# high needs/difficult sleeper= suffering marriage



## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

It's feeling to me that when you have a high needs/difficult child who won't go to bed, sleeps little, and wakes often that it's just inevitable that your marriage will suffer. You're chronically tired, stressed, and have little to no time together. If you don't have any time together, you can't talk, connect, or do much of anything.
So what does one do? Just have an agreement with one's spouse that life will suck relationship-wise until the child gets old enough to handle some of his emotional difficulties by himself?
Without family help, how does one survive maintaining one's sanity and marriage?

I should note that my child is equally challenging during the day which makes connecting at that time impossible, too.
I realize that in most places in the world people have family support which allows them to remain connected to their kids (without doing things like CIO) but still have the space to connect with their spouse and get things done in their lives.

So what does one do when you don't have that support/help?


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## jldumm (Sep 6, 2006)

we are by no means succeeding, but what we do is grab it when we can talk about it a lot, plan ahead and use those 15 minutes for some quality time. we did just last week have a discussion about when we can hang out when not doing chores,., it seems like one of us is always holding baby or doing chores- but we are working on it.


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

How old is your child?
(We've had similar issues, btw)


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emese'sMom* 
How old is your child?
(We've had similar issues, btw)

My son is now 3.


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## texasmamaof4 (Sep 26, 2006)

My high needs/not so good sleeper is sharing our bed and nursing at night still and is 25 months old today. We have three other kids, all older. I think we have just dealt with it in two ways - knowing it is temporary in the scheme of things and that we will have time alone together at some point and also grabbing a few minutes together when we can. So much of our energy goes into parenting that we have just adapted to that as our norm, but we have been coparenting our entire marriage, as I brought a child into the marriage and then we had three together in quick succession. We do agree that she needs to be in our bed and we are starting to agree that she might need to move to a bed of our own in her room. My husband is supportive of my AP'ing her, though he doesn't do very much of the care of her at all, mostly because he is dealing with our two young sons. Anyway, we have very little help or family support, too, and have been out together on a date about once or twice since she was born...but we are strangely happy together still and our marriage is not crumbling around us...I attribute this to the fact that we are in agreement that during this time of our life/marriage, we will set aside our needs for Lauren's. She was born with a birth defect (bilateral club feet), is dh's only girl and is the baby princess in our home, which doesn't hurt her chances of getting what she wants from us at any given moment.














don't know if that helps or not but I hope so.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

In that case, I'd say try to create your own family help through some sort of parenting group or religious group. If your 3-year-old is outright special-needs, your family might also qualify for some respite care, OT etc. through the state.


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

The approach we've been taking is that it's temporary, but I do feel resentment over how unbalanced our lives are.
I spoke with someone yesterday who was telling me the need to have children in bed at a certain time and stay in bed so that parents can have much needed time together. And I do agree that a couple really does need to have some time, at least to talk and discuss their lives.
The way the culture in the U.S. is with everybody having to take care of themselves without much family help seems so bad for families. Having a child has really opened my eyes to the need for closer extended family and a more group oriented approach. Especially a very high needs child is too much for one couple to handle by themselves. You suffer too much.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Find a babysitter and spend time together once a week, at least.

My husband and I discussed the fact (it is a fact, shown by studies) that the time that is hardest on a marriage, when they are most likely to end in divorce, when marital satisfaction is lowest, is when there are small children. We had an understanding going into it that it was not going to be easy, that we would go through periods of feeling disconnected from each other most likely, and that it would pass. Those same studies show that the best time in a marriage is when the kids move out, even higher marital satisfaction than when you're newlyweds. So we keep our eye on the prize


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## lotus.blossom (Mar 1, 2005)

I find that my dh and I really enjoy driving around in the car. Which is funny because the first year of our sons life was constant screaming in the car. Now he loves it if he has a snack, and my dh and I can chat about stuff in peace.


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## I_Am_Mom (Nov 26, 2007)

I know the "rules" of this site require a more relaxed relationship, and I am new to the site, so forgive for that, but children will only go so far as to what you allow them. Set boundaries. Set a 'date' night with your spouse. Request one of your family members in the area to watch the child/ren if you can't afford a babysitter.

Don't give in. I have my eye on the golden prize and I can't wait for us to get there!


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## texasmamaof4 (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *I_Am_Mom* 
Set a 'date' night with your spouse. Request one of your family members in the area to watch the child/ren if you can't afford a babysitter.

I think part of the OP's issue seems to be a lack of nearby family support. I am in the same boat - don't trust MIL's supervision of my kids and my dad is not really comfortable yet with the littlest one. It was so much easier when my mom was living and could keep the kids.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TudoBem* 
It's feeling to me that when you have a high needs/difficult child who won't go to bed, sleeps little, and wakes often that it's just inevitable that your marriage will suffer. You're chronically tired, stressed, and have little to no time together. If you don't have any time together, you can't talk, connect, or do much of anything.
So what does one do? Just have an agreement with one's spouse that life will suck relationship-wise until the child gets old enough to handle some of his emotional difficulties by himself?
Without family help, how does one survive maintaining one's sanity and marriage?

I should note that my child is equally challenging during the day which makes connecting at that time impossible, too.
I realize that in most places in the world people have family support which allows them to remain connected to their kids (without doing things like CIO) but still have the space to connect with their spouse and get things done in their lives.

So what does one do when you don't have that support/help?

I have a high needs child (now 25 months old) who sleeps 8 hours at night (not through) and does not nap. She is very demanding during the day. I have no help other than my dh. We are expecting another baby any time now. We try to talk frequently about how things will just suck for awhile, but will be great in a few years. We pretty much accept the fact that we won't have any couple time OR personal time, we will be tired and cranky for the next 4 years or so. We both praise each other's efforts to do things around the house and stuff like that. We know we both have it difficult right now, but we know it won't always be like this. We give each other quick hugs, light slaps on the butt, and stuff like that just to remain connected as spouses, so it doesn't seem like we are nothing more than roommates.


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## brokensemaphore (Aug 30, 2007)

Our situation is exactly like this. My husband thinks that being a daddy ends at 10pm and refuses to help me at night. He hasn't slept in the same room as me and our son in over 2 months. It takes a good 30-60 minutes of rocking, nursing, bouncing, etc. to get Ryan to sleep, and my husband huffs and puffs the whole time, then says something mean and goes to sleep on the couch.

Ryan is very high needs 24/7 and will hardly allow anyone to put him down. My husband has no patience with him whatsoever. One of our main sources of fighting is that he'll get pissed that Ryan's crying while I'm trying to comfort him, so he takes him and then gets frustrated after 10 seconds and gets nasty with the baby!! "Why won't you shut up," "don't you ever stop crying?" etc. Of course that pisses ME off and there's the cycle. Our marriage is in pieces over all of this.

I'm sorry I don't have any solutions, I just wanted to relate to your situation.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Someone who really wants to can find a trustworthy sitter, family or not, almost anywhere. It's a matter of priorities. The fact is, even if the person isn't ideal and just like you, as long as they respect your parenting choices, we're talking about 2-3 hours once a week here. Kids needs their parents to have a healthy relationship as much as they need anything. Your relationship is their model for what a relationship should be. So IMO making your own relationship a priority is extremely important. I also think it's good for kids to be with other people without parents sometimes.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
Someone who really wants to can find a trustworthy sitter, family or not, almost anywhere.

Maybe you can FIND one but you can't necessarily AFFORD one.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

You could always do a babysitting swap or co-op. That's free and it helps your friends, too! I say beg, borrow or steal to get some alone time with dh. Three years is a LONG time to be dealing with these issues. Also, since your child is no longer an infant or toddler, it might be worthwhile to re-evaluate your parenting strategies somewhat.







: IMO, parenting is about balancing dc's needs with the rest of the family. It begins at 100% baby, 0% everything else (i.e. marriage, housework, etc) but I think it is fine to shift that equilibrium over time. Your three year old's needs are not the same as that of a newborn and it is ok to consider that in your response to him.


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## pitchfork (May 3, 2005)

I really sympathize with the OP, and feel the same way, plus resentful, lately of parents of non high needs kids who don't understand and give easy to give, impossible to follow advice. Like, just set boundaries, etc. etc. Take more time for yourself, etc. You have to do what seems best for your kiddo, and it can be sooo draining. I'm just starting to entertain a sitter, but DS is super high needs, with wicked sepatation anxiety. I still have to tell myself NO I didn't cause it by APing him, which of course I secrely fear. It's really reassuring that we're not the only one's out there. Thanks for posting

MY DH and I lie in bed after DS has FINALLY fallen asleep (can take 2 hours) and talk. Our therapist (we actually took our DS with us to couples counselling for lack of a better solution and because we knew it would be a civil, problem solving session) said that men respond really well to simple touch, rather than words, so I try and just rub his shoulder, squeeze his hand, peck on the cheek, whatever I can manage as often as I can and it seems to help. I also ask for this from him and he does it when he can. HTH.


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Well, you can't "force" a 3 year-old to go to bed or stay in bed unless you're either really strict and/or they're very compliant, neither one of which is mine. Mine has sensory issues and trouble with unwinding and self-regulation, so to switch to more our needs would just mean that he would scream constantly and make our lives even more difficult.
But if we did get some sort of caged crib, force him to stay in it, do cry it out (including the wipe them up when they vomit, then put them back in thing) then every night we could force him to stay in bed so we could have our time, but there is a cost with that. When you have a super challenging child nothing is easy and the simple solutions people give have major repercussions.
Regarding finding a babysitter for 3 hours a week, I agree with the pp that you pay dearly for good care. And mediocre care can be a bit scarey.
But the issue persists that it's the connecting time every day, to check in, to spend some time together just as a couple. With a tough kid that doesn't sleep, there isn't the time or the energy. You're just so focused on survival.
And I feel with my child if we had done CIO when he was a baby, he would be a very angry child right now. He would have screamed and vomited and been terrified for hours every night.
There's no easy answer. These kids are tough and can be very demoralizing for an individual and a couple.
I guess we're just waiting for the passage of time and we hope and pray that he will be able to function on an even level as he grows.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

At 3, what about preschool? Some children that age (even high-needs) who don't want to be babysat, still enjoy a couple of hours of preschool a few times a week; and in some areas you can get that subsidized so it is cheaper than babysitting. If you can coordinate that with your DH's lunch time or something then maybe you could have lunch together now and then.


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## TudoBem (Aug 30, 2004)

Preschool is an excellent idea and some of my previous posts detail the struggles we've been having. I signed up for a co-op 2 days a week with the intention of getting into a 3 day program, too. Everything is full now, so I haven't been able to get into a 3 day, and our 2 day isn't enough since I have to work one of the days.
We've also thought about just plain daycare but the costs are really high.
I'm actually considering going back to work full-time and putting my son into daycare full time because life has just been so perpetually hard. But that does feel like I'm throwing in the towel and giving up and I worry about the influences my son would encounter and how the lack of time with me could negatively impact him, especially with his high needs.
No easy answers.
But yes, if I could get him into a preschool program that would most definitely help. Preschool is awesome.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TudoBem* 
Preschool is an excellent idea and some of my previous posts detail the struggles we've been having. I signed up for a co-op 2 days a week with the intention of getting into a 3 day program, too. Everything is full now, so I haven't been able to get into a 3 day, and our 2 day isn't enough since I have to work one of the days.
We've also thought about just plain daycare but the costs are really high.
I'm actually considering going back to work full-time and putting my son into daycare full time because life has just been so perpetually hard. But that does feel like I'm throwing in the towel and giving up and I worry about the influences my son would encounter and how the lack of time with me could negatively impact him, especially with his high needs.
No easy answers.
But yes, if I could get him into a preschool program that would most definitely help. Preschool is awesome.

I don't see a good-quality daycare and full-time working as "throwing in the towel."


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## Valian (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TudoBem* 
It's feeling to me that when you have a high needs/difficult child who won't go to bed, sleeps little, and wakes often that it's just inevitable that your marriage will suffer. You're chronically tired, stressed, and have little to no time together. If you don't have any time together, you can't talk, connect, or do much of anything.
So what does one do? Just have an agreement with one's spouse that life will suck relationship-wise until the child gets old enough to handle some of his emotional difficulties by himself?
Without family help, how does one survive maintaining one's sanity and marriage?

So what does one do when you don't have that support/help?

Our relationship doesn't suffer primarily because Dh and I are on _exactly_ the same page with how to handle Ds' high sleep needs. Ds is pretty mellow during the day, so I admit we're in a slightly easier situation in that its not 24/7, but Dh really does his share. In fact, he is rocking and holding Ds during nap time right now.

I think finding a babysitter is just silly advice when you have kids like this. Aside from finding and paying for someone, its not like these kids are always easy to transition into care with someone else. If the whole point is to not traumatize your kid while getting some relaxing adult time with a spouse, then leaving a scared, angry, tired child with a stranger isn't going to acheive either goal.

Things we do to get time together:
1. Talk while toddler is sleeping in someone's arms, complete with random pauses to keep him from waking up. White noise in the background helps
2. Talk in the driveway with sleeping toddler in car seat. We have lots of good conversations this way actually.
3. Talk while Ds is playing on playground equipment, in the sand, at the mall play area, etc. It a public place but Ds is occupied and we have some time, albeit interrupted. Favorite stores work well too. Ds loves to open and close washer/dryer doors, kitchen cupboard doors, push strollers, etc.

For alone time at home we just make the best of the sleep periods we know are pretty solid. First sleep of the night, a few hours in the middle. I hear what you are saying about feeling like you are in survivial mode all the time. I feel like we're just emerging from that feeling and I hope you find something that works for you soon.

ETA: Dh and I talked about using someplace like a gym or YMCA that has onsite, drop-in care so that we could exercise together while Ds played nearby. Near us these places also often have small eating areas too so we wouldn't have to be working out all the time. We understood it might take some time to transition him into being comfortable there, but we thought it would be worth it for the $1-2/hr fee.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessBB* 
You could always do a babysitting swap or co-op. That's free and it helps your friends, too! I say beg, borrow or steal to get some alone time with dh. Three years is a LONG time to be dealing with these issues. Also, since your child is no longer an infant or toddler, it might be worthwhile to re-evaluate your parenting strategies somewhat.







: IMO, parenting is about balancing dc's needs with the rest of the family. It begins at 100% baby, 0% everything else (i.e. marriage, housework, etc) but I think it is fine to shift that equilibrium over time. Your three year old's needs are not the same as that of a newborn and it is ok to consider that in your response to him.









:


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

TudoBem, I can really really relate to much of what you wrote. DH is a WAHD to DS. He takes care of DS during the day and I take over at night.

We have ZERO family support.

And DS *continues* to be high needs at Age 4. If you have the time, you can read through some of my more recent posts of what I've been going through. He didn't start sleeping through until closer to Age 4. He's just 1 of those kids who don't require much sleep.

My sleep issue with him is how late he goes...withOUT a nap, 10pm...with a nap 11:30pm. If I attempted an earlier bedtime like a PP mentioned, he would scream SO loud the energy spent wouldn't be worth it.

It has been my experience, that no one really "gets it" what Parents of High Needs children go through and just isn't going to be able to relate at all.

But we are exhausted. Truly exhausted. This is one of the *many* reasons why DH and I have chosen to have 1 child. We've reached our limit.

The first year...I don't know how in the world we made it. Heck, the first 2 years!! And sleep deprivation??!! It was tough!

But the reality is DH and I need a couples break. We don't want to hire someone (on top of money spent for dinner and a movie). The last time we had date night and we hired out (My Mom...yes you read that right)...we spent over $200 bucks.

So, I'm thinking of doing a babysitting swap with good friends of ours who have 2 kids (ages 4 and 6)...they just live so far away.

Not much advice, I just wanted you to know I can relate relate to you...


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Some type of mother's helper. Use the next two weeks to find a homeschool girl, boy, grandmother, neighbor, church friend, babysitter, highschool, middle school girl, sister, aunt, mother, friend, LLL parent, someone to help a few hours a day, for several days a week to help entertain the little one.

Creating an on-site familiar resource _now_ will help immensely in the long run, even if you spend time just chatting with the mother's helper at times. The familiarity of the individual nurtures the potential "babysitter" or "playmate" for later too. Consider it an investment in a relationship, not just a quick fix.

After the mother's helper was with us for a few months, ds couldn't care less if I was around. He LOVES her to come to play....eventually, I was able to run a few errands while they played. Then she started to come on Sunday afternoon and dh and I had a date! But, no way could we do these things in the evening with our little guy. He needed *mama* to help settle at night. We choose to never leave him without his consent and we *do* get time for ourselves. It has required some accommodation to his evening/sleep needs, and some creativity to find the time during the day time hours.

HTH, Pat


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

*Tudobem*, the reason I suggested a co-op or the like is that it seems clear to me from the tenor of your posts that your current arrangement is not working for you or dh - in the sense that YOUR needs (which are 100% valid) are nowhere near being met. You need to figure out something, anything to give yourself a break and recharge. It might not be ideal and it might involve robbing Peter to pay Paul (or the babysitter, hee hee). One piece of advice I'd give is to look for time together during the day on the weekend or even on weekdays as evening is so, so hard for almost all kids. Use the sitter for a Sunday afternoon and get home by supper so nighttime routine is not disturbed.


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## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

We have a high needs crazyBaby too! And naturally, we both adore her. Chronically tired, stressed, etc., but we both take time in little ways to help out. It sounds silly, but it really makes us appreciate each other, I think. We always rally to help the one who needs it the most, which lately is me because the lack of sleep is really catching up with me.

We've been on one date every four months or so, so we try to have dates at home once in a while with a nice bottle of wine. We also try to do things that will allow dd to express her wild child while we're relaxed and happy. Lots of trips to parks, very little sit down meals in restaurants (unless they're fun, like Teppenyaki).

I don't know really ... we just try to incorporate our new life as best as we can so that our needs are met. We talk about things a lot ... so I guess that helps too.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brokensemaphore* 
Our situation is exactly like this. My husband thinks that being a daddy ends at 10pm and refuses to help me at night. He hasn't slept in the same room as me and our son in over 2 months. It takes a good 30-60 minutes of rocking, nursing, bouncing, etc. to get Ryan to sleep, and my husband huffs and puffs the whole time, then says something mean and goes to sleep on the couch.

Ryan is very high needs 24/7 and will hardly allow anyone to put him down. My husband has no patience with him whatsoever. One of our main sources of fighting is that he'll get pissed that Ryan's crying while I'm trying to comfort him, so he takes him and then gets frustrated after 10 seconds and gets nasty with the baby!! "Why won't you shut up," "don't you ever stop crying?" etc. Of course that pisses ME off and there's the cycle. Our marriage is in pieces over all of this.

I'm sorry I don't have any solutions, I just wanted to relate to your situation.

We were here too. we went to counselling but that only helpedget us talkingagain. What I've decided is thatif we're serious about thiswholemarriage thing, is that it's better for us to get all this nasty crud out in the open now, and deal with it, andope that we do much better wenever number two comeslong.


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## beachcomber (May 11, 2005)

Hugs to you in trying to find ways to deal with this. Sleep and high needs babes can be a real struggle.

Like another poster here, my daughter (23 months old) is pretty mellow during the day but she's difficult to settle at night. She wakes often, MUST nurse, regularly nurses on and off for HOURS at night and is physically very restless. She kicks, yells, etc. when she wakes at night. We cosleep so this wakes us both up. We did try not cosleeping and that was a total disaster. She WILL NOT sleep anywhere but with us. She reaches out in her sleep to make sure we're there. If she can't find us, she wakes up. We have to nap with her during the day, too. She just can't sleep alone.

While she's mellow during the day, she doesn't handle crowds, lots of stimulation, noise or change well at all. Babysitter is not an option for us. Thankfully we have my DH's mom on hand (she looks after my daughter 2 days a week already). But seriously, my girl will not take to others and frankly I'm not interested in putting her through the trauma of adjustment.

We're tired. You bet we are. We don't have much time to ourselves. Sex? Hah. Get serious. If we're very lucky we can connect on that level once a month. We have come to accept that at this point in our family life, our child takes precedence. We at least get to talk for 4 hours week when we commute in to work together. One day, we'll look back on this time when she was small and remember how hard it was. We'll revel in our ability to get through it. For now, we don't look up, we don't have expectations of a full night's sleep and we don't talk about the whole sleep situation with most of our friends and family. We're tired of the advice that simply can't be applied to our child and our situation. The thing that's worked best for us is changing our expectations and finally completely eradicating the myth of a good night's sleep for now. One day it will happen. WE don't even look forward to it. WE just live in the present for now.

Hope that helps.


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