# Why AP?-- Looking for encouragement



## semomama (Jun 27, 2004)

I am in no way recommending CIO.

That said, why does there seem to be a bridge between the sleep habits of CIO babies and AP babies. Of course these are generalizations, but in my frustration (about dd's current poor sleep habits) it seems CIO babies are scheduled, predictable and well-rested (all things dd is not), while many AP babies are not.

I do not and will not CIO, but I am at a low point and am looking for all the positive reasons to AP. I know them in my heart, but would love to hear them. Also, it would be great to hear testimonies from AP mamas about how their dc is now a great sleeper.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

because CIO babies feel so abandoned in their cribs, that they know they will not "manipulate" their parents into picking them up, so why bother crying more, if no one is going to hear them? I think they feel like it's useless to cry, so they become scheduled and submit themselves to such an unnatural way of creating sleep habits.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

I think there is a myth that CIO is a magic bullet. Babies give up, stop crying, and sleep because they know their crying does no good. Eventually, they may recover and move on, but whenever there is a change in routine, disruption, illness, vacation, growth spurt, whatever, it's necessary to "retrain" the baby.

When you respond to your baby, teach your baby that her cries will be taken seriously, that you will love her and hold her and take care of her, she will grow with a security in her foundation, at the very core of her personality that will serve her throughout her life.

I don't have the great sleeper news for you yet. Maybe I never will. It may be that my dd1 is wired to be a crappy sleeper. But, she will grow knowing that she doesn't have to be scared and alone at night. She will know that there are people that love her and care for her, and that we, her parents will be there for her whenever she needs us.

Bec


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## spsmom (Jun 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bec*
I don't have the great sleeper news for you yet. Maybe I never will. It may be that my dd1 is wired to be a crappy sleeper. But, she will grow knowing that she doesn't have to be scared and alone at night. She will know that there are people that love her and care for her, and that we, her parents will be there for her whenever she needs us.

Bec

well said! that is almost verbatim what i was going to say.

my dh, 16 mo ds, and myself share a bed. and i won't lie, it can get frustrating at times when i hear my sil talk about her cio 17 mo who will go down for nap and night and sleep through the night while my ds is still waking every 2-3 hours to nurse. but all it takes is his sweet little hand to caress my chest and neck as he nurses himself back to sleep to realize what a beautiful thing this is. the cio babies must go into survival mode because they have been conditioned that way. ap takes a lot of love, energy, and patience. just remember that each night your precious little one sleeps by your side, the more confident and aware she becomes of her loving environment where she can feel safe, secure, and loved.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spsmom*
the cio babies must go into survival mode because they have been conditioned that way.

yep, well said. and some people think this has no future consecuences.. think again... I am seriously thinking there is a link between CIO with many, many adult problems! I am also a believer babies DO remember these things!


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

. . . And as a former "great sleeper" as a baby, who learned that nobody would respond to me, so I "slept well," I can now say that as an adult I am the worst sleeper I know. I haven't slept through the night in at least four years. I wake up with all kinds of anxieties and am unable to get back to sleep. I make a direct correlation between this and my unmet needs as a child (I have been relying on *myself* for comfort since birth.)

Also, I think our culture has an f***ed up idea of "good sleepers". In this culture, that means going into a deep sleep (a SIDS risk). There is a lot of evidence that human beings were meant to sleep twice a day - at night and after lunchtime. Also, some cultures wake up in the night to tell jokes or talk about their dreams, and then go back to sleep.

I always recommend that anyone who is wondering about the validity of AP **run** out and buy a copy of The Continuum Concept, which Dr. Sears's books are based on.

I don't strive to have what other people refer to as a "good" or even "easy" baby. My ds has life and spirit. Everywhere we go, people comment on how "alive," "happy," "different," or "precocious" he is. Really, I think my ds is just the way babies were meant to be. But it's just that everyone else's babies are so severely damaged, that my ds stands out as some kind of anomaly. Very, very sad, but true.

MisfitMama


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Oh Misfit Mama...thanks for directing me over to this thread!









I too needed to hear what all you wise mamas have to say. It's hard to talk about frustration/challenges with AP style parenting with people IRL because it seems like AP is always to blame and the solution is a non-AP method.









And to the OP...I feel your pain. We've had a very rough patch for the last couple of nights (awake from first night-waking/feeding around 2-3 a.m. until morning). OMG I am









Good luck mama.

~Erin


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## emmalala (Dec 3, 2001)

I just caught this thread &would like to say:

ds #1 slept really, really, really badly as an infant & our survival techniques - I later discovered - were attachment techniques! He slept on me, night-nursed, sling, etc. He is now 5 & has slept in his own bed since about 3, knocks off 11 hrs easily...

A lot of people expect a kid to sleep better than they do themselves - unrealistic.

Don't listen to the CIO crowd - they are just lazy & unwilling to take the time it really needs to look after a child. It's a quick solution that requires no thinking on the adult's part, but it is overused and nowhere near as effective as gradualism.

You will probably enjoy life more if you just tell everyone the baby is sleeping through the night, it's really none of their business. My sister told me that people ask that because they are really trying to ask "are you OK on the amount of sleep you get" because it is unrealistic to expect babies and small children to sleep soundly, they have to learn and forcing them is about like forcing potty-training IMO. Your child will get to long sleeps when he/she is ready and not before.

I am on my 3rd baby now and accept that there are rough patches. So far they have all ended, relatively quickly if we just accept that they are patches not forever. The babies have differed in their natural ability to sleep long stretches, but all have had wakey-times when they are hard to be with.

AFAIK there is nothing in AP that says a baby/small child cannot have regular sleep habits. If you do things at the same time every day, a rhythm can and does develop, naturally. It takes more than a few days, but comes gradually, as does the longer sleeping times.

Would say more but nak! Or maybe I said enough, it's one of my personal peeves. PM me if you want, I love this topic!


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

Thank you for this thread! One of the best things I did to deal with my dd's frequent waking is to quit looking at the clock. Seriously- if I don't keep track of how many times I've been awakened and for how long, then I feel a lot more well-rested. We have good nights and not as good nights, but it helps to hear from others on a regular basis that this too shall pass. Actually, at almost 18 months, I am starting to see some signs of her falling asleep on her own- or at least without my nipple in her mouth. There have been several nights lately where we've nursed, then walked for a few minutes in the sling, then laid down on the bed with me either humming to her or stroking her face and she fell asleep







Couldn't believe it each time. But, it reminds me that there will come a day when she does fall asleep without my assistance and that she will sleep through- or at least not necessarily need to nurse to get back to sleep during the night.

The funny thing is I know I'll miss this quiet, loving time with her even though I would love for her to sleep a little longer at night.


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## mommybritt (Nov 19, 2001)

Though I went through many sleepless, frustrating nights with dd#1, I am glad we did things the way we did







At 3 yrs old, she is a great sleeper







and, more importantly, knows that we are there for her, no matter the time of day.

Another AMAZING book if you need an AP boost is Our Babies, Ourselves by Meredith Small - fantastic book by an anthropologist that basically talks about why AP practices are expected by and necessary to babies -can't recommend it enough









Also, if this is your first child, it's easy to get caught up in feeling like what is happening right now will keep happening forever and you'll never get sleep, etc, etc. With dd's #2&3, the whole sleep thing has been a non-issue because I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that I will get there before I know it.


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## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

Well IMHO, I see most CIO babies as being quite detached from their parents & so many other things. It's sad but I almost feel like if they want to cry the don't because their thinking "Why should I bother---I won't get a response anyway.









I have had some up's & down's with my DD & her sleeping. 2 things that worked great for me were

1) not watching the clock (just as milkfacemamma suggested) This helped SO much.
2) Not comparing my DD's sleeping habits to anyone elses (I still have to remember this from time to time)

I must say now at 11mos she is a terrific sleeper (once she is asleep). Does she sleep through the night?--No but she sleeps for 4-5 hr stretches & I sleep great. O.K. now that I wrote this I'm going to have a terrible sleep tonight







:

Just think about how well attached your baby will be & how she'll always know her mamma's there for her.


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## semomama (Jun 27, 2004)

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I appreciate you understanding that I am committed to AP, but needed to hear your stories. I attend a playgroup, and there is only one other AP mama in it-- in fact the only one I know, period. It does become frustrating when I seem to be the only mama dealing with sleep issues. Part of it is my personality, I must admit. I am a very calculated individual who likes to see a problem and then discover a solution ( a bit of a control freak). I am slowly learning to just relax and go with her flow.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

A thought I have about this issue is that using CIO trains the parent to not be receptive to a child’s communication. Obviously CIO causes the child to feel less attached but a lesser talked about issue is the consequence of parental dis-attachment caused by training one’s self to not be moved by a child’s cries. I think that the deep tension caused by hearing your child cry is a wonderful bonding and protection tool and it should be relaxed gradually and naturally as the child moves towards a more stable attachment. I think CIO can be very damaging to the parent. I hope I’ve been clear.


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## laurabfig (Mar 1, 2004)

I just wanted to say: THANK YOU for this thread. There are probably a ton of other mamas out there like me who needed the encouragement too.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

I won't pretend to be an expert, but I'm now the parent of 3, and I think that sleep habit have more to do with the child's personality than CIO vs. AP.

My oldest child was sleeping 5 hour stretches when he was born. Sure, there were a few bumps in the road, but he's been a good sleeper for the most part. Goes to sleep easily, doesn't need to be parented to sleep, sleeps all night.I thought that I was a GREAT parent. AP rocks, etc. etc.

Then came my DD. At 2.5, she's still up a couple times per night (despite being night weaned). Can't sleep on her own. Naps badly. Fights sleep. And yet, I parented these two children very similarly.

Third child, it's too early to say... she does fight sleep BIG TIME and cries herself to sleep even while being held. She's just a really intense baby. But she sleeps well at night.

My point is, every kid is different. And although your parenting choices WILL affect your child's behavior, much of sleeping behavior is hard-wired.

Chin-up, you're doing great.


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

This is slightly OT, but mainstream studies are confirming that AP produces happier, more content people. Here's a link and excerpt from one study:

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jul2003/nichd-16.htm
"One of the important findings of this study is that the strongest predictor of how well a child behaves was a feature of maternal parenting that the researchers described as sensitivity - how attuned a mother is to a child's wants and needs. The behaviors of the sensitive mother are child centered; the sensitive mother is aware of the child's needs, moods, interests, and capabilities. She allows this awareness to guide her interactions with her child. Children of more sensitive mothers were more competent socially, less likely to engage in disruptive behavior, and less likely to be involved in conflicts with their caregivers and teachers."

CurlyTop


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## equinurse (Apr 30, 2004)

Hi,

My dd was born 2/06/03. My dh and I had gone out and prepared a nice nursery with crib and matching blankets, etc. We were very proud of her room. That said, she has never slept a night in her pretty room in her pretty crib. We have been cosleeping since the day she was born.

I had no idea there was even a word called cosleeping, much less AP- I found them on this website...I just could not imagine my dd sleeping so far away from us. I mean, she was this tiny helpless baby-imagine her waking up in the dark not knowing where she was and how scared she would be. That is what got my dh. I work with farm animals in a hospital, and everyone knows how close most animal mamas are to their babies when they sleep and how upset either one of them are when they are away from each other. This whole bf'ing, cosleeping experience has certainly given me even more compassion for the animal mamas.

My dd woke every hour to nurse for the first 4 months. I am small chested and I don't think that I was producing a ton. Then she went to every two hours. To me, this wasnt a problem, because I would hear her stir, turn over and nurse her and we would fall back asleep in minutes. She never woke up screaming or crying. She wakes up happy most of the time, smiling and trying to crawl over her "daddy mountain."

Now that she is 18 months, she sleeps from around 8pm and wakes around 4am to nurse, goes right back to sleep until I have to wake her up at 6:30 to go to dc since I work full time. She sleeps fine at dc on a cot for her naps, usually 2-2.5 hrs.

I wouldnt have it any other way. I love having my dd sleep with us. We have had some issues, usually trying to get to sleep, but still nothing that has made me question my decision...yet...I havent read anything about cosleeping- it is on my to do list







We are planning on getting pg soon, and I am concerned about having a baby and a toddler in the same bed...

I agree with the other posters about there being a link between childhood/baby issues and adult issues. We would be blind to think otherwise.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Margie


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## fyrflymommy (Jan 20, 2003)

i really don't have anything new to add. i think the problem is that people don't realize that it's the biological norm for a baby to awaken frequently. it's a survival instinct. and for a lot of people it's inconvenient to have to respond to their baby so often.

fyrfly


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *semomama*
I am a very calculated individual who likes to see a problem and then discover a solution ( a bit of a control freak). I am slowly learning to just relax and go with her flow.


Hi!

Are you my twin? I would have described my personality with those exact terms.

My ds has had his little bouts of sleep issues--teething, milestones, etc. but is in general a great sleeper. He does two 1.5 hour naps a day (moving to one now) and does 6-9 hour stretches at night with no CIO. We sometimes cosleep for teh second stretch of the night. He nurses to sleep for naps and often rocks and dances to sleep at night.

If you like charts and graphs like I do, you sould read NoCry Sleep Solution--I found the sleep cycle description really helpful and had a lot of fun with the charts. Even when I was sleep deprived, I still enjoyed the charts. (Yes, it's true.)

I hope you stick to your AP guns. A crying child is trying to communicate something. Please listen to it and respond--that's what parenting is all about.

Good luck!


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emmalala*

Don't listen to the CIO crowd - they are just lazy & unwilling to take the time it really needs to look after a child. It's a quick solution that requires no thinking on the adult's part, but it is overused and nowhere near as effective as gradualism.

exactly. I always say CIO is for lazy parents, not parents that truly want their kids to have healthy sleep habits and be happy in the long run. it's evident that it's much harder to be by your baby's side until he/she is ready to sleep on her own. it takes time, patience, love, understanding, caring. but then again, isn't this what parenting is all about? if we decide to have children, we have to put them first. I love your thread and I'm happy to see such positive posts.


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

I'd just like to add, I could go on and on about the importance of other aspects of AP - not just the "anti-CIO" part! I'm sure people would love to give you encouragement in those areas, too, if you need it.









MisfitMama


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## sovereignqueen (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MisfitMama*
. . . And as a former "great sleeper" as a baby, who learned that nobody would respond to me, so I "slept well," I can now say that as an adult I am the worst sleeper I know.

hmmmm....I was a "great sleeper" too in my own room as my mom constantly reminds me. I am still midly afraid of the dark and have all sorts of sleep anxieties...maybe there is a correlation...


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## emmalala (Dec 3, 2001)

I'm back, just to say that there is another aspect of AP which is less talked about in this thread. That is the care and feeding of MOM who also matters! I have seen a lot of posts talking about the child's needs, but parents also need to care for themselves. It is a fine balance, between your needs and the child's, and not something that anyone else can tell you how to handle. But it is important to care for yourself, because how can you care for another when you are a complete mess? It's especially important if you have several children because you are balancing their needs too. There are times when the best thing to do for your family is care for yourself. Get help from whoever, don't be shy of asking.

As an AP parent, you don't want to be modeling "doormat" type self sacrifice.

I made this post because I have been up 2 nights with dd and I am in shreds. I forgot how much it takes out of you! And I bet this is an incoherent post because of it!!


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emmalala*
I'm back, just to say that there is another aspect of AP which is less talked about in this thread. That is the care and feeding of MOM who also matters! I have seen a lot of posts talking about the child's needs, but parents also need to care for themselves. It is a fine balance, between your needs and the child's, and not something that anyone else can tell you how to handle. But it is important to care for yourself, because how can you care for another when you are a complete mess? It's especially important if you have several children because you are balancing their needs too. There are times when the best thing to do for your family is care for yourself. Get help from whoever, don't be shy of asking.

As an AP parent, you don't want to be modeling "doormat" type self sacrifice.

This makes an excellent point. I think that our inclination as an AP parent is to give, give, give. It's hard to establish that limit of "me" time, especially when it makes our children unhappy, even temporarily. We feel guilty, we feel like a bad parent. One of the things that I do to take care of myself is to get up before dd and work out. A lot of times she wakes up long before I'm through ( try as I do to get up early enough to do it all before she wakes up),so I bring her into the room where I'm working out and help her to find things to entertain herself, as well as talk with her. But, I continue my work out. She sometimes fusses and is unhappy with me when I explain that I'm working out and can't stop to do whatever right now. I dont' like making her unhappy, but I know I am a MUCH more patient mother if I am able to get that workout in. I think her temporary unhappiness is offset by the good of what it does for me mentally the rest of the day and by seeing me do something to take care of myself.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Well, here's why we APd and still do.

I had a moment -- I guess you can call it an epiphany -- where it became clear to me how strange and unnerving it must be to be a baby. Nine months in Wombworld, floating free in the red sea, never hungry, always eating; never thirsty, always drinking; only hearing sounds muffled through the gentle expanse of water and womb.

And then suddenly birth. Separation. Cold.

And for the first time, fear.

I understood in a rush what a baby would want: to go back to the womb, and if that wasn't possible, to have conditions stay womblike. Slings to hug and enfold, swaddling blankets so that dreadful feeling of space-freedom would be contained, gentle lights, lots of skin, and constant contact.

I thought about all the times in my life I've cried alone in a room. All the times I'd fallen asleep crying, and how I'd longed, even as an adult, for someone, someone, someone.

When we marry, isn't that one of the reasons? So we won't be alone? So in the middle of the night, you can roll over and feel someone else's warm, sleeping body?

To me, AP is the name I think of as parenting from my heart, my gut, my breasts: it's skin-parenting, milk-parenting, scent-parenting, instinctive and fiercely protective.

There's no way we can go back and heal some of the wounds of the past, but what we can do is do what we wish had been done to us. Funny how that helps heal things all on its own.

Hope this helped.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *equinurse*
I work with farm animals in a hospital, and everyone knows how close most animal mamas are to their babies when they sleep and how upset either one of them are when they are away from each other. This whole bf'ing, cosleeping experience has certainly given me even more compassion for the animal mamas.

I'd just like to add this:

Imagine how strange it would be if you had a dog who'd just had a litter of puppies and at night, instead of staying with them, she took each one by the scruff and put it in a room down the hall and then went to sleep in another room, ignoring the puppies when they cried.

Really, many people would give the puppies away and have the dog spayed based on that behavior alone.

My point here's pretty obvious.


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

CharlesB,

Thank you so much for your posts. I use that puppy analogy all the time, and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has thought of it! It's so true - people will say a dog is a good mama if she does all the things a "bad mama" human does. Also, I like to think of watching chimpanzees - if you saw a mother chimp leave her baby on some branch all by itself all night long, you'd know for *certain* that that baby would end up with neurotic. And **surprise** - that's what happens to human babies, too. It's so odd that these analogies are not more common in parenting circles.

And as for healing ourselves - I feel very strongly that I am so lucky for the way I have chosen to parent my ds. I feel every minute of every day that I am healing my own self, giving to him what I never got. I think this is why I so rarely feel "burnt out" and why so many people comment on my incredible resources of patience. It's all because I can so vividly imagine what it feels like to be him and *not* get what he needs. I seem to have an endless amount of compassion for him. Having a baby has been the most healing experience of my whole life. I feel sorry for people who don't know what I know about what babies need, because they are not going to have the opportunity to grow the way I've been able to. It's so empowering, it's overwhelming.

MisfitMama


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## KKmama (Dec 6, 2001)

My children have a routine, definitely not a schedule (and I pay close attention to their cues), and they are quite well-rested, as am I. I could never, ever let them CIO. I just can't do it. We should allow some variation in kids, too, y'know... some AP kids are good sleepers (like what Ann said).

And I think the idea that CIO babies are doing so well is not entirely true. I have memories from when I was small (probably around 3?) of when I was not sleeping so well and my parents were definitely not there to comfort me... not the greatest memories, IYKWIM. (Sovereignqueen, I identify with your post...)


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## marigold (Jul 9, 2004)

Thanks so much to everyone who has posted - I'm really getting a lot out of this thread. Going through a rough patch with my dd lately and am appreciative of everyone's stories and words of wisdom.

I just wanted to add that more and more I'm finding that this idea that CIO babies are better sleepers is just another myth.
My mom does not understand AP, thinks CIO is the only "sensible" way to go (ugh!). But she finally admitted that while she did put her babies (she had five) on a schedule and let them CIO, "Actually, they never really got on a schedule, or least, never stayed on one for very long." My sister, who lets her dd CIO, admits that every time there is a change in schedule, or her dd gets sick, vaccinations, vacation etc. she has to start the CIO training all over again. And at 17 mos her dd continues to wake up at night to nurse at least every 4 hours. So, CIO and scheduling may make some babies sleep long and hard, but not all.


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## sovereignqueen (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marigold*
.
My mom does not understand AP, thinks CIO is the only "sensible" way to go (ugh!). But she finally admitted that while she did put her babies (she had five) on a schedule and let them CIO, So, CIO and scheduling may make some babies sleep long and hard, but not all.

My mom is the same way. However, she insists that I loved my strict schedule (10 min on each breast every three house, bath at 10 am, walk at 2 pm -- that kind of routine). Like the whole "you slept through the night at 6 weeks" thing I think it's been rose colored thought time.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

CB: I, too, have used the puppy analogy many times.









ICM: excellent points about the effects on Mum.

One of the things I hate about the CIO philosophy is that it basically blames the mother for her child's sleep issues. In other words, our instinct to pick up and comfort a crying babe is dismissed as hormonal hysteria, with no purpose save to prevent your poor child from acheiving the independent sleep he apparently MUST have to be any sort of functioning individual. I've heard CIO stories where the mums cried, vomited, had to leave the house, use earplugs...none of these women saw that reaction as a Good Thing, as something to be in awe of (millions of years of maternal instinct at work!). They saw it as a "weakness". Not realizing that, by dulling their own reactions to baby, they were doing CIO on themselves, making them less responsive hormonally and instinctively to their babes.

To me, it's almost a feminist issue. CIO paints our instincts out to be "female overprotective hysteria" that is bad for our children. Women deserve to be HONOURED for their instincts. And to feel them at work, I have to say, has been an experience that has truly moved me, spiritually. It saddens me that so many women have that driven out of them by the CIO attitude.


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*

To me, it's almost a feminist issue.

Piglet, why do you say it's *ALMOST* a feminist issue? Seems pretty clear cut to me!

MisfitMama


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piglet68*
They saw it as a "weakness". Not realizing that, by dulling their own reactions to baby, they were doing CIO on themselves, making them less responsive hormonally and instinctively to their babes.

To me, it's almost a feminist issue. CIO paints our instincts out to be "female overprotective hysteria" that is bad for our children. Women deserve to be HONOURED for their instincts. And to feel them at work, I have to say, has been an experience that has truly moved me, spiritually. It saddens me that so many women have that driven out of them by the CIO attitude.









Yea, that's what I was trying to say.


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## emblmrgrl (Jul 21, 2004)

I too think so much depends on the child's personality. My oldest daughter and one of my boys (twins) have always slept for extended periods, but the other son is just awake more. He goes to sleep very easily but no matter how much activity he gets, how much later he goes to bed, etc, he's up at least once during the night for about an hour and that's just him...

And semomama, I just wanted to say hello! We live in TN but my DH is from SEMO! Bollinger County to be exact.


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## HoneymoonBaby (Mar 31, 2004)

Quote:

But it's just that everyone else's babies are so severely damaged, that my ds stands out as some kind of anomaly.
That's ridiculous and completely offensive. Be careful not to fall off that high horse, you might get hurt.


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## ggma (Apr 20, 2004)

Just wanted to say that I have been through it with my 10 mo. ds. From the get go he was a challenging sleeper... We slept in a lazy-boy, ds on my chest, for the first, oh, 7-8 months. Slowly worked into naps away from mama and ever so slowly moved into the family bed at night. And now, he pretty much sleeps through the night right next to me. He wakes now and then and reaches out with his precious feet to see if I'm there and then settles back down to sleep. And there are still nights, like last night, where something is diff. and we need to get up and cuddle in the chair for a couple hours before we can get back to bed. It has been very hard at times. And yet, he is such a happy good-natured open baby during the day... I don't know about all the connections and studies etc. All I know is that it feels right for me to give him as much as I can - and that he responds to it positively. If you have any questions I'd be happy to chat more with you. Believe me, I've tried oh so many things... Sweetest of Dreams to You and Yours, ggma.


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## MisfitMama (Sep 4, 2003)

Honeymoon Baby,

I guess I didn't mean that exactly the way I said it. I meant, for *his* temperament, that is the way babies were meant to be. I am very sorry - I guess that didn't sound very good.

However, I *do* think that most children *are* severely damaged - it's just that "normal" to us in Western culture = a severely damaged person, so they look "fine".

Nobody would ever guess that *I* am a severely damaged person - but I am. I seem pretty "normal", though. But I would never want my ds to go through the emotional turmoil that I have gone through in my life. I'm just doing whatever I have the power to do to try to make sure that ds has a solid foundation.

MisfitMama


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## semomama (Jun 27, 2004)

hey emblmrgrl, we are in cape girardeau.


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## emblmrgrl (Jul 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *semomama*
hey emblmrgrl, we are in cape girardeau.

Very Cool... My MIL works in Cape!


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## wysmom (Jul 7, 2004)

This is a good thread. My friends and family think we're crazy b/c we have an open bed policy. My son can come in whenever he likes. He's three and half and usually ends up in our bed at some point in the night. I don't sleep well with a big kid in the bed so he sleeps with my husband and I go into his bed. everybody gets a good night sleep so I don't see any problem with the arrangement.

I have a friend who is absolutely fretting that her kids are not sleeping through the night and only sleep when mom or dad are with them. I suggest she go with the flow and sleep with the kids and I think she thought this was a completely unsatisfactory resolution. Why are people so rigid? Why not just adjust to whatever brings about the best night sleep and the most happiness in the house? IT seems people think the only way to sleep in some traditional everyone in their own bed kind of scenario. I'm ranting. It's late. Must sleep.


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## grdawson (Aug 12, 2004)

I am a new member,but came across this topic and it is like a breath of fresh air to hear people going through the same thing I am now. ds is 13 months old. has always been a great sleeper but for the past month has been waking up and not going back to sleep on his own. sleeps in his own crib but when he won't go back to sleep i put him in the bed with me and dh is in another bed. it seems to be getter harder and harder. he kicks me, pulls my hair and flops around. neither one of us seems to be sleeping good. what is going on? my pediatrician says after 12 months to toddlerhood they don't sleep as deeply and wake more often during the night? whats that about?
I want him to be able to go back to sleep without me but really don't want to do CIO method. I feel like I am in a foreign country with everyone (dr., mother, husband, etc.) telling me to just let him CIO. I was almost in tears today with my mother telling me ds was becoming a clingy, whiny little boy because he is so attached to me. (sleep issues aside.) I am really in need of some support and finding this MDC is so refreshing. any advice would be appreciated on sleep issues, AP in general, and reassurance that my AP tendancies will not result in a clingy, whiny, mama's - boy.


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

My son is almost 4, cosleeps most of the night, coslept exclusively the first 2 years, and he is not clingy, whiny, or dependent. I have to remind him to say goodbye to me when I take him to preschool. He likes me to feed him yogurt because he doesn't like mess, but that's about it unless he's sick.

Kids are who they are. Most kids CIO, and there are a lot of whiny clingy kids out there in the general public. I know kids who are AP'd who might be described as clingy and whiny, and kids who were AP'd who are not.

AP is about helping them trust their parents, then themselves, then the world, bit by bit. It is not about making them dependent.

And he's thirteen months. Tell your mom to give it a rest. Sheesh.

My daughter has severe eczema and does not sleep well if she's itchy. Should I let her CIO because I'm not getting my 8 hours, or should I be there to pat her head and hold her until she falls asleep again?

L.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

I think the best AP advice I heard is that a need that is met will go away. Every baby has the same needs -- love, food, security. By meeting those needs we help our children greet the world as happy, healthy people.

Ginger - my dd is almost 13 months and each developmental milestone brings sleep disruptions. The upside of that is that she is napping longer (gives me some MDC time







) Of course she is napping in the sling with her head on my shoulder.


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