# No, you may NOT feel up my child!



## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

I fly a lot. I fly with my two children a lot. To visit far away friends and family.

I *always* am singled out for "special treatment" with airport security. I get to go through a special line. I get to take my shoes off, I get treated to a "wanding", I am searched and my bags are pawn through. I am treated like a criminal and a threat to my country, but I have always handled it with grace.

Until I was told that in order to board the flight I really needed to use and had already paid for - I had to agree to have my son patted down and frisked.

I am used to the wand and cursory pat down. I am used to having my pockets and bags rifled.

But this last time I was informed that the security officer would be feeling underneath my breasts and bra and that the sides of my breasts would be patted down. If I minded this being done in front of the crowd waiting in the airport security line I could go to a special room. If I minded this new and improved pat down I could be visually inspected - in the special room. No special room for me, thanks. I talked with at least 5 different people. I raised HELL. I was beyond pissed. I am still beyond pissed. But I really did need to get on that plane - and my time was running out. I gave in. My face burns to think of it.

And then they told me they had to do the same to my infant son. They had to feel between his legs. I feel like crying when I think of it - but I gave in. I sat there and watched as a security gaurd invasively patted down my infant son as he screamed for me.

And now I want to fly again to visit family. I really want to go. It's too far to drive and too far to take the train or bus. And here's the hitch. _I would be taking my 4yo daughter this time_. If I am singled out they would want to pat down her body.

What the hell do I do?

Eve


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

I have flown three times in the last two months. I have been searched, and wanded, but not the newer pat down you describe.

And yes, my little guy who is now six has been wanded, searched, shoes inspected, and one time it was awful. He fell to the ground screaming hysterically as the guard attempted to wand him....he was rolling all over the carpeted floor with the guard wanding him as he rolled and screamed, and the worst of it was, my husband was in the next lane getting checked with our other two kids and they wouldnt let him come over to try and calm Nicholas down. He was so upset, it still bugs me almost 4 yrs later.

Like you, i do what i have to to get on the damn plane.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momea*
I fly a lot. I fly with my two children a lot. To visit far away friends and family.

I *always* am singled out for "special treatment" with airport security.











I am so sorry. I wish I knew why.









Maybe you could contact the airport ombudsman (do they have one)? Someone "in charge" to explain your situation to?










We fly a lot too, but sounds like you fly more often than I do.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

Ugh. This is my nightmare. My grandparents who are quite old and not in good health despertly want me and dd to come visit them. And I have been putting it off because I am afraid they will try to touch me, strip me or, God forbid, do that to my daughter. It is not possible to drive that far and I cannot throw my grandma's plane ticket money away by refusing to fly if they demand a search. I don't know what to do either. All all know is that I am very angry that our country is stripping away our liberties.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Oh, man. We'll be flying across the country in July. I'm excited to travel (never been off the west coast) but dreading the airport and all its potential nightmares.

I'm already starting to explain to ds over & over again (like a story) the kinds of things they might "check" at the airport so it won't be as frightening to him, and we might actually go to the airport a week or so before our flight so he can see it, and maybe watch the security check from a distance. He'll be 6 when we fly.

But dd will only be 16mo, and there's just so much that could go bad -- from her freaking out, I read a story from one mama whose toddler was forced to walk through the detector by himself even though he was terrified, our sling has big metal rings and Lord only knows what they'll make of *that*, I am young and reasonably attractive with big lactating boobies, and on and on and on.

Anyway, here's the plan I have so far (yes, I've started planning already







: did I mention I'm _really nervous_ about the airport?)

1) contact airline *and* airport about sling, regulations about wearing it on the plane, the best way to get it through security (I'm thinking take it off and put it where you put your purse & pocket change to go thru the detector, then walk thru detector with dd in-arms). Ask about policy regarding toddlers at security -- is it SOP to separate them from parents in any way? if so, how to handle it so there'll be the least trauma?

2) make sure dh & I are in same lane for security, family all together. Remove all body jewelry before going through, put in pockets & treat like pocket change (DH & I both wear enough metal to set off detectors). We can put it back in onboard the plane or once we get there.

3) in case we get unreasonably hassled: there's a thread in Activism about invasive "patdowns" and guerillamama made a great post. Some of her advice was to loudly, calmly & clearly state that you do not consent to a search, then if they still bother you, demand to speak with a supervisor. She also says she would refuse to go anywhere private, and call her lawyer (or bluff it) on her cell phone.

4) allow extra time, in case there *is* a hassle, so we're less likely to be in a position of choosing between standing up for our rights or making our plane.

5) breathe deeply & remember that statistically we're not likely to have any big problems. We'll be benefitting from our Caucasian-ness, I'm sure







:

Will be subscribing to this thread and would love, love, love any tips!


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

....


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

TSA just changed rules and eliminated the under bra pat down you just descibed in the past few weeks.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

girlndocs said:


> breathe deeply & remember that statistically we're not likely to have any big problems. We'll be benefiting from our Caucasian-ness, I'm sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya43*
TSA just changed rules and eliminated the under bra pat down you just descibed in the past few weeks.

This is not entirely true. TSA is still doing the bra pat down but they are doing it with the backs of thier hands instead of their palms.

I'm sorry this happened to you, it sounds just terrible.


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

Thanks for sharing your experience. I too was "selected" for a special search, along with my then 8 month old daughter. My partner was in another line, unfortunately. The screener actually expected me to hand her to another screener while they scanned me. I just said "No, I am not comfortable handing my daughter to a stranger" and they did go ahead and do it while I held her. Fortunately, my daughter is pretty easy going and she didn't freak out.

I will definitely try to have the whole family going through the same line next time. There really needs to be a policy change about separating kids from parents, at least.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

sweetbaby3 said:


> girlndocs said:
> 
> 
> > breathe deeply & remember that statistically we're not likely to have any big problems. We'll be benefiting from our Caucasian-ness, I'm sure
> ...


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## Geofizz (Sep 25, 2003)

Hmmm, I've never been stopped, and I've taken probably 30+ flights since 9/11. I'm wondering what I do differently. I should state that I'm as white as they come (though with brown hair).

When we're traveling as a family, I generally take DD first and DH handles all the stuff. We get everything ready for the xray machine and then I go through holding DD and DH waits until all the stuff is into the machine before going through himself.

I don't know if any of the following helps, this is what I do:
I always try to present myself as relaxed and confident, not in the slightest bit nervous. I smile and say good morning to everyone working there. I make eye contact with everyone involved. I make chit-chat about what ever is at hand. I have no idea if it is what helps me avoid the additional screening, but the closest questioning I've ever gotten is being asked if my breastpump was "some sort of breathing machine."

Anyone getting to second base with a TSA agent should probably at least write a letter of complaint to everyone and anyone involved, with a copy sent to the local newspaper.


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

DH and I have flown a lot (although not with a child), and I've kind of come to see some rhyme and reason for the "special" treatment. As long as I pass through the metal detector on the first try without it going off, and I am carrying ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, I don't get searched.

Take off your belt, shoes, jewelry, glasses, hair clip, sling, EVERYTHING. Wear a light shirt that is somewhat form fitting - not baggy. If you are wearing a sweatshirt or jacket, take that off too.

If your child is CDed, make sure he doesn't have diaper pins on. Try to put him in clothes without snaps or anything metal.

Your four year old should be similarly clothed to you - non-baggy, with jacket or sweatshirt taken off. She should go through first. I like the idea of talking through the process beforehand, like a game or story. You can even play act her walking through the metal detector.

More in a sec...


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

ditto what geofizz said and I've got blue eyes to boot!

I also always put my shoes through the machine, always keep all sharp objects (nail clippers, razor, whatever) in the same part of the same bag --- sequestered away in a toiletry bag, and never wear a belt or big metal jewelry. When it doubt the object in question comes off or out of the bag so that I can go through the metal detector with child. I should note that I always wear slip on shoes to make on/off a non-issue, especially with a squirming kiddo.

The issues I have had have all been with my local, duluth, MN airport and all have involved some kind of absolute inability to identify objects on the xray screen. most recently ---> magna doodle.

I recently made a xcountry trip with a 2 yr old alone and managed just fine with a stroller, carseat and bag. I had very little carry on stuff -- no computer (which is unusual for me because I usually travel for work). The biggest hassles we had were the magna doodle and they wanted my dd to take off her "jingle bell" which resulted in mass chaos for her. Not unreasonable given the rules about scanning belts, shoes with metal insoles, etc.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
aanything out of the ordinary, including activist t-shirts or a "hippy" look, is likely to be flagged)
.

Yep. We all know Mohammad Atta wore Birkenstocks, a Greenpeace t-shirt, and dreadlocks before he blew up the WTC. Damned hippie terrorists.


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

I wonder if by carrying your son through, you attract attention as being somewhat out of the ordinary, and that is why you get searched? I don't really know how to prevent that. I usually try to have everything ready by the time I get to front of the line (shoes, etc. off) - just drop my stuff on the conveyer belt and walk on through. That way I don't take any extra time.

Quote:

Hair bleach, blue contact lenses, light skin, children are non out of the reach of terrorists.
Keep in mind that not all terrorists (and therefore, not all children of terrorists) have dark complexions. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist of the worst sort, and he was as corn fed as they come. That's why racial profiling doesn't work (and why they have to be more random about it). There's always crazies out there, and it's not governed by the color of your skin.


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## indie (Jun 16, 2003)

Has anyone had any trouble with cloth diapers and their children going through the check? I'm afraid they may see the bulk as a problem and and want to search her genital area. I was thinking of getting diposibles for the flight.


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## Kavita (Dec 7, 2004)

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here . . . this thread just caught my eye. I am sorry for everyone who has to go through an invasive search, especially of their children. However, although it seems ridiculous in one way to search an infant or toddler, I have to note that children ARE as much of a security risk as adults, for the reason that adults have many times used babies, young children, or children's items to conceal contraband, be that weapons, explosives, or drugs. For example, there have been a lot of drugs smuggled in babys' diapers. In my work in criminal justice I've experienced people who have used strollers as an aid to shoplifting, putting stolen items in bags in the bottom basket, in the stroller itself, etc. And a number of people who have trained their little kids to shoplift FOR them. You would just not believe the crappy ways in which people exploit their kids . . . . Kids are perfect for this, because they appear (and are) so innocent that they could fly under the radar. And terrorists who are into suicide missions and blowing up planes and buildings full of innocent adults and children aren't going to blink at strapping explosives on a baby. Also, under the bra strap or taped under the breasts is the favorite way for many criminally involved women to carry weapons, contraband, etc. However, you should be searched by a same-sex security officer, and the bra strap thing is just sort of lifting the bra strap at the sides and pulling it out from the body slightly and maybe wiggling it around a little. (So any weapons held against the body by the strap would fall out.) Also, the under-breast check, if done, should be simply running the blade of the hand against the chest wall under the breast with PALMS DOWN, NOT grabbing the breast or with palms up. The purpose is not to "feel up" the breast, it's to check the area UNDER the breast. People who search should be utilizing the utmost care to protect the dignity of the person searched and also prevent any appearance of impropriety. It's unfortunate that although WE may be decent, law-abiding citizens and caring parents, there are others who are not. :-(

I don't believe we need to give up our civil rights wholesale to protect against terrorism--HOWEVER, I am in favor of more rather than less airport security, so that I and all children and adults can fly as safely as possible. I and my husband and our carry-on luggage all got searched (wanded, patted down, shoes off, luggage unpacked, etc.) boarding an international flight this summer. It was a hassle, but I'd planned on the possibility and had allowed enough time at the airport. And, we were both searched by same-sex security personnel, who treated us and our belongings with respect. It still sucked a little, but I figured it was par for the course.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
Yep. We all know Mohammad Atta wore Birkenstocks, a Greenpeace t-shirt, and dreadlocks before he blew up the WTC. Damned hippie terrorists.









And you who once argued till you were purple in the face :LOL that girls need to dress modestly if they want to be respected. It ain't right, you said, but that's the way it is. Same here. It ain't right, but counterculture dress will flag you as someone who needs special attention by the TSA







. If you want to have better chance of breezing through security, dress boring.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimie*

Keep in mind that not all terrorists (and therefore, not all children of terrorists) have dark complexions. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist of the worst sort, and he was as corn fed as they come. That's why racial profiling doesn't work (and why they have to be more random about it). There's always crazies out there, and it's not governed by the color of your skin.

That was my point too - notice that light skin is included on my list of things not out of reach for terrorists. The minute we rely on profiling, we will let terrorists who look like neither a skin-head nor a muslim slip by.

In context of airport, however, I'm not adverse to profiling used in addition to randomness. It IS unfair, but the unfairness is, to me, acceptable cost-benefit wise in ways that profilling outside an airport (traffic stops, mall security) is not (benefits in these cases do not outweight cost, don't come close to outweighing costs).


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

*I* for the record, do not have an area under the breasts. My breasts are perky and face forward with no sagging what-so-ever.

:LOL


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Well, thanks to my breasts, I'd get a full torso massage out of the whole thing! :LOL


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

OK, I confess, I keep a thermos of coffee under mine..


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

my 1 year old dd and i got flagged for all of the seraching and checking when we had a one way flight
that puts you at the high risk to blow shit up zone
anyway..we had been visiting my in laws with out hubby for a week and i was so damn happy to be getting on that plane (away from them and back home...) that i would have let them do anything they wanted.....
and did
i was grateful to go home and it showed
i made jokes about it to my dd and with them about them feeling me up etc
and she did great b/c she could feel that although it was all a little strange momma seemed fine/even happy so she was too
it was very hard on me physically to have them totally pat me down
but i suggested to them as an alternative to putting dd down or having a stranger hold her so i could get searched....that i hold her in the air above my head as they search my chest and then i held her on one hip as they did the other side....etc
they thought al of that was maybe a little nutty, but who cares....my dd adn i were laughing b/c it was all nutty to us....
when they asked for someone else to hold her originaly, i just frimly and sweetly told them that
no, strangers holding our dd is against our belief system
worked just fine
good luck


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I honestly don't see the stepped-up airport security as a means of dealing with terrorism as much as a means of getting us used to giving up our rights. So, it's ok to give in and be illegally searched without probable cause if it's done in the name of "security"... what's next? How many more parts of the constitution and bill of rights will be shredded and burned before we wake up and realize what's really happening?

after the nightmare flight I took last year, which wasn't half as bad as that of the OP, I simply won't be flying anywhere anytime soon. problem solved, for me anyway. If they want my business, they can stop violating my rights as a human and citizen of the United States.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

ITA, stafl.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are at least *some* security guards who enjoy touching women. And they probably get drunk and tell their friends about it. It disgusts me. :blech


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## Star (Apr 21, 2003)

Is this all happening in US airports or Canada ones too?


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

My dd uses CDs and we had a small incident involving them. She has never been searched but her diaper bag was flagged and searched. They searched everything including the poopy diaper hiding in her wet bag. The guy looked ta me like I was nuts for carrying around poo. He was thoroughly disgusted and made a big show of pulling off and throwing out his gloves. I had tried to warn him but he had asked me to be silent. It was very embarrassing. In the future, I will make sure and make a stop at the restroom to unload any unwelcome passengers before security. We had just changed her in the car and were running late......

Yooper


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
Yep. We all know Mohammad Atta wore Birkenstocks, a Greenpeace t-shirt, and dreadlocks before he blew up the WTC. Damned hippie terrorists.




















Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
And you who once argued till you were purple in the face :LOL that girls need to dress modestly if they want to be respected. It ain't right, you said, but that's the way it is. Same here. It ain't right, but counterculture dress will flag you as someone who needs special attention by the TSA

Yeah, and that will get more and more true the more people think of it as "not fair but just the way it is" and comply by dressing as inoffensively as possible. As I said in my previous post, I intend to remove body jewelry, etc, to avoid setting off the metal detector, and I'll probably find some slip-on shoes 'cause I don't want to be lacing up calf-high Docs in a busy airport with a squirmy toddler. But I'll be damned if in order to avoid being unreasonably harassed, I'll go out of my way to dress nondescriptly, or avoid wearing anything normal (like jeans with a metal zip).

I think that if a person's usual appearance incudes an activist shirt, dreads or hippie/punk/gothic clothing, then they're doing themselves and everyone else a huge disservice to change that in order to appear nonthreatening. If everyone placidly goes along like that, how long will it take for the smallest variation in appearance to be seen as threatening? (I can see it now: "Security alert in Sector 5! Suspect is wearing shirt of a non-standard color!" :LOL)


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

This is the reason we chose to spend 14 hours in the car each way when we took our trip to NYC over the holidays. Interestingly, in a recent test, the TSA missed 1 out of every 4 "bombs" that testers brought through security. These new measures are NOT making things safer. Just paving the way for our liberties and rights to be stripped.

While it was no where near as bad as the OP, my oldest and I had to suffer through a pretty invasive search when we flew home from NYC a year and a half ago. I was 6 months pregnant with my second, and travelling alone with my then almost 2.5 year old. They wanted her to walk through security alone, and I refused. I was not letting her out of my physical control while in LaGuardia Airport. She was terrified as it was with the normal security protocols. Because of my insistance that I keep a hold of my toddler's hand, they insisted that I be searched. They went through my bags, made me take my shoes off, patted me down, and wanded me. Then they insisted on wanding my daughter. She was wearing overalls with metal buckles that set the wand off. My poor daughter was petrified with fear. She was so scared she had stopped crying and was just enduring her treatment. I wanted to cry for her. The woman kept running the wand over the buckles (she says to entertain dd with the noise), until I said in a very tight, but calm voice, "You're terrifying her. I'm going to pick her up now." We walked back to our bags, I put my shoes on and we, furious, made our way to the gate, and I swore I would never fly into that airport again. So far, so good.

Bec


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*









Yeah, and that will get more and more true the more people think of it as "not fair but just the way it is" and comply by dressing as inoffensively as possible. As I said in my previous post, I intend to remove body jewelry, etc, to avoid setting off the metal detector, and I'll probably find some slip-on shoes 'cause I don't want to be lacing up calf-high Docs in a busy airport with a squirmy toddler. But I'll be damned if in order to avoid being unreasonably harassed, I'll go out of my way to dress nondescriptly, or avoid wearing anything normal (like jeans with a metal zip).

I think that if a person's usual appearance incudes an activist shirt, dreads or hippie/punk/gothic clothing, then they're doing themselves and everyone else a huge disservice to change that in order to appear nonthreatening. If everyone placidly goes along like that, how long will it take for the smallest variation in appearance to be seen as threatening? (I can see it now: "Security alert in Sector 5! Suspect is wearing shirt of a non-standard color!" :LOL)

I'm actually not advocating dressing to suit others' preconception (my girls, for instance, can wear all the low riders they want - refusing to conform is the only chance we have of changing these preconceptions). But it is a fact that TSA officers will flag you if you look "weird." I offered that fact in response to the OP noting she is always flagged and her considering not flying to avoid the searches.

Me I dress boring to fly. But I dress boring all the time. Dressing "cool" is takes WAY too much work and energy.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
1) contact airline *and* airport about sling, regulations about wearing it on the plane, the best way to get it through security (I'm thinking take it off and put it where you put your purse & pocket change to go thru the detector, then walk thru detector with dd in-arms). Ask about policy regarding toddlers at security -- is it SOP to separate them from parents in any way? if so, how to handle it so there'll be the least trauma?

You will have to take off the sling. Once I flew when DS was about 5 months old and asleep in the sling - I had to take him out and put the sling on the belt to go through the x-ray machine.

Another time, DS was about 10 months old. DS and I were flying by ourselves. They made me hand him to an attendant to hold while I went through the metal detector alone, then DS was carried through by the attendant. They had to pry him, screaming, from my arms. The attendant was visibly upset, also.

Last time, DS was maybe 19 months. He got away from me while I was loading our bags onto the belt and ran through the metal detector. I called to him but he ignored me. He was headed right for the escalator. I yelled at someone to stop him, and when nobody did, I just dropped our stuff and pushed everyone out of my way and ran through the detector after him. Of course it went off, and everyone freaked out, yelling at me to stop, come back, etc. What could I do? I caught my runaway toddler and carried him back to the detector, where we both were subjected to a full search.







One guy had the nerve to say to me, "Next time, don't let him run away," in this really disapproving way. No sh!t, Sherlock! What great advice, I hadn't thought of that. I figured letting my 19 month old child run free through the airport terminal was a fine idea. That's why I risked getting arrested to chase after him!









I hate airports. Good luck to you.


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## sarahrose (Dec 24, 2002)

While I myself have not been flagged, my (then 3.5 year old) was flagged on our way back from a trip to Disneyland at LAX. He was the only one of our family to be searched. It was a bit comical though. When the screeners asked which person A was my husband and I both pointed at our son. The screeners were very surprised and seemed even a little disgruntled about searching such a small child. They let me go with him and I stayed with him the whole time. They were very polite and he was a champ. we laughed at the time but i was very surprise that he was flagged. i guess it just made me feel like it was very random. But hearing some other stories, maybe not.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I got flagged several times in last few years. I've also received some aggresive pat downs, dd's diaper has been fondled, but I've didn't have to take it off. Last time she was 1.5 and screaming hystericially because I was being patted down, she didn't want the man touching me, DH was getting searched the same time, and wasn't able to get to her, I had to tell him to hurry up so I could attend to dd. Another time when dd wasn't walking yet, they wanted me to put her down so she could crawl through the metal detecter! I vetoed that pretty quickly. One time I almost didn't make it on the plane because they wouldn't give my back my clogs, they had to keep testing them over and over again.


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## SabrinaJL (Apr 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
my 1 year old dd and i got flagged for all of the seraching and checking when we had a one way flight
that puts you at the high risk to blow shit up zone

Hmmm, I didn't even realize that. About a year ago, me and my 9 yo dd and 16 yo db got pulled aside and checked (had to take our shoes off and all that) and it WAS a one-way flight.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
And you who once argued till you were purple in the face :LOL that girls need to dress modestly if they want to be respected. It ain't right, you said, but that's the way it is. Same here. It ain't right, but counterculture dress will flag you as someone who needs special attention by the TSA







. If you want to have better chance of breezing through security, dress boring.

I stand by both statements, actually -- and I agree with you!


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

no, I'm all for women fighting preconceptions of thier public bodies - it is a fight that is worth it if we are every going to beat sexism.

But I'm not at all sure that changing the conformist bent of a tsa officer is worth being always flagged and searched every flight - perhaps.

But neither applies to me anyway (I pretty much wear pajamas everywhere - and pajama bottoms apparently doesn't flag you as a "weirdo possibly likely to blow shit up")


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## Astrid (Aug 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Star*
Is this all happening in US airports or Canada ones too?

I've flown in Canada about 12 times since 9/11 and have never had anyone touch me, even in the big city airports. Everyone has to take their jacket off to go through the x-ray and if you are wearing boots you have to run them through the x-ray too (as well as anything else you are carrying of course) I never wear anything with metal (not even pants with a snap :LOL) because I don't want to take the smallest chance of setting off the metal detector. It is usually only me and my son travelling so he goes through first and I follow, never taking my eyes off him. He often gets his carry on bag searched because it is usually full of metal cars.

This is just my experience, maybe I have just been lucky in my flights.


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Okay - I just have to take issue with anyone who thinks it's okay to do this to children - even in the name of national security.

1. What am I teaching my daughter if I allow her personal space to be violated?

I think I would be teaching her that when someone in authority says "I get to touch you" then you let them touch you.

That puts girls at risk for abuse. Period.

2. I just can't articulate this well - maybe someone can help me here - but if I got flagged again, and you can bet your devalued American dollar I would, she would have to watch me letting someone touch my breasts. I almost think that is more powerful somehow than letting someone touch _her_. Because children's space is typically less respected than adults. And I am her mother. And even if I tried to laugh it off she could tell that I was faking it - and what kind of twisted message would she get from that? And it would all be happening in front of all of the people waiting in line to get through security - with no one saying peep - just makes it seem normal and that scares me - that she would think this is normal and just grow up _accepting_ it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*
I honestly don't see the stepped-up airport security as a means of dealing with terrorism as much as a means of getting us used to giving up our rights.

Our children won't have any to _give up_ at this rate.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

momea - the professionalism of it is key. Doctors touch my body and will touch my childrens' body, possibly including my teenage daughter's breasts (as a teenager a doctor once illustrated how I should do a breast exam - I remember being amazed at how different it was when he touched my breasts than when my boyfriend tocuhed them - there was nothing sexual or giggly or charged about it), but these touches should not feel violating, and neither should the touches of the TSA officers. If flyers are feeling violated (and many clearly are) than changes need to be made.

My daughter watching a female TSA officer feel under my bra with the back of her hand will not upset her because I will not be upset (unless it for some reason feels violating - in which case I will be raising as much hell as I can by demanding to talk to supervisiors, demanding a different TSA officer, and later writing letters - all of which will send her the right message about what to do when you feel violated).

I think that teaching my daughters and sons about the autonomy of their bodies in the face of authority and about consent can happen in a world in which doctors and TSA officers need to touch our bodies in order to do thier jobs well.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yoopervegan*
MyThey searched everything including the poopy diaper hiding in her wet bag. The guy looked ta me like I was nuts for carrying around poo. He was thoroughly disgusted and made a big show of pulling off and throwing out his gloves. I had tried to warn him but he had asked me to be silent. It was very embarrassing.

:LOL
Sorry, I don't find it embarassing at all, I would have been laughing my head off at him, what exactly did he EXPECT to find in a dirty diaper??








Actually, maybe you should all be sure to carry at least one poopy diaper in your diaper bag when you have to travel. Most of those officers clearly have no idea what its like to travel with children, you'd think they'd get some sorta training on dealing with the various publics.

From what some of you are saying, I get the idea that male officers can search women?? Surely not? I'm so glad I don't have to travel to the US.


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## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

I will freak out at the airport with everyone watching if they try to tell me they have to reach under my shirt or go anywhere near my breasts!

Damn, I'm crying just thinking about it!

I'm going to call the airport and see what the current security measures are wrt pat downs. I'll be damned if I'm going to stand there and be molested by a guard because their rules say so- it's legalized sexual abuse! NOT HAPPENING.


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## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

I just found this link to the TSA site, they have a little guide that might help you prepare if you're going to fly (like I am, in two weeks). http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=175

Damn- I know it's just trauma response but I am really freaking out about this whole pat down thing! I'm literally sitting here crying while at the same time kind of thinking to myself, "chill out!"


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris*

From what some of you are saying, I get the idea that male officers can search women?? Surely not? I'm so glad I don't have to travel to the US.

You can request a same sex TSA officer, but you might have to wait till one is available so go early.

I've been patted down once and it was by a woman and it was done professionally. (she told me what she was going to do before each new step, made sure I was ok with it, used the back of her hand). I didn't feel molested or violated. It needs to be done like this always.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dynamicdoula*

Damn- I know it's just trauma response but I am really freaking out about this whole pat down thing! I'm literally sitting here crying while at the same time kind of thinking to myself, "chill out!"


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

I remember being searched and wanded when I was about 5 or 6, but last year I flew with my two dds through a total of about 8 different airports, and other than the x-ray machine for our hand luggage and the doorway thingy, we were not searched.

Of course, none of that was in the US.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

I travel a lot with DS (and have gone through a variety of US airports, big and small) and I haven't had any issues or problems. They've always called a female TSA officer to do the pat downs and they've never been anything but polite and respectful (even friendly) to us (DS included.)


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## sagewinna (Nov 19, 2001)

Last summer we travelled by plane... I carried dd, who was 8 months old at the time, and her overalls set the alarm off. A female agent wanded us both, then patted us down, but was very respectful and nice about the whole thing. She said overalls set off the alarms a lot.

They weren't as nice when my husband made a crack afterward... "Oh, good, they didn't find any explosives on the baby!" A guy came over and told him that if we were in a bigger airport he'd be in very big trouble, so hush up! lol


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

I've been keeping touch with TSA because I had a feeling people wouldn't stand for this! I'm so glad people didn't! Gives me hope









So here's the latest email they sent me - I just cut and paste the relevant parts:

"In the months since the new pat-down procedures were first instituted, TSA has been closely evaluating the effectiveness of the new procedures, as well as customer feedback. Based on our own analysis, the agency has adjusted the procedures in a way which will not compromise security.

Passengers may be asked to remove their outerwear, as TSA requires all
passengers to remove outerwear such as suit and sport coats, athletic
warm-up jackets, and blazers for X-ray before proceeding through the
walk-through metal detectors. It is important to note that if a sport
coat or blazer is worn as the outermost garment - not worn over a blouse
or sweater, for example - it does not have to be removed.

As part of current torso pat-down procedures, screeners first pat down
the individual's sides and then invite the individual to lower his or
her arms. This reduces the period of time that an individual is in an
extended search posture and provides for a more comfortable natural
stance.

**Screeners then complete a limited torso pat-down from front to
back, covering a line *below* the chest area to the waist, followed by a
pat-down of the individual's entire back. When conducting this routine
pat-down, *screeners will now include the individual's chest area only if
the hand-held metal detector alarms or there is an irregularity or
anomaly in the person's clothing outline*. A full-body pat-down is still
required for individuals who cannot pass through the walk-through metal
detector. **

TSA has implemented special procedures for conducting searches of
sensitive areas of a passenger's body. In these situations, the security
screener is required to use the back of the hand to pat down the
passenger. In situations when a woman's chest area must be cleared,
especially if the woman is wearing an undergarment such as an underwire bra, the security screener is also required to use the back of the hand to pat
down the passenger. For non-sensitive areas, including other parts of
the torso, screeners are required to use the front of the hand. A
screener of the same gender should conduct the pat-down. Passengers should communicate to the screener if they are experiencing physical or
emotional discomfort during the procedure. However, if the passenger
declines to permit the search, he or she will not be permitted to board an
aircraft.

As the screening is being conducted, the screener should be describing
the procedures he or she is employing. Passengers may request any
enhanced screening be conducted in a private location, and screeners are
required to offer private screening to passengers who are subject to a
pat-down inspection of their sensitive body areas. Private screening
will be conducted in a room or in an area away from other passengers,
depending on the configuration of the airport. "

The way I read it - I don't have to worry about TSA personnel feeling under my bra strap or breasts - unless I set the metal detector off when they wand over my chest area. So - no underwires!! As I don't anticipate setting of a metal detector I'm feeling up to traversing airport security again.

Eve


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

ug this stresses me out a little. i dont like my space invaded. I've been patted down before and that's ok. but never strip searched or patted down near my breasts or bum.
however when I compare the possiblility of one or 2 searches like that to what people who get searched every single time suffer, it seems bearable. I am seeing someone who gets "randomly" searched every single time he flies. without fail. and he's been treated badly by security in other countries too, because he's from a place that most of the world seems to view as 99% terrorist. so...I am less of a drama queen about my own invasions of privacy now, seeing how he's treated.

I dont think we're letting our kids down if we allow them to get searched. We have not choice. You either risk being searched or you take the train, right? I think by freaking out publically over it, and not staying calm for the children, we are letting them down. a child is going to be more upset by her mother getting upset than by the search itself.
it's the reality of the situation now. our president cant protect us anymore so we have to do the best we can with searches and other inadequate protections. yes it is inconvenient and humiliating, but it could be worse.

I am seriously laughing about the guard searching a wet diaper sack!!! LOL!! I bet he's never seen one of those before! That must have been *really* satisfying.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
it's the reality of the situation now. our president cant protect us anymore so we have to do the best we can with searches and other inadequate protections. yes it is inconvenient and humiliating, but it could be worse.

For crying out loud!!! Illegal, unjustified searches aren't protecting anybody!! They are only taking away what few constitutional rights we have left. Searching airline passengers isn't going to catch any terrorists. The public needs to be outraged at this injustice and totally quit flying by commercial airlines until they quit with the invasion of privacy and personal space. It's totally wrong, and not justified or justifiable. It's illegal search and seizure, without probable cause, and they have no reason to suspect most anyone, much less *everyone*








I will not tolerate it. Period. It's wrong. And I think it's sad that people just lay down and take it like an abused dog takes its beatings.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
I remember being searched and wanded when I was about 5 or 6, but last year I flew with my two dds through a total of about 8 different airports, and other than the x-ray machine for our hand luggage and the doorway thingy, we were not searched.

*Of course, none of that was in the US.*

(emphasis mine)








wonder why that is? Maybe because it is only in the US that our basic rights are no longer upheld. Here where everyone is always harping on what a free country we live in???


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

hey....I am an enormously fierce defender of american civil liberties. From the beginning I protested the Patriot Act...I fight the man , I write angry letters...I voted for Not Bush. So don't call me an abused dog who is lying down and taking it!! ;-)

but the thing is, it IS legal. It is. these searches are legal, thanks to that piece of crap, the Patriot Act.

and the fact is, any single one of us can be imprisioned, indefinitely, or deported at any time if Homeland Security wants it done. our rights are gone. so, what are you gonna do?

So.. since it is legal, and since we can't protest it and expect to fly, the only option I can see that wont put me in jail or traumatize my child is to comply, and fight it properly. one good place to start is by removing the NEED to search people (which I think is somewhat useful if it's done properly).

That means working on the bigger problem: Our corrupt, disgusting government. Our foreign policy & relations. Our greedy, selfish oil demand. Our refusal to participate in anything other than what serves the corporate capitalists who run this place.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

1984... you know how he just barely remembers what the world was like before the Big Brother regime, and the neighbor kids don't remember anything about it? And they just think it's fine to rat out their dad to the authorities and he disappears? It only takes one generation growing up with something being "normal" for that to become normal. If we go along with this stuff "for the greater good" and act all nonchalant about it, our kids WILL grow up thinking there's nothing wrong about strangers "in authority" violating their personal space. And this will create greater opportunities for child molesters, and this will make it harder to teach our children to respect their own bodies. I don't need to fly that badly.










And, ITA Stafl: It's not helping anything anyway! It makes the sheeple feel safer because "someone's doing something" and it makes the sheeple subdued because they all have to be good little obedient sheeple if they want to be protected now, don't they?


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
but the thing is, it IS legal. It is. these searches are legal, thanks to that piece of crap, the Patriot Act.

No. The Patriot Act does not trump the Constitution. Just because those running the show refuse to acknowledge this does not mean that it's not true.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

good luck in court with that.

I heart your passion and I agree that it *shouldnt* trump the constitution. but the reality of the situation is that it does. temporarily. and I, being a single mom, am not willing to go to jail for refusing an airport search.


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## nycapmom (Jan 30, 2005)

DH is tall, dark, and handsome (unshaven too) so he has always been 'flagged' but only searched with the wand and our bags have always been rifled through and we have always been questioned. BUT we haven't flown in 3yrs so I assume that we will get the full treatment this summer when we plan on flying overseas again. My concern is for my very sensitive 4yo. How would I explain this to him without scaring the crap out of him?

eta - DS also has serious issues with people disrespecting his personal space. We have worked very hard to teach him how to deal with unwanted touching (he is bothered even by hugs/kisses from people other than DH and me)


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

We fly frequently and have never had this happen. Not that I doubt you btw!

What the heck can we do about this crap? (other than not flying? I have to fly)

I do not get the separate the mother and child necessity for any search.

hmmm....what lawyer should be getting a call?


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I am flying alot this summer and I am not looking forward to this...

I have already packed my bags and used clear plastic ziplock bags for everything, hoping to make it through without incident.

G-d help me, I may be back here venting....







:


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
good luck in court with that.

I heart your passion and I agree that it *shouldnt* trump the constitution. but the reality of the situation is that it does. temporarily. and I, being a single mom, am not willing to go to jail for refusing an airport search.

G-d, I am a single Mama also, and I cannot go to jail for this...







:.


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## BumbleBena (Mar 18, 2005)

I used to get flagged when I flew from the Tallahassee airport. Every single time, they would search me. I howled and stamped my feet about it at home, until DP calmly reminded me that I wear a headcovering, and might be considered suspect because of it.

I complained once to the man searching me (I was always just wanded, nobody ever patted me down because the metal detector didn't go off) and it hasn't happened since.

Personally, I'm ok with them searching me. They never touched me, and I'm always friendly with the people who work there. They're always very professional, and I try to keep in mind that they're just doing their jobs.

About metal... I have a variety of "doo-dads" in my hair; hairpins, a clip, and a straight pin which secures my kapp. They've never set off the metal detector. Shoes are the only things that have ever given me a problem.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lula*
hmmm....what lawyer should be getting a call?

How about the ACLU? Or are they too busy fighting other injustices?


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## Datura (Mar 18, 2005)

I was talking to another American going to my university (apparently since we're both American we have to hang out, despite the fact that we'd have NEVER talked back in the U.S.). She was going on about how important the new airport security was, how the gov't had our best interest at heart, how we shouldn't protest because we don't know all the details and they do, yada yada. Anyhow, through all this drivel I did get one useful tidbit. Sheep girl used to work at an airport, and apparently every *5th* person in line is taken out randomly, plus anyone that looks suspicious. So I guess avoid being 5th.

It's stories like these that make me happy that I'm in the process of getting my NZ citizenship.... Sad, though, that the country that I grew up in is essentially gone.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I got the boob patdown. I don't fly often so this was over a year ago.

They called a woman officer over to do the search (I didn't have to request one, but I would have) and she explained exactly what she was going to do before she did it. I can't say that I enjoyed it, but it wasn't scary or traumatic. It's certainly not something that *I* would choose to risk jail (or even missing my plane) over.


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## Sofiamomma (Jan 4, 2002)

I'm a little confused about how this is taking away our civil liberties? Please explain. I mean, is it a mass conspiracy between the oil countries and the Bush administration? Like, hey, come on over and blow up some planes, people, and buildings while we sit idly by. Then we will have an excuse to take away civil liberties? I'm not sure it actually prevents terrorism, but it must at least hamper it. The locked cockpit and noncomplacent citizens (like those on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania) are probably more preventative.

I hate having someone go through my stuff, throw my underwear around, mess up my excellent packing job, etc. but the pat down was very professional and did not bother me or my children. I don't like being examined by a HCP, either, but do it because I feel it is helpful. Same with security checks. My two year was actually asking for "my turn." She just wants to be like her mom and big sis, so thought she should get the same treatment. It was not threatening at all. It was a big PITA when the plane was delayed and we had to go in and out of the gate area a couple of times for food and restroom breaks (KCI does not have any facilities in the gate area). We nearly missed the plane because we had to get searched each time.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.
what, exactly, do you not understand? They have to have PROBABLE CAUSE and/or a warrant in order to search me and my stuff, or that of just about anyone flying on commercial airlines. They have neither. It is unconstitutional, and it is not making us safe from terrorists. That is just an excuse that the US sheeple have eaten up without question because of the way the media has handled breaking the news to us. And it is that unquestioning of the big bad government and their totalitarian ways (all in the name of "freedom" no less!) that really bugs me the most.


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## mommykof5 (Mar 15, 2005)

The last time I flew I had my then 9yr old and 4yo (girl) with me. We went through manly with no problem however when my dd somehow ended up behind me (in between her brother and I) After I went through she went through the "gate" metal detector. We were then stopped and a male officer said he would have to search her with a pat down. I looked at him like WTF. I told him that if he dared laid a hand on my dd I would see him in court for child molestation. He said he would get a woman but I repeated my statement. I told him they could wand all of us but that if they touched me I would call the real police. He said they could make me go into a room for a naked visual (with a weird look on his face) I started yelling "You must be some [email protected] pervert if you think I'm gonna let you look at my children naked You freak!!" Needless to say ALL the people behind me agreed with me and they let us go.


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## mommykof5 (Mar 15, 2005)

PS It was in Atlanta airport.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*
How about the ACLU? Or are they too busy fighting other injustices?

I recall that the ACLU has been involved in airport security issues for quite some time. I found a link to an old (1996) transcript of testimony before Congress here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/faa/aclu_testimony.html

"They have to have PROBABLE CAUSE and/or a warrant in order to search me and my stuff, or that of just about anyone flying on commercial airlines. They have neither. It is unconstitutional, and it is not making us safe from terrorists."

Just a couple of legal eagle points: 1) The 4th Amendment right is different for a "search" (which is an all-out, thorough search of a person's body) than it is for a "stop" (which is a brief detention that includes a request for identification and perhaps a pat-down). Most airline security measures, unless they take you into a private room, are "stops", in which case the 4th Amendment would only require "reasonable suspicion" (a much lower standard than probably cause) that you might be trying to take something illegal or dangerous on a plane. 2) the 4th Amendment precludes "unreasonable" searches, it doesn't prohibit searches per se. So the issue isn't so much about probable cause (which usually are interpreted to apply only to warrants) or even reasonable suspicion, but whether the searches are reasonable or not.

I suspect I might agree with you that the airline security measures might be unreasonable (I was once told that I had to sample the bottles of EBM I had with me in my carryon, but was allowed to pass after I requested a supervisor), but I think that the analysis is a little more complicated than your basic assertion that something violates the 4th Amendment. For example, I believe that if you choose to fly on an airline, you must give up some (but not all) of your privacy for that privilege for "safety." I'm not sure where I draw the line, but I would certainly want to be protected from unreasonable searches in my own home more than in an airport.

Karla


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
I'm not sure where I draw the line, but I would certainly want to be protected from unreasonable searches in my own home more than in an airport.

Karla

but didn't the same homeland security/patriot act mean they can come and search anyone's home for any reason at any time? They can tap your phone lines, and they can keep you in jail without pressing any charges, too. Just because they aren't doing it yet doesn't mean they won't.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*
but didn't the same homeland security/patriot act mean they can come and search anyone's home for any reason at any time? They can tap your phone lines, and they can keep you in jail without pressing any charges, too. Just because they aren't doing it yet doesn't mean they won't.

Um . . . I don't think so. Honestly, you sound a little extreme here. You'll have to provide me with a reference to the text of the Act that allegedly allows this.

Karla


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
Um . . . I don't think so. Honestly, you sound a little extreme here. You'll have to provide me with a reference to the text of the Act that allegedly allows this.

Karla

I tried three different links, all three of them wouldn't work, so I gave up. I wonder why you can't get the exact words of the Patriot Act online anymore? Even the links from www.whitehouse.gov were dead links.

I did find where the ACLU's official stand was that while these things are unconstitutional, they are not against the law, because the Patriot Act legally trumps the Constitution, and it will take an act of Congress to change it. The more I learn about it, the scarier it is to me. If you doubt it, you should do your own searching, see what you find.

I'll start a new thread in News and Current Events where we can continue this line of discussion. Sorry, my apologies to the OP.







:


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*








The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

what, exactly, do you not understand? They have to have PROBABLE CAUSE and/or a warrant in order to search me and my stuff, or that of just about anyone flying on commercial airlines. They have neither. It is unconstitutional, and it is not making us safe from terrorists. That is just an excuse that the US sheeple have eaten up without question because of the way the media has handled breaking the news to us. And it is that unquestioning of the big bad government and their totalitarian ways (all in the name of "freedom" no less!) that really bugs me the most.

thank you.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I'm glad I looked at this thread. I'll be flying with my dd and dp this summer, and dp usually gets wanded...I dunno why, he's white but freaky looking, I guess.

But I am going to make sure we as a family are prepared for any of these things, including if they decide they want to search my dd. No TSA thug is touching my dd! seriously, do they screen for child molesters for that job? I doubt it! And what does that do to what I'm trying to teach her about she is in charge of her body?

anyhoo, I'm all outraged right now, I should be calmed down by July







but at least I'll be prepared.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
Um . . . I don't think so. Honestly, you sound a little extreme here. You'll have to provide me with a reference to the text of the Act that allegedly allows this.

Karla

You are wrong, lifetapestry. I don't have time to go dig up a happy outline of the patriot act for you, the act itself is like a thousand pages long, or something. Congress didnt even bother reading it before they passed it, of course. The patriot act most certainly did take away these rights. Not only can anyone in the US be searched at any time, but we can be detained and imprisoned without even access to a laywer, if the government sees fit. They can and do listen to our phones, read emails, and monitor library loans & CC purchases. Nothing is private anymore because the government has access to to all of it. Thanks to the PA.


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
You are wrong, lifetapestry. I don't have time to go dig up a happy outline of the patriot act for you, the act itself is like a thousand pages long, or something.

I don't know why I bother replying to posts like this or stafl's, above. Sorry, but you don't get to allege facts as true without ponying up some text to support it. Your post and stafl's sound like a headline in the National Enquirer, not actual fact.

Most of the Patriot Act is quite open to interpretation. I'm sure that some people believe that it can be interpreted in the way you suggest, but until I see a serious legal source claiming this or the actual text, I will continue to assert that you are wrong.

I'm sure there will lots of challenges to the Patriot Act in the future, and whether or not it "trumps" the constitution. But from where I sit, the 4th Amendment provides reasonable protection under reasonable circumstances-- but how those in power interpret it is sometimes real screwed up.

I fly frequently with my 3 1/2 year old, and all the hysteria in this thread is amusing-- when it isn't scary. He's been patted down and wanded in a very respectful way at least a couple of times, and he's able to walk through the security metal detector by himself. It's just not a big deal-- if you treat it in a matter of fact way, your children likely will too.

Karla


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

patriot act spin off thread
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...26#post3018726


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifetapestry*
... all the hysteria in this thread is amusing-- when it isn't scary ...

Hey! Hysteria? Amusing? That's a low blow!

I started this thread because my BREASTS were GROPED by a stranger in front of TONS OF PEOPLE! Do you seriously think that's okay? Justified? Has that happened to you?

And I think you're minimizing the situation big time! Just because your child is okay with a pat down doesn't mean ALL children are. For some children having someone completely invade their space would be VERY scary - my infant son was taken from me and a TSA officer felt his GROIN. Has that happened to YOUR son? Are you telling me you would be okay with that?

What if your daughter who had just started wearing a bra was flagged for a patdown that included feeling UNDER her bra strap - seriously - you don't think that would be mortifying? Or maybe you would just advise her to go into the "special room" and flash the officer ... who CARES if it's a woman! That's not the point!

Okay - but this is pretty much a moot point now - which is why I revived the thread - because the only time a woman should have to endure a chest search is if a wand is set off over her chest area.

I'm so glad enough people thought that the routine chest pat down was complete b.s. that they did away with it.

E


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Yeah Momea!


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

thanks









It's incredible how worked up I _still_ get over this - it happened so long ago!

E


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

ewwwwwwwwwwww Sorry, this just creeps me out. I HATE that whole process.









Only thing I have to add is that I complained about seating or something trivial while getting my boarding passes and the agent got all pissy at me and marked a giant letter on top of my pass. First and only time I got the whole treatment.


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## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

Wow that sounds miserable.

Since my 2 year old son was born, we have flown on about 18 or so trips. Only once have I ever been searching more than the compulsory walk though the metal detector. By a woman who did so respectfully. I did get the bra check. My son has never been searched.

He has worn cloth diapers every time. Never a question. Except for when they actually search the bags and see my cloth diapers. I would not be worried about that.

That is amazing. I am sorry you had to deal with that. I have noticed security varies severely from airport to airport. Sometime to ridiculous extents.

I do what you do--do what it takes to get on the plane.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

With the caveat that I haven't flown at all since 9/11 ...

I've flown to Israel on El Al a number of times, and each time ... including when I was a child in the early '70s ... I was thoroughly checked, and never was it so insulting or offensive as the OP.

When I was a child I was taken into a booth with my aunt (who I was traveling with) and we were both thoroughly patted down, clothes moved and removed, etc. By a female security officer, first. And second, it was done respectfully and actually helpfully, and it never felt like a violation.

And it actually made me (every time) feel safe.

Have heard such horror stories of the airports searching procedures nowadays, though ... wondering if maybe they should be taking lessons from an airline that's been doing this for decades already.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I have never had this happen to me. But I'm a blond, older, girl next door type. I feel so bad for those of you this does happen to. I have once had to take off my shoes because the "heels were too thick" and all the securty guards nearby kept saying how sorry they were that I had to do even that.

If this madness continues, it will affect my children. They are dark just like their Russian ancestors and Jewish daddy with black hair, olive skin and dark eyes.


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## elephantheart (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadie_sabot*
I'm glad I looked at this thread. I'll be flying with my dd and dp this summer, and dp usually gets wanded...I dunno why, he's white but freaky looking, I guess.

But I am going to make sure we as a family are prepared for any of these things, including if they decide they want to search my dd. No TSA thug is touching my dd! seriously, do they screen for child molesters for that job? I doubt it! And what does that do to what I'm trying to teach her about she is in charge of her body?


I haven't read through this whole thread, and seriously see both sides of the story.

But, the truth is they do screen for child molesters, or any other issues. My husband IS a screener for the TSA, and had to go through an extensive background search conducted by an outside agency in order to get the job.

For the record, he works there so we can feed our kids, not because we are all about the TSA. Although I do think some of this is overboard.


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