# When did you FF your carseat?



## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Just to add more guilt to my situation describe in my previous post...when did you turn the carseat FF? I would love to hear from moms of babies who hated the carseat.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Dd is over 3 yrs and still RF. I wouldn't turn a child under 2 who met the limits for the seat unless there were an extraordinary health issue.

-Angela


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

I turned DS's when he was 14 months. He weighed 28lbs and the problem was it was over 100 degrees and our volvo didnt have air conditioning vents. He got extremely hot and a heat rash and we had to turn him FF so he could get the a/c. I thought he'd have a heat stroke. But now we just bought a new car and he's back to RF.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I just did it a few weeks ago and DS turned two August 3rd. We have the Britax Marathon and the weight limit is 33 pounds. DS is really big for his age -- I wanted him to RF for a lot longer! -- but he's now over 33 pounds.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

nak twelve mos with the last two, but I didn't know any better.







:
I'm planning much longer with this one...


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

DD is still rearfacing at 25 months.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Still RF here at 20 mos.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Dd is over 3 yrs and still RF. I wouldn't turn a child under 2 who met the limits for the seat unless there were an extraordinary health issue.

-Angela

As stated I'm looking for responses from moms who have children who do not do well in the car...and I don't mean just a bit fussy.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
Just to add more guilt to my situation describe in my previous post...when did you turn the carseat FF? I would love to hear from moms of babies who hated the carseat.

I voted "at one year" because you asked to hear from moms of carseat hating babies. My first was one of those, and I turned him on his birthday, and he was much happier. However, I didn't know what I know now about the safety of rear facing vs forward facing - I might have waited longer, or I might have done the same thing.

My later children were turned at 18 months (DD, when she reached the rearfacing limit of the seat) and 2+ (DS2 who is 26 months and will be rearfacing until he reaches the limit of his seat.)


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

DD1 was turned around when she hit 20 lbs, sometime around 1.5y, too early.







DD2 is 13m and 2 year is my min to turn her around, I'm sure it will be quite a bit longer then that.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
I might have waited longer, or I might have done the same thing.


Just to be clear, the reason I might have done the same thing, is that I was a distracted driver for an entire year after DS was born. I had to drive one handed most of the time, because he needed my finger in his mouth or caressing his face. I even got in a fender bender when he was 6 weeks old - my fault, because I was responding to hlis cries and didn't stop completely enough at a red light and rearended the car in front of me. It really wasn't safe, especially since he was also a non-sleeping baby and I was driving sleep deprived. I don't know if it was safer for him to forward face with a lower chance of me actually having an accident, or rear face with a higher chance of and accident. And facing him forward really did help his car disposition exponentially - and when he did get upset, I was able to tend to him more easily from the front seat, since I didn't have to contort my body to reach him while somehow still keeping my eyes on the road.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

around 19/20mths. We tryed for as long as we could to not do it, but it just kept escalating and we were driving around without him in the seat at all because i had to calm him down. We turned it, and he now tolerates it a bit more. We are looking into getting a newer one that he picks out so that might make him more tolerant of it.

he used to hold his breath, hyperventalarte, pull at the chest clip until his hands were bleeding, scream so loud and shrill it was becoming to distracting and dangerous for my dh to drive. I sit in the backseat with him all the time, we tryed everything we could, special toys (they just got thrown at us), mr click, music, simply just forcing him into it, it used to take me AND dh to hold ds down and i would quickly fasten the crotch clip then the chest slip before ds could contort his way out of it. I have had bruised on my arms from where ds pinched and bit me as i was putting him in the seat.

now that its foward facing, he will either climb into it himself, or if I ask, he waits for you to put him in and helps you do it up, sometimes he still fights, but not as hard and once strapped in he no longer pulls at the chest clip hurting his hands.


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## pbjmama (Sep 20, 2007)

I turned DS just before 18 months at 31 lbs. He had a really hard time up until about a year but then it seemed to get better - still not great but a big improvement. So then I kept him rf until he hit 31 lbs, our seat has a 33 lb limit so I figured clothes+diaper+shoes= close to 33 lbs total.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Just to be clear, the reason I might have done the same thing, is that I was a distracted driver for an entire year after DS was born. I had to drive one handed most of the time, because he needed my finger in his mouth or caressing his face. I even got in a fender bender when he was 6 weeks old - my fault, because I was responding to hlis cries and didn't stop completely enough at a red light and rearended the car in front of me. It really wasn't safe, especially since he was also a non-sleeping baby and I was driving sleep deprived. I don't know if it was safer for him to forward face with a lower chance of me actually having an accident, or rear face with a higher chance of and accident. And facing him forward really did help his car disposition exponentially - and when he did get upset, I was able to tend to him more easily from the front seat, since I didn't have to contort my body to reach him while somehow still keeping my eyes on the road.

Thank you for posting this b/c this is my exact situation...over the past three weeks, my son has turned me into a one-handed driver...his BLVD in is the middle spot of our Forrester and it is a huge carseat so it is very difficult for me to actually get my hand over the top of it to even reach his cheek or hold his hand...add to it that I am 5+ months PG and my growing belly is limiting my ability to do this even more. I'm at a crossroads. I swore I wouldn't turn him FF until at least 2...I know the stats...I lost my mother to car accident when I was 10, so my fear of accidents is real...but I'm wondering which is the greater danger...him being FF or the way I have to drive while he is RF. I drive with him daily 40 minutes to/from work each way. It is a windy mountainous road and now it is winter here in NY.

I'm very interested in what moms with diffucult passengers chose to do when toys, mirrors, songs, food, and all else failed.

This has only been a problem for the past 3+ weeks since he became mobile himself...he just doesn't want to be confined. Before then he was content and usually slept in the car...it actually used to be something I did to get quiet time. Now it is a living hell and I drive in fear and full of anxiety everyday.

Two months ago before I returned to work I was very confident, smugly so, that my child would be RF until he could drive himself. Now I am desperate for a solution.

I am not talking about a child who is just a bit fussy in the car...it is a ride from hell.

Thanks to the moms of diffucult passengers for responding. I apologize for ever judging you in the past!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
As stated I'm looking for responses from moms who have children who do not do well in the car...and I don't mean just a bit fussy.

It's a safety issue as far as I'm concerned. I would no more turn them around at 12 months than 9. Just like I would not consider letting them ride without a 5pt harness while there's still one that fits or without a booster if they need one.

I would try different carseats and distractions, but no matter how unhappy I don't think I'd turn under 2 unless I had to due to limits.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
This has only been a problem for the past 3+ weeks since he became mobile himself...he just doesn't want to be confined. Before then he was content and usually slept in the car...it actually used to be something I did to get quiet time. Now it is a living hell and I drive in fear and full of anxiety everyday.

If it is that new of a problem I would definitely wait longer. So many things change so quickly at that age.










Good luck!

-Angela


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

I didn't see the previous post (I don't think), but I voted "over 2 years" b/c dd is 2.5 and we are nowhere near turning the Marathon FF. She is petite and only weighs 24 lbs. She will probably still be RF at 3 yo!

Oh dear, just read on past.









It's hard when a babe hates the carseat. I have thoughts but have to go, back in a while.

Edit (just came back):

I don't know how old your baby is, but things that have helped in the past - I was just talking to someone today about how much Nora used to hate being in the carseat. FWIW, I'm not sure FF would help, if you are considering that. (But if your child is 1 year + 20 lbs. and NOTHING else works, you could try it - you obviously know it's not as safe all things being equal, but I know that a non-screaming child could possibly make the car ride safer overall than a screaming child).

--baby is probably too old for this, but REALLY loud white noise (static) on the radio

--a big bucket of interesting toys and books in the front seat which you toss back as needed. We used to have, like, 20 toys at a time ready to go.







We'd use 'em all, too, sometimes in a 20 minute drive!

--let baby hold something normally forbidden, like the cell phone (turn off first?)

--obviously only when possible, one parent drives & one parent sits in the back.

--singing really really loud / CDs. try all different kinds of music. try talk radio. try NPR. something might catch his attention.









--mirror with blinky lights and music that you control by remote control, made by Fisher Price. If you want I can find a link to it. I think they sell it on Amazon.

Best of luck.

Another edit: if this is a "new" problem, it will most likely be relatively short-lived. I hope so!


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

liam was 18 months. Quinn is 19 months now, still rf, no plans to ff him anytime soon. He used to really hate the carseat too, but he's fine with it now.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

(Ducking the crunchy tomatoes) . . .but is there any way to install a car DVD player so that it can be seen by a rearfacing child? And would something like that help your son? I think it would have helped mine if we had had something like that. I don't think TV is great for a one year old, but I think it's better than forward facing early or screaming so much that you are in danger of an accident. I know nothign about the technology, so I don't know if it's even possible to set one up that way, or how cost prohibitive it might be. Just brainstorming for you.


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## kibba (Oct 11, 2005)

My daughter is only 11 months but she to HATES her seat! REALLY HATES IT! Screams like crazy in it, always has. We've tried diff seats and it doesnt matter. We still plan to keep her rf for a good while. I have found having a small bag of distractions works wonders. I will hold something infront of her and she focuses on taking that instead of fighting getting buckled in. I also let her have a snack trap cup with food in it, sippy cup of watered down juice (these two things are only for when in the car, a special treat...) all that together helps. She still fights it like crazy and honestly some days I just stay home to avoid the issues


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## fawny (Jul 25, 2007)

My daughter is a VERY inconsolable screamer in her carseat... it's almost like someone is pulling her legs off and burning her with a torch back there. It brings me to tears every time she gets like that, and makes it VERY dangerous for me to drive because I am so distracted.... I am pretty sure I am going to forward face her when she's 1 years old if her attitude in the car doesn't change by then....







:


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## joy2bmom (Aug 3, 2006)

my first dd i turned FF at about 12months old,







: at the time i thought it was the right thing to do cuz we were riding down the road one day and she started to choke and i couldn't see her i could only hear her, scared me to death so i turned her that evening. Second dd was turned FF at 15months cuz she screamed her head off when she was RF and i felt bad for her so i turned her. At the time i really thought "everyone" did that. My best friend turned her ds at 10months and at the time i didn't bat an eye


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kibba* 
My daughter is only 11 months but she to HATES her seat! REALLY HATES IT! Screams like crazy in it, always has. We've tried diff seats and it doesnt matter. We still plan to keep her rf for a good while. I have found having a small bag of distractions works wonders. I will hold something infront of her and she focuses on taking that instead of fighting getting buckled in. I also let her have a snack trap cup with food in it, sippy cup of watered down juice (these two things are only for when in the car, a special treat...) all that together helps. She still fights it like crazy and honestly some days I just stay home to avoid the issues









I've tried the all the typical distractions. I can get him in the seat fine. He is fine for the first 5 minutes max. Then he realizes he is stuck and he wants to walk around and all hell breaks loose. He screams and cries and I am so against CIO in addition to just not having the tolerance for his cries...it is like nails on a chalkboard to me...it tenses me up and gets me very anxious...I find myself visually distracted almost blinded when he cries. That is why I am so concerned about the problem...my attention is not on the road. Add to that, that my arm is stretched over the seat to hold his hand and stroke his face, I'm driving with one hand on the wheel.

Staying home is not an option. I have to work. I've been on maternity leave for 10 months and will back on maternity leave again for our surprise April baby. So I need to work for these 4 months.

As for the DVD player...my DH brought it up. I cringe at the thought but I do understand that a DVD is better than FF. However, I had swore he would never watch TV either but I have yet to figure out how to get ready for work in the morning w/o out a quick 20-30 minute video...which is discussed in my original post...

I'm just afraid of what to do come snow fall. I can't drive on a curvy snowy road with one hand and a distracted mindset.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

I had a DD who would NOT sit happily in a RF car seat for even one single minute. When she was about 16mo, we turned her to FF, and it was possible to have her sitting occasionally for short periods without her screaming hysterically.

it was a nightmare, and I avoided the car like mad - to the point where I would sometimes walk up to 10 miles around town in a day with her. but sometimes... well, everytime we wanted to visit our family, which was every week or 2, (20 mi away) we had to get in the car. I basically couldnt drive. I had to sit in the back with DD and twist my back to chinese contortionist proportions to keep my boob in her mouth while staying in my seat belt and keeping her in hers, FF.

this was a HUGE improvement over the RF, but still nightmarish. Many times we would just stop the car and try to calm her, sometimes this would take up to an hour. I lived in terror. I guess some mothers on here can relate.

eclipse, (sorry, I'm all fresh out of tomatoes, can I throw flowers?) I think that's a great idea... I wonder if you could strap a dvd player onto one of those plastic bars you can get to stick on the car seat or stroller that have hangy toys on them. I dont know what that thing's called. wait... I'll google it... um, cant find one, I hope you know what I mean. actually, why not just duct tape it to the celing, or the head rest of the seat? My DD's DVD player has a special strap thing that attaches it to the back of the seat headrest in front, so why not attach it to the back seat headrest?

honestly, in cars, anything that gets the kids sitting happily in their seatbelts is a good thing


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

With DS1 he was 20 lbs so about 1.5 years. Now that I know better DS2 is still RF at 2.5 and will be until 35 lbs (he'll probably be 4 before that happens)


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## eunytuny (Jan 19, 2007)

:b lush

My son would cry so hard in the car seat he would throw up, sometimes stop breathing. I couldn't stand it so I turned him FF at 8 months. He is now 13 months.































My husband loves that he is FF and I don't know the statistics but I don't think he'd care (husband). I just couldn't take the uncontrollable tantrums at 8 months old!!!.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
I would love to hear from moms of babies who hated the carseat.

<waving> Hello! My daughter screamed her head off in the carseat almost from day one...I actually think it was around three weeks when she started the car-crying. She also was not born a car-sleeper; I can honestly say that past 6 weeks old or so she never once fell asleep in the car for her entire first year+ of life. So I feel your pain.

Fast forward to now: she finally came around to taking a sort of Zen approach to the car seat and some days almost seems to like it. The magical age for her was about 14 or 15 months, when she could ride for 20 to 30 minutes without losing it. She takes her special blanket in the car with her and has access to her binky which started helping around that age.

To answer your poll, she's 26 months and still rear-facing. She's getting up towards the top weight on her Marathon but I'm hoping she lasts through the icy season. I did not turn her at a year, despite the fact that she was still protesting strongly; you really can't be at all sure that FF will help the crying and the increased risk isn't worth it IMO.


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

I turned dd at 13 months because my MIL and SIL kept questioning me about when I was going to do it. That's a very dumb reason, but I also figured she was ready.

Ds just turned 1 y.o. and I'll keep him rf until he's at the weight limit (30 lbs) or till his head is within 1 inch of the top of the seat. I'm pretty sure he'll outgrow the height before the weight, though.

Ds also is not crazy about riding in the car, but it's not nearly as bad as some of you describe. Holding the remote for the car doors really keeps him happy for a long time. I only give it to him when he's fussy in the car, so it's "special."


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

just another notch on the side of going car-free.
while necessary for safety, carseats just arent really attachment parenting.
sigh.
I'm so glad my DD finally accepted her car seat, and now in her booster she freaks out hysterically if she's not in her seatbelt


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

I've just read the other responses...

I have used a DVD player a few times on longer trips with my DD rear-facing. I have a strappy-type case that secures to the headrests, but I found that I couldn't use it as is on the backseat headrests because DD could reach out and touch it (which for her was a problem, YMMV if your todler follows directions better or isn't a grab-er by nature.)

What I did to be sure that it was both out of reach and secure in case of an accident was use short bungee cords with locking carabiner clips to suspend the DVD player's case between the LATCH tether anchors (which you can be sure won't come loose) in the rear window. It worked really well. One minor safety hazard is that the driver can see the movie in the rear-view, so you have to be sure you're not watching the movie instead of the road. I would bet it's more managable and less distracting that the screaming baby, at least.


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## baggybears (Oct 10, 2007)

I know that this will probably generate lots of "thats not safe replies!" but we actually turned our daughter FF at 9 months. We took a twenty hour car trip from he** that involved screaming for at least 8 hours at a time. Couldn't make her stop crying for anything. After that trip she would have hysterics every time she went in her seat. She's an extremely social baby and I think she just wanted to be able to see and visit more. She is also a very big strong baby, and met the height/weight restrictions for turning a baby forward at about 4 months, and at 9 months her knees were bent in her RF seat. I wouldn't reccomend this for every child, but it worked for us.


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## jillian+1 (Aug 30, 2007)

I haven't had any trouble with the car seat yet







: but I just wanted to point out a couple of things:

First of all, there are health issues associated with crying which all of us that oppose CIO should be familiar with. It's worth thinking about this risk in the context of all the risks we face every day, including car accidents.

Also, the risks associated with an accident due to a distracted driver affect the child but also the mother and all the other people on the road, which is not really a risk that you have a right to take, imo. That's like going on the road after a couple of drinks. Of course I am not judging you poor mamas (I am in no position to do so)!! And I certainly don't want to create more anxiety where there is plenty already!!







I'm just saying that we have to think about the risk to _others_ of driving while distracted and factor that into a larger decision about when to turn the carseat.

GL to all who have to make this tricky decision.


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
If it is that new of a problem I would definitely wait longer. So many things change so quickly at that age.










Good luck!

-Angela

Can you really really not see the greater danger here? My baby crying makes me nuts. I get shakey and I want only to make him feel okay. Trying to pay attention to the road while he's screaming his head off would be a far greater risk than forward facing if it's within the limits of the seat. It's the difference between a possible injury IF there is an accident and pretty much guaranteeing an accident on the winding winter roads in NY. Shrugging and saying 'it'll change soon' is really insensitive.

I have a 7 1/5 month old car hater so I can do nothing right now with the seat. Thankfully I can ride with him in the back and nurse him until he can turn 'off'. He's not asleep when he does this, he's just so upset that he dissociates while in the carseat.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

:


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

DS2 hated carseats but he got over it when he was about 6 months or so.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
Can you really really not see the greater danger here?...Shrugging and saying 'it'll change soon' is really insensitive.

Maybe alegna's looking at it from the perspective of:
If she was in an accident with her crying rear facing baby now (like rear-ending someone or something), chances are he would be fine, because he's rear facing. It's THAT safe. But if her child is forward facing, an accident as minor as a 10mph collision could internally decapitate that child, killing him immediately. I think it's less her being insensitive and more her realizing the vulnerability of the child's neck/spine.

No matter how much my child cried, day in and day out, I would NOT let him play in the street. I would NOT let him jump off the roof. I would NOT let him stand in the rollercoaster ride. There are some things that are always safer options, and rear facing is always the safer option - for the child.

And yeah - CIO sucks in the car. But sometimes you've got to allow it for the greater good of the child's safety. Mom can get earmuffs.









*To the OP - how reclined is the seat? Perhaps things would be better if he wasn't so reclined - 45 degree angles are required for newborns, but since he's nearly a year old, try a 30 degree angle so he can see outside, perhaps?*


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Oh yeah, and how could I forget our SAVIOR in the car...

the paci...

but if your child is 1+ and doesn't take a paci, they probably won't take one now. Worth a try, though, if it's really that bad!!

Also: safe non-chokable finger food like those Gerber dissolvable puffs...they're vile, but safe and distracting. And a spill-proof sippy.

We also saved all of the most fascinating and enticing books for the car...the fabric ones with things to pull out of pockets &c...fuzzy bee & friends...the ones w/ beads you slide. ALL the most fabulous safe stuff went in the car.

We went through periods of agony but at some point (and now, I can't remember when - but it was well before she was 2) she just - got used to the car. Which is good, b/c we generally have to make a 30-minute roundtrip in the car twice every day







.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

I did it when they passed the age/weight guidelines at around 1 year.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

DS was 2, DD is still rear-facing at 16 months.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

OP, if you do decide to turn your child now, consider trying a return to rearfacing when your baby is born. Having the baby in the back seat might be enough company to keep him happier.


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

My son is only 3 months, but he'll def be at least 20 lbs by 1 so i;ll have no prob FrontF it then. It says in my car seat manual it's safe at 1 year and 20 lbs. HTH


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
My son is only 3 months, but he'll def be at least 20 lbs by 1 so i;ll have no prob FrontF it then. It says in my car seat manual it's safe at 1 year and 20 lbs. HTH


holly, these are the minimum legal guidelines to turn a carseat. It is so, so, SO much safer that you should rear face as long as possible - most carseats these days are approved to rearface until at least 33 lbs.


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## mommy_e (Feb 15, 2006)

To the OP: Have you tried moving the seat to the side?

Being more upright, as a PP mentioned, and closer to the window may help him. I could see where being center in a Boulevard in a Forester might mean that he couldn't see out very well. Rear-facing on the side in a seat with side impact protection is safer than forward facing in the center.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Hmmm...we turned dd1 when she was around 21mo. We couldn't fit two rf seats in our vehicle (well, not without the seat tech shaking her head) and we wanted to prepare for dd2's arrival. DD1 was never horrible with being rf but she was a lot happier ff.

I don't know what we'll do with dd2. She HATES the seat and always has. She screams till she chokes and/or vomits, arches her back, thrashes, and is obviously "not amused". Eventually she falls asleep, but it can take an hour or more. The crying upsets dd1 too so she usually starts crying too and begging dd2 to stop crying.







There is no room for an adult in back due to the two seats, she is already rf next to the window (can't install rf in center seat due to other car seat), _and_ we are moving to a more rural location which means dd2 will have to be in the car at least twice a day. She is almost 6mo and has been like this since birth. If she continues like this we may turn her a heck of a lot sooner than we did with dd1 (though not before one, obviously...she is already just shy of 20 lbs)... if turning ff helps then we'd keep it like that. If it doesn't help we'll put her back rf.

There just isn't a good solution to this... hugs mama.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

We turned the seat when she was 1.


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## fawny (Jul 25, 2007)

Here are some videos of the two car seat positions:

Forward facing - http://babyproducts.about.com/gi/dyn...cosipriori.mpg

Rear facing - http://babyproducts.about.com/gi/dyn.../TWside240.AVI

Definitely makes me want to keep DD rear facing as long as possible but again if she still screams bloody murder at 1 yr while rear facing I am going to have to make a tough decision.

I am thinking of getting something like this http://www.babyant.com/bt550259.html maybe that'll help keep DD entertained...


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## janellesmommy (Jun 6, 2004)

I turned it around when my daughter was 3 years and 1 month, because that's when she was 33 pounds, the limit for rearfacing in her carseat. She never minded being rearfacing, so that was never an issue for us. Well, actually, she did hate the carseat when she was a baby, but under 1 year forward facing wasn't an option.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

My daughter was 22 months because she had outgrown it by height and I didn't realize that different car seats had different shell heights.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Moving to family safety


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hollytheteacher* 
My son is only 3 months, but he'll def be at least 20 lbs by 1 so i;ll have no prob FrontF it then. It says in my car seat manual it's safe at 1 year and 20 lbs. HTH

It's so "safe", in fact, that in the US *the number ONE killer of children age one and up is auto accidents* - exactly because they are turned forward facing when it's "legal" and supposedly safe. _But no, it's not safe._ Forward facing costs lives. Even adults would be safer riding backwards...but that isn't really an option right now.

Before the age of one, the number one killer of children is birth defects.

Interestingly, in Sweden where children rear face to age 5, only NINE...count them...NINE children died in five years in auto accidents.

You might want to do some looking into this.


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## LizaBear (Feb 1, 2003)

DS1 - about 22 or 23 months & 28 lbs

DD - about 27 months & 28 lbs

DS2 - RF currently at 11 months & 27 lbs


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## lucky_mia (Mar 13, 2007)

Still RF at 23 months. I might have to turn them soon as they are nearing 33 lbs. but I wish they could last a bit longer.


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

We turned dd forwards facing at 9 months (the legal minimum in England) which was when she outgrew her infant carrier and there just weren't any rearfacing seats that go past about 14 months for an average child in England at the time.

So no choice, but I also was incredibly relieved because dd was also a scream until you vomit and stop breathing type of baby when she was rearfacing. She was instantly fine in the car once forwards facing even though I had always been sitting with her in the back until then when I possibly could. Every journey was a 5 min drive with her screaming, until she puked and choked when we had to pullover, get her out quick to allow her to breathe and cough up the vomit, then clean her up, then calm her down, then back in the seat for another 3-4 min drive before we would have to stop because she was choking on her own saliva and vomit she was so hysterical.

When I had to drive anywhere alone with her I would be shaking and crying and unable to think about anything other than the torture I was putting her through.

Here now you can get rearfacing seats that go up to a higher weight but only a choice of 2 or 3 different ones and they still only go up to about 28lb (which dd reached at less than 18 months) I think, and they get lower safety ratings than the more expensive forward facing ones


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

AJ went ffing for good at 34 mos and 34#. Evan is still rfing and will be 3 next week and will probably be rfing for at least another year. We have a DVD permanantly installed in our van and Evan can see it when rfing.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

DD1 was a car screamer--she would scream the entire trip every time we went anywhere, be it 5 minutes or 5 hours. She outgrew it. We turned her FF at 19 pounds and 11.5 months because we thought she was "close enough" to 1 yr and 20 pounds. I didn't know better at the time. I learned about ERF later and at 18 months old she went back to RF. At 29 months she is happily RF.

ETA: I completely agree with Angela. Knowing what I know now, there is no way I would turn a child FF before the limits, no matter what their behavior in the car is. I'm not willing to risk my child's life to maybe make them happier.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
Maybe alegna's looking at it from the perspective of:
If she was in an accident with her crying rear facing baby now (like rear-ending someone or something), chances are he would be fine, because he's rear facing. It's THAT safe. But if her child is forward facing, an accident as minor as a 10mph collision could internally decapitate that child, killing him immediately. I think it's less her being insensitive and more her realizing the vulnerability of the child's neck/spine.

No matter how much my child cried, day in and day out, I would NOT let him play in the street. I would NOT let him jump off the roof. I would NOT let him stand in the rollercoaster ride. There are some things that are always safer options, and rear facing is always the safer option - for the child.

And yeah - CIO sucks in the car. But sometimes you've got to allow it for the greater good of the child's safety. Mom can get earmuffs.

















That's it exactly.







to the OP and everyone struggling with this. There are a lot of ideas here. More than I could come up with. I would start a list and try a bunch.

good luck!

-Angela


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I'm not willing to risk my child's life to maybe make them happier.

Again, it's not only about making the child happier. I rear ended someone because of my son's screaming. It was lucky that it was a fender bender, or I would have put someone else's life at risk that day, as well. I woudln't have turned him then - he was only 6 weeks old. But it gets to the point that you have to weigh the evils, and I understand why parents of car screaming kids sometimes decide that the best decision is to turn their child around earlier than is ideal. Believe me, I'm a ERF advocate - I even have a 26 month old who is still rearfacing (though he's exactly the size my oldest was at one year old. Not relevant to the thread, really, but the thread made me think about that and it made me go all














, I just get why a mother, weighing it out, would choose to turn her toddler around.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

my ds hated his seat his face would turn red and he many times stoped breathing. he was young when this was happening till he was 6m. when i bought a convertable carseat it was like night and day. i am thankful he reached 20lb fast because after i changed his seat he was happy.

after reading these post i am wondering about the older kids that hate their seats if a dvd player would calm them down yes yes i know saftey issues but if it was attached to the seat that was beside them or not just directly in front of them. i would of tried this if i had of thought of it, i have some nice baby movies























just thinking it would be even more speical for the family's that are tv free or limited


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## fawny (Jul 25, 2007)

My Mom never had car seats for my brothers back in the early 70's because no one used them, I was put one of those weird bucket seats that probably wouldn't have saved me anyways. She said people used to just lay their babies in the back or front seat and hope they didn't roll off... makes you wonder how anyone survived


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

I turned my oldest (now almost 5) at 15 mos., when he hit 20 lbs. I am SO thankful that I wasn't in any wrecks and he is alive today despite my ignorance. Seriously, it is almost enough to give me a panic attack just thinking about what could have happened.
My youngest will be 2 in a couple weeks and is 31 lbs. and rear-facing. I am freaked out thinking he might have to be turned in a couple of months (our carseat only RFs to 33 lbs).
I would do absolutely anything to avoid turning a young toddler FFing. My toddler does okay in the car most of the time, but we travel a lot and he does get really upset after a couple of hours and will cry for 20-45 minutes before falling asleep. Also, my kids will fight in the backseat which involves screaming and crying, but usually only for 5-10 minutes.
When they are fighting or crying very loudly, I first remind them that it is dangerous for them to yell/cry when I'm driving (this works for my older son, less so for my little guy but some now that he's really verbal and understands what I'm talking about). If that fails, I crank the radio up really loud so that I'm not distracted by the crying. It's certainly not AP to ignore a screaming toddler, but in a car, you just have to. It's not safe to pay attention to the crying child when you should be paying attention to the road. You could try earplugs if you don't like loud music.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

DD HAAAAATES the carseat with a vengeance. She is still RF at 28m (she's a peanut, about 32" and 26lbs) We have to plan our entire day around her if the trip will be over 20 minutes. She either has to be sleeping or eating in it or she will be screaming. I think she probably would be happier FF.

She won't be FF until she reaches the limits on her Britax Marathon for RF. I don't care how much she screams. Her physical safety in one of the most dangerous things in the world-being in a car- is a priority even above her happiness while in the car. Her screaming does not distract me- I know she is safe and comfortable, just bored and angry that she's not getting attention, which is sad, but necessary. I learned to drive while blasting metal so I guess I'm used to loud noise! But seriously, I would be FAR more distracted if she were FF, because I'd be even MORE worried about getting into an accident. I've been in an accident with DD in the car, and it was terrifying. We were rear ended on the highway and smashed into the car in front of us. DD was FINE. I wasn't. I was thinking about what could've happened if she were FF.

Kids are still going to cry sometimes, even when they're FF. It's important to learn how to operate a vehicle properly with distractions going on. If a loud ambulance is near you, if a deer jumps out, if a drunk driver's on the road- you still have to drive defensively and take control even if you feel sick, scared, shaky, etc. I'm not trying to downplay the feelings mothers have from listening to their little ones scream and cry- I'm a mom too, and I feel the same way- but in the car, I force myself to tune it out and realize she's safer this way.


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## janellesmommy (Jun 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
But if her child is forward facing, an accident as minor as a 10mph collision could internally decapitate that child, killing him immediately.

Is this true? Because we were rear-ended at a high speed. My 5 month old was rear facing. Isn't rear-facing in a rear-end accident the same as forward facing in a forward accident?

At first I was glad that he was rear facing, but after researching it, I discovered he would actually have been safer forward facing for this particular accident.

Overall, rear facing is safer because front end crashes are more common, and tend to be at higher speeds.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janellesmommy* 
Isn't rear-facing in a rear-end accident the same as forward facing in a forward accident?

No; it is analogous in some ways but definitely not the same.

Force (i.e. on your neck) is a function of acceleration, which is an expression of how much and how quickly your speed changes.

If you are driving 40 mph and hit something big and immovable head on, your speed is going to go from 40 to 0 in a matter of heartbeats -- a severe acceleration and severe force on your neck. THis is the senario that is simulated in all the crash test videos I've seen.

If you are stopped at a red light and someone who is going 40 mph rear-ends you, you will accelerate forward (and I'm sure you felt the lurch, it's happened to me) but you will not accelerate to 40mph in the blink of an eye. The collision is very in-elastic, and energy is absorbed by your car, the other car, your brakes, the internal friction in your transmission and drive train, etc. etc. In this scenario, the mass and inertia of your car are your allies.

The point you are making is valid; someone sitting rear-facing in a rear-collison would feel as if he is being thrown toward the rear of the car rather than into the back of his seat. And it would be possible to suffer a neck injury in a case like this. But the forces involved will vary significantly from a head-on collision at the same speed.


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## ScotiaSky (Jul 2, 2004)

You can get DVD screens that attach to a seat head rest.

Many different brands out there but this is an example of one(it has a car seat strap)

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...5BLK-R&cpc=SCH

Our van has a factory installed DVD player which is great for our almost 4 year old who is FF.
For our next big trip I will consider getting one that attaches to the head rest for RF DD.
I am sure it would be considered a projectile and I am very careful about projectiles in the car. But for an 18 hour straight drive I'd rather have the DVD player then my DD FF(she is almost 23 months)

DD was 18 months and 28 lbs when we switched to FF againist my educated judgment and to go back I would not allow my DH and MIL to convince me to switch.

FWIW I am an inexperienced driver(although I have had my license for 11 years I just never drove) learning to drive a van in winter conditions.

*Both* *kids* take fits in the car at some point, no matter which direction they are facing.
Its something I have to block out or I pull over otherwise its dangerous for all of us.


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## devster4fun (Jan 28, 2007)

I think the results of the poll say it all...it is just about even among the 4 options. Thus telling me, everyone does things their own way. Whatever is best for them and their family.

I've learned one big lesson in my first year and half of parenting...stop worrying about what other parents do. (This is not directed at anyone but myself)


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *devster4fun* 
I think the results of the poll say it all...it is just about even among the 4 options. Thus telling me, everyone does things their own way. Whatever is best for them and their family.

I've learned one big lesson in my first year and half of parenting...stop worrying about what other parents do. (This is not directed at anyone but myself)









tottaly, i stopped worrying about how anyone else does it a while ago, its not worth it. Just follow whats best for you and yours.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:

Our van has a factory installed DVD player which is great for our almost 4 year old who is FF.
My rfing son can still see our DVD player just fine. He's in a Britax Boulevard w/ it as reclined as possible.

Quote:

I've learned one big lesson in my first year and half of parenting...stop worrying about what other parents do.
I think it's silly to say you can't ever worry about what other parents do. There are many times when other parents are doing dangerous things (like turning thier kids ffing before they should be) when you need to worry about them for the sake of the children.


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## devster4fun (Jan 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thepeach80* 
My rfing son can still see our DVD player just fine. He's in a Britax Boulevard w/ it as reclined as possible.

I think it's silly to say you can't ever worry about what other parents do. There are many times when other parents are doing dangerous things (like turning thier kids ffing before they should be) when you need to worry about them for the sake of the children.

Well, of course I worry...to myself. I try to keep things in perspective and realize I have ZERO idea what is going on in their life. I feel the same way you do, really.

I guess I see things *I* think are dangerous all the time. Am I supposed to go up to every foward facing toddler I see and ask about the weight limits of their seat? Or ask how much their baby weighs? Should I inquire if a formula feeding mom knows BF is best? What about the Mom's buying giant plastic toys at Wal-Mart?

Many, many parents would think some of the choices I make are dangerous. I delay vaxes, I co-slept, I don't hover over her every move and yep....she falls.

They can think whatever they want. I'm still going to do what I think is best for my child and my family. And again, it doesn't matter to me what other's choose. (Unless they ask me point blank for an opinion)


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I understand that totally, I do b/c I'm the same way, but I see these threads as a learning experience for some. I don't get up in arms about these threads and shove the info down people's throats (at least I hope I don't







) but I do feel it's important for other's to share their choices and why they chose that and give mom's other ideas and things to think about. Not only might it help those who might be doing something dangerous, it gives those of us who didn't choose that way maybe a time to understand why other mom's chose that and try to understand them as well. I think we have to remember online is VERY different than real life. I can be much more open and up front here on MDC than I can a lot of times w/ moms I see at the grocery store.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

38 months and still RF (the 12 month old is RF as well)...DD1 hated the car but was so petite she didn't reach 22 lbs (the min for FF on my car seat)until 2 maybe...by that point she could look at books and was ok (maybe 18 months?).

I should also point out that my dd is a breath-holder - when she is upset she holds her breath until she passes out or goes into convulsions. Sometimes vomits, loses control of her bodily functions, etc. Soooo, yeah, I know what you guys mean by distracting...









My solution? Live somewhere where you don't have to drive all the time...







:
We drove maybe once a week, strolled everywhere else (or wore her). I mean, I'd hate being strapped in a car seat all day too, you know?


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *devster4fun* 
I think the results of the poll say it all...it is just about even among the 4 options. Thus telling me, everyone does things their own way. Whatever is best for them and their family.

I've learned one big lesson in my first year and half of parenting...stop worrying about what other parents do. (This is not directed at anyone but myself)

Thanks for posting, I appreciate your thoughts.

I didn't post the poll to get opinions about RF vs FF...I know the stats on that...I'm well-educated on the subject. I'm not worried about what other moms are doing so I can put myself on par with them, as I know my child best. My poll and question was directed at moms with car-hating children. I was searching for alternatives to FF my approx 28 lb son. I feel I have tried every possible thing to ease our MANDATORY car ride together. It is not as if he cried once and I jumped on line. I've tried snacks...and yes oyster crackers work for a brief amount of time. This is a snack I never give my son but discovered this one ride home when all I had in the car was the crackers left over from lunch with me...I've tried a paci, bottles, sippy cups, mom's cell phone, my house keys, he has a big ol' mirror, his fave CDs, constantly singing, talking out our ride or our day, having special toys just for the car, buckets of toys being passed back one at a time which NEVER worked...he throws them faster than I can pass them back. The ONLY thing that works is holding my hand. It is how he soothes himself to sleep. It is how he soothes himself to sleep when we are home. And after a long 8+ hours of being w/o me he wants to touch me...he's tired from daycare and we need to get home. I'm a teacher I work set hours, I can't travel at different times, I can't not take him to daycare, I have to be the one who takes him b/c it is near my job...DH works 1+ hours in the opposite direction. After a very lengthy daycare search this was not only the best place I could find, but it was one of two places in three counties that had openings for infants before June! I need to make this work until April when I am on maternity leave again as we are still trying to catch up from the having taken off this past year. The only thing I haven't tried is the DVD player.

Added catch is...and those of you with Forresters understand its shortcomings...two RF carseats do not fit in a Forrester. The damn car is touted as a family car but doesn't exactly fit carseats. We learned this with my son't infant seat. It ONLY fits in the middle spot. In order to put it in the side seats, the front seats have to be pushed all the way forward...we are too tall to drive like that and neither of us can fit behind the driver's seat. When we bought the BLVD it fit better in the middle spot, it doesn't reach into the front like the snugride does...but it is still big. We recently tried putting the snugride and the BLVD in together and can't fit them both next to each unless the BLVD is FF...in addition to the fact that putting the BLVD behind the passenger seat creates the same problem as the snugride in that position which is the seat has to be all the way forward and no one can sit up front then, nor can we fit in the spot behind the driver. The Forrester sucks...we are stuck with it for 2 more years w/o options of a newer car. So again I am facing having to FF sooner than I wanted. Come April my son will be 15months old...

I am troubled by the whole subject. It kept me up all last night again, as I am sure it will do tonight too.

Thanks again to all the moms of children who hate the car...I appreciate your support/advice.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
Added catch is...and those of you with Forresters understand its shortcomings...two RF carseats do not fit in a Forrester.

I've heard complaints about carseats in Forresters before. How upright have you tried the blvd? I saw a mom-friend recently who had her blvd MUCH more upright than I would have thought about. But my understanding is that it's okay that way.

good luck!

-Angela


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueIrises* 
The ONLY thing that works is holding my hand. It is how he soothes himself to sleep. It is how he soothes himself to sleep when we are home.


http://www.thezaky.com/en/zaky/zaky.php








:









I know it wouldn't work - the thing actually sort of scares me. But I thought of it when I read your post.


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## WaturMama (Oct 6, 2006)

We actually haven't turned it yet, but since ds is over two years, I chose over two years.


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## majikfaerie (Jul 24, 2006)

I think that zaky thing is beyond creepy

uke


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
I think that zaky thing is beyond creepy

uke

creepy, weird, yet a good tool for preemies


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I've heard complaints about carseats in Forresters before. How upright have you tried the blvd? I saw a mom-friend recently who had her blvd MUCH more upright than I would have thought about. But my understanding is that it's okay that way.

good luck!

-Angela

I can install a Britax seat VERY upright.







It's also o.k. to be shoved against the front seat, they don't have to be clear of them like some seats.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I turned dd1 and ds around at about 14 months old.

18mo dd2 is still RF and will be as long as she can be according to weight limits (which would probably be 4yo if she's small like her big sis) and is happy.

She doesn't mind being RF because she's in the middle of the middle seat of the van... and her older siblings are behind her in the back seat. So it's easy for them to visit and have a good time while we drive.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Oh, just thought I'd throw this out there... have you tried a motion sickness remedy? We like the one made by Hyland's (maker of the teething tablets).


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riversong* 
Ds also is not crazy about riding in the car, but it's not nearly as bad as some of you describe. Holding the remote for the car doors really keeps him happy for a long time. I only give it to him when he's fussy in the car, so it's "special."

This was a bad, bad idea. Ds chewed on the remote a bunch yesterday and the car started going nuts last night, just locking and unlocking itself and flashing the lights over and over when it was turned off. I finally got it to stop by leaving the key in the ignition with it parked in the garage. So, I do not recommend giving your dc the car remote to keep them happy in their carseats.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

I turned dd one around at one because I thought that was what you were supposed to do. With this baby, I am not sure what we will do. Rear facing does not work so well in my car, camry, but we have a good car seat tech locally so I will try to get her help to make it work as long as we can.

I feel for those of you with kiddos who HATE car rides. Must be hard.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

blueirises, since he hates it so much and you believe it's because of lack of contact/tiredness after day care, can you just sit and hold him or nurse him before leaving daycare? Maybe tell him "let's sit here for 10 minutes and snuggle before we get on the road." Then, shorten it to 5 minutes, gradually, you know? It sounds like the poor little guy is just miserable back there, and you must be pretty miserable too. I can't imagine trying to drive like you describe.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

we just just turned ds FF at 2.9 yrs only because he weighs 32 1/2 lbs and we needed his car seat for the baby who was outgrowing the infant seat. I seriously contemplated buying a scenara for the 35 lb weight limit but couldn't convince dh.

He is pretty tall too but never once complained and just sorta bent his legs or folded them. I think he was more comfy and napped more often rear facing but alas he reached the rf'ing limit of his seat.

eta: ok just read the OP and luckily none of my kids hated being in their car seat so we didn't have your issues, I do think I'd try everything possible to keep them calm before turning any child under age 2.


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## beanandpumpkin (Jan 2, 2005)

Justin was a year old... I didn't know any better.

Rebecca was a hair under two years old... she was small enough to stay rear facing, but she would kick the seat behind her so much that the carseat would gradually start laying back too much. And it was in TIGHT!

Ideally, I would have kept her rear facing until 33 lbs, but that would have been about another year, and it just wasn't working out.


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## BlueIrises (Jul 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
blueirises, since he hates it so much and you believe it's because of lack of contact/tiredness after day care, can you just sit and hold him or nurse him before leaving daycare? Maybe tell him "let's sit here for 10 minutes and snuggle before we get on the road." Then, shorten it to 5 minutes, gradually, you know? It sounds like the poor little guy is just miserable back there, and you must be pretty miserable too. I can't imagine trying to drive like you describe.

I do hold and play with him for about 10 minutes before we leave. This gives me not only time with him but I am able to talk with his teachers too. Sometimes I am early enough that I get there to give him his bottle (I'm pregnat with #2 so my milk dried up about 5 weeks ago) so we sit and rock in the chair together. I have also asked to make sure that for at least the 15 minutes before I am scheduled to come, he is not eating at the snack table but is playing on the floor so he doesn't go from one confining seat to another.

I am counting down the days to Christmas break so I am not making the drive with him and we will be home together...then the count down will be until February break...and then April when my maternity leave begins...I just need to get through these next few weeks.

Thank you Betsy for your kindness!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Hoping for some change or improvement in your situation - SOON!

-Angela


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## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
just another notch on the side of going car-free.
while necessary for safety, carseats just arent really attachment parenting.
sigh.
I'm so glad my DD finally accepted her car seat, and now in her booster she freaks out hysterically if she's not in her seatbelt









Attachment parenting involves meeting your child's needs.

One of your child's needs is to be safe.

So yeah, car seats are most definitely AP


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *majikfaerie* 
just another notch on the side of going car-free.
while necessary for safety, carseats just arent really attachment parenting.


Maybe if we put an organic lambskin and a plastic boob in there it'd make it a little more AP? Hook a pump to mama in the front seat and run it to a nipple in the back?


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sancta* 
It's so "safe", in fact, that in the US *the number ONE killer of children age one and up is auto accidents* - exactly because they are turned forward facing when it's "legal" and supposedly safe. _But no, it's not safe._ Forward facing costs lives. Even adults would be safer riding backwards...but that isn't really an option right now.

Before the age of one, the number one killer of children is birth defects.

Interestingly, in Sweden where children rear face to age 5, only NINE...count them...NINE children died in five years in auto accidents.

You might want to do some looking into this.

I am wondering about this.. I fully understand (and agree) that a child should be RF as long as possible and I intend on doing that. But Im wondering about these statistics. What are the speed limits like in Sweden? Are people allowed to talk on their cell phones and drive? (its legal in my state, but not all.) Do people rely on their cars as heavily in Sweden as they do in the US? Nine children in five years sounds like such a low number, there has to be more to it than just RF.


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