# breech baby told must have c section



## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

hi
this is my first baby, were 36 weeks right now, and hes lying breech in the frank position (apparently harder to turn), and i was told yeserday that he is unlikely to turn now as my first child, and i have been booked in for a c section.
im posting as im nervous, petrified etc, need some positive thoughts on it all. How bad is it afterwards, will it effect my chances of breastfeeding (as have read hard to lift your baby). Been reading lots but would love to hear some positive thoughts and experiences of c sections.

thanks
heather


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## leakyandsnort (Apr 16, 2002)

i don't know the answers to your questions, but I wanted to let you know that there is a chiropractic technique called the Weber technique and also something that acupuncturists do called moxibustion that both have good results at turning babies, even close to term. Perhaps you could find a practitioner near you to try either one?

Good luck, and congratulations!
kathy


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

When have they scheduled the c-section for? In my understanding it's important to go as far to term as possible, esp. since this is your first baby and first babies are an average of 8 days "late" anyway. (In other countries term is considered 41 weeks). The longer your baby cooks, the healthier s/he will be. I would not myself do a section before 40 weeks. If they will let you go into labor then section you, even better - that way you know baby is ready and you won't have to worry so much about prematurity.

In terms of breastfeeding, it may make things a little more challenging but there's no reason you won't be able to breastfeed. It would be a good idea to find a board-certified lactation consultant who's experienced with c-births and/or a post-partum doula to help out. You can find an IBCLC here:

regional registry

Here's a page from Kellymom on nursing after a c-birth: link

Kellymom is an invaluable site and I highly recommend you spend some time reading through it.

I would definitely look into the chiropractic, etc. Have you gotten a second opinion? Many OBs these days are just not trained to handle breech births as anything other than a section.


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## kcwilliams (Nov 19, 2001)

There is still plenty of time for baby to turn, but many OBs won't allow it. Also, frank breech is the best breech position for vaginal delivery. Research shows elective cesarean for breech delivery has not improved outcomes for mother or baby at all! Many OBs aren't trained in delivering breech babies, and today's OBs methods might make it more dangerous (like lying on your back to labor and deliver). But a skilled caregiver in breech deliveries would assure you vaginal birth is still the safest and best. Check out http://www.breechbabies.com for more information if you're interested.

As for turning, there are some simple exercises, posture and positioning techniques that might encourage baby to turn. http://www.breechbabies.com/turning.htm lists most of them.

Also, if you schedule an early c/section, you risk the baby being born premature (among other things), and you'll never know if the baby would have turned on its own. I've even read a story of baby turning during the spinal for the c/section on the operating table, but the mom didn't insist on an u/s when she felt the flip, so she had the c/s anyway, and was devastated by it.

The technique mentioned by the poster above is the "Webster Technique," and typically has better results than an ECV (external cephalic version). It might be difficult to find a chiropractor properly trained in this technique, but it's certainly worth trying IMO.

I'm not a good one to give advice on the c-section. My ds#2 was born via emergency c-section under general anesthesia due to a cord compression, so I don't remember any of it. I do know that when I realized what was going to happen, I grabbed my husband by the shirt collar and said "They're going to knock me out, don't let them give him formula!!" So in the recovery room when I woke up, DH and a nurse latched ds on to nurse. I don't really remember it because I was so out of it, but I know they did. I continued to get their help that night and the next day, then we did ok after that. He nursed to 21 months. I have a vertical abdominal incision and a low horizontal uterine incision, so I was cut criss-cross, and it was much harder to take care of a newborn while healing, but we managed.

Cindy, usually a lurker
Thomas (v/b 11/20/97)
Daniel (c/s 6/25/01 cord compression)
#3 due early April, 2004, planning a VBAC


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

You have gotten some good advice on ideas to turn the baby, which you should be able to discuss with your OB.

If you do end up going for the c-birth, read the cesarean support circle thread on here
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=92819
we are a group of women, who have all had c-births, and we can help you with any questions/concerns you may have.

HTH!


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## Chelly2003 (Jan 5, 2003)

I had a c-section for my son - footling breech. My doctor didn't schedule a section, he waited for me to go into labor, so he was called out at 10pm on a Thurday night!!
I was annoyed to find out that the nurse in the recovery room had given my son formula from a cup (!!!) while I was recovering, and when I finally got to hold him while in the recovery room, I did nurse him, till the nurse got all annoyed with me saying nursing him for 20 minutes was too long, and I probably didn't have enough to satisfy him! (WISH I knew better at the time)
I did breastfeed him till he was 6 months old, but for most of that time he wouldn't take the breast, and I'd have to pump and feed him with a bottle - I also went back to work when he was 8 weeks old, that could have had something to do with the bottle only idea he had.
I had moxibustion treatments (filmed for the discovery channel - so they were FREE treatments) and visited my chiro every week while pregnant, and nothing would make him turn. I did the excersizes as well...... he was a stubborn one.
Good luck, and your baby still has time to turn - I hope that happens!!


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## ilovebeingamom (Jan 1, 2002)

My son was also delivered by c-section due to being footling breech. My water broke at 37 weeks, so it wasn't scheduled yet. I tried the exercises, and going to a pool and doing somersaults in the water to get him to turn and he never did. I remember once while I was laying in the inverted position he really tried, but then popped back.

I was very depressed about the c-section. I didn't like the effect of the drugs, and it wasn't the celebration I had pictured all those months. Our first nursing session was very clumsy, he wouldn't latch on, and it made me even more depressed. I didn't feel bonded to him at first like I thought I would, which made me feel like a horrible mother. But by the next day, the drugs were wearing off, and we kept trying over and over to get him to nurse. We tried lots of skin to skin contact. I remember the first time I got him to nurse for twenty minutes, I was so happy. It was the second day in the hospital.

I have to say, nursing was what gave me some confidence and joy about the birth. Nothing else went the way I had hoped, but I was still able to feed my baby the way I wanted.

Good luck and I hope that babe turns for you, if not, you can still breastfeed. It might take a little more work in teh beginning, but it is worth it. Ds is going to be three and we are now working on weaning.


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## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

Thanks for the help, suggestions and support.
This forum and all the information contained here is a great help.

fingers crossed he turns before the 19th of jan, if not with all the info here and other stuff im reading were prepared.

thanks again
excited but nervous new mom
heather


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

fyi

i had a frank breech baby then and hour and a half later her twin came out a footling. i had a skilled midwife who was trained well. we had all discussed beforehand the scenarios we were comfortable with and the scenarios inwhich we would transport. a frank breech was just not one of them. now if the first had been a footling, yes we would have transferred to the hospital.

talk with your OB about it and see what both of you are comfy with. i hope you feel free to find another care provider if you remain uncomfortable with the decision described above....

also I hear GREAT things about the Webster technique!!!!!!

keep us posted.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

On The Fence Again~

Hope you check out our csection thread because if you are going to have a csection, might as well be prepared and have a plan before having a surgical birth.

As for me I will tell you from my experience -- personally and through education, that I would not allow anyone to try and deliver a breech baby vaginally unless they are very skilled in doing so. I personally believe the risk is too high with a first time mom. Also do research into versions. I had one and it was the worst thing I ever did. I still had to have a csection and it turned into an emergency one at that. I thing trying the Webster Technique is a good one and giving yourself until your due date to see if baby will turn on its own.
I am not one to say go into labor first when it comes to a breech baby that you know will be born by cesarean, but I would wait it out past 39 weeks and close to the due date. I think to have a good csection and being prepared, talking to the lactation consultant before hand, etc is a much better idea.

Goodluck!

Kim


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

i got a homepathic remedy from my doc for other reasons, and 2 days later the baby turned. he was traverse and it was 28 weeks, but when i told my doc, she said it was common. if you have a classic homeopath closeby, you could check into that, as well.

i could never understand the mandatory c-sec for a breech baby. i think you should try to find someone who isn't scared out of their pants by such a proposition. it's not bad for the baby, it's just that ob's are insecure - at least, their insurance companies are.

i suppose the above doesn't help you make your decision, and i'm sorry to be so opinionated at your expense, but if you need the strength to make that decision - i'm behind you. your body is built for birthing whether you've had a child or not. your body wil do what it needs to to birth the baby, backwards or frontwards.

loving blessings to you.

Lori


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by MysticHealerMom_
*i got a homepathic remedy from my doc for other reasons, and 2 days later the baby turned. he was traverse and it was 28 weeks, but when i told my doc, she said it was common. if you have a classic homeopath closeby, you could check into that, as well.

i could never understand the mandatory c-sec for a breech baby. i think you should try to find someone who isn't scared out of their pants by such a proposition. it's not bad for the baby, it's just that ob's are insecure - at least, their insurance companies are.

i suppose the above doesn't help you make your decision, and i'm sorry to be so opinionated at your expense, but if you need the strength to make that decision - i'm behind you. your body is built for birthing whether you've had a child or not. your body wil do what it needs to to birth the baby, backwards or frontwards.

loving blessings to you.

Lori*
Sometimes baby's are breech for a reason. Not everyone is built for birthing vaginally. That is an assumption and attitude by many here. There are risks involved in birthing a breech vaginal baby, especially for a first time mother. It is becoming harder to find skilled professionals, midwives and doctors, to deliver breech babies.
You need to feel comfortable and be at peace with any decision you make, but not bullied or scared into one way or the other.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by OnTheFence_
*Sometimes baby's are breech for a reason. Not everyone is built for birthing vaginally. That is an assumption and attitude by many here. There are risks involved in birthing a breech vaginal baby, especially for a first time mother. It is becoming harder to find skilled professionals, midwives and doctors, to deliver breech babies.
You need to feel comfortable and be at peace with any decision you make, but not bullied or scared into one way or the other.*
Do you think we are bullying her here? Just curious b/c it doesn't sound like her doc is bullying her and it doesn't seem to me like any woman here is bullying her so I am confused by your use of it.

Anyway, scubamom...please keep us posted. We all know how hard it is to be a first time mom and have all the research and decisions to do and make. Overall, out of my experience all I can say is do the research, search your heart and trust your gut. That will be the best decision for you and your baby.

I was told, scolded, etc all about the dangers of breech, and twins and all that. But I decided to trust my instincts and do the research and find a birth team that supported my decision but also was EXCEEDINGLY WELL trained. I had a fantastic back-up perinatologist at a hospital (with the highest C-birth rate in the city) closeby in the event that we needed to transfer. We didn't need to transfer and had a beautiful homebirth. My midwife unwrapped the cords form their necks with skill and ease and cared for other complications without panic or use of dramatic procedures. I knew that the birth, whatever the outcome, was the best for us and our babies becuase we had followed our hearts and used our minds. I would have felt that way had we chosen a hospital and had we chosen a C-birth.

(I call them C-births becuase it is just a way that a child, like Caesar, is born. I think the term section is abrasive and people forget it is a birth of a child.)

I support you WHATEVER you choose. And congrats. This is an exciting time for you!!!!

Peace,


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

As someone who has had 2 c-births and will have another in 4 weeks







, I wanted to say that I know where OTF is coming from, sometimes while people feel pressured by their OBs to have a c-birth, others feel pressure to be "au natural" and always do things to an extreme that way. I really think doing the research, and truly listening to your heart are very imporant on issues like this, I don't think your heart will lead you wrong, where your head sometimes can.

I had my first c-birth due to breech presentation (shoulder presentation). I really thought version would be the right thing, from all my research, but my gut told me not to do it, I was confused, b/c I wanted natural, but in the end I was glad that I listened to my heart. Your heart may tell you the opposite, just learn what you can, and listen to your instincts (kind of like the whole parenting thing is anyway, right?)

ITA with OTF that it is best to research c-birth- I went into my first one totally unprepared, and never knew I had any choices on anything, I felt like a c-birth was completely out of my hands, when you take control of c-births, they can be wonderful and beautiful, so it is good to be prepared for the possiblity no matter what way your heart tells you to go.

Best wishes!


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## Chelly2003 (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jess7396_
*I had my first c-birth due to breech presentation (shoulder presentation). I really thought version would be the right thing, from all my research, but my gut told me not to do it, I was confused, b/c I wanted natural, but in the end I was glad that I listened to my heart. Your heart may tell you the opposite, just learn what you can, and listen to your instincts (kind of like the whole parenting thing is anyway, right?)

*
I can agree totally. My son was breech, and I was offered a version, and for whatever reason I felt VERY uncomfortable about doing that and chose not to...... who knows what might have happened had I not trusted my instincts.... I had the c-section and although I was disapointed, my son was perfectly healthy.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Versions can be pretty traumatic to woman and their babies and their bodies. I have read various research, contradicting, etc. I have read that ECV has a 50-70% success rate but that out of those 1/3 will still have to have csections for whatever reason. (from what I read, looks like failed inductions after successful version) What it boils down to is your doctors experience and success rate, you need to ask first how many they have done, how many were successful and how many still ended up being delivered by cesarean that were successful.
I did the ECV, desperate for a natural vaginal birth. I let them attempt it three times with no pain medication. Imagine a two ton elephant doing the twist on your uterus -- that is what it felt like. I had an ultrasound first to get exact position of baby (recommended), before I had an IV put in because if baby was going to be turned I was going to be induced. (I was 11 days from due date) Before the proceedure no one told me the risks that the ECV would pose to my baby. She was bruised. She went into distress and pooped meconium. Her heart rate went extrmemely high and then bottomed out. My blood pressure dropped dangerously low. I then had to have an emergency csection. I was completely unaware of these risks. Also no one told me my baby could tangled in the cord and that the risk of prolapse cord was greater either with an ECV. I learned that later.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

The REASON a baby is breech is usually the problem, not the presentation itself.

The reasons are:

prematurity,
irregular uterine shape,
placenta previa,
short or long cord,
hydrocephalis,
contracted pelvis.

Doctors do not know how to deliver a breech properly and are not trained. Some very skillful midwives I know prefer sacrum or breech presentations for their own reasons.

"Scapular" or shoulder presentations are considered "transverse". Other problem presentations are "mentum", or facial, usually the chin. These are usually accompanied by a birth defect.

Good luck.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*The REASON a baby is breech is usually the problem, not the presentation itself.
The reasons are:
prematurity,
irregular uterine shape,
placenta previa,
short or long cord,
hydrocephalis,
contracted pelvis.
Doctors do not know how to deliver a breech properly and are not trained. Some very skillful midwives I know prefer sacrum or breech presentations for their own reasons.
"Scapular" or shoulder presentations are considered "transverse". Other problem presentations are "mentum", or facial, usually the chin. These are usually accompanied by a birth defect.
Good luck.*
Not all breeches are for the aforementioned reasons. In fact, my twins were born two days after their due date, my uterus is a normal shape, I did not have placenta previa, abnormal cords, hydrocephalis, or a contracted pelvis. I HAD, however, expereience a tramatic event a month before their due date and I felt them turn and stay there. IMO and what midwives have shared with me, emotional reasons play into affect as well.

My second born singleton was breech until right before I pushed. He turned and you could see my entire belly moving and yes, it hurt. But he was born head first and while the cord was all wrapped around his neck, the midwife, (same one as Twins) did a great job. A week before HIS birth we had moved cross country and before we left the East Coast he had been vertex (head down). So I tend to think that emotional reasons, at least in my womb, can paly a role.

I am a little uncomfortable is saying that breech presentations are solely for medical or emotional complications though.

I ABSOLUTELY love your stories here of how you trusted your instincts and hearts for your births. THAT is what we can offer to other women, encouragement ultimately to do what is best for them with freedom and support.


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

How are you Scubamom?


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## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by OnTheFence_
*Versions can be pretty traumatic to woman and their babies and their bodies. I have read various research, contradicting, etc. I have read that ECV has a 50-70% success rate but that out of those 1/3 will still have to have csections for whatever reason. (from what I read, looks like failed inductions after successful version) What it boils down to is your doctors experience and success rate, you need to ask first how many they have done, how many were successful and how many still ended up being delivered by cesarean that were successful.
I did the ECV, desperate for a natural vaginal birth. I let them attempt it three times with no pain medication. Imagine a two ton elephant doing the twist on your uterus -- that is what it felt like. I had an ultrasound first to get exact position of baby (recommended), before I had an IV put in because if baby was going to be turned I was going to be induced. (I was 11 days from due date) Before the proceedure no one told me the risks that the ECV would pose to my baby. She was bruised. She went into distress and pooped meconium. Her heart rate went extrmemely high and then bottomed out. My blood pressure dropped dangerously low. I then had to have an emergency csection. I was completely unaware of these risks. Also no one told me my baby could tangled in the cord and that the risk of prolapse cord was greater either with an ECV. I learned that later.*
I wanted to share my external version story also. I had one done by my home birth midwives at 36 weeks. I have also attended one in the hospital as a doula. The one done by the midwife was completely different than the medical model one. The medical model involves using strength to quickly turn the the baby. The one by my midwife was gental and slow (using palpatation and the doppler to determine the position of the baby and umbilical cord). She did it as part of a massage. No trama, no pain. In fact she told me that if I did feel pain to let her know because that is a bad thing. She said that the numbing drugs that they use on the uterus in the hospital make it so that the mother does not feel, and therefore can not give feedback.

BTW - if the version had not worked, I was still planning a homebirth, my midwives had experience with them, and I felt confident that it would be fine. I agree with the other posters that you need to follow your heart.

Also, as a doula, I know several doulas that have been hired to go to a planned c-section. They can help with visualizations to help you keep calm, taking pictures, holding the baby (or staying with you so that your partner can hold the baby), letting you know what is going on, and are a big help getting breastfeeding started.

Have you looked into moxa? It is a chinese herb that they burn next to your little toe. It has a very high succes rate with turning breech babies.

Whatever you decide, I am sure that the birth will go well.

Victorian

Victorian


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

I had a version as well. Not fun. At all. But successful, in that they turned the baby without complications and I left. I had a vaginal birth at home a couple weeks later. I am surprised that you were under-informed about the risks OTF. I actually felt... sort of over informed. The Dr.s office had been very clear of the risks, I did research.. I knew. The morning it was scheduled I really wanted to put all that out of my mind so I could relax. Then the doc comes bustling in, talking about abruptions and crash sections and all of that... so much for relaxation!


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Victoria, thanks for a great post. Just for the record, I did have a similar type version at home by a skilled professional that was nothing like what I got at the hospital. We had Enya playing in the background, listened for baby, talked to her, and they used gentle massage techniques and refloxology to get her to move. It didnt work for me but I would recommend this over a hospital one for sure!

Kim


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## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

hi
well i still dont think the little guy has turned yet but have a Drs appt today and then a scan on friday to confirm his position, so will keep you posted.
In my heart i dont think he will turn before were due, as he has been in this exact same position so long i think hes to comfortable!!!!!! But thats ok, im scared about the section but coming to terms with it, plus i just had some great news my mom is flying over from the UK to spend some time here after the birth, which is great as we dont get to see her that often. Plus will help out a lot if not feeling the best afterwards, at least my husband will get fed and the dog walked, while i concentrate all my energies on the little one.

There have been lots of great suggestions here but my problem is location, as newfoundland although not backward doesnt have forward thinking either in these issues. Id be hard pressed to find chinese herbs, a chiropractor who knew the weber technique or even a doula, but then again maybe i just dont know where to look. But i do know from peoples reactions to the fact that im going to be using cloth diapers that they think im weird already!!!!!!!!!, and tell me i wont last 5 minutes.

thanks again everyone , i love this site its really supportive.
heather


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## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

that is so great about your mom coming! I am sure that will take a lot of stess off of you. Another thing that I thought of is to be sure that you have a great book on breastfeeding on hand (the Ultimate breastfeeding guide by Dr. Jack Newman is my fav.). Also, be sure to find out the hospitals protocals when it comes to c-babies. For example, some hospitals wont let you room-in with a c-section unless there is someone not on drugs in the room.

I did a quick search for you found:

Transitions
Birth Doula Service
Name: Mrs. Jayme Safine
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Phone: 709-749-0339
Email address: [email protected]
Qualifications: Student Midwife, Certified Doula

If you are intested in the other stuff, I would bet that she can point you in that direction.

Let us know how you are doing, I will be thinking of you and sending you positive birthing vibes.

Victorian


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Good birth vibes coming from me too, scubamom. Keep us posted okay?


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## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

well today is the big day
The little guy never turned so im going in this morning for the section, im ok about it and think it will be a marvelous experience whichever way i get to meet him.

its very early and im on the computer so i dont have to watch my husband eat breakfast, i have to starve but he needs his strength, so i made him eat.

well im nervous but oh so excited, cant believe i will meet the little guy in just over 3 hours, i will let u know how it all went when i get home.
thank you all so much for the tips and advice but mostly support

heather (soon to be mom)


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Happy birthing thoughts coming your way









My c-birth will be on Friday, so I hope to hear more from you before I go in, best wishes and congratulations! Also- come join the cesarean support circle when you get a chance.


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## scubamom (Dec 17, 2003)

well
im a mom!!! and i love it
my d/s was born on jan 19th by c section as he never turned, and little declan weighed in at 8.35 pounds.
the section went well, and i feel great, been home since friday and im healing well, still have some pain but im getting around great. It wasnt half as bad as i thought it would be, but i have been told after by other people that my OB is one of the best in the hospital!!! maybe made a difference, poor lady after me got the resident, she wasnt too happy!!

having some trouble b/f due to low milk supply (see other thread in b/f getting started) as way to long winded a story to bore u with here. But being at home and being with myd/s is wonderful, plus my d/h is being wonderful i couldnt ask for a better.

gotta run im a mom now (never seem to have much time anymore, or should i say anytime at all)
hev


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