# "picky eaters"...when the heck did this start?



## Molliejo (Jan 7, 2006)

When in history did having a "picky eater" become common? Can you imagine the american pioneers having a child that refused to eat dinner because they didn't like it.......every night?

Where does it start? Is it about having too many choices? Is it the fact that we as Americans have access to huge amounts of food and we have never really had to worry about food shortages?

Is there any way to prevent it?








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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Or, people used to spank their kids and hold them down and shove food in their mouth. Or not eat anything until they finished what was put in front of them, even if it was three days later.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I think they just didn't really have much of another choice. DD (thankfully) is not picky at all. She eats what I cook, because that's just what we ALL eat. If she is choosing not to eat it, I assume she isn't hungry at the moment, and dont push the issue. I think lots of people, (NOT ALL) in an attempt to get junior to eat SOMETHING, ANYTHING, will continue to offer and offer different foods until they find something junior will eat. Dont get me wrong, if dd is hungry, she has the right to eat, just like anyone else does in our family. We aren't at all strict with food or mealtimes. We just give her a plate of food and if she eats great, if not, no biggie.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Or, people used to spank their kids and hold them down and shove food in their mouth. Or not eat anything until they finished what was put in front of them, even if it was three days later.

WOW that's a pretty dramatic & exaggerated response and well frankly I doubt the norm. Are you defensive like this because you have a picky eater and this post bothers you?


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## polyhymnia (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
WOW that's a pretty dramatic & exaggerated response and well frankly I doubt the norm. Are you defensive like this because you have a picky eater and this post bothers you?

My grandparents talked about having similar things done to them. Being forced to sit at the table until they finished their meal, not being offered anything else until they finished that meal - even if it was the one thing they truly detested, not being allowed any extras, having their portion sizes determined for them, spankings for not eating, etc. My grandmother told me about one time when her parents forced her to sit and eat a whole plate of dinner when she was not feeling well, and then spanked her for throwing up all night long. Two days later the doctor said she had rheumatic fever (I think that's it - is that the one that causes a weakened heart?). This was in the early 1900s.

I don't think eclipse's response is "dramatic & exaggerated" at all; it may not be part of your experience but that does not mean it is not part of someone else's.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
WOW that's a pretty dramatic & exaggerated response and well frankly I doubt the norm. Are you defensive like this because you have a picky eater and this post bothers you?

Actually, I do have a picky eater - but I wasn't really offended by the post. My husband had exactly these things happen to him, though. My son's picky eating stems from sensory issues - and they only way to get him to eat things he's bnot comfortable eating would be to resort to things like that (though, frankly, none of those would probably even work with him.) I think that gentle parenting with some children involves a whole lot of compromise on the part of parents with regards to food (and some would call that catering to them. The only fruit my son will eat is mangoes - and only precut, and only the correct color of orange, and only pieces that are neither to slimy nor too dry, etc etc etc - but it's more important to me that we have a peaceful household and that he eats as much variety as he can, so I don't try to force other fruits on him. If that's catering to him or being indulgent, oh well.)


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

One thing to consider is that our diet today is much more varied than that of a typical pioneer family's. Toddlers commonly require many, many, exposures to a new food before they will eat it.

On an average weekly trip to the supermarket, I might buy forty or fifty different kinds of food - which I may then go on to season in multiple different ways or serve with different cooking methods which change the texture or flavor. My two-year-old is therefore exposed to a very wide and constantly changing range of flavors and food textures, each of which she has to get used to individually.

In contrast, a pioneer family's diet would probably be based around a dozen or two foods, with a lot of sameness from day to day or meal to meal. That's probably much more to the average toddler's liking than the way that we eat today.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5* 
One thing to consider is that our diet today is much more varied than that of a typical pioneer family's.

According to the books that I recently read (Letters from a Woman Homesteader, Pioneer Women, and one other I can't think the name of), this is completely not true. They ate seasonally, but a much more varied diet than we do. It was all natural, fresh, and in-season, though, which I think is the contributing factor. The kids these days all want these cancer-inducing, petroleum-based, artificially-flavored food instead of natural food. Yeah, there are more foods, but they are "non-foods" and foods grown in unnatural conditions.

In pioneer times, a typical diet was: guinea fowl, wild turkey, chickens, beef, turnips, potatoes, onions, apples, wild blue berries, wild strawberries, milk, butter, cream, cantaloupe, squash, pumpkin (yes, I know it's a squash), plums, nuts... goodness, I could go on forever.

I don't have a picky eater. We eat only whole foods, so my comments will be very skewed, but I do believe it's because kids get programmed early in their lives to "like" these processed foods instead of real food. Commercialism is certainly a culprit too.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

What age range of children are we talking about? Because I have a 2 year old, and he is an EXTREMELY picky eater. I think children this age were naturaly meant to nurse because picky eating around this age is pretty normal, and ensuring that the child is still nursing provides nutrition that the child may not be getting through solids yet.


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## Molliejo (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
What age range of children are we talking about? Because I have a 2 year old, and he is an EXTREMELY picky eater. I think children this age were naturaly meant to nurse because picky eating around this age is pretty normal, and ensuring that the child is still nursing provides nutrition that the child may not be getting through solids yet.

I was thinking of children that are at least 3 or so.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I think part of it is natural (being wary of new foods); part of it is cultural (our general culture and the fact that we have so many choices) and part of it is the child's personality.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....

Um, "indulge" pickiness? What a snarky thing to say. The first assumption is that fixing my kid things he actually LIKES to eat (like any member of the family) is indulgent; the second assumption is that pickiness if something that can be changed. I think in some cases is could be, in a lot of cases probably not.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Aw man, ANOTHER one of these threads???!!!!???

Dude, I don't have the energy today.







Somebody take the torch for me, will ya? Or better yet, go over to special needs and do a search for "feeding" or "feeding disorder" or "picky eater" and read up. NM, I see that other moms have taken the torch already.







I'll add my experience....

Here, my quote from this thread:

Quote:


My son really WOULD rather starve than eat something he finds tactile defensive. He used to projectile vomit when you put something green in front of him..._even green apple sauce_. After 2.5 years of feeding therapy, he merely gags and screams until you cover it with a napkin and remove it from his sight. My son cannot chew certain foods, as the textures are repulsive to him to the point it is painful for him to chew them. Also, he does not have the muscle coordination in his mouth/tongue/jaw to chew them. It takes 10 exposures of a food for my son to even touch it. That's TOUCH it. Not actually eat it. 10 exposures means preparing said food 10 times, and eating it in his presence 10 times, at 10 separate meals. 10 exposures only means he'll touch the food or tolerate it in his presence, not actually eat it.

My child, 100 years ago, probably would be dead. Because of his oral motor difficulties, we had extreme nursing problems (and I teach other women how to nurse, so it ain't lack of knowledge or support...it was truly a mechanical problem...). As in after 30 minutes of nursing his total intake was 13cc's (that's approximately 1/3 ounce). As in he literally couldn't suck strong or coordinated enough to get me to make milk or to get enough milk into him without being physically exhausted. The first 3 weeks of his life we used the SNS and supplemented with formula (collective gasp of horror...







). 100 years ago, he couldn't have even nursed from a wet nurse because he COULDN'T NURSE, period. Even with the SNS, it took him an hour to take in 30 cc's of formula (that's an ounce). He was exhausted. He burned it off as he took it in.

100 years ago he probably would have had the crap beaten out of him for being "willful" or some other junk. 100 years ago he would have probably choked on the acid he was constantly spitting up from his reflux. 100 years ago he probably would have been shaken because of colic.

So there's your answer. Having a kid who hates broccoli or prefers mickey d's is NOT the same at all as having a child who has a feeding disorder that is sensory and oral-motor based. It's not a "why don't you just...." situation. If I had a nickel for every stinking person who gave me that "why don't you just do xyz" crap, I would be a gazillionaire.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Aw man, ANOTHER one of these threads???!!!!???

Dude, I don't have the energy today.







Somebody take the torch for me, will ya? Or better yet, go over to special needs and do a search for "feeding" or "feeding disorder" or "picky eater" and read up. NM, I see that other moms have taken the torch already.







I'll add my experience....












I thought of _exactly_ this post by you when I first read this thread.







:


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I prefer to call it having a child with a sensitive palate







.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 









I thought of _exactly_ this post by you when I first read this thread.







:

LMAO...ruh roh....yeah, I'm a lil' cranky about these type threads lately.







: We attempted to feed my ds a half of a dried apricot the other day, as he is teeth-grinding and his OT suggested giving him dried fruit, jelly beans (oh noes!) and gummi bears (gasp!) to give him the sensory input he needs. Yeah, that went over like a fart in church. He held the dried apricot, unchewed, in his mouth for 2 hours. TWO HOURS. Didn't chew it. Didn't spit it out 'cause he can't spit things out. Just let the doggone thing sit there. Mmmm. Good times.







:


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## Molliejo (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Aw man, ANOTHER one of these threads???!!!!???

Dude, I don't have the energy today.







Somebody take the torch for me, will ya? Or better yet, go over to special needs and do a search for "feeding" or "feeding disorder" or "picky eater" and read up. NM, I see that other moms have taken the torch already.







I'll add my experience....

Here, my quote from this thread:

Sorry, but what does this have to do with my question as to when it became common in america to have a "picky eater"? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just confused.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

I think that having a picky eater (which my some Barrett is) and having a child with a sensory or other developemental issue is very different. My son ate several foods until he saw the pedisure commercial where the little girl said I dont think I like broccoli, and I dont think I like chicken... well my son decided that kids dont like that stuff. But with him I have just been patient and continued to serve the same foods and here we are almost 4 years later and he ate broccoli at a picnic! And loved it no less! But we never made it a huge issue.

I think while some kids have true issues with foods, most do not. But only the parent of the child really knows. I would never look at a child that only ate blue applesauce and think that it was the parents fault. Honestly I would assume that there were probably medical issues that were involved. But I was a director of a support agency for Disabled adults and children for many years so my prespective is different.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShadowMom* 
I think part of it is natural (being wary of new foods); part of it is cultural (our general culture and the fact that we have so many choices) and part of it is the child's personality.

Um, "indulge" pickiness? What a snarky thing to say. The first assumption is that fixing my kid things he actually LIKES to eat (like any member of the family) is indulgent; the second assumption is that pickiness if something that can be changed. I think in some cases is could be, in a lot of cases probably not.


Are you saying that NEVER happens? Come on, be real. It does happen. What about parents who never encourage their kids to try new things? What about my SIL who told me her children would NEVER eat my homemade chicken pot pie, but they devoured it? She was guilty, IMO, of helping her kids with their so-called "pickiness".

I don't think anyone is referring to kids with real sensory or other problems. But, for some to imply that it could never be the parents, well, I don't agree.


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## Marcee (Jan 23, 2007)

I am not sure where the pickiness comes from though. But I do think that some kids thrive on "constant" things whether it is food or a specific routine. I mean come on how many of us here have "comfort foods".... I think that this is the same for many little ones. And as long as I can keep it fairly balanced I just dont stress about it.

But being a picky eater is again COMPLETELY different from a child with medical issues! The topics are on no level the same!


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *norajane* 
Sorry, but what does this have to do with my question as to when it became common in america to have a "picky eater"? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just confused.









I have no idea how many eaters out there are really and truly picky and how many are a result of parenting or what have you.

I agree w/the pp, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that lots of parents are no longer abusing their kids as punishment for "bad" eating habits. You could easily ask the same question about why there are so many kids who are "poor sleepers" out there, and I would tell you it probably has to do with the fact that fewer parents are sleep training their kids and/or using CIO, they are instead dealing with their child's problems head on and in a gentle, constructive manner which I'm sure can be viewed as "indulgent" by lots of people.

I don't know. My kid is a picky eater because he has a legit feeding disorder. I'm very sensitive to this topic, ESPECIALLY here, because I see lots and lots of judgment from people here all the time. It can really wear on you after a while. Sort of like people on other boards trash talking the family bed or NCB. You get a little raw around the edges after being constantly judged by total strangers all the time, so sorry if I bit and barked in my first reply.

I think it is partly due to the massive incorporation of convenience foods and fast foods into our society, plus the fact that many moms or dads don't honestly have TIME to be in the kitchen cooking up a homemade meal like they did in the 50's, plus the fact that more parents are stopping the "clean your plate or else" mentality that was so pervasive in the good ol' days as well. It's a combination of factors.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
I don't know. My kid is a picky eater because he has a legit feeding disorder. I'm very sensitive to this topic, ESPECIALLY here, because I see lots and lots of judgment from people here all the time. It can really wear on you after a while. Sort of like people on other boards trash talking the family bed or NCB. You get a little raw around the edges after being constantly judged by total strangers all the time, so sorry if I bit and barked in my first reply.

While I don't have the same set of problems, I can totally understand where you are coming from. I have major back and joint problems. Got a buldging disk, had one knee surgery, still need another one, etc. I get REALLY upset when I see the "strollers are evil" threads. I have a fricken baby carrier in my car, upstairs, downstairs, in my back pack, at my FIL's, one for sale, etc. I love them. HOWEVER, I also *need* my stroller. As in, can't walk because one knee is full of fluid, the other one's arthritis is flaring up, burning nerve in my back and can't lift my left arm above my head, *need*.

So yeah, I totally get you.

However, I also understand the question about picky eaters. I just think we have placed such a huge emphasis on excess food and portion sizes. Not only is there a huge selection of foods, but the portion sizes are huge.

A 100 years ago people ate to live, now we live to eat. When we view food as hobby instead of something that is supposed to fuel our bodies, it's no wonder we look at the few *bites* our kids eat and worry that they're being picky.

Like the above poster mentioned about pioneers eating fresh in season food, even though there is a huge selection over all, not all foods were available all the time.

Last week I got the first few tomatoes off the vine. DD LOVED them. And right now I have about a dozen more ready to come off the vine. DD loves tomatoes, so she'll probably eat a lot of them in the next few weeks. Same with the few other things that are almost ready to be harvested.

When I tell people that she'll eat 2 or 3 tomatoes in a day because she loves them they look at me funny and say "picky eater, huh?". No, not really. She just loves tomatoes and I have bunch coming off the vine.

So my answer is that, relatively speaking, children aren't getting pickier, it's our diet getting bigger and more hectic.


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## Molliejo (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
A 100 years ago people ate to live, now we live to eat. When we view food as hobby instead of something that is supposed to fuel our bodies, it's no wonder we look at the few *bites* our kids eat and worry that they're being picky.

*Very* well said.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
A 100 years ago people ate to live, now we live to eat. When we view food as hobby instead of something that is supposed to fuel our bodies, it's no wonder we look at the few *bites* our kids eat and worry that they're being picky.

This is also I think a HUGE part of the problem, and especially contributes to the obesity and eating disorder problem in this country. I myself have both of those problems, and I swear it's because food has become so...so..._socialized_, instead of something that's a necessity for basic survival, kwim? Instead of food being something you eat to fuel your body, you eat food to comfort, to celebrate, to numb, to show off, to display wealth, to gather the family....a whole host of reasons other than "because I'm hungry." I have to make a CONSCIOUS effort to NOT eat when I'm not hungry. I have years of programming from my family to undo. I also have a hard time stopping eating when I'm full.







It's insane. It drives me NUTS.

Needless to say, with all my nutty food issues, having a kid with a feeding disorder is a real challenge. Omg. It took me a good solid year to really get past MY hang-ups about food in order to see ds's issues clearly and tackle them correctly. It's very hard to have all these body image issues and food issues and then have a kid who won't TOUCH a fruit or vegetable unless it's pureed. It took me a long time to get over the "aaack!!! he's eating so unhealthy!! I'm ruining my child!!!" messages that you tell yourself over and over (and read on places like MDC, where processed foods are a sin and you are a horrible mother if your child eats chicken nuggets...







). You have to really work to get past all that when your kid has issues like mine.

After the great depression, we had WWII which subsequently lead to a boom in the economy and the bounty of the 50's. Our society has come so far away from living with what is necessary to living with what is coveted, wanted, and desired, that we really don't know the difference any more. I think that contributes a LOT to food/eating issues, myself included.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Um, yeah... *North*, I seem to be following you around today... and I think I love you...? VERY well put, indeed.

*Finch*: Oh my. Wow. You are a _soldier_, to be sure. I looked over that thread u posted... just, wow.

Ok, so, picky eaters. Referring strictly to actual picky eaters, not sensory kiddos, or what have you... Picky eaters: I was one. I am still one. I have a really hard time modelling what dd should eat in terms of veggies, and whole foods... because I am not a huge lover of them. I eat them... I cook with them, I hide veggies (from myself more than dd) in many of my recipes. I was a sous chef and am creative and make food my husband is now pestering me to open a resaurant to serve to the public because he deems it so darned creative and deliscious... and dd is a picky eater. I make organic low-to-no fat enchiladas (seriously, pm for the recipe, it's divine), vegetarian lasagna, burritos, whole-grain pasta mac n cheese, all kindsa great wholesome stuff that dd will little touch much less enjoy. She takes 2-3 bites and is asking to please be excused... she's almost 3, and while I know that her stomach is no bigger than her little fist, I worry that she doesn't get enough. I do. I also know it's my job to make nutritious food available, and encourage her to eat it, but not to 'manage' her intake. That's a tough one. (We recently have learned that letting her run a lap or two halfway through dinner actually has her staying at the table longer and eating better.)

But I have also asked the same question re; Americanized eating habits. I think it's part of our standardized luxury. We take our food for granted a little, even in the most evolved home. You know Etheopians don't have the luxury of wheat-allergy-diagnosis or lactose intolerance... That's totally a luxury. Just being part of a society that has the luxury of being able to determine dietary needs on such a level plays a big role in the attitude our children have about food, the food-climate they live in dictates a lot of it, I think.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

A 100 years ago people ate to live, now we live to eat. When we view food as hobby instead of something that is supposed to fuel our bodies, it's no wonder we look at the few *bites* our kids eat and worry that they're being picky.
well said.

I am glad Finch tackled this before me, because well, um, I could have gotten a tad bit snarky....









My son has a legit eating disorder which is a stuggle or used to be everyday. I get so many cracks about it that I am a nutter when it comes to this subject. My son will only eat the processed nuggets, fries, pizza and crapolia everyday. Actually, my son ate a varied diet until urm lets see right after his MMR shot, so about 16 months or so he started going downhill.

I dont know if vaxes have anything to do with the eating preferences, but that is a whole nother subject.Basically people who do not have children who are "picky eaters' do not understand. At all.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
WOW that's a pretty dramatic & exaggerated response and well frankly I doubt the norm. Are you defensive like this because you have a picky eater and this post bothers you?

I was forced to eat and punished physically for not eating.

All my kids are picky eaters... I think way back when kids eventually just got hungry enough and ate(and yes they were forced to as well I'm sure). Most early settlers did not have it very easy foodwise.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

My kid heard @#!% Caillou* say he didn't like vegetables, now she says she doesn't like vegetables.

_Damn you, evil Caillou! Damn you straight to hell!!!_

*known in our house as "that whiner Caillou"


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Damn you, evil Caillou! Damn you straight to hell!!!
























but on the plus side, caillou made my son eat cupcakes!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

My son learned the phrase "Stupid cat!" from Caillou. That little bald child surely is the devil!


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Some of the very pickiest eaters I know are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders, which are dramatically on the rise these days. So if indeed picky eaters are on the rise are that may be one reason. In addition, I think it could be possibile that milder related conditions like SID are on the rise too -- it's hard to say because those conditions weren't diagnosed 100 years ago.

Of course the question of why autism is on the rise is the logical next step.

Another thought that I have is that children with sensory issues benefit from sensory rich environments. In many ways the environment that pioneer children faced had much more tactile input -- barefeet running through grass, more extremes of temperature from the cold outside on their faces to cuddling up close to the hearth. This may also play a role in helping children to be open to new textures in their mouth.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

I agree that people simply forced their kids to eat or the kids went hungry. My parents weren't that harsh and yet they forced us to eat. "Just three bites and then you can get up." I choked it down even though it tasted disgusting. My sister opted for the starvation for principle method.

I have one picky eater and one adventurous eater. My picky eater would live on almond butter sandwiches and bananas, if I let him. He appears to have a lot of sensory issues and he has an incredibly sensitive palate. For example, when he first tasted Sprite (by accident; he thought it was water), he yelled, "It's spicy!! It's spicy water!!". My youngest, same parents and same upbringing, will eat nearly anything, including spicy Indian dishes.

It's easy to be dismissive of what other people deal with, when you have no personal experience with it. I did it myself on my very own stroller thread. Neither of my kids used a stroller past 18 months, because they would simply walk along and hold my hand (with carrying intervals). So it's easy to me to boggle over all the people with older kids in strollers, because I have no personal experience with their challenges. I have no personal experience with a kid who runs off, so it's hard for me to understand the challenges of the parent who has a kid who runs off. It's easy to boggle about picky eaters, when you truly don't have personal experience with one.

I acknowledge that there are kids who have been raised on junk who therefore only eat brand-name junk. But there's a whole area of pickiness that has nothing to do with junk food or mainstream food. And if you haven't experienced it yourself, you can take my word for it that it's very very hard. I'm sure you have your own parenting challenges that I simply can't wrap my head around either.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

My son who is HFA is a very picky eater-- he eats three things. His BMI is 14 (skin and bones). I'm happy when he eats anything-- even if it's unhealthy. There's no candy in the house but we do have packaged foods and cookies. I am the only healthy eater in the house...







.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I do think there is a strong message in popular culture that "kids like X and kids don't like Y".

Think of the restaurants who have kid menus. Now, for a kid who has sensory issues or other developmental issues, yeah, knowing you can always get a hamburger or chicken nuggets can be great, but for other kids, it can often be used as a crutch to avoid introducing new foods.

And the more kids are told "you only like X" the more they are going to believe it, and then demand only those foods, which reinforces the belief that kids only like X.

We had a party years back that served shish kabobs, smoked salmon, and cut veggies. One attendee brought her kids and got all pissed because "kids won't eat that". Well, in fact her kids DID eat it. One devoured most of the smoked salmon (which I don't even like). She was shocked - she had never even served them any fish other than tuna because she firmly believed "kids don't like fish".

What bugs me is the common beliefs that there are only a few appropriate kid friendly foods. Hey, if your kid will only eat three things, fair enough - you do what you do to keep em alive. I only take issue when it seems that kids' tastes are determined by popular culture, rather than personal opinions or needs.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
This is also I think a HUGE part of the problem, and especially contributes to the obesity and eating disorder problem in this country. I myself have both of those problems, and I swear it's because food has become so...so..._socialized_, instead of something that's a necessity for basic survival, kwim? Instead of food being something you eat to fuel your body, you eat food to comfort, to celebrate, to numb, to show off, to display wealth, to gather the family....a whole host of reasons other than "because I'm hungry." I have to make a CONSCIOUS effort to NOT eat when I'm not hungry. I have years of programming from my family to undo. I also have a hard time stopping eating when I'm full.







It's insane. It drives me NUTS.

I have the same issues, and I'm CONVINCED it's because I was forced to sit at the table until 8 oclock at night if I didn't eat my dinner. My mom was a single mom, she worked hard to put food on the table, and dammit you better eat it! To this day I have a *HARD* time walking away when there is food on my plate. If I take the right portion size for my hunger I'm fine, but pushing the plate away with food on it is hard. I was trained from an early age that hunger meant nothing, not wasting the food was what mattered. That is why I'm such a huge believer in baby led solids.. but that doesn't really have anything to do pickiness per se.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
What bugs me is the common beliefs that there are only a few appropriate kid friendly foods. Hey, if your kid will only eat three things, fair enough - you do what you do to keep em alive. I only take issue when it seems that kids' tastes are determined by popular culture, rather than personal opinions or needs.

I experienced this very thing tonight. We went to a traditional Indian restaurant, and they have EXCELLENT exotic Indian food (complete with goat, lamb, and everything.. so good!), so when our waitress brought us a children's menu I was a little surprised. It was like night and day compared to the rest of menu. It was chicken nuggets, pizza bagels, french fries, and grilled cheese. You know what DD ended up eating? A pretty spicy chicken vindaloo with jasmine rice.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

Hey, for once I will talk about myself instead of ds with his sensory issues. lol.

I was a picky eater. It stemmed partly from food allergies, but mostly from my dad's food allergies. Because of his allergies, we didn't have a lot of variety like many people do, and what we had was very bland. I also had parents who didn't try and force me to eat if I didn't want to eat.

However, one of the babysitters my parents left me at was evil about food. They always tried to rub it in my mom's face that _they_ could get me to eat things that she said I didn't like. What my mom never knew though was that I was terrified of not eating something. I usually had a pocketful of spit out food until I went to the bathroom and flushed it down. These people had no problems using a belt to make their point, so I didn't really think I had an option, and since their kids got beat when they threw up, and I knew my stomach couldn't handle it, I learned a sneakier way to deal with it. I left there just famished most of the time. Luckily, it wasn't an everyday thing to stay there, but I still have nightmares about it.

My poor mom too. She was a young mom and this lady was her friend. She just had no idea how much I hated being there, and there weren't a lot of options for babysitting on the rare occasions that she needed one.

So yeah, I wasn't as picky there, but I was also hungry a lot. If that would have been my normal life, I probably would have ended up very malnourished.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 

We had a party years back that served shish kabobs, smoked salmon, and cut veggies. One attendee brought her kids and got all pissed because "kids won't eat that". Well, in fact her kids DID eat it. One devoured most of the smoked salmon (which I don't even like). She was shocked - she had never even served them any fish other than tuna because she firmly believed "kids don't like fish".

What bugs me is the common beliefs that there are only a few appropriate kid friendly foods. Hey, if your kid will only eat three things, fair enough - you do what you do to keep em alive. I only take issue when it seems that kids' tastes are determined by popular culture, rather than personal opinions or needs.

This is a good point. I do try to get my ds to eat just about anything, as experience has taught me that sometimes he'll surprise us. One of his favorite foods in the world is black beans and rice. Something I REFUSED to eat as a child (I honestly didn't like the taste....musta been my mom's cooking, which isn't all that spectacular...







: ). He also loves garlic and parmesean couscous and saffron rice. Yet the kid won't touch a small slice of pear or apple, 'cause they're green. Go figure.









JenniferZ, that is awful.







Did you ever tell your mom the truth?


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....


I have to agree with this. DH and I totally accomodated DS's pickiness when he was smaller, always bringing food he liked because we were just "Sure" that he wouldn't eat anything else. So now we're dealing with him still wanting to only eat things he likes, and unwilling to try anything new AT ALL.

It's frustrating and we've totally brought this on ourselves. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.

There are kids out there with real disorders that drive the selective eating, and I don't even categorize them under the "Picky Eater" title because it's not "Pickiness" that's driving what they will or won't (or can't) eat, but I don't think the majority of picky eaters are dealing with a disorder so much as overindulgent parents like myself and DH.

Case in point, one of our nephews is a proclaimed picky eater. At the last christmas get together, he pointed to a cookie on the table with raspberry jam. He asked what it was, and if it was good. I told him it was a cookie (what 6 year old boy doesn't like cookies?) and that he should try it to decide if it was good to him. Just as he reached for it, his mom reached over, grabbed the cookie and said "You won't like that!" and handed him an oreo. So yeah, I see that a lot of the pickiness is driven in the earlier years by the parents, and then the parents beat their chests later wondering how they could have raised such a picky eater.

DH and I are doing that right now


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SquishyKitty* 
Case in point, one of our nephews is a proclaimed picky eater. At the last christmas get together, he pointed to a cookie on the table with raspberry jam. He asked what it was, and if it was good. I told him it was a cookie (what 6 year old boy doesn't like cookies?) and that he should try it to decide if it was good to him. Just as he reached for it, his mom reached over, grabbed the cookie and said "You won't like that!" and handed him an oreo.

That's insane.







:







:

Yeah, no mom I know who has a kid with a feeding disorder would EVER do that, unless she knew the food would cause a physiologic problem (like an allergic reaction, airway difficulties, etc.). If your kid has a feeding disorder and actually VOLUNTARILY reaches to eat something new, you practically hold your breath with anticipation, trying to contain your urge to scream, "YES!! YES!! EAT IT!! YOU'LL LIKE IT!! JUST TRY IT!!"







Then if they actually EAT it, you're turning cartwheels and calling your mom and all your friends to tell them what your kid ate. LOL.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I think this issue is fairly complicated. Yes, there are parents out there who assume their kids won't like or try anything other than stereotypical kid food. However, there is also a huge variety of people in the world, some of whom have more sensitive palates than others. There are "supertasters," for instance, to whom many vegetables taste very bitter (they also don't like coffee, spicy foods, and lots of other things). This is biological fact. And as seen in this thread, some people are very legitimately sensory-sensitive.

I don't think the picky eater is solely a creation of 21st-century America. Throughout history, it seems, there have been children who were "poor eaters," and mothers who despaired. I've run across this many times in literature from way back when to now.

I also believe that pickiness is actually developmentally ingrained/appropriate from about 2-4. I think this is probably a biological development that helped to keep children safe as they weaned. If you're off in the forest learning to eat solids and you happily eat whatever, no matter how bitter, sour, or foul, you may get sick!

My kid did eat almost anything from about 12 months to almost two. Curry, Chinese food, spicy tofu, Gorgonzola...you name it. My, wasn't I self-satisfied.







Then she turned two and started turning up her nose at things left and right. Today she is probably not more than "average picky," but she did not maintain her early adventurous palate, for sure. It was really like someone flipped a switch, and it convinced me that the issue was within her, not about my parenting.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Does anyone else have parents/ even grandparents, who their siblings refer to as being "the delicate one?" My dad was always "delicate"- my grandma's words, and as an adult his food tastes were conservative to an extreme. Same breakfast every day, same lunch every workday, dinner rotated around maybe 10-14 different meals. Whilst he had genuine health issues at one point as well, they didn't develop until well after the point that he'd got stuck in his rut with his label. It makes me wonder how many other kids did this, got this label and some maybe even potentially actually chose to starve themselves. After all, our infant/ childhood mortality rate from illness is a lot lower than it was for our parents and grandparents generation.

My grandad had an allotment, btw, so the family had fresh vegetables and things like that.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
I also believe that pickiness is actually developmentally ingrained/appropriate from about 2-4. I think this is probably a biological development that helped to keep children safe as they weaned. If you're off in the forest learning to eat solids and you happily eat whatever, no matter how bitter, sour, or foul, you may get sick!

That's an interesting interesting thought. But what about all the safe foods that are bitter and sour? Many lettuces and greens are bitter, tough and chewy, and must be cooked down in order to be palatable. And tasty. Many wild fruits are much more bitter then their conventionally grown counter parts.

And then what about the poisonous plants that have no taste at all? Or ones that are very easily mistaken for edible, such as mushrooms?

Plus, I have no doubt that even our ancestors prepared food for their children to eat, as opposed to children running through the forest plucking fruits and leaves from the trees.

I don't believe that being picky or avoidant of bitter, sour, etc foods is a biological instinct, as evidenced by the wide awry of foods that pocess characteristics not indicative of their toxicity, such as poisonous mild foods, and edible bitter foods.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

But what about all the safe foods that are bitter and sour? Many lettuces and greens are bitter, tough and chewy, and must be cooked down in order to be palatable. And tasty. Many wild fruits are much more bitter then their conventionally grown counter parts.
Well, sure...it's obviously not 100% reliable as a rule. But I could see how the "spit it out" instinct whenever anything tastes "funny" could be very adaptive. Probably better to overspit than underspit.

It's just a pet theory of mine, really.









ETA: I just did a bit of a search on this.

"Give a child something bitter to eat and the reaction you get is pure survival instinct. Since rancid food and many poisonous plants do taste bitter, we are built to spit out bitter foods early in life, when growth and development are at their peak."

http://health.asiaone.com/Health/Eat...609-13090.html

This is also interesting:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1698869


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think that in the past, kids were basically given the choice to eat what was available or not eat. The kids were always involved in food preparation, which makes them more interested in eating the final product. I personally suspect that most pioneer women were too busy to worry about who ate what at the dinner table, or to worry about how much a toddler was nursing. So, if the 1yo or 2yo didn't eat anything from the table, he or she could nurse later. Snacking may have been available as well, as the kids were with the women all day, and women spent most of the day in food preparation. If you're spending the day gathering berries or harvesting carrots, I'm sure there's plenty of snacking going on!

The kids with true sensory issues or food allergies probably didn't eat very much, became "sickly" and may not have survived early childhood.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I'm sure there are many factors, as others have mentioned, but I suspect one primary factor is the addictiveness of modern foods. Modern processed food is much sweeter than most foods found in nature, and for a child who is acclimated to this extra sweetness, natural foods are going to taste substandard. I know that children who are raised on natural foods can be exposed to HFCS-laden flavor-engineered foods as adults and become accustomed to it, so I would guess that it would be worse for children actually raised on the artificial stuff.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Probably better to overspit than underspit.











Quote:

"Give a child something bitter to eat and the reaction you get is pure survival instinct. Since rancid food and many poisonous plants do taste bitter, we are built to spit out bitter foods early in life, when growth and development are at their peak."
My daughter loves pickles, lemons, green olives, hot sauce, etc. All spicey, bitter, sour stuff. She'd never survive in the forrest.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *norajane* 
When in history did having a "picky eater" become common? Can you imagine the american pioneers having a child that refused to eat dinner because they didn't like it.......every night?

From a history perspective, this is a very interesting question. Ever since Aries published Centuries of Childhood in the 1960s, there's been a back and forth about how people thought about childhood. I wonder how you would research this question, overall.

There are diaries by pioneer women available--I have one at home of a woman who lived in sod house under harsh conditions, but it's not where I am now--I wonder if they even considered this question? My guess is that if their children found some staple food really unpalatable, they would be worried that the child was ill or that the food had gone bad. Or they would wish they could afford fat and sugar to make it more palatable for everyone, or something.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *norajane* 
Where does it start? Is it about having too many choices? Is it the fact that we as Americans have access to huge amounts of food and we have never really had to worry about food shortages?
Is there any way to prevent it?

I don't think this is a specifically American issue. I think children's likes and dislikes are a combination of individual tastes, whether they've been introduced to foods before, and cultural factors. If your child doesn't have a feeding disorder, and you feed the child what you like to eat anyway, you should be able to achieve a modus vivendi. Unless your diet is very limited, or you are trying to feed the child something that's "healthier" than what you like yourself, it should work out.

Or maybe my kid is just too easy. He doesn't like everything, but through the magic of just not freaking out about it, I am managing to feed him a healthful diet.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
That's insane.







:







:

Yeah, no mom I know who has a kid with a feeding disorder would EVER do that, unless she knew the food would cause a physiologic problem (like an allergic reaction, airway difficulties, etc.). If your kid has a feeding disorder and actually VOLUNTARILY reaches to eat something new, you practically hold your breath with anticipation, trying to contain your urge to scream, "YES!! YES!! EAT IT!! YOU'LL LIKE IT!! JUST TRY IT!!"







Then if they actually EAT it, you're turning cartwheels and calling your mom and all your friends to tell them what your kid ate. LOL.

Now, see, I _might_
discourage my son from eating something that I was 90% certain he wouldn't like, depending upon the situation. This is only because having a taste of something he doesn't like could really turn into a scene involving spitting a screaming - and if we've just arrived at a party or something that I don't want to leave just yet. . . However, I would never, ever, ever pull the "you won't like that" card. I would be more likely to steer him towards something that I know he would like. And, ftr, a cookie with raspberry jelly would definitely be somethign I would steer him away from.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
My kid heard @#!% Caillou* say he didn't like vegetables, now she says she doesn't like vegetables.

_Damn you, evil Caillou! Damn you straight to hell!!!_

*known in our house as "that whiner Caillou"









Dd really likes Caillou! He _is_ a bit of a wimp, isn't he?? Funny.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
<snip> There are "supertasters," for instance, to whom many vegetables taste very bitter (they also don't like coffee, spicy foods, and lots of other things). This is biological fact. And as seen in this thread, some people are very legitimately sensory-sensitive.
<snip>
I also believe that pickiness is actually developmentally ingrained/appropriate from about 2-4. I think this is probably a biological development that helped to keep children safe as they weaned. If you're off in the forest learning to eat solids and you happily eat whatever, no matter how bitter, sour, or foul, you may get sick!


My mom always said I was a "supertaster"... Apparently it has something to do with a larger olfactory bulb... Supertasters are usully super-smellers, too.

I have heard, and like the theory about primal instincts re; food, too, and it stands to reason that'd be the case. In the world of unprocessed natural foods, it seems the edible and non-bitter would out-number the possibly-edible and bitter.

Even some of the stuff that _is_ edible, has to be cooked to be palatable, like *North* said, and in it's natural original state, the human body didn't eat cooked things... uncooked, some of those things could make you quite incontinent, or worse.

Also, something that occurred to me... I remember when dd was a babe, someone here told me about how little ones transitioning to solids will naturally 'reject' foods they (their bodies) know to be bad for them; things they're sensitive to or allergic to. Dd did it with banana. She used to spit it out and shake her head and say Nonono... She gets horribly constipated for 3 days from ONE banana. But her Nana pushed 'em on her (thanks, Mom) so now she has something of a taste for them (tho, thankfully it isn't her favorite) and thus I'm forever trying to have her chase them with prune juice and/or oatmeal.

Maybe as we're teaching our children to listen to their bodies, own their bodies, etc, and letting them know their voices are being heard when it comes to decisions about their bodies (Basic APing, and Unconditional Parenting, etc)... they're doing _just those things._ Finding autonomy. And more and more kids are being raised more and more in this fashion, so of course what _our_ parents called pickiness would be on the rise.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Now, see, I _might_
discourage my son from eating something that I was 90% certain he wouldn't like, depending upon the situation. This is only because having a taste of something he doesn't like could really turn into a scene involving spitting a screaming - and if we've just arrived at a party or something that I don't want to leave just yet. . . However, I would never, ever, ever pull the "you won't like that" card. I would be more likely to steer him towards something that I know he would like. And, ftr, a cookie with raspberry jelly would definitely be somethign I would steer him away from.

Really, well shut my mouth. We'll encourage and cheer ds on to try anything he's not allergic to. What I DON'T like is when people go haphazardly PUTTING food in ds's mouth (yes, it's happened...grrr) and he cries and sputters and chokes.









Well it makes sense on your part then, if food is going to set off behavior then yeah, steer 'em away.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

In an online archive of historical parenting "texts" I found a passage that deeply disturbed me. I haven't been able to find the book since (I turned it up accidentally while looking for something else).

The passage was about making a child obedient and a fathers duty to help the mother do so. And the case in question was a 15 month old refusing to eat what was prepared.

And the response? Beating. Literally. With a stick. And refusing to give the child any other food or drink until they ate what was in front of them.

This was, IIRC, a "mainstream" book of Victorian parenting. The passage ended with explaining if you did this to a child before they were 18 months old, you'd wind up with an obedient child that would eat whatever was placed in front of him and respect his elders.

Both my parents have memories of them or their siblings being *forced* to eat by their parents or grandparents. Forced as in - 'if you get up from this table without having eaten that, you will be spanked," or forced as in "If you do not eat this now, you will get it for breakfast, and for lunch, and for every meal until you eat it all and earn new food." Such tactics were not uncommon, and sure - the result might be a child who would eat on command, they didn't necessarilyi result in an adult who would willingly eat that food.

On the subject of adaptive behavior. I've read a related theory about pickiness which was that (as the other theory states) pickiness kicks in right around the usual age of weaning in humans. And groups of humans living in uncertain circumstances have been shown to parcel out food in proportion to the effort the recipients are putting towards community survival. If a child were williing to readily eat lots of low-calorie, low-energy foods, its likely that it would be fed *primarily* on such foods so that the higher-energy foods would be given to the older adults (and, in many societies, the men). I think the quote from the article was "If you're willing to eat grass clippings that's all you'll be given." Pickiness tends towards preferring fatty, carby, foods whenever possible - high energy stuff.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I read something recently about how the average american child eats much more calories and portion sizes than children elsewhere (Japan was mentioned as a place where children regularly eat 1/3rd the calories on average than an American child does).

So I wonder if some pickiness is due to some kids just not wanting to eat as much as we (mistakenly) think they need to because our own portion sizing is so out of wack?

Also, I just read this article in new scientist about a program which is doing great things to encourage kids to eat fruits and veg - the side bar (quoted below) talks about the media influence over kids food preferences.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...d-obesity.html

Quote:

*Fighting flab on TV*

However successful the Food Dudes programme is, children will still face a torrent of tempting TV ads for unhealthy food. The good news is that research from Australia suggests that "counter adverts" promoting healthy foods do register with children and can change their eating habits.

"Changing the food advertising environment to one where nutritious foods are promoted and junk foods are relatively unrepresented would help to normalise and reinforce healthy eating," says Helen Dixon of the Centre for Behavioural Research in Cancer at the Cancer Council Victoria in Carlton, Victoria. "From our experiment, children who viewed healthy food ads showed significantly more positive attitudes towards [healthy] foods compared with beforehand," she says.

More than 900 children from schools in Melbourne participated in the study, which tested their attitudes to healthy eating and probed their TV viewing habits. It showed that junk food advertisements, which account for 81 per cent of food ads on commercial TV in Australia, do exert an influence on children's eating habits.

Children who watched 28 hours of TV per week were 18 per cent more likely than those who watched 7 hours to have positive attitudes to junk foods, and were 14 per cent more likely to like junk food. When the children viewed adverts for healthy as well as junk food, the researchers found that the healthy-eating message did register, despite the ads for junk food.

"Our results support the proposition that increasing the number of ads for nutritious food at times when children watch TV may serve to promote the appeal of these foods," says Dixon, whose team's results appear online in Social Science & Medicine (DOI: 10.1016/j.socscimed.2007.05.011).


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

One of my kids has "done" the food dudes at school. His response? "What's the big deal?" Then again, this is the child who puts raw spinach in his sandwiches for school without being asked.

One thing I will say is that whenever the "what has your toddler eaten today" thread comes up, I'm always surprised by how much more the transatlantic tots seem to eat than my three.


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## annethcz (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
But I have also asked the same question re; Americanized eating habits. I think it's part of our standardized luxury. We take our food for granted a little, even in the most evolved home. You know Etheopians don't have the luxury of wheat-allergy-diagnosis or lactose intolerance... That's totally a luxury. Just being part of a society that has the luxury of being able to determine dietary needs on such a level plays a big role in the attitude our children have about food, the food-climate they live in dictates a lot of it, I think.

To start with, all Ethiopians do not live a hand-to-mouth, impoverished life. Yes, some do, but there are many upper-class and middle-class Ethiopians who do have the luxury of having food allergies.

Second, in Ethiopia, the traditional grain is teff, which is usually eaten in the form of injera, which is sort of a fermented flat-bread that resembles a crepe. So people, especially poorer people who don't have money to buy western luxuries, don't have to worry too much about wheat allergies







As for lactose intollerance, yes that is an issue for some people, and as a result they don't drink milk. I'm not an expert when it comes to Ethiopian food, but when I was in Ethiopia, it didn't appear that dairy was as common a food as it is in the US.

Okay, back to the original topic: as others posted, I have seen parents 'cater' to their children's food pickiness. But I believe that the abundance of food we currently have in this country makes it easier to allow kids to be picky (and again, I do see a difference between being picky- _I will only eat a sandwich if it's made on a bun, I will not eat bread_ and sensory issues)


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....

i totally agree. My husband is a picky eater and I swore my kids would not be. we don't indulge it for a second (they are not gong to die if they skip one meal). I don't make a big deal if they are not hungry enough to eat what is in front of them but I don't bow to their whims either.

I highly recommend the book Fat Land which talks a lot about how American eating habits have changed. There is a really good section about how societies and trends influence children's eating habits.

I also think kids get spoiled by eating processed foods. I know I became a much pickier eater the more crap I ate (due to poverty etc i grew up on a surprisingly whole foods diet minus the white bread, margerine and koolaid and only after a ,moved out of the house and started eating crap did I start becoming picky). The pickiest kids i know are the ones who eat a lot of fast food and processed junk.

and please. . .being a picky eater has nothing to do with a with medical disorder. some kids are picky. some parents are enablers (My kids won't eat that before even offering it to the child)

I guess it has never occurred to me to factor in amount to pickiness. I define a picky eater as the kid who constantly says "i don't like that, I don't eat that, fix me something else, kids don't eat that, I can't eat that" etc. . . (like the kid next door). My kids don't always eat a lot but I wouldn't classify any of them as true picky eaters. they all have their likes and dislikes but are usually willing to try something.

I think choice has a lot to do with it. I work at a grocery store and am appalled by the amount of choice people have (do we really need 25 different kinds of canned green beans?). I have also noticed that haw picky someone is about something is directly related to how many choices they have. There was an issue with ciggarettes the other night. people are generally very picky. but since our supply was severely limited people were suddenly willing to take what was available without complaint. but if we have 150 different kinds available and other stores to choose from they will whine about their particular flavor in the wrong container. limit their choices to 5 and no one else is still open - suddenly "whatever you have is fine". Some people were excited to try something new or felt like they had one a prize because they found something they liked (even if it wasn't their usual). It was kinda crazy to watch. I think people are the same way about food. I stand in the grocery store i work at and just marvel at the amount of choices. and how many of those choices are relatively the same thing. I think we really do cater to pickiness as a society.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....

I believe this IS the case sometimes. I'm thinking in particular that huge thread about MSIL and CSIL, where CSIL brought a jar of peanut butter and bread to MSIL's dinner table every night because she said her children wouldn't eat anything else. Lo and behold, when MSIL put her foot down and didn't allow the peanut butter at the table, CSIL's kid ate shrimp, etc.









When I hear people say that their kid will only eat chicken nuggets or whatever, it makes me wonder how they came to taste them in the first place. You don't develop a taste for what you've never had.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

I've just skimmed the thread.

My ex-FIL, who is over 60yo, is one of the pickiest people I know.

His parents were poor immigrants from Poland and Russia, and he grew up eating things like head-cheese, liver and tongue, borsch, and tons of cabbage. He liked almost none of it, and was forced to eat it or go hungry, since there wasn't anything else to eat.

So, when he entered the adult world, he decided that he'd never again eat something he didn't like. He never tries new foods, and since his wife catered to his eating habits and attitudes, they created picky kids.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
The pickiest kids i know are the ones who eat a lot of fast food and processed junk.

I wasn't going to be the one to say it (







), but I agree!

When talking about car seats and older children still rear facing, the most common argument is "if they've done it from birth they don't know any better, so why flip them now?". And I believe the same is true for JUNK food. If all they've known from birth is whole, unprocessed foods, why give them the option for junk?

That's sort of my take on the whole juice issue, which I just discussed yesterday with my friend. She commented on how much water my daughter drank and how she wished her kids drank more water, meanwhile they were walking around with caprisuns. My answer was simply that DD didn't know juice even existed, so how could she have a preference for it? My friend acknowledged the merit to that argument and we both concluded that in order for a child to have a preference for one food item over another, they must have been introduced to that food at some point in their lives. Hence the over indulgence of our children.

She fully admitted to over indulging her children because she feared they weren't eating enough, and had pressure from her parents, the doctors, the neighbors.. society basically, to maintain a predetermined growth curve. "Oh you don't want apple slices? You must be hungry, you should eat SOMETHING, here, have a handful of gerber puffs." And so on and so forth.

For her it was a progressive effort to get her kids to eat, when in hindsight she thinks they just weren't hungry, that they got the taste for JUNK food. I don't find it a huge coincidence that with this mindset things like childhood obesity, diabetes, etc, are on the rise.

So this begs the question.. which would you rather have; a hungry kid, or one who will get cancer in 30 years because all they'll eat is Kraft Mac and Cheese with Soda?









Seems like a catch 22 to me. Damned if you, damned if you don't.







:


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't mind a hungry kid at all. Not gonna hurt a kid to go a few hours without eating. if they get hungry enough they will eat what is in front of them.

i guess we just don't have enough to money to get everyone exactly what it is they prefer. They have a few seriuos aversions (as do I) and we respect that. again, don't have the money to be wasting food. if they have given a good try and still can't force it down we just don't bother with it. However, if they just aren't feeling like chicken tonight too bad. they can either eat it or wait until breakfast. and surprisingly they do this with pretty good atitudes most of the time. they know they will not starve.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annethcz* 
As for lactose intollerance, yes that is an issue for some people, and as a result they don't drink milk. I'm not an expert when it comes to Ethiopian food, but when I was in Ethiopia, it didn't appear that dairy was as common a food as it is in the US.

Well, my understanding is that it's a huge issue for most of the world, and it's only a fluke that people of European descent or whatever are able to eat so much dairy.

Most people when weaned become somewhat lactose intolerant, like in Asian cultures and such, just like most animals do.


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

> The pickiest kids i know are the ones who eat a lot of fast food and processed junk.[/
> 
> I wonder about kids who just dont even try anything. They do not know what it is, or what it tastes like. They dont know if it is a vegetable, or a chocolate cookie, if we didnt name it. What about those kids? Oh, wait, my son is one of those kids.
> 
> ...


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Yes, I agree with to many choices and indulgance.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Transitions said:


> Quote:
> 
> For a year now, I have offered my son healthy, choice foods, along with one familiar food that I know he will eat(bread slice, meat, baked fries) and he still. ONe year later, does not eat the other food. Is this because I have not made is available? No. Is this because he eats only fast food? No. When do we(the parents of these kids) stop wasting food by offering it, only to have it dejected?? How much food must we throw away before we *cater* only to our child and save the other foods we know they have not touched in over a year?
> Why are you throwing anything away? Why is it that no one else is eating it at the table? If you make too much at each meal why not cut down?


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

Quote:

Why are you throwing anything away? Why is it that no one else is eating it at the table? If you make too much at each meal why not cut down?
I am talking about lunch, when it is just me and ds. Or other times it is just ds and I. Ds 2 is at his dads a lot, so he is not there. I will make say, a pot of steamed veggies for me or anything really, pancakes, waffles, eggs, and put a little on ds(3) plate, for him to try. I am not going to eat it, as I have already eaten, and it is a little portion.
And yes, I do throw away what is not eaten. (otherwise I would be bigger than i already am!!!)


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

-Transitions, your son sounds a lot like mine. I have given up putting vegetables (as well as many other foods) on his plate, because then there's a good chance that nothing on the plate will be eaten at all (and not because he's not hungry, but because he's freaking out that that unfamiliar food might touch one of his non-offending foods, or because the smell is gagging him, or he's having a panic attack at the thought of eating it, or. . .) I've always offered him a wide variety of choices, and my younger two kids will eat almost anything (even with ds1's "bad" example to learn from), so I'm pretty certain there's nothing I'm doing parenting-wise that's causing it. Between his sensory issues and his ridiculously high anxiety surrounding so many things, it's not worth it to continue to poke and prod him. And while I understand that not all "picky" eaters have the same issues that my son does, I still feel a lot of judgment about what he eats withing the NFL community. Thankfully, many of his rejected foods are ones I don't want him to eat anyway - I don't need to worry about him eating blue applesauce, because he won't eat any apple sauce! Gogurt? Not a problem, as he'll only eat a specific brand and flavor of yogurt, packaged in a single serving, presealed container (to be sure that no one replaced it with some other kind of yogurt) Soda? Too spicy! Fruit juice or those disgusting fruit "drinks"? OJ is okay, but that's all. Fruit roll ups? Too sticky. Chicken nuggets? Too spicy. Ad infinitum.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annethcz* 
To start with, all Ethiopians do not live a hand-to-mouth, impoverished life. Yes, some do, but there are many upper-class and middle-class Ethiopians who do have the luxury of having food allergies.

Second, in Ethiopia, the traditional grain is teff, which is usually eaten in the form of injera, which is sort of a fermented flat-bread that resembles a crepe. So people, especially poorer people who don't have money to buy western luxuries, don't have to worry too much about wheat allergies







As for lactose intollerance, yes that is an issue for some people, and as a result they don't drink milk. I'm not an expert when it comes to Ethiopian food, but when I was in Ethiopia, it didn't appear that dairy was as common a food as it is in the US.

Okay, back to the original topic: as others posted, I have seen parents 'cater' to their children's food pickiness. But I believe that the abundance of food we currently have in this country makes it easier to allow kids to be picky (and again, I do see a difference between being picky- _I will only eat a sandwich if it's made on a bun, I will not eat bread_ and sensory issues)

I'm really glad you posted this and I'm a little ashamed at generalizing to such a degree that another mom felt compelled to call me on it... but I'm glad you did. I honestly struggled for a minute about whether to refer to Etheopians... I was looking for an impactful image-based analogy and I totally grew up on "We Are the World" and will forever have the images of that time (all focused on the poverty and starvation in Etheopia at the time, and very general).

The point I _intended_ to make was attendant to the fact that we don't hear about the same dietary complexities from impoverished cultures who have less access to variety.

You said it perfectly with :

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annethcz* 
_But I believe that the abundance of food we currently have in this country makes it easier to allow kids to be picky_


Again, I want to apologize (to anyone else, too, that may have been offended) for generalizing... It totally derailed my point, and reflected poorly on me... Thanks again for the gentle nudge!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I don't have a picky eater. We eat only whole foods, so my comments will be very skewed, but I do believe it's because kids get programmed early in their lives to "like" these processed foods instead of real food. Commercialism is certainly a culprit too.

I was a picky eater (still am, in some ways) and my mom never fed us crap. A whole lot of what we ate was right out of her garden. DS1 wasn't picky at all when he was very small, but became picky at about 7...and aside from a few veggies, a lot of what he didn't like was the processed crap.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
That's sort of my take on the whole juice issue, which I just discussed yesterday with my friend. She commented on how much water my daughter drank and how she wished her kids drank more water, meanwhile they were walking around with caprisuns. My answer was simply that DD didn't know juice even existed, so how could she have a preference for it? My friend acknowledged the merit to that argument and we both concluded that in order for a child to have a preference for one food item over another, they must have been introduced to that food at some point in their lives. Hence the over indulgence of our children.

I actually had a similar conversation with two moms who told me how lucky I was that ds1 (then 8) didn't spend all his time playing video games. Um...no...because that's not an option. Plus, I did take him to the park and stuff. Both these moms told me I was "brave" whenever I took a few (usually 4 or 5) kids to the park!

I'm finding this whole discussion interesting. However, it still makes me shake my head. I was picky. I'm still picky. It wasn't indulged - I ate what I was given (mom was good about not giving me mushrooms, as I'm still convinced they're _all_ poisonous, and I can't believe anyone can choke them down), or I waited until the next meal. If I came back after dinner saying, "I'm hungry", I was given my uneaten supper. It made no difference whatsoever. My brother and sister, who were raised the same way, were always far more adventurous eaters than I was. These days, I'm slightly more adventurous than my sister, but it's been a constant effort.

I believe picky eaters have always existed, and I do think they used to be (and still are in some families) forced to eat whatever was served. One poster here was talking about her...FIL, maybe?...and said that he made his kids into picky eaters by indulging them - but she also talked about how he was a picky eater because he never had a choice. So, which way does it work?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Between his sensory issues and his ridiculously high anxiety surrounding so many things, it's not worth it to continue to poke and prod him

See...this is me. I don't think I have or had sensory issues (unless you count the fact that "properly" cooked - rare - meat has a texture that makes me gag), but I definitely had/have anxiety about things that are unfamiliar. With respect to food, it manifests as "pickiness". With respect to social situations, it manifests as social phobia. I hate to travel. One of the reasons I never went on to any post-secondary education was my anxiety about being on a campus (ie. a new place). I've never lived further than about two miles from the hospital I was delivered at...and don't want to. I skip outings that I think my kids would like, because they involve going somewhere I've never been and/or meeting people I've never met. I don't think I've ever once fallen asleep my first night in a new bed...be it after a move, in a hotel while on vacation, whatever.

There's an expression "a change is as good as a rest". I know it seems to be true for a lot of people. It's not true for me. Changes...new things...aren't challenging or exciting or fun - they're scary, intimidating and cause serious anxiety. The way this impacts on my dietary habits is pretty miniscule in the grand scheme of things...but it certainly opens me to all kind of criticism from those who feel I've been overindulged or conditioned to only eat crap. _Obviously_, if my mom had fed us whole foods (she did) and hadn't indulged me (she didn't...except about mushrooms), I wouldn't be a picky eater...except that I am...


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
And while I understand that not all "picky" eaters have the same issues that my son does, I still feel a lot of judgment about what he eats withing the NFL community.

Me too. Yes, I hear you all saying on this thread, "oh, but I'm not talking about kids with sensory issues or feeding disorders," but the fact is....a lot of the time, you are. Judgement is passed all the time on mamas here who feed their kids anything less than the "MDC ideal standard" of organic, whole, non-processed, blah blah blah. You see it all the time, threads about these "substandard" parents who feed their children stuff like juice, chicken nuggets, *gasp!* cookies, etc.. Most of the time it's a mere glimpse into that parent's life, a snapshot. No one has ANY idea if that child has sensory issues or a feeding disorder, but many are more than happy to tsk tsk tsk away about what the child's horrible, neglectful mother is allowing him/her to eat.

I guess that's my point. People say they understand, but _only after you've explained yourself and your situation._ What *I* want people to start doing is when they see a mama feeding their child something they wouldn't choose, to let the thought in their head be one of "I don't know this woman, I don't know her situation, as long as the child looks healthy and happy, I need to check my judgmental side..." I have had to train myself to do this with formula and bottle feeding mothers. I used to be one of those who had all those nasty thoughts in my head when I saw a mother bottle feeding. Then I gave birth to a child with extreme feeding difficulties and had to use bottles and feed formula. I always felt like I had the hairy eyeball on me of a million other mothers sitting in judgement when I fed my ds a bottle, even if it was a bottle of _breastmilk_ (he would NOT nip...). When I had to buy a can of formula when he was a week old, my cheeks burned with shame. Why? I really had to sit down and take a good hard look at myself and the way I was passing such harsh judgement on total strangers all the time. It wasn't right, it wasn't fair, and I certainly didn't like how it felt to be on the receiving end of all that uncalled for judgement. So I decided the change must begin with me.

It's so easy to look at another mother who is pushing her child in a stroller or formula feeding or giving a bottle with juice in it or doing whatever your deem a "sin" in your parenting lexicon and pass judgement about her. It's so easy to think, "oh, that poor child, that bad mother." It takes guts to think to yourself, "you know, I don't know that woman from adam's housecat....I have NO idea what's going on in her life, what things she suffers from that are hidden, what problems she may have financially, socially, personally...for all I know, she's doing the best she can with what she has. It is not my place to pass judgement on a total stranger based on one 30 second observation." Making judgements, even if they're only in your head, only contribute to outward animocity and the mommy wars, quite frankly. What you think in your head eventually creeps into how you act, and it's only a matter of time before it's plainly obvious that you (unfairly) judge everyone around you and hold them to some standard that may simply be impossible for them to meet.

Just...ugh....just check yourselves. That's all I'm saying. I have been there. I've been the one with the sanctimonious thoughts and tsk tsk tsking in my head. I am ashamed to have been that person, but thankful that my wonderful son came into my life to humble me and teach me such valuable lessons.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
Just...ugh....just check yourselves. That's all I'm saying. I have been there. I've been the one with the sanctimonious thoughts and tsk tsk tsking in my head. I am ashamed to have been that person, but thankful that my wonderful son came into my life to humble me and teach me such valuable lessons.

I hear you. I agree that a good deal of time, judgment of another person is intentionally skewed to make the judger feel superior - when we don't have the details we need.

However, there is a challenge here. How do we fight for the ideals we believe in but not denigrate people who do not adhere to those ideals? I hate any community that needs to denigrate others to justify its existence. But there needs to be some ideals, right? Even if our ability to live up to them is far from equal?

For example, on MDC, there are certain agreed to principles - that feeding your kid organic/locally grown/non-processed/vegetarian, etc etc food is healthier than relying on fast food and so forth. I know that soda, for example, is not good for my kids. I give them soda far too often for my liking, but I do also give them a lot of water. If someone gives me a hairy eyeball for giving in to my kid's demand for sprite, I feel a bit guilty because I know I am choosing the easier way. It was a decision I made about where I was going to compromise my standards.

However, I don't feel guilty for eating non-organic, non-vegan foods. Those are choices we made for our household based on budget, personal preferences, and nutrition. We do belong to a CSA and we do sometimes buy organic fruit (the dirty dozen) - we do what we can, but I don't feel guilty about not living up to other people's standards. I may agree in general with the overall ideal of NFL/healthy living, but that doesn't mean that by not living up to the ideal, I am a bad mother.

This is completely different than neighbors of mine who actually do think that a snack of oreos and juice drink are a great snack for kids. If they want to feed that to their kids, fine, but some of them organize kids parties in our community and only offer processed sugar foods and drinks, low fiber carbs, no protein, and no veg/fruit. Or the local public school which has nasty food, no veg, all carbs, etc. etc.

How can we tease out the difference? Perhaps by avoiding judgment on individuals, but rather keep questioning received wisdom on what is "healthy"?

I dunno - I throw the question out there.

Siobhan


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

I think to lead by example, and to be gentle with your thoughts and actions towards those who do not do the same as you, is the answer. To give information when asked. To give assistance when asked. To realize that sometimes your assistance and information will not be put to good use, and that's okay. To accept the fact that in this great big world with billions and billions of people, to expect everyone to be and think and act the same as you is not only impossible, but _undesireable_. Why would we want to live in a world where everyone is the same? How boring.

The answer is, to be comfortable in your own skin, to be comfortable with your life and what you do, and to realize that it's okay for others to choose to do differently. To recognize that right now, at this very moment, some stranger is judging YOU (this is a collective "you" not singling the pp out...) for choices you make that s/he deems inappropriate and wrong, and they have just as many arguments as you do for why their belief is the "right" one. To realize that you don't have all the answers, you don't know it all, and that you don't hold the key to the parenting universe. To make your goal in life that children are loved and happy and that their parents really do try to do the best they can with what they have, and that not all parents have access to the same things and same information and same heritage. To make your goal to educate and lead by example, not by browbeating or looking down your nose or social isolation.

That is the answer.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 27, 2006)

Great posts, finch.

My DS is picky to the point where he simply will not eat. But the things he will eat are often healthy. Picky does not equal just junk food.

Does a child really have to be willing to eat anything and everything you put in front of them in order to not be judged picky? My son won't eat quinoa loaf but he also won't eat chocolate birthday cake. And I'm fine with both of those.


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## <~*MamaRose*~> (Mar 4, 2007)

Hello all! I’ve actually been away so I hadn’t read any of the responses here until today. I will admit I am a little surprised that parents of children with sensory issues took this thread so personally as when I responded to this thread it didn’t occur to me that anyone with a child that had an actual medical eating issues would have though they were being targeted. But after reading many responses from people that deal with this issue I can see why they are “raw” and I just wanted to point out that I was NEVER referring to you and your children. I do stand behind my original comment about too much variety and some parent’s choice to indulge their children with their “pickiness” but it was my mistake not to state that I was basing this on my own personal experiences. I have many friends and family who do indulge the behavior and there are no hidden food allergies or sensory issues and frankly I thought that this thread was referring to that sort of thing. As for my comment about believing that Eclipse’s comment was dramatic and over exaggerated and not the norm well that was because I was not digging back into the “way back when” achieves so yes I took her original answer as sever, my mistake and I apologize. Also, I feel the need to add that I for one really do try not to pass judgment on what strangers feed their children because I know that I feed my children all types of foods and if someone labeled me based strictly on one snapshot of their diet they may think some unpleasant thoughts about my parenting habits KWIM!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Are you saying that NEVER happens? Come on, be real. It does happen. What about parents who never encourage their kids to try new things? What about my SIL who told me her children would NEVER eat my homemade chicken pot pie, but they devoured it? She was guilty, IMO, of helping her kids with their so-called "pickiness".
Absolutely. We had a roommate last fall who would always say "Oh, they won't like that" about her kids trying new foods, but when she was out, they would eat whatever we served (and liked it).


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
Absolutely. We had a roommate last fall who would always say "Oh, they won't like that" about her kids trying new foods, but when she was out, they would eat whatever we served (and liked it).

That's my sister. She always tells me my nephew won't like this or that. He'll try _anything_ I offer him. He's now begging his mom to buy sunflower seed butter, instead of peanut butter. He hates rice, but decided to try a rice cake (didn't like it, but was willing to try it). I don't know why he's as willing to experiment as he is, because it's certainly not encouraged at his house, but I think he's going to stay this way. I hope so. She is the type who'd have her kids eating only junk...I think she gets some kind of weird mileage out of "oh, well, I can't do that - my kids won't eat it".

Picky kids can also be willing to try new foods. DS1 has become quite picky as a teen - there are many foods that he just won't eat, anymore, including some of his old favourites. However, he tried - and loves - pickled herring. He didn't bat an eyelash when dh and I decided to order Indian food for delivery one night, even though he'd never had it before. He'll try almost anything...but he dislikes a lot of things.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I don't have a picky eater. We eat only whole foods, so my comments will be very skewed, but I do believe it's because kids get programmed early in their lives to "like" these processed foods instead of real food. Commercialism is certainly a culprit too.

Haven't read all the replies yet. Ds1 could be considered a picky eater. He eats plenty of healthy foods, but the grand total of the different kinds of foods he will eat is not that huge. We also eat whole foods, but he has been exposed to sugar and junk at birthday parties, ball games, etc. I don't think he had any sugar or dairy until at least a year old, and then very very little until 3yo. We still limit it in the house, and cook with agave nectar, sucanat, etc. But he is a sugar junkie, and begs me for it all the time.

I consider myself a picky eater, not because of the variety of foods I eat, but because I cannot eat something if I'm not in the mood for it, even if it's something I normally like. I was raised in rural Canada until I was 8yo - my parents were "hippies" and all our food was whole and handmade. So while I do tend to prefer natural food, I still won't eat a banana if I'm not in the mood for it. I would prefer to go hungry. Right at the moment I am hungry, but there is nothing in our fridge I feel like eating, so I am not eating anything. There are plenty of foods I like - apples, bread, cheese, bananas, bell peppers, etc. - but nothing that sounds good to my stomach at this particular time. I would no sooner force feed my son than I would myself.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
Hello all! I've actually been away so I hadn't read any of the responses here until today. I will admit I am a little surprised that parents of children with sensory issues took this thread so personally as when I responded to this thread it didn't occur to me that anyone with a child that had an actual medical eating issues would have though they were being targeted. But after reading many responses from people that deal with this issue I can see why they are "raw" and I just wanted to point out that I was NEVER referring to you and your children. I do stand behind my original comment about too much variety and some parent's choice to indulge their children with their "pickiness" but it was my mistake not to state that I was basing this on my own personal experiences. I have many friends and family who do indulge the behavior and there are no hidden food allergies or sensory issues and frankly I thought that this thread was referring to that sort of thing. As for my comment about believing that Eclipse's comment was dramatic and over exaggerated and not the norm well that was because I was not digging back into the "way back when" achieves so yes I took her original answer as sever, my mistake and I apologize. Also, I feel the need to add that I for one really do try not to pass judgment on what strangers feed their children because I know that I feed my children all types of foods and if someone labeled me based strictly on one snapshot of their diet they may think some unpleasant thoughts about my parenting habits KWIM!

Can I gently add, here, that "Sensory issues" exist on a continuum, and many, many people have *some* sensory issues? They don't always rise to the level of a disability or a condition in need of OT or other intervention, but many people have them at some level.

And this means that in addition to normal childhood pickiness, a lot of kids do have very real (to them) objections to foods, and these are not created by coddling parents.

I've seen the result of parents assuming kids only eat "kid food." My BIL got to college before he ate anything but hot dogs and tater tots.

However: I ate wonderfully when I was pregnant. We eat well in front of the kids. We fed them homemade baby food a la "Super Baby Food." My kid loved broccoli and lentil stew, chickpeas, and sweet potatoes. At his Pakistani sitters he ate curried dal and veggies.

But he will not eat rice. He will not eat cheese. He will not, now, eat broccoli or any kind of salad green. Will not will not, can't make him. This is not for lack of exposure nor from lack of me encouraging and modelling. This is not becuase I've always relented and handed him a Lunchable instead.

And what's funny is because his "can't make me!" foods also include "kid foods" (He doesn't like tater tots or baloney or cheesey pizza, for example), people don't think of him as "picky." He is -- but he's chosen to be picky within the confines of all the good stuff we serve.

He has noticable sensory issues, but they do not interfere with daily living. And we did not/cannot get OT for them. And yet - picky

It's not like people with "those kids" get some kind of pass. Don't assume that because someone supposedly "Doesn't have sensory" that they must be coddled, spoiled, or have awful, junk food pushing parents.


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 27, 2006)

Yep, if your kid looks like he's going to cry/vomit because someone's trying to force something on him, well... that's a signal to stop, imo.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I just remembered some close family friends. Their daughter is a few years younger than me, so maybe 35 or 36? Anyway, when she was little, she wouldn't eat meat. Her parents thought she was just being picky and refused to "indulge" her. She had to eat her dinner. When she was in her teens, it was determined that she has a missing enzyme (think that's the problem - got this second-hand about five years ago, so the details are sketchy) and can't digest meat properly. She was "picky" because her body knew that the meat was taxing her systems. A picky eater not being _diagnosed_ with a medical condition is not necessarily the same thing as a picky eater not _having_ a medical condition.


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## NaomiMcC (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrugglingMomX's2* 
I say it's too many choices and IMO







: parents choosing to indulge the pickiness....


Yup.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I was a picky eater (still am, in some ways) and my mom never fed us crap. A whole lot of what we ate was right out of her garden. DS1 wasn't picky at all when he was very small, *but became picky at about 7...and aside from a few veggies, a lot of what he didn't like was the processed crap*.

If this is your oldest son from your siggy, I take it he's 14 now, or so? I'm curious what his diet is like now (because commercialism ferociously targets that very age group). You say that you were a picky eater, but it sounds like your mother didn't give you a lot of processed food. Does that mean that you eat a lot of fresh foods, but you're picky about the fresh foods? If so, (not being snarky here at all!) perhaps you modeled the behavior that came out in your son around 7 years of age? If you were being picky around him all the time, then he probably learned that being picky (among the healthy food he was given) was a good thing, because mommy is picky.

My comment about kids being programmed to like processed food... processed food has a lot of chemical fillers in them that give (imho) these foods this uniform "chemically" taste. If I eat something processed, I can taste that chemical taste. Based on my own limited experience with kids eating only processed foods (my nieces, nephews and grand-nieces and nephews), when given something fresh to eat, they say that it tastes "yucky". I had my grand nieces and nephews over a week ago and when I made fresh, homemade chicken nuggets, they said that the didn't like them. I asked them why (as my dd gobbled them up) and they said, "Because they don't taste like McDonald's chicken nuggets." (That chemical taste.) Then when I offered them some apple juice, they said, "No, we only drink the blue stuff."







: These kids do not have any sensory issues! They've simply been programmed to eat this processed fast-food because it is given to them 2 times a day.

As for the kids with sensory issues... sure, there are a lot of medical conditions that force parents to change the way their kids eat. I don't think of these kids as "picky". I took this thread question to address kids that did not have any reason to refuse food other than honest-to-goodness pickiness.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
If this is your oldest son from your siggy, I take it he's 14 now, or so? I'm curious what his diet is like now (because commercialism ferociously targets that very age group). You say that you were a picky eater, but it sounds like your mother didn't give you a lot of processed food. Does that mean that you eat a lot of fresh foods, but you're picky about the fresh foods? If so, (not being snarky here at all!) perhaps you modeled the behavior that came out in your son around 7 years of age? If you were being picky around him all the time, then he probably learned that being picky (among the healthy food he was given) was a good thing, because mommy is picky.

I doubt if ds1 even realized that I was particularly picky, because I did all the shopping and bought mostly stuff I liked (except that I bought him mushrooms sometimes).

My eating habits are complicated. I have junk food issues that flare up during emotional periods in my life, and are linked to sexual abuse when I was a very, very young (starting at about 3.5, as far as we can tell...possibly earlier). I was bribed to be silent with candy, cookies and frozen treats (popsicles, fudgesicles, etc.). So, I have...parallel eating habits. My eating is generally very healthy - lots of fresh, whole foods and such. But, when I get the urge to snack, and I'm going through a depressive episode or emotional turmoil (my miscarriages, c-sections, divorce, etc.), I turn to sugar and chocolate.

As far as real foods...I'll eat almost any veggie, except eggplant & mushrooms...and I've been thinking of trying eggplant again. There are a lot of greens that I don't often buy, because I don't know how to prepare them, and I'm not really much for exploring in the kitchen. DS1 is much more adventurous with food than I am, as are dh and ds2. DD...hard to say - she's a grazer, and generally doesn't eat very much of anything at a time. I like most fruits. I'm very, very picky about meat - it has to be cooked just right (well, in my case), and there are many kinds I just don't like...almost all lunch meats and lamb, in particular. I tend to like seafood quite well, and would happily live on salmon (which, of course, is the _one_ fish dh doesn't like - ah, well!). I've learned to eat tomato sauces - on pizza, spaghetti, chili, etc. - which I wouldn't even dream of touching until I was about 16 or 17.

DS1 has remained about as picky as he became at 7, but he'll manage something if he doesn't like what we're eating (such as leaving the sauce off his spaghetti last night). There are a few veggies he won't touch (we serve bean sprouts on the side of salads, so he'll eat the salad and he hates broccoli...which was his favourite as a small child). He is in a loving junk food phase. He went on a 2-day marine science field trip a couple of months ago, and came back telling me that he'd eaten 8 bags of Skittles on the ferry trip. UGH! He'd love to drink a ton of soda, but we don't keep it in the house, so it's a once-in-a-while thing (he mostly drinks water, with an occasional glass of milk or juice). I basically won't buy junk food for him, and if he wants it, he has to buy it from his allowance. He likes to save his allowance for big purchases, so he doesn't often buy junk.

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Based on my own limited experience with kids eating only processed foods (my nieces, nephews and grand-nieces and nephews), when given something fresh to eat, they say that it tastes "yucky".
That's interesting. My nephews and niece on my sister's side eat a _ton_ of processed junk. Yet, I'll put out a veggie tray at a birthday party, and they just stand there and gobble them up. My oldest nephew also loves pretty much everything I make for supper. His next-younger brother has only had supper here once, when I made stuffed sole (rolled-up fillets), and he loved it. Maybe it depends partly on whether the diet is _totally_ processed. My sister's kids eat a _lot_ of processed food, but they do get some home-cooked meals and at least some occasional fresh fruit or veggies for snacks and sides.

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As for the kids with sensory issues... sure, there are a lot of medical conditions that force parents to change the way their kids eat. I don't think of these kids as "picky". I took this thread question to address kids that did not have any reason to refuse food other than honest-to-goodness pickiness.
I guess I'm always hesitant to say that anyone doesn't have a reason for something. "Pickiness", to me, is too open-ended a label, and I think it can mean many different things to different people. I know my pickiness drove my mom mad - one thing I did/do is to dissect meat. I _love_ meat, but I hate meat fat. I think mom thought I was being silly, but I really did hate the taste more than I can say (still do). I'm still astonished, to this day, that some people really, honestly _like_ mushrooms. I don't have any sensory issues about it - I just can't stand the taste. I had a reason for not wanting to eat mushrooms - the taste of them was disgusting.

There's also the point I mentioned above...kids can have medical conditions, even if nobody realizes it.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

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Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
<snip>
A picky eater not being _diagnosed_ with a medical condition is not necessarily the same thing as a picky eater not _having_ a medical condition.

I mentioned this earlier, too... and stand by it.

I _wish_ my mother would have honored my body's preferences when I was younger... I naturally dispised brocoli, mac n' cheese, pizza, and most forms of melted cheese... I preferred raw uncooked veggies, white cheese (which is easier for the body to process than yellow), and lean meats like turkey and fish... my mom stuffed me to the brim with junk. White bread, french fries, ground beef, ham steaks, meat balls, white pasta, and sugar sugar sugar. Come to find, I'm violently allergic to broc... major gastritis. As well as pretty severely lactose intolerant, and wheat sensitive...

I feel I have had to begin rehabilitating my addiction to sugar, wheat, and salt... I have heard sugar referred to as the First Drug... the first truly addicitive substance agrarian humans were exposed to. It's tough... I'm totally at risk for diabetes and heart disease, and now that I'm older, the weight doesn't just fly off. I have a lot of anxiety about dd going down that road... dh feeds her the crap that he eats, and honestly seems bent on thwarting my attempts to rid the house of enriched flour products and white sugar... "I don't like _that_ sugar." He says when I put out the evaporated cane juice sugar...

*How do you we cultivate a knowledge of food as fuel, when our culture sees food as an indulgence?*


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