# Is it time to call social services?



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

So there is this neighbor girl. We will call her A. She has lived across the street for quite a while off an on. Her grandma and a bunch of other relatatives share a duplex. So it was quite a while before I realized she didn't live there. the kid is a terror. I cought her busting out my windows one day. She was six. rocks in one hand, doll and stroller and diaper bag in the other, plastic high heels on her feet. good heavens. ok. So I decide I can call the cops on this little vandle or just sick it up and always keep her in my line of vision. I chose the second. She grows on you. kinda like an adorable fungus. She is about 8 1/2 now. Practically lives over here. I feed her frequently. she keeps clothes over here. (my children are not allowed in her family's house. I don't really know about all the men over there and what I do nknow is no good)

So last year she actually moved in across the street. Her dad was already in prison and her mom had just gone to jail. something about her auntie lived with them and went upstairs and killed a guy but when they saw the house they were living in her mom went to jail and they lost their home. Not sure about the finer details. (the murder charges were dropped. turned out to be a drunken accident and then he passed out. he would have been fine but since he was too drunk to get to the hospital he bled to death. he wasn't stabbed, just grazed himself on the knife. anyway the distric attorney essentially decided this was all to stupid and ruled it a completely accidental death and gave the auntie time served for her involvement or something). And mom is an alcholic.

So the other day it was like 8PM on a school night and A shows up at my house and asks to come in and play with the girls. I tell her no. She says, well no one is at any of my houses and the doors are locked. I think they went to the soup kitchen to eat. well ok, can't let a seven year old hang out in the dark in this neighborhood. So then she asks if she can have something to eat. no one to watch her. no one fed her. grrrrr.

So then again she is over playing. Ok A time to go home. she says, No one is home. I say go check. surely they are home by now. Sent my oldest dd with her to walk her home (her and her mom were living a block or two up the street) no one there. she she leaves a note "sleeping over be home tomorrow" eight years old. barely. and a small 8 at that. So then I send her across the streeet with a note for her grandma telling her where A was and leaving my phone numnber. ask her where T, her 14 year old sister is. "Oh she went drinking with my mom" do I need to even start with what all is wrong with such a short sentence. I guess T was supposed to be watching her but mom needed a designated driver or drinking buddy or something and grandma and the aunties went to play Bingo but who can blame them. No one told them they were babysitting. In the mean time I have abducted a minor and said good night prayers with her and tucked her into bed. without anyones permission. I don't even know if that is legal. Grandma comes over around 11, apologizes, explains T was supposed to be babysitting, I assured her a sleepover was fine if she was ok with it. She was. She is a good lady.

I don't know if I mentioned this but A is the youngest of like 6 kids (and like 10 step siblings). T is the only one I know. Her mom looks 12 but clearly is much older. I don't think any of the guys at the house across the street are her brothers so i don't know where they are but they are clearly not taking responsibility for her.

So tonight, 7:30, knock on the door. I open it up irritated and start with "no they cannot play. it is late and dark and cold" she almost cried. She looked up and asked if she could come in because she didn't have anywhere to go. of course come in. and hour later she asked if we had any left over supper because she was hungry. She had been out playing and when she came in everyone was gone. ITS FREAKING 5 BELOW ZERO OUTSIDE!!!!!!! and then when her family did decide to come and get her at 9 they were irritated that iot was taking so long. really? irritated because you had to go find the BABY!!! the one you ditched. the one you didn't even know was missing? You are lucky you found her in my house and not dead in a freaking snow bank. mOK so I am a little mad. It is cold. like really cold. below zero with high winds on top of it. Not even safe to be playing in really. and she was cold and hungry. and she could have died. what if I wasn't home? what if I hadn't opened my door?

OK so up until this point I have been here for her. and have been happy to do so. she is like a daughter to me. BUT this was dangerous. Like her grandma I cannot sit artound all day waiting for someone to dump her on me. and what if I am not here one day and she has no where else to go. I hate calling social services. Do I have any other options? What if I call and they do nothing? this poor kid has no one responsible for her. Her alcohoilic mom is not going to do it. She just isn't. Her sister can't be responsible. She is only 14 and is getting sucked into the mess the rest of the family is in. and her grandma is old. and is still taking care of a bunch of disfunctional adults and several other grandchildren.

urgh, I am so frustrated. A is so sweet, and smart and it makes me mad to see her treated this way. I am scared for her. at the same time I am worried that if I call social services things will only get worse.

can someone just tell me what to do....because I just don;t know.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Seriously? You haven't called the police or CPS yet? Sometimes you just have to, as much as you hate to.

(I'd call the police. Leaving a child in sub-freezing temperatures --and taking another one drinking--is a crime.)


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## Stephenie (Oct 11, 2007)

You have to call. What happens when you aren't home? You can't be the only person looking out for this sweet child. Call and get some help for her. Please.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Dude, I would have called a while ago! What would happen to her if they left her out in -5 degrees and you weren't home? Poor babe!


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

In a word, yes.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I would call at this point. And I'm not one who would be quick to suggest that. I have a situation with a neighbor girl that is no where near as bad as yours, and my DH has said we should call. So yeah, I don't think things will get worse if you let CPS know, chances are they will get better for the little girl. I bet with so many different adults and teens around, a big part of the problem is everyone assuming someone else is keeping track of the child.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Oh wow...yes call. Now. Please.


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## ElaynesMom (May 24, 2008)

I know it must be awful to have to call, but please do. This little girl needs more help than you can give (though it has been sweet of you to help her).


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

I'm sure that when she is an adult, she will be able to say "thank you" for calling. Please call.


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

What if something really terrible does happen, but you never made the call? Could you live with yourself?

Please call.


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## LVale (May 4, 2004)

My stars and garters, call already!


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Call.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree with the suggestion of calling the police and CPS. The police will take immediate action-- because that is really dangerous child endangerment, leaving her without access to the house when it is that cold.

And CPS because they will try to help the family, and the child.

But I wouldn't hesitate to call the cops--call the police non-emergency line and give them the details you've shared with us. I would leave out the stuff about the mom taking the other child drinking, though... You want to help the little girl and not bring trouble on the family... You are a good neighbor.

I know that really stinks, but she could die. And eight is way too little to have to deal with stuff like that.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I would call.


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## bnhmama (Nov 28, 2006)

I'd call and I would not leave out the info about the 14 y/o. Someone needs to help that child, too.

This one is really black and white to me. Those kids NEED someone to help.


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## MovingMomma (Apr 28, 2004)

Why wouldn't you call?








Poor kiddo.


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## Dingletwitz (Nov 4, 2009)

I'd absolutely call the next time she comes over...and I'd tell the kiddo that I needed to call the helpers, because it's not okay that she has nobody home. You're in a potentially dangerous situation by having her over with no parental permission--it would be horrifying if you actually got in some kind of trouble by helping keep her safe--and of course are potentially enabling the family--oh, and I'd call the local p.d. -- filing a report with DSS might take a bit of response time and you probably need an immediate response.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yes, call. She's only 8 and a half years old. She's losing any hope of a normal childhood and you can't be home all the time to rescue her.


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## LoMaH (May 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
I would call at this point. And I'm not one who would be quick to suggest that.

Absolutely call in this case because the child is *repeatedly* placed in danger (against the elements, hungry, unsupervised) and apparently isn't in the care of one specific person.

I wish there were courses available to the majority of folks so that they can have a better idea of what exactly constitutes abuse and what doesn't. Although, there are many cases that don't fit neatly into a box, it seems there are cases where people are too quick to want to call/intervene that don't constitute abuse (ex. alternative parenting choices). And other cases like the above where people aren't quite sure.

I like the way Drummer's Wife put it "_I don't think things will get worse if you let CPS know, chances are they will get better for the little girl._ ."


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## butterfly_mommy (Oct 22, 2007)

You are obviously a very caring person who wants to help this child, you need to call and get her help. If they do nothing call again, call every time she ends up abandoned on your door step. She needs you to get her and her siblings help. Thank you.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Please call the police and help that poor girl!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *carmel23* 
I agree with the suggestion of calling the police and CPS. The police will take immediate action-- because that is really dangerous child endangerment, leaving her without access to the house when it is that cold.

And CPS because they will try to help the family, and the child.

But I wouldn't hesitate to call the cops--call the police non-emergency line and give them the details you've shared with us. I would leave out the stuff about the mom taking the other child drinking, though... You want to help the little girl and not bring trouble on the family... You are a good neighbor.

I know that really stinks, but she could die. And eight is way too little to have to deal with stuff like that.


Heck, call the emergency line. It's a crime.

(And they'll respond a lot faster that way. You don't want to get charged with kidnapping for having this child overnight when the parents don't know about it.)

And I just want to add that the OP wouldn't be "bringing trouble" on this family. They've managed to bring the trouble on, all by themselves.


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## CorasMama (May 10, 2002)

*It is your moral duty to call social services.* There is no question about it in this situation. You have to call.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

As tough and cruddy as it is, you have got to call!!!!!!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

first decide on how much you want to be involved. figure out what you want to do.

and then decide.

do you know how common this behaviour is?

has been for years.

do you know how many neighbours have 'unofficially' adopted children just like your neighbours.

its like the village.

your focus is the little girl. do you feel comfortable in having her come to you when she is in a bind. almost live with you?

one of my friends is your neighbours little girl and was brought up by the neighbourhood.

the only reason why i suggest this is because you already have established a relationship. poor girl has already learnt at this young age to kinda hide stuff rather than lay the blame on the family. she has at least one place to go to.

social services is always there as your last resort.

but depending on how her being in my house is affecting my family, i would either call or not call social serv.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

you know the scenario you describe is not so unusual.

esp in low income areas this kinda of situation is unfortunately v. common.

where the next door neighbour or someone on the block takes over watching that child.

however it depends on what you want to do. do you want to take on the responsibility? would you ask her to come to you if she was ever left alone? or needed a place. basically have her move into your house half the time.

my friend was raised that way. and right now a teenager is living with her best friends family because things are getting worse at home.

so really the decision is upto you.

call social services or be the 'foster' parent yourself.

and focus just on her. not her whole family.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Meemee, this poor little one needs more than that







I don't think that treating her like a stray cat, with a friendly house that will give her food and shelter, is a substitute for a proper family.

Lilyka, please make the call. Call the police if it's imminent danger, social services if it isn't.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

If you call, I hope you're ready for trouble, because that sounds like a big scary family that will suddenly start screeching about how much they love their little girl once CPS gets involved.

I would, partially for my own safety, talk with the grandmother first. It would be better if she started the process to have her daughter's parental rights extinguished. There may be other relatives who can take the little girl in.


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## LoMaH (May 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
you know the scenario you describe is not so unusual. esp in low income areas this kinda of situation is unfortunately v. common.

where the next door neighbour or someone on the block takes over watching that child.

Yes, in some areas, this scenario is very very common.
However, the circumstances surrounding each of these cases varies, so it's important to have some pertinent info first.

For ex: A latchkey child wanders the neighborhood because s/he lives with a single parent who's working and can't afford childcare. In that case, it's fine for someone able/kind enough to offer their supervision of the child while the parent's at work -instead of automatically reporting them.

Or- A child doesn't have proper clothing for the weather because of poverty, or the parent can't afford food at the end of the month, definitely why not assist them if one could?

Or- A child has behavioral issues (runs off on their own, rebels) that the parent/s is unable to address... then you can suggest resources to help them out if they're unaware of them.

In the case lilyka describes, it seems like the child is completely neglected (they're at bingo or out drinking) and some agency might be the only hope for intervention. This could come in the form of parenting classes or a social worker checking up on them, or simply letting them know that the child must be fed, properly clothed, have access to get in the house. (depends on the social worker, the agency, what other relatives are able to take this child).

As for lilyka's involvement in caring for the child, it could mean trouble if the family doesn't welcome her help.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama* 
If you call, I hope you're ready for trouble, because that sounds like a big scary family that will suddenly start screeching about how much they love their little girl once CPS gets involved.

I would, partially for my own safety, talk with the grandmother first. It would be better if she started the process to have her daughter's parental rights extinguished. There may be other relatives who can take the little girl in.

It could be the school, it could be another neighbor, it could be a police cruiser who sees a child in sub-zero weather. The GM obviously knows about this terrible situation--she's been to the OP's house to pick her up. I have to agree w/ a PP who wrote that the OP is enabling this family. I don't think the OP talking to them is going to change a thing.









OP, you've been a real guardian angel to this child but you can't do it all. Please, call social services and get her some help.


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## AutumnW (Jan 8, 2006)

My first thought was that if you were not home and this girl wandered on at night in freezing temps and ended up at a gas station or someplace they would keep her there and call the police. I myself would be a little scared of the wrath of the family but I think calling and just not letting anyone know it was you could be good.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Big hugs to you, mama!

Is she locked out in the cold? Or is no one home but she can get in? There is a difference safety-wise.

I would also ascertain for myself that no one was home before making the call. I have had neighbourhood children lie about being locked out and whether parents were home because they did not want to go home. It happens.

I actually have btdt and this is what I would do:

If I truly wanted state involvement and was not concerned about being anonymous, I would call the police the next time she was at your house and no one was home. There is the "proof" of their neglect - it is the best chance you have for state intervention. If she was truly "locked" out of the house this is what I would do. It is a safety issue - and you cannot be home all the time "just in case". I would call everytime this happenned.

If you simply call CPS (anonymously or otherwise) they will go to the house on their scheduel. If adults are home, there is food in the fridge, there is no meth lab, she has a bed, and squalor is not present - not much will happen.

I have called on a neighbour (medical and educational neglect, emotional abuse, untreated mental disorder) - but because they had food, and a bed, and did not seem to be drug addicts, nothing came of it as far as I can tell.

As little happenned over my call - I am very happy I insisted on being anonymous about it. The girl still comes over here all the time and I can watch out for her somewhat. This may not have been the case if her mother clued in that I was the caller.

Another hug to you! Honestly, I know how stressing all of this is to deal with - please take care of yourself. Bless you for watching out for this child - it matters.

kathy


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## HeatherAtHome (Apr 4, 2009)

I would definitely call. I don't see why everyone thinks CPS is the devil. They're there for situations like this! Call!

ETA: Please!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

kathymuggle is right--more will happen with the police than with CPS.


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## buckeye_bebe (May 16, 2006)

I don't know all the sides of the story here, but based on your side, the girl needs help. The girl needs help that you are not responsible to provide, nor have the resources to. That said, maybe some calls could be made to get her the help she needs from appropriate resources. I think you are a great person for providing her with all the help you have been providing, but it might be time to get more help.


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

I would not call CPS I'd call the cops next time she's locked out, cold, hungry and no one is about.
If you call CPS, they come by in the day when they can, the cops take action immediately, they will see no one is there and make a report of it and call CPS to make arraignments, so it will be a lot more effective. That poor child. I'd worry, she's locked out in the cold when you aren't there to rescue her.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Heck, call the emergency line. It's a crime.

(And they'll respond a lot faster that way. You don't want to get charged with kidnapping for having this child overnight when the parents don't know about it.)

And I just want to add that the OP wouldn't be "bringing trouble" on this family. They've managed to bring the trouble on, all by themselves.

yeah, I guess I wouldn't want to alienate the family for the sake of the relationship with the little girl. Because the family will probably know and then talk about how terrible the OP is, etc. I don't know. I guess no matter what this might happen, and the urgency means that the little girl would be helped for sure. So I guess you are right.

my oldest is eight. I couldn't imagine this happening to him


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathymuggle* 
As little happenned over my call - I am very happy I insisted on being anonymous about it. The girl still comes over here all the time and I can watch out for her somewhat. This may not have been the case if her mother clued in that I was the caller.

kathy

yeah, not being able to help the little girl is at risk by calling 911...

OP







Do what you think/feel is right. It might take more then one call....


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## Lucy Alden (Jun 15, 2009)

Personally, I'd call CPS anonymously so you can maintain your relationship with the little girl and continue to help her. If they don't take appropriate action then I'd call the police.

Thank you so much for being there for her. I grew up with foster sisters and know how heartbreaking the stories of abuse and abandonment can be. No matter how bad her family looks from the outside I'm sure it's worse from the inside.

Please call now.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Seriously? You haven't called the police or CPS yet? Sometimes you just have to, as much as you hate to.

(I'd call the police. Leaving a child in sub-freezing temperatures --and taking another one drinking--is a crime.)

Absolutely!


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

I really... truly... completely hope you have called CPS by now. No matter what you dislike about calling them, you have a child who is clearly, absolutely being neglected and SERIOUSLY neglected.

You've been wonderful to step in as you have, and the main thing I wanted to say is, given that you've now developed a relationship with this little girl, calling CPS does NOT have to be the end of your relationship with her.

If she goes into foster care, or really wherever she goes, she's going ot need a stable, normal, healthy, responsible adult who she can call, talk to, and visit ON OCCAISION just to check in with her and be consistent in her life.
When you look at what factors help kids in A's situation to someday still succeed and be ok and not end up homeless, addicted, prostituting, or dead, the number 1 factor that can help A succeed is a relationship with even just ONE regular, responsible, caring adult.

I am NOT saying you are responsible for A. Not at all. But since you really care about her and her welfare, and you've got a relationship with her, and she trusts you and you've been there for her, I want you to know that you may be the adult that makes the hugest difference in her life, as sad as that is abotu the other adults in her life.

I hope you've called, because A deserves at least a chance at being in a stable home where she'll be supervised, fed, and hopefully loved and not neglected. But you can still be in touch with her, give her your phone #, tell her you care for her and you're willing to talk to her if she needs you, and that you'd like to hear from her to know how she is. It's not something you have to do... but if you're willing to do it it's something that can make the biggest difference for her.

Please let us know what happens... and please please call CPS if you havne't already.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

The police need called.
You and your family have been wonderful to her, but she needs more help then you can safely give her.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Anyone who has read many of my posts here knows I'm not the biggest fan of CPS, but this is _exactly_ why we do need an agency like them. Call. I don't know enough about your system to know if the police or CPS are likely to get the best results, but call one or the other. This child could _die_ being left out in that kind of weather.


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## 20605 (Oct 11, 2004)

Update?


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Call. Now. Please.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm with the posters who said that situations like this are why CPS exists. You know a child who is being neglected and needs help. They can help.


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## Lolagirl (Jan 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I'm with the posters who said that situations like this are why CPS exists. You know a child who is being neglected and needs help. They can help.

We had neighbors like this when I was a kid, and my parents did finally call the police and CPS in order to get help for the two siblings in question. It was a suprisingly similar situation to the one described by the OP, two young children left alone in the home almost daily without any supervision, food, or adequate clothing in the colder months. I remember more than one occasion where my parents and other neighbors would sneak food in the windows for these kids because they were afraid to open the front door under penalty of extreme punishment from their parents. I also remember them being locked out from time to time in frigid temperatures with no idea where their parents were.

From what I recall, the kids were temporarily removed from the home, but more importantly the parents were given access to the kinds of services they needed in order to get on track and parent the two kids properly so that they could be reunited as a family. I also would urge you to call the police and CPS yesterday. As someone else pointed out upthread, heaven forbid this little girl be left out in the cold when you are not home some night and she can't find someone else to help her out.

Good luck, and please post an update soon!


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I really hope you've called by now, otherwise please call now.
Poor girl.









Any update, OP?


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

First thing I thought of when you said she showed up at your house was, imagine if you weren't home and she wandered down the street, to a gas station, or fast food store, or whatever, and SOMEone decided to take advantage of her. Or she slipped on ice and fell. Or someone in their car offered her a warm ride.

O.M.G.

Cut and dry case. This poor baby.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lolagirl* 

From what I recall, the kids were temporarily removed from the home, but more importantly the parents were given access to the kinds of services they needed in order to get on track and parent the two kids properly so that they could be reunited as a family.

Good luck, and please post an update soon!

Wow, that is a great response!

I must say, sadly, things do not always turn out this way.

CPS is often overwhelmed and does not help. Even when they do intervene, parents are not always "helpable". You gotta want it. It isn't only "resources" that stand in the way of responsible parenting - it is often long standing patterns and ways of being.

Foster care is often OK - and often is not









I absolutley think the OP should call the cops or CPS (and I lean strongly towards cops) and should do it anonymously - but I also think she needs to have a plan for how to help this girl if CPS falls through. Because it happens.

She could talk to the girl about what to do if it is cold out/she is locked out and the OP isn't home. Where she should go (grandma, then gas station, etc). I think some children really do need a community to watch over them and help them make it to adulthood.

Kathy


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

I think everyone can agree that this child and family need help! I personally would call the police the next time the child shows up at my door, I would make sure no one isnt home and then call. In our state police or medical prof. reported abuse or neglect takes a higher priority investigation wise over call in "anonymous" reports. Because of them either being a witness or "concern" or "proof" or have reason to report to CPS. I would then inform the officer that this child has been to my house x times and in what condition.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I would report it.









How sad.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

thanks everyone. sorry I did not give an update sooner. My 7 year old has either walking pnumonia or pertussis which means we spent hours at the Dr. office today, dealing not only with a really bad cough but the whole vaccine issue (not our usual cool dr......) Ava (my dd) injured herself while coughing last night and i needed to take her to the Er but couldn't because A was here....

One of the reasons I hesitate to call is because it will be turned over to whatever tribal social services (I forget their offical names) and that sometimes can go very bad.

I wanted to call the police last night but gees, she comes to the one person she can trust and gets hauled off by the police. heart breaking. I couldn't do it.

but I am calling social services now. during the summer it was annoying. but I really don't know where she would have gone if I weren't home. I don't know whatis up with her mom. I know she came and hid in my house once when her mom came to get her. her family knew where she was, her mom had just gotten out of jail and was drunk. I am sure that was less than legal but even though she is a very strong, tough street wise child, she looked terrified. what could I do? (by the way, I live in the hood. no doubt about it. If i seem like I have a high tolerance for all of this it is because it is a way of life around here.







) but it was cold last night. very cold. deadly cold. There are several houses she could have gone to. she comes to mine first because sheknows I won't turn her away, will feed her and she can watch her grandmas house from here. I am sure her grandma wouldn't leave her if she was actually in charge. but like a previous poster mentioned no one is in charge and everyone thinks someone else is minding the baby. A is old enough to run around the neighborhood with friends and cousins but not old enough to be comepletely on her own without an open home to go to.

Someone needs to talk to the family and make a plan. but i think it owuld be better if it came from a neutral third party. I know social workers are already involved hopefully they can address it smoothly.....

ok off to call....


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

You're doing the right thing.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

In that situation I can understand why you hesitated. I don't know exactly how their Social Services is, they are all different but I hope that family gets some help.


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## Jackies Ladybug (Jun 19, 2008)

in the mean time maybe you can either give her a spare key if you know she can keep that a secret or let her know some options of what to do if you are not home (arrange with a neighbor/ fire department or such nearby, something so she doesnt freeze to death if locked out again and you're not home.

what a sad situation. i hope social services helps.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

and it's really too bad you can't just say, "hey, I'm gonna raise your kid, ok?" and have that be that.


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## Momma2Gianna (Oct 18, 2009)

Dear Original Poster -

You have obviously agonized with a tough decision and in my eyes, made the right choice. How lucky for that child that you are there to provide the much-needed rescue from what is quite obviously a dangerous and severely neglectful situation. I am not sure if you are religious at all, but I am, and I certainly don't mean to offend, but I need to say it: God bless you.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Call. And I never say call. But please call. Please.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

While I would have automatically called....your update has given me more to think about







I would go talk to Grandma about what's going on. See if there is a set of numbers, like emergency contacts that you could have in a situation like this (where A shows up in a freezing storm and no one to watch her or place to go) so that you can call Grandma to help. I would also tell grandma that you like A, and that she's a good girl at your house, you are concerned that this is dangerous for her and that you want to help, but not to be walked on!

I hope you are going to keep us all updated in the future...I'm subbing, poor baby.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jackies Ladybug* 
in the mean time maybe you can either give her a spare key if you know she can keep that a secret or let her know some options of what to do if you are not home (arrange with a neighbor/ fire department or such nearby, something so she doesnt freeze to death if locked out again and you're not home.

what a sad situation. i hope social services helps.

Wait, I'm having a duh moment over here--why doesn't A have a key to her OWN house? I'd have the conversation w/ GM that someone else mentioned and tell her she MUST give A a key or she may possibly freeze to death. Talk to GM today if possible--tell her you were at the ER last night and can't be responsible for A not freezing to death--you're happy to keep an eye out (??) but the child MUST be able to get into her own freaking house.

GL OP, you're the right thing. And I hope your dd feels better!


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

How heartbreaking for that little girl. I hope she (and her family) get the help they so desperately need.


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## BrittneyMarie (Nov 11, 2009)

that poor child. it breaks my heart that such horrible people are blessed with such great kids and totally take them for ganted.


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## Pepper44 (May 16, 2006)

It's so difficult to make a choice like that. Calling and getting help for her sounds like a wonderful plan, but at the same time once you call everything regarding her is out of your control and you won't know that she's safe in foster care.







However, I would probably call too...the risk that something terrible will happen to her on the streets seems greater than the risk that she might end up in a bad foster care situation.

If you do end up having to call the police, I would gently explain to her first what is going to happen. Remind her that you care about her and tell her she deserves better care, and that the police are going to help her, and that she hasn't done anything wrong. Hopefully at age 8 she'd be old enough to at least understand somewhat.


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## mandib50 (Oct 26, 2004)

what a difficult situation. so sad for that little girl







thank goodness she has you, regardless of what happens


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## confustication (Mar 18, 2006)

I live about a state away from where you are, and have had the same weather lately. I've been reluctant to allow my kids out at all except during the warmest parts of the day because of how bitterly cold it has been. My eight year old- even bundled up- was bordering on hypothermia after about 10 minutes outside.

I also know the issues with the tribal social services, but if she is a member of a tribe, they will be the ones who will step in, and if they choose, they will be the ones most able to effect change. This sounds all too familiar a story though- and is a reality for many of the kids on the reservations.

FWIW, having faced a similar situation, I called without hesitation. I'd make the same choice again.


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## Jackies Ladybug (Jun 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newbymom05* 
Wait, I'm having a duh moment over here--why doesn't A have a key to her OWN house? I'd have the conversation w/ GM that someone else mentioned and tell her she MUST give A a key or she may possibly freeze to death. Talk to GM today if possible--tell her you were at the ER last night and can't be responsible for A not freezing to death--you're happy to keep an eye out (??) but the child MUST be able to get into her own freaking house.

GL OP, you're the right thing. And I hope your dd feels better!

you know, i didnt even think about that! i would definitely make sure she gets a key to her own place if you can.
i guess i thought of giving a key to your place as a way to minimize conversation with the other family if you truely think they dont have her best interests in mind.


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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm so glad you're calling. Please let us know how it goes.

Did you warn A or give A a heads up about what was likely to happen, and why you called? If you didn't already do that, next time you see A you should. Explain to her that it's not fair to her that she's got nowhere to go when it's late or cold or both. That you want her to be safe but you worry that there will be a time when you're not home and she's got nowhere to go. And if you feel this way also tell her how much you care about her and what a good girl she is (that's going to be important because she's going to be made to feel like a "bad girl" probably by her family for social services getting involved - most families blame the child if the adults are really messing up).

Also - and basically I'm just trying to tell you the things to say (if you feel them/they are true) that will help A not feel rejected - tell her that she can still call you or come by anytime she needs help, and that you want to stay in touch with her no matter where she is. Again, a healthy stable relationship with one single adult is a HUGE HUGE factor in a child succeeding through all the crap that poor A has had to deal with. If you feel comfortable offering that continued contact to her, make sure she's got your phone # & really be clear with her that you care and want to still be in touch with her.

And I do have the same question a PP had - have you talked to the grandmother about this whole situation? Bottom line Soc Services and/or police needed to be called because this is too serious a situation and A really is at very high risk for danger, but is there a reason you never approached the Grandmother about your concerns or asked why A doesn't have a key to grandma's house?

You're smart to have called, please let us know what happened when you did. A's so lucky to have someone like you who really cares about what happens to her.

And just FYI, you said A is streetsmart but seemed terrified of her mom. That's not suprising at all - the kids with the hardest shells usually get that way from having to endure serious stress/harshness/abuse at home. Just like on these boards where people manage to cope in the rest of the world but even as adults we struggle to not be impacted negatively by our parents, children can be hard as rock on their exterior but a parent can break them down in seconds with a look, a word, a smack, or other behaviors. That's the person who's supposed to have nurtured and protected you in this world, and not only have they let you down, they've hurt you. Even kids who stand up to abusive/neglectful parents are often terrified of them.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Oh this poor neglected little kid







I hope you've called by now. Keep us posted.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I've been thinking about this thread for a few days and haven't posted because I didn't know how to articulate my thoughts. Here goes...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
One of the reasons I hesitate to call is because it will be turned over to whatever tribal social services (I forget their offical names) and *that sometimes can go very bad.*

I have no idea what that means, but I also don't know how it can be any worse for her than what she has now. By bad, do you mean convoluted in the sense of stability/foster homes/court appointed rulings? If so, the instability in this case is worth it to make sure an 8 year old girl isn't outside in sub zero temperatures.

This isn't a case of dishes in the sink and a grubby neighbor kid. *She could die* if you're not home to help her when her own family won't.

Quote:

Ava (my dd) injured herself while coughing last night and i needed to take her to the Er but couldn't because A was here...
This is troubling. You're denying medical treatment to your own child because you've decided to take on the responsibility of this child.

Quote:

I wanted to call the police last night but gees, she comes to the one person she can trust and gets hauled off by the police. heart breaking. I couldn't do it.
I can understand you not wanting to break her trust, but she's 8, she shouldn't HAVE to trust you, the neighbor. She's doing so because she has no choice, and at 8 years old recognizes that in severe weather she has no other choice but to knock on the door of a person who's relatively familiar and nice. Preserving a trusted relationship with an 8 year old who is *dependent* on you is perpetuating the situation that she's in by continuing to be a safety net for her _mother_. You've been kind to this girl in times of need, but the person you're helping is her Violation Of A "Mother". The help you're offering her is short term, and she'll end up living a tortured life for the next ten years if she has to say under the care of that woman. I can't imagine how tribal social services could be worse than leaving a child in a situation where she's being repeatedly locked out in sub ZERO temperatures. You cannot stay home every night waiting for her. And you can't put your own children on hold (not taking one to the ER) to do so.

I like the recommendation a previous poster made of explaining it to her so she knows WHY the police are being called. Normally at 8 years old I wouldn't recommend telling a kid that you're going to report her mother for neglect, but I think in this case it might be a good idea to let her know that SHE has not done anything wrong, and that she is more than welcome to call you anytime she needs too.

I think what you've done so far is way beyond what a lot of people do (sadly, nobody wants "to get in involved" these days), but I just think that when we're in the middle of the situation and our emotions are involved it's hard to have an objective opinion. It too would find it absolutely heartbreaking to call the police if I took in a neighbor child, but what her mother is doing is absolutely 100% negligent, wrong, and criminal in my opinion and I could not LET her do that to her daughter one more day. I don't know if I'd have the objective clarity to see that in the moment, hence the reason I'm being fairly blunt about it.

It's not an easy decision, by any means. Everyone has agreed with you on that. But it's one that, in my opinion, absolutely has to be made. I've come back to this thread hoping to see an update and there wasn't one, so I'm urging you, in case you haven't, to PLEASE call the authorities the next time she is locked out in the cold.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
thanks everyone. sorry I did not give an update sooner. My 7 year old has either walking pnumonia or pertussis which means we spent hours at the Dr. office today, dealing not only with a really bad cough but the whole vaccine issue (not our usual cool dr......) Ava (my dd) injured herself while coughing last night and i needed to take her to the Er but couldn't because A was here....

One of the reasons I hesitate to call is because it will be turned over to whatever tribal social services (I forget their offical names) and that sometimes can go very bad.

I wanted to call the police last night but gees, she comes to the one person she can trust and gets hauled off by the police. heart breaking. I couldn't do it.
*
but I am calling social services now.* during the summer it was annoying. but I really don't know where she would have gone if I weren't home. I don't know whatis up with her mom. I know she came and hid in my house once when her mom came to get her. her family knew where she was, her mom had just gotten out of jail and was drunk. I am sure that was less than legal but even though she is a very strong, tough street wise child, she looked terrified. what could I do? (by the way, I live in the hood. no doubt about it. If i seem like I have a high tolerance for all of this it is because it is a way of life around here.







) but it was cold last night. very cold. deadly cold. There are several houses she could have gone to. she comes to mine first because sheknows I won't turn her away, will feed her and she can watch her grandmas house from here. I am sure her grandma wouldn't leave her if she was actually in charge. but like a previous poster mentioned no one is in charge and everyone thinks someone else is minding the baby. A is old enough to run around the neighborhood with friends and cousins but not old enough to be comepletely on her own without an open home to go to.

Someone needs to talk to the family and make a plan. but i think it owuld be better if it came from a neutral third party. I know social workers are already involved hopefully they can address it smoothly.....

*ok off to call....*

Excellent!









I think it's shocking and sad that *social workers are already involved* in this situation and this little girl is still slipping through the cracks.







It occurred to me that as her mom has already been in and out of jail it's possible that A already has a case worker assigned to her...?

Let us know what comes of your phone call.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)




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## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

OP we're all thinking of you and A... what's the latest?


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

. I'm so glad you called. Seems to me it's a matter of life or death. This kid could freeze to death.


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## Comtessa (Sep 16, 2008)

*Lilyka*, I know I speak for lots of us when I say we're all thinking about your situation - my household has been keeping you and A in our prayers.

Please update us when you can!


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## 2xshy (Nov 27, 2007)

I almost always say no to these should i call CPS threads, but if it is exactly like you are describing then i am so glad you called.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

"hug


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

I hope this little girl finds the help that she needs.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

So you are saying that whether you like it or not, you are about the only person this little girl has got?

If I was in your shoes there is absolutely no way on this planet would I call CPS. I wouldn't do it because this is a sure way for this little girl to be lost for good.

At 8 years old it is quite likely she will be shuffled from point A to point B and then to point C and back again to point A after which she goes to point D. She's will never have a place to live, and she will be living out of a suitcase. I believe that there are good foster parents, I believe there are more worse ones. I believe the worst ones are more prevalent than the other two. Don't you think about the abuse she might be subject too on a much larger scale than just not having parents home?

I couldn't do it. There is just no way I could turn her over to the state and wonder and worry about what's going to happen next to her. I would let her stay at my house, I would feed her, I would clothe her. I would do all of this because I would be the only chance she would have to see what a normal, stable life would be and feel like. I would do it because she needs me. I would do it because more than anything I would want her to be safe and happy and secure.

I know that is probably NOT what anyone here is going to say. From your tone it sounds like it is the LAST thing you want to do. But I wanted to say that from everything I know about CPS, there is no way I would ever turn a child over to that organization.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
I know that is probably NOT what anyone here is going to say. From your tone it sounds like it is the LAST thing you want to do. But I wanted to say that from everything I know about CPS, there is no way I would ever turn a child over to that organization.

eh. I have a pretty intimate relationship with CPS. I know a pretty good deal about the agency. Have seen its good and definitely its bad.

I think your post is on the extreme side.

For one thing, calling CPS doesn't automatically mean foster care. Heck, there is a social worker already involved here, so most likely CPS has been called multiple times in the past and so far it hasn't meant foster care.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
eh. I have a pretty intimate relationship with CPS. I know a pretty good deal about the agency. Have seen its good and definitely its bad.

I think your post is on the extreme side.

For one thing, calling CPS doesn't automatically mean foster care. Heck, there is a social worker already involved here, so most likely CPS has been called multiple times in the past and so far it hasn't meant foster care.


Maybe it is extreme...but just the thought of yet one more child being thrown to the mercy of an already inept government run organization just makes me







. I feel so sorry for the little girl. Her situation is sad and unfair.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I agree with Sierra. This situation may not even end up with the child being removed. But, I believe (as a foster parent and someone who has many friends who work for/with CPS) that there are more good than bad foster parents.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

What Sierra and Polliwog said. And I'm also a foster parent and I know many others that are foster parents, and many that work with CPS too.


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## Super_mommy (Nov 13, 2009)

Hey, its high time you did that&#8230;


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super_mommy* 
Hey, its high time you did that&#8230;









Are you referring to the OP??

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
but I am calling social services now. -- ok off to call....


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
But I wanted to say that from everything I know about CPS, *there is no way I would ever* turn a child over to that organization.

Ever? The OP is in a position where she is neglecting medical care for her own children because she doesn't feel it's morally right to cart a neighbor kid off in the car without parental consent.

She is now in a position where it comes down to A, the neighbor kid she wants to do right by, or her own family. She's going to find herself in a position where she will eventually have to _break the law_ in order to continue being a guardian to a child that she has not been appointed as guardian _to_. Nobel, sure. But she has children of her own, of which she owes her attention to, and her ability to parent in the capacity that she is now could be compromised by getting in trouble for carrying out guardian duties unofficially for a neighbor kid.

And you know.. I'm all for feeding the neighbor kids lunch if they seem hungry. Or even giving them clothes, toys, and offering to babysit and such. But we're talking about the OP making herself available to this child 100% of the time, *or else she might freeze to death*. She's not being a kind neighbor and modeling a stable family life. She's saving this kids life and can only do so as long as her OWN family is healthy and able to go along with the demands of caring for this kid.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Ever? The OP is in a position where she is neglecting medical care for her own children because she doesn't feel it's morally right to cart a neighbor kid off in the car without parental consent.

She is now in a position where it comes down to A, the neighbor kid she wants to do right by, or her own family. She's going to find herself in a position where she will eventually have to _break the law_ in order to continue being a guardian to a child that she has not been appointed as guardian _to_. Nobel, sure. But she has children of her own, of which she owes her attention to, and her ability to parent in the capacity that she is now could be compromised by getting in trouble for carrying out guardian duties unofficially for a neighbor kid.

And you know.. I'm all for feeding the neighbor kids lunch if they seem hungry. Or even giving them clothes, toys, and offering to babysit and such. But we're talking about the OP making herself available to this child 100% of the time, *or else she might freeze to death*. She's not being a kind neighbor and modeling a stable family life. She's saving this kids life and can only do so as long as her OWN family is healthy and able to go along with the demands of caring for this kid.


I guess it depends on how much you really want to put yourself out for another person.







It sounds like (from what the OP has said) that the little girl's family is persona non gratae any way. So would they even care or have a clue whether or not the little girl was being taken care of? In the original post the OP said the family just took off without the little girl, locked the house and left her to whatever. It was cold right? She had place to go?

Another issue is that CPS has already been over there AT LEAST once already. Wow. They are really on top of that situation aren't they?

So, yeah if it was me, she would just be part of my family. If she needed a place to go she would know to come to my house. If she was at my house and I had to leave she'd come with me, if she couldn't go back to her other house.

Like I said...it just depends on how much you really want to do for another person. If it's too much, if it puts you out beyond your capabilities then I guess you don't have another choice right?

By the way, I KNOW there are many many foster parents who are truly good.....but its seems to me that it must be the rare exception where all the abused foster children seem to turn up at.









For me it wouldn't even be a question. I'd just do it, take care of her. I guess it's probably because I have 9 children of my own....what's one more to me anyway.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

you have to call the police when she is at your house and no one is home. they will take her to her houses to check. this way they will file a report about it and let childrens aid know. if you call childrens aid they dont come out right away. so there is no "proof" she was left alone. it is your word against theirs.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 

Another issue is that CPS has already been over there AT LEAST once already. Wow. They are really on top of that situation aren't they?


Dealing with CPS on an almost daily basis, I can tell you that most likely they got a referral for some reason. They are mandated to come out within a specific amount of time, and investigate the complaint. Where I live, it is generally 72 hours (3 days).

Whatever the complaint was about, it could have been remedied by the time CPS got to the home. At which point, the allegation is found to be unsubstantiated and the case/referral closed. There would be no further involvement or visits.

So, let's say you call and tell them that the child is left w/o a coat at outside with no one home at 3 am. CPS gets this call on Saturday morning. An intake/investigator is assigned when the call comes in. She will come out on Monday, talk see that the child is happy in the home, with no obvious issues. They will ask the parents about why on Saturday at 3 am there daughter was running around with no coat on and no one at home. They will lie and say that it is not true, that she was safe in her bed. They have no proof. They completed the investigation and have no grounds for further assistance. Case closed.

Now, let's say same thing as above. Instead of calling CPS, you call the police. They take her to the home, find no one answering the door they call CPS, child is placed by Police in custody of CPS at whatever time they get there (probably by say 4 or 5 am Saturday morning). Now, CPS comes out Monday to talk to the parents. No matter how much they try to deny, they have police and police reports to document. They now open a case and start making referrals and monitoring the situation. If no further problems w/in a period of time case closed. If further problems, they may go to Court and get the Courts involved.

I am not saying CPS is perfect. But in some cases bad things happen, and it is not always their fault. They follow the Guidelines set out by the State. They contract with agencies to provide foster care, those agencies are supposed to follow state guidelines as well. Good agencies follow it to a T, there are bad agencies that falsify documents or neglect to do all the background checks.

I have had CPS deny children going to a relative placement, because 10+ years prior to this case happening, a relative had a criminal conviction for anything (including such things as theft or DUI, or bad check passing). So, instead of being able to recommend family placement with this person, they have to recommend foster care.

Also, sometimes Judges overrule CPS, and place a child in a home against the wishes of CPS, and things turn bad.

My point - CPS is not always at fault when bad things happen. They are not always 100% right either, they do make mistakes. CPS employees are human, and just like all humans they make mistakes.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
But I wanted to say that from everything I know about CPS, there is no way I would ever turn a child over to that organization.

Just wanted to point out that some of us are mandated reporters for our jobs and have no choice.

OP, I think you did the right thing in this situation!


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

In some states, including my own, EVERYONE is a mandated reporter. Of course, its not particularly common knowledge, and it still doesnt stop most folks from not getting involved.


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## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
I guess it depends on how much you really want to put yourself out for another person.







It sounds like (from what the OP has said) that the little girl's family is persona non gratae any way. So would they even care or have a clue whether or not the little girl was being taken care of? In the original post the OP said the family just took off without the little girl, locked the house and left her to whatever. It was cold right? She had place to go?

Another issue is that CPS has already been over there AT LEAST once already. Wow. They are really on top of that situation aren't they?

So, yeah if it was me, she would just be part of my family. If she needed a place to go she would know to come to my house. If she was at my house and I had to leave she'd come with me, if she couldn't go back to her other house.

Like I said...it just depends on how much you really want to do for another person. If it's too much, if it puts you out beyond your capabilities then I guess you don't have another choice right?

By the way, I KNOW there are many many foster parents who are truly good.....but its seems to me that it must be the rare exception where all the abused foster children seem to turn up at.









For me it wouldn't even be a question. I'd just do it, take care of her. I guess it's probably because I have 9 children of my own....what's one more to me anyway.









So uh, what's the little girl supposed to do when it's below freezing & the OP isn't at home for some reason to take her in?


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## PurpleFireFlies (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm glad to here you did call CPS....and you should be commended for looking out for this little girl in need


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## neetling (Jan 24, 2006)

OP - I think you did the right thing by calling.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Did you end up calling? I didn't see an update. What was the outcome?


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## sleepingbeauty (Sep 1, 2007)

please call. Report them to CPS. A friend had a childhood like that and she's never recovered. My best friend and I are raising her children because she screwed it up so bad because she never knew what a family is supposed to be like.

Please call. It is the best you can do for this little girl. It will only get worse from here if you don't.


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## Aridel (Apr 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momo7* 
I guess it depends on how much you really want to put yourself out for another person.







It sounds like (from what the OP has said) that the little girl's family is persona non gratae any way. So would they even care or have a clue whether or not the little girl was being taken care of? In the original post the OP said the family just took off without the little girl, locked the house and left her to whatever. It was cold right? She had place to go?

Another issue is that CPS has already been over there AT LEAST once already. Wow. They are really on top of that situation aren't they?

So, yeah if it was me, she would just be part of my family. If she needed a place to go she would know to come to my house. If she was at my house and I had to leave she'd come with me, if she couldn't go back to her other house.

Like I said...it just depends on how much you really want to do for another person. If it's too much, if it puts you out beyond your capabilities then I guess you don't have another choice right?

By the way, I KNOW there are many many foster parents who are truly good.....but its seems to me that it must be the rare exception where all the abused foster children seem to turn up at.









For me it wouldn't even be a question. I'd just do it, take care of her. I guess it's probably because I have 9 children of my own....what's one more to me anyway.









I wouldn't call CPS in a lot of situations where other people may; I'm all for supporting the family and helping the little girl. But the OP is not just in the position of going out of her way for this child; she is in the position of knowing the little girl may freeze to death if the OP is out of town. So if the OP is ever out shopping, at the ER, on vacation, visiting a friend, that means that the child may be locked outside in deadly temperatures - and that's not over-dramatic, cold can kill kids, especially the kind of cold the OP has described. I get supporting needy children; I used to have a neighbor kid who wandered in every day practically to our house, and she was one of the gang. But she wouldn't have died if I wasn't home, and I would never have been in the position of deciding to get medical care for my child or to break the law to take her with me. Whether or not she gets called on it, taking A anywhere without permission could potentially cause the OP a ton of trouble, especially since A's family doesn't know where she is. I wouldn't call CPS over a messy house, or a parent who didn't supervise to the levels I feel are what kids need, but there is a difference between that and risking a child's life. A repeated history of calls can also make a difference in how the case is handled; a family with a half-dozen calls from a few different neighbors about leaving a child outside in the snow might (hopefully) get a different approach than a family with one call that has no evidence to back it up.

Foster care is a broken system in a lot of ways, no doubt about it. But a call to CPS doesn't always mean foster care, and foster care can be necessary for some children.


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## pixiekisses (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm wondering how it's going, OP, I've been thinking about A.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiekisses* 
I'm wondering how it's going, OP, I've been thinking about A.

Me, too.

Has she been stopping by frequently? Have things gotten better in any way?


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oubliette8* 
In some states, including my own, EVERYONE is a mandated reporter. Of course, its not particularly common knowledge, and it still doesnt stop most folks from not getting involved.

Same with my province, and I think if something happens to the kid its a reverse onus, meaning you are not innocent until proven guilty, you ARE guilty, unless you can prove you are innocent.

Im glad you made the call. Poor kid.


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## Barefoot~Baker (Dec 25, 2008)

I hope everything is ok with you all, lilyka. Hope to hear from you soon.


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