# 18 month old grabbing cat's tail as hard as she can



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

she grabs it and twists it around her hand, causing the cat's hind legs to come off the floor. he hisses and yells. not very fun for mr. fluffy









we've explained it hurts the cat, we've taken her away from the cat and held her hands and talked gently at her level about it. the cat doesn't scratch her because he's declawed. (the other cat, who has claws, she messes with less.) so there is no real natural consequence to what she's doing. we also have a hard time separating her from the cats for any period of time--they can jump gates, so that doesn't help, and we don't want to lock the cats together in the basement--that's no kind of life for them, and besides, they hate each other and need their space from each other.

she also hits the cats and pokes at their buttholes. she's basically a holy terror where the cats are concerned, and when they hiss she laughs. and she laughs when we try to talk to her about it.

this is the kind of behavior that makes me consider time-outs. i know she's young, and i don't want to be overly punitive, but sheesh, she can't just go around abusing animals. and i can't let the cat be a casualty in this as i try to figure out how to parent her.


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## Bay Area Babe (May 15, 2006)

We have a book called "tails are not for pulling" which has helped some with our 2yo. I've heard that making a big fuss over the pet can also help.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

We do time-outs for hurting the dog. For me, it's a safety issue, and the consequence is as natural as I can do without allowing the dog to plow over her in making his escape. She hurts the dog = she's separated from the dog for her own safety. I put her in the pack-and-play and talk to her about why she can't hurt the dog. The next cat-tail she grabs (or the one she grabs in 6 months) might not be the tail of your nice, declawed kitty, you know?


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## Jesskathand (Dec 30, 2007)

OP, I am interested to hear the advice you get!

I think I need to get that book. "tails are not for pulling"

My DS is 7.5 months and grabs everything, including the cats! They all have their claws but do not scratch DS! I think they understand he's a baby. When he grabs too hard, they leave.

I talk to DS about why we pet gently. I pet the cats in front of him. While I think babies 'get' more than we think they understand, I don't know how much DS sees that this hurts the cats.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

My son is right there with your daughter pulling tails as hard as he can. My cats are not declawed, but my one who is super friendly just lays there and lets it happen. For a while I was just letting it go sort of almost hoping the cat would finally take a (somewhat gentle) swipe at DS, but he really just lets DS beat on him and does nothing about it. Well, now my cat is pulling his hair out of his back legs like crazy. He always has done this a bit when stressed, but now it is a HUGE bald patch. I am also looking for ways to protect my kitty and teach DS how to be gentle with the cats. So far I am at a complete loss. I really don't do time outs, and wish there was another way to handle it.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

The tail is such an obvious handle, it's not strange they want to grab it!









We used to physically and carefully liberate the cat, then hold both cat and toddler on lap, hold his hand and stroke the cat with it, talking about how the cat really likes being stroked gently (although the cat would usually have to be held quite firmly







). We never use time-outs, I think they lead to resentment and can make things worse.

My three learned really quickly this way, my granddaughter not so quickly, but she got it in the end. It's all about do's, not don't's, they need to be taught and shown what to do.


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## closedaccount15 (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabbitmum* 
The tail is such an obvious handle, it's not strange they want to grab it!









We used to physically and carefully liberate the cat, then hold both cat and toddler on lap, hold his hand and stroke the cat with it, talking about how the cat really likes being stroked gently (although the cat would usually have to be held quite firmly







). We never use time-outs, I think they lead to resentment and can make things worse.

My three learned really quickly this way, my granddaughter not so quickly, but she got it in the end. It's all about do's, not don't's, they need to be taught and shown what to do.

We do this too, and while she does have her days (usually when my DD hasn't napped or something) for the most part it's gotten better. And as horrible as it is, I have a really pissy fat cat who is not declawed and does take swipes at her quite often, so that does curb it sometimes. She has been whacked on the face a few times. I also showed her how to play nice, I gave her a long string to use for the cat and she plays with the cat more than torments him now


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## preggymeaggy (Jul 25, 2006)

My dd is 20 months and I created a thread about this too. It seems to be a common hurdle for this age!!
I guess it just boils down to lots of patience and showing them over and over how to pet gently. It can really get on your last nerve though, especially at the end of a long day!


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## frog (Jun 1, 2005)

You need to keep your child away from the cats until she's old enough to treat them with respect. Supervision ALL THE TIME.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frog* 
You need to keep your child away from the cats until she's old enough to treat them with respect. Supervision ALL THE TIME.

um, i am supervising her









otherwise how would i know she's doing all this?

and i stop her as soon as she starts doing this. and we talk about it EVERY SINGLE TIME. but i can't keep her from touching the cats unless i strap her down. which isn't very GD, is it?


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
um, i am supervising her









otherwise how would i know she's doing all this?

and i stop her as soon as she starts doing this. and we talk about it EVERY SINGLE TIME. but i can't keep her from touching the cats unless i strap her down. which isn't very GD, is it?

I think what Frog is saying is that you need to keep them separated. That is supervise them to make sure they stay separated. It doesn't mean to let them sit next to eachother and watch her hurt the cat. As one of the frequent posters, cat people over here on MDC I would wholeheartedly agree with her.

Supervise her to make sure that she does not have direct contact with the cats. Also, I would suggest either making your own "warning noise" or a noise device to warn the cat if the child starts lunging/walking towards them. I have my own noise. A loud, distinct "che-che" which also is their warning to 'move' if they are on an inapproriate surface. So, at this point they understand that noise 'get out of her quick'.

At 18 months old all you can do is model correct behavior for her. You can talk, explain and model to her as she gets older. Eventually, usually around the age of 4 you can safely have some supervised petting sessions/play sessions. Until about that age the child doesn't seem to be able to understand that they're not some cute, fluffy, stuffed animal to play with. They shouldn't be allowed cat access and cat handling abilities until they are old enough.

I've raised all three of my kiddos (and one on the way) with existing older cats. And, I've introduced three new cats who were adults who did not have ANY experience with children. Following those basics I have had no issues with my toddlers/young children. None of my children have even been scratched. And, all of them really respect the cats. Which makes me really proud to see how much (in particular my older two, my DS is still young) they respect the cats and care for them. My two oldest ones enjoy petting them, and participate in feeding/watering and play sessions. And, none of my children are allowed to pick up the cat either...even my oldest, who is near 7. Not until I am assured that she can carefully support a cat properly will I allow it.

JMHO. Hope the information helps.


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## beansricerevolt (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phatchristy* 
I think what Frog is saying is that you need to keep them separated. That is supervise them to make sure they stay separated. It doesn't mean to let them sit next to eachother and watch her hurt the cat. As one of the frequent posters, cat people over here on MDC I would wholeheartedly agree with her.

Supervise her to make sure that she does not have direct contact with the cats. Also, I would suggest either making your own "warning noise" or a noise device to warn the cat if the child starts lunging/walking towards them. I have my own noise. A loud, distinct "che-che" which also is their warning to 'move' if they are on an inapproriate surface. So, at this point they understand that noise 'get out of her quick'.

At 18 months old all you can do is model correct behavior for her. You can talk, explain and model to her as she gets older. Eventually, usually around the age of 4 you can safely have some supervised petting sessions/play sessions. Until about that age the child doesn't seem to be able to understand that they're not some cute, fluffy, stuffed animal to play with. They shouldn't be allowed cat access and cat handling abilities until they are old enough.

I've raised all three of my kiddos (and one on the way) with existing older cats. And, I've introduced three new cats who were adults who did not have ANY experience with children. Following those basics I have had no issues with my toddlers/young children. None of my children have even been scratched. And, all of them really respect the cats. Which makes me really proud to see how much (in particular my older two, my DS is still young) they respect the cats and care for them. My two oldest ones enjoy petting them, and participate in feeding/watering and play sessions. And, none of my children are allowed to pick up the cat either...even my oldest, who is near 7. Not until I am assured that she can carefully support a cat properly will I allow it.

JMHO. Hope the information helps.



















excellent advice!


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I have an 18 month old who does the same things. We simply remove the cat from the room she is in. My daughter is still very much a "baby" and way to young to understand WHY what she is doing is wrong. She would have no idea why she was in time out.


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## lindsayjean (Jun 17, 2006)

My DD just started to kind of be into pulling hair every so often. Obviously you can't separate/shield your daughter from ever coming into contact with your cat, just like I can't shield my daughter from ever coming into contact with someone with hair. You can watch them super closely- always be right be them- and you're still going to have it happen every so often... I think it just takes being RIGHT there to stop it right when it happens, or as you see her about to do it if you can, and explaining it. I JUST posted something about not feeling like my daughter (20 months) was even getting it when I'd tell her gentle and about how it hurts. She just laughs and tries again!!

I think, though, eventually they will get it. 18 months is still soo soooo young. They are still trying to learn cause and effect and I read somewhere that they do things over and over to see if they get the same response each time.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

A child won't learn why not to pull on a cat's tail by going in time-out. An 18-month-old is still a baby. If your dd goes near the cat, move the cat away from her until she gets older and is able to understand.


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## missbuns (Oct 16, 2007)

My 17 month old does the exact same thing lately. She finds it interesting that the cat reacts in such a curious way...I'm sure she has no idea it "hurts" him or even what that means. She has never really been hurt so I'm sure she has no concept.

What I do is remove her hand, say "he doesn't LIKE IT" in a firm way, cradle the poor cat and pet him gently until he relaxes. Then I ask her if she wants to be gentle and pet the cat. She always does. Then pulls his tail a couple hours later.

The problem is the cat loves her and wants to hang out with us all the time. So if she's playing on the rug the cat wants to sit on the rug next to her. I can't really keep them apart. It worries me because he has super sharp claws (he's only scratched her once so far) and I'm nervous about her eyes. But besides what I'm doing I'm not sure what else would work. Time out would confuse her I think.

Anyway, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.


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## mackysmama (Jan 11, 2005)

Oh, yes, we had this issue. Poor kitty. I tried and tried and tried to teach my dd "gentle touch." It didn't work - she was too young to understand and didn't have the impulse control. I realized it was something we had to get through until she outgrew it (which she did - she's very gentle with him now.) We installed a cat door on our utility room so I could put the cat in there to give him a break (maybe the cat thought he was getting a time-out but I think he was happy to be safe). The cat door locks so I could keep him in there if necessary but we usually left it open and he choose to stay-in until the coast was clear. The cat door had lots of option - it could stay open, lock from both sides, or it could be locked so little hands couldn't push into it but the cat could still push out (but then he couldn't get back in.) His food and litter box were also in there (which was another reason for the cat door - no access to litter and food for toddler hands but the kitty could go in when he wanted a break or to eat, etc.). I know a lot of people thought we weren't addressing the "real problem" but I don't believe in punishments, especially for something that is normal, expected toddler behavior. It all worked out in the end and my dd and kitty regularly love on each other.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

thanks for the advice. i wanted to update and say we've started giving the cats little safety "time-outs" (putting them in the basement where the food, water, and litter boxes are anyhow) when DD gets too rough. it's working well in preventing her from really hurting them.

i still don't see how i'd keep them separated at all times, though. there is no way they would respond to a certain sound or warning. one of them is too dumb to get away from her and just lets her do whatever to him; he won't move away to defend himself at all









then my cat is a little devil and goes and baits her, sits RIGHT BY HER and waits till she pulls her tail, then swats her









seriously, both cats have virtually no desire to get away from her, which is part of the problem!!


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## Twwly (Jan 30, 2007)

We don't personally do time outs, but if we were to, IMO 18 mos is too young.

Our DS sometimes tail pulls still, despite months of GENTLE, GENTLE with the cat PLEASE.

We remove the cat from the situation, ask him to pet her gently, tell him that if he wants CatCat to sit with him he will have to be GENTLE with her and then she would LOVE to be with him. Etc.


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *preggymeaggy* 
I guess it just boils down to lots of patience and showing them over and over how to pet gently.

No, it boils down to protecting the innocent pet from being baby's living punching bag until baby is no longer a danger to the pet.


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