# Natural or epidural



## justice'smom (Jun 5, 2007)

I'm curious how many of you are planning for a natural birth and how many are planning for epidural? If your planning for natural why? If your planning for epidural why?

We are planning for a natural homebirth. My reasons why are because for us it's the right thing and because we had ds 2 at home and it was an amazing birth. I'm looking forward to trying some new things this time around. I'm thinking of having an acupuncturist on hand and think I might like to have a water birth this time.

I look forward to hearing from you ladies.


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## dinan6 (Aug 30, 2008)

I am planning a natural homebirth, my 4th baby first homebirth.... I had a natural with my first daughter 14 years ago, and ended up with an epidural and c-section with my son 9 years ago, my last birth my dd was natural and it was wonderful. I remember when they gave me the epidural with my son and how I hated that feeling having no control. When they took me in for the c-section and I think gave me more or maybe it just was affecting me more but I could not breath and felt so disconnected from my body..I felt so lost. So, natural it is for me.. I felt so good after my daughters birth, so strong, helped heal me emotoinally from my sons c-section. I think it helped me feel more confident as a woman and mother...I am so strong, stronger than I knew... I also love being able to move during labor, dance around, sway my hips, I'm very active with labor..I love being able to do that....


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

I planed (and achieved) a totally natural home birth. Next one will be the same. I didn't want DS to be born with any drugs in his system at all and I figured I just needed to tough it out. Being at home really helped though. If I had been in the hospital strapped to a bed, I would have had the drugs...no way I could have done it. I needed to walk around, eat and ultimately not be messed with.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I am planning to go with the epidural. My main reason is fear of the cascade of interventions & ending with a c-section. Plus, I am sure my body can do this!


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## sarahlynne (Jan 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
I am planning to go with the epidural. My main reason is fear of the cascade of interventions & ending with a c-section. Plus, I am sure my body can do this!

forgive me if i missunderstood this, but you are GETTING an epidural to AVOID the cascade of interventions? An epidural isn't even at the begining of the cascade, you are well into it at that point - iv, coninuous monitoring and confinement to bed at the least. Please explain.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

This will be #3, having an epidural has never been a consideration for me. Course it's also not possible at home.







I'm a huge fan of water birth and will be planning another one.


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## njbeachgirl (Oct 8, 2006)

I would highly recommend the water birth, I just had a water birth at home and it was great.


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## dayiscoming2006 (Jun 12, 2007)

I went with an epidural last time and it was the wrong decision. It just wasn't necessary and nothing felt right about it. I didn't get it until I was already 6 cm. I didn't think I could handle the pain even though I knew I could have and the nurse was trying to make me not say anything when pain came. She told me to just relax and to not be loud because it won't do you any good or something along those lines. I would have liked to punch her.

I will be having a home birth this time if all goes well. So no epidural this time.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

I will be going with the epidural. I have never had the desire to go natural. I know all the risks, but I feel that it is the right decision for the birth that I want. Last time, I got it after 16 hours of labor and ds was born 4 hours later. I never had any side effects and felt to push when I needed to. Aside from having to be induced(pre-eclampsia), the birth went great. I hope that the next one goes as well.


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## polishprinsezz (Dec 31, 2006)

natural is definately the best way to go. i like to be in charge of my own body. i like knowing that i am able to to do this the way it is meant to be. i can understand getting an epidural for the first birth when it is really long and dragged out. i do pity those who purposely choose an unnatural birth before they even go into labor. interventions are not always the best choice and should be used for real emergancies. feeling your birth is not nessessarely a terrible thing.


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## ferretbees (Feb 4, 2008)

I planned a natural hospital birth with my first and ended up requesting an epidural at 5cm - after 72 hours of prodromal labor and very little sleep. It was a great relief. Yet, I'm planning a homebirth for the next one, no chance of an epidural there.

I believe that natural is the way to go - however, I'm not in the position to insist on a natural birth for anyone else. And certainly, would not judge any woman for requesting an epidural.


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## Haselnuss (Sep 20, 2008)

4th baby, 4th homebirth.
My first was really difficult, but I got through it, and after that I felt like I could do anything.
It's gotten quicker and easier each time.


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## hunterofkyle (Jul 12, 2005)

We're planning a home waterbirth. This is my fourth baby and will be my third unmedicated delivery. There was nothing horrible about my epidural birth with my first baby, but the euphoria and recovery from a natural birth is unreal and I want to experience it again and again. Waterbirth definitely made a huge difference in tolerating labor. My last delivery was as close to pain-free as I could have hoped for and I am sure it had to do with the shower and birth tub.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

This will be my third birth and third planned homebirth. I've never had any pharmocological pain relief....the water was relief enough for me.

Even if I was at the hospital I could never let them stick me with an epidural needle.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

I hate the term "natural birth" I am planning on zero to minimal intervention birth. (so no epi







) It seems (here comes that word) natural. I am more afraid of the needles and the beeping and the prodding then I am of the pain of labour.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahlynne* 
forgive me if i missunderstood this, but you are GETTING an epidural to AVOID the cascade of interventions? An epidural isn't even at the begining of the cascade, you are well into it at that point - iv, coninuous monitoring and confinement to bed at the least. Please explain.

Wow - did I ever miswrite! I totally meant without!!!


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## AlexisT (May 6, 2007)

In the right circumstances, an epi can avoid more interventions--but that would be a very individual thing.

I'm not sure, honestly--my ideal would be to play it by ear. If I knew I could have an epidural or spinal without trouble, I'd be inclined to stick with that, but I've had 2 consultant anesthetists wince at my spine. They couldn't do a CSE for my section last time and had to do an epidural and wait (it wasn't such an emergency that they needed GA but they wanted to be able to operate quickly as she was showing signs of distress). So I have to factor in being at increased risk for anesthesia problems or a general, neither of which I want--or I could have the epidural in labor and make sure someone good does it.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

I am not pregnant but I have had a nearly intervention free homebirth (had AROM at about 7cm) and a c/s for breech. I will never stop regretting consenting to surgery for my 2nd birth, I laboured without pharamcological assistance to pushing stage and had to resist pushing to give them time to operate. stupid. My ncb was fantastic and I would never willingly opt for that horrible sensation of absent legs, nor miss out on experiencing the power of what my body can do.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:

miss out on experiencing the power of what my body can do.
I did experience the power of what my body can do. I just didn't experience the pain. Birth is not about the pain. I will never understand why people feel it is ok to think someone missed out on birth or that their birth was more special or amazing than someone who had an epidural. I would never dismiss someone who had an unmedicated birth, but for some reason it is ok to do it if you had the epidural.

Quote:

i do pity those who purposely choose an unnatural birth before they even go into labor. interventions are not always the best choice and should be used for real emergancies. feeling your birth is not nessessarely a terrible thing.
Save your pity for people who really need it. I am now 9 weeks pregnant with my second child. I will be opting for the epi. I did the same with my first. I did feel my birth. I felt the joy. I felt the love. I felt the awesome power of knowing my baby was coming into the world. I do not feel that pain would have enhanced any of that and I think it is insulting to insinuate that a medicated birth is an unfeeling one. You feel many many things.

I think everyone should get the birth they want. If someone wants an unmedicated birth, I think that that is what they should get. If someone wants a medicated birth, they should get it. They should also be able to get them without the judgement and without someone telling them that they are not having the right birth. Birth is such an intimate, personal experience and no one should be put down or pitied because they go a different way than someone else.


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## Nautical (Mar 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 
I hate the term "natural birth" I am planning on zero to minimal intervention birth. (so no epi







) It seems (here comes that word) natural. I am more afraid of the needles and the beeping and the prodding then I am of the pain of labour.

Me too! The thought of a needle makes me want to run and hide in my closet.


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## Nautical (Mar 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tndixiemom* 
I did experience the power of what my body can do. I just didn't experience the pain. Birth is not about the pain. I will never understand why people feel it is ok to think someone missed out on birth or that their birth was more special or amazing than someone who had an epidural. I would never dismiss someone who had an unmedicated birth, but for some reason it is ok to do it if you had the epidural.

Save your pity for people who really need it. I am now 9 weeks pregnant with my second child. I will be opting for the epi. I did the same with my first. I did feel my birth. I felt the joy. I felt the love. I felt the awesome power of knowing my baby was coming into the world. I do not feel that pain would have enhanced any of that and I think it is insulting to insinuate that a medicated birth is an unfeeling one. You feel many many things.

I think everyone should get the birth they want. If someone wants an unmedicated birth, I think that that is what they should get. If someone wants a medicated birth, they should get it. They should also be able to get them without the judgement and without someone telling them that they are not having the right birth. Birth is such an intimate, personal experience and no one should be put down or pitied because they go a different way than someone else.

As for the first comment, she was refering to having a c/s.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tndixiemom* 
I did experience the power of what my body can do. I just didn't experience the pain. Birth is not about the pain. I will never understand why people feel it is ok to think someone missed out on birth or that their birth was more special or amazing than someone who had an epidural. I would never dismiss someone who had an unmedicated birth, but for some reason it is ok to do it if you had the epidural.

I was at no time dismissing an epidural birth for those who choose it. What I did say is that *I* would not choose it. And having done labour and birth *both* ways (well, I didn't push my 2nd baby out, but I did labour up to that point, with an epi at the end while they were prepping for surgery), I can tell you honestly that an epidural removes more sensation than just the pain. And for me, the pain was no big deal, and the other physical sensations that go away with an epidural are important, so for me it's not a worthwhile trade. I'm sorry you feel so defensive, I am not in any way judgemental about other peoples' informed birth choices and regret that you got that from my post.

Quote:

I think everyone should get the birth they want. If someone wants an unmedicated birth, I think that that is what they should get. If someone wants a medicated birth, they should get it. They should also be able to get them without the judgement and without someone telling them that they are not having the right birth. Birth is such an intimate, personal experience and no one should be put down or pitied because they go a different way than someone else.
Yep. We're on the same page. I was forced into a medicated labour and surgical birth when I needed ncb. I was robbed. It is a horrible thing to have someone else's birth forced upon you, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.


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## justice'smom (Jun 5, 2007)

Thanks for all your replies ladies. I have to say if it were not for us doing a home birth it would be very hard for me not to ask for the epidural. In the hospital you can't walk around and move and that helps a lot with the pain of labor. It would be hard to not ask for the epidural too since it's right there.


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## kaylasmommy (Sep 9, 2008)

I planned a homebirth and luckily was able to birth my daughter like planned at home without being transferred to a hospital..I had a 4 hour pushing phase, and if I was in the hospital, I would most definitely been taken to th OR for a C-section. I am so happy I was able to stay home...i wouldn't want it any other way.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

IMO, getting an epi by choice isn't just about the birth that the mother wants but the effects that it has on the baby and the major effects it can have on the mother which would potentially destroy the bonding, nursing and nurturing relationship between her and the baby.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr.../epidural.html


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## justice'smom (Jun 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janasmama* 
IMO, getting an epi by choice isn't just about the birth that the mother wants but the effects that it has on the baby and the major effects it can have on the mother which would potentially destroy the bonding, nursing and nurturing relationship between her and the baby.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr.../epidural.html

I get that, really I do, but when you go to a dr. whom you trust and they tell you it's okay, it gets a little confusing. Besides the fact that I hear women say all the time well many other women do it and they are okay. Sometimes there just isn't much you can say or do, but we do need to make sure we are supporting each other. I have two sister-in-laws that are pregnant and due either on my due date or two days after and they already have their minds made up. One thought of doing a homebirth, but now that she's pregnant I think she has changed her mind. Actually the whole reason I asked the question was to get a feel for why people make the choices they do. I was scared out of my wits end with my first son. I had no dought I was going to do epi, but honestly we didn't have good insurance and I had no idea how we were going to pay for a hospital birth. Then a friend mentioned to me a homebirth, which honestly sounded like it would have to be so much more expensive. I decided to look into it and I realized I knew nothing about birth before, but once I did I wanted to do a homebirth. Sadly it didn't work out because my water was broken for two days with little progression. He was born on the third day and it was actually an okay birth, but I knew I wanted to try for the homebirth again and was able to birth my second son at home as I will be trying to do again this time. People don't see the beauty in birth anymore. I have had it both ways and I can say there is something so beautiful about going natural and in your own home. All that being said, I still think we should support each other. If I knew how to change my sil minds, trust me I would, but I can't. So, I'm going to stand by them for whatever decisions they make. It's hard not to judge, but it's not really my place to do so.


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## annanicole (Dec 18, 2007)

you know what's funny, for me not having or having an epidural never played into my decision. I didn't want to give birth in a hospital I wanted to have my baby at home or at a birthing center so that decision ruled an epidural out for me.

The thing I enjoyed about NOT having an epidural ( I can't go under general anesthesia so for my joint surgeries I am given and epidural and valium)
1) I gave birth in a hottub in a squat.
2) I showered about 35 minutes after birth.
3) No epidural headache
4) no tingling sensation as the nerves came back

Things I would have enjoyed with an epidural
1) less stress on my husband
2) a less frantic state at one point during transition I felt so completey anxious and out of control and that resounded with me for a few days after birth

So for me I feel there is good and bad with an epidural. this little one will be natural at a birth center again, so I guess for me the birth experience outweighs the positives of an epidural birth.


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## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

I planned - and had - a totally natural VBAC birth. Honestly, I never considered an epidural, nor did it ever cross my mind to ask for anything for pain when I was in labor at the hospital. I had great labor support (my mom, a CNM), and it was great. Reasons? I knew I could do it. I wanted the experience. I wanted to feel the powerful feeling of having a baby with no help other than some great support.

Honestly, it was the hardest thing I've ever done - and worth every minute of it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat!! SOOOO worth it!


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

DH and I area planning a non medicated vaginal birth. The thought of trying to hold still while someone shoves a needle in my spine and then a catheter up my bladder freaks me out sooo much more than a 10lb baby shooting out my body.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

We're having a homebirth, so unless I transfer an epidural is obviously out of the question. I'll admit I'm more than a little worried about the pain, especially since I'm told I have a low pain threshold. But every female ancestor that I know of has had a successful unmedicated childbirth, so I'm pretty sure I can too.

I don't want the added recovery time that an epidural brings, I don't want to risk an epidural fever and the additional interventions that are "necessary" when one occurs (namely, forced IV antibiotics and a spinal tap for my poor baby). Also hospitals just skeeve me out in general. They're filthy, germy places that should (in my humble, layman's opinion) be avoided unless you have to be there. My body is healthy and my baby is too, so I don't have to be there.

It's not about earning your stripes or anything. It's about not wanting the added complication and inconvenience and danger that more medical interventions inevitably add to the birth.


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I have had two completely and totally natural births already, and #3 is coming in March. I've never had a birth in a hospital so it's never been an option either.

Epidurals give an unecessary risk to both mom and baby. Why take that chance when natural is an option? That I will never understand.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I have had two completely and totally natural births already, and #3 is coming in March. I've never had a birth in a hospital so it's never been an option either.

Epidurals give an unecessary risk to both mom and baby. Why take that chance when natural is an option? That I will never understand.

Maybe because you've already had two very (exceptionally) painful completely natural births, and even the thought of having another medication-free birth makes you want to shoot yourself in the head, right now.

If someone had offered me a gun or a knife during the last 2 hours of my ds' birth, I probably wouldn't be alive now to comment on how unpleasant it was. (It was a 100% natural home waterbirth, and the worst physical experience of my life.) If you visit the birth trauma area, you'll see that I'm not alone in having a natural birth like this.

Sometimes, birth is absolutely horrible, no matter what you do right (herbs, chiro, positioning, hypnotherapy, meditation, relaxation, birth ball, great support from partner & HCP, etc.). Preferring death over going through that experience makes an epidural quite possibly worth the risk, particularly if the unavailability of the epidural option would result in the mother either choosing against her desires to have more children or seeking an abortion in the event of an unintended pregnancy when having the actual child is desired.

I'm not exaggerating. I think pain avoidance is a valid reason for choosing an epidural. Please do try to understand.







It's not an easy decision for a natural-minded mama to face.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 
Maybe because you've already had two very (exceptionally) painful completely natural births, and even the thought of having another medication-free birth makes you want to shoot yourself in the head, right now.

If someone had offered me a gun or a knife during the last 2 hours of my ds' birth, I probably wouldn't be alive now to comment on how unpleasant it was. (It was a 100% natural home waterbirth, and the worst physical experience of my life.) If you visit the birth trauma area, you'll see that I'm not alone in having a natural birth like this.

Sometimes, birth is absolutely horrible, no matter what you do right (herbs, chiro, positioning, hypnotherapy, meditation, relaxation, birth ball, great support from partner & HCP, etc.). Preferring death over going through that experience makes an epidural quite possibly worth the risk, particularly if the unavailability of the epidural option would result in the mother either choosing against her desires to have more children or seeking an abortion in the event of an unintended pregnancy when having the actual child is desired.

I'm not exaggerating. I think pain avoidance is a valid reason for choosing an epidural. Please do try to understand.







It's not an easy decision for a natural-minded mama to face.









mama

I think when most of us here say that we wouldn't or don't understand someone who would simply choose to have an epidural it's not including situations and circumstances like what you have faced.

I think it is more directed at the lack of education and/or fear that our culture has placed on birthing.

Your situation is really an uncommon one and not one that most people contemplate when thinking of birth.


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

I was up and walking around for both my hospital births. Still hurt like Heck! And i labored in water. Still hurt like Heck! (heck being the nicest term I can possibly use) Hooray for those who's births didn't hurt. Mine most certainly did!!! And laboring at home hurt too for those who might implicate the hospital environment for causing anxiety/pain.

I had absolutely NO fear of birth. I was freakin' thrilled to be having my babies. And it still hurt.

FWIW, I was up and walking within 1 hour after my epi was turned off both times ( I was nursing the babes the whole time after so I didn't have much need to get up before that anyway). And both girls nursed like it was going outta style. I didn't plan on having epidurals with either birth, but I have absolutely nothing negative to say about the experience. I know that with #1, it saved me from a c/s.


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## polishprinsezz (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tndixiemom* 
I did experience the power of what my body can do. I just didn't experience the pain. Birth is not about the pain. I will never understand why people feel it is ok to think someone missed out on birth or that their birth was more special or amazing than someone who had an epidural. I would never dismiss someone who had an unmedicated birth, but for some reason it is ok to do it if you had the epidural.

Save your pity for people who really need it. I am now 9 weeks pregnant with my second child. I will be opting for the epi. I did the same with my first. I did feel my birth. I felt the joy. I felt the love. I felt the awesome power of knowing my baby was coming into the world. I do not feel that pain would have enhanced any of that and I think it is insulting to insinuate that a medicated birth is an unfeeling one. You feel many many things.

.

its this attitude i pity. if you feel a pre-planned medicated birth on a low risk pregnancy is equal to a drug free as little intervention as possible birth, there is no reason to get defensive. of course having a healthy safe baby is the most important outcome of childbirth. i feel that this attitude about an epi sends a message to women to fear the pain of childbirth. its the same as famous people who purposely choose a c-section.

some people commented on how if they had their baby in the hospital they knew that they would end up asking for pain relief when the pain got too unbearable. so they choose to birth at home where no drugs are available.i can totally understand both comments.

another person commented about that euphoric feeling you have from accomplishing a intervention free birth. this is how i felt with my last two births. it makes me want to have more children. i have two healthy beautiful children from my first two births that where i felt dissapointed in how unnatural they where. i had iv's ,drugs, constant monitering,forceps. i did not feel high off those experiences.

to me the thought of being numb and not in control is scarier than the thought of pain itself.


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## zoeyzoo (Jul 6, 2007)

I had a natural HB. I don't take to meds well and didn't want to be fighting my way at the hospital in order to have a NCB with evidence based care. (FWIW I don't believe the typical hospital routine is evidence based for low risk pregnancies.)


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## Sparks* (Feb 3, 2008)

my mom is paralyzed from the waist down on her left side and has to have a colostomy bag because of her epidural with my sister 16 years ago. I was 10 when she was born and was there for the entire labor and birth. Needless to say, it left a huge impression on me. I remember when they put the needle in my mom's spine, she cried out and said that she felt lightning all through her legs. The doctor just told her to breath through it and she was fine. My mom did get a substantial settlement, but she's forever disabled because of a choice to not feel pain for a few hours (and the all too common negligence of hurried doctors). After seeing what my mom has gone through I had no doubt that I would have a natural homebirth....and I did! There are HUGE risks that really need to be considered. I think too many mothers make the decision uninformed.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:

its this attitude i pity. if you feel a pre-planned medicated birth on a low risk pregnancy is equal to a drug free as little intervention as possible birth, there is no reason to get defensive.
I don't get your attitude. I didn't get the least bit defensive. I stated how I felt during my medicated birth and how I do get irritated when people assume that I didn't feel anything during birth. If you want to pity me, then go ahead. I do feel my birth was equal to someone's feelings over an unmedicated birth FOR ME. That euphoric feeling, I got because I was happy with my experience. I was and still am happy with my birth. I know it is a birth that would not be ideal for someone else. I get that. I hope that person gets the birth that makes them happy. Please don't project your unhappiness and defensiveness over your birth onto me because I am happy with my epidural birth. They are both valid.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

bug, I was up about an hour after they turned the epi off, too. I also never had a catheter. That was never even mentioned during the birth.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tndixiemom* 
I did experience the power of what my body can do. I just didn't experience the pain. Birth is not about the pain. I will never understand why people feel it is ok to think someone missed out on birth or that their birth was more special or amazing than someone who had an epidural. I would never dismiss someone who had an unmedicated birth, but for some reason it is ok to do it if you had the epidural.

Save your pity for people who really need it. I am now 9 weeks pregnant with my second child. I will be opting for the epi. I did the same with my first. I did feel my birth. I felt the joy. I felt the love. I felt the awesome power of knowing my baby was coming into the world. I do not feel that pain would have enhanced any of that and I think it is insulting to insinuate that a medicated birth is an unfeeling one. You feel many many things.

I think everyone should get the birth they want. If someone wants an unmedicated birth, I think that that is what they should get. If someone wants a medicated birth, they should get it. They should also be able to get them without the judgement and without someone telling them that they are not having the right birth. Birth is such an intimate, personal experience and no one should be put down or pitied because they go a different way than someone else.

I dont believe that anyone is trying to say that someone that had a medicated birth didn't have an awesome experience, no one wants to dismiss you or your experience. I understand what they mean though, my first I had an epi, signed up for that when I was a young teenager. I figured why go through pain when you dont have to? But with dd this time around I desired a homebirth rather than hospital, and obviously you wont get an epi at home. I began reading other homebirth stories and became very excited about labor and looked forward to a raw natural labor and delivery.

It was a completely different experience, soooo incredibly empowering! It's an addictive feeling!
From someone who's done both I can say that the only way I will birth is ah-natural at home with dh. Btw I want between 4 and 8 kids, we'll see how many I can get dh to go for lol







.


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polishprinsezz* 
to me the thought of being numb and not in control is scarier than the thought of pain itself.

To me, both scenarios are terrifying, which is why I can't bring myself to get pregnant again and have to choose between torturous pain, or being totally numb and not in control of my body. How lucky a lot of you Mama's here are to have had labors where the pain does not become overwhelming. Ds is over 3 and I want him to have a sibling some day...


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
To me, both scenarios are terrifying, which is why I can't bring myself to get pregnant again and have to choose between torturous pain, or being totally numb and not in control of my body. How lucky a lot of you Mama's here are to have had labors where the pain does not become overwhelming. Ds is over 3 and I want him to have a sibling some day...









I'm having my third baby within the next 2 weeks or so. I've had two homebirths and I'm planning this one to be a homebirth also.

I belly ache to DH over the pain I will have soon.... I wish I could stay pregnant now that I'm reaching this point. I've never come close to an orgasmic birth and I think birth hurts like hell...and it has been overwhelming. But what the pain brings is much greater than the pain itself.


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## Septagram (Feb 8, 2008)

My first son was born in the hospital with an epidural. My second was born at home with no epidural. The homebirth was by far less painful.
After it was over I looked at the MW and said "That's it? I could do that again."


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
How lucky a lot of you Mama's here are to have had labors where the pain does not become overwhelming. Ds is over 3 and I want him to have a sibling some day...









I never saw anyone post that. Just because I keep doing it, doesn't mean it's not overwhelming pain where I wish for death instead. I do. I just choose not to think about it, or dwell on it. I am 24.5 weeks pregnant now and whenever thoughts of "how will I survive the pain" come up...I just think about something else, because the time will come, I will do it, and it will be over.


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## polishprinsezz (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
To me, both scenarios are terrifying, which is why I can't bring myself to get pregnant again and have to choose between torturous pain, or being totally numb and not in control of my body. How lucky a lot of you Mama's here are to have had labors where the pain does not become overwhelming. Ds is over 3 and I want him to have a sibling some day...









i never said the pain wasnt overwhelming. believe me i wanted to jump in front of a mac truck or a moving train. i am able to handle this intense pain for at least a little while which makes me understand why first time moms end up asking for pain relief. my 2,3,and 4th labors were much quicker. the overwhelming pain lasted only about 1 1/2 hours. it was very rewarding and euphoric to be able to deliver the way nature intended. i still feel not being in control of your own body is scarier than intense pain.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
I never saw anyone post that.


There are posts here that plainly state that moms that choose an epidural are basically also choosing to potentially destroy their bond with their child. I believe that may have been one of the posts that Jennica was refering to in her post.

Jennica - I can relate, I made the choice for an epidural in my labors for the same reason. I very often feel as if I am looked down upon here but honestly, my educated decision is just as valid as anyone's here.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polishprinsezz* 
i never said the pain wasnt overwhelming. believe me i wanted to jump in front of a mac truck or a moving train. i am able to handle this intense pain for at least a little while which makes me understand why first time moms end up asking for pain relief. my 2,3,and 4th labors were much quicker. the overwhelming pain lasted only about 1 1/2 hours. it was very rewarding and euphoric to be able to deliver the way nature intended. *i still feel not being in control of your own body is scarier than intense pain*.

Respectfully, that is your opinion. Unless you can step inside another mom's body during her birthing experience there is no way for anyone to understand the level of pain that she is experiencing and her ability to deal with that pain. For me it was more important to be clear headed and able to concentrate than deal with the pain. I wanted to remember the birth of my DD's and not just suffer because of my own inability to deal with the extreme pain that I was experiencing.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
To me, both scenarios are terrifying, which is why I can't bring myself to get pregnant again and have to choose between torturous pain, or being totally numb and not in control of my body. How lucky a lot of you Mama's here are to have had labors where the pain does not become overwhelming. Ds is over 3 and I want him to have a sibling some day...









Hon have you considered hypnobabies? It is very, very good for mitigating *fear* and I'm sure part of why the "pain" part of my labours wasn't especially important to me.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janasmama* 







mama

I think when most of us here say that we wouldn't or don't understand someone who would simply choose to have an epidural it's not including situations and circumstances like what you have faced.

I think it is more directed at the lack of education and/or fear that our culture has placed on birthing.

Your situation is really an uncommon one and not one that most people contemplate when thinking of birth.










Thank you so much for these words. I agree it's not a common experience, though I would like women to know it's possible, but rare, so they don't feel guilt or isolation if it happens to them.

My first birth was tough because I had approximately 7.5 hours of transition. I made it through but it was really difficult to suffer transition for that long. I did have mild PTSD after that birth because of the pain and its duration. However, the actual level of physical pain wasn't atrocious and had it not gone on for 8 hours (from beginning of transition to holding baby), I think I would have remembered part of it being really tough and really painful, but nothing I couldn't do again. As it was, I was exhausted and didn't feel great. No birth high or anything.

The pain level of the second birth was on another planet. There's no way to compare it to any other experience I've ever had. And it was not empowering; it was totally demoralizing and destructive. There was nothing beautiful about that experience. It was like my body was possessed and someone was wringing, squeezing me to death in their hands forcing the screams out of me. I could not have not screamed. I just can't describe it. As much as I love my son, I'm not sure it was worth it. In retrospect, sure, I'm thrilled to have him and adore him, but in possibly choosing to do that again? No, I really don't know . . .

If someone said, "You can have another baby, but we have to first torture you with new, extremely painful torture techniques for eight hours, the last two hours of which you will scream uncontrollably from the pain as if begging for death. When that's done, you can have your baby" - well, I don't know, is it really worth it? I don't know. I have to think about it. Yes, there's the lifetime with your child, but if the experience of the birth is so horrific that it damages you, then I don't know, how do you choose?

There's so much guilt in this situation. If I choose an epidural and something goes wrong, it will forever be my fault for not just toughing it out. If I choose not to have an epidural, I know there's a good chance of being tortured. I don't know; how is anyone supposed to make that choice?

There is a level of pain possible in birth that cannot be comprehended until it's been experienced. This is not an objective situation and I don't think it's something that can be understood until it's been experienced. There's a mama here somewhere who didn't have a birth like this until her 3rd. Then she understood. Most people are never, at any point in their lives, subjected to that level of pain. I really don't think it's possible to fully contemplate it until it's happened to you. Like women who say that the toothache that required a root canal was worse. I had one like that - terrible, awful, horrible toothache. In the 36 hours before I got it taken care of and the 24 afterwards, I could understand why if I didn't have a dentist I would have knocked that thing out of my head with a rock. But it was still on Planet Earth, and the pain of giving birth the second time was not; it was many magnitudes worse.

I don't think I'm _afraid_ of giving birth again . . . it's more a feeling of dread. Of, do I really have to do this again . . . is it really necessary to make someone suffer so much to bring life into the world . . . can I really volunteer for that again? Can I really ask that of myself? Should anyone be expected to do that, ever? I don't know. Why is my body even capable of registering that level of pain?

Yeah, so I'm really not thinking about getting pregnant anytime soon. The decision is too hard to make.









Sorry to go into this so much - I just find it's difficult to explain because, as I said, until you've experienced it I think it's impossible or almost impossible to understand. But I also think it's wortwhile to share because I believe there are times where an epidural is a valid choice just for the reason of pain relief, and I would never judge, scold or pity a woman for choosing an epidural for that reason.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
There are posts here that plainly state that moms that choose an epidural are basically also choosing to potentially destroy their bond with their child. I believe that may have been one of the posts that Jennica was refering to in her post.

My post was not in response to any of those statements, but in response to the the post I quoted that jennica previously posted...in regards to "how lucky some of us where because the pain was not overwhelming". Not sure how you gathered that from my post and the post I quoted.


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## Dahlea (May 15, 2008)

Planning for natural, because there's no need for drugs for something as normal as birth, imo.
Not to mention there are too many side effects to drugs and I don't want to worry about that.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cutie Patootie* 
My post was not in response to any of those statements, but in response to the the post I quoted that jennica previously posted...in regards to "how lucky some of us where because the pain was not overwhelming". Not sure how you gathered that from my post and the post I quoted.









I was talking about the posts Jennica was replying to.


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polishprinsezz* 
i still feel not being in control of your own body is scarier than intense pain.

And, I still think both are equally scary, thus I can't bring myself to go through that again.

The overwhelming pain I experienced lasted for 4 of my 6 hours of labor. The worst part was the one hour that they were trying to give me nubain. The pain was so overwhelming that it felt like it was not even coming from my body anymore, it was just in the room, all around me, and I couldn't contain it, which the was the most terrifying feeling I have ever felt. I still to this day don't even know where in my body I was feeling the pain, because it was outside of my body. I screamed at the top of my lungs. I felt like I was dying, like something was horribly wrong. It was the furthest thing from "natural" that I can think of. It is like the movie The Princess Bride, when the pain machine is turned up to the maximum setting.

If I can bring myself to get pregnant again, my plan is to have a home water birth and try to stay as calm as possible to keep the pain inside my body. If I can't keep the pain inside my body, then I will probably transfer for an epidural. It's not my first choice, but it is definitely an option, and will be better for me then experiencing that kind of pain again.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2* 
Maybe because you've already had two very (exceptionally) painful completely natural births, and even the thought of having another medication-free birth makes you want to shoot yourself in the head, right now.

If someone had offered me a gun or a knife during the last 2 hours of my ds' birth, I probably wouldn't be alive now to comment on how unpleasant it was. (It was a 100% natural home waterbirth, and the worst physical experience of my life.) If you visit the birth trauma area, you'll see that I'm not alone in having a natural birth like this.

Sometimes, birth is absolutely horrible, no matter what you do right (herbs, chiro, positioning, hypnotherapy, meditation, relaxation, birth ball, great support from partner & HCP, etc.). Preferring death over going through that experience makes an epidural quite possibly worth the risk, particularly if the unavailability of the epidural option would result in the mother either choosing against her desires to have more children or seeking an abortion in the event of an unintended pregnancy when having the actual child is desired.

I'm not exaggerating. I think pain avoidance is a valid reason for choosing an epidural. Please do try to understand.







It's not an easy decision for a natural-minded mama to face.

I hear this! I had a traumatic, hellishly painful unmedicated first labor and swore I'd never have another child because of it. I did want to die, my whole world was pain and I even forgot why it was happening or that there was a baby coming.

Sixteen years later (!) I got my hospital records and found out I'd had chorioamnionitis (sp?) and my midwife said she has seen that condition create a horribly painful labor. I went on to have a completely pain free (ok, three of the contractions hurt, lol) labor with my third child.

My point is that for us mamas who have had labor that is hell on earth, it doesn't necessarily have to repeat itself - if I'd known that there was a reason for the pain I wouldn't have spent all those years feeling weak and like my body was dysfunctional when it came to birth. I used Hypnobabies for my third child and the feeling of laboring comfortably was worth its weight in gold and helped me resolve those fears and phobias that had occured after the first awful labor.

That said, if a mama with a history like ours goes into labor and her coping mechanisms weren't working, I would think that the fear would potentially have a worse effect on the labor than an epidural. It's that bad. And I say that knowing that the epidural has side effects on mama that can last for years, (mine all have) and sometimes on baby too. There's no one answer, just lots and lots of options.


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

n/m


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

n/m


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## amydidit (Jan 21, 2005)

I think it's very unfair to assume that because some of us didn't get the epi that we didn't have incredibly painful and/or horrific labors/births.

I tend to not talk about the negative side of DD2's birth, but there definitely was one. DD1 had been born after only 7 hours of labor. It hurt, badly, but I still got through it. I figured DD2 would be about the same, or easier. Wrong! I had 21 hours of labor with a stubborn posterior baby. I labored in my thighs and had NO idea how to handle that. I was crying, screaming, shrieking, saying "Just fix it fix it fix it!". It was terrible. But still, even through that when my DH asked if I wanted to go to a hospital I said no because I would refuse anything they could offer anyway. Why? Because despite all the pain, I still KNEW my body could do it and that the pain WOULD eventually end.

Does that mean my labor/birth was less painful and horrific than others just because I didn't cave in and go get drugs? No. And I think it's very disrespectful to assume that it does.


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

I think there is a lot of potential for disrespect on both sides of the fence here.
We all need to respect each other's births as personal and individual and try not to be too touchy about other's opinions. IMO, it's an awesome event however it unfolds.


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## Mamabeakley (Jul 9, 2004)

I'm a relatively new doula. I've seen three unmedicated births in that role (2 hospital, 1 at home), and two epidural births, one of which ended in a c/s. And I've had two posterior (very painful) labors and one posterior birth at home without medication.

I totally understand why some women would choose to have an epidural. Even though the idea of a needle stuck in my spine scares the bejezuz out of me, there are circumstances under which I would choose an epidural for myself - if I felt I had reached my limit of being able to cope for whatever reason, if I was having a c/s.

My real question about birth right now is "why do people go to the hospital?" Not to hijack the OP thread, so don't feel you need to answer it - and besides, it wouldn't be my *real* question if somebody else could answer it for me. But for both of the epidural births I saw, I am almost certain that had those moms stayed at home attended by a skilled midwife, they would have been through transition (which is when both requested their epis) and pushing before a transfer for pain relief could have taken place. I can't truly know for certain, of course, since I am not them and it didn't happen that way - but I have my strong suspicions. Being in the hospital with an epi available (in one case) or experiencing the interventions of simple hospital routine (in the other case) seemed _to me_ to make those births much much longer, more traumatic, and overwhelming, than they would have been if the moms had gone through transition without medication, despite the availability of pain relief via epidural.


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## justice'smom (Jun 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BugMacGee* 
I think there is a lot of potential for disrespect on both sides of the fence here.
We all need to respect each other's births as personal and individual and try not to be too touchy about other's opinions. IMO, it's an awesome event however it unfolds.









:

Mamabeakley don't feel like your hijaking, I'm curious about the same thing. I just talked to my sister in law who had planned to have a homebirth and has now decided on a hospital birth. I asked her this very question. Her answer was that she lives in a very small apartment and lives on the fourth floor so it would probably be uncomfortable to try to birth there. I have seen her apartment and she's not kidding. It is very small.


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Planning for a H2O HB this time. First time was at a free-standing birth center, also an H2O birth. In transition I know I wanted an epidural, but my fear of needles, hospitals, and wanting my waterbirth kept me where I was. And I knew the risks and didn't want to risk them.

Ds was also posterior, and gave me horrid lower back pain.....it would have been a lot easier to cope with if I hadn't had both front and back pain. As it was, I asked for sterile water injections because I couldn't focus anymore....and they worked! They dulled the back pain enough so I could focus on the front pain. I also had freedom of position and movement which helped cope with it. I knew the policies of the hospital that I would have had to transfer to...and I know I would have ended up with an epidural had I gone. Back or semi-sitting up, no freedom of movement, no water. With all that in place there's no way I could have coped without one.

It was nice to be walking afterward and having an euphoric high. I was amazed that I even did it.

As it is, ds messed up my sacral area thanks to him being posterior, so now I really don't want an epidural...I fear more problems. I'm going to a chiro now to try to keep that area in place and icing it every so often....and hoping this lo will not be posterior too, it's semi-posterior as of now.

Epis are worth the risk for some women. There's circumstances where they are warrented and can help achieve a vaginal birth. I don't think all women really research the pros and cons, but some do...and for those that do and wish to go through with it I can't say anything bad...I don't have their body or mindset and if they feel it was needed, maybe it was.


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
I think it's very unfair to assume that because some of us didn't get the epi that we didn't have incredibly painful and/or horrific labors/births.
-----
Does that mean my labor/birth was less painful and horrific than others just because I didn't cave in and go get drugs? No. And I think it's very disrespectful to assume that it does.

I think many of us who are talking about overwhelming pain didn't get an epi either, and are therefore considering the possibility of it for the next birth. I don't know what your pain was like, and I don't presume to know. I just know what mine was like and that I couldn't handle it. I know that I screamed in terror, I know that I got PTSD in part because of it, I know that I am still afraid to go through it again over three years later. That is my personal experience, and many people who originally commented to this thread pretty much disregarded pain as an issue (in my opinion), so I think, "wow, you guys are lucky", but that doesn't mean I think that everyone who didn't have an epidural didn't have a painful birth. I really think we all experience pain differently and many things go into that perception (including past experiences, fear, and abuse). I know some women who barely felt anything, I know others who felt it was painful but say that they were able to stay on top of the pain, and I know others who think the pain was horrific and it was actually traumatizing. No one is assuming anything about you personally.


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## justice'smom (Jun 5, 2007)

thefragile7393 said:


> I asked for sterile water injections because I couldn't focus
> QUOTE]
> 
> What are sterile water injections?


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## rhoneyes (Aug 19, 2008)

We planned and acheived a natural birth. We wanted a home/water birth but transferred to the hospital at transition. Once at the hospital no medications were given.

I highly recommend the water birth. Its so nice during the contractions. You can get into almost any position and be comfortable. The water is just amazing. Even if you dont birth in the tub...its nice to relax in.

Just be careful not to get in to early,.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydidit* 
Does that mean my labor/birth was less painful and horrific than others just because I didn't cave in and go get drugs? No. And I think it's very disrespectful to assume that it does.


Isn't it just as disrespectful to insinuate that because I did choose an epidural that I "caved in" to my pain? No two women experience birth the same - no two people experience pain the same. Why do any of us feel that we have the right to decide if one woman's pain is excruciating enough to warrant epidural pain relief? Why can't we all just accept that childbirth is different for each of us and leave it at that?


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## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

Water did nada for me. Oh how I wished it had.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BugMacGee* 
Water did nada for me. Oh how I wished it had.

Same here. A little water therapy can't touch "I'm being tortured to death," unfortunately. Though the really great BPIAB did allow me to get into the position I found most supportive. If only the mw asst hadn't insisted that I move to a different position.







:


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## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

I hated the pressure and junk that happened at the hospital. I ended up begging for an epi in a delirium. Thankfully, I was allowed to relax in the tub, and was able to resume the delivery without drugs. I think, however, that I would have killed the anesthesiologist had he actually started the epi ... I'm way more freaked out about needles than pain. And, I had a spinal tap about 15 years ago, that is a vivid memory, which I never want to repeat.

My baby was born at 37 weeks, and we weren't mentally prepared for the event, so we got bullied. I wish I'd been more forceful with explaining to my DH & doula that an epi would not be desired, but hey, it worked out in the end. 2nd baby was born at home, and so will this one - even though I **know** I don't want interventions, I really don't want them to be an option, and in the heat of the moment, you can make bad decisions. I can beg for drugs or csection at home, but nobody pays attention









--janis


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## RaRa7 (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tndixiemom* 
bug, I was up about an hour after they turned the epi off, too. I also never had a catheter. That was never even mentioned during the birth.

I'm pretty sure if you have an epidural a catheter is necessary-you can't pee if you can't feel (or rather you'll pee the bed, floor, whatever)


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## bungar (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
I'm pretty sure if you have an epidural a catheter is necessary-you can't pee if you can't feel (or rather you'll pee the bed, floor, whatever)

Nope - I didn't have a catheter either. I peed like a race horse after though. OMG did I pee..lol


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

With my first I was induced and ended up with an epi, it was horrible.

With my second, I had a homebirth, 3 hour second stage, the pain was ruddy awful.

I am scared to birt with an epi, I am scared to birth without an epi.

I have opted for another homebirth this time because while the homebirth was incredibly painful, there was something that I didn't get with the epi birth.

Funny thing is, with my first birth which I found EXTREMELY traumatic, the MWs/Ob who were dealing with me at that point just saw it as a normal birth and not that bad. With my homeirth, while it was incredibly painful etc, I didn't see it as being that traumatic yet all the MWs who were there describe it as a very traumatic birth.

I feel confused, it would seem maybe I did have 2 traumatic births but maybe because the first was sooooooooo bad, the second doesn't really register?

I dunno, anyway, I will ony take the Epi if I really feel I need it.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

I had a nearly painless labor with DS1 and an incredibly intense, painful labor with DS2. If my second labor had gone on much longer, I would have gotten an epidural- I actually found myself considering asking for one- something I never thought I'd want.

In spite of that, I will still plan on an unmedicated labor and birth, should we decide to have another LO.


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## hollydlr (May 17, 2007)

justice'smom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *thefragile7393*
> ...


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## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *polishprinsezz* 

to me the thought of being numb and not in control is scarier than the thought of pain itself.

This. Exactly. The thought of not being able to move and not having any control of my own body scares the heck out of me.


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## Juniperberry (Apr 2, 2008)

I was induced with my first and had an epidural quickly. The experience, for me, was dissapointing - that's just how it feels for me.

With my first, I was pretty clueless as to options (homebirth etc..) and just hadn't done research at all. I remember when i told my ob/gyn I would like to have a natural birth she just looked at me like, yeah right, and said, when you know there's someone behind the door that can take the pain away, you'll be quick to use it. She was right.

I feel I wasn't given the chance to see how I would handle birth - having been given the pitocin so early on with #1. I want to see how my body reacts, and I want to see how strong I am mentally. I will never say I'm totally closed to any options, but I know I am so much stronger than when I was at this stage with my first. I do want this birth to be natural.


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## Juniperberry (Apr 2, 2008)

hollydlr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *justice'smom*
> ...


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AstridS* 
This. Exactly. The thought of not being able to move and not having any control of my own body scares the heck out of me.

Yup, me too.

Ironically, I felt more out of control than I ever thought possible with this birth.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juniperberry* 
I know birth is horrific for some people, I have yet to experience a natural birth myself, but *I know that the majority of women don't need it*.

Honestly, there is no way for you to know what other women need when it comes to labor pain relief.


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

i had a homebirth with dd and this baby will be no different. i simply do not feel safe in a hospital. i don't want to fight tooth and nail to not have a continuous fetal monitor, an IV, etc. i didn't need an epidural to birth the first time and i hope that this birth follows suit. i feel that an epi would be a great tool if i had a day or two of non-progressing labor and exhaustion with contractinos that would not allow me to sleep, but otherwise i don't want anything stuck in my epidural space. far too close to my spinal cord for my comfort.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

I chose to go with a hospital because I wanted pain medication and you can't get that at home. I knew going into my first pregnancy that I wanted the epi. I knew my body and I knew what I wanted in a birth. I was fortunate and (aside from an induction due to pre-e) was able to have the birth I wanted. It just makes me sad when people downplay my birth as not as big an accomplishment as theirs for the simple reason of pain medication. I am proud of my birth and hope that when this little one comes in April, I am able to have another great experience and amazing birth to look back on.


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## Juniperberry (Apr 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Honestly, there is no way for you to know what other women need when it comes to labor pain relief.

I'm sorry... I wasn't meaning to sound presumptuous at all!! I guess I'm making my own statistics from what I've read. I don't presume to know what another woman needs, I'm far from really knowing what I'm talking about... just adding my thoughts...


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Honestly, there is no way for you to know what other women need when it comes to labor pain relief.









More than 50% of women can't handle the pain of labor? How did we evolve? I'm very confused.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Natural for me! I had a hospital birth, but I really wanted to avoid an epidural & I did. Here's why:

1. The cascade of other interventions the epidural leads too.
-It doubles the risk of C/S, which I really wanted to avoid
-It quadruples the risk of insturmental delivery - & I was way more terrified of the risk of vacuum + episiotomy + 4th degree tear (exactly what happened to my SIL) than I was of having to cope with the pain of labor.

2. The risks of the epidural itself.
Bladder catheder (ick), headache that could last weeks, nausea, fever, BP drop, etc.
-Although, truth be told, I wasn't worried about DS getting the drugs in his system. There really isn't any research, at least that I've come across, of the drugs having any adverse effect on babies. So that wasn't a concern for me.

3. I wanted a natural birth because I wanted to be in control of my own body & not _be controlled._ Being tied to machines & de-humanized sickens me to even think about.

Yeah, it hurt, but it was awesome & I wouldn't have had it any other way!

Why hospital?

As far as I know, there are only 2 HB MWs in the entire greater Baltimore area!!! They're not in practice together I still don't know who backs up each of them when they have 2 clients in labor simultaneously. That, & DH was scared of not being in the hospital "just in case."







. For #2, if I like either of those MWs, I'm just stayin' home!







As it was, I did all my laboring at home anyway.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Honestly, there is no way for you to know what other women need when it comes to labor pain relief.

Well, I know about 1/3 of all births in the Netherlands are home births.. so at least 30% of all women there don't feel they require the epidural.

I'm not sure, but I believe in the Netherlands & other industrialized nations with actual evidence-based maternity care, epidurals are NOT done in the majority of vaginal births. I don't know the exact stat, but I know epidural rate elsewhere is much lower than in the US.


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## Haselnuss (Sep 20, 2008)

There are different possible meanings for "can't handle". Is "handling" pain equivalent to being silent and cheerful through the whole thing? Does it mean considering it worthwhile the whole time, or just after the fact, or simply surviving it?
I do find it insulting that the women who define their births as traumatic assume those of us who don't had less painful births. I could absolutely describe my first DDs birth (21 hours of labor, 3 hours of pushing, posterior) in the same terms they have - torture, the machine in Princess Bride, etc. At the time, if I had been in a hospital, there is no doubt in my mind I would have gotten an epidural - so I'm not going to accuse anyone of "caving in" when I would have done the same. At the time, I screamed so much the neighbors called the police, begged people to knock me out or kill me, and very nearly jumped out the window to stop the pain. I did not have an easy birth, ok?
The difference is, for whatever reason, afterwards I was not traumatized. I was relieved, happy, and found myself less afraid of the more minor things (ie, everything) I had to face in my day-to-day life. I'll admit, I didn't want to have another child until the memory started to fade, and when I was pregnant with DD#2, I had insomnia and anxiety about the upcoming birth, and wouldn't have dared try another homebirth at all if I wasn't convinced it would be easier (it was). I don't know why it is, but just because after the fact someone defines the suffering they went through as "worth it" or "empowering" doesn't mean the suffering was less at the time (in fact, I think it's quite possible that, to define it that way, we have to forget it to some degree).


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arismommy* 
I'm pretty sure if you have an epidural a catheter is necessary-you can't pee if you can't feel (or rather you'll pee the bed, floor, whatever)

I'm a LDR Rn and there is no need for a cath with an epidural. The Ob/Gyn might do a straight cath right before delivery if needed or Rns can also straight cath a patient should they NEED it, but no indwelling cath is necessary.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
but no indwelling cath is necessary.

My mom is an RN & said the cath may be necessary if the bladder is full. Because with the loss of sensation, the urethral sphincter closes up & you can't empty your bladder. The full bladder can get in the way of the baby descending through the already small pelvic area.

So... the cathedar _will_ be necessary if bladder is full, but is not _always_ necessary, right? IOW - it's a risk of epidural, not a given.

However, many hospitals still insist on "nothing by mouth" (no drinking water) & give you IV fluids. Would the IV fluids end up filling your bladder as your body processes the fluid? So, would it end up being a common need in many cases?


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

I planned to have a "natural" birth, but ended up requiring an epi. My DS was badly positioned, I wasn't dilating, and I had overwhelming pushing contractions at only 4 cm. My cervix was beginning to swell, which would have led to a c-section (which to me would be EXTREMELY traumatic... I hate hospitals and the idea scares me ****less.)

I had an epi at 8pm, and was dilated to 6cm by 11pm. DS was born at 5:24am after 45 hours of labour. 36 hours of which, I was drug free.

There are occasions where an epi is medically indicated. Mine is one of them. (I'm planning a homebirth next time... hopefully baby #2 will be in a better position.)


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
(I'm planning a homebirth next time... hopefully baby #2 will be in a better position.)

You can do things to encourage this. Our sedentary lifestyle encourages posterior babies and it's a severe problem. My first was posterior and really, many many many babies are these days. Most, I'd say. http://spinningbabies.simplwebsite.com/


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MegBoz* 
My mom is an RN & said the cath may be necessary if the bladder is full. Because with the loss of sensation, the urethral sphincter closes up & you can't empty your bladder. The full bladder can get in the way of the baby descending through the already small pelvic area.

So... the cathedar _will_ be necessary if bladder is full, but is not _always_ necessary, right? IOW - it's a risk of epidural, not a given.

However, many hospitals still insist on "nothing by mouth" (no drinking water) & give you IV fluids. Would the IV fluids end up filling your bladder as your body processes the fluid? So, would it end up being a common need in many cases?

Correct, but a straight cath, which is inserted just long enough to drain the bladder, retracted and the patient is then again cath free. A straight cath is different than an indwelling cath, which is left in place. A straight cath is not left in place. Also it depends on the hospital and Ob if you are NPO. The hospital's policy was NPO but my Ob said I could drink and eat while laboring, and I did.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Correct, but a straight cath, which is inserted just long enough to drain the bladder, retracted and the patient is then again cath free. A straight cath is different than an indwelling cath, which is left in place. A straight cath is not left in place. Also it depends on the hospital and Ob if you are NPO. The hospital's policy was NPO but my Ob said I could drink and eat while laboring, and I did.

It doesn't really matter if the cath is left in place or not. If it's necessary for any time at all, it's an interference. It can change a woman's labor pattern. Can't it also possibly cause infection?


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annakiss* 
It doesn't really matter if the cath is left in place or not. If it's necessary for any time at all, it's an interference. It can change a woman's labor pattern. Can't it also possibly cause infection?

Yes anytime a cath is inserted you risk infection. It can POSSIBLY change a labor pattern (though I have yet to see it). Interference? I have to disagree. It can be NECESSARY as part of a epidural labor/delivery. Some women never need a cath ever during a labor/delivery if they have an epidural. I was just mentioning that just because you decide to get an epidural does not mean you WILL FOR SURE have an indwelling cath attached to you. Not the case at all.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Yes, it can be necessary. The risk of necessitating it is increased by epidural. It is an intervention. One of many epidural use causes risk of.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Had an excruciating labour with ds2, 20 hours of labour with a transverse baby, double transition, nearly ruptured. I begged h to take me to the hospital so I could have something for the pain, even though I knew they'd just cut me again. Luckily he was thinking more clearly and reminded me of that. It was horrible & I never, ever want to endure that kind of pain again. But....I'm planning another UC. Trying to get my hands on Hypnobabies cd's from freecycle or something. TBH, I'm terrified it will hurt like that again, but I'm more terrified of what will happen to be in the hospital. I just keep telling myself it's not likely the baby will be that badly positioned again.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I personally have had a birth with an epidural and one completely medication free. They both have their distinct advantages I think. There are down sides to each as well. If I were able to have another baby, (and boy I wish I could







) I would choose natural, medication free, just for the reason I don't like being numb to everything. It was strange and unusual. I had no problems with the epidural, no headache, no need for any type of cath. at all during labor/delivery, and I was up and walking within 2 hours of birth. I just like doing things natural. However, I will NEVER judge a mother who chooses an epidural. Bottom line: It is YOUR birth, not anyone else's, so you do what you think you need to do. No one can judge and no one is "better" than anyone else in this situation. We just do things differently because we are different people giving birth.


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## diamond lil (Oct 6, 2003)

I decided not to have an epidural based on many reasons, but the biggest in my mind can be summed up in one word: Catheter. Just typing the word is making me woozy.

I am the biggest WIMP in the world. I fainted when I first got my period, I get woozy at the sight of blood, I take off from work when I have cramps.

Nobody could believe it when I said I was having a natural birth.

Yeah, I told everyone it was because I was worried about the side effects on the baby, but just between you and me (and everyone else on this board), the thought of having a catheter made me want to faint.

So I gave birth to my first baby without drugs and it felt just like taking a really big poopy.


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## poetesss (Mar 2, 2006)

To those who did choose an epi, whether during birth or before,







I have learned a lot from hearing your perspectives.

I have to admit that I might have been a bit arrogant before giving birth but the pain was one of the most humbling things I have experienced. One of my first thoughts was that I now understand why woman choose epidurals or even elective c-sections. Doesn't mean natural childbirth shouldn't be encouraged, IMO, but I think a little bit of compassion and empathy goes a long way in understanding the reality that every birth experience is different, every mother is different, and all moms deserve the *choice* to fashion their own birth experience.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

I absolutely understand why women choose epidurals and cesareans (birth was very painful for me both times), and I don't blame women for their choices. However, our culture continues putting mothers and babies at risk by encouraging these choices. In fact, with the steady encouragement and the lack of informed consent in addition to the fear-mongering and culture of quick fixes, I'd say you can hardly call this a choice.

The culture is not going to change on its own, however. Doctors will not suddenly and spontaneously release their grip on the ease of medical delivery to allow nature to work. Many, many women are working tirelessly to repair the maternity care crisis and shift perceptions about birth. What we need to do in our personal lives, however, is to speak positively about natural birth and highlight the risks of the medical model of care. It's absolutely necessary. I'm not going to hide the truth under a rock for fear of causing offense. It is not the fault of women. It is the fault of this culture. We must find ways to encourage one another to make active decisions for ourselves and our children, to become informed, to exercise the small choices we do have, and to live an authentic life.


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## MegBoz (Jul 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annakiss* 
However, our culture continues putting mothers and babies at risk by encouraging these choices.

The culture is not going to change on its own, however. Doctors will not suddenly and spontaneously release their grip on the ease of medical delivery to allow nature to work.










EXACTLY!!!!!!

On that note, have you taken the birth survey?


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

A lot of it also has to do with nurses who PUSH for the epidural and keep asking if the woman wants pain meds. I cannot tell you how many times I was asked if I "wanted something" during labor when I finally told them to not even ask. If I want something I will tell them. As a LDR Rn, I never suggest, I merely ask how the pain level is and they know there are options available for pain meds should they decide that is what they want to do. My point is for women not to feel ashamed or feel they "failed" if they had an epidural, this is not the case at all. I am lucky to have an Ob who educates women on natural childbirth, lets the process take its course and his C-section rate is exceptionally low. This is why I chose him. I know it is not the case in most of the country, but there are good Ob/Gyns out there and I am lucky enough to have one.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I have not had birth trauma like some of the previous posters, so I am coming at this from a relatively normal state of giving birth.

My first labour/delivery I begged my midwife for an epidural during transition and she helped me through it with other methods. We had agreed upon this before labour... I had a very fast transition and pushing phase - ended up with a fourth degree tear, pushing in a supported squat position.

Then I really wished I'd had that epidural. Never, EVER have I felt anything like that.

Due to spinal complications from a surgery fifteen years ago, and a laminectomy, I was counseled against having another vaginal birth. I visited two midwife practices, and we consulted with two OBs. Everyone was on the same page.

I ended up with a c-section this past December. I'm not sure which was worse - the fourth degree tear, or the section. I do know I recovered a LOT more quickly from the section. The tear took years to heal, and I still have some issues.

My poor girly parts!









To finish, I have ZERO judgement for women choosing epidurals. Who am I to decide who's pain is what? First thing we were taught about pain in nursing, is that it's subjective. If someone says their pain is a ten - it's a ten. End of discussion.

Do I wish that women were given more support and other ways of managing, coping with pain? That there was more frank discussion about labour pain? You bet, but we're just not there yet.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
I have not had birth trauma like some of the previous posters, so I am coming at this from a relatively normal state of giving birth.

My first labour/delivery I begged my midwife for an epidural during transition and she helped me through it with other methods. We had agreed upon this before labour... I had a very fast transition and pushing phase - ended up with a fourth degree tear, pushing in a supported squat position.

Then I really wished I'd had that epidural. Never, EVER have I felt anything like that.

Due to spinal complications from a surgery fifteen years ago, and a laminectomy, I was counseled against having another vaginal birth. I visited two midwife practices, and we consulted with two OBs. Everyone was on the same page.

I ended up with a c-section this past December. I'm not sure which was worse - the fourth degree tear, or the section. I do know I recovered a LOT more quickly from the section. The tear took years to heal, and I still have some issues.

My poor girly parts!









To finish, I have ZERO judgement for women choosing epidurals. Who am I to decide who's pain is what? *First thing we were taught about pain in nursing, is that it's subjective. If someone says their pain is a ten - it's a ten. End of discussion.*

Do I wish that women were given more support and other ways of managing, coping with pain? That there was more frank discussion about labour pain? You bet, but we're just not there yet.

As a fellow RN thank you for posting this! I am sorry to hear about your past, how awful and traumatic. I agree 100 percent with you!


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nursemummy* 
To finish, I have ZERO judgement for women choosing epidurals. Who am I to decide who's pain is what? First thing we were taught about pain in nursing, is that it's subjective. If someone says their pain is a ten - it's a ten. End of discussion.

Exactly. I have no right to judge the pain tolerance of another woman nor make decisions as to whether she needs pain relief.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Someone mentioned the epidural rate in other industrialized countries. Well, trust me on this one, the USA is not the highest. In France, where most hospital births are attended by midwives, the rate is around 98%. The c-section rate, however, is much lower.

Anyway, personally, I don't consider the epidural to be the benchmark of a "natural birth". There are plenty of women out there who do not have an epidural who end up giving birth on their back, feet in stirrups, OB breaking water, OB doing all the work getting baby out, episiotomy, etc. I would not consider such a birth to be "natural", notwithstanding absence of pain relief.

On the other hand, I know women who had a light epidural, enough to alleviate the pain without being rendered temporarily paralyzed. With the help of the nurse or midwife, they were able to move around during labour, squat, get on all fours, feel the baby, feel their body do all the pushing, basically have a normal birth. That to me is a natural birth, even with the pain relief.


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## Mom2Madolyn (May 10, 2007)

I'm planning on a C-section this time so an epidurel. I had my first two w/out an epidurel and with the last birth, I had one since the induciton HURT worse than anything I ever felt in my life!


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## Eliseatthebeach (Sep 20, 2007)

Natural.....same as all my other births. I cannot have an epidural even if I wanted one due to a spinal fusion that I had years ago.


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