# What do you say instead of "Good Job!" to a toddler?



## twostraightlines (Aug 28, 2004)

I haven't read Unconditional Parenting yet (my library has a copy on hold for me), but have read the article about praise. I agree with the article, but don't know what to say to a toddler, because I really don't think that ds will understand the more elaborate feedback that Kohn suggests. Any ideas?


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

Hi mamas!
I'm new to GD "theory" and don't get this - what's wrong with saying "good job" (assuming, of course, that you're being honest and not just giving empty praise)? I thought the idea was not to label the _child_, but that congratulating on a job clearly well done, that the child is pleased with, isn't _that_. Whassup with that?
Thanks!


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

It is a really hard thing for me not to say, "Good job." Mostly because DS is so enthusiastic when he does something that it is contagious, and I just blurt it out. What I TRY to do is comment on the task specifically, "I see you are jumping over the sidewalk." "I see you are sliding without help." However, I think that the exuberance in my voice is = to saying "Good job". Some of the UP moms will probably be able to help sort this out.

Anna B, who is on chapter 2 of UP


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## moongoddess (Jun 1, 2005)

Hi I am new here.

I say things like: "What a great helper you are being!" Or, "Isn't it nice to potty in the toilet so the poop doesn't get all over your bum!" "I like all the colours you used" (in you scribble drawing)

I think kids know when they are doing a "good" job and when you are BS'ing them. It is better to point out the reality of the situation in a gentle way. IMHO.


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## twostraightlines (Aug 28, 2004)

Robinna-

Here is an article that summarizes why some believe praise is not good.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm


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## writermommy (Jan 29, 2005)

When you do praise a child, it should be specific praise. "Good Job" like good girl, is general and meaningless. I agree with pp who suggested saying good helper. I'll usually say thanks for helping me clean up the mess. or whatever.

Our first grader has been struggling in school, so we praise her efforts. When she comes home with a good test grade, we can't let it go without acknowleding her. We always praise _how hard she worked_ rather than the grade itself. This sends the message that hard work pays off and effort will get you a better grade on the spelling test. Of course we praise her effort even in the absence of the grade, as the goal is to motivate her to work.


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## ja mama (Sep 6, 2003)

"You did it!"


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## amybw (Jul 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ja mama*
"You did it!"

same here. or maybe a little more specific.

Well, look what you did! You_____
I knew you could do (it)!
You put the toys in the toybox all by yourself!

hope those are acceptable!

















Amy


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I love "Good Job!" I think Alfie Kohn is totally off base on this one, sorry.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I say good job quite a bit, and don't have a problem with it in general.

But, I am conscious to not say it all the time, and to try to give specific feedback. I say things like:

You did it!
Wow, that's really pretty.
Yay!
How neat - what kind of train is it?
Thank you so much for helping pick up.
You were really great at the grocery store today - thank you for being so helpful.
I am really proud of the way you shared with your friend today.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *writermommy*
When you do praise a child, it should be specific praise. "Good Job" like good girl, is general and meaningless.

A lot of people have come across the idea that saying "good job" is a problem, and mistakenly assumed that the problem is that it's not specific enough. But Alfie Kohn argues pretty persuasively (in _Punished by Rewards_ and _Unconditional Parenting_) that ANY praise that's intended to encourage a child to repeat a behavior can be a problem. It doesn't matter if it's specific or vague.

If my DD is happy and proud about something she did, I'll share in her happiness by saying something like, "You did it!"

If she does something helpful, I generally say, "Thanks" in the same tone I'd use with an adult (not going wild with excitement.)

If she's learning a new skill and I want to let her know when she's doing it right, or when she's achieved the end result I had in mind, I say something like, "Yep, that's right," or "Yes, like that! You did it!"

Often, there's no need to say anything at all about what she's doing. I don't want her to come to expect that everything she does is going to get some comment from me, either positive or negative.

I do show her affection, tell her how much I love her, act delighted to be in her company, etc. all the time. But I try not to use those things as rewards for good behavior. I think she needs them whether she's "good" or "bad."


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## mother nurture (Oct 13, 2004)

New to GD, hope it's ok to post









We live in a time when almost as soon as a chil does something we are saying "Good Job". I haven't read the book, but I have read numerous articles and agree that children are overpraised! In my opinion this takes away from a sense of self-pride in themselves, without the influence of external sources. I try very hard not to say good job, but it does come out so naturally at times.

I think that oceanbaby had some great examples. I have learned more at the local co-op preschool, where I will be working in August that there are many things that can be said instead of good job.

When a child paints a pictures..."look at all the colors that you chose. which is your favorite? i love the way..."

When a child shares with another child..."look at how happy they are that you shared with them. that was so kind."

These are just a couple examples, but I hope they help. I know that for me it is important to give the children, and my dd, opportunities to be proud of themselves, as well as have the opportunity to learn. I definitely am going to check out that book, though!


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## Eilleen (May 29, 2005)

My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending. I wouldn't say it to adults, so why would I say it to children?


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## amj'smommy (Feb 24, 2005)

Quote:

My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending
I think the tone of voice in which it was said would be what makes it sound condescending.My son is PDD/NOS and we use "Good job" on a daily basis with him as well as using it with our other children. I don't see anything wrong with it if you're using it honestly and not just to brush the child aside with empty praise.


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## lioralourie (Aug 22, 2004)

In my experience, when I lived in the U.S. I remember that "Good job" was often said with this sort of cheerleaderish, totally fake, overblown exuberance...you've heard it.

I in general try to avoid it in favor of more specific things (You did it! and matching the smile of my toddler is one of my biggies). But when I do say "good job" it's said casually, and used for something casual, never for something that we're "working on" or something that I feel is a true accomplishment. Kind of like an "atta girl" and a pat on the bum when she gets down off her highchair.

Maybe that's what gets me about the "good job" tone I've heard so often, it's usually said by well-meaning parents who may not be spending enough calm, real time with their child and so reflexively "maximize" their emotions while around them. It's that hyper "gotta keep it positive" thing. When you only spend a couple of hours a day with a child, it changes the dynamic. I think that "good job" in itself isn't a bad thing necessarily. But it's all in the tone and the dynamic.


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

Quote:

But Alfie Kohn argues pretty persuasively (in Punished by Rewards and Unconditional Parenting) that ANY praise that's intended to encourage a child to repeat a behavior can be a problem. It doesn't matter if it's specific or vague.
Does he say _why_? Genuinly curious, I haven't read anything by that author.

I've always been under the impression that any praise is good praise. I grew up in a house where I was pretty much ignored when I did "good" things, because I was just expected to do them. So if I went out of my way to do the dishes without being asked, the accomplishment went ignored. All this did was made the negative comments stand out more. I was _never_ ignored if I spilled a drink, or forgot to make my bed. I always felt that it wouldn't have been such a big deal to get in trouble when I slacked, if I was only noticed when I made an effort to help out. I feel the same way now that I'm an adult. For once, I'd love DH to come home and say "Wow, the house looks great! Thanks for cleaning up. Good job!" But maybe I'm just praise deficient. :LOL

I never would have thought that praise could have a negative impact. Is it the way the praise is delivered? Does it have something to do with it becoming "background noise" if it's over-used? I praise my 2 year old a lot, mainly because she completely glows when I do. She seems so proud of herself each time she brings me her empty cup or bowl, or takes something to the garbage. Of course I'd love this behaviour to continue. It's bad enough I have to run around picking up after DH, it's nice to have someone who picks up after herself.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've just read the book, but I've read this about praise elsewhere also. Praise makes a child do well for external reasons (to make the parents happy) rather than for internal reasons (because it's the right thing to do). It focuses on the child's behavior. When kids think they're accepted and loved for their behavior instead of for just being them, it can cause them to wonder if they're also loved when their behavior isn't so great. That's where the term "unconditional parenting" comes from - communicating to children that they're loved unconditionally. We all love our children unconditionally -- even when they do bad things -- but they might not get that message if they're being punished when they do poorly and/or praised when they're doing well because our focus is so set on their behavior.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I don't know about "good job" being not so good. I haven't read the book. But, even a SAHM needs all hands sometimes to get stuff done. Everyone who lives in a house can share the work. Even the breadwinning Daddy can be seen doing dishes here.

My kids are older now and don't always volunteer to help, but they do help without drama when asked.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eilleen*
My thing with "good job" " good girl" etc is that it sounds so condescending. I wouldn't say it to adults, so why would I say it to children?


I wouldn't say "good girl" either but really, you wouldn't say "good job" to an adult?

Where do you work???

At my workplace this would be common (law firm). [Typical exchange: "Hey I just found a case that will defeat the other side's argument" "Hey, GOOD JOB, Man!"

As far as I am aware, not one advanced degree lawyer is insulted by it or finds it condesending. Why do you?

And by the way, there are many industrial psychologists that have strongly challenged Kohn's work, finding it scientifically inaccurate.

PLEASE do not believe that his theories are the only one's out there


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I responded in this thread but I didn't answer your question. I say, "You did it!" or in some other way describe what she did rather than pass judgement on it. "Good job" is a judgement. "You used a lot of blue in that picture!" isn't. Asking questions is good too, really just showing interest in general. "You like the color blue?" Also, telling how what the child does effects other people. "I see you cleaned up! When you clean up your toys it makes it easier for me to keep the floor clean."

I still notice myself saying, "Good job" sometimes, but I'm getting better







I really think my daughter responds best to me noticing specifics, showing that I'm really paying attention to what she's done, anyway


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Being one year out from a law degree, I can honestly say that I'd find it strange if someone said to me in my future workplace, "Good job!" Maybe that's because I've been up to my eyeballs in parenting, though, and it just seems to... weird to me. :LOL

That said, with adults I don't think throwing "Good job!" around is a big deal. I can see it being something people might say to one another when they're not in a position that would warrant elaborate, descriptive, specific praise. Or when they're in a hurry and want to express appreciation. Or when they haven't read the piles of literature that say that "Good job" doesn't really serve the purpose that everyone hopes it does.







The difference is that peers aren't specifically responsible for helping one another to negotiate the world, so specific praise is at least one step beyond where they need to go.

Personally, I don't think "Good job" on occasion is particularly harmful, but I just don't think it's ideal. It really doesn't tell your child anything except that you think they they did a good job. Why do you think it? Why is it "good"? Your child doesn't get any important information about the world (well, except that if you do certain things, other people will be happy with you which, IMO, is not one of the more important things to focus on).

When ds does something that he's obviously proud of, I celebrate with him. Big hugs, smiles, excitement, "You did it!", maybe a comment about how hard he worked to get there, that sort of thing. When he does things that are helpful to me (like cleaning up a mess or taking medicine without a 4-hour negotiation), I let him know that I appreciate it and why. I don't slobber all over him, just state it pretty matter-of-factly.

Anyway, my two cents.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

I haven't read Unconditional Parenting, nor have I read widely in GD theory, but I do admit that I say 'good job' to my kids; I also use 'good stuff' & 'great work', & when i'm being more specific 'I like the way you said.....', or 'I like those colours', or 'thank you for......' We also do a silent 'thumbs-up' in our family (introduced by a family friend, btw) if the kids have done something cool, but we defnitely don't do a corresponding thumbs down... I guess I just really mean it when I say 'good job' to them..... When they have done something well, mostly I try to make sure that they see in my eyes how happy I am for them.

And good point, Maya, about expressing praise to your workmates & friends. My goodness, the other day I clapped my hands & jumped up & down & squealed 'good stuff' to a friend of mine who had just scored the highest mark in her course for a project. I knew how hard she had worked on it, & I was so pleased to see her rewarded for her efforts.... why not celebrate verbally??


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

I have practice law for 20 years and sayng "good job" is simply not a weird thing in the workplace.

I should say that by pointing this out I was responding to a pp who said they would not say "good job" to an adult. Which to me was strange!


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I have not read the other responses ... but I try to stop myself from saying "good job" too often.

Mostly I'll say "you did it! you ______ (insert whatever he just did)"


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Well, I"m British, and I've never said "Good job" to anyone, adult or child, in my life. :LOL

In fact, I threatened to strangle anyone who said it to me during my three births, with my bare hands, quite cheerfully.







And I would have done so.

Now, do I say "Well done old chap" to my children whenever they so much as breathe? Nope, I don't do that either.......

I try to speak conversationally wiht people, and not throw around empty phrases. I think this big praise thing is very American, and it feels fake to me, so I don't have a problem not doing it. It comes more naturally to me to comment specifically. So, if dds bring me a picture, we talk about it. I don't see any need to praise them, and they don't seek praise. They seek communication, which imo goes much deeper than 'good job' - or even 'well done old bean'. :LOL :LOL


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i think for children there is a difference between praise and encouragement. i guess actually that is true for adults too. u know when a top boss comes and says good job i wonder what the heck does he know. but if he comes up to me and says 'i really liked how u responded to that clients question inspite of them being beligerent. good job.' has much more meaning to me. that to me is far more important than just a good job comment. and thats what i try to do with my dd.

with my dd i also focus on the process not the end result. esp. if she is trying hard. i wouldnt say i praise her hard work. i definitely comment on it. wow u've been working so hard on stacking ur blocks. u really want to build a tower as tall as u r dont u. maybe if u keep trying one day u will succeed.

i have learnt the hard way that what i find reason to celebrate may not be hers. and i get dirty looks. more often than not praise does not work for us. she just needs a nod or acknoledgement. i remember the first time she went potty by herself (hah it took me the longest to realise she wouldnt sit on a potty chair but prefered the ring) i really wanted to do a song and a dance routine but i just returned her triumphant smile and offered her the toilet paper and asked her if she wanted me to wipe. 'no i can do it' and since then she progressed in leaps and bounds.

many times when they accomplish something it is not a big deal as they are v. matter of fact about it. i usually bring it up later and comment on how hard she worked to succeed. yet when she first walked across the room with a full cereal bowl without spilling she had a huge triumphant smile on her face. she announced 'see mama, i did it'. yes i know sweetheart i always knew one day u could do it' and then we did a little dance together.

with situations like that it is v. difficult for me to say 'good job'. like others pointed out too shallow. that doesnt mean i dont ever use it. i have been so conditioned to it i do use it once in a while and there are times when my dd comes up to me pats my back and says good job.

i really like alfie kohns philosophy. and i agree with him and he gives me much food for thought even about the books he has written about schools. havent read unconditional parenting yet. but i already like the title for a start. parenting for me IS unconditional.


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## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

You did it.
You drew a ____ (tree, dog, cat, etc. or picture if what it is is not determinable)
Thank you for putting the dishes away.
You put on a skirt (when I am really wanting to say "why are you wearing the orange skirt and lime green and blue polka dot shirt?"







)
You found the peas.

I focus on what they did, not how they did it or why they did it. Same as with negative actions.


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## ~Nikki~ (Aug 4, 2004)

Quote:

They seek communication, which imo goes much deeper than 'good job' - or even 'well done old bean'.
Well, I have to say, even though I don't throw around the phrase "Good Job", I think I'll have to start using "Well done old bean." That's too funny. :LOL


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Nikki~*
Does he say _why_? Genuinly curious, I haven't read anything by that author.

I never would have thought that praise could have a negative impact. Is it the way the praise is delivered? Does it have something to do with it becoming "background noise" if it's over-used?

Yep, he explains in detail why praise can be a problem. I read _Punished by Rewards_ expecting to disagree with him, but he was pretty convincing. There's a short article by Kohn about reasons not to say "good job" that people are always linking to, and I had read that without being convinced, but the book goes into a lot more detail.

And the problem doesn't have much to do with the way the praise is delivered, and it definitely doesn't have to do with over-use to the point of becoming background noise. I guess if I could sum it up, I'd say that the main problems are that praise (and other rewards) often don't actually work to motivate kids in the way people expect, and that feeling judged harms kids (and praise is just as much a judgment as scolding.)


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
And by the way, there are many industrial psychologists that have strongly challenged Kohn's work, finding it scientifically inaccurate.

Do you have any references you can cite? I'd be interested in hearing the other side. His ideas about rewards in the workplace mostly made sense to me, based on my own experiences with what motivated or demotivated my coworkers and me in the workplace. Though he doesn't seem to understand (or maybe just doesn't want to talk about) the situations where operant conditioning actually works, and the best ways to make it work (like variable reinforcement schedules.)


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## twostraightlines (Aug 28, 2004)

"yet when she first walked across the room with a full cereal bowl without spilling she had a huge triumphant smile on her face. she announced 'see mama, i did it'. yes i know sweetheart i always knew one day u could do it' and then we did a little dance together."

Wow, that sums up the joy of parenting right there







! That's like a beautiful poem.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
Do you have any references you can cite? I'd be interested in hearing the other side. His ideas about rewards in the workplace mostly made sense to me, based on my own experiences with what motivated or demotivated my coworkers and me in the workplace. Though he doesn't seem to understand (or maybe just doesn't want to talk about) the situations where operant conditioning actually works, and the best ways to make it work (like variable reinforcement schedules.)


I e-mailed my SIl who is getting her PHD in industrial psych. She metioned a book called "Rewards and Instrinsic Motivation: Resolving the Contraversy" by Cameron and Pierce. I don't have any sort of link. She says it is a scholaly work that takes apart much of Kohn's work and theories.


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## Alexander (Nov 22, 2001)

I might say

"cool! give me a kiss!"

But only if it is extrordinary, or they are looking for interaction.

I'm with British Mum on this (as usual!)

a


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

:


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## YankeeMomInVA (Mar 30, 2005)

I rarely say "good job" because it is such an empty phrase...I know my mom used to say that to me all the time when I was younger and I always felt like saying back to her, "Yeah...right..." Because it was such a generic thing to say....it showed me that she really wasn't thinking about whatever it was that I had done to warrant praise...

When ds helps me empty the dishwasher I'll tell him, "You have been such a good helper with the dishwasher today!" or when he puts his toys away after playing with them I'll say, "See how much more room you have to run around and play when you put your toys away when you are finished with them? Isn't this fun?" And he usually looks up at me and grins and runs around in the open space


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## amybw (Jul 12, 2004)

i have been paying a little more attention to what i say since reading this post.

I also say "That was a good choice! You chose to not throw the blocks!"
or "Yes, that's the right way to use your fork. Thank you for not throwing your peas. That keeps the floor clean."

I talk about right and wrong and choices.

I dont want DH to think i dont want him to do something (throwing food) because it incoveniences me ( i have to clean it up) but that there is a real and practical reason to not throw food :LOL Yes I overanalyze !

Is this a wrong choice for me to be doing? :LOL
thanks!









Amy


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## Eilleen (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I should say that by pointing this out I was responding to a pp who said they would not say "good job" to an adult. Which to me was strange!

Guess that's where cultural differences are - I'm in Australia and have worked in senior management roles. I would never say "good job" to an adult - whether its in the workplace or in my personal life. If a colleague got a great result - I would say "congratulations! I know that was what you were hoping for." If a friend of mine achieved say, high marks then again congratulations are in order.

Back to parents saying "good job".... it does imply that they (adults or children) have met a particular standard that we have set. It is, therefore, conditional praise. Saying "congratulations" or "thank you" acknowledges their actions and achievements without implying they've met some standard of mine.

So when DD helps me wash the dishes - I say "thank you", when she masters a particular activity she's been working on, I say "congratulations".


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I e-mailed my SIl who is getting her PHD in industrial psych. She metioned a book called "Rewards and Instrinsic Motivation: Resolving the Contraversy" by Cameron and Pierce. I don't have any sort of link. She says it is a scholaly work that takes apart much of Kohn's work and theories.

Thanks! I did a bit of internet research based on this info, and it appears that there is a big controversy in this field, with the researchers Kohn cites on one side and the authors of the above book on the other side. Apparently everyone on both sides agrees that there are conditions where rewards reduce intrinsic motivation and/or creativity. The controversy is over how likely those conditions are to occur and how easy it is to avoid them. Both sides also seem to agree that, at least in some situations, rewards can be given without reducing intrinsic motivation.

It would be interesting to read more about this, but as far as I can see, the take-home message for us parents is that rewards CAN be harmful if they're the wrong kind of rewards or given in the wrong way, and (given that figuring out the right way to reward is something that psychologists are devoting their whole careers to, and arguing vehemently about) parents who try to encourage certain behaviors through rewards are quite likely to do it in an ineffective way.


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

~Nikki~ said:


> I grew up in a house where I was pretty much ignored when I did "good" things, because I was just expected to do them. So if I went out of my way to do the dishes without being asked, the accomplishment went ignored. All this did was made the negative comments stand out more. I was _never_ ignored if I spilled a drink, or forgot to make my bed. I always felt that it wouldn't have been such a big deal to get in trouble when I slacked, if I was only noticed when I made an effort to help out. I feel the same way now that I'm an adult. For once, I'd love DH to come home and say "Wow, the house looks great! Thanks for cleaning up. Good job!" But maybe I'm just praise deficient. :LOL
> QUOTE]
> 
> I know exactly what you are talking about! Except that my DH does praise me for doing a great job at home! That is if I do something that day! lol


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
Thanks! I did a bit of internet research based on this info, and it appears that there is a big controversy in this field, with the researchers Kohn cites on one side and the authors of the above book on the other side. Apparently everyone on both sides agrees that there are conditions where rewards reduce intrinsic motivation and/or creativity.


Yes, and I personally believe that saying "Good Job" to a child is NOT one of those things. I however beleive that rewards at home (vs praise) are a BAD idea. Work life however is something else.

I think it IS important for parents here to understand that Kohn is not the "be all and end all" on this. He has a THEORY. It is not fact or proven. There are many studies which show him wrong.

I think being too quick to eliminate heartfelt praise for a child is a mistake.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya44*
I think being too quick to eliminate heartfelt praise for a child is a mistake.










I think that "*heartfelt praise*" is the key idea here. No one likes to hear insincere praise, and kids can tell when you're sincere and when you're just trying to manipulate them with your praise, yk? I don't think genuine, warm, heartfelt praise is harmful regardless of the words you choose.

And perhaps it really depends on the individual child and the individual situation that child is in. Sometimes my oldest does not want any comments on what she's done-it's private and she doesn't want even a "you did it" from any of us external sources. And sometimes she loves feedback of whatever sort.


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## armonia (Mar 24, 2002)

I went to a seminar recently and this was discussed.

The dr. that was speaking said it is better to say something like "You are such a hard worker" rather than "You are so smart". If you tell a child they are smart, they will worry that they will let you down if they make a mistake and have a fear of failure. If you tell them they are a hard worker, they will work harder at a task rather than give up from fear of failure.

I do sometimes tell my daughter "Good job" but I am working more on saying "you are a such a hard worker" or identifying specifically what she is good at, rather than using "good job" to encompass everything.

She also talked about praising a person's character and how a person's character trait affects you. She made us write a letter. I wrote one to my daughter telling her that she is so loving and how that has helped me when I am sad. I gave specific examples and then read it to my daughter when I got home. She is only 4, but she loved it.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

Quote:

I dont want DH to think i dont want him to do something (throwing food) because it incoveniences me ( i have to clean it up) but that there is a real and practical reason to not throw food Yes I overanalyze !
Your DH is throwing food? you poor thing! :LOL :LOL


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I see some merit to the arguments against "Good job!" but I have been having a hard time eliminating it in some contexts. Maybe someone can suggest a different phrase? Specifically, I want to notice it and reinforce it when DD (16 months) follows some of our few (probably very arbitrary-seeming) "rules" for her--eg:

We don't bring sticks inside. (Trust me--the house would look like a beaver dam if we did.)

No sticks on the swing. (After an unfortunate eye-poking incident.)

Don't touch the kitty. (Even when he seems to be enticing you to!)

No street. The street is not for babies; it is for cars.

She understands these rules and is getting very good about putting down the stick, stopping at the edge of the lawn, etc. I do say "Good job!" when I see that she is thinking about the situation and deciding to do as we have asked. She obviously knows it is praise and seems to respond to it. I am not sure what else I could say. I do want to continue to reinforce her following these few rules.

"Thank you for not running in the street?" Ennnh.
"You dropped your stick!" Ennnh.
"You did it!" ("I did what?")


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## armonia (Mar 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Maybe someone can suggest a different phrase? Specifically, I want to notice it and reinforce it when DD (16 months) follows some of our few (probably very arbitrary-seeming) "rules" for her--eg:

We don't bring sticks inside. (Trust me--the house would look like a beaver dam if we did.)

No sticks on the swing. (After an unfortunate eye-poking incident.)

Don't touch the kitty. (Even when he seems to be enticing you to!)

No street. The street is not for babies; it is for cars.


Some suggestions:

You are such a good listener.

I am proud of you for listening to mama (or for not touching the cat, etc.)


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## twostraightlines (Aug 28, 2004)

I am the OP, and I 've had a chance to think this over some more since I posted. I have found it hard to cut out "good job!" entirely, so this is how I am modifying it. When I say "good job" out of habit, I try to elaborate next..."you pet the cat gently"..."you didn't throw the blocks," etc. I think it is important to communicate what specifically the child did, but I also think that at 17 months, my son gets understands "good job" more than "thank you for sharing that is so generous of you."


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## armonia (Mar 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twostraightlines*
I think it is important to communicate what specifically the child did, but I also think that at 17 months, my son gets understands "good job" more than "thank you for sharing that is so generous of you."

I agree. "Good job" has its time and place and I see nothing wrong with it really.

I just re-read my previous post and realized the PP was asking advice about a 16 month old, so I guess my suggestions really don't make sense because of a young childs ability to comprehend.


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## sagira (Mar 8, 2003)

I used to say (and still say) "Yay!" and now ds says "Yay!" when he's satisfied about something and has accomplished something for himself. Also when he's happy (it's really cute!







)


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## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
We don't bring sticks inside. (Trust me--the house would look like a beaver dam if we did.)
No sticks on the swing. (After an unfortunate eye-poking incident.)
Don't touch the kitty. (Even when he seems to be enticing you to!)
No street. The street is not for babies; it is for cars.

Thanks for leaving the stick outside.
You left the stick outside this time. Thanks.
You remembered no sticks on the swing.

You remembered the rule about the street.
You stayed out of the street.
You stayed in the yard,.

Aside from the street issue I am not sure any of these things _need_ any comment. The only reason I would comment on the street is because it is so important from a safety issue. It needs extra reinforcement.

I would only comment to show I noticed an action, not to praise the remembering. A short Thank you also lets them know you noticed. They want to be validated that they did the right thing since they are learning. By you noticing and not correcting, you are validating them. They gain a feeling of accomplishment from their achievement, not your praise.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Hmmm...I'm not sure I see why a pleased "Thank you" is that much different than a "Good job." I mean, my DD does not know the actual meaning of "good job." It is a phrase I say while smiling and using a positive tone when she does these things. If I used "Thank you" the same way--what is the difference? (Remembering that she is 16 months, of course.) I do say "Thank you" to her in other contexts. She probably perceives as a "rewarding" phrase.

I do want to comment on them because commenting on them has seemed to result in her remembering to do them. I think my feeling is that in the case of something like kicking a ball or building a block tower, the child's natural satisfaction is reward in itself, so an external "reward" is excessive. Yet in this case, I feel like some kind of positive message is needed, because she has no intrinsic motivation to leave sticks outside.

Does that make sense? (I know some people are very anti-"reward." I don't go that far.)


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## pippet (Aug 14, 2004)

I love praising my kids along with them (I don't always wait for them to look for my approval and then give it but I unabashadly jump in when they are excited at what they do). I will continue to jump and down with my kids in excitement for the new things they learn and wish that we could all maintain such enthusiasm as we mature and grow older. I support my "good job" "way to go" "you did it"'s with all the reinforcements that others mentioned in this thread but no way am I interested in the enthusiastic hoorays that I give openly to my children.

Perhaps the reward system is overboard in our culture - we overindulge on chocolate cake because we feel we've earned it by 'being good' - absolutely there's a case for moderation in not praising every little thing. But there's also elements that I don't see as 'bad' in it either. If I want a swing for my backyard - I save my money and appropriate my behavior to get it as a reward for my efforts - then I take pride in my accomplishment and discipline to do so. If I want to fit into a bikini after birthing 2 big babies, I adjust my patterns to meet that goal and in the end have that reward for which I am satisfied. I can see where it wouldn't be ideal in everyone's eyes. But for me I just don't see how it's all that damaging and know that in myself and my kids it just feels good to not only have the unconditional more subtle and continuous support and encouragement but also to have the over the top, let's celebrate fanfare.

I think he makes a good point on overexcess but in general I'm with the one pp that thinks it's too extreme and he's out to lunch.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

an interesting thread as always. i have a 4 yr old and an 18 mo old. i do say "good job" sometimes, but i'm trying to be more specific. in regard to what to say to a toddler instead, i think (enthusiastically) noticing is plenty. with the stick and street examples. i would probably just repeat the rule "sticks stay outside. that's right. thanks." and "the street is for cars not babies. babies play in the grass." or "babies hold mommy's hand in the street." add a "that's right" or "good job" if you feel compelled. i just repeat our rules "draw on paper. thanks," and validate what she does, "you pee peed in the potty!"

i, too, have never heard "good job" in the workplace and i'm 41. maybe it's regional. i also had the same kind of feeling as britishmum about what i'd do to people if i heard it during labor, too. i don't ever say it to adults. i do say "thanks" or "good catch", but not "good job" unless it just creeps over from having said it with the kids







:.


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## Simply Nurtured (Nov 6, 2004)

I no longer have toddlers, but I have always used mindful and specific praise, like other people have stated. I still do. And for other people's children as well.

Examples:

"You really enjoy helping to cook."

"You are a great assistant chef".

"I really like what you built, and you did it yourself."

"Thank you, that was very polite."

"That was very nice of you."

I think everyone has their own ways of handling it. My DH related a very cute experience to me last night. He was at work and a member was there with her grandchild. The little girl is 2 and 1/2. He said hello to them and the little girl very excitedly blurted out to him - "GUESS WHAT?!? I went poopy and peepee in the potty, I am a big girl now!" The grandmother was mortified, but my DH smiled and mirrored her by saying that she certainly was a big girl. He told the grandmother he could not wait to tell his wife who would appreciate such an adorable story.

Everyone likes to get a compliment or a little pat on the back sometimes.


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## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

I do not say thank you in the same voice I would say good job. A brief "Thanks" or "Thank you for leaving the stick outside" is in a mater of fact voice, not the giddy voice of praise.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Hmmm...I'm not sure I see why a pleased "Thank you" is that much different than a "Good job."

I don't think there is any difference, if you use the same tone of voice and facial expressions for both. The way I say "thanks" (or "good job," for that matter) is more likely to be the way mpeel describes it - so it's not much of a reward; it just provides a bit of information: "You did something that seemed good or useful to me."

Quote:

I do want to comment on them because commenting on them has seemed to result in her remembering to do them. I think my feeling is that in the case of something like kicking a ball or building a block tower, the child's natural satisfaction is reward in itself, so an external "reward" is excessive. Yet in this case, I feel like some kind of positive message is needed, because she has no intrinsic motivation to leave sticks outside.
I think that's reasonable. This is the kind of thing Alfie Kohn doesn't talk about, but probably ought to: situations where maybe rewards do make sense, because the child can't reasonably be expected to have any intrinsic motivation to perform the behavior, and/or because the child is too young to understand the reasoning behind your rules.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Thanks focuses on how it effects you, while good job focuses on the behavior. If you say you're thankful for something that was done, he learns that certain behaviors are helpful to others. If you say "good job" he learns that sometimes he's good, which means of course that sometimes he's bad. "Thank you" isn't a direct value judgement.


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## sbmama (Jan 8, 2004)

Just joining in....my apologies if my thoughts are redundant of previous posts.

I believe sincerity is the key when it comes to praise. My dh and I make a concerted effort at home to be sincere in our responses to ds, and specific about the words we choose and the behaviors we acknowledge or just let occur (e.g. learning a new skill vs. doing some routine activity like climbing the stairs). The reality is that my son hears "good job" all the time from other parents at the playground who use it regularly with their kids, from the grandparents, and from our friends with and without children who aren't sure what else to say to him when they visit ( I liken this to people feeling compelled to comment about something about the child, like their shoes, when they meet them -- it's a miracle every child doesn't grow up confused about why everyone is so interested in his/her shoes!). "Good job" is filler in conversation, and it strikes me as funny that a conversation with my child, who really isn't participating due to his lack of speaking skills at 17 months, even needs to be occuring. If people must praise someone during the visit, praise me on my extraordinary parenting skills. :LOL

Just my two cents...

Heidi


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## mpeel (Nov 20, 2001)

I was reading at lunch yesterday about praise and "noticing". Basically, the author said praise is judging. You are judging your child. Noticing helps your child become aware of themselves. Judging helps them become aware of how you fell about them. When they are aware of themselves, they are better able to be self-controlled.


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