# Sex offender next door...WWYD?



## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My neighbor/friend's sister gets updates from the Iowa SOR and she said that there is a sex offender living in our building (we're in an apartment) he is RIGHT next door to my friend (and her 3 kids 5 and under) and I'm across the hall but on the other side of the building (hard to explain, we have private entrances and Friend and I share a hallway and then her private entrance goes to the south of the building, mine to the north...her interior door to the north, mine to the south) this guy does NOT have access to our hallway.

Anyway, so he's there...he's from out of state so I can't get a whole lot of information about him, other than the conviction was in 2006, he'd have been 23 or 24 and it was 'sexual exploitation of a minor' thats all I get, no age of victim no sex of victim.

So now what do I do?? What about letting the kids play? My neighbor has a better yard than I do so we let the kids play on her side a lot...but that's like 15 feet from this guys door...we CANNOT play on my side our apt grounds share grounds with a quarter horse breaking business, my side is full of unbroke quarter horses, they are dangerous sometimes.

Moving isn't really an option, we don't have the money, we don't have anywhere else to move to...we're stuck.

This guy just moved in earlier this week...

Ugh, this freaks me out...

It might all be a moot point...I'm going to see if I can beg a couple people I know at the sheriffs office to get me the info and go from there, if it's him with his 17 y/o gf...well but by the grace of God go I







...but if it's a REAL sex offender??? thats completely different...no matter HOW 'rehabilitated' he is/how he paid his debt to society, I don't care...you can't fix that, I don't believe you can fix that at all...you just can't...


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

I don't see that you can do anything other than supervise your kids.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

You know mama, I would be a little freaked out if I were in your shoes too. But the truth of it is that this guy is simply a known potential threat.

There are lots of other unknown threats that our children have to be protected against, including sex offenders who have never been caught, or have not yet made their first move and are simply waiting for the opportunity.

Your job as mom is to make sure your kids never present that opportunity. I highly recommend reading "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin De Becker.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

This is why I don't like sex offender registries... if people are not safe to be in society they should be locked up, if a perpetrator wants to hurt a child they will find a child no matter what directories their names are on are.

Given that he wasn't in jail very long and the label is vague, it was probably either a minor offense (like having a consentual relationship with a 16 y/o girl- which is _rightfully_ illegal and _definitely_ qualifies him for an idiot of the year reward but is definitely different than a serial pedophile) or the case was weak and he made a plea deal. I don't know which. Try running his name and state through google news to see if you get any hits.

Generally children are abused by people they and their parents know (moms BF, uncle Joe, pastor Sam, teacher Sue, etc). Stranger abuse is relatively rare, and there are things kids should know (good touch/bad touch, it's always ok to tell mommy and daddy anything, correct labeling of both girl and boy body parts, etc) that can help with intervening if something inappropriate happens. A big part is making sure the lines of communication are there, your child feels safe telling you anything, and your child is equipped with the language to tell you want is happening.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chimpmandee* 
You know mama, I would be a little freaked out if I were in your shoes too. But the truth of it is that this guy is simply a known potential threat.

*There are lots of other unknown threats that our children have to be protected against, including sex offenders who have never been caught, or have not yet made their first move and are simply waiting for the opportunity.*

Your job as mom is to make sure your kids never present that opportunity. *I highly recommend reading "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin De Becker.*

Bold mine.








:


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## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

We had an offender live next door to us for a few months. It totally freaked me and my neighbors out. We talked with the kids about it, told them they were not to go into the house for any reason, and we got the bus stop changed so they weren't waiting at the house.

When we talked about it, we didn't mention 'sex offender' to the kids - just that he was a man who was not safe, and that they were to tell us if he talked to them, and they were to just come inside if he did try to approach them.

I wouldn't consider moving because a sex offender moved in. He could easily move out, and someone else move in. Talk to your kids, and be aware. Read Protecting the Gift - it has lots of good information in it.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

A big "yeah that" to much of what was said. Don't do anything different; any random guy who lived in that apartment *could be* a sex offender, and you shouldn't be relying on a criminal registry to tell you what is safe for your kids.

The whole idea of criminal registries just screams to me that there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with the way we handle crime and criminals... we're just flat-out admitting that, if anything, imprisonment makes people MORE likely to commit crime, not less. And drug offenders are now registered in much the same way... a friend of mine from college served three years in Federal prison for transporting drugs across a state line for personal use, and when she was living with her parents after release, a neighbor of theirs (who was a cop) came knocking on the door, asking her mom "It says you have a drug offender living here! What gives?" Her mom, bless her (and I don't often use that term... I'm an atheist) said "That's my daughter, not a criminal" and closed the door on him.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I am so glad to see so many calm, reasonable responses here.

There is a registered offender living in a complex at the end of our street. The neighbors tipped me off to him when we first moved in and they saw my then 4 year old playing in the side and front yard.

When I looked it up I saw that the conviction was more than 10 years ago and was for a crime involving an adolescent. I can't remember what the wording was but it screamed statutory rape rather than a violent act or abusing a small child.

Not one of my neighbors (5 different families) let any of there children play outside at all unless a parent is present because of this guy. These kids are all 7 and up, old enough to aware of their surroundings.

I just feel like that is crazy.

I agree with the PP's. Supervise your kids. Don't live in fear.


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamesMama* 
My neighbor/friend's sister gets updates from the Iowa SOR and she said that there is a sex offender living in our building (we're in an apartment) he is RIGHT next door to my friend (and her 3 kids 5 and under) and I'm across the hall but on the other side of the building (hard to explain, we have private entrances and Friend and I share a hallway and then her private entrance goes to the south of the building, mine to the north...her interior door to the north, mine to the south) this guy does NOT have access to our hallway.

Anyway, so he's there...he's from out of state so I can't get a whole lot of information about him, other than the conviction was in 2006, he'd have been 23 or 24 and it was 'sexual exploitation of a minor' thats all I get, no age of victim no sex of victim.

So now what do I do?? What about letting the kids play? My neighbor has a better yard than I do so we let the kids play on her side a lot...but that's like 15 feet from this guys door...we CANNOT play on my side our apt grounds share grounds with a quarter horse breaking business, my side is full of unbroke quarter horses, they are dangerous sometimes.

Moving isn't really an option, we don't have the money, we don't have anywhere else to move to...we're stuck.

This guy just moved in earlier this week...

Ugh, this freaks me out...

It might all be a moot point...I'm going to see if I can beg a couple people I know at the sheriffs office to get me the info and go from there, if it's him with his 17 y/o gf...well but by the grace of God go I







...but if it's a REAL sex offender??? thats completely different...no matter HOW 'rehabilitated' he is/how he paid his debt to society, I don't care...you can't fix that, I don't believe you can fix that at all...you just can't...

depending on the laws, it could well have been him and a 17yo. I would get more info on the laws in your state before I did anything further.


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## samikashi (Mar 15, 2008)

I don't blame you for feeling uneasy, but the guy has got to live somewhere.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

But the truth of it is that this guy is simply a known potential threat.
Exactly.

For every known sex offender near you, there is at least one unknown. I'm more worried about those who have yet to be caught...


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I see Protecting the Gift has already been mentioned, but I wanted to invite you to join us in discussing it in the Book Clubs forum.

Here's the first thread for it:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1020434


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Call your local police department and find out what local laws require. I know that some states require the offender to notify their immediate neighbors, i.e. going door to door with a flyer. If your area requires it and he didn't do it it could be a violation of some sort.You might be able to get him removed from this location. It might be worth at least checking.

If that isn't an issue at least you know. Best wishes mamma.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

wise mamas have given you good advice. Have you thought about going over and saying 'Hi' (sans kiddos) given his age, he probably did have a 17 y/o GF. BUT my SBIL is a registered sex offender and I didn't think anything of it because it was because his GF was young and he went on to rape my best friend. anyways, meet the guy, see if he has a GF meet her, same you should do with any new person that may have contact with your kids.

much love


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## tammyswanson (Feb 19, 2007)

Our one neighbor is a sex offender, he received a M2 (misdemeanor 2) and house arrest for sexually assaulting a 14 year old girl in town when he was a pizza delivery guy. I found that out because I talked to his probation officer on the phone. He's not even listed on the sex offender website in our state, go figure that one out. His brother was a sex offender too, but he went to jail for molesting a cousin. Their mother is a sex offender as well, but never reported as far as I can tell. So, I guess i can say I have more than one offender next door. What can I do? Not much. Just watch my kid so that he stays far far away from them.

I recommend the book also, Protecting the Gift by Gavin De Becker. It's an awesome book. A lot of insight!


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## ChiaraRose (Aug 8, 2005)

I understand how you feel My neighbor is a registered sex offender. Rape by force. So no children involved, but granted that I am a rape survivor and I had been alone at his house before..that made for some not so fun times after my discovery. After calming down and thinking about it, I don't perceive him as such a threat any longer. he is married, had two children and is well known in the community (we live in a very small town). Nobody seems to know about it. I just really don't socialize with them, are always out with my dogs after dark and just be aware. We will be moving out of here in 2 weeks and I am so happy about it.
Sorry, I have no advice, just sympathy,
l.


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## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

My neighbor two houses down is a sex offender too.
I would make your children aware. Tell them they are not to go to Mr. Joe Somebody's house or be alone with him at any time. Other than that though, there isn't much to do. Unfortunately.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I have protecting the gift...just haven't been able to read it, kids and all that.

I've showed James his picture and told him he is The Bad Man and James is not to go near him.

My uncle is a registered sex offender and HE actually makes me a wee bit nervous...and I've known him my whole life (Internet crimes...think to catch a preditor on Dateline)...I work with a guy who is a RSO but his was a 17 y/o gf thing...that I totally get (DH was 21, I was 17 when we were together...but OUR relationship was legal, Iowa's age of consent is 16 and then you can go 5 yrs older).

He's on the other side of the building so it's been bitterly cold so I haven't been out much...I'm thinking of calling the police department and seeing if they will tell me what the deal is...if it's a consentual sex deal then I don't really care...but if it's actually something scary...


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

I watched Little Children last night after I read this post. You might want to rent it. It sure brings up some interesting thoughts on it. I still cant figure out what I would do.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

I know of a guy who found out there was a sex offender in his apartment complex so he contacted the management about it and it turned out that the management did not know that he was living there and that he was not on the lease. They kicked him out.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Here's a thought about singling this person out to your kids...

Ok, now they've been warned. They know not to go in THAT guy's house. So, who here remembers being a little kid? Mommies know everything, right? Mommy said "Don't go in THAT guy's house," but she never said anything about THIS guy! Must be safe, right?

Information frequently swamps our instincts. Teach your children to trust themselves, but also watch and supervise. If they're older, and they may be on their own in the neighborhood, you can give them the information, but also discuss it in context, so that they understand that even if they know this one thing about this one person, there's a lot they DON'T know, and they should always pay attention to how people and situations make them feel, regardless of what someone's told them.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

We've done the 'stranger danger' and the only people they are alone around are people I 100% trust (my parents, my IL's, my best friend and her DH, my other friend and her DH) the people that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt would NEVER harm my kids in anyway...the people that would lay down their lives for my kids...this guy just caused me to further reiterate the "STRANGER DANGER" part...

DS is only 4 so he's not outside alone usually, sometimes he'll go out with my friends kids while we stay inside and watch them out the window.

We've done the 'good touch/bad touch' telling him that NO one is to touch his privates unless he needs them to (poops, he can't wipe his own butt just yet)

There are 12 apartments in my complex...one of them is a former classmate of my friends sister and she vouches for her 'safeness', one is my friend, one is my friends sister, one is a former teacher of DH's who he assures is 100% safe...there are a couple on the far west side that I don't know but the kids would never be down there...too far away.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

nothing else than what has been stated.

except i never do stranger danger with my dd. instead i use the blanket 'no one' wihtout my permission. so at 6 my dd has gotten used to asking me if she can eat teh snack my friend is offering her if i am not within eyesight. i make the assumption that everyone is a sex offender and prepare for it. but i live my life as if every one is NOT.

so apart from supervising there is nothing much you can do.

i live in an area where there are a lot of sex offenders around. and of course i totally buy into the unknown ones.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

I have some knowledge of Sex Offender laws, espeically dealing with the new Adam Walsh Act.

I do believe Iowa has some very severe Sex Offender laws. (BTW, my Uncle is a Police Officer in Iowa).

If you can post what his classification is, I can tell you a bit about it. Also, how close is a daycare/child care facility or school to your apartment?


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamesMama* 

Anyway, so he's there...he's from out of state so I can't get a whole lot of information about him, other than the conviction was in 2006, he'd have been 23 or 24 and it was 'sexual exploitation of a minor' thats all I get, no age of victim no sex of victim.


Sexual Exploitation of minor

A) Minor is a child under the age of 18
B) Sexual Exploitation means that he could do have done a number of different things. It is a catch all phrase. It could be anything from possessing child pornography to encouraging a child to engage in any type of sexual activity.

The other thing to take into consideration, is that the guy could have had a more serious charge, and the prosecutor and child's mother didn't want to go to trial and entered into a plea agreement whereby he plead to a lesser charge which carries minimal to no jail time, instead of putting a child through the trauma of re-living what happened, being cross examined by an aggressive defense attorney, having to go public with everything.

Do to the way our laws are written you really wont get much information on the victim, as to age or gender because the information of the victim is protected.


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## SheepNumber97245 (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey have you been to the sex offender registry website yourself? http://www.familywatchdog.us

If you type in your zip code, little dots pop up like chicken pox. If there isn't one living next door, there's a good chance there's one down the street or next door. I mean it would by like trying to avoid raindrops while walking outside. REALLY sad that there are so many sick people out there, but honestly you can't hide from them. Even if you move, you'll probably still be close to at least one. I think you've done the right thing in just education your kids on what's bad and what to look out for, and to stay away from him. That's really all you can do. *hugs*


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
A big "yeah that" to much of what was said. Don't do anything different; any random guy who lived in that apartment *could be* a sex offender, and you shouldn't be relying on a criminal registry to tell you what is safe for your kids.

The whole idea of criminal registries just screams to me that there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with the way we handle crime and criminals... we're just flat-out admitting that, if anything, imprisonment makes people MORE likely to commit crime, not less.

I am for Sex Offender registeries, because they make known to parents that there is a person in their neighborhood/area to be on the look out for with your children. I prefer to know that the person next door to me was convicted of a sexual crime against a child, this way I can keep an extra watch on this person and my children. I do agree parents need to teach their children about stranger dangers, and what is good/bad touching, but when I know that there is a person who poses a high risk of danger for my children, I can point that person out to them and tell them they are not to interact with that person as they are a dangerous person. There is a lot of research out there that shows that a sexual offender is not really treatable, but you can not just lock every single person up for their life for sexual offense.

And in all honestly, a lot of the Sex Offenders out there were never in prison, many of them, especially those whose sex offense was trivial (ie possession of child pornography) get put on probation/community control. So, I think that the statement that jails make criminals commit more crimes is inaccurate.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Good luck with your husband's transplant. I said a little prayer for him!

As for the sex offender, I have to agree with most of the PPs. You have the talk, you supervise them, you tell them to stay together, but you also need to keep in mind that as so many PPs have said, their greatest risk is someone they know and trust.







Hugs!


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SheepNumber97245* 
Hey have you been to the sex offender registry website yourself? http://www.familywatchdog.us

That's a third party website (someone is using it basically to gain revenue from ad sales)- the actual governments national sex offender registry is http://www.nsopw.gov/Core/Conditions...ookieSupport=1


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## Labbemama (May 23, 2008)

And you know he would be an even bigger idiot to re-offend right where he lives.

We have 3 living within 3 blocks of us...So my kids don't go outside to play unless I can watch them or another parent can or they are in a super large group.

I think it's important to know what the charges are too. Like one of them took dirty pics and posted them and while that is reprehensible the risk to my kids is lower unless I see intenet offender out taking pics.

I think most of the offenders I worked with offended against children who were living in the same home with them or they were invited in as family friends. Not to say that we shouldn't be afraid of the stranger in the bushes but I am more afraid of the wolf I let might let in the front door.

My sister actually had a guy who had offended against children of the same age and gender as her kids living in her apt complex. She was only prompted to look at the registry after she caught him peeking in her windows. He was stealing her half smoked cigarettes. Well like a month after she got an icky feeling about him, someone broke into her apt. She couldn't tell if anything was missing but the sliding glass door was broken. She called the police and this idiot had left prints and he was arrested. Luckily, she was taking precautions and she wasn't home when he broke in. (cuz she probably would have killed him--) But anyhow, they moved on base and she feels much safer cuz my bil is gone a lot. Until she saw his picture on the registry she just thought he was peeping on her. Really scarey.

but most offenders have a "type" and most offenders think about their crimes and how not to get caught. For most it would be too risky to grab a kid in their complex cuz they know the first door the cops will knock on is theirs as the resident registered s.o. It's the indiscriminate ones with impulsivity issues that are rarer and more like this guy who just decided to do it that close.

I had also told her to alert the cops when she found him peeping but she felt embarrassed and that she was making too big a deal out of it because of her own past victim status.

I really hate being right in my nephew's case, but they were safe thanks to her good instincts.

I do believe that for some treatment is helpful but it's like smoking cessation or anything else.

We don't give up on ppl with drunk driving charges for example on their first offense. We don't catch everyone who drinks and drives. But hey if you can avoid being out after last call on Sat night, it doesn't hurt. Same thing.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

The problem with a sex offender registry is the number of people on it for a consentual relationship with a teen 15-18. Those people should NOT be on the registry yet they have to be due to laws.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

As a victim, as a mother, as an attorney I grateful for these the websites and the ability to know who has committed the offense.

As a victim, had they had the registry when I was a child, maybe I wouldn't have been inappropriately touched by this "harmless" looking guy who hung around the parks and rec day camp. Maybe, had they known about this guy, he wouldn't have been allowed at the picnic area where we were eating lunch. Furthermore, maybe I wouldn't have been touched a second time a few years later by our parish priest.

As a parent, I want to know if these offenders are living close by, and what they look like, not only for my safety but for the safety of my children.

As an attorney, I often times hate my job of getting offenders off, but I realize it is my job and it is what I have to do...

Furthermore, the registeries do let people know if the offense was against a child. Most crimes are differentiated between children and adults...You have Rape, and you have Rape of a minor. Furthermore, consensual sex between an adult and a child in the BF/GF situation is generally considered the crime of Statutory Rape...

As for the poor innocent offenders who get labeled and have to register for life, maybe my attitude would change a bit, if I wouldn't have had experience with this as well. My husband hired a guy who we were lead to believe that his "sex offense" was allegations that came out of a divorce. He had to register as the highest level offender at the time. He was a very nice guy, we saw no signs of any issues for several years. Then he changed, and he became a different person --- we eventually found a lot of evidence that he was having contact with multiple minor children.
A letter came in the wrong mailbox - it should have gone into box #2, but was put in box #1. The letter was addressed not to the resident of box #2, but to mutual friend of ours and the resident of box #2. We called them, it wasn't anything he was expecting and authorized us to open it. Low and behold, it was pictures of a minor and love letters. We started digging through employee cell phone records and found where the guy was calling many minors, pretending to be a young boy their age....making arrangements to meet them, sending them gifts, etc...he was still on parole for the allegations against him from the divorce. As a mandated reporter, I had no choice....I called his PO, after calling another criminal law attorney/friend to see what potential criminal liability for the company.
We spent the next few weeks with the business assets in the hands of the PO and FBI and local Sheriff. Everyone involved had to go down and give written and oral statements tot he FBI. Then a few weeks later we were opening up a hard drive we found laying around and found child porn on it. Again, more stuff from the guy who was the culprit...but again we had more dealings with the FBI over the course of 2-3 years. We had to look at pictures and see if we could identify them (people that the offender took pics of and posted as his own image/face)...again these were minor children he took pictures off to claim as his own. Then there was the whole thing about the yahoo web cam spy program he was involved in....

Here is a link that will back up most of the above...
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/millerPlea.htm

This was a first time sex offender. Ohio used to have an independent psychologist trained in sex offender issues evaluate offender's and determine what potential hazard they posed of re-offending or committing additional sex offenses. As of Jan. 1, 2008 Ohio goes by a version of the Adam Walsh Act, where offenders receive a classification based upon the offense they have committed. The higher the Tier of Classification the more sever the crime. Also, Tier 1 offense tend to not be related to children. Child Sex Offenders tend to fall into Tier 2 or 3 offenders.

And yes, it may seem harsh to label a child as a Sex Offender, but the laws are a bit different as it relates to them, even under Adam Walsh Act. There are children who will have to register for life, but if a child rapes a sibling or another child then maybe they need that classification and registration duties. Also, I don't think classified children are made known to the general public.


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## Phantaja (Oct 10, 2006)

I do nothing. I found out a month after I moved in that I live next door to a halfway house for sex offenders. My kids know that they can only play outside together (snatching one kid is easy, two is much harder) that they never, ever to go into anyones house, to stay out of the alley or any place where lots of people and cars don't go by, and to stay within calling distance at all times. If I have to shout a name, they've gone too far. Luckily there's a basketball court right behind us. I can see them outsid from just about any place in our house.

I didn't tell them that the men were sex offenders, I just told them that those guys have hurt people before. They understood.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
The problem with a sex offender registry is the number of people on it for a consentual relationship with a teen 15-18. Those people should NOT be on the registry yet they have to be due to laws.

And that is because those people committed a crime...Statutory Rape...

They knew the person they were about to have sex with was a minor. They know that a minor does not have the "capacity" to consent to sex. They should have said "NO".

If the relationship was consensual then both parents would not have had a problem with them being together and having sex. Most Statutory Rape charges come because the parents of the underaged person do not consent to their child being sexually active before they are adults.

Furthermore, I have dealt with people who have had consensual relationships with minors, as an attorney. Many of them have previous sex offenses, and they DO NOT have consent from the parents to be dating or sleeping with their children.

Most websites will post all offenders regardless of classification. But community notification only goes out on Tier 3 offenders (some Tier 2 who have committed more serious offenses) under the Adam Walsh Act. In Ohio, under our old law, it was only on Sexual preditors every 90 days.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

"If the relationship was consensual then both parents would not have had a problem with them being together and having sex. Most Statutory Rape charges come because the parents of the underaged person do not consent to their child being sexually active before they are adults."

Since when do teenagers ask their parents permission to have sex???


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
"If the relationship was consensual then both parents would not have had a problem with them being together and having sex. Most Statutory Rape charges come because the parents of the underaged person do not consent to their child being sexually active before they are adults."

Since when do teenagers ask their parents permission to have sex???

And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?


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## PajamaMama (Dec 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
The problem with a sex offender registry is the number of people on it for a consentual relationship with a teen 15-18. Those people should NOT be on the registry yet they have to be due to laws.

As the parent of a teen, I respectfully disagree with you.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

I have mixed feelings about the registries but feel very strongly that statutory "rape" offenders should not be listed.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

"And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?"

Answering your "answer" would require a detailed religious discussion, probably a violation of the UA and totally OT to the original discussion. But practically speaking in terms of currently accepted views of sexuality in America and civil "rights" to consent to sex, yes I do.

I find it absolutely absurd that on the day before my birthday I am too immature to consent for sex and the next day I become a criminal if I do. How is it that minors can legally consent to the technologies of reproductive rights but they are legally unable to consent to the acts necessary to make use of them?

And as a "victim" of statutory "rape", I think it is BS. I may regret my experiences, regardless of the age of my partner in crime, but I take full responsibility for them and don't believe any of them should be held criminally responsible for our mutual choices.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)




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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
"And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?"

Answering your "answer" would require a detailed religious discussion, probably a violation of the UA and totally OT to the original discussion. But practically speaking in terms of currently accepted views of sexuality in America and civil "rights" to consent to sex, yes I do.

I find it absolutely absurd that on the day before my birthday I am too immature to consent for sex and the next day I become a criminal if I do. How is it that minors can legally consent to the technologies of reproductive rights but they are legally unable to consent to the acts necessary to make use of them?

And as a "victim" of statutory "rape", I think it is BS. I may regret my experiences, regardless of the age of my partner in crime, but I take full responsibility for them and don't believe any of them should be held criminally responsible for our mutual choices.

As far as I know a minor cannot legally consent to anything. Even if a minor wants to abort a child, the minor has to either have parental permission or go to Court for, what in Ohio is called Judicial Bypass, permission to have the procedure without parental consent. So, technically the child is having an adult make the determination, as if Judge does not grant permission, the child cannot have it done.

Anyone who provides medical treatment for a minor, except in a true emergency situation has to have parental consent, or consent of Court, or legal Guardian. A 17 year old cannot even go have a tooth extracted without the above mentioned consent.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?

Shoulda woulda coulda... they can and will, right or wrong is secondary IMO.

I think the registries are a mess, honestly. A good idea I suppose, gone awry. I can't imagine being a little child and being told "Don't go in THAT MAN'S HOUSE, he is a BAD MAN." Oy, how horrifying! I'm sorry, but I think that is a mistake. How about teaching your child to never go into anyone else's house without your permission, instead?

I was 17 and had sex with a 21 yo (did not ask my mom, either LOL!), and I'm glad that he was not labeled a sex offender for life. Crazy. There is a difference between that and someone who targets little children.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

"Shoulda woulda coulda... they can and will, right or wrong is secondary IMO."

Exactly!


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

"As far as I know a minor cannot legally consent to anything. Even if a minor wants to abort a child"

Colorado law only requires notification and many states allow access to contraception and I seriously doubt anyone id's for condom purchases.

Regardless of whether one agrees with these laws or not, the fact remains that there is a legal schism between being allowed to consent for birth control and being forbidden to consent to sex.

Furthermore, I don't believe it is common knowledge among teenagers that it is illegal for them to consent to sex. Why would they be teaching safe sex in the schools if the government *really* had a problem with them engaging in such activities? So, again it is absurd for us to assume that the day a man (or woman) turns 18 it suddenly occurs to him that he is committing a crime by continuing in his usual activities with his gf.

But in our schismatic laws, somehow he does turn into a criminal and *now* the parents have a weapon against him if they didn't like. Perhaps they previously had forbidden their daughter to see him, but being rebellious *she* chose to ignore their wishes. So he gets to go to jail and be labeled as a sex offender, being required to register on the lists with violent rapists and child abusers and the neighbors start talking.

As to the OP, I appreciate the idea of the registries but this is just one of the problems with them. You really don't know *what* your neighbor did, which means you do need to exercise caution but I wouldn't start holding neighborhood meetings just yet. OTOH, I really believe true sexual predators should not be out walking the streets.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
As far as I know a minor cannot legally consent to anything. Even if a minor wants to abort a child, the minor has to either have parental permission or go to Court for, what in Ohio is called Judicial Bypass, permission to have the procedure without parental consent. So, technically the child is having an adult make the determination, as if Judge does not grant permission, the child cannot have it done.

Anyone who provides medical treatment for a minor, except in a true emergency situation has to have parental consent, or consent of Court, or legal Guardian. A 17 year old cannot even go have a tooth extracted without the above mentioned consent.

this depends entirely on where you live. i grew up in MD and i got birth control without parental consent. i don't think you need to have a parents consent for abortion there either. i moved to va recently and the laws are a little different.. no abortion without a parent. what a stupid law. what if you parent/guardian is the one who got you pg.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
So, again it is absurd for us to assume that the day a man (or woman) turns 18 it suddenly occurs to him that he is committing a crime by continuing in his usual activities with his gf.

But in our schismatic laws, somehow he does turn into a criminal and *now* the parents have a weapon against him if they didn't like. Perhaps they previously had forbidden their daughter to see him, but being rebellious *she* chose to ignore their wishes. So he gets to go to jail and be labeled as a sex offender, being required to register on the lists with violent rapists and child abusers and the neighbors start talking.

Actually many state laws, until the Feds Came up with Adam Walsh Act, were discretionary as to the labeling of anyone as a sexual offender. Once the Feds created Adam Walsh Act, the States had a choice to enact it and what portions it enacted if it did. The problem is that the Feds tied States getting Federal funds into their decision to enact and to what extent to enact the law. So, most States, enacted some version of Adam Walsh Act, which took all discretion out of it, including as to what level offender the person was to register as.

In Ohio, we have a local group of gamers. One of them plead guilty to possession of Child Pornography. Possession of said is technically a sexual offense, and because it was child pornography, it involved a minor. Under the law existing at the time he was convicted the Court referred the matter to a psychologist to make a report on his if he should be labeled a sexual offender and what level of classification if any. He was sentenced to Probation and did not receive any sort of classification. Under our now existing law, he would have been required to register.

Furthermore, if you look up the definition of Statutory Rape, generally it refers to a child victim between 13-16 years of age, with the other party being at least 4 or 5 years older than the child.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

also the age of consent is different in each state. most of them are 16 and within 4 years of your age. if two 12 yr olds have sex do you charge both of them as sex offenders?

i think the sex offender registry is a good thing but sometimes there are stupid laws and stupid convictions that follow you forever. i just looked at mine and apparently NOVA is sex offender headquarters. one of them works at the grocery store we go to. a whole bunch of them are self employed.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

and then you have people like my FIL. he was asked to leave his job at the state department because of child pornography but they didn't flipping press charges. i would never have known if he hadn't told dp and if dp hadn't told me. one of these days they are going to ask why i won't let them see ds unless i am there. that will be a fun conversation. if the stupid state dep had presses charges it would be a lot easier to say look what you did. but now he can just deny it if he wants.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

registries were created after public outcry due to DEAD neighbor children. Ignore them at your and your child's risk.


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## Aleo (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
The problem with a sex offender registry is the number of people on it for a consentual relationship with a teen 15-18. Those people should NOT be on the registry yet they have to be due to laws.









:

i searched familwatchdog.us and according to that site I have 500 or more sex offenders around me and one living crossing the street behind me. But then on the second link provided I search and got none. Even by searching his name...


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## Kelly1101 (Oct 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
"And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?"

Answering your "answer" would require a detailed religious discussion, probably a violation of the UA and totally OT to the original discussion. But practically speaking in terms of currently accepted views of sexuality in America and civil "rights" to consent to sex, yes I do.

I find it absolutely absurd that on the day before my birthday I am too immature to consent for sex and the next day I become a criminal if I do. How is it that minors can legally consent to the technologies of reproductive rights but they are legally unable to consent to the acts necessary to make use of them?

And as a "victim" of statutory "rape", I think it is BS. I may regret my experiences, regardless of the age of my partner in crime, but I take full responsibility for them and don't believe any of them should be held criminally responsible for our mutual choices.


Arbitrary age limits will never be completely accurate... same goes with voting, drinking, what have you.

But there DOES have to be a line somewhere. If you're going to go that way with it and say that if 18 is old enough to have sex, then 17 is, too... now you have a new arbitrary line.

If you don't have an arbitrary line, then we have people arguing that "yeah, I had sex with a 12 year old, but she is so MATURE for her age! She totally knew what she was doing!"

Most statutory rape laws take into account age difference. As in, If you are both 17 years old, and one of you turns 18, it's not suddenly statutory rape. At least not in my state (VA) and my state is not the most liberal in the country.

It may piss off a lot of teenagers that basically the law is telling them that they cannot make their own sexual decisions. That's really just too bad. Until they are not in under the guardianship of their parents, they are considered to be still maturing enough to make these informed decisions.

I do say this as someone who dated guys in their 20's when I was 16. And I can look back now and recognize why the idea of statutory rape exists.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
Furthermore, I don't believe it is common knowledge among teenagers that it is illegal for them to consent to sex. Why would they be teaching safe sex in the schools if the government *really* had a problem with them engaging in such activities?

I was a teenager not too long ago (6 years ago), and everyone I knew was aware of statutory rape, both as a joke and as a concern. This is the era of information, after all. There are movies about it and everything.

It doesn't mean that we didn't do it.

I mean, all teenagers know they shouldn't drink, too. Many of them do anyway. If they get caught, they go to court and get in all kinds of trouble. That, in some ways, is part of the growing-up process (i.e., you break the law, there are consequences... even if you don't LIKE the law).

But certainly I don't think any American teenager could claim ignorance as an excuse in these cases.

And really, I think it's very rare for teenage sex to be reported and prosecuted.

But you think that a mother shouldn't be able to call the cops if some 22 year old man is having sex with her 15 year old daughter?


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
I am for Sex Offender registeries, because they make known to parents that there is a person in their neighborhood/area to be on the look out for with your children. I prefer to know that the person next door to me was convicted of a sexual crime against a child, this way I can keep an extra watch on this person and my children.

...And have a false sense of security because you're keeping an extra watch on THAT person. Maybe the person on the other side of you is *also* a sex offender, but has managed to avoid getting caught. Maybe you're less aware of things that should get your guard up about that person, because of the threat you know about.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
And in all honestly, a lot of the Sex Offenders out there were never in prison, many of them, especially those whose sex offense was trivial (ie possession of child pornography) get put on probation/community control. So, I think that the statement that jails make criminals commit more crimes is inaccurate.

You can think that statement is inaccurate all you want; there's tons and tons of research showing that incarceration increases recidivism. Sure, if they didn't actually get incarcerated, that doesn't apply, but it's still *true*.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
And do you think a teenager is the right person to be making the decision as to when or when not to have sex?

I have to hope so, because I don't think that anyone else is going to have a reasonable chance to make that decision *for* them. When my kids are teenagers, I realize they *will* be out of my sight sometimes. They *will* have social interactions I'm not a part of. By that time, I will have taught them what I can about relationships and sexuality, and I have to rely on them to make decisions that won't screw up their lives. And, especially since I have boys, I'll teach them about statutory rape laws, so they can take that into account too. But my kids are likely going to be more than 6 inches taller than me by the time they're 14 or 15, and there's no chance I'm going to be able to control their lives. I have to lay the groundwork for them to control their own lives and actions well before then.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pranamama* 
registries were created after public outcry due to DEAD neighbor children. Ignore them at your and your child's risk.

I wonder what the stats are on child murder victims whose killers had previously been caught, vs. those killed by people without records. Yes, the outcry was because a child was killed by someone who had been previously caught. After all, what are we supposed to do about the unknown threats? How can we make the government responsible for *those*? (I'm not generally anti-interventionist, but I just think that criminal registries don't do any particular good and stand the chance to do harm.)


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Ironica:

Unless a person physically goes to the Police Department or goes to their State's Sex Offender website, they wont know who the sex offenders in their area are. The only time a Sex Offender's information is mailed out is if they are now under the Adam Walsh Act Tier 3.

Now your state may not have enacted some variation of Adam Walsh yet, so you could be using a different system, but it is generally your State's highest classification who you are made aware of.

And I watch out for a lot, because I don't live in the best of areas in my town. I am quite aware, because of my job, of where the criminal hot spots are (drugs, prostitution, etc). I, unlike a few of my neighbors, will call the police when I see it happening, because I wont live in fear. My children, unfortunately, have a better knowledge of most of criminals and crimes because I work from home and they do overhear conversations.

I used to believe in those studies about recidivism being caused by incarceration, but then I started working in the system. After several years of working in Juvenile and Adult criminal law, I see it quite frequently, the child who is acting out, that they just keep getting progressively worse. As an attorney, when I am appointed to represent these children, I get to see historically what their contact has been with the Juvenile Court. Most of our local Magistrates try their hardest to keep these kids out of detention facilities, but at some point they have no choice, because they just wont stop their behaviors.

I think maybe at one point in time those studies were correct, but in today's world, I see more apathy on the part of parents. They don't care what their children are doing, they don't teach them properly any longer. The children have grown up in a home where a parent has done nothing but criminal actions and they have taught it to their children.

The other day I had a parent refuse to put their child in Counseling any longer because it was interfering with the life style she wants to live. So, that child will continue on getting in trouble, why, because the mom only cares about her life style, not the well being of her child.

I see adult criminals who are given chance after chance after chance by Judges just giving them Probation or Community control sanctions. After about the fifth or sixth time a person is before a Judge for criminal activity, even just very low level felonies, and been put on Probation each time, what is a Judge to do. Obviously that person is not going to correct their behavior through Probation and start leading a law abiding life.

It is rare around where I live for a Felony 4 or 5 offender to get prison time for their first offense. Heck I even see many Felony 3 offenders who just get Probation. Serious Felony Offenders (rape, murder, drug dealers, high dollar theft offenses) are the ones who will generally get prison time for first offenses, but than depending up on the crime it is usually a low amount.

You should go down and sit through a few criminal docket calls in your local court to see what goes on. It is easy to believe those studies, when you have not sat through Court and listened to what really happens....see how many are sent to jail vs probation and what for.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

khaoskat,

It's clear that you're having trouble distinguishing between the causes of initial criminal behavior, and the effect of incarceration on criminal behavior. I wish I could think of a way to explain it that might make sense for you, but I'm concerned that your own biases would interfere with interpretation of the information.

Clearly, we disagree on the role and responsibility of society with respect to criminal behavior. Obviously, parents who won't get their children appropriate help for their issues because it inconveniences them are behaving neglectfully, but our legislation and rules don't always recognize the importance of mental health. I feel that registry laws are a poor substitute for such oversight; you feel they're the best we can hope for.


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## 3pink1blue (Jun 23, 2008)

i personally know a man who is on the SOR here in Michigan for peeing outside.They called it Indecent Exposure, he got no jail time or probation but has to register for 25 years. So check it out before jumping to any conclusions - you just never know.


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
khaoskat,

It's clear that you're having trouble distinguishing between the causes of initial criminal behavior, and the effect of incarceration on criminal behavior. I wish I could think of a way to explain it that might make sense for you, but I'm concerned that your own biases would interfere with interpretation of the information.

Clearly, we disagree on the role and responsibility of society with respect to criminal behavior. Obviously, parents who won't get their children appropriate help for their issues because it inconveniences them are behaving neglectfully, but our legislation and rules don't always recognize the importance of mental health. I feel that registry laws are a poor substitute for such oversight; you feel they're the best we can hope for.

Actually, I am not having trouble distinquishing between the two. There are those who will go on to commit further crimes because of incarceration...but I ask you...how many chances is society going to give say a thief before they put them in jail instead of probation?

I have represented people that have been before the court at least five or six time previous to my representation for the same type of crime (ie theft). Each time they were put on probation/community control previously. Obviously probation and restitution did nothing for them. They followed the rules, got off ASAP, and then went out and started their crimes again.

What you are not considering is that those who are in jail either have a lengthy criminal record or they have committed a serious crime. Most times even a drug dealer or user is given a chance or two or three or four to reform prior to the Court finally saying enough and going from rehabilitation to punishment mode. Most of the Courts I work in, on non-serious felony offense tend to, especially if a first time offender, push for alternatives that even allow the person to escape having the conviction on their record through either diversion of treatment programs.

Like I suggested, go sit down in a couple of criminal docket calls (for felony offenses). Sit down and listen to the Judge when they give out the sentence about what the person has done in the past (their previous criminal record), see how many are actually sent to prison or put on probation.

I do not agree with the way Adam Walsh Act does things. I really preferred our old model in Ohio, where there was discretion for the Court to determine if a person was a sex offender who needed to be classified and what classification that was. That determination was made after the individial had a Sex Offender Assessment.

Unfortunately most States will enact some variation of Adam Walsh Act, because they cannot afford to loose the Federal Funding that is tied to them passing the Act. I also feel that Ohio's Adam Walsh Act violates several constitutional, both State and Federal, provisions, as it is applied ex post facto to an offender who has already been adjudicated and classified. In Ohio, any individual who is on probation or incarcerated as of July 1, 2007 (the day the act was signed, but would not go in to effect Jan. 1, 2008 was reclassified and most got a stricter classification and even if their registration requirements ended between 7/1/07 and 1/1/08 they were required to follow the new law),


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3pink1blue* 
i personally know a man who is on the SOR here in Michigan for peeing outside.They called it Indecent Exposure, he got no jail time or probation but has to register for 25 years. So check it out before jumping to any conclusions - you just never know.

Oh my goodness, that's ridiculous. Ugh.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
I have represented people that have been before the court at least five or six time previous to my representation for the same type of crime (ie theft). Each time they were put on probation/community control previously. Obviously probation and restitution did nothing for them. They followed the rules, got off ASAP, and then went out and started their crimes again.

I'm glad we agree, at least, that our current criminal justice system does little to prevent crime or address its causes. I'm unsure why one would think that increasing penalties would somehow change that, though (and the SOR is definitely a penalty, whatever else it may be intended to be).


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## khaoskat (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
I'm glad we agree, at least, that our current criminal justice system does little to prevent crime or address its causes. I'm unsure why one would think that increasing penalties would somehow change that, though (and the SOR is definitely a penalty, whatever else it may be intended to be).

See, this is where your argument is circular. What is the criminal justice system supposed to do to prevent crime. Obviously if a person knows they are going to get a slap on the wrist and a stern "no" for their crime...what is going to prevent them from doing it again, knowing that nothing is going to happen to them.

And how is the criminal justice system supposed to address the causes? What about the divorced parent who refuses to pay child support, becomes willfully unemployed or paid under the table and holds no assets. It comes to criminal charges when there has generally been no support for 10 consecutive months or the person is over $25,000 behind in child support. The Court orders them to seek work, go to the Job Center, go to job skills/training classes...but this person just absolutely refuses to work to where they can pay to support their children. The Criminal Justice system has bent over backwards...it has made an attempt to rehabilitate this person...but it failed or the person failed to respond...now what...the other objective is pure punishment...and that is what is left after numerous attempts.

My point is that very few first, second, even third time offenders are incarcerated, unless it is a serious felony offense (murder, rape, serious drug dealing). In Ohio there is a presumption in Felony 5, and I think Felony 4 offenses of Community Control (aka Probation), even if it is not the person's first time offense. Before a Judge can sentence a person to prison, they have to overcome this presumption.

Hence, the reason that the research, IMHO, on recidivism is no longer valid. When you have people who have been given numerous chances to correct their behavior before being sent to prison, and they keep re-offending.

The criminal justice system has a two purposes. The first being rehabilitation. When rehabilitation is not possible or has failed, it is second purpose is punishment. That is what the criminal justice system was created for.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *khaoskat* 
See, this is where your argument is circular. What is the criminal justice system supposed to do to prevent crime. Obviously if a person knows they are going to get a slap on the wrist and a stern "no" for their crime...what is going to prevent them from doing it again, knowing that nothing is going to happen to them.

I suggest reading some of Alfie Kohn's work to get a better idea of how punishment influences behavior.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Iowa's laws are VERY strict, they cannot live within 2000 feet of a school or registered day care and in some cases a public park or library (not every town, but some)...and that goes for ALL offenders, not just the crimes against a child ones.

We're like 2 miles out of town so I guess we pass the 2000 ft radius of anything. Since he is on my friends side of the building she's going to watch him a few times and see what kind of 'vibe' she gets off him...and we'll go from there.

My BIL is a jailer, but unless this guy ends up in jail my BIL can't get any more info than we have.


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## Sailor (Jun 13, 2006)

I didn't read this whole thread, but "exploitation of a minor" could just mean he had sex with a 16 year old, who consented to this. Her parents didn't like it, and they charged him.

It doesn't mean he's a pedophile.

I'm not saying this is the case ... just pointing out possibilities.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything. When I look up my neighborhood online, it seems like this is the place for sex offenders. They seem to be everywhere.

And then there's all the weirdos out there that you don't know about either because they haven't been caught yet or because they haven't started yet. (Sorry to be cynical!)

Danger is everywhere, IMO. All you can do is be aware of it, and stay protected. There's a reason I have a GSD for a pet, have taken self defense classes, and am very proficient at the shooting range. I'm not paranoid ... I live without fear. But, I know the danger is out there, and it's better to be safe than sorry.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Yeah, judging by his age I'm assuming that it was a 17 y/o girlfriend, in which case I don't really care. Like I said, half the men I know could be RSO in that case (my husband included!) my bil said it sounded like the charges were more than likely (consentual) sex with an older teen (16/17).

I haven't seen him around much...but that's not super weird, I'm off in no-mans land and between my work and DH's work...I'm never out and about.


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## Elizabeth2008 (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't blame you at all for being freaked out. But the bottom line is there are millions of predators out there (sick, but true) and you just happen to KNOW that there is one in your building. There could be others that you don't know about, others that don't have a conviction to follow them around but are still just as (or more) dangerous. It could be someone that you know who has the potential to harm your child. The best thing you can do is supervise your kids, and make sure they are informed and equipped to know when a situation is inappropriate and avoid it if they can. I would highly recommend reading the book "Protecting the Gift" as it provides a lot of insight into how to equip yourself and your kids and give you a little more peace of mind.


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## Elizabeth2008 (Nov 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels* 
Shoulda woulda coulda... they can and will, right or wrong is secondary IMO.



The minor laws are important because there are 50 year old men who would have sex with 15 year olds and say "she wanted it" and maybe in fact she did say that, but someone at that age is not emotionally able to "give consent" and I agree that those things should be illegal. Everyone focuses on the guy who was 18 who has sex with his 17 year old girlfriend, and yes those situations seem far less egregious and they should be looked at on a case by case basis when it comes to whether to prosecute or whether jail time is necessary, but the laws nevertheless are there to protect minors and they are not "ridiculous"


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## Elizabeth2008 (Nov 26, 2008)

Labbemama said:


> And you know he would be an even bigger idiot to re-offend right where he lives.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> You just couldn't be more wrong. If someone is a child molester then someone near their home, whom they could groom and get to trust them is in fact the ideal victim. Keep in mind, many many child victims never tell their parents or anyone about the molestation out of fear or shame or because they are threatened by the offender. We all worry about abductions, but far more likely are situations where somehow the molester will gain access to the child's or the parent's trust, get them to come into their house for even just a few minutes, etc.


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