# Support - Moms of 6-9 month old frequent wakers



## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, here's the thread I said I'd start. Let's share horror stories.

When my dd was very little, she woke only once/night, but got up at 6 a.m. I thought this was terrible and couldn't wait until she'd sleep until 8 a.m.

When she was 3 months old, she started sleeping longer in the morning but began waking 3 times/night. I thought this was terrible and couldn't wait until she would return to sleeping longer stretches.

When she was 5 months old, she started waking every 2 - 3 hours. I thought this was as bad as it could get and couldn't wait until she went back to waking only 3 times/night.

Now she is 7 months old and wakes every hour. I'd think it was heaven if she'd return to waking every 2 - 3 hours. My gosh, what I'd give for 3 straight hours of sleep!! Boy, how our perceptions change.

So, Acugirl, Mona, Hollyhobbie, etc. here's our thread. Let's support each other. I'm off to bed...I like to be asleep before she wakes me up!!


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

just to offer some hope in the no rhyme or reason department...baby-loo slept 5 hrs last night from 12-5! i think she went longer without nursing as dad walked her just before midnight to put her back to sleep!! i posted on the other thread too. i was reading sears fussy/high needs baby book that i got from the library and it really helped to know it is just her way of being in the world ya know. i didnt give her solids last night and just a couple of nights ago she was waking every hr!! she slept very well when she was young but has not slept thru since she was about 12 weeks old. ofcourse i was awake and wondering what was going on. i dont expect it to last but i think maybe she will sleep more on occassion since i have seen signs that she wants to put herself back to sleep and not nurse all the time. she is working hard at it. but i totally hear the sentiment of wanting 3 hrs in a row. i crave sleep the way some ppl crave chocolate or sex. i have been desperate enuf to consider leaving dh with her for the night with a bottle and go to a hotel. sad thing is i probably wouldnt sleep there either so there isnt much point. lets keep the support going. i have lost one so called friend over this issue (her ff baby sleeps 12 hrs!! and she blames me for babes lack of sleep...who needs that!!) so lets be there to hear each other.


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## grian (Feb 26, 2003)

I am right here with you all, my dd 8.5 mos. is up all night. I sttribute it to teeth and seperation anxiety at the moment. I am also having a horrible time getting her to sleep at bedtime ( I started a thread on that so I won't go into it here ). My ds did the same thing when he was younger but at 2.5 years now he goes to sleep on his own and sleeps through the night. There is light!


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

My dd is seven months old and she is up every 2 to 3 hours. Every now and then she will go 5 and I will be so excited--maybe this will be a new trend but it usually only happens once! Last night my husband rocked her to sleep when she woke up at 11 which was only two hours after she had gone to sleep after marathon nursing. She only slept for 30 minutes. It is so hard. If I had gotten up with her at 11 she would have been back to sleep in 15 minutes. When dh got up with her at 11, it took until 11:30 to get her to sleep. I was awake the whole time. Then, just as I am drifting off around 12, she wakes again!!

Any advice? Do most nurse whenever they wake or have dp try to help. I worry when dh rocks her to sleep that she really is hungry and I am ignoring her needs!

I dream of a full night sleep. Can you imagine???


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Count me in too!
Up until dd was 3 months she was sleeping great-peacefully right next to our bed, waking to eat around 2AM and sleeping until 7.

Then she started waking every 2 hrs and has pretty much been doing that ever since... I think the longest stretch she has ever done is about 3.5 hrs.
I ALWAYS have to nurse her back to sleep when she wakes up-or else big fit! I have no clue if she is really hungry or not.

Right now, she sleeps in the cosleeper right next to our bed and I just nurse her when she wakes. She usually goes to bed around 8:30 or 9, wakes around midnight, 3, 5 and is up for the day around 7. Lately, however, she has been trying to wake up for the day at 5:30 or 6 and sometimes if I get out of bed and rock her she will go back to sleep.

I have no clue how to change this-I can't and won't do CIO, so for now, I try to nap when she does sometimes and just try to really believe in my heart that I am doing the right thing for her.


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## cciele (Apr 6, 2003)

OMG, it's good to know I'm not alone. I mean, I don't wish anyone to have sleep issues, but just knowing other people are out there that are surviving/have survived the constant night wakings makes me feel like I'm not screaming alone in the dark.

Acugirl -- my DD, who will soon be 8 months old, has similar sleep patterns as yours! Gotta love those 5 or 6 am wakings. We just "play dead" and let her crawl around. Some of the times she goes back to sleep herself, but it takes 1-1.5 hours and I have to stay awake and make sure she doesn't crawl off the bed (she sleeps in a sidecar crib.)

My DD has never slept through the night. Typically she wakes up every 1 or 2 hours. At first, I attributed the wakings to growth spurts (6 weeks, 12 weeks, 6 months), developmental (rolling over at 4 months, crawling at 6 months in sleep and crying), or teething. At best, around 5 months, she woke two or three times at night to feed. I hoped things would get better but now things have regressed. I don't think she's ever slept more than 3 hours without waking/semi-waking and crying.

Problems are made worse by her biting me while nursing







Whenever she starts crying at night I try to nurse her back down. But sometimes she bites me so I stop nursing her. Then she starts wailing, so my DH and I are both up trying to put her back to sleep -- walking, rubbing back, singing, rocking, etc. Sometimes she keeps crying and crying her heart out. I know the boob is the quickest way to get her to go back to sleep, but I can't stand to be bitten. Eventually, she falls asleep, crying, out of sheer exhaustion, with periodic sobbing hiccups in her sleep. It breaks my heart.









I just keep telling myself things will get better. But I want to continue our nursing and cosleeping relationship. I love nursing her, except for the biting part! I don't know what to do either.

Well, that was pretty long... thanks for hearing me out!

Cathy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

DD has never been a good sleeper. Oh wait, about one week before her first tooth appeared (At age 4 months!!!!







)
she slept for 3- 4 hours straight. It was like she had finally develped a strong enough digestive system to not be woken by gas. But then teeth entered the picture, and sleep exited!







:
She will sleep "decently" (read: 1 three hour stretch, and 2 hour stretches) right after her teeth come in, but she only gets a few days of rest before the next one starts making its way up.
The last month she has had two colds, making it even more interesting.
I found tooth #7 this evening, so maybe she will sleep better tonight?

I still love the question- is she sleeping through the night?







:
She has nursed every two hours around the clock, what can I say? LOL

I do try to get the paci into her mouth if i know she isn't hungry. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The last thing i'll say is that she has not been taking her usual late afternoon naps, so she's been going to bed at 7pm. Which is great, except that she wakes for good b/w 5 and 6am. If only i could go to sleep at 7pm....









great thread!!!


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

OK, so do any of you question whether you're doing the right thing? Twice today I was told stories of parents who finally broke down and did the CIO thing, and within 2 nights (story 1), 1 weekend (story 2) their babes were sleeping through the night. And their babes never held it against their parents and they're happy, functioning children/adults, etc. etc. I'm sure you've heard the same thing a million times.

Sometimes I wonder? Yet, today I let DD cry for all of 5 minutes in her buggy and it drove me crazy. I couldn't stand to hear it.


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

My daughter is now 11.5 months, but we had those problems when she was younger, too. I don't even mind the frequent waking, if she would go to sleep in the first place. There have been nights when I've nursed her for 4 hours straight, but at least I can sleep through it.
Lately I've been considering CIO, but I don't think I could live with myself. She has three teeth coming in at once, and is on the verge of walking, so I think that's the root of the sleep problems right now. For a while, we were taking her for a drive to put her to sleep, but the gas just got too expensive.


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## tug (Jun 16, 2003)

I've been reading the several current threads on nightwaking over the past couple of weeks b/c my ds (7 mos) is doing the same thing - sometimes it's every hour, sometimes just once every four. Like many of you said, I've been miserably sleep-deprived (and, in my case, incredibly self-pitying about it). I've been mad at ds for biting me and mad at him for waking screaming and impatient for him to finish nursing (b/c the biting means I don't fall back asleep) and mad at myself for being mad at him. I also can't do the CIO thing because of the "ripping my heart out" effect. So, I've been reading all of these threads going, "yup, yup, i know what you mean."

and then last night while nursing ds to sleep (oh yeah, what is it that the "child whisperer" says about food, activity, sleep being the order of things? yeah right! -- sarcasm), anyway, i'm nursing him to sleep and he is scratching me and nipping and i'm reading the new "mothering" and there is an article about meditation and nursing, sangha. and in this little story, the author was describing how for the first six months of her son's life she was impatient while he nursed and felt pinned down and made phone calls and tried to keep up with things, etc etc, suddenly at six months she gave up and let go. and then, when he woke at night, she would think of all of the other mothers around the world nursing their babies at that moment. and suddenly, for me too, it was all cool. and when he woke up at last night and was nursing him, i was thinking of all of you out there doing the same thing and i was thinking that this is a great community and i'm glad to be a part of it and it does give me strength and peace.

anyway, it was a good article.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

Tonight when I get up at 11, 1, 4, and 6 I will think about all the other mamas out there who are also up and nursing their dc.

I am still waiting for someone to post here that says: "My dd used to do the same thing and then I did this...." And it isn't CIO. And we can all try that and then all our dc will sleep for longer stretches!!

I have such a problem with trying to let her fall back to sleep by herself in the middle of the night because it really just prolongs the time that I am awake. She may start making noise at 2am. I will let her be and she will be quiet for a few minutes, then make a noise, then be quiet and then 45 minutes later she is awake and needing me! By the time I nurse her and put her back to sleep, it is 3:15. If I had gotten up with her at the first noise, I would have been back asleep at 2:30! Sometimes I feel like I can't win!

I am a WOHM and I wonder if it is more difficult for me to come to work when I am so sleep deprived or those SAHM that have other children they need to entertain! I can't imagine keeping up with a toddler when I am so sleepy.

Thanks for all the support and I advise avoiding the post on Life with a Babe about the good sleepers!!


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

i am tired...but i will tonight make an effort to think of you all nursing your babes and all the countless other women out there nursing their babies and hope it will be ok for a little while longer. g'night.


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## lisamarie (Nov 19, 2001)

Hope you don't mind me joining, even though my dd is only 4 1/2 mo. old.

At the beginning, she slept pretty well with us too. But now, we go down at about 8-9 pm and she wakes at usually midnight, 2, 4, 5 and 6:00. But at 5:00 is when if she had it her way, we would get up and party! Last night/this morning, I had her laying across my body and rocking her to get her to sleep. Don't know why this is happening! She still sleeps with us and I can't imagine having her in her room (my ds slept with us until he was almost 4 yo). But she does nap in her crib during the day.

Have any of you read the "No Cry Sleep..." by Elizabeth Pantly?

Warmly/Tiredly~

Lisa:bf


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

The other night ds who's 8.5 mos nursed at least 15 times in the night! He's a big night nurser. I think it's just his sleeping personality. People are always so quick to ask, 'is he sleeping thru the night?' Are they serious? I want to ask them, 'do you sleep thru the night? :LOL Anyway I truly think there are sleeping personalities in babes. My friend has a babe the same age as ds and he slept mostly thru the night from day one. Sounds like all us mamas got blessed with the night nurser/wakers. Some mornings I wake up exhausted and other mornings not. It doesn't always relate to how much ds nursed either. Tho obviously if it was a 20 nursings night the effect is more pronounced. Dh and I were talking about how I used to need at least 8 hrs sleep a night, better 10. Boy have things changed!

Anyway I'm with all you mamas. I, too, read that article and found it inspiring and last night thought of you all as I comforted ds for the 5th time.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

lisamarie, i just wanted to say yup that is when the sleeping pattern went all to hell for baby-loo and we are still struggling to get a few hrs in at a time. i try so hard to stay positive during all this. i dont want to look back and have regrets ya know. i wanted so much to enjoy this long awaited little human being. acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. do you struggle with this? at not letting the lack of sleep cloud the whole picture of what a wonderful babe you have? baby-loo is a truly amazing small individual. she is bright, funny and joyful. she has hit all her milestones early and is so full of beans!! sears says that high needs babies sleep less and eat more often but they all have some special gift to give. i think this is true. so come on, tell us what special gift your baby has to offer the world!!!!


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## lisamarie (Nov 19, 2001)

Yes, hollyhobbie (love that name BTW, brings back alot of fond childhood memories!







) how true.

With my ds, he wasn't/hasn't been the best night time sleeper. It took me until he was 18 mo. to accept that. He was/is such a kind and sensitive little boy that if this was his "weakness" (I hate to use that term), than so be it. I'm starting to accept my dd in her uniqueness too. She is such a happy baby, a great little nurser and wakes up always so smiley







. Even last night, at 3:00 am, I was looking at her and even though I was TIRED, I knew that ALL of this is going to pass SO quickly. I grieved so much when my ds self weaned, so I am truly trying to cherish every moment of this.

Warmly~

Lisa:bf


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Well, last night was just about as bad as it's been-dd went peacefully to bed at 8:15. Woke about 20 min later and went right back to sleep when I patted her-very unusal. This continued until about 10 when I went to bed. She woke to nurse every 1/2 hr to hr until 2 and then was up straight from 2-4! I know she is teething really badly-getting all 4 top teeth at once-so I think (HOPE) that was the reason.

I like the idea about trying to focus on the good things of our babies...dd is SO wonderful-bright, funny, smart, cute, ahead on her milestones etc. Sometimes I do think that babies who don't sleep so well are a bit advanced in other ways (not that babies who do sleep well are behind)...but, I do think there might be some correlation.

Right now she is sleeping in the sling-she woke up from a nap at 11:15 and was awake for 5 hrs even though we had an hr car ride-she would NOT fall asleep the whole time. Now it is 5Pm and she is fast asleep so who knows what that means for tonight.

I have been thinking of you all in the wee hrs of the night and it does help-I also read that article and have been focusing on trying to relax at night and not focus on the frustration. Another thing that has helped is no matter how horrible the night was, in the morning we get up and go for a walk. The exercise helps the body and the mind and I feel much better and dd likes it too.


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

Ok, I'm going to be flamed for this probably, but last night was my dd's first night in her new crib. We had a sidecar for the first 7 months of her life, but she was waking every hour and it was getting to be too much for me. I have bad PPD and need sleep. I have always put her to bed awake, so I just laid her in the crib in her brother's room and patted her till she fell asleep. She slept better last night than she has in months. I only got up twice to comfort her and once to nurse her.

I am definitely not saying to put your babies in a crib. I am not trying to convert anyone or give advice here. I'm just saying I had to do it so my baby could have a well rested mother during the day.
I think she was waking up because of me, or I was waking up and comforting her before she needed me too.

I actually read ferber's book and while I DO NOT agree with his CIO, he makes a lot of valid points about sleep associations. I read secrets of the baby whisperer, and agree with her style. She is kind of middle of the road. Not for CIO, but not for the family bed either.

So hopefully things continue on well, I don't mind getting up 3 times a night, but 8 or 9 is just too much for me.
Corrie


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## Feb2003 (Jul 20, 2003)

corrie43, why would you be flamed? It's not necessary to have her in your room to be an attached pair! I think it's much more important that you find what works for BOTH of you! It sounds like this might be a success for you both, so congratulations! I agree that you have to take care of yourself in order to be the best mom to her...keep it up and enjoy your sleep (I'm jealous!)


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

My goodness, Corrie 43, I would never flame you! If my dd slept better in her crib, that's where she'd be!
Anyway, on a positive note, my dd went one 3 hour stretch last night. I actually woke up with a hard breast!! YIPPEEEEEEE! I'm convinced it's the beginning of a trend. (one has to be positive)


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## galadriel (Jan 21, 2003)

Hi Lisa!

Katie is just about 5 months, and nightwaking started for the first time ever last night. She is learning to crawl, and she's completely obsessed. She woke up, rolled onto her hands and knees, and gave me a big, wide awake grin: "I'm ready to play now, mama!" Aiieeee! We've slept 12 hours a night since she was born (with nursing during our sleep). UNTIL NOW

Have others of you found that the nightwaking occurs with hitting milestones?

Groggily,
--Melissa


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Off topic

Ubertulip, I love your babe's name. For some reason, I find myself repeating it over and over in my head. I think it's the Galadriel part that sticks.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hey Island Mommy the same thing happened here. I couldn't believe it. And just after I'd posted on this thread. Hmm. Ubertulip my ds is doing the same thing. I lie there trying to nurse him to sleep. He suckles a little then rolls over and gets up on his hands and knees and gives me the most gleeful smile. I just can't help but smile back. He seems so delighted with himself. Anyway I too have been wondering if the family bed is contributing to ds's wakefulness but we've tried putting him in the co-sleeper and he doesn't even seem to like that distance between us.









What kind of nappers does everyone have?


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

So, I just received some advice from a sister of a friend on how to have dd sleep longer at night. It was a CIO method, of course, so does not bear repeating here. However, here was her last quote:

Quote:

This is the hardest thing we ever did but it was the best thing as well. My doctor gave me a book to read about sleep and if a baby is sleep deprived (which your friend's baby probably is), they can't function as well. We also noticed that once Alison started putting herself to sleep, she got so much more pleasant.
This is what gets me. Everyone who does CIO justifies it by saying their baby is happier/more content/less fussy, etc. after they do it. Do they just say this to justify what they've done, or is it really true?

My dd is really quite happy during the day. She only fusses just before naptime and is generally content. She plays by herself quite a bit and is busy exploring her environment. She doesn't nap excessively during the day, so I'd be hard pressed to see how it could get better.

Solsticemama, my dd naps well if she falls asleep in her buggy...usually over an hour and often close to 2 hours. When I nurse her to sleep, she rarely sleeps for more than 45 minutes before waking and wanting to nurse again. Hmmm, food for thought there.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

In regards to the quote you posted above, i think it is a bit of self rationalization going on. I also think you have to question, what is "pleasant" behavior for a child? To be self sufficient enough to fall asleep by her/him self, and so to be self sufficient enough to play by herself too? Not that there is anything wrong w/ some self sufficiency, but I don't think that at 8 months DD should be self sufficient. Of course, that is where AP and traditional parenting stray, isn't it?

Anyway, I could personally never let my child cry it out. I think it scars in ways parents will never truly know.

Napping- DD also sleeps in her stroller sometimes. Other times she falls asleep while nursing, and then I transfer her to her car seat. If I lay her down, chances are she will wake up. Something about the confinement of the car seat keeps her sleeping.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Just on the subject of napping, it's 6:26 p.m. and dd is still down for her afternoon nap!!! She's been asleep for at least 2 hours, probably more. Who knows what time she'll go to bed!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Island Mommy let us know how your night went. A 2 hour nap close to bedtime...we'll be thinking of you. Ds went down relatively early tonight so we'll see how it goes.


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## cciele (Apr 6, 2003)

Ah, napping. My 8-month old DD has more or less consolidated to two naps a day (occassionally she'll have a three napper). She sleeps anywhere from 40 minutes to 2.5 hrs for either nap, but mostly her naps average around 50 minutes. I can't discern a pattern yet on why she sleeps longer for some naps--wish I knew how to encourage the 2 hour naps! However, she had a really long nap after a swim lesson, and a friend of mine noted her son slept particularly well after swimming too.

I either nurse her or sling her to sleep. She's fallen asleep by herself only two or three times when she was much younger.

Cathy


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## tug (Jun 16, 2003)

Island Mommy - I think you answered your own question about whether making children CIO (there's no allowing CIO in my opinion, there's only forcing it) makes them more well-adjusted. You said, "I'd be hard pressed to see how it could get better." I think that you know that the answer is that your child is well adjusted and that your being there for her in the night for comfort or snacking is giving her a secure environment in which she is comfortable playing on her own sometimes and napping on her own. I agree with Mona that it seems like CIO would scar in ways that are not apparent to us yet. Who knows but that it may lead to an insecure adult who is either clingy in relationships or unable to form relationships?

I did read recently about something called "systematic awakening." Acc. to this method, you try to chart when they wake for a week, then you set an alarm for approx. 1/2 hour before their "usual" (if there is one) awakening time and do whatever you would normally do (pacifier, nurse, rocking) until they go back to sleep. Then you gradually increase the amount of time between when you wake them. I dunno. It's just another idea on the subject.

tug


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, after that long nap until 6:30 p.m. dd went to sleep for the night at around 9:30 p.m. which is really OK by me. I'm ready to go to sleep then too.

Yesterday she had a 3 hour nap in the morning!

We had 2 good nights and I was getting very optimistic, but last night was terrible. She wouldn't even settle after nursing and I was up bouncing, walking, etc. I don't know...teeth maybe? We EC too, so I finally thought she might need to poo, so got her up, but she didn't go. I gave her to my dh at 7:00 a.m. and went back to bed until 10:30.

You poor moms doing this probably think "what's this woman complaining about...she gets to go back to bed!" I am so lucky that dh is home too. He sleeps upstairs, so he is rested in the morning and is happy to take dd.

Right now he is trying to get dd to fall asleep in the living room just singing to her. She's fussing/crying a bit but she's not hysterical. We're hoping to get her used to falling asleep without the buggy, because the rains are going to start here soon and we won't be able to buggy her every day.

How are things going with everyone else?


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## organicbanana (Mar 25, 2002)

after a miserable night, i thought i'd come here and start a thread, and lo and behold, here it is already!
my 8mo was a basket case last night... and still is this morning - i'm typing this as he alternately latches on, and moments later breaks off and cries. i'm pretty sure it's teething related - but even the hylands tablets aren't seeming to help for long. he was awake & squirming around in bed screaming just about every half hour last night and nothing seemed to help. poor dh has to work a 12 hour shift today and neither of us got any substantial sleep.
only thing is, i might be able to sneak a nap later.
i wasn't noticing much of a letdown when he was nursing last night, but then i was disoriented, so who knows...
dh was frazzled enough this morning to suggest putting lij into the playyard to sleep for the night (that's where he naps in our room)
"so at least he wouldn't be right next to our ears" - as if 3 feet of distance would be more comfortable for anyone - especially lij.
i don't wish restless nights on anyone, but it's nice to know that i have company...
daydreaming of sleep...








-o


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Organicbanana- It does sound like your babe is teething. That is how DD acted anyway.
EIGHT teeth later (yikes!) she still feels every tooth, but not like the first four.

Sleeping... She didn't go to bed as usual last night. Was squirmy and moving all around while latched on.







: She finally fell asleep laying next to me. I was so tired by that point that i went to bed too. Which is fine bc i have a clogged duct/mastitis, and it is causing me to feel even more tired.
Anyway, during the night it is still about every two hours. The first round of sleep tends to be a bit longer, but then it is every two hours. Sometimes less. ugh. she woke at 5:45 this morning. ugh ugh but that is actually later then some mornings.







:
she had her first nap at 7:20! By that time I was too awake to fall back to sleep, but i did force myself to just laydown and be physically still even if my brain was moving.

Hope all of you are doing well....


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Disgusting night. DD falling asleep and waking up every 15-20 minutes. Only mildly happy when nursing, squirming all the time. I really want to go to my LLL meeting today, so am up and going although I only got about 1 - 2 hours sleep last night. Of course my LLL meeting is over on the big Island so I have to leave my house 2 hours before the meeting to catch the ferry, etc.

Maybe I'll nap this afternoon.









Must add though, that I was cuddling her and crying on her sweet head last night as I got myself all worried about this Iraq business and what kind of world had I brought her into. Gosh, I love her so much.


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## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

I just stumbled across this thread, and am glad to have found you all! I have two six-and-a-half-month-olds who wake up LOTS of times every night (I don't keep track or look at the clock because I think it would just depress me). They used to wake up only once or maybe twice (and have even "slept through" on occassion). These days I am definitelly often up every hour. The good thing is that when they wake up, they usually just nurse for just a minute or so and go right back to sleep. The bad thing is that at least once a night they wake up at the same time, and one screams while I nurse the other. They are still able to fall right back asleep, but DP and I are pretty wide-awake when that happens. They used to sleep well on their own next to me, but not touching me. Now they are each snuggled into an armpit all night long. I'm a bit trapped. Definitely can't get up to pee







.

I do love co-sleeping, though. Just can't wait for this very-frequent night-waking phase to end!

Lex


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## roseselene (Aug 3, 2003)

Hello! Just thought I'd chime in that I'm in the same position as well. DD is 8 1/2 months old and definitely teething. Just has 1 little tooth bud now. From 3 months until 6 months of age she slept through the night 8-9 hours, no waking up. Then between 6 months to 7 1/2 months she woke up once per night for a snack and straight back to sleep. Now recently, its squirm squirm squirm....wake up 2-3 times per night and over the last week its gotten worse where it seems like she's awake more than she's asleep. I think its definitely teething...and she's also trying to walk so who knows. DH and I are just a tad tired









We also don't believe in CIO though.....I'm sure that one day this will pass, until then, I will just be wondering when.
Amy


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## tug (Jun 16, 2003)

Lex:

The boys are so, so cute. I had to look after seeing you had twins and suddenly (despite the lack of sleep thing) i am thinking how adorable it must be to have two little bundles of joy. i'm sure this is exactly what you're thinking when one screams while the other nurses (ho ho







).

here's an idea for a middle of the night nursing mantra (while you're lying in the unappreciated lotus position of sow-on-her-side): the names of all the mommies posting in this thread...of course, maybe we'd do better to use the names of mommies sleeping through the night as our mantra....


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Hi mamas as i write ds is napping so I have a few minutes here. Mona Lisa sorry to hear you're sick. Rest, as you know, is what's best for what ails you but that seems downright mean to suggest doesn't it. Anyway I hope you mend soon. Drink lots of H20.

Lexbeach--twins, gee it sort of puts single nursing in a different light. Good for you for sticking it out. Can your dp nurse as well?

Last night was a pretty good night till about 4:30. You know, your basic nursing every couple of hours but back to sleep pretty quickly. Then I think ds's diaper was bothering him (still haven't figured out a good nighttime cd system that works). He was restless and couldn't seem to get comfy. Diaper change helped a bit but basically he was attached to my breast from 4:30 till 7:00. Still I feel like we had a good night.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

i think i have pms on top of exhaustion. it is so not fair to be nursing as much as i do and deal with aunt flow all the same!! i just feel deflated even though sleep has not been that bad. napping has been the shits and she is really overtired sometimes or maybe is teething again since it seems to go away...sigh. she tumbled off the bed the other morning and i ended up taking her to a walk in clinic b/c she was so damn cranky that i figured her brain must be swelling!! well, really dh took her in and the physician was very reassuring and said she is very alert and just fine. still i will get the chiropractor to check her out i guess. i suppose lots of tumbles will happen. bed is on the floor but she actually went over the guardrail in a loop de loo so i just took it off as it is obviously not keeping her safe







:
twins. you deserve an award mama. that is some love and devotion. ok, now i am going to cry thinking about how we all are hanging in there and doing what is best for our babes...in spite of everything including much "advice" of others on CIO. i am waaaaay too hormonal. maybe there is a goddess of sleep???


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by hollyhobbie_
*maybe there is a goddess of sleep???*
:LOL If there is, she must be asleep herself :LOL

I have actually wondered what sick sense of humor the creator has with all of this sometimes. We mamas need our rest to deal with everything, but yet we have babes who need us to get their rest. So out goes our rest, and our sanity. Hmmm...

Crossing my hippie fingers for a good night tonight.


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## pip (Apr 3, 2003)

Oh yes mamas, I'm with you these days (or nights). My baby used to be the perfect sleeper, and it seems that every month he gets worse. We've just hit 7 months, and I've spent the night up every 45 mins, except one 2 hour stretch. Well, not up 'cos I had him in with us, and just cuddled and rocked all night. But you know what, I just found 2 little razor sharp teeth poking through, and daddy is soooooo excited about his boy growing up and growing chompers that all that cuddling is a kinda nice memory. Now if I could just get off the computer and have a snooze.....

Good luck to us all eh!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Well ds slept pretty well last night. He woke frequently but except for one time nursed himself happily back to sleep. However his mama couldn't get back to sleep after he nursed at 4:00!!! So I lay awake listening to dh snore, listening to ds sleep and thinking here I am the one who needs sleep and I'm wide awake







Anyway this lasted till about six during which time ds nursed only once but I knew just when I fell asleep he'd wake up. Which of course, he did. So I'm feeling tired today but not 'cause of ds. I think last night was a full moon and I've noticed this pattern before with the moon so hopefully tonight the moon's ebb will allow me to sleep.


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## sparkeze (Nov 20, 2002)

I don't know if this will be comforting or scary (denpending on the age of your dc I guess) but my DS sleeps better overall the older he gets. We still have nights where he wakes up every 45 minutes but generally he started sleeping better around 11-12 mo, then even better a couple months after that, etc.

He's always woken very frequently and until he was about 8 mo forget about ever sneaking out of bed after he was asleep, but now on a normal night he sleeps 3 hour stretches when he's alone in bed (before I've gone to bed for the night) and when I'm sleeping with him he sleeps 4-5 hour stretches, which generally means he wakes up once while I'm asleep. And this came from doing nothing but responding to him whenever he woke up by nursing (of course there's always the pretending to sleep when he's not upset but has wide open eyes!) I guess I didn't create a monster!

To give you perspective he used to wake every 30-60 min all night and after nursing he wanted to be walked to sleep.
















(some fairy dust from the sleep fairy!) Good luck!


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

Hi, a little update from me. We have had Emma(now 7 months) in her crib for about a week and a half. She did great the first few nights and them began waking every 1-2 hours again for her binky. Silly me decides, I have got to break her of the binky and she'll sleep great. That was a night mare. I held out for 36 hours, but realized I'm trying to do too much at once, she needs the comfort of the binky, since I just put her in the crib, so back the binky went.

Her sleep goes
8pm to bed
11or12 up for binky
1 or 2 up for nursing
4 or 5 up for binky or nursing
7am wake up

not too bad since she falls right back asleep everytime.

I have decided though to use the crib for naps and the first half of the night and then at 1am when she wakes to eat feed her in the sidecar crib by my bed and leave her there when she is done.

I was feeding her in my sons bed in the room with the crib (he was in my bed becayse she was waking him up) and then putting her in her crib, but now he is sleeping through her crying so I have to feed her in my room.

Long story for my question, will that little time in my room, screw up her sleeping and make her confused about where she should sleep? Should I just bring her all the way back to her crib after I feed her?

Ahh, what to do?
Corrie


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

I just wanted to note the same pattern as sparkeze. DD is just about a year, and in the past week, she's been nursing before bed, coming off, then falling alseep on her own. And instead of waking 3-6 times, it's more like 2. I usually wake up a couple hurs after she falls aslepp, and think, "hey, how'd she get to sleep?" It still seems weird to me that she can fall asleep on her own. She's still in bed with us, btw.
So there is hope! When she was 9 and 10 months, if someone could have told me this wasn't going to go on for another year, I would have felt at least a bit better.
hth


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

well,, last night baby-loo insisted on putting herself to sleep. after i tried by rocking and dad paced her. she struggled to be put down then crashed on the floor so dad thought she wanted to try to put herself to sleep so took her to the bed and this is exactly what she did after only a couple of minutes!! hmm, i am sure it wont be every night but it is interesting that she is clear enuf about what she wants at only 7 months.

and, my dh kept snoring last night. i hate hate hate it when i wake him (he falls asleep very very quickly!!) to say you are snoring and he says ok then just goes back to sleep!! i shoved him again and said "have a heart, roll over". it was about 2:30 and i had nursed baby at 2. finally i got fed up and went downstairs to sleep on foam mat thing behind the couch (was there for my niece and i never bothered to put it away yet!!). at 4:30 when she woke i tried to ignore them but when it seemed obvious she was hungry i left a warmed bottle at the top of the stairs without her seeing me and went back to bed! i just wanted dh to see what it would be like if i didnt just roll over every couple of hrs and nurse her. if he was to do 50% of the nighttime feeds/comforting we all would get less sleep. i am hoping he will make more of an effort to roll over in the future! i think he might be a little tired this morning b/c he gets up at 6 to go to work. he didnt say a word just held my hand for a minute then went off to the shower.

boy, i was sound asleep when she woke at 4:30


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## wickedchick (Sep 7, 2003)

Aidan, 8 months, has never ever slept well. Once in his whole life, he slept 9 straight hours - that's the best sleep I have ever had! Other times he will sleep 5 hours - that has happened probably a dozen times. Not bad! Normally though, he wakes every 2 hours at least. zzzzzz...









On a more positive note, he has just started taking good naps. Three naps a day and one of those is usually around 1 1/2 to 2 hours. WOW what a difference that little bit of "mommy time" makes! We are so inseparable that I actually miss the little monster! lol

I have started reading "The No Cry Sleep Solution" and it seems very tedious. I just don't have the energy to do it right now. Maybe some time soon though.

Hang in there girls and count me in on the support group. I certainly need some of that right now!!!

Erin
Trevor, 9
Hunter, 5
Aidan, 8 months


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, I am just going to keep reading and rereading those posts from Pam and Abigail and Sparkeze. I need to keep my hope up. To add to their posts, a woman here on the island tells me that her ds woke up 3-4 times/night until he was 11 months old. She had to go back to work when he was a year, so she decided she would have to do CIO. Just as she was about to get the Ferber or Weissbluth book out of the library, he slept through the night. She thought it was a freak one time thing, but he kept doing it.

So, I'll set my sights on the magic age of 1 year. I won't expect anything at 10 months or for sure I'll be disappointed. DD was colicky and everyone said "it will go away when she's 3 months old". Well, the day she turned 3 months was one of her worst days ever! I was so discouraged. Turns out she really didn't get over her colic phase until she was about 4 months old.

Corrie43, I've read posts from lots of moms whose dc's spend part of the night in their crib and part in mom's bed. They seem to do just fine. If it's easier for you, I'd go for it.

Yes, I've also read the "No Cry Sleep Solution" a couple of times. While it has some nice suggestions, it really didn't explain how she got her ds to go from waking so frequently to waking just once or twice a night. Her ds was 10 months old at his worst, and I'm thinking that rather than anything she did, he just started sleeping longer as he got older. There's no way I could stay awake to figure out exactly how long dd nurses for and when she goes back to sleep.

As other moms have said, I have noticed that dd is now starting to try to put herself to sleep more. She often sucks for a bit, then pulls off and rolls over and goes to sleep. Sometimes she tries for a minute, then roots again if she doesn't quickly fall asleep. Still, it's a start. Unfortunately, she's also developing an aversion to her soother. Once in a while she'll take it, but mostly she wants the booby. What good taste my baby has!

Lastly, hollyhobbie I sympathize with you on the dh snoring thing. Sad to say, I've kicked dh out of our bed. He's upstairs now. I hope it's only for the short term. However, we don't tell too many people because it gives them fodder for their argument that the family bed is a mistake and babies should sleep on their own, etc.

long post...sorry.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

btw, i forgot to say thanxs to the moms of older babies throwing in support. i am really hoping not to go back to work until baby-loo is 2 ish so my hopes and prayers are that she sleeps better by then.

thanxs island mommy for support re snoring. he would snore whether she was there or not so i would hate for folks to use it as an argument gainst family beds!! i kinda liked sleeping on my own for a coupla hrs


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## lisamarie (Nov 19, 2001)

hey all~

things have been crazy here. my mom was in the hospital this week and we spent alot of time down there. so our routines were all thrown out. sometimes i'm so tired in the morning, i can't remember how often we were up! can you?

warmly~

lisa:bf


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your mom. Hope she is doing ok.

I totally understand about not knowing how many times I was up during the night.... My friend asks me how the night was, and I'm like, ok i think. don't look at the clock anymore. still tired tho.
:LOL


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

My clock broke months ago but it didn't make much difference either way. I still have no idea how many times ds wakes in the night and it's become irrelevant in some ways since I know he's gonna be up at least 6 times. What matters more is how I feel in the a.m.

The other day I was musing on his nightwaking and how sometimes I get just a tad irritated with it and then I started to think of it from his point of view and how he probably wasn't always hungry but instead wanting comfort, warmth, familiarity, love. And how great it must be to wake up and have that source of refuge right beside him. Anyway it put the nightwaking in a new light. Blessings of peaceful







to all you mamas.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

About clocks, here's what my LLL leader said: don't look at the clock when you wake up. It doesn't matter if you slept 3 hoyrs or 10 hours, what matters is how you feel.
I don't live by this everyday, but I try to focus less on time. That said, when dd wakes up ten times a night, I feel tired no matter what the time. So much for our good week, as posted above. Last night was a relapse. I don't know if it's teeth or a growth spurt, but she nusred all night. Literally. She was on the breast from about 11:00 till 6:30. I finally rolled over onto my back to get some real sleep, but then she woke at 7:30 for the day, when she usually sleeps till 9 or later. :-(


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Maybe it's something in the air. Last night was a doozy here too. I even had dd in the sling at one point, bouncing on the ball. We were up for hours, before she settled down to some sleep at 5 a.m.

She's just discovered how many sounds she can make if she moves her lips while talking, so I think this kept her up. Once we were nursing in the pitch dark, and I thought for sure she was asleep, then I heard a little voice "ma, ma, blah, gah, da, da, etc" Very cute, but not really at 4 a.m.

Anyway, I agree about not looking at the clock. I lose track after the 4th wake-up, and that's often before midnight!

Solsticemama, I really agree with what you said. I've had dd's playpen set up in the livingroom for almost 2 weeks now, thinking that I'd try putting dd in there to sleep at night. Everytime I go to lay her down in it I think, oh, she'd be so lonesome when she woke up and off we go to our bed together.

Ever wonder if you're becoming a bit too attached when you feel like that? I mean, other people seem to have no trouble leaving their babies in rooms by themselves with the doors closed. I don't even like to have dd wake up on her own.

Pam and Abigail, please get that baby back on track. We're all looking to you for encouragement!


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

last night was not good. i think i lost track for sure after nursing about 7 or 8 times. i am sure it is teething. i actually meant to give her some advil to see if it would help b/c i know she is teething b/c i can feel the top tooth just starting to barely come through the gum. oh well, what's one more sleepless night on top of the others. what i hate more lately is the insomnia when she does sleep!!!!! i hate that so much. i mean to have a bottle of wine around for when that happens. one small glass usually gets me to sleep but then the rest of the bottle often gets wasted. my dh cant drink the rest of it. although i think he is tempted lately when he has to get up with baby-loo at 5:30. she is waking for the day at that unpleasant hr and i dont like it one bit. she is going down pretty easy around 8 pm. not sure that is enuf sleep. her naps are usually shortish but once and a while she gets a good one in. gotta go change a poopy diaper


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

My nights also seem to be getting worse instead of better and I can't identify any reason. My dd is seven months. I don't feel any teeth. She doesn't sleep with us--I can't sleep with her. My dh would love to cosleep but whenever I try I wake up every time she moves even the slightest bit. I have tried to make her crib a warm and happy place and she likes to stretch out and roll around so much when she is sleeping. But now she doesn't want to sleep anywhere. She once exhibited signs of being a "good" sleeper--4 to 5 hours at a time and would go to sleep by herself. That has all changed!

I also have a snoring dh. I also get mad because he falls asleep so quickly and I have to know that he is already sleeping because he is already snoring! I wear earplugs. It's funny, I can't hear dh snoring (unless he is facing me) but I can hear dd make the slightest noise. Its mama radar!

Each night I pray to the goddess of sleep that this will be the night when it all turns around. It has to be one of these nights right? I'm guessing it would be better to just accept my fate and try and enjoy those quiet moments with her in the middle of the night.


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

baby-loo is definitely getting one of her top teeth. she has both bottom ones. she is miserable during the day and last night we gave her some advil before bed and she slept MUCH better. as in when i woke to nurse her at 3 am i realised i had only nursed her one other time. she also seems to be becoming more attached to me and when i leave for an hr or so she gets upset when i leave and when i re-enter. is it an age thing? i am too tired to try and read and figure out if it is. did i say we are trying to teach her some signs so she can communicate with us better? she learned bye-bye in a couple of days so we figure it is worth a try. it is supposed to be fun most of all though. i am saying my prayer to the goddess of sleep for us all tonight.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

lilirose, by dd is doing the same thing. Latching on, then pulling off and crying. Sometimes she just wants to be held, but when I try to put her down she starts to cry again. The thing I don't understand is that during the day she seems just fine, not cranky. So if it was her teeth, wouldn't they bother her during the day too? I also wonder if all this nursing doesn't cause some stomach upset. Early this morning dd was nursing, then she started coughing and vomited a bunch of milk. Then she just sort of collapsed in my arms. Poor baby.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

I just wanted to bring an update with a glimmer of hope. We've been getting dd back on track, and although some nights she doesn't want to go to sleep at 10, there have been a few whem she fell asleep after just a few minutes of nursing, shortly before 10, and a few nights she only nursed twice throughout the entire night. Last night I slept so good, I felt well-rested at 6:30, like I had just awoke from SEVERAL HOURS of DEEP SLEEP. I can't believe I am saying those words!

Island Mommy, I agree with you about the teething thing. It seems that if it's pain, it should be all day, not just when you are going to bed. However, I wouldn't rule it out, either. Sorry I can't offer you any more help than that.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Well, today I noticed that dd has cut one of her top teeth, the other will soon be through and there's another on the way!


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Horrendous nights. DD is up crying every 15 minutes or so. I can only assume it is the top teeth. The gums are red and both are coming through. Meanwhile I am walking around like a zombie with a splitting headache. DD is happily playing on the floor right now. I gave dd tylenol at around 3 a.m. last night and she slept for a bit longer at a time...maybe 45 minutes.

How's everyone else doing?


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Weird night last night. Ds has been really tossing and turning the past couple of nights. He woke a few times to nurse. At 3:00 a.m. I finally changed his dipe and nursed him back to sleep. I, however couldn't sleep. At 4:15 dh gets up. I hear the shower, he can't sleep either. Finally at 5:30 I go out to see what dh is up to. Reading the paper and eating his breakkie. I go back to bed. Still no sleep







. Ds has slept thru all of this. I lie there, tempted to give up and log on to MDC. Slowly I start to drift off at 6ish. Ds wakes and briefly nurses and then both mama and babe sleep till 7:45. When we get up papa is on round 2 of breakkie. That was our night.


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Hi All!

I typed a huge post the other day and it got lost..so I had to take some time off-arg!

Still here-still battling the nighttime war...

Have any of you considered food allergies as the culprit? I strongly suspect dd has food allergies-she is bf and I have been careful avoiding all common allergens except wheat her whole life...this week, I decided to take out wheat-it is too soon to tell, but I swear she is napping better and going to sleep better-she used to cry and cry-but the past 3 nights she has gone to sleep nursing or in sling, woken briefly at the 1/2 hr mark and then gone back to sleep for 2.5 hrs...I know this doesn't sound like much, but to me is means watching a whole movie with dh-a first in 9 months!
The rest of the night she is restless, but not wide awake like she was previously-just semi awake and moving around like she is trying to get comfy...I know her 3 top teeth are coming in too..

So anyway-I am curious to see how this wheat thing plays out and just wondered if any of your frequent wakers have food allergies too?


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Lilirose, I'm sorry, but I just laughed at your post. Last night I was exhausted, so think I also slept through alot of the nursing. DD is also getting pretty good at getting the nipple in her mouth without my help. I wake up so stiff though, from not moving all night.

Acugirl, I'll be interested to hear if cutting out the wheat helps. DD had bad colic until 4 months old, and I cut out everything, but lost so much weight and was so grumpy from living on rice cakes that I put everything back in except for milk (just a bit in my tea every day). I couldn't really tell if it helped dd, but as a diet for me, it sure worked!

My latest worry is that all this nursing at night is going to result in tooth decay for dd. I'm obsessively reading the dental forum. Ah, there's always something to worry about.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

I know that DD has food sensitivities, but I don't know about allergies. She too had mild colic at the beginning, and I cut everything out. I think she still reacts to me eating dairy, but it is really hard to tell. For my own well being, I have cut dairy out of my diet, and almost wheat as well, so it will be interesting to see the results if i can keep on the diet.

DD still wakes throughout the night, but it is better then when she was teething. she has 8 right now, and i don't see any more coming in ATM, but who knows. She won't accept the paci lately, so i don't know if she's actually hungry or what.
She definetly can not find the nipple with out help from me- i think this is bc my breasts are very small.







: So i have to pull her towards me and then we are set. I also have to pick her up to nurse sometimes, as she gets gas (i think) if we nurse laying down the whole night.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

Things are just getting worse at my house. My 7 month old dd will not nap or sleep at night. I don't think she got 30 straight minutes of sleep from 2:30 on. I am so worried. I'm so upset and she is so tired. I am a WOHM and I am sitting at my desk like a zombie. How amy I supposed to work? I am also so worried that my child care provider will lose her patience. I know how close I come to losing mine and she is my angel baby. What if she was just some baby you were being paid to watch?

I'm considering an elimination diet but have to admit I can't imagine how to eat without dairy--I am devoted to cheese. My dd has never reacted to anything--I at hot sause on everything while I was pregnant and after she was born. Can food allergies or sensitivities start this late in the game? I am going to make an appointment at the peds to rule out any kind of medical cause like an ear infection. Hopefully he will take me seriously and not just tell me it is because she has "negative sleep associations."

It is so hard to think straight when you are this tired. I was half way to work this morning when I realized that I had forgotten my breast pump. I had to get off the trolley and turn around. I was 40 minutes late to work....


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Ugh- Sorry you are having such a hard time Harper.
I would just try to give up dairy for a week and see what happens. I don't know exactly how long it takes to get out of the system, but i think after a few days there would be a change.
IS your DD teething? Sounds like she might be. I have used the homeopathic remedy chamomilla successfully for during the day to help calm her. I have also used it at the beginning of the night, but don't use it in the middle of the night as they are pellets and unless she is fully awake i won't give them to her.
Anyway, you might want to try that out.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

Thanks for the support. I see no evidence of teeth but I can't rule it out. I have heard that they can teeth for quite some time before you see a tooth. I tried some tylenol in the middle of the night last night but it didn't seem to help.

Ok. Starting right now I am off the cow. No more dairy. Wish me luck.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

My gosh Harper, I can't imagine how I'd manage if I was a WOHM. I'm at WAHM, but I only work part-time at that so when I'm really tired, I just don't work. No such luxury for you.

Try not to worry. For sure, take your dd to the ped to see if there is anything amiss. We had a couple of bad nights here where dd was waking every 15 minutes crying. Then, poof, her top 2 teeth came through. The last few nights have been better (well, relatively anyway).

The dentist that moderates the Dental forum says that Baby Motrin is better for soothing teething pain than tylenol.

Forget the negative sleep association thing. If there wasn't something bugging your dd, she'd be able to sleep for at least an hour at a time. That is the regular sleep cycle. When babes start waking more frequently than that, I'm sure something is causing them grief.


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

lilirose- go figure, eh? i am still night nursing (obviously or i wouldn't be addicted to this thread







) and i started last month. i will be curious to see if af returns regularly...








s


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

bah, humbug, i have been nursing constantly since baby-loo was born and aunt flow came to visit when i was i think 3-4 months post partum. a friend who pumps 2X per day still doesnt have hers back. the only explanation i have seen is if you have enuf body fat to support another pg then you can get it back but that said i have another friend who weighs more than me and she doesnt have hers back either!!!! sigh.

loo is sick and not sleeping great ofcourse but she was sleeping better just before she got sick or as she got sick. maybe that is why. she is not sleeping completely horrifically but maybe it is b/c the dr at the walk in said to give her dimetapp to decongest her so she could nurse. she had stopped nursing so i was panicked a bit. before that i was not too worried b/c she was eating playing and pooping etc. she is like a newborn. wanting to be held constantly and wanting to sleep on ya. makes me realise how far we have come from the days when it seemed like i couldnt go to the bathroom or eat b/c she was on me. i mean i could do those things with her in the sling but not otherwise









i hope someone is sleeping better than us. it was nice to have a real quiet sleepy day. we dont get many of those anymore either.

i dunno how moms do it who have to work. i made dh come home from work yesterday afternoon b/c i was exhausted and mothered out. i feel spoiled but i like to be able to call for help when i am at my wits end. i started looking for daycare for when i go back/find another job next year. the first place i looked seemed pretty good so that helps me rest a little easier. she is now on the waitlist for 2 daycares for sept 2004!!

gotta get me something to drink and maybe a piece of pumpkin pie. i eat way to much crap when exhausted. how bout the rest of you? chocolate covered ju-jube anyone??


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Maybe you're right with your theory Hollyhobbie. I got my AF back at 13 weeks postpartum (boy, was I ticked), then I went on that elimination diet and lost a ton of weight and haven't seen my AF since.

Newsworthy event here. Took dd to the doc today to discuss her third stool sample that has tested positive for reducing substances. Doc says it doesn't make sense, as dd is thriving and usually this test result indicates a malabsorption of nutrients. DD is over 19 lbs at 8 months so she must be absorbing something! Anyway, we're off to see a ped at the beginning of October.

Wouldn't it be something if there was a medical reason for all this nightwaking? Actually, cancel that thought. I don't want there to be anything wrong with dd.

DD is still sleeping poorly. Is anyone's sleep improving?


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## wickedchick (Sep 7, 2003)

DS was up 5 times last night and 7 times the night before, so I guess we're getting better. However, he didn't go to bed until 11:00 and woke up at 5:30!! I think I'd rather have the early to bed, late to rise schedule back.


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## seraph (Sep 11, 2002)

I'm glad I'm not the only one! Here is our current schedule:

11pm: bedtime (and here's where I stay up till midnight to read, because it's my only reading time!)
4am: wake to nurse. If I'm unlucky, it's playtime, but most of the time it's nursing back to sleep.
4:15: wake to nurse. Repeat ad nauseum, switching sizes, every 15 minutes until 7am.
7am: sleep peacefully till 8:30 am
8:30 am: up and at em!

She also takes 4-5 one hour naps at intervals during the day. She nurses to sleep or is rocked to sleep - I think the only time in her life she has ever gone to sleep on her own is in the car. She sleeps with me on my chest until 4am, and then next to me until we get up. God, I'm tired just looking at this schedule, no wonder my left eye is twitching. I sometimes nap with her during the day, but it often makes me more groggy than anything.
It'll change someday, right? I'd be happy at this point to have 2 two hour naps instead of 4 - 5 one hour naps. *sigh*


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Hi Guys!
Well, now I am wheat free, dairy free, soy free, nut free etc...and dd is STILL waking all the time.

I think she has no clue how to go back to sleep with out me-how could she? How will she learn this if I always help her? How do I NOT help her if she just starts screaming and is then wide awake if I don't nurse her immediately when she wakes in the night?

She is napping a HUGE nap in the afternoon-1 hr in the bed and then an hr and 1/2 in the sling...from about 1-3 or 4...bedtime around 7 or 8, wake 1/2 hr later, nurse back to sleep...wake 2-3 hrs later, 2 hrs all night until 3 and then I loose track! She is completely restless all night long tossing and turning.

Woe is me!

I wish I had an answer! I also wish I didn't have a perfect little nursery to look at every day-it just makes me madder!


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## lilirose (Feb 19, 2003)

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

lilirose, i just wanted to say that at about 7.5 months (in the last couple of weeks) baby-loo has made it clear that she wants to put herself to sleep on our bed. she wont be held or rocked and puts her head down on the carpet so we take her into the bedroom and she flops around a bit until she goes to sleep. now, we did not teach her this at all. she decided it was what she wanted to do. i was a bit shocked b/c i thought it would take a very long time as we were not doing anything to encourage it exactly. we thought we would maybe move her onto her own mattress on the floor when she was 2 or 3 ish. and hope that she would start to learn then to put herself to sleep i guess. i mean i didnt think it through that much.

so sometimes at night she crashes around a bit and puts her head on me and goes right back to sleep but other times she cries and needs to nurse which i do not hesitate to do.

i just read this small book from the library called "in search of sleep" subtitled um something like "truth about babies, toddlers and nightwaking" it was one of the most reassuring things i have read on sleep and i didnt expect it to be. it talked alot about temperament of babies and reassured me once again it is nothing i am doing but just the way she (and all of our babies) are. they did a big survey and found lots of babies didnt sleep through. also pointed out the data about babies sleeping is based on formula fed crib sleeping babies and so our "norms" are not normal for co-sleeping extended bf'ing babies.

loo is still sick and so am i but sleep is no worse than usual....go figure. guess it shows that maybe it is just the way she sleeps come hell or high water. i am just thankful she is waking every couple of hrs and not every hr right now.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Oh wow, things are going nuts here. I'm hoping it is due to the 4 teeth DD is cutting right now and it will soon even out. Last night DD fell asleep in the sling at 8, woke when I tried to put her down, nursed, but didn't fall back asleep. We got up and dh played with her until 9:30, then he put her in the sling. She fell asleep, but woke when he put her down and again, didn't nurse to sleep. She started screaming and honestly, I just lied in the bed and looked at her. She was rolling around and trying to crawl and just screaming. Nursing didn't help and neither did holding her. I finally got up at 10:15, gave her some tylenol, then put her back in the sling with her soother and bounced her to sleep on the exercise ball. She was asleep by 10:30, nursed I don't know how many times during the night, was up at 7:15 this morning and has so far had one 15 min nap. It's 11:30 a.m.

However, she's been reasonably happy so far today, so I guess that's a blessing. We took her down to our friend's boat the other night and she cried whenever someone laughed or clapped or made any loud noise. We had to leave because she was just so unhappy. We brought her home and she was happy as could be for another hour and a half before she fell asleep. Go figure.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

island mommy, my friends baby was doing that too when she came to visit. same age baby. i think it is the seperation anxiety thing looking a little different. baby-loo has full blown sep anx since being sick and it is making me a little crazy. now the not sleeping doesnt seem as bad as the never letting me go (again) in the day. she wants up all the time then she wants down then i put her down and she screams and cries. sigh. it is so hard b/c she is 20 lbs and hard to carry at all times. maybe it will improve quickly. she eat a bunch of finger food today so maybe she will sleep better tonight with a fuller tummy. please let me sleep tonight if i have to face a difficult day tomorrow.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

I'm throwing in the towel, waving the white flag. I GIVE UP! I cannot do this anymore. I can't be positive any longer. Something has to change and if she has to cry for hours, so be it.

Boy, it feels good to write something like that and be so sure you can let them cry when it's sunny and bright outside. In the deep, dark depths of the night everything changes.

But seriously, last night dd nursed almost constantly from 7:45 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. I couldn't fall asleep and was getting so mad at her. Every time I tried to take my nipple away she would wake and screech, fuss, flop around, then cry. Finally at 1:00 a.m. I took her to my dh and said I couldn't take it any longer. I left her crying, went back to the bedroom, put in my earplugs and went to sleep. I was crying and frazzled.

I so want to sleep with my dh again. I so want to sleep for more than 45 minutes at a stretch. I want dd to be able to sleep restfully with both her parents, just like Dr Sears and Dr Gordon says (boy, I'm ready to strangle those guys!)

Honestly, I think dh and I have to come up with a plan. He says he will take her at night, but he will not walk/bounce etc. He will lay beside her and hold her, but that's all. So far I've resisted because I didn't want her to cry, but I think that I'm going to have to let him do it. Maybe we'll try it for a week and see if her sleep improves at all. She will scream







and if it doesn't work I'll feel horrible, but I don't know what else to do.

I'm going to the drugstore to pick up a prescription for Zoloft today. I hate being on these antidepressants and have been trying to stay off them, but I have to work and I'm getting no sleep and I just can't do it anymore.

I really don't think this is what it's supposed to be like with a baby. I often wonder if things would be different if I'd let her cry a bit as an infant, put her in a crib and not nursed her at night past about 4 months old. Oh well, I guess I'll never know.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

Dear Island Mommy,

I'm sorry it is so hard. It is impossible to function and behave rationally if you have no sleep! You are obviously doing the best that you can (and more than I can even imagine!) and you need a rest. I can't believe that you lasted from 7:45 until 1 am. I couldn't go that long and would have given her to dh long before. You have already demonstrated so much patience.

Let your husband try your plan if he can handle the crying. As Dr. Sears said, crying in the arms of a loving parent is not the same as crying it out. You haven't done anything wrong! You could have put her in a crib and let her cry and she could still be waking frequently. You are a good and loving mama and your dd knows it as you try and show her every day and night. Even if your plan only lasts a night or two, if you get some sleep you will be feeling so much better!

It is so frustrating that nobody has the answers. No one can say: oh well dd is crying because X and if you only do X she will sleep and be a happy baby. My dd has been a sleeping nightmare for almost three weeks now and I am exhausted not only from not sleeping but also from worrying. She isn't her wonderful little self because she is so tired. I am trying to do everything I can to make sleep possible but nothing seems to be good enough. I feel like I missed out on her entire seventh month and she will never be seven months old again.

Sorry. I was trying to be supportive and then started to make it about me. You are doing wonderfully. You are an amazing mama. Your dd will be fine. Let her cry a little bit and you get some rest. This too shall pass--I don't when but it will. Cuddle your dd lots during the day and she will know that she is loved.

Good luck.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

s Island mommy (and others)
I know it may not feel like it, but I am confident that you choice to co-sleep and breast feed your dd is the best thing out there- she will thank you for it later.







It doesn't seem fair- to be "rewarded " for such selfless acts with utter exhaution and insanity. It does make you wonder, I know. But I have to believe that what i am doing WILL make a difference for her.

I'm sure you have answered this, but is your DD teething? It really sounds like she might be from your description. OR maybe having tummy issues?

My dd has suddenly learned to crawl more efficiently and climb up on stuff, over stuff, ect all in a matter of days. She no longer wants to nap, but is so exhausted. She has this whine... E E E... that drives me bonkers. At night she is "ok" until about 1:30, and then nurses every hour. And wakes up early to boot. I try not to complain. But combined with the insane day time turn of events, i find myself more short tempered and in a sour mood. I am trying to take lots of deep breaths and ground myself.

IT WILL GET BETTER!!!!!!


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Gosh, it is incredible how similar our babes are! Island Mama, I so feel your pain!

Last night dd nursed to sleep at 7:30. I put her in her pack and play where she sleeps sometimes-I can't leave her on the bed-she just crawls off-even though it is on the floor-it is still a bit high.

A 1/2 hr later, she woke up standing up and crying. I went and held her and she fell back to sleep right away. I put her back down. 2 min later, she is standing up and WIDE awake. I took her down to dh. She is SO excited she is shreiking. They play for a bit, he puts her in the sling and she goes to sleep. He lies her in our papason chair (big round chair) and she sleeps for 1/2 hr, wakes up crying. By now it is after 9. She had been up since 3. I decided to try again-take her up, lie down in our bed and nurse. She nurses for a minute, and then is FRANTICLY crawling all around standing up, etc. SO, back down to dh-it is now 11! I went to bed and he brought her up at 2. She nursed, when back to sleep, nursed at 4, 6 and up for day at 8. Whew!

Island Mama, I agree about sears and gordon! While I love them, sometimes I have to say, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON! Whose babies actually act like they say??!!

I am wheat, dairy, nut, shellfish etc free and dd hardly eats anything but bm...still these probs! She is teething, but I give her hylands, tylenol ect.

Anyway, I hope your plan with dh works! lately dd will go to sleep much better for dh, but still wakes just as much anyway.

It is SO frustrating!

We are here for you!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

I just have to say that I am jealous that your dc can go to your dh's. DD cries uncontrollably if she wakes up and i am not there. She cries uncontrollably if i am not there when she is ready to go to bed at night.
Oh well, I guess that's just the way it is right now.







:


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Oh, I must have forgotten to mention that dd cries uncontrollably with dh. Only in the night though. During the day she's great, and dh can get her to sleep in the buggy and the sling. It's when she wakes up during the night...dh won't sling her then. He refuses. I see his point too. For how long do we jump through all these hoops to have her sleep? He wants her to learn to fall asleep beside him or me. He won't leave her alone, though.

Anyway, last night I gave dd to dh at 3:30. Put in the earplugs and went to sleep. Woke at 5:30 to hear her screaming, took her and nursed to sleep (didn't take long!!), then she nursed a couple more times before getting up at 7:30. Luckily dh stays home, so he is still sleeping now and I have a yoga class at 10 a.m. to look forward to.

DD woke happy and seems no worse for her crying spell with dh during the night. I have a choir practice tonight and know he will try to get her to sleep by laying down with her and singing. She will cry. But, as Harper says, a babe crying in her dad's arms is not the same as being left to cry alone. I hope.

Some other stuff I've been thinking about. While AP is about meeting a child's needs, I do think that at some point a parent has to differentiate needs from wants. For example, if your babe hates to have her teeth brushed and screams the whole time, that doesn't mean you stop brushing her teeth. You, as the parent, know it is important and therefore continue. So, perhaps my family is getting to the stage where dd's "want" to nurse all night is affecting all of us to such an extent that we'll have to, as gently as possible, let her know that it's not OK anymore. Again, such logic at 8 in the morning. Talk to me again when she's screaming blue murder at 3 a.m.

That's the other thing. People talk about their babies "fussing". My dd rarely fusses. She screams, sobs and cries. It sounds like we're killing her. However, it's amazing how fast she can stop when she gets what she wants!


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Mona, don't be jealous-dd just this week started letting dh get her to sleep and sometimes she does scream-I give them 15 min and lately she will be asleep after 5...but up until recently, she would scream bloody murder until I came to get her.

Island Mama, I know what you mean about screaming all out and not fussing...dd is on or off, no inbetween. and she does stop crying right away when she gets what she wants-if we can figure it out!

I was just talking to dh and he says he doesn't mind her being up late if she is happy-so I guess it is ok for now...in my mind though she should be in bed asleep at a reasonable hr! But in reality, it doesn't seem to affect her mood, her development so what does it matter for now?

Anyway, another night is here! good sleep vibes to you all!


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

sorry you are struggling island mommy. not much sleep here last night. lost count after the sixth nursing!! sigh. i was so enjoying getting a little more sleep as in 2-3 hrs instead of 1!! i am very teary today and fighting with dh. more another time.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

s


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

I guess my problem is that I'm such a B**ch during the day because I get no unbroken sleep. I am finding myself yelling at my husband and toddler, and getting frustrated with everything. I am allready on antidepressants, but they aren't helping much.

I have two kids co-sleeping with me and my DH works nights, so he's of no help. I start both kids out in their room at around 8pm.
Emma, 7mos, wakes up at 9:30, 11pm, 1am, 3am and 5am almost like clockwork
Max, 3, wakes up around midnight to come in with me. Lately at 3am he's been waking up jumping out of bed insisting on going to the living room to watch TV and then screaming when I won't let him, which wakes the baby and I just want to scream.

They both are up by 6am usually

I am at my wits end over here. I just want to run away some nights.
At least I can come here and vent. My husband doesn't sympathise because I have it "so easy" as a SAHM... GRRRRRR
Corrie


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm trying not to get my hopes up but I have had two good nights in a row! Harper has gone to bed at 8:00 and on Wednesday night she got up at 1:00 and 5:00!! Last night she got up at 10:00, 2:00 and 5:00. She is having a really hard time going back to sleep at 5:00 and I have nursed and dh has rocked and she will sleep in 30 minute spurts until 7:30. This is a VAST improvement. The unfortunate part is that I am still really tired because I have a cold--change of seasons, lack of sleep--it was destined to happen. I just keep thinking about how worse I would feel if I wasn't getting any sleep. I know that tonight could be terrible, but at least I have had a couple of good nights.

My husband, nanny and I are trying hard to follow the no-cry sleep solution and I don't know if it has helped but we do try and put her down slightly awake and give her verbal cues. I also gave her a small stuffed bunny for her to sleep with. Maybe it's helping....


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by corrie43_
*My husband doesn't sympathise because I have it "so easy" as a SAHM... GRRRRRR
Corrie*











































uke

yeah, we sit around and eat bon bons all day. it's so easy!








s

Harper- yeah!!! sounds good. hopefully it will continue.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

Just wanted to chime in with some more hope, especially for Island Mommy. Last night dd woke up just once. She slept from 11 pm till 6 am. Also, in the last week, it's only been taking about 5-15 minutes to put her to sleep.
It's hard to believe this is the same baby who just weeks ago was waking up so much and taking hours to get to sleep.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Pam_and_Abigail

Do you think the better sleeping coincided with the cessation of teething? DD's top two teeth are in but I think the 2 on each side are now coming through. I understand they take a bit of a break after these first 6 teeth are through.

We had another bad night last night. I've been feeling so frustrated that I've actually felt like hitting DD. I feel just horrible when I get that feeling and that's when I immediately take DD to DH. I wouldn't ever hit her, but even to feel that emotion towards a babe I love so much is frightening.

She cried with DH for over an hour before I took her again. DH thinks that it's a waste of time to give her to him if I'm not going to let her cry until she falls asleep, but I wish he'd just see it as a break for me. Once I've calmed down a bit, I'm ready to take her back and nurse her to sleep again.

I just wish she'd fall back to sleep easier during the night. We nurse for 1/2 hour - 45 min sometimes, then when I try to extract my nipple she starts to cry. Or, she'll fall asleep, I'll gently edge away, get comfortable, close my eyes, and she'll be awake crying again. This goes on for hours sometimes.

We had a ped appt today. He said he thinks dd probably has difficulty digesting lactose based on some tests we've had done. He said that if I was feeding formula he would suggest switching to soy-based, but as I am BFing he says to just keep going. He never advises a woman to stop BFing unless the babe is definitely failing to thrive. Nice ped, huh! I think that perhaps all the nursing I'm doing at night is actually exacerbating the problem. Maybe for the next few nights I'll try other methods to soothe dd. I don't think she'll be too happy though.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Island mommy-
I understand your frustration. Do not beat yourself up over the intense emotions that well up inside of you. You are doing the right thing by taking a break when you feel this intensity.

Do you consume dairy? I can't remember through all these posts if you have altered your diet.
Do you nurse lying down? Can you sleep while she is nursing?

Teeth- DD has had 8 since she was about 8mo old. The teeth have finally seemed to stop since then, but she was teething on and off from 3mo old to 8 mo old. ugh.
sleep has improved since then, but she still wakes ? many times throughout the night ( i don't keep track so as to not depress myself...)

Anyway, hang in there.







s to you....


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## LailaCA (Jan 4, 2003)

My ds will be 15 months old on Monday and he still wakes every 1-2 hours. I get absolutely no help at home. My dh tells me it is my fault for the whole cosleeping thing and not cio or using the crib. Therefore...I made a choice....here is my consequence and he does not see why he should have to pay for my mistakes. Maybe when I have learned my lesson then ds will sleep through the night and so will i.

You would think I am 17 years old and not a 37 year old former special ed teacher with an MA in Special Ed.

I am so sleep deprived it is ridiculous. I have no help from any family member or friend. All think that I am loony for my: AP philosophy, selective vaxing, and using organics. They all agree with dh that I get what I deserve. I too wish I could sleep at least five hours straight. Wish I knew what to do.


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

Islnad Mommy:
As far as teeth, dd just got number 7 this week, in fact it came without us knowing. Although when I think back, the night she slept 7 hours in a row was after we gave her some tylenol for what we preceived as teething pain.
Don't know if that helps. There was a bit of a gap of time between the 6th and 7th teeth, I think. 4,5 and 6 all came within a week or so of each other.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

I had cheese two days in a row, and last night DD woke every hour.







I've been nursing her back to sleep while on my side so i don't have to actually pick her up, so at least i didn't have to move too much, but i still had to nurse her for her to get back to sleep.







:
No more diary for me.









LailaCA-
Just wanted to say that I'm sorry your DH/family are not supportive of you. That made me







to hear that you have to deal with that
















s to all of you....


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## LaurenS (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm so glad I found this thread. I have been so depressed lately due to lack of sleep and Mez being cranky all day long. I would say he wakes 6 or 7 times during the night and I have to side nurse or else I wouldn't get any sleep at all (he pretty much stays latched on all night long). My back and neck hurt so badly, I can hardly pick him up without crying. He is 6 months old today. The two bottom teeth starting coming in a couple of weeks ago but are not fully in. I also suspect that there are more teeth coming in as he is really biting on his thumb which he never did before. My husband is home and he is willing to give me breaks, but Mez just wants to be with me. The worst is when my parents tell me that it's my choice to be "this kind of parent". I was a formula baby from day 1. Solids were shoved down my throat after a few days because I wasn't sleeping through the night. And I was left alone in a crib to cry myself to sleep. Just to give you an idea of who I'm up against. Breast feeding is still so difficult for me. On most days, it still takes almost 15 to 20 minutes of Mez sucking and screaming for the milk to let down. This also can happen at night. Oh I can go on and on. I guess I just really need to be a part of this group for now. I need the support of others who know this is the best way. My husband is really the only person I feel like I can talk to about how I feel because out of all the people who I know well, he is the only person who feels strongly about AP. But because I am so cranky, we just end up fighting. He doesn't think it's so bad. You all know that it is very bad. I want to enjoy being a parent. But most days I can't say that I do.

Lauren


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

hey laurenS!! wish we were all meeting under better circumstances but welcome all the same! and LailaCA too!!

yeesh, baby-loo nursed 10 or 11 times last night in the time she was in bed!! waaaay too much for my liking. at 11:30 when she asked for the third time i rocked her a bit and gave her to dh. she falls back asleep but it only lasts for like 15 minutes or so then she wakes and i have to nurse her or there will be no sleep. sigh. i wish i could do something else to put her to sleep again. i am so very tired but dh lets me sleep in on the weekend and i live for that!!!

cheese huh? i had pizza and a chai latte yesterday which i dont usually do but they day before it was beans and oatmeal and whatnot with no dairy and she didnt sleep then either. i think it is more likely to be teeth. i keep saying i will give her motrin then i dont cause she falls asleep etc and it is such a struggle to get it in her. have been thinking about the NCSS again but then you have to really clock watch and that makes me crazy.

i hear you moms that are saying other folks just say you are getting what you deserve for APing. i lost a friend over this already. we fought b/c she gave me that line. i work hard finding supportive moms and i have this thread. for reassurances i highly recommend reading Sears book about raising a successful child i have it outa the library and it gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me feel the hell is worth it. (if only for a moment). cheers mommas. lets gather in our minds for a glass of wine and toast ourselves for our rock solid commitment to our babies well-being. island mommy, i hope you are ok. let us know how you are doing.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Hollyhobbie, that's a lovely post. Welcome to LaurenS and LailaCA. Sometimes I think I depend too much on this website and this thread in particular, but it does pick me up and give me a laugh at times.

Last night not so good. Tried not to nurse dd so often, but that means I'm up bouncing on the ball, rocking, etc. She'd fall back asleep but she wouldn't stay asleep for long. I tried camomile tea in a bottle. She took it once but not the next time.

I'm seriously thinking of trying soy formula in a bottle just before bed. I don't want to stop BFing but if it makes her uncomfortable, who am I doing it for? Her or me?

I'm also dairy free again as of today. Not even a splash of milk in my tea. If she is lactose intolerant, apparently the dairy I eat can increase the amount of lactose in my breastmilk.

I got another 2 hour sleep this morning. I am SO lucky that DH is home and takes DD in the a.m. I just wish he'd help a bit at night, but like LaurenS, he thinks I should just stop BFing at night and let DD learn to live with it.

Wishing good sleeps for all of us. I bought Advil (same active ingredient as Motrin) for DD, tried it the night before last but it didn't seem to help much.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

hey island mommy, glad to hear you are still hanging in there even if you are tired and frazzled. i just wanted to post and tell you something i have never admitted here before...i give baby-loo some hypoallergenic formula sometimes in an effort to try and help her sleep a bit longer. i think it works when she isnt teething like mad. i really fought with myself about it b/c i was so anti-formula and totally into bfding but i was at the end of my rope like you. loo was feeding atleast every hr or two round the clock. i try to get solids in her but often she is not much interested. i had a conversation with my chiropractor who is very crunchy and he said yes, give her formula and i was shocked. so i also talked to the public health nurse and she said the recommendations are for just bfding for 6 mos then introduce solids (or a bit of formula). i said i felt like a woman from a couple of decades ago who complained that she didnt have enuf milk so she had to give formula. i kept thinking what the hell is wrong with me that i cant produce enuf milk to keep her full. well she is a very active baby and has been crawling since about 5.5 months etc etc. so the way i made peace with it was saying to myself it was like a milkshake or protein drink when i couldnt get enuf solids in her. i know there are folks who would disagree with this approach.

i felt a huge relief when i did it mostly b/c dh can give her a bottle and i dont have to worry about pumping. everyone kept telling me to pump but uh, when could i do it when i couldnt get her off the nipple?? and was exhausted ta boot??? the other huge relief was when i offered it to her in a playtex nurser bottle, i didnt even finish squeezing the air outa it when she grabbed it and drank the entire 4 ounces! i thought she might not as the stuff (alimentum) smells really nasty!! she loves it and mostly drinks it all unless she is not hungry. often she takes a top up nursing and then is off to bed. but sometimes she falls asleep when dh gives it to her. that is so nice.

so pm me if you wanna chat more about this guilt inducing topic. i just felt i should come clean in case my experience can help someone else. it is not THE answer but when i was most desperate it gave me a little hope.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

whoa, did i stop the thread in its tracks b/c i said the f-word?? or is everyone too tired to get online?

loo's tooth on the right side came through yesterday so i guess that explains some things. she wants attention now so i better run. she slept sorta ok last night but i had hellish insomnia and could not fall asleep!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

hollyhobbie- no worries on the "f" word.









DD is doing "ok", but i am almost positive she is teething again. She is chewing more fiercely and is showing all the other signs. She is going to have all her teeth before she is 1 at this rate.







:

I continue to find that it is easiest for both of us if i just roll over and nurse lying down. she will pop off, or i can pop her off, after she goes back to sleep. i know she is really hungry if she wakes right after i pop her off, and i let her eat more, during which i usually fall back to sleep myself. my breasts are REALLY small, so i have to have her right up next to me for it to work, so that can be frustrating sometimes.

She is napping now, hopefully will get a good one in so i can get some things done.

Hope everyone else is still sane and doing ok.


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## LaurenS (Aug 7, 2003)

Last night was better than the night before. Mez still woe up about 7 or 8 times, but for some reason I did better today. Yesterday, I was so tired and he was so cranky. There was a point where I was feeling so insane and angry at him that I just told my husband, I just can't watch him right now. You have to. I have to sleep or I will go insane. So my husband calmly stopped working and took Mez for a walk in the Ergo carrier. I got to sleep, and so did Mez as he almost always falls asleep when he goes for a walk with my husband (but for some reason doesn't fall asleep for me when we are walking). Mona I know what you mean about side nursing. I too have REALLY small breasts and so I think that is why my neck and back hurt so much because I have to be in such an uncomfortable position in order for Mez to latch on. And he really doesn't want to sleep if he is not latched on. I've heard a lot of women complain about how they wish their breasts were smaller because nursing was so difficult for them. Ah, we always want what we don't have. Or at least I do.
I have to go I hear a crying baby.

Lauren


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## Sleepymama (Oct 9, 2003)

Hi I'm new here but count me in on this thread! I have a 9.5 month old son whom we call "captain chaos" during the day and it is no different at night...he is very high needs (also has a heart defect) and wakes a good 8-10 times a night. On a good night he'll sleep the first 3 hours and then wake every hour though. Whoopie!

He has always been this way. We co-sleep because he won't sleep anywhere but either on one of us or right next to me. I bf but have always needed to supplement because of our early separation (long story, low milk supply) and he needs to be either BFed or carried around all night long.

It's driving me crazy!! We've been trying the no cry sleep solution but he has been sick a lot since starting daycare about 6 weeks ago (he's there 2-3 days a week while I work) and he doesn't buy the "pull off" method, the key words, the patting to comfort, etc.

His dad takes him a lot (wonderful man) but always ends up sleeping in the chair with him because he won't sleep next to him. I also have PPD and the sleep deprivation is really making my life hell. I've been starting to have intrusive thoughts again recently when I thought I was over that...I know not sleeping is making it worse.

I knew having a baby would be hard but not THIS hard!!!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

Haven't been here in awhile but after last night I thought...gotta get some support. Ds fell asleep early last night--7:00 p.m--after a day of one nap of 20 mins







Not a wonderful day. Between 7 and 10, when I came to bed he'd already nursed 4 times. I got into bed thinking, man I've got a night of work ahead of me. Work. Sadly that's how it feels these nights. He slept 3 hours then woke regularly till 6:00 at which point he was ready to roll. I, on the other hand was not. I put him in the co-sleeper for as long as he would tolerate (10 minutes) while I just lay there thinking, co-sleeping and night nursing are just not cutting it lately. I'm tired, irritable and have come to view some nights with less than enthusiasm. Plus ds likes to sleep snuggled right up against me. When he wakes he sometimes rolls back and forth trying to get comfy, little limbs flailing. I try to rock him, cuddle him etc when he wakes but nothing puts him back to sleep like nursing tho the pacifier also works occasionally. He's had major gas the past few nights. Reading the other posts I'm thinking I should start cutting things out of my diet left, right and center. He's napping right now







Hope everyone has a better night tonight tho the full moon is coming up and I've noticed a tendency to sleep poorly a day or two before that.

The thing is, reading over this post I keep thinking, so, what are ya gonna do? Put him in a crib? Stop nursing? No way. I guess love our time together in bed and at the same time it's really wearing on me. Is it possible that 2 such completely different indwelling responses are part of the mystery of mothering? Each time I roll over and nourish my baby, my body is taking shape around a long, long lineage of ancestors. It's easy to wax poetic in the light of day. 2:00 am is another story tho. I guess in my depth I feel that what I'm doing for ds by co-sleeping and nursing on demand is really beneficial to him in intangible ways. Gotta go ds just woke up.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Here I am. Had a big work deadline for today so haven't been able to post. I'm a WAHM.

I've been thinking along the lines of solsticemama. I have a love/hate relationship with nursing at night. I so want to sleep more at night, yet when I contemplate nightweaning or something like that, I get all nostalgic. Of course we all know what we'd like...a couple of nursings a night with babe gently falling back to sleep after nursing for 10 minutes or so. Not this constant every hour thing with babe kicking and punching and pinching and trying to crawl and point in the air and clap and having to rub your breast in a certain place or practice her pincer grip on a tiny piece of skin from your neck!

I've thought about giving letting dh give dd some formula, but then I think "what would it get me? An extra 1/2 hour or hour of sleep at the most." That's the longest she ever sleeps, except for her first sleep which sometimes lasts 2 hours.

I've also thought of seeing if she'll sleep longer alone, but the one time I did it I just lay awake in the other room until she woke up. I hate leaving her alone to sleep. I think she'll be scared waking up by herself. Am I ridiculous or what!

I don't nurse dd every time she wakes. Last night I was so tired of nursing I just picked her up and held her at some point. She cried and fussed for the breast for about 3 minutes, then calmed down and went to sleep. Course she cried when I tried to put her down, then I got her back to sleep, then she lay on my chest for awhile, then I put her down, then I got comfortable and was just falling asleep when she woke up again.

I wonder if there's any point to not nursing. Will I just replace the need to nurse with a need to be picked up and held? Is the only option to lay beside her and let her cry?

All I know is that hearing her cry breaks my heart and hurts my ears and I can't do it for long.


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## Sleepymama (Oct 9, 2003)

Well that's our situation--he is mostly FFed now but loves to nurse. He actually prefers to be carried around at night though. He'll accept nursing in place of being held.

What we need to do is change all these sleep associations, but I'm not sure how (without lots of crying!)


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

Hi All!
Still here! We've had a few marginally better nights...
I have found that when dd wakes and won't go back to sleep (she starts crawling all over and won't settle), I have been wrapping her legs in a crib sheet and she will go back to sleep then...it has worked 2 nights in a row..I think she just gets so excited by her ability to move that she can't settle. When I wrap up her legs, she can't move, realizes she is sleepy and goes back to sleep-let's see if it keeps up...she still wakes every couple of hrs, but at least she hasn't been up for hrs in the middle of the night. I shouldn't even say that-probably just jinxed myself!

We are going out of town to visit my family for the long weekend tomorrow, so I am running all around with dd asleep in the sling trying to get ready. Hopefully she will be so tired out while we are gone that she will sleep!

Happy sleeping to you all!


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

How's everyone doing?

No one's posted in awhile. Is that cause everyone's sleeping so well there's no more need for this thread?

Linda


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

hahahahahah
very funny!
I've been lurking on your other thread.....

DD is waking as usual- every hour or hour and a half. sometimes more.







: i have been avoiding this, but i am going to TOTALLY cut out dairy AGAIN to see what happens. and sugar too, for that matter.

I try not to look at the clock, and just focus on getting back to sleep asap. it does help, i think. i somehow manage to go about my day, and make it all work. this morning was a bit rough tho- she woke at 5:30 am. ugh.

how are you doing?








s to all


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## LaurenS (Aug 7, 2003)

I am in the other room while my husband is holding a screaming baby. I have been trying to get him to sleep for the past three hours. No luck. I am tired, frustrated and at the end of my rope. Remind me again why we do this? Because I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Lauren


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

hey lauren, hang in there!! when my baby gets like that i just hang out and nurse watchin tv or just let her play on the floor and i watch tv. that is my total give up plan cause i dont watch much tv and barely ever when she is around so it is not like something we do very often. she just plays until she drops even though it is dark cept for the tv. or dad paces her to sleep. i am lucky though she generally goes to sleep better now though it was tough for quite a while.

baby-loo has been sleepin better since her tooth came through. this means she nurses the amount i could probably count on one hand if i was counting....what a relief. i love waking up in the morning not feeling completely dead. visited my sister too for thanksgiving and got a much needed break for a couple of hrs. she tried to sleep with loo but she freaked but she got in a hr or two before she woke. my dh and i went out alone together for dinner for the first time since she was born. that was stupendous. gotta find someone who can watch the precious one for an hr or two. it was so refreshing to get that kind of break.

wish you all sweet dreams and if not then atleast gooood coffee in the a.m.!!!


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

LaurenS were things any better last night?

I thought last night was going to be good. Took dd for a walk in her sling after her bath and she fell asleep immediately. Woke when I put her down but easily nursed back to sleep and was down for the night by 7:30 p.m.

I crawled into bed at 8:30 p.m. and was asleep by 9:30. There were various wakings to nurse but I fell back asleep OK, until 3:15 when dd decided NOT to nurse back to sleep. So we got up and bounced and nursed and bounced and walked....until she finally went to sleep at 4:45!!! She didn't cry unless I put her down or I tried to lie down so it was not chaos, but really.

Here's hoping for a better night tonight...says the eternal optimist.

Oh yah, off dairy COMPLETELY...for 2 weeks. If no sign of improvement I'll be heading for the chocolate. You know the worst thing for me is no milk in my tea. Sob, sob. I love milk in my tea. I already gave up coffee for darn sakes. Boy, the sacrifices these children require!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Island Mommy_
*If no sign of improvement I'll be heading for the chocolate. You know the worst thing for me is no milk in my tea. Sob, sob. I love milk in my tea. I already gave up coffee for darn sakes. Boy, the sacrifices these children require!*
:LOL
I was drooling just looking at a total stranger eat a dairy queen blizzard the other day. I really wanted some.







:

HAve you tried rice milk in your tea? I love rice milk with cereal, and it has a natural sweetness that is nice in tea.
It is the cheese that is difficult for me. I bake for a restaruant, so the temptation is so right there!!!








s


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## LaurenS (Aug 7, 2003)

I was pretty cranky the whole next day after the last time that I posted. But that night, we were trying to get Mez to sleep, and the same thing started happening. He nursed and nursed and nursed, and then cried and cried and cried. I was so tired. Then my husband took him and I went into the other room for a break. I was about to lose it again from lack of sleep and so I was about to log on, when I heard, "I feel another tooth". Then all of a sudden I felt better. There was an apparent reason for all the crying. And then I felt bad that I had been so cranky. But really I do realise that I was so tired and that I shouldn't beat myself up about it. Anyway that night was a little better, but still rough. The next morning, I wasn't feeling too bad. I was playing with Mez, when I discovered.....not one...not two...but three new teeth coming in. The poor little guy. So that explains it. I knew something was up and I am glad I now know what that something is. It can be so frustrating not knowing why he is so upset.

Anyway, I am sitting here enjoying my herbal tea (wishing it was coffee) while he is taking a nap with my husband. I hope everyone else is hanging in there.

Lauren


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

MY BABY SLEPT LAST NIGHT! and so did i. i followed another posters suggestion on another thread to take calcium and magnesium. so maybe that is a coincidence but i think island mommy had some success too so i dunno. AND she has been napping for close to 2 hrs at a time!!! that is unusual very much so. so either maybe we turned a corner or magnesium/calcium is a magic potion. you can bet i took it very carefully today just in case that is what is making her sleep!! gotta go nurse her one last time before dh puts her to sleep


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

I'm curious about the calcium/magnesium that y'all are taking. What dose and in what form. For those of you who have cut out dairy but are really missing milk in your tea I've just started using Silk non-dairy 'creamer'. It's made from organic soybeans and is pretty good. I originally started using cream in my tea instead of milk to add calories and also because the tea I'm drinking is decaf and has zero body so i needed something to round it out. Now that I've switched to the Silk I don't see much difference. Oops I guess that was kind of







T

We had a so-so night last till about 5:00 then it was lots of tossing and turning on ds's part. Not sure what I ate last night that may have caused it. He's just started on solids recently, actually only banana, so I'm thinking maybe his system is not quite ready. I bought the No Cry Sleep Solution but haven't had a chance to read it yet. How's everyone doing?


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

bad night last night for us







:
go figure, i have been on a dairy AND sugar diet all week. don't know what i ate, but dd was rolling around ALL night. ugh

gotta run....


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

Last night was a really good night. She went to bed at 8 and got up at 10, 2, 5 and was up for good at 7. I wish every night was like this. But the night before she was probably up 5 times! It seems impossible to make a plan to try and cut out some of the wakings if she does something different every night. I would like dh to take over a couple of wakings but then she has a night like last night and doesn't wake. And then you get all excited that maybe she is going to sleep better and the next night she is up 6 times. I try and just be happy that sometimes she sleeps well. I know her waking isn't about not being able to go back to sleep on her own because she will do that occasionally.

Daytime is just as erratic. On Monday she took three good naps. Yesterday she had one. She is one very unpredictable babe!

Congrats Hollyhobbie! How is everyone else doing?


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

It seems some of us have been posting on other threads. Should we let this thread die?

I am so excited about HollyHobbie. I'd love to keep hearing how it's going. It gives me hope.

My dd was up every hour again last night. Since she sleeps for about 11 hours, I'd say she was up 10 times. And yet, she's really a happy babe during the day....except for when she saw the pumpkin, which she found rather scary







:


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## LaurenS (Aug 7, 2003)

Oh no are we really letting this thread die? Well okay, but I guess I will post once more.

My son is alseep. Why am I still up? Well in the past week, I would say that he has been doing pretty well. Sleeping for about 9 hours and waking 4 to 5 times. This is a huge improvement. And he also has been napping. One hour in the morning, and about a half hour in the afternoon. Now, why do I seem to have insomnia? I am still tired. I still want to sleep, but I can't.

Lauren


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

LaurenS, come on over to the thread about baby waking 10 times a night. there is alot of good suggestions about magnesium/calcium. it really is helping me sleep.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

So, a couple of nights ago DD was unsettled more than normal and I had to keep picking her up and nursing her before she'd fall asleep. One time I put her down and had my arm stuck under her head. I wanted to cough, but didn't want to make any movement or noise so I quietly reached over to the bedside table for the glass of water I always keep there. Took a sip and next thing I know....SPLOOSH! Water all over me and the pillow and the bed. I was so tired I fell asleep before I could put the glass back down!!!

Thought you'd all appreciate that story.


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## rareimer (Oct 20, 2003)

i hear you. my 8 month old daughter does...not...sleep. i would write more but i'm just too tired!


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