# How Does Your Familiy Handle Going Out To Eat?



## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I am just curious what different people do.

My 4yo DS is very spirited...we avoid really crowded restaurants, and try to go to noisier places so that if he does start to get loud it isn't a big deal. We have him remain seated (this has always been a rule) and we will bring a couple toys or a puzzle. We also go to places where he can run around.

There is an Indian restaurant that does a lunch buffet, and we hit that place a lot. It is nice because we can get our food right away, but DH and I take turns getting food and DS remains seated for the most part. (we let him come with us to get food if there aren't lots of other people walking around)

I recently went out to lunch with a friend who has a 2 yo. She kind of let him do whatever he wanted, including jumping up and down in the vinyl booths. The manager came over and asked VERY nicely if we would please not allow our kids (hers was the only one, but he was being nice) to stand on the booths. He explained that they had just been recovered, and that toddler shoes very easily rip the vinyl. (it was an old fashioned diner with red sparkley booths!! Really cool!)

My friend was so offended...she looked at the guy like he had 3 heads and said "I can't get him to sit down! You will have to cancel our food because we are leaving" and we left. I was MORTIFIED by her behavior, and I really hope that manager didn't think that I was in agreement with her.

Then I had to listen to her complain about how ridiculous that was etc...
That they weren't "Child Friendly" (they had really nice boosters and high chairs) and that they were being rude. I guess to her "Child Friendly" means her kid can destroy the place?

I felt bad because they had to throw away the food that we had ordered about 10 minutes before.


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## au lait (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I felt bad because they had to throw away the food that we had ordered about 10 minutes before.

Don't! They ate it.








Oh, yes, I've worked in the food industry.

Firstly, I only go to independant Mexican, Nepalese, Italian, and Chinese resturants. People there LOVE children. They see them as the gifts that they are. Also, booths only. That one is written in stone for me. Bring things! Not necessarily a toy chest, but aside from the crayons and paper (often provided in nice establishments), you would be suprised how long a pocket full of legos can go. Also when they're old enough, play cards and dice, right there at the table.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Here is how it would go:

Manager:
Please don't let him stand on the booths [I will make up some lame excuse that is clearly not true] - - Um we just had them covered an a 20 pound baby jumping on them will clearly tear them to shreds.

Me(more likely DW): Jet, please take off your shoes. (to manager) There ya go, have a nice day.

If he pressed further, we would probably leave.
---------------------
My suspicion is he did not actually think the child could break the seat, but he thought he could/should/would say something to exert his authority on my child. It isn't really his fault, society has conditioned us to think that we MUST CONTROL our kids all the time. Arbitrary controll struggles are something I avoid with my children.

There is nothing better than short circuiting their lame excuse for trying to control the situation... The shoe removal says: "I don't believe you have a real reason to make this request so I will call your bluff."

And for the record, any restraunt or manager that has anti-family policies deserves to throw away food and lose business. (I am assuming a place with red sparkley booths is supposedly "family friendly"). Any manager worth his own spit knows any time you confront people you risk losing business, and no matter how sheepishly or polite you are when you are making a rude statement, it is still rude. His statement was "Control your child" not, "save our booth".


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

We go out to eat, as a family, to the same restaurant every Sunday.

It's an all you can Buffet restaurant (ever heard of Golden Corral?).

We go when DS is hungry. He does extremely well because we are pretty much eating about 5 minutes after we sit down.

At this Age, we will ONLY do Buffet-type restaurants.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Weeelll, I make my kids sit, because I don't enjoy eating with a jumping 2 year old with me, and frankly, I don't go out to eat with others who let their 2 years stand on chairs. Only because *I* dislike that atmosphere when trying to eat. I actually hate buffets, because I want to sit and talk, not take turns running for food. We do try to go to places that serve quickly, and we do often order an appetizer - I've been pregnant or lactating for a great % of our marriage, so I'm always as starved anyway. (Maybe we'll share and appetizer then share a meal.)

Personally, I think your friend was very rude to speak for you, and if it was me, I would have stayed an ate with my own kid.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I absolutely believe a toddler jumping could tear the vinyl on those shiny seats, so let's not cast aspersions on the manager, mmkay?

As it is, we have a very difficult time with our 2.5 year old, getting him to sit down. We ALWAYS request a booth because it's easier to get him to sit snuggled next to one of us than in his own chair or booster.

We do NOT allow him to behave like a maniac. Kids will be kids, but we need to teach him to be respectful of other people's space esp in a place like a restaurant. So the meal is mostly creative redirection for him









He is not allowed to get down and run around, not allowed to squirrel around under the table, he's not allowed to turn around and stare into the table behind or next to us, and he's not allowed to stand/jump up and down.

We have been going to restaurants with him since he was a baby and have always enforced basic courtesy rules, while being respectful of his needs as well. If it's clear he CAN'T stay still, one of us will take him outside to burn off some steam. Running around outside is acceptable. Running around inside is not.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

If he was polite about it, I think she was out of line. He didn't ask her to leave. She overreacted.

And he may not have been worried about the seats, but about the restaurant's liability if that 2 year old fell and hit his head. Maybe the seats were merely a pretense. Then again, vinyl seats can split. They aren't designed to be jumped on!

But honestly, I don't let my kids jump on the seats at a restaurant. I don't let them stand. If they have that much energy, we go for a walk outside the restaurant while one of us eats, and then we switch. When we are at a table, my kids know they must sit on their bottoms or on their knees. They don't HAVE to sit at the table, but if they're on a chair or a bench, they must be on their bottom or knees. Period.

Shaggy Daddy: While I respect your point of view, the child wasn't just STANDING, he was also jumping up and down. That is considerably more dangerous and potentially harmful to the seats.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

If he was polite about it, I think she was out of line. He didn't ask her to leave. She overreacted.

And he may not have been worried about the seats, but about the restaurant's liability if that 2 year old fell and hit his head. Maybe the seats were merely a pretense. Then again, vinyl seats can split. They aren't designed to be jumped on!

But honestly, I don't let my kids jump on the seats at a restaurant. I don't let them stand. If they have that much energy, we go for a walk outside the restaurant while one of us eats, and then we switch. When we are at a table, my kids know they must sit on their bottoms or on their knees. They don't HAVE to sit at the table, but if they're on a chair or a bench, they must be on their bottom or knees. Period.

Shaggy Daddy: While I respect your point of view, the child wasn't just STANDING, he was also jumping up and down. That is considerably more dangerous and potentially harmful to the seats.

Oh, and where is this place? Dh and I LOVE Indian food and are always looking for a good place in Portland. I'll patronize them, if they're close to us!


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

I agree. It is reasonable to expect a child not to jump on the seats. I think your friend over reacted.

As far as the general question with a younger one here's what I'd do. Before going to the restaurant talk about the expectations. 1. Bring along snack food that be consumed immediately if needed. 2. bring along books, little toys. Stuff they don't get everyday so you have some novelty factor. 3. If there is a wait take a walk after the food has been ordered before it arrives. - when our son was young we had an attraction everyplace we went - fish tank at the Japanese restaurant, etc. 4. Don't expect to linger over a meal the way you would if you didn't have a kid along.

Some planning can make a big difference and also I'd recognize that for some kids certain ages just aren't going to be too conducive to eating in a restaurant. And, at some point in your child's eating out life you may have to bail from a meal and that's okay.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2bluefish* 
Personally, I think your friend was very rude to speak for you, and if it was me, I would have stayed an ate with my own kid.









Yes!! I wish I could have but we were actually on vacation together and we were all in riding in her van at the time.
I felt like it was pretty rude that she just decided we were all leaving, but I am also pregnant and sometimes irrational things irritate me, so I try not to say to much these days...I sometimes realize later that I was being a nut!

I really wish I would have said something to her about it , though.

I am already getting more ideas for DS from all your replies. Why haven't I though of legos before?


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## sdm1024 (Sep 4, 2006)

It was very rude for her to speak for you and decide that everyone had to leave.

I also agree that the owner/manager of the place does have a right to ask that his newly recoverd seats are not used as a trampoline.

It's not about controlling a child to teach them to sit down, or redirect them to a new activity, take them outside - I'm a pretty laid back mamma (well, most of the time







) but let's face it, there's behavior for inside your own house and behavior for outside the home.

Now, if the guy was rude and asked that the two year old eat neatly and not make a mess, I'd think he was crazy. He just asked that the child not stand on the booth seat. Not an unreasonable request, IMO


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
...I am also pregnant and sometimes irrational things irritate me, so I try not to say to much these days...

Wait, wait, she made a pregnant woman get up and leave without eating? I'm sorry, I don't think I like your friend much









My DD (21 months) and I eat out virtaully every day (I admit rather sheepishly) so I hesitate to post of 'restauant' threads since it is so commonplace and part of our routine.

That said, what works for us is taking finger food and crayons or a mangadoodle for drawing. I personally don't do toys or let her play with anything on the table like sugar packets, napkins etc, but we do have stndard games we play like clapping 'mary mack' type games and simon-say-touch-your-ear...stuff like that. We don't get up at all from first sitting until we are done and leaving, but my DD seems to have a decent tolerance for sitting which obviously not all little ones do.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I dont let dd jump on the seats. First, it's dangerous. And second it is not respectful of other people's property. And third a maniac kid is not respecting other peoples right to have a somewhat pleasant dining experience. If she needs to jump, I simply tell her to jump on the floor. Or we go for a walk. I am always prepared with toys/books/coloring things. I do not expect my 2 yo to sit and 'behave' for an hour at a time. BUT as her parent it's my responsibility to keep her safe and teach her socially acceptable ways to act. I see no problem with a 2 yo jumping at all, just the time and place it is done, yk? I dont think the store manager was trying to be controlling at all. He was probably 1.Worried about liability-if this kid falls he could be sued (yes, people sue others for thier own lack of judgement) and 2.Worried about his other customers. It was a perfectly reasonable request. If someone comes to MY house and proceeds to jump on the furniture, I'd ask them to please stop as well. We've worked hard for what we have, and I dont want a 20 lb or 200 lb person ruining it.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Subbing so i can come back to this when I have more time.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *easy_goer* 
Wait, wait, she made a pregnant woman get up and leave without eating? I'm sorry, I don't think I like your friend much

















No kidding! (With my low blood sugar issues, I'm the one on vacation who wants to know when we are eating and where and don't even think of deviating from the plan!







) Yeah, it stinks when you don't really have a choice in the matter. But I'm glad to see other GD moms don't think it is unreasonable to have a small child behave reasonably well at a restaurant.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

We go to kid friendly places that have food that we know our children will eat. Then, we order the kid's food immediately and I'll walk around outside with the children for a few minutes. Then, I return to the table when I think that their food is there and cooled. The kids stay busy and we can relax and wait for our food. When our food arrives, we usually have kids who are wanting to climb under the table, etc, but we just deal with it then. We deal with it by allowing them to hang out under the table if it's sanitary. If they can't be under there (almost never is an issue) we have them color or something and order the check so that we can be ready to leave quickly. Just knowing that we can leave quickly because we have our check in hand helps us to relax.

But, lately, with 3 kids and the youngest not quite 2, we don't eat out.
Lisa


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

When my DD was 2, I wouldn't have been able to make her sit down in the booth--and the manager specified _sitting_, not just no jumping--without physically restraining her and causing a loud tantrum. I also would have had no choice but cancel our order and leave.

I just don't get the "toddler shoes" thing either. I haven't met many 2 year olds with track cleats. I would be more concerned about adults with sharp things in their pockets--pocket knives, pens, wallet chains, cell phone antennas, etc.

As for the jumping, if it was heavy-duty, out-of-control jumping, I could maybe see how the manager might be concerned, but for normal 2 yo bouncing, I think the manager would probably be overreacting. A lot of people _do_ have unreasonable expectations of toddlers and expect them to act like quiet little adults.


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## nova22 (Jun 26, 2004)

From your post it sounds like your friend may have overreacted.

When we go out to eat, we very clearly tell the kids our expectations of them. We ask the kids, "What do we do at the restaurant?" They chime in with their replies ("Eat food!" "Sit down!" "Be polite!" "Stay with mommy and daddy!") and we emphasize that the most important thing is that they stay with us...we have a couple escape artists.







We do the same thing when we go to Mass or MW appointments or anywhere else, so the kids know what we expect of them. We try to keep it positive (rather than saying "no running away" we say "stay near Mommy and Daddy"). If they start getting really wild in the restaurant we'll quietly remind them, "don't forget, in a restaurant it's important to stay in your seat." If needed we will provide an explanation, like "the chairs aren't sturdy enough to support you when you stand, and you could fall" or whatever.

We also try to plan what we're going to order before we go in, if possible, and order food when the waitress takes our drink order. Sometimes we'll ask if they'll bringout the kids' food first, if it's ready before our's, and we often ask for side dishes of applesauce, fruit, or a veggie if the kids finish before us.

Oh, and we love buffets too.







The kids think it's great that they're allowed to pick out whatever they want for their meal. We also let them choose their food on the menu at sit-down restaurants, if we're able.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee* 
When my DD was 2, I wouldn't have been able to make her sit down in the booth--and the manager specified _sitting_, not just no jumping--without physically restraining her and causing a loud tantrum. I also would have had no choice but cancel our order and leave.

I just don't get the "toddler shoes" thing either. I haven't met many 2 year olds with track cleats. I would be more concerned about adults with sharp things in their pockets--pocket knives, pens, wallet chains, cell phone antennas, etc.

As for the jumping, if it was heavy-duty, out-of-control jumping, I could maybe see how the manager might be concerned, but for normal 2 yo bouncing, I think the manager would probably be overreacting. A lot of people _do_ have unreasonable expectations of toddlers and expect them to act like quiet little adults.


The Manager said toddler shoes because I am sure that has been their experience (hence the fact that they had JUST had to recover the booths) I doubt that they have had adults standing on the seats. He was just trying to be nice. He really couldn't have been any nicer about it. Maybe it wasn't even vinyl, I am not sure what the seats were made from, but it looked kinda like vinyl but with a hard kind of finish on it that made it really shiny. It looked like it could split open very easily. And it did look brand new...no tears or holes or dull spots.

And the restaurant was empty, he didn't seem like he cared if the kids were acting like kids. They has been noisy and he didn't say anything about that. He just asked really really nicely if we wouldn't allow the kids to jump or stand on the booths.

My friend could have requested the food to go or could have taken her son outside to jump (like pp's have mentioned)
Instead, we all had to wait another hour to get food.

I think that some people really expect to have the red carpet rolled out for their children (and themselves) everywhere that they go. They really can't understand why it isn't okay for their kids to jump on other people's furniture, etc...


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

They really can't understand why it isn't okay for their kids to jump on other people's furniture, etc...









:


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

When we go out to eat we generally target places that are marketed as being family friendly, and try to go during off hours. And we NEVER EVER go during a time that they might be tired. We always talk about expectations before we get out of the car and try to phrase them in a blanketed (everyone, not just kids) and positive way (in other words I don't say "we are not allowed to stand up on our seats" I say "we're expected to sit down while we're in there" - no sense in sticking an idea into their head that they might not have come up with on their own







). I frequently ask for a booth, if they have one in a less busy spot, great. When we're around alot of people the kids want to talk, and inevitably there are some old people there that want to chat with us all through the meal, and I like my privacy and bieng able to focus on my kids. We always order drinks and an appetizer first so they don't have to wait so long while everyone around us is eating. And the biggest thing that we do is interact. I know it sounds stupid, but when I chat with them just as I would an adult with me, or point out funny/cool/weird stuff to them, it makes it alot easier.

Fwiw, I wouldn't let my dc jump on the seat. I would think it's just rude, and probably not too safe.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

We go to fairly loud places, go early so that we get seated right away, bring snacks/toys, order right away, eat sort of quickly, then let the kids run around outside for a bit before getting back in the car.

It works great so far. We've gone out to eat every Friday night with another family for the past 5 years -- there are 3 kids total (soon to be 4!) and it's never been a problem. All 3 kids are fine with sitting and eating/talking for <30 minutes and then getting to play with each other.

I wouldn't let my son jump on a restaurant seat -- it's disrespectful of the owner's property, and it could disturb the people around us (especially if the booths are connected -- the person on the other side would probably not appreciate the bouncing). I would have been mortified too if my friend responded to a polite request the way the OP's did.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Here is how it would go:

Manager:
Please don't let him stand on the booths [I will make up some lame excuse that is clearly not true] - - Um we just had them covered an a 20 pound baby jumping on them will clearly tear them to shreds.

Me(more likely DW): Jet, please take off your shoes. (to manager) There ya go, have a nice day.

If he pressed further, we would probably leave.
---------------------
My suspicion is he did not actually think the child could break the seat, but he thought he could/should/would say something to exert his authority on my child. It isn't really his fault, society has conditioned us to think that we MUST CONTROL our kids all the time. Arbitrary controll struggles are something I avoid with my children.

There is nothing better than short circuiting their lame excuse for trying to control the situation... The shoe removal says: "I don't believe you have a real reason to make this request so I will call your bluff."

And for the record, any restraunt or manager that has anti-family policies deserves to throw away food and lose business. (I am assuming a place with red sparkley booths is supposedly "family friendly"). Any manager worth his own spit knows any time you confront people you risk losing business, and no matter how sheepishly or polite you are when you are making a rude statement, it is still rude. His statement was "Control your child" not, "save our booth".


I agree, and I like the suggestion about taking shoes off.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2bluefish* 
Weeelll, I make my kids sit, because I don't enjoy eating with a jumping 2 year old with me, and frankly, I don't go out to eat with others who let their 2 years stand on chairs. Only because *I* dislike that atmosphere when trying to eat. I actually hate buffets, because I want to sit and talk, not take turns running for food. We do try to go to places that serve quickly, and we do often order an appetizer - I've been pregnant or lactating for a great % of our marriage, so I'm always as starved anyway. (Maybe we'll share and appetizer then share a meal.)

Personally, I think your friend was very rude to speak for you, and if it was me, I would have stayed an ate with my own kid.









Well, I suppose if I yelled and slapped my almost 2 yr old every time she stood up, she might stay sitting down, but otherwise, not gonna happen. I don't let her run around the restaurant though. And whnever she starts to get out of control jumping (as in more than normal bouncing aro7und, I have her sit for a hwort time, or I redirect her. BUt sitting thru the whole meal doens not happen.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee* 
When my DD was 2, I wouldn't have been able to make her sit down in the booth--and the manager specified _sitting_, not just no jumping--without physically restraining her and causing a loud tantrum. I also would have had no choice but cancel our order and leave.

I just don't get the "toddler shoes" thing either. I haven't met many 2 year olds with track cleats. I would be more concerned about adults with sharp things in their pockets--pocket knives, pens, wallet chains, cell phone antennas, etc.

As for the jumping, if it was heavy-duty, out-of-control jumping, I could maybe see how the manager might be concerned, but for normal 2 yo bouncing, I think the manager would probably be overreacting. A lot of people _do_ have unreasonable expectations of toddlers and expect them to act like quiet little adults.

This. I could take her shoes ooff, if that was an issue . (I've never encountered a booth that was covered in any material easy to tear).

I get a booth whenever I can.

The last time we went out, we sat in a booth. Took turns getting food from the smorg. She ate, and also stood up & crawled on me. Tried to get out of the booth. No luck, so crawled under the table to go see Grandma, and try her luck there. Couldn't get out that way so back to me.

She wasn't bothering anyone else, or doing any damage to restaurant property. She also wasn't doing anything dangerous.

So yeah, I'd have been choked if the manager complained. She's 2 for crying out loud. Normal 2 yr olds don't sit quietly with their hands in their lap for any length of time.

She wasn't running wild, or causing any disturbance. I dont' blame her for wriggling AT. ALL. For one thing, there were no boosters, so she couldt sit comfortably, and she hasn't gotten the hang of kneeling yet. (I think she finds it uncomfortable. I do, so I can see why). There were highchairs, but she doesn't use a highchair anymore.


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## au lait (Jul 24, 2006)

30 minute meals?!

We do 90 minutes at least.
Home or out.

How do you digest?







:


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## SusannahM (Sep 15, 2005)

I agree with the PP that there would be no way I could get my DD to quit jumping without a tantrum. We've pretty much given up on any restaurant that doesn't have some nice outlet for her energy (fountain to splash in, patio to run around on, etc). I don't think it was at all unjustified for your friend to cancel her order. She knows her child best, and assuming things about her child's behavior is wrong on anyone's part. She shouldn't have canceled your order, I don't think.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

It sounds like some people whose kids need to bounce and run throughout dinner accept that they're not old enough to sit through dinners out and just don't go or only go to extremely family-friendly places, and other people whose kids need to bounce and run throughout dinner think that everyone else in the restaurant should just have to put up with it because that's what kids do.

I guess I just don't agree -- I consider other people's enjoyment when I'm out, not *just* my kid's need to explore. Yes, I let him do plenty of exploring in other situations, and I certainly don't expect 2-year-olds to sit with their hands in their lap, but, as George Costanza said, "We live in a society, people!" If I was in a booth and the kid directly behind me was bouncing excessively (thereby bouncing my seat too) I'd be annoyed, and if the parents acted like I should just put up with it because they wanted to honor their child's desire to bounce at that exact moment, I'd be doubly annoyed.

And to me it doesn't matter whether the kid's shoes could or couldn't actually harm the booth's cover -- the point is that that's not a respectful way to treat furniture -- I really don't see the big oppression in having a "seats aren't for standing" rule.


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## attachedmamaof3 (Dec 2, 2006)

I do think your friend over-reacted...as to how our family deals...DS#2 brings his backpack full of things to do...my boob generally pacifies DD (







) and DS#1 is pretty much self-sufficient at restaurants.

On the rare occasion that one of our kids are just willfully disobeying and causing all kinds of hell (like freaking out, screaming, yelling NO or whatever) after attempting distraction, hugs, jumping jacks outside or whatever, we let them know that the consequences of their behavior will be removal to the car. If they continue, the consequence is that DP or I will sit with them in the car while the rest of the family continues their meal inside. I can only think of 2x we've had to do this....to our kids, it's the WORST THING EVER to know their other family members are doing something that they cannot!

That said, we are also a family who doesn't allow excessive jumping in restaurants, crawling under table, etc. But then again, DS#2 wants to be JUST LIKE his big brother so he generally imitates him at meals so we haven't really had those issues since DS#1 was really little..thank goodness!


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *limabean* 
It sounds like some people whose kids need to bounce and run throughout dinner accept that they're not old enough to sit through dinners out and just don't go or only go to extremely family-friendly places, and other people whose kids need to bounce and run throughout dinner think that everyone else in the restaurant should just have to put up with it because that's what kids do.

I guess I just don't agree -- I consider other people's enjoyment when I'm out, not *just* my kid's need to explore. Yes, I let him do plenty of exploring in other situations, and I certainly don't expect 2-year-olds to sit with their hands in their lap, but, as George Costanza said, "We live in a society, people!" If I was in a booth and the kid directly behind me was bouncing excessively (thereby bouncing my seat too) I'd be annoyed, and if the parents acted like I should just put up with it because they wanted to honor their child's desire to bounce at that exact moment, I'd be doubly annoyed.

And to me it doesn't matter whether the kid's shoes could or couldn't actually harm the booth's cover -- the point is that that's not a respectful way to treat furniture -- I really don't see the big oppression in having a "seats aren't for standing" rule.










Since I mentioned bouncing, I assume this was directed at me. My child was NOT bouncing enough that the people itn the next booth would be bothered. There's no way she wouldn't have had her feet on the booth at some point, as there was no booster seat. And before you try to tell me it wasn't meant for children to be there, they DID have highchairs.

And I flat out disagree about it just being rude to stand on restaurant furniture. Now she wasn't standing much. She'd stand up tp change position, I'd pull her back to sitting or kneeling or on my lap, but I couldn't always stop her from standing.

Mostly she would crawl off my side of the both, go under the table to Grandma, crawl up & sit there, (stand up to turn arond to sit down) then crawl back over to me, up beside me, stand up & turn around, and U"d usually sit her down gain for a few minutes.

The only people this could possibly have bothered were my parents and I, and we were fine with it, so it's really nobody's business.

I have never personally seen furniture in ANY restaurant that a toddler would damage climbing on. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I've certainly never seen it.

Luckily, the staff weren't anti-children, they were actually really nice. And I picked up as much as I could of food my daughter dropped, and left a big tip, like I always do. (even though it was smorg)

As to the op, if management couldn't deal with my child standing up at all, then I'd have to leave. Either she's gonna wriggle & bounce some, or she's gonna scream & cry the whole time. So it's obviously not the restaurant for me to be in, so yes, I'd leave.


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## Destinye (Aug 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *au lait* 
30 minute meals?!

We do 90 minutes at least.
Home or out.

How do you digest?







:









*burp*


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## KCMommy (Jun 24, 2006)

Interesting thread. I have a 2 y/o that is difficult to take to restaurants too. Like a lot of PPs, I also choose kid-friendly and buffet-style restaurants and bring tons of toys/distractions. Still, that generally doesn't buy me enough time to eat a full meal. I have to give her a lot of lee-way or face a major disturbance that would result in our leaving prematuring. While I wouldn't let her do any all-out jumping on a booth, I do let her stand (no shoes - more out of concern for getting booth seat dirty than anything else). I don't let her leave the area of our table, but I do let her crawl under it. I'm not sure how that could really disturb anyone but our own party. I also let her stack the little jam containers and such on the table. Again, I've never considered this disrespectful to others. If she starts to cry or complain loudly about anything and I can't reign it in within about 20 seconds, I take her outside until I can settle her.

I try to pick up as much as possible after DD, but there's inevitably going to still be more mess than I'd like to leave for the waitress. So, like another pp, I also tip well.

When I find some time, I think I might start another thread just asking what other people would consider disruptive or disrepectful behaviour from children in other public places. Because I sometimes wonder if I am walking a fine line in some public establishments, like stores, and wish I could step back and see it from another point of view.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angelcat* 
Since I mentioned bouncing, I assume this was directed at me.

I was thinking of the OP's post -- I should have used the word "jumping." I guess I was thinking of how my seat would bounce if the kid in the booth behind me were jumping up and down.

Quote:

She'd stand up to change position, I'd pull her back to sitting or kneeling or on my lap...
There's a *gigantic* difference between this and what the OP described, which was the mom letting her kid jump up and down, and then getting huffy with management when he asked her not to let him do that.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

But, according to the original post, the manager didn't ask that the child not jump up and down (although maybe that story is changing?). If he had, this would be an entirely different thread. He asked that the child not stand because toddler shoes somehow cause damage.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
The manager came over and asked VERY nicely if we would please not allow our kids (hers was the only one, but he was being nice) to stand on the booths. He explained that they had just been recovered, and that toddler shoes very easily rip the vinyl.

If I was in a restaurant that purported to be family friendly, as I've always known "diners" to be, I would also have been surprised to find out that the seats are made of fragile material and that toddlers aren't allowed to stand in booths. I'm not saying that the guy was a jerk, just that I understand the woman's frustration and decision to leave, and I feel bad that she is being bashed on a public board for it.


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## 3lilmonsters (Feb 24, 2007)

A little ot, but I'm amazed that people have listed buffet style restaurants as a good thing. We avoid them like the plague. A buffet style restaurant was the only one we've ever had to leave due to unreasonable...energy levels







:


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## MamaNosBest (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
Here is how it would go:

Manager:
Please don't let him stand on the booths [I will make up some lame excuse that is clearly not true] - - Um we just had them covered an a 20 pound baby jumping on them will clearly tear them to shreds.

Me(more likely DW): Jet, please take off your shoes. (to manager) There ya go, have a nice day.

If he pressed further, we would probably leave.
---------------------
My suspicion is he did not actually think the child could break the seat, but he thought he could/should/would say something to exert his authority on my child. It isn't really his fault, society has conditioned us to think that we MUST CONTROL our kids all the time. Arbitrary controll struggles are something I avoid with my children.

There is nothing better than short circuiting their lame excuse for trying to control the situation... The shoe removal says: "I don't believe you have a real reason to make this request so I will call your bluff."

And for the record, any restraunt or manager that has anti-family policies deserves to throw away food and lose business. (I am assuming a place with red sparkley booths is supposedly "family friendly"). Any manager worth his own spit knows any time you confront people you risk losing business, and no matter how sheepishly or polite you are when you are making a rude statement, it is still rude. His statement was "Control your child" not, "save our booth".









:

You're kidding?!??!!

"Family friendly" should mean that a child can do anything they want, anytime, anywhere, regardless of the other diners and the physical property of the establishment???

You bet she should "control her child."

Sheesh.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3lilmonsters* 
A little ot, but I'm amazed that people have listed buffet style restaurants as a good thing. We avoid them like the plague. A buffet style restaurant was the only one we've ever had to leave due to unreasonable...energy levels







:









Not to mention icky food....... My grandfather used to eat at one every single day and made us all go there any time we visited. I remember crying at the table because I was SOOO HUNGRY but could not choke down the warm, congealed mac-n-cheese and glazed swedish meatballs. Maybe they have improved over time?


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I get really irritated by parents who think that the world should cater to their two year olds' energies.

If your two year old can't sit politely (and this is not a surprise, many if not most can't), the answer is to NOT TAKE YOUR TWO YEAR OLD INTO SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS, not take your two year old there, let her disturb everyone and damage property and then act offended if people object.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *3lilmonsters* 
A little ot, but I'm amazed that people have listed buffet style restaurants as a good thing. We avoid them like the plague. A buffet style restaurant was the only one we've ever had to leave due to unreasonable...energy levels







:









Really?







At the Buffet we go to every Sunday (Golden Corral), we experience the total opposite...it's very subdued, not too loud, not too quiet. Kind of a low hum. Probably because it's still pretty new (not quite a year old).

The food is always very good, fresh vegetables and fresh fruit. The selection is outstanding. DS thoroughly enjoys going there. Otherwise, we wouldn't eat there obviously.

Another point to consider on how a restaurant runs is based on Management. It always goes back to Management.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

When my son was younger, we simply didn't eat out much ... or if we did we sat outside on the patio so he could walk around a bit. Most of the time when we did go out, someone ended up playing with my son out in the car. He isn't a big eater, and would only last so long playing with little toys at the table. I would NEVER let him jump around, or even wander around a restaurant .. I don't think it's safe for him, and it's rude to other patrons. So we'd leave and play outside or in the car once he couldn't sit and play.

Now he's 4.5 years old, and we can pretty much eat out anywhere, anytime. I do still bring things for him to play with, but I also make him sit in the booth or chair until we are done. He's developmentally able to do that now, and going to preschool has really helped since they were expected to sit at the lunch table.









As far as your situation, I would have been embarassed by your friend's behavior as well. I certainly understand not being able to get your kid to sit down, or sit still at 2 years old (mine sure wouldn't have!!!) but that does not mean you can disturb other patrons, or ruin restaurant property.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
I remember crying at the table because I was SOOO HUNGRY but could not choke down the warm, congealed mac-n-cheese and glazed swedish meatballs. Maybe they have improved over time?

Wow







I'm sorry to hear that. I can't vouch for every region obviously, but the Buffet restaurant we frequent is nothing like you described.


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## Christi (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I absolutely believe a toddler jumping could tear the vinyl on those shiny seats, so let's not cast aspersions on the manager, mmkay?

As it is, we have a very difficult time with our 2.5 year old, getting him to sit down. We ALWAYS request a booth because it's easier to get him to sit snuggled next to one of us than in his own chair or booster.

We do NOT allow him to behave like a maniac. Kids will be kids, but we need to teach him to be respectful of other people's space esp in a place like a restaurant. So the meal is mostly creative redirection for him









He is not allowed to get down and run around, not allowed to squirrel around under the table, he's not allowed to turn around and stare into the table behind or next to us, and he's not allowed to stand/jump up and down.

We have been going to restaurants with him since he was a baby and have always enforced basic courtesy rules, while being respectful of his needs as well. If it's clear he CAN'T stay still, one of us will take him outside to burn off some steam. Running around outside is acceptable. Running around inside is not.


I totally agree!!! I have a friend who has always let her daughter run around. I don't like going out with her. My son doesn't understand why he has to sit down when she can run around. I have worked in restaurants before and I never liked it when children are obnoxiously running/screaming/jumping around. Think about the other people who don't want to hear it. Imagine if you wanted to have a nice dinner with out your kids for once, and someone's child next to you isn't exactly being quiet. It is the last thing that I want to hear.







:


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
Wow







I'm sorry to hear that. I can't vouch for every region obviously, but the Buffet restaurant we frequent is nothing like you described.

It was 25 years ago so I imagine things have changed







The only buffet we have in this area is the "Chinese" buffet and it is definitely. not. good.

Totally OT....but funny. My dh travels a lot for work and often has to eat with others. He had never been to a buffet-like restaurant until a coworker took him to a Golden Corral. He was trying to tell me over the phone where they went to eat and he kept insisting it was called "Golden Trough". I just could not believe a restaurant would be named that. He insisted it was so and that it was a clever name seeing as it was a buffet. So I googled "buffet" and found the real name. I still giggle every time we pass one while travelling.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Christi* 
I totally agree!!! I have a friend who has always let her daughter run around. I don't like going out with her. My son doesn't understand why he has to sit down when she can run around. I have worked in restaurants before and I never liked it when children are obnoxiously running/screaming/jumping around. Think about the other people who don't want to hear it. Imagine if you wanted to have a nice dinner with out your kids for once, and someone's child next to you isn't exactly being quiet. It is the last thing that I want to hear.







:

We actually have made a rule that we do not eat out with other families with kids. It gives dd ideas that would have never occured to her.


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## Brilliantmama (Sep 28, 2006)

We've worked hard on building up to getting Abby to sit at the table and act polite so that we can ALL enjoy our meal. When she was about 2, we would get a highchair, but keep her in the booth with one of us until food was served. Then she was expected to "sit" for a relatively short period compared to a full meal. If she got rowdy before we ate, we did the walk, go outside, check out fish, etc.

Now at 3 she can sit nicely in a high chair or booster and talk with us (this made a big difference too, when we make a point to include her, she behaves better.) She knows that if she does not respect our expectations, we go to the car, (the other parent gets our meals to go) and sit in our seats while waiting for the other parent.

She also understands now that any jumping, running, yelling or crying happens away from the booth. If she is getting antsy, I usually take her to "change" her in the bathroom, so that she gets a trip to the bathroom and a chance to run around a bit before being subjected to restaurant expectations again. Now that she is older, she will ask to be "changed" even when she is dry, because she knows what it really means.
It is kind of a nice code of "Mommy, I am about lose it, can you please help me get some energy out!"

It took a lot of work and a year of interrupted meals and leaving early, but NOW we can enjoy a 60-90 minute meal together as a family.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennisee* 
But, according to the original post, the manager didn't ask that the child not jump up and down (although maybe that story is changing?). If he had, this would be an entirely different thread. He asked that the child not stand because toddler shoes somehow cause damage.

Okay ... but, also according to the OP, the kid *was* in fact jumping up and down, not simply standing still in the booth. I think the manager's request was phrased that way to avoid saying "Hey lady, tell your kid to knock it off" -- he probably thought that making it about the booth rather than the kid's behavior would soften his comment some.


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## Ilovelife (Jun 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I get really irritated by parents who think that the world should cater to their two year olds' energies.

If your two year old can't sit politely (and this is not a surprise, many if not most can't), the answer is to NOT TAKE YOUR TWO YEAR OLD INTO SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS, not take your two year old there, let her disturb everyone and damage property and then act offended if people object.











As attached parents, we should know what our children are developmentally capable of handling. IMNSHO it is selfish for parents to drag children to restaurants if it is not also pleasant for the children and the other people in the restaurant. That means the children need to be able to be safe and respectful while enjoying themselves. Standing on furniture that is not meant to be stood on, running around in places that are not meant for running around, etc. is not respectful behavior for people of ANY age. It is different than, say, dropping some food on the floor, adjusting positions frequently while (mostly) sitting, banging forks on the table, even crawling under the table (although the ick factor gets me there). It is also not respectful to expect a child to sit perfectly still and quiet for an hour. If we expect respect for ourselves and our children, we also need to be respectful of others and teach our children to be the same.


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## Ilovelife (Jun 6, 2004)

To the OP, I think the manager was well within his rights given that he is the manager, responsible for the property and the experience of his customers. Your friend reacted abruptly. Not knowing her daughter, I don't know if she had any choice but to leave, but she could have done so nicely (you could have taken the food to go, she could have maybe offered an apology, etc.)

We go out to eat fairly often. We make use of the highchairs & boosters provided and expect the kids to sit while we are at the booth. Energy is either focused on things at the booth or taken elsewhere like pp have mentioned (walk to the bathroom, time outside, look at the fish/pictures/whatever).


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
Really?







At the Buffet we go to every Sunday (Golden Corral), we experience the total opposite...it's very subdued, not too loud, not too quiet. Kind of a low hum. Probably because it's still pretty new (not quite a year old).

I bet it is cause it is new or maybe location. The Golden Corrals in the cities I have lived have been *mad houses*! We live in a very buffet crazy place (people like to eat alot for cheap); we don't avoid them entirely, but I don't at all find them restful places to eat.


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ilovelife* 









As attached parents, we should know what our children are developmentally capable of handling. IMNSHO it is selfish for parents to drag children to restaurants if it is not also pleasant for the children and the other people in the restaurant. That means the children need to be able to be safe and respectful while enjoying themselves. Standing on furniture that is not meant to be stood on, running around in places that are not meant for running around, etc. is not respectful behavior for people of ANY age. It is different than, say, dropping some food on the floor, adjusting positions frequently while (mostly) sitting, banging forks on the table, even crawling under the table (although the ick factor gets me there). It is also not respectful to expect a child to sit perfectly still and quiet for an hour. If we expect respect for ourselves and our children, we also need to be respectful of others and teach our children to be the same.

Thank you for so eloquently putting into words exactly how I feel about it.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
We actually have made a rule that we do not eat out with other families with kids. It gives dd ideas that would have never occured to her.

I don't think this is rude or unreasonable at all. We go out with friends who have the same rules we do. We can play with bouncing, jumping kids at the park - no biggie.


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## crb (Aug 22, 2005)

Hmmm, I haven't really thought about a little one standing in a booth as being so bad - maybe mine is just small, but if he sat down, his head would be bumping into the table. If he stands, he is about the same height as I am. We sit when the food comes, but I have never been in a booth that was so delicate . . . now I'm worried w/so many in opposition!

I think if it can handle adults sliding in and out it will be able to handle a kid. But obviously the op is not comfortable w/the situation, nor was the manager, who was basically telling the woman to control her kid. I probably would have wanted to leave out of embarrassment, and although she is "angry" w/ the manager, I suspect she was embarrassed as well.

Not that she should be: if the place was empty and the food hadn't come, my 18 mos ds would probably be standing in the booth next to me, being spotted by me, waving a spoon around (or walking around outside the building, or walking around looking at pics on the walls, or washing our hands in the bathroom - probably all of these things in rapid succession). We don't go out often, but I have always been more worried about the mess we leave behind . . .


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I used to bus tables - the little messes really aren't much of a problem - it is appreciated if you will put the sugar packets away though


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Jumping toddler on furniture isn't only going to tear the vinyl but springs. It isn't my furniture, it wasn't design for jumping, is my responciblity to teach my kids to respect other's property.

I would also worry about my jumping 2 year old bugging the people in the next booth.

I don't disagree with the mother leaving but how she left. If I knew my 2 year old couldn't sit I would leave. It would be to much of me to ask my child abilities. I would ask them to make my order to go or see if a walk outside would help. My dh and I have on many occassions taken our children for a walk while we waited for food.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

I think some of the disagreement is coming from how people are picturing "jumping" and "running around." Some people seem to be picturing children jumping as vigorously as if they were on a trampoline, cutting off old ladies as they run around, and screaming at the top of their lungs--which _would_ be completely inappropriate. I'm picturing the way my DD used to bounce at 2 years old. It was all knees and very gentle; her feet never left the surface she was standing on, and I could barely feel it sitting next to her. It honestly surprises me that people would have considered us rude, and now I'm wondering how many people were silently tsk-tsking us.

Maybe my perception is colored by living in a small town? There is one restaurant here, and we eat there often. My DD will stand in the booth to look around and say hi to the people behind us. She will walk over to the corner to look at the singing Santa and the plants. People here not only don't have a problem with these things, but they comment on how nice it is to have kids around. They engage her in conversation and help her turn on the Santa. I've never gotten the impression that her presence was unwelcome.


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

I'm curious as to how people define "family-friendly" restaurants? I don't think not letting a child run around and/or scream and/or jump on things means they aren't family-friendly. I also think we all need to remember how lawsuit-happy Americans can be and how extremely aware resaturant owners are of this fact.

Another question: if someone's toddler were running around (or even NOT running around but just standing on a chair or in a booth) and the toddler fell and cut her/his head and required stitches, would you hold that restaurant responsible? I would not and I know many of you mamas would not, but we all know that there are people who would, indeed, expect that restaurant owner to take responsibility for that injury. My biggest fear is that my toddler could walk up behind someone and that person, like a waiter with hot food, would not know that she's there and suddenly turn or stop and some kind of collision would take place. If she got hurt that would be MY responsibility but I'm sure the waiter would feel just awful if something happened even if it wasn't his fault.

I think taking toddlers to restaurants can be a tricky decision but one that needs to take into account the other people including the restaurant owner and the other patrons. We may think certain toddler behavior is cute and adorable but others may not. If another patron would ask you to keep your toddler under some kind of minimum control would you consider that an anti-child comment? The other side of that situation is that the patron might consider you an irresponsible parent. Jennisee, standing in a booth and saying hi IS wonderful and I would love it. But I would not love it if your dd was running around and screaming while you watched and took no action because that's just natural behavior for her age.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I'm curious as to how people define "family-friendly" restaurants?

I think of such a restaurant as one that makes an attempt to attract families. They have a kids' menu, high chairs and booster seats, seats that are sturdy and stain-proof, and a relatively short wait for food. They expect that a toddler may stand in a booth, that a child may sit on his or her knees, that a baby may drop food on the floor, and that the kids may not always speak in a quiet whisper.

Quote:

Another question: if someone's toddler were running around (or even NOT running around but just standing on a chair or in a booth) and the toddler fell and cut her/his head and required stitches, would you hold that restaurant responsible?
That would depend on a lot of factors. If "running around" means "walking around," then I would question why the child fell. If the child slipped on an unmarked wet floor or tripped on a hole in the linoleum, I would hold the restaurant as responsible as I would if an adult fell.

However, if "running around" means "running quickly instead of walking," then I wouldn't hold the restaurant responsible. I'm not really sure what that has to do with this thread, though. The child in the OP wasn't running and no one on this thread has advocated letting children _run_. I feel like the running part is being used as a straw man argument. My issue is with the idea that a 2 year old shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Quote:

If another patron would ask you to keep your toddler under some kind of minimum control would you consider that an anti-child comment?
It would depend upon what the specific behavior was and how they phrased the request. "Could you ask your child to stop throwing salt at me," makes perfect sense. "Would you shut that brat up? I'm tired of listening to her talk about Dora," would be out-of-line.

Quote:

Jennisee, standing in a booth and saying hi IS wonderful and I would love it.
That's great, but people in this thread have said that a child standing in a booth is rude and destructive.

Quote:

But I would not love it if your dd was running around and screaming while you watched and took no action because that's just natural behavior for her age.
Again, I don't understand where this part is coming from. If you read my posts, I advocated for no such thing.


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Ok, this JUST happened to me today and my family. We were at a very busy restaurant and ds asked to go there. We are seriously watching our money and this was very much a treat. Well it turned out at least for the first half to be a 'treatment'.

A woman was there with her two kids, the eldest being around 4 and the youngest around two. She had an elderly women with her also. The whole first half of our 'treat' was ruined by two screaming kids walking/jumping on the booths, and their horseplay was interjected with absentminded, "Honey, don't do that" "Get down", not even looking at her kids when she was saying this. Oh and when they were finally leaving, she just smiled indulgently at them as they were creating havoc around them.

Even my ds, 5.5 said after they left "I'm so glad they are gone! It is so much nicer now that we don't have to see that!" When they left, you wouldn't believe how much quieter the whole restaurant was! They were more than half the noise there and they were packed. I felt worse for the woman who had to sit next to the jumping/screaming kids as it was one long booth and they finally just up and paid for their meals and left.

This was just nothing but bad manners and sloppy parenting. And how tedious to sit through! It was good for a laugh though, but what a shame that our once in awhile treat had to be like this - with just putting up with the baloney until they left. What about MY families rights not to have to put up with that kind of behaviour? Oh had to edit to add while it might be 'normal' for have an active toddler and not to expect them to sit though a restaurant meal, it is also very 'normal' to have one that will. We've been going to nice restaurants from day one and 99% of the time ds is fine and when he's being rambunctious just a gentle word or two will bring him around. I know LOTS of other kids like this too, so it isn't that he is one in a million. I do think that, however, it IS unreasonable to ask your kids to behave in restaurants if they are not used to it in the home. If they are allowed to walk over kitchen tables at home (oh yes I've seen this), and on and on I think Yes it is an unreasonable request, and in which case you stay home.


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## Jennisee (Nov 15, 2004)

No one on this thread is advocating for screaming and horseplay. Not one person. My opinions are being twisted into straw men, and I think I should bow out.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Montessorimom8* 
What about MY families rights not to have to put up with that kind of behaviour?

While I totally agree with your post overall, and I am very pro-removing children if they are getting squirrelly at a restaurant, I did feel the need to point out that there is no "right" to not being around noisy and rude people. This goes for people on their cell phones, deaf elders who speak too loud, and young people talking about their nocturnal adventures at the booth next door.









However I really do agree and I think it is annoying your treat had that ambiance to it.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I'm curious as to how people define "family-friendly" restaurants?

Well, there are "family-friendly" and there are "Kid-Friendly"...those are not legal terminology by the way, just what *my* definitions are









Family Friendly to me is like a PP suggested, they have high chairs, booster seats and a Kid's Menu and generally the kids are not expected to run and jump around without Management getting angry at the Parents.

*Kid Friendly*- Is Chuck E Cheese, Joe's Crab Shack, Rainforest Cafe (you may have to google these restaurants if you are not familiar with them)...these are taylored to kids and Kids ARE expected to jump, run around and such.

Many may not consider CEC a "restaurant" but I do. Joe's Crab Shack has an Interactive Playground attached to the restaurant and Rainforest Cafe is just a whole new experience (interactive animals) for kids in itself.


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## mommaof3 (Dec 11, 2001)

We only take our young spirited kids to restaurants together (dh and I) so that one of us can take them for a walk between the time that we order and the time the food arrives (it's pretty unnatural to have to sit at a table while someone cooks your food, we don't do it at home!) and again (the other parent takes a turn) after we are done until the check is paid. We consider that to be fair to the other patrons of the restaurant...or we just don't go out.









I dream of opening a great restaurant with an outdoor playground (supervised with a GD caregiver of course!) so adults and kids needs can all be met.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
I also think we all need to remember how lawsuit-happy Americans can be and how extremely aware resaturant owners are of this fact.

That is exactly what occured to me when I read the situation. I would bet very large amounts of money that the manager wasn't really worried about the booth seat. He was worried about little toddler shoes slipping on the shiny booth seat and mama trying to sue the sh*t out of him when her child slipped and cracked her head on the booth table.

Can't you just hear all the justification about how dangerous it is to have those hard edge tables, if it was dangerous they would have a warning sign telling parents not to let their kids stand/jump on the seats, anything to push the responsibility somewhere else?


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ilovelife* 









As attached parents, we should know what our children are developmentally capable of handling. IMNSHO it is selfish for parents to drag children to restaurants if it is not also pleasant for the children and the other people in the restaurant. That means the children need to be able to be safe and respectful while enjoying themselves. Standing on furniture that is not meant to be stood on, running around in places that are not meant for running around, etc. is not respectful behavior for people of ANY age. It is different than, say, dropping some food on the floor, adjusting positions frequently while (mostly) sitting, banging forks on the table, even crawling under the table (although the ick factor gets me there). It is also not respectful to expect a child to sit perfectly still and quiet for an hour. If we expect respect for ourselves and our children, we also need to be respectful of others and teach our children to be the same.









Wonderful post, and saved me from having to write it all out









Owen (3.5 years) does really well in restaurants now, as long as I am smart about it. If he's really tired then I expect trouble. I also only go to places where I know there is something he'll eat (and since he has a very limited range of foods he pretty much eats fries whenever we go out







: ). He is not allowed to stand on the booth/chair. He's not allowed to get down off the chair/booth unless he's holding my hand walking somewhere. He's not allowed to go under the table (I did bend on that one time when we were somewhere that he didn't like anything and was getting bored and tired). He can play with the stuff on the table as long as he's not getting carried away. Sometimes he'll stack the sugar/salt/cream stuff. As long as he's not disturbing anyone else it's fine with me. We put it back at the end of our meal.


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## Janelovesmax (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm confused: are we talking about 2 year old toddler boy or 4-5 year child???
To me it looks like the expectation was too high, my son would also not want to sit still...I would not let him jump on the seat but I wouldn't be having a calm dinner either, we would probably be taking walks every 10 minutes.

If I was your friend I would remove my son from the seat and ask to pack our food "to go".


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## Deir (Aug 19, 2005)

I really don't think it is necessary to let a 2 yr old jump on the booth and I don't blame you for being embarrassed by your friend.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

My kids have always pretty much stood in a booth to eat when they were 2. They were too big for a high chair, and those booster seats really scare me - they can slide forward off the booth. I have never thought anything of it. If they were sitting on the booth itself they would not be able to reach the table.

Boy, I just started a similar thread 2 weeks ago in TAO, only I was in a kid friendly place and an old man, dining by himself in front of me, who had actually already finished eating and was reading a news paper, complained about my 1 yr old not being quiet enough (he was letting out a loud squeal now and then and I was doing my best to distract him - he was also standing in the booth pending the arrival of our dinner). The old man was so rude to me I had my dinner put in a to go box and left crying. The restaurant staff was mortified by the man, tried to get me to stay and eat, offered to move us, the waitress was stroking my baby's hair and telling me that my kids were beautiful, hadn't done anything wrong.

My thread ended up getting removed by the mods because one mdc mama said she didn't appreciate being at a restaurant unless it was like a Chucky Cheese and hearing other people's kids scream. Boy, there were 92 posts in 2 hours, and another thread even referenced that thread and the other mamas were ripping into that mama like you wouldn't believe for being unsupportive of me (I painted a pretty pathetic picture, won't repeat the whole story here).

Kids DO have a right to be in public places. The op didn't say the child was running around the restaurant, or screaming (I don't think). I think the manager over reacted. And for those of you that have not had it happen, it can be painful when you feel your child(ren) is being unfairly criticized.

And totally off topic, I LOVE SHAGGYDADDY!








~Tracy


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## Zach'smom (Nov 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wugmama* 
Kids DO have a right to be in public places. The op didn't say the child was running around the restaurant, or screaming (I don't think). I think the manager over reacted. And for those of you that have not had it happen, it can be painful when you feel your child(ren) is being unfairly criticized


I don't think the manager over reacted at all. He simply asked in a polite way not to let the kids jump in the booth. That is a perfectly reasonable request. He wasn't critizing her children. I don't think a child of any age should be allowed to jump on the seat in a restaurant.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

This thread interested me because we just went out to eat (a very rare event) a few days ago. If my dc (12 mo and 3 1/2) needed to stay seated for an entire meal, we'd either 1) never _ever_ eat out, or 2) parent our children in a very different way.

My 12 mo dd stood for most of it, turned around, "chatted" with the folks behind us, and made a few not-too-pleasant noises. My 3 yr old stood on the seat periodically, climbed under to get to me, and made a bit of a mess. I'm sure there are people who would be annoyed by those things, but they probably shouldn't be eating at Applebee's at 5:30 on a Saturday, kwim? We do try to model considerate behavior in these situations by asking other diners if we're bothering them (during the "chatting"), speaking softly and reminding dc to do the same, being polite and friendly to the waitstaff, getting up and going outside or walking when necessary, and cleaning up our table as much as possible.

We are very conscious of our responsibility to teach our children to be considerate of other people's feelings and property, but at the same time, you can't live on this earth without ever offending someone. Children should not have to act like little adults to be at family place. I think that those parents who have kids who are quiet and still for meals either have very different children than I do, or are disciplining in such a way to that they can get behavior that is not developmentally appropriate. Not many 2 yr olds are capable of sitting for more than 10 minutes w/o some major distraction.

This is really a slippery slope topic, and is covered on mdc regularly (e.g. what is appropriate behavior in church?, can kids go to fancy restaurants?, can kids go to concerts?, where is it OK to bf and how much skin can you show while you're doing it? etc.) What it boils down to, imo, is that we all have different levels of comfort with acceptable behavior in children, and adults for that matter.

FWIW, I _would_ let a 2 yr old bounce on a diner seat, and I _would_ be embarassed if we were asked to make him stop, and probably wouldn't return! I'm sure that's where the OPs friend was coming from. It's embarassing to have someone correct your parenting, hence the need to leave asap! But I would never never assume it was OK to make anyone else leave, too.


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

I guess I just don't see the need for any child to be standing on a booth while eating. To me that is *far* more dangerous than a booster. We always brought our own boosters with a 5 point harness or he sat on his knees. Sometimes he'd sit on my lap. By one of these methods he always reached the table. If he was antsy we'd go to the dreaded buffets because you can get your food fast. Different strokes I guess.


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## offwing (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *colleen95* 
FWIW, I _would_ let a 2 yr old bounce on a diner seat, and I _would_ be embarassed if we were asked to make him stop, and probably wouldn't return! I'm sure that's where the OPs friend was coming from. It's embarassing to have someone correct your parenting, hence the need to leave asap! But I would never never assume it was OK to make anyone else leave, too.

Really? I went back and read what the manager said and it was just a request. It didn't sound like he was being snotty, or sneering at her or doing anything but asking her to stop letting the child jump on the seats.

I can see being embarrassed and leaving (huffy or not) immediately if someone was speaking in a harsh, insulting or demeaning tone of voice, but this definitely didn't sound like what happened.

Also the friend's reactions didn't sound embarrassed. She was the one that sounded like she was pissed off and left in a huff.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:

Also the friend's reactions didn't sound embarrassed. She was the one that sounded like she was pissed off and left in a huff.
I really don't know. Just trying to put myself in the other mama's shoes. I think the OP would get more out of trying to sympathize with and understand her friend if she wants to maintain the friendship. Was she pissed off, or was she tired, hungry, and overwhelmed the way I am on a regular basis? Maybe it seemed silly to her that her 2 yr old could actually damage a seat. It does to me.


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

When we went out to eat with our little ones, they always sat in the highchair the entire meal. If they were figety, they went outside with a parent to run around for a little while. Climbing out of the high chair was never a problem because we would slip the seat belt through their shirt sleeves and attach it under their shirt. So they had freedom of movement, but had to sit still. I would also do that in shopping carts. We also brought lots of coloring books and toys for them to play with, so they weren't bored. It really helped to keep them in the seats, and taught them what was expected without the constant nagging to sit down.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Yeah, I just can't get behind kids being up and about during mealtimes at restaurants. I know that puts me in the minority here on MDC, but that's OK with me. Mealtime is sitting time in our family. So, when the kids are little, mealtimes are short, and we don't go out to eat much at all. They learn to sit longer as they get older and are able to sit longer BECAUSE they are older. I understand that not everyone is like us, but others need to understand that some of us aren't charmed by wandering, enthusiastic kids in restaurants (though we WOULD be charmed by them in other, more appropriate places - I LOVE kids and their energy and passion, in appropriate venues). I realize I have pretty high standards for public behavior, especially in church, in theaters/performances, and in restaurants...those are the three main places I believe people go and desire to be undisturbed. In other public places, I'm pretty relaxed and enjoy kids in all their glory.

I just am not down with kids standing in booths, walking around, engaging other patrons, etc. I just don't find it cute or funny. My kids have plenty of other opportunities throughout the day to stretch their legs/walk around/stand on stuff/interact with the general population.

I came here off the spinoff thread, and will post my general motto here as well: "My right to enjoy myself in public ends when I (or my kids) start to disturb yours."

I LOVE kids, but I don't love expecting them to be socially appropriate before they are developmentally ready to do so - and I do not entirely endorse the 'but how will they learn if they never practice?' - I respond with - 'they will mature into the ability'. Then again, what is socially appropriate now is apparently different than it was when I was a kid (she writes with some sadness) - but THAT is a topic for another thread.

ALSO, a BIG ALSO, much of it has to do with the parental reaction to the child, at least for me. "Johnny, stop that honey" repeated 20 times while not actively doing anything to teach your child REALLY bugs me. But a prent engaged with their child actively trying to teach them in public places gets a LOT more sympathy/support from me. The second parent scenario is NOT what I'm talkign about in my post - that one isn't even an issue to me, because those parents are engaged and responsive; the first scenario is, and is the one I've unfortunately seen much more often.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't think "take off your shoes" is a legitimate option (for anyone walking age) in a restaurant. Its a health code violation.

There was about a year and a half with each child that we just didn't eat out. Between like 18 months and 3 years old. Just was not worth the stress, to pay money to spend 90 minutes trying to control a small child in an uncontrolable situation. Not fun for any of us. We had take-out pretty frequently during the toddler years!

Now that they are older -- there are new issues. Like negotiating 4 different but strong opinions about _where_ we should eat out.







And booths are now out of the question. Everyone fights about who gets to sit next to mommy! We get a table, so that both kids can sit next to mommy, in their own clearly designated space, that does not encroach so closely on mommy that she cannot actually lift her fork....

But -- I am going off track here, I guess.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

We pretty much stuck to take out until my younger DD was 4. We didn't find eating out very enjoyable with a toddler.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

My definition of a family friendly restaurant is one that doesn't have table clothes on the table. Seriously.

Table clothes and wiggly kids is a recipe for disaster.

We get loads of complements on our kids in restaurants. I have no clue why though, but they don't run around , scream or bounce on the seats.

Our kids are 7,5,2 and 10 weeks


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## purplevega (Apr 17, 2005)

We took DS to a fine dining restaurant on Saturday. Our babysitter canceled 30 minutes before our reservations. I was all dolled up and didn't want to miss a nice meal. I told myself it would be fine...and guess what it was. We sang songs(quitely), played eye spy, colored, and took a few bathroom breaks. DS was really good. I kept reminding him to show his manners and he did. He had a fun time and so did DH and I. I would have never thought an almost 3 year old would sit through a five course meal for 2 hours. The waiter was very helpful, never having us wait more then a few minutes between courses.

Kim


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I would have been pissed at the friend.

I wouldn't "let" my kid jump up and down in the booth at Chuck-E-Cheese. And believe me when I tell you that my kids dive off the back of our couch, perform on the coffee table, and jump on our bed. But out? Nope. Not cool.

A HUGE part of my parenting style (what most people here call Consensual Living) is respecting other people's needs, wants, and wishes--and finding a solution that takes all parties into consideration.


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