# DS keeps saying that he "Hates Himself!"



## stClaire (Nov 19, 2001)

He has gone through this before, when he gets frustrated he shouts that he "hates himself and wants to die"

It doesn't take much to frustrate him. Just now we were in a bike shop just *looking* at new bikes. We are in the market for them and we wanted to start the search. He gets so whiney in the store when we are talking to the guy that worked there, he just kept interrupting and whining (he will be 7 in a few weeks)

When we left w/out buying he just freaked out and kept repeating how much he hated himself (he even hits himself) I don't even know how to approach him....i usually try to acknowledge his feelings ex/"you seem very dissapointed that we didn't get a bike today, were you expecting to get one today??" and that does nothing to comfort him (i guess its better that me just yelling at him to be quiet)

Its getting to the point that i hate taking him anywhere like that bc it just takes over the whole day...he doesn't let it go that easily.

I *definately* don't feel like getting him a bike (esp not a new one) I feel so angry and i feel guilty for being angry at him when he feels so awful.

UUGGHH (thanks for listening) Kelly


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## Lindy (Dec 19, 2001)

You might try looking into food allergies to see if this is the problem. Any books by Doris Rapp or Lendon Smith. I think Doris Rapp has a web page. I have heard of this kind of behavior in allergic children.


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## Lindy (Dec 19, 2001)

OK I think this is the web page for Dr. Doris Rapp

www.sameboat.org/drrapp/


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## Lindy (Dec 19, 2001)

one more website.

www.smithsez.com/articles.html

This may give some information on food allergies. The reason I'm so big on this is because my ds has major allergies, and the diet he is on literally has saved his life. Good luck, and I may be totally wrong about it, but I thought I'd just give you something to think about.


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## stClaire (Nov 19, 2001)

Lindy,
Thank you for reminding me of the whole food allergy thing, i suspected it before and have been so frustrated trying to get him to eat anything that is not cheese or bread.... When he was a tot he was sensitive to dairy and esp soy (which was a staple for us)

Since you cannot force a child to eat things they do not want to, i'm not sure how i would implement dietary restrictions (??) How did you do it Lindy? How old is your child?

I will go follow those links now
















Blessings, Kelly


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## Lindy (Dec 19, 2001)

I found out my ds had a dairy allergy when he was a baby, so it wasn't hard to restrict dairy at that time. But has he got older he got more allergies and it was harder to restrict food because he had his own preferences. If everyone else around him was having pizza, of course he would want it to. So I was kind of lazy about the whole thing. So now he is 17 and on a diet, and he regulates himself because he wants to feel good. I wish I had some good advice for you, but I don't know how to make somebody eat whats right for them if they don't want to.


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## leafylady (Nov 19, 2001)

These are just a few thoughts. I don't have any real experience with this but an idea popped to mind.
Does he have any way of "earning" the bike, or whatever it is he is asking for that day. Are there things he could do at home to earn money or mom's money credits, things that go a step beyond his daily chores- wash the car, rake, weed, shovel snow? (He ought to do free chores too on a daily or weekly basis.) Then perhaps you could turn the disappointment and whining into an opportunity to do something constructive that he can feel good about. I don't think it matters if he really follows through on everything he wants, just that he knows there are concrete things he can do to achieve it- an alternative to the whining- a way to achieve something and to like himself for.
Then when the whining starts, you could avoid the empathy talk, which is not working in this case. You could start off by talking postively about his savings of money or mom's money credits, talk about how much more he has to go, and stress the positives.


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## kel (Nov 20, 2001)

Another thing, though I totally agree with the food allergy possibility, is that lots of 6 yr. olds are just really whiney! Mine and a number of his friends are. My ds also went through a period of saying he hated himself, not quite so extreme as yours, but he was saying it for a while, and saying he wished he was dead, too! I tried not yo make too big a deal out of it, although its hard to hear! With mine, I think it was mostly just the age he's at - a kind of interest in saying something with so much weight, especially when he was frustrated about something. xo


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

My ds also went through that at age 6/7. He also has food allergies.....a connection, maybe? Also, I think they know that saying those things gets a reaction. About the food thing, my son was allergic to milk as a baby, but developed a tolerance for it later (so I thought). But after years of sinus problems, snoring, behaviors, etc., I took him off milk and milk products. What a difference!!!! It's been night and day, so much is better! It's been over a year now, and he's so much happier. It was a change, since he loved milk. Everything else was easy to replace, they make non-diary ice cream; but soy or rice milk doesn't taste like milk, and he loved cheese (and we found all the soy cheeses gross). However, he's adjusted. We get pizza w/out cheese, just the sauce and toppings.......margarine instead of butter (be careful, some margarine contains milk products), juice popsicles, etc. Good luck!


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## stClaire (Nov 19, 2001)

Thank you everyone for your replies,

Leafylady, that is a good point, helping him earn the bike. He had saved up some $$ and had it with him but these bikes were around $250.00 for a kids bike which he will outgrow. I think we will look in the papaer for a used one.

This kind of thing happens alot not always related to something like this. He just gets it in his mind that he is going to start a fight and then he locks in on some reason (in this case the bike)

When he is in that state (like a temper tantrum) using empathy doesn't work...when i say nothing he just gets louder and escalates (which is not fair to those around us ) If i take him home he will not spend time in his room, is scared to be alone, but is *impossible* to be around, he won't relent....i usually end up losing my temper(which is what he wants).
I'm still trying to figure it out, he just gets so oppositional and mean and it comes out of the blue.

Kel, I agree that some of this is age related and choosing words with so much *Drama* I just never know whether or not to believe them when they talk about wanting to "be dead" So hard to hear









Blessings, Kelly


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## kykarraliv (Jan 26, 2002)

allergies or no, it is his reaction to dissapointment that needs to be addressed. Saying he "hates himself" or "wants to die" is not acceptable behavior. I personally think that while look into the allergy thing his behavior needs correcting. You might say something like," I know you really want that bike, but, you are not allowed to say you hate yourself. It sounds as if you are really angry/ dissapointed (ect). I wish you could have that bike right now. Do you have any ideas on how we might help you save for it?" If he continues talking about hating himself reflect back to him his feelings so he learns to say how he feels, while reinforcing that saying we hates himself is unacceptable. Talking about wanting to die is a little scary. Maybe he should be checked for depression. Boys sometimes express depression as anger.
Kim mom to Kyla(16), Karra(13), Rachel(11), Olivia(2 1/2), Annika(5 months) and her







twin Hannah


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## kykarraliv (Jan 26, 2002)

Another thought. We would not allow our children to hit others, I use the same type of reasoning if they start hitting themselves,"you are not allowed to hit anyone including yourself." Sometimes drawing helps children to express their feelings. If this type of self destructive behavior (destructive self talk) continues you might speak with a councelor you trust for some tips and ideas how to redirect his behavior.
Kim


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## stClaire (Nov 19, 2001)

Kim,

Thank you so much for addressing that behavoir (which is my main reason for posting)
The wording you used, i have used almost the exact same words, esp hitting yourself/others not being acceptable. Its just that when he is acting up like that, nothing i say will get through to him, he is locked into the response.
He responds to dissapointment like this (always has) It is scary to hear his seeming self loathing, i was wondering if this is common. He has acted this way ever since 3 years old, alternating with being very sweet.

Most/if not all of the therapists around here for children are "medication managers" as far as i've heard or experienced. Many good ones will not see children. What i would love to find is someone who would use art along with talking (?)

I must go, craziness ensues around here (getting ready for school)

Blessings, Kelly


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## kykarraliv (Jan 26, 2002)

I know medication can be very scary. There are some therapists out there who reach for meds before trying anything else. I tend to shy away from medicationing behavioral problems myself. My 16 yr old though is on Zoloft and it has not changed her personality or activity level. She is still my most emotional "expressive" child. What it has done is taken her frustration level down a notch to where she can manage her reactions. Don't get me wrong, my daughter is a wonderful girl, we love her very much. It is aslo unacceptable in our society to have mental health difficulties. She also has epilepsy which if her synapses are misfiring it would be logical that it would affect her emotions. Also if you are looking for a therapist look for one that uses play therapy, and one who specializes in children. A good place to ask would be your peditrician or homeopathic dr. Sometimes things get bigger then even the best of us can handle. Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying your son needs meds. I am saying just don't absolutely block the idea. His behavior is not healthy nor is it normal. I am sure he is a wonderful child. You sound like wondeful parents, he is very lucky. Best of luck.
Kim


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## Ishtarbella (Nov 19, 2001)

i totally feel for you!!!i was going to post the same thing!My son says the same thing and i felt like i must be the worst mother in the world!!!Mine is 5 and keeps saying that ,also the other night told me he wished i was dead!!!i dont know if its from all the stress hes gone thru in his life or if hes just using strong language or what............im a bit afraid to try therapy as well......my son has always seemed sensative and will hit himself too,all the discapline techniques that work for others has been different when i try them.......when he was a baby he seemed to have colic .......i carried him everywhere because he could never be out down.he always seemed sensative to everything,he shocked me at 3 when a guest was rude to him and he shouted to her that he was going to throw her into the street and let her get hit by a car!he went thru a biting phase....hes mellowed out alot however the hating himself scares me ,i felt that way as a kid but i was alot older ......my son seems to get easily offended and then hold grudges ,lately i feel because of the sensativity issues and the way he reacts to upsetments and the things hes been saying to people i feel like its hard to have freinds and get out like id like,anything helpfull ill definatly share it with you....also,my son everyone says seems older than he is and has alsos been very verbal earlier ...............take care,huggs!


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I just want to say that no matter what the cause, things will probably turn out all right. It sounds like a few of you are having the same problem and are really frustrated and scared. When I was a kid, I was the only among my siblings who had similar behaviors. I didn't hit myself, but starting around the age of 5 (my mom said just after I started Kindergarten, and she thinks in my case that my very cruel teacher was a big part of the problem) I would say things like "I wish I was dead," and even, "I want to kill you," or "I hope you die."









My parents were also AP, and given the unique nature of these behaviors, it took them a long time to sort out the best way to respond. We did end up getting some "family" therapy at one point, and I don't think we had the right therapist, but had we gone to someone else, I think it would have helped.

My dad always had an easier time handling the situation than my mom. My dad would usually say something simple to the effect of, "I'm sorry" (and he was very genuine about it), and then he would refuse to involve himself anymore in my private drama. In other words, he acknowledged my feelings to prevent escalation, and then he ignored my behavior so that he wouldn't feed into it. It wasn't a miracle cure, but looking back, over time it was the most helpful approach in terms of helping me learn to deal with my emotions. At the very least, it always did much more good than my mom's approach, which usually involved a variety of desperate acts, from trying to reason with me to trying to comfort me to getting angry at me and involving her feelings in my personal drama.

I would think that the best approach for each kid with this problem has got to be customized to fit the kid. For kids who are affected by allergies, obviously working on an alternative diet would be the first step to healing. For kids with anger-management problems, preventative behavior-shaping activities might work well.

No matter what, though, this too shall pass. Next time your kid starts acting like a crazed lunatic, just think of me







LOL.


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## stClaire (Nov 19, 2001)

Thank you, These replies are so helpfull to me.









Kim, I do have a hard time trusting Psych Drs unless i have a reliable refferal (bases on a horrendous experience i had myself)...i will keep asking, and i think you make good points. I feel that DS's behavoir goes beyond normal 6/7 yo actions. He has been known to say horrible things about other people when he is sooo angry he doesn't know what else to do .
I am having to reexamine my views on meds bc of something i am going through myself, which i know is affecting my DS, he has always been so responsive and sensitive to the things i go through (and lately it has been a lot)

Ishtarbella, My DS sounds alot like yours, as a baby he was ultrasensitive and luckily i am an AP mom and held and nursed him alot. He would sometimes get overwhelmed if someone sat beside him in the car (his carseat was in the backseat) I had to remind people not to try to interact with DS lest he start crying...That sounds pretty strange doesn't it? i suppose it was bc he was a baby and the whole car..out in the world scenario was too much for him and if you added a person trying to talk to him...well, forget it.

Sierra,

Bless you for sharing that about yourself...truth be known, i was alot like that as well, though i didn't have AP parents ,and i needed the physicall attatchment bc of being adopted... I did/do have very loving parents and i threw them for a loop. I said awful things though i don't remember saying that i wanted to die.
One thing i worry about is that DS will end up having some of the problems that i have and continue to have (though i'm hoping to be getting better when spring comes)
It is good to hear thet you are doing well now and the behavoir didn't follow you into adulthood.

Blessings , Kelly


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## kykarraliv (Jan 26, 2002)

I hear you. Finding a good and trustworthy physc. is not a thing you want to do by searching the yellow pages. Sounds as if this problem is more than you and your dh can handle alone. Do not dispair, there is an answer out there and you can find it. Your son was very blessed to have been born to 2 wonderful parents who care so much for him. Good luck and keep trying the answers will come. Hope you feel better too.







This little guy is how I feel sometimes.LOL


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## Ishtarbella (Nov 19, 2001)

Im sop glad we cal all come here and share!!!......My son too,i had to remind peoplenot totalk to him,he was a bit older though,2s and 3s..........VERY DIFFICULT taking the crowded public bus!!!Now its hard when people approach and say thw "wrong thing " for example he has beutifull curly long hair and if thats what people mentione first thing....oh no!.hes insecure after being made fun of by it .he loves it and doesnt want it cut either............he gets easily scared and that kind of thing.when i was young id have feeling like that because of all the things i would go thru as a child,i wasnt 5 ,at 5 i remember being happy still...........i feel guilty over this too as i have suffered an anxoiety disorder and hes had to see me go thru that and i wasnt always the Mother i anted to be.............i started out being this great AP mom and then wit hall the problems ,some days making it thru the day would be tough...........you know ,also i never did read any of those books like spirited child........those were recomended to me however i never wanted to "label"him or anything.does that make sense?Well best wishes to us all.......well find the help we need ,i just know it


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

stClaire,
I have a son who just turned 8. He does this too. I don't remember when he started doing this. He will say that he hates himself, hit himself in the head or pull his hair. This happens when he gets in trouble for something or when he is disappointed.
We talk about how it doesn't help anything for him to do this, that it only hurts him. I also explain that some schitzophrenic children do this and that it worries me. So far he still does it, maybe not as frequently as he did at first. Some things I think you just keep reminding them and eventually they grow out of it. JMHO.


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