# "Raising your spirited child" - PART I: Understanding the Spirit



## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Anyone else reading/read this and want to discuss?

I happened upon it at a book store a couple of weeks ago and OMG!!!!! -- what an amazing book!







My pen is so busy highlighting while I'm reading because I can relate to SO much of it.

I've seen it mentioned in a few threads lately and was just wondering if anyone would be interested in going chapter by chapter and discussing.

http://www.parentchildhelp.com/Spiri...9/Default.aspx


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Yes, I have read it. It was the only book that seemed like it applied to my child. I have been having phone consults with the author. She is great! I would be interested in a discussion. I don't know how much I will be able to keep up. I tried to get a tribe going but there wasn't much interest.


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

I am currently reading this. I'd love a discussion. I'm finding lots of good insights, but also things that are not quite as easy as she lays them out. For example, i have just read the part where she talks about phrasing, and how if you add "okay?" or "woudl you like to..." to your requests than it implies a choice that isn't there. She says that if you state directly what you want, you get your message across and your kid is more likely to comply because they realize that there isn't a choice.

um, not at my house.

I dropped the "okay?" and all that stuff *months* ago, and while i think overally it is more effective, i still get flat out "no!" from my dd and other refusals. So, I'd be interested to discuss things like that- what we find that works and doesn't work from the book and sharing alternatives.

It was great to learn that by talking my dd is recharging her batteries- that was great to understand. I mean, it drains me like crazy, but at least i have an understanding now of kind of the underlying need there.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

It was great to learn that by talking my dd is recharging her batteries- that was great to understand. I mean, it drains me like crazy, but at least i have an understanding now of kind of the underlying need there.
Yeah. I know what you mean. Doesn't make it any less draining but there's still something about knowing why it's happening that helps.

Quote:

I have been having phone consults with the author. She is great!
Very cool. I might consider doing that at some point too!


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## Cate (Oct 2, 2005)

I have been meaning to read this book for ages... I even had it on hold from the library, but by the time I remembered to pick it up, they'd released it. I really gotta read it! I'd love to discuss it... I should go to the library and see if it's in.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Maybe we could start the discussion next week (like Sunday or Monday) so that way if there is anyone who is interested they can get the book and start reading!









I was thinking we could go chapter by chapter or maybe group a couple of chapters together and share some responses to what we read...ask each other questions to try and clarify what we've read...talk about what's working (or not working) with our spirited kids etc.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I just bought this book a few days ago. While a lot of it doesn't really apply yet because my son is only 13 months old, I am finding tools that help me deal better with his *intensity*. The best thing I've taken from the book so far is changing my own attitude and "internal dialogue" about my son. Instead of thinking "He's loud, annoying, clingy, etc...today" I try to reword those thoughts into "He sure has a lot of energy today!" And just overall trying to be more positive about my son and accepting him how he is, even if how he is is utterly exhausting on most days.


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Can we start by telling why we bought the book?
I bought it in March or April. I had a baby in January and my sweet boy turned into a tyrant. Misbehaving like yu wouldn't believe. My husband and I never really dealt with this before so we didn't know how to handle it. I bought a discipline book written by Elizabeth Pantley (NCSS author) and things didn't help. We tried charts and time-outs (which I now know were a waste of time), etc. Then my friend suggested the book. I could feel the weight lifting off my shoulders as I read it. It helped me understand his temperment and mine. We have been having issues still but pre-school started and I think he has been bobred out of his mind. I haven't been able to engage him like I used to since I have another child to tend to.
Sometimes I am so frustrated because he takes so much of my energy that I feel I have next to nothing left for anyone else. He was such an easy going baby. Observing, taking it all in.
I could keep going but I'll save it.
Then after people start reading maybe we can introduce our spirited child?
I'm not trying to take over, I've just been waiting to be able to have a discussion with other mamas of spirited children.
Thanks Dharmamama!


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmainer*
For example, i have just read the part where she talks about phrasing, and how if you add "okay?" or "woudl you like to..." to your requests than it implies a choice that isn't there. She says that if you state directly what you want, you get your message across and your kid is more likely to comply because they realize that there isn't a choice.

I still say "ok" as confirmation that he HEARD what I said. But she does make a good point. For example, hubby and I are explainers. The longer we explain the more he thinks things are up for negotiation. If we cut it short and not present things as an option then he seems to cooperate. This has totally surprised me. As far as the would you like to...? We have been trying to get him to use the potty again for pre-school. Instead of asking we have said, "ok, let's go potty before..." and he seems to be doing well with that. If we asked, "would you like to go potty before..." he would say "No". I think it is a matter of finding what words work best in your family and starting to make realizations of how there are patterns to certain things. In the beginning I would have been saying what you are saying. Another thing is that if you are not one who deals with change well and neither does she, it will take time to get used to the change of how things are said and sticking to that. Sometimes, the cooperation happens right away and sometimes it takes time.
I think I'm babbling so I'm going to stop. Does it makes sense or help at all?


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy*
Can we start by telling why we bought the book?
I bought it in March or April. I had a baby in January and my sweet boy turned into a tyrant. Misbehaving like yu wouldn't believe. My husband and I never really dealt with this before so we didn't know how to handle it. I bought a discipline book written by Elizabeth Pantley (NCSS author) and things didn't help. We tried charts and time-outs (which I now know were a waste of time), etc. Then my friend suggested the book. I could feel the weight lifting off my shoulders as I read it. It helped me understand his temperment and mine. We have been having issues still but pre-school started and I think he has been bobred out of his mind. I haven't been able to engage him like I used to since I have another child to tend to.
Sometimes I am so frustrated because he takes so much of my energy that I feel I have next to nothing left for anyone else. He was such an easy going baby. Observing, taking it all in.
I could keep going but I'll save it.
Then after people start reading maybe we can introduce our spirited child?
I'm not trying to take over, I've just been waiting to be able to have a discussion with other mamas of spirited children.
Thanks Dharmamama!

GREAT ideas Karen!







I'm nak-ing but will be back when I have two hands.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

subbing since I just started this book.


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## royals95 (Aug 28, 2005)

I would be interested in starting a discussion...I'm re-reading this book to gain more insight on my "spirited" toddler. Some of it doesn't describe DS, but most of it is spot-on! Now with DD starting to show some spirited behavior, I'm thinking I should buy it, instead of borrowing it every other month from my LLL lending library!


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## sarahmck (Feb 11, 2005)

I'd like to join in. I haven't read the book, but plan to.

I just went to Amazon to check out the price and see that there's a revised edition coming out in December. I don't suppose anyone knows anything about what the differences are going to be.

Anyway, I'll either buy the older edition or get that one from the library and wait for the new one. Either way, count me in.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahmck*
I'd like to join in. I haven't read the book, but plan to.

I just went to Amazon to check out the price and see that there's a revised edition coming out in December. I don't suppose anyone knows anything about what the differences are going to be.

Anyway, I'll either buy the older edition or get that one from the library and wait for the new one. Either way, count me in.

Huh. Cool. Didn't realize she was revising again. I'll probably pick that edition up too when it comes out!


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

I loved this book! I bought it because the cover- about your child being "more..." described my oldest so completely, and all my frustrating experiences with him, that I had to read it. Come to find out, I am a spirited mother of 2 spirited boys, living with a spirited dh. Yay. No intensity here.







:
Anyway, I cried when I read it, because the more I looked at my son after reading various parts, the more little lightbulbs came on in my head, and I was able to say hey, my kid isn't doing these things to piss me off. He's just different. It also helped because I could identify why we clash so much. I went out and bought 2 other books by the same author, both of which have been helpful as well. She really seems to have an inside view of my kids, and that helps so much. I'd love to be able to have a real consultation with her. How did you do that?


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

She really seems to have an inside view of my kids, and that helps so much. I'd love to be able to have a real consultation with her. How did you do that?

She totally does. She has been helping me with my slow-to-transition kid to transition into pre-school. He's doing awesome! I haven't left him yet but I'm hoping it will be soon.
Go to her website: www.parentchildhelp.com to find out about consults


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I have this book, but I only skimmed it, about 6 months ago. I think I am due for a re-read.







I'd be up for a discussion!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Excellent!









And as to why I bought this book...

DS was born 4 months ago and it has been a wild ride with DD since then. She's super verbal and I thought we had prepared her very well for the "new baby" but I just totally got side-swiped by her intense emotional reaction to having to share me. Pre-DS, I thought DD was a spunky, fun-loving, slightly picky, often intese, but generally easy going kid. I basically just followed her lead and we mingled our way through our days at her pace.

But once I had to put some of my attention towards my newborn and I couldn't lie down with her for an hour and a half trying to help her settle down for a nap every single afternoon...her behavior intensified and every transition became a huge battle. I was so overwhelmed and was crying all the time and yelling way too much. I picked up a book a friend had handed down to me (Sear's Parenting the high needs baby/child) and couldn't believe how much it described DD. So a couple of weeks ago I headed to the book store hoping to find "something" more about high needs kids and found this book. The cover and the description of all the "mores" really jumped out at me. And I love the term "spirited" so much more than "high needs."

I'm reading with a pen and making notes like crazy in the margins....I'm really focusing on giving DD the language she needs to describe what she's feeling in her body and it's SO amazing what a difference it is making.

Really looking forward to getting to know you all and exploring this book together!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Anyone want to introduce their sprited child???

Or are we all too busy trying to stay one step ahead of them??


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## punkprincessmama (Jan 2, 2004)

I would love to join this discussion! I'm a spirited mama with a very spirited 3.5 dd, and a most likely spirited 14 month old dd as well. I'm currently re-reading Raising Your Spirited Child, with a hi-liter this time







I find I get something new out of the book every time I read it, and now that dd1 is older there's lots that applies this time around that didn't when she was younger.

Our lives are one big transistion right now, so our days are pretty challenging. I'm hoping we can settle down soon.


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## shalena (May 31, 2004)

I'd love to be part of this discussion as well. My son is 21 months old and spirited as they come (or so it seems!). I'm feeling really burnt out and need to reconnect with him somehow. I've been reading this book daily after we have hard times and its helped alot.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Hi there!

I just happened upon a copy of Raising your Spirited Child too.

The more I read it, the more I realize _I_ was a spirited child. I had a difficult childhood, always felt out of place. And I do see some characteristics in my son too. He's non stop, mile a minute, inquistive and intense.

So glad I found this thread!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Alrighty then....Kicking off discussions!!









*PART I UNDERSTANDING THE SPIRIT*

*1. Who is the spirited child?*

Why don't we being here by introducing our spirited child(ren). When/how did you recognize that s/he was spirited?

*2. A different point of view: Building on the strengths*

A couple of quotes I like...

"As my vocabulary changed, so did my perspective." p. 22

"Building a healthy relationship with your spirited child begins with the labels, the words you use to describe what's inside." p.23

Thoughts/responses to the labels (both positive and negative) discussed in the chapter. What resonated with you?

*3. What makes kids spirited: Why do they do what they do?*

What have you learned about your child(ren)'s temperament?

Intensity
Persistence
Sensitivity
Perceptiveness
Adaptablility
Regularity
-------
Energy
First Reaction
Mood

*4. Matches and Mismatches: Parents and kids fitting together*

What have you learned about your own temperament?
What is raising your spirited child(ren) teaching you about your own temperament?


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Oh and just wanted to say that I'm totally just throwing these things out here to start conversation. Please feel free to jump in with your own discussion starters...answer some or all (or none







)of the questions I posed.

PLEASE, PLEASE don't feel like you can only participate in this discussion if you have a lot of time to form complete thoughts/sentences etc. Everyone is welcome to participate in any small way that they are able....even if it's just a smilie here or there to agree or disagree!









We can see how long this conversation stays interesting and then move to Part II when we need to!


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## aishy (Dec 13, 2001)

I'm in ! I have used ideas from the book for ALL of my children - not just the one who I feel is spirited. The other two are "more" in one or two ways, but not all of them. Though i'm having a LOT of issues with my youngest son lately and I've grabbed for the book on more than one occasion.

Used copies of the book are available at bookstores, I've seen them at the half price books around here for $5.

My four children - Kieran who was high needs as an infant (the way to get him to sleep was in the sling, walking back and forth in our tiny apt kitchen - lights off, dryer on. exhausting. night after night), cried all the time, etc. But a total sweetheart - cuddly and loving. Peter, ShaggyDaddy on here, met us when K was a baby so he can tell ya about my boy







My other two boys are Jeric, who is very sensitive. And Lochlan who is persistant and intense especially this year. And Aaralyn we haven't had any issues with yet but she is a lot of fun.

Gotta go but i'll be back later to join in more.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Thought I'd answer some of my own questions...

My spirited child (so far...I think DS is spunky but defnitely not as intense as his sister) is 27 mos. Being our first I often questioned how intense she was but wondered if it was "my fault" because I held her too much, slept with her in our bed, didn't let her CIO etc. When DS was born 4 months ago...despite all the preparation I thought we did so well...DD went into an emotional tailspin. I was totally losing my mind and crying all the time and out of desperation picked up a book a friend had handed down to me "just in case" -- Parenting your fussy baby and high needs child by the Sears.

I couldn't believe it when I started reading it. I just kept







: and







as I was reading. I was SO excited and felt SO validated that my parenting had not made her like she is....she totally fit the profile of a "high-needs" kid.

So...from there I started looking for books on high needs kids and stumbled upon "Raising your spirited child" at the bookstore. I am SOOOOO grateful I found this book. It has helped me tremendously in the last month.









Okay....skipping around a bit...

Temperament:

DD and I are definitely cut from the same cloth.









We both are spirited and scored within a point of each other (33/34). My relatives are CONSTANTLY telling me how she is just like me when I was little and I'm really starting to see it more and more.

As I'm reading this book I'm learning so much about myself and my own needs (like that I MUST get out of the house and be around other adults at least once a day) as well as DD's (like be sure to give ample warning if we are going to attempt to do something new and be ready for her to vehemently reject the idea at first and then slowly come around to it).

I look forward to reading this book each night before I fall asleep. It gives me hope on the really tough days and totally inspires me to keep trying and keep learning!

That's all I have time for. More when I can...


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Yup, i'm here with you all. i'd like to be in here more, but my family's schedule does not permit.

Ny spirtied dd will be 5 in Feb. She has been spirited since day one. I took it all in stride (for the most part) when she was an infant and toddler, and, as others mentioned, I had more difficulty understanding and accomodating once her brother was born (He'll be 2 next month).

What really struck me, and has helped, from the book is recasting our perceptions/changing our vocabulary.

My dd is exuberant, energetic, and enthusiastic. And she feels her emotions strongly. All of them!

I have revisited this book several times over the past couple of years and I also find more I identify with.

I am also, however, questioning to what extent my DD is simply 'spirited' and to what extent she may have some special needs (in terms of possible anxiety and coordination issues). We are working through the other issues, and I am questioning if she is spirited ON TOP of these other things, or because of these other things, and which way I should go.

I need to get my book out again, and review strategies, as I find myself yelling and being overcontrolling again, a role I do not enjoy, but which comes naturally to me.

I will be sure to pop back in to see where everyone is at.

Peace, all!


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama*
When DS was born 4 months ago...despite all the preparation I thought we did so well...DD went into an emotional tailspin. I was totally losing my mind and crying all the time and out of desperation picked up a book"...

called "How to Raise Your Spirited Child."
That's me almost to a tee. My spirited one is 3.5 yrs. I never considered him high maintenance. He hardly cried at all in his first year of life.We wore him all the time, co-slept, nursed almost til his 3rd b-day. He was hard to put down for sleep, though. When he turned a year, the strong-willed side started to show. It started with the car seat. Sometimes I had to wrestle him down. It would end with screaming and crying, I would be frustrated and upset. Then the high chair. But still relatively an easy going kid. Flash forward to about 2 or 2 1/2. He would be extremely focused on his activities. We would say something to him and it seemed as if he was ignoring us. He was completely conversational by 2 1/2. Hubby would be frustrated because he was "ignoring" us. We just couldn't seem to break the focus. He started to reist naps at this age. I would drive for an housr to get him to go down. I needed the rest since I was pregnant. Then we decided to buy a new house. We moved in December and little bro was born in January. And then everything in the quote happened. I was reading Dr. Sears discipline book at one point and was so angry when he said something to the effect that if you AP your child , then when the sib comes their cup is full and can handle less attention. Something like that. What a load of crap! The move transition and the baby transition has ben earth shattering to my son. He was taking off on me when we would go out. He was difficult to dress, diaper, feed, get out of the house, resisted going to activities he previously enjoyed. My friend suggested this book. We had read a couple of discipline books prior but nothing worked. It worked for my friends and their kids, but not him. Something was just different about him. He is extremely bright and persistent. I read Kurcinka's book and I felt like a weight had lifted off my shoulders. It wasn't how we parented him or that he was becoming a bad kid, it was jsut that he was "more" than other kids.
Aidan is:
Extremely intense but inwardly. He's not the yelling, screaming, kid. He is very introverted as well. He has always been very sensitive to loud sounds. Extremely perceptive. For example, he is a t gym class going through a course and he stops dead in his tracks and gets is face real close to the crack between two mats and is playing with a roli poly bug. He has always been slow to warm up. His sleeping, eating, and elimination habits are unpredictable. He is totally high energy. Not hyper, just very busy. Always doing something. My mom came over one day and asked if he was always like that. Yep. No wonder why you are so exhausted. The first reaction has started this year. Very quick to reject and make up his mind that he won't like something. And mood, some mornings I jsut know it's going to be a rough day and I should probably stay home.
Wow, this is long.
Anway, I felt like I could understand where he is coming from better. I learned that sometimes the same things that send him through roof, send me through the roof, too. I'm a little bit extroverted and a little bit introverted. I'm the one that is asking ten million questions and need them answered NOW. He needs to digest them, think about them for a few minutes or a few days. I find out information about things months later. I just found out why he was crying at our friends house 8months ago. He isn't always ignoring me. He's either thinking or tto wrapped up in what he is doing that he really didn't hear me. I do need to re-read this book.
Currently I am going to pre-school with him to make sure he transitions well. Unfortunately, he regressed in his potty learning 3 mohts ago when little bro started crawling. He has to be out of dipes at school. He's been wearing a pull-up but using the potty at school. Sometimes he goes at home, sometimes in his pull up. His teacher told me that he has to wear underwear or he can't come to school. It's a great school, but he's hard to transition. So here I am trying to get him used to pre-school and now I have to tell him he has to ditch his "security blanket" of pull-ups. We had a talk today and he said "I have an idea. I will fo in the potty but I will still wear my pull-ups. I will tell Miss Andrea that." UUGGHH!! I told him that she said no pull-ups at school. I'm just so afraid that all the transitions are going to cause him to implode which will equal no pre-school and he will still be in dipes. I NEED him to be in pre-school and he needs it too. I just can't give him the stimulation he needs now that his brother is here.
Sorry I blabbed so much and went a littl off topic. I just figured that all of the mamas here can understand.
I'll have to tell you about the "friend" who said it looked like he ran the show at another time.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I think I'm gonna have to take a stroll to the old library/bookstore soon and see if maybe my DS fits this bill, too. He's definitely "more", for sure - though we're in a fairly good place now re: discipline (after some trial and error on different communication skills) we do have our off days, and maybe this will help me now and even more with the future in understanding him a bit more.

He's 31-1/2 months now, and we had our DD in late June. He is great with her (albeit a little overaffectionate sometimes







: , in a sweet way not a harmful way - he absolutely adores her ) - he's just very intense. Very enthusiastic. Very sensitive. Very energetic. Just.......VERY.







He is fairly independent for the most part (I WAH, and he's been able to entertain himself, perhaps by necessity, from early on), and is in the "I'll do it myself" phase, but he is still nonetheless a very intense little guy - which is great when he's happy, but, um, not so great when he's sad or mad.

An example: Sitting with MIL at lunch time one day, DS was yumming and laughing and talking about his food, etc. and MIL said, "I've never seen anyone so enthusiastic about eating..." and though my family is all foodies so he gets it honestly








, she's right - he just has this infectious enthusiasm about nearly everything in life, which makes it wondrous for us, but also can be exhausting at times, too.

So - an intro without the book, I'll try to get it soon and see if I end up







while I read and come on back to chat more here. We







him to pieces!!!


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
.

An example: he just has this infectious enthusiasm about nearly everything in life, which makes it wondrous for us, but also can be exhausting at times, too.


YES, YES, YES!! Aidan is so passionate about things. It is wondrous and extremely exhasuting


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Hi!







s:

We did not think of DD as a spirited baby, really. She was very alert, very aware, and very outgoing, always. She was hard to get to sleep, but that hardly seems unique at MDC.







She always wanted to be in the middle of the action and was hard to settle, but she didn't cry a lot.

Her spirited side didn't really emerge till about 15-18 months, when we started seeing real tantrums (throw self on floor, scream, kick). Since then, we have noticed these traits:

--Hard time with transitions--way beyond normal toddler behavior.
--Very easily frustrated.







If the toy doesn't do what she wants in the first 15 seconds, she will start to lose it.
--At the same time--very persistent. Locks in on the tiniest matters. Will scream at the top of her lungs for half an hour over being given the wrong color of spoon.
--But that doesn't feel manipulative--it really DOES matter to her what color the spoon is! She feels things INTENSELY--you *know* when this kid is around! She is usually either really happy or really unhappy.
--In terms of sensitivity--this is an interesting one. I didn't think she was sensitive till recently. I don't know if it's developmental or what, but suddenly she's complaining about tags in clothes, noises, etc. This bums me out b/c I'm like this and I consider it a hassle.
--On the positive side for us: she does not have a negative mood generally (she approaches things happily and with excitement), she likes new things, and she is very outgoing and gregarious. She talks NONSTOP and is a classic, way-out-there extrovert. (Kurcinka's books really helped me "get" this about her--I am a mild introvert, and the difference between us is vast.) People love her on first meeting and find her very personable, until she has a meltdown, at which point they tend to disappear, looking distinctly alarmed...








--She is not super-perceptive; in the middle, but towards the spirited side, on regularity. In the middle on adaptability.

She actually scores as "Spirited Lite"; I gave her a 28. Like I said, we haven't really thought of her as classically spirited, but on some traits (intensity and persistence) she is *solidly* a "5"!

Quote:

My dd is exuberant, energetic, and enthusiastic. And she feels her emotions strongly. All of them!








: Yup, this is my DD. She's wonderful--we enjoy her. She is memorable, and spunky! She is also EXHAUSTING, and sometimes just downright HARD.

One thing I'd like to talk about is how you all handle meltdowns. We've tried a lot of things, and none of them work very well.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

Can I just say I love seeing this thread. It seems when your first is spirited it is blamed on you as a parent, you're too uptight, don't know what you're doing etc. I have a very hard time believing that other friends of mine were so very much more laid back then I was that I made him that way. He is just different. Sleep has always been hard (well now it is sooooooo much better) but my friend just didn't understand he would not sleep in public, he has skipped many a nap.

Then you read in all the AP books that ap babies shouldn't really cry. Then my friend talks about how how sil must be a bad mom (paraphrasing here but that was the intent) because her baby was crying alot. I seriously wanted to brain her. People have not a clue, not a clue.


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## turtlemama77 (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dharmama* 
Excellent!









And as to why I bought this book...

DS was born 4 months ago and it has been a wild ride with DD since then. She's super verbal and I thought we had prepared her very well for the "new baby" but I just totally got side-swiped by her intense emotional reaction to having to share me. Pre-DS, I thought DD was a spunky, fun-loving, slightly picky, often intese, but generally easy going kid. I basically just followed her lead and we mingled our way through our days at her pace.

But once I had to put some of my attention towards my newborn and I couldn't lie down with her for an hour and a half trying to help her settle down for a nap every single afternoon...her behavior intensified and every transition became a huge battle. I was so overwhelmed and was crying all the time and yelling way too much.

Wow. This is exactly where we are right now. ds is two months old, and although it's gotten better, dd still struggles with sharing mama. I also thought dd was a pretty easy going kid, but when I compare her to other toddlers (and I know I shouldn't do that, but it's hard not to sometimes), she's all over the place! She's active and busy and curious and persistent...and she's always been like that. She doesn't need much sleep either and can be hard to wind down/settle down for bedtime/naps.

I think I better read this book, too. I appreciate everyone sharing about their dcs...and I'm glad I stumbled across this thread.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

One thing I'd like to talk about is how you all handle meltdowns. We've tried a lot of things, and none of them work very well.
Good question. We had so many today I can't even begin to count them.







:

I'm one tired mama today. I was definitely feeling angry and resentful of my DD's exuberant spirit today.









Getting in the car is always a grand production. She has to go walk in the backyard to "peek at the barn"...then climb in BY HERSELF...then (new this week) she runs into the backseat of the van and I have to play a game where I turn my back and count to 5 and she scampers up into her seat...then we all clap and say yay and I tell her how proud I am of her.









I can do this a few times a day but today we had to run a few errands and I felt so







: about having to do it every. single. time. I just wanted her to get in her







carseat.







:


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## lovemysunshine (Jul 13, 2005)

Subbing so I can remember to come back later. . .


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
People love her on first meeting and find her very personable, until she has a meltdown, at which point they tend to disappear, looking distinctly alarmed...









I can very much relate to this.

My son is a hearty laugher, loves to smile, is a real people person... until he is upset and it turns into a high pitched squeal.

Oh my, cover your ears!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

Currently I am going to pre-school with him to make sure he transitions well. Unfortunately, he regressed in his potty learning 3 mohts ago when little bro started crawling. He has to be out of dipes at school. He's been wearing a pull-up but using the potty at school. Sometimes he goes at home, sometimes in his pull up. His teacher told me that he has to wear underwear or he can't come to school. It's a great school, but he's hard to transition. So here I am trying to get him used to pre-school and now I have to tell him he has to ditch his "security blanket" of pull-ups. We had a talk today and he said "I have an idea. I will fo in the potty but I will still wear my pull-ups. I will tell Miss Andrea that." UUGGHH!! I told him that she said no pull-ups at school. I'm just so afraid that all the transitions are going to cause him to implode which will equal no pre-school and he will still be in dipes. I NEED him to be in pre-school and he needs it too. I just can't give him the stimulation he needs now that his brother is here.








How's it going mama?

I know for myself when I get in situations where I feel like this (whatever it is) *HAS* to happen, just about everything that could possibly prevent it from going smoothly will happen.







So frustrating.

Right now my DD is struggling with a toy and her frustration is building. I'm exhausted. Still haven't recouped my energy from yesterday and a difficult night last night so I'm letting her struggle longer than usual.

It's kind of funny actually...energy-wise it's like we do the same thing. She's trying to pull a toy around the house and it keeps getting stuck but she just keeps pulling harder and harder and getting more and more frustrated. If she'd just 'disengage' and go another way she could get through. And yet *I* have such a hard time disengaging and trying a different route with her all the time.

(I'm reading the chapter on persistence and being able to disengage...something I have a lot of trouble with, as does DD.)


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Paddy is all over the map right now. He is extraverted 90% of the time, but has moments where he needs to either just be with myself or dh or even alone, which was surprising to me being that he is only 13 months old. I keep lots of toys in his room so he has things to do when he decides thats where he wants to be. He is easily overstimulated, and we always take great care to prepare and plan for outings. He dislikes crowds of people, and at first appears to be antisocial. But when he is one-on-one with an adult or especially another child, he is lively, curious, excited, and in-your-face. He was playing with another boy his age at the WIC office this week, and was trying to peel the decals off this boy's shirt, and he also helped him untie his shoes and take them off







It is frustrating trying to get other family members to recognize these things in Paddy and respect them. My mom expects him to sit on her lap and hold still and play patty-cake all the time. He isn't into that. He's an active little boy who needs to crawl around, get into things, make messes, and learn everything he can by touching things. They ( my mom and her fiance ) were here yesterday for way longer than they should have been. I'm not into company for extended periods of time and either is Paddy. So it was no surprise when Paddy started fussing, crying, throwing tantrums, and only wanting to be with his Mama. I tried explaining to my mom that he was tired and overstimulated and maybe it was time to start winding down for the evening ( hint hint PLEASE LEAVE NOW! ) And she took it personally and her exact words to me were "I'm his grandmother. I wasn't overdoing anything." Whole other thread entirely..... But we have a lot of work to do when it comes to getting others to respect Paddy's needs. So far I think that issue has been the greatest challenge of raising a spirited child. WE understand his spirit, but no one else does.


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm returning...

I'm not sure how coherent i'll be, since my dh is out of town for the week, thus i am alone w/ my sprited 3 yo dd and her 4 mo brother.

wow, where to start? well, i am right there w/ you mamas about the difficult transition when the baby was born, and- like some of you- we are moving soon as well and dd is upset about selling the house and moving. change is hard for her. she adores her brother, but it starting to push boundaries like swatting him on the head and such. it makes me so mad! my anger frustrates me so much b/c i know its' not hte right way to respond. playing a'la Playful Parenting is much more her style.

and oh, the talking! she *never shuts up.* we are in the thick of the "why?"s and it drives me batty. luckily, she responds ok if i tell her i need 5 min. of quiet (usually in the car) and if she talks i just say, "5 min." it really helps. i know i need to get back my positive outlook on my dd. we were so close,and then my pregnancy hit and i was crazy and tired and her spirit got stronger and more testy and it's just been up and down since.

i hate to say this....but i feel like i'm not in love with her like i used to be







It make me so sad. WHen other parents were crying on the first day of preschool, i was practically leaping to the parking lot. i need the break so badly. sigh... i adore her, but i'm having a hard time right now. i know that 3 is a really tough age too adn that combined w/ spirit is challenging. So, i'm looking forward to this thread to help me get my bearings w/ her again.

thanks for reading what was more of a vent


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Kelly. I can relate to SO much of what you wrote.

Just wondering are all of our spirited kids big talkers???

Mine sure is. And she's been not napping lately so I find myself just going







: by the end of the day with no break from the







at all.









I'm weaning my DD now and it's been so challenging. I *know* it is the right thing for our family and especially for me but wow - it's been hard.


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Wow, Kelly!! I totally could have written your post!! I've been going to pre-school for 1 month since ds is slow to transition. Yesterday was his first day without me on the premises and he did GREAT!! I didn't dance in the parking lot but I could have








Erin, DS is a talker to hubby and I. He is an introvert so he doesn't say much in social situations. I did have a day where I needed to eat and DS was asking me ten million questions. I told him that I needed to eat and I needed some quiet so please don't say anything until after I eat and after that I will answer his questions. He was actually able to do it.
Do any of you feel like your DC is a non-conformist, thiks outside the box, dances to the beat of their own drum, etc. Lately DS has been doing some defiant stuff. i.e. urinating on the carpet because he is mad. We spoke to our pediatrician and he said something about oppositional defiant. I read up on it and don't feel that my DS completely fits the description but I also don't feel that he aims to please like so many people say that young children want to do. Not that I want him to be a pleaser but I would like to know how to motivate him without it backfiring on me somehow. Anybody else?


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## maryjane (Jul 13, 2004)

So glad to see this post. I have ordered the book, but since I live out of the U.S., it may take a while for me to get it.

In the meantime, does anyone know if there's a copy of the assessment "test" on line -- it sounds like that would help me to know better what I'm dealing with.

In short, DS1 is 3+3months. Like so many of you, he wasn't particularly intense as a baby... or at least I didn't perceive it that way. Coslept, nursed, slung, etc.... he hardly cried, was very sociable, very alert, craved contact with me -- or other stand-ins when I wasn't available (i.e. never really sef-enteretained). He was NOT a good sleeper. He nursed all.the.time and took well to solids (at 8 months) when we let him feed himself. He was a "late talker" -- didn't start with 2 word combinations until 2 months after his 2nd birthday. He's also had some articulation issues. We worked w/ a speech therapist briefly. Now, he is completely conversational and never -- NEVER -- stops talking from the moment he wakes up until the moment he goes to sleep. NEVER!

His brother was born 11.5 months ago. He handled his arrival quite well. Very loving. Really seemed to take it in stride. There was some aggression, but it came out in his preschool coop (three other moms and I rotated the kids for mornings) against the other children. Things got better, and then got worse again. Lots of pushing and hitting. I kept saying to DH that I "thought he had ADD" (half joking). Things got better again, and then he turned three.







: He had almost no temper tantrums as a two, but as a three -- they are near daily occurances. He started preschool three weeks ago. He seems to be transitioning well, but I think the anxiety is manifesting itself in his old stand-by: aggressive behavior. It doesn't help that he's a big child for his age, so I think he also suffers from the assumptions that teachers/parents make about big kids.

The most spirited issues for me are his "aggression" and his "rashness". I know, I need to find ways to relabel these characteristics. But, in other ways, I think he's a very "easy" child. For example, he PT almost instantly. He'd been using the toilet at his own initiative for quite some time, but in April, we had a break from our co-op, so we decided to go cold-turkey on the diapers. After 4 days, he was completely trained -- including at night. He's a great eater, very open to trying new things.

Phew this got long. Anyway, I'll definitely be following and thanks for the great thread!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

Just wondering are all of our spirited kids big talkers???
I don't know--but mine sure is! I was just laughing noticing how many of us have a







in our signatures!









This is a big week for us. I went back to work (mixed emotions there!) and DD started preschool. This week we are going half-time, but next week it will be full-time. DD was VERY excited for school her first day, but had a VERY hard time with the transitions. She kept telling me "I screamed and cried a lot".







However, she was excited to go back again today, so we talked and talked to her about how things work at school, how she can ask the teachers to help her "say goodbye" to activities, etc. We also spoke with the teachers about her transition issues and gave them some tips. Well--today was MUCH better! They said she did not have a single meltdown (said they were able to ward off a few). Honestly, you could knock me over with a feather.







: I am not expecting it to be smooth every day. But it sure was nice to pick up a happy girl from happy teachers today.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
He dislikes crowds of people, and at first appears to be antisocial. But when he is one-on-one with an adult or especially another child, he is lively, curious, excited, and in-your-face.

....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmainer* 
and oh, the talking! she *never shuts up.* we are in the thick of the "why?"s and it drives me batty. luckily, she responds ok if i tell her i need 5 min. of quiet (usually in the car) and if she talks i just say, "5 min." it really helps.

OK, so I do belong. For a long time I didn't think our older child was spirited, but these describe him to a T. He's quietly persistent (but not noisily so), and takes what I find to be an incredible amount of emotional energy from me. The one advantage he does have is that he transitions easily for small things (though not for big ones -- we *just* got him, at age 5, to give up sleeping in his crib!)

I love my son, but he is EXHAUSTING at times. Exhausting when we're out because he sooo needs to be near me to feel safe, and sooo exhausting when we're alone because of the INCESSANT questions. I too have resorted to the "I need 5 minutes." And the thing is, "why?" isn't just a conversation filler, he REALLY wants to know, and if our first explanation doesn't give him what he needs, he will persist until he gets a full answer. I keep expecting the why stage to go away, and after 2 1/2 years of "why", it hasn't. He's just added "how" to his repretoire.

And if he's not asking questions, he's got to involve me in whatever game is the focus of moment. "Do you want to ride the 2 car streetcar mom?" "Can you be the fire alarm?"

Our second is probably spirited as well, but in different ways. She's more noisily persistent and much more irregular. But I don't find her as emotionally exhausting.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Interesting to hear all the similarities.

Do your spirited kids have sensory issues?

Mine does big time. I totally want to respect her needs but OMG. It can make me







when I'm trying to get her dressed in the morning. Everything is too tight. Too scratchy. Too hot. Too yucky. Too ouchy.

She's even started making up "too's" like she'll say a dress is "too dressy" or pants are "too pantsy" -- which I have no idea what that means other than I better dig into the drawer and come up with another option.









She hates tight sleeves, turtlenecks, scratchy tags etc. Barely lets me brush or wash her hair and won't have anything to do with barrettes, elastics, bows etc.

Since she was a baby I have been cutting cuffs off of PJs. I did it without thinking...just desperate to get her to wear something to go to sleep. My mom was like why the heck are you ruining all of her clothes??? But it was totally just survival...I couldn't get anything on her otherwise.


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## Feb2003 (Jul 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy* 
He is extremely bright and persistent. I read Kurcinka's book and I felt like a weight had lifted off my shoulders. It wasn't how we parented him or that he was becoming a bad kid, it was jsut that he was "more" than other kids.
Aidan is:
Extremely intense but inwardly. He's not the yelling, screaming, kid. He is very introverted as well. He has always been very sensitive to loud sounds. Extremely perceptive. ... He has always been slow to warm up. His sleeping, eating, and elimination habits are unpredictable. He is totally high energy. Not hyper, just very busy. Always doing something. ...Very quick to reject and make up his mind that he won't like something. And mood, some mornings I jsut know it's going to be a rough day and I should probably stay home.

This is my son! He's 3.5 yo and ds2 is 14mo. I knew that I put a lot more effort into parenting ds1 than anyone else I knew, but it wasn't until I was trying to juggle 2 that life went into a bit of a tail-spin. ds2 is already showing signs of being at least spunky if not spirited. I haven't been on MDC in a while because I barely survive most days.







Most people don't understand that...afterall, he's 3.5 and ds2 isn't a newborn, but whew, they exhaust me!

One issue I have is that I am spirited. I have the singular focus thing and that often makes juggling two difficult for me...I was used to and Reid was used to me parenting 150% before Grant and then it dropped to about 30% ds1/70% ds2 on a good day. I favored ds1 at first and would even let ds2 fuss while I tried to avoid a meltdown...then I read something Dr. Sears said about the first having a full cup and being able to ride out the transition to siblinghood, but the newborn's trust could be broken and it would affect our future relationship! The latter was unacceptable to me, but the former statement just wasn't correct for my spirited little man. I love this book! I'm re-reading it right now along with Playful Parenting.

I think my perspective is a lot better when I change to positive labels! Can't hurt them, either. I've even been re-phrasing other people's labels of their children







in a nice, conversational way









gotta go, ds2 just woke up to nurse

BTW, ds1 has been a talker since he "talked" with signs at about a year...he wanted to tell me about everything we saw and still does!


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## Cate (Oct 2, 2005)

Well, I finally got the book, actually picked it up from the library when it came in this time







. Now I just have to start reading it







. I hope I'm not too late... I still have to finnish reading the thread too.
We (dh and I) always thought that Jenna was intence, and high needs, and sprited... then Callum was born, and our world changed. Jenna is sedate by comparison. Jenna is intence, sensitive, perceptive, persistent, and energetic beyond most children.... but Callum is a whole new level that I didn't even know was possible. Jenna somehow managed to be all those things, but still somehow 'in control', tantrums were never an issue with her. Callum will flip out over the tinniest thing... he has a temper like I have never seen. He's also more attached that Jenna in some ways, but much less clingy, and certainly more outgoing.
Anyway, I should start reading the book, then I can comment more effectively. I look forward to discussing it with everyone.


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## kindacrunchy (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Feb2003* 
T I favored ds1 at first and would even let ds2 fuss while I tried to avoid a meltdown...then I read something Dr. Sears said about the first having a full cup and being able to ride out the transition to siblinghood, but the newborn's trust could be broken and it would affect our future relationship! !

Yes, I read this, too and it pissed me off!! Excuse my choice of words, but that is how strong I felt. First of all, I AP'd DS1 to a T so why wasn't he transitioning into siblinghood well? DS2 has been on the sidelines many times so I can manage DS1's behavior. I feel awful about it and resentful of DS1 because I feel like he sucks so much of my energy and it cheats DS2. What has been helping is a routine. A pretty detailed one. I never wanted to do this but it seems to be helping.I think what was so hard for DS1 was that life is so unpredicatable with a little one. Now he is in preschool and things are a little more predictable. Still have some issues to work out but things ar emuch better.
Should we start a tribe? It seeems like we are falling behind on the chapter discussions. It would just be nice to have somewhere to go to discuss our spirited ones. I have wanted to post a lot lately but just haven't had time.
What do you think?


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## luchita (Jun 13, 2006)

Oh, I'm so glad I read this thread!! This sounds like exactly what I was looking for. I'd love the revised version, but don't think I can wait till December. I would like to be involved in a discussion of the book if we can get one started.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Thanks for bumping this mama. Sorry I've been slacking on my own thread.

I'm weaning my spirited toddler and it's going great but I haven't had much time to sit and get on the computer...or really to sit at all!









Keeping extra active is helping us a lot!

More when I can....


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kindacrunchy* 
Yes, I read this, too and it pissed me off!! Excuse my choice of words, but that is how strong I felt. First of all, I AP'd DS1 to a T so why wasn't he transitioning into siblinghood well? DS2 has been on the sidelines many times so I can manage DS1's behavior. I feel awful about it and resentful of DS1 because I feel like he sucks so much of my energy and it cheats DS2. What has been helping is a routine. A pretty detailed one. I never wanted to do this but it seems to be helping.I think what was so hard for DS1 was that life is so unpredicatable with a little one. Now he is in preschool and things are a little more predictable. Still have some issues to work out but things ar emuch better.
Should we start a tribe? It seeems like we are falling behind on the chapter discussions. It would just be nice to have somewhere to go to discuss our spirited ones. I have wanted to post a lot lately but just haven't had time.
What do you think?

A tribe sounds awesome. I just keep lurking, not much posting for now, just soaking it up.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

Should we start a tribe? It seeems like we are falling behind on the chapter discussions. It would just be nice to have somewhere to go to discuss our spirited ones. I have wanted to post a lot lately but just haven't had time.
What do you think?








sounds good to me


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## ent_mom (Aug 30, 2004)

:

...still catching up on this thread


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