# How do I handle this? Help quick please!!!



## waiting2bemommy

There are other threads here about my ds and his various issues, but today is the third time I have caught him doing this and I am at a loss.

If you already read, please feel free to comment but now that I've gotten some feedback already I've edited to remove the details.

Update on page 3


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## waiting2bemommy

anybody?

DP is coming home in a couple hrs and I texted him to tell him and I think he will hit the roof when he gets here. I haven't said anything to ds but he tried it AGAIN later and I said "no one touches your private parts" and he said "the dog can." and laughed. What if he does this somewhere else? yikes....


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## zinemama

Why on earth wouldn't you want to over-react to something like that? I'd have been shocked and shown it, and let my shock and disgust speak for itself. I can appreciate not wanting to shame your kid, but some behaviors are so far over the line unacceptable that a strong reaction is exactly what's needed.


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## Shonahsmom

I don't think this is something anyone on the internet can "help quick" with and I don't think its something you should have online about your kid.

Talk to a pediatrician or a child therapist or something. Not the internet.


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## Drummer's Wife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
> 
> I don't think this is something anyone on the internet can "help quick" with and I don't think its something you should have online about your kid.
> 
> Talk to a pediatrician or a child therapist or something. Not the internet.


Agreed.


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## waiting2bemommy

Because he is only 3 years old. I told him before "animals do not come near our private parts" and it seemed to go in one ear and out the other. that's why I'm posting for help addressing this. what am I supposed to do? spank him? ground him? get rid of the dog?

I just don't know what to do about a behavior that is completely unacceptable, yet I'm trying to eliminate harsh punishments and spanking from my home especially in light of the fact that some of his other unacceptable behaviors are due to factors somewhat beyond his control (ADHD for example).


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## LAWoman

What Shonahsmom said.

I can understand you wanting some guidance on this but there are a lot of red flags there. Please talk to a professional.

I would also advise you not to keep that post up for long. MDC is openly searchable by anyone and a post with those key words is not something I'd want floating around on the internet. In addition, your DS is very young now but he won't be forever and god forbid he find that some day.


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## Drummer's Wife

Can you keep him and the dog away from each other when he is not under your direct supervision?

I'd start with that.


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## Shonahsmom

Call your pediatrician tomorrow morning. Get a referral for a child therapist. Stop talking about it on the internet. The end.


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## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom*
> 
> Call your pediatrician tomorrow morning. Get a referral for a child therapist. Stop talking about it on the internet. The end.


We already have a psychologist for him due to the other issues going on with him. In fact we are going there tomorrow and this is certainly spmething that will be brought up. But I was just looking for advice on what to say to him in the meantime. I didn't want to say nothing at all, as if this is perfectly fine, but I didn't want to say the wrong thing, either.


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## graceomalley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> what am I supposed to do?


Take him to a pediatrician right now. Get an emergency appointment. Have him assessed for other signs of sexual abuse. Get him to a safe place (ie a child therapist) and get this off the internet. Do you realise how serious your post is?


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## Drummer's Wife

Have you discussed this behavior with the ped or another professional? I ask b/c this sn't isolated, and combined with some other things you have shared, including that your DS spends time at neighbors homes w/o you, there is a chance he has been exposed to something inappropriate or possibly abused.

I know you want to stay on the DL b/c of CPS and the authorities, but don't you think your DS is worth getting some help?

I would be freaking out, but not in the punishing/spanking/mad at my child way. I would be overly concerned about what is going on with him.


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## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> Have you discussed this behavior with the ped or another professional? I ask b/c thus isn't isolated, and combined with some other things you have shared, including that your DS spends time at neighbors homes w/o you, there is a chance he has been exposed to something inappropriate or possibly a used.
> 
> I know you want to stay on the DL b/c of CPS and the authorities, but don't you think your DS is worth getting some help?


maybe we cross posted, but my ds has been in therapy on and off since he was 2 and as mentioned above, we have a psych appt tomorrow. He has been evaluated multiple times for abuse including this past December when my mother called CPS on us, and each time nothing was found to be of concern. Of course something could have happened since then, but he has not been around anyone new (alone) since then. He just started a public preschool program last week but I seriously doubt this is related to that.


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## daniedb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> Have you discussed this behavior with the ped or another professional? I ask b/c this sn't isolated, and combined with some other things you have shared, including that your DS spends time at neighbors homes w/o you, there is a chance he has been exposed to something inappropriate or possibly abused.
> 
> I know you want to stay on the DL b/c of CPS and the authorities, but don't you think your DS is worth getting some help?
> 
> I would be freaking out, but not in the punishing/spanking/mad at my child way. I would be overly concerned about what is going on with him.


Absolutely. Combined with questionable behavior on the part of your DP that you've shared before, I would be running, not walking, to the psychologist and laying my heart bare. I would hold nothing back - nothing. Your boy deserves that.


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## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniedb*
> 
> Absolutely. Combined with questionable behavior on the part of your DP that you've shared before, I would be running, not walking, to the psychologist and laying my heart bare. I would hold nothing back - nothing. Your boy deserves that.


Ah, just to make sure this is clear, I have NEVER thought that my DP was sexually abusing either of our children. We have certainly had our issues but sexual abuse has never been something I worried about. and as mentioned, a forensic interview in December cleared both of us of any accusations of inappropriate behavior.


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## daniedb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Ah, just to make sure this is clear, I have NEVER thought that my DP was sexually abusing either of our children. We have certainly had our issues but sexual abuse has never been something I worried about. and as mentioned, a forensic interview in December cleared both of us of any accusations of inappropriate behavior.


There is a history of questionable behavior apart from sexual abuse allegations. A serious question: why do so many other women seem more concerned about your boy than you do? Maybe it's your writing style, maybe it's a lack of being f2f, but you seem defensive and minimize things when you receive responses. Would you consider thinking about that?


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## Lakeeffectsnow

Keep the dog and your son separated unless you are in the room. If you have a dog crate, keep the dog crated or use a baby gate to keep them separated. Most three year old children shouldn't be around dogs unsupervised around dogs no matter how much you trust the dog or the child. It's too easy for them to get knocked over, jumped on, or bitten. It's not really developmentally appropriate. Yes, keeping them separated is a pain and often inconvenient, but it's probably best under the circumstances.

What you tell your son is "That is private. You don't let the dog touch your private parts (or whatever word you use)." If he argues with and says it's okay. You say, "No, it is private."

Deal with it calmly and matter of fact. Without knowing your history, it's a serious red flag to me. While you may want to avoid CPS, I would take him in as soon as possible.


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## marinak1977

This maybe naive, but is it possible that he discovered that dog licking him feels nice after getting licked accidentally and he's using the dog to masturbate so to speak? I understand that lots of kids experiment with their privates (we haven't reached that point yet, but I do remember playing doctor with friends when little). I actually remember something similar happening to a friend (there was no abuse happening in that situation).
If a child is naive about sexuality and private behavior, he/she may be doing it because they don't think it's wrong. In that case, I'd focus on explaining over and over how the private parts are for him only to touch, and keeping the dog away. I'd also act very sad/disappointed if I caught him doing this again.
I do understand that this could also be a red flag, but just want to offer another possibility if he doesn't show any other signs of abuse.


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## NewDirections

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniedb*
> 
> but you seem defensive and minimize things when you receive responses.


Above x a million. I just cannot believe that the first two times you saw your son do this you thought it was "funny".














It is very obvious that is not normal behavior for a child.

I find it really upsetting you are not taking this more seriously. Your son is acting out because he is probably being abused. Why are you not doing anything to help him besides posting online.


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## gbailey

Have you asked him why he wants the dog to lick his private area? I agree with the other posters. Your DS needs help and he needs help ASAP. I know you don't believe your partner could have done anything to hurt him and hopefully he hasn't but something is seriously wrong and your son needs help NOW. I am curious to know how your partner responded to your text. You say it's not your partner, you say it's not the new pre-school. It's SOMETHING! Something is wrong here and instead of making excuses you need to start finding some answers and sadly, as well meaning as the mom and dads are on here, I don't think anyone can help you unless you're willing to take a long, hard look at what's going on with your child and the people who are around him. The poor baby needs help.


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## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniedb*
> 
> There is a history of questionable behavior apart from sexual abuse allegations. A serious question: why do so many other women seem more concerned about your boy than you do? Maybe it's your writing style, maybe it's a lack of being f2f, but you seem defensive and minimize things when you receive responses. Would you consider thinking about that?


It's not that. I have posted threads about various issues before and each time people seem to jump straight to criminalizing my DP when they may or may not have the whole story. It's impossible I think to present a completely accurate picture, with ALL details, on a message board. Because of that I guess I'm trying to head it off this time. Each time that my DP has been accused of whatever, I have diligently followed through "just in case." Each time, it has been proven (by unbiased professionals) that while he might have had to grow into his role as father a bit, he is not abusive in any way. I mean, I want to protect my children, and of course there is no doubt that I would choose them over anyone else (hence why I cut my parents off). But how many times does he have to be raked over the coals *just* because he is the "boyfriend" and therefore he *must* be at fault for whatever is wrong with my ds. You have to excuse me if I'm not jumping up and down with excitement at the thought of blaming him once again.

Oddly enough, when I was on the phone with my friend (who has 3 kids) I told her what had happened (freaking out to her rather than ds), and she thought I was overreacting and was actually laughing. So I thought it must be me. (She is a great mom who usually has excellent judgment regarding her kids)


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## NannyMcPhee

You should take this post down and take your kid to the ER.

I was wondering why your DP would ''hit the roof''?


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## LynnS6

Two possible explanations (I'm sure there are more):

He's been sexually abused by someone other than you or your dp. Any possibility that another person did this? I know you've been cleared by CPS, but I'm wondering if something happened at your mom's? Your current living situation?

Another possibility is that he's doing it because it feels good. It happened by accident once, and he likes how it feels. That's not out of the realm of possibility.

I'm hoping that your therapist can get to the bottom of it. Until then, keep him and the dog separate. Buy him a belt or suspenders (harder to get your pants down).


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## Chamomile Girl

I don't know all of the OP's history, but I think most of the posters here are waaaaayyyyy overreacting. I'm guessing that the kid learned that it felt good for the dog to lick him when he got licked after the bath you mentioned. So as a PP postulated he is now seeking out that feeling good behavior. How is that not normal? Little kids masturbate all the time. Sheesh people.

What I would be worried about is the dog biting him there. You might want to talk to him about that possibility.


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## gbailey

Doesn't it concern you in the least bit that your partner has been accused several times? Please use all of the energy you seem to have for defending your DP to finding out what is happening with your precious baby. Your DP is an adult but a three year old is helpless to what may be occurring here. It's not funny for a child to have an animal lick his private area and to continue to do it. Frankly, I'm shocked CPS in your state was so quick to close the case. They're normally very thorough and take allegations of abuse very seriously. It seems like your DS is falling through the cracks in someway and I pray an intervention on his behalf happens right away.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> It's not that. I have posted threads about various issues before and each time people seem to jump straight to criminalizing my DP when they may or may not have the whole story. It's impossible I think to present a completely accurate picture, with ALL details, on a message board. Because of that I guess I'm trying to head it off this time. *Each time* that my DP has been accused of whatever, I have diligently followed through "just in case." Each time, it has been proven (by unbiased professionals) that while he might have had to grow into his role as father a bit, he is not abusive in any way. I mean, I want to protect my children, and of course there is no doubt that I would choose them over anyone else (hence why I cut my parents off). But how many times does he have to be raked over the coals *just* because he is the "boyfriend" and therefore he *must* be at fault for whatever is wrong with my ds. You have to excuse me if I'm not jumping up and down with excitement at the thought of blaming him once again.
> 
> Oddly enough, when I was on the phone with my friend (who has 3 kids) I told her what had happened (freaking out to her rather than ds), and she thought I was overreacting and was actually laughing. So I thought it must be me. (She is a great mom who usually has excellent judgment regarding her kids)


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## NewDirections

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> It's not that. I have posted threads about various issues before and each time people seem to jump straight to criminalizing my DP when they may or may not have the whole story. It's impossible I think to present a completely accurate picture, with ALL details, on a message board. Because of that I guess I'm trying to head it off this time. Each time that my DP has been accused of whatever, I have diligently followed through "just in case." *Each time, it has been proven (by unbiased professionals) that while he might have had to grow into his role as father a bit, he is not abusive in any way.* I mean, I want to protect my children, and of course there is no doubt that I would choose them over anyone else (hence why I cut my parents off). But how many times does he have to be raked over the coals *just* because he is the "boyfriend" and therefore he *must* be at fault for whatever is wrong with my ds. You have to excuse me if I'm not jumping up and down with excitement at the thought of blaming him once again.
> 
> Oddly enough, when I was on the phone with my friend (who has 3 kids) I told her what had happened (freaking out to her rather than ds), and she thought I was overreacting and was actually laughing. So I thought it must be me. (She is a great mom who usually has excellent judgment regarding her kids)


Is this the same partner that tried to smother your son with a pillow?


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## marinak1977

OP, on a serious note, I do think you should ask for this thread to be removed. This is just the kind of stuff that feeds internet creeps' imagination.









Also, the OP mentioned that DS is going to the therapist tomorrow. And before everyone jumps on her DP, remember that she just cut off really toxic parents that may have done something to her son, (he coslept with them, he used to wet the bed, and stopped when the OP left and cut off her toxic mother). A lot of abuse allegations came from the OP's parents and were made in the spirit of revenge.


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## waiting2bemommy

to answer some posters, by "hit the roof" I was worried that dp would take a punitive approach about it. fwiw, he was shocked but just said that we should talk to the psych before we talk to ds. he says that he was sexually aware at an early age but that he never did anything like that and it concerns him.

as far as it being funny, the other occasions we kind of shook our heads and chuckled over him in private. i didn't laugh in front of him so as t encourage it. it was more freak coincidence so it didnt strike me as worrisome, just another "ew, 3 yr old boys are gross" kind of thing.

as far as living situations go, we moved from where we were living (which was too communal for my liking, but ds was never alone there) to a new apartment. We don't know any of our neighbors well and ds doesn't go in any of their houses. We did have a sitter but that was just this past weekend and the first dog licking incident was before that.

He has not seen my parents since the CPS case was closed and that time they could not find any evidence that he had been molested by either of them.

He has been to preschool, to my one friend's house, and other than at with DP or I all the time. I honestly don't know where he could have been molested. I really, truly don't. and my gut does not tell me that this is abuse related. Ds has lots of weird behaviors that are socially unacceptable, but most of them are tolerable (or I just don't take him to those places where it will be an issue.)

He was recently diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD, sensory integration disorder, and unofficially with anxiety.


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## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Doesn't it concern you in the least bit that your partner has been accused several times? . Frankly, I'm shocked CPS in your state was so quick to close the case. They're normally very thorough and take allegations of abuse very seriously.


Well sure it would concern me if it was someone other than my nut case mother who was accusing him.

What do you think CPS should have done that they didn't do? Invent something just to make my mother feel good?

If 2 psychologists, an in home counselor (for my PPD), an entire preschool staff (at his old montessori school), numerous friends and acquaintances, a pediatrician, a developmental pediatirician, a team of 4 specialists (including a social worker) doing an evaluation, 2 CPS case workers, and a play therapist couldn't find anything wrong, should I doggedly continue to put ds and DP through numerous assessments and interviews because he is "falling through the cracks"? I wholeheartedly agree that CPS fails sometimes (many times). But you simply cannot create something where there is nothing.


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## gbailey

I pray your son is not being abused. I truly hope he's not but clearly there are problems. Whether it's sexual abuse hasn't been founded but something is occurring with your son that isn't okay. And no, CPS should not have invented something to make your mother feel good but they should have kept an open case until there is some consistency and/or resolution to your sons issues.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Well sure it would concern me if it was someone other than my nut case mother who was accusing him.
> 
> What do you think CPS should have done that they didn't do? Invent something just to make my mother feel good?
> 
> If 2 psychologists, an in home counselor (for my PPD), an entire preschool staff (at his old montessori school), numerous friends and acquaintances, a pediatrician, a developmental pediatirician, a team of 4 specialists (including a social worker) doing an evaluation, 2 CPS case workers, and a play therapist couldn't find anything wrong, should I doggedly continue to put ds and DP through numerous assessments and interviews because he is "falling through the cracks"? I wholeheartedly agree that CPS fails sometimes (many times). *But you simply cannot create something where there is nothing.*


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## waiting2bemommy

I don't know what exactly you are looking for, here. They can't keep an open case just because. The case was opened because of abuse allegations. The allegations were untrue, hence, the case was closed.

When you speak of consistency or resolution, can you spell out exactly what you would have deemed acceptable to close the case?


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## gbailey

Frankly, I'm not going to bother. Anything I say you'll have some defense to it and going back and forth on MDC is not going to help your son. What I think isn't important but what's going on with your beautiful baby is.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I don't know what exactly you are looking for, here. They can't keep an open case just because. The case was opened because of abuse allegations. The allegations were untrue, hence, the case was closed.
> 
> When you speak of consistency or resolution, can you spell out exactly what you would have deemed acceptable to close the case?


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## carlylovesthesims2

i agree this is not something to put on the net and its sick that this is happening both to the little boy and the dog!!!!


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## Ornery

If I remember correctly, you allow your 3 yr old to play outside on his own quite often, or used to regularly. Could something have happened while he was on his own? I'm not one to jump to abuse allegations but this really sounds quite concerning. And just because he has been interviewed and it has been determined that he wasn't abused doesn't mean that he couldn't have been exposed to things he shouldn't have been. I know nothing about your partner or your parents and that situation, I'm thinking of him roaming in the neighborhood and playing with older boys who might have encouraged behavior like this or exposed him to things that were completely inappropriate.

No matter where this came from, it sounds like he needs help. I've been around a ton of three yr old boys and have many friends who have them or have had them and none of them can even fathom this. I can't imagine NOT being shocked the first time it happened.

Also, please do remove this thread if possible or delete the details. With his photo in your avatar and this kind of info posted about him, I would think it would be way too easy for a predator to take advantage.


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## ssh

I agree with this. Have you told you DS that the dog could bite him? He probably hasn't thought of it.

Also you should really delete details since some creep could come across it through google.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> I don't know all of the OP's history, but I think most of the posters here are waaaaayyyyy overreacting. I'm guessing that the kid learned that it felt good for the dog to lick him when he got licked after the bath you mentioned. So as a PP postulated he is now seeking out that feeling good behavior. How is that not normal? Little kids masturbate all the time. Sheesh people.
> 
> What I would be worried about is the dog biting him there. You might want to talk to him about that possibility.


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## DariusMom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> It's not that. I have posted threads about various issues before and each time people seem to jump straight to criminalizing my DP when they may or may not have the whole story.


Sure, but when you've posted desperate messages about him terrifying your then two year old son, trying to smother him, etc., etc. it can be a bit hard not to "criminalize" him!


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## Magali

I saw this last night before I wet to bed. I have been thinking about it ever since. My first reaction to seeing this behaviour in my 3 year old would be worry. I would look long and hard at who my son had been around in the last 6 months and be very concerned that some abuse had happened. Then I would also look at the other side and think...ok, well maybe he discovered this on his own. But I can't imagine I would think it is funny AT ALL. I would absolutely keep the dog separated from my son. If your son can't keep the dog away from his private areas YOU need to step in and keep them apart!!! Not only is it disgusting, but it is very dangerous cause the dog could bite your son's penis. You owe it to your son to make sure that this doesn't happen again. It's not some funny story you tell his future girlfriends/boyfriends! If my mom told me I did that I would be sickened. I am glad that you are seeing a therapist soon, I hope he/she doesn't pass this off as nothing.

I also understand how you do not want to shame your son. But this isn't harmless, normal,age appropriate exploration.


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## Magali

I just want to add...even though someone has been cleared for abuse by CPS, it doesn't mean that there has been no abuse. Bottom line is that you need to protect your son.


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## waiting2bemommy

In a rush now because I have to get ds ready for school, but I will come back later to edit my original post as many of you have wisely suggested.

Also, DP did not smother my ds at any point in time. I would appreciate it if people could stick to the facts.

thirdly, please remember I have a toddler dd who sleeps in the bed with her dad and I every night. If there was one iota of doubt in my mind about him this would not be taking place. I myself was sexually abused as a child, and raped as an adult and I still struggle with the effects daily, so this is not something that I take lightly AT ALL. Please believe me when I say that if this were within the realm of possibility I would happily put him out on the street butt a$$ naked before letting my child be touched inappropriately. I do NOT find abuse funny or trivial and I do NOT think the dog situation is ha ha lol funny. If I did, I wouldn't have posted about it! My initial reaction to the bath time incident and my feelings now are very different.

Let me just add that if I were to find out that someone had molested my ds, there would not be enough time for the police to get to that person before I seriously hurt or killed them. If someone messes with my family it is WAR. Look at what happened when my mom called CPS on me.....cut her off immediately, no more seeing her grandchildren, no talking to them on the phone, she does not even know where we live. I don't even let her *friends* see my kids in case they might pass information back to her. Not only that, but I let people she is close with know what she did, and that she is vindictive and not to be trusted. I DO NOT PLAY when it comes to my kids. After what happened to me as a child I would murder someone who did it to my kid.


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## junipermoon

Well, so many evaluations trying to suss out if there was abuse is itself enough to cause a small child quite a bit of confusion. Not saying you shouldn't keep him in therapy--I think you should definitely continue with it--I was just pointing out that all of the worry and investigations over his symptoms, compounded with the normal developmental curiousities and explorations around genitals and so on, is bound to kindle up a lot of confusion.

And that is assuming nothing actually happened to him in the first place--but obviously, as you know, something might have happened and these behaviors might be reactive in that regard, and that could certainly be playing a role too.

As an adoptive parent of a later-aged child with sexually reactive behaviors and I will say that many years of both play therapy and specialized therapy for junior offenders never uncovered a narrative about what actually happened. Nor was that the goal per se. Rather, you want to work with the child to process his current feelings and urges--as they are currently presenting--and work with him to help him to develop normal boundaries and normal behaviors around this stuff. So assuming you are SURE he is not currently being abused and was not sexually abused by your partner, I think this is where you go from here. It takes a long time so be patient and don't expect a quick fix.

My advice:

1. I do think you need to re-home your dog immediately. Unquestionably, hon. It is very sad but not the end of the world and if the dog becomes sexualized it will need to be put down--also I think it is the best short term solution to your situation because it will prevent your son from either repeating the behavior or from thinking about wanting to repeat the behavior. After the third incident, and in light of all the other issues surrounding the situation, this one seems non negotiable to me. Put an ad up and pay a friend to foster the dog temporarily until you find a forever home for your friend.

2. Line of sight supervision in your home--by you or your sitter--at all times. No more "go in your room/outside and play." Because you are setting up a situation where he will stew in his own juices/be left to the wolves to sort out or act out the drama/trauma on his own. This would be a recipe for entrenching these behaviors. You do not want these behaviors to escalate or to be going down outside of your radar. DO NOT let him play outside alone, in his room alone, etc. Use time ins instead of time outs. Plan preschool age activities at the home to keep him busy so when he wants to go off away from you you have something up your sleeve to keep him near you and engaged. Plan on doing this for at least a year--modeling the behaviors you want him to pick up on and preventing the ones that are not ok, and it WILL help to rewire his brain. I promise you. It can only help.

3. Get support for you. This won't be resolved in a hurry, as you know, and you are going to need support as a mother to keep up with the line of sight supervision, therapies he is in, etc. Doing line of sight vigilantly is hard--I have been there--and it can wear you out. Keep posting, try to reach out to IRL friends, invite people over (yay on your new house!), etc.

4. Switch therapists if you don't have a good feeling about the one your son is with. Interview as many as necessary--many are not very good and you need a good one, who is working with kids because they have something real to offer and NOT because they are trying to work out their own childhood issues through working with kids or because they can't hack it with adult clients. You need a great therapist who is wise, compassionate, culturally competent, and willing to both be supportive and confrontative with you as needed. If the therapist doesn't want you in at least some of the sessions, run. Your child is young and you need to be in on his treatment. And it needs to be skillful. Period.

5. Have faith. You care so much about your kids. Keep up with the therapies, start doing line of sight with him, and snuggle in for the long haul. He is so young, you still have EVERY opportunity to give him the equipment to have a beautiful, balanced, healthy life.

Hugs and support to you mama. You can do this! You can do this.


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## junipermoon

One more thing I was thinking about: as pps were pointing out, I think that online forums can be great places to seek support BUT it might wise to choose to be anonymous and change some details in order to protect your identity (and your kids) if you are going to post about the nitty gritty of your life. Pics of you and your kids links the info you are sharing directly to you and your kids...if you look for an asd forum or another forum of some type and keep identifying details out of your posts there, I think it is ok to get personal. Conversely, you probably should edit this thread as you mention you are going to do, because in this forum, you are not anonymous or even quasi anonymous...does that make sense?

more hugs, if ok, mama.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom

I'm in the "huh? WHY is this such a big deal?" camp. Masturbation is a completely normal thing for a 3 YO. It feels good. Its not deviant in any way. Its so easy to imagine that the dog licked him once and it felt good. So he continued it. He is too young to be aware of the social taboo involved. If he were rubbing himself against the couch, would everyone react the same? I don't think so.

From other posters I understand there might be more history here than I realize, but based only on what is on this thread this just seems way too quick a jump to the worst possible scenarios.

Still, just because its developmentally appropriate doesn't mean its OK to allow to continue. In your shoes I would ensure that dog/child encounters are supervised (for everyone's safety. As someone mentioned, even without this preschooler-pet interactions should be supervised at all times.) I would continue to emphasis to your child that his "private parts" (or whatever word you use) are just that and no one should touch them -- including the dog. If he masterbates on his own, I would tell him that its private, in-your-bedroom behavior. And honestly, I'd leave it at that, just as I would for any other young child and body exploration.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

update: We went to the psychologist today. He didn't think it was something to be overly concerned about. He does not believe that it was due to any abuse, and he knows the full story on ds and our past history. His theory on it was that ds discovered by a fluke that it felt good and so he began seeking out that behavior. Because ds has a sensory integration problem, and is a big time sensory seeker, this could contribute to it as well. (according to him). It would be next to impossible to keep ds and the dog in my direct line of sight all the time, but we had a serious discussion with ds about this behavior, including the possibility of the dog biting him. He doesn't want the dog to bite him, so I think that sunk in.

I truly do not believe that this is linked to abuse. Given the fact that my son does a lot of other socially inappropriate sensory seeking things (licking people, for example) I think the psychologist is on the right track. We have another appointment in 2 weeks and it will be dealt with then (or sooner if need be) if this becomes an issue again.

Also, just to clarify, we were in the same room when this happened, all three times. Our living room and dining room are one big room separated only by a couch. It's not a secretive thing for ds, and he didn't seem to feel guilty or ashamed abut it, which further indicates to me that it's not a sexual thing in the way that many people here are making it out to be.


----------



## nashvillemidwife

Did you tell the psychologist about last March when he undressed a Barbie doll at the store, pulled his pants down, spread the Barbie's legs apart and put it on his penis? Did they think was normal behavior also?


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Yes, as I have already said, they are aware of ds' entire history. everything that has gone on in our family is documented, so that even if we were to change providers in the future, we don't have to start from square 1.

The Barbie thing really unnerved me and that was the reason I started taking him to play therapy. There were some other issues that we worked on as a family but there was no other evidence of abuse.

I will always wonder if something happened to him at my parents' house, perhaps while he was sleeping. That is when I was molested, and I wasn't aware of it until I was much older as strange as that may sound. But if we can't get it out of him in therapy I don't know any other way to find out.


----------



## marinak1977

The Barbie thing does sound really unnerving.







Not the dog thing though. OP, sending you a







and hope you can get your DS all the services/help he needs.


----------



## daniedb

I would find a new therapist immediately.


----------



## kawa kamuri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daniedb*
> 
> I would find a new therapist immediately.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused? Of course there is still the possibility that he saw something inappropriate on TV and was acting that out (with the barbie thing). We have been to two psychologists plus a third team of people who did a forensic interview with ds when my mother called CPS on us. None of the usual methods....doll house, puppets/dolls, role playing, drawing, talking, etc have turned up anything other than a general anxiety. The anxiety is easing up a *little* now that we have a diagnosis and are adjusting our expectations of ds accordingly.

The other thing is that ds is quite the tattle teller. He will greet me when I come home from work by saying "daddy made me eat too much food, daddy didn't use the timer like he's supposed to (we use a timer for a lot of things to help him keep focus), daddy was playing rough and we're supposed to play gentle," etc. Likewise if I yell at him (my worst trait) he will tell my DP as soon as he can "Mommy was yelling and going craaaaazy Daddy!" If he has any scratch or minor injury (real or imagined) he will tattle on whoever did it (even if it was an accident). I just can't imagine that he wouldn't have said *something* to at least give me a hint of what could be going on in his head.

If anyone has any actual experience with this I would be very interested to hear how you drew your child out. I'm not ignoring the possibility that something has happened, but at this point I can push and push or I can just deal with the behaviors as they arise. I am not willing to keep putting ds through therapist after therapist until I hear what I think I should hear. All of the people he has seen came highly recommended and the forensic eval was through the children's hospital, who handles ALL the CPS cases. I'm sure they know what they are doing.

The Barbie thing totally freaked me out. I think I posted when it happened. Oh man, *I* had nightmares and flashbacks because of worrying about and hyperfocusing on it. But no one can give me a reason. Maybe there truly isn't one, maybe we will never know.


----------



## liliaceae

OP, I think you should seriously consider removing your family's picture and identifying info from your profile here. I just googled your children's first names and your town, and this thread was the second result that came up.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *liliaceae*
> 
> OP, I think you should seriously consider removing your family's picture and identifying info from your profile here. I just googled your children's first names and your town, and this thread was the second result that came up.


That is really scary. Thank you for letting me know. I checked and we're not google-able (is that a word?) anymore. Thank you!


----------



## sahli29

I would get rid of the dog and take my child to others for evaluation. Therapists make mistakes.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> *someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused?* Of course there is still the possibility that he saw something inappropriate on TV and was acting that out (with the barbie thing). We have been to two psychologists plus a third team of people who did a forensic interview with ds when my mother called CPS on us. None of the usual methods....doll house, puppets/dolls, role playing, drawing, talking, etc have turned up anything other than a general anxiety. The anxiety is easing up a *little* now that we have a diagnosis and are adjusting our expectations of ds accordingly.
> 
> The other thing is that ds is quite the tattle teller. He will greet me when I come home from work by saying "daddy made me eat too much food, daddy didn't use the timer like he's supposed to (we use a timer for a lot of things to help him keep focus), daddy was playing rough and we're supposed to play gentle," etc. Likewise if I yell at him (my worst trait) he will tell my DP as soon as he can "Mommy was yelling and going craaaaazy Daddy!" If he has any scratch or minor injury (real or imagined) he will tattle on whoever did it (even if it was an accident). I just can't imagine that he wouldn't have said *something* to at least give me a hint of what could be going on in his head.
> 
> If anyone has any actual experience with this I would be very interested to hear how you drew your child out. I'm not ignoring the possibility that something has happened, but at this point I can push and push or I can just deal with the behaviors as they arise. I am not willing to keep putting ds through therapist after therapist until I hear what I think I should hear. All of the people he has seen came highly recommended and the forensic eval was through the children's hospital, who handles ALL the CPS cases. I'm sure they know what they are doing.
> 
> The Barbie thing totally freaked me out. I think I posted when it happened. Oh man, *I* had nightmares and flashbacks because of worrying about and hyperfocusing on it. But no one can give me a reason. Maybe there truly isn't one, maybe we will never know.


OP I wanted to address the idea of hypnosis "drawing" out memories.

I have done a lot of research into the subject due to my own hazy memories of my abuse.

From what I have read hypnosis is not a reliable or very good way to try and help remember what really took place. Just because it comes out in hypnosis in no way means it was actually real. I know that sounds scary but the findings are that often the "memories" are not really memories at all, just things you think happened. I am not saying your abuse didn't occur, I know mine did, I am just fuzzy on the details, and the important thing is to ask yourself WHY you want to know the details. As an adult what good is it going to you to know exactly what happened to you. These are questions that need to be addressed before attempting hypnosis.

In regard to your son, I can see where it would be important to know exactly what happened to your son..

I guess I am in the minority that IF BIG IF, the dog penis licking thing were an isolated incident I would actually laugh at it...I mean it's gross but if it was just one thing I wouldn't be phased. From everything else that has happened to your son though I can't say it is ok even a little bit...

I actually went through all your threads just browsing and I see a repeated pattern of you thinking other people are abusing other children. There are multiple threads where you ask if you should possibly call CPS or if it seems like there is something really wrong. You seem to be able to see a lot of issues with other adults and kids but you are blind to the fact that your son is acting out in such bizarre ways that there is a really good chance he was abused.

Just because the group of psychologists you worked with didn't find anything doesn't mean it is not there. I feel like it is easy for you to see possible abuse (based on your past posts) whereever you happen to be living but with your own child it just couldn't be true. You admit that perhaps something happened at your parent's (why was he even with them if they abused you!?) and you refuse to consider your DP could EVER do something like that. Well unfortunately I have heard many MANY stories of mamas who just couldn't ever possibly imagine someone that close to them doing something like that and then maybe months, or years later the truth comes out. I am not saying your DP did anything but YOU can never know for sure, so please don't be angry when people make suggestions to that effect.

I wish the best of luck, trouble seems to follow you like a bad habit, I hope you can find your son some help and I would scrap the therapists you have and start all over with a new one. Or multiple new ones. I would not rest until I had some answers if it was my kid.


----------



## ~Charlie's~Angel~

Your son is SOOO LITTLE. I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids. And you dont know where he could possibly be abused? Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down? That is still a form of sexual molestation. Even if he was never touched.

Stop letting him out by himself. HES 3! I have my own yard and my kids dont go outside where I cant see them. And my son is older then yours. I know you said you guys moved, and im guessing that when you were letting him out it was when you were in that communal living situation, (Where, i might add, you thought a little girl was being sexually molested, or at best, inappropriatly handled by a neighbor.)

I have noticed a pattern in your posts as well, and trust me, I have read alot of them. You seem to backpeddle alot when your common sense is ever questioned. And I KNOW you posted about your partner in the past about issues you were having with him and your son. If I took those posts out of context, then maybe its time to stop posting about every last little thing that is happening with the four of you. Sometimes discretion is best.

I dont mean to sound harsh, but I am seriously genuinly concerned about your son. Not that I think you would LET anything happen to him, but because sometimes we are so intuned and smart about what we know to be "true", we cant see the forest through the trees.


----------



## D_McG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~*
> 
> Your son is SOOO LITTLE. I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids. And you dont know where he could possibly be abused? Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down? That is still a form of sexual molestation.


I also have a hard time comprehending this. He wasn't even 3 when you let him go off playing with kids as old as 11? With no adult supervision? I find this so shocking. What things your little boy could have seen and heard. It breaks my heart.


----------



## crunchy_mommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> someone suggested hypnosis for me as a way to "unlock" my memories of abuse, but I'm not comfortable with that, is there anything similar that might be effective in drawing out my ds if in fact he has been abused?


Hypnosis can be really dangerous for that purpose -- not just because of the possibility of 'false memories' like a pp mentioned, but also because if abuse did occur, and he's repressing it, he's repressing it for a reason, and he's not able to deal with it yet. Forcing things to the surface, moving too quickly, could have serious effects on him. I am struggling with a very similar thing myself (not my DS) and it's so frustrating not knowing but at the same time I am trying to respect my body's natural defense mechanisms and the way they are trying to protect me.

I do see (at least from previous posts) multiple instances where your DS was in very very vulnerable environments & could have been abused. That is a positively terrifying thought and I'm sure it's sooo hard to even think about (and even harder when you're an abuse survivor yourself) but denial isn't going to get you anywhere either. Frankly, I'm shocked that SO many professionals have said conclusively that he's not being abused, because there are so many red flags in your posts that it seems very likely. Take any one thing and we could explain it away, but if you take EVERYTHING in context (and granted, I know we don't necessarily have the whole picture, but still) and I would strongly suspect something happened/is happening to him. I would get another opinion and make sure to include every last detail (print out some of your old posts, perhaps)... And yes, keep your DS in eyesight at all times no matter how hard it is, especially if he's around older kids or adults, because until you can figure out if anything did happen, anyone he spends time with could be a suspect. I know that sounds paranoid but there is a time & a place to be over-cautious & IMO, this is it.


----------



## kawa kamuri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~*
> 
> Your son is SOOO LITTLE. I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids. And you dont know where he could possibly be abused? Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down? That is still a form of sexual molestation.
> 
> 
> 
> I also have a hard time comprehending this. He wasn't even 3 when you let him go off playing with kids as old as 11? With no adult supervision? I find this so shocking. What things your little boy could have seen and heard. It breaks my heart.
Click to expand...

Sadly, this was the norm in my old, poverty ridden neighborhood.


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## waiting2bemommy

well, our neighborhood was definitely low income, but I wouldn't call it poverty stricken. And that was the norm for around there. I guess I felt comfortable with it because unless they were at the park (which is right catacorner behind the house, but not completely in direct eyesight due to trees and fences) they were mostly in our yard or the next door neighbor's (adjoining) yard. The only house ds was allowed inside was our good friends and next door neighbor. It's not like ds was just roaming around on random blocks. I always knew where he was and who he was with.

Of course I know there are people who think you should have your kid in direct eyesight at all times;they should never play outside by themselves, close their bedroom doors or take out the trash without someone watching. My mom is that type (she even homeschooled me) and I still got molested. I don't really see how all her protectiveness did me any good. And I was miserable locked up in the house while all the other kids played outside. I used to sit in my window and make up stories about them and their lives and write them down in my notebooks, because I was so bored. I'm on a tangent now, but anyway my point is that I just don't subscribe to that theory. I find it entirely useless, and I wasted the first 18 years of my life terrified of the world; I refuse to waste any more of my time or my kids' time thinking that everything outside my four walls is suspect.

However, having said all that, I have to admit that there is one little girl whose house he went into twice, both times VERY briefly because I was watching him (like I said I dont just let him wander wherever) and promptly grabbed him and hauled him back home for the day. The little girl has had two younger siblings removed by CPS.....no one in the neighborhood was allowed in her house and none of the kids other than ds liked to play with her.

I find it hard to believe that anything could have happened in the time that it took me to get from my porch to hers, but they did go in and shut the door. I suppose anything is possible. This was after the Barbie incident. I don't know what to make of it.

I do hear all of you and what you are saying and I'm not intending to bury my head in the sand. I am honestly at a loss as to what else I can do. I mean, what would be YOUR limit for taking your child to numerous therapists and having the same questions asked over and over? Can he receive therapy for abuse even if he doesn't say he was molested? What else can I do? His diagnostic classroom has sent home behavior questionnaires and they date back 1 year, so I included the barbie incident. No one has said anything other than "kids experiment." They seem to take the word of the evaluators who did his forensic interview.....apparently they can get something out of almost anybody.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife*
> 
> Did you tell the psychologist about last March when he undressed a Barbie doll at the store, pulled his pants down, spread the Barbie's legs apart and put it on his penis? Did they think was normal behavior also?


I didn't catch where the OP's psychologist said this was normal behaviour. Where was that?

OP's ds has numerous issues. That's already been clearly stated. The fact that those issues are sometimes manifesting in a sexual way does not have to mean there is or was sexual abuse happening. DS2 also has issues (so far undiagnosed - most people say SPD, autism spectrum or some combo of both, and I've definitely wondered about aspergers). At age three, he was always naked, thought it was hilarious to take his clothes off in situations where he'd been told not to, and loved playing with his penis, even with other people around. When I first read the OP, my very first thought was "oh - thank goodness we don't have a dog!".

OP's son has had numerous upheavals as she's tried to straighten out her life (and I reiterate, OP, that I think cutting out your parents was the best thing you could have done!). He's lived in a lot of different places, in a lot of different circumstances, in a very short time. He was, if I recall, present when his father hit OP, when he was very, very little.

This boy has special needs. He's had a lot of ups and downs in his very short life. Is there a particular reason why so many posters are so fixated on the idea that he must have been sexually abused? Not every single problem that manifests sexually is about sexual abuse. The dog thing could very well be about it feeling good. The Barbie thing? It could be any number of things. Kids don't process this stuff the same way we do. I remember hearing a very young child (years ago - can't even remember for sure if it was ds1, or a friend's son) comment that if he had a baby, it would have to suck on his penis. Adults around were horrified, and he explained his thinking - men don't have boobs, so the penis must be the way a man is meant to feed his baby. It never even crossed this kid's mind that men aren't meant to feed a baby at all, because that made no sense to him. People explained everything to him...but I can just imagine how that comment about a baby would have sounded if overheard by a stranger at the mall, yk?


----------



## bluebackpacks

I understand that your son has a possible autism diagnosis. Would it be helpful to have a forensic psychologist with experience interviewing ASD children interview him? If your son does have autism, then he most likely has no intuitive sense of social boundaries. If he doesn't understand social boundaries, then he won't be able to tell you when they have been breached. Taking this one step further, your son might not be able to confirm abuse unless the description of such abuse matches his exact experience. The problem is two-fold. First, he must understand that several actions go together and constitute abuse. Second, he must use language to construct a cohesive verbal account of his personal experience. These are enormous challenges for a child on the spectrum. Additionally, abusers often exploit the obsessive/perseverative tendencies of ASD children.

These are just some thoughts I wanted to share. If they don't apply to your situation, please disregard.


----------



## Lisa1970

Not leaving a 3 yr old outside by himself to play with such older kids would not be over protective. You feel your mother was over protective, but you have gone the complete opposite direction. I agree with getting a 2nd opinion. In fact, since his diagnosis is so vague, I get the impression he has not had a real workup. Try a neuropsych. They diagnose things like autism spectrum disorders so it is a great place to start. Good luck!


----------



## pianojazzgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> Not leaving a 3 yr old outside by himself to play with such older kids would not be over protective. You feel your mother was over protective, but you have gone the complete opposite direction.


I agree with this.


----------



## D_McG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> Not leaving a 3 yr old outside by himself to play with such older kids would not be over protective. You feel your mother was over protective, but you have gone the complete opposite direction


ITA w/this. IIRC the child wasn't even 3 at the time. I mean that is just crazy. I have a child that age now and I will leave her for short periods with my DS (who is 4). Within ear shot at all times. Just for safety, not that I suspect he'd do anything intentionally to hurt her.

But the idea of my DD out of my house, out of my sight, with a group of neighborhood kids? It's unfathomable to me. In light of everything that has gone on and is going on with your son developmentally I really suggest you revisit your perspective before CPS makes the decision for you.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

> I really suggest you revisit your perspective before CPS makes the decision for you.


thanks, but I've already had CPS called on me and they found nothing amiss. They also flagged our family so that any future calls would be known to be malicious. And the person who called? (my mother) Will not be seeing her grandchildren, whom she "loooooves" so much, anymore. When she called CPS and started running off at the mouth to them, she talked herself right out of 2 beautiful grandchildren. I told her the other day to go adopt some other grandkids because these ones will never step foot in her house again. I haven't even gotten so much as an apology. I also let people close to her know, A) to explain why I won't be seeing them either, since I'm not taking any chances and B) to forewarn them that she might do it to them. everyone knows now what she did and apparently she has gotten some flack for it and lost some friends. Good. If she persists in harassing me, since the police don't seem to care, my next step will be to forward the case information to my father's employer, who is a private contractor providing services for Social Services and the Health Dept, and file new charges against both my parents in court. If they keep messing with me and my kids, I *will* bring them down.

It made me so angry that I wanted to physically hurt her. I didn't, only and I do mean ONLY because she was my mother. anyone else would not have been so lucky.

I DO. NOT. PLAY. with people who mess with me and my kids. Anyone who dares try should know now that a call to CPS is tantamount to declaring war on me and I will stop at nothing, and I do mean nothing, to keep my kids. I don't call CPS on people unless I KNOW that something is wrong. And even then I agonize about it and try everything else in my power first. I have given people money, food, clothes even when I had very very little if I thought it would help that mama be less stressed so she could think straighter and be a better mama.

There would be major major fallout for anyone who called CPS on me. I have had it called on me "anonymously" before and it was not very difficult to find out who it was. I won't say how because I *shouldn't* have found out, but I did get a name and address with very little effort. (Turned out it was my mother that time too, but using her friend as a go between) I don't think anyone would dare, at this point.


----------



## DariusMom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ldavis24*
> 
> IF BIG IF, the dog penis licking thing were an isolated incident I would actually laugh at it...I mean it's gross but if it was just one thing I wouldn't be phased. From everything else that has happened to your son though I can't say it is ok even a little bit...
> 
> I actually went through all your threads just browsing and I see a repeated pattern of you thinking other people are abusing other children. There are multiple threads where you ask if you should possibly call CPS or if it seems like there is something really wrong. You seem to be able to see a lot of issues with other adults and kids but you are blind to the fact that your son is acting out in such bizarre ways that there is a really good chance he was abused.
> 
> Just because the group of psychologists you worked with didn't find anything doesn't mean it is not there. I feel like it is easy for you to see possible abuse (based on your past posts) whereever you happen to be living but with your own child it just couldn't be true. You admit that perhaps something happened at your parent's (why was he even with them if they abused you!?) and you refuse to consider your DP could EVER do something like that. Well unfortunately I have heard many MANY stories of mamas who just couldn't ever possibly imagine someone that close to them doing something like that and then maybe months, or years later the truth comes out. I am not saying your DP did anything but YOU can never know for sure, so please don't be angry when people make suggestions to that effect.
> 
> I wish the best of luck, trouble seems to follow you like a bad habit, I hope you can find your son some help and I would scrap the therapists you have and start all over with a new one. Or multiple new ones. I would not rest until I had some answers if it was my kid.


All this. If it were *just* the dog and penis thing . . . yuck . .. but kinda of funny and not a big deal. Within the wider context of all your posts on MDC . . . alarming. You are *so* attuned, as Ldavis has said, to (possible) abuse around you, but you seem unwilling or unable to consider it in your own family.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~Charlie's~Angel~*
> 
> Your son is SOOO LITTLE. I was shocked when I read one of your posts about him playing outside with other older kids. And you dont know where he could possibly be abused? Maybe the older kids were behaving in ways they shouldnt and he watched it all go down? That is still a form of sexual molestation. Even if he was never touched.
> 
> Stop letting him out by himself. HES 3! I have my own yard and my kids dont go outside where I cant see them. And my son is older then yours. I know you said you guys moved, and im guessing that when you were letting him out it was when you were in that communal living situation, (Where, i might add, you thought a little girl was being sexually molested, or at best, inappropriatly handled by a neighbor.)
> 
> I have noticed a pattern in your posts as well, and trust me, I have read alot of them. You seem to backpeddle alot when your common sense is ever questioned. And I KNOW you posted about your partner in the past about issues you were having with him and your son. If I took those posts out of context, then maybe its time to stop posting about every last little thing that is happening with the four of you. Sometimes discretion is best.
> 
> I dont mean to sound harsh, but I am seriously genuinly concerned about your son. Not that I think you would LET anything happen to him, but because sometimes we are so intuned and smart about what we know to be "true", we cant see the forest through the trees.


All this too. My DS has been pretty free range (we live in Europe in a great neighborhood with lots of kids and very little car traffic) but wasn't ready to be out of my sight til he was around four, and that's still on the young side, imo. You've lived in pretty sketchy places and, I don't think you've made great choices re: supervision of your son. That's in the past now, but I don't get how you don't think abuse could have occurred.

Also, you *have* posted in the past about how your partner was mistreating your DS. Maybe not sexual abuse, but behaving in an abusive way, nonetheless. You have lived a very unstable life, with lots and lots of moves and you were even, if I recall correctly, in jail for a while. So, from what you've posted, I see all sorts of opportunities for various kinds of abuse to have occurred.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I didn't catch where the OP's psychologist said this was normal behaviour. Where was that?
> 
> OP's ds has numerous issues. That's already been clearly stated. The fact that those issues are sometimes manifesting in a sexual way does not have to mean there is or was sexual abuse happening. DS2 also has issues (so far undiagnosed - most people say SPD, autism spectrum or some combo of both, and I've definitely wondered about aspergers). At age three, he was always naked, thought it was hilarious to take his clothes off in situations where he'd been told not to, and loved playing with his penis, even with other people around. When I first read the OP, my very first thought was "oh - thank goodness we don't have a dog!".
> 
> OP's son has had numerous upheavals as she's tried to straighten out her life (and I reiterate, OP, that I think cutting out your parents was the best thing you could have done!). He's lived in a lot of different places, in a lot of different circumstances, in a very short time. He was, if I recall, present when his father hit OP, when he was very, very little.
> 
> This boy has special needs. He's had a lot of ups and downs in his very short life. Is there a particular reason why so many posters are so fixated on the idea that he must have been sexually abused? Not every single problem that manifests sexually is about sexual abuse. The dog thing could very well be about it feeling good. The Barbie thing? It could be any number of things. Kids don't process this stuff the same way we do. I remember hearing a very young child (years ago - can't even remember for sure if it was ds1, or a friend's son) comment that if he had a baby, it would have to suck on his penis. Adults around were horrified, and he explained his thinking - men don't have boobs, so the penis must be the way a man is meant to feed his baby. It never even crossed this kid's mind that men aren't meant to feed a baby at all, because that made no sense to him. People explained everything to him...but I can just imagine how that comment about a baby would have sounded if overheard by a stranger at the mall, yk?


I do agree with this. We're all jumping on the sexual abuse bandwagon, but SB makes a good point. Not only are there various special needs in play, but, as I said above, there has been a *very* unstable living situation for this poor little boy throughout his young life -- multiple moves, step father who threatens him, mom in jail, sudden lack of contact with grandparents (not saying that wasn't justified, but still . . . ) -- so I can imagine that his behaviors could be much different than a kid who hasn't gone through so much.

OP, I hope you can provide safety and stability to your kids.


----------



## D_McG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> thanks, but I've already had CPS called on me and they found nothing amiss. They also flagged our family so that any future calls would be known to be malicious. And the person who called? (my mother) Will not be seeing her grandchildren, whom she "loooooves" so much, anymore. When she called CPS and started running off at the mouth to them, she talked herself right out of 2 beautiful grandchildren. I told her the other day to go adopt some other grandkids because these ones will never step foot in her house again. I haven't even gotten so much as an apology. I also let people close to her know, A) to explain why I won't be seeing them either, since I'm not taking any chances and B) to forewarn them that she might do it to them. everyone knows now what she did and apparently she has gotten some flack for it and lost some friends. Good. If she persists in harassing me, since the police don't seem to care, my next step will be to forward the case information to my father's employer, who is a private contractor providing services for Social Services and the Health Dept, and file new charges against both my parents in court. If they keep messing with me and my kids, I *will* bring them down.
> 
> It made me so angry that I wanted to physically hurt her. I didn't, only and I do mean ONLY because she was my mother. anyone else would not have been so lucky.
> 
> I DO. NOT. PLAY. with people who mess with me and my kids. Anyone who dares try should know now that a call to CPS is tantamount to declaring war on me and I will stop at nothing, and I do mean nothing, to keep my kids. I don't call CPS on people unless I KNOW that something is wrong. And even then I agonize about it and try everything else in my power first. I have given people money, food, clothes even when I had very very little if I thought it would help that mama be less stressed so she could think straighter and be a better mama.
> 
> There would be major major fallout for anyone who called CPS on me. I have had it called on me "anonymously" before and it was not very difficult to find out who it was. I won't say how because I *shouldn't* have found out, but I did get a name and address with very little effort. (Turned out it was my mother that time too, but using her friend as a go between) I don't think anyone would dare, at this point.


Leaving a not even 3 year old unsupervised out of the house with a group of older children is completely irresponsible and dangerous. I don't really care how angry or vengeful a CPS call would make you. All I care about is that your son is safe.


----------



## ~Charlie's~Angel~

Seriously. Your totally missing the point some of us are trying to make. Just because he didnt go inside anyones house does not mean he couldnt have been witness to inappropriate behavior while outside and not under your supervision. Just because your mother kept you cooped up til you were 18 (which wasnt all that long ago, was it?) doeant mean letting your 2 year go out and play with much older children is somehow making up for her overpotectedness. You are essentially trusting just anyone to make the same decisions about his health and well being that you would. Not smart, imo. and certainly not smart when we are talking about other children who are much older then him. Hes still just a baby, even at 3 and 4 years old, and has no idea what is inappropriate and what is ok, or how to defend himself against older kids. He is going to go along with anything they say because he probably thinks they are the cats arse.

And thats great you feel so strongly about anyone who messes with your kids, but why would you serve him up on a silver platter in the first place? Nip it in the bud before its even a possibility.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *D_McG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> thanks, but I've already had CPS called on me and they found nothing amiss. They also flagged our family so that any future calls would be known to be malicious. And the person who called? (my mother) Will not be seeing her grandchildren, whom she "loooooves" so much, anymore. When she called CPS and started running off at the mouth to them, she talked herself right out of 2 beautiful grandchildren. I told her the other day to go adopt some other grandkids because these ones will never step foot in her house again. I haven't even gotten so much as an apology. I also let people close to her know, A) to explain why I won't be seeing them either, since I'm not taking any chances and B) to forewarn them that she might do it to them. everyone knows now what she did and apparently she has gotten some flack for it and lost some friends. Good. If she persists in harassing me, since the police don't seem to care, my next step will be to forward the case information to my father's employer, who is a private contractor providing services for Social Services and the Health Dept, and file new charges against both my parents in court. If they keep messing with me and my kids, I *will* bring them down.
> 
> It made me so angry that I wanted to physically hurt her. I didn't, only and I do mean ONLY because she was my mother. anyone else would not have been so lucky.
> 
> I DO. NOT. PLAY. with people who mess with me and my kids. Anyone who dares try should know now that a call to CPS is tantamount to declaring war on me and I will stop at nothing, and I do mean nothing, to keep my kids. I don't call CPS on people unless I KNOW that something is wrong. And even then I agonize about it and try everything else in my power first. I have given people money, food, clothes even when I had very very little if I thought it would help that mama be less stressed so she could think straighter and be a better mama.
> 
> There would be major major fallout for anyone who called CPS on me. I have had it called on me "anonymously" before and it was not very difficult to find out who it was. I won't say how because I *shouldn't* have found out, but I did get a name and address with very little effort. (Turned out it was my mother that time too, but using her friend as a go between) I don't think anyone would dare, at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving a not even 3 year old unsupervised out of the house with a group of older children is completely irresponsible and dangerous. I don't really care how angry or vengeful a CPS call would make you. All I care about is that your son is safe.
Click to expand...


----------



## mtiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> thanks, but I've already had CPS called on me and they found nothing amiss. They also flagged our family so that any future calls would be known to be malicious. And the person who called? (my mother) Will not be seeing her grandchildren, whom she "loooooves" so much, anymore.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I DO. NOT. PLAY. with people who mess with me and my kids. Anyone who dares try should know now that a call to CPS is tantamount to declaring war on me and I will stop at nothing, and I do mean nothing, to keep my kids. I don't call CPS on people unless I KNOW that something is wrong. And even then I agonize about it and try everything else in my power first. I have given people money, food, clothes even when I had very very little if I thought it would help that mama be less stressed so she could think straighter and be a better mama.
> 
> There would be major major fallout for anyone who called CPS on me. I have had it called on me "anonymously" before and it was not very difficult to find out who it was. I won't say how because I *shouldn't* have found out, but I did get a name and address with very little effort. (Turned out it was my mother that time too, but using her friend as a go between) I don't think anyone would dare, at this point.


And next time it may NOT be your mother calling CPS. (BTW - THAT is who the flag is about - not ANY call to CPS.) It may be your neighbor, concerned for a very small child being allowed out to play with much older children unsupervised.

I can tell you that I was pretty lax when it came to what ages I'd let my kids do stuff, but <3, outside, unsupervised by someone other than a bunch of 11yo's? No way in flippin' heck. And if I saw a neighborhood kid whose parent was allowing that repeatedly? *I* would call CPS - your anger be danged. It simply is not safe or responsible. Sorry.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Well, I'm sorry, I guess we just disagree on this. Maybe if you all saw it you would see why it was a non issue. He was allowed in two adjoining yards and their bordering driveways, all clearly visible from my front and side kitchen windows (which were usually open, so I could hear most of the conversation). And the house was only 700 sq ft so I could sit on my couch and look out the kitchen window. I'm pretty sure if one of the kids had been doing something overtly sexual I would have noticed. Of course they sometimes went to the park, where trees and fences blocked the view, but I was comfortable with that and still am. And I got to know these kids first. They played in my house My neighbor and I were in and out of each other's houses all day long. The dads were friends....for a time my DP was laid off and was the SAHP and so was the other dad. They and all the kids spent a lot of time together in one house or another.

And the people saying he could have seen something inappropriate, he could also see something inappropriate at daycare, or on a playdate with me and the other mom right there and the kids in another room playing, or when we go to the library and the homeless/mentally ill people are standing around cursing and making obscene gestures, or when we are at the hair shop or on the bus to new york and an r-rated movie is playing. You are telling me that your children are NEVER exposed to any of that?

Anyway it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks......they can raise their children how they see fit and I can do the same. They're my kids and I'll do it my way and people who don't fit in with that are frankly not welcome in our lives.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtiger*
> 
> And next time it may NOT be your mother calling CPS. (BTW - THAT is who the flag is about - not ANY call to CPS.) It may be your neighbor, concerned for a very small child being allowed out to play with much older children unsupervised.
> 
> I can tell you that I was pretty lax when it came to what ages I'd let my kids do stuff, but <3, outside, unsupervised by someone other than a bunch of 11yo's? No way in flippin' heck. And if I saw a neighborhood kid whose parent was allowing that repeatedly? *I* would call CPS - your anger be danged. It simply is not safe or responsible. Sorry.


And that is fine if you are prepared for slashed tires, broken windows, disappearing pets, at a minimum, not to mention your children and your family would be ostracized. because if you called on me you would have to call on the whole neighborhood and in my old neighborhood there would have been serious, major retaliation. And you wouldn't know who did it, because you would have called on about 14 families with a total of 20 or more kids. And CPS is not going to remove an entire street full of kids, so it would be a waste of your time. My child was not even the youngest one out there. Why do people think an 11 yr old can't watch a 3 yr old? 11 and 12 yr olds babysit for pay or at least get paid as mother's helpers (and that involves taking the kids out to play).


----------



## ~Charlie's~Angel~

Then this thread needs to be closed and the constant need and asking for advise needs to stop.

Bowing out out of PURE frustration. CIAO!


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> And that is fine if you are prepared for *slashed tires, broken windows, disappearing pets, at a minimum,* not to mention your children and your family would be ostracized. because if you called on me you would have to call on the whole neighborhood and in my old neighborhood there would have been serious, major retaliation. And you wouldn't know who did it, because you would have called on about 14 families with a total of 20 or more kids. And CPS is not going to remove an entire street full of kids, so it would be a waste of your time. My child was not even the youngest one out there. Why do people think an 11 yr old can't watch a 3 yr old? 11 and 12 yr olds babysit for pay or at least get paid as mother's helpers (and that involves taking the kids out to play).


You do realize that all of that would land you in JAIL - and your children would be FORCED into foster care? You seriously think slashing peoples tires, breaking their window's, and killing their pets is appropriate behavior? IT'S NOT. If you did that to someone who called CPS on you (and usually they don't even tell you who called), you're kids would be taken away even faster.

Put that protective mama instinct in play BEFORE something happens - start watching your children like a HAWK. IRRC your DS is the older of your 2 children right? If he's acting out sexually (and why doesn't really matter IMO - the behavior needs to be addressed anyway) you need to make sure that your dd is safe as well.


----------



## crunchy_mommy

The one thing I want to point out is, keeping an eye on your kid isn't just something to protect him. It's also something to protect others (kids, animals, etc.) because regardless of whether any abuse occurred, he clearly has issues, and to be perfectly honest, I would not be comfortable with your DS & my DS playing together without direct and constant supervision.

I had over-protective parents too (I didn't ride a bike or take a walk down the street until I was SIXTEEN, which is when I basically moved out, for ex.) and I get that you don't want to make that same mistake, it's something I'm SOOO conscious of too. But I have a very smart, tentative (doesn't run off or get into trouble), highly verbal, cautious 2yo and I cannot for the life of me imagine letting him play outside unattended yet. When you add in your DS's other issues, I would be even less comfortable with the idea. I do think you've swung too far in the opposite direction.

But regardless... the point is, there are a million things here that point to possible abuse but even if he weren't abused, there are lots of issues all around that suggest to me that he needs ongoing therapy. So no, I wouldn't drag him around to a million therapists 'til someone says, Yup he was abused (and I'm sure you could find lots that would say that, right or wrong)... I am saying to get a second, maybe even third, opinion to clarify exactly what's going on and settle on a comprehensive treatment plan.

Your posts really worry me -- I get that you feel attacked/defensive, and you totally know the situation better than we do, but I also remember the level of denial you had with that situation with your parents (cosleeping with DS etc.) and now, hindsight is 20/20 and you can see more clearly. You seem to show that same level of denial now, so that's what worries me.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> You do realize that all of that would land you in JAIL - and your children would be FORCED into foster care? You seriously think slashing peoples tires, breaking their window's, and killing their pets is appropriate behavior? IT'S NOT. If you did that to someone who called CPS on you (and usually they don't even tell you who called), you're kids would be taken away even faster.
> 
> Put that protective mama instinct in play BEFORE something happens - start watching your children like a HAWK. IRRC your DS is the older of your 2 children right? If he's acting out sexually (and why doesn't really matter IMO - the behavior needs to be addressed anyway) you need to make sure that your dd is safe as well.


I didn't say that I would do that. I have a dog and my kid would be heartbroken if someone took off with him. I don't think any of my old neighbors would have actually killed the pet. And no, I would not slash tires because imo that's just immature. But I might tell everyone in that person's circle what they did, and warn them that this person is a busybody, and to stay away, and otherwise embarrass/humiliate them to make my point. I know how awful it sounds, but I would do it if someone took it to that level. I was just saying that in my old neighborhood, hypothetically, if someone called CPS on the whole street, because all the parents were letting their 2 and 3 yr olds play outside, then that is probably what would have happened. No, I dont' slash tires and break windows. Those things can be fixed pretty easily. I would much rather have the person have to live with the humiliation of being a slanderer and be ostracized by those around them. Like my mom. It's not that hard to find out who called. Like I said, my ways of finding out I won't share, but I *always* find out. I don't care what they tell you, nothing is anonymous. Any information one wants can be gotten if you know where to look.

I was very worried about my dd and that was whyv I initially posted....I was trying to find a way to handle the behavior before he started repeating it, and I didn't want my dd to see it or God forbid he try something with her. You raise a very valid point about that.

crunchy mommy, yes, this thread took a turn where I do feel very attacked. and I would not be offended if a parent didn't want my ds playing here without constant supervision. I would respect that parent's level of comfort.


----------



## SubliminalDarkness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Well, I'm sorry, I guess we just disagree on this. Maybe if you all saw it you would see why it was a non issue. He was allowed in two adjoining yards and their bordering driveways, all clearly visible from my front and side kitchen windows (which were usually open, so I could hear most of the conversation). And the house was only 700 sq ft so I could sit on my couch and look out the kitchen window. I'm pretty sure if one of the kids had been doing something overtly sexual I would have noticed. Of course they sometimes went to the park, where trees and fences blocked the view, but I was comfortable with that and still am. And I got to know these kids first. They played in my house My neighbor and I were in and out of each other's houses all day long. The dads were friends....for a time my DP was laid off and was the SAHP and so was the other dad. They and all the kids spent a lot of time together in one house or another.
> 
> And the people saying he could have seen something inappropriate, he could also see something inappropriate at daycare, or on a playdate with me and the other mom right there and the kids in another room playing, or when we go to the library and the homeless/mentally ill people are standing around cursing and making obscene gestures, or when we are at the hair shop or on the bus to new york and an r-rated movie is playing. You are telling me that your children are NEVER exposed to any of that?
> 
> Anyway it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks......they can raise their children how they see fit and I can do the same. They're my kids and I'll do it my way and people who don't fit in with that are frankly not welcome in our lives.


You just contradicted yourself. I don't think you're seeing the forest for the trees, here. Sometimes your child has been out of your line of site/hearing. Sometimes when they go to the park. Sometimes when they're in another yard. When they were in a house. When they were in a house with your DP they could have been in another room. Older kids do inappropriate things sometimes, sometimes with each other and sometimes with younger kids. Your child is also, if he is indeed autistic or somewhere on the spectrum, not entirely "normal" in the kindest sense of the word. His processing of things could be entirely different from an average child. His sense of what's appropriate and not could be 'off' from even where other 3 year olds are, and other 3 year olds don't even have a great sense. Let alone under 3.....

This is all just very concerning. You say he's been evaluated by professionals. Fine. You want to drop it there? Fine. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.


----------



## JacqNS

You asked, "how do I handle this?" Here's how I'd handle it.

First and foremost, I'd take my child to another therapist to get a second opinion. Even if he wasn't abused, it is clear that he has some dysfunctional behaviors that need to be addressed. For his own protection and the protect of other children (his younger sibling, other children he comes in contact with, etc.) he needs ongoing therapy to address these issues and behaviors. Burying your head in the sand and clinging desperately to the conclusions of one therapist who deemed your child "not abused" not does negate the fact that your child needs help.

Second, I'd stop letting my child play unsupervised. Just because the status quo in your neighborhood is to let (very) young children play unsupervised, does not mean that you need to do the same. Your young child does not have the social, emotional, verbal, or behavioral skills to navigate such situations and you are asking for trouble. From what you've stated, these children come from families who would engage in criminal behaviors such as slashing tires, breaking windows, stealing pets, etc. Are these really the role models you want for your children? I'd also like to point out that there's a difference between hiring an 11 or 12 year old to look after your child as a mother's helper (one-on-one situation, a voluntary, paid responsibility, etc..) vs. expecting a 12 year old to voluntarily assume the responsibility of looking after a toddler while out in the neighborhood playing with friends.

Lastly, I'd do some serious soul searching and digging deep within your mama heart. If this issue with the dog were an isolated event, my response would be different. But this issue, coupled with the disturbing behaviors he's exhibited in the past, paints a very different picture. It's too soon to tell the extent of the damage your son has experienced, but its not too late to get him help. To stop thrusting him into harms way. To stop exposing him to people who have the potential to harm him. To stop making excusing and accepting responsibility for the the well being of your child.

With that, I am bowing out of this thread. I'm uncomfortable with the amount of personal information and identifying details that have been divulged here and think it best that this thread be closed.


----------



## Ldavis24

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I didn't say that I would do that. I have a dog and my kid would be heartbroken if someone took off with him. I don't think any of my old neighbors would have actually killed the pet. And no, I would not slash tires because imo that's just immature. But I might tell everyone in that person's circle what they did, and warn them that this person is a busybody, and to stay away, and otherwise embarrass/humiliate them to make my point. I know how awful it sounds, but I would do it if someone took it to that level. I was just saying that in my old neighborhood, hypothetically, if someone called CPS on the whole street, because all the parents were letting their 2 and 3 yr olds play outside, then that is probably what would have happened. No, I dont' slash tires and break windows. Those things can be fixed pretty easily. I would much rather have the person have to live with the humiliation of being a slanderer and be ostracized by those around them. Like my mom. It's not that hard to find out who called. Like I said, my ways of finding out I won't share, but I *always* find out. I don't care what they tell you, nothing is anonymous. Any information one wants can be gotten if you know where to look.
> 
> I was very worried about my dd and that was whyv I initially posted....I was trying to find a way to handle the behavior before he started repeating it, and I didn't want my dd to see it or God forbid he try something with her. You raise a very valid point about that.
> 
> crunchy mommy, yes, this thread took a turn where I do feel very attacked. and I would not be offended if a parent didn't want my ds playing here without constant supervision. I would respect that parent's level of comfort.


Here is my question and then I am running far away from this thread...

Why are you more concerned with retatliating against the "busybody" who would call CPS out of concern for your KID than figuring out why they might have felt the need to call CPS?

Like I said I read through all your threads and you were on the verge, or did call CPS on more than one occasion for other people's children. You WERE the busybody in those situations. I'm not saying it is wrong but you are right here saying you'd flip out, humiliate and ruin a person because they are concerned enough to call CPS about your kids, when you in fact have been in that position literally, wondering if you should call CPS...

I think you are allowing the whole "I will fight the world if someone dare calls CPS on me" thing to overshadow the fact that you are ignoring the very serious behaviors of your son, abuse or no abuse he NEEDS more help than he is obviously getting and I think that should be your primary focus instead of bellowing about how you will "fight for your kids"....I think every mama here would fight as hard as they could for their kids, myself included...I very much doubt anyone thinks you wouldn't so you can let that go...Just get the help your son desperately needs and try to be open to the possibility that you don't know everything that could have happened to him...

Peace,

I am outta here fast now.


----------



## Chamomile Girl

I have found this thread very frustrating too, but instead because people are fixated on berating the OP rather than offering support. Seriously people, WTF? And then the whole second part of this thread is all about finding the one thing about her parenting style you disagree with and focusing on that. If I were in a situation where I felt comfortable I would certainly allow a three year old outside without me. Does that mean that my three year old _must_ then be abused in some way?? Geez...what a twisted, crappy, jaded view many of you have about the others you share the world with.

Abuse exists as the OP knows given her own experience. Most abuse comes from family members though, not the mysterious sexual predator down the street.

Just because someone refuses to live in constant fear on behalf of her children does NOT make her a bad mom, nor does it mean that her child's issues MUST be because of the one parenting decision she is not in agreement with y'all about. I totally agree with Storm Bride's assessment of the situation. Her DS sounds like he has some other issues that are manifesting themselves sexually because he doesn't understand social boundaries.

OP you have kept your cool in this thread much longer than I would have because you have been attacked.

And you know what?? For those of you who are screaming to have this thread shut down because it makes you uncomfortable shame on you. OP started it because she wanted support and she has not requested it be shut down. This just seems like another manifestation of the random "predator fear" that colors so many posts. Why should we not be able to speak of children and sexuality without having to constantly look over our shoulders? Is that not viewing the situation in the very shame-based model we are trying so hard not to instill in our kids?


----------



## joensally

Quote:


> He was recently diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD, sensory integration disorder, and unofficially with anxiety


OP, I encourage you to post on the SN board here. There's lots of experienced moms there who can help with ideas.

Who diagnosed the above, and through what process? I ask because both Asperger's and ADHD are not typically diagnosed until 7-8 years old or later, and it's now called Sensory Processing Disorder rather than the old SID. Is your son receiving any therapies specific to his special needs, like OT? I believe that kid's and parents' time and energies are valuable, and it's important that they get the help they need so I hope that the clinicians you're seeing are experienced and giving you the guidance and help that's right for your son.


----------



## junipermoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> I have found this thread very frustrating too, but instead because people are fixated on berating the OP rather than offering support. Seriously people, WTF? And then the whole second part of this thread is all about finding the one thing about her parenting style you disagree with and focusing on that. If I were in a situation where I felt comfortable I would certainly allow a three year old outside without me. Does that mean that my three year old _must_ then be abused in some way?? Geez...what a twisted, crappy, jaded view many of you have about the others you share the world with.
> 
> Abuse exists as the OP knows given her own experience. Most abuse comes from family members though, not the mysterious sexual predator down the street.
> 
> Just because someone refuses to live in constant fear on behalf of her children does NOT make her a bad mom, nor does it mean that her child's issues MUST be because of the one parenting decision she is not in agreement with y'all about. I totally agree with Storm Bride's assessment of the situation. Her DS sounds like he has some other issues that are manifesting themselves sexually because he doesn't understand social boundaries.
> 
> OP you have kept your cool in this thread much longer than I would have because you have been attacked.
> 
> And you know what?? For those of you who are screaming to have this thread shut down because it makes you uncomfortable shame on you. OP started it because she wanted support and she has not requested it be shut down. This just seems like another manifestation of the random "predator fear" that colors so many posts. Why should we not be able to speak of children and sexuality without having to constantly look over our shoulders? Is that not viewing the situation in the very shame-based model we are trying so hard not to instill in our kids?


I agree with all of this.

OP, the reason I feel like it would be wise to keep your kid in your line of sight is because ime the MOST successful treatment plans when very lil ones are having issues involve being constantly hooked up to mama or mama's chosen helpers for support and rewiring. You don't have to be constantly interacting with him--but be around always just in case the need to intervene arises. I am certainly not saying you should live in fear!?

I AM saying, it's all about attachment when it comes to treatment plans for young kids--there are various ways to handle various things, but the basis of "healing" in the under five crowd is almost always got to be grounded in healthy attachment and the key is almost always in the hands of the primary caregiver. You showing him the way. You shouldn't be overbearing, but follow your instincts and keep him under your wing. If it were me, I would do line of sight supervision until you are confident he is ready to hatch. I'd re-home the dog so there is one less thing to worry about. You have plenty of time to let him run with the neighbor kids, play with dogs or baby sisters and so on by himself, just as soon as he has the internal equipment to do so. Anyway, you asked for advice, and that is my advice. Repeated again in shorter format.


----------



## JacqNS

I am one of the people who suggested that this thread be shut down (although "screaming" seems a bit harsh, no?). My reason has nothing to do with a random predator fear or that fact that it makes me uncomfortable. The OP has talked frequently about the toxic family that she cut off and my concern was that they could track her down on here and use this post as ammunition. As stated by a previous poster, her user profile and posts contain enough identifying information to make her posts on this site a highly relevant Google hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl* 
.......


> For those of you who are screaming to have this thread shut down because it makes you uncomfortable shame on you. OP started it because she wanted support and she has not requested it be shut down. This just seems like another manifestation of the random "predator fear" that colors so many posts. Why should we not be able to speak of children and sexuality without having to constantly look over our shoulders? Is that not viewing the situation in the very shame-based model we are trying so hard not to instill in our kids?


----------



## AttunedMama

OP Mama:

I am young mama who is now older than you, and I have survived CPS. I assure you, all the pimp-talk in the world won't make them go away or return your babies or whatever. I share your sentiments, but it's just not really relevant. You are in their prey-class because you are young and they have heard of you before. Racist? Yes. Classist? Yes. This is America, it's pretty ingrained in the fabric of the nation, eh?

Moving on- I think you sound like a caring mama. If your partner sucks, stop explaining it. If he treats your kid bad, don't look for a reason to make that look OK. Just leave him. Nobody here can make that call. I do know that there's an epidemic of what some street-scholars call 'addiction to penis power' or something like that. Where women keep men around even when it does not make sense.

The fact that you were reared by toxic parents means you need recovery. Professional help is not the only way to do it, but I have personally found that it steps up the process. Please take this with love. If you can't bear it now, print it off and stick it in a drawer for a month. A year. When you reread it and can find the grains of truth within all these various judgments, and can take them for what it really has to offer, you are a master of your reality. Cause there is truth AND over-judgment here. That's what I think.


----------



## joensally

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *junipermoon*
> 
> I agree with all of this.
> 
> OP, the reason I feel like it would be wise to keep your kid in your line of sight is because ime the MOST successful treatment plans when very lil ones are having issues involve being constantly hooked up to mama or mama's chosen helpers for support and rewiring. You don't have to be constantly interacting with him--but be around always just in case the need to intervene arises. I am certainly not saying you should live in fear!?
> 
> I AM saying, it's all about attachment when it comes to treatment plans for young kids--there are various ways to handle various things, but the basis of "healing" in the under five crowd is almost always got to be grounded in healthy attachment and the key is almost always in the hands of the primary caregiver. You showing him the way. You shouldn't be overbearing, but follow your instincts and keep him under your wing. If it were me, I would do line of sight supervision until you are confident he is ready to hatch. I'd re-home the dog so there is one less thing to worry about. You have plenty of time to let him run with the neighbor kids, play with dogs or baby sisters and so on by himself, just as soon as he has the internal equipment to do so. Anyway, you asked for advice, and that is my advice. Repeated again in shorter format.


This is good advice.

If a child has developmental special needs, may have experienced some level of abuse (even if it's simply seeing something that has caused ongoing confusion/acting out, or whatever went down with the GPs), is living with a parent under tremendous stress (and I imagine this process with OP's parents has been very time consuming and emotionally volatile for OP), and the family has undergone consecutive transitions (moving) - the child needs high attachment efforts, lots of guidance and supervision.

Young children's experiences literally changes their brains. The way to heal when some of their experiences have been confusing/complicated/traumatizing includes providing lots of time, patience, attachment and rhythm based activities. This is a great handout:



> *http://tinyurl.com/3us3qr7*





> Annoyingly, this link needs to be downloaded, but it is a safe pdf document.


----------



## gbailey

I totally disagree with you. A person looking for support is open to what others suggest and even if you don't agree at the moment take the opinions of others into consideration. Instead OP has a reason for everything she's doing or not doing as it relates to her son. Instead of taking, what I believe is well meaning concern from the posters who have responded, she offers excuse after excuse or gets annoyed because people are genuinely concerned for the well-being of her son. Someone offers a suggestion and OP immediately shuts it down. Personally, that does not sound like a person looking for support but someone who wants someone to agree with their decision making.

Furthermore, I don't believe anyone suggested OP live in constant fear. However, most people agree (as do I) that leaving a three year old unattended to play is not a wise decision. That's not being over protective. Where I live, supervising a three year old is along the lines of responsible parenting especially when that child is playing with a lot of older children.

Why should posters who want the thread shut down feel ashamed? The thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere or yielding any positive results! Every suggestion is met with an excuse. I feel comfortable in saying NO ONE in this threads want that baby to have been abused. I am sure everyone hopes that is not the case. However, it is very disconcerting to read posts that suggest a stronger passion for revenge on people who report the family to CPS instead of using that kind of passion to find solutions for what may be the issues of a child who's unable to make decisions for his or her self.

A lot of what OP has experienced is very unfortunate and I feel very deeply for her children. OP, it's unfortunate you feel attacked but I truly believe people are concerned for the welfare of your children.

I wish you and your babies the best. Bowing out too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> I have found this thread very frustrating too, but instead because people are fixated on berating the OP rather than offering support. Seriously people, WTF? And then the whole second part of this thread is all about finding the one thing about her parenting style you disagree with and focusing on that. If I were in a situation where I felt comfortable I would certainly allow a three year old outside without me. Does that mean that my three year old _must_ then be abused in some way?? Geez...what a twisted, crappy, jaded view many of you have about the others you share the world with.
> 
> Abuse exists as the OP knows given her own experience. Most abuse comes from family members though, not the mysterious sexual predator down the street.
> 
> Just because someone refuses to live in constant fear on behalf of her children does NOT make her a bad mom, nor does it mean that her child's issues MUST be because of the one parenting decision she is not in agreement with y'all about. I totally agree with Storm Bride's assessment of the situation. Her DS sounds like he has some other issues that are manifesting themselves sexually because he doesn't understand social boundaries.
> 
> OP you have kept your cool in this thread much longer than I would have because you have been attacked.
> 
> And you know what?? For those of you who are screaming to have this thread shut down because it makes you uncomfortable shame on you. OP started it because she wanted support and she has not requested it be shut down. This just seems like another manifestation of the random "predator fear" that colors so many posts. Why should we not be able to speak of children and sexuality without having to constantly look over our shoulders? Is that not viewing the situation in the very shame-based model we are trying so hard not to instill in our kids?


----------



## Drummer's Wife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> However, most people agree (as do I) that leaving a three year old unattended to play is not a wise decision. That's not being over protective. Where I live, supervising a three year old is along the lines of responsible parenting especially when that child is playing with a lot of older children.


Right. And I think what some posters are getting at is that it is a form of bad judgment, which makes one wonder if other aspects of what is going on with this small child are not being taken as seriously as they should be.

Also, I don't believe for one second that CPS marks a particular file with "all future calls are retaliation/unjust". I'm NOT saying that I wish involvement between CPS and the OP's family, just that this is pretty naive to believe and if there was even a chance that someone would accuse me of neglect/abuse/etc., I would be that much more vigilant in supervising my children... and that includes not letting them be unattended with a pet (really, it is possible to keep them separated when both are not in plain sight) as well as being outside without an adult. An 11 yr old neighbor kid is not a substitution, especially not with this particular child.


----------



## lkvosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AttunedMama*
> 
> Moving on- I think you sound like a caring mama. If your partner sucks, stop explaining it. If he treats your kid bad, don't look for a reason to make that look OK. Just leave him. Nobody here can make that call. I do know that there's an epidemic of what some street-scholars call 'addiction to penis power' or something like that. Where women keep men around even when it does not make sense.
> 
> The fact that you were reared by toxic parents means you need recovery. Professional help is not the only way to do it, but I have personally found that it steps up the process. Please take this with love. If you can't bear it now, print it off and stick it in a drawer for a month. A year. When you reread it and can find the grains of truth within all these various judgments, and can take them for what it really has to offer, you are a master of your reality. Cause there is truth AND over-judgment here. That's what I think.


My thoughts exactly. This thread is very sad. OP, I hope you and your little ones find the help and love that you need.


----------



## cynthia mosher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chamomile Girl*
> 
> I have found this thread very frustrating too, but instead because people are fixated on berating the OP rather than offering support. Seriously people, WTF? And then the whole second part of this thread is all about finding the one thing about her parenting style you disagree with and focusing on that. If I were in a situation where I felt comfortable I would certainly allow a three year old outside without me. Does that mean that my three year old _must_ then be abused in some way?? Geez...what a twisted, crappy, jaded view many of you have about the others you share the world with.
> 
> Abuse exists as the OP knows given her own experience. Most abuse comes from family members though, not the mysterious sexual predator down the street.
> 
> Just because someone refuses to live in constant fear on behalf of her children does NOT make her a bad mom, nor does it mean that her child's issues MUST be because of the one parenting decision she is not in agreement with y'all about. I totally agree with Storm Bride's assessment of the situation. Her DS sounds like he has some other issues that are manifesting themselves sexually because he doesn't understand social boundaries.
> 
> OP you have kept your cool in this thread much longer than I would have because you have been attacked.
> 
> And you know what?? For those of you who are screaming to have this thread shut down because it makes you uncomfortable shame on you. OP started it because she wanted support and she has not requested it be shut down. This just seems like another manifestation of the random "predator fear" that colors so many posts. Why should we not be able to speak of children and sexuality without having to constantly look over our shoulders? Is that not viewing the situation in the very shame-based model we are trying so hard not to instill in our kids?


Well said. Thank you.

The OP is asking for advice and support so she can get the help she needs for herself and her child. If you have suggestions to offer her free of judgment, belittlement and accusation, please do continue contributing to the discussion. If you find concern with the OPs actions, statements, and situation, please express that in an appropriate way that gives respect to her and assumes the best of her intentions and actions.

If you find this discussion disturbing and cannot post respectfully without negativity then you are likely not the ideal person to be able to give this mother advice in a way she can best receive it and put it to use so please step out and allow others to do so.

Peace everyone.


----------



## kawa kamuri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> And that is fine if you are prepared for slashed tires, broken windows, disappearing pets, at a minimum, not to mention your children and your family would be ostracized. because if you called on me you would have to call on the whole neighborhood and in my old neighborhood there would have been serious, major retaliation. And you wouldn't know who did it, because you would have called on about 14 families with a total of 20 or more kids. And CPS is not going to remove an entire street full of kids, so it would be a waste of your time. My child was not even the youngest one out there. Why do people think an 11 yr old can't watch a 3 yr old? 11 and 12 yr olds babysit for pay or at least get paid as mother's helpers (and that involves taking the kids out to play).


This is pretty much what my old neighbourhood was like. You keep to yourself or you pay the price. There was a vicious pack mentality that I was not interested in being a part of, that my race sometimes excluded me from, and because of that I was on the outside and conspicuous. Big kids watched little kids and often times not in a caring way. There was a lot of mistreatment of the children in my community. Neglect and abuse. Drug use and crime. It wouldn't have been difficult to figure out who said what and at that point the person who called CPS would be in danger. Their children would be in danger. Their belongings would be stolen or trashed. A person could not possibly call on everyone living on the street - though it might be warranted - CPS would have no place to put those children. Most likely nothing would be done aside from making a target of yourself.

I don't mean any of that as a reflection on the OP, who I don't know, but to point out that the above quote is sadly common even if it is shocking to those of us who've been privileged enough to avoid that kind of living situation.


----------



## Lauren31

If you know your neighborhood is the way that you describe it to be, why do you allow your 3 year old to go out with the older kids unsupervised by you? You are the mom! You can say no to a 3 year old. No matter the age and if it's "typical" for a 12 year old to babysit a 3 year old, in your neighborhood it seems dangerous to allow this.


----------



## NiteNicole

To the original question - I think I would rehome the dog, asap. We have a dog and he is part of our family, he's seven years older than my daughter and truly filled that "childless" void for me for a long time so I'm very very attached to him and he is attached to us. I can't imagine life without him and never never never suggest someone just get rid of a pet. However, this is the third time it's happened. You can't rely on the judgment of a small child and a dog and this could potentially go so very, tragically wrong with a bite and then you'll have a son who is hurt and the dog will have to be put down.

We have made a practice of not leaving our dog and our daughter alone together. She's five and I just now trust HER enough not to impulsively pet HIM too hard both because my daughter could seriously injure the dog and because he might snap back at her. It takes some effort on our part, but we've managed for five years. If that's not possible (although you have an even younger child so I would assume you have some way of keeping them all apart when you can't supervise directly but I know, kids can be quick), rehoming is probably your best option and fastest fix.

I know it would be a really hard choice but it seems like you have a lot of other things on your plate. Good luck to you and your family.


----------



## PoppyMama

Inapprpriate sexual behavior in a young child does not, in and of itself, scream sexual abuse. Appropriateness is a learned behavior and some kids take a lot longer to comply. From everything I've read it seems this kid has been examined thoroughly by multiple people more qualified than we are and the experts don't find any sexual abuse. This little boy has had far more instability than anyone would like their child to experience and part of that is due to his mothers unstable life. Its unfortunate but I have seen a huge amount of growth in the op over the years and im impressed and happy for her children that they have a mother who, even if she doesn't work on our bystander timetable, haws moved mountains for her kids.

Btw- my children have been playing outside in mixed age groups since a bit younger than 3 too. I don't find it to be negligent and neither did the police offer that came by after my rear neighbor called to report me for child endangerment. I do agree that with some of theissues her ds is having extra supervision might be in order.


----------



## AttunedMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*
> 
> This is pretty much what my old neighbourhood was like. You keep to yourself or you pay the price. There was a vicious pack mentality that I was not interested in being a part of, that my race sometimes excluded me from, and because of that I was on the outside and conspicuous. Big kids watched little kids and often times not in a caring way. There was a lot of mistreatment of the children in my community. Neglect and abuse. Drug use and crime. It wouldn't have been difficult to figure out who said what and at that point the person who called CPS would be in danger. Their children would be in danger. Their belongings would be stolen or trashed. A person could not possibly call on everyone living on the street - though it might be warranted - CPS would have no place to put those children. Most likely nothing would be done aside from making a target of yourself.
> 
> I don't mean any of that as a reflection on the OP, who I don't know, but to point out that the above quote is sadly common *even if it is shocking to those of us who've been privileged enough to avoid that kind of living situation.*


Exactly. This is a huge component of the american landscape. In my last place, CPS was the calling card of one set of particularly unpleasant folks. I parked too near "their" spot?: "We're gon' call CPS on you!!!!" Asked them to stop using my property?: "We're gon' call CPS on yeeewwwwwww!!!" You get the idea. Ugh.

American has planted some depraved seeds that are matured and bolting. Being poor makes people bats$*& crazy. I don't think the OP is lost to sanity, but I do think that those who are just totally reacting to this thread need to wake up.


----------



## gbailey

Frankly, how would you suggest someone do that when it seems like the care of a three year old is in peril? There's a child involved who's witnessed his mother being physically abused, is moved around from place to place including a communal situation with the dregs of the earth and who has been exposed to lord knows what because his mother allows him to play alone outside. How, pray tell, do you recommend posters give advice to a mother who makes excuses for everything and who ignores the advice of well-intentioned posters?

OP claims ALL CPS complaints against her have been unfounded and with malicious intent. If that were true, the state of Virginia would prosecute the people who OP claims are making up lies about her. Clearly, if so many posters are concerned about the welfare of her children and have never met her or her children, then it's reasonable to believe those who do know her and are around her have reason to believe her children need an intervention.

It's sad that a lot of people on MDC are more bothered by Disney movies and Dora the Explorer than they are about a mother who, from what she posts, does not put the needs of her children first! I'm 1000% okay with having my membership removed/banned because of this post because THIS needs to be said! It doesn't have to be nice to be the truth. The end! Thanks to everyone for making my MDC experience good while it lasted.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cynthia Mosher* eing
> 
> Well said. Thank you.





> The OP is asking for advice and support so she can get the help she needs for herself and her child. If you have suggestions to offer her free of judgment, belittlement and accusation, please do continue contributing to the discussion. If you find concern with the OPs actions, statements, and situation, please express that in an appropriate way that gives respect to her and assumes the best of her intentions and actions.
> 
> If you find this discussion disturbing and cannot post respectfully without negativity then you are likely not the ideal person to be able to give this mother advice in a way she can best receive it and put it to use so please step out and allow others to do so.
> 
> Peace everyone.


----------



## nashvillemidwife

waiting2bemommy, YOU are the one who comes here ALL THE TIME talking about how messed up your life is, how messed up your children's behavior is, how messed up your partner is, and how much unnecessary drama and trauma you are exposing your kids to. MDC has thousands of members, yet very few of them are here all the time complaining about all the crazy messed up things that are happening with their kids. If that's not a cry for help, why do you come here? If you don't want people to be concerned for you, get off the freaking internet talking about how your kid is taking off his pants and sticking his penis up a Barbie doll in public and start protecting them.


----------



## DariusMom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Frankly, how would you suggest someone do that when it seems like the care of a three year old is in peril? There's a child involved who's witnessed his mother being physically abused, is moved around from place to place including a communal situation with the dregs of the earth and who has been exposed to lord knows what because his mother allows him to play alone outside. How, pray tell, do you recommend posters give advice to a mother who makes excuses for everything and who ignores the advice of well-intentioned posters?
> 
> OP claims ALL CPS complaints against her have been unfounded and with malicious intent. If that were true, the state of Virginia would prosecute the people who OP claims are making up lies about her. Clearly, if so many posters are concerned about the welfare of her children and have never met her or her children, then it's reasonable to believe those who do know her and are around her have reason to believe her children need an intervention.
> 
> It's sad that a lot of people on MDC are more bothered by Disney movies and Dora the Explorer than they are about a mother who, from what she posts, does not put the needs of her children first! I'm 1000% okay with having my membership removed/banned because of this post because THIS needs to be said! It doesn't have to be nice to be the truth. The end! Thanks to everyone for making my MDC experience good while it lasted.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nashvillemidwife*
> 
> waiting2bemommy, YOU are the one who comes here ALL THE TIME talking about how messed up your life is, how messed up your children's behavior is, how messed up your partner is, and how much unnecessary drama and trauma you are exposing your kids to. MDC has thousands of members, yet very few of them are here all the time complaining about all the crazy messed up things that are happening with their kids. If that's not a cry for help, why do you come here? If you don't want people to be concerned for you, get off the freaking internet talking about how your kid is taking off his pants and sticking his penis up a Barbie doll in public and start protecting them.


Yes to both these posts. I feel exactly the same way.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Aside from the fact that I do feel very attacked by many of the posters (I think there is usually more than one way to say something, and it's really super helpful if you choose the gentle/kind way to say it) I really feel as if people are maybe not reading my responses completely. But maybe I'm not explaining myself well, or ....something. I just don't know.

Something else which I think is true of a lot of people is that I tend to come here and post when I have a problem that needs solving, or a question that really bugs me. That includes gripes about my DP, worries about my kids and so forth. IT's highly unlikely that I'm going to post here just to say "everything is groovy," kwim? So it is very likely that I have inadvertently colored people's opinions of my family, by only posting about the negatives.

attuned mama, I promise you, that no way would I stay with a man for 2 years because of his penis. I know it's more complex than that, but believe me, just....no. no freaking way.

When I posted about serious problems with my DP and his parenting skills (or lack thereof) many posters suggested that I leave him and get help. I spent several months living with my toxic parents (only other option) and pursuing counseling. We both went to counseling to learn how to communicate and how to parent. Step parenting did not come easy for him, but he worked at it. It was important to him to bond with ds, but he was doing it all wrong, being too pushy and too physical with a child who had just survived domestic violence and was not trusting of men. so he learned new skills that were very different than the parenting he was surrounded with in his community of origin. He and ds are close now and I do not see any fear or anxiety in ds surrounding my DP. I'm saying all this to show that although I didn't post every detail, I took the advice I was given and put it into action.

Right now I am keeping either the dog OR ds with me all the time. This is pretty easy because unless the kids bother her she sleeps a lot. I put her bed in our bedroom and I can shut the door so the kids don't bother her.

Everyone in the family currently is getting therapy already. They sent home a behavioral assessment from school and it will be "graded" by the school psychologist, so I will put this information on there as well.


----------



## junipermoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Frankly, how would you suggest someone do that when it seems like the care of a three year old is in peril? There's a child involved who's witnessed his mother being physically abused, is moved around from place to place including a communal situation with the dregs of the earth and who has been exposed to lord knows what because his mother allows him to play alone outside. How, pray tell, do you recommend posters give advice to a mother who makes excuses for everything and who ignores the advice of well-intentioned posters?
> 
> OP claims ALL CPS complaints against her have been unfounded and with malicious intent. If that were true, the state of Virginia would prosecute the people who OP claims are making up lies about her. Clearly, if so many posters are concerned about the welfare of her children and have never met her or her children, then it's reasonable to believe those who do know her and are around her have reason to believe her children need an intervention.
> 
> It's sad that a lot of people on MDC are more bothered by Disney movies and Dora the Explorer than they are about a mother who, from what she posts, does not put the needs of her children first! I'm 1000% okay with having my membership removed/banned because of this post because THIS needs to be said! It doesn't have to be nice to be the truth. The end! Thanks to everyone for making my MDC experience good while it lasted.


woa there your perspectives are framed by your life experiences and so are mine. so are the OPs. everyone who reads here or posts here is for some reason or another looking for support or connection as mothers or primary care givers. nobody needs to be attacked in order to have a conversation.

"peril" is a strong word to use. the op is a woman, as another poster pointed out, who has moved MOUNTAINS for her kids. Mountains of a type you might never have seen or even climbed, let alone MOVED. And she continues to do this--and don't think her kids won't grow up holding that in their heart.

"truth" is another interesting concept you bring up in your post. if viscously phrased statements and ugly verbal diatribes are more "truthful" in your construction of this situation than compassionate or at least respectful communications, then that is on you and might be something for you to explore.


----------



## junipermoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Aside from the fact that I do feel very attacked by many of the posters (I think there is usually more than one way to say something, and it's really super helpful if you choose the gentle/kind way to say it) I really feel as if people are maybe not reading my responses completely. But maybe I'm not explaining myself well, or ....something. I just don't know.
> 
> Something else which I think is true of a lot of people is that I tend to come here and post when I have a problem that needs solving, or a question that really bugs me. That includes gripes about my DP, worries about my kids and so forth. IT's highly unlikely that I'm going to post here just to say "everything is groovy," kwim? So it is very likely that I have inadvertently colored people's opinions of my family, by only posting about the negatives.
> 
> attuned mama, I promise you, that no way would I stay with a man for 2 years because of his penis. I know it's more complex than that, but believe me, just....no. no freaking way.
> 
> When I posted about serious problems with my DP and his parenting skills (or lack thereof) many posters suggested that I leave him and get help. I spent several months living with my toxic parents (only other option) and pursuing counseling. We both went to counseling to learn how to communicate and how to parent. Step parenting did not come easy for him, but he worked at it. It was important to him to bond with ds, but he was doing it all wrong, being too pushy and too physical with a child who had just survived domestic violence and was not trusting of men. so he learned new skills that were very different than the parenting he was surrounded with in his community of origin. He and ds are close now and I do not see any fear or anxiety in ds surrounding my DP. I'm saying all this to show that although I didn't post every detail, I took the advice I was given and put it into action.
> 
> Right now I am keeping either the dog OR ds with me all the time. This is pretty easy because unless the kids bother her she sleeps a lot. I put her bed in our bedroom and I can shut the door so the kids don't bother her.
> 
> Everyone in the family currently is getting therapy already. They sent home a behavioral assessment from school and it will be "graded" by the school psychologist, so I will put this information on there as well.


Great post.

Yes I do think some posters are not totally reading your posts completely. Or at least are fine tooth combing for what they don't agree with in ways that leave them blind to what a freakin awesome parent you have been given the cards life has been dealing you lately. I am SO GLAD you keep posting--thank you for that. Because, even though I don't know you, I am cheering for you from the sidelines. In the movie I am watching, you are playing the heroine, not any other part.

Good that you have the dog thing under control. I think if you have a sleepy dog, that could work. I had to rehome our beautiful lab mix when my youngest was born because it just wasn't working--actually, she is in doggie foster care--I am paying someone with a dog friendly home to take care of her until my littlest is 5 or so--because I just couldn't manage the added stress of supervising dog-small child interactions. My small herd of goats (no kidding) is less work than supervising that scene--so I hope I did not come off as mean in suggesting you give your dog up...I think I was just worried that managing all of it might put you over the edge lol.


----------



## beenmum

CPS can not legally flag your home so NO calls can be made. The can take the names of callers to rule out your mother and charge her. But no way can they NOT investigate your home from now on just b/c you have had a couple malicious calls. That is not protocal. So dont feel too safe. I assure you that isnt the case.

Also, The dog thing wouldnt have raised red flags on its own. But the Barbie incident tells me that he has SEEN sexual activity, if not been a part of it.

Kids dont know what thier penis is for at 2/3 years old. To them its for peeing. Not for putting naked females on top of.

They dont know that the Barbie should be naked. They dont know that the Barbie should be nakes over his penis. Those are not natural or instintual behaviours for young children.

As someone who works with at risk kids in the past.....that would have been a major red flag.

Why do you think that your son 1. Stripped the Barbie. 2. Stripped himself and 3. Put the barbie over his gentitals and Spread her legs!!!

Surely you KNOW he must have seen this. There is no way that this was a sensory issue. He saw something.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> CPS can not legally flag your home so NO calls can be made. The can take the names of callers to rule out your mother and charge her. But no way can they NOT investigate your home from now on just b/c you have had a couple malicious calls. That is not protocal. So dont feel too safe. I assure you that isnt the case.
> 
> Also, The dog thing wouldnt have raised red flags on its own. But the Barbie incident tells me that he has SEEN sexual activity, if not been a part of it.
> 
> Kids dont know what thier penis is for at 2/3 years old. To them its for peeing. Not for putting naked females on top of.
> 
> They dont know that the Barbie should be naked. They dont know that the Barbie should be nakes over his penis. Those are not natural or instintual behaviours for young children.
> 
> As someone who works with at risk kids in the past.....that would have been a major red flag.
> 
> Why do you think that your son 1. Stripped the Barbie. 2. Stripped himself and 3. Put the barbie over his gentitals and Spread her legs!!!
> 
> Surely you KNOW he must have seen this. There is no way that this was a sensory issue. He saw something.


I never said that the Barbie thing was sensory. I definitely saw it as a red flag. Do I need to post the actual name of the play therapist here on MDC so people will GET.OFF.MY.BACK. about saying I'm ignoring signs of abuse? I took him to play therapy. She couldn't get anything out of him even with all her tricks and tools. We did a series of session with her to work on his anxiety and some behavioral things. Nothing ever came out about the Barbie thing, now did he ever offer an explanation. The therapists' official "guess" was TV. She wanted us to remove all TV's from our home. I would be willing to say that TV was the culprit because ds has woken up in the night and come out to where we are watching something "adult" in another room. Of course we turn it off or remove him from the room, bu it only takes a glimpse to stick in a child's head. In fact, I even took my MOM to his therapy session one day, in addition to DP coming a few times as well.

And you know what, if CPS comes, it will be a waste of your tax dollars. How much will it cost them to do the whole circus again? Another forensic interview? Another round of interviews with everyone who is involved with our life? Another request to every doctor or counselor we have had contact with in the last 2 years for an official statement about our family and their observations? Then, when it's all done and the case is closed again, the legal fees for us to take whoever called *this* time to court? Not to mention the waste of manpower when CPS workers are already stretched thin.

You know, if someone chooses to call, it's pointless but I guess I'll just humor them again, wait til it's over, and then blow my lid. I'm so done arguing about it. Oh, and when the CPS worker shows up at my door and frightens my ds like last time by telling him "you may be staying with some other folks tonight" I'll be sure to post a video of him sobbing and screaming and clinging to my legs and DP's legs here on MDC.


----------



## beenmum

Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching it?

Actually, I did say that it was apparent that he SAW it. Not that he was abused. But SAW it.

And you answered with the bit of info that you exposed him to it.

Editing b/c it must have com across harshly when it was my intention to just point it out. Not jump on the OP.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

I didn't mention it because to me it had nothing to do with him and the dog situation. What he saw on TV could have been related to the Barbie incident, which was over a year ago and was dealt with properly (therapy, pediatrician). It's funny how people start digging through threads to revisit old drama.

If the Barbie thing happened last month, then this month the dog thing, ok, yes I would see people's point. But when so much time has elapsed between incidents, AND he has been seen regularly by trained professionals, I'm inclined to think that the dog thing is not sexual and is not related to the barbie thing.

It wasn't porn, ftr, I was just thinking of R-rated movies. I'm quite definite about the fact that I have never watched any kind of movie where dogs and people "interacted" like that!

I'm sure I will get beaten up all over again for this, but when we were getting him out of teh bath tonight he made like he was going to the dog to do it again, and when I told him to stop he laughed and said, "I can't let the dog lick me? Can I let the dog poop on me? Can she do a fart on me? If she bites my pee pee off I'll put her in timeout and she'll cry." I have no idea what *that* little monologue meant, exactly, but it didn't sound sexual. I called the ped's office and asked for their soonest appt (just in case, since this is obviously still an issue) and when they asked what it was for and I told them, the nurse actually LAUGHED at me, and said, "You'll survive the weekend, Mom." And asked me if it was my first boy. grrrrrrrrrrr.

I don't understand the discrepancy between the responses I get on MDC and the responses I get IRL. I have nothing to hide. It's very frustrating.


----------



## Chamomile Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching it?
> 
> Actually, I did say that it was apparent that he SAW it. Not that he was abused. But SAW it.
> 
> And you answered with the bit of info that you exposed him to it.
> 
> So, I guess I was right.
> 
> .
> 
> What would YOU say to someone who said that their 2 year old son performed accurate sexual posistioning, including removing both the dolls clothes and his own, in conjunction with that same person saying that this same child has a dog licking their penis.
> 
> And why would we want to see your son crying and holding onto your leg? That is just ridiculous. Your not 8 years old. I have no idea why you thought that was an acceptable thing to say.


I have no idea why _you_ found any of the above acceptable to say. Your tone is nasty and you had to point out that you were "right" like a three-year old.

I would like to remind you that the OP did not post to inquire about a Barbie incident from a year ago, but to receive support about a much more recent incident. And your post is neither helpful nor supportive.

I guess I just don't understand why people think it appropriate to use the OP as a punching bag. But I guess its just because my Disney-hating ways interfeare with my love of children as a PP pointed out.


----------



## AttunedMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Well, gee, why didnt you say in the beginning that he could have seen porn while you were istting in the livingroom watching


Wow, this is off the chain. Freakin' HATEFUL!


----------



## VisionaryMom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I don't understand the discrepancy between the responses I get on MDC and the responses I get IRL. I have nothing to hide. It's very frustrating.


The discrepancy is likely because the receptionist got just a snapshot of your life. Did you say, "I caught my son letting our dog lick his penis repeatedly and now he's still talking about it?" or did you go over the monologue, which by itself just sounds like a silly thing that a preschooler may say? What long-time posters here have is a long, sordid history of some really bad decisions with efforts in between to right the problems. I do think that you love your children and that you want to do what's right by them. I honestly think that you're not equipped to do that right now. I don't think that means your children should go into foster care, but I do think that if you could remove some of your disdain for social workers (who were only doing their *jobs* when they followed up on your mom's complaint), then perhaps you could see that your family could benefit from some of the things that social services can offer.

You seem to want to become stable, but you don't stay in one place more than a few months at a time. That's not stability. It's not good for your children. You need a realistic plan that you can follow through on.

You've said that your son is seeing people and has been, but you said a few months ago that you'd moved 3 hours away from your parents, which is where you used to live, right? So, are you driving your son 3 hours to see a pediatrician, a therapist, and other specialists? Did you move *back* to the place where you had so many problems before? Those are the kinds of questions that people here ask ourselves, and for some people, that comes out as anger at you for continuing to put your kids through more upheaval.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

> The discrepancy is likely because the receptionist got just a snapshot of your life. Did you say, "I caught my son letting our dog lick his penis repeatedly and now he's still talking about it?" or did you go over the monologue, which by itself just sounds like a silly thing that a preschooler may say?
> 
> I was talking about overall, not just the receptionist. My exact words to her, "I'm very concerned about some inappropriate behavior with my three year old. I'm not sure if it's sexual or not, but it concerns me because we have had issues in the past with this.' I then told her what he had done, skipping the 3 yr old monologue. But that comment was more about the overall vibe I get from people IRL vs here.
> 
> What long-time posters here have is a long, sordid history of some really bad decisions with efforts in between to right the problems. I do think that you love your children and that you want to do what's right by them. I honestly think that you're not equipped to do that right now. I don't think that means your children should go into foster care, but I do think that if you could remove some of your disdain for social workers (who were only doing their *jobs* when they followed up on your mom's complaint), then perhaps you could see that your family could benefit from some of the things that social services can offer.
> 
> *What services would those be? I'm not being snarky, I'm being serious. So far, I have obtained (of my own accord)*
> 
> *food stamps (flame away, I don't care, DP works 2 jobs and I work 1 and we still can use the help)*
> 
> *medicaid for the childre to access medical care, including mental health services.*
> 
> *play therapy for ds*
> 
> *occupational therapy for ds (he goes for another OT eval monday)*
> 
> *special ed services/eval/support through the public schools for ds (currently in diagnostic classroom with full time psychologist and behaviorist)*
> 
> *therapy for myself and for DP and I together. I did this for myself when dd was about 2 months old and I realized I had no feelings about her. It terrified me. I called every place in the phone book til I got someone to listen to me. It has been a lifesaver. I love her so much now. I"m about to cry just writing this because therapy and my therapist in particular has done SO SO SO much for me I can't even being to explain.*
> 
> *Psychiatrist for myself (zoloft, for PTSD and PPD)*
> 
> *neuropsych for ds (Asperger's dx)*
> 
> *developmental ped for ds*
> 
> *WIC for the kids and myself*
> 
> *In addition I take my children to places and events that not only put them in contact with caring and experience adults but also give them new experiences. like the farmer's market, story time at the library, family night at the beach or city park, arts and crafts at the book store, the "reading bus" a special preschool program they have here.*
> 
> *Is there some other resource social services can offer me that anyone with reasonable intelligence and motivation can't locate on their own*?
> 
> You seem to want to become stable, but you don't stay in one place more than a few months at a time. That's not stability. It's not good for your children. You need a realistic plan that you can follow through on.
> 
> *We were in the same place and were doing alright until I stupidly (as people here on MDC said!!) moved back in with my mother, with her subsequently calling CPS on me. That led to us *temporarily* moving away for about 6 weeks. That had to be done for my kids' safety. She was stalking us.*


----------



## junipermoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I'm sure I will get beaten up all over again for this, but when we were getting him out of teh bath tonight he made like he was going to the dog to do it again, and when I told him to stop he laughed and said, "I can't let the dog lick me? Can I let the dog poop on me? Can she do a fart on me? If she bites my pee pee off I'll put her in timeout and she'll cry." I have no idea what *that* little monologue meant, exactly, but it didn't sound sexual.


I would take this as a sign that he is processing the new information you and the therapist presented him with and is working through the experience with the dog and with your responses to it in a developmentally appropriate way. It is awesome that you were right there with him when he tried it again.

That's what I mean about "line of sight"...if you are there, then you can have not only a window into what is going on but also can help to mold and direct the experience in a natural, fluid way--instead of "catching" him at something after the fact and trying to make sense of it from that place.

By the way the way you explain this latest bathtub incident it does not personally strike me as sexually reactive/predatory...I mean, does it strike you that way? Because to me, the poop on me fart on me bite me and go to time out bit sounds really normative and indicative that he is indeed a member of the 3/4 age group more than anything else...I don't know that I would bring him to the ped over this latest incident...esp if you are already addressed it in session work with the therapist. personally I would just (ok third time in this thread I am saying this, sorry so redundant) keep him under your wing and supervised and keep up with the therapy.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *junipermoon*
> 
> I would take this as a sign that he is processing the new information you and the therapist presented him with and is working through the experience with the dog and with your responses to it in a developmentally appropriate way. It is awesome that you were right there with him when he tried it again.
> 
> That's what I mean about "line of sight"...if you are there, then you can have not only a window into what is going on but also can help to mold and direct the experience in a natural, fluid way--instead of "catching" him at something after the fact and trying to make sense of it from that place.
> 
> By the way the way you explain this latest bathtub incident it does not personally strike me as sexually reactive/predatory...I mean, does it strike you that way? Because to me, the poop on me fart on me bite me and go to time out bit sounds really normative and indicative that he is indeed a member of the 3/4 age group more than anything else...I don't know that I would bring him to the ped over this latest incident...esp if you are already addressed it in session work with the therapist. personally I would just (ok third time in this thread I am saying this, sorry so redundant) keep him under your wing and supervised and keep up with the therapy.


Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.


----------



## LynnS6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.


I would highly second this -- especially if he's on the autism spectrum (or even close), making connections about socially acceptable behavior might be a bit harder for him. He's also going to need a fair amount of repetition. Remember, 3-4 year olds don't learn too many things the first time around.

For any child whose under the age of about 5 or 6, addressing issues while something is happening is much better than after the fact (OK, even for older kids). The one exception is, of course, when they're in the middle of a meltdown, when it's impossible to address anything.


----------



## Magali

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> Junipermoon, this *the most helpful* post in this entire thread. your explanation makes perfect sense as far as addressing it while it is happening vs after it's already happened.


I was thinking the same thing. You know what OP, just big, big hugs to you and your babies.


----------



## Polliwog

Line of sight supervision, while difficult, is in everyone's best interest. I strongly agree with Junipermoon. It's a tool that foster parents, like myself, use to prevent things from happening and to help the child navigate appropriately in the world.


----------



## dairy2dogs

I also wouldn't take him to the ped over this last incident. I agree that it seemed pretty typical for the age. In fact I think that could re-inforce the behavior by giving it too much attention. Kids often do things because it gets a big reaction out of you.


----------



## 3xMama

nak

Just a thought to the OP. It is not uncommon or unheard of for 11 or 12 yr olds to sexually abusive younger kids, esp if the younger child is special needs. Am I saying that that is happening or has happened? No. I dont have enough info to come to that conclusion. I do have a friend, though, who grew up in a neighborhood like what you are describing and was sexually abused by an older child. The older child's family was family friends w/ my friend's family and her parents trusted him to care for her when they went out and played in large groups of kids as you described. He obviously didn't. I knew a woman a few yrs back who's job was to be a lawyer for kids, usually around 12-15 yrs old, who were accused of sexually abusing younger children. Some were innocent. Many weren't.

Again, Im not sayin this is happening. You, OP, probably even know this. I just feel that I would be remiss if I did not say it.

As for the original issue, I personally think it sounds like iy hapened once on accident, it felt good so he went for it. I think a small discussion on it followed up by prevention is the best course of action. Basically, I agree w/ what you've done esp w the intervention that happened after his last bath. So I wouldnt worry too much about it and just do my best to prevent it from happening again. Good luck!!


----------



## crunchy_mommy

One more 'agree' to not taking him to the pedi for this last incident. If anything, it shows that perhaps his behavior was more 'developmentally normal' than many of us originally suspected.

I had to rehome our dog for my DS's safety. It was incredibly hard & I miss him like crazy still but it did take a HUGE stress out of our already stressful lives. So it's something to keep in the back of your mind if problems continue.

The reason people have dug into old posts is just to confirm their own recollections, I think. I have seen a pattern with your posts and I did look at your old posts briefly just to make sure I didn't have you mixed up with someone else or anything.

The pattern I've seen is that you are constantly in chaotic situations. And I really feel for you, because I've been there, though fortunately not quite as extreme because I didn't have kids involved at the time. I've been physically, sexually, emotionally, financially abused, fled from one bad situation to another, lost myself to psychiatric disorders, etc. I think it's easy to look from the outside & point blame but much harder when you're actually in a situation to see that you have choices, and to get out of it. I will readily admit that before I was anorexic, I thought anorexics were crazy and someone should just make them eat. Before I was in an abusive relationship, I thought the victims were 'weak' and not making good choices. Now, having been through so many horrible situations myself, I can see that victims are truly victims, not people complicit in their own abuse (or disorder or whatever). What moves someone from 'victim' to 'survivor' can be so many different things but IMO one thing that clearly delineates the two is that the 'survivor' has not only survived but also recognizes she has choices. That's what I want for you -- to see that you have choices, to see that you and your family are 'survivors', not just victims. I may be wrong but from reading just the posts in this thread, I see signs that you still feel you are a victim. You are stronger than that and you are making so many great choices for your family (and maybe a few not-so-great ones). No one here is out to get you, though I can see why you'd feel that way, and many of the responses are worded a little harshly. But I interpret the harshness as caring people just not quite sure how to help you. We all just care about you and especially your children. It's hard to see things that aren't just isolated 'normal' incidents but what may be a pattern of something more -- maybe it's abuse, maybe it's ASD, maybe it's something else, I don't know, but the pattern is there and we all just want to make sure you SEE the pattern and are addressing it.


----------



## beenmum

I have a background in child development and Crisis intervention and work with kids deemed at risk. All of which this child is and yet everything is being down played by this mother.

Nothing I said was rude, it was the same concerns professionals would ask.

The notion that any of us would want to see a video of this child crying and hanging off his mums legs is absurd. It was said strictly to make me feel shame for daring to suggest that there may have been a concrete reason WHY he behaves this way. B/c we ALL just must want to see this boy being ripped kicking and screaming from his mother b/c we DARED to point out that she may have some responsibility for her sons behaviours.

Its clear that there are major denial issues. And until those issues of denial are addressed this boy is in danger of developing increasing disturbing behaviours...both to himself and to other children.

I said I was right, b/c she immedicately treid to make me sound like I was blinded by irrationality and bias. I said that he had probably seen something and was told that I was just jumping on her back...but then flat out said that she "knew" that he had probably seen something inappropriate....but still insists she has no idea WHY he does the things he does.

Put all of her posts together and there is a level of denial. A level of dissasocation between her concerns and then her ability to rationalizise them.

A pedi office that laughs at a child who has a dog sexually masturbate him, exclaims intrest in having the dog excrete on him/fart on him etc... should be shut down. I have never ever heard of ANY of those behaviours being waved off as "typical" boy behaviour.

And I really cant buy into the notion that this is exactly what this pedi office did.

I have worked with probably 500 children. And none of them displayed those behaviours as "typical" boy development. And any profesional that does....makes me concerned about his professionality.

And having that discussion with the secretary instead of the ped doesnt make a l;ick of sense. She would have been fired instantly for doling out prosfessional opinion when she is not a registaered ped, nor is liscenced to make those assumptions.

I am not blindly ganging up on this women. I am recognizing that this is seriously disturbing behaviour.


----------



## beenmum

It wasnt meant to be harsh, It was meant to point out that that bit of info would have explained alot about his behaviour and probabaly woudl have avoided alot of these questions. Had she come out and said

"He could have seen this while we were watching Something R rated on TV" Would have probably made most of us say "Ooops, yes that has happened to us before too. That makes more sense then saying you didnt know why he was behaving this way"

Why keep insisting that you dont know why these behaviours are occuring when you have a reasonable explaination?

Comming here asking for suggestions for several serious behaviours, but them not accepting reasonable explainations on Why they may be happening makes no sense.

If she is open to help, then recognizing that you may have accidently contributed to such behaviours is the most important step.

Edited to remove the word Pron b/c I missed where she confirmed it wasnt pron so I apologise for saying it was.


----------



## beenmum

I think you have offered so much helpful advice.

Tho I do have to say, that both those behaviours (excreting and fart) can be sexual in origion. That is not typical behaviour for a 3 year old. Again NOT saying that he has been abused. Just that adding this senario to the others mentioned....raises the likilyhood that it was sexuality associative.


----------



## beenmum

I agree with everything you have said and you made some really excellent points. Thank you for that.


----------



## PoppyMama

Pees don't schedule their own appts. What she called about doesn't sound like an emergency and the idea that the receptionist should be fired is ridiculous. I have three boys and both of the boys who are old enough to have found their penis have embarrassed the hell out of me multiple times. My toddlers latest way to drive me crazy is to take off his diaper and if im too slow and our dog is.here he will try to sniff and lick his butt which my son thinks is hilarious. My son has also tried to grab the dog inappropriately. It is not sexually deviant at this point just inappropriate and there is no end to the poop on you fart humor. If you really don't see any of that behavior im shocked. The ops ds is seeing at least three specialists how in the world can you say she is minimizing I think the difference between her and a lot of other parents is that she knows she doesn't have all the parenting tools so she second guesses her reaction. She has stated that in the past.

The pork comment was uncalled for.

**my autocorrect is behaving annoyingly. I have to run out but I will be back to correct.


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> I have a background in child development and Crisis intervention and work with kids deemed at risk. All of which this child is and yet everything is being down played by this mother.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I said I was right, b/c she immedicately treid to make me sound like I was blinded by irrationality and bias. I said that he had probably seen something and was told that I was just jumping on her back...but then flat out said that she "knew" that he had probably seen something inappropriate....but still insists she has no idea WHY he does the things he does.
> 
> All that suggests to me is that it hadn't occurred to her that simply seeing something like that on tv would be enough to put the idea in his head (this is re: the Barbie incident, which this thread actually isn't about, anyway).
> 
> Put all of her posts together and there is a level of denial. A level of dissasocation between her concerns and then her ability to rationalizise them.
> 
> A pedi office that laughs at a child who has a dog sexually masturbate him, exclaims intrest in having the dog excrete on him/fart on him etc... should be shut down. I have never ever heard of ANY of those behaviours being waved off as "typical" boy behaviour.
> 
> Seriously? It sounded pretty normal to me. Three-year old boys, ime, are frequently very, very interested in both their penises and farts/poop/etc. That whole monologue actually made me kind of smile at how goofy little kids are about this kind of stuff. I told dh about the OP, and he laughed, and said, "sounds like a boy".
> 
> And I really cant buy into the notion that this is exactly what this pedi office did.
> 
> Well, if you think the OP is lying, then why bother responding at all? She could just as easily have made up the whole post.
> 
> I have worked with probably 500 children. And none of them displayed those behaviours as "typical" boy development.
> 
> How many of those children were at risk, and how many weren't? Quite honestly, I find that people who work with children with a lot of issues are quite often not the experts on "normal", typical behaviour that they think they are, for various reasons. Working with a lot of at risk children does have an impact on one's perceptions of children who aren't at risk, as well.
> 
> And any profesional that does....makes me concerned about his professionality.
> 
> And having that discussion with the secretary instead of the ped doesnt make a l;ick of sense. She would have been fired instantly for doling out prosfessional opinion when she is not a registaered ped, nor is liscenced to make those assumptions.
> 
> So, it's not okay for the secretary (and was it a secretary, or a nurse?) to say "you'll last the weekend, mom" and inquire if this is OP's first boy, and she should be fired. But, it's okay for you to assume that you have a better handle on this than any of the team of professionals who have been working with OP and her ds? How does that work, exactly?
> 
> I am not blindly ganging up on this women. I am recognizing that this is seriously disturbing behaviour.
> 
> The dog thing? Not so much. It's totally inappropriate, and it needs to be stopped, for various reasons (just thinking about what would happen if the dog nipped makes me feel ill, and that's not even the most important one, just the most immediate). But, it's not "seriously disturbing" to me. It's a little boy who has discovered something that feels really good, and also has trouble figuring out social boundaries.
> 
> Oh - and you also mentioned "porn" again. OP has clarified that she wasn't talking about porn. That really sounded like you're determined to paint OP in the worst possible light.


OP: I'm thinking of you and wishing you the best. You've done a lot in the last couple of years, and I really think that cutting your parents out was the single most important thing you could do, as far as trying to establish some stability for yourself and your kids. Your mom was/is a pro at keeping you off balance and making you doubt yourself.


----------



## beenmum

. I read that she said it wasnt necessary to bring the child in...and then laughed it off as typical behaviour. Unless that was the peds advice...she should be fired. She would be here.

Forgive me, but honestly I have read most of the OP's posts over the forums, and I do see that there are some serious concerns going on in this childs life. Too many red flags to ignore.

So why should we not point it out to her? I dont agree with ganging up on her, or jumping her. But there are signs that this womens life could be SO much easier if by doing things differently. Shes asking for advice, should it not be given b/c the subject matter is uncomfy?

I'm not trying to be harsh, thats not my intention.


----------



## beenmum

Thank you for pointing out that it wasnt porn, I honestly missed that in her post to me, and I fixed it with an apology in my post.

I do have to ask tho, if one works with at risk kids, shoudlnt they be more used to and more credible in understanding those behaviours then someone who doesnt see it often?

We dont pull these behaviours out of thin air to hurt mothers who are trying hard to do the right things. However we also dont ignore those behaviours BECAUSE the mother is trying hard to do the right thing.

These behavioural red flags exist b/c they have been proven TO exist. Not b/c we hold personal vendettas against the parents.

I never said I had a better handle.

I said when taking EVERYTHING she has posted, it raises tons of red flags. I never said I know jack about HER family. I said the BEHAVIOURS were classic signs of either sexual abuse or inappropriate sexual exposure.

I can not create these posts out of thin air. She posted these things. I commented on them. I neither created them nor commented that I felt better able to form an opinion then anyone else on here.


----------



## waiting2bemommy

I think what Storm Bride was saying is that people who are used to seeing children who are at risk and who have definitely had some issues, can have a tendency to see something wrong with everything. Because in an abused child it *would* mean something else, but in a normal child it might not.

I'm not saying this is or is not the case with my ds....as I have stated MANY times already, I simply DO NOT KNOW. But this is a common phenomenon with people in the healthcare/behavioral/mental health field, according to friends of mine who are in college for psychology.


----------



## beenmum

Okay. I am sorry if I offended you.

But after doing 3 years of psyche classes, I have never ever heard of those behaviours being normal...maybe if it was ONE of those behaviours and not a grouping of them it would be.

However, I didnt mean to imply that your not doing a good job. Sometimes us parents get too close to a situation and are blinded by it.

You are obviouly not since you readily admit that you just dont know. Which is very open minded and wise of you.

I was honestly trying to be helpful, I obviously wasnt and I apologise for that,


----------



## marinak1977

OP, I do think that your DS may be too young to hang out with the 11 year olds without you watching. Bigger kids can frequently be mean to the littler ones, they often don't understand the power and long term consequences of their actions and they can be physically or emotionally abusive. Unless your DS has a big kid that looks out for him and will protect him and keep him away from trouble AND you can trust that kid to be there it is just too unpredictable of a situation. I wouldn't be comfortable with my DS out in that situation.
Honestly, the barbie thing could've been easily something learned from the bigger kids (preteen boys can go through a really crude phase as part of their maturation) but he wouldn't know that it wasn't a socially appropriate thing to do. Heck, a big kid could've even told him that's what you're supposed to do.









And to those who suggest rehoming the dog - I'd like to point out that the dog isn't showing any aggression, (rather it's probably being affective) and a dog that's licking is very unlikely to nip. The dog hasn't done anything to endanger the child. Rather, the OP can continue separating her DS from the dog and reinforcing that he is not to let the dog lick his privates and that it is inappropriate.
OP, hugs to you and healing thoughts. I'm sorry your life is in such turmoil, but I'm glad you're constantly striving to get help and improve things.


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## waiting2bemommy

I just want to clarify to all the posters metiong ds palying outside, that we moved from that neighborhood in November. Where we live now he is not allowed to go outside without me. I think once when dd was asleep I stood in the apartment door and let him go down the stairs and let the dog out of the main building door to go pee, but that's it. Totally different setup here. I've had kids invite him to play, but I don't know them or there parents and i"m not comfortable with it in *this* situation.

Just so ya'll know....it's not a free-for-all. I just felt VERY comfortable in my old neighborhood. marinak, it was 1 11 year old (the oldest child of my friend) who watched ds. He was very good about walking ds all the way to the front door and "delivering" him to me if he scraped his knee, ro when they came back from the park. He would come and ask me if ds was allowed to eat this or that from the ice cream truck (since ds has a red 40 allergy).

I know people are picturing me just turning a 2 year old loose on the street and it just wasn't like that, at all. In spite of all the problems in the neighborhood, people did look out for each other's kids. I have so many pics of the kids sitting on the stoop eating ice cream or doing chalk, or riding bikes in the driveway.


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## hildare

i personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts.' just because one studied something in college, does not qualify one to make really large leaps into OP's life. Especially since she's telling us that she IS taking her child to doctors, social workers, etc. and seeking expert help. there's a fine line between offering advice when asked for it, and being judgey (and classist in some of the posts-- like talking about OP's "instability." not all of us have the luxury of owning a home or being able to maintain employment in our place of choice, you know, that's kind of offensive to me personally)

OP, I think that you're trying to do your best for your kids, that's pretty obvious to me. In my opinion, the dog incident isn't totally normal, nor is it an abnormal thing. I think you've gotten some good advice about 'line of sight,' and that's really going to be good for both you and ds.

there's no 'sexual abuse test' out there, and you know.. you might not ever know exactly. all you can do is keep on keeping on, be aware that bad things happen, and address issues as they come up. i don't know what might or might not have happened but you CAN control what does & WILL happen, you know? i hate that you're having these difficulties and it seems like you're struggling with lots of worries.







i am also sorry that you seem to be the brunt of lots of criticism when you were asking for support.


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## beenmum

personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts

Um, I hate to sound arguemenative...but that IS what it makes some of us.

A doctor who spends years in classes IS an expert.

How does one become an expert w/o taking years of classes to become one???


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## Chamomile Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts
> 
> Um, I hate to sound arguemenative...but that IS what it makes some of us.
> 
> A doctor who spends years in classes IS an expert.
> 
> How does one become an expert w/o taking years of classes to become one???


College gives theory. _Practice_ brings expertise.


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## beenmum

Yep. Had lots and lots of that too. Working with kids at risk for 18 years. Why would you think that those of us who offer opinions havent? I dont offer opinions lightly. I dont offer opinions on areas I have no expereince in.

How long does someone have to be working in a feild to be considered "exepereinced?"


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## AttunedMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> Yep. Had lots and lots of that too. Working with kids at risk for 18 years. Why would you think that those of us who offer opinions havent? *I dont offer opinions lightly.* I dont offer opinions on areas I have no expereince in.
> 
> How long does someone have to be working in a feild to be considered "exepereinced?"


Um? The whole 'porn' fiasco is indicative that you DO offer opinions lightly/leap to conclusions.

The fact that you say you don't, also shows me that your reflexivity is whack.


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## graceomalley

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hildare*
> 
> i personally think it's amusing how a few years of college classes can all of a sudden seem to make some of us 'experts.'


I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.

But, since people want to nitpick ...

I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals). I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert. I stand by it. If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *graceomalley*
> 
> I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.
> 
> But, since people want to nitpick ...
> 
> I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals). I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert. I stand by it. If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.


Seriously? You'd be required to report the dog thing?? Why?


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## insidevoice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Seriously? You'd be required to report the dog thing?? Why?


Because it really is a big red flag waving. It's hypersexualized behavior that would warrant investigation to make sure it really only was exploration, and to not make that call would be negligent on the part of a mandated reporter.

OP please consider rehoming the dog, at the very least, and ensure constant line of sight supervision for your child. He can't learn what is and isn't appropriate behavior without instant guidance from you- after the fact is not going to work with a child who is clearly struggling as he is. Kids with any AS/SPD 'stuff' have no boundaries of their own. They don't learn them like "normal" kids will, and they need to have that guidance LONG after most kids their age need it. You will probably need LOS supervision with him until he is well into elementary school. Given that he IS a hypersexualized child- for whatever reason- you also need to be hypervigilant since he has a built in victim in a younger sibling.

Your mother may or may not have been overprotective- that doesn't matter, because for this child, being an overprotective mom isn't going to be enough. You need to go even further than that to help him, to protect him, and to protect your family.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *insidevoice*
> 
> Because it really is a big red flag waving. It's hypersexualized behavior that would warrant investigation to make sure it really only was exploration, and to not make that call would be negligent on the part of a mandated reporter.


If this is hypersexualized behaviour, then most boys I've ever met are hypersexualized. I've personally never seen a boy do this, but I've seen a lot of perfectly "normal" three year old boys, and they're all pretty freaking interested in their penises and making their penises feel good. This is something I'd put a stop to, for sure - but it (by "it", I mean seeking out something that had felt good in the past) seems like a pretty normal response to me.


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## joensally

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> If this is hypersexualized behaviour, then most boys I've ever met are hypersexualized. I've personally never seen a boy do this, but I've seen a lot of perfectly "normal" three year old boys, and they're all pretty freaking interested in their penises and making their penises feel good. This is something I'd put a stop to, for sure - but it (by "it", I mean seeking out something that had felt good in the past) seems like a pretty normal response to me.


Context is everything. Given the complicated history, it's a different story than a child with no history incidentally discovering that it felt good and repeating it.

I'm also a mandated reporter with two degrees and years of field experience. I remember being a young person in university, and I sure hope no one weighed my casual advice over that of the licensed professionals actually involved, or a diverse group of experienced moms who are at least in agreement that mom and child need support. I in fact don't have an opinion about whether the behaviour is hypersexualized or not, because I think the "if feels good, repeat, repeat" three year old explanation works too. There are so many variables at play for the OP and her family.

I will repeat, however, my concerns that a three year old has been diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD, both diagnoses which are usually held until a child is 7-8+ - this makes me question the clinicians involved as this goes against widely used clinical standards. I am concerned about OP's child receiving appropriate support for his developmental needs.

waiting2bemommy, I wish you all the best and I hope you and your family are getting the support you need IRL.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *joensally*
> 
> Context is everything. Given the complicated history, it's a different story than a child with no history incidentally discovering that it felt good and repeating it.
> 
> I agree about context, but the impression I got from the post I was responding to what that the isolated incident in the OP was grounds for a report, which was what I was addressing.
> 
> I'm also a mandated reporter with two degrees and years of field experience. I remember being a young person in university, and I sure hope no one weighed my casual advice over that of the licensed professionals actually involved, or a diverse group of experienced moms who are at least in agreement that mom and child need support. I in fact don't have an opinion about whether the behaviour is hypersexualized or not, because I think the "if feels good, repeat, repeat" three year old explanation works too. There are so many variables at play for the OP and her family.
> 
> I will repeat, however, my concerns that a three year old has been diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD, both diagnoses which are usually held until a child is 7-8+ - this makes me question the clinicians involved as this goes against widely used clinical standards. I am concerned about OP's child receiving appropriate support for his developmental needs.
> 
> waiting2bemommy, I wish you all the best and I hope you and your family are getting the support you need IRL.


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## insidevoice

A one time thing with the dog wouldn't necessarily be reportable, but when you couple that with the bigger picture, I'm very surprised there haven't been many reports filed by the professionals working with this family if the OP discloses to them all that she has here. Particularly given a previous complaint of sexual abuse- and the fact that the provider is said to be aware of that history- a call should have been made. Maybe it is a coincidence that this complaint was filed and this boy is flying enough red flags pointing to the behavior. Maybe. It isn't up to a mandated reporter to decide whether there is or isn't abuse, it is up to that person to say there is a suggestion of abuse that really needs further examination, and within context, this boy deserves that.

Would I make the call on just the behavior with the dog? In a single moment snapshot, no. After a brief discussion with Mom relating anything more of the many things she has disclosed here- absolutely. Couple the previous incident (a year ago? so a 2 yo was aware enough of the technicalities of sex to use a Barbie in that way? Yikes!) and yes, the red flags are waving.

I have sensory seeking kids with absolutely no normal boundaries. I know about kids who find something inappropriate to fill that need, and I can grasp that part of this little boy's reality. There is more going on with this kid than just that if you look at the big picture and the posting history. You simply can not have a positive outcome for a kid with the diagnoses this child has (I also wonder about why those would be given to a child his age- PDD-NOS would be more on target for now) with the constant chaos and instability he has had going on around him throughout his very short life.

SUBMIT


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## junipermoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *graceomalley*
> 
> I don't feel the need to sign any of my posts with my qualifications so that they're more valid than those of anyone else.
> 
> But, since people want to nitpick ...
> 
> I have 2 degrees and nearly 15 years of experience in my field (including university research and articles published in international journals). I am a mandated reporter and I train others in this area, so yes - in my opinion my advice was that of an expert. I stand by it. If a person came to me IRL with the story in the OP I would be legally required to report it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *graceomalley*
> 
> Take him to a pediatrician right now. Get an emergency appointment. Have him assessed for other signs of sexual abuse. Get him to a safe place (ie a child therapist) and get this off the internet. Do you realise how serious your post is?


But your advice is delivered in a bombastic way and ignores that the op's son just went through a dss related evaluation for sexual abuse that included a medical exam, and is currently in therapy.

Also just to be clear what is your area of expertise? You have 2 phds? Who do you train and under what credentials? I am curious because it is hard to pick up from your post and if you are willing to say your opinion is an expert one I think the op deserves to know specifically in what areas you have trained and practiced.

I also think, regardless of your credentials, that it is impossible to offer an expert opinion on a matter such as this over the internet--experienced, yes, if you explain what that experience is, but "expert opinion" denotes something more and generally is offered in the context of actual evaluation. I am no expert at all, but I am in grad school for psychology and that much I know...and what I also know, though it is off topic, is that experts disagree all the time. maybe you have read some of the university level research on diagnostic inconsistencies among seasoned experts in mental health? It is wild! Drives home the idea that notions like "mental health" and "expert" are constructed at the level of culture and changeable across time and place.

The OP has to swim in all of this and do her best by her son in the midst of it, and she came here posting willingly. Regardless of the backgrounds we all have I guess I feel like the OP has got to be stressed enough as it is. When you mix up the term "expert" with surface, less than sensitive commentary on what she must do to find safety for her child, that makes me want to chime in and ask for clarification.


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