# A letter to my still-abusive mother (very long, would you send it?!?)



## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Okay, if you all can bear with me through this, some of the history is outlined. I think my mother may have borderline personality. I don't know if I should even bother sending this, but I am leaning toward yes...

If you get through the letter, I'd appreciate frank opinions. I was hit a LOT as a child, emotionally abused and not respected. My feelings were invalidated and I was always expected to "mind" what she said. I am still working so hard not to parent the way she did,but when I am tired or stressed or frustrated, I get angry, loud and use a nasty voice. I SOOOO need help and to get past this for my kids' sake. I have told my mother to butt out re: our parenting before, but haven't gone as far as I did in this letter.
_

Mom, I am writing to express some of my feelings about some of the recent goings-on-namely, your calling me and DH to give us a run-down of everything that you feel we are doing wrong in our parenting. You have told me that children should not have choices, should not be allowed to get angry when they don't get their way, should not express their displeasure with anything, should not get impatient when their wishes or needs are not met immediately, etc, etc, etc. You have said that my daughter is always demanding and telling people what to do. You have told me that my one-year-old is too young to choose what food he wants to eat (from among healthy options I present to him). You have said that the reason there are so many kids 'these days' who are wild and grow up and 'kill their grandparents' is because parents are not allowed to spank their kids anymore.

On the phone, just now, I agreed that the 4 of us would come to your place on Saturday to celebrate my birthday. BUT I have decided, using my better judgment, and following my intuition, not to get together with you this weekend. I was rushed and pre-occupied when I was on the phone with you and said we would come, and I have had some quiet time to reflect.

I feel stressed out and pressured at the thought of spending time with you. You have clearly expressed your opinion of our parenting-you haven't minced words-you disapprove and have told me that if my daughter goes on drugs for ADD at 6, it's my fault. We agree, at least, that she does not have ADD, but that is your way of saying she is out of control. She does not jump when I 'say jump', she tells us that she doesn't like us when we limit something she wants, she is jealous of her brother in some ways, and at some times. We co-sleep with the baby. That is healthy and normal in most parts of the world. Where do you think babies slept before cribs were made? We ask for quieter voices and play when anyone is sleeping, not just DS. We do allow some negotiation and discussion. DD expresses her opinions and feelings freely.

Giving our children choices of things that are in their control and having them feel the consequences of 'minor' things (such as wearing a winter hat out on a warm day) helps them to figure out in ways that are not harmful, what things work for them and what things don't. We wouldn't give a choice about playing with knives, etc, nor about playing in traffic. Our goals are for our children to learn to know their own minds, and to make them up-so that later, they may be less susceptible to peer pressure and abuse or misuse by people who might try to make them do things they don't want to or shouldn't do. In the short-term, this makes for some disagreements (some of them heated), and leads to some frustration but our kids need to know that we love them unconditionally, not only when they are behaving in 'acceptable' ways.

I struggle every day NOT to be an overbearing parent who seeks to control every aspect of my kids' lives and actions. I am not perfect, and I never expected or claimed to be. My kids are going to come back to me with criticisms later-on. I would be foolish to think they won't BUT the key for me is that they feel comfortable and confident to express their feelings (whether I 'like' the feelings or not) and to stand up for what they believe in. I don't want them to learn or experience as children that their opinions are only worth hearing when they agree with mine-in the long-run, this is counter-productive to the independent thinkers and compassionate people we want them to be.

As DH and I have said before, you are entitled to your opinion-that does not make it right for us, nor does it mean we have to share it. You do not have to take it personally that we don't agree with you.

We do not care if you do not approve. I will not have DD and DS (and myself and DH, for that matter) listening to your huffing and "oooo'ing" with a nasty tone of voice any time something comes up that you disagree with (whether it's something DD does, or a way DH or I choose to handle something).

I am taking a break from seeing you. DH and I ARE the parents. We are doing what is right for us. We are doing things differently than you did. This does not make you wrong, nor does it make us necessarily 'right'. We are doing what we believe is best for our children. I could give you numerous references to information about our parenting approach. If you are interested, I will email them to you.

I think that your statement that you want our get together to be calm and relaxing is well-intentioned, but your added condition, 'As long as YOU are the parents' (meaning that we are controlling DD) negates your intent. You got upset when I said I did not want to feel evaluated, pressured or criticized- and you said that you don't need this pressure. You do not have pressure, here, except of your own choice. You are not the parent of our children. You do not get to make the parenting choices. You do not have to feel pressure, because this entire situation is out of your control. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_

is it too harsh or snarky, or anything? or is there any point in sending it to someone with her level of disturbance??!?


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## Ryver (May 31, 2005)

Mama, I think it is wonderfully written. You are doing what is right.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Great letter! The only thing I would change is to put some paragraph breaks in that long section, and in fact, to make it a bit shorter. I don't think she cares why you do what you do with your kids and I don't think examples will make her care or whether she'll even understand them. So I would cut out some of that. Other than that, I think it's great!


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Hmm. I don't think I'd send it. I always think, when people defend their choices, that they are giving power to whomever they are defending their choices TO. (Sorry for the poor sentence structure!) Do you want to give your mom that much power? From what you've said, I would think the answer is no.

But when you say things like this:
_
We do not care if you do not approve._

and then go on to defend your choices, it makes me think you DO care. Don't give her the power!

I do think, however, that if she is a toxic person, that you have every right to not be with her, and to keep your children away from her. I think things like this are good:

_On the phone, just now, I agreed that the 4 of us would come to your place on Saturday to celebrate my birthday. BUT I have decided, using my better judgment, and following my intuition, not to get together with you this weekend. I was rushed and pre-occupied when I was on the phone with you and said we would come, and I have had some quiet time to reflect.
I feel stressed out and pressured at the thought of spending time with you.
I am taking a break from seeing you._

Keep using those "I" statements, stick to your feelings, leave out the criticism. And if seeing her stresses you out and you feel damage is being done, there's nothing wrong with a loooong break from her.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

thanks, mamas.

sigh

she is pretty young (50's), but she often forgets things she says, and truly thinks she is helpful and loving and kind.

you're right, elena, unfortunately, i *do* still care what she thinks, even though i know she has *no* right or place criticizing my parenting.

if she weren't my mother, i wouldn't associate with her at all, but i am her only child and she has never had a spouse, so i kind of feel like i'm 'it' for her. (i know, that should be her issue, not mine).

i guess i need to 'get over it', eh?!


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## Snowdrift (Oct 15, 2005)

I feel for you so much! I'm not in this forum since i'm now pg with my first, but this jumped out at me.

My MIL just kind of talked me out of sending a similar letter to my own mother--only mine is about issues relating to how she treats me and DH and how she regards the pregnancy. My therapists have always been concinved that my mother has a narcissistic personality, so she places her own needs and wants so far above everyone elses' that (for example) it took me five years to be able to admit when I was sick (because if i don't feel well, then my mother must feel worse, so how can I complain?).

Mizelenious has a point--your letter has a contradictory message; that you don't care what she thinks and that you need to convince her why what you think is correct. For what it's worth, it's pretty obvious that you are right, but what my MIL was telling me is this:

*Of course* we care what our mothers think of us! There is a level of control and even love that it is nearly impossible to destroy. *Of course* we want them to agree with us--becuase we want to make them proud of what fine adults they helped us become, or alternatively, how well we overcome them and became fine adults on our own (usually a bit of both).

The problem is that a mother who is not reconciled to her daughter's autonomy and adulthood will regard any attempts to communicate on a deeper level than the most mundane as an opportunity to exert control.

I'm about to 'take a break' as you say from my mother too--but I destroyed the letter I wrote. She regards my lifestyle as evil, my opinions as delusional, and my spirituality as farcical. She regards my unborn child as a potential weapon to carry on a fued she started with her parents thirty years ago down to a fourth generation. I'm not going to dignify her behavior with explanations. If she wants to know why she's not hearing from me, I'll tell her I don't want to spend time with her right now. That's more than enough exaplanation.

I'm sorry if this is highjacking your thread a bit, but it seems our situations are awfully similar.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

What is the intent of your letter?

You aren't going to get her to see and you certainly aren't going to change her. You have never felt heard and you are still trying to feel heard. I don't think that is going to happen.

Can you love a mother who doesn't listen? Of course. Can you love a mother who is critical and judgemental? Of course.

It might not be easy to love her and it certainly isn't going to be easy to treat her respectfully no matter how she treats you. But you could take on this wonderful gentle parenting practice of loving and accepting and still standing for what you believe in, just like you do with your kids.

Good luck. It is a lot harder to raise parents, than it is to raise children. Just ask your kids.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I agree with the PPs who commented that your use of "I" statements was good, as well as noting that you indicated that you didn't need to defend your parenting style, and then defended your parenting style.

And I really think this sums it up:

_You aren't going to get her to see and you certainly aren't going to change her. You have never felt heard and you are still trying to feel heard. I don't think that is going to happen._

If your mother is a borderline, then her arguments about your parenting don't have anything to do with your children. Her behavior has nothing to do with your children and everything to do with YOU. As is typical of borderlines, they vary between idolizing you, needing you, loving you, and hating you, pushing you away, doing things to push your buttons to make you go away. I think the issue with her comments about your parenting is designed to push you away, because she is threatened somehow by your relationship with your children. The way you are raising your children is loving and kind and she can't stand that you are loving and kind to someone else. She wouldn't be very aware of these motivations; she only knows if you don't love her fully and completely as she wishes then she has to attack you, and the best way to attack a loving mom is by attacking what is most precious to her - her interactions with her children.

There are a few things you could consider. If you are interested in trying to give your mother what she needs, you could write basically a love letter to her, telling her you will always love her, that your love for her has not been replaced by your love for your children. And sidestep the parenting issues and her behavior altogether. However, a borderline will never feel loved enough so its kind of a hopeless battle, really. Although many borderlines in middle age have a symptom decrease and mellow out a tad.

Otherwise, you could limit contact with her and her battles with you. That would probably be healthiest for your family, I think.

I think you wrote a wonderful, nicely-written letter, and you should send it for yourself; to establish firm boundaries with her, for yourself. She's not going to be able to understand it, probably, and will only see it as an attack and a threat, but you will have done what you needed to for your own well being and your family's, and that's what is important.

My mother was also a borderline. She was diagnosed when I was in my early 20's.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

I think your letter is very elequently written. You note that you suspect your mom has a personality disorder - I suspect the same of mine. My husbands mother struggled with full blown mental illness -- and everytime I want to write something like this to my mom he tells me his motto -- "Don't Engage the Crazy People". In DH opinion these type of interactions are akin to "trying to teach a pig to sing" -- it is not possible and it "annoys the pig".

"Annoys the Pig" - has become a catch phrase in our house. Whenever I feel the need to vent at my mom - DH says - hey, stop thinking about annoying the pig.

Anyway - FWIW - another alternative is to call her up and say - "Hey mom, something came up and we can't make it this weekend" - -and ignore her calls for a good long while.


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## Dal (Feb 26, 2005)

If you send it, I'd definitely cut the "Get over it!!!" It seems like you cared about her feelings in everything else that you said. She could just wallow in the last line if you left it at that.

I hope things improve!!!


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

I don't think the letter is too harsh at all, especially given the history. Yeah, it shows that she still affects you, but she's your mom! Does anyone stop caring about what their parents think? I think I came pretty close to doing just that with my own parents, but I had an incident with my own mom that brought up old feelings again. There are so many powerful feelings associated with mom.

I would definitely send the letter. What you're trying to convey to her is very important and I think this is the best way to be heard (or read). A phone call would not give you the luxury to lay it all out.

Whether mom or not, if she is causing you stress and anxiety, she has to be confronted and given the opportunity to change. I think a break is a great idea. At the end of it, you may want a relationship after all, but I wouldn't want things to continue the way they are with her right now. It sounds exhausting.

ETA: Tie-dyed makes sense too! I like the idea of asserting yourself without explanation. Give you more of the power.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Its a well written letter. I think writing it was an excellent exersize -- and it was healthy to articulate your feelings on the matter.

That said, no I wouldn't send it. It will lead to a blow up that will not be rational, and will be full of drama and martyrdom. What I would do is cut out this part:

Quote:

On the phone, just now, I agreed that the 4 of us would come to your place on Saturday to celebrate my birthday. BUT I have decided, using my better judgment, and following my intuition, not to get together with you this weekend. I was rushed and pre-occupied when I was on the phone with you and said we would come, and I have had some quiet time to reflect.
I feel stressed out and pressured at the thought of spending time with you.
I am taking a break from seeing you.
And articulate that you are worn thin by her constant critisism or your children and of your parenting techniques. I would state in one sentence that you feel confident in your choices. I would _explain nothing_ regarding the way you parent your children. Do not try to convince her unless she appears ready to be convinced. It will not help.

Good luck mama. Do what you need to in order to set boundries and enjoy a peaceful birthday, but don't do anymore than that! A big fight will not help the healing process.


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## Englishmummy (Sep 30, 2005)

Oh I really feel for you. I have very similar issues with my own parents- although I am not an only child, so do not hold all the responsiblity.

Have you read anything by the author/ psychiatrist Alice ****** (www.naturalchild.org)? I think it really helped me, because she talks about not trying to forgive or understand your parents (maybe you know this all already). It helped me re-direct my anger towards my parents (in my mind only) and not at myself and my husband. I now live in Japan and my family is back in England and it helps- although my mother came to visit me, upset me (enormously), but when she had gone I just felt renewed effort in my fight to be a great mother to my child. I will not argue with her anymore- there is no point (she can not understand- 'don't annoy the pig' stuff) and I want my son to see me as a mature adult- I think it is great inheritance for him.

As for your letter- it was great to read. But as has been said in pps and you said yourself- you are still looking for her approval. You are barking up the wrong tree. If she changes, it will be up to her (I always imagine my mother going crazy and sweet in her old age







) to make amends with you.

Sorry, I hope this is not too patronising.

Take care. Lots of love.
Ps. NO you should not send it- it will just cause you more pain in the long run.


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## annarosa (Aug 30, 2004)

your letter certainly makes your feelings clear - sounds like you are someone who knows her own mind and her own feelings !

two things I'd say
if you send it definitely cut out the 'get over it' bit at the end it is just too rude in my view

second
do you really want to send it ? writing it and sharing it here are also pretty effective .....
I actually think it would be best for you to maybe think about what you DO want from her - for yourself and for your children ???
and make a list of these things

rather than focusing on what you DONT want from her

then when you see her or speak to her you can do the broken record kind of thing and just constanly tell her what you do want
eg. hey Mum please can you keep silent when ...
I need some support today please can you tell me some things that you like about my parenting/my DD

just a couple of ideas
sounds like you are your own person but we all need support, help and encouragement - so go on ASK her for some...


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

EXCELLENT letter. If you took out the "Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" line it would be completely a "I'm taking the high road" letter.

I worked in inpatient psych at a county hospital for 4.5 years so am a bit familiar with borderline personality disorder - very difficult to deal with. I think folks suffering from that need honest, open feedback, which is exactly what you are giving in the letter.

Best wishes,
Tracy


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## mrsfatty (Dec 21, 2004)

keep us updated!


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

thanks so much for your replies thus far! i am really thinking about this.

my intent was, i guess, two-fold, to try to convince her, and to let her know how i am really feeling. i would love to try to ignore her calls, but the unfortunate fact is that she will call and call and call, and leave endless messages on the machines, which escalates her even more when she gets 'in a state'.

i will look up alice ******. i have read some melody beattie (codependency) literature which has been helpful, but nothing about borderlines (it was just suggested to me recently).

i think you were right, those of you who said sending it might not be worth the fall-out. she will get defensive, and then say, "did you tell everyone what a terrrible f'ing mother you have?!", and i don't want to go there again.

i am lucky in that she lives in another city, a little over an hour away, so there's no constant contact, anyway. i moved to escape her behaviour.

her health is not great, and anytime there is conflict (which she always pins solely on me), she says her heart hurts, she's not sleeping, etc, etc, etc. in my mind, i know better than to accept responsibility for her health, feelings and actions, but in my heart, i still wonder.

i guess the other reason i seem to want to convince her is that a part of me second-guesses myself when she calls our parenting into question. many times she has mentioned the 'nanny' shows, inimating that i need that kind of help.

she adores my kids, and they her. she will see my taking a break as 'punishing' her. i really have no interest in seeing her, though. relations have always been strained, and she blames that on me, too, for not 'letting go'.

i still don't know whether to send the whole letter or not, but i feel anxious and scared at the thought of doing so. i feel the same way about telling her we're not coming-but *that* i'll have to do, no matter what. it's not worth a visit to try to make her happy (that's what it'd be for) to have to feel like i'm 'sitting on' dd lest she say or do anything grandma won't like. we would all be tense and the kids will pick up on it. yuck.

argh.

i will get through this. my kids will not be scarred by me (i hope), the way i am scarred.

thanks for listening, i really appreciate it.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think the fact that thinking about sending it makes you anxious is your best answer. Your childhood sounds a lot like mine, though my parents didn't have any mental health issues on top of it. Just a really, really different view on parenting, the role of parents and children and goals for us kids. Yes, it still hurts a lot.

I think you are right to take a break and definitely right to decline for the upcoming visit. I probably wouldn't send the letter because I don't think it will accomplish anything between the two of you. If it would make you feel terrific, then it would be worth it. But that doesn't really sound like the case.

Get your approval of your parenting style from other sources. Limit contact as necessary. Make the contact you do have on your terms and on your ground. We very, very rarely visit my parents because it shifts the power too much towards them, while in my house I can always say "my house, my rules" and that usually stops the discussion (at least too my face, I know they talk about me all the way home!). Be strong for the sake of your kids, as well as the sake of your adult self!


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

I hope this is not too off-topic, but for those of you who think you shouldn't "annoy the pig", I was wondering, do you just give up on the parent altogether? My mom is bi-polar and has been diagnosed with psychosis along the way. She's been truly "crazy" the past few years, but growing up, she was pretty sane. She did act bi-polar though and was basically neglectful and worse. I'm sure her underlying mental illness did contribute to her parenting style. But here's my question. Can't I expect that she take responsibility for her behavior, past and present? I don't know. I guess just dismissing their behavior seems maybe condescending to them and dissatisfying to me. I don't mean to criticize the idea. I think it's funny and I think there's something to it. But I'm asking a genuine question about it. Thanks.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommay*
I hope this is not too off-topic, but for those of you who think you shouldn't "annoy the pig", I was wondering, do you just give up on the parent altogether? My mom is bi-polar and has been diagnosed with psychosis along the way. She's been truly "crazy" the past few years, but growing up, she was pretty sane. She did act bi-polar though and was basically neglectful and worse. I'm sure her underlying mental illness did contribute to her parenting style. But here's my question. Can't I expect that she take responsibility for her behavior, past and present? I don't know. I guess just dismissing their behavior seems maybe condescending to them and dissatisfying to me. I don't mean to criticize the idea. I think it's funny and I think there's something to it. But I'm asking a genuine question about it. Thanks.

As with all posts - its just "our experience". DH and I are not doctors or anything. All I can say is that in our experience, these people are not self aware or able to see your reality. They see their reality. And engaging them has only served to further frustrate us -- and solved nothing with them.

"It Annoys the Pig" has been our way to find "levity" in the situation - you know, add some humor to an otherwise humorless and painful subject?

We have lowered our expectations of our parents - and have found some "peace" that way. Whenever they overstep their bounds - we withdraw contact for awhile. Whenver I want to lash out at something horrendous my mom has done - "annoying the pig again?" comment from my husband - and I crack up -- and move on.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

My advice is never to have nasty conversations by mail. I never put anything on paper (or email!) that is inflammatory because I don't want to rehash my words in 10 months or 10 years. Email adds the option of forwarding to others with "Poor me!" attached.

That said, if you were gonna send it, I would cut out all the reasons and just give the actions you intend to take,
"I am taking a break from seeing you. We are doing what is right for us. We are doing things differently than you did. This does not make you wrong, nor does it make us 'right'. We are doing what we believe is best for our children. I could give you numerous references to information about our parenting approach if you like. We will not be going over to your house this weekend."


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## mykdsmomy (Oct 10, 2004)

I agree with the pp who said keep it simple and dont give explanations.....I could have written your letter and sent it to my mother, mother in law and social worker!!!!! Seriously.....
I wish you luck and offer you tons of


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

You might check out "The Dance of Anger" or "The Dance of Intimacy". Both are by the same author. They helped me to establish "bottom line" acceptable behaviors that I was or wasn't willing to tolerate in my relationships. They also helped me to communicate those boundaries to others in an non-adversarial manner, respecting both their autonomy and mine. Mostly, they are empowering to recognize that I did have choices. And one of those is the ability to *choose* not to associate with others who don't respect or honor my personal boundaries.

The catch, however, is recognizing the difference between boundaries and limits, and which you apply for yourself and which can NOT be applied to others. Grandchildren certainly complicate the issue. And as I honor our son with the same autonomy of choice to associate or not (irrelevant of my own preference for him), it does get complicated and uncomfortable at times for me. For instance, our son loves my sister and mother, but we have very different beliefs and philosophies. Our son's autonomy allows him to choose to engage in these relationships despite my preference to limit them.

The books helped to change "the dance" (my part) of the repetitive patterns of conflict. I will note that I chose not to continue to have a relationship with my father who I felt had always been abusive to me and was unwilling/uninterested/unable to change. My father also has no relationship with our son, by my initiative. So, abuse was a boundary to which our son's choice was limited. However, our son will have the choice to initiate that relationship in the future if that is his wish. But only with my constant supervision and only to the extent of his continued interest and consent. He is four now.

If your children are older and have an established relationship, moving might be easier than limiting. But again, I would consider their *consent*. I would honor and support them to continue the relationship with your presence and support, perhaps at a neutral location. Children make life more rich and more complex.

The book "Peace Is Every Step" by the Buddhist monk, Thich Nhat Hanh and his new book "ANGER" might be useful too. I found the first book helped me to better understand why I value what I do, in relation to the experiences of my past, both painful and joyful. And how my parent's values were in relation to the experiences of their past both painful and joyful. I found for myself that I needed a break from the pain to gain some perspective.

Although parenting our son also helps me to care for my inner child in the manner I would have preferred and heal too. So, as a mother, I have learned to give *myself* the love, nurturance and listening that I sought and did not receive in childhood. And I am learning now at 43 to have compassion for myself and learning to validate myself to avoid those things that cause me pain, to change those things that I can, and to recognize the difference.

Best wishes,

Pat


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree with Apricot and others who have said the same. I wouldn't send anything. I would say in person that snippet about doing things differently, end of story. And then maybe limit your time with her for awhile.
I don't believe sending anything will help anything, though I'm not intending to sound dismissive of you having written it. I could write one, and I have written shorter ones via email. It's not like it helped. And I think my (legitimate, I think) anger just made me look like a loose cannon and in their eyes just overshadowed the actual points.
my .02


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

well, knock me over with a feather! she must have been medicated during my call................

i was all in knots, trying to get up the guts to call my mother just to tell her simply that we are not going to her place on Saturday. seriously, i felt sick to my stomach, but i called.

she sang happy birthday, asked about my day, and talked about plans she'd made to decorate her place for hallowe'en for my kids for that day. so, i said i needed to talk to her about that, and told her that we wouldn't be coming on saturday. when she asked why, i told her i wasn't comfortable to go and that i didn't want to spend the time on pins and needles, and put everyone else on edge, too. (i really didn't want to explain much, at all).

she was calm







and said, 'i'm not on edge now'. i said but i would be saturday, and i didn't want to spend the day worrying if something might put her on edge. she said she had her heart set on it, and i said sorry, but we could do it another time, but i was not up to it this weekend.

we then went on to talk about a variety of other topics.

really, she must have taken some meds.

now, that's not to say that she won't call DH to rant at him tomorrow. she took a strip off him today on the phone because he was making me a roast beef dinner (he's a great cook) and he doesn't do it "her" way.

okay, maybe there's hope. perhaps she has swung into one of her calm phases.

thanks, mamas. i'll let you know if anything happens. but i've decided, given how uptight i was about just calling to cancel, that i am not going to send that letter right now. i will save it, though..

whew. i know i am not totally out of the woods (just til the next 'crisis she perceives), but i can breathe freely.

i have GOT to get over this.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Personally, I love it. My only other idea would be to have a summary at the beginning or end that clearly states what you want and expect from her in the future, and what you will do if she does not meet those expectations:

1. I will no longer listen to your opinions about my parenting. If you persist in doing so in the future, I will hang up the phone or pick up and leave immediately.

I know this sounds outrageous, but isn't she criticizing you for not doing that with your children? I like the idea of setting really clear boundaries and consequences.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Have you thought about reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Great book.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommay*
I hope this is not too off-topic, but for those of you who think you shouldn't "annoy the pig", I was wondering, do you just give up on the parent altogether? My mom is bi-polar and has been diagnosed with psychosis along the way. She's been truly "crazy" the past few years, but growing up, she was pretty sane. She did act bi-polar though and was basically neglectful and worse. I'm sure her underlying mental illness did contribute to her parenting style. But here's my question. Can't I expect that she take responsibility for her behavior, past and present? I don't know. I guess just dismissing their behavior seems maybe condescending to them and dissatisfying to me. I don't mean to criticize the idea. I think it's funny and I think there's something to it. But I'm asking a genuine question about it. Thanks.

Mommay -- without explaining my situation at any great length -- I want to say that my choice has been to forgive and move on. Without challenging my parents in anyway. IMO, forgiving means letting them off the hook, and not requiring that they take any responsibility for the past.

My reasons are that 1) I can't make her take responsibility, and I cannot force her to see things my way. 2) It would hurt her. 3) She can't do anything to fix it. What is done is done. 4) Being a mother myself helps me understand how impossible such a task must have seemed to a woman with few resources - emotional, social, and financial. She was up against a lot, and a victim herself.

In fact, everytime I loose my temper with my kids I remind myself how fragile she was and is. And how its only the grace of god and the blessings in my life that help me to do any better.

In my situation, working each day on forgiveness is a more sensible path. Creating a lot of drama and animosity would not heal anything, kwim?

Now as far as the present -- I am careful to maintain healthy boundries and give myself the space I need. I really think that if a wrongdoing is going to be addressed/challenged -- its best to do it before the sun goes down.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

Proudly AP, that's awsome. First of all, you stood up for yourself. That took a lot of courage, and then your mom gave you a reasonable response, which probably made you feel validated. Whether she goes buck wild tommorrow or not, at least you had a reasonably good experience with her today. That must be encouraging.

Do you think she's on meds? Wow, good for her. That's a good sign. Maybe it's an acknowledgement that she needs to change. I hope she stays on them if she's taking them. My mom is the type who really, really needs her meds, and bad things happen when she doesn't take them.

Scubamama, thanks for your book recommendations, I'm going to go look for them online now. I think I've heard of the "dance" books from a friend. I definitely need tools for setting boundaries. I let people break them with me and I break them with others as well unfortunately.







:

I hope I haven't hijacked your post too much, proudly ap, by having asked my own questions, but thanks to those who replied to them.

Tripmom, I understand. I can see how it lightens the load, and I might just repeat that to myself when mom starts acting up. Part of me already does this as I know her mental illness limits her. I feel bad when I have expectations of her that she just can't fulfill.

Mamaduck, that's really admirable that you could forgive and let go. I guess it's a process, so it's probably and onoing thing. I've tried to do that with both my parents, but I didn't know what to do with the anger. I didn't feel I was ready to forgive, though now it's a different story. My dad passed away, and all is forgiven then. It's probably different for different people, but once my dad passed, I saw that everything comes to an end, and I only wish I could have done more to appreciate the good parts, which everyone has. That should be a lesson for my mom. I do think that she did her best with what she had.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Mommay -- its not to say that there isn't still a lot of anger and work to do, kwim? Just that I'll deal with it myself, and not try to make them fix it for me. 'cause they won't.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

i think she took a sleeping pill. she's been on and off other meds,but she has many conditions, and is not always consistent with her anxiety (or whatever they should be called) meds.

i will look up toxic parents. i thought i had an old copy floating around somewhere, but hid it once when my mother was coming to visit-not sure where, that was ages ago.

you know, i agree, i can't expect her to change, nor to do what she is unable/unwilling to do. she did the best she could with me, given *her* life circumstances and her upbringing (i am hoping to break the cycle). but i still feel angry and resentful. i am not sure it would be *such* an issue for me if she treated me like and adult now, and with consistent respect.

one day at a time.

i think another problem she has is that she really doesn't like herself, and i think, on some level, she does feel guilty for some of the things she did to me (maybe i'm dreaming-she thinks she was justified), so inside her head is not a nice place to be, i think.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *inezyv*
Personally, I love it. My only other idea would be to have a summary at the beginning or end that clearly states what you want and expect from her in the future, and what you will do if she does not meet those expectations:

1. I will no longer listen to your opinions about my parenting. If you persist in doing so in the future, I will hang up the phone or pick up and leave immediately.


i like that suggestion. i am keeping the letter, who knows if i'll ever send it, but i agree with you and others who say to focus on what i want or need rather than what i don't want. that's exactly what i try to do with my children, so they know what i am asking of them.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Proudly AP*
i will look up toxic parents. i thought i had an old copy floating around somewhere, but hid it once when my mother was coming to visit-not sure where, that was ages ago.

For some reason, this made me LOL this morning.

I also wanted to second the thought that you wrote a GREAT letter. It really states your feelings in a clear and viseral way.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Apricot*
For some reason, this made me LOL this morning.


LOL, i said it kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it is true. kind of highlights the issue, or something, eh?!


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Sometimes bitterness and humor are not too far apart?


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## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

the question is: who is the letter for? you or her?

if you wrote it for you and it made you feel better to have written what you wrote, then just stash it away in a drawer and take it out in 6 months and read it and then see if you still want to send it.

if you wrote it for her to see, then i think you are just setting yourself up for more pain. AND you are still hooked into her. if you wrote it for your mom, then my suggestion is to burn it and spend more time learning how to not answer her phone calls, get hooked into her abuse and learn how to let her go.

i was married to a BPD and can tell you that they NEVER change, they get more slick, but they will always interact with you in the same way. so if you are hoping something will happen becuse of the letter, you need to spend more time giving yourself whatever it is you most want from her.










creating and having strong boundares and being very very honest with yourself about your relationship to her (not her behavior) is the best thing you can do for yourself in relation to her and hopefully this letter is a step in the right direction.








:

GL!!


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