# Help keeping daughter's privates clean!



## therosyapple (Apr 15, 2013)

My daughter is almost 3.5 yo. She has been potty trained since she was 19 mths. She has always been sensitive 'down there' but lately we are having a lot of trouble. She won't let us wipe her, or wash her down there during bath time. She won't let us wipe her or clean her up after she has used the potty. She literally clenches her knees together tightly and won't let us help. When she knows we have to clean her she starts fretting saying, 'be nice mama! Be nice!' I have explained that the more she clenches the more difficult it is to 'be nice'.

We also thought that maybe she was looking for independence. So, we let her try cleaning and wiping herself. But even then she doesn't really get in to get clean and I think yeast is becoming a problem...

Which leads me to the last bit... She won't even let us check. Laying down and opening her legs for us to check? Nope! She closes up like a clam. Wipe some cream down there? Just the faintest touch of my finger and the cream on the inside thigh sends her screaming for me to be nice, and she runs away.

I am so worried about infection and I just cannot get her to cooperate, no matter how much explaining, no matter how gentle or patient. How do I keep her clean and avoid infection? How do I avoid the battles and make her feel safe with her body?


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Ive never found it necessary to 'wash or wipe' during bath time. Sitting in the bath itself is usually sufficient. Too much exposure to soap, and too much 'washing' and 'wiping' is not good for her skin, and in particular, her privates. This will likely lead to a yeast infection, because it kills off the good bacteria and irritates the skin.

Just leave her alone, and let her sit in some clean water at the end of the day.

I usually dont wipe my toddler after pottying, but sometimes she wants to, and sometimes i show her. Sometimes i do it myself if i see i need to.

If i were you, i would just let her be for now, but let her sit in some bathwater at the end of the day....


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## therosyapple (Apr 15, 2013)

Thank you for the advice. We take a bath every day and most days I don't really worry about scrubbing them clean. They like to just sit and play. So she does get daily sitting time in clean bath water. But I am worried it's not enough for her. Her younger sister who is also potty trained has no issues with this same routine. But every child is different. And I really think she needs a good cleaning every now and then. It's just good hygiene to keep those bits cleaned out. But she won't even let us get that far. I should mention that she just isn't as casual as other kids. She likes to keep her legs very tightly together even when she sits. I am sure that even sitting in water every night isn't doing what it could. On the few times I am able to get in there I found evidence to suggest that this part of her body just isn't getting a proper and hygienic washing - like toilet paper from when we went to that restaurant three days ago, or cream from a rash that I applied a week ago. It's very concerning... And of course I don't want to force her, but I am out of steam...


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## rainbownurse (Dec 19, 2012)

Do you have a GP who could talk to her about?
Instead of soapy bath water, you could do salt water (very little salt), that will help


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## htovjm (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope you take my words as kindly as they are meant. This behavior is seen sometimes in a child who has been abused. This is hopefully not the case in your situation, but if you have any reason to suspect it, I would look into it. It could also be that she IS hurting from an infection and doesn't want the area touched.

With that aside, you could use funny tactics like we use with our willful toddler: There's an elephants his nose, a monkey in his ear, and sugar bugs in his teeth. We try to find them together, or well, get their poop out in the case of ears and nose  Works like a charm with him!


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

Her reaction makes me a bit suspicious that someone has touched her inappropriately as well... I would talk to her about that-explaining what inappropriate touching is and ask if someone has done that to her, etc etc that even if she swore to keep it a secret from you that this is an ok time to tell a secret, cuz whoever might have touched her was the one not being nice-to use her words...


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## therosyapple (Apr 15, 2013)

I strongly appreciate all replies. I admit that her behavior could be suspicious. If I were not myself, I might also offer this as a suggestion to someone. I myself was abused by cousin as a child. I am especially watchful for these kinds of things and understand the real possibility. But I would say this: for the sake of exhausting all options, I have spoken to her about inappropriate touching on several occasions. She says nothing that could be suspicious. And her behavior hasn't drastically changed to suggest a before and after point.

Also I am a stay at home mom. The girls are rarely out of my sight. On the occasions that I am not looking after them, which are rare, my husband or my mother watch them. No one but myself, my husband or my mother have ever watched my children. I have never hired a babysitter or asked any other family member to watch them. My girls are too young to be far from my side. So, in public places like the zoo, etc, there is little to no chance that anything inappropriate has occurred. Honestly, they are so close to my side, it is almost like they are surgically attached, no matter the environment or the group of people.

Trust me when I say that I have looked at all sides, including abuse of some kind. I have to be honest with myself that it could be a real possibility however slight. But, I think something else is far more likely. Infection maybe? But doctors have looked at her and all seems well... It seems to be a personality thing. I asked her why she wouldn't let us help her and she said because it hurts. I asked if it hurts when she wipes and cleans herself and she said no, I can do it better when I wipe. I said, so it doesn't hurt when mama or daddy help you. It just feels uncomfortable. She said yes. She is very smart and articulate and very prim and proper. She is sometimes so serious that it scares people. She has a hard time falling into imaginative suggestions. The only other thing I could come up with to try is a little squirt bottle... Otherwise, this well of ideas has run dry...


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

Ohhhh mama you know better than most then what to look out for.

I like the squirt bottle idea for her and maybe just let her know what to look for like the little bits of tp or leftover cream that needs to get rinsed out so that she doesn't get itchy or sore.


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## htovjm (Nov 9, 2011)

I am SO glad you feel like it's not abuse. I hated even suggesting it because I would never want that to be a possibility for anyone! I am just like you with my kids and if anyone ever suggested that one of my children could be being abused, I would be baffled as to how since they are almost always by my side and never alone with anyone other than their parents.

After reading your posts again, it just occurred to me that I was a very, very modest child. I remember a few incidences where my mother wanted to "inspect" me for sanitary reasons and I wailed and cried and wouldn't let her. My mom let it be. I was never molested as a child. I think it is very important to teach children about personal boundaries and their rights with their own body, so pushing the subject might be sending the wrong message.

She said she was uncomfortable with you wiping her. Maybe she is just growing in modesty. Did you say that she will try to wipe herself? If she is not doing a good job, maybe you could try buying some natural, moistened wipes. The could help get things cleaned better. You could have her pick out which one she wants from your approved choices and tell her they are hers to use.

Another option would be to add some anti-fungal essential oils to her bath water every day to help eliminate any yeasts. Might not work, but you could give it a shot.

I'm not an expert at all on this subject, but there you go. I hope you will find a solution!


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

My dd (also 3.5 and potty trained from 22ish months) sometimes gets very sensitive down there too. I think some of it has to do do with her not drinking enough water, and then I also think she is prone to yeast too. I LOVE 'better butt(er) cream' from Northern Essence. It is a diaper cream, but formulated for yeast problems. If DD is feeling sore or irritated, usually I just put the cream on one time and she is much less red overnight. It sounds like your DD may not like that, but it really helps. Anyways, may not be an option for you, but thought I would pass it on.


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

The essential oil suggestion is a great one! Don't know why I didn't think of it too! Lavender & Melaleuca (tea tree) are perfect for that sort of thing-a few drops in the bath water should do the trick and lavender is relaxing too. I recommend doTerra essential oils as they're certified pure therapeutic grade-super high quality.


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

We do lavender and tea tree in the bath. DD is 28mos and VERY independent, so anything that she can't do herself, she wants so desperately to do that she fights us. She did have a labial adhesion at like 9mos which resolved itself and occasionally DH worries about her not "getting clean" but I've not been worried - just some essential oils in the tub and she's good to go. She doesn't love being wiped, but she's learned to tolerate it for now.


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## 100%mom (Jan 12, 2007)

Please be careful with tea tree oil. Try it in a bath for you first. It burns my skin. Lavender oil is great though. Also, you can dump some apple cider vinegar in the bathwater. That works to get rid of yeast.


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## LilianL (Mar 4, 2014)

If I let my daughters sit and play in the soapy bath water after washing hair or their bodies they will end up red and sore. We now only wash at the very end of bath time and rinse with clear water from the tap before getting them out. My middle daughter, who is 4 tends to be the most irritated. I have found that if she is irritated, a baby wipe, sometimes rinsed if she is resistant to the idea or says it stings, followed by a soothing barrier cream really helps. She does all that herself and has for the last year. Just another thought in case its something that helps!


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## therosyapple (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks all! I will try the essential oils. Any brand recommendations?


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

I love doTerra!! certified pure therapeutic grade. They go through lots of testing to make sure there are no contaminants of any kind. Many of them are suitable to take internally, which isn't true of alot of brands out there.


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

I have a variety of oils, the tea tree we currently use is Desert Essence and the Lavender is Whole Foods Brand, I've also got some Aura Cacia and Mountain Rose.


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## somegirl99 (Aug 22, 2009)

If it is feasible, how about a shower with a handheld shower head once in a while? My 3.5-yo DS loves the shower and especially if he gets to hold the sprayer.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *therosyapple*
> 
> I strongly appreciate all replies. I admit that her behavior could be suspicious. If I were not myself, I might also offer this as a suggestion to someone. I myself was abused by cousin as a child. I am especially watchful for these kinds of things and understand the real possibility. But I would say this: for the sake of exhausting all options, I have spoken to her about inappropriate touching on several occasions. She says nothing that could be suspicious. And her behavior hasn't drastically changed to suggest a before and after point.


When our first member brought up abuse, I will admit that I sort of cringed because your DC's desire for autonomy right now sounds well within the range of "normal" to me. But, I'm so glad they did because it allowed us to talk more about the issue and how it affects your family. I will say, gently, that I recommend you discontinue discussions about inappropriate touching with your daughter until she is much older. I really don't think a child this age is able to process information about abuse in the way that we think of when we talk about it in this way.

I'm a big fan of water - just water. And maybe a super mild soap. But soap can sting so maybe work with just water. Baths daily and don't focus on where to wash. Kids this age can sometimes latch on to something in what seems like a defiant way if it is given a lot of energy by the parent. Better to just diffuse the situation for a while and when you've given it time you can revisit it without any of the emotion/stress. Just say something like, "Ok, stand up, I'm going to do a quick wash before you finish your bath," and then just wash her all over super quick - hitting the sensitive spots and perhaps focusing instead on the hands and feet - make it fun.

I suspect that she is trying to learn about why there is a focus on this part of the body and this is part of her way of trying to figure this out. Another thing that may help is to tell her why there is a focus - "We focus on cleaning there because that's where the pee and poop come out and that can sometimes be smelly and dirty and can make you uncomfortable if its not kept clean. We also focus on our hands because they also get dirty from touching things and playing outside." I'd do that in case there is information she is trying to learn and then work on the diffusing the energy bath routine.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Also, if it's information that she wants, maybe a book like "It's Not the Stork" or some age appropriate body book would help her. I love all of Robbie Harris's books on bodies/reproduction/puberty.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I havent caught up with this thread which no doubt contains alot of useful tips and insights. But it struck me, that i dont recall how my parents treated this issue with me. The only thing i know for sure, is that as an older child/adolesecent/young woman, i never washed my vulva with soap, or really at all. I never felt the need to. I had a shower, and used soap all over, but not there. It would have irritated me and i didnt feel the need to.

I only started using soap, and very mild soap at that, and still do to this day, after becoming sexually active. I sometimes felt the need to wash myself with soap afterwards.

So, maybe we are not meant to use soap in that area....just a thought. I hope thats not tmi.


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

My daughter was pretty independent about wiping and bathing from a young age. I never forced her to use a lot of soap at all. I would occasionally get an organic liquid soap and squirt a little in the bath. She wasn't using any soap for a while...just the suds from the small amount of shampoo she used would cleanse her. I think minimal soap kept her in the clear. Every time she went to MILs, she would use regular bubble bath and wind up with a rash down there. I know everyone is different....body type, heredity and diet can play a role, but she seems to have no issues down there and I think using little to no soap and not scrubbing helps.


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## graciegal (Jun 2, 2009)

Maybe your daughter could put some diaper rash cream on herself? My 3.5 dd is the exact same way, gets red from bad toilet wiping, says it hurts all the time down there (sometimes I wipe for her and she gets all upset saying it hurts). I made up a story once about how I was using a special wipe and it was gentle and she, miraculously, said it didnt hurt... which led me to believe it's now a routine. My daughter is a "do it once and then do it each and every time" sort of kid... your daughter may be the same way!


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## brambleberry (Oct 20, 2011)

We had some similar challenges during the 3 yr old year (not quite so bad), but seem to be mostly out of the woods now at 4. DD still gets a little rashy sometimes, but is more cooperative about the cream and cleaning now. One tip our family doctor gave us recently is to have her pee with her knees spread wide. Apparently pee is more likely to get up into the vagina if you pee with your legs close together, and then it slowly leaks out later, keeping the area wet longer. Also dabbing a second bit of toilet paper up into the vulva a little more, after first wiping front to back, can help keep things drier.


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## therosyapple (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks so much for all the help! We are wiping her as well as we can but are giving her some of the control and power. She wipes herself now and cleans herself in the bath. If there is cream that needs to be put on she does it too. Of course, we help as best as she will let us. But we don't push. I also just got the essential oils recommended. So we will start testing those in the bath water too. Also, I really liked the idea about spreading your legs to urinate.

I really think this is a modesty thing. We have always told her that those parts of her body are for her and her only. And I really think she takes that to heart. She is a very prim and proper little girl. When she runs she really prances on her tip toes. She sits with her legs straight out in front of her, her feet always crossed. She prefers dresses to shirts. She has never been a 'nudist'. She is rarely messy when she eats. I think she just loves all that sweet and proper girly stuff (think Rosalind and the little deer ).and it extends to her view of her body.

We will have to be careful to stride the line between being hygienic and respecting her space. She is 3.5 and has always been very mature. I think she may be asking for more autonomy. She seems to be fighting naps now too. And also seems to want to pitch in around the house... So. We will keep respecting her wishes.


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *100%mom*
> 
> Please be careful with tea tree oil. Try it in a bath for you first. It burns my skin. Lavender oil is great though. Also, you can dump some apple cider vinegar in the bathwater. That works to get rid of yeast.


Apple cider vinegar is great for helping the balance of an adult vulva, but it is NOT recommended pre-puberty. Baking soda (1-2 TB per bath) is a better additive to a child's bath. I learned this recently and was surprised, but after doing more research of my own, it seems to be true.

I'm a full-time nanny to a (fully potty trained) 2.75 yo girl. A few months ago, her parents and I started noticing some discharge in her undies, and redness on her vulva. They took her to the pedi he said that she had an EXTREMELY common bacterial infection. Usually brought on by tight/non-breathable clothes, too much or too vigorous wiping at toilet time, wiping the wrong way, or irritation from bubble bath/soap. His recommendation was to have her sit in backing soda baths (no soap of any kind!) three times a day, for at least 10 min each. Also as much naked time as possible, including sleeping without any undies or pants. He also had us use some sort of cream for a short time as well. Such frequent baths were quite the hassle, but seemed to do the trick.

I also really like the empowering body education outlined here. It might seem pretty basic, but it has honestly helped me a lot to have all the details and ages to remind me what is appropriate! http://themamabeareffect.org/empowering-our-children.html


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## CLplus1 (Jan 31, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soygurl*
> 
> Apple cider vinegar is great for helping the balance of an adult vulva, but it is NOT recommended pre-puberty. Baking soda (1-2 TB per bath) is a better additive to a child's bath. I learned this recently and was surprised, but after doing more research of my own, it seems to be true.
> 
> I also really like the empowering body education outlined here. It might seem pretty basic, but it has honestly helped me a lot to have all the details and ages to remind me what is appropriate! http://themamabeareffect.org/empowering-our-children.html


Do you know if ACV is ok in a boys bath? I dump a splash in the tub before me and my infant bathe. It makes our skin so soft. I tried googling but came up with nothing.

I'm going to check out your link, seems helpful.


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CLplus1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I don't have any info on wether or not ACV would be ok for boys' baths, but my assumption would be that it's fine. Two reasons I'd guess that: First, their genitalia is external, rather than internal, and doesn't have the same specific pH requirements to stay healthy. Second, the natural pH of our skin and hair is very slightly acidic, so unless your someone has some sort of issue going on (as was the case for the my nanny kid), some very diluted ACV should not cause any problems.


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CLplus1*
> 
> Do you know if ACV is ok in a boys bath? I dump a splash in the tub before me and my infant bathe. It makes our skin so soft. I tried googling but came up with nothing.
> 
> I'm going to check out your link, seems helpful.


I used to put ACV in both my daughter and son's baths for a few months. They battled molluscums for a while and I read somewhere it helps keep skin clear of certain infections (I forget which celebrity also said they put ACV in their kids' baths). I did it more with my daughter who was 5/6 at the time. I didn't notice any problem from it, but you can ask your doctor.


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