# Breastfeeding while driving



## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

I know I've read a lot of posts about leaning over if you're in the back seat with your baby, leaving the baby in the carseat and letting the baby nurse. I have to admit that I don't think I could physically accomplish this and have never tried. If my baby is crying to nurse while I'm in the car, we stop and take a break to nurse.

It never crossed my mind that someone might take it even further:

http://www.whiotv.com/news/18813161/detail.html

This makes absolutely no sense to me since the safety risk is so great. I see it as a lactivism-related issue because I do feel that people who do really outrageous things while nursing and then insist that it is a lactivist issue make things worse for nursing moms. This mom is talking about how she's going to feed her baby when and where her baby's hungry. That feels to me like using pretty common lactivist rhetoric in a way it was never intended to be used. I think this has the potential to affect all nursing mothers because she's been given a bit of a forum on the news (and I know this is a local web page but the link comes up in the top stories on the front page of cnn.com) and there are a lot of people who will put the Denny's mom or the Ronald McDonald House mom and this mom in the same basket.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

I just saw this on another forum and I was thinking the same as you. I really wish this woman wouldn't turn this into a breastfeeding rights issue, because its not. This is about how she's putting her child at serious risk - even a very minor collision could kill an unrestrained infant - in the front seat between the adult and the airbag, no less!







:


----------



## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

wow, ok...

1st off, props mama for nursing a 2yo!!!

but..."same difference"? really? a full grown adult and a tiny toddler do not have the same bone strength with regard to a car accident/air bag deployment. thats common sense. i mean, the car comes with all sorts of stickers warning against rear facing seats and ppl weighing less than 100#!!!

i'm surprised to see that this mama is a bit older. 14 yrs ago i was 17 with a _very_ HN newborn and yes, i drove while nursing/slinging on more than one occasion. i recall one evening in particular where i pulled over literally every few miles, got ds to sleep, put him in the carseat and within minutes he was up and screaming. i was a very inexperienced driver and was near on having a panic attack. never mind being a new mother...however, 14yrs and one more nursling later, i am horrified that i did that.

i dont think this mama should go to jail for 180 days, but i were i a judge i woul ddef force her to watch crash scene videos and talk to parents who lost kids that rode unbuckled.

best wishes to her and her family.









ETA: about using bf'ing as an excuse...the child certainly appeared old enough to be able to learn "nursing manners" ie, we dont nurse while the car is moving. here is (fill inthe blank bribe) for now and we will have nursies at home...


----------



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Not only was she breastfeeding, she was talking on her cell phone! This isn't a breastfeeding rights issue, this is an issue that this mother is being reckless and endangering her child. Definitely needs education on this matter. As a pp mentioned, even a small accident could have killed that poor child.


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I'm going to move this to Family Safety


----------



## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

OH my goodness!









I often wonder if that's what people think I'm doing when I get into the front seat of my car with my baby in a parking lot. A lot of times she doesn't nurse well while we're in a store; too much to look at! So I relax in the drivers seat and nurse and listen to the radio before I pop her in the seat and get on my way. I've gotten some sort of puzzled looks before, but anyone curious enough to watch me surely figured it out pretty fast.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

For goodness sakes, is it so hard to pull off the road?

This breaks at least 2 laws in my state, the car seat laws and the law that children under 13 cannot ride in the front. Probably also coule be prosecuted as child endangerment and wreckless driving.

NOT a breastfeeding rights issue. Breastfeeding rights only apply, IMO, when there is no added danger to the child.


----------



## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Sure she can feed her child whenever she wants - right after she pulls over!! That's just crazy.


----------



## mama*pisces (Feb 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
Not only was she breastfeeding, she was talking on her cell phone!

That's what got me too - not only was she endangering the life of her child by just having her so close to the air bag, but she was talking on the phone at the same time?!?! While driving. That's outrageous.

And then she says in the video(paraphrasing): it would have been the same thing, if I had been in an accident without her in my lap, and the airbag had been deployed, it would have been the same thing.







: WHAT? So she thinks that the airbag hitting her would be the same thing as the airbag hitting her small toddler, who was sitting that much closer to the airbag, and probably would have suffocated. Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

Boy, what a terrible, terrible idea. Endangering a child like that is never okay, and I think she should be prosecuted.


----------



## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I used to sit and nurse in the fron seat of my car in parking lots before getting back on the road and I alway sworried someone would see me getting in and think I was about to drive like that.

I have a super high needs kid when she was baby any drive lasting longer than about 10 minutes resulted in having to pull over. It was hard and stressful but not worth risking the safety of my babies life.

I nursed for two and half years in a variety of strange places and situations but I always managed to avoid it being a life risking event.


----------



## Pyrodjm (Jan 9, 2007)

At the very least CPS should be involved. She is risking her baby's life. They should take her license too. To me her judgement is just as bad as a person that drinks anddrives.


----------



## Giraffe (Feb 13, 2009)

This is actually down the road for me & there are TONS of places she could have pulled over! She also said she would take it into consideration, but may do it again! Of course an infant pinned between an adult & airbag would be no different that an adult in front of an airbag (lots of sarcasm) Grrr!!!

I agree that this is NOT a BFing Rights issue. It IS a SAFETY issue.


----------



## RoadWorkAhead (Sep 8, 2005)

I worry about getting arrested for sitting in the front seat of a running vehicle to nurse DS. (Running for A/C or to run movies for DD when travelling for her medical stuff) I can't imagine driving along nursing like that. I've done the over car seat thing for a bad case of ear popping mtns. but normally, I pull over or I choose to bring bottles of pumped milk if its a time constraint issue


----------



## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

That's completely insane.

My mil used to tell me how she'd breastfeed dh (who nursed till 18 mos) while driving. I was in shock! But that was in the 70's and laws weren't as strict now. (And ppl didn't think???)

I'm appalled. I've never driven and breastfed. That's just not safe. Hello?!


----------



## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

She said herself that she will do it again if she needs to. I have run across many people like this, and no amount of educating or ticketing will help them make a better choice. They have this "I am right and how dare you judge me" type of attitude.

She compared walking down the street to driving. I think that speaks for itself.


----------



## notjustmamie (Mar 7, 2007)

She drives with her kid in her lap?









While she's talking on her cell??









And she thinks she's making a statement about extending breastfeeding???









Wow. How on earth do you respond to such poor decision making? State-mandated parenting classes? Loss of driving privileges? Required viewing of car safety videos?

Just wow.


----------



## uumomma (Jun 10, 2007)

bad idea





















:







:


----------



## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Well, if you live in Michigan it is legal... Yes, we have a nursing exemption. So she should just move here and then she can drive and nurse whenever she likes. Because, you see, in Michigan the laws of physics don't apply if you are nursing. Your baby is clearly not going to become a projectile and fly through the window in a crash because he/she is attached to the breast and therefore safe.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

I am bothered by the fact taht she was on the phone. I think nursing while driving isn't always the best choice, but I certainly don't want laws against it. I think it should be up to each person to decide if they need to do so. It's all about weighing the risks versus the benefits. Maybe she was going very slow and for only a short while. Maybe baby was screaming and crying so hard that would have been distracting. HEr other children have to go to school. What if she didn't have anyone else to drive them? Should her kids miss school?


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
Well, if you live in Michigan it is legal











I am glad that Michigan allows people to make their own choices.


----------



## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

i will support bf'ing anywhere and anyhow but not if it involves putting the child at risk. give me a break!


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

I feel this is less a breastfeeding rights issue, than a parental rights issue. If something terrible happens to the child, then the authorities can go after the mother. Otherwise, I think the government should stay out of parent's business. I certainly wouldn't want the government dictating how I parent, ie...must vaccinate or put my children in school.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I am bothered by the fact taht she was on the phone. I think nursing while driving isn't always the best choice, but I certainly don't want laws against it. I think it should be up to each person to decide if they need to do so. It's all about weighing the risks versus the benefits. Maybe she was going very slow and for only a short while. Maybe baby was screaming and crying so hard that would have been distracting. HEr other children have to go to school. What if she didn't have anyone else to drive them? Should her kids miss school?

We're not talking about an infant though. The child in the video was clearly at least 18mo. My nephew is probably around the same age and my sister would never take him out of his seat to nurse him, even in the back seat (and I wouldn't allow it in my car either). She waits until we get to wherever we are going or we pull over if its a long trip.

Anyway, the point is, she could have brought the kid a snack - as in, one that doesn't have to operate the vehicle.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
We're not talking about an infant though. The child in the video was clearly at least 18mo. My nephew is probably around the same age and my sister would never take him out of his seat to nurse him, even in the back seat (and I wouldn't allow it in my car either). She waits until we get to wherever we are going or we pull over if its a long trip.

Anyway, the point is, she could have brought the kid a snack - as in, one that doesn't have to operate the vehicle.

I agree with your point about the kid being older. She should have brought a snack. I am thinking of my dd at 6 weeks old, who had a heart condition that made too much crying possibly unsafe for her. We still had to go to many doctors appointments. I was blessed to have someone else usually available to drive us (I could sit in the back and lean over her carseat and nurse her) but I do know that there are circumstances in people's lives that cause people to make choices that may seem crazy, but everyone has to weight the risks and benefits for themselves. I do not want the government any more in my parenting than they already are.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I feel this is less a breastfeeding rights issue, than a parental rights issue. If something terrible happens to the child, then the authorities can go after the mother. Otherwise, I think the government should stay out of parent's business. I certainly wouldn't want the government dictating how I parent, ie..._must vaccinate or put my children in school_.

I don't think you can compare those with car seat usage.

There are risks and benefits to vaccinating and risks and benefits to not vaccinating. But what are the risks of using a car seat and what are the benefits of not using a seat? Vaccines alter your child's body and never go away. Carseats don't.

And well, I've always believed that education is a parent's responsibility (whether they trusted someone else to it or not) so I'm probably biased on that one.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 
I don't think you can compare those with car seat usage.

There are risks and benefits to vaccinating and risks and benefits to not vaccinating. But what are the risks of using a car seat and what are the benefits of not using a seat? Vaccines alter your child's body and never go away. Carseats don't.

And well, I've always believed that education is a parent's responsibility (whether they trusted someone else to it or not) so I'm probably biased on that one.









The risk is of emotional harm to your child left in the car seat to cry hysterically. Or, as in my dd's case, if she was left to cry too long, her oxygen saturation levels went way down, and could cause brain damage. And not using a carseat doesn't guarantee harm. There is only harm if you are in an auotmobile accident. nak sorry


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I agree with your point about the kid being older. She should have brought a snack. I am thinking of my dd at 6 weeks old, who had a heart condition that made too much crying possibly unsafe for her. We still had to go to many doctors appointments. I was blessed to have someone else usually available to drive us (I could sit in the back and lean over her carseat and nurse her) but I do know that there are circumstances in people's lives that cause people to make choices that may seem crazy, but everyone has to weight the risks and benefits for themselves. I do not want the government any more in my parenting than they already are.

Yep, I can totally understand your situation. In this instance, there actually IS some benefit to feeding your daughter ASAP. I can see where the benefits way outweigh the risks here.

This woman didn't say anything about medical need though, all she said was "if my child is hungry, I'm going to feed my child". So in her case, I'm going to assume that the risks WAY outweigh the benefits here. Especially considering that she implied that she does it often and while on the phone, no less.


----------



## Limabean1975 (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
Well, if you live in Michigan it is legal... Yes, we have a nursing exemption. So she should just move here and then she can drive and nurse whenever she likes.

WHAAAAT? For real?


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
The risk is of emotional harm to your child left in the car seat to cry hysterically. Or, as in my dd's case, if she was left to cry too long, her oxygen saturation levels went way down, and could cause brain damage. And not using a carseat doesn't guarantee harm. There is only harm if you are in an auotmobile accident. nak sorry

She still could have pulled over. And like I said, this isn't just about a mom needing to BF. She was also on the phone while her child was out of her seat, which just screams negligent to me. She obviously wasn't even thinking about the risks.

And I know not using a seat doesn't guarantee harm! I totally agree there because I hate when people use the same reasoning for NOT using one ("I never used a seat and I'm okay") but if you never used a seat and never got into an accident, of course you'd be okay.







And again, if you are on the phone, driving, and nursing all at once, I would think you'd be more likely to cause an accident than anyone else. So this is different than you sitting in the back seat nursing your babe that needs to be nursed NOW, kwim?


----------



## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I agree with your point about the kid being older. She should have brought a snack. I am thinking of my dd at 6 weeks old, who had a heart condition that made too much crying possibly unsafe for her. We still had to go to many doctors appointments. I was blessed to have someone else usually available to drive us (I could sit in the back and lean over her carseat and nurse her) but I do know that there are circumstances in people's lives that cause people to make choices that may seem crazy, but everyone has to weight the risks and benefits for themselves. I do not want the government any more in my parenting than they already are.

I have been in the same position, my son was born with a heart defect. I would pull over or stay at my appointments longer to appease him so we could leave. The hospital had a very nice courtyard where I could sit and nurse him while I read.

Driving while nursing isn't safe at all. The danger is blunt force trauma from the air bag. It is a well-known *fact* that most accidents occur close to home.

We do have to measure and weigh parenting choices and consider safety.

I wouldn't be here at all to even be posting this if it wasn't for a seatbelt.

I certainly did not plan for another driver to fall asleep at the wheel and crash into me in the middle of a saturday afternoon and had I been nursing my child would be dead.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
I wouldn't be here at all to even be posting this if it wasn't for a seatbelt.









Me neither!







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
I certainly did not plan for another driver to fall asleep at the wheel and crash into me in the middle of a saturday afternoon.

Yep, and I didn't plan for someone to take a chance and pull out into an intersection even though his window's were fogged up.







Luckily for me, it was way pre-baby (I was 17) but they had a baby in their backseat - in a car seat, but installed improperly.







I had jumped out of my car and ran to theirs because I could see the guy was covered in blood. The mom asked me to get the baby and when I opened the back door, his seat was tipped completely over. He was okay though and bet that if he wasn't in a seat at all, he'd probably have looked more like his dad did, or worse. Anyway that incident is one of the many reasons I'm so nuts about car seats.


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 









I am glad that Michigan allows people to make their own choices.

I'm not following here - how is it a good thing that a woman can legally breastfeed her child while operating a motor vehicle with her child's head just millimeters from an extremely powerful airbag


----------



## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urchin_grey* 

Yep, and I didn't plan for someone to take a chance and pull out into an intersection even though his window's were fogged up.







Luckily for me, it was way pre-baby (I was 17) but they had a baby in their backseat - a car seat, but installed improperly.







I had jumped out of my car and ran to theirs because I could see the guy was covered in blood. The mom asked me to get the baby and when I opened the back door, his seat was tipped completely over. He was okay though and bet that if he wasn't in a seat at all, he'd probably have looked more like his dad did, or worse. Anyway that incident is one of the many reasons I'm so nuts about car seats.


Yep, me too.

I am also very stringent about seatbelts to EVERYYOOONNNEEE. Dd and I were in the car with my dad once and he hadn't bucked. Abi and I had a long conversation about how much she is going to miss her poppa because he won't wear a seatbelt.

He was irritated at the manipulation but he buckled.


----------



## mama2beans (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
The risk is of emotional harm to your child left in the car seat to cry hysterically. Or, as in my dd's case, if she was left to cry too long, her oxygen saturation levels went way down, and could cause brain damage. And not using a carseat doesn't guarantee harm. There is only harm if you are in an auotmobile accident. nak sorry

So what you're really saying is her need to be on time is more important then the safety of her child. Instead of stopping the vehicle and unbuckling the child in the safety of a stopped car to nurse because of hysterical crying or medical necessity or whatever, the need to be on time was more important, so the childs safety can be compromised in order to nurse and drive.

I don't think so.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I'm not following here - how is it a good thing that a woman can legally breastfeed her child while operating a motor vehicle with her child's head just millimeters from an extremely powerful airbag

I don't get it either. I know people are all for parental choice (and I am too), but it goes both ways, ya know? Should we just abolish all car seat laws? Stop fighting to outlaw RIC? Give parents the go ahead to beat their children? Give children back to druggies that don't feed them? There is parental choice, but then there is also the rights of the child. And it is a child's right to be safe while in a vehicle driving down a public street. Because I mean, if you wanna get that technical - it may be her car and her child, but that highway she was on doesn't belong to her.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

So... I'm wondering how she was caught exactly. I mean, the speed of a car and the angles makes it seem really unlikely to me that someone could have even seen her nursing if she were on the road. I wonder if she was NOT driving but was idling in the parking lot of the kids school or something? Stopped, brake on, engine running. I could see nursing in that situation, though I don't think I have. And I could see it being thought legally to be "driving" because the car is on. I just read the article though, is there a video or more info somewhere?


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
So... I'm wondering how she was caught exactly. I mean, the speed of a car and the angles makes it seem really unlikely to me that someone could have even seen her nursing if she were on the road. I wonder if she was NOT driving but was idling in the parking lot of the kids school or something? Stopped, brake on, engine running. I could see nursing in that situation, though I don't think I have. And I could see it being thought legally to be "driving" because the car is on. I just read the article though, is there a video or more info somewhere?

The video I just watched said that someone saw her on the road and called 911. They also claimed that the child's head was ON the steering wheel, so I can imagine it wouldn't be too hard to see a child there when driving along side.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Ah, yeah, I just saw the video. It's really weird IMO. How would you get the kid out of the seat, or back into the seat while driving? Did she ask another child to get her in and out of the seat? Did she start out with the kid on her lap and figured they weren't going far? I think that little girl is about DS age, 16 months, not 2; I don't imagine she could do the straps herself.


----------



## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EviesMom* 
Ah, yeah, I just saw the video. It's really weird IMO. How would you get the kid out of the seat, or back into the seat while driving? Did she ask another child to get her in and out of the seat? Did she start out with the kid on her lap and figured they weren't going far? I think that little girl is about DS age, 16 months, not 2; *I don't imagine she could do the straps herself*.

I seriously doubt it. My nephew is 18mo and he can't even get IN the seat properly by himself, much less get the straps around his arms and buckle or unbuckle. Hell, my almost 4yo can't even do that and he has the same seat as my nephew.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
I have been in the same position, my son was born with a heart defect. I would pull over or stay at my appointments longer to appease him so we could leave. The hospital had a very nice courtyard where I could sit and nurse him while I read.

Driving while nursing isn't safe at all. The danger is blunt force trauma from the air bag. It is a well-known *fact* that most accidents occur close to home.

We do have to measure and weigh parenting choices and consider safety.

I wouldn't be here at all to even be posting this if it wasn't for a seatbelt.

I certainly did not plan for another driver to fall asleep at the wheel and crash into me in the middle of a saturday afternoon and had I been nursing my child would be dead.


abi







I'm glad you're here









My point was more that sometimesyou NEED to get somewhere and still comfort your baby. This woman sounded like she could have made a diffeerent choice. I just dont' want my choices legislated away. Like I said, I nursed my daughter many times in the back of the car when my husband or mom was driving. If I needed to go pick up a prescription, ie insulin or something and I didn't have anyone to turn to for help and i had to take my daughter to the store with me, I may consider driving and nursing her (before her repair and if she were hysterical). I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be ticketed or whatever for making that choice, ESPECIALLY if no harm came from that choice.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I'm not following here - how is it a good thing that a woman can legally breastfeed her child while operating a motor vehicle with her child's head just millimeters from an extremely powerful airbag

The "good thing" is that the government is not micromanaging our lives or parenting our children for us.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama2beans* 
So what you're really saying is her need to be on time is more important then the safety of her child. Instead of stopping the vehicle and unbuckling the child in the safety of a stopped car to nurse because of hysterical crying or medical necessity or whatever, the need to be on time was more important, so the childs safety can be compromised in order to nurse and drive.

I don't think so.


That is not what I said. I have had children who cry in ther carseats no matter what. For my daughter who was born with a CHD that crying could cause her brain damage. There were actually times i HAD to travel with her in the car. If I didn't have someone to chauffeur me and she was hysterical, then I might make the choice to nurse her while driving. I didn't say anything about her need to be on time being more important than the safety of her child. Not using a carseat is NOT unsafe, unless you're in a car accident. Are you in a car accident EVERY time you drive? We all make choices that are POTENTIALLY unsafe EVERY day. Crossing the street. Vaxing or not. Driving _even while in a carseat_ is risky.

I dont' want the government telling me what I can or cannot do with my own person or my children.


----------



## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

I dont' want the government telling me what I can or cannot do with my own person or my children.
Except in this case your child would probably die because of your not using a car seat. Not all gov't regulations are bad.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Except in this case your child would probably die because of your not using a car seat. Not all gov't regulations are bad.


Actually, my child would probably NOT die (not being in a car seat is not a death sentence. ONLY if you are in an accident - which most people are NOT). How many times do you drive a year without getting in an accident? I haven't been in an car accident in several years. I drive EVERY day.


----------



## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Except in this case your child would probably die because of your not using a car seat. Not all gov't regulations are bad.

Well, let's be realisitic here. I'm a proponent of mandatory car seat laws myself, but no, her child will not probably die because of not using a car seat. If I had never been in a car seat as a child, I (and most other people) would still be alive.

Probably, everyone will be fine. Because, probably, they won't get in a car accident.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *betsyj* 
Except in this case your child would probably die because of your not using a car seat. Not all gov't regulations are bad.


Should VBAC be outlawed because the POTENTIAL for harm is there? Or not even VBAC, what about just vaginal birth in general? Would you want the government to say, "Vaginal birth is POTENTIALLY life threatening, therefore no more vaginal birth"?


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 
Well, let's be realisitic here. I'm a proponent of mandatory car seat laws myself, but no, her child will not probably die because of not using a car seat. If I had never been in a car seat as a child, I (and most other people) would still be alive.

Probably, everyone will be fine. Because, probably, they won't get in a car accident.


Thank you for saying more clearly than I


----------



## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

FTR, it is now illegal in Michigan to remove a child from a car seat to nurse. When Gov Granholm signed the booster seat law last year, they also removed that article.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
FTR, it is now illegal in Michigan to remove a child from a car seat to nurse. When Gov Granholm signed the booster seat law last year, they also removed that article.











Just what we need...more micromanagement of our lives by big brother.

Is that even for passengers?

Sec. 626d. A person shall not breast-feed a child while operating a motor vehicle on a public highway. A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.

(2) *This section does not apply to any child being nursed by a passenger in a motor vehicle.*

https://legislature.mi.gov/documents...3-SIB-0728.htm


----------



## Giraffe (Feb 13, 2009)

FTR it is a very high traffic area with 2 lanes going each way & a center turn lane. There are tons of lights, side streets & plenty of congestion any time of day. The speed limit is 35, but drivers routinely go 40-45. There's tons of opportunity for accidents. I've nearly been hit plenty of time through no fault of my own. I think they might have finished construction, but when lanes were shut down it was even worse.

Sometimes there have to be laws to protect innocent children from people incapable of making very serious decisions. She doesn't think the airbag hitting the baby would be any different than hitting her. That shows that she is indeed ignorant about car safety.


----------



## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

What about the rest of us? She's got a squirming child attached to her breast right by the steering wheel.

How many times have you seen someone with a dog in their lap while they are driving?

This type of behavior is not only dangerous if you get in an accident, it can cause the driver (with dog/child/phone) to have an accident.

This woman is behaving very selfishly. I'm not ok sharing the road with someone who's obviously unable to handle the very serious PRIVLEDGE/RESPONSIBILITY (not right) of operating a motor vehicle.

People and cell phones are bad enough, let's add in a two year old right on the steering wheel and totally tempt fate.

Should 100% be illegal. Has nothing to do with parenting choices or breastfeeding.

There is only one safe thing to be doing while you're driving.....driving. We all do little things here and there, drink a coffee, pop a piece of gum in our mouths, or change the radio station. Something alive with his/her own mind like a child on a lap while driving is insane. No excuse.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
What about the rest of us? She's got a squirming child attached to her breast right by the steering wheel.

How many times have you seen someone with a dog in their lap while they are driving?

This type of behavior is not only dangerous if you get in an accident, it can cause the driver (with dog/child/phone) to have an accident.

This woman is behaving very selfishly. I'm not ok sharing the road with someone who's obviously unable to handle the very serious PRIVLEDGE/RESPONSIBILITY (not right) of operating a motor vehicle.

People and cell phones are bad enough, let's add in a two year old right on the steering wheel and totally tempt fate.

Should 100% be illegal. Has nothing to do with parenting choices or breastfeeding.

There is only one safe thing to be doing while you're driving.....driving. We all do little things here and there, drink a coffee, pop a piece of gum in our mouths, or change the radio station. Something alive with his/her own mind like a child on a lap while driving is insane. No excuse.

then make doing ANYthing while driving illegal. Eating nachos from taco bell is dangerous while driving. Should that be illegal? Changing the radio station is dangerous.


----------



## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
then make doing ANYthing while driving illegal. Eating nachos from taco bell is dangerous while driving. Should that be illegal? Changing the radio station is dangerous.


Tacos can't bite your nipple or kick the steering wheel or pitch a fit.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Tacos can't bite your nipple or kick the steering wheel or pitch a fit.

My point is, ALL sorts of things can distract a driver. Should they all be outlawed? Should pets not be allowed in a car? Because they can jump on the driver. Should kids not be allowed, because they can screech and surprise the driver? Should hot food not be allowed, because it can burn the drivers toungue, or fall in the driver's lap, causing the driver to look down. Should mothers - in law not be allowed, because they can be annoying and passive aggressive, wait, I digress....


----------



## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Actually a friend of mine recently had a hard taco shell gash his esophagus while driving. We dressed him down for eating hard food while driving.


----------



## Giraffe (Feb 13, 2009)

So I could agree on the MIL provision. Mine isn't allowed in my car...lol


----------



## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

What I meant was if you were in an accident and holding your baby he would probably die, or at the very least be seriously injured. By your reasoning people can drive drunk with their children in the car as well. Is that ok?

There is no excuse for not keeping your child in a car seat. None. And if you don't you are irresponsible and deserve to be ticketed.

Children unbuckled in cars is a known danger to their health.

And saying then make everything illegal is unworkable and unrealistic. Of course you can not legislate against every stupid thing people do while driving. Reasonable people pick the most dangerous things and make laws for that. And making children ride in car seats is one of those laws.


----------



## PoetryLover (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
What about the rest of us? She's got a squirming child attached to her breast right by the steering wheel.

How many times have you seen someone with a dog in their lap while they are driving?

This type of behavior is not only dangerous if you get in an accident, it can cause the driver (with dog/child/phone) to have an accident.

This woman is behaving very selfishly. I'm not ok sharing the road with someone who's obviously unable to handle the very serious PRIVLEDGE/RESPONSIBILITY (not right) of operating a motor vehicle.

People and cell phones are bad enough, let's add in a two year old right on the steering wheel and totally tempt fate.

Should 100% be illegal. Has nothing to do with parenting choices or breastfeeding.

There is only one safe thing to be doing while you're driving.....driving. We all do little things here and there, drink a coffee, pop a piece of gum in our mouths, or change the radio station. Something alive with his/her own mind like a child on a lap while driving is insane. No excuse.

I agree. Also, one person's rights end where another's begin. Other people (and one's own child) have the right to be safe.


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
My point is, ALL sorts of things can distract a driver. Should they all be outlawed? Should pets not be allowed in a car? Because they can jump on the driver. Should kids not be allowed, because they can screech and surprise the driver? Should hot food not be allowed, because it can burn the drivers toungue, or fall in the driver's lap, causing the driver to look down. Should mothers - in law not be allowed, because they can be annoying and passive aggressive, wait, I digress....

No. But it should be illegal to drive whilst nursing.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
No. But it should be illegal to drive whilst nursing.


Just what we need - more government interference. Let people use their own judgement. Just like we expect in matters relating to birth and medical care.


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
One is not in an accident EVERY time one drives. That is my point. And actually, there are lots of things that are distracting to a driver. Why is making all of those things illegal "dumb"??? The laws should be something like "unable to drive safely", then there wouldn't need to be a law for "every single thing". If soemone is eating, talking on the phone or breastfeeding, while still able to drive safely, then they should be left alone.

The reason laws become more specific is that it saves a lot of court time. That's why we have such things as specific speed limits and fines which vary in amount according to the severity of the infraction. Statistics show that there are certain specific speeds at which one can navigate safely. This law applies to all...from nascar racers to 45 yr old business people.


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
Just what we need - more government interference. Let people use their own judgement. Just like we expect in matters relating to birth and medical care.

I, for one, am pretty glad there are traffic laws in existence.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mermaidmama* 
If I am on my way to the pharmacy for my meds and the baby starts crying for a nursing........I'D PULL THE CAR OVER AND NURSE. IT IS THAT EASY. And yet.....some people are to lazy and would rather put their child (and other drivers) at risk. And yes, we do things all the time that are risky. BUT that is no reason to take up it up a notch, not when it involves others lives. Seriously, give me a break.

And I am telling you, I have had babies that scream EVERY time they were in the car. Whether they had just been fed/changed/rocked etc. The minute they were put back in the carseat, they screamed. I was lucky enough to have a husband and a mother around to chauffuer me most days. But, as I stated above with my daughter, if I didn't have them and I HAD to go somewhere, like the doctors, I could not let her cry. It was actually physically bad for her. Thankfully I had other options. Not everyone does. And I say if one can get from point a to point b safely then it's noone else's business how they do it.


----------



## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
One is not in an accident EVERY time one drives. That is my point. And actually, there are lots of things that are distracting to a driver. Why is making all of those things illegal "dumb"??? The laws should be something like "unable to drive safely", then there wouldn't need to be a law for "every single thing". If soemone is eating, talking on the phone or breastfeeding, while still able to drive safely, then they should be left alone.

Alright, I have to say that such a law would seem to solve things. I couldn't help feeling this way when cellphones were being outlawed...heck I drive with a cellphone more safely than tons of other people who aren't using cells...I've seen people undressing and dressing, eating, drawing/writing, reading, craning their head to change the channel/watch the screen in the minivan, etc. But supposedly cells are bad and should be outlawed.

It should be all or nothing.

And just think if it was nothing...Darwinism at its best!


----------



## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
And I am telling you, I have had babies that scream EVERY time they were in the car. Whether they had just been fed/changed/rocked etc. The minute they were put back in the carseat, they screamed. I was lucky enough to have a husband and a mother around to chauffuer me most days. But, as I stated above with my daughter, if I didn't have them and I HAD to go somewhere, like the doctors, I could not let her cry. It was actually physically bad for her. Thankfully I had other options. Not everyone does. And I say if one can get from point a to point b *safely* then it's noone else's business how they do it.









: "Safely"= the rub. It just isn't _safe_ to drive, talk on the phone, and nurse a baby all at the same time.


----------



## carlylovesthesims2 (Mar 22, 2007)

its not about you vbactivist its about everybody on the road you never know when someone will suddenly pull out in front of you or have a heart attack anything breatfeeding a toddler in the lowest prority in a car IMO a car is a dangerous weapon the biggest cause of accidents here is teenagers bending down to pick up their cds or cellphones


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 







: "Safely"= the rub. It just isn't _safe_ to drive, talk on the phone, and nurse a baby all at the same time.


if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.


----------



## carlylovesthesims2 (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.

but if she doesnt and she crashes and kills her baby or another person or child thats called murder


----------



## ginadc (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:

if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.
So driving drunk is safe? Because I'm sure there are a lot of drunk drivers out there who haven't yet gotten into an accident and injured or killed someone. So it must be safe "for that person" -- right?


----------



## Katzchen (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.

By that logic it would mean that playing Russian roulette is safe so long as no one gets hurt. I fail to understand how ignoring the possibility of harm can make something safe.


----------



## Daphneduck (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.

Really? Last weekend my dh and I woke up at 2am to our neighbor, who lives across the street, trying to unlock our front door. Turns out that he was drunk and had driven 12 miles to get home, so drunk that he couldnt even recognize that he was trying to get into the wrong house. Was it safe, just because he made it here without killing anyone?
I am just shocked that there is a person *on the face of the Earth* that could in any way defend this. I hope that woman goes to jail for 180 days and I hope that she isnt so stupid to actually do it again.


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Hi! I have removed several posts that were in violation of the UA. Please realize that further User Agreement violations will result in the thread's permanent removal or closure. In an effort to keep the thread accessible, please be cautious when you post and PM me with any questions or concerns.


----------



## kalimay (May 25, 2005)

"Children unbuckled in cars is a known danger to their health."

I just wanted to point out that the same could be said for children who are riding buckled in cars. Cars are dangerous.


----------



## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kalimay* 
"Children unbuckled in cars is a known danger to their health."

I just wanted to point out that the same could be said for children who are riding buckled in cars. Cars are dangerous.

yes, cars are potentially dangerous. Riding in carseats is known to reduce the risks associated with car accidents.


----------



## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm glad she's being punished, but I don't think it's harsh enough, honestly. It's time that people start learning that it is wrong to do things like this. When my 2 year old was little, we lived about 30 minutes from my parents and I had to pull over at least once to nurse her every time. It sucked, and there have been many times where I thought it would be nice if it was safe to hold and nurse my baby while driving, but it's NOT! Not obeying even the child safety laws that our gov't has laid out for us is child endangerment. I won't hold people to the ERF/ extended harnessing because it's not as well-known, but how do you not know it's wrong to remove your child from their carseat in a moving vehicle? Maybe if punishments got a little harsher, people would be a little more cautious. Or maybe not, but there has to be a punishment for endangering the life of a minor in such a precarious way. I'm all for GD, but that's for my child, not the gov't.


----------



## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
abi







I'm glad you're here









My point was more that sometimesyou NEED to get somewhere and still comfort your baby. This woman sounded like she could have made a diffeerent choice. I just dont' want my choices legislated away. Like I said, I nursed my daughter many times in the back of the car when my husband or mom was driving. If I needed to go pick up a prescription, ie insulin or something and I didn't have anyone to turn to for help and i had to take my daughter to the store with me, I may consider driving and nursing her (before her repair and if she were hysterical). *I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be ticketed or whatever for making that choice, ESPECIALLY if no harm came from that choice*.

So basically what you're saying is that it's no biggie until the kid dies? It would be much cooler to just prevent it.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Katzchen* 
By that logic it would mean that playing Russian roulette is safe so long as no one gets hurt. I fail to understand how ignoring the possibility of harm can make something safe.

People ignore the possibilty of harm EVERY time they get into a motor vehicle, car seat or not. Cars are dangerous. Screaming babies can be too.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daphneduck* 
Really? Last weekend my dh and I woke up at 2am to our neighbor, who lives across the street, trying to unlock our front door. Turns out that he was drunk and had driven 12 miles to get home, so drunk that he couldnt even recognize that he was trying to get into the wrong house. Was it safe, just because he made it here without killing anyone?
I am just shocked that there is a person *on the face of the Earth* that could in any way defend this. I hope that woman goes to jail for 180 days and I hope that she isnt so stupid to actually do it again.

I really hope she doesn't face jailtime. Yes, she made a (probably) bad choice. But noone was harmed. So does she really need to be sepearted from her children for 9 months??


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
So basically what you're saying is that it's no biggie until the kid dies? It would be much cooler to just prevent it.

No. What I'm saying is I don't want the govenment micromanaging my life or my parenting. Should homebirth be illegal because a baby might die being born at home?

My point is, we all make choices concerning our children that not everyone would agree with. I just want to be free to make those choices for myself. I don't care what other people do.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
yes, cars are potentially dangerous. Riding in carseats is known to reduce the risks associated with car accidents.


And not riding in cars is know to reduce car accidents. Should the government outlaw auotmobile travel, because it's dangerous?

Why is one choice okay and not the other? I just don't want anyoen elsxe making my choices for me. Everyone has to weigh the ricks versus the benefits for themselves. Driving versus walking, living versus staying holed up in your house....


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodheartedmama* 
I'm glad she's being punished, but I don't think it's harsh enough, honestly. It's time that people start learning that it is wrong to do things like this. When my 2 year old was little, we lived about 30 minutes from my parents and I had to pull over at least once to nurse her every time. It sucked, and there have been many times where I thought it would be nice if it was safe to hold and nurse my baby while driving, but it's NOT! Not obeying even the child safety laws that our gov't has laid out for us is child endangerment. I won't hold people to the ERF/ extended harnessing because it's not as well-known, but how do you not know it's wrong to remove your child from their carseat in a moving vehicle? Maybe if punishments got a little harsher, people would be a little more cautious. Or maybe not, but there has to be a punishment for endangering the life of a minor in such a precarious way. I'm all for GD, but that's for my child, not the gov't.

some people consider not vaxxing/homebirthing/vbacing to be endangering the life of a child. Should the government outlaw all of that?


----------



## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
I really hope she doesn't face jailtime. Yes, she made a (probably) bad choice. But noone was harmed. So does she really need to be sepearted from her children for 9 months??

Would you feel different if the offense was 'drinking and driving' instead of 'breastfeeding and driving'?


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
Would you feel different if the offense was 'drinking and driving' instead of 'breastfeeding and driving'?

Probably - because that has nothing to do with comforting a baby.


----------



## sillygrl (Feb 10, 2008)

Eh, ya know what? It's dangerous to walk down a street with a kid. I choose to wear my toddler down a busy street to help reduce that danger. When the tornado sirens go off, I choose to take my kids to the safest place in my house. In the car, I choose to buckle my kids in their carseats and I choose to wear a seatbelt because if I am in an accident, that's the safest place for them to be. I've never been in a wreck, but unfortunately, I can't predict when and if I'll ever be in one, and chances are, I'll likely be in at least one. I also don't know if my kids will be in the vehicle with me or not, but because I don't know if that will happen today or next year, I have decided to take precautions. A child's head on the steering wheel is not safe. I shudder to think what would happen if the airbag went off.

Bottom line, nursing or not, there are child restraint laws. I'd feel the same if the child was nursing or if the child was sitting unrestrained in the front seat. I think the nursing is just an excuse and I don't buy it. I and the majority of other breastfeeding moms I know somehow figured it out.


----------



## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
if someone gets to their destination without an accident, then I would say it IS safe, for that person.

I've know a bunch of people who have driven WELL over the legal BAL...they'll flat out admit they were completely drunk. Not buzzed but sloppy drunk. And they drove from Point A to Point B on more than one occasion without hurting anyone or themselves, does that mean that my friends should get a 'license' to drive drunk?









Out of all the people I've known to drive drunk only my cousin killed someone...and it was NOT his first time driving drunk, in fact it was probably his 50th time driving drunk. And the night he killed someone his BAL was nearly half what it was when he got pulled over for DUI several years ago.

The fact that she didn't kill herself or her children THIS time only means that she got dang lucky. It has nothing to do with her driving abilities.

I had a baby who screamed every time he was put in his car seat. He once cried the whole way from the mall to our home, despite me pulling over every chance I could safely and nursing him to sleep. As soon as I was in the front seat he woke up and started crying. This whole stop, nurse, drive turned a 45 minute trip into a 3 hour ordeal.

She got dang lucky...


----------



## Ackray (Feb 11, 2004)

Quote:

Darwinism at its best!








This topic made me think of the Darwin Awards as well.







:

I have pumped while driving, but I can't imagine having a baby on my boob, between me and the airbag, while I gabbed on the phone. Was she smoking a cigarette too? I'm glad nothing tragic happened to this woman or her baby. If people don't have the common sense NOT to breastfeed while operating a motor vehicle, then there needs to be a law against it.


----------



## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamesMama* 
I've know a bunch of people who have driven WELL over the legal BOA...they'll flat out admit they were completely drunk. Not buzzed but sloppy drunk. And they drove from Point A to Point B on more than one occasion without hurting anyone or themselves, does that mean that my friends should get a 'license' to drive drunk?









Out of all the people I've known to drive drunk only my cousin killed someone...and it was NOT his first time driving drunk, in fact it was probably his 50th time driving drunk. And the night he killed someone his BOA was nearly half what it was when he got pulled over for DUI several years ago.

The fact that she didn't kill herself or her children THIS time only means that she got dang lucky. It has nothing to do with her driving abilities.

I had a baby who screamed every time he was put in his car seat. He once cried the whole way from the mall to our home, despite me pulling over every chance I could safely and nursing him to sleep. As soon as I was in the front seat he woke up and started crying. This whole stop, nurse, drive turned a 45 minute trip into a 3 hour ordeal.

She got dang lucky...

I'm not defending the woman in the op - I am saying I don't want the government micromanaging my parenting.


----------



## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

Quote:

I'm not defending the woman in the op - I am saying I don't want the government micromanaging my parenting.
I guess I am fuzzy on what exactly your point is then. You have spent six pages telling us the woman is free to make her own decision regarding nursing with her baby's head next to the steering wheel all in the name of not being micromanaged by the government.

So if you are not defending her choice to make such a decision what is it exactly you are defending?

Because if you are saying the government has no right to "micromanage" us in such decisions then this woman was fine making the decision to nurse while driving. Right?


----------



## *Karen* (Jul 28, 2006)

Part of parenting is time management. If she knew that her baby always nursed at that time, and that her other kids needed to get to school at that time, then she should have planned accordingly. This specific incident is not about emotional distress to the toddler, it is about time management. Either make time to nurse before you leave, leave earlier so you can stop to nurse, or pack a snack and nurse when you get there. Nursing while driving is never ever ever ever ok. Just because she didn't wreck this time doesn't mean she won't next time.


----------



## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
FTR, it is now illegal in Michigan to remove a child from a car seat to nurse. When Gov Granholm signed the booster seat law last year, they also removed that article.

No, they did not. It was decided that it was not the right time to pursue both pieces of legislation. I hope that this woman's irresponsible decision will help move some action on this issue!

I STRONGLY disagree with any reference to the idea that the perceived danger of homebirthing, etc. is in anyway comparable to the REAL danger of driving with your child unrestrained in anyway, let alone when you are breastfeeding and driving.

Car crashes are the leading cause of death for everyone ages 1 to 44. 16 month old children do not have the ability to decide how to keep themselves safe. Mandatory child passenger safety laws help keep them safe when parents are unable, unwilling or uninformed of their responsibility to prevent their children from harm. The same data is not true with homebirths, or non-vaccination.

I can somewhat understand the argument about say, motorcycle helmet laws, being about choice. Because they are adults, making adult decisions. Children, who don't get to make choices about their safety, deserve to be protected by our laws. That is part of society, protecting those who can't protect themselves. Driving with unrestrained children, no matter what you are doing or where you are going, is child endangerment. Period.


----------

