# I just threw my kids' toys out the front door!!!



## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

My heart is racing, I'm winded, and so so so so furious. I've been working with my 4.5 yo DDs to help clean up after themselves for several months and still, they just laugh and play and say OK but don't actually DO the cleaning up. I'm so pi$$ed right now !!!!!

So I did the couch meeting telling them the situation: I see things laying all over the house that need put away. I see daddy and I picking up all day long while asking for help from DDs to no avail. What are their ideas to help?

Idea #1 is for the two DDs to dance to the Christmas music while cleaning up the living room together.
Idea #2 is to go into one room at a time and clean up together.

They vote for Idea #1 and I say I'll give it a try.

About five minutes into it, and many many specific directions from me, they still have not put away any toys. So I say, We tried this idea, and now let's try the other one. The music must be distracting. And I turned it off.

I gave specific instructions of toys to bring down to the playroom. They took them down but left them sitting at the bottom of the stairs and played sliding down the stairs for awhile. I told them TWICE to take the toys from the landing and put them away. We have places for every toy. Put them away. "OK" and put one thing away. I walk away and they're back to sliding down the stairs laughing while the toys lay there.

I said, "I am so frustrated that I feel like gathering your toys and throwing them out the front door! Go down and put them away, now." "OK," they said. A few minutes later the toys are still on the landing and they are sliding down the stairs laughing and playing.

I lost it!!! I said, "Enough." and walked down, gathered the toys and threw them out the front door. They cried and DH went to discuss this with them. Meanwhile I'm so mad. I don't like being this way. I need help, because I feel so much like they take for granted that they can make a mess and never clean it up. I've been patiently working with them for months on this. They only clean up once I've lost it and get really mad.

Someone, please respond even if you think it's been answered elsewhere, I need some personal help here. Thank you.

RRRRRRR,
CurlyTop


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Can't read without giving you hugs
I can't give any advice, but I know that feeling. And it sucks.
I really hope that someone can give you some really good advice here!

I guess the only thing I can say is to think of something really good about your kids, to help yourself calm down.
Do they help you out in other ways, that don't involve toys?


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

:

Sorry but no advice as I would have done the same thing, or put their toys in garbage bags and wait a while beofre giving them one by one back to my kids.


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## funkygranolamama (Aug 10, 2005)

I would suggest putting their toys all in storage bins and only allow one out at the time. Every week or so just rotate them out. Then at least if they won't pick up there won't be quite as much stuff laying around.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Hugs to you. I can feel your frustration...maybe they still need you to pick up with them? That's how Supernanny does it...or a chart with stickers or some other incentive to cleaning up? And every 10/20 stickers they can "cash in" for 1/2 hour of special mommy time or a treat...They don't pick up, they don't get a sticker, etc...


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Yes, they are really helpful actually. I think what's rubbed me wrong here is I work so hard to be a respectful parent, to offer choices and be relaxed in my timeframes for having things done, and even err often on the permissive side (according to close friends opinions at least) and then I just feel like, Man! I'm just a total maid here and ultimately I am the one who cares if their crap is off the floor since I'm the one who trips on it and feels like I can't think straight due to the chaotic physical nature of the mess in my house and guess what? I'm gonna end up cleaning it in the end, and then have only myself to blame that they won't do it.

Whew, what the h... did I just write? Well, maybe someone can help with this: how to be a respectful and gentle teacher while living in a home environment that doesn't make me mad?


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Holy cross posts!









Well, that's just the thing. I don't want to be like Supernanny (no offense) and use rewards and punishments to shape their behavior, but I do want them to learn from my "gentle discipline" aka teaching. Is that so wrong?

I usually just keep patiently going with my belief that they are people with their own timetables and resorting to behavior management is not an option. Then I feel like a dolt when I go stark raving and toss a naked babydoll, soccer ball, and who-knows-what out the front door.

FTR, this is my first time throwing toys. ... RRR


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Lots of sympathy here. Especially since you have two! One makes more than enough mess! My ds is 3, so the issues may not be exactly the same, but what we do is:

We take away toys that are repeatedly left in a mess (our biggest problem is with lego, lincoln logs, other things with small pieces). They go to the basement for a few days.

We ask ds to put away one thing before moving onto the next (and sometimes hold onto the thing we know he wants next). It seems that the messier things get, the harder it is for him to tidy. He will just sit in the middle of the toys looking bewildered.

We also allow our ds to keep his room pretty messy - we only get tough about toys in communal living space.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mavery* 
Lots of sympathy here. Especially since you have two! One makes more than enough mess! My ds is 3, so the issues may not be exactly the same, but what we do is:

We take away toys that are repeatedly left in a mess (our biggest problem is with lego, lincoln logs, other things with small pieces). They go to the basement for a few days.

We ask ds to put away one thing before moving onto the next (and sometimes hold onto the thing we know he wants next). It seems that the messier things get, the harder it is for him to tidy. He will just sit in the middle of the toys looking bewildered.

We also allow our ds to keep his room pretty messy - we only get tough about toys in communal living space.

I hear you. I've always wanted to try and follow through with the notion of one toy at a time. We've discussed it, but I have to be like militant following them around to see if they've started playing something else. I don't know what I am doing wrong here. Seriously, what?

The mess in my house is paper, tape, scissors - scraps of snowflakes all over the floor, with the scissors and tape strung out everywhere, crayons under the kitchen table, crafty stuff all over the kitchen. Then in the living room, they bring toys up from the playroom because, well, DH and I are up here, life is up here, and I've got this insane notion of having the main floor clear and presentable, and not an obstacle course. No way, though, they make forts with the sofas, pillows, blankets, they take their little wood table and chairs and make them into airplanes, school rooms, etc, and spread a board game across the floor and insist it needs to stay there because they're using it.

Their room doesn't have toys in it, so it can be a restful place, but instead of toys it is clothes on the floor. And blanket forts, etc, which never get picked up.

I hope someone can tell me, should I just know it is normal kid behaviour, or find a new way to encourage participation in keeping the house fun and functional?


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

I too have been frustrated about this! I have a 3yr old. and 18 month old and they will go up to their room and dup out all 24 toy bins in a huge pile and then dd will tell me "it's for the monkey's mom".







:







at the same time! I can't tell her to go clean it b/c like pp said she just doesn't know where to start, so we have to do it together and I have to specifically tell her to pick up the books, or hand me that animal!

I like pp idea of only having 1 bin at a time (out). Why do I have all those toys out? If you rotated 1 or 2 bins every week they'd be more interested w/the toys and they'd be easier to clean up.

Ok, after I posted I realized you just did too...you know my first thought when reading your last post is you should be happy that they entertain and play like that! I wish my kids would do that more!

I also agree about not caring about their room being so clean anymore. Why bother, but in my family room and kitchen it drives me nuts!







:


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimiharshe* 
but in my family room and kitchen it drives me nuts!







:

Me, too! Maybe I have some kind of disorder but I can't stand stepping over things to get around the living room and kitchen. I even instituted a "no fly zone" between my sink, fridge, and stove so I could stop having them sneak up and stand literally right behind my legs silently waiting for me to turn with a boiling pot of water. RRRRR!


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
Me, too! Maybe I have some kind of disorder but I can't stand stepping over things to get around the living room and kitchen. I even instituted a "no fly zone" between my sink, fridge, and stove so I could stop having them sneak up and stand literally right behind my legs silently waiting for me to turn with a boiling pot of water. RRRRR!

ok, it's good to know i'm not the only one going crazy lately! what's gotten into me? all of a sudden i am frustrated lately so much more than ever before. do you have help? do you get breaks? i think sometimes if we dont' have any outlet everything starts getting frustrating and then we are would so tight. whereas if we have a break, we miss the kids, catch our breath and can dive back in head first w/o losing it!


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## maxwill129 (May 12, 2005)

Oh, man, this has been a huge frustration of mine, too! I have a 4 and 2 (well, a baby, too, but he doesn't make a mess yet!) and I nanny for a 3 and 1 year old. I have realized that I have to be on the kids all day they take out all toys and don't put away (just like you said). I've started the rule where they can play in one room. When they are done alnd want to move somewhere else to play, the room gets picked up first. They do the work, I direct them (sorry, direct is a bad word, but can't think of what I'm trying to say nicely!). One day it did take us a long time to clean up the playroom because they made a huge mess, but then multiple rooms don't get messed up at once and there's not the overwhelming task of cleaning up a whole room!

Anyway, hang in there!

Shannon


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Try using a timer during clean up tasks. Set it for maybe 5-15 minutes. The time should be short enough that the children don't get distracted but long enough that they don't get discouraged. If any toys are still out after the timer goes off, then you put them "away" where the children can't use them for a week. The timer itself can make the activity like a game, so children usually respond to that aspect. Losing the toys that aren't put away is a logical consequence to not cleaning up.

Also the children may be getting overwhelmed by clean up tasks. It helps to have them do several small clean up times a day, rather then one big one at the end. If they have to clean up one activity before moving to the next than they will feel motivated to clean up, so that they can start the next activity.

These are ideas I have tried with my preschool students, and they often help. Good Luck.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimiharshe* 
ok, it's good to know i'm not the only one going crazy lately! what's gotten into me? all of a sudden i am frustrated lately so much more than ever before. do you have help? do you get breaks? i think sometimes if we dont' have any outlet everything starts getting frustrating and then we are would so tight. whereas if we have a break, we miss the kids, catch our breath and can dive back in head first w/o losing it!









Good points, plus the holiday craze. I've made a special effort to simplify this Christmas but I think sometimes I relive some past crapola even subconsciously and it affects my resilience.

Looking up at my OP I'm really kind of laughing. For heaven's sake, it's not the end of the world (that the house is messy, or that I tossed a pile of toys out the front door). Neither has to mean I'm a bad mom (for living with a mess or for having emotions get away with me). I'm starting to really calm down.

I am curious how people (MAMADUCK, YOU OUT THERE?) reconcile GD with needing some cooperation.

Peace,
CurlyTOp


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

dd just took the lid off of a bottle of lotion and said, "u want some?" and proceeded to pour it out on top of my arm! me: "no, no, no, what are you doing?" (in a suprised voice). ran to bathroom to clean it up and realized it's my fault for being the computer and ignoring her telling em she wants to go to bed! i smiled at her and gave her a towel to go clean it which to her meant laying it down on top of the mess! awwww...kids....


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

OK, I asked a question at the end of my last post, and an answer came via reading through the GD forum. This article was recommended and actually made me think, cry, laugh, and get a second drink









I subscribe to the NVC way, truly. My desire is to build connection with my kids and to treat them as people, not in the way MR describes some people's interpretation of Children. I get hung up on expectations, though. It's unreasonable to expect a 4.5 yo to really truly accept that we both have needs. Isn't it? My role right now is modeling NVC for her, with her. But I am told by a trusted friend that my girls whine because I "give them what they want." When I disagreed, she said I'm giving them "attention." I told her that attention is a valid need, and I'm not giving them the toy or candy or whatever they are whining about, but instead acknowledging their wants, validating how they feel, but not giving in to it. She told me I don't seem to know when a child needs listened to (because I was not listened to when I was a child, and I therefore never learned to differentiate between a real need to be listened to and a ... I don't remember what word she used ... but the gist was that they actually just needed to be told to move on, and not "coddled.").

So, who can help me. How can I use NVC but not encourage more whining just to get my attention?

Oh, I thought of something. I'm afraid I'm guilty of being "here" but not really here, IYKWIM. Like I'm on MDC and don't want to play or talk. Or I just want to clean up without stopping to play at all. I think I believe I'll be able to have fun when it all gets done. Maybe that's the crux. Maybe I am mad that they are having so much fun while I'm trying to hurry and get things done so I can have fun too?

Anyone relate to anything I'm saying? I could use some sounding walls.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Are sticker charts not GD? I can't keep up...I don't really know anything about this stuff, but you wanted replies, so I gave it my best shot.


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## nova22 (Jun 26, 2004)

Ugh! I can sympathize!







I remember one particular day when I was pregnant with #3, and #1 and #2 were getting toys EVERYWHERE. They seemed to have a complete inability to play with one toy without first taking every other toy out and tossing them all over the place. After many attempts at keeping the living room clean, I totally snapped and went though the room with a 30 gallon garbage bag, tossing everything inside. The poor kids were beside themselves thinking I was throwing away their toys (I wasn't - I just wanted them off the floor and was out of ideas!). I then called DH at work, sobbing "I AM SO MEAN!" In the background the kids were sobbing "I WANT MY TOYS!"

After we all had calmed down I sat with the kids and had a talk about the toys. It frustrates Mommy when they're all over the floor, we need to work together to keep this room clean, etc. They're just toddlers so I had to work hard to find the words that would convey my point, but not go over their heads.

Since then I've tried to emphasize the importance of spending five minutes straightening up every once in a while. If I see things getting out of control, I say, "Let's take a quick clean-up break before we play any more." They're usually very compliant; five minutes doesn't take much away from your playtime. Or, if one of them is missing a special toy, I help them straighten up the toys that are out, and explain that it's easier to find toys when everything is put away.

I don't think you're doing ANYTHING wrong. We tried the "one toy at a time" policy here, and it just does not work. It severely limited their toys' play value, as well as the kids' creativity. If you can't play with your bean bag balls and your duplo blocks at the same time, how can you build giant buckets and throw the bean bags in?







The five minute cleaning intervals work well here, too, because if you suddenly realize that there are ten toys out and your DC is going for another one, you can take a quick cleaning break first. And yes, we sing the "clean up, clean up, everybody everywhere" song.









ETA this was in response to your original post; we x-posted with the last ones


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 









I didn't say anything about punishment. If they choose not to clean up, they don't get a sticker. Are sticker charts not GD? I can't keep up...

Betsy, my experience is that rewards are really just the other side of the punishment coin. See Alfie Kohn (Punished by Rewards) and the article I linked to above on the Nonviolent Communications website. I think I threw in the word punishment out of my own interpretation of sticker charts, and didn't mean to say YOU advocate punishment. I sure don't want you to feel bad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nova22*
Since then I've tried to emphasize the importance of spending five minutes straightening up every once in a while. If I see things getting out of control, I say, "Let's take a quick clean-up break before we play any more." They're usually very compliant; five minutes doesn't take much away from your playtime. Or, if one of them is missing a special toy, I help them straighten up the toys that are out, and explain that it's easier to find toys when everything is put away.


This is brilliant, and I will try it tomorrow (Christmas Eve. Oh my!). I need to slow down and do the five minute clean up with them, that is the only way. DH says I have COD (compulsive optimization disorder, he made it up). I try to be efficient, and I think that isn't likely in human interactions !

And if you want an alternative to that clean up song, see Ralph's World Happy Lemons CD for a nice, less Barney version !


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
OK, I asked a question at the end of my last post, and an answer came via reading through the GD forum. This article was recommended and actually made me think, cry, laugh, and get a second drink









I subscribe to the NVC way, truly. My desire is to build connection with my kids and to treat them as people, not in the way MR describes some people's interpretation of Children. I get hung up on expectations, though. It's unreasonable to expect a 4.5 yo to really truly accept that we both have needs. Isn't it? My role right now is modeling NVC for her, with her. But I am told by a trusted friend that my girls whine because I "give them what they want." When I disagreed, she said I'm giving them "attention." I told her that attention is a valid need, and I'm not giving them the toy or candy or whatever they are whining about, but instead acknowledging their wants, validating how they feel, but not giving in to it. She told me I don't seem to know when a child needs listened to (because I was not listened to when I was a child, and I therefore never learned to differentiate between a real need to be listened to and a ... I don't remember what word she used ... but the gist was that they actually just needed to be told to move on, and not "coddled.").

So, who can help me. How can I use NVC but not encourage more whining just to get my attention?

That's not a very helpful thing for a friend to say, IMO. How can she know if your boundaries are being upheld? They're YOUR boundaries, it's YOUR relationship with YOUR daughters. If YOU feel like they're being crossed, that's one thing, but how can she tell?

As far as the toys go, I'd try being less Supernanny and more Mary Poppins. If they have a whole playroom to themselves, I'd still take half of the toys out and put them in storage. They'll have more fun with the ones that are there, anyway, and it'll be way less stressful. Then, I'd just plan on being present with them and actively trying to keep them organizing the whole time you want them to clean, and plan on doing a lot of it after they're in bed. Think how long it takes you to get all that stuff organized, with all your years of experience, organizational, and fine motor skills. I think it'll be a few years before they can really, really clean up all their toys.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Are sticker charts not GD? I can't keep up...I don't really know anything about this stuff, but you wanted replies, so I gave it my best shot.

Thank you Betsy! Your reply is thoughtful and I appreciate it. It's not you, it's me! I have issues with Jo Jo







:


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## nova22 (Jun 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
And if you want an alternative to that clean up song, see Ralph's World Happy Lemons CD for a nice, less Barney version !









Oh, thank you, you just gave me the best Christmas present.







I'm not a fan of that song but it was all I could think of, and my kids are so much more willing to listen to me if I'm singing!


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
That's not a very helpful thing for a friend to say, IMO. How can she know if your boundaries are being upheld? They're YOUR boundaries, it's YOUR relationship with YOUR daughters. If YOU feel like they're being crossed, that's one thing, but how can she tell?

I should add that she's the teacher at my girls' co-op preschool. She was trying to help me, as I was whinging on about how I hate the sound of their whining. I can't fault her for offering the advice, but it made me question my attempt to always offer a compassionate ear to my kids. Does it "condition" them to whine more? What do you think?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah*
I think it'll be a few years before they can really, really clean up all their toys.

Thanks for that. I always wonder what's appropriate as far as my expectations.


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## Chanley (Nov 19, 2001)

I dont think that sticker charts are NOT gd, but we do not use them on principle here.

This is an issue that we struggle with at times. I find sticker charts to be pretty patronizing and demeaning. if my dh started a sticker chart for me where he gave me stickers for the days that the laundry gets folded as soon as it was out of the dryer, I would get pretty violent. The real value in cleaning up is taht our things are taken care of and we can find them when we need them AND our environment is safer and easier to enjoy.

We do set a timer and work in 5 min intervals. Sometimes we play beat the clock. Sometimes we have a contest to see how fast we can pick things up, my oldest is very competitive so we make a deal. I estimate how long I think it is goign to take to pick up and she gives me her estimation. we get bonus minutes for helping the 3 yr old help us.

I have found, that if *I* help them pick up, they do a much better job.

Now that my dd is 6, I am pondering the idea of charging her money for the hours I spend cleaning up her room. She has this habit of strewing clothes all over the floor and her closet...ugh! I am pondering charging her by the hour. I am a work at home mom and I pay her to help me by the hour with some of my work. So I am thinking that I am going to charge her some of her earned money for those times when I have to clean up the mess that she makes in her room when it gets to the point where I cannot walk to her bed without tripping or breaking things. Her time is valuable to me and I want my time to be valuable to her. Her room needs to be clean enough that I can walk to her if she needs me.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nova22* 
Oh, thank you, you just gave me the best Christmas present.







I'm not a fan of that song but it was all I could think of, and my kids are so much more willing to listen to me if I'm singing!

Yes, me too! To tune of "I feel pretty": I see socks! Many socks! They are on the floor not the hamper!

Cracks them up and keeps me from yelling, my autopilot response.

Merry Christmas!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Now that we've moved to a bigger house and the kids have their own space (woo hoo!), we don't allow toys that aren't being actively played with outside of the kids' playroom. Once their bedrooms are finally set up, they will be able to pick specific toys to keep there.

But toys don't travel here. There was stuff all over the place at our old house and it drove me nuts. I wasn't a nice person. So the kids are allowed to play with something in the living or dining room, but it can't be left there.


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

well first.... this is normal behavior for 4.5year olds







My 5.5 year old still needs help cleaning up because she just has no desire to. I think its just a personality trait... I dont like cleaning... neither do my girls









Since it obviously does bother you, here are some ideas....
1. Find a desginated "clean up" song.... you can rotate it each month or every couple of months... but find a fun song that you can put on that signifies its clean up time. I would say that maybe once a day (maybe at the end of the day after dinner) .. put the clean up song on and try to motivate them to help you clean up... dont just tell them to and expect them to do it. I think that at 4.5 they still need a parent with them and keeping them on task, even making it fun for them if necessary.

2. to make clean up easier on you.... just get a couple of baskets.... put one basket in each room and have the girls and you put the toys into those baskets. Then you can take the baskets downstairs to be sorted or put away later. I think toys that have specific spots can be overwhelming for kids to remember and they often get frustrated with it. The basket idea has worked well for us.

3. To tie in with the baskets, if my girls are being particular stubborn we make a game of it. I give each of them their own basket, turn on the clean up music and tell them "lets see how many toys we can get in our own basket before the song ends" ..... I play to and it always makes for a good time around here









I dont know if you have tried any of those idea, but maybe not!

oops, a ton of people posted while I was off getting the girls to bed, so please ignore if anything I said was redundant


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Are sticker charts not GD? I can't keep up...I don't really know anything about this stuff, but you wanted replies, so I gave it my best shot.

Sticker charts would fall under the GD category, I'm pretty sure. There are just a lot of us here that don't use punishments/rewards, that's all.

She definitely needed replies, and I'm sure every reply on here has helped her in one way or another, whether it's giving her new ideas, or helping solidify beliefs that she already had, or just plain helping her calm down!


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

Quote:

Oh, I thought of something. I'm afraid I'm guilty of being "here" but not really here, IYKWIM. Like I'm on MDC and don't want to play or talk. Or I just want to clean up without stopping to play at all. I think I believe I'll be able to have fun when it all gets done. Maybe that's the crux. Maybe I am mad that they are having so much fun while I'm trying to hurry and get things done so I can have fun too?

Anyone relate to anything I'm saying? I could use some sounding walls.
I can entirely relate to what you are saying







I often have days where I am just tired and don't have the energy to be as "present" as I want to be and I find that those days are the hardest days to get through with cooperation as well. Its something I am working on!


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
Sticker charts would fall under the GD category, I'm pretty sure. There are just a lot of us here that don't use punishments/rewards, that's all.

She definitely needed replies, and I'm sure every reply on here has helped her in one way or another, whether it's giving her new ideas, or helping solidify beliefs that she already had, or just plain helping her calm down!

True! Every word !









Patchymama, thanks for those ideas. Baskets... Song...







:

I have to tell you, these girls are _amazing_ in their desire and efforts to help clean up. I'm chagrined to say, since I flipped out about them NOT cleaning tonight, but get this:

- They like to vacuum with my canister vac with the handle shortened to their height. They'll go all over the place, one picking up toys that the other points out so "nu nu" won't suck them up.

- They enjoy using squirt bottles and old pre-folds to clean the kitchen floor. They squirt the floor (and sometimes each other) before scooting around on their bottoms on the prefolds to clean the floor.

- They often set the table and even clear the table without being asked.

- They sometimes make their bed without being asked.

- They often respond to my NVC statements about needing some order in the house by putting things in their place. Not every time, but sometimes.








: There, now you know, I completely and utterly over-reacted tonight.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Oh, and I brought their toys back in a few minutes ago. I'll put them away....


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## Chanley (Nov 19, 2001)

I totally get that. Sometimes I am a big ole scrooge and I forget to see teh situation from thier POV.

It does help to get down on the floor with them and comiserate. 'Cleaning up REALLY sucks, I HATE cleaning up. Ya know what else I hate doing? Really gross dishes, like the ones we have after eating sloppy spaghetti."

Once we can get the conversation going, we are on the same side of the fence. Co-operation can only happen when we are a united front.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a friend who told me that while she was growing up that they had a "til tuesday box". When mom told them to pick up the toys within a certain time frame and they didn't do it, the toys went into the TT box and they didn't get them until the next tuesday. So if it is tuesday morning, they went for a week without their toys. Since your DD's are so young, you might even be able to do it for 24 or 48 hours, enough for them to get the point that they will lose what they like if it doesn't stay picked up. Also, I would severely limit their selection of toys to begin with. If there is stuff all over the house then they are having access to too many toys to begin with. PP's suggested, and I agree, to have a box of toys and then rotate. In the end it sounds like they are typical 4 yo's and are easily distracted, and that will go away as they mature and can do a better job of staying on task. ((((((((((HUGS)))))))), it will get better.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chanley* 

Now that my dd is 6, I am pondering the idea of charging her money for the hours I spend cleaning up her room. She has this habit of strewing clothes all over the floor and her closet...ugh! I am pondering charging her by the hour. I am a work at home mom and I pay her to help me by the hour with some of my work. So I am thinking that I am going to charge her some of her earned money for those times when I have to clean up the mess that she makes in her room when it gets to the point where I cannot walk to her bed without tripping or breaking things. Her time is valuable to me and I want my time to be valuable to her. Her room needs to be clean enough that I can walk to her if she needs me.

Just wanted to second that idea for older kids too. I have a 13 yo who can get pretty lazy about cleaning his room. I finally sat him down and told him that if I didn't do my job at work, my boss would have to pay someone else to do it, and that would be taken out of my paycheck ( or in the end I would be fired and not paid at all) and that I was implementing the same principle here at home. If I had to do his job, meaning clean up his room, he would have to pay me for it out of his allowance, based upon the amount of time I had to spend doing his work for him. He tested the theory a few times and decided it was better to get paid himself for the cleaning job and we don't have a problem anymore.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
I have a friend who told me that while she was growing up that they had a "til tuesday box".

Totally OT, but man, the Til Tuesday song "Voices Carry" is so in my head now. I love that song







(memories.....)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman Michelle*
In the end it sounds like they are typical 4 yo's and are easily distracted, and that will go away as they mature and can do a better job of staying on task. ((((((((((HUGS)))))))), it will get better.


Thanks for that, I really needed a hug.







:


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## lizabird (Jan 19, 2004)

Oooh, we're just getting into this. DS has just turned 3 and I think it's time he learned to take responsibility for putting his own toys away. I am always trying to get rid of things, thinking that the fewer toys we have the fewer toys will be on the floor, but that never seems to work. I can totally see myself losing it and throwing them all out the door someday!









Sorry I don't have any great tried-and-true advice for you, but I guess just modeling the action and behavior you want to instill in your kids is probably best (oh, I guess that means I should try not to throw toys out the door...







: ). It looks like other mamas had some good ideas worth trying. Good luck!


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I think this has already been said, but my take on this is your DDs just needed help. I'm thinking they're not mature enough yet to be told to do a task and then left alone to do it. Especially not when they probably distract each other! My son is only 3 -- when it's time to clean up I do it with him. Sometimes I even hand him toys one at a time from off the floor and tell him exactly where to put each one (in a basket). It seems like it would be obvious but I think to their little brains it's not. I remember lots of times being sent to my room to clean it, as a little kid, and being told I couldn't come out until it was clean, or even being spanked for not cleaning it up--but honestly, I didn't have the maturity or cognitive skills or whatever to see the job of cleaning up the room as a bunch of individual tasks I needed to do one at a time. And this would have been at age 6 or 7, even. I really needed help and direction to learn this.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Curly Top







I'm here -- but you are sounding better by the end of this thread!

Someday, your girls are going to look at each other and say, _"Remember when Mom threw our toys out the front door?"_ Then they are both going to start laughing and giggling!







It will probably be around the time that they have 4 yo. children at home!

I think you've already gotten all the advice here that you could have. It sounds like you have a plan. Five minute clean ups throughout the day are really important -- I try not to let things get overwhelming. Its important to supervise and "catch" them before they take out 2nd and 3rd activities without putting away the first, and remind them to put away the first.

Sometimes, if I can't supervise, I send my kids to "Throw away 10 things, and put away 10 things," in a specific room. They sort of get into this challenge, and they enjoy coming to "report." It makes things a little better.

My kids are weird in that they like things clean and tidy. So I don't feel entirely qualified to give advice.... I think I've got it easy on this count. OTOH -- my Dh is a slob, so maybe I can relate after all!


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

Curlytop~ I have twin boys and what you describe was exactly what my life was like! They are nine now and things have improved but I still have to go into their rooms with them and help them clean. That is true with all of my children, even the teenagers, not just the twins. Sometimes I go in by myself and throw away stuff and they never even notice.

The problem is too much stuff. Thin it out, give it away to charity, throw it in the trash, whatever you need to do. If you think they really need it then put half away in the top of the closet and rotate it.

The other part of this is at this age they really do need more stimulation and structured play. Are they in any preschool programs? That saved my life! A few hours alone each day helped me have the attitude I wanted to have as a mom and the time with other kids made them so exhausted that they were like lumps of playdough afterwards and not as rumbunctious in the house.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh, CT -- here is another idea that I meant to suggest...

I hear you about being opposed to rewards, charts, etc. and I agree with you on principle. But something I have taught my kids is that sometimes its nice to reward *ourselves* for finding the willpower to do something that we lack real motivation about. So, in your situation, I might say, _"This is a hard job that nobody feels like doing. Sometimes, it helps to have something that we like doing to look foward to afterwards. What can we plan for ourselves, to celebrate being finished?"_ Usually the kids talk about planning to play a board game together, or having a tea party together, etc. It can be nice to have that in mind while while we are working.

I'm careful *not* to phrase it as an "If, then." "When, then..." works much better for us because there is no option not to get the work done.

I've noticed my kids picking up on this conept for self- monitering too. Ten yo. ds will say something like, _"I'm going to homework for 30 minutes, and then I'm going to treat myself to a 1/2 hour TV show before I finish."_ Or whatever he has in mind...


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
DH says I have COD (compulsive optimization disorder, he made it up). I try to be efficient, and I think that isn't likely in human interactions !


Your scenario describes my life too. Messes, messes everywhere!! I become immobilized by it. I can't cook, I can't get the girls dressed for the day, I can't get any household tasks completed because I'm so overwhelmed by the toy/craft mess. Drives me up the wall! I had my own breakdown this week threatening to box up the toys and give them to kids who will actually take care of them by putting them away. Later I felt very silly.

The quote about efficiency struck me because I place such a high value on being efficient. It's engrained in my personality or something. Why clean up in small spurts throughout the day? When we clean up, we clean up! Then it's done!! Obviously it just doesn't work that way in a house with small kids. It's very challenging to me. How can I find a sense of order and efficiency when everything around me is so messy and inefficient? For my mental health I need _something_ to be efficient.

Thanks for posting. It makes me feel less alone and neurotic.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

I am in the middle of downsizing big time. (Like, we're seriously considering leaving our small/midsize house to a small/even smaller cottage or one bedroom apartment in the uber expensive town we grew up in.) I've been going to Ikea and organizing and for dd's I got the idea of stackable containers from their catalogue.
Conversation with a grandma and a mom in the store:
Me, very enthusiastic, "These one's are only ninety-nine cents. They don't have lids but they stack like this."
"So, you kind of have to get their toys for them?" Our kids our very little--her son is three and my dd just turned four.
"Yeah, I thought it might be annoying to have her not be able to access everything but it's actually really nice. She can't get everything out at once and if she wants something new out I can say, 'Sure I'll get [whatever] out, but first put away your ponies.' "
They looked at me like I was a wacko but I tell you it totally works. I don't make her have only one toy at a time because like someone else said, how else can she have her little animals ride in the Brio train cars if I only let her have one thing at a time? But it does cut down on her have ALL her toys out at once.

Oh, the best advice I got from a mainstream parenting magazine was to have some sort of system to be able to tidy up the kids' playroom in ten minutes. That works for me. Somehow it makes me feel less avalanched in by toys.

Also, I think your reaction is normal! One day a few months back I was so cross that I put her toys in a box and told her they'd have to stay there for a week. (My friend used to do that with her kid.) It didn't work for us--I felt like crap and she didn't figure out to clean up. Anyhow, the Ikea-slightly-inaccesible-containers work for us right now.


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

aren't we all so blessed to even be having these "problems"..too much space, too many toys, kids who can play?







:

just a thought.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Okay, we have a really nice system here...donning flame proof suit...Most of our toys are downstairs but they bring up a few tubs to rotate as upstairs toys. These tubs usually have millions of pieces, animals, cars, etc. They play to their hearts' content but a couple of times a day, I sweep the house. All the rooms. Anything swept up goes into the garbage. We have worked up to this point. They understand that stuff on the floor can get stepped on & broken or hurt our feet. They understand that stuff on the floor gets mixed with dog hair, cat litter from the cats' feet, crumbs, dirt, etc.
So, yeah, they may leave their stuff out but when I announce I'm about to sweep, they swoop into action. And, yes, I've always modeled by making sure dh and my "stuff" gets put away into their correct spots, too. We all make a check before the sweeping.
It's not punishment. It's not kids vs parents. It's just keeping a clean & safe house.

I'm happy as a pig in a dirty, finger printed house but I HATE clutter. So, yeah, our house is pretty darn tidy and I truly never have to harass my kids at all.


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BusyMommy* 
Okay, we have a really nice system here...donning flame proof suit...Most of our toys are downstairs but they bring up a few tubs to rotate as upstairs toys. These tubs usually have millions of pieces, animals, cars, etc. They play to their hearts' content but a couple of times a day, I sweep the house. All the rooms. Anything swept up goes into the garbage. We have worked up to this point. They understand that stuff on the floor can get stepped on & broken or hurt our feet. They understand that stuff on the floor gets mixed with dog hair, cat litter from the cats' feet, crumbs, dirt, etc.
So, yeah, they may leave their stuff out but when I announce I'm about to sweep, they swoop into action. And, yes, I've always modeled by making sure dh and my "stuff" gets put away into their correct spots, too. We all make a check before the sweeping.
It's not punishment. It's not kids vs parents. It's just keeping a clean & safe house.

I'm happy as a pig in a dirty, finger printed house but I HATE clutter. So, yeah, our house is pretty darn tidy and I truly never have to harass my kids at all.

interesting. i could see how you could work up to that and keep it from being a bad experience! cool.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
I subscribe to the NVC way, truly. My desire is to build connection with my kids and to treat them as people, not in the way MR describes some people's interpretation of Children. I get hung up on expectations, though. It's unreasonable to expect a 4.5 yo to really truly accept that we both have needs. Isn't it? My role right now is modeling NVC for her, with her.

So, who can help me. How can I use NVC but not encourage more whining just to get my attention?

Oh, I thought of something. I'm afraid I'm guilty of being "here" but not really here, IYKWIM. Like I'm on MDC and don't want to play or talk. Or I just want to clean up without stopping to play at all. I think I believe I'll be able to have fun when it all gets done. Maybe that's the crux. Maybe I am mad that they are having so much fun while I'm trying to hurry and get things done so I can have fun too?

Guilty of being here but not really here, too. That is something of a habit I have to break. I get worried, preoccupied, stuck on "if I just get these dishes done, or this post finished, or this floor swept _then_ I'll have time to play/I'll be happy/life will be great..."

It helps me to remember that NVC is fundamentally about creating a _quality of connection_ that enables us all to give freely of ourselves and to get needs met. So it's not about somehow conveying that I have a need for help, in just the right way that causes my kids to want to recognize my needs and want to help. It's about creating the _connection_ that allows us all to give freely. If the kids and I are really connecting, I'm present and not just bodily here and mentally elsewhere or rushing around, and I'm giving freely of myself to them (without resentment or feeling of martyrdom), then it just happens....they help, to the best of their abilities, and we have a good time together. And also, if we have that connection (and I'm taking care of myself) and they only pick up 3 toys then start sliding down the stairs, it's not really all that big a deal.


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

:

i lost it a few days ago and threw a few of ds1's toys out his window for the same reason







:


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## mimiharshe (Oct 16, 2006)

hey, i slammed my dd's door the other day...it was awful. we are human and we learn from these moments to do better next time. i know my dd loves me and i apologized and she forgave me and we cuddled. it doesn't undo all the good they see in us!


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## 3happygirls (Feb 4, 2006)

I haven't read all the replies, so sorry if I repeat any. I'm DEFNITELY no "clean up" expert and definitely not a GD expert, though I try. I, too, have two DD's in 02!!!







So, I can identify with the two of them playing more than helping and goofing off/getting distracted. I try not to "blame" a lot on their being twins, but I DO think that with one child (esp. an oldest) they are more inclined to want to emulate you (the parent) and "impress" you with cleaning up, etc. With twins, they are concerned with each other, making the other laugh, etc. They already have a built-in, no-strings-attached acceptance with that twin. They don't feel the need to work as hard at gaining favor with a parent (I KNOW, I KNOW...don't flame me for that. My kids don't have to gain favor with me, but that is a big motivation for a lot of kids to desire to clean up, IMO). Anyway, something to think about. That said, we do the "pick up 5 things" clean up rule. We all count and then dh or I usually say...I can pick up 10 things!!! and keep counting. We have one dd that will try to pick up 10 with us and one that will say, "I'm Done"!!







I feel your pain!!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I havent read the posts so far so I applogize if I'm repeating and I have one child so that of course changes things. But for my 4 year old we learned there could be no latter no end of day clean ups no gaps at all cause for HER its confusing and made things worse so. Her toys are all orginized into bins and we rotate toys so she never has a ton at once but she does ahve plenty. She must put away the toy she get out a soon as shes done beofre going to another not latter not at the end of the day but right away. We did it with her but shes good at doing it on her own now. Its the boundry she needed with this not only do we keep a somewhat tidy home but shes calmer she plays with what she has longer. Honestly I never thought I'd be soo "strict" about it but its really what she needs.


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## lovemyfamily6 (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *funkygranolamama* 
I would suggest putting their toys all in storage bins and only allow one out at the time. Every week or so just rotate them out. Then at least if they won't pick up there won't be quite as much stuff laying around.

I agree with this. I had one of these moments last week, only rather than throwing the toys out the front door, I practically had a nervous breakdown and sobbed in front of them. I'm pregnant, and I think the hormones may have had something to do with that part of it.







We have a 5 year old son and 3 1/2 year old twin sons and I was just fed up with them not helping.

Now I put like toys in bins in the front closet. Wooden blocks in one, train set in one, wedgits in one, musical instruments in one, magna tiles in one, etc. We have some things out all the time (bin of dinosaurs, balls, and cars). Other than that, if they want something, we'll get it out, but they have to put it all back in the bin before something else comes out.

They like to hear stories too, so in the last few days, I've started clean up and tell them I'm setting a timer. If they beat the timer, they each get to choose a story. If they don't beat the timer, I get to choose all three stories. I like that because I don't want to use reading as a "you don't get stories if you don't clean up" but they get stories either way, I'm just appealing to their competitive side.


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

I've only read the first few posts, so forgive me if this repeats someone else's suggestion . . . but what occurs to me is that they need supervised clean-up time. So instead of telling them to pick up and walking away, what might help is to ask them specificly and stay there with them until it's done. ie. "DD, can you put that blue ball back in its basket, please?" My kids usually help when I ask for specifics . . . but sometimes they say no.

Good luck, mama.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I have a 3 and 5 year old. This is what we do. We live in a small apartment, and toys every where drives me nuts nuts nuts!! So, as our day goes along, I will hand the kids their toys and make them put them in their room. Go put that in your room please, mommy cant walk there and too many toys... and off they go. I might gather one or two things and just toss them in the direction of where htey belong... toss the dollies near the dolly bucket, toss the blankies on their beds, toss the barbies near the barbie bucket, toss the cars near the car bucket, etc..

Now, when their rooms get super messy, we set the timer. We do a 15 minute clean up and we all clean together. Go clean up does not work, pick up your toys does not work, its the cleaning together that works. If you make it a race.. "lets see how much we can get done in 15 minutes" or "lets see if we can put everything away in 15 minutes" If you really want them to do the majority of the picking up, you could start with toys and then work on their beds or dressers or something while they finish the toys. At 4 1/2 they should have a good idea of where everything belongs. I think sometimes just your company will help. When we do the 15 minute pick up, my 5 year old is very independant on his side of the room, while I direct my 3 year old on where to put things. She is NOT an easy one... I have to constantly redirect her or she will just play. I am pretty firm with her that right now we are cleaning up, not playing, and she can play once we get most of it put away..

I also find the neater (clean) their room is, the more they play in it and for longer periods of time because its more fun for them to get things out again.... I try to keep everything together in buckets and baskets.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprildawn* 
Your scenario describes my life too. Messes, messes everywhere!! I become immobilized by it. I can't cook, I can't get the girls dressed for the day, I can't get any household tasks completed because I'm so overwhelmed by the toy/craft mess. Drives me up the wall! I had my own breakdown this week threatening to box up the toys and give them to kids who will actually take care of them by putting them away. Later I felt very silly.

The quote about efficiency struck me because I place such a high value on being efficient. It's engrained in my personality or something. Why clean up in small spurts throughout the day? When we clean up, we clean up! Then it's done!! Obviously it just doesn't work that way in a house with small kids. It's very challenging to me. How can I find a sense of order and efficiency when everything around me is so messy and inefficient? For my mental health I need _something_ to be efficient.

Thanks for posting. It makes me feel less alone and neurotic.










you guys really need to look up flylady online....

she is great and has super ideas for keeping your house neat and tidy, just a little bit a day!!!


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

Just wanted to say







, you are not alone. I'm winded & stressed today already. I've discussed fire hazards in having stuff piled up on the floor, we've tried the music/dancing thing too (hey! it works when I'm trying to motivate ME!







), I feel your pain.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angela&avery* 
you guys really need to look up flylady online!

I get flylady's emails. She's way more structured than my unstructured personality can handle. I do appreciate her idea of just doing a little a day. The problem for me, however, isn't so much keeping up with housework and maintaining my home. I've developed a system for that and it works pretty well. The problem is the mess the kids make -- daily & hourly -- that can get in the way of other tasks being completed. Really, for us, it comes down to us having too many toys. Pure excess. I've already boxed up a bunch of stuff and will clean out more as we find space for their new toys they got for christmas.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I think there are some tips somewhere on the actual Flylady website (not the emails) for teaching kids to clean up. Probably there is some overlap with this thread!

One thing I've read about and seen in preschools, that I haven't seen mentioned on this thread, is labelling bins/ drawers/ etc. with pictures to help remind kids what goes where. Like the picture off the box of Legos goes on the Legos bin.


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## funkygranolamama (Aug 10, 2005)

About the playing with one toy at the time thing..... I totally understand why that doesn't work. I could never do that as a child, and was punished often for it. I liked to pull all my coloring books out all at one time to compare the pictures and my mom caught me and said "one toy at the time!" and threw all my color books in the trash can IN MY ROOM!! I still can't play with one toy at the time as an adult, so I don't really find it realistic for children, either.


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## wildtigercubs (Jan 2, 2007)

Lol, subscribing to this thread (it's 11:20pm here right now) so I can read all tips tomorrow. I just had a total mental breakdown in another thread (I put it under the organisation forum but it probably should have gone here). I have DD8 and twin DD's4.3 and the twins are EXACTLY like yours. Mess EVERYWHERE!! Interest in one toy only seems to last about 5 seconds and it's onto the next. I spend all day chasing them around the house asking them to put stuff away (not once, not twice but a million times for each item). I have to stand there and direct them and watch cause sometimes they'll even pick something up but then I find it dumped on the floor somewhere else!! Or they "clean" their room but that just means they stick it all under the bed or under the doona or behind the cupboards. It's so completely infuriating







So for now you have my empathy completely. I could have written your post myself.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

This may have already been said, but I'll go ahead, and you ladies can throw stuff at me









Dd's teacher her first year of school (aka most amazing woman to ever walk the earth in my eyes) used to spend much of "clean up" time in class leading children who were a little..uh, preoccupied? to where the toy needed to be put back (child would carry the toy, she would hold the child's hand and walk them to the appropriate space - nicely of course).

I still have to do this with my dd sometimes. She has zero ability to stay focused between picking something up off the floor, and putting it where it belongs. She also takes a ton of different toys out and moves on to the next thing before putting the first away. She comes by this honestly, at any given time I'll have the baking supplies from the cookies I made hours ago still on the counter, my bag of knitting needles laid across the couch from when I was thinking about starting a project, and numerous other "toys" of mine all over the place. So I can't blame the poor kid









Dd also has no idea where to start with cleaning. I think we've probably all been there when we let a room cross over to the dark side for too long. This morning she decided she was going to clean her room (yay!) and had to come to me every few minutes so I could give her the next thing (put all the stuffed animals/blankets on your bed, put the dirty laundry in the hall, find all the little ponies and put them away) and on and on, until she got distracted by a toy she found under her bed, and now she's at a standstill







Sometimes when I need her to help me clean, we set a timer and do a "two minute tidy", or five, or whatever I think might get atleast something accomplished. And I still have to direct her because she's completely lost otherwise. I find the timer is great because we race to get as much done as possible before it goes off.

I'm sorry I don't have any great advice that will solve the problem, but wanted to say I've been there/here, I think I may be a permanent resident


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wildtigercubs* 
...So for now you have my empathy completely. I could have written your post myself.

Ah, I thank you for joining me - it's so much better with someone who's there too









Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
Dd's teacher her first year of school (aka most amazing woman to ever walk the earth in my eyes) used to spend much of "clean up" time in class leading children who were a little..uh, preoccupied? to where the toy needed to be put back (child would carry the toy, she would hold the child's hand and walk them to the appropriate space - nicely of course).

Two things: thanks for writing and letting me know your 7yo dd is still needing this. And, thanks for the wonderful idea of literally walking them through clean up. I love it. And I think it will work.

Last night, DH pulled a DW move and grabbed lawn-bags and threw a bunch of toys in them. DDs were "cleaning up" the toy room with his help (meaning he was sitting on the couch saying, "Hey! I said clean up!" every 30 seconds). DD2 told me afterwards that just before he flipped, she'd said to him "I don't see anything to put away now." I'm sure she meant that she didn't know what to put away next, but he was incensed that she was pretending to be unable to see her toys and thus decided to trash them. I can't throw stones, though, you know?? HOWEVER, we're going to talk tonight about age appropriate expectations, and that means what a 43 year old man can be expected to do to help the kids clean up! LOL.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Oh, boy, do I hear your frustration, mama! I haven't read the entire thread, but wanted to chime in here!

I have three girls (5.5, 3, and 14 months), and the mess they can make is astonishing! And it can, literally, take them hours to pick up what should be 5 minutes worth of work.

It gets more frustrating for me because I have seen both of the big kids (the baby is still, well, a baby) meticulously pick up, straighten and sort their toys before (when they're in the mood, obviously). I have lost it a few times with them about this! So, I feel for you.

I have a couple of things that I have been doing that have been working pretty well.

The thing that has been working the best has been to tell them to put 3 things away. They can be anything (a pencil counts), just so long as it is 3 things, and they are put away properly. After they do that, they can take a break. Throughout the day, I will tell them to put 3 more things away. Pretty soon, it's all picked up, and they don't feel like they have been overwhelmed, I don't feel stressed, and we have balance. This is, by far, the most successful tactic I have taken with the kids. They are also getting better at putting things back on their own, as it is being, gradually encorporated into their daily routine.

If I am getting total resistance and defiance, I will tell them that if they do not help, and if I am the one that must clean up, then some toys will go into toy time out. This is usually for a period of 24 hours (or so). Usually, they would prefer to clean up, but, they do sometimes opt for toy timeout. In order to get the toy out of timeout, they need to put it away.

Bec


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CurlyTop* 
I hear you. I've always wanted to try and follow through with the notion of one toy at a time. We've discussed it, but I have to be like militant following them around to see if they've started playing something else. I don't know what I am doing wrong here. Seriously, what?

This is funny. We've discussed the same thing. Only play with one thing at a time, then put it away. Only, with my kids, a lot of their pretend play uses multiple toys (they use their dress up clothes and bags, then go shopping at the play kitchen, then come out into the living room and set up the dolls with a picnic, taking out the blankets all the while. It's enough to make an adult







: But, when you really look at the play, it's really creative, involved, complicated, and cool. I want to encourage that, but, at the same time, I also want to organize my life so it is easy to maintain order!

One of the things that has really helped has been tupperware containers or bins. All the leggos are in one large bin. This makes it easy to pick up! The dolls are in one bag hanging on the wall. The play food is in a box. You get the idea. The other cool thing with bins, is that they are sealed! So, if you just don't have the energy for leggos today, it is easier to keep them out of sight and out of mind.

Bec


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## FLmom_3 (Jan 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sandrine* 







:

Sorry but no advice as I would have done the same thing, or put their toys in garbage bags and wait a while beofre giving them one by one back to my kids.

I tried this before and put the bag in the attic and told them they could earn them back one by one as I saw they were beginning to pick up after themselves throughout the day. Those toys stayed in the attic until we moved and they still didn't change a thing (of course, they had birthdays & Christmas right around the corner - maybe I should've taken those too?) My girls are VERY opinionated and strong willed & I at times feel at a loss of what to do myself. It just seems sometimes that regardless of the consequence or punishment (such as taking the toys), nothing works.


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