# ? for those of you that don't limit screen time...



## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

I've read on here and other websites about not deciding for your kids how much tv is too much, and the utility theory really made sense to me. So for a couple of weeks now we haven't limited screen time (although we do limit content, but we don't have to say no, we just don't expose our kids to things that are too violent in nature or too mature). We have videos/dvds, but we don't have cable or satellite so we only have pbs. My youngest now asks and gets the tv turned on about 20 times a day, but he no longer watches tv. He used to park it anytime someone turned it on, but now he just walks away. My middle one doesn't watch too, too much...certainly no more than before. But my oldest (6yo) wants to watch all the time. That is if he's not using the computer. He plays his game for hours and hours every day. I've thought that if I don't say anything he'll get bored, but he's actually started playing more. He's stopped wanting to participate in other fun stuff like arts/crafts, reading (he used to LOVE to be read to), and he now often decides to stay home when we go do stuff like visit family, go to the store or playgroup....

He hasn't wanted to play outside either. If you started out limiting screen time, then decided not to, and have been successful (i.e. have children that do anything else) did you go through something like this? How long can I expect it to be? Does it mean it's just not going to work? Like I said, it's been about 2 weeks, and so far I've put no pressure on him at all to regulate and he's not self regulating at all.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I think a couple of weeks is too soon to make a judgement. I would certainly wait a couple of months before worrying. Because he has had limits longer, he may take longer to acclimate than the younger ones.


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## ChasingPeace (Oct 19, 2003)

Can you tell me more about "Utility Theory and screen time"? I haven't heard of it.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

I know the link is somewhere in this forum in the not too distant past, but this site is loading really slowly for me right now, so here's a summary:

It's basic economics. Let's say you like pizza alot. It's your favorite food in the world. The first slice you eat today is going to have a certain value for you - in my class they called the denomination of this value utils







. So the first slice might be so good it's 100 utils. The second slice you eat is going to be pretty good, but not quite as good as the first. So it might be 80 utils. Fast forward to the 4th slice and we're at about 20 utils. At some point, it's going to have a negative value for you - in other words you get more value from not eating another slice...you get to not throw up. Value/utils = happiness.

With tv, if they have been restricted in the past, your kids assign a really high value to watching it in many cases. But when they are allowed an unlimited amount of tv, eventually it stops giving them so much pleasure and there are other things they'd rather do.

HTH


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## jenmk (Apr 28, 2005)

I have not heard of this. Interesting idea. We talk so much about not making food choices for our kids and letting them decide so many other things on their own . . . and yet those of us with TVs will often limit it. Hmmm. Maybe I should try this with my 3yo. We do not actually get TV programming--no cable in our area and we're not willing to pay for dish--but we do have videos/DVDs for the kids.

If it was nice out, my kids wouldn't even remember there was a TV in the house . . . they love being outside so much. But in the midst of winter, we are inside so much more, so they do ask daily to watch. Sometimes several times a day.

Really interesting concept.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

My DS is 5 and change. Although we did limit some in the beginning (he was 2 1/2 or so when we "turned it on"), we now have a "don't offer, don't refuse" approach which works well for us--I don't want to be the one to offer it up, but if he asks, I don't want to turn it in to a power struggle and give it more power than it should. We've been doing this since he was 3 1/2 or so.

DS watches anywhere from 5-12 hours a week. However, most weeks, about 9-10 hours. We are limited to PBS and library videos and the few videos we own. DS isn't much interested in the comuter as of yet. My biggest concern with TV is about what is he NOT getting. If our weeks are balanced with lots of play, reading, family time, outdoor time, art, social time, and whatever else pops up, then the TV seems to keep it's rightful place at the bottom of the priorities.







IF OTOH, my DS is asking for more TV than my internal monitor is comfortable with, there is usually an underlying issue: he's not feeling well, he's tired, anxious, or most likely, feeling disconnected in some way. Rather than limit TV, I get proactive instead: focus on him a little more; play a little more, whatever he wants to play, etc. This is usually enough to get his energy and focus back up for those things he truly cares about. I have gotten into the habit of keeping track of how much he watches--jot it down in my journal at the end of the day. I don't use it as a vehicle for setting limits rather (if it does indeed seem more than usual) as a sign that I need to connect more with him.

I do wonder if your DS perhaps just needs more time with the new "plan." It may just be that initial feeling of "I get to decide so I'm going for it with gusto" feeling. My DS recently received his own library card. He can now bring home 4 VHSs and 2 DVDs every week where before, we had to split it up between us, and therefore he was limited in that way. I vowed NOT to interfere, and I'm glad I'm sticking to it. I found out that just because he loves the idea of getting to grab as many as his card will allow, it doesn't necessarily means he wants to watch them night and day. In fact, I find the more videos we have on hand, the LESS TV he tends to watch. But this could just be coincidence.









The best and I hope all works out for your family!

Em


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellona*
I know the link is somewhere in this forum in the not too distant past, but this site is loading really slowly for me right now, so here's a summary:

It's basic economics. Let's say you like pizza alot. It's your favorite food in the world. The first slice you eat today is going to have a certain value for you - in my class they called the denomination of this value utils







. So the first slice might be so good it's 100 utils. The second slice you eat is going to be pretty good, but not quite as good as the first. So it might be 80 utils. Fast forward to the 4th slice and we're at about 20 utils. At some point, it's going to have a negative value for you - in other words you get more value from not eating another slice...you get to not throw up. Value/utils = happiness.

With tv, if they have been restricted in the past, your kids assign a really high value to watching it in many cases. But when they are allowed an unlimited amount of tv, eventually it stops giving them so much pleasure and there are other things they'd rather do.

HTH

The problem with that theory is that for tv their are different episodes for each tv show and different tv shows so its not quite the same. If their was less variety like 5 different episodes of a show or 5 different videos, then it would definately work. TV provides too much variety and from what I watch, it provides a lot of suspense for the next episode "to be continued" ("oh my god what will happen next I will die if I don't see the next episode!")
If there is a supply of tv programs that are enertaining to him, the chances are that you child will continue at the rate he is going.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
The problem with that theory is that for tv their are different episodes for each tv show and different tv shows so its not quite the same. If their was less variety like 5 different episodes of a show or 5 different videos, then it would definately work. TV provides too much variety and from what I watch, it provides a lot of suspense for the next episode "to be continued" ("oh my god what will happen next I will die if I don't see the next episode!")
If there is a supply of tv programs that are enertaining to him, the chances are that you child will continue at the rate he is going.


Ah, but you forget, we only have PBS. They never have previews from the next show, none of the shows are done with a "to be continued" theme, and they play the same shows at least 2 times a day, each time it's the same episode. And there are very few new episodes. We have only the movies that we own, and we aren't buying new ones (same with computer games), although we do get movies from Blockbuster...those are always for a family movie night and happen no more frequently than once a week. (It wouldn't be reasonable even if I wanted it to be for them to get as many movies as they wanted from Blockbuster - there are eight people sharing our account and we can only get three at a time). So today he wanted to watch Maya and Miguel; an episode that he's watched alread about 5 times this week, and play a game that he's put in a million bazillion hours on even though it's the same thing every time he plays.

I really want him to be self regulating with the computer especially. The only two 'men' really active in his life (I use that term loosely because one is my teenage brother







) are obsessed with computer games. Dh will play games all the time. But dh really likes games and frequently wasn't allowed to play them when he was growing up (not just computer games) and it seems like he's making up for it now. My brother just has no motivation to do anything else. When he ws little his older brother and father played games all the time and he wasn't allowed to (or at most he was allowed a half hour a week). Now that he has his own computer he just goes crazy. When I was monitoring this for my kids it was a constant battle. I could really see him going down the same path as dh and my brother with the obsession thing.

Thanks everyone for the input so far.


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## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Smart mama! There really is no discounting the model we set for our kids. I use the computer a few times per week, usually to access the library catalog, email and visit MDC.







DH is a writer and uses it mainly for work, and also graphics, and reading the news. And then, we use it when we want information on something immediately--as in, no time to visit the library, late at night, etc. The computer is a tool around here and that's about it.

TV is the same. We watch things we're interested in... rarely any TV proper, but rather videos we check out from the library on this subject or that, particular shows we like (me, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, DS Magic School Bus







), and then a movie occasionally, either for me, DH and I, or the whole family, once or twice a month.

I'm not sure what to suggest mama. It sounds like you might have a bit of an uphill battle with regard to what your DS is experiencing via his dad and uncle. Perhaps someone with some experience with this can hand you some sage advice?

Good luck!
Em


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

The problem I see with this theory (beautifully explained by *Bellona*):

Quote:

The second slice you eat is going to be pretty good, but not quite as good as the first. So it might be 80 utils. Fast forward to the 4th slice and we're at about 20 utils. At some point, it's going to have a negative value for you - in other words you get more value from not eating another slice...
is that tv is designed to be addictive. Not just for kids but for adults, too. I don't think the utilities theory applies to addictive substances, for example cigarettes, alcohol, etc. and that's where I think the flaw lies in applying it to television viewing.


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## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

Agreeing with nonconformnmom here. For me TV is definitely addictive. The more I watch, the more I want. The only solution is severe limits or complete abstinence. I can forgo chocolate more easily, and that is saying something!

I agree that two weeks is a short trial time, but I would be concerned about the child who shows no self-regulating in this area. Besides possible inherent personality differences, the older child is developmentally more "ready" to watch and understand TV than the younger ones.

If you're interested in a little reading, there is an excellent book called _The Plug-In Drug_ about TV watching and addiction.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

My son (6 1/2) also goes through "binge" periods on the computer. While we don't limit it there is an expectation that its not a substitute for other activities that we do as a family. But then, staying home when we have to go to the store isn't an option because no one else is here. We also require that schoolwork be done before computer games are permitted.

For your plan, which is very similar to mine, to work, I think you might need to add a couple of elements. First, I suspect his role models need to realize what they are modeling and if that is OK. It will be impossible to teach your son limits and doing other things if your DH and brother are showing him the opposite. Are they willing to more actively model moderation? If not, why not?

Second, I would insist on one active sports-type activity. My son plays TBall and does gymnastics class, for a total of about 6 hours a week of hard physical exercise, plus daily sports and 3x/day recess at school. To me, that balances out a lot of computer/TV time both in terms of physical activity and social needs. My only fear about that much computer time on a regular basis is that it crowds out more "worthwhile" stuff that kids need. If you don't like organized sports or they aren't available to you, then you might have to get more creative than I did.

Third, I am sure that your econ. class made the point that any system that experiences change needs time to find its equilibrium.


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## UmmBnB (Mar 28, 2005)

I don't believe their is a right or wrong answer wrt TV and such.
We've never limited time on the computer or TV because we learned early on that ds is really good at keeping balance in his activities on his own. He will watch the first 10m of a show then go to his room, put together a costume and act out his favorite character from the show. Other times he'll sit and watch all day. Other times he'll not watch even 5m for days at a time. But I think that's just his personality and not because of anything we did or didn't do.

I go through phases myself. I enjoy watching TV and at times will spend weeks vegging each night. Then I move on for weeks to rarely turning it on. Guess ds takes after me.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

To those of you who commented on tv being addictive - what about the computer? What I've seen is that ds's tv time started out HIGH, like watching all day. It has gradually gone down, and today he watched one show. But computer time started out just being when there wasn't anything on tv. His computer time has skyrocketed though. I'm more worried about the computer than the tv, because that's what is taking up most of his time.

I did write that he is opting to stay home more. He did not go to playgroup this week (he's the oldest one there by far so it's always been optional, he's 6 and it is for preschoolers). But he does have other activities he participates in. He's doing wrestling right now twice a week - about 1 1/2 to 2 hours total. He also goes out to library at the school once a week and participates in chess club once a week for a couple of hours. We are trying to get into a homeschooling activity at the children's museum at his request. So I guess he does want to participate in alot of stuff. But in the house nothing holds his interest more than the computer games, and anything that isn't one of his activities that he's chosen (like shopping or visiting family) he would rather skip and use the computer.

We unschool, much of our learning is done either out of the house or by reading. He's back to wanting to read for an hour at night. Yesterday I did have him go to my mother's house with me which he wasn't really happy about (he wanted to stay home on the computer but no one was going to be home to stay with him), but once there he got into robotics/computers (like the inside) with mom's boyfriend.

I've had no luck with having dh and my brother monitor their computer time better. There are times when dh doesn't play hardly at all. It's just the months at a time when he plays ALOT that negatively effect ds.

So, ds does do some other stuff, but when he's playing the computer for so long, it doesn't seem like it. I just wonder if he'll always only want to do this when we're home or if he'll ever want to spend the day reading for hours on end or painting or playing outside. It has been pretty cold here, so that might account for him staying inside some, but last winter it didn't bother him at all.


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UmmBnB*
I don't believe their is a right or wrong answer wrt TV and such.
We've never limited time on the computer or TV because we learned early on that ds is really good at keeping balance in his activities on his own. He will watch the first 10m of a show then go to his room, put together a costume and act out his favorite character from the show. Other times he'll sit and watch all day. Other times he'll not watch even 5m for days at a time. But I think that's just his personality and not because of anything we did or didn't do.

I go through phases myself. I enjoy watching TV and at times will spend weeks vegging each night. Then I move on for weeks to rarely turning it on. Guess ds takes after me.


I do the same as you and think the samething, yes the T.V is on most of the day, but the amount he actually watches is different, he's back and forth with other things and goes in and out to play.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I personally am more addicted to the computer then the tv, I have been able to curb the tv addiction but once my daughter is asleep, I HAVE to go on the computer, for me that is more enertaining and I guess he is mainly playing games on the computer? That has to be more enertaining then tv where he can't participate, at least with games on the computer he is using his hand eye coordination and problem solving skills, but I do understand not wanting him to spend so much time on the computer.

One thing I thought about was that children around that age love repetition so maybe it is harder to limit oneself, even when the options aren't that plentiful. Around that age I had one video I watched over and over so much that my dad actually recorded over the movie and to this day I am resentful for it! I have a cousin that is a video game addict, the whole family has been tsking over it for a few years, his parents only solution I have seen so far is to involve him in other activities - he goes to guitar lessons, karate, boyscouts, he has a dirt bike and an atv - he just turned 9.
So like the previous poster said, maybe just providing activities that he would be interested in doing outside of the house.


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm a single mom and I love having the t.v on as in background noise my son will only really watch 3 shows and I will watch my shows which he will not even pay any attention too.. We go outside during the day like around 11 am to 2 then it's his naptime then he sleeps til 3 or 4 . We go outside again til 5 or 6


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

I love to spend time outside with them, but when it's cold and snowy, it's hard. In the warmer weather we spend literally all day outside. They dress before they come down stairs and immediatly go out back. I bring them breakfast out there, lunch and dinner. A couple of times a day we'll go on walks or head to the playground. We even do bedtime stories sitting in the grass. I hope that when the weather is warmer he'll continue that routine with us voluntarily instead of wanting the computer.

On the one hand, I have an urge to not let him use the computer because I feel like it's just not that healthy to use it so much. On the other hand, it's not like he's doing total junk. He plays an adult-type game. No violence, but alot of reasoning required. And he's really good at it. And it does seem to kick start his brain. When he gets off (usually because someone else needs to use it or because it's time to do something else, like eat







) he talks and talks and talks. He is working on formulating a plan in his head right now for converting everything to nuclear power. He says it will be cheaper and better for the environment. He also has an idea to start manufacturing air purifiers and selling them for slightly more than the cost. He thinks that everyone should be able to afford them. And he's considering starting a petition to change the laws regulating polutants. All of this stuff has come up after he's gotten off the computer...it's really weird.

But, when we're painting or cooking or working on some kind of project or craft, and he's not joining us, I can't help but wonder if he will ever regulate himself. I know it's been controlled for him longer than it hasn't, so I'm going to give it a little longer. I think that by me controlling it, I'm giving it more power over him. I don't want it to be such a huge thing for him that when it's just him and the computer with no adult to help regulate it that it becomes an obsession for him to the point where it interferes with school or work or his personal life.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

I think you have the right idea. I would have a hard time not limiting... My dh and I really love to watch tv and movies. My 2 and 4 year old like to as well. I have found that if I leave the tv off when we first wake up, we have better days, rather than turn it like we used to first thing in the am so I could wake up, make some tea, etc. Im sure since your child is older, this wouldnt matter, but that is what we do.

I, too, find that my ds watches a lot more some days than others. Some days we go all day without watching when we are out and about and busy all day. Other days he doesnt want to turn it off, and I find myself saying, this is the last movie and you need to turn it off.... or Only one movie and then the tv goes off.

I like the idea of not making limits, but I think in the cooler months, that is all he will do. We do have cable, but I try to let him watch only pbs and videos. He watches nickelodeon occasionally, but I dont like him to.

I guess I just wanted to say that I like the idea of self regulation and really agree with the whole "forbidden fruit" thing. I try to be real open to everything and not make candy, tv or video games "bad". We have a v smile and Im hoping it will fill that video game craving so we can avoid getting into the other kinds of games that all the kids I know have. We use the computer for games, but what he has are educational (jumpstart) and even many of our videos are too (the magic schoolbus)..

I try to at least make most of the time he spends with these things educational.....


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## Maman*Musique (May 13, 2005)

I think, as with most things, it depends on the kid.

We were tv free until our son was about 4.5. He is 5 now and seems not to care much for tv. Dad likes to watch cartoons and son isn't much interested







They sometimes watch science or astronomy related dvds together. Our little one on the other hand has been exposed for the past few months since we are no longer tv free. She seems more interested but that is waning quickly. They realize that it's pretty boring to sit in front of a box. They much prefer human interaction. Our son has always been like that. I wish he would play more by himself but that's another post...

I grew up tv free and don't have any interest in it. My brother went through a period of tv obsession and got over it but it took a few years if I remember correctly. He was in his teens though. He now enjoys movies a lot as does my father.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellona*
I love to spend time outside with them, but when it's cold and snowy, it's hard. In the warmer weather we spend literally all day outside. They dress before they come down stairs and immediatly go out back. I bring them breakfast out there, lunch and dinner. A couple of times a day we'll go on walks or head to the playground. We even do bedtime stories sitting in the grass. I hope that when the weather is warmer he'll continue that routine with us voluntarily instead of wanting the computer.

On the one hand, I have an urge to not let him use the computer because I feel like it's just not that healthy to use it so much. On the other hand, it's not like he's doing total junk. He plays an adult-type game. No violence, but alot of reasoning required. And he's really good at it. And it does seem to kick start his brain. When he gets off (usually because someone else needs to use it or because it's time to do something else, like eat







) he talks and talks and talks. He is working on formulating a plan in his head right now for converting everything to nuclear power. He says it will be cheaper and better for the environment. He also has an idea to start manufacturing air purifiers and selling them for slightly more than the cost. He thinks that everyone should be able to afford them. And he's considering starting a petition to change the laws regulating polutants. All of this stuff has come up after he's gotten off the computer...it's really weird.

But, when we're painting or cooking or working on some kind of project or craft, and he's not joining us, I can't help but wonder if he will ever regulate himself. I know it's been controlled for him longer than it hasn't, so I'm going to give it a little longer. I think that by me controlling it, I'm giving it more power over him. I don't want it to be such a huge thing for him that when it's just him and the computer with no adult to help regulate it that it becomes an obsession for him to the point where it interferes with school or work or his personal life.

TV is one thing, but if he is playing that kind of game, IMO it seems like that would be very good, he is using a lot of different skills and being interested in laws and ways to keep the environment clean, learning the way society works - I am impressed, that wouldn't bother me one bit as some other games that I see.
Hey if Bill Gates parents discouraged/limited his interest in computers where would he be today.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jrayn*
TV is one thing, but if he is playing that kind of game, IMO it seems like that would be very good, he is using a lot of different skills and being interested in laws and ways to keep the environment clean, learning the way society works - I am impressed, that wouldn't bother me one bit as some other games that I see.
Hey if Bill Gates parents discouraged/limited his interest in computers where would he be today.


The crazy thing about this is that the game doesn't have much to do with teaching him this stuff. He plays Ceasar most of the time. If you aren't familiar with it, it's a game where you have to set up a city and get people to move in, but it doesn't deal with laws and environmentalism. People need to want to move in because the agricultural neighborhoods aren't near the residential neighborhoods and the residential neighborhoods have schools and entertainment and pretty parks. You have to find a way to get water everywhere and food...

The other game he plays is Starcraft (there is some violence in this one, but he doesn't play those scenarios generally, and its not explicit). It's setting up a colony or base on another planet (you're either human, alien or robot) and meeting goals of harvesting minerals or other resources or getting your colony to a certain size and exploring.

I really don't know where he gets this stuff from, but he spews it when he gets off the computer


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellona*
I've read on here and other websites about not deciding for your kids how much tv is too much, and the utility theory really made sense to me. So for a couple of weeks now we haven't limited screen time (although we do limit content, but we don't have to say no, we just don't expose our kids to things that are too violent in nature or too mature). We have videos/dvds, but we don't have cable or satellite so we only have pbs. My youngest now asks and gets the tv turned on about 20 times a day, but he no longer watches tv. He used to park it anytime someone turned it on, but now he just walks away. My middle one doesn't watch too, too much...certainly no more than before. But my oldest (6yo) wants to watch all the time. That is if he's not using the computer. He plays his game for hours and hours every day. I've thought that if I don't say anything he'll get bored, but he's actually started playing more. He's stopped wanting to participate in other fun stuff like arts/crafts, reading (he used to LOVE to be read to), and he now often decides to stay home when we go do stuff like visit family, go to the store or playgroup....

He hasn't wanted to play outside either. If you started out limiting screen time, then decided not to, and have been successful (i.e. have children that do anything else) did you go through something like this? How long can I expect it to be? Does it mean it's just not going to work? Like I said, it's been about 2 weeks, and so far I've put no pressure on him at all to regulate and he's not self regulating at all.

My parents never limited our screen time (we only had TV growing up, no computer). I used to love cartoon theme songs and would run inside from playing to sing along, then run out again. Stayed for Scooby Doo though







Two of my sisters were basically the same, they pretty much ignored the tv. My youngest sister was the opposite, she could easily lay on the couch all day and watch anything. I think it just depends on the kid's personality.

Oh, and we don't limit screen time. Ds (18 months) LOVES The Simpsons but really only asks to watch maybe one morning a week.

~Nay


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

This is something I've been struggling with lately too. My daughter (6) would literally watch movies all day (we don't have tv) if she could. My son (4) gets bored with it after a while, but will still sit there watching with her, or will sometimes get up and turn it off, which of course, doesn't go over well at all with dd.








We used to limit it, and have been trying lately to let them decide on their own, but this past month they've had a revolving door of illnesses and it's been cold, etc, so much of our at home time has been spent with movies. They do get a lot out of them, and she likes to watch the 'making of' parts of the movie too, but it definately seems addictive and can be such a time-robber. They play creatively quite a bit, but since there has been so much movie watching, I find she gets bored more easily and will ask to watch if there's a lull in activity.
Of course, most of their watching happens when I'm involved with something or other on the computer







:


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## Bartock (Feb 2, 2006)

Just to follow up a bit on this, here is my opinion hope no one disagree's too much with me. Why does it really matter anyway, these kids are young and as long as they are not watching crapy, violent shows, movies and games let them. I don't mean let them sit around ALL day and do that, but that's just being a kid in my opinon, My mom never let me watch T.V and I hated that so much. It seems like most of the kids do other things as well not always watching the T.V. I just think that once they start school they won't be doing that kind of stuff as much anymore, it's kinda like there home free time will be over, let them enjoy it now. That's how I feel, sorry if i offended anyone, not my intention LOL.


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

I think a lot of us here are HS'ing, so tv is a big issue -- how it fits into a kid's life who has a lot of access to it.
I think it really depends a lot on the kid -- some are not that interested, or can self-regulate, others have more of a struggle with it.
Right now, as we come out of a month long string of every illness on the planet, it seems,







: , it's a bit of an issue. Hopefully, as the weather changes they'll forget all about it, right??


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## MOM2ANSLEY (May 19, 2003)

I keep the TV on almost all day for background noise....I don't knw why but radio is not the same....I watch very little in daytime, dd watches it on and off as she breezes in and out of the room, DH however will stand in front of it and watch anything thats on, its like it hypnotizes him. So maybe it's just different for everyone


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## Elastagirl (May 24, 2005)

Wow.
I didn't know that anyone around here DIDN'T limit screen/TV time. I was feeling like quite the rebel for being someone who _doesn't_ limit!

Like several of the posters here, our TV is on most of the day for background noise. Ds will stop to watch favorite shows or parts of shows, but it usually ends up with him acting out part of the show, like running around the house and pretending to be a superhero, or wanting to play dress-up and be a pirate or "Princess Fiona" from Shrek (he wears a long, green t-shirt of mine and my high-heeled shoes!) We do limit WHAT he watches (Noggin or PBS, select movies we like) but not how much.

I do worry sometimes that he knows SO many characters from TV...that people might look at us funny when he tells stories involving Bob the Builder and Dora and Angelina Ballerina all going on an adventure together...but I also believe that his telling creative stories is a sign that he's not completely passive when watching TV! Anyway, when Dh and I are watching CNN, Ds would rather play with his trains or puzzles. I feel we have a good balance right now.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

ilovemy2ds - we are homeschooling, so there's no relief when we send them to school










I can't believe how many people keep the tv on for background noise! My house doesn't need background noise...come on over and you'll see what I mean







. I don't like having the tv on during the day because with my birds squeaking, and my cat's following me around meowing cause they're starving to death (they hate any food I give them and will only eat it as a last resort), and the kids, and the washer/dryer.....well, you get the picture.

We haven't had the tv on in a couple of days. Not exactly true - the baby has an obsession with having things turned on and off, so when he asks I comply, but we don't watch it - just flick it on and off









The computer on the other hand...I think the mouse is going to wear a hole right through the desk from being used so much! We had a big problem because I was fine with the concept of once someone is on the computer, they can use it until they're done. But ds would never be done. We'd end up telling him we needed to use it and asking him to get off and he and dd would be asking "are ya done yet?" every two seconds when someone else used it. So we had a family meeting and came up with a solution together. When one of us gets on the computer we have to set the timer for 30 minutes. We can use it without being harrassed for that length of time. However, if someone else wants to use the computer, after the timer goes off, we get right off and let them have it. But as long as there is no line, there is no limit.

Its working pretty well. Everyone now gets a turn on the computer, but he still plays alot. I think that he's actually increased the amount of time playing/watching because dh has started playing with him and he really enjoys this time with his dad. I'd like them to do something more personal when they hang out than sit in front of the computer discussing strategy, but dh doesn't really have any other hobbies that ds can be included in. But at least they're spending time







.


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## jrayn (Jul 6, 2005)

I find the tv too messy of a noise for a background noise and prefer silence (besides sounds of child(ren) at play or me and my dd talking together, but if I do have a craving for background noise I put on some light music. I guess some people have a higher tolerance for noise, my dp loves to play video games and he likes it to be loud, I am always making him turn it DOWN.


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## minasmom (Jul 14, 2004)

I'm subcribing to this thread, I think this is something we are going to try with dd [almost 2!]. I used to limit her a lot with the TV and it became a game of asking ALL DAY until i caved. Mostly she watched dora and little bear, but DH left the tv on this morning and she woke up to pbs kids. I agree that my saying no turned it into a forbidden fruit with her, she LOVES to watch, but then she gets bored and plays so I think this can work. I hate restricting things from her, unless its harmfull of course. I"m going to try it and see how it goes


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

That was one expiriment that could have gone better. Everything ended up going to you-know-where in a you-know-what.

Ds's computer time did not decrease. A while ago I posted about the family meeting we had to discuss rules of use for the computer to make sure that everyone got their turns and that went good for a while. Ds was happy, I was happy (although still a little concerned about the amout of time he was taking) and everyone else was happy.

Then, it got to a point that whenever anyone else wanted a turn, whether ds had been on there for 30 minutes or way longer he was like









He just had a REALLY bad attitude. He'd get off and slump around and sigh more and more dramatically until someone finally asked what was wrong and then he'd complain about how there was NOTHING to do. It was like having a teenager, the whole "my life is over, whoa is me, I think I just might die" attitude. He was crabby, and I didn't see him smile for days...unless it was while he was staring at the computer screen.

I wasn't happy with the way things were, but wasn't ready to change it until I had some ideas about what would work better for everyone involved. Then dh came and told me that something HAD to change cause he was just about ready to take a hammer to that dang cd.

He and I discussed it on the sly, and decided that although what we felt most comfortable with was limiting computer time and giving ds a list of responsibilities since he wasn't helping out anymore (or interacting with us in anyway), we decided we would settle for just him helping out and see how it went.

I went to talk to ds and explained the situation that we had a problem with. I told him that dh and I would like to see him help out a little more and perhaps we could discuss what jobs he was most willing to take on as his own. HE WENT CRAZY.

Now, granted, my kids don't tend to go crazy like some kids go crazy, but it was still crazy. He threw himself at his bed and hit his pillow and called me a "stupid piece of salad dressing" (there are worse things that a six year old could come up with







).

I left him in his room with the instructions that when he was ready to talk to me in a polite and pleasant manner he could come and find me. Finally he did. I explained that we would like for him to work with us to find a solution, but ultimately if he refused, dh and I would have to do it on our own because things simply weren't working out for the rest of us.

Let's just say he wasn't cooperative.

So he didn't play for the rest of the afternoon. The next day he couldn't play cause we had some family stuff going on and required him to participate, at least minimally. Since then we've been limiting his time. It's spread over to the tv as well cause when he's not playing the computer he wants to either play playstation games or watch tv, so tv usage has spiked.

I don't want to have a powerstruggle in this area, but it appears that one simply can't be avoided.









Since though, his attitude has improved. He's still in a bad mood complaining about nothing to do a whole lot, but not all the time like he was before. Every day it seems to be less.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think it's great that you recognized that what you were trying wasn't going to work with your family.

Have you worked with "nothing to do"? That seems like something concrete that you could attack. I read somewhere that kids that are very into TV/video/computer really do forget to how to play and need some help during the adjustment period. I think the suggestions were extra outings, well stocked craft supplies and maybe a new toy or two during this period.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

I thought that tomorrow, or as soon as a get a chance I might make a 'nothing to do' box with activities written down on pieces of paper and have anyone with nothing to do choose one. Some might be helpful things (that the kids like to do like sweeping the porch or cleaning the car), some might be silly (find a song you like and dance to it) and some might be playing ideas. I need to go through their toys again and try and dig out some 'new' ones (aka - ones that have been on the bottom for a while







) I also need to reorganize our craft stuff and I'm working on building our supply up to include more.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

I'm sorry it hasn't worked for you. As a kid, I was allowed to watch TV whenever I wanted, and spent at LEAST 4 hours a day watching TV/ playing Atari/ using the computer (and our TI994a computer was decidedly less tempting than what's available now!). And I WAS in school, so it was a huge part of my at-home time. I think some kids really will gravitate toward watching a lot, and if that doesn't jive with your values, limits are necessary.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

srain - it isn't necessarily the time I have a problem with. Well, that issue is secondary. The problem I have is with his whole demeanor when it's time for someone else to use the computer. His sister and dad like to play games, and his dad and I both take classes and need it for school so sometimes we just have to get him off to use it. It's not often, but when we do, he's in such a bad, bad mood. Did you have this problem growing up?


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## travelinmom (Feb 19, 2006)

We don't limit tv but I don't let them use my computer too much. Mostly because they don't treat it with respect and it's an expensive piece of equipment that we can't afford to replace. After they broke off the nuber five we started limiting computer time to when an adult was playing with them.

But before we started limiting we didn't have a problem with them playing on it all the time. Or tv for that matter. I think it is the "I don't have anything else to do" thing. Here I have a whole shelf with different types of papers, glue, scissors, tape, colors, paint, felt, stickers. It's all arts and craftsy stuff. And they are forever making a mess with little pieces of paper all over the house. They seem to end up stick to the bottom of my socks.

And now that the weather is nice they play outside alot. They would rather play outside than come in and watch tv or play computer.

I understand about the attitude though. I noticed that there were certain games that my dd would get frustrated on and take it out at everyone else. Or if one of her brothers interupted her and she messed up she'd yell at them. So I just took those games away. Most of what we have on the computer now is educational games. And she gets on Neopets to play other games, just for fun.


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## bellona (Feb 17, 2006)

travelinmom - I really don't think it's a matter of nothing else to do with my ds. We have a nice box of dress up stuff, loads of board games, blocks (mega blocks, legos, nice wooden blocks), musical instruments, and loads of other toys. We have a big cabinet full of art stuff - markers, crayons, colored pencils, pastels, scissors, tape, glue, many kinds of paper, lace, ribbon, paint, stencils, window markers...the list goes on and on. The other kids can always find something fun to do. We're always doing stuff like writting letters to family members or finger painting or making giant tents that take up a whole room. Currently my 4yo dd is working on hand sewing a pillow.

All of this stuff is stuff that he liked before this whole ordeal. He never complained of having nothing to do before. The weather has started to get nice and we've been going out everyday, but he doesn't join us even though he used to LIVE outside. He hasn't wanted to go running yet this summer (something he did almost every day last summer and the summer before)...or rather he did ask to once, but when I was ready he said he'd rather stay home and play the game.

Most of what we have is educational games, even the one he's addicted to requires really good planning, strategy and logic. Maybe I just don't understand it cause I'm not a big game person.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I get the attitude part.

IMO for some people the effects of media are addictive. When you try to get them to unplug for any reason it's like taking someone off a drug, and then they can only think about getting their fix again. They are cranky, irritable, resistant, sulky and withdrawn. Pretty much, a drug reaction IMO. I saw ds act just like this, and I see it in myself, with tv for me, and with interactive games for ds. We do okay if we make it a special intentional choice, but as part of the fabric of the home, media is a huge energy consumer, that leaves us cranky and frazzled.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellona*
srain - it isn't necessarily the time I have a problem with. Well, that issue is secondary. The problem I have is with his whole demeanor when it's time for someone else to use the computer. ...... Did you have this problem growing up?

I don't think it was a real issue when I was growing up; we had two TVs and our computer was basically for everyone's recreation, so my dad never needed to ask me to get off it that I can recall. How much memory do the games he plays require? If it's not a lot, and you really don't care about how long he's spending on it, you can probably get a three-year-old used computer for free if you ask around. I, personally, don't think little kids should be spending hours per day in front of a screen, but if you do, then you can probably solve the "sharing" problem.


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## frenchie (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellona*
I know the link is somewhere in this forum in the not too distant past, but this site is loading really slowly for me right now, so here's a summary:

It's basic economics. Let's say you like pizza alot. It's your favorite food in the world. The first slice you eat today is going to have a certain value for you - in my class they called the denomination of this value utils







. So the first slice might be so good it's 100 utils. The second slice you eat is going to be pretty good, but not quite as good as the first. So it might be 80 utils. Fast forward to the 4th slice and we're at about 20 utils. At some point, it's going to have a negative value for you - in other words you get more value from not eating another slice...you get to not throw up. Value/utils = happiness.

With tv, if they have been restricted in the past, your kids assign a really high value to watching it in many cases. But when they are allowed an unlimited amount of tv, eventually it stops giving them so much pleasure and there are other things they'd rather do.

HTH

I don't knwo that I buy into this...but theoretically it makes sense.


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