# Father wants me to Pump and Bottle feed, but i won't



## InnieTurnedOuttie (Sep 19, 2005)

Hello all, my joy hasn't birthed itself yet, another 9 weeks or so to go. Anyhow, I had a discussion with my partner last night and it came up again.
"Are you going to get a pump?", to which I always reply "no". I feel like I don't need one, and that I have the boobs so the baby should be feeding from them, and them exclusively unless there is a problem (which I hope there arn't any).

Problem is my partner feels as if this will interfere with things for some reason. He mentions non-issues like, "what if I want to take the baby out", to which I reply, "then you'll have to bring the boob too in case he gets hungry". I don't feel like I am being unreasonable. He mentions other women he knew who pumped and bottle fed as if that should be a reason for me to do the same. It's getting annoying and I don't understand why he's being so adamant about it. I'm not going to budge.
I've actually made tons of work-arounds at work to make sure I am able to breastfeed (not pump).
This is something that I feel is natural and important to my bond with the child. Honestly, I want baby to know who he goes to when he needs milk. I feel like that is why my body produces milk and why his father does not. It's my job. I don't get it, does he feel like I'll be too attached or want too much control over the baby?

Has anyone else had this problem with their mate?
How can I make him understand that this is one of the decisions given to us that I have power over and he will just have to work with it. I don't like to make it sound that way, but it's true.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

My DH said many of those same things before our first was born. He was worried about not getting a chance to bond with baby, he was listening to what certain other (non-breastfeeding) people were saying to him. Can you print some stuff from www.kellymom.com about the potential problems pumping and bottle feeding can create? When I was forced to pump because my DD was unable to nurse, my husband realized how much work it was. When he saw what a different baby she was when she had just one bottle of formula, he realized how much better for her breastmilk was. When that one bottle of formula turned into a vicious cycle, effectively ruining my milk supply... when I had to pump even more... anyway, the way things turned out were not at all what either of us had planned or even suspected ahead of time.

Try to educate your partner, but ultimitely it is your decision to make. Try to tell him how much more work pumping and bottle feeding would be. Try to tell him about nipple preference/confusion and latching problems because bottle nipples are so very different from flesh nipples. Try to tell him how milk supply is regulated by baby nursing, and that pumps are not as good at stimulating supply, or at emptying the breast of milk. Try to tell him about cracked, bleeding nipples, about plugged ducts and mastitis, about how baby's saliva signals to your body just exactly what kind of milk to make, and what antibodies to put in it. Then try to tell him about other ways fathers bond with their babies. Ease his fears and worries. Tell him baby will know he is the Daddy, and will love him unconditionally, just as much as baby loves Mommy!


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## Beeblebrox (Apr 6, 2005)

My husband never pressured me about pumping, but he did admit that he was jealous that I could experience that with our DD and he couldn't. He gets a little sad when she calms right down, after being held by him, when brought to me because she knows she's about to be fed. I think that might be the issue with your SO. Perhaps he's just feeling a bit left out of the experience. Maybe you can work out a system so that sometimes after feedings he gets to rock your DC to sleep and spend close skin to skin time. That way he's still getting that special cozy bonding experience too.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Something u could point out to him is that when the baby latches on to ur breast if they have any illness ie. a cold or virus, the saliva transmits this to the mothers body and the mothers body will in turn make antibodies to combate the illness. When u bottle feed bm they do get antibodies but it just isnt the same as if they were drinking directly from the breast. I know that my dd at around 14-15months benifited greatly from this when I caught the flu she also got it but she was not nearly as sick as me and she got better after just 3-4 days compaired to my almost 2 week battle.

Not to mention if u r like me ur body just will not let down with a pump. I tried pumping a few times just to get a freezer stash going with both my dd then again with my ds. I only expressed milk if i let myself become totally ingorged on one side that was pretty painfull and after that my breast was always sore for a few days. No matter how good the pump sometimes the milk supply will drop no matter how much u pump. Just something to think about.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

It sounds to me that he's just worried about not being able to bond as well with the baby. Maybe you can find other things he can do, things that are just "daddy" things (like giving a bath). For now, I'd just tell him that you want to see how things go and if you think you need a pump, you'll get one then.

I have to pump four times a day and I am really starting to dislike it. I have to pump twice at work and then two more times to keep up my supply (I have supply issues). I nurse every single chance I get! DH watches DD on Fridays while I'm at work and he will bring DD to me during lunch so I can nurse her instead of pumping! It's things like that that keep me going with the pumping.

Anyway, basically my point is I only pump because I have to. If I had a choice, I wouldn't pump at all! It's just a huge pain! Not only does it take time to actually pump, but you have to wash all the parts, and store the milk, etc. The it's like, time is in such short supply that I don't want to spend 15 min pumping just to turn around and give the baby a bottle. That 15 minutes day after day really adds up!

I think after a while, if you want a small handheld pump, you can get one then. But I don't see any point in getting on ahead of time. The only advantage I can see for owning a pump is so you can build up a freezer stash for future use. If for some reason you can't nurse, or to use when making baby food, or something unexpected comes up, it's nice to have some milk available. But it's not absolutely necessary









And you know what? You won't want to be away from your baby. You won't want him to take the baby out without you or for you to leave them for long. And if you do want to run to the store by yourself, for example, there's no need to have a bottle waiting. Just nurse before you go and you'll have a couple of hours of freedom (after the inital ultra-nursing newborn stage).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I didn't get it from my dh (he knows more and even if he didn't, he knows better!) but I got it from my mom. I just kept asking her why I should make more work for myself. She kept trying to come up with reasons, but she never made any that I couldn't shoot down...









-Angela


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

I think you are right on to refuse pumping and feeding in a bottle. It is wayyyy too much work and taking care of a newborn is enough work in and of itself. If he is feeling like he won't be able to bond perhaps you can pass along my story. Ds has never had a bottle(he is a little over a year) and has been exclusively breastfed. In fact, he refuses to take a bottle. You know who he loves, I mean absolutely adores?? His daddy! I swear, if I wasn't a food source, I'd never get to hold the kid, lol. How did he get so attached to daddy? Daddy changes diapers, bathes him, rocks him, carries him, holds him, plays with him. There are so many things that a dad can do with a baby to bond with them, that have nothing to do with feeding them. Also, you can assure him that when your baby is older and breastfeeding is well established, you'd be happy to pump a bit so you can go out and he can feed the baby while your gone







.

I have also known too many mamas who thought they would just pump instead of breastfeeding and ended up quiting well before babe was two months old. Pumping is just too much damn work to be doing it outside of having to work or go to school.

Good luck!!


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## just6fish (Feb 28, 2005)

Pumping SUCKS! (no pun intented!). I think you have a great attitude and I agree with pp about daddy giving baths. I also think it's GREAT you are able to have your work schedule flexible enought to feed your baby and not pump!


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

My ds had major latching and sucking problems and I had to pump exclusively from 4 weeks of age to nearly six months of age. Every two hours around the clock. I had two electric pumps and one hand pump. It was holy hell. Then I had to turn around and give a bottle. Or try pumping while your kid is screaming to eat. How do you hold him and give him a bottle? You don't...you stick your beautiful baby in a boppy pillow and prop the bottle and watch him eat from three feet away.








I know your dh isn't talking about pumping exclusively (I hope!), but even pumping somewhat is something you shouldn't have to do if you aren't committed for a good reason that has nothing to do with your husband's feelings of inadequacy.
Many women like to have a stash in the freezer in case they get hit by a bus or are hospitalized, etc. But many women don't.
My dh was very supportive of breastfeeding and I couldn't have kept at without his help and quiet support. But it was never his choice, so his input on what I should do was restricted to giving advice on how to accomplish my goals. Just like birthing. It's my body, my birth, my breasts, my choice. He wanted me to supply milk for his son, beyond that, he knew he had no say.
I hope that doesn't sound too cold, but that's biology.

Well, I've ranted long enough, sorry to be so harsh, I just can't imagine my dh trying to tell me what to do with my body and my breastfeeding relationship!
-Lindsay


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## InnieTurnedOuttie (Sep 19, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies and stories! I don't understand him at all on this issue. I think he has a problem with me not wanting the baby to be away from me for extended periods of time. An hour or two without mommy is enough, and breastfeeding exclusively makes it necessary for baby to stay close to me. I really think his past relationship problems are boiling over into ours because he his gf of 6 years was really pushy and wanted to be a part of EVERYthing in his life. I give him plenty of space however, but there are some things I won't budge on. One thing is baby. I try to explain to him that his feelings are important to me, but then he says he feels like he has no say... Which makes me feel uneasy because I feel like I give him plenty of say, but you need to have good reason too.
But honestly I'm wondering if this all goes beyond breastfeeding... I'm wondering if I should bring it up again and try to explain to him why it's important for me to keep baby close, and that it's part of my motherly bond?

This all reminds me of the penguin documentary movie (the name slips my mind), where the father had an equal amount of responsibility to raise baby and keep it alive. It's very much like that for humans, but modern society has changed things and men are occupied with things like football and video games so they lose some power over childrearing. For me, baby is number one and the last 7 months i've been pregnant, it has been that way. For him, he does not understand the relationship between mother and baby so he has more of a selfish appreciation of bonding with baby IMO. I could be bias... I'm going to keep thinking about it.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I do not think you should speak of breastfeeding in terms of the motherly bond. I think *that* is what is intimidating him in the first place!! I think you should explain to him in terms of how important breastfeeding is to baby, and how pumping and giving bottles, even occassionally, can create problems with breastfeeding, problems that can be very very hard to overcome. I think you should explain to him other ways fathers have of bonding with babies. *I think he should talk to other men who are the fathers of breastfed babies.* My DH is probably the #1 reason so many of our friends breastfed their babies!! Seriously. He is so good at explaining to the daddys-to-be about the importance of being supportive, how difficult breastfeeding is for some women, and how the lack of support makes it nearly impossible to nurse if they encounter any sort of other obstacles or problems.

slightly off-topic:
After my first was born, I had to learn how to step back and let DH make mistakes, as long as they weren't life-threatening. I had to let him change diapers the wrong way, and end up with poop all over the baby and himself. I had to let him change her clothes and do laundry, even if he didn't do it the way I would have done it myself. And I had to praise him constantly, tell him what a good job he was doing! It really made a huge difference once I started doing that. Before that, I was overbearing, and I was making all of the decisions, not just what to do, but how to do it as well. It was driving him insane, and we were arguing all the time because of it.


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## anastasia51 (Apr 30, 2005)

along with baths etc I think baby massage provides a great bonding experience both for both parents, it has similar elements to feeding (eye contact, touching, quite time) maybe you could all go to a class and at home that could be something he does most of the time and you leave them to it, along with sharing all the other things.

Anna


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## InnieTurnedOuttie (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*
I do not think you should speak of breastfeeding in terms of the motherly bond. I think *that* is what is intimidating him in the first place!!

Hmm... I agree with you there. Sometimes it's hard to get past how I feel personally about it, and validate it with other reasoning. But i definately will try.

Quote:

I think you should explain to him in terms of how important breastfeeding is to baby, and how pumping and giving bottles, even occassionally, can create problems with breastfeeding, problems that can be very very hard to overcome.
I did try that. He definately wants me to breast feed, but he thinks of it more in terms of "breast milk" vs. "formula", and either way, he feels that a bottle is sufficient when I feel like bottle feeding is very impersonal and just... ew.
I babysat a lot of babies, and grew up in a household with one (my niece), and actually bottle fed her ALOT, taking turns with my sisters because everyone had to pitch in to help raise her. Anyway, she grew up a happy baby, but I can't help but feel that she missed out by never being able to drink from the breast of her mother. I think it is healthy to establish a relationship where you know where to go for food (milk), and not just wondering aimlessly who will be giving you your next feeding. I feel the routien of going to mommy is natural and good. So it's hard for me to play down the bond because it's a big part of me.

Quote:

I think you should explain to him other ways fathers have of bonding with babies. *I think he should talk to other men who are the fathers of breastfed babies.*
That is part of the problem, his friends wives pumped, so he feels like I shouldn't have a problem with it. Same thing with his friend's son being circumcized. "The baby didn't cry", that doesn't mean it didn't hurt, ever heard of shock? Anyway, I'm digressing. The closer baby comes to being here, the more we realize how different issues are important to us in different ways. We are talking about everything civilly (we communicate well), but we can have such large differences of opinion, especially with this breastfeeding issue. I don't think I'm going to budge at all, yet I don't want to be overbaring and have him feel as if he doesn't have a say. But to be honest, I am not feeling that he should have a say on this particular issue. Where something like circumcision, I would allow him to do it, but ONLY after we speak to other people about it, learn the pros and cons, AND I find someone who I am willing to trust to mutilate my son's genetalia. *sigh* I'm sorry if I sound stubborn and harsh.

Quote:

My DH is probably the #1 reason so many of our friends breastfed their babies!! Seriously. He is so good at explaining to the daddys-to-be about the importance of being supportive, how difficult breastfeeding is for some women, and how the lack of support makes it nearly impossible to nurse if they encounter any sort of other obstacles or problems.
He is also encouraging of breastfeeding, but he definately does NOT understand how complex it is and how introducing foreign objects, as simple as a bottle or pacifier can throw off the whole mojo. I have decided that I myself will not try to convince him, but instead speak to our Bradley teacher and CNM about it.

Quote:

After my first was born, I had to learn how to step back and let DH make mistakes, as long as they weren't life-threatening. I had to let him change diapers the wrong way, and end up with poop all over the baby and himself.
Wow. I feel I would find it so hard to step back... my mother has told me that I need to learn to do that however. Funny thing is, DP actually had a dream that he was changing diapers and made a huge mess with poop everywhere, all on his clothes and the bed. Maybe that is an indication of some insecurities he may not be voicing? Aw. I am feeling a lot softer now in regards to these issues. I am sure it is as frustrating for him to disagree with me as it is for him.

Quote:

It really made a huge difference once I started doing that. Before that, I was overbearing, and I was making all of the decisions, not just what to do, but how to do it as well. It was driving him insane, and we were arguing all the time because of it.
Thanks for adding this. Really puts some perspective on the issue.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Is he a geeky internet type guy? He might be interseted in the dads forum on MDC here. I'm sure those guys could give him all the answers you need him to have.

This may sound trite, but he's waited 9 months for the baby, he can wait another 6 or so to feed him. Let him get smashed avocado all over him :LOL !

Btw... I would be alot more vociferous about the routine genital mutilation. He can order up cosmetic surgery on the baby, but he can't strap a pump to your chest!


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## mighty-mama (Sep 27, 2005)

My dh has been very good about the need for mom. Not trying to gloat, but I've told him, I have breast and they are for feeding. He asked if he could give a bottle, to allow me to sleep, and I explained to him that bottles are only if I'm working ( i work part time).

To be a little silly here. I told him there are things you can do that I can't. for instance pee standing up, this would make my life so much easier, but hey I can't do it, and he can breastfeed so this comment made him understand...


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm just wondering if you can convince him to defer decisions about bottles until after the baby is born...it's not like you should start pumping and giving bottles until six weeks at the very earliest...I would think by then he would understand better that he will have PLENTY of time and opportunity to bond with the baby, etc.

It's just hard to "get" this stuff in the abstract. I think it will make more sense when he's actually in the middle of it. Maybe.


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## aidansmom05 (Jul 10, 2005)

My husband wants me to pump too, for when we go out! I have done this a few times, when I was engorged, and pumping was a major pain in the a**. I have two pumps an isis, and a medula. Aidan doesn't relaly like bottles, but I had to pump for like a week to get him two bottles to stay with his grandparents for a few hours while we went out with friends. And even though we ended up only gone for a few hours I was soo engorged that i started leaking on the way back home. DH still makes coments when we go out if I am feeding teh baby like isn't that what the sling is for, or you are showing. He gets embarassed I think, I just roll my eyes at him. He still makes comments occassionally but I do not have time to clean my house completely nevermind spend part of my day that I could spend bonding with ds pumping milk. It is absurd, And it is a lot of work. I think he will get over it, if he doesn't too bad then! After all, that is your super power lol!


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InnieTurnedOuttie*
But to be honest, I am not feeling that he should have a say on this particular issue. Where something like circumcision, I would allow him to do it, but ONLY after we speak to other people about it, learn the pros and cons, AND I find someone who I am willing to trust to mutilate my son's genetalia. *sigh*

Oh man...







PLEASE go to the Case Against Circumcision forum! http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44 Read the sticky near the top, posts by mamas who regret having their sons circumcised.

He should not have a say about circumcising, either- and neither should you! Your son is the only one who should have a say about his own body parts. Please, please, please, read the Circ forum.

You have gotten lots of good advice about your problem. I'm with you- breastfeeding is Mama's job. I hope it all works out more smoothly after the baby is here... honestly though, lots of men who don't express a problem with their DP breastfeeding still have a hard time with infants. For the first few months, it can be really hard, because nature designed babies to want their mamas so much! Both of my kids' dads would get really frustrated that the baby only wants me a lot of the time (and of course, it is no picnic to be the only one who can soothe the baby either!) It gets better. Try to encourage him to have his own thing with the baby- he can be the one who always does the bath, or he can find some special hold or way of rocking, or a special song.


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## JustVanessa (Sep 7, 2005)

I have an intact baby boy who has only had 5 bottles in his whole life (with water in them). Pumping was never an issue because I couldn't do it at all. I think that your dh has to respect your wishes on that one. Once he sees the little babe at your breast he might change his mind....and he can take baby out, in 2 hour intervals








As for circ. I didn't give my hubby an option at all....I wouldn't let anyone near ds penis and he knew that from the very beginning
All I can say is find someone with a hubby who is very supportive of bfing and connect the 2 of them. He can call mine if he wants :LOL


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InnieTurnedOuttie*

Where something like circumcision, I would allow him to do it, but ONLY after we speak to other people about it, learn the pros and cons, AND I find someone who I am willing to trust to mutilate my son's genetalia. *sigh* I'm sorry if I sound stubborn and harsh.

Another voice to please not let him hack off a chunk of your son's penis. Please. Go read. Do research. There are no pros. No medical organization in the world advises routine infant circ. Please protect your son.










-Angela


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

Just my little 2 cents . . .

It was/is a royal pain in the behind to pump. First I tried with a hand pump and got nothing. The electric pump was a little better but my baby could nurse and be full in half the time it took to get a bottle! I started to try to pump because of all the pressure around me--people can be so pushy about pumping so that you can "get a break." It's appealing at first when you're completely exhausted but in reality, it doesn't really help. You have to expend _a lot_ of energy to get some milk with a pump. And maybe I waited too long to start to pump, but my baby has a really hard time with the bottle. It's just so much easier to nurse. Sure, I'd like to go and hang out without the babe sometimes but I figure when I decided to have a baby, I decided to have a baby and that means not hanging out whenever I want to; basically making sacrifices. Anyway . . . I don't think your SO is so wrong in what he's asking. My husband was desperate for a way to help me in those first few weeks when nursing was so trying. Formula was out of the question so that's why I tried the pump which, fortunately or not, did not work. It's difficult for men to find a place or feel useful in the first few months of a baby's life because they have to play second fiddle. I'd say to stick w/ your guns about not pumping but also to try to be understanding.


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## InnieTurnedOuttie (Sep 19, 2005)

On the circumcision issue...
I'm against it, and I think we should wait until later so our (possible) son can decide for himself. I have friends, ex-bfs who are circ and uncirc, but DP doesn't know any uncirc men. He just always felt like it was gross when he saw other men in the shower with uncirc. I told him they probably didn't feel weird about it. And I talked to him about the history of circimcision in america and why it "seems" so routien. He just won't budge and he sense he feels insecure in having a difference between him and his son. I told him about all the benefits of uncirc, sexually and healthwise. The only reason he feels it's so important is because he is circimcized.
I don't want to fight over it or make him feel as if he is losing some connection to his son if I don't let him do the procedure. So I told him I will allow it, but that it will have to be done in home, by someone we have been recommended to. None of that kaiser crap for an absolutely unnessesary operation...
But I definately understand the case against circ... But how to approach it without starting a fight or seeming too controlling?


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## InnieTurnedOuttie (Sep 19, 2005)

We talking about pumping again this morning but he didn't make any statement against what I was saying. So I'm gonna be hard on this issue. Thanks for all the responses ladies!


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## BusyBeeMom (May 15, 2005)

I would not discuss the issue further before DB is born. Just say something like, "Let's see how it goes." Once DB is born, IF he gives you grief, be prepared with some literature about how important it is to establish your milk supply in that first month or so.

When I was pregnant, my DH was so uptight and worried that I'd nurse in all kinds of public places, running around, breasts blazing. I got myself needlessly upset about it. He was still a bit uneasy for the first couple of months, but he's now a huge advocate for NIP and BF in general. Among other things, he sees how easy it's made HIS life! No mixing bottles in the middle of the night, no worrying about having keeping bottles cold, or bringing enough when we're out or traveling.

What I'm getting at is that his feelings may change a lot (or a little) once the reality of life with DB is here.

Good luck!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InnieTurnedOuttie*
On the circumcision issue...
I don't want to fight over it or make him feel as if he is losing some connection to his son if I don't let him do the procedure. So I told him I will allow it, but that it will have to be done in home, by someone we have been recommended to. None of that kaiser crap for an absolutely unnessesary operation...
But I definately understand the case against circ... But how to approach it without starting a fight or seeming too controlling?

Come over to the case against circ forum. Please, PLEASE do not mutilate your (possible) son in the name of protecting your marriage. Is there any other part of your children that you would consider crushing, ripping, and cutting off without anesthesia?

-Angela


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

My husband and I were raised in a country that 50-60% of males have their pinky toes chopped off.
It's done in the first few weeks of life and everyone knows that they can't really feel anything down there anyway and even if they can they won't remember it and it'll be done pretty fast. It's so much cleaner to get it taken off. You have a lower risk of pinky cancer and you won't get those nasty pinky toe nail infections. I mean, cause, kids do NOT know how to clean under that toe nail.

I've had boyfriends that had their pinkys and I just didn't see the big deal on why everyone wants it off. BUT, I'm not a guy so I wouldn't know much about it. Dh had his taken off and he wants his son to look like him. It's going to be especially important when he's teaching him how to walk. I don't really want it done, but I don't want to upset my husband or fight with him about it. I mean, it is JUST a toe, you know? Lots of people in this country have had their toe removed and I don't want him to be teased if he still has his. My neighbor didn't get her sons done when he was born and it got infected and she had to get it chopped off when he was 3. I felt so bad for him. He couldn't walk on it for a few days and he was in so much pain. I do NOT want my son to go through that, that's why it's better to do it when they're a couple days old.

It's not like taking it off really affects them that much anyway. The men that have had their toe removed later in life say that it's much different and they wished they still were intact, but I don't really believe that. Yeah, they may walk a little different and walking barefoot may not be enriching anymore, but it looks SOOO much better! That extra little toe is so ugly.

When we do get it done, we aren't going to use any anesthesia (since you can't at home anyway) because it makes the toe swell up too much and the scarring is much worse. I know our country's medical association says that it's inhumane to not use it, but again, he won't remember anyway.
The procedure takes around 15 minutes and it goes like this:
First they strap the baby down so he can't wiggle around. Then they give him this sugar pacifier to ease the pain (you know, like the chocolate sunday got me through my c-section without an epidural). Then they stick this metal blunt probe under the toe nail. Then they make a cut in the skin do they can get to the inside. They crush the skin with a couple clamps so he won't bleed to death or anything. Then they put this metal thing on top of the toe and crush the skin against it. Then they cut that off. Then they chop the bone off and sew it all up and wipe all the blood away. By that time the baby usually has gone into shock and "fallen asleep".

All we have to do it apply gauze and vasoline to it for about a week and then he'll be great! It will look so much better. Looks are everything, you know? And I want him to be just like his dad anyway. Yeah, the stats are dropping for this surgery. It's not needed, it's just for looks, but that's really important. I'm planning on getting my dd breast implants real soon so she can have the big boobs like me too. If my son is going to look like my husband after he's born, my dd is going to look like me too.


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## dlwdmw (May 27, 2005)

I would be more concerned about the circing issue then the pumping one. My dh is the bath man. He always gives the baths and he enjoys it. I always feed ds. It's my job. I think it might be a non-issue when your dc is here. I would try not to stress it until then!!!
As for circing. please please please read the case against circumcision forum.
























Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
My husband and I were raised in a country that 50-60% of males have their pinky toes chopped off.
It's done in the first few weeks of life and everyone knows that they can't really feel anything down there anyway and even if they can they won't remember it and it'll be done pretty fast. It's so much cleaner to get it taken off. You have a lower risk of pinky cancer and you won't get those nasty pinky toe nail infections. I mean, cause, kids do NOT know how to clean under that toe nail.

I've had boyfriends that had their pinkys and I just didn't see the big deal on why everyone wants it off. BUT, I'm not a guy so I wouldn't know much about it. Dh had his taken off and he wants his son to look like him. It's going to be especially important when he's teaching him how to walk. I don't really want it done, but I don't want to upset my husband or fight with him about it. I mean, it is JUST a toe, you know? Lots of people in this country have had their toe removed and I don't want him to be teased if he still has his. My neighbor didn't get her sons done when he was born and it got infected and she had to get it chopped off when he was 3. I felt so bad for him. He couldn't walk on it for a few days and he was in so much pain. I do NOT want my son to go through that, that's why it's better to do it when they're a couple days old.

It's not like taking it off really affects them that much anyway. The men that have had their toe removed later in life say that it's much different and they wished they still were intact, but I don't really believe that. Yeah, they may walk a little different and walking barefoot may not be enriching anymore, but it looks SOOO much better! That extra little toe is so ugly.

When we do get it done, we aren't going to use any anesthesia (since you can't at home anyway) because it makes the toe swell up too much and the scarring is much worse. I know our country's medical association says that it's inhumane to not use it, but again, he won't remember anyway.
The procedure takes around 15 minutes and it goes like this:
First they strap the baby down so he can't wiggle around. Then they give him this sugar pacifier to ease the pain (you know, like the chocolate sunday got me through my c-section without an epidural). Then they stick this metal blunt probe under the toe nail. Then they make a cut in the skin do they can get to the inside. They crush the skin with a couple clamps so he won't bleed to death or anything. Then they put this metal thing on top of the toe and crush the skin against it. Then they cut that off. Then they chop the bone off and sew it all up and wipe all the blood away. By that time the baby usually has gone into shock and "fallen asleep".

All we have to do it apply gauze and vasoline to it for about a week and then he'll be great! It will look so much better. Looks are everything, you know? And I want him to be just like his dad anyway. Yeah, the stats are dropping for this surgery. It's not needed, it's just for looks, but that's really important. I'm planning on getting my dd breast implants real soon so she can have the big boobs like me too. If my son is going to look like my husband after he's born, my dd is going to look like me too.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *InnieTurnedOuttie*
But I definately understand the case against circ... But how to approach it without starting a fight or seeming too controlling?

Have you guys watched those circ videos?























Some things are worth a fight! I told DH I wouldn't alter a girl's genitals to look like mine, so why should he get to alter a boys?

Almost all the boys in our son's locker rooms will be whole and unmutilated. the trend is definitely waining.


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## MrsRoss (Aug 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadkitty*
Some things are worth a fight! I told DH I wouldn't alter a girl's genitals to look like mine, so why should he get to alter a boys?

Almost all the boys in our son's locker rooms will be whole and unmutilated. the trend is definitely waining.









:

I told my dh the same thing! Of course, he still signed the consent form and our son has been circ'ed, but he realises now (too late) how wrong it was to do. I am thankful every day that in this country, unlike so many in the world, we do not routinely mutilate our little girls at birth. But my goodness, why do we do it to our little boys?

I find it incredibly ironic that the people I know who are so adamantly pro-circ'ing are men. These are the same men who complain about having average to slightly smaller than average penises as well. It seems to me that they would want to give their sons every advantage in the size department considering things like that are generally genetic!









My absolute favorite argument for circ'ing from the men with small penises (







) is 'If I had any more sensation, it would take 3 seconds!' Well, what I always tell these same men is that they wouldn't have so many problems with premature ejaculation if they had been left intact.

AND!!! IMHO, I think that the reason there are so many problems as men get older in today's society with erection dysfunction _because of_ routine circumcision.

Well, as for breast pumps, my dh wanted me to have one so that he could feed and bond with baby, but he realised a long time ago that it is just much easier to hand me our screaming ds to latch on in 10 seconds than to get up and defrost milk, put it in a bottle, make sure it's the right temp, and give it to baby, who by that time is practically purple with rage.

To the OP, your partner will learn a lot about being a parent after your baby is born. And if the two of you can afford it, you could let him buy you a small single breast pump. You may never use it but he will have some peace of mind knowing it's there.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I told DH everything you read about in the CIC forum. I talked until I was blue in the face, and nothing I said fazed him not a bit. I talked to him about the Biblical story of Abraham circumsizing himself as an old man, which he didn't know. I told him some other Abraham stories straight out of the Bible, as well, to sort of put it all in context. What finally convinced him was that I took him with me to a prenatal visit at my OB's office. I had him ask my OB his questions, since he obviously wasn't going to listen to my answers. When my doctor told him that it was not a medically necessary procedure, his exact words were "the only people who have it done either do it for religious reasons or out of ignorance," DH was finally convinced. After all that, both of our children are girls.
:LOL


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Bumping because I wonder if the OP has visited the Circ forum yet? Come, talk- there is help for you there also!


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## Crunchier (Jun 26, 2003)

About pumping and bottles--

Dh first wanted me to bottle feed in public. He was shocked that I would consider nip. I didn't really think I had an alternative. I think he would have preferred to formula feed. That conversation didn't go very far.

I got a breast pump while was pregnant. It was a crappy Evenflo, and I never actually used it, but when it arrived (from ebay) I plugged it in and tried to figure it out. Poor Dh looked nauseous and asked me not to do it at the table.









Once Ben was born, he wouldn't latch. I kept trying. the day my milk came n he got his first nursing. D had never seen a milk drunk baby, and was pretty much sold on BFing. A few days later I nursed at my WIC consultation, and I was very discrete. D and the nutritionist were both very impressed. D never gave me any crap after that.

I did get an Isis, and while Ben did not latch well, we supplimented with a dropper. It was a huge pain in the A$$. Later we tried to use an occasional bottle. Disaster.

This time around, I'm in school. Derek has asked me to please just take the baby with me. He doesn't think he could handle being left alone with a newborn and trying to feed her. He doesn't want me to pump, but just stay home until she's well into solids so he won't have to contend with milk and bottles.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsChicopea*
My husband never pressured me about pumping, but he did admit that he was jealous that I could experience that with our DD and he couldn't.









: only DS for us.

I haven't read through all the posts but wanted to add that our DS clearly did not want a bottle. And I wasn't so fond of pumping either. I did on a few occassions: to give to DH to experience, once when I went to a friend's birthday party without DS. I ended up feeding most of it to the roses.


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## roamingfamily (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lula's Mom*
Oh man...







PLEASE go to the Case Against Circumcision forum! http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44 Read the sticky near the top, posts by mamas who regret having their sons circumcised.

He should not have a say about circumcising, either- and neither should you! Your son is the only one who should have a say about his own body parts. Please, please, please, read the Circ forum.

.

My husband wanted our son circ'd because it was all he knew. He didn't end up caring enough to do some research to combat my research. lol He jumped right up in the hospital to change a diaper, I think to get a peek. He's not traumatized. lol He often referred to a "piece of skin hanging off the end of his dink" when we discussed it. In the hospital, our son went to see the ped. I told the nurse that I was coming with, that our son was not to be circed and I wanted to make sure that his foreskin was not retracted. (really no worries in our hospital, especially with this particular nurse) My husbanad later asked why I said that. He was FINALLY ready to listen to some info. I explained that the skin is attached and that it basically has to be peeled like a banana to be circed. I asked if he saw any skin just hanging there. Nope. "It's all sealed up."

So, if my Marlboro Man can come around, so can your partner.









And as far as the pumping. I agree with the PP that said to suspend a decision until the baby arrives. Your partner will *see* what the situation is. It's a lot of work to care for a newborn, you don't need to create a chore!


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## BethHG (Oct 25, 2002)

I am going on baby #4 here, and I have never successfully breastfed any of my babies beyond 9 days. This has been a major heartache for me. One of the main problems was lack of support, bad advice and ignorance. Once the babies go on any kind of bottle (at least for me), they didn't want to go back--same with nipple shields and pacifiers. This time around, it is my quest to successfully breastfeed. I did buy a pump, but that is only to help me with my engorgement.

As for the circumsizing issue. With our last baby, I had my dh research it and then had him made an informed decision. Well, he did and decided that we wouldn't have one done. Recently, my 8yo middle son (I have three boys) asked why my youngest's penis looks different--well, I had to tell him and the look on his face was horrified!!!!! I didn't matter to him that Daddy had this done to him too, he just couldnt understand why it was done to him. I apologized profusely to both him and my oldest for having this done.


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## hummingbear (Apr 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BethHG*
Recently, my 8yo middle son (I have three boys) asked why my youngest's penis looks different--well, I had to tell him and the look on his face was horrified!!!!!









:

Thanks for the courage to face your emotions and be honest with your DSs


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## middlemamma (Nov 11, 2004)

By the time your son and husband are old enough to stand around and compare what their penises look like it would be inappropriate to do so. My son is nearly 5 and showers everyday with his circed father. The difference he notices??? Dad's is bigger than his, and dad has hair.

I know you didn't ask....but it is worth a fight...and a marriage that is strong would weather the storm. And you can revel in the fact that you are stopping this horrible act in your downline with your son's generation.

What would you miss out in your life if your clitoris had been cut off at your birth? Think abou that and then save your son from the same fate.

I brought my husband who also wanted to circ a stack of research for and against when we found out I was carrying a boy. I said here is what you have to read and watch (I had videos as well) in order to be allowed a say in this decsion. He got pissed and siad I am not reading all that! And I replied then I am making the choice. And it was never discussed again. Maybe you could be much sweeter than me and ask nicely if he would read up on it at least before making a decsion. And then if he does and still wants to...then you need to cry, beg, plead, and do whatever it takes to save your son.

Let your son choose his own penises fate....seems fair enough doesn't it? You got to choose the fate of your genetalia. Why should that only be for girls?


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

WRT the circ issue....

Fortunately, my intact DH (only intact member of his family btw, don't know how he lucked out) supports keeping baby boys intact. Even if he didn't, I'd fight to the death to keep my son intact now that I know what I know now. It doesn't matter how adament my DH was about circ'ing, I'd say abosolutely not! I consider it genital mutilation and I wouldn't budge and inch on that issue.

When I had DS, I looked down at his tiny body and felt grateful I knew enough about circ'ing to say no. At the d/c class, when the nurse said several times that a circ'd baby boy needs to have vaseline put around the circ site or it could adhere to his other skin and have to be torn away *shudder*. I wanted to puke! I flashd on my nephew's newly circ'd penis when he was a newborn and wanted to cry. NOpe. Any baby boys I have will keep their foreskins.


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