them. Overmore, I want them to find friends who try not to. The kid that gets off on excluding someone from their party will find a way to go on that particular power trip somehow. Birthday party invitations are just one means to that.

Point well taken to everything you stated! And your right, it never ends.

Please know that I'm not being fanatic about this, and you are so "right on" that it happens in different scenarios (in school) as you had mentioned. But keep in mind that this is a school rule, not mine; however, I'm still going to stick to my guns







and believe that being thoughtful is never a bad thing.

By the way, I love the way your own mother handled these situations...I try to do the same with my daughter. And even though others may choose to go the other route, I try to teach my daughter, just the same, to be sensitive to other's feelings.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anubis* 
Anything can be done in a hurtful manner. Yes, the exclusion game exists. It exists in the cafeteria when the kids you thought you were friends with won't sit in the same table with you. Ban school lunch? It exists in recess when the other kids don't want to play with you. Ban games? I just don't see where it ends if we keep banning things that might hurt someone's feelings.

I was never a popular kid, I had very few friends at school. Sometimes I was excluded from things. Sometimes it did hurt. You know what my mum said? She asked me if I really wanted to be friends with people who deliberately hurt my feelings. And yes, that lesson took some time to learn, it didn't help right then and there. But it did sink in, eventually. I want to teach my kids the skills to handle people who hurt them. Overmore, I want them to find friends who try not to. The kid that gets off on excluding someone from their party will find a way to go on that particular power trip somehow. Birthday party invitations are just one means to that.

This is more-or-less what I've been trying to say - only said much more effectively.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtoatweenandteen* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Well...probably because it never would have occurred to me that anybody's feelings would be hurt by not being invited to a birthday party of soemone they weren't friends with...

Storm Bride, if the child/children weren't part of the group of the birthday child and they were skipped over, that's one thing, but how about the child who might feel he/she is a part of that group, doesn't get an invitation and feels left out? At this age, the exclusion game can be hurtful!

If ds1 and his friends (as an example) decided to exclude 'J' from their group, by not inviting him to a party or anything else, 'J' would know about it, regardless of how they handled it. He know when all of his friends have their birthdays. He'd know they were being hurtful and mean...whether or not they handed out invititations in front of him. This rule isn't going to prevent any hurt feelings - when kids are being deliberately exclusionary, they'll find a way to make sure their target knows he/she is being shut out.

DS1 was once told, "you're not invited to my party, because gifted kids aren't cool". Having the boy in question hand out his invitations in the hallway or mail them is completely ineffective against that kind of shut out. Of course ds1 was hurt - he was supposed to be - that was the whole point.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

I know from my own experiences how difficult it can be socially when you are trying to invite some friends to an event and not others. I got married last year and it was very sticky in my social circle for awhile (we were not able to invite ALL of our friends.)

Of course I would try not to talk about the wedding in front of people who were not invited, but inevitably other people would bring it up and I would feel awful... in one case a friend who was NOT invited actually asked me point blank if he was invited or not, in front of somebody who WAS. I had to say that no, unfortunately we were not able to invite everyone we wanted to... He is still hurt by that. It's very hard to be told you don't rank high enough for an invitation to a party. I would never dream of purposely making somebody feel that way.

Sure, it *might* be okay if I talked about a party in front of people who did not think they were my friends, but I'd rather not underline the fact that I don't like them that much - that seems really insensitive to me.

At the elementary school level, I think the idea is to try to get kids to at least consider that it would be better to avoid hurting people's feelings. Sure, the non-invited kids might find out about the party anyway, but at least the school is trying to teach some sort of empathy and consideration! If the child is inviting only the kids he/she plays with, it should be easy for them to hand out invites without doing it in front of anyone who would be upset by it.

And yes, even though I am friends with one co-worker and not the other, I would try not to invite him out for drinks or whatever in front of the excluded one. It's just awkward and I think it is impolite to make people feel awkward if you can prevent it...


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## anubis (Oct 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtoatweenandteen* 

Please know that I'm not being fanatic about this, and you are so "right on" that it happens in different scenarios (in school) as you had mentioned. But keep in mind that this is a school rule, not mine; however, I'm still going to stick to my guns







and believe that being thoughtful is never a bad thing.

By the way, I love the way your own mother handled these situations...I try to do the same with my daughter. And even though others may choose to go the other route, I try to teach my daughter, just the same, to be sensitive to other's feelings.

I totally agree that if it already is a school rule, I wouldn't go fighting with the school about that. It's not really that big of an issue either way. I agree that being thoughtful is a good thing, great thing actually, but I would much prefer if parents taught their kids to be thoughtful instead of having to ban things for the mere reason that a lot of parents don't. I hope that my children and yours show that example at school and all walks of life, maybe making up for some other parents' shortcomings in that regard







Hopefully other kids can make up for my shortcomings too









And yeah, I'm proud of my mother. She did well for a very low-income single mama with too few supportive people in her life


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
If ds1 and his friends (as an example) decided to exclude 'J' from their group, by not inviting him to a party or anything else, 'J' would know about it, regardless of how they handled it. He know when all of his friends have their birthdays. He'd know they were being hurtful and mean...whether or not they handed out invititations in front of him. This rule isn't going to prevent any hurt feelings - when kids are being deliberately exclusionary, they'll find a way to make sure their target knows he/she is being shut out.

DS1 was once told, "you're not invited to my party, because gifted kids aren't cool". Having the boy in question hand out his invitations in the hallway or mail them is completely ineffective against that kind of shut out. Of course ds1 was hurt - he was supposed to be - that was the whole point.

What about this. 'J' is told to his face that he is not invited because he is not cool enough. 'J's reaction to the direct insult is as important as the slight. On the other hand, 'J' doesn't get an invite but sees other kids with invites in the hall. 'J' then goes home and tells his mom all about it and they work out the feelings together. After thought and contemplation 'J' can address the situation with the other kid if he wants but regardless he is not put on the spot.

The situation with DS1 is just like giving the invite in front of him. He was told that he will not be invited, just because the paper part was done in private doesn't make the "invite" any less public.

I used to work with my best friend of 10 years and we never invited eachother to lunch without inviting everyone else within earshot. That *is* rude. Although DD is still young, she does go to Montessori school and the parents give the invitations to the woman who works at the front desk and she sends them with the kids at dismissal.

Oh, and I just polled DH and he thinks it is rude to exclude people to their face too. In case that matters.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
The situation with DS1 is just like giving the invite in front of him. He was told that he will not be invited, just because the paper part was done in private doesn't make the "invite" any less public.

How is it the same? DS1 never expected to be invited to this kid's party and wouldn't have cared. He _didn't_ expect to be singled out in front of the whole class and told that he, specifically, wasn't being invited because he wasn't cool. (There were only five kids out of 20 invited - nobody else got singled out, though.)

Quote:

I used to work with my best friend of 10 years and we never invited eachother to lunch without inviting everyone else within earshot. That *is* rude.
Okay - to each their own. If I got invited to lunch by someone who was obviously going out to lunch with a friend, and didn't invite me to lunch at other times, I'd feel slapped in the face. I don't think a "pity" invite is polite. I think it sets the other person up to feel as though they have a friend that they don't actually have...as did the girl in my 7th grade class that I mentioned above.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
What about this. 'J' is told to his face that he is not invited because he is not cool enough. 'J's reaction to the direct insult is as important as the slight. On the other hand, 'J' doesn't get an invite but sees other kids with invites in the hall. 'J' then goes home and tells his mom all about it and they work out the feelings together. After thought and contemplation 'J' can address the situation with the other kid if he wants but regardless he is not put on the spot.

I'm also not getting your point here. If 'J' has been excluded, he's been excluded. You seem to be saying that handing out invitations in front of him gives him the opportunity to talk it out with his mom. But...I thought the handing out invititations in front of others was what we were talking about in the first place.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
Sure, it *might* be okay if I talked about a party in front of people who did not think they were my friends, but I'd rather not underline the fact that I don't like them that much - that seems really insensitive to me.

Why? Surely, playing with the same kids every recess and lunch hour, hanging out with those kids every day after school, and having sleepovers and all that makes it pretty obvious which people you like the best??

Since when does "not one of my close friends" equal "don't like them that much", anyway? There are lots of people I like quite well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to invite them to my birthday party. I celebrate with close friends and family - as does my ds1 - and, in general, I think anybody who doesn't fit into that category already knows it.


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## DoctorGirlfriend (Dec 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
If I got invited to lunch by someone who was obviously going out to lunch with a friend, and didn't invite me to lunch at other times, I'd feel slapped in the face. I don't think a "pity" invite is polite. I think it sets the other person up to feel as though they have a friend that they don't actually have...as did the girl in my 7th grade class that I mentioned above.

Why would you feel insulted for that? Why would you assume that it was a pity invite?


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

I think it is rude unless the entire class is invited.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoctorGirlfriend* 
Why would you feel insulted for that? Why would you assume that it was a pity invite?

Because if someone wants to invite me out for lunch, they would. They wouldn't wait until they were trying to invite someone else, and I was in the way.

Mind you - I'm not sure that would have occurred to me before reading this thread. I never accepted a lunch invitation from anyone at work, anyway - except for an occasional working lunch with my boss.

ETA: Reading that article someone posted really firmed up that feeling. I mean "I won't go unless Diana goes, too"...how humiliating!


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Didn't want to hijack the thread so I posted a spinoff:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=594225


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## pegasus_hoofbeats (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow...Didn't expect this kind of reaction to this thread.

When I was in school [Mind you, I just graduated HS four years ago]...People handed out invitations before/between/after class.

Generally, if you have a small group--People will KNOW it's your birthday, but the most they might say is 'Are you having a party?' [[and they never tried to invite themselves...thus ending any awkward situations.]] to which, I generally replied 'Not really, but we're going to the arcade/having cake/whatever...Come over!' [[What can I say, I didn't like leaving people out.]]









Although, I don't know how one particular party was handled. I think it was an 'invite the whole group' instance...And we QUICKLY learned that 'the whole group' was a very, very bad idea. Then again, the invite system for that party, so I've been told...Was my at-the-time 13 year old brother leaving voicemails on all my 16 or so invited friends answering machines LMAO. I imagine the 'invitation' went something like *mumble* 'Uhm, this is R, and I'm K's brother...and Uhm...we're uh...havin' a party...So uhm, if you wanna come...uhm...call us back. OK bye. *click*'
















If it were me, I'd hand them out between classes. My school used to give us 4 minutes between classes. We all had a 'gathering spot' and everyone knew to meet there. Plenty of time to pass out invites.

But hey, that's just me.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I remember this rule when I was in school. It was not a written rule but most kids mailed invites. My mom would not let me hand out invites in school. I rememeber as a child thinking that it was a really dumb rule that adults who did not understand school AT ALL made up just to be difficult. School was all about exclusion, cliques, and making people feel bad every single day. To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package. Every single kid is somewhere on the food chain and it has nothing to do with invites. It amazes me that adults forget this. I was luckily not one of the picked on kids, but I took my fair shair of torture from my "friends" and witnessed horrible things being done to kids every single day starting in 3rd grade up until graduation day. I also remember that none of us told any adults about this and I am sure it is the same now. This is one HUGE reason that we are homeschooling. School is by far the most emotionally brutal experience I have ever had (and this from a "popular" kid) and in no way resembles "real life". You take hundreds of people that are all the same age, throw them in a competative, largely unpoliced, and artificial environment for 6 hours a day, and this is what happens. Whether you mail the invites or not, every kid knows about the party and they all know who was not invited. You might as well put the invites on a bulletin board with the "you cannot come" list posted right along side. That info is already "public" anyway.


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## Momtoatweenandteen (Nov 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package.

Hi Yooper,

I agree that school (this age in particular) is an arena for exclusion, hurt feelings and sometimes worse, but some of it can be avoided. Our school district enforces a very strict no-bully policy; without one in place would be a nightmare in itself. And if a child in our schools, whether it be elementary or at the high school level is harrassed on a daily basis, a complaint can be filed.

Where we live, bullying is not a part of the "package", and is dealt with! Again, it depends on ones school district. Thankfully, my daughter has never been bullied. Bullying is another post in itself, so I'll stop blabbering.









I agree that not all things can be avoided, such as the kid who gets picked last in gym, but you had mentioned that while the kid may not be able to hurt the "geeks" feelings by handing out the invites, they are able to tease the kid in other ways. This is true, it doesn't stop at the invite, but I will say this, it's ultimately up to the way parents and their own children operate in showing kindness to others in general that makes the difference.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
School was all about exclusion, cliques, and making people feel bad every single day. To take one tiny little thing like invites and make some sort of weird example out of it seemed really strange to me. The mean popular girl was not allowed to hurt the geek's feelings by handing out invites at school but was 100% "allowed" to make fun of geek's clothing, let all of her friends cut in front of geek in lunch line, make jokes about geek that geek does not even get, pick the same geek last every single day in gym class, etc...... IMO, if you send your kids to school this is part of the package. Every single kid is somewhere on the food chain and it has nothing to do with invites. It amazes me that adults forget this. I was luckily not one of the picked on kids, but I took my fair shair of torture from my "friends" and witnessed horrible things being done to kids every single day starting in 3rd grade up until graduation day. I also remember that none of us told any adults about this and I am sure it is the same now. This is one HUGE reason that we are homeschooling. School is by far the most emotionally brutal experience I have ever had (and this from a "popular" kid).

I am torn between this being one of the saddest things I've read on MDC in years of being a member, and gratitude that my school wasn't like this. Wow. I'm really sorry that that was your experience.

This is quite a far ways off topic, but in response to the above, I saw some teasing take place over my years in school. There is a "food chain"; I'm not arguing that. But I don't believe school was about "making people feel bad every single day". I just can't get over how sad that that is a reality for someone.

I think the root of this thread is that we want our kids to be kind. Not being allowed to invite 25 kids to your party isn't because you want to exclude certain kids - it is about the house not being big enough to have that many! It isn't exclusion; it is reality of the situation. And it is kind to mail or email invites, and teach your kids not to discuss parties when at school. Just basic kindness - I am surprised that we don't all agree on at least that much.

And as to adults inviting to lunch or what have you - I am not hurt by C talking about her family's cruise with L. They are best friends and I wouldn't expect that they'd vacation with EVERY friend they have. What would hurt me is if C and I and L are walking on the treadmills at the gym and one asks the other if she wants to go to the coffee shop after. Hello??


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I am torn between this being one of the saddest things I've read on MDC in years of being a member, and gratitude that my school wasn't like this. Wow. I'm really sorry that that was your experience.

This is quite a far ways off topic, but in response to the above, I saw some teasing take place over my years in school. There is a "food chain"; I'm not arguing that. But I don't believe school was about "making people feel bad every single day". I just can't get over how sad that that is a reality for someone.

That was my reality. That was the reality of many of my friends. In fact, I've met more people who felt that way about it than didn't...even ones who were at the top of the food chain. The closest I ever felt to being a child abuser was the first day I dropped ds1 off at kindergarten...worse than the couple of times I lost it and spanked him when he was young...and those incidents ended with both of us crying on the floor.

School was hell. I graduated, and never even considered continuing with my education, because I spent every minute of grades 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 thinking "when do I get out of here?". The one thought that ran through my head whenever I had the razorblade hovering above my wrists was "no way in hell am I going to give them the satisfaction". That was reality. That was exclusion. Do you actually think that the teacher or a parent making someone give me an invitation to a birthday party would have seemed "kind"?

Quote:

I think the root of this thread is that we want our kids to be kind. Not being allowed to invite 25 kids to your party isn't because you want to exclude certain kids - it is about the house not being big enough to have that many!
umm...no, it's not. Not inviting 25 kids to my son's party was because my son wasn't that close to all 25 kids. He was close to a handful and wanted to celebrate with them.

Quote:

And as to adults inviting to lunch or what have you - I am not hurt by C talking about her family's cruise with L. They are best friends and I wouldn't expect that they'd vacation with EVERY friend they have. What would hurt me is if C and I and L are walking on the treadmills at the gym and one asks the other if she wants to go to the coffee shop after. Hello??
Hello, what? Why is lunch different? Why would anyone expect to be invited to lunch with best friends, just because they happen to be co-workers? I'm truly not getting why anyone would feel shut out or rejected by this...


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

My family had a holiday party in early December (we called it a Festival of Sweets.....desserts only). I invited about four people I work with, and I gave them invitations at work.

No, I didn't gather the whole staff together and tell them, "I'm having a party but only inviting A, B, C and D." I gave each person their invitations discretely. I don't see why something similar couldn't be done in a classroom.

And no, I wasn't a "popular" kid with lots of friends. Honest to goodness....I can't recall *ever* attending a birthday party as a kid. Could be that people in our neck of the woods just didn't "do" birthday parties, because my parents didn't do them, either.


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## E.V. Lowi (Sep 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teastaigh* 
It's rude.
It's bad manners.

By the way, adults do it all the time. I can't believe how these people talk about their BBQs or their girls-nights-outs in front of others on a regular basis. Presumedly "nice" and "socially well-adjusted" people have insider-conversations, excluding whomever else is in attendance and doesn't know the absent parties under discussion, etc.

It's also impolite to eat in front of others unless we have enough to share with everyone. I'm not talking about brown-bag lunch meetings at work. I'm talking about eating in class.

I was always taught not to discuss plans in front of anyone who wasn't included. I saw my parents model this too

My dad says that a truly classy person makes other people feel comfortable. Good manners are not to be taken lightly. I know I can work on my own and need reminders and improvement too.

peace,
teastaigh

I agree! Just a matter of COMMON COURTESY!


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think it's sad and shouldn't be done. If there isn't an invitation for everyone in the class, they should be mailed.


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## smillerhouse (Aug 5, 2006)

I really try to practice inclusivity and encourage this with my daughter. We have been and continue to particpate in anumber of different kind of groups and I can tell you that my expereince is that in most situations I have encountered a lot of exclusivity. We are currently on a travel volleyball team. We had the first tournament last weekend. There was group invites but also a lot of private type stuff. As this is a new team for us, I wasn't sure at first what was going on. I quickly learn who is "safe " and more open to talk to, get info from,etc. We don't do many parites. For my dd's 13th we mailed or hand gve invites. Two kids acutally showed up-it was nice . My daughter has many differnt type of kids calling her and we get a number of differnt kinds of invites. I try to teach her consideration. Like yesterday she was invited to a party and she chose to go to a movie. I encouraged her to thank her for the invite. This new volleyball team seems to be very social. My dd is an introvert. We will do the group stuff but will turn down private stuff depending on the situaiton.Shfe is going to a sleepover tonight with the volleyball team. Like last weekend at the tourney, she got invted to a movie and turned it down.
I try to be considerate and respectful in my dealings with others and not take personlly what I see is insensitviiy a lot. I do see my daughter as being very caring and open to new people that interest her. Sallie


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lckrause* 
I'm sorry, but I think 12 year olds should be able to deal with the fact that not everyone is going to get invited to every party. I really don't see anything wrong with handing out invites in a classroom unless it's interfering with lesson time.







The girls at my daughter's dance studio hand out party invitations all the time--same thing, really, as they are certainly not inviting every girl in every one of their classes to every party.

While I do agree with this in general, kids are mean. I have known everyone except for one girl in my class to be invited to a party. While the invitations were not distributed in class, believe me, it was all the talk that the WHOLE class (girls and boys) had been invited to the party, except for that one. Now imagine how badly she would have felt if all 21 other students received an invite in their school mailboxes, and she was the only one who didn't.

Also, this makes me think of the Valentine's Day rule of sending in Valentines for all of your classmates, or none. I once had a second grade class in which a little boy did make Valentines for everyone, but he made two for most students and just one for the few he wanted to make feel badly...Children often find ways to be mean to eachother and hurt feelings. If some rules at school can prevent some of this, I think that's a good thing. School should be an emotionally safe place; children can only learn their best if they are feeling safe.


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## Stinkerbell (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophiesgrandma* 
NO-I don't think it's fair at all and I am totally against it. Invite the entire class or mail out the invites. This is such a preventable way of unneccessarily hurting someones feelings. It is absolutely avoidable. I would talk to the teacher about it and perhaps the principal if nothing is done.

ITA. Of course it happened to all of us and it hurt our feelings. I dont want to teach my kids not to bother making a simple change to avoid hurting people's feelings. It;s so EASY to just hand them out privately and keep it quiet...why wouldn't you??


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

While I know it doesn't change things really as far as excluding kids and such, I think it is rude to hand them out during class. I just do. Sure, I don't think my kids should have to invite kids who are not friends with them and I don't think that other kids should be hurt if they aren't invited to a party of a nonfriend, but I still think it is bad manners to hand out invites to a select few in a large group. I guess this is just what my mother taught me and it is the same lesson I plan on teaching my children. Little lessons like this help shape the sorts of manners they will have as adults and I would like for my children to be as polite as possible.


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## ~MoonGypsy~ (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lousli* 
I posted on another thread about this, but I'll say it again. Honestly, all the people who "don't get it" were probably fairly socially well adjusted people growing up who had friends. At least some friends. It may be hard to understand that there are children that don't have friends. There was a little girl in my class one year who had been abused in her past, was socialy terribly awkward, and to make matters worse, because of the past abuse, soiled herself in class. No one talked to her, no one sat near her at lunch. No one was her friend. There are children that are bullied and ignored and avoided by nearly everyone. I think it is a little much, even for a 12 year old, to be just told that life isn't fair and not to get hurt feelings when as the year goes on there are 20 birthday parties and she isn't invited to a single one of them. Oh, but she shouldn't expect to be, right, because those children aren't her friends.


This is exactly why I have a problem with inviting the whole class or all the girls.

This little girl, after being given the mandatory invite, had two options - Go or Dont. If she doesn't go, it was a wasteful in many ways. The invite was wasted, money was wasted, the little girl got her hopes up but declined because she knows she was not liked, etc. If she goes do you think all of a sudden everyone at the party will be her best chum? No way. She'll be treated the same way at the party as she is at school. Even if good watchful parents are around that wont change the way that she's treated by her classmates.

AND people feel required to bring gifts to a birthday party. That's also very wasteful. Classmates who don't know the birthday girl/boy will grab whatever toy strikes their fancy and it may or may not get played with. Just more materialistic junk laying around.


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## Lousli (Nov 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~MoonGypsy~* 
This is exactly why I have a problem with inviting the whole class or all the girls.

The part I have a problem with is handing them out in class in front of everyone. I think if you do that, you should invite everyone. Otherwise, make the inviting discreet. That's all, it just seems like common courtesy to me.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
How does before school or after school change anything? Does another child feel less excluded if he sees an invitation change hands in the hallway?

Okay - never mind. I think I'll leave this one.

I do wonder, though - how long have these rules been in place at various schools? I'd never heard of it until someone mentioned it here a few months ago.


It's probably fine most of the time...but to the outcast ( I was one) it's awful because the mean girls gloat and flaunt it while they hand out the invitations and make snide remarks under their breat as they pass your seat. It's those nasty girls that ruined it for everyone else and made those rules necessary. I went to 11 or 12 different schools as a child.....every school I went to had girls that treated me like that.

edited to add: there were a few times that I was actually the ONLY kid NOT invited or the ONLY girl not invited.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
It's probably fine most of the time...but to the outcast ( I was one) it's awful because the mean girls gloat and flaunt it while they hand out the invitations and make snide remarks under their breat as they pass your seat. It's those nasty girls that ruined it for everyone else and made those rules necessary. I went to 11 or 12 different schools as a child.....every school I went to had girls that treated me like that.

edited to add: there were a few times that I was actually the ONLY kid NOT invited or the ONLY girl not invited.

If they went to that much effort to exclude you, do you really think that the rule would have stopped them? Would it have been any better if they'd made the pointed comments without the invitations, or handed them out in the hallway, but made sure you were there every time?

I can see where some of you are coming from about not teaching your kids exclusivity (although I still don't think that a child inviting their friends to their birthday is exactly being exclusive), but that's not the same thing as having a school rule about it, imo. You can't cure the mean kids by making rules about it. My son's school has all the "rules" about bullying, but what's going on there now is way worse than when I was there 20 years ago - and the rules weren't in place then. I'm not saying the rules make it worse, but I don't think they help.


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## jane197 (Jan 19, 2007)

I think everyone needs to remember that even if seeing those invitations getting handed out hurts only one child, or makes them feel badly, then maybe that is a good enough reason not to do it.

Kids, at that age, are so insecure, and unsure of themselves - why give them another reason to feel like they are less fortunate, or less popular etc.

The other issue is what are you teaching your child by not pointing out that this could potentially hurt someone. Seizing this as a perfect learning opportunity to teach compassion maybe the best way to approach the subject. Kids don't come to these morals all on their own - they learn by example from the adults around them.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

I really, really, really don't get why this is even an issue. Why don't people just mail the invitations? This is what we ALWAYS did in my family. I think it would be terribly rude to hand out invitations in a room full of people and only invite some of them.

Example: I'm at the company party. I've decided to have a little party in a few weeks to celebrate finally getting rid of that nasty toe fungus I had for seventeen years. I hand out seven Fungus-Free invites to those people I want at my Fungus-Free party. That's just rude! And I think it's equally rude if I'm a secretary or if I'm the president of the company, but if I'm the president I probably care much less about the feelings of those who aren't getting invited than if I'm a secretary.

But it's not so much about "hurt feelings" as it is about common courtesy. Kids will always get hurt feelings and if I'm not the host and I hear about the party a week later at work I'll realize I wasn't invited to the Fungus-Free bash. Darn, that might make me feel bad. But that's life. Common courtesy might spare a few feelings, but the main point is that it's impolite to do anything but mail invitations if you're going to only invite certain people. And quite honestly, some kids enjoy singling out their "favorites" with an invite. I think it's inappropriate to encourage that by not simply mailing invitations.

I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.

People also never RSVP, and that really gets my goat too! It's so impolite, when you're invited, to fail to respond to the host to let him/her know whether you're coming or not. But that's a different vent!









Julia
dd 10 mos


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 

I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.



It really is a big challenge for a kindergartener to know his friend's last names and get addresses from children who don't even know their own phone numbers. Luckily the teacher quietly slipped invites into backpacks for me. Publishing everyone in a directory without permission would be a violation of privacy. We tried to get one together for my son's kindergarten class and we couldn't get anyone to return the slip to allow their number in the book. Usually a teach is willing to help you find a way to be discreet.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 
I really, really, really don't get why this is even an issue. Why don't people just mail the invitations? This is what we ALWAYS did in my family. I think it would be terribly rude to hand out invitations in a room full of people and only invite some of them.

It's an issue for several reasons. As I've mentioned in other threads on this subject (and maybe even in this one), when ds1 was little, I couldn't afford to mail invitations. I was scrounging change to buy cake mix and balloons for the party in the first place. Postage was out of the question.

I've also never heard of or seen children mailing out invitations to parties. DS1 has probably been invited to about 50 parties since kindergarten, and _all_ of the invititations been handed out at school. Until I came here, and found about this rule in some schools, I'd never heard of doing it any other way. I honestly would have wondered a little about the family if I'd received an invitation in the mail for a kindergarten party...like maybe they were rich or really "upper class" or something, and would ds1 even be comfortable at their party. (At least now I know not to worry about that - it's a difference in perception, and I suspect it's at least partly regional.)

Quote:

Common courtesy might spare a few feelings, but the main point is that it's impolite to do anything but mail invitations if you're going to only invite certain people. And quite honestly, some kids enjoy *singling out their "favorites" with an invite*. I think it's inappropriate to encourage that by not simply mailing invitations.
I think the part I bolded is why I have so much trouble with this whole concept. Who on earth is talking about "singling out their favourites"? I'm talking about kids inviting their _friends_ to their birthday party. I'm not sure why anyone would think that someone would want to celebrate with someone else just because they happened to be in the same class at school. I certainly don't see it as having anything to do with picking favourites. If my son _were_ "singling out favourites" in the sense this thread is talking about, the way he chose to deliver invitations is the least of the problems we'd be having.

Quote:

I never had any trouble obtaining mailing addresses for my friends - they were published in the school phone/address book. Before we had one of those, I knew their last names and if they were coming to my house for a party, my mom generally knew their parents. It isn't a big challenge to collect a few addresses, IMO.
I knew several of ds1's friend's last names in kindergarten and grade one. I didn't know their parent's last names. DS1 is now in grade eight...I know his best friend's full name, and his dad's full name, and his mom's name, and his mom's boyfriend's name, and I know all their phone numbers and addresses - but I just realized that I have no clue what his mom's last name is. They've been "best friends" for three years. I just found out that another friend's last name has changed - I don't know when, but I've known him and his mom since the boys were in kindergarten. Our schools don't do a directory.

Quote:

People also never RSVP, and that really gets my goat too! It's so impolite, when you're invited, to fail to respond to the host to let him/her know whether you're coming or not. But that's a different vent!








Yeah - that's a real PITA. I actually went to one of ds1's friends houses on the day of the party once. I wanted to find out if he was coming. He answered the door in a t-shirt and underwear, and didn't seem to understand my question. I heard someone upstairs yelling "who the f*** is it? Close the f***ing door...and gave up". These days, I just roll with it if I don't hear from people and assume they'll be here.


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## dorothybaez (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momtoatweenandteen* 

As far as I remember, our school policy has been that unless you invite the entire class, the invitations have to be mailed, hand delivered and so forth.
Of course, not all parents abide by this rule!







:

I personally feel this is very rude and insensitive on the parent's part.

I agree with you.....it is seriously rude, and shows a definite lack in the upbringing of the parents.









If your child feels bad about being left out, tell her what I wrote above.

Dorothy


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