# 4 year old, newborn, and carseat placement...



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I sort of asked this in a thread before, but wanted to just make sure as I'm expecting babe in two months.









So... four year old in *centre*?? Newborn in bucket seat in side? Is that right? It sort of defies my instincts to protect my more vulnerable baby, but the rationale is that the bucket seat provides more protection, right?

My housemate told me to double check as she thinks I should clarify that my older child is not a toddler, but a 40 lb four year old. So, should my 40 lb four year old be in the centre, or the side?

And, while I'm at it, her carseat is one of those that has a 5 point harness or the option to just use a seatbelt and use it as a booster. Which of those should I be doing? I have no latch in my car and the carseat is installed just with a seatbelt, if that makes a difference.

Thanks mamas!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yes I would put the 4 year old in the centre.

Also, even if your car seat is installed with a seatbelt, it has to have the top tether too in Ontario. If your car does not have a top tether bolt, bring it to a dealership who can put one in either for free or 20 dollars.

I would still keep a 40 pound child harnessed. It used to be that harness went up to 48 lbs here, but now it is 65 pounds- of course all depending on your car seat limits.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

With your current seat, you need to take the harness straps out ASAP, since your 4 yo is at the weight limit. I would definitely recommend harnessing past 40 pounds in a higher-weight seat.

As for placement, this is a matter of hot debate among techs. I personally am among the "least protected goes in the middle" camp, in which case your 4yo would be in the middle, since she is FF.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Uh, it has to have the top tether? I had no idea. Wow.

I actually think my new car has a top tether, but on the side. Do I need that for the bucket seat?

i suck at carseats.

My carseat does hold up to 60... or maybe 80? lbs. But it converts to a booster. As long as she fits in the harness, it should be safe I would think.

I should call the dealership... I've been driving around for years with no tether. I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to install a carseat to a tether.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
With your current seat, you need to take the harness straps out ASAP, since your 4 yo is at the weight limit. I would definitely recommend harnessing past 40 pounds in a higher-weight seat.

Okay, why harness straps out asap? She is hovering around 40 lbs, has been for awhile and probably will be for awhile yet. I dont see how it is an emergency or a safety issue that she is harnessed? Unless I'm missing something.

Thanks for the help mamas!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Uh, it has to have the top tether? I had no idea. Wow.

My carseat does hold up to 60... or maybe 80? lbs. But it converts to a booster. As long as she fits in the harness, it should be safe I would think.


If you are in Canada, they are required. If you are in the US, they are very strongly advised. Read you manual, but the "100 lb limit" is in booster mode. It will only harness to 40 pounds. You absolutely can't use the harness past the 40 pounds.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
With your current seat, you need to take the harness straps out ASAP, since your 4 yo is at the weight limit. I would definitely recommend harnessing past 40 pounds in a higher-weight seat.

As for placement, this is a matter of hot debate among techs. I personally am among the "least protected goes in the middle" camp, in which case your 4yo would be in the middle, since she is FF.

Did I miss something? I didn't see that her car seat was a 40 lb limit?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

What seat is your dd in? Most seats that turn into a booster only harness to 40#. If she's that, she needs to either use the seatbelt and use the seat as a booster or you need to find her a new seat that harnesses past 40# (there are plenty of options now). I would reccomend finding a new seat, but you do what you have to do. If you have to turn it into a booster, she needs to have a lap/shoulder belt so might have to go on the side since I doubt you have lap/shoulder belt in the middle. In that case, baby would go in the middle.

From the sounds of it, your dd needs her seat turned into a booster ASAP!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Did I miss something? I didn't see that her car seat was a 40 lb limit?

She said it's a combo seat, that converts to a booster. ALL of these seats, with the exception of the Apex and the Nautilus, only harness to 40 pounds.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
If you are in Canada, they are required. If you are in the US, they are very strongly advised. Read you manual, but the "100 lb limit" is in booster mode. It will only harness to 40 pounds. You absolutely can't use the harness past the 40 pounds.









Are you sure?

My car seat manual says you can harness until 48 pounds, and I've seen that you can harness some seats until 65 pounds.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Um, I have no manual.







Loooooong lost.

I see, though, the point about the harness not being strong enough to harness past 40 lbs!! Geez. That's scary. She is right at 40, maybe 39, not 41 even so I feel fine about the harness for now but that is really good information.

I don't really want to get another carseat. It must be safe to have 40lbs+ children in booster seats, no? Since it's legal and all...


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
She said it's a combo seat, that converts to a booster. ALL of these seats, with the exception of the Apex and the Nautilus, only harness to 40 pounds.

I have a convertible seat that harnesses to 48 pounds.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

It sounds like your dd needs her seat switched to a booster ASAP. Almost all combo seats (especially if you haven't bought it in the last year) only go to 40# w/ the harness and then you can use them as a booster after that. She will need to be on the side where you have a lap/shoulder belt and then baby can go in the middle. No, neither the booster or the infant seat will need a tether anchor.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Are you sure?

My car seat manual says you can harness until 48 pounds, and I've seen that you can harness some seats until 65 pounds.

SOME seats, yes. Not combo seats. Canada has different weight limits on some seats.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Are you sure?

My car seat manual says you can harness until 48 pounds, and I've seen that you can harness some seats until 65 pounds.

I should figure out the brand and look it up on the net. It goes til at least 60 lbs but I don't know what my particular harness would hold up to weight wise.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I have a convertible seat that harnesses to 48 pounds.

You're in Canada, since OP didn't say we are assuming she's in the US. All but 3? combo seats here harness to only 40#.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
It sounds like your dd needs her seat switched to a booster ASAP. Almost all combo seats (especially if you haven't bought it in the last year) only go to 40# w/ the harness and then you can use them as a booster after that. She will need to be on the side where you have a lap/shoulder belt and then baby can go in the middle. No, neither the booster or the infant seat will need a tether anchor.

OMG this thread is confusing the hell out of me.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

She is in Canada. We live near each other. That's why I mentioned the top tether being the law here.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 

I see, though, the point about the harness not being strong enough to harness past 40 lbs!! Geez. That's scary. She is right at 40, maybe 39, not 41 even so I feel fine about the harness for now but that is really good information.

I don't really want to get another carseat. It must be safe to have 40lbs+ children in booster seats, no? Since it's legal and all...

Legal, but definitely not recommended. I would feel MUCH better with that child in booster mode than using the harness past 40 pounds. Where are her shoulders in relation to the top slot?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
You're in Canada, since OP didn't say we are assuming she's in the US. All but 3? combo seats here harness to only 40#.

We're good friends IRL, me and the_lissa. Sorry, that would totally not be obvious from this thread! And my 'banned for being canadian' tag is long gone.

I'm in Canada.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Hot thread, everyone's posting at the same time.









4 AND 40# is the min reccomended to use a booster w/ a child, but the longer they are harnessed, the safer they are. By 6 a child is more able to w/stand crash forces on their body. My 4.5yo is 41# and still harnessed and will be till at LEAST 6.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
She is in Canada. We live near each other. That's why I mentioned the top tether being the law here.

Thanks for clarifying! Since she didn't state she was in Canada, I just assumed she was in the US.

Now, even in Canada, combo seats do not harness past 40 pounds.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I have a convertible seat that harnesses to 48 pounds.

That's why I said COMBO seat


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Legal, but definitely not recommended. I would feel MUCH better with that child in booster mode than using the harness past 40 pounds. Where are her shoulders in relation to the top slot?

Um, I have no idea. I can't even guarantee I've moved the straps to the top slot.

Do I get the bad mama of the year award here?







:

I don't think much about carseat stuff usually. I just strapped it in, strapped her in, and thought it was safe.

Crap.

Okay: Request from you mamas for safest, non-over-money-spending-due-to-paranoia recommendation? For both my kiddos? What seat, what location, tether straps needed?

Thanks.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
That's why I said COMBO seat









I'm sorry I get combo and convertible confused. I have one seat that goes ff and a booster and one that goes rf and ff. They both harness to 48 pounds.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Thanks for clarifying! Since she didn't state she was in Canada, I just assumed she was in the US.

Now, even in Canada, combo seats do not harness past 40 pounds.

No true, there are plenty of combo seats in Canada that harness past 40#. I think most go to 47# though, not 48# like the convertibles (don't know why the # difference). The Chase, Generations, and CarGo all harness past 40#.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Okay, take the seat out of the car and look at the back to see if the harness is in the top slots. The straps must be at or above the shoulder. If your seat is a Eddie Bauer/Dorel/Cosco/Safety 1st seat with the headrest that moves up, you cannot use the top slots in harness mode.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
No true, there are plenty of combo seats in Canada that harness past 40#. I think most go to 47# though, not 48# like the convertibles (don't know why the # difference). The Chase, Generations, and CarGo all harness past 40#.

No way! I didn't know that. I stand corrected! I'll step out now since you've got it covered


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

What car do you have, year and make? Go to your car and find out what carseat you have for your odd? What seat are you using for the baby?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Okay, gonna go look, hang on, brb...


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I would call the car seat company and find out the weight limit if you can't find the manual.

I'm not sure about your city, but in mine, you can also call the fire dept for help from a car seat tech.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I should do that, Lissa, thanks.

DD's carseat is an Evenflo but I don't see the particular model on it nor can I find it on the Evenflo website. Weird?

Baby's carseat is a bucket seat, an Evenflo Portabout.

Car is a 1995 Chrysler Intrepid.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Most of the information she needs should be on stickers on the side. If you don't have all those stickers, you should probably get a new seat anyways. Go here http://www.carseatsite.com/recommended_car_seats.htm and scroll down to Canadian Help.

ETA: This will have pics of the Chase and Generations on there too so you know what those look like.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I have the stickers still. The instructions on them say to install with a seatbelt just as I've done, and harness/booster instructions. So... I'm not sure how helpful those stickers are.







Since they don't mention it's ILLEGAL to not have a tether in Ontario.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

O.K. your carseats should move less than an inch side to side when properly installed. First you'll want to see if your seat belts lock. I'm thinking your car will have lightweight locking latchplates and might look like this.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/Lwlpfron.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/lightwe2.jpg
W/ the middle looking like this.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/backlock.jpg
These all lock on their own so you won't need a locking clip. If they don't look like that, try pulling the shoulder belt all the way out, slowly, and then let it back in a little and try pulling it back out. If it won't come out (and you hear a ratcheting sound when it's going in) than your belts lock that way.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I have the stickers still. The instructions on them say to install with a seatbelt just as I've done, and harness/booster instructions. So... I'm not sure how helpful those stickers are.







Since they don't mention it's ILLEGAL to not have a tether in Ontario.

Well in Canada it is illegal to not have a tether, you think they'd put that on there. The stickers will tell you when to switch the seat from harness to booster mode though, it should say use harness 20-40 or 47# and then you can use booster from 40-80# or kg I guess.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Yep, mine do look like that. I should check locking anyway. I know the middle one locks coz every time I reintall DDs seat (I move it to my housemate's truck etc. a fair bit) I wrench the crap outta the seatbelt to make it tight and I know that damn thing does not give easy.

But i've never used the side belts for a carseat. I will check today.

Thanks for the help! I can't believe how little I knew about carseats. I thought lalala carseat is fine, looks like the pictures, no worries.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Well in Canada it is illegal to not have a tether, you think they'd put that on there. The stickers will tell you when to switch the seat from harness to booster mode though, it should say use harness 20-40 or 47# and then you can use booster from 40-80# or kg I guess.









Oh, okay! i will check the labels for the weight limit then. I didn't notice that but it's probably on there.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I can't find anything in my LATCH/tether book on a 95 Chrysler Intrepid (that's b/c it's a Dodge, info at the bottom), you will have to contact the dealership about having a tether hook installed if in fact your seat does harness past 40#. You also want to make sure the straps are even w/ or above her shoulders. She could outgrow the seat that way before hitting the max weight for the harness. It sounds like you were doing it right though. You want to buckle the seat in, put pressure on it (sit in it, put a knee in it etc) and tighten the belt as much as you can. You then get off the seat and check to see if it moves more than an inch side to side. If it does, repeat the last instructions till it moves less than an inch side to side. Same w/ the infant seat base and remember that the handle on the infant seat HAS to be down when using it in the car.

Canada Dodge #-800-465-2001 You need part #14519077AB for all seating poisitions.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Thank you very much!

This is good timing as I just got a new car (old one got in a minor wreck with large repairs necessary) and we can start off on the safest possible foot!


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Thank you very much!

This is good timing as I just got a new car (old one got in a minor wreck with large repairs necessary) and we can start off on the safest possible foot!

Umm, were the carseat(s) installed in the car when it got into a wreck? They would need to be replaced also.

I highly recommend getting your seats checked out by a CRST when you get the ones you want installed in the correct car.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Yeah the one was in the car but it was a minor wreck.

Bad? I didn't think of it. Very minor wreck...


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Yeah the one was in the car but it was a minor wreck.

Bad? I didn't think of it. Very minor wreck...

Hmm, trying to parse out what "minor wreck" might mean









Different manufacturers have different standards, but after an accident you should definitely replace the car seat - it's really a "one-time use" item. Good for one collision only (whether occupied or not).


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

I am also in canada (and recently certified as a crst). I would get another harnessed seat for the 4yo, and not worry so much if she's in the middle or not (the middle is safest, but the outboard seats are not "dangerous" per se.
Especially if she is harnessed in a seat that hasn't been in an accident!)

Here's a little list with some carseats and recent prices at different stores, just to give you an idea.

Evenflo Generations - harness up to 47lbs - $139.99 at Toys R Us
Evenflo Chase - harness up to 47lbs -$99 at TRU
Evenflo Triumph Advance (harness up to 47lbs, doesn't turn into booster) $149.99 at TRU
Evenflo Titan Deluxe (harness up to 47lbs, doesn't turn into booster) $129.99 at TRU
Evenflo Traditions Plus - harness up to 47lbs. - $119 at sears
Graco® Treasured Cargo - harness up to 48lbs - $120 at Zellers
Radian (harness up to 65lbs, doesn't turn into booster, but has tall harness slots) $199 online
Apex (up to 65lbs, but you need head restraints (headrests) to use it) $179.99 at sears
Britax Marathon (harness up to 65lbs, doesn't turn into booster) - $299 at Toys R Us


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cancat* 
Hmm, trying to parse out what "minor wreck" might mean









Okay, low speed, low impact crash... at least it seemed so. My daughter's dad was driving, tried to turn into his driveway, backed up to correct the angle, a woman travelling behind him thought he was backing into the opposite driveway, he pulled forward and she hit him in the front passenger side.

He was travelling extremely slowly, she was going maybe 30-40 km/hour. I'm not sure what that is in miles? Slow speed due to icy conditions on a residential street, basically.

There was a fair bit of damage though, front passenger door bashed in and uncloseable, passenger wheel bent and possibly loose, and the trunk became slightly ajar which is odd considering the place of impact. DD was in the car at the time and was totally uninjured and untraumatized, thankfully. Body shop estimated $4000 in damage, so my vehicle is a write off coz it was worth about half that.

I wonder... I'm going to Costco in about an hour and wonder if I should get a booster seat.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Yes, I would get a new carseat after something like that.

A seat that harnesses PAST 40lbs, and then turns into a booster (using the car's seatbelts). The Safety 1st Summit at costco does NOT harness past 40lbs, don't know if they have any other carseats there...


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Okay thanks. It didn't occur to me about the carseat being in the accident.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

So at Toys R Us the booster is $39, the harness that holds to 65 lbs is $179. Holy crap!!!!!!!!

The Europeans I know are telling me Americans and Canadians would encase ourselves in a metal bubble if we could, Europe is not nearly this paranoid, to just do the booster and stop worrying. I'm going to check prices at Canadian Tire for the harness seat before I decide what to do.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yikes check Zellers too. I know I saw a high harness limit there for around 100 that can also be a booster.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Ha! See, $100 I would spend and be happy about it. Not so much with the $179. Apparently it's going on sale march 15 but the saleswoman didn't know for how much.

The booster did look a bit... flimsy... to me. I'm not so sure I'm comfy with that either. Gah.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
So at Toys R Us the booster is $39, the harness that holds to 65 lbs is $179. Holy crap!!!!!!!!

The Europeans I know are telling me Americans and Canadians would encase ourselves in a metal bubble if we could, Europe is not nearly this paranoid, to just do the booster and stop worrying. I'm going to check prices at Canadian Tire for the harness seat before I decide what to do.

Well, in the netherlands they rear-face until 4 or so, so I think we're kind of in the middle...

There's more info and crash test video here:
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages..._is_Safest.htm
(Kyle David ****** is a 5 year old who died when his booster failed in a rollover, he would have survived if he had been harnessed)

Walmart has some of the evenflo ones, I think...


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Ugh, that creeps me out. Makes me wanna either buy the super expensive carseat or even better, take the bus.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Have you settled w/ the other insurance already? They should replace your seat. Did they know you had a carseat in your car?

Evenflo Generations - harness up to 47lbs - $139.99 at Toys R Us *This is a good one and makes a decent booster*
Evenflo Chase - harness up to 47lbs -$99 at TRU *Not bad if using the harness, but not a great booster*
Evenflo Triumph Advance (harness up to 47lbs, doesn't turn into booster) $149.99 at TRU *Nice, but you don't need it to rf, but you could get it now and pass it to baby in a little bit and buy yet another new seat, lol*
Evenflo Titan Deluxe (harness up to 47lbs, doesn't turn into booster) $129.99 at TRU *wouldn't even bother, my 4yo is too tall for this seat*
Evenflo Traditions Plus - harness up to 47lbs. - $119 at sears *I think this one is like the Chase, bad as a booster*
Graco® Treasured Cargo - harness up to 48lbs - $120 at Zellers *I think these are all rear adjust seats, RUN away*
Radian (harness up to 65lbs, doesn't turn into booster, but has tall harness slots) $199 online *have one and like it and it will last my son till probably at least 6.5yo, can be used rfing too*
Apex (up to 65lbs, but you need head restraints (headrests) to use it) $179.99 at sears *all right seat, very wide though*
Britax Marathon (harness up to 65lbs, doesn't turn into booster) - $299 at Toys R Us *AJ will be out of this about the time he turns 5, not worth it IMO*


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks thepeach! I don't know the brand name of the seat at Toys R Us. Width is not a huge concern to me as my car's backseat is freaking huge.

Walmart (*cringe*) has the Apex for $169.95... that's $10 cheaper than the seat at Toys R Us. From what I am reading only three brands that harness to 65 lbs are available in Canada:

Safety1st Apex
Britax Marathon
Sunshine Kids Radian

From this discussion: http://forum.canadianparents.com/ubb...&Number=685726

I called Canadian Tire but the dude wouldn't go check for me...







. I should call Zellers too just to be sure. I wish these seats weren't so darn expensive but I just can't see putting DD in a booster right now, or buying one that will take her 8 lbs or so further really... although I know I could pass it on to babe, if I don't feel the booster is adequate in 8 lbs I'll be looking at a big expense all over again.

Ugh. I hate car driving. I do it coz it's convenient and my life would be too hectic otherwise, but damn.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

What are headrests/head restraints? Is that just a high enough backseat that the child's head is not above it? Or... something else?


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Yes, those are the only ones that go to 65#, but the Graco Nautilus should be available in July and I really like that one. It'll harness to 65# and then a booster till 100#. The Apex has to have support up the top of the child's ears. Unless you have high backed seats or adjustable headrests, which in your car I'm guessing you have neither, might as well nix the Apex. Have you figured out how high yours harnesses anyways? Here's a guide that Britax uses for their seats, all other manufacturers say to replace the seat in a crash, but this may help your decision one way or the other at least for now. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...raintReUse.htm


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## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Hey TM, you know that you and I are in a similar situation (pregnant, 4yo DDs...). So I'm reading your thread with interest. I just posted a similar thread here if you'd like to read it.

I've been advised to get the Graco Nautilus. It harnesses to 65 lbs and then boosters to 100 lbs.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:

#

Minor crashes are those that meet ALL of the following criteria:

* The vehicle was able to be driven away from the crash site;
* The vehicle door nearest the safety seat was undamaged;
* There were no injuries to any of the vehicle occupants;
* The air bags (if present) did not deploy; AND
* There is no visible damage to the safety seat
The impact did meet all those criteria. I was talking to my housemate tonight about being all freaked about replacing the seat, she knows a lot about car stuff and is a little drunky tonight, and she was like, 'OMG what are you thinking? Dont spend tons of money you don't have on a new seat. just keep the old seat! it was a fender bender and you probably didn't have it installed very tightly anyway. the seat is fine!'

That would sure solve a lot of problems if that's the case, as the Evenflo seats that convert to boosters apparently go to 47 or 48 lbs with the harness. That would buy me like a year or two.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

This is going way back to your original question







, but my oldest was 4 when my ds2 was born. I wanted to kep him in the middle, but we had to put the rf seat in the middle b/c there was no room behind the seats. It needed that room in between the front seats. SO you may have to have the baby in the middle afterall, you just won't know until you install the seat. Good luck figuring out which seat to get, if any!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
The impact did meet all those criteria. I was talking to my housemate tonight about being all freaked about replacing the seat, she knows a lot about car stuff and is a little drunky tonight, and she was like, 'OMG what are you thinking? Dont spend tons of money you don't have on a new seat. just keep the old seat! it was a fender bender and you probably didn't have it installed very tightly anyway. the seat is fine!'

That would sure solve a lot of problems if that's the case, as the Evenflo seats that convert to boosters apparently go to 47 or 48 lbs with the harness. That would buy me like a year or two.

Actually, that is the NHTSA standard for replacing seats, but different manufacturers have different standards. Britax follows the NHTSA rules, but Evenflo and Graco say to replace if it has been in ANY accident at all, no matter how minor. If in doubt, call Evenflo (by law their number has to be on the sticker on your seat) and see what they recommend.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Well, of course they are going to say that though... either they make money on a new seat or they don't.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Huh. I posted last night to say I wouldn't trust the manufacturer's opinion on whether to replace a seat, as they want to make money, no? They would have no interest in telling me to keep it. Anyway, it says I'm the last poster to the thread but I don't see the post. Weird.

I was also still wondering about this headrests/head restraints thing with the Safety 1st Apex? Like, what does that mean? I have high back seats, that is my seat backs are taller than DD's head, in a carseat. But there are no special headrests or anything.

I have only seen the Apex sold at the two places I've looked here in town so far... no other models that harness to 65. I checked Toys R Us again and it's the Apex.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
Yes, those are the only ones that go to 65#, but the Graco Nautilus should be available in July and I really like that one. It'll harness to 65# and then a booster till 100#. The Apex has to have support up the top of the child's ears. Unless you have high backed seats or adjustable headrests, which in your car I'm guessing you have neither, might as well nix the Apex. Have you figured out how high yours harnesses anyways? Here's a guide that Britax uses for their seats, all other manufacturers say to replace the seat in a crash, but this may help your decision one way or the other at least for now. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...raintReUse.htm

I'm confused... isn't the Nautilus available right now?? I just tried my DS out in one yesterday at Baby Depot...


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

She is in Canada, and they wont' be getting the Nautilus until July.

I really don't think the car seat manufacturers are trying to rip you off. They want to make money, sure, but honestly if you use the seat after an accident to "stick it to the man" you are just endangering your child.

The Apex requires high seat backs because the top is not reinforced (it's really quite flimsy at the top, if you play with it) and requires the high seat back to protect your child's neck in a crash.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
She is in Canada, and they wont' be getting the Nautilus until July.

I really don't think the car seat manufacturers are trying to rip you off. They want to make money, sure, but honestly if you use the seat after an accident to "stick it to the man" you are just endangering your child.

Come now, let's not be paranoid and overstate the case. If the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration provides guidelines for safe use following collisions, they're not just pulling that out of their backsides, yk? Its nice to tell me that I'm a bad mama if I don't go blow $200 on a new seat, but seriously... I like to evaluate things a little more critically than 'omgz you are a bad mama unless you blindly follow the manufacturer recs!!!' It kinda destroys credibility for me coz that is just not how I roll.

I don't come by $200 super crazy easy. We would miss that money in our budget. I am fine with spending it if it is *necessary*. But it seems there is credible information to say it is just not that necessary. Unless I'm missing something? I don't want to make choices that could endanger my child, but I also don't want to fall victim to paranoia-induced consumerism.

Quote:

The Apex requires high seat backs because the top is not reinforced (it's really quite flimsy at the top, if you play with it) and requires the high seat back to protect your child's neck in a crash.
So... if I have seats that are tall enough to reach past my child's head, the Apex is fine? Or, they have to have some special reinforcement or headrest like the front seats do?


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

The thing is, you have a few trained child passenger safety technicians here telling you you might want to get a new seat, and no one's paying us to say that







Personally, I would follow the manufacturer's instructions, rather than the NHTSA, since the NHSTA does not itself test ALL the seats. Also, there are alot of things out there that the government says are "safe", but aren't really so, if you know what I mean...

Did you figure out how many lbs your current seat harnesses to?

You can see the second post in this thread for more info on the apex/headrest thing...
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=11014
or post a new question there with your car make and model...

I'd call it paranoia if car collisions weren't the number one cause of death for kids 1-14. No one's calling you a bad mom though, we're just trying to give you some info.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I'm not one to get crazy and replace seats AFTER every MINOR crash, the thing is none of us were there w/ you and seeing as how you had to have some pretty severe work done on your car (enough to total it) it would make me get a new seat probably, but you are looking at getting a new one it seems so I'll just try to help you make a good long lasting choice.







Like I mentioned though, if this crash was NOT your fault than the other person's insurance should cover it. Even if you've settled, I'd call them and tell them you just realized seats needed to be replaced after a crash, you had one in the car and you need to get it replaced.

The Apex will only be good until the tops of your dd's ears get to the top of the seat back and then it will be useless, harnessed or booster, it's no good. That's why you want to make sure you'll be getting more than a few inches use out of it and probably not the best choice for you.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm not telling you to go out and spend $200. I would rather see this child in a high-back booster than in a crashed seat, especially if it is (possibly) being used past the weight limit.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that since your seat was in a crash AND you're unsure as the what the wight limits on it ACTUALLY are (for using the harness), you should get a new seat.

If you're sure that she's at least 40 lbs and would sit properly in a booster each and every time she rode in it, you could go with one. But if I understand correctly, you'll beed to buy a high-backed booster since you don't have headreasts in the back seat. That said, if you can swing it, I'd try and get a Radian. Every step up in a carseat is a step down in safety, and 4 is still pretty young to sit properly every time she rides in the car.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Okay, gonna try to respond to everything. There has been no insurance settlement yet, and I don't know who will be found at fault. I was not driving but if my daughter's dad is found at fault ain't nobody gonna be buying us a carseat... I don't know how it's going to turn out but I'll be surprised if he is not found at least partially at fault due to the location of the impact.

Evenflo seats that convert from 5 point to boosters apparently all harness to either 47 or 48 lbs (I forget which). Mine is an Evenflo, so there ya go. We're good there.

I would rather my child be in this seat, which complies with the recs for seats that have seen a collision, than in a booster with a seatbelt... I went and looked at the boosters and they look flimsy to me. I am not comfortable with the seatbelt thing, high backed booster or no high back. This one will still harness her for 7 or 8 more lbs, and I feel its integrity has not been compromised, as do my daughter's dad and my housemate. I thought that before I saw the NHTSA stuff about collisions, and seeing that only made me feel better as the collision my vehicle was in met all their criteria.

The only seats I have found that harness to 65 lbs are the Safety 1st brand, and that doesn't sound like a good choice so I'm going to avoid that one.

What I *may* do as a couple of people suggested is go get another Evenflo, especially if I can find one for a reasonable price that converts from backward facing to ff, so I could use it for my baby. Or, I may go price out the other currently available brands of seats that harness to 65 lbs, but it sounds like they are going to be more pricey than the Apex which turns me off.

eta - Thing is, we have a limited budget and everyone I know, including folks with waaaay more extra money than me, drive around with their kids in simple booster seats at this age. It seems... frivolous... to me to spend an arm and a leg that I really don't have on some giant deluxe fortress of a carseat. I know ya'll are going to say 'well but of course you should' and I get that, but I am looking for balance here, yk? I'm not sure where that balance comes, but I'm balancing 'American safety paranoia' with 'what do I really think about the current seat we have' with 'what is the safest option within my budget.' So I'm sorry I'm not jumping all over the recs to get a super supreme seat here, but that's what's going on for me.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I would get another Evenflo then, since you like it, and have your DD use it until your wee one is born. Then, get her a Turbo booster or something similar.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Well I could use it til my baby outgrows the bucket, which would be longer. Then decide what to do.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Perfect, that should buy you quite a few months, at which point maybe you will be comfortable with your DD in a booster


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Okay, well I ended up buying an Evenflo Triumph Advance LX. Like this only in brown:

http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/Prod...3-b05b25860e98

I gotta say... it's a really, really cool seat.







I blew $150 but I actually feel fine about that. It harnesses to 47 lbs (US info seems to say 50 lbs), it's big and cushy and just seems really solid and sturdy. It makes my DDs old seat look like a bit of a joke which was actually kind of alarming to see.

I know it's safe/accident free, I know it definitely harnesses past 40 lbs, and I can use it for my baby when s/he outgrows the bucket seat... so it's not like I'm getting screwed into paranoid consumerism because I will need another seat anyway so I'm just buying it early. Which makes me happy to think about.







Then I can decide when my daughter is much further into the booster seat weight range, and when I am not dealing with pregnancy hormone-related anxiety, whether I feel fine about a booster or want to get a seat that harnesses to 65 lbs. Plus then maybe there will be better options instead of just the Safety 1st Apex which seems to be all anyone around here carries (I checked Canadian Tire tonight as well).

We installed it in the back passenger side seat, because that has a tether... that's right, right? Got a much, much tighter install with a lapbelt and a tether... amazing.

So... that's good. I feel good about the carseat sitch now. Thanks mamas! Even my sour housemate approved of the purchase.









Oh, how do I know if I need a seatbelt lock on my seatbelts? The seat seems like it's never gonna budge a millimetre so it seems safely installed to me, but we couldn't figure out how to know about the lock thing.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
O.K. your carseats should move less than an inch side to side when properly installed. First you'll want to see if your seat belts lock. I'm thinking your car will have lightweight locking latchplates and might look like this.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/Lwlpfron.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/lightwe2.jpg
W/ the middle looking like this.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...n/backlock.jpg
These all lock on their own so you won't need a locking clip. If they don't look like that, try pulling the shoulder belt all the way out, slowly, and then let it back in a little and try pulling it back out. If it won't come out (and you hear a ratcheting sound when it's going in) than your belts lock that way.

Ah, just found this post again. Never mind about the 'do my seatbelts lock' question... they do look like the pics but I will try that trick in the morning to make sure.


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## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

I think you made a great choice! Way to go on learning about your car and carseat!!!

And just so you know, in Ontario, if your car has a carseat in it during an accident and you run a claim through the insurance company is REQUIRED to replace the carseat if you so desire as part of the claim (we're working on our 3rd. Someone sideswiped our parked car then we were rear ended by a transport) You have to take the carseat to them to destroy though. One of the reasons you aren't supposed to use a seat again is, like a bike helmet, they often have energy absorbing foam in them that is designed to crush with minimal impacts thus protecting the occupant. It doesn't take much to crush some of it and it's often hidden making it hard to see damage.

It's often helpful to have the carseat manual to refer to. We keep ours under the carseat cover because it's attached with elastic but it does get kinda icky there (our DD LOVES to dump her water out in her carseat... silly non-valve sigg bottles!). Pop it in the glove box for future reference. They're all online if you need them though.

And yes, your forward facing seat HAS to be tethered here so way to go on finding that too! It's all very confusing when you start to investigate carseats.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Thanks!

I actually just emailed my friend to tell her I think her kiddo is past the weight limit for her harness. Oy! I now know a LOT about carseats.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm glad you got a new seat that you are happy about







We have that same seat for our DFS and love it. It should last you a very long time!


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Now you're gonna be hooked on car seat safety!!







I think you made a really good choice! Congrats!


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Yeah I've been reading up about safety today still... very interesting.

I feel so great about this carseat, I can't tell you. This has actually caused me a LOT of anxiety over the past few days, figuring out what to do and all. I'm horrified at how poorly installed my other seat was, I had NO idea how badly it was in until we did it right. Holy crap, man.

Thanks for all the help, and all the talking through all the various angles of the situation. I feel I found the perfect seat for safety, budget, DDs size, my next babe, etc. and we improved the install like 1000%. Fabulous!! I think I shall likely get a Nautilus when I need to move the kids each up a size, since it will be available here by then.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Wonderful!


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

You really ARE a goner. Already talking about a new seat. A woman after my own heart.


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## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

If the nautilus ever makes it to Canada anyway...

We're waiting to see if it makes it here too... I'd like to move my 3 yr old into a Nautilus and move the new baby to the Marathon when baby is out of his/her infant seat.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Damn, I thought it was coming in July, no?


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## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

I'll believe it when I see it. There's great speculation at another carseat related website about whether it's coming to Canada or not. There are rumours about a new Britax booster/ high weight harness seat becoming available this spring too but again, whether it will come to Canada at the same time is anyone's guess... Still, we can hope!


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