# Soooo, what about those rear-facing 3rd row seats in station wagons?



## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

My dad has an Audi Quattro with the 3rd row flip-down rear-facing seating. When he came to visit recently, my boy (ages 4 and almost 6) rode back there. I let them ride w/out boosters, b/c the seatbelts fit them right with out them. The owners manual says, in fact, that no-one *over* 4'9" can ride back there.

So, O wise car seat gurus, what do you think?

And, while I'm at it....

My dh's truck has a 3/4 sized back seat. My ds sometimes complains about his legs being cramped in his booster (booster puts him up higher, which means his legs hit the recline of the seat in front of him, yk). The truck has this little clip that is attached to the door by an elastic cord, and then clips to the seat belt to adjust the fit of the belt. Again, this is how the owner's manual tells us to use it. Our old foster son (aged 9/10) did use it.

Would it be safe to let my 6 y.o. ds use that instead of his booster in the truck?

If the belt fits properly without a booster, is there some other reason for using the booster? What if using the booster makes the belt *not* fit properly?

Talk amongst yourselves. I'll be







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## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

: I've wondered about those 3rd row seats in wagons too....


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

My beef with the 3rd row in wagons is that this puts children in the crumple zone. I would be interested to see crash test ratings of those things...off to research...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gus'smama* 
If the belt fits properly without a booster, is there some other reason for using the booster? What if using the booster makes the belt *not* fit properly?

What are you talking about in terms of "proper fit"? The problem with younger kids in a seatbelt only is the fit of the lap belt. I would be very surprised if a 6 year old had a lapbelt fitting properly


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
My beef with the 3rd row in wagons is that this puts children in the crumple zone. I would be interested to see crash test ratings of those things...off to research...


I've read there are a *couple* of car brands where that is not the case... perhaps volvo?

Don't know about audi.

-Angela


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## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Yes, I have a Volvo with a third row seat and I have read things that lead me to believe that they are safe (in Volvos exclusively). I've been considering putting my oldest back there for carpooling. I like that he'd be rear-facing, at least, even though not in a 5-pt. harness (he rides in a Britax Husky primarily). I think those seats may have a 50 lb. minimum, though, so it might be a little while before he hits that (he's 46 now). I need to double check.


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
.
What are you talking about in terms of "proper fit"? The problem with younger kids in a seatbelt only is the fit of the lap belt. I would be very surprised if a 6 year old had a lapbelt fitting properly









elaborate please. I always thought it was about the fit of the shoulder belt. FWIW, the 3rd row seat is smaller -- the seat, the belt, the belt height etc, the whole thing is scaled down.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hottmama* 
I like that he'd be rear-facing, at least, even though not in a 5-pt. harness (he rides in a Britax Husky primarily). I think those seats may have a 50 lb. minimum, though, so it might be a little while before he hits that (he's 46 now). I need to double check.


Right, I thought about the rfacing advantage. Although I agree about the 5 pt harness -- my 4 yr old rides in a ffing marathon in my van, but my almost 6 yr old is in a parkway booster, so *if* the belt fit etc is equal in a booster or the rear facing row, then theoretically he'd be safer rfing, right?


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

FYI. Most car seat manuals that i have read prohibit putting a forward facing car seat on a rear facing vehicle seat. I know that britax and radian both prohibit using their seats on vehicle seats that are side ways facing as well.

I don't know if boosters have the same rules. I would think they might since many are only tested in forward facing crashes.

Denise


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cutekid* 
FYI. Most car seat manuals that i have read prohibit putting a forward facing car seat on a rear facing vehicle seat. I know that britax and radian both prohibit using their seats on vehicle seats that are side ways facing as well.

I don't know if boosters have the same rules. I would think they might since many are only tested in forward facing crashes.

Denise

Right- no carseats of any sort allowed. But I think the posters with these seats are speaking of putting older kids back there withOUT boosters etc.

-Angela


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gus'smama* 
elaborate please. I always thought it was about the fit of the shoulder belt. FWIW, the 3rd row seat is smaller -- the seat, the belt, the belt height etc, the whole thing is scaled down.

No, the lap belt is the vital one. The reason behind this is because if the lap belt is too high, on the stomach, in an accident all of the internal organs get smushed. The lap belt needs to be low on the lap, crossing the thighs, as the femurs are very strong. The pelvic bones in children are still immature and not able to withstand forces of a crash. So, a child in a properly fitting lap belt looks different than an adult in one (as adults wear the lap belt across the hips). Here is an article with some pictures that might help









Does the 3rd row have whiplash protection (head rests)?


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I had a VolvoV70 until a couple months ago (now grandma has it) and the user manual says not to put a car seat of any kind in the back jump seat. Also, the max weight allowed was 65lbs per seat...


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## sugarmoon (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
No, the lap belt is the vital one. The reason behind this is because if the lap belt is too high, on the stomach, in an accident all of the internal organs get smushed. The lap belt needs to be low on the lap, crossing the thighs, as the femurs are very strong. The pelvic bones in children are still immature and not able to withstand forces of a crash. So, a child in a properly fitting lap belt looks different than an adult in one (as adults wear the lap belt across the hips). Here is an article with some pictures that might help









Does the 3rd row have whiplash protection (head rests)?

thanks. I'll check out the pictures, but I'll have to wait until I see my dad again (not super frequently) to check how the lap belts fit my kids.

And yes, it did have headrests. I wouldn't have let them ride there w/out headrests. I can't speak for any other vehicles though, of course.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
No, the lap belt is the vital one. The reason behind this is because if the lap belt is too high, on the stomach, in an accident all of the internal organs get smushed. The lap belt needs to be low on the lap, crossing the thighs, as the femurs are very strong.

Is a lap belt supposed to be like that on everyone? My sable wagon used to fit like that, but in the cherokee I cannot get the belt to sit down on my thighs, nor can DH. Now at 6.5 mo pg I can get it to stay under my belly, but it's across my pubic bone.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Is a lap belt supposed to be like that on everyone? My sable wagon used to fit like that, but in the cherokee I cannot get the belt to sit down on my thighs, nor can DH. Now at 6.5 mo pg I can get it to stay under my belly, but it's across my pubic bone.

Nope, in adults the lap belt is supposed to go directly across the hip bones. In adults, the pelvic bones are big and solid and sturdy. Not so in children, which is why the lap belt needs to go across the thighs.


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