# Car seat installation with only a lapbelt?



## EmilyVorpe (Apr 26, 2007)

We are trying to find a new minivan before #5 is born in July. DS1 is small so still in a harness (he weighs 43, will probably weigh 45 by next summer and age 7). DD1 and DD2 will 10000% still be in harnesses, as will DS2, age 1.5.
My husband is trying to tell me we have to get a full size van or conversion van to fit everyone because all the van we are finding have a lap belt only for the middle back seat. 

I have a hard time parking my minivan. I will NEVER be able to park a bigger van. Im trying to find a minivan that will fit 5 carseats without having to remove a carseat every time to get into the back.

Can you install any carseats with just a lap belt? how?


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

I believe as long as it's not a booster lap belt is perfectly fine. The problem you might run into however is when they are all out of harness, as lap belts are not safe for booster use, nor do most safety experts like them for adults. But that's a few years down the road for you, so I wouldn't worry about that yet.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

What kind of mini-van do you have? I have a 2002 Mazda MPV and recently installed a Cosco Scenera RF in the middle of my third row which only has a lap belt. I used the locking clip that comes with the seat and got a very solid install. My only concern is what mini-van you have and what carseats to see if you can get three across in the third row.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

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> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
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> What kind of mini-van do you have? I have a 2002 Mazda MPV and recently installed a Cosco Scenera RF in the middle of my third row which only has a lap belt. I used the locking clip that comes with the seat and got a very solid install. My only concern is what mini-van you have and what carseats to see if you can get three across in the third row.


 You CAN NOT use a locking clip with a lap only belt.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

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> Originally Posted by *DahliaRW*
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The H-shaped clip that is stored on the back of the seat? I was under the impression that it was for just that type of situation.


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## Farmer'sWife (Jul 11, 2009)

Check out the manuals that came with your current seats, I'm pretty sure all carseats can be installed with just a lap belt. I'm with you, I wouldn't want to drive a full size van unless absolutly necessary! As for getting all 5 carseats in, I'd look at the 8 passenger Siennas where you could put a child on the 2nd row middle seat and remove an outboard 2nd row captians chair for access to the back. Odyessy's also let you move one captain's chair over to the middle to allow 3rd row access. GL and congrats on #5!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

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> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
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No.

Locking clips are only for use with lap/shoulder belts. If you have a non-locking lap belt, you must use a belt shortening clip, which is available through the vehicle dealersghip and is a much more complicated procedure than a locking clip. A regular locking clip can *never* be used on a lap-only belt under any circumstances.

However, in a 2002 vehicle the belts lock. You don't need a locking clip.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

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> Originally Posted by *chickabiddy*
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The lap-only belt locks? Where exactly does it lock? What does the belt shortening clip look like?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

All cars made since 1996 must have locking belts. I am not familiar with your vehicle; you need to check the owners' manual.

A belt-shortening clip looks like a locking clip, but it is much larger and used differently. It is difficult to use. It's the hardest part of the CPST training: IME, more techs failed on that than any other part of the practical exam. I suggest you find a CPST to teach you how to use it properly.

But again, your belts must lock. It's the law. If they don't, they are defective and the dealership should replace them.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

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> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
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 Do you have a lap belt with a tail to pull to tighten it? If yes, that is what keeps it tight. It does not automatically loosen when you pull on the belt part like a non-locked lap/shoulder belt can. If your car is post 1996, then you do not have the lap belt that needs a belt shortening clip.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

It's only a very few, very old cars that have lap belts that don't lock. And those are only ones with a sewn-on latchplate-- any lap belt that has a "tail" locks, and since the the very early 90's, all of those with a sewn-on latchplate have an ALR (automatic locking retractor).


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