# AIDS from a used breast pump??



## PixieAlly (Aug 17, 2007)

Ok, at my first LLL meeting last night I was warned not to get a used pump because I or my child could get AIDS from it. I really think this is just some crazy notion but maybe I'm wrong so does anyone know of anyone *actual* cases of someone getting AIDS (or Hepatitis or something equally as horrible) from a used breast pump or is this just speculation that is possibly funded/started by breast pump corporations....

Ally


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## LoveMyTwoBoys (Dec 14, 2007)

I would think that as long as it is free of bodiliy fluids then you and child should both be ok. Sounds to me like you are right when you said that it could just be a ploy from pump companies. Of course they don't want you buying a used pump. That isn't any more money in their pockets.


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## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

Its just not possible. AIDS virus cannot infect anyone after being exposed to air. You *might* be able to get thrush though.


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## April411 (Dec 19, 2007)

Quote:

Its just not possible. AIDS virus cannot infect anyone after being exposed to air. You *might* be able to get thrush though.








:....I'm pretty sure that the AIDS virus dies as soon as it is exposed to air


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PixieAlly* 
... I really think this is just some crazy notion but maybe I'm wrong so does anyone know of anyone *actual* cases of someone getting AIDS (or Hepatitis or something equally as horrible) from a used breast pump or is this just speculation that is possibly funded/started by breast pump corporations....

PixieAlly,
I think the risks of a compromised supply (from a tired motor) and a Yeast / Thrush infection are far greater, and those are serious enough. I think Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B are possible, if unlikely. HIV / AIDS is less likely but theoretically possible.

Here is a Lactivism thread that discusses the issue in detail. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=804048

Several posts discuss a woman who bought a pump on Ebay and caught something unspecified. They tested the pump and found it did contain the virus or pathogen she has. We can't know whether she got it from the pump or whether the pump got it from her but this does seem to establish that pathogens can survive in pumps for indefinite periods of time.

As far as I'm concerned however slight the risks are, it's not worth saving $100.00 or so. Sometimes the severity of the potential consequences outweighs the unlikelihood.

~Cath


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## PixieAlly (Aug 17, 2007)

I agree but at the same time we can all avoid dying in a plane crash by just not flying anymore and avoid getting hit by lightning by staying indoors during storms...but we don't do that because the risk of dying from either is so low. However, it seems like it would be much more likely to die from those two circumstances then from getting anything from a breast pump. Why is it we take some risks and not others, especially when one hasn't even been proven to be an actual risk? The woman with the unspecified whatever...why is it unspecifed? Why is she the only one I've been able to find who even suggests she caught something?

Ally


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

i would think buying new hose and the cup things would prevent you from catching anything from a previous user. and would still be cheaper then shelling out $200-$300 for a brand new pump.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PixieAlly* 
... The woman with the unspecified whatever...why is it unspecifed? Why is she the only one I've been able to find who even suggests she caught something? ...

Ally,
It's unspecified by the Ebay petitioner probably in a misguided effort to protect the pump purchaser in the unlikely event anyone figures out who she is; but more importantly, because it doesn't matter. Whatever it is it's bad enough that she can't nurse DC any more. Based on the research I've done my best guess would be Hepatitis B.

I think this probably happens more often than word of mouth would suggest due to incubation periods between 10 and 20 years on the scary stuff and numerous alternate causes on the less scary stuff like yeast/Thrush.

As far as why someone would fly on a plane but not buy a used pump, it may be the difference between the decision-maker dying a quick death themselves versus them and / or their child dying a slow painful death at some indeterminate point in the future because they were trying to save a couple of bucks.

I think the better question is why will the average person find the money for air fare to Disney, cable TV, cell phones, flat screen TVs, etc. but they'll think twice about buying the best pump they can afford if they were to take a hard enough look at their budget.

Clearly this comment is not directed at those who would have to choose between necessities and a good pump. But it should be noted that for those whom a good electric pump is a necessity, they should budget accordingly. For those whom a pump is not a necessity, perhaps they should get a manual one (which can be completely sterilized) or not get one at all.

~Cath


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm with the above poster. Not a risk I would take.


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## Elowyn (Nov 3, 2003)

What incubates for 10-20 years? The bloodborne pathogens (Hep B, C, HIV) all sero-convert within 6-12 months, max. Usually less. Not saying that that's a reason to use a used pump (although I'm quite happy with my gently used PIS, as it's my feeling that sterilization of removable parts is quite sufficient for me) but let's get the facts correct and not engage in fear-mongering.

You're more likely to catch something deadly from oxygen tubing in a hospital than from a properly cleaned used pump. JMHO.

ETA: Or a public toilet seat. Shudder.


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## miche28 (Sep 16, 2006)

This topic drives me nuts. Yes, LLL and many of the experts out there will tell you that you cannot reuse a pump. I don't know what else you would expect them to suggest when the very manufacturers of those pumps say they are for single use only. Although interestingly, the manufacturers and LLL say it's ok for a mom to reuse her own pump, even though the risk of mold or wear-out is actually possible and would be just as high with your own pump as someone else's.

Realistically, the risk of transmitting a virus or bacteria from a properly cleaned pump (that generally hasn't been used in months) hardly seems sufficient to me to suggest a mother risk her supply/health/baby's health by foregoing a pump she needs or buying a lower-grade than is warranted.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Elowyn* 
What incubates for 10-20 years? The bloodborne pathogens (Hep B, C, HIV) all sero-convert within 6-12 months, max. Usually less. ... let's get the facts correct and not engage in fear-mongering. ...

Elowyn,
By all means, let's get our facts straight. Milk banks screen for: HIV 1&2, Hepatitis B&C, Syphillis, and HTLV 1&2. Please see links with excerpts below for info on asymptomatic infection for some of these.

Keep in mind that just because it is detectable in the blood it doesn't mean the infected person is experiencing symptoms and will therefore actually have a blood test. This is particularly true of Hep C.

University of Maryland Medical Center
http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/000682.html

*Asymptomatic HIV infection* ... is highly variable among individuals and correlates with the level of replication of HIV in each individual, as well as genetic differences in the way the immune system handles the virus. *In some individuals, the asymptomatic phase can last 10 years or longer, while in others, clinical symptoms and worsening immune function may occur within a few years from the time of original infection.*

Harvard School of Public Health
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pre...s07082003.html
*Hepatitis C virus (HCV) is a largely asymptomatic disease that after a long latency period, usually spanning decades, can damage the liver and eventually cause cirrhosis and liver cancer.*

Medicinenet - What are the symptoms of hepatitis C infection?http://www.medicinenet.com/hepatitis_c/page4.html
At the beginning of an hepatitis C virus infection, only about 25% of patients exhibit the characteristic symptoms of acute (rapid onset) hepatitis. These symptoms include fatigue, muscular aches, poor appetite, and low-grade fever. Rarely, yellowing of the skin and/or eyes (jaundice) also occurs. However, most patients (about 75%) experience minimal or no symptoms at the onset of hepatitis C virus.
*As the hepatitis becomes chronic, most individuals remain asymptomatic (without symptoms). Indeed, many persons with chronic hepatitis C are diagnosed while undergoing routine blood work for unrelated purposes. Infected individuals may exhibit no symptoms despite progressive liver inflammation, necrosis (death of liver cells), and fibrosis (scarring). ...*

Retroviruses other than HIV
http://www.link.med.ed.ac.uk/RIDU/Htlv.htm
The transmission routes are similar to HIV but HTLV-I is less infectious since HTLV-I cannot be transmitted by cell free body fluids. The incubation period is shorter in blood transfusion cases or in the immunosuppressed.
*Adult T cell leukaemia This has an incubation period of 20-30 years.*

~Cath


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## PixieAlly (Aug 17, 2007)

I guess my main point here is there are NO documented cases of any of these diseases being transmitted by a breast pump and the one lady who claims she probably got some unspecified disease from an Ebay breast pump does not count at documented.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

I think we all have to evaluate risk and determine what risks we feel alright taking. You have to consider the probability of occurrence, and the actual consequence and figure out what you feel is okay for you.

That said, if you need a breast pump and don't have a lot of money, here's what I'd suggest you look at:
1. If you have health insurance, under what circumstances your insurance will pay for a pump or part of one. My breast pump was provided by my health insurance because a hospital lactation consultant diagnosed DS with minor jaundice (very minor - his bilirubin levels were never even checked) and wrote a prescription for it. I have seen lists suggesting that, in my state, some health insurance companies will pay for a pump just because the mother needs to work. So call them up and ask.
2. Go to some LLL meetings and see if anyone has experience with low or no cost pumps, from where, what they had to do.
3. If you qualify for state aid of any kind, ask if they will pay for or provide a pump.

You may have some choices here that get you a pump WITHOUT risk (either documented or undocumented) of viral exposure.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PixieAlly* 
I guess my main point here is there are NO documented cases of any of these diseases being transmitted by a breast pump and the one lady who claims she probably got some unspecified disease from an Ebay breast pump does not count at documented.

Pixie,
How many documented cases are there of Autism caused by Thimerasol / Mercury in vaccinations? To my knowledge, there are none; and yet most of us would agree that it isn't worth the risk. In fact, there is a certain amount of anger directed at "Big Pharm" and the government for downplaying the risk.
~Cath


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## RootSnort (Nov 22, 2006)

It COULD happen. I would not risk it. The other more probable risk is that these single user pumps are NOT meant to last. They are meant to provide part-time pumping for ONE baby, not even one Mom with multiple babies. So you could lose suction and lose milk production if you reply on one.

I would recommend EITHER renting a hospital grade pump if you're going to be using it a lot (my favorite is Ameda elite, which can go for about $40 a month) or buy an Avent Isis manual pump, and one of those you could get used and just replace the valves.


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## Turkish Kate (Sep 2, 2006)

Just as an FYI--"asympotmatic" and "incubation period" are two entirely different things. Asymptomatic means that the infected individual is not showing specific signs of active infection. The incubation period of a disease is the time period where the organism is multiplying, under the radar and generally undetected by laboratory tests. Latency is when a disease is dormant, not generally multiplying or causing signs of active infection, but is still present in the body and measurable by lab tests.

While it is possible to remain asymptomic for many years with some bloodborne pathogens, they are not in the "incubation period" or "dormant." Leukemia is not a bloodborne pathogen, it is not transmissable from person-to-person, and as such does not have an "incubation period."


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathMac* 
I think the better question is why will the average person find the money for air fare to Disney, cable TV, cell phones, flat screen TVs, etc. but they'll think twice about buying the best pump they can afford if they were to take a hard enough look at their budget.


I never thought if it that way before. Good point.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
... Leukemia is not a bloodborne pathogen, it is not transmissable from person-to-person, and as such does not have an "incubation period."

Turkish Kate,
The Cancer/Leukemia itself may not be contagious per se but wouldn't the viruses or bacteria that cause them, including HTLV-I be contagious?

MedicineNet.com
http://www.medicinenet.com/cancer_causes/article.htm

Cancer Risk Factors Risk factors
Doctors often cannot explain why one person develops cancer and another does not. But research shows that certain risk factors increase the chance that a person will develop cancer. *These are the most common risk factors for cancer:*
•Growing older
•Tobacco
•Sunlight
•Ionizing radiation
•Certain chemicals and other substances
•*Some viruses and bacteria*
•Certain hormones
•Family history of cancer
•Alcohol
•Poor diet, lack of physical activity, or being overweight
•
Many of these risk factors can be avoided. Others, such as family history, cannot be avoided. People can help protect themselves by staying away from known risk factors whenever possible.
If you think you may be at risk for cancer, you should discuss this concern with your doctor. You may want to ask about reducing your risk and about a schedule for checkups.
Over time, several factors may act together to cause normal cells to become cancerous. When thinking about your risk of getting cancer, these are some things to keep in mind:
•Not everything causes cancer.
•Cancer is not caused by an injury, such as a bump or bruise.
•*Cancer is not contagious. Although being infected with certain viruses or bacteria may increase the risk of some types of cancer, no one can "catch" cancer from another person.*
•Having one or more risk factors does not mean that you will get cancer. Most people who have risk factors never develop cancer.
•Some people are more sensitive than others to the known risk factors.

~Cath


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## Turkish Kate (Sep 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathMac* 
Turkish Kate,
The Cancer/Leukemia itself may not be contagious per se but wouldn't the viruses or bacteria that cause them, including HTLV-I be contagious?

I think you're really reaching with that. The incidence of HTLV1 is not that common (generally among those who are already immunuocompromised), and even so, less than 1% of HTLV1 positive patients develop ATLL. The same basic precautions that protect against the spread of other bloodborne pathogens apply for HTLV as well. Not all viruses/bacteria cause cancer and not all potentially cancer-causing viruses/bacteria will behave the same way in all circumstances. There has never been any evidence that merely being infected with a particular virus/bacteria itself causes the cancer, rather a cumulation of several events is likely.

Honestly, I think that the potential danger of infection via an "infected" breast pump is far fetched, if sensible precautions are taken. A mild, 10% bleach solution will kill almost every bacteria and virus that's been brought up in this thread. For those who are worried about encapsulated bacteria, hit up your favorite nurse or hospital worker for a drop or two of TBQ or some other tuberculocidal disinfectant.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
I think you're really reaching with that. The incidence of HTLV1 is not that common
...
Honestly, I think that the potential danger of infection via an "infected" breast pump is far fetched, if sensible precautions are taken. A mild, 10% bleach solution will kill almost every bacteria and virus that's been brought up in this thread. For those who are worried about encapsulated bacteria, hit up your favorite nurse or hospital worker for a drop or two of TBQ or some other tuberculocidal disinfectant.

Turkish Kate,
If you skim this thread and the more comprehensive thread linked in an earlier posting you will note that HTLV-1 is one small part of the picture: Low supply due to a dying motor, Yeast/Thrush, HIV/AIDS, and Hepatitis (Hep B in particular), are all potential concerns ... some more likely than others.

As far as your suggestions on how to sterilize the pump, would this actually sterilize the motor? It seems pretty widely accepted that the motors of single user pumps cannot be sterilized. That is what makes them single user pumps.
~Cath


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## Turkish Kate (Sep 2, 2006)

I absolutely agree with you that other issues are more pressing, particularly the "life span" of a breast pump. I have read this thread and I merely stepped in to clear up the misinformation concerning the medical teminology that was being misused as well as some of the incorrect information concerning disease transmission.

I will freely admit that I'm not all that familiar with how pumps other than my own work (Ameda Lacatline Personal Electric), but based on how my pump operates, I can't see how breastmilk would get into the motor to begin with, harboring a virus that could survive long enough to infect a new user later on. If breastmilk is getting into the motor at all, it would quickly be rendered useless, making this whole point moot.


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## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

I was wondering this myself. Just what are these people doing with the pump that would even make this an issue. And who would buy and use one without putting all the collectoin parts through the dish washer making this a moot point. I usually try to refrain from spraying my milk on electrical equipment but... different strokes for different folks.

I don't mean to be insensitive but, if the lady caught an undisclosed disease from a used pump because she didn't boil or sterilize them in the dishwasher first well I'm amazed she has managed to stay disease free this long. Also probably why she is the only one who we have ever heard of running into this problem. Also as a side note, if i bought a pump that looked like it had been used so much that the motor might be worn down I would A.) not use it B.) return it. I can't imagine that I am the only one who would have the sense to no buy or use a pump that looks like its had 2 years of constant use, which if it has had hard use for 2 years it will look like it as they get dragged everywhere.


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## Mbella (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beckula* 
I don't mean to be insensitive but, if the lady caught an undisclosed disease from a used pump because she didn't boil or sterilize them in the dishwasher first well I'm amazed she has managed to stay disease free this long. Also probably why she is the only one who we have ever heard of running into this problem.

I think the contaminated parts from the lady's pump were the inner parts that cannot be removed and sterilized.

I wouldn't take the risk of using a used pump.


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## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mbella* 
I think the contaminated parts from the lady's pump were the inner parts that cannot be removed and sterilized.

I wouldn't take the risk of using a used pump.

How on earth could she have gotten any disease from the internal parts of a pump. Unless she was rubbing her self down with the motor i just can't understand this. I think she probably forgot to boil the collection parts and ended up with thrush. Unfortunatly we do not know for sure. Do what feels best for you and if that means not buying a used pump then fine. If someone can tell me a good logical reason why the internal parts of the pump that should not be in contact with skin or breastmilk would cause a real disease threat then let me know.


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## kaylee18 (Dec 25, 2005)

(1) The fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Airborne, microscopic particles may migrate down the entire length of the tubing, adhere to the inner diaphragm of the pump, then flake slowly off like invisible dandruff and work their way back up to you over time, due to the air movement inside the pump. That's the theory, anyway.

(2) There are multi-user pumps in many price ranges that are certified not to pose this risk. These include the Whisper Wear and the Bailey Nurture III, both of which cost less than a PISA, and can be bought used without the theoretical disease risk.


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## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

OK, OK I did some research to try and back my point of view. i maintain that it would be impossible to contract AIDS in any way from a used breast pump but... It is possible to pass nasty bugs due to the way a single use private pump is constructed. Microscopic particles of milk can in fact make their way into the internal diaphram and back out into the collection parts. I was under the mistaken idea that these pumps were like the hospital rental pumps. That being said what i read basically made it clear that an open system pump, which is what most if not all single use pumps are, is not actually safe for anyone even if you are the only one ever using it and only for one baby. Seriously, if you had thrush you should throw the pump away because you could just keep giving it back to yourself continuously. Gross. Maybe we should demand better made pumps. Thank you for the pump recommendations that make this topic moot, we should be buying a pump that doesn't pose a disease risk to even ourselves.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kaylee18* 
(1) The fact that you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Airborne, microscopic particles may migrate down the entire length of the tubing, adhere to the inner diaphragm of the pump, then flake slowly off like invisible dandruff and work their way back up to you over time, due to the air movement inside the pump. That's the theory, anyway.

(2) There are multi-user pumps in many price ranges that are certified not to pose this risk. These include the Whisper Wear and the Bailey Nurture III, both of which cost less than a PISA, and can be bought used without the theoretical disease risk.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I have a medela PIS, but used the ameda hygien kit I got from the WIC pump I borrowed at first..... As you can see there is a cup like thing that sits down in the part that the tube goes to. It makes it impossible for milk to back up into the pump tubing.

http://www.ameda.com/breastpumping/a.../assembly.aspx


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
I have a medela PIS, but used the ameda hygien kit I got from the WIC pump I borrowed at first..... As you can see there is a cup like thing that sits down in the part that the tube goes to. It makes it impossible for milk to back up into the pump tubing.

http://www.ameda.com/breastpumping/a.../assembly.aspx

I did this myself. However, having spilled milk into the motor of my first PIS I know that this is no guarantee against getting motor in the pump. If a subsequent user were to also use a hygeni-kit that would decrease the risk but there would still be an exposure through her handling the ends of the tubing.

One other thing, when posting this as a suggestion in another thread on this topic, an LC responded with the reminder that the various collection kits are not meant to be interchangeable. Her experience was with hospital grade pumps in particular. She advises that changing the collection kit can affect suction and could cause damage to the nipples.

My experience with using the Ameda Hygenikit with the Medela PIS/A suggests otherwise, given my output I would have suspected decreased suction which wouldn't seem likely to cause damage. It does make me wonder if using the Medela kit on an Ameda might have the reverse affect and cause some damage.

The Medela PIS/A with the Ameda Hygenikit seemed like a nice combination to me. It gave me the Medela features I wanted with the convenient clean up of the Hygenikit.
~Cath


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
...
I can't see how breastmilk would get into the motor to begin with, harboring a virus that could survive long enough to infect a new user later on. If breastmilk is getting into the motor at all, it would quickly be rendered useless, making this whole point moot.

Turkish Kate,
With all due respect, you are wrong. I would explain why but I would merely be repeating myself. If you aren't impressed with the info I have provided in my earlier posts in this thread I would refer you to the other thread that someone else linked.

I freely admit that the scariest risks are remote and probably unquantifiable, which some people automatically equate with non-existent. We are all free to judge the risks for ourselves but in so doing we would do well to remember that we are taking those risks for our child as well.

It does bear repeating that the less horrific risks such as Yeast/Thrush and low supply due to an older motor are more likely and are by themselves reason enough for avoiding used pumps.

If you don't believe me check out the Battling Thrush and Low Supply threads on the BF'ing Challenges board. Thrush is extremely stubborn and some LCs will advise moms to replace their pump if a case of Thrush persists. Why anyone would risk catching it from a used pump is beyond me especially since the trauma and pain can jeopardize the BF'ing relationship. Likewise, for Exclusively Pumping and Working & Pumping moms an inadequate pump can jeopardize a moms ability to keep up and can therefore undermine the BF'ing relationship.

Affordable pumps is a noble lactivist notion but safe and effective ones is a much more pragmatic one.
~Cath


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beckula* 
OK, OK I did some research to try and back my point of view. i maintain that it would be impossible to contract AIDS in any way from a used breast pump but ... It is possible to pass nasty bugs due to the way a single use private pump is constructed. Microscopic particles of milk can in fact make their way into the internal diaphram and back out into the collection parts.
...
Seriously, if you had thrush you should throw the pump away because you could just keep giving it back to yourself continuously. Gross. Maybe we should demand better made pumps. Thank you for the pump recommendations that make this topic moot, we should be buying a pump that doesn't pose a disease risk to even ourselves.

Beckula,
I really respect anyone that takes the time to do the research. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only one.

I agree that the risk of HIV/AIDS is more in the realm of the hypothetical but still theoretically possible. I'm a little surprised that more people aren't concerned given how adaptable it is; the virus may seem too fragile to survive in less than optimum conditions for very long but it may not be long until a sturdier strain evolves.

As far as thrush goes, as I just mentioned in another post, some LCs recommend getting rid of a pump if a case of Thrush persists.

I battled Thrush on and off with DD1 and DD2. It's likely the pump was one source of reinfection. I was able to keep the Thrush under control and the symptoms bearable with GSE; otherwise I may have considered replacing the pump.
~Cath


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

There is a pump motor that can be used by more than one person, made by Bailey Medical. If I were to buy a nice pump used I would go for that one, otherwise I would buy new or use a hospital grade pump (which is what I did for three months). I too, don't think it is worth the risk and although I believe it would be very rare to contract a disease from a pump, that is a risk I wouldn't want to take. I suppose if I actually knew the person, ie close friend, etc. I might take a used one, but definitely would not buy one from ebay. Besides, some of those prices are kind of high for a used pump, and how do you really know that they only used it it a few times like most claim?


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

I agree that for EPing and Working Moms, a new pump has many less risks. But for someone like me, who pumps once every few weeks to go out shopping on a Saturday... a used hand pump was the way to go. (I would like to point out too that my hand pump is ALL able to be boiled.)


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