# Fire dept giving out bad carseat advice?



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

CSPTs, give me your advice!

Ok I have a friend who has an 18 mo baby who is, if I remember correctly, about 30" and 25 lbs or so. Now, I believe she had her son in a bucket, and when he outgrew it, she went to the fire dept. Now I think that's great that she went, but, they gave her a Cosco HB booster for her son! Yes, legally it's...legal, but safety wise, you all know this isn't the best idea.
Of course I did tell her that wasn't the best idea. and that I didn't know why they would recommend that. It's totally not her fault.

Now what I want to know is, why a Cosco HB instead of, say, a Scenera? Her baby can't be That big. Yes her car is small (a 2 dr Toyota paseo), but I think them recommending FFing an 18 mo baby is horrendous. What can be done in this case? Not in her case, I mean, she can't afford another car seat, and I would love to buy one for her but...not happening. But what can be done in the case of the fire dept, presumably with CSPTs (or so they say) recommending this?


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## Sharon RN (Sep 6, 2006)

What a good question... I went to the fire dept to have my infant's carseat installed, while I was still pregnant. I could move it up and down SO MUCH I had my husband re-install it. It was then I realized that my seat back was reclined (I have a 2008 CR-V, and the back seats can recline). After we fixed the back seat and re-installed the car seat, it's much better now.

What can be done about the fire dept either giving back advice or doing poor installs?


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

The trouble is that SOME fire departments have CPSTs/CRSTs on staff, and they give out great advice. Others do not, or have techs with out of date training, but give out car seat advice anyway. Parents can't know or tell the difference, and think that they are getting the best advice.

As for what to do, if this is your area, I would call the fire department and ask what kind training the people giving out car seats advice have. If they have none, I'd ask them why they are giving out car seat advice! And perhaps put them in contact with Safe Kids, who should be able to put them in touch with a CPST or some training!(Shuddering, imagining an 18 month old in a booster. My niece was put in a booster at 2 years old, and I totalled my parents van because I'd turned my head to tell her to sit back down.)

I would at least try and convince your friend that she wants her child harnessed. I'd push for RF'ing, but if that's a lost cause, at least try to sell her on the benefits of a harness. Namely, that the child can't 'escape'.


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## hillymum (May 15, 2003)

Was it a booster with a 5 point harnes? If so why is that such a bad thing? I'm sorry but I disagree about children needing to be rear facing after they are a year old as long as they are the right weight or more.


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

Have you seen the seat? Is it possible it is a harnessed booster? A lot of parents refer to these as "boosters" even though they have a built in harness. He absolutely would be safer RFing, but I can see an 18 mo. old getting a FFing/booster seat.

Assuming it really was a BOOSTER, I would contact your local Safe Kids chapter and/or your state child passenger safety coordinator (often located within the Dept. of Community Health), or the fire chief at the station. Also, I would try to get your friend back into a Safe Kids or real CPST event. Good luck!


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
Was it a booster with a 5 point harnes? If so why is that such a bad thing? I'm sorry but I disagree about children needing to be rear facing after they are a year old as long as they are the right weight or more.

Uh, you would be dead wrong. That doesn't make any sense at all. You can't 'disagree' with that any more than you can 'disagree' with gravity making things fall down when you drop them. 1 year olds need to be rear facing. There is no argument or 'disagreeing' about it. There is only one right answer here.

Furthermore, the Cosco High-Back Booster, despite the name, is a combination seat with a harness. It has a 34" minimum for use on it which means that most 18 month olds are not tall enough yet.

That being said, many coalitions are seriously underbudgeted, meaning they save their convertibles (which are a little more expensive that a cheap seat like the Cosco HBB) for babies who absolutely must have them. Combine that with a minimally-educated (or outright bad) CPST, you get babies in forward facing seats.


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

The last time I took my van to have my installation checked out my DS was 2 1/2 and the cpst told me he can be turned around now and I told him I like the benifits of extended rearfacing and why and he told me its not that big of a deal once they are 20 lbs and 1yo. I tought him a thing or two about it lol. Im suprised they arnt all on the same page so to speak.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Unfortunately there are REALLY bad CPSTs out there, often times cops or firefighters who are doing it because they were ordered too, or they're getting a stipend to do it.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
Was it a booster with a 5 point harnes? If so why is that such a bad thing? I'm sorry but I disagree about children needing to be rear facing after they are a year old as long as they are the right weight or more.

Why do you disagree? Children under 4 have heavy heads which are proportionally huge compared to their bodies, underdeveloped neck muscles, and soft neck bones, which means the bones can stretch 4x as much as the spinal nerves. In even a minor accident, the heavy head will pull the spinal column forward. The column resembles a telephone cord (the curly kind) wrapped around a piece of cooked spaghetti. When the cord pulls forward, the spaghetti snaps.

It is LEGAL to turn a one year old 20lb child FF. That doesn't make it SAFE.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

When I did my CPST training a few years ago, it was with a group of firefighters and EMTs. I was the only one who was there because I wanted to be (most of the others were moaning and grumbling through the week), and I was the only one who really seemed to know what I was doing at the end of the training. The rest of them just barely passed the written part of the exam, and certainly didn't catch on to ideas like extended rear-facing (which, honestly, wasn't even really emphasized in the training).

I know that many of these people are now doing installations locally, and I often get calls/emails from parents who have been given terrible advice from the "technicians" at the fire station. And I have seen firsthand some of the unacceptable installations they have done.

I think the only thing we can do is spread the word that firefighter and EMT CPSTs should not necessarily be trusted. Here we have a Safe Kids check-point where people can go for installations, and that's always what I recommend. Otherwise, I think parents are probably better off doing their own (extensive) research, seriously reading the car and car seat manuals and learning how to do a correct installation themselves. I did the CPST training to make it official, but I didn't learn anything about installing car seats that I didn't already know from teaching myself (mostly through online resources). I learned about state laws and regulations, but that's about it.

HTH!

Lex


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

These threads always end up with a couple issues. First of all, I work with dozens of techs, many cops and firefighters that are very, very good techs. Sure, there are some bad ones in the bunch, there always are, no matter what group of professionals you are dealing with. We don't expect all doctors to give great breast-feeding advice, or all preschool teachers to run their rooms using gentle discipline. I know it's frustrating, and I've seen things that have made my toes curl that other techs have done, but I will stand up and say the majority are good, and mean very well. Extended rear facing was not emphasized in the curriculum until the new one came out, a few years ago. I disagree with the suggestion that parents should simply learn their own seats well, as opposed to seeing a tech. Sure parents should learn their own seats well, absolutely! But we run a 90 to 100% misuse rate, consistently. I vary, vary rarely see a 100% correct seat.

And secondly, there are many reasons an 18 month old would be given a FFing seat. In our area, the number one reason, by far, would be that the PARENT preferred it. I am not going to give a parent that says she will FF a RF seat, I will try to educate her, but in the end, it's the parents decision. And many parents choose to FF before they should. Secondly, as an OP said, it could have been lack of other available seats. I would wager you that the 18 month old was not fitting well in the infant carrier, and is safer now in this seat, EVEN if it is forward facing. Because the best seat is the one that fits your CHILD correctly, your vehicle correctly, and can be used correctly every time. It certainly is not ideal, but it is at least equally important the child now has a properly fitted, safe seat.


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## KayleeZoo (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

I think the only thing we can do is spread the word that firefighter and EMT CPSTs should not necessarily be trusted
I agree. The only time I had a tech. check my seats, he argued with me about Britax convertibles being able to be tethered RF, told me that my 2yo was too old to RF (she was under 20lbs in a Britax Wizard), didn't want to uninstall the Husky and re-install it, so gave it a quick tug and told me it looked great







and said that my 4yo (not even close to 40lbs) should be in a booster- that the Husky was overkill for a kid that age.

It's kinda like relying on the nurses in the hospital to teach you about breastfeeding. You may get someone who knows their, um, hiney from their elbow







, and then again, you may not. Best to educate yourself and be confident that you can install your own seats safely, just like it's best to learn how to bf your baby before he/she is born if you're birthing in a hospital.


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## MommaCrystal (May 25, 2006)

Ugh! I sat through a presentation by a cop at our mom's group. His info was terribly out of date. He wasn't even up on recent changes in the law! I was SO aggravated. I'm like the carseat safety Nazi in the group and I had so hoped this guy would reinforce at least one or two of things I personally suggest. He didn't and looked at me like I was weird when I asked questions. UGH!


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemyavery* 
Sure, there are some bad ones in the bunch, there always are, no matter what group of professionals you are dealing with. We don't expect all doctors to give great breast-feeding advice, or all preschool teachers to run their rooms using gentle discipline.

My advice that parents should try to self-educate applies to all areas, not just car safety. I don't think anyone should simply trust the professionals--be them pediatricians or preschool teachers or lactation consultants--but should combine professional advice/support with his/her own research.

The vast majority of seats I have checked have been installed incorrectly as well (I would guess it's probably about 98% misuse rate), including the seats that were previously installed by the techs at the fire station. The only seats I've checked that have been installed well were installed by parents who did hours of their own research, and then came to me just to make sure they had done it right.

Lex


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Our van was rear-ended as we were waiting at a stoplight when my older two were 3 years (ds1) and 13 months (dd). 911 was called and I called my husband to come. I asked the police officer about the seats because I wanted to know if we could drive with the carseats or if I needed to have dh stop and buy new ones on his way to us. The police officer pointed out that dd could be switched to FF. I just kind of looked at him and stated, "Legally, that's true. However, I want her to be as safe as possible and she has a long time left RFing in her carseat." He just looked at me and kind of walked off.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

I just have to roll my eyes every time I see people going ZOMG a toddler in a FF seat, ZOMG the sky is falling. COMMON knowledge is 1 yr and 20lb. Yes, it is absolutely better for rear face extended. But, until it is BLARED all over media and seat regs are changed to reflect that it is safer to rearface extended, you can't fault people for following what is acceptable both legally and by seat rules. If you have a seat that says that it is able to be used ff with a 1yo who is 20lb, you are using the seat within the rules of that seat. Maybe the US shouldn't HAVE seats available FF for 1yo and 20lb. THAT would be the best scenario- if it's not available, people can't use them wrong. And change the laws to reflect it.

So really, you can't say there is only one answer, because it's not nearly that simple as things exist today.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
I just have to roll my eyes every time I see people going ZOMG a toddler in a FF seat, ZOMG the sky is falling. COMMON knowledge is 1 yr and 20lb. Yes, it is absolutely better for rear face extended. But, until it is BLARED all over media and seat regs are changed to reflect that it is safer to rearface extended, you can't fault people for following what is acceptable both legally and by seat rules. If you have a seat that says that it is able to be used ff with a 1yo who is 20lb, you are using the seat within the rules of that seat. Maybe the US shouldn't HAVE seats available FF for 1yo and 20lb. THAT would be the best scenario- if it's not available, people can't use them wrong. And change the laws to reflect it.

So really, you can't say there is only one answer, because it's not nearly that simple as things exist today.

And isn't spreading that knowledge exactly why car seat technicians and professionals should be giving correct, current information?


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

for example, I just looked quickly at a few high weight rear facing seats, the true fit, myride and britax regent(ff only, but still certed for use for 1yo). All are certified for 1yr WHY? Why go to the trouble of making a seat that is capable of holding a child to 35-40 and still let the seat be used ff for a 1yo?

And how do we expect parents to continue to rear face their 1yo when ALL of the easily available information says that it is ok to ff at 1yo and 20lb. Especially when most people are getting their info from the carseat box or manual.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
I just have to roll my eyes every time I see people going ZOMG a toddler in a FF seat, ZOMG the sky is falling. COMMON knowledge is 1 yr and 20lb. Yes, it is absolutely better for rear face extended. But, until it is BLARED all over media and seat regs are changed to reflect that it is safer to rearface extended, you can't fault people for following what is acceptable both legally and by seat rules. If you have a seat that says that it is able to be used ff with a 1yo who is 20lb, you are using the seat within the rules of that seat. Maybe the US shouldn't HAVE seats available FF for 1yo and 20lb. THAT would be the best scenario- if it's not available, people can't use them wrong. And change the laws to reflect it.

So really, you can't say there is only one answer, because it's not nearly that simple as things exist today.

I'm sorry, perhaps you missed the point of this thread. I wasn't criticizing the mother for having a FF toddler. In fact, if it has just been that this was the seat she chose in Walmart, I wouldn't have batted an eye, because yes, 1 year and 20 lbs is the "minimum". What this thread was about was the fact that this baby is being put in a FF seat by a car seat tech ( I would have to investigate whether they are certified or not), who should know better. I want to know what can be done about this, whether going to the press, or getting Safe Kids to contact them or any other effective way.

Again, I'm thrilled that she went to get a carseat and didn't turn her baby around FF in a bucket, or just put them in a seat belt, or have them bouncing around the car. What pisses me off is that she goes to the people that are supposed to have good advice, and gets piss poor advice. Basically, they told her that since he's at the weight and height limit, he can be FF no problem, and it's legal anyways.







I mean, sure, it's legal to go 65mph on the highway when it's pouring. It doesn't mean it's safe, and the laws of physics don't care about legalities. Your butt is still getting scraped off the pavement when you wrap yourself around the telephone pole, you know?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

(Assuming he is indeed certified) Contacting SafeKids, unfortunately, probably won't do much. He was not following best practice, but what he did was legal if the child fit in the seat (the Cosco HBB is a harnessed seat that converts to a booster). I don't think SafeKids will intervene about poor judgement. If the child is under 34", however, he cannot use that seat legally because Dorel has a 34" minimum to forward-face in its seats, and then you *would* have a reason to report him to SafeKids.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

I guess if they are giving away free seats, she should be happy that she got a seat that is marketed and therefore safe for his age, weight and height. I imagine it is like a PP said-when you are giving away free seats, it is most likely that you would save seats that are rearfacing for babies under 1. The safest thing is definitely rear facing. Yes, absolutely.

Did your friend know that it is safer to have her child rearfacing for as long as possible, and that it was safer to have a high weight rearfacing seat? I am assuming she probably would, since you as her friend are very knowledgeable. Did she ask if she could have a rearfacing seat or state her preference in having one?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Here at MDC most of us roll our eyes at parents who formula-feed by choice and put cereal in bottles so newborns will sleep, and at parents who CIO, and all sorts of other choices that are not only perfectly legal but apparently endorsed by "the mainstream". I'm not really in favor of legislating away choices, no matter how horrendous the choices are, but am more than willing to educate about the consequences of those choices instead of agreeing that they're hunky-dory.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I have another thought here. You say that she was given the seat for free by the fire dept. This means that the fire dept had this particular seat available and saw that the child fit properly into it. It does not automatically mean that this was the BEST fit of all carseats out there, it just means that the baby came in with an outgrown seat and left in a seat that fulfilled the minimum requirements. It's not like the mom came in with an appropriate seat and the Fire Dept. told her to use something less safe- they were limited to whatever carseats the dept had invested in or that had been donated.

I don't know if it's really the responsibility of the local fire dept to give out "the absolutely best, safest seats on the market"- their focus is probably on "good enough". Get kids into seats that they fit into, and keep them rearfacing until at least 12mo. Yes, *WE* on this board know better, that kids should RF until age 2 or longer, but that's hardly common knowledge, and the current carseat laws don't support that either.

It's a *huge* problem if they put a 30" tall baby into a seat for kids 34" and up. But it's really not an issue if they put a 12 or 13mo baby forward facing, as long as the baby fits properly into the seat they gave them.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
Otherwise, I think parents are probably better off doing their own (extensive) research, seriously reading the car and car seat manuals and learning how to do a correct installation themselves. I did the CPST training to make it official, but I didn't learn anything about installing car seats that I didn't already know from teaching myself (mostly through online resources). I learned about state laws and regulations, but that's about it.

HTH!

Lex

I agree. We went and had our infant seat checked when I was 8 months pregnant because we couldn't get it tight enough. Then I did tons and tons of research and that combined with what the CPST showed us taught us a lot. DH installed both convertibles fairly easily and they are TIGHT and at the proper level/angle. I'm confident that we know what we're doing so far though I still need to learn at each new step (new seats).

I learned about ERF online. I think that is a shame. This info should be given out at the pedi's office.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
I think the only thing we can do is spread the word that firefighter and EMT CPSTs should not necessarily be trusted. Here we have a Safe Kids check-point where people can go for installations, and that's always what I recommend. Otherwise, I think parents are probably better off doing their own (extensive) research, seriously reading the car and car seat manuals and learning how to do a correct installation themselves. I did the CPST training to make it official, but I didn't learn anything about installing car seats that I didn't already know from teaching myself (mostly through online resources). I learned about state laws and regulations, but that's about it.

HTH!

Lex


We actually have some really great cop CPSTs in our area, and I've gotten to volunteer with several of them. I mentioned one in the PM, and he's just the bee's knees









The SK coordinator really works with them, though, to keep them shipshape. Unfortunately, there are some old dogs out there, but I've been pleasantly surprised with some of them.


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## Maedze (Dec 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
I just have to roll my eyes every time I see people going ZOMG a toddler in a FF seat, ZOMG the sky is falling. COMMON knowledge is 1 yr and 20lb. Yes, it is absolutely better for rear face extended. But, until it is BLARED all over media and seat regs are changed to reflect that it is safer to rearface extended, you can't fault people for following what is acceptable both legally and by seat rules. If you have a seat that says that it is able to be used ff with a 1yo who is 20lb, you are using the seat within the rules of that seat. Maybe the US shouldn't HAVE seats available FF for 1yo and 20lb. THAT would be the best scenario- if it's not available, people can't use them wrong. And change the laws to reflect it.

So really, you can't say there is only one answer, because it's not nearly that simple as things exist today.


Pardon us, we're doing the best we can


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

There is only one safest answer. Doesn't matter what the laws are, doesn't mean parents who don't know what the safest answer is are bad parents, but for someone to KNOW that rearfacing is so much safer and NOT share that knowledge is messed up.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maedze* 
Unfortunately there are REALLY bad CPSTs out there, often times cops or firefighters who are doing it because they were ordered too, or they're getting a stipend to do it.

I think this bears repeating - just because someone has some letters after their names does always make them an expert in every situation.


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## annekh23 (Nov 1, 2008)

I don't really know enough about what a car seat tech is supposed to be doing, so I can't really comment about that.

However, something that no one seems to have mentioned, but bothers me more from a safety perspective and that I routinely see people do is to use a seat such as this one at this stage, when it is legal, but not best practice, but who then go on to use it as a booster way too soon and usually illegally (I haven't checked individual state laws recently).

Some of these combo seats can be used according to their instructions as boosters from 30lb and a lot of people use the instructions as their guide without even checking the law.

The carseats I've owned have always said somewhere in the instructions that they must be used in accordance with the law AND the instructions. On seeing a friend using a Cosco seat, probably an older version of this one talked about here with her child who was almost 2, but tall and well built, it was so against anything I knew about carseats at the time (this was 3 years ago) that I spoke my mind without thinking, so I probably wasn't as tactful or thoughtful as I could have been, but I made it abundantly clear that this was against the state law. I couldn't believe her response that the instructions didn't tell her to follow the law and she believed the instructions were the best guide to safety. She even reread the instructions and showed them to me that they didn't mention following state law!!!!

I can understand a little bit where she was coming from, she had lived in the UK (which is where I met her, I'm a Brit, but moved to the US 3 years ago), where until recently the car seat law was exceedingly vague, roughly "if a carseat is available it must be used according to the manufacturer's instructions" and there are car seats available there that can be used forward facing as a booster from 9 months, which apparently meet the European standards.

But I don't think her behaviour is atypical, state law is 40lb AND 4yrs for a booster, I see plenty of belt positioning boosters in use at preschool, some correctly, but many failing on one or both criteria.

So whilst I don't see this carseat and it's current usage as ideal, I'm more worried about the possibility that it didn't come with clear and strict advice as to when to use it as a booster than I am about it being less than ideal now, particularly as personal experience suggests that the seat to booster transition laws are much less well known than the RF to FF laws.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

So, as far as CPST training goes, does the training tell cpst installers that is it absolutely crucial to rearface until AT LEAST 2yrs or that when outgrowing the rearfacing seat at 18m that it is crucial to buy another rearfacing seat until the child is 30-33-35lb and several years older? I am honestly curious of how strongly this information is relayed, and further, how ofter is this material required to be reviewed by certified techs?


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

I personally had this group of firefighters laughing and saying they hated the class, couldn't wait to get it over with. This, of course, was also to a friend who was about to take a CPST class and excited about it. I know she also said she was the only one to take the class that was excited about it and doing it because she wanted to. It's a requirement for some jobs, which I guess can pose a problem when they really just don't care much.

However, there are many, many wonderful CPSTs, and these are the ones I recommend to people. A few bad apples shouldn't change the overall view of what these people do. CPSTs do it on a volunteer basis, because it's important to them. I'm not sure why some people have such a nasty attitude towards them.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

We are required to recertify every two years, and renewal includes either a class or a certain number of CEUs. The CPST curriculum includes rear-facing to the limits of the seat. As with every profession, there are good, bad, and mediocre folks doing the job. There are also good, bad, and mediocre instructors.

That doesn't change the fact that it is extremely unsafe to FF at 18 months (just like a pediatrician saying that formula is fine doesn't make breastmilk any less best). CPSTs should teach best practices -- we are educators, not "installers" -- but parents are also responsible for reading their carseat manuals (almost every manual I have seen states that children should rearface to the limits of the seat) and learning about how to keep their kids safest.


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## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hillymum* 
Was it a booster with a 5 point harnes? If so why is that such a bad thing? I'm sorry but I disagree about children needing to be rear facing after they are a year old as long as they are the right weight or more.

Anyone can disagree but your statement is incorrect and 40 years out of date. Independent and peer reviewed research has clearly shown rear facing children are 500% safer. That's a huge number which saves many lives.

One must realize that most US parents don't know that rear facing is 500% safer. Most also don't know car seat habits in US are 30 years behind others. I find that many parents who learn the facts respond very nicely and are appreciative for the information.

There are also people disagreeing about the earth being round and about us landing on the moon even though there is no doubt about it.

Some people at fire departments are very knowledgeable and others are not. It's IMHO far better for a parents to learn personally hat's safer and how to install seats. Someone with knowledge can greatly influence decisions and teach parents about rear facing etc. Like Chickabiddy says, RF at 18 months old is 500% safer and makes a huge difference in even a minor collision. There are many things which are legal but still horrible for safety.....


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
We are required to recertify every two years, and renewal includes either a class or a certain number of CEUs. The CPST curriculum includes rear-facing to the limits of the seat. As with every profession, there are good, bad, and mediocre folks doing the job. There are also good, bad, and mediocre instructors.

That doesn't change the fact that it is extremely unsafe to FF at 18 months (just like a pediatrician saying that formula is fine doesn't make breastmilk any less best). CPSTs should teach best practices -- we are educators, not "installers -- but parents are also responsible for reading their carseat manuals (almost every manual I have seen states that children should rearface to the limits of the seat) and learning about how to keep their kids safest.

I just read the manual, both the ff part and the rear facing part, and NOWHERE in there does it say it is unsafe, either a little or extremely, to ff at 18m. It does say to rear face to the limits of the seat, and it does say that if an infant outgrows their rear face only infant seat to recommend a higher weight rear facing convertible seat. The only statements as far as concrete numbers for ff is 20lb and 1yr. The only mention I even saw to sweden's car seat practices was in reference to rear facing and tethering, which it said is common in Australia and sweden, but no very common here in the US. I also didn't see anything that said if a toddler outgrows a rear facing seat to recommend a new seat that is rearfacing. I have to give the benefit of the doubt that if it isn't listed in the book, it isn't being taught. Yes, a good instructor would absolutely be giving this info, but if it isn't in the book, it isn't a guarantee that ALL instructors would give this info.

I guess what I am getting at here is that if CPST aren't going further than their class info, and from what it sounds like, it is only the women from these boards who are passionate or even taking these classes because they want to, the info that they have at hand is what is leading them to recommend an 18mo to be in a ff seat.

Also, the manual that is available to download is from april 2007. Is there one that is more up to date? This was from Safekids.org http://www.cpsboard.org/techmanual.htm


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I really don't understand what you're getting at. There is tons of information about why RFing is safer than FFing. FFing at 12mo/20# is legal as long as the child fits in the seat (and a 30" child cannot legally FF in a Dorel seat). I'm not arguing that. Nor am I saying that the CPST who gave a FFing seat should be in trouble for giving that seat IF the child fit in it, which it seems it does not.

It wasn't best practice. Not all CPSTs (or OBs, or MDs, or IBCLCs, etc.) observe best practice. That doesn't make best practice any less best. If a parent chooses to do the legally required minimum, that's her choice and I'll respect it. If that parent then claims that it's a *safe* choice, that's when I'll argue.


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Even the AAP (which let's face it, is behind on the times) switched their official stance to say that children should be RFing until at least age 2.


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