# Is CIO mainly an American thing??



## crnnoel (May 23, 2007)

I'm honestly just curious since it seems like other cultures wouldn't even consider CIO an option...

Just wondering what others thoughts are. Hope this is the right place to post this!


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## seoul_mama (Jul 10, 2007)

Not exactly on topic to the question you asked, but related. It's an interesting read.

"The Dr. Spock of Sleep: How Richard Ferber became the Icon he is"
http://www.slate.com/id/2142704/

I would say that cio has its roots in American culture; and given America's influence over other nations, I would imagine that other countries and cultures, particularly those that are Western and/or industrialized have adopted cio or some permutation of it.

Interesting question. I have more to say, but am also curious to read other responses.

cheers!


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## lovesdaffodils (Jul 11, 2007)

I think it's a western thing, but not just American.


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## rachellanigh (Aug 26, 2006)

It is interesting to read about the history of parenting. Have your read "The Family Bed?" I recommend it!! Great read.


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## AlbertaJes (May 11, 2006)

It's a big thing in Canada too, unfortunately.


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## dziwozony (Aug 27, 2006)

definitely not just american, but a western-culture thing in general...canada, the UK, & here in NZ. i'm not sure about other european countries....though i would guess many places there as well.


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## rzberrymom (Feb 10, 2005)

We lived in the Netherlands, and I think it's more prevalent there than in the U.S. DH is German, and it seemed pretty much the same there.


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## chemer (Jun 15, 2006)

Definitely prevalent in the UK.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I've visited Tanzania (East Africa), and saw they usually all sleep in the same "bed" or at least room. This to me rules out CIO, but I don't know for sure.

Visited China too, but didn't get any clues about CIO there.

Just wanted to throw in a few more parts of the world.


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

It's pretty normal here in Australia too - but given that a HUGE part of our culture follows America, it's not surprising.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

CIO, yes. But CC is very popular in loads of places.

Pixilixi, I'd dispute that, I've only ever heard of one Australian doing CIO, and everyone I told about it had never heard of it, either. CC, yes, but never ever CIO.

Quote:

I would say that cio has its roots in American culture; and given America's influence over other nations, I would imagine that other countries and cultures, particularly those that are Western and/or industrialized have adopted cio or some permutation of it.
Actually the British culture of a maternity nurse and strict scheduling is probably responsible, just Weissbluth took it to the radical extreme.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

My family is German, and it's very common over there.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

It's called Controlled Crying in some places, the UK and Australia and New Zealand maybe?


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## dziwozony (Aug 27, 2006)

yep, "controlled crying" here in NZ, but it comes from the UK, not the US (though the US still plays it's part). women are taught by their plunket nurses (a free healthcare system for young families) to lay your baby down in their cot (crib) & leave the room. if they cry, wait 5 min then come in & pat them & show your presence, but leave again. you're "allowed" to burp or change the nappy, but no eye contact or prolonged cuddling! the 5 min is lengthened to 10 & so on until the baby "gets it" (i.e. gives up). they seem to think it's better them all out CIO because of the checking in, but it's pretty well the same!


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

I haven't done any research, except for a few anthropology classes that touched on sleep arrangements & parenting as part of larger subjects.
My gut feeling is that it's a by-product of having seperate sleeping arrangements. I think you'd find it uncommon in cultures where co-sleeping or "family beds" are the norm.
I agree with the pp's: I'd call it a "western" thing, but not necessarily "American".


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## nascarbebe (Nov 4, 2006)

I'm Mexican but I live in the US and generally CIO is unacceptable in Mexico. Most babies cosleep until they're ready for a toddler or twin bed.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *woobysma* 
My gut feeling is that it's a by-product of having separate sleeping arrangements. I think you'd find it uncommon in cultures where co-sleeping or "family beds" are the norm.

I agree with this. I think it's unusual (but not unheard of) to find a baby who sleeps well alone. And I think it's unrealistic for most people to wake up multiple times a night to go to a different room to help their baby.


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

wannabe said:


> CIO, yes. But CC is very popular in loads of places.
> 
> Pixilixi, I'd dispute that, I've only ever heard of one Australian doing CIO, and everyone I told about it had never heard of it, either. CC, yes, but never ever CIO.
> 
> ...


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dziwozony* 
yep, "controlled crying" here in NZ, but it comes from the UK, not the US (though the US still plays it's part). women are taught by their plunket nurses (a free healthcare system for young families) to lay your baby down in their cot (crib) & leave the room. if they cry, wait 5 min then come in & pat them & show your presence, but leave again. you're "allowed" to burp or change the nappy, but no eye contact or prolonged cuddling! the 5 min is lengthened to 10 & so on until the baby "gets it" (i.e. gives up). they seem to think it's better them all out CIO because of the checking in, but it's pretty well the same!

It's my understanding that this process is also what Cry It Out is. So, CC and CIO appear to be exactly the same thing, just different names.


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## klg47 (May 20, 2003)

I knew a woman from Brazil once. She shared an apartment wall with a family who did CIO. She told me that she just wanted to go over there and hold that baby. She was good friends with the family, and whenever she had a chance she would hold the baby and rock it to sleep







I have no idea whether this was her own personal belief, or if it's widespread in Brazil.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

I think a lot of cultures let babies cry for short amounts of time but not in a formal, systemic way. They figure out if the crying needs to be attended to immediately (like with a very young infant or if their needs aren't being met) and then if the baby's just being fussy then they let them cry a bit. But not in order to teach them independence or whatever... Just because it's not as urgent at the moment to attend to it. It makes sense.


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## WildCanaryCait (Aug 9, 2006)

There is a wonderful book called 'Our Babies, Ourselves' that talks about cultural differences all over the world in childrearing..including breastfeeding, cosleeping, cio, etc....it explains *how* babies sleep cycles work, how they are wired in different areas, how we have been brainwashed to babytrain, blah blah blah! It's a fantastic read and very affirming for those who choose a 'mothering' path ....<thinking thinking> can't recall the author this minute, but ooooooo I do recommend this book.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

i know its thought of in english and new zealand mainstream society as well. according to my fil, in mexico its not.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WildCanaryCait* 
There is a wonderful book called 'Our Babies, Ourselves' that talks about cultural differences all over the world in childrearing..including breastfeeding, cosleeping, cio, etc....it explains *how* babies sleep cycles work, how they are wired in different areas, how we have been brainwashed to babytrain, blah blah blah! It's a fantastic read and very affirming for those who choose a 'mothering' path ....<thinking thinking> can't recall the author this minute, but ooooooo I do recommend this book.

The author is Meredith Small. I agree, it's a great book!


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

It's not common in South Korea. They still cosleep with much older children, and a five or six year old gets what they want... they are still babies at that age, according to my host mother, when I stayed there.


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## passionatepreggers (Jun 25, 2006)

Quote:

you're "allowed" to burp or change the nappy, but no eye contact or prolonged cuddling!
Wow. No eye contact.
This wouldn't fly if the helpless one was an adult. What BS. I'm sorry, but yuck.


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## phreedom (Apr 19, 2007)

I know at night when my DD woke up, I was ¨all business¨. I kept the room dim, I changed her diaper and fed her. I wouldn´t bring her to a brightly lit room or anything that would stimulate her too much. I still cuddled her though and would whisper to her. I just didn´t do anything to ¨rile her up¨, because I wanted her to go back to sleep. But usually as soon as I heard her rustling around in her bassinet I started feeding her,I didn´t wait until she was fully awake and crying. Many times she was still asleep/drowsy when I fed her.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

My SIL had her children and lives in New Zealand and there it is very mainstream (it was recommended to her by the nurses in the hospital). I'm not sure if they used a formal name, but CIO is what it was. My SIL said "No, I'd rather get up with her." and the nurse replied "You'll come around when you're tired enough."

In England, I know it happens because a friend (British) said that they recently had a TV ad campiegn against it (therefore, people must be doing it, but the cultural shift against it is happening there).


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

it's common in ireland. I occasionally lurk on irish parenting boards (I grew up there but live in the US) and there is a lot of talk about it.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

We have Controlled Crying (CC) here in the UK.... though from my understanding its different from CIO?.... Basically...if you ask all the 'mainstream' mothers - they will say 'Its okay to do CC after they are 6 months old' (though you get some doing it from birth!)... and 'You leave them to cry for 5 mintues, check on them, then leave them to cry for 10...then 15...then 20.... and so on'... then they will say... 'its sleep training and it works' ...'dont pick them up or cuddle them though'...etc etc...

But CIO is just leaving them to cry?

Now I am not saying any one is 'better' or 'worse' than the other...I think they are both bad...dont get me started on it! lol... I would never do it...horrible! But I know people who do 'do it'...its quite a 'normal' thing her unfortunatly


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

....reading through...

not sure about a TV ad campaing against it here...

But we have the NSPCC...
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/

and they have adds on tele to get you to donate to them... A 'help stop child abuse' charity ....

Their ads always leave me in tears I must say ...

One shows a little boy standing in a cot...all alone in a room...with a very sad face on...but he is quiet... The narrator then goes on to say ... '*childs name - cant remember it* doesnt cry anymore, becaues he knows no one will come to him' (or something like that)....

and the first thing many 'non mainstream' (lol) parents think of here is how many people here to controlled crying!


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## herilane (Jul 1, 2007)

A CC/CIO equivalent "method" exists in Sweden as well. There's a doctor who sells it as his own method. It's generally known in Sweden as the "5 minute method" - not because it works in 5 minutes but because you leave the baby for 5 minutes, and then for successively longer periods.

And it's one of those methods that's "guaranteed" by the author to work for all babies and if it doesn't work for you, then you clearly did it wrong and weren't following all the instructions properly. It's all your fault, basically, not the method's.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

of course it works!... if a baby is crying, it has a need...and if that need isnt met...the baby will give up!... If you have a strong willed child, they will need to cry for longer - some give in instantly! ...

people dont think of it like this though do they?....
Its all about how all babies are 'manipulative'....

*sigh*....

ive been on other mainstream forums and people actually ask 'how do you do cc - I want some tips/help' etc.... One person even came on a week later and was asking 'where her happy baby went'.... she couldnt see the connection!!!


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## Omsmom (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm from India and back home I'd never heard of anyone using CIO. I do know Indian families in the US that have CIO ed.


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## krabigirl (Dec 10, 2006)

It's common in France, at least from what I know from my in-laws who live there. Not sure if it's more of the full-on CIO, or the CC, but it's definitely there.


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## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

I think CIO is prevalent here for lots of reasons, so to the extent that those reasons apply to other cultures I can see this approach being used. A big one is that we don't have a fluid community of women, in all different stages of childbearing and rearing, around our whole lives. So, we look to "experts," who get paid to have answers that involve specific actions taken to correct the apparent "problem." CIO is something that they can tell you how to do (I think CC and CIO are the same, although some people do just let their kids cry unattended).

Also, Americans are so focused on getting their kids to 21 in 5 minutes, then wonder why they grow up too fast and are detached and inconsiderate.

Furthermore, I think Americans get into this idea that we are "entitled" to the luxuries of freedom from children, in a very selfish way, and then children show up and don't fit this program so the question becomes how to force them to fit as fast as possible so we can get back to pursuing our own interests.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I agree with everything the PP posted. I also think that cosleeping (or not) has a big impact. I think it's very very hard to support normal nighttime infant needs if you sleep separately. And when shared sleep is so taboo in the US (and other countries) then I feel like CIO is a natural result of that.


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## TerraNoelle (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dziwozony* 
but no eye contact or prolonged cuddling! the 5 min is lengthened to 10 & so on until the baby "gets it" (i.e. gives up). they seem to think it's better them all out CIO because of the checking in, but it's pretty well the same!


Ughhhh....








No eye contact or cuddling.....what are these people thinking....as if a baby understands....this CIO concept really angers me...ughhhh....


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## cuddleluvinma (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *passionatepreggers* 
Wow. No eye contact.
This wouldn't fly if the helpless one was an adult. What BS. I'm sorry, but yuck.

I agree


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## cuddleluvinma (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
In England, I know it happens because a friend (British) said that they recently had a TV ad campiegn against it (therefore, people must be doing it, but the cultural shift against it is happening there).

I'm so interested in this. I wish that I could see the ad..also wish I'd see ads like that here in the US.


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## mamefati28 (Jun 25, 2007)

From my travels and experience, it seems that CIO and CC are mostly prevelent in first world nations. A child having his own room and bed was absolutely ridiculous to my husband...he is from West Africa. For him it was borderline neglect. He thinks our son should co sleep until he chooses to move to his own bed, in our room, or wherever. I have never seen a baby left to cry in Africa.


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## KathinJapan (Mar 25, 2003)

I live in Japan where people co-sleep, I have not heard of CC or CIO, except for mothers who are not Japanese.
Years ago when someone asked me when do babies move into their own rooms I answered 6 months (dunno where I came up with that figure...) and was met with a horrified and shocked response. co-sleeping until elm. school is the norm here.
Kathryn


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

I'm also in Japan. I love that they co-sleep here for extended periods of time. I have a friend with teenagers that still sleep in the same room as their parents and I think this is actually pretty common. I haven't heard of CIO when sleeping however I have seen cases of letting children/babies cry in strollers or grocery carts and the parents not making attempts to pick them up. It breaks my heart to see this. Most parents sling though so these cases are pretty rare.


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## TerraNoelle (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamefati28* 
From my travels and experience, it seems that CIO and CC are mostly prevelent in first world nations. A child having his own room and bed was absolutely ridiculous to my husband...he is from West Africa. For him it was borderline neglect. He thinks our son should co sleep until he chooses to move to his own bed, in our room, or wherever. I have never seen a baby left to cry in Africa.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *KathinJapan* 
I live in Japan where people co-sleep, I have not heard of CC or CIO, except for mothers who are not Japanese.
Years ago when someone asked me when do babies move into their own rooms I answered 6 months (dunno where I came up with that figure...) and was met with a horrified and shocked response. co-sleeping until elm. school is the norm here.
Kathryn


Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
I'm also in Japan. I love that they co-sleep here for extended periods of time. I have a friend with teenagers that still sleep in the same room as their parents and I think this is actually pretty common. I haven't heard of CIO when sleeping however I have seen cases of letting children/babies cry in strollers or grocery carts and the parents not making attempts to pick them up. It breaks my heart to see this. Most parents sling though so these cases are pretty rare.


I think these are awesome examples and I hope that the Western World will begin learning from some of this!

I love that it's almost unheard of where you ladies are that a child is put in their own room by themselves so young!!

It makes me sad when people frown or act like we are doing a dis service to our son because we co-sleep. Then I feel even more sad when I think of their children who were in their rooms from the time they were newborn, with no care giver close by







Who in there right mind would want to be stuck away and not be heard or loved when they called for it....


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## TerraNoelle (Oct 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cuddleluvinma* 
I'm so interested in this. I wish that I could see the ad..also wish I'd see ads like that here in the US.


Me too!!! We need a that here! Sadly!


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

ugh no.....all of my polish relatiaves told me to CIO...granted they are a little americanized but they are still off the boat. my grandma also tried to give my 17 month old pop last night







:


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## WildCanaryCait (Aug 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
The author is Meredith Small. I agree, it's a great book!

yes yes, that's the one! thank you ~it's one of those books i think should be on the required reading list for anyone thinking they might have a child or have one in their lives in some way. I even sent this one to a doctor, anonymously...lol.


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## allfrog68 (Apr 14, 2007)

This is an excellent book. I would recommend it for any new parent. Especially those who might want to go the CIO way. I think it's always important to look at other cultures and this book is a great example of positive practices in other cultures. I think the author isn't (or wasn't) a mother at the time of writing the book and wrote it from an anthropological perspective.

http://www.amazon.com/Our-Babies-Our.../dp/0385483627


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## babygrace (Aug 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
I'm also in Japan. I love that they co-sleep here for extended periods of time. I have a friend with teenagers that still sleep in the same room as their parents and I think this is actually pretty common. I haven't heard of CIO when sleeping however I have seen cases of letting children/babies cry in strollers or grocery carts and the parents not making attempts to pick them up. It breaks my heart to see this. Most parents sling though so these cases are pretty rare.

i wonder if the extended co-sleeping is a result of space issues more than anything else. i am a 200% for co-sleeping with babies and children, but feel teens need to sleep by themselves.

the crying in grocery carts comment set me thinking about a paradox observed in (mainly) western countries- CIO is routinely followed as a matter of course, but outside of the house people strictly believe in the adage "children should be seen and not heard"!


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Things are definitely changing in the UK - I've seen the add and it really gets you thinking, when I had my dd there 5 years ago they really encouraged me to co-sleep - it was great, completely different in france in the neo natal unit I was not allowed to co-sleep, carry etc - I did it anyway, but I was told so many times that he would pick up bad habits, it was illegal, I would suffocate my baby blah blah blah - we still co-sleep + breastfeed!!!


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## KathinJapan (Mar 25, 2003)

Sort of related... I saw a poster the other day about preventing SIDS.
It was ABC. (this is Japan where the alphabet is not usually used...)
A for sleep aomuki (on you back/face up)
B for bonyu (Breastmilk, complete with picture of baby latching on!!)
C for clean environment, no smoking around baby.

sorry for the OT posting, but I was reminded of this thread.
Kathryn


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## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

CC is used in Denmark as well. But not the extreme CIO-version. And even CC is considered controversial. It's not something people are proud to admit, that they do.
I used to get into fights over this on Danish mainstream boards all the time. I really hate the "as long as mom is happy, baby is happy" BS, that the CC advocates spout







:. At least they are grasping at straws to justify it. That must mean that they know it's wrong...


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## Meg_s (Apr 13, 2006)

My midwife told me that it was promoted vigorously by the German gov't early last century (along with other detachment strategies) in order to create a pliable nation of people who were willing to follow without question, and in desperate need of a sense of belonging. CIO seems to be very common here, everyone spouts the myths of it being good for the lungs, good so the child learns that it can't manipulate you etc etc. My neighbours are 65 and 70 and are absolutely appalled at the lack of "discipline" I have with my son, he's a normal toddler but they think kids should be seen and not heard, not ask questions or disobey or have any strong feelings of any sort. "I made him the way he is" which in my eyes is perfect, in her eyes is a spoiled brat.


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## eccomi (Apr 11, 2006)

I wish CIO weren't quite so prevalent in Italy because then it might be easier to convince my dh that it is natural and (IMO) better to have our baby boy sleep with us, even as he grows. You would think that a culture that is so family-based where it's common for children to live with their parents until they're married (even if that means plenty of 50 year olds at home with mom!) would be more sensitive to the needs of babies. But I haven't heard of any Italians so far that are co-sleeping. Sad, yes.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

CIO is rather common in Norway too, unfortunately. We have a couple of "sleep experts" advocating it, and they get far too much press.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babygrace* 
i wonder if the extended co-sleeping is a result of space issues more than anything else. i am a 200% for co-sleeping with babies and children, but feel teens need to sleep by themselves.


Teens usually want to sleep by themselves. But my sister co-slept with my mother for a long period when she was 12 - 13 years old. She was having a hard time at school and needed extra comfort.


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## ecstaticmama24 (Sep 20, 2006)

It's definitley a Western thing... There are many cultures in the world who view our (by our I mean western society generally) child rearing practices as the worst form of child abuse. The Samoan view leaving a child/baby in a room all alone to sleep as child abuse. It's amazing how diverse cultures are.


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## ecstaticmama24 (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allfrog68* 
This is an excellent book. I would recommend it for any new parent. Especially those who might want to go the CIO way. I think it's always important to look at other cultures and this book is a great example of positive practices in other cultures. I think the author isn't (or wasn't) a mother at the time of writing the book and wrote it from an anthropological perspective.

http://www.amazon.com/Our-Babies-Our.../dp/0385483627


Thank you! I just ordered it! I have another book as well called "A World of Babies" and it's very similar I believe. It's written by an anthropologist. I'm constantly looking for books on child rearing practices in a variety of cultures, thanks.


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