# She gave dd formula:(



## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I know this is probably a huge overreaction, which is why I'm venting here instead of IRL, but I'm so sad....

Yesterday my mom gave my dd formula for the first time while babysitting her.

Admittedly I hadn't pumped enough, BUT there was some rice milk in there and I had told her to stretch the bm with a little rice milk to make a full bottle. DD hates the bottle anyway, so most of the time my milk just gets poured down the drain after the first ounce or so. I only work 3-4 days a week, I work 5 minutes from my house, and I wait tables, in the evenings/overnights only, so most of the time I'm not at work for more than 5 hours anyway. So I don't see there being a nutritional need for formula if we are only taling a few ounces a week. I just don't want to start down that path especially since I am struggling with depression and breastfeeeding means I HAVE to keep dd with me all the time and that is a good thing in my situation. It keeps me from running off and neglecting my family when I'm having a rough day.

There are lots of issues with my mom but she is the only sitter I have right now. I am 90% sure the whole thing was premeditated since she was only about a 2 minute drive from my house when she went and bought formula (amd she bought Earth's Best soy, which means she had to go LOOKING for it since most places don't carry that). She claims that she didn't have time to go home and get the bottle of pumped milk. But she had time to walk through a department store with a screaming baby, find the formula, find distilled water, find a bottle, pay for it all, and then mix it up in the car?

I know that one bottle is not the end of the world and that dd isn't destined for a lifetime of suffering or anything. In the big picture, I guess it's not that serious. But it's always been a point of pride for me that my kids had never had formula, solely due to my dogged efforts to give them only my milk even when it was extremely hard. So...it just bugs me, is all.

I'm halfway hoping dd has a really nasty poop or something so i'll have a legitimate reason to say "don't ever feed my child that again."


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I'm halfway hoping dd has a really nasty poop or something so i'll have a legitimate reason to say "don't ever feed my child that again."

You have a legitimate reason without that. You're the mom.

I'd be quite POd at my mom if she did that. Yes, sounds deliberate. She could have also called you... "hey, she's out of milk, what do you want me to do?" All of those made more sense than what she did.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

It sounds to me like you are upset for the right reasons.

I know your mom's heart was in the right place though. She probably thought that since the baby hates bottles, that maybe she would like it better if it was formula. Maybe Grandma would rescue the situation with a magic cure. Maybe the baby would be happy the rest of the night, and everybody would get a good night's sleep.









She also bought earth's best... so, clearly she was trying to do what she thought would be the best thing. I bet that stuff is more expensive too!

Obviously, Grandma loves her grandbabies. She just wanted to do a good thing.

I'd just try to make sure you always have enough pumped milk next time. Maybe stretch it yourself with rice milk before your mom has a chance to take things into her own hands. Gently tell her to use breast milk only unless it's an ABSOLUTE emergency. Just explain to her what you said.

Quote:

But it's always been a point of pride for me that my kids had never had formula, solely due to my dogged efforts to give them only my milk even when it was extremely hard.
She wants you and your kids to be happy. But, you just need to explain it to her in a way that makes her understand. Otherwise, she's just going to be thinking "You kids had formula and you did just fine". "You kids didn't have carseats and you did fine" "You drank from the hose..." "I fed you pizza when you were six days old...". (facts get fuzzy after age 40)


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Oh, I remember you/your mom now. Your mother is extremely toxic, I'm sorry to say. I'm a total stranger but I have no doubt it was 110% deliberate. She has been deliberately undermining you your whole life. I hope you successfully get away from your mother soon.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I just don't want to start down that path especially since I am struggling with depression and breastfeeeding means I HAVE to keep dd with me all the time and that is a good thing in my situation.

I am *so impressed* that you have come to that realization. You are wise beyond your years and your experience.

I suffered from PPD with my last baby and I thought that it was best handled by distancing myself from him whenever I could. After all, worrying about his care made me anxious, so the more he was cared for by others, the less anxiety I would have, right?

Wrong! Sadly circumstances (another child in the hospital) led to us weaning at age eight weeks.









With this upcoming baby I am determined to handle PPD completely differently. I intend to keep baby *close* to me. If I'm feeling anxious, the solution is _more_ baby, not less.

I totally understand why you're upset and yet you are rational enough to know that it won't ultimately be a harmful thing for baby to have one bottle of formula.

You are doing _amazingly_ well! I feel certain that everything will work out wonderfully for you and your little ones. You inspire me!


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yes, I'd be mad. I'd also do everything in my power to find someone else to keep your dd. Clearly, your mother knows no bounds.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I'd be PISSED big time! I think you need to very clearly (write it down if need be) tell her what an emergency is. I'd also confiscate what is left of the formula 'cause leaving it with her is just asking for her to do it again without asking.


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## Artichokie (Jun 19, 2007)

I would be out of my mind furious. I am so sorry.


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## RhianaW14 (May 12, 2009)

Hugs!!
My mother in law insisted the my son needed a pacifier, but he never used them. We left the kids w/ her for a few hours to go out to eat and a movie and she had had her neighbor run to the store to get him pacifiers!! I had to laugh when she said he didn't take it. Well, duh, I told you that! Now she knows better. I just don't let her babysit when they are babies. lol

How did she know to use soy and not milk based? That stuff is also hard to find. At least here it is. Most stores don't carry organic formula here.


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## SarahDC (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Artichokie* 
I would be out of my mind furious. I am so sorry.

Me too. I would go bananas on my mother if she pulled this. You are your baby's mama, so YOU decide what she eats!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

While in this case, it seems like she sort of went out of her way to feed formula instead of breastmilk (because you don't leave home with a baby without their milk, and it sounds like you had bm at home for her?), and while you mom is a toxic person (from other posts I've read from you) - I just want to point out that rice milk is not a good substitute for breastmilk, even in small amounts. I think it's better for your dd to have formula supplementation if they run out of milk than rice milk, right?


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
Admittedly I hadn't pumped enough, BUT there was some rice milk in there and I had told her to stretch the bm with a little rice milk to make a full bottle.

I realize the situation is more complicated than this and it does seem as though she perhaps was looking for an occasion to feed formula, and I would be ticked about that too. But as an aside, I would not recommend stretching expressed breastmilk for an infant with rice milk any more than I would recommend stretching it with water. The expressed milk becomes nutritionally diluted. Honestly when there is not enough expressed milk and the child is under one I do think the difference should be made up with formula.


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## angelachristin (Apr 13, 2007)

if it was me I'd be beyond insane beside myself out of my mind furious. And I'd be even more furious that it was soy, which I avoid like the plague for my kids and myself.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm sorry you are upset, but I do agree that formula, probably even the soy version she bought, is better than supplementing with rice milk. I know you don't want your babies to have any formula, but really, using even a small amount of rice milk is the same thing (except less nutritious).

Not knowing how toxic your mom is (just read the pp mentioned it), I would wonder I she truly was trying to do what she thought was best at the time. Did she know how long it would be until you were off work and could nurse the baby?


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## crystal_buffaloe (Apr 30, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
I'd also confiscate what is left of the formula 'cause leaving it with her is just asking for her to do it again without asking.











You sound _much_ calmer about this than I would be.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
She claims that she didn't have time to go home and get the bottle of pumped milk.

Holy mother of god, I would be _angry_.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

so...update....I confronted her, gently, about whether it really was logical to go buy formula when she was less than 5 minutes from the house...she changed her story, and ds comfirmed it, that she ALREADY had the formula before she even came to my house. All she had to do was mix it up and feed to dd. She said she had bought it on her way to babysit "just in case." So basically she had planned to give it to dd whether or not I pumped enough.

it's neither here nor there now, but dd had horrible gas and a hard tummy all day yesterday and took a really nasty poop that was much darker and thicker than anything i've ever seen come out of her. Her farts stunk horribly too. That was the main reason I've been using rice milk, because even though there's no nutritional value, it is super easy to digest, and according to my 2 yo taste-tester, lol, it tastes like breastmilk and I don't think a few ounces a week are going to stunt her development.

It is really, really hard for me to pump right now, but knowing that dd can't live off rice milk, having it in the house doesn't leave open the temptation for me to go off and say "just give her a bottle" whereas having formula in the house would lead to exactly that.


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## goldenwillow (Jan 5, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Oh, I remember you/your mom now. Your mother is extremely toxic, I'm sorry to say. I'm a total stranger but I have no doubt it was 110% deliberate. She has been deliberately undermining you your whole life. I hope you successfully get away from your mother soon.


Sorry, but I completely agree. This is your child, not hers.


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## lynsage (Jul 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
You have a legitimate reason without that. You're the mom.


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## smpayne (Oct 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
It is really, really hard for me to pump right now, but knowing that dd can't live off rice milk, having it in the house doesn't leave open the temptation for me to go off and say "just give her a bottle" whereas having formula in the house would lead to exactly that.

I am truely inspired at your efforts to combat your PPD.

Maybe it is time to call in some reinforcements. Do you have a LLL (or other pro bf moms group) in your area? Maybe some of those moms would be willing to "educate" your mom, sometimes having an outsider back you up will do more to enforce your view point and ANYTHING you could do or say, and at the same time give you some face to face encouragement.


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## EarthMamaToBe (Feb 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
I'm sorry you are upset, but I do agree that formula, probably even the soy version she bought, is better than supplementing with rice milk. I know you don't want your babies to have any formula, but really, using even a small amount of rice milk is the same thing (except less nutritious).

Not knowing how toxic your mom is (just read the pp mentioned it), I would wonder I she truly was trying to do what she thought was best at the time. Did she know how long it would be until you were off work and could nurse the baby?

I agree with this post

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
so...update....I confronted her, gently, about whether it really was logical to go buy formula when she was less than 5 minutes from the house...she changed her story, and ds comfirmed it, that she ALREADY had the formula before she even came to my house. All she had to do was mix it up and feed to dd. She said she had bought it on her way to babysit "just in case." So basically she had planned to give it to dd whether or not I pumped enough.

it's neither here nor there now, but dd had horrible gas and a hard tummy all day yesterday and took a really nasty poop that was much darker and thicker than anything i've ever seen come out of her. Her farts stunk horribly too. That was the main reason I've been using rice milk, because even though there's no nutritional value, it is super easy to digest, and according to my 2 yo taste-tester, lol, it tastes like breastmilk and I don't think a few ounces a week are going to stunt her development.

It is really, really hard for me to pump right now, but knowing that dd can't live off rice milk, having it in the house doesn't leave open the temptation for me to go off and say "just give her a bottle" *whereas having formula in the house would lead to exactly that*.

I don't get why having it is a temptation for you? DS is EBF but I would give him formula before I would give him rice milk to "fill out" a bottle. Formula at least has the nutrients he needs.


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## purplepaperclip (May 19, 2008)

I would be angry too, but you simply cannot stretch breastmilk with rice milk for an infant! If you do not have enough breastmilk and no available donor milk, infant formula is the appropriate substitute. Rice milk might as well be water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
and I don't think a few ounces a week are going to stunt her development.

It is really, really hard for me to pump right now, but knowing that dd can't live off rice milk, having it in the house doesn't leave open the temptation for me to go off and say "just give her a bottle" whereas having formula in the house would lead to exactly that.

I agree. I would be livid mad and additionally disturbed that she went out and bought it before hand and didn't even bother asking what kind you would want.


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## myk (Nov 24, 2006)

i would be LIVID if someone fed my kid formula without my approval. in fact, a nurse did when she was first born and that led to a milk allergy







so i totally hear you.

however, i have to respectfully agree that if there is not enough breast milk available, formula is the appropriate backup choice, not rice milk. that is not to diminish your feelings about breastfeeding - believe me, i completely sympathize as i had a challenging experience myself - but strictly from a nutritional perspective.

i hope she understands your feelings from here on in and respects your choices.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Rice milk in particular is a poor choice of substitutes due to trace arsenic concerns; the U.K. FDA equivalent recently issued a statement advising it not be given to children under about age four, for example.

If you don't want a big tin of formula around it can be purchased in individual use packets, or ready-to-serve. Both are more expensive, but shouldn't be prohibitively so for occasional use.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Why is most of it getting poured down the drain? Can you freeze it in small amounts so thats less likely to happen? And, a BM bottle can be put in the fridge to be saved for later - so it shouldn't just be getting dumped.

Otherwise, everyone else is right, rice milk is a poor substitute.


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## kaylee18 (Dec 25, 2005)

Oh wow, I can relate to all of this - intentionally not allowing formula in the house, and having it as a point of pride that your lo has never needed anything other than mama's milk. I would have been very, very upset if my baby had been given formula instead of breastmilk when there was breastmilk available (and it sounds as if there was, at least some, that wasn't used).

If most of your pumped milk is getting wasted at the moment, then you are making at least a little _more_ than the baby needs, not less, and if you can adjust how it's handled, then you shouldn't have any need to resort to rice milk (which can be very harmful to gut flora and proper iron absorption, even in small amounts) or formula at all. Breastmilk can be stored in the back of the fridge, as long as it was never frozen, for 5-7 days. Using a sterile or sanitized container for pumping and storage, rather than one that was just cleaned with soap and water, should get you closer to the full 7 days before any spoilage.

Unlike formula, fresh breastmilk does not need to be poured out of a partially used bottle - it can be refrigerated and used again. Breastmilk has antibacterial properties that formula doesn't, which is why it isn't dangerous to store partially used bottles. If rice milk or formula has been added, though, then it would not be safe to store, so there's another reason not to "stretch" breastmilk.

To conserve it best, though, the baby should get bottles with only the amount she typically eats at a time (1 or 2 ounces); the caregiver can always give more if she finishes it. The same goes for freezing; if you're having to keep it longer than a week, freeze in an ice cube tray (less than full so the cubes will fit in the neck of the bottle) or those Sensible Lines trays and then transfer the 1oz cubes into a freezer zip bag. Then only thaw what the baby will drink; having smaller amounts frozen also reduces thawing time so that the baby will not have to wait long for it to be ready.

And sit down with the baby's grandmother and have an open talk about why she resorted to lying to you, in addition to doing what she knew you didn't want to do. It would have been one thing if she used the formula after the breastmilk was gone instead of rice milk (which would have been somewhat reasonable although she should have discussed it with you first); but to leave the breastmilk in the fridge and give only formula, and then to lie about the circumstances? That is strange, potentially hostile behavior, and I would want to get to the very bottom of it.


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## iamleabee (Jul 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplepaperclip* 
I would be angry too, but you simply cannot stretch breastmilk with rice milk for an infant! If you do not have enough breastmilk and no available donor milk, infant formula is the appropriate substitute. Rice milk might as well be water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_









that:

i would be very hard pressed to feed ricemilk to any infant left in my care, even if the mother expressly asked me to. you can stretch breastmilk with donor milk or formula, not other "milks" or other liquids.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Oh wow, there are a lot of issues here.

Deliberately feeding your baby formula when you expressly asked her not to is not OK. But maybe she knew rice milk wasn't good for a baby, especially one who is only a few months old? I would be really conscientious about making sure I had more than enough breastmilk there next time. I'd rather have a little breastmilk go to waste than have my baby fed formula without my permission. But I do agree with the posters here who stated that rice milk, even just a little to stretch the breastmilk, is just not nutritionally acceptable for a three month old baby. kaylee18 had some good advice on not wasting pumped milk as well.

I'm sorry this happened.


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## AllyRae (Dec 10, 2003)

I don't know the backstory with your mom, but I do want to say...rice milk contains large amounts of arsenic and very little nutrients. The fact that your baby was fed an organic soy non gmo formula was actually probably a bit healthier for the baby. Rice milk also says on the box not to give it to babies (probably the arsenic and the nutrient thing...), and so maybe your mom read that and wigged?

I know it sucks to have your parenting boundaries crossed, and I'm sorry she did that. But at least rest in knowing that your baby had a healthy alternative when your little one was still hungry.







:


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I am sorry she did not give your child the breastmilk. I wouldn't have been ok with that at all.









If someone told me to give a baby ricemilk I would say no. That is just not appropriate for an infant. Sometimes we have to face choices and we might need to use tools we would rather not in order to do the best thing for our children. The best thing for your child is not ricemilk. Ricemilk is not nutritionally adequate for a baby.

I do think you will be happier looking back and thinking "I made the right choices for my kids" than "my child never had a drop of formula" My own child had some formula and it was necessary at that time.

Pumping is extremely hard, I do understand it is rough, that is also making the best choice for your child.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

While I understand your frustration all of the PPs are correct - rice milk is not appropriate for an infant, especially one as young as your DD. If you are not able to provide adequate breastmilk while you are at work then formula really is the best choice.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

i am not sure why everyone would get LIVID at the use of a non GMO organic formula over rice milk. i have no idea about your back story with your mom, so i am sorry she did what she did especially if she did it to undermine your parenting.
but if your baby needs a bit of rice milk every time she watches her, then maybe having the formula there is better then having the rice milk.
here is a bit of a story: my dd for some unknown reason would not take breastmilk from a bottle. but she would take formula. i would pump and pump and it would go to waste. my SIL who was watching her gave her some formula she had and the kid drank it up. it was weird. she still nursed like a champ when i was home with her. it was upsetting to me, i pumped for months, but she would drool it out, refuse to take a bottle, cry and cry. none of my other kids did this. but maybe this is the issue? or not. just a thought.
hugs either way.

h


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## Cukup (Jul 31, 2009)

Honestly I believe your mom did the right thing. Rice milk - as you even state - has no nutitional value, so why feed it to a baby?

Your mom was in a bad situation with not enough BM, and a terrible substitute - the rice milk.

Kudos to her for thinking rationally enough to feed your hungry baby.

There's no need for you to use formula if you BF but you need an acceptable substitute for other carers, and rice milk is not it.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Actually, OP hasn't given enough information to really decide if grandma did the right thing. She has said that grandma bought formula on the way to her house, presumably to babysit while OP worked. She has also said that she did have breastmilk in her house at the time. If there was enough breastmilk for her baby to be filled without having to use rice milk, then grandma was absolutely in the wrong. Absolutely. If there was not enough breastmilk, then grandma was right.

OP, try PP's suggestions for proper utilization and storage of breastmilk, to prevent any from being poured down the drain. If you still aren't making enough breastmilk for your baby, then supplementing with formula is the only nutritionally complete way to make sure your baby gets full.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

I havent told her this, but I simply can't pump enought to 'afford' to have my mom baby sit!

I don't think your mom is terrible, but I would explain about over feeding, paced bottle feeding, tell her how much you expect dc to eat, and how to use bm responsibly. Also, I'd asked to be called if you ever run out of breast milk.

OP I can go on and on about this. It's sad how many working mom's have their breastfeeding attempts sabotaged by well meaning care givers.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
Actually, OP hasn't given enough information to really decide if grandma did the right thing. She has said that grandma bought formula on the way to her house, presumably to babysit while OP worked. She has also said that she did have breastmilk in her house at the time.

OP, try PP's suggestions for proper utilization and storage of breastmilk, to prevent any from being poured down the drain. If you still aren't making enough breastmilk for your baby, then supplementing with formula is the only nutritionally complete way to make sure your baby gets full.


This is not always correct for working mama's. It's easy for caregivers to over feed a child. It's not horrible to tide a child over with water ( I dunno how I feel about rice milk) if she's hungry at the end of the work day, so that mama can feed baby when she gets there.

It's horrible to tell a new mama that she's not making enough bm, when in reality her child is being overfed (I"m not sure that's the case here)

_Regardless_, this dc is the OP's child, not granny's. Grandma should have follwed mama's instruction regarding food. Grandma was wrong.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
It's easy for caregivers to over feed a child.

Except that this isn't the case for the OP as she stated in her original post that she knew that she didn't have enough pumped milk for that day. Regardless, rice milk is not an appropriate breastmilk substitute for a baby that young.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Except that this isn't the case for the OP as she stated in her original post that she knew that she didn't have enough pumped milk for that day. Regardless, rice milk is not an appropriate breastmilk substitute for a baby that young.

she also stated that her mom routinely dumped milk. I do agree that rice milk is not an acceptable long term solution for a breastfed child. At the sametime, I do think this mama's wishes should have been honored.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
she also stated that her mom routinely dumped milk. I do agree that rice milk is not an acceptable long term solution for a breastfed child. At the sametime, I do think this mama's wishes should have been honored.

But this is the reason that the breastmilk is being dumped:

Quote:

DD hates the bottle anyway, so most of the time my milk just gets poured down the drain after the first ounce or so.
If most of the breastmilk is being dumped, and she already acknowledged that she didn't have enough ounces available for a day's supply for grandma it seems that some kind of supplementation is going to be necessary. Smaller bottles may save some of the waste but even for a few ounces a week formula is the logical and appropriate substitute for her child, not rice milk.


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## PatioGardener (Aug 11, 2007)

it may also help to know that, unlike formula, breastmilk can be kept in the fridge and 're-used' after giving a bottle that baby doesn't finish.

nak


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I would very very angry. But that assumes I left adequate food (rejected or not).

D
But...you said you didn't leave enough to feed her and left some rice milk to stretch it. You put your mother in a terrible position if that is the case. This is for a four month old? This does not sound like an adequate plan to me. Rice milk is not adequate nutrition for a four moth old but formula supplementation would be. Has this happened before? More than once? Did your mom buy the formula knowing that this could happen again?

I strongly support nursing and pumping moms and I don't know anything about your relationship with her but on the face of it it sounds like she is a deeply worried grandma trying to do what is right (but not making necessarily wise choices).


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I really do understand the pressure to get the bottle filled and I understand that the rice milk helps you relieve a little pressure. But again, a hungry baby needs food and rice milk is not food for a baby.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

I'm with the others who said formula is an appropriate breastmilk sub, while rice milk just isn't.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

I would be mad too! It's not like she even supplemented with formula, she substituted! That's worse! I don't for a moment believe that she did it out of some concern that rice-milk is inappropriate, if that was the case she would have used the breastmilk first, or if she was a healthy person she would have discussed her concerns about the rice milk.

OP, I also agree that rice-milk is not ideal, but I can totally see where you're coming from too, and if it truly is a case where having formula in the house would result in the quick end of breastfeeding and worsening of depression then I can even see how the rice-milk might be the lesser of two evils. There were some suggestions about trying to make the EBM go further up-thread, I hope something works (and you manage to get your mother to comply) so you don't have to make any more hard decisions about supplementation.


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## leafwood (Jun 15, 2004)

first, i would be a mess if someone did that (even my mom). second, can you get a freezer stash going? at around 2m pp i started pumping for 10-15 minutes each morning. at first i got nothing but then i quickly got up to 7-10oz per morning session which added up quickly b/c most of the time the baby did not even eat it. then, i would still pump while away if he took a bottle. long story short, i wound up donating the extra milk but we never ran out. hopefully this can be an option for you.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

OP, just an FYI, breastmilk not used at one feeding can be used at the next feeding.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

OMG I would be furious. You must be a saint!!


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

Um...it seems like you are ignoring all the posts telling you that rice milk is NOT an acceptable substitue for breastmilk. Formula isn't an evil substance used to slowly kill your baby and in this case is much better for the proper growth of your child.

I am going to put this in caps just so you can see it.

RICE MILK HAS BEEN FOUND TO HAVE ARSENIC IN IT. YA KNOW, CANCER CAUSING ARESENIC, THE KIND USED IN PESTICIDES.

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/stud...enic-rice-milk

So now you decide if formula (a good substitute for breastmilk, nutritionally adequate and a proper food source) is worse than Rice milk (a horrible food source for infants with no nutritional value and many risks).


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

So, just out of curiosity, is supplementing with a little bit of rice milk significantly different than early introduction of small amounts of rice cereal and water? I'm not saying it should be anybody's "plan a", but there are several generations of functioning humans that had rice and water, and many other things, early on and most survived in reasonable health. Is it really a bad enough choice to warrant the hostility and aggression in some of the previous posts?


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## Banana731 (Aug 4, 2006)

Jack Newman feels like _actual food_ is appropriate to supplement a 4 month old who needs to be supplemented. He is very anti-formula.

I would be livid if someone fed my child formula. I think formula is better than starvation, and that's about it. From the OPs post, I don't think that her dd is in danger of starvation. She works for 5 hour shifts, 3-4 times a week. She most likely feeds her baby immediately before and after. Her mother is obviously wasting breastmilk if it's going down the drain, she might not even need to supplement with anything with better care and feeding practices.

OP- if your baby doesn't like to use a bottle, you can try a dropper, cup, or syringe. And breastmilk does not have to be thrown down the drain if she doesn't finish it at a feeding! If for some reason she just doen't want to take EBM, you might want to check to see if your milk has a high lipase content. Taste some milk that you have expressed in the fridge and if it tastes "soapy" or funny in some way, that may be your problem. The lipase in breastmilk helps break down fat to make it easier to digest, for some moms with high amounts of lipase it happens right away in pumped milk and baby doesn't always like the taste. It can be remedied by scalding the milk as soon as you pump it before long term storage. Scalded breastmilk is still far superior to formula in terms of nutrition.

Please get in contact with some of your local LLL leaders. They will be able to help you get the most out of your pumping sessions and expressed milk.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachelsmama* 
So, just out of curiosity, is supplementing with a little bit of rice milk significantly different than early introduction of small amounts of rice cereal and water? I'm not saying it should be anybody's "plan a", but there are several generations of functioning humans that had rice and water, and many other things, early on and most survived in reasonable health. Is it really a bad enough choice to warrant the hostility and aggression in some of the previous posts?

Since both rice milk and rice cereal contain unacceptable levels of arsenic, I'd say they're both pretty crummy choices for an open-gut babe.

And sure, the people who survived and are healthy survived and are healthy, but we don't hear a lot from the ones who died of malnutrition or early cancer.


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## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

I have always found it impossible to have "enough" pumped breastmilk on hand when leaving a baby with a caregiver who didn't understand how to handle it and wouldn't accept my explanations. Basically, some people, including otherwise lovely people, WILL dump a half-finished bottle and WILL feed a baby more EBM than they should have, to the point where they throw it all up. Same baby + same amount of EBM + educable pro-breastfeeding caregiver = no problem.

OP, if you need to keep using your mom as a caregiver, I suggest that you get some organic non-soy formula for her to use and TAKE HOME WITH HER EVERY TIME. Then you can pump at work and freeze the milk you pumped when you get home, and build up a stash for use with other, more congenial caregivers.


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