# Requesting "no gifts" for children (FRIENDLY debate)



## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

I recently chatted with a friend who desired to request that their 2yo child get 'no gifts' at her birthday party. Her reasons were "oh, the house is cluttered already", "I want her to learn that gifts don't matter" "so many kids don't have enough, she needs to learn that she doesn't need any more" "I don't want her to become materialistic" to name a few.

Now, I understand all these reasons...but in my opinion she is taking away something that is important to her (any) child, and wonder if her reasons aren't a little selfish. It is not her childs fault that the house is cluttered....and as far as learning that gifts don't matter, I think that that is a natural lesson that we learn as we grow up and realize how important other aspects of the celebration are. I guess I think that depriving her child of the opportunity to have presents before allowing the pure enjoyment that comes from it will make her child want them even more, and maybe even become resentful.

I want to add that this same person gets in a tizzy if her dh forgets to give her something for their anniversary or Valentine's day, and buys stuff for herself on a whim. I think it is unfair for her to make this decision for her child, when she can't even adhere to it herself.

In our house, my dh and I have a no gift policy for eachother...but we do get gifts for our children. We do not go overboard by any means, but they still get excited when someone gives them a present. I love seeing them experience that enjoyment, and wouldn't feel right to deprive them of it.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I'll bite.









I think it's very American. Many other cultures (including ones that dh and I have lived in and grown up in) don't make a deal out of birthdays. I see a very real problem in American culture (I'm American, btw) with materialism. I commend your friend for teaching her children such values. While we celebrate dd's birthday, and we don't have a "no gifts" policy, we try to teach her about having too many things.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

double post


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Funny to see this topic when I just gave out dd's b-day party invites with "no gifts" written on them. Dd is a sensitive child. She gets very overwhelmed when gifts are involved. She does not enjoy opening lots of gifts. Gifts could very well ruin her party. We will get her a couple of things, and grandparents, aunts and uncles will send gifts. She'll open them over the course of a week. That way she'll be able to enjoy her birthday and not struggle with getting overwhelmed and frustrated. As far as I'm concerned, I'm following dd's lead with this one. It really has nothing to do with what _I_ want. Plus, some of the children we invited are from her co-op preschool class. The aren't close friends and I think it would be awkward to ask them to bring a gift. They have no idea what dd's interests are.

ETA: I definitely think that there are other times when "no gifts" is appropriate. If I was having a party and inviting 10-20 kids, I'd probably also request "no gifts". I think that would be way too many gifts for one child. I should add that I'm so anti-consumerism/materialism that I have major anxiety over this type of thing. My dd is definitely not deprived of gifts for birthdays and Christmas.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

I and my daughter have really enjoyed the 'no gifts' parties we've attended, and at none of them did the birthday child seem glum. Especially with younger kids that seems like a great way to go - it can be overwhelming, little guests get confused and upset about why one child is getting so much, and often it becomes the focal point of the party instead of the fun and games.

After all, its adults initially who initiate little kids into the wonderful world of birthday party = masses of presents - very often the kids would be excited just to have a party with all their friends, cake, games, etc.


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## ABand3 (May 21, 2005)

At the first "no-gifts" party I attended, about half the people brought gifts - making those of us who didn't feel awkward. Shortly after that my DS2 had his first bday, and we really didn't need anything - he had all the clothes, balls, blocks, trucks, etc. that a kid could want. So rather than say 'no gifts', we asked for books only, and that worked out really well. That way, people could enjoy shopping for him, he enjoyed opening a few (big brother handled the rest), and people who didn't want to spend a lot could just get one ~$5 book; grandparents who wanted to go overboard bought him several $12+ books. Worked well for everyone, and I'd do it that way again.


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## MomInFlux (Oct 23, 2003)

I'm about to host a "no-gift" birthday party for 5yo DS. He and I talked about it, and we decided together that having his friends come to the house for a party and playdate was gift enough. He knows that he'll be getting birthday gifts from his parents, and that's sufficient. He doesn't yet know that birthday party = loads of gifts, but he really wants his friends to come play. I think it's a workable solution. And yes, in the near future we'll have to have a talk about how his parties are different than his friends' parties, gift-wise, and that conversation will be about values and appreciating people over things, etc. (that conversation may happen sooner rather than later, as DS is at the toy store with DH right now buying a gift for a friend's birthday party







).


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

A friend of mine did this too, she had a double bday party for her ds who was going on 3 and her dd who was going to be 2. She asked that you bring a book that you loved as a child, or a new favorite.

Another thought is to a) ask child to go through old things to donate as she recieves new things or b) as ppl to bring donations for a local shelter.


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## morning glory (Dec 8, 2005)

It sounds like your issue with your friend's "no gift" policy is that she is extending it only to her child...its not a family policy and its certainly not a personal one. That would bother me too.

No gifts in general might work as a family policy but when dd sees mom getting presents for her birthday but knows she didn't get them what message is that sending? Gifts don't count or You don't count?

If it were my friend I would ask if she plans to forego gifts on her own special occaisons to send that same message to her daughter...after all its more what we do than what we say that our children learn from.

In general I could see doing a "no gift" party if it extended to all members of the family. I really like the idea of a book party (as suggested by a pp) or even a homemade gift exchange (for family...thats a bit much to ask of people just coming to a kids party).

Casey


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I really like the idea of a no gifts party for both children and adults. I think a party should be about people coming together to enjoy company, not for the gifts. Plus I hate the idea that some parents might not be able to afford a gift and therefore their child won't come, or that buying a gift would be a hardship for the family.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

For dd's fist party we asked "no gifts" on the invitation and a few people still brought one (mostly our elderly friends). Dd's second birthday was berry picking with her best friend, so we didnt mention the no gifts thing since it was just one friend and we knew the parents well enough to know they would get something simple.

And just because the parent requests that no gifts be given at the party doesnt mean the child will not recieve a gift for thier birthday.

We went to a 2 year old party a few months ago and dh and I left thinking wow, that was a lot of stuff that child got - and everything but our gift and the gift from the friend mentioned about involved some sort of siren and lights







(we gave the 2 year old wooden food and our friend gave him some sidewalk chalk).

I am planning for dd's birthday this year to have something similiar to the no gifts thing we did for her first birthday- she will be three and she is very keen to the birthday and gifts thing thanks to the parties we have gone to. She is already asking about her birthday party (her birthday is in JULY!







) I am thinking about asking for donations for our local womens shelter, or something along those lines - I figure I still have time to figure it out.







We will probably have her birthday party in the mid morning, take a nice nap and then have a family dinner and presents then. Thats my brilliant plan.


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## Lil'M (Oct 27, 2002)

For dd1's b-day a few years ago she had an art-themed party and to anyone who asked me for gift ideas I mentioned that art supplies were always appreciated. Because of the theme, that was what most gifts were anyway and we still have lots of the art supplies from that party. I also liked it because it didn't require spending a lot of money. Some people got elaborate kits and others brought sidewalk chalk.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Growing up, my parents never had birthday parties for me. I got one gift from my parents and $2 from my grandma. This wouldn't have been a big deal except most of my friends had parties and/or gifts and I felt just very left out and despondent. I can't even talk about this IRL because it actually upsets me greatly, to the point of tears.

When we receive invitations that say no gifts, we bring a very small gift anyway. I want my Dd to learn to give gifts, something small and meaningful. I don't think it's right to show up at a party empty handed. That's not normal in any culture.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I like no gift invites, most children get so many toys. We had a party for DD a couple weeks ago, we just invited one family, the older ds drew dd a picture, and then he picked out 2 of his books that he enjoyed and gave them to dd.







That picture is still hangin on our fridge, and at least once a day dd tells me that is her picture that her friend drew for her.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Last year, we did a "no gift" combined party for my 6 & 8 year olds. They had their entire classes. (my son has two class rooms of 26 kids) and my daughter's class was 32 kids)

I instructed on the invites that there were way too many kids, and if they wanted to bring a gift, could they bring their favorite book for the school's library?

I ended up being able to give our school's library over 75 books.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
When we receive invitations that say no gifts, we bring a very small gift anyway. I want my Dd to learn to give gifts, something small and meaningful.

Aren't you also teaching her to disrespect the host's wishes?


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srain*
Aren't you also teaching her to disrespect the host's wishes?

No, I'm the one disrespecting the host's wishes. She's 4 and doesn't know when it says no gifts. I've only been to 2 parties like that, and half the people brought gifts, anyway.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I love the no-gift rule, we will requests no gifts for all our birthday parties. Ds will of course still get a gift from us and from his grandparents.

I think it's great to keep the focus on the coming together of loved ones.

Also, I have single or childless friends who probably spend a lot of money every year on baby showers, weddings, etc. I want them to be happy to come celebrate ds' birthday with us without thinking "oh great, I have to buy another gift".


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

I love alternatives to huge pile of gifts at big birthday parties. I think it's especially hard for young kids to sit and watch the birthday child open present after present. When my children are older, it will be different, but for now, here are some of the ideas we've used:

1. Book exchange. Everyone brings a wrapped book. They all go in a sack/pillowcase. Children sit in a circle and dd gets to give each child a book. The kids loved it, and many at preschool began to adopt it for their parties.

2. Birthday book. Each child brings a drawing, photo, letter etc. for the birthday girl/boy. We take them to Kinkos to be laminated and hole punched and make a birthday book for the year.

3. Toys for tots. We haven't actually done this, but some people do put on the invitation that they're collecting toys for needy kids.

We especially needed an alternative because we invite the whole class to birthday parties right now (it's the only way to avoid hurt feelings) and it's been really fun. It would just be crazy to get that many presents.

Our kids are used to just family presents on birthdays. The book exchange is great because the birthday child gets one too, and we don't give goodie bags (don't like candy in goodie bags, but that's another thread)!


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

We are having a party for my DD (turning 2 at the end of the month) where we requested no gifts. At this age my DD doesn't understand about gifts - she was totally overwhelmed by Christmas and we ended up opening things over the next two weeks. She's really not old enough to feel deprived at this stage.

Additionally it's a 90 minute party at Gymboree and there's too much activity between tumbling/ climbing/ jumping with 17 toddlers and cake and ice cream eating to try to fit gift opening in too.

Incidentally we did a quiet home party with a bunch of friends and family for her 1st birthday where I also requested no gifts. Many people brought gifts anyway, so it was tough to know what to do (open them at the party? make the other people feel stupid who followed our wishes? or risk making the gift-givers feel overlooked b/c their gifts weren't opened in front of them?) We ended up opening them later and sending nice thank you notes after the fact but I felt very awkward about it.


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## newtonscricket (Jun 15, 2005)

Just because she has a "no gifts" party doesn't mean the kid doesn't get any gifts for her birthday. I do "no gifts" parties because my kids get wheelbarrowfulls from their grandparents.

And geez, the kid is TWO. She does not care. Maybe when she's 6 and been to tons of parties, she'll have an opinion on the topic, but it can't possibly matter to her now. I explained to my son for his last birthday party why we were having "no gifts" (because he would be getting gifts, from us an his grandparents, just not at the party) and he was cool with it. If he ever insists, we'll leave "no gifts" off the invitations I suppose.


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## Mylittlevowels (Feb 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Doodlebugsmom*
Funny to see this topic when I just gave out dd's b-day party invites with "no gifts" written on them. Dd is a sensitive child. She gets very overwhelmed when gifts are involved. She does not enjoy opening lots of gifts. Gifts could very well ruin her party. We will get her a couple of things, and grandparents, aunts and uncles will send gifts. She'll open them over the course of a week. That way she'll be able to enjoy her birthday and not struggle with getting overwhelmed and frustrated.









: My dd is the same way, she gets very overwhelmed by all the gifts and refuses to open. I'm going to steal your idea, thanks!


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

As a single mom just starting the birthday party circuit I have to say that the thought of feeling obligated to buy a gift for every kid in a preschool class does not thrill me. I usually give homemade gifts or books. For my own kid, I have just had a couple of pot-luck parties for things like the first day of spring & stuff like that rather than birthday parties--people can still bring something, but for the whole group. And honestly, I am pretty picky about what my son plays with, and I am very not interested in a bunch of plastic or electronic stuff--would rather just skip it. Would rather just enjoy everyone's company.

Also, the 'tradition' of opening everything up in front of the group I find pretty obnoxious, and not something anyone really enjoys, I don't think! so it's nice to skip that too.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
Also, the 'tradition' of opening everything up in front of the group I find pretty obnoxious, and not something anyone really enjoys, I don't think! so it's nice to skip that too.

Wow, I have seen this mentioned in many posts.

Where I live NO ONE, ever opens gifts at a kids party anymore. Its just "not done." The gifts are stacked and removed from the room quickly and thank you notes are sent later.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
I don't think it's right to show up at a party empty handed. That's not normal in any culture.

And what other cultures are you familiar with? My Armenian husband who was raised in Turkey, the two of us having lived in about half a dozen countries between the two of us have WITNESSED it. As a matter of fact, in a few of those countries, it is customary that the birthday person throw a party FOR HIS/HER FRIENDS instead.

If it says "no gifts", there is a reason and doing otherwise is being disrespectful. I don't care if you are the ONLY one not bringing a gift. It shows that you care enough to respect their wishes.

ETA: I'm not trying to be snarky. This is afterall, supposed to be a friendly debate. I'm just saying that, yeah, it is customary in some countries to gather together to celebrate without material items being exchanged.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Here in Norway (and in the other Scandinavian countries) it is normal to bring gifts to birthdayparties. In Norway children often invite their whole class, or atleast all the kids of the same gender. And everyone brings gifts.

It can be very overwhelming and quite caotic...

To me, a no gift rule is not an aption. I would feel that I was depriving my son of something. But, I have nothing but respect for the families that make this work for both parent and child!









Noah will be 5 years old in May. So far he has never had anyone but his family invited to his parties.And they bring gifts. But since it is just his grandparents and his uncles/aunts with kids, it doesn`t get too overwhelming.
But I am sure this will change once he starts school at age 6. It is very much seen as the norm to invite the whole class. I don`t know what to do about that yet, but I really want to avoid him getting 30 toys for his birthday.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boobybunny*
I instructed on the invites that there were way too many kids, and if they wanted to bring a gift, could they bring their favorite book for the school's library?

I ended up being able to give our school's library over 75 books.

That is an AWESOME idea!!!!!!! Good for you!


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

I love the no gift parties. We'll be doing that with DS whenever he requests a party - he's 5.5 now and hasn't yet.

A friend of mine throws no gift parties and if anyone brings a gift it goes into the closet before anyone sees it and then it gets donated to a local shelter. I agree that it's pretty disrespectful to not abide by the wishes of the host. What if the host had an objection to alcohol being served at her house - would you still show up with a bottle of wine because that is the norm with most gatherings?

A gift party or a no gift party, it's important to follow the wishes of your host.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

We tried a no gift party for dd's 2nd bday and everyone brought them anyways. I was quite annoyed. I am afraid that we are just going to have to have no party this year. Our parties are mostly adult (non-family) and we are talking 30-50 people. The mountain of gifts was so high and there were many many duplicates and non-age appropriate gifts. I felt bad for the few people that respected our wishes. i thought about having a party and saying "No gifts please. I you feel you must bring one, please mark it with the age and gender so that it can be donated to toys for tots." But I am afraid that it will offend the offenders from last year as they will know why I had to put that clause in. Dd is the only grandchild/niece on both sides and got 44 gifts from family alone. Added to the mountain from her party, she had about 80 gifts to open. It was ridiculous. It took DAYS to open them all. The garbage from wrapping paper and packaging was embarrassing. The Goodwill pile was embarrassing. Dd hated presents by the end. If people say "no gifts" there is a reason and I think it should be respected no matter what culture you are from. Create a nice handmade card if you cannot bring yourself to come empty-handed.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
And what other cultures are you familiar with? My Armenian husband who was raised in Turkey, the two of us having lived in about half a dozen countries between the two of us have WITNESSED it. As a matter of fact, in a few of those countries, it is customary that the birthday person throw a party FOR HIS/HER FRIENDS instead.

This surprises me, considering that, at the birthdays I attended in Ankara and Izmar, guests brought a dish to share or a bottle of something to drink. I'm not sure if everyone did, but it sure seemed like people were not arriving empty handed. I shouldn't have said in any culture. I know better than that having traveled extensively, what I should have said is that it's the norm to bring something to the host of a party and that's what we're going to do.

If people want to change the American tradition of gift giving at birthdays, they have a right to indicate that on their invitation. However, I'm teaching my Dd not to show up at someone's house emptyhanded. That is important to me in my parenting and it's not up to the host to tell me how to parent my child.

There are other things I ignore on invitations, too. I bring my Dd to all weddings, regardless of whether her name is on the invitation. I find it disrespectful of the couple to invite only some members of the family and leave others completely out. I find that rude, so I'm okay with being rude in return.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*

Where I live NO ONE, ever opens gifts at a kids party anymore. Its just "not done." The gifts are stacked and removed from the room quickly and thank you notes are sent later.


I've seen this before, but IMHO, it is rude not to open gifts together as a group. How else can you thank the giver in person? I don't get it. And I think the kids enjoy seeing what the birthday girl/boy received...isn't it part of the fun?


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*

There are other things I ignore on invitations, too. I bring my Dd to all weddings, regardless of whether her name is on the invitation. I find it disrespectful of the couple to invite only some members of the family and leave others completely out. I find that rude, so I'm okay with being rude in return.


This is totally off topic, but umm....you could just decline the invitation. It is not customary (as far as I am aware) to bring children to adult functions unless they are specifically invited. And especially at weddings at reception halls where the couple has to pay per guest...I'm confused about your logic here...


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## beansavi (Jun 26, 2005)

At my son's fifth b-day we requested no store bought gifts, just ones that had been made by the child OR an object found in nature. We got the most lovely things and that was five years ago, and I still remember them and have them around! How often can we say _that_?

We received lovely painted rocks, a popsicle stick frame, drawings by his friends, a painted coffee can to use for storage, lovely stuff! The kids expressed themselves so well and more than I had seen, professing their love and friendship on the gifts with paint or writing with a marker. It was very nice in the end.

Another part was that we made it a potluck and opened our house indefinitely so the parents could chat and rest, and the kids could run wild all afternoon and night. We had a campfire and by the time everyone went home, the kids were very snuggly and sleepy.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cgmom*
This is totally off topic, but umm....you could just decline the invitation. It is not customary (as far as I am aware) to bring children to adult functions unless they are specifically invited. And especially at weddings where oftentimes the couple has to pay for person coming...I'm confused about your logic here...

When did weddings become an adult function? For thousands of years, they've been a family function. They are the joining of two people into a family; I find it odd that people want to exclude family members from a family joining.

In the case I'm talking about, the couple would have been more offended if I didn't show up, me being the wife of their favorite uncle. We showed up, the baby nursed through the entire ceremony, and 3 years later my new neice told me that I had a huge impact on her decision to nurse. She said she could see me in the front row nursing the baby and thought it was awe inspiring. I'm lucky that way, people (IRL) tend to like my eccentricities and indulge them. I suppose if people really became offended by me, I'd be hesitant to continue.


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## MomInFlux (Oct 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
If people want to change the American tradition of gift giving at birthdays, they have a right to indicate that on their invitation. However, I'm teaching my Dd not to show up at someone's house emptyhanded. That is important to me in my parenting and it's not up to the host to tell me how to parent my child.

There are other things I ignore on invitations, too. I bring my Dd to all weddings, regardless of whether her name is on the invitation. I find it disrespectful of the couple to invite only some members of the family and leave others completely out. I find that rude, so I'm okay with being rude in return.

But you're OK with teaching your daughter to disrespect the wishes of the host(ess)? I'm totally not getting this POV.

Back OT: I'm so loving the variety of no-gift party ideas. I'm comfortable with our no-gift party plan for this year, but I think I'll find a way to incorporate the book exchange and/or child-made gifts in future years


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomInFlux*
But you're OK with teaching your daughter to disrespect the wishes of the host(ess)? I'm totally not getting this POV.

How am I teaching her this when 1) she doesn't know the wishes of the host, and therefore just assumes this is what is expected. 2) she can look around her and see that half the kids brought a gift, anyway.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
When did weddings become an adult function? For thousands of years, they've been a family function. They are the joining of two people into a family; I find it odd that people want to exclude family members from a family joining.

In the case I'm talking about, the couple would have been more offended if I didn't show up, me being the wife of their favorite uncle. We showed up, the baby nursed through the entire ceremony, and 3 years later my new neice told me that I had a huge impact on her decision to nurse. She said she could see me in the front row nursing the baby and thought it was awe inspiring. I'm lucky that way, people (IRL) tend to like my eccentricities and indulge them. I suppose if people really became offended by me, I'd be hesitant to continue.

Thank you for the clarification - I was confused







, but I can see where in this particular instance it makes sense. But it seemed from your original post that you are offended if you receive an invitation without it being inclusive of your children.

As far as "when did wedding become adult functions", I would say that it is up to the _person hosting the event in question_ who they invite and that if they want it to be an adult function, that is their choice.

My point is that if I receive an invitation and my children are not welcome, I would probably decline the invitation and explain my reasons for doing so, I wouldn't just show up with them.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cgmom*
My point is that if I receive an invitation and my children are not welcome, I would probably decline the invitation and explain my reasons for doing so, I wouldn't just show up with them.

I think that's an excellent way to handle it, actually.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Suzetta*
Now, I understand all these reasons...but in my opinion she is taking away something that is important to her (any) child

The only thing she is taking away is a cultural expectation. It's only important to a child if the child is taught it's important.

Namaste!


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

I think that if a host specifically requests no gifts and you bring a gift anyway, it's because you're more interested in pleasing yourself than in respecting the host. You are an invited guest at this person's party. If you aren't willing to respect the host's parameters, don't attend the party. If you feel that parties MUST have gifts, host your own party!









Namaste!


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

We did no gifts for DS birthday this year. He was 2 and it was only three weeks after Christmas. _We_ didn't get him a birthday gift, but we can get away with it this year, kwim? Of course he did get some gifts anyway. I didn't complain, I just figured that my dad was being honest when he said that they bought them before i said "no birthday gifts"

I won't be doing no gifts when he's turn 6 probably. But I love the idea above of theme's, like art supplies or bokks.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Wow...lots of responses.







I always like coming to this website, because folks put so much thought into parenting. Some of you came up with some great alternatives and discussion.

Again, I wasn't troubled by the idea of not making a big issue of gifts, of all people I really don't like to see the piles of toys getting bigger- I also don't like to be constantly invited to places where a gift is expected...the expense really adds up...I think it was more the duplicity of doing this to her child, but still valuing her getting gifts.

I like some of the alternative solutions, especially for the parties as they start having classmates and stuff. I totally think that not expecting gifts from a roomful of children is totally appropriate. I wasn't even considering that angle.









Thanks!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
I think that if a host specifically requests no gifts and you bring a gift anyway, it's because you're more interested in pleasing yourself than in respecting the host. You are an invited guest at this person's party. If you aren't willing to respect the host's parameters, don't attend the party. If you feel that parties MUST have gifts, host your own party!









Namaste!

I am more interested in pleasing myself, just as the host was more interested in pleasing herself. I'm bad that way.


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## midstreammama (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
I want my Dd to learn to give gifts, something small and meaningful. I don't think it's right to show up at a party empty handed.











This really grabbed at me. I agree wholeheartedly.
I don't think gift giving should be about who gives the biggest gift or the best but, something small or that will be useful to the person receiving. Whe dds have their birthday parties, while we don't do no gift parties, I make sure that people Know what we want. Nothing forceful, I have never had an RSVPer who didn't ask what to get. Most of the people that didn't ask knew dds well enough to know what they would really like. Arts and crafts things are a big thing around party time here.

I really think it's all about how you go about getting and giving the gift, not about how big or flashy it is.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midstreammama*









This really grabbed at me. I agree wholeheartedly.
I don't think gift giving should be about who gives the biggest gift or the best but, something small or that will be useful to the person receiving. Whe dds have their birthday parties, while we don't do no gift parties, I make sure that people Know what we want. Nothing forceful, I have never had an RSVPer who didn't ask what to get. Most of the people that didn't ask knew dds well enough to know what they would really like. Arts and crafts things are a big thing around party time here.

I really think it's all about how you go about getting and giving the gift, not about how big or flashy it is.

The bottom line is that you do NOT know the REASON people request "No gifts". It could be religious reasons, cultural reasons, simple preferences, or another belief that you're not aware of. Would you feed a Muslim child pork just because YOU wanted to? I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but this absolute disrespect of people's wishes is what teaches children to disrespect boudaries.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
The bottom line is that you do NOT know the REASON people request "No gifts". It could be religious reasons, cultural reasons, simple preferences, or another belief that you're not aware of. Would you feed a Muslim child pork just because YOU wanted to? I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but this absolute disrespect of people's wishes is what teaches children to disrespect boudaries.


I agree completely!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
The bottom line is that you do NOT know the REASON people request "No gifts". It could be religious reasons, cultural reasons, simple preferences, or another belief that you're not aware of. Would you feed a Muslim child pork just because YOU wanted to? I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but this absolute disrespect of people's wishes is what teaches children to disrespect boudaries.

I know these people extremely well. They're kids have been in my Dd's playgroup and babysitting co-op for 3 years. I know for a fact that there were no cultural or religious reasons for this request. And, as I said, about half the guests brought gifts, so I'm not alone in this.

I am reminded of an episode of _Curb Your Enthusiasm_ where Larry David arrives at a birthday party without a gift because the invitation said, "No Gifts, Please." Larry is given a very hard time by people for not bringing a gift because "everyone knows no one means it when they say, 'no gift.'" Of course, like everything else on that show, it was an exaggeration, but it's true that people often don't mean it.

My Dh just reminded me that when we threw a party for my in-law's 75th birthdays (which are just days apart), the invitation indicated not to bring a gift. A lot of people brought a gift anyway. No one was offended by receiving a gift.


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## emdeecee_sierra (Oct 16, 2005)

The "no gifts" parties I've attended have all been gift parties because everyone brings a gift, anyway. For me personally, it creates a dilemma because I'm not sure if I should adhere to the 'no gifts' request and risk the great potential of being the only person empty-handed, or just get a gift and not have to deal with looking like a cheap-skate.

As far as the OP, I suppose the child being all of 2 years old means she probably won't remember the party or gifts or lack thereof, anyway. If the mom doesn't want the child to have gifts, then why have a party? Maybe just have a family bbq or picnic with or without guests, not announcing that the get-together is to be in DC's honor? A fun evening at the go-carts or miniature golf is going to be more lasting in any child's memory than all the obnoxiously loud, plastic toys in the world.

Will the lack of gifts scar the child. Somehow I doubt it. I'll bet there were plenty of perfectly productive people over the millenia who didn't get mountains of gifts for every bday.

My family deals with a situation of over-gifting by one relative. DH and I deal with this by simply acting as "gift filters". The relative is out of town and thus mails the gifts, making it a simple task for us to simply not have DC open them all (extras are hidden away and end up being donated). Even if opened, toys can be made to disappear (given away). And as the DC get older, discussions and rules such as "One toy has to leave (given away) in order to make room for one new toy." Teaches decluttering and lets DC explore which material treasures are truly important to them.


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## JeanneG (Jan 2, 2006)

Hey everyone- I'm new to MDC and am so glad to have found like-minded parents to chat with.









We also do the no-gift birthday parties. Instead of simply saying no gifts we ask that everyone bring a new, wrapped book for a book exchange. As the children leave at the end of the party they choose one to open later at home. This has worked out well and other parents have loved it. It works for those who ignore the no gifts request who feel they *need* to bring something, everyone gets to take something home, and DS is not overwhelmed with presents. He already gets enough from my and DH's parents without adding a whole party-full of stuff.

We are working to teach him about the materialism in our society and try to make holidays and get-togethers more about family and friends enjoying each other than about the presents. He was more excited last month about celebrating the solstice with luminarios and a house full of candles than he was about Christmas.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sierratahoe*
And as the DC get older, discussions and rules such as "One toy has to leave (given away) in order to make room for one new toy." Teaches decluttering and lets DC explore which material treasures are truly important to them.

You may be the exception, but I have yet to meet ONE person who makes their kids do this but then also holds themselves to it. And I don't just mean presents either -- if this is the policy for the kids, then every time the parents buy anything for *themselves* they should have to give up one of their own posessions. Plus the two people I know in real life whose folks made them do this are now packrats who dislike getting rid of anything at all, especially if someone else suggests it, hence my wondering whether it really works.

Back on topic: I thought "no gifts" was a gentle demur that no gifts are *expected* -- it never occurred to me that it was an order, and that gift-givers would have their backs shredded behind them. Do people really have so many rules about what you are allowed to do and not do at a party, for crying in the night? I'm with Ruby on this one -- and I would never have dreamed that teaching my child to show appreciation for hospitality would be ripped up as "disrespecting the host's wishes." Wow.

I agree with Suzette about the original question too -- it's not the baby's fault that the house is a mess. Clean up your own stuff and get out of the way of other people loving your child, woman!

(That said, I am so excited by the book-exchange and handmade/nature party ideas . . . )


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I haven't read all the posts, and I read the OP a couple days ago, so I don't remember the details.

If I were invited to a "no gifts" party for a baby or very small child, it would probably be a relative. I wouldn't feel right showing up without a gift. I think I'd *probably* ask the parent if they'd be okay with a donation to charity, money for a bank account/trust or a memorabilia type of gift. All of my children, and all my nieces and nephews, got a Canadian coin set minted in their birth year for their first Christmas...they don't care about a toy or clothes or whatever, and I like to give something a bit different that year.

If I were invited to a "no gifts" party for a slightly older child, I'm honestly not sure how I'd handle it. I don't feel right showing up with nothing.

In general, I tend to think of "no gifts" as a suggestion. But, I'll try to keep in mind that some people are a lot more serious about it.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

My kids have been to several "no gifts" parties (most of them kids in the homeschool group). My kids have colored pictures for the birthday child. So, they have "shown their appreciation for hospitality" while still managing to respect the host's decisions about HER OWN PARTY.

I think that parties ARE the celebration of the birthday, NOT the gifts.

Namaste!


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

dharmamama - you rock. Thank you for saying everything I wanted to say before I got to it. Let's be friends.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Aw, shucks.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
My kids have been to several "no gifts" parties (most of them kids in the homeschool group). My kids have colored pictures for the birthday child. So, they have "shown their appreciation for hospitality" while still managing to respect the host's decisions about HER OWN PARTY.

I think that parties ARE the celebration of the birthday, NOT the gifts.

Namaste!

I completely agree. I think it is important to respect the host's wishes, and a handmade picture is the perfect way to show the birthday child that he/she is important and special while still honoring the "no gifts" request.

I'm getting some great ideas for DD's 5th birthday party from all of you great mamas. Thanks!


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

If someone feels they cannot show up at someone's house empty-handed, won't a handmade card or a flower be okay? It doesn't have to be a wrapped up birthday present.
I always like to show up with a "hostess gift" also, but sometimes it's just a clipping of my favorite plant or some herbs from my garden.
I am invited to a no-gift party, but I had already purchased a gift for the baby while I was Christmas shopping. I am going to give it to her on a separate occasion.
Ds's first birthday was a no-gift party. We stated if they wanted to bring something for the b-day boy, we were doing a time capsule to be opened on his 18th birthday. People had a lot of fun with that, and brought stuff from around their house. (There's even a sex manual







)

Next year I think we will do a food or toy drive.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

All in all it seems silly to me that we think the lack of a slew of gifts is deprivation. If you look at the world around us, it is obviously an abundance and not a deprivation. If you MUST give something, take the money you would have spent- donate to a childrens charity [i personally love the ones that provide for an education for a child who otherwise wouldn't get one] and give it to them in a card. She can learn that her not getting a gift that year enabled another child across the earth to go to school that year. What a valuable gift that would be.

In our house gift giving is NOT the norm. My oldest requested doing gifts on birthdays, and we talked about what she wanted to do and with her guidance we started a habit of on their birthday they buy or make each member of the family one thing that means a lot. We don't go to the store, we sit down with a paper and pen and talk about what they want to get each person so they buy from the heart instead of whatever is best marketted at the store. They are learning the gift of giving and they are delighted to do this, and to watch everyone open their gift. The family also buys the birthday person just ONE gift. I use the term buy, but we make a lot more than we buy. And our family is welcome to send gifts, but not in a slew on one day of the year.

And it might sound horrible, but if you do the math that means that we each get birthday gifts 5 times a year instead of once. And honestly, I liked the giftless birthdays- but now that my kids are older we compromise to meet their wishes.

Anyway, that aside... in my mama group it has always been the norm that we do not bring gifts to birthday parties. You can celebrate without gifts. And if that is what kids know... I mean, where is the harm/ We figure that way nobody doesn't come because of the lack of funds, no other kids feel slighted to see all these gifts and toys that they can't play with. It is just easier and we have a ball anyway. Sometimes a child will bring adn give a toy of their own to the birthday child, but only if they are so motivated.

I was reading in a magazine the other day of a photographer who gave a little nomadic girl a picture of herself, which to her was a truly great gift. Something most of our children will take for granted. It is all relative.

Maybe your friend realizes she has to strong of a need to buy and acquire and wants to work on that while teaching her daughter differently. And even if it is just something she is goig to do while she can get away with it... oh well, the baby is 2.. she really won't care or ask ''where are my presents''


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

oh, I forgot... when we were moving a little boy in our playgroup brought my oldest some flowers he picked to her weaning party [no gift party] and she still, over a year later, talks about her beautiful red flowers from William. They meant a lot to her, even though they weren't wrapped in a shiny box with bold lettering. I would thinking bringing some flowers or her favorite fruit would be just as special.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

Along the lines of the no gift parties - is there also an expectation that the children attending the party will leave wih a "goody bag"?

A few months ago we went to two parties where dd was given a bag of cheap plastic stuff when we left. One party had a Disney "princess" theme and dd got a bag of pink plastic toys







:

So it turns into saying "thank you" is not enough. Ugh. I want her to go to the parties she is invited to, but its getting a bit overwhelming.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
I know these people extremely well.

If you know them extremely well, then you can give your gift at another time so that others who are respecting their request aren't made to feel bad.

If you don't know them well, then, again, you don't know why they are making the request and should respect their decision.

I guess for some people, one must write on the invitation "No gifts, please. We really mean this. We aren't expecting or WANTING you to bring a gift. We have our reasons. Please respect this." to get the point across.

And finally, if gifts are truly "optional", one can write on the invitation, "Gifts are not expected, but appreciated if you choose to bring one".

I agree that hospitality gifts are nice... but there is no written invitation and no request to NOT bring something. I'm talking about written invitations to birthday parties.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetest*
Along the lines of the no gift parties - is there also an expectation that the children attending the party will leave wih a "goody bag"?

A few years ago I had a pool party for my son - I spent a ton of money on the place for the party which gave us a couple hours in this awesome wave pool, plus a really nice lunch and a wonderful cake and in the end I had a couple kids complaining because we didn't have any "goody bags". One of the kids even complained to his mother when she got there and she said to him, "Oh I'm sorry honey, maybe we can buy you something on the way home." These kids were 10 years old - I really don't think they needed goody bags.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

wow.


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## Lizzo (Jul 26, 2005)

This is interesting b/c with my first baby's first birthday quickly approaching I am trying figure out ways to do this party thing.
When my sister and I were growing up, we got everything we wanted and I think that made us disapointed in what we got, always feeling there should be more. It was not good. We never threw fits or tantrums over it, but it was not a good feeling. Plus, we ended yp not using 1/2 the stuff anyway.
So I want my kiddos to be excited about birthdays and holdiays for reasons besides gifts and/or to get a couple gifts and feel really satisfied. I want to live very simply and to realize that the little we recieve is so very special.
So, I've decided on putting on the invitations "Please do not feel obliged to get a gift, your presence is gift enough!".
I think I like the idea of when he gets somethign new, we'll find something he loves, but doesn't playw ith or doesn't love and doesn't play with and give it to a charity.
I feel giving too many gifts is way worse than no gifts! Hoever I do understand loving to give b/c I do, it rewarding and I want my son to know how wonderful it feels to pick out something special with a special person in mind and imagine how good they'll feel, but I think it's important to know that special things can be done any time you want a person to feel special, not just on a cetain day.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

You know, another reason we requested no gifts at dd's last bday was that some of our friends are very very very strapped for time and money. These are people that are working two jobs to meet the very basic of needs. Having them able to come to dd's party was seriously gift enough. They do not have money to spend on my kid and they do not have time to be creative. The last thing I wanted was for them to see all of the expensive and excessive gifts dd got from people who did not listen to me. I am sure it made them feel bad. And that makes me feel bad because dd was elated to have people there. She loves these people and enjoyed their company. There are reasons that people request no gifts. Whether you think you know the reason or not is not the issue. You are invited to be a guest at someone's house, the very least you can do is honor the very simple request to not bring a gift....regardless of reason. Ironically, it was typically the people that know us/dd the least that ignored our request. They also felt it was OK to give the gifts directly to dd as they came into the yard (outdoor party) so that I could not even put them away to open later. Very very rude. I understand that it really is between the giver and dd. If soemone wants to give her a gift, it ultimately is dd's decision whether or not to accept it. But if you know that the hosts do not want gifts, at the very least be discreet so that the people that were kind enough to follow directions don't have to feel bad. Better yet, give the gift some other time.


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## gentlebirthmothr (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
I really like the idea of a no gifts party for both children and adults. I think a party should be about people coming together to enjoy company, not for the gifts. Plus I hate the idea that some parents might not be able to afford a gift and therefore their child won't come, or that buying a gift would be a hardship for the family.

Kitty,

Same here and also it should apply for Christmas/other occasions that gifts are usually involve as well.

Thank you.


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sweetest*
Along the lines of the no gift parties - is there also an expectation that the children attending the party will leave wih a "goody bag"?

A few months ago we went to two parties where dd was given a bag of cheap plastic stuff when we left. One party had a Disney "princess" theme and dd got a bag of pink plastic toys







:

So it turns into saying "thank you" is not enough. Ugh. I want her to go to the parties she is invited to, but its getting a bit overwhelming.


While I completely agree that it gets overwhelming, for me it has been a tremendous lesson in _letting go_ of things I can't control as DD has gone to more and more parties.

Most moms I know have very different values than I do. While I have been fortunate to become friends with some likeminded mamas, most see nothing wrong with the bag of plastic toys for a goodybag. Most mamas do the Disney Princess and Power Ranger birthday parties, and most expect that a gift will be brought, purchased at Walmart or Toys r us.

Is this what I want for my children or what we do in my home? Generally speaking, no. However, I can't control what other families do and I refuse to judge them for it. What I _will_ do is decide if DD and/or DS will have a friendship with the child in question.

I don't think it is going to harm my child to go to a party where the birthday child receives lots of gifts and gives out goody bags with plastic toys any more than that child will be harmed by going to a party without those things. Different strokes for different folks.

In fact, I think my DD has learned more about what is important from seeing how different families do things.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

This has been an interesting and thought provoking thread for me. I am an older mom and I can't imagine not bringing a gift to a party. I try to bring something useful, like books or clothes or art supplies. I'm not into the junk or plastic, so I try not to buy it. Luckily, I haven't been invited to a "no gifts" party. I honestly don't know what I would do. It is so ingrained in me to bring a gift, it would be hard to change. I also love giving, especially the simple things. However, something in your post disturbed me. That busy people don't have the time to buy something or even make anything. Isn't that kind of sad that life has become this? I hope I am not too busy (even making ends meet) that I can't be a thoughtful and generous person to a friend or friend of my children. A bouquet of hand picked flowers or a used book, or even a hand drawn card and a few thoughtful words don't cost much in money or time.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *primjillie*
This has been an interesting and thought provoking thread for me. I am an older mom and I can't imagine not bringing a gift to a party. I try to bring something useful, like books or clothes or art supplies. I'm not into the junk or plastic, so I try not to buy it. Luckily, I haven't been invited to a "no gifts" party. I honestly don't know what I would do. It is so ingrained in me to bring a gift, it would be hard to change. I also love giving, especially the simple things. However, something in your post disturbed me. That busy people don't have the time to buy something or even make anything. Isn't that kind of sad that life has become this? I hope I am not too busy (even making ends meet) that I can't be a thoughtful and generous person to a friend or friend of my children. A bouquet of hand picked flowers or a used book, or even a hand drawn card and a few thoughtful words don't cost much in money or time.

I agree that it is sad. But it is reality. I would rather they spend the time and money on their own kids who don't even get birthday parties.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
If you know them extremely well, then you can give your gift at another time so that others who are respecting their request aren't made to feel bad.

As I've said, I will not arrive at a party empty-handed. About half the people who came felt the same way as me, and, as far as I can tell, no one felt bad either way.

This is how it basically went both times:
We arrive at the party.
Hugs all around, happy greetings and smiles and kids jumping up and down.
My Dd hands the friendship bracelet (unwrapped) she herself made to her friend and says "Happy Birthday."
They run off to play.

Everyone was happy, except for maybe some people here, and none of you have to worry because I'm sure you won't be inviting us to your next "No Gifts, Please" party.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoopervegan*
You know, another reason we requested no gifts at dd's last bday was that some of our friends are very very very strapped for time and money. These are people that are working two jobs to meet the very basic of needs. Having them able to come to dd's party was seriously gift enough. They do not have money to spend on my kid and they do not have time to be creative. The last thing I wanted was for them to see all of the expensive and excessive gifts dd got from people who did not listen to me. I am sure it made them feel bad.

That would be us. My Dh's business went under more than 2 years ago and we are really, really struggling. That doesn't mean we cannot give a small, meaningful gift made by my Dd from an enormous bead set she was given for her 3rd birthday. The bracelet costs a few cents, but was priceless in terms of her friendship with this child. Just because we are extremely strapped for cash doesn't mean that we can be denied the chance to give to a friend something from the heart.

As for being angry with the people who brought gifts to your party and handed them directly to the child. Well, maybe those people didn't read the invitation carefully.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I have zero problem with someone bringing a friendship bracelet, fist of flowers, or a nice drawing. I have a problem with someone showing up with a $50 flashy, exciting gift and insisting that she open it in front of the entire crowd. Dd got a friendship bracelet from her 10 yo friend. It is still on her ankle 6 months later. It was given to her privately, out of the fray. It was not meant to be "showy". It was a private moment between her and her friend. The 10 yo came to me as soon as she got there and said she had made a small token for dd and asked what would be the best way to give it to dd. That is not what I mean about people ignoring "no gift please" rules.

Funny as I am hosting a bday party tonight


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoopervegan*
I have zero problem with someone bringing a friendship bracelet, fist of flowers, or a nice drawing. I have a problem with someone showing up with a $50 flashy, exciting gift and insisting that she open it in front of the entire crowd. Dd got a friendship bracelet from her 10 yo friend. It is still on her ankle 6 months later. It was given to her privately, out of the fray. It was not meant to be "showy". It was a private moment between her and her friend. The 10 yo came to me as soon as she got there and said she had made a small token for dd and asked what would be the best way to give it to dd. That is not what I mean about people ignoring "no gift please" rules.

Wow, after all that, I find out I wasn't ignoring the "No gifts, please" rule afterall. Since becoming a parent, I've never been to a children's party where friends were giving friends $50 gifts! So far, all the parties I've been to have involved $5-20 gifts, with under 10 being the norm. Also, because of the way parents are around here, myself included, all the gifts are very low tech: wooden puzzle, books, jump rope, scarf & mittens.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Originally Posted by velochic:
If you know them extremely well, then you can give your gift at another time so that others who are respecting their request aren't made to feel bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyWild*
As I've said, I will not arrive at a party empty-handed.

I'm sorry, but the feeling I get from this is that giving the gift is more about you knowing that OTHERS know you gave the gift rather than the true sentiment. If it's really about the giving of a gift out of an act of love, then you are close enough that giving it at THE PARTY isn't an issue. As a pp said, the private moment seems more appropriate. If a friend tells me "no gifts" at a party, I'd ask about giving something in private. It makes it "worth" more that way, and I'm respecting her wishes.

I

JUST

DON'T

GET

IT!!

"No gifts" is not ambiguous. There is no wiggle room here. This is the same kind of defense rapists put forth... "Yeah, she said, 'No", but I KNOW she meant 'Yes'!!".


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic*
I

JUST

DON'T

GET

IT!!


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Here's a quote by Miss Manners on the No Gifts thing I found on another site. It seems that requesting "no gifts" is considered rude.
---
Miss Manners said this to a couple who wanted to wanted to direct gifts to charity or write "no gifts please":

"... there is no tasteful way -- not even any moderately decent way -- of directing present giving when you are on the receiving end. Contrary to general belief, present givign is never required. ... You must pretend that you invite people because you want to celebrate important occasions with them, and you must seem pleasantly surprised when they give you something. To act as if it is such standard payment that you can acknowledge your expectations is rude-rude-rude."

and elsewhere she wrote:

"Any suggestions from you, unless specifically requested by an individual guest, are improper. This includes a ban on stating 'No gifts' because, although less greedy than the attempt to pick one's own present, this also assumes some sort of payment is taken for granted."
--------

She's not talking about kid parties, of course, where you might end up going to one almost every weekend and everyone brings gifts, but this does make sense to me...which is why I have mostly avoided the issue by having parties for other reasons besides birthdays. I am certainly not opposed to people bringing something they made, or really think my kid would like--it's just the obligatory whatever that bugs me. I used to work in a bookstore and every single weekend there would be parents rushing in there to grab something off the shelf on their way to a party. I mean, maybe they were always getting really good books (no reason you couldn't give the same one to everybody) but it certainly didn't seem like a lot of thought or consideration was going into these gifts.

Still, though, if I (rudely) said "No gifts, please" on an invitation, and people brought gifts, I would be angry, and embarassed for the people who did NOT bring them. (When I got a no gifts invite I was relieved--but I DID bring a bottle of wine for the parents. I always think the parents deserve something just as much as the kids







)

And again--the opening stuff in front of everybody is HORRIBLE. Maybe I just get innacurate vibes, but to me it often seems like everyone in the room is just enduring it--sometimes even the kid. If there are just a couple of guests then maybe, but when it's like 15 people--blaaaaaaggghhh.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I had been planning to say "no gifts" on dd's future birthday party invites, but I like the idea of no bought gifts. Especially when she is really young, I don't think she will miss them. When she's older, if she feels like she's missing out, we can deal with it. I am hoping if we just never do it, she won't be expecting it.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

This thread has been very educational for me. Thanks everyone! In light of what I have learned, I think that we are just going to stop having birthday parties. It is sad because I like to celebrate with a crowd. But the guilt of consuming too much plastic crap, making people feel bad, and the clutter it results in is just too much. I wish there were a way to celebrate birthdays and make everyone happy. But since it is rude for me to request no gifts and apparently people think they can just ignore the request anyway, i do not see any solution. I would be happy to do a book exchange or something, but I think that is probably also techincally "rude" too, no?


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## oyemicanto (Feb 11, 2005)

I have really enjoyed reading and participating in this thread. It has given me the opportunity to reflect on my own values and how I want my children to experience celebrations.

Right now, I feel that I will continue to honor my childrens' birthdays with parties, inviting their friends and relatives. I don't mind if the guests bring a gift or don't bring a gift. (On DD's 4th birthday she got a lot of gifts, many of them plastic crap. Oh well. Her favorite was some homemade peach jam given by a neighbor friend. She still talks about it.)

I also like to give a goody bag and do a pinata. Usually I give a small book for the little ones, a pad of paper and funky pen for the older ones...something along those lines.

I don't see where gift giving/receiving is negative, unless it gets "over the top." We have always been able to pick out/make a gift that is reasonable in terms of cost.

I think this post is off-topic regarding how I would respond to a "no gifts" invitation, but I really feel my kids deserve to have a special day one day out of the year, and we can celebrate in a way that "feels right" to us.And I don't think there is anything wrong with receiving gifts.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoopervegan*
This thread has been very educational for me. Thanks everyone! In light of what I have learned, I think that we are just going to stop having birthday parties. It is sad because I like to celebrate with a crowd. But the guilt of consuming too much plastic crap, making people feel bad, and the clutter it results in is just too much. I wish there were a way to celebrate birthdays and make everyone happy. But since it is rude for me to request no gifts and apparently people think they can just ignore the request anyway, i do not see any solution. I would be happy to do a book exchange or something, but I think that is probably also techincally "rude" too, no?

Just make sure you put "no gifts" on the invitations to the pity party you're having.









JK!!









Just do what you want. Surely the back and forth debate of a bunch of virtual strangers shouldn't change the way you do things. That's the great thing about a board like this... you can get opinions, and if you still don't agree... you're not going to hurt anybody. It's nice to have a place to debate, though. Take our opinions with a grain of salt, and if some nugget of information helps, great, if it doesn't... leave it.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Personally, I think Miss Manners is outdated, and (especially) for a kid's birthday party, the people I am inviting all know us and our values well, so it's not like they'd be surprised that we said "no gifts." Everyone in our circle basically feels the same way. So I will continue to write "no gifts" with wild abandon when I send invitations (which I don't actually do, because they are a waste of paper. I call or email people to invite them and tell them then that it's a no-gifts party. I'm SupeRude and proud of it!) I don't buy the idea that "no gifts" means that gifts are generally expected. It simply means what it says: we don't want gifts at this party. I actually think it's polite to let people know that you want them, not their gift, at the party.

Old-fashioned manners don't really fit today's realities in a lot of cases, and getting all het up about "breaches of etiquette" strikes me as the hobby of someone who doesn't have enough to do.









Namaste!


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I've never even heard of miss manners so i'm not to worried about her advice.

yoopervegan- we have come to some great places with birthdays in our house, birthdays I feel very good about. IF we were to do a party, we'd do a theme party [lets say teddy bears for example] and never mention it was a birthday. I would just say ''you're invited to a Teddy Bear Party'' date, time, etc and then write ''just bring yourself, and your favorite teddy bear'' or use it within any theme.... a garden party everyone could bring seeds to and they could learn about planting seeds and take their planted pot home with them [you can do this very green with leftover newspaper as the ''planter'' or what not] This will bring the focus off who the party is for and if they need a gift and on to whatever they need to celebrate with you. If anyone apologizes or says they wish they'd known just say ''oh no, we celebrate all the birthdays without gifts- but thanks so much for the kind gesture''

Rubywild, you said ''friendly debate'' but your tone seems very unfriendly, am I just reading your words wrong? [I know it is real hard to tell online]


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Miss Manners is usually really funny and realistic and not too thrilled about materialistic excess, and so I wonder what she would say about KID parties.

On the other hand. This thread has actually made me want to have a Yes Gifts party for my kid


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

We just had DD's 4th bday party, which was no gifts. We followed the lead of a friend's party, who was no gifts. I thought that it was perfect as we were inviting school classmates and families, who we know but not necessarily that well. I have been to other parties, buying gifts and not having a clue as to what to get. Now, at both DD's party and the other kid's no gift party, another girl brought a gift. I had to kind of roll me eyes. I am sure no one was offended, but I found it a bit...pushy?? for lack of a better word. I know and am friends with the mom, and know it was meant with good intentions, I just thought it a bit unnecessary. What DD has done for no gift parties is to make a picture. That doesn't in my mind qualify in the no gift rule.

Last year we didn't say no gifts, she got gifts, and it was ok too, but until she asked for it to be different, I am going with no gifts. It isn't as if she doesn't get a ton for her family, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. Now, if only I can get DH to agree to no party favors.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
Miss Manners is usually really funny and realistic and not too thrilled about materialistic excess, and so I wonder what she would say about KID parties.

On the other hand. This thread has actually made me want to have a Yes Gifts party for my kid









Really? Why?


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## Stephanie L. (Jun 7, 2005)

So many great points have been made. For us: I prefer the no-gift policy for our children's parties, but it seems confusing to my DD whenever we buy for others' b-day gifts. As a compromise I like the exchange idea.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

We just went to a party where "no gifts" was clearly stated on the invite...and there were LOTS of gifts, which were opened at the party.







I felt a little bad that we had "followed instructions" and not bought anything. Oy!


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
IF we were to do a party, we'd do a theme party [lets say teddy bears for example] and never mention it was a birthday. I would just say ''you're invited to a Teddy Bear Party'' date, time, etc and then write ''just bring yourself, and your favorite teddy bear'' or use it within any theme.... a garden party everyone could bring seeds to and they could learn about planting seeds and take their planted pot home with them [you can do this very green with leftover newspaper as the ''planter'' or what not] This will bring the focus off who the party is for and if they need a gift and on to whatever they need to celebrate with you. If anyone apologizes or says they wish they'd known just say ''oh no, we celebrate all the birthdays without gifts- but thanks so much for the kind gesture''

This is along the lines of what we are planning for dd's birthday - a messy party!







Because dd is in preschool and is invited to the birthday parties of her classmates, she is getting ideas about parties and gifts already. (She asked for a bounce house







) AND her birthday is in JULY









I agree that as parents we have to let things go sometimes. The line where letting go starts is different for all of us. It is so hard to stem the flow of _stuff_ - but at the same time I will not keep dd from going to a friends birthday party because it has some garish theme (a la Disney).
On the other hand, I am comfortable with being the one to be out of the norm and not doing what everyone else does. If that means that dd will ask for "no gifts" at her birthday party, then thats alright. I really like the idea of a theme like books for the library







I'm already the hippie mom







Hopefully when dd is old enough to understand what is happening she will be happy to not get a pile of stuff for herself and do something else instead (what, I dont know - but I hope she will take the lead). I really think that the only way to get there is to start now by refocusing the birthday celebration away for the pile of gifts.

If Miss Manners doesnt like it then


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Oh, I guess just that this thread has made me relax a little bit about hating the plastic crap, as long as the crap is given sincerely...which I think some people do. And that it is kinda rude to tell someone who genuinely wants to give a gift that they shouldn't.

Problem though is that realistically a lot of gift-giving at bday parties & places where you don't know the other parents well is NOT going to be that kind of gift. So. I will still probably find ways around the gifts by having parties for other reasons, or do some of the creative things people are doing here.

Really, though, I actually have kid parties for ME--I feel like the grownups are very interested in having something resembling a grownup party they can take kids to, so that is the kind of thing I like to do (like have them between 4 and bedtime, that sort of thing, so parents can feel justified in having a glass of wine and relaxing). I even invite people without kids! Horrors!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
Really, though, I actually have kid parties for ME--I feel like the grownups are very interested in having something resembling a grownup party they can take kids to, so that is the kind of thing I like to do (like have them between 4 and bedtime, that sort of thing, so parents can feel justified in having a glass of wine and relaxing). I even invite people without kids! Horrors!

Well, I totally agree with you on that one. We do this too, and I would say half the parties we have been to are like this. We were just at one this weekend where the kids were upstairs playing, adults were downstairs eating awesome food, drinking wine, beer or other, and having a fabulously luxurous Saturday afternoon. It was so low-key, but nice, and we all had a great time.


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## riversprite_ca (Oct 10, 2002)

We went to a friend's No Gift birthday party a few years ago. Go figure, we were the ONLY ONES who abided by their request.
Maia ended up feeling badly that she was the only one who didn't bring a gift!


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*

Really, though, I actually have kid parties for ME--I feel like the grownups are very interested in having something resembling a grownup party they can take kids to, so that is the kind of thing I like to do (like have them between 4 and bedtime, that sort of thing, so parents can feel justified in having a glass of wine and relaxing). I even invite people without kids! Horrors!

This is what we do too. Dd is only 2.5 so most of her friends are adults and their kids of widely varying ages. We usually start our parties around 6pm and they go until the last man is standing (usually dd.....we had a party last week and she was up until 2am!!!!!!). We have activities for the kids, food for everyone, and places for children to crash when they get tired (usually play tents near the circle of adults so they feel close).


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh, I am feeling so torn about this very issue right now!

I am about to send out invitations for my twin sons' third birthday party, which will be on their birthday, February 18th.

For their first birthday party, we did a whole group party with all of their friends who were all turning one then too. Everyone brought one wrapped gift, and we all swapped, and it was really fun.

Last year we didn't do a birthday party at all because we were moving and it was crazy.

This year, my boys really understand the birthday party thing. We have been to so many birthday parties over the past year, and they always want to know when it's going to be THEIR birthday party. So, we decided we sort of have to have one, and I also do think it will be fun.

I feel tempted to do the "no gifts" thing, but Lukas and Jasper are TOTALLY expecting gifts from their friends. They always help me make or pick out the presents that we bring to parties, and that's always an exciting part of it for them. So, whenever we talk about their birthday party, they say, "and our friends will bring us presents, and we'll have cake, and a pinata. . . etc." So, I feel like they would be really disappointed if I said that there weren't going to be any presents.

And I feel awkward about requesting a particular type of gift, even though I'd really love it if everyone brought books or puzzles or something homemade. I think that the families we are inviting would all bring nice gifts since they know us and know that we're snobby like that (no plastic stuff), but I guess there's no way to know for sure. The whole thing is just awkward, especially since my boys are twins and I wonder if everyone will think they need to get a present for each of them (which, I guess they sort of DO need to do).

So, I'd pretty much decided that we just wouldn't say anything about gifts on the invitations, and that we wouldn't open any of the presents during the party. We are only inviting six families, so hopefully even if they do all bring gifts, it won't be too overwhelming. We are giving the boys each two puzzles, three books, and a small frog drum (something they've wanted for a long time), so I don't think the presents from us will be overwhelming.

But then I read this thread and now I just don't know. I love the idea of the book exchange, but I wonder if my boys would be confused as to why the presents aren't all for them, and since nothing like that has been done at any of the parties we've been to, I wonder what people would think. Do I say "no store bought gifts," or is that a lot to ask of the working full-time, less creative folks who would really prefer to just buy something? Do I say "no gifts please" and just explain it to my boys?

What would you do in my situation?

Lex


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
Oh, I guess just that this thread has made me relax a little bit about hating the plastic crap, as long as the crap is given sincerely...which I think some people do. And that it is kinda rude to tell someone who genuinely wants to give a gift that they shouldn't.


I agree completely. My kids just got hte little people train station as a gift from my brother and his wife. I'd never dream of telling them not to give it. That is their experience with their relationship with their auntie and uncle.. it tells about their family to allow the them to give the kinds of gifts they want to, from their heart. And it tells our kids to be thankful and gracious when we don't turn our nose at gifts given to us.

I also agree thought that it is different than the piles of toys one gets at a birthday. To many at once, often given out of social obligation and norms than from the heart. We don't do gift parties, but my kids do get gifts at other times of the year... and sometimes even plastic


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

lexbeach, honestly... I'd have a traditional party. I like to downplay things, but I also have kids who haven't been to a traditional party and don't know that lots of kids get lots of gifts. It is just what they know, so they are delighted with it. I think there is value in letting your kids feel ''normal'' and part of the flow... I think to force otherwise might do more harm than good.

You have 18 years or more to help instill the values of materialism and giving... and imo this has to be safely balanced with not letting kids feel deprived. For them to give things up begrudgingly would only make it harder for them to learn the lessons you want to teach them.

If another parent asks what to get just thank them for their kindness and say ''if you want to do something, just do something simple and low key'' you might even add ''... since there are two of them I'd hate for them to get used to a massive collection of toys each year, you know? [chuckle]''

I think it would be better not to ask for specific kinds/types of toys... and I wouldn't advise doing no gifts if they are really looking forward to it. I'd only do that if the child didn't care or if they were old enough to discuss it and find and even middle ground that made everyone happy.

jmo.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

You know, the whole kid birthday party thing is really weird to me. When I was growing up, on birthdays you got to pick your favorite food for dinner, and you had cake and few presents after, but it was a family affair - very special and nice. I think I went to one kid party during elemenarty school.

But of course, when your kids are invited to several parties a year, they will want one too. It is like the ante has been raised on what is normal. Now it is not normal not to have big birthday parties?


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

The middle-class norm is just more of everything all the time, or something. Like houses used to have one bathroom, and nobody cared that much (unless yoou were the one waiting...). Now you're supposed to have one bathroom for every bedroom. People used to have 1 TV--now they have 2 or 3. Everyone's supposed to buy a set of new clothes every few months, have 7 pairs of shoes when they used to have 2. You can't even keep a kitchen or a bathroom for 30 years--you're supposed to "update" all the time. Etc.

The birthday parties are just part of this. Selling more stuff, making it seem normal for people to shower 4-year-olds with more toys in one day than some kids get in 5 years. I read somewhere that the average American child now gets 70 new toys a year. !!!!! The first time I went into a Toys R Us I almost passed out. I had NO IDEA it was like that. It does bother me that to be polite you are supposed to go along with social trends that I think are really destructive...and, you know, stuff that not that many people are truly into anyway. I just can't believe that they really are. They do it because they think they're supposed to, because 'everyone else' does it. But if everyone is doing it only because everyone else does it, rather than because they truly WANT to do it, then...


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:

I've seen this before, but IMHO, it is rude not to open gifts together as a group. How else can you thank the giver in person? I don't get it. And I think the kids enjoy seeing what the birthday girl/boy received...isn't it part of the fun?
I don't know. To me, it seems like that's the worst part of the party - at least for toddlers! None of the other kids want to sit and watch someone else open gifts for 30 minutes. So the parents either have to hold their kids back or they let them "help" your child open gifts. Either way, NOT fun!







Hmmm, maybe someone should start a thread on party manners.









Anywhooo, this thread has really made me think. I certainly wouldn't think someone rude if they specified 'no gift', but after giving it some thought I wouldn't do that for my son's party. I don't like all the ten tons of crap, but I also don't want him to be the "wierd" kid (well, our family is already "wierd" for a number of reasons that I'm NOT going to compromise on so this is harmless imo), I don't want him to be confused when we are at other parties, I really don't think he'll become a spoiled brat because he gets toys at Christmas and birthdays, and I figure some good can still come of it. I can teach him how to accept gifts and how to thank people, blah blah. We can certainly play up the other aspects of the party - it doesn't have to be all about the loot.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

I haven't read the whole thread yet but wanted to say that I too am against all the massive piles of crap kids receive BUT I think the opening presents part of the party is a VERY important part.

It teaches kids manners and how to thank people and the other kids love it when their presents are opened. Last year for my 5 yo's birthday party we had each of the kids sit in a circle holding their gift and he opened them one by one, thanking each child individually and giving them a hug. The children were all delighted.

For us it's not about the "loot" but about the act of giving and receiving. We try to keep our parties small (about 10 kids) so that it doesn't become overload. We do that despite our oldest being invited to upwards of 25 parties a year. He just has to pick and choose who he's going to invite.


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
Miss Manners is usually really funny and realistic and not too thrilled about materialistic excess, and so I wonder what she would say about KID parties.

On the other hand. This thread has actually made me want to have a Yes Gifts party for my kid









Miss Manners would be too polite to say anything about the excesses sometimes achieved by parents for kid parties.

She would also be too polite to mention that it's rude to assume people were bringing gifts to a birthday party by putting "no gifts" on an invite. However she would have no problem with you telling invitees that you would just like the pleasure of their company when they ask you want your child would like for their birthday.

I have to admit this is the reason why we don't have big parties for dd yet and probably never will. It sort of quickly becomes wedding gift redux.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

I see no problem hosting a no-gifts party for young children. And, frankly, who cares if mom gets upset when her DH forgets a holiday? What does that have to do with her child's party? It's not as if she, DH, and other family are not going to give her child gifts (at least, that's not what op stated). As long as the child's birthday is celebrated with some gifts from family at another time outside of the party, there's no problem.

For my son's 3rd birthday we had a messy party and requested no gifts. A couple of people brought gifts because they didn't feel right not bringing something. That's fine, that's their choice. We just set them aside, opened them after the party, and sent nice thank-you notes. We didn't feel weird about it because we had asked for no gifts. At that time, my son was soooo not interested in opening numerous gifts. It's an all-day affair because as soon as he opens something, all he wants to do is play with it . . . not open the next one. But he had a GREAT time at his party, and we celebrated his birthday on the actual day the following week with presents and cake, just as a family.

We'll continue to do no-gift parties for years. At some point, if my kids are going to parties where there are gifts, then we may start doing parties that way . . . or we may talk to our kids to find out what they want to do rather than assuming they want the same kind of party. And I'm sure, as my kids develop special friendships, they'll receive and give gifts to those friends.

I'd rather have the gift of someone's company than some obligatory gift . . . and I'm teaching my kids that value too. They'll learn the fun is in the party itself, and not the windfall of booty. Seems to me that many kids learn the opposite when parties include gifts. Just my own observation.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
Miss Manners . . . would also be too polite to mention that it's rude to assume people were bringing gifts to a birthday party by putting "no gifts" on an invite.


I'm sorry, who here doesn't assume you will bring a gift to a child's birthday party unless it requests no gifts?

Can we see a show of hands?


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenmk*
I'm sorry, who here doesn't assume you will bring a gift to a child's birthday party unless it requests no gifts?

Can we see a show of hands?

It's not that you as the attendee to the party don't assume you bring a gift. It's that it's rude for the giver of the party to assume that you will bring a gift. I never show up at someone's house empty handed but it would be rude for the hostess to assume that I would bring her something. Miss Manners point is that a gift should be something you want to give to someone b/c you are moved by the occasion or by the person not b/c you are obliged to. And that a handmade friendship bracelet is more meaningful than a $50 plastic crap thing that was given b/c the giver wanted to impress all the attendees of the party. An invitation to any party except for a shower, is just that an invitation to a party not a solicitation for gifts. So to put "no gifts" or "cash only" or "we're registered at...." is to turn the invitation to a party that you are hosting into an assumption that that invite is a solicitation for gifts.

So I think what Miss Manners and etiquette is actually doing is calling for a return to what birthdays and weddings actually are a celebration of the anniversary of one's birth or a celebration of two people committing to each other not a competition of how much stuff people can give you.

My Lebanese relatives in general do not open gifts in front of other people b/c it's rude. So when I'm confronted with someone who is obviously just giving me or dd a gift to impress everyone and insists on me or dd opening it, I politely explain that in my culture we never open gifts in front of other people b/c we wouldn't want to make anyone feel guilty for not bringing a gift and politely set it aside.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
It's not that you as the attendee to the party don't assume you bring a gift. It's that it's rude for the giver of the party to assume that you will bring a gift. I never show up at someone's house empty handed but it would be rude for the hostess to assume that I would bring her something. Miss Manners point is that a gift should be something you want to give to someone b/c you are moved by the occasion or by the person not b/c you are obliged to.

I don't think it's rude to assume that people will brings gifts to a child's birthday party in our culture. That is what happens. Everyone knows it, and therefore everyone expects it. (That's not to say that if someone showed up empty-handed that the hosts would be offended . . . some would, I'm sure, and some wouldn't care.) But, it's a bit simple to suggest that it's not a given that people will bring gifts to a child's birthday party. It is a given. And, so therefore, it's not rude to assume they will. I think it's a relief to let people off the hook, so to speak. And if someone is so moved by the occasion or the child to bring a gift anyway, that's fine. I've done it. I've brought a gift because the child was special to me or my kids. But no one is obligated . . . and if I didn't write "no gifts, please" on the invite everyone would feel obligated. That's just the way it is.

And I'm just talking about a child's birthday party. Any other party that we are invited to, outside of showers, I do not feel obliged to bring a gift. Not even to an adult's birthday party. If I want to bring something, I do. And I certainly do not expect people to bring me gifts whenever I throw a party. Who does? But a child's birthday party is different. A traditional party--which many people think of with kids--includes cake, games, gifts for the child, and parting goodies for the attendees. Unless someone requests "no gifts" on the invite, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who didn't feel obligated to bring a gift.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
And that a handmade friendship bracelet is more meaningful than a $50 plastic crap thing

I totally agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
An invitation to any party except for a shower, is just that an invitation to a party not a solicitation for gifts. So to put "no gifts" or "cash only" or "we're registered at...." is to turn the invitation to a party that you are hosting into an assumption that that invite is a solicitation for gifts.

I think it depends on the party. A child's birthday party in our society is a gift-filled frenzy. In other cultures it's not. And if you want to avoid the frenzy and have a party for your child that is just a party, then it's necessary to politely request no gifts. It lets everyone know, contrary to what you stated, that the party is, in fact, not a solicitation for gifts. That each person's presence is the gift, and that gathering for a good time is the point.

I agree that "cash only" or "we're registered at" additions are rude and are a blatant solicitation for gifts. But putting "no gifts, please" is not . . . especially when we're talking about a child's birthday party.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

I don't really get why opening gifts in front of people is teaching manners. Sure, the kid is prompted to say "thank you" over and over again, but haven't yet heard many genuine "thank you"s--and when I have, the moment is wrecked because 10 seconds later they're supposed to open *another* gift. I think plenty of kids just can't deal with all that stuff at one time anyway.

I think you have to look at what the public gift opening is really teaching kids, and that is that the point of the gathering is to collect a bunch of objects, which are so important the entire socializing of the party comes to a halt so everyone can sit there watching all the objects get displayed and commented on (while everyone quietly evaluates the gifts given by the others). It's always made me feel *really* weird, and is by *far* my least favorite part of any birthday party (or baby shower, etc.). It teaches kids to not value any of the gifts very much, since there will just be another one in a few seconds.

I read somewhere that contrary to popular belief, Americans are actually not overly materialistic--on the contrary, we are not materialistic enough, because we do not value our things very much. We learn to just throw stuff away and get new ones, go for quantity rather than quality, have no knowledge about or interest in the people who actually constructed the things, etc. Probably one of the first places we learn this is at birthday parties.

Changing my mind again--I think I'm back to "no gifts."


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
I read somewhere that contrary to popular belief, Americans are actually not overly materialistic--on the contrary, we are not materialistic enough, because we do not value our things very much. We learn to just throw stuff away and get new ones, go for quantity rather than quality, have no knowledge about or interest in the people who actually constructed the things, etc. Probably one of the first places we learn this is at birthday parties.

I have thought about this too. As in we are so materialistic that we don't care about what we have. (Unlike my MIL, who has made lists of things that she wants to stay in the family because they are meaningful to her. I am thinking, but what about me? Don't I get to decide what I want in my house when you are DEAD?? But I digress.)

As far as opening gifts, the one gift party DD had, when she was 3, she opened gifts pretty much as soon as she got them. Which I thought was quite ok. No sense in making a big spectecle about opening them.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*
. . . the entire socializing of the party comes to a halt so everyone can sit there watching all the objects get displayed and commented on (while everyone quietly evaluates the gifts given by the others). It's always made me feel *really* weird, and is by *far* my least favorite part of any birthday party (or baby shower, etc.).

I totally agree. And it's sooooooooooooooo boring. That's one reason I don't like showers. (That and the inane games.)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Just adding, for the record, that we just had our DD's second birthday party. We put "no gifts, please" on the invitation. Despite this, about 4 people brought gifts anyway. I guess there's nothing you can do! The hard part was figuring out what to do with them. We ended up just putting them away and opening them after the party, but I wonder if there was a better way. How have others handled this?


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

Loraxc:

I think if you put "no gifts, please" on an invite and people bring gifts anyway, they're not going to expect you to do the public opening of gifts.

We did the same thing for ds's 3rd birthday party. Two people brought gifts and they were just placed aside. No one seemed bothered, and I didn't even think about it. There were too many other things going on, the kids and parents were all involved and having fun. DS opened the two gifts later that day, when everyone was gone, and then we sent thank-you notes that he drew. The people loved the thank-you notes, and no one seemed to have their feelings hurt because the gifts were not opened in their presence.


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## MomInFlux (Oct 23, 2003)

Seems there's a lot of interest in this topic. Slate has this article today about this very subject. Makes for semi-interesting reading, if only because it's in a rather mainstream forum.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fuller2*

I think you have to look at what the public gift opening is really teaching kids, and that is that the point of the gathering is to collect a bunch of objects, which are so important the entire socializing of the party comes to a halt so everyone can sit there watching all the objects get displayed and commented on (while everyone quietly evaluates the gifts given by the others). It's always made me feel *really* weird, and is by *far* my least favorite part of any birthday party (or baby shower, etc.). It teaches kids to not value any of the gifts very much, since there will just be another one in a few seconds.

I get that this is your opinion, but when my son opens his presents, that is certainly not what we are teaching him. He has small parties and when his friends give him *small* presents (because they're all $15 or less), they are learning to give to others, he is learning to receive graciously, they are all learning to take turns and all are learning appreciation for what others give.

My son loves to bring his specially picked *small* present to his friend's birthday that he has wrapped and made a card for, give it directly to his friend and watch his friend open it. His FAVORITE part by far and I'm confident it has nothing to do with rampant materialism or whatever.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomInFlux*
Seems there's a lot of interest in this topic. Slate has this article today about this very subject. Makes for semi-interesting reading, if only because it's in a rather mainstream forum.


That was interesting, thanx for sharing. Very middle of the road approach, I liked it.


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomInFlux*
Seems there's a lot of interest in this topic. Slate has this article today about this very subject. Makes for semi-interesting reading, if only because it's in a rather mainstream forum.

I think that article pretty much sums up what's disgusting about children's birthdays. Does one really need to invite 25 kids to a 6 year old's birthday? Why not make a rule if you want him to get just 5 gifts that he just invites his 5 closest friends? I know if some mother who traditionally did no gifts or a book swap sent out an invite for that traditional book swap and then informed me that my child was chosen to give her son a birthday gift rather than a book, I'd suddenly be going out of town that weekend. It's not a good compromise at all. All it's doing is reinforcing to the child that he should expect presents for his birthday and that his mother is depriving him of 25 gifts but at least she let him get 5 this year.







:

Fortunately we live in "spartan" Vermont so at least I can look forward to more sane birthday parties as dd gets older.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

That's a good point lisalou.


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

Thanks for the article. Boy, makes me want to move to the yurt in the middle of nowhere even more than I did before







. This is actually one reason I would like to get out the urban area I'm in right now, because the culture here is the 25 presents for the most part. But not everyone is like that, as jkpmomtoboys pointed out. I could deal with 5 or 6 presents being opened, that doesn't seem excessive.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

25 kids? I can't even imagine. I once did a party for 16 kids, and that was the biggest party any parent around here had ever seen. DS1 got about 10 gifts (two sets of siblings, and two parents called to say their child wouldn't be there, because they couldn't afford a gift! I told them to forget it - ds1 really liked their kids, and he wanted them to be there.) that year. It was crazy. I wished I'd asked for no gifts, but I don't really like doing that. I know that I'm uncomfortable showing up at a party with no gift, so I don't like putting people in that position.

DS1 has a roomful of stuff. He never throws anything away. Some of his "plastic crap" has ended up being toys for dd to play with, and she's 10 years younger than he is. He hasn't always taken the best care of his toys, but not terrible, either. And, he amazes me. I pointed out something in his room the other day, and said, "wow - you've had that since you were about four"...and he said, "I know - Auntie Pam gave it to me". I still can't believe he remembered that after six years!

I don't have a problem with the "no gift" parties, but I think I'd feel uncomfortable with one.


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## Snowbaby (Nov 23, 2003)

Well, I for one, love to give gifts to friends and family and to DD's friends when it's their special day ... so I would hate to be deprived of the opportunity and wouldn't do it to others.

When we have a party, we have a party and let others decide if they want to bring something or not. I think that stating ANYTHING about presents one way or another is rude ... even if it's to say "No Gifts" or "Please donate to ..." or "In lieu of a present, please bring something handmade", etc. Just say "Come Celebrate" and leave the rest of it alone, is my opinion.

It seems like lately people are getting as uptight and judgmental in the whole "No gift" circuit as they have historically been in the "Gifting" circuit .... deciding what's right and what's not and getting worked up over others not "doing it right". I say just have a party and to each guest his own.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

The problem seems to be having a party for 25 kids. What has an adult birthday and invites 25 people and gets 25 gifts? Sounds awful.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Just adding, for the record, that we just had our DD's second birthday party. We put "no gifts, please" on the invitation. Despite this, about 4 people brought gifts anyway. I guess there's nothing you can do! The hard part was figuring out what to do with them. We ended up just putting them away and opening them after the party, but I wonder if there was a better way. How have others handled this?

We had the same thing. 2 year old party at Gymboree, 13 kids, about 5 brought gifts. Fortunately DH happened to be in the parking lot while people were coming in and most handed their gifts to him and he put them in the car directly. We opened them at home with very little fanfare and will be sending very nice thank you notes.

What *can* you do? I had one friend ask me if I "really meant no gifts" I have no idea what she meant by that. I certainly didn't put the request on the invitation for kicks.


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## mamaGjr (Jul 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ABand3*
At the first "no-gifts" party I attended, about half the people brought gifts - making those of us who didn't feel awkward. Shortly after that my DS2 had his first bday, and we really didn't need anything - he had all the clothes, balls, blocks, trucks, etc. that a kid could want. So rather than say 'no gifts', we asked for books only, and that worked out really well. That way, people could enjoy shopping for him, he enjoyed opening a few (big brother handled the rest), and people who didn't want to spend a lot could just get one ~$5 book; grandparents who wanted to go overboard bought him several $12+ books. Worked well for everyone, and I'd do it that way again.


ha ha for my first and only baby shower we requested books and other stuff too....for functional reasons ...
most people did not even bring a book .. i was peeved
we got way more than we wanted and ended up donating a bunch o stuff
what is so hard bout buying a book ?or more importantly passing on a book? no $ required?????????????


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomInFlux*
Seems there's a lot of interest in this topic. Slate has this article today about this very subject. Makes for semi-interesting reading, if only because it's in a rather mainstream forum.


Wow, that blows me away. This is exactly why we wanted a no gift party for DD. Birthday parties should be about celebrating the birthday girl or boy with his/her favorite friends and having a good time, not an orgy of gift openening or demands for particular kinds of gifts from particular people.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
What *can* you do? I had one friend ask me if I "really meant no gifts" I have no idea what she meant by that. I certainly didn't put the request on the invitation for kicks.

She was wondering if you meant it. There are people who put that on invitations, not so much because they don't want people to bring gifts, as because they don't want people to feel as though they _have_ to. I think your friend was trying to determine if your request was genuine (eg. made from philosophical objections to consumerism) or pro forma (eg. not wanting to look greedy).


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
I think that article pretty much sums up what's disgusting about children's birthdays. Does one really need to invite 25 kids to a 6 year old's birthday? Why not make a rule if you want him to get just 5 gifts that he just invites his 5 closest friends? I know if some mother who traditionally did no gifts or a book swap sent out an invite for that traditional book swap and then informed me that my child was chosen to give her son a birthday gift rather than a book, I'd suddenly be going out of town that weekend. It's not a good compromise at all. All it's doing is reinforcing to the child that he should expect presents for his birthday and that his mother is depriving him of 25 gifts but at least she let him get 5 this year.







:

Fortunately we live in "spartan" Vermont so at least I can look forward to more sane birthday parties as dd gets older.


Well you may invite 25 kids because that is how many children are in his class and like my dd, you dont' want to exclude anyone. Hardly a 'disgusting" reason.

But the "choosing" the friends to give gifts. Were these people kidding. That was indeed disgusting!

And if they really were sooooo intent on their kid not getting alot of gifts why not fogo the gifts THEMSELVES over the holidays. Or just let the child cull thru the gifts after they have been given and give the rest to charity.

That is what we do. My dd's pick between 5-7 gifts they really like and we give the rest to charity. It's never been hard for them to do this. My dd's enjoy bringing things to the local community house and they are later passed out to children who might never get a gift otherwise ( the center give them as b-day gifts to children who are involved with the center).


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Well you may invite 25 kids because that is how many children are in his class and like my dd, you dont' want to exclude anyone. Hardly a 'disgusting" reason.


No not disgusting, but wierd. The entire class?! I undertand that schools have an invite one child invite them all polices for parties, but that is more about not leaving students out than having an afternoon get together for your son's birthday with cake and games for his 5 closest friends.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
Well you may invite 25 kids because that is how many children are in his class and like my dd, you dont' want to exclude anyone. Hardly a 'disgusting" reason.

I think if the school is setting up policies or even making recommendations about this kind of thing then I think that's quite disgusting. A child's birthday party is not a school event! I also don't think it's right to expect that parents can host 25 kids in their home - that's a lot of work and a lot of expense. If it's the child that decides s/he wants to invite all the kids in his/her class so as not to exclude anyone that's admirable, but when the school, teachers or other parents start getting involved and making rules about how many children need to be invited that's just totally wrong.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
She was wondering if you meant it. There are people who put that on invitations, not so much because they don't want people to bring gifts, as because they don't want people to feel as though they _have_ to. I think your friend was trying to determine if your request was genuine (eg. made from philosophical objections to consumerism) or pro forma (eg. not wanting to look greedy).

Yeah that was my thought, which is what made me uncomfortable. The request was sincere, not as a statement against consumerism but as a sincere invitation to enjoy my daugher's existence if that makes sense. This is a friend that "does the circuit" where plastic toys abound and invitations are about making sure there are a certain number of kids at your party for appearances' sake so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Still it was a bit offensive I thought.


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## Quagmire (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
No not disgusting, but wierd. The entire class?! I undertand that schools have an invite one child invite them all polices for parties, but that is more about not leaving students out than having an afternoon get together for your son's birthday with cake and games for his 5 closest friends.

Personally I think it's nice that Maya's DD wanted to invite her whole class. It says something about the culture of that classroom (not to mention her daughter's feelings for making sure no one gets left out) There is way too much bullying and exclusion in school so it's a very positive change indeed.

I got the feeling from her post that it was her daughter's choice, not any policy making by the school.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
Personally I think it's nice that Maya's DD wanted to invite her whole class. It says something about the culture of that classroom (not to mention her daughter's feelings for making sure no one gets left out) There is way too much bullying and exclusion in school so it's a very positive change indeed.

I got the feeling from her post that it was her daughter's choice, not any policy making by the school.

sure, but it is excessive, IMO.

A 25 person birthday party is excessive - I would never have such a party, never have had such a party; I've never known any adult who have ever thrown such a large party in honor of themselves (my wedding and all my friend's wedding were small, intimate affairs). So yes, to me it seems wierd and and excessive and embarrassing to invite 25 people to celebrate your birth.

I am concerend that it is becoming the new "normal." Who waats to deny their kid a "normal" childhood, but what is a parent to do when culture changes so that what is "normal" to our children is embarrasingly excessive and weird and wasteful to us?


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I think it's excessive too. It's the main reason why in our family we rarely have birthday parties that involve a bunch of kids - it's usually just family and maybe one or two friends. And ya know what? My children have never complained and never asked for more. I think sometimes parents think that their children expect more then they actually do.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quagmire*
Still it was a bit offensive I thought.

Look on the bright side - at least she asked, instead of just showing up with a Leap Pad or something.

We usually had from four to six guests at our parties when I was a kid. DS1 has had anywhere from six to 16 (first year of school...he invited classmates and relatives and family friends - after that, he went to just classmates) - usually about eight. DD's parties have just been family - so only seven kids, other than her brothers (fortunately, that's only two families, so there aren't seven gifts to deal with).

When people ask me what my kids need/want, I always include clothes...spares me from having to shop, and they don't end up with a bunch of useless toys.

DS1 turns 13 this year. I'm starting to suggest dinner at a restaurant with the family and two or three friends, but he's not biting yet. I wonder if he doesn't want to give up his cake, and doesn't understand that I'll make his cake, regardless. hmm....


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

The problem Ive seen with "no gifts" birthday parties is half the people either forgot about that being on the invitation or don't care and brought something anyway leaving everything else feeling awkward for coming empty handed. A lot of people think "no gifts" means "I dont want to ask for gifts"


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

My children are only 2yo and 4mo but we definitely plan to have a no gift policy for birthday parties. We will still give presents and accept them from close family, but they won't be opened at the party with their friends. It think it's much more appealing to find ways to rise to the challenge of finding other ways to make the day special rather than focusing on presents (I do like the idea of asking for books, homemade presents or a donation to charity if you do ask for presents though).

We are trying to keep the focus off acquiring possessions in other aspects of out life as well. DP and I like to give each other experiences (e.g. concert tickets) rather than things.For our anniversary I was thinking about going here.

ETA: If I were having a no gift party and people brought gifts I would inobtrusively tuck them away and send a thank you note later.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

OK honestly? That article didn't make one iota of sense to me. First, how odd is it that only a couple of kids brought presents? Then the other parents think what? And the other kids think what? Either that the present-bringing parents didn't pay attention to the words "book swap" or there really was an A list and a B list.

Secondly, I don't understand why anyone would HAVE to have 25 kids at a party. Sure, we have been invited to plenty of 20 kid birthday parties in which the whole class was invited. But I just tell my Kindergartener that if he wants to have thus-and-so kind of party, we don't invite the whole class. That we can do more with less kids. And that's it.

So yes, they sound like an odd combination of morally superior and confused...


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## bluereef (Sep 4, 2005)

You could suggest that guests give a gift to a child in need. WorldVision has a wonderful "gift catalog" in which you buy food/goods/services for people in need around the world. When you donate, you can specify how you want the money to be used. Such gifts are a blessing to both the recipient and the giver!









Such gifts help teach your child to delight in helping those in need.









http://www.worldvision.org/

During the holidays, we often donate money on behalf of a person, in order to "buy" something that relates to their interests. For example, if your sister is a teacher, donate money so poor children in Africa can go to school. If your father enjoys sports, donate a soccer ball to a child in South America who has no toys. We like to donate goats so needy families have food for themselves and can earn some extra money from the milk and milk products they sell from the goat's milk and kids.

For your party you can request that guests make donations to WorldVision, specifically to children's causes like basic medicines, mosquito nets to prevent malaria, educational tuition for countries that don't have free schools, clothes and blankets for those left homeless after the 2005 Pakistani earthquake, farming tools for their families, a share of a well for clean drinking water, redemption from the sex slave trade, seeds for growing a garden, toys and personal hygiene items, etc.

Wendy


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## mommyblueyes (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm really torn over this issue. My son is almost 2 (upcoming birthday party I'm trying to figure out) and this past Christmas I tried to get everyone not to buy him toys, I stressed books, art supplies, donations, handmade gifts, etc. It didn't work well. People either didn't respect our request or only bought him clothes, which was fine with me, but Christmas Eve at his grandparents house I saw the look on his face after opening only a few outifts, and I truly felt bad for him. An aunt showed up later and gave him a toy phone, and he loved it and sat and played with it and his cousins all night.

It taught me a lesson. I was trying to control something that wasn't mine to control, and it wasn't fair to him. I think gifts are okay as long as there is a balance and no one goes overboard. I still think I will make a "wish" list for his birthday to hopefully prevent the mountain of useless plastic toys.


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## KayasMama04 (Feb 4, 2006)

I would love to do a "no gift" party dd has way to many toys, way to many books etc...(thanks grandma lol) If i had one though my family would have a breakdown of some sort our family likes to give gifts. If i got a invite with no gifts then I would respect the parents and not bring one. Also if we ever do a "no gift" party and people still bring them ill put them off to the side and not open them at the party.


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayasMama04*
Also if we ever do a "no gift" party and people still bring them ill put them off to the side and not open them at the party.

I don't understand why you can't do that and leave out the "no gift" part. Maybe I'm naive but it seems to me a lot of the excess of gift giving could be stopped by just not having the "Opening of the Presents" event at birthday parties. You and your child can open gifts later and start writing thank you notes at the same time. I just can't imagine someone who has picked out a heartfelt gift of some sort to give to your child would really mind the skipping of watching your child trying to hurriedly go through 30 gifts and somehow appear vaguely grateful for each one. And the person who is giving a gift to show off how generous and amazing they are without taking the recipient into account kind of deserves not getting to show off.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lisalou*
30 gifts

That's why people don't want to leave out the "no gifts" part.

Namaste!


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## lisalou (May 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmamama*
That's why people don't want to leave out the "no gifts" part.

Namaste!

Then I guess I'm with jkpmomtoboys in being







as to why you have to invite 30 people to a child's birthday party. To me it sort of smacks of the same excess that you're trying to prevent by putting "no gifts" on the invite.


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