# Severely eating disordered child - any advice?



## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

This is an issue that troubles me terribly. My own dd eats very healthfully, but her best friend (they are both four years old) is so extremely disordered when it comes to her eating. It seems to come from a variety of things - a natural pickiness, a possible physical aversion to new foods inherited from her dad, bad eating habits in the family, a lack of committment on the parents' part to change the child's unhealthy diet. Let me illustrate, because a lot of people say their kids are terrible eaters, but this kid tops the charts, trust me:

The only "real" food this child eats is rye bread and pancakes her dad makes on Sundays, and she drinks orange juice. Otherwise, her diet consists of snack foods like pretzels or cartoon-shaped crackers, or sweets. For dinner every night (and sometimes for lunch, too) her mom or dad picks up chicken nuggets at Wendy's and french fries at McDonalds (she is very particular about which fries she likes). The parents have actually come to reagrd this meal as the best thing she eats, and she will often be rewarded with dessert for finishing all of it. She keeps dropping foods from her diet - when she was two or three she used to eat cheese and bananas and macaroni and cheese (the boxed kind, but it beats M&Ms, I guess), but she will not eat this stuff anymore.

Her dad has very odd eating habits - he is extremely picky and says that as a child, unfamiliar foods would literally make him gag. He also likes fast food and he is very thin. Mom tends to cook meals only for herself (when she does cook), since dad and daughter don't really eat much. The usual ideas have not worked with her - I have let both girls help me make banana bread as a playdate activity, and this child enjoys the cooking but will not eat the results. I've tried fancy snack trays with cheese and fruit skewered on pretzel sticks, you name it. I always offer her the same thing my dd is eating, trying to show her that I assume she will eat it, but she always says no.

This child, at age four, still eats in a high chair in front of the TV (I think - I know she was still doing this as recently as six months ago). There is also a pantry filled with junk food in her house that she has access to.

I have witnessed a look on this child's face that actually looks like fear at the idea of trying something new - recently she was at my house for a playdate in the snow, and I made hot cocoa afterwards. She was very reluctant to try it, even though she usually loves chocolate anything, and the way she was watching my dd, me and her mom drinking it, you would have thought she was observing someone drinking blood. She did try it and said she liked it, but only took a sip or two.

She is verrrry skinny, has hair that looks kind of thin and dull, and just doesn't have that robust look that most preschoolers have. However, she doesn't get sick too often, has plenty of energy, and is bright and a generally great kid. However, I'm also used to how she looks - other people often think she has an illness or has just gotten out of the hospital. Once the visiting sister of another friend assumed she had leukemia.

The mom and I are very good friends, and otherwise she is a fairly competent parent - a little wishy-washy when it comes to putting her foot down, but so what. Once in a while she will ask me for advice about eating. She knows it's terrible, and hates the situation, but it doesn't look like she or her dh are doing very much to change it. My advice for the past two years has always been the same: eliminate all the junk, and four or five times a day sit her at the table, preferably with one or both parents joining her, with a plate of something nutritious in front of her, and always include one thing that you know she likes (not such an easy proposition with this kid, since she likes almost nothing healthy). Say nothing about how much she eats, and take the plate away when she is done. And remove all the junk from the home and never offer it to her anymore. She likes my idea but has never implemented it, and I'm sure it would have worked much better when the kid was two.

I love these people but it is hard for me to think about this and not feel like they are really neglecting their child. It upsets me so because they are otherwise caring, intelligent people and loving parents. I worry about this child as she gets older and her eating disorder gets worse.

Any advice that might be new and unusual enough to present the next time she asks? Thanks for reading...I know this is long.


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## Soleil (Jul 20, 2002)

I don't know, but since she is asking you periodically, maybe you can have an effect here. Maybe you could recommend taking her to a dietitian? If it were me, I'd have a name and number "handy" for the next time she asks. Maybe the experts can help her where you can't. ???


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Does she have a medical problem. I had a kid in my preschool who was on a feeding tube because he refused to eat all most anything. He was only 3. He has some sort of sensory integration disorder and it was very uncofortable to eat many things so he wouldn't do it. Their really wasn't any ryme or reason to it either. Like he would eat pretzels but only small straight ones or would eat peanut butter but only one brand. Same thing with cereal. His parents were about the same type your friend seems to be. Desperate for him to eat so would just give in and let him eat anything he wanted. Maybe she (and dad) have the same thing.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Well, she doesn't really have any of the other symptoms of sensory integration disorder (I have a friend whose son has SID, so i am familiar with it).

A dietitian probably would be a good idea. I know her ped. referred them to a nutritionist about two eyars ago, or maybe a year and a half, and they did all these tests on her that came back negative, but as far as addressing her diet - nothing.







:


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm sure it is frustrating for you but there is really nothing to be done so I would try to stop worrying yourself about it. I agree it is extreme - and a shame. But her parents have a naturally picky child whom they have allowed to eat this way all the four years of her life. It is not going to change. Doesn't sound like they have any real desire for it to change. And truthfully, even though it is not terribly healthy, she will survive it.
I would do exactly what you have been doing so far (your tries at your house when she is over for a playdate were excellent - as was the advice you gave the mother) with the exception of trying to let it go - as far as it bothering or upsetting you. Even if you see her quite often, you cannot fight the constant example of what happens in her house, what her dad eats, what foods they choose to have in their house, what they offer/feed her.
The only up side to this is that maybe other people will see what this creates (how feeding your child ANYTHING to get her to eat turns out in the long run) and decide to offer healthier choices to their kids.
There are extremes to both sides - I agree with you that this is extreme to one way. But I also feel badly for kids who never get to taste a girl scout cookie or eat Halloween candy - there is a happy medium IMO. My college boyfriend's mom let him have koolaid but only made with honey. He said it was awful.
I hope your friend at least gives her daughter a good vitamin...
Kirsten


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## Trishy (Oct 15, 2002)

This really hits home for me because there aren't many things that my almost 20 month old ds will eat. He still eats jarred foods but is starting not to like them so much. All of the jarred foods are stage 2, I bought some stage 3 foods to try again recently and he gagged on them. He likes crackers, grilled cheese sandwiches, cereal in milk, chicken nuggets, baked french fries, strawberry applesauce, bananas and raisins. I continutally offer him new foods but he will not even try them. If I put something to his face that he is not familiar with he hisses, kind of like a cat. He will drink smoothies, water, orange juice and milk. I really want my son to eat a wider variety of foods and this is not because of lack of offering or pickiness on my or my dh's part. We eat a variety of foods in the home, including vegetables. I have been known to put him in his high chair with a video on because I know that he will eat almost everything familiar that I have put on his plate. I really worry that my son will be like this when he gets older. I WANT him to eat more foods but I don't want to force him. I don't want to with hold all foods from him until he eats some green beans or peas. He looks healthy to me and he is gaining weight. What should I do?


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

trishshack, your son sounds a lot like mine did at that age. I don't know how it happened, but he is slowly turning into a real eater lately! He recently turned 2.5 years old. He, too, had (and still has) the major gag thing going on, combined with the fact that he literally shivers when he tastes a new or unexpected taste...it still happens several times per meal! I trust that because you and your family are eating healthy foods around your son, although you feel he's not doing enough of it himself, he will slowly but surely come around. If he is gaining weight (mine didn't for a period of about 6 months, during wich raisins, graham crackers and yogurt were his only foods) and if he is energetic, don't worry at all! I am much more concerned about the friend of LunaMom, who seems to have been taught poor eating habits, which reinforces her own preference for the junky stuff. And the whole "high chair in front of the tv" thing for a 4 year old just sounds really weird to me! This family seems to have taken all of the joy out of a meal for the poor child- no wonder she doesn't like it. BathrobeGoddess thought of what I immediately did, SID, but LunaMom, you know this little girl and I don't, so if you say no, I'm sure you're right. She still could have some other physical problem- maybe the structure of her throat or esophagus makes textures unpleasant or something...I don't know. What a sad situation!


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## earthcore (Feb 24, 2003)

My little brother was really, really picky about food when he was a preschooler. It turns out he has obsessive-compulsive disorder. Maybe that's the problem.


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## Benjismom (Aug 24, 2002)

I think there's hope for this girl yet. My son is a very very picky eater and an outsider looking at what he eats some days would be horrified! He too has dropped foods (he is now almost three) and has a limited repertoire. He also really likes some "junk" foods like Goldfish and ice cream, though he goes for long periods without requesting or eating sweets.

He had a very rocky transition to solids because of oral motor delays and sensory issues, though he doesn't have SID. We saw a feeding disorders team at the children's hospital where we lived then and they told us he would probably be very finicky because new textures (and also tastes to a lesser degree) really freak him out. My mother, who is an eating disorders therapist (for grown women not children) strongly advised us not to make eating a power struggle because this could backfire and cause later problems.

Without any prompting, he is now beginning slowly to try new foods, including nutritious ones. This is not to say that he always embraces them; sometimes he'll take one bite and spit it out or like a food one day and refuse to eat it the next. My husband was also an extremely picky eater and we participated in a study at the children's hospital; they are doing research to determine whether certain eating behaviors have a genetic component.

So your friend's child could change just on her own. I agree that keeping the less nutritious food out of the way (I personally couldn't eliminate all sweets and snack foods from my own diet!) would be a good idea. But eating patterns at this age are not dispositive of lifetime habits. I'm sure it's very frustrating for her family (and sometimes they may take the path of least resistance as I definitely do when I'm too worn down to do the right thing). (The poster who mentioned OCD may be on to something; my mom says almost everyone with OCD had it as a child and those symptoms are very often not recognized.)

Beth, Mom to Benji (3/23/00) and Maggie (1/24/03)


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## The Lucky One (Oct 31, 2002)

I didn't read through the other responses, so I hope you've gotten some good advice. I just hope for God's sake, that someone is giving that kid a multi-vitamin. That would help at least somewhat.

Our ds is also a very picky eater (but by no means THAT bad, at all). I was talking to my best friend's mother about it the other day and telling her how worried I am that he isn't getting all he needs. She just laughed and said her kids were raised on Tang and a vitamin









But seriously, that little girl will probably pay for all this junk food down the road. I hope her situation changes.

lisa


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Thanks for all your replies, and I would certainly welcome more!

As far as OCD is concerned...well, she doesn't seem to have the other symptoms of OCD, but what's funny is her mom has a couple of idiosyncrasies that are a little OCD-ish, although she is fully aware of them and often makes fun of herself. For example (and this is the mom, not the kid), she likes things to be in rainbow order. Like crayons - if the kids are drawing and they finish, she will rearrange the crayons in rainbow order! She laughingly calls this "my rainbow disorder







" and she doesn't stress out or anything if things are out of order, but she will definitely rearrange things when she can. Plus she is funny about complete sets of things, like if there is a toy her dd gets, she feels the need to get the other toys that go with it, and seems to feel a bit uneasy until the set is completed. Again, something she laughsd at herself about. Hmmmm...I wonder if people can have very, very mild OCD?

Benjismom, I'd be interested in more detail about your ds if you are willing to give it. How bad was his diet? What kinds of things is he starting to eat now, and how do you go about introducing them? It's good that this change is happening when he is still fairly young - I feel like the older my friend's dd gets, the harder it will be.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

LunaMom- about mild OCD- yes, totally possible. I have it. I can tell you more at another time!


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## bestjob (Mar 19, 2002)

I think that you could work through the mom with information about a dietician. Other things you could encourage are making the mom aware of the unhealthy foods they're feeding the little girl. Wouldn't it be better if she just ate pancakes and orange juice than having french fries every night for dinner? Then, if she were to change and become less picky at least she'd be starting from a fairly healthy basis and not just expand her repertoire to other forms of junk.

Is your friendship strong enough for her to understand if you suggest that she get professional help for the whole family? I'd like to suggest it to one of my neighbours, but she really doesn't want to hear it from me. She needs to discover it for herself or from someone she trusts deeply, and though it hurts me to see her children be hurt, I have to take the long view and let that family live their lives.


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## somemama (Sep 25, 2002)

I was a very picky eater as a child. But I was never allowed to live off junk food.

I would offer this child SEVERAL healthy choices, and tell her that she needs to choose to eat one. Sooner or later she'd figure out that she wasn't going to get Mickey-D's anymore, and she could still be picky.


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## faeriedreams (Feb 16, 2003)

Perhaps you could offer your friend some ideas on how to make the foods that she does like healthier?
If the mother breaded and baked strips of chicken breasts, that would be a much healthier alternative to the deep-fried "chicken???" nuggets that mcdonalds serves.
french fries could also be baked or roasted and made from real potatoes.
It might take her a little while to adapt to these changes, but if her parents commit to not running to the fast food restaurant right away, she probably would adapt.
When she is used to those, very similar foods could also be introduced. Maybe sweet potato fries that are prepared identically to the other fries, then roasted vegetable sticks.
Breaded fish strips that look just like the chicken strips could be added.
If her parents are not willing to eliminate the junk foods, they might be willing to buy similar foods from a health food store. Pretzels, crackers, and cookies made with whole grain flours and natural sweeteners would actually add some nutrition to her current diet. Pancakes could also be made with a whole grain pancake mix. Dad could add applesauce and other not so noticeable, but very healthy, things to his pancakes.
I might also suggest setting up a behavior plan with some sort of incentive for trying new foods. She could get a sticker each time she tries something new (even if it is only one bite), then when she receives 5 stickers, she could select something special to do (maybe even going to mcdonalds for her favorite meal!!)
And I agree with the other posters who suggested sid, or some other sensory issue. Her sense of taste might be overly sensitive, or certain textures of foods could be difficult fo her to eat.
Good luck!!!
Christy


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Christy, I appreciate all your ideas. And I have suggested many of those things to my friend, only to be met with the same response, "Well, we tried that and she wouldn't eat it." In fact, when I heard how the child eats daddy's pancakes, my first idea was whole wheat pancake mix, but the DAD won't eat that, is what I was told. Frustrating. Of course, when you said it might take a while for her to adapt to the changes, well, that's the key here - neither parent seems willing or able to tough it out. Every time I was asked for advice, I always said, "I'm sure she'll freak out for the first few days, and it will be really hard, but she isn't going to starve herself." But it seems like neither parent wants to deal with the hard part.


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## madison (Nov 20, 2001)

There is a wonderful community online that you should check out, for eating disorders.

This child is only FOUR? She sounds like she's headed for trouble.

Check out www.something-fishy.org for some ideas and support.

It's an amazing website and community!!!


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## DeChRi (Apr 19, 2002)

My dd will be 4 next month and is a very picky eater. She has dropped foods consistantly since she has been on solids. It has been sooooo frusturating since we eat most everything. She is the same way in regards to just liking specific types of food. I mixed half regular syrup (what I normally have) and half lite syrup the other day and she could taste the difference and wouldn't eat it. She can taste the difference in many brands and won't eat most things. So I do the best I can. I buy the same 5 or 6 healthiest things she like (grapes, eggs, whole wheat toast, ham, roast beef, peas, green beans, pbj, and apples) and let her eat em over and over, and frequently introduce new things. And I give her a good multi vitamin. She did just try and like mangos! I was tickled.


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

Oh she is NOT headed for trouble! Get a grip. My son was the pickiest eater known to human kind until he hit 7. And yes, you would have gone like this







at his "selection" of foods that he would only eat. When your child is very, very thin and acts like it physically pains them to eat many foods, believe me you grab on to the ones that they will eat (even, gasp! french fries) so they don't starve to death.

He has Tourette Syndrome and OCD, although was not really showing any signs at that time (he was diagnosed at 6).

Now he eats more different kinds of foods than the average kid. His favorite foods are clams and endame and California rolls (he LOVES the seaweed part). He has a very healthy diet now, and loves salads and tofu and salmon.

I know you all mean well, but honestly--some kids are just very picky eaters to the extreme and it is not about just offering the "right" foods. I have 3 kids and they are all so different in their tastes. It is especially common for preschoolers to eat in this very unsual way, and they often grow out of it. If not--they are not doomed for life. Somewhere along the their lives they can change.


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## Benjismom (Aug 24, 2002)

Sorry this took me so long--I have a seven week old and the days just go by in a blur! My son was at one time in the not-so-distant past eating only the following foods: macaroni and cheese, "soy sauce pasta"--pasta with soy sauce and sesame oil, scrambled eggs, soy milk, ice cream, chicken nuggets, french fries, orange juice and bananas. (I told you you'd be horrified.) What's sad is that this was a reduction from earlier days, when he would eat chicken that hadn't been dipped and fried, pears, peas, corn, the heads of asparagus, apples and carrots.

A couple of things helped him start trying new foods, but one thing that didn't help was me pushing it (which I admit to doing despite advice not to). First, we started eating in different settings. My husband started a male-bonding ritual on the weekend of going to the diner nearby. The novelty of that, and I think the exciting feeling of being a big boy, spurred him to be a little more adventurous. OK, so he tried toast, jelly and bacon, but for him that's big. Toast was great because it led to bread and now sandwiches. Also, he occasionally tries something being served over at my sister's house, especially if his cousin is eating it.

The other thing that helped was peer pressure. He goes to a really great group child care that provides nutritious lunches and snacks. I still pack his lunch because I can never be sure what he'll do, but he has, at the urging of his classmates, tried some new foods there. The class does a lot of cooking too, which promotes trying new foods. He went back to eating apples as a result of the experience they had eating fruit salad. He has also tried pizza (doesn't really like it) and now likes and eats oranges.

I also started to realize how important texture is to him. He loves crunchy foods so I have exposed him to popcorn (no butter) with great success and healthy crackers, with the hope of getting some hummus or other healthy spread in him at some point. You mentioned that your DD's friend's dad had gagged at certain foods--it may be that he has a mild sensory issue with food and his daughter does too. Occupational therapy can help with desensitizing the mouth and introducing new foods.

Good luck to everyone

Beth, Mom to Benji (3/23/00) and Maggie (1/24/03)


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## NicoleElizabeth (Nov 20, 2001)

You might recommend the book "How to Get Your Kid to Eat... But Not Too Much" by Ellyn Satter. It essentially gives the same advice you are giving her, but the author is a professional dietician, so it might carry more weight. She has many ideas for helping to deal with situations that have gotten out of hand, as it sounds like things have with this little girl, and brings up issues such as different children's different sensitivity to textures. It also deals with parents' own eating issues and how that carries over to their children, which sounds like a big issue in this family. She talks specifically about the phenomenon you mention of the little girl dropping foods from her diet that she used to like. She also has a book "Secrets of Feeding a Healthy Family" that has more information on the whole family, including parents. Satter's big focus is on the idea of division of responsibility -- that it is a parent's job to provide the "what, when, and where" of food: nutritious food at dependable intervals in an appropriate place, but the child's job to provide the "whether and how much" side of the equation. Once you as a parent have fulfilled your part, it is up to your child to do the rest, and no pressure should be applied -- whether negative by trying to withhold food from a child a parent thinks is eating too much, or trying to cajole or pressure a child into eating more, or rewarding them for eating.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Madison, I'm confused. Does SF address children's issues? I'm no expert on children and food but this sounds VERY different than a teenage/adult ED.


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

I wonder if you would like some advice from a former picky eater? I was definately like this as a small child. I can remember the way raw carrots felt in my mouth. They tasted OK, but the more I chewed them and the flavor ran out, the more disgusting they were until I had to spit out the chewed bits. Which of course was not OK with my parents, so I wouldn't eat it. I eat really well now, and as an older kid I tried all sorts of different flavors with no problem. Of course, the incentive was there. My parents enjoy good food, my dad is a bit of a gourmand, and I lived in a big city with lots of excellent ethnic restaurants. My little sisters were both like this, and they are both pretty flexible about what they eat these days (they're 12 and 14).

The only lasting result as far as I can see, for me, is that I am slightly overweight. (by american standards. the high end of normal, really.) The reason is this: I developed a habit of waiting a really long time between meals. My mom did not believe in snacks, she thought I would spoil my appetite for the next meal. A vicious circle, because I was so picky. When mealtime came around my blood sugar was so low that I got pretty crazy and argumentative, and would reject most foods in favor of starchy things like pasta, white rice, and bread, and dairy products. I'd fill up on those, and have no interest in the vegetable. Most meat made me gag due to texture (red meat), temperature (because I would let it get cold before I'd be encouraged to eat it), and appearance. I still pick all of the odd bits out of the chicken breasts, and cut all of the fat out of steaks and things. Anyway, when you wait so long to eat your body goes into "famine mode" and stores up all of the energy it can, as fat, when food comes in.

These days I'm pregnant, and I've been eating like this and letting my blood sugar run way down. My midwife has me eating every two hours, even if I don't want to. What I am noticing is that since I have to eat before I feel the sugar crash that I associate with hunger, I am less likely to want really heavy, bready, fatty meals.

My advice would be to make sure and offer this girl something she will eat, with some protein that she will eat, every two hours or so. (Of course, if she won't eat warmed over chicken nuggets that could be an issue...I bet they'd be better in an oven or toaster oven than in the microwave) I wouldn't even worry about diversity for a while. After a few days, then start adding some different fresh fruits and things along with the familiar food, like someone else said, without comment.

I'm not trying to say that being "overweight" is a bad thing, I think the concept is pretty insulting really. Letting your blood sugar spike and crash is harmful, though. That's what ultimately causes things like adult onset diabetes. (And gestational diabetes symptoms, if I'm not careful...) In the short term you have less energy for playing and learning, and healing from illnesses and growing and stuff like that.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

As someone who was not a picky eater but who works with young children on the Autism Spectrum, I'd like to offer the advice that most kids with either SID issues or just SID to food issues aren't just going to pick up a new food and gobble it up, even if it's something they will eventually love.

My current student has now eaten almost 80 new foods in the last year as a result of our food program. However, at the beginning, we'd have to try each one at least several (2-7) times before he'd eat them. This works for kids who don't have any disabilities as well.

Kids sometimes need time to adjust. So what I do with him is let him to what he is comfortable doing. Now (a year into this program) he might pick up a new food from his plate at the dining table and eat it in 10 seconds OR he might only be willing to try touching it to his lips outside of the house (read: not at dinner time or at the table or with a plate - all related to eating time)
When the latter happens, each time, he'll try it a little more - put it on his lips, lick it, put it in and take it out of his mouth, eat little nibbles, etc. Although I push him a little, I let him take his time. In this way, he is now willing to try new things that are completely unrelated to his old diet of snack foods (like RAW BROCCOLI!!!!!! CARROTS! HUMMUS AND PITA BREAD!!!)

So I would advise her parents to try this. (and anyone else here with picky kids). They must have her do something to try it, even if it means just picking it up and getting used to the texture on her hands and cheeks, and then letting her stop when she's ready, offering it again the next day, etc. with some encouragement to keep going. Keep offering it until you are sure that they ACTUALLY don't like it after many tries. I also model it (that's how we started) by having him imitate me touching the new food to my hands, cheeks, nose, lips, smelling it, etc. With LOTS of praise for each little baby step.

The TV thing? That's horrible. They are training her not only to eat in front of the TV but to not pay any attention to her food, how much she eats, what it tastes like, etc. And this detracts from eating being a nice thing, a good thing to share with people, etc.

Hope this helps!
Emily


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

p.s. ALWAYS start out the program with foods you KNOW your child will like - make them as junky as possible. This will not teach your child to like junk food exclusively. What it will do is give them internal motivation to try new foods. (a realization of "Oh, I like this! New foods can be tasty!" for them) Only once they are comfortable with the concept have I slowly introduced "different" foods that have very different textures, and less importantly, tastes. So with my student, we started out with new snack foods, new candies, new popsicles, etc. Of course he liked most of them. Then we moved onto fruits (healthy but still sweet) then the healthier stuff. We could also do some substituting once he was comfortable with trying new things, like whole wheat bread instead of white bread on PB&J, different PB, almond butter instead of PB, etc.

My student LOVES hummus!


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## thirtycats (May 14, 2002)

Quote:

Oh she is NOT headed for trouble! Get a grip. My son was the pickiest eater known to human kind until he hit 7. And yes, you would have gone like

I'm sorry, but I have to agree!! I was a super picky eater as a child and my niece is a super picky eater as well. All I ever wanted to eat (and all she wants) is sweets and carbs. I did eat vegetables, but I hated almost anything with protein.

I do think the parents you speak of (along with my parents and my sister) are setting the child up for bad food habits later on. They're doing the whole finish your plate and you can get dessert....UGH!!! But to say she has a major eating disorder now....Uh no. It's called typical-picky-eater-preschooler.

Dina


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

When I was 7, I ate nothing but macaroni and cheese. Literally nothing else. I guess I must have had something to drink, though. I did not have health problems. I did not have some sort of mental disorder. I simply ate what I liked and nothing else. Who wants to eat what they don't like?

My parents let me grow out of it on my own time, and I did. They didn't read books, didn't take me to shrinks, didn't call friends asking what they could do. They bought lots and lots of macaroni, and plenty of vitamins. One day I just decided I wanted a baked potato with broccoli and cheese, and I ate that, and from then on I was OK with new foods.

I would not encourage a child to try a food she did not like, or was uncomfortable with. I would not treat it as a behavioral issue, either.


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## girlzmommy00 (May 15, 2003)

I do agree, that some kids are just picky eaters. I do think this is the most common around ages 3-5 when they start to realize that they have control over what they do and don't eat. Most kids do grow out of it, but what concerns me here is the parents' eating habits. I'm concerned that the daughter won't outgrow these habits since she sees her parents eating like this daily. To her, eating like that is the norm and not something that needs to be changed. When you are 4, your parents can do no wrong and you want to do what they do and be like them. Though I do also agree that forcing her to eat what she doesn't want to is definately not the answer. It will just become a control issue and will very likely lead to more problems. It just really concerns me that the parents are making little to no effort to do anything.

I worry that watching her parents eating like this is just setting her up for some type of eating disorder in the future, and unfortunately, it could be the near future. I know it sounds crazy to some, but children as young as 5 and 6 are becoming more and more concerned about body image, dieting and their own eating habits. Drs are seeing children as young as 6 and 7 with eating disorders. When I say eating disorders, I'm talking about everything from anorexia to overeating. This was my pre-children career. I spoke to schools, etc about body image, nutrition and preventing eating disorders. I know it's hard to believe, but this really is an issue that does effect elementary aged children much more often than you realize. And more often than not, those children who do develop disordered eating habits, say that the eating enviroment at their home was a big contributing factor.

I don't know how well you know the parents, or how close you are with them. I'm concerned about the reasons behind their eating habits. Perhaps they grew up in homes where proper eating habits were not inforced. Some people are just picky but it sounds like they are taking it beyond the normal ranges of picky eating, esp if their picky eating habits are affecting their children. Personally I'd question OCD, an eating disorder, or even allergies (often times people find themselves avoiding foods they are allergic to with out knowing they are allergic).

Good luck (crying baby calling)


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## witch's mom (Dec 8, 2003)

Every day for breakfast, my 7-year-old DD has a bowl of cornflakes. For lunch, she takes organic turkey on sourdough and some organic pretzels--every day. For dinner, she'll eat bread and meat or one of the following: annie's organic mac & cheese, another turkey sandwich, a grilled cheese, a quesadilla, an organic turkey burger with cheese (no bun). She has not eaten a fruit or vegetable since she was a baby, unless you count cranberry-raspberry juice. She'll eat junk if it's around, but because the rest of her eating habits are so limited, it's rarely around. She's rarely ill, her hair is shiny and so thick they don't sell hair thingees strong enough to contain it, she's active and happy and doing great in second grade. I offer new foods all the time, and she recoils in horror. She's picky about textures, about strong flavors . . . she can taste the difference between Annie's ORGANIC mac & cheese and Annie's NONORGANIC mac & cheese. I agree with the posters who've said this little girl will probably be fine; this is just the way she is. That's what I have to believe, anyway, having failed to get my own picky eater to branch out. I see all the ideas on this thread and I WISH I thought DD would go for them. But there's no way. I completely understand the OP's friend who says, "Great idea, but it won't work" when someone makes suggestions. We've lived with this in our household since the minute DD was born and was fussy about nursing. Lo and behold, she's grown. And fortunately, she loves her multivitamins.

DD#2, who's 4, came out gobbling, nursed constantly and happily, reached across the table for brown rice and asparagus before she was six months old, and has continued to try anything and likes almost everything she's tried. Same parents, same foods available in the house. . . go figure. Let the flames begin, but I've sort of let it go with some sort of blind faith that my big DD will continue to grow and be healthy, even on her severely limited diet.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Wow, somebody resurrected this thhread of mine and it's pretty old!

Hate to report that this child's eating habits have actually gotten worse rather than better. She is now nearly 5 1/2, and I have no idea what she eats other than Wendy's chicken nuggets every night for dinner (as she has EVERY night since she was about 2 1/2) and a whole lot of junk food.

Witch's mom, the child of yours whom you describe as picky has what would sound like a dream come true diet for this kid. It's really that bad. She doesn't eat a single solitary thing that anyone would consider remotely nutritious. Not one thing. This is not an exaggeration by any means.

I have seen her eat chips, pretzels, candy, cake, "fruit snacks," Devil Dogs, and Wendy's chicken nuggets. I think she eats some kind of sugary french toast stick thing for breakfast. Oh wait - she might drink orange juice, but mostly I see her drinking Hi-C or some other sugary thing.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

If the parents won't change their eating habits, I don't see much hope of the child changing hers. It has to go both ways.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:

hair thingees
:LOL

Your friend's daughter does sound pretty extreme. It's good of you to care, but like Greaseball said, if the parents aren't sincerely motivated to do something, nothing's going to happen. Just enjoy your friend's company and ignore the daughter's eatting habits. If your friend actually asks for advice, maybe you could gently suggest they not just focus on dd, but also investigate her dh's eatting patterns.

The little girl may grow up with ocd and with diabetes. Or like some mentioned, she might just develope a healthy eatting habit as she gets older.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Whoa! Origional post was March 7, 2003!


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## mLeroux (Apr 8, 2002)

Greaseball said:


> My parents let me grow out of it on my own time, and I did. QUOTE]
> 
> I was a picky eater myself and I have come a looooong way let me tell you. My mom and dad worked and my grandmother was the one who basically raised me and my siblings so I guess she is the one who did not make a big deal about my eating. I as always a thin child. Not sickly looking thin but skinny. When my mom would take me to my check ups the dr. would say I was very healthly. So healthy that I did not even need a multivitamin if they did not want to give me one.
> 
> ...


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## thirtycats (May 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greaseball*
My parents let me grow out of it on my own time, and I did. They didn't read books, didn't take me to shrinks, didn't call friends asking what they could do. They bought lots and lots of macaroni, and plenty of vitamins. One day I just decided I wanted a baked potato with broccoli and cheese, and I ate that, and from then on I was OK with new foods.

I would not encourage a child to try a food she did not like, or was uncomfortable with. I would not treat it as a behavioral issue, either.

I agree.

I don't think being a picky eater is a problem. I think how parents handle it can cause a problem. My parents did some good things and some bad. On a postive note...they were very creative in finding healthy things for me to eat. I remember going to family camp where I refused to eat any of the "protien" foods. My parents would always pack a huge jar of peanuts. They let me dip chicken into breakfast syrup. Fun stuff like that.

On a negative note...Like most parents, they had the whole clean-your-plate -and- then -you- can -have -dessert game going on. I got so used of rushing through the yucky horrible stuff to get to the good stuff, that I turned into a fast eater. The sad thing is I even rush through the good stuff now. It's so hard for me to slow down. My niece is dealing with parents who have the same attitude. They're not very creative with their healthy food. They try to force her to eat stuff she doesn't like. Then they reward her with desserts. They're pretty crazy when it comes to food though. They criticize me for giving my DS pizza for breakfast (which has protien, vitamins, etc) and then give their daughter waffles drenched in syrup.

I don't get it.

Dina


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## Kermit (May 30, 2002)

Sorry to resurrect this thread again, but all you who are blaming this poor mom are well-meaning, but ignorant. I also have children with Tourette Syndrome, OCD and Sensory Integration issues and my youngest does not have SID but does have sensory issues.
The only fault of this mother is her pediatricians, for not insisting that this little girl needs Occupational Therapy for her feeding issues. The mother doesn't know how to help the girl because you need to be educated on dealing with this, it is not easy at all. This is not something you can fix by taking away all the junk food or forcing the child to eat the things she is terrified and appalled by. It just makes the problem worse.
If the OP is still reading this thread, plead with your friend to get this little girl evaluated by a qualified Occupational Therapist who deals with children with SID. You don't have to have the full-on disorder to have major sensory issues. I won't know until my son is older, but his feeding issues may be due to TS/OCD or they may just be Sensory related, but this is all too familiar to me. My oldest has had the same feeding issues.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm sorry, but there's a difference between a "picky eater" and a child who can be mistaken for a lukemia patient. A picky eater will get enough calories to look healthy and get by; even if they refuse to eat anything but buttered noodles they'll be fairly healthy. If this child looks really ill, it's a whole different issue.

Has anyone ever tried to get her to drink pediasure? It's very sweet, most kids really like it.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I just read this whole old thread and I actually might have something useful to add!
My mom told me that my first cousin's oldest child is having therapy for an eating problem. She also will gag on foods with certain textures. My cousin, who is a psychiatrist, now thinks that he had a similar disorder. He certainly doesn't eat many foods, I think the only vegetable he will touch is green pepper.

(He's the second person I've met who only likes green peppers, which to me is really odd since it's one vegetable I find sort of repulsive!







)

I don't know the name of the disorder, because my mom told me about this, not my cousin. If I speak with my cousin, I can find out the name of the disorder. It would make sense that if the father of the child in the OP can't deal with new foods and the daughter can't, that this might be something similar.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I was sensitive to many foods as a child. Nowhere near what is being described here, but certainly being forced to "eat all my dinner" was torture for me, and usually resulted in me gagging, which got me into more trouble.

My heart goes out to kids dealing with such sensitivities. I will NEVER "make" my child eat anything, and I second Kermit's suggestion to have an OT take a look at the situation.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I really appreciate all the new replies. This thread is more than a year old, but every reply has been helpful.

I'm sad to report that my friend's daughter has not shown any changes in her eating habits. I do not see them very often anymore because her daughter and mine go to different schools and it is hard to find time to get together.

I do not believe in forcing a child to eat anything, either, but I do think that having lots of junk available at all times and "enabling" poor eating habits are things that need to stop in this family.

I do think I am close enough with my friend to suggest an evaluation by an OT. I never mentioned the fact that this child tends to have her tongue protruding slightly some of the time, which I know can be a symptom of something that requires OT, right? I agree that the pediatrician is at fault for not being more aggressive in addressing this problem. I just can't imagine that she can go to the doctor for a check up and leave without having the doc even address her malnourished appearance. As eilonwy said, there is a difference between a picky eater who has a normal appearance and this child, who still does not look quite right. It is hard for me to judge her appearance as I've known her since she was six months old and I've never known her to look any other way, but the most noticeable thing is her hair, which is just really thin and dry-looking. I don't mean thin as in baby-fine, I mean sparse.

She is starting kindergarten this fall, and who knows what her parents will send in her lunch box. I'm hoping that someone in the school addresses the situation.

Anyway, I'm going to call her today; it's been a while since we spoke, and perhaps I can gently bring up the eating issue and suggest OT.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

OOOOOO - You should have mentioned the protruding tongue earlier!

Yes, she definitely needs to see an OT about oral/motor issues. I'm sure that is what's at play here. Her tongue is protruding because she has low muscle tone in her tongue (read: a weak tongue muscle) which means that she is not very aware of how to move her tongue to eat foods that don't fall into the easily crushed and mealy junk foods like pretzels and goldfish. Most people don't know how complicated eating is in terms of mouth muscles. She probably doesn't know how to move the food to the back of her teeth to crunch - kids with this issue often use their tongue to flatten the food and move it from side to side instead of chewing like we do - which makes eating new textured foods much harder. And the less she eats new foods, the harder it is (mentally, as well as physically) for her to do so - even when the issue is taste and not texture.

I'm sure that an OT program with various motor exercises and stimulation of various mouth muscles (like I do with my student, who know has eaten 92 new foods with a variety of tastes, textures, and yes, nutritional content) will make her more physically able to eat these foods, while a sensory program (by the same OT) will allow her to become able to get used to feeling new textures, smells, etc. Everything I wrote in my earlier post to this thread still applies.

My student (with moderate Autism, no less) went from a diet just like your friend's daughter, to lots of fruits, some veggies, many new textures and TONS of nutritionally-sound food, like pita bread with hummus, bagel with cream cheese, every fruit there is (he likes them all - after 2 years without a single piece of fruit), cheese, various fake meat products (they're vegetarian), etc. And he'll try any new food now.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Thanks for all the info, Emily - it's so nice to know that at MDC you can always find someone who is knowledgeable about whatever it is that's on your mind!

Let me clarify about the tongue, though - it's not protruding all the time, but she has a tendency to have her tongue moving around her mouth or poking out the corner at times, often when she is being "shy" and not speaking. She has always spoken well, though (and early - sentences by 18 - 24 months). She's not like one of those kids who always has his or her tongue just hanging there, you know? So would you say it's still an indication of weak tongue muscles?

Regardless, I'm still going to suggest the OT evaluation to her mom - it would be so wonderful to see this family finally find some kind of help.


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## Hope'smom (Mar 3, 2003)

I've been reading bits and pieces of this post--as much as I can between a baby and a toddler--and let me add just a few things that might/might not help.
The way you describe the child's appearance made me think of Celiac's Disease. Has the child been tested for this?
As far as I know, that's a test that needs to be done through an endoscopy.
I might be wrong about that, but when my dd was tested for CD, it was through an endoscopy. Her appearance could also be due to some hidden allergy.

That being said--my dd had feeding issues as a baby/toddler. She had sensory issues (has), and silent reflux. The things that helped us the most were: an OT who specialized in feeding disorders/sensory disorders, and a wonderful person who runs New Visions, a feeding disorder program--her name is Dr. Suzanne Morris. You can learn about New Visions by checking out her website www.new-vis.com
She is the best of the best. She has several books out and is EASILY accessible to anyone willing to email her. She is terrific.
I attended her parent workshop for kids with feeding disorders and came away with SO much information that helped my dd (and the whole family) learn to deal with feeding problems.

About eating in front of a TV (as one poster mentioned)--my dd was in the Children's Hospital Feeding Disorders Program, in Richmond, Virginia (one of three feeding programs on the east coast) and one of the tactics that they use to get to eat is to put them in front of the TV!! The idea is that something about the TV (usually Baby Einstein kinda stuff) is that it "organizes" children internally so that they will eat. No kidding. (We did this program BEFORE New Visions--in hindsight, I would have done New Visions FIRST--the philosophy was much more in line with my parenting beliefs--not the TV thing, but a lot of other things--pm me for details.)
My dd ate in front of the TV (as a feeding tactic) for the first two years of her life. Otherwise, she would NOT eat.
And believe me, I'd rather watch Baby Mozart ten thousand times, than have a tube placed in my child, if I can help it. Not that there is anything wrong with tube feeding, but it is not ideal if a kid will eat po (orally).
Many kids with sensory disorders result in tube-fed kids. As a parent who has attended two feeding programs with my dd, I've spoken to lots of parents who had kids (like mine) who were born at normal weight, at 38 weeks or beyond gestation and had problems like reflux or sensory issues and the next thing they knew--their kids had a mic key button!

I'm not saying that this girl will end up with a tube at this late date, I am just sharing my experience so you will see where my ideas/experiences are coming from.

Anyway--my suggestion to you would be to help your friend find an OT who specializes in feeding (you say your friend is wishy-washy, so maybe a gentle guide will help--meaning you







), check out Ellyn Satyr's work (I don't remember if that is the correct spelling), maybe suggest she see a pediatric GI for the possibility of Celiac's Disease or a pediatric allergist.

Lots and lots of kids eat lousy, but do not have the appearance that you are describing--which leads me to believe there is something else going on.
As for my dd--she will only eat a few (and I mean four!!) things and she looks healthy--shiny hair and eyes--you'd never know she'd been through two feeding programs!
And, she still eats a meal or two in front of the TV, when I think it will help her eat a little more.
hth


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hope'smom*
Lots and lots of kids eat lousy, but do not have the appearance that you are describing--which leads me to believe there is something else going on.

That's the thing-- most "picky eaters" actually get a fair amount of nutrition. Someone posted on this thread that they ate nothing but macaroni and cheese for a year, so I'll use that as an example. Mac & cheese contains calcium, protien, loads of vitamins (pasta is nearly always fortified) and even a little bit of iron. A child could easily get by on mac & cheese and never have a problem with malnutrition.

My mother ate nothing but Campbell's tomato soup and bread & butter for three years; again, there's way more nutrition in these two items than you might imagine. She was slightly built, but never showed signs of malnutrition. A diet with little/no variety tends to make adults cringe, but children often thrive upon the familiar. Human beings can survive and even thrive upon much less variety, diet-wise, than most of us have come to expect.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Hope'smom, what a great website! I didn't get to read too much of it, but it looks like it would be very useful for my friend and her daughter.

I truly hope that she can hear me with an open mind and actually give this a try. She is not offended or anything by me discussing it with her, it's more the wishy-washy thing. She'll listen willingly, but I don't know if she'll take any action.

Anyway, I left her a message today, so hopefully I'll get to introduce this new idea soon.


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## Hope'smom (Mar 3, 2003)

I just wanted to mention that you can contact Suzanne (via email) and she will willingly discuss with you anything regarding feeding--at no cost. In other words, she's not just after your money or to get you to sign up for a workshop. She's not like that at all. People often think that in order to get help for their problems that they have to sell their soul to the devil--kwim?
Maybe that is why your friend is wishy-washy?
I don't know, I'm just fishing here...who knows why people are wishy-washy.
But I did want to let you know that Suzanne is easily accessible and often gives her expertise and advice for free on a lot of feeding forums, like Yahoo feeding groups.
I first found out about her on a reflux website. One of the posters had found her information, had emailed her to ask about their own child and got a lot of great information/advice and shared it with the rest of us who were suffering through reflux with our kids.
After that, I sought out her books, read several of them and decided to attend the workshop. I left that workshop a whole new person--and my dd was much happier after I put into practice what I had learned.
Best of luck to you--your friend is lucky...I would give anything to have someone care so much about me and my kids.
HTH


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## iamama (Jul 14, 2003)

This is totally OT but my mom is a picky eater. She has a cup of coffee for breakfast no lunch maybe a diet soda. For dinner she has the hugest plate of salad with lots of good things in it but also bad things-no organic lettuce-ever. Dole iceburg from Costco and spinach, feta cheese, three bean salad and ranch dressing mixed with balsalmic. She will eat apple slices for dessert and sometimes ice cream. She walks 8 to 10 miles a day too!! She used to jog when I was a kid. I worry about her a lot bc this diet seems so extreme but it the way she is. She hates talking about it. My dad is always putting food on her plate to eat- if he didn't she'd be a skeleton. She is as healthy as a lark gets sick once a year. I guess some people are on their own playing feild when it comes to eating. It just seems like she burns more calories then she ever takes in...hows this possible? What would ya all do if your mom ate like this? Does this seem unhealthy to you? Sorry for stealing this thread.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Well, I mentioned the OT angle to my friend and she said that she was told by the school district that they won't evaluate her because they do not deal with feeding issues. I'm not all that clear myself on how this stuff works, but anyway, I asked her if she would be willing to pay for a private evaluation and she said yes, so I'm going to e-mail her the info from Suzanne Morris's site.

Hopefully this will lead to some sort of help for this child.

Thanks all, again.


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## Kermit (May 30, 2002)

Her insurance should cover OT at least partially if she is prescribed it by her pediatrician or family Dr. for the girl. I hope she has decent insurance. I have a PPO and had to pay quite a bundle, but insurance did cover after the deductible, 80% I can't afford it anymore so am getting my son evaluated by the school district.


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