# New Car, New Baby, Old Questions



## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

I'm sure you guys get these questions all the time.







But I think the experts lurk here and I would love some input.

Our 3 cars zonked out on us this winter. Yep, it sucks. Anyways, we had just started our car research when I find out I'm expecting







.

So I am wondering:

~what are some infant/bucket seats on the market that are generally considered more user friendly/safER? Any travel systems on the list? I noticed a nice graco hootsit travel system on clearance at Target but haven't done any research on it.

~what cars should we include in our search? We test drove the honda fit and found it was really NARROW. What about the aveo? Are there any other compact wagon type cars that are also carseat friendly? I liked the Mazda5 but it's a mazda....

~how would you install two seats? Currently we have DD RF in a TF in the middle. Would you put the bucket seat in the middle and the TF on the side, or both on the sides or the bigger seat in the middle???

Thanks so much for any discussion. It seems this week has been full of change.


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## Super_mommy (Nov 13, 2009)

You are the best person to decide which car suites you the most..


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

And now for some actual information









1. The two most user friendly buckets are the Graco Snugride 32/35 (NOT the 22) and the Chicco Keyfit 22/30. They're easy to install with LATCH and seatbelt, have lock-offs for the seatbelt, aren't prohibitively expensive. The Graco seat will get most kids to 18-24 months, the Keyfit will fit kids from 9-15 months. The seats will be outgrown, generally, by height before weight (except for the Keyfit22), when the child's head is 1" below the top of the plastic shell.

2. What's wrong with the Mazda? I love it, personally. It has the extra seats if you need them, with handy mini-van features. I wouldn't personally buy it because I have three kids, and you lose your trunk when you use the third row, but it's incredibly fuel efficient, has sliding doors, and car seats install like a dream in the second row. I covet one. Maybe I'll trade in my third child









3. Loaded question. If they're both rear facing, it doesn't matter where they go, although I'd put the infant in the middle. If one of them is forward facing, the least protected child should go in the most protected position (i.e, the middle). That being said, if you're looking at smaller cars, (or the Mazda 5 which has only two seats in a row), the likelihood of fitting a True Fit and and infant bucket next to each other is slim to none, and you're really perfectly fine putting both outboard.


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## EricaDoula (Apr 23, 2009)

For a car, I LOVE the scion xb, it's affordable, starts at 17k, has tons of room, and gets great mileage and It's a toyota, so it will last!


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## Melanie_7773 (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 

2. What's wrong with the Mazda?

Not sure about the OP's motivation, but...

I once owned a 2002 Mazda Protege5. I loved it. Love the styling, loved the handling, loved to drive it. We also owned a 1995 Corolla at the time, but my husband really wanted a Prius. So the plan was that when the 2005 model Prius was released (in early 2004) we would keep my Mazda and trade the Corolla. Except that when the time came, I decided to instead trade the three year old Mazda in favour of keeping the nine year old Corolla. Why? Because I'd had so many things go wrong with the Mazda in that time (rear brakes replaced, clutch/flywheel system replaced, a valve, a wheel bearing) that I decided it wasn't worth the headache, especially since my warranty was expiring. By contrast, the only non-maintenence issue we ever had with that Corolla in the thirteen years and 200,000+ kms we owned it was a minor seal replacement.

Just my experience of course, and not helped by the fact that my local Mazda service department was entirely useless. And not everyone is as sensitive to car troubles as I am - I have no patience with cars that break.

It's a shame, because there are a lot of things I love about Mazda's vehicles. But I'm not sure if I could bring myself to try them again.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

I have a Mazda 3 and I love it. BUT, thank goodness we are only having one kid or we would be in big trouble. There is no way a second rf'ing carseat would fit in my car-unless no one else wanted to ride in the car at the same time.







I have the five door HB version.

So, I would definitely recommend Mazda-I love my car, love the service, and it has been ultra-reliable.

I test drove a Toyota Matrix before deciding on the Mazda and it was ok but didn't rock my world. While being fuel efficient is more important to me than anything else I still want a car that I like you know?


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Well in the category of cars that I love we have the honda fit, the aveo, the scion, the soul, mazda5 etc.

It's just not lost on me that the mazda5 has a 4 out of 10 stars for reliability when all the other cars have at least a 7. lol!

The other thing is that somehow I thought it was 3 across for the rows and I found out it is 2 across? So would it be hard to install the seats next to each other...and of course that eliminates a child in the middle.

Well I just wish DH would come to like the idea of a minivan! I would feel better if they were both in the middle or at least not against a door (IIRC some minivans have a space between the seat and door??)

Thanks everyone


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
1. The two most user friendly buckets are the Graco Snugride 32/35 (NOT the 22)

Can you explain more about the Snugride 22? That's what we used with our daughter and are planning on using with our son (coming soon!). Is it considered unsafe or just not as user friendly? I only ask because it's all ready to go and I'd love to not have to buy another seat until I'm done with the bucket (ie, it warms up around here).


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Can you explain more about the Snugride 22? That's what we used with our daughter and are planning on using with our son (coming soon!). Is it considered unsafe or just not as user friendly? I only ask because it's all ready to go and I'd love to not have to buy another seat until I'm done with the bucket (ie, it warms up around here).


Oh gosh, no, it's perfectly safe! I didn't mean at all to imply that it wasn't









The Snugride 32/35 has a built in lock off to the base, for the seatbelt installation. It is INSANELY easy to get a good install in just a few seconds with that thing. The SR22 base can be a bit more grouchy.

Also, the Snugride 22s often come with rear-adjust tabs rather than a front-adjust harness pull, which I don't recommend, because parents uniformly don't use it correctly.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Great. Thanks for the clarification.







I'm confident in my use of the seat...and uber happy that I don't have to trek out in this crappy snowy weather for another seat!


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

I don't know much about specific cars with specific seats, but honestly, I'd just skip the bucket and go straight for another TrueFit. They're a great seat. Buckets are wayyyy overrated IMO, and while they have some limited convenience (cold weather), they do lead to the temptation to lug baby around in them far too much (put in the bucket inside the house, carried to the car, drive to coffee shop, bring baby in bucket, put baby on the floor... baby starts to fuss, rock the bucket with your foot... leave coffee shop, put bucket into stroller system, walk to park... all without ever actually touching the baby).

Not saying all bucket-users do that, but it becomes an easy slippery slope to not even realize you're sliding down... Plus all the research showing how dangerous it is to allow babies to sleep in buckets, plus how awkward and heavy they are to carry, plus they only fit the baby for a couple months anyway...

So since you're going to need to figure out how to get around the "inconvenience" of dealing with a rear-facing convertible as soon as the baby is a few months old anyway, I always say, just get used to it while they're newborns and they don't fight back yet.









If the potential issue is that a bucket would fit better in the car, that doesn't change anything. You still will need a RF convertible eventually. The TrueFit is great for that, as I'm sure you already know, with the removable top.







And it has a great infant padding system.

Anyway, that's my personal opinion on buckets if it means anything. We never used a bucket with either of my kids and never had any issues serious enough that we thought it would have been worth having.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

The infant buckets I mentioned do not last 'just a few months'. They can easily accommodate a child well into the second year if the parent desires. For the most part, you don't use them as a carrier after the child is older anyway.

I preferred the convenience of the infant bucket and found it particularly desirable in the winter time when I could use a bucket shower cap to keep my child warm. I never over-used them in the manner described, although many do.


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

Buckets that last longer than ~22lbs? Ah... is that what the 32/35 in the name means? I confess I hadn't heard of that.

I still wish they wouldn't be marketed as CARRIERS. Make it easily removable in order to simplify getting them into the seat in the winter -- sure. But not as a general default baby-carrier. Too many parents simply believe that this is how we are SUPPOSED to carry babies, rather than just another option for specific situations.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I agree that it's definitely a problem.

However, I have a feeling that a parent who is clearly a regular contributor at Mothering Dot Commune and has a vested interest in attachment parenting will probably not fall afoul of the Evil Bucket Brigade


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## tankgirl73 (Jun 10, 2007)

Heh... more than likely true.







I just like pointing out that they're not NECESSARY -- sometimes people assume that's what you're SUPPOSED to start with, whether you plan to use it as a carrier or not. A good convertible can be used from birth, and something like the TrueFit, which goes harnessed to 65lbs, can be the one and only carseat/booster you need for your child. It saves $ too.

So perhaps the original poster has a legitimate need for a bucket and will use it "responsibly", or perhaps they only were assuming they're "supposed" to need one and didn't realize they COULD just opt for a convertible from the beginning... that's what I was trying to (long-windedly and opinionatedly) address...


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I definitely agree with you there. When parents are on a budget, I recommend skipping the bucket entirely, and getting a Triumph Advance or Graco My Ride that will get them from birth to 5-6...and then 50 or so for a booster to get them through the booster years. Voila....carseats and boosters from birth to the age of 10-12, covered for under 200 dollars


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## UberMama (Feb 27, 2007)

Research www.edmunds.com to look at the cars you are debating (it's an awesome site!!).

Personally, from everything I hear from my DH's car loving friends and my BIL (who owns a Mazda after owning a Honda, so his expectations were HIGH!) - Mazda makes pretty good vehicles.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Well I've been researching Mazda5 on here and







perhaps have enough information to convince DH.

Also, I guess I went into auto-mode about the bucket seat. I definitely used it w/ DD b/c she was born in November. But this baby is due in August so I think being 3+ months before real cold hits is a good enough age to go into a regular seat. I'll just keep my eyes peeled for clearance. A MR65 or TF would be nice.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Ok well I am really







what am I missing here?

We've tested the fit, aveo, mazda5, suba outback and vibe. WTF? You can't get one carseat in, let alone two. And certainly not on the outerboard, just wedged into the middle.

And the Fit doesn't have LATCH?

So basically we can get a sedan, which I hate trunks, or we spend another 10-15k to get a minivan or SUV, which suck gas...and there'd only be the 4 of us so what a waste. And did I mention the 10-15k min. jump.

Oy I am really depressed.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
Ok well I am really







what am I missing here?

We've tested the fit, aveo, mazda5, suba outback and vibe. WTF? You can't get one carseat in, let alone two. And certainly not on the outerboard, just wedged into the middle.

And the Fit doesn't have LATCH?

So basically we can get a sedan, which I hate trunks, or we spend another 10-15k to get a minivan or SUV, which suck gas...and there'd only be the 4 of us so what a waste. And did I mention the 10-15k min. jump.

Oy I am really depressed.


You can get more than one car seat, possibly even three, with the right combination of seats in all the 3-across cars. And you definitely can put them outboard. It just takes the right seats and patience.

And the Fit most certainly has LATCH. Three top tether anchors and two dedicated sets of lower anchors on either size.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
You can get more than one car seat, possibly even three, with the right combination of seats in all the 3-across cars. And you definitely can put them outboard. It just takes the right seats and patience.

And the Fit most certainly has LATCH. Three top tether anchors and two dedicated sets of lower anchors on either size.











Ok, so let's say I have a TF and possibly a bucket like the snugride. (I heard something bad about the comfortsport so I guess nogo on that?? I have 2 of them right now).

How would you fit them into an Aveo? I brought along an evenflo bucket that's 3yrs old...just an old seat my mom still had in the house. I tried to put the TF and the EF in and they don't fit next to each other. The TF doesn't fit on the outer seat and neither of them fit unless they touched the front seats...well more like I had to jam them in, with the front seats pushed all the way up which was even uncomfortable for me at 5 4".

From what I can tell after driving the FIT, the Aveo is bigger in the back. But I'm willing to trek back out there and go on a fishing expedition again if we missed the LATCH.

Sorry, just really stressed. These cars are so skimpy! And I hate trunks and I hate SUVs...and DH hates minivans.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

It's ALL about angle. For a seat like the True Fit, if you take the head rest off and use it at the full 45 degrees of angle, you'll probably be able to fit it there without even pushing the front seat forward at all.

For an older child who doesn't need the 45 degree angle? You install the seat upright (by pushing down where the child's feet go as you tighten the belt/LATCH). Once the seat is upright, it doesn't take up near the amount of space front to back.

(as a general rule, avoid the evenflo bucket. it requires the handle to be down in the car AND requires 1.5" of clearance to the front seat, which is just not small-car friendly).


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

The Comfortsport has only a 30 pound rear facing limit, and such short top slots that most kids don't fit in it much after their second birthdays. That's why it's not recommended.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
It's ALL about angle. For a seat like the True Fit, if you take the head rest off and use it at the full 45 degrees of angle, you'll probably be able to fit it there without even pushing the front seat forward at all.

For an older child who doesn't need the 45 degree angle? You install the seat upright (by pushing down where the child's feet go as you tighten the belt/LATCH). Once the seat is upright, it doesn't take up near the amount of space front to back.

(as a general rule, avoid the evenflo bucket. it requires the handle to be down in the car AND requires 1.5" of clearance to the front seat, which is just not small-car friendly).

I promise I'll avoid the evenflo!

But we can't take the headrest off...DD is past 22lbs. (Heck, now I see we can't use the CS either b/c they only RF to 30lbs so oh well).

Thanks on Monday I will try out this angle thing!!!

(is the LATCH zippered in the FIT? Or hidden somewhere for when you fold the seats?)


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm not sure







If you check the vehicle manual it should probably give you an idea. Otherwise, look for the little plastic buttons low on the vehicle seatback that will show you roughly where to poke around for the lower anchors.

You'll definitely be able to get a True Fit with the headrest on in more upright in any of those cars


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## MCPM (Jan 29, 2006)

I've got a Fit - bought it in August - and it definitely has LATCH. Just stick your fingers there in the back, you'll find 'em.









I love my Fit intensely, but the front-to-back depth for RFing is slightly tricky. Not enough to say don't buy the car if you like it, though. I wouldn't in any way call it a dealbreaker.

Currently we have a Britax Boulevard outboard with LATCH. (That seat is massive, was bought for an SUV, wouldn't buy it again.) And a bucket seat (leftover from previous kid) installed w/o base in the middle. With the base, it pushed on the front seats, which is a no because of airbags, so they say.

Anyway, we can still squish a passenger on the other side. It's not really comfortable, but hey, it works.

But I want to get a convertible to replace the bucket - thinking about a True Fit.


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