# Daughter's friend (long)



## JaneyD (Aug 2, 2004)

Whew, what a year! My daugher started middle school this year as a 7th grader, and has become friends with a girl in her class. This girl has a very difficult life...abuse, no father on scene, living in a motel at the moment...its a very different life than my daughter has. Earlier this year, she was caught bringing pot to school. She was supended for that, although the police were not invovled.

It sounds like she is a "bad" kid, but she's actually very sweet. She has spent a lot of time over at our house, and I think its nice for her to have a stable environment to hang out in. I run a pretty tight ship, and I'm really sure that my daughter has not experimented with drugs or alcohol yet.

The latest: I was reading my daughter's email (with her permission) and found that this girl is going to Planned parenthood to get birth control. Now I'm not really surprised about this. She needs an extreme amount of validation, and constantly looks to boys for approval. I understand why, given her background, but I am sorry this is happening at such a young age.

She has asked my daughter to go with her to PP for support. Her grandfather will be there (he is her taxi service) and according to my daughter, her mother knows and has given permission). I don't think my daughter needs to get this involved. I am happy she is being supportive, but I am uncomfortable with this.

Would you let her go? Why, or why not? Thanks!


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

I would let her go, probably, but only if she wanted to and only if I went too. If she were uncomfortable, I'd tell her she didn't have to go.

If she went, I'd offer myself as a taxi service (nonjudgemental of the dd's friend, but there for the teachable moment with my daughter.)


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

Hmmm...I don't think I'd let her go. My daughter is in the 6th grade, and I have son who's an 8th grader. I'm trying to just check in with my gut feelings, and my first instinct is if this were my dd, I'd say no. Now I'm trying to figure out exactly why I'd say no. I think it's this: First, I just think she's too young. If she were a few years older, even 14 maybe, I'd be more inclined to say yes. Second, I'd be uncomfortable with my dd getting information on birth control at such a young age without me there. Third, I'd be concerned that letting my dd go would contribute to normalizing the idea of 12 year olds on birth control - concerned that she'd start to think it was an O.K. idea for her too. I'm not talking exactly about peer pressure, or saying that your dd's friend would pressure her into getting bc too. But that the fact that her friend is getting it, and being so involved in the process of getting the bc might plant a seed in her own mind that being on bc at 12 is fine, and why shouldn't she start thinking about it too, etc. It's just how we humans work. We love our friends, and accept what they do, and what they do influences what we do, and what we do influences what they do - KWIM?

I really feel for your dd's friend, and I hope you're able to work this out with your dd in a way that feels right for both of you.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I'd definitely let her go and support her friend. I might offer to drive -- also non-judgmentally -- but would let my daughter go either way.

My dd is five and she's already done volunteer work for PP with me. We'd be doing a lot more if the one in our area performed abortions, too.


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## sunkissedmumma67 (Jul 9, 2007)

I would not allow my daughter to go! Your daughter is at a very impressionable stage in her life. I think thats just plain sick, a girl getting birth control in middle school. I wouldn't even allow my daughter (who is 14) to associate with a girl like that! Because no matter how good you have raised your daughter, no matter how good of morals you have instilled in her, many, if not most kids at this age will follow their friends instead of their parents. I have a 19 year old son, in college and hes always telling me how the majority of middle and high school girls are just so immoral. He knows I'm very strict about certain things with my daughters and he still says mom be very careful about who their friends are!


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

One way to think of it might be that while you don't pass judgement on your dd's friend (and it sounds like she's making a responsible choice for herself), you would prefer that she not be part of the trip to pp because it doesn't fit with what you are comfortable having her do/experience. Who knows, dd may be a bit scared by all of this, needing someone to set a compassionate limit, and welcome the "out". It's always possible to support her friend in other ways, ie have her back to the house for dinner or just some girl time, maybe just make yourself available if she ever needs to talk, etc. Is there anyone else in this girl's life who could go to pp with her?

If your dd really insists that this is important to her, than I second offering to drive. I know I would. I would just worry that one kids emotional stuff might be overwhelming for another kid (yours), and it can be so easy at that age to be caught up in the drama. It sounds like you're the mom who would be ther for your daughter if she needed, and that's awesome. So great that she could even bring this to you-kudos.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

I would let her go. It sounds like this girl needs a good, positive influence and also support. I'd probably even offer to take her myself.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

I would let her go, but really use this as a learning experience. This is something that can be either very helpful to her perceptions or very hurtful, and it really boils down to your involvement. On the one hand, you could let her go and she ends up thinking BC (and therefore sex) at 12 is, or should be, normal, or on the other hand you could still let her go, but explain that sex at 12 is (insert personal opinion of sex at 12 here) but that because her friend chose this path, it is wise for her to be on birth control, to avoid pregnancy. It would also be a good opportunity to open some dialogue and learn her opinions of sexuality and her friend's actions.
Or of course you could choose not to let her go, that is your right as well. I am just giving my opinion.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

Holy cow! I was still playing with dolls sometimes when I was in 7th grade. There is no way I would want my dd at age 12 to be involved with the girl you describe. And there is no way I'd be supportive of this girl's quest for birth control either, because most likely in the case of her "sex life", it is statuatory rape or just plain rape. I just don't buy the whole thing-- mentally healthy, "sweet" seventh graders are not out looking for sex. I'd be very suspicious that her grandfather is molesting/raping her and maybe he wants her on birth control for that reason.

We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex and doing drugs, you might want to squash this friendship before things go very wrong for your dd.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I'd definitely let her go and support her friend. I might offer to drive -- also non-judgmentally -- but would let my daughter go either way.

My dd is five and she's already done volunteer work for PP with me. We'd be doing a lot more if the one in our area performed abortions, too.

i am reading this wrong, right? you would let your 5yo volunteer at an abortion clinic?? NOT an abortion debate, but don't you think it is kind of inaproppriate and awkward for everyone involved for a small child to be working at an abortion clinic? and i fail to see how it could be beneficial to a young child to have to know about this kind of thing at such an early age. it is a very complex and adult topic IMO.


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## barbara73069 (Apr 21, 2007)

I like the idea of letting her go if she wants to and you taking them both. It's a great opportunity to talk to them about sharing their bodies, emotional maturity, committment, safe sex etc. I think it would be a great teaching moment for both girls. JMO, Barb


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homemademomma* 
i am reading this wrong, right? you would let your 5yo volunteer at an abortion clinic?? NOT an abortion debate, but don't you think it is kind of inaproppriate and awkward for everyone involved for a small child to be working at an abortion clinic? and i fail to see how it could be beneficial to a young child to have to know about this kind of thing at such an early age. it is a very complex and adult topic IMO.

Like I said, PP doesn't perform abortions here. The last thing we did was go door to door at local businesses, passing around brochures about the women's health services that the local clinic offers. If PP were performing abortions, I would definitely involve my daughter (and son) in distributing information about that, participating in visibility events, and any kind of volunteering we could do in the clinic without making people uncomfortable. My daughter has known about abortion since she was two . . . I want her to always grow up knowing that it's an option available to us and one that must be protected. It's not a complex topic for our family at all.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I would let her go. We'd talk about what was happening, her thoughts and mine, etc. Maybe I would tag along, maybe not.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I just asked my kids (14 & 16). My 14 yo said that she'd go to support her friend in being responsible, even though she thinks 12yo kids shouldn't be having sex. My 16yo looked at me and said "wait - 12? TWELVE? Are you nuts?"


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I'd definitely let her go and support her friend. I might offer to drive -- also non-judgmentally -- but would let my daughter go either way.

Exactly.

I went with many friends to planned parenthood to get bc.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I think I would let my daughter go. I wouldn't want to hinder the development of the kinds of character your daughter obviously has. She is compassionate, and a good friend.

How could a mother ask for anything more?







:

That said, my kid is 2, to easy for me to say huh?

Tell me 2 doesn't last forever BTW please.







:


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
Holy cow! I was still playing with dolls sometimes when I was in 7th grade. There is no way I would want my dd at age 12 to be involved with the girl you describe. And there is no way I'd be supportive of this girl's quest for birth control either, because *most likely in the case of her "sex life", it is statuatory rape or just plain rape*. I just don't buy the whole thing-- *mentally healthy, "sweet" seventh graders are not out looking for sex.* *I'd be very suspicious that her grandfather is molesting/raping her and maybe he wants her on birth control for that reason.*
We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex adrugs, you might want to nd doing *squash this friendship* before things go very wrong for your dd.

Is this post a joke?


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
most likely in the case of her "sex life", it is statuatory rape or just plain rape. I just don't buy the whole thing-- mentally healthy, "sweet" seventh graders are not out looking for sex. I'd be very suspicious that her grandfather is molesting/raping her and maybe he wants her on birth control for that reason.


Good points and they deserve careful consideration. I wonder what the OP thinks of this?


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex and doing drugs, you might want to squash this friendship before things go very wrong for your dd.

I don't find that to be true at all. Please give people more credit than that. I have friends that did things I would never do, and friends who would never do the things I have done. I don't think that "squashing" a friendship is respectful of either girl as a human being. It is important to talk to your kids. Ask them about their values. You may find that they don't always reflect those of their peers. They are, after all, individuals, capable of thinking for themselves. Having a friend who makes poor decisions does not mean the OP's daughter is doomed to do the same any more than hanging out with abstainent straight-edge kids will guarantee her DD never has sex or does drugs.


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## boobybunny (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunkissedmumma67* 
I would not allow my daughter to go! Your daughter is at a very impressionable stage in her life. I think thats just plain sick, a girl getting birth control in middle school. I wouldn't even allow my daughter (who is 14) to associate with a girl like that! Because no matter how good you have raised your daughter, no matter how good of morals you have instilled in her, many, if not most kids at this age will follow their friends instead of their parents. I have a 19 year old son, in college and hes always telling me how the majority of middle and high school girls are just so immoral. He knows I'm very strict about certain things with my daughters and he still says mom be very careful about who their friends are!


Wow.. are you always so judgemental. A girl getting birth control AT ANY AGE is the mature and responsible thing to do.

Sex is not immoral. Being prepared to prevent pregnancy is not immoral. Judging this young woman, who has by account seen more about the dark side of life, for taking the steps to protect herself is immoral.

This young woman, with the support of her friend, going to get birth control might just stop her from having sex. And her friend, the OP's daughter is not going to somehow "immoral" because she was being a good friend.


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## terrordactyl (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
Holy cow! I was still playing with dolls sometimes when I was in 7th grade. There is no way I would want my dd at age 12 to be involved with the girl you describe. And there is no way I'd be supportive of this girl's quest for birth control either, because most likely in the case of her "sex life", it is statuatory rape or just plain rape. I just don't buy the whole thing-- mentally healthy, "sweet" seventh graders are not out looking for sex. I'd be very suspicious that her grandfather is molesting/raping her and maybe he wants her on birth control for that reason.

We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex and doing drugs, you might want to squash this friendship before things go very wrong for your dd.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Is this post a joke?

















:


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## SJLove (Mar 12, 2006)

I would not let my 12 yo go to PP. I do not want to encourage my kids to have sex at an early age, and I would fear that allowing her to go would do that.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

I don't appreciate having my post called "a joke", Transformed. Is your post a joke? Is it okay to have an opinion here, or only if you say so, Transformed?

Lay off of me. The poster asked for advice, and I gave it. You have no right calling my posts a joke because I don't have the same opinion as you.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

And you too, Shaina. Lay off of me. I have the right to express my opinion, just like you.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex and doing drugs, you might want to squash this friendship before things go very wrong for your dd.

And maybe the other kids will become like the OP's dd. It's not always the "bad" influence that wins.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

If the influence goes both ways, then maybe the OP's dd could convince her friend to give up sex and drugs, instead of supporting her in illegal activities.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
I don't appreciate having my post called "a joke", Transformed. Is your post a joke? Is it okay to have an opinion here, or only if you say so, Transformed?

Lay off of me. The poster asked for advice, and I gave it. You have no right calling my posts a joke because I don't have the same opinion as you.

I apologize.


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## sunkissedmumma67 (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm not judging the girl. I'm judging the behavior, (using drugs at such a young age, having sex at such a young age.) It's very sad. Usually girls become sexually active at young ages because they are not getting the love and attention they need at home, (sounds like thats probally the case with this girl) or because they have been sexually molested. This girl does need help, but not from another child. Adults need to step in, possible get authorities involved if it's that bad. I've always told my kids to help others, but helping this girl would be an adult stepping up and helping change her life for the better, not encouraging or just going along with her bad decisions,(such as getting on birth control and having sex at 12). If you truely care about this girl you tell her that having sex at her age is not whats best for her. You don't just support it! You be supportative in other ways!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Wow! In my opinion there is some really out there judgement going on in this thread.







:

I'd prefer that my 14 year old Dd not be involved in a sexual relationship right now for a variety of reasons, and we've discussed them and will continue to do so. That doesn't mean that every single sexually active 7th grader or teen is being molested, raped, or is mentally unstable. Also, there are many people who do not appreciate sexuality being equated with automatic immorality.


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## amma-la (Jul 1, 2007)

sex isn't wrong, and being prepared is fantastic - but being prepared to say no and having the confidence to not feel any less about herself if a guy insults her for "not putting out" is the real kind of preparation she needs. and luckily your daughter may be in a position to help her with this.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

putting on flame proof unders









I don't discount who my dd hangs with. I can not imagine how she could not be influenced by a friend getting bc at the age of 12 and being there to hold her hand at pp. Really, think about it- 12 years old. It has nothing to do with pp either. For instance, if the friend was going there for bc to help with wicked periods, I wouldn't mind. Intent matters to me. My dd knows about pp. In fact, dd is pro-choice, causing her much grief at her christian school. She takes the heat rather well though.

Drugs and sex at that young of age are of huge concern to me. Those are not things I want my dd involved in nor be around other kids who are into those things. In saying that I acknowledge some of my family's values. Don't know why that would be something to be slammed for. My job to steer my child as best I can and then, when they reach maturity, have the strength to let them go to find their own way.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
putting on flame proof unders







.


Can you tell me where to buy these please?

Honestly, I have been thinking so much about this, and while I wish I could be very, very non-judgemental about the scenario, in truth, I wouldn't wish for my dd to be involved in this. Like I said in a pp, I would wish to find other ares in which I or my dd could be supportive, but this feels too young to be involved with someone else's sexual decision-making. I agree with a pp who said the answer for this child is not the support of another child.


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## KYCat (May 19, 2004)

Sex at 12. If this isn't something that you can say that you don't agree with without being judgemental then what on earth can you??? What is the point of role models, or friends for that matter if they aren't going to tell you when you have a dumb idea? You can certainly stand your ground and be surrounded by PEERS of varying characters, but I've yet to see middle school girl FRIENDS who did not come to some middle common ground. Mine are still little and right now I want to lock them in their bedrooms and hide the key! The poster is the mom, not the friend. Surely, the responsibility is different. As I have told my 5 year old son, good friends bring out the best in each other, they don't just go along with each other's bad ideas (in his case like throwing sand on a girl in class.) I'm not against sex but sex at 12- oh my!
I just edited for a punctuation goof and realized that at 12 this probably isn't a pre-sex bc visit. What a messy situation! I would try and talk with the girl and try and talk her out of it but say pretty clearly that she should certainly be sure to keep using condoms!!! And get the cervical cancer vax.
Please take all of this with a grain of salt. I'm clearly out of my league. Off to breathe into a paper bag!


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

JaneyD - I just reread your post (as I'm sure is true of most, if not all of us who've read your dilemma, I've been thinking about it). In your original post, you said that you have a feeling that your dd does not need to get this involved with the girl's activities. I think you should trust that feeling. There are mamas who've posted on this thread who have said they would feel comfortable with their own dd's going to PP with the friend - If they asked for opinions, I would advise them to trust their feelings, and let their daughter go (after checking to make sure that the daughter didn't really want me to say no - that happens too).

I've never gone wrong by trusting my mom's intuition, which in my case often comes in the form of uncomfortable feelings. My head says, "yeah, but the girl is so sweet, and I don't want her to feel we're judgmental toward her, etc." But in my gut, I feel uncomfortable. I only go wrong when I ingnore that gut feeling. As many of the responders have said, you can support your daughter, support this girl, and do all of it non-judgmentally, while still trusting yourself and your parenting instincts. Like I said, if you genuinely felt it was a fine thing to do to let your dd go along to PP, I would likewise say to trust your feelings. In this case, you don't feel that way. Trust yourself.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
mentally healthy, "sweet" seventh graders are not out looking for sex. I'd be very suspicious that her grandfather is molesting/raping her and maybe he wants her on birth control for that reason.

It might not be the best decision to be sexually active at 12, but I think it is inappropriate to say that this girl isn't mentally healthy or sweet. I also think it is a long stretch to think someone is molesting her. A sexually knowledgable second grader - maybe. But the girl in question is in 7th grade. Not what many moms may plan for their dds, but not so young as to assume a molestation issue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl*
We become like the people we are friends with. If you have a problem with your 12 year old having sex and doing drugs, you might want to squash this friendship before things go very wrong for your dd.

I strongly disagree with this statement! I was the designated driver in high school, went to more parties than I can count, and in four years had a total of two beers. Once cussed a friend up one side and down the other for doing drugs (I wish it had been just pot) in the back of my van. Went along to be moral support for a friend who had an abortion and needed to go back for a check up. Dated a number of guys who did drugs - some "heavy" drugs - and I've never so much as smoked a cigarette. Helped friends who were in abusive situations. And never made any of those choices in my own life.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cinnamongrrl* 
If the influence goes both ways, then maybe the OP's dd could convince her friend to give up sex and drugs, instead of supporting her in illegal activities.

I believe the situation the OP is asking advice about is her dd's friend's trip to PP. I don't think it is illegal for a girl to get birth control. I am actually really impressed that she wants to be responsible - many kids are too embarrassed to get birth control and end up in a hard situation because of it.

OP, I'd have a discussion with my dd, but would let her go if she wanted to.


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## smillerhouse (Aug 5, 2006)

As a mom of a nearly 15 year old, I would say NO NO NO. She has had friends like this, I love her compassion,her openess (a lot like her mom







but she also needs tons of support to take care of HERSELF.She is a teen, a did herself and needs my support to guide and nurture and allow her not to grow up too fast. This is boundaries. I do not feel this is appropriate at this young of age. I am currently busy allowing my dd to be a fun teen, do fun active stuff. Caretaking role is fine IN BALANCE.She needs to tons of support and guidance around reciprocity. Sallie


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## deethai (Jan 15, 2008)

I would let her go. If you hadn't known about it from the e-mail she might have gone anyway. Now you even have a chance to ask her what they said there and tell her your opinion about it.
I would not let her take the pill because of side effects but if they hand out condoms there for example why not.

When I was that age I went to a place like that for fun cause I heard they give our free condoms and I had never seen one, I went with a male friend, it was so funny, we were just friends and so young and they probably thought we needed the condoms ourselves so they gave us plenty for free, was a good idea to go together, so funny. We never planned to use them.
We just found it funny and played with them, or putting them somewhere outside to shock people passing by and hiding and laughing about their reactions. Keeping some at home in a hidden place, just because they were something special to have.

By going there we learned that there are places like that, that help young people who need help with sexuality issues, who give free advice and it was nice to know something like that existed and we learned what condoms look like and that it is important to worry about getting pregnant too early.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
If PP were performing abortions, I would definitely involve my daughter (and son) in distributing information about that, participating in visibility events, and any kind of volunteering we could do in the clinic without making people uncomfortable. My daughter has known about abortion since she was two . . . I want her to always grow up knowing that it's an option available to us and one that must be protected. It's not a complex topic for our family at all.

wow. all i can say is that i strongly disagree. i am very prochoice, but jeez. i dont want my kids thinking about that stuff.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 

I strongly disagree with this statement! I was the designated driver in high school, went to more parties than I can count, and in four years had a total of two beers. Once cussed a friend up one side and down the other for doing drugs (I wish it had been just pot) in the back of my van. Went along to be moral support for a friend who had an abortion and needed to go back for a check up. Dated a number of guys who did drugs - some "heavy" drugs - and I've never so much as smoked a cigarette. Helped friends who were in abusive situations. And never made any of those choices in my own life.

.

ITA. I had a friend that had sex at 13 or so. I had friends who were into drugs.

I most definitely believe you can be friends with someone without doing drugs and having sex if they are.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I had a friend who started having sex at 12 or 13 or so. She also seemed to be doing it because of poor self esteem and looking to boys to give her life meaning. It certainly did not inspire me to follow in her footsteps. I felt pretty bad for her, actually.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KYCat* 
And get the cervical cancer vax.

I'm sorry, are you talking about the HPV vaccine? It is NOT a cervical cancer vaccine.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunkissedmumma67* 
I would not allow my daughter to go! Your daughter is at a very impressionable stage in her life. I think thats just plain sick, a girl getting birth control in middle school. I wouldn't even allow my daughter (who is 14) to associate with a girl like that! Because no matter how good you have raised your daughter, no matter how good of morals you have instilled in her, many, if not most kids at this age will follow their friends instead of their parents.

But the previous poster says she trusts her daughter, plus her daughter is being very honest with her. It is possible that her daughter will follow this other girl and do the same thing and maybe in an unconscious way is trying to alert her mother to something going on with "herself" by telling her what her "friend" is currently in to regarding drugs and now sex. Maybe she's afraid to tell her mother herself and is using her friend to get the point across. You never know, BUT the original poster says she trusts her daughter and if she trusts her I see no reason to not let her support her friend.

However, peer pressure does get tough beginning in 6/7th grade and I'd watch my child closely if they had a friend like this.







I'd much rather encourage my child to be around kids that study all the time, get involved in sports or school activities than one that is involved in drugs, living in a hotel and going on birth control. But as a parent you just do the best you can. I personally would not allow my child around a kid like this. You can be the best parent in the world, talking to your child, best friends, not best friends, doesn't matter and they will make their own choices and sometimes they will be the wrong choices and they will hide them from the parents if they want to. You just never know when they will do things.







That's the hardest part about being a parent IMO.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 
I'm sorry, are you talking about the HPV vaccine? It is NOT a cervical cancer vaccine.

Sure it is!

http://www.cdc.gov/std/Hpv/STDFact-HPV-vaccine.htm

It helps to prevent certain types of cerv cancer.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
And maybe the other kids will become like the OP's dd. It's not always the "bad" influence that wins.

But that's highly unlikely. Anyone who has been a teen that has gone through hard times themselves or known people who did go through them knows what it's like. It's either hang with the people you fit in the best with or be alone. Some kids feel they have to hang with the bad kids because none of the good kids have anything to do with them. The bad kids generally are not going to change and that's been proven over the years. So it's definitely more likely that the bad kid will sway the original poster's child in to doing the same things she is doing at some point down the road.

I'd encourage a child this young to find different avenues to get new friends. Get her involved in a church group, a school group through sports or other activities. Help your child find out that there ARE other kids out there and other things she could be doing with her time other than wasting it on a friend that has a hard life. No one is responsible for that other girl's life except herself and her own family. It's not up to the original poster's child to try and help this other child get through her life or help her change. They are BOTH just young children who still need parental guidance at this point.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
My dd is five and she's already done volunteer work for PP with me. We'd be doing a lot more if the one in our area performed abortions, too.

But this is something *you* are doing with your child as their parent. You might feel differently when your DD is 15 and wants to hang with the girl in school with the worst reputation. Think about it. When girls this age are together and one of them lives a life full of negativity or drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever, then it will be a major topic of discussion and what they are doing while alone together. How is that a good influence for anyone? Why is a 12 yr old girl supposed to be pushed in to taking on the enormity of a relationship such as this? Her parents should be pushing her to be a good kid and make good choices in life and having a friend like this is not such a good choice right now. It's not her place to feel sorry for this other kid and hang with her in "hopes" of changing her, changing her to what? The other 12 yr old doesn't know enough about life YET to know what to be like?


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## dawn1221 (Sep 27, 2006)

Some of you are just off the charts!

A 5 year old at an abortion clinic? Seriously?

A preteen having sex automatically = being molested/mentally ill?

Anyway...

OP:

It is your choice as a parent to decide if you are okay with this or not. If you feel like it is a battle worth fighting, then do. Clearly some of the posters on this thread should not be giving you advice. I say decide for your self.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Openskyheart* 
Third, I'd be concerned that letting my dd go would contribute to normalizing the idea of 12 year olds on birth control - concerned that she'd start to think it was an O.K. idea for her too. I'm not talking exactly about peer pressure, or saying that your dd's friend would pressure her into getting bc too.

This is the thing that gets me. No amount of talk, imo, can be as influential as actually seeing a peer go to get parent-sanctioned birth control.

I have the same issue with my son hanging around in homes where the parents and older teen smoke. He isn't smoking, but he's witnessing it as an everyday ordindary adult behavior, rather than something odd and gross.

The problem with this reason is the teen finds it condescending to be told he doesn't totally have control over his own mind. I can't give him this reason, and yet, it is my reason.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I would provide my sexually active teens with birth control or access to birth control. I have some concerns about hormones in BC pills, but that doesn't mean I would prohibit them... it just means we would discuss and research the options. I would also make sure there were condoms available.









Also, for a family that is pro-choice and does volunteer work at a clinic I fail to see a problem in taking a child along as you do that work. So long as your supervisor at the clinic is fine with the child being present...so what? I'd take my kid along to do volunteer work at a soup kitchen or animal shelter too.


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## Openskyheart (Nov 25, 2002)

I

Quote:

would provide my sexually active teens with birth control or access to birth control. I have some concerns about hormones in BC pills, but that doesn't mean I would prohibit them... it just means we would discuss and research the options. I would also make sure there were condoms available.
As would I, Unschoolnma, in a heartbeat.







But that's not the issue the OP was dealing with. Her dd (to the best of her knowledge) is not yet sexually active, but is being asked to go along with a friend to a BC clinic. This is also not a teen we're talking about, but a 12 year old child. That is a different issue altogether to me. If I was in the particular situation, and my 12 year old dd wanted to go to a BC clinic with a friend under these exact circumstances, I would be uncomfortable with that, and would most likely say no. I would have to trust my feelings on this one. The OP said that she felt she should say no, but then was questioning her decision. IMO, she should trust herself, and her mama's instincts. If they were telling her it was fine to let her dd go to the clinic with her friend, then that would also be a different story - but she's not. Anyway, it's a tough situation. I think the dd, and the OP can be true to the OP's feelings, while still being compassionate and helpful to this girl.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I am putting my personal feelings aside about pp and birthcontrol...

I worry about the friend wanting your dd to take bc, too. I worry about your dd feeling pressured to have sex since her friend is. I do think your dd maybe a good example for the friend if your dd is not sexually active. Of course, it is your dd's decision, I just hope she doesn't feel pressured to be like her friend.

Another thought... I had some friends that were pretty smart in how to fool their parents. They would talk to their moms about their friend having sex. Saying their friend wanted to go to PP. Mom would let them go with friend. It was really THEM that was having sex, not the friend, and were looking for a way to be able to get bc pills, not the friend. This way they can say they were holding the pills for their friend so they didn't get into trouble if they were found by mom. And mom knows they were at pp, so they didn't get into trouble if it was later discovered. I just wanted to put that out there. Are you sure it isn't your dd who is wanting bc, using the friend and friends gf as a front?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

The op said that the other girl asked her dd to go along......how does your dd feel about it? Is she comfortable going? Does she feel prepared to be a support person for her friend in this area?

I had a friend that looked to me for support with her sexuality when we were teens. I was *so uncomfortable*, and really not able to help her. It would have been much better for both of us if she had had a trusted adult to help her, rather than another young teen--especially another teen who was personally unready for the issue.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
Sure it is!

http://www.cdc.gov/std/Hpv/STDFact-HPV-vaccine.htm

It helps to prevent certain types of cerv cancer.









Yes, but that doesn't make it a cervical cancer vaccine. You are vaccinating against HPV, not against cervical cancer.


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## JaneyD (Aug 2, 2004)

OP here. You all have certainly given a lot of perspectives here, and I want you to know that I very much appreciate the time you took to share your views.

And just as an aside, I'm not sure where the 12 year old thing came from...my dd is 13, and her friend is 14. However, as far as I'm concerned, that really doesn't matter, as I consider all of it too young.

I appreciate the concern for my daughter that I feel here. Many of you have echoed my own thoughts, espcially the poster who wrote about how their own dd was a caretaker, and needed support of her own. This describes my daughter to a tee. And yes, I'm absoutely sure that it is her friend, not her, who wants the bc.

I am a little curious how you would go about limiting this frienship. I do not let them go out together, like to the mall, or things like that (actually, I don't let her go to the mall with anyone, not just this girl...I see no point in it) I suppose i could forbid phone contact, and not let this girl come over to our house, but they would see each other at school anyway every day. I'm not sure how I could do that, in a practical way.

And my daughter does have other great friends, who are at a more similar development level. She is great in school, and has played soccer for years. She is well balanced and happy.

I have decided not to let her go to PP. I am simply going to tell her that it is not her responsibility, and that we need to let her mother and the girl take care of this themselves. I also will stress how sex is not a good idea when you are so young...the consequences are hardly ever good. I will phrase it in a way that emphasizes my concern for her friend, and how I don't want her to be hurt anymore than she already has been in life.

In a way, I am angry with this girl. My daughter has never had to think about things like this before, and now she is really no longer innocent. However, that is neither here nor there, I guess, as it is done now. We have had some good talks on the subject, I just wish we could have waited a little longer.

Thanks for the insights.


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## Phantaja (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 
My dd knows about pp. In fact, dd is pro-choice, causing her much grief at her christian school. She takes the heat rather well though.


What the hell is going on in seventh grade??? Not that there's a problem with your daughter knowing anything about ending a pregnancy or even having a stance on it, but why is it even an issue in 7th grade? Why would her stance even be known to the other kids?

Birth control? Pot? I remember seventh grade. It was 13 years ago, but I remember. It wasn't like this.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

It's quite surprising what goes on with many 7th grade students. If you met my group of friends you would be shocked. We all smoked cigs, most tried pot, alcohol was far from a stranger, and MANY were having sex. Some with other young boys, but most with older boys/men. I knew a few girls on bcp in 8th grade, one had that implant thing in her arm I forget what its called (Norplant I think?) but it was later stopped being implanted. I am 29 now. I don't think its a new thing.


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## PoppyMama (Jul 1, 2004)

The general age in 7th grade is 12 so that is probably where people are getting that idea... I went to PP/Community Health Center to get bcp and condoms when I was 14 and I was neither abused nor approval seeking. I just wanted to have sex and give myself the best chance of not getting pregnant or a disease. I'm not saying that everyone is ready then but all these assumptions about people who chose to have sex early are a little ridiculous. I hope my daughter doesn't have sex that early (doesn't everyone want their kids to stay kids) but if she takes the initiative to get protected I will at least be happy about that.

To the posters talking about "bad" kids and reputations and such...that attitude irritates me to no end. Doing things that others don't agree with but which are not hurting others is not bad and reputations gained from that are not a concern of mine. I would honestly rather have my daughter having sex and being supportive and kind rather than being like some of the judgemental "christian" kids I knew. Funnily, I had the 3rd worst reputation (yes some of the kids ranked us) in my small highschool as a freshmen and this was before I had had sex with anyone. "Bad reputations" are cruel and ridiculous.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phantaja* 
What the hell is going on in seventh grade??? Not that there's a problem with your daughter knowing anything about ending a pregnancy or even having a stance on it, but why is it even an issue in 7th grade? Why would her stance even be known to the other kids?

Birth control? Pot? I remember seventh grade. It was 13 years ago, but I remember. It wasn't like this.

It's changed a lot in the last few years, unfortunately. My sister (who's 17) was in a few classes in 6th grade with a pregnant girl. I (21) had a friend in 8th grade get pregnant. And at least half the kids at my high school had tried pot before they got there.

I realise this differs from area to area. One kid who transferred to my school from Texas said there was only one kid at his old high school who smoked pot, and everyone thought he was scary.

So, you're child's friend is 14? Not a great age to be having sex, IMO, but much better than 12. Each year of adolescence is an eternity. (Which is why age difference makes so much difference in dating-- 22 yo dating a 28 yo is perfectly acceptable, but 12 yo dating an 18 yo? See where I'm going with this?)

I hope you can come to a decision that both you and your daughter feel comfortable with.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phantaja* 
What the hell is going on in seventh grade??? Not that there's a problem with your daughter knowing anything about ending a pregnancy or even having a stance on it, but why is it even an issue in 7th grade? Why would her stance even be known to the other kids?

Birth control? Pot? I remember seventh grade. It was 13 years ago, but I remember. It wasn't like this.

Mine was (though not with me, but it was all around me) and that was nineteen years ago.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

It wasn't the norm when I was in 7th grade 15 years ago, but it was not unheard of. I knew a couple people who had sex and smoked pot.

I agree with Poppymama's post.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PoppyMama* 
The general age in 7th grade is 12 so that is probably where people are getting that idea... I went to PP/Community Health Center to get bcp and condoms when I was 14 and I was neither abused nor approval seeking. I just wanted to have sex and give myself the best chance of not getting pregnant or a disease. I'm not saying that everyone is ready then but all these assumptions about people who chose to have sex early are a little ridiculous. I hope my daughter doesn't have sex that early (doesn't everyone want their kids to stay kids) but if she takes the initiative to get protected I will at least be happy about that.

 I agree 100%


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Phantaja* 
What the hell is going on in seventh grade??? Not that there's a problem with your daughter knowing anything about ending a pregnancy or even having a stance on it, but why is it even an issue in 7th grade? Why would her stance even be known to the other kids?

Birth control? Pot? I remember seventh grade. It was 13 years ago, but I remember. It wasn't like this.


My daughter knows about those things because she is a curious child. I made a promise to her that if she asked a question, I would do my best to answer it as accurately and truthfully as possible and only stick to only answering that particular question. That promise was made when she was quite young, four or so. If she wanted more info or had follow up questions, all she had to do was ask and I would keep answering. She was warned that some of the answers were either sad or gross or whatever. If she still wanted the answer, then she got it. The older she got, the more complex the questions. Not a big deal.

I can't remember for sure, but I think she first heard about pp because she asked about one that we drive by on almost a daily basis. At her age (14 years and eighth grade btw), I can't see how it would be an issue knowing about the more complicated consequences to sex.

Her stance is known because she and her friends challenge each other on their beliefs. They debate things back and forth. It is not part of any regular school lesson if that is what you're thinking. Kids talk, that's all.

I'm farther out from 7th grade than you and went to a christian one at that but still knew kids doing drugs, drinking and having sex. I wonder how you missed it- not being snarky, just amazed.

from the op

Quote:

I am a little curious how you would go about limiting this frienship. I do not let them go out together, like to the mall, or things like that (actually, I don't let her go to the mall with anyone, not just this girl...I see no point in it) I suppose i could forbid phone contact, and not let this girl come over to our house, but they would see each other at school anyway every day. I'm not sure how I could do that, in a practical way.
IMO and admittedly I have not had to worry about this (yet), I would not try to ban phone contact or try to keep the girl from your house. IMO, those things lead to some pretty fruitless power battles. Plus, you said the girl is kind of sweet despite being dealt a crappy hand of cards. Living the way she does is not good for a soul. It must be so nice for her to peek at what a "normal" family is like. If you are going to try to limit their time together, do what a pp suggested- fill your dd's time with other things she enjoys. If she likes a sport, see if there is a team she can get on. Places of worship usually have fun youth groups. If your dd is the nurturing kind, see about volunteering at an animal shelter or local hospital. I'm sure other people can throw out more ideas.

Don't try to break a bond- try to get your dd building more bonds in areas that she likes. I think we all have a friend or two (or more!) that is like your dd's friend. The trick is to be humane but still not limit friendships to only people in such need.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68* 
But this is something *you* are doing with your child as their parent. You might feel differently when your DD is 15 and wants to hang with the girl in school with the worst reputation. Think about it. When girls this age are together and one of them lives a life full of negativity or drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever, then it will be a major topic of discussion and what they are doing while alone together. How is that a good influence for anyone? Why is a 12 yr old girl supposed to be pushed in to taking on the enormity of a relationship such as this? Her parents should be pushing her to be a good kid and make good choices in life and having a friend like this is not such a good choice right now.

I remember what it was like being 12 and what sort of friends I had . . . lots of them were very different from me and into things that I would never have tried in a million years -- drugs, being emo and depressed (before it was cool,







), sex, etc. I knew about all those things because my parents talked with me about them, but just because my friends were doing them didn't mean I was or even wanted to. If anything, it made me feel good about myself in comparison (which was kind of lousy of me, in hindsight, but that's what it was at the time). And even so, most of the time we just talked about goofy people we disliked at school, or music or movies or random things that were funny to our 12 year old selves.

I highly doubt my opinion will change when my daughter is 12 or even 15. I'm already more liberal with my five year old than a lot of parents here are with their preteens!


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## Phantaja (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *iamthesmilingone* 

I'm farther out from 7th grade than you and went to a christian one at that but still knew kids doing drugs, drinking and having sex. I wonder how you missed it- not being snarky, just amazed.

I went to a school for the gifted and maybe we were all just a bunch of lames. I was the "bad girl" for having sex with the neighbor boy ONE TIME when I was that age. That reputation took a long, long time to go away.

Smoking weed, drinking, etc, became hot at around 15 or 16. One was a "dumb ass" or a stoner if s/he chose to get high/drunk before that. It wasn't a cool thing to do or shared with friends when I was 12. We were too cool to play with dolls and did have boyfriends, were into heavy petting and all of that, but sex, full out, baby making sex, just wasn't a done thing. Not till we got older. I didn't set foot into a Planned Parenthood till over this past summer when I popped in to get an AIDS test.

Perhaps I was an irresponsible twelve year old. My friends and I just had better things to do than to get laid after school.


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