# Breathing the baby out?



## mom-to-jj (Sep 8, 2008)

I hear people talk about this all the time, basically just breathing through the pushing stage and allowing the body to birth the baby without active pushing. Is that right? You don't push at all, and the baby still comes out?

I had an epi with my DS and only pushed 4 times. I plan to go the epi route again (which, I know, makes me the







of MDC!). They say with an epidural you should "labor down" by not pushing as soon as you hit 10 and just allowing your body to work the baby down. So why would I have to push at all? Theoretically, couldn't my body just work the baby right out?


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## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

"Breathing the baby down" is a form of pushing described in the Hypnobirthing materials. It's basically pushing without holding your breath or putting your chin into your chest. The point is to not tighten the muscles around your bottom but leave them relaxed. The place to practice is on the toilet.

As far as I can tell, that terminology is not the same as letting your body push the baby out by itself.

I used the "breathing the baby down" method of pushing quite successfully with an epidural. It sort of feels like the middle of the abdomen is doing the pushing rather than the trying-to-get-out-constipation feeling of regular pushing.

Ironically, I was unable to do the "breathing the baby down" technique in my more recent unmedicated birth. Instead the fetal ejection reflex took over (a whole other story, like a freight train, where my body was pushing all by itself - but interestingly, again, NOT with my rear end but with muscles in the middle). I never realized it until this minute, but the "breathing the baby down" technique and the fetal ejection reflex seem to use similar muscles (I can't be sure unless I happen to experience the reflex again). The difference is that "breathing the baby down" is intentional and voluntary, whereas the reflex is just that - the body doing it on its own with no input from you whatsoever. Now, in the birth with the fetal ejection reflex, I was literally not able to do any breathing the baby down - it was really sort of violent - but eventually I did throw in a few traditional pushes toward the end in my zeal to get the whole thing over with









And to complicate terminology further, I think that "laboring the baby down" is a completely different thing altogether, just letting the contractions continue to do their work without your pushing. That sounds like it requires a lot of patience.

that's my two cents. I was happy with the breathing-down technique in my epidural birth, so I think it may be worth looking into for you (especially since with an epidural, there may not be the "urge" to push - I can't say I've ever really had that - and at some point someone may well ask you to push. When I used the breathing-down technique with the epidural, no one had any idea that I wasn't doing traditional pushing. I was the only one who knew.)


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

To add to what the PP said, my understanding about "laboring down" when you have an epi is that when you get to 10cm, the baby may not be low in the pelvis. If the baby is too high, then pushing hasn't been showing to speed delivery and will tire you out before the time when pushing could be helpful. It's better to "labor down" by letting the uterus do the work until the baby is lower in the pelvis. It's a "save your strength" strategy.

I pushed b/c the contractions were driving me crazy and pushing made that feeling go away. I guess I was compelled to push (no epi). DD was OP and asleep, so it took a long time. She wasn't born until she woke up to twist and kick herself out. I was tired by then. If I had been able to rest through the contractions, I wonder if I would have even needed to push.


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## mom-to-jj (Sep 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snowmom5* 
"Breathing the baby down" is a form of pushing described in the Hypnobirthing materials. It's basically pushing without holding your breath or putting your chin into your chest. The point is to not tighten the muscles around your bottom but leave them relaxed. The place to practice is on the toilet.

I used the "breathing the baby down" method of pushing quite successfully with an epidural. It sort of feels like the middle of the abdomen is doing the pushing rather than the trying-to-get-out-constipation feeling of regular pushing.

So do I need to get the Hypnobirthing course to learn to do this, or are you basically saying it's simply more relaxed pushing since you keep breathing through it instead of holding your breath?

With my epi, I knew exactly when to push and wanted to. There was no pain, but I felt pressure, like I needed to have a BM. I'm assuming (and hoping) it will be the same again.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FernG* 
To add to what the PP said, my understanding about "laboring down" when you have an epi is that when you get to 10cm, the baby may not be low in the pelvis. If the baby is too high, then pushing hasn't been showing to speed delivery and will tire you out before the time when pushing could be helpful. It's better to "labor down" by letting the uterus do the work until the baby is lower in the pelvis. It's a "save your strength" strategy.

How do I know how low the baby is? Do I just ask the OB what station she's at and then flatly refuse to push until she's lower?


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## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom-to-jj* 
So do I need to get the Hypnobirthing course to learn to do this, or are you basically saying it's simply more relaxed pushing since you keep breathing through it instead of holding your breath?

With my epi, I knew exactly when to push and wanted to. There was no pain, but I felt pressure, like I needed to have a BM. I'm assuming (and hoping) it will be the same again.

I never took a Hypnobirthing course. I just read the book (I also listened to the cd, but I don't remember that as pertaining to the breathing-down technique). Unfortunately I can't find the book, which is driving me crazy because I wanted to review a couple quick things. It's somewhere in the house; I'm sure I'll find it a few months after the baby comes.







:

In the book (also check the hypnobirthing website discussion boards), I think there is discussion of visualizing breathing the baby out - I think it's called a J-breath (as in, breathing down and out the front of your body would form a "J"). But I don't think that's absolutely necessary to know in order to do the breath.

Maybe someone who is currently doing hypnobirthing will pipe in here. I do think it would be helpful and important to practice during BMs on the toilet so that doing it becomes second nature in the moment during labor. Give it a try, see what you think.


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## mama_Agnieszka (Apr 21, 2005)

I've done no hypnobirthing (would like to try with my #3 just to enjoy the birth maybe a little longer), and both my homebirths were very quick. But, I did not have to do any intentional pushing at all. My body pushed on its own. My job was to keep breathing through it and to maybe resist just a little bit. At least, the midwives suggested I hold back just a little bit in order to avoid tearing...That was with my first. I had an unattended with my second (the midwife was late) and didn't even know I was pushing my dd out! Just a powerful contraction and there she was in the water... So, in my experience, the pushing is not something that I had to intentionally do - only focus on slowing it down.


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom-to-jj* 
How do I know how low the baby is? Do I just ask the OB what station she's at and then flatly refuse to push until she's lower?

Do some research and decide what station you think you want to start pushing at after you are dilated. During labor, you can definitely ask where the baby is. In your birthplan, you can put that after you are dilated, you want to wait for the epi to wear off so that you can feel what you are doing and can move into better positions. As long as you and the baby are doing well, there is no rush.


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## MamaChicken (Aug 21, 2006)

Ina May Gaskin talks about breathing in her books. That's where I learned it.

With DD, I just exhaled long and slow. At the end of the breath, the ab muscles tighten down to expell the last bit of breath. This added to my body's pushing brought my daughter out. I kept a relaxed face and neck. Worked perfectly!


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## alinajoy (Dec 9, 2006)

After Hypnobirthing classes, I was able to practice the down breathing for a month or so before labor(on the toilet). I absolutely "breathed the baby down" through labor without any pushing. For me it was a combination of breathing and a low moaning sound that helped me direct attention to the right area. I know that it is different for everyone. I never had the instinct, desire or involuntary need to push at any point. I only pushed twice at the end because I thought I "had to" based on the midwife telling me to but I think I could have birthed DD without it.

I have a friend who also had a home hypnobirth and the breathing down did not "click" for her at all, it ended up being useless for her. She felt like she needed to actively push in her labor to bring the baby down and out.

TMI: I still use my down or J breathing in the bathroom! it is amazing and i will absolutely use it if we have another baby


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## AmberLynn (Dec 2, 2008)

My mom taught me at an early age to not strain on the toilet for any reason. I, in the back of my mind, was wondering if that would have an effect on my birthing my son. I watched my bf give birth last week, and she had a double epi (wore off at 10 CM and they opted to give her an immediate shot to numb her again) so she was unable to feel any contractions or feel anything at all. Her labor only last 13 hours from start (bloody show) to finish. They had to use a vaccuum because she was unable to get him below her pelvic bone. They were telling her to push over and over and over, and I watched her grow extremely tired. She pushed for 2 1/2 hours. Dr made fun of her for coning the babies head by letting him sit in there for so long. I was really irritated by that... He even told her that most of the coning on babies head was thanks to her and not the vacuum... =/ but, this dr also didn't test her a second time for GD even when she gained 60 lbs and was one HUGE dimpling swollen piece of flesh from head to toe (literally, her entire body was so swollen it was dimpling like playdo) and when the baby went to the nicu for 9 days, he seemed surprised when babies blood sugar wouldn't regulate.

Anyhow, my point of this is, I don't push on the toilet. I let gravity (changing positions, rocking back and forth, etc) do its thing.. which works most of the time.. I was wondering if this would also be effective for birthing.. So now I guess I see it can! I am going to look for more reading material on this. I've read all Ina May's books.. so I know the importance of breathing... now I would like to learn the most effective way to push without straining so much I give myself multiple hemorrhoids (my gf's struggling to recover from hers that are massive! on top of stitches from an episiotomy and it sounds absolutely awful!!!!!!!!)

So this thread is great!


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## veganmama719 (Sep 15, 2007)

I am part way through the Hypnobabies self-study course and they are just starting to talk about "aaahhh" breathing. I guess with traditional pushing and breathing methods (lips pursed), you tighten up down there and it makes it harder so they recommend breathing out with your mouth open and saying ahhhh.

I am sure going to try it since I pushed DS for 2.5 hours (2nd baby!) and still have hemmoroids from that. Lovely.


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## Cali2SC (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi all.

We took the hypnobirth class too. What I took from the class was that breathing the baby down was gentle pushing with relaxed breathing, not the purple-in-the-face directed pushing that women are sometimes asked to do.

This thread got me thinking and I found my book to re-read those sections. Turns out I was wrong! (bad student







)

According to my hypnobirth book, "Birth Breathing is used when you are breathing your baby down during the birthing phase of labor. It is intended to assist the Natural Expulsive Reflex of your body to move your baby gently down to crowning and birth. Birth Breathing is NOT pushing."

I think the idea is to use the breathing and relaxation techniques to relax and open your birth path so that the baby may pass through without restriction.

For the actual technique of breathing the hypnobirth book says: " When you feel the onset of a surge, follow it. Take in a short, but deep, breath through your nose and direct the energy of that breath to the lower back of your throat and down through your body behind your baby in the form of a "J"- down and forward. Allow all the muscles in your vaginal area to open as though your were letting the breath out through them or moving your bowels. Don't ride out or hang on to a breath beyond its effectiveness and don't allow those lower muscles to tighten."

It goes on to say that you repeat this process taking as many of these birthing breaths as needed during a surge.

It seems to me that the book would be good (comes with the relaxation cd) to learn the techniques. The class was nice, but maybe not necessary.

As this is our first baby, I can't say if this technique will work for me. And clearly I have a lot of reading to do, since I didn't quite "get it" in the class.









Hope this helps!


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## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cali2SC* 
According to my hypnobirth book, "Birth Breathing is used when you are breathing your baby down during the birthing phase of labor. It is intended to assist the Natural Expulsive Reflex of your body to move your baby gently down to crowning and birth. Birth Breathing is NOT pushing."

I think the idea is to use the breathing and relaxation techniques to relax and open your birth path so that the baby may pass through without restriction.

In practice it seems to me just to be a different kind of pushing, using different muscles, more in the middle (I notice it most on top of the abdomen) rather than muscles that are closer to your rear end (and may be more restricting). I think they say it's not pushing mainly to get across the point that it's different from traditional pushing, but I call it pushing because the ultimate function is the same - getting the baby out once you're fully dilated. Thanks for quoting the book - I'm so irritated that I can't find mine! Be sure to differentiate for yourself, in your mind, the difference between this breathing-the-baby-down, J-breath thing, and the "slow breathing" which is more for allowing the cervix to open at an earlier point in labor.

Quote:


Originally Posted by
It seems to me that the book would be good (comes with the relaxation cd) to learn the techniques. The class was nice, but maybe not necessary.

I never took the class - I only had the book and the cd. For me, I found the breathing-down technique to be useful in my epidural birth, but not in my unmedicated birth (because the reflex was so overpowering). In both, I found the slow breathing to be useful primarily for pre-labor contractions, in those final weeks - allowing them to get some work done dilating that cervix (both times I was 3 cm prior to active labor). I also found the slow breathing to be useful during the beginning part of active labor, for the same reason. Eventually, for me, active labor became too intense to use the slow breathing.

I can say that the breathing techniques helped me from a functional standpoint in terms of the importance of relaxing the appropriate tissues so that the contractions could do their work. However, I cannot say that they provided any relief from pain whatsoever for me (not that I was well-practiced at the relaxation/hypnosis stuff - I was not). I was tempted to try Hypnobabies this time, but instead I've decided just to go in with the tools I already have. In my unmedicated birth I kinda developed my own little way of breathing, since it was a fast/intense labor with no break between contractions and the hypnobirthing "slow breathing" was literally not possible (it was kind of like how I would breath if I were running very strenuously - I was just trying to keep it even so that I wouldn't pass out or something - but it seemed to work pretty darn well, in retrospect; not that it helped with the pain either but between the breathing, the concentrating on keeping my rear end relaxed while every single other muscle in my body felt like it was contracting at once, and the random thoughts and songs playing in my head, I was plenty occupied).

So yes for useful breathing techniques though for me I didn't get much of a pain management technique out of it. Assuming my next labor is as intense, I can only pray that it's as mercifully short as last time. I think that the most important thing I got out of reading the hypnobirthing book was the idea of giving in, or surrendering, to the labor, not fighting it (try not to curl your toes!!!). Fighting it only makes it less efficient and more painful, it seems.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snowmom5* 
"Breathing the baby down" is a form of pushing described in the Hypnobirthing materials. It's basically pushing without holding your breath or putting your chin into your chest. The point is to not tighten the muscles around your bottom but leave them relaxed. The place to practice is on the toilet.


I had no idea that's what it was! That was my births - I wouldn't dare let a doctor "count" for me or hold me up or anything like that. Nature is a wonderful thing, and I love that my body knew exactly what it needed to do!


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