# I don't know if it was a baby or not!



## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Tomorrow will be a week since I had my second miscarriage and I am terribly bothered by the fact that I did not look to see what came out. My midwife came right after my 1st miscarriage and she told me that it was just an empty sac--what the doctors call a "blighted ovum". I was very disapponted that I would not be having a baby, but there was no grief, as I knew I had not had a baby who died. This time my husband and I were alone and even though we had been through it before, it was scarey. When we heard something drop into the toilet, neither one of us could bear to look and see. I was not in good shape with all the cramps and heavy bleeding and felt I could not handle it emotionally. Now that a week has gone by, I feel just terrible that I flushed what could have been my baby. It just bothers me so much on top of all the grief that I am feeling. Now I so much wish that I could have known what I passed while sitting on the toilet. I know that there is nothing I can do about it now, but I am hoping that putting it in words will help me and maybe someone else has done the same thing as me. I hope I never have another miscarriage, but if I do I will have a midwife with me as I did the first time. It is just as important as a full term birth.


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Myhannas, A warm and gentle welcome to Mothering







. I'm so very sorry about the loss of your baby.

Please know that even a blighted Ovum was a baby. All the cells were there to make the baby, they just never split. Please know that both of your losses were significant and real. You have every right to greive their losses.

I can feel the pain in your words about not looking at your baby. At this point, there is no way to go back there and that alone can cause a lot of greif.

You can find some ways to come to terms with this loss. It will take a great deal of time searching on your part.

Something many mothers find helpful is to write a letter to the baby they lost. You can tell him/her how badly you wanted him and the love and dreams you had for your baby. Find something that is a reminder of your baby. For me it's butterflies and fairies. For some it's Angles. Use that symbol to remember and bring peace.

Your body has been through a great deal. Please make sure your taking good care of yourself. Drink pleanty of fluids to keep yourself hydrated. Red rasberry leaf tea is an excellent blend to keep hydrated and balance your hormones. Eat small meals frequently thorughout the day. Try to keep something in your stomach without getting full. Get as much rest as possible.

It's so hard to take care of ourselves when we're feeling so lost.

Please come here as often as you need to for support.

I'm going to move this thread to our main Pregnancy and Infant Loss Forum as I think it fits better over there.

Peace and gentleness to you.


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## alixzara (Jun 26, 2002)

I was at 9 weeks when the miscarriage was diagnosed. Then I just waited.
One week later, on Tuesday, I started bleeding. By last Friday, I was cramping a lot.

I had taken my daughter to a homeschool social day at our county rec center. I started feeling really bad, and had to ask another mama to look after my daughter while I excused myself to the bathroom, because I felt something coming out.

It was there I really lost the baby. In a dirty bathroom stall, alone. I couldn't collect it...I couldn't bring the baby home to lay to rest with us in our garden...I couldn't really say goodbye in a formal way. It was one of the saddest days of my life.

I totally understand your regret, and hope my camaraderie will soothe your soul. We never know if, when or how it will happen, or how we will react.

I consoled myself by planting a garden and naming it after baby Dove. The baby's soul ascended long before my body let it go, so I hold on to the fact that I didn't flush the real Dove. (sorry that sounds so cold and graphic, but I'm tired and not too eloquent right now.)

Do be gentle with yourself, and do whatever you need to heal.
I hope I have helped in some small way. Please feel free to PM me if you want to talk, I'd be honored to listen.


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Dear Alixzara,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, knowing that I am not alone does make me feel better. I am sorry for your loss...thank you for sharing the personal details of your miscarriage with me. I do not find it gross at all. In fact, when I want to talk about my miscarriages, I feel like I have to leave that stuff out and probably most women do. Maybe that is why the reality of a miscarriage was a shock to me even though I am a registered nurse! I had no idea that the cramping could be severe, that there would be so much blood and clots and most heartbreaking of all, that my baby would fall out into the toilet and the only way I could see it would be to fish it out. As I said before, I will never go through a miscarrriage without my midwife to help. She was able to do what my husband and I could not do, when I had my first miscarriage and it helped me alot. By the way, I had a beautiful baby boy between my two miscarriages. I wanted to end on a happy note and thinking of him makes me feel happy. Again, THANK YOU. From the first miscarriage, I know that only time heals the grief, but it never completely goes away--just fades quite a bit. With Gratitude, Lisa


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## 1jooj (Apr 8, 2002)

I wanted to add my empathy. I lost an ectopic baby--had to take methotrexate to speed the loss process.

What came out only vaguely resembled anything living; I suppose there was a good deal of degeneration before I expelled the baby.

But I still wanted to kiss it goodbye, and I still feel very sad when I think of the loss.


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Dear Ummnuh,
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I know that you know how I am feeling and it really helps. I am feeling better today thanks to this discussion. I have found that women experience this type of loss in so many different ways and it is always hard. I will always remember your story. Lisa


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## EmmalinesMom (Feb 9, 2003)

Hi Lisa,

First {{{{Huge Hugs}}}} to you.









Each person's loss, or losses, is significant. No one's is more or less, just different. You have every right to mourn the loss of your children however you need to.

I tested positive on Feb 11, and saw my baby's heartbeat on March 12. The sac was a little off, though, so I had to go back for another u/s on in 2 weeks. There was no heartbeat. My baby had died.









My body wouldn't let go, though, and when my midwife became concerned about the risk of infection, I had to have a d&c. My baby was sucked out of my body and discarded with medical waste. But she was still mine, and I still love her. During the time between when we found out she died and the d&c, I started work on a quilt in her memory.

I'm so sorry for your losses. I truly am.


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Dear Jennifer,
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I am truly moved by the number of women with whom I share in the grief of losing a child. My heart goes "back out" to you. I am sorry and really appreciate you telling me the story of your miscarriage. You are so strong--I don't know if the medical staff realizes that we feel that these early embryos are every bit as much our babies as the full-term ones. I think I have been too worried and guilty about flushing what came out during my miscarriage. I am starting to feel a little bit better. I did what I thought was right at the time and I can't change that. I still wish, though, that I had let my midwife come...Ah well...I wish you love and peace.
With Gratitude,
Lisa


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

NOt to sound moprbid but I think the whole baby in the toilet thing is the worst thing.

i felt horrible but I didn't know what else to do. We were visiting friends when the baby passed. I just sat on the floor and cried becaused I was just so alone. My dh was in the next room but I don't tink he would have had the same reasponse as i had. i know I should have gotten him but it was something I had to do alone.....

I'm planning on planting a garden for Sweetpea soon.....Dh boght me a ring for Mother's Day and I plan on getting it engraved with ds's initials and those of Sweetpea.......


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Dear Tracy,
Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. For me, too, one of the worst things was hearing that splash into the toilet--I don't think it is morbid or gross at all--just reality. For days, all I could think about was how horrible it was to flush my baby down the toilet. Neither my husband nor I felt we could cope with fishing around in the toilet at that split second that it happened. I know that little spirit was not in there anymore, but it felt somehow disrespectful to deal with it's physical side in that way. I do feel that I have come to terms with it though--we did the best we could at the time--a scarey and sad time. I came out of the experience changed though. I had decided that I would wait to contact my midwife until a hearbeat could be heard, but now I would contact her as soon as I had a missed period. I had a midwife come right after my 1st miscarriage happened and I now realize how incredibly helpful she was to my husband and I. She did not think it was gross at all to take what I passed out of the toilet. At first I thought, how can she do that?? Now I so much appreciate that she could. I guess not everyone needs to have what is passed, but I know now that I am someone who does. Again tracy, thank you. It is very comforting to me to know that another mom out there had the same feelings as I did. My sympathies to you and your husband for your loss.
With love and gratitude, Lisa


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Reading this brought back strong memories of my first miscarriage almost 14 years ago. I too flushed. it was awful, yet i didnt know what else to do. i could not, just couldnt, reach into the toilet and get it. and to be truthful,. i am not sure what i would have done with it, even now. would i have buried it, i dont know.

go easy on yourself. whats done is done, and you cant change it. like the others said, grieve and rest. its a scary thing. i was.


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

I miscarried last Dec., after finding out at my 12 week appt. that the baby had died at about 7 weeks... I had 4 days to prepare before my body gave up the baby. I was home alone (well.. with my 4 yo and 2yo!) when the baby passed.. and like a woman possessed I sccoped in the toilet with a slotted spoon, feeling ill and sort of hopeless trying to find something in there... but I found my baby and wrapped him up. Please don't think I'm terrribly morbid, but he's in my feezer until June when I will bury him. I've never told anyone except my husband that.
I'm glad I did what I did, and am glad there are other women who don't think I'm a freak for doing it. It was terribly hard.. and had I stopped to think about it, I never would have been able to cope with it. It feels good to be able to share my experience with you.. I haven't talked about it to anyone since it happened, and then I only told my husband, who really didn't have much to say.
Lisa and Megan...I understand your greif. Just know that your baby is a spirit. not a body.. and is with you always.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

In all honesty...I'm not sure what I would have done if I had been at home and alone....I probably would have gotten her out....but then I wouldn't have known what to do.....we don't own our home and I can't see myself burying her at my parents house next to the family dog......


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## ellery (Apr 24, 2003)

i know how you feel any loss is terrible i lost my first son at 2 days old of complications from a blood clot we never knew while i was pregnant which i personally think the ob should have but that is a titally other story. It really sucks its benn almost 3 years and i still have days that i lose it. Im so glad i have another baby to share my love with and he is a wonderful healthy 8 month old. You absolutley shoulkd try again it wont replace the ones you lost but you need to know that you can be a mother and i so hope it all works out. Just know that everything happens for a reason even though you may not know what it is or why it happened and you wont like it but it does get better every day. Know that they are in a wonderful place they will always be with you and you will one day see them again or you may even get ine back they choose you for whatever reason. It takes a special person to cope with a loss of this cacity know that it wasnt your fault and that there are things to do to keep careful watch. The best of luck to you and keep in touch i want to know how wonderful your labor is adn keep smiling the worst thing you can do is let it beat you.


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Wow, first let me say BAU3--your story is just wondrful and incredible on so many levels. I think it is just wonderful that you were able to rescue your baby from the toilet--what an incredibly brave woman you are! The fact that your baby is in the freezer--I don't think that is awful at all. I would have done the same thing!! I still have a placenta from two years ago in my freezer. I know we will be moving again and I can't bear to leave it behind. I know some people might raise an eyebrow at your story, but I don't think Mothering moms will. I am so glad you told me and it is out in the open. I did not have the courage to take my baby out of the toilet and some women are in the hospital or at the doctor's office and cannot have their babies. Other women do not feel that it is the most important thing to have the physical body to grieve properly. I respect all these thoughts--I really do. I know that, just for me, I would have liked it if I had the courage to do what you did. Also, I don't know how you passed your baby all alone with your little ones. I could not have cared for them--I felt so grateful that my husband was home as he travels alot. Anyway, this is long. I have read every response to my thread and love you all!!


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## alixzara (Jun 26, 2002)

I just wanted to say to everyone, especially Lisa, that this has been an incredibly healing thread to participate in. I find it so *ironic that so many of us feel misunderstood or even freakish when we discuss these losses, yet there are so so many of us that have endured.

It is an immensely comforting thought to be a part of this particular community, however tiny. The stories of courage, kindness, strength and sheer woman-ness are inspiring. What we go through...alone. Not only are we strong enough to have babies - we're strong enough to lose them, too. (I hope that statement isn't offensive. It's intended as a compliment, in my own backwards way.)

I have vowed that I will do my best to really be there for the women in my life in the future. We all have a story...

Thank you.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I agree.... we are all strong...we have to be. We go through so much that no one ever knows about!

I too have vowed to be there for every women and to talk to them unashamed of the things that I have doneor had happened to me!


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

This is a beauitful place of healing. I feel so greatful to Mothering for letting us have this forum to share with other women.

I hope you all know your stories are very beautiful. Nothing mobid at all. You're all mothers who deeply love your children - even those that couldn't stay with you.

My miscarriages were VERY early. Just cramping and clotting, so I never had anything pass that even resembled a sac. However, I know I would have fished in the toilet if I thought something was in there.

It's funny how we all have different feelings and actions. But our losses bring us together.

I wish more people would talk about this. It's a very natural and normal part of life. 1 in 4 pregnancies ends in a loss of some kind. You would think as a society we could be more open.

Thank you all for sharing. It's so comforting to me to know you feel safe here to do so.


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## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

I labored all night with a miscarriage. In the morning I had a D&C. I was so young, and so freaked out. The doctor asked me if I wanted to see the baby. I had not even thought about it. I said, "yes", without hesitation. Oh, he was so small and perfect and wow, amazing. The doctor asked if I though my very young husband would like to see it. I told him, I was sure he would. He passed out. He was forever traumatized by this. Which I found bizarre. I will be forever grateful for that doctor. I don't know what happen to the baby after that, I didn't even think about it, I wish I could have known more and took it home.


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## Myhannas (May 7, 2003)

Debra has truly said it all--perfectly and beautifully. What she said is in my heart and head too!! It is a painful group to be in. but I love the statement that we are strong enough to have babies and even strong enough to lose them--just beautiful. Love to all who read this thread. Lisa


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to tell you all what I did when I had my miscarriage a couple of weeks ago. When I started bleeding heavily and it was pretty clear that I really was miscarrying, I got our colander from the kitchen. It was a big metal one and it fit exactly on the rim of the toilet. For me, the physical body means a lot, and I couldn't bear to have my baby fall into the toilet.

After three days of huge, horrible clots falling in the colander, the baby finally came out. I was seven weeks along, but the baby was just a little clear bubble with a blackeyed-pea-size being in it. Obviously it had stopped developing at the very beginning. I had dreaded seeing it because I thought it would be very human-looking, so in a way I was relieved.

I felt such peace because I knew I could take that little baby and bury it. I know some people don't wish to or feel the need, but I do. And like someone else said, it's still in my freezer, because we haven't had nice weather to bury it.

I just thought I'd share this... I hope none of us ever goes through this again. But if you do and you can think about it ahead of time, the colander worked perfectly to catch the baby. Of course, it was ruined for spaghetti after that...









Kristi


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## butternut (Jan 3, 2004)

Kristi-thanks for bringing this thread back up again. I had not seen it and I am so grateful to read how open and reassuring all you mammas can be! Thank you. I think that unless a mother has been through a natural miscarriage, it can be so hard to really understand all the physical aspects and the emotional turmoil about whether or not the baby is found or saved or lost or flushed or...it has just been impossible trying to explain this to people! And here, right here I found that there are many of you who understand perfectly. Thank you for sharing. My natural miscarriages have been horrible adn every time I felt like I was in too bad a state to look for and keep the baby--I kept thinking I saw him/her but obviously not all the times could have been true. Then afterwards I deeply regretted not trying harder. This is something I will have to accept. Like one of you said, it is good to remember the baby is a soul and not just a body.


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## SamuraiEarthMama (Dec 3, 2002)

if i had a friend who was sad about flushing their baby, i'd talk about how their baby was returned to the earth somehow... either through a septic system, or by settling in a wastewater treatment plant and being incinerated or recycled via bacteria... one way or another, that baby was returned to the earth, even if she didn't get a chance to bury it herself.

and perhaps the baby didn't call to her to be rescued... maybe it was ready to leave, and it was the kindest thing she could do, to let it go as gently and quickly as possible.

writing a letter would be what i'd suggest... and maybe a ceremony with friends, where she could choose a place in her garden to plant living things to remember her baby with.

k


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