# Was I wrong?



## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

I'm not sure this is a GD issue, but I don't really know where else to post this...

I guess I just want to get the opinion of some mamas I respect.

Here's the story: I went to Whole Foods with my 3 yo son, and we parked in a space right in front. When we got out of the store, I was fiddling with the groceries and the key fob trying to unlock the door, and ds went over to the front of the car next to ours. He was about 7 ft from me ON THE SIDEWALK. He likes to look at cars because he is interested in (and knows most of) the symbols. He also likes to beep at cars, because for the past few weeks he has been one ("I'm not a little boy, I'm a racecar!"). So he was standing in front of the car, and the owner was in it getting ready to leave and back out. She made an inquiring gesture, like "do you see where your son is?" I nodded and smiled to indicate that yes I was aware and fine with it. So she started yelling at me as she backed out. Something to the effect of "I can't believe you don't pay any attention to your child!" Now, my son is very aware of and careful with cars. He won't walk near even parked cars in a parking lot without holding my hand or being carried. He doesn't WANT to because he's scared of moving cars. He and I frequently walk on sidewalks and he is well past the stage of running away and being unsafe around cars. He even stops before driveways when we walk to wait for me to hold his hand to cross. I don't believe my son was in any danger standing on a sidewalk in front of a car that was about to back up. Unless the lady is a maniac and wants to run over my son and drive over the curb. I've been going over it in my head, and I'm sure there are more cautious type mamas who wouldn't let a 3 yo be free in a situation like this, but I know my son and honestly didn't perceive any danger, so the lady yelling at me like I was a terrible parent took me aback...

So I guess I just want to rant a little, and process... because my dh is a VERY cautious type, and if I ranted to him, he would probably assume I was at fault. I am more of a continuum concept mama when it comes to safety. While I always try to protect him from real danger, I try to communicate trust in ds's ability to keep himself safe. Whereas dh reacts to most things as if they were real danger... ie. climbing up on a chair, hammering a nail (in a toy that says 3 and up). Honestly, I'm afraid ds is going to grow up feeling completely incompetent







:.

So... was the lady right to yell at me? Is there something I'm missing here? Or is it just a case of me knowing my child and his capabilities and someone else perceiving it as neglect?


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## TovahNeryse (Jun 17, 2007)

I think she was rude and shouldn't have said anything... but in her defense it's easy to assume that a parent is just not paying attention to their children as it happens so often. I see far more bad parents than I do good parents. That being said, if you trust your parenting and your child, then that woman's words shouldn't bother you at all.


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## onemoremom (Jun 8, 2007)

My son does similar things in parking lots and I think it's fine, so no I don't think you did anything wrong. There are definitely places and circumstances where I wouldn't have allowed him so far away form me, but my son has grown up living in cities and if nothing else, he has a VERY healthy respect for what a car can do to a little boy. So he will wander a bit down the sidewalk to look at the cars and trucks but often comes running back to me when he hears an engine start. You know your son and I'm sure he was perfectly safe and fine. If he wasn't capable of keeping himself out of the way of moving vehicles, or were a kid who sprints away at every opportunity or something you wouldn't have allowed it I bet.

Maybe the lady thought he was younger than he is? Is he smallish for his age? I know I often get opposite reactions-my son is a big boy, so strangers tend to assume he's older than he is, and so speak as if I am wildly overprotective when I don't allow him (just turned 4) to do things they expect a kindergartener to be capable of


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## texaspeach (Jun 19, 2005)

how was she supposed to know your child is careful around cars? Unless she knew you personally, she had no way to know. as a driver, I have had children dart out in front of me in parking lots. I would take it as the other woman showing her concern, she could have done it less rudely, but she was probably worried he was going to go into the parking lot and get hit.

I don't think you were wrong, and I don't think the other person was wrong (rude yes, but not wrong)


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think she was appropriate in informing you where your DS was initially, but once you responded, she was out of line yelling at you.

I mean, he was on the sidewalk- how was he in her way while she was backing up? It's not like he was standing in the middle of the street!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

It sounds to me that although her manners were not very polite, her intent was positive. She was concerned for a child's safety and not comfortable moving her car without knowing someone was making sure the child was kept clear. I am the same type of driver. Not the yelling - but I do not feel comfortable putting my car into motion if there is a child or animal around close to it that I am not certain is being watched by someone who is looking out for its safety. When I'm in a similar situation in a parking lot, I very much appreciate the adult who is with that child keeping their focus on the child for a moment while I get the car away. I don't think your approach to the situation is wrong, but that it can be easily misinterpreted by others, and as a driver, I appreciate seeing the adult put their full attention on the child for a moment, even if the adult is really just humoring me.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TovahNeryse* 
...That being said, if you trust your parenting and your child, then that woman's words shouldn't bother you at all.

You're right... I'm really sensitive to being yelled at. A woman in my apartment complex got out of her car and called me really horrible (and unrepeatable) names because I backed out too close to her car. I shook for hours, and felt like I had post traumatic stress for weeks. Wimpy, I know. I shouldn't really care what a stranger thinks of me, but other people's anger scares the heck out of me.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onemoremom* 
My son does similar things in parking lots and I think it's fine, so no I don't think you did anything wrong. There are definitely places and circumstances where I wouldn't have allowed him so far away form me, but my son has grown up living in cities and if nothing else, he has a VERY healthy respect for what a car can do to a little boy. So he will wander a bit down the sidewalk to look at the cars and trucks but often comes running back to me when he hears an engine start. You know your son and I'm sure he was perfectly safe and fine. If he wasn't capable of keeping himself out of the way of moving vehicles, or were a kid who sprints away at every opportunity or something you wouldn't have allowed it I bet.

Maybe the lady thought he was younger than he is? Is he smallish for his age? I know I often get opposite reactions-my son is a big boy, so strangers tend to assume he's older than he is, and so speak as if I am wildly overprotective when I don't allow him (just turned 4) to do things they expect a kindergartener to be capable of









My son usually runs back to me when he hears an engine start, too. This time, the car was already running, so he hung around and made the lady nervous. He isn't small for his age, but if a person doesn't have kids, or hasn't had small ones for a while, I can see not knowing what is age appropriate.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
...I mean, he was on the sidewalk- how was he in her way while she was backing up? It's not like he was standing in the middle of the street!

Ruthla- that's exactly my reaction! I was so surprised when she got upset and yelled at me.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses, and thanks texaspeach and llp34 for helping me to see it from the other woman's point of view. I now feel much better, AND feel compassion towards her instead of defensiveness. She was concerned for my son's safety and that's always a positive in my book







It's also possible that she didn't see my reassuring look and thought I was just out to lunch while my son wandered off into danger. Honestly, the world needs more people to get angry on children's behalf.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

She certainly could have been gentler with you though.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *kbchavez* 
Honestly, the world needs more people to get angry in children's behalf.


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## Hannahsmummy (Oct 12, 2006)

That would have really upset me too. Especially since she drove away and you are left to resolve your feelings and think of all your responses alone!

I know what you mean about how your son behaves. My daughter is the same and is very cautious about cars and the like. I am sure it makes people nervous when they see her hurtling towards the street on the sidewalk ahead of me. They do not know her but I trust her completely to stop at the curb (she's 4.5) and she always does.

I think it was good of the woman to get your attention at first as she was clearly concerned for your son and that's a good thing. However, following it up with a shouting accusation doesn't do any good at all.

I'd just chalk it up to her thinking she was doing the right thing. You know you weren't doing anything wrong so it was a misunderstanding. Awful feeling though!


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

She had no right to assume you don't pay attention to your child, especially if he was close to you and not in any danger, and was being very rude. If he'd been in the street it might have been different, but he wasn't. Since you can't respond to the woman who drove away, I would at least have a small chat with your DS about it--that sometimes people don't know what they are talking about but speak anyway, that he was doing nothing wrong and was safe, and that you are always paying enough attention to keep him safe.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

The very idea of yelling at a stranger is bizarre to me. Who does that?


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## onemoremom (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
The very idea of yelling at a stranger is bizarre to me. Who does that?

Stressed out shoppers who are driving out of the Whole Foods parking lot, I guess









It is bizarre, isn't it? I know I sometimes worry more about other peoples children than my own, since it's much harder for me to gauge how they will react or what they might do. But if I'm worried about someone else's kid in a situation like that, I just sit in the car for a minute or two until the family moves along and the kids are far enough away for *my* comfort.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm a very cautious type. My family and dp's family tease me about it (very gently). lol.
My ds is similar to yours- he's 3.5, and doesn't like to go where I can't see him, is cautious about cars, and I can pretty well trust him to stay on a sidewalk, etc.

Last night, I let my ds do the same thing you let your ds do- I was at Choices getting the groceries in the car, he was in front of the car next to us (but on the other side, though I could see him through the window). I made sure I saw him every couple seconds or so. But otherwise, it's totally not something I was worried about.

I guess if it had been a busy parking lot, with lots of people passing right there, or in a scarier part of town, maybe I wouldn't have.

I can see how some people wouldn't let their dc do that, but that lady was totally out of line to yell at you!!!

eta- I agree with Ruthla that her first thing, to inform you of where your ds was, was just fine. It's the yelling that wasn't ok.


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## purple_kangaroo (Feb 20, 2006)

She shouldn't have yelled at you, but I don't blame her for being uncomfortable backing out with a 3-yo loose near her car, even on the sidewalk. YOUR 3-yo may be able to be trusted, but most kids that age can't--and with even a very cautious toddler, if they're only a couple of steps away from being in the way of a moving vehicle I would be worried. I've seen too many toddlers make a dart in front of a car or even accidentally trip and fall close to a moving vehicle, and it makes me very nervous as a driver to have little kids close to my car without a parent very close by.

I have politely asked parents to hold onto their kids or move them to where I can see they are out of my way when I am backing out, because it just plain scares me to have a child that young that close to my car when I'm looking behind me and not able to keep a full eye on them.

When other people are getting ready to move their cars, I try to do them the courtesy to make sure they can see that my kids are well out of their way and that I am keeping close tabs on them.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

You and she have different comfort levels. It's not nice that she yelled at you. I let my DS have more freedom too, although it can be risky. I'm sure she felt concerned for the risk to him. But you know your child and his behavior. I'm sorry you were yelled at.


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kbchavez* 
You're right... I'm really sensitive to being yelled at. A woman in my apartment complex got out of her car and called me really horrible (and unrepeatable) names because I backed out too close to her car. I shook for hours, and felt like I had post traumatic stress for weeks. Wimpy, I know. I shouldn't really care what a stranger thinks of me, but other people's anger scares the heck out of me.

I have no opinion on your original question, but just had to say THIS IS ME. I literally think about it for weeks when a stranger yells at me. There are a few instances that I still recall years later. I wish I weren't so sensitive!


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I always worry when I see children running near rmy car. Unless I know them personally, I dont know that they are safe. I wouldn't yell at a child, however. I would absolutely make contact with the parent somehow.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
The very idea of yelling at a stranger is bizarre to me. Who does that?

Yeah. I'm always at a loss when people react like that. It just seems... well, kind of weird, to me.

I can kind of understand being a little frustrated if I were in that woman's shoes. I'm really uncomfortable moving my car around unrestrained kids. Especially trying to back out of a space, when you're trying to watch behind you and and keep tabs on the kid standing in front of your car, making sure he doesn't move.
That being said, I'd realize that my comfort level and the moms were just different and probably would have just waited to back up until she and the child were in their car.

I mean, really, it's not worth yelling over. If she was uncomfortable backing out with your son there, she could have waited 3 minutes for you to load up. It's not the end of the world. People need to lighten up.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I think strangers yelling at one another is similar to flames being tossed about on forums such as this! Both totally stump me.

I think she could have asked you to be close to him or help him move somewhere else. Perhaps when she first communicated with you about it she expected that you'd do something about it.

Even with a very cautious child, I would be concerned about the driver perhaps putting the car in drive by accident or the child tripping as a pp pointed out. I'm pretty cautious even though my child is pretty careful, too. He's still young (mine is nearly 5) and isn't always aware of all the variables to make the best choices regarding safety.

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. She behaved inappropriately and it sounds like the yelling is what bothered you the most. You know your kiddo best.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
I think she could have asked you to be close to him or help him move somewhere else. Perhaps when she first communicated with you about it she expected that you'd do something about it.

Upon reflection, I think this is what happened. I think I misunderstood her nonverbal communication, and she thought I was unconcerned about my son and blowing off her concerns. I interpreted her based on my comfort level (I was also distracted), and was oblivious to her anxiety. I read a casual, "do you see your son?", and she meant, "your son is making me nervous and is in danger!". I believe I have ADD, and have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time. Keeping an eye on Ethan and opening my car was about all I could handle, so the lady only registered on the periphery. I can totally understand her frustration, now.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kbchavez* 
Upon reflection, I think this is what happened. I think I misunderstood her nonverbal communication, and she thought I was unconcerned about my son and blowing off her concerns. I interpreted her based on my comfort level (*I was also distracted*), and was oblivious to her anxiety. I read a casual, "do you see your son?", and she meant, "your son is making me nervous and is in danger!". I believe I have ADD, and have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time. Keeping an eye on Ethan and opening my car was about all I could handle, so the lady only registered on the periphery. I can totally understand her frustration, now.

I just want to say. That if you were actually distracted - then maybe that wasn't the time to allow your small child to be out of arm's reach in a parking lot.

Personally I would have refused to back out until your child was within arm's reach. I would have no idea what kind of child he was - or what kind of parent you are. I wouldn't know if you were a neglectful parent with a child who might run out in front of my car, or if you were a conscientious parent with a cautious parent.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

While I agree that she shouldn't have yelled at you, I can totally see where is coming from.

Accidently hitting/backing over someone in a car is one of my worst nightmares. Not only is there the horror of actually doing it, and living with the fact that I might have hurt/killed someone's child, there are also legal consequences, possibly charges, jail time.

You may think your child is as safe as can be, and may trust him implicitely..but he is only 3, and most 3 yo's are prone to impulsiveness. All it takes it him seeing a dog or cat or ball or balloon or something else which interestes him for him to dart out behind the car. He could also fall, stumble, etc. It only takes one time. I wouldn't trust a 3 yo around cars..not matter how cautious they may be.

And, if he did dart out and get hit the consequences would be DEVASTATING for both you and her. It could literally ruin her life (if charges were involved). With such serious, terrible, grave consequences and someone's life at stake, I don't think it unreasonable to expect a parent or caregiver to keep a small child within arm's reach AT ALL TIMES...around moving vehicles.

Granted, she could have been more polite...but she might have just been stressed and in a hurry and not able to think of a more polite response (ie. "Ma'am..I need to leave and don't feel comfortable backing out until I know your child is safe and next to you).

Quote:

While I always try to protect him from real danger, I try to communicate trust in ds's ability to keep himself safe. Whereas dh reacts to most things as if they were real danger... ie. climbing up on a chair, hammering a nail (in a toy that says 3 and up). Honestly, I'm afraid ds is going to grow up feeling completely incompetent.

While I appreciate where you are coming from. I also let my children do lots of things. I think there is a big difference between allowing your child to tak responsibility for their own safety around a chair or a toy hammer where any injury which happens is likely to be minor versus their own safety around moving vehicles, which can cause grave, serious injury and death.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
I just want to say. That if you were actually distracted - then maybe that wasn't the time to allow your small child to be out of arm's reach in a parking lot.

She was distracted from the woman because she was paying attention to her son and her task of loading groceries. He wasn't in a parking lot. He was near a parking lot on a sidewalk.

Anyway, my son was the same way, very careful of moving cars. I would have been fine with him standing on a sidewalk out of arms reach and I think she was crazy to yell at you. But I never fully trust other people's kids and I'm sure I would have been concerned about your ds in her shoes. I would have waited or asked you to ask him to move where I could see him if I didn't have good visibility. I drive a little car and can see pretty well backing up but some of those mini vans are hard to see behind.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Both my kids were careful with cars and would have been fine on a sidewalk. I agree that if the person was uncomfortable pulling out, she was free to wait until the three year old was somewhere else to pull out. Yelling was out of line and unproductive.

The world does not need more people "angry on behalf of children" expressing it by yelling at strangers. The world may well need more people expressing patience with mothers and joy at children, though.

ETA: I guess I should say are careful with cars. They are 3 and 7. We've had lots of talks about car safety and I know I can trust them. I do affirm this strangers' right to wait in her car until she felt safe or to politely ask if the OP would mind standing near her child until she pulled out since she felt uncomfortable.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 

Granted, she could have been more polite...but she might have just been stressed and in a hurry and not able to think of a more polite response

Yes, she could have been much more polite, and she SHOULD HAVE been more polite. An appropriate and polite and more easily understood request would be -- "I need to move my car now, would you please go by your son or keep him next to you so that I can be sure he doesn't get hurt?"

The woman who was leaving handled it badly.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
She was distracted from the woman because she was paying attention to her son and her task of loading groceries. He wasn't in a parking lot. He was near a parking lot on a sidewalk.

Thanks for saying this on my behalf. I was going to say the same thing. My son was directly in front of the car on the sidewalk, and was completely visible. I can't imagine any way he could have been in danger from her car. Even if he darted (which he isn't prone to do, especially TOWARD a moving car since he's scared of cars when they move) while she backed up, he would still be in front and in no danger of being run over. There was a parked car on either side of the lady's car, so he couldn't have darted in any direction to place himself in any danger, as I see it. As I said before, I certainly understand a driver not wanting to move when a child is near the car. I may be guilty of being unaware of the woman's POV at the time (because I was trying to keep and eye on ds and open the car at the same time) but I am certainly not guilty of putting my son in danger. When I try to imagine how he could have been hurt in the situation, the only way I can do so is to imagine extremely far-fetched scenarios.


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## kbchavez (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Both my kids were careful with cars and would have been fine on a sidewalk. I agree that if the person was uncomfortable pulling out, she was free to wait until the three year old was somewhere else to pull out. Yelling was out of line and unproductive.

The world does not need more people "angry on behalf of children" expressing it by yelling at strangers. The world may well need more people expressing patience with mothers and joy at children, though.

I agree with you. (I certainly don't believe in yelling at strangers!







) I guess I should have expressed myself more clearly. Many people don't have the courage to do or say something when they see children (or anyone) mistreated. We DO need more of strong people defending the weak. Not by going off like the lady did in the car... but saying something nonetheless. I think the woman was genuinely concerned for my son. I just don't care for the way she expressed it.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

The thing for me in such a situation is that I can't be sure little children will not do something a bit impulsve. Toddlers and cars need careful supervison. Goddess forbid your child had been injured. We'd all be saying "How stupid are people? Don't they understand little children sometimes do the unexpected?" Your child was never in danger, yet the stranger did not know that. So many children are run over each year by their mothers and fathers---in their own driveways! Tiny children move quickly, and I am not sure these littles should be without a hand holding or some sort of sling when in busy parking lots. I would like to think (and hope!) I would be kind if in such as situation, but worry/safety- stress does make me less easy-going.


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## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

I haven't read all the replies so I hope I'm not repeating anyone here.

Basically I agree with other posters who have said that she was just concerned for your sons safety but handled it badly. I too would hate to move my car with a little child watching me unless an adult was close enough by to grab them incase they did suddenly run.

Maybe in future if ever in the same situation just go and stand by your DS while the person moves the car. Seems the easiest and happiest solution all round.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purple_kangaroo* 
I have politely asked parents to hold onto their kids or move them to where I can see they are out of my way when I am backing out, because it just plain scares me to have a child that young that close to my car when I'm looking behind me and not able to keep a full eye on them.

This is what I thought ... that you were not wrong, but that her mostly likely socially appropriate choices were (1) back out or (2) ask you if you would mind holding his hand while she backed out, for her own comfort.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Interestingly enough, while I would probably be comfortable with a child under my supervision standing on the sidewalk near a car about to back up, I would be wildly UNcomfortable with moving a car anywhere near a child that young who wasn't in physical contact with someone older.

I will *not* move my car when there are any little ones about that aren't directly in my field of vision or in direct physical contact with someone. I've heard too many horror stories.

Regardless, her being rude and yelling was obviously wrong.


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Reason for editing:
most of this was covered already....


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