# Odd request from landlord



## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

We live in a largish apartment building with about 32 apartments. A notice was just put up saying that during the winter months we *have* to keep our windows closed and all our heaters at MIN 20C. (I guess that's 68F).

For some reason this just bothers me. What if I'm hot? What if I want fresh air? DH smokes







: so sometimes I open our balcony door to air out. Also, I never have the heater on in our bedroom because 1) our bed is in front of it and 2) it dries the air so it's hard on the throat when sleeping.

We have electric heaters.

What's the deal with this? Can you think of any possible explanation? I'd just ask the LL but they're impossible to reach. It's the first time it was ever mentioned and this is my 5th winter here.







:


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## TayTaysMama (Oct 16, 2007)

Do they pay for the heating or do you?

I think it is a weird request either way but if they pay then they are probably just trying save some money. Or maybe they are worried about freezing pipes?

Like I said, I think it is weird and really makes no sense to me!







:


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

We pay for our own heat. I can understand the issue of freezing pipes, but the situation would have to be quite severe for that to happen. I can go for a long time without turning my heat on because the building insulates us and we're sheltered from the wind...


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Maybe they had a problem last year w/ one unit and pipes breaking or something so they felt the need to make rules?


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## Erinz (Mar 1, 2006)

Maybe they are trying to save costs on some units that they do pay the heating for? Because if the entire building is being kept warm then they can turn the thermostat down on the units that are vacant/they pay for?


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## Erinz (Mar 1, 2006)

I meant to say, if it were me I would disregard it! (I don't rent though)


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

When I was a kid, we lived in an apartment complex for a while, and the woman upstairs would turn her heat down. The insulation between upstairs and downstairs units wasn't great. Our heat would rise up into her apartment, and we'd be cold, but paying for heat she was enjoying.


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## reducereuserecycle (Jan 16, 2007)

i would ignore the request unless you are personally approached by the landlord and then, in that case, you could discuss the issues


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

My guess is they are telling you "the rules" so if a pipe freezes later they can blame you.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Erinz* 
Maybe they are trying to save costs on some units that they do pay the heating for? Because if the entire building is being kept warm then they can turn the thermostat down on the units that are vacant/they pay for?

That could be it. There are a bunch of empty apartments this year. Hmmm.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SleeplessMommy* 
My guess is they are telling you "the rules" so if a pipe freezes later they can blame you.

Probably that too.

This building is owned by a cheap, unethical, UAV of a company.

I'm going to ignore it.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

ours has us do similar, no rule on windows though. But ours say its because of the pipes freezing, and after seeing upstairs's pipes burst last year, i do it willingly.


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## ladyslipper (Apr 21, 2006)

I don't think this is an odd request especially if the landlord pays for heating. With the price of oil (assuming it's oil powered) it's probaly better the tenants watch their use of heat, versus a higher rent to compensate for heat prices.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ladyslipper* 
I don't think this is an odd request especially if the landlord pays for heating. With the price of oil (assuming it's oil powered) it's probaly better the tenants watch their use of heat, versus a higher rent to compensate for heat prices.

The LL is asknig them to keep it at 68 MIN, which means don't let it get colder than 68F. Basically if 68 is too hot for you, too bad....and the tenants pay for their own heat.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
The LL is asknig them to keep it at 68 MIN, which means don't let it get colder than 68F. Basically if 68 is too hot for you, too bad....and the tenants pay for their own heat.











And they are hydro-electric baseboard heaters.


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## gentlemango (Jun 17, 2006)

Huh? He's telling you that you have to spend $$$ keeping your apartment unreasonably hot? I don't think so. He can pay to keep the heat on in the unoccupied apartments or he can offer to subsidize your energy bills.


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## Pepperdove (Apr 13, 2007)

ummm, 68f is unreasonably hot?

it's pipes. frozenpipes destroy everything, b/c they burst. bad mess.

als, though, i would guess *you* aren't who this is aimed at. the tenant who opens windows and cranks theheat to 85 might be.


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## gentlemango (Jun 17, 2006)

Heck, I don't think it's unreasonably hot. I'd love to skip through life at 68 degrees! But we can't afford the heating oil so we bundle up.

If I were renting and paying for my own utilities, I would be pretty pissed if my landlord told me that I HAD to keep my heat at 68 or higher. The usual standard minimum temp to keep pipes from freezing with a buffer zone for power outages is 50. Lots of people here keep their houses at 40 if they go away for the winter, but plumbers recommend 50 just in case. It sounds like this guy wants the tenants to pay to keep the unrented apartments warm.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Its a common practice rule at alot of apartment complexes to ask them to be at 68 min. If you have it lower, and a pipe does happen to burst or just freeze, they can refuse to pay for the repairs and foot you with the bill, if you have renters insurance, they can refuse to pay out since you went against the complexes requests and warning.

if your apt is very insulated and you dont need to run the heat that much anyway, i dont see the problem. Ours is very insulated, and we have our heat set at 72, it kicks on maybe once a day if that. and if we had it set at 68 it would only kick on if the weather suddenly dropped fast.


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## ladyslipper (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moondiapers* 
The LL is asknig them to keep it at 68 MIN, which means don't let it get colder than 68F. Basically if 68 is too hot for you, too bad....and the tenants pay for their own heat.

oops read that wrong, that does make it unusual and unreasonable to me then, especially if the tenants pay for the heat!


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## starry_mama (May 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepperdove* 
ummm, 68f is unreasonably hot?

I think it is! I keep my heat at 60 degrees, MAYBE 62, and if DH raises it AT ALL, I sweat my butt off.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starry_mama* 
I think it is! I keep my heat at 60 degrees, MAYBE 62, and if DH raises it AT ALL, I sweat my butt off.

It obviously does not get as cold where you live as it does here! Setting the heat to 60 (which is 15 Celsius) would be MIGHTY cold inside a house in the middle of winter!! Our low tonight is -25 C (so -13F) and during the day tomorrow it's supposed to be something like -38 C with the windchill (-36.5 F).

So, in general, in Canada, keeping the thermostat at 20 C is NOT unreasonable. But it would depend on where the OP lives. Also, do they mean keep the temp in your house at 20? or keep your thermostat set to 20? When I lived in an apartment, they kept the hallway so darn hot, that if you kept your thermostat at 20, your apartment was more like 25, you were sweating buckets. You had to set it to around 14 if you wanted to keep the temp at 20.

ETA: forgot to say though, they really should have stated their reasoning. My guess is frozen baseboard heaters. People leave their windows open, forget them open when they leave, and come back to frozen heaters or the pipe has burst in the heater. I'd suspect that opening your window every now and then for fresh air is going to be just fine. They are just giving a blanket "no open windows" warning for the forgetful or unknowing people. I'd also think that if 20 is a little toasty for you and you prefer, let's say 19, that it wouldn't be an issue.


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## starry_mama (May 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
It obviously does not get as cold where you live as it does here! Setting the heat to 60 (which is 15 Celsius) would be MIGHTY cold inside a house in the middle of winter!! Our low tonight is -25 C (so -13F) and during the day tomorrow it's supposed to be something like -38 C with the windchill (-36.5 F).

So, in general, in Canada, keeping the thermostat at 20 C is NOT unreasonable. But it would depend on where the OP lives. Also, do they mean keep the temp in your house at 20? or keep your thermostat set to 20? When I lived in an apartment, they kept the hallway so darn hot, that if you kept your thermostat at 20, your apartment was more like 25, you were sweating buckets. You had to set it to around 14 if you wanted to keep the temp at 20.

Well, I live in NH and grew up in northern VT about 5 seconds from the border of Canada. I think it has more to do with personal preference.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starry_mama* 
Well, I live in NH and grew up in northern VT about 5 seconds from the border of Canada. I think it has more to do with personal preference.

Different areas of Canada have different temps. The Canadian prairies are insanely cold, very different from what the weather in Ontario and Quebec is like (I think you were close to there?). I have never known anyone living in the prairies to keep their thermostat set to 15 for daily use in the winter.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
Different areas of Canada have different temps. The Canadian prairies are insanely cold, very different from what the weather in Ontario and Quebec is like I think you were close to there?). I have never known anyone living in the prairies to keep their thermostat set to 15 for daily use in the winter.

Thermostat setting has little to do with outside temp.

I mean, it *does* obviously. But setting it at 60F/15c is the same deal *inside* the house whether it is -40/-40 outside or much warmer. It just means that inside the house the furnace will work to maintain 15C degrees - or as close to that as possible. the outside temp is irrelevant, except that it determines how fast the house will cool and how often the furnace has to fire.

I grew up in upper MI, I live in upper NY, and I know people from Alberta and even Alaska. Many of them turn their heat down to 60/15 overnight in the winter, and many turn it that low when they leave the house all day.

As long as the thermostat is working properly, leaving it at 15 just means the inside of the house will be 15 when you come back. Your pipes won't freeze. Unless they all run up the outside wall of your house hundreds of feet from the nearest heating vent.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

It will vary by where you live, but in Ontario, he can't tell you to do that.

There is a law here that a landlord must heat his units at least 20 degrees, but that is if the landlord is controlling/paying the heat and to prevent slum lords from freezing people out. If you pay/control your heat then he can't tell you what to do. He also can't tell you not to open your windows.

The hottest we set our thermostat is 17. 20 or more makes me die of sweat.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Thermostat setting has little to do with outside temp.

I mean, it *does* obviously. But setting it at 60F/15c is the same deal *inside* the house whether it is -40/-40 outside or much warmer. It just means that inside the house the furnace will work to maintain 15C degrees - or as close to that as possible. the outside temp is irrelevant, except that it determines how fast the house will cool and how often the furnace has to fire.

I grew up in upper MI, I live in upper NY, and I know people from Alberta and even Alaska. Many of them turn their heat down to 60/15 overnight in the winter, and many turn it that low when they leave the house all day.

As long as the thermostat is working properly, leaving it at 15 just means the inside of the house will be 15 when you come back. Your pipes won't freeze. Unless they all run up the outside wall of your house hundreds of feet from the nearest heating vent.

I did say 15 for "daily use" which was to imply when you were actually inside your home and awake. Your temperature while you are away at work, doesn't affect you (unless you set it so low that you freeze your pipes). Your temp at night is also different, everyone I know sets it lower at night so they don't boil. Also, I don't recall saying that your pipes would freeze if you set your thermostat to 15?

No matter though, your temp inside your house is PERCEIVED differently, depending on the outside temp. 15 inside a house in the summer does NOT feel the same as 15 inside the house in the winter when it is -40 outside. Plus, it also depends on the insulation in your house. If your house is letting out a ton of heat, you often have to keep it warmer.

So, outside temp is relevant to your inside temp due to how temperature is perceived. It might also have to do with how drastic the temperature changes are in some places. We had 10 C one day and the next was -25 C, shocking when you step outside and didn't check the weather first.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 

ETA: forgot to say though, they really should have stated their reasoning. My guess is frozen baseboard heaters. People leave their windows open, forget them open when they leave, and come back to frozen heaters or the pipe has burst in the heater. I'd suspect that opening your window every now and then for fresh air is going to be just fine. They are just giving a blanket "no open windows" warning for the forgetful or unknowing people. I'd also think that if 20 is a little toasty for you and you prefer, let's say 19, that it wouldn't be an issue.

There are no pipes in the heater... it's not heated with hot water, it heats with elements. Here's an example of an electric baseboard heater. The kitchen/bathroom pipes are ALL located towards the middle of the building. There aren't ANY in the outside walls... or within 10 feet of the outside walls.

It just bugs me because it's ONE more way that they are telling us how to live. Rules upon rules. I can't wait to get out of this apartment and buy a house.

ETA: I don't know if others are familiar with electric heat, but when the temp goes below the thermostat setting, the heater comes on to make it warmer (duh) But if you have it at a higher setting, it comes on more often and it's a lot of DRY heat. It's not the only factor, but already my skin is super dry this winter. Also when you're breathing in the dry air at night while you're sleeping it can give you a sore throat. Therefore, I prefer to keep the heat at a lower setting so it's not coming on as often.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
The hottest we set our thermostat is 17. 20 or more makes me die of sweat.

See, depends where you live. Saskatchewan and Manitoba are crazy cold, and I've never personally known anyone to keep their thermostat that low in winter (when they are home and awake). I guess they could exist though.









Maybe we need a poll of what province people live in and what they set their thermostat to when they are home.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

60 degrees??????? I die of cold if our house is less than 78, I prefer 80 for comfort (and that is with a sweater/socks/slippers on).


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
There are no pipes in the heater... it's not heated with hot water, it heats with elements. Here's an example of an electric baseboard heater. The kitchen/bathroom pipes are ALL located towards the middle of the building. There aren't ANY in the outside walls... or within 10 feet of the outside walls.

It just bugs me because it's ONE more way that they are telling us how to live. Rules upon rules. I can't wait to get out of this apartment and buy a house.

I don't need a pic, I understand what electric means.







I misunderstood and when you said baseboard heater, I thought you meant the common baseboard heaters that have water pipes running through them. I missed where you said they were electric.

ETA: and this makes it seem like your landlord just wants to be controlling. I'd ask for an explanation, even if you have to ask via mail. Also do you have a rentalsman or some sort of tenant protection agency in your city? You could check with them to see if you have to follow the rule and what happens if you don't.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
See, depends where you live. Saskatchewan and Manitoba are crazy cold, and I've never personally known anyone to keep their thermostat that low in winter (when they are home and awake). I guess they could exist though.









Maybe we need a poll of what province people live in and what they set their thermostat to when they are home.









Yeah I could never deal with the cold in some other provinces.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
60 degrees??????? I die of cold if our house is less than 78, I prefer 80 for comfort (and that is with a sweater/socks/slippers on).

OH my god. I would die at your house.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
60 degrees??????? I die of cold if our house is less than 78, I prefer 80 for comfort (and that is with a sweater/socks/slippers on).

Wow, that is toasty! My SIL likes her place warm too, not quite that warm, but really close. And at night she bundles up in pajamas, socks and an electric blanket and does NOT turn the heat down. Her kids sleep in just their undies and a sheet, else they would roast. I can't stay at her house anymore because I wake up in the middle of the night all dehydrated and sweating buckets.









Yup, obviously personal preference must be taken into account as well (as someone else mentioned).


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Yeah I could never deal with the cold in some other provinces.

Every winter I always mumble "why the heck do I live in this country".


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yep me too, like lats night at the park in the freezing weather to see the cpr holiday train.


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## Rhiannon Feimorgan (Aug 26, 2005)

TG, I live in Ft St James BC. And before you thing BC=warm i'll remind you that this is in the northern interior and gets every bit as cold as the prairies. I used to live in Grand Prairie Alberta and I spend Christmasses in Winnipeg with my mother from time to time so I'm no stranger to -40 or better. Currently it's -19 outside which is warmer than the -28 we had yesterday. My thermostat is currently set at 16 and I'm quite comfortable.

Diferant people have diferant preferances. It's not about what province you live in.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rhiannon Feimorgan* 
Diferant people have diferant preferances. It's not about what province you live in.

I used different provinces to differentiate between the different temperatures as the prairies are generally an example of where it gets bitter cold for extended periods. The cold is also VERY dry. Lots of nosebleed and dry eyes in the prairies in the winter.







I said that outside temperature affects how you perceive temperatures, I did not say that it doesn't get cold elsewhere.







And I also agreed that personal preference is a factor as well.

16 would definitely be too cool for me in the winter. I wonder if humidity has anything to do with it? I notice your humidity is 70%, whereas it is 66% here today. Anyone know how a 4% difference in humidity affects the temp? (or how you perceive the temp) Off to Google!


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Okay, I found this on humidity

Quote:

Low humidity causes static electricity, dry skin and hair, and itching and chapping. Mucous membranes in nose and throat dry out, increasing your discomfort and susceptibility to colds and respiratory illness. *With low humidity levels, body moisture evaporates so quickly that you feel chilled even at higher thermostat settings.*
So, I'm thinking that perhaps humidity has more to do with it than I first thought. Like I said, it's VERY dry here, much drier than Alberta (I've lived in Alberta). So the SK/MB folk would feel colder than other provinces with higher humidity and thus need to keep the thermostat higher.

I think no person should have to live in Saskatchewan or Manitoba in winter. Everyone there should be moved to Jamaica for the winter months.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

you could run a cool mist humidifier to counteract the dry air.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
you could run a cool mist humidifier to counteract the dry air.

We tried it last year with a small one running in our bedroom, only at night (from about midnight). I'd wake up at 6 and it was already bone dry and that was on the low setting. I was scared I was going to cause a fire running it dry so we quit using it. We obviously need to buy a bigger one, and more than one!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
Okay, I found this on humidity
So, I'm thinking that perhaps humidity has more to do with it than I first thought. Like I said, it's VERY dry here, much drier than Alberta (I've lived in Alberta). So the SK/MB folk would feel colder than other provinces with higher humidity and thus need to keep the thermostat higher.

I think no person should have to live in Saskatchewan or Manitoba in winter. Everyone there should be moved to Jamaica for the winter months.









That makes sense. It is very humid here. We have a hard time controlling the humidity in our house.

It also works in the reverse for hot temps. It feels so much hotter here because the humidity is so damn high.


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## Garden~Lover (Aug 13, 2007)

60 degrees??????? I die of cold if our house is less than 78, I prefer 80 for comfort (and that is with a sweater/socks/slippers on).>>>>>>>>

I wish I could turn the heat up. Ours hasnt left 62 F . If I turned it up, I would have to get 2 more jobs to pay for the oil.







:

as for the OP I am so glad we dont rent anymore. I would ask him what the reasoning is behind the new rules.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I live with my FIL, who likes the temperature kept at 22C. (Admittedly, he chooses to wear shorts and t-shirts all year round- long story.) Left to my own devices, it would be at about 18C.
Is your local council making any efforts towards reducing carbon emissions and electricity usage? If so, I'd send them a copy of the notice and ask for advice.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

There is no way I would keep my house at 68 degrees. That is insanely hot.
I keep mine around 60 and the pipes are not remotely in danger of freezing.


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## mightymoo (Dec 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
There are no pipes in the heater... it's not heated with hot water, it heats with elements. Here's an example of an electric baseboard heater. The kitchen/bathroom pipes are ALL located towards the middle of the building. There aren't ANY in the outside walls... or within 10 feet of the outside walls.

It just bugs me because it's ONE more way that they are telling us how to live. Rules upon rules. I can't wait to get out of this apartment and buy a house.

ETA: I don't know if others are familiar with electric heat, but when the temp goes below the thermostat setting, the heater comes on to make it warmer (duh) But if you have it at a higher setting, it comes on more often and it's a lot of DRY heat. It's not the only factor, but already my skin is super dry this winter. Also when you're breathing in the dry air at night while you're sleeping it can give you a sore throat. Therefore, I prefer to keep the heat at a lower setting so it's not coming on as often.

Most likely they are concerned about the water pipes then. You heat the inside of your rooms to a certain temperature, its going to be colder below the sink and inside the walls, so the inside has to be warm enough to make sure that inside the walls is warm enough, especially exterior walls. You could just set your heat lower and do things like keep the cabinet door below the sinks open.

Our heat, which is forced hot air is also very dry. I keep a huge evaporative humidifier running most of the winter to help with that.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
There is no way I would keep my house at 68 degrees. That is insanely hot.
I keep mine around 60 and the pipes are not remotely in danger of freezing.

We keep our heat at 60F during the day too.

I can understand not wanting people to leave windows open in winter and having the heat turned on when outside temps are below freezing but I don't understand telling people to keep the heat they pay for at 68 all the time. I could understand 60 as a minimum rule.

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/qa/qafreezingpipes.html


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
60 degrees??????? I die of cold if our house is less than 78, I prefer 80 for comfort (and that is with a sweater/socks/slippers on).

Same here! DH turns it down to 74, and I freeze.


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## Rhiannon Feimorgan (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
Okay, I found this on humidity
So, I'm thinking that perhaps humidity has more to do with it than I first thought. Like I said, it's VERY dry here, much drier than Alberta (I've lived in Alberta). So the SK/MB folk would feel colder than other provinces with higher humidity and thus need to keep the thermostat higher.

I think no person should have to live in Saskatchewan or Manitoba in winter. Everyone there should be moved to Jamaica for the winter months.









That's an interesting point with the humidity. I've never thought of that. I also have lot's of house plants and am often cooking something steamy in my crock pot which would further incresase the indor moisture leavel.

Good point.

I just get tired of prairie people who automaticly assume it isn't cold in BC. Last winter we had a week of hovering around -50. If you pee outside, it's frozen before it hits the gound in that weather!


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rhiannon Feimorgan* 
That's an interesting point with the humidity. I've never thought of that. I also have lot's of house plants and am often cooking something steamy in my crock pot which would further incresase the indor moisture leavel.

Good point.

I just get tired of prairie people who automaticly assume it isn't cold in BC. Last winter we had a week of hovering around -50. If you pee outside, it's frozen before it hits the gound in that weather!

Heh-heh, I guess we get used to all the people who complain about how cold it is in the winter and then show up here and say "WOW, it REALLY is much colder here!", like we were making it up all along.









I can so relate to that horrid cold weather where any exposed skin freezes in 30 seconds, so you and I can commiserate together when we get that brutal cold in January!

And yum, always something steamy in the crockpot? Your house sounds much better than mine.


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## MommyErin (Jul 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rhiannon Feimorgan* 
That's an interesting point with the humidity. I've never thought of that. I also have lot's of house plants and am often cooking something steamy in my crock pot which would further incresase the indor moisture leavel.

My thermostat's on 65 during the day which I think is *cold* (I'm jealous of the PP who keeps her's at 78!) even with a camisole, a short sleeved shirt, a long sleeved shirt and a sweater on! But I notice a big difference in my comfort level when I increase the humidity. We have a humidifier on our furnace and right now it's set to 45%, which is the highest setting.

Further, it's hotter than blue blazes here in the summer because the humidity is typically 89% on a *good* day and usually in the 90% range through July and August.

Slant Fin makes a really nice room humidifier if I'm not mistaken ...


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## Leta (Dec 6, 2006)

Heather, FWIW, in MI what your landlord has done is illegal.


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm not in Canada, just chiming in on the temp issue.

I have lived in New England, and now I live in Georgia. I have never been able to stand heat or high humidity. I am uncomfortably hot if the temperature is over 70, unless the humidity is low. I am most comfortable at 60-65, but my husband freezes at anything below 78.

My parents in New England have always kept their thermostat at 50-54 depending on the humidity.

At 50-54 degrees at home people put on sweatshirts. Here they put on parkas, gloves, hats, and scarfs. It is more humid here in Georgia than in New England. People look at me like I'm insane when I go out in a pair of jeans, short sleeve shirt, and a light fleece/windbreaker if it's windy. It really is just personal preference.


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## ILuvMyBaby (Feb 24, 2004)

maybe just ask ?


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ILuvMyBaby* 
maybe just ask ?

I only see them on the first of each month. They put up notices so they don't have to talk to people. It's not worth calling head office for an answer. I'm just going to use common sense and do what I want.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
It really is just personal preference.

Personal preference is a part of it, but it not the *only* factor. You even said yourself that your parents vary the temp in their place depending on the humidity. Humidity IS a factor. And humidity varies depending on where you live, it is much more humid on the beach in Jamaica than it will ever be where I live. So, where you live factors in as well.


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I would probably ignore the 68 "rule" especially if YOU are paying for the heat. If landlord wants it at 68, he should pay for it.

I keep our house at 70 in winter (gas heat) and 68 at night and I am freezing my butt off (but we are used to HOT weather). Even at that, last year my pipes froze. I dont think the indoor heat has much to do with that so much as the outside?


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

Sounds like a fair request to me. 68 isn't very warm and you can go warmer, of course. Some people drop the temp. when they aren't home, at night, etc. and it is hard of the heating system.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

But to some of us, 68 is VERY warm.

I break out in hives at 70, 68 is dripping in sweat and a bright red face.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth* 
Sounds like a fair request to me. 68 isn't very warm and you can go warmer, of course. Some people drop the temp. when they aren't home, at night, etc. and it is hard of the heating system.

Its not hard on the heating system to drop the temp.

We had landlords who made a "No open windows" rule, but they paid for heating (and had international students as tenants who would crank the thermostat to 80 and then open all the windows to cool it down). But if you're paying for your own heat, the difference between keeping it at 68 and 50 for 8 hours can be 8% or more. Keeping it down for 24 hours can save a *lot* - 10-15% or more, depending on weather and how far down you turn it.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
But to some of us, 68 is VERY warm.

I break out in hives at 70, 68 is dripping in sweat and a bright red face.


Yet to me at 68 I'm in a heavy sweater, and bitching loudly about the cold.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Yet to me at 68 I'm in a heavy sweater, and bitching loudly about the cold.

im in long sleeves and my hands are cold, but im not FREEZING. i like our apt to sit around 70. any lower and ds gets blue hands.


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## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

Yes, it is hard of the heating system to drop the temp if people jack it up once they get home or feel cold. As opposed to keeping the temp about the same temp and layering your clothes as needed.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mary-Beth* 
Yes, it is hard of the heating system to drop the temp if people jack it up once they get home or feel cold. As opposed to keeping the temp about the same temp and layering your clothes as needed.

If you have a heat pump, _possibly_.

For all other heating systems, that's a _myth_. It *costs* more because it burns fuel, but it doesn't harm the heating system when the thermostat causes it to trip and come on.

Its also a myth that it costs more to heat from a lower temp after being turned down than it costs to keep the house at the higher temp the whole time.

There are plenty of credible websites, ranging from energy conservation agencies to power companies to engineering firms, that offer the numbers to confirm this.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yep our gas company agrees that it is better to turn the heat down too.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Thermostat setting has little to do with outside temp.
But setting it at 60F/15c is the same deal *inside* the house whether it is -40/-40 outside or much warmer.
It just means that inside the house the furnace will work to maintain 15C degrees - or as close to that as possible.
The outside temp is irrelevant, except that it determines how fast the house will cool and how often the furnace has to fire.


True.
And yes, humidity has a LOT to do with how hot it feels.

When I lived in Wisconsin, the humid summers were unbearable, with 1--% humidity.
The wind chill was terribly freezing because there are no mountains to slow the wind down in WI, but that only affects you if you are in the wind, i.e. outside, not inside your house.

It's not nearly as humid here as it was in WI, but it's not terribly dry, either.
I do have to run the humidifier in the bedroom in the winter, but haven't needed it this winter yet. This has been a weird winter, though, almost no snow at all, and right now it's 34 degrees (F). Very warm for winter in Alaska.

We live in a drafty mobile home, so the furnace kicks on frequently in order to maintain whatever temp I set it at. I usually have it around 68-70 when I'm awake, and down to 65 at night. My daughters are little furnaces in their sleep, and so am I.


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## melibee (Aug 20, 2007)

Maybe they are concerned with mold issues. If you have your heater up, that is generating a lot of dry heat, and the windows being open would allow the moisture in... I didn't look to see where you live, but I live in the Northwest and we have a lot of mold issues. Especially in the wetter months, we try to keep the air somewhat dry inside to avoid the mold marathon.

Just a thought....


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

I was just thinking of this thread today! We have -20C temps and strong gusty wind all day. All my heaters are set at 20C and I'm cold! Brrr!!! Normally we're snuggly warm but this chilly wind is finding it's way in somehow.







: Time to add extra quilts to windows and buy weatherstripping.


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
I have lived in New England, and now I live in Georgia. I have never been able to stand heat or high humidity. I am uncomfortably hot if the temperature is over 70, unless the humidity is low. I am most comfortable at 60-65, but my husband freezes at anything below 78.

Bless your poor heart (that is NOT sarcastic!). How in the WORLD do you manage Georgia summers? I've lived here my whole life and do fine with the heat/humidity. I don't know how ANYBODY survives the cold y'all are talking about in Canada.







:


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## MommyErin (Jul 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heathenmom* 
I don't know how ANYBODY survives the cold y'all are talking about in Canada.







:

Ain't that the truth! I'm cold when it's less than 80 degrees! I can't even fathom how the peeps up in CA and the UP and Maine and the like deal with winter. Now Miami, FL is my kind of place ...


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

And another one bites the dust.







Management must be really "nice". OUr current LL just quit. We keep getting notices in our mailbox about it. We're on our 4th (or 5th?) LL this year. Yikes! Can you see why it's impossible to get answers sometimes? That's why I've just decided to ignore them unless they're pounding on my door.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I think the reason why it feels so much colder inside when it's colder outside, despite the thermostat setting, is that few houses are evenly heated. The area next to the heater (where, stupidly enough, most thermostats are located) may be a comfy 68 degrees (or whatever), but farther away it's 66, or 64, or 62 and so on. When it's 66 degrees outside, the heater will kick on occasionally and no part of the house will be cooler than 66. When it's -20, the heater will kick on frequently and the drafty spots in the house will be far colder.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
We live in a largish apartment building with about 32 apartments. A notice was just put up saying that during the winter months we *have* to keep our windows closed and all our heaters at MIN 20C. (I guess that's 68F).

For some reason this just bothers me. What if I'm hot? What if I want fresh air? DH smokes







: so sometimes I open our balcony door to air out. Also, I never have the heater on in our bedroom because 1) our bed is in front of it and 2) it dries the air so it's hard on the throat when sleeping. We have electric heaters.

What's the deal with this? Can you think of any possible explanation? I'd just ask the LL but they're impossible to reach. It's the first time it was ever mentioned and this is my 5th winter here.







:

My grandmother is a landlord/owner of a small apartment building in Ontario with electric baseboard heaters ( although she pays the hydro). The reason your building managment has to make these request is because of my highlighted part above. With the baseboard heaters it gets very cold easily in between the walls and the floors where the water pipes run. If there is a pipe burst and the heat is very low/off around that area the insurance company will NOT cover the damage. That is why the minimum. Even though it may be 20 in your apartment it is not in between the floors! We have had 2 pipes burst in the last 2 years and believe me it is not fun. It is usually the hot water pipes that burst because of the drastic temp difference off and on. When one of them bursts the entire area is filled with hot water and steam covering everything not to mention the bill for all of that hot water lost. ALl of this has happened in my grandmas appartment twice now and that is with her keeping the heat on. For goodness sakes please just listen to them and keep the thermostat up.
I am also not sure but if they have given you notice to keep the temp up and you have it off I would imagine if something happened the insurance company might be able to come after you ( I am not sure)
HTH


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

Our thermostat is set to 63. It wavers between 62-64. I am a person who is always







: , however I wanted to give it a try. Much to my surprise I am warmer at this temp with a sweater and slippers on (and getting up to move about) then I was when the heat was at 70+ . Going outside is not such a shock to the system anymore (still feel colder out there though)and we have not gotten sick with the last 3 orounds of germs that have gone through our circle of family and friends.

I turned the heat up for christmas







but now we will probably get sick


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## Glover_Girls (Mar 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
That's why I've just decided to ignore them unless they're pounding on my door.









Well, considering the rule was from the now departed LL, I would ignore it.

I also have electric heat and live in an apartment building with 3 sections (3 floors) that total 18 units. Since each room has a t-stat, I can easily control which room is heated. It's off in the kitchen and second br (my dd doesn't sleep in there). I keep it low in the lr and br when we're not home. So when it is cold out, I don't feel too guilty about turning it up a bit when we're in the lr hanging out. I do keep the br cool as I don't like to sleep in real hot temps.

As far as the dry air, I use a humidifier. Also, check out www.vermontcountrystore.com. They sell trough-like things that hang on baseboard heaters. You fill them with water and they use the heat of the heater to distribute moisture into the air. Really cool! When the humidity of the room is higher, you can keep the temp lower in the room because moist air holds heat better than dry air.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2two babes* 
My grandmother is a landlord/owner of a small apartment building in Ontario with electric baseboard heaters ( although she pays the hydro). The reason your building managment has to make these request is because of my highlighted part above. With the baseboard heaters it gets very cold easily in between the walls and the floors where the water pipes run. If there is a pipe burst and the heat is very low/off around that area the insurance company will NOT cover the damage. That is why the minimum. Even though it may be 20 in your apartment it is not in between the floors! We have had 2 pipes burst in the last 2 years and believe me it is not fun. It is usually the hot water pipes that burst because of the drastic temp difference off and on. When one of them bursts the entire area is filled with hot water and steam covering everything not to mention the bill for all of that hot water lost. ALl of this has happened in my grandmas appartment twice now and that is with her keeping the heat on. For goodness sakes please just listen to them and keep the thermostat up.
I am also not sure but if they have given you notice to keep the temp up and you have it off I would imagine if something happened the insurance company might be able to come after you ( I am not sure)
HTH


Just because the heater is off in the bedroom, doesn't mean the temp is -20 in there. When I turn the heater on, it clicks on around 16-18. And I'm sure your grandmother is a very nice woman, but the people who own this building (and a couple hundred others between here and Montreal) are a bunch of money grubbing *insert ugly swears here*. It is bad enough having to live in a building where nobody cares about you or listens to you, I'm not going to make myself EVEN MORE uncomfortable just to make them happy. There's a reason we've had 4-5 LL's in the past YEAR. The owners are horrible people.

I can not wait for the day I leave this building.

PS, thanks for all the helpful comments, but I am so over this topic.

ETA: your granny should look into insulating her building better.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I think your reply was a little snippy. She was merely pointing out the legal and insurance reasons the LL has to issue this message and also the legal and monetary ramifications it could cost you if you don't follow it. But if you dont mind a pipe or two bursrting, ruining your belongings and you being footed with the repair bill, go right ahead and lower your heat.


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## ***Heather*** (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wonderwahine* 
I think your reply was a little snippy. She was merely pointing out the legal and insurance reasons the LL has to issue this message and also the legal and monetary ramifications it could cost you if you don't follow it. But if you dont mind a pipe or two bursrting, ruining your belongings and you being footed with the repair bill, go right ahead and lower your heat.

Now who's being snippy?

Yes I was snippy and on Christmas Day too!









To Mommy2twobabes: I'm sorry I was snippy. But I was being serious, if your Grandmothers' building is STILL having problems with pipes bursting EVEN WITH the temperature at 20C, she should really see about insulating her floors or pipes. I'm no specialist, but it seems like the problem runs deeper. Normal buildings don't have problems with pipes bursting when the home is at a comfortable temperature.

I don't know, this thread exhausts me and I'm tired of being told to think about the poor owners of the building.

You know, those people who:
Took 5 weeks and repeated calls to fix the tub faucet when the hot water handle literally FELL OFF and I had to have cold showers or pour hot water from the sink into the tub.

Who took the lazy way out of fixing a leak in our roof so that it leaked THREE times dripping through my smoke alarm (hooked up electrically) causing it to beep forever till we found the breaker. And stained our bathroom ceiling (still not painted) It happened 3 years ago and they still haven't properly patched the hole they cut in the ceiling.

We have other misc holes in the wall that they never bothered to fix but they promised to get right on it when we signed the lease.

They still haven't changed our lock on our front door even though our keys keep getting stuck in it. When we mentioned it to the last LL, she said yeah! I'll get right on it! That happened to someone else and their key broke right off in there! (It's our only door to access our apartment.)

The list goes on and on... do you need more examples of why I don't care about them? If you want your tenants to treat you and your building with respect, try treating them with respect.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

how about thinking of your own pocketbook if a pipe bursts, can you afford to have to pay to fix it and replace your own damaged belonings?


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Actually, I live where the OP lives. I am very familiar with landlord tenant laws here and they cannot legally ask those things of their tenants.

I would be sweltering at that temperature. I also open the windows occasionally for fresh air. People have a legal right to be comfortable in their home, at least where we live.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
Actually, I live where the OP lives. I am very familiar with landlord tenant laws here and they cannot legally ask those things of their tenants.

I would be sweltering at that temperature. I also open the windows occasionally for fresh air. People have a legal right to be comfortable in their home, at least where we live.

Plus, if the OP has a lease, the heat "mandate" would not be enforceable unless it's in the lease that she signed. Just like the OP can't change her rent amount just because she feels like it, the LL can't change the lease terms in the middle of the lease term. In the absence of a clause discussing this issue in her lease, her provincial and/or city laws would come into play. And I doubt there are any laws restricting window opening!


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkin* 
But to some of us, 68 is VERY warm.

I break out in hives at 70, 68 is dripping in sweat and a bright red face.

I am chuckling at this conversation---you break out at 70 because you are to hot. I break out at 68 because I am too cold.














Being heat sensitive sucks!! Either direction you go.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
Just because the heater is off in the bedroom, doesn't mean the temp is -20 in there. When I turn the heater on, it clicks on around 16-18. And I'm sure your grandmother is a very nice woman, but the people who own this building (and a couple hundred others between here and Montreal) are a bunch of money grubbing *insert ugly swears here*. It is bad enough having to live in a building where nobody cares about you or listens to you, I'm not going to make myself EVEN MORE uncomfortable just to make them happy. There's a reason we've had 4-5 LL's in the past YEAR. The owners are horrible people.

I can not wait for the day I leave this building.

PS, thanks for all the helpful comments, but I am so over this topic.

ETA: your granny should look into insulating her building better.

We have looked into insulating better but the people who built the building made that pretty well impossible








I know that it is not -20 in the bedroom but between the floor boards ( ie your celling and the person above your apartments floor) it can get really cold. Base board heaters don't spread the heat well. I wasn't saying it just out of concern for you land lord ( I know some of then can be really aweful and deserve whatever tey get) but your possesions and apartment as well as your neighbours. It is a really aweful thing to go through in the winter when a pipe bursts and you have steam and scalding hot water shooting through your celling.


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by ****Heather**** 
Now who's being snippy?

Yes I was snippy and on Christmas Day too!









To Mommy2twobabes: I'm sorry I was snippy. But I was being serious, if your Grandmothers' building is STILL having problems with pipes bursting EVEN WITH the temperature at 20C, she should really see about insulating her floors or pipes. I'm no specialist, but it seems like the problem runs deeper. Normal buildings don't have problems with pipes bursting when the home is at a comfortable temperature.

I don't know, this thread exhausts me and I'm tired of being told to think about the poor owners of the building.

You know, those people who:
Took 5 weeks and repeated calls to fix the tub faucet when the hot water handle literally FELL OFF and I had to have cold showers or pour hot water from the sink into the tub.

Who took the lazy way out of fixing a leak in our roof so that it leaked THREE times dripping through my smoke alarm (hooked up electrically) causing it to beep forever till we found the breaker. And stained our bathroom ceiling (still not painted) It happened 3 years ago and they still haven't properly patched the hole they cut in the ceiling.

We have other misc holes in the wall that they never bothered to fix but they promised to get right on it when we signed the lease.

They still haven't changed our lock on our front door even though our keys keep getting stuck in it. When we mentioned it to the last LL, she said yeah! I'll get right on it! That happened to someone else and their key broke right off in there! (It's our only door to access our apartment.)

The list goes on and on... do you need more examples of why I don't care about them? If you want your tenants to treat you and your building with respect, try treating them with respect.









I should have explained that the pipe burst happened because it runs near an outside wall and the radiant heat from the other rooms of the apartment ( it is in a hall with no heater) surrounding it was not enough to keep it from freezing. We have insulated the pipe as this has happened twice now.
I was just trying to say not to turn off the heaters altogether and to even keep them on lowso you are not liable.
hth


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