# WWYD-Friend puts child in danger



## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

I have to give you a bit of background before I get to my safety question....

My neighbors across the street are my best friends (two women.) They had a DD three months after DS was born and our kids are BEST FRIENDS. I believe in my heart and with every ounce of my being that their DD has some special needs. She barely speaks and when she does it sounds like she hears everything under water. As a result, because she can't communicate effectively, she is one of the neediest, clingiest and whiniest children I have every met. Even her mothers can't understand half of what she says. Not only that, because they can't understand her they usually do whatever they have to do to get her to be quiet so they have trained her to whine until she gets what she wants because they give in EVERY TIME, this includes not wanting to sleep in her own bed at 2.5yo, they don't co-sleep.

So, I have known since day one that they though I was a "crazy crunchy momma" for everything from EBF to my unwavering belief in safety measures for my child. When they install car seats all they do is pull the belt through and buckle it, no tightening, no latches, NOTHING. I could use one finger and pull the car seat across the back of the car. One time they even tried to get me to drive a few miles home without her in a seat because they didn't want to hear her cry in her seat.

This is the big thing that prompted my post though-their family is in NJ so they travel there from RI frequently just as we do to Virginia to see my mother frequently. Lucklily my DS is really good in the car but should he have a meltdown we stop, like until he's completely cool, even if that takes an hour. I was talking to friend about this and she tells me "J is just so bad in the car and we don't have time to stop. It's gotten to the point where we just take her out of the car seat and put her in a seat belt." A TWO YEAR OLD IN A SEAT BELT ON I-95 GOING 75 MPH????????????????????????

Now, I just usually avoid all topics concerning parenting because we were good friends long before any of the kids came along but to me the choice is obvious. If your kid can't handle the car trip then you fly or you don't go until she matures a little bit. There is no reason that they HAVE to go to NJ.

Is there any way to approach the topic that they are putting their child's danger in life and keep my friendship?


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

Well, not having a child restrained properly is against the law. So you could warn them if they get pulled over, they could have some hefty problems with the police. And I am sure there will be some serious issues with child endangerment. I don't know the laws in your state, but I would look them up and try to appeal to her that way, because apparently, common sense probably won't work!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Well, they know what they're doing is wrong, they have to, so will it matter what you say? I'm not sure. Have they thought aobut a speech eval for her? I know a mom who refuses to do that for her 4yo even though her teachers have mentioned it and it makes me sad. I know she'll get help next year in K, but why wait that long? Anyways, is there a carseat check place close to you? www.carseatcheck.org that maybe you all could go to together? THere's more than enough news articles out there about children who have died from not being restrained, I'm sure I-95 has a ton of it's own, it's a scary road sometimes.


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## 3boys3girls (Apr 18, 2008)

I REALLY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR SITUATION. I PREVIOUSLY POSTED IN THE HEALTH FORUM ABOUT A "FRUSTRATING FRIEND AND PINK EYE".... Well, this same "friend" is very neglectful with her six (6) children in their vehicles. I understand how "heart wrenching" it is for you to watch & be aware of what your friends are doing. I personally find myself thinking about my "friend" and her kids so-so-so much. I don't know what more I can do. All I can sugest for you is to give your friends as much information you can about car seat safety. Print articles & stories out. Show them videos of crash tests. Show them the Kyle David ****** video on youtube.com. Keep giving them the facts. And pray. Pray for the safety & protection of the child & pray that the eyes and ears of understanding would be open. (your friends' understanding) It's so HARD when PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT.

Oh my gosh, let me give you a bit of my situation. My friend & her hubby now have 6 kids; 7m, 2,4,6, 9, 11. Plus she has 2 older kids, DD (16) & DS (21). Her oldest ds has a 2.5 year old child & he's married. So, including Friend & her dh, they are MAXED in their 12 p Chevy Express, when they are ALL together. HOWEVER, they also have a 5p Honda Civic that she uses to transport 4 of her kids to/from school (35m trip each way). I know PERFECTLy well that she OFTEN drives with ALL 6 kids in that CIVIC.

It is so frustrating, to put it nicely!! Before they had the Chevy Express, they used to COMPLETELY OVERLOAD their other mini-vans with kids; their kids and other people's kids.... NOT MINE, THOUGH. It'd be a cold day in hell b/f I'd let them drive my kids anywhere. On long road trips (across Michigan's U.P) they let their kids sleep on the floor of the van. They "double buckle". Their 30lb 6 year old (special needs) uses an Adult Seat Belt. They have a booster that is expired. and a booster that they found by a dumpster in an alley. No rear facing once a child is out of an infant seat. I've given her printed info, shown her videos, given her facts, and she just doesn't get it. In her mind, none of the "rules" apply to her, bad things only happen to other people, she's in the "perfect will of God"..... oooh, that one really gets me! And the list of other things she's done goes on & on..... leaving her very young kids unattended in her van at a public place, leaving her kids home alone at night and "requiring" that her 2 y.o remain buckled in a car seat (in the living room, even if he's awake) the entire time.

So, to bring this LONG post to an end; if you've tried to teach your friends the "proven facts" about car seat safety & that they're risking their child's life by being so careless, I think that's all you can do. You could properly install their child's car seat for them. I've done that with my friend. But there's no way to be sure that it's gong to stay installed and if they choose to allow her out of the seat, you can't stop them, as I'm sure you know. Hey, I'm even getting ready to go out and buy my friend a couple "good" seats. I run the risk of OFFENDING HER. I think about that every time I give her a "new" piece of information; something I print out. And I've even come to the realization that I'm going to have to just CONFRONT her (nicely) about this stuff. I mean, it's reallly really starting to bother me. I had a dream last night that they were made legal guardians of 3 more kids. I was screaming, crying in my dream. "i'm talking to that judge!" And if i lose her friendship, I guess that's better than a child losing his life. I'm just praying that she'll heed my "advice". So, time to bring this long post to an end.

I hope your situaton works out for the best, for everyone; ESPECIALLY THE LITTLE GIRL!


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## tbone (Dec 17, 2006)

I 've been in a similar situation. I very politely sent her links to the youtube video and also the link for the car-seat forum and a few other car seat safety links. She had asked me why I'm still rf'ing my kids so I told her I'd send her the links that help shape my decision.

I didn't say anything beyond that, when her kids are in my car they must be buckled in carseat, no excuses. They don't whine to me about it b/c they know it's the rule. I don't feel like I can force someone else to do what I believe and what statistics say is safer, that's really their call. I tried to just present the facts.

Maybe if the topic comes up you can briefly mention some of the things you've read and offer to print them out for her or send her the links? Also if you see any cool little items that might keep her LO entertained in a carseat you could mention those or make them b-day gifts.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone* 
I 've been in a similar situation. I very politely sent her links to the youtube video and also the link for the car-seat forum and a few other car seat safety links. She had asked me why I'm still rf'ing my kids so I told her I'd send her the links that help shape my decision.

I didn't say anything beyond that, when her kids are in my car they must be buckled in carseat, no excuses. They don't whine to me about it b/c they know it's the rule. I don't feel like I can force someone else to do what I believe and what statistics say is safer, that's really their call. I tried to just present the facts.

Maybe if the topic comes up you can briefly mention some of the things you've read and offer to print them out for her or send her the links? Also if you see any cool little items that might keep her LO entertained in a carseat you could mention those or make them b-day gifts.









: I think this is a great approach. You do what you can, politely, and then you step away. And the rule in your car or with your child is that safety comes first.

When I was a kid, I'd sometimes get driven by one particular family who never made their kids wear seat belts (this is back when usually only infants had carseats). They'd be jumping around all over the place, but I always sat down and put my belt on. The kids would be asking, "Why are you wearing your seat belt?" like I was crazy or something.

I promised my mom I'd always wear my seat belt, and I did, even when I was in high school and no one ever wore a seat belt. Including on a school trip for a competition my senior year, when no one in the van wore a seat belt except for me - even the teacher driving didn't wear one! Again, the kids asked me why I was wearing the seat belt. My stock answer? "I promised my mom I'd always wear a seat belt."









The next year, one of the kids who'd been in that van with me died on the way to a debate competition. The vehicle he was in was involved in an accident. Of course, he wasn't wearing a seat belt and was thrown from the vehicle.









All that said, I don't think you can (or should) really interfere too much with other parents' choices. I would politely share some information, help them get the seat properly installed, find the nearest car seat check place, and then just keep your own rules for your car and your kids. I think that's the best you can do. I understand your frustration, though.


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## BohoMama (Jun 26, 2003)

If your friends are two women who have a child together, they are of course in a socially unusual - and very sensitive - situation. If common sense and safety info fail to make an impression, what about playing it from that angle? That if anything happened, there would be many courts that would be glad to relieve them of the burden of parenthood, it would be a hell of a struggle to get their daughter back (not to mention expensive and humiliating) and they would cast a bad light on other same-sex parents.


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## Mimi (Oct 8, 2008)

It must be hard for them to have a clingy child who needs constant attention,
& while I don't approve of what they do, they probably just want their child to be happy. Maybe they don't realize the danger they put their child in. Can you find / print some articles on child safety in the car & share them with your friends?
Try to keep in mind that every parent usually wants their child to be happy, & you might hurt them & make the situation worse if you are not sensible about this. Maybe talk to someone who has more expierience with this, like a police officer for child safety, & ask them for tips on how to handle the situation, good luck for you , & , it is so very good that you care & not turn a blind eye on it, it must be hard for you,too, as it is about your best friends .


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

can I be mean? Your friend sounds like "that type." You know who they are. Something is inconvenient, then screw it. They are either lazy or believe nothing will ever happen to them, so why err on the side of caution. Well, I say, follow them and then call the cops on them







That is the ONLY way to get through to "that type, imo."


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## FullMetalMom (Aug 27, 2008)

I would call the cops on her too. Her dd could be killed.


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree with the idea of all going to a car seat check together. You could frame it as something like "I was talking to a friend of mine online who is a CPST and she mentioned that something like 80% of people have their carseats installed incorrectly, and she was telling me how dangerous it was. Now I'm nervous and I'd like to get my car checked out. Maybe we can go together and then make a day of it and go out for lunch or something."


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

On top of all that, it must be annoying to not be able to ever let your ds go anywhere in the car of his best friend's family.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Well, they know what they're doing is wrong, they have to, so will it matter what you say? I'm not sure. Have they thought aobut a speech eval for her? I know a mom who refuses to do that for her 4yo even though her teachers have mentioned it and it makes me sad. ...

If they're willing to risk her life to keep her from crying because she can't talk with them clearly I should hope to goodness they've gotten a speech eval and are in process for getting speech therapy.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

You would hope, but not everyone gets that. I'm sure there are lots of people who just consider their children high needs w/ no thought to the fact that they could be like that b/c they are frustrated at their lack of communication skills.

I don't think they're lazy from the sounds of it, they are just in deep denial over what can happen to their child WHEN they crash. B/c it's the #1 killer of kids, it's not IF you crash, it's WHEN.


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## boigrrrlwonder (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
I agree with the idea of all going to a car seat check together. You could frame it as something like "I was talking to a friend of mine online who is a CPST and she mentioned that something like 80% of people have their carseats installed incorrectly, and she was telling me how dangerous it was. Now I'm nervous and I'd like to get my car checked out. Maybe we can go together and then make a day of it and go out for lunch or something."

I agree with this post. When my baby was little, I really didn't know that you did anything more than just buckle the buckle for the car seat - and I think of myself as an attentive parent. So, I disagree with the previous poster who says she has to know: she might not. And this is the least confrontational way to deal with the situation. Calling the cops should be a LAST resort.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
I agree with this post. When my baby was little, I really didn't know that you did anything more than just buckle the buckle for the car seat - and I think of myself as an attentive parent. So, I disagree with the previous poster who says she has to know: she might not. And this is the least confrontational way to deal with the situation. Calling the cops should be a LAST resort.

Is that part of the car seat installation instructions unclear on most models? Mine clearly said 1" of movement at the belt path and even had a little illustration of a person trying to move the seat. (Being me, I went for zero movement at the belt path and checked it by bracing against the door and shoving with my legs.)


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